From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Feb 1 00:31:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:20 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <200302010534.h115Y3J13333@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <029d01c2c9ba$d7896140$0400fea9@game> I find those older scsi HD's never die (unlike the newer ones). I wanted to try programming on the original hardware since I have the monitor for the 500. I dont need any of the newer os's just to play around with and I think OS 4 and the hardware platform will be stillborn anyway. Emulation is ok if you dont have the real thing to mess around with. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 12:34 AM Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > Is there a SCSI adapter for the A500, and how hard would it be to get? The > HD expansions I've always seen don't strike me as being very reliable in > this day and age. > > If you want to do programming, I'd recommend getting a newer Amiga, or doing > it under Emulation. I've had Amiga OS 3.9 running on both my A3000/25 and > on my PC, I hate to admit it, but unless you're running something that > requires the HW, emulating the Amiga on a modern system blows the real HW > away. I couldn't believe the difference. Of course I've got to admit, that > you really should have an accelerator board, if you're going to try and run > AmigaOS 3.9. > > Now what I'd like to get a chance to play with is Amiga OS 4.0 on the new > hardware! I gather the OS will finally be released in March. > > Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Feb 1 05:28:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Expect to see fewer hard drives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030201022955.00a4fb30@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >Over two years, Simson Garfinkel and Abhi Shelat bought 158 used hard drives >at secondhand computer stores and on eBay. Of the 129 drives that >functioned, 69 still had recoverable files on them and 49 contained >"significant personal information" - medical correspondence, love letters, >pornography and 5,000 credit card numbers. One even had a year's worth of >transactions with account numbers from a cash machine in Illinois. " First old PC I ever bought was from I think PCmall, they had just moved to a new building and gave all their people new computers, and sold the old one from a couple pallets in the outlet store. The sign said no hard drives and no memory, but the guy at the counter said that "some" might still have them. The one I bought had a couple years of client and vendor billing data. I have SE/30 from a county psych center complete with all the ready to print forms and a bunch of patient histories. Many small scrappers promise whatever and then sell to whoever has the top dollar. Or worse they are honest and won't sell to me. ;( Wow do I hate walking into ta place and seeing tasty hard drives etc. getting drilled etc. I don't see it as getting to be a real serious problem for us though, since its pretty costly to scrap old computers "by the book". Much easier to tell Joe in the warehouse to get rid of the old stuff, and he calls some scrapper who slips him a few bucks and huals everything away on the spot. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Feb 1 07:24:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Cool external FD by Nintendo In-Reply-To: References: <012801c2c990$f71e31e0$420add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030201082506.0f07b90a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Keys wrote: > >> Today at the thrift I found a red case/black face/yellow button external 3.5 >> FD by Nintendo model HVC-022. Most of the writing on it is in Japanese. It >> was missing the ac adapter and cable. Copyright date on it is 1985. Anyone >> else have one of these? > It sounds like it might be the disk drive that was offered for the Japanese version of the Nintendo Famicom computer. I THINK I remember reading that they were briefly offered here in the US. Go back to the trift store and DIG through the other boxs for the cables. They're almost certaqinly there. Trift stores are notorious for taking things apart and "sorting" all the pieces into separate piles in different locations. I've seen times when it took well over a year to get all the various parts of the same system out onto the shelves. Joe From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Feb 1 07:37:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. References: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> <3243.4.20.168.110.1043717141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E3BCDCC.60803@tiac.net> I would think the CPU would have to use totally different drivers. Talking to the 12821A interface is TOTALLY different than talking to the 13037 interface board from the I/O backplane perspective. The 'H' series drives also use a totally different boot rom than MAC (13037) disks. I have also heard that you cannot mix ICD (H-series) drives on the same bus as CS/80 disks as well, but this is more of a rumor than a fact, it may be that HP did not support this with their drivers but it may be electrically possible. Eric Smith wrote: >Jay wrote: > >>Example: I have a 13037 pca card, going to a 13037 disc controller >>subsystem, which has both 7905 ICD drives on it, a 7906D, AND a 7906H. >> > >Can the computer distinguish a 7906H attached to the 13037 box via HPIB >from an 7906D attached to the 13037 box by the "traditional" interface? >I'd like to think that because the 13037 box is an "intelligent" controller, >they should look the same to the host. > >This would be convenient for me, since it should be fairly easy to >write a program for a PC with an HPIB card to emulate a 7906H. If >anyone has any 7906H technical documentation, that is. I suppose the >7906H predates the Amigo, CS/80, and SS/80 specs, and probably had >some earlier and less sophisticated command set. From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Feb 1 07:42:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: PDP-8: anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? References: <3444.4.20.168.110.1043723295.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E3BCF09.1020801@tiac.net> I beleive that Al got a few (one or two?) Augat wire-wrap quad DEC modules along with the CADR hardware. There was at least one quad unibus Chaos net interface board. This board may be slightly interesting historically, but its unstuffed and I don't beleive that any drivers existed for it. To the best of my knowledge, it was an abandoned incomplete hack. You might want to unwrap the board, then use it for a PDP-8 project. I'd guess that using the Dallas NVRAM (really excellent products by the way) to emulate a PDP-8 disk would be much simpler than my IDE hack. A simple 20 Mhz PIC would probably be more than sufficient. But I have no idea of what an omnibus interface looks like electrically. Is this a painful thing to build? Eric Smith wrote: >Will J wrote: > >>Omnibus or Posibus? Why not Negibus? Neither Omnibus nor Posibus would >>help me on my 8/i, since mine is Negibus... >> > >One problem with building either posibus or negibus devices is that >DEC connector blocks seem to be made of unobtanium these days. At >one time there were some made by other vendors, which were generally >inferior to the DEC ones, but it doesn't appear that any are available >now. > >Building an Omnibus card doesn't require any DEC connector blocks, >making it somewhat easier. > >It would be nice to find a source of the DEC plastic module handles, >and the metal stiffener/ejector handles used on DEC hex-height modules. >But I'm not holding my breath for those, either. From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Feb 1 08:28:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? References: Message-ID: <3E3BD9B6.5070507@tiac.net> Emulate the tape reader. Vintage paper tapes are usually made from quite low quality paper and degrade with use. Mylar tapes are much better, but can still be dammaged (if you try). So unless you also have a punch to dumplicate your tapes, then its really much better to transfer the tapes into some modern digital format. If your PDP-8 has a tape reader interface, its usually trival to build a paper tape reader emulator and connect it to your machine. Will Jennings wrote: > I think Ethan's points are excellent; in fact, the main reason I had > suggest an SSD in the first place was because the real drives used > with the 8/i were not very large (by modern standards). I'd like to > add that a major reason for my desire for such a beast is the fact > that I have absolutely no peripherals for my 8/i, nor do I have the > required boards to control them if I did have them. Heck, I don't even > currently have a complete machine, but I'm working on it. I'll > hopefully soon have a list of needed boards I can post to the list... > Anyone have any REAL manuals for the thing that they'd part with? Or a > paper tape reader? Please? *begs* > > Will J From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Feb 1 08:32:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: HP2100 References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030130214203.028bc2c0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3E3BDAB7.6030802@tiac.net> Jay West really needs one of these! Geoff Reed wrote: > Nope, I'm in the seattle, Washington area > > > At 09:20 PM 1/30/03 -0800, you wrote: > >> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: >> >> > Is a HP 2100 worth rescuing ? and if I were to rescue it is there >> anyone >> > who be interested in it (I'm out of room) >> >> Absolutely. >> >> Absolutely. >> >> But aren't you "down under"? >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >> Festival >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >> http://www.vintage.org >> >> * Old computing resources for business and academia at >> www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Feb 1 08:36:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: HP 5423A analyzer References: <00bc01c2bdab$3efcb000$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <8fgm3vg8sn2golulhg4j59b53ld1687kcl@4ax.com> Message-ID: <3E3BDBC0.40803@tiac.net> Its quite easy to 'unmodify' the customized 21MX and turn it back into a normal E-series. I've done this modification several times, contact me off-list if you want the details. Philip Freidin wrote: >On Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:04:31 -0600, you wrote: > >>I just receive an HP 5423A Structural Dynamics Analyzer. I have no interest >>in it, but being curious, what the heck is it used for?? From googling I get >>the impression it does fourier modal testing? >> >>Jay "Idly curious" West >> > >This is the same as the system that I offered you about 2 years ago >that you had little interest in. I found some one else to give it to. > >It does FFT and other signal processing functions. Inside is an >embedded 21MX but with the front pannel replaced with the custom >panel for the 5423A. 64KB semiconductor memory, microcode >extensions, and sw loaded from cartridge tape. The system should >comprise 3 boxes, the control box (with 21MX inside), a display box >with 2 cartridge tape drives, and an A/D box for data acquisition. > >Have fun, > >Philip Freidin > > > > >================= >Philip Freidin >philip@fliptronics.com From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Feb 1 08:38:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? References: <20030131155147.37392.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> <3E3B507B.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3E3BDC37.2050401@tiac.net> Use whatever your comfortable with using. I reccomend against emulating disk with flash. Flash is ideal for emulating a paper tape reader / punch, but the write performance is low for disk, and the write endurance issues get scarey too. ben franchuk wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> If I were more comfortable with FPGA/CPLD design, I would probably go >> that route. My expertise is more in microprocessors; I was >> contemplating >> throwing an MC68000 on the other end of the bus since I have extensive >> stocks (dozens of tubes), a large assortment of hardware debugging tools >> (code trace analyzers, a Flike 9010A, etc.) and lots of expertise > > > So what is wrong with a 8 bit cpu since a 68000 is overkill. > BGmicro has surplus 512k x 8 flash $1.00 each if need cheap > memory but they have real HD's for $21.50 each. Now my question > is" are you designing a new interface or emulating a old one". > Ben. > Personaly I have hard time dealing with a CPU on a i/o card > that is more powerfull than the PDP. From allain at panix.com Sat Feb 1 08:46:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <20030131155147.37392.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> <3E3B507B.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> <3E3BDC37.2050401@tiac.net> Message-ID: <000701c2ca00$3d3fd740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Alright all you tech heads, dust off your grade school prayers and say a few for the Shuttle astronauts. No time like the present to show some respect. John A. news: Columbia lost 16min before landing at ~40+mi. altitude From dholland at woh.rr.com Sat Feb 1 09:05:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <000701c2ca00$3d3fd740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <20030131155147.37392.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> <3E3B507B.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> <3E3BDC37.2050401@tiac.net> <000701c2ca00$3d3fd740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1044112500.14560.2.camel@crusader> Found on the Sun rescue list.. http://www.space.com/shuttlemissions/ A little more data, but not much.. On Sat, 2003-02-01 at 09:43, John Allain wrote: > Alright all you tech heads, dust off your grade school prayers > and say a few for the Shuttle astronauts. No time like the > present to show some respect. > > John A. > news: Columbia lost 16min before landing at ~40+mi. altitude From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Feb 1 09:33:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <20030131155147.37392.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> <3E3B507B.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> <3E3BDC37.2050401@tiac.net> <000701c2ca00$3d3fd740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1044112500.14560.2.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <003101c2ca07$0ec26d40$0100000a@milkyway> David Holland wrote: > Found on the Sun rescue list.. > > http://www.space.com/shuttlemissions/ > > A little more data, but not much.. OK, for you Brits with SkyDigital, Sky News are covering the story live. For the American readers of this list, FOX News are covering the story. Info on www.sky.com/news and www.foxnews.com. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Feb 1 10:15:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? Message-ID: <20030201161217.10510.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> > I play games on mine mostly, but want to get a HD to do some programming on > the system. Flipping floppies is starting to get annoying. there are a few schematics for Amiga hard disk controllers floating around the 'net, of varying degrees of complexity - I'll see if I've still got any bookmarked. I seem to remember that the most promising one was all in Russian though. I went overseas before I could try wiring anything up unfortunately, but maybe I'll get back on the case someday... cheers Jules Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Feb 1 10:42:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: DEC VAX/VXT2000 and monitors Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0B@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi all, Trying to clean up the "inbound" queue of systems-to-check-and-fix, and here's a few boxes I cant seem to figure out. Heeeelp ! ;-) Basically, the monitor madness I guess. I have: - various VAXstation 3100-family systems with mono, GPX and SPX cards - various VXT2000 boxes with their SPX card - a VXT2000+ box with "SPX PLUS" card and, two monitors (only.. gave the rest away long time ago.), a VR19-D3 (seems to be a generic GDM1960 - it also has the HI-LO switch on the back) and a VRT320. The VRT320 is the one that actually seems to work on all the GPX cards, and on the SPX cards in the VXT2000's. It does NOT sync with the SPX cards in the -M38 and -M76's, and neither for the SPX PLUS card in the VXT2000+. Obviously, I would want the -M38 and -M76's SPX cards to be used, and the SPX PLUS in the VXT2000+. No specs on the latter can be found, though, although I did notice that there is a 74.3MHz xtal on it, rather than the 69.9 one on the regular card, so it might be doing the 1280x1024@74 rather than @70. Does anyone have info on this? Cheers, Fred From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Feb 1 10:42:22 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Any New Zealand DEC heads on the list? Message-ID: I've a friend there looking to get his hands on a VAX. -brian. From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Feb 1 11:40:01 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: DEC VAX/VXT2000 and monitors In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0B@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Hi all, > > Trying to clean up the "inbound" queue of systems-to-check-and-fix, and here's a few boxes I > cant seem to figure out. Heeeelp ! ;-) > > Basically, the monitor madness I guess. > > I have: > > - various VAXstation 3100-family systems with mono, GPX and SPX cards > - various VXT2000 boxes with their SPX card > - a VXT2000+ box with "SPX PLUS" card > > and, two monitors (only.. gave the rest away long time ago.), a VR19-D3 (seems to be a > generic GDM1960 - it also has the HI-LO switch on the back) and a VRT320. > > The VRT320 is the one that actually seems to work on all the GPX cards, and on the SPX > cards in the VXT2000's. It does NOT sync with the SPX cards in the -M38 and -M76's, and > neither for the SPX PLUS card in the VXT2000+. > > Obviously, I would want the -M38 and -M76's SPX cards to be used, and the > SPX PLUS in the VXT2000+. No specs on the latter can be found, though, > although I did notice that there is a 74.3MHz xtal on it, rather than the > 69.9 one on the regular card, so it might be doing the 1280x1024@74 rather > than @70. > > Does anyone have info on this? > > Cheers, > Fred > 69 MHz pixel clock is for GPX resolution and refresh rate (1024x 864 x 60 Hz refresh) 74 is only a little faster not sure what monitor that works with SPX normally does 1024x1280 at 66 Hz (VR19 lo range ) uses a ~119 MHz pixel clock The SPX cards can be switched from GPX (1024x864 60 Hz refresh) to SPX resolutions (1280x1024 66 Hz refresh) see: http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html Its funny that your VRT320 works with GPX because I have a few of those and they work and the SPX rates only... The VR19 should work with the SPX cards if they are set in SPX mode... Peter Wallace From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Feb 1 11:48:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? References: <20030131155147.37392.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> <3E3B507B.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> <3E3BDC37.2050401@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3E3C0739.1080504@jetnet.ab.ca> Bob Shannon wrote: > > I reccomend against emulating disk with flash. Flash is ideal for > emulating a paper tape > reader / punch, but the write performance is low for disk, and the write > endurance issues get > scarey too. I keep forgeting about the last feature. However getting back to the original question about the PDP without I/O, a console I/O is mandatory for use of a PDP-8.Not having a 8 I can't tell however if the standard serial I/O had a option for RS232 output. Here with the proper software a old PC would be handy to emulate a TTY. Ben. From mranalog at attbi.com Sat Feb 1 12:29:01 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives Message-ID: <3E3C09F0.A186FDDE@attbi.com> Ethan wrote: > If I were more comfortable with FPGA/CPLD design, I would probably go > that route. My expertise is more in microprocessors; I was contemplating > throwing an MC68000 on the other end of the bus.......................... > I was thinking of recycling the COMBOARD design - 1/4 of the memory > map is "shared memory" - there is a circuit between the 68000 and > the host bus that initiates DMA cycles when the 68000 reads/writes > to it. I have used a COMBOARD to test the RAM in a PDP-11/03 via > this shared memory interface. I got a 4 Mpixel camera for Christmas that came with a 16 Mbyte Compact Flash Card. After Christmas I picked up a 64 Mbyte CFC to use with the camera just so I would have the storage for about 50 pictures instead of just 12. I also picked up a Dazzle USB Compact Flash Card Reader/Writer for $20 for my sneaker net needs. So now when I'm around computers I carry the CFC reader and the CD with the USB drivers and I basically have a removable hard drive that I can carry in my pocket. So now I'm thinking about how hard it would be to create a cartridge for say - the C64 that has a USB port and an EPROM on it. The EPROM would have routines that wedge into the Kernal disk routines on boot. (And of course they would bypassing the serial routines) Plus routines to translate disk commands to read and write files. Imagine a hot swapable 512 MB hard drive on the C64 with an access time of RAM. Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Feb 1 14:03:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: test -- ignore Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030201150640.0f1f15ac@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> test From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Feb 1 14:05:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030201030614.01115424@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Dr. Ido wrote: > Along those lines there was "Sex Cartoons" for the Commodore 64, a series > black and white cartoons that looped. One high school I attended had a > room full of Commodore 64s running from a shared 1541 via some peripheral > sharing unit. At the start of class everyone would do LOAD"*",8,1 to boot > from whatever disk was in the drive. One day I replaced the typing tutor > disk with a copy of "Sex Cartoons". At 13 years of age seeing that running > on a room full of Commodore 64s was worth the week of detention I got for > it. Thereby forever branding yourself as an "Evil Hacker" Doc From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Feb 1 14:23:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Fw: AS400 surplus Message-ID: <009901c2ca2f$8e0633c0$7d00a8c0@george> Found on spamnet news, no relation, yadda yadda yadda... Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "peter" Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.as400.misc Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: AS400 surplus > Hi, > > At this moment I have a AS400/9404 model F25 and I am going to take it to > the junk yard. > If anyone is interested? It is here for you to pick it up. > > Machine is dated 940909. > It has (dutch) V3R1 with PDM, RPG compiler and TCP/IP. > It is possible to install the english version if you have the tapes. > 32Mb internal memory, 1.9Gb disk. > Ethernet (2617). Twinax and V24. > QIC1000 tape unit. UPS, key for keylock and LIC-tape. > I am not selling, just giving away. I hope that is not illegal. > > Mail me at prymxxx@prymxxx.nl (remove all the x's) > (I am in the Netherlands, 10 minutes drive from Amsterdam) > > Peter From msspcva at yahoo.com Sat Feb 1 14:41:00 2003 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <003101c2ca07$0ec26d40$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <20030201203826.58916.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> Somewhat speculative info: I heard on ABC news this afternoon that there had been some external fuel tank insulation knocked off during launch of the Columbia, and it had impacted the wing surface or some such on I think the left side. Then there's a report of a temperature variation in the same wing during the early reentry period. The news report said that since the mission didn't have the mech arm they couldn't inspect the wing during the mission, but used instead video footage of the launch to determine that there wasn't any damage. Perhaps, unfortunately, it was worse after the vibrations of launch? -- Frank --- Philip Pemberton wrote: > David Holland wrote: > > Found on the Sun rescue list.. > > > > http://www.space.com/shuttlemissions/ > > > > A little more data, but not much.. > OK, for you Brits with SkyDigital, Sky News are > covering the story live. For > the American readers of this list, FOX News are > covering the story. > Info on www.sky.com/news and www.foxnews.com. > > Later. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ From Technoid at 30below.com Sat Feb 1 15:05:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Expect to see fewer hard drives. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030201022955.00a4fb30@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <000001c2ca35$547b2830$6401a8c0@benchbox> I bought a Sun Sparcstation 4/330 a few years ago. It's hdd was intact and after breaking the password file (I used a program called 'John the Ripper' on it), turns out it was an ex-Nasa machine used to model rockets. Neato find, but dumb of Nasa to let it out without blanking the drive or even making an attempt to blank it. Turns out it's original home was the Marshal Space Flight Center. I really thought that was NEAT. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 5:43 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org; cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Expect to see fewer hard drives. >Over two years, Simson Garfinkel and Abhi Shelat bought 158 used hard drives >at secondhand computer stores and on eBay. Of the 129 drives that >functioned, 69 still had recoverable files on them and 49 contained >"significant personal information" - medical correspondence, love letters, >pornography and 5,000 credit card numbers. One even had a year's worth of >transactions with account numbers from a cash machine in Illinois. " First old PC I ever bought was from I think PCmall, they had just moved to a new building and gave all their people new computers, and sold the old one from a couple pallets in the outlet store. The sign said no hard drives and no memory, but the guy at the counter said that "some" might still have them. The one I bought had a couple years of client and vendor billing data. I have SE/30 from a county psych center complete with all the ready to print forms and a bunch of patient histories. Many small scrappers promise whatever and then sell to whoever has the top dollar. Or worse they are honest and won't sell to me. ;( Wow do I hate walking into ta place and seeing tasty hard drives etc. getting drilled etc. I don't see it as getting to be a real serious problem for us though, since its pretty costly to scrap old computers "by the book". Much easier to tell Joe in the warehouse to get rid of the old stuff, and he calls some scrapper who slips him a few bucks and huals everything away on the spot. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 1 15:17:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. In-Reply-To: <3E3BCDCC.60803@tiac.net> References: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> <3243.4.20.168.110.1043717141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3BCDCC.60803@tiac.net> Message-ID: <32994.63.224.195.20.1044134081.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Bob Shannon wrote: > I would think the CPU would have to use totally different drivers. > > Talking to the 12821A interface is TOTALLY different than talking to the > 13037 interface board from > the I/O backplane perspective. I know that. I was asking whether they'd look the same to the computer if they were both plugged onto a 13037. I suspect the answer is yes, because all drives plugged onto a 13037 probably look to the host like MAC drives even if the 13037-to-drive interface is actually HPIB. Part of the point of the 13037 MAC controller was to provide some measure of device- independence. From Technoid at 30below.com Sat Feb 1 15:18:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info In-Reply-To: <3E3B567B.1050801@allwest.net> Message-ID: <000101c2ca37$2c126410$6401a8c0@benchbox> Are you Sure it is an Aviion? I'd love for it to be an MV/4000. It seems I'm like the only person on earth who has his own DG/MV machine. Mine runs AOS/VS II and is the size of a dormitory room refrigerator. Most of them were much larger but I got the pint-sized one which is a good thing. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Martin Marshall Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 12:09 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: aviion 4000 info pmulry wrote: > I recently aquired a Data General 4000 series server . It appears to be > complete (except for keyboard ,mouse and manuals as usual) ;however, before i > give it juice would like to confirm its condition. > Can anyone help me with manuals or point me towards downloadable manuals (any > thing that would be useful). Internet search returned very little info. http://www-csc.dg.com/csc/ Martin Marshall From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Feb 1 15:22:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Expect to see fewer hard drives. Message-ID: <0302012118.AA22821@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > I bought a Sun Sparcstation 4/330 a few years ago. It's hdd was intact > and after breaking the password file [...] Why did you need to do that? Why couldn't you just boot single-user from the ROM and get a root shell? MS From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sat Feb 1 15:33:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Dead. (Was: GRiDCase 3: Help!) Message-ID: <20030201213002.D53F622948@www.fastmail.fm> Well, it seems that I have some bad news to pass on to the group. The GRiDCase 3 I just recently bought has bit the dust. Thanks for everyone's help, but it looks like it just wasn't meant to be. Sad to say, I'll have to confine this machine to he trashpile. -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Feb 1 16:37:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <20030201203826.58916.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> References: <003101c2ca07$0ec26d40$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> At 20:38 01/02/2003, you wrote: >Somewhat speculative info: > >I heard on ABC news this afternoon that there had been >some external fuel tank insulation knocked off during >launch of the Columbia, and it had impacted the wing >surface or some such on I think the left side. Then >there's a report of a temperature variation in the >same wing during the early reentry period. Although that sounds somewhat implausible (how would ABC know, when no-one else does?), I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was the case. Incidentally, does anyone know if Columbia had been updated to the latest flight s/w & h/w? I know there was work on-going to do this, but I've no knowledge of what stage they'd got to. >The news report said that since the mission didn't >have the mech arm they couldn't inspect the wing >during the mission, but used instead video footage of >the launch to determine that there wasn't any damage. > >Perhaps, unfortunately, it was worse after the >vibrations of launch? It seems to me that maybe a little complacency might have set in. Maybe they've landed slightly damaged orbiters before, with no ill effects. Certainly the post-Challenger analysis was that safety procedures were less rigorous than they ought to have been. There've been nearly a hundred flights since then (or is it slightly more, I forget), maybe - just maybe - someone made a wrong call based on the fact "it's always worked before". The trouble is, even if they'd aborted the landing (before the Shuttle left ISS presumably), what then? I do feel for the astronaut's families, and in almost equal measure for the future of humanity in space. We have *got* to find a better way of getting in and out of the gravity well. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 1 17:05:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > >I heard on ABC news this afternoon that there had been > >some external fuel tank insulation knocked off during > >launch of the Columbia, and it had impacted the wing > Although that sounds somewhat implausible (how would ABC know, when no-one > else does?), I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was the case. There was a fair amount of NASA mention of it this morning. > Incidentally, does anyone know if Columbia had been updated to the latest > flight s/w & h/w? I know there was work on-going to do this, but I've no > knowledge of what stage they'd got to. Would a newer version of Windoze have reduced the chances of blue-screening? From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Feb 1 17:15:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: DEC still strong in government / academia Message-ID: <0302012311.AA22899@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Just got my UC Irvine student applicant 2003-04 financial aid paperwork. The picture in the booklet of a student getting his education shows a little Asian- looking guy in front of... a DEC workstation!!! The keyboard has an unmistakable, so dear and familiar to me LK201 or successor layout, the screen with some graphics (of unidentifiable nature) has the authentic look of a DEC monitor (even the d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo can be made out), and DEC-looking boxes (I guess external CD-ROM drives) can be seen in the back. The whole thing displays perfect harmony in DEC colors. (Can't tell, though, whether the workstation is a VAX, MIPS, or Alpha, except that I can see it sitting under the monitor.) When I was registering my company in the San Diego County Clerk's office in June of last year (that's the same place where couples tie the knot on this side of the pond) I was similarly delighted to see all the clerks typing on DEC terminals, with DECconnect cables running around the office. And a few years ago when I was still watching TV (happily living without a TV for 2.5 years now) there was a program asking people to donate blood. They showed footage of the process and my eyes were immediately caught by a VT220. But unfortunately most libraries, a former stronghold of VMS-based catalog servers and public DEC VT terminals, have now been lost to pee-sea-fication. MS From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Feb 1 17:22:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> Message-ID: <033d01c2ca48$508e8a10$020010ac@k4jcw> Based on the press briefing: What hit the tiles appeared to be only insulation. The tiles are brittle, but a chunk of insulation shouldn't have damaged them. Based purely on sensors failure sequences the failure APPEARED to progress from the trailing edge of the left wing, forward. However, this could be explained by alternate damage to the wiring harnesses. So APPEARED is highly stressed. There has been more substantial tile damage in the past that has not created this problem on reentry. The failure did occur during the highest heating point in the landing cycle. Crew did not report a loss of control, nor any vehicle originated sensor anomalies (ground reported the failures back to the shuttle, who was in the process of acknowledging when contact was lost). NASA stresses that while it's easy to make the insulation hit look like the smoking gun, rarely in a system as complex as the shuttle is something so cut and dried. There is no mechanism for inspecting the bottom side of the shuttle, nor ANY method for inflight repairs. When they lost the drogue chute door a few missions ago, they said that "remote observation" yielded no clues. Very vague, but I presume they had the SRO turn a bird on the shuttles rear. However, the lighting was unlikely to be ideal, and camera angle may have played a part. As a result of the lack of success with remote observation last time, they elected not to do it this time, either. And the tiles are black, so it would be hard to discern any detail. Exhaustive analysis was done based on the crew films of the external tank and the ground cameras. They're pretty convinced there is no hardware in the chunk of insulation that hit. That's about it, for now. In the press briefing, too many idiotic reporters were asking the same questions. And the one woman that asked the smart question that I had been wondering about was glossed over. That being were any SRO assets focused on the shuttle during re-entry. I realize that the pan speed of the cameras may be slow, but the widefield views still have a lot of detail. The other question that was never asked is what intrinsically explosive gases or fluids run through the wing area. Hydrazine? Hydrogen? Any O2 tanks in the wing? Could one of them have ruptured or sparked off and blown away part of the wing? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 17:34 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Columbia > > > At 20:38 01/02/2003, you wrote: > > >Somewhat speculative info: > > > >I heard on ABC news this afternoon that there had been > >some external fuel tank insulation knocked off during > >launch of the Columbia, and it had impacted the wing > >surface or some such on I think the left side. Then > >there's a report of a temperature variation in the > >same wing during the early reentry period. > > Although that sounds somewhat implausible (how would ABC > know, when no-one > else does?), I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was the case. > > Incidentally, does anyone know if Columbia had been updated > to the latest > flight s/w & h/w? I know there was work on-going to do this, > but I've no > knowledge of what stage they'd got to. > > >The news report said that since the mission didn't > >have the mech arm they couldn't inspect the wing > >during the mission, but used instead video footage of > >the launch to determine that there wasn't any damage. > > > >Perhaps, unfortunately, it was worse after the > >vibrations of launch? > > It seems to me that maybe a little complacency might have set > in. Maybe > they've landed slightly damaged orbiters before, with no ill effects. > Certainly the post-Challenger analysis was that safety > procedures were less > rigorous than they ought to have been. There've been nearly a hundred > flights since then (or is it slightly more, I forget), maybe > - just maybe - > someone made a wrong call based on the fact "it's always > worked before". > > The trouble is, even if they'd aborted the landing (before > the Shuttle left > ISS presumably), what then? > > I do feel for the astronaut's families, and in almost equal > measure for the > future of humanity in space. We have *got* to find a better > way of getting > in and out of the gravity well. > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com From cb at mythtech.net Sat Feb 1 17:31:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Columbia Message-ID: >I do feel for the astronaut's families, and in almost equal measure for the >future of humanity in space. We have *got* to find a better way of getting >in and out of the gravity well. As sick as it seems... these kind of accidents are exactly what brings about the safer ways of doing things. Nearly all safety measures we as society have for everything can be traced back to someone (or many someones) being injured or killed. -chris From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Feb 1 17:44:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave> At 23:02 01/02/2003, you wrote: >On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > >I heard on ABC news this afternoon that there had been > > >some external fuel tank insulation knocked off during > > >launch of the Columbia, and it had impacted the wing > > Although that sounds somewhat implausible (how would ABC know, when no-one > > else does?), I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was the case. > >There was a fair amount of NASA mention of it this morning. Fair enough. The BBC rather poingiantly (sp?) recorded the last words of Columbia as "Roger...erm..."; so it looks like they didn't get much warning of an imminent problem. > > Incidentally, does anyone know if Columbia had been updated to the latest > > flight s/w & h/w? I know there was work on-going to do this, but I've no > > knowledge of what stage they'd got to. > >Would a newer version of Windoze have reduced the chances of >blue-screening? You can't compile ADA to run on Windows... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Feb 1 17:49:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Dead. (Was: GRiDCase 3: Help!) In-Reply-To: <20030201213002.D53F622948@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <3E3C0874.1720.1481FE3@localhost> On 1 Feb 2003, , David Vohs wrote: > Well, it seems that I have some bad news to pass on to the > group. > > The GRiDCase 3 I just recently bought has bit the dust. > Thanks for everyone's help, but it looks like it just wasn't > meant to be. > > Sad to say, I'll have to confine this machine to he > trashpile. -- > David Vohs > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net > NOO !! Please don't be too quick on that. Remember this is classiccmp not some MSdoze list. Even if it isn't possible to get it working again there are lots of parts on a machine of that vintage that could be used by some of us. Even the case could be valuable to someone with a shattered Grid case or dead plasma screen. What in particular is dead on it ? Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Feb 1 17:56:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:24 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <003101c2ca07$0ec26d40$0100000a@milkyway> <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> Message-ID: <3E3C5DED.2090700@eoni.com> Adrian Vickers wrote: > Incidentally, does anyone know if Columbia had been updated to the latest > flight s/w & h/w? I know there was work on-going to do this, but I've no > knowledge of what stage they'd got to. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Feb 1 18:49:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Cool external FD by Nintendo References: <012801c2c990$f71e31e0$420add40@oemcomputer> <20030201044938.818342237E@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <007201c2ca54$7c899450$7809dd40@oemcomputer> Thanks for the info and now I will have to go back and bug the folks to see if they have the diskettes and any other items that went with it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Vohs" To: Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 10:49 PM Subject: Re: Cool external FD by Nintendo > Now you've went and found something out of the ordinary. Well, from an > American standpoint, anyway. > > The FDD you describe is an external 3" (*not* 3.5") drive that plugged > into the main unit, this would prove to be the item that kept the Famicom > alive until cartridge production prices dropped to acceptable consumer > levels (at its release, game carts. were 4,500+Y, new!) . The FDD uses 3" > disks, similar to the ones that were popular (for a time) in the European > computer market in the early 80's. > > I'm not sure if you can use this with an American NES, but I don't ever > remember seeing a connector on the NES other than for controllers, > cartridges & video out. > > By the way, it was meant to run off batteries, so you could do well > without the AC adaptor. > > On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:26:35 -0600, "Keys" said: > > Today at the thrift I found a red case/black face/yellow button external > > 3.5 > > FD by Nintendo model HVC-022. Most of the writing on it is in Japanese. > > It > > was missing the ac adapter and cable. Copyright date on it is 1985. > > Anyone > > else have one of these? > > > -- > David Vohs > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net From cbajpai at attbi.com Sat Feb 1 19:23:01 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <3E3C5DED.2090700@eoni.com> Message-ID: <000001c2ca59$1b04e180$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> There was some jackass radio broadcaster here (WRKO 680 in Boston) that was speculating it could have been a virus placed in space shuttle computers by terrorists causing it to explode on re-entry. -Chandra From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 1 19:26:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? In-Reply-To: <029d01c2c9ba$d7896140$0400fea9@game> References: <200302010534.h115Y3J13333@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >I find those older scsi HD's never die (unlike the newer ones). I wanted to >try programming on the original hardware since I have the monitor for the >500. I dont need any of the newer os's just to play around with and I think >OS 4 and the hardware platform will be stillborn anyway. My point is that the HD expansions that I've seen for the A500, don't use SCSI disks. That's why I question their reliability. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From paulm064 at icqmail.com Sat Feb 1 19:38:00 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info References: <000101c2ca37$2c126410$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <000d01c2ca5c$910c4e60$8155ddcb@earth2> positive, i know little about most things ,less about pc's and less again about unix boxes but im sure it is an aviion. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeffrey S. Worley To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 7:16 AM Subject: RE: aviion 4000 info > Are you Sure it is an Aviion? I'd love for it to be an MV/4000. It > seems I'm like the only person on earth who has his own DG/MV machine. > Mine runs AOS/VS II and is the size of a dormitory room refrigerator. > Most of them were much larger but I got the pint-sized one which is a > good thing. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Martin Marshall > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 12:09 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: aviion 4000 info > > pmulry wrote: > > I recently aquired a Data General 4000 series server . It appears to > be > > complete (except for keyboard ,mouse and manuals as usual) ;however, > before i > > give it juice would like to confirm its condition. > > Can anyone help me with manuals or point me towards downloadable > manuals (any > > thing that would be useful). Internet search returned very little > info. > > http://www-csc.dg.com/csc/ > > Martin Marshall From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 1 19:42:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Ada (was Re: Columbia) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave>; from avickers@solutionengineers.com on Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 15:37:49 %z References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave> Message-ID: <20030201162414.A10396@Erwin> On 2003.02.01 15:37 Adrian Vickers wrote: > >Would a newer version of Windoze have reduced the chances of > >blue-screening? > > You can't compile ADA to run on Windows... Excuse me? The GNAT development environment is very much available on Windows. I've been tempted to install it on Windows as there is a very nice looking IDE (I believe done by the Air Force) that is freely available for Windows. Unless you're using platform specific code, Ada is *very* transportable. Most of the Ada code I've written compiles without any problem on OpenVMS, Solaris and IRIX. What I have that doesn't is a result of DEC Ada only being Ada83 and I've some stuff that is Ada95 specific. One thing about Ada that I found rather interesting was mention of an OS written in Great Britain in the early 80's. It was written in Ada and ran on the PDP-11. Zane From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Feb 1 19:45:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Help with two Classic tester's Message-ID: <017401c2ca5c$5e413950$7809dd40@oemcomputer> I picked up two testers and need help finding info on them. One is a black UART tester made on metal and is 14"x10"x6". On the top panel are all the switches with large labels such as INTERRUPT INPUTS, DISCRETE INPUTS, and REU ANALOG INPUTS. These are the smaller labels under each switch D.GND, WRITE/READ UART A REGISTERS, PWB CONNECTOR, WRITE/READ UART B REGISTERS, VIDEO SELECT VSYNCA/VSYNCB ON, LOW VOLTAGE ALARM INPUT ON, WR/RD, EOC INTERRUPT, ACD INTERRUPT, UART B INTERRUPT ON, UART A INTERRUPT ON, PWB DC CURRENT (+5V), RESET, COMPANSATION DISABLE, SELF TEST REQUEST. REU/DU HOT, VREF/VS, and 0.012/0.25/0.50. On the front panel are a power switch with selects for INTERNAL or POWER SUPPLY SELECT, MAIN POWER ON switch with red light. On the back panel we have a 25 pin connector, External Power connectors +12, A.GND, -12, and +5, a Fuse, and plug for a power cord. There is no ID labels anywhere on this black box. Any leads? The second tester is a Field Test Unit for old tape drives made by Magnetic Peripherals Inc. part of Control Data. Has equipment ID of TB303A, Series code of 11, PN 75255003 and is this thing every heavy close to 50 pounds in a special carrying case. Any help on this one? Thanks in advance. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Feb 1 19:50:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (teo zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <200302010534.h115Y3J13333@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <000a01c2ca5d$0a4a5c90$0200fea9@burner> I thaught most if not all were SCSI hd's http://www.amiga-society.de/ahwbook/scsi.html The amiga A590 used a rare XT IDE drive but allowed use of scsi using a different connector. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 8:23 PM Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > >I find those older scsi HD's never die (unlike the newer ones). I wanted to > >try programming on the original hardware since I have the monitor for the > >500. I dont need any of the newer os's just to play around with and I think > >OS 4 and the hardware platform will be stillborn anyway. > > My point is that the HD expansions that I've seen for the A500, don't use > SCSI disks. That's why I question their reliability. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From paulm064 at icqmail.com Sat Feb 1 19:55:00 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: laptop Message-ID: <003c01c2ca5f$0c96aba0$8155ddcb@earth2> I have an old 286 laptop that i can't find any info about on the net. the only markings i have to go by are as follows: top markings - attache' bottom markings - FOREFRONT model: LV-286D 17V 12.7A From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Feb 1 20:10:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: A really cool book find at the flea market today Message-ID: <01a301c2ca5f$cc610750$7809dd40@oemcomputer> After selling several boxes of books today at the flea market I started looking at them myself later in the day and fond this black book titled Dictionary of Computing Second Edition 1986. But the cool factor was that it was stamped apple computer inc. LIBRARY in several spots through out the book. The card pouch in the back covers has a stamp with APPLE COMPUTER, INC LIBRARY CUPERTINO, CA 95014 and a Apple Library bar code label with the number 22505 on it under the bar code. I started looking at the other boxes of books and could not find any other books from Apple and I'm not sure how many I may have sold earlier in the day. :-( From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sat Feb 1 20:19:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Any New Zealand DEC heads on the list? References: Message-ID: <098501c2ca61$27c3ff70$0101a8c0@athlon> No VAX stuff I'm aware of but I could point him at a stack of PDP stuff-was all powered off about 4 years ago and just sitting there. Saw it again just before Xmas. Dave B Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 5:39 AM Subject: Any New Zealand DEC heads on the list? > I've a friend there looking to get his hands on a VAX. > > -brian. From loedman1 at juno.com Sat Feb 1 20:31:00 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Columbia Message-ID: <20030201.182623.-130279.0.loedman1@juno.com> >Alright all you tech heads, dust off your grade school prayers >and say a few for the Shuttle astronauts. No time like the >present to show some respect. >John A. >news: Columbia lost 16min before landing at ~40+mi. altitude I had the good fortune of being at Edwards AFB for the first landing of Columbia and will never forget the thrill of being one of 250,000 cheering witnesses to that unforgettable event. Over the years I acquired every piece of Columbia memorabilia I could locate, much of it through a friend who works for NASA, and have continued to follow the "career" of the first functional shuttle. Today has not been a good day in my house. Rich Stephenson Calif. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Feb 1 20:56:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030201183837.031b4ab0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >As sick as it seems... these kind of accidents are exactly what brings >about the safer ways of doing things. My only hope is that this results in a push for a new vehicle design, not a general pulling away from manned space. From foo at siconic.com Sat Feb 1 21:16:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: DEC still strong in government / academia In-Reply-To: <0302012311.AA22899@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Michael Sokolov wrote: > When I was registering my company in the San Diego County Clerk's office > in June of last year (that's the same place where couples tie the knot > on this side of the pond) I was similarly delighted to see all the > clerks typing on DEC terminals, with DECconnect cables running around > the office. The County Recorder's office in Alameda County (home county of Oakland and Berkeley, CA) has all up to date Windows machines for doing look-ups and such. The last time I came through to register stuff was about 5 years ago and they had those clunky IBM terminals. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Feb 1 21:16:13 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: DEC still strong in government / academia In-Reply-To: <0302012311.AA22899@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Michael Sokolov wrote: > When I was registering my company in the San Diego County Clerk's > office in June of last year (that's the same place where couples tie > the knot on this side of the pond) I was similarly delighted to see > all the clerks typing on DEC terminals, with DECconnect cables running > around the office. > > And a few years ago when I was still watching TV (happily living > without a TV for 2.5 years now) there was a program asking people to > donate blood. They showed footage of the process and my eyes were > immediately caught by a VT220. > > But unfortunately most libraries, a former stronghold of VMS-based > catalog servers and public DEC VT terminals, have now been lost to > pee-sea-fication. Another place you'll find lots of DEC terminals are in California IKEA stores (and possibly at IKEAs elsewhere). All throughout the upper level showroom areas are terminals which invariably are VT320s and I think I've seen some VT420s. I've no idea what the backend systems are. -brian. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Feb 1 21:18:00 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030201183837.031b4ab0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <8C034E98-365C-11D7-BBB3-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> One would hope. Although a new platform, as we all here know perhaps more than most, is going to have more bugs than the 22 year old shuttle platform. Still, hopefully they'll start funding SSTO more. On Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 07:40 PM, Mike Ford wrote: >> As sick as it seems... these kind of accidents are exactly what brings >> about the safer ways of doing things. > > > My only hope is that this results in a push for a new vehicle design, > not a general pulling away from manned space. From foo at siconic.com Sat Feb 1 21:20:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <033d01c2ca48$508e8a10$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > What hit the tiles appeared to be only insulation. The tiles are > brittle, but a chunk of insulation shouldn't have damaged them. Even at Mach 1? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Feb 1 21:34:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030201183837.031b4ab0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E3C9119.8090302@eoni.com> Right on. In a previous life I did a bunch of prelim work on the X-30 (as well as hands on work on OV-99, OV-103, 4, 5.) Be nice to see the old plans dusted off. Maybe updated a decade or so and BUILT. Single stage to orbit. Jim Mike Ford wrote: >> As sick as it seems... these kind of accidents are exactly what brings >> about the safer ways of doing things. > > > > My only hope is that this results in a push for a new vehicle design, > not a general pulling away from manned space. > > . From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Sat Feb 1 22:23:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <000001c2ca59$1b04e180$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <000001c2ca59$1b04e180$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <1044159791.2160.2.camel@azure.subsolar> On Sat, 2003-02-01 at 19:19, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > There was some jackass radio broadcaster here (WRKO 680 in Boston) that > was speculating it could have been a virus placed in space shuttle > computers by terrorists causing it to explode on re-entry. Gotta get the fear mongering in to raise ratings!! Also we need to pass more obnoxious laws, and get more support for attacking Iraq so gotta mention the terrorism card whenever we can! Paul From Technoid at 30below.com Sat Feb 1 22:26:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info In-Reply-To: <000d01c2ca5c$910c4e60$8155ddcb@earth2> Message-ID: <000201c2ca72$e3ce3620$6401a8c0@benchbox> Well darn. Anyway, I can direct you to a source for install media and keyboard/mouse. Call Computer Parts Barn in Asheville, North Carolina. The proprietor there has a ton of DG stuff including Aviion gear. He'll be able to help you if anyone can. The number should be (828) 274-5963. The name is Ed Kirby. He's a little hard to get to know, but he's a nice guy and I swear by him. IIRC, the Aviions generally ran a version of DG/UX which is DG's version of Unix. There might be a version of AOS for it as well, but I'm not sure on that score. There were two kinds of Aviion (Nova in reverse if you didn't know). There was a Motorola 88k CPU-based version (sometimes multiprocessor), and an Intel version. The Intel versions are the latter. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of pmulry Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 8:44 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: aviion 4000 info positive, i know little about most things ,less about pc's and less again about unix boxes but im sure it is an aviion. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeffrey S. Worley To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 7:16 AM Subject: RE: aviion 4000 info > Are you Sure it is an Aviion? I'd love for it to be an MV/4000. It > seems I'm like the only person on earth who has his own DG/MV machine. > Mine runs AOS/VS II and is the size of a dormitory room refrigerator. > Most of them were much larger but I got the pint-sized one which is a > good thing. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Martin Marshall > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 12:09 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: aviion 4000 info > > pmulry wrote: > > I recently aquired a Data General 4000 series server . It appears to > be > > complete (except for keyboard ,mouse and manuals as usual) ;however, > before i > > give it juice would like to confirm its condition. > > Can anyone help me with manuals or point me towards downloadable > manuals (any > > thing that would be useful). Internet search returned very little > info. > > http://www-csc.dg.com/csc/ > > Martin Marshall From Technoid at 30below.com Sat Feb 1 22:31:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Expect to see fewer hard drives. In-Reply-To: <0302012118.AA22821@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <000301c2ca73$9dc55400$6401a8c0@benchbox> It wouldn't let me. The os is Solaris 2.4. When I booted single-user I still had to feed it the root P/W which I didn't have. I never did get the root PW. Apparently the admin was a conciencious one. I broke the machine by running Jack on the drive on a Linux machine, got a few passwords and usernames, then set the prom date way back. When Solaris booted and I fed it the user's (not root) PW, the machine bombed to a root prompt with a message something like (irrational date). It freaked the machine that a user who'd not been created yet just logged on. I got root that way, changed root pw from there and on I went. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Michael Sokolov Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 4:18 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Expect to see fewer hard drives. Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > I bought a Sun Sparcstation 4/330 a few years ago. It's hdd was intact > and after breaking the password file [...] Why did you need to do that? Why couldn't you just boot single-user from the ROM and get a root shell? MS From paulm064 at icqmail.com Sat Feb 1 23:11:01 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info References: <000201c2ca72$e3ce3620$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <05da01c2ca7a$60bb3e60$8155ddcb@earth2> thanks for the info; i must have the motorola 88k multiprocessor (3 chips socket mounted on motherboard with 3 additional chips soldered directly to small board mounted over other chips). 3 sticks of ram ,1 marked as 4Mb others unknown. No graphics card (will have to learn to set up hyperterminal on old pc) . Nothing tested yet ,still cleaning. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeffrey S. Worley To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 2:23 PM Subject: RE: aviion 4000 info > Well darn. > > Anyway, I can direct you to a source for install media and > keyboard/mouse. Call Computer Parts Barn in Asheville, North Carolina. > The proprietor there has a ton of DG stuff including Aviion gear. He'll > be able to help you if anyone can. The number should be (828) 274-5963. > The name is Ed Kirby. He's a little hard to get to know, but he's a nice > guy and I swear by him. > > IIRC, the Aviions generally ran a version of DG/UX which is DG's version > of Unix. There might be a version of AOS for it as well, but I'm not > sure on that score. > > There were two kinds of Aviion (Nova in reverse if you didn't know). > There was a Motorola 88k CPU-based version (sometimes multiprocessor), > and an Intel version. The Intel versions are the latter. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of pmulry > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 8:44 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: aviion 4000 info > > positive, i know little about most things ,less about pc's and less > again > about unix boxes but im sure it is an aviion. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeffrey S. Worley > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 7:16 AM > Subject: RE: aviion 4000 info > > > > Are you Sure it is an Aviion? I'd love for it to be an MV/4000. It > > seems I'm like the only person on earth who has his own DG/MV machine. > > Mine runs AOS/VS II and is the size of a dormitory room refrigerator. > > Most of them were much larger but I got the pint-sized one which is a > > good thing. > > > > Regards, > > > > Jeff > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > On Behalf Of Martin Marshall > > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 12:09 AM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: aviion 4000 info > > > > pmulry wrote: > > > I recently aquired a Data General 4000 series server . It appears to > > be > > > complete (except for keyboard ,mouse and manuals as usual) ;however, > > before i > > > give it juice would like to confirm its condition. > > > Can anyone help me with manuals or point me towards downloadable > > manuals (any > > > thing that would be useful). Internet search returned very little > > info. > > > > http://www-csc.dg.com/csc/ > > > > Martin Marshall From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 2 00:41:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave> Message-ID: <49858.63.224.195.18.1044167911.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > You can't compile ADA to run on Windows... That is most assuredly false. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 2 00:48:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030201183837.031b4ab0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030201183837.031b4ab0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <49864.63.224.195.18.1044168324.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > My only hope is that this results in a push for a new vehicle design, > not a general pulling away from manned space. Bring back the Delta Clipper! Built out of proven, working hardware, instead of the damn X-33 and X-34 designs that were chosen instead, and found to be made of unobtanium. If there's anyone at NASA that I'd like to see RIF'd, it's the bozos that made that brain-damaged X34 decision. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 2 00:50:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: References: <033d01c2ca48$508e8a10$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <49867.63.224.195.18.1044168438.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> What hit the tiles appeared to be only insulation. The tiles are >> brittle, but a chunk of insulation shouldn't have damaged them. > > Even at Mach 1? The relative speed of the chunk of insulation to the wing at the time of impact surely couldn't have been anywhere near that fast. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Feb 2 01:02:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <000001c2ca59$1b04e180$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <004701c2ca88$c9f90b60$0100000a@milkyway> Chandra Bajpai wrote: > There was some jackass radio broadcaster here (WRKO 680 in Boston) > that was speculating it could have been a virus placed in space > shuttle computers by terrorists causing it to explode on re-entry. And how many virus authors would be able to get the guidance computer's *schematics* in the first place? Without a simulator (or a real machine) and a copy of the schematics, trying to write a virus like that would be damn near impossible IMO. And yet the general (technophobe) population of Boston may well have believed him... Idiots like that shouldn't be allowed to broadcast anything, period. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From RCTech at cnri.us Sun Feb 2 03:26:56 2003 From: RCTech at cnri.us (RCTech) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 paper Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030130121413.00b76520@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> I have several rolls of TI Silent 700 thermal paper in the original plastic wrapping. These date to approximately 1982. What are the chances that they are still good? And is anybody looking for some TI Silent 700 paper? From chamart at sympatico.ca Sun Feb 2 03:27:35 2003 From: chamart at sympatico.ca (Charles Martin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: intel 8008 Message-ID: <001601c2c885$17ebf360$0500a8c0@psyberne8gwty9> What is the name of the society fouded in 1972 that used intel 8008 fot a system measuring traffic From petejames at hotpop.com Sun Feb 2 03:27:38 2003 From: petejames at hotpop.com (J. Darren Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Bernoulli cartridges In-Reply-To: <1043940017.2282.29.camel@msnb5> References: <1043934021.1745.5.camel@msnb5> <1043939847.2283.27.camel@msnb5> <1043940017.2282.29.camel@msnb5> Message-ID: <1043941983.2282.42.camel@msnb5> All, I've two disks from a friend who's looking to sell them. They are Bernoullli cartridges. The box and disk markings are as listed below. The cartridges are 5-1/4-in squared. Oh, yeah...there's either two 120's and six 230's, or vice versa. Anyone interested in the lot? Darren Peterson disk 1 (sealed in transparent plastic bag) ------------------------------------------------------ box: Double-Sided ESDI 525000-120 Information Storage, Inc. 2768 Janitell Rd. Colorado Springs, CO 80906 disk: Certified Optical Media Information Storage, Inc. 000024061 000024602 disk 2 (sealed in transparent plastic bag) ------------------------------------------------------ box: Double-Sided WC 230 99-1108-02 Literal / ISI 2180 Executive Circle Colorado Springs, CO 80906 disk: Certified Optical Media Information Storage, Inc. 000100356 000100357 From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Sun Feb 2 03:27:41 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: Message-ID: <004701c2c890$9d50a8b0$0101c80a@p2350> LSL wasn't a "SoftPorn ripoff" as such -- it was definitely inspired by the game, and in fact, the Leisure Suit Larry Collection Series (boxed set of the first 6 games in all versions) INCLUDES the PC version of SoftPorn. Al Lowe (the person behind the LSL series, originally a school teacher - would you believe that!) has fully acknowledged that LSL was inspired by SoftPorn. ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Sierra Adventure Games > >> ... Leisure Suit Larry 1, too. > > > >Hey! I still have LSL1 1.0 - 5.25" original disks, not a copy (fished it > >out of a pile of debris left by a departing college student a number of > >years ago) > > > >It's... um... a *classic*! > > Ah, but do you have "SoftPorn" the game that LSL-1 was a rip off of? I > played that on my Apple II eons ago (I just saw it on one of the game > archive links that passed thru this list recently in anyone wanted to DL > it) > > -chris > From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Sun Feb 2 03:27:43 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <3E3843D1.3483.CEC08B5@localhost> Message-ID: <007f01c2c891$8965abb0$0101c80a@p2350> Just a thought: Bill Gates IS an old fart :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:12 AM Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > How can anyone who is not a DEC-freak fail to > remember "Leasure-Suit Larry". For obvious self- > derogatory reasons this was one of my favorite > games. I have V 1 for MSDOS and 1-3 for Atari ST. > I don't especially like adventure games but it was > indeed "special" if only for it's sense of self-depreciating > humor. That's something that seems to be lost for this > generation of hackers(?) who seem to think substituting > "z" for "s" is some sort of statement. > > I have a progam somewhere for 8 bit Ataris that strung > together a bunch of stills of a woman performing felatio, > which I found more humorous than erotic. Also some 8- > bit Demos by Michel Jarre and another even bigger > German demo programmer whose name escapes me . > Some of their sound-light programs are even now > astounding. This was on-the-edge shit and for the most > part seems to be dying (what do you do when not coding > boring stuff) in favor of repeating some hi-paying sort of > state propaganda shit based on GI-Joe. > "Up the Empire". Blecch ! > > Oh well us old farts are gonna die soon and the Bill > Gate's will be free to have their way. Memories are short. > > Lawrence > > On 29 Jan 2003, , Ed Tillman wrote: > > > I don't remember LSL, but mama suggests trying to see if > > anyone remembers or has "Castle of Doctor Brain," or any of > > its sequels... I don't remember those either, but she > > assures me they're late '70s - early '80s, and worked on > > both Atari and TRS-80s... > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > Ed > > San Antonio, Tx, USA > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "chris" > > To: "Classic Computer" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:18 AM > > Subject: RE: Sierra Adventure Games > > > > > > > >> ... Leisure Suit Larry 1, too. > > > > > > > >Hey! I still have LSL1 1.0 - 5.25" original disks, not a > > > >copy (fished it out of a pile of debris left by a > > > >departing college student a number of years ago) > > > > > > > >It's... um... a *classic*! > > > > > > Ah, but do you have "SoftPorn" the game that LSL-1 was a > > > rip off of? I played that on my Apple II eons ago (I just > > > saw it on one of the game archive links that passed thru > > > this list recently in anyone wanted to DL it) > > > > > > -chris > > > > > > lgwalker@ mts.net From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Sun Feb 2 03:27:46 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <02b101c2c7e0$bd3516d0$434a1942@starfury> <01e701c2c7e5$610ee700$0100000a@milkyway> <02f901c2c7e7$5be43350$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <00a001c2c892$5d3574c0$0101c80a@p2350> The Castle, Island or Lost Mind of Dr. Brain games came out for the IBM PC (VGA) in the very early '90s ('91, '92 and '95 respectively). Unless there were other games these were based on, there are no TRS-80 versions. There was definitely an Amiga version of "Castle" and I vaguely recall an Amiga version for "Island"; there may also have been an Atari ST version of "Castle." By the way, information of this nature can be found in http://www.mobygames.com -- a site which I heartily recommend. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Tillman" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:40 AM Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > Can you tell me/us what they're like? Mama swears by them, but I don't > recall ever having seen them. And, by "PC," does that mean current or DOS? > > Cheers! > > Ed > San Antonio, Tx, USA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Philip Pemberton" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 04:25 PM > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > > I've got the PC VGA versions of "Turbo Science", "Castle of Doctor Brain" > > and "Island of Doctor Brain". Disks are in a box somewhere, same for the > > manuals. > > > > Later. > > -- > > Phil. From bill at timeguy.com Sun Feb 2 03:27:49 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: OT: RoadRunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! Message-ID: <20030130150111.H9412-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> After getting a number of "Are you still alive?" messages from various friends on the web, and having sent similar messages to them when I received no response to other e-mails, I made an infuriating discovery. RoadRunner is listed in several blacklists (dsbl.org for one), and a number of ISPs are blocking e-mail from their domain (at least from RoadRunner Nebraska - nebr.rr.com). RoadRunner's response was to fix the open relay and get delisted, right? Nope. Their response was to state that they "don't negotiate with blacklists" and promptly _blocked_ all mail from dsbl.org to RoadRunner users. Hence, I would send e-mails to my friends, they would be bounced due to the blacklisting, and I would have no indication of a problem because RR's block would prevent the "bounce" message from getting back to me. Bastards. At least one person I was corresponding with is no longer speaking to me because they thought I was ignoring them. I'm about ready to start a class action suit, although they probably have something in the fine print that prevents that. GRRR! From vance at neurotica.com Sun Feb 2 03:27:52 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I have NO idea what was called, or where the disk went, but I remember it > > because it was to me just incredible that a computer could turn something > > like that out. > > Never underestimate the horniness of men (especially computer geeks). Speaking of, does anyone remember the Artworx Strip Poker games? They were available in the beginning for Apple II, PC, Commodore 64, and Atari, but the later games were available only for PC. I really liked those games. Peace... Sridhar From johnet at ikansas.com Sun Feb 2 03:27:55 2003 From: johnet at ikansas.com (John Trotter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: GRiDCASE 1520 update Message-ID: <000601c2c8e8$780ab250$0100a8c0@home1> Hey, Did you ever get HD to respond? If so let me know. I've tried everything I know to get this 1520 up and running. I thought it would be cool to run it with windows 1.01. Thanks, John From vance at neurotica.com Sun Feb 2 03:27:58 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: <014201c2c89f$33a40e20$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > > > It's 2003. Can't the government use some lowercase letters for > > > fuck's sake? > > > > BUT THE ALL-UPPERCASE USED IN THESE MESSAGES IS A REMNANT > > FROM THE DAWN OF THE COMPUTING AND THE USE OF TELETYPES! > > WHAT SORT OF CLASSIC COMPUTER HOBBYIST ARE YOU, ANYWAY!? > > > > HEY JEFF, CAN YOU ADD A RULE TO YOUR DEMIME FILTER TO > > MAKE IT SO THAT ALL OF THE MESSAGES ARE TRANSLATED INTO > > UPPERCASE? WE'RE WASTING PRECIOUS BANDWIDTH WITH ALL OF > > THIS BULKY 7 BIT ASCII CRAP. > > > > DAMN KIDS THESE DAYS, WITH THEIR PANSY-ASS-KEY TERMINALS. > > GET OFFA MY LAWN! > > > > -BRIAN. > > Brian, > > How about we punch all of our messages on to cards and post PNG images of > the cards for you die-hard types to decode and enjoy? Alternatively, we > could post messages in Motorola or Intel paper tape format - that might be > fun for you too! > > :-) How about this: I'll just send my messages as usual, but instead of ASCII, I'll encode in EBCDIC. It wouldn't be too hard to do. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From setni at eunet.yu Sun Feb 2 03:28:02 2003 From: setni at eunet.yu (Danilo Oklobdzija) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Bee 3 Emulator Message-ID: <000801c2c8f2$169b1be0$0e05f0d5@dane> I am looking for emulator for Beehive Bee 3 Computer Terminal. Best regards. From gkbrown at gwi.net Sun Feb 2 03:28:05 2003 From: gkbrown at gwi.net (Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Teletype machine Message-ID: <001101c2c90e$05a1a540$5595c3d8@gkbrown> Hi Gil: I was wondering if you were in the market for another M14-TD. I aquired one the other day. It is all there but quite dusty. I did find some info on it on the web but all the ones I saw were grey. This one is black. I can take a few pictures and send them to you. Any Idea what the age is on this beast. By the way, I have also got to go back this spring and pick up a bunch of other teletype stuff, such as the consol and related items. Regards Gary...WZ1M From FrankButash at email.msn.com Sun Feb 2 03:28:08 2003 From: FrankButash at email.msn.com (FrankButash) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: IBM System/3 owners Message-ID: <000801c2c926$ff6451a0$aac0fea9@beelt5> Greetings, I am interesting in finding used IBM System 3x computers for sale. Can you direct me to any sites or organizations? Thanks, Frank Butash 860-232-7173 Fax: 860-232-3037 From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Sun Feb 2 03:28:12 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20030131144635.91896.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> Yes, very much worth rescuing. Very nice 1970's era 16 bit minicomputer. There are many of these machines in use in all kinds of embedded and real-time applications. If you can't find anyone interested in the Seattle area and its running, consider donating it to a local high school computer club. Lee Courtney --- Geoff Reed wrote: > Is a HP 2100 worth rescuing ? and if I were to > rescue it is there anyone > who be interested in it (I'm out of room) From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Sun Feb 2 03:28:16 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20030131144635.91896.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> Yes, very much worth rescuing. Very nice 1970's era 16 bit minicomputer. There are many of these machines in use in all kinds of embedded and real-time applications. If you can't find anyone interested in the Seattle area and its running, consider donating it to a local high school computer club. Lee Courtney --- Geoff Reed wrote: > Is a HP 2100 worth rescuing ? and if I were to > rescue it is there anyone > who be interested in it (I'm out of room) From mhstein at canada.com Sun Feb 2 03:28:19 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive Message-ID: <01C2C940.E103AE80@mse-d03> --------------------Original Messages-------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:03:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" Subject: Re: Model 100 DVI drive On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > Hi Rich: > I can't answer your question, but I do have a DVI and the manual and s/w, > if that can help you in any way. It runs CP/M IIRC. > And if anybody's interested, make me an offer... > mike in Toronto, Can. Could you check the manual, and confirm that it runs CP/M? All of the ones that we've ever seen ran a unique OS, with a directory structure based on the Microsoft stand-alone-BASIC. A CP/M for it would significantly increase the desirability of it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, as I've mentioned here previously, I have some serious problems with my memory, so my recollection is probably faulty, and I'm certainly not about to argue with you, Fred. Alas, another aspect of this memory problem is that I can't remember where a lot of stuff is any more (although that's always been a problem :), so I haven't been able to find the manual yet. I have found the DVI & boot diskette though, and after a half hour search, the 100 and its user and tech manuals but, alas, not the 100>DVI cable. If & when I find either the DVI manual or the cable, I'll check it out & let you know, but you're probably right. mike From koyote at koyote.cx Sun Feb 2 03:28:22 2003 From: koyote at koyote.cx (Koyote) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: [rescue] Old Commodore Model 202 adding machine In-Reply-To: <3E3B30E2.3030100@internet1.net> References: <3E3B30E2.3030100@internet1.net> Message-ID: oooooooooooooooooo Chad Fernandez writes: > Hey all, > > I just saw an old Commodore adding machine, model 202, or something > similar, at one of the local Goodwill outlets. It was cheap, but I > have no interest in it myself. Do I need to go back tomorrow and pick > it up from someone???? This is something I haven't seem before, and I > don't want to pass it up if someone else really wants it. > > I'll do this for about $5.00 over my cost. I think the thing was > labeled at $1.99, or something similar. Shipping will probably be the > biggest cost, if I pack it well. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > _______________________________________________ > rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue From JimGSherlock at aol.com Sun Feb 2 03:28:25 2003 From: JimGSherlock at aol.com (JimGSherlock@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: WPD Message-ID: <123.1d90301a.2b6cf8d1@aol.com> Similar - I am trying to find a converter or reader for .WPD file (PFS WinWorks Word files Any help appreciated Cheers Jim From vance at neurotica.com Sun Feb 2 03:28:28 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies Message-ID: I'm trying to think of all the really old computer companies that are still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make computers. DEC and DG are gone. So there's HP, IBM, Bull... are there any others left from way-back-when? Oh yeah, there's Siemens. And Amdahl's part of Fujitsu now. Do they still count? I guess Fujitsu probably counts on its own merits. Hitachi and Toshiba left the industry recently, after many years. And then there's Unisys, with their recent turn to weird hybrid systems. Did I miss anyone? Peace... Sridhar From mhstein at canada.com Sun Feb 2 03:28:33 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Another apology Message-ID: <01C2C9E0.12B36840@mse-d03> ------Original Message-------------- From: "Ernest" Subject: RE: Another apology Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:05:10 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of M H Stein > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 5:01 AM > To: 'ClassicComputers' > Subject: Another apology > > > To everyone who's waiting to hear from me > about stuff I've offered, another apology! > Been awfully busy with work & health matters > and haven't had time to look at things in > detail, but you'll all hear from me Real > Soon Now... > > mike in Toronto No problem. How do we get a hold of you via email? Your old account isn't working anymore. ---------------------------------- Hi Ernest: Address is mhstein at canada dot com; don't know why it's not in your original message, it is in my copy of the digest. The Apple clone's still on the shelf with your name on it in indelible black marker :); sorry I dropped the ball. Decided not to keep the bio-feedback H/W & S/W, so I'll throw it in; it also has an 80 col card AFAIK. Write me off-list & we'll work out a reasonable price. Thanks for your patience & understanding, although the longer it sits, the more valuable an antique it becomes, right? :) mike From mhstein at canada.com Sun Feb 2 03:28:36 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: Looking for : Sharp PC-1405 Message-ID: <01C2C9E0.16C287E0@mse-d03> --------------Original Message------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:27:36 -0500 (EST) From: liste@artware.qc.ca Subject: Looking for : Sharp PC-1405 Or equiv (Tandy had them as PC-2 or something, iirc). The goal of my classic collection is to get one of every computer I've programmed over the years. One of the first computers I programmed was a PC-1405 (actually, I can't remember the exact model). I found one of these in a pawn shop. By brother "stole" it. I found another. This was my one classic computer that was helluva useful. So useful I took it with my places. And, well, I've just lost it. I've checked eBay and there are a few Sharp Pocket Computers, but W@W L@@K @ T3H PR1C3Z! Buy it now for "only" 300 USD! http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3000156764&category=15030 So, does anyone here have one they don't need and/or would be willing to let go for a reasonable price? -Philip -------------------------------------- I've got a PC-1421 Financial Computer if you (or anybody) are interested: 76 character keyboard 16 character display 40K ROM Basic 4.2 Kb RAM Interface for optional CE-126 Printer/Cassette (don't have) 6 modes: Normal calculator Financial calculator Statistical calculator Basic program mode Basic run mode Almost new, in box with cover & 280P manual. Make me an offer (less than US$ 300, or even CDN$ 300 :). mike From mhstein at canada.com Sun Feb 2 03:28:39 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: IBM floppy Message-ID: <01C2C9E2.E0497EA0@mse-d03> I apologize for this being way within the 10 years, but there's such a wealth of knowledge & experience on this list I just had to ask: I've got an IBM Ambra 6300 08E here that came without a floppy drive (just an HD & CD-ROM), which makes it very awkward to run diagnostics, install drivers, etc. Does anybody know how to add a 3.5 floppy? I've tried a Panasonic & a Sony, the normal way, drive 1 with the twist, and also drive 0 without, but no luck. Any ideas? Thanks for any help, and sorry for the OT. mike From kurt at ees1s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu Sun Feb 2 03:28:43 2003 From: kurt at ees1s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Kurt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: hp 9836 system software? Message-ID: Dear cctalk people, I recently got my hands on a HP 9836CU with monitor and HP-IB hard disk. Upon power-up, the machine behaves similarly to Stan's post of Thu, 23 Jan 2003, where his 9836 gave him this: . > Flexible Disc > Flexible Disc Failed and he heard this: . > After the POST, but before the 9836C looks for an OS to load, it emits a > series of high and low pitched beeps (low, low, high, low, high, high, > low). But my 9836CU does not boot. The lights on the front of the HP-IB disk flash when the machine goes through POST an tries to boot, but the disk does not seem to be spinning and I don't hear heads moving. I don't know whether the hard disk works nor do I have any floppies, bootable or otherwise. Does anyone have any floppies that can be used to boot the a HP 9836CU? Other system software? Documentation? thanks, -kurt From vance at neurotica.com Sun Feb 2 03:28:46 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:25 2005 Subject: DEC still strong in government / academia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > When I was registering my company in the San Diego County Clerk's > > office in June of last year (that's the same place where couples tie > > the knot on this side of the pond) I was similarly delighted to see > > all the clerks typing on DEC terminals, with DECconnect cables running > > around the office. > > The County Recorder's office in Alameda County (home county of Oakland > and Berkeley, CA) has all up to date Windows machines for doing look-ups > and such. The last time I came through to register stuff was about 5 > years ago and they had those clunky IBM terminals. I'd take a 3278 over a PC any day. Peace... Sridhar From kurt at ees1s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu Sun Feb 2 03:28:50 2003 From: kurt at ees1s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Kurt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: hp 9836 system software? Message-ID: Dear cctalk people, I recently got my hands on a HP 9836CU with monitor and HP-IB hard disk. Upon power-up, the machine behaves similarly to Stan's post of Thu, 23 Jan 2003, where his 9836 gave him this: . > Flexible Disc > Flexible Disc Failed and he heard this: . > After the POST, but before the 9836C looks for an OS to load, it emits a > series of high and low pitched beeps (low, low, high, low, high, high, > low). But my 9836CU does not boot. The lights on the front of the HP-IB disk flash when the machine goes through POST an tries to boot, but the disk does not seem to be spinning and I don't hear heads moving. I don't know whether the hard disk works nor do I have any floppies, bootable or otherwise. Does anyone have any floppies that can be used to boot the a HP 9836CU? Other system software? Documentation? thanks, -kurt From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Feb 2 03:59:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Ada (was Re: Columbia) In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Ada (was Re: Columbia)" (Feb 1, 16:24) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave> <20030201162414.A10396@Erwin> Message-ID: <10302020931.ZM11256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 1, 16:24, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Excuse me? The GNAT development environment is very much available > on Windows. I've been tempted to install it on Windows as there is > a very nice looking IDE (I believe done by the Air Force) that is > freely available for Windows. Indeed, Computer Science at York does quite a lot of teaching in Ada on Windows. I don't know if they still do, but they used to let students in practical classes use either Linux or Windows, because Ada was one of the few things that works exactly hte same under either -- except, in our setup, for network bandwidth. The Ada classes (using Windows) were responsible for my having to upgrade the classroom links. > One thing about Ada that I found rather interesting was mention of an > OS written in Great Britain in the early 80's. It was written in Ada > and ran on the PDP-11. Probably written by CompSci staff at York. They certainly wrote a compiler and an environment to support it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From hansp at aconit.org Sun Feb 2 04:13:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies References: Message-ID: <3E3CEEBD.3090306@aconit.org> vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I'm trying to think of all the really old computer companies that are > still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make computers. DEC and DG > are gone. So there's HP, IBM, Bull... are there any others left from > way-back-when? Oh yeah, there's Siemens. And Amdahl's part of Fujitsu > now. Do they still count? I guess Fujitsu probably counts on its own > merits. Hitachi and Toshiba left the industry recently, after many years. > And then there's Unisys, with their recent turn to weird hybrid systems. > Did I miss anyone? Fujitsu certainly counts, the earliest Fujitsu computer on my CCC list is the FACOM-100 dated 1954 NEC has been around since the early days, the NEAC 1101 dates from 1958 and the currently most powerful machine is the NEC Earth Simulator. By comparison, HP is a mere stripling, I list its first computer as the 2116-A in 1966. Then there is Cray, recently revived but still in business. -- hbp From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Feb 2 04:54:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Ada (was Re: Columbia) In-Reply-To: <20030201162414.A10396@Erwin> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030202103742.018eede0@slave> At 00:24 02/02/2003, you wrote: >On 2003.02.01 15:37 Adrian Vickers wrote: >> >Would a newer version of Windoze have reduced the chances of >> >blue-screening? >>You can't compile ADA to run on Windows... > >Excuse me? The GNAT development environment is very much available >on Windows. I've been tempted to install it on Windows as there is >a very nice looking IDE (I believe done by the Air Force) that is >freely available for Windows. Ah yes, GNAT. Runs in a DOS box, doesn't it? Now you mention it, I do recall GNAT having some windows capabilities, but they were fairly feeble IIRC. Even the example windows prog crashes a lot - again, IIRC. >Unless you're using platform specific code, Ada is *very* >transportable. The trouble being, of course, that almost everything *is* platform specific. That's not a criticism of Ada per se; most "portable" code suffers on different platforms, especially when windowing environments are in use. Mind you, when Linux and X become the defacto industry standard which every machine runs, portability issues will be largely a thing of the past... I hope. > Most of the Ada code I've written compiles without >any problem on OpenVMS, Solaris and IRIX. What I have that doesn't >is a result of DEC Ada only being Ada83 and I've some stuff that is >Ada95 specific. I think the last time I seriously looked at Ada was in about '95, I forget what level of the language we had. It ran on VMS (on that Vax 8800 I mentioned earlier). I looked at GNAT about 2-3 years ago, but couldn't remember enough about Ada to make even a simple program compile. >One thing about Ada that I found rather interesting was mention of an >OS written in Great Britain in the early 80's. It was written in Ada >and ran on the PDP-11. An OS written in Ada? Any idea what it was called? -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Sun Feb 2 05:25:01 2003 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: intel 8008 In-Reply-To: <001601c2c885$17ebf360$0500a8c0@psyberne8gwty9> References: <001601c2c885$17ebf360$0500a8c0@psyberne8gwty9> Message-ID: <1044184942.14136.12.camel@silke.rt.schwaben.de> "Traf-O-Data", according to "Fire in the Valley"... regards ms On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 18:29, Charles Martin wrote: > What is the name of the society fouded in 1972 that used intel 8008 fot a > system measuring traffic -- Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de Sieben auf einen Streich From cbajpai at attbi.com Sun Feb 2 06:41:01 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <3E3CEEBD.3090306@aconit.org> Message-ID: <000001c2cab7$f12bca40$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> The "new" Cray has nothing to do with the old cray. The new Cray, also known as Teracomputer built massively parallel systems...they bought the name from Silicon Graphics. I got a video tape from Teracomputer extolling the virtues of their systems....pretty neat...but not the brand name recognition that Cray gives you. I did have the opportunity to meet Gene Amdahl...what a nice guy (btw he did tell me he is a Mac user)...I asked for (and got) an autographed copy of his picture. What ever happened to Andor (his last company) and what were they trying to build? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Hans B Pufal Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 5:11 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Old Computer Companies vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I'm trying to think of all the really old computer companies that are > still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make computers. DEC and DG > are gone. So there's HP, IBM, Bull... are there any others left from > way-back-when? Oh yeah, there's Siemens. And Amdahl's part of Fujitsu > now. Do they still count? I guess Fujitsu probably counts on its own > merits. Hitachi and Toshiba left the industry recently, after many years. > And then there's Unisys, with their recent turn to weird hybrid systems. > Did I miss anyone? Fujitsu certainly counts, the earliest Fujitsu computer on my CCC list is the FACOM-100 dated 1954 NEC has been around since the early days, the NEAC 1101 dates from 1958 and the currently most powerful machine is the NEC Earth Simulator. By comparison, HP is a mere stripling, I list its first computer as the 2116-A in 1966. Then there is Cray, recently revived but still in business. -- hbp From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sun Feb 2 06:45:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies References: <3E3CEEBD.3090306@aconit.org> Message-ID: <001201c2cab7$b7759ec0$434a1942@starfury> Actually, DEC is still somewhat around -- it was absorbed into Compaq in 1997, and, of course, Compaq was absorbed into HP last year. As such, HP now holds all the rights and histories to everything DEC and Compaq. DEC/Compaq provided contract on-site tech support to my current and past two retail firms. HP provides those services now, with the same (if older) DEC and Compaq field techs. I still work with many of them in my current tech support position. I don't know about DG at all, but Honeywell still makes peripherals, including digital cameras, for modern systems. Honeywell's done cameras, through its photographic division, since at least 1959, in association with the Japanese firms Petri and (later) Pentax. They also had flirting relationships with Vivitar and Minolta. I still love my ancient Honeywell/Pentax 35mm and it's Vivitar lens collection. And, while we're asking, does anyone know what happened to Burroughs? As I left the Air Force in 1991, I was working with a cantankerous, already jurassic, cobbled-together system produced by "Convergent Technologies -- an abortive fusion of Burroughs and NCR. It's "banded" 512K memory board nearly neasured a square foot by 1.5" thick, and was banded to *prevent* it from accessing a full 1Mb of memory. And further... Where did DataPoint go? I remember it was absorbed by some other firm, but don't remember by whom. As I remember though, they made a nearly indestructable external modem, back in the 12-2400bps days... Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA From: "Hans B Pufal" > vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > I'm trying to think of all the really old computer companies that are > > still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make computers. DEC and DG > > are gone. So there's HP, IBM, Bull... are there any others left from > > way-back-when? Oh yeah, there's Siemens. And Amdahl's part of Fujitsu > > now. Do they still count? I guess Fujitsu probably counts on its own > > merits. Hitachi and Toshiba left the industry recently, after many years. > > And then there's Unisys, with their recent turn to weird hybrid systems. > > Did I miss anyone? > > Fujitsu certainly counts, the earliest Fujitsu computer on my CCC list > is the FACOM-100 dated 1954 > > NEC has been around since the early days, the NEAC 1101 dates from 1958 > and the currently most powerful machine is the NEC Earth Simulator. > > By comparison, HP is a mere stripling, I list its first computer as the > 2116-A in 1966. > > Then there is Cray, recently revived but still in business. > > -- hbp From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sun Feb 2 07:06:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <02b101c2c7e0$bd3516d0$434a1942@starfury> <01e701c2c7e5$610ee700$0100000a@milkyway> <02f901c2c7e7$5be43350$434a1942@starfury> <00a001c2c892$5d3574c0$0101c80a@p2350> Message-ID: <004301c2caba$b6042d10$434a1942@starfury> I went to the page. There's all kinds of info there, but no like provided access to a copy, freebie or purchase -- including eBay and Amazon.com... Have these games entered the "rare" collection? Cheers... Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomer Gabel" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 01:04 PM Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > The Castle, Island or Lost Mind of Dr. Brain games came out for the IBM PC > (VGA) in the very early '90s ('91, '92 and '95 respectively). Unless there > were other games these were based on, there are no TRS-80 versions. There > was definitely an Amiga version of "Castle" and I vaguely recall an Amiga > version for "Island"; there may also have been an Atari ST version of > "Castle." > > By the way, information of this nature can be found in > http://www.mobygames.com -- a site which I heartily recommend. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Tillman" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:40 AM > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > > Can you tell me/us what they're like? Mama swears by them, but I don't > > recall ever having seen them. And, by "PC," does that mean current or > DOS? > > > > Cheers! > > > > Ed > > San Antonio, Tx, USA > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Philip Pemberton" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 04:25 PM > > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > > > > > I've got the PC VGA versions of "Turbo Science", "Castle of Doctor > Brain" > > > and "Island of Doctor Brain". Disks are in a box somewhere, same for the > > > manuals. > > > > > > Later. > > > -- > > > Phil. From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sun Feb 2 07:14:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: RoadRunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! References: <20030130150111.H9412-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <006201c2cabb$c06bcaa0$434a1942@starfury> No problems here (yet)... I checked all my IPs, and even passtrhoughs (including half of AOL, since TimeWarner owns both the RoadRunner and AOL networks: located via Norton Internet Security // Trace Potential Attack), on dsbl.org, and show them not to be listed. Whuzzup with Nebraska? Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Richman" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 03:10 PM Subject: OT: RoadRunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! > After getting a number of "Are you still alive?" messages from various > friends on the web, and having sent similar messages to them when I > received no response to other e-mails, I made an infuriating discovery. > RoadRunner is listed in several blacklists (dsbl.org for one), and a > number of ISPs are blocking e-mail from their domain (at least from > RoadRunner Nebraska - nebr.rr.com). RoadRunner's response was to fix the > open relay and get delisted, right? Nope. Their response was to state > that they "don't negotiate with blacklists" and promptly _blocked_ all > mail from dsbl.org to RoadRunner users. Hence, I would send e-mails to my > friends, they would be bounced due to the blacklisting, and I would have > no indication of a problem because RR's block would prevent the "bounce" > message from getting back to me. Bastards. At least one person I was > corresponding with is no longer speaking to me because they thought I was > ignoring them. I'm about ready to start a class action suit, although > they probably have something in the fine print that prevents that. GRRR! From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sun Feb 2 07:30:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <20030131155147.37392.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> <3E3B507B.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> <3E3BDC37.2050401@tiac.net> <000701c2ca00$3d3fd740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00c501c2cabe$12f4b820$434a1942@starfury> Lady take them to her breast, and shepherd them home... Strange thing: at 9am US CST, my wife and I were in the car going to pick up the keys to our new house, when our favorite oldies station played the original version of "Major Tom." My wife called my attention to the song, and, of course, the digital clock's right above the radio. We hadn't yet heard anything about Columbia, and the air caster didn't say anything about it, but I did feel an odd [definitely *not* nostalgic] shiver as it played... Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 08:43 AM Subject: Columbia > Alright all you tech heads, dust off your grade school prayers > and say a few for the Shuttle astronauts. No time like the > present to show some respect. > > John A. > news: Columbia lost 16min before landing at ~40+mi. altitude From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Feb 2 07:40:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Expect to see fewer hard drives. In-Reply-To: <000001c2ca35$547b2830$6401a8c0@benchbox> References: <000001c2ca35$547b2830$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > I bought a Sun Sparcstation 4/330 a few years ago. It's hdd was intact > and after breaking the password file (I used a program called 'John the > Ripper' on it), turns out it was an ex-Nasa machine used to model > rockets. Neato find, but dumb of Nasa to let it out without blanking > the drive or even making an attempt to blank it. > > Turns out it's original home was the Marshal Space Flight Center. I > really thought that was NEAT. I guess its going to be interesting to see whats still on the number of ex-NASA systems I bought from a 3rd party ages ago. They were all nearly 100% intact, including the drives, and I expect that they were not wiped either. (And before anyone emails me privately, no, I won't be sharing anything I might find.) -Toth From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sun Feb 2 07:48:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Columbia References: Message-ID: <00e801c2cac0$7aa9b8b0$434a1942@starfury> ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete craft/crew losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still a damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors may say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes closest to beating this record...) Cheers... Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA From: "chris" > >I do feel for the astronaut's families, and in almost equal measure for the > >future of humanity in space. We have *got* to find a better way of getting > >in and out of the gravity well. > > As sick as it seems... these kind of accidents are exactly what brings > about the safer ways of doing things. > > Nearly all safety measures we as society have for everything can be > traced back to someone (or many someones) being injured or killed. > > > -chris > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Feb 2 07:52:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: OT: RoadRunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! In-Reply-To: <20030130150111.H9412-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030202085454.0f576ed2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bill, I've been having similar problems with my RR service (cfl.rr.com). Joe At 03:10 PM 1/30/03 -0600, you wrote: >After getting a number of "Are you still alive?" messages from various >friends on the web, and having sent similar messages to them when I >received no response to other e-mails, I made an infuriating discovery. >RoadRunner is listed in several blacklists (dsbl.org for one), and a >number of ISPs are blocking e-mail from their domain (at least from >RoadRunner Nebraska - nebr.rr.com). RoadRunner's response was to fix the >open relay and get delisted, right? Nope. Their response was to state >that they "don't negotiate with blacklists" and promptly _blocked_ all >mail from dsbl.org to RoadRunner users. Hence, I would send e-mails to my >friends, they would be bounced due to the blacklisting, and I would have >no indication of a problem because RR's block would prevent the "bounce" >message from getting back to me. Bastards. At least one person I was >corresponding with is no longer speaking to me because they thought I was >ignoring them. I'm about ready to start a class action suit, although >they probably have something in the fine print that prevents that. GRRR! From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 2 07:52:04 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <49858.63.224.195.18.1044167911.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > > You can't compile ADA to run on Windows... > That is most assuredly false. Or at least an interesting challenge. From awt at io.com Sun Feb 2 08:31:00 2003 From: awt at io.com (Wayne Talbot) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Looking for a SOL Message-ID: <1044196082.3933.7.camel@gandalf> The first computer that want crazy over was a SOL. It was an S-100 based console that used a DUAL cassette interface. Super. Never could afford one but I did get the original MSA (Microsoft) basic on cassette just in case. I would love to get one now just for nostalgia. If anyone should come across one let me know. awt@io.com From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Sun Feb 2 08:39:00 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Gene Amdahl In-Reply-To: <000001c2cab7$f12bca40$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <3E3CEEBD.3090306@aconit.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030202093421.01e504c0@pop-server> At 07:38 AM 2/2/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I did have the opportunity to meet Gene Amdahl...what a nice guy I met him in the mid sixties in Poughkeepsie during development of the operating system for 360. I was working with Stretch (7030) at the time which was being used to simulate the 360 before we actually had one. From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Sun Feb 2 08:42:00 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <001201c2cab7$b7759ec0$434a1942@starfury> References: <3E3CEEBD.3090306@aconit.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030202093924.00ba9fe0@pop-server> At 06:36 AM 2/2/2003 -0600, you wrote: >And, while we're asking, does anyone know what happened to Burroughs? The Burroughs corporation eventually merged with Sperry Univac and got absorbed into Unisys From martinm at allwest.net Sun Feb 2 08:58:00 2003 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <00e801c2cac0$7aa9b8b0$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <3E3D3150.4040002@allwest.net> Ed Tillman wrote: > Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > closest to beating this record...) Concorde Martin From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Feb 2 09:14:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <00e801c2cac0$7aa9b8b0$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <033f01c2cacd$68682f80$020010ac@k4jcw> Don't get me wrong, I'm a big NASA fan. But if you look at number of flights or flight hours against losses, it's far worse than the commercial airline industry. Granted, it's a lot more complex, but if we're going to sling just numbers around with no adjustment for risk factors, etc... --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Ed Tillman > Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 08:39 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Columbia > > > ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle > program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* > complete craft/crew > losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? > That's still a > damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the > detractors may > say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can > make the same > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner > that comes > closest to beating this record...) > > Cheers... > > Ed > San Antonio, Tx, USA > > > From: "chris" > > > > >I do feel for the astronaut's families, and in almost > equal measure for > the > > >future of humanity in space. We have *got* to find a better way of > getting > > >in and out of the gravity well. > > > > As sick as it seems... these kind of accidents are exactly > what brings > > about the safer ways of doing things. > > > > Nearly all safety measures we as society have for everything can be > > traced back to someone (or many someones) being injured or killed. > > > > > > -chris > > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Feb 2 09:22:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info References: <000201c2ca72$e3ce3620$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <3E3D33D1.3090500@gifford.co.uk> Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > There were two kinds of Aviion (Nova in reverse if you didn't know). Wow! No, I hadn't spotted that! Now I want one even more than I did before. Darn, and the house is full. > There was a Motorola 88k CPU-based version (sometimes multiprocessor), That's the one I want, the 88000 version. A CPU chip that I don't yet have. Anybody know of a source of these in the UK? Or even a Nova, if it's not too big. I did see one of those in the Science Museum, next to the brain scanner exhibit. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Feb 2 09:27:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. References: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> <3243.4.20.168.110.1043717141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3BCDCC.60803@tiac.net> <32994.63.224.195.20.1044134081.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E3D393D.5040905@tiac.net> Not a chance. Take a look at the interface schematics for the 13037 (interface) versus the 12821A. There is near-zero doubt that these need totally different drivers, as MAC disks make a good deal of lower-level information available to the controller than CS/80 does. CS/80 drives use a logical block address very much like a modern ATA drive. The MAC interface sees the drive as raw sectors, tracks and surfaces. It may be that by adding the HPIB option to the MAC controller that some firmware translation takes place that tries to make the 'H' series drive look just like a MAC drive, but from looking at some RTE manuals it seems that 'H' series drives were supported on the 12821A, at least by the standard drivers. I guess what we really need to know here, is did HP support 'H' series drives on a 13037 with the same driver as MAC drives. From what I've read of the 'MAC to H-series upgrade' program, this was not the case. I do know that at one point HP wanted all their MAC disk users to 'upgrade' to 'H' series disks, but the user community did not like this 'upgrade' path due to the loss of performance and system reconfiguration issues. HP's response seems to be the adoption of CS/80 and the 12821A which on paper had a slightly higher data transfer rate than MAC disks. I would have expected any drive on a 13037 to look, well, like a 13037 drive, but I'm getting a very different impression from the RTE documentation and user community publications. Hopefully I'm wrong here, I do realize it would make life easier for you if I am. Eric Smith wrote: >Bob Shannon wrote: > >>I would think the CPU would have to use totally different drivers. >> >>Talking to the 12821A interface is TOTALLY different than talking to the >> 13037 interface board from >>the I/O backplane perspective. >> > >I know that. I was asking whether they'd look the same to the computer if >they were both plugged onto a 13037. I suspect the answer is yes, because >all drives plugged onto a 13037 probably look to the host like MAC drives >even if the 13037-to-drive interface is actually HPIB. Part of the point >of the 13037 MAC controller was to provide some measure of device- >independence. From thompson at new.rr.com Sun Feb 2 09:44:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Expect to see fewer hard drives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > > > I bought a Sun Sparcstation 4/330 a few years ago. It's hdd was intact > > and after breaking the password file (I used a program called 'John the snip > > Turns out it's original home was the Marshal Space Flight Center. I > > really thought that was NEAT. I bought some DSSI drives on Ebay a while back. Some of them had the property tax oracle database of a midsize midwest US city in it, but the interesting ones had Word Perfect for VMS files used by the city's police department. It had various police reports for hookers, stolen credit cards and cop-cop grievances on it. Good thing DSSI drives have the built in firmware erase function, too bad no one used it until I got the drive. The seller might have done a VMS INIT/NOERASE on the drive. I looked at the files with Ultrix and hence did not have the ability to read FILES 11. -- From hansp at aconit.org Sun Feb 2 09:47:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: OT re: Columbia (long diatribe) References: <033f01c2cacd$68682f80$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3E3D3CE7.8000703@aconit.org> J.C.Wren wrote: > Don't get me wrong, I'm a big NASA fan. As am I. > But if you look at number of > flights or flight hours against losses, it's far worse than the commercial > airline industry. Granted, it's a lot more complex, but if we're going to > sling just numbers around with no adjustment for risk factors, etc... Numbers, numbers. For a while there on the BBC website they were citing a failure rate of 2 per 113 as being equivalent to not surviving a month if you took your car to and from work every day. They (later) added that taking into account hours flown, space-flight is about 4 times riskier than commercial flying, and taking account miles travelled, space flight is the safest means of transport. So which is it? Of course it is risky, always will be, but so if crossing the road to catch a bus. We live is a world of risk. I wonder how many pioneering aviators were killed in the first 40 years of flying, that is from 1903 to 1943 - several hundred I would imagine (anyone know of the figures). Was that too high a cost for the (possibly debatable) benefits of commercial flying today. The difference is, I think, the media. Whereas pioneering aviators who died were reported relativly anonymously in newspapers, days or weeks later, today we have instant replays of almost the entire lives of each crew-member and all their families the same morning. It makes it a much more personal affair and people react emotionally. Don't get me wrong, I feel of the families who lost ther loved ones yesterday, but it stops there. Those brave astronauts knew the risks, accepted them willingly, and performed magnificently. Given half a chance I would fly the shuttle tomorrow. What bothers me is the possibility that NASA will be forced to quit on manned spaceflight and the nay-sayers will (finally) manage to kill a project they see as a waste of money and effort. The shuttle itself as originally designed was a fully resusable vehicle. Budget cutbacks and naysayers resulted in the hybrid version we know (and love) today. How much safer (and in the long run cheaper) would that original design have been? Sorry for the rant, but I needed to get it off my chest. Normal programs will resume shortly...... -- hbp From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Feb 2 09:48:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <00c501c2cabe$12f4b820$434a1942@starfury> from Ed Tillman at "Feb 2, 3 07:22:02 am" Message-ID: <200302021555.HAA27332@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Strange thing: at 9am US CST, my wife and I were in the car going to pick > up the keys to our new house, when our favorite oldies station played the > original version of "Major Tom." My wife called my attention to the song, > and, of course, the digital clock's right above the radio. We hadn't yet > heard anything about Columbia, and the air caster didn't say anything about > it, but I did feel an odd [definitely *not* nostalgic] shiver as it > played... It certainly makes an oddly appropriate requiem ... :-/ -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- /etc/motd: /earth is 98% full. please delete anyone you can. --------------- From knightstalkerbob at netscape.net Sun Feb 2 09:59:01 2003 From: knightstalkerbob at netscape.net (Bob Mason) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? Message-ID: <2A035045.20EA954B.CF1A260E@netscape.net> "TeoZ" wrote: >Hi, > >Anybody here using Amiga 500's? > Yes, I have two of them, both still operational. -- Bob Mason 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, 'ME, 128meg, 20Gig & 40Gig, flatbed. Heathkit H-89A, 64K RAM, hard and soft-sectored floppies, SigmaSoft and Systems 256K RAM Drive/Print Spooler/Graphics board HDOS 2 & CP/M 2.2.03/2.2.04 From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 2 10:30:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Ada (was Re: Columbia) In-Reply-To: <10302020931.ZM11256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>; from pete@dunnington.u-net.com on Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 01:31:43 %z References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave> <20030201162414.A10396@Erwin> <10302020931.ZM11256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20030202071153.C10396@Erwin> On 2003.02.02 01:31 pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > On Feb 1, 16:24, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > One thing about Ada that I found rather interesting was mention of > an > > OS written in Great Britain in the early 80's. It was written in > Ada > > and ran on the PDP-11. > > Probably written by CompSci staff at York. They certainly wrote a > compiler and an environment to support it. I suspect it was written entirely by them, but am not sure, as I've only read a few brief parts of the book. It would be interesting to know if the code still exists, and could be made publically available as they used PDP-11/23's, one with a RP02 clone, the other with a RL02 and floppy. It should be fairly easy to put together the HW to run the RL02 config (if the RP02 clone config isn't a requirement). Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 2 10:48:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Ada (was Re: Columbia) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030202103742.018eede0@slave>; from avickers@solutionengineers.com on Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 02:43:18 %z References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave> <20030201162414.A10396@Erwin> <5.1.0.14.2.20030202103742.018eede0@slave> Message-ID: <20030202072957.E10396@Erwin> On 2003.02.02 02:43 Adrian Vickers wrote: > At 00:24 02/02/2003, you wrote: > >Unless you're using platform specific code, Ada is *very* > >transportable. > > The trouble being, of course, that almost everything *is* platform > specific. That's not a criticism of Ada per se; most "portable" code > suffers on different platforms, especially when windowing environments > are > in use. Mind you, when Linux and X become the defacto industry > standard > which every machine runs, portability issues will be largely a thing > of the > past... I hope. There is apparently a cross-platform GUI toolkit now based, I believe on GTK. I've not tried it yet, as I'm not to the point I'm ready to mess with GUI's with Ada (I've only done GUI programming on the Mac). BTW, Linux is good for some things, but in a lot of ways, it's not much better than MS Windows (though as I type this I am burning a set of Red Hat CD's). Personally I think the best use for Linux is cheap semi-intelligent desktop terminals. > >One thing about Ada that I found rather interesting was mention of an > >OS written in Great Britain in the early 80's. It was written in Ada > >and ran on the PDP-11. > > An OS written in Ada? Any idea what it was called? PULSE. The development was apparently done on the VAX, and cross-compiled for the PDP-11/23. The book in question is "PULSE: An Ada-based Distributed Operating System". Zane From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Feb 2 10:51:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <00e801c2cac0$7aa9b8b0$434a1942@starfury> <3E3D3150.4040002@allwest.net> Message-ID: <3E3D4B43.6090205@jetnet.ab.ca> Martin Marshall wrote: > Ed Tillman wrote: > >> Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same >> claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes >> closest to beating this record...) > Concorde And then it was not the plane but the tires. Mind you both the shuttle and Concorde are about the same era of techology, time for a update on both. Ben. PS. Bad luck can happen anywhere, I read somewhere about a fire in a plane and several lives were lost and the plane was parked on the ground. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Feb 2 10:53:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <20030131144635.91896.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, lee courtney wrote: > Yes, very much worth rescuing. Very nice 1970's era 16 bit > minicomputer. There are many of these machines in use in all kinds of > embedded and real-time applications. > > If you can't find anyone interested in the Seattle area and its > running, consider donating it to a local high school computer club. BUT ONLY IF THEY'RE CLUEFUL! Or have someone who is, giving them some guidance. The odds of anyone of highschool age, at this point in time, appreciating such a system are quite slim. The 15-18 yr olds of today were born around 1985-1988 (gah!), so most of them--even the computer savvy ones-- probably didn't even become cognizant of different computer types until at least the early 1990s. -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Feb 2 10:58:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I'm trying to think of all the really old computer companies that are > still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make computers. DEC and DG > are gone. So there's HP, IBM, Bull... are there any others left from > way-back-when? Oh yeah, there's Siemens. And Amdahl's part of Fujitsu > now. Do they still count? I guess Fujitsu probably counts on its own > merits. Hitachi and Toshiba left the industry recently, after many years. > And then there's Unisys, with their recent turn to weird hybrid systems. > Did I miss anyone? Sure... SGI and Sun. -brian. From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 11:09:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info In-Reply-To: <3E3D33D1.3090500@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <000e01c2cadd$a9044e10$6401a8c0@benchbox> Not in Europe unfortunately, but I know that Computer Parts Barn has a perfect Nova 4 in stock. At least he did a couple of years ago. But it is pretty darn big. Multiple 19" racks with drives and tape decks etc. Nice blue Nova logos on it. I helped get it off the trailer when it came in. He has some older Nova's. I'm thinking of one in particular that is a desktop-style machine, but IIRC, that one is partial. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Honniball Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 10:06 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: aviion 4000 info Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > There were two kinds of Aviion (Nova in reverse if you didn't know). Wow! No, I hadn't spotted that! Now I want one even more than I did before. Darn, and the house is full. > There was a Motorola 88k CPU-based version (sometimes multiprocessor), That's the one I want, the 88000 version. A CPU chip that I don't yet have. Anybody know of a source of these in the UK? Or even a Nova, if it's not too big. I did see one of those in the Science Museum, next to the brain scanner exhibit. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From loedman1 at juno.com Sun Feb 2 11:17:44 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: OT: Roadrunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! From: Bill Richman Message-ID: <20030202.090905.-104659.0.loedman1@juno.com> >RoadRunner Nebraska - nebr.rr.com). RoadRunner's response was to fix the >open relay and get delisted, right? Nope. Their response was to state >that they "don't negotiate with blacklists" and promptly _blocked_ all Good old Roadrunner, the source of some of the most annoying pornographic spam in my Inbox, Sally and the Saint Bernard, Sex with my Mom and so on. Complaints are ignored and the deluge of crap continues Rich Stephenson California From spedraja at mail.ono.es Sun Feb 2 11:18:28 2003 From: spedraja at mail.ono.es (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <000001c2ca59$1b04e180$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> <004701c2ca88$c9f90b60$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <007601c2ca23$f901b520$0402a8c0@cavorita.net> Here in Spain, one Astrophisycs engineer that worked in NASA installations in Robledo de Chavela (Madrid) and the Apollo project, comment about the accident these matters: * He discard completely any kind of terrorist act * During the startup of mission, TV cameras saw how the cover of the solid combustible go down and impact against one of the wings. In opinion of this specialist, is very possible that some of the ceramic pieces of the wing (very critical and very small) could be damaged. * NASA saw this later in the TV videos and some engineers did an evaluation of the possible damages and its impact in the re-entry in the atmosphere. and conclude that, in appeareance, it would be possible without problems. * Seconds before the explossion, the temperature sensors of the left wing stopped the transmission. This occurs sometimes cause of high temperatures. The speculation is this: the damaged ceramic pieces stop in its effectivity and the hot enter inside the spaceship. Explosion. About the evaluation of the NASA engineers about the possible damage in the eing, and how could be possible that some external covers could be broken in the jump to the space of the ship... Well, it`s a very delicate matter. Would you speak to the astronauts about possible problems in the re-entry of the ship if you would know it ? I must clear: the ceramic pieces can`t be replaced in space (actually), and all the Space Shuttle ships go to the garage after flight to substitute the damaged ceramic pieces, using some special glue to manage it. With this system, is very possible that some covers could suffer cause of the vibrations of the startup, break and go down. With independence of this, my sincere condolences: some of us admire the space career of the USA, consider it an inversion in the future of all the mankind, and some like me consider that Europe should be joining more efforts with the USA that actually in this matter. This is the country that we admire. And some of us would be very happy to see (and even contribute in our own countries with our own taxes) how some of the militar costs would be derived to the space conquest. Greetings Sergio From vance at neurotica.com Sun Feb 2 11:18:32 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <00a001c2c892$5d3574c0$0101c80a@p2350> Message-ID: The Castle of Dr. Brain (VGA) was a remake of a much earlier version. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Tomer Gabel wrote: > The Castle, Island or Lost Mind of Dr. Brain games came out for the IBM PC > (VGA) in the very early '90s ('91, '92 and '95 respectively). Unless there > were other games these were based on, there are no TRS-80 versions. There > was definitely an Amiga version of "Castle" and I vaguely recall an Amiga > version for "Island"; there may also have been an Atari ST version of > "Castle." > > By the way, information of this nature can be found in > http://www.mobygames.com -- a site which I heartily recommend. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Tillman" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:40 AM > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > > Can you tell me/us what they're like? Mama swears by them, but I don't > > recall ever having seen them. And, by "PC," does that mean current or > DOS? > > > > Cheers! > > > > Ed > > San Antonio, Tx, USA > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Philip Pemberton" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 04:25 PM > > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > > > > > I've got the PC VGA versions of "Turbo Science", "Castle of Doctor > Brain" > > > and "Island of Doctor Brain". Disks are in a box somewhere, same for the > > > manuals. > > > > > > Later. > > > -- > > > Phil. From vance at neurotica.com Sun Feb 2 11:18:36 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: OT: RoadRunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! In-Reply-To: <20030130150111.H9412-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: Time to find a new ISP, I think. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Bill Richman wrote: > After getting a number of "Are you still alive?" messages from various > friends on the web, and having sent similar messages to them when I > received no response to other e-mails, I made an infuriating discovery. > RoadRunner is listed in several blacklists (dsbl.org for one), and a > number of ISPs are blocking e-mail from their domain (at least from > RoadRunner Nebraska - nebr.rr.com). RoadRunner's response was to fix the > open relay and get delisted, right? Nope. Their response was to state > that they "don't negotiate with blacklists" and promptly _blocked_ all > mail from dsbl.org to RoadRunner users. Hence, I would send e-mails to my > friends, they would be bounced due to the blacklisting, and I would have > no indication of a problem because RR's block would prevent the "bounce" > message from getting back to me. Bastards. At least one person I was > corresponding with is no longer speaking to me because they thought I was > ignoring them. I'm about ready to start a class action suit, although > they probably have something in the fine print that prevents that. GRRR! From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 2 11:18:41 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list In-Reply-To: <004601c2c827$cc2c4bd0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Stuart Johnson > Sent: 30 January 2003 06:21 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list > > Boy, I would sure like to have a copies of the Infoserver VXT, > Infoserver1000, and the Infoserver Disk and Tape Access CD's! As > a matter of > fact, should some kind person loan them to me I would be amenable > to making > some copies of these CD's or most any other appropriate (owned by the > lendor) CD to show my appreciation I'd even be happy with an ISO or > equivalent - heck, I just easy to please! I'm hoping I'll be able to use EasyCD Creator to do bit by bit backups of some of the CDs so I'll let you know how I get on, assuming my burner is behaving itself - it has a habit of going offline and the only thing that brings it back is a power cycle which takes bloody ages on this machine since it's all UltraSCSI. Having said that it doesn't take as long as a Compaq Proliant ML370 :) > OT: What is the VXT Host Software(VAX)? Something to allow loading a VXT > from a VAX instead of from an Infoserver? Yep. You needed a VXT with a minimum of 10mb RAM from what I remember, which is why I never played with it as all our VXTs had 4mb. I wish I'd saved more of them now but I only had room for 1 :( > You have a fine collection of goodies there! Thank my ex-ex-company for binning the whole lot when it suddenly became 'legacy' and they started chasing the M$oft dangling carrot! cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 2 11:18:44 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: DEC RZ28 2gb drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Paul Thompson > Sent: 30 January 2003 17:37 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DEC RZ28 2gb drive > > > RZDISK from the Compaq VMS freeware CD will low level format among other > things. > Brilliant! Thanks Paul. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From vance at neurotica.com Sun Feb 2 11:18:47 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <001201c2cab7$b7759ec0$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Ed Tillman wrote: > Actually, DEC is still somewhat around -- it was absorbed into Compaq in > 1997, and, of course, Compaq was absorbed into HP last year. As such, > HP now holds all the rights and histories to everything DEC and Compaq. > DEC/Compaq provided contract on-site tech support to my current and past > two retail firms. HP provides those services now, with the same (if > older) DEC and Compaq field techs. I still work with many of them in my > current tech support position. But DEC as a company is long gone. I am *well* aware of what happened with the DEC -> Compaq -> HP thing. > I don't know about DG at all, but Honeywell still makes peripherals, > including digital cameras, for modern systems. Honeywell's done > cameras, through its photographic division, since at least 1959, in > association with the Japanese firms Petri and (later) Pentax. They also > had flirting relationships with Vivitar and Minolta. I still love my > ancient Honeywell/Pentax 35mm and it's Vivitar lens collection. This doesn't count. > And, while we're asking, does anyone know what happened to Burroughs? > As I left the Air Force in 1991, I was working with a cantankerous, > already jurassic, cobbled-together system produced by "Convergent > Technologies -- an abortive fusion of Burroughs and NCR. It's "banded" > 512K memory board nearly neasured a square foot by 1.5" thick, and was > banded to *prevent* it from accessing a full 1Mb of memory. Burroughs and Sperry merged to form Unisys. Peace... Sridhar From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 2 11:18:51 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell were the... In-Reply-To: <10301310819.ZM9653@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 30, 20:44, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > > Please add to the list your personal experience of computers sales. > > If you didn't sell it don't add it. Sold: (multiples of) MicroPDP 11/23, 53 & 73 (RT/11 & MicroRSX) MicroVAX 2000 (all VAXen are VMS) VAX 11/750 VAX 3100-xx (10 to 96) & VAXstation 3100 & 4000VLC VAX 4000-100 & 105a VAX 4000-200 VAX 4000-500 (including the one that's now in the collection) VAX 6640 VAX 7720 VAX 8500 VAX 8550 Multia (one of which I got back recently) Alpha AXP 150 (WindowsNT) Alpha 2000-300 (Unix) Alpha 3000-300LX Alpha 3000-400 & 600 Alpha 4710 & 4720 Alpha 2100 (sable) Alpha 2000 (demi-sable) Alpha 4000 (rawhide, plus all of the below are either VMS or Unix. I sold ONE 4000 running NT :o)) Alpha 4100 Alpha DS10 Alpha DS20 (including the massively undersold Oracle RAC) Alpha ES40 Alpha GS40 (only the 1, but what the hell; I built and installed it too) Alpha ES45 Worked on: (apart from the machines above, which I installed most of too apart from the Big Iron) PDP 11/03 (they only binned it last year without telling me :( It was the 'baby' 03) PDP 11/23 (RSX 4.4) PDP 11/44 (RSX 4.4) MicroPDPs VAX 11/730 VAX 11/750 Many other VAXen and Alphas that I can't remember - 16 years is a long time to work for a VAR! Alpha 4000 'white boxes' that were crippled to only run NT, 2 of which I've been told I can have for the museum as long as I go and get them! cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 2 11:18:54 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Cool external FD by Nintendo In-Reply-To: <012801c2c990$f71e31e0$420add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Keys > Sent: 01 February 2003 01:27 > To: cctalk@classiccmp > Subject: Cool external FD by Nintendo > > > Today at the thrift I found a red case/black face/yellow button > external 3.5 > FD by Nintendo model HVC-022. Most of the writing on it is in Japanese. It > was missing the ac adapter and cable. Copyright date on it is 1985. Anyone > else have one of these? I haven't got one myself but I know someone who had one in the 80s; it was part of the Famicom Disk System released in 1986. This web page contains everything you need to know :) http://nesworld.parodius.com/famidisk.htm cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 2 11:18:58 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C9C5@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen > Sent: 30 January 2003 11:40 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list > > Space is not an issue (the current array is 5x180G) and neither is > bandwidth. If we can work something out (like you making ISO image > copies of the CD, and making TDF dumps of the tapes) we can either > ftp them over, or i can pay for you shipping a tape with em... Yep, that's the plan, and now that I can hopefully do a low level format on my dodgy RZ28 I can build a system to do it with; failing that I'll have to rob one of my Alphas of its disks :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 2 11:19:02 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: DEC RZ28 2gb drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Brian Chase > Sent: 30 January 2003 05:03 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DEC RZ28 2gb drive > > On the VAXstation 3100s and early MicroVAX 3100s, I believe "TEST 75" at > the console prompt ">>>" drops you into a low level formatter. There's > also a floppy formatter somewhere nearby--I think it was TEST 74 or > TEST 76. I'm not sure if these work in later model MicroVAX 3100s like > yours, so your mileage may vary. Also, it takes a /long/ time to run on > large disks; one of my 4GB SCSI drives took a number of hours. True, I'd forgotten about TEST 75 (and TEST 50 for a full hardware scan). I haven't got the docs for the 3100-90, just the 40/80, so I'll try the freeware disk for the RZ utility first, then stuff from the dead sergeant prompt next.... cheers! -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 2 11:19:05 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: DEC RZ28 2gb drive In-Reply-To: <20030130104957.I1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jochen Kunz > Sent: 30 January 2003 09:50 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DEC RZ28 2gb drive > > You can use sformat to reformat, repair and verify SCSI disks. (If you > have a Unix system to run sformat on.) I have, but I'll save that for a last resort. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 2 11:19:10 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list In-Reply-To: <200301301908.h0UJ8sBP015054@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Eric Dittman > Sent: 30 January 2003 19:09 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list > > The Infoserver VXT and 1000 images are on the OpenVMS Freeware disks > and downloadable from the Compaq/HP website, but the disk > and tape access aren't, so I'd like to see them. No problem. > I'm also interested in the Tru64 layered products CDs, if > they are recent. I've got some pretty recent ones but I left all the bang up to date ones in the old office; I might be able to sneak them out under the nose of the liquidator :( cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From vance at neurotica.com Sun Feb 2 11:19:13 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:26 2005 Subject: Something for all you PS/2 fans Message-ID: Anyone want PS/2 Mod 95's? Apparently some of them have Type-IV (! -- expensive) complexes. Peace... Sridhar From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 2 11:21:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <004701c2c890$9d50a8b0$0101c80a@p2350> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Tomer Gabel wrote: > LSL wasn't a "SoftPorn ripoff" as such -- it was definitely inspired by the > game, and in fact, the Leisure Suit Larry Collection Series (boxed set of > the first 6 games in all versions) INCLUDES the PC version of SoftPorn. > Al Lowe (the person behind the LSL series, originally a school teacher - > would you believe that!) has fully acknowledged that LSL was inspired by > SoftPorn. Well, the LSL story so closely followed that of SoftPorn that I would say it was more than merely "inspired". Also, that he was a school teacher is not that surprising. Ron Jeremy, who is a big, ugly, hairy porn star that has been in the business for probably over two decades now and has started to spill over into mainstream TV (usually in comedic roles) used to be a high school teacher. I guess from this small sample we can conclude that all male high school teachers are perverts ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 2 11:23:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: OT: RoadRunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! In-Reply-To: <20030130150111.H9412-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Bill Richman wrote: > After getting a number of "Are you still alive?" messages from various > friends on the web, and having sent similar messages to them when I > received no response to other e-mails, I made an infuriating discovery. > RoadRunner is listed in several blacklists (dsbl.org for one), and a > number of ISPs are blocking e-mail from their domain (at least from > RoadRunner Nebraska - nebr.rr.com). RoadRunner's response was to fix the > open relay and get delisted, right? Nope. Their response was to state > that they "don't negotiate with blacklists" and promptly _blocked_ all > mail from dsbl.org to RoadRunner users. Hence, I would send e-mails to > my friends, they would be bounced due to the blacklisting, and I would > have no indication of a problem because RR's block would prevent the > "bounce" message from getting back to me. Bastards. At least one person > I was corresponding with is no longer speaking to me because they > thought I was ignoring them. I'm about ready to start a class action > suit, although they probably have something in the fine print that > prevents that. GRRR! Truly annoying. I would jump ship to another provider (if possible, I realize this is Nebraska we are talking about ;) and send them a letter letting them know why. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dancohoe at oxford.net Sun Feb 2 11:26:01 2003 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002e01c2cadf$da0e4040$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Brian Chase > Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:51 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: HP2100 > > > On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, lee courtney wrote: > > > Yes, very much worth rescuing. Very nice 1970's era 16 bit > > minicomputer. There are many of these machines in use in > all kinds of > > embedded and real-time applications. > > > > If you can't find anyone interested in the Seattle area and its > > running, consider donating it to a local high school computer club. > > BUT ONLY IF THEY'RE CLUEFUL! Or have someone who is, giving them some > guidance. > > The odds of anyone of highschool age, at this point in time, > appreciating > such a system are quite slim. The 15-18 yr olds of today were born > around 1985-1988 (gah!), so most of them--even the computer > savvy ones-- > probably didn't even become cognizant of different computer > types until > at least the early 1990s. > > -brian. I agree, you need to find someway to keep track of it to make sure it's appreciated and protected. About 6 months ago I got a lead on a PDP-8 donated by a local industry to a high school. The final story was: When the teacher who had the interest retired the next year.. this is 2001, his replacement offered it to the students to clean up the space it was taking. A student hauled it home, then, because there wasn't much he could do with it put out for scrap collection. Dan Cohoe From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Feb 2 11:27:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Something for all you PS/2 fans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200302020924160013.4A24B180@192.168.42.129> Good morning, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 02-Feb-03 at 09:43 vance@neurotica.com wrote: >Anyone want PS/2 Mod 95's? Apparently some of them have Type-IV (! -- >expensive) complexes. Hmmmm! I may well be interested. Where might these wondrous machines be found? Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 2 11:31:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <00e801c2cac0$7aa9b8b0$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Ed Tillman wrote: > ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle > program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete craft/crew > losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still a > damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors may > say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > closest to beating this record...) Southwest Airlines. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Feb 2 11:34:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Space Shuttle Disaster In-Reply-To: <20030202092802.21135.74392.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030202173123.71245.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> I believe that the Colombia had recently been totally refurbished stem to stern... New Avionics, new wiring, crew compartment, the works... NASA is trying to upgrade and extend the life of the Shuttle fleet rather than pushing for a replacement. I think it's time an X Program or two were undertaken to create an SSTO replacement for the shuttle. Check out Jerry Pournelle's Site http://www.jerrypournelle.com (and if you like it, please become a member... Let's encourage good work like his..), for some cogent discussions of this issue... All sorts of wacky stuff is flying around about the cause. Someone sent me an e-mail about a terrorist with a laser weapon... Geez! What bugs me about it, beyond the obvious... Is that Islamic Extremests will take this disaster and interpret it to mean that God has spoken against the U.S. and Israel, and that this disaster is an omen. Let's wait and see, but I'm sure many in that crowd were jumping with glee over this, and taking this as a sign that "Allah" was on their side. A sad interpretation of a Sadder event. I'd like to see Burt Rutan on an X Project to develop a replacement for the shuttle. I'd bet if anyone could do it, he could get something cheaper and better developed in a few years easily... And the temporary solution is to build a few more new shuttles and ground the older ones. It's obvious to me, that age and metal stress played some part in this disaster, and it's probably better to ground the current fleet and fly all new machines until replacements can be designed, tested and built... Al From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 11:34:08 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info In-Reply-To: <3E3D33D1.3090500@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <000f01c2cae1$30595b50$6401a8c0@benchbox> I can relate. I got really hot and bothered when I got my MV. I took five months of solid after-work labor to bring it back to life. It is a close relative of the Eagle machine that was the basis for Tracy Kidder's Pulitzer prize winner 'Soul of a New Machine' which I read from the camp library in Okinawa. Man, I scoured the Earth for install tapes. I eventually found them and strangely only four miles from my home in NC. I had to buy a 9track drive and rig it to the MV, but it worked. DG has a rich history. I'm sorry it has fallen into such a hole. They are a part of EMC now. EMC bought them for their disk array technology. No more DG computers that I'm aware of after that. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Honniball Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 10:06 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: aviion 4000 info Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > There were two kinds of Aviion (Nova in reverse if you didn't know). Wow! No, I hadn't spotted that! Now I want one even more than I did before. Darn, and the house is full. > There was a Motorola 88k CPU-based version (sometimes multiprocessor), That's the one I want, the 88000 version. A CPU chip that I don't yet have. Anybody know of a source of these in the UK? Or even a Nova, if it's not too big. I did see one of those in the Science Museum, next to the brain scanner exhibit. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 2 11:35:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Expect to see fewer hard drives. In-Reply-To: <000301c2ca73$9dc55400$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <20030202173209.39748.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Jeffrey S. Worley" wrote: > It wouldn't let me. The os is Solaris 2.4. When I booted single-user I > still had to feed it the root P/W which I didn't have. Typically for those, you boot a distro CD and mount the root partition and edit the shadow file. Mind you, you don't need the exact version of Solaris, just something that will run on your machine. Alternatively, if you have more than one Solaris box, you can mount the root drive in the other machine, mount, edit, etc. > ...I broke the machine by running Jack on the...then set the prom > date way back... Interesting approach. I must say that I would never have thought of it. -ethan From mross666 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 2 11:36:00 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: IBM Series/1 Message-ID: Hi, May have a line on one of those... I know they're interesting, I've heard they have something resembling an operator panel, but I've never actually seen one and I can't find any pics on the web... can anybody point me to some? Thanks Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From thompson at new.rr.com Sun Feb 2 11:44:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: OT: RoadRunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Truly annoying. I would jump ship to another provider (if possible, I > realize this is Nebraska we are talking about ;) and send them a letter > letting them know why. > Or switch to another (free?) email provider but stay with roadrunner and run a bandwidth hog GNUtella server :-) From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 11:46:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Space Shuttle Disaster In-Reply-To: <20030202173123.71245.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001001c2cae2$d03af6a0$6401a8c0@benchbox> My understanding is that the shuttles are so old that some of the tooling is no longer around. They have trouble getting the computers serviced because they are ancient and even their media is hard to find. I'd sure like to see a new machine flying. There are some great concepts for them but no one will out with the cash to build them. Maybe this tragedy will be the 'pin that impelled the steel'. That would be a fitting tribute. Build a brand-new ssto rocketship and name it 'Columbia'. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Hartman Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 12:31 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Space Shuttle Disaster I believe that the Colombia had recently been totally refurbished stem to stern... New Avionics, new wiring, crew compartment, the works... NASA is trying to upgrade and extend the life of the Shuttle fleet rather than pushing for a replacement. I think it's time an X Program or two were undertaken to create an SSTO replacement for the shuttle. Check out Jerry Pournelle's Site http://www.jerrypournelle.com (and if you like it, please become a member... Let's encourage good work like his..), for some cogent discussions of this issue... All sorts of wacky stuff is flying around about the cause. Someone sent me an e-mail about a terrorist with a laser weapon... Geez! What bugs me about it, beyond the obvious... Is that Islamic Extremests will take this disaster and interpret it to mean that God has spoken against the U.S. and Israel, and that this disaster is an omen. Let's wait and see, but I'm sure many in that crowd were jumping with glee over this, and taking this as a sign that "Allah" was on their side. A sad interpretation of a Sadder event. I'd like to see Burt Rutan on an X Project to develop a replacement for the shuttle. I'd bet if anyone could do it, he could get something cheaper and better developed in a few years easily... And the temporary solution is to build a few more new shuttles and ground the older ones. It's obvious to me, that age and metal stress played some part in this disaster, and it's probably better to ground the current fleet and fly all new machines until replacements can be designed, tested and built... Al From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 2 11:46:04 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: OT: RoadRunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! Message-ID: <0302021742.AA24141@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Bill Richman wrote: > RoadRunner's response was to fix the > open relay and get delisted, right? Nope. Their response was to state > that they "don't negotiate with blacklists" and promptly _blocked_ all > mail from dsbl.org to RoadRunner users. I side with and fully support RoadRunner. Open relays are a very important Classic Computing feature, and every true ClassicCmper must support them. > I'm about ready to start a class action suit, although > they probably have something in the fine print that prevents that. GRRR! The class action suit should of course be against the blockers. We really need a law that guarantees penalties for spamblockers 10 times greater than those for spammers. If you send spam, you get 1 year in prison. If you assault an open relay operator, mangle E-mail addresses, or do anything else to desecrate the Classic Computing tradition, you should get 10 years in prison. If a spammer gets 5 years in prison, spamblockers must get 50 years. -- Michael Sokolov Programletarian Freedom Fighter International Free Computing Task Force Let the Source be with you Programletarians of the world, unite! From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 2 11:57:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? In-Reply-To: <000a01c2ca5d$0a4a5c90$0200fea9@burner> Message-ID: <20030202175440.43277.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- teo zenios wrote: > I thaught most if not all were SCSI hd's > > http://www.amiga-society.de/ahwbook/scsi.html > > The amiga A590 used a rare XT IDE drive but allowed use of scsi using a > different connector. There was at least one expansion that was IDE - the IVS Trumpcard, perhaps? Most were SCSI. One real problem going forward with 68K Amiga hardware is the limitation of 4GB per *device* (not partition). The newest ROMs, AFAIK, accomodate larger sizes, but, much like the rest of the computing world, when they were young, drives grew vast beyond initial expectations. Certainly in 1983-1985, drives over 4GB were not a worry (back when DOS was struggling with 30MB partitions). As for SCSI reliability in Amiga enclosures, I wouldn't be surprised if a) they were dodgy drives to begin with (Connor, Kalok, etc.), or b) there was insufficient cooling. I always did my own enclosures for external Amiga drives (recycled older boxes were larger, but much cheaper) and never had a problem. -ethan From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Sun Feb 2 12:12:00 2003 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives References: <3E3C09F0.A186FDDE@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3E3D5E53.4050300@pacbell.net> Doug Coward wrote: >So now I'm thinking about how hard it would be to >create a cartridge for say - the C64 that has a USB >port and an EPROM on it. The EPROM would have routines >that wedge into the Kernal disk routines on boot. (And >of course they would bypassing the serial routines) Plus >routines to translate disk commands to read and write >files. > While USB sounds like a nice idea it would probably be serious overkill. More practical would be to add an IDE disk interface which, with minimal work, could also interface to a Compact Flash memory card. You wouldn't get hot-plug capability but would probably do most of what you want. Check out: http://members.elysium.pl/ytm/html/ciaide.html for various ideas on interfacing IDE devices to the C64 Note that, while a "real" IDE interface requires a 16 bit data path (or, in the case of an 8 bit system, additional latches to handle the upper 8 bits of data) it's only the actual data register that is 16 bits wide, so you *can* greatly simplify the interface if you don't mind wasting half the capacity of your storage device (ie you only use the low byte in the 16 bit data transfers). The downside of this, apart from wasting 50% of the storage, is that the data is stored in every other byte on the media making interchange with other systems a problem. From cb at mythtech.net Sun Feb 2 12:13:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games Message-ID: >Speaking of, does anyone remember the Artworx Strip Poker games? They >were available in the beginning for Apple II, PC, Commodore 64, and Atari, >but the later games were available only for PC. I really liked those >games. Yup, I have a copy for the Apple II. But I only have the one disk, so I only have the two girls that come with it. I never found other disks, but I seem to recall an option to insert disks of other girls. I also remember being a horny kid and taking photos of the screen after I beat the girls. Then forgot about it, sent the film in to be developed. I picked it up one afternoon with my father, and the guy at the lab said there was no charge because none of the pictures came out. My father and I sat in the car looking at the negatives trying to figure out what they were, when I realized what it was I was looking at and freaked. Nothing like trying to convince your father to stop analyzing them before he too figures out what it is he is looking at. -chris From dittman at dittman.net Sun Feb 2 12:25:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Feb 02, 2003 09:25:16 AM Message-ID: <200302021822.h12IMZlq025207@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle > > program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete craft/crew > > losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still a > > damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors may > > say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > > closest to beating this record...) > > Southwest Airlines. Southwest Airlines is an airline, not airliner. He was asking for a model of passenger airplane. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From cb at mythtech.net Sun Feb 2 12:30:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia Message-ID: >(Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes >closest to beating this record...) Quantas? (based entirely off "Rain Man" making the claim that Quantas has never had a crash) :-) -chris From computermuseum at pandora.be Sun Feb 2 12:30:05 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <200302021822.h12IMZlq025207@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: Columbia.. I regret it happened ... But is this not a classic-computer talk-group? I don't want to receive such e-mails anymore... These are far off-topic... Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Eric Dittman Verzonden: zondag 2 februari 2003 19:23 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: Columbia > > ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle > > program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete craft/crew > > losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still a > > damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors may > > say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > > closest to beating this record...) > > Southwest Airlines. Southwest Airlines is an airline, not airliner. He was asking for a model of passenger airplane. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From cb at mythtech.net Sun Feb 2 12:38:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games Message-ID: >Also, that he was a school teacher is not that surprising. Ron Jeremy, >who is a big, ugly, hairy porn star that has been in the business for >probably over two decades now and has started to spill over into >mainstream TV (usually in comedic roles) used to be a high school teacher. He also won a Mr. Universe contest or one of similar name, don't recall the exact one, but it was one of those male beauty pagent things. Of course that was LONG before his porn career and presumably while he was in better shape. -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 2 12:40:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? In-Reply-To: <3E3C0739.1080504@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20030202183743.12805.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- ben franchuk wrote: > ...However getting back to the original question about the PDP without > I/O, a console I/O is mandatory for use of a PDP-8. Not having a 8 > I can't tell however if the standard serial I/O had a option for RS232 > output. RS-232 did not come to the PDP-8 until the days of the OMNIBUS. The KL8E and descendents had circuits to drive either an EIA (RS-232) line or a 20mA line out of a 40-pin connector. Earlier machines, esp. those that used the W076 20mA paddle card, were strictly 20mA. This is not to say that nobody could make an EIA converter card for an older machine; far from it. I'm just saying that DEC did not, and I don't think anyone else did either. Back in those days, if you needed a console, you had an ASR-33 or equivalent. Glass TTYs didn't come out until the early 1970s. -ethan From fernande at internet1.net Sun Feb 2 13:01:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Something for all you PS/2 fans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E3D6A1D.6040609@internet1.net> vance@neurotica.com wrote: > Anyone want PS/2 Mod 95's? Apparently some of them have Type-IV (! -- > expensive) complexes. > > Peace... Sridhar > > Yes! Did you buy those 12 on Ebay or something? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From loedman1 at juno.com Sun Feb 2 13:03:00 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: OT: RoadRunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! (Michael Sokolov) Message-ID: <20030202.105754.-104659.1.loedman1@juno.com> >The class action suit should of course be against the blockers. We really need >a law that guarantees penalties for spamblockers 10 times greater than those >for spammers. If you send spam, you get 1 year in prison. If you assault an >open relay operator, mangle E-mail addresses, or do anything else to desecrate >the Classic Computing tradition, you should get 10 years in prison. If a >spammer gets 5 years in prison, spamblockers must get 50 years. Excuse me ? Perhaps we should all forward all of our spam, porn and otherwise, to you. Please provide a valid address so we may do so. Rich Stephenson California From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 13:03:04 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Expect to see fewer hard drives. In-Reply-To: <20030202173209.39748.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c2caed$976da380$6401a8c0@benchbox> I didn't have install media either and at the time hadn't played with the BSD variants that run on this machine. The prom is really primitive. Architecture is Sun4 not Sun4U or any of the newer ones. One of our list members shipped me original Solaris 2.4 cd's. I forget who he is but I was very greatful. BTW, every time I try to mount a solaris partition under Net or Open BSD it trashes it. When I try to reboot to Solaris it gives me 'bad magic number' or something like that. Then I have to reinstall Solaris. I just gave up on trying to mount the solaris partition. I have all three os's (NetBSD, OpenBSD and Solaris 2.4) on this machine but I never touch the Solaris partition in another environment. Solaris 2.4 is the last version of Sun's software that will run on this monster. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 12:32 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Expect to see fewer hard drives. --- "Jeffrey S. Worley" wrote: > It wouldn't let me. The os is Solaris 2.4. When I booted single-user I > still had to feed it the root P/W which I didn't have. Typically for those, you boot a distro CD and mount the root partition and edit the shadow file. Mind you, you don't need the exact version of Solaris, just something that will run on your machine. Alternatively, if you have more than one Solaris box, you can mount the root drive in the other machine, mount, edit, etc. > ...I broke the machine by running Jack on the...then set the prom > date way back... Interesting approach. I must say that I would never have thought of it. -ethan From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 13:06:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c2caed$f08a4a90$6401a8c0@benchbox> I think they are on-topic. We've got four Ibm 360's onboard. Something like that. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Computermuseum Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 1:25 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Columbia Columbia.. I regret it happened ... But is this not a classic-computer talk-group? I don't want to receive such e-mails anymore... These are far off-topic... Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Eric Dittman Verzonden: zondag 2 februari 2003 19:23 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: Columbia > > ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle > > program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete craft/crew > > losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still a > > damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors may > > say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > > closest to beating this record...) > > Southwest Airlines. Southwest Airlines is an airline, not airliner. He was asking for a model of passenger airplane. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Feb 2 13:11:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia, RoadRunner : please stop ! Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C9E4@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, Although I, like everyone else, am sad about what has happened, I would like to ask that we go back to ClassiComp related issues here. I've been hitting the >D< key a little too often the past few days. Thanks, Fred From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 2 13:20:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: OT: RoadRunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! (Michael Sokolov) Message-ID: <0302021916.AA24457@ivan.Harhan.ORG> loedman1@juno.com wrote: > Please provide a valid address so we may do so. Since I use Classic Computers for my mail and honestly follow the original standards of the Founding Fathers of ARPANET without any obfuscation or other desecration, the only address I have is the valid one, and it appears in the From: header of every message I send. MS From kth at srv.net Sun Feb 2 13:27:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <00e801c2cac0$7aa9b8b0$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <3E3D758C.4030708@srv.net> Ed Tillman wrote: >...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle >program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete craft/crew >losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still a >damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors may >say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > SR-71 Blackbird >claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes >closest to beating this record...) > >Cheers... From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 13:29:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001301c2caf1$28ee7340$6401a8c0@benchbox> Someone mentioned C3 the other day. That translates to Convergent Technologies. I thing Burroughs bought them in the late 80's. I cut my teeth on C3 gear. At age 8 I was an expert at crashing the Coast Guard mini in Saulte Ste. Marie, Michigan. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brian Chase Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:56 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Old Computer Companies On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I'm trying to think of all the really old computer companies that are > still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make computers. DEC and DG > are gone. So there's HP, IBM, Bull... are there any others left from > way-back-when? Oh yeah, there's Siemens. And Amdahl's part of Fujitsu > now. Do they still count? I guess Fujitsu probably counts on its own > merits. Hitachi and Toshiba left the industry recently, after many years. > And then there's Unisys, with their recent turn to weird hybrid systems. > Did I miss anyone? Sure... SGI and Sun. -brian. From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 13:33:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Expect to see fewer hard drives. In-Reply-To: <20030202173209.39748.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001401c2caf1$c844db00$6401a8c0@benchbox> I hate to say it. I'd like it to seem a stroke of genius, but in the interest of accuracy it was an accident. The battery in my boot prom was nigh dead and I was setting the date manually in the prom. When I booted it that last time trying to crack it I failed to set the date. I was shocked when the machine responded the way it did. Just to set the record straight. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 12:32 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Expect to see fewer hard drives. --- "Jeffrey S. Worley" wrote: > It wouldn't let me. The os is Solaris 2.4. When I booted single-user I > still had to feed it the root P/W which I didn't have. Typically for those, you boot a distro CD and mount the root partition and edit the shadow file. Mind you, you don't need the exact version of Solaris, just something that will run on your machine. Alternatively, if you have more than one Solaris box, you can mount the root drive in the other machine, mount, edit, etc. > ...I broke the machine by running Jack on the...then set the prom > date way back... Interesting approach. I must say that I would never have thought of it. -ethan From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 13:36:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <3E3D758C.4030708@srv.net> Message-ID: <001501c2caf2$3e9677a0$6401a8c0@benchbox> The SR71 is no airliner. I've seen it take off several times when I was in Japan. If pressed, I'd guess the Boing 747 as the safest airliner. Barring bombs, hijackers, and other interference, I don't recall one crashing. Maybe once. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Handy Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 2:46 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Columbia Ed Tillman wrote: >...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle >program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete craft/crew >losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still a >damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors may >say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > SR-71 Blackbird >claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes >closest to beating this record...) > >Cheers... From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Feb 2 13:45:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies; Was RE: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <001301c2caf1$28ee7340$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > Someone mentioned C3 the other day. That translates to Convergent > Technologies. I thing Burroughs bought them in the late 80's. I cut my > teeth on C3 gear. At age 8 I was an expert at crashing the Coast Guard > mini in Saulte Ste. Marie, Michigan. Wouldn't have a floppy boot set for CTOS, wouldja? I have a fully functioning B26 with drive slice. Boots to a login prompt from the harddrive, and I don't have any passwords. Doc From jwillis at arielusa.com Sun Feb 2 13:48:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB75A@deathstar.arielnet.com> Someone mentioned C3 the other day. That translates to Convergent Technologies. I thing Burroughs bought them in the late 80's. I cut my teeth on C3 gear. At age 8 I was an expert at crashing the Coast Guard mini in Saulte Ste. Marie, Michigan. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brian Chase Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:56 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Old Computer Companies On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I'm trying to think of all the really old computer companies that are > still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make computers. DEC and DG > are gone. So there's HP, IBM, Bull... are there any others left from > way-back-when? Oh yeah, there's Siemens. And Amdahl's part of Fujitsu > now. Do they still count? I guess Fujitsu probably counts on its own > merits. Hitachi and Toshiba left the industry recently, after many years. > And then there's Unisys, with their recent turn to weird hybrid systems. > Did I miss anyone? Sure... SGI and Sun. -brian. My linux box is a DataGeneral 486 [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From dbwood at kc.rr.com Sun Feb 2 13:51:01 2003 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia, RoadRunner : please stop ! References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C9E4@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <0c1901c2caf4$10a9f540$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Perhaps the Classic Computer list should adopt a policy similar the what the PICLIST (a list for Microchip PIC-related issues) has used: namely, each posting gets assigned a tag (by the poster) which identifies the basic category that the message belongs to. Members of the list can then select which categories they wish to view and those categories not selected will not show up in their inbox. Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 1:08 PM Subject: Columbia, RoadRunner : please stop ! > All, > > Although I, like everyone else, am sad about what has happened, > I would like to ask that we go back to ClassiComp related issues > here. I've been hitting the >D< key a little too often the past > few days. > > Thanks, > Fred From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 13:54:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies; Was RE: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001601c2caf4$b6a67b30$6401a8c0@benchbox> Sorry to say that I don't. I have some 8" data disks with CG data on them, but they aren't boots. Sorry. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Doc Shipley Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 2:43 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Convergent Technologies; Was RE: Old Computer Companies On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > Someone mentioned C3 the other day. That translates to Convergent > Technologies. I thing Burroughs bought them in the late 80's. I cut my > teeth on C3 gear. At age 8 I was an expert at crashing the Coast Guard > mini in Saulte Ste. Marie, Michigan. Wouldn't have a floppy boot set for CTOS, wouldja? I have a fully functioning B26 with drive slice. Boots to a login prompt from the harddrive, and I don't have any passwords. Doc From computermuseum at pandora.be Sun Feb 2 13:55:01 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <001201c2caed$f08a4a90$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: They are not that ancient... and by the way... how do you know that... are you a NASA engineer? With best regards, Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Jeffrey S. Worley Verzonden: zondag 2 februari 2003 20:05 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: RE: Columbia I think they are on-topic. We've got four Ibm 360's onboard. Something like that. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Computermuseum Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 1:25 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Columbia Columbia.. I regret it happened ... But is this not a classic-computer talk-group? I don't want to receive such e-mails anymore... These are far off-topic... Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Eric Dittman Verzonden: zondag 2 februari 2003 19:23 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: Columbia > > ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle > > program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete craft/crew > > losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still a > > damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors may > > say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > > closest to beating this record...) > > Southwest Airlines. Southwest Airlines is an airline, not airliner. He was asking for a model of passenger airplane. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From thompson at new.rr.com Sun Feb 2 14:02:01 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.20 sources and binaries In-Reply-To: <0302010150.AA21709@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > ivan.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/thirdparty/Ultrix-32/sources now contains *good* > Ultrix V2.00 and V4.20 sources. (Be warned, though, that this machine resides > in my cave which is connected to the outside world through a modem which > usually connects at 31200 BPS, sometimes 28800. Feel free to set up a mirror.) If anyone else if interested, I have the 4.20 src available for an unknown length of time here: http://65.28.155.84/ult420src.tar.bz2 http://65.28.155.84/ult420src.lst This is not really a mirror per se, so these might disappear without notice or be otherwise unavailable at some later date. Note I also took the liberty of bzip2'ing the tarball. The original used compress (1). -- From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 14:02:12 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c2caf5$da449080$6401a8c0@benchbox> Oh no. Nothing like that. I read something somewhere that intimated that they had really ancient IBM gear onboard. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Computermuseum Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 2:50 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Columbia They are not that ancient... and by the way... how do you know that... are you a NASA engineer? With best regards, Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Jeffrey S. Worley Verzonden: zondag 2 februari 2003 20:05 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: RE: Columbia I think they are on-topic. We've got four Ibm 360's onboard. Something like that. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Computermuseum Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 1:25 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Columbia Columbia.. I regret it happened ... But is this not a classic-computer talk-group? I don't want to receive such e-mails anymore... These are far off-topic... Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Eric Dittman Verzonden: zondag 2 februari 2003 19:23 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: Columbia > > ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle > > program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete craft/crew > > losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still a > > damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors may > > say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > > closest to beating this record...) > > Southwest Airlines. Southwest Airlines is an airline, not airliner. He was asking for a model of passenger airplane. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From allain at panix.com Sun Feb 2 14:10:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia, RoadRunner : please stop ! References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C9E4@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <068001c2caf6$c2cd5f80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I would like to ask that we go back to ClassiComp related issues Yeah, me too. I brought up the subject solely to get people who live on the list (incl. lurkers) away from it for a while so they would get caught up on the news. Looks like things are getting back to normal already anyway, Thanks everyone. John A. From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 14:16:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Looking for a SOL In-Reply-To: <1044196082.3933.7.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <001801c2caf7$bd935f00$6401a8c0@benchbox> There is one at computer parts barn in Asheville, North Carolina. I'm not sure that he will sell.. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Talbot Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 9:28 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Looking for a SOL The first computer that want crazy over was a SOL. It was an S-100 based console that used a DUAL cassette interface. Super. Never could afford one but I did get the original MSA (Microsoft) basic on cassette just in case. I would love to get one now just for nostalgia. If anyone should come across one let me know. awt@io.com From kth at srv.net Sun Feb 2 14:34:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <001501c2caf2$3e9677a0$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <3E3D8517.2040506@srv.net> Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: >The SR71 is no airliner. I've seen it take off several times when I was >in Japan. If pressed, I'd guess the Boing 747 as the safest airliner. >Barring bombs, hijackers, and other interference, I don't recall one >crashing. Maybe once. > The question I responded to was "Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft", and the SR-71 fits into that category. When you consider that it was frequently flown over enemy territory, was constantly being shot at, but was never succussfully shot down, it is an impressive record. > >Regards, > >Jeff > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Kevin Handy >Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 2:46 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Columbia > >Ed Tillman wrote: > > > >>...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle >>program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete >> >> >craft/crew > > >>losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still >> >> >a > > >>damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors >> >> >may > > >>say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the >> >> >same > > >SR-71 Blackbird > > > >>claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes >>closest to beating this record...) >> >>Cheers... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 2 14:46:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <20030131144635.91896.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> from "lee courtney" at Jan 31, 3 06:46:35 am Message-ID: > If you can't find anyone interested in the Seattle > area and its running, consider donating it to a local > high school computer club. Isn't this one of the worst things you can do with a classic machine? Unless there's a student or teacher who is already clueful about old computers, nobody is going to know what to do with it. It'll sit around for a few weeks, and then go to the murdering scrap dealers :-( When I was at school, some 20-odd years ago, a lot of stuff was donated and then checked out. I rescued all I could (quite a bit...) as did other students, lab tecnicians, etc. But it certainly wasn't used for educational purposes. -tony From computermuseum at pandora.be Sun Feb 2 14:54:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <3E3D8517.2040506@srv.net> Message-ID: hey guys... please... stop this issue... Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Kevin Handy Verzonden: zondag 2 februari 2003 21:53 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: Columbia Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: >The SR71 is no airliner. I've seen it take off several times when I was >in Japan. If pressed, I'd guess the Boing 747 as the safest airliner. >Barring bombs, hijackers, and other interference, I don't recall one >crashing. Maybe once. > The question I responded to was "Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft", and the SR-71 fits into that category. When you consider that it was frequently flown over enemy territory, was constantly being shot at, but was never succussfully shot down, it is an impressive record. > >Regards, > >Jeff > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Kevin Handy >Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 2:46 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Columbia > >Ed Tillman wrote: > > > >>...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle >>program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete >> >> >craft/crew > > >>losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still >> >> >a > > >>damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors >> >> >may > > >>say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the >> >> >same > > >SR-71 Blackbird > > > >>claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes >>closest to beating this record...) >> >>Cheers... From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Feb 2 15:27:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Ada (was Re: Columbia) In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: Ada (was Re: Columbia)" (Feb 2, 7:29) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> <20030201162414.A10396@Erwin> <5.1.0.14.2.20030202103742.018eede0@slave> <20030202072957.E10396@Erwin> Message-ID: <10302022118.ZM11957@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 2, 7:29, Zane H. Healy wrote: > PULSE. The development was apparently done on the VAX, and > cross-compiled for the PDP-11/23. The book in question is "PULSE: An > Ada-based Distributed Operating System". Ian Wand has just retired from Computer Science at York, but Andy Wellings is still there. I'll ask Andy about that... CompSci had Vaxen and unibus 11's (I've got one of them), but I didn't know they ever had any small QBus machines. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 2 15:29:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <001501c2caf2$3e9677a0$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > closest to beating this record...) Howard Hughe's "Spruce Goose" has NEVER crashed. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Feb 2 15:31:01 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: looking for a COMPUTE! issue Message-ID: <200302022138.NAA26066@stockholm.ptloma.edu> I'm looking for a COMPUTE! (not Gazette) issue, dating around '84-'85 (I think). I recall the cover clearly; it had Miami Ice on it, and inside was Looking Glass, a useful little Commodore windowing utility. If someone has this magazine and would be willing to part with it, please contact me off list. Thank you! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Stand by to launch beef by-product into oscillating ventilation unit ... --- From jwb at paravolve.net Sun Feb 2 15:34:00 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (James W.Brinkerhoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:27 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.20 sources and binaries In-Reply-To: References: <0302010150.AA21709@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20030202163001.77c67776.jwb@paravolve.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:59:11 -0600 (CST) Paul Thompson wrote: # If anyone else if interested, I have the 4.20 src available for an unknown # length of time here: # # http://65.28.155.84/ult420src.tar.bz2 # http://65.28.155.84/ult420src.lst I'm currently downloading this and would be more than happy to throw it up on a T3 pipe for anyone interested. Reply to me personally and I'll set something up. (If anyone has the rest of the sources and tape archives available on the original site on a slightly faster connection *please* let me know and I'll mirror that as well) - -jwb - -- ## James W. Brinkerhoff ## ## GPG Key Sig: EBF1 6C24 0814 A3E9 6E93 649C 1F25 D807 E484 C9B9 iD8DBQE+PY3ZHyXYB+SEybkRAvL8AJ0a5kWxD0TDdOR03KkKB4H9A7ANswCfVDpZ 551Wrynn+GBHD0r975dmS5c= =/Vj4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From evan947 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 2 15:58:00 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030202215558.77087.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Hitachi and IBM merged their disk drives groups, into a new co-owned company, Hitachi Global Storage Technologies (www.hgst.com). DEC was bought by Compaq, ergo HP. DG was bought by EMC. --- vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I'm trying to think of all the really old computer > companies that are > still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make > computers. DEC and DG > are gone. So there's HP, IBM, Bull... are there > any others left from > way-back-when? Oh yeah, there's Siemens. And > Amdahl's part of Fujitsu > now. Do they still count? I guess Fujitsu probably > counts on its own > merits. Hitachi and Toshiba left the industry > recently, after many years. > And then there's Unisys, with their recent turn to > weird hybrid systems. > Did I miss anyone? > > Peace... Sridhar From evan947 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 2 15:59:39 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030202215558.77087.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Hitachi and IBM merged their disk drives groups, into a new co-owned company, Hitachi Global Storage Technologies (www.hgst.com). DEC was bought by Compaq, ergo HP. DG was bought by EMC. --- vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I'm trying to think of all the really old computer > companies that are > still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make > computers. DEC and DG > are gone. So there's HP, IBM, Bull... are there > any others left from > way-back-when? Oh yeah, there's Siemens. And > Amdahl's part of Fujitsu > now. Do they still count? I guess Fujitsu probably > counts on its own > merits. Hitachi and Toshiba left the industry > recently, after many years. > And then there's Unisys, with their recent turn to > weird hybrid systems. > Did I miss anyone? > > Peace... Sridhar From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Feb 2 16:16:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c2cb08$41ad79a0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > I'm hoping I'll be able to use EasyCD Creator to do bit by > bit backups of some of the CDs so I'll let you know how I get > on, assuming my burner is behaving itself - it has a habit of I've had issues with Easy CD Creator and non-ISO9660 files (like ODS-2). Both Nero and CDRWin have worked flawlessly for me, even when burning "overlaid" ISO9660/ODS-2 CDs. CDRWin is a free evaluation download www.goldenhawk.com. Nero often comes free with a new CD-RW :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Feb 2 16:41:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: ; from vance@neurotica.com on Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 12:43:38 CET References: Message-ID: <20030202233111.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.01 12:43 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > are there any others left from way-back-when? Define closer. 50'is, 60'is 70'is??? > Oh yeah, there's Siemens. Well. The IT part of Siemens is based on the Zuse KG and later merged with Nixdorf... > Did I miss anyone? SGI. Sun. Apple. Sequent was absorbed by IBM. Motorola. Oliveti? Is Oliveti still alive? Robotron - dead. Fujitsu. NEC. Norsk Data? Intergraph left some years ago. Symbolics? Isn't there a reminder of Symbolics still alive? Intel!? Texas Instruments. (Still produceing DSPs) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Feb 2 16:49:03 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies References: <20030202233111.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3E3D9FF3.1010204@gifford.co.uk> Jochen Kunz wrote: > Norsk Data? Whatever happened to them? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From vsimon at eresmas.com Sun Feb 2 17:05:00 2003 From: vsimon at eresmas.com (Vicente =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sim=F3n?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP vsimon@eresmas.com In-Reply-To: <019301c2cb0f$27299620$0101c80a@p2350> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030203000105.00d69c70@127.0.0.1> UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP vsimon@eresmas.com From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sun Feb 2 17:15:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies References: <000001c2cab7$f12bca40$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <008201c2cb0f$bfe72620$434a1942@starfury> Hmm... Talk about full circle... My dad retired from Amdahl's San Jose, CA division in 1980. He grew crystal chips for some of the earlier "high capacity" CPUs... Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA > I did have the opportunity to meet Gene Amdahl...what a nice guy (btw he > did tell me he is a Mac user)...I asked for (and got) an autographed > copy of his picture. What ever happened to Andor (his last company) and > what were they trying to build? > > -Chandra From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sun Feb 2 17:30:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies; Was RE: Old Computer Companies References: <001601c2caf4$b6a67b30$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <00a601c2cb11$df564250$434a1942@starfury> No luck on that one... I never had access to the operating system. I was "strongly encouraged" to write applications to get a poor B26 network to talk to both Honeywell and Sperry mainframes. I was quite the unhappy camper at the time -- I could get it to talk to the Sperry, but nearly never to the Honeywell, even with Honeywell and Sperry emulator packages. (I was a 1Lt at the time, and they hadn't bothered to tell me they'd fired a GS-11 lifetime programmer for the same "failing...") Needless to say, I don't have any love lost for CT or C3 systems. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Worley" To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 01:53 PM Subject: RE: Convergent Technologies; Was RE: Old Computer Companies > Sorry to say that I don't. I have some 8" data disks with CG data on > them, but they aren't boots. Sorry. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Doc Shipley > Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 2:43 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Convergent Technologies; Was RE: Old Computer Companies > > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > > > Someone mentioned C3 the other day. That translates to Convergent > > Technologies. I thing Burroughs bought them in the late 80's. I cut > my > > teeth on C3 gear. At age 8 I was an expert at crashing the Coast > Guard > > mini in Saulte Ste. Marie, Michigan. > > Wouldn't have a floppy boot set for CTOS, wouldja? > I have a fully functioning B26 with drive slice. Boots to a login > prompt from the harddrive, and I don't have any passwords. > > Doc From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sun Feb 2 17:34:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Columbia References: Message-ID: <00bb01c2cb12$5f7afa20$434a1942@starfury> But S.G. only "flew" once... Try the L-1011. Only *one* crash, ever. Now... Back to the classics... :) Cheers! Ed Tillman San Antonio, Tx, USA From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > > closest to beating this record...) > > Howard Hughe's "Spruce Goose" has NEVER crashed. From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sun Feb 2 17:37:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <001501c2caf2$3e9677a0$6401a8c0@benchbox> <3E3D8517.2040506@srv.net> Message-ID: <00c401c2cb12$d302ef70$434a1942@starfury> SR had one crash that I'm aware of, at Kadena in the '60s... Other than that, two still fly for NASA now... :) > Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > > >The SR71 is no airliner. I've seen it take off several times when I was > >in Japan. [...] The question I responded to was "Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft", and the SR-71 fits into that category. [...] When you consider that it was frequently flown over enemy territory, was constantly being shot at, but was never succussfully shot down, it is an impressive record. From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sun Feb 2 17:41:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Columbia References: <001701c2caf5$da449080$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <00cc01c2cb13$60c3b150$434a1942@starfury> Also, I thought their most modern CPU was a 486DX equivalent... From: "Jeffrey S. Worley" > Oh no. Nothing like that. I read something somewhere that intimated > that they had really ancient IBM gear onboard. > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Computermuseum > > They are not that ancient... and by the way... how do you know that... > are you a NASA engineer? > > Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Onderwerp: RE: Columbia > I think they are on-topic. We've got four Ibm 360's onboard. Something > like that. > Subject: RE: Columbia > > Columbia.. I regret it happened ... > > But is this not a classic-computer talk-group? > > I don't want to receive such e-mails anymore... These are far > off-topic... > > Michel From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Feb 2 17:55:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: DEC cable sought Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C9EB@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi all, Does anyone have one or two DEC BC09J cables they'd be willing to part with? If so, pse contact me off-list.. thanks! --fred From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Feb 2 17:57:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: OFF TOPIC for cctech, ON TOPIC for cctalk: Re: Space Shuttle Disaster References: <20030202173123.71245.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E3DAFBC.1030503@eoni.com> Al Hartman wrote: > > And the temporary solution is to build a few more new > shuttles and ground the older ones. ON TOPIC Follows: The Space Transportation System relies on proven 1970's technology. Things like "Five identical general-purpose computers aboard the orbiter control space shuttle vehicle systems. Each GPC is composed of two separate units, a central processor unit and an input/output processor. All five GPCs are IBM AP-101 computers. Each CPU and IOP contains a memory area for storing software and data. These memory areas are collectively referred to as the GPC's main memory." Learn more at: OFF TOPIC follows: Al, Great idea except... Most of the original companies that built the fleet are long gone. (Grumman, GD/Convair, Rockwell STSD, Rocketdyne, McDonnell/Douglas, Fairchild among others...) The manufacturing tooling is long gone. As is some of the "expertise". (Boron-Aluminum Tubes come immediately to mind. They were a bitch to manufacture when the fabricators *knew* what they were doing. And there's hunderds of different ones required.) I just found a photo taken in 'our' facility and while some of the tooling may still be around, I remember the fixtures being 'recycled'. (Fixtures are the white things holding everything up in the pic at ) The experienced fabricators have been spread to the winds due to item 1 above. I'd love to rejoin the Orbiter team. In retrospect, one of the two things I've done so far in my life that has helped change the world. And we couldn't have done it without the active assistance of a bunch of DEC-Maynard, CV and other support folks. They helped keep our manufacturing systems alive. Jim From kd7bcy at teleport.com Sun Feb 2 18:49:00 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: IBM Series/1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >May have a line on one of those... I know they're interesting, I've >heard they have something resembling an operator panel, but I've >never actually seen one and I can't find any pics on the web... can >anybody point me to some? I have a 4956-K00 with the programming panel. There's an old picture at http://jrollins.tripod.com/s1.html. Now that I have a nice new 2mp digital, I suppose I should upgrade those old QuickCam and Apple QuickTake pictures. I haven't updated my web site in probably a year and a half, and that was just deleting some old email addresses, and there are still way too many broken links. Most of the content is over 2 years old and badly out of date. In fact, the last time I updated the Series/1 page was over 2 1/2 years ago! Time to break out an HTML book again, I guess. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Feb 2 19:12:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Atari ST Help In-Reply-To: <20030202180001.27747.29700.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030203010936.33594.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> I have my original Atari ST 512 still... It's been a trouper and I'd like to use it again.. So, I'm looking for help with the following: 1. It has an AERCO Easie-ST Ram upgrade board in it, that is no longer recognized. This board will use 1mb x 8 chips to take the system to 4mb (which is max for this machine). I lost my manual, and it isn't working anymore. I know it's a long shot, but does anyone have the manual for this, or can point me to where I can get a RAM upgrade for this old machine? 2. I'd like to throw an 80mb SCSI External drive I have on it, so I'm looking for a SCSI Adapter for an ST. $100 + s/h for a new(?) one from one of the remaining dealers is a bit steep... Does anyone know of a cheaper source for one, or have an old Atari Drive with a bad mechanism I can buy to salvage the adapter? Regards, Al Hartman P.S.: I have a paper tray for an HP IIIp printer (but not the actual mechanism to use it) if someone is still looking for one. From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Feb 2 19:37:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies Message-ID: <145.968c4b7.2b6f212a@aol.com> In a message dated 2/2/03 3:15:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, ETILLMAN@satx.rr.com writes: > > I did have the opportunity to meet Gene Amdahl...what a nice guy (btw he > > did tell me he is a Mac user)...I asked for (and got) an autographed > > copy of his picture. What ever happened to Andor (his last company) and > > what were they trying to build? > I bought the remainders of the test wafers from Gene Amdahl's Elixi company in its failure in the mid 1980s. This was where he tried to put a mainframe on a 6" wafer. It was a failure, pushing the limits of LSI technology at the time. I went to their final auction in 1989. In the lobby of the building was Gene Amdahl's first computer, not for sale. It was very interesting. I wonder where it is now? It was destined to be saved. Paxton Hoag Astoria, OR From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Feb 2 19:55:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <00cc01c2cb13$60c3b150$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Ed Tillman wrote: > Also, I thought their most modern CPU was a 486DX equivalent... I'd be curious to know what onboard computer systems they've used over the years. Honeywell Space Systems has an interesting page with a mention of some Shuttle and ISS related computers: http://content.honeywell.com/Space/products/Electronics.htm http://content.honeywell.com/Space/hsf/default.htm http://content.honeywell.com/Space/SpaceShuttle.htm Most of it is rather vague, though there are mentions of Intel processors with added mathcoprocessors. And there's a mention of a 32-bit 80960 in there. I wonder what they were using during the early 1980s. -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Feb 2 20:11:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <145.968c4b7.2b6f212a@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In the lobby of the building was Gene Amdahl's first computer, not for > sale. It was very interesting. I wonder where it is now? It was > destined to be saved. That would be the WISC. He built that computer while as part of his Physics graduate studies thesis. That machine is on display at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. I saw it just a month ago. The front of it has a number of rather large bullet holes through it. The story is that, apparently, his son used it as part of a make-shift target range in the basement of their home, where it was being stored for a number of years. Some details and a photo can be found here: -brian. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Feb 2 20:23:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <20030202215558.77087.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030202215558.77087.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <516521346.20030202202038@subatomix.com> On Sunday, February 2, 2003, evan wrote: > DG was bought by EMC. When did this happen? -- Jeffrey Sharp From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 20:31:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <516521346.20030202202038@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <001e01c2cb2c$25d571a0$6401a8c0@benchbox> 2000? Sounds about right. They bought it for the drive unit. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 9:21 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Old Computer Companies On Sunday, February 2, 2003, evan wrote: > DG was bought by EMC. When did this happen? -- Jeffrey Sharp From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Feb 2 20:33:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Emulex QD 211 Message-ID: <1d2.17520b5.2b6f2e06@aol.com> A quick Google search nor looking through Emulex's site was I able to find out what this card is? The actual number is QD2110202-00 rev L. From the connectors it is either ESDI or a MFM hard disk controller for Qbus but I am not sure which. Pictures at http://members.aol.com/innfosale/ebay/QD211E1A.JPG http://members.aol.com/innfosale/ebay/QD211E1B.JPG Thanks, Paxton Astoria, OR From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 2 20:42:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Space Shuttle Disaster In-Reply-To: <20030202173123.71245.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > What bugs me about it, beyond the obvious... Is that Islamic Extremests > will take this disaster and interpret it to mean that God has spoken > against the U.S. and Israel, and that this disaster is an omen. One (anyone, especially religious folk) cannot ignore the stark symbolism surrounding the whole event. > Let's wait and see, but I'm sure many in that crowd were jumping with > glee over this, and taking this as a sign that "Allah" was on their > side. It is what it is. I didn't hear any news of anyone "jumping with glee" over it. I'm certainly not jumping with glee over it, but then, I'm not an extremist either. > A sad interpretation of a Sadder event. You brought it up :\ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ssj152 at charter.net Sun Feb 2 22:13:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list References: Message-ID: <00b601c2cb3a$198f5240$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 7:05 AM Subject: RE: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list > > > I'm hoping I'll be able to use EasyCD Creator to do bit by bit backups of > some of the CDs so I'll let you know how I get on, assuming my burner is > behaving itself - it has a habit of going offline and the only thing that > brings it back is a power cycle which takes bloody ages on this machine > since it's all UltraSCSI. Having said that it doesn't take as long as a > Compaq Proliant ML370 :) > > > OT: What is the VXT Host Software(VAX)? Something to allow loading a VXT > > from a VAX instead of from an Infoserver? > > Yep. You needed a VXT with a minimum of 10mb RAM from what I remember, which > is why I never played with it as all our VXTs had 4mb. I wish I'd saved more > of them now but I only had room for 1 :( > > > You have a fine collection of goodies there! > > Thank my ex-ex-company for binning the whole lot when it suddenly became > 'legacy' and they started chasing the M$oft dangling carrot! > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans I've used Nero to make backup copies of my "DEC" CDRoms and it has worked extremely well. I am using a QUE 24x10x40 ATAPI drive on a PIII clone PC running Windows XP pro and I haven't made a coaster yet. Nero has the reputation of not being easy to use, but making a copy of one of these CDRom's couldn't be much easier. My Nero version is 5.5.9.17. For other jobs, especially dealing with music, I prefer Easy CD Creator, which I also have. If you want some assistance in burning a limited number of these CD's, I am available. Regards, Stuart Johnson From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 2 22:41:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Gulf War, dummies, Uncle Sugar... (WasRE: Convergent Technologies; Was RE: Old Computer Companies) In-Reply-To: <00a601c2cb11$df564250$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <001f01c2cb3e$51b43290$6401a8c0@benchbox> Oh. Wingwiper or army? I was in the Seabees but was just a groundpounder E3. I wouldn't be surprised if a fair chunk of the list was dumb enough at one time or other to sign up for Uncle Sugar. I'm a gulf-war vet. Spent about seven months in a nowhere place called Raas Al Mishab Saudi Arabia. Also some time in Kuwait during the ground phase of the war. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ed Tillman Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 6:22 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Convergent Technologies; Was RE: Old Computer Companies No luck on that one... I never had access to the operating system. I was "strongly encouraged" to write applications to get a poor B26 network to talk to both Honeywell and Sperry mainframes. I was quite the unhappy camper at the time -- I could get it to talk to the Sperry, but nearly never to the Honeywell, even with Honeywell and Sperry emulator packages. (I was a 1Lt at the time, and they hadn't bothered to tell me they'd fired a GS-11 lifetime programmer for the same "failing...") Needless to say, I don't have any love lost for CT or C3 systems. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Worley" To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 01:53 PM Subject: RE: Convergent Technologies; Was RE: Old Computer Companies > Sorry to say that I don't. I have some 8" data disks with CG data on > them, but they aren't boots. Sorry. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Doc Shipley > Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 2:43 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Convergent Technologies; Was RE: Old Computer Companies > > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > > > Someone mentioned C3 the other day. That translates to Convergent > > Technologies. I thing Burroughs bought them in the late 80's. I cut > my > > teeth on C3 gear. At age 8 I was an expert at crashing the Coast > Guard > > mini in Saulte Ste. Marie, Michigan. > > Wouldn't have a floppy boot set for CTOS, wouldja? > I have a fully functioning B26 with drive slice. Boots to a login > prompt from the harddrive, and I don't have any passwords. > > Doc From jss at subatomix.com Sun Feb 2 22:48:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Emulex QD 211 In-Reply-To: <1d2.17520b5.2b6f2e06@aol.com> References: <1d2.17520b5.2b6f2e06@aol.com> Message-ID: <10025223068.20030202224540@subatomix.com> On Sunday, February 2, 2003, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > A quick Google search nor looking through Emulex's site was I able to find > out what this card is? It's a QD21. Here's what Megan's (et al) module list at says: : QD21 Q Emulex ESDI disk controller. Emulates MSCP. : Has LSI-11 boot, LSI-11 & VAX config and : diagnostic programmes in ROM, NVRAM config : settings. Q22. > The actual number is QD2110202-00 rev L. Emulex's "assy numbers" are wierd like that. Sometimes it makes it quite difficult to identify a board. While we're at it, would someone here please demystify the format and meaning of Emulex assy numbers? -- Jeffrey Sharp From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Feb 2 23:05:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm trying to think of all the really old computer companies that are > still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make computers. I think GE does, but they tend to be rather speciallized (military or medical). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jss at subatomix.com Sun Feb 2 23:09:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) In-Reply-To: <3E1B1A35.10603@Vishay.com> References: from "2003 06:37:46 PM" <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> <200301071527.KAA109860720@shell.TheWorld.com> <3E1B1A35.10603@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <5226518281.20030202230715@subatomix.com> A little more fuel for this thread: Am I right in thinking that the 11/23 and the 11/23+ use the same CPU/option chips? Can I swap chips between them? -- Jeffrey Sharp From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Feb 2 23:23:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) References: from "2003 06:37:46 PM" <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> <200301071527.KAA109860720@shell.TheWorld.com> <3E1B1A35.10603@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <200302030520.AAA111277573@shell.TheWorld.com> Yes, the 11/23 and 11/23+ use the same chips. The 11/24 and PRO300 series also use the DCF11 chip. I don't know if they also use the memory management chip... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Feb 2 23:26:01 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Columbia References: Message-ID: <3E3DFC9B.7060409@eoni.com> I sent the link... IBM AP-101 times 5. Jim Brian Chase wrote: > > I wonder what they were using during the early 1980s. From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 2 23:36:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Emulex QD 211 In-Reply-To: <1d2.17520b5.2b6f2e06@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > A quick Google search nor looking through Emulex's site was I able to find > out what this card is? > > The actual number is QD2110202-00 rev L. From the connectors it is either > ESDI or a MFM hard disk controller for Qbus but I am not sure which. The ST412/506 (MFM)card would have pins 2/4/6/8 of the 20-pin connector at ground potential. On ESDI, only '6' of that group would be at ground. - don > Pictures at > http://members.aol.com/innfosale/ebay/QD211E1A.JPG > http://members.aol.com/innfosale/ebay/QD211E1B.JPG > > Thanks, > Paxton > Astoria, OR From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 2 23:49:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <200302021822.h12IMZlq025207@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle > > > program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete craft/crew > > > losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still a > > > damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors may > > > say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > > > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > > > closest to beating this record...) > > > > Southwest Airlines. > > Southwest Airlines is an airline, not airliner. He was asking > for a model of passenger airplane. Got it. But they still have the best commercial record of any (US-based at least) airline ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 2 23:57:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <145.968c4b7.2b6f212a@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In the lobby of the building was Gene Amdahl's first computer, not for > sale. It was very interesting. I wonder where it is now? It was destined > to be saved. It's in the Computer History Museum. It's quite an amazing machine, considering he built it in high school! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Technoid at 30below.com Mon Feb 3 00:29:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002001c2cb4d$65e60950$6401a8c0@benchbox> Maybe, but then again the plane is like an Italian rifle. Fired once, dropped once. It is practically unused. I visited the museum where it is stored along with the QE? It is a really really big plane. I've flown on a C5A and it was bigger still (or so it seemed). Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 4:26 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Columbia > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > closest to beating this record...) Howard Hughe's "Spruce Goose" has NEVER crashed. From jwillis at arielusa.com Mon Feb 3 00:46:01 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB75B@deathstar.arielnet.com> Some of us are using very slow dial-up connections with even more cumbersome web interfaces. The occasional off-topic post is OK but this has gone way too far. I've gotten three additional "pages" of mail headers due to this thread-just today. -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail Sent: Sun 2/2/2003 10:42 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: Columbia On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle > > > program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete craft/crew > > > losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still a > > > damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors may > > > say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > > > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > > > closest to beating this record...) > > > > Southwest Airlines. > > Southwest Airlines is an airline, not airliner. He was asking > for a model of passenger airplane. Got it. But they still have the best commercial record of any (US-based at least) airline ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From msspcva at yahoo.com Mon Feb 3 01:03:00 2003 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Paging John Willis! In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB75B@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <20030203070022.95192.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com> John: I've seen recent CCtalk etc activity from you from multiple email addresses, and am wondering why you've not yet responded to my earlier requests for information concerning payment for that SCSI CDROM drive I sent you back in November. Tho I'm sure there is some decent explanation, I think by now there would have been a reply of some kind about that hardware. Please respond soon, Frank ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 3 01:37:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Ada (was Re: Columbia) In-Reply-To: <10302022118.ZM11957@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: Ada (was Re: Columbia)" (Feb 2, 7:29) <5.1.0.14.2.20030201233618.01852d80@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030201222841.0192be30@slave> <20030201162414.A10396@Erwin> <5.1.0.14.2.20030202103742.018eede0@slave> <20030202072957.E10396@Erwin> Message-ID: >On Feb 2, 7:29, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> PULSE. The development was apparently done on the VAX, and >> cross-compiled for the PDP-11/23. The book in question is "PULSE: An >> Ada-based Distributed Operating System". > >Ian Wand has just retired from Computer Science at York, but Andy >Wellings is still there. I'll ask Andy about that... CompSci had >Vaxen and unibus 11's (I've got one of them), but I didn't know they >ever had any small QBus machines. Any chance you could get info on the RP02 clone? I found the fact that they used something like that as a disk rather interesting. I'm curious as to if it used a disk pack or a fixed disk. With the emulators that are now available, it would be really cool if PULSE could be made publically available. I've no idea as to who owns the rights to it though (don't know if the book indicates, I've not delved deep in it yet). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Feb 3 01:50:01 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB75B@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: Hi John, I'm with you... I think that these people forget that every member of CCtalk get's these off-topic things. The solution for them who wants to go on with this off-topic non-sence is to mail each other or to use ICQ. Why bother other people ? Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens John Willis Verzonden: maandag 3 februari 2003 7:43 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: RE: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE Some of us are using very slow dial-up connections with even more cumbersome web interfaces. The occasional off-topic post is OK but this has gone way too far. I've gotten three additional "pages" of mail headers due to this thread-just today. -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail Sent: Sun 2/2/2003 10:42 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: Columbia http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From enrico.badella at softstar.it Mon Feb 3 02:40:00 2003 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Pulse Ada OS Message-ID: <3E3E29BD.4ED7AAC2@softstar.it> > On 2003.02.02 02:43 Adrian Vickers wrote: > > PULSE. The development was apparently done on the VAX, and > cross-compiled for the PDP-11/23. The book in question is "PULSE: An > Ada-based Distributed Operating System". I have the book, bought it many years ago. Anybody know it PULSE is available somewhere? A quick google di not reveal any source. Would be probably a nice toy for an 11 ;-) cheers e. -- /|_ .-------------------------. ,' .\ / | Looking for PDP, and VAX| ,--' _,' | hardware and DEC-10 docs| / / `-------------------------' ( -. | | ) | (`-. '--.) `. )----' From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 3 04:33:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Siemens (was: Old Computer Companies) In-Reply-To: <20030202233111.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: ; from vance@neurotica.com on Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 12:43:38 CET Message-ID: <3E3E5312.11010.48620415@localhost> > > Oh yeah, there's Siemens. > Well. The IT part of Siemens is based on the Zuse KG and later merged > with Nixdorf... Let me get this timeline straight: Siemens/Zuse: Siemens and Zuse where different companies, and for at least 10 years in constant competition. In 1964 Siemens aquired Zuse KG and incooperated them into their line of control computer division. Some models have been produced, and further developed until the mid/late 70s. These machines never had any influence for comercial computers of Siemens. After the 2002, Siemens switched for IBM compatible machines, and did OEM RCA machines, and developed from there along the 360/370/390 path. Siemens/Nixdorf In 1990 Siemens aquired Nixdorf after the death of Heinz Nixdorf, founder and CEO of Nixdorf AG. Due legal reasons they had to keep it a seperate company (which also fitted the businessplans of that time quite well). Siemens split of their IT division and named the 'merger' Siemens Nixdorf. Merger might be a wrong term, since a lot of people belive it was just made to remove Nixdorf as competition. Well, Nixdorf never realy touched the core business, but has always been a pain in the ass for Siemens. They where 'only' strong in banking networks and POS systems. Nixdorf tried to dance on every wedding, from PCs to Mainframes, and even worse, tried to get a hold on ISDN switches. Not that they outsold Siemens, but wherever a Siemens sales man did show up, Nixdorf was already around. So when the chance opened to remove them from dirturbing business, Siemens willingly payed way much than the company was worth. Siemens/Robotron: Also in 1990 Siemens startet cooperations with Robotron, the East German Computer Manufacturer. Eventualy Siemens bought most of thir factories afterwards. Siemens/Fujitsu: In 2001 Siemens-Nixdorf joined with Fujitsu Europe to reorganize the IT business ... Still a work in progress. Gruss H. P.S.: Check this fine page about Zuses work and company: http://www.epemag.com/zuse/default.htm -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Feb 3 05:22:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Overlays, GKS... (Was: Re: New to list) References: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E32B318.907FCC4C@Vishay.com> <3E341CB4.363B3474@compsys.to> <3E357AC4.8020509@Vishay.com> <3E35AA23.8DE1E590@compsys.to> <3E366764.7000503@Vishay.com> <3E38250D.7F07065A@compsys.to> <3E3927F1.7030704@Vishay.com> <3E3986D3.BB45768F@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3E3E5042.9040400@Vishay.com> Jerome, oops, seems like I messed up the letters here: >>I had been modifying the XC handler once (we needed a PASSTHROUGH option >>for transparent binary serial I/O to support a paper tape punch from >>FORTRAN), but this was my closest encounter with "the system" so far. >>Everything else was merely porting existing FORTRAN code to RT-11. I >>have never looked into monitor data structures, so I'd have to collect >>knowledge (RTFM) before I could make useful contributions to a discussion. > > > I have managed to avoid ethernet under RT-11. Eventually, I will > look at it. But not today. Ethernet? - No, I meant to talk about a serial port. Too long ago, but I am sure there was no Ethernet involved. Then what was the serial port called? - XL perhaps? - See how long ago this was? The interesting part of this project was that I actually had no idea of how things like the SET command work. I had to read the documentation and find out myself. Nobody available to ask. And only a couple of days to complete the coding. After spending some time with the manuals, it turned out that there are only few lines of assembler code required to make things like SET PASS or SET NOPASS possible. I am sure that no Ethernet was involved because we used KERMIT for file transfer and terminal emulation, and I do remember that you had to SET NOPASS (back to original behaviour) before KERMIT could use it. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From djg at drs-esg.com Mon Feb 3 07:17:00 2003 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? Message-ID: <200302031314.IAA16591@drs-esg.com> >> From: Ethan Dicks > >That was one of my options. Any ideas about what to use for the >cabling? > If you are keeping it short ribbon cable should work fine. If you were running longer cables for multiple devices it might not be the best. >What would you estimate the entire harness to run? $100? > I think you need 10 or 11 boards which the cheapest was about $7 so it could be done for that. The cable connection will be tricky on the cheap extender card. The grid card would be the best but most expensive. >I was thinking of recycling the COMBOARD design - 1/4 of the memory >map is "shared memory" - there is a circuit between the 68000 and >the host bus that initiates DMA cycles when the 68000 reads/writes >to it. I have used a COMBOARD to test the RAM in a PDP-11/03 via >this shared memory interface. > Don't know if the 68000 has a fast enough clock to see the pulses or it will need a little hardware assist. As long as you don't mind your peripheral being brighter than the computer it should be viable. From: Bob Shannon > >I beleive that Al got a few (one or two?) Augat wire-wrap quad DEC >modules along with the CADR >hardware. There was at least one quad unibus Chaos net interface board. >But I have no idea of what an omnibus interface looks like electrically. > Is this a painful thing to build? > Omnibus timing is a little strange but not that hard to work with. It is similar to the 8/I external bus which is a daisy chained bus with 10 or 11 cables for full version. From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 3 07:52:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell werethe... References: <02b001c2c8d0$82241230$020010ac@k4jcw> <026201c2c8d7$faf80fc0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <015801c2cb8a$f5164d00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Ok, systems that I actually sold personally, professionally (not hobby).. HP netservers LC, LH, LPr, etc. All manner of clone PC's (IBM, columbia data systems, generic clones) Alphamicro Fujitsu (68K based pick machines) Pr1me General Automation Microdata Ultimate ADDS Dec PDP Honeywell Bull & DPS IBM 4300, Series 1 Citoh HP 9000 (D, G, H, K, N) From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 3 07:57:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: HP2100 References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <018701c2cb8b$caccb060$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Oh mannnnnnnnnn I'm out sick for a few days, and what do I see? Tons of posts on HP2100A systems, something I am desperately looking for!! I don't just want this "because I think it might be interesting". I want it so that I can get probably the only running HP2000 Access system in existence BACK up. What's worse is to see something needed to resurrect a real piece of history being offered to a high school computer club to "play with". GRRRRRRRR As I posted a few weeks ago, I am in desperate need of an HP2100 cpu to get my Access system back up. If anyone knows where one might be lurking that I could acquire, I would be MOST grateful. Thanks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Reed" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:05 PM Subject: HP2100 > Is a HP 2100 worth rescuing ? and if I were to rescue it is there anyone > who be interested in it (I'm out of room) From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 3 08:00:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: HP2100 References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030130214203.028bc2c0@mail.zipcon.net> <3E3BDAB7.6030802@tiac.net> Message-ID: <01bd01c2cb8c$2a125660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Bob wrote... ----- Original Message ----- > Jay West really needs one of these! Thanks for speaking up in my abscence Bob! Yes, I definitely need one of these. Quite badly. Geoff - is it available?? From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 3 08:02:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: HP2100 References: <20030131144635.91896.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01cd01c2cb8c$8ac7b900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Lee wrote.... ----- Original Message ----- > If you can't find anyone interested in the Seattle > area and its running, consider donating it to a local > high school computer club. (wiping away tears) Please don't let it go to such an end. From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 3 08:03:46 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: HP 5423A analyzer References: <00bc01c2bdab$3efcb000$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <8fgm3vg8sn2golulhg4j59b53ld1687kcl@4ax.com> <3E3BDBC0.40803@tiac.net> Message-ID: <01c501c2cb8c$685731c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Someone said this consists of 3 boxes. I have the box with the blue screen in it, and the box with the control/keyboard. I don't have the 3rd box mentioned. My first blush guess is that the monitor box has been dropped, I think the glass tube is toast. I won't get time to look at it any time soon, but getting a 21MX cpu board out of it as a spare might not be a bad thing. Thanks for the advice! From mbg at TheWorld.com Mon Feb 3 08:06:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: Overlays, GKS... (Was: Re: New to list) References: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E32B318.907FCC4C@Vishay.com> <3E341CB4.363B3474@compsys.to> <3E357AC4.8020509@Vishay.com> <3E35AA23.8DE1E590@compsys.to> <3E366764.7000503@Vishay.com> <3E38250D.7F07065A@compsys.to> <3E3927F1.7030704@Vishay.com> <3E3986D3.BB45768F@compsys.to> Message-ID: <200302031402.JAA113453177@shell.TheWorld.com> >Then what was the serial port called? - XL perhaps? - See how long ago >this was? It was called XL... the PRO300 series version of the same driver (a conditional assembly) was called XC. I was responsible for development of XL/XC/VTCOM/TRANSF package after taking it over from the original developer. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rborsuk at colourfull.com Mon Feb 3 08:21:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:28 2005 Subject: OT: Anyone in/near Cambridge, MA; Kansas City, KS; or Detroit, MI looking for IT work? In-Reply-To: <20030130170526.25917.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57001D36-3782-11D7-B0AA-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Hi Ethan, I wanted to take you up on your offer. I'm looking for a full time position. I'm located 20 minutes north of Detroit. Anything you can toss my way would help. Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com On Thursday, January 30, 2003, at 12:05 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I would like to share in my recent good fortune with folks on the list > (and pick up a referral bonus, naturally ;-) by attempting to hook > people up with internal job postings. > > Write me off-list (erd_6502@yahoo.com) and tell me where you are at > (from the above list of Cambridge, Kansas City or Detroit) and I'll > send back job decriptions for those locations. Unfortunately, not > much looks like ClassicCmp-type stuff (except the Mac Software Engr > position in Cambridge), but we all gotta have current skills to > keep on the treadmill. > > If you don't live within commuting distance of the above places, > please don't write and ask me what's available - The openings > for tech types are where I've described. > > Enjoy, > > -ethan From rborsuk at colourfull.com Mon Feb 3 08:46:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Sorry OffT - How about something on T - Altair In-Reply-To: <57001D36-3782-11D7-B0AA-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <78A6EFD6-3785-11D7-B0AA-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Hi All, Sorry, darn reply button. For an On Topic post, I'm looking for someone who can help me with the construction package for Altair 680. I need a copy of the schematics and the board layout for the front programmers panel. I'm trying to assemble the beast from scratch (I'm not doing too bad). I'm willing to pay for your time for some copies. Thanks Rob On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 09:18 AM, Robert Borsuk wrote: > Hi Ethan, > I wanted to take you up on your offer. I'm looking for a full > time position. I'm located 20 minutes north of Detroit. Anything you > can toss my way would help. > > Rob Borsuk > rborsuk@colourfull.com From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 3 08:52:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: ON/OFF topic (was:THIS THREAD MUST DIE) In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB75B@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <3E3E8FB5.19700.494EE05F@localhost> > Some of us are using very slow dial-up connections with even > more cumbersome web interfaces. The occasional off-topic post > is OK but this has gone way too far. I've gotten three additional > "pages" of mail headers due to this thread-just today. Err... So why do you then quote the whole previous post? Serious, we had enough of this on off topic discusion. There's CCTECH for all who want strict tech orientation, and CCTALK for the rest of us. There's basicly only one thing OFF topic on CCTALK, and that are mails about ON/OFF topic discusions. I didn't liek the split up. but now it is, and we should stay with this solution. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From msell at ontimesupport.com Mon Feb 3 09:07:01 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Airliners In-Reply-To: <200302021822.h12IMZlq025207@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030203085212.033e7860@127.0.0.1> Boeing 737-series? I can think offhand of two fatal accidents, relating to problems with the rudder. I think the problem was related to a faulty hydraulic valve causing rapid excursions of the rudder. - Matt At 12:22 PM 2/2/2003 -0600, you wrote: > > > ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle > > > program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete > craft/crew > > > losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still a > > > damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the > detractors may > > > say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > > > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > > > closest to beating this record...) Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Feb 3 09:11:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hi John, > > I'm with you... > I think that these people forget that every member of CCtalk get's these > off-topic things. > The solution for them who wants to go on with this off-topic non-sence is to > mail each other or to use ICQ. > > Why bother other people ? > > Michel > The last time I'd read about the issue, cc-talk IS for "off-topic" stuff. g. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 3 09:13:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Atari ST Help In-Reply-To: <20030203010936.33594.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030202180001.27747.29700.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E3E9466.21359.49613195@localhost> > I have my original Atari ST 512 still... You're not the last mountain standing. > 1. It has an AERCO Easie-ST Ram upgrade board in it, > that is no longer recognized. This board will use 1mb > x 8 chips to take the system to 4mb (which is max for > this machine). Never heared of. > I know it's a long shot, but does anyone have the > manual for this, or can point me to where I can get a > RAM upgrade for this old machine? Nup. Usualy these Boards just connected to the two additional bank select lines from memory decoding and did hook up the data/address bus. From my what I can tell, the chips usualy don't get bad. It is always the wireing, often just doen by clips to avoide soldering. Check them and chances are good to get it back to life. Wait, you said 512, as in a sraight 520, with just 512 K of Ram, the first series (together with the 256 K model)? Well, in this case you had to change more... The best way nowadays would be looking for a Mega ST 4, a Mega STE, or a Falcon. They are quite fine machine. > 2. I'd like to throw an 80mb SCSI External drive I > have on it, so I'm looking for a SCSI Adapter for an > ST. $100 + s/h for a new(?) one from one of the > remaining dealers is a bit steep... > Does anyone know of a cheaper source for one, or have > an old Atari Drive with a bad mechanism I can buy to > salvage the adapter? Again, the cheapest source is finding an Atari HD for your system. It would be pure luck to find a controller for the basic ST models Without an attached computer and Harddrive. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Feb 3 09:15:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: unsubcribe In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030203085212.033e7860@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 3 09:17:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: ADMIN Re: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE References: Message-ID: <029501c2cb96$da3a9340$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > The last time I'd read about the issue, cc-talk IS for "off-topic" stuff. I wouldn't go THAT far. cc-talk isn't the completely "off-topic free zone" that cc-tech is. However, we still don't want to get TOO terribly far off. This thread has. Jay West From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Feb 3 09:30:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: unsubscribe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Feb 3 09:57:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: ADMIN Re: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: <029501c2cb96$da3a9340$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > > The last time I'd read about the issue, cc-talk IS for "off-topic" stuff. > > I wouldn't go THAT far. cc-talk isn't the completely "off-topic free zone" > that cc-tech is. However, we still don't want to get TOO terribly far off. > This thread has. > Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification. g. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Feb 3 09:59:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Something for all you PS/2 fans References: Message-ID: <3E3E910A.2070906@Vishay.com> Any sound boards in there (which happen *not* to be M/ACPA)? - Shipping a complete system to Germany will certainly be expensive, but I've been looking for a soundboard to run with WinNT on a PS/2 for ages... vance@neurotica.com wrote: > Anyone want PS/2 Mod 95's? Apparently some of them have Type-IV (! -- > expensive) complexes. > > Peace... Sridhar -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From micheladam at theedge.ca Mon Feb 3 10:29:01 2003 From: micheladam at theedge.ca (micheladam@theedge.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Columbia Message-ID: <83531f24.1f248353@theedge.ca> I'll venture this guess: Concorde Only one loss of craft and passengers & crew. Statisticaly, measured in passenger/kilometers flown, it went from one of the best safety record to one of the worse, since there are so few of the planes... Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Worley" Date: Sunday, February 2, 2003 11:27 pm Subject: RE: Columbia > Maybe, but then again the plane is like an Italian rifle. Fired once, > dropped once. It is practically unused. I visited the museum > where it > is stored along with the QE? > > It is a really really big plane. I've flown on a C5A and it was > biggerstill (or so it seemed). > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 4:26 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Columbia > > > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that > comes > > closest to beating this record...) > > Howard Hughe's "Spruce Goose" has NEVER crashed. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Feb 3 10:34:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: OT: RoadRunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! References: <20030130150111.H9412-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3E3E99B6.9DC566EE@comcast.net> Bill Richman wrote: > > After getting a number of "Are you still alive?" messages from various > friends on the web, and having sent similar messages to them when I > received no response to other e-mails, I made an infuriating discovery. > RoadRunner is listed in several blacklists (dsbl.org for one), and a > number of ISPs are blocking e-mail from their domain... You know, this sort of thing may be why I haven't heard anything from Doc Shipley about some private business. Doc, let me know what's up, either way... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Feb 3 11:23:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives References: <3E3C09F0.A186FDDE@attbi.com> <3E3D5E53.4050300@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3E3EA422.70809@jetnet.ab.ca> Michael Davidson wrote: > Note that, while a "real" IDE interface requires a 16 bit > data path (or, in the case of an 8 bit system, additional > latches to handle the upper 8 bits of data) it's only the > actual data register that is 16 bits wide, so you *can* > greatly simplify the interface if you don't mind wasting > half the capacity of your storage device (ie you only use > the low byte in the 16 bit data transfers). The downside > of this, apart from wasting 50% of the storage, is that > the data is stored in every other byte on the media making > interchange with other systems a problem. > > http://www.burched.biz/products.html What looks to be better is a flash card interface like here. Ben. From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 3 11:48:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > > > In the lobby of the building was Gene Amdahl's first computer, not for > > sale. It was very interesting. I wonder where it is now? It was destined > > to be saved. > > It's in the Computer History Museum. It's quite an amazing machine, > considering he built it in high school! Sorry, my information is wrong. It was in fact his thesis project as has already been pointed out. (Doh!) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 3 11:56:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > I'm with you... > I think that these people forget that every member of CCtalk get's these > off-topic things. > The solution for them who wants to go on with this off-topic non-sence is to > mail each other or to use ICQ. > > Why bother other people ? I hate to burst the bubble of the relative newbies, but this war over on/off-topic messages has been going on as long as the list has been in effect. We had one (supposed) final argument over this several months ago whereby the solution was to create two lists: cctalk and cctech. On cctalk, anything can be discussed. There is no such thing as "off-topic". cctech, on the other hand, is moderated. You only get posts that are on-topic. As much as I hated the idea, I stuck with cctalk because I would rather control what I filter. And although I try (and sometimes fail) to keep my postings on topic, I almost always try to precede the message header with "OT" as a warning. I think for the most part it has worked, if anything to give the folks who just don't want off-topic banter to intrude on their classic computing an alternative. I think folks can use a little more self-control at times, but at any rate there is always cctech. If you do not want to participate in off-topic postings, might I suggest you unsubscribe from cctalk and re-subscribe to cctech? This is all been explained in the FAQ, and should have been explained to you when you signed up as well. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Feb 3 12:15:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: (OT) Hope everything is over now In-Reply-To: Message-ID: look who's talking?... I hate to say as a newbie... to someone who's already a long time here... there are other solutions to discuss other things than were this mailinglist was intend to be. ICQ... Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Sellam Ismail Verzonden: maandag 3 februari 2003 18:50 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: RE: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > I'm with you... > I think that these people forget that every member of CCtalk get's these > off-topic things. > The solution for them who wants to go on with this off-topic non-sence is to > mail each other or to use ICQ. > > Why bother other people ? I hate to burst the bubble of the relative newbies, but this war over on/off-topic messages has been going on as long as the list has been in effect. We had one (supposed) final argument over this several months ago whereby the solution was to create two lists: cctalk and cctech. On cctalk, anything can be discussed. There is no such thing as "off-topic". cctech, on the other hand, is moderated. You only get posts that are on-topic. As much as I hated the idea, I stuck with cctalk because I would rather control what I filter. And although I try (and sometimes fail) to keep my postings on topic, I almost always try to precede the message header with "OT" as a warning. I think for the most part it has worked, if anything to give the folks who just don't want off-topic banter to intrude on their classic computing an alternative. I think folks can use a little more self-control at times, but at any rate there is always cctech. If you do not want to participate in off-topic postings, might I suggest you unsubscribe from cctalk and re-subscribe to cctech? This is all been explained in the FAQ, and should have been explained to you when you signed up as well. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 3 12:28:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But the absolutley most OFF-TOPIC post of all, is sending an UNSUBSCRIBE message to the list. Everybody makes mistakes. But doing that TWICE invalidates one's rights to gripe about off-topic posts. The second most OFF-TOPIC topic is discusssion of stuff being off-topic. Followed even further down the list by Columbia (current news topic), and what computers it used. Time to return to discussions of guns and automobiles! Did "Computermuseum" even KNOW about cctech? On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > Hi John, > > I'm with you... > I think that these people forget that every member of CCtalk get's these > off-topic things. > The solution for them who wants to go on with this off-topic non-sence is to > mail each other or to use ICQ. > > Why bother other people ? > > Michel From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Feb 3 12:40:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) In-Reply-To: Megan "Re: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold)" (Feb 3, 0:20) References: from "2003 06:37:46 PM" <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> <200301071527.KAA109860720@shell.TheWorld.com> <3E1B1A35.10603@Vishay.com> <200302030520.AAA111277573@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <10302031836.ZM12836@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 3, 0:20, Megan wrote: > Yes, the 11/23 and 11/23+ use the same chips. The 11/24 and PRO300 > series also use the DCF11 chip. I don't know if they also use the > memory management chip... The 11/24 does, but I've no idea about the Pro. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Feb 3 12:44:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: (OT) Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: See below -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Verzonden: maandag 3 februari 2003 19:25 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: RE: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE The second most OFF-TOPIC topic is discusssion of stuff being off-topic. (HERE YOU GO AGAIN...... YOU... YOU... AGAIN.. AGAIN... PLEASE STOP THIS DISCUSIION) Followed even further down the list by Columbia (current news topic), and what computers it used. Time to return to discussions of guns and automobiles! Did "Computermuseum" even KNOW about cctech? From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Feb 3 13:29:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin's message of "Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:25:19 -0800 (PST)" References: Message-ID: <200302031918.h13JIdvo081623@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Yow, Grumpy Ol' Fred is top-posting: > But the absolutley most OFF-TOPIC post of all, is sending an UNSUBSCRIBE > message to the list. Everybody makes mistakes. But doing that TWICE > invalidates one's rights to gripe about off-topic posts. Here's a little clue for everyone. Every message from this list (and others run by Mailman I think) has some headers in it that tell you (among other things) how to subscribe and unsubscribe: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Some of these are even valid webby links, so may be usable by the pointy-clicky set. > Time to return to discussions of guns and automobiles! Don't forget the molten iron! -Frank McConnell From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Feb 3 13:29:59 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB75B@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <6DA1820A-37AD-11D7-99C6-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> Actually Columbia was nearly 30 years old. Since it was also a heavily computerized piece of equipment, it clearly falls within the Classiccmp realm. It is also natural to want to discuss something tragic like this with a community of people you're used to. On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 11:43 PM, John Willis wrote: > Some of us are using very slow dial-up connections with even > more cumbersome web interfaces. The occasional off-topic post > is OK but this has gone way too far. I've gotten three additional > "pages" > of mail headers due to this thread-just today. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail > Sent: Sun 2/2/2003 10:42 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: > Subject: Re: Columbia > > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > >>>> ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the > shuttle >>>> program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete > craft/crew >>>> losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's > still a >>>> damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the > detractors may >>>> say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make > the same >>>> claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that > comes >>>> closest to beating this record...) >>> >>> Southwest Airlines. >> >> Southwest Airlines is an airline, not airliner. He was asking >> for a model of passenger airplane. > > Got it. But they still have the best commercial record of any > (US-based > at least) airline ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > ------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which > had a name of winmail.dat] From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Feb 3 13:49:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: <200302031918.h13JIdvo081623@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: I think that you all didn't saw that i was forgotten to put an 's' inbetween the b and the c of unsub(s)cribe. That's why I posted it two times... so the one who clames that I posted 'unsubscribe' twice ... lies... Read your messages closely!!!!!!! Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Frank McConnell Verzonden: maandag 3 februari 2003 20:19 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE Yow, Grumpy Ol' Fred is top-posting: > But the absolutley most OFF-TOPIC post of all, is sending an UNSUBSCRIBE > message to the list. Everybody makes mistakes. But doing that TWICE > invalidates one's rights to gripe about off-topic posts. Here's a little clue for everyone. Every message from this list (and others run by Mailman I think) has some headers in it that tell you (among other things) how to subscribe and unsubscribe: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Some of these are even valid webby links, so may be usable by the pointy-clicky set. > Time to return to discussions of guns and automobiles! Don't forget the molten iron! -Frank McConnell From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Feb 3 13:50:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: FW from Usenet: S-100 modem wanted Message-ID: <200302031147330519.4FCE29E2@192.168.42.129> Perhaps someone on the list can help this fellow? Found in one of the ham radio groups on Usenet. Please respond directly to the original message author. I am not them. They are not me. I'm one of The Other Guys instead. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: "Alan" Newsgroups: alt.ham-radio.marketplace, rec.ham-radio.swap, rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors, rec.radio.amateur.equipment, rec.radio.amateur.homebrew NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.118.202.3 Subject: WTB: 300 BAUD S-100 bus modem I'm looking for any brand of S-100 bus modem, circa 1970'ish. If you have one, send me an email. Thanks. Alan -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 3 14:04:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: OT: Unsubscribability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > I think that you all didn't saw that i was forgotten to put an 's' inbetween > the b and the c of unsub(s)cribe. [snip] Of course you've sent *all* of them to the List, instead of to 'cctalk-request'..... > > Read your messages closely!!!!!!! Read your instructions closely!!!!!! > > Michel > [snip] > List-Unsubscribe: , > Cheers John From classiccmp at crash.com Mon Feb 3 14:07:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info Message-ID: <200302032003.h13K3lg22030@io.crash.com> pmulry wrote: > I recently aquired a Data General 4000 series server [...] It's highly possible that the NVRAM's lithium battery will have died ("gone flat") by now. This is the case with both the AV410 and AV4300 I have. My AV530s/5500 seem to be okay, but it's just a matter of time before they face the same problem. The machines with dead NVRAM will give some cryptic indication of the problem like printing "IDPROM" and nothing else, and refuse to initialize/boot on power-up. 'r. bear stricklin' was collecting NVRAM dumps for analysis, so we can try to load usable data into replacement parts, but I've no idea where that stands. I haven't bothered getting a part to see if, like Suns, the machine will function at all with an uninitialized NVRAM. Anyway if you search the archive for his name or Aviion I'm sure you'll find the relevant post. Or head to this URL: http://www.bears.org/~red/museum/aviion-nvram.html The 88k Aviions were frequently SMP capable, though unless you've got rackmount or square/big deskside units they're probably just 2-way. If you think the daughter card on yours is a second CPU complex, look for a chip marked 88100 or 88110; those are the CPUs. The 88200's or 88410 are cache/MMU chips. DG/UX will support SMP out of the box. It's a decent enough SVR4 implementation, with X11 (R?) and some sort of logical volume system. If you're looking for media I may be able to help out, contact me directly/off-list (smj0302 _ crash _ com). Martin Marshall wrote: > http://www-csc.dg.com/csc If you dig around under there, there's a wealth of PDF files about various models. Operations guides, some about installing options and upgrading, low-level programming for a few models. There's been sporadic interest in getting *BSD running on the Aviions, but little activity. OpenBSD runs on several Motorola 88k boards, and I've recently managed to assemble the parts for a complete system, but that's as far as it's gone. I have no history porting OSes, and I'm much more focused on trying to find a job now, so you don't want to hold your breath waiting for me... --Steve. From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Feb 3 14:10:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: HP2100 References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030130214203.028bc2c0@mail.zipcon.net> <3E3BDAB7.6030802@tiac.net> <01bd01c2cb8c$2a125660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E3ECCE7.10102@tiac.net> This lists collective memory is amazing. Jay West wrote: >Bob wrote... >----- Original Message ----- > >>Jay West really needs one of these! >> > >Thanks for speaking up in my abscence Bob! Yes, I definitely need one of >these. Quite badly. Geoff - is it available?? From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Feb 3 14:13:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives References: <3E3C09F0.A186FDDE@attbi.com> <3E3D5E53.4050300@pacbell.net> <3E3EA422.70809@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3E3ECDA4.9070909@tiac.net> For an 8-bit system, one 8255 and one hex inverter and you have a full 16-bit IDE interface. ben franchuk wrote: > Michael Davidson wrote: > >> Note that, while a "real" IDE interface requires a 16 bit >> data path (or, in the case of an 8 bit system, additional >> latches to handle the upper 8 bits of data) it's only the >> actual data register that is 16 bits wide, so you *can* >> greatly simplify the interface if you don't mind wasting >> half the capacity of your storage device (ie you only use >> the low byte in the 16 bit data transfers). The downside >> of this, apart from wasting 50% of the storage, is that >> the data is stored in every other byte on the media making >> interchange with other systems a problem. >> >> > http://www.burched.biz/products.html > What looks to be better is a flash card interface > like here. > Ben. From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 3 14:19:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: (OT) Hope everything is over now In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > I hate to say as a newbie... to someone who's already a long time > here... there are other solutions to discuss other things than were this > mailinglist was intend to be. Er, I don't think you fully understood the point of my message. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 3 14:20:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > I think that you all didn't saw that i was forgotten to put an 's' inbetween > the b and the c of unsub(s)cribe. > > That's why I posted it two times... so the one who clames that I posted > 'unsubscribe' twice ... lies... > > Read your messages closely!!!!!!! You're off-topic!!!!!!! Oh wait, this is CCTALK. My bad! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Feb 3 14:23:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Unsubscribability In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What's the difference between spam and these rediculous mails... I don't now... Please stop this crap.... Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens John Lawson Verzonden: maandag 3 februari 2003 21:01 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: OT: Unsubscribability On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > I think that you all didn't saw that i was forgotten to put an 's' inbetween > the b and the c of unsub(s)cribe. [snip] Of course you've sent *all* of them to the List, instead of to 'cctalk-request'..... > > Read your messages closely!!!!!!! Read your instructions closely!!!!!! > > Michel > [snip] > List-Unsubscribe: , > Cheers John From alanp at snowmoose.com Mon Feb 3 14:27:00 2003 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies Message-ID: <20030203202422.7B05442C1C@smtp-relay.omnis.com> >> Actually, DEC is still somewhat around -- it was absorbed into Compaq in >> 1997, and, of course, Compaq was absorbed into HP last year. As such, >> HP now holds all the rights and histories to everything DEC and Compaq. >> DEC/Compaq provided contract on-site tech support to my current and past >> two retail firms. HP provides those services now, with the same (if >> older) DEC and Compaq field techs. I still work with many of them in my >> current tech support position. > >But DEC as a company is long gone. I am *well* aware of what happened >with the DEC -> Compaq -> HP thing. I don't know. A friend of mine still has his DEC e-mail address. >> And, while we're asking, does anyone know what happened to Burroughs? >> As I left the Air Force in 1991, I was working with a cantankerous, >> already jurassic, cobbled-together system produced by "Convergent >> Technologies -- an abortive fusion of Burroughs and NCR. It's "banded" >> 512K memory board nearly neasured a square foot by 1.5" thick, and was >> banded to *prevent* it from accessing a full 1Mb of memory. >Burroughs and Sperry merged to form Unisys. OK, what happened to the things that made Burroughs Burroughs? I worked there from 1986 to 1989. The B1000 machines were EOL'ed when I got there and I pretty much had the B1965 at Lake Forest (Orange Co., CA) to myself doing support for HOSTLINK and GEMCOS. I think Art Sorkin (Mr. B1000 MCP) had one in Mission Viejo doing MCP support. I never cared much for the Pasadena machines (the V-Series or Medium systems) and I don't know when they were EOL'ed. There was a lot of B5000/Large System/A-Series hardware development after I left, but I don't know what happened to those machines. Is anyone still commercially running any of this hardware? I am not sure which CT machines you are talking about or if you have the full story on CT. When I joined Burroughs, they were selling a line of desktop computer called B20 (even though there were B3x machines). These machines were made by CT and ran an OS called BTOS (a variant on CT's own CTOS). They were kinda cool because the form factor for each component was something like a 10" tall by 10" deep by 4" wide box (called a 'slice') and you added slices together (say, a CPU slice, a display slice and a disk slice) to make a working computer. alan From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Feb 3 14:45:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: OT: RoadRunner Blacklisted, Blocking Bounce Messages! In-Reply-To: <3E3E99B6.9DC566EE@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Bill Richman wrote: > > > > After getting a number of "Are you still alive?" messages from various > > friends on the web, and having sent similar messages to them when I > > received no response to other e-mails, I made an infuriating discovery. > > RoadRunner is listed in several blacklists (dsbl.org for one), and a > > number of ISPs are blocking e-mail from their domain... > > You know, this sort of thing may be why I haven't heard anything from > Doc Shipley about some private business. > Doc, let me know what's up, either way... Hey. Not RR, just me looking for a round tuit. I just got back from a month on the road. Your package will go out tomorrow, without fail. Doc From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 3 14:50:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <20030203202422.7B05442C1C@smtp-relay.omnis.com> References: <20030203202422.7B05442C1C@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Alan Perry wrote: > > OK, what happened to the things that made Burroughs Burroughs? I worked > there from 1986 to 1989. The B1000 machines were EOL'ed when I got I was AT MPG in Camarillo, CA for a part of that time frame, as a QA Engineer on the various office products running under BTOS on the 'Slices'. Probably - no, for *sure* - the singularly most boring job I've ever suffered thru. But it paid the Bills after my first foray into Entrepreneurship ended up where most such do... on the expensive scrap-heap. > there and I pretty much had the B1965 at Lake Forest (Orange Co., CA) to Small World dept: My 11/44 came from that facility, and supervised all the building facilities stuff: power, HVAC, and production line alarms. So if you blew something up, shorted something out, or called for Unauthorized Sector Environmental Temperature Mis-regulation (because it was 'too warm' in your office, and you adjusted the Thermostat yourself...) my machine is the one that ratted on you. ;} Cheers John From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 3 14:57:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > I think that you all didn't saw that i was forgotten to put an 's' inbetween > the b and the c of unsub(s)cribe. > That's why I posted it two times... so the one who clames that I posted > 'unsubscribe' twice ... lies... > Read your messages closely!!!!!!! It was in the subject line. I couldn't find anything to read in the messages. But UNSUBCRIBE sent to the list is certainly much more on-topic than UNSUBSCRIBE. My deepest apologies for the incorrect accusation. From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 3 15:19:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Unsubscribability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > What's the difference between spam and these rediculous mails... I don't > now... "Spam" generally refers to an e-mail message that is sent out in bulk quantities to large amounts of recipient adresses in an unsolicited way... most often as advertising for some product or service. Spam, since it is a bulk message generator, is objectionable to many becuae it is unwanted and causes moderate to sever dgradation of storage and forwarding resources. 'These rediculous mails' are being sent by me to the List in order to try and remove the ongoing confusion that several Listmembers seem to have concerning Subscribing/Unsubscribing. > > Please stop this crap.... > I will inform you, pleasantly, that using the word 'crap' in relation to what I thought was a helpful message to you (and others), is faintly insulting, and certainly not the way I personally choose to deal with my freinds and fellow collectors here, Michel. As the unsubscribe process seems to be giving you persistent trouble, I will try to be of help once more. In order to "stop this crap", please perform the following steps: 1. Open a New Document in your mail program. 2. Address the message to 'cctalk-request@classiccmp.org' You may cut-and-paste in between the quotes: don't include them. 3. In the To: (or Subject:) field of your mail program, type the word 'unsubscribe'. Leave out the quotes, or cut/paste as above. 4. In the body of the mail (the place where you write the message) leave it blank... don't type any words. 5. Send the mail after you've checked it for accuracy and errors. If all goes well, the 'spam and the 'crap' will magically vanish from your mailbox, and you and the List (and I) can get on with our various interests. Then, maybe you'll be in a better overall mood than you seem to be right now. I wish you well, and thanks for your contributions to the List. Cheers John From red at bears.org Mon Feb 3 15:32:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info In-Reply-To: <200302032003.h13K3lg22030@io.crash.com> References: <200302032003.h13K3lg22030@io.crash.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Steve Jones wrote: > 'r. bear stricklin' was collecting NVRAM dumps for analysis, so > we can try to load usable data into replacement parts, but I've > no idea where that stands. I haven't bothered getting a part to > see if, like Suns, the machine will function at all with an > uninitialized NVRAM. Anyway if you search the archive for his > name or Aviion I'm sure you'll find the relevant post. Or head > to this URL: http://www.bears.org/~red/museum/aviion-nvram.html It's true, I am. The project is languishing at the moment for lack of some 'breakthrough' data. I have what I was able to restore my AV310CD to, and several different samples from AV530 systems. I'm hoping somebody will donate NVRAM dumps from some other models. I have only two AViiONs at the moment, and the only one that is known good is too new to support the 'examine memory' command at the console monitor. My AV310 came to me with a dead NVRAM, and is mostly running now with a new 48T02, that I reprogrammed with as much information as I knew about. THere are still a few glitches I believe are related to missing information in the NVRAM; the biggest one is related to the graphics configuration and is preventing X from starting. The good news is a lot of the most important stuff in the NVRAM is easily recoverable, and that unlike Suns, the ethernet MAC address is stored in non-volatile storage. I should write a recovery procedure with as much information as I know now. I was hoping to do it when the whole mystery had been unravelled, but in the meanwhile folks should be able to get their systems recovered enough to at least boot the OS. I'm always happy to answer questions relating to resurrecting old m88k AViiONs. ok r. From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Feb 3 15:37:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Unsubscribability In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John, Thank you for the kind assistance. I will unsubscribe myself now in a couple of minutes... Thank you for helping me out... I think you are the smartest guy of these whole Columbia- & airplane-group to explain me how to unsubscribe Thank you so much Michel. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens John Lawson Verzonden: maandag 3 februari 2003 22:16 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: OT: RE: Unsubscribability On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > What's the difference between spam and these rediculous mails... I don't > now... "Spam" generally refers to an e-mail message that is sent out in bulk quantities to large amounts of recipient adresses in an unsolicited way... most often as advertising for some product or service. Spam, since it is a bulk message generator, is objectionable to many becuae it is unwanted and causes moderate to sever dgradation of storage and forwarding resources. 'These rediculous mails' are being sent by me to the List in order to try and remove the ongoing confusion that several Listmembers seem to have concerning Subscribing/Unsubscribing. > > Please stop this crap.... > I will inform you, pleasantly, that using the word 'crap' in relation to what I thought was a helpful message to you (and others), is faintly insulting, and certainly not the way I personally choose to deal with my freinds and fellow collectors here, Michel. As the unsubscribe process seems to be giving you persistent trouble, I will try to be of help once more. In order to "stop this crap", please perform the following steps: 1. Open a New Document in your mail program. 2. Address the message to 'cctalk-request@classiccmp.org' You may cut-and-paste in between the quotes: don't include them. 3. In the To: (or Subject:) field of your mail program, type the word 'unsubscribe'. Leave out the quotes, or cut/paste as above. 4. In the body of the mail (the place where you write the message) leave it blank... don't type any words. 5. Send the mail after you've checked it for accuracy and errors. If all goes well, the 'spam and the 'crap' will magically vanish from your mailbox, and you and the List (and I) can get on with our various interests. Then, maybe you'll be in a better overall mood than you seem to be right now. I wish you well, and thanks for your contributions to the List. Cheers John From d_l_mcd at hotmail.com Mon Feb 3 15:39:01 2003 From: d_l_mcd at hotmail.com (Daniel McDonald) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Dolch Logic Instruments 8086 Trace Module.... Message-ID: I got this thing (Dolch Logic Instruments 8086 Trace Module) along with a bunch of other stuff at auction. If it is of any use to anybody, let me know right away. Otherwise it will soon get scrapped or trashed or binned or skipped, and it looks too nice a piece of work for that. Best regards, Dan McDonald Bellows Falls, Vermont USA From computermuseum at pandora.be Mon Feb 3 15:43:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Appologies accepted.. no harm done... (I hope I did not harm you as well...:-) Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Verzonden: maandag 3 februari 2003 21:55 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: RE: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > I think that you all didn't saw that i was forgotten to put an 's' inbetween > the b and the c of unsub(s)cribe. > That's why I posted it two times... so the one who clames that I posted > 'unsubscribe' twice ... lies... > Read your messages closely!!!!!!! It was in the subject line. I couldn't find anything to read in the messages. But UNSUBCRIBE sent to the list is certainly much more on-topic than UNSUBSCRIBE. My deepest apologies for the incorrect accusation. From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Feb 3 16:28:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Signetics 82S153 question Message-ID: <200302032217.h13MHMtr085309@daemonweed.reanimators.org> I have some 82S153s which I would like to read. What I'm wondering is, can I tell my PLD-reader (a Data I/O 29A w/LogicPak and 303A-001 p/t head) that what I'm reading is a PHL (presumably Philips, who owned Signetics at the time) PLS153, and successfully (and non-destructively read) the parts? It would appear that Data I/O changed the firmware, and the family/pinout codes, between what they were when they supported the 82S153 and the PLS153, and I don't know the history or differences between the parts. So I'm a little bit nervous about just popping parts in and trying it. -Frank McConnell From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Feb 3 16:28:41 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: "Computermuseum"'s message of "Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:42:53 +0100" References: Message-ID: <200302032205.h13M5Gt3085155@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Computermuseum" wrote: > I think that you all didn't saw that i was forgotten to put an 's' inbetween > the b and the c of unsub(s)cribe. Didn't really care either, just trying to be helpful (and yank Fred's chain about forgetting the molten iron). I see you claim to be leaving for real now, so mind the door/bottom interface! -Frank McConnell From allain at panix.com Mon Feb 3 17:08:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies References: <20030203202422.7B05442C1C@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Message-ID: <006001c2cbd8$c8fd1980$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- There was a lot of B5000/Large System/A-Series hardware +AD4- development after I left, but I don't know what happened +AD4- to those machines. Is anyone still commercially running +AD4- any of this hardware? I got a lot of help for A-series MCP just 1.5 years ago on comp.sys.unisys, FWIW. John A. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Feb 3 17:43:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: FW: DEC Pro 350 Message-ID: <001501c2cbdd$66c71810$46f8b8ce@impac.com> The gentleman below is looking for a replacement video card for his DEC Pro-350. I don't have anything for him, but I was hoping someone on the list might be able to help him out. Please contact him at the email address shown below if you can do anything for him. Thank you, Erik -----Original Message----- From: michael allegretta [mailto:mikeallegretta@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 2:13 PM To: webmaster@vintage-computer.com Subject: DEC Pro 350 I have a DEC Pro 350 that I value for running Fortran programs. The monochrome video generator board is on its way out. Is it possible to get a replacement? Regards, Mike From at258 at osfn.org Mon Feb 3 20:50:01 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <018701c2cb8b$caccb060$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: I think there is a place in Orange, NJ that sells 2100'S and parts. On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Jay West wrote: > Oh mannnnnnnnnn I'm out sick for a few days, and what do I see? Tons of > posts on HP2100A systems, something I am desperately looking for!! I don't > just want this "because I think it might be interesting". I want it so that > I can get probably the only running HP2000 Access system in existence BACK > up. What's worse is to see something needed to resurrect a real piece of > history being offered to a high school computer club to "play with". > GRRRRRRRR > > As I posted a few weeks ago, I am in desperate need of an HP2100 cpu to get > my Access system back up. If anyone knows where one might be lurking that I > could acquire, I would be MOST grateful. > > Thanks! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoff Reed" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:05 PM > Subject: HP2100 > > > > Is a HP 2100 worth rescuing ? and if I were to rescue it is there anyone > > who be interested in it (I'm out of room) > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Feb 3 20:52:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, ...) In-Reply-To: <001f01c2cb3e$51b43290$6401a8c0@benchbox> References: <00a601c2cb11$df564250$434a1942@starfury> <001f01c2cb3e$51b43290$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jeffrey S. Worley, from writings of Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 11:39:56PM -0500: > groundpounder E3. I wouldn't be surprised if a fair chunk of the list > was dumb enough at one time or other to sign up for Uncle Sugar. > I'm a gulf-war vet. Spent about seven months in a nowhere place called [...] Like many others on this list, I had to sign up for Uncle Sam Screwge's draft at the local post office, but at least now I'm too old to have to go. Sorry that he and 'W'easelboy's daddy snagged you into the gulf-war as one of their experimental guinnea pigs. Hopefully you won't get called back into part II of the Bush/Hussein family feud. By the way... today the Sears repairman arrived to verify the validity of complaints from my parents about their new washer and dryer (absolute pieces of cheaply-made and annoying junk - beware) that replaced approx. 25 and 35 year old machines that were well made and worked nicely (until Sears/Whirlpool discontinued parts to repair them with). His eyes nearly popped out of his head as he looked around at my collection of electronics and computer equipment; as he was leaving, he remarked that he hopes that no one calls the eff b aye about what all I have, as they might think I'm "building a satellite or something." Zog! Now, are those of us in the US to be considered criminals because we collect, build and hack all sorts of computer and electronics equipment as a harmless hobby (or is the knowledge and ability to do this now considered dangerous by our elected idiots, since they obviously lack the ability to think intelligently about anything?)? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 3 20:57:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:29 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions Message-ID: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> Does anyone remember what was required to convert an IBM Selectric Typewriter to a computer printer? I seem to recall a kit of some sort was available, but my memory is *really* hazy about that. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Feb 3 21:11:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: DEC7000 Rackmount docs? Message-ID: Does anyone know where I could find documentation for a *rackmount* DEC7000? HPaq has plenty for the cabinet model, but I need to get into a rackmount unit and I'd like to RTFM *before* I take wrenches to it. I know that's heresy, but that's the way I am.... Doc From primate at mindspring.com Mon Feb 3 21:14:00 2003 From: primate at mindspring.com (Neil Carpenter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, ...) References: <00a601c2cb11$df564250$434a1942@starfury> <001f01c2cb3e$51b43290$6401a8c0@benchbox> <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <003f01c2cbfb$2c079740$0100a8c0@primate> > <...snip...>Zog! Now, are those of us in the US to be considered > criminals because we collect, build and hack all sorts of computer and > electronics equipment as a harmless hobby (or is the knowledge and > ability to do this now considered dangerous by our elected idiots, > since they obviously lack the ability to think intelligently about > anything?)? > You're thinking too much -- the guy from Sears was clearly the idiot. From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Mon Feb 3 21:15:01 2003 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions References: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> Message-ID: <01b601c2cbfb$289b6e60$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> I converted a 2741 (20 yrs ago) since it already had all the solenoids intact. I think I used an ancient Byte article that gave instructions and some sample 8080 code - mostly lookup tables indicating which solenoids needed energizing for each char. It took, in all something like 12-17 coil drivers - including "shift". The 2641 did caps by first shifting, then printing - needed a delay subroutine. Perhaps it's listed in a Byte index or Best of Byte books. I don't think it would be feasible to do on a non-2741 unit, as you would have to find and connect to all those linkages - unless you connect a solenoid to ~each~ key ;) Get yourself an ASR-33 - much more fun and better noises! (I once had an ASR than moved itself off a table with each carriage return- until it went "thump" one too many times" and fell 2 feet to the concrete floor - still kept printering and worked flawlessy afterwards and continues to do so AFAIK... Heinz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: "ClassicCmp" Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 9:54 PM Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions > Does anyone remember what was required to convert an IBM Selectric > Typewriter to a computer printer? I seem to recall a kit of some sort > was available, but my memory is > *really* hazy about that. From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 3 21:16:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> References: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Does anyone remember what was required to convert an IBM Selectric > Typewriter to a computer printer? I seem to recall a kit of some sort Modified Selectrics were used, ISTR, as consoles on several models of mid-60's BIg Blue Iron. They spoke, of course, EBCDIC. There were kits in the early BYTE mags to make these units transcieve ASCII. Making a 'manual' Selectric into an ASR or even RO machine is "mechanically non-trivial" as they might say. IMHO, of course, knowing a little bit about how the Selectric tosses it's element around. Metallic VooDoo I heard one tech refer to it. Cheerz John From mbg at TheWorld.com Mon Feb 3 21:25:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies Message-ID: <200302040322.WAA113997810@shell.TheWorld.com> >>But DEC as a company is long gone. I am *well* aware of what happened >>with the DEC -> Compaq -> HP thing. > >I don't know. A friend of mine still has his DEC e-mail address. That doesn't mean anything... up until I was layed off from HP, my DEC email address (@zk3.dec.com) still worked, though that domain is scheduled to go away at some point. They've been working site by site to remove the old dec stuff and replace it with @hp.com. Megan From dittman at dittman.net Mon Feb 3 21:53:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: DEC7000 Rackmount docs? In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Feb 03, 2003 09:08:12 PM Message-ID: <200302040350.h143oCf3006797@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Does anyone know where I could find documentation for a *rackmount* > DEC7000? HPaq has plenty for the cabinet model, but I need to get into > a rackmount unit and I'd like to RTFM *before* I take wrenches to it. > I know that's heresy, but that's the way I am.... Don't the rackmount chassis internals closely match the cabinet chassis internals? I seem to remember the rackmount chassis is just the internals of the cabinet chassis split out. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 3 21:58:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Dolch Logic Instruments 8086 Trace Module.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030203225842.128f85c2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dan, DON'T SCRAP IT! I'm pretty sure that it's for the Dolch Colt Logic Analyzer/ Pattern Generator/ Eprom Programmer. I used to have one of them. It's a dammed neat instrument and it runs MPM! It runs up to 17 processes simultanously and has a heap of Z-80s in it. I gave mine to Bob Rief. Get the module to me and I'll get it to Bob. If you have any othe runidentified pieces let me know and I'll try to find out if they're for the Colt too. The one that I had was pretty complete except for the manuals. Joe At 04:31 PM 2/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >I got this thing (Dolch Logic Instruments 8086 Trace Module) along with a >bunch of other stuff at auction. If it is of any use to anybody, let me know >right away. Otherwise it will soon get scrapped or trashed or binned or >skipped, and it looks too nice a piece of work for that. > >Best regards, > >Dan McDonald >Bellows Falls, Vermont >USA From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Feb 3 22:01:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: DEC7000 Rackmount docs? In-Reply-To: <200302040350.h143oCf3006797@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Does anyone know where I could find documentation for a *rackmount* > > DEC7000? HPaq has plenty for the cabinet model, but I need to get into > > a rackmount unit and I'd like to RTFM *before* I take wrenches to it. > > I know that's heresy, but that's the way I am.... > > Don't the rackmount chassis internals closely match the cabinet > chassis internals? I seem to remember the rackmount chassis is > just the internals of the cabinet chassis split out. I wanna know how to get the damn thing *open* Not immediately obvious, either. Doc From livewire at netadel.com Mon Feb 3 23:11:00 2003 From: livewire at netadel.com (livewire@netadel.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Apple IIe + disk drive controller wanted Message-ID: <1044309731.3e3ee6e338a47@www.netadel.com> Anyone in the south or east bay have a spare Apple IIe with disk controller or just a spare disk controller they would part with cheap or free? I'm finally getting through a couple of higher-priority projects and have time to start on my "Get a ddial up and running again" project. Thanks! From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 3 23:44:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, ...) In-Reply-To: <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <00a601c2cb11$df564250$434a1942@starfury> <001f01c2cb3e$51b43290$6401a8c0@benchbox> <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <13218823546.20030203234203@subatomix.com> On Monday, February 3, 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > the gulf-war ... Hopefully you won't get called back into part II of the > Bush/Hussein family feud. It's OT, but I simply can't resist posting this. Whether or not you support a USA-vs-Iraq war, this is just friggin' funny. http://aztlan.net/attack.htm > By the way... today the Sears repairman arrived ... His eyes nearly popped > out of his head as he looked around at my collection of electronics and > computer equipment; as he was leaving, he remarked that he hopes that no > one calls the eff b aye about what all I have, as they might think I'm > "building a satellite or something." Just remark in return that you hope no one decides to use their PDP-11/70 Digital Death Ray on him! :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Tue Feb 4 00:00:00 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Otter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, ...) In-Reply-To: <13218823546.20030203234203@subatomix.com> References: <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3E3EE5C8.30027.5AEB08E@localhost> Right Click - Save. :) Is Saddam really a lard-ass, or was his image touched up electronically? Oh, and here's another humorous off topic piece... http://www.onion.com/onion3903/un_orders_wonka.html Possibly our next target after Iraq. -- Otter From: Jeffrey Sharp To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, ...) Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:42:03 -0600 > On Monday, February 3, 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > > the gulf-war ... Hopefully you won't get called back into part II of > > the Bush/Hussein family feud. > > It's OT, but I simply can't resist posting this. Whether or not you > support a USA-vs-Iraq war, this is just friggin' funny. > > http://aztlan.net/attack.htm > > > By the way... today the Sears repairman arrived ... His eyes nearly > > popped out of his head as he looked around at my collection of > > electronics and computer equipment; as he was leaving, he remarked > > that he hopes that no one calls the eff b aye about what all I have, > > as they might think I'm "building a satellite or something." > > Just remark in return that you hope no one decides to use their > PDP-11/70 Digital Death Ray on him! :-) > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Feb 4 00:10:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, ...) In-Reply-To: <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > Now, are those of us in the US to be considered > criminals because we collect, build and hack all sorts of computer and > electronics equipment as a harmless hobby (or is the knowledge and > ability to do this now considered dangerous by our elected idiots, > since they obviously lack the ability to think intelligently about > anything?)? Well, given that the DCMA is a standing U.S. federal law, you can probably answer that question yourself. But basically, the Sears repairman was right; didn't you know that it's a federal crime to try to understand those systems you're collecting? -brian. From dan at ekoan.com Tue Feb 4 01:06:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Interest in IBM Token Ring NICs? In-Reply-To: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030204020232.04af2670@enigma> Was there someone on the list recently looking for token ring stuff? This past weekend I picked up three IBM Token Ring NICs, part number 83X9144A. These are full-length 8-bit ISA cards. Contact me off-list if anyone is interested. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 4 01:15:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <001201c2cab7$b7759ec0$434a1942@starfury> References: <3E3CEEBD.3090306@aconit.org> <001201c2cab7$b7759ec0$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <15574.207.55.102.77.1044342731.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> ETILLMAN@satx.rr.com wrote: > As such, > HP now holds all the rights and histories to everything DEC and Compaq. Bzzzt! Guess again! Five examples, but there are undoubtedly others: * disk drives, now at Maxtor * tape drives, now at Quantum * StrongARM processor, support chips, and networking chips, now at Intel * networking equipment, was at Cabletron -- they fissioned and I'm not sure which resulting company wound up with it * most PDP-11 software, now at Mentec From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 4 01:23:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. In-Reply-To: <3E3D393D.5040905@tiac.net> References: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> <3243.4.20.168.110.1043717141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3BCDCC.60803@tiac.net> <32994.63.224.195.20.1044134081.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3D393D.5040905@tiac.net> Message-ID: <15580.207.55.102.77.1044343259.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Bob Shannon wrote: > Take a look at the interface schematics for the 13037 (interface) versus > the 12821A. There is near-zero doubt that > these need totally different drivers, as MAC disks make a good deal of > lower-level information > available to the controller than CS/80 does. I'm not asking whether an -H drive on a 12821A looks like a non-H on a 13037. I know they don't. The 12821 has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with my question, which was whether the -H and non-H drives attached to a 13037 look the same to software. Whether RTE supports H drives on a 13037 also has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with my question. But I'd be somewhat surprised if it didn't; the HPIB option on the 13037 had to have been used by *something*. From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Tue Feb 4 02:00:01 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, ...) In-Reply-To: <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <00a601c2cb11$df564250$434a1942@starfury> <001f01c2cb3e$51b43290$6401a8c0@benchbox> <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <61425.62.148.198.97.1044345440.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> R. D. Davis said: > my collection of electronics and computer equipment; as he was > leaving, he remarked that he hopes that no one calls the eff b aye > about what all I have, as they might think I'm "building a satellite > or something." Zog! Person 1: "Respected Evil Overlord Jarkko, what are thou scheming with this Evil Collection of Vintage Machinery ?" Evil Overlord Jarkko: "I shall build a satellite!" Satellites are bad, something must be done!!!! -- jht From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 4 02:02:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <001201c2caed$f08a4a90$6401a8c0@benchbox> References: <001201c2caed$f08a4a90$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <15621.207.55.102.77.1044345551.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I think they are on-topic. We've got four Ibm 360's onboard. No, they have five AP-101S General Purpose Computers on board. The AP-101S and the earlier AP-101B are derived from the computer used in the F-15 fighter. The architecture actually quite a bit different from that of the System/360, though there are similarities. The System/360 had sixteen 32-bit general registers, while the AP-101 has two separate sets of eight registers. The System/360 could address sixteen megabytes, but the AP-101 can only address one megabyte, and it is awkward to address more than 256 Kbytes. But the AP-101B is over ten years old, and I think *some* of the AP-101S computers are, so they're on-topic. Space Shuttle issues other than the computers are off-topic. Does anyone have the manuals for HAL/S, the language used for the AP-101 software? There's some info on it at: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/computers/Appendix-II.html From SPEDRAJA at ono.com Tue Feb 4 02:35:00 2003 From: SPEDRAJA at ono.com (Sergio Pedraja Cabo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Columbia - Computers Message-ID: <8cfab1d8.b1d88cfa@ono.com> Hi everybody: > Space Shuttle issues other than the computers are off-topic. Having in mind Eric's recommendation, I do this change of subject to difference this thread from others more, ehh... "off-topic". > Does anyone have the manuals for HAL/S, the language used for the > AP-101 software? There's some info on it at: > http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/computer Some time ago appeared one manual on eBay. I couldn't obtain it. But my interest is still active. Greetings Sergio From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 4 02:39:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> References: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> Message-ID: <15654.207.55.102.77.1044347798.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Does anyone remember what was required to convert an IBM Selectric > Typewriter to a computer printer? I seem to recall a kit of some sort > was available, but my memory is > *really* hazy about that. There were two ways to do that. The more common method was to put a thing with one solenoid per key over the Selectric's keyboard. This had the advantage that no modification to the Selectric was required. The more clever (IMHO) mod was to attach seven solenoids to the Selectric between the keyboard encoding mechanism and the print mechanism, to directly control the tilt and rotate. And two more for the carriage return and paper advance. This has the advantage that you can still use it as a typewriter without having to attach and remove the solenoid box, and it's potentially less expensive since it takes nowhere near as many solenoids. I seem to recall that Don Lancaster wrote a do-it-yourself article about this approach. Either way, though, you don't end up with a particularly great printer. The Selectric typewriters weren't meant to be pounded on continuously at anywhere near their full speed, since that wasn't how typewriters were used (even by *very* good typists). IBM made "I/O Selectrics," which had heavy-duty mechanisms intended for continuous output. Model numbers that come to mind are the 1052 and 753, though my memory regarding these seems more than a little fuzzy. There were also Selectric-based terminals like the 2741, which were AFAIK not quite as heavy-duty as the 1052, but still better than a typewriter. Trivia: although the Selectric typewriter wasn't introduced until 1962, the first production units were delivered to customers in 1961, as part of the operator console for the IBM 7030 Data Processing System (Stretch). Since it wasn't an announced product, all the publicity photos of Strech had a person, sign, or other item strategically placed to obstruct the view of the typewriter. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Feb 4 02:46:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> References: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Does anyone remember what was required to convert an IBM Selectric > Typewriter to a computer printer? I seem to recall a kit of some sort > was available, but my memory is *really* hazy about that. I have in storage a modified Selectric console/terminal and interface box that works with a TRS80 model 1. I got both from the original owner years ago along with the model 1. The interface box was sold assembled, and wasn't a kit. It also seemed to be very well made. -Toth From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 4 08:25:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <15654.207.55.102.77.1044347798.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.co m> References: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030204092822.467794a6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:36 AM 2/4/03 -0800, you wrote: >> Does anyone remember what was required to convert an IBM Selectric >> Typewriter to a computer printer? I seem to recall a kit of some sort >> was available, but my memory is >> *really* hazy about that. > Speaking of interfacing Selectrics. I was talking to my father about Teletypes the other day and he told me that he had thrown out an old "word processor" (my term not his). He said that it was a desk sized mechanical unit that had a keyboard and mechanical printer along with a paper tape punch/reader. He said that you could type in a letter and insert a pause any place where you wanted to insert unique data such as a name. The unit would save everything on punched paper tape. You could then feed the PT back into and it would type the letter. When it got to the pause it would stop and let you manually type in the name or other data and then it would continue and finish the letter. Does anyone know what these thing was? I think he must have gotten this after I left home because I don't remember ever seeing it. Unfortunately he threw it away several years ago. Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 4 09:05:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: HP2100 References: Message-ID: <011001c2cc5e$5abfb320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Well!?!?! DO tell! Company name? Phone number? Enquiring minds and all :) From livewire at netadel.com Tue Feb 4 09:19:01 2003 From: livewire at netadel.com (Live Wire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Apple IIe + disk drive controller wanted References: <1044309731.3e3ee6e338a47@www.netadel.com> Message-ID: <002c01c2cc60$5758f690$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> Sorry - I need to clarify: SF Bay, (ie Mtn View, Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, or east like Pleasanton, Livermore, etc) Thanks :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 2:02 PM Subject: Apple IIe + disk drive controller wanted > Anyone in the south or east bay have a spare Apple IIe with disk controller or > just a spare disk controller they would part with cheap or free? > > I'm finally getting through a couple of higher-priority projects and have time > to start on my "Get a ddial up and running again" project. > > Thanks! From allain at panix.com Tue Feb 4 09:19:46 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions References: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> Message-ID: <004201c2cc60$61691ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > IMHO, of course, knowing a little bit about how the > Selectric tosses it's element around. Metallic VooDoo > I heard one tech refer to it. Agree completely. I took one apart years ago and deep inside were two compound lever assemblies, which could sound complicated, but what they did was find a kind of breathtaking simplicity. The lever mechanism worked exactly like the way a Mobile hangs and balances several inputs to one output. (picture below). I'd like to congratulate the inventor of that one. (begin fixed width) + | +---+---+ | | + +--+---+ | | + + (end fixed width) John A. From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Feb 4 09:35:00 2003 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Apple IIe + disk drive controller wanted In-Reply-To: <002c01c2cc60$5758f690$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> Message-ID: Try Weirdstuff Warehouse (north of 237 on the road parallel to the bay) They have tons of disk drives. Surely they have some controllers. George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Live Wire wrote: > Sorry - I need to clarify: SF Bay, (ie Mtn View, Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, or > east like Pleasanton, Livermore, etc) > > Thanks :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 2:02 PM > Subject: Apple IIe + disk drive controller wanted > > > > Anyone in the south or east bay have a spare Apple IIe with disk > controller or > > just a spare disk controller they would part with cheap or free? > > > > I'm finally getting through a couple of higher-priority projects and have > time > > to start on my "Get a ddial up and running again" project. > > > > Thanks! From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Feb 4 09:42:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030204092822.467794a6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > At 12:36 AM 2/4/03 -0800, you wrote: > >> Does anyone remember what was required to convert an IBM Selectric > >> Typewriter to a computer printer? I seem to recall a kit of some sort > >> was available, but my memory is > >> *really* hazy about that. > > > > Speaking of interfacing Selectrics. I was talking to my father about > Teletypes the other day and he told me that he had thrown out an old "word > processor" (my term not his). He said that it was a desk sized mechanical > unit that had a keyboard and mechanical printer along with a paper tape > punch/reader. He said that you could type in a letter and insert a pause any > place where you wanted to insert unique data such as a name. The unit would > save everything on punched paper tape. You could then feed the PT back into > and it would type the letter. When it got to the pause it would stop and let > you manually type in the name or other data and then it would continue and > finish the letter. Does anyone know what these thing was? I think he must > have gotten this after I left home because I don't remember ever seeing it. > Unfortunately he threw it away several years ago. > > Joe > Sounds like a Friden Flexowriter, You could punch codes to pause for user input, or read names etc from an auxilliary paper taper reader allowing automatic form letter generation. The Flexowriter uses a typebar mechanism like a normal mechanical typewriter. I used to have the ASCII terminal version of the Flexowriter (model 7102 - one of the few Flexowriters with built in electronics) There is also a Selectric based paper tape word processor called Mach-10 (AFAICR) Peter Wallace From at258 at osfn.org Tue Feb 4 09:43:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Computer Solutions 397 Park Avenue Orange, NJ 07056 973-672-6000 www.internetcsi.com/ M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From dancohoe at oxford.net Tue Feb 4 09:44:00 2003 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <011001c2cc5e$5abfb320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000e01c2cc63$d5dbdde0$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jay West > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:02 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: HP2100 > > > Well!?!?! DO tell! Company name? Phone number? Enquiring > minds and all :) > Jay, Try this: http://www.internetcsi.com/mail.htm regards, Dan Cohoe From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Feb 4 09:50:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: OT Re: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, ...) In-Reply-To: <13218823546.20030203234203@subatomix.com> References: <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3E3FEEFA.31261.4EAB055B@localhost> > On Monday, February 3, 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > > the gulf-war ... Hopefully you won't get called back into part II of the > > Bush/Hussein family feud. > It's OT, but I simply can't resist posting this. Whether or not you support > a USA-vs-Iraq war, this is just friggin' funny. > http://aztlan.net/attack.htm Just tried, result: The requested URL could not be retrieved The following error was encountered: URL blocked by SmartFilter. This means that:The requested URL has been defined as belonging to the blocked category Forbidden, this page (http://aztlan.net/attack.htm) is categorized as: Hate Speech, Opinion, Politics, and Religion Jep, having an opinion is a bad thing > > By the way... today the Sears repairman arrived ... His eyes nearly popped > > out of his head as he looked around at my collection of electronics and > > computer equipment; as he was leaving, he remarked that he hopes that no > > one calls the eff b aye about what all I have, as they might think I'm > > "building a satellite or something." Beeing a good citizen means having no idea about anything. > Just remark in return that you hope no one decides to use their PDP-11/70 > Digital Death Ray on him! :-) :)) See, and good citizens would even belive you! Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dtwright at uiuc.edu Tue Feb 4 09:54:01 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info In-Reply-To: References: <200302032003.h13K3lg22030@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <20030204155145.GF108296@uiuc.edu> I have an AV4300 that I have not yet gotten resurrected, due to lack of RAM. When I put in the RAM that I thought would work (which turned out to be DEC-compatible memory) it said "Fatal Memory Error" on the console (serial -- I don't think it has a graphics head, unless the BNC labeled "VDU" is a monochrome video connector...). Anyway, does anyone know where I can get memory for this thing, prefereably cheap or free? ;) I've found some resellers online, but their prices are far from either of those things... r. 'bear' stricklin said: > > It's true, I am. > > The project is languishing at the moment for lack of some 'breakthrough' > data. I have what I was able to restore my AV310CD to, and several > different samples from AV530 systems. I'm hoping somebody will donate > NVRAM dumps from some other models. > > I have only two AViiONs at the moment, and the only one that is known good > is too new to support the 'examine memory' command at the console monitor. > My AV310 came to me with a dead NVRAM, and is mostly running now with a > new 48T02, that I reprogrammed with as much information as I knew about. > THere are still a few glitches I believe are related to missing > information in the NVRAM; the biggest one is related to the graphics > configuration and is preventing X from starting. > > The good news is a lot of the most important stuff in the NVRAM is > easily recoverable, and that unlike Suns, the ethernet MAC address is > stored in non-volatile storage. I should write a recovery procedure with > as much information as I know now. I was hoping to do it when the whole > mystery had been unravelled, but in the meanwhile folks should be able to > get their systems recovered enough to at least boot the OS. > > I'm always happy to answer questions relating to resurrecting old m88k > AViiONs. > > ok > r. - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Feb 4 09:56:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: OT Re: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: <3E3FEEFA.31261.4EAB055B@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 4, 03 04:48:58 pm Message-ID: <200302041549.KAA24128@wordstock.com> And thusly Hans Franke spake: > > > http://aztlan.net/attack.htm > > Just tried, result: > > The requested URL could not be retrieved > The following error was encountered: > URL blocked by SmartFilter. > This means that:The requested URL has been defined as belonging to > the blocked category Forbidden, this page (http://aztlan.net/attack.htm) > is categorized as: Hate Speech, Opinion, Politics, and Religion > Hmmm... I don't see *Satire* in that list! Cheers, Bryan P.S. Is this blocking local to your ISP or is it national? From kentborg at borg.org Tue Feb 4 09:59:00 2003 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <01b601c2cbfb$289b6e60$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>; from h.wolter@sympatico.ca on Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 10:11:49PM -0500 References: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> <01b601c2cbfb$289b6e60$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <20030204105619.B15468@borg.org> On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 10:11:49PM -0500, Heinz Wolter wrote: > Get yourself an ASR-33 Easier said than done. -kb, the Kent who still hasn't found one. From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Feb 4 10:12:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <011001c2cc5e$5abfb320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030204081413.06530af0@mail.zipcon.net> I haven't committed to anyone yet. there are a few people interested.... THis is a 2100A and I have 2 terminals that go with it. From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Feb 4 10:21:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030204081413.06530af0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <011001c2cc5e$5abfb320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030204082135.02694b50@mail.zipcon.net> DOH! intended to go personally to 1 person.... ANyways, this winblows machine has eathen itself partially, and I need anyone who was interested in this beast to email me :( I am looking to recoup my cost on this beast, the guy I got it from wante dot sell it or scrap it, so I paid him for it. At 08:15 AM 2/4/03 -0800, you wrote: >I haven't committed to anyone yet. there are a few people interested.... > > THis is a 2100A and I have 2 terminals that go with it. From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 4 10:22:01 2003 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions - looking for ASR-33 References: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> <01b601c2cbfb$289b6e60$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> <20030204105619.B15468@borg.org> Message-ID: <006401c2cc69$2bdc85a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Sadly, true. I gave mine to a friend with a 1 transistor rs232 to 20mA loop interface built into the DIN plug, to connect directly to the TRS COCO. A single BASIC poke for the bitbashed software UART made the 110bd work. When Radio Shaft came out with OS-9 for the COCO, I immeditate bought it and hooked up an opto to make the ASR-33 into a terminal. With OS-9 on the the ~.9MHz COCO, it was a matter of whoever hit enter first got the floppy drive!(multi-user!) I was the first with a multi-user operating system on the block ;) It functioned as great printer but slow for many years.... I've never been able to find another, more less in that pristine shape - ie clean oil, and not a speck of dirt! Anybody have a stash of workting ASR-33s out there? and know of a cheap shipping company ;) It would make a lovely PDP11/10 console ;) Heinz "Kent Borg" wrote: > On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 10:11:49PM -0500, Heinz Wolter wrote: > > Get yourself an ASR-33 > > Easier said than done. > > -kb, the Kent who still hasn't found one. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Feb 4 10:22:16 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Columbia - Computers In-Reply-To: <8cfab1d8.b1d88cfa@ono.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Sergio Pedraja Cabo wrote: > > Does anyone have the manuals for HAL/S, the language used for the > > AP-101 software? There's some info on it at: > > http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/computer > > Some time ago appeared one manual on eBay. I couldn't obtain it. > But my interest is still active. There are only one other relevant url I could find on HAL/S: http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~spaceuk/hals/hals.html And then this one, from the same site, on the computer: http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~spaceuk/stscpu/stscpu.html And here's one on the people and process behind the code: http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.html -brian. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 4 10:26:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: PeeCee obtained 5000AT Message-ID: <019d01c2cc69$bd2a65e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Recently obtained a *BLUSH* old PC. Normally wouldn't post about it here but... someone may be interested in a copy of the software on it. This thing is kind of a slimline desktop case, has a 3.5 floppy and 5.25 floppy. It's a leading edge model 5000AT. I think it is a 286. But what might be interesting to some is, it comes with something called "windos" I believe, and is a leading edge specific "make the computer simple" GUI sort of. Basically just lets you point and click to call 123, easywriter, etc. I thought someone might be interested in the software & gui files. God I feel dirty now *G* From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Feb 4 10:34:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: PeeCee obtained 5000AT In-Reply-To: <019d01c2cc69$bd2a65e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Feb 4, 03 10:23:23 am Message-ID: <200302041627.LAA31964@wordstock.com> And thusly Jay West spake: > > might be interesting to some is, it comes with something called "windos" I > believe, and is a leading edge specific "make the computer simple" GUI sort > of. Basically just lets you point and click to call 123, easywriter, etc. I > thought someone might be interested in the software & gui files. I am assuming this is text based? I remember this type of idea on 386 or 486 Packerd Bell's. But that was a GUI interface, running atop of Windows 3.1 I always thought these were A Bad Idea, since the user would only know how to use the simple interface and never learn the "real" OS behind it. Cheers, Bryan From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Feb 4 10:35:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: OT Re: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: <200302041549.KAA24128@wordstock.com> References: <3E3FEEFA.31261.4EAB055B@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 4, 03 04:48:58 pm Message-ID: <3E3FF98C.7078.4ED44E53@localhost> > > > http://aztlan.net/attack.htm > > Just tried, result: > > The requested URL could not be retrieved > > The following error was encountered: > > URL blocked by SmartFilter. > > This means that:The requested URL has been defined as belonging to > > the blocked category Forbidden, this page (http://aztlan.net/attack.htm) > > is categorized as: Hate Speech, Opinion, Politics, and Religion > Hmmm... I don't see *Satire* in that list! Nop, serious. > P.S. Is this blocking local to your ISP or is it national? Company Account. Tey think they have to 'save' their employees. so I still get all the Spam Mails, and can of yourse go onto all the new sex sites... -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 4 10:38:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: PeeCee obtained 5000AT References: <200302041627.LAA31964@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <01bb01c2cc6b$73333d20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Brian wrote.. > I am assuming this is text based? I remember this type of idea on 386 or > 486 Packerd Bell's. But that was a GUI interface, running atop of Windows > 3.1 Nope, this was graphical, not character based. The computer booted into the gui, and when you clicked on like "program manager" it gave you a gui list of programs configured (you could add & modify). If you clicked on those with the mouse, the computer switched to character mode and ran the character based application. Jay From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Feb 4 10:42:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <004201c2cc60$61691ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> <004201c2cc60$61691ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, John Allain wrote: > > Agree completely. I took one apart years ago and deep > inside were two compound lever assemblies, which could > sound complicated, but what they did was find a kind of This arrangement is called a whiffletree, and has been in use since Antiquity - often to evenly distribute the tractive effort of teams of draft animals. Also, pipe organs used them as a binary-to-analog convertor, turning the small motions of several wind pouches into a smooth-ish mechanical motion, eg. for swell shades, etc. The Selectric was elegant as hell, but VooDoo nonetheless. Cheers John From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Feb 4 10:46:01 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Pro_Log STD BUS manuals needed Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127437@MAIL10> Hello, all: I bought a STDBUS instrumentation computer off of eBay last week for $9, and it has some interesting boards in it. Unfortunately, the boards are mostly older Pro-Log models and information is sparse. I've made contact with the "legacy" manufacturer who wants $50 per manual for two of the boards. I found information for two of them on VersaLogic's Web site. So, here's the list of boards. If any one has original Pro-Log manuals for these that they can copy and send me, please contact me off-list. Pro-Log# Description 7303 DSKY (Display/keyboard module) 7502 Relay output module (8 relays) 7605 Programmable I/O 7806-1 Z80 CPU card (I have copy of VersaLogic's manual) Other P-L boards from another system I have: Pro-Log# Description 7805-1 8085 CPU card 7604A 64-bit digital I/O (I have copy of VersaLogic's manual) Thanks again for any help. Rich From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Feb 4 10:54:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > [much snippage] > > Teletypes the other day and he told me that he had thrown out an old "word > > processor" (my term not his). He said that it was a desk sized mechanical > > unit that had a keyboard and mechanical printer along with a paper tape > > punch/reader. He said that you could type in a letter and insert a pause any I had the 'desk' part of one of these when I was in High School... it had been converted by an older Ham friend of mine to do RTTY, and then given to me. At this remove of time, I don't remember if it was 5-level native, or whether it was 8-level and just didn't use all the holes. I'd like to say it was an IBM product. It had Friden readers (2) and a BRPE punch, with reels for the tape mounted on it's front. I used mainly thyratrons (2D21) to fire the punches and do logic. I had several 'canned' tapes pre-punched, with mysterious-sounding 'TOP SECRET!!!' messages I had written. When friends were over, Ihave everything cued up and running, and at the right time, would secretly hit the 'read' switch, and the "Secret" message would begin printing on my Model 15. Then of course, I'd let them read enough of it to think I was a spy before I threw them out of my room until the 'secret' message was finished printing... then of course I'd refuse to acknowledge it... Jeeezzzz what a Nerd! Anyway... this was in the late 60s, and the device was probably made early in the decade... it had that rounded-corner, grey crackle-finish look to it. Cheers John From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 4 10:58:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, ...) In-Reply-To: <13218823546.20030203234203@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > It's OT, but I simply can't resist posting this. Whether or not you support > a USA-vs-Iraq war, this is just friggin' funny. > > http://aztlan.net/attack.htm That's great! Here's another one that says it all: http://www.siconic.com/crap/Rumsfuck.jpg Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 4 11:09:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030204081413.06530af0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > I haven't committed to anyone yet. there are a few people interested.... > > THis is a 2100A and I have 2 terminals that go with it. I nominate Jay. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Feb 4 11:09:26 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, Although this has come up a few times already, I am going to bring it up again. Come kick my butt if you don't like it :) Given the volume of the list, and the many off-topic (lets not discuss what is and is not on-topic here) talk, I would like to propose [again] that we do like other lists do: insert a tag [cctalk] in the Subject: line of the postings, so it's easy to distinguis the postings from other, perhaps more pressing e-mail. Selecting/filtering based on sender address doesn't work well for all clients, and depends on the ability to use processing rules in the first place. As said, most lists out there already use this technique, it's been accepted more or less as a standard, so can we *please* use something like this ? I don't want to start Yet Another Discussion, a mere vote would do, as we're all techies who know what this is about. Cheers, Fred From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Feb 4 11:29:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: PeeCee obtained 5000AT In-Reply-To: "Jay West"'s message of "Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:35:38 -0600" References: <200302041627.LAA31964@wordstock.com> <01bb01c2cc6b$73333d20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200302041714.h14HEQQm005666@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Jay West" wrote: > Nope, this was graphical, not character based. The computer booted into the > gui, and when you clicked on like "program manager" it gave you a gui list > of programs configured (you could add & modify). If you clicked on those > with the mouse, the computer switched to character mode and ran the > character based application. So tell us, Jay, how do you feel about PAM on an HP Vectra? As near as I can tell the only difference is how fancy they get with the video controller. -Frank McConnell From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 4 11:53:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Given the volume of the list, and the many off-topic (lets not discuss > what is and is not on-topic here) talk, I would like to propose [again] > that we do like other lists do: insert a tag [cctalk] in the Subject: > line of the postings, so it's easy to distinguis the postings from > other, perhaps more pressing e-mail. <...> > I don't want to start Yet Another Discussion, a mere vote would do, as > we're all techies who know what this is about. As long as the tag is placed AFTER the subject text then I have no issue. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From owad at applefritter.com Tue Feb 4 11:54:02 2003 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:30 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <15654.207.55.102.77.1044347798.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <15654.207.55.102.77.1044347798.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20030204173957.7342@mail.lafayette.edu> >The more clever (IMHO) mod was to attach seven solenoids to the >Selectric between the keyboard encoding mechanism and the print >mechanism, to directly control the tilt and rotate. And two more >for the carriage return and paper advance. This has the advantage >that you can still use it as a typewriter without having to attach >and remove the solenoid box, and it's potentially less expensive >since it takes nowhere near as many solenoids. I seem to recall >that Don Lancaster wrote a do-it-yourself article about this >approach. Lancaster's "TV Typewriter" book includes a description. >Either way, though, you don't end up with a particularly great printer. >The Selectric typewriters weren't meant to be pounded on continuously >at anywhere near their full speed, since that wasn't how typewriters >were used (even by *very* good typists). > >IBM made "I/O Selectrics," which had heavy-duty mechanisms intended >for continuous output. Model numbers that come to mind are the >1052 and 753, though my memory regarding these seems more than a >little fuzzy. This is disappointing. I'd been on the lookout for a Selectric for the purpose of performing this hack (Powerbook G4 USB->Parallel->Selectric), but chances of finding one of these models looks pretty slim. Maybe I'll dig out my Xerox MemoryWriter and try to interface that... Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Feb 4 12:18:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: PeeCee obtained 5000AT In-Reply-To: <019d01c2cc69$bd2a65e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Jay West wrote: > This thing is kind of a slimline desktop case, has a 3.5 floppy and 5.25 > floppy. It's a leading edge model 5000AT. I think it is a 286. But what > might be interesting to some is, it comes with something called "windos" I > believe, and is a leading edge specific "make the computer simple" GUI sort > of. Basically just lets you point and click to call 123, easywriter, etc. I > thought someone might be interested in the software & gui files. It's possible that your "Windos" software might prove useful to people like the "Lindows" legal team, depending on the date of the Windos release. -brian. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 4 12:23:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <15654.207.55.102.77.1044347798.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > > Does anyone remember what was required to convert an IBM Selectric > > Typewriter to a computer printer? I seem to recall a kit of some sort > > was available, but my memory is > > *really* hazy about that. On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > There were two ways to do that. > The more common method was to put a thing with one solenoid per key > over the Selectric's keyboard. This had the advantage that no > modification to the Selectric was required. The two most popular ones of those were the Rochester Dynatyper (which had an interface board with two edge connectors - one for plugging into Apple ][ bus, and other for TRS-80 model 1 expansion connector), and the KGS-80, (which had a Centronics compatible parallel port input). > The more clever (IMHO) mod was to attach seven solenoids to the > Selectric between the keyboard encoding mechanism and the print > mechanism, to directly control the tilt and rotate. And two more > for the carriage return and paper advance. This has the advantage > that you can still use it as a typewriter without having to attach > and remove the solenoid box, and it's potentially less expensive > since it takes nowhere near as many solenoids. I seem to recall > that Don Lancaster wrote a do-it-yourself article about this > approach. I remember there being an outfit in Walnut Creek that sold a kit for mounting under the keyboard of a selectric. > Either way, though, you don't end up with a particularly great printer. > The Selectric typewriters weren't meant to be pounded on continuously > at anywhere near their full speed, since that wasn't how typewriters > were used (even by *very* good typists). Some (most?) selectrics were rated at a maximum of 14.8 characters per second. That is oft cited for the reason for existence of the 150 baud rate on many modems. I knew one professional typist who could AVERAGE 150 wpm on an 8 hour day! She could "wear out" a selectric during the "warranty" period. > IBM made "I/O Selectrics," which had heavy-duty mechanisms intended > for continuous output. Model numbers that come to mind are the > 1052 and 753, though my memory regarding these seems more than a > little fuzzy. > There were also Selectric-based terminals like the 2741, which were > AFAIK not quite as heavy-duty as the 1052, but still better than a > typewriter. And there were special dedicated heavy duty ones for cranking out dead tree spam, that would permit storing a document, and pausing for a typist to fill in blanks. "Dear ___, of all of the families living on ____ street, ..." That included the MTST ("Magnetic Tape Selectric Typewriter") and later the MCSC ("Magnetic Card Selectric Typewriter"). I remember one fellow writing an early microcomputer mail merge program that he wanted to call "the FULL ST", but nobody got the pun with MTST. Sellam probably still has the service manual from my MTST. > Trivia: although the Selectric typewriter wasn't introduced until > 1962, the first production units were delivered to customers in 1961, > as part of the operator console for the IBM 7030 Data Processing > System (Stretch). Since it wasn't an announced product, all the > publicity photos of Strech had a person, sign, or other item > strategically placed to obstruct the view of the typewriter. Trivia2: There were numerous type balls for the selectric, including APL! From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 4 12:33:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030204092822.467794a6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > Speaking of interfacing Selectrics. I was talking to my father > about Teletypes the other day and he told me that he had thrown out an > old "word processor" (my term not his). He said that it was a desk > sized mechanical unit that had a keyboard and mechanical printer along > with a paper tape punch/reader. He said that you could type in a > letter and insert a pause any place where you wanted to insert unique > data such as a name. The unit would save everything on punched paper > tape. You could then feed the PT back into and it would type the > letter. When it got to the pause it would stop and let you manually > type in the name or other data and then it would continue and finish > the letter. Does anyone know what these thing was? I think he must It was a dead-tree spam generator. > have gotten this after I left home because I don't remember ever > seeing it. Unfortunately he threw it away several years ago. There were numerous such devices. For paper tape, the Friden flexowriter comes to mind, but there were dozens of others. Later, there was magnetic tape and magnetic cards (IBM MTST, MCST) From primate at mindspring.com Tue Feb 4 12:35:01 2003 From: primate at mindspring.com (Neil Carpenter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags References: Message-ID: <014b01c2cc7b$c102b8e0$0100a8c0@primate> > As long as the tag is placed AFTER the subject text then I have no issue. > If the goal is to be able to filter visually & sort based on origin, that's counterproductive. If you want a vote, I'll throw whole-hearted support behind a tag at the beginning of the message. From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Feb 4 12:39:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Trivia2: There were numerous type balls for the selectric, including APL! ^^^^^^^^^^ TSK! TSK! TSK!!! ELEMENTS!!! I mean, honestly - we are *supposed* to be experts here, right??? :} Cheers Swami Triviananda From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Feb 4 12:43:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <014b01c2cc7b$c102b8e0$0100a8c0@primate> References: <014b01c2cc7b$c102b8e0$0100a8c0@primate> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Neil Carpenter wrote: > > If you want a vote, I'll throw whole-hearted support behind a tag at the > beginning of the message. > Yes, please... *every* other maillist I subscribe to has [mailistname] prepended to the "Subject" field...except for Classiccmp, which generates three times the message traffic the others do combined... Having the [maillistname] at the *end* of the 'Subject:' text makes no sense whatsoever, begging the Right Honorable Sellam's pardon on the matter. Cheerz John From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 4 12:53:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags References: <014b01c2cc7b$c102b8e0$0100a8c0@primate> Message-ID: <005301c2cc7e$32386ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> People wrote... > Yes, please... *every* other maillist I subscribe to has [mailistname] > prepended to the "Subject" field...except for Classiccmp, which generates > three times the message traffic the others do combined... I personally prefer to have the listname in the subject field [cctech] for example. I really can't say way, I just like it that way. Maybe it's because every list I have ever been on has it that way, and we all know how prone people are to think the first way is the "best way" *GRIN*. That being said - this has come up for discussion several times in the past, and pretty much the majority of people said don't put it in so I left it out. However, if the majority opinion has changed, I'd be happy to add it back. Tis up to you folks! :) Jay West From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 4 12:56:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, John Lawson wrote: > On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Trivia2: There were numerous type balls for the selectric, including APL! > ^^^^^^^^^^ > TSK! TSK! TSK!!! ELEMENTS!!! > I mean, honestly - we are *supposed* to be experts here, right??? > :} Sorry It has truly been a long time, and that part of my memory hasn't been refreshed in several decades. But surely not everybody went along with IBM's mandated nomenclature! From chu at verizon.net Tue Feb 4 13:31:00 2003 From: chu at verizon.net (chu@verizon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 Message-ID: <20030204192846.QTAQ23484.out001.verizon.net@[192.168.129.213]> I just bought a PDP 11/73, but unfortunately UPS dropped it on the way. So I am trying to what ever documentation and diagnostics that I can locate to figure out how badly it was damaged. The mounts for the tape drive and disk drive were broken as well as all of the external plastic. The machine powers up and goes through some self diagnostics, stopping with the LED's reading "01". The disk drive stays quite and unlit, my conclusion was that it appears dead. I am looking for any help that I can get. TIA, Dave Chu From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Feb 4 13:41:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0C@mwsrv04.microwalt.n l> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204142049.025e3ad0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Fred N. van Kempen may have mentioned these words: >Although this has come up a few times already, I am going to bring it >up again. Come kick my butt if you don't like it :) Awrighty -- I got my Size 9.5(US) Lacrosse Icemans on right now... ;-) Wham. Wham. Wham. Wham. Wham. -- Ascii representation of the sound of a dead horse getting beaten once again... :-( >Given the volume of the list, and the many off-topic (lets not discuss >what is and is not on-topic here) talk, I would like to propose [again] >that we do like other lists do: insert a tag [cctalk] in the Subject: >line of the postings, so it's easy to distinguis the postings from >other, perhaps more pressing e-mail. Not just no... *Hell no*... >Selecting/filtering based on sender address doesn't work well for all >clients, and depends on the ability to use processing rules in the >first place. Then filter on the headers! It's not that hard... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Received: from ted.kwcorp.com (imail.kwcorp.com [209.83.143.147] (may be forged)) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h14Iq2m50008 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:52:02 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jwest@classiccmp.org) Received: from jwest [172.16.51.3] by imail.kwcorp.com (SMTPD32-7.12) id AB5BD990224; Tue, 04 Feb 2003 12:50:03 -0600 Message-ID: <005301c2cc7e$32386ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= These are all unique headers to this list. Any MUA worth its salt can filter on any one of these... even some not worth it, like LookOut Hexpress... >As said, most lists out there already use this technique, it's been >accepted more or less as a standard, so can we *please* use something >like this ? Accepted by whom? All but one of the lists I'm on *don't do this* (not to mention the ones I admin) and the one that did I disliked, and unsubbed as soon as a better list was available... And this is a "standard" just like HTML email is currently a "standard" - it's not even compatible with itself, and in all, it's just a plain bad idea... IMH-But-SysAdmin-Based-O... >I don't want to start Yet Another Discussion, a mere vote would do, as >we're all techies who know what this is about. That sounds like the beginning of a 2-hour-pissing-match I had with my father-in-law a *long* time ago... "I'm not saying this because you don't want to become an auctioneer..." In all fairness, if it were a *user configurable* option, I wouldn't give a whit, so long as I could turn it off... otherwise, you know my vote... but how many times do we have to vote on this, anyway??? Prost, "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From kth at srv.net Tue Feb 4 13:43:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 References: <20030204192846.QTAQ23484.out001.verizon.net@[192.168.129.213]> Message-ID: <3E401C69.4040503@srv.net> chu@verizon.net wrote: >I just bought a PDP 11/73, but >unfortunately UPS dropped it >on the way. So I am trying to >what ever documentation and >diagnostics that I can locate >to figure out how badly it was >damaged. >The mounts for the tape drive and >disk drive were broken as well as >all of the external plastic. >The machine powers up and goes through >some self diagnostics, stopping with the >LED's reading "01". The disk drive stays >quite and unlit, my conclusion was that it >appears dead. >I am looking for any help that I can get. > >TIA, >Dave Chu > > > What is reported on the console port? Plug in a terminal/etc and see what it tells you. If there is a problem, it should display a more useful error message. I believe that at 01, it is trying to boot the software from wherever it is set up to boot from. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 4 13:44:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: References: <014b01c2cc7b$c102b8e0$0100a8c0@primate> Message-ID: <3635.4.20.168.144.1044387701.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> John wrote" > Yes, please... *every* other maillist I subscribe to has [mailistname] > prepended to the "Subject" field...except for Classiccmp, which > generates three times the message traffic the others do combined... Please DON'T do this. Only about 5% of the mailing lists I subscribe to have this, and it annoys the heck out of me because it just keeps me from seeing that many characters of the subject line in the summary view. ANY decent MUA (mail reader) can filter on the other header fields to put your cctalk mail into its own separate folder. I've been told that even the d#%@ Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express can do that. > Having the [maillistname] at the *end* of the 'Subject:' text makes no > sense whatsoever, begging the Right Honorable Sellam's pardon on the > matter. Agreed, that would make no sense. Just as putting it before the subject text makes no sense. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 4 13:51:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? Message-ID: <20030204194901.78823.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> I am needing to burn PLCC-packaged chips in my DIP programmer. I expect I need to locate a PLCC<->DIP adapter of the right size (for 29C010 and 28F101 Flash chips, at the moment). Thinking about it made me wonder if any of the sockets were ZIF or LIF. Any ideas? Any recommendation on a source for adapters? Thanks, -ethan From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Feb 4 13:56:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Sun tapes Message-ID: I have a bunch of old Sun tapes I need to get rid of, as I no longer run any Sun-3 or Sun-4 machines. Most of these are real Sun distributions (although they look cheesy) of SunOS 4.1 and 4.1.1, plus SunLink and Openwindows. There also might be some third party stuff. I think all of these tapes actually have data on them, but I no longer have a suitable tape drive to verify them (so maybe expect a few to be flakey). Anyone need these tapes (about 13 1/4" QIC-24, I think) for cheap? For the lot - $8 plus shipping for 10512? I thik I also have quite a few unused 1/4" tape carts, also cheap. Real cheap. Contact me off list... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Feb 4 14:00:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? In-Reply-To: <20030204194901.78823.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I am needing to burn PLCC-packaged chips in my DIP programmer. I > expect I need to locate a PLCC<->DIP adapter of the right size > (for 29C010 and 28F101 Flash chips, at the moment). Thinking about it > made me wonder if any of the sockets were ZIF or LIF. > > Any ideas? Any recommendation on a source for adapters? Yes, they exist. Flip a latch and the top opens, and you drop the chip in - true ZIF. I grabbed a bunch one day back when I worked at USR (back when they used to let people take home surplus), but I have no idea where they went. If I find them, I will let you know. You do not want to have to buy one of these things - they are NOT cheap! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Feb 4 14:07:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? In-Reply-To: <20030204194901.78823.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I am needing to burn PLCC-packaged chips in my DIP programmer. I > expect I need to locate a PLCC<->DIP adapter of the right size > (for 29C010 and 28F101 Flash chips, at the moment). Thinking about it > made me wonder if any of the sockets were ZIF or LIF. Sure, they have bottom mounted spring contacts and a lid to compress the PLCC chip against them. > > Any ideas? Any recommendation on a source for adapters? Emulation Technology... > > Thanks, > > -ethan > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 4 14:14:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <014b01c2cc7b$c102b8e0$0100a8c0@primate> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Neil Carpenter wrote: > > As long as the tag is placed AFTER the subject text then I have no issue. > > > > If the goal is to be able to filter visually & sort based on origin, that's > counterproductive. > > If you want a vote, I'll throw whole-hearted support behind a tag at the > beginning of the message. My vote is to end all this discussion now and forever and ban it from the list in perpetuity and ban anyone from the list who brings it up ever again and make everyone who joins the list to read the FAQ and to send in something valuable (like their wallet) to swear by that they read the FAQ and they don't get it back until they either get kicked off or they leave. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Feb 4 14:20:01 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? In-Reply-To: <20030204194901.78823.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030204140958.01ac9b40@ubanproductions.com> Ethan, I needed to do the same and so I made my own adapter. In my case, I needed a PLCC32 to DIP to burn a 32Kx8 PLCC OTP PROM, so I took a 28 pin machine socket and wired it to a thru-hole 32 pin PLCC socket. Here is a pic: http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/plcc_to_dip.jpg Yes, you can certainly buy adapters like this (only more professional) from most of the companies that make programmers, but they are pretty pricey -- probably $100+. --tom At 11:49 AM 2/4/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I am needing to burn PLCC-packaged chips in my DIP programmer. I >expect I need to locate a PLCC<->DIP adapter of the right size >(for 29C010 and 28F101 Flash chips, at the moment). Thinking about it >made me wonder if any of the sockets were ZIF or LIF. > >Any ideas? Any recommendation on a source for adapters? > >Thanks, > >-ethan From jwb at paravolve.net Tue Feb 4 14:22:00 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (James W.Brinkerhoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.20 sources and binaries In-Reply-To: <20030202163001.77c67776.jwb@paravolve.net> References: <0302010150.AA21709@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <20030202163001.77c67776.jwb@paravolve.net> Message-ID: <20030204151737.7a7076bb.jwb@paravolve.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:30:01 -0500 "James W.Brinkerhoff" wrote: # -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- # Hash: SHA1 # # I'm currently downloading this and would be more than happy to throw it up on a T3 pipe for anyone interested. Reply to me personally and I'll set something up. (If anyone has the rest of the sources and tape archives available on the original site on a slightly faster connection *please* let me know and I'll mirror that as well) For all who are interested, I've put up all the source at the following URL, please email me privately if you upload/ anything. ftp://unixarc:guest@ftp.paravolve.net/Ultrix/source/ Let me know if you have any issues /w access. - -jwb - -- ## James W. Brinkerhoff ## ## GPG Key Sig: EBF1 6C24 0814 A3E9 6E93 649C 1F25 D807 E484 C9B9 iD8DBQE+QB/hHyXYB+SEybkRAk4WAJ9mildbkKhDIvAMUUcIgnl/+ep50QCcC+S4 d5KsFI8eITKvvMG9x6VcsqE= =phOc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 4 14:23:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, John Lawson wrote: > Yes, please... *every* other maillist I subscribe to has [mailistname] > prepended to the "Subject" field...except for Classiccmp, which generates > three times the message traffic the others do combined... > > Having the [maillistname] at the *end* of the 'Subject:' text makes no > sense whatsoever, begging the Right Honorable Sellam's pardon on the > matter. Here's what I see when I get an index of the my mailbox: N 553 Feb 4 John Lawson (2,902) Re: Selectric Typewriter conversio N 554 Feb 4 Jay West (3,184) Re: OT/Admin: tags N 555 Feb 4 Fred Cisin (XenoSo (2,890) Re: Selectric Typewriter conversio N 556 Feb 4 chu@verizon.net (2,986) Request for help with a PDP 11/73 N 557 Feb 4 Roger Merchberger (5,819) Re: OT/Admin: tags N 558 Feb 4 Kevin Handy (3,294) Re: Request for help with a PDP 11 N 559 Feb 4 Eric Smith (3,458) Re: OT/Admin: tags N 560 Feb 4 Ethan Dicks (2,501) Is there such a thing as a ZIF soc N 561 Feb 4 William Donzelli (2,796) Sun tapes N 562 Feb 4 William Donzelli (2,965) Re: Is there such a thing as a ZIF + N 563 Feb 4 Murray McCullough (972) Book Here's what it would look like with a pre-pended tag: N 553 Feb 4 John Lawson (2,902) [CLASSICCMP] Re: Selectric Typewri N 554 Feb 4 Jay West (3,184) [CLASSICCMP] Re: OT/Admin: tags N 555 Feb 4 Fred Cisin (XenoSo (2,890) [CLASSICCMP] Re: Selectric Typewri N 556 Feb 4 chu@verizon.net (2,986) [CLASSICCMP] Request for help with N 557 Feb 4 Roger Merchberger (5,819) [CLASSICCMP] Re: OT/Admin: tags N 558 Feb 4 Kevin Handy (3,294) [CLASSICCMP] Re: Request for help N 559 Feb 4 Eric Smith (3,458) [CLASSICCMP] Re: OT/Admin: tags N 560 Feb 4 Ethan Dicks (2,501) [CLASSICCMP] Is there such a thing N 561 Feb 4 William Donzelli (2,796) [CLASSICCMP] Sun tapes N 562 Feb 4 William Donzelli (2,965) [CLASSICCMP] Re: Is there such a t + N 563 Feb 4 Murray McCullough (972) [CLASSICCMP] Book 3/5 of the message topic lines are now gone, making them practically useless for getting a quick scan of the message subjects. Admittedly this is a red herring argument. I don't use the index to read messages. I just read and delete through as I go through my inbox. But, what I'm saying is, we did already go over this in the Great Divergence. MUST we REPEAT this STUPID ARGUING over HOW the LIST is PRESENTED TIME and TIME and F0!KING TIME aGAIN? I mean SHIT! I have never met a more whiny-assed group of nerds in my life! If the whining on this list over all the stupid little shit that gets whined about could be converted into energy, we'd be able to power Asia. Just accept it already and SHUT UP! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dan at ekoan.com Tue Feb 4 14:23:16 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? In-Reply-To: <20030204194901.78823.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030204151442.056cd560@enigma> At 11:49 AM 2/4/03 -0800, you wrote: >I am needing to burn PLCC-packaged chips in my DIP programmer. I >expect I need to locate a PLCC<->DIP adapter of the right size >(for 29C010 and 28F101 Flash chips, at the moment). Thinking about it >made me wonder if any of the sockets were ZIF or LIF. > >Any ideas? Any recommendation on a source for adapters? First, they're not going to be cheap. I used an adapter purchased from http://www.emulation.com/ on a project about six years ago. It worked fine but was expensive. My current bench programmer, an Advin MVP, uses an add-on PLCC adapter that plugs into a header built into the programmer base. It is zero insertion force -- drop the chip in and close the lid. What programmer are you using? Cheers, Dan From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Feb 4 14:23:31 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? In-Reply-To: <20030204194901.78823.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204151236.0298dfd8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Ethan Dicks may have mentioned these words: >I am needing to burn PLCC-packaged chips in my DIP programmer. I >expect I need to locate a PLCC<->DIP adapter of the right size >(for 29C010 and 28F101 Flash chips, at the moment). Thinking about it >made me wonder if any of the sockets were ZIF or LIF. They're out there... >Any ideas? Any recommendation on a source for adapters? Some of the least expensive adapters I've found (including the least expensive programmers & SMD rework stations I've found) but still by no means "cheap" would be Xeltek -- www.xeltek.com. Had decent luck with my refurbed programmer that was <$200 and will do up to 4Mbit [Flash|EP]ROM devices, as well as PAL/GAL/PEEL/ATMEL etc... Their PLCC sockets range from $130 -> $185 (I'd seen 'em as high as $325, so that's a *bargain*... ;-) ) HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 4 14:47:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, ...) In-Reply-To: <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <001f01c2cb3e$51b43290$6401a8c0@benchbox> <00a601c2cb11$df564250$434a1942@starfury> <001f01c2cb3e$51b43290$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030204155035.0f2fa154@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:15 PM 2/3/03 -0500, R. D. Davis wrote: > >Like many others on this list, I had to sign up for Uncle Sam >Screwge's draft at the local post office, but at least now I'm too old >to have to go. Sorry that he and 'W'easelboy's daddy snagged you into >the gulf-war as one of their experimental guinnea pigs. Hopefully you >won't get called back into part II of the Bush/Hussein family feud. I'm sure that some of you will consider this off topic but I couldn't let this pass unchallanged. Unlike some of the people on this list, I didn't wait to be forced into the military service. I volunteered five days after I graduated from high school. I also volunteered for service in VietNam. In 1991 I was working for Martin Marietta on the AH-64 Apache helicopter program (TADS/PNVS) and I volunteered for the Gulf War as a civilian contractor supporting the US Army in it's forward bases. I'm sorry if you had to be forced to sign up for "Uncle Screwge's draft" and feel that you were "experimental guinnea pigs" but I saw what was happening in the middle east and I felt that I and the rest of this country had to stand up and fight injustice and terrorism and I dammed sure don't feel like a dummy for doing it! Joe Rigdon Ovideo, Florida From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 4 14:52:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? In-Reply-To: <20030204194901.78823.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030204155314.51c78f64@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:49 AM 2/4/03 -0800, you wrote: >I am needing to burn PLCC-packaged chips in my DIP programmer. I >expect I need to locate a PLCC<->DIP adapter of the right size >(for 29C010 and 28F101 Flash chips, at the moment). Thinking about it >made me wonder if any of the sockets were ZIF or LIF. Sure there are. Take a look at the RH adapter at . I run across stuff like this frequently. It won't be hard to take a socket made for something like an EPROM programmer and just wire it into your project. Joe > >Any ideas? Any recommendation on a source for adapters? > >Thanks, > >-ethan From ssj152 at charter.net Tue Feb 4 14:56:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: PeeCee obtained 5000AT - help on the way! References: <019d01c2cc69$bd2a65e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <00e901c2cc8f$5f1163c0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:23 AM Subject: PeeCee obtained 5000AT > Recently obtained a *BLUSH* old PC. Normally wouldn't post about it here > but... someone may be interested in a copy of the software on it. > > This thing is kind of a slimline desktop case, has a 3.5 floppy and 5.25 > floppy. It's a leading edge model 5000AT. I think it is a 286. But what > might be interesting to some is, it comes with something called "windos" I > believe, and is a leading edge specific "make the computer simple" GUI sort > of. Basically just lets you point and click to call 123, easywriter, etc. I > thought someone might be interested in the software & gui files. > > God I feel dirty now *G* > Jay - don't fret - you can be purified! To accomplish this, before midnight of the next full moon, set up the following items: 1) industrial or shop vac, with accessories, 2) old printer with the "snuff box" or "ribbon stacker" type of ribbon (ribbon MUST be present) Printronix 150 or equiv., and 3) an extension cord, plugged into power suitable for the vacuum. Be ready to perform the ceremony at exactly midnight. If you want confirmation that your transgression (trying - "Windos", ugh) are forgiven, have the rite videotaped and I will follow up with delivery instructions. Since your contamination is from "Windos", I will not charge you for this purification, a $99.95 value, as seen on the "Nerd Needs Network" "www.needsnerds.com". The Ritual: Shortly before the second hand reaches the "12" mark (looks like you will need a watch too), walk to the printer and: Yes, Mr. Senior Engineer, I will clean the printer INSIDES NOW Yes, Mr. Senior Engineer, I will clean the printer INSIDES NOW Yes, Mr. Senior Engineer, I will clean the printer INSIDES NOW Yes, Mr. Senior Engineer, I will clean the printer INSIDES NOW approach the printer, from over the top. Lift the top of the printer with one hand, use the other to begin cleaning the printed circuit board - and STAY AWAY from the printer cartridge Yes, Mr. Senior Engineer, I have cleaned the printer INSIDES NOW Yes, Mr. Senior Engineer, I have cleaned the printer INSIDES NOW Yes, Mr. Senior Engineer, I have cleaned the printer INSIDES NOW Yes, Mr. Senior Engineer, I have cleaned the printer INSIDES NOW Yes, Mr. Senior Engineer, I have removed the printer ribbon NOW Yes, Mr. Senior Engineer, I have removed the printer ribbon NOW Yes, Mr. Senior Engineer, I have removed the printer ribbon NOW Yes, Mr. Senior Engineer, I have removed the printer ribbon NOW -- you want it changed now? PS. Please note that these rites can only be performed with equipment more than 20 years old. Props, such as the vacuum, and extension card can be new. --- Stuart Johnson From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Feb 4 15:02:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: [cc] RE: OT/Admin: tags Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA03@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Sellam raged: > Here's what I see when I get an index of the my mailbox: [ pine display removed] > Here's what it would look like with a pre-pended tag: [ more pine removed] > 3/5 of the message topic lines are now gone, making them practically > useless for getting a quick scan of the message subjects. Oh. You mean, your stupid mail client cant even widen its display? Get a real mail client then, dude. See how fucked-up that comment is? Right. Same goes for another comment stating that "every decent mail client can do processing". It's simply not true. Like my statement above. People use all sorts of clients, and they all have different capabilities. > I just read and delete through as I go through my inbox. Try that on my mailbox. > But, what I'm saying is, we did already go over this in the Great > Divergence. MUST we REPEAT this STUPID ARGUING over HOW the LIST is > PRESENTED TIME and TIME and F0!KING TIME aGAIN? Settle down, dude. > I mean SHIT! I have never met a more whiny-assed group of nerds in my > life! If the whining on this list over all the stupid little shit that > gets whined about could be converted into energy, we'd be able to power > Asia. I don't feel like powering Asia. Just my own home would be nice, given the VAXen here. I still vote for a small [cc] tag. In front of the subject. > Just accept it already and SHUT UP! No. --fred From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 4 15:05:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags References: Message-ID: <00d801c2cc90$c40f7720$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Sellam wrote... > My vote is to end all this discussion now and forever and ban it from the > list in perpetuity and ban anyone from the list who brings it up ever > again and make everyone who joins the list to read the FAQ and to send in > something valuable (like their wallet) to swear by that they read the FAQ > and they don't get it back until they either get kicked off or they leave. Sellam, you're my he-ro! ROTF From primate at mindspring.com Tue Feb 4 15:08:01 2003 From: primate at mindspring.com (Neil Carpenter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags References: Message-ID: <0f5a01c2cc91$38656ad0$0100a8c0@primate> > But, what I'm saying is, we did already go over this in the Great > Divergence. MUST we REPEAT this STUPID ARGUING over HOW the LIST is > PRESENTED TIME and TIME and F0!KING TIME aGAIN? > > I mean SHIT! I have never met a more whiny-assed group of nerds in my > life! If the whining on this list over all the stupid little shit that > gets whined about could be converted into energy, we'd be able to power > Asia. > > Just accept it already and SHUT UP! > Hmmmm...I hear that, if you don't like it, you can subscribe to CCTECH. From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Feb 4 15:12:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: [cc] Re: [cc] RE: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA03@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Feb 4, 03 09:59:54 pm Message-ID: <200302042105.QAA10982@wordstock.com> And thusly Fred N. van Kempen spake: > > Oh. You mean, your stupid mail client cant even widen its display? Get > a real mail client then, dude. elm isn't a real mail client? But another problem with prepending something to the subject line could be the recursing going on... Notice subject line... Cheers, Bryan From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 4 15:22:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Feb 03, 2003 10:07:10 PM Message-ID: <200302042119.h14LJQj02645@shell1.aracnet.com> > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Now, are those of us in the US to be considered > > criminals because we collect, build and hack all sorts of computer and > > electronics equipment as a harmless hobby (or is the knowledge and > > ability to do this now considered dangerous by our elected idiots, > > since they obviously lack the ability to think intelligently about > > anything?)? > > Well, given that the DCMA is a standing U.S. federal law, you can > probably answer that question yourself. But basically, the Sears > repairman was right; didn't you know that it's a federal crime to > try to understand those systems you're collecting? What I've been wondering about is, how long before we start setting off alarms in some Government agency due to our abnormally high use of electricity? Or due to the abnormally high level of heat in area's of our home? Zane From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Feb 4 15:24:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: [cc] Re: [cc] RE: OT/Admin: tags Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > elm isn't a real mail client? It is. > But another problem with prepending something to the subject > line could be the recursing going on... Most mailing list software knows how to do that. --f From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 4 15:27:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: from "Eric Smith" at Feb 04, 2003 11:41:41 AM Message-ID: <200302042124.h14LOXt02931@shell1.aracnet.com> > John wrote" > > Yes, please... *every* other maillist I subscribe to has [mailistname] > > prepended to the "Subject" field...except for Classiccmp, which > > generates three times the message traffic the others do combined... > > Please DON'T do this. Only about 5% of the mailing lists I subscribe > to have this, and it annoys the heck out of me because it just keeps > me from seeing that many characters of the subject line in the summary > view. I'd like to agree with Eric, and also to remind people that this has been tried on the CLASSICCMP mailing lists, and it annoyed the H*** out of so many of us that it was stopped. One major problem I have with it is that it prevents the email software I use from being able todproperly sort the messages! Zane From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Feb 4 15:29:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, In-Reply-To: <200302042119.h14LJQj02645@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 4, 03 01:19:25 pm Message-ID: <200302042121.QAA01516@wordstock.com> And thusly Zane H. Healy spake: > > What I've been wondering about is, how long before we start setting off > alarms in some Government agency due to our abnormally high use of > electricity? Or due to the abnormally high level of heat in area's of our > home? hmmm... Lots of electricity + lots of heat... add in lots of light and you have something else for them to look for... Cheers, Bryan From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 4 15:29:20 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Request for Armed Guard highway escort (HP2100) Message-ID: <00e501c2cc94$0ba9d1e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Please god take me now I am a happy camper :) I'm posting this only because a few of the highly sought-after (by me) HP2100 systems have become available. Geoff has posted that he has one, and there is the nice one on ebay. I want to let folks know that I have made a deal to get the 2100 cpu I have been looking for along with some choice peripherals from Bill McDermith, so count me out of the running for Geoff's system and the one on ebay (and thanks for that sentiment Sellam!). My undying thanks to Bill! With what he is bringing, I would expect to finally have HP2000/Access TSB up and running again in fairly short order! So, since Bill will be bringing the system from his place, I would like to solicit volunteers from the list to ride motorcycles alongside his vehicle and carry a weapon, something of at least 7.62x54 caliber. Your job will be to shoot on sight anyone who approaches the vehicle with that crazed "I like old HP hardware" look in their eyes. When volunteering for escort duty, you must state the caliber of weapon you will be carrying, the range of states you're willing to escort through, and sign an affidavit that you have no interest in old HP hardware. I will personally escort him the last 100 miles, mosin-nagant in hand *GRIN*. On a more serious note - I personally think the system on Ebay would be a perfect catch for any HP enthusiasts. With the right mux card, it would be a great setup to run HP2000/E, nothing else required. Next to 2000/Access which requires the most elaborate hardware, 2000E is the best of the TSB systems I believe, and only requires one CPU, no IOP firmware, and no 1/2 tape drive. Of course, I think he's asking way too much for it, unless it can be verified to be in perfect working order - then, maybe $600 isn't SO bad. Just keep in mind that the drive on it is a 7900A, which has no automatic head locking mechanism. The heads extend quite easily, so just a few bumps and you'll be looking for new heads and a new fixed lower platter. More if it was actually powered up in that condition. Think I'm going to go tip a brew in honor of Bill McDermith! Thanks all! Jay West From cb at mythtech.net Tue Feb 4 15:30:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: [cc] Re: [cc] RE: OT/Admin: tags Message-ID: >But another problem with prepending something to the subject line could be >the recursing going on... > >Notice subject line... That's why I vote for no prepending. I am on some lists that do this, and long discussions (like this list is notorious for) end up quickly becoming nothing more than a subject line of "Re: [cc]" repeated over and over. And no, a smart list server that can handle tags (and thus not insert them on messages that already have them, or insert them after the Re:) doesn't always help. Some mail clients/services munge them. And all it takes is one person in the discussion with an effected client, and the whole thing gets thrown out of whack. -chris From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Feb 4 15:31:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: [cc] Re: [cc] Re: [cc] RE: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <200302042105.QAA10982@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Fred N. van Kempen spake: > > Oh. You mean, your stupid mail client cant even widen its display? > > Get a real mail client then, dude. > > elm isn't a real mail client? Actually, I'm sure elm can adapt its size to the full width of the display. This is certainly the case with pine. Of course, there's that other problem of not being able to change the display dimensions of my VT series terminals. I'd be a bit surprised if anyone here wants to tell me to trade in my classic VAX and VT terminal for a "real computer". > But another problem with prepending something to the subject line > could be the recursing going on... > > Notice subject line... Yes, lovely isn't it? Anyone who's running on a Unix based system should get procmail and learn to use it. I'm not sure what is available for other systems, but I'd be really surprised if any mainstream mail client can only filter based on the mail subject. -brian. From arlen at acm.org Tue Feb 4 15:33:01 2003 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <15654.207.55.102.77.1044347798.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: on 4/2/03 3:36 AM, Eric Smith at eric@brouhaha.com wrote: > IBM made "I/O Selectrics," which had heavy-duty mechanisms intended > for continuous output. Model numbers that come to mind are the > 1052 and 753, though my memory regarding these seems more than a > little fuzzy. For what it's worth, my memory (no less fuzzy than Eric's) remembers that as a model 735. But even with the more robust "I/O Selectrics" there was a hidden gotcha: when you sent data to the mechanism you had to time it right. The Selectric needed varying amounts of time to tilt and swivel the type element, depending on the letter chosen. To cope with that, lots of the early computer interface projects just stuck a software delay loop in the driver code to wait plenty of time for each letter to finish printing before it sent the next character code to the Selectric. This apparently caused a lot of mechanical wear-and-tear as the clutch relentlessly cycled in and out, and even the heavy duty "I/O" mechanism would eventually crap out from all the lurching. The right way to do it was to make sure your driver polled the state of some microswitches that IBM had thoughtfully buried in the clockwork to provide feedback on the progress of the print cycle. That way you could start sending a new character at a magic moment just _before_ the previous print cycle fully finished, which provided the fastest possible printing and extended the life of the clutch. Like John said, VooDoo. Regards, Arlen Michaels From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Feb 4 15:35:01 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? Message-ID: Something like a prebuilt 32-pin DIP -> 32-pin PLCC adapter wired 1:1 at http://www.emulation.com lists for $110. P/N AS-32-32-01P-3YAM-LN on their webstie. You can get PLCC ZIF sockets from http://www.arieselec.com One of their products is a universal 20-pin to 84-pin PLCC ZIF socket, P/N 84-537-21, which goes for $150 at http://www.mouser.com (plus $12 each for the various sized inserts). >From: Ethan Dicks >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? >Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:49:01 -0800 (PST) > >I am needing to burn PLCC-packaged chips in my DIP programmer. I >expect I need to locate a PLCC<->DIP adapter of the right size >(for 29C010 and 28F101 Flash chips, at the moment). Thinking about it >made me wonder if any of the sockets were ZIF or LIF. > >Any ideas? Any recommendation on a source for adapters? > >Thanks, > >-ethan From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 4 15:43:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: HP 2000 system requirements (was Re: Request for Armed Guard highway escort (HP2100)) In-Reply-To: <00e501c2cc94$0ba9d1e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00e501c2cc94$0ba9d1e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4126.4.20.168.144.1044394837.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Next to > 2000/Access which requires the most elaborate hardware, 2000E is the > best of the TSB systems I believe, I strongly disagree. 2000C, 2000C', and 2000F are *much* better than 2000E. > and only requires one CPU, True. IIRC, one of the earlier systems, 2000A or 2000B, also only required one CPU, but there's probably no reason to prefer that over 2000E. > no IOP firmware, 2000C/C'/F don't require special IOP firmware either. Only 2000 Access needs that. > and no 1/2 tape drive. 2000C/C'/F don't require a tape drive, though they can support it as an option. Of course, if you want to SLEEP or HIBERNATE the system for backup, you'd better have one. If you don't have a magtape, you have to install the system from paper tape. For 2000C/C'/F, I think this requires a high-speed reader, as I don't remember the TSB loader supporting install from the console teletype's reader. If memory serves, the console teletype was usually an HP 2754 or some such, which was a KSR35. From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Feb 4 15:51:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <3E3F2B5C.1AF7998A@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E3FDF57.6193.DCF0BBE@localhost> Don Lancaster's "TV Typewriter Cookbook" had all the details. I sold my copy last September unfortunately. Lawrence On 3 Feb 2003, , Marvin Johnston wrote: > Does anyone remember what was required to convert an IBM > Selectric Typewriter to a computer printer? I seem to recall > a kit of some sort was available, but my memory is *really* > hazy about that. lgwalker@ mts.net From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Tue Feb 4 15:58:01 2003 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <1fpuzwv.vyr5cg1xix98gM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> > insert a tag [cctalk] in the Subject: line of the postings I vote no. -- The ears are too length. -------------------------------------------------------- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 4 16:03:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: HP 2000 system requirements (was Re: Request for Armed Guard highway escort (HP2100)) References: <00e501c2cc94$0ba9d1e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4126.4.20.168.144.1044394837.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <012501c2cc98$bd04d120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Eric wrote... > I strongly disagree. 2000C, 2000C', and 2000F are *much* better than > 2000E. I did say "I believe", ie subjective opinion. I'm familiar with C, E, and Access from personal experience using them in high school. In my own experience, C was "twitchy". E was rock solid. E gives up features like "Print Using" and "execute" I seem to recall, and E didn't support group libraries and such... but E was perfectly usable and stable as heck. Of course, YMMV > > and only requires one CPU, > > True. IIRC, one of the earlier systems, 2000A or 2000B, also only > required one CPU, but there's probably no reason to prefer that over > 2000E. Well, it is fairly plausible that a hobbyist can get 2000E running on "modern" stuff like a 21MX/E or F. You aren't going to get A or B running easily, unless someone knows where a working HP drum memory device and working fixed head disc are. I can't imagine there's any of those around, and A/B required them, so , not very likely. Matter of fact, didn't C or F require a fixed head drive? I think one of them did anyways, and there are likely none of those devices to be found. In addition, the A and B versions are cute, but lack some of the basic features one would want that are in the E version. E was a modern implementation of BASIC, unlike the A/B, and wasn't all that different from the Access systems except for a few statements that many people like. > 2000C/C'/F don't require special IOP firmware either. Only 2000 Access > needs that. > > 2000C/C'/F don't require a tape drive, though they can support it as > an option.' That is also true of 2000E > Of course, if you want to SLEEP or HIBERNATE the system > for backup, you'd better have one. One backed up 2000E quite handily using disc-up and copy loader commands. That I know for sure, and I THINK you could do a sleep/hib to disk? But, more to the point, all I was saying is, C/C'/F require two cpu's. For many hobbists, finding one cpu is hard enough, let alone two, and the interconnect kit, etc. etc. I was just saying that the E version is perfectly usable, and doesn't require gobs of hardware like the C/C'/F, and Access versions do. Jay West From gil at vauxelectronics.com Tue Feb 4 16:26:01 2003 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT: Compact Flash (CF) cards Message-ID: <3.0.32.20030204152737.00a547d0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi folks: This is off-topic, (and if you are in the sbc6120 group you have already seen it): I got a couple of Compact Flash (CF) cards to play with, and I also got a CF-PCMCIA adapter to try the cards in my laptop. Unfortunately, I cannot get Win-frickin-98 to see the card. I have a similar Smartmedia-PCMCIA adapter for camera cards, and it seems to work fine in the same machine (ibm thinkpad 600e). In both cases, I inserted the card/adapter, WinBlows sees it and starts the device wizard to install a "Standard IDE/ESDI Hard Disk Controller." For the Smartmedia card/adapter, the card automatically appears as a drive in Explorer, and all is well. For the CF card/adapter, it asked me to reboot, and even then does not see the card. The Device Manager Status for the controller says "device not present, not working properly, or does not have all drivers installed (code 10)." There are no resource conflicts to correct. However, the controller driver is seen by the PCMCIA utility that allows me to stop the card for removal. I've searched at ibm and microsoft, and various google finds, but cannot make sense of this, and have already spent way too much time on it. Has anyone had problems or success reading CF cards in Win98 with a PCMCIA adapter? Is a usb adapter a better choice? Upgrading the o/s is not an option, since I never intend to give microsoft another penny. thanks in advance, gil ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Feb 4 16:29:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: [cc] RE: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen"'s message of "Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:59:54 +0100" References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA03@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <200302042216.h14MGF6N012134@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > See how fucked-up that comment is? Right. Same goes for another comment > stating that "every decent mail client can do processing". It's simply > not true. Like my statement above. People use all sorts of clients, and > they all have different capabilities. If your mail software doesn't do what you need it to do, maybe you need to complain to whoever sells and supports it, or find other mail software that does do what you need done. Asking the rest of the net to change so that you can keep using losing software is not nice. > I still vote for a small [cc] tag. In front of the subject. Here's how that works out here: I set up my mail software to strip the tag so I don't have to see it. (Clearly, my mail software wins: it doesn't just do what I need, but also what I want.) Then, when I reply to the list, my reply's subject does not have the tag. So messages in the thread can have at least three different subjects: [cc] foo Re: [cc] foo [cc] Re: foo I'd bet that there's a fourth possibility based on phase of the moon: [cc] Re: [cc] foo Do you begin to understand why I think subject tags are not a good idea? > > Just accept it already and SHUT UP! > No. Yep, that's the problem. The way your message came across out here in Sillycon Valley was: "I know we've been over this before, so there's no need to discuss it, just vote to do this and then us folks who cling to our losing software will stop bringing it up." This is not the way to win friends and influence people, not that there's much hope of influencing me on this point. -Frank McConnell, filtering his incoming e-mail since 1994 From dtwright at uiuc.edu Tue Feb 4 16:37:00 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <005301c2cc7e$32386ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <014b01c2cc7b$c102b8e0$0100a8c0@primate> <005301c2cc7e$32386ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030204223458.GG172184@uiuc.edu> Personally, I find the [list name] tag to be annoying and redundant... I can see what list the message is from based on the To: header easily enough, thank you :-) Jay West said: > People wrote... > > Yes, please... *every* other maillist I subscribe to has [mailistname] > > prepended to the "Subject" field...except for Classiccmp, which generates > > three times the message traffic the others do combined... > > I personally prefer to have the listname in the subject field [cctech] for > example. I really can't say way, I just like it that way. Maybe it's because > every list I have ever been on has it that way, and we all know how prone > people are to think the first way is the "best way" *GRIN*. > > That being said - this has come up for discussion several times in the past, > and pretty much the majority of people said don't put it in so I left it > out. However, if the majority opinion has changed, I'd be happy to add it > back. Tis up to you folks! :) > > Jay West - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) (UNIX Systems Administrator, School of Chemical Sciences) (333-1728) From acme at ao.net Tue Feb 4 16:40:01 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags Message-ID: <200302042237.RAA03237@eola.ao.net> From: Fred N. van Kempen To: Glen Goodwin Subject: OT/Admin: tags Date: 02/04/2003 12:10 AM > Given the volume of the list, and the many off-topic (lets not discuss > what is and is not on-topic here) talk, I would like to propose [again] > that we do like other lists do: insert a tag [cctalk] in the Subject: > line of the postings, so it's easy to distinguis the postings from > other, perhaps more pressing e-mail. [snip] > I don't want to start Yet Another Discussion, a mere vote would do, as > we're all techies who know what this is about. My vote, FWIW: the list works fine the way it is. Later -- Glen 0/0 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 4 16:44:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:31 2005 Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030204224116.58519.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Glen S wrote: > Something like a prebuilt 32-pin DIP -> 32-pin PLCC adapter wired 1:1 at > http://www.emulation.com lists for $110. P/N AS-32-32-01P-3YAM-LN on > their webstie. Hmm... kinda expensive... I'm not even sure (without checking) if my burner knows about Flash EEPROM anyway. It's that B&C Micro UP600A from long, long ago. I may have to break down and get myself a newer programmer. Thanks, -ethan From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Feb 4 16:45:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags [CLOSED] Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA08@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Case dismissed, I'll drop the subject (without tags, even) now that I am getting personal attacks about it. I'll just unsubscribe, that will get rid of the OT banter as well. --fred From allain at panix.com Tue Feb 4 16:54:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Compact Flash (CF) cards References: <3.0.32.20030204152737.00a547d0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <004c01c2cc9f$ea0bbf60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Is a usb adapter a better choice? I have a dazzle-USB reader here for Both types, plus SD/MMC, all for a good price, $30 IIRC, and no (major) problems. I use this on 98. > Upgrading the o/s is not an option, since I never > intend to give microsoft another penny. Linux, Man! > Unfortunately, I cannot get Win-frickin-98.. Right. John A. From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Feb 4 17:54:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: [OT] Anyone experienced with white LEDs? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204174143.00ae66d0@mail.30below.com> I'm looking at building a personal lighting project possibly using white LEDs instead of regular miniature bulbs, and as I browsed the Mouser catalog, I got a whole lot more confused than less... I'm trying to get the maximum amount of light for current expended, and the numbers seem to be nonstandard, or at least not enough info is provided... :-/ Example: P. 217, "Super Flux LED Lamps" The white one shows at 20mA it will put out 400-600 "Iv (mcd)" P. 216, "Blue & White LED Lamps" The brightest white they have is listed as: "2200->3200 "Luminous Intensity" but with no mention of current or value (mcd? ucd? ) P. 199, "Thru-Hole White LED Lamps" "Luminous Intensity" ? current would output 1.7->2.3->2.6 (min/typical/max) mcd... and on P. 206, there's a few colored LEDs output listed as "Foot Lamberts"... And Digi-Key has these Surface Mount Incandescent Lamps... :-O The look cool, but how hot do they get? (It's a very small installation area... It's still an idea I'm forming, but if it works out, it's a *kewl* idea...) Any good websites w/info on how to figure out how many LEDs I'd need to make about a 40W (or more) lightbulb worth of light? -- Also, my college electronics braincells are rather weak, as I can't remember if the wattage rating means "total dissapated wattage" or "total wattage of the circuit branch it's in"... [1] ... I'm getting too old for this ... Any help/pointers would be *massively cool*... Thanks! "Merch" [1] - I want to use SMT current limiting resistors [2] (fewer holes to drill...) and the highest wattage ratings I can find is 1/8W... in a 6V 20mA circuit it's running real close... (I could run ~17mA to get a margin of error... but I want the max light I can get...) RatShaq has 1.2A 6V wall-warts for a reasonable $, and I wanna build a "different" light fixture. Of course, I want a *usable* light fixture... ;-) [2] - I wish I could find SMT white LEDs... :-/ -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From jim at jkearney.com Tue Feb 4 18:01:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? References: <20030204194901.78823.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <028501c2cca9$5ed96500$0f01090a@xpace.net> I've got a couple that came with an old Data I/O programmer I bought. They're undocumented as to the pin mapping, but they definitely work with a PLCC 27C010 that I popped in. The programmer type setting is different than for the DIP version, so the mapping might not be 1:1. I will check with a Ohmmeter and find out. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:49 PM Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? > I am needing to burn PLCC-packaged chips in my DIP programmer. I > expect I need to locate a PLCC<->DIP adapter of the right size > (for 29C010 and 28F101 Flash chips, at the moment). Thinking about it > made me wonder if any of the sockets were ZIF or LIF. > > Any ideas? Any recommendation on a source for adapters? > > Thanks, > > -ethan From acme at ao.net Tue Feb 4 18:10:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 Message-ID: <200302050007.TAA04550@eola.ao.net> > I just bought a PDP 11/73, but > unfortunately UPS dropped it > on the way. So I am trying to > what ever documentation and > diagnostics that I can locate > to figure out how badly it was > damaged. > The mounts for the tape drive and > disk drive were broken as well as > all of the external plastic. Jeez, man, that REALLY sucks. My sympathies, and I hope that some of the DECsters here on the list can help you revive the beast. Please keep us posted. Glen 0/0 From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 4 18:23:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: HP 2000 system requirements (was Re: Request for Armed Guard highway escort (HP2100)) In-Reply-To: <012501c2cc98$bd04d120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00e501c2cc94$0ba9d1e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4126.4.20.168.144.1044394837.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <012501c2cc98$bd04d120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4506.4.20.168.139.1044404452.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: >> I strongly disagree. 2000C, 2000C', and 2000F are *much* better than >> 2000E. Jay wrote: > I did say "I believe", ie subjective opinion. I'm familiar with C, E, > and Access from personal experience using them in high school. In my own > experience, C was "twitchy". E was rock solid. E gives up features like > "Print Using" and "execute" I seem to recall, and E didn't support group > libraries and such... but E was perfectly usable and stable as heck. Of > course, YMMV Never used E. The workspace on E was too small for many of my programs, and I depended on PRINT USING quite a lot. But I used C' for about two years, and it seemed extremely robust to me. The only problem we had was when the fixed-head disk eventually died, and even though the system was under an HP maintenance contract, they couldn't repair it. So they upgraded the C' to F, and gave us more moving-head disk drives. I used F for about a year, and it seemed really solid as well. Not surprising, since F is basically C' modified to use the HP-2100/21MX optional microcoded floating point instruction, and to not require fixed-head media. > One backed up 2000E quite handily using disc-up and copy loader commands. > That I know for sure, and I THINK you could do a sleep/hib to disk? No, sleep/hib only works to tape. Same with selective dump/restore. You can copy files (including programs) disk-to-disk, but it's not very convenient, and it doesn't preserve the user ID table. If you take down the system, you can back up an entire disk onto another of the same geometry, but you can't do that during timesharing. > I was just saying that the E version is perfectly usable, I suppose, as long as your expectations are sufficiently low. Even most of the games wouldn't fit on E. That's why I've had very little interest in it, and mostly have wanted to run C', F, or Access. And it would be fun to set up Access for RJE to an IBM operating system running on Hercules. :-) Eric From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Feb 4 18:26:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: [OT] Anyone experienced with white LEDs? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204174143.00ae66d0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3E4058F0.3040106@jetnet.ab.ca> Roger Merchberger wrote: > I'm looking at building a personal lighting project possibly using white > LEDs instead of regular miniature bulbs, and as I browsed the Mouser > catalog, I got a whole lot more confused than less... > > I'm trying to get the maximum amount of light for current expended, and > the numbers seem to be nonstandard, or at least not enough info is > provided... :-/ > > Example: > > P. 217, "Super Flux LED Lamps" > The white one shows at 20mA it will put out 400-600 "Iv (mcd)" > P. 216, "Blue & White LED Lamps" > The brightest white they have is listed as: "2200->3200 > "Luminous Intensity" but with no mention of current or value > (mcd? ucd? ) > P. 199, "Thru-Hole White LED Lamps" > "Luminous Intensity" ? current would output 1.7->2.3->2.6 > (min/typical/max) mcd... > > > and on P. 206, there's a few colored LEDs output listed as "Foot > Lamberts"... > > And Digi-Key has these Surface Mount Incandescent Lamps... :-O The look > cool, but how hot do they get? (It's a very small installation area... > It's still an idea I'm forming, but if it works out, it's a *kewl* idea...) > > Any good websites w/info on how to figure out how many LEDs I'd need to > make about a 40W (or more) lightbulb worth of light? http://www.bgmicro.com/ Check out BGmicro for big leds. Also I think the blue and white leds are sensitive to the current and voltage used. Ben. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Feb 4 18:31:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: "Jay West" "Re: OT/Admin: tags" (Feb 4, 12:49) References: <014b01c2cc7b$c102b8e0$0100a8c0@primate> <005301c2cc7e$32386ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <10302050027.ZM14122@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 4, 12:49, Jay West wrote: > That being said - this has come up for discussion several times in the past, > and pretty much the majority of people said don't put it in so I left it > out. However, if the majority opinion has changed, I'd be happy to add it > back. Tis up to you folks! :) My vote is to leave it as it is, ie no tag, please. I dislike the wasted space in the subject line (and yes I can make it wider but I choose not to do so because it suits everything else the way it is, thanks), and there are plenty of other things in the headers I can filter on. Besides, once a thread has started I can recognise the subject lines; I don't need tags. FWIW, I'm on several other lists, either at home or at work, only a few of which use tags -- and all of those have at some time exhibited the recursion problem, apparently because some MUAs munge the subject lines when replying. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Feb 4 18:36:01 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies Message-ID: Well, Intergraph still makes computers, they're just PCs.. But you guys missed Concurrent, the descendant of Interdata and Perkin-Elmer, who specializes in Video On Demand solutions.. they also bought Harris's computer division, for the nighthawk. I think MODCOMP is still around in some form also.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Feb 4 18:40:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: [OT] Anyone experienced with white LEDs? Message-ID: <200302050037.QAA05114@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Roger Merchberger" > >I'm looking at building a personal lighting project possibly using white >LEDs instead of regular miniature bulbs, and as I browsed the Mouser >catalog, I got a whole lot more confused than less... > >I'm trying to get the maximum amount of light for current expended, and the >numbers seem to be nonstandard, or at least not enough info is provided... :-/ > >Example: > >P. 217, "Super Flux LED Lamps" > The white one shows at 20mA it will put out 400-600 "Iv (mcd)" >P. 216, "Blue & White LED Lamps" > The brightest white they have is listed as: "2200->3200 > "Luminous Intensity" but with no mention of current or value > (mcd? ucd? ) Hi I'm not sure what "Luminous Intensity" means but mcd means milli-candles and ucd means micro-candles. >P. 199, "Thru-Hole White LED Lamps" > "Luminous Intensity" ? current would output 1.7->2.3->2.6 > (min/typical/max) mcd... > > >and on P. 206, there's a few colored LEDs output listed as "Foot Lamberts"... > >And Digi-Key has these Surface Mount Incandescent Lamps... :-O The look >cool, but how hot do they get? (It's a very small installation area... It's >still an idea I'm forming, but if it works out, it's a *kewl* idea...) > >Any good websites w/info on how to figure out how many LEDs I'd need to >make about a 40W (or more) lightbulb worth of light? This is not so easy to figure. You need to know how efficient the LED's are, relative to standard bulbs. It seems like I saw something that said that LEDs were not quite as efficient as fluorescent lamps but still better than incandescents. If we figured them at twice as efficient, you'd need 20W's of LEDs. Watts is just the current times the voltage. You figure this for each LED and add them all together. LEDs do require a circuit to limit the current. When you figure your total light output, you don't count the loss in the control circuit. Of course, for the final tally, you'll need to include this as well. When driving a number of LED's, it is better to drive a large number in series because you only need one current limiting circuit. The count of LED's would depend on the voltage source you have available. You'd have the total LED voltage plus the drop needed across your current limiting cicuit. Dwight > >-- Also, my college electronics braincells are rather weak, as I can't >remember if the wattage rating means "total dissapated wattage" or "total >wattage of the circuit branch it's in"... [1] > >... I'm getting too old for this ... > >Any help/pointers would be *massively cool*... > >Thanks! >"Merch" > >[1] - I want to use SMT current limiting resistors [2] (fewer holes to >drill...) and the highest wattage ratings I can find is 1/8W... in a 6V >20mA circuit it's running real close... (I could run ~17mA to get a margin >of error... but I want the max light I can get...) RatShaq has 1.2A 6V >wall-warts for a reasonable $, and I wanna build a "different" light >fixture. Of course, I want a *usable* light fixture... ;-) > >[2] - I wish I could find SMT white LEDs... :-/ > >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >zmerch@30below.com > >What do you do when Life gives you lemons, >and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From jim at jkearney.com Tue Feb 4 18:46:01 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? References: <20030204194901.78823.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <028501c2cca9$5ed96500$0f01090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <02bd01c2ccaf$8ce6bc30$0f01090a@xpace.net> > > Any ideas? Any recommendation on a source for adapters? > for the DIP version, so the mapping might not be 1:1. I will check with a > Ohmmeter and find out. Ethan, I checked my adapter and it is 1:1, so if you want to borrow it that would be no problem. A 28F010 is a 5V-program device, so actually you can program it in any system that takes a 512KB DIP RAM, with a little jumpering and appropriate software. I would offer to program them for you, but oddly enough the Data I/O programmer I have doesn't seem to have an Erase command on the menu. I guess it's intended as a "production programmer". Jim p.s. I found another LJ p+s adapter, too. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 4 18:51:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: [OT] Anyone experienced with white LEDs? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204174143.00ae66d0@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204174143.00ae66d0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <4585.4.20.168.139.1044406090.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Any good websites w/info on how to figure out how many LEDs I'd need to > make about a 40W (or more) lightbulb worth of light? If you're thinking about "traditional" LEDs, the answer is "one heck of a lot". Common 40W incandescent bulbs are reated from 445 to 490 Lumens A 1W Luxeon white (5500K) LED produces 18 lumens, so you would need 25 to 27 of them to produce the equivalent output. If you don't need the light to be white, the cyan 1W Luxeon produces about 30 lumens. Docs available at www.lumileds.com. Lumileds used to be (part of?) HP Optoelectronics. From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Feb 4 19:11:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, In-Reply-To: <200302042119.h14LJQj02645@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200302042119.h14LJQj02645@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20030205013518.GF11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Zane H. Healy, from writings of Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 01:19:25PM -0800: > What I've been wondering about is, how long before we start setting off > alarms in some Government agency due to our abnormally high use of > electricity? Or due to the abnormally high level of heat in area's of our > home? Hmmm... Just for fun, I suggest that we all buy lots of grow lamps as well, as I hear the spooks are suspicious of those too and do checks for them... place them near a frosted window and leave them lit all the time... grow some sort of house plants or herbs (they're not illegal yet), but keep lots of beakers, bunsen burners, contraptions that look like stills with valves connected to computers, etc. near the plants just for the heck of it... use 'em to prepare cups of herbal tea, herbal remedies, dinner, or whatever. If everyone did something "suspicious," yet harmless, like that, it sure would screw up Big Brother's spook system. :-) Oh, yeah, buy lots of "suspicious" books as well, as I hear they're trying to keep track of the books we read. Now then, where'd I put my copy of "Computer Controlled Potato Launchers and High Power Spark Gap, and Other, RFI Generators for Novice Jeffersonian Revolutionaries?" ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Feb 4 19:27:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags References: <014b01c2cc7b$c102b8e0$0100a8c0@primate> <005301c2cc7e$32386ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <10302050027.ZM14122@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <018a01c2ccb5$8e9ce8f0$7d00a8c0@george> Well, in the interest of decreasing the SN even furhter, why not entirely replace the subject with the tag? At least the content and subject would be in sync a little more often. ^_^ Bob From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 4 19:28:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <004201c2cc60$61691ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Feb 4, 3 10:16:23 am Message-ID: > Agree completely. I took one apart years ago and deep > inside were two compound lever assemblies, which could > sound complicated, but what they did was find a kind of > breathtaking simplicity. The lever mechanism worked exactly > like the way a Mobile hangs and balances several inputs to > one output. (picture below). > I'd like to congratulate the inventor of that one. I have a reprint of an old (1912-ish) book on Telegraphy, and it uses a similar linkage for a binart to 1-of-n decoder to position a typewheel for a printing telegraph machine. So the idea is pretty old. Mildly off-topic, but of course such a linkage works with analogue 'signals' as well. I have in front of me a camera which uses a similar linkage with the appropriate lengths to combine the settings of the shutter speed dial/film speed control, lens aperture ring, and maximum aperture control so as to correctly position the reference circle for the exposure meter. I said 'mildly off topic' because this is, IMHO, a very simple analogue computer and it's well over 10 years old. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 4 19:28:18 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030204092822.467794a6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Feb 4, 3 09:28:22 am Message-ID: > Speaking of interfacing Selectrics. I was talking to my father > about Teletypes the other day and he told me that he had thrown out an > old "word processor" (my term not his). He said that it was a desk sized > mechanical unit that had a keyboard and mechanical printer along with a > paper tape punch/reader. He said that you could type in a letter and > insert a pause any place where you wanted to insert unique data such as > a name. The unit would save everything on punched paper tape. You could > then feed the PT back into and it would type the letter. When it got to > the pause it would stop and let you manually type in the name or other > data and then it would continue and finish the letter. Does anyone know Many amchines could do that. One example is the Friden Flexowriter (you punched a 'stop reader' control code for each pause, then hit the appropriate button after typing in the name or whatever. The Flexowriter is a lot smaller than 'desk sized' though. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 4 19:28:35 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Feb 4, 3 01:36:58 pm Message-ID: > > Trivia2: There were numerous type balls for the selectric, including APL! > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > TSK! TSK! TSK!!! ELEMENTS!!! > > > I mean, honestly - we are *supposed* to be experts here, right??? I suppose you also want me to talk about ROS (Read Only Store) rather than ROM, pels rather than pixels, planar boards rather than motherboards, and so on. But actually I'd rather not turn into an IBM-droid... ( ;-) in case you're wondering) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 4 19:28:51 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, In-Reply-To: <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 3, 3 10:15:20 pm Message-ID: > By the way... today the Sears repairman arrived to verify the validity > of complaints from my parents about their new washer and dryer > (absolute pieces of cheaply-made and annoying junk - beware) that That, alas does not suprise me. Very little made today is made properly. > replaced approx. 25 and 35 year old machines that were well made and > worked nicely (until Sears/Whirlpool discontinued parts to repair them > with). His eyes nearly popped out of his head as he looked around at > my collection of electronics and computer equipment; as he was Yes, serious computer collections have this effect. As do serious toolkits. > leaving, he remarked that he hopes that no one calls the eff b aye > about what all I have, as they might think I'm "building a satellite Since when has building a satellite been illegal? > or something." Zog! Now, are those of us in the US to be considered > criminals because we collect, build and hack all sorts of computer and > electronics equipment as a harmless hobby (or is the knowledge and > ability to do this now considered dangerous by our elected idiots, I am convinced that most governments don't want to deal with a public who can think for themselves (after all such people might realise what the government is trying to get up to...) That's why they try to dumb everything down... -tony From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Feb 4 19:31:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: [OT] Anyone experienced with white LEDs? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204174143.00ae66d0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3E406918.2080805@gifford.co.uk> Roger Merchberger wrote: > [2] - I wish I could find SMT white LEDs... :-/ I've just had a look at the RS Components site (because the Farnell site is down): http://rswww.com They list "Ultra-bright" surface-mount white LEDs, stock number 267-1812, for ?4.71 *each*. Brightness is 40millicandelas. I expect you'll be able to find a similar part from a U.S. supplier. These LEDs are often used for LCD backlighting in portable gadgets. I think Maxim do an application note on "Driving White LEDs". -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 4 19:32:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, In-Reply-To: References: <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Message-ID: <4807.4.20.168.139.1044408587.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > That, alas does not suprise me. Very little made today is made properly. Naturally, since most of the sheep won't pay more for things made properly. It's a triumph of crapitalism. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Feb 4 19:37:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions References: Message-ID: <3E406A5E.4030809@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > I have a reprint of an old (1912-ish) book on Telegraphy, and it uses a > similar linkage for a binart to 1-of-n decoder to position a typewheel > for a printing telegraph machine. So the idea is pretty old. I've seen a 3-bit-binary to one-of-eight decoder built out of huge brass and bakelite relays. It's in the London Transport Museum, and was used to drive the train indicators on the platforms of the London Underground (subway). The train indicator tells the passengers where the next train is going to by lighting up an arrow next to the name of a station. Only three wires need be run along the tunnels from the signalbox, giving seven possible destinations and an "off" state. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Feb 4 19:51:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: OT: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, References: <200302042119.h14LJQj02645@shell1.aracnet.com> <20030205013518.GF11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3E406D58.1040406@eoni.com> And you too can be placed in a military detention facility for an indefinite period of time while legal representation is denied you as a "person of interest". WAKE UP AMERIKA, IT IS HAPPENING HERE. The Constitution has been suspended. In the name of the "War on (drugs, terrorist, insert today's word here)" Three years ago, the below might have been fun. Today, it's a good way to disappear. Jim R. D. Davis wrote: > Hmmm... Just for fun, I suggest that we all buy lots of grow lamps as > well, as I hear the spooks are suspicious of those too and do checks > for them... place them near a frosted window and leave them lit all > the time... grow some sort of house plants or herbs (they're not > illegal yet), but keep lots of beakers, bunsen burners, contraptions > that look like stills with valves connected to computers, etc. near > the plants just for the heck of it... use 'em to prepare cups of > herbal tea, herbal remedies, dinner, or whatever. If everyone did > something "suspicious," yet harmless, like that, it sure would screw > up Big Brother's spook system. :-) > > Oh, yeah, buy lots of "suspicious" books as well, as I hear they're > trying to keep track of the books we read. Now then, where'd I put my > copy of "Computer Controlled Potato Launchers and High Power Spark > Gap, and Other, RFI Generators for Novice Jeffersonian > Revolutionaries?" ;-) From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Feb 4 20:06:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: summary: DEC VAX/VXT2000 and monitors Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA0D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, Thanks all for the info. Basically, there's a whole myriad of cards and monitors for DEC systems, and there's no single tube that works with them all. Solution (for me, ymmv) was to get a (cheap! :) multisync monitor with BNC connectors and sync-on-green capability - I was able to get a used Iiyama MF8117T (known to US people as IDEK MF8117T) 17" tube. Works like a charm, rock-solid picture on all systems I could set up for testing. Neat! I am typing this in a window on that thing, connected to the VXT2000+ X Terminal, which in turn is connected to my OpenBSD VAX (4100). Yay! --fred From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 4 20:08:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: <3E406A5E.4030809@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Feb 5, 3 01:35:26 am Message-ID: > I've seen a 3-bit-binary to one-of-eight decoder built out of > huge brass and bakelite relays. It's in the London Transport Museum, > and was used to drive the train indicators on the platforms of There wasa similar thing used to decode the 4-bit code as to what train was expected next, used in signal boxes, etc on the London Underground. That was certainly (large) mechanical relays. The 4-bit train descriptor codes were stored in an electromechanical FIFO, consisting of a drum with a number of rows of 4 pegs around it. Each peg could be in one of 2 states (towards the spindle or shifted away from the spindle. There was a fixed solenoid mechanism to set the pegs, the whole drum then moved round one position (equivalent to incremementing the write pointer in a software FIFO). There was a separately revolving contact assembly to sense the position of each row of pegs and feed it to the decoder. This was stepped on as each train came through -- equivalent to incrememnting the read pointer. The whole thing is _exactly_ like the classic software FIFO we've all implelmented many times. I don't know when it was built, but around 1920? It's described in detail in an old book I have called 'Modern Electrical Engineering' which alas has no dates on it. -tony From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 4 20:10:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: [OT] Anyone experienced with white LEDs? In-Reply-To: <3E406918.2080805@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <20030205020709.73783.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Honniball wrote: > I think Maxim do an application note on "Driving White LEDs". They do. I've read it. The reason for it is that they sell a current balancing chip to minimize visible brightness differences by actively balancing current usage. Having built a 10 LED array (for a tent lamp while camping for two weeks) by wiring 10 white LEDs (from BG Micro) in parallel to a 3.6V Craftsman VersaPak battery, each LED ranges from blue-white to purple-white to cyan-white. The app note describes having several loops of LEDs in series. Given a better design that I had, that makes more sense. OTOH, I put mine together with stuff lying around the house and garnered at thrift stores! Plenty of light in a 12' diameter tent for hours on end. -ethan From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Feb 4 20:16:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, References: <20030204031520.GE11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. <4807.4.20.168.139.1044408587.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <01a501c2ccbb$e66dc760$0400fea9@game> Devices today are made to last untill the warranty just expires. They are made cheaply so you buy the same item again in a year or 2 keeping the companies cranking them out. If EVERY washing machine lasted 35 years the market for the machines would die in a few years and the companies making them would be out of buisiness. That and most people wouldnt want to spend 5x the cost of the cheap washing machines to get the good model. Ever notice that repair shops that used to thrive repairing tv's, stereo's, computers, vacuum cleaners etc are now non existant? Everything is built to get tossed, not to be fixed and reused. High quality and commodity equipmet dont mix. The reason your 10+ year old computers still work is because they had a high markup making the manufacturer alot of money. Take away the profit and all you are left with is cutting cost (crappy components, cutting corners) just to make a small profit competeing with all the other widget makers. PC's today are the cheapest and most powerfull we have ever seen.. but they wont last 10+ years of constant use either. That and very few companies are making a profit selling the commodity stuff anymore, they are living off the fat of the good old days and when thats gone so are they. Sucks that maxtors 3 year warranties just got dropped to 1 year.. you know they dropped the quality also. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 8:29 PM Subject: Re: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, > > That, alas does not suprise me. Very little made today is made properly. > > Naturally, since most of the sheep won't pay more for things made > properly. It's a triumph of crapitalism. From patrick at evocative.com Tue Feb 4 20:27:01 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: [OT] Anyone experienced with white LEDs? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204174143.00ae66d0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: Merch, Reading off a convenient box of 60W bulbs, they produce 840 lumens, or 14 lumens per watt. This drops off slightly at lower wattages, so let's say it's 480 lumens for a 40W bulb. But that's non-reflected (like a bulb sitting in a socket with no reflector or shade), which isn't equivalent to the way an LED puts out light... you need a reflector. In a perfect world your reflector would focus 100% of the bulb's light, but in reality it will reflect significantly less. Let's say it's 75% for a good reflector... that's 360 lumens. There are about 12.6 lumens per candle, so that's about 28 candles. Given one of your examples below, the Super Flux LED at 20ma is 500 mcd (average), and 500mcd = 0.5 candles, so you'd need 56 of those rascals to produce the 28 candles roughly equivalent to a 40W incandescent with a reflector. I think... :-) I'm drawing on a little memory from a long-dead photography hobby... Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Roger Merchberger > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:51 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: [OT] Anyone experienced with white LEDs? > > > I'm looking at building a personal lighting project possibly using white > LEDs instead of regular miniature bulbs, and as I browsed the Mouser [snip] > Example: > > P. 217, "Super Flux LED Lamps" > The white one shows at 20mA it will put out 400-600 "Iv (mcd)" [snip] > Any good websites w/info on how to figure out how many LEDs I'd need to > make about a 40W (or more) lightbulb worth of light? From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Feb 4 20:34:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> <014b01c2c992$bbf41920$420add40@oemcomputer> <001e01c2c99e$28231a00$b5291941@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <020a01c2ccbe$b61383e0$320add40@oemcomputer> Last one I seen was up in MN at a thrift back early last year. Today I did pick up a 2000HD cpu only no KB, mouse, or monitor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeoZ" To: Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:01 PM Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > Know of anyplace where I can get a A590 HD addon for my A500 cheap? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keys" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > I have 4 of them in my collection and used them back in 1995. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "TeoZ" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:25 PM > > Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Anybody here using Amiga 500's? From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 4 20:46:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <1066704180.20030204204350@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I would like to propose [again] that we ... insert a tag [cctalk] in the > Subject: line of the postings There's another angle to this: crossposting. Say we put [cctalk] in front of cctalk messages, and [cctech] in front of cctech messages. A cctalk subscriber posts a message. It gets automagically crossposted to cctech, with a [cctech] header going out. Someone on cctech replies. It gets automagically crossposted to cctalk. Mailman doesn't know to strip off the [cctech] from cctalk crossposts. Congratulations, the subject now contains a [cctalk][cctech] double tag. Example: |Re: [cctalk] [cctech] Fwd: Re: Available in Milwau| There are workarounds, of course, but they detract from the original purpose of [listname] tags or require yet another filter in the mail pipeline. -- Jeffrey Sharp From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Feb 4 20:52:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> <014b01c2c992$bbf41920$420add40@oemcomputer> <001e01c2c99e$28231a00$b5291941@neo.rr.com> <020a01c2ccbe$b61383e0$320add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <01b601c2ccc0$ecadde80$0400fea9@game> How much was it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:31 PM Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > Last one I seen was up in MN at a thrift back early last year. Today I did > pick up a 2000HD cpu only no KB, mouse, or monitor. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TeoZ" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:01 PM > Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > Know of anyplace where I can get a A590 HD addon for my A500 cheap? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Keys" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 8:39 PM > > Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > > > > I have 4 of them in my collection and used them back in 1995. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "TeoZ" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:25 PM > > > Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Anybody here using Amiga 500's? From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 4 21:06:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 In-Reply-To: <20030204192846.QTAQ23484.out001.verizon.net@[192\.168\.129\.213]> References: <20030204192846.QTAQ23484.out001.verizon.net@[192.168.129.213]> Message-ID: <1107876045.20030204210322@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, chu@verizon.net wrote: > I just bought a PDP 11/73, but unfortunately UPS dropped it on the way. My suggestion would be to attempt an insurance claim. All UPS shipments are insured for at least $100 automatically. Hopefully you had more on this... -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 4 21:11:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Sun tapes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <378191178.20030204210837@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > Anyone need these tapes (about 13 1/4" QIC-24, I think) for cheap? For the > lot - $8 plus shipping for 10512? 'course, that still depends on how much it weights. But I'm interested. I've got a few Sun3s and 4s around here and zero software for them. > I thik I also have quite a few unused 1/4" tape carts, also cheap. Real > cheap. These aren't real important, but I'd still be interested if they wouldn't increase the cost of shipping by very much. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 4 21:18:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Same seller, more HP stuff on ebay Message-ID: <001d01c2ccc4$d0b340e0$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> The same seller that didn't sell his HP2000 system on ebay (and relisted it), is also auctioning separately an HP3030 tape drive that appears to be in great condition cosmetically. Nice piece of history! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3400167260&category=1479 From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 4 21:20:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Sun tapes In-Reply-To: <378191178.20030204210837@subatomix.com> References: <378191178.20030204210837@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <1458737994.20030204211744@subatomix.com> Oops, that was supposed to be private. On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > > Anyone need these tapes (about 13 1/4" QIC-24, I think) for cheap? For > > the lot - $8 plus shipping for 10512? > > 'course, that still depends on how much it weights. But I'm interested. > I've got a few Sun3s and 4s around here and zero software for them. > > > I thik I also have quite a few unused 1/4" tape carts, also cheap. Real > > cheap. > > These aren't real important, but I'd still be interested if they wouldn't > increase the cost of shipping by very much. -- Jeffrey Sharp From moored at student.charleshays.net Tue Feb 4 21:50:05 2003 From: moored at student.charleshays.net (Dean) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Burroughs Message-ID: <3E3D66B0.1090102@student.charleshays.net> Hi folks , >And, while we're asking, does anyone know what happened to Burroughs? >The Burroughs corporation eventually merged with Sperry Univac and got >absorbed into Unisys > > I've been lurking for a while , have a few old box's about but the ones i'm curious to know the rareity of are 3 Burroughs desktop type units from early 80's they are all 3 different models one newer 85 maybe , I'd have to dig them out and check the model numbers if need be , they all run the "B-20" operating system and booted and ran the last time they were plugged in (one is a smart terminal type ala net boot) . On a couple occasions i've searched all over the net for information and found very little other than the company history stored at the Babbage institute . Are these things as odd as I think they are or has info and availability just managed to elude me ? Thanks for your time Dean. From jwillis at manson.vistech.net Tue Feb 4 21:50:18 2003 From: jwillis at manson.vistech.net (jwillis@manson.vistech.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Columbia Message-ID: <030202135137.23003685@manson.vistech.net> 7 people died. 7 people die all the time. These 7 happened to be astronauts. Big deal. From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Tue Feb 4 21:50:24 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: intel 8008 References: <001601c2c885$17ebf360$0500a8c0@psyberne8gwty9> Message-ID: <004701c2cafb$b8bb2630$0101c80a@p2350> Sounds like Traf-O-Data, which later became Micro-Soft (now known as Microsoft, believe it or not). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Martin" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:29 PM Subject: intel 8008 > What is the name of the society fouded in 1972 that used intel 8008 fot a > system measuring traffic From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Tue Feb 4 21:54:15 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: Message-ID: <005501c2cafc$36fd1440$0101c80a@p2350> Nothing pointless about it :-) We used to have demo parties in Israel for a few years ('95-'98), I've been to all but one. Some of the best hours of my life were at these parties. Regardless the phenomenon was indeed not widespread in the US; the major demo groups were Hornet (Jim Leonard a.k.a Trixter of Hornet later went on to form www.oldskool.org, www.mobygames.com and www.mindcandydvd.com) and Reinnaisance (sp? some members went on to program or do music for games). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 8:43 PM Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > I have a progam somewhere for 8 bit Ataris that strung together a bunch > > of stills of a woman performing felatio, which I found more humorous > > than erotic. Also some 8- bit Demos by Michel Jarre and another even > > bigger German demo programmer whose name escapes me . Some of their > > sound-light programs are even now astounding. This was on-the-edge shit > > and for the most part seems to be dying (what do you do when not coding > > boring stuff) in favor of repeating some hi-paying sort of state > > propaganda shit based on GI-Joe. > > They still have a lot of "Demo Parties" in Europe where folks get together > and program pointless "demo" programs to show off their skills and what > they can do with old machines. > > This is a phenomenon that unfortunately did not make its way over to the > US :( > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Tue Feb 4 21:54:26 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030130171154.00b10810@mail.attbi.com> <069901c2c908$13d988e0$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <00c001c2cafd$55067b60$0101c80a@p2350> I am rather confident there was a PC port. I'll try and verify this later. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Brown" To: Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > So who remembers "The Fool's Errand" on the Mac---waaaay back! > Did it ever get ported eleswhere? I never quite got all the way through > it-IIRC. > > Dave Brown, NZ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Chapel" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 2:16 PM > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > > Amazing to see a thread about a computer game with good family values > > evolve into a discussion about french postcard porn. > > I guess the computing hobby involves a bit too much time spent alone. From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Tue Feb 4 21:54:32 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <010601c2cb0d$a61c6f90$0101c80a@p2350> Got A500+ and 2x A1000s. Non-PCs are extremely hard to come by here... :-/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeoZ" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 3:25 AM Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? > Hi, > > Anybody here using Amiga 500's? From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Tue Feb 4 21:54:39 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> <014b01c2c992$bbf41920$420add40@oemcomputer> <001e01c2c99e$28231a00$b5291941@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <011801c2cb0d$bbe2c6d0$0101c80a@p2350> I've seen a few on eBay. Also inquired about getting one from a local ex-retailer, but I've lost his details years ago... ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeoZ" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 5:01 AM Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > Know of anyplace where I can get a A590 HD addon for my A500 cheap? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keys" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > I have 4 of them in my collection and used them back in 1995. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "TeoZ" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:25 PM > > Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Anybody here using Amiga 500's? From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Tue Feb 4 21:54:45 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <200302010534.h115Y3J13333@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <014f01c2cb0e$4958c410$0101c80a@p2350> The A590 IS a SCSI interface... SCSI-2 FAST if I remember correctly. Also has an external SCSI connector. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 7:34 AM Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > I play games on mine mostly, but want to get a HD to do some programming on > > the system. Flipping floppies is starting to get annoying. > > Is there a SCSI adapter for the A500, and how hard would it be to get? The > HD expansions I've always seen don't strike me as being very reliable in > this day and age. > > If you want to do programming, I'd recommend getting a newer Amiga, or doing > it under Emulation. I've had Amiga OS 3.9 running on both my A3000/25 and > on my PC, I hate to admit it, but unless you're running something that > requires the HW, emulating the Amiga on a modern system blows the real HW > away. I couldn't believe the difference. Of course I've got to admit, that > you really should have an accelerator board, if you're going to try and run > AmigaOS 3.9. > > Now what I'd like to get a chance to play with is Amiga OS 4.0 on the new > hardware! I gather the OS will finally be released in March. > > Zane From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Tue Feb 4 21:54:52 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <20030201161217.10510.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <016101c2cb0e$8845c650$0101c80a@p2350> A quick Google for AmiNet and you'll have more Amiga hardware hack docs than you can shake a stick at. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 6:12 PM Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > I play games on mine mostly, but want to get a HD to do some programming on > > the system. Flipping floppies is starting to get annoying. > > there are a few schematics for Amiga hard disk controllers floating around the > 'net, of varying degrees of complexity - I'll see if I've still got any > bookmarked. I seem to remember that the most promising one was all in Russian > though. I went overseas before I could try wiring anything up unfortunately, > but maybe I'll get back on the case someday... > > cheers > > Jules > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Tue Feb 4 21:55:01 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <02b101c2c7e0$bd3516d0$434a1942@starfury> <01e701c2c7e5$610ee700$0100000a@milkyway> <02f901c2c7e7$5be43350$434a1942@starfury> <00a001c2c892$5d3574c0$0101c80a@p2350> <004301c2caba$b6042d10$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <017f01c2cb0e$f8acf3a0$0101c80a@p2350> MobyGames is not an abandonware website -- it's a repository of information of all sorts on all games. An ambitious project, but I've been with it since it started and it's coming off amazingly well. As for the games, they're not considered rare as far as I know; I almost bought the three of them off eBay for about $30 but got beat by a couple of USD. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Tillman" To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 2:57 PM Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > I went to the page. There's all kinds of info there, but no like provided > access to a copy, freebie or purchase -- including eBay and Amazon.com... > Have these games entered the "rare" collection? > > Cheers... > > Ed > San Antonio, Tx, USA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tomer Gabel" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 01:04 PM > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > > The Castle, Island or Lost Mind of Dr. Brain games came out for the IBM PC > > (VGA) in the very early '90s ('91, '92 and '95 respectively). Unless there > > were other games these were based on, there are no TRS-80 versions. There > > was definitely an Amiga version of "Castle" and I vaguely recall an Amiga > > version for "Island"; there may also have been an Atari ST version of > > "Castle." > > > > By the way, information of this nature can be found in > > http://www.mobygames.com -- a site which I heartily recommend. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ed Tillman" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:40 AM > > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > > > > > Can you tell me/us what they're like? Mama swears by them, but I don't > > > recall ever having seen them. And, by "PC," does that mean current or > > DOS? > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > > > Ed > > > San Antonio, Tx, USA > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Philip Pemberton" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 04:25 PM > > > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > > > > > > > > I've got the PC VGA versions of "Turbo Science", "Castle of Doctor > > Brain" > > > > and "Island of Doctor Brain". Disks are in a box somewhere, same for > the > > > > manuals. > > > > > > > > Later. > > > > -- > > > > Phil. From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Tue Feb 4 21:55:10 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: HP2100 References: Message-ID: <019301c2cb0f$27299620$0101c80a@p2350> Being a 20 year old, I resent that :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 6:50 PM Subject: Re: HP2100 > On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, lee courtney wrote: > > > Yes, very much worth rescuing. Very nice 1970's era 16 bit > > minicomputer. There are many of these machines in use in all kinds of > > embedded and real-time applications. > > > > If you can't find anyone interested in the Seattle area and its > > running, consider donating it to a local high school computer club. > > BUT ONLY IF THEY'RE CLUEFUL! Or have someone who is, giving them some > guidance. > > The odds of anyone of highschool age, at this point in time, appreciating > such a system are quite slim. The 15-18 yr olds of today were born > around 1985-1988 (gah!), so most of them--even the computer savvy ones-- > probably didn't even become cognizant of different computer types until > at least the early 1990s. > > -brian. From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:55:23 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > I'm trying to think of all the really old computer companies that are > > still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make computers. DEC and DG > > are gone. So there's HP, IBM, Bull... are there any others left from > > way-back-when? Oh yeah, there's Siemens. And Amdahl's part of Fujitsu > > now. Do they still count? I guess Fujitsu probably counts on its own > > merits. Hitachi and Toshiba left the industry recently, after many years. > > And then there's Unisys, with their recent turn to weird hybrid systems. > > Did I miss anyone? > > Sure... SGI and Sun. Are they even in the lame league as being old enough? Most of the companies I listed (DG and HP are the major exceptions) have been making systems since the '50s. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:55:31 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:32 2005 Subject: Something for all you PS/2 fans In-Reply-To: <200302020924160013.4A24B180@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: Oops. I forgot the URL. Stupid me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2305104955&category=11215 Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Bruce Lane wrote: > Good morning, > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 02-Feb-03 at 09:43 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > >Anyone want PS/2 Mod 95's? Apparently some of them have Type-IV (! -- > >expensive) complexes. > > Hmmmm! I may well be interested. Where might these wondrous machines be found? > > Thanks much. > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior > to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:55:38 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: IBM Series/1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know where to find pictures, but they are either a single- or double-wide 19" IBM rack with a bunch of very IBM-ish looking modules. Pretty nondescript. If you pick it up and are interested in playing with it, I have access to a full set of software and schematics. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Mike Ross wrote: > Hi, > > May have a line on one of those... I know they're interesting, I've heard > they have something resembling an operator panel, but I've never actually > seen one and I can't find any pics on the web... can anybody point me to > some? > > Thanks > > Mike > http://www.corestore.org > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:55:48 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you don't want off-topic emails, subscibe to CCTECH, not CCTALK. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > Columbia.. I regret it happened ... > > But is this not a classic-computer talk-group? > > I don't want to receive such e-mails anymore... These are far off-topic... > > Michel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Eric Dittman > Verzonden: zondag 2 februari 2003 19:23 > Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Onderwerp: Re: Columbia > > > > > ...for that matter, only 2 complete craft/crew losses for the shuttle > > > program in over 20 years; and including these, only *3* complete > craft/crew > > > losses in a space program that's run for nearly 35 years? That's still > a > > > damned good record in anyone's book, regardless of what the detractors > may > > > say... Name me an aircraft or series of aircraft who can make the same > > > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > > > closest to beating this record...) > > > > Southwest Airlines. > > Southwest Airlines is an airline, not airliner. He was asking > for a model of passenger airplane. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:55:58 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Something for all you PS/2 fans In-Reply-To: <3E3D6A1D.6040609@internet1.net> Message-ID: No, but I'd like to if I could find someone to pick them up for me. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > Anyone want PS/2 Mod 95's? Apparently some of them have Type-IV (! -- > > expensive) complexes. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > > > Yes! Did you buy those 12 on Ebay or something? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:56:05 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > claim. (Noogies for the person who can name the *1* airliner that comes > > closest to beating this record...) > > Howard Hughe's "Spruce Goose" has NEVER crashed. LOL It barely flew. Peace... Sridhar From aek at spies.com Tue Feb 4 21:56:13 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies Message-ID: <200302030204.h1324skp031913@spies.com> > In the lobby of the building was Gene Amdahl's first computer, not for sale. Gene's first computer was WISC. The console is at the Computer History Museum. A picture of the complete machine is at http://www.spies.com/aek/pdf/brl/compSurvey_Mar1961/BRL_jpgs/1020_WISC.jpg From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:56:20 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <20030202215558.77087.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: But Hitachi still makes *computers*. DG no longer does. I listed HP. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, evan wrote: > Hitachi and IBM merged their disk drives groups, into > a new co-owned company, Hitachi Global Storage > Technologies (www.hgst.com). DEC was bought by > Compaq, ergo HP. DG was bought by EMC. > > --- vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > I'm trying to think of all the really old computer > > companies that are > > still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make > > computers. DEC and DG > > are gone. So there's HP, IBM, Bull... are there > > any others left from > > way-back-when? Oh yeah, there's Siemens. And > > Amdahl's part of Fujitsu > > now. Do they still count? I guess Fujitsu probably > > counts on its own > > merits. Hitachi and Toshiba left the industry > > recently, after many years. > > And then there's Unisys, with their recent turn to > > weird hybrid systems. > > Did I miss anyone? > > > > Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:56:29 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <20030202233111.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2003.02.01 12:43 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > are there any others left from way-back-when? > Define closer. 50'is, 60'is 70'is??? Late '50's, early '60's. I'm mainly interested in companies who are still engaged in development in pre-UNIX platforms or their descendants. > > Oh yeah, there's Siemens. > Well. The IT part of Siemens is based on the Zuse KG and later merged > with Nixdorf... > > > Did I miss anyone? > SGI. > Sun. > Apple. They really aren't that old. > Sequent was absorbed by IBM. I was aware of this. > Motorola. Do they still make computers? > Oliveti? Is Oliveti still alive? Yes, but they currently only make telecomms equipment, as far as I know. > Robotron - dead. I'm not familiar with them. > Fujitsu. I mentioned Fujitsu. > NEC. There's one I missed. > Norsk Data? I'm not familiar with them either. > Intergraph left some years ago. Indeed. > Symbolics? Isn't there a reminder of Symbolics still alive? Really? Do they still sell machines? I would love to have a brand new LISP machine. > Intel!? I don't know if they still make systems. Other than eval kits, that is. > Texas Instruments. (Still produceing DSPs) Do they make machines? Peace... Sridhar From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Feb 4 21:56:36 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: DECserver 700-16 firmware etc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi folks, Finally got my VAX sorted and purring nicely, though that RZ28 is v.troublesome and gets marked read only as soon as I try and do anything with it. Sort that out later. Anyway, I've put the DECserver firmware here: ftp://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/pub/DEC/other/decserver/wweng1.sys If you're using a non-browser to connect you'll obviously know what to do; I don't want to be accused of teaching egg-suckage :) It's anon ftp and therefore read only..... More stuff to come, including DNAS 2.2 once I find the bloody thing. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:56:43 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Something for all you PS/2 fans In-Reply-To: <3E3E910A.2070906@Vishay.com> Message-ID: Try http://www.chipchat.com/. You can still buy a 16-bit sound card with 32-voice MIDI for MCA brand new for a reasonable price. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Any sound boards in there (which happen *not* to be M/ACPA)? - Shipping > a complete system to Germany will certainly be expensive, but I've been > looking for a soundboard to run with WinNT on a PS/2 for ages... > > vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > Anyone want PS/2 Mod 95's? Apparently some of them have Type-IV (! -- > > expensive) complexes. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > -- > Andreas Freiherr > Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany > http://www.vishay.com From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:56:51 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > I think that you all didn't saw that i was forgotten to put an 's' inbetween > the b and the c of unsub(s)cribe. > > That's why I posted it two times... so the one who clames that I posted > 'unsubscribe' twice ... lies... > > Read your messages closely!!!!!!! Maybe you should RTFM before you get obnoxious. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:56:59 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Unsubscribability In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > What's the difference between spam and these rediculous mails... I don't > now... > > Please stop this crap.... Go away and it will stop. Peace... Sridhar From gksloane at hotmail.com Tue Feb 4 21:57:08 2003 From: gksloane at hotmail.com (Sbus Eng) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: marvin - still got any Cado hardware/software for sale? Gary _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From lxwelti at comcast.net Tue Feb 4 21:57:15 2003 From: lxwelti at comcast.net (Alex Welti) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: I saw you post 12-17-02 about Intel 1602 Message-ID: <000001c2cc19$e522d870$0100a8c0@GSMegaWatt> I have been handed down a room full of electronics - my brother-in-law's father passed away - and I am the nearest relative who has a career in electronics, so... I am spending my evenings going through and identifing parts, most of which I am familiar with and have datasheets on. However, I can't find anything on these i C8702A. A web search brought me to your posting. I am hoping you have a datasheet or know where I should go to find one. Thanks, Alex From RCTech at cnri.us Tue Feb 4 21:57:22 2003 From: RCTech at cnri.us (RCTech) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Multitec Plus 700 PC, information on Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030204084217.00b7adf0@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> I have one of the original IBM compatible clones made by Multitech (Plus 700 model). But can not find any of the documentation. Does anyone on this forum have any information on the internals of this PC? From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:57:31 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: OT Re: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: <3E3FF98C.7078.4ED44E53@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > P.S. Is this blocking local to your ISP or is it national? > > Company Account. Tey think they have to 'save' their employees. so I > still get all the Spam Mails, and can of yourse go onto all the new sex > sites... Time to set up a proxy server at home. Peace... Sridhar From bluegenie at ntlworld.com Tue Feb 4 21:57:39 2003 From: bluegenie at ntlworld.com (bluegenie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: 386 Message-ID: <3E401A4C.000003.01840@graham> I am after some baby at 286/386/486 motherboards of size aprox 8 3/4 inches x 6 3/4 inches Can you help Graham Challis [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of IMSTP.gif] [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type Image/jpeg which had a name of 2.jpg] From skeane at apogeedata.com Tue Feb 4 21:57:46 2003 From: skeane at apogeedata.com (Steven Keane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: KDJ11-EA or EB Message-ID: I need an 11/93 CPU board Willing to pay top dollar Steven Keane Apogee Data Systems 11 Bricketts Mill Road Hampstead, NH 03841 Phone: 603 329-5676 Fax: 978 964-0561 Toll Free 866 287-2996 Cell: 603 231-8400 Email: skeane@apogeedata.com From koub at earthlink.net Tue Feb 4 21:57:54 2003 From: koub at earthlink.net (KOUB) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Replacment battery for HP 32 E Message-ID: <002b01c2cc92$1e9d1de0$01f7b3d1@f9e4l5> I have a HP 32 E in excellent condition. My only trouble is the original battery willn ot hold a charge. How do I go about replacing it? Keith L. Wagner 5680 Walnut Ave. Chino Ca. 91710 e-mail From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 4 21:58:04 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, In-Reply-To: <200302042119.h14LJQj02645@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > Now, are those of us in the US to be considered criminals because we > > > collect, build and hack all sorts of computer and electronics > > > equipment as a harmless hobby (or is the knowledge and ability to do > > > this now considered dangerous by our elected idiots, since they > > > obviously lack the ability to think intelligently about anything?)? > > > > Well, given that the DCMA is a standing U.S. federal law, you can > > probably answer that question yourself. But basically, the Sears > > repairman was right; didn't you know that it's a federal crime to try > > to understand those systems you're collecting? > > What I've been wondering about is, how long before we start setting off > alarms in some Government agency due to our abnormally high use of > electricity? Or due to the abnormally high level of heat in area's of > our home? Back when I used an ES/9000 in my parents house, I managed to attract the attention of the law. There were two DEA agents from the local office with one of the local sheriff's deputys with him. They showed up and asked me if I was growing marijuana. I said something to the effect of, "What gave you that idea?" They showed me a report from the power company. I laughed and told them to come look for themselves. They were quite unprepared for the size of my computer, I can tell you that. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Feb 4 22:02:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> <014b01c2c992$bbf41920$420add40@oemcomputer> <001e01c2c99e$28231a00$b5291941@neo.rr.com> <020a01c2ccbe$b61383e0$320add40@oemcomputer> <01b601c2ccc0$ecadde80$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <028201c2ccca$f8d0f8a0$320add40@oemcomputer> $12.99 ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeoZ" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 8:47 PM Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > How much was it? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keys" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > Last one I seen was up in MN at a thrift back early last year. Today I > did > > pick up a 2000HD cpu only no KB, mouse, or monitor. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "TeoZ" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:01 PM > > Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > > > > Know of anyplace where I can get a A590 HD addon for my A500 cheap? > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Keys" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 8:39 PM > > > Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > > > > > > > I have 4 of them in my collection and used them back in 1995. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "TeoZ" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:25 PM > > > > Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > Anybody here using Amiga 500's? From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Feb 4 22:08:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> <014b01c2c992$bbf41920$420add40@oemcomputer> <001e01c2c99e$28231a00$b5291941@neo.rr.com> <020a01c2ccbe$b61383e0$320add40@oemcomputer> <01b601c2ccc0$ecadde80$0400fea9@game> <028201c2ccca$f8d0f8a0$320add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <021301c2cccb$86716140$0400fea9@game> Very good deal if it works. I just tracked down an A1200 for $60+ shipping from an ex user.. they go for alot more on ebay in the US while they are junk cheap in the UK. People bid up equipment on EBAY using fake accounts, I hate that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:59 PM Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > $12.99 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TeoZ" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 8:47 PM > Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > How much was it? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Keys" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:31 PM > > Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > > > > Last one I seen was up in MN at a thrift back early last year. Today I > > did > > > pick up a 2000HD cpu only no KB, mouse, or monitor. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "TeoZ" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:01 PM > > > Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > > > > > > > Know of anyplace where I can get a A590 HD addon for my A500 cheap? > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Keys" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 8:39 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 4 of them in my collection and used them back in 1995. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "TeoZ" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:25 PM > > > > > Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody here using Amiga 500's? From chu at verizon.net Tue Feb 4 22:08:11 2003 From: chu at verizon.net (chu@verizon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 Message-ID: <20030205040545.WMYW20431.pop016.verizon.net@[192.168.129.98]> Thats what I was hoping. I think that it is trying to boot from the disk that I think is dead. I have a vt420 to hook up, but I do not have the cabling that I need. I just bought a gender changer and a null modem on eBay. When they get here I will hook it up to see what the console output says. Thanks, Dave Chu >I just bought a PDP 11/73, but >unfortunately UPS dropped it >on the way. So I am trying to >what ever documentation and >diagnostics that I can locate >to figure out how badly it was >damaged. >The mounts for the tape drive and >disk drive were broken as well as >all of the external plastic. >The machine powers up and goes through >some self diagnostics, stopping with the >LED's reading "01". The disk drive stays >quite and unlit, my conclusion was that it >appears dead. >I am looking for any help that I can get. > >TIA, >Dave Chu > > > What is reported on the console port? Plug in a terminal/etc and see what it tells you. If there is a problem, it should display a more useful error message. I believe that at 01, it is trying to boot the software from wherever it is set up to boot from. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Feb 4 22:08:17 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips? In-Reply-To: <20030204194901.78823.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030204194901.78823.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200302042005470181.56BC91FB@192.168.42.129> Hi, Ethan, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 04-Feb-03 at 11:49 Ethan Dicks wrote: >I am needing to burn PLCC-packaged chips in my DIP programmer. I >expect I need to locate a PLCC<->DIP adapter of the right size >(for 29C010 and 28F101 Flash chips, at the moment). Thinking about it >made me wonder if any of the sockets were ZIF or LIF. > >Any ideas? Any recommendation on a source for adapters? Emulation Technologies makes all kinds of DIP-to-whatever adapters. Yes, there is such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC's. If you don't feel like spending $$ on adapters, I provide programming services as part of my side business, and I can certainly handle the PLCC version of the chips you mention. Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From chu at verizon.net Tue Feb 4 22:17:00 2003 From: chu at verizon.net (chu@verizon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 Message-ID: <20030205041433.WOFC20431.pop016.verizon.net@[192.168.129.98]> UPS has already come by and they agreed to process a claim. My options are to get my money back and give them the machine or to get it fixed and they pay for the repairs or replacement -- up to my costs. I don't think replacement is very possible. The UPS guy suggested that I go to circuit city or Best Buy and buy the replacement parts.... Uhhhhh..... Dave Chu Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:03:22 -0600 From: Jeffrey Sharp To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, chu@verizon.net wrote: > I just bought a PDP 11/73, but unfortunately UPS dropped it on the way. My suggestion would be to attempt an insurance claim. All UPS shipments are insured for at least $100 automatically. Hopefully you had more on this... -- Jeffrey Sharp --__--__-- From loedman1 at juno.com Tue Feb 4 22:18:00 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Unsubscribability Message-ID: <20030204.201246.-8055.2.loedman1@juno.com> Have you ever considered that you are making yourself an excellent target, your attitude is amusing and you certainly do not play well with others. (Is this a top post ?) Rich Stephenson California >What's the difference between spam and these ridiculous mails... I don't >now... >Please stop this crap.... >Michel From loedman1 at juno.com Tue Feb 4 22:18:07 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Columbia - THIS THREAD MUST DIE Message-ID: <20030204.201246.-8055.1.loedman1@juno.com> >I think that you all didn't saw that i was forgotten to put an 's' inbetween >the b and the c of unsub(s)cribe. >That's why I posted it two times... so the one who clames that I posted >'unsubscribe' twice ... lies... >Read your messages closely!!!!!!! >Michel Bye now !!! Rich From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Feb 4 22:20:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <030202135137.23003685@manson.vistech.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 jwillis@manson.vistech.net wrote: > 7 people died. 7 people die all the time. These 7 happened to be astronauts. > Big deal. > Troll. *plonk* g. From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 4 22:29:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 Message-ID: <3812885468.20030204222651@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, chu@verizon.net wrote: > UPS has already come by and they agreed to process a claim. My options are > to get my money back and give them the machine or to get it fixed and they > pay for the repairs or replacement -- up to my costs. Personally? If it's borken enough, I'd give 'em the machine and take the dough. /73s are common enough that another will come along within a year, probably sooner. -- Jeffrey Sharp From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 4 22:38:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: [cc] RE: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA03@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Oh. You mean, your stupid mail client cant even widen its display? Get > a real mail client then, dude. > > See how fucked-up that comment is? Right. Same goes for another comment > stating that "every decent mail client can do processing". It's simply > not true. Like my statement above. People use all sorts of clients, and > they all have different capabilities. I didn't make that comment. But anyway, if I wanted to I could simply expand my telnet window, but I don't want to do that. I just want this stupid arguing over every little nuance of classiccmp to go away. > Settle down, dude. No. > > Just accept it already and SHUT UP! > No. Yes ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 4 22:40:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: PeeCee obtained 5000AT - help on the way! In-Reply-To: <00e901c2cc8f$5f1163c0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > The Ritual: Shortly before the second hand reaches the "12" mark (looks like > you will need a watch too), walk to the printer and: <...> This has got to be the most bizarre thing I have ever read on ClassicCmp ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 4 22:55:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 References: <3812885468.20030204222651@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <008501c2ccd2$72eedb50$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> hell no! get a price from keyways.com to repair it, and send the bill to the carrier. Don't tell them it's an antique computer or museum piece, I seem to recall that voids your coverage. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: Re: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 > On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, chu@verizon.net wrote: > > UPS has already come by and they agreed to process a claim. My options are > > to get my money back and give them the machine or to get it fixed and they > > pay for the repairs or replacement -- up to my costs. > > Personally? If it's borken enough, I'd give 'em the machine and take the > dough. /73s are common enough that another will come along within a year, > probably sooner. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 4 23:11:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: PeeCee obtained 5000AT - help on the way! References: Message-ID: <009501c2ccd4$a8648c10$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Sellam wrote.. > This has got to be the most bizarre thing I have ever read on ClassicCmp > ;) and probably one of the funniest. I laughed my butt off. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Feb 4 23:13:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > > On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > I'm trying to think of all the really old computer companies that are > > > still in business. GE and Honeywell no longer make computers. DEC and DG > > > are gone. So there's HP, IBM, Bull... are there any others left from > > > way-back-when? Oh yeah, there's Siemens. And Amdahl's part of Fujitsu > > > now. Do they still count? I guess Fujitsu probably counts on its own > > > merits. Hitachi and Toshiba left the industry recently, after many years. > > > And then there's Unisys, with their recent turn to weird hybrid systems. > > > Did I miss anyone? > > > > Sure... SGI and Sun. > > Are they even in the lame league as being old enough? Most of the > companies I listed (DG and HP are the major exceptions) have been making > systems since the '50s. Ah, sorry. I missed the "really old computer companies" part of your original query. Are any of the early UK based companies still in business? -brian. From ssj152 at charter.net Tue Feb 4 23:21:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 References: <20030205040545.WMYW20431.pop016.verizon.net@[192.168.129.98]> Message-ID: <01fb01c2ccd6$037aead0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; "Kevin Handy" Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:05 PM Subject: Re: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 > Thats what I was hoping. I think that > it is trying to boot from the disk > that I think is dead. > I have a vt420 to hook up, but > I do not have the cabling that I need. > I just bought a gender changer and a > null modem on eBay. When they get here > I will hook it up to see what the console > output says. > > Thanks, > Dave Chu > Dave, remember that many MMJ cables and wiring are already wired as null-modem. See http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/padapters.html for details on many common adapters and cables related to DEC/Compaq/HP terminals and computers. Hope this helps! Stuart Johnson From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Tue Feb 4 23:40:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <005501c2cafc$36fd1440$0101c80a@p2350> References: <005501c2cafc$36fd1440$0101c80a@p2350> Message-ID: <1044423625.1662.6.camel@azure.subsolar> On Sun, 2003-02-02 at 14:46, Tomer Gabel wrote: > Regardless the phenomenon was indeed not widespread in the US; the major > demo groups were Hornet (Jim Leonard a.k.a Trixter of Hornet later went on > to form www.oldskool.org, www.mobygames.com and www.mindcandydvd.com) and > Reinnaisance (sp? some members went on to program or do music for games). I was too old to get involved much with the "demo scene" although the local computer club we did do stuff like demos back in the late 70's early 80's before computers became mainstream. Kenny Chow (CC Catch) of Renissance went on to make game music for Epic Mega games. I don't know of any recent projects he has done though. Several better trackers from the early 90s went on to do lots of game music. Paul From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Feb 5 00:50:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <08ac01c2cce2$6c496620$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:06 AM Subject: OT/Admin: tags > Given the volume of the list, and the many off-topic (lets not discuss > what is and is not on-topic here) talk, I would like to propose [again] > that we do like other lists do: insert a tag [cctalk] in the Subject: > line of the postings, so it's easy to distinguis the postings from > other, perhaps more pressing e-mail. <...> > I don't want to start Yet Another Discussion, a mere vote would do, as > we're all techies who know what this is about. > > Cheers, > Fred > No, thanks. It works pretty well as is for me. Stuart Johnson From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Feb 5 01:22:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: PeeCee obtained 5000AT - help on the way! References: Message-ID: <094601c2cce6$d6ebfed0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:34 PM Subject: Re: PeeCee obtained 5000AT - help on the way! > On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > > > This has got to be the most bizarre thing I have ever read on ClassicCmp > ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * Thank you! I must have been in a "mood". When I saw the "God, I feel dirty now" comment, I couldn't resist. My response was somewhat inspired by a cartoon ("Shoe") that I read once that told a user that, to fix a problem, he had to sacrifice a goat on his keyboard at the new moon :-) As you might guess, the technician and vacuum cleaner incident actually happened - and in my presence - although not quite as stated. The prayers all came after the chief engineer began to tear the technician a "new one". No, I wasn't the technician... and it could have been worse - at first the technician was going to use "factory" air - air with oil in it! That would have been splendiferous! The real "incident" was MUCH funnier than I told it here! My eyes are watering now, just remembering it. Innocence lost... Stuart Johnson From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Feb 5 02:31:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <3E3D9FF3.1010204@gifford.co.uk>; from coredump@gifford.co.uk on Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 23:47:15 CET References: <20030202233111.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3E3D9FF3.1010204@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <20030205002236.A1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.02 23:47 John Honniball wrote: > Jochen Kunz wrote: > > Norsk Data? > Whatever happened to them? I don't know. I hoped that someone here knows. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From hansp at aconit.org Wed Feb 5 03:20:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies References: <20030202233111.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3E3D9FF3.1010204@gifford.co.uk> <20030205002236.A1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3E40D6BB.9000109@aconit.org> Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2003.02.02 23:47 John Honniball wrote: >>Jochen Kunz wrote: >>>Norsk Data? >>Whatever happened to them? > I don't know. I hoped that someone here knows. Something at the back of my mind tells me that ICL bought them out quite some time ago. No confirmation of that on Google though. -- hbp From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Feb 5 04:06:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: ; from vance@neurotica.com on Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 03:10:21 CET References: <20030202233111.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20030205105928.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.03 03:10 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > Motorola. > Do they still make computers? AFAIK they still produce embedded / industrial controll systems. > > Robotron - dead. > I'm not familiar with them. Robotron was the East German computer / electronics "company". Was absorbed by Siemens. > > Norsk Data? > I'm not familiar with them either. I am not very familiar with them. They made some minicomputers in the 70'es, mayby some other stuff too. > > Symbolics? Isn't there a reminder of Symbolics still alive? > Really? Do they still sell machines? I would love to have a brand > new LISP machine. AFAIK they only provide support for existing systems. No new hardware. Anyone ever seen Open Genera (Genera for DEC 3000 hardware)? I only know that it exists. > > Texas Instruments. (Still produceing DSPs) > Do they make machines? If you count evaluatin kits as machines? ;-) I was not sure if you meant "somehow in business" or still producing machines. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Feb 5 04:37:01 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <20030205105928.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20030202233111.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20030205105928.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <63128.62.148.198.97.1044441252.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Jochen Kunz said: > On 2003.02.03 03:10 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > >> > Norsk Data? >> I'm not familiar with them either. > I am not very familiar with them. They made some minicomputers in the > 70'es, mayby some other stuff too. I've seen (well, almost) Norsk Data machines in, hmm.. how should I phrase that: "big controversial power plants where security is quite important". This was less than ten years ago so I don't think they've "upgraded" them. Saw a couple of VAXen as well, 4000/90 if I remember correctly. The VAXes I saw were not in critical roles. (I checked, and they've replaced the Norsk Data system: http://www.tvo.fi/uploads/Outage_Excellence.pdf, works from google cache as html) > AFAIK they only provide support for existing systems. No new hardware. > Anyone ever seen Open Genera (Genera for DEC 3000 hardware)? I only know > that it exists. Hey! I've forgotten open genera completely. I'd like to try it out someday now that I have some DEC 3000 hw. Unless someone wants to offer me a cheap Symbolics workstation :-) -- jht From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Feb 5 04:37:20 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: 386 References: <3E401A4C.000003.01840@graham> Message-ID: <024d01c2cd02$259a40d0$0101a8c0@athlon> Check this out- there's lots of other PC/104 stuff (and similar) out there. Should get two of 'em in the space you have! http://pc104.winsystems.com/products/pc104/pcmsx_list.html Dave B Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "bluegenie" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 8:53 AM Subject: 386 > I am after some baby at 286/386/486 motherboards of size aprox 8 3/4 inches > x 6 3/4 inches > > Can you help > > Graham Challis > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of IMSTP.gif] > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type Image/jpeg which had a name of 2.jpg] From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Feb 5 05:02:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Compact Flash (CF) cards References: <3.0.32.20030204152737.00a547d0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <025201c2cd05$a1a8a5b0$0101a8c0@athlon> Works OK for me in a Toshiba 470CDT running W98. Check (and format) the CF cards in something else to make sure they're OK. Sounds like the card is 'invisible'. I can't recall exactly what happened when I first plugged the card plus adapter in (over 2 years ago now) but fairly sure W98 just recognised the CF card, got it's act together and another drive appeared. First time round there may have been a reboot required but not since. But the CF card had been prior-formatted in the digital camera. Dave B Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "gil smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 11:27 AM Subject: OT: Compact Flash (CF) cards > Hi folks: > > This is off-topic, (and if you are in the sbc6120 group you have already > seen it): > > I got a couple of Compact Flash (CF) cards to play with, and I also got a > CF-PCMCIA adapter to try the cards in my laptop. Unfortunately, I cannot > get Win-frickin-98 to see the card. > > I have a similar Smartmedia-PCMCIA adapter for camera cards, and it seems > to work fine in the same machine (ibm thinkpad 600e). > > In both cases, I inserted the card/adapter, WinBlows sees it and starts the > device wizard to install a "Standard IDE/ESDI Hard Disk Controller." For > the Smartmedia card/adapter, the card automatically appears as a drive in > Explorer, and all is well. For the CF card/adapter, it asked me to reboot, > and even then does not see the card. The Device Manager Status for the > controller says "device not present, not working properly, or does not have > all drivers installed (code 10)." There are no resource conflicts to > correct. However, the controller driver is seen by the PCMCIA utility that > allows me to stop the card for removal. > > I've searched at ibm and microsoft, and various google finds, but cannot > make sense of this, and have already spent way too much time on it. Has > anyone had problems or success reading CF cards in Win98 with a PCMCIA > adapter? Is a usb adapter a better choice? Upgrading the o/s is not an > option, since I never intend to give microsoft another penny. > > thanks in advance, > > gil > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 > ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) > ;----------------------------------------------------------- From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Feb 5 06:56:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Overlays, GKS... (Was: Re: New to list) References: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E32B318.907FCC4C@Vishay.com> <3E341CB4.363B3474@compsys.to> <3E357AC4.8020509@Vishay.com> <3E35AA23.8DE1E590@compsys.to> <3E366764.7000503@Vishay.com> <3E38250D.7F07065A@compsys.to> <3E3927F1.7030704@Vishay.com> <3E3986D3.BB45768F@compsys.to> <200302031402.JAA113453177@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3E410931.30802@Vishay.com> Seems it wasn't all that long ago: Megan wrote: >>Then what was the serial port called? - XL perhaps? - See how long ago >>this was? > > > It was called XL... the PRO300 series version of the same driver > (a conditional assembly) was called XC. It was a Professional 350, IIRC, and then it must really have been SET XC [NO]PASS. However, I spent only about one week with this project, including gathering information, considering alternative solutions, then learning about how SET and the handler work together, and finally coding the solution and testing it. My "experience" with system programming on RT-11 is nothing, compared to your qualification: > I was responsible for development of XL/XC/VTCOM/TRANSF package > after taking it over from the original developer. Thanks for refreshing my fading memory! -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Feb 5 07:42:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <017f01c2cb0e$f8acf3a0$0101c80a@p2350> from "Tomer Gabel" at Feb 3, 03 01:01:07 am Message-ID: <200302051338.IAA03669@wordstock.com> And thusly Tomer Gabel spake: > > MobyGames is not an abandonware website -- it's a repository of information > of all sorts on all games. An ambitious project, but I've been with it since > it started and it's coming off amazingly well. > I noticed it has DOS games from 1981... Why do you have Amiga games but no Commodore games? Cheers, Bryan From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Feb 5 09:40:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:33 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, Message-ID: New York Times June 11, 2001 Court Restricts Heat-Sensor Searches By David Stout WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court today reiterated the right of privacy in the age of technology, ruling in an Oregon drug case that the police cannot use a heat-seeking device to probe the interior of a home without a search warrant. -----Original Message----- From: vance@neurotica.com [mailto:vance@neurotica.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 8:10 PM To: Zane H. Healy Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > What I've been wondering about is, how long before we start setting off > alarms in some Government agency due to our abnormally high use of > electricity? Or due to the abnormally high level of heat in area's of > our home? Back when I used an ES/9000 in my parents house, I managed to attract the attention of the law. There were two DEA agents from the local office with one of the local sheriff's deputys with him. They showed up and asked me if I was growing marijuana. I said something to the effect of, "What gave you that idea?" They showed me a report from the power company. I laughed and told them to come look for themselves. They were quite unprepared for the size of my computer, I can tell you that. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 5 09:41:21 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, In-Reply-To: References: <200302042119.h14LJQj02645@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <32869.64.169.63.74.1044459478.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > They showed up and asked me if I was growing marijuana. I said something > to the effect of, "What gave you that idea?" They showed me a report from > the power company. I laughed and told them to come look for themselves. If they come around here, I'll laugh and tell them to get a search warrant. From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Feb 5 09:42:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Overlays, GKS... (Was: Re: New to list) References: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E32B318.907FCC4C@Vishay.com> <3E341CB4.363B3474@compsys.to> <3E357AC4.8020509@Vishay.com> <3E35AA23.8DE1E590@compsys.to> <3E366764.7000503@Vishay.com> <3E38250D.7F07065A@compsys.to> <3E3927F1.7030704@Vishay.com> <3E3986D3.BB45768F@compsys.to> <200302031402.JAA113453177@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <200302051539.KAA109850641@shell.TheWorld.com> >It was a Professional 350, IIRC, and then it must really have been SET >XC [NO]PASS. But the XC.MAC is simply a prefix file, the actual code would have gone into XL, so you are correct... >> I was responsible for development of XL/XC/VTCOM/TRANSF package >> after taking it over from the original developer. > >Thanks for refreshing my fading memory! Actually, the original names for the parts of the package (before I renamed them using DEC-standard naming conventions) were MD (driver) VTERM (the RT-end communications program) TRANSF (same name, but originally written in BASIC+ for RSTS since that was the system we used) Megan From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 5 09:44:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 In-Reply-To: <008501c2ccd2$72eedb50$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3812885468.20030204222651@subatomix.com> <008501c2ccd2$72eedb50$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <32871.64.169.63.74.1044459691.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jay wrote: > hell no! get a price from keyways.com to repair it, and send the bill to > the carrier. If it was insured, the most they will pay is the declared value. Otherwise, the best you can get is a refund of the shipping cost. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Feb 5 09:56:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <08ac01c2cce2$6c496620$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <3E41341C.2596E2B0@comcast.net> I vote no to having the tag in the Subject: line. I have Netscape here on my Sun set to filter by the address in the To: or CC: field. Works perfectly. And sorting by subject doesn't get goofy. I can understand the idea of putting the [cctalk] tag at the end of the Subject: line. That way, you can filter by it, if you must, and the subject line stays intact for everybody else. But I still say don't bother fixing what ain't broke... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From alanp at snowmoose.com Wed Feb 5 10:05:00 2003 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies Message-ID: <20030205160203.526A042C7D@smtp-relay.omnis.com> >>But DEC as a company is long gone. I am *well* aware of what happened >>with the DEC -> Compaq -> HP thing. > >I don't know. A friend of mine still has his DEC e-mail address. > >That doesn't mean anything... up until I was layed off from HP, my >DEC email address (@zk3.dec.com) still worked, though that domain >is scheduled to go away at some point. They've been working site >by site to remove the old dec stuff and replace it with @hp.com. That's true. However, as long as a computer company's domain exists, as long as it has a presence on the net, the company still exists in some little way. alan From at258 at osfn.org Wed Feb 5 10:07:31 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Selectric Typewriter conversions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There was a lot of major work on the Underground, ca 1923-1926. It might well date from that period. On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > I've seen a 3-bit-binary to one-of-eight decoder built out of > > huge brass and bakelite relays. It's in the London Transport Museum, > > and was used to drive the train indicators on the platforms of > > There wasa similar thing used to decode the 4-bit code as to what train > was expected next, used in signal boxes, etc on the London Underground. > That was certainly (large) mechanical relays. > > The 4-bit train descriptor codes were stored in an electromechanical FIFO, > consisting of a drum with a number of rows of 4 pegs around it. Each peg > could be in one of 2 states (towards the spindle or shifted away from the > spindle. There was a fixed solenoid mechanism to set the pegs, the whole > drum then moved round one position (equivalent to incremementing the > write pointer in a software FIFO). There was a separately revolving > contact assembly to sense the position of each row of pegs and feed it to > the decoder. This was stepped on as each train came through -- equivalent > to incrememnting the read pointer. > > The whole thing is _exactly_ like the classic software FIFO we've all > implelmented many times. I don't know when it was built, but around 1920? > It's described in detail in an old book I have called 'Modern Electrical > Engineering' which alas has no dates on it. > > -tony > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Feb 5 10:12:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Compact Flash (CF) cards Message-ID: You may have run out of interrupts for the CF card -- it requires two, one for the drive interface and one for the card, IIRC. On a laptop I had at work, I had to disable the modem (which I seldom used) in order to free up a second interrupt so I could read PCMCIA flash RAM cards that I used in my HP 95LX palmtop. -----Original Message----- From: gil smith [mailto:gil@vauxelectronics.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:28 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: OT: Compact Flash (CF) cards I got a couple of Compact Flash (CF) cards to play with, and I also got a CF-PCMCIA adapter to try the cards in my laptop. Unfortunately, I cannot get Win-frickin-98 to see the card. From kth at srv.net Wed Feb 5 10:33:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: DECserver 700-16 firmware etc References: Message-ID: <3E41414B.8050200@srv.net> Witchy wrote: >Hi folks, > >Finally got my VAX sorted and purring nicely, though that RZ28 is >v.troublesome and gets marked read only as soon as I try and do anything >with it. Sort that out later. > You're probably not going to like this, but your drive is probably dying. I've had a few that did this, and the only fix was to replace them. Try to use them, even set read-only, and you will probably see them completely fail in a few weeks. Back up whatever you want to keep from them asap, while they will still read. > >Anyway, I've put the DECserver firmware here: > >ftp://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/pub/DEC/other/decserver/wweng1.sys > >If you're using a non-browser to connect you'll obviously know what to do; I >don't want to be accused of teaching egg-suckage :) It's anon ftp and >therefore read only..... > >More stuff to come, including DNAS 2.2 once I find the bloody thing. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Feb 5 10:48:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: HP 2000 system requirements (was Re: Request for Armed Guard highway escort (HP2100)) In-Reply-To: <4126.4.20.168.144.1044394837.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <00e501c2cc94$0ba9d1e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4126.4.20.168.144.1044394837.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20030205084219.M51547@agora.rdrop.com> On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > > Next to > > 2000/Access which requires the most elaborate hardware, 2000E is the > > best of the TSB systems I believe, > > I strongly disagree. 2000C, 2000C', and 2000F are *much* better than > 2000E. Oh boy! Another 'religious' war starting up! So... for those of us who would be just as happy to get nearly ANY variant of HP TSB running, (I have a matched set of 2117F machines) on either 1 or 2 CPUs... Anyone have the source media (paper tape would be good) that I can get? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From kth at srv.net Wed Feb 5 10:54:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 References: <20030205041433.WOFC20431.pop016.verizon.net@[192.168.129.98]> Message-ID: <3E41461D.7010503@srv.net> chu@verizon.net wrote: >UPS has already come by and they agreed >to process a claim. My options are to get >my money back and give them the machine >or to get it fixed and they pay for the >repairs or replacement -- up to my costs. >I don't think replacement is very possible. >The UPS guy suggested that I go to circuit city or >Best Buy and buy the replacement parts.... >Uhhhhh..... > >Dave Chu > > > > > From the description of your problem, I'd guess that the hard drive is hosed somehow. Maybe the cabling to it became disconnected when it was bounced around. Does it spin up? From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Feb 5 11:44:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: I saw you post 12-17-02 about Intel 1602 Message-ID: <200302051738.JAA05550@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Alex Welti" > >I have been handed down a room full of electronics - my >brother-in-law's father passed away - and I am the nearest relative who >has a career in electronics, so... I am spending my evenings going >through and identifing parts, most of which I am familiar with and have >datasheets on. However, I can't find anything on these i C8702A. A >web search brought me to your posting. I am hoping you have a datasheet >or know where I should go to find one. > >Thanks, >Alex > Hi Alex 8702A is mostly the same as a 1702A and can be programmed with any programmer that supports 1702A. The only difference is that I know of was that the threshold for data was a slightly different voltage. The 8702A was designed to tie directly to a 8080 or 8085 without additional buffering. Otherwise, the 1702A spec will work. If y9ou want the exact levels, I can look it up. Most current programmers do not support the 1702A's. You'll need to find an old programmer someplace. Dwight From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 5 12:05:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: HP 2000 system requirements (was Re: Request for Armed Guard highway escort (HP2100)) References: <00e501c2cc94$0ba9d1e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4126.4.20.168.144.1044394837.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <20030205084219.M51547@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <001301c2cd40$94876f20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Jim wrote... > Oh boy! Another 'religious' war starting up! Nah, not at all :) Eric makes a good point, the smaller program workspace on E version, and "print using" not being present on E. I don't have his view only because of my experience. I happened to start out on an E series version of TSB. As a result, I was very used to defining COMmon variables and doing CHAINs. So when we upgraded to C, and later Access, all the programs I was used to using still worked fine. Of course, we could have gotten rid of the COMmon and CHAIN stuff and made several programs into one, but, why bother if it works as is. I never had the experience Eric did in getting used to the workspace on C, and then having to split the programs up when moving them to an E, so I can certainly understand his frustration with it. In addition, coming from E, I wasn't one to frequently try to use "PRINT USING", I found other ways to address it because it was the only way to do it on E. Of course, Eric got used to using PRINT USING on all his programs, so again, I can see his frustration in moving programs which made liberal use of that statement back to an E series. He's got perfectly valid points. There's no question that C, C', and F are superior to E. However, my argument was that E is perfectly usable unless you're doing business processing, running large apps, etc. More to the point, I was saying that if a hobbyist wants to get some form of TSB running, E is by FAR the easiest to attempt, because it uses much less hardware that is already somewhat difficult to find. Or to put it very succinctly - for E the requirements are one cpu, one disc drive, paper tape reader, and a 12920 mux set. For C, C', F you need an additional cpu with 32K, and 4 more I/O cards and the rather hard to find processor interconnect cables. I THINK 7970 tape MAY be required for C, C', F, but I am not sure about that, I know it's required for Access. I was just being realistic that... ok, if a hobbyist has trouble finding an HP TSB compatable cpu, they're going to be twice as pressed to find another cpu as well. So, to sum up, Eric is correct. Our only difference is that I consider E to be VERY usable, he doesn't agree because it lacks features that he finds important. I personally feel that if one looks at the specific differences between E and C, C', F, with regards to programming features available, not O/S or admin stuff, the differences aren't very big at all. And the hardware requirements are less. Given unlimited funds and/or easy access to more hardware, sure, go with C, C', F. > So... for those of us who would be just as happy to get nearly ANY > variant of HP TSB running, (I have a matched set of 2117F machines) on > either 1 or 2 CPUs... > > Anyone have the source media (paper tape would be good) that I can get? Yup, I know load media is available around the listmembers for 2000E and 2000Access for sure, and I am guessing that Eric has load media for C, C', or F probably? From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 5 12:13:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: HP2000 Message-ID: <002701c2cd41$dc5dd360$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Since there appears to be interest on the list.... Perhaps Eric and I (and any other interested parties) should get together and create a document like "So, you want to run HP TSB?". We could get definitive answers to exactly what pieces/parts are required, put in some comparisons between the different versions, etc. Kind of a road map to help people get these systems running. Help them decide which version to try for, etc. I know I would have done just about anything for such a document when I got started... and had to learn along the way little things like F series can't run access, IOP firmware is only needed for access, E will only use 7900 or 2883 drives, etc. Stuff like that. WHICH brings me to the next point. HP/TSB had a rather cute RJE facility, where you could create programs for ... ummm what was it... I think a CDC or an IBM RJE device were the two supported.. and submit jobs to them and get the results back, either cards or printouts, etc. There was also some capability in this add-on for HP2000 to HP2000 communication. So if someone else gets an HP2000 system up, it would be rather cool to send jobs back and forth, tunneled across the net someway perhaps. Or, is there an IBM RJE I can dial and submit jobs to from my HP2000? Most kewl :) Jay West From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Feb 5 12:15:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: New Finds This week Message-ID: <016401c2cd42$296892d0$b150ef42@oemcomputer> Yesterday was pretty good and I got the following items: Amiga 200HD cpu only no KB, mouse, or monitor with it. KAYPRO 4 in great physical shape not powered up yet. Tandy 1000 RL Hard Drive cpu only. Data Book Computer model 486-DBA looks like a it was used as a LINUX box. 4- 486 notebooks; 2-Austin's, a Sharp, and a Compaq. No ac adapters with them. Sony Lasermax LDP-1450. AXIS StorPoint CD-rom server. Apple 800k external floppy drive. Bag of TI99/4A game cartridges. Have not looked through them yet. Some IBM PCjr stuff. A Convergent Technologies Motorola Information System 6300 tower (miniframe) with terminal but no KB or special power brick for it. A TAXAN 12" RGB monitor that works with Apple, IBM, or NEC PC8001 computers. Several mice and mousepads for that part of the collection. Found a recycler that is going out of business and he has about 8 HP racks on wheels (all empty) for only $5 each and tons of more stuff. I will be making a second trip today I hope before it's all trashed. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 5 12:35:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <005301c2cc7e$32386ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E416726.32571.546870EC@localhost> > That being said - this has come up for discussion several times in the past, > and pretty much the majority of people said don't put it in so I left it > out. However, if the majority opinion has changed, I'd be happy to add it > back. Tis up to you folks! :) Please no! This is realy a discusion to skip. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 5 12:45:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030205134657.2b5fd754@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:37 AM 2/5/03 -0700, you wrote: >New York Times >June 11, 2001 > >Court Restricts Heat-Sensor Searches >By David Stout > >WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court today reiterated the right of privacy in the >age of technology, ruling in an Oregon drug case that the police cannot use >a heat-seeking device to probe the interior of a home without a search >warrant. They restricted the use of HEAT SENSORS but they did not restrict the police from using estimates of exceesive power usage by the power companies. That's how they "caught" Zane. The thermal imaging sensors would have probably shown that the source was a computer and not growing plants. BTW they also use both technologies for detecking stills built inside of homes. Joe From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 5 12:47:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: References: <014b01c2cc7b$c102b8e0$0100a8c0@primate> Message-ID: <3E4169EE.17809.54734F94@localhost> > > If you want a vote, I'll throw whole-hearted support behind a tag at the > > beginning of the message. > Yes, please... *every* other maillist I subscribe to has [mailistname] > prepended to the "Subject" field...except for Classiccmp, which generates > three times the message traffic the others do combined... > Having the [maillistname] at the *end* of the 'Subject:' text makes no > sense whatsoever, begging the Right Honorable Sellam's pardon on the > matter. As much as I apreciate your knowledge, having this tags is a pain in the ass, err I mean redundant information. All readers I know are able to move mails acording to address fields into folders. Or you just go ahead and sort it by sending address. You don't need any fancy regexp features to do this. So please no redundant information. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Feb 5 12:52:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030205134657.2b5fd754@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Feb 5, 03 01:46:57 pm Message-ID: <200302051847.NAA03177@wordstock.com> And thusly Joe spake: > > plants. BTW they also use both technologies for detecking stills built > inside of homes. How much power / heat does a distiller use / generate?! Cheers, Bryan From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 5 12:54:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Geting totaly OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E416B8C.20546.54799FE9@localhost> > But, what I'm saying is, we did already go over this in the Great > Divergence. MUST we REPEAT this STUPID ARGUING over HOW the LIST is > PRESENTED TIME and TIME and F0!KING TIME aGAIN? Oooh... Mr EE-z-MAA-EE-L speaks l33t! > I mean SHIT! I have never met a more whiny-assed group of nerds in my > life! I suggest visiting the VCF. It's organized by the Uber-Nerd. > If the whining on this list over all the stupid little shit that > gets whined about could be converted into energy, we'd be able to power > Asia. Yeah, right, make a big ass coment and then use the continent with the lowest per person energy usage. > Just accept it already and SHUT UP! Nop, only if we realy procede thru the anal retarded phase. :) H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 5 13:00:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: [cc] Re: [cc] RE: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3E416CE0.17313.547ECE44@localhost> > > But another problem with prepending something to the subject > > line could be the recursing going on... good point > Most mailing list software knows how to do that. Sounds to me like the 'most clients can filter' argument... Either way, no need for a tag. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From cb at mythtech.net Wed Feb 5 13:01:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, Message-ID: > They restricted the use of HEAT SENSORS but they did not restrict the >police from using estimates of exceesive power usage by the power >companies. That's how they "caught" Zane. The thermal imaging sensors >would have probably shown that the source was a computer and not growing >plants. BTW they also use both technologies for detecking stills built >inside of homes. Does this open up the market to sell used big iron to drug dealers? This way they can justify their extra power usage and heat output. "No officer, I don't grow pot... its just my refridgerator sized computer, pay no attention to the plants behind the curtain" -chris From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Feb 5 13:23:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <03cd01c2cd4b$9bad1c90$020010ac@k4jcw> I use my 14" 6 platter 300MB DASD as a centrifuge for uranium enrichment. --John From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Feb 5 13:30:01 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: HP2000 Message-ID: That would be very cool and appreciated if someone put the time into creating such a doc. I have a 2117F and a 2113E that aren't doing much now that I would like to get doing something more interesting at some point. Last fall I saw some scrap HP 1000 systems which I believe had the parts to connect them in a two CPU pair. If I knew more about how to make use of such a configuration I would consider trying to acquire that hardware. >From: "Jay West" > >Perhaps Eric and I (and any other interested parties) should get together >and create a document like "So, you want to run HP TSB?". We could get >definitive answers to exactly what pieces/parts are required, put in some >comparisons between the different versions, etc. Kind of a road map to help >people get these systems running. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Feb 5 13:31:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030205134657.2b5fd754@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030205134657.2b5fd754@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030205195530.GG11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Joe, from writings of Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:46:57PM +0000: >imaging sensors would have probably shown that the source was a >computer and not growing plants. BTW they also use both technologies >for detecking stills built inside of homes. They're still chasing after people for having their own stills? It sounds like they've got too much time and money to waste. Time for a big, big, big budget cut. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 5 13:31:07 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: References: <030202135137.23003685@manson.vistech.net> Message-ID: <3E41744D.9871.549BD1A2@localhost> > > 7 people died. 7 people die all the time. These 7 happened to be astronauts. > > Big deal. > Troll. I tried to stay off the Columbia thread, but the Troll argument doesn't realy fit. The very same day 40 people died in a train crash in Simbabwe and 42 as a house exploded in Lagos (Nigeria, Africa). So are they not woth beeing mentioned, just because they didn't die in a multi billion dollar environment ? Sorry, I don't want to degrade any of the Columbia passengers, but our news business got a huge problem. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 5 13:37:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: ZIP Chip (Was: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips?) In-Reply-To: <20030204224116.58519.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3E4175A1.27600.54A102EB@localhost> Well, listening to all this ZIF informations, I have a total unrelated question: does anyone of you remember the ZIP Chip, an upgrade CPU for the Apple II. It's been a 4+ MHz 6502 with some cache. Or what about the Rocket Chip, the competition? Does anyone still own one, or is even willing to part ? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 5 13:38:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: HP2000 References: Message-ID: <00af01c2cd4d$9ece6ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Just going from memory here, so take this with a grain of salt till I can get home and check it... The "processor interconnect kit" was four 12566 (GRD TRU +/-) cards, two in each cpu, and two special cables to go between them. If you can find the right edge card connectors (or scavenge the connectors from other less important HP cables), the special cables can be fabricated. You wouldn't be able to run 2000/Access, as that requires the IOP firmware, which to my knowledge was only officially produced for the 2100 cpu and the 21mx M SERIES ONLY. There is talk among some here about trying to port the microcode for the IOP firmware to make it run on the E or F 21MX's. Then you could run Access on the cpu's you have... oh.. and, don't forget.. there is one hard to find thing needed for every single version of TSB ever produced... the 3 card set called a 12920/12921 mux. It's what all the user terminals were connected to. THAT seems to be the real devil to find. I do have a working set, perhaps copies could be fabricated from scratch? Way beyond my expertise. Or, if the source for Access or E or C, C', F is around perhaps the code could be modified to work with other mux's that HP made. Jay West From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Feb 5 13:40:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: <200302051847.NAA03177@wordstock.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030205134657.2b5fd754@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200302051847.NAA03177@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20030205200411.GH11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Bryan Pope, from writings of Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:47:55PM -0500: > How much power / heat does a distiller use / generate?! There's an possible easy way around that for electric stills... just get a diesel generator (will they run on heating oil from one's oil tank?), plant it underground, cool it with water, and pipe the exhaust, through several good mufflers and home-made baffles, and radiator heat, to one's chimney via insulated ductwork. Of course, a better solution is just to use a wood fired still that fits in a fireplace, then no electricity is used. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Feb 5 13:45:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <3E41744D.9871.549BD1A2@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 5, 03 08:30:05 pm Message-ID: <200302051940.OAA16316@wordstock.com> And thusly Hans Franke spake: > > I tried to stay off the Columbia thread, but the Troll > argument doesn't realy fit. The very same day 40 people > died in a train crash in Simbabwe and 42 as a house > exploded in Lagos (Nigeria, Africa). So are they not > woth beeing mentioned, just because they didn't die > in a multi billion dollar environment ? > > Sorry, I don't want to degrade any of the Columbia > passengers, but our news business got a huge problem. I believe this is like comparing the assasination of JFK to somebody on the street getting shot. Cheers, Bryan From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Feb 5 13:48:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030205201205.GI11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe chris, from writings of Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:58:58PM -0500: > Does this open up the market to sell used big iron to drug dealers? This > way they can justify their extra power usage and heat output. > > "No officer, I don't grow pot... its just my refridgerator sized > computer, pay no attention to the plants behind the curtain" There's no law against having, and using, lots of grow lamps... it's perfectly legal to grow plants for one's garden, or to grow house plants, medicinal herbs, etc. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 5 13:53:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: A590 (was Re: Any Amiga users on this list?) In-Reply-To: <014f01c2cb0e$4958c410$0101c80a@p2350> Message-ID: <20030205195046.88289.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tomer Gabel wrote: > The A590 IS a SCSI interface... SCSI-2 FAST if I remember correctly. Also > has an external SCSI connector. It has an XT-IDE interface (40-pin) inside _and_ a SCSI interface (50- pin). The external connector is a DB-25 wired for SCSI like a MacPlus. The SCSI chip inside is a Western Digital WD33C93. Given the external connector, I don't _think_ that it's SCSI-2 Fast, but it's been a long time since I've had to configure an Amiga SCSI chain. Anyway... the critical info is a) SCSI & XT-IDE, b) SCSI external via DB-25, c) WD33C93 chip to drive it all, and d) vertical clearance for a 1.6"-tall 3.5" drive. Given all of that, you should be able to determine compatibility with what you want to hookup. -ethan From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 5 13:54:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: HP2000 In-Reply-To: <00af01c2cd4d$9ece6ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00af01c2cd4d$9ece6ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1252.4.20.168.139.1044474703.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jay wrote: > You wouldn't be able to run 2000/Access, as that requires the IOP > firmware, which to my knowledge was only officially produced for the > 2100 cpu and the 21mx M SERIES ONLY. I thought so too, until I found a table in a CE handbook that lists the part numbers for the 2000/Access IOP firmware options for the 2100, M-series, and E-series. Many people seem to have incomplete F-series machines, which do not actually have the floating point unit. I believe that it would be necessary to downgrade those to an E-series in order to use them; the necessary change would simply be to install the E-series microcode, as the CPU board is otherwise identical to a late-model E-series board. Then the E-series IOP microcode could be used, if we had it. > there is one hard to find thing needed for every > single version of TSB ever produced... the 3 card set called a > 12920/12921 mux. It's what all the user terminals were connected to. > THAT seems to be the real devil to find. I think that's the "smart" mux. The earlier versions of TSB (A, B, and C) needed a different, "dumb" mux, which counted on the CPU to bit-bang each character, thus were limited to 300 bps max (at least for TSB). The "smart" mux is used on 2000 C' (AKA High-Speed 2000C), E, F, and Access. I don't have the relevant part number information handy. > Or, if the source for Access or E or C, C', F is around > perhaps the code could be modified to work with other mux's that HP > made. Scanned printed listings of the source for C' and E are on my web site. The only machine-readable source code I've got is for 2000 Access. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 5 14:03:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: HP2000 References: Message-ID: <00c901c2cd51$1a54b800$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Well, I guess as a followup... if people are interested in running TSB.... here's a "watch list" of things to always grab if you ever see them: 13207 - this is a firmware board, mounts under the cpu in 21mx M (ONLY M, NOT E/F) series for the IOP. You only need this if you're trying to run Access, other flavors don't need it. If you have a E or F, you can run other flavors, but not access. However, keep in mind the only difference between an M and an E or F is the main cpu board. Find someone with an M that doesn't want it - or - I have had luck telling a couple commercial used HP dealers "I'll send you a perfectly working F series cpu board if you send me a perfectly working M series cpu board". Shipping for just the cpu board is dirt cheap, and they get a free upgrade to a more often sought after system commercially, and you get something compatable with the IOP firmware. Or, wait for somebody on the list to try and port the M series microcode to the E/F cpu's. 7900A - disc drive, works with pretty much all flavors of TSB. HP-IB drives don't work (maybe not, long story). For TSB, you are limited to 7900, 7905, and 7920 drives. Unsubstantiated rumor has it that 7906's will work, you just cant use all the space. Different versions of TSB had different drives which would work. 7900A is a safe bet with all versions. For 7900 drives you need a 13210 controller card and a 12315? power supply, for the 7905 and 7920 drives you need a 13037 controller card, and a 13037 disc controller subsystem (rackmount box). 12566 - GRD TRU +/- boards necessary for the interconnect kit, 4 total needed, if you want to run Access or C, C', or F. Not needed for E. 12920/12921 MUX controller - this is a 3 card set. It is a 16 port rs232 mux. This is required for every flavor of TSB, it's a must-have. Hard to find - at least to me. There were many other rs232 mux's made by HP, but the 12920/21 is the only one that works with TSB. Grab any of these you ever find. Then, if you're using 2100's instead of 21MX's... memory memory memory. Any memory boards are always needed. Access requires 32k in the main cpu, and anywhere from 16k to 32k in the IOP cpu depending on the software options configured. Core has never been easy for me to find either - especially the memory boards other than core - XYD boards, DC boards, etc. Please note! The above discussion totally ignores the A and B versions of TSB, which I suspect will be pretty difficult to run, I seem to recall they require magnetic drum, or they used fixed head discs, or some other "impossible" and "unlikely" to ever find cards. Plus, the A and B were very very very feature lacking anyways. There are other parts required to get a system running, like a 2748 paper tape reader (for 2100 cpu based systems only), but I'm just listing the above as a "watch list" for the really hard to find items. I'm at work, so don't have my docs handly, so anyone feel free to correct me on things above I said incorrectly! Jay West From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 5 14:08:40 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable Message-ID: I have a MicroVAX 3800 in really good shape that I would like to be able to use, but I have a problem. The power connector looks like a standard grounded power cable connector, but has been made in such a way that the power cable must have a notch on the top in order to plug in. Is there any reason for this? Does that mean that I need a special cable or can I just take a hacksaw to a regular power cable? -- Owen Robertson From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Feb 5 14:10:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3E41193C.23200.129964E1@localhost> I use Pegasus on a windoze box and simply filter classiccmp mail into a folder. I don't know how this affects email on other systems but surely it is possible to filter based on the to or reply lines. It seems to add another not really needed element to the whole process and even as it is now, long subject lines are often unreadable. If it does impact some system's functioning I would grudgingly put up with it. I find new improvements almost always cause new problems. Lawrence On 4 Feb 2003, , Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > All, > > Although this has come up a few times already, I am going to > bring it up again. Come kick my butt if you don't like it > :) > > Given the volume of the list, and the many off-topic (lets > not discuss what is and is not on-topic here) talk, I would > like to propose [again] that we do like other lists do: > insert a tag [cctalk] in the Subject: line of the postings, > so it's easy to distinguis the postings from other, perhaps > more pressing e-mail. > > Selecting/filtering based on sender address doesn't work > well for all clients, and depends on the ability to use > processing rules in the first place. > > As said, most lists out there already use this technique, > it's been accepted more or less as a standard, so can we > *please* use something like this ? > > I don't want to start Yet Another Discussion, a mere vote > would do, as we're all techies who know what this is about. > > Cheers, > Fred lgwalker@ mts.net From tponsford at theriver.com Wed Feb 5 14:14:00 2003 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info References: <200302032003.h13K3lg22030@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <3E4143BC.8090801@theriver.com> Hi All Well I picked up a couple of Aviions about 2 months ago for about $2.50 at our local University auction. I got 2 AV530's (dual procs) and 2 300CD's none of them have any disks, so I'm looking for some install media. I'll gladly donate one of the 300CD's either whole,board or chip to the cause, if you need it cheers, Tom r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Steve Jones wrote: > > >>'r. bear stricklin' was collecting NVRAM dumps for analysis, so >>we can try to load usable data into replacement parts, but I've >>no idea where that stands. I haven't bothered getting a part to >>see if, like Suns, the machine will function at all with an >>uninitialized NVRAM. Anyway if you search the archive for his >>name or Aviion I'm sure you'll find the relevant post. Or head >>to this URL: http://www.bears.org/~red/museum/aviion-nvram.html > > > It's true, I am. > > The project is languishing at the moment for lack of some 'breakthrough' > data. I have what I was able to restore my AV310CD to, and several > different samples from AV530 systems. I'm hoping somebody will donate > NVRAM dumps from some other models. > > I have only two AViiONs at the moment, and the only one that is known good > is too new to support the 'examine memory' command at the console monitor. > My AV310 came to me with a dead NVRAM, and is mostly running now with a > new 48T02, that I reprogrammed with as much information as I knew about. > THere are still a few glitches I believe are related to missing > information in the NVRAM; the biggest one is related to the graphics > configuration and is preventing X from starting. > > The good news is a lot of the most important stuff in the NVRAM is > easily recoverable, and that unlike Suns, the ethernet MAC address is > stored in non-volatile storage. I should write a recovery procedure with > as much information as I know now. I was hoping to do it when the whole > mystery had been unravelled, but in the meanwhile folks should be able to > get their systems recovered enough to at least boot the OS. > > I'm always happy to answer questions relating to resurrecting old m88k > AViiONs. > > ok > r. From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Feb 5 14:15:41 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested Message-ID: First, the question. Look for "SELLING" below for what I have 'for sale'. I've managed to pick up a TECMAR, Inc. "LAB TENDER COMP" card for the IBM PC (8bit ISA interface) but I don't have any docs on it. There's a total of 5 34pin headers on the card, a bunch of 7400 seris logic, an AM9513, AM8255A-5, 5xTL084CJ, 4xHEF4051BP chips, and 3x8switch dip-switches. Does anyone know what this is and/or have software/docs for it? SELLING + Digital SC008-AB, one with an "A" and one with a "B" on it, has many (maybe 20) TNC Jacks monted on it, some with 'terminators' on it. Does anyone know what this is? I'm intrigued by it. $5 each + shipping + Digital M8210 - 32kW (72bit words) MOS memory for a VAX-11/780. It's still sealed in an anti-static bag, so I assume it's in excellent condition. $5 + shipping + NCD 19c Xterminal, no cables. Uses a sync-on-green monitor, does color, has AUI/10Base2 network connectors, uses standard PS/2 style keyboard and a 9pin serial (pc-like) mouse. ** Based off of Motorola 88100 processor ** $10 + shipping + 4 x Sun SparcStation 5, 64MB RAM, CG6 framebuffer, 2GB Seagate ST32550WC hard drive. These are working, but don't have an OS installed for licensing reasons. I can install Debian Linux (base install) on them if interested (for free!). $15 each + shipping, also have some parts (lots of CG6's), email if interested. + 6 x Sun SparcStation 5 power supplies (PN 300-1215-02): ratings are +5V @ 25A, +12V @ 2.3A(Max 4A), -12V @ 0.25A max continuous 150.2W, max output <15sec 174.2W $5 each + shipping + Not really classic, but I've got a lot of RJ45->DE9-F cisco console cables, and 48VDC, 0.3A table-top 'wall wart' power supplies. I figured that they might be of some use to list readers, and wanted to do this before they go onto eBay. $5 for one + shipping, or make me an offer for >1. + VME Boards - have socketed chips that are re-usable: PE/IO: 1 x MC68881RC15A - math coprocessor 1 x MC68901P 2 x MC68230P10 - 68k 'parallel port' chip 1 x PAL16R4CN -\ 1 x PAL14L4NC --+- does anyone know if they're erasable? 1 x PAL16R6NC -/ 2 x D8293 --\ 1 x P8291A ---+-- Intel GPIB chips parallel ports: 2 x MC68230P10 n x 74LS00 series logic IC's net interface: 2 x MC68230P10 n x 74LS00 series logic IC's DMA interface: n x 74LS00 series logic IC's 68010 board: 1 x MC68010L10 4 x KM6264L-15 8k x 8 150ns SRAM 4 x M5L2764 8k x 8 EPROM 1 x 5.0688MHz oscillator 68000 board: mostly same as the 68010 board, except with MC68000P8 instead I also have a couple of prototyping (wire-wrap) VME boards. You can see everything I have at http://purdueriots.com/mvme/ including (fuzzy) pictures of the boards. I'd like to get $5 per board + shipping to recuperate my costs. I can do cheaper for large quantites. ** The CPU boards have custom-developed console 'debuggers' that use the RS-232 port on the CPU card as a console. They *require* that a PE/IO board be connected to the VME bus in order to 'initialize'. You could, of course get around this by replacing the ROMs. If (when) I get multiple offers, I'll try to choose fairly who gets the stuff, or divide it up if there's multiple people interested Thanks for listening! Pat Lafayette, IN, USA 47904 -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From tponsford at theriver.com Wed Feb 5 14:15:48 2003 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info References: <200302032003.h13K3lg22030@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <3E4143BC.8090801@theriver.com> Hi All Well I picked up a couple of Aviions about 2 months ago for about $2.50 at our local University auction. I got 2 AV530's (dual procs) and 2 300CD's none of them have any disks, so I'm looking for some install media. I'll gladly donate one of the 300CD's either whole,board or chip to the cause, if you need it cheers, Tom r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Steve Jones wrote: > > >>'r. bear stricklin' was collecting NVRAM dumps for analysis, so >>we can try to load usable data into replacement parts, but I've >>no idea where that stands. I haven't bothered getting a part to >>see if, like Suns, the machine will function at all with an >>uninitialized NVRAM. Anyway if you search the archive for his >>name or Aviion I'm sure you'll find the relevant post. Or head >>to this URL: http://www.bears.org/~red/museum/aviion-nvram.html > > > It's true, I am. > > The project is languishing at the moment for lack of some 'breakthrough' > data. I have what I was able to restore my AV310CD to, and several > different samples from AV530 systems. I'm hoping somebody will donate > NVRAM dumps from some other models. > > I have only two AViiONs at the moment, and the only one that is known good > is too new to support the 'examine memory' command at the console monitor. > My AV310 came to me with a dead NVRAM, and is mostly running now with a > new 48T02, that I reprogrammed with as much information as I knew about. > THere are still a few glitches I believe are related to missing > information in the NVRAM; the biggest one is related to the graphics > configuration and is preventing X from starting. > > The good news is a lot of the most important stuff in the NVRAM is > easily recoverable, and that unlike Suns, the ethernet MAC address is > stored in non-volatile storage. I should write a recovery procedure with > as much information as I know now. I was hoping to do it when the whole > mystery had been unravelled, but in the meanwhile folks should be able to > get their systems recovered enough to at least boot the OS. > > I'm always happy to answer questions relating to resurrecting old m88k > AViiONs. > > ok > r. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 5 14:17:22 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: HP2000 References: <00af01c2cd4d$9ece6ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1252.4.20.168.139.1044474703.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <010501c2cd52$b1da95e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > I thought so too, until I found a table in a CE handbook that lists > the part numbers for the 2000/Access IOP firmware options for the > 2100, M-series, and E-series. VERY kewl! But... please clarify... are you saying it lists one firmware part for the M, and one for the E, or one part number for firmware that works in either? I wouldn't think it would work in the F, as the microcode architecture appears very different in the F. However, many microcode instructions are the same between the two, but as to the differences, some microorders are new in the F, some microorders that are common just have different binary representations. So.. if the particular firmware for the M only uses instructions with happen to exist in both and are encoded the same in both, we could be very lucky and left with just putting the board in an F, or just moving the bits to a different chip for the F. Hummm please enlighten me on this! > Many people seem to have incomplete F-series machines, which do not > actually have the floating point unit. I believe that it would be > necessary to downgrade those to an E-series in order to use them; > the necessary change would simply be to install the E-series microcode, > as the CPU board is otherwise identical to a late-model E-series board. > Then the E-series IOP microcode could be used, if we had it. IF we had it *sigh*. Can you post that E series IOP firmware part number, so I can start searching?? > I think that's the "smart" mux. The earlier versions of TSB (A, B, > and C) needed a different, "dumb" mux, which counted on the CPU to > bit-bang each character, thus were limited to 300 bps max (at least for > TSB). The "smart" mux is used on 2000 C' (AKA High-Speed 2000C), E, F, > and Access. I don't have the relevant part number information handy. I knew about the A & B using the old mux (which appears to have disappeared from the face of the earth), but I thought C used the newer "smart" mux. Good to Know. > Scanned printed listings of the source for C' and E are on my web site. > The only machine-readable source code I've got is for 2000 Access. Which brings us back to needing the IOP firmware, in order to tweak the code to support other more common drives. *sigh* Jay West From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Feb 5 14:18:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA20@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Owen, > I have a MicroVAX 3800 in really good shape that I would like > to be able to use, but I have a problem. The power connector > looks like a standard grounded power cable connector, but has > been made in such a way that the power cable must have a notch > on the top in order to plug in. Yes, and likewise for all BA440-based VAX 4000 systems. Just grab a kitchen knife (warn the wife first.. she might get scared) and cut a notch. Works for me and the 3400 :) Cheers, Fred From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 5 14:18:08 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1305.4.20.168.139.1044476112.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I have a MicroVAX 3800 in really good shape that I would like to be able > to use, but I have a problem. The power connector looks like a standard > grounded power cable connector, but has been made in such a way that the > power cable must have a notch on the top in order to plug in. Is there > any reason for this? Sounds like an IEC-320 C16 inlet, which AFAIK is just a high-temperature (120C) version ofthe more common C14 (65C). I don't have a copy of the IEC-320 standard handy, but if you do a Google search for "IEC 320" you can probably find some reference charts online. From allain at panix.com Wed Feb 5 14:18:16 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, References: <03cd01c2cd4b$9bad1c90$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <03cb01c2cd53$514744c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I use my 14" 6 platter 300MB DASD as a centrifuge for > uranium enrichment. I'm cleaning up my garage right now for discard. Part of the lot is some hollow uncapped drums from copying machines. IE High surface tolerance aluminum tubes. Heard of them recently? John A. From dittman at dittman.net Wed Feb 5 14:24:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Feb 05, 2003 03:15:28 PM Message-ID: <200302052020.h15KKnPZ024878@narnia.int.dittman.net> > + Digital SC008-AB, one with an "A" and one with a "B" on it, has many > (maybe 20) TNC Jacks monted on it, some with 'terminators' on it. Does > anyone know what this is? I'm intrigued by it. > $5 each + shipping StarCoupler, for CI. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 5 14:35:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: <20030205200411.GH11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > How much power / heat does a distiller use / generate?! How much shine could you make from a still heated by a Pentium? From allain at panix.com Wed Feb 5 14:36:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable References: Message-ID: <040b01c2cd55$d228d200$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I have a MicroVAX 3800 in really good shape Good for you. > ...the power cable must have a notch on the top in > order to plug in.Is there any reason for this? 20A rated. Most of us have found that mvIII's do 10A or less. > can I just take a hacksaw to a regular power cable? Many have done so. A simple test is to check the surface temp of the connector after some use and see if you notice heat. If so, bad. Same goes for the length of the cable. Be sure your House wiring is guarded properly against misuse, that is, fuses or breakers working properly, in case it does go up to 20A. What's needed for this list is the URL of someone selling these cords. Noone has found one yet. -- Owen Robertson From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 5 14:39:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? In-Reply-To: <3E3B507B.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20030205203505.35439.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- ben franchuk wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > My expertise is more in microprocessors; I was contemplating > > throwing an MC68000 on the other end of the bus since I have extensive > > stocks (dozens of tubes), a large assortment of hardware debugging > > tools (code trace analyzers, a Flike 9010A, etc.) and lots of expertise > > So what is wrong with a 8 bit cpu since a 68000 is overkill. Nothing, but as I said, I have the skills and the tools. OTOH, hooking a 16-bit data bus to a 12-bit bus is a little easier than hooking an 8-bit bus to a 12-bit bus (having worked on a VAXBI product with a 68010 - that was a nightmare - 16 bits to 32 bits... can rant about that one for a while if you have the time ;-) > BGmicro has surplus 512k x 8 flash $1.00 each if need cheap > memory but they have real HD's for $21.50 each. Now my question > is" are you designing a new interface or emulating a old one". > Ben. Perhaps a little bit of both. If I were going to emulate a DF-32, that could be done in battery-backed SRAM - 32K words per unit, 4 units per CPU. Trivial. The original logic was implemented in R-series logic. It wouldn't be hard to do it all in TTL, just a bunch of work. The actual storage technology isn't the issue; the presentation to the PDP-8 is. The advantage of emulating old hardware is compatibility with existing drivers. The advantage of creating new hardware is freedom from ancient and typically arbitrary constraints. The disadvantage is a) writing the drivers (a one-time problem) and b) getting the new drivers onto an old system (a one-time-per-CPU problem). The SBC-6120 solves these problems by a) having had OS/8 drivers already written and b) having enough smarts in the monitor to stuff a disk image down the console serial line. Doing this for a real PDP-8/i would not be as painless. Having a "real" processor on the peripheral card might help mitigate these problems (i.e., partition, format and populate the "disk" via the embedded CPU, then all you need is a bootstrap from the -8/i side and off you go). That's another issue... the -8/i has no ROM. Some of the older devices had extremely short bootstraps (the RK8E is the shortest I know of - one or two words). I would hate to have to toggle in a 100-instruction boot everytime I corrupted memory. That points to emulation of existing devices being a good thing. > Personaly I have hard time dealing with a CPU on a i/o card > that is more powerfull than the PDP. Why? We used to sell them all the time. When COMBOARDs sold in bunches like grapes (c. 1982-1984), they frequently went into PDP-11s running RSTS because we could hang a line printer (LA-180 or larger) directly off our card and have print jobs coming back from the IBM come in the serial port and out the parallel port, never pestering the RSTS print queues. Folks *loved* that. The CPU on the COMBOARD is an 8MHz 68000 - _roughly_ equivalent to the CPU in the VAX-11/750 (~.6 VUPs) and quite a bit faster than most PDP-11s of its day (not sure about the 11/70) There is a period SCSI card for OMNIBUS PDP-8s - it has a 6809 processor on it to relieve the PDP-8 of the nitty-gritty details of how SCSI works. Same idea, slightly newer peripheral hardware. -ethan From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Feb 5 14:41:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Feb 5, 03 12:32:16 pm Message-ID: <200302052036.PAA29528@wordstock.com> And thusly Fred Cisin spake: > > > How much power / heat does a distiller use / generate?! > > How much shine could you make from a still heated by a Pentium? > Oooooh! ooooooh! How bout an ethanol cooling system for a P4?!! The next 'leet mod! Cheers!, Bryan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 5 14:43:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:34 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030205204109.29292.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Finnegan wrote: > 1 x PAL16R4CN -\ > 1 x PAL14L4NC --+- does anyone know if they're erasable? > 1 x PAL16R6NC -/ They are not. Ones marked "PALCE" or "GAL" are. -ethan From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 5 14:45:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Geting totaly OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <3E416B8C.20546.54799FE9@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > But, what I'm saying is, we did already go over this in the Great > > Divergence. MUST we REPEAT this STUPID ARGUING over HOW the LIST is > > PRESENTED TIME and TIME and F0!KING TIME aGAIN? > > Oooh... Mr EE-z-MAA-EE-L speaks l33t! Actually, that was my attempt to render vocal cadences in written form. I am beyond 1337 speak. > > I mean SHIT! I have never met a more whiny-assed group of nerds in my > > life! > > I suggest visiting the VCF. It's organized by the Uber-Nerd. The VCF is tame compared to here. I get one or two complaints at every VCF from one (usually crotchety old) nerd. The whining here is on a level that is beyond belief. > > Just accept it already and SHUT UP! > > Nop, only if we realy procede thru the anal retarded phase. I love you, Hans! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dittman at dittman.net Wed Feb 5 14:46:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: <040b01c2cd55$d228d200$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Feb 05, 2003 03:33:19 PM Message-ID: <200302052043.h15Kh9IB025087@narnia.int.dittman.net> > What's needed for this list is the URL of someone selling these > cords. Noone has found one yet. I remember a couple of times someone has posted places selling these cords. I seem to remember posting the part number I used to order one direct from Compaq ($14, IIRC). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 5 14:46:16 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, In-Reply-To: <03cd01c2cd4b$9bad1c90$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > I use my 14" 6 platter 300MB DASD as a centrifuge for uranium enrichment. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Feb 5 14:49:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: <200302052020.h15KKnPZ024878@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <000301c2cd57$acf484f0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > > + Digital SC008-AB, one with an "A" and one with a "B" on > it, has many > > (maybe 20) TNC Jacks monted on it, some with 'terminators' on it. > > Does anyone know what this is? I'm intrigued by it. > > $5 each + shipping > > StarCoupler, for CI. ... which are like hen's teeth, except much rarer IIRC ! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 5 14:50:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, In-Reply-To: <03cb01c2cd53$514744c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, John Allain wrote: > > I use my 14" 6 platter 300MB DASD as a centrifuge for > > uranium enrichment. > > I'm cleaning up my garage right now for discard. > Part of the lot is some hollow uncapped drums from > copying machines. > IE High surface tolerance aluminum tubes. > Heard of them recently? Are you saying that maybe the Iraqi's were just trying to build copying machines? ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Feb 5 14:52:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: <040b01c2cd55$d228d200$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000401c2cd58$27520ce0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > > can I just take a hacksaw to a regular power cable? > > Many have done so. A simple test is to check the surface temp > of the connector after some use and see if you notice heat. > If so, bad. Same goes for the length of the cable. Be sure > your House wiring is guarded properly against misuse, that > is, fuses or breakers working properly, in case it does go up > to 20A. > > What's needed for this list is the URL of someone selling these > cords. Noone has found one yet. My last but one kettle came with one. In the UK (at least) I assume that they are pretty easy to find. If I'd known that they were worth something I'd have picked up a handful when I had the chance :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Feb 5 14:57:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, Message-ID: <200302052054.MAA05616@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Bryan Pope" > >And thusly Joe spake: >> >> plants. BTW they also use both technologies for detecking stills built >> inside of homes. > >How much power / heat does a distiller use / generate?! > >Cheers, > >Bryan > Hi Most are not very efficient and generate quite a bit of heat. Remember, they are interested in ones that generates commecial quantities on Moon shine and not some chemistry experiment. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Feb 5 15:01:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested Message-ID: <200302052058.MAA05621@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Patrick Finnegan" > >First, the question. Look for "SELLING" below for what I have 'for sale'. > > I've managed to pick up a TECMAR, Inc. "LAB TENDER COMP" card for the >IBM PC (8bit ISA interface) but I don't have any docs on it. There's a >total of 5 34pin headers on the card, a bunch of 7400 seris logic, an >AM9513, AM8255A-5, 5xTL084CJ, 4xHEF4051BP chips, and 3x8switch ^^^^^^ Math processor?? Dwight >dip-switches. Does anyone know what this is and/or have software/docs for >it? > >SELLING > >+ Digital SC008-AB, one with an "A" and one with a "B" on it, has many >(maybe 20) TNC Jacks monted on it, some with 'terminators' on it. Does >anyone know what this is? I'm intrigued by it. > $5 each + shipping > >+ Digital M8210 - 32kW (72bit words) MOS memory for a VAX-11/780. It's > still sealed in an anti-static bag, so I assume it's in excellent > condition. > $5 + shipping > >+ NCD 19c Xterminal, no cables. Uses a sync-on-green monitor, does color, > has AUI/10Base2 network connectors, uses standard PS/2 style keyboard > and a 9pin serial (pc-like) mouse. > ** Based off of Motorola 88100 processor ** > $10 + shipping > >+ 4 x Sun SparcStation 5, 64MB RAM, CG6 framebuffer, 2GB Seagate ST32550WC > hard drive. These are working, but don't have an OS installed for > licensing reasons. I can install Debian Linux (base install) on them > if interested (for free!). > $15 each + shipping, > also have some parts (lots of CG6's), email if interested. > >+ 6 x Sun SparcStation 5 power supplies (PN 300-1215-02): > ratings are +5V @ 25A, +12V @ 2.3A(Max 4A), -12V @ 0.25A > max continuous 150.2W, max output <15sec 174.2W > $5 each + shipping > >+ Not really classic, but I've got a lot of RJ45->DE9-F cisco console > cables, and 48VDC, 0.3A table-top 'wall wart' power supplies. I figured > that they might be of some use to list readers, and wanted to do this > before they go onto eBay. > $5 for one + shipping, or make me an offer for >1. > >+ VME Boards - have socketed chips that are re-usable: > > > PE/IO: > 1 x MC68881RC15A - math coprocessor > 1 x MC68901P > 2 x MC68230P10 - 68k 'parallel port' chip > 1 x PAL16R4CN -\ > 1 x PAL14L4NC --+- does anyone know if they're erasable? > 1 x PAL16R6NC -/ > 2 x D8293 --\ > 1 x P8291A ---+-- Intel GPIB chips > > parallel ports: > 2 x MC68230P10 > n x 74LS00 series logic IC's > > net interface: > 2 x MC68230P10 > n x 74LS00 series logic IC's > > DMA interface: > n x 74LS00 series logic IC's > > 68010 board: > 1 x MC68010L10 > 4 x KM6264L-15 8k x 8 150ns SRAM > 4 x M5L2764 8k x 8 EPROM > 1 x 5.0688MHz oscillator > > 68000 board: > mostly same as the 68010 board, except with MC68000P8 instead > > I also have a couple of prototyping (wire-wrap) VME boards. You can >see everything I have at http://purdueriots.com/mvme/ including (fuzzy) >pictures of the boards. I'd like to get $5 per board + shipping to >recuperate my costs. I can do cheaper for large quantites. > > ** The CPU boards have custom-developed console 'debuggers' that use > the RS-232 port on the CPU card as a console. They *require* that > a PE/IO board be connected to the VME bus in order to 'initialize'. > You could, of course get around this by replacing the ROMs. > >If (when) I get multiple offers, I'll try to choose fairly who gets the >stuff, or divide it up if there's multiple people interested > >Thanks for listening! > >Pat >Lafayette, IN, USA 47904 >-- >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 5 15:06:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: HP2000 In-Reply-To: <010501c2cd52$b1da95e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00af01c2cd4d$9ece6ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1252.4.20.168.139.1044474703.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <010501c2cd52$b1da95e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1529.4.20.168.139.1044479046.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jay asks: > VERY kewl! But... please clarify... are you saying it lists one firmware > part for the M, and one for the E, or one part number for firmware that > works in either? It gives separate part numbers for IOP firmware for the 2100, M-series, and E-series. For the M-series, it only gave the number of the complete firmware accessory board assembly, but for the 2100 and E-series, it gave the part numbers of the actual PROMs. > IF we had it *sigh*. Can you post that E series IOP firmware part > number, so I can start searching?? I'll look it up tonight. > I knew about the A & B using the old mux (which appears to have > disappeared from the face of the earth), but I thought C used the newer > "smart" mux. Good to Know. That's the main difference between C and C'. The C' uses exactly the same IOP code as F. > Which brings us back to needing the IOP firmware, in order to tweak the > code to support other more common drives. *sigh* I'm not sure I understand. What does IOP firmware have to do with drives? Eric From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 5 15:08:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: VCF ([CC] was: [CC] Re: [CC] Geting totaly OT/Admin: [CC] tags In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > The VCF is tame compared to here. I get one or two complaints at > every VCF from one (usually crotchety old) nerd. The whining here > is on a level that is beyond belief. I'm certainly the most crotchety old nerd there, and I don't recall having any cause to complain last time. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 5 15:10:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: <040b01c2cd55$d228d200$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <040b01c2cd55$d228d200$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1532.4.20.168.139.1044479242.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Owen wrote about the notched power connector: > 20A rated. That makes more sense than high-temp, but I'm a little surprised as IEC 60320-1 (formerly IEC 320) only covers plugs and sockets up to 16A. Is there another standard that covers the 20A variant? > What's needed for this list is the URL of someone selling these > cords. Noone has found one yet. Hmmm... If we can figure out what standard it conforms to, it will be easier to find it with Google. Eric From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Feb 5 15:12:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested References: Message-ID: <00ff01c2cd5a$cefdb780$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 2:15 PM Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested > First, the question. Look for "SELLING" below for what I have 'for sale'. > > SELLING > > > I also have a couple of prototyping (wire-wrap) VME boards. You can > see everything I have at http://purdueriots.com/mvme/ including (fuzzy) > pictures of the boards. I'd like to get $5 per board + shipping to > recuperate my costs. I can do cheaper for large quantites. > > ** The CPU boards have custom-developed console 'debuggers' that use > the RS-232 port on the CPU card as a console. They *require* that > a PE/IO board be connected to the VME bus in order to 'initialize'. > You could, of course get around this by replacing the ROMs. > > If (when) I get multiple offers, I'll try to choose fairly who gets the > stuff, or divide it up if there's multiple people interested > > Thanks for listening! > > Pat > Lafayette, IN, USA 47904 > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu Pat, I want some of the wire wrap boards. I've sent you an email off-list with details. Thanks, Stuart Johnson From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 5 15:15:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: HP2000 References: <00af01c2cd4d$9ece6ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1252.4.20.168.139.1044474703.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <010501c2cd52$b1da95e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1529.4.20.168.139.1044479046.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <007901c2cd5b$1315a9a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> You wrote... > It gives separate part numbers for IOP firmware for the 2100, M-series, > and E-series. For the M-series, it only gave the number of the complete > firmware accessory board assembly, but for the 2100 and E-series, it > gave the part numbers of the actual PROMs. I'm sure that's because on the M series, you didn't ever get "proms" for IOP. You got a board with the proms soldered in permanently. On the 2100 and E, you don't get a board, you get chips that plug into the existing firmware sockets already in the machine (FAB/FEM). > > Which brings us back to needing the IOP firmware, in order to tweak the > > code to support other more common drives. *sigh* > > I'm not sure I understand. What does IOP firmware have to do with > drives? Everything, in our specific situation. I mean, since you said 2000Access is the only one we have machine readable source code for, then, to tweak the O/S (rewrite the disk I/O handlers) to support other hard drives that are easier to find and more reliable, like the really small HP-IB units, we have to have source, and the only source you mentioned we had was Access, which requires the IOP firmware. Jay West From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 5 15:18:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: <000301c2cd57$acf484f0$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <200302052020.h15KKnPZ024878@narnia.int.dittman.net> <000301c2cd57$acf484f0$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <1538.4.20.168.139.1044479726.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> > + Digital SC008-AB, one with an "A" and one with a "B" on >> it, has many >> > (maybe 20) TNC Jacks monted on it, some with 'terminators' on it. >> Does anyone know what this is? I'm intrigued by it. >> > $5 each + shipping >> >> StarCoupler, for CI. > > ... which are like hen's teeth, except much rarer IIRC ! No kidding, I had to go on a >2000 mile road trip to get one (along with a lot of other stuff, though). Richie Lary, formerly of DEC, tells me that they designed an active CI switch, but the project was cancelled. For the benefit of those of you that aren't familiar with it, CI is a 70 Mbit/second network (somewhat similar to Ethernet) which DEC introduced in 1981. It was originally supported on the DECSYSTEM-20 and VAX-11/780, and the HSC50 was used to attach disk and tape drives to CI clusters. The Star Coupler is a passive device that acts as a hub. I'm still looking for an HSC50 on the west coast. Someone offered to sell me one that is stored in Houston, and if I get sufficiently desperate I'll buy that one. Other HSCxx models are potentially of interest to me, but not as much as the 50. Also looking for HSC modules, documentation and software, RA81 disk drives (especially 18-bit ones), and TA81 tape drives. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 5 15:21:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: HP2000 In-Reply-To: <007901c2cd5b$1315a9a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00af01c2cd4d$9ece6ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1252.4.20.168.139.1044474703.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <010501c2cd52$b1da95e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1529.4.20.168.139.1044479046.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <007901c2cd5b$1315a9a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1544.4.20.168.139.1044479935.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: >> I'm not sure I understand. What does IOP firmware have to do with >> drives? Jay wrote: > Everything, in our specific situation. I mean, since you said 2000Access > is the only one we have machine readable source code for, then, to tweak > the O/S (rewrite the disk I/O handlers) to support other hard drives > that are easier to find and more reliable, like the really small HP-IB > units, we have to have source, and the only source you mentioned we had > was Access, which requires the IOP firmware. I see. I figured that since we have printed listings for C' and E, that we could do hacks like that as patches to the binaries. Of course, the binaries might not exactly match the listings, since they could be older or newer versions. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 5 15:23:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: from "Joe" at Feb 05, 2003 01:46:57 PM Message-ID: <200302052120.h15LKkV23807@shell1.aracnet.com> > At 08:37 AM 2/5/03 -0700, you wrote: > >New York Times > >June 11, 2001 > > > >Court Restricts Heat-Sensor Searches > >By David Stout > > > >WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court today reiterated the right of privacy in the > >age of technology, ruling in an Oregon drug case that the police cannot use > >a heat-seeking device to probe the interior of a home without a search > >warrant. > > > They restricted the use of HEAT SENSORS but they did not restrict the > police from using estimates of exceesive power usage by the power > companies. That's how they "caught" Zane. The thermal imaging sensors > would have probably shown that the source was a computer and not growing > plants. BTW they also use both technologies for detecking stills built > inside of homes. I didn't know I'd been "caught", that was Sridhar and his IBM ES9000. I'm the one that asked how long before some of us do run into this problem due to power usage or heat output, and it looks like the answer is it has already happened thanks to power usage. I do know though, that with having 4-5 computers running 24x7, I've got to have abnormal power usage (not to mention how hellish my electric bills are getting). Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 5 15:28:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: from "John Allain" at Feb 05, 2003 03:33:19 PM Message-ID: <200302052125.h15LPQ924335@shell1.aracnet.com> > What's needed for this list is the URL of someone selling these > cords. Noone has found one yet. Check HP resellers (and not because HP now owns DEC). The cable I got for this originally came from a semi-modern HP workstation. Zane From fm.arnold at gmx.net Wed Feb 5 15:30:01 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Emulex QD 211 Message-ID: >Message: 16 >From: Innfogra@aol.com >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:29:26 EST >Subject: Emulex QD 211 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > >The actual number is QD2110202-00 rev L. From the connectors it is either >ESDI or a MFM hard disk controller for Qbus but I am not sure which. > IIRC the small 10 pin connectoris is for a console-CRT. Has the same pinning as DLV11-J and will work independent of host-sw, only power to QD21 applied is enough. Used for configuration ect. Connect a terminal, and see what it says to you. Will see if I find some Doc's on this. If its ok, its a very useful module. Frank From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 5 15:37:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: VCF ([CC] was: [CC] Re: [CC] Geting totaly OT/Admin: [CC] tags In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > The VCF is tame compared to here. I get one or two complaints at > > every VCF from one (usually crotchety old) nerd. The whining here > > is on a level that is beyond belief. > > I'm certainly the most crotchety old nerd there, and I don't recall having > any cause to complain last time. You're right. You may be a crotchety nerd but you certainly aren't a whiny one ;) It was Chris and Larry Anderson's wife who were complaining about certain audio levels (System of a Down is best played loud ;) One guy complained one year about having to pay for admission EACH DAY, even though the website was pretty explicit about this. I went ahead and gave him free admission to make him happy. I think next year the same guy complained about the parking (when we did it at the San Jose Convention Center). At the last VCF, one old guy complained that the text on the speaker schedule and site map card was too small to read. He had me there ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 5 15:41:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: <200302051847.NAA03177@wordstock.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030205134657.2b5fd754@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030205163852.3a8f6d12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:47 PM 2/5/03 -0500, you wrote: >And thusly Joe spake: >> >> plants. BTW they also use both technologies for detecking stills built >> inside of homes. > >How much power / heat does a distiller use / generate?! It depends on much hooch you're making and how fast you want to make it! The specific heat of ethyl alcohol is readily available. (hick)! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 5 15:41:11 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, In-Reply-To: <20030205195530.GG11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20030205134657.2b5fd754@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030205134657.2b5fd754@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030205164332.0f4fa306@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:55 PM 2/5/03 -0500, you wrote: >Quothe Joe, from writings of Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:46:57PM +0000: >>imaging sensors would have probably shown that the source was a >>computer and not growing plants. BTW they also use both technologies >>for detecking stills built inside of homes. > >They're still chasing after people for having their own stills? You bet! When I left Virginia in 1982 they were still catching an average of one person/year statewide. The last one caught that I know of had his still in the basement of his house and they found him because of excessive heat coming from his house. It >sounds like they've got too much time and money to waste. Time for a >big, big, big budget cut. Yeah but was the last time that you ever saw a beauracracy shrink? Joe From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Feb 5 15:45:01 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, Message-ID: >I use my 14" 6 platter 300MB DASD as a centrifuge for uranium enrichment. > > --John Be careful with that uranium hexaflouride... Besides, if you want to enrich uranium at a decent rate, you really need a significant amount of drives.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From toby at russellsharpe.com Wed Feb 5 15:49:00 2003 From: toby at russellsharpe.com (Tobias Russell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Annex 3 terminal server Message-ID: Hi, I've got an old Annex 3 terminal server which I'd like to connect to my PDP-11 so I can have telnet access into it. Trouble is, I don't have any software with the Annex and I can't work out how to configure the beast. Anyone have any experience with them or suggestions as to how I can get hold of the configuration software? Thanks, Toby From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Feb 5 15:50:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, References: <200302052036.PAA29528@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <02a401c2cd60$6f0be440$0100000a@milkyway> Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Fred Cisin spake: >>> How much power / heat does a distiller use / generate?! >> How much shine could you make from a still heated by a Pentium? > Oooooh! ooooooh! How bout an ethanol cooling system for a P4?!! The > next 'leet mod! Only one problem with that approach - isn't ethanol, er... highly flammable? i.e. if it gets spilt on the CPU, said CPU goes up in flames along with the methanol cooler and pretty much everything else in the system case... Speaking of naffed up PCs, I was given a Celeron 400 box to play with. The CD ROM was (supposedly) dead. And rattling - uh-oh... Opened up the drive and found out that some in-DUH-vidual put a badly cracked CD in there. The CDROM was a 48x. Can you guess what happened to the CD when the drive got up to speed? That's right. It shattered. I spent 25 minutes picking bits of CD out of the mechanism. And then I powered it up again. And it came up to speed and read a CD fine. Guess that says something about Samsung CD drives then... Unfortunately, the other Samsung 48x drive I was given really was dead - the spindle motor bearings seized up... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Feb 5 15:52:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested Message-ID: <200302052149.NAA05637@clulw009.amd.com> >X-Server-Uuid: 03162E99-F22F-4D28-9C2E-3682E73B502C >From: "Feldman, Robert" >To: "'dwightk.elvey@amd.com'" >Subject: RE: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:25:27 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-WSS-ID: 125F5EDD1612440-01-01 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >See below. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dwight K. Elvey [mailto:dwightk.elvey@amd.com] >Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 2:58 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested > > >>From: "Patrick Finnegan" >> >>First, the question. Look for "SELLING" below for what I have 'for sale'. >> >> I've managed to pick up a TECMAR, Inc. "LAB TENDER COMP" card for the >>IBM PC (8bit ISA interface) but I don't have any docs on it. There's a >>total of 5 34pin headers on the card, a bunch of 7400 seris logic, an >>AM9513, AM8255A-5, 5xTL084CJ, 4xHEF4051BP chips, and 3x8switch > ^^^^^^ > Math processor?? > Dwight > >>dip-switches. Does anyone know what this is and/or have software/docs for >>it? > > >[Robert Feldman] Please? > Hi I was incorrect, a quick search shows that it is a timer chip( 9513 ). The 8255's are parallel I/O chips. The 4051's are analog multiplexers. The TL084's are Op-Amps. Other than that, I have no idea what it does. If there was a A/D chip mixed in with the TTL, I'd think it was a multi channel A/D board. Dwight From dittman at dittman.net Wed Feb 5 16:03:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: <1538.4.20.168.139.1044479726.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 05, 2003 01:15:26 PM Message-ID: <200302052200.h15M0b6i026134@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >> > + Digital SC008-AB, one with an "A" and one with a "B" on > >> it, has many > >> > (maybe 20) TNC Jacks monted on it, some with 'terminators' on it. > >> Does anyone know what this is? I'm intrigued by it. > >> > $5 each + shipping > >> > >> StarCoupler, for CI. > > > > ... which are like hen's teeth, except much rarer IIRC ! > > No kidding, I had to go on a >2000 mile road trip to get one > (along with a lot of other stuff, though). Richie Lary, > formerly of DEC, tells me that they designed an active CI switch, > but the project was cancelled. I was able to find a couple. I have the SC and HSJ controllers, but the CIPCAs are hard to find at a low price. > For the benefit of those of you that aren't familiar with it, CI is a > 70 Mbit/second network (somewhat similar to Ethernet) which DEC > introduced in 1981. It was originally supported on the DECSYSTEM-20 > and VAX-11/780, and the HSC50 was used to attach disk and tape drives > to CI clusters. The Star Coupler is a passive device that acts as a > hub. > > I'm still looking for an HSC50 on the west coast. Someone offered > to sell me one that is stored in Houston, and if I get sufficiently > desperate I'll buy that one. Where were you when I posted about the two free HSC50 controllers and drives in Michigan a couple of months ago? I'm probably going to have a couple of HSC95 controllers and RA73 drives available later. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Feb 5 16:23:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: "Eric Smith" "Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable" (Feb 5, 13:07) References: <040b01c2cd55$d228d200$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <1532.4.20.168.139.1044479242.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <10302052221.ZM15270@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 5, 13:07, Eric Smith wrote: > Owen wrote about the notched power connector: > > 20A rated. > > That makes more sense than high-temp, but I'm a little surprised > as IEC 60320-1 (formerly IEC 320) only covers plugs and sockets up > to 16A. Is there another standard that covers the 20A variant? There isn't a 20A variant here :-) In Europe (where the standard comes from!), there are two versions. As I recall: The first you commonly see on electronic equipment, which was originally rated for 6A (IIRC) and later I think up to 10A or 12A (*providing* the cable is also suitable for that current). There are "hot condition" and "cold condition" variants, the "hot condition" being the one for appliances like kettles, platewarmers, etc, which get hot (or warm, at least) and which has a notch in it, to prevent a normal "cold condition" plug being used in error. Although you rarely see hot-condition plugs rated less than 10A or so, that's because you need a 10A rating or more for a kettle element, not because the hot-condition plugs are designed for high current and cold-condition ones for low current (as some people mistakenly think). Eric (Smith) is correct, the difference with the notch is purely temperature rating; maximum current rating catered for by the standard is the same in each case. Be aware, however, that while there are few 6A hot-condition cables, there are quite a lot of 5A/6A cold-conditon ones; indeed they're the most common here, being supplied with every Sun, PC, monitor, network switch, and many domestic electronic devices. Don't chop a lump out of the edge of one of those and expect it to handle 10A safely. Look at the printing on the socket first. The second version is a little larger, has the pins at right angles to the pins in the 10A version, and is rated 16A. In the USA, both versions are allowed higher current ratings, so what you call a 20A version is what we rate for 16A here. This is a result of the USA using an inferior voltage standard, requiring higher currents and leading to greater losses :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Feb 5 16:29:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen"'s message of "Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:14:59 +0100" References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA20@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <200302052202.h15M2X4S038690@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > Yes, and likewise for all BA440-based VAX 4000 systems. Just grab > a kitchen knife (warn the wife first.. she might get scared) and > cut a notch. Works for me and the 3400 :) Be careful, though; sometimes these things really do want power cords that can carry more current. I notched a cord once to replace a cord that went missing when the NCR Tower went to a trade show. It worked, but a couple days later I got a "smells like smoke in the lab" report and found it had browned a bit. -Frank McConnell From red at bears.org Wed Feb 5 16:32:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Annex 3 terminal server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Tobias Russell wrote: > I've got an old Annex 3 terminal server which I'd like to connect to my > PDP-11 so I can have telnet access into it. Trouble is, I don't have any > software with the Annex and I can't work out how to configure the beast. Plug a serial terminal into port 1, configured for 9600 bps, N81. Hold down the "TEST" button while powering the unit on, and it will enter configuration mode on the terminal you plugged in. Once initial configuration is performed, you can do port configurations from the cli on any port, using the 'su' password you provided (defaults to the IP address of the unit). This is how it works on the microAnnex. The Annex 3 should be similar. Xylogics used to provide PDFs of the manuals on their site. Then Bay Networks provided them, and now I imagine Lucent still does. > Anyone have any experience with them or suggestions as to how I can get > hold of the configuration software? Contact me off-list if you need more specific help. ok r. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Feb 5 16:33:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA22@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > Be careful, though; sometimes these things really do want power cords > that can carry more current. I notched a cord once to replace a cord > that went missing when the NCR Tower went to a trade show. It worked, > but a couple days later I got a "smells like smoke in the lab" report > and found it had browned a bit. Ohyeah... in Holland, we use 220VAC, so half the amps.. --f From patrick at evocative.com Wed Feb 5 16:43:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Gathering Classic Computer Info Message-ID: Judging from the level of disagreement on many recent topics, it appears that we all need a distraction! :-) I would like to solicit your help. As part of my research for a project that will benefit this Classic Computer Community, I am trying to assemble an exhaustive database of companies who manufactured what is now classic computer hardware and software. For the moment, I am focusing only on hardware. Software will be the next project. I am seeking to bring together a small part of your collective knowledge and expertise. I have built a simple web page that will collect the names of manufacturers and products. Please go to http://gatekeeper.evocative.com:8080/research and dump your brain! All manufacturers and products are fair game, and in fact, the more obscure the better. Please accept my apologies in advance for the simplistic (crude) interface, but this is simply a data collection exercise and I did not waste much time on flourish. When the project is complete, this data will be cleaned up and made available to anyone who cares to have it. This data will not be sold, it will be free. The site does not collect any personal information; your submissions are completely anonymous. Thanks in advance for your help! Patrick KIM-1 * North Star Horizon * Heath ET-3400 * Rockwell AIM-65 * Heath/Zenith H/Z-88/9 P.S. I'm sure I've missed a plethora of categories; please email me your suggestions using the link on that page. From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 5 16:51:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Gathering Classic Computer Info References: Message-ID: <3E4194A9.8CB60722@rain.org> This sounds like a pretty interesting project! I just tried to look at this page and got the "Page not found" error. After changing the ":" to a forward slash, I don't have permission to look at that page. So, what is the correct(ed) page to look at :)? Patrick Rigney wrote: > > Please go to http://gatekeeper.evocative.com:8080/research and dump your > brain! All manufacturers and products are fair game, and in fact, the more > obscure the better. Please accept my apologies in advance for the > simplistic (crude) interface, but this is simply a data collection exercise > and I did not waste much time on flourish. From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Feb 5 16:59:00 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: OT: PowerBook G3 parts Message-ID: <20030205225613.GF281110@uiuc.edu> Hello, I just got a bronze keyboard (Lombard) G3 powerbook, sans cdrom drive, battery, and AC adapter. Does anyone have parts for this machine or know of a good source to get them from? - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Feb 5 17:01:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Gathering Classic Computer Info Message-ID: <200302052257.OAA05718@clulw009.amd.com> Needs a working url: Dwight >From: "Patrick Rigney" > >Judging from the level of disagreement on many recent topics, it appears >that we all need a distraction! :-) > >I would like to solicit your help. As part of my research for a project >that will benefit this Classic Computer Community, I am trying to assemble >an exhaustive database of companies who manufactured what is now classic >computer hardware and software. For the moment, I am focusing only on >hardware. Software will be the next project. > >I am seeking to bring together a small part of your collective knowledge and >expertise. I have built a simple web page that will collect the names of >manufacturers and products. > >Please go to http://gatekeeper.evocative.com:8080/research and dump your >brain! All manufacturers and products are fair game, and in fact, the more >obscure the better. Please accept my apologies in advance for the >simplistic (crude) interface, but this is simply a data collection exercise >and I did not waste much time on flourish. > >When the project is complete, this data will be cleaned up and made >available to anyone who cares to have it. This data will not be sold, it >will be free. The site does not collect any personal information; your >submissions are completely anonymous. > >Thanks in advance for your help! >Patrick > >KIM-1 * North Star Horizon * Heath ET-3400 * Rockwell AIM-65 * Heath/Zenith >H/Z-88/9 > >P.S. I'm sure I've missed a plethora of categories; please email me your >suggestions using the link on that page. From patrick at evocative.com Wed Feb 5 17:06:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Gathering Classic Computer Info In-Reply-To: <3E4194A9.8CB60722@rain.org> Message-ID: Marvin, thanks for the head's up... that link should now be working properly: http://gatekeeper.evocative.com:8080/research From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Feb 5 17:18:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Gathering Classic Computer Info References: Message-ID: <01c601c2cd6c$5e2fd3f0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Rigney" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:40 PM Subject: Gathering Classic Computer Info > Judging from the level of disagreement on many recent topics, it appears > that we all need a distraction! :-) > > I would like to solicit your help. As part of my research for a project > will be free. The site does not collect any personal information; your > submissions are completely anonymous. > > Thanks in advance for your help! > Patrick > > KIM-1 * North Star Horizon * Heath ET-3400 * Rockwell AIM-65 * Heath/Zenith > H/Z-88/9 > > P.S. I'm sure I've missed a plethora of categories; please email me your > suggestions using the link on that page. > Patrick. It would be very useful to be able to see what systems are already listed... can you put a link on the page for that purpose? Thanks, Stuart Johnson From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 5 17:21:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: <200302052200.h15M0b6i026134@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <1538.4.20.168.139.1044479726.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <200302052200.h15M0b6i026134@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <1414.4.20.168.139.1044487145.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Eric Dittman wrote: > Where were you when I posted about the two free HSC50 controllers > and drives in Michigan a couple of months ago? Not in Michigan, nor with excess funds to pay for shipping to California. Sigh. From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Feb 5 17:23:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: [OT] Update on White LEDz... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030205173942.02e22d80@mail.30below.com> Classiccmp Dudez/Dudettez... Just wanted to say thankz on the help y'all gave me WRT the white LEDz question I posed earlier... Lotsa info I need to sort out in the old, tired head of mine... ... but for anyone else who's interested in stuff like that, thru further googling I stumbled across this site: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi A forum all about -- you guessed it! -- different lighting techniques including white LEDz... Anywho, thanks for all the help, and as things progress... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Feb 5 18:19:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: More Amiga finds and a some great articles to read Message-ID: <02e001c2cd74$f1a2bd70$b150ef42@oemcomputer> Today I was able to find the keyboard and monitor for the 2000HD I got yesterday. Stopped at Borders Book store and found the January 2003 Nuts & Volts has a good article on the Altair 880 titled MICRO MEMORIES. Maloney's Antiques & Collectibles Resource Directory list Computers as a collectable and points several people we all know as experts and recommends books and sites to check out. Also while there looked in Warman's Flea Market Price Guide 2nd Edition (2001) it also list computers as something to look for but boy the prices they give way out of range. Here's are some: a Mac 128 $350, a Mac Plus $50, a IIc $65, a Atari XL800 $125, and a Epson HX-40 $125. Check it out for the remaining ones. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 5 18:33:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Replacment battery for HP 32 E In-Reply-To: <002b01c2cc92$1e9d1de0$01f7b3d1@f9e4l5> from "KOUB" at Feb 4, 3 01:12:25 pm Message-ID: > I have a HP 32 E in excellent condition. My only trouble is the original > battery willn ot hold a charge. How do I go about replacing it? Keith L. Do you still have the old battery pack? If so, it's _very_ easy to rebuild it. Just peel off the paper label and unclip the metal clip/holder from the cells. Recover the little plastic part. Replace the cells with size AA NICds. The polarity, IIRC, is marked on the metal clip. You want to get cells with a flat +ve terminal -- normal cells are too long to fit in the calculator. 'Tagged' cells with the tags pulled off generally fit perfectly. -tony From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Feb 5 18:35:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? References: <20030205203505.35439.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E41AC3A.9020900@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Perhaps a little bit of both. If I were going to emulate a DF-32, > that could be done in battery-backed SRAM - 32K words per unit, > 4 units per CPU. Trivial. The original logic was implemented in > R-series logic. It wouldn't be hard to do it all in TTL, just a > bunch of work. The actual storage technology isn't the issue; the > presentation to the PDP-8 is. Well the most sensable idea is to make the media modular: bus interface , I/O module , data media. {snip} > There is a period SCSI card for OMNIBUS PDP-8s - it has a 6809 > processor on it to relieve the PDP-8 of the nitty-gritty details > of how SCSI works. Same idea, slightly newer peripheral hardware. I think the idea of a processer having about 2000?? transistors and a 8K core stack, with a i/o card having a cpu with say 68000 transitors and 128kb of memory speaks to me of hardware/software bloat. ( this does not count the media used even ). Ben. From dittman at dittman.net Wed Feb 5 18:47:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: <1414.4.20.168.139.1044487145.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 05, 2003 03:19:05 PM Message-ID: <200302060044.h160i6pN027855@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Where were you when I posted about the two free HSC50 controllers > > and drives in Michigan a couple of months ago? > > Not in Michigan, nor with excess funds to pay for shipping to California. > Sigh. That's where a road trip with a couple of friends and a pickup come in handy. I hated having to scrap it. :-( -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From kth at srv.net Wed Feb 5 18:53:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? References: <20030205203505.35439.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> <3E41AC3A.9020900@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3E41B694.7000301@srv.net> ben franchuk wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> Perhaps a little bit of both. If I were going to emulate a DF-32, >> that could be done in battery-backed SRAM - 32K words per unit, >> 4 units per CPU. Trivial. The original logic was implemented in >> R-series logic. It wouldn't be hard to do it all in TTL, just a >> bunch of work. The actual storage technology isn't the issue; the >> presentation to the PDP-8 is. > > > Well the most sensable idea is to make the media modular: > bus interface , I/O module , data media. > > {snip} > >> There is a period SCSI card for OMNIBUS PDP-8s - it has a 6809 >> processor on it to relieve the PDP-8 of the nitty-gritty details >> of how SCSI works. Same idea, slightly newer peripheral hardware. > > > I think the idea of a processer having about 2000?? transistors > and a 8K core stack, with a i/o card having a cpu with say 68000 But, remember, that 8k is 12 bits wide! > > transitors and 128kb of memory speaks to me of hardware/software > bloat. ( this does not count the media used even ). > Ben. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 5 19:03:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: <10302052221.ZM15270@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "pete@dunnington.u-net.com" at Feb 5, 3 10:21:10 pm Message-ID: > In Europe (where the standard comes from!), there are two versions. As > I recall: [...] > Be aware, however, that while there are few 6A hot-condition cables, > there are quite a lot of 5A/6A cold-conditon ones; indeed they're the > most common here, being supplied with every Sun, PC, monitor, network > switch, and many domestic electronic devices. Don't chop a lump out of > the edge of one of those and expect it to handle 10A safely. Look at > the printing on the socket first. I've had far too many problems with the normal moulded cables -- things like marginally-rated cable (certainly not 6A), earth not properly connected, live/neutral reversed, no strain relief, and so on that I now refuse to use them (and am grdually replacing all the ones here). I buy the loose re-wireable connectors and put my own cable on. This seems to be only way to get it done properly. > > The second version is a little larger, has the pins at right angles to > the pins in the 10A version, and is rated 16A. If that's the one I think it is, it doesn't have 2 of the corners cut off -- the connector is rectangular with rounded corners (all 4 the same). What is the connector like the normal 'kettle plug' with round pins? I've only ever seen it in the chassis socket/cable plug configuration. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 5 19:06:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: <20030205200411.GH11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 5, 3 03:04:11 pm Message-ID: > Quothe Bryan Pope, from writings of Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:47:55PM -0500: > > How much power / heat does a distiller use / generate?! > > There's an possible easy way around that for electric stills... just > get a diesel generator (will they run on heating oil from one's oil You are planning on taking a fuel, burning it in an internal combustion engine, using that to generate electricity, then running an electrical heating element off that? Why not just burn the fuel and use the heat it produces? -tony From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 5 19:22:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:35 2005 Subject: Gathering Classic Computer Info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Marvin, thanks for the head's up... that link should now be working > properly: > > http://gatekeeper.evocative.com:8080/research Patrick, A good head start would be to just steal Hans Pufal's Comprehensive Computer Catalog data: http://www.aconit.org/hbp/CCC/ (With Hans' permission of course ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Feb 5 19:22:40 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? References: <20030205203505.35439.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> <3E41AC3A.9020900@jetnet.ab.ca> <3E41B694.7000301@srv.net> Message-ID: <3E41B782.5080302@jetnet.ab.ca> Kevin Handy wrote: >> I think the idea of a processer having about 2000?? transistors >> and a 8K core stack, with a i/o card having a cpu with say 68000 > > > But, remember, that 8k is 12 bits wide! And here I thought it was 7777 wide. :) What I had forgotton is disk data is 12 bits. None the less a 8 bit micro could process 6 bits at a time :) Mass storage for REAL* PDP-8's are interesting because you had paper tape,dec tape and disk storage systems all needing to be compatable and to have virtual memory the OS. *Ones with a front panel. Ben. (Mind you if anybody does get a 12 bit hard drive I would be interested because I am building a 24 bit computer.) From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 5 19:24:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: More Amiga finds and a some great articles to read In-Reply-To: <02e001c2cd74$f1a2bd70$b150ef42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Keys wrote: > check out. Also while there looked in Warman's Flea Market Price Guide 2nd > Edition (2001) it also list computers as something to look for but boy the > prices they give way out of range. Here's are some: a Mac 128 $350, a Mac > Plus $50, a IIc $65, a Atari XL800 $125, and a Epson HX-40 $125. Check it > out for the remaining ones. There's only one thing to do: go to the flea markets as listed in the calendar section of that guide and sell your Mac Plus' for the bargain price of ONLY $40 (which is still about $35 marked up from what they're really worth). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 5 19:35:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Gathering Classic Computer Info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > I would like to solicit your help. As part of my research for a project > that will benefit this Classic Computer Community, I am trying to assemble > an exhaustive database of companies who manufactured what is now classic > computer hardware and software. For the moment, I am focusing only on > hardware. Software will be the next project. One starting point to consider is to look at the show guide/directory of Comdex. At its peak in the mid 1980s, Comdex had literally thousands of exhibitors. The show guide has their addresses and phone numbers, with a short paragraph of their hype. From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Feb 5 20:09:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: More Amiga finds and a some great articles to read References: Message-ID: <001d01c2cd84$0912cf40$0400fea9@game> Those prices are way too high, even for EBAY sellers. Then again the guide was put out during the internet boom when everybody overpaid for collectables since they were making good money. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 8:17 PM Subject: Re: More Amiga finds and a some great articles to read > On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Keys wrote: > > > check out. Also while there looked in Warman's Flea Market Price Guide 2nd > > Edition (2001) it also list computers as something to look for but boy the > > prices they give way out of range. Here's are some: a Mac 128 $350, a Mac > > Plus $50, a IIc $65, a Atari XL800 $125, and a Epson HX-40 $125. Check it > > out for the remaining ones. > > There's only one thing to do: go to the flea markets as listed in the > calendar section of that guide and sell your Mac Plus' for the bargain > price of ONLY $40 (which is still about $35 marked up from what they're > really worth). > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Feb 5 20:16:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: References: <20030205200411.GH11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20030206024057.GJ11651@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 12:56:29AM +0000: > You are planning on taking a fuel, burning it in an internal combustion > engine, using that to generate electricity, then running an electrical > heating element off that? Why not just burn the fuel and use the heat it > produces? Actually, one can build a still into their old (the old ones are bigger) oil-fired or coal-burning furnace with the result of much less wasted energy. :-) Hey, perhaps I should patent this energy-efficient (well, in the winter, anyway) method of making moonshine. Of course, by using a generator, one could also power quite a few grow lamps (in an underground room, of course) and computer controlled automated potato launchers, as well as the high-power RFI generators. ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Wed Feb 5 20:40:01 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, Message-ID: Wow. That's extremely good news. Unfortunately, my experience in repairing the samsung TV's is that you *start* by replacing about AUS $50 worth of power supply components, then you see what else failed. AARRGGH. Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston -----Original Message----- From: Philip Pemberton [mailto:philpem@dsl.pipex.com] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:49 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Fred Cisin spake: >>> How much power / heat does a distiller use / generate?! >> How much shine could you make from a still heated by a Pentium? > Oooooh! ooooooh! How bout an ethanol cooling system for a P4?!! The > next 'leet mod! Only one problem with that approach - isn't ethanol, er... highly flammable? i.e. if it gets spilt on the CPU, said CPU goes up in flames along with the methanol cooler and pretty much everything else in the system case... Speaking of naffed up PCs, I was given a Celeron 400 box to play with. The CD ROM was (supposedly) dead. And rattling - uh-oh... Opened up the drive and found out that some in-DUH-vidual put a badly cracked CD in there. The CDROM was a 48x. Can you guess what happened to the CD when the drive got up to speed? That's right. It shattered. I spent 25 minutes picking bits of CD out of the mechanism. And then I powered it up again. And it came up to speed and read a CD fine. Guess that says something about Samsung CD drives then... Unfortunately, the other Samsung 48x drive I was given really was dead - the spindle motor bearings seized up... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Feb 5 20:40:39 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: <1538.4.20.168.139.1044479726.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > >> > + Digital SC008-AB, one with an "A" and one with a "B" on > >> > >> StarCoupler, for CI. > > No kidding, I had to go on a >2000 mile road trip to get one > (along with a lot of other stuff, though). Richie Lary, > formerly of DEC, tells me that they designed an active CI switch, > but the project was cancelled. So would it be worthwhile for me to pop the cover on one of these and generate a schematic to post on my website? Or are there not any compents inside? Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Feb 5 20:46:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: FW: Some old computer stuff... Message-ID: <04b901c2cd89$9387a830$6e7ba8c0@piii933> The following message is from a gentleman who is interested in selling a 286 based laptop of unknown provenance. If you are interested please contact him directly at the email address given below. Thank you, Erik -----Original Message----- From: Randy Kaufman [mailto:krandy@CLEMSON.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:54 PM To: webmaster@vintage-computer.com Subject: Some old computer stuff... Erik, I have an old 'portable' PC. It is 286-based, has a 20M hard drive, 5 1/4 floppy and LCD screen. No idea who made it, as there is no name on it. Saw a picture of one on the web, but it had the name 'TRAVELLER' on it. Looks and works great. If you are interested, let me know. Thanks! Randy Kaufman krandy@clemson.edu From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 5 20:49:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: References: <1538.4.20.168.139.1044479726.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1987.4.20.168.139.1044499617.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Pat writes about the DEC SC008 Star Coupler for CI: > So would it be worthwhile for me to pop the cover on one of these and > generate a schematic to post on my website? Or are there not any > compents inside? The contents consist of a small number of large custom-wound transformers, if what I've heard is correct. I sort of imagine that the base eight-port version would have a transformer with nine windings, one for each port and one to attach the optional in-cabinet expansion to sixteen ports. But I haven't actually torn one apart, so I could be completely wrong. CI was normally run with two redundant paths. I'm not sure if an eight-port SC008 has two separate transformers to support that, or if you just had to use two SC008s. It would be desirable to run the redundant paths through physically separate Star Couplers, which suggests that each would only have one transformer (two for a 16-port). From dittman at dittman.net Wed Feb 5 20:52:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Feb 05, 2003 09:41:53 PM Message-ID: <200302060249.h162nFrU028740@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > >> > + Digital SC008-AB, one with an "A" and one with a "B" on > > >> > > >> StarCoupler, for CI. > > > > No kidding, I had to go on a >2000 mile road trip to get one > > (along with a lot of other stuff, though). Richie Lary, > > formerly of DEC, tells me that they designed an active CI switch, > > but the project was cancelled. > > So would it be worthwhile for me to pop the cover on one of these and > generate a schematic to post on my website? Or are there not any compents > inside? The CI coupler is all passive. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Feb 5 20:54:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable References: <040b01c2cd55$d228d200$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <1532.4.20.168.139.1044479242.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <01d801c2cd8a$cdb4bbf0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:07 PM Subject: Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable > Owen wrote about the notched power connector: > > 20A rated. > > That makes more sense than high-temp, but I'm a little surprised > as IEC 60320-1 (formerly IEC 320) only covers plugs and sockets up > to 16A. Is there another standard that covers the 20A variant? > > > What's needed for this list is the URL of someone selling these > > cords. Noone has found one yet. > > Hmmm... If we can figure out what standard it conforms to, it will > be easier to find it with Google. I came across http://www.quail.com/NACords/index.html a few days ago. They seem to have the cords I need, both the C15 (notched) and C19 (horizontal prongs). I haven't called then yet to check proces and quantities, but I'm taking next week off to have a baby, so I expect to have lots of Copious Spare Time in which to take care of things. :) > > Eric Bob From dittman at dittman.net Wed Feb 5 20:55:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: <1987.4.20.168.139.1044499617.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 05, 2003 06:46:57 PM Message-ID: <200302060252.h162q0Eb028781@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > So would it be worthwhile for me to pop the cover on one of these and > > generate a schematic to post on my website? Or are there not any > > compents inside? > > The contents consist of a small number of large custom-wound > transformers, if what I've heard is correct. Actually, a small number of small custom-wound transformers. > CI was normally run with two redundant paths. I'm not sure if > an eight-port SC008 has two separate transformers to support that, > or if you just had to use two SC008s. It would be desirable to > run the redundant paths through physically separate Star Couplers, > which suggests that each would only have one transformer (two for > a 16-port). I can post pictures of a board sometime in the next week or so. I've got one that's removed from the cabinet. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Feb 5 21:09:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: <200302060252.h162q0Eb028781@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > So would it be worthwhile for me to pop the cover on one of these and > > > generate a schematic to post on my website? Or are there not any > > > compents inside? > > > > The contents consist of a small number of large custom-wound > > transformers, if what I've heard is correct. > > Actually, a small number of small custom-wound transformers. "Ick." (from a difficulty to reverse-engineer standpoint). I'm not fond of winding transformers. > > CI was normally run with two redundant paths. I'm not sure if > > an eight-port SC008 has two separate transformers to support that, > > or if you just had to use two SC008s. It would be desirable to > > run the redundant paths through physically separate Star Couplers, > > which suggests that each would only have one transformer (two for > > a 16-port). > > I can post pictures of a board sometime in the next week or so. > I've got one that's removed from the cabinet. So, I'll take that as a 'don't bother taking it apart'. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From thompson at new.rr.com Wed Feb 5 21:31:01 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: <1987.4.20.168.139.1044499617.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > CI was normally run with two redundant paths. I'm not sure if > an eight-port SC008 has two separate transformers to support that, > or if you just had to use two SC008s. It would be desirable to > run the redundant paths through physically separate Star Couplers, > which suggests that each would only have one transformer (two for > a 16-port). > One star coupler is sufficient for both paths. Where to plug path A vs path B is clearly labelled and the CI protocol detects crossed cables. Other than for some degree of path diversity, two SC008's were typically used if you had HSJ50 or higher controllers which could saturate a ci with many nodes. Also, the full bandwidth of the HSJ80 cannot be achieved without multiple SC's and CIPCA's (or other ci widget) on the host end. -- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 5 21:50:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: AU subscribers Newsletter (fwd again) (fwd) Message-ID: <200302060357.TAA27494@stockholm.ptloma.edu> I got this message on one of the Commodore mailing lists. This may arrive too late, but may be of (significant) interest to Commodore and Amiga folks. Hello, Commodorians, The following has not been verified yet, but it seems that Centsible Software, the largest vendor of C= and Amiga software, might be the target of an unfriendly buy-out, unfriendly meaning that the new owner has no concern for the C=/Ami community. Read on and decide, Robert Bernardo Fresno Commodore User Group http://videocam.net.au/fcug ====================================================================== ________ _________ ____ _|__ __ __|_______ _________ __\ _____ \\\\ \_ _/ //___// _____//______\ _____ \\ // \\\\ /. \\\\__ \/ __// \\ \\____. /// \\\\ /. \\ \\___\O /___///___\ /___\ \\_________//\\___\O /___// O \/ O O \/. |O O|z!o O O \/ O A M I G A | 030204 | U P D A T E |________| "SO THE WORLD MAY KNOW" ====================================================================== AMIGA and the Amiga logo are trademarks of Amiga, Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- C E N T S I B L E B U Y O U T H E L P R E Q U E S T C E N T S I B L E B U Y O U T U P D A T E Editor's Thoughts and Introduction: We received the following notes from Bill Griffin too late to include in the last issue. As a well known member of the Amiga community, we would have included at least the first note in the issue had we seen it in time. We are treating this as a news item, not as an endorsement on our part of Bill's requests. If you choose to participate, it is your decision and at your own risk, as is the case in any business arangement. We have carried offers from Amiga Inc. as part of news stories, and similarly for other companies as part of news stories. The situation at Centsible is certainly newsworthy, so news this is. Since one of the founding principles of Amiga Update is to get news out when it's fresh, not necessarily on a regular schedule, we are providing this information while it's new and still relevant to the community. Best of luck to all concerned!! Brad Webb, Editor =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- C E N T S I B L E B U Y O U T H E L P R E Q U E S T 2 Feb 2003 I'm sorry I'm contacting you after you have already put out the AU newsletter, but I am in desperate needof help from our Amiga Brethern. AS you know, I am the publisher of "the NEW AMIGANS" magazine. What you might not know is that I am also working at Centsible software part-time. I was recently informed by Scott (the owner) that another party has made an offer for the company. At first, I thought I would simply have to contact them and get new advertising set up. But I found out just Thursday that the other party intends to dissolve the company and sell off the inventory on ebay "a little at a time" over the course of several years. Now Centsible is the only remaining source (as far as I know) for several of the custom chips that are needed to maintain our Amigas (as well as for C64s and C128s). If the other party takes the inventory, and one of our computers break down, we may be SOL on getting them repaired (unless the chips needed JUST HAPPEN to be on ebay at that moment). Scott told me that if I can match their offer of $2,000 down and $2,000 on delivery of inventory, he would finance the rest of the buyout (at 0% interest). Now I can scrape together about $1,000. But that would be needed for opening the new store location (rent, utilities, phones, etc). I have a person who is offering the loan me $2,000 but it will take time to get the money out of his investments for me to use. Scott has told me that whoever gets the first $2,000 to him gets the company. I have already put out a plea to as many Amigans as I have email addresses. And have been able to raise just under $1,000. I know you can reach many more Amigans than I have addresses for. Could you PLEASE rebroadcast this emergeny plea ASAP. For the contributors I have the following proposal: There are several fully functional computers in this inventory. I am willing to offer choice of those units (I would need at least one to run the business, but the rest would be up for grabs) to anyone who contributes more than $100 or so (on a first donated, first to choose basis). For the $50 and up crowd, I would also include the A500s (I know of at least 5) and some software to make it a bit fairer. If the computer you like isn't available by the time the order works down to you, I would offer store credit (possibly in the form of 125% or so - of what you contributed, or a repayment of 110% of what you contributed over the course of a year (much better than the stcok funds are now offering). Any contributions under $50.00 (I'm open to all Amigans - my finances are tight now too). I would offer the store credit (of 125% of their investment) or 110% repayment at the end of the first year (so I don't have to write out so many checks each month). I ask those who are interested to contribute via PayPal (simply because it is the fastest way to get the money to me - and its a case of who has the money in hand first that counts on this deal). If anyone wants to send a check I would need it here via overnight in order to ensure I have the money before the other person does. And, of course, if I lose the purchase, I will immediately refund any and all contributions sent. My main purpose here is to prevent our Amiga resources from dwindling down much further until the new Amigas can take a toe-hold. To make your paypal contributions (of ANY size) simply go to the paypal website and click on send money. Use my email address (wd8izh@beanstalk.net) in the "Pay To:" section and follow the rest ofthe instructions. PLEASE don't let this important parts and software resource die. Help me maintain the integrity of the dealership know as Centsible Software. Finally, because the other party is NOT and Amiga user, BUT DOES auction Amiga stuff, I have reason to believe that he follows the Amiga News Groups. Sinsce I don't want to end up lossing the company to a "bidding war" I ask that nobody place this on an NG. But PLEASE forward it to EVERY Amigan and C64/c128 user you know. Thank you --------- Its gonna be a heck of a century! Bill Griffin, G&G Publishing Enterprises Home of "the NEW AMIGANS" magazine Ask about our new, US-based, Amiga Magazine Or check out our website at http://get.to/t.n.a .. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- C E N T S I B L E B U Y O U T U P D A T E 3 Feb 2003 So far we have raise only $700 of what is needed for the downpayment on Centsible. I have found an investor who can get another $2,000 to me in about 2 weeks. Scott has now told me that He will not be making any calls to the other party to get money from them until the weather clears. Which he doesn't see hapening for at least a week. However, if the other party send the money to secure the deal (on their own) Scott will be obligated to honor the deal and we will lose Centsible Software forever. This affords us a SLIGHT chance to finish up the job and save Centsible Software. It also means that those of you out there who want to help, but don't have credit cards (or who don't want to go through PayPal) have a chance to get in on this deal. I have enough time (barely) to accept contributions via mail. I will simply hold the checks (uncashed) until I either get enough to complete the deal, or the other party gets their money in first. If that happens, I simply send back the uncashed checks. This way, if any of you have interest earning checking, you won't even lose the interest on your money. Again, I am willing to accept help in any dollar amount and all the terms I stated in my proposal apply. I only ask that, if you send help via the post office, you email me and let me know it as well. To send your help via mail, send it to: Bill Griffin PO Box 447 Edwardsburg, MI 49112-0447 And put the words "Centsible Buyout" on the memo line. PLEASE rebroadcast and forward to as many Amiga and C64 enthusiasts as you possibly can. And thank you, in advance, for all your help. ------------ Its gonna be a heck of a century! Bill Griffin, G&G Publishing Enterprises Home of "the NEW AMIGANS" magazine Ask about our new, US-based, Amiga Magazine Or check out our website at http://get.to/t.n.a .. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Amiga Update on the net: All back issues available at: http://www.globaldialog.com/~amigaupdate/index.html Stop by and check out our archive! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright 2003 by Brad Webb. Freely distributable, if not modified. ====================================================================== _ __ _ <>_ __ _ A M I G A /\\ |\ /|| || / ` /\\ A M I G A U P D A T E /__\\ | \ / || || || ___ /__\\ U P D A T E / \\_ | \/ ||_ _||_ \__// / \\_ amigaupdate@globaldialog.com -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I can't walk a mile in their shoes. They smell funny. ---------------------- From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Feb 5 22:08:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Request for help with a PDP 11/73 References: <20030204192846.QTAQ23484.out001.verizon.net@[192.168.129.213]> Message-ID: <3E41DEBD.4DADA33C@compsys.to> >chu@verizon.net wrote: > I just bought a PDP 11/73, but > unfortunately UPS dropped it > on the way. So I am trying to > what ever documentation and > diagnostics that I can locate > to figure out how badly it was > damaged. > The mounts for the tape drive and > disk drive were broken as well as > all of the external plastic. > The machine powers up and goes through > some self diagnostics, stopping with the > LED's reading "01". The disk drive stays > quite and unlit, my conclusion was that it > appears dead. > I am looking for any help that I can get. > TIA, > Dave Chu Jerome Fine replies: Unfortunately, my personal experience with a PDP-11/73 is that a complete system is now less expensive than the repairs that you mention. If you know the part numbers for the individual boards, then popular ones might be easy to replace. But I have found that a complete system comes along every so often - usually at a reasonable price if you are patient. If this was a BA23 box, then it should not be too difficult to find another one in the US. A dropped disk drive usually has problems. On the other hand, UPS does NOT have a good reputation of being responsible for damage of any sort. Was the shipment even insured? And for how much? Reply off the list if you want to keep that part private! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. >From - Wed Feb 05 00:14: From norm-classiccmp at docnorm.com Wed Feb 5 23:30:00 2003 From: norm-classiccmp at docnorm.com (norm-classiccmp@docnorm.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: scanning microfiche Message-ID: Brian Knittel and I have a few hundred fiche of IBM documentation and code relating to the 1130 (http://ibm1130.org). This is tens of thousands of pages that we'd love to get into a digital form -- in particular we want to get a few fiche done FAST because Brian borrowed them from someone else who won an interesting set at auction recently. My attempts to scan them with an Epson 2450 Photo have been unsatisfactory, apparently mostly because of slight focus issues that only become apparent at the highest resolutions, and I've started to believe that we need to use a real microfiche scanner to do the job. Unfortunately they're way expensive, and I can't think of buying one ... and service bureaus charge by the page, about $.10 per page to be exact. We need a cheaper option. So ... does anyone know of a fiche scanner that occasionally sits unused, that we could use? Or, does anyone have any better ideas? Thanks, Norm Aleks From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Feb 5 23:42:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: scanning microfiche In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 norm-classiccmp@docnorm.com wrote: > So ... does anyone know of a fiche scanner that occasionally sits unused, > that we could use? Or, does anyone have any better ideas? Sadly, I don't have a helpful answer for you here. I know that getting microfiche scanned has come up on the list in the past. How much does a good quality microfiche scanner cost--either new or used? What are some makes and models of better scanners (or at least scanners that would be suitable for digitizing computer documentation?) -brian. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 6 01:58:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: scanning microfiche In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 norm-classiccmp@docnorm.com wrote: > >> So ... does anyone know of a fiche scanner that occasionally sits unused, >> that we could use? Or, does anyone have any better ideas? > >Sadly, I don't have a helpful answer for you here. > >I know that getting microfiche scanned has come up on the list in the >past. How much does a good quality microfiche scanner cost--either new >or used? What are some makes and models of better scanners (or at least >scanners that would be suitable for digitizing computer documentation?) Last I looked, a Microfiche Scanner will run you between $1000-5000, that takes you from some oddball kludge (or used equipment) up to some pretty nice systems. Really good systems can cost a lot more I believe. One solution I've heard, is to get a microfiche printer and get printouts, then to scan them into electronic format. Please, not, I'm NOT recommending this idea, and don't consider it a good one, but it would work for very low volume, and a lot of Libraries at least used to have Microfiche printers that you could take your fiche in and get printouts on. Actually that $0.10 a page price that the Norm mentions sounds pretty darn good to me! Any idea's what quantity you've got to get done to get those sort of prices? I've got a LOT of doc's on Microfiche, and would sure like to see some of it in an electronic format. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Feb 6 02:10:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, References: Message-ID: <001f01c2cdb7$0402d940$0100000a@milkyway> Doug Jackson wrote: > Unfortunately, my experience in repairing the samsung TV's is that you > *start* by replacing about AUS $50 worth of power supply components, > then you see what else failed. And yet I've got a nine-year-old Samsung Syncmaster 3 monitor that refuses to die. Sure, it may only be 14", but it's a damn nice monitor. Not as nice as a Sony FDTrinitron monitor, but nice... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From hansp at aconit.org Thu Feb 6 02:15:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Gathering Classic Computer Info References: Message-ID: <3E421907.9050006@aconit.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > A good head start would be to just steal Hans Pufal's Comprehensive > Computer Catalog data: > > http://www.aconit.org/hbp/CCC/ > > (With Hans' permission of course ;) Well I'd rather work together than be in competition but since many copies of my list exist on the web already I see no great harm in another one!! -- hbp From hansp at aconit.org Thu Feb 6 02:19:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: scanning microfiche References: Message-ID: <3E421A14.8080904@aconit.org> norm-classiccmp@docnorm.com wrote: > So ... does anyone know of a fiche scanner that occasionally sits unused, > that we could use? Or, does anyone have any better ideas? Well actually yes I do, we have one (in unknown condition) at ACONIT, Grenoble France, and there is another one I am aware of in Morlaix, northern France. I could also possibly get access to a university scanner if the need was great. I don't suppose this is much help to you though being on the other side of the globe!! But I'd be very happy to help out if I can -- hbp From hansp at aconit.org Thu Feb 6 02:22:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: scanning microfiche References: Message-ID: <3E421AC5.8020704@aconit.org> Brian Chase wrote: > I know that getting microfiche scanned has come up on the list in the > past. How much does a good quality microfiche scanner cost--either new > or used? What are some makes and models of better scanners (or at least > scanners that would be suitable for digitizing computer documentation?) I saw a Cannon unit at a thrift store near Atlanta some 18 months go with a $70 price tag. Hauling it back to europe was not practicable so I had to leave it :-( -- hbp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Feb 6 02:27:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: scanning microfiche Message-ID: I own a scanner capable of scanning 'fiche... It scans up to 19,200dpi.. The problem is that it is on the second floor of the building my work is in, and it weighs 1,450 pounds or so... It also needs a new optical drive. Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Feb 6 02:30:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable" (Feb 6, 0:53) References: Message-ID: <10302060801.ZM15623@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 6, 0:53, Tony Duell wrote: > I've had far too many problems with the normal moulded cables -- things > like marginally-rated cable (certainly not 6A), earth not properly > connected, live/neutral reversed, no strain relief, and so on that I now > refuse to use them (and am grdually replacing all the ones here). I've rarely had any problem, but then I'm generally reusing cables sthat have been tested, and tend not to exceed the ratings. > > The second version is a little larger, has the pins at right angles to > > the pins in the 10A version, and is rated 16A. > > If that's the one I think it is, it doesn't have 2 of the corners cut off > -- the connector is rectangular with rounded corners (all 4 the same). Yes, I should have mentined that. > What is the connector like the normal 'kettle plug' with round pins? I've > only ever seen it in the chassis socket/cable plug configuration. Dunno -- that might be one of the Bulgin range? Or do you mean one in which the housing also looks a bit like three cylinders welded together, instead of a rectangular block with corners cut off? That's also an IEC connector, rated 2.5A. I've seen a couple of laptop power suplies with those. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From red at bears.org Thu Feb 6 03:40:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Data Conversion, Inc DT2861-60Hz available Message-ID: I have in my grubby paws a Data Conversion, Inc. ISA boardset that anybody on the list may have for 1.2x the cost of shipping it. Model DT2861-60Hz, plus unknown model daughterboard with a bunch of memory on, plus DT2878-4 with TI DSP on. Board has DA-15M and DE-9M connectors. It is surplus from Boeing, in Kent, WA. The manufacturer is still in business and probably will still send you software, though the option isn't there on their website. http://www.datx.com I'm throwing the boards away if nobody takes them. ok r. From massimo.vettore at zf.com Thu Feb 6 03:42:01 2003 From: massimo.vettore at zf.com (Vettore Massimo MARPD EDP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: I saw you post 12-17-02 about Intel 1602 Message-ID: <35F5E396DA78D4118C2D00508BEED22E017A1E5E@pd1016.zfm.zf-group.de> You could find information on Intel 8702A at the IMSAI web site http://www.imsai.net/support/support.htm look at Intel 8080 Microcomputer Systems User's Manual part 2 or straight http://www.imsai.net/support/device_specs/Intel8080Manual-2.pdf go to page 56 Regards Max ----- Original Message ----- Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 00:51:50 -0600 From: Alex Welti Subject: I saw you post 12-17-02 about Intel 1602 To: cctech@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >I have been handed down a room full of electronics - my >brother-in-law's father passed away - and I am the nearest relative who >has a career in electronics, so... I am spending my evenings going >through and identifing parts, most of which I am familiar with and have >datasheets on. However, I can't find anything on these i C8702A. A >web search brought me to your posting. I am hoping you have a datasheet >or know where I should go to find one. > >Thanks, >Alex From Thilo.Schmidt at unix-ag.org Thu Feb 6 04:22:00 2003 From: Thilo.Schmidt at unix-ag.org (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: interesting find Message-ID: <20030206101916.GA22136@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de> Hi, Last week I found something which I think may be an ancient NVRAM Module. Sadly I couldn't find any useful information on the web, except on this page: http://www.iser.uni-erlangen.de:8980/iser/servlet/Anzeigen45?inventarnummer=I0105 It uses rather large magnetic rods to store data (4x25mm). The PCB is dated 1972 and it was probably used in a Nixdorf-Computer. It's called Staebchenspeicher in german (maybe rod-memory in english?). Does anyone have further information on this module? bye Thilo From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Feb 6 05:32:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: scanning microfiche In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030206031247.00a669f0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 09:25 PM 2/5/03 -0800, norm-classiccmp@docnorm.com wrote: >Brian Knittel and I have a few hundred fiche of IBM documentation and code >relating to the 1130 (http://ibm1130.org). This is tens of thousands of What about making some kind of contact print to 35 mm slide film, then using a slide scanner? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Feb 6 05:33:59 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: ZIP Chip (Was: Is there such a thing as a ZIF socket for PLCC chips?) In-Reply-To: <3E4175A1.27600.54A102EB@localhost> References: <20030204224116.58519.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030206030511.00a51760@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 08:35 PM 2/5/03 +0100, Hans Franke wrote: >Well, listening to all this ZIF informations, I have a total >unrelated question: does anyone of you remember the ZIP Chip, >an upgrade CPU for the Apple II. It's been a 4+ MHz 6502 with >some cache. Or what about the Rocket Chip, the competition? As long as you fing one of the old Applied Engineering carrier things as recently as last year a group buy for some of the 12 mhz IIRC chips was going on in one of the Apple II groups. It never really tempted me that much, since I have some many systems, running something on the old A2 has going slow as part of its charm. From jba at sdf.lonestar.org Thu Feb 6 06:58:01 2003 From: jba at sdf.lonestar.org (Jeffrey Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow 100 website Message-ID: Hey everyone, I just wanted to announce thta I will be opening a new Rainbow 100 website on Saturday, Feb 8. The site is located at: http://www.classiccmp.org/rainbow Right now, all that is there is an announcement. I hope everyone will take a moment top visit once it's open. I haven't been keeping up with everything in the Rainbow commumnity. I noticed that all the schematics have been posted on the Update (ftp.update.uu.se) archives. Who took the time to do this? I just wanted to thank them. Anyway, visit the page if you get a chance! Thanks! -Jeff jba@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 6 08:47:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: 6502 fans - the SBC-2 is about to have another run - order boards now! In-Reply-To: <003301c2abb7$ae1a4fc0$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20030206144431.1774.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> For those who haven't been to http://65c02.tripod.com/ , the SBC-2 is a single-board 6502 with the following onboard: > > BTW, I haven't ordered parts yet (been swamped with stuff since I got > > laid off). The 6502 board I was mentioning is called the SBC-2. It's > > home is http://65c02.tripod.com/home.html I've been talking to Daryl > > and he has interest for 3 at the moment (including my 2, I think). If > > I haven't mentioned it to you, one of my goals is to hook a G321D LCD > > display to the SBC-2 and use it as a VT52 emulator for the SBC6120. > > Both are 100% CMOS. The G321D needs -24VDC, so I'll probably go with > > the DC-DC converter recommended by one of the project pages and use > > that to drive everything. It kicks out 3A @ +5VDC plus enough -24VDC > > to drive the G321D. Should run a flash card or a 2.5" IDE drive, too. From allain at panix.com Thu Feb 6 08:54:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: scanning microfiche References: Message-ID: <003c01c2cdef$3ee57c60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Just another vote for the direct optical to camera approach -- basically putting a jewellers loupe in front of a decent digital camera (which one should consider having for general use anyway). I have had great results doing this. Kludge side of the fence, but a good one. John A. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Feb 6 09:29:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Strainge VAXserver 2000 card? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA27@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, A strange find today, in the pile of stuff-to-figure-out. See attached pictures. Its one of those little option cards that fit in the VS2000's "pizzabox" expansion unit. I have two of these machines, both have the box. One of the machines is a VAXserver 2000 (!), and that one had this card. One single flatcable going to the machine's mainboard (connector on the side of the mainboard, above the power supply) and it has the usual DEC 3-row connector on the outside faceplate. What's this? Serial line expander of some sort? The X.25 thing I heard about? Larger pictures available at 1600x1280 and 1280x1024. Cheers, Fred [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of VS2000-OPT-1_SM.JPG] [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of VS2000-OPT-2_SM.JPG] From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Feb 6 09:41:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Strainge VAXserver 2000 card? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA28@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> And thanks to some fucked-up demime thing, pics can be found here: http://www.microwalt.nl/Fred/VAXlab/VS2000-OPT-1.JPG http://www.microwalt.nl/Fred/VAXlab/VS2000-OPT-2.JPG These are the 1280x1024 ones., for clarity of the card's details. --fred From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 6 09:48:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: 6502 fans - the SBC-2 is about to have another run - order boards now! In-Reply-To: <003301c2abb7$ae1a4fc0$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20030206154506.56863.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> (Whoops... let's try that again with the editing *finished* this time... For those who haven't been to http://65c02.tripod.com/ , the SBC-2 is a single-board 6502 with the following onboard: o 1 MHz 65c02 o 32K of static RAM o 32k of EEPROM o 2 x 65C22 Versatile Interface Adapters (VIA) o 1 x 65C51 Asynchronous Interface Adapter. o Eight 16-byte address blocks decoded for I/O (3 used onboard) This will be the second run of boards. At the moment, Daryl has ten orders. The deadline is 15-Feb. Picture at http://65c02.tripod.com/sbc2.jpg Current cost breakdown is: (from Daryl's announcement) $26.20 per board $4-6 shipping US $4-14 shipping outside US $2 for the serial cable (The serial cable is a 10-pin IDC<->DE9M, like the kind you find on Socket3 and Socket7 PeeCee motherboards). No guarantees that more orders will hit a new price point, so if you have an interest in a compact CMOS 6502 SBC, write Daryl: 65c02@softcom.net Do it soon. Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with the SBC-2 except as a potential customer. -ethan From bones at northrock.bm Thu Feb 6 09:49:00 2003 From: bones at northrock.bm (Dennis Eldridge) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Prehistoric CAD system... Message-ID: <001d01c2cdf6$e28f3480$0149030a@mohg.com> In the mid-1980's I lived in Lowell, MA and my then wife (and briefly, myself) worked for a circuit board design company. Their primary CAD system was a PDP-11 based system from a company called, I believe, Telesys. It was a very good system from my recollection; it used a dual-display concept which was very efficient and had extremely good performance. The actual design consoles looked a lot like arcade video game consoles. There was a small monochrome CRT on the lower panel which displayed menus which one used a light pen to navigate through, and which was also used for drawing. One saw the results in "realtime" on the larger colour screen, all very sharp. Does anyone here have any more info on these. I do recall this being a *very* good system, but I can't find mention in my web searches. Thanks, Dennis "Come all ye roving minstrels And together we will try To raise the spirit of the Earth And move the rolling Sky" From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 6 10:08:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: scanning microfiche In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > One solution I've heard, is to get a microfiche printer and get > printouts, then to scan them into electronic format. Please, not, I'm > NOT recommending this idea, and don't consider it a good one, but it > would work for very low volume, and a lot of Libraries at least used to > have Microfiche printers that you could take your fiche in and get > printouts on. I have such a fiche reader. It has a laser printer built into it. Very cool. Norm can bring the fiche over, we can print them with this device, and then they could be OCR'd using a sheet-fed scanner. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From kth at srv.net Thu Feb 6 10:20:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Strainge VAXserver 2000 card? References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA27@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3E428FC1.3030600@srv.net> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >All, > >A strange find today, in the pile of stuff-to-figure-out. > >See attached pictures. Its one of those little option cards that >fit in the VS2000's "pizzabox" expansion unit. I have two of these >machines, both have the box. One of the machines is a VAXserver >2000 (!), and that one had this card. One single flatcable going >to the machine's mainboard (connector on the side of the mainboard, >above the power supply) and it has the usual DEC 3-row connector >on the outside faceplate. > >What's this? Serial line expander of some sort? The X.25 thing I >heard about? > >Larger pictures available at 1600x1280 and 1280x1024. > > I'd guess it is the additional serial port card. The complete kit would have a cable and a harmonica box, to give an additional 8 serial lines. If it boots VMS, you can look at a show device listing to see if it shows an additional 8 TX(?) lines. That would tell you for sure. From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Feb 6 10:31:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Prehistoric CAD system... References: <001d01c2cdf6$e28f3480$0149030a@mohg.com> Message-ID: <3E428D36.20000@eoni.com> This might help. In the mid-eighties, I was making the transition from CADDS 4x to DEC-Euclid. By late eighties, from DEC-Euclid to CATIA. Busy busy time in the CAD world. Jim Dennis Eldridge wrote: > In the mid-1980's I lived in Lowell, MA and my then wife (and briefly, > myself) worked for a circuit board design company. Their primary CAD system > was a PDP-11 based system from a company called, I believe, Telesys. It was > a very good system from my recollection; it used a dual-display concept > which was very efficient and had extremely good performance. > > The actual design consoles looked a lot like arcade video game consoles. > There was a small monochrome CRT on the lower panel which displayed menus > which one used a light pen to navigate through, and which was also used for > drawing. One saw the results in "realtime" on the larger colour screen, all > very sharp. > > Does anyone here have any more info on these. I do recall this being a > *very* good system, but I can't find mention in my web searches. > > Thanks, > > Dennis > > "Come all ye roving minstrels > And together we will try > To raise the spirit of the Earth > And move the rolling Sky" > > . From rickb at bensene.com Thu Feb 6 10:41:00 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: interesting find In-Reply-To: <20030206101916.GA22136@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de> Message-ID: <000701c2cdfe$3d543030$0000fea9@camaro> I have a strong feeling that this is a ROM rather than RAM. The rods form the core of a transformer. A bunch of 'word' wires each have a few turns wrapped around the (probably a ferrite material) rod in a clockwise or counter-clockwise to encode a 1 or a 0. Another winding around the rod is the sense coil. When a current pulse passes through one of the word wires, a current is induced into the sense winding. The induced current in the sense winding is different, depending on which way the word wire was wrapped around the rod. The current pulse in the sense winding is amplified and discriminated (to 1 or 0), and presented as the output for that bit. A number of similar architectures were were commonly used for read-only microcode storage on computers and even calculators until the mid-1970's, when IC-based ROM began to appear. The HP 9100A/B calculators use a similar architecture, using wire bobbins instead of rods, for a microsequence store. The Wang 500, 600, and 700-series calculators also use a similar architecture, utilizing "U"-shaped ferrite structures as the transformer core, for microcode storage. Definitely a neat old relic. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators HP 9100B: http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/hp9100b.html Wang 720C: http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/wang720.html > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Thilo Schmidt > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:19 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: interesting find > > > Hi, > > Last week I found something which I think may be an ancient > NVRAM Module. Sadly I couldn't find any useful information on > the web, except on this page: > http://www.iser.uni-erlangen.de:8980/iser/servlet/Anzeigen45?i nventarnummer=I0105 It uses rather large magnetic rods to store data (4x25mm). The PCB is dated 1972 and it was probably used in a Nixdorf-Computer. It's called Staebchenspeicher in german (maybe rod-memory in english?). Does anyone have further information on this module? bye Thilo From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Feb 6 11:07:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: 6502 fans - the SBC-2 is about to have another run - order boards now! In-Reply-To: <20030206154506.56863.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <003301c2abb7$ae1a4fc0$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <3E42A408.30108.593E4265@localhost> > (Whoops... let's try that again with the editing *finished* this time... :) > For those who haven't been to http://65c02.tripod.com/ , the SBC-2 > is a single-board 6502 with the following onboard: > o 1 MHz 65c02 > o 32K of static RAM > o 32k of EEPROM > o 2 x 65C22 Versatile Interface Adapters (VIA) > o 1 x 65C51 Asynchronous Interface Adapter. > o Eight 16-byte address blocks decoded for I/O (3 used onboard) Well, a fairly simple standard configuration. When looking for a uptoday board, one should also considere the development boards from WDC. See http://www.westerndesigncenter.com/boards.html or better the datasheets at (PDF) http://www.westerndesigncenter.com/ftp.html The 4 boards are basicly all the same, except for the CPU. And best of all, of the on board XILINX PLD only 25% of all blocks are used, which gives plenty room to integrate a few functions without adding any hardware. And with IIRC 10 MHz, not to slow :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 6 12:36:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Strainge VAXserver 2000 card? In-Reply-To: <3E428FC1.3030600@srv.net> Message-ID: <20030206183318.38079.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kevin Handy wrote: > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > >All, > > > >A strange find today, in the pile of stuff-to-figure-out. > > > >See attached pictures. Its one of those little option cards that > >fit in the VS2000's "pizzabox" expansion unit. > > I'd guess it is the additional serial port card. > The complete kit would have a cable and a harmonica box, > to give an additional 8 serial lines. I have a MicroVAX 2000 with a DHT32. It has a 36-pin Centronics- style (Blue Ribbon) connector to go to the harmonica. The part of it that lives in the base does not resemble these pictures (there is also a daughter card that sandwiches among the Ethernet and the memory cards). I don't have my MV2K here to check the internal cable, and I don't recall if there's a 34-pin or a 36-pin or a 40-pin ribbon cable connecting the two halves of the DHT32. Could you photograph what's on the other end of the cable? That would probably shed some light... the card you shown is the line drivers for some other I/O component. -ethan From vance at neurotica.com Thu Feb 6 12:44:26 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <20030205105928.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > Motorola. > > Do they still make computers? > AFAIK they still produce embedded / industrial controll systems. Ah yes. I forgot about those. > > > Robotron - dead. > > I'm not familiar with them. > Robotron was the East German computer / electronics "company". Was > absorbed by Siemens. I see. Did they survive reunification before they were absorbed? > > > Norsk Data? > > I'm not familiar with them either. > I am not very familiar with them. They made some minicomputers in the > 70'es, mayby some other stuff too. I'll see what I can find out for myself. > > > Symbolics? Isn't there a reminder of Symbolics still alive? > > Really? Do they still sell machines? I would love to have a brand > > new LISP machine. > AFAIK they only provide support for existing systems. No new hardware. > Anyone ever seen Open Genera (Genera for DEC 3000 hardware)? I only know > that it exists. That would rock. > > > Texas Instruments. (Still produceing DSPs) > > Do they make machines? > If you count evaluatin kits as machines? ;-) > I was not sure if you meant "somehow in business" or still producing > machines. I don't think eval kits count. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Thu Feb 6 12:54:14 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: 10Base-FL Message-ID: I'm about to put some 10Base-FL in and I was wondering if someone could tell me what kind of fiber I should be looking for? Is it 50/125 MMF like GigE? Or is it 62.5/125 MMF like FDDI? Peace... Sridhar From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 6 12:54:35 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list In-Reply-To: <000201c2cb08$41ad79a0$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 02 February 2003 22:13 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list > > I've had issues with Easy CD Creator and non-ISO9660 files > (like ODS-2). Both Nero and CDRWin have worked flawlessly > for me, even when burning "overlaid" ISO9660/ODS-2 CDs. > > CDRWin is a free evaluation download www.goldenhawk.com. > Nero often comes free with a new CD-RW :-) Funny you should mention that - I'll probably be buying one v.soon.....4 speed burning is just too slow these days :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 6 12:54:47 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:36 2005 Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list In-Reply-To: <00b601c2cb3a$198f5240$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Stuart Johnson > Sent: 03 February 2003 04:10 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list > > I've used Nero to make backup copies of my "DEC" CDRoms and it has worked > extremely well. I am using a QUE 24x10x40 ATAPI drive on a PIII clone PC > running Windows XP pro and I haven't made a coaster yet. Nero has the > reputation of not being easy to use, but making a copy of one of these > CDRom's couldn't be much easier. My Nero version is 5.5.9.17. That's 2 votes for Nero then. I'll post an ISO sometime today for the list to play with - Infoserver Disk Access. > If you want some assistance in burning a limited number of these > CD's, I am available. Ta for the offer, but what I plan to do is put them on my FTP server for people to download and burn themselves. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From asholz at topinform.com Thu Feb 6 12:54:59 2003 From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Information, Dokumentation about the HP7974A 9-track tapedrive Message-ID: <3E410FB8.6090604@topinform.com> Hello all, I got an HP7974A 9-track Tape. Is there anyone on this list who has some documentation about this tape. Esp. I'm interested in servicing informations, schematics and manuals. As I already often noticed with other tapedrives it's drive capstan has turned to goo. Has someone hints or experiences in repairing the rubber of a tape capstan. Andreas From mhstein at canada.com Thu Feb 6 12:55:10 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: OT, but couldn't resist Message-ID: <01C2CCF3.7929D8A0@mse-d03> Couldn't resist sharing this: If Microsoft had been the first to invent books: 1. Before you can open the cover of your new book, you must obtain a book activation code by phoning Microsoft. 2. Sorry, only one person may ever read your book. 3. It's full of spelling mistakes and typos. 4. When you're reading your book, the words can mysteriously disappear. 5. Libraries, which are for sharing books, are illegal. 6. You must acknowledge you have read and understood the Book License Agreement Hype (BLAH) before you can read your book. 7. Microsoft has the right to enter your premises to conduct book inspections to make sure your book is being read in accordance with the BLAH. 8. The Book Users' Group General Alliance (BUGGA) calculates that the annual loss of revenues to Microsoft arising from BLAH violations in 2001 was $10.97 billion. 9. There are two versions of your book - the "Standard" and the "Pro" versions. In the standard version, those pages containing the most useful information have been stuck together. 10. Confidential information is inexplicably in bigger type that can be easily read by anyone glancing over your shoulder. From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 6 12:55:21 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Atari ST Help References: <20030203010936.33594.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000e01c2cd29$2aeb1d80$0b01010a@cvendel> Hi Al, Never heard of that particular memory board before, don't know where you can get a manual. For a HD you can go to www.myatari.com and buy a "ICD LINK" Adapter which will give your DMA/ASCI port full SCSI capabilities, also ask them about ExtenDOS Gold, its a drivers disk that will allow the TOS to recognize and use CD-ROM drives too, they also have a large selection of ST software on CDROM's Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Hartman" To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 8:09 PM Subject: Atari ST Help > I have my original Atari ST 512 still... > > It's been a trouper and I'd like to use it again.. > > So, I'm looking for help with the following: > > 1. It has an AERCO Easie-ST Ram upgrade board in it, > that is no longer recognized. This board will use 1mb > x 8 chips to take the system to 4mb (which is max for > this machine). > > I lost my manual, and it isn't working anymore. > > I know it's a long shot, but does anyone have the > manual for this, or can point me to where I can get a > RAM upgrade for this old machine? > > 2. I'd like to throw an 80mb SCSI External drive I > have on it, so I'm looking for a SCSI Adapter for an > ST. $100 + s/h for a new(?) one from one of the > remaining dealers is a bit steep... > > Does anyone know of a cheaper source for one, or have > an old Atari Drive with a bad mechanism I can buy to > salvage the adapter? > > Regards, > Al Hartman > > P.S.: I have a paper tray for an HP IIIp printer (but > not the actual mechanism to use it) if someone is > still looking for one. From writer at halfhill.com Thu Feb 6 12:55:33 2003 From: writer at halfhill.com (Tom R. Halfhill) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: looking for a COMPUTE! issue References: Message-ID: <3E415C92.CED9F79F@halfhill.com> Charles, Yes, I believe I have a complete set of COMPUTE! back issues from the time I was there (1982-88). They are packed away in boxes. I wouldn't be willing to part with an entire issue, but I might be persuaded to find and photocopy a specific article, if somebody really wants it badly. Knowing the date of the issue would be a big help. If the goal is to find a program, not necessarily an article, I suggest looking for it on the web first. There are several web sites and groups that keep archives of programs for old computers. This would save the trouble of typing in the program listing. Tom -- Tom R. Halfhill writer@halfhill.com http://www.halfhill.com Charles Brannon wrote: > > Thanks for the compliment and the chuckle. Yup, I was asking my old > friend Tom Halfhill. Nice to know we still have fans out there. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Arnott [mailto:jrasite@eoni.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:55 AM > To: charles@brannon.com > Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: RE: [Fwd: looking for a COMPUTE! issue]]] > > LOL... > > Cute kid! Lisa says thanks for the pic. > > Thanks Charles. > > Warmest regards. > > Jim > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Fwd: RE: [Fwd: looking for a COMPUTE! issue]] > Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:28:30 -0800 (PST) > From: Cameron Kaiser > To: jrasite@eoni.com > > > Well? > > ?!? You spoke to *Charles Brannon*?! He's your *nephew*?! > > Excuse me while I collect my jaw from the floor ... *click*. > > Next you're going to tell me that the "Tom" in his reply is Tom > Halfhill. :-P > > I'm after the entire magazine if I can get it (Sellam says he might have > a spare -- he's looking), but I will let you know ASAP. > > Appreciated (and rather impressed), > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- You've got to have a gimmick if your band sucks. -- Gary Giddens > ----------- > > . From mhstein at canada.com Thu Feb 6 12:55:42 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: 386 Message-ID: <01C2CD20.F0745AC0@mse-d03> --------------------Original Message--------------- Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:53:48 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: "bluegenie" Subject: 386 I am after some baby at 286/386/486 motherboards of size aprox 8 3/4 inches x 6 3/4 inches Can you help Graham Challis ---------------------------------------------------------- I have three, 8.7 x 6.9 inches, all with manuals (no memory or batteries): 1 x SER386-AS, 386SX33, 6x16bit ISA slots, max 16Mb 2 x UNI-386WB, 386DX40, 5x16bit+1x8bit ISA slots, max 128Mb (one with 387 coprocessor) Contact me off-list if you're interested. mike in Toronto, Canada mhstein at canada dot com From mhstein at canada.com Thu Feb 6 12:55:53 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: 386 Message-ID: <01C2CD22.8216A720@mse-d03> --------------------Original Message--------------- Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:53:48 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: "bluegenie" Subject: 386 I am after some baby at 286/386/486 motherboards of size aprox 8 3/4 inches x 6 3/4 inches Can you help Graham Challis ---------------------------------------------------------- I have three, 8.7 x 6.9 inches, all with manuals (no memory or batteries): 1 x SER386-AS, 386SX33, 6x16bit ISA slots, max 16Mb 2 x UNI-386WB, 386DX40, 5x16bit+1x8bit ISA slots, max 128Mb (one with 387 coprocessor) Contact me off-list if you're interested. mike in Toronto, Canada mhstein at canada dot com ---------------------------------------- PS: Silly me; hit "send" before putting mind in gear: Although there are no batteries (to prevent leakage damage) or memory on these boards in their packages, I can certainly supply both if needed, as well as pretty well any I/O cards you might need. From dan.stanger at ieee.org Thu Feb 6 12:56:04 2003 From: dan.stanger at ieee.org (Dan Stanger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: FS: Linus write top computer Message-ID: <3E416E8E.8E0E55A8@ieee.org> It is complete with docs and carrying case. Please make a offer +shipping from Denver, CO 80222. Thanks, Dan Stanger From sieler at allegro.com Thu Feb 6 12:56:13 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Same seller, more HP stuff on ebay In-Reply-To: <001d01c2ccc4$d0b340e0$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3E4144AC.1863.B9BED87@localhost> Re: > The same seller that didn't sell his HP2000 system on ebay (and relisted > it), is also auctioning separately an HP3030 tape drive that appears to be > in great condition cosmetically. Nice piece of history! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3400167260&category=1479 Is that the drive HP got when they bought some tape drive company in the 60s? (I can't remember the company name, but I remember seeing a Scientific American ad in the 1960s for a tape company touting that they were now an HP division.) Like just about every other company they bought, they killed it, and it wasn't too many years later that they had to go outside the company to OEM the HP 7976 (6250 BPI) from Storage Tech (?) (even then, they bought the wrong one... the Qualex drive was faster and (apparently) more reliable :) -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From vance at neurotica.com Thu Feb 6 12:56:23 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: VCF ([CC] was: [CC] Re: [CC] Geting totaly OT/Admin: [CC] tags In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How old *are* you anyway? Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > The VCF is tame compared to here. I get one or two complaints at > > every VCF from one (usually crotchety old) nerd. The whining here > > is on a level that is beyond belief. > > I'm certainly the most crotchety old nerd there, and I don't recall having > any cause to complain last time. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vance at neurotica.com Thu Feb 6 12:56:35 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: <200302052200.h15M0b6i026134@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > I was able to find a couple. I have the SC and HSJ controllers, but the > CIPCAs are hard to find at a low price. How much are going price on CIPCA's? I'd *love* to find a couple of CIPCA's at a reasonable price. Peace... Sridhar From mailsend at juno.com Thu Feb 6 12:56:45 2003 From: mailsend at juno.com (mailsend@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Your Word 4.0 for Mac disks? Message-ID: <20030206.035549.-907683.0.mailsend@juno.com> "Lawrence LeMay" , lemay@cs.umn.edu SUBJECT: Your Word 4.0 for Mac disks? Dear Mr. LeMay, Do you still have the Word 4.0 for Mac available? We read your posting from 2001, May, at this URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2002-May/000582.html How many bucks do you want for it? We need just one set, please. We already own Word 3.0 for Mac and need this for compatibility to receive a few documents from others for study. Thank you very much. A student Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com From vance at neurotica.com Thu Feb 6 12:56:55 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Strainge VAXserver 2000 card? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA27@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: Uh, post a URL for the pictures. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > All, > > A strange find today, in the pile of stuff-to-figure-out. > > See attached pictures. Its one of those little option cards that > fit in the VS2000's "pizzabox" expansion unit. I have two of these > machines, both have the box. One of the machines is a VAXserver > 2000 (!), and that one had this card. One single flatcable going > to the machine's mainboard (connector on the side of the mainboard, > above the power supply) and it has the usual DEC 3-row connector > on the outside faceplate. > > What's this? Serial line expander of some sort? The X.25 thing I > heard about? > > Larger pictures available at 1600x1280 and 1280x1024. > > Cheers, > Fred > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of VS2000-OPT-1_SM.JPG] > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of VS2000-OPT-2_SM.JPG] From RCTech at cnri.us Thu Feb 6 12:57:06 2003 From: RCTech at cnri.us (RCTech) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is collecting/storing them? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030206110633.00b91650@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> HP: Don't trash that old computer By Ian Fried Staff Writer, CNET News.com February 5, 2003, 5:10 PM PT Hewlett-Packard is hoping a little green will help make computer owners recycle more of their old tech gear. The computer maker is testing a program that gives those who recycle their old computers, monitors, printers or other gear a coupon worth up to $50 for any purchase of $60 or more on HP's online store. Under a program announced nearly two years ago, HP charges anywhere from $17 to $31 to recycle products. The company says the coupon will offset the amount customers must pay for the service, which ensures none of the gear ends up in landfills. The need for recycling is growing, particularly as nonprofit agencies become less willing to accept older gear, said Renee St. Denis, manager of HP's recycling effort. The problem of what to do with all this aging equipment has become a major issue facing the tech industry. "Now there is nobody to use it, and (charities) are coming to understand there is a cost to disposing of it properly," St. Denis said in an interview. With the promotion--which runs through April 30--HP hopes to find out whether a financial incentive will boost the number of products being recycled. The company said it already receives thousands of products each year, but would not be more specific on the amount. "We thought we'd give this a shot; then we'll evaluate how to move forward," St. Denis said. Those who return PCs, scanners, handhelds or inkjet printers will receive $20, while those who return monitors and laser printers will receive $30 coupons. A PC with a monitor fetches $50. While most of the products HP gets back are obsolete, the company does keep a list of what some charities are looking for and will donate any gear that meets the charities' minimum standards. "For the most part what we get in here is pretty darn old," St. Denis said. HP's recycling program accepts its gear as well as similar products made by competitors. "We don't want toasters, but we'll take other people's printers," St. Denis said. From nerdware at ctgonline.org Thu Feb 6 12:57:16 2003 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (nerdware@ctgonline.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Reply to: OT: PowerBook G3 parts Message-ID: <200302061646.h16GkwG16186@garcon.ctgonline.org> Yep. Go to www.powerbookguy.com and browse his site. I bought several things from him when I was refurbishing the Wallstreet I was given, and he was very friendly and helpful. Paul ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS: Hello, I just got a bronze keyboard (Lombard) G3 powerbook, sans cdrom drive, battery, and AC adapter. Does anyone have parts for this machine or know of a good source to get them from? - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 6 12:58:35 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: 10Base-FL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030206185552.60052.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I'm about to put some 10Base-FL in and I was wondering if someone could > tell me what kind of fiber I should be looking for? Is it 50/125 MMF > like > GigE? Or is it 62.5/125 MMF like FDDI? AFAIK, you want 62.5/125 MultiMode... same as FDDI, but typically with ST ends (bayonet style). The FDDI stuff I've seen has SC ends (square press and latch fittings). I have a bit of it (including 50m in my wall connecting the 2nd floor and basement... just for kicks). -ethan From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 6 12:58:58 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: [OT] demime (was RE: Strainge VAXserver 2000 card?) In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA28@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA28@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <32811.64.169.63.74.1044557133.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > And thanks to some fucked-up demime thing, pics can be found here: ??? demime was doing *exactly* what it was supposed to do. It is a Good Thing (tm). Many of us don't want attachments. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Feb 6 13:03:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: References: <20030205105928.E1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3E42BF4D.27466.59A8CBC5@localhost> > > > > Robotron - dead. > > > I'm not familiar with them. > > Robotron was the East German computer / electronics "company". Was > > absorbed by Siemens. > I see. Did they survive reunification before they were absorbed? :)) Otherwise they would not have been absorben ... Or could you have imagined a western company buying one in Eastern Germany ... or wherever else in the East? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Feb 6 13:15:01 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: [OT] demime (was RE: Strainge VAXserver 2000 card?) In-Reply-To: <32811.64.169.63.74.1044557133.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA28@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <32811.64.169.63.74.1044557133.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20030206191259.GA551369@uiuc.edu> Eric Smith said: > > And thanks to some fucked-up demime thing, pics can be found here: > > demime was doing *exactly* what it was supposed to do. It is a > Good Thing (tm). Many of us don't want attachments. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And CERTAINLY not from a mailing list... - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Feb 6 13:22:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: [OT] demime (was RE: Strainge VAXserver 2000 card?) In-Reply-To: <32811.64.169.63.74.1044557133.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA28@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3E42C3BD.2398.59BA207A@localhost> > > And thanks to some fucked-up demime thing, pics can be found here: > demime was doing *exactly* what it was supposed to do. It is a > Good Thing (tm). Many of us don't want attachments. Oh yes, seeing the 1.1meg pictures I can just add a Me2. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Thu Feb 6 14:23:00 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Information, Dokumentation about the HP7974A 9-track tapedrive In-Reply-To: <3E410FB8.6090604@topinform.com> References: <3E410FB8.6090604@topinform.com> Message-ID: <63603.213.250.80.204.1044562845.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Andreas Holz said: > Hello all, > > I got an HP7974A 9-track Tape. Is there anyone on this list who has some > documentation about this tape. Esp. I'm interested in servicing > informations, schematics and manuals. I've got one as well. No schematics or service manuals, just the plain users manual, okay had to look: "The HP 7974A Magnetic Tape Subsystem Operator's Manual". It does have the test numbers and error codes but it's a bit on the thin side. -- jht From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 6 14:27:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Rainbow Enthusiasts Message-ID: <00cf01c2ce1d$a553c820$033310ac@kwcorp.com> For those who have the Rainbow bug... Jeff Armstrong is putting his Rainbow site up again. The URL is http://www.classiccmp.org/rainbow Right now there is just an annoucement page, the real content should be there sometime saturday Enjoy! Jay West From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 6 15:01:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: DEC CIPCA (was Re: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested) In-Reply-To: References: <200302052200.h15M0b6i026134@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <2424.4.20.168.139.1044565112.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sridhar wrote: > How much are going price on CIPCA's? Expen$ive! I bought two used CIPCA-AA sets last year, but have since found that I probably can't use them for what I'd intended. They're potentially available for trade, but since they were expensive I'd expect something fairly nice in exchange. There are two CIPCA variants. The CIPCA-BA has one EISA and one PCI card; the CIPCA-AA has two PCI cards. Only the common PCI card ("port module") actually uses the bus. The other card ("link module", PCI or EISA) just uses a slot for power. I did NOT get the transition cable (DEC P/N 17-03427-01) with them, and resellers want a lot of money for it. The link module has a D-shell connector with four coax connectors (out of five positions), sort of like some monitor connectors on workstations. Without the DEC transition cable, it would be necessary to build a custom cable assembly between the D-connector and four TNC connectors. I have not yet located a source for mating D-connectors. From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Thu Feb 6 15:03:01 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: HP-85 Error 74 stall Message-ID: Hi, I am the proud new owner of an HP 85. Printer belts a little ratty but works fine. However when I attempted to Rew/Load/Cat any of the tapes I received with it I got a stall error. I cleaned the capstan which is intact, and did not fall apart, as I understand they tend to do. The tape motor spins fine when I pressed the tape sensor button inside and hit Rew. Finally after a bunch of attempts the tapes began to spin and I could perform the Load, Cat and Ctape operations. I still seem to get fairly frequent stall errors however. Do you think I need to replace the capstan? Can you get them (or the printer belts)anywhere, or should I use the silicon aquarium tube method mentioned in the archives? Any other thoughts appreciated. Eventually hope to hook it up to a floopy drive but need to find a mass storage rom. Also do you know of any good resources on the web for the 80 series as I haven't found a whole lot. Thanks, RH From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 6 15:08:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: HP-85 Error 74 stall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3045.4.20.168.139.1044565528.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> RH writes about an HP-85. > Eventually hope to hook it up to a floopy drive Are you sure the HP-85 supports floopy drives? Not many machines do. :-) Reminds me of the classified ad for a "sloppy disk drive" that Byte reprinted many years ago. Someone commented that the hole in the wall attested to the breakthrough in technology. From dittman at dittman.net Thu Feb 6 15:46:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: DEC CIPCA (was Re: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info In-Reply-To: <2424.4.20.168.139.1044565112.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 06, 2003 12:58:32 PM Message-ID: <200302062143.h16Lh91M003833@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Expen$ive! I bought two used CIPCA-AA sets last year, but have since > found that I probably can't use them for what I'd intended. They're > potentially available for trade, but since they were expensive I'd > expect something fairly nice in exchange. I just wish I had something you'd want to trade. > I did NOT get the transition cable (DEC P/N 17-03427-01) with them, and > resellers want a lot of money for it. The link module has a D-shell > connector with four coax connectors (out of five positions), sort of like > some monitor connectors on workstations. Without the DEC transition > cable, it would be necessary to build a custom cable assembly between > the D-connector and four TNC connectors. I have not yet located a source > for mating D-connectors. I've got the SC, HSJ, and even all these cables. I'm just waiting to find a set of CIPCAs. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Feb 6 16:00:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: HP-85 Error 74 stall In-Reply-To: <3045.4.20.168.139.1044565528.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3045.4.20.168.139.1044565528.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <44645.130.76.32.21.1044568657.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Sure, the HP-85 supports floppy drives. I have a 9121 (dual 3.5" drive) and a dual 5.25" drives that work fine with my HP-85. You will need a Mass Storage ROM and an HP-IB interface but they work just fine. The HP-85B have the MS ROM built-in. The 85B also has the capability of a built-in Electronic Disc, if you add RAM cartridges. > RH writes about an HP-85. >> Eventually hope to hook it up to a floopy drive > > Are you sure the HP-85 supports floopy drives? > Not many machines do. :-) > > Reminds me of the classified ad for a "sloppy disk drive" > that Byte reprinted many years ago. Someone commented > that the hole in the wall attested to the breakthrough > in technology. From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Feb 6 16:04:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: HP-85 Error 74 stall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40366.130.76.32.21.1044568881.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> I have fixed a lot of stall problems by just working with connections. I believe stall is just what it suggests. Command sent to turn motor but it won't turn. Could be mechanical blockage or contacts or lack of power. I have fixed stall conditions by just reseating the connections. An example that shows this is if you just disconnect the power connector to the disk drive (two pin connection), you get a stall. After repairing these drives, I have occasionally forgetten to make that connection and get the stall. Hope this helps. > Hi, > > I am the proud new owner of an HP 85. Printer belts a little ratty but > works fine. > > However when I attempted to Rew/Load/Cat any of the tapes I received > with it I got a stall error. > > I cleaned the capstan which is intact, and did not fall apart, as I > understand they tend to do. The tape motor spins fine when I pressed > the tape sensor button inside and hit Rew. > > Finally after a bunch of attempts the tapes began to spin and I could > perform the Load, Cat and Ctape operations. I still seem to get fairly > frequent stall errors however. Do you think I need to replace the > capstan? Can you get them (or the printer belts)anywhere, or should I > use the silicon aquarium tube method mentioned in the archives? Any > other thoughts appreciated. > > Eventually hope to hook it up to a floopy drive but need to find a mass > storage rom. > > Also do you know of any good resources on the web for the 80 series as I > haven't found a whole lot. > > Thanks, > > RH From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 6 16:47:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: <10302060801.ZM15623@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "pete@dunnington.u-net.com" at Feb 6, 3 08:01:29 am Message-ID: > > I've had far too many problems with the normal moulded cables -- > things > > like marginally-rated cable (certainly not 6A), earth not properly > > connected, live/neutral reversed, no strain relief, and so on that I > now > > refuse to use them (and am grdually replacing all the ones here). > > I've rarely had any problem, but then I'm generally reusing cables > sthat have been tested, and tend not to exceed the ratings. I don't see how you can do a proper test without a visual inspection of the connections... And I've yet to see a moulded connector that provides a proper strain-relief for the cable. > > What is the connector like the normal 'kettle plug' with round pins? > I've > > only ever seen it in the chassis socket/cable plug configuration. > > Dunno -- that might be one of the Bulgin range? Or do you mean one in No. The cable mounted section looks like a normal 'cold condition' _socket_, but there are 3 round pins sticking out of the face of it (where the socket holes would be). The chassis part looks like the normal plug (recessed into the panel, etc) with 3 holes in it in place of the normal plug pins. I've seen it used on some German stuff (some kind of mains controller thingy). I don't think it was a custom connector. It may well be fairly old, though > which the housing also looks a bit like three cylinders welded > together, instead of a rectangular block with corners cut off? That's > also an IEC connector, rated 2.5A. I've seen a couple of laptop power > suplies with those. No, certainly not that one, and not any of the normal Bulgin connectors. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 6 16:48:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: from "Doug Jackson" at Feb 6, 3 01:39:47 pm Message-ID: > Unfortunately, my experience in repairing the samsung TV's is that you > *start* by replacing about AUS $50 worth of power supply components, then > you see what else failed. Doesn't that apply to any SMPSU that's blown up. You get to replace most of the parts on the primary side, and if you miss one, or don't find the fault in some other section they all fail again at switch-on. Yes, I do know to limit the current (the series lightbulb is useful here...)_ but even so it's not uncommon for a lot of expensive new silicon to fail at the first power-on. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 6 16:48:10 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Things FS (dec, ncd, sun, chips), and Info requested In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Feb 5, 3 10:10:40 pm Message-ID: > > Actually, a small number of small custom-wound transformers. > > "Ick." (from a difficulty to reverse-engineer standpoint). I'm not fond > of winding transformers. It's surely preferable to attempting to make custom chips at home :-)... -tony From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Feb 6 16:58:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: I saw you post 12-17-02 about Intel 1602 Message-ID: <200302062254.OAA06509@clulw009.amd.com> Hi One should note that the programming of the A parts is different than the non-A parts. The manual shown has the specs for the non-A parts ( these are really rare ). Most are either 1708A, 8708A or 4708A parts that are found now days. Signal wise, I believe that the non-A and A parts are similar. They made very few of the non-A parts. Dwight >From: "Vettore Massimo MARPD EDP" > >You could find information on Intel 8702A at the IMSAI web site >http://www.imsai.net/support/support.htm >look at Intel 8080 Microcomputer Systems User's Manual part 2 >or straight >http://www.imsai.net/support/device_specs/Intel8080Manual-2.pdf >go to page 56 > >Regards >Max > >----- Original Message ----- >Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 00:51:50 -0600 >From: Alex Welti >Subject: I saw you post 12-17-02 about Intel 1602 >To: cctech@classiccmp.org >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >>I have been handed down a room full of electronics - my >>brother-in-law's father passed away - and I am the nearest relative who >>has a career in electronics, so... I am spending my evenings going >>through and identifing parts, most of which I am familiar with and have >>datasheets on. However, I can't find anything on these i C8702A. A >>web search brought me to your posting. I am hoping you have a datasheet >>or know where I should go to find one. >> >>Thanks, >>Alex From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Feb 6 17:10:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Columbia -- Computers In-Reply-To: <15621.207.55.102.77.1044345551.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <001201c2caed$f08a4a90$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <3E429500.21377.18651177@localhost> Avoided the OT but the shuttle (earlier one?) also used a modified Grid laptop. http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/dsh/artifacts/GC- PayloadComputer.htm Lawrence On 3 Feb 2003, , Eric Smith wrote: > > I think they are on-topic. We've got four Ibm 360's > > onboard. > > No, they have five AP-101S General Purpose Computers on > board. The AP-101S and the earlier AP-101B are derived from > the computer used in the F-15 fighter. The architecture > actually quite a bit different from that of the System/360, > though there are similarities. The System/360 had sixteen > 32-bit general registers, while the AP-101 has two separate > sets of eight registers. The System/360 could address > sixteen megabytes, but the AP-101 can only address one > megabyte, and it is awkward to address more than 256 Kbytes. > > But the AP-101B is over ten years old, and I think *some* of > the AP-101S computers are, so they're on-topic. > > Space Shuttle issues other than the computers are off-topic. > > Does anyone have the manuals for HAL/S, the language used > for the AP-101 software? There's some info on it at: > http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/computers/Appe > ndix-II.html lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Feb 6 17:10:34 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <3E41744D.9871.549BD1A2@localhost> References: Message-ID: <3E429500.11331.186511A5@localhost> Along the same lines; 7 school-kids on a ski outing were killed by an avalanche in the Canadian rockies the same day. CBC-TV jumped all over the Columbia event and ran continuous coverage of the Columbia relegating the avalanche victims to regular news coverage. I'm sure the parents and relatives of these kids considered the Columbia secondary and were hurt when so little coverage was done in Canada due to the Columbia media event. Belatedly, undoubtably responding to criticism, there has been much more follow- up coverage, and much crocodile tears by the media. Along similar lines a local school class' entry in a contest was rejected by the Chicago organizer in response to Canadian government positions on Iraq. The new McCarthyism. And of course there was only local coverage of it by the spin-doctored media. I agree with Hans. The original purpose of the news- media was to provide news, not spin-doctored media spectaculars, however unfortunate the Columbia event was. Lawrence On 5 Feb 2003, , Hans Franke wrote: > > > 7 people died. 7 people die all the time. These 7 > > > happened to be astronauts. Big deal. > > > Troll. > > I tried to stay off the Columbia thread, but the Troll > argument doesn't realy fit. The very same day 40 people died > in a train crash in Simbabwe and 42 as a house exploded in > Lagos (Nigeria, Africa). So are they not woth beeing > mentioned, just because they didn't die in a multi billion > dollar environment ? > > Sorry, I don't want to degrade any of the Columbia > passengers, but our news business got a huge problem. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Feb 6 17:10:43 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: OT/Admin: tags In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204142049.025e3ad0@mail.30below.com> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE0C@mwsrv04.microwalt.n l> Message-ID: <3E429500.7043.18651203@localhost> On 4 Feb 2003, , Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Fred N. van Kempen may have mentioned > these words: > > >Although this has come up a few times already, I am going > >to bring it up again. Come kick my butt if you don't like > >it :) > > Awrighty -- I got my Size 9.5(US) Lacrosse Icemans on right > now... ;-) > > Wham. Wham. Wham. Wham. Wham. > -- Ascii representation of the sound of a dead > horse getting > beaten once again... :-( > Heh, heh, your kid's got you out skating , eh ? Just watch the corners and butt ends of lacrosse sticks. And kick that horse off the ice ! Only human animals allowed on the rink. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Feb 6 17:10:53 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow 100 website In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E429500.28080.186511DB@localhost> Great Jeff !! It will be nice to see the old DEC Rainbow site up again. And hopefully with access to the Pikes Peak Rainbow BBS archives. I have some docs gleaned from various sources and will forward them to you when it's up. Lawrence On 6 Feb 2003, , Jeffrey Armstrong wrote: > Hey everyone, I just wanted to announce thta I will be > opening a new Rainbow 100 website on Saturday, Feb 8. The > site is located at: > > http://www.classiccmp.org/rainbow > > Right now, all that is there is an announcement. I hope > everyone will take a moment top visit once it's open. > > I haven't been keeping up with everything in the Rainbow > commumnity. I noticed that all the schematics have been > posted on the Update (ftp.update.uu.se) archives. Who took > the time to do this? I just wanted to thank them. Anyway, > visit the page if you get a chance! Thanks! > > -Jeff > > jba@sdf.lonestar.org > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Feb 6 17:11:04 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E429500.31218.1865124E@localhost> Well since I heat my large old house with electicity and also have an electric range, as well as the computers, large TV and a bunch of audio equipment, I could likely throw in a couple of grow lights with barely a glitch in my power usage. Maybe I should rent out space to a grower to cover some of the hydro bills I've been getting this winter in the subzero temperatures of central Manitoba. Hell, birds (the ones that don't fly south) are hovering above my place just to keep warm. Lawrence On 5 Feb 2003, , chris wrote: > > They restricted the use of HEAT SENSORS but they did not > > restrict the > >police from using estimates of exceesive power usage by the > >power companies. That's how they "caught" Zane. The > >thermal imaging sensors would have probably shown that the > >source was a computer and not growing plants. BTW they also > >use both technologies for detecking stills built inside of > >homes. > > Does this open up the market to sell used big iron to drug > dealers? This way they can justify their extra power usage > and heat output. > > "No officer, I don't grow pot... its just my refridgerator > sized computer, pay no attention to the plants behind the > curtain" > > -chris > lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Feb 6 17:11:14 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Something for all you PS/2 fans In-Reply-To: References: <3E3E910A.2070906@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E429500.17992.18651271@localhost> I wanted one of the Chit-Chat Piper (?) MCA sound cards for the longest time but they were always too prohibitively expensive for me. Well over $200 IIRC. Have yet to see one offered on EPay. I thought I had read on the PS/2 newsgroup that they had gone out of production. They are now offering them for $129 which isn't a bad price but as the usual frugal collector I find it hard to justify when I can buy a whole non-MCA machine including sound card and CDRom for that price. Maybe I could trade one of my 8580s for one. :^) Shipping might be a bit pricey tho. Likely about 10 times the cost in your local thrift. Lawrence On 3 Feb 2003, , vance@neurotica.com wrote: > Try http://www.chipchat.com/. You can still buy a 16-bit > sound card with 32-voice MIDI for MCA brand new for a > reasonable price. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > > Any sound boards in there (which happen *not* to be > > M/ACPA)? - Shipping a complete system to Germany will > > certainly be expensive, but I've been looking for a > > soundboard to run with WinNT on a PS/2 for ages... > > > > vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > Anyone want PS/2 Mod 95's? Apparently some of them have > > > Type-IV (! -- expensive) complexes. > > > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > -- > > Andreas Freiherr > > Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany > > http://www.vishay.com lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Feb 6 17:11:26 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Something for all you PS/2 fans In-Reply-To: References: <200302020924160013.4A24B180@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3E429500.23900.1865114A@localhost> On 2 Feb 2003, , vance@neurotica.com wrote: > Oops. I forgot the URL. Stupid me. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230510495 > 5&category=11215 > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Bruce Lane wrote: > > > Good morning, > > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > > > On 02-Feb-03 at 09:43 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > > >Anyone want PS/2 Mod 95's? Apparently some of them have > > >Type-IV (! -- expensive) complexes. > > > > Hmmmm! I may well be interested. Where might these > > wondrous machines be found? > > > > Thanks much. > > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > > Blue Feather Technologies -- > > http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) > > since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life > > when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to > > what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) Arrrgghhh. The winner got the 12 of them for $1 apiece. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 6 17:45:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: WD Development boards (was Re: 6502 fans - the SBC-2 is about to have another run - order boards now!) In-Reply-To: <3E42A408.30108.593E4265@localhost> Message-ID: <20030206234225.20176.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans Franke wrote: > > (Whoops... let's try that again with the editing *finished* this > time... > > :) > > > For those who haven't been to http://65c02.tripod.com/ , the SBC-2 > > is a single-board 6502... > > Well, a fairly simple standard configuration. Simple and inexpensive. > When looking for a uptoday board, one should also considere the > development boards from WDC. Very nice. Any idea how much they cost? (Their link is broken). If I were doing a one-off and my time were *much* more important than the hardware cost, those products look sweet. Much of what I do, however, is for the joy of it, and to be cash-stingy and time-lavish, I don't know that I'll ever use one of those. Hmm... I wonder if there's enough room on those to implement a PDP-8 peripheral? ;-) -ethan From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Feb 6 18:06:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: 10Base-FL In-Reply-To: vance@neurotica.com "10Base-FL" (Feb 5, 5:38) References: Message-ID: <10302070003.ZM16322@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 5, 5:38, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I'm about to put some 10Base-FL in and I was wondering if someone could > tell me what kind of fiber I should be looking for? Is it 50/125 MMF like > GigE? Or is it 62.5/125 MMF like FDDI? It will work fine with either. In theory, you get slightly higher coupling losses with 50/125 but can run slightly longer lengths; in practice it makes little difference. My advice is to stick to one kind or the other for everything. York Uni has always used 50/125 for everything (from the original FDDI and FOIRL through ATM and now 100baseFX and 1000baseSX) -- and we're smiling now that it's come back into vogue. BTW, stick to ST connectors where you can. SMAs suck big time, and couplers for STs are expensive. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Feb 6 18:10:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable" (Feb 6, 22:33) References: Message-ID: <10302070008.ZM16334@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 6, 22:33, Tony Duell wrote: > I don't see how you can do a proper test without a visual inspection of > the connections... And I've yet to see a moulded connector that provides > a proper strain-relief for the cable. A good PAT tester will check at a sensible current (though admittedly a lot only check earth continuity at a proper current). As for strain releif, well you're not supposed to swing the equipment by the power cable, Tony! > > > What is the connector like the normal 'kettle plug' with round pins? > The cable mounted section looks like a normal 'cold condition' _socket_, > but there are 3 round pins sticking out of the face of it (where the > socket holes would be). The chassis part looks like the normal plug > (recessed into the panel, etc) with 3 holes in it in place of the normal > plug pins. I've a feeling I've seen this used somewhere -- but not recently, and I can't think where :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 6 18:35:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: HP-85 Error 74 stall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030206193030.12cfb818@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The HP-85 tape problems have been covered numerous times in this and other mailing lists. You should search the archives for more details but briefly there are three serious problems with the HP-85s. 1) the rubber drive belts in the tapes rot and fail to turn the tape reels. This can cause the STALL error message. 2) The media falls off the tape and the drive sees the clear tape and thinks that it's reached the end of the tape and reports and EOT error. 3) The "rubber" drive wheel in the drive gets soft and gooy with age and fails to drive the drive wheel in the tape cartridge. These can also cause a STALL error. Joe At 04:03 PM 2/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >I am the proud new owner of an HP 85. Printer belts a little ratty but works >fine. > >However when I attempted to Rew/Load/Cat any of the tapes I received with it >I got a stall error. > >I cleaned the capstan which is intact, and did not fall apart, as I >understand they tend to do. The tape motor spins fine when I pressed the >tape sensor button inside and hit Rew. > >Finally after a bunch of attempts the tapes began to spin and I could >perform the Load, Cat and Ctape operations. I still seem to get fairly >frequent stall errors however. Do you think I need to replace the capstan? >Can you get them (or the printer belts)anywhere, or should I use the silicon >aquarium tube method mentioned in the archives? Any other thoughts >appreciated. > >Eventually hope to hook it up to a floopy drive but need to find a mass >storage rom. > >Also do you know of any good resources on the web for the 80 series as I >haven't found a whole lot. > >Thanks, > >RH From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 6 18:35:28 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: HP-85 Error 74 stall In-Reply-To: <3045.4.20.168.139.1044565528.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030206193514.12cfb778@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:05 PM 2/6/03 -0800, you wrote: >RH writes about an HP-85. >> Eventually hope to hook it up to a floopy drive > >Are you sure the HP-85 supports floopy drives? >Not many machines do. :-) It depends on the model, the A model will support some drives including the 9121 and 82901 and the B will support additional drives since it has some of the extension ROMs built in. The EMS ROM supports even more drives. Sorry but the details are fuzzy since I haven't played with 85s in a while. Joe > >Reminds me of the classified ad for a "sloppy disk drive" >that Byte reprinted many years ago. Someone commented >that the hole in the wall attested to the breakthrough >in technology. From acme at ao.net Thu Feb 6 18:39:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: OT: File compression Message-ID: <200302070036.TAA01904@eola.ao.net> Can anyone suggest a good book on file compression? Or, does anyone know where I can find C source for a simple file compression routine? The program needs to be portable to Linux, MS-DOS, CP/M and CP/M-86. (I am capable of making changes in the code to accomodate different compilers) Of course, there are compression routines which run under each of these OSs, but I need to run the same routine under all four OSs. TIA for any help -- Glen 0/0 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 6 18:52:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: FS: Acorn System I Microcontroller Kit (Cambridge, UK) Message-ID: <20030207004930.96789.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Seen on cam.misc usenet group (Cambridge, UK) - I have no connection with the seller, so email them directly if interested. cheers Jules ======= From: Alan Bain (afrb2@statslab.cam.ac.uk) Subject: FS: Acorn System I Microcontroller Kit Newsgroups: ucam.adverts.forsale.computer, ucam.societies.cucps, cam.misc Date: 2003-02-06 02:58:03 PST ACORN system I 6502 Microcontroller kit as shipped from Acorn in a box full of packing beads. Never assembled, so time to get out your glue can and build it yourself. Kit contains 1 PCB (Issue 3 200000) Dates from 1980 1 Bag of components 1 Bag of ICs (incl SY6502 and the hard to find INS8154D, you were supposed to supply the others yourself -- presumably desoldered from dead boards) and a load of IC sockets. 1 Schematic Diagram I can almost certainly also locate a copy of the construction manual writen from Acorn's Market Square Address, most likely an original! Reasonable Offers (maybe around 40 pounds but no reasonable offer refused)? Alan Bain Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jplist at kiwigeek.com Thu Feb 6 18:54:01 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: OT: File compression In-Reply-To: <200302070036.TAA01904@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 acme@ao.net wrote: > Or, does anyone know where I can find C source for a simple file compression > routine? The program needs to be portable to Linux, MS-DOS, CP/M and > CP/M-86. (I am capable of making changes in the code to accomodate different > compilers) I'd wander around looking at pre-existing open source implementations - they're already portable and if you want to fiddle with them, you can. If you head on over to FreshMeat (www.freshmeat.net) you can find gzip, zip and bzip2 - all of these have available source for your viewing pleasure. Enjoy; JP From CCTalk at catcorner.org Thu Feb 6 19:10:00 2003 From: CCTalk at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:37 2005 Subject: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B827@308server.308dole.com> Any good sources of MFM or RLL drives. This would be for a Tandy 6000 running Xenix. I'm looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity). Thanks, Kelly From Technoid at 30below.com Thu Feb 6 19:53:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: interesting find In-Reply-To: <000701c2cdfe$3d543030$0000fea9@camaro> Message-ID: <002e01c2ce4b$67b8d270$6401a8c0@benchbox> I've only seen two types of cores. Though I'm sure there are many others as I've never had a machine of my own which used it. The Rods you speak of may be RUBY? Hold it up to shine light through them. The ruby cores look mighty pretty. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rick Bensene Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:38 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: interesting find I have a strong feeling that this is a ROM rather than RAM. The rods form the core of a transformer. A bunch of 'word' wires each have a few turns wrapped around the (probably a ferrite material) rod in a clockwise or counter-clockwise to encode a 1 or a 0. Another winding around the rod is the sense coil. When a current pulse passes through one of the word wires, a current is induced into the sense winding. The induced current in the sense winding is different, depending on which way the word wire was wrapped around the rod. The current pulse in the sense winding is amplified and discriminated (to 1 or 0), and presented as the output for that bit. A number of similar architectures were were commonly used for read-only microcode storage on computers and even calculators until the mid-1970's, when IC-based ROM began to appear. The HP 9100A/B calculators use a similar architecture, using wire bobbins instead of rods, for a microsequence store. The Wang 500, 600, and 700-series calculators also use a similar architecture, utilizing "U"-shaped ferrite structures as the transformer core, for microcode storage. Definitely a neat old relic. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators HP 9100B: http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/hp9100b.html Wang 720C: http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/wang720.html > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Thilo Schmidt > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:19 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: interesting find > > > Hi, > > Last week I found something which I think may be an ancient > NVRAM Module. Sadly I couldn't find any useful information on > the web, except on this page: > http://www.iser.uni-erlangen.de:8980/iser/servlet/Anzeigen45?i nventarnummer=I0105 It uses rather large magnetic rods to store data (4x25mm). The PCB is dated 1972 and it was probably used in a Nixdorf-Computer. It's called Staebchenspeicher in german (maybe rod-memory in english?). Does anyone have further information on this module? bye Thilo From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Thu Feb 6 20:07:00 2003 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030206204449.00ab5008@66.67.226.217> I was sitting at home reading my latest copy of Mouser (component catalog) and I came across LCD GUI touch screen kits and Zilog Z80 kits with USB, Serial and 100Mbit Ethernet. My head being screwed up from pain killers (on worker's comp from slipping on ice at a client's), tried to put 2+5 together to get 4 and gave me an expensive (maybe not) idea. Palms and Visors and the like are really small and great for many tasks, but what if I could take a similar processor, say a Dragonball, an ARM or the even an older one (maybe even a mobile RISC-based CPU - now that would be cool) and link them into a slightly larger and more useful hand-held that has USB, Serial and Ethernet with AD and DC capabilities and toss it into a steel box with rubber seals and rubber/knurled steel outsides and a thin plastic piece covering the display with a metal lock-back cover. I know there are knock-off covers out there for the Visor and the Palm that are sold separately, but the palm doesn't have built in USB or Ethernet or Serial, you are stuck with a bulky add-on or a cradle. What If someone could get around that? Anyone have some thoughts to it? Next leap into less than sanity... I actually considered sitting down and getting a prototype board from another mail order company the other day to build my own AT P200MMX motherboard with PC100/133 SD-RAM support, AGPx and ISA/PCI. Now here's where the idea for this would require the prototype board: built in USB and Ethernet and possibly SCSI on a standard AT board in as small a size as possible while enabling use of as many slots in the back of an AT case for the AGPx, PCI and ISA. I was thinking of using something like an AMD-based Ethernet chip with the prototype board's VIA motherboard chipset. Anyone have comments? Kind of lame or just expensive and nuts? -John Boffemmyer IV ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From Technoid at 30below.com Thu Feb 6 20:15:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002f01c2ce4e$8a1f8e50$6401a8c0@benchbox> I read something recently about those tubes that made some sense. That anodizing their interior is a really terrible idea for a U23x centrifuge separator, and that it is quite possible the Iraqis were looking at European missiles they themselves had which used very fine tolerances (probably because of just good craftsmanship) and misinterpreted this excellence as a requirement rather than an upshot of being made in europe. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 3:45 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, John Allain wrote: ? Are you saying that maybe the Iraqi's were just trying to build copying machines? ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jss at subatomix.com Thu Feb 6 20:25:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Strainge VAXserver 2000 card? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA28@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA28@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <1973444452.20030206202316@subatomix.com> On Thursday, February 6, 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of > VS2000-OPT-1_SM.JPG] > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of > VS2000-OPT-2_SM.JPG] Later, he wrote: > And thanks to some fucked-up demime thing, pics can be found here: That's a feature. It prevents people from fscking up other people's mail feeds with large or unnecessary attachments. As you have observed, it seems to be working quite well. I recommend that you apply a different technology to your file sharing needs. Some that come to my mind include private e-mail, FTP, HTTP, KaZaA, and sneaker-net. -- Jeffrey Sharp From fm.arnold at gmx.net Thu Feb 6 20:37:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <20030206184504.78789.18688.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030206184504.78789.18688.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 06.02.2003: --------------------- Message: 23 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:34:12 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: Old Computer Companies From: "Jarkko Teppo" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Jochen Kunz said: >> On 2003.02.03 03:10 vance@neurotica.com wrote: >> >>> > Norsk Data? >>> I'm not familiar with them either. >> I am not very familiar with them. They made some minicomputers in the >> 70'es, mayby some other stuff too. > >I've seen (well, almost) Norsk Data machines in, hmm.. how should I >phrase that: "big controversial power plants where security is quite >important". This was less than ten years ago so I don't think they've >"upgraded" them. Saw a couple of VAXen as well, 4000/90 if I remember >correctly. The VAXes I saw were not in critical roles. > >(I checked, and they've replaced the Norsk Data system: >http://www.tvo.fi/uploads/Outage_Excellence.pdf, works from google cache as >html) > It seems, that Olkiluoto 1 still has the Norsk-data machines. They will change those next year, so they might still keep all that hardware in stock for some time until block 1 is also modernised. If someone likes to save equipment, doc's or photoos, its time to act now... (too far away for me...) BTW, back in the seventies I was working for a large finnish company that build (parts of) the security shutdown system of the Lovisa npp. They also build the npp-operator's training simulator and I remember that it was using several big Eliott computers from UK. What happened to them? I mean Eliott, not N...a Frank Arnold From hansp at aconit.org Thu Feb 6 21:02:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies References: <20030206184504.78789.18688.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E43213C.5060201@aconit.org> Frank Arnold wrote: > BTW, back in the seventies I was working for a large finnish company that build > (parts of) the security shutdown system of the Lovisa npp. They also build the > npp-operator's training simulator and I remember that it was using several big > Eliott computers from UK. What happened to them? I mean Eliott, not N...a Became part of ICL after a series of mergers in the 60's. -- hbp From kenziem at sympatico.ca Thu Feb 6 21:29:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: tonights finds Message-ID: <20030207032706.PCAK15676.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> I went thinking I was going to pick up an OT DY4 PPC embedded machine, instead it is an DY4 Orion with dual 8" floppies, the manual, a box of disks and a Volker Craig terminal. A few sun keyboards and a unopened copy of PharLap thrown in for good measure. My wife met me at the door saying this is the last machine, so I'll have to get the stuff from the trunk on the weekend. Does anyone have any tales to tell about the DY4? I'm also looking for drive rails for a SGI Personal Iris. From lisa.parmar at aircanada.ca Thu Feb 6 21:54:04 2003 From: lisa.parmar at aircanada.ca (Lisa Parmar) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: IBM 3164 Terminals Message-ID: <3E42AFF9.1B793D8C@aircanada.ca> Hi Pat, Do you have any of the IBM 3164 terminals left? Lisa [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of lisa.parmar.vcf] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 6 21:54:22 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: DECserver 700-16 firmware etc (plus ISO oddities) In-Reply-To: <3E41414B.8050200@srv.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Kevin Handy > Sent: 05 February 2003 16:52 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DECserver 700-16 firmware etc > > You're probably not going to like this, but your drive is probably > dying. I've had a few that did this, and the only fix was to replace them. > Try to use them, even set read-only, and you will probably see them > completely fail in a few weeks. > > Back up whatever you want to keep from them asap, while they > will still read. Ta for that; I'd already formatted it with rzdisk (which didn't complain, btw) so I'm not bothered about contents. I completely forgot I had a BA350 with 7 RZ28s in so I just raided one of those for now. Having fun with the ISO creation though. So far I've tried Nero, CDRwin and IsoBuster and the only one to give me half decent results is IsoBuster; unfortunately no matter which drive (reader is a Plextor 40x and writer is a Yamaha 4416s) I use I get errors, which strikes me as odd since the disk surface looks perfect - no marks or fluff, plus the disks obviously worked when I used them on our InfoServerVXT, which admittedly would be 5 or 6 years ago now. I tried reading the Disk Access CD and the InfoServer 1000 Tape access CD..... Haven't tried doing this on the wife's laptop yet though :) Anyone else see a similar problem? cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From vance at neurotica.com Thu Feb 6 21:54:32 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: <3E42BF4D.27466.59A8CBC5@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > > Robotron - dead. > > > > I'm not familiar with them. > > > Robotron was the East German computer / electronics "company". Was > > > absorbed by Siemens. > > > I see. Did they survive reunification before they were absorbed? > > :)) Otherwise they would not have been absorben ... Or could you have > imagined a western company buying one in Eastern Germany ... or wherever > else in the East? Thought it might be possible that they would announce they were closing up at reunification. Peace... Sridhar From freddy at kotelna.sk Thu Feb 6 21:54:46 2003 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: 10Base-FL In-Reply-To: <20030206185552.60052.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030206185552.60052.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030206220444.GA23749@kotol.kotelna.sk> Ethan Dicks (erd_6502@yahoo.com) wrote : > --- vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > I'm about to put some 10Base-FL in and I was wondering if someone could > > tell me what kind of fiber I should be looking for? Is it 50/125 MMF > > like > > GigE? Or is it 62.5/125 MMF like FDDI? > > AFAIK, you want 62.5/125 MultiMode... same as FDDI, but typically with > ST ends (bayonet style). The FDDI stuff I've seen has SC ends (square > press and latch fittings). > > I have a bit of it (including 50m in my wall connecting the 2nd floor > and basement... just for kicks). 10base-FL is 62.5/125. actually, I'm running fddi on 50/125 with no problems so it shouldn't matter _that_ much what cores you use for it (besides singlemode 8.5/125, of course). regarding fddi, it has all the types, both sc, st and a custom fddi (also called MIC) connector types. cheers, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de Thu Feb 6 21:54:56 2003 From: thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: interesting find In-Reply-To: <000701c2cdfe$3d543030$0000fea9@camaro> Message-ID: On 06-Feb-2003 Rick Bensene wrote: > I have a strong feeling that this is a ROM rather than RAM. > The rods form the core of a transformer. A bunch of 'word' wires > each have a few turns wrapped around the (probably > a ferrite material) rod in a clockwise or counter-clockwise to encode a > 1 or a 0. Another winding around the rod is the sense coil. When a > current pulse passes through one of the word wires, a current is induced > into the sense winding. The induced current in the sense winding is > different, depending on which way the word wire was wrapped around the > rod. The current pulse in the sense winding is amplified and > discriminated (to 1 or 0), and presented as the output for that bit. Ahh, thanks that was the answer I was looking for... :-) This would explain why the coils are mounted on removable "cards" inside the module. > A number of similar architectures were were commonly used for read-only > microcode storage on computers and even calculators > until the mid-1970's, when IC-based ROM began to appear. And when nobody cared about the size, weight and power consumption of computers... ;-) > The HP 9100A/B calculators use a similar architecture, using > wire bobbins instead of rods, for a microsequence store. > The Wang 500, 600, and 700-series calculators also use a similar > architecture, utilizing "U"-shaped ferrite structures as the transformer > core, for microcode storage. Now I remember reading an article that mentioned this type of memory. The article was about radiation-hard memory used on early space missions. > Definitely a neat old relic. Yeah, another interesting item for my collection of forgotten memory technology :-) bye Thilo From vance at neurotica.com Thu Feb 6 21:55:07 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Something for all you PS/2 fans In-Reply-To: <3E429500.17992.18651271@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I wanted one of the Chit-Chat Piper (?) MCA sound cards for the longest > time but they were always too prohibitively expensive for me. Well over > $200 IIRC. Have yet to see one offered on EPay. I thought I had read on > the PS/2 newsgroup that they had gone out of production. They are now > offering them for $129 which isn't a bad price but as the usual frugal > collector I find it hard to justify when I can buy a whole non-MCA > machine including sound card and CDRom for that price. Maybe I could > trade one of my 8580s for one. :^) Shipping might be a bit pricey tho. > Likely about 10 times the cost in your local thrift. Back before the economy started to suck, I bought five of them @$129. They introduced at $439. They also work on RS/6000's. Peace... Sridhar > On 3 Feb 2003, , vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > Try http://www.chipchat.com/. You can still buy a 16-bit > > sound card with 32-voice MIDI for MCA brand new for a > > reasonable price. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > > > > Any sound boards in there (which happen *not* to be > > > M/ACPA)? - Shipping a complete system to Germany will > > > certainly be expensive, but I've been looking for a > > > soundboard to run with WinNT on a PS/2 for ages... > > > > > > vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > > Anyone want PS/2 Mod 95's? Apparently some of them have > > > > Type-IV (! -- expensive) complexes. > > > > > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > > > -- > > > Andreas Freiherr > > > Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany > > > http://www.vishay.com > > > lgwalker@ mts.net From jaybp3 at earthlink.net Thu Feb 6 21:55:20 2003 From: jaybp3 at earthlink.net (Jay Perrin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: 65C51 Message-ID: Just curious... did you find any 65C51 ICs? Jay From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Feb 6 23:19:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ Message-ID: What do I need to get started with 6502 Assembly on an apple II? --- I have: 6502 Machine code reference Apple IIc+ Prodos Dos 3.3 --- Things I know I need to know: What call prints a character? What call gets input of some kind (preferably 1 key at a time) Any calls to clear the screen? Any calls to position the cursor? --- Things I know I need to get: Assembler Editor I don't as yet know how to get things from the web to my Apple II, I use a Mac mostly to surf Thanks for the help.... From fernande at internet1.net Fri Feb 7 00:18:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <3E429500.11331.186511A5@localhost> References: <3E429500.11331.186511A5@localhost> Message-ID: <3E434DED.2030308@internet1.net> Lawrence Walker wrote: > Along the same lines; 7 school-kids on a ski outing were > killed by an avalanche in the Canadian rockies the same > day. CBC-TV jumped all over the Columbia event and ran > continuous coverage of the Columbia relegating the > avalanche victims to regular news coverage. I heard about the Avalanche, but I didn't think all the kids died. Unless, maybe the total number of kids was more than seven. I didn't really pay much attention, since it was someone else's local news, and I was interested in hearing about national news..... the Columbia. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Feb 7 00:31:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030206204449.00ab5008@66.67.226.217> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030207011535.01d03eb8@mail.30below.com> At 21:04 02/06/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I was sitting at home reading my latest copy of Mouser (component catalog) As I have done most recently... ;-) > Palms and Visors... I've had a somewhat different _psycho-wacky_ idea -- what would it take to get OS-9/68K ported to the Palm? I have a Palm 3c with a partially dead battery, twiddling it's thumbs, which would make a decent "play-palm"... uClinux looks too bulky & slow, compared to OS-9... Anyone here work for Radisys/MicroWare... Any chance they'd sell hobbyist source licenses??? :-) One bad thing with this is I did some googling earlier today (for sh*ts & grins) and there's not a ton of info about the internals of the Palms (things like memory maps, display access parameters, etc...) out there... >...but the palm doesn't have built in USB or Ethernet or Serial, Ahem, *all* the older Palms (up to & including the 3C) had built-in Serial, and the newer ones have built-in USB... mind you, you need a Handspring with it's built-in CF slot to get ethernet... > you are stuck with a bulky add-on or a cradle... Or just a cable... been on the open market for years... :-) >...possibly SCSI on a standard AT board in as small a size as possible >while enabling use of as many slots in the back of an AT case for the >AGPx, PCI and ISA. I was thinking of using something like an AMD-based >Ethernet chip with the prototype board's VIA motherboard chipset. Anyone >have comments? Why? Just to have a very small computer? If so, there's a new "standard" out that about 1/2 the size of a Micro-ATX board... the whole computer's about 9-10" high... Available in Athlon & Pentium4 flavors... ... If you were looking at the slower machines to save money, the custom mobo's will cure that... Just more assorted ramblings... ;-) Roger "Merch" Merchberger From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 7 02:03:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: interesting find In-Reply-To: References: <000701c2cdfe$3d543030$0000fea9@camaro> Message-ID: <32848.64.169.63.74.1044604819.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> The HP 9100A/B calculators use a similar architecture, using >> wire bobbins instead of rods, for a microsequence store. >> The Wang 500, 600, and 700-series calculators also use a similar >> architecture, utilizing "U"-shaped ferrite structures as the >> transformer core, for microcode storage. > > Now I remember reading an article that mentioned this type of memory. > The article was about radiation-hard memory used on early space > missions. The described sort of memory is commonly referred to as "core rope memory" or "wire braid memory", or (in IBM terminology) Transformer Read Only Store (TROS). The use of such memory in spacecraft computers (such as the Apollo Guidance Computer) was mostly for the purpose of saving space and mass compared to read/write core memory, and reliability in terms of it being nearly impossible to inadvertently (or even deliberately) change a bit by any means short of gross physical damage. But the competing memory technology, read/write core memory, was no more susceptible to corruption by radiation. The cores are physically large enough that the amount of energy needed to flip them far exceeds anything they're going to encounter from radiation. By comparison, in modern semiconductor memory (and RAM-based FPGAs), single-event upsets are a serious concern, even for ground-based safety-critical systems. In memory systems, this can be dealt with by appropriate use of ECC, and possibly scrubbing - periodically reading the memory and correcting errors often enough that there is negligible statistical likelyhood of two single-bit errors occuring in the same word. For FPGAs, there's not a simple solution. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Feb 7 02:12:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: 10Base-FL In-Reply-To: Adrien Farkas "Re: 10Base-FL" (Feb 6, 23:04) References: <20030206185552.60052.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> <20030206220444.GA23749@kotol.kotelna.sk> Message-ID: <10302070758.ZM16604@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 6, 23:04, Adrien Farkas wrote: > 10base-FL is 62.5/125. actually, I'm running fddi on 50/125 with no > problems so it shouldn't matter _that_ much what cores you use for it > (besides singlemode 8.5/125, of course). Actually, the standards allow for both 50/125 and 62.5/125 for 10baseFL and FDDI, and everything else up to Gigabit. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Technoid at 30below.com Fri Feb 7 02:47:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030207011535.01d03eb8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <000001c2ce85$47969ba0$6401a8c0@benchbox> OS/9 is a proprietary os I was lead to believe. I don't think getting the source would be an easy thing to do on-the-cheap, but you might look into a freeware operating system that has been around on 68k for quite some time called "MiNT" or "FreeMiNT" or "SpareMiNT". It is a BSD variant that will run with or without and MMU and with or without a mathco. I run it on a 4mb Atari Mega4 ST. I don't have enough ram to run X and actually DO anything, but it is fully multiuser, multithreaded, multitasking etc. and works peachy for me if I avoid trying to use X. There is a free version of Multitos which will run atop it too. With all that and Slip/ppp networking running to my sparcstation, I have about 1.5mb free for programs which on this machine is plenty. MiNT scales nicely also. If you have a killer 030/040/060 system, it will detect and utilize it's hardware appropriately (virtual memory, math extensions etc). It has been ported from the ST to the Mac and I think to the Amiga. Since it is BSD, you can easily cross-compile apps from other platforms which makes development a whole lot easier. Oh, MiNT stands for "MiNT is Not Tos". Some say 'is Now' as it was picked up by Atari as the basis for multitos in the early 90's? Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Roger Merchberger Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:26 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Odd ideas that I've had lately... At 21:04 02/06/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I was sitting at home reading my latest copy of Mouser (component catalog) As I have done most recently... ;-) > Palms and Visors... I've had a somewhat different _psycho-wacky_ idea -- what would it take to get OS-9/68K ported to the Palm? I have a Palm 3c with a partially dead battery, twiddling it's thumbs, which would make a decent "play-palm"... uClinux looks too bulky & slow, compared to OS-9... Anyone here work for Radisys/MicroWare... Any chance they'd sell hobbyist source licenses??? :-) One bad thing with this is I did some googling earlier today (for sh*ts & grins) and there's not a ton of info about the internals of the Palms (things like memory maps, display access parameters, etc...) out there... >...but the palm doesn't have built in USB or Ethernet or Serial, Ahem, *all* the older Palms (up to & including the 3C) had built-in Serial, and the newer ones have built-in USB... mind you, you need a Handspring with it's built-in CF slot to get ethernet... > you are stuck with a bulky add-on or a cradle... Or just a cable... been on the open market for years... :-) >...possibly SCSI on a standard AT board in as small a size as possible >while enabling use of as many slots in the back of an AT case for the >AGPx, PCI and ISA. I was thinking of using something like an AMD-based >Ethernet chip with the prototype board's VIA motherboard chipset. Anyone >have comments? Why? Just to have a very small computer? If so, there's a new "standard" out that about 1/2 the size of a Micro-ATX board... the whole computer's about 9-10" high... Available in Athlon & Pentium4 flavors... ... If you were looking at the slower machines to save money, the custom mobo's will cure that... Just more assorted ramblings... ;-) Roger "Merch" Merchberger From paulm064 at icqmail.com Fri Feb 7 03:41:00 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: found usefull jumper page Message-ID: <000801c2ce8d$fc5d9fe0$6054ddcb@earth2> Found a pretty good jumper settings page ,has older network adaptors and hard drive data etc. plaese don't swamp it and have it killed! From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Fri Feb 7 04:13:00 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies In-Reply-To: References: <20030206184504.78789.18688.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <64745.62.148.198.97.1044612629.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Frank Arnold said: > It seems, that Olkiluoto 1 still has the Norsk-data machines. They will > change > those next year, so they might still keep all that hardware in stock for > some > time until block 1 is also modernised. > If someone likes to save equipment, doc's or photoos, its time to act > now... > (too far away for me...) Now that would be a challenge ! I've visited the place once many moons ago and I remember that the security was tight then but I'd have to wonder what it would be like now... "Uh, can I keep the hard drives ?" (to wife) "But honey, with all that glow there's no longer a need for light bulbs" Ok, joking aside. I might see what can be done but I'm not expecting anything. > > BTW, back in the seventies I was working for a large finnish company that > build > (parts of) the security shutdown system of the Lovisa npp. They also build > the > npp-operator's training simulator and I remember that it was using several > big > Eliott computers from UK. What happened to them? I mean Eliott, not N...a > I didn't know N was involved there as well. I thought it was all ABB. Thanks for the info, it sure is (from a technical standpoint) an interesting facility. Certainly not your average industrial complex :-) -- jht From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 7 04:33:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives In-Reply-To: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B827@308server.308dole.com> Message-ID: <20030207103043.94426.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kelly Leavitt wrote: > Any good sources of MFM or RLL drives. This would be for a Tandy 6000 > running Xenix. > > I'm looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity). Hmm... those aren't so common (in the DEC world, there are two choices - the RD53 (Miniscribe 1325) and the RD54 (Maxtor XT2190). I take it you aren't constrained by a narrow set of expected geometries? (i.e. - you have a running system and/or the install procedure asks you about the drive rather than assuming?) -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 7 04:40:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: 65C51 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030207103756.1223.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jay Perrin wrote: > Just curious... did you find any 65C51 ICs? Me? Not yet. I heard about a "bulk buy" via the folks who are involved with 6502.org, but I am not a participant (nor have I substantiated any details). I do have a quantity of 6551s, but not 65C51s. I was contemplating building an SBC-2 and populating it with NMOS, not CMOS... not for battery-powered use, obviously. Eventually, of course, I plan to locate the "right" parts and do it in CMOS. -ethan From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Feb 7 04:52:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: found usefull jumper page In-Reply-To: <000801c2ce8d$fc5d9fe0$6054ddcb@earth2> Message-ID: <000001c2ce96$9e9c87f0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Found a pretty good jumper settings page ,has older network > adaptors and hard drive data etc. > > plaese don't swamp it and have it killed! You've helped your aim considerably by not actually posting the URL ... :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 7 04:58:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Strainge VAXserver 2000 card? (more info) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA29@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Indeed, the card I plucked out of the expansion box is only the card with the board's line drivers and faceplate. The real board is inside the machine, and looks to be a regular MV2000/3100 expansion board. Since someone already mentioned that their serial expander has the centronics-like connector for the H3104 on the faceplate, this *must* then be the sync-serial ("X.25") one. See the new pics at: http://www.microwalt.nl/Fred/VAXlab/VS2000-OPT-1.JPG http://www.microwalt.nl/Fred/VAXlab/VS2000-OPT-2.JPG http://www.microwalt.nl/Fred/VAXlab/VS2000-OPT-3.JPG [new] http://www.microwalt.nl/Fred/VAXlab/VS2000-OPT-4.JPG [new] These are the 1280x1024 ones., for clarity of the card's details. --fred From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Fri Feb 7 05:05:00 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E4321A7.25212.75DCBE5@localhost> Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ From: Ron Hudson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:19:29 -0800 > What do I need to get started with 6502 Assembly on an apple II? > > --- I have: > 6502 Machine code reference > Apple IIc+ > Prodos > Dos 3.3 For starters, I believe that the IIC+, like the IIGS has a Mini Assembler built into its ROM. To get to it, you enter the commands: CALL -151 (takes you to the Machine Language Monitor) ! (takes you from the Monitor to the Mini Assembler) The Mini Assembler is a very rudimentary line by line assembler. In other words, when you enter a line of Assembly language, it automatically gets assembled into its 6502 machine language counterpart and stored in RAM. You can then save your machine language program with the BSAVE command (I don't remember the actual format of the command at the moment unfortunately). It isn't the most effective way to write assembly language programs, but it is good as a starting point. Also, if your Apple II has a word processor that can save in plain ASCII format, you can write your assembly language code in a text file and use the EXEC command to load it into the Mini Assembler. As for getting programs and other files from the Internet to your IIC+, your Mac should be able to read and write ProDOS disks that you can use on your II. There's quite a few Apple II FAQs out there on the Net; and you should be able to find more information than I can provide at this gawdawful hour. You might also want to fire up your UseNet news reader and check out comp.sys.apple2 for more help. -- Scarletdown From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Fri Feb 7 05:10:01 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: found usefull jumper page In-Reply-To: <000001c2ce96$9e9c87f0$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <000801c2ce8d$fc5d9fe0$6054ddcb@earth2> Message-ID: <3E4322A3.19225.761A5DE@localhost> From: "Antonio Carlini" To: Subject: RE: found usefull jumper page Organization: me@home Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:49:41 -0000 > > Found a pretty good jumper settings page ,has older network > > adaptors and hard drive data etc. > > > > plaese don't swamp it and have it killed! > > You've helped your aim considerably by not > actually posting the URL ... :-) > For hard drives, http://www.pc-disk.de/ has jumper settings and setup info for nearly any IDE, SCSI, and MFM hard drive imaginable. For other bits of hardware, do a search for TH99. That's a huge database for various motherboards and expansion cards (ISA, EISA, VLB, etc), and provides jumper and DIP switch settings as well as other important bits of info. -- Scarletdown From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Fri Feb 7 05:17:01 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: found usefull jumper page References: <000801c2ce8d$fc5d9fe0$6054ddcb@earth2> Message-ID: <3E439471.7030904@Vishay.com> Don't worry: as long as we have no link to the page, we cannot do anything bad to it. ;-) pmulry wrote: > Found a pretty good jumper settings page ,has older network adaptors and hard > drive data etc. > > plaese don't swamp it and have it killed! -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 7 05:23:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummie s, In-Reply-To: <002f01c2ce4e$8a1f8e50$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > I read something recently about those tubes that made some sense. That > anodizing their interior is a really terrible idea for a U23x centrifuge > separator, and that it is quite possible the Iraqis were looking at > European missiles they themselves had which used very fine tolerances > (probably because of just good craftsmanship) and misinterpreted this > excellence as a requirement rather than an upshot of being made in > europe. This sounds like Colin Powell "evidence". Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 7 05:25:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > What do I need to get started with 6502 Assembly on an apple II? CALL -151 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 7 05:29:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <3E4321A7.25212.75DCBE5@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Scarletdown wrote: > counterpart and stored in RAM. You can then save your machine > language program with the BSAVE command (I don't remember the actual > format of the command at the moment unfortunately). It isn't the BSAVE ,A$,L$ You can also use decimal parameters this way: BSAVE ,A,L Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 7 05:36:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Interesting technique for removing tape discovered Message-ID: Someone sent me an unassembled Ohio Scientific Superboard II kit in its original box the other day. Unfortunately, they didn't put the original box inside another box before applying tape and the Fedex shipping receipt pouch on the box (over the original OS label). So I had to carefully peel off the various stickies. I was able to do a pretty good job and except for the label tearing due to age, I was able to remove the pouch without damaging it. When I was removing the tape I accidently discovered that if I pulled the tape in a horizontal plane, it actually causes the tape to lift from the box without taking the top layer of the cardboard or any paper labels with it. Grab on to the tape and start pulling on it (hard) rather than peeling it back. It will lift off. The kind of tape I am referring to here is the clear packaging tape. Anyway, something to try the next time someone does this to you. To avoid this, be sure to have your sender put any original boxes inside another box before shipping. I didn't realize this was coming in the original box or else I would have instructed him to do so. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From paulm064 at icqmail.com Fri Feb 7 05:39:00 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: found usefull jumper page References: <000801c2ce8d$fc5d9fe0$6054ddcb@earth2> <3E439471.7030904@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <004c01c2ce9e$7e44fc00$6054ddcb@earth2> sorry this is the link i left off message. sent update message earlier but must not have got through. http://th99.pley.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andreas Freiherr" To: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 PM Subject: Re: found usefull jumper page > Don't worry: as long as we have no link to the page, we cannot do > anything bad to it. ;-) > > pmulry wrote: > > Found a pretty good jumper settings page ,has older network adaptors and hard > > drive data etc. > > > > plaese don't swamp it and have it killed! > > -- > Andreas Freiherr > Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany > http://www.vishay.com From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Fri Feb 7 07:20:01 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ References: Message-ID: <006f01c2ceab$56c0ca80$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Ron, This is just my preference. Pick up Apple Pascal OS (UCSD P-System). It comes with a more than adequate assembler and editor plus the Pascal interpretive environment made it very easy to test assembler subroutines. I recall putting together 6502 assembler for higher precision paddles, interrupt handling (IRQ) for Hayes micromodem & Corvus network, direct screen buffer access for animation, compression, conversion (ebcdic-bcl-ascii) etc. The Apple Pascal OS needed 64K (16K language card?) but was very sparing on program memory requirements. Pascal was compiled into very compact P-code (shades of today's Java byte-code). Apple Pascal also had builtin memory management allowing you to put together very large applications. I ported wall street applications from IBM mainframe and Burroughs mainframe to the Apple ][ and was able to add features. I loved the Apple ][. I was always able to do whatever I wanted on that baby. Have fun! - Jim p.s. I also did quite well with 6502 asm code in cpu speed tests vs 80x86 and Z80 programmers. The zero page, for all intents and purposes, is 256 registers. 6502 is single cycle instruction execution. Look up definitions of RISC and the 6502 is arguably RISC-like. Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 00:19 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > What do I need to get started with 6502 Assembly on an apple II? > > --- I have: > 6502 Machine code reference > Apple IIc+ > Prodos > Dos 3.3 > > > > --- Things I know I need to know: > What call prints a character? > What call gets input of some kind (preferably 1 key at a time) > Any calls to clear the screen? > Any calls to position the cursor? > > --- Things I know I need to get: > Assembler > Editor > > I don't as yet know how to get things from the web to my Apple II, I > use a Mac mostly to surf > > Thanks for the help.... From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Feb 7 07:49:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Columbia In-Reply-To: <3E429500.11331.186511A5@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 6, 03 05:01:52 pm Message-ID: <200302071345.IAA05199@wordstock.com> And thusly Lawrence Walker spake: > > Along the same lines; 7 school-kids on a ski outing were > killed by an avalanche in the Canadian rockies the same > day. CBC-TV jumped all over the Columbia event and ran > continuous coverage of the Columbia relegating the > avalanche victims to regular news coverage. Late Saturday night on NWI was the CBC broadcast which had only two stories: the Columbia disaster and this avalanche. Granted, they did spend more time on Columbia. Cheers, Bryan From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 7 07:56:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E43C8BC.21916.5DB5A3F6@localhost> > What do I need to get started with 6502 Assembly on an apple II? > --- I have: > 6502 Machine code reference > Apple IIc+ > Prodos > Dos 3.3 > --- Things I know I need to know: > What call prints a character? JSR $FDED ASCII Print JSR $FDDA Hex Print JSR $FDE3 Nibble Print > What call gets input of some kind (preferably 1 key at a time) JSR $FD1B Wait for key JSR $FD35 Peek Key > Any calls to clear the screen? JSR $FC58 > Any calls to position the cursor? $20-$23 Window size $24,25 Cursor And then there was JSR $BF00 to execute Prodos commands ($c0 and up). Not to forget $B700 for RWTS :) (Yes, I know, official entry point was $3D9 and GETIOB is $3E3) After all RTFM ! THe manual did list all of this and more. including the Monitor ROM listing. > --- Things I know I need to get: > Assembler > Editor Get a copy of BigMac, and go ahead. it's a nice all in one environment, and works fine on every Apple. Well, Merlin will do the same. > I don't as yet know how to get things from the web to my Apple II, I > use a Mac mostly to surf Use a browser :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 7 08:22:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: OT Avalanches (was: Columbia) In-Reply-To: <3E434DED.2030308@internet1.net> References: <3E429500.11331.186511A5@localhost> Message-ID: <3E43CEC0.6361.5DCD24BF@localhost> > > Along the same lines; 7 school-kids on a ski outing were > > killed by an avalanche in the Canadian rockies the same > > day. CBC-TV jumped all over the Columbia event and ran > > continuous coverage of the Columbia relegating the > > avalanche victims to regular news coverage. > I heard about the Avalanche, but I didn't think all the kids died. > Unless, maybe the total number of kids was more than seven. I didn't > really pay much attention, since it was someone else's local news, and I > was interested in hearing about national news..... the Columbia. Yesterday 4 snowboarders, which where missing afer an avalanche in the French Alps where rescued. They survived in a self made igloo in 2150m (~7000ft) for 4 days. Grus H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From cb at mythtech.net Fri Feb 7 08:43:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: C= 64's maybe available Message-ID: Picked this up from the LEM-Swap list, passing it on in case anyone was interested. Reply to him, not me. ---- Subject: [swap] OT; Commodore 64 Date: 2/7/03 8:26 AM Received: 2/7/03 9:25 AM From: Nick Hull, nhull@mindspring.com I need to get rid of a pair of Commodore 64 computers. Is there any group that handles these? I hate to just trash things when someone might actually want some. ---- -chris From Technoid at 30below.com Fri Feb 7 08:52:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: OT Avalanches (was: Columbia) In-Reply-To: <3E43CEC0.6361.5DCD24BF@localhost> Message-ID: <000101c2ceb8$66abe1c0$6401a8c0@benchbox> When I was a kid, I tried and tried to make an igloo of packed cubes of snow. I never could get one finished as once the walls started to curve I couldn't get the layers to stick long enough to close the thing up and complete it. An igloo is a very stable structure, but a half-finished one isn't at all stable... I've run a few over with the snowmobile in frustration. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Hans Franke Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:21 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: OT Avalanches (was: Columbia) > > Along the same lines; 7 school-kids on a ski outing were > > killed by an avalanche in the Canadian rockies the same > > day. CBC-TV jumped all over the Columbia event and ran > > continuous coverage of the Columbia relegating the > > avalanche victims to regular news coverage. > I heard about the Avalanche, but I didn't think all the kids died. > Unless, maybe the total number of kids was more than seven. I didn't > really pay much attention, since it was someone else's local news, and I > was interested in hearing about national news..... the Columbia. Yesterday 4 snowboarders, which where missing afer an avalanche in the French Alps where rescued. They survived in a self made igloo in 2150m (~7000ft) for 4 days. Grus H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Feb 7 08:55:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is collecting/storing them? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030206110633.00b91650@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030206110633.00b91650@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, RCTech wrote: > HP: Don't trash that old computer > By Ian Fried > Staff Writer, CNET News.com > February 5, 2003, 5:10 PM PT > Hewlett-Packard is hoping a little green will help make computer owners > recycle more of their old tech gear. The computer maker is testing a > program that gives those who recycle their old computers, monitors, > printers or other gear a coupon worth up to $50 for any purchase of $60 > or more on HP's online store. Under a program announced nearly two years > ago, HP charges anywhere from $17 to $31 to recycle products. Last I heard, they were crushing them. -Toth From Technoid at 30below.com Fri Feb 7 09:11:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives In-Reply-To: <20030207103043.94426.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000201c2ceba$f0039240$6401a8c0@benchbox> Now THAT is an excellent response to this question man. I installed a 70 meg ST506/412 drive in my Eagle system as a secondary drive. I tried it as a primary just for fun, but it wants very specific geometries from a hard-coded set of possibles. The drive I'd picked wasn't one of them. Fortunately, the machine already had a 120megger as primary. I just wanted to 'max' the thing as much as possible. Naturally. Regards, jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 5:31 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives --- Kelly Leavitt wrote: > Any good sources of MFM or RLL drives. This would be for a Tandy 6000 > running Xenix. > > I'm looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity). Hmm... those aren't so common (in the DEC world, there are two choices - the RD53 (Miniscribe 1325) and the RD54 (Maxtor XT2190). I take it you aren't constrained by a narrow set of expected geometries? (i.e. - you have a running system and/or the install procedure asks you about the drive rather than assuming?) -ethan From cb at mythtech.net Fri Feb 7 09:12:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: OT Avalanches (was: Columbia) Message-ID: >When I was a kid, I tried and tried to make an igloo of packed cubes of >snow. I never could get one finished as once the walls started to curve >I couldn't get the layers to stick long enough to close the thing up and >complete it. An igloo is a very stable structure, but a half-finished >one isn't at all stable... In boy scouts, we cheated. We used a plastic box to make the packed cubes, and a spray bottle of water to make the blocks stick together. A light misting on the top edge of a block, then press the next block down onto it and hold for a second... igloo superglue! It worked well enough to get the structure finished... alas we didn't make it big enough for all of us in the troop to fit inside (10 of us?), and the pushing and shoving that followed made quick work of tearing it back down. -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 7 09:19:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <3E43C8BC.21916.5DB5A3F6@localhost> Message-ID: <20030207151636.28607.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans Franke wrote: > > --- Things I know I need to get: > > Assembler > > Editor > > Get a copy of BigMac, and go ahead. it's a nice all in one > environment, and works fine on every Apple. Oh Yeah! BigMac (or as we used to call it at Software Productions, "BigHack"). Wrote a lot of code on it. It was the nicest thing I'd used up to that time (since then, though, my favorite 6502 development environment is a SPARCstation with a nice big monitor, tiled windows to edit and cross-compile code, and VICE to test it. ;-) -ethan From jwillis at arielusa.com Fri Feb 7 09:22:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: VAX/PDP docs. received Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB766@deathstar.arielnet.com> Received from a former DEC service rep.: If anyone wants scans of a specific piece, I will probably arrange it. This accounts for only the miniscule portion I've managed to sort and catalog in the past 3 hours (about 1/8 of the total number of documentation pieces I received): Communications Options Minireference Manual, vols. 1-7 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Vols. 1-3 VAX 8600/8650 System Diagnostics User's Guide Communications Options Minireference Manual VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures Cartridge Tape Service Documentation TK50 Tape Drive Subsystem Owner's Manual TK50 Tape Drive Subsystem User's Guide TK70 Streaming Tape Drive Owner's Manual TK70 Streaming Tape Drive Subsystem Service Manual (MicroVAX II sys.) ThinWire Ethernet COAXIAL CABLE CONNECTOR INSTALLATION CARD H4000 DIGITAL Ethernet Transceiver Installation Manual Fiber Optic Attenuator Installation/Configuration Reference Card LA120 Series Pocket Service Guide LA10X-EJ/EL Tractor Option Installation Guide DECWRITER III LA120 Operator Reference Card LCG01 Color Printer System Pocket Service Guide MicroVAX 3600/VAXserver 3600/3602 Operation KA650 CPU System Maintenance MicroVAX 3600/VAXserver 3600/3602 Technical Information ULTRIX-32 Guide to the Error Logger System LJ250/LJ252 Companion Color Printer Pocket Service Guide LN03 Pocket Service Guide RF-LN03 Pocket Service Guide VAX 6200 Options and Maintenance VAX 6200/6300, VAXserver 6200/6230 Owner's Manual VAXstation 2000 Workstations and MicroVAX 2000 Network Guide ULTRIX-32 Basic Installation Guide for the VAXserver 2000 DECstation 2100/3100 Maintenance Guide MicroVAX 2000 Installation MicroVAX 2000 Operation Addendum: VAXserver 2000 MicroVAX 2000 Operation MicroVAX 2000 Troubleshooting MicroVAX 2000 Technical Information MicroVAX 2000 Customer Services VAXstation 2000 and MicroVAX 2000 Maintenance Guide VAXstation 3100 Maintenance Information VAXstation 3100 Illustrated Parts Breakdown VAXstation 2000 Hardware Information VAXstation 2000 System Guide VAXstation 2000 Network Guide VAX 6000-400 Options and Maintenance VT100 Series Pocket Service Guide VT180 Series Pocket Service Guide VT320 Pocket Service Guide VT330 Pocket Service Guide VT340 Pocket Service Guide VAXcluster Service Reference Manual VAXcluster Service Reference Set VAX 8530/8550/8700/8800/8820/8830/8840 System Maint. Guide 8800 8700 8550 8500 Console User's Guide B213F Expander Installation R215F Expander Maintenance KA655 CPU System Maintenance VAX Architecture Reference Manual CI750 User's Guide BA11-A Mounting Box and Power System Tech. Manual VAX-11/750 Diag. System Overview Manual VAX-11/750 Level 1 Student Workbook (Digital Internal Use Only) VAX-11/750 UNIBUS Interface Technical Description VAX-11/751 User's Guide DELUA User's Guide MicroVAX 2000 Hardware Information MicroVAX VAX 8200/50, 8500/50 The Digital Dictionary, Second Edition VAX Maintenance Handbook (VAX Systems) VAX Maintenance Handbook (VAX-11/780) VAX Maintenance Handbook (VAX-11/750) VAX-11/750 Mini Diag. Ref. Guide RM05 Disk Subsystem Service Manual RM05 Disk Subsystem Student Guide (Digital Internal Use Only) RM03 Disk Drive Maint. Print Set RP04/05/06 Field Maint. Print Set Symptom Directed Diagnosis Tool Kit Installation Guide VAXsimPLUS Field Service Manual Getting Started with VAXsimPLUS VAXsimPLUS User Guide Model 733 DEC Disk Storage Drive Parts Catalog, Jan. 1976 RP04-TC Part II RP04, RP05, RP06 Field Svc. Handbook HSC50 Service Manual HSC Installation Manual VAX 86XX System Maint. Guide RP05/RP06 Field Handbook -Company Confidential- RP05/06 677-01/51 Disc Drive Illustrated Parts Catalog Model 677-01/51 RP05/06 DEC DISC MAINTENANCE Guide (Educ. Svcs.) Digital Education and Training: UNIX Utils & Cmds. Student Guide From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 7 09:23:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: OT Avalanches (was: Columbia) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030207152028.826.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- chris wrote: > >When I was a kid, I tried and tried to make an igloo of packed cubes of > >snow.... > > In boy scouts, we cheated. We used a plastic box to make the packed > cubes, and a spray bottle of water to make the blocks stick together.... Having made an igloo as part of a survival course, I can say that the real problem with making an igloo as a kid is that standard midwestern snow is *not* the right stuff to use. Arctic/Antarctic snow has a different grain and has different adhesion properties. We saw-cut our snow blocks from wind-packed snow called "firn". It's like handling styrofoam. Very light with lots of friction between the blocks. Yes, there's still the instability problem of a half- finished igloo, but it's not as much of an impediment. -ethan From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 7 09:26:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:38 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <20030207151636.28607.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3E43C8BC.21916.5DB5A3F6@localhost> Message-ID: <3E43DDE8.7765.5E085824@localhost> > > > --- Things I know I need to get: > > > Assembler > > > Editor > > Get a copy of BigMac, and go ahead. it's a nice all in one > > environment, and works fine on every Apple. > Oh Yeah! BigMac (or as we used to call it at Software Productions, > "BigHack"). > Wrote a lot of code on it. It was the nicest thing I'd used up > to that time (since then, though, my favorite 6502 development > environment is a SPARCstation with a nice big monitor, tiled > windows to edit and cross-compile code, and VICE to test it. ;-) I used BigMac for all my projects, including the doomed SSC ROM... (*1) Gruss H. (*1) I don't know if I already told the story -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 7 09:26:13 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: VAX/PDP docs. received In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB766@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <20030207152400.33795.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Willis wrote: > Received from a former DEC service rep... Wow! Whatta haul! > VT100 Series Pocket Service Guide This one is already scanned somewhere, yes? If not, I'd be interested in it, in a low-priority sort of way. > VT180 Series Pocket Service Guide This one would be entertaining, but non-critical. > VAX 8200/50, 8500/50 What's this one? I have an 8200 in the basement... -ethan From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 7 09:35:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: VAX/PDP docs. received Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA2E@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > Received from a former DEC service rep.: Ohh... my... god ! What's the guy's address? I'll send him a crate of beer as thanks for *not* redirecting his stuff to the garbage truck, as is done WAY too often... yay yay yay! --f From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Feb 7 09:37:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <20030207151636.28607.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Feb 7, 3 07:16:34 am" Message-ID: <200302071545.HAA26054@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Wrote a lot of code on it. It was the nicest thing I'd used up > to that time (since then, though, my favorite 6502 development > environment is a SPARCstation with a nice big monitor, tiled > windows to edit and cross-compile code, and VICE to test it. ;-) I'm doing the same thing on my dual G4, except it's xa and Power64. :-) (This beats crash-and-reload cycles on the 128 with TurboAss!) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- What you don't mean, can't hurt you. -- Firesign Theater ------------------- From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Feb 7 09:48:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Strainge VAXserver 2000 card? (more info) In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA29@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <000001c2cec0$09cd08f0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Since someone already mentioned that their serial expander > has the centronics-like connector for the H3104 on the > faceplate, this *must* then be the sync-serial ("X.25") one. The synch interface for a MicroVAX 2000 is the DST32 - it was also used (IIRC) in the early MicroVAX 3100s (the later 3100s used the DSW41/42). The connector will be the "universal" one that the synch comms group adopted - all the cards could then use the same connector and the final connection was made using the appropriate adapter cable fro RS232, RS422/423, V.35 etc. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Feb 7 09:56:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: VAX/PDP docs. received In-Reply-To: <20030207152400.33795.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000101c2cec1$26a65480$cb87fe3e@athlon> > > VAX 8200/50, 8500/50 > > What's this one? I have an 8200 in the basement... Well I've scanned the KA820 Tech Manual so I guess you'd like it to be one of the early ones I upload to fred RSN ? As for the rest of the haul - sounds pretty good to say the least. Save yourself a deal of work by listing the part numbers for each one too (it's no extra work compared to typing in the whole actual title). Then check on the net to see which have already been scanned (start at everything pointed to by http://www.decdocs.org). Or if you post a complete list (part numbers first would be best ) I'll see if I can automagically compare it agains the list I have kicking around somewhere (I knew I'd find a use for perl on eday :-) ). Something else to watch out for are the MDS CDs and the MDS Supplementary CDS. Each set is about 3 CDs and they contains a whole heap of manuals. The older ones are scans and the newer ones are straight PDFs. (And, of course, fiche is always good for the much older stuff). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Feb 7 10:10:01 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Unassembled Superboard II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Someone sent me an unassembled Ohio Scientific Superboard II kit in its > original box the other day. Oh! You lucky son-of-a-gun! What REV? From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Feb 7 11:06:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Atari ST Help In-Reply-To: <20030207020700.85074.22086.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030207170326.60579.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Curt! Yes, I know about that site, but they want WAY too much money for a used adapter for an old computer. You would think that at this point, they'd be about $20.00 or so, since I can buy whole ST's for about that price. I just can't justify spending $150.00 or more to put a hard drive on a $20.00 computer. I just want to play... So, I'll keep looking. Maybe I'll spot something cheap on eBay or at the Trenton Computer Festival in May. AERCO was a small Texas company that made little gadgets for the Atari ST, Amiga and Timex/Sinclair computers. When I worked for Zebra Systems, Inc. We sold their products... Regards, Al > From: "Curt Vendel" > Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:13:41 -0500 > > Hi Al, > > Never heard of that particular memory board > before, don't know where you can get a manual. > For a HD you can go to www.myatari.com and buy > a "ICD LINK" Adapter which will give your DMA/ASCI > port full SCSI capabilities, also ask them about > ExtenDOS Gold, its a drivers disk that will allow > the TOS to recognize and use CD-ROM drives too, they > also have a large selection of ST software on > CDROM's > > > > Curt From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 7 11:11:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: DEC InfoServer ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA30@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, is anyone here familiar with installing and operating Info Servers? I got word that they are pretty much the same as a stripped-down MV3100, so installing the InfoServer CD on such a machine (equipped with CD drive) should get us the desired result... Pse contact me off-list if you can help, and I'll summarize here, later. Thx, Fred From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Feb 7 11:19:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Atari ST Help In-Reply-To: <20030207170326.60579.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> from "Al Hartman" at Feb 7, 03 09:03:26 am Message-ID: <200302071714.MAA08682@wordstock.com> And thusly Al Hartman spake: > > You would think that at this point, they'd be about > $20.00 or so, since I can buy whole ST's for about > that price. I just can't justify spending $150.00 or > more to put a hard drive on a $20.00 computer. An IDE card for the C64 is $89 US and the SCSI controller is $249. Cheers, Bryan P.S. The SCSI drive (CMD-HD) acts just like a 1541 drive.. ie it is a "smart" device. From marvin at rain.org Fri Feb 7 11:27:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Ebay - HP85A Message-ID: <3E43EBBC.4FF957A7@rain.org> There is an HP-86A for sale on ebay at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3400284610&category=179#BID1 The current bid is $10.50, and it ends at 11:47 PST. From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Feb 7 11:37:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: OT Avalanches (was: Columbia) In-Reply-To: <000101c2ceb8$66abe1c0$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > When I was a kid, I tried and tried to make an igloo of packed cubes of > snow. I never could get one finished as once the walls started to curve > I couldn't get the layers to stick long enough to close the thing up and > complete it. An igloo is a very stable structure, but a half-finished > one isn't at all stable... ISTR the Inuit used water to fuse the blocks while building. Doc From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Fri Feb 7 12:12:00 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Rookie HP-85 problem Message-ID: OK, I took it apart to take alook inside and clean it up. Now I can't get the damn cover back on. It seems to get caught on the tape eject button. Don't want to break the cover forcing it. Are you supposed to separate the monitor/tape brown faceplate from the rest of the cover first? HELP RH From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Feb 7 12:22:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: VAX/PDP docs. received In-Reply-To: <000101c2cec1$26a65480$cb87fe3e@athlon>; from arcarlini@iee.org on Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 16:53:54 CET References: <20030207152400.33795.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> <000101c2cec1$26a65480$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <20030207184709.U1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.07 16:53 Antonio Carlini wrote: > Then check on the net to see which have already been scanned > (start at everything pointed to by http://www.decdocs.org). BTW: I have a scan of the "KA680 CPU Module Technical Manual EK-KA680-TM-001" (VAX4000-500 CPU) Individual G4 compressed TIFFs in a tar.bz2 or PDF (ca. 20MB each). I tried to contact the "Curator" of "The DFWCUG Historical CPU Preservation Society" to submit it to http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm but the mail bounced with a SMTP error. Is there an other contact address besides opcom at vmsone dot com? I will also contact MrBill from decdocs.org and Tim Shoppa (http://scandocs.trailing-edge.com/) and ask if they are interrested to put it online... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 7 12:23:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: OT Avalanches (was: Columbia) Message-ID: <20030207182041.61952.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> >When I was a kid, I tried and tried to make an igloo of packed cubes of >snow. I never could get one finished as once the walls started to curve >I couldn't get the layers to stick long enough to close the thing up and >complete it. An igloo is a very stable structure, but a half-finished >one isn't at all stable... I have a feeling that in survival situations you don't make an igloo, but a tunnel that you lay down in. Dig a trench into the snow first, then you just use a few blocks above surface level to make the roof. Pack snow on top of that to seal the gaps. One end is sealed, then after reversing in you use your pack to seal the entrance up beind you. The other alternative is to dig a tunnel. You make it T-shaped for some reason that currently eludes me; the entrance is at the lowest point of the T and you lay across the 'arms'. Biggest problem if you're sheltering is making sure that someone can find you - using the pack to seal the doorway off goes a long way to achieving that but overnight snowfall could still hinder the rescuers. cheers Jules Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From ssj152 at charter.net Fri Feb 7 12:36:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: VAX/PDP docs. received References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB766@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <00aa01c2ced7$743b2980$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Willis" To: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:08 AM Subject: VAX/PDP docs. received > Received from a former DEC service rep.: > > If anyone wants scans of a specific piece, I will probably arrange it. > > > DECstation 2100/3100 Maintenance Guide > VAXstation 3100 Maintenance Information > VAXstation 3100 Illustrated Parts Breakdown I would be interested in the part numbers for these manuals. If these aren't in my library, I would be interested in copies, scans, PDF, etc. I have some hardcopy, but there are SEVERAL versions of the 3100 hardware, all with differing memory configurations, etc. I am also interested in VAXstation 4000 Model 60 Owner's and System Installation Guide. I have: the following manuals in hardcopy: o EK-265AA-OM-001 VAXstation 3100 Model 30 owners manual o EK-260AA-OM-001 VAXstation 3100 Desktop-VMS Advanced Systems Guide / EK-VX31M-UG-001 VAXstation 3100 Model 76 Owners Guide \ EK-BA42A-IN-003 BA42 Storage Expansion Box / EK-VAXOG-IN.A01 VAXstation 4000 Model 90 Owner's and System Installation Guide \ EK-VAXOP-IN.A01 VAXstation 4000 Options Installation Guide which I hope to scan and offer in PDF format. Thanks, Stuart Johnson From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Feb 7 13:55:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ References: <3E43C8BC.21916.5DB5A3F6@localhost> <3E43DDE8.7765.5E085824@localhost> Message-ID: <00b801c2cee2$b1feed00$0100000a@milkyway> Hans Franke wrote: > I used BigMac for all my projects, including the doomed SSC > ROM... (*1) [...] > (*1) I don't know if I already told the story If you have, I've certainly never heard it... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Feb 7 14:34:01 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: OT Avalanches (was: Columbia) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 Feb 2003 18:20:41 GMT." <20030207182041.61952.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200302071936.TAA05276@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Jules Richardson said: > I have a feeling that in survival situations you don't make an igloo, but a > tunnel that you lay down in. Dig a trench into the snow first, then you just > use a few blocks above surface level to make the roof. Pack snow on top of that > to seal the gaps. One end is sealed, then after reversing in you use your pack > to seal the entrance up beind you. > > The other alternative is to dig a tunnel. You make it T-shaped for some reason > that currently eludes me; the entrance is at the lowest point of the T and you > lay across the 'arms'. The cold air sinks to the bottom, and the warm air, from your own body heat, rises to the top, so you lie as high up as possible. You should make a small air hole from the top of your tunnel and make sure you keep it open so as not to suffocate. The small entrance low down reduces the amount of cold air blown in. I hope I never have to do it for real :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jwillis at arielusa.com Fri Feb 7 14:56:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: DEC/PDP documentation received Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB768@deathstar.arielnet.com> I've posted the list on the web... in the process of finishing it and adding the DEC order numbers. http://coherentlogic.dyndns.org/vax/vaxdocs.txt Enjoy! From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 7 14:58:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <00b801c2cee2$b1feed00$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <3E442BC7.32165.5F3885B5@localhost> > > I used BigMac for all my projects, including the doomed SSC > > ROM... (*1) > [...] > > (*1) I don't know if I already told the story > If you have, I've certainly never heard it... Well, It was around 1982 when a friend of mine designed a nice combo card for the apple, at his kitchen table (*1), featuring a 6522 based paralell port, a clock and a SCC compatible serial port. Since I had way to much time on my hand, and did love to programm the Apple, I did the DOS and ProDOS drivers for the clock, and build a 4 system disk, DOS and ProDOS file system on one side, CP/M and Pascal on the other... As I said, the Serial part was 100% SSC compatible, you could just drop in a SSC-ROM to get it working. Mathias had some concerns to just copy the ROM, but he wanted to give our future customers something, so I stared to completly redo the ROM without changeing any known and used entry point.... part of the work was to move code around, but it's not that easy. The Code didn't offer a lot of redundancy, and entry points where scattered all over - one of the bad featured about well docunented software, available in source to everyone (the listing was part of the manual) is that people tend to realy use it. Sp part of the work was figuring out what official and otherwise addresses have been used in various software packets. It took me about a month to redo the ROM. At the end no codesegment larger than 50 bytes was still the same, and less than 70 bytes where still at the same location. Now, when I finaly delivered the ROM I was more than happy. Mathias went the very next day to Apple Germayn (their HQ was at this time just on the other end of town), to show them our card, and he also told them about our full compatible ROM ... just to learn that they didn't had any objections against using A STRAIGHT COPY ... Well, it, lets say, took away a bit of my pride about the new ROM ... That's the story ... Gruss H. (*1) in fact, this was the start of FAST Electronic, later one a quite successful venture, with successfull products from video imageing and high speed digital scopes up to europes leading copy protection dongle (Hard-Lock) and a TiVo like digital TV solution - later on Aladdin bought the Copy Protection parts, and He kept the multi media devision... but that spanns 20 years from that kitchen table. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Technoid at 30below.com Fri Feb 7 15:34:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Atari ST Help In-Reply-To: <20030207170326.60579.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c2cef0$84888e90$6401a8c0@benchbox> I don't know if ICD still sells them, but the Link II I bought new from them in 97' was only $99.00 plus shipping. Of course I have a fair number of spare scsi hdd's around along with a bunch of clone power supplies. I'd guess the whole thing cost me about $130.00. Now, if you get a scsi controller for the ST, you can use it on ANY ST which means if you luck into a Mega or MegaSTE then you won't have to buy anything new. Regards, jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Hartman Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:03 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Atari ST Help Hi Curt! Yes, I know about that site, but they want WAY too much money for a used adapter for an old computer. You would think that at this point, they'd be about $20.00 or so, since I can buy whole ST's for about that price. I just can't justify spending $150.00 or more to put a hard drive on a $20.00 computer. I just want to play... So, I'll keep looking. Maybe I'll spot something cheap on eBay or at the Trenton Computer Festival in May. AERCO was a small Texas company that made little gadgets for the Atari ST, Amiga and Timex/Sinclair computers. When I worked for Zebra Systems, Inc. We sold their products... Regards, Al > From: "Curt Vendel" > Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:13:41 -0500 > > Hi Al, > > Never heard of that particular memory board > before, don't know where you can get a manual. > For a HD you can go to www.myatari.com and buy > a "ICD LINK" Adapter which will give your DMA/ASCI > port full SCSI capabilities, also ask them about > ExtenDOS Gold, its a drivers disk that will allow > the TOS to recognize and use CD-ROM drives too, they > also have a large selection of ST software on > CDROM's > > > > Curt From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 7 15:42:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: DEC/PDP documentation received In-Reply-To: from "John Willis" at Feb 07, 2003 01:53:19 PM Message-ID: <200302072139.h17Ldun04715@shell1.aracnet.com> Nice haul! I'm going to guess that the following would be of definite use to a bunch of us. What are their age? As far as I know they aren't available: EK-LSIFS-SV-005 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Volume I: Systems Options EK-LSIFS-SV-005 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Volume II: Module Options A-K EK-LSIFS-SV-005 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Volume III: Module OptionsL-Z Of potential interest to a select few (again, I've no idea if they're available): VAXsimPLUS Field Service Manual VAXsimPLUS User Guide RM05 Disk Subsystem Service Manual RM05 Disk Subsystem Student Guide (Digital Internal Use Only) RM03 Disk Drive Maint. Print Set RP04/05/06 Field Maint. Print Set Model 733 DEC Disk Storage Drive Parts Catalog, Jan. 1976 RP04-TC Part II RP04, RP05, RP06 Field Svc. Handbook RP05/RP06 Field Handbook -Company Confidential- RP05/06 677-01/51 Disc Drive Illustrated Parts Catalog Model 677-01/51 RP05/06 DEC DISC MAINTENANCE Guide (Educ. Svcs.) Zane From dan at ekoan.com Fri Feb 7 16:04:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Disk drive head locking (DEC RA-82 and HP 7920) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030207170007.054410b0@enigma> Hello, I'm scheduled to pick up a pair of DEC RA-82 drives along with an HP 7920 drive in the next couple of weeks. I don't have any technical documentation for either of these drives, but I'd be very interested in learning the proper procedure for locking down the heads on these drives prior to moving them. If anyone has the steps to take for either or both of these drives, please drop me a note or point me to the proper archive. They've already been warehoused, so it might be too late, but I'd like to be as safe as I can. Thanks! Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Feb 7 16:28:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: DEC/PDP documentation received In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: DEC/PDP documentation received" (Feb 7, 13:39) References: <200302072139.h17Ldun04715@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <10302072225.ZM17212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 7, 13:39, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Nice haul! > > I'm going to guess that the following would be of definite use to a bunch of > us. What are their age? As far as I know they aren't available: > > EK-LSIFS-SV-005 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Volume I: Systems Options > EK-LSIFS-SV-005 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Volume II: Module Options A-K > EK-LSIFS-SV-005 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Volume III: Module OptionsL-Z PDFs of these would certainly be useful to me :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jwillis at arielusa.com Fri Feb 7 16:30:01 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: DEC/PDP documentation received Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB769@deathstar.arielnet.com> 5th Edition, January 1985 -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy Sent: Fri 2/7/2003 2:39 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: DEC/PDP documentation received Nice haul! I'm going to guess that the following would be of definite use to a bunch of us. What are their age? As far as I know they aren't available: EK-LSIFS-SV-005 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Volume I: Systems Options EK-LSIFS-SV-005 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Volume II: Module Options A-K EK-LSIFS-SV-005 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Volume III: Module OptionsL-Z Of potential interest to a select few (again, I've no idea if they're available): VAXsimPLUS Field Service Manual VAXsimPLUS User Guide RM05 Disk Subsystem Service Manual RM05 Disk Subsystem Student Guide (Digital Internal Use Only) RM03 Disk Drive Maint. Print Set RP04/05/06 Field Maint. Print Set Model 733 DEC Disk Storage Drive Parts Catalog, Jan. 1976 RP04-TC Part II RP04, RP05, RP06 Field Svc. Handbook RP05/RP06 Field Handbook -Company Confidential- RP05/06 677-01/51 Disc Drive Illustrated Parts Catalog Model 677-01/51 RP05/06 DEC DISC MAINTENANCE Guide (Educ. Svcs.) Zane [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From jwillis at arielusa.com Fri Feb 7 16:50:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: DEC/PDP documentation received Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB76A@deathstar.arielnet.com> I'll see what I can do. Maybe I can scan them at work. Just found out my UMAX scanner doesn't work under Mac OS X. -----Original Message----- From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com Sent: Fri 2/7/2003 3:25 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: DEC/PDP documentation received On Feb 7, 13:39, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Nice haul! > > I'm going to guess that the following would be of definite use to a bunch of > us. What are their age? As far as I know they aren't available: > > EK-LSIFS-SV-005 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Volume I: Systems Options > EK-LSIFS-SV-005 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Volume II: Module Options A-K > EK-LSIFS-SV-005 LSI-11 Systems Service Manual, Volume III: Module OptionsL-Z PDFs of these would certainly be useful to me :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From jwillis at arielusa.com Fri Feb 7 17:04:01 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB76B@deathstar.arielnet.com> Wanted: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Feb 7 17:06:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Atari ST Help In-Reply-To: <20030207170326.60579.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030207020700.85074.22086.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E43E596.5859.1D880F1F@localhost> Somewhere here I have the manual for installing the Marpet Xtra Ram upgrade. If you think that might help I could scan some relevent pages. There was also an Aussie that was producing an IDE interface and some other things whose site I can't find on my bookmarks now. IIRC his name was Mario ------ and the price wasn't too bad. The nice thing about the IDC Link is that you can hang numerous SCSI peripherals off the HD port like Zip drives, CDROMS, and Scanners. Likely why they still command a good price. Lawrence On 7 Feb 2003, , Al Hartman wrote: > Hi Curt! > > Yes, I know about that site, but they want WAY too > much money for a used adapter for an old computer. > > You would think that at this point, they'd be about > $20.00 or so, since I can buy whole ST's for about > that price. I just can't justify spending $150.00 or > more to put a hard drive on a $20.00 computer. > > I just want to play... > > So, I'll keep looking. Maybe I'll spot something cheap > on eBay or at the Trenton Computer Festival in May. > > AERCO was a small Texas company that made little > gadgets for the Atari ST, Amiga and Timex/Sinclair > computers. When I worked for Zebra Systems, Inc. We > sold their products... > > Regards, > Al > > > > From: "Curt Vendel" > > Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:13:41 -0500 > > > > Hi Al, > > > > Never heard of that particular memory board > > before, don't know where you can get a manual. > > For a HD you can go to www.myatari.com and buy > > a "ICD LINK" Adapter which will give your DMA/ASCI > > port full SCSI capabilities, also ask them about > > ExtenDOS Gold, its a drivers disk that will allow > > the TOS to recognize and use CD-ROM drives too, they > > also have a large selection of ST software on > > CDROM's > > > > > > > > Curt lgwalker@ mts.net From univac2 at earthlink.net Fri Feb 7 17:26:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Rookie HP-85 problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/7/03 12:11 PM, RHahm at rhahm@nycap.rr.com wrote: > OK, I took it apart to take alook inside and clean it up. Now I can't get > the damn cover back on. > It seems to get caught on the tape eject button. Don't want to break the > cover forcing it. The eject button pops off when you pull on it, and then snaps back on once you've gotten the cover back on. Took me a while to figure that out. :-) -- Owen Robertson From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 7 17:31:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <3E43C8BC.21916.5DB5A3F6@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > Any calls to position the cursor? > > $20-$23 Window size > $24,25 Cursor Not that just setting these addresses does not automatically move the cursor. You must also call $FBC1, which calculates the base address of the screen memory where the cursor is and updates the requisite zero page addresses. > After all RTFM ! THe manual did list all of this and more. including the > Monitor ROM listing. Ron, I have a copy of the DOS manual if you need it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Technoid at 30below.com Fri Feb 7 17:33:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Atari ST Help In-Reply-To: <3E43E596.5859.1D880F1F@localhost> Message-ID: <000a01c2cf01$16004ab0$6401a8c0@benchbox> BTW, the Link II's they are selling are NEW. Call and ask or leave an email. I just checked their catalog. The link I bough was from them IIRC. It came in it's original packaging and was perfect in all respects. Still is perfect though now used... ;-) Regards, Jeff > Yes, I know about that site, but they want WAY too > much money for a used adapter for an old computer. > > You would think that at this point, they'd be... lgwalker@ mts.net From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 7 17:33:20 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <3E43DDE8.7765.5E085824@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > I used BigMac for all my projects, including the doomed SSC > ROM... (*1) > > > Gruss > H. > (*1) I don't know if I already told the story I told you I would optimize your code for you :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 7 17:40:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Unassembled Superboard II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Someone sent me an unassembled Ohio Scientific Superboard II kit in its > > original box the other day. > > Oh! You lucky son-of-a-gun! What REV? The solder mask on the board says "Ohio Scientific Model 600 CPU" and "REV D". The manual is copyright 1982 and the original invoice is dated August 4, 1982. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 7 17:46:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <006f01c2ceab$56c0ca80$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > p.s. I also did quite well with 6502 asm code in cpu speed tests vs > 80x86 and Z80 programmers. The zero page, for all intents and purposes, > is 256 registers. 6502 is single cycle instruction execution. Look up > definitions of RISC and the 6502 is arguably RISC-like. No 6502 instruction takes less than 2 cycles to complete. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dittman at dittman.net Fri Feb 7 17:49:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB76B@deathstar.arielnet.com> from "John Willis" at Feb 07, 2003 04:02:11 PM Message-ID: <200302072346.h17Nk3o8015120@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Wanted: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel Where are you located? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 7 17:54:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: interesting find In-Reply-To: from "Thilo Schmidt" at Feb 6, 3 11:04:30 pm Message-ID: > And when nobody cared about the size, weight and power consumption > of computers... ;-) > > > The HP 9100A/B calculators use a similar architecture, using > > wire bobbins instead of rods, for a microsequence store. The HP9100B was entirely discrete transistors [1], with normal R/W core memory, the core-on-a-rope microcde store and inductively coupled PCB tracks for the main program ROM. The HP9810 which replaced it was built from TTL chips, with 256 nybble PROMs for the microocde store (and the ALU, which was a couple of programmed PROMs), 512 byte ROMs for the main program store, and 256 bit DRAMs (1103s) for the R/W memory. Admittedly the 9810 had space for an internal thermal printer, and it had more user memory. But in the basic configuration it did less ('Math' functions, like SIN, COS, TAN were on a plug-in ROM module on the 9810, and bulit-in on the 9100). But the 9810 (the machine built with ICs) is larger than the 9100. [1] OK, there are 8 IC op-amps in the 9100B on the card reader PCB (read amplifier and comparator for the 3 data tracks and the clock track). But the machine will run without the card reader ;-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 7 17:55:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: <10302070008.ZM16334@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "pete@dunnington.u-net.com" at Feb 7, 3 00:08:40 am Message-ID: > On Feb 6, 22:33, Tony Duell wrote: > > > I don't see how you can do a proper test without a visual inspection > of > > the connections... And I've yet to see a moulded connector that > provides > > a proper strain-relief for the cable. > > A good PAT tester will check at a sensible current (though admittedly a > lot only check earth continuity at a proper current). As for strain I've never met a PAT tester that tests the current-carrying conductors at a significant current, mainly because there's no easy way to do this without dismantling the unit under test (if the cable is fixed) -- the maximum current you could pass would be the normal operating current of the unit (by simply applying mains to it), which is not enough. Even then you couldn't measure the voltage drop across one of the conductors. You may have guessed that I don't trust PAT testers, and I have no faith at all in the safety standards as usually applied. Proper safety tests on the other hand... > releif, well you're not supposed to swing the equipment by the power > cable, Tony! True, but equally I don't expect the outer covering of the cable to pull out of the moulded connector in normal use exposing the single-insulated wires inside. Which has happened to many moulded cables round here. I assume you'd fail a rewirable plug with the cord grip missing/not used on an electrical safety test. I certainly would. But most moulded cables are not a lot better than that. > > The cable mounted section looks like a normal 'cold condition' > _socket_, > > but there are 3 round pins sticking out of the face of it (where the > > socket holes would be). The chassis part looks like the normal plug > > (recessed into the panel, etc) with 3 holes in it in place of the > normal > > plug pins. > > I've a feeling I've seen this used somewhere -- but not recently, and I > can't think where :-( I've thought of another place I've seen them used. Leitz Focomat 1 enlarger, at the top of the column. Connector for the lampholder assembly. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 7 17:57:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Rookie HP-85 problem In-Reply-To: from "RHahm" at Feb 7, 3 01:11:55 pm Message-ID: > OK, I took it apart to take alook inside and clean it up. Now I can't get > the damn cover back on. > It seems to get caught on the tape eject button. Don't want to break the > cover forcing it. > > Are you supposed to separate the monitor/tape brown faceplate from the rest > of the cover first? No, pull off the eject button (you should do this before removing the cover). Then the cover fits easily. Put the button back on when the cover is screwed in place. -tony From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Feb 7 18:10:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Old Computer Companies References: <20030206184504.78789.18688.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <3E43213C.5060201@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3E444A70.9040408@gifford.co.uk> Hans B Pufal wrote: >> Eliott computers from UK. What happened to them? I mean Eliott, not N...a There are a few Elliot 803s preserved in Britain. One at Bletchley Park, another at the Science Museum, and probably others. They have an interesting power supply: the incoming mains is used to charge a *big* Ni-Cd battery, which powers the computer. The same battery is used in the Nimrod aircraft, and the RAF have kindly supplied spares for the 803s. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Feb 7 18:17:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <20030207151636.28607.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3E43C8BC.21916.5DB5A3F6@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030207160043.00a5a310@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > > Get a copy of BigMac, and go ahead. it's a nice all in one > > environment, and works fine on every Apple. > >Oh Yeah! BigMac (or as we used to call it at Software Productions, >"BigHack"). My favorite was always LISA, Laser Interactive Symbolic Assembler, a complete editor/asm/runtime kind of setup. I need to look around and figure what the status is of the program, but I have most of the versions of it that ever existed. From jwillis at arielusa.com Fri Feb 7 19:04:01 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB76D@deathstar.arielnet.com> New Mexico, USA -----Original Message----- From: Eric Dittman Sent: Fri 2/7/2003 4:46 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel > Wanted: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel Where are you located? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Feb 7 19:27:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable" (Feb 7, 23:21) References: Message-ID: <10302080124.ZM17378@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 7, 23:21, Tony Duell wrote: > > On Feb 6, 22:33, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > I don't see how you can do a proper test without a visual inspection > > of > > > the connections... And I've yet to see a moulded connector that > > provides > > > a proper strain-relief for the cable. > > > > A good PAT tester will check at a sensible current (though admittedly a > > lot only check earth continuity at a proper current). As for strain > > I've never met a PAT tester that tests the current-carrying conductors at > a significant current, mainly because there's no easy way to do this > without dismantling the unit under test (if the cable is fixed) -- the > maximum current you could pass would be the normal operating current of > the unit (by simply applying mains to it), which is not enough. Even then > you couldn't measure the voltage drop across one of the conductors. A proper PAT tester to current standards has a socket for each end of an IEC cable, and each cable is supposed to be individually tested with both ends plugged in to the tester. > > releif, well you're not supposed to swing the equipment by the power > > cable, Tony! > > True, but equally I don't expect the outer covering of the cable to pull > out of the moulded connector in normal use exposing the single-insulated > wires inside. Which has happened to many moulded cables round here. I've only seen one do that -- and it was an instant candidate for the wirecutters at both ends. A proper visual inspection is supposed to be the first part of the PAT. > I assume you'd fail a rewirable plug with the cord grip missing/not used > on an electrical safety test. I certainly would. Yes. The first thing I do with any multiblock is take it apart to see how the ends are wired -- the cheap ones are usually in a condition where I feel compelled to re-do the job. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From CCTalk at catcorner.org Fri Feb 7 19:30:00 2003 From: CCTalk at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B829@308server.308dole.com> Yes, the OS allows entering of drive geometry. Actually only supports MFM up to 70Meg. RLL drives will of course work, just not to RLL capacity. I'm looking for the largest drives I can find. From: Ethan Dicks --- Kelly Leavitt wrote: > Any good sources of MFM or RLL drives. This would be for a Tandy 6000 > running Xenix. > > I'm looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity). Hmm... those aren't so common (in the DEC world, there are two choices - the RD53 (Miniscribe 1325) and the RD54 (Maxtor XT2190). I take it you aren't constrained by a narrow set of expected geometries? (i.e. - you have a running system and/or the install procedure asks you about the drive rather than assuming?) -ethan From jwillis at arielusa.com Fri Feb 7 19:40:01 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Disk drive head locking (DEC RA-82 and HP 7920) Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB76E@deathstar.arielnet.com> I seem to have only up to RA81, but everything else :( -----Original Message----- From: Dan Veeneman Sent: Fri 2/7/2003 3:04 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Disk drive head locking (DEC RA-82 and HP 7920) Hello, I'm scheduled to pick up a pair of DEC RA-82 drives along with an HP 7920 drive in the next couple of weeks. I don't have any technical documentation for either of these drives, but I'd be very interested in learning the proper procedure for locking down the heads on these drives prior to moving them. If anyone has the steps to take for either or both of these drives, please drop me a note or point me to the proper archive. They've already been warehoused, so it might be too late, but I'd like to be as safe as I can. Thanks! Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From jwillis at arielusa.com Fri Feb 7 19:46:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB76F@deathstar.arielnet.com> I have an RD54 available... no idea whether its working. -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Leavitt Sent: Fri 2/7/2003 6:12 PM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org ' Cc: Subject: RE: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives Yes, the OS allows entering of drive geometry. Actually only supports MFM up to 70Meg. RLL drives will of course work, just not to RLL capacity. I'm looking for the largest drives I can find. From: Ethan Dicks --- Kelly Leavitt wrote: > Any good sources of MFM or RLL drives. This would be for a Tandy 6000 > running Xenix. > > I'm looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity). Hmm... those aren't so common (in the DEC world, there are two choices - the RD53 (Miniscribe 1325) and the RD54 (Maxtor XT2190). I take it you aren't constrained by a narrow set of expected geometries? (i.e. - you have a running system and/or the install procedure asks you about the drive rather than assuming?) -ethan [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 7 20:25:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Rookie HP-85 problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030207212705.0f37a710@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Pull on the tape eject button. It's mounted on a stud and will pull right off. Just push it back on to re-install it. Joe At 01:11 PM 2/7/03 -0500, you wrote: >OK, I took it apart to take alook inside and clean it up. Now I can't get >the damn cover back on. >It seems to get caught on the tape eject button. Don't want to break the >cover forcing it. > >Are you supposed to separate the monitor/tape brown faceplate from the rest >of the cover first? > >HELP > >RH From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 7 20:37:00 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030208023500.HERT20375.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > That's extremely good news. > > Unfortunately, my experience in repairing the samsung TV's is that you > *start* by replacing about AUS $50 worth of power supply components, then > you see what else failed. > > AARRGGH. > > > Doug Jackson > to speed? That's right. It shattered. I spent 25 minutes > picking bits of CD > out of the mechanism. And then I powered it up again. And it came up to > speed and read a CD fine. Guess that says something about > Samsung CD drives > then... Unfortunately, the other Samsung 48x drive I was given > really was > dead - the spindle motor bearings seized up... Hey, hot damn, thought I left Samsjunk back there at end of day today at tv shop. :-P Been battling with a Samsung tv for long time ( no pix but good audio, all the must haves are there). :-( Samsung do better in monitors, occasionally one comes up with bizzarre fault that takes eons to track down. Their samsung TVs is the worst. Insert your favourite brand of cd stuff drives week: Sleeve bearings are basically same in any cd, dvd, whatever that uses CD or DVD format these days. This is unusual on yours to seize up. The very old ones had ball bearings which is nice but unfortunely they got died off from chipset failures or very slow. Cheers, Wizard > > Later. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From kenziem at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 7 21:24:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: OT Avalanches (was: Columbia) In-Reply-To: <200302071936.TAA05276@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200302071936.TAA05276@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20030208032111.GSZA11926.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Friday 07 February 2003 14:36, Stan Barr wrote: > Hi, > > Jules Richardson said: > > I have a feeling that in survival situations you don't make an igloo, but > > a tunnel that you lay down in. Dig a trench into the snow first, then you > > just use a few blocks above surface level to make the roof. Pack snow on > > top of that to seal the gaps. One end is sealed, then after reversing in > > you use your pack to seal the entrance up beind you. > > > > The other alternative is to dig a tunnel. You make it T-shaped for some > > reason that currently eludes me; the entrance is at the lowest point of > > the T and you lay across the 'arms'. > > The cold air sinks to the bottom, and the warm air, from your own body > heat, rises to the top, so you lie as high up as possible. You should > make a small air hole from the top of your tunnel and make sure you keep > it open so as not to suffocate. The small entrance low down reduces the > amount of cold air blown in. I hope I never have to do it for real :-) I made the mistake one winter evening of not making the step large enough and found my face frozen to my sleeping bag in the morning. My EX became claustrophobic while in the snow shelter and tried to dig her way through the roof. My current wife has managed to avoid my usual christmas camping trip, but she tolerates my machines in the basement and lets the overflow go into the dinning room. I've got a pair of commodore Pets to pick up as well as few apples and I can't hide any more in the house. She found the terminal I had in the car trunk today. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 7 22:15:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is collecting/storing them? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030206110633.00b91650@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: > Hewlett-Packard is hoping a little green will help make computer owners > recycle more of their old tech gear. The computer maker is testing a no, they are hoping that a little green will help make computer owners get rid of their "old" tech gear and buy more new stuff. > meets the charities' minimum standards. "For the most part what we get in > here is pretty darn old," St. Denis said. HP's recycling program accepts . . . some of it is as much as two years old!!!! A while back, HP began to "recycle" toner cartridges for the purpose of making fewer empties available for refilling (which competes with their new cartridge sales). What do YOU think their primary motivation is?? "Re: Old computers from HP, maybe?" ^^^^ It is a ONE-WAY process, of old computers going TO HP to remove them from circulation. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From allain at panix.com Fri Feb 7 22:31:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:39 2005 Subject: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is collecting/storing them? References: Message-ID: <001701c2cf2a$85db19e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > A while back, HP began to "recycle" toner cartridges for the > purpose of making fewer empties available for refilling (which > competes with their new cartridge sales). New cartridge sales?? I bought one of their "New" cartridges. Here's what the small print says: "This newly manufactured product may contain parts and materials recovered from the HP Printing Supplies Return and Recycling Program." > What do YOU think their primary motivation is?? Selling refills themselves, But just Calling them new. John A. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Feb 7 23:02:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives References: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B829@308server.308dole.com> Message-ID: <3E448EC6.614F07A@compsys.to> >Kelly Leavitt wrote: > > I'm looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity). > Hmm... those aren't so common (in the DEC world, there are two > choices - the RD53 (Miniscribe 1325) and the RD54 (Maxtor XT2190). Jerome Fine replies: By the way, the RD53 is a Micropolis 1325 or 1335 with the R7 jumper added to the logic board. Otherwise, the DEC RQDX2 will not recognize the drive. I have never tried them on the RQDX3 without the R7 jumper, but it might be possible - probably NOT. And while there may still be rare occasions when you can actually complete the FORMAT required for an RD53, I would recommend that they be used ONLY for scratch at this point at the end of their life cycle. I suppose that there might still be the odd RD53 that is still living a good life, but most (almost all) have become so unreliable that I strongly recommend NOT using them for any files you care to see the next time you turn the computer on. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From fernande at internet1.net Fri Feb 7 23:28:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: OT Avalanches (was: Columbia) In-Reply-To: <20030208032111.GSZA11926.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> References: <200302071936.TAA05276@citadel.metropolis.local> <20030208032111.GSZA11926.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3E4493CA.1010507@internet1.net> Mike wrote: > I've got a pair of commodore Pets to pick up as well as few apples and I > can't hide any more in the house. She found the terminal I had in the car > trunk today. Weight.... it's weight for traction in the snow, yes that's it :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Feb 7 23:34:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is collecting/storing them? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030206110633.00b91650@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <20030208055758.GC648@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Fred Cisin (XenoSoft), from writings of Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 08:13:09PM -0800: > > Hewlett-Packard is hoping a little green will help make computer owners > > recycle more of their old tech gear. The computer maker is testing a > > no, they are hoping that a little green will help make computer owners get > rid of their "old" tech gear and buy more new stuff. Wasn't HP the company that was saving and preserving the "vintage" computer equipment turned back in to them? I think I read something about this on their web site, or somewhere, about a year or two ago. That's not to say they weren't scrapping newer equipment, however, and I don't recall reading how old the equipment had to be to qualify for preservation. > What do YOU think their primary motivation is?? > > > "Re: Old computers from HP, maybe?" > ^^^^ > It is a ONE-WAY process, of old computers going TO HP to remove them from > circulation. Yep... even the vintage ones if they still save them from being scrapped; surely they still get sent off to a warehouse somewhere to keep them out of circulation. Speaking of circulation, an HP-3000 Series III computer running MPE-IV was used to process data for the circulation department of the Baltimore Sun back around 1990... it was quite a contrast to see that, and it's disk farm, right across the room from a sea of big blue cabinets for an IBM mainframe system. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Feb 7 23:36:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: OT Avalanches (was: Columbia) In-Reply-To: <20030208032111.GSZA11926.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> References: <200302071936.TAA05276@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <3E4440E8.5417.1EECD485@localhost> ROTFL . For a moment there I figured you had been forced to spend a frosty Ottawa night on your steps because you brought home, over your wifes objections, one computer too many. Lawrence On 7 Feb 2003, , Mike wrote: > On Friday 07 February 2003 14:36, Stan Barr wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Jules Richardson said: > > > I have a feeling that in survival situations you don't > > > make an igloo, but a tunnel that you lay down in. Dig a > > > trench into the snow first, then you just use a few > > > blocks above surface level to make the roof. Pack snow > > > on top of that to seal the gaps. One end is sealed, then > > > after reversing in you use your pack to seal the > > > entrance up beind you. > > > > > > The other alternative is to dig a tunnel. You make it > > > T-shaped for some reason that currently eludes me; the > > > entrance is at the lowest point of the T and you lay > > > across the 'arms'. > > > > The cold air sinks to the bottom, and the warm air, from > > your own body heat, rises to the top, so you lie as high > > up as possible. You should make a small air hole from the > > top of your tunnel and make sure you keep it open so as > > not to suffocate. The small entrance low down reduces the > > amount of cold air blown in. I hope I never have to do it > > for real :-) > > I made the mistake one winter evening of not making the step > large enough and found my face frozen to my sleeping bag in > the morning. My EX became claustrophobic while in the snow > shelter and tried to dig her way through the roof. My > current wife has managed to avoid my usual christmas camping > trip, but she tolerates my machines in the basement and lets > the overflow go into the dinning room. > > I've got a pair of commodore Pets to pick up as well as few > apples and I can't hide any more in the house. She found > the terminal I had in the car trunk today. lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Feb 7 23:36:11 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Atari ST Help In-Reply-To: <000a01c2cf01$16004ab0$6401a8c0@benchbox> References: <3E43E596.5859.1D880F1F@localhost> Message-ID: <3E4440E8.20185.1EECD45D@localhost> Hmmm how did my address get into this ? As the old flame went "check your attributes" and in this case your deletions. Lawrence On 7 Feb 2003, , Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > BTW, the Link II's they are selling are NEW. Call and ask or > leave an email. I just checked their catalog. The link I > bough was from them IIRC. It came in it's original packaging > and was perfect in all respects. Still is perfect though now > used... ;-) > > Regards, > > Jeff > > > Yes, I know about that site, but they want WAY too > > much money for a used adapter for an old computer. > > > > You would think that at this point, they'd be... > > > > lgwalker@ mts.net lgwalker@ mts.net From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Sat Feb 8 05:47:01 2003 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: VAXELN HELP!! needed Message-ID: <003501c2cf67$6410d100$e5eff1c3@comouter4> Hi All, VAXELN is new to me, but I am reasonably at home in the internals of RSX11M, MTS and OS 360. I was called in by the application programmer when he encountered a somewhat deep problem. One or two times a month in the 3rd of three RT1000 running V4.0 of VAXELN the two communications tasks with the microVax 3300 running VMS 5.2 stop. One with access violation, reason mask 05 and one with access violation or with a kernel stack not valid exception. These tasks are identical and each serves its own sorting unit. The VAXELN systems use the DDCMP_V2 module. The systems run continuously. The stop address is for both tasks always in the DAP module (from june 7 1989) at 1FFC from the start It looks as if the FP register contains 0 during the last CLRB -4C4(FP) intruction.I conclude this from the virtual address =FFFFFB3C message.. The system stopped at the same location during startup earlier in the project each time when the 3rd realtime vax was started, but then:maximum links was 32 and maximum circuits was16. This error disappeared when these quantities were doubled to maximum links=64 and maximum circuits=32. The earlier values were ok during the years when only two realtime vaxes were active.and with 2 realtime vaxes these crashes were not noticed. The realtime vaxes all have the remote debugger. The installation is 140 km from my home. It looks as if register information is hard to get at. Suggestions? Has anyone encountered a similar error? Who has suggestions?. When this gets highly detailed contact off list might be best. Any help will be greatly appreciated! Wim From cbajpai at attbi.com Sat Feb 8 07:19:00 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Unassembled Superboard II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c2cf74$45a6a3e0$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Some people just have all the luck :-) -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill Sudbrink Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:08 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Unassembled Superboard II Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Someone sent me an unassembled Ohio Scientific Superboard II kit in its > original box the other day. Oh! You lucky son-of-a-gun! What REV? From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sat Feb 8 07:41:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Burroughs References: <3E3D66B0.1090102@student.charleshays.net> Message-ID: <00be01c2cf76$6267de20$a3404542@starfury> Those *are* as old as you think, if the desktop pc portion is roughly 5x8x12, with all the hardware crammed in on vertical daughter boards... I had one of those on my desk back in my USAF days... It was networked into a C3 "megaframe," that sat on the floor in the hallway by our shared receptionist's desk (she had acces to everything...). Cheers... Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean" To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 12:42 PM Subject: Burroughs > Hi folks , > > >And, while we're asking, does anyone know what happened to Burroughs? > > >The Burroughs corporation eventually merged with Sperry Univac and got > >absorbed into Unisys > > > > > I've been lurking for a while , have a few old box's about but the > ones i'm curious to > know the rareity of are 3 Burroughs desktop type units from early 80's > they are all 3 > different models one newer 85 maybe , I'd have to dig them out and check > the model > numbers if need be , they all run the "B-20" operating system and booted > and ran the > last time they were plugged in (one is a smart terminal type ala net > boot) . On a couple > occasions i've searched all over the net for information and found very > little other than > the company history stored at the Babbage institute . Are these things > as odd as I think > they are or has info and availability just managed to elude me ? > Thanks for your time > Dean. From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sat Feb 8 07:45:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, References: <200302042121.QAA01516@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <00d901c2cf76$f40d0620$a3404542@starfury> Hmm... Seems like ya just can't win... lotsa heat, no light and no electricity, and they'll come looking for ya too... :) Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 03:21 PM Subject: Re: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks (was: Gulf War, dummies, > And thusly Zane H. Healy spake: > > > > What I've been wondering about is, how long before we start setting off > > alarms in some Government agency due to our abnormally high use of > > electricity? Or due to the abnormally high level of heat in area's of our > > home? > > hmmm... Lots of electricity + lots of heat... add in lots of light and you > have something else for them to look for... > > Cheers, > > Bryan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 8 08:18:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives In-Reply-To: <3E448EC6.614F07A@compsys.to> Message-ID: <20030208141524.13221.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > Jerome Fine replies: > > By the way, the RD53 is a Micropolis 1325 or 1335 with the > R7 jumper added to the logic board. Otherwise, the DEC > RQDX2 will not recognize the drive. I have never tried them > on the RQDX3 without the R7 jumper, but it might be possible - > probably NOT. The RQDX3 will not "know" that the 1325 is an RD53 without the R7 jumper, either. I have added it to several (there was an AT&T PC that had the 1325 as a standard option - I got to scrap several at work many years ago and kept the drives). -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 8 08:24:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB76B@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <20030208142115.11191.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Willis wrote: > Wanted: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel Are these things common/rare? Absolutely required or are they just very nice to have? I have a couple of RA70 drives I got in a box with some KDA50s. Was going to put them in my BA123 with a KA630 processor. Haven't had the chance - still using a pair of RD54s. So... has anyone tried to put RA7X drives in a CPU (not disk) enclosure? If I'm hosed, then I guess I'm in the market for a drive enclosure, too (unless there's some way to hack up an old AT-style tower case...) -ethan From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Feb 8 09:47:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8BC5840B-3B7C-11D7-9462-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Friday, February 7, 2003, at 03:25 PM, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > >>> Any calls to position the cursor? >> >> $20-$23 Window size >> $24,25 Cursor > > Not that just setting these addresses does not automatically move the > cursor. You must also call $FBC1, which calculates the base address of > the screen memory where the cursor is and updates the requisite zero > page > addresses. > >> After all RTFM ! THe manual did list all of this and more. including >> the >> Monitor ROM listing. > > Ron, I have a copy of the DOS manual if you need it. Thanks! I only have the Applesoft Basic manual. I think I can also get the AppleII user's manual, is that good enough given that I have an Apple IIC+? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From oliv555 at arrl.net Sat Feb 8 10:05:01 2003 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel In-Reply-To: <20030208142115.11191.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030208142115.11191.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E452A01.9040603@arrl.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- John Willis wrote: > >>Wanted: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel > > > Are these things common/rare? Absolutely required or are they just > very nice to have? I have a couple of RA70 drives I got in a box > with some KDA50s. Was going to put them in my BA123 with a KA630 > processor. Haven't had the chance - still using a pair of RD54s. > > So... has anyone tried to put RA7X drives in a CPU (not disk) > enclosure? If I'm hosed, then I guess I'm in the market for > a drive enclosure, too (unless there's some way to hack up an > old AT-style tower case...) > > -ethan > I recommend you try to get hold of a chassis that came with the RA7x drive(s). Found out the hard way how difficult it is to assemble the unique set of internal cabling required. Don't know if anyone's found a workaround for that control panel though. -nick o houston, tx From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Sat Feb 8 10:20:01 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ References: Message-ID: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Sellam Ismail, I'm either being imprecise or various readings I have done were imprecise. The reference to "one cycle" instruction may have been referring to there being 2 cpu cycles per clock cycle. Also, there's the "pipelining" some say the 6502 does when the last (or only) byte of an instruction is acted upon simultaneous to next instruction's 1st byte (opcode) being fetched So perhaps "one instruction per clock cycle" may be awfully close with pipelining and with use of zero page. Of course, we're talking Apple ]['s which, if I can trust my memory, steal every other clock cycle to refresh memory. Cheers, - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 18:40 Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > p.s. I also did quite well with 6502 asm code in cpu speed tests vs > > 80x86 and Z80 programmers. The zero page, for all intents and purposes, > > is 256 registers. 6502 is single cycle instruction execution. Look up > > definitions of RISC and the 6502 is arguably RISC-like. > > No 6502 instruction takes less than 2 cycles to complete. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Sat Feb 8 10:20:29 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ References: Message-ID: <00d601c2cf8d$a20d1560$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Not sure if this was mentioned as another option: There's the MERLIN assembler. Versions for ProDos and DOS 3.3. - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 00:19 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > What do I need to get started with 6502 Assembly on an apple II? From lgomez at cdromsa.es Sat Feb 8 10:34:00 2003 From: lgomez at cdromsa.es (lgomez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Grundy Newbrain fix In-Reply-To: <3E43E246.2040601@inet.uni2.dk> Message-ID: Please, can you say me how can i solve this problem? I've a Newbrain AD with the same problem. Regards On Fri, 07 Feb 2003 17:43:50 +0100 Torben Ring wrote: > Hi, > > I have a Grundy Newbrain, which wouldn't start, or if it > started it would only show random chars in the display. > I've found out what was wrong with the machine and if > anyone needs help with fixing his (or hers) machine, I'll > be able to point to the problem. As far as I can tell, > this is a common problem with all these machines, and it > only gets worse as time goes by. > > Regards, > > Torben Ring From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Feb 8 11:25:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: OT Need parts Message-ID: <3E453E26.9070205@charter.net> I need one of the beige plastic headed screws that secure the side cover on a Dell Dimension case. The is for my UMAX S900 that shares a PaloAlto Design case with the earlier Dell Dimensions. I also need two blank drive filler panels for a HP NetServer LC II. James -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From dittman at dittman.net Sat Feb 8 11:31:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: VAXELN HELP!! needed In-Reply-To: <003501c2cf67$6410d100$e5eff1c3@comouter4> from "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" at Feb 08, 2003 12:43:14 PM Message-ID: <200302081728.h18HSBef021235@narnia.int.dittman.net> > VAXELN is new to me, but I am reasonably at home in the internals of RSX11M, > MTS and OS 360. I was called in by the application programmer when he > encountered a somewhat deep problem. > One or two times a month in the 3rd of three RT1000 running V4.0 of VAXELN > the two communications tasks with the microVax 3300 running VMS 5.2 stop. > One with access violation, reason mask 05 and one with access violation or > with a kernel stack not valid exception. These tasks are identical and each > serves its own sorting unit. The VAXELN systems use the DDCMP_V2 module. The > systems run continuously. The stop address is for both tasks always in the > DAP module (from june 7 1989) at 1FFC from the start > It looks as if the FP register contains 0 during the last CLRB -4C4(FP) > intruction.I conclude this from the virtual address =FFFFFB3C message.. > The system stopped at the same location during startup earlier in the > project each time when the 3rd realtime vax was started, but then:maximum > links was 32 and maximum circuits was16. This error disappeared when these > quantities were doubled to maximum links=64 and maximum circuits=32. The > earlier values were ok during the years when only two realtime vaxes were > active.and with 2 realtime vaxes these crashes were not noticed. > The realtime vaxes all have the remote debugger. The installation is 140 km > from my home. > It looks as if register information is hard to get at. Suggestions? > Has anyone encountered a similar error? Who has suggestions?. > When this gets highly detailed contact off list might be best. [I'd trim the above if it didn't mean cutting something out that should stay] First off, In my experience with VAXELN 4.x you can see these sort of failures due to excess network traffic. We solved that problem by isolating the VAXELN system on a local network and put two network interfaces in the VMS system and set it up as a DECnet router (because we needed the VMS system to talk to both networks). If there's not a problem with increasing maximum links and maximum circuits, and that solves the problem, then you can just leave those values doubled. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Feb 8 11:47:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: OT Avalanches (was: Columbia) References: <200302071936.TAA05276@citadel.metropolis.local> <3E4440E8.5417.1EECD485@localhost> Message-ID: <3E454184.6070409@jetnet.ab.ca> Lawrence Walker wrote: > ROTFL . For a moment there I figured you had been > forced to spend a frosty Ottawa night on your steps > because you brought home, over your wifes objections, > one computer too many. You just build a igloo out of old computers. :) Ben. From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Feb 8 11:51:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: OT Need parts In-Reply-To: <3E453E26.9070205@charter.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030208123848.02d43c28@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that James Rice may have mentioned these words: >I need one of the beige plastic headed screws that secure the side cover >on a Dell Dimension case. The is for my UMAX S900 that shares a PaloAlto >Design case with the earlier Dell Dimensions. I have one... where should I send it? Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Feb 8 12:06:01 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: OT Need parts In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030208123848.02d43c28@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030208123848.02d43c28@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3E4547CE.70204@charter.net> Hi roger, My shipping address is: James Rice 1819 Bristol Ln Rockwall, TX 75032 How much for the screw and shipping? Thanks, James Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that James Rice may have mentioned these words: > >> I need one of the beige plastic headed screws that secure the side >> cover on a Dell Dimension case. The is for my UMAX S900 that shares >> a PaloAlto Design case with the earlier Dell Dimensions. > > > I have one... where should I send it? > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > zmerch@30below.com > > What do you do when Life gives you lemons, > and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Feb 8 12:08:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: OT Need parts In-Reply-To: <3E4547CE.70204@charter.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030208123848.02d43c28@mail.30below.com> <3E4547CE.70204@charter.net> Message-ID: <3E45484D.30804@charter.net> Sorry, that was supposed to go off list James -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Feb 8 13:08:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: "Jim Keohane" "Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+" (Feb 8, 11:06) References: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Message-ID: <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 8, 11:06, Jim Keohane wrote: > The reference to "one cycle" instruction may have been referring > to there being 2 cpu cycles per clock cycle. Also, there's the "pipelining" > some say the 6502 does when the last (or only) byte of an instruction is > acted upon simultaneous to next instruction's 1st byte (opcode) being > fetched > > So perhaps "one instruction per clock cycle" may be awfully close with > pipelining and with use of zero page. You must be thinking of some different 6502 to the rest of us :-) As Sellam said, no 6502 opcode takes less than two clock cycles to execute, and most take more (up to 7): the only 2-cycle instructions are the ones with implied addressing, like RTS, CLI, TAX, ... This is why a 6502 running typical well-written code, running on a 2MHz clock, manages at best around 0.7 MIPS. There's no pipelining at all in a 6502. No overlap of instructions whatsoever. Zero-page instructions like LDA $12 take three clock cycles. There aren't two CPU cycles per clock cycle. Perhaps you're thinking of the fact that the 6502 uses a two-phase clock, and does part of the CPU cycle during phi-1, and part during phi-2? > Of course, we're talking Apple ]['s which, if I can trust my memory, > steal every other clock cycle to refresh memory. I believe you're thinking of how it uses part of the clock cycle when the CPU isn't accessing memory, not alternate clock cycles. > > > p.s. I also did quite well with 6502 asm code in cpu speed tests vs > > > 80x86 and Z80 programmers. The zero page, for all intents and purposes, > > > is 256 registers. That was the designers' intention, but you have to remember that it takes an extra clock cycle to access a zero-page location rather than a register. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foo at siconic.com Sat Feb 8 13:10:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <8BC5840B-3B7C-11D7-9462-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > > Ron, I have a copy of the DOS manual if you need it. > > Thanks! I only have the Applesoft Basic manual. I think I can also get > the AppleII user's manual, is that good enough given that I have an > Apple IIC+? Yes. The ROM is fundamentally the same. There are some significant differences but an Apple ][ is an Apple ][ for the most part. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Feb 8 13:26:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: DEC BA35X and HSZ40C docs? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA3A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi All, Today I spent driving up and down to a place that had a bunch of interesting stuff for me. Amongst others, some VAX 4000 stuff, a truckload of DSSI disks, and: some StorageWorks stuff. The haul included two HSCZ40C controller cabs, cables, and several (empty) BA356-JC storage cabs. I still have a bunch of RZ28's in their SW trays, so plugged them in, for fun. Everything seems to be alive, I could use some docs on this, though.. esp. the HSZ40C controller, which obviously needs to be configured through its [unknown pinout] serial port... Thx, Fred From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Feb 8 13:43:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: [OT] Patriot Act Expansion (was: Collecting, Hacking and the Spooks) In-Reply-To: <00d901c2cf76$f40d0620$a3404542@starfury> References: <200302042121.QAA01516@wordstock.com> <00d901c2cf76$f40d0620$a3404542@starfury> Message-ID: <20030208200629.GA4073@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Ed Tillman, from writings of Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 07:35:27AM -0600: > Hmm... Seems like ya just can't win... lotsa heat, no light and no > electricity, and they'll come looking for ya too... :) ...and no right to a fair trial, midnight knocks at the door, secret arrests, new death penalties, revocation of citizenship for "belonging to disfavored political groups," DNA database, etc. Read all about the proposed expansion of the "Patriot" Act (is that Orwellian doublespeak, or what? 'W'easelboy's surely some creation of mad science, not natural birth, inspired by Orwell's _1984_!). Here's where to read read about the Patriot Act II: http://www.public-i.org/dtaweb/report.asp?ReportID=502&L1=10&L2=10&L3=0&L4=0&L5=0 Read it and weep, curse, call your politicrats and gripe, demand 'W'easelboy's impeachment, etc... I think we'd be better off if we all conspired to make Her Royal Highess, Queen Elizabeth II, the monarch of the U.S., helped to put the House of Lords back the way it was, and revoked the Declaration of Independence... as we've sure ended up with a screwed up mess over here. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 8 13:44:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: 6502 cycles and subtleties (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <32810.64.169.63.74.1044733276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Pete wrote: > You must be thinking of some different 6502 to the rest of us :-) As > Sellam said, no 6502 opcode takes less than two clock cycles to > execute, and most take more (up to 7): the only 2-cycle instructions are > the ones with implied addressing, like RTS, CLI, TAX, ... Not RTS, that takes a bunch. > There's no pipelining at all in a 6502. No overlap of instructions > whatsoever. There is a little bit of pipelining internally, but it's not really obvious. The last ALU operation of an instruction is generally done during the same clock cycle as the fetch of the next instruction. For instance, when you do an "ADC #35" instruction (add with carry immediate), it's a two-cycle instruction, but it really takes three cycles to complete -- the third cycle is overlapped with the following instruction's fetch. During the first cycle the opcode is fetched, during the second cycle the immediate operand is fetched, and during the third cycle, which is the first cycle of the next instruction, the actual add occurs. I've spent some time working on a reimplementation of the 6502 in a Xilinx FPGA. It's actually fairly difficult to design to match the exact number of clock cycles for each instruction. It's much easier if you allow instructions to take more cycles, which is the approach taken by the OpenCores version. That still lets you run it much faster than the real thing, but is no good for things that depend on the exact cycles counts, such as the Apple II RWTS routines (low-level disk access). Part of that difficulty arises because it is *very* desirable for the data bus to be latched in a single place in the FPGA (preferrably at the I/O buffer), and the data then distributed to the other places that need it. The reason that's desirable is that you don't want the data setup time to vary depending on how the data is being used, which would result in two problems: a large data setup time requirement, and the possibility that setup time violations yield anomalies such as a LDA instruction setting the accumulator to zero, but NOT setting the zero flag (e.g., when the bus data is zero when the accumulator is latched, but non-zero when the flag values are produced). > There aren't two CPU cycles per clock cycle. Perhaps you're thinking of > the fact that the 6502 uses a two-phase clock, and does part of the CPU > cycle during phi-1, and part during phi-2? Perhaps the original poster thought that, but it's just the old standard two-phase NMOS logic. It takes two phases to do just about anything internally, so it's not a matter of doing two things sequentially in one clock cycle. (A small number of things occur in parallel in some cycles, though.) Eric From foo at siconic.com Sat Feb 8 13:58:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > I'm either being imprecise or various readings I have done were > imprecise. The reference to "one cycle" instruction may have been referring > to there being 2 cpu cycles per clock cycle. Also, there's the "pipelining" > some say the 6502 does when the last (or only) byte of an instruction is > acted upon simultaneous to next instruction's 1st byte (opcode) being > fetched Ok, I didn't realize that "one cycle" != 1 CPU cycle. I just know that I have a handy chart of how many clock cycles an instruction takes and the minimum number for any instruction is 2. I guess the key phrase is "clock cycles". Perhaps it's just semantics? > Of course, we're talking Apple ]['s which, if I can trust my memory, > steal every other clock cycle to refresh memory. I don't know myself. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Feb 8 14:30:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: 6502 cycles and subtleties (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: <32810.64.169.63.74.1044733276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Pete wrote: > > You must be thinking of some different 6502 to the rest of us :-) As > > Sellam said, no 6502 opcode takes less than two clock cycles to > > execute, and most take more (up to 7): the only 2-cycle instructions are > > the ones with implied addressing, like RTS, CLI, TAX, ... > > Not RTS, that takes a bunch. 6 according to my chart. > I've spent some time working on a reimplementation of the 6502 in a > Xilinx FPGA. It's actually fairly difficult to design to match the > exact number of clock cycles for each instruction. It's much easier > if you allow instructions to take more cycles, which is the approach > taken by the OpenCores version. That still lets you run it much faster > than the real thing, but is no good for things that depend on the > exact cycles counts, such as the Apple II RWTS routines (low-level > disk access). Yes, that could really mess up some timing-critical code. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Feb 8 14:56:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. References: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> <3243.4.20.168.110.1043717141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3BCDCC.60803@tiac.net> <32994.63.224.195.20.1044134081.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3D393D.5040905@tiac.net> <15580.207.55.102.77.1044343259.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E456F52.1030306@tiac.net> I'll try to dig up an old copy of an HP-users grup magazine that has an in-depth article on the transition to HPIB drives on 13037 controllers. Perhaps it will answer your questions bettern than I can't. Eric Smith wrote: >Bob Shannon wrote: > >>Take a look at the interface schematics for the 13037 (interface) versus >> the 12821A. There is near-zero doubt that >>these need totally different drivers, as MAC disks make a good deal of >>lower-level information >>available to the controller than CS/80 does. >> > >I'm not asking whether an -H drive on a 12821A looks like a non-H on >a 13037. I know they don't. The 12821 has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with >my question, which was whether the -H and non-H drives attached to a >13037 look the same to software. > >Whether RTE supports H drives on a 13037 also has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to >do with my question. But I'd be somewhat surprised if it didn't; the >HPIB option on the 13037 had to have been used by *something*. From jwillis at arielusa.com Sat Feb 8 14:58:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB773@deathstar.arielnet.com> As I understand it, the drives won't spin up without the panel. I currently have full technical documentation for pretty much every DEC hard drive EXCEPT the RA70. One of my bosses was a field service engineer for DEC for 15 years, and the other worked for 22 years as the senior district representative for New Mexico, West Texas, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, and Nevada and was a storage subsystems specialist. They both agree that you need the control panel. They also both agree that I'm nuts for caring. -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks Sent: Sat 2/8/2003 7:21 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel --- John Willis wrote: > Wanted: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel Are these things common/rare? Absolutely required or are they just very nice to have? I have a couple of RA70 drives I got in a box with some KDA50s. Was going to put them in my BA123 with a KA630 processor. Haven't had the chance - still using a pair of RD54s. So... has anyone tried to put RA7X drives in a CPU (not disk) enclosure? If I'm hosed, then I guess I'm in the market for a drive enclosure, too (unless there's some way to hack up an old AT-style tower case...) -ethan [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Sat Feb 8 15:15:01 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ References: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <001e01c2cfb6$d8a22e20$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Pete, I'll type more slowly: Question #1: If an instruction that takes two cpu cycles (as Sellam Ismail cited as a minimum) and there are 2 cpu cycles per clock cycle then how many clock cycles did this one instruction take? Answer: one. OK. OK. I'm being cute. But the 6502, sans Woz's Apple ][ sneakiness for video, can do two memory fetches per clock cycle. I also recall a discussion where RAM was faster than on-chip registers back when 6502's were born. The original ex-Motorola engineers optimized the 6502 for memory access, not register access. If you search for "6502 = RISC" on the Internet and you'll find some folks even more inventive than I with math. {chuckle} Question #2: If someone writes "pipelining" and encloses it within quotes does that indicate to you that the term is being used, well, advisably? Answer: Visit groups.google.com and search for "pipelining" and 6502 (or related processor). You'll get 340 hits from Rockwell's use of "pipelining" as a feature of their version of 6502 chip to some folks referring to "older pipelining" and "new pipelining" to .... . . . I enclosed "pipelining" in quotes because there is friendly disagreement over the 6502 and the use of that term. I guess you were not aware of that. In any event, in a discussion of cycles per instruction (clock cycles, cpu cycles, whatever) the "prefetch" of next instruction's opcode is termed pipelining by some including the manufacturer. Of course, you will now respond back that "prefetch" really means .... Here are some google excerpts: =====excerpt=1==================== I don't like the "one instruction per cycle" definition of RISC - for a start, what is a cycle? I prefer to think of RISC as an "every cycle is sacred" philosophy - you don't waste cycles. I'd try to get _memory cycles_ as often as the hardware permits them - on the 6502, for example, one per cycle (and it almost manages it!). =====excerpt=2====================== A 6502 task context would therefore require moving about 1KB, which would take about 4,500 instructions (at one instruction per cycle.) On a circa-1980's machine, with a 1MHz clock, that would take about 4.5 msec. =====excerpt 3======================= The 6502 _IS_ pipelined, but in ways that are not very dramatic or even obvious unless you look at the CPU's internal operation in detail. Rockwell touted the pipelining in their 6502 user's guide years ago, it is essentially this: When you do a ADC of something, the last cycle of the instruction is when the actual data byte is read in, right? Immediately after that the next opcode is read so the next instruction has started, right? So when did the 6502 add? It added while the next opcode was being read. The accumulator does not actually hold the new value until sometime during the second half (forget exactly where) of the opcode cycle of the next instruction. That's pipelining. It saves you a cycle on every instruction that does an ALU operation. It may not be as spectacular as what's being done on the monster RISCs these days but it is essentially pipelining. ========excerpt 4=========================== The two things that in _my_ mind distinguish the 6502 are the pipelining and the price ($20 for a 6501, $25 for a 6502, quantity 1, when Intel was asking over a hundred for the 8080 and Moto wanted over $50 for the 6800). =========excerpt=5========================== - The 6502 should get the honor of being the first microprocessor to use pipelining, which explains much of its speed. =========excerpt=6=========================== In a more recent example, the 6502 microprocessor had a through-put similar to the 8080 processor running at a clock rate four times faster. This was due to the pipelined architecture of the 6502 versus the non-pipelined 8080. =========excerpt=7========================== At the same clock rate, the 6502's are demonstrably faster. Their speed comes from simplicity. Hard-wired instructions, short execution times, and an early form of pipelining. Anyways, without any mental effort expended, here is very simple 6502 code that will move 2x as many bytes as the z80 code above but in the same # of cycles! ldx #49 ldir lda tab1+50,x sta tab2+50,x lda tab1,x sta tab2 dex bpl ldir 2 bytes moved in 21 cycles or 10.5 cycles average. The overhead is 1 cycle. See, already I have beat Z80 code. In fact the 128 has a special feature to do even better: a relocatable zero page and stack. I don't know exactly how to move the zero page, but it's something like this: lda #>tab1 sta stackpagehigh lda #>tab2 sta zeropagehigh ldx #49 txs ldir pla ;read tab1,sp and decrement sp tsx sta To: Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 14:06 Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > On Feb 8, 11:06, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > The reference to "one cycle" instruction may have been referring > > to there being 2 cpu cycles per clock cycle. Also, there's the > "pipelining" > > some say the 6502 does when the last (or only) byte of an instruction > is > > acted upon simultaneous to next instruction's 1st byte (opcode) being > > fetched > > > > So perhaps "one instruction per clock cycle" may be awfully close > with > > pipelining and with use of zero page. > > You must be thinking of some different 6502 to the rest of us :-) As > Sellam said, no 6502 opcode takes less than two clock cycles to > execute, and most take more (up to 7): the only 2-cycle instructions > are the ones with implied addressing, like RTS, CLI, TAX, ... This is > why a 6502 running typical well-written code, running on a 2MHz clock, > manages at best around 0.7 MIPS. > > There's no pipelining at all in a 6502. No overlap of instructions > whatsoever. > > Zero-page instructions like LDA $12 take three clock cycles. > > There aren't two CPU cycles per clock cycle. Perhaps you're thinking > of the fact that the 6502 uses a two-phase clock, and does part of the > CPU cycle during phi-1, and part during phi-2? > > > Of course, we're talking Apple ]['s which, if I can trust my > memory, > > steal every other clock cycle to refresh memory. > > I believe you're thinking of how it uses part of the clock cycle when > the CPU isn't accessing memory, not alternate clock cycles. > > > > > p.s. I also did quite well with 6502 asm code in cpu speed tests > vs > > > > 80x86 and Z80 programmers. The zero page, for all intents and > purposes, > > > > is 256 registers. > > That was the designers' intention, but you have to remember that it > takes an extra clock cycle to access a zero-page location rather than a > register. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Sat Feb 8 15:22:01 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ References: Message-ID: <003701c2cfb7$c345ede0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> There's apparently an ability for the 6502 cpu to do more than one thing, in some cases, during a clock cycle. Whether that can be expressed as my poor "2 cpu cycles per clock cycle" or whether it's better to refer to "phases of a clock cycle" I'll leave to the poor folk following this hread. - Jim p.s. I almost put "thing" in quotes above but I don't know where the thread would have meandered in that case. {double chuckle} Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 14:52 Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > I'm either being imprecise or various readings I have done were > > imprecise. The reference to "one cycle" instruction may have been referring > > to there being 2 cpu cycles per clock cycle. Also, there's the "pipelining" > > some say the 6502 does when the last (or only) byte of an instruction is > > acted upon simultaneous to next instruction's 1st byte (opcode) being > > fetched > > Ok, I didn't realize that "one cycle" != 1 CPU cycle. I just know that > I have a handy chart of how many clock cycles an instruction takes and the > minimum number for any instruction is 2. I guess the key phrase is > "clock cycles". Perhaps it's just semantics? > > > Of course, we're talking Apple ]['s which, if I can trust my memory, > > steal every other clock cycle to refresh memory. > > I don't know myself. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Feb 8 15:37:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: HP2000 References: Message-ID: <3E4578D8.2040203@tiac.net> You could always boot up HP-IPL/OS if your looking for a fast and easy way to bootstrap your HP's. Thats what it was designed for! Glen S wrote: > That would be very cool and appreciated if someone put the time into > creating such a doc. I have a 2117F and a 2113E that aren't doing > much now that I would like to get doing something more interesting at > some point. > > Last fall I saw some scrap HP 1000 systems which I believe had the > parts to connect them in a two CPU pair. If I knew more about how to > make use of such a configuration I would consider trying to acquire > that hardware. > > >> From: "Jay West" >> >> Perhaps Eric and I (and any other interested parties) should get >> together >> and create a document like "So, you want to run HP TSB?". We could get >> definitive answers to exactly what pieces/parts are required, put in >> some >> comparisons between the different versions, etc. Kind of a road map >> to help >> people get these systems running. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Feb 8 15:39:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: <001e01c2cfb6$d8a22e20$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > =====excerpt=2====================== > > A 6502 task context > would therefore require moving about 1KB, which would take about 4,500 > instructions (at one instruction per cycle.) On a circa-1980's machine, > with a 1MHz clock, that would take about 4.5 msec. This gives me awfully devious ideas... First, were there any 'multitasking machines' designed around the 6502? If you wanted to do multitasking, it seems like you could design a fairly simple MMU that would swap out the zero-page and stack (or all of the memory pages) for different ones, depending on the running task. Leaving only a few registers that need to be saved, it would leave a very small overhead for task swapping. You could even implement kernel and user mode into the MMU, making it swap pages automatically on an interrupt or 'memory write' to signal a syscall (and a swapping of pages, interrupt to the CPU and transition to 'kernel mode'). I think I'm going to need to start playing with designing a 6502-based machine now... Or maybe I should just get back to working on putting machines into racks so I have some floorspace around here to work in. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From fyodonis at bellsouth.net Sat Feb 8 15:44:03 2003 From: fyodonis at bellsouth.net (Frank Yodonis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Please help me ID cards(32) Message-ID: Headley: I don't know if you still have this stuff, but I was the engineer who was involved in the design of the MegaScan A33400(ITF-3102) VME Interface. Please let me know if you still have this and if you still need help answering any questions. Regards, Frank [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From compcyz at fbx.com Sat Feb 8 15:44:18 2003 From: compcyz at fbx.com (compcyz@fbx.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: looking for MFM RLL Drives Message-ID: <003401c2ce89$a5c52f80$ed6f0143@c362372a> Hello, I have many MFM Drives. Not all tested yet but can. What are they worth. I saw an old st225 just sell on ebay for 20 bucks or so + shipping. Make me an offer or what for trade ect. Oh by the way any body have HDFORMAT.EXE for PCTECH X16B 80186 IBM XT clone motherboard with 5380 SCSI controller built in. Leading to SMS Omti 5400 SCSI to MFM adapter board connected to ST225 5.25 MFM Drive That won't read side 4. Could boot floppy and read Directory to find file names in utility subdir. Need program to low level format MFM on SCSI interface. Bios won't detect modern SCSI drives. Tried emailing one of designers (written on board) now works at micron tech. (evolved name of Co.) But no reply. Cy Van D. in Iowa compcyz@fbx.com From khaleeqkg at yahoo.com Sat Feb 8 15:44:30 2003 From: khaleeqkg at yahoo.com (khaleeq Zaman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: VAX 3300 and Spares Message-ID: <20030207110625.40126.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Mc Manis or his Representative We are a small group of student, who were running VAX-3300 Computer System, for our research project. Unfortunately the System has gone out of order. We are in need of VAX-3300 System to retrieve our data archived on TK-70 Tape Cartridge. I have seen your site where from VAX Junks is available. Micro VAX 3300 (Including SCSI Controller, RAM more Than16MB, Hard Disk 1GB nor greater and KFQSA DSSI card worth less than $50. We do not require KFQSA DSSI card. However following Hardware/Software is also required to us: 1. Hard Disk RF-30 and RF-31 2. Controller Card for TK-70 Tape Drive (M7559), 3. Interface Card (M7651) 4. Diagnostic Software on TK-70 Tape Cartridge 5. If you have all or some of these items please inform me about the availability along with their cost. We will arrange the shipping and handling for the items. Your early response would be highly appreciable. Thanking you. Regards Khaleeq khaleeq@yahoo.com From freddy at kotelna.sk Sat Feb 8 15:44:41 2003 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: OT: SC/SC couplers available (was: Re: 10Base-FL) In-Reply-To: <10302070003.ZM16322@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10302070003.ZM16322@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20030207124428.GA31575@kotol.kotelna.sk> pete@dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) wrote : > York Uni has always used 50/125 for everything (from the original FDDI > and FOIRL through ATM and now 100baseFX and 1000baseSX) -- and we're > smiling now that it's come back into vogue. BTW, stick to ST > connectors where you can. SMAs suck big time, and couplers for STs are > expensive. a propos fiber couplers, does anyone have a few they might miss? I'm after SC/SC couplers preferrably with direct SC duplex connector pluggable. I might get a few, but those aren't ready for duplex connectors, just single SC simplex. Cheers, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From kelly at catcorner.org Sat Feb 8 15:44:54 2003 From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B828@308server.308dole.com> Yes, the OS allows entering of drive geometry. Actually only supports MFM up to 70Meg. RLL drives will of course work, just not to RLL capacity. I'm looking for the largest drives I can find. From: Ethan Dicks --- Kelly Leavitt wrote: > Any good sources of MFM or RLL drives. This would be for a Tandy 6000 > running Xenix. > > I'm looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity). Hmm... those aren't so common (in the DEC world, there are two choices - the RD53 (Miniscribe 1325) and the RD54 (Maxtor XT2190). I take it you aren't constrained by a narrow set of expected geometries? (i.e. - you have a running system and/or the install procedure asks you about the drive rather than assuming?) -ethan From Tcampbelluk at aol.com Sat Feb 8 15:45:07 2003 From: Tcampbelluk at aol.com (Tcampbelluk@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Qube Message-ID: <122.1e7da2cc.2b751b4c@aol.com> Just read some interesting articles of nostalgia on the Warner Qube site on Yahoo while researching for an article I'm doing over here (England). I was the first President of Warner Qube system in Pittsburgh which was the first fully blown QUBE system after the Columbus, and what an experience. I then went on to Milwaukee and Brooklyn,Queens. If I can find any of my old info and if you are interested I will dig it out. ( I went on to help develop 2 of the largest U.K. cable/telephone systems for Comcast as Managing Director of Birmingham England Cable and Comcast Teesside (England). In each case we supplied cable and telephony service to more resident than the normal provider (British Telecoms) Hope this may be of help, if only historically. Ted Campbell From grg at umn.edu Sat Feb 8 15:45:24 2003 From: grg at umn.edu (George R. Gonzalez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: TTY ASR-33 Platen? Message-ID: <000f01c2cec1$e3545500$f00da8c0@grgspc> I have been blessed with *two* Teletype ASR-33's. Apart from a minor cleaning, they are going to be just fine. EXCEPT the rubber platens are as hard as Chinese arithmetic! In case you havent experienced this, if the platen gets hard, the printer doesnt print well-- the typehead kinda bounces off the paper and doesnt leave a clean dark mark. I've tried the usual remedies-- acetone cleans them up, but they're still rock hard. I need some suggestions! Should I try ArmorAll (known to soften rubber, given time), "Platen cleaner", "belt dressing", "french dressing", or what? Note that I don't need to clean or make it "grippier", it needs to be softened, a lot. Regards, George From toring at inet.uni2.dk Sat Feb 8 15:45:37 2003 From: toring at inet.uni2.dk (Torben Ring) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Grundy Newbrain fix Message-ID: <3E43E246.2040601@inet.uni2.dk> Hi, I have a Grundy Newbrain, which wouldn't start, or if it started it would only show random chars in the display. I've found out what was wrong with the machine and if anyone needs help with fixing his (or hers) machine, I'll be able to point to the problem. As far as I can tell, this is a common problem with all these machines, and it only gets worse as time goes by. Regards, Torben Ring From aje at technet2000.com.au Sat Feb 8 15:45:50 2003 From: aje at technet2000.com.au (Alan Emmerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Kaypro II available. Message-ID: <200302072344.h17NiYZ07273@xenios.qldnet.com.au> I have two Kaypro II that I have owned from new. Both are upgraded to run at higher clock speeds and one has a cooling fan fitted. One has the PC8 ROM There is a complete set of the bundled distribution software (Select, Perfect Writer etc) with manuals, including that really first class ground breaking program SBasic, and other programs that I wrote in SBasic including multi variable non linear regression analysis. Also Unidos and etc which allows the floppy drives to emulate those of other machines. I used one of these machines to run the first simulation of the CSIRO Sydney to Melbourne high speed railway. What price might one expect for such a a machine?. Alan Emmerson Brisbane QLD Australia From debann17 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 8 15:46:04 2003 From: debann17 at yahoo.com (Deb Ann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Tandy 1400 HD Message-ID: <20030208174055.10325.qmail@web14812.mail.yahoo.com> My uncle is lettingme re-set up his old tandy 1400 hd. The battery and everythign appears to be working fine. However, MS-Dos is not loading from the harddrive or from disk. Any suggestions on what cold be wrong? Thank you debann17 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 8 15:46:18 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable In-Reply-To: <10302080124.ZM17378@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "pete@dunnington.u-net.com" at Feb 8, 3 01:24:44 am Message-ID: > > I assume you'd fail a rewirable plug with the cord grip missing/not > used > > on an electrical safety test. I certainly would. > > Yes. The first thing I do with any multiblock is take it apart to see > how the ends are wired -- the cheap ones are usually in a condition > where I feel compelled to re-do the job. I've stopped buying read-made ones. I buy the 4-way trailing socket (of a known brand), a 13A plug, and a length of cable. And wire my own. It's the only way I can be sure it's done properly. And then I test it. Not on a PAT tester (I don't have one), but by measuing the voltage drop across the cable with a significaunt current (10A-15A) passing and then a megger test between the current-carrying conductors and the ground conductor (normally at 1000V). If there's _any_ sign of problems I investigage. That probably wouldn't count as an official test, but I trust it... -tony From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Feb 8 15:52:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:40 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) References: Message-ID: <3E457AFB.50603@jetnet.ab.ca> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I think I'm going to need to start playing with designing a 6502-based > machine now... Or maybe I should just get back to working on putting > machines into racks so I have some floorspace around here to work in. > Pat Well just grab a C-64 and look here. http://lng.sourceforge.net/ Ben. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Feb 8 15:56:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: TTY ASR-33 Platen? References: <000f01c2cec1$e3545500$f00da8c0@grgspc> Message-ID: <3E457BD2.4010805@jetnet.ab.ca> George R. Gonzalez wrote: > I need some suggestions! Should I try ArmorAll (known to soften rubber, > given time), "Platen cleaner", "belt dressing", "french dressing", or what? I would try 'rubber renue' from M.G. Chemicals. Ben. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Feb 8 17:11:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: 6502 cycles and subtleties (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: "Eric Smith" "6502 cycles and subtleties (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+)" (Feb 8, 11:41) References: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <32810.64.169.63.74.1044733276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <10302082309.ZM17996@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 8, 11:41, Eric Smith wrote: > Pete wrote: > > You must be thinking of some different 6502 to the rest of us :-) As > > Sellam said, no 6502 opcode takes less than two clock cycles to > > execute, and most take more (up to 7): the only 2-cycle instructions are > > the ones with implied addressing, like RTS, CLI, TAX, ... > > Not RTS, that takes a bunch. Oops, wrong column! Yes, it takes 6. > There is a little bit of pipelining internally, but it's not really > obvious. The last ALU operation of an instruction is generally done > during the same clock cycle as the fetch of the next instruction. > For instance, when you do an "ADC #35" instruction (add with carry > immediate), it's a two-cycle instruction, but it really takes three > cycles to complete -- the third cycle is overlapped with the following > instruction's fetch. During the first cycle the opcode is fetched, > during the second cycle the immediate operand is fetched, and during the > third cycle, which is the first cycle of the next instruction, the actual > add occurs. True. Most instructions don't work like that, though. > > There aren't two CPU cycles per clock cycle. Perhaps you're thinking of > > the fact that the 6502 uses a two-phase clock, and does part of the CPU > > cycle during phi-1, and part during phi-2? > > Perhaps the original poster thought that, but it's just the old standard > two-phase NMOS logic. It takes two phases to do just about anything > internally, so it's not a matter of doing two things sequentially in > one clock cycle. (A small number of things occur in parallel in some > cycles, though.) Yes, *I* know that, but I don't think Jim did :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 8 17:15:01 2003 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB773@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <003b01c2cfc7$8ef41e80$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> google and a little rtfm always works;) 5 minutes! looks like your expert bosses were wrong. Summary RA7x drives don't need control panel, just proper jumpers. SDI cables need to be wired to the [U/K]DA50 in odd numbers. eg 1 See pg 3-11 of kda 50 user manual: drives will go offline if unit numbers are duplicated. ie don't set switches the same on all drives if missing panel. -h from http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/1999/10/22/0011.html see: As far as I can see this is hardware. The RA7x drives can either be told their unit number by the OPC (the panel on the front) or they can have it set by switches somewhere. from http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/pups/1999-September/000118.html see: I wonder, does anyone here know anything about the KDA50? I've solved my RA72 problem (as it turns out, if there is no control panel connected, the drive assumes normal operation, i.e., spin up, go on-line, enable port A, no write protect, and the unit number between 0 and 7 is set by the switches on the right side of the drive), but now I have a different problem: I can't get UNIX .... Michael Sokolov from see: Page 2-25 of the UDA50 guide lists the LED codes. Basically a cycling-flashing pattern on both boards means OK. Otherwise you have a UDA50 problem. Assuming that's OK, remember that you need an odd number of SDI cables between controller and disk. Tyically 3 (controller to bulkhead, bulkhead to other cab bulkhead and finally other cab bulkhead to disk. Using just one cable should work (I did that in a MicroVAX III system inside a BA214 cab to go from a KDA50 to an RA7x drive or two. If all that is OK (and assuming the cables are OK) the next thing to look at is the RA7x itself. In a MicroVAX cab or in a disk cab, the OCP (operator control panel) is used to set the disk unit number and bring it online. In your config I assume that you need to set the unit number using switches and possibly do something else to persuade it to come online. I'll go look up the details tomorrow, in the meantime you can start by checking the above. Good luck, Antonio arcarlini@iee.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Willis" To: Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 3:55 PM Subject: RE: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel > As I understand it, the drives won't spin up without the panel. I > currently have full > technical documentation for pretty much every DEC hard drive EXCEPT the > RA70. > One of my bosses was a field service engineer for DEC for 15 years, and > the other worked From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Sat Feb 8 17:40:01 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) References: Message-ID: <000301c2cfcb$249a5500$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Pat, I wrote some 6502 assembler to handle Hayes Micromodem (300 baud speed demon) on an interrupt, not polling, basis. Also wrote a minimalist "messaging" functionality to send one-liner messages between Apple ]['s on a Corvus network. Both the Hayes micromodem and the Corvus card could be jumpered or soddered to generate interrupts. Then you set the appropriate vector to point to your interrupt handler 6502 routine and enable interrupts. That means you could have multi-tasking on 6502's both cooperative and preemptive. Hmmmm. So you boot OS9 and run a ported Hercules IBM mainframe emulator (in C) and really destroy some folks' hold on reality. {giggle} - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 16:41 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) > On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > =====excerpt=2====================== > > > > A 6502 task context > > would therefore require moving about 1KB, which would take about 4,500 > > instructions (at one instruction per cycle.) On a circa-1980's machine, > > with a 1MHz clock, that would take about 4.5 msec. > > This gives me awfully devious ideas... First, were there any 'multitasking > machines' designed around the 6502? If you wanted to do multitasking, it > seems like you could design a fairly simple MMU that would swap out the > zero-page and stack (or all of the memory pages) for different ones, > depending on the running task. Leaving only a few registers that need to > be saved, it would leave a very small overhead for task swapping. You > could even implement kernel and user mode into the MMU, making it swap > pages automatically on an interrupt or 'memory write' to signal a syscall > (and a swapping of pages, interrupt to the CPU and transition to 'kernel > mode'). > > I think I'm going to need to start playing with designing a 6502-based > machine now... Or maybe I should just get back to working on putting > machines into racks so I have some floorspace around here to work in. > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Sat Feb 8 17:40:25 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) References: Message-ID: <000201c2cfcb$2467fa60$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Pat, Now I'll really get into trouble by trusting my infamously poor memory. I played with a plug-in 6809 processor for Apple ]['s. I used it mostly for a faster Apple Pascal P-System but there also was an OS9 implementation that did the context switching to which you referred. Where my memory comes in is that I recall someone implementing OS9 on Apple ][e (?) with original 6502 only. That would imply they implemented the onerous but livable context switching overhead mentioned. Trying to recall from my BIX (Bytemag Information eXchange teleconferencing system) days who was Mr. OS9. Maybe my fellow BIX moderator Steve Ciarca (sp?) of Ciarca's Cellar fame. Have fun and let us know how you do. - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 16:41 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) > On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > =====excerpt=2====================== > > > > A 6502 task context > > would therefore require moving about 1KB, which would take about 4,500 > > instructions (at one instruction per cycle.) On a circa-1980's machine, > > with a 1MHz clock, that would take about 4.5 msec. > > This gives me awfully devious ideas... First, were there any 'multitasking > machines' designed around the 6502? If you wanted to do multitasking, it > seems like you could design a fairly simple MMU that would swap out the > zero-page and stack (or all of the memory pages) for different ones, > depending on the running task. Leaving only a few registers that need to > be saved, it would leave a very small overhead for task swapping. You > could even implement kernel and user mode into the MMU, making it swap > pages automatically on an interrupt or 'memory write' to signal a syscall > (and a swapping of pages, interrupt to the CPU and transition to 'kernel > mode'). > > I think I'm going to need to start playing with designing a 6502-based > machine now... Or maybe I should just get back to working on putting > machines into racks so I have some floorspace around here to work in. > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Feb 8 17:53:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. References: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> <3243.4.20.168.110.1043717141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3BCDCC.60803@tiac.net> <32994.63.224.195.20.1044134081.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3D393D.5040905@tiac.net> <15580.207.55.102.77.1044343259.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E456F52.1030306@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3E4598C7.4040002@tiac.net> > Eric Smith wrote: > >> >> >> Whether RTE supports H drives on a 13037 also has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to >> do with my question. But I'd be somewhat surprised if it didn't; the >> HPIB option on the 13037 had to have been used by *something*. > > Eric, If you need a different device driver (under RTE) to use a 7920H than you do to use a 7920M, isn't it safe to assume that there IS a low-level difference here (assuming both drives are connected to a 13037 controller)? How is this not related to your question? From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Feb 8 18:27:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: "Jim Keohane" "Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+" (Feb 8, 16:12) References: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <001e01c2cfb6$d8a22e20$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Message-ID: <10302082340.ZM18100@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 8, 16:12, Jim Keohane wrote: > I'll type more slowly: > > Question #1: > > If an instruction that takes two cpu cycles (as Sellam Ismail cited as a > minimum) and there are 2 cpu cycles per clock cycle then how many clock > cycles did this one instruction take? > > Answer: one. NO. There NOT two CPU cycles per clock cycle. Sellam cited two CLOCK cycles minimum per instruction. He is correct. I've been been building 6502-based devices and programming 6502 code on and off since 1981, and I suspect Sellam has been arund 6502s nearly as long; we're both accustomed to calculating how many cycles routines take. The 6502 uses several clock cycles per CPU cycle -- if by cycle you mean a fetch-execute cycle. That's exactly the opposite of what you're claiming. > OK. OK. I'm being cute. But the 6502, sans Woz's Apple ][ > sneakiness for video, can do two memory fetches per clock cycle. No, it can't. Go read the data sheet. The *system* can, providing your memory is fast enough that you can run it twice as fast as the CPU -- which the Apple and some other machines did -- and providing you have *something else* (eg, the video) doing its memory access only during the clock phase that the 6502 doesn't use for memory access. It is the clock edges that trigger the 6502 to perform the memory access. > Question #2: > > If someone writes "pipelining" and encloses it within quotes does that > indicate to you that the term is being used, well, advisably? > > Answer: Visit groups.google.com and search for "pipelining" and 6502 (or > related processor). [...] > =====excerpt 3======================= > > The 6502 _IS_ pipelined, but in ways that are not very dramatic or even > obvious > unless you look at the CPU's internal operation in detail. Rockwell touted > the > pipelining in their 6502 user's guide years ago, it is essentially this: > > When you do a ADC of something, the last cycle of the instruction is when > the > actual data byte is read in, right? Immediately after that the next opcode > is > read so the next instruction has started, right? So when did the 6502 add? > > It added while the next opcode was being read. The accumulator does not > actually hold the new value until sometime during the second half (forget > exactly where) of the opcode cycle of the next instruction. > > That's pipelining. It saves you a cycle on every instruction that does an > ALU > operation. It may not be as spectacular as what's being done on the monster > RISCs these days but it is essentially pipelining. Yes, but only on a small number of the instructions. I'm sure other microprocessors of the day did that, Rockwell marketing not withstanding. > I'd say you got me on the "one cycle per instruction" but you jumped the > gun on the pipelining issue. OK? Well, maybe, but the 6502 is not basically a pipelined processor, in the sense that only a few instructions do anything close to pipelining, and not even all the intructions that use the ALU do so. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Feb 8 18:28:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: OT: SC/SC couplers available (was: Re: 10Base-FL) In-Reply-To: Adrien Farkas "OT: SC/SC couplers available (was: Re: 10Base-FL)" (Feb 7, 13:44) References: <10302070003.ZM16322@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030207124428.GA31575@kotol.kotelna.sk> Message-ID: <10302082336.ZM18097@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 7, 13:44, Adrien Farkas wrote: > pete@dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) wrote : > > >SMAs suck big time, and couplers for STs are expensive. ^^ Oops, did I really write that? I meant that couplers for SCs are expensive; ST couplers are cheap. > a propos fiber couplers, does anyone have a few they might miss? I'm > after SC/SC couplers preferrably with direct SC duplex connector > pluggable. I might get a few, but those aren't ready for duplex > connectors, just single SC simplex. Duplex ones are just two simplex ones side by side. Use tape or glue. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Feb 8 18:32:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: CCS 2422 Floppy Disk Controller Message-ID: <000101c2cfd2$4b0473e0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I recently acquired a California Computer Systems model 2422 Floppy Disk Controller Rev B. (S-100) in what appears to be good condition but missing a 2716 EPROM presumably containing the onboard BIOS. Does anyone have this card and the capability of providing me with a copy of the PROM or at least a dump of it? I'd also love to get my hands on the docs, if available. Thank you, Erik **Resent from the proper account** From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Feb 8 18:36:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Eureka! Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030208194020.3c0f3a20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Well I didn't find the Holy Grail but this is close! I went to a hamfest today and in a box of junk I found the operating program for the HP 9877 Mass Memory unit! That's the box that has up to four tape drives installed and was used to mass duplicate HP 9825 tapes at the HP factory. The 9877 is a rare bird and was only offered to the public for one year (1979 IIRC) but I've got two of the 9877s, Tony D has one and NASA KSC has one but NO ONE has been able to locate the operating program for it till now. The tape APPEARS to be in good condition but you know how HP tapes are :-( The full name of the tape is "Duplicator 9825A/9877" and it's part number is 09877-10002. Other INTERESTING finds (in the same box no less!) were a new DC-300A tape (as used on the IBM 5100 and Tektronix 4051), a Plot 50 tape and Plot 50 Backup tape and an Alignment tape. All three are for the Tektronix 4051 computer. Wahoo! A good ClassiComp day! Joe From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 8 18:42:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. In-Reply-To: <3E456F52.1030306@tiac.net> References: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> <3243.4.20.168.110.1043717141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3BCDCC.60803@tiac.net> <32994.63.224.195.20.1044134081.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3D393D.5040905@tiac.net> <15580.207.55.102.77.1044343259.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E456F52.1030306@tiac.net> Message-ID: <32844.64.169.63.74.1044751215.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Bob Shannon wrote: > I'll try to dig up an old copy of an HP-users grup magazine that has an > in-depth article on the transition to > HPIB drives on 13037 controllers. Perhaps it will answer your questions > bettern than I can't. That would be quite cool, thanks! Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 8 18:47:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: References: <001e01c2cfb6$d8a22e20$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Message-ID: <32849.64.169.63.74.1044751503.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jim Keohane wrote: >> A 6502 task context >> would therefore require moving about 1KB, which would take about 4,500 >> instructions (at one instruction per cycle.) On a circa-1980's >> machine, with a 1MHz clock, that would take about 4.5 msec. Pat Finnegan wrote: > This gives me awfully devious ideas... First, were there any > 'multitasking machines' designed around the 6502? If you wanted to do > multitasking, it seems like you could design a fairly simple MMU that > would swap out the zero-page and stack (or all of the memory pages) for > different ones, depending on the running task. Leaving only a few > registers that need to be saved, it would leave a very small overhead > for task swapping. The Apple /// hardware supports this. It allows you to select an alternate pair of pages to replace page zero and page one. AFAIK, it was never used for user-level multitasking, but was used to provide separate user and OS contexts. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 8 19:02:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: 6502 cycles and subtleties (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: <10302082309.ZM17996@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <32810.64.169.63.74.1044733276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <10302082309.ZM17996@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <32868.64.169.63.74.1044752386.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Pete wrote about my example of the 6502 ADC immediate instruction being pipelined: > True. Most instructions don't work like that, though. Well, I haven't counted them, but pretty much all instructions that use the ALU do that. This includes ADC, SBC, ORA, AND, EOR, BIT, and (when the accumulator is the destination) LSL, ASR, ROR, and ROL. And the PLP and PLA instructions, which increment the stack pointer using the ALU during the next fetch. Probably others that don't come to mind at the moment, as well. The original claim back in 1975 that the 6502 (and fmaily) was pipelined was probably intended as a comparison to the other microprocessors of the time, especially the somewhat similar 6800, which took more clock cycles to do most operations, because it did not have even the small amount of pipelining of the 6502. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 8 19:04:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: <000201c2cfcb$2467fa60$0200000a@ibm0187702152> References: <000201c2cfcb$2467fa60$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Message-ID: <32870.64.169.63.74.1044752485.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jim Keohane wrote: > Now I'll really get into trouble by trusting my infamously poor > memory. > I played with a plug-in 6809 processor for Apple ]['s. I used it mostly > for a faster Apple Pascal P-System but there also was an OS9 > implementation that did the context switching to which you referred. I *really* wanted one of those back then, but never got one. I'm still searching. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 8 19:08:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. In-Reply-To: <3E4598C7.4040002@tiac.net> References: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> <3243.4.20.168.110.1043717141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3BCDCC.60803@tiac.net> <32994.63.224.195.20.1044134081.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3D393D.5040905@tiac.net> <15580.207.55.102.77.1044343259.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E456F52.1030306@tiac.net> <3E4598C7.4040002@tiac.net> Message-ID: <32872.64.169.63.74.1044752749.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Bob Shannon wrote: > If you need a different device driver (under RTE) to use a 7920H than > you do to use a 7920M, isn't it safe > to assume that there IS a low-level difference here (assuming both > drives are connected to a 13037 controller)? > > How is this not related to your question? There are three configurations to consider: A) CPU --- 13037 --- 7920M B) CPU --- 13037 --- 7920H C) CPU --- native HPIB interface --- 7920H (I don't remember the P/N of the native interface) I knew that the configuration C needed a different driver than either A or B. I was NOT aware that A and B required different drivers; it was my impression that there was basically a "13037 driver". However, I'm definitely not an RTE expert. Eric From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 8 19:37:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: CCS 2422 Floppy Disk Controller In-Reply-To: <000101c2cfd2$4b0473e0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I recently acquired a California Computer Systems model 2422 Floppy Disk > Controller Rev B. (S-100) in what appears to be good condition but > missing a 2716 EPROM presumably containing the onboard BIOS. > > Does anyone have this card and the capability of providing me with a > copy of the PROM or at least a dump of it? I'd also love to get my > hands on the docs, if available. > > Thank you, > > Erik > > **Resent from the proper account** I have sent the image to Erik. - don From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sat Feb 8 19:46:00 2003 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030207011535.01d03eb8@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030206204449.00ab5008@66.67.226.217> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030208201620.00ae1cf0@66.67.226.217> Roger: first off: serial/usb isn't really built in. you have to plop it into a cradle to get the usb/serial connection or get a usb/serial adaptor to plug into the palm, it is NOT built in on most models that I know of. Second, the idea of the mini portable PC is to take something slightly larger than a palm and give it some real power so you can connect it to anything you feel like it in the field. Say, I go over to Sridhar's house and decide I want to grab the docs on an old DECServer, most palms don't have the storage space or interface unless you go find a program written for the machine you are on and have an IR port or happen to have a Palm cradle for that model (nowadays one cradle does NOT fit all). A mini-PC portable, like the idea I had, would have standard built-in interfaces that would allow for this, plus the needed storage space. Like simple FTP'ing the data over a standard tcp/ip protocol on the built-in Ethernet or such, this would make portable data sharing easier. You know, something to do more, have actual standards and work better (much like some of the ClassicComps we all know and love). This is why I was considering RISC or such, since it is technically Classic technology and will allow for already existing programs, O/S's, hardware, etc. to be used. I cannot make claims as to the Visors of today or past since I've only worked with two older models and both were much like Palms where you had to have a cradle or an add-on. I agree with the idea of OS9 for your 68k, it will be more complex and troublesome than it is worth and an alternative would be more effective in your situation. At least someone else still reads the goodie mags. The Palm3c battery can be changed out on your own if you can get the housing opened on it. There are actually a few companies that make the cells for them. Might be worth a look-up. My father had one of the original Palm Pilots. There was no built-in serial on it. It had the Serial cradle which obviously required a PC or Mac to plug into and was kinda buggy until later releases 6 months later. As for just an adaptor cable to go directly to serial or usb; yes, there are some, but you then need software to make them work and they don't always work either (IE a few demos I saw at TechX at the Jacob Javitz Convention Center in NYC in 2000. A company making Palm adaptor cables had the PalmVx fail to work right with a serial cable hooked into an HP desktop. Obviously, they left after the 2nd day). Though, I do agree, Palm and Visor should release the schematics and possibly the Palm O/S source to the older units such as the Pilot and the IIIc's. It would help the open source community and us hobby guys would then have something to tinker with when our Vaxen or what-have-you are down due to oversized power bills or missing/broken parts. If need be, maybe we can put our heads together and work jointly on getting something going on classic Palms (they passed the big 10 now, haven't they?). I'd like to tinker with these buggers since they are technically just modified old Macs/PCs crammed down into a tiny size and are nifty if you play with them enough. If interested, contact me off-list. -John Boffemmyer IV ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- At 01:26 AM 2/7/2003, you wrote: >At 21:04 02/06/2003 -0500, you wrote: >>I was sitting at home reading my latest copy of Mouser (component catalog) > >As I have done most recently... ;-) > >> Palms and Visors... > >I've had a somewhat different _psycho-wacky_ idea -- what would it take to >get OS-9/68K ported to the Palm? I have a Palm 3c with a partially dead >battery, twiddling it's thumbs, which would make a decent "play-palm"... > >uClinux looks too bulky & slow, compared to OS-9... > >Anyone here work for Radisys/MicroWare... Any chance they'd sell hobbyist >source licenses??? :-) > >One bad thing with this is I did some googling earlier today (for sh*ts & >grins) and there's not a ton of info about the internals of the Palms >(things like memory maps, display access parameters, etc...) out there... > >>...but the palm doesn't have built in USB or Ethernet or Serial, > >Ahem, *all* the older Palms (up to & including the 3C) had built-in >Serial, and the newer ones have built-in USB... mind you, you need a >Handspring with it's built-in CF slot to get ethernet... > >> you are stuck with a bulky add-on or a cradle... > >Or just a cable... been on the open market for years... :-) > >>...possibly SCSI on a standard AT board in as small a size as possible >>while enabling use of as many slots in the back of an AT case for the >>AGPx, PCI and ISA. I was thinking of using something like an AMD-based >>Ethernet chip with the prototype board's VIA motherboard chipset. Anyone >>have comments? > >Why? Just to have a very small computer? If so, there's a new "standard" >out that about 1/2 the size of a Micro-ATX board... the whole computer's >about 9-10" high... Available in Athlon & Pentium4 flavors... > >... If you were looking at the slower machines to save money, the custom >mobo's will cure that... > >Just more assorted ramblings... ;-) > >Roger "Merch" Merchberger From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Feb 8 20:26:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Micom 2000 ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030208213002.31c74a0a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Lawrence, I found an old message from you in the CC archives while I was searching for info on the Micom 2000. In the message you said that you have a Micom 2000. Can you tell me what kind of disks it uses? I know that they're hard sectored 8" SSDD floppies but I don't know how many sectors they use. I picked up a case of sealed boxs of 8" floppy disks today at a hamfest and the case and boxs say that they're for the Micom 2000. Joe From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 8 20:30:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030208201620.00ae1cf0@66.67.226.217> Message-ID: <20030209022807.29824.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > Roger: first off: serial/usb isn't really built in. you have to plop it > into a cradle to get the usb/serial connection or get a usb/serial > adaptor to plug into the palm, it is NOT built in on most models that I > know of. Huh? I have been playing with Palms since the 1MB-no-IR days... the connector at the bottom that plugs into the cradle *is* a serial port. The cradle is completely passive. I used to use a Palm III with a "travel cable" (no cradle, just a wire with a Palm connector on one end and a DE9 on the other) and one of several VT100 emulator apps to reconfigure Cisco routers. Flipped out the boss the first time I did it - he had only ever seen people use a laptop (all of 28 years old... no Classic experience). My only complaint with Palms are that most of them do not have rechargable batteries in them. I bought an aftermarket one for my III and have used it with the Rand McNalley GPS and "Fly!" software for auxilliary navigation while flying single-engine planes, but it's only good for a couple of power-on hours. I have had *no* problem with the PalmPro, Palm III or Palm Vx serial. Not sure why you've seen so many problems, but that's not my experience or the experience of anyone I know. OTOH, I agree that the Palm makes a nice hacking platform - 160x160 screen (nicer than most affordable external LCD displays, and I have several!), built-in serial, 68K instruction set, megs of RAM... I can write stuff at the app level for it, but I have no idea how you'd go about writing stuff for it at the bare-metal level. I'd hate to hose the PalmOS flash - dunno if there's a way to get it back without building your own external re-Flasher (in the case of the IIIs and older that *have* removable SIMMs). I think most folks have resigned themselves to working with the OS out of a) comfort, and b) fear of rendering the Palm inert. If there were a way to put your own OS-level routines in there (and you'd have to have a lot of them to make the platform usable) that was reversable, then people might do some more deep-level hacking. -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Feb 8 20:37:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PACEMIPPS? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030208214051.40a73d22@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Can anyone tell me exactly what a PACEMIPS PIMM - 33SG144C is? It's made by Performance Semiconductor but it's not listed on their (POOR!) website. I THINK it might be an R33000 embedded processor but I'm not sure. Joe From cb at mythtech.net Sat Feb 8 20:44:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... Message-ID: >I'd hate to >hose the PalmOS flash - dunno if there's a way to get it back without >building your own external re-Flasher (in the case of the IIIs and older >that *have* removable SIMMs). I think they may have an ability to recover built in. I know when I upgraded the OS on my wife's IIIx, I had a problem with the upgrade, and the flash didn't complete. The Palm wouldn't boot and I thought I was hosed. But a check in the directions offered a recover method. There is a sequence of button presses you can do that drops the Palm into "debugger" mode, and from there, the upgrade utility could restart the flash process and write the OS again. Of course, you would need a copy of the Flash ROM/OS and a utility to write it. I know you can dump your current ROM to file with the tools in the Palm Emulator available from Palm... but the only tool I know to write it back to the Palm is their OS upgrade tool, which means you would have to shell out for the upgrade (or find someone else that already did and use the software that they have). -chris From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Sat Feb 8 21:57:01 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ References: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <001e01c2cfb6$d8a22e20$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <10302082340.ZM18100@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <003401c2cfef$0de77080$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 18:40 Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > On Feb 8, 16:12, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > I'd say you got me on the "one cycle per instruction" but you jumped the > > gun on the pipelining issue. OK? > Pete responded: > Well, maybe, but the 6502 is not basically a pipelined processor, in > the sense that only a few instructions do anything close to pipelining, > and not even all the intructions that use the ALU do so. > Gee, Pete, maybe that's why I used quotes around "pipelined" just so no one could construe my statement as claiming the "6502 is basically a pipelined processor." Aside from arguing who is right, which I am not doing, you have to agree with me that there's plenty of room for disagreement as the search I suggested showed. Cheers, - Jim From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Sat Feb 8 21:57:58 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) References: <001e01c2cfb6$d8a22e20$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <32849.64.169.63.74.1044751503.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <003501c2cfef$0e216c40$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Yup, the 6502B I think it was. A nice system. - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 19:45 Subject: Re: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) > Jim Keohane wrote: > >> A 6502 task context > >> would therefore require moving about 1KB, which would take about 4,500 > >> instructions (at one instruction per cycle.) On a circa-1980's > >> machine, with a 1MHz clock, that would take about 4.5 msec. > > Pat Finnegan wrote: > > This gives me awfully devious ideas... First, were there any > > 'multitasking machines' designed around the 6502? If you wanted to do > > multitasking, it seems like you could design a fairly simple MMU that > > would swap out the zero-page and stack (or all of the memory pages) for > > different ones, depending on the running task. Leaving only a few > > registers that need to be saved, it would leave a very small overhead > > for task swapping. > > The Apple /// hardware supports this. It allows you to select an alternate > pair of pages to replace page zero and page one. AFAIK, it was never used > for user-level multitasking, but was used to provide separate user and > OS contexts. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Feb 8 22:37:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: 6502 cycles and subtleties (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) References: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <32810.64.169.63.74.1044733276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <10302082309.ZM17996@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <32868.64.169.63.74.1044752386.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E45D9D1.7020508@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Smith wrote: > The original claim back in 1975 that the 6502 (and fmaily) was pipelined > was probably intended as a comparison to the other microprocessors of > the time, especially the somewhat similar 6800, which took more clock > cycles to do most operations, because it did not have even the small amount > of pipelining of the 6502. > A hidden gotya is the index registers are 8 bits. No problem for small dedicated control but somthing that limited high level languages to Basic and Pascal p-code. Ben. From dittman at dittman.net Sat Feb 8 22:46:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... In-Reply-To: <20030209022807.29824.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 08, 2003 06:28:07 PM Message-ID: <200302090442.h194gmo0026360@narnia.int.dittman.net> > OTOH, I agree that the Palm makes a nice hacking platform - 160x160 > screen (nicer than most affordable external LCD displays, and I have > several!), built-in serial, 68K instruction set, megs of RAM... I > can write stuff at the app level for it, but I have no idea how you'd > go about writing stuff for it at the bare-metal level. I'd hate to > hose the PalmOS flash - dunno if there's a way to get it back without > building your own external re-Flasher (in the case of the IIIs and older > that *have* removable SIMMs). I've seen a security system in a couple of the local Home Depots or Lowe's (can't remember which) that used a Palm. You can only see the LCD, but that's enough to tell. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From n8uhn at yahoo.com Sat Feb 8 22:54:00 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: ast cc-232 serial card Message-ID: <20030209045140.6947.qmail@web40707.mail.yahoo.com> I am looking for a copy of the manual of jumber/switch settings and pinout's of the ast cc 232 async/sync serial card. looking at the jumper page (after the link was posted) i found nothing. jpg scans to my email would be great - just attach them. n8uhn at yahoo dot com (replace the "'dot" with "." and "at"' with "@" Thanks, Bill From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 8 23:12:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030208201620.00ae1cf0@66.67.226.217> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > Roger: first off: serial/usb isn't really built in. you have to plop it > into a cradle to get the usb/serial connection or get a usb/serial adaptor > to plug into the palm, it is NOT built in on most models that I know of. NO for serial, you just need a connector. You can use their "modem cable". The cradle consists of a holder, a cable, and a pushbutton (that you don't need). From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 9 00:37:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse Message-ID: <003601c2d004$e6f41e40$0400fea9@game> I was wondering if there ever was a PC PS2 type mouse addon card for old 386 or previous AT type computers? I know there were bus mice, but thats not the same. The reason I am asking is because I have a PS2 KVM switch and want to get my 386/DX40 computer connected to it (it doesnt have a ps2 header). From allain at panix.com Sun Feb 9 01:03:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030206204449.00ab5008@66.67.226.217> <5.1.1.6.2.20030208201620.00ae1cf0@66.67.226.217> Message-ID: <004a01c2cffb$877aad20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> I don't follow all threads on this list (if I did, one thread might drift like so "What's the melting point of an igloo, if you made one out of silicon tiles?", but thought I'd point out that the Palm tends to do anything serial only one at a time. That is, IR port -or- RS232 -or- USB, but never two at once, limiting it somewhat. For hobbyist, the Zaurus/linux box might also something to check out, although it looks dead in the market right now. John A. PalmOS v1.0: Mar _1996_ From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 9 01:04:22 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: 6502 cycles and subtleties (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: <3E45D9D1.7020508@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <32810.64.169.63.74.1044733276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <10302082309.ZM17996@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <32868.64.169.63.74.1044752386.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E45D9D1.7020508@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <33121.64.169.63.74.1044773552.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> ben franchuk wrote: > A hidden gotya is the index registers are 8 bits. No problem > for small dedicated control but somthing that limited high > level languages to Basic and Pascal p-code. I'd have to disagree. There were plenty of other HLLs available for the 6502. The 8-bit index register isn't an issue using the indirect indexed addressing mode, e.g., "LDA (FOO),Y", in which any pair of consecutive zero page locations can act as a 16-bit base, with the index register as an offset. The biggest limitation for HLL support was the 256-byte stack limit; if you needed more stack you had to roll your own. It was certainly not as nice as a 6809, but then it predated the 6809 by several years. From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sun Feb 9 07:16:00 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarlet Otter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse In-Reply-To: <003601c2d004$e6f41e40$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <3E4595C8.10045.10F3CDF4@localhost> From: "TeoZ" To: Subject: PS2 Mouse Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 00:49:33 -0500 > I was wondering if there ever was a PC PS2 type mouse addon card for > old 386 or previous AT type computers? > > I know there were bus mice, but thats not the same. > > The reason I am asking is because I have a PS2 KVM switch and want to > get my 386/DX40 computer connected to it (it doesnt have a ps2 > header). I'm pretty sure I've seen ISA PS2 cards. I'll have to check next time I go on a Geekware Scavenger Hunt. :) Seems reasonable, since there are 8086, 286, and 386 systems that have PS2 ports. -- Otter From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sun Feb 9 07:40:01 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: <003501c2cfef$0e216c40$0200000a@ibm0187702152> References: <001e01c2cfb6$d8a22e20$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <32849.64.169.63.74.1044751503.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030208103832.0255d7d0@pop.freeserve.net> I remember trying to write a multi-user OS on a BBC Micro, back in the early 80's. It was complicated by the machine being almost entirely interrupt driven already, so there was a lot going on to take account of. It was never finished; I did end up with a workable MUG though - using multiple client computers across an econet network. There was various bits of commercial software however that took advantage of the timing interrupt (at 50Hz, to match the screen refresh frequency) to do various cool things 'simultaneously' to the normal user. I don't know if this counts. At 22:53 08/02/2003 -0500, Jim Keohane wrote: >Yup, the 6502B I think it was. A nice system. - Jim > >Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. > > "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Eric Smith" >To: >Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 19:45 >Subject: Re: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) > > > > Jim Keohane wrote: > > >> A 6502 task context > > >> would therefore require moving about 1KB, which would take about 4,500 > > >> instructions (at one instruction per cycle.) On a circa-1980's > > >> machine, with a 1MHz clock, that would take about 4.5 msec. > > > > Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > This gives me awfully devious ideas... First, were there any > > > 'multitasking machines' designed around the 6502? If you wanted to do > > > multitasking, it seems like you could design a fairly simple MMU that > > > would swap out the zero-page and stack (or all of the memory pages) for > > > different ones, depending on the running task. Leaving only a few > > > registers that need to be saved, it would leave a very small overhead > > > for task swapping. > > > > The Apple /// hardware supports this. It allows you to select an >alternate > > pair of pages to replace page zero and page one. AFAIK, it was never used > > for user-level multitasking, but was used to provide separate user and > > OS contexts. From paulm064 at icqmail.com Sun Feb 9 08:00:00 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: attache' where are you? Message-ID: <000d01c2d016$f01d38a0$9854ddcb@earth2> I have been searching for info of an old laptop computer i have . Following details are all i have found: Attache' Forefront 286 model : LV-286D power supply : 17Volt ? 2.7Amp ? Battery : 12Volt 2200mAH NiCAD 3 pin connector - 9.8"x2.1"x1.1" Has detachable keyboard. Does any know if manufacturer was taken over by another? Need details of power supply and battery connector pollarity and or gifs of same . Don't know where else to look. Thanks Paul From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Sun Feb 9 08:08:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse In-Reply-To: <3E4595C8.10045.10F3CDF4@localhost> References: <3E4595C8.10045.10F3CDF4@localhost> Message-ID: <1044799727.1112.7.camel@azure.subsolar> On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 01:42, Scarlet Otter wrote: > > The reason I am asking is because I have a PS2 KVM switch and want to > > get my 386/DX40 computer connected to it (it doesnt have a ps2 > > header). > > I'm pretty sure I've seen ISA PS2 cards. I'll have to check next > time I go on a Geekware Scavenger Hunt. :) > > Seems reasonable, since there are 8086, 286, and 386 systems that > have PS2 ports. I have never seen them, the PS-2 ports were controlled by the keyboard controller chip, if I remember correctly, so I would think it would be hard to make a add-in card since it would have to take over some of the functions of the keyboard controller. I have seen plans on the net that convert PS/2 to serial using a PIC chip ... you could try google for one of them. I could use a USB => PS/2 mouse adapter, so far I have not found any such animal. I've found plenty that go the other way. Regards, Paul From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Feb 9 08:21:01 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse In-Reply-To: <1044799727.1112.7.camel@azure.subsolar> Message-ID: <6C7C831D-3C39-11D7-B78D-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 09:08 AM, Paul Berger wrote: > > I could use a USB => PS/2 mouse adapter, so far I have not found any > such animal. I've found plenty that go the other way. I have one of those, it came with my Microsoft USB Optical Intellimouse. I don't know if it will work with other mice or not though, but it works fine with the mouse it came with, and I use it on my SGI Indigo2. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Feb 9 08:53:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: 6502 cycles and subtleties (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: pete@mindy "Re: 6502 cycles and subtleties (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+)" (Feb 8, 23:09) References: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <32810.64.169.63.74.1044733276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <10302082309.ZM17996@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10302091331.ZM18589@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 8, 19:02, Eric Smith wrote: > Well, I haven't counted them, but pretty much all instructions that > use the ALU do that. This includes ADC, SBC, ORA, AND, EOR, BIT, > and (when the accumulator is the destination) LSL, ASR, ROR, and ROL. > And the PLP and PLA instructions, which increment the stack pointer > using the ALU during the next fetch. Are you sure? My understanding is that PLP and PLA increment the stack pointer *before* fetching the byte off the stack. The 6502 stack pointer always points to the next free location on the stack. It's possible that it does something like: fetch instruction decode, and set up ALU to generate SP+1 fetch [SP+1] add 1 to SP while fetching next instruction Maybe you're thinking of PHP and PHA ([SP]:=A; SP:=SP+1), which take one cycle less than PLP/PLA? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Feb 9 09:09:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse References: <6C7C831D-3C39-11D7-B78D-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E466EAB.9040507@gifford.co.uk> Ian Primus wrote: > I have one of those, it came with my Microsoft USB Optical Intellimouse. > I don't know if it will work with other mice or not though, but it works > fine with the mouse it came with, and I use it on my SGI Indigo2. I have one of those for my Logitech trackball. However, I don't think they are general-purpose USB-to-PS/2 adaptors. Such a device would require quite a bit of intelligence and probably wouln't fit in the very small adaptor. More likely, those adaptors are passive connector adaptors that also signal back to the mouse (or trackball or whatever). When the mouse starts up, it detects the adaptor and changes the behaviour of the interface accordingly. Does anybody know for sure? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From dholland at woh.rr.com Sun Feb 9 09:34:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1044804722.19122.7.camel@crusader> On Sat, 2003-02-08 at 21:41, chris wrote: > >I'd hate to > >hose the PalmOS flash - dunno if there's a way to get it back without > >building your own external re-Flasher (in the case of the IIIs and older > >that *have* removable SIMMs). > > I think they may have an ability to recover built in. > > I know when I upgraded the OS on my wife's IIIx, I had a problem with the > upgrade, and the flash didn't complete. The Palm wouldn't boot and I > thought I was hosed. But a check in the directions offered a recover > method. There is a sequence of button presses you can do that drops the > Palm into "debugger" mode, and from there, the upgrade utility could > restart the flash process and write the OS again. There are two sections to the flash memory. (the Big ROM, and the Small Rom) The Small ROM houses the that 'debugger' mode you were talking about. The Big ROM houses the the collection of PRC files that make up "PalmOS". > > Of course, you would need a copy of the Flash ROM/OS and a utility to > write it. I know you can dump your current ROM to file with the tools in > the Palm Emulator available from Palm... but the only tool I know to > write it back to the Palm is their OS upgrade tool, which means you would > have to shell out for the upgrade (or find someone else that already did > and use the software that they have). You can re-flash your memory the hard way with Linux, and prc-tools. See here: http://romeo.sourceforge.net/romrescue.html There's also a somewhat better way off those romeo pages. FWIW, (albeit this is unsupported and will void any warranty you may or may not have on your Palm) you can sign up for the Palm Developer Connection, and download Rom Images for the Palm Emulator. Said Images work reasonably well in a 'real' Palm. (At least that's how I got a IIIxe, and a III upgraded to 4.01.) David > > -chris > From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 9 09:38:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse References: <6C7C831D-3C39-11D7-B78D-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> <3E466EAB.9040507@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <000601c2d050$96aa4ee0$0400fea9@game> Those adapters are passive connecters. Some USB mice made my microsoft and Logitech (I have those brands of USB optical mice) have both ps2 and usb logic built into them and the software drivers. Same thing with the PS2 to serial adapaters ( have a few with Logitech cordless keyboard and mice package). If you try connecting a ps2 mouse that isnt serial compatible to a serial port you get all kinds of crazy things. I have seen KVM switches that have ps2 and serial connections for mice but specifically state you can use one OR the other but not both types at the same time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Honniball" To: Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:07 AM Subject: Re: PS2 Mouse > Ian Primus wrote: > > I have one of those, it came with my Microsoft USB Optical Intellimouse. > > I don't know if it will work with other mice or not though, but it works > > fine with the mouse it came with, and I use it on my SGI Indigo2. > > I have one of those for my Logitech trackball. However, I don't think > they are general-purpose USB-to-PS/2 adaptors. Such a device would > require quite a bit of intelligence and probably wouln't fit in the > very small adaptor. More likely, those adaptors are passive connector > adaptors that also signal back to the mouse (or trackball or whatever). > When the mouse starts up, it detects the adaptor and changes the > behaviour of the interface accordingly. > > Does anybody know for sure? > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk From anheier at owt.com Sun Feb 9 09:41:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PDP11 RSX-11M operating system manual In-Reply-To: <20030129054606.63178.72086.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Hi, I have a large binder containing a DEC PDP11 RSX-11M System Generation and Management Guide, version 3.2, June 1979. Also included is a RSX-11M/M-Plus MCR Operation Manual and two bound mini references. All are in excellent shape. Best offer + shipping. Thanks Norm From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Feb 9 11:01:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse In-Reply-To: <003601c2d004$e6f41e40$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, TeoZ wrote: > I was wondering if there ever was a PC PS2 type mouse addon card for > old 386 or previous AT type computers? > > I know there were bus mice, but thats not the same. > > The reason I am asking is because I have a PS2 KVM switch and want to > get my 386/DX40 computer connected to it (it doesnt have a ps2 > header). Wouldn't it just be easiest to get an PC-AT to PS/2 adapter? They're common as dirt, most new keyboards from a few years ago (and probably many still do) came with adapters to allow you to use PS/2 keyboards on older systems. Searching for "AT PS/2 keyboard adapter" in Google yields pages of results. Here's an example (I don't know anything about this vendor, so this isn't an endorsement): I don't ever recall seeing a separate PS/2 port expansion card. I do remember there being Microsoft Inport busmouse ISA cards. They use a mini DIN connector, but the pin counts and signals are different from PS/2. -brian. From allain at panix.com Sun Feb 9 11:40:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse References: <3E4595C8.10045.10F3CDF4@localhost> <1044799727.1112.7.camel@azure.subsolar> Message-ID: <003901c2d061$ed3d0700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- I could use a USB +AD0APg- PS/2 mouse adapter, so far I have not +AD4- found any such animal. I've found plenty that go the other way. Think this is one. It isn't a passthru. http://www.cyberguys.com/cgi-bin/sgin0101.exe?T1+AD0-131+-0870 On the subject... I see a lot of PS/2-female to RS232/D9-male adaptors. I assume that these are for signal sensing mice, since these adaptors Are passthru, and I get the impression from this list that PS/2 signals aren't RS232. John A. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 9 12:09:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse References: +ADw-3E4595C8.10045.10F3CDF4+AEA-localhost+AD4- +ADw-1044799727.1112.7.camel+AEA-azure.subsolar+AD4- +ADw-003901c2d061+ACQ-ed3d0700+ACQ-8a0101ac+AEA-ibm23xhr06+AD4- Message-ID: <000e01c2d065$a57e7e40$0400fea9@game> PS2 works off the keyboard controller, I was hoping somebody might have made a specialty board with keyboard controller allowing older machines to use ps2 hardware ----- Original Message ----- From: +ACI-John Allain+ACI- +ADw-allain+AEA-panix.com+AD4- To: +ADw-cctalk+AEA-classiccmp.org+AD4- Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:37 PM Subject: Re: PS2 Mouse +AD4- +AD4- I could use a USB +AD0APg- PS/2 mouse adapter, so far I have not +AD4- +AD4- found any such animal. I've found plenty that go the other way. +AD4- +AD4- Think this is one. It isn't a passthru. +AD4- http://www.cyberguys.com/cgi-bin/sgin0101.exe?T1+AD0-131+-0870 +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- On the subject... +AD4- I see a lot of PS/2-female to RS232/D9-male adaptors. +AD4- I assume that these are for signal sensing mice, +AD4- since these adaptors Are passthru, and I get the impression +AD4- from this list that PS/2 signals aren't RS232. +AD4- +AD4- John A. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 9 12:11:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse References: Message-ID: <001501c2d066$01c00c00$0400fea9@game> I wanted a PS2 mouse not keyboard connector. I mentioned AT as case and motherboard style, ATM motherboards came with ps2 ports built in. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:59 AM Subject: Re: PS2 Mouse > On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, TeoZ wrote: > > > I was wondering if there ever was a PC PS2 type mouse addon card for > > old 386 or previous AT type computers? > > > > I know there were bus mice, but thats not the same. > > > > The reason I am asking is because I have a PS2 KVM switch and want to > > get my 386/DX40 computer connected to it (it doesnt have a ps2 > > header). > > Wouldn't it just be easiest to get an PC-AT to PS/2 adapter? They're > common as dirt, most new keyboards from a few years ago (and probably > many still do) came with adapters to allow you to use PS/2 keyboards > on older systems. Searching for "AT PS/2 keyboard adapter" in Google > yields pages of results. > > Here's an example (I don't know anything about this vendor, so this > isn't an endorsement): > > > I don't ever recall seeing a separate PS/2 port expansion card. I do > remember there being Microsoft Inport busmouse ISA cards. They use a > mini DIN connector, but the pin counts and signals are different from > PS/2. > > -brian. From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sun Feb 9 12:20:00 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarlet Otter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse In-Reply-To: <001501c2d066$01c00c00$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <3E462904.1454.133304AA@localhost> From: "TeoZ" To: Subject: Re: PS2 Mouse Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 13:06:45 -0500 > I wanted a PS2 mouse not keyboard connector. > I mentioned AT as case and motherboard style, ATM motherboards came > with ps2 ports built in. > Would a DB9 Serial to PS2 adapter work? I know I see those all the time. Might have to conduct a test soon and get an old 386 hooked up with one of those adapters just to see if it will work... -- Otter From martinm at allwest.net Sun Feb 9 12:54:01 2003 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:41 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse References: <6C7C831D-3C39-11D7-B78D-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> <3E466EAB.9040507@gifford.co.uk> <000601c2d050$96aa4ee0$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <3E46A335.3080304@allwest.net> TeoZ wrote: > Those adapters are passive connecters. Some USB mice made my microsoft and > Logitech (I have those brands of USB optical mice) have both ps2 and usb > logic built into them and the software drivers. Same thing with the PS2 to > serial adapaters ( have a few with Logitech cordless keyboard and mice > package). If you try connecting a ps2 mouse that isnt serial compatible to a > serial port you get all kinds of crazy things. I have seen KVM switches that > have ps2 and serial connections for mice but specifically state you can use > one OR the other but not both types at the same time. I use a KVM like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3401251919&category=3666 This is a Cybex SwitchView. Note that the console ports are ps/2. The computer ports have both ps/2 and serial mouse connections (don't connect both serial and ps/2 mice cables to one computer). Use a ps/2 to AT keyboard adapteron the ps/2 keyboard cable and the serial mouse cable for AT boxes. Use both ps/2 cables for ps/2 boxes. Note that not all Cybex SwitchView KVM's have both serial and ps/2 mouse connectors. Martin From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 9 12:56:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse References: <3E462904.1454.133304AA@localhost> Message-ID: <002601c2d06c$46cd4be0$0400fea9@game> Maybe I didnt explain what I want to do well enough. I have a 4 port SOHO KVM switch (4 computers to 1 monitor, ps2 mouse, ps2 keyboard, 1 pair of speakers, 1 microphone, also switches USB but no way a 386 will do USB). This device only uses ps2 inputs and outputs for keyboard and mouse, not serial mice. Using an adapter would just feed a ps2 mouse signal to a serial communication port causing all kinds of hell on the KVM switch like giving a digital signal to a device waiting for analog data. Even if the mouse could run serial and ps2 the mouse would detect the device its attached to (kvm not the computer) as ps2. The only way to get what I want would be to get an onboard ISA card that accepts ps2 mouse input that is being fed to it from the KVM. I was hoping some industrial computer company would have made such an adapter card so that you would free up the serial ports for communications to other devices. This was done with Bus mice, but that interface quickly died out so I assumed they might have made one that used PS2 (since ps2 mice are still plentiful new) to retrofit the older systems. If a card did exist it would most likely be in a cheap surplus equipment bin since 10+ year old industrial computers would be getting replaced by now. Only other option is to replace a perfectly good 386DX40 computer with a name brand Gateway 386 type of computer that had ps2 ports built into its proprietary motherboard which I would rather not do. So for the moment I am stuck with another mouse on my desktop.. things could be worse. Just seeing if there was a more elegant solution. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scarlet Otter" To: Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:10 PM Subject: Re: PS2 Mouse > From: "TeoZ" > To: > Subject: Re: PS2 Mouse > Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > Date sent: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 13:06:45 -0500 > > > I wanted a PS2 mouse not keyboard connector. > > I mentioned AT as case and motherboard style, ATM motherboards came > > with ps2 ports built in. > > > > Would a DB9 Serial to PS2 adapter work? I know I see those all the > time. Might have to conduct a test soon and get an old 386 hooked up > with one of those adapters just to see if it will work... > > -- Otter From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 9 12:58:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: 6502 cycles and subtleties (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: <10302091331.ZM18589@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <32810.64.169.63.74.1044733276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <10302082309.ZM17996@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <10302091331.ZM18589@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <32809.64.169.63.74.1044816941.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Are you sure? My understanding is that PLP and PLA increment the stack > pointer *before* fetching the byte off the stack. [...] > Maybe you're thinking of PHP and PHA ([SP]:=A; SP:=SP+1), which take one > cycle less than PLP/PLA? You're right, I was confused. From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 9 13:08:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030208201620.00ae1cf0@66.67.226.217> Message-ID: <000901c2d06e$604b4200$6401a8c0@benchbox> Roger has a couple of Palm machines and I doubt you'll get him to go for a PocketPC if you held a gun to his head. So, this thread is about Palm. I still think the idea of porting MiNT makes sense. If you can get a GCC compiler/cross-compiler for it. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Boffemmyer IV Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 8:44 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Odd ideas that I've had lately... Roger: first off: serial/usb isn't really built in. you have to plop it into a cradle to get the usb/serial connection or get a usb/serial adaptor to plug into the palm, it is NOT built in on most models that I know of. Second, the idea of the mini portable PC is to take something slightly larger than a palm and give it some real power so you can connect it to anything you feel like it in the field. Say, I go over to Sridhar's house From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 9 13:17:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse In-Reply-To: <1044799727.1112.7.camel@azure.subsolar> from "Paul Berger" at Feb 9, 3 08:08:47 am Message-ID: > > I'm pretty sure I've seen ISA PS2 cards. I'll have to check next > > time I go on a Geekware Scavenger Hunt. :) > > > > Seems reasonable, since there are 8086, 286, and 386 systems that > > have PS2 ports. > > I have never seen them, the PS-2 ports were controlled by the keyboard > controller chip, if I remember correctly, so I would think it would be While this is true on the genuine PS/2 machines (and the mouse protocol is very similar to a PC/AT or PS/2 keyboard protocol), there's no reason why it _has_ to be. It would be possible to make an ISA card with a programmed microcontroller on it (maybe an 8042, like the keyboard controller) with the host port at some otherwise unused I/O address, and then use a special driver (similar in concept to the serial and bus mouse drivers) to access it. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 9 13:17:31 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse In-Reply-To: <3E466EAB.9040507@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Feb 9, 3 03:07:23 pm Message-ID: > I have one of those for my Logitech trackball. However, I don't think > they are general-purpose USB-to-PS/2 adaptors. Such a device would I'm almost sure it's not general purpose. > require quite a bit of intelligence and probably wouln't fit in the > very small adaptor. More likely, those adaptors are passive connector > adaptors that also signal back to the mouse (or trackball or whatever). > When the mouse starts up, it detects the adaptor and changes the > behaviour of the interface accordingly. > > Does anybody know for sure? Well, that's certainly what most of the serial - PS/2 adapters supplied with mice are. The mouse detects the adapter (or in this case detects the 12V levels of a serial port) and behaves accordingly. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 9 13:17:44 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Eureka! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030208194020.3c0f3a20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Feb 8, 3 07:40:20 pm Message-ID: > Well I didn't find the Holy Grail but this is close! I went to a > hamfest today and in a box of junk I found the operating program for the > HP 9877 Mass Memory unit! That's the box that has up to four tape Well done... > drives installed and was used to mass duplicate HP 9825 tapes at the HP FWIW, the 9877 contains a small PSU (based, IIRC, on the 9825 PSU), 1-4 tape drives, the same number of controller cards (electrically and mechanically idendentical to the one in the 9825) and a little interface PCB. The last is the only part that's really 'custom' for the 9877. I assume it connects to the 9825 using a 98032 16 bit interface. Do you (or anoyne else) have the wiring for the cable and the jumpers for the 98032? That's something else I've not managed to find (98032s I have, plenty of them). [...] > program for it till now. The tape APPEARS to be in good condition but > you know how HP tapes are :-( If it is readable, can the 9877 be used to duplicate it? -tony From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Feb 9 13:26:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse In-Reply-To: <001501c2d066$01c00c00$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, TeoZ wrote: > I wanted a PS2 mouse not keyboard connector. > I mentioned AT as case and motherboard style, ATM motherboards came with ps2 > ports built in. Ahh.. Pre-coffee thinking has ruined the day! -brian. From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Sun Feb 9 15:16:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse In-Reply-To: <003901c2d061$ed3d0700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3E4595C8.10045.10F3CDF4@localhost> <1044799727.1112.7.camel@azure.subsolar> <003901c2d061$ed3d0700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1044825458.1176.6.camel@azure.subsolar> On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 11:37, John Allain wrote: > > I could use a USB => PS/2 mouse adapter, so far I have not > > found any such animal. I've found plenty that go the other way. > > Think this is one. It isn't a passthru. > http://www.cyberguys.com/cgi-bin/sgin0101.exe?T1=131+0870 That's a PS/2 => USB adapter ... the opposite of what I'm looking for. ::sigh:: I think I'll have try see if it works going though a switchbox with a scroller mouse. Redhat 8.0 works wonderfully with USB scroll mice, but although it technically supports them via PS/2, USB works better. Maybe a PS/2 KVM switch with one of the PS2 => USB adapters might work and still support the scroll mouse. Paul From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Feb 9 15:21:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: 6502 cycles and subtleties (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: "Eric Smith" "Re: 6502 cycles and subtleties (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+)" (Feb 9, 10:55) References: <00d501c2cf8d$a1dabac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <32810.64.169.63.74.1044733276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <10302082309.ZM17996@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <10302091331.ZM18589@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <32809.64.169.63.74.1044816941.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <10302092053.ZM18856@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 9, 10:55, Eric Smith wrote: > > Are you sure? My understanding is that PLP and PLA increment the stack > > pointer *before* fetching the byte off the stack. > [...] > > Maybe you're thinking of PHP and PHA ([SP]:=A; SP:=SP+1), which take one > > cycle less than PLP/PLA? > > You're right, I was confused. Phew! I was beginning to wonder if the 6502 is more bizarre than I already knew :-) You missed the mistake though -- I should have written SP:=SP-1 (no it wasn't a test, I only just noticed). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Sun Feb 9 15:28:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse In-Reply-To: <002601c2d06c$46cd4be0$0400fea9@game> References: <3E462904.1454.133304AA@localhost> <002601c2d06c$46cd4be0$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <1044826142.1176.15.camel@azure.subsolar> On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 12:51, TeoZ wrote: > Maybe I didnt explain what I want to do well enough. > > I have a 4 port SOHO KVM switch (4 computers to 1 monitor, ps2 mouse, ps2 > keyboard, 1 pair of speakers, 1 microphone, also switches USB but no way a > 386 will do USB). > This device only uses ps2 inputs and outputs for keyboard and mouse, not > serial mice. Well I did a quick google search for "Convert ps/2 to serial mouse" and found the following: http://www.vetra.com/327text.html Regards, Paul From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Feb 9 15:32:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Interesting finds Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA42@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi, While hauling some VAX and StorageWorks stuff yesterday, I bumped into a Philips PTS6000 machine (actually, two.. a larger one, and a smaller one), some HP stuff (looks like HP Big Iron) and the cabinet of a DECarray system. Anyone interested? Pics available. --fred From dancohoe at oxford.net Sun Feb 9 16:02:00 2003 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Eureka! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c2d086$8d63acb0$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> Here's what my manual says about jumpers for the 98032A: Jumper Function (when Installed) ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ 1 Indicates input data lines are positive -true 2 Indicates output data lines are positive -true 3 Inverts PCTL to high=set, low=clear 4 Inverts PFLG to high =ready, low=busy 5 Inverts PSTS to high=not OK, low=OK 6 Set for pulse-mode handshake 7 Required for DMA transfers /8 Clock high input byte when PLFG goes from ready to busy *-9 Clock high input byte when PLFG goes from busy to ready \A Clock high input byte on R6-IN operation B Select words (16 bit) input mode /C Clock low input byte on R4-IN operation *-D Clock low input byte when PLFG goes from ready to busy \E Clock low input byte when PLFG goes from busy to ready F Select words (16 bit) output mode * Select only one of these three This comes from a manual called: Interfacing Concepts and the 9825A (part number 09825-90060) If you need more of the 98032A details from this book, I could scan the section. ......I just found the actual 98032A Installation and service manual(98032-90000). Given a couple of days, I could scan it and send it to someone to put up on a site. Its 45 pages long. I have no resources here to do anything except get the scanning done and email the files to someone else Dan Cohoe > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:46 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Eureka! > > > > Well I didn't find the Holy Grail but this is close! I went to a > > hamfest today and in a box of junk I found the operating > program for the > > HP 9877 Mass Memory unit! That's the box that has up to four tape > > Well done... > > > drives installed and was used to mass duplicate HP 9825 > tapes at the HP > > FWIW, the 9877 contains a small PSU (based, IIRC, on the 9825 > PSU), 1-4 > tape drives, the same number of controller cards (electrically and > mechanically idendentical to the one in the 9825) and a > little interface > PCB. The last is the only part that's really 'custom' for the 9877. > > I assume it connects to the 9825 using a 98032 16 bit > interface. Do you > (or anoyne else) have the wiring for the cable and the > jumpers for the > 98032? That's something else I've not managed to find (98032s I have, > plenty of them). > > [...] > > > program for it till now. The tape APPEARS to be in good > condition but > > you know how HP tapes are :-( > > If it is readable, can the 9877 be used to duplicate it? > > -tony From ekklein at pacbell.net Sun Feb 9 16:09:01 2003 From: ekklein at pacbell.net (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: CCS 2422 Floppy Disk Controller Message-ID: <000001c2cfd2$2f6dc500$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I recently acquired a California Computer Systems model 2422 Floppy Disk Controller Rev B. (S-100) in what appears to be good condition but missing a 2716 EPROM presumably containing the onboard BIOS. Does anyone have this card and the capability of providing me with a copy of the PROM or at least a dump of it? I'd also love to get my hands on the docs, if available. Thank you, Erik From vance at neurotica.com Sun Feb 9 16:09:19 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030208201620.00ae1cf0@66.67.226.217> Message-ID: I'm pretty sure that the connector on the bottom of the serial Palms are electrically identical to serial. I'm not sure about the USB Palms. Peace... Sridhar From shawnmhoffman at yahoo.com Sun Feb 9 16:09:53 2003 From: shawnmhoffman at yahoo.com (Shawn H.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Main-frame hard drive (maybe) avaliable Message-ID: <20030209033504.30235.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I just thought of something which might be of interest to someone out there. Several years ago I got ahold of a monsterous main-frame type hard drive. I really have no idea what kind of system it came from, but the box was about three feet long, one foot tall, and one foot wide (as I remember it). The disks inside were about 8-10 inches across (I could see them through a little window in the casing). You could turm two screw like things on the front of the box and then lift the cover. Inside was the disk assembly and then another panel of electronics that would swing down from the cover of the box. This whole monster weighed about 60 pounds or so I would say. On the back were two receptacles for connecting it to whatever computer it originally came from. The plugs that plugged into the recepticles were sqaure as I remember it and there was a flat 1" wide cable that came out of each plug. The cables had been cut off of so I don't know what the other end looked like. On the front of the box there were two or three buttons I think. Probably one reset, one power on/off, and one lock/unlock--that's what I seem to recall. Anyway, I took this hard drive back where I got it from because I couldn't figure out any use for it. But if any of you know how to connect this thing to something and are interested in it I may be able to get it back again. It's been out in the weather for several years, but from my experience wheather doesn't affect computers much--the older ones at least. I have gotten some computers that were snowed and rained on and had mud splattered all over them, but they still worked. There was even one computer I got where the battery had leaked all over the mother board and started to eat it away.....but it still worked!! Needless to say, I was amazed!! Well, let me know if you are intersted in this hard drive. I am raising money for a mission trip and that's part of the reason I wondering if this has any value to anybody. Also I hate to see it "rot" out there. ;-) I can't send you any pictures of the drive itself because I don't have it right now, but I think I do have the cable lying around here yet. I could send pics of that or try to describe it if that would help any. By the way, I think the brand name on this device may have been "Digital"; I could be wrong, but a lot of the other parts I got there were made by the "Digital" company so I suspect the hard drive may have been too. (I also have a large plug-in electronics board from some main-frame type computer that I got at the same place if anybody has an interest in that). I know old main-frame parts have value to the right person and I wouldn't mind trying to get it if someone is interested, but please be sure you are really seriously interested before you ask me to get it! :-) It is more than likely buried under a lot of junk and I would have to dig it out which could be quite a job!! But I would be more than willing to try and get it if you are seriously interested; I just don't want to go through all that work and then be stuck with it myself. :-) I can try to describe it better if that would help, but I'll wait to see if anybody has an interest first. Take care all, Shawn :-) Smile, God loves you!! From freddy at kotelna.sk Sun Feb 9 16:10:07 2003 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: OT: SC/SC couplers available (was: Re: 10Base-FL) In-Reply-To: <10302082336.ZM18097@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10302070003.ZM16322@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030207124428.GA31575@kotol.kotelna.sk> <10302082336.ZM18097@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20030209085244.GA11982@kotol.kotelna.sk> pete@dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) wrote : > On Feb 7, 13:44, Adrien Farkas wrote: > > pete@dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) wrote : > > > > >SMAs suck big time, and couplers for STs are expensive. > ^^ > Oops, did I really write that? I meant that couplers for SCs are > expensive; ST couplers are cheap. :) > > a propos fiber couplers, does anyone have a few they might miss? I'm > > after SC/SC couplers preferrably with direct SC duplex connector > > pluggable. I might get a few, but those aren't ready for duplex > > connectors, just single SC simplex. > > Duplex ones are just two simplex ones side by side. Use tape or glue. _these_ 'simplex' aren't really simples, they're duplex, but connected not side by side, but opposite, which makes a need to cut all my sc cables into two simplex, which I'd like to avoid. I called it 'simplex', because I wasn't able to describe it properly. hmm, i might to move to STs, but ut's fddi cabling systems and all my cards are either SC or MIC (FDDI), so I might need bunch of ST cables and pigtails. sure, ebay is my friend, but you know, shipping this stuff to europe is quite expensive ;) and I have lots of fddi & sc cables already, just missing some stuff to connect it together, this is wher the couplers come. cheers, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Sun Feb 9 16:10:21 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <200302051338.IAA03669@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <006801c2d07a$595538a0$0201c80a@vic20> Hello Bryan, Perhaps I wasn't clear on this -- I'm not part of the project in any official manner, I just pride myself at being one of its earliest contributors... As for why no C64/C128/VIC20 -- it'll come too, probably, some day. They add platforms all the time. Tomer > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bryan Pope > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 3:38 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > And thusly Tomer Gabel spake: > > > > MobyGames is not an abandonware website -- it's a > repository of information > > of all sorts on all games. An ambitious project, but I've > been with it since > > it started and it's coming off amazingly well. > > > > I noticed it has DOS games from 1981... Why do you have > Amiga games but no > Commodore games? > > Cheers, > > Bryan From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Sun Feb 9 16:10:41 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <1044423625.1662.6.camel@azure.subsolar> Message-ID: <006b01c2d07a$d79d4130$0201c80a@vic20> Just to mention a few: Kenny did the music for the excellent One Must Fall: 2097. Several trackers (including Dan Nicholson, a.k.a Maelcum/KFMF) worked with Toys for Bob on Star Control 2 and Archon Ultra. Finally, Alexander Brandon (a.k.a Chromatic Dragon and later on Siren/FM) did some amazing music for some amazing computer games, including but not limited to Tyrian, Deus-Ex, Unreal (some of his best work!), Unreal Tournament. Also, who was it that did the music for Jazz Jackrabbit? To hell with it, that entire GAME was made exclusively by ex-Ultraforce demosceners. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Paul Berger > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:40 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > On Sun, 2003-02-02 at 14:46, Tomer Gabel wrote: > > Regardless the phenomenon was indeed not widespread in the > US; the major > > demo groups were Hornet (Jim Leonard a.k.a Trixter of > Hornet later went on > > to form www.oldskool.org, www.mobygames.com and www.mindcandydvd.com) and > Reinnaisance (sp? some members went on to program or do music for games). I was too old to get involved much with the "demo scene" although the local computer club we did do stuff like demos back in the late 70's early 80's before computers became mainstream. Kenny Chow (CC Catch) of Renissance went on to make game music for Epic Mega games. I don't know of any recent projects he has done though. Several better trackers from the early 90s went on to do lots of game music. Paul From dan.stanger at ieee.org Sun Feb 9 16:10:57 2003 From: dan.stanger at ieee.org (Dan Stanger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Working pga adapter, monitor and manual Message-ID: <3E46CD81.58555E4C@ieee.org> Free for shipping from Denver, CO 80222. One catch, you have to take the 286 computer its in. From kth at srv.net Sun Feb 9 16:27:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... References: Message-ID: <3E46DA68.1000609@srv.net> vance@neurotica.com wrote: >I'm pretty sure that the connector on the bottom of the serial Palms are >electrically identical to serial. I'm not sure about the USB Palms. > > The difference between serial/usb visors is in the base. If you have a usb base, it connects to a usb port, but if you have a serial base, it talks to a serial port. You can by the other base for your visor, and it works perfectly (been therem done that). I'd guess that most of the palms (and compatibale) are the same. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Feb 9 16:29:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine Message-ID: <006501c2d08a$58570f40$860cdd40@oemcomputer> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2155564921 From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Feb 9 16:39:01 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: DEC Extenders up for auction Message-ID: <200302091436360444.6F4EAA8F@192.168.42.130> Onwers of DEC Qbus or UniBus boxes; It may interest you to know that I've put up a pair of DEC'ish card extenders for auction on E-pay. Here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3401378577 There's a dual-height and a quad-height, selling as a pair, starting at $10.00. Thanks for putting up with another ad. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Feb 9 16:53:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Looking for info on UNISYS UN6065 B50 system Message-ID: <011001c2d08d$b45ac950$860cdd40@oemcomputer> Got UNISYS UN6065 yesterday at an auction and got only two hits on Google site both no good. Any one know were I can find more? Thanks From evan947 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 9 17:01:01 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Sharp IQ-3000 language translator? Message-ID: <20030209225834.38636.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Hello out there... anybody have data on the Sharp IQ-3000, a language translator gadget from 1980? All I can find is the miniscule reference below. http://sharp-world.com/corporate/info/his/chronology/p6.html From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sun Feb 9 17:01:26 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarlet Otter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine In-Reply-To: <006501c2d08a$58570f40$860cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3E466A9B.650.14334607@localhost> From: "Keys" To: "cctech@classiccmp" Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:26:49 -0600 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2155564921 15K and reserve not met? Either that seller is one ultra greedy bastard, or he did it with the intent to offer it to the highest bidder without paying the end of auction fees. $15,000 for a single magazine...That would set me up for a year at least, considering my modest but comfortable lifestyle. :) Anyone want a old copy of Home Office Computing? I can autograph it for you, and will only charge $10,000. >:) -- Otter From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Feb 9 17:05:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: HP-85 stuff posted for auction Message-ID: <76.29e162c8.2b7837fc@aol.com> A couple of days ago I posted for auction a bunch of HP-85 stuff. More to come as I find it. Includes ROM pacs, a 128K memory pac and a GP-IO & serial interfaces. http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0& userid=innfosale&sort=3&rows=25&since=-1&rd=1 my seller name is innfosale Thanks for putting up with the post. Paxton Astoria, OR From jwillis at arielusa.com Sun Feb 9 17:22:01 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB779@deathstar.arielnet.com> Anyone out there have experience with HP 9000 "Nova" class systems? Specifically the 9000/800 I40 especially, but any in the class. John From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sun Feb 9 17:22:22 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > This gives me awfully devious ideas... First, were there any 'multitasking > machines' designed around the 6502? If you wanted to do multitasking, it > seems like you could design a fairly simple MMU that would swap out the > zero-page and stack (or all of the memory pages) for different ones, > depending on the running task. Leaving only a few registers that need to > be saved, it would leave a very small overhead for task swapping. Ohio Scientific OS-65U. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sun Feb 9 17:34:00 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine In-Reply-To: <3E466A9B.650.14334607@localhost> Message-ID: Well, I've been wondering what this guy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3400821061&category=1247 thinks an OSI C1-P with a broken mainboard is worth. Look at the pics closely, I've encountered a couple of C1-Ps in this condition, the keyboard at a tilt like that is a dead give-away. This is the third time he has listed it, and $255 didn't meet his reserve on the last go-around. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 9 17:34:40 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Eureka! In-Reply-To: <000201c2d086$8d63acb0$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> from "Dan Cohoe" at Feb 9, 3 04:59:42 pm Message-ID: > Here's what my manual says about jumpers for the 98032A: [...] Sure. I have the Installation/Service manual for the 98032, which gives much the same info (and a full schematic of the interface). The 98032 had several 'options', though. The basic model was for custom applications and had a back shell with an unterminated cable (which you had to wire to the appropriate connector(s) for your applications), and no jumpers installed. The 'options' were for specific HP peripherals. I believe that the 9866 printer, one of the disk drives, the 9877 cartridge tape unit, a badged Facit 4070 paper tape punch, etc were all connected to the 9825 via a correctly configured 98032 interface. The 'option' consisted of having the right connector correctly wired to the cable and having the right jumpers factory-installed to set the interface up correctly. Alas the manual I have does not give any info on how the 'options' were wired. Yes I could probably work it out in most cases, but it would be nice to know the official way to do it. Here's an example, from the only 'option' I have -- for the 9885 disk drive: DD50 Wire 98032 Signal 1 9 A25 Drain 2 905 A1 Gnd 3 906 B1 Gnd 4 927 A22 Ctl0 5 902 A21 PReset 6 928 A23 Ctl1 7 918 B21 EIR 8 9 A18 Gnd 9 9 B18 Drain 10 98 A19 Pctl 11 903 A24 Gnd 12 904 B24 Gnd 13 8 B19 Pflg 14 908 B20 Psts 15 901 A20 I/O 16 916 B22 Sti0 17 917 B23 Sti1 18 948 A2 DO15 19 947 A3 DO14 20 946 A4 DO13 21 945 A5 DO12 22 937 A6 DO11 23 936 A7 DO10 24 935 A8 DO9 25 934 A9 DO8 26 97 A10 DO7 27 96 A11 DO6 28 95 A12 D05 29 94 A13 DO4 30 93 A14 DO3 31 92 A15 DO2 32 91 A16 DO1 33 90 A17 DO0 34 N/C 35 926 B2 DI15 36 925 B3 DI14 37 924 B4 DI13 38 923 B5 DI12 39 915 B6 DI11 40 914 B7 DI10 41 913 B8 DI9 42 912 B9 DI8 43 7 B10 DI7 44 6 B11 DI6 45 5 B12 DI5 46 4 B13 DI4 47 3 B14 DI3 48 2 B15 DI2 49 1 B16 DI1 50 0 B17 DI0 Jumpers : 2 Output +ve true 7 DMA Enable 8 Clock high input byte on rdy B Word Input E Clock low input byte on rdy F Word Output THe 9877 has a 50 pin Blue Ribbon connector on the back. I know what the signals on that are, and can make a guess at how to wire them to a 98032. I can also make a guess as to what jumpers to fit. But if anyone has the right option it would save that guess work. -tony From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sun Feb 9 18:43:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB779@deathstar.arielnet.com> References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB779@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <1044837627.5476.0.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 18:19, John Willis wrote: > Anyone out there have experience with HP 9000 "Nova" class systems? > Specifically the 9000/800 I40 especially, but any in the class. > > John Don't know if it is in the "Nova" class, but I've got an HP 9000/832 sitting here in the basement. It even works. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Feb 9 19:14:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: OT: SC/SC couplers available (was: Re: 10Base-FL) In-Reply-To: Adrien Farkas "Re: OT: SC/SC couplers available (was: Re: 10Base-FL)" (Feb 9, 9:52) References: <10302070003.ZM16322@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030207124428.GA31575@kotol.kotelna.sk> <10302082336.ZM18097@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030209085244.GA11982@kotol.kotelna.sk> Message-ID: <10302100112.ZM19070@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 9, 9:52, Adrien Farkas wrote: > _these_ 'simplex' aren't really simples, they're duplex, but connected > not side by side, but opposite, which makes a need to cut all my sc > cables into two simplex, which I'd like to avoid. I called it 'simplex', > because I wasn't able to describe it properly. Oh, I see. Yes, hard to describe concisely, I suppose they're a sort of "dual simplex" ;-) > hmm, i might to move to STs, but ut's fddi cabling systems and all my > cards are either SC or MIC (FDDI), so I might need bunch of ST cables > and pigtails. sure, ebay is my friend, but you know, shipping this stuff > to europe is quite expensive ;) and I have lots of fddi & sc cables > already, just missing some stuff to connect it together, this is wher > the couplers come. The fibre in my house and workshop is 50/125 FDDI stuff recovered from work. We don't use FDDI any more so I liberated several 10-metre and 20-metre patch cables, cut off the MICs, and re-terminated them with STs. The tools and materials I needed to do that cost about ?100 from TechOptics (luckily, I could borrow a microscope, so I didn't have to buy that) and it's not hard to do. TechOptics don't have prices on their website but they're much cheaper than most catalogues, and quite helpful on the phone. http://www.techoptics.com It took two evenings to reterminate 4 cables, both ends. One evening to strip, wait an hour to let them rest, then crimp and epoxy the STs; the second evening to cleave and polish the ends. I kept a few shorter cables that are ST-to-MIC and acquired a few ST-to-SC cables when I got my ATM kit. Even most of my FDDI kit uses ST or SC connectors; the only thing I have with MIC connectors (other than adaptors for SGI FDDI cards) is an ATM-to-FDDI bridge. I've not done it myself, but someone I know has done a lot of splicing with gel-filled splices, which are quite cheap (though you really need a splice box as well). You can get them from TechOptics too. However, if you already have most of the cables you need, and just want a few couplers, just buy the couplers. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Feb 9 19:49:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Eureka! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030208194020.3c0f3a20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030209204853.4e972c12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:45 PM 2/9/03 +0000, you wrote: >> Well I didn't find the Holy Grail but this is close! I went to a >> hamfest today and in a box of junk I found the operating program for the >> HP 9877 Mass Memory unit! That's the box that has up to four tape > >Well done... I thought so :-) > >> drives installed and was used to mass duplicate HP 9825 tapes at the HP > >FWIW, the 9877 contains a small PSU (based, IIRC, on the 9825 PSU), 1-4 >tape drives, the same number of controller cards (electrically and >mechanically idendentical to the one in the 9825) and a little interface >PCB. The last is the only part that's really 'custom' for the 9877. > >I assume it connects to the 9825 using a 98032 16 bit interface. Correct. somewhere I do have the installation manual for the 9877 and it does clearly show a 98032 interface. I don't remember the option number of the interface but it's probably 77 or 077. That seems to be typical of how HP assigns option numbers on the 98032. Do you >(or anoyne else) have the wiring for the cable and the jumpers for the >98032? No, that's another thing that needs to be found. NASA does have the interface on theirs but I couldn't get them to give me any info about the jumpers or anything other than the interface PN. That's something else I've not managed to find (98032s I have, >plenty of them). Same here. > >[...] > >> program for it till now. The tape APPEARS to be in good condition but >> you know how HP tapes are :-( > >If it is readable, can the 9877 be used to duplicate it? It should be able to. AFIK the 9877 will duplicate all 9825 tapes. Accroding to an x-HP engineer that was one of the 9825 developers, the 9877 was designed specificly for HP factory use to mass duplicate 9825 tapes so I would think it would duplicate everything. I don't remember if the 9825 has a file protect command or not but if so then it might not duplicate protected files. Let's just hope that this tape is good. I need to find somebody that has a 9825 with REAL good tape drive and that can read this tape and make some copies. I'm wondering if there might be any way to read and duplicate the tape that would be gentler on it. Any ideas? Joe > >-tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Feb 9 19:50:03 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine In-Reply-To: <006501c2d08a$58570f40$860cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030209203400.4f370e26@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:26 PM 2/9/03 -0600, you wrote: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2155564921 > I think anybody that would pay that kind of money without a LOT more proof of authenticity is an idiot! A rich idiot perhaps but an idiot none the less. I noticed that the seller has zero feedback so they must be new to E-bay (or they've changed their identity). Sounds like a grand formula for a rip-off to me! Joe From jss at subatomix.com Sun Feb 9 19:59:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: DEC Extenders up for auction In-Reply-To: <200302091436360444.6F4EAA8F@192.168.42.130> References: <200302091436360444.6F4EAA8F@192.168.42.130> Message-ID: <19029426212.20030209195633@subatomix.com> On Sunday, February 9, 2003, Bruce Lane wrote: > Onwers of DEC Qbus or UniBus boxes; It may interest you to know that I've > put up a pair of DEC'ish card extenders for auction on E-pay. Here's the > link: Thanks for the ad -- really. I just put in my bid. Now that my electronics learning is progressing, I could really use a set of these to start poking around in my PDP-11s! -- Jeffrey Sharp From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Sun Feb 9 20:00:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1044842465.1976.10.camel@azure.subsolar> On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 17:19, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > This gives me awfully devious ideas... First, were there any 'multitasking > > machines' designed around the 6502? If you wanted to do multitasking, it > > seems like you could design a fairly simple MMU that would swap out the > > zero-page and stack (or all of the memory pages) for different ones, > > depending on the running task. Leaving only a few registers that need to > > be saved, it would leave a very small overhead for task swapping. > > Ohio Scientific OS-65U. Never played with the C3 series, had a toy C1P myself, from what I remember each user had a 48K memory card that bank switched, not an elegant solution but worked. ::sigh:: 6502 loved it and hated it. Paul From jss at subatomix.com Sun Feb 9 20:03:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Main-frame hard drive (maybe) avaliable In-Reply-To: <20030209033504.30235.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030209033504.30235.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4529684173.20030209200051@subatomix.com> On Saturday, February 8, 2003, Shawn H. wrote: > Several years ago I got ahold of a monsterous main-frame type hard drive. Yes, we are into stuff like that. But the important question is this: Where is this? -- Jeffrey Sharp From allain at panix.com Sun Feb 9 20:05:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Main-frame hard drive (maybe) avaliable References: <20030209033504.30235.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003d01c2d0a8$8080c100$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > ...the box was about three feet long, one foot tall, ... on front of the box there were > two or three buttons .. Sounds alot like a Fujistu 8?" FSD/SMD. Used in the early Apollo 'personal' workstations, although those suckers (the Apollo) probably weighed 500lbs complete. The concept of what a personal workstation is has changed somewhat since then. This guy (the Fujitsu) was considered a size breakthrough in ~1980. Mainframe disk drives were 5X bigger by weight. John A. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 9 20:18:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? Message-ID: <20030210021523.43578.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Second time around, I won an ELT-320 on ePay... unfortunately, this one has no PSU. Could one of the owners of one on this list e-mail me the pinouts? From the auction I _didn't_ win, it appears that it takes +12VDC @ 2.5A. The question is how/where. The picture seems to suggest that's it's via a DIN-5 connector at the corner of the back side. Thanks for any help. -ethan From marvin at rain.org Sun Feb 9 20:29:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine References: <3.0.6.16.20030209203400.4f370e26@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E470DD9.596DF1B6@rain.org> You might have also noticed the location was Santa Barbara, California, a place I am quite familiar with :). There is also someone here in Santa Barbara that appears to be a scammer as I have heard from a couple of sources about this "person". If I were to even pay a fraction of what this auction was going for, I would pick it up in person, AND have it verified before any cash changed hands. Joe wrote: > > At 04:26 PM 2/9/03 -0600, you wrote: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2155564921 > > > > I think anybody that would pay that kind of money without a LOT more proof of authenticity is an idiot! A rich idiot perhaps but an idiot none the less. > > I noticed that the seller has zero feedback so they must be new to E-bay (or they've changed their identity). Sounds like a grand formula for a rip-off to me! > > Joe From fernande at internet1.net Sun Feb 9 20:40:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Looking for info on UNISYS UN6065 B50 system In-Reply-To: <011001c2d08d$b45ac950$860cdd40@oemcomputer> References: <011001c2d08d$b45ac950$860cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3E470FD3.1040301@internet1.net> Keys wrote: > Got UNISYS UN6065 yesterday at an auction and got only two hits on Google > site both no good. Any one know were I can find more? Thanks > > Try searching through Usenet.... comp.sys.unisys Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Feb 9 20:43:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine Message-ID: <200302100240.VAA123262854@shell.TheWorld.com> >>I think anybody that would pay that kind of money without a LOT more >>proof of authenticity is an idiot! A rich idiot perhaps but an idiot >>none the less. >I noticed that the seller has zero feedback so they must be new to E-bay >(or they've changed their identity). Sounds like a grand formula for a >rip-off to me! Unfortunately, a positive feedback (say, in the hundreds) also does not guarantee that you won't get ripped-off. I recently (well, November of last year), purchased something through ebay from someone who had about 140+ for their feedback... and very few negatives. I sent them the payment for the item ($300+) and although they kept sending emails about how they were going to get it out to me, with some extras due to the delay, the person never did ship the item. His contact information was totally bogus (the mail-to address was different from what the person had on file with ebay, which I didn't get until it was too late and I was reporting a problem). The phone number was no good (again, I didn't have that until there was a problem). Now, the person's account is inactive... So, don't assume anything from a feedback profile value... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Feb 9 21:26:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Seeking info on two PROM chips. In-Reply-To: <200302100240.VAA123262854@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: Does anyone have details on the following ROM or PROM chips from a DEC VAXstation 4000 VLC? Their identifying numbers are LUP9327580 (DEC part# 23-286E8-00) and LUP9331604 (DEC part# 23-287E8-00); they're each 40-pin DIPs. The U's may actually be O's or 0's; it's difficult to tell given the DEC part number label placement. I'm assuming they're programmable as I believe I managed to stomp on a writeable area of the chips, rendering the boot console code they hold non-functional. Fortunately, they're sitting in sockets. And also fortunately, I've another system with functional versions of the same. I'm interested in finding out more details about what their specs are, and the possibilities for either reprogramming them or equivalent parts. Thanks. -brian. From ken at seefried.com Sun Feb 9 22:19:00 2003 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: PACEMIPPS? In-Reply-To: <20030209180001.18059.78779.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030209180001.18059.78779.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030210041626.9725.qmail@mail.seefried.com> From: Joe >Can anyone tell me exactly what a PACEMIPS PIMM - 33SG144C is? It's >made byPerformance Semiconductor but it's not listed on their (POOR!) >website. I THINK it might be an R33000 embedded processor but I'm not >sure. Performance Semi, AFAIK, generally does semiconductors for military/aerospace applications. I recall dimly that they made some MIL-SPEC MIPS devices; this would perhaps be one of them. The part number you cite is not familiar, but might be one of the line of R3000+R3010 derivatives. Not as esoteric as their relatively popular MIL-STD-1750A processors, but unusual none-the-less. I've actually got some Performance Semi 1750A chipsets...I must think of something to do with them... Ken From jss at subatomix.com Sun Feb 9 22:30:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:42 2005 Subject: Main-frame hard drive (maybe) avaliable In-Reply-To: <4529684173.20030209200051@subatomix.com> References: <20030209033504.30235.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> <4529684173.20030209200051@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <17038531505.20030209222818@subatomix.com> Earlier, I wrote: > > Several years ago I got ahold of a monsterous main-frame type hard > > drive. > > Yes, we are into stuff like that. But the important question is this: > Where is this? Here is the reply I got: > Are you asking where I live? I'm in North Dakota. If you're asking where > the hard drive is, that's at the junk yard. I think it's now buried under > a pile of school desks, but I think it could be unburied. There were > actually two or three of them there. There was at least two whole ones and > then parts of some more I remember seeing. > > Where do you live? I will be coming south in a month or two for the > mission trip. I will be driving from ND to TN. I might be able to bring it > along if you're anywhere along that route. Shawn: This isn't in my area, but I know there are some list subscribers up there. I've CC'd this message to the list so all 800 of them will get it. Hopefully there's someone close who might be interested. Thanks for letting us know! List: Someone grab these drives; don't let them fall victim to the scrapper! -- Jeffrey Sharp From paul.shubel at verizon.net Sun Feb 9 22:35:52 2003 From: paul.shubel at verizon.net (vze4nsdg@verizon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #360 - 29 msgs References: <20030208180001.8138.34142.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000601c2d0b2$82f2c6e0$0900a8c0@Aptiva> > I'm either being imprecise or various readings I have done were >imprecise. The reference to "one cycle" instruction may have been referring >to there being 2 cpu cycles per clock cycle. Also, there's the "pipelining" >some say the 6502 does when the last (or only) byte of an instruction is >acted upon simultaneous to next instruction's 1st byte (opcode) being >fetched Hi Everyone, I have recently researched this but it is not true. The so called "pipelining" was just that internally when the CPU does an ADD instructions it does some sub-operations currently. This was hyped in some texts by using (wrongly) the word "pipelining". Normally, "pipelining" for micros refers to overlaping the fetch of one instruction with the "execute phase" of the previous instruction. The 6502 does none of this. Note, the Z8 actually does some limited pipelining. This put it ahead in bragging rights amongs the 8-bitters. Cheers, Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 1:00 PM Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #360 - 29 msgs > Send cctech mailing list submissions to > cctech@classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctech-request@classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ (Sellam Ismail) > 2. Re: Unassembled Superboard II (Sellam Ismail) > 3. Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ (Sellam Ismail) > 4. Kaypro II available. (Alan Emmerson) > 5. Re: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel (Eric Dittman) > 6. Re: interesting find (Tony Duell) > 7. Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable (Tony Duell) > 8. Re: Rookie HP-85 problem (Tony Duell) > 9. Re: Old Computer Companies (John Honniball) > 10. Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ (Mike Ford) > 11. RE: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel (John Willis) > 12. Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 13. RE: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives (Kelly Leavitt) > 14. RE: Disk drive head locking (DEC RA-82 and HP 7920) (John Willis) > 15. RE: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives (John Willis) > 16. Re: Rookie HP-85 problem (Joe) > 17. Re: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is > collecting/storing them? (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) > 18. Re: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is > collecting/storing them? (John Allain) > 19. Re: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives (Jerome H. Fine) > 20. Re: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is > collecting/storing them? (R. D. Davis) > 21. RE: Atari ST Help (Lawrence Walker) > 22. TTY ASR-33 Platen? (George R. Gonzalez) > 23. Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ (Jim Keohane) > 24. Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ (Jim Keohane) > 25. Re: Grundy Newbrain fix (lgomez) > 26. OT Need parts (James Rice) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:27:17 -0800 (PST) > From: Sellam Ismail > To: > Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > I used BigMac for all my projects, including the doomed SSC > > ROM... (*1) > > > > > > Gruss > > H. > > (*1) I don't know if I already told the story > > I told you I would optimize your code for you :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:34:32 -0800 (PST) > From: Sellam Ismail > To: > Subject: Re: Unassembled Superboard II > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Someone sent me an unassembled Ohio Scientific Superboard II kit in its > > > original box the other day. > > > > Oh! You lucky son-of-a-gun! What REV? > > The solder mask on the board says "Ohio Scientific Model 600 CPU" and "REV > D". > > The manual is copyright 1982 and the original invoice is dated August 4, > 1982. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:40:34 -0800 (PST) > From: Sellam Ismail > To: > Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > p.s. I also did quite well with 6502 asm code in cpu speed tests vs > > 80x86 and Z80 programmers. The zero page, for all intents and purposes, > > is 256 registers. 6502 is single cycle instruction execution. Look up > > definitions of RISC and the 6502 is arguably RISC-like. > > No 6502 instruction takes less than 2 cycles to complete. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > From: "Alan Emmerson" > To: > Subject: Kaypro II available. > Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 09:44:55 +1000 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I have two Kaypro II that I have owned from new. Both are upgraded to run > at higher clock speeds and one has a cooling fan fitted. One has the PC8 > ROM There is a complete set of the bundled distribution software (Select, > Perfect Writer etc) with manuals, including that really first class ground > breaking program SBasic, and other programs that I wrote in SBasic > including multi variable non linear regression analysis. Also Unidos and > etc which allows the floppy drives to emulate those of other machines. > > > I used one of these machines to run the first simulation of the CSIRO > Sydney to Melbourne high speed railway. > > What price might one expect for such a a machine?. > > Alan Emmerson > Brisbane QLD > Australia > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: Eric Dittman > Subject: Re: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:46:03 -0600 (CST) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Wanted: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel > > Where are you located? > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: interesting find > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:42:32 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > And when nobody cared about the size, weight and power consumption > > of computers... ;-) > > > > > The HP 9100A/B calculators use a similar architecture, using > > > wire bobbins instead of rods, for a microsequence store. > > The HP9100B was entirely discrete transistors [1], with normal R/W core > memory, the core-on-a-rope microcde store and inductively coupled PCB > tracks for the main program ROM. > > The HP9810 which replaced it was built from TTL chips, with 256 nybble > PROMs for the microocde store (and the ALU, which was a couple of > programmed PROMs), 512 byte ROMs for the main program store, and 256 bit > DRAMs (1103s) for the R/W memory. > > Admittedly the 9810 had space for an internal thermal printer, and it had > more user memory. But in the basic configuration it did less ('Math' > functions, like SIN, COS, TAN were on a plug-in ROM module on the 9810, > and bulit-in on the 9100). But the 9810 (the machine built with ICs) is > larger than the 9100. > > [1] OK, there are 8 IC op-amps in the 9100B on the card reader PCB (read > amplifier and comparator for the 3 data tracks and the clock track). But > the machine will run without the card reader ;-) > > -tony > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:21:19 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > On Feb 6, 22:33, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > I don't see how you can do a proper test without a visual inspection > > of > > > the connections... And I've yet to see a moulded connector that > > provides > > > a proper strain-relief for the cable. > > > > A good PAT tester will check at a sensible current (though admittedly a > > lot only check earth continuity at a proper current). As for strain > > I've never met a PAT tester that tests the current-carrying conductors at > a significant current, mainly because there's no easy way to do this > without dismantling the unit under test (if the cable is fixed) -- the > maximum current you could pass would be the normal operating current of > the unit (by simply applying mains to it), which is not enough. Even then > you couldn't measure the voltage drop across one of the conductors. > > You may have guessed that I don't trust PAT testers, and I have no faith > at all in the safety standards as usually applied. Proper safety tests on > the other hand... > > > releif, well you're not supposed to swing the equipment by the power > > cable, Tony! > > True, but equally I don't expect the outer covering of the cable to pull > out of the moulded connector in normal use exposing the single-insulated > wires inside. Which has happened to many moulded cables round here. > > I assume you'd fail a rewirable plug with the cord grip missing/not used > on an electrical safety test. I certainly would. But most moulded cables > are not a lot better than that. > > > > The cable mounted section looks like a normal 'cold condition' > > _socket_, > > > but there are 3 round pins sticking out of the face of it (where the > > > socket holes would be). The chassis part looks like the normal plug > > > (recessed into the panel, etc) with 3 holes in it in place of the > > normal > > > plug pins. > > > > I've a feeling I've seen this used somewhere -- but not recently, and I > > can't think where :-( > > I've thought of another place I've seen them used. Leitz Focomat 1 > enlarger, at the top of the column. Connector for the lampholder assembly. > > -tony > > --__--__-- > > Message: 8 > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: Rookie HP-85 problem > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:41:27 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > OK, I took it apart to take alook inside and clean it up. Now I can't get > > the damn cover back on. > > It seems to get caught on the tape eject button. Don't want to break the > > cover forcing it. > > > > Are you supposed to separate the monitor/tape brown faceplate from the rest > > of the cover first? > > No, pull off the eject button (you should do this before removing the > cover). Then the cover fits easily. Put the button back on when the cover > is screwed in place. > > -tony > > --__--__-- > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 00:08:16 +0000 > From: John Honniball > Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Old Computer Companies > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Hans B Pufal wrote: > >> Eliott computers from UK. What happened to them? I mean Eliott, not N...a > > There are a few Elliot 803s preserved in Britain. One at Bletchley > Park, another at the Science Museum, and probably others. They have > an interesting power supply: the incoming mains is used to charge > a *big* Ni-Cd battery, which powers the computer. The same battery > is used in the Nimrod aircraft, and the RAF have kindly supplied > spares for the 803s. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > --__--__-- > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 16:03:12 -0800 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Mike Ford > Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > > Get a copy of BigMac, and go ahead. it's a nice all in one > > > environment, and works fine on every Apple. > > > >Oh Yeah! BigMac (or as we used to call it at Software Productions, > >"BigHack"). > > > My favorite was always LISA, Laser Interactive Symbolic Assembler, a > complete editor/asm/runtime kind of setup. > > I need to look around and figure what the status is of the program, but I > have most of the versions of it that ever existed. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 11 > Subject: RE: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 18:02:00 -0700 > From: "John Willis" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > New Mexico, USA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Dittman > Sent: Fri 2/7/2003 4:46 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: > Subject: Re: WANTED: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel > > > Wanted: RA7x Enclosure/Operator Ctrl. Panel > > Where are you located? > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] > > --__--__-- > > Message: 12 > Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 01:24:44 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Feb 7, 23:21, Tony Duell wrote: > > > On Feb 6, 22:33, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > I don't see how you can do a proper test without a visual > inspection > > > of > > > > the connections... And I've yet to see a moulded connector that > > > provides > > > > a proper strain-relief for the cable. > > > > > > A good PAT tester will check at a sensible current (though > admittedly a > > > lot only check earth continuity at a proper current). As for > strain > > > > I've never met a PAT tester that tests the current-carrying > conductors at > > a significant current, mainly because there's no easy way to do this > > without dismantling the unit under test (if the cable is fixed) -- > the > > maximum current you could pass would be the normal operating current > of > > the unit (by simply applying mains to it), which is not enough. Even > then > > you couldn't measure the voltage drop across one of the conductors. > > A proper PAT tester to current standards has a socket for each end of > an IEC cable, and each cable is supposed to be individually tested with > both ends plugged in to the tester. > > > > releif, well you're not supposed to swing the equipment by the > power > > > cable, Tony! > > > > True, but equally I don't expect the outer covering of the cable to > pull > > out of the moulded connector in normal use exposing the > single-insulated > > wires inside. Which has happened to many moulded cables round here. > > I've only seen one do that -- and it was an instant candidate for the > wirecutters at both ends. A proper visual inspection is supposed to be > the first part of the PAT. > > > I assume you'd fail a rewirable plug with the cord grip missing/not > used > > on an electrical safety test. I certainly would. > > Yes. The first thing I do with any multiblock is take it apart to see > how the ends are wired -- the cheap ones are usually in a condition > where I feel compelled to re-do the job. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > --__--__-- > > Message: 13 > From: Kelly Leavitt > To: "'cctalk@classiccmp.org '" > Subject: RE: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:12:08 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Yes, the OS allows entering of drive geometry. Actually only supports MFM up > to 70Meg. RLL drives will of course work, just not to RLL capacity. I'm > looking for the largest drives I can find. > > From: Ethan Dicks > --- Kelly Leavitt wrote: > > Any good sources of MFM or RLL drives. This would be for a Tandy 6000 > > running Xenix. > > > > I'm looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity). > > Hmm... those aren't so common (in the DEC world, there are two > choices - the RD53 (Miniscribe 1325) and the RD54 (Maxtor XT2190). > > I take it you aren't constrained by a narrow set of expected > geometries? (i.e. - you have a running system and/or the install > procedure asks you about the drive rather than assuming?) > > -ethan > > --__--__-- > > Message: 14 > Subject: RE: Disk drive head locking (DEC RA-82 and HP 7920) > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 18:37:25 -0700 > From: "John Willis" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I seem to have only up to RA81, but everything else :( > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Veeneman > Sent: Fri 2/7/2003 3:04 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Cc: > Subject: Disk drive head locking (DEC RA-82 and HP 7920) > > Hello, > > I'm scheduled to pick up a pair of DEC RA-82 drives along > with an HP 7920 drive in the next couple of weeks. > > I don't have any technical documentation for either of these > drives, but I'd be very interested in learning the proper > procedure for locking down the heads on these drives > prior to moving them. If anyone has the steps to take > for either or both of these drives, please drop me a note > or point me to the proper archive. > > They've already been warehoused, so it might be too late, > but I'd like to be as safe as I can. > > Thanks! > > > Cheers, > > Dan > www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] > > --__--__-- > > Message: 15 > Subject: RE: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 18:43:20 -0700 > From: "John Willis" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I have an RD54 available... no idea whether its working. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kelly Leavitt > Sent: Fri 2/7/2003 6:12 PM > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org ' > Cc: > Subject: RE: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives > > Yes, the OS allows entering of drive geometry. Actually only supports > MFM up > to 70Meg. RLL drives will of course work, just not to RLL capacity. I'm > looking for the largest drives I can find. > > From: Ethan Dicks > --- Kelly Leavitt wrote: > > Any good sources of MFM or RLL drives. This would be for a Tandy 6000 > > running Xenix. > > > > I'm looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity). > > Hmm... those aren't so common (in the DEC world, there are two > choices - the RD53 (Miniscribe 1325) and the RD54 (Maxtor XT2190). > > I take it you aren't constrained by a narrow set of expected > geometries? (i.e. - you have a running system and/or the install > procedure asks you about the drive rather than assuming?) > > -ethan > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] > > --__--__-- > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 21:27:05 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Joe > Subject: Re: Rookie HP-85 problem > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Pull on the tape eject button. It's mounted on a stud and will pull right off. Just push it back on to re-install it. > > Joe > > At 01:11 PM 2/7/03 -0500, you wrote: > >OK, I took it apart to take alook inside and clean it up. Now I can't get > >the damn cover back on. > >It seems to get caught on the tape eject button. Don't want to break the > >cover forcing it. > > > >Are you supposed to separate the monitor/tape brown faceplate from the rest > >of the cover first? > > > >HELP > > > >RH > > --__--__-- > > Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:13:09 -0800 (PST) > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is > collecting/storing them? > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Hewlett-Packard is hoping a little green will help make computer owners > > recycle more of their old tech gear. The computer maker is testing a > > no, they are hoping that a little green will help make computer owners get > rid of their "old" tech gear and buy more new stuff. > > > > meets the charities' minimum standards. "For the most part what we get in > > here is pretty darn old," St. Denis said. HP's recycling program accepts > > . . . some of it is as much as two years old!!!! > > > A while back, HP began to "recycle" toner cartridges for the purpose of > making fewer empties available for refilling (which competes with their > new cartridge sales). > > > What do YOU think their primary motivation is?? > > > "Re: Old computers from HP, maybe?" > ^^^^ > It is a ONE-WAY process, of old computers going TO HP to remove them from > circulation. > > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > --__--__-- > > Message: 18 > From: "John Allain" > To: > Subject: Re: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is > collecting/storing them? > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:28:25 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > A while back, HP began to "recycle" toner cartridges for the > > purpose of making fewer empties available for refilling (which > > competes with their new cartridge sales). > > New cartridge sales?? I bought one of their "New" cartridges. > Here's what the small print says: > "This newly manufactured product may contain parts and > materials recovered from the HP Printing Supplies Return > and Recycling Program." > > > What do YOU think their primary motivation is?? > > Selling refills themselves, But just Calling them new. > > John A. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 23:59:51 -0500 > From: "Jerome H. Fine" > Organization: Just Sufficient > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Looking for source of MFM or RLL drives > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > >Kelly Leavitt wrote: > > > > I'm looking for 70 Meg or higher MFM (110 RLL capacity). > > Hmm... those aren't so common (in the DEC world, there are two > > choices - the RD53 (Miniscribe 1325) and the RD54 (Maxtor XT2190). > > Jerome Fine replies: > > By the way, the RD53 is a Micropolis 1325 or 1335 with the > R7 jumper added to the logic board. Otherwise, the DEC > RQDX2 will not recognize the drive. I have never tried them > on the RQDX3 without the R7 jumper, but it might be possible - > probably NOT. > > And while there may still be rare occasions when you can actually > complete the FORMAT required for an RD53, I would recommend > that they be used ONLY for scratch at this point at the end of their > life cycle. I suppose that there might still be the odd RD53 that is > still living a good life, but most (almost all) have become so unreliable > that I strongly recommend NOT using them for any files you care to > see the next time you turn the computer on. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 20 > Date: 8 Feb 2003 00:57:58 -0500 > Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 00:57:58 -0500 > From: "R. D. Davis" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Old computers from HP, maybe? Anybody know where HP is > collecting/storing them? > Organization: why? > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Quothe Fred Cisin (XenoSoft), from writings of Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 08:13:09PM -0800: > > > Hewlett-Packard is hoping a little green will help make computer owners > > > recycle more of their old tech gear. The computer maker is testing a > > > > no, they are hoping that a little green will help make computer owners get > > rid of their "old" tech gear and buy more new stuff. > > Wasn't HP the company that was saving and preserving the "vintage" > computer equipment turned back in to them? I think I read something > about this on their web site, or somewhere, about a year or two ago. > That's not to say they weren't scrapping newer equipment, however, and > I don't recall reading how old the equipment had to be to qualify for > preservation. > > > What do YOU think their primary motivation is?? > > > > > > "Re: Old computers from HP, maybe?" > > ^^^^ > > It is a ONE-WAY process, of old computers going TO HP to remove them from > > circulation. > > Yep... even the vintage ones if they still save them from being > scrapped; surely they still get sent off to a warehouse somewhere to > keep them out of circulation. Speaking of circulation, an HP-3000 > Series III computer running MPE-IV was used to process data for the > circulation department of the Baltimore Sun back around 1990... it was > quite a contrast to see that, and it's disk farm, right across the > room from a sea of big blue cabinets for an IBM mainframe system. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 21 > From: "Lawrence Walker" > To: "Jeffrey S. Worley" , cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:27:36 -0600 > Subject: RE: Atari ST Help > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Hmmm how did my address get into this ? > As the old flame went "check your attributes" > and in this case your deletions. > > Lawrence > > On 7 Feb 2003, , Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > > > BTW, the Link II's they are selling are NEW. Call and ask or > > leave an email. I just checked their catalog. The link I > > bough was from them IIRC. It came in it's original packaging > > and was perfect in all respects. Still is perfect though now > > used... ;-) > > > > Regards, > > > > Jeff > > > > > Yes, I know about that site, but they want WAY too > > > much money for a used adapter for an old computer. > > > > > > You would think that at this point, they'd be... > > > > > > > > lgwalker@ mts.net > > > lgwalker@ mts.net > > --__--__-- > > Message: 22 > From: "George R. Gonzalez" > To: > Subject: TTY ASR-33 Platen? > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 07:59:24 -0800 > Organization: Hearing Research Lab > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I have been blessed with *two* Teletype ASR-33's. Apart from a minor > cleaning, they are going to be just fine. EXCEPT the rubber platens are as > hard as Chinese arithmetic! In case you havent experienced this, if the > platen gets hard, the printer doesnt print well-- the typehead kinda bounces > off the paper and doesnt leave a clean dark mark. > > I've tried the usual remedies-- acetone cleans them up, but they're still > rock hard. > > I need some suggestions! Should I try ArmorAll (known to soften rubber, > given time), "Platen cleaner", "belt dressing", "french dressing", or what? > > Note that I don't need to clean or make it "grippier", it needs to be > softened, a lot. > > Regards, > > > George > > --__--__-- > > Message: 23 > From: "Jim Keohane" > To: > Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:06:13 -0500 > Organization: Multi-Platforms, Inc. > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Sellam Ismail, > > I'm either being imprecise or various readings I have done were > imprecise. The reference to "one cycle" instruction may have been referring > to there being 2 cpu cycles per clock cycle. Also, there's the "pipelining" > some say the 6502 does when the last (or only) byte of an instruction is > acted upon simultaneous to next instruction's 1st byte (opcode) being > fetched > > So perhaps "one instruction per clock cycle" may be awfully close with > pipelining and with use of zero page. > > Of course, we're talking Apple ]['s which, if I can trust my memory, > steal every other clock cycle to refresh memory. > > Cheers, - Jim > > Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. > > "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 18:40 > Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > > > > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > > > p.s. I also did quite well with 6502 asm code in cpu speed tests vs > > > 80x86 and Z80 programmers. The zero page, for all intents and purposes, > > > is 256 registers. 6502 is single cycle instruction execution. Look up > > > definitions of RISC and the 6502 is arguably RISC-like. > > > > No 6502 instruction takes less than 2 cycles to complete. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > --__--__-- > > Message: 24 > From: "Jim Keohane" > To: > Subject: Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:13:14 -0500 > Organization: Multi-Platforms, Inc. > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Not sure if this was mentioned as another option: > > There's the MERLIN assembler. Versions for ProDos and DOS 3.3. > > - Jim > > Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. > > "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Hudson" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 00:19 > Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ > > > > What do I need to get started with 6502 Assembly on an apple II? > > --__--__-- > > Message: 25 > From: "lgomez" > Subject: Re: Grundy Newbrain fix > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 17:31:42 +0100 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Please, can you say me how can i solve this problem? I've a > Newbrain AD with the same problem. > > Regards > > On Fri, 07 Feb 2003 17:43:50 +0100 > Torben Ring wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have a Grundy Newbrain, which wouldn't start, or if it > > started it would only show random chars in the display. > > I've found out what was wrong with the machine and if > > anyone needs help with fixing his (or hers) machine, I'll > > be able to point to the problem. As far as I can tell, > > this is a common problem with all these machines, and it > > only gets worse as time goes by. > > > > Regards, > > > > Torben Ring > > --__--__-- > > Message: 26 > Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 11:28:06 -0600 > From: James Rice > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: OT Need parts > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I need one of the beige plastic headed screws that secure the side cover > on a Dell Dimension case. The is for my UMAX S900 that shares a > PaloAlto Design case with the earlier Dell Dimensions. I also need two > blank drive filler panels for a HP NetServer LC II. > > James > -- > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html > > > > End of cctech Digest From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sun Feb 9 23:12:00 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Main-frame hard drive (maybe) avaliable In-Reply-To: <17038531505.20030209222818@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Earlier, I wrote: > > > Several years ago I got ahold of a monsterous main-frame type hard > > > drive. > Here is the reply I got: > > Are you asking where I live? I'm in North Dakota. If you're asking where > > Where do you live? I will be coming south in a month or two for the > > mission trip. I will be driving from ND to TN. I might be able to bring it > Shawn: This isn't in my area, but I know there are some list subscribers up > there. I've CC'd this message to the list so all 800 of them will get it. > Hopefully there's someone close who might be interested. Thanks for letting > us know! > List: Someone grab these drives; don't let them fall victim to the scrapper! Thats quite a trip (ND->TN), could take a multitude of different routes. I live in Iowa... If the chap is running near us, I'd be willing to save them with the rest of the museum pieces. Likely not, but I figure I should mention. JP From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 9 23:42:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #360 - 29 msgs In-Reply-To: <000601c2d0b2$82f2c6e0$0900a8c0@Aptiva> References: <20030208180001.8138.34142.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <000601c2d0b2$82f2c6e0$0900a8c0@Aptiva> Message-ID: <33611.64.169.63.74.1044855608.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "vze4nsdg@verizon.net" wrote: > Normally, "pipelining" for micros refers to overlaping the fetch of one > instruction with the "execute phase" of the previous instruction. The > 6502 does none of this. The 6502 most certainly *does* do this on many instructions, most notably the arithmetic and logical instructions. > Note, the Z8 actually does some limited pipelining. Not any more than the 6502 does. > This put it ahead in bragging > rights amongs the 8-bitters. Not really, since it came about two years later than the 6501 and 6502. Everyone *PLEASE* edit your quotes, and don't include an entire digest in your replies! From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Feb 10 00:19:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? Message-ID: Looks like an interesting item for a total of $11 including shipping. But does that include the keyboard? Neither this listing nor the last one I saw on eBay showed a picture of a keyboard nor explicitly stated that a keyboard was included as far as I could see. Do these ELT320 terminals use a standard interface keyboard that is easy to replace if you get one without a keyboard? >From: Ethan Dicks >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? >Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 18:15:23 -0800 (PST) > >Second time around, I won an ELT-320 on ePay... _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From GOOI at oce.nl Mon Feb 10 01:39:01 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Disk drive head locking (DEC RA-82 and HP 7920) Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBADB@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Hi Dan. AFAI can tell from memory, you do the following. 1) find the opening in the front that is a little larger than the other openings (for cooling). 2) Use a screwdriver to push the plate that is behind the opening mentioned in 1). 3) While that plate is pushed in, you can lift the top cover including the electronics of the RA82. 4) In the middle yoy see the large (black) cilinder thing. That is the HDA. When you stand in front of the drive you see a small lever at "6 o clock". Rotate that level 180 degrees to lock the heads. You must lift the level at the end a little to be able to rotate it. On the HDA is a text that tells you the position of the level. (At least, that is the case with my *RA81*. 5) At the right hand side, near the chassis plate of the drive is a handle. This handle releases/sets the drive belt free/tension to the HDA. I do not know if the tension should be released when you transport the drive. If you are not going to use the drive for say, several months, you could release the tension to prevent deforming (flatten) the drive belt at one location. Take care, RA82's are heavy, - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Veeneman [mailto:dan@ekoan.com] > Sent: vrijdag 7 februari 2003 23:04 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Disk drive head locking (DEC RA-82 and HP 7920) > > Hello, > > I'm scheduled to pick up a pair of DEC RA-82 drives along > with an HP 7920 drive in the next couple of weeks. > > I don't have any technical documentation for either of these > drives, but I'd be very interested in learning the proper > procedure for locking down the heads on these drives > prior to moving them. If anyone has the steps to take > for either or both of these drives, please drop me a note > or point me to the proper archive. > Cheers, > > Dan > www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Feb 10 02:32:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Seeking info on two PROM chips. In-Reply-To: Brian Chase "Seeking info on two PROM chips." (Feb 9, 19:24) References: Message-ID: <10302100830.ZM19338@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 9, 19:24, Brian Chase wrote: > Does anyone have details on the following ROM or PROM chips from a > DEC VAXstation 4000 VLC? Their identifying numbers are LUP9327580 > (DEC part# 23-286E8-00) and LUP9331604 (DEC part# 23-287E8-00); > they're each 40-pin DIPs. The U's may actually be O's or 0's; it's > difficult to tell given the DEC part number label placement. 23-xxxEx is a ROM/EPROM part number, so they may well be programmable. E8 means they're 128KB, or 1 Megabit. The part numbers you quote are listed in Compaq Assisted Services online catalogue at $4 apiece, so you might still be able to get them from DEC/HP. Is there any type number under the DEC label? Are they brown ceramic with a quartz window in the top? If so, they're probably EPROMs, most likely 27C1024 (64K x 16 bit). If not, they're probably one-time PROMs, or possibly Flash. If they're EPROMs, it's unlikely you overwrote them, unless you had them in a programmer. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 10 03:49:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: PS2 Mouse Message-ID: <20030210094703.56821.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> Tony, > While this is true on the genuine PS/2 machines (and the mouse protocol > is very similar to a PC/AT or PS/2 keyboard protocol), there's no reason > why it _has_ to be. It would be possible to make an ISA card with a > programmed microcontroller on it (maybe an 8042, like the keyboard > controller) with the host port at some otherwise unused I/O address, and > then use a special driver (similar in concept to the serial and bus mouse > drivers) to access it. well, I suppose if you're going to go the microcontroller route you may as well make it an external unit with the serial controller included... no messing around with custom drivers on the host system then. Bit beyond me though I'm afraid, but as the original poster said I'm surprised nobody's done it, especially a hobbyist... I suppose it'd need its own power supply though which is a shame. cheers Jules Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From dweebgeek at yahoo.com Mon Feb 10 05:54:00 2003 From: dweebgeek at yahoo.com (Fahiem Wagiet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP dweebgeek@yahoo.com Message-ID: <20030210115151.36324.qmail@web41415.mail.yahoo.com> __________________________________________________ X-Apparently-To: dweebgeek@yahoo.com via 66.218.93.72; 02 Feb 2003 15:05:09 -0800 (PST) X-Track: 2: 100 Return-Path: Received: from 209.145.140.36 (EHLO huey.classiccmp.org) (209.145.140.36) by mta584.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 02 Feb 2003 15:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h12N53m31131; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:05:03 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h12N47931111 for cctalk-post; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:04:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cctalk-admin) X-Authentication-Warning: huey.classiccmp.org: mailnull set sender to cctalk-admin using -f Received: from smtp13.eresmas.com ([62.81.235.113]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h12N46m31107 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:04:06 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from vsimon@eresmas.com) Received: from [192.168.108.108] (helo=smtp08.in.mad.eresmas.com) by smtp13.eresmas.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18fT7k-0005Lq-00 for cctech@classiccmp.org; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 00:02:04 +0100 Received: from [80.224.147.249] (helo=VNOMIS.eresmas.com) by smtp08.in.mad.eresmas.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18fT7j-0008TF-00 for cctech@classiccmp.org; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 00:02:04 +0100 X-Sender: vsimon@pop.eresmas.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: cctech@classiccmp.org From: Vicente =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sim=F3n?= Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP vsimon@eresmas.com In-Reply-To: <019301c2cb0f$27299620$0101c80a@p2350> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 31/01/2003), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org Errors-To: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 00:02:33 +0100 Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 00:02:33 +0100 Content-Length: 41 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Feb 10 07:09:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: CDs and the rights thereto In-Reply-To: References: <20030118034120.66072.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030209231914.00a83ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >Ok, here's a scenario. What if I find a small stack of original audio >CDs? They were up for grabs in a "FREE" box at the ACCRC. I took them. >Since I didn't pay for them, should I not have them? I once bid on a pile of junk in the corner of an auction, and turned out under a layer of misc there was a full pallet of cases of spindles of CDs for some current commercial software. About 20,000 CDs, no jewel boxes, but many boxes of the paper inserts, just I am sure no legal right to sell or distribute them. Sure looked pretty in the 40' roll off dumpster we tossed them all in. Its not unusual in the auction arena to find manufactured goods that carry no rights with them, production overruns, defects, contract problems, and number one maybe is the manufacturer goes belly up and everything in the plant is sold off including production inventory. BTW yeah yeah, maybe I would do differently now, but at the time I had no space for the stuff I did take and thought was better. It was 5 days of little sleep, and lots and lots of loading and sorting. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 10 07:26:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030210132352.41104.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Glen S wrote: > Looks like an interesting item for a total of $11 including shipping. > But does that include the keyboard? I doubt it. > Neither this listing nor the last one I saw on eBay showed a picture of a > keyboard nor explicitly stated that a keyboard was included as far as I > could see. My observation as well. > Do these ELT320 terminals use a standard interface keyboard that is easy > to replace if you get one without a keyboard? Yes. According to http://www.pds.planar.com/prod_ctr/elt.pdf it's a DEC LK401-compatible. That's my next challenge. OTOH, as long as I'm not using this with any software that requires a DEC numeric keypad, I _think_ I can get away with a different keyboard (not sure about entering setup mode with something else). I'd rather have had the one that sold previously, with power brick and manual, but this was only the third one to come up in recent weeks, so I jumped all over it. Not complaining about the price. :-) -ethan From thompson at new.rr.com Mon Feb 10 08:06:01 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Seeking info on two PROM chips. In-Reply-To: <10302100830.ZM19338@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > E8 means they're 128KB, or 1 Megabit. The part numbers you quote are > listed in Compaq Assisted Services online catalogue at $4 apiece, so > you might still be able to get them from DEC/HP. I am not sure I have the URL for this, unless it is something I know by another name.... From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Feb 10 08:53:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... Message-ID: Just get an HP 200LX palmtop. It's basically a PC-XT (MS-DOS 5.0, custom 80186 processor) with a monochrome CGA screen (640x200). It can run most standard MS-DOS programs, has built-in terminal emulation, serial and IR ports, a PCMCIA socket that can handle standard of Compact Flash RAM (cards bigger than 256MB might require a driver, depending on brand). You can get upgraded models with up to 96MB internal RAM and a 2x crystal (~32MHz). Runs on 2 AA batteries for days, and can use rechargable batteries (with internal charging). Has instant-on and sleep. There is ethernet and TCP/IP software for it, as well as web and email software. Lastly, you can hook it up to a cell phone to get your email. Only problem is, it's not quite 10 years old :). -----Original Message----- From: John Boffemmyer IV [mailto:john_boffemmyer_iv@boff-net.dhs.org] Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 7:44 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Odd ideas that I've had lately... Say, I go over to Sridhar's house and decide I want to grab the docs on an old DECServer, most palms don't have the storage space or interface unless you go find a program written for the machine you are on and have an IR port or happen to have a Palm cradle for that model (nowadays one cradle does NOT fit all). A mini-PC portable, like the idea I had, would have standard built-in interfaces that would allow for this, plus the needed storage space. Like simple FTP'ing the data over a standard tcp/ip protocol on the built-in Ethernet or such, this would make portable data sharing easier. From dittman at dittman.net Mon Feb 10 09:15:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? In-Reply-To: from "Glen S" at Feb 09, 2003 10:16:25 PM Message-ID: <200302101511.h1AFBmc4015374@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Looks like an interesting item for a total of $11 including shipping. But > does that include the keyboard? Neither this listing nor the last one I saw > on eBay showed a picture of a keyboard nor explicitly stated that a keyboard > was included as far as I could see. Do these ELT320 terminals use a > standard interface keyboard that is easy to replace if you get one without a > keyboard? The ELT320 can use either an AT-type keyboard or an LK201-type keyboard (I have an LK401 connected to mine). I've got time this week to check out the power supply if you haven't had someone else to send it to you, Ethan. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Feb 10 09:15:25 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Odd ideas that I've had lately... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c2d116$e374bf00$020010ac@k4jcw> And you can put a super-sexy aftermarket backlight in! http://www.daniel-hertrich.de/backlight/ --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Feldman, Robert > Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 09:51 > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Odd ideas that I've had lately... > > > Just get an HP 200LX palmtop. It's basically a PC-XT (MS-DOS > 5.0, custom > 80186 processor) with a monochrome CGA screen (640x200). It > can run most > standard MS-DOS programs, has built-in terminal emulation, > serial and IR > ports, a PCMCIA socket that can handle standard of Compact > Flash RAM (cards > bigger than 256MB might require a driver, depending on > brand). You can get > upgraded models with up to 96MB internal RAM and a 2x crystal > (~32MHz). Runs > on 2 AA batteries for days, and can use rechargable batteries > (with internal > charging). Has instant-on and sleep. There is ethernet and > TCP/IP software > for it, as well as web and email software. Lastly, you can > hook it up to a > cell phone to get your email. Only problem is, it's not quite > 10 years old > :). > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Boffemmyer IV [mailto:john_boffemmyer_iv@boff-net.dhs.org] > Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 7:44 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Odd ideas that I've had lately... > > > Say, I go over to Sridhar's house > and decide I want to grab the docs on an old DECServer, most > palms don't > have the storage space or interface unless you go find a > program written > for the machine you are on and have an IR port or happen to > have a Palm > cradle for that model (nowadays one cradle does NOT fit all). > A mini-PC > portable, like the idea I had, would have standard built-in > interfaces that > would allow for this, plus the needed storage space. Like > simple FTP'ing > the data over a standard tcp/ip protocol on the built-in > Ethernet or such, > this would make portable data sharing easier. > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 10 09:25:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? In-Reply-To: <200302101511.h1AFBmc4015374@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20030210152130.84639.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > The ELT320 can use either an AT-type keyboard or an LK201-type > keyboard (I have an LK401 connected to mine). Cool! I was hoping that was the case - I have a Happy Hacking Keyboard ( http://shop.store.yahoo.com/pfuca-store/ ) that I was going to throw in a laptop case with the ELT-320 for on-the-road use (like at the server room). Still need to score a real LK401, but I can steal an LK201 from a VT220 for the short term. > I've got time this week to check out the power supply if you > haven't had someone else to send it to you, Ethan. One offer to look, but nothing has been sent to me yet. I'm hoping to get a PSU cobbled up by the time mine arrives. :-) Thanks, -ethan From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 10 09:33:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request Message-ID: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I wasn't going to dig into my 11/44 system until I finished the 2000/Access system, but due to circumstances beyond my control I had to dig into it already. I have some really simple basic questions perhaps others can point me in the right direction. First: It would appear the first 8 or so cards are required to be in certain slots. Cpu set basically. If I don't have FPP or CIS stuff, those slots get left blank? Do any grant or jumper type cards need to be there if FPP and CIS cards aren't present? Do you need to change jumpers/switches on the other cards that make up the cpu if there is no FPP or CIS? After the cpu set comes memory. I know these need to be set for what area of memory the card is for. But according to the cover on the lid, there is about 4 slots for memory. Then there is a jumper card that joins the two backplans, 9300 or 9200 I think. I have an 8 port mux card. I assume it can't go in the memory slots. So do the empty memory slots (don't have enough memory cards to fill all 4 slots) neet any kind of grant card? If I recall correctly, after the memory is the jumper card that joins the two backplanes... the 8 port mux could go next? And then next I'll put in a RL01/02 controller. Then there is a buss termination card...I assume that goes right after the RL01/02, are there any other jumper/termination/grant cards that need to be in place? Also, from what I recall of the Qbus stuff I have, the various peripheral cards need to be set for where they appear in memory, the address of the card, correct? So.. need to find docs on the 8 port mux and the RL01/02 controller. Second: Looking at the TU-58 drive, the rubber rollers in each drive appear to be highly questionable - pretty gummy. What's the best way to fix those rubber rollers? I was thinking of cleaning off the rubber, and maybe getting a vacuum cleaner belt and building a new surface by cutting it to size and wrapping it around the metal cylinder. Just how touchy is the parameter for the diameter of that wheel if I'm off, making it slightly thinner or thicker? Is there a better way? Third: I'm looking for just the top cover of the lowboy rack the 11/44 is in, and another rack of the same exact style to put my two RL02's in. Don't know what the rack is called, but it's the standard cream colored lowboy rack that the 11/44 is typically seen in that has an opening in the front door for the dual TU-58 drive. Thanks in advance for any guidance! Jay West From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Feb 10 10:04:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap "protection" Message-ID: <200302101558.KAA07063@wordstock.com> Hey all, Awhile ago there was a thread about electrolytic capacitors popping and then destroying the motherboard they are on. One of the ideas was to replace them before they go. Now I was wondering about another idea... Would it be okay to encase the capacitor in silicone gel? Then when the capacitor pops, it wouldn't spread its electrolyte all over the motherboard. But would this cause other problems with heat or something? Would it further shorten the life of the capacitor? Cheers, Bryan From jrice54 at charter.net Mon Feb 10 10:36:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap "protection" In-Reply-To: <200302101558.KAA07063@wordstock.com> References: <200302101558.KAA07063@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3E47D42D.8080506@charter.net> The caps leaking electrolyte wasn't as much of an issue as the shorting of the caps and causing other problems. At the best it was random reboots, at the worse it was total destruction of the VR section of the motherboard releasing much magic smoke and propelling pieces of the regulators all over the case interior. Not to mention toasting the cpu and memory simms. We never attempt to repair them, just replace them. When a replacemnt motherboard only costs $45-60, the tech time cost is higher than scrap snd replace. James Bryan Pope wrote: > Hey all, > > Awhile ago there was a thread about electrolytic capacitors popping and > then destroying the motherboard they are on. One of the ideas was to > replace them before they go. > > Now I was wondering about another idea... Would it be okay to encase > the capacitor in silicone gel? Then when the capacitor pops, it wouldn't > spread its electrolyte all over the motherboard. > > But would this cause other problems with heat or something? Would it > further shorten the life of the capacitor? > > Cheers, > > Bryan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 10 10:39:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: TU58 roller refurb (was Re: 11/44 basic newbie help request) In-Reply-To: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030210163707.89145.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jay West wrote: > Second: > Looking at the TU-58 drive, the rubber rollers in each drive appear to be > highly questionable - pretty gummy. What's the best way to fix those > rubber rollers? I don't have the pointers or the exact measurements, but this topic comes up on the list from time to time - at the suggestion of many people, Allison Parent first and foremost, I have replaced my gummy tu58 rollers one by one, with a slice of tygon tubing from the hardware store. There is a standard stocked size that seems to work just about perfectly. I have done this for several now, but have yet to get around to dusting off my PDP-11/44 to do _its_ drives, but the mechanisms are all the same. I bought about foot for a buck or two and have been refurbing drives as needed. -ethan From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Feb 10 10:41:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap "protection" In-Reply-To: <3E47D42D.8080506@charter.net> from "James Rice" at Feb 10, 03 10:32:45 am Message-ID: <200302101635.LAA17080@wordstock.com> And thusly James Rice spake: > > We never attempt to repair them, just replace them. When a replacemnt > motherboard only costs $45-60, the tech time cost is higher than scrap > snd replace. I was thinking more of motherboards that aren't being made anymore, like the 128D. Bryan From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Feb 10 10:49:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Seeking info on two PROM chips. In-Reply-To: <10302100830.ZM19338@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > 23-xxxEx is a ROM/EPROM part number, so they may well be programmable. > E8 means they're 128KB, or 1 Megabit. The part numbers you quote are > listed in Compaq Assisted Services online catalogue at $4 apiece, so > you might still be able to get them from DEC/HP. > > Is there any type number under the DEC label? Are they brown ceramic > with a quartz window in the top? If so, they're probably EPROMs, most > likely 27C1024 (64K x 16 bit). If not, they're probably one-time > PROMs, or possibly Flash. If they're EPROMs, it's unlikely you > overwrote them, unless you had them in a programmer. Peeling back the DEC part# labels, it's clear that they're vanilla, UV eraseable, EPROMs. They're both TI 27C210A-12; I guess I don't need to be concerned about having modified them. So, assuming the console ROMs are fine, that means something critical has died in my VAXstation 4000 VLC between the short period of time between powering it down and powering it up again. The diagnostic LEDs on the back of system indicate the following pattern (where the lower part represents lit LEDs as 1 and unlit LEDs as 0): 7654 3210 --------- 1111 1101 At initial power on, all the LEDs are lit "1111 1111", a fraction of a second later it changes to the "1111 1101" pattern and stays there. Using the following page, I get some hints about what may be going wrong , but nothing entirely conclusive as I'm not sure whether the codes for the VS3100 map usefully to those for the VS4000. Some other suggestions that had been made were to check the SIMMs, check the power supply, and to check the RTC chip. Fortunately, I can swap bits between this dead system and another good one that I have. The power supply works, the SIMMs work, and the RTC chip works. I'm getting down to the point of it either being some faulty component or connection on the mainboard, or possibly it /is/ still something with the console EPROMs, though not for the reason I suspected earlier. I should be able to swap the EPROMs a little later on today, and then there's a daughter card which contains a frame buffer, various other I/O ports, and the halt button. Following that, it's down to checking individual (mostly surface mounted) components on the main board. On the bright side, I've a working system which can be used as a reference. Also, the mainboard on the VS4000/VLC is fairly simple-- at least in that it has few components, though they might not be so easy to replace. -brian. From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 10 10:55:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: TU58 roller refurb (was Re: 11/44 basic newbie help request) References: <20030210163707.89145.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <043e01c2d124$9d4703e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Ethan wrote... > I have replaced my gummy > tu58 rollers one by one, with a slice of tygon tubing from the > hardware store. There is a standard stocked size that seems to > work just about perfectly. Cool! All I need to know now is what size tygon tube to buy :) From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 10 11:07:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Question on chip date code Message-ID: I am looking at a chip that is causing me confusing with regards to its actual date code. The chip is labeled thusly: (logo) /718 DM74157N 9322 (logo) looks something like this: /\/ /\/ ...which probably makes it National Semiconductor. My first instinct is to guess that its date code is 9322. However, it does not fit within the context of the rest of the board, which is 1976. They are definitely not original, as the board calls for a 74257 but the 74157 has been put in its place with the addition of a capacitor across +5 and ground. Is it possible that the date code is actually "/718", and what I am seeing as a slash is actually what remains of a '7' that wasn't printed correctly? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrice54 at charter.net Mon Feb 10 11:17:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap "protection" In-Reply-To: <200302101635.LAA17080@wordstock.com> References: <200302101635.LAA17080@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3E47DDEC.4060806@charter.net> Good point. I've also wondered about those in my older Macs, my 128D and my NeXT's. But I seem to think that the older caps are of better quality than those produced today. James Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly James Rice spake: > >>We never attempt to repair them, just replace them. When a replacemnt >>motherboard only costs $45-60, the tech time cost is higher than scrap >>snd replace. > > > I was thinking more of motherboards that aren't being made anymore, like > the 128D. > > Bryan From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Feb 10 11:25:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap "protection" In-Reply-To: <3E47DDEC.4060806@charter.net> from "James Rice" at Feb 10, 03 11:14:20 am Message-ID: <200302101720.MAA27556@wordstock.com> And thusly James Rice spake: > > Good point. I've also wondered about those in my older Macs, my 128D > and my NeXT's. But I seem to think that the older caps are of better > quality than those produced today. > > James Check out this Sunday's Dilbert... :) http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2003020522589.gif Cheers, Bryan From dave at naffnet.org.uk Mon Feb 10 11:33:00 2003 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: Free 19" Monitor - HP A4033A - UK Message-ID: <3E47E1AE.2030500@naffnet.org.uk> I have a 19" HP monitor that is free to anyone who can collect, or arrange collection, from east Berkshire. This is a 3/5 BNC connected beastie (sync-on-green or separate sync) and is the perfect companion to a 700 series workstation. There is some screen-burn , but the monitor is perfectly usable. This monitor is taking up too much space, so it's time to overcome the hoarding instinct and pass it on. Cheers, Dave. From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 10 11:49:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:43 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine In-Reply-To: <006501c2d08a$58570f40$860cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Keys wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2155564921 From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Feb 10 11:51:01 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Question on chip date code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I am looking at a chip that is causing me confusing with regards to its > actual date code. > > The chip is labeled thusly: > > (logo) /718 > DM74157N > 9322 > > (logo) looks something like this: /\/ > /\/ > > ...which probably makes it National Semiconductor. > > My first instinct is to guess that its date code is 9322. However, it > does not fit within the context of the rest of the board, which is 1976. > They are definitely not original, as the board calls for a 74257 but the > 74157 has been put in its place with the addition of a capacitor across +5 > and ground. > > Is it possible that the date code is actually "/718", and what I am seeing > as a slash is actually what remains of a '7' that wasn't printed > correctly? > Probably 7718 date code because 9322 is the old Faichild 9300 serial part number for the 74157... BTW the 157 and 257 are pretty much interchangeble if the enable pin is grounded... > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Peter Wallace From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 10 11:54:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030209203400.4f370e26@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > I think anybody that would pay that kind of money without a LOT more > proof of authenticity is an idiot! A rich idiot perhaps but an idiot > none the less. Hey Joe, you'd better be careful. You never know when one of those "idiots" will show up on classiccmp claiming to represent the entire old computer magazine collecting community and trying to rationalize the price, then bringing your entire character into question for basically calling it like it is. I seem to recall a certain chip collector doing this to me in recent times ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 10 11:58:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine In-Reply-To: <200302100240.VAA123262854@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Megan wrote: > Unfortunately, a positive feedback (say, in the hundreds) also does > not guarantee that you won't get ripped-off. I recently (well, > November of last year), purchased something through ebay from someone > who had about 140+ for their feedback... and very few negatives. > > I sent them the payment for the item ($300+) and although they kept > sending emails about how they were going to get it out to me, with > some extras due to the delay, the person never did ship the item. > His contact information was totally bogus (the mail-to address was > different from what the person had on file with ebay, which I didn't > get until it was too late and I was reporting a problem). The > phone number was no good (again, I didn't have that until there was > a problem). > > Now, the person's account is inactive... > > So, don't assume anything from a feedback profile value... This seems to me to be an actionable breakdown of eBay's user agreement. It is eBay's indirect responsibility through its feedback system to guarantee that people selling through eBay with a feedback rating that high are legitimate. If you had a lot of time, money and patience, I bet you could prevail over eBay in this case (and set a significant precedent for future incidents). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Feb 10 11:58:16 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) Message-ID: <200302101755.JAA09219@clulw009.amd.com> Hi There was some software multitasking done on 6502's, as well as other machines. This was done in Forth ( both preemptive and various round robin taskers ). Forth has the advantage that a task state can be saved with just two pointers. You do need to swap task at word boundaries. This can cause a little latency if it is a interrupt driven tasker. ( "word" here refers to the minimum executable unit of the Forth engine and not the address size ). Dwight >From: "Patrick Finnegan" > >On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > >> =====excerpt=2====================== >> >> A 6502 task context >> would therefore require moving about 1KB, which would take about 4,500 >> instructions (at one instruction per cycle.) On a circa-1980's machine, >> with a 1MHz clock, that would take about 4.5 msec. > >This gives me awfully devious ideas... First, were there any 'multitasking >machines' designed around the 6502? If you wanted to do multitasking, it >seems like you could design a fairly simple MMU that would swap out the >zero-page and stack (or all of the memory pages) for different ones, >depending on the running task. Leaving only a few registers that need to >be saved, it would leave a very small overhead for task swapping. You >could even implement kernel and user mode into the MMU, making it swap >pages automatically on an interrupt or 'memory write' to signal a syscall >(and a swapping of pages, interrupt to the CPU and transition to 'kernel >mode'). > >I think I'm going to need to start playing with designing a 6502-based >machine now... Or maybe I should just get back to working on putting >machines into racks so I have some floorspace around here to work in. > >Pat >-- >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From cb at mythtech.net Mon Feb 10 12:05:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine Message-ID: >The people bidding on this magazine have no idea what they're doing. I >have at least 2-3 copies of this issue (san autographs, but still). Yeah, I can't imagine it being too rare. There is a store where I vacation (jersey shore), that sells old magazines and the likes. With a few odd execptions, nothing ever seems to go for more than about $50 max. (Exceptions include things like an unaltered copy of the Traci Lords issue of Penthouse, I think they wanted $125 for that... although I would think selling it would actually be illegal since she was under 18 for the shoot). Heck, things like the first appearance of Superman get about $15,000, and I would consider that WAY more collectible than the first issue of MacWorld even WITH signatures. -chris From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 10 12:05:19 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Question on chip date code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > Probably 7718 date code because 9322 is the old Faichild 9300 serial part > number for the 74157... That certainly makes sense! Thanks for the info. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Feb 10 12:09:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Feb 10, 03 01:01:13 pm Message-ID: <200302101804.NAA04303@wordstock.com> And thusly chris spake: > > Heck, things like the first appearance of Superman get about $15,000, and > I would consider that WAY more collectible than the first issue of > MacWorld even WITH signatures. Ummmm.... I believe the going rate for the first appearance of Superman in Action Comics #1 is over $100,000.... Cheers, Bryan From kittstr at access-4-free.com Mon Feb 10 12:12:00 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. Message-ID: <00cc01c2d12f$86027010$10491c43@amscomputer> Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular electronics, about software that would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I think it was about 10 years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything about this. My searches on google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help you can provide! Andrew Strouse From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Feb 10 12:19:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine References: <200302100240.VAA123262854@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <005401c2d130$aedf4b60$0100000a@milkyway> Megan wrote: > Unfortunately, a positive feedback (say, in the hundreds) also does > not guarantee that you won't get ripped-off. I recently (well, > November of last year), purchased something through ebay from someone > who had about 140+ for their feedback... and very few negatives. [snip scam description] This sounds very much like what a few Ebay scammers have done. First off, the scammer buys tons of low-value stuff like, for example, Beanie Babies, Pokemon/Yugioh trading cards, etc. These were then sold on Ebay, shipped as agreed. Which got the seller a very high feedback rating. Then they switched to selling expensive computer components, magazines, etc. Which they took payment for and never sent on. At which point the scammers fled the country with thousands of dollars of other people's money. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 10 12:22:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Need PDP-8 Flip Chip modules Message-ID: I am in need of the following Flip Chip modules: R302 (3) R604 (2) R002 S111 (7) S602 (2) R210 (8) If you have any spares that you wouldn't mind trading or selling away, please contact me directly . Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Feb 10 12:27:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? Message-ID: Had I known that I might have bid on the first one that came up on eBay recently. I thought it might be just a fancy paperweight without the proper keyboard. I'll watch for a reasonable deal on one of those to show up again sometime. >From: Eric Dittman > >The ELT320 can use either an AT-type keyboard or an LK201-type >keyboard (I have an LK401 connected to mine). _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 10 12:29:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine References: <200302100240.VAA123262854@shell.TheWorld.com> <005401c2d130$aedf4b60$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <012201c2d131$8b8d6f60$0400fea9@game> Hey pay with a credit card, if you never get it call visa/mastercard and you dont have to pay for it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 1:17 PM Subject: Re: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine > Megan wrote: > > Unfortunately, a positive feedback (say, in the hundreds) also does > > not guarantee that you won't get ripped-off. I recently (well, > > November of last year), purchased something through ebay from someone > > who had about 140+ for their feedback... and very few negatives. > [snip scam description] > This sounds very much like what a few Ebay scammers have done. First off, > the scammer buys tons of low-value stuff like, for example, Beanie Babies, > Pokemon/Yugioh trading cards, etc. These were then sold on Ebay, shipped as > agreed. Which got the seller a very high feedback rating. Then they switched > to selling expensive computer components, magazines, etc. Which they took > payment for and never sent on. At which point the scammers fled the country > with thousands of dollars of other people's money. > > Later. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Mon Feb 10 12:29:15 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarlet Otter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E477D70.26814.185B95F4@localhost> Subject: Re: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine From: chris To: "Classic Computer" Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:01:13 -0500 > Heck, things like the first appearance of Superman get about $15,000, > and I would consider that WAY more collectible than the first issue of > MacWorld even WITH signatures. > Theoretically, it would seem that the signatures would devalue the magazine... Hey! There's writing on the cover, in permanent ink. This magazine is no longer in mint condition! :D -- Otter From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Feb 10 12:31:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: <00cc01c2d12f$86027010$10491c43@amscomputer> References: <00cc01c2d12f$86027010$10491c43@amscomputer> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Andrew Strouse wrote: > Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular electronics, about software > that would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I think it was > about 10 years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything about this. > My searches on google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help you > can provide! I remember the article, and I know I have the issue somewhere. If no other info turns up, I'll see if I can find it in my shelves of magazines. (Gosh I wish I had some sort of computer based index for those...) -Toth From hansp at aconit.org Mon Feb 10 12:44:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Need PDP-8 Flip Chip modules References: Message-ID: <3E47F2A1.4060808@aconit.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I am in need of the following Flip Chip modules: > > R302 (3) > R604 (2) > R002 > S111 (7) > S602 (2) > R210 (8) I think these are the same one used in the PDP-9 if so we can probably drum up most of these. Problem is how to "liberate" them from our collection. What are you willing to trade/pay? -- hbp From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 10 12:46:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: <00cc01c2d12f$86027010$10491c43@amscomputer> Message-ID: >Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular electronics, about software that >would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I think it was about 10 >years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything about this. My searches on >google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help you can provide! > >Andrew Strouse I don't remember the name, but about seven years ago, one of the machines I was responsible for was an HP 9000/750 (Unix system) that had a commercial product like this attached. I don't remember anything about it other than the fact that the tapes cost about $100 each, as they had to be specially certified. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cb at mythtech.net Mon Feb 10 12:47:39 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine Message-ID: >> Heck, things like the first appearance of Superman get about $15,000, and >> I would consider that WAY more collectible than the first issue of >> MacWorld even WITH signatures. > >Ummmm.... I believe the going rate for the first appearance of Superman in >Action Comics #1 is over $100,000.... I can't say I am surprised. Its been a LONG time since I looked into comic values (I have a box of a few #1's around, but I don't think of anything worth much). Either way... MacWorld ain't the first appearance of Superman, heck, it ain't even the first appearance of the Mac! -chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Feb 10 12:50:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap "protection" References: <200302101558.KAA07063@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3E47F2CA.50801@jetnet.ab.ca> Bryan Pope wrote: > Hey all, > > Awhile ago there was a thread about electrolytic capacitors popping and > then destroying the motherboard they are on. One of the ideas was to > replace them before they go. > > Now I was wondering about another idea... Would it be okay to encase > the capacitor in silicone gel? Then when the capacitor pops, it wouldn't > spread its electrolyte all over the motherboard. > > But would this cause other problems with heat or something? Would it > further shorten the life of the capacitor? > Also chlorine as found in water, can distroy caps very quickly if got inside. Ben. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Feb 10 12:52:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap "protection" Message-ID: <200302101848.KAA09249@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Bryan Pope" > >Hey all, > > Awhile ago there was a thread about electrolytic capacitors popping and >then destroying the motherboard they are on. One of the ideas was to >replace them before they go. > > Now I was wondering about another idea... Would it be okay to encase >the capacitor in silicone gel? Then when the capacitor pops, it wouldn't >spread its electrolyte all over the motherboard. > > But would this cause other problems with heat or something? Would it >further shorten the life of the capacitor? > >Cheers, > >Bryan > Hi There isn't much you could cover it with that would stop a cap from blowing. The pressures can get to several thousand PSI if there isn't a relief someplace. Wrapping several layers of paper towel around them might be better. This would at least keep the mess from the PCB. There was an article about some bad capacitors made in the last few years. According to the story, someone stole a formula for the electrolyte and the formula was missing some key ingredient ( most likely a depolarizer ). The caps made this way would out gas and rupture. Dwight From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 10 13:01:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: CDs and the rights thereto In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030209231914.00a83ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <20030118034120.66072.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030209231914.00a83ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <4897.4.20.168.230.1044903500.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Mike Ford wrote: > I once bid on a pile of junk in the corner of an auction, and turned out > under a layer of misc there was a full pallet of cases of spindles of > CDs for some current commercial software. About 20,000 CDs, no jewel > boxes, but many boxes of the paper inserts, just I am sure no legal > right to sell or distribute them. In the US? If so, you bought them, and you have a legal right to sell them. This isn't even subject to any sort of license; the ownership of the physical media is completely clear-cut. The manufacturer has no right to control your sale of the media in any way, except by asserting that the physical media has been stolen (physical item theft, not "software piracy"), or that the media was in fact produced without their authorization. Another way to look at it: what if you had bought a lot at an auction, then discovered that it happened to contain a bunch of books, perhaps the latest Stephen King novel? Could you sell those? Of course! The case with software is similar, although there is a law prohibiting software rental [*]. However, you (or any party to whom you sell the media) might or might not have any right to *use* the software. This hinges on whether you can run the software from CD or must first copy it to a hard drive, whether such copying is infringement (possibly not as it may be fair use), and whether making a transient copy of the software in the RAM of the computer is infringement. As I understand it, there is conflicting case law on these issues. However, IANAL so YMMV. Eric [*] The prohibition on software rental was strongly pushed by the publishers of video game cartridges. The law was passed, but ironically video game cartridges are exempted and may be rented! From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 10 13:03:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3487.4.20.168.230.1044903584.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jay West wrote: > I wasn't going to dig into my 11/44 system until I finished the > 2000/Access system, but due to circumstances beyond my control I had to > dig into it already. I have some really simple basic questions perhaps > others can point me in the right direction. Get the manuals from Al's site. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 10 13:04:35 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap 'protection' In-Reply-To: <200302101558.KAA07063@wordstock.com> References: <200302101558.KAA07063@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <4848.4.20.168.230.1044903634.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Bryan wrote: > Now I was wondering about another idea... Would it be okay to encase > the capacitor in silicone gel? Then when the capacitor pops, it > wouldn't spread its electrolyte all over the motherboard. Won't that make it harder to replace the capacitor when it does fail? From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 10 13:07:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular electronics, about software > that would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I think it was > about 10 years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything about this. > My searches on google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help you > can provide! I have no specific info about THAT article. About TWENTY years ago, Corvus had a VHS backup for Aplle][ From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 10 13:09:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Question on chip date code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1995.4.20.168.230.1044903960.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote: > I am looking at a chip that is causing me confusing with regards to its > actual date code. > > The chip is labeled thusly: > > (logo) /718 > DM74157N > 9322 > > (logo) looks something like this: /\/ > /\/ > > ...which probably makes it National Semiconductor. Yes. The "DM" prefix is also indicative of that. Most other vendors of 7400 series parts copied the "SN" prefix from TI. > My first instinct is to guess that its date code is 9322. However, it > does not fit within the context of the rest of the board, which is 1976. The DM74157N was also known as a DM9322, so the part is dual-marked. > They are definitely not original, as the board calls for a 74257 but the > 74157 has been put in its place with the addition of a capacitor across > +5 and ground. The capacitor is just for additional decoupling, and doesn't change the function of the chip. The particular board you're looking at (I can guess what it is) was spec'd for either a 74157 or 74257. Eric From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 10 13:11:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3487.4.20.168.230.1044903584.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <000d01c2d137$9e7e9ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Eric wrote... > Get the manuals from Al's site. There's TONS of manuals there... was hoping someone could narrow it down for me to just a manual or two From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Feb 10 13:14:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: CDs and the rights thereto In-Reply-To: <4897.4.20.168.230.1044903500.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 10, 03 10:58:20 am Message-ID: <200302101909.OAA08423@wordstock.com> And thusly Eric Smith spake: > > case with software is similar, although there is a law prohibiting > software rental [*]. > > [*] The prohibition on software rental was strongly pushed by the > publishers of video game cartridges. The law was passed, but > ironically video game cartridges are exempted and may be rented! > And console video game CDs... *sigh* This must have been made international law, since there used to be a couple of great software rental places in London, Ontario called "Software Library" that were closed because of it. :( Cheers, Bryan From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Feb 10 13:16:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap "protection" In-Reply-To: <200302101848.KAA09249@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200302101848.KAA09249@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > Awhile ago there was a thread about electrolytic capacitors popping > > and then destroying the motherboard they are on. One of the ideas was > > to replace them before they go. > > > > Now I was wondering about another idea... Would it be okay to encase > > the capacitor in silicone gel? Then when the capacitor pops, it > > wouldn't spread its electrolyte all over the motherboard. > > > > But would this cause other problems with heat or something? Would it > > further shorten the life of the capacitor? > > There isn't much you could cover it with that would stop a cap from > blowing. The pressures can get to several thousand PSI if there isn't a > relief someplace. Wrapping several layers of paper towel around them > might be better. This would at least keep the mess from the PCB. > There was an article about some bad capacitors made in the last few > years. According to the story, someone stole a formula for the > electrolyte and the formula was missing some key ingredient ( most > likely a depolarizer ). The caps made this way would out gas and > rupture. Why not just cover the cap with heat-shrink tubing? I've seen this done quite a bit in high end switching power supplies. They often have about 3/8-1/2" extra sticking up from the top of the cap. -Toth From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Feb 10 13:18:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap 'protection' In-Reply-To: <4848.4.20.168.230.1044903634.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 10, 03 11:00:34 am Message-ID: <200302101912.OAA14269@wordstock.com> And thusly Eric Smith spake: > > Bryan wrote: > > Now I was wondering about another idea... Would it be okay to encase > > the capacitor in silicone gel? Then when the capacitor pops, it > > wouldn't spread its electrolyte all over the motherboard. > > Won't that make it harder to replace the capacitor when it does fail? > Isn't there a little bit of clearance from the cap to the board? This could give you enough space to remove it... (But if it blows up like what was said a few messages ago, it may not matter) Cheers, Bryan From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Feb 10 13:24:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000001c2d139$9c4824f0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > It would appear the first 8 or so cards are required to be in > certain slots. Cpu set basically. If I don't have FPP or CIS > stuff, those slots get left blank? Do any grant or jumper > type cards need to be there if FPP and CIS cards aren't > present? Do you need to change jumpers/switches on the other > cards that make up the cpu if there is no FPP or CIS? I've never touched an 11/44 myself, but there are a bunch of technical manuals over at: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp11/ There's also Henk's printsets available from: http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/ > Also, from what I recall of the Qbus stuff I have, the > various peripheral cards need to be set for where they appear > in memory, the address of the card, correct? So.. need to > find docs on the 8 port mux and the RL01/02 controller. Docs for the RL01/RL02 are at both the above sites. Typically for Qbus the settings required for each card are determined by exactly what else you have in there. The procedure is essentially the same for UNIBUS (IIRC) and the RL02 manuals (amongst many others) should have the gory details. > Second: > Looking at the TU-58 drive, the rubber rollers in each drive > appear to be highly questionable - pretty gummy. What's the > best way to fix those rubber rollers? I was thinking of > cleaning off the rubber, and maybe getting a vacuum cleaner > belt and building a new surface by cutting it to size and > wrapping it around the metal cylinder. Just how touchy is the > parameter for the diameter of that wheel if I'm off, making > it slightly thinner or thicker? Is there a better way? Somewhere there's an article by someone describing exactly what they used to fix there TU58 (basically snip a bit off the end of an approximately correctly sized tube). I cannot find it right now but I almost certainly read of it here, so the archives may be a good place to start! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 10 13:27:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Assembly on a Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: <10302081906.ZM17893@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "Jim Keohane" "Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+" (Feb 8, 11:06) Message-ID: <3E480A9D.20863.1B4811E@localhost> > > So perhaps "one instruction per clock cycle" may be awfully close > > with pipelining and with use of zero page. > You must be thinking of some different 6502 to the rest of us :-) As > Sellam said, no 6502 opcode takes less than two clock cycles to > execute, and most take more (up to 7): the only 2-cycle instructions > are the ones with implied addressing, like RTS, CLI, TAX, ... This is > why a 6502 running typical well-written code, running on a 2MHz clock, > manages at best around 0.7 MIPS. > There's no pipelining at all in a 6502. No overlap of instructions > whatsoever. Beg your pardon, but that's not completle true. For basic instructions timeing the timeing is always equivalent to the number of memory accesses. So a LDA zp has 3 cylces, two for the instruction and one for the data byte. The excepton here are a) One byte (inpled/accumulator) instructions, which always take two cycles b) page misses, where the effective address crosses a page boundry c) RMW which add 2 cycles d) taken braches which add 1 cycle. Point d) alone gives a heavy hint about a pipelineing... The 6502 pipeline can be seen as one byte deep. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 10 13:27:18 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: PACEMIPPS? In-Reply-To: <20030210041626.9725.qmail@mail.seefried.com> References: <20030209180001.18059.78779.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20030209180001.18059.78779.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030210140359.0fcf988a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:16 PM 2/9/03 -0500, Ken wrote: >From: Joe >>Can anyone tell me exactly what a PACEMIPS PIMM - 33SG144C is? It's >>made byPerformance Semiconductor but it's not listed on their (POOR!) >>website. I THINK it might be an R33000 embedded processor but I'm not >>sure. > >Performance Semi, AFAIK, generally does semiconductors for >military/aerospace applications. I recall dimly that they made some >MIL-SPEC MIPS devices; this would perhaps be one of them. The part number >you cite is not familiar, but might be one of the line of R3000+R3010 >derivatives. Not as esoteric as their relatively popular MIL-STD-1750A >processors, but unusual none-the-less. I believe tht you're right on all counts. I had my hands on a PS catalog but left it at the hamfest. The seller is a friend of mine and I'm hoping that he remembers that I wanted it. The catalog doesn't list the 33SG144C (it's an '89 catalog and the ICs are dated '94) but it does list the Pace-Mipps R2000, R3000, R3010 and some others as well as the 175x chips. It says that the MIPPs ICs are standard MIPPs processors but built to Mil-Standards. > >I've actually got some Performance Semi 1750A chipsets...I must think of >something to do with them... I've got a few as well. I also just found a 1753 (MMU IIRC) and 1754 (I/O interface IIRC). In case you'r enot aware of it, the 1750 is a "standard" processor that the government is trying to use in all aircraft and aerospace applications. Joe > >Ken From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 10 13:29:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030210192654.46874.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Glen S wrote: > Had I known that I might have bid on the first one that came up on eBay > recently. I thought it might be just a fancy paperweight without the > proper keyboard. Well... even _with_ the keyboard, it's a fancy paperweight to most people. I liked the fact that this seller *mentioned* that the ELT320 is a terminal and *not* a PeeCee monitor. > I'll watch for a reasonable deal on one of those to show up > again sometime. In my limited experience, I've seen three so far - never more than one at a time. Before this one, they seemed to be in the $20-$30 range, give or take a little for docs/power supply. I know there's others here and on the SBC6120 list that are also looking for them now. Hopefully the supply will continue to trickle them out now and then. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 10 13:31:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Need PDP-8 Flip Chip modules In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030210192842.26280.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I am in need of the following Flip Chip modules: > > R302 (3) > R604 (2) > R002 > S111 (7) > S602 (2) > R210 (8) If you don't mind telling us, what are they going into? > If you have any spares that you wouldn't mind trading or selling away, > please contact me directly . Sorry... mine are all attached to 12-bit CPUs/peripherals. I don't even have spares for the stuff I have - gonna have to do component- level diagnosis when I find the time to get back to them. :-( -ethan From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 10 13:31:17 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. References: Message-ID: <3E47FD70.A70F9C14@rain.org> The software I have is called "AutoFax Imager Program" (c)1986 but requires the included interface card. It is an 8-bit card and the installation instructions use an IBM PC. "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular electronics, about software > > that would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I think it was > > about 10 years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything about this. > > My searches on google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help you > > can provide! > > I have no specific info about THAT article. > About TWENTY years ago, Corvus had a VHS backup for Aplle][ From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Feb 10 13:35:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:44 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap "protection" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c2d13b$37426910$020010ac@k4jcw> Because the caps blow out the bottom. Most caps have a rubber seal at the bottom, and the aluminum can is crimped around it. The caps (in my experience) rarely split from this problem. Instead, they swell until they force electrolyte out from the crimp area. I'm not convinced that anything you can do will prevent damage. Better just to replace suspect caps. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tothwolf > Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 14:22 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Electrolytic cap "protection" > > > On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > > Awhile ago there was a thread about electrolytic > capacitors popping > > > and then destroying the motherboard they are on. One of > the ideas was > > > to replace them before they go. > > > > > > Now I was wondering about another idea... Would it be > okay to encase > > > the capacitor in silicone gel? Then when the capacitor pops, it > > > wouldn't spread its electrolyte all over the motherboard. > > > > > > But would this cause other problems with heat or > something? Would it > > > further shorten the life of the capacitor? > > > > There isn't much you could cover it with that would stop a cap from > > blowing. The pressures can get to several thousand PSI if > there isn't a > > relief someplace. Wrapping several layers of paper towel around them > > might be better. This would at least keep the mess from the PCB. > > There was an article about some bad capacitors made in the last few > > years. According to the story, someone stole a formula for the > > electrolyte and the formula was missing some key ingredient ( most > > likely a depolarizer ). The caps made this way would out gas and > > rupture. > > Why not just cover the cap with heat-shrink tubing? I've seen > this done > quite a bit in high end switching power supplies. They often > have about > 3/8-1/2" extra sticking up from the top of the cap. > > -Toth From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 10 13:36:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: <003501c2cfef$0e216c40$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Message-ID: <3E480CBC.9267.1BCC776@localhost> > > >> A 6502 task context > > >> would therefore require moving about 1KB, which would take about 4,500 > > >> instructions (at one instruction per cycle.) On a circa-1980's > > >> machine, with a 1MHz clock, that would take about 4.5 msec. > > > This gives me awfully devious ideas... First, were there any > > > 'multitasking machines' designed around the 6502? If you wanted to do > > > multitasking, it seems like you could design a fairly simple MMU that > > > would swap out the zero-page and stack (or all of the memory pages) for > > > different ones, depending on the running task. Leaving only a few > > > registers that need to be saved, it would leave a very small overhead > > > for task swapping. > > The Apple /// hardware supports this. It allows you to select an > > alternate > > pair of pages to replace page zero and page one. AFAIK, it was never used > > for user-level multitasking, but was used to provide separate user and > > OS contexts. > Yup, the 6502B I think it was. A nice system. - Jim Not to forget the 65802/816, where Stack and Zero Page could be located anywhere in the first 64k. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Feb 10 13:42:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap "protection" In-Reply-To: Bryan Pope "Electrolytic cap "protection"" (Feb 10, 10:58) References: <200302101558.KAA07063@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <10302101935.ZM19776@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 10, 10:58, Bryan Pope wrote: > Awhile ago there was a thread about electrolytic capacitors popping and > then destroying the motherboard they are on. One of the ideas was to > replace them before they go. > > Now I was wondering about another idea... Would it be okay to encase > the capacitor in silicone gel? Then when the capacitor pops, it wouldn't > spread its electrolyte all over the motherboard. > > But would this cause other problems with heat or something? Would it > further shorten the life of the capacitor? Well, it's not going to improve its life, and it does mean that when it goes, it will make a louder bang, since it will be harder for the electrolyte to get out. Silicone isn't terribly strong, so it won't stop it. If you look at most electrolytic caps, you'll see they're designed to come apart under stress without turning into small grenades; the ends are scored, or the seals are deliberately made less strong than the aluminium case. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Feb 10 13:42:27 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Seeking info on two PROM chips. In-Reply-To: Paul Thompson "Re: Seeking info on two PROM chips." (Feb 10, 8:03) References: Message-ID: <10302101932.ZM19773@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 10, 8:03, Paul Thompson wrote: > On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > > E8 means they're 128KB, or 1 Megabit. The part numbers you quote are > > listed in Compaq Assisted Services online catalogue at $4 apiece, so > > you might still be able to get them from DEC/HP. > > I am not sure I have the URL for this, unless it is something I know by > another name.... Try a web search for "Compaq Assisted Services" or for the 23- part numbers you quoted? :-) Or http://www-legacy.digital.com/CAS-Catalog/pric.html -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 10 13:45:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: TU58 roller refurb (was Re: 11/44 basic newbie help request) In-Reply-To: <043e01c2d124$9d4703e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030210194223.32016.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jay West wrote: > Ethan wrote... > > I have replaced my gummy > > tu58 rollers one by one, with a slice of tygon tubing from the > > hardware store. There is a standard stocked size that seems to > > work just about perfectly. > > Cool! All I need to know now is what size tygon tube to buy :) Found it! http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1997-11/0973.html 3/8" ID thick-wall tubing. Should be slightly over 1/2" OD unstretched, IIRC. -ethan From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 10 13:49:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Xerox 8/16 available in Baltimore, MD area Message-ID: See below. Contact original sender. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 19:43:03 -0500 From: bernhardbang@netscape.net Subject: Zerox 16/8 Gentlemen, I have a Zerox 16/8 computer, complete with instruction manuals. Barely used. Includes Monitor and keyboard. Is it of any value? Do you want it? Who might want it? Thank you for your reply! Bernhard Bang 4208 Wickford Road Baltimore, MD 21210 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 10 14:21:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030209203400.4f370e26@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030210152057.19373ef4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Sellam, Well, I guess I could be in worse company! :-) Joe At 09:47 AM 2/10/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > >> I think anybody that would pay that kind of money without a LOT more >> proof of authenticity is an idiot! A rich idiot perhaps but an idiot >> none the less. > >Hey Joe, you'd better be careful. You never know when one of those >"idiots" will show up on classiccmp claiming to represent the entire old >computer magazine collecting community and trying to rationalize the >price, then bringing your entire character into question for basically >calling it like it is. > >I seem to recall a certain chip collector doing this to me in recent times >;) > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrice54 at charter.net Mon Feb 10 14:25:01 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Electrolytic cap "protection" In-Reply-To: <000501c2d13b$37426910$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <000501c2d13b$37426910$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3E4809DB.9040507@charter.net> Actually the recent caps that have been failing have both leaked from the botton seal and have had pressure build up to the point of splitting the upper case top along the little cross hair crimp. So electrolyte has been leaking from the top and bottom of each cap. James J.C.Wren wrote: > Because the caps blow out the bottom. Most caps have a rubber seal at the > bottom, and the aluminum can is crimped around it. The caps (in my > experience) rarely split from this problem. Instead, they swell until they > force electrolyte out from the crimp area. I'm not convinced that anything > you can do will prevent damage. Better just to replace suspect caps. > > --John From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Feb 10 14:43:01 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:09:15 EST." <00cc01c2d12f$86027010$10491c43@amscomputer> Message-ID: <200302101854.SAA17576@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Andrew Strouse" said: > Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular electronics, about software that > would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I think it was about 10 > years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything about this. My searches on > google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help you can provide! I certainly remember an ISA card and software combo that did that. I could probably find an advert in an old magazine if I did a little digging. I'll look later... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Feb 10 14:47:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Chip ID on Fujitsu MB15140 needed Message-ID: <50.17e55cbf.2b79694f@aol.com> I seem to have a couple hundred MB15140s in their original Fujitsu IC boxes. Does anyone have an idea what they are? Picture at http://members.aol.com/innfosale/MB15140A.JPG Is there a Fujitsu chip list on the Internet available? Google did not bring anything up for me. The date codes are 8809 so they are on topic. I got them from Fujitsu nearly 10 years ago and uncovered them recently. I would not be surprised if they were for the Fujitsu 8" or 14" hard drives since I bought a lot of new parts when they dismantled their 8" line in Hillsboro, OR. Any help appreciated. Paxton Astoria, OR From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 10 14:51:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular electronics, about software > that would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I think it was > about 10 years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything about this. My > searches on google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help you can > provide! Corvus System had a hard drive that could be attached to a VCR so that backups could be made to VHS tape. The hard drive had to have what was called a "Mirror Board" attached. There were other companies that used the technology. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 10 14:57:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Need PDP-8 Flip Chip modules In-Reply-To: <20030210192842.26280.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I am in need of the following Flip Chip modules: > > > > R302 (3) > > R604 (2) > > R002 > > S111 (7) > > S602 (2) > > R210 (8) > > If you don't mind telling us, what are they going into? A PDP-8. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 10 14:58:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: How about this price not being accepted for a Magazine In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030210152057.19373ef4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > Well, I guess I could be in worse company! :-) But not by much ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 10 15:22:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <000d01c2d137$9e7e9ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3487.4.20.168.230.1044903584.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <000d01c2d137$9e7e9ee0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1493.4.20.168.230.1044912014.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Eric wrote... >> Get the manuals from Al's site. > > There's TONS of manuals there... was hoping someone could narrow it down > for me to just a manual or two Yes, the PDP-11/44 manuals. There aren't "TONS" of those. From alhartman at yahoo.com Mon Feb 10 16:07:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: NuTek One / DUET Mac Clone In-Reply-To: <20030210180001.29440.67458.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030210220422.48224.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> I have a set of pages about this unit on my website... http://www.geocities.com/macemulist/nutek.html I'd like to buy one of these, if I can find one. If anyone on this list has one in any condition (hopefully working or repairable), please contact me off list... Basically, this was an attempt to clone the Mac including making a Clone OS. If you have one of these, I'd love to get copies of any floppies that came with it, manuals, and a dump of the ROMS even if you don't want to sell yours. It would be interesting to see if the ROMS would work on one of the many Mac Emulators, or could be made to work. Regards, Al Hartman (Macintosh Emulation List Host) http://www.topica.com/lists/MacEmuList Enlightenment means taking full responsibility for your life. - William Blake From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Feb 10 16:11:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: What is a HP 98029A Resource Management Interface? Message-ID: Well, this is not in my 1981, 82, 84 or 85 HP catalogs. I was wondering what resource it manages, what it plugs into? Any info out there on this? Anyone have a 1983 HP catalog they could check? or maybe a 1980? It works with the HP 9825, 9835 & 9845 series of computers from the early 1980s. On the other end is an Amphenol 50 pin female connector, similar to early SCSI 1 connectors. Pictures at: http://members.aol.com/innfosale/ebay/98029A1A.JPG http://members.aol.com/innfosale/ebay/98029A1B.JPG Any help would be appreciated. Thanks a lot. Paxton Astoria, OR From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Feb 10 16:47:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: What is a HP 98029A Resource Management Interface? References: Message-ID: <3E482B97.2040103@gifford.co.uk> Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > Well, this is not in my 1981, 82, 84 or 85 HP catalogs. I was wondering what > resource it manages, what it plugs into? Any info out there on this? Anyone > have a 1983 HP catalog they could check? or maybe a 1980? FWIW, it's not in my 1987 HP catalogue, either. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From rickb at bensene.com Mon Feb 10 17:23:01 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. References: <200302101854.SAA17576@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <003801c2d15a$fdccbb70$b066a8c0@wrickben02> > "Andrew Strouse" said: > > Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular electronics, about software that > > would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I think it was about 10 > > years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything about this. My searches on > > google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help you can provide! > I don't have any reference to what you're looking for, but do have a story about such technology. Alpha Micro had a board that would go into their early systems that would do just that. There was an AMOS application that would do automatic unattended backups to standard VHS tapes. A company that my wife worked for years ago used Alpha Micro (I believe they were S100 bus machines with a Western Digital microprocessor that was PDP11-like -- I think it the system was called an AM-100?) system for a custom-written system (in Alpha Micro's powerful BASIC compiler environment) that managed all aspects of patient records management and billing for institutional pharmacies (nursing homes, hospitals, etc.). Timeframe was probably the early 1980's, if I remember correctly. The system, as I recall, had a big S100 chassis stuffed with boards, including multi-port serial boards, lots of memory, an SMD disk intefrace (that hooked up to multiple CDC Hawk 14" drives (later upgraded to Fujitsu Eagle), and a special card that fed video out to the VHS VCR for tape backup. The VHS backup system worked pretty well, but they eventually had more data than could be held on one tape, so they ended up going with another type of backup technology. As a result, they had a ton of used VHS tapes that they just put out in the employee lunchroom for people to take. My wife brought home a few thinking that we could just use them as 'scratch' tape sto record TV onto. I was curious, so I stuck one of them in my VCR and pushed "PLAY". The resulting display on the TV was quite interesting. Apparently the 'backup' part of the nterface card was nothing much more than a small video system, with a frame buffer memory and video interface circuitry. The video was just a pattern of bits that showed up as black and white rectangles (not at tremendously high resolution) on the screen, with a series of static patterns on the first few rows (framing data?) followed by a bunch of random bits (payload), followed by more (different) static bits that probably served as an 'end of frame' indicator. The 'restore' aspect of the board was probably fairly simple circuitry to pick out the framing and payload data from the video stream, and ship it back to the application in byte-sized chunks. Interesting technology. Seems to me that with today's fancy video boards that have video digitizers built into them, it wouldn't be too tough to reproduce this technology using such a video card. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Feb 10 17:30:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: What is a HP 98029A Resource Management Interface? In-Reply-To: Innfogra@aol.com's message of "Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:07:15 EST" References: Message-ID: <200302102302.h1AN2HcP068781@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > It works with the HP 9825, 9835 & 9845 series of computers from the early > 1980s. On the other end is an Amphenol 50 pin female connector, similar to > early SCSI 1 connectors. WAG from the name: it's a widget to connect a 98x5 into an HP Shared Resource Management (SRM) network. I vaguely recall that there was a coaxial SRM bus cable, and some SRM interfaces had the BNC connector for the bus cable while others had a 50-pin Amphenol connector and expected to have a transceiver-like device between the Amphenol connector and the coax. I've read about this stuff in manuals, but never used it or even seen it in use. And I didn't know you could hook a 98x5 up to it, my readings about it have been in the context of HP9000 series 200 and 300 systems. -Frank McConnell From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 10 17:48:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Eureka! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030209204853.4e972c12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Feb 9, 3 08:48:53 pm Message-ID: > >I assume it connects to the 9825 using a 98032 16 bit interface. > > Correct. somewhere I do have the installation manual for the 9877 > and it does clearly show a 98032 interface. I don't remember the option I am not suprised. It's the only standard interface that would make any sense at all. > number of the interface but it's probably 77 or 077. That seems to be > typical of how HP assigns option numbers on the 98032. Yes. I've seen some 3 digit option codes where the first digit indicated the host computer it was to work it (4xx numbers for the 9845, etc), but that was probably just specifying the driver software tape to include. > > > Do you > >(or anoyne else) have the wiring for the cable and the jumpers for the > >98032? > > No, that's another thing that needs to be found. NASA does have the > interface on theirs but I couldn't get them to give me any info about > the jumpers or anything other than the interface PN. I assume you can't convince them to leave you alone with the interface for an hour :-). At which point, of course you unscrew the back shell and note down the jumpers, and also buzz out the connections between the connectors. > > > That's something else I've not managed to find (98032s I have, > >plenty of them). > > Same here. Incidentally, I am looking for jumpers/wirelists for any of the options other than 085... > > > > >[...] > > > >> program for it till now. The tape APPEARS to be in good condition but > >> you know how HP tapes are :-( > > > >If it is readable, can the 9877 be used to duplicate it? > > It should be able to. AFIK the 9877 will duplicate all 9825 tapes. > Accroding to an x-HP engineer that was one of the 9825 developers, the > 9877 was designed specificly for HP factory use to mass duplicate 9825 > tapes so I would think it would duplicate everything. I don't remember > if the 9825 has a file protect command or not but if so then it might > not duplicate protected files. I am pretty sure the 9825 does have some kind of 'private' file capability -- even the 9830 does. On the other hand, it's just a bit set in the file header or something, so it is _possible_ to duplicate them. HP must have had a way of doing this (they didn't protect each individual tape they shipped, surely :-)). The 9877 is a very low level device (like the tape controller in the 9825). It works at the bit level. It doesn't even turn those bits into bytes/words (the internal 9825 controller does use DMA, but it transfers data to/from the LSB of the memory words only. Software then repacks that into bytes/words!). The 9877 is similar -- my guess, without proof, is that it uses the DMA capability of the 98032. It could read a block from one tape into a buffer in the 9825, then write it out to another tape. Note there's no internal hardware to automatically copy between tapes or anything like that -- all transfers must go via the 9825 memory. So the 9877 hardware is surely capablable of copying a protected tape. Whether the software prevents you is, of course, another matter. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 10 17:53:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Feb 10, 3 09:29:53 am Message-ID: > I wasn't going to dig into my 11/44 system until I finished the 2000/Access > system, but due to circumstances beyond my control I had to dig into it > already. I have some really simple basic questions perhaps others can point > me in the right direction. > > First: > It would appear the first 8 or so cards are required to be in certain slots. Yes. They _must_ be in the right slots. The numbers increase from the RHS of the backplane, BTW. > Cpu set basically. If I don't have FPP or CIS stuff, those slots get left > blank? Do any grant or jumper type cards need to be there if FPP and CIS > cards aren't present? Do you need to change jumpers/switches on the other No. The slots are simply empty. > cards that make up the cpu if there is no FPP or CIS? Not that I'm aware of. > > After the cpu set comes memory. I know these need to be set for what area of > memory the card is for. But according to the cover on the lid, there is > about 4 slots for memory. Then there is a jumper card that joins the two > backplans, 9300 or 9200 I think. I have an 8 port mux card. I assume it > can't go in the memory slots. So do the empty memory slots (don't have I think that's right. > enough memory cards to fill all 4 slots) neet any kind of grant card? If I I don't think there are any grant cards in memory solts. > recall correctly, after the memory is the jumper card that joins the two > backplanes... the 8 port mux could go next? And then next I'll put in a > RL01/02 controller. Then there is a buss termination card...I assume that The RL11 controller is an NPR device (==DMA for the rest of the world). You have to cut a wire jumper on the back of the slot where it's installed. Search the classiccmp archives for the CA1-CB1 jumper, Unibus NPG jumper. etc. > goes right after the RL01/02, are there any other jumper/termination/grant NO! The terminator (M930, M9302) _must_ go in the Unibus Out slot of a backplane, or you might well short out the PSU (!). This is the rearmost part of the leftmost slot of the backplane in almost all cases (as here). You then must put grant continuity cards in all the empty slots of the backplane. If you have the M9302 termintor and have an open grant chain, the CPU will never start (!). [...] > Looking at the TU-58 drive, the rubber rollers in each drive appear to be > highly questionable - pretty gummy. What's the best way to fix those rubber > rollers? I was thinking of cleaning off the rubber, and maybe getting a > vacuum cleaner belt and building a new surface by cutting it to size and Silicone rubber tubing of the right diameter is what most people use. > wrapping it around the metal cylinder. Just how touchy is the parameter for > the diameter of that wheel if I'm off, making it slightly thinner or Fairly. It sets the tape speed, and therefore the conversion between bit density on the tape and data rate at the head. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 10 17:56:28 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Question on chip date code In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 10, 3 09:01:08 am Message-ID: > I am looking at a chip that is causing me confusing with regards to its > actual date code. > > The chip is labeled thusly: > > (logo) /718 > DM74157N > 9322 > > (logo) looks something like this: /\/ > /\/ > > ...which probably makes it National Semiconductor. Yes. > > My first instinct is to guess that its date code is 9322. However, it My first guess to... However, 9322 is also a Fairchild TTL number, IIRC, a quad 2 input mux (which is what the '157 is). > does not fit within the context of the rest of the board, which is 1976. > They are definitely not original, as the board calls for a 74257 but the > 74157 has been put in its place with the addition of a capacitor across +5 > and ground. Hmm.. the '157 and '257 are both quad 2 input mux chips with the same pinout. The difference is that the '257 has 3-state outputs, the '157 doesn't. The pin (15) that handles output enable on the '257 (forces all outputs to the high impedance state), just forces all outputs low on the '157. If this pin is tied to ground then the 2 chips are equivalent. What worries me is that in 1976 thw '257 was a lot less common than the '157, so it wouldn't have been specified unless the 3-state capability was used. Of course it was common to find '157s with the enable tied low (asserted) (most of the time being able to force the outputs low was not that useful), in which case a '257 would replace them. But in my experience if a '257 was specified, there was a reason for it. > > Is it possible that the date code is actually "/718", and what I am seeing > as a slash is actually what remains of a '7' that wasn't printed > correctly? May be just 718, meaning 1977, week 18 or something. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 10 17:56:44 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Question on chip date code In-Reply-To: <1995.4.20.168.230.1044903960.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 10, 3 11:06:00 am Message-ID: > Yes. The "DM" prefix is also indicative of that. Most other vendors > of 7400 series parts copied the "SN" prefix from TI. I read somewhere (and I am not sure how accurate this is) that 'DM' stands for Digital Monolithic, and 'SN' for Semiconductor Network. The second is probably more likely to be correct than the first.. -tony From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 10 18:29:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Question on chip date code In-Reply-To: References: <1995.4.20.168.230.1044903960.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <4624.4.20.168.230.1044923189.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > I read somewhere (and I am not sure how accurate this is) that 'DM' > stands for Digital Monolithic, National Semiconductor databooks from 1975-1976 give explanations of some of the prefixes: AH - Analog Hybrid DM - Digital Monolithic DS - Digital Special LH - Linear Hybrid LM - Linear Monolithic MH - MOS Hybrid MM - MOS Monolithic There was also one for transducers, and maybe a few others I've forgotten. Note that there are some anomalies in the numbering. For instance, the MH0025 and MH0026 MOS clock drivers apparently used the MH prefix because they were used for *driving* MOS parts, not because they were constructed using MOS. They were then redesigned as monolithic parts, but given a DS prefix. > and 'SN' for Semiconductor Network. The > second is probably more likely to be correct than the first.. That's the first time I've seen any explanation for a TI prefix. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 10 18:44:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: What is a HP 98029A Resource Management Interface? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030210194731.13c7c122@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Shared Resource Manager is a form of network file sharing. The SRM adapters for the 9000 200/300 series computers are common around here and I've seen the adapters for the 98xx computers. But I've never been able to find out much about the file server end of SRM. Joe At 05:07 PM 2/10/03 EST, you wrote: >Well, this is not in my 1981, 82, 84 or 85 HP catalogs. I was wondering what >resource it manages, what it plugs into? Any info out there on this? Anyone >have a 1983 HP catalog they could check? or maybe a 1980? > >It works with the HP 9825, 9835 & 9845 series of computers from the early >1980s. On the other end is an Amphenol 50 pin female connector, similar to >early SCSI 1 connectors. > >Pictures at: >http://members.aol.com/innfosale/ebay/98029A1A.JPG >http://members.aol.com/innfosale/ebay/98029A1B.JPG > >Any help would be appreciated. Thanks a lot. >Paxton >Astoria, OR From alhartman at yahoo.com Mon Feb 10 18:58:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #449 - 55 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030211002900.33385.74773.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030211005553.81109.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> I put "VCR Backup" into Yahoo!, and this came up... http://www.viscountvideo.com/danmere.htm Hope this helps.. Regards, Al > From: "Andrew Strouse" > To: > Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:09:15 -0500 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular > electronics, about software that > would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I > think it was about 10 > years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything > about this. My searches on > google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help > you can provide! > > Andrew Strouse From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 10 19:01:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: What is a HP 98029A Resource Management Interface? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030210194731.13c7c122@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Feb 10, 3 07:47:31 pm Message-ID: > Shared Resource Manager is a form of network file sharing. The SRM > adapters for the 9000 200/300 series computers are common around here > and I've seen the adapters for the 98xx computers. But I've never been > able to find out much about the file server end of SRM. Somewhere I have an HP computer in a box the same size as the standard HPIB hard disk units. IIRC contains an SMPSU, a CPU board flat in the bottom which contains a 68000 CPU, RAM, HPIB port, etc, and 3 expansion card slots. In my machine these contain a video card (looks to be monochrome text only), an SRM interface card (with a BNC connector) and a card with HP-HIL, sound, etc on it. Maybe there's another HPIB port on this card. It would take some time to find it to get the model number, but does anyone recognise it from the description. Could this be used as an SRM file server? -tony From ken at seefried.com Mon Feb 10 20:03:00 2003 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: PACEMIPPS? (and MIL-STD-1750A) In-Reply-To: <20030211002900.33385.74773.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030211002900.33385.74773.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030211020038.11625.qmail@mail.seefried.com> > From: Joe > It says that the MIPPs ICs are standard MIPPs processors > but built to Mil-Standards. That would actually be MIPS processors. The MIPS architecture came out of Stanford and stands for (supposedly) "Microprocessor without Interlocking Pipeline Stages". >>I've actually got some Performance Semi 1750A chipsets...I must think of >>>something to do with them... > > I've got a few as well. I also just found a 1753 (MMU IIRC) Yup. > and 1754 (I/O interface IIRC). Usually called a PIC (peripheral interface controller). Let me know if you ever want to get rid of those...I have several complete chipsets, but can always use spares. > In case you'r enot aware of it, the 1750 is a "standard" > processor that the government is trying to use in all > aircraft and aerospace applications. Well...it was the standard a decade or two ago; the standard came out around 1980, AFAIK. I don't think that there has been a hard requirement for 1750A in military contracts for a long, long time. It's only a 16-bit processor, after all, and almost noone makes it any more (Performance doesn't). It, like the JOVIAL programming language often used to program it, are probably only around for maintenance and upgrades of existing platforms. Ken From ken at seefried.com Mon Feb 10 20:07:01 2003 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? In-Reply-To: <20030211002900.33385.74773.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030211002900.33385.74773.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030211020504.11644.qmail@mail.seefried.com> I've got a couple of ELT-320s. The PS brick says Model PSA-124, input 110v-240v@1.5A, output 12v@4.2A. From: Ethan Dicks > I know there's others here and on the SBC6120 list that are also > looking for them now. Hopefully the supply will continue to trickle > them out now and then. Hmmm...I'm in on the sbc6120. I was actually thinking of building it into a terminal case... From n8uhn at yahoo.com Mon Feb 10 20:36:01 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: asr 33 platen Message-ID: <20030211023411.48745.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> Good question, french dressing, nah - lol belt dressing - not sure if it even softens the belt but it does swell the belt. armor all - may work - might soften the platen - but it leaves a very slick coating - i wonder if the paper will stay in one place as the platen moves. the type "ball" hammer also has a rubber "button" that slips over it - i know those and the platen were once replacable - try a search for "teletype" on the web. i know the nadcomm meseum http://www.nadcomm.com/ has a link for teletype paper tape and paper on it. the nadcomm page links are near the bottom under the heading "Teletypewriter Supplies" Bill Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 14:51:14 -0700 From: ben franchuk To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: asr 33 platen Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org George R. Gonzalez wrote: > I need some suggestions! Should I try ArmorAll (known to soften rubber, > given time), "Platen cleaner", "belt dressing", "french dressing", or what? I would try 'rubber renue' from M.G. Chemicals. Ben. --__--__-- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Feb 10 21:48:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Feb 10, 3 12:45:04 pm" Message-ID: <200302110356.TAA25560@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Corvus System had a hard drive that could be attached to a VCR so that > backups could be made to VHS tape. The hard drive had to have what was > called a "Mirror Board" attached. > > There were other companies that used the technology. The Salvation Army, when they still used Alpha Micro systems (they may still be using them), had such a backup system (I helped with a few tasks at some of the local corps). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- NEWS ITEM: Energizer Bunny arrested, charged with battery ------------------ From erikb at digischool.nl Mon Feb 10 22:43:23 2003 From: erikb at digischool.nl (erikb@digischool.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Looking for info on Honeywell core memory Message-ID: <20030210171757.A909> Can anybody tell me more about this core memory assembly ? The assembly consists of three wire-wrapped "BICM9" backplanes, one of these holds four 8K x 9 core memory boards, the other two contain several modules with names like "M9INH", "M9SNS" and "M9SEL". Logic on the various boards appears to be mixed TTL/DTL (!) in standard DIL packages, most boards are from 1972. Pictures: http://www.digischool.nl/~erikb/identify.html Thanks in advance, Erik. From freddy at kotelna.sk Mon Feb 10 22:44:29 2003 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: was: Re: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: <00cc01c2d12f$86027010$10491c43@amscomputer> References: <00cc01c2d12f$86027010$10491c43@amscomputer> Message-ID: <20030210182029.GA29011@kotol.kotelna.sk> Andrew Strouse (kittstr@access-4-free.com) wrote : > Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular electronics, about software that > would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I think it was about 10 > years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything about this. My searches on > google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help you can provide! similiar question goes for mini-discs, were there any efforts anytime to use 140mb (?) minidisc as an external storage? -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From larry at laurelnet.com Mon Feb 10 22:44:44 2003 From: larry at laurelnet.com (Larry Laurel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. Message-ID: <53506af3d6a555f510273af48312e05e1608209b@bodekandrhodes.com> I believe it was Alpha Microsystems, and IIRC the PC version was sold through Radio Shack. I believe I may still have an old AM-610 (S-100) VCR interface board in the basement if anyone is interested (free to a good home)... Larry > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Andrew Strouse > Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 1:09 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. > > > Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular electronics, about > software that > would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I think it > was about 10 > years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything about this. > My searches on > google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help you can provide! > > Andrew Strouse From bill at timeguy.com Mon Feb 10 22:45:00 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: <200302101854.SAA17576@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20030210153922.V74340-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> I used to have one of those cards, along with the manual and software. I don't know if it made the move with me a couple of years ago or not. If anybody really wants it, I'll try to dig it up. As I recall from the manual, it basically just wrote the whole backup to tape 3 times and hoped for the best. There was no error recovery or search capability because the PC didn't control the VCR. On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Stan Barr wrote: > > I certainly remember an ISA card and software combo that did that. > I could probably find an advert in an old magazine if I did a little > digging. I'll look later... From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Feb 10 22:47:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: <200302101755.JAA09219@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > There was some software multitasking done on 6502's, as well > as other machines. This was done in Forth ( both preemptive Yes, I figured that much, but I meant some sort of hardware multitasking, with an MMU like Sun did on MC68k systems. Are there any 6502-based machines that used an MMU for hardware-based multitasking? Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > > >From: "Patrick Finnegan" > > > >On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > >> =====excerpt=2====================== > >> > >> A 6502 task context > >> would therefore require moving about 1KB, which would take about 4,500 > >> instructions (at one instruction per cycle.) On a circa-1980's machine, > >> with a 1MHz clock, that would take about 4.5 msec. > > > >This gives me awfully devious ideas... First, were there any 'multitasking > >machines' designed around the 6502? If you wanted to do multitasking, it > >seems like you could design a fairly simple MMU that would swap out the > >zero-page and stack (or all of the memory pages) for different ones, > >depending on the running task. Leaving only a few registers that need to > >be saved, it would leave a very small overhead for task swapping. You > >could even implement kernel and user mode into the MMU, making it swap > >pages automatically on an interrupt or 'memory write' to signal a syscall > >(and a swapping of pages, interrupt to the CPU and transition to 'kernel > >mode'). > > > >I think I'm going to need to start playing with designing a 6502-based > >machine now... Or maybe I should just get back to working on putting > >machines into racks so I have some floorspace around here to work in. > > > >Pat > >-- > >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > >Information Technology at Purdue > >Research Computing and Storage > >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From dan at ekoan.com Mon Feb 10 22:56:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Question on chip date code In-Reply-To: <4624.4.20.168.230.1044923189.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <1995.4.20.168.230.1044903960.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030210234235.03dfe6e0@enigma> At 04:26 PM 2/10/03 -0800, Eric Smith wrote: > > and 'SN' for Semiconductor Network. The > > second is probably more likely to be correct than the first.. > >That's the first time I've seen any explanation for a TI prefix. I concur with 'SN' standing for 'Semiconductor Network.' From the book "TI Series 54/74 Integrated Circuits", 1966 edition, the Series 54 Bulletin no. DL-5 657921 (August 1965) is entitled "Series 54 Solid Circuit Semiconductor Networks" where "Solid Circuit" is Registered (R) and "Semiconductor Networks" is footnoted as "Patented by Texas Instruments." By the way, the book notes that the first integrated circuit that TI produced was the SN502 in 1960, using mesa (rather than planar) technology. Speaking of old ICs, this past weekend at a hamfest I picked up some old integrated circuits, including a couple of old processors on ceramic plates, two types of 1702 EPROMS, and a couple of mystery chips. I've got some photographs of them up at http://www.decodesystems.com/old-ics.html I also ended up with three HP 5082-7300 LED BCD displays. A Google search indicated at least one supplier, but with a price of more than $40! Does anyone have an idea what the average retail price of these displays were back when HP was still manufacturing them? Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Feb 10 23:38:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Dan's Mystery chips Message-ID: <102.2636419b.2b79e5bf@aol.com> Dan's Pics at http://www.decodesystems.com/old-ics.html The first white mystery chip is General Instruments ROM. A while back someone posted a link to an IC-IDentification database which I downloaded. It has helped me identify some of these older chip logos. The second mystery chip is an EPROM identical to the ones on a S50 card I just sold on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2305518019 Mine were labeled as AMD with an unusual part number. I will leave the pics up for a while longer. Now to go look at Dan's want page.... Paxton Astoria, OR From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Mon Feb 10 23:40:01 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Looking for info on Honeywell core memory In-Reply-To: <20030210171757.A909> References: <20030210171757.A909> Message-ID: <1044942128.2213.6.camel@azure.subsolar> Hmmm the modules look familiar, we used to have a Honeywell 3200 (not sure for certain of the model) at work that we ran till 1988. It used memory modules like that ... I've got a couple I saved as souvenirs. I would have to dig them out of my attic to be sure. We also had three level sixes, one in our main plant and two at other plants. On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 10:17, erikb@digischool.nl wrote: > Can anybody tell me more about this core memory assembly ? > > The assembly consists of three wire-wrapped "BICM9" backplanes, one > of these holds four 8K x 9 core memory boards, the other two contain > several modules with names like "M9INH", "M9SNS" and "M9SEL". > > Logic on the various boards appears to be mixed TTL/DTL (!) in > standard DIL packages, most boards are from 1972. From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Mon Feb 10 23:48:00 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarlet Otter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Dan's Mystery chips In-Reply-To: <102.2636419b.2b79e5bf@aol.com> Message-ID: <3E481B93.11919.1AC56510@localhost> From: Innfogra@aol.com Subject: Dan's Mystery chips To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 00:35:59 EST > Dan's Pics at > http://www.decodesystems.com/old-ics.html > > > The first white mystery chip is General Instruments ROM. Mmmmm...Mystery Chips...Aaaahhhhhggghhhhh... With onion dip... O:) -- Otter (Don't mind me, just in a silly mood tonight due to sleep deprivation...) :) From ggs at shiresoft.com Tue Feb 11 00:59:00 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1044946485.2128.29.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 07:29, Jay West wrote: You've already gotten alot of answers but I'll dup them for completeness... > > First: > It would appear the first 8 or so cards are required to be in certain slots. > Cpu set basically. If I don't have FPP or CIS stuff, those slots get left > blank? Do any grant or jumper type cards need to be there if FPP and CIS > cards aren't present? Do you need to change jumpers/switches on the other > cards that make up the cpu if there is no FPP or CIS? > > After the cpu set comes memory. I know these need to be set for what area of > memory the card is for. But according to the cover on the lid, there is > about 4 slots for memory. Then there is a jumper card that joins the two > backplans, 9300 or 9200 I think. I have an 8 port mux card. I assume it > can't go in the memory slots. So do the empty memory slots (don't have > enough memory cards to fill all 4 slots) neet any kind of grant card? If I > recall correctly, after the memory is the jumper card that joins the two > backplanes... the 8 port mux could go next? And then next I'll put in a > RL01/02 controller. Then there is a buss termination card...I assume that > goes right after the RL01/02, are there any other jumper/termination/grant > cards that need to be in place? > The jumper is an M9202 (or M920 for the short one). The terminator is most likely one of: M930, M9300, M9302 or M9312. The terminator goes in the last slot of the unibus. You may also have to remove a wire from the slot that the DMA device will go into. I don't have the pin #'s right in front of me. But for DMA devices it must be removed or the device can't DMA. It must also be there for empty slots and for devices that don't DMA. The RL11 (M7762) is a DMA device so you need to remove the wire that propagates the request signal so the card can generate DMAs (or NPRs -- Non-Processor Requests). If you want to remove an NPR device, you have to replace the wire (either by re-wirewrapping it or by inserting an M7273 rather than an M727A). The order of the *devices* isn't too important except that if two devices are of the same priority the one physically closer to the processor on the bus will be *higher* than the one further away. > Also, from what I recall of the Qbus stuff I have, the various peripheral > cards need to be set for where they appear in memory, the address of the > card, correct? So.. need to find docs on the 8 port mux and the RL01/02 > controller. > Look on Al's web site. The docs you're looking for are (assume www.spies.com/~ake/pdf/dec prefix): pdp11/1144_SystemTechMan.pdf pdp11/1144UsersGuide.pdf pdp11/DZ11Prog.pdf pdp11/DZ_TechnicalMan.pdf For the RL11 and RL01/RL02 docs, look at these (assume www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp prefix): PDP-11-44/* RL_info/RL02_drive/* RL_info/RL11_controller/* User_Guide/* Unfortunately the stuff on mainecoon is in multipart TIFF which is a bit harder to deal with than PDFs. > I'm looking for just the top cover of the lowboy rack the 11/44 is in, and > another rack of the same exact style to put my two RL02's in. Don't know > what the rack is called, but it's the standard cream colored lowboy rack > that the 11/44 is typically seen in that has an opening in the front door > for the dual TU-58 drive. > The terminology I've heard it called are "Corporate Cabinets". You have the "short" Corporate Cabinet(s). Most of them I've seen have an RL* in the top which does away with the need for a top panel (the CPU is mounted below the drive -- see http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/11-23/11-23.jpg for an example). > Thanks in advance for any guidance! > > Jay West -- TTFN - Guy From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Feb 11 01:04:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Dan's Mystery chips References: <102.2636419b.2b79e5bf@aol.com> Message-ID: <000b01c2d19b$a8ba1a60$0100000a@milkyway> Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > The first white mystery chip is General Instruments ROM. A while back > someone posted a link to an IC-IDentification database which I > downloaded. It has helped me identify some of these older chip logos. Would that happen to have been the IC-ID database program from my website? If so, where is my "Thanks a lot for IC-ID" email? I've clocked about a hundred downloads of it, yet only one person has said thank-you for my work. Only 1%... [rant mode off] Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Technoid at 30below.com Tue Feb 11 01:14:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: asr 33 platen In-Reply-To: <20030211023411.48745.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c2d19d$156c1270$6401a8c0@benchbox> Merch turned me on to Marvel Mystery for yet another use as a rubber restorer for laser printer rollers. It works very well. Just a suggestion.... Regards, jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill Allen Jr Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:34 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: asr 33 platen Good question, french dressing, nah - lol belt dressing - not sure if it even softens the belt but it does swell the belt. armor all - may work - might soften the platen - but it leaves a very slick coating - i wonder if the paper will stay in one place as the platen moves. the type "ball" hammer also has a rubber "button" that slips over it - i know those and the platen were once replacable - try a search for "teletype" on the web. i know the nadcomm meseum http://www.nadcomm.com/ has a link for teletype paper tape and paper on it. the nadcomm page links are near the bottom under the heading "Teletypewriter Supplies" Bill Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 14:51:14 -0700 From: ben franchuk To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: asr 33 platen Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org George R. Gonzalez wrote: > I need some suggestions! Should I try ArmorAll (known to soften rubber, > given time), "Platen cleaner", "belt dressing", "french dressing", or what? I would try 'rubber renue' from M.G. Chemicals. Ben. --__--__-- From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Tue Feb 11 01:18:00 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: What is a HP 98029A Resource Management Interface? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030210194731.13c7c122@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Feb 10, 3 07:47:31 pm Message-ID: <63929.62.148.198.97.1044947728.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk said: > It would take some time to find it to get the model number, but does > anyone recognise it from the description. Could this be used as an SRM > file server? Is it 50960A ? If so, probably. -- jht From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Feb 11 01:40:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Dan's Mystery chips Message-ID: In a message dated 2/10/03 11:03:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, philpem@dsl.pipex.com writes: > Would that happen to have been the IC-ID database program from my website? > Yes, it is. Sorry for the belated thanks but thanks. I use it occasionally and it has helped me identify some of the older chips like Dan's (and mine) General Instrument chips. Thanks for posting the link so long ago, too. Paxton Astoria, OR From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 11 02:57:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:45 2005 Subject: Dan's Mystery chips In-Reply-To: <000b01c2d19b$a8ba1a60$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Would that happen to have been the IC-ID database program from my website? > If so, where is my "Thanks a lot for IC-ID" email? I've clocked about a > hundred downloads of it, yet only one person has said thank-you for my work. Philip, thank you very much for the program! I used it just this morning to ID those chips that I was having date code decoding problems with. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Feb 11 04:52:01 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1044946485.2128.29.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <3E48D510.6030203@Vishay.com> Careful: the M9312 is for the CPU end of the bus, and besides the near-end termination, it provides for diagnostic and boot ROMs, so it is *not* a replacement for the M9302, but it's counterpart for the other end of the bus. As such, the M9312 goes into a MUD slot (*modified* UNIBUS device), which has some pin designations differ from a *standard* UNIBUS slot, which is the reason why the regular terminator (M930 or M9302) needs to go into the last (=standard) slot, not anywhere in between. Hence, the M9312 (designed for MUD slots) must NOT go into the last slot for the same reason. Further, there are some (five? W1 through W5?) jumpers on the M9312 that connect pullup resistors to certain bus lines. There are CPUs for which the jumpers need to be in, other CPUs have equivalent resistors on the CPU boards, so the M9312 jumpers must be out for these. I don't have the details at hand, but can look them up if you don't find the manuals elsewhere. Another near-end terminator and ROM board would be the M9301, but this one doesn't have the pullup resistors. If the /44 needs external pullup, you would be bound to use the M9312. ROM chips are NOT interchangeable between the two boards. Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 07:29, Jay West wrote: ... > The jumper is an M9202 (or M920 for the short one). The terminator is > most likely one of: M930, M9300, M9302 or M9312. The terminator goes in > the last slot of the unibus. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Feb 11 05:26:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Disk drive head locking (DEC RA-82 and HP 7920) References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBADB@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <3E48DD1B.4070301@Vishay.com> Some more hints interspersed... Gooijen H wrote: > Hi Dan. ... > 4) In the middle yoy see the large (black) cilinder > thing. That is the HDA. When you stand in front > of the drive you see a small lever at "6 o clock". > Rotate that level 180 degrees to lock the heads. > You must lift the level at the end a little to be > able to rotate it. On the HDA is a text that tells > you the position of the level. (At least, that is > the case with my *RA81*. The RA82 is quite similar. I don't have one here to look at, but from memory, you can follow the description on the HDA. > 5) At the right hand side, near the chassis plate of > the drive is a handle. This handle releases/sets > the drive belt free/tension to the HDA. > I do not know if the tension should be released > when you transport the drive. If you are not going > to use the drive for say, several months, you could > release the tension to prevent deforming (flatten) > the drive belt at one location. Yes, always release belt tension when the drive is to be transported. You may find four orange mounting brackets that are screwed to the HDA at one end, with the other end hanging free in the air. These are intended to bridge the rubber dampers that support the HDA while the drive is transported, probably to avoid damage to the dampers. > Take care, RA82's are heavy, Yes! For this reason, DEC recommended to remove the HDA from the chassis if you want to lift the drive. This can be done quite easily: release belt tension, pull off the cable at the read amplifier board that is mounted directly to the HDA, then undo the four screws that hold the HDA and lift the HDA out vertically. Take care to put down the HDA at the four pods on the *front* side, never lay it down on it's bottom: you may damage the belt gear and the bearings. Mounting the HDA again does not require any adjustments, you may only want to check belt tension after transporting. The HDA accounts for about 16..17kg of the total weight (>50kg) of the drive, so this helps a bit. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Feb 11 05:56:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: CDs and the rights thereto In-Reply-To: <4897.4.20.168.230.1044903500.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030209231914.00a83ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <20030118034120.66072.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030209231914.00a83ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030211033920.030d9c80@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >In the US? If so, you bought them, and you have a legal right to sell >them. This isn't even subject to any sort of license; the ownership >However, you (or any party to whom you sell the media) might or might >not have any right to *use* the software. This hinges on whether you >can run the software from CD or must first copy it to a hard drive, >[*] The prohibition on software rental was strongly pushed by the >publishers of video game cartridges. The law was passed, but >ironically video game cartridges are exempted and may be rented! This rental thing always puzzled me, I mean whats to stop me from selling something with a no questions asked return with say a $3 restocking fee. It isn't called rental, but I don't see 10 cents difference, or how it could be prohibited. As far as games go, the rights can be weird. I was looking to put up a couple internet game joints, with like 50 high end PCs and a fast connection etc. Turns out you have license the games AS WELL AS BUY THEM, and it aint cheap, ie Blizzard chardges about $5,000 a year for what I planned to do. Regarding the CDs I can say flat out for sure the intellectual property owner can shut down any sales and get pretty nasty along with it. Case in point a CD plant goes belly up and somebody buys a pallet of CDs. Turns out in the pallet of misc there are several hundred Apple Dealer Service CDs with diagnostic software and fully installable OS for all recent machines. Shortly after some bozo bought one and tried to register it with Apple, the Apple Lawyers were all over the poor guy selling them. Auctions make for some weird issues. Leased equipment gets sold, all sorts of snafu. From shirsch at adelphia.net Tue Feb 11 06:09:01 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: <20030210153922.V74340-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Bill Richman wrote: > I used to have one of those cards, along with the manual and software. I > don't know if it made the move with me a couple of years ago or not. If > anybody really wants it, I'll try to dig it up. As I recall from the > manual, it basically just wrote the whole backup to tape 3 times and hoped > for the best. There was no error recovery or search capability because > the PC didn't control the VCR. > > On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Stan Barr wrote: > > > > I certainly remember an ISA card and software combo that did that. > > I could probably find an advert in an old magazine if I did a little > > digging. I'll look later... > If anyone has the software and/or documentation for an Alpha Micro ISA bus backup card, I would like to get my hands on it. Steve From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Feb 11 06:51:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: References: <200302101755.JAA09219@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E48FF27.32167.56FBB53@localhost> > > There was some software multitasking done on 6502's, as well > > as other machines. This was done in Forth ( both preemptive > Yes, I figured that much, but I meant some sort of hardware multitasking, > with an MMU like Sun did on MC68k systems. Are there any 6502-based > machines that used an MMU for hardware-based multitasking? Why? You don't need to have a MMU for multi tasking. MMUs are ment for virtual addressing which is a complete different concept. Of course, it _may_ be halpfull if a multitasking system also offers virtual addressing, but at least for some applications it may even degrade performance. Multitasking means just beeing able to perform several (more or less) independant tasks at teh same time. Basicly you'll have two different methods, cooperative or preemptive. Cooperative means the tasks have to give up at certain points and let others take over. Windows and MacOS are good examples for that. A preemptive system needs a source to interrupt the actual running task (uaualy something liek a timer interrupt), and a way to store the CPU context. everything else is based on the 'operating system' conventions. The smallest preemptive system I've ever seen on the 6502 was published in one of the early MICROs. It took 8 bytes of ZP RAM to run 7 tasks. Context switching was done via the stack, where every task got his own area. IAll you needed was a timer interrupt. It was originaly written for the KIM, but easy to adapt for any 6502 sytem. I did get it working on the Apple II. BASIC/DOS 3.3 as one task, the Monitor as second task (with a little change to work via serial line), so I could debug a programm live. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Feb 11 07:04:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBE7@lif015.vtmerlin.com> Why? You don't need to have a MMU for multi tasking. MMUs are ment for virtual addressing which is a complete different concept. They are also used for address translation and memory protection. Both usefull functions in a multitasking system and both needed to implement virtual memory Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From joe_web at worldonline.fr Tue Feb 11 07:37:00 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: dongle ! References: Message-ID: <000901c2d1d2$f980cb60$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> hello, i search a dongle for a "Avid XpressDV" program. where can i found it? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 11 07:46:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? In-Reply-To: <20030211020504.11644.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <20030211134410.19961.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ken Seefried wrote: > I've got a couple of ELT-320s. The PS brick says Model PSA-124, input > 110v-240v@1.5A, output 12v@4.2A. Woof! That's beefier than I expected. The data sheet says that it draws 25W for which I expected a 2.5A - 3.0A PSU. I have a couple of unboxed switching supplies that are 12V-only (eliminating the problem of PeeCee supplies and dummy loads)... probably start there. It'll be nice to get a semi-portable supply of some kind, though. I want to haul this thing to the servers in a laptop case. > Hmmm...I'm in on the sbc6120. I was actually thinking of building it > into a terminal case... Plenty of room in a VT-100... kinda like a DECmate I. I was thinking of rackmounting my second one in a 1U case - I have these old DEC 12U (21" tall) formica-topped enclosures that originally came with PDP-11s in them (11/03 + RX01) Plenty of room for anything else I'd want, and a place to put the terminal on top. -ethan From allain at panix.com Tue Feb 11 08:52:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: "Welt am Draht" References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1044946485.2128.29.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <008001c2d1dc$b7d20580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Anybody on the list have a copy of Fassbinder's +ACI-Welt am Draht+ACI- / +ACI-World on a Wire+ACI- that I can borrow for viewing? Alternately, have any of the Europeans on the list heard of plans to release this on DVD? Important and on topic since this may be the first occurrence of VR in film. John A. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 11 09:09:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: More 11/44 basic newbie help request References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3487.4.20.168.230.1044903584.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <009801c2d1de$d7164120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Eric wrote... > Get the manuals from Al's site. You know... I think I've just been told "RTFM" *grin* S'ok, was well deserved :) After perusing the manuals for the 11/44 and the RL02's, and the RL11 (looking for docs on the 8 port mux now).... Most of my questions are answered there (big suprise). Not trying to start any holy wars or anything, but to my "newbie with unibus" mind, the design of having to change backplane wiring for certain cards seems to be rather... ummmm silly (euphamism{tm}), at least as compared to other systems of the period. Probably there is something I'm missing as to why this is a good thing. There are a few areas that I'm not quite sure I get what the manual is saying though, perhaps others can clarify WRT card positioning & requirements. Regarding the unibus terminator card...M9302 - everyone says "the last slot of the unibus". Does this mean physically the last slot in the backplane, or "logically the last slot of the unibus" meaning after the last card? I'm guessing the former, because it sounds like the last slot of the backplane has different wiring, and hence the need for lots-o-grant-cards. The manual states that for each open SPC slot, you have to use a grant card. But it's a little unclear as to "SPC" slot. In the "main" backplane, there is a hex SPC slot and a quad? SPC slot after the memory, the AB spots on the 2nd SPC slot being for the 9202 jumper card. This gives rise to a few questions: If the last 2 slots in the "main" backplane are for SPC, are the remaining slots (in the 2nd backplane, AFTER the 9202 jumper) SPC slots? I assume you need a grant card in the hex SPC slot if nothing is there. But what about the quad SPC slot that also has the 9202 in it - does that slot need a grant card too? And about the 1st slot in the 2nd backplane that has the other side of the 9202 in it - that needs a grant card as well? I'm assuming it does... So in the example where you have no cards at all in the 2nd backplane except the initial 9202 and the final 9302 at the other end.. you must have a grant in every one of those open slots? If so, ummm I need a bunch of grant cards! Anyone have some to trade? I think that's the main questions - the rest makes pretty good sense and is fairly clear in the manual. Thanks a bunch! Jay West From kth at srv.net Tue Feb 11 10:02:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: More 11/44 basic newbie help request References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3487.4.20.168.230.1044903584.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <009801c2d1de$d7164120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E492365.7000202@srv.net> Jay West wrote: >Eric wrote... > > >>Get the manuals from Al's site. >> >> > >You know... I think I've just been told "RTFM" *grin* >S'ok, was well deserved :) > >After perusing the manuals for the 11/44 and the RL02's, and the RL11 >(looking for docs on the 8 port mux now).... Most of my questions are >answered there (big suprise). Not trying to start any holy wars or anything, >but to my "newbie with unibus" mind, the design of having to change >backplane wiring for certain cards seems to be rather... ummmm silly >(euphamism{tm}), at least as compared to other systems of the period. >Probably there is something I'm missing as to why this is a good thing. >There are a few areas that I'm not quite sure I get what the manual is >saying though, perhaps others can clarify WRT card positioning & >requirements. > >Regarding the unibus terminator card...M9302 - everyone says "the last slot >of the unibus". Does this mean physically the last slot in the backplane, or >"logically the last slot of the unibus" meaning after the last card? I'm >guessing the former, because it sounds like the last slot of the backplane >has different wiring, and hence the need for lots-o-grant-cards. > >The manual states that for each open SPC slot, you have to use a grant card. >But it's a little unclear as to "SPC" slot. In the "main" backplane, there >is a hex SPC slot and a quad? SPC slot after the memory, the AB spots on the >2nd SPC slot being for the 9202 jumper card. This gives rise to a few >questions: If the last 2 slots in the "main" backplane are for SPC, are the >remaining slots (in the 2nd backplane, AFTER the 9202 jumper) SPC slots? I >assume you need a grant card in the hex SPC slot if nothing is there. But >what about the quad SPC slot that also has the 9202 in it - does that slot >need a grant card too? And about the 1st slot in the 2nd backplane that has >the other side of the 9202 in it - that needs a grant card as well? I'm >assuming it does... > >So in the example where you have no cards at all in the 2nd backplane except >the initial 9202 and the final 9302 at the other end.. you must have a grant >in every one of those open slots? If so, ummm I need a bunch of grant cards! >Anyone have some to trade? > I believe that the backplane has the grant jumpered, and you have to remove this wire if you want to put a card that uses that signal. That means you don't have to fill your backplane with grant cards if you have the jumpers still on. > >I think that's the main questions - the rest makes pretty good sense and is >fairly clear in the manual. Thanks a bunch! From Technoid at 30below.com Tue Feb 11 10:21:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: More 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <009801c2d1de$d7164120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000901c2d1e9$7a6bde70$6401a8c0@benchbox> I thought it was silly too when I first laid eyes on such a system, but after some experience with it, I understand why. There may be other reasons as well, but here's my take on it. No one knew just what they or other folks were going to hang in these backplanes, or what functions those cards would perform. If they had known, it would have been pretty simple to provide a set of jumpers or some other (easier) means of moving signals around, but they didn't so they went for total flexibility in this department and so required jumper wiring. Some card slots don't carry certain signals over to the next slot down the line if there is no card installed in that slot. For example. If you have an hdd controller in slot A, a blank slot B, and a serial terminal controller in slot C, my machine wouldn't work at all. In this scenario, I would have to bridge the blank slot B by jumping two signals (IRQ and XSTL?) from A to C in order for those two critical signals to propagate past the blank slot. You might wonder why they would omit two of the most important lines from the backplane like that. Well, it is flexibility in mind here. With this method, you could have card's B and C connected via ribbon cable at their leading edges to carry the signal from B to C for use and then have card C propagate the signals over the backplane after they've served their purpose. You could even bring those signals outside the machine entirely to some specialized equipment before returning them to the backplane via a card. In this way, you could largely replace the backplane with your own custom wire job. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay West Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:04 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: More 11/44 basic newbie help request Eric wrote... > Get the manuals from Al's site. You know... I think I've just been told "RTFM" *grin* S'ok, was well deserved :) After perusing the manuals for the 11/44 and the RL02's, and the RL11 (looking for docs on the 8 port mux now).... Most of my questions are answered there (big suprise). Not trying to start any holy wars or anything, but to my "newbie with unibus" mind, the design of having to change backplane wiring for certain cards seems to be rather... ummmm silly (euphamism{tm}), at least as compared to other systems of the period. Probably there is something I'm missing as to why this is a good thing. Jay West From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Feb 11 10:23:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBE7@lif015.vtmerlin.com> Message-ID: <3E493102.534.632780C@localhost> > Why? You don't need to have a MMU for multi tasking. > MMUs are ment for virtual addressing which is a > complete different concept. > They are also used for address translation and memory > protection. Both usefull functions in a multitasking > system and both needed to implement virtual memory Virtual addressing always includes address translation. And Memory protection is again not necersary part of a MMU, and also not needed for multitasking nor virtual addressing. It's a nice feature, but so is reentrant coding and a hardware stack. The basics for virtual memory in a real systems is a way to translate a programm address (virtual ones) into a physical (*1) memory address, a way to detect access to a not allocated address and a way to restart the access issueing instruction. For translation a simple unit consisting of a RAM whose address is taken from some bits of the CPU (virtual) address, and the data output is connected to the physical address lines. The number of lines taken to address the translation RAM defines the block size, while the nuber of data bits used as replacement (times block size) defines the maximum physical address space - which may larger or smaller than virtual (*1) Now we have already virtual addressing - in this way every address desoding is already a form of virtual addressing, since you assign CPU addresses to physical memory addresses. Next step is detecting address faults. This can be done either by a seperate on bit wide RAM with a tag to define for every virual address block the state (valid/not valid), or by defineing a unique value which is used as not assigned. A usefull combination could be all bits high, so all we need is a NAND gate to produce a /invalid signal as soon as the CPU accesses a not allocated page. In either way the result is used to generate an interupt to tell the CPU about the address violation. Last but not least the interupt function has to compute the faulting page, see what's necersary here (depending on OS and allocation status either task termination or loading the page from some swap device int physical memory and modifying th translation table), and if needed analyzeing the last instruction and restarting it. I haven't seen anything about memory protection in here and I haven't seen anything about multitasking either. Gruss H. (*1) Often the term real memory is used, but that's not correct. Physical memory is the memory installed in a machine, while real address space is the addressable amount of RAM by a CPU without using virtual addressing. Virtual address space can never excede real address space (After all, it's the maximum address range generated by the (logical) CPU), while physical memory can go beyond real or virual address space. (*2) Most people thinks about virtual addressing as a way to extend available memory beyond physical memory. A scheme used by simple unix systems, and early mainframes. More often than not, virtual addressing is used to extend the CPU address space to handle a larger REAL memory than the CPU could manage otherwise. Already since the early 80s, IBM compatible mainframes allow real memory to go way beyond the 24 (or later 31 Bit) address space of the (user visible) CPU. For example we had did use in 1984 a CPU with 64 meg of RAM while the CPU address space was only 16 meg (only 12 meg user address space). Before the new 64 bit extension, actual mainframes often had a physical memory of more than 100 GByte, but only a CPU address space of up to 2 gig (31 Bit addressing). The 64 Bit extension offered a way to manipulate a larger address space on user level. Except for very early systems, where memory was extreme expensive, this was also the same for 8 Bit CPUs. Physical memory did exeed the address space of the CPU. So memory management for 8-Biters was a way to manage more than 64K for a CPU which could only address 64K. Things like pageing, or page faults where never an issue. I guess everyone remembers CPM 3.0 and it's management scheme. Virtual addressing without pageing or multi tasking. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From knightstalkerbob at netscape.net Tue Feb 11 10:38:00 2003 From: knightstalkerbob at netscape.net (Bob Mason) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. Message-ID: <161F160E.3FBC61E0.CF1A260E@netscape.net> "Andrew Strouse" wrote: >Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular electronics, about software that >would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I think it was about 10 >years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything about this. My searches on >google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help you can provide! > >Andrew Strouse > There was also a hardware/software solution for the Amiga platform, found on Aminet in the disk/bakup dir, VBackup016.lha. "Some days ago I got a message from the german distributor of the "VideoBackupSystem" (Performance Peripherals Europe). They told me, that they think, VBackup looks so similar to the VBS (especialy due to the usage of the same hardware) that VBackup is a violation of the VBS copyright." I may have the older file that has the schematics & software still archived somewhere. -- Bob Mason 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, 'ME, 128meg, 20Gig & 40Gig, flatbed. Heathkit H-89A, 64K RAM, hard and soft-sectored floppies, SigmaSoft and Systems 256K RAM Drive/Print Spooler/Graphics board HDOS 2 & CP/M 2.2.03/2.2.04 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 11 11:10:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Unibus NPR jumpers (was RE: More 11/44 basic newbie help request) In-Reply-To: <000901c2d1e9$7a6bde70$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <20030211170749.79103.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Jeffrey S. Worley" wrote: > No one knew just what they or other folks were going to hang in these > backplanes, or what functions those cards would perform. If they had > known, it would have been pretty simple to provide a set of jumpers or > some other (easier) means of moving signals around, but they didn't so > they went for total flexibility in this department and so required > jumper wiring. I think you need to go back in time a bit and consider the original Unibus processors, like the 11/20. It doesn't have single-card periperals, it has peripherals with their own custom-wired backplanes. The Unibus-in and Unibus-out slots were standardized, but in between, it was up to the designer. There's lots of consistency in DEC peripherals - they tended to use M105s and other "standard" Unibus modules, but that wasn't an absolute requirement. In those days, to initiate an NPR cycle (i.e., start a DMA operation), the peripheral broke the connection of the NPR signal between the Unibus-in and Unibus-out slots. When boards began to get more dense and it was finally possible to put an entire peripheral on a single card, these peripherals couldn't operate the same way. The new method was to break the signal between a pair of pins on the same slot. It wasn't possible to ship all new backplanes (like the DD11DK) without the NPR jumper removed because there were some early non-DMA periperals (like the line-printer interface) that may or may not jumper that signal on their own. So... going back at least as far as 1981 (the earliest Unibus COMBOARDs), makers of NPR devices had to provide instructions for the customer on how to locate, remove and replace the NPR jumper wire. We also shipped a wider grant card (the "Grantasaurus Rex" - GC747) so that our customers didn't have to rewire the backplane when our board was not installed. I was told that the original scheme existed because nobody planned for a DMA peripheral that occupied only a single slot - too much hardware to fit in such a small space. It did take a number of years, so the expectation wasn't that unreasonable. -ethan > > Some card slots don't carry certain signals over to the next slot down > the line if there is no card installed in that slot. > > For example. If you have an hdd controller in slot A, a blank slot B, > and a serial terminal controller in slot C, my machine wouldn't work at > all. In this scenario, I would have to bridge the blank slot B by > jumping two signals (IRQ and XSTL?) from A to C in order for those two > critical signals to propagate past the blank slot. > > You might wonder why they would omit two of the most important lines > from the backplane like that. Well, it is flexibility in mind here. > With this method, you could have card's B and C connected via ribbon > cable at their leading edges to carry the signal from B to C for use and > then have card C propagate the signals over the backplane after they've > served their purpose. You could even bring those signals outside the > machine entirely to some specialized equipment before returning them to > the backplane via a card. In this way, you could largely replace the > backplane with your own custom wire job. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Jay West > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:04 AM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: More 11/44 basic newbie help request > > Eric wrote... > > Get the manuals from Al's site. > > You know... I think I've just been told "RTFM" *grin* > S'ok, was well deserved :) > > After perusing the manuals for the 11/44 and the RL02's, and the RL11 > (looking for docs on the 8 port mux now).... Most of my questions are > answered there (big suprise). Not trying to start any holy wars or > anything, > but to my "newbie with unibus" mind, the design of having to change > backplane wiring for certain cards seems to be rather... ummmm silly > (euphamism{tm}), at least as compared to other systems of the period. > Probably there is something I'm missing as to why this is a good thing. > > > Jay West From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 11 13:08:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: was: Re: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: <20030210182029.GA29011@kotol.kotelna.sk> References: <00cc01c2d12f$86027010$10491c43@amscomputer> <20030210182029.GA29011@kotol.kotelna.sk> Message-ID: <2995.4.20.168.230.1044990334.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > similiar question goes for mini-discs, were there any efforts anytime to > use 140mb (?) minidisc as an external storage? Sony sold "MD-Data" drives. Sony claimed that it would replace floppy discs. (Amazing how many things were predicted to do that yet didn't.) The drives were very pricey, which of course prevented widespread adoption. I can only imagine that some brilliant person in Sony's marketing department must have been thinking "we can push these as a floppy drive replacement, sell them to OEMs to be put in every PC, and make $150 on each unit". Anyhow, you were probably asking about trying to record data on an audio MD recorder, perhaps by using the optical digital input. Although it's sort of possible, the problem is the lossy audio compression. You'd have to come up with a way to encode the data such that it has audio characteristics that will pass through the encoder. Of course, the exact operation of the coder (ATRAC?) is a trade secret of Sony, so this will be difficult. By the time all's said and done, I doubt that you could get more than about 20 MB on the disc in this manner, and it would take over an hour to record that. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 11 13:15:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <3E48D510.6030203@Vishay.com> References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1044946485.2128.29.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <3E48D510.6030203@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <1569.4.20.168.230.1044990762.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Careful: the M9312 is for the CPU end of the bus, and besides the > near-end termination, it provides for diagnostic and boot ROMs, so it is > *not* a replacement for the M9302, but it's counterpart for the other > end of the bus. > > As such, the M9312 goes into a MUD slot (*modified* UNIBUS device), > which has some pin designations differ from a *standard* UNIBUS slot, > which is the reason why the regular terminator (M930 or M9302) needs to > go into the last (=standard) slot, not anywhere in between. Hence, the > M9312 (designed for MUD slots) must NOT go into the last slot for the > same reason. An M9312 will work just fine in a normal Unibus slot at the far end. However, you are correct that this is now how the 11/44 is supposed to be configured. The near-end Unibus terminator slot is NOT an MUD slot. On an 11/44 it does have a few signals different than a normal Unibus slot, but they are different than a MUD slot also. From spc at conman.org Tue Feb 11 13:19:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: <3E493102.534.632780C@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 11, 2003 05:21:06 PM Message-ID: <200302111916.OAA07599@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Hans Franke once stated: > > (*1) Often the term real memory is used, but that's > not correct. Physical memory is the memory installed > in a machine, while real address space is the addressable > amount of RAM by a CPU without using virtual addressing. > Virtual address space can never excede real address space > (After all, it's the maximum address range generated by > the (logical) CPU), while physical memory can go beyond > real or virual address space. Virtual address space *can* exceed physical address space---the 80386 (and therefore, on topic) is a good example. A segmented architecture, the segment registers use 14 bits [1] as an index into a table giving the physical address, while each segment can be 4G in size. 14+32 gives you a 46-bit logical address, meaning you can virtually address 64 terrabytes in the whole system; a bit more than just the 4G physical address space the chip puts out. Now, are there systems that take advantage of this? That, I don't know---I know that most OS that use the 386 (and above) skip the segments and use a flat virtual address space (with the paging unit that the 386 also has) but there could be the odd-ball OS that uses the segmentation as well. -spc (And attempting to use all 64TB would probably cosume huge amounts of physical RAM just for the lookup tables ... ) [1] 13 bits make the actual offset, with one bit set aside for a global-wide table, or a process-local table of segment/physical addresses. For all intended purposes, this gives you 14 bits of address space. From dmabry at mich.com Tue Feb 11 13:27:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: was: Re: VHS Tapes as storage. References: <00cc01c2d12f$86027010$10491c43@amscomputer> <20030210182029.GA29011@kotol.kotelna.sk> <2995.4.20.168.230.1044990334.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E494DF8.5010300@mich.com> I'm curious, Eric. I have a Sony MD-Data disk drive, and actually considered using them for certain applications. It uses a SCSI interface. I can't remember Sony ever predicting them to replace the floppy. Do you happen to have any references that you can direct me to that states that? I never heard of a version of that drive that used IDE or floppy type interfaces. Were there? Thanks. Eric Smith wrote: >>similiar question goes for mini-discs, were there any efforts anytime to >>use 140mb (?) minidisc as an external storage? > > > Sony sold "MD-Data" drives. Sony claimed that it would replace > floppy discs. (Amazing how many things were predicted to do that yet > didn't.) The drives were very pricey, which of course prevented > widespread adoption. I can only imagine that some brilliant person > in Sony's marketing department must have been thinking "we can push > these as a floppy drive replacement, sell them to OEMs to be put in > every PC, and make $150 on each unit". > > Anyhow, you were probably asking about trying to record data on an > audio MD recorder, perhaps by using the optical digital input. Although > it's sort of possible, the problem is the lossy audio compression. You'd > have to come up with a way to encode the data such that it has audio > characteristics that will pass through the encoder. Of course, the > exact operation of the coder (ATRAC?) is a trade secret of Sony, so > this will be difficult. By the time all's said and done, I doubt that > you could get more than about 20 MB on the disc in this manner, and it > would take over an hour to record that. > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 11 13:28:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: CDs and the rights thereto In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030211033920.030d9c80@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030209231914.00a83ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <20030118034120.66072.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030209231914.00a83ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030211033920.030d9c80@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <1285.4.20.168.230.1044991558.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Regarding the CDs I can say flat out for sure the intellectual property > owner can shut down any sales and get pretty nasty along with it. Not normally. > Case > in point a CD plant goes belly up and somebody buys a pallet of CDs. > Turns out in the pallet of misc there are several hundred Apple Dealer > Service CDs with diagnostic software and fully installable OS for all > recent machines. Shortly after some bozo bought one and tried to > register it with Apple, the Apple Lawyers were all over the poor guy > selling them. If they were made under contract to Apple, they are Apple property and shouldn't have been sold at the liquidation. So they may legally be stolen property. This is a general problem, not a copyright issue. This is MUCH different from the more common case where the publisher scraps a pallet of finished goods, or a distributor or dealer does. In such a case, the publisher may attempt to suppress sales, but has no legal ground to do so. If the publisher is smart about how they scrap stuff, they can contractually require the buyer to destroy the material. In that case, if the buyer resells the CDs, the buyer (but not the end user) is liable for damages. > Auctions make for some weird issues. Leased equipment gets sold, all > sorts of snafu. Which is why leasing companies that are smart affix labels to leased equipment saying things like "Subject to a security interest in favor of and/or owned by
" (seen on one of our laser printers at work). However, there are many leasing companies that don't do this, which is mind-boggling. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 11 13:40:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: More 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <009801c2d1de$d7164120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3487.4.20.168.230.1044903584.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <009801c2d1de$d7164120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3038.4.20.168.230.1044992276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jay wrote: > Not trying to start any holy wars or > anything, but to my "newbie with unibus" mind, the design of having to > change backplane wiring for certain cards seems to be rather... ummmm > silly (euphamism{tm}), at least as compared to other systems of the > period. Of course, they expected this to be taken care of by field service, not the end user. But the obvious alternatives were: 1) Require the use of jumper modules in all otherwise empty SPC slots. This seems reasonable but in the early Unibus days they only had the short G727 jumpers which didn't pass the NPR signals because they only went into one slot. The later G7273 modules do pass NPR, and are more convenient because they are full length modules with a handle. 2) Design a modified connector that shorts the grant in and out contacts together when no card is inserted. Presumably they didn't want to invest in a new connector block design, and have to worry about stocking another type and making sure that the right type was used in the right location. 3) Put active electronics on the backplane to detect the absence of a card and pass the grant. Probably deemed too expensive when Unibus was designed back in 1969 or so. > Probably there is something I'm missing as to why this is a good > thing. Not especially. On my Unibus machines, I normally cut the grant jumpers on all the SPC slots, and use G7273 cards in the otherwise empty slots. > Regarding the unibus terminator card...M9302 - everyone says "the last > slot of the unibus". Does this mean physically the last slot in the > backplane, or "logically the last slot of the unibus" meaning after the > last card? Physically the last slot. > The manual states that for each open SPC slot, you have to use a grant > card. But it's a little unclear as to "SPC" slot. In the "main" > backplane, there is a hex SPC slot and a quad? SPC slot after the > memory, the AB spots on the 2nd SPC slot being for the 9202 jumper card. > This gives rise to a few questions: If the last 2 slots in the "main" > backplane are for SPC, are the remaining slots (in the 2nd backplane, > AFTER the 9202 jumper) SPC slots? That depends on what the 2nd backplane is. If it's just a DD11-CK or DD11-DK generic SPC backplane, yes, you need grant cards. If it's a specialized System Unit backplane, such as an RH11, RK11, etc., you'll need to find out for that specific backplane. > I assume you need a grant card in the > hex SPC slot if nothing is there. But what about the quad SPC slot that > also has the 9202 in it - does that slot need a grant card too? Yes. > And > about the 1st slot in the 2nd backplane that has the other side of the > 9202 in it - that needs a grant card as well? I'm assuming it does... Again, that depends on the backplane. For a DD11-CK or DD11-DK, all the slots are SPC, so they all need grant cards. > So in the example where you have no cards at all in the 2nd backplane > except the initial 9202 and the final 9302 at the other end.. you must > have a grant in every one of those open slots? If so, ummm I need a > bunch of grant cards! Anyone have some to trade? If you don't have any cards in the second backplane, take out the Unibus jumper and install the terminator in its place. From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Feb 11 14:05:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: New Find: SGI Iris 4D/80 Message-ID: I picked up an Iris 4D/80 'deskside' monster, sans drives, with digital video I/O capabilites and 'analog' video output and 'VTR' control today from Purdue Salvage. I don't have a whole lot of documentation on the system (well, basically none), and about all I do know is that the processor board seems to be filled with RAM and it has BNC jacks on the back panel for connection to a monitor. Can anyone tell me what versions of IRIX might work with this system and/or where to pick up a copy? I'd love to see if I could get this thing running again. Thanks, Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 11 14:42:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502) In-Reply-To: <200302111916.OAA07599@conman.org> Message-ID: <20030211203934.94122.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Hans Franke once stated: > > > > (*1) Often the term real memory is used, but that's > > not correct. Physical memory is the memory installed > > in a machine, while real address space is the addressable > > amount of RAM by a CPU without using virtual addressing. > > Virtual address space can never excede real address space > > (After all, it's the maximum address range generated by > > the (logical) CPU), while physical memory can go beyond > > real or virual address space. > > Virtual address space *can* exceed physical address space---the 80386 > (and therefore, on topic) is a good example. And typically does (VAX-11/750 - 14MB physical max, 4GB virtual space), but not always (PDP-11 - 4MB physical max, 64KB process space, described in the literature as virtual space since the CPU has 16-bit address registers) > A segmented architecture... I have one word to say about segmented architecture... "Ewwwww" -ethan From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Feb 11 14:57:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: New Find: SGI Iris 4D/80 In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "New Find: SGI Iris 4D/80" (Feb 11, 15:07) References: Message-ID: <10302112055.ZM20820@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 11, 15:07, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I picked up an Iris 4D/80 'deskside' monster, sans drives, with digital > video I/O capabilites and 'analog' video output and 'VTR' control today > from Purdue Salvage. I don't have a whole lot of documentation on the > system (well, basically none), and about all I do know is that the > processor board seems to be filled with RAM and it has BNC jacks on the > back panel for connection to a monitor. > > Can anyone tell me what versions of IRIX might work with this system > and/or where to pick up a copy? I'd love to see if I could get this thing > running again. It should be capable of running IRIX 5.3, but unless it's unusual and has more than 16MB of RAM, you'd be better off with 4.0.5 (last version was 4.0.5f). Also the graphics may not be supported fully in 5.3, depending on what options you've got. A useful place to start looking for information is the 4DFAQ (also known as "This Old SGI") which you'll find at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2258/4dfaq.html Don't forget the comp.sys.sgi.* newsgroups, there are a few people there who either have or fondly remember the 4D series and can help. Look on Ebay (yes, really) for IRIX. 5.3 is more common than 4.0.5 but they do appear fom time to time. I have a 4.0.5 CD which I'd offer to copy, but some kind soul scratched it rather badly and it won't read now :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dholland at woh.rr.com Tue Feb 11 16:01:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: New Find: SGI Iris 4D/80 In-Reply-To: <10302112055.ZM20820@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10302112055.ZM20820@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1045000746.25058.30.camel@crusader> I'm not certain applicable this is over on your side of the pond... But, have you tried one of these doo-hicky's on the disc? http://www.bestbuy.com/Detail.asp?m=58&cat=645&scat=&e=11087821 I suspect there aren't too many, BestBuy's over there, but I've heard good things about those SkipDoctors. (Haven't had need of one myself quiet yet) David On Tue, 2003-02-11 at 15:55, Peter Turnbull wrote: > > Look on Ebay (yes, really) for IRIX. 5.3 is more common than 4.0.5 but > they do appear fom time to time. I have a 4.0.5 CD which I'd offer to > copy, but some kind soul scratched it rather badly and it won't read > now :-( > > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From mark at ecl.us Tue Feb 11 16:03:01 2003 From: mark at ecl.us (Mark Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? In-Reply-To: <20030210021523.43578.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030210021523.43578.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1045004333.29551.163.camel@Glass> Looking at back of unit. Power connector is 6 pin din closest to power switch. +12 volts is connected to two pins closest to power switch with ground connected to two pins furthest away from power switch. 5 pin DIN is for a PC AT style keyboard. Next connector over (RJ style) is also for a keyboard (Digital LK401). Unit accepts either type of keyboard. Using a regular AT style keyboard the "end" key functions as the "page up" key in the setup screens. BTW F3 brings up the setup screen. Mark On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 18:15, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Second time around, I won an ELT-320 on ePay... unfortunately, this one > has no PSU. Could one of the owners of one on this list e-mail me > the pinouts? From the auction I _didn't_ win, it appears that it > takes +12VDC @ 2.5A. The question is how/where. The picture seems > to suggest that's it's via a DIN-5 connector at the corner of the > back side. > > Thanks for any help. > > -ethan From allain at panix.com Tue Feb 11 17:18:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: "Welt am Draht" References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1044946485.2128.29.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <008001c2d1dc$b7d20580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002401c2d223$7d4ecdc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Anybody on the list have a copy of Fassbinder's "Welt am Draht" / "World on a Wire" that I can borrow for viewing? Alternately, have any of the Europeans on the list heard of plans to release this on DVD? Important and on topic since this may be the first occurrence of VR in film. John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 11 18:29:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Looking for info on Honeywell core memory In-Reply-To: <20030210171757.A909> from "erikb@digischool.nl" at Feb 10, 3 05:17:57 pm Message-ID: > Can anybody tell me more about this core memory assembly ? > > The assembly consists of three wire-wrapped "BICM9" backplanes, one > of these holds four 8K x 9 core memory boards, the other two contain > several modules with names like "M9INH", "M9SNS" and "M9SEL". I've never seen this unit, but I'd guess that the 'INH' board is the Inhibit driver (bascially data write), the 'SNS' board is the Sense amplifier (data read) and the 'SEL' board is the Select circuit (address). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 11 18:30:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: What is a HP 98029A Resource Management Interface? In-Reply-To: <63929.62.148.198.97.1044947728.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> from "Jarkko Teppo" at Feb 11, 3 09:15:28 am Message-ID: > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk said: > > > It would take some time to find it to get the model number, but does > > anyone recognise it from the description. Could this be used as an SRM > > file server? > > Is it 50960A ? If so, probably. Yes, that's it. I've just dug it out of of my pile... The mainboard contains a 64 pin DIL CPU (almost certainly a 68000 or 68010), a 68440 DMA chip, 1TL1 HPIB interface + buffers, 68681 serial chip, 512K DRAM, a couple of ROMs and TTL glue Mine contains 3 expansion cards : 50962A SRM Coax Interface -- Z80A CPU, Z80A SIO, Z80A CTC, 8K SRAM, ROM< TTL glue, some AMD analogue chip that seems to connect to the network connecotr (BNC) Human Interface (HPIB, HP-HIL, speaker connectors) -- 1RD2 HP-HIL chip, 9114 HPIB + buffers, 76494 sound chip (!), Intel microcontroller (8042?) 98204A Compoaite Video -- 6845, 2K SRAM, a couple of EPROMs, lots of TTL. One day I'll find the time to investigate it fully... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 11 18:31:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: More 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <009801c2d1de$d7164120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Feb 11, 3 09:04:13 am Message-ID: > Eric wrote... > > Get the manuals from Al's site. > > You know... I think I've just been told "RTFM" *grin* > S'ok, was well deserved :) > > After perusing the manuals for the 11/44 and the RL02's, and the RL11 > (looking for docs on the 8 port mux now).... Most of my questions are > answered there (big suprise). Not trying to start any holy wars or anything, > but to my "newbie with unibus" mind, the design of having to change > backplane wiring for certain cards seems to be rather... ummmm silly > (euphamism{tm}), at least as compared to other systems of the period. The Unibus got one thing very right. It allowed multiple devices to share BR (interrupt) and the NPR (DMA) lines. Anyone who's battled with the ISA bus will certainly appreciate this. The various devices on each line are assigned priorities by how 'far' they are from the CPU. The device nearest to the CPU (strictly the arbiter) is the highest, etc. The way this works is very simple. A device asserts the appropriate request line (this line is bussed to all devices). The arbiter asserts the appropriate grant line, which is not bussed. Instead it's connected to the first device. The first device then passes the grant on to the second, and so on. Devices actually asserting the request line (there could be more than one) don't pass on the grant, so that devices further away from the CPU than the first device trying to cause an interrupt never see the grant. This works very well, but it has one problem. You can't have empty slots in the backplane. Instead you have to insert grant continuity cards to link the grant-in to grant-out lines on unused slots, so as to pass on the grant. There are 5 grants on the Unibus, 4 for interrupts (BG) and one for DMA (NPG). Originally, there were no single-card DMA devices -- DMA devices were complete backplanes that you connected into the unibus chain. Therefore the original grant cards only handled the BG lines. Later on, single-card DMA devices became possible, and the NPG line was connected to pins CA1 and CB1 on the normal SPC (Small Peripheral Controller) slot. Hwever, there's a problem in that the older grant cards didn't connect these 2 pins together. Worse than that, nor did any of the older SPC I/O cards. So there had to be another way of linking them together on an empty slot. And that's the wire-wrap jumper I mentioned.There is a later dual-height grant continuity card that does connect the NPG lines as well, but you still have to know how to do the wire-wrap version since any older non-DMA cards (DL11, PC11, etc) require it. > > Regarding the unibus terminator card...M9302 - everyone says "the last slot > of the unibus". Does this mean physically the last slot in the backplane, or Physically the last (leftmost) slot. The other slots may well be wired slightly differently)!. [OK, I know there are exceptions to this, the VT11 being the obvious one, where the terminator goes somewhere totally different, but let's keep this simple for the moment). > "logically the last slot of the unibus" meaning after the last card? I'm > guessing the former, because it sounds like the last slot of the backplane > has different wiring, and hence the need for lots-o-grant-cards. Yes. > > The manual states that for each open SPC slot, you have to use a grant card. > But it's a little unclear as to "SPC" slot. In the "main" backplane, there > is a hex SPC slot and a quad? SPC slot after the memory, the AB spots on the > 2nd SPC slot being for the 9202 jumper card. This gives rise to a few > questions: If the last 2 slots in the "main" backplane are for SPC, are the > remaining slots (in the 2nd backplane, AFTER the 9202 jumper) SPC slots? I Yes. SPC = Small Peripheral Controller. 'Normal' backplanes, meaning ones that weren't designed for specific multi-card peripherals (like the RK11-D, RK611) are all SPC slots. > assume you need a grant card in the hex SPC slot if nothing is there. But > what about the quad SPC slot that also has the 9202 in it - does that slot > need a grant card too? And about the 1st slot in the 2nd backplane that has > the other side of the 9202 in it - that needs a grant card as well? I'm > assuming it does... Yes. The SPC part is strictly the front 4 connectors only. The rear 2 connecotrs -- A and B -- are either MUD (Modified Unibus Device, used for some memory cards) or plain Unibus in/out, or even something stranger. The front 4 connectors of the last slot and first slot on your backplanes are part of the grant chain and need the continuity cards (and NPG jumpers) > > So in the example where you have no cards at all in the 2nd backplane except > the initial 9202 and the final 9302 at the other end.. you must have a grant > in every one of those open slots? If so, ummm I need a bunch of grant cards! Yep, except of course you'd not do that. You'd pull the M920 jumper and put the terminator in the last slot of the CPU backplane. -tony From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Feb 11 18:31:17 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: "Welt am Draht" In-Reply-To: <002401c2d223$7d4ecdc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1044946485.2128.29.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <008001c2d1dc$b7d20580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <002401c2d223$7d4ecdc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, John Allain wrote: > Anybody on the list have a copy of > Fassbinder's "Welt am Draht" / "World on a Wire" > that I can borrow for viewing? Alternately, have www.abebooks.com currently lists 3 copies, all in Germany, all in the US$50 to 75 range. Just FYI... Cheerz John From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 11 19:55:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1263702624.20030211195252@subatomix.com> Well, I finally acquired a compressor. It's a 3HP 15gal model that they had at Sears. I'm going to unpack it and see what it can do here in a few seconds. If there is anything spectacular to report, I'll be sure to report it. Otherwise, thanks to all who contributed to this thread! -- Jeffrey Sharp From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 11 20:20:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: was: Re: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: <3E494DF8.5010300@mich.com> References: <00cc01c2d12f$86027010$10491c43@amscomputer> <20030210182029.GA29011@kotol.kotelna.sk> <2995.4.20.168.230.1044990334.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E494DF8.5010300@mich.com> Message-ID: <33047.64.169.63.74.1045016242.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I'm curious, Eric. I have a Sony MD-Data disk drive, and actually > considered using them for certain applications. It uses a SCSI > interface. I can't remember Sony ever predicting them to replace the > floppy. They said that either in a press release or an interview, I don't recall. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 11 20:56:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? Message-ID: Can anyone suggest a safe way to remove grime that is so old and so thick that the only way to remove it is to rub it off with your bare fingers? I slathered this board in contact cleaner and it didn't do anything. The grime just remained. If I rub it with my bare fingers then it will eventually start to rub off and leave little remainders like pencil eraser droppings. Any ideas? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Feb 11 21:14:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030212033845.GA8599@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Tue, Feb 11, 2003 at 06:49:29PM -0800: > Can anyone suggest a safe way to remove grime that is so old and so thick > that the only way to remove it is to rub it off with your bare fingers? Not sure if it's safe on circuit boards, but I've used Simple Green to wash the cases of computers with... worked great, no damage. > I slathered this board in contact cleaner and it didn't do anything. The Wasn't there a thread a while back in which someone mentioned washing circuit boards in a dishwasher? > grime just remained. If I rub it with my bare fingers then it will > eventually start to rub off and leave little remainders like pencil eraser > droppings. Several years ago, I used some sort of circuit board cleaner to clean up some very dirty circuit boards; not sure if I have any cans of this left, but I'll check to see if I can find out what this was. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Feb 11 21:17:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01c2d244$e0dfd610$020010ac@k4jcw> Is it small enough to fit in an ultrasonic cleaner? And how about a better degreaser, like Purple Magic from AIM chemical? (This stuff might be too harsh. It will damage soft rubber long term, and will strip the anodizing finish from certain types of aluminum, such as that used on the flame arrestors of my engines. I assume it's anodization, because it's the gold color, and it's sure not paint). --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 21:49 > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? > > > Can anyone suggest a safe way to remove grime that is so old > and so thick > that the only way to remove it is to rub it off with your > bare fingers? > > I slathered this board in contact cleaner and it didn't do > anything. The > grime just remained. If I rub it with my bare fingers then it will > eventually start to rub off and leave little remainders like > pencil eraser > droppings. > > Any ideas? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Feb 11 21:24:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: <63603.213.250.80.204.1044562845.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> References: <3E410FB8.6090604@topinform.com> <3E410FB8.6090604@topinform.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030211175159.00a15040@pop-server.socal.rr.com> I got this message from a guy today, and I am just wondering if he is correct, will the IBM drives work in the Kaypro? 5.25" full-height, 360 KB floppy drives (the big black ones)? Do they work? I'd be able to use them to restore a pair of old Kaypro computers that use these drives. The "B" drive on each Kaypro appears to be shot. From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Feb 11 21:29:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? In-Reply-To: <000b01c2d244$e0dfd610$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > Is it small enough to fit in an ultrasonic cleaner? And how about a better > degreaser, like Purple Magic from AIM chemical? (This stuff might be too > harsh. It will damage soft rubber long term, and will strip the anodizing > finish from certain types of aluminum, such as that used on the flame > arrestors of my engines. I assume it's anodization, because it's the gold > color, and it's sure not paint). > > --John > Ultrasonic cleaners are a no-no for electronics, especially older non-plastic chips and transistors with bond wires flapping in the breeze. These bond wires can resonate at the ultrasonic frequency, fatigue, and fall of... PCW From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Feb 11 21:52:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:46 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? Message-ID: From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 11 22:59:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030211175159.00a15040@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > I got this message from a guy today, and I am just wondering if he is > correct, will the IBM drives work in the Kaypro? > > 5.25" full-height, 360 KB floppy drives > (the big black ones)? Do they work? > I'd be able to use them to restore a pair of old Kaypro computers that use > these drives. The "B" drive on each Kaypro appears to > be shot. They probably should. I came across a TRS-80 Model 4 with IBM drives that worked fine. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 12 00:16:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030211175159.00a15040@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > I got this message from a guy today, and I am just wondering if he is > correct, will the IBM drives work in the Kaypro? Yes, they will work fine as will half-high 360k drives but you need some 'gap fillers' to make it look right. - don > 5.25" full-height, 360 KB floppy drives > (the big black ones)? Do they work? > I'd be able to use them to restore a pair of old Kaypro computers that use > these drives. The "B" drive on each Kaypro appears to > be shot. From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 12 00:17:02 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > From what are you trying to remove the grime? A very precious board, so anything not extraordinarily safe is right out. > - Pencil erasers work in a multitude of places, on a multitude of things... This would probably be the best bet. In the meantime I used a paper towel to rub the board where the grime was and it did a decent job, but there is still a layer of film. > **Watch-out rubbing it off with your bare fingers: you can generate ESD > (static electricity) and fry sensitive circuits/components! I removed all the ICs from their sockets. > [Note: Water may actually be one of the LEAST harmful cleaners! On > 11/2/01, a week before the WTC debacle, my primary network server system Then that would've been 4/9/01, yes? ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Feb 12 00:25:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > A very precious board, so anything not extraordinarily safe is right out. If this board is so valuable - don't ask us. Go to the experts, like a museum or college that has a curatorial program. The number one rule about museum restoration is *never* to try something that you are not *very* skilled at. I have found that the professionals can generally get anything off of anything without leaving anything. Quite amazing. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Feb 12 00:31:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? In-Reply-To: Vintage Computer Festival "Home to remove monumental grime?" (Feb 11, 18:49) References: Message-ID: <10302120629.ZM21154@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 11, 18:49, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Can anyone suggest a safe way to remove grime that is so old and so thick > that the only way to remove it is to rub it off with your bare fingers? > > I slathered this board in contact cleaner and it didn't do anything. The > grime just remained. If I rub it with my bare fingers then it will > eventually start to rub off and leave little remainders like pencil eraser > droppings. Don't use contact cleaner. Proper contact cleaner contains oil. It's not nearly as bad as WD40, but you don't really want the board covered in a flm of oil. If it's just one board, try washing it in warm water with some washing-up liquid (dishwashing detergent). If the grime is that stubborn, assist the process with a dishwashing brush. Rinse well, dry carefully (shake off or blow off as much water as possible, use some IPA to help remove the water). If you're in an area with very hard water, the final rinse before the IPA might best be done with distilled or deionised water. Don't dry the boards flat, the object is to let as much water (and any minerals dissolved in it) as possible to drain off. Make sure the board is thoroughly dry, which may take a day or two, especially if there are switches or sockets on it, before you try to use it. If that's too much like hard work, or you have a lot of boards to clean, consider using the dishwasher. That's what's used commercially (at least, for small-scale stuff). However, DON'T let it do the drying cycle (too hot for some things) and don't use the dishwasher if the board contains anything that might suffer: transformers, relays (unless hermetically sealed), paper labels that must be preserved, anything with extremely fine wires (core mats), etc. I've been told some very old ICs (grey type) don't like being immersed in hot water. I've never had a problem with that, but YMMV. Some old types of compressed paper boards (Paxolin) may not like the dishwasher either. Same rules apply about drying. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Feb 12 00:34:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? Message-ID: Sorry about the date... Not only did I get it wrong, but posted it in the US convention... In your terms, it would be 2/9/01, A Sunday, at @ 00:15, CST (GMT -5). Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of Sellam > Ismail > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:11 AM > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Home to remove monumental grime? > > On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > > > From what are you trying to remove the grime? > > A very precious board, so anything not extraordinarily safe is right out. > > > - Pencil erasers work in a multitude of places, on a multitude of > things... > > This would probably be the best bet. In the meantime I used a paper towel > to rub the board where the grime was and it did a decent job, but there is > still a layer of film. > > > **Watch-out rubbing it off with your bare fingers: you can generate ESD > > (static electricity) and fry sensitive circuits/components! > > I removed all the ICs from their sockets. > > > [Note: Water may actually be one of the LEAST harmful cleaners! On > > 11/2/01, a week before the WTC debacle, my primary network server system > > Then that would've been 4/9/01, yes? ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Feb 12 01:49:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? References: <20030212033845.GA8599@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001501c2d26a$fb270540$0100000a@milkyway> R. D. Davis wrote: > Not sure if it's safe on circuit boards, but I've used Simple Green > to wash the cases of computers with... worked great, no damage. Yet another solvent/cleaner that I can't find on this side of the "Big Pond"... >> I slathered this board in contact cleaner and it didn't do anything. >> The > Wasn't there a thread a while back in which someone mentioned washing > circuit boards in a dishwasher? I know Lee Davison's done it. Only catch is, you may have to replace a few components after cleaning it - electrolytics, etc. The trick is to take off all the components you can (pray that the ICs are socketed), then put the thing in on an Intensive (70 deg C IIRC) and leave it. When the dishwasher finishes, take the board out and leave it in a warm cupboard for a week or so, just to make sure it's dry. Reinstall the components, check for damage, repair and power up. >> grime just remained. If I rub it with my bare fingers then it will >> eventually start to rub off and leave little remainders like pencil >> eraser droppings. > Several years ago, I used some sort of circuit board cleaner to clean > up some very dirty circuit boards; not sure if I have any cans of this > left, but I'll check to see if I can find out what this was. Electrolube "Fluxclene" and straight IPA are quite good. I've used 70% IPA to remove light dirt from PCBs, Fluxclene is insanely aggressive. It doesn't fizz or bubble, but it removes nearly anything - it's intended to be used to remove solder flux. And it leaves most components and plastics intact. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Feb 12 01:57:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? References: <10302120629.ZM21154@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <002701c2d26c$2cc368e0$0100000a@milkyway> Peter Turnbull wrote: > Don't use contact cleaner. Proper contact cleaner contains oil. It's > not nearly as bad as WD40, but you don't really want the board covered > in a flm of oil. I can vouch for that - someone sent me a 386 motherboard he'd "cleaned" with Amberlube (IIRC). Now the board attracts dust like there's no tomorrow. It *needs* rinsing in IPA followed by deionised water, but I haven't got any. > If that's too much like hard work, or you have a lot of boards to > clean, consider using the dishwasher. That's what's used commercially > (at least, for small-scale stuff). However, DON'T let it do the > drying cycle (too hot for some things) and don't use the dishwasher > if the board contains anything that might suffer: transformers, > relays (unless hermetically sealed), paper labels that must be > preserved, anything with extremely fine wires (core mats), etc. I've > been told some very old ICs (grey type) don't like being immersed in > hot water. I've never had a problem with that, but YMMV. Some old > types of compressed paper boards (Paxolin) may not like the > dishwasher either. Same rules apply about drying. Ick... IIRC Electrolube produce a foam cleaner that (they claim) can rip grease and grime off a PCB without causing any damage to components. Fluxclene is also quite good, but it stinks to high heaven. Alcohol based, IIRC, with a slight citrus scent... For $DEITY's sake, use it in a well-ventilated area - outside if possible. I used a can of it for 20secs in a large kitchen and ended up with a headache that lasted 40 minutes... Oops. Never did that again... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Feb 12 02:25:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030211175159.00a15040@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030212001634.02c98310@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 10:13 PM 2/11/03 -0800, Don Maslin wrote: >On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > > > I got this message from a guy today, and I am just wondering if he is > > correct, will the IBM drives work in the Kaypro? > >Yes, they will work fine as will half-high 360k drives but you >need some 'gap fillers' to make it look right. I kind of hate to ship off my hard found, and not likely to find many more IMB drives, anything else yall can think of I could safely offer this person for his kaypro? Any old full height 360k drive perhaps? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Feb 12 02:25:36 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030212001942.02c9c010@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 10:10 PM 2/11/03 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > > > From what are you trying to remove the grime? > >A very precious board, so anything not extraordinarily safe is right out. soapy water and soft old toothbrushes. I also have a bench brush I like to use with the ultrasonic exploded ends (very soft, very fine). BTW I always wear gloves, at least a pair of exam gloves, most often huge red vinyl monsters that go half way to my elbows. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 12 07:32:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? In-Reply-To: <000b01c2d244$e0dfd610$020010ac@k4jcw> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030212083054.12577686@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:14 PM 2/11/03 -0500, you wrote: >Is it small enough to fit in an ultrasonic cleaner? I'd be REAL carefull of ultrasonic cleaners. I once let a friend of mine in the USAF take one of my old model airplane ignition engines (a McCoy 48) and try to clean it in an ultrasonic cleaner. The dammed thing vibrated the engine completely apart losing the screws and some other small parts down the drain. It also removed the anodizing from the aluminium castings! A lot of ICs don't have real good seals around their lids and legs and I think there's a excellant chance that an ultrasonic cleaner would drive solvent into the IC. Also you'd probaby lose an silkscreen lettering and a GOOD ultrasonic cleaner may even loosen the copper foil fom the board. Joe From Thilo.Schmidt at unix-ag.org Wed Feb 12 10:00:00 2003 From: Thilo.Schmidt at unix-ag.org (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: another free VAX in Germany Message-ID: <20030212155750.GA18498@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de> Hi, Today I found a Microvax II that is waiting for the scrapper. The case contains 3 RDXXX HDs, a TK50, Ethernet and some serial line controllers. And of course the CPU and an unknown amount of memory. I don't know the part no. of the case but it is the one that is twice as wide as the BA23 and has wheels. Seems to be in perfect condition. If anyone is interested I will roll it to a save place. It has to be gone during the weekend... It is located in 57068 Siegen, Germany and free for *pickup* only. bye Thilo From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 12 10:07:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: another free VAX in Germany In-Reply-To: <20030212155750.GA18498@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de> Message-ID: <20030212160448.75754.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Thilo Schmidt wrote: > Hi, > > Today I found a Microvax II that is waiting for the scrapper... > I don't know the part no. of the case but it is the one that is > twice as wide as the BA23 and has wheels. BA123. Very nice box to work on. Much room. -ethan From cb at mythtech.net Wed Feb 12 10:16:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro Message-ID: >I kind of hate to ship off my hard found, and not likely to find many more >IMB drives, anything else yall can think of I could safely offer this >person for his kaypro? Any old full height 360k drive perhaps? I have some half height 5.25 360K drives. They are working pulls from PC clones. I don't think I have any full height ones. Some (most?) are black, and many have that little imprinted asterick that designated the 360K "B" drive as opposed to the 1.2MB "A" drive. I don't know if these are IBM branded drives however, as many were probably NOT pulled from actual IBM PCs (some might have been). If you want one, just let me know. -chris From joe_web at worldonline.fr Wed Feb 12 10:21:00 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:47 2005 Subject: another free VAX in Germany References: <20030212160448.75754.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001901c2d2b3$1efd7060$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> you speak german, or french? because i'm interested, send me a mail at joe_web@worldonline.fr thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:04 PM Subject: Re: another free VAX in Germany > --- Thilo Schmidt wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Today I found a Microvax II that is waiting for the scrapper... > > I don't know the part no. of the case but it is the one that is > > twice as wide as the BA23 and has wheels. > > BA123. Very nice box to work on. Much room. > > -ethan From joe_web at worldonline.fr Wed Feb 12 10:25:00 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: another free VAX in Germany References: <20030212160448.75754.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003901c2d2b3$5bfbc200$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> sorry this message was not for you ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:04 PM Subject: Re: another free VAX in Germany > --- Thilo Schmidt wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Today I found a Microvax II that is waiting for the scrapper... > > I don't know the part no. of the case but it is the one that is > > twice as wide as the BA23 and has wheels. > > BA123. Very nice box to work on. Much room. > > -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 12 11:35:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: IMS INTERNATIONAL S-100 80186 CPU board Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030212122443.0f1fc8e2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Somewbody was asking about one of these a few weeks ago. Well there's another one for sale on E-bay. It's at . But again there are no docs. Joe From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Feb 12 11:57:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: IMS INTERNATIONAL S-100 80186 CPU board Message-ID: <200302121753.h1CHrog29919@io.crash.com> This seller has an (apparently) large stock of these IMS slave CPU boards and has been slowly getting rid of them on eBay. No complaints, though I didn't realize it was a slave as opposed to standalone CPU board when I picked up a pair. Haven't found any info on them, but I'm not looking all that hard either. --Steve. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 12 12:40:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502) In-Reply-To: <20030211203934.94122.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200302111916.OAA07599@conman.org> Message-ID: <3E4AA277.7822.BD5AA7B@localhost> > > A segmented architecture... > I have one word to say about segmented architecture... "Ewwwww" :) I like segmented systems. It's one of the best concepts for address space extension. Ok, I also think that the 8086 is one of the best 16 Bit CPUs (*1) ever, and as the 186 core at the top of their evolution. Gruss H. (*1) There are other great ones, like the 9900. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Feb 12 12:55:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Desperately seeking Twinax In-Reply-To: <200302121753.h1CHrog29919@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <2610BDB6-3EBB-11D7-A80F-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Joy of joys. Today my IBM System/36 5363 arrived today. It took a little battle damage from UPS but nothing some epoxy won't fix. Okay I only have the 5363. Now what? I thought I would write the group and ask for some advice. First - How about some manuals? I have a set of 5362 manuals but no 5363 manuals. Can anyone help? I'll trade. I started to look online but no leads yet. Second - I want to talk to it (I call it "Big Daddy" - reminds me of a giant PC). Is anyone on the list using one of those 5250 PCI emulation cards? I saw a couple on ePay. Wondering if I should get one or go for a terminal. Third - Wasn't there a group on the list that was putting together a software archive for the S/36? Fourth - Anyone got a spare Twinax terminal they want to part with? (send to me off the list on this one :) ) Thank you in advance for any help. Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com http://www.colourfull.com Michigan, USA ps. I was the guy looking for info on the IMS S-100 boards. I did buy another as a spare. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 12 13:05:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I got this message from a guy today, and I am just wondering if he is > correct, will the IBM drives work in the Kaypro? > 5.25" full-height, 360 KB floppy drives > (the big black ones)? Do they work? > I'd be able to use them to restore a pair of old Kaypro computers that use > these drives. The "B" drive on each Kaypro appears to > be shot. With a few exceptions (most notably Apple and Commodore) ALMOST everybody used "SA400 interface" "industry standard" drives. but you might need to set the termination and jumpers for drive select, head load, etc. Yes, the IBM drives will work in a Kaypro, TRS-80, Morrow, Zenith, Northstar, ... The different types that you need to be concerned with are single v double sided, 48TPI v 96TPI (the 100TPI is VERY "rare and valuable"), and amongst the VERY oldest drives - the original model of the SA400 was only 35 track. Of the machines listed at http://www.xenosoft.com/fmts.html all but a few use the same types of drives. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 12 13:11:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Desperately seeking Twinax In-Reply-To: <2610BDB6-3EBB-11D7-A80F-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <20030212190539.50772.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Robert Borsuk wrote: > Joy of joys. Today my IBM System/36 5363 arrived today... Cool. > Fourth - Anyone got a spare Twinax terminal they want to part with? > (send to me off the list on this one :) ) No terminals, but I do have a small box of Twinax-to-UTP adapters and one or two Twinax-to-DA15 adapters (presumably for a PeeCee 5150 emulation card). If anyone is interested, I'm sure I can be persuaded to give some of them up. -ethan From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Feb 12 13:16:51 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 ) Message-ID: <200302121908.LAA10833@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Hans Franke" > >> > A segmented architecture... > >> I have one word to say about segmented architecture... "Ewwwww" > >:) I like segmented systems. It's one of the best concepts for >address space extension. Ok, I also think that the 8086 is one >of the best 16 Bit CPUs (*1) ever, and as the 186 core at the >top of their evolution. > >Gruss >H. > >(*1) There are other great ones, like the 9900. Hi Hans Then you'll love the Z8000. Its segments are non-overlapping ( unless a mmu makes them so ). I like the 186 myself but have to admit that the time for segmented memory has passed, in general purpose computing. Dwight From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 12 13:22:44 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Real vs. Virtual vs. Physical (Was: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+)) In-Reply-To: <200302111916.OAA07599@conman.org> References: <3E493102.534.632780C@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 11, 2003 05:21:06 PM Message-ID: <3E4AA96B.6176.BF0D35D@localhost> > > (*1) Often the term real memory is used, but that's > > not correct. Physical memory is the memory installed > > in a machine, while real address space is the addressable > > amount of RAM by a CPU without using virtual addressing. > > Virtual address space can never excede real address space > > (After all, it's the maximum address range generated by > > the (logical) CPU), while physical memory can go beyond > > real or virual address space. > Virtual address space *can* exceed physical address space---the 80386 (and > therefore, on topic) is a good example. Err... rereading my paragraph, I can't see anything wrong. I didn't say Virtual can not exceede Physical. Of course it can. Just to make it clear: Physical is the amount of memory installed, or installable. Real is the address space addressable by a CPU. Virtual is the address space addressable before translateing. The first thing is that we are here talking about two things. Installed Memory and Address Space. Second, for most CPUs virtual and real address space are the same. Let's use a 6502 as example. The CPU has an address space of 2^16, which is the real address space. Now if we add a MMU, which translates the upper 4 bits into 8 bits of page addresses (each page 4k in size) we get a maximum physical address space of 1 MB, while the real address space is still 64k - and so is the virtual. > A segmented architecture, the > segment registers use 14 bits [1] as an index into a table giving the > physical address, while each segment can be 4G in size. 14+32 gives you a > 46-bit logical address, meaning you can virtually address 64 terrabytes in > the whole system; a bit more than just the 4G physical address space the > chip puts out. Now, here we have a virtual address space larger than the real. There is no statement about the physical. all we can say is that the physical (without any other mean of external address translation) if equal or lower than 2^32 (4G). The whole distinction between physical, and real/virtual was did become necersary when suddenly machines had more memory than they could address with real or virtual addressing. In fact, the 286 would have been the right example here. it could address 16M physical, while real and virtual addressing was still limited to 64K or 1 MB. > -spc (And attempting to use all 64TB would probably cosume huge amounts > of physical RAM just for the lookup tables ... ) Nop. you always have only a maximum of 2^13 descriptors. no mater how big the segments are. So if you use all 8192 Entries, the table is just 64K ... Nice value :) IIRC a entry has 8 bytes, containing base, limit, type, privs. So nom matter if you used a physical memory of 1 MB, or 4 GB, each descriptor table could only grow up to 64k. Hmm... oh, yes, there have been more tables: Local, Global, Task... Still, it comes up to a maximum of 256K. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 12 13:29:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro References: Message-ID: <3E4A9E2E.DFA8201B@rain.org> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > The different types that you need to be concerned with are single v double > sided, 48TPI v 96TPI (the 100TPI is VERY "rare and valuable"), and amongst > the VERY oldest drives - the original model of the SA400 was only 35 > track. Good grief, I must be rich and didn't realize it with a box of 100 TPI drives (used on Micropolis systems and Vector Graphic systems IIRC :). From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 12 13:35:08 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, chris wrote: > I have some half height 5.25 360K drives. They are working pulls from PC > clones. I don't think I have any full height ones. Some (most?) are > black, and many have that little imprinted asterick that designated the > 360K "B" drive as opposed to the 1.2MB "A" drive. The asterisk identifies a "360K" drive. Whether you put it in B: or A: is entirely up to you. Not everybody uses a 1.2M for A:. If a drive does NOT have an asterisk, then it is either a 1.2M, OR a 360K from before the time that IBM realized that they needed to differentiate and chose the wrong one to label, OR a 360K from most other manufacturers other than those building drives for IBM. (Common sense: if you create a new type of something and need to label them as being different, should you label the NEW type, or a subset of the subsequent production of the OLD type?) From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 12 13:42:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Nice CPUs (was: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 )) In-Reply-To: <200302121908.LAA10833@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E4AAF14.5030.C06EF56@localhost> > >> > A segmented architecture... > >> I have one word to say about segmented architecture... "Ewwwww" > >:) I like segmented systems. It's one of the best concepts for > >address space extension. Ok, I also think that the 8086 is one > >of the best 16 Bit CPUs (*1) ever, and as the 186 core at the > Then you'll love the Z8000. Its segments are non-overlapping > ( unless a mmu makes them so ). I never had a problem with overlaping. Programming is always a matter of diszipline, and well written code never accesses unassigned data :) The Z8000 was always a bit weired. a nice design, but weired. Ok, I never programmed it, only thinking around when I had to choose a processor for a system around 1980. The candidates where 16016, 68000, Z8000, 8086 and 9900. The 8086 droped out because of the complicated bus structure, the 9900 because 64K where not enough, otherwise it would have been my choice (and the 99000 wasn't realy available). So the finalists where National vs. Motorola vs. Zilog. After all, the NS16000 did offer the best extensibility, a complete and beliveable family model and a real nice and clean programming model. So 16016 it was. > I like the 186 myself but have to admit that the time for > segmented memory has passed, in general purpose computing. Well, define general purpose computing. In my eyes this describes real computers ... ala IBMish Mainframes, and Segmented memory never had a place there. When going for small systems, the 186 is still one of the best CPUs to use. Powerfull, fast, simple and high integrated. I don't know anything which can't be done in a megabyte of mem. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Feb 12 13:48:09 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 ) References: <200302121908.LAA10833@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E4AA0D6.4030201@jetnet.ab.ca> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi Hans > Then you'll love the Z8000. Its segments are non-overlapping > ( unless a mmu makes them so ). > I like the 186 myself but have to admit that the time for > segmented memory has passed, in general purpose computing. > Dwight Yet for all practical purposes you only have a few segments so almost any MMU on a 16 bit processer works: user code, user data , os code , os data , video buffer. Ben. PS Is the 6809 a 8 or a 16 bit CPU? From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 12 13:59:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 ) In-Reply-To: <3E4AA0D6.4030201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3E4AB515.2572.C1E634D@localhost> And I whished nobody would do it, but Ben did ! > PS Is the 6809 a 8 or a 16 bit CPU? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo now we have to go thru all of this ...... it is one of the never never ask questions, but no matter what point you take it's always inbetween ... ok, I go for 8, 'cause the 16 Bit instructions (*1) are only a subset, and the data bus is 8 Bit. Now, when talking about 8 Bit CPUs, then it's one of the most advanced. Gruss H. (*1) Just judgeing by the existance of 16 Bit instructions, even the 8080 would qualify as 16 Bit (yes, I know, the real ALU size is also an argument, which declassifiies the 8080 in any way. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 12 14:05:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Nice CPUs (was: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 )) In-Reply-To: References: <3E4AAF14.5030.C06EF56@localhost> Message-ID: <3E4AB688.13385.C240E5A@localhost> > > > I like the 186 myself but have to admit that the time for segmented > > > memory has passed, in general purpose computing. > > Well, define general purpose computing. In my eyes this describes real > > computers ... ala IBMish Mainframes, and Segmented memory never had a > > place there. When going for small systems, the 186 is still one of the > > best CPUs to use. Powerfull, fast, simple and high integrated. I don't > > know anything which can't be done in a megabyte of mem. > How about a database record sort on a field with a data length greater > than 1MB? First of all what kind of ill designed database this is? Ok, don't answer. If that's your goal, I'd do it like any other operation, read the fields to compare in chunks of max say 64K (well in reality i'd use the block/cluster size of the drive) and compare it. Chances are pretty good that they will be already different in the first block, and disk access time is here more relevant than comparsion speed (which is done in one machine instruction, at the spped of the data bus). Even if your CPU is be able to handle megabyte size fields in one chunk, the incremental compare will outperform... As so often algorythm wins over brute force. Gruss H. (I did several 100k of 80186 assembly :) -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 12 14:10:54 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 ) In-Reply-To: <3E4AA0D6.4030201@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <200302121908.LAA10833@clulw009.amd.com> <3E4AA0D6.4030201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <32893.64.169.63.74.1045079856.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > PS Is the 6809 a 8 or a 16 bit CPU? Yes. From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Feb 12 14:16:48 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 In-Reply-To: <3E4AB515.2572.C1E634D@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 12, 03 08:56:53 pm Message-ID: <200302122000.PAA25914@wordstock.com> And thusly Hans Franke spake: > > Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo > now we have to go thru all of this ...... it is one of > the never never ask questions, but no matter what point > you take it's always inbetween ... ok, I go for 8, 'cause > the 16 Bit instructions (*1) are only a subset, and the > data bus is 8 Bit. Now, when talking about 8 Bit CPUs, > then it's one of the most advanced. > > Gruss > H. > > (*1) Just judgeing by the existance of 16 Bit instructions, > even the 8080 would qualify as 16 Bit (yes, I know, the > real ALU size is also an argument, which declassifiies > the 8080 in any way. So would the 65816 be included in this "list"? Cheers, Bryan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 12 14:23:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: <3E4A9E2E.DFA8201B@rain.org> Message-ID: <20030212200304.24034.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Marvin Johnston wrote: > (the 100TPI is VERY "rare and valuable")... > > Good grief, I must be rich and didn't realize it with a box of 100 TPI > drives (used on Micropolis systems and Vector Graphic systems IIRC :). And on the Commodore 8050 and 8250, IIRC. -ethan From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Feb 12 14:34:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 ) References: <200302121908.LAA10833@clulw009.amd.com> <3E4AA0D6.4030201@jetnet.ab.ca> <32893.64.169.63.74.1045079856.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <041001c2d2d5$bf1bc390$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 1:57 PM Subject: Re: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 ) > > PS Is the 6809 a 8 or a 16 bit CPU? > > Yes. :-) Good Answer This has been argued many times. Personally, I would go with the width of the accumulator(s), 8 bits for 6809, even though there are special (or perhaps BECAUSE they are special) instructions that use the combination of the two accumulators as one 16 bit ("D") register. Stuart Johnson From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 12 14:49:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Need weight of hopper weight thingy for Documation card reader Message-ID: You know the thingy that sits on top of the stack of punch cards and pushes them down into the hopper of a punch card reader? I need the weight of that thing for a Documation M200 reader. I'm using the weight from a Documation D150 and it just doesn't work right. Bonus points for telling me what this is called ;) Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From quapla at xs4all.nl Wed Feb 12 15:04:00 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Need weight of hopper weight thingy for Documation card reader References: Message-ID: <3E4AB4A2.F2BC677@xs4all.nl> 500 grams and it has 2 wheels on each side. Ed Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > You know the thingy that sits on top of the stack of punch cards and > pushes them down into the hopper of a punch card reader? > > I need the weight of that thing for a Documation M200 reader. I'm using > the weight from a Documation D150 and it just doesn't work right. > > Bonus points for telling me what this is called ;) > > Thanks! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn onbetrouwbaar quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Wie mij te na komt zal het weten. '97 TL1000S | From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Feb 12 15:08:00 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (lemay@cs.umn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys Message-ID: <200302122105.PAA11895@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I bought a xx2247 key from ebay. Just in case others are planning to do the same, the key appears to be an almost brand new copy. There is a *slight* amount of rust in the areas that were cut away, but other than that it is nice shiny new chrome. I purchased mine for the starting bid of $10, but they then charged me $10 more for shipping (actual shipping was $4.30), making for an expensive key. I called the local locksmith and they will duplicate this type of key for $6 each. The other thing to note is that the key I obtained from Ebay auction is stamped Do Not Duplicate, which the original DEC keys (I have 2) do not say. I figure they had a original copied a few years back, and added the Do Not Duplicate just in case a customer needed more than 1 key, so they would have to pay through the nose for it. Now I see they have the starting bid boosted to $25, for a non-original duplicate key, what a load of... PS: I happen to have the locking mechanism disconnected from a PDP 8/E power supply, and before i reinstall it, i plan to bring it and the keys to that locksmith so i can have some cheaper, 'working' copies of the key made. I like having a key sitting in the lock ready to turn. If others need a key, let me know and i'm sure I can get you one for a lot less than that ebay guy. -Lawrence LeMay From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Feb 12 15:16:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Nice CPUs (was: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 )) Message-ID: <200302122114.NAA10874@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Hans Franke" > >> >> > A segmented architecture... >> >> I have one word to say about segmented architecture... "Ewwwww" > >> >:) I like segmented systems. It's one of the best concepts for >> >address space extension. Ok, I also think that the 8086 is one >> >of the best 16 Bit CPUs (*1) ever, and as the 186 core at the > >> Then you'll love the Z8000. Its segments are non-overlapping >> ( unless a mmu makes them so ). > >I never had a problem with overlaping. Programming is always >a matter of diszipline, and well written code never accesses >unassigned data :) > >The Z8000 was always a bit weired. a nice design, but weired. >Ok, I never programmed it, only thinking around when I had to >choose a processor for a system around 1980. The candidates >where 16016, 68000, Z8000, 8086 and 9900. >The 8086 droped out because of the complicated bus structure, >the 9900 because 64K where not enough, otherwise it would have >been my choice (and the 99000 wasn't realy available). So the >finalists where National vs. Motorola vs. Zilog. After all, >the NS16000 did offer the best extensibility, a complete and >beliveable family model and a real nice and clean programming >model. So 16016 it was. > >> I like the 186 myself but have to admit that the time for >> segmented memory has passed, in general purpose computing. > >Well, define general purpose computing. In my eyes this >describes real computers ... ala IBMish Mainframes, and >Segmented memory never had a place there. When going for >small systems, the 186 is still one of the best CPUs to >use. Powerfull, fast, simple and high integrated. I don't >know anything which can't be done in a megabyte of mem. Hi Hans We agree here. The only hard part of working with the 186's is getting the init sequence debugged. Once that is done they are great. I don't think that I've ever written a program that took more than about 35K ( not counting data space ). Then again, most of the larger programs I've written were in Forth so it is hard to compare. Dwight > >Gruss >H. > >-- >VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen >http://www.vcfe.org/ From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 12 15:40:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Need weight of hopper weight thingy for Documation card reader In-Reply-To: <3E4AB4A2.F2BC677@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, The Wanderer wrote: > 500 grams and it has 2 wheels on each side. Well, this thing is about 635 grams and has no rollers. It looks like someone added a piece of metal to it to make it heavier. I might have more success with it if I remove it. If anyone has one of these things spare, I'd like to talk to you ;) Thanks, Ed! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Feb 12 15:42:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 ) In-Reply-To: <041001c2d2d5$bf1bc390$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <200302121908.LAA10833@clulw009.amd.com> <3E4AA0D6.4030201@jetnet.ab.ca> <32893.64.169.63.74.1045079856.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030212162451.0276d928@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Stuart Johnson may have mentioned these words: > > > PS Is the 6809 a 8 or a 16 bit CPU? > > Yes. >:-) Good Answer Me Too!!! ;-) >This has been argued many times. Personally, I would go with the width of >the accumulator(s), 8 bits for 6809, even though there are special (or >perhaps BECAUSE they are special) instructions that use the combination of >the two accumulators as one 16 bit ("D") register. So where would that put the Hitachi 63C09? It's 6809 compatible, but in 6309 mode, it has 4 8-bit registers, combinable to 2 16-bit registers that you can do full 16-bit arithmetic on... but wait! There's More! No, not Ginsu Knives..... All four registers can be combined for 32-bit math functions! And even without using the added registers, in 6309-mode, 6809-programs run 15-20% faster on average, due to decreased clock cycle times on many instructions...[1] Too bad they're not still making 'em... :-( -- although I've always wondered if their newer processors (like the SH-3 ) are based on it... Laterz, "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com [1] "Makes a guy wanna say `Hot Diggity!`" -- Me From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 12 16:14:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: VCF Gazette Volume 1, Issue 4 Message-ID: VCF Gazette Volume 1, Issue 4 A Newsletter for the Vintage Computer Festival February 12, 2003 Hello Vintage Computer Fans! There is exciting news in this issue, with yet another Apple-1 auction brought to you by the Vintage Computer Festival. In this issue: Apple-1 Auction VCF Europa 4.0 VCF East Update VCF Archives: On The Move VintageTech Punch Card Conversion Services Latest Additions to the VCF Archives Apple-1 Auction --------------- The Vintage Computer Festival, which has accidentally gained a reputation as the premier auctioneer of Apple-1 computers, is at it again. We are proud to announce our third Apple-1 auction! The Apple-1 we are currently auctioning is the finest example yet. It includes a wooden enclosure that neatly bundles the keyboard, power supply and Apple-1 board together into a nice, tidy unit. Information about the Apple-1, including information on how to register as a bidder, can be found here: http://www.vintage.org/special/2003/apple-1/ If you've been looking for an Apple-1 to add to your collection, this is your chance! VCF Europa 4.0 -------------- The fourth annual Vintage Computer Festival Europa is being held on May 3rd and 4th at the Mehrzweckhalle des ESV M?nchen Ost in Munich, Germany. VCF co-producer Hans Franke hosts another fine event that brings together Europe's most celebrated old machines. Lectures, exhibits, and some damn good German beer (served onsite!) await you. More information on VCF Europa 4.0 can be found here: http://www.vcfe.org/ Join us for some geeky fun, European style! VCF Archives: On The Move ------------------------- As of the last issue of the VCF Gazette, we announced our plans to open our VCF Archives to the public by the end of 2002. Well, fate, as always, has dealt an unexpected hand. The Alameda County Computer Resource Center, which graciously hosts the VCF Archives, abruptly announced in late November their intention to move into a new facility in Berkeley, California. As of this writing, the ACCRC is now in the midst of transitioning its operations into the new facility. The new facility in Berkeley is not as large as the Oakland facility, and so there is no room to set up the complete VCF Archives there. The VCF will have a small computer history exhibit in the corner of the new community center that the ACCRC is building to allow the local public access to computers and the internet. In the meantime, the ACCRC has concluded negotiations on a 42,000 square foot facility at the old Oakland Army Base in Oakland, California (only a few miles away from the existing location). This facility will be used primarily by the ACCRC for processing computer and electronics scrap that is received for recycling. The plan is for the VCF to move its archives to this facility and operate its publicly accessible archive from this location. The net effect for the VCF is that we are probably still about six months away from being able to offer our entire archives for public consumption. The move, while mildly inconvenient, is a strategic and necessary step by the ACCRC to grow its operations, and the VCF sees this as an opportunity to grow our own operations as well. The ACCRC is fully committed to hosting the VCF Archives, and the VCF is fully committed to supporting and promoting the ACCRC, which is probably the most successful and prolific non-profit organization in the world that distributes computer technology free of charge to deserving entities and individuals around the globe. Your support of the Alameda County Computer Resource Center is greatly welcomed and appreciated. You can read all about this fine organization at their website: http://www.accrc.org If you have the means, please consider sending them a donation. You might even consider volunteering your time. Their website contains complete donation and volunteer information. VCF East 2.0 Update ------------------- VCF East 2.0 is still in the planning stages. Our primary focus right now is locating a proper venue. Our focus continues to be on the Boston metropolitan area, which presents the most convenient prospects for staging VCF East. We will hopefully have a venue selected within 2 weeks, and will announce a date for VCF East 2.0 sometime in June. VCF East 2.0 is being planned according to a very tight budget. This is the first VCF that is being completely planned and budgeted in advance. This is out of necessity, due to the continuing prevailing economic conditions that make it difficult to run any business, let alone a short term function such as the Vintage Computer Festival. We must strictly adhere to this budget in order to make VCF Eeast 2.0 happen. We realize that many people are looking forward to VCF East 2.0 and we apologize for the continuing delays. However, we feel we are close to announcing a date and location. As soon as we have the information we'll be sure to make an immediate announcement so that attendees and exhibitors can make plans. So please, stay tuned! VintageTech Punch Card Conversion Services ------------------------------------------ VintageTech, the VCF off-shoot that provides old computer technology and services to business and academia, has recently gotten one of the VCF's old punch card readers working. The reader is a Documation M200, and even at nearly 30 years old it's still capable of reading 200 cards per minute, its top speed. The reader's interface, being meant to connect directly to a specific punch card reader controller in a DEC or other mini-computer, has no "modern" equivalent. In order to get the data from the reader to a PC, an converter needed to be built. We used what we knew: an Apple //e. The output of the reader can be considered to be 12-bit, since there are 12 data holes on a punch card. There are also several signal outputs that tell the host machine if there was a problem (such as a card getting stuck in the reader). Our Apple //e is fitted with a custom-built parallel interface card with 20 inputs. The data and signal inputs from the reader were wired into a special harness to fit the parallel card. Software to control the reader and decode the punch card data was developed on the Apple //e. As the data is read on the //e, it is sent over a serial port to a PC, where the data can then be saved to modern media for preservation. Reading punch card data into a PC involves two steps: first, the data on the card, as represented by the holes punched into it, must be decoded; second, that data, which can be stored in any one of over a dozen encodings, must be converted to ASCII. Punch cards evolved from the first machines that Herman Hollerith invented to conduct the 1890 census count for the United States. As punch card technology evolved, so did punch card character sets. Special symbols such as punctuation were added to the basic character set consisting of letters and numbers. Eventually, character set standards evolved. IBM, which for the most part pioneered punch card technology, had two common sets: "FORTRAN", used for FORTRAN program coding, and "Commercial", used for encoding general data. In each of these character sets, only a few minor punctuation characters have different encodings. The letters and numbers are encoded the same. Decoding punch card data is a matter of interpreting the holes. First of all, data is encoded on punch cards in columns. There are 80 columns on a typical punch card, and each column contains one encoded character. In fact, this 80 column width is the reason why computer terminals, and subsequently personal computers, usually had a screen width of 80 characters: it was a throw back to the punch card! Across the punch card there are 12 rows. The rows are numbered 1 through 9, and then 0, 11, 12. Encoding a number is simple. To encode a '5' for example, the 5 row is punched in a column. To encode a '0', the 0 row is punched. It's as simple as that. The rows 0, 11, and 12 are called "zones", and are used to encode letters and puncutation symbols. So for instance, to punch an 'A' character, the 12 hole and the 1 hole are punched. A 'B' is the 12 hole and the 2 hole, a 'C' is the 12 hole and the 3 hole, and so on, all the way up to 12 and 9, which is an 'I'. At that point, the alphabet continues in the next zone, which is 11. So 11 and 1 is 'J', 11 and 2 is 'K', etc. Finally, the alphabet ends at 0 and 9, which is 'Z'. Some characters are encoded by punching more than one hole. The most common special characters are encoded by punching the 3 and 8 or 4 and 8 holes and then one of the zones (0, 11 or 12). Some crazy character sets, like IBM's EBCDIC, can have up to 5 holes being punched to represent one character (usually a special control character). As the punch cards are whisked through the reader, the hole punches are sent over the interface to the Apple //e, which then interprets the data according to a character set table in memory that is used to decode the data from punch card codes into ASCII. That character is then flung over the serial port to a waiting PC that then captures and stores the data to a file. A typical 2000 card deck, representing 2000 lines of code or data (or 160,000 bytes maximum), can be read in about 10 minutes. By comparison, the Apple //e could read an entire 143K disk in under 6 seconds. And a typical PC today can devour that amount of data in less than a millisecond. How times have changed... A lot of useful programs and data are locked away on old punch cards. If you or someone you know has such data and would like to have it recovered, please visit VintageTech to inquire about our punch card data conversion services. VintageTech can also read and convert just about any old media format into a modern format. http://www.vintagetech.com Latest Additions to the VCF Archives ------------------------------------ Some cool new stuff has made its way into the VCF Archives. Here are the highlights: o Unassembled Ohio Scientific Superboard II kit (circa 1982) o LNW Research Corporation LNW80 (TRS-80 Model 1 clone) A long time ago, the VCF used to maintain what we called the "Recent Acquisitions Report" (RAR). This was a list of all the latest goodies that were found while out and about hunting for old computers. The RAR is defunct now, but the old entries are still up. In case anyone is interested in reviewing the old reports, you can find them here: http://www.vintage.org/vcf98/rar.htm The RAR as it stands represents one and a half years of VCF collecting efforts. The collection has of course continued to grow since then. You can check out the specs of the VCF Archives here: http://www.vintage.org/archive.php That wraps it up for this issue of the VCF Gazette! Until next time... Best regards, Sellam Ismail Producer Vintage Computer Festival http://www.vintage.org/ The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and their history. The VCF Gazette goes out to anyone who subscribed to the VCF mailing list, and is intended to keep those interested in the VCF informed of the latest VCF events and happenings. The VCF Gazette is guaranteed to be published in a somewhat irregular manner, though we will try to maintain a quarterly schedule. If you would like to be removed from the VCF mailing list, and therefore not receive any more issues of the VCF Gazette, visit the following web page: http://www.vintage.org/remove.php PEACE ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Feb 12 16:35:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 ) References: <200302121908.LAA10833@clulw009.amd.com> <3E4AA0D6.4030201@jetnet.ab.ca> <32893.64.169.63.74.1045079856.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030212162451.0276d928@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3E4ACAE7.3040308@jetnet.ab.ca> Roger Merchberger wrote: > So where would that put the Hitachi 63C09? It's 6809 compatible, but in > 6309 mode, it has 4 8-bit registers, combinable to 2 16-bit registers > that you can do full 16-bit arithmetic on... but wait! There's More! No, > not Ginsu Knives..... Having brought the subject up, I tend to think the 6809 is a 16 bit cpu because of the good addressing modes and the Intel 8086 a 8 bit cpu because of the lack of them. Also OS/9 for the 6809 was very nice system. Ben. From allain at panix.com Wed Feb 12 16:35:34 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys References: <200302122105.PAA11895@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <003e01c2d2e6$a5f1e640$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > the key I obtained from Ebay auction is stamped Do > Not Duplicate, which the original DEC keys do not say. If you have evidence that the key is a copy-of-a-DEC-key and not an original DEC-key, and the wording clearly states or implies DEC-key and not copy-of-a-DEC-key, then report to the seller calmly and politely stating the nature of the _misunderstanding_ and ask for a refund. Either way, since none of these keys are Marked DEC, the need to buy any one on eBay is unclear. just my $0.02 (plus shipping) John A. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Feb 12 16:41:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" "Re: Home to remove monumental grime?" (Feb 12, 7:47) References: <20030212033845.GA8599@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <001501c2d26a$fb270540$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <10302122142.ZM21526@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 12, 7:47, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Wasn't there a thread a while back in which someone mentioned washing > > circuit boards in a dishwasher? > I know Lee Davison's done it. Only catch is, you may have to replace a few > components after cleaning it - electrolytics, etc. If you have to replace electrolytics after washing, there was something wrong with the electrolytics before you started. They're routinely washed commercially. There are other sorts of components that may be damaged by washing, though. > Electrolube "Fluxclene" and straight IPA are quite good. I've used 70% IPA > to remove light dirt from PCBs, Fluxclene is insanely aggressive. It doesn't > fizz or bubble, but it removes nearly anything - it's intended to be used to > remove solder flux. And it leaves most components and plastics intact. It will certainly work, but if the board is very dirty, you'll still need to wash it in clean water (and possibly detergent) afterwards to get rid of the residues, and then get rid of the water (IPA, compressed air, whatever). Kitchen worktop cleaner is much cheaper and works just as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From knightstalkerbob at netscape.net Wed Feb 12 16:47:00 2003 From: knightstalkerbob at netscape.net (Bob Mason) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89 Intro Message-ID: <3467CD44.228B5B15.CF1A260E@netscape.net> "Jason J. Gullickson" wrote: >I recently acquired what I believe to be a Heathkit H89. It was >assembled a long time ago by my friend's father, contains a single disk >drive and a monochrome terminal. > >My ultimate goal would be to get this thing running CPM and a C >compiler, but first I need to figure out if it's working. > >I've yet to determine if it has a hard or soft-sectored disk controller, >but I have some general questions since I don't have any documentation. > >First, where can I get some documentation? ; ) I have all the original documentation, including the assembly manual and schematics. My first question is; has Heath/Zenith released H89 docs to P.D.? > >Second, when I turn the machine on, all I get is a blinking cursor. If >I depress the "offline" key, I can type characters on the terminal >accompanied by a short beep; if the "offline" key is not depressed, I >get long beeps and nothing on the display. What "should" it do when I >turn it on with no disk in the drive? > IIRC, on power-up, you only have about 4 options as to what keys you can press. Pressing "B" should respond with "oot" (to boot the machine). I don't remember what the other options were. I also remember a space bar tapping ritual, to syncronize the serial comm between the two boards. Don't remember when that was applicable, though. >I'll be happy to provide more info as I dig it up, but any introductory >details on this system or references to websites, etc. would be greatly >appreciated. > > >Jason J. Gullickson >mr@jasongullickson.com > -- Bob Mason 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, 'ME, 384meg, 20Gig & 40Gig, flatbed. Heathkit H-89A, 64K RAM, hard and soft-sectored floppies, SigmaSoft and Systems 256K RAM Drive/Print Spooler/Graphics board HDOS 2 & CP/M 2.2.03/2.2.04 From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Feb 12 17:00:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, Now that I inherited a nice set of StorageWorks enclusures with an HSZ40C controller, I might as well use it, no? I plan on connecting it to the primary file server of my "fun" network (also known as VAXlab, aka pdp11.nl) so I'll have more (and safer) storage there. Only prob is.. the HSZ40C has a diff-scsi port, whereas the machines have SE. Is this easily converted with a cable, or will I be doing resistor- balancing and/or use a signal converter box? Thx, Fred From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Feb 12 17:05:01 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030212170305.0197ffb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Sorry to take so long in getting back to you, but my hard drive crashed and my DSL went down, both in the same week, but unrelated... I have an ELT320. It has a connector on the back for either a PC/AT (large DIN) or a DEC LK401 compatible keyboard. The terminal also requires a 12v 2.5a power supply, which plugs into a 6pin DIN. --tom At 10:16 PM 2/9/2003 -0800, Glen S wrote: >Looks like an interesting item for a total of $11 including shipping. But >does that include the keyboard? Neither this listing nor the last one I >saw on eBay showed a picture of a keyboard nor explicitly stated that a >keyboard was included as far as I could see. Do these ELT320 terminals >use a standard interface keyboard that is easy to replace if you get one >without a keyboard? > > >>From: Ethan Dicks >>Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: Who here has a Planar ELT-320? >>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 18:15:23 -0800 (PST) >> >>Second time around, I won an ELT-320 on ePay... > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 12 17:37:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030211175159.00a15040@pop-server.socal.rr.com> from "Mike Ford" at Feb 11, 3 05:53:21 pm Message-ID: > I got this message from a guy today, and I am just wondering if he is > correct, will the IBM drives work in the Kaypro? The original IBM PC (and PC/XT) drives were _standard_ 40 cylinder Tandon units with 'IBM' moulded into the faceplate. They are electrically and mechanically the same (I've compared the schematics...). There's even the standard configuration jumper block on them (which was always set the same way on a PC -- the same way on both drives -- due to the IBM twist in the cable). Provided the Kaypro also uses standard drives, then they should work -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 12 17:40:41 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 11, 3 06:49:29 pm Message-ID: > Can anyone suggest a safe way to remove grime that is so old and so thick > that the only way to remove it is to rub it off with your bare fingers? > > I slathered this board in contact cleaner and it didn't do anything. The Waht cotnact cleaner did you use? I've found soaking the boards in fairly pure propan-2-ol shifts a lot of gunge and doesn't harm the components. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 12 17:42:29 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Feb 12, 3 11:26:08 am Message-ID: > If a drive does NOT have an asterisk, then it is either a 1.2M, OR a 360K > from before the time that IBM realized that they needed to differentiate > and chose the wrong one to label, OR a 360K from most other manufacturers > other than those building drives for IBM. According to the O&A TechRef, there are 2 distinct 40 cylinder drives : The 'Slimline' drive used in the PortablePC and PCjr. This des not have the asterisk The double density (360K) drive for the PC/AT. This does have the asterisk. They are difference electrically (made by difference companies?). I think the use of pin 34 on the connector differs too. Officially you shouldn't interchange them. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 12 17:42:58 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 In-Reply-To: <041001c2d2d5$bf1bc390$0200a8c0@cosmo> from "Stuart Johnson" at Feb 12, 3 02:31:39 pm Message-ID: > > > PS Is the 6809 a 8 or a 16 bit CPU? > > > > Yes. > > :-) Good Answer > > This has been argued many times. Personally, I would go with the width of > the accumulator(s), 8 bits for 6809, even though there are special (or > perhaps BECAUSE they are special) instructions that use the combination of > the two accumulators as one 16 bit ("D") register. I've recently been working on a couple of different machines, both of which use the same CPU board set, the CPU beilg built from TTL. The 'simpler' of the 2 machines has the following 'widths' : It's bit-serial, so the ALU is 1 bit wide. However, there's nybble access (4 bits) to one of the registers and the memory data register for BCD operations Main CPU registers, memory address, memory data, and machine language program ROMs are all 16 bits wide. User program instructions are 6 bits wide. But the physical RAM to store them is 3 bits wide, with hardware to do 2 physical memory cycles per logical cycle User data is 16 bits wide, similarly stored in 8 bit wide RAM. So is this machine : 1 bit (ALU width most of the time) 3 bit (user program phyical memory) 4 bit (ALU width for BCD operations) 6 bit (user program logical memory) 8 bit (user data physical memory) 16 bit (registers, etc) ???? Oh, the more complicated machine has the same CPU (so can be justified as 1, 4 or 16 bits) but all memory, ROM and RAM, is 16 bits wide, both physically and logically. Anyone care to guess what the 2 machines are? -tony From thompson at new.rr.com Wed Feb 12 17:43:26 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: You would need a different SCSI card. Or perhaps a signal converter DWZZB like thing (although you would be running the DWZZB in "reverse"). As you probably know, the HSZ -> storage scsi is all SE, just the port back to the host is differential. On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > All, > > Now that I inherited a nice set of StorageWorks enclusures with > an HSZ40C controller, I might as well use it, no? I plan on > connecting it to the primary file server of my "fun" network > (also known as VAXlab, aka pdp11.nl) so I'll have more (and safer) > storage there. > > Only prob is.. the HSZ40C has a diff-scsi port, whereas the machines > have SE. > > Is this easily converted with a cable, or will I be doing resistor- > balancing and/or use a signal converter box? > > Thx, > Fred > -- From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 12 17:44:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030212001634.02c98310@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > At 10:13 PM 2/11/03 -0800, Don Maslin wrote: > >On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > I got this message from a guy today, and I am just wondering if he is > > > correct, will the IBM drives work in the Kaypro? > > > >Yes, they will work fine as will half-high 360k drives but you > >need some 'gap fillers' to make it look right. > > > I kind of hate to ship off my hard found, and not likely to find many > more IMB drives, anything else yall can think of I could safely offer > this person for his kaypro? Any old full height 360k drive perhaps? There is an excellent likelihood that except for the face with the letters "IBM" on it, the remainder is Tandon TM100-2. - don From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Feb 12 17:46:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <1045093429.12277.0.camel@crusader> As I understand it, its more than just a cable.. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong) Voltage/Signal levels are different. David On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 17:58, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > All, > > Now that I inherited a nice set of StorageWorks enclusures with > an HSZ40C controller, I might as well use it, no? I plan on > connecting it to the primary file server of my "fun" network > (also known as VAXlab, aka pdp11.nl) so I'll have more (and safer) > storage there. > > Only prob is.. the HSZ40C has a diff-scsi port, whereas the machines > have SE. > > Is this easily converted with a cable, or will I be doing resistor- > balancing and/or use a signal converter box? > > Thx, > Fred From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Feb 12 17:49:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6B@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > You would need a different SCSI card. Try telling a VAX 4000-100A that :) > As you probably know, the HSZ -> storage scsi is > all SE, just the port back to the host is differential. Yup.. and I could either find a signal converter then, or perhaps the DSSI port adapter for the HSZ40 .. --f From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Feb 12 17:50:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > All, > > Now that I inherited a nice set of StorageWorks enclusures with > an HSZ40C controller, I might as well use it, no? I plan on > connecting it to the primary file server of my "fun" network > (also known as VAXlab, aka pdp11.nl) so I'll have more (and safer) > storage there. > > Only prob is.. the HSZ40C has a diff-scsi port, whereas the machines > have SE. > > Is this easily converted with a cable, or will I be doing resistor- > balancing and/or use a signal converter box? It can't be done with just passive components.. ie you will need either a differential<->single-ended converter or a differential SCSI card. If you're using a machine that takes PCI cards, then a card will be cheaper, but if you're using it with a VAX or PDP-11, etc, I'm doubtful you'll find a differential-scsi interface, and will need to buy an interface box. If you need/want a PCI wide/differential SCSI card, I have several Adaptec AHA-3944AUWD's (with PC BIOS ROMs) that I would be willing to sell at a 'reasonable' price (probably $40 + shipping). As far as 'converter boxes' go, I don't know what one would cost, because I've never had to buy one. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Feb 12 18:03:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 References: Message-ID: <3E4ADF8A.5080706@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > Oh, the more complicated machine has the same CPU (so can be justified as > 1, 4 or 16 bits) but all memory, ROM and RAM, is 16 bits wide, both > physically and logically. > > Anyone care to guess what the 2 machines are? I have not the foggest idea, but fancy calculator comes to mind because of the BCD math bit. Ben. From alex at trdlnk.com Wed Feb 12 18:03:39 2003 From: alex at trdlnk.com (Alex Stade) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <1045093429.12277.0.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <3E4AE00E.505@trdlnk.com> That's correct. http://scsifaq.paralan.com/scsifaqanswers.html#8 David Holland wrote: > As I understand it, its more than just a cable.. (Someone correct me if > I'm wrong) > > Voltage/Signal levels are different. > > David > > > On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 17:58, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > >>All, >> >>Now that I inherited a nice set of StorageWorks enclusures with >>an HSZ40C controller, I might as well use it, no? I plan on >>connecting it to the primary file server of my "fun" network >>(also known as VAXlab, aka pdp11.nl) so I'll have more (and safer) >>storage there. >> >>Only prob is.. the HSZ40C has a diff-scsi port, whereas the machines >>have SE. >> >>Is this easily converted with a cable, or will I be doing resistor- >>balancing and/or use a signal converter box? >> >>Thx, >> Fred > -- --- ----- Alexander Stade 200 W. Jackson Blvd Suite 2300 Systems Administrator Chicago, IL 60606 TradeLink L.L.C. Phone - 312.264.2000 ext. 2027 alex@trdlnk.com Fax - 312.264.2001 From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 12 18:05:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <33277.64.169.63.74.1045094576.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Only prob is.. the HSZ40C has a diff-scsi port, whereas the machines > have SE. > > Is this easily converted with a cable, or will I be doing resistor- > balancing and/or use a signal converter box? You need a converter box. They're quite expensive new, but sometimes can be found surplus for under $100. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 12 18:08:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 In-Reply-To: References: <041001c2d2d5$bf1bc390$0200a8c0@cosmo> from "Stuart Message-ID: <33280.64.169.63.74.1045094752.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony writes: > Anyone care to guess what the 2 machines are? HP 9810 and 9820 perhaps? I haven't studied them in depth, though at some point I may need to do so in order to get my 9820 working. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Feb 12 18:21:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys Message-ID: <10302130018.ZM21741@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 12, 15:05, wrote: > I bought a xx2247 key from ebay. Just in case others are planning to do the > same, the key appears to be an almost brand new copy. There is a *slight* > amount of rust in the areas that were cut away, but other than that it is > nice shiny new chrome. > > I purchased mine for the starting bid of $10, but they then charged me $10 > more for shipping (actual shipping was $4.30), making for an expensive key. > I called the local locksmith and they will duplicate this type of key for > $6 each. My local keycutting shop cut a copy for just a little less than that. The key style is quite standard. The trick, of course, is getting the first one :-) If anyone in the UK needs one, I can get them cut. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 12 18:22:49 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:48 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Feb 12, 2003 11:58:02 PM Message-ID: <200302130019.h1D0JOS20176@shell1.aracnet.com> > Only prob is.. the HSZ40C has a diff-scsi port, whereas the machines > have SE. > > Is this easily converted with a cable, or will I be doing resistor- > balancing and/or use a signal converter box? Look for a Paralan SE-to-Diff converter box. Zane From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Feb 12 18:41:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? In-Reply-To: References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030212192434.05a2bad0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Pat, The CMD CQD-420/TM design uses a daughter card of which there is a single-ended version and a differential version. The differential version should actually be a little less expensive because most users want the single-ended, and the cost of getting a single-ended daughter card to replace the differential one is expensive. Therefore perhaps better supply and lower demand for differential. I DON'T HAVE ANY OF THESE ANYMORE. THEY WERE SOLD, to a buyer in the mid-west. But you can find them searching Google. But even the differential ones still are more than all but the most exceptional hobbyist would want to get in to. Best Regards At 06:52 PM 2/12/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > All, > > > > Now that I inherited a nice set of StorageWorks enclusures with > > an HSZ40C controller, I might as well use it, no? I plan on > > connecting it to the primary file server of my "fun" network > > (also known as VAXlab, aka pdp11.nl) so I'll have more (and safer) > > storage there. > > > > Only prob is.. the HSZ40C has a diff-scsi port, whereas the machines > > have SE. > > > > Is this easily converted with a cable, or will I be doing resistor- > > balancing and/or use a signal converter box? > >It can't be done with just passive components.. ie you will need either a >differential<->single-ended converter or a differential SCSI card. If >you're using a machine that takes PCI cards, then a card will be cheaper, >but if you're using it with a VAX or PDP-11, etc, I'm doubtful you'll find >a differential-scsi interface, and will need to buy an interface box. > >If you need/want a PCI wide/differential SCSI card, I have several Adaptec >AHA-3944AUWD's (with PC BIOS ROMs) that I would be willing to sell at a >'reasonable' price (probably $40 + shipping). > >As far as 'converter boxes' go, I don't know what one would cost, because >I've never had to buy one. > >Pat >-- >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From spc at conman.org Wed Feb 12 18:57:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Real vs. Virtual vs. Physical (Was: Designing around a 6502 In-Reply-To: <3E4AA96B.6176.BF0D35D@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 12, 2003 08:07:07 PM Message-ID: <200302130055.TAA12645@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Hans Franke once stated: > > > > (*1) Often the term real memory is used, but that's > > > not correct. Physical memory is the memory installed > > > in a machine, while real address space is the addressable > > > amount of RAM by a CPU without using virtual addressing. > > > Virtual address space can never excede real address space > > > (After all, it's the maximum address range generated by > > > the (logical) CPU), while physical memory can go beyond > > > real or virual address space. > > > Virtual address space *can* exceed physical address space---the 80386 (and > > therefore, on topic) is a good example. > > Err... rereading my paragraph, I can't see anything wrong. > I didn't say Virtual can not exceede Physical. Of course it > can. Just to make it clear: > > Physical is the amount of memory installed, or installable. > Real is the address space addressable by a CPU. > Virtual is the address space addressable before translateing. So is "real" the amount of memory directly addressable by the address pins on the CPU? If so, virtual can still exceed real. In OS class, the term "real" was never used, and "virtual" was rarely used; the terms "physical" and "logical" were the terms used most often, where a "logical address" was, through the MMU, translated to a "physical address." > In fact, the 286 would have been the right example here. it > could address 16M physical, while real and virtual addressing > was still limited to 64K or 1 MB. Um, I don't quite follow this. While at any given moment you could only see 256K (64K code space (CS), 64K data space (DS), 64K stack (SS) and 64K of other (ES)) you could still gain access to all 16M of memory (using a loop that cycled through all of memory). I'm still not following your definition of "real." > > -spc (And attempting to use all 64TB would probably cosume huge amounts > > of physical RAM just for the lookup tables ... ) > > Nop. you always have only a maximum of 2^13 descriptors. > no mater how big the segments are. So if you use all > 8192 Entries, the table is just 64K ... Nice value :) > IIRC a entry has 8 bytes, containing base, limit, type, privs. > > So nom matter if you used a physical memory of 1 MB, or > 4 GB, each descriptor table could only grow up to 64k. > Hmm... oh, yes, there have been more tables: Local, > Global, Task... Still, it comes up to a maximum of 256K. Ah, but then you don't have a fully usable 4G segment, just a 3.75G segment. I want a full 4G per segment, which then means you need to use paging, which is a second layer of address mapping the 386 can do and that's where you start getting these huge page tables ... -spc (So you have a logical address going to a linear address going to a physical address ... ) From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Feb 12 19:04:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Philips P5003 = Micom 2001 Message-ID: <3E4A98EE.29240.776E765@localhost> I tracked down some new info on the Micom (which I've blathered about before). On the great NL computer site : Allard's computermuseum Groningen http://drake.nl/computermuseum/philips/p5003.html is a new(?) addition, the Philips P5003. It is basicly a copy of the Micom 2001 which Philips had acquired when they bought a big chunk of the Canadian company Micom The 2001 was the next model after the original 2000 (which was introduced in 76) and differed in that it had an attached keyboard. The boards in the P5003, which came out in 79/80, are basicly the same as in the 2000 and are even labeled as such. They can be compared with those on Bill Sudbrinks site. http://wsudbrink.dyndns.org:8080/osi/micom2000.html The Groningen site also has a nice shot of another canadian machine. An AES which is credited with being the first programmable wordprocessor and was a previous start-up by Stephen Dorsey who also founded Micom. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Feb 12 19:16:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Fw: [OT ... but ...] RS/6000 stuff in Munich - go and get it ! Message-ID: <008901c2d2fd$6472a8f0$7d00a8c0@george> Saw this on spamnet news. No association, replys to original author, etc., etc., etc. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "" <> Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:17 PM Subject: [OT ... but ...] RS/6000 stuff in Munich - go and get it ! > Hi ! > > Recently I got a mail from Florian Wolf (wolf -at- ingeniq.de), who offered > RS/6000 machines for those capable to lug them home. He doesn't give the > Models, but one is a -55L (big server - 7012 I would say) with CD and tape, two > are desktops -370 (7012 too I think) and one -43P (?). All are in good order, > look complete and have E(i)thernet cards inside. > > They have to move latest at the end of next week or else they are crapped. > > Leave me a note or write or write Florian in direct mail. And: you *need* to be > capable to pick them up in Munich. Arrangements *might* be possible like for > instance to pick them up at Florians place and not where they are now - but > that's matter of individual negotiations. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 12 19:28:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > According to the O&A TechRef, there are 2 distinct 40 cylinder drives : > The 'Slimline' drive used in the PortablePC and PCjr. This des not have > the asterisk Originally a Qume "Qumetrak 142"? They existed BEFORE the 1.2M was released, and therefore before the asterisk. Which brings up that when I listed the various parameters that might matter, I failed to include step rate. The Qume drive was arguably the first "half height" 5.25" drive, and it was SO slow that changes needed to be made in the OS to keep from timing out waiting for it to seek. Some say that it was the worst drive ever sold; I don't agree - I had some BASF 2/3 height drives that were worse. > The double density (360K) drive for the PC/AT. This does have the asterisk. > They are difference electrically (made by difference companies?). I think > the use of pin 34 on the connector differs too. At about the time that the 1.2M was released, there was a change in the use of pin 34. One use was "READY"? the other was "DISK CHANGED"? > Officially you shouldn't interchange them. But that never stops us. From thompson at new.rr.com Wed Feb 12 19:29:44 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? In-Reply-To: <33277.64.169.63.74.1045094576.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: The DWZZB is a Storageworks building block component (in at least one of its forms) intended to allow a diff scsi card to talk to a SE storageworks shelf. I don't know if you can cable your VAX to the SE port of an empty storageworks shelf and the HSZ to the differential end of the DWZZB and have it work that way...I guess in theory it would work. On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Only prob is.. the HSZ40C has a diff-scsi port, whereas the machines > > have SE. > > > > Is this easily converted with a cable, or will I be doing resistor- > > balancing and/or use a signal converter box? > > You need a converter box. They're quite expensive new, but sometimes > can be found surplus for under $100. > -- From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 12 20:10:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: <3E4A9E2E.DFA8201B@rain.org> Message-ID: > > sided, 48TPI v 96TPI (the 100TPI is VERY "rare and valuable"), and amongst On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Good grief, I must be rich and didn't realize it with a box of 100 TPI > drives (used on Micropolis systems and Vector Graphic systems IIRC :). Yep just as soon as we can find "the bigger fool" to buy them! From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 12 20:19:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030212001942.02c9c010@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > soapy water and soft old toothbrushes. I also have a bench brush I like to > use with the ultrasonic exploded ends (very soft, very fine). > > BTW I always wear gloves, at least a pair of exam gloves, most often huge > red vinyl monsters that go half way to my elbows. Kinky! Or do you just wear them when cleaning boards? Cheap electric toothbrushes (and there are now some that are VERY cheap) can work well for scrubbing. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 12 21:17:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys In-Reply-To: <10302130018.ZM21741@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20030213031515.68307.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Peter Turnbull wrote: > On Feb 12, 15:05, wrote: > > I bought a xx2247 key from ebay... > > > > I purchased mine for the starting bid of $10, but they then charged > > me $10 more for shipping... Ow! > > I called the local locksmith and they will duplicate this type of key > > for $6 each. That sounds about right. > My local keycutting shop cut a copy for just a little less than that. > The key style is quite standard. The trick, of course, is getting the > first one :-) Not really... the point of the XX2247 is that a full-service locksmith should be able to cross-reference that to a set of key depths, _presuming_ they can code-cut a 7-pin round key (not a universal expectation). My experience with code-cut keys is that a) they cut it, you pay, fit or no fit, and b) it's a few $$$ more than a copy. IIRC, it's about $15 around here to code-cut a key at places that can do so (takes more skill than operating a duplicating machine, so they charge more for the skilled labor). By comparison, WalMart charges around $2.50 for copying an automobile key (but don't lose your original if you have an anti-theft key with an embedded resistor; that's well over $50 to replace! - they have to try 16 resistor possibilities and wait in between each one for the car to reset). Another word to the wise on DEC keys - if you have a newer PDP-11 (11/24, for example) or a newer keyed VAX (like my 8200) with the *plastic* lock body - there are no tumblers. A key blank will operate your machine - DEC shipped an orangish-red plastic key with those systems, but the older keys (or a blank) will turn the lock. Metal lock bodies on older machines (PDP-8/L, PDP-8/e, VAX-11/780, VAX-11/750...) do require a key, 99% of the time it's the XX2247 (but I have *one* PSU with a different one - it was a customer option). -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 12 21:27:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: ELT-320 working! (was Re: Who here has a Planar ELT-320?) In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030212170555.01a38a80@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20030213032518.69365.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tom Uban wrote: > Sorry, but my hard drive crashed and my DSL went down, both in the same > week and unrelated... Thanks for responding (but between a helpful post on classiccmp from Mark Roberts and cracking mine open to meg it out myself, I'm up and running ;-). I put a 12V switcher I got at Dayton for about $5 in an ancient and long empty external 400K Mac drive case (belonged to my mother when the drive inside died over 12 years ago) and wired it up to a C-64 drive cable half I got from the thrift store (someone spliced their own extension cable in the middle by twisting the wires and encasing it all in PVC tape :-P ) Worked the first time. So now I'll have an flat-screen terminal powered by a PSU in a Mac drive case, talking to a portable PDP-8 in an Amiga drive case. Guess I should post some pictures of that. :-) -ethan From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Feb 12 21:33:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89 Intro Message-ID: <200302130331.TAA11846@clulw009.amd.com> >From: knightstalkerbob@netscape.net > >"Jason J. Gullickson" wrote: > >>I recently acquired what I believe to be a Heathkit H89. It was >>assembled a long time ago by my friend's father, contains a single disk >>drive and a monochrome terminal. >> >>My ultimate goal would be to get this thing running CPM and a C >>compiler, but first I need to figure out if it's working. >> >>I've yet to determine if it has a hard or soft-sectored disk controller, >>but I have some general questions since I don't have any documentation. Hi Sorry, I lost the first message. One can tell if it is hard or soft sectored by the controller card. The hard sectored has a uart ( or usart ) chip and the soft sectored has one of the typical FD controller chips. I think it may have been a Western Digital that they used. The other problem is that CPM requires RAM at the lower addresses. You'll need to make the modification that allows one to shadow the ROM. I suspect that it is either on this groups archives or you might look in the news group comp.os.cpm. I've seen it talked about someplace. Dwight From jss at subatomix.com Wed Feb 12 22:12:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Nice CPUs (was: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 )) In-Reply-To: <3E4AB688.13385.C240E5A@localhost> References: <3E4AAF14.5030.C06EF56@localhost> <3E4AB688.13385.C240E5A@localhost> Message-ID: <451863699.20030212221007@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, February 12, 2003, Hans Franke wrote: >>> I don't know anything which can't be done in a megabyte of mem. >> How about a database record sort on a field with a data length greater >> than 1MB? HF> read the fields to compare in chunks of max say 64K (well in reality i'd HF> use the block/cluster size of the drive) and compare it. Read from where? What drive? You assume too much. -- Jeffrey Sharp From pietstan at rogers.com Wed Feb 12 22:15:00 2003 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3E4B1ABD.5050301@rogers.com> Is the HSZ40C in a StorageWorks brick, or is it built into a tower? The reason I'm asking is because my HSZ20 is a tower (with dual power supplies in the back, not SBB bricks), and it has an internal DWZZB.... In other words, the port on the back of the enclosure is SCSI-diff, but the host port on the controller, as well as the 2 disk channels are single-ended. I was even contemplating pulling the DWZZB if I hadn't found a PCI SCSI-diff card. Stan Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > All, > > Now that I inherited a nice set of StorageWorks enclusures with > an HSZ40C controller, I might as well use it, no? I plan on > connecting it to the primary file server of my "fun" network > (also known as VAXlab, aka pdp11.nl) so I'll have more (and safer) > storage there. > > Only prob is.. the HSZ40C has a diff-scsi port, whereas the machines > have SE. > > Is this easily converted with a cable, or will I be doing resistor- > balancing and/or use a signal converter box? > > Thx, > Fred From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 12 22:32:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Home to remove monumental grime? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > Waht cotnact cleaner did you use? I've found soaking the boards in > fairly pure propan-2-ol shifts a lot of gunge and doesn't harm the > components. Isohexane 107-83-5, n-Hexane 110-54-3, Methanol 67-56-1, Petroleum Distillate 64742-48-9, Carbon Dioxide 124-38-9. Commercial trade name is CRC QD Contact Cleaner. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gwynn at powwwer.net Wed Feb 12 22:53:00 2003 From: gwynn at powwwer.net (Gary Wilson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Epson HX-40 ??? Message-ID: <3E48B1E9.000003.01636@wilson> Cord try doing a Google search using PX-4 as the search, which is the basic p/n for that unit (PX-4/HX-40) . I did and came up with all kinds of info, including a site that lets you ftp download a bunch of rom ifo (Like the BASIC rom). Good luck. GWW From ligkig at hotmail.com Wed Feb 12 22:53:41 2003 From: ligkig at hotmail.com (Ricky) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Gridcase 1530 Message-ID: Dear Sir, Greetings form Geolab! We are formed in 1991 as an independent multi-discplinary Geotechnical, Environmental and Construction Materials Service firm providing engineering and scientific consulting, subsurface exploration and testing services to both public and private sector clients. At this moment, we are using Gridcase 1530 (386) for the purpose of doing our Pile Drive Analysis Test (PDA Test). Due to this computer is an old unit, we frequently facing problem that bother us once we turn on the computer. The monitor always promp the error as stated below: "Invalid configuration Information : Code 02 Strike F1 key to continue" However, once we strike the F1 key, another error will occur named, Disk Boot Errores. We really appreciate if you can help us out in this matter as soon as possible, this computer is really valuable for our department. We hope to hear from you soon. Thank you for your kind attention. Regards, Ricky Engineer ligkig@hotmail.com From aek at spies.com Wed Feb 12 22:54:09 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: More 11/44 basic newbie help request Message-ID: <200302111613.h1BGDI5U024640@spies.com> the design of having to change backplane wiring for certain cards seems to be rather... ummmm silly -- this dates back to the days when a DMA interface wouldn't fit into a single SPC (small peripheral controller) board. at least they eventually produced G7273 unibus grant jumpers which aren't little nasty tear-the-back-of-your-hand-off boards like the G727's are, and have both BR and bus grant jumpers on them. These were standard in 11/44's, weren't they? so your SPC slots shouldn't have the bus grant jumpers on them.. From root at parse.com Wed Feb 12 23:06:53 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Need PDP-8 Flip Chip modules In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 10, 2003 10:16:27 AM Message-ID: <200302111943.OAA23767@parse.com> Vintage Computer Festival sez... > > I am in need of the following Flip Chip modules: > > R302 (3) I have two of these... and none of the others. Mine are in an unknown state... Email me off-list to discuss. Cheers, -RK > R604 (2) > R002 > S111 (7) > S602 (2) > R210 (8) > > If you have any spares that you wouldn't mind trading or selling away, > please contact me directly . > > Thanks! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed Feb 12 23:09:17 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: More 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <009801c2d1de$d7164120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3487.4.20.168.230.1044903584.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <009801c2d1de$d7164120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1045112274.2115.21.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Tue, 2003-02-11 at 07:04, Jay West wrote: > Eric wrote... > > Get the manuals from Al's site. > > You know... I think I've just been told "RTFM" *grin* > S'ok, was well deserved :) > > After perusing the manuals for the 11/44 and the RL02's, and the RL11 > (looking for docs on the 8 port mux now).... Most of my questions are > answered there (big suprise). Not trying to start any holy wars or anything, > but to my "newbie with unibus" mind, the design of having to change > backplane wiring for certain cards seems to be rather... ummmm silly > (euphamism{tm}), at least as compared to other systems of the period. > Probably there is something I'm missing as to why this is a good thing. > There are a few areas that I'm not quite sure I get what the manual is > saying though, perhaps others can clarify WRT card positioning & > requirements. I'm sure there was some history there. I think one of the reasons DEC came up with the G7273 grand card was so that folks didn't need to re-add the wire when an NPR device was removed. It was full hight as opposed to the G727A "knuckle buster" which I usually find I have to remove the surrounding cards inorder to remove it so I can put in a new card. Part of the issue here is that the signal is daisy chained. That is, it passes through each device in turn down the bus. That's why devices that are "closer" to the processor are higher priority -- it has first chance at responding to a signal and blocking those farther away. The problem that you've discovered is that in order to do that you have to have something to propogate the signal if nothing is plugged into the slot. Early on there were relatively few NPR devices relative to the number of slots. So DEC probably made a cost decision which was to put the wire in for every slot -- an FE would remove it if an NPR device was added and re-add it if the NPR device was (re)moved. > > Regarding the unibus terminator card...M9302 - everyone says "the last slot > of the unibus". Does this mean physically the last slot in the backplane, or > "logically the last slot of the unibus" meaning after the last card? I'm > guessing the former, because it sounds like the last slot of the backplane > has different wiring, and hence the need for lots-o-grant-cards. > That's the aproach that I take (which is why I buy all I can get my hands on). > The manual states that for each open SPC slot, you have to use a grant card. > But it's a little unclear as to "SPC" slot. In the "main" backplane, there > is a hex SPC slot and a quad? SPC slot after the memory, the AB spots on the > 2nd SPC slot being for the 9202 jumper card. This gives rise to a few > questions: If the last 2 slots in the "main" backplane are for SPC, are the > remaining slots (in the 2nd backplane, AFTER the 9202 jumper) SPC slots? I > assume you need a grant card in the hex SPC slot if nothing is there. But > what about the quad SPC slot that also has the 9202 in it - does that slot > need a grant card too? And about the 1st slot in the 2nd backplane that has > the other side of the 9202 in it - that needs a grant card as well? I'm > assuming it does... SPC = Small Peripheral Controller. Typically these are quad or hex hight cards. Quad cards go into C-F. So they can occupy the same physical slot as say an M9202 (or a terminator). Hex cards must go into a slot all by themselves (duh). Got to http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/11-10/index.html. At the bottom of the page is a layout of the slots in my 11/10 including all of the grant cards, terminators and bus jumpers. > So in the example where you have no cards at all in the 2nd backplane except > the initial 9202 and the final 9302 at the other end.. you must have a grant > in every one of those open slots? If so, ummm I need a bunch of grant cards! > Anyone have some to trade? > > I think that's the main questions - the rest makes pretty good sense and is > fairly clear in the manual. Thanks a bunch! > > Jay West -- TTFN - Guy From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Feb 12 23:10:02 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: HP 7980S's at Boeing Surplus Message-ID: <200302122103210485.0F369818@192.168.42.130> Hey, gang, Those of you in the Puget Sound area, or near enough to it to get to Kent, WA with a minimum of hassle, may be interested to know that there are three HP 7980S SCSI 9-track tape drives at Boeing Surplus, $50.00 Ea. They look like they were pulls from a big HP mini. Enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 12 23:10:44 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > According to the O&A TechRef, there are 2 distinct 40 cylinder drives : > > The 'Slimline' drive used in the PortablePC and PCjr. This des not have > > the asterisk > > Originally a Qume "Qumetrak 142"? > They existed BEFORE the 1.2M was released, and therefore before the > asterisk. > > Which brings up that when I listed the various parameters that might > matter, I failed to include step rate. The Qume drive was arguably the > first "half height" 5.25" drive, and it was SO slow that changes needed to > be made in the OS to keep from timing out waiting for it to seek. > Some say that it was the worst drive ever sold; I don't agree - I had some > BASF 2/3 height drives that were worse. Don't forget the Remex 2/3 height drives. Probably the noisiest 5.25" drives I ever ran across, but seemingly could not be killed! - don > > The double density (360K) drive for the PC/AT. This does have the asterisk. > > They are difference electrically (made by difference companies?). I think > > the use of pin 34 on the connector differs too. > > At about the time that the 1.2M was released, there was a change in the > use of pin 34. One use was "READY"? the other was "DISK CHANGED"? > > > Officially you shouldn't interchange them. > But that never stops us. From kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com Wed Feb 12 23:11:14 2003 From: kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems References: <3E48FE7A.27173.29CAE5A0@localhost> Message-ID: <3E4B281C.967B485F@reeltapetransfer.com> > It's probably too old for full parisc-linux support. > (www.parisc-linux.org) > I was somewhat surprised, but happy that my G40 installed HPUX 11i. It seems to run ok, but slow with the default 128M memory. Just added 256M, and will be running more tests soon. Keven Miller From sieler at allegro.com Wed Feb 12 23:11:58 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB779@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <3E48FE7A.27173.29CAE5A0@localhost> Re: > Anyone out there have experience with HP 9000 "Nova" class systems? > Specifically the 9000/800 I40 especially, but any in the class. The I40, aka 9000/877, is a 64MHz PA-RISC (PA7000) computer based on HP-PB I/O. Cache: 256 KB data, 256 KB code. Max memory is officially 768 MB, but I suspect that third party boards can take you to twice that. It's probably too old for full parisc-linux support. (www.parisc-linux.org) -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From james at jfc.org.uk Wed Feb 12 23:12:29 2003 From: james at jfc.org.uk (James Carter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Designing around a 6502 (was Re: Assembly on a Apple IIc+) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1045007651.335.18.camel@voltaire.home.net> On Tue, 2003-02-11 at 04:47, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Are there any 6502-based > machines that used an MMU for hardware-based multitasking? the homebuilt CS/A65 features hardware MMU. i'm sure plenty of other homebuilt 6502 systems do too. http://www.6502.org/users/andre/csa/index.html http://www.6502.org/homemade.htm -- J.F.Carter http://www.jfc.org.uk/ From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Feb 12 23:12:58 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Atari ST Help References: <20030207170326.60579.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004601c2d237$77535760$0b01010a@cvendel> Hi Al, Hey dude, good to see you still around too! Trenton Computer Faire in May, huh??? I may have to make a trip down there if the picken's are good. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Hartman" To: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:03 PM Subject: Re: Atari ST Help > Hi Curt! > > Yes, I know about that site, but they want WAY too > much money for a used adapter for an old computer. > > You would think that at this point, they'd be about > $20.00 or so, since I can buy whole ST's for about > that price. I just can't justify spending $150.00 or > more to put a hard drive on a $20.00 computer. > > I just want to play... > > So, I'll keep looking. Maybe I'll spot something cheap > on eBay or at the Trenton Computer Festival in May. > > AERCO was a small Texas company that made little > gadgets for the Atari ST, Amiga and Timex/Sinclair > computers. When I worked for Zebra Systems, Inc. We > sold their products... > > Regards, > Al > > > > From: "Curt Vendel" > > Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:13:41 -0500 > > > > Hi Al, > > > > Never heard of that particular memory board > > before, don't know where you can get a manual. > > For a HD you can go to www.myatari.com and buy > > a "ICD LINK" Adapter which will give your DMA/ASCI > > port full SCSI capabilities, also ask them about > > ExtenDOS Gold, its a drivers disk that will allow > > the TOS to recognize and use CD-ROM drives too, they > > also have a large selection of ST software on > > CDROM's > > > > > > > > Curt From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Feb 12 23:13:31 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Atari ST Help References: <200302071714.MAA08682@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <004b01c2d238$194d19c0$0b01010a@cvendel> Al actually has a very good point, the Atari DMA port is also referred to as an ASCI (Atari Small Computer Interface) which basically translates into (Atari wanted to keep costs down so they incorporated a cheapo semi-SCSI port where the drives would incorporate an Adaptec adapter or semi interface) so then the HD's would be more expensive... go figure. Well the Link II and ADscsi interface are just a small handful of chips and I think a PAL 16L8 and some connectors, so there is not much there and quite frankly that really should cost about $19.99 each these days, but its that pesky PAL on it that causes the issue, since ICD no longer makes them and you can only use what little existing stock that is still around, they sell at a premium, kinda s*cks. Yeah, Ebay is gonna be your best hope I supposed.... you could always keep an eye out for a Mega STe or TT030 or a Falcon030, the Mega STe and TT030 has DB25 SCSI 1 ports, the Falcon has a SCSI II port on it Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:14 PM Subject: Re: Atari ST Help > And thusly Al Hartman spake: > > > > You would think that at this point, they'd be about > > $20.00 or so, since I can buy whole ST's for about > > that price. I just can't justify spending $150.00 or > > more to put a hard drive on a $20.00 computer. > > An IDE card for the C64 is $89 US and the SCSI controller is $249. > > Cheers, > > Bryan > > P.S. The SCSI drive (CMD-HD) acts just like a 1541 drive.. ie it is a > "smart" device. From mike at ambientdesign.com Wed Feb 12 23:14:03 2003 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (Mike van Bokhoven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Kaypro II References: <161F160E.3FBC61E0.CF1A260E@netscape.net> Message-ID: <002501c2d28e$c8538160$3d00a8c0@falco> Hi all, Just thought I'd recount some experiences with a Kaypro II and associated manuals, kindly given to me by a friend. First, a couple of requests. - Does anyone have any keyboard parts for Kaypro II keyboards, or a complete spare keyboard? I'm not sure if the keyboard actually works, but its obvious faults are that it's missing the 3 key, and the keyswitch for that key is damaged. Also, the 4-pin cable connector on the keyboard is broken, though it will still take the plug. This is a common 4-pin telecom-type socket as found on a lot of telephones. The keyboard was made by Maxi-Switch Co, model Maxikey, keyboard number 2160150, PC board number 630184. - Does anyone know if it's possible to write Kaypro disks with a PC and 5 1/4 inch drive? If not - any hints on where to dig up software? Now, on to my, um, interesting experience with this machine. The friend who gave me the machine told me that it had been running fairly recently (within the last couple of years, anyway), so I figured chances are it'd start up OK. On disassembling it, I found it absolutely spotless inside, so I put it back together and ran it up. Everything went superbly for about fifteen seconds; long enough for me to get my fingers off the power switch around the back. But just then, there was an ominous hissing sound, followed by one of the loudest BANGs I've heard from a piece of electronic equipment. Since I was completely unprepared for it, it took me a couple of seconds to get my hand around the back again and turn the thing off. Most interesting was during those two seconds after the explosion, the machine continued running fine, not so much as a waver on the monitor. Pulling it apart again, guess what - dead capacitor. But, not one of the electrolytics that you'd expect, it was the AC filter capacitor that had spread itself all over the inside of the case. Having seen that, and performed a quick tidy-up, I verified that the machine still ran fine. Now I just need some software for it, to find out whether the whole thing is in working order! Mike. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 12 23:14:33 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 1 Level II In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA3A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: Hi classiccmpers, Today I had a chance to take the car on a bit of a mountain run over to the Lake District (in the UK, natch :) to pick up said machine from the current owner who wanted to give it a good home. I thought it was just the machine and the monitor, but it turns out it's machine, monitor, expansion unit, dual disk drives, barrel-loads of software on tape and disk, documentation AND several TRS80 catalogues and adverts from the day including price lists from 1980 and 1981. Oh, and the original receipts. And it's all bagged and fully boxed :) The only downside is you get garbage on screen at powerup, but given the age of the machine I'd take a stab at bad RAM since both my PET 2001 and UK101s had that problem and both were fixed by new video RAM. I'll do a full inventory if anyone's interested, and pics will be up on Binary Dinosaurs soon. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de Wed Feb 12 23:15:04 2003 From: thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: interesting find In-Reply-To: <002e01c2ce4b$67b8d270$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: On 07-Feb-2003 Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > I've only seen two types of cores. Though I'm sure there are many > others as I've never had a machine of my own which used it. > > The Rods you speak of may be RUBY? Hold it up to shine light through > them. The ruby cores look mighty pretty. I had a closer look at it today - no ruby, but nevertheless an interesting artifact... ;-) bye Thilo From thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de Wed Feb 12 23:15:37 2003 From: thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: another free VAX in Germany In-Reply-To: <20030212155750.GA18498@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de> Message-ID: The Vax is claimed - after 9 minutes ;-) From vance at neurotica.com Wed Feb 12 23:16:06 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Nice CPUs (was: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 )) In-Reply-To: <3E4AAF14.5030.C06EF56@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > I like the 186 myself but have to admit that the time for segmented > > memory has passed, in general purpose computing. > > Well, define general purpose computing. In my eyes this describes real > computers ... ala IBMish Mainframes, and Segmented memory never had a > place there. When going for small systems, the 186 is still one of the > best CPUs to use. Powerfull, fast, simple and high integrated. I don't > know anything which can't be done in a megabyte of mem. How about a database record sort on a field with a data length greater than 1MB? Peace... Sridhar From mr at jasongullickson.com Wed Feb 12 23:16:37 2003 From: mr at jasongullickson.com (Jason J. Gullickson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89 Intro Message-ID: <153D0FAADC2C90459D202D16D24A94AE422460@exch1.inacom-msn.com> I recently acquired what I believe to be a Heathkit H89. It was assembled a long time ago by my friend's father, contains a single disk drive and a monochrome terminal. My ultimate goal would be to get this thing running CPM and a C compiler, but first I need to figure out if it's working. I've yet to determine if it has a hard or soft-sectored disk controller, but I have some general questions since I don't have any documentation. First, where can I get some documentation? ; ) Second, when I turn the machine on, all I get is a blinking cursor. If I depress the "offline" key, I can type characters on the terminal accompanied by a short beep; if the "offline" key is not depressed, I get long beeps and nothing on the display. What "should" it do when I turn it on with no disk in the drive? I'll be happy to provide more info as I dig it up, but any introductory details on this system or references to websites, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Jason J. Gullickson mr@jasongullickson.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 12 23:54:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: More 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <200302111613.h1BGDI5U024640@spies.com> Message-ID: <20030213055208.16970.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Al Kossow wrote: > at least they eventually produced G7273 unibus grant jumpers which > aren't little nasty tear-the-back-of-your-hand-off boards like the > G727's are, and have both BR and bus grant jumpers on them. These > were standard in 11/44's, weren't they? so your SPC slots shouldn't > have the bus grant jumpers on them.. If anyone needs any, I have a bunch we made and shipped with each Unibus COMBOARD. Write me off-list to discuss. -ethan From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Feb 13 00:16:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 ) References: <200302121908.LAA10833@clulw009.amd.com> <3E4AA0D6.4030201@jetnet.ab.ca> <32893.64.169.63.74.1045079856.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030212162451.0276d928@mail.30below.com> <3E4ACAE7.3040308@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <087301c2d327$0f1efeb0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ben franchuk" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:29 PM Subject: Re: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 ) > Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > So where would that put the Hitachi 63C09? It's 6809 compatible, but in > > 6309 mode, it has 4 8-bit registers, combinable to 2 16-bit registers > > that you can do full 16-bit arithmetic on... but wait! There's More! No, > > not Ginsu Knives..... > > Having brought the subject up, I tend to think the 6809 is a 16 bit cpu > because of the good addressing modes and the Intel 8086 a 8 bit cpu > because of the lack of them. Also OS/9 for the 6809 was very > nice system. Ben. I suppose then that the 8080 is a 16 bit computer because the HL register pair could be used as a 16 bit pointer? I am a LONG time programmer & system builder and what opinions I have were developed on my own - through experience. Your mileage may vary. One criteria you may have overlooked regarding the designation of a computer as 8, 16, or other width is how wide is the memory bus? For the 6809, 6502, 8080, etc., the memory width is 8 bits. Also, I didn't say that the 6809 and related chips weren't useful or good chips - just that in my opinion (and the manufacturers as well), the 6809 was an 8 bit chip. There were some nice systems built using it; including one I hand made for a friend. I think he ran FLEX on it. Stuart Johnson From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Feb 13 00:41:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 ) In-Reply-To: <087301c2d327$0f1efeb0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <005301c2d32a$95049d70$020010ac@k4jcw> I always liked the 6809. I had a small FLEX system for a while that was fun. But sadly, Motorola managed to blow their own head off with the 6809, compared to the market share it could have had. "OK, 6809s are available this quarter. The 6809e will be next quarter. Oh yea, and three quarters out is the 68000." Only a small percentage of the market didn't wait. Especially after the 68000 as a microcode core was validated by GM buying up so much of the production. According to friend of mine that worked at IBM, the 6809 was a serious candidate for the what became the PC (remember that the original PC had a projected market-life of 1 year, and the IBM was getting out of that fad). What drove the the PC to use the 8088 was the fact that they had 10 Intel blueboxes sitting around from the DisplayWriter. Since the PC was to some extent a non-officially sanctioned project, they elected to use the tools on hand, rather than purchase Exorcisor development systems. The rest was history (and my friend has serial #0001 of the PC Jr, and the first 5MB HD. He also was the developer of the PC Jr. speech system. Another buddy was the lead architect on the VGA. Did you know that approximately 30% of the logic in the VGA was put there because it was on the CGA and no-one knew what it did? And management wanted the lowest compatibility risk path.) Somewhere, I even still have a small 6809e system I point-to-pointed on a piece of that gawd-awful Radio Shack phenolic board with the single side copper pads. I think it has a modified MikBug monitor on it. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Stuart Johnson > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 01:14 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing > around a 6502 > ) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ben franchuk" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:29 PM > Subject: Re: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing > around a 6502 ) > > > > Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > > > So where would that put the Hitachi 63C09? It's 6809 > compatible, but in > > > 6309 mode, it has 4 8-bit registers, combinable to 2 > 16-bit registers > > > that you can do full 16-bit arithmetic on... but wait! > There's More! No, > > > not Ginsu Knives..... > > > > Having brought the subject up, I tend to think the 6809 is > a 16 bit cpu > > because of the good addressing modes and the Intel 8086 a 8 bit cpu > > because of the lack of them. Also OS/9 for the 6809 was very > > nice system. Ben. > > I suppose then that the 8080 is a 16 bit computer because the > HL register > pair could be used as a 16 bit pointer? > > I am a LONG time programmer & system builder and what > opinions I have were > developed on my own - through experience. Your mileage may vary. > > One criteria you may have overlooked regarding the > designation of a computer > as 8, 16, or other width is how wide is the memory bus? For > the 6809, 6502, > 8080, etc., the memory width is 8 bits. > > Also, I didn't say that the 6809 and related chips weren't > useful or good > chips - just that in my opinion (and the manufacturers as > well), the 6809 > was an 8 bit chip. There were some nice systems built using > it; including > one I hand made for a friend. I think he ran FLEX on it. > > Stuart Johnson From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 13 01:02:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: More 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <200302111613.h1BGDI5U024640@spies.com> References: <200302111613.h1BGDI5U024640@spies.com> Message-ID: <33628.64.169.63.74.1045119562.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Al Kossow wrote: > at least they eventually produced G7273 unibus grant jumpers which > aren't little nasty tear-the-back-of-your-hand-off boards like the > G727's are, and have both BR and bus grant jumpers on them. These > were standard in 11/44's, weren't they? so your SPC slots shouldn't have > the bus grant jumpers on them.. Sadly not. The 11/44 still shipped with jumpers rather than G7273 cards. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Feb 13 01:05:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Nice CPUs (was: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 )) In-Reply-To: <451863699.20030212221007@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Wednesday, February 12, 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > >>> I don't know anything which can't be done in a megabyte of mem. > > >> How about a database record sort on a field with a data length greater > >> than 1MB? > > HF> read the fields to compare in chunks of max say 64K (well in reality i'd > HF> use the block/cluster size of the drive) and compare it. > > Read from where? What drive? You assume too much. I'd tend to guess that the 1MB fields probably come from the storage device holding the database... Unless you're assuming that the database is stored in someone's brain, and that they're toggling in those 1MB fields on the console switches. The original problem has the given of there being a database. I think we can safely assume that there's at least one "table" in the database, and that within this table there is more than one record--otherwise the excercise of sorting it would be rather silly--and that those records have at least one field of 1MB in size. The original problem implied there were more though, which would make the task more challenging. The other given is that you've a machine with 1MB of RAM. So... it very logically /follows/ that this database has to live somewhere, and it has to live somewhere that's not in RAM. Whether one assumes it's on a floppy disk, a hard disk, tape drive, paper tape, punch cards, or that it's being interactively toggled in via the console switches--the process being suggested for sorting it still holds, albeit with varying degrees of performance. Hans' assumption of it being disk I/O based is the most sensible of those options, but the general approach of his solution is valid with any of the other alternatives. And if you assume you don't have some sort of I/O channel for accessing this database, the problem most assuredly won't be with not having enough RAM! Actually, there are two other options: (1) the database is entirely in RAM, it has one table, with one record, with one field of precisely 1MB in size, or (2) the database has zero records. In either of those cases, you don't even need to write a sorting program since the tables are already sorted. -brian. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Feb 13 03:08:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > All, > Only prob is.. the HSZ40C has a diff-scsi port, whereas the machines > have SE. > > Is this easily converted with a cable, or will I be doing resistor- > balancing and/or use a signal converter box? Fred, I have a couple of DEC Wide-FWD conversion modules. P/N DWZZA-VA Look 'em up, and if that fits your bill, I'll send you one for shipping costs. Doc From dmabry at mich.com Thu Feb 13 05:30:01 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Gridcase 1530 References: Message-ID: <3E4B806E.5040103@mich.com> Likely the problem is the lithium battery has died. They generally last a few years in this machine. It is under the cover that is around the keyboard and is soldered into a board. You have to disassemble the machine, first by taking the screws from the back, where the connectors are, out. Then the cover behind the display will come off. At that point you might see the battery. I can't remember if you also need to take the plastic cover over the keyboard off. The battery is a 3.6 volt lithium, about the size if a AA, maybe shorter. It is a standard battery. The only trick is that it is soldered in, so you have to deal with that. The message you are getting probably means it is very low. You should see the internal time-of-day clock either losing time or not changing at all. At some point it will revert back to some default, like 1/1/80. Ricky wrote: > Dear Sir, > > Greetings form Geolab! We are formed in 1991 as an independent > multi-discplinary Geotechnical, Environmental and Construction Materials > Service firm providing engineering and scientific consulting, subsurface > exploration and testing services to both public and private sector clients. > > At this moment, we are using Gridcase 1530 (386) for the purpose of doing our > Pile Drive Analysis Test (PDA Test). Due to this computer is an old unit, we > frequently facing problem that bother us once we turn on the computer. The > monitor always promp the error as stated below: > > "Invalid configuration Information : Code 02 > > Strike F1 key to continue" > > However, once we strike the F1 key, another error will occur named, Disk Boot > Errores. > > We really appreciate if you can help us out in this matter as soon as > possible, this computer is really valuable for our department. We hope to hear > from you soon. > > Thank you for your kind attention. > > Regards, > > Ricky > > Engineer > > ligkig@hotmail.com > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From fm.arnold at gmx.net Thu Feb 13 07:21:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys In-Reply-To: <20030213044517.57560.55298.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030213044517.57560.55298.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 12.02.2003: >--------------------- >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:05:43 -0600 (CST) >From: >To: cctech@classiccmp.org >Subject: DEC xx2247 keys >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >I bought a xx2247 key from ebay. Just in case others are planning to do the >same, the key appears to be an almost brand new copy. There is a *slight* >amount of rust in the areas that were cut away, but other than that it is >nice shiny new chrome. > >I purchased mine for the starting bid of $10, but they then charged me $10 >more for shipping (actual shipping was $4.30), making for an expensive key. Thats a general problem on Ebay, seller tend to cover their listing-costs into the "shipping" or "handling" fees they charge. Your only chance to make this clear is a mail to the seller on this before you bid. Make clear that you will only bid if the seller follows the rates of e.g. USPS or some other shippingcompany. Then you have the choice to take or to leave it. >I called the local locksmith and they will duplicate this type of key for >$6 each. The other thing to note is that the key I obtained from Ebay auction >is stamped Do Not Duplicate, which the original DEC keys (I have 2) do not say. > >I figure they had a original copied a few years back, and added the Do Not >Duplicate just in case a customer needed more than 1 key, so they would >have to pay through the nose for it. On my PDP8E I have a similar key, also having this text. Thatone is original however. So there seems to be both versions to be around. > >Now I see they have the starting bid boosted to $25, for a non-original >duplicate key, what a load of... That way too expensive, hope they don't sell it and come back on the carpet. > >PS: I happen to have the locking mechanism disconnected from a PDP 8/E >power supply, and before i reinstall it, i plan to bring it and the keys >to that locksmith so i can have some cheaper, 'working' copies of the >key made. I like having a key sitting in the lock ready to turn. If others >need a key, let me know and i'm sure I can get you one for a lot less >than that ebay guy. Nice offer! Frank From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Feb 13 07:51:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Frank Arnold wrote: > cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 12.02.2003: > >I purchased mine for the starting bid of $10, but they then charged me $10 > >more for shipping (actual shipping was $4.30), making for an expensive key. > > Thats a general problem on Ebay, seller tend to cover their listing-costs into > the "shipping" or "handling" fees they charge. Your only chance to make this > clear is a mail to the seller on this before you bid. Make clear that you will > only bid if the seller follows the rates of e.g. USPS or some other > shippingcompany. Then you have the choice to take or to leave it. Not to smack anybody personally, but I see this objection a lot, and it is sort of irritating. I don't sell much on ebay, but I do trade and sell a lot of parts. If I'm a low-volume shipper, and I'm selling something *for a profit*, $10 S&H is about what it would cost to mail a key. Even if I'm making a trip to the post office anyway, and using free USPS boxes, the time spent packaging the item, making labels, and getting to the counter to pay postage takes a considerable amount of time. My time, especially during business hours, is expensive. I charge for it. That's the "handling" part.... I simply factor in the listed S&H as part of the eBay price. If it's too high, I don't bid. If it's not specified, I don't bid till I've asked the seller. It's not rocket science. It's also really presumptuous for me to decide what constitutes reasonable compensation for someone else's time and trouble. Doc From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Feb 13 07:54:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: DEC xx2247 keys" (Feb 12, 19:15) References: <20030213031515.68307.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10302130759.ZM22112@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> > > My local keycutting shop cut a copy for just a little less than that. > > The key style is quite standard. The trick, of course, is getting the > > first one :-) > > Not really... the point of the XX2247 is that a full-service locksmith > should be able to cross-reference that to a set of key depths, Finding a good locksmith who can do that isn't all that easy over here. > Another word to the wise on DEC keys - if you have a newer PDP-11 > (11/24, for example) or a newer keyed VAX (like my 8200) with the > *plastic* lock body - there are no tumblers. A key blank will > operate your machine - DEC shipped an orangish-red plastic key > with those systems, but the older keys (or a blank) will turn the > lock. The plastic keys are actually a slightly different size. All the ones I've seen are beige plastic (but they may be slightly later, mostly from Alphas). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Feb 13 08:25:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Kaypro II Message-ID: Because of a peculiarity in the Kaypro format (Fred Cisin has gone over this before, but I don't have the details at hand), you must format the Kaypro disk on your target PC for it to work. This formatting can be done on a PC with programs such as Xenocopy, MediaMaster, Convert. The disk formated on the PC can then be used in the Kaypro. You can copy files from native Kaypro disks to this disk, then read it in the PC with the software. -----Original Message----- From: Mike van Bokhoven [mailto:mike@ambientdesign.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:03 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Kaypro II - Does anyone know if it's possible to write Kaypro disks with a PC and 5 1/4 inch drive? If not - any hints on where to dig up software? Mike. From allain at panix.com Thu Feb 13 08:40:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys References: <20030213031515.68307.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <10302130759.ZM22112@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <004801c2d36d$68af2540$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > The plastic keys are actually a slightly different size. All the > ones I've seen are beige plastic (but they may be slightly > later, mostly from Alphas). For reference I have two DEC plastic keys here: 1217119-01 grey marked "'digital' and 'Anti Static' 1217606-0-0 blue marked "'digital' and 'REMOTE' the keying part is just a single tooth on a 1cm cylinder. The first is for BA213,BA215 cabinets (at least), they work in pre-alpha uVIII's. The blue key is for other purposes I don't know of yet. John A. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Feb 13 08:47:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3E4BAFEF.525C0008@comcast.net> "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > > All, > > Now that I inherited a nice set of StorageWorks enclusures with > an HSZ40C controller, I might as well use it, no? I plan on > connecting it to the primary file server of my "fun" network > (also known as VAXlab, aka pdp11.nl) so I'll have more (and safer) > storage there. > > Only prob is.. the HSZ40C has a diff-scsi port, whereas the machines > have SE. > > Is this easily converted with a cable, or will I be doing resistor- > balancing and/or use a signal converter box? > > Thx, > Fred Fred --- So, you have a machine with a SE SCSI port on it, right? Well, I have a BA-350 Storageworks shelf available, with HD-50 SE SCSI connection. Your RZ28s should work in it just fine. It has 2 power supplies in it, but only one of the blowers on the back. I haven't had a chance to test it out yet, but it yours if you like. To All --- If Fred doesn't want this shelf, someone else can buy it. Make me an offer... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Feb 13 08:48:01 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys In-Reply-To: <004801c2d36d$68af2540$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <20030213031515.68307.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <10302130759.ZM22112@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <004801c2d36d$68af2540$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <18019.195.95.132.146.1045147542.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Interesting. I have red ones and grey ones. Never seen the blue key. Ed >> The plastic keys are actually a slightly different size. All the >> ones I've seen are beige plastic (but they may be slightly >> later, mostly from Alphas). > > For reference I have two DEC plastic keys here: > 1217119-01 grey marked "'digital' and 'Anti Static' > 1217606-0-0 blue marked "'digital' and 'REMOTE' > > the keying part is just a single tooth on a 1cm cylinder. > > The first is for BA213,BA215 cabinets (at least), > they work in pre-alpha uVIII's. > The blue key is for other purposes I don't know of yet. > > John A. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Feb 13 08:57:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:49 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1044946485.2128.29.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <3E48D510.6030203@Vishay.com> <1569.4.20.168.230.1044990762.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E4BB1A4.90909@Vishay.com> Eric, you're right: I checked the manual again, and found that the M9312 is designed to work in either a standard Unibus or MUD slot. You only need to remove jumper W-6 for MUD operation (to keep the buffered "VECTOR L" signal away from the +5V battery backup power line). I was blinded because I had never seen this module used at the far end. In fact, if there is a bus repeater, the M9312 must be installed at the CPU side of the repeater (says the manual). In my 11/34A, leaving the M9312 at the CPU end makes connections to the front panel simpler: the other end of the bus is in an expansion box, separate from the box containing the CPU and the front panel. BTW, somebody asked for pictures a while ago. Please visit http://andreas.freiherr.bei.t-online.de/pdp-11/index.htm and have fun! Regards, Andreas Eric Smith wrote: > An M9312 will work just fine in a normal Unibus slot at the far end. ... > > The near-end Unibus terminator slot is NOT an MUD slot. On an 11/44 > it does have a few signals different than a normal Unibus slot, but > they are different than a MUD slot also. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Feb 13 09:00:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys In-Reply-To: "John Allain" "Re: DEC xx2247 keys" (Feb 13, 9:37) References: <20030213031515.68307.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <10302130759.ZM22112@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <004801c2d36d$68af2540$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <10302131458.ZM22320@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 13, 9:37, John Allain wrote: > > The plastic keys are actually a slightly different size. All the > > ones I've seen are beige plastic (but they may be slightly > > later, mostly from Alphas). > > For reference I have two DEC plastic keys here: > 1217119-01 grey marked "'digital' and 'Anti Static' > 1217606-0-0 blue marked "'digital' and 'REMOTE' > > the keying part is just a single tooth on a 1cm cylinder. > > The first is for BA213,BA215 cabinets (at least), > they work in pre-alpha uVIII's. > The blue key is for other purposes I don't know of yet. The first is what fits my 11/24. Mine say "Anti Static" too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Feb 13 09:16:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: "Welt am Draht" References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1044946485.2128.29.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <008001c2d1dc$b7d20580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <002401c2d223$7d4ecdc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3E4BB632.8010604@Vishay.com> John, the movie was on German TV years ago (rerun later, but also years ago already) in two parts. I have it on VHS tape, and I am lucky enough to have a printed listing so I don't need the broken RD53 in the PDP-11 to find the tape. However, I am not sure if this will really help you: it is in German, and it is in PAL video format, so you as well as your VCR will need special features to be able to understand it. ;-) Technical details are in http://uk.imdb.com/Title?0070904 - just in case you are only looking for these... A similar idea is behind "Matrix" and "The 13th Floor", but Fassbinder's version is indeed a classic and impressive one. Regards, Andreas John Allain wrote: > Anybody on the list have a copy of > Fassbinder's "Welt am Draht" / "World on a Wire" > that I can borrow for viewing? Alternately, have > any of the Europeans on the list heard of plans to > release this on DVD? Important and on topic since > this may be the first occurrence of VR in film. > > John A. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 13 09:45:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <3E4BB1A4.90909@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20030213154230.17603.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > BTW, somebody asked for pictures a while ago. Please visit > http://andreas.freiherr.bei.t-online.de/pdp-11/index.htm and have fun! A correction for your page (nice pic, BTW)... the 11/10 and 11/05 were the *second* PDP-11 CPU - the first was the 11/20 (and 11/15?). I have both an 11/05 (working) and 11/20 (still in pieces). The 11/05 is much more compact and integrated compared to the 11/20 (which has several backplanes for the CPU and memory). Other than that, nice page. -ethan From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Thu Feb 13 09:50:00 2003 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1044946485.2128.29.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <3E48D510.6030203@Vishay.com> <1569.4.20.168.230.1044990762.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E4BB1A4.90909@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E4BBD93.4060703@pacbell.net> Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > BTW, somebody asked for pictures a while ago. Please visit > http://andreas.freiherr.bei.t-online.de/pdp-11/index.htm and have fun! > Nice pictures, but your PDP-11 history isn't quite correct. The PDP-11 series actually started with ... the PDP-11 ... which was very quickly renamed the PDP-11/20. The 11/10 came along just a little bit later. From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Feb 13 10:29:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Sun tapes In-Reply-To: <378191178.20030204210837@subatomix.com> Message-ID: > 'course, that still depends on how much it weights. But I'm interested. I've > got a few Sun3s and 4s around here and zero software for them. > > > I thik I also have quite a few unused 1/4" tape carts, also cheap. Real > > cheap. > > These aren't real important, but I'd still be interested if they wouldn't > increase the cost of shipping by very much. Where are you located? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From fm.arnold at gmx.net Thu Feb 13 10:42:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: <20030213045930.58780.48804.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030213045930.58780.48804.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 12.02.2003: > >--------------------- >Message: 6 >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:53:21 -0800 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Mike Ford >Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >I got this message from a guy today, and I am just wondering if he is >correct, will the IBM drives work in the Kaypro? > >5.25" full-height, 360 KB floppy drives >(the big black ones)? Do they work? >I'd be able to use them to restore a pair of old Kaypro computers that use >these drives. The "B" drive on each Kaypro appears to >be shot. >--------------------- > Hi, I have one or two Teac FD50A floppy drives around that I dont need. Contact me per PM if you are interested. Frank From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Feb 13 11:01:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. References: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> <3243.4.20.168.110.1043717141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3BCDCC.60803@tiac.net> <32994.63.224.195.20.1044134081.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E3D393D.5040905@tiac.net> <15580.207.55.102.77.1044343259.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E456F52.1030306@tiac.net> <3E4598C7.4040002@tiac.net> <32872.64.169.63.74.1044752749.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E4BCFE5.3000203@tiac.net> My understanding is that for RTE, different drivers are needed for 'H' series drives on the 13037 controller. This is the migration path HP gave MAC disk users, and the article I read in the users group magazine complained bitterly about the complex issues of replacing the system disk drivers as well as the much lower performance. Their reccomendation was to NOT upgrade existing MAC drives to the 'ICD' (H-series) configuration for reasons of performance and the complexity of the upgrade. That 7920 drive you got from my garage had been (incorrectly) modified for the MAC to ICD upgrade, but the heads had not been changed. The heads must be changed to make it a real H seires drive becuse the H series drives have a slower spindle speed, etc. I think there are 3 different sets of drivers, native MAC (13037), H series (13037 with H series drives) and then the CS/80 drives, which use the 12821A HPIB interface board. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I'll try to dig up the issue of the users group magazine with the details. Eric Smith wrote: >Bob Shannon wrote: > >>If you need a different device driver (under RTE) to use a 7920H than >>you do to use a 7920M, isn't it safe >>to assume that there IS a low-level difference here (assuming both >>drives are connected to a 13037 controller)? >> >>How is this not related to your question? >> > >There are three configurations to consider: > > A) CPU --- 13037 --- 7920M > > B) CPU --- 13037 --- 7920H > > C) CPU --- native HPIB interface --- 7920H > (I don't remember the P/N of the native interface) > >I knew that the configuration C needed a different driver than either >A or B. I was NOT aware that A and B required different drivers; it >was my impression that there was basically a "13037 driver". However, >I'm definitely not an RTE expert. > >Eric From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Feb 13 11:55:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Gridcase 1530 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E4B85D7.15317.B147871@localhost> This could be a problem with your Connor HD, the ones in the Grid 15xx are notoriously unreliable. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RuGRiD-Laptop/ In the files section are set-up and boot disk files which would allow you to boot from floppy and at least see if the HD is recognized. If not you need to replace your HD with one of the 3 the 1530 recognizes. There is also a file to alter the BIOS to allow a larger Connor HD than the biggest 80meg one to be installed. I regularly give my 2 Grid 1520s a sharp rap or twist to unstick the HD. :^) I haven't anything of value on it that I can't replace with a backup and haven't yet found a cheap Connor with the Grid specs. YMMV Lawrence On 11 Feb 2003, , Ricky wrote: > Dear Sir, > > Greetings form Geolab! We are formed in 1991 as an > independent multi-discplinary Geotechnical, Environmental > and Construction Materials Service firm providing > engineering and scientific consulting, subsurface > exploration and testing services to both public and private > sector clients. > > At this moment, we are using Gridcase 1530 (386) for the > purpose of doing our Pile Drive Analysis Test (PDA Test). > Due to this computer is an old unit, we frequently facing > problem that bother us once we turn on the computer. The > monitor always promp the error as stated below: > > "Invalid configuration Information : Code 02 > > Strike F1 key to continue" > > However, once we strike the F1 key, another error will occur > named, Disk Boot Errores. > > We really appreciate if you can help us out in this matter > as soon as possible, this computer is really valuable for > our department. We hope to hear from you soon. > > Thank you for your kind attention. > > Regards, > > Ricky > > Engineer > > ligkig@hotmail.com lgwalker@ mts.net From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Feb 13 12:12:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Differential SCSI vs. SE ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE15@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, Doc writes: > I have a couple of DEC Wide-FWD conversion modules. P/N DWZZA-VA > Look 'em up, and if that fits your bill, I'll send you one for > shipping costs. I looked at the DEC StorageWorks documentation, and it seems that I will need the following: :: DWZZB is a Fast Wide Differential to Fast Wide Single-Ended SCSI :: bus extender and signal converter. It is 8 or 16 bit Fast Wide :: Differential SCSI on one side and an 8 or 16 bit single-ended :: SCSI on the other side. DWZZB is SCSI-3 (ANSI X3T9.2-10R3) :: compliant, can handle data rates up to 20 (16-bit) MB per second, :: and operates transparently to SCSI bus. The product fully supports :: all the latest SCSI-3 bus phases as well as all earlier standard :: SCSI compatible implementations, back to SASI. :: :: DWZZB is bi-directional in operation and can be cascaded. A :: maximum of two can be attached to a bus in a series. Termination :: on the single-ended side is user selectable. The 16-bit fast wide :: differential side features user removable resistors. DWZZB handles :: the more powerful 16-bit SCSI buses as well as 8-bit buses and :: handles data rates up to 20 MB per second on Fast SCSI. It is :: fully compatible with 2- to 5 MB per second data rates of earlier :: SCSI interconnects. It extends SCSI buses from 3 or 6 meters to 25 :: meters using synchronous transfers. :: :: DWZZB can be used to connect the widening range of available :: differential SCSI storage devices and subsystems to single-ended :: hosts. No changes are required to existing devices or software; :: the DWZZB does not occupy a SCSI bus node According to the document, I'd need the :: DWZZB-AA Standalone Product-includes built-in universal power :: supply for general purpose SCSI bus length and signal :: conversion needs, can be used with any SCSI-2 :: compatible device. or the :: DWZZB-MA Module for OEM use-includes basic module that operates :: at 20 MB per second and is fully ANSI compliant for :: embedded applications (power suppler and packaging to :: be ordered separately by OEM or system integrator). Does anyone have some of these available? Thanks bunches, Fred From jwillis at arielusa.com Thu Feb 13 12:16:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB77C@deathstar.arielnet.com> I have a copy of HPUX 11.0, but I can't seem to boot off the CD. It says "Bad LIF magic" when I do a boot 52.2.0.0 etc etc. How does one get these things loaded up with an OS? -----Original Message----- From: Keven Miller Sent: Wed 2/12/2003 10:07 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems > It's probably too old for full parisc-linux support. > (www.parisc-linux.org) > I was somewhat surprised, but happy that my G40 installed HPUX 11i. It seems to run ok, but slow with the default 128M memory. Just added 256M, and will be running more tests soon. Keven Miller [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Feb 13 12:44:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys References: <20030213031515.68307.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007901c2d38f$c1ab5390$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:15 PM Subject: Re: DEC xx2247 keys > Another word to the wise on DEC keys - if you have a newer PDP-11 > (11/24, for example) or a newer keyed VAX (like my 8200) with the > *plastic* lock body - there are no tumblers. A key blank will > operate your machine - DEC shipped an orangish-red plastic key > with those systems, but the older keys (or a blank) will turn the > lock. Watch out with this one though. While any key that fits in the lock will turn it, when I used a metal one from an old security system to turn my VAX 6320 on, the outside part of the index keyway scraped away some plastic on the lock. It would have been fine if I hadn't inserted the key all the way in, but I didn't know any better at the time and I was in a hurry to show it off to a buddy. > -ethan Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Feb 13 12:44:39 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys References: <20030213031515.68307.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <10302130759.ZM22112@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <004801c2d36d$68af2540$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <007a01c2d38f$c2679eb0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:37 AM Subject: Re: DEC xx2247 keys > > The plastic keys are actually a slightly different size. All the > > ones I've seen are beige plastic (but they may be slightly > > later, mostly from Alphas). > > For reference I have two DEC plastic keys here: > 1217119-01 grey marked "'digital' and 'Anti Static' > 1217606-0-0 blue marked "'digital' and 'REMOTE' > > the keying part is just a single tooth on a 1cm cylinder. > > The first is for BA213,BA215 cabinets (at least), > they work in pre-alpha uVIII's. > The blue key is for other purposes I don't know of yet. Being labled `REMOTE' it might be the official key for manipulating a |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| Remote Services Console. The grey one fits fine in it though, as well as VAX 6000 machines, or at least a VAX 63x0. > > John A. Bob From donm at cts.com Thu Feb 13 15:19:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Kaypro II In-Reply-To: <002501c2d28e$c8538160$3d00a8c0@falco> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Mike van Bokhoven wrote: > Hi all, > > Just thought I'd recount some experiences with a Kaypro II and associated > manuals, kindly given to me by a friend. > > First, a couple of requests. > - Does anyone have any keyboard parts for Kaypro II keyboards, or a complete > spare keyboard? I'm not sure if the keyboard actually works, but its obvious > faults are that it's missing the 3 key, and the keyswitch for that key is > damaged. Also, the 4-pin cable connector on the keyboard is broken, though > it will still take the plug. This is a common 4-pin telecom-type socket as > found on a lot of telephones. The keyboard was made by Maxi-Switch Co, model > Maxikey, keyboard number 2160150, PC board number 630184. I can provide either spare parts or a complete keyboard for your Kaypro II. Contact me off list with your desires and we can work out something for you. "Complete" does not include the sheet metal housing, however. > - Does anyone know if it's possible to write Kaypro disks with a PC and 5 > 1/4 inch drive? If not - any hints on where to dig up software? Yes, I do it regularly. The 5.25" drive should be a 360k unit though. You will need software such as 22Disk, UniForm, or others as elsewhere discribed in order to format/read/write material to the disks on the PC. > Now, on to my, um, interesting experience with this machine. The friend who > gave me the machine told me that it had been running fairly recently (within > the last couple of years, anyway), so I figured chances are it'd start up > OK. On disassembling it, I found it absolutely spotless inside, so I put it > back together and ran it up. Everything went superbly for about fifteen > seconds; long enough for me to get my fingers off the power switch around > the back. But just then, there was an ominous hissing sound, followed by one > of the loudest BANGs I've heard from a piece of electronic equipment. Since > I was completely unprepared for it, it took me a couple of seconds to get my > hand around the back again and turn the thing off. Most interesting was > during those two seconds after the explosion, the machine continued running > fine, not so much as a waver on the monitor. Pulling it apart again, guess > what - dead capacitor. But, not one of the electrolytics that you'd expect, > it was the AC filter capacitor that had spread itself all over the inside of > the case. Having seen that, and performed a quick tidy-up, I verified that > the machine still ran fine. Now I just need some software for it, to find > out whether the whole thing is in working order! If it still displays the initial powerup message on the screen, there is every chance that it is. Next time you have the cover off - perhaps to replace the capacitor - look for a couple of EPROMs that carry part numbers on paper labels. The numbers are of the form 81-xxx and the one of interest should be one of 81-149/232/292. That determines the revision of CP/M-2.2 that your machine requires. Also, if you remove the power supply to replace the capacitor, take the time to resolder all of the pins on the header along the right hand edge of the card. These are known to develop cracks in the solder joint and cause some mischief when they do. - don > Mike. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 13 15:56:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Kaypro II format oddities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The original question was whether it is possible to write Kaypro diskettes in a PC. If you have the opportunity to also do the formatting in the PC, then it is pretty easy with appropriate software. Single sided Kaypro diskettes are usually not a problem. But, if you need to work with double sided diskettes that were formatted by the Kaypro, for either reading OR writing, then there are some minor complications. The Kaypro uses a Western Digital type of FDC chip, the PC uses an NEC 765 type. The WD chip can ignore certain fields in the sector headers, specifically including the "Side number" field. When the Kaypro formats a DS diskette, it puts an INCORRECT value in the side number field of the sectors on the second side. That doesn't pose a problem for the Kaypro, since it can just ignore that field when reading or writing its own diskettes. But the NEC 765 (in a PC) can not ignore that field. It is possible with most PC disk controllers to control the FDC directly and have it look for that wrong value. But only if communicating directly with the chip, NOT when doing disk I/O through the BIOS. There was a period of time when a number of machines came out that did not respond appropriately to attempts to work directly with the FDC, but could still do fairly versatile disk I/O through the BIOS. To avoid a disastrous level of needed tech support, XenoCopy operates at a BIOS level, and even Uniform (from Micro Solutions) DISCONTINUED support of Kaypro double sided formats. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > Because of a peculiarity in the Kaypro format (Fred Cisin has gone over this > before, but I don't have the details at hand), you must format the Kaypro > disk on your target PC for it to work. This formatting can be done on a PC > with programs such as Xenocopy, MediaMaster, Convert. The disk formated on > the PC can then be used in the Kaypro. You can copy files from native Kaypro > disks to this disk, then read it in the PC with the software. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike van Bokhoven [mailto:mike@ambientdesign.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:03 AM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Kaypro II > > - Does anyone know if it's possible to write Kaypro disks with a PC and 5 > 1/4 inch drive? If not - any hints on where to dig up software? > > Mike. From donm at cts.com Thu Feb 13 16:47:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Frank Arnold wrote: > cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 12.02.2003: > > > >--------------------- > >Message: 6 > >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:53:21 -0800 > >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >From: Mike Ford > >Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro > >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > >I got this message from a guy today, and I am just wondering if he is > >correct, will the IBM drives work in the Kaypro? > > > >5.25" full-height, 360 KB floppy drives > >(the big black ones)? Do they work? > >I'd be able to use them to restore a pair of old Kaypro computers that use > >these drives. The "B" drive on each Kaypro appears to > >be shot. > >--------------------- > > > Hi, > > I have one or two Teac FD50A floppy drives around that I dont need. > Contact me per PM if you are interested. > > Frank The FD55A drives are single sided. - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 13 16:50:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 1 Level II In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Feb 12, 3 05:32:54 pm Message-ID: > The only downside is you get garbage on screen at powerup, but given the age Good! If you have the disk controller in the system (read : If you have the Expansion Interface connected), then the machine tries to boot the disk _before clearing the screen_. If you don't have a disk in the drive, then you get a screen of garbage. Try turning the machine on [1] (or pressing reset -- the button next to the expansion edge connector on the back) while holding down the BREAK key. That will force it to ignore the disk controller and go into BASIC (press ENTER at the MEMORY SIZE? prompt). Or, of course, put a bootable disk in the drive and press reset [1] There's a right order to turn things on : Monitor, Expansion Interface, drives, printer, then put in the bootable disk and turn on the keyboard/CPU. Do _not_ have a disk in the drive when powering up (or down) the drive or expansion interface. It will (not may!) become corrupted. > of the machine I'd take a stab at bad RAM since both my PET 2001 and UK101s > had that problem and both were fixed by new video RAM. The M1 doesn't use 2114s :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 13 16:50:31 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 In-Reply-To: <3E4ADF8A.5080706@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Feb 12, 3 04:58:02 pm Message-ID: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > Oh, the more complicated machine has the same CPU (so can be justified as > > 1, 4 or 16 bits) but all memory, ROM and RAM, is 16 bits wide, both > > physically and logically. > > > > Anyone care to guess what the 2 machines are? > > > I have not the foggest idea, but fancy calculator > comes to mind because of the BCD math bit. Right, and there is of course only one company that made fancy calculators :-) The 'simpler' machine is the HP9810. The successor to the HP9100, a 3-level stack RPB machine. The 'complicated' machine also claims to be a calculator on the nameplate. An HP9830. It runs BASIC, has a full QWERTY keyboard, 12K RAM, etc. I'd call it a computer :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 13 16:51:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 In-Reply-To: <33280.64.169.63.74.1045094752.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 12, 3 04:05:52 pm Message-ID: > > Anyone care to guess what the 2 machines are? > > HP 9810 and 9820 perhaps? I haven't studied them in depth, So close... The simpler one is the 9810, but alas I don't have a 9820. The more comlicated one is the 9830 > though at some point I may need to do so in order to get > my 9820 working. I've seriously 'investigated' (you, having met me at the HPCC conference, will know what that means :-)) the 9810 and 9830. Obviously I've not done the 9820 as I don't have one, but I know that many of the PCBs are common to the 9810 and 9820 (the entire CPU board set, the main backplane, I think the PSU, and maybe some parts of the memory system). If I can be of any help, feel feee to ask. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 13 16:51:31 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: IBM drives in a Kaypro In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Feb 12, 3 05:25:44 pm Message-ID: > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > According to the O&A TechRef, there are 2 distinct 40 cylinder drives : > > The 'Slimline' drive used in the PortablePC and PCjr. This des not have > > the asterisk > > Originally a Qume "Qumetrak 142"? Certainly a Qume something-or-other. [...] > matter, I failed to include step rate. The Qume drive was arguably the > first "half height" 5.25" drive, and it was SO slow that changes needed to > be made in the OS to keep from timing out waiting for it to seek. > Some say that it was the worst drive ever sold; I don't agree - I had some > BASF 2/3 height drives that were worse. Having seen those darn things in RML 380Z machines, I fully agree with you. Horrible drives.. > > > > The double density (360K) drive for the PC/AT. This does have the asterisk. > > They are difference electrically (made by difference companies?). I think > > the use of pin 34 on the connector differs too. > > At about the time that the 1.2M was released, there was a change in the > use of pin 34. One use was "READY"? the other was "DISK CHANGED"? Yep. Originally READY, became Disk Change on the 1.2M and therefore the 360K unit that went with it... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 13 16:52:03 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: More 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <1045112274.2115.21.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> from "Guy Sotomayor" at Feb 12, 3 08:57:54 pm Message-ID: > SPC = Small Peripheral Controller. Typically these are quad or hex > hight cards. Quad cards go into C-F. So they can occupy the same > physical slot as say an M9202 (or a terminator). Hex cards must go into > a slot all by themselves (duh). A very minor correction : I've got some 3rd party hex-height SPC cards (The interfacae for the I2S Model 70 image display, for example) that have a rectangular cutout where the A-B connectors would be. That will fit over an M920 jumper or M930 terminator (but not, of course, the longer M9302 terminator), so this card can go in the 'end' slot of a backplane. -tony From dave at naffnet.org.uk Thu Feb 13 16:57:00 2003 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB77C@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <3E4C224E.8030905@naffnet.org.uk> You might have tried all this already, but, just in case... In general, once interrupts the boot and enters the 'boot admin' mode by typing 'admin' Then type 'search' which will list the potential boot devices. Depending on the system, it might show a 'path' (P0, P1 etc) or a device spec such as scsi.6.0 - enter the appropriate one for the cdrom drive as the parameter to the boot command. Cheers, Dave. John Willis wrote: >I have a copy of HPUX 11.0, but I can't seem to boot off the CD. It says >"Bad LIF magic" when I do a boot 52.2.0.0 etc etc. How does one get >these things loaded up with an OS? From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Feb 13 18:47:00 2003 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 )) In-Reply-To: <041001c2d2d5$bf1bc390$0200a8c0@cosmo> from Stuart Johnson at "Feb 12, 2003 02:31:39 pm" Message-ID: <200302140044.QAA08270@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Smith" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 1:57 PM > Subject: Re: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 ) > > > > > PS Is the 6809 a 8 or a 16 bit CPU? > > > > Yes. > > :-) Good Answer > > This has been argued many times. Personally, I would go with the width of > the accumulator(s), 8 bits for 6809, even though there are special (or > perhaps BECAUSE they are special) instructions that use the combination of > the two accumulators as one 16 bit ("D") register. I tend to agree, but I would specialize that even further. As time goes on, I become more convinced that ALU width should be the determinant of bittedness. The 6809 requires multiple ALU passes for a 16 bit operation because the ALU is 8 bits wide. The 68000 is a 16 bit processor for the same reason. I seem to recall that that makes the 8080 a 4 bit CPU, though. Eric From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Feb 13 19:21:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: digital finds Message-ID: <019401c2d3c7$00967c10$3108dd40@oemcomputer> Picked up six VT420 models today 1-C2; 1-A4; 3-A2's. None tested yet? On Tuesday I got four VT510's none are tested yet. Also got a TRS-80 Color Computer MiniDisk and Controller. From rmurphy at itm-inst.com Thu Feb 13 19:21:49 2003 From: rmurphy at itm-inst.com (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys In-Reply-To: <007901c2d38f$c1ab5390$7d00a8c0@george> References: <20030213031515.68307.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030213201009.016e36e0@mail.itm-inst.com> I have both an XX2247 and an XX3651 key.. I can't remember what the XX3651 is for. If anyone in the Washington DC metro area needs to borrow a 2247 for copying purposes, let me know. -Rick From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 13 19:40:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: digital finds In-Reply-To: <019401c2d3c7$00967c10$3108dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20030214013746.17385.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > Picked up six VT420 models today 1-C2; 1-A4; 3-A2's. None tested yet? > > On Tuesday I got four VT510's none are tested yet. Keeping all of those? I don't have any DEC terminals newer than a VT220. -ethan From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Feb 13 20:03:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: digital finds References: <20030214013746.17385.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01bd01c2d3cc$edc84770$3108dd40@oemcomputer> No I will keep one of each model and trade or sale the rest after I test them to see if they all work. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 7:37 PM Subject: Re: digital finds > --- Keys wrote: > > Picked up six VT420 models today 1-C2; 1-A4; 3-A2's. None tested yet? > > > > On Tuesday I got four VT510's none are tested yet. > > Keeping all of those? I don't have any DEC terminals newer than > a VT220. > > -ethan From fauradon at frontiernet.net Thu Feb 13 21:26:00 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Gridcase 1530 References: <3E4B85D7.15317.B147871@localhost> Message-ID: <000f01c2d3e8$ffdf68a0$0264640a@auradon.com> Problem here.... I don't want to sign up with yahoo. So I can't read the archives or get to the files sections. Otherwise I would be interested in getting the setup and boot disk files for my 1520. ------- Brief Google search http://www.ari-service.com/support/file/dir.asp?VirtPath=/ftp/grid/ Has a set of utilities ready to download Have fun Francois Minnesota ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: "Ricky" ; Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:47 AM Subject: Re: Gridcase 1530 > This could be a problem with your Connor HD, the ones > in the Grid 15xx are notoriously unreliable. Go to > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RuGRiD-Laptop/ > > In the files section are set-up and boot disk files which > would allow you to boot from floppy and at least see if > the HD is recognized. If not you need to replace your HD > with one of the 3 the 1530 recognizes. There is also a file > to alter the BIOS to allow a larger Connor HD than the > biggest 80meg one to be installed. > I regularly give my 2 Grid 1520s a sharp rap or twist to > unstick the HD. :^) I haven't anything of value on it that I > can't replace with a backup and haven't yet found a cheap > Connor with the Grid specs. YMMV > > Lawrence > > > > On 11 Feb 2003, , Ricky wrote: > > > Dear Sir, > > > > Greetings form Geolab! We are formed in 1991 as an > > independent multi-discplinary Geotechnical, Environmental > > and Construction Materials Service firm providing > > engineering and scientific consulting, subsurface > > exploration and testing services to both public and private > > sector clients. > > > > At this moment, we are using Gridcase 1530 (386) for the > > purpose of doing our Pile Drive Analysis Test (PDA Test). > > Due to this computer is an old unit, we frequently facing > > problem that bother us once we turn on the computer. The > > monitor always promp the error as stated below: > > > > "Invalid configuration Information : Code 02 > > > > Strike F1 key to continue" > > > > However, once we strike the F1 key, another error will occur > > named, Disk Boot Errores. > > > > We really appreciate if you can help us out in this matter > > as soon as possible, this computer is really valuable for > > our department. We hope to hear from you soon. > > > > Thank you for your kind attention. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ricky > > > > Engineer > > > > ligkig@hotmail.com > > > lgwalker@ mts.net From allain at panix.com Thu Feb 13 23:20:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: "Welt am Draht" References: <011c01c2d119$428e3a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1044946485.2128.29.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <008001c2d1dc$b7d20580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <002401c2d223$7d4ecdc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3E4BB632.8010604@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <007001c2d3e8$65d7a560$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > A similar idea is behind "Matrix" and "The 13th Floor", but > Fassbinder's version is indeed a classic and impressive one. 13th Floor is drawn from the same story -- that's how I heard of it. It was pretty thrilling to learn that the story was filmed over _25_ years earlier! That's 1973 folks. Since it's impossible to find, PAL is no drawback. Thanks for responding. John A. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Feb 14 00:37:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: DEC xx2247 keys In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030213222935.03219ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > Not to smack anybody personally, but I see this objection a lot, and >it is sort of irritating. > > I don't sell much on ebay, but I do trade and sell a lot of parts. > If I'm a low-volume shipper, and I'm selling something *for a profit*, >$10 S&H is about what it would cost to mail a key. Even if I'm making a > I simply factor in the listed S&H as part of the eBay price. If it's Thats the thing, as long as they disclose whatever sillyass rate they want to charge, then thats what it is and don't bid if you don't like it. BUT $10 S&H for a key, that could easily be dropped in a padded envelope and mailed for $2, if it WAS NOT disclosed would get a neutral or negative feedback from me. From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Feb 14 00:43:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Gridcase 1530 In-Reply-To: <3E4B85D7.15317.B147871@localhost> References: Message-ID: <3E4C39C8.17333.206EE79@localhost> Oops, the Grid 15xx laptops recognize 6 Conner HDs. The CP3022CP3024CP3044CP3042CP344CP3104 . But as I said there is a file on how to modify the Bios for some others on the Yahoo site. Also to boot from floppy press "f" immediately after the beep. The setup file should work even if the internal battery or (in most 15xx models) Dallas RTC is dead, IIRC. To erase a password on the Dallas model is another problem however. Lawrence On 13 Feb 2003, , Lawrence Walker wrote: > This could be a problem with your Connor HD, the ones in > the Grid 15xx are notoriously unreliable. Go to > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RuGRiD-Laptop/ > > In the files section are set-up and boot disk files which > would allow you to boot from floppy and at least see if the > HD is recognized. If not you need to replace your HD with > one of the 3 the 1530 recognizes. There is also a file to > alter the BIOS to allow a larger Connor HD than the biggest > 80meg one to be installed. > I regularly give my 2 Grid 1520s a sharp rap or twist to > unstick the HD. :^) I haven't anything of value on it that I > can't replace with a backup and haven't yet found a cheap > Connor with the Grid specs. YMMV > > Lawrence > > > > On 11 Feb 2003, , Ricky wrote: > > > Dear Sir, > > > > Greetings form Geolab! We are formed in 1991 as an > > independent multi-discplinary Geotechnical, Environmental > > and Construction Materials Service firm providing > > engineering and scientific consulting, subsurface > > exploration and testing services to both public and > > private sector clients. > > > > At this moment, we are using Gridcase 1530 (386) for the > > purpose of doing our Pile Drive Analysis Test (PDA Test). > > Due to this computer is an old unit, we frequently facing > > problem that bother us once we turn on the computer. The > > monitor always promp the error as stated below: > > > > "Invalid configuration Information : Code 02 > > > > Strike F1 key to continue" > > > > However, once we strike the F1 key, another error will > > occur named, Disk Boot Errores. > > > > We really appreciate if you can help us out in this matter > > as soon as possible, this computer is really valuable for > > our department. We hope to hear from you soon. > > > > Thank you for your kind attention. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ricky > > > > Engineer > > > > ligkig@hotmail.com > > > lgwalker@ mts.net lgwalker@ mts.net From robinm at rpi.edu Fri Feb 14 01:54:01 2003 From: robinm at rpi.edu (Michael Robinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: New find: pdp-11/05 Message-ID: Hello, Today a friend of mine acquired a pdp-11/05 from our school's engineering department. Unfortunately, it isn't in too good shape. Fortunately for him, I've spent the last three years restoring (sucessfully!) a pdp-11/45. So I offered to help. However, this machine is somewhat of a different animal, so questions: Could someone scan the engineering drawings for an H217C stack? This is partly for my own edification (I have one such board in my machine), and partly because of the fact that this "new" pdp-11/05 has no core with it. Its engineering drawings seem to indicate that it wants 4 or 8kW of core (one or more of H213-H216), *not* the 16kW of a H217. (Granted, by placing two H214s into a chassis we get 16kW, but I digress.) That would have been enough to shut me up, but I looked a little further. It appears that the H213 (4kW) stack is a proper subset of the H214 (8kW) stack. The schematics appear to indicate that the H214 has all of the lines, bus connections, etc. as the H213, plus a few more. Indeed, it appears that if I were to place an H214 in the machine, but tell it that it was an H213, it would be fine (and see 4kW of course). Am I right? If so, the next question is, can I do this with an H217? (Drop in an H217C, and tell the machine that it's really an H214/H215.) This might sound like a gratuitous waste of core, which it is, but I happen to have another core board (not in my machine) that could be used... So anyway, the engineering drawings would answer this question really fast. If not, I guess we'll be looking for an H213-H216... :) Thanks, Michael Robinson RPI Electronics Club Vaxherd/PDP-11 Fixer robinm@rpi.edu From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Feb 14 02:04:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Gridcase 1530 In-Reply-To: <000f01c2d3e8$ffdf68a0$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <3E4C4CC5.20633.2511D8B@localhost> Sorry about that. Forgot the sign-up B-S. If you want anything I could download and send it to you. Msgs arrive like ordinary mail so I rarely sign in unless it's to download a file. I guess I have their cookie and it works for me like any ordinary site except for an occasional request for password. I could copy the file listings and pass them on to you. One of these years I'm going to get off my keister and build a site with some of my stuff on it. Lawrence Lawrence On 13 Feb 2003, , Sue & Francois wrote: > Problem here.... > I don't want to sign up with yahoo. So I can't read the > archives or get to the files sections. Otherwise I would be > interested in getting the setup and boot disk files for my > 1520. ------- Brief Google search > http://www.ari-service.com/support/file/dir.asp?VirtPath=/ft > p/grid/ Has a set of utilities ready to download Have fun > Francois Minnesota > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Walker" > To: "Ricky" ; > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:47 AM Subject: Re: > Gridcase 1530 > > > > This could be a problem with your Connor HD, the ones in > > the Grid 15xx are notoriously unreliable. Go to > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RuGRiD-Laptop/ > > > > In the files section are set-up and boot disk files which > > would allow you to boot from floppy and at least see if > > the HD is recognized. If not you need to replace your HD > > with one of the 3 the 1530 recognizes. There is also a > > file to alter the BIOS to allow a larger Connor HD than > > the biggest 80meg one to be installed. > > I regularly give my 2 Grid 1520s a sharp rap or twist to > > unstick the HD. :^) I haven't anything of value on it that > > I can't replace with a backup and haven't yet found a > > cheap Connor with the Grid specs. YMMV > > > > Lawrence > > > > > > > > On 11 Feb 2003, , Ricky wrote: > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > Greetings form Geolab! We are formed in 1991 as an > > > independent multi-discplinary Geotechnical, > > > Environmental and Construction Materials Service firm > > > providing engineering and scientific consulting, > > > subsurface exploration and testing services to both > > > public and private sector clients. > > > > > > At this moment, we are using Gridcase 1530 (386) for the > > > purpose of doing our Pile Drive Analysis Test (PDA > > > Test). Due to this computer is an old unit, we > > > frequently facing problem that bother us once we turn on > > > the computer. The monitor always promp the error as > > > stated below: > > > > > > "Invalid configuration Information : Code 02 > > > > > > Strike F1 key to continue" > > > > > > However, once we strike the F1 key, another error will > > > occur named, Disk Boot Errores. > > > > > > We really appreciate if you can help us out in this > > > matter as soon as possible, this computer is really > > > valuable for our department. We hope to hear from you > > > soon. > > > > > > Thank you for your kind attention. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ricky > > > > > > Engineer > > > > > > ligkig@hotmail.com > > > > > > lgwalker@ mts.net lgwalker@ mts.net From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 14 02:08:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Nice CPUs (was: Virtual vs Physical memory (was Re: Designing around a 6502 )) In-Reply-To: References: <451863699.20030212221007@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E4CB164.20186.13DFF7E5@localhost> From: Brian Chase > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > On Wednesday, February 12, 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > >>> I don't know anything which can't be done in a megabyte of mem. > > >> How about a database record sort on a field with a data length greater > > >> than 1MB? > > HF> read the fields to compare in chunks of max say 64K (well in reality i'd > > HF> use the block/cluster size of the drive) and compare it. > > Read from where? What drive? You assume too much. > I'd tend to guess that the 1MB fields probably come from the storage > device holding the database... [...] In either of those > cases, you don't even need to write a sorting program since the tables > are already sorted. Thank you Brian, I couln'd have said it in a niceer manner. ;) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From ggs at shiresoft.com Fri Feb 14 02:48:00 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: New find: pdp-11/05 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1045212196.2076.19.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Thu, 2003-02-13 at 23:52, Michael Robinson wrote: > Hello, > Today a friend of mine acquired a pdp-11/05 from our school's > engineering department. Unfortunately, it isn't in too good shape. > Fortunately for him, I've spent the last three years restoring > (sucessfully!) a pdp-11/45. So I offered to help. However, this machine > is somewhat of a different animal, so questions: > > Could someone scan the engineering drawings for an H217C stack? Go to http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec or http://www.maincoon.com/classiccmp one or both will have drawings for the 11/05. > This is partly for my own edification (I have one such board in my > machine), and partly because of the fact that this "new" pdp-11/05 has no > core with it. Its engineering drawings seem to indicate that it wants > 4 or 8kW of core (one or more of H213-H216), *not* the 16kW of a H217. > (Granted, by placing two H214s into a chassis we get 16kW, but I > digress.) It will depend upon which backplane you have. If it's an 11/05-S backplane then it's the same as what I have and you can go to http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/11-10/index.html to see how to use an H217C (which is what I have in mine). > > That would have been enough to shut me up, but I looked a little further. > It appears that the H213 (4kW) stack is a proper subset of the H214 (8kW) > stack. The schematics appear to indicate that the H214 has all of > the lines, bus connections, etc. as the H213, plus a few more. Indeed, it > appears that if I were to place an H214 in the machine, but tell it that > it was an H213, it would be fine (and see 4kW of course). Am I right? > > If so, the next question is, can I do this with an H217? (Drop in an > H217C, and tell the machine that it's really an H214/H215.) This might > sound like a gratuitous waste of core, which it is, but I happen to have > another core board (not in my machine) that could be used... So anyway, > the engineering drawings would answer this question really fast. > It's not so much the drawings but the wirelist for the backplane. You really need to know which backplane you have. > If not, I guess we'll be looking for an H213-H216... :) > > Thanks, > Michael Robinson > RPI Electronics Club Vaxherd/PDP-11 Fixer robinm@rpi.edu -- TTFN - Guy From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 14 03:17:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Want Documation M200 manual Message-ID: I appreciate having the scans of the Documation M200 punch card reader manual available online thanks to David Gesswein, but it just doesn't compare to having the original manual in your hands. If anyone has a copy of the original manual and would like to trade, please e-mail me directly. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Feb 14 03:38:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: Probably doesn';t fall under the 20 year rule... Cubix 1010 Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030214013702.02593ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Local scrapper/reseller ahd a Cubix 1010 "fault tolerant' computer system, it is 2 chassis each with 6 P-200 or 233 boards in them.... From jss at subatomix.com Fri Feb 14 06:25:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? Message-ID: <1591341949.20030214062327@subatomix.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3401934914&category=1247 They think it's a PDP-8 panel, but I highly doubt that given: (0) It's got 24 bits, or maybe 18 + 6 if you look closely. (1) The switches are the wrong color (2) No "|D|I|G|I|T|A|L| PDP-8" anywhere on it (3) Doesn't look like any PDP-8 I've ever seen So what is it? -- Jeffrey Sharp From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Feb 14 06:39:00 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:50 2005 Subject: New find: pdp-11/05 Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAEA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> As Guy said: > It's not so much the drawings but the wirelist for the backplane. > You really need to know which backplane you have. That is very true! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 14 07:21:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? In-Reply-To: <1591341949.20030214062327@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030214082049.485f75e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:23 AM 2/14/03 -0600, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3401934914&category=1247 > >They think it's a PDP-8 panel, but I highly doubt that given: > >(0) It's got 24 bits, or maybe 18 + 6 if you look closely. >(1) The switches are the wrong color >(2) No "|D|I|G|I|T|A|L| PDP-8" anywhere on it >(3) Doesn't look like any PDP-8 I've ever seen > >So what is it? Don't know but it's close to me oif you need someone to check it out. I'm not familar with DEC stuff so you'll have to tell me what to look for. Joe From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 14 08:12:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: New find: pdp-11/05 In-Reply-To: <1045212196.2076.19.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <20030214141024.69318.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Guy Sotomayor wrote: > ...If it's an 11/05-S backplane then it's the same as what I have and > you can go to http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/11-10/index.html to see > how to use an H217C (which is what I have in mine). Nice page. Makes me want to go fire up my 11/05. > > If not, I guess we'll be looking for an H213-H216... :) I just saw one go by on ePay... I got outbid. :-( Oh... wait... _you_ were one of the bidders. You got outbid, too. I wanted it for my 11/05, but I didn't need it so bad that I would get it at any price. -ethan From tim.myers at sunplan.com Fri Feb 14 09:08:00 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: More Transputer equipment for sale Message-ID: <005b01c2d43b$347d6fb0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Almost the last item in my Transputer collection is now up on Ebay - this is a boxed B012 clone (Transtech TMB12) with 4 20MHz T805 TRAMs on board. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2308085144 if anyone's interested. Still to come is an Inmos analogue TRAM. Tim. From rborsuk at colourfull.com Fri Feb 14 09:26:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: More Transputer equipment for sale In-Reply-To: <005b01c2d43b$347d6fb0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: <47ED6A5A-4030-11D7-BCCA-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Hurray, finally something that uses 30pin SIP's . I have a mess of these things. I use to work for a company that made them but I couldn't remember what we made them for. Rob Michigan, USA On Friday, February 14, 2003, at 10:10 AM, Tim Myers wrote: > Almost the last item in my Transputer collection is now up on Ebay - > this is a boxed B012 clone (Transtech TMB12) with 4 20MHz T805 TRAMs on > board. > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2308085144 if > anyone's interested. > > Still to come is an Inmos analogue TRAM. > > Tim. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Feb 14 11:51:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? References: <1591341949.20030214062327@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E4D2B42.5020508@jetnet.ab.ca> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3401934914&category=1247 > > They think it's a PDP-8 panel, but I highly doubt that given: > > (0) It's got 24 bits, or maybe 18 + 6 if you look closely. > (1) The switches are the wrong color > (2) No "|D|I|G|I|T|A|L| PDP-8" anywhere on it > (3) Doesn't look like any PDP-8 I've ever seen > > So what is it? > I have no idea but it looks COOL. In fact I building 24 bit computer and want that panel ( but not at ebay prices. The question here is who made 18 bit computers? as the layout suggests that to me from the markings around the switches. Ben. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Feb 14 12:07:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) References: <20030214071458.38551.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501c2d453$7547a980$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Thanks to all who helped! I checked out my backplane (NOW I see why the 44's always tilt up in the rack, so you can frequently get to the backplane wiring) and sure enough, missing NPR jumpers. I wire wrapped them back in (laughing at just how long ago it was since I had to use a wirewrap tool) and now - voila. The 44 comes up just fine, passing T, T/E, and T/A tests anyways. I can also deposit and examine a random memory location or two, probably a good sign. Now I just have to find out why it doesn't seem to think I have a TU58 attached...then get some RL02's up... Another question - I was perusing the net for what OS's I can run on the 44. I already have RT11 with TSX+ up on another machine, so on this one I was looking for something different. Being as my bent is multiuser basic machines (like HP2000 TSB), I was piqued by some references to EduSystem25 I think it's called. I got the impression it USED to be Poly BASIC, but that software was later acquired by DEC and turned into the EduSystem25. There was a link saying where EduSystem25 can be found, but alas, the link is dead. Does anyone know where manuals and media might be found for EduSystem25? Thanks! Jay West From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 14 12:11:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? In-Reply-To: <1591341949.20030214062327@subatomix.com> Message-ID: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3401934914&category=1247 > >They think it's a PDP-8 panel, but I highly doubt that given: > >(0) It's got 24 bits, or maybe 18 + 6 if you look closely. >(1) The switches are the wrong color >(2) No "|D|I|G|I|T|A|L| PDP-8" anywhere on it >(3) Doesn't look like any PDP-8 I've ever seen > >So what is it? Good question, I'm pretty sure it's not DEC (unless it's from an 18-bit system). In looking at the switches, even though they're the wrong colour, they appear to be closer to those found on an IMSAI 8080. Another oddity is the two keys per panel. It would be nice if the poster had given some info on what is written on the panels, or provided a better photo (so we could read it ourselves). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dundas at caltech.edu Fri Feb 14 12:14:00 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) In-Reply-To: <001501c2d453$7547a980$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20030214071458.38551.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jay, At 10:04 AM -0800 2/14/03, Jay West wrote: >Another question - I was perusing the net for what OS's I can run on the 44. >I already have RT11 with TSX+ up on another machine, so on this one I was >looking for something different. Being as my bent is multiuser basic >machines (like HP2000 TSB), I was piqued by some references to EduSystem25 I >think it's called. I got the impression it USED to be Poly BASIC, but that >software was later acquired by DEC and turned into the EduSystem25. There >was a link saying where EduSystem25 can be found, but alas, the link is >dead. Does anyone know where manuals and media might be found for >EduSystem25? I remember the EduSystems from the early to mid '70s. My experience is these ran on PDP-8s, not -11s. John From dbwood at kc.rr.com Fri Feb 14 12:21:00 2003 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question References: <1045007651.335.18.camel@voltaire.home.net> Message-ID: <127b01c2d454$82852360$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> I have a Gateway 2000 Handbook 486. Does any one know if Windows 95/98 will load on it? TIA. Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Feb 14 12:22:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? In-Reply-To: <3E4D2B42.5020508@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3401934914&category=1247 > > > > They think it's a PDP-8 panel, but I highly doubt that given: > > > > (0) It's got 24 bits, or maybe 18 + 6 if you look closely. > > (1) The switches are the wrong color > > (2) No "|D|I|G|I|T|A|L| PDP-8" anywhere on it > > (3) Doesn't look like any PDP-8 I've ever seen > > > > So what is it? > > > > I have no idea but it looks COOL. In fact I building > 24 bit computer and want that panel ( but not at ebay > prices. The question here is who made 18 bit computers? at least DEC: PDP 1,4,7,9,15... > as the layout suggests that to me from the markings > around the switches. Ben. > Looks like 2 panels Peter Wallace From marvin at rain.org Fri Feb 14 12:39:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question References: <1045007651.335.18.camel@voltaire.home.net> <127b01c2d454$82852360$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E4D3743.690FB776@rain.org> Win95 will load on almost anything with sufficient HD space and at least 4 MB of RAM. I was running Win95 on a 486SX-25 laptop with 4 MB of RAM but it did set new records for being S L O W !!! I've run it quite successfully though on a 486-100 w/ 16 MB of RAM ... more RAM is better :). Douglas Wood wrote: > > I have a Gateway 2000 Handbook 486. Does any one know if Windows 95/98 will > load on it? > > TIA. > > Douglas Wood > Software Engineer > dbwood@kc.rr.com > ICQ#: 143841506 > > Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC > http://epicis.piclist.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Feb 14 12:46:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001501c2d458$f5817db0$020010ac@k4jcw> Nowhere close to an IMSAI. IMSAI's are red and blue, and have square bats, with tight spacing. Perkin Elmer, maybe? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Zane H. Healy > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 13:09 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: What computer is this front panel for? > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3401934914 > &category=1247 > > > >They think it's a PDP-8 panel, but I highly doubt that given: > > > >(0) It's got 24 bits, or maybe 18 + 6 if you look closely. > >(1) The switches are the wrong color > >(2) No "|D|I|G|I|T|A|L| PDP-8" anywhere on it > >(3) Doesn't look like any PDP-8 I've ever seen > > > >So what is it? > > Good question, I'm pretty sure it's not DEC (unless it's from > an 18-bit > system). In looking at the switches, even though they're the > wrong colour, > they appear to be closer to those found on an IMSAI 8080. > Another oddity > is the two keys per panel. > > It would be nice if the poster had given some info on what is > written on > the panels, or provided a better photo (so we could read it > ourselves). > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From robinm at rpi.edu Fri Feb 14 12:52:00 2003 From: robinm at rpi.edu (Michael Robinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #370 - 5 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030214180001.73484.61926.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > > Could someone scan the engineering drawings for an H217C stack? > > Go to http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec or > http://www.maincoon.com/classiccmp one or both will have drawings for > the 11/05. Hmm, we do have the drawings for the 11/05. However, neither of the above sites seem to have drawings of the H217C. > > This is partly for my own edification (I have one such board in my > > machine), and partly because of the fact that this "new" pdp-11/05 has no > > core with it. Its engineering drawings seem to indicate that it wants > > 4 or 8kW of core (one or more of H213-H216), *not* the 16kW of a H217. > > (Granted, by placing two H214s into a chassis we get 16kW, but I > > digress.) > > It will depend upon which backplane you have. If it's an 11/05-S > backplane then it's the same as what I have and you can go to > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/11-10/index.html to see how to use an > H217C (which is what I have in mine). I'm fairly sure it's not an 11/05-S, though I could obviously be wrong. I don't have the machine in front of me right now. Looking at the machine you have, the form-factor is very different (that, of course is not conclusive). This machine looks like a lower-profile beast, the modules enter from the side of the chassis, which is a pain because you have to take the machine out of the rack to get at them. > > If so, the next question is, can I do this with an H217? (Drop in an > > H217C, and tell the machine that it's really an H214/H215.) This might > > sound like a gratuitous waste of core, which it is, but I happen to have > > another core board (not in my machine) that could be used... So anyway, > > the engineering drawings would answer this question really fast. > > > > It's not so much the drawings but the wirelist for the backplane. You > really need to know which backplane you have. I have that. Again, my question is what does the H217 look like in comparison to the H213-H216 family? Pretty much the only piece of data I need to answer my question is the engineering drawings of the H217... Guy: BTW, the proud owner of this machine is Jesse Kempf, whom I believe you have talked with. He's not on classiccmp, though. Thanks, Michael Robinson RPI Electronics Club Vaxherd/PDP-11 Fixer robinm@rpi.edu From grg2 at attbi.com Fri Feb 14 12:54:00 2003 From: grg2 at attbi.com (grg2@attbi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:51 2005 Subject: vaxstation 3000? Message-ID: <200302141853.h1EIrcm74044@huey.classiccmp.org> Anybody have any interest in a VaxStation 3000? Looks clean, no monitor or kbd. BTW is there a faq about hooking up a VGA monitor to a Vaxstation video connector? Regards, George From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 14 12:58:27 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: <3E4D3743.690FB776@rain.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Win95 will load on almost anything with sufficient HD space and at least > 4 MB of RAM. I was running Win95 on a 486SX-25 laptop with 4 MB of RAM > but it did set new records for being S L O W !!! I've run it quite > successfully though on a 486-100 w/ 16 MB of RAM ... more RAM is better > :). > Douglas Wood wrote: > > I have a Gateway 2000 Handbook 486. Does any one know if Windows 95/98 will > > load on it? Win95 does require at least a 386SX. (with 4M RAM) Win98 has similar requirements for RUNNING it, but the installation/setup requires the presence of a math co-processor. Therefore, 386SX PLUS 387SX, or 386 + 387 , . . . or 486DX (rather than SX). Q:can you install it with a math coprocessor, and then REMOVE the math coprocessor before running it? Since a 386SX is limited to a maximum of 16M of RAM, it might not be possible to run some of the newer versions of Windoze. From ggs at shiresoft.com Fri Feb 14 13:08:00 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #370 - 5 msgs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1045249446.2074.66.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Fri, 2003-02-14 at 10:50, Michael Robinson wrote: > > > Could someone scan the engineering drawings for an H217C stack? > > > > Go to http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec or > > http://www.maincoon.com/classiccmp one or both will have drawings for > > the 11/05. > > Hmm, we do have the drawings for the 11/05. However, neither of the above > sites seem to have drawings of the H217C. > Look for MM11-U(P). The option (with backplane) is MF11-U(P). It'll cover the G235, G114, H217 and the M8293. The other one I believe is MM11-L which uses the smaller core. > > > This is partly for my own edification (I have one such board in my > > > machine), and partly because of the fact that this "new" pdp-11/05 has no > > > core with it. Its engineering drawings seem to indicate that it wants > > > 4 or 8kW of core (one or more of H213-H216), *not* the 16kW of a H217. > > > (Granted, by placing two H214s into a chassis we get 16kW, but I > > > digress.) > > > > It will depend upon which backplane you have. If it's an 11/05-S > > backplane then it's the same as what I have and you can go to > > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/11-10/index.html to see how to use an > > H217C (which is what I have in mine). > > I'm fairly sure it's not an 11/05-S, though I could obviously be wrong. I > don't have the machine in front of me right now. Looking at the machine > you have, the form-factor is very different (that, of course is not > conclusive). This machine looks like a lower-profile beast, the modules > enter from the side of the chassis, which is a pain because you have to > take the machine out of the rack to get at them. You can't tell by how it's oriented. It's the backplane. If you look there should be a tag indicating the type of backplane it is. You should see 11/05-S. If you can't find that, atleast get the part #. We can probably cross reference off that. > > > > If so, the next question is, can I do this with an H217? (Drop in an > > > H217C, and tell the machine that it's really an H214/H215.) This might > > > sound like a gratuitous waste of core, which it is, but I happen to have > > > another core board (not in my machine) that could be used... So anyway, > > > the engineering drawings would answer this question really fast. > > > > > > > It's not so much the drawings but the wirelist for the backplane. You > > really need to know which backplane you have. > > I have that. Again, my question is what does the H217 look like in > comparison to the H213-H216 family? Pretty much the only piece of data I > need to answer my question is the engineering drawings of the H217... > > Guy: BTW, the proud owner of this machine is Jesse Kempf, whom I believe > you have talked with. He's not on classiccmp, though. Yes. I talked to him yesterday. He's pretty stoked. > > Thanks, > Michael Robinson > RPI Electronics Club Vaxherd/PDP-11 Fixer robinm@rpi.edu -- TTFN - Guy From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Feb 14 13:12:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: vaxstation 3000? In-Reply-To: <200302141853.h1EIrcm74044@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030214135941.00a422a0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > BTW is there a faq about hooking up a VGA monitor to a > Vaxstation video connector? I've done it, for testing purposes. IIRC, I used the DEC cable which ended in BNC, joined, by using BNC/BNC straight adapters, to a BNC to HD15 cable, to a SONY 5 BNC Multisync Monitor ( Sony, Radius, Rasterops, HP branded ? whichever is handy at the time). Probably only hooked R,G, and B though. The Sonys can accept separate sync ( all 5 BNC's connected ), composite sync ( 4 BNC's connected ), and sync on green ( 3 BNC's connected ), and will autosense and autoswitch to the correct sync type. Never took it all the way to a GUI though. Just wanted to get a text screen to make sure the box was alive. At 06:51 PM 2/14/03 +0000, you wrote: >Anybody have any interest in a VaxStation 3000? >Looks clean, no monitor or kbd. > >BTW is there a faq about hooking up a VGA monitor to a >Vaxstation video connector? > >Regards, > > >George From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Feb 14 13:23:01 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: vaxstation 3000? In-Reply-To: <200302141853.h1EIrcm74044@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 grg2@attbi.com wrote: > Anybody have any interest in a VaxStation 3000? > Looks clean, no monitor or kbd. > > BTW is there a faq about hooking up a VGA monitor to a > Vaxstation video connector? > > Regards, > > > George > Sure that's not a VAXstation 3100 or DEC 3000 (TC alpha)? Dont think there is a VAXstation 3000... Peter Wallace From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Feb 14 13:46:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: vaxstation 3000? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030214135941.00a422a0@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> References: <200302141853.h1EIrcm74044@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030214144125.00a26a70@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Forgot a couple of steps. > to a BNC to HD15M cable to a HD15F/HD15F gender changer to a HD15M to BNC video cable > to a SONY 5 BNC Multisync Monitor At 02:09 PM 2/14/03 -0500, you wrote: > > BTW is there a faq about hooking up a VGA monitor to a > > Vaxstation video connector? > > >I've done it, for testing purposes. IIRC, I used the DEC cable which >ended in BNC, joined, by using BNC/BNC straight adapters, to a >BNC to HD15 cable, to a SONY 5 BNC Multisync Monitor ( Sony, >Radius, Rasterops, HP branded ? whichever is handy at the time). >Probably only hooked R,G, and B though. The Sonys can accept >separate sync ( all 5 BNC's connected ), composite sync ( 4 BNC's >connected ), and sync on green ( 3 BNC's connected ), and will >autosense and autoswitch to the correct sync type. Never took it all >the way to a GUI though. Just wanted to get a text screen to make >sure the box was alive. > > > > > > > > >At 06:51 PM 2/14/03 +0000, you wrote: >>Anybody have any interest in a VaxStation 3000? >>Looks clean, no monitor or kbd. >> >>BTW is there a faq about hooking up a VGA monitor to a >>Vaxstation video connector? >> >>Regards, >> >> >>George From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 14 14:20:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: VGA screens on.. (was RE: vaxstation 3000?) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DA78@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > > BTW is there a faq about hooking up a VGA monitor to a > > Vaxstation video connector? I was able to dump all DEC single-frequency tubes by getting some IDEK (Iiyama) 17" color monitors which have both VGA and BNC (3 and 5, SOG supported) ports. Excellent picture, including GPX/SPX/SPX+ and the PMAG cards! --f From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 14 14:27:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: New find: pdp-11/05 Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DA79@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Henk wrote: > From an 11/05 pocket guide I know that there exist 3 different > versions of the 11/10 backplane with distinct differences as to > in which slots the boards go! > Sorry, can't be of more help (yet), because I do not have a copy > of that 11/10 pocket guide booklet. I actually saw that guide today. The main difference is the amount of core memory the backplane will support, and, hence, the backplane slot layout for the system. It is VERY important to know which kind of backplane you have, otherwise, damage to the boards WILL occur ! You can just slide out the backplane from the cage, and read the ID on the sticker. --fred From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 14 14:44:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) In-Reply-To: <001501c2d453$7547a980$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20030214071458.38551.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <001501c2d453$7547a980$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4549.4.20.168.218.1045255303.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jay wrote: > I was perusing the net for what OS's I can run on the > 44. [...] Being as my bent is multiuser > basic machines (like HP2000 TSB), I was piqued by some references to > EduSystem25 I think it's called. I got the impression it USED to be Poly > BASIC, but that software was later acquired by DEC and turned into the > EduSystem25. Well, if you want the One True Multiuser BASIC for the PDP-11, it's RSTS/E. From schoedel at host.kw.igs.net Fri Feb 14 15:00:01 2003 From: schoedel at host.kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200302142057.h1EKvZx51260@host.kw.igs.net> > (0) It's got 24 bits, or maybe 18 + 6 if you look closely. I think 24, since the numbers don't restart. Bit 0 is at the right, which might rule out some machines. I'm pretty sure the first word at the top is "DISPLAY"; the next might be "REGISTER", but I'm not certain. I think the word that labels bits 18-21 might be "INSTRUCTION". Can anyone think of a machine with a 4-bit opcode and 18-bit address? I think the next word (first of two labelling 0-17) is the same. -- Kevin Schoedel From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Feb 14 15:43:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) In-Reply-To: <4549.4.20.168.218.1045255303.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > Well, if you want the One True Multiuser BASIC for the PDP-11, > it's RSTS/E. > Naive question - will RSTS/E run on an 11/73? g. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 14 15:46:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DA7B@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > Naive question - will RSTS/E run on an 11/73? Yes. Very nicely, too. --fred From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Feb 14 15:47:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1045259081.28640.10.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Fri, 2003-02-14 at 16:47, Gene Buckle wrote: > > Well, if you want the One True Multiuser BASIC for the PDP-11, > > it's RSTS/E. > > > Naive question - will RSTS/E run on an 11/73? > > g. I'm pretty sure it will. At least, I have it running on an 11/83 which is similar to the 11/73. I also have it running on an 11/24. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 14 15:54:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) In-Reply-To: References: <4549.4.20.168.218.1045255303.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1310.4.20.168.218.1045259493.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Naive question - will RSTS/E run on an 11/73? Yes. It requires 18-bit addressing, though later releases work much better on machines with 22-bit addressing. It doesn't need I&D space but can take advantage of it. From kth at srv.net Fri Feb 14 16:06:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) References: Message-ID: <3E4D6D43.5080806@srv.net> Gene Buckle wrote: >>Well, if you want the One True Multiuser BASIC for the PDP-11, >>it's RSTS/E. >> >> >> >Naive question - will RSTS/E run on an 11/73? > As long as you have a current enough version that handles the hardware you have in the machine. Not sure which version first understood qbus, mscp, etc. Mentec allows you to use up to version 9.6 in their hobbyest program, but I don't know if it is limited to emulators only. Version 7, and emulators, available at http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Feb 14 16:08:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) In-Reply-To: <1045259081.28640.10.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: > I'm pretty sure it will. At least, I have it running on an 11/83 which > is similar to the 11/73. I also have it running on an 11/24. > > -- Thanks. Maybe I'll take the time to try it. :) g. From ggs at shiresoft.com Fri Feb 14 16:21:00 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #370 - 5 msgs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1045261028.2074.111.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Fri, 2003-02-14 at 10:50, Michael Robinson wrote: > > > Could someone scan the engineering drawings for an H217C stack? > I have that. Again, my question is what does the H217 look like in > comparison to the H213-H216 family? Pretty much the only piece of data I > need to answer my question is the engineering drawings of the H217... > http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/MF11 Core Memory/ (I don't know if the above will work as a link because of the embedded spaces in the name). It should have everything you need. -- TTFN - Guy From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Feb 14 16:28:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #370 - 5 msgs References: <1045261028.2074.111.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <3E4D6D41.9070708@gifford.co.uk> Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Fri, 2003-02-14 at 10:50, Michael Robinson wrote: > http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/MF11 Core Memory/ > (I don't know if the above will work as a link because of the embedded > spaces in the name). Try replacing the spaces with a hex escape: http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/MF11%20Core%20Memory/ Never miss an opportunity to mention hex on ClassicCmp! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 14 17:22:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: HP 7980S 800bpi option? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DA7C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi, A long time ago, Frank McDonnel wrote: > For 7980s, 1600 and 6250 are standard and 800 is an option. > 7980A is HP-IB, 7980S is SCSI (single-ended). There's also > an "XC" option which does in-the-drive compression on 6250BPI > tapes; I think this option does not coexist with the 800BPI > option. I have one of these drives, and am very happy with it. It would be even better if I had a manual :) But, seriously. I am (desperately :) looking for this 800bpi module for the drive; I have the XC option which I'm willing to remove in favor of the 800bpi module. Does anyone here have an option part number, or, even better, the option itself ? *help* [squeeky-voice scream] --fred From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 14 17:24:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) In-Reply-To: from "Gene Buckle" at Feb 14, 2003 01:47:17 PM Message-ID: <200302142322.h1ENM3H00984@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Well, if you want the One True Multiuser BASIC for the PDP-11, > > it's RSTS/E. > > > Naive question - will RSTS/E run on an 11/73? > > g. Well, my /73 seems to think that it can :^) Of course having a version that supports MSCP disks will make your life easier. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 14 17:30:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Handy" at Feb 14, 2003 03:27:15 PM Message-ID: <200302142327.h1ENRUl01375@shell1.aracnet.com> > Mentec allows you to use up to version 9.6 in their hobbyest > program, but I don't know if it is limited to emulators only. > > Version 7, and emulators, available at > > http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ Not only is it limited to emulators, but it's also limited to emulators owned by DEC. The actual verbage in the license is: "EMULATOR shall mean software owned by Digital Equipment Corporation that emulates the operation of a PDP-11 processor and allows PDP-11 programs and operating systems to run on non-PDP-11 systems." It's commonly accepted that this means SIMH, as Bob Supnik was a DEC VP at the time. You can see the complete license at my website: http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp11emu.html There is a Hobbyist License in the works that would allow certain versions of the OS's that Mentec has to be run on real hardware. Some unfortunate circumstances have held it up though. Zane From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 14 17:34:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DA7D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > There is a Hobbyist License in the works that would allow > certain versions of the OS's that Mentec has to be run on > real hardware. Right. > Some unfortunate circumstances have held it up though. Ahh, what excuses do they (Mentec) claim these days, then? --fred From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Feb 14 17:42:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) In-Reply-To: <200302142327.h1ENRUl01375@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > There is a Hobbyist License in the works that would allow certain versions > of the OS's that Mentec has to be run on real hardware. Some unfortunate > circumstances have held it up though. > I take it that just buying a copy of RSTS/E from Mentec is stupidly expensive? g. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Feb 14 17:46:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1045266225.29428.0.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Fri, 2003-02-14 at 18:46, Gene Buckle wrote: > > There is a Hobbyist License in the works that would allow certain versions > > of the OS's that Mentec has to be run on real hardware. Some unfortunate > > circumstances have held it up though. > > > > I take it that just buying a copy of RSTS/E from Mentec is stupidly > expensive? > I think it runs about $1600.00, and that does not include any of the layered products. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 14 17:54:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: HP 7980S 800bpi option? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DA7C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DA7C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <1479.4.20.168.218.1045266702.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I have one of these drives, and am very happy with it. It would > be even better if I had a manual :) As of 18 months ago, the user manual and service manual were still orderable from HP. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 14 18:35:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive for sale in India(!) Message-ID: Here's the guy in India again. I doubt anyone will jump on this offer, especially after Lawson's incredible tale of Indian customs malfeasance, but if you do get it, I'm sure it'll make for a very entertaining story. Reply-to: rajatkakkar@rediffmail.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:23:15 +0530 From: rajatkakkar To: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: Re: HP 7970 E spool disk drive Respected Sir / Madam, I want to sell the HP 7970 E spool disk drive, as I am not putting it to any use. Hence, please guide me regarding the web-sites through whom I can sell or even donate it to a person / organisation where it should be put to some good use. Regards Rajat Kakkar -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Feb 14 19:05:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: dongle ! References: <000901c2d1d2$f980cb60$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> Message-ID: <3E4D92A4.9000106@tiac.net> They are individually keyed to the software licensse. Good luck! Jo?l Weber wrote: >hello, i search a dongle for a "Avid XpressDV" program. where can i found >it? From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 14 19:19:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Good question, I'm pretty sure it's not DEC (unless it's from an 18-bit > system). In looking at the switches, even though they're the wrong colour, > they appear to be closer to those found on an IMSAI 8080. Another oddity > is the two keys per panel. IMSAI switches are a bit wider and more square. These look like they slide like PDP switches. The IMSAI switches have a definite to them. > It would be nice if the poster had given some info on what is written on > the panels, or provided a better photo (so we could read it ourselves). Perhaps someone can mail the chap and ask him if there are any distinguishing marks on the PCBs. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Feb 14 19:22:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: vaxstation 3000? References: <200302141853.h1EIrcm74044@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000001c2d490$82fd4250$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 1:51 PM Subject: vaxstation 3000? > Anybody have any interest in a VaxStation 3000? > Looks clean, no monitor or kbd. Where is it at? > Regards, > > > George Bob From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 14 19:38:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? In-Reply-To: <200302142057.h1EKvZx51260@host.kw.igs.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Kevin Schoedel wrote: > > (0) It's got 24 bits, or maybe 18 + 6 if you look closely. > > I think 24, since the numbers don't restart. Bit 0 is at the right, > which might rule out some machines. > > I'm pretty sure the first word at the top is "DISPLAY"; the next > might be "REGISTER", but I'm not certain. I think the word that > labels bits 18-21 might be "INSTRUCTION". Can anyone think of a > machine with a 4-bit opcode and 18-bit address? I think the next > word (first of two labelling 0-17) is the same. Now that I've looked at it more, it almost looks like a Four Phase Systems front panel. It can't remember now, but I believe it was either a 16- or 18-bit machine (18-bits would make sense with regards to these front panels). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Feb 14 20:41:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: Edusystem25 et all References: <20030214071458.38551.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00f301c2d49b$53d877f0$3b89cecf@HPLAPTOP> John wrote... > I remember the EduSystems from the early to mid '70s. My experience is > these ran on PDP-8s, not -11s. Uggg you're right... I was thinking over several things at once and my brain slipped a gear. 1) I was looking for the Edusystem25 for my PDP-8E. The only link I could find about it was broken, so I was wondering if anyone knew much about this OS, particularly the hardware requirements (my 8E is very "low end"), and if manuals and media were around. 2) I was wondering if there was something besides RT11, RSX, or RSTS/E as to a multiuser basic environment for the 11/44. Perhaps I'll go with RSTS, I have a copy of that on an 11/73 here. Just curious if there were more choices for a BASIC environment than those for my 44. Thanks! Jay West From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 14 20:46:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: Edusystem25 et all In-Reply-To: <00f301c2d49b$53d877f0$3b89cecf@HPLAPTOP> References: <20030214071458.38551.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <00f301c2d49b$53d877f0$3b89cecf@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3485.4.20.168.218.1045277021.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jay wrote: > 2) I was wondering if there was something besides RT11, RSX, or RSTS/E > as to a multiuser basic environment for the 11/44. Perhaps I'll go with > RSTS, I have a copy of that on an 11/73 here. Just curious if there were > more choices for a BASIC environment than those for my 44. There was MUBASIC that ran on RT11. I don't know much about it, nor where to get it. I imagine that under TSX11+ multiple users should be able to run RT11 BASIC. From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Feb 14 22:08:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: Probably OT: Exabyte tape drives Message-ID: <3E4DBC8F.1060109@eoni.com> A friend seems to have come into a pile of Exabyte 8505XL and tapes. 18gb IIRC. Supposedly for Suns, but perusing Exabyte's site shows that they'll fit in just about everything except Mac. Any interest? Anyone know what they might be worth? P-mail reply please. Judging from some of the other lists I'm on, the moon seems to be in an intolerant to OT posts phase. Jim From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Feb 14 22:10:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) In-Reply-To: <1045266225.29428.0.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: > > I take it that just buying a copy of RSTS/E from Mentec is stupidly > > expensive? > > > > I think it runs about $1600.00, and that does not include any of the > layered products. Yep, stupidly expensive. Such is life I guess. :) g. From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Feb 14 22:43:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: Probably OT: Exabyte tape drives In-Reply-To: <3E4DBC8F.1060109@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Jim Arnott wrote: > A friend seems to have come into a pile of Exabyte 8505XL and tapes. > 18gb IIRC. Supposedly for Suns, but perusing Exabyte's site shows that > they'll fit in just about everything except Mac. Any interest? Anyone > know what they might be worth? > > > > P-mail reply please. Judging from some of the other lists I'm on, the > moon seems to be in an intolerant to OT posts phase. I'm not sure I'd call them completely OT. Just 7/14GB (uncompressed / compressed) on an 8mm DAT tape. When they get old, they tend to drift (helical scan heads) and may start producing tapes that won't be read by other drives without re-alignment. They look to be the same capacity as the Exabyte 8700, basically extended length "XL" 8500 drives. I've got an 8700 and an 8500 that came with a pile of first-generation RS/6000 hardware, and some more 8700s that came with a fairly new (by CCmp standards) NCR refrigerator (worldmark 5100M). Looking at Exabyte's docs, their technical doc was updated last in 1994 - which means the drives may have been out in 1993, and probably are on-topic. Personally, if you want reliable backups, I'd stick with a DDS 4mm DAT drive (which I have one of - and the tapes are cheap), a DLT drive (if you can spend the dough on tapes), or optical media drive. Of course, some of those _are_ off-topic. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jss at subatomix.com Sat Feb 15 02:19:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <362071208.20030215021736@subatomix.com> On Friday, February 14, 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: VCF> IMSAI switches are a bit wider and more square. These look like they VCF> slide like PDP switches. The IMSAI switches have a definite to VCF> them. The click, or lack thereof, is one of the things that has most surprised me in this hobby. When all I knew was a set of pictures, I just assumed that all the switches on all the blinkenlights panels of all the manufacturers clicked. When I flipped my first DEC switches (A PDP-8 in Saint Louis, I think), I thought they were broken. They slid smoothly instead of clicking. Not all DEC switches slide, though. I had a PDP-11/10 chassis once, and the switches on it clicked. -- Jeffrey Sharp From tim.myers at sunplan.com Sat Feb 15 06:33:01 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: More Transputer equipment for sale In-Reply-To: <47ED6A5A-4030-11D7-BCCA-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <007701c2d4ee$bbcc5270$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> > Hurray, finally something that uses 30pin SIP's . I have a mess of > these things. I use to work for a company that made them but I > couldn't remember what we made them for. IIRC the Ergo 'Brick' (486 PC the size of a large hardbacked novel) used them - we once made SIPs out of 30 pin SIMMs and pins to fit that... From joe_web at worldonline.fr Sat Feb 15 07:10:01 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: dongle ! References: <000901c2d1d2$f980cb60$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> <3E4D92A4.9000106@tiac.net> Message-ID: <000b01c2d4f3$f7679f60$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> i know that ! can you say me where i can find some one, or a dongle crack? thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 2:06 AM Subject: Re: dongle ! > They are individually keyed to the software licensse. Good luck! > > Jo?l Weber wrote: > > >hello, i search a dongle for a "Avid XpressDV" program. where can i found > >it? From wpointon at earthlink.net Sat Feb 15 08:22:00 2003 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: <127b01c2d454$82852360$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: most definitely - ive worked on many of those and used to refurbish them - billp On Friday, February 14, 2003, at 01:11 , Douglas Wood wrote: > I have a Gateway 2000 Handbook 486. Does any one know if Windows 95/98 > will > load on it? > > TIA. > > Douglas Wood > Software Engineer > dbwood@kc.rr.com > ICQ#: 143841506 > > Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC > http://epicis.piclist.com From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Feb 15 08:54:01 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: More Transputer equipment for sale In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:35:27 GMT." <007701c2d4ee$bbcc5270$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: <200302151304.NAA13863@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Tim Myers" said: > > Hurray, finally something that uses 30pin SIP's . I have a mess of > > these things. I use to work for a company that made them but I > > couldn't remember what we made them for. > > IIRC the Ergo 'Brick' (486 PC the size of a large hardbacked novel) > used them - we once made SIPs out of 30 pin SIMMs and pins to fit > that... I remember making them as well, for an early 386 motherboard. I must still have some around here somewhere. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From fernande at internet1.net Sat Feb 15 12:22:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E4E83FD.10905@internet1.net> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Win95 does require at least a 386SX. (with 4M RAM) I thought Win95 required a 386DX-33? Also, I think, that is only the osr1. I think OSR2 has higher requirements. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Feb 15 12:30:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: dongle ! In-Reply-To: <000b01c2d4f3$f7679f60$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> Message-ID: You could always go out and *buy* the software. g. On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, [iso-8859-1] Joël Weber wrote: > i know that ! can you say me where i can find some one, or a dongle crack? > thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Shannon" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 2:06 AM > Subject: Re: dongle ! > > > > They are individually keyed to the software licensse. Good luck! > > > > Joël Weber wrote: > > > > >hello, i search a dongle for a "Avid XpressDV" program. where can i found > > >it? From allain at panix.com Sat Feb 15 12:54:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: 11/44 is alive :) References: Message-ID: <006c01c2d523$420216c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> I think it runs about $1600.00, and that does not include any of the >> layered products. > Yep, stupidly expensive. Such is life I guess. :) I'd rather pay $160 and have ten times too many bugs. No wait, that's what I have. John A. From kth at srv.net Sat Feb 15 12:58:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: Edusystem25 et all References: <20030214071458.38551.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <00f301c2d49b$53d877f0$3b89cecf@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3E4E92BC.3030606@srv.net> Jay West wrote: >John wrote... > > >>I remember the EduSystems from the early to mid '70s. My experience is >>these ran on PDP-8s, not -11s. >> >> > >Uggg you're right... I was thinking over several things at once and my brain >slipped a gear. > >1) I was looking for the Edusystem25 for my PDP-8E. The only link I could >find about it was broken, so I was wondering if anyone knew much about this >OS, particularly the hardware requirements (my 8E is very "low end"), and if >manuals and media were around. > >2) I was wondering if there was something besides RT11, RSX, or RSTS/E as to >a multiuser basic environment for the 11/44. Perhaps I'll go with RSTS, I >have a copy of that on an 11/73 here. Just curious if there were more >choices for a BASIC environment than those for my 44. > > There's always Unix. Most of them had some type of BASIC available, but probably none as nice as Basic/Plus on RSTS/E. From joe_web at worldonline.fr Sat Feb 15 13:45:00 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: dongle ! References: Message-ID: <000701c2d52a$b5c933c0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> give you me yhe money ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" To: Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 7:34 PM Subject: Re: dongle ! > You could always go out and *buy* the software. > > g. > > > On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, [iso-8859-1] Jo?l Weber wrote: > > > i know that ! can you say me where i can find some one, or a dongle crack? > > thanks > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bob Shannon" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 2:06 AM > > Subject: Re: dongle ! > > > > > > > They are individually keyed to the software licensse. Good luck! > > > > > > Jo?l Weber wrote: > > > > > > >hello, i search a dongle for a "Avid XpressDV" program. where can i found > > > >it? From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 15 14:42:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Re: dongle ! In-Reply-To: <000b01c2d4f3$f7679f60$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> References: <000901c2d1d2$f980cb60$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> <3E4D92A4.9000106@tiac.net> <000b01c2d4f3$f7679f60$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> Message-ID: <32900.64.169.63.74.1045341576.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jo?l Weber wrote: > hello, i search a dongle for a "Avid XpressDV" program. where can i > found it? Joel later wrote: > i know that ! can you say me where i can find some one, or a dongle > crack? thanks Look, did I miss something here, or is this *seriously* off topic? I don't know anything about Avid XpressDV, except that a Google search suggests that it's a currently sold product. So it fails that 10-year test. Whether to copy out-of-print software without the owner's permission is perhaps a reasonable subject for debate. But IMNSHO it is *extremely* tacky to use this list to ask for "cracks" for currently sold products. If I were the owner of the list, it would be grounds for expulsion. (Fortunately I'm not.) I'm not going to try to take a moral high ground and claim that I've never made unauthorized copies of software (whether it was still commercially available at the time or not). In fact, I'll admit that in my youth I did a lot of that. However, I didn't ask for cracks in a public forum, and especially not one for which that software is totally off-topic anyhow. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 15 14:44:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: [OT] was Re: dongle ! In-Reply-To: <000701c2d52a$b5c933c0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> References: <000701c2d52a$b5c933c0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> Message-ID: <32902.64.169.63.74.1045341699.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > give you me yhe money ! Get a job. From joe_web at worldonline.fr Sat Feb 15 15:06:00 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: dongle ! References: Message-ID: <000801c2d535$cfc878c0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> hello, i'm sorry ! that what i hd would say is: some one hd me give the ORIGINAL software, but in this, the dongle wasn't ! so, my question, was : can some one frou you, say me where i can BUY a dongle, for the AVID XPRESS DV ? all my programs, are ORIGINALS ! i haven't a pirate copy! joel From tim.myers at sunplan.com Sat Feb 15 15:15:01 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: dongle ! In-Reply-To: <000801c2d535$cfc878c0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> Message-ID: <008101c2d537$a642fa00$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> > say me where i can BUY a dongle, for the AVID XPRESS DV ? all http://www.avid.com/products/howtobuy/index.html From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 15 15:30:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: [OT] Re: dongle ! In-Reply-To: <000801c2d535$cfc878c0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> References: <000801c2d535$cfc878c0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> Message-ID: <33216.64.169.63.74.1045344468.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jo?l Weber wrote: > some one hd me give the ORIGINAL software, but in this, the dongle > wasn't ! OK, sorry I jumped on you about copying. But it's still of-topic for this list. Anyhow, I don't think there's any way to get one other than from the manufacturer. If Bob is right, getting a second-hand dongle won't work for you anyhow. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Feb 15 15:42:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:52 2005 Subject: NeXTStation Color DSP cable pinout Message-ID: <13590F0E-412E-11D7-BF49-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I recently accquired a NeXTStation Color, complete with color monitor and DSP box. Unfortunately, I don't have the cable to go from the NeXTStation to the DSP box, and therefore, I can't use the computer because the keyboard also connects to the DSP box. Does anyone have the pinout for this cable? Also, how does everything connect? I have seen various info on the internet that conflicts. I am assuming by looking at it that the monitor port is just a monitor port, and connects to the monitor through a standard 13W3 cable (came with the computer, but it Sun branded). Then the sound box would connect to the computer through the DB-15 on the back of the computer labelled "DSP" and to the DB-19 port on the sound box. Then the keyboard plugs into the sound box. But from searching the internet, I have found things such as this http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/nextcolor/monitor_cable.jpg that show a three headed cable that would connect the monitor to the computer, and to the back of the sound box. But then what would the DSP port be used for? And how would the computer get the signals from the keyboard? I'm new to NeXT hardware, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From red at bears.org Sat Feb 15 16:03:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: NeXTStation Color DSP cable pinout In-Reply-To: <13590F0E-412E-11D7-BF49-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <13590F0E-412E-11D7-BF49-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > I recently accquired a NeXTStation Color, complete with color monitor > and DSP box. Unfortunately, I don't have the cable to go from the > NeXTStation to the DSP box, and therefore, I can't use the computer > because the keyboard also connects to the DSP box. What you have is the sound box, and it doesn't connect to the DSP port. > from searching the internet, I have found things such as this > http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/nextcolor/monitor_cable.jpg that > show a three headed cable that would connect the monitor to the > computer, and to the back of the sound box. That's the cable you need. > But then what would the DSP port be used for? Whatever you like. I have a Quix Daydream plugged into my mono NeXTstation. > And how would the computer get the signals from the > keyboard? I'm new to NeXT hardware, so any help would be greatly > appreciated. Thanks! Through the 19-pin end of the cable, that plugs into the monitor port on the back of the NeXT. The original NeXT design specified the "soundbox" built into the monitor. All mono monitors for NeXT have it. The system provided keyboard and mouse signals, audio signals, video signals, and power for the monitor on that one cable, and it was split up inside the monitor. When NeXT introduced systems capable of color graphics, they pulled that circuitry out of the monitor and put it in a separate box. You need the three-way cable. Some soundboxes had ADB (yes, like on a Mac) instead of the traditional NeXT keyboard/mouse interface. ok r. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Feb 15 16:14:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: NeXTStation Color DSP cable pinout In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7B733B34-4132-11D7-BF49-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Ok, so I need one of those three headed cables. Would it possible to add that 19 pin connector into the 13W3 cable that I got with the computer? If I could find the pinouts of that cable, it shouldn't be hard to just cut the 13W3 cable and solder in a length of cable with a DB-19 on it. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 05:00 PM, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > >> I recently accquired a NeXTStation Color, complete with color monitor >> and DSP box. Unfortunately, I don't have the cable to go from the >> NeXTStation to the DSP box, and therefore, I can't use the computer >> because the keyboard also connects to the DSP box. > > What you have is the sound box, and it doesn't connect to the DSP port. > >> from searching the internet, I have found things such as this >> http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/nextcolor/monitor_cable.jpg >> that >> show a three headed cable that would connect the monitor to the >> computer, and to the back of the sound box. > > That's the cable you need. > >> But then what would the DSP port be used for? > > Whatever you like. I have a Quix Daydream plugged into my mono > NeXTstation. > >> And how would the computer get the signals from the >> keyboard? I'm new to NeXT hardware, so any help would be greatly >> appreciated. Thanks! > > Through the 19-pin end of the cable, that plugs into the monitor port > on > the back of the NeXT. > > The original NeXT design specified the "soundbox" built into the > monitor. > All mono monitors for NeXT have it. The system provided keyboard and > mouse > signals, audio signals, video signals, and power for the monitor on > that > one cable, and it was split up inside the monitor. > > When NeXT introduced systems capable of color graphics, they pulled > that > circuitry out of the monitor and put it in a separate box. > > You need the three-way cable. Some soundboxes had ADB (yes, like on > a Mac) instead of the traditional NeXT keyboard/mouse interface. > > ok > r. From rick at netadel.com Sat Feb 15 17:01:36 2003 From: rick at netadel.com (Rick Collette) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Apple IIe / Ddial update Message-ID: <002901c2d324$680a63f0$0201a8c0@netadelxp> Some kind soul left a disk II controller card and a 80 col/64k card on the shelf where all the IIe's are at Weirdstuff. I picked up a platinum IIe, plain old second gen ][e, a pair of disk drives, the cards, and a mono monitor for 25.00. I believe that to be more than reasonable. Now.. I popped in the SS cards I got from Sellam (thanks!), and the disk with Ddial, and loaded it up. Bummer for me is the ddial was the first version that does not support the serial card linking .. Has anyone got a later version of Diversi-Dial? I'd even pay cash for it :) Not too much though, my wife is already irked at the Apple "monstrosity" that "seems to have grown by itself" From fdebros at verizon.net Sat Feb 15 17:02:06 2003 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Probably doesn';t fall under the 20 year rule... Cubix 1010 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030214013702.02593ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <000001c2d437$f1e6f4d0$6401a8c0@fred> Perfect for a cluster! Bus built-in! fred -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Reed Sent: Friday, 14 February, 2003 04.38 To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Probably doesn';t fall under the 20 year rule... Cubix 1010 Local scrapper/reseller ahd a Cubix 1010 "fault tolerant' computer system, it is 2 chassis each with 6 P-200 or 233 boards in them.... From donrecardo at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Feb 15 17:02:27 2003 From: donrecardo at blueyonder.co.uk (Don Recardo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: TIL306 Message-ID: <000801c2d448$c471c780$1601a8c0@don1> Hi I just stumbled across your message ( I think it was you that started it ) asking for a substitute for TIL306 displays I have infact got ten TIL306RS displays in my parts bins Maybe you have allready found a local source for them and so dont need them any more As for cost I know I was surprised at how expensive they were when I bought them but if your interested in any then make me an offer plus postage ( UK Funds only) Don PS I am in England From bbrown at harpercollege.edu Sat Feb 15 17:02:49 2003 From: bbrown at harpercollege.edu (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB779@deathstar.arielnet.com> References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB779@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: What's your question (I support several of these boxes..an 827, a G40 and an H70). -Bob >Anyone out there have experience with HP 9000 "Nova" class systems? >Specifically the 9000/800 I40 especially, but any in the class. > >John bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From bbrown at harpercollege.edu Sat Feb 15 17:03:13 2003 From: bbrown at harpercollege.edu (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB77C@deathstar.arielnet.com> References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB77C@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: Are you sure you're booting off of the install cd? Perhaps there's trouble with the cd drive? -Bob >I have a copy of HPUX 11.0, but I can't seem to boot off the CD. It says >"Bad LIF magic" when I do a boot 52.2.0.0 etc etc. How does one get >these things loaded up with an OS? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Keven Miller > Sent: Wed 2/12/2003 10:07 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Cc: > Subject: Re: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems > > > > > It's probably too old for full parisc-linux support. > > (www.parisc-linux.org) > > > > I was somewhat surprised, but happy that my G40 installed HPUX >11i. > It seems to run ok, but slow with the default 128M memory. > Just added 256M, and will be running more tests soon. > > Keven Miller > >[demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef >which had a name of winmail.dat] bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From aek at spies.com Sat Feb 15 17:03:38 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? Message-ID: <200302141917.h1EJHQq8032761@spies.com> > Perkin Elmer, maybe? Probably Harris. Doesn't match the layout of the original Datacraft 6024. From aek at spies.com Sat Feb 15 17:04:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: 4k x 24 core memory box Message-ID: <200302142157.h1ELvNWJ000666@spies.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11713&item=3007514062 FYI.. Seller (of course) has no clue what it is. From vance at neurotica.com Sat Feb 15 17:04:22 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #370 - 5 msgs In-Reply-To: <1045261028.2074.111.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: On 14 Feb 2003, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Fri, 2003-02-14 at 10:50, Michael Robinson wrote: > > > > Could someone scan the engineering drawings for an H217C stack? > > > I have that. Again, my question is what does the H217 look like in > > comparison to the H213-H216 family? Pretty much the only piece of data I > > need to answer my question is the engineering drawings of the H217... > > > http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/MF11 Core Memory/ > (I don't know if the above will work as a link because of the embedded > spaces in the name). > > It should have everything you need. Just replace the " "'s with "%20"'s. Peace... Sridhar From stuart at stuartsjohnsonfamily.net Sat Feb 15 17:04:44 2003 From: stuart at stuartsjohnsonfamily.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: FA: Dec Dgital PDP8/a Vintage 1976 Era PDP8 / A on eBay Message-ID: <0ad801c2d49d$17291ec0$0200a8c0@cosmo> I know that some of the folks on the list (including myself) enjoy old DEC equipment and when I saw this on eBay I thought that some of the members here might be interested in it. I'm not affiliated with the seller or this auction at all. Dec Dgital PDP8/a Vintage 1976 Era PDP8 / A , Item #3401953610, URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3401953610&category=1247 The opening price is $250 US. I had not seen a picture of a PDP-8 /A before. Good Luck! Stuart Johnson From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Sat Feb 15 17:05:07 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c2d4fb$3a27ec90$0201c80a@vic20> Actually I recall reading about this in a local computer mag about 10 or so years ago. They were talking something along the lines of 1.2gb per tape -- however they were seriousy questioning the device's data reliability. Anyway I've never actually seen a commercial model. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy > Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 8:44 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VHS Tapes as storage. > > > >Hi, I seem to remember reading in popular electronics, > about software that > >would let you use a vcr to backup your computer. I think it > was about 10 > >years ago. Does anyone remember or know anything about > this. My searches on > >google have turned up nothing. Thanks for any help you can provide! > > > >Andrew Strouse > > I don't remember the name, but about seven years ago, one of > the machines I > was responsible for was an HP 9000/750 (Unix system) that had > a commercial > product like this attached. I don't remember anything about > it other than > the fact that the tapes cost about $100 each, as they had to > be specially > certified. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dzubint at vcn.bc.ca Sat Feb 15 17:05:31 2003 From: dzubint at vcn.bc.ca (Thomas Dzubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: VHS Tapes as storage. In-Reply-To: <000201c2d4fb$3a27ec90$0201c80a@vic20> Message-ID: Back about 1983/1984 I was evaluating a computer called the "Alpha microcomputer" for a university department (not to be confused with the DEC Alpha AXP line about six years later") Anyhow, the alpha micro had a tape backup unit that you could use the same tapes that you used in your VCR although back then it probably wasn't VHS-format, it was probably Beta (Hey there's a joke in there somewhere... "use a Beta tape on your Alpha micro") Thomas Dzubin On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Tomer Gabel wrote: > Actually I recall reading about this in a local computer mag about 10 or so > years ago. They were talking something along the lines of 1.2gb per tape -- > however they were seriousy questioning the device's data reliability. Anyway > I've never actually seen a commercial model. From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Feb 15 17:07:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: NeXTStation Color DSP cable pinout In-Reply-To: References: <13590F0E-412E-11D7-BF49-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E4E6869.24784.3751BCF@localhost> Altho my Next color slab is not functioning at the moment due to a flakey Monopixel monitor, I have always been fascinated by the possibilities of the Next sound system and especially the DSP port, which I equated to the lauded capabilities of the Atari Falcon and it's DSP port, aimed at the professional musician market. The Atari ST was regarded by most professional musicians, as the best music computer, partly because of it's built-in MIDI Ports, and I tended to view some of Job's Next dreams as trying to transcend the Macs media limitations and blow it away. The Next DSP port seems to be the least documented feature of the Next. What exactly is a Quix Daydream and what can it do ? Do you know of other DSP peripherals that would work with the Next? The Next promos made much of it's sound capabilities. Lawrence On 15 Feb 2003, , r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > > > I recently accquired a NeXTStation Color, complete with > > color monitor and DSP box. Unfortunately, I don't have the > > cable to go from the NeXTStation to the DSP box, and > > therefore, I can't use the computer because the keyboard > > also connects to the DSP box. > > What you have is the sound box, and it doesn't connect to > the DSP port. > > > from searching the internet, I have found things such as > > this > > http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/nextcolor/monitor_ca > > ble.jpg that show a three headed cable that would connect > > the monitor to the computer, and to the back of the sound > > box. > > That's the cable you need. > > > But then what would the DSP port be used for? > > Whatever you like. I have a Quix Daydream plugged into my > mono NeXTstation. > > > And how would the computer get the signals from the > > keyboard? I'm new to NeXT hardware, so any help would be > > greatly appreciated. Thanks! > > Through the 19-pin end of the cable, that plugs into the > monitor port on the back of the NeXT. > > The original NeXT design specified the "soundbox" built into > the monitor. All mono monitors for NeXT have it. The system > provided keyboard and mouse signals, audio signals, video > signals, and power for the monitor on that one cable, and it > was split up inside the monitor. > > When NeXT introduced systems capable of color graphics, they > pulled that circuitry out of the monitor and put it in a > separate box. > > You need the three-way cable. Some soundboxes had ADB (yes, > like on a Mac) instead of the traditional NeXT > keyboard/mouse interface. > > ok > r. lgwalker@ mts.net From ggs at shiresoft.com Sat Feb 15 17:12:00 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <20030213154230.17603.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030213154230.17603.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1045350450.2075.164.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Thu, 2003-02-13 at 07:42, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > BTW, somebody asked for pictures a while ago. Please visit > > http://andreas.freiherr.bei.t-online.de/pdp-11/index.htm and have fun! > > A correction for your page (nice pic, BTW)... the 11/10 and 11/05 were > the *second* PDP-11 CPU - the first was the 11/20 (and 11/15?). I thought the 11/45 was the second PDP-11 (and the first microcoded one). The 11/20 was the first and the *very* early ones just said PDP-11. When the 11/45 was introduced, it was re-named the 11/20. The 11/15 is an OEM version of the 11/20. Just like the 11/05 is the OEM version of the 11/10. > > I have both an 11/05 (working) and 11/20 (still in pieces). The 11/05 is > much more compact and integrated compared to the 11/20 (which has several > backplanes for the CPU and memory). > I'm note sure which CPU has more cards, the 11/20 or the 11/45. :-) The 11/20 has *alot* of flip chips. That's what you get when you just use SSI TTL. The 11/45 atleast used MSI. -- TTFN - Guy From jwillis at arielusa.com Sat Feb 15 17:22:01 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB781@deathstar.arielnet.com> The system came with no hard drives, no media, and the 4mm tape and CD-ROM were disconnected from the SCSI chain. I was able to get the thing put back together, and I finally got a copy of HP-UX 11.0, but when I try to boot off the CD (boot 52.2.0.0), it says "Bad LIF magic." I'm told this means the media is not bootable. So my question is... how does one install HP-UX if the CD is not bootable? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Brown Sent: Fri 2/14/2003 9:56 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems What's your question (I support several of these boxes..an 827, a G40 and an H70). -Bob >Anyone out there have experience with HP 9000 "Nova" class systems? >Specifically the 9000/800 I40 especially, but any in the class. > >John bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 15 17:57:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Apple IIe / Ddial update In-Reply-To: <002901c2d324$680a63f0$0201a8c0@netadelxp> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Rick Collette wrote: > Has anyone got a later version of Diversi-Dial? I'd even pay cash for it :) > Not too much though, my wife is already irked at the Apple "monstrosity" > that "seems to have grown by itself" I just might have later versions on some of those comm. program disks I showed you. I'll have to look through them when I get a free second. Do you still have a list of DiversiDial systems and their phone numbers? It might be possible to call those numbers and get someone's mom or dad whose son (or daughter?) used to run a DiversiDial in their teenage days. Might be worth a shot... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 15 18:01:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: PDP-8 front panel switches needed Message-ID: Does anyone know of a source for (or have) enough PDP-8 (the original "straight") front panel switches to fill in a front panel? I am working on a replica of the PDP-8 (non-functional) for a museum exhibit, and need to find either a source for switches or some that look close enough. If you have some you wouldn't mind parting with, please contact me with your asking price. If you know of a source, please pass it on. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 15 18:06:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: FA: Dec Dgital PDP8/a Vintage 1976 Era PDP8 / A on eBay In-Reply-To: <0ad801c2d49d$17291ec0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <20030216000330.23921.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Stuart Johnson wrote: > I know that some of the folks on the list (including myself) enjoy old > DEC equipmen True. > The opening price is $250 US. I had not seen a picture of a PDP-8 /A > before. That one is nicely loaded. If I didn't have one just like it, I might be tempted. Notable features include the KT8A MMU (not really useful under OS/8, but if you want to play with RTS-8 it's kinda nice), the RL8A, and most of all, the push-button front-panel. About the only "standard" things it's missing are a 128KW MOS board (instead of the two 32K boards), an RX8E, possibly a 4-port SLU board (KL8A? KL8EJ?) and perhaps a parallel printer board (there were several for either the LA180 or one of the daisy-wheel printers that were common when the -8/a was sold as a WPS-8 machine). I have an RL01 disk or two with OS/8 on it, but my -8/a has a broken KM8A - when it's installed, the bus is locked up and I don't get normal response from the front panel. When I remove the KM8A, I can talk to the CPU and toggle in little programs (in the lowest 4K). One of these days, I need to sit down and debug that KM8A. If I had a working KK8E, I could pull the KK8A/KM8A out. That's a different kettle of fish (but at least I finally was able to dismantle and repair my sticky circuit breaker) Given a disk, that -8/a could make someone very happy. It has everything else you'd need (except cables, probably ;-) -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 15 18:11:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <1045350450.2075.164.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <20030216000850.24566.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Thu, 2003-02-13 at 07:42, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > > BTW, somebody asked for pictures a while ago. Please visit > > > http://andreas.freiherr.bei.t-online.de/pdp-11/index.htm and have > fun! > > > > A correction for your page (nice pic, BTW)... the 11/10 and 11/05 were > > the *second* PDP-11 CPU - the first was the 11/20 (and 11/15?). > > I thought the 11/45 was the second PDP-11... The 11/20 was the first > and the *very* early ones just said PDP-11. I _think_ mine says 11/20. > When the 11/45 was introduced, it was re-named the 11/20. OK. > The 11/15 is an OEM version of the 11/20. That's what I thought. > Just like the 11/05 is the OEM version of the 11/10. I remembered the OEM part. I was thinking the 11/10 came out right after the 11/20. Perhaps you are right. That was a little before my time. My first exposure to -11s was in 1984. We used an 11/04 to bench-test our products, an 11/24 for the accounting department (with *4* RL02s), an 11/34a for software development (RSTS and RSX-11), and an 11/23 or two for other purposes lost to time. That was *many* years after the 11/20 came out. -ethan From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Feb 15 18:58:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: vi for the C64 Message-ID: <200302160106.RAA10668@stockholm.ptloma.edu> I've made good on one of my long-standing threats and created a small implementation of the vi editor for the C64. svicc features an extended subset of nex/nvi commands and is designed to integrate well with Commodore BASIC. It supports many basic motion, editing and positioning commands and includes a number of Commodore-specific features, including a built-in disk wedge. Almost all 38K of the BASIC text space is available for documents. The web page also details how to use svicc to build self-displaying documents. Basic documentation is built-in to svicc, and the web page has a complete reference intended for current vi addicts. svicc is freeware. Have fun. Comments appreciated, including its performance with accelerator cartridges and the SuperCPU. http://www.floodgap.com/retrotech/cbm/svicc/ -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I do not know myself, and God forbid that I should. -- J. W. von Goethe ---- From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Feb 15 19:09:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Probably doesn';t fall under the 20 year rule... Cubix 1010 References: <000001c2d437$f1e6f4d0$6401a8c0@fred> Message-ID: <003101c2d557$f2640f30$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred deBros" To: Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 9:47 AM Subject: RE: Probably doesn';t fall under the 20 year rule... Cubix 1010 > Perfect for a cluster! Bus built-in! Errr... Not really. The Cubix machines I looked at are basically 16-slot (IIRC) passive-backplane, with the ability to divide the backplane into as many as eight seperate segments with one slot used for the SBC and one additional card, or any other way that adds up to 16 slots. But, the SBCs have ethernet built-in, a small switch would drop down in back of the units inside the 1010 and nobody'd be the wiser... I saw someone selling several *rack-fulls* of Cubix machines as one lot several years ago on epay, the guy wanted to experimant with clusters but never found a Round Tuit and decided to move on. I think they're awfully kewl, even the older '486 based machines, but I've got enough projects that I don't need a cross-country trek to get another'n. > > fred Bob From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Feb 15 19:23:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Looking for 29F256 or 29F512 DIP parts In-Reply-To: <003101c2d557$f2640f30$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <001001c2d559$ac085cb0$020010ac@k4jcw> I'm on a hunt to find some 29F256 or 29F512 DIP FLASH parts. Anyone have 5 or 6 pieces they want to sell/trade/give? --John From robinm at rpi.edu Sat Feb 15 21:24:00 2003 From: robinm at rpi.edu (Michael Robinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: new find pdp-11/05 Message-ID: Hello, Thanks to those pointing out about the various sorts of pdp-11/05 backplanes, and pointing me to the engineering drawing repositories. I had forgotten where that was, though I knew of its existence. I'll keep everyone updated as to our progress in getting this machine alive again. Michael Robinson RPI Electronics Club Vaxherd/PDP-11 Fixer robinm@rpi.edu From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 15 23:58:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: vi for the C64 In-Reply-To: <200302160106.RAA10668@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > I've made good on one of my long-standing threats and created a small > implementation of the vi editor for the C64. Cameron, once again I decree that you are Completely Awesome!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Feb 16 00:41:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: vi for the C64 In-Reply-To: <200302160106.RAA10668@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200302160106.RAA10668@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20030216070446.GB1942@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Cameron Kaiser, from writings of Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 05:06:21PM -0800: > I've made good on one of my long-standing threats and created a small > implementation of the vi editor for the C64. Well done; nice hack! ...ermmm ...even if it's not Emacs. ;-) Let us know when you've implemented Emacs running a program to emulate vi, and then I'll be all the more impressed. Having said that, I shall say nothing about vi's inferiority to Emacs, as I don't want to get that old Emacs vs. vi religious war going again (recalling the vast quantity of messages in the a.f.c newsgroup during such wars in the past). Of course, if you modify vi to not only run on a C64, but to emulate Emacs while running on a C64, with Emacs running a program to emulate vi, then I shall be truly impressed and begin using my old C64 more often. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Feb 16 01:10:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: dongle ! In-Reply-To: <000701c2d52a$b5c933c0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, [iso-8859-1] Joël Weber wrote: > give you me yhe money ! I'm going to assume that means "give me the money". Not bloody likely. Earn it like the rest of us. :) g. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gene Buckle" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 7:34 PM > Subject: Re: dongle ! > > > > You could always go out and *buy* the software. > > > > g. > > > > > > On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, [iso-8859-1] Joël Weber wrote: > > > > > i know that ! can you say me where i can find some one, or a dongle > crack? > > > thanks From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Feb 16 01:13:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: dongle ! In-Reply-To: <000801c2d535$cfc878c0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> Message-ID: > hello, i'm sorry ! > that what i hd would say is: > some one hd me give the ORIGINAL software, but in this, the dongle wasn't ! > so, my question, was : > can some one frou you, say me where i can BUY a dongle, for the AVID XPRESS > DV ? > all my programs, are ORIGINALS ! i haven't a pirate copy! > Have you bothered to contact Avid? They'd be happy to sell you one. g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Feb 16 01:17:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: PDP-8 front panel switches needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Does anyone know of a source for (or have) enough PDP-8 (the original > "straight") front panel switches to fill in a front panel? I am working > on a replica of the PDP-8 (non-functional) for a museum exhibit, and need > to find either a source for switches or some that look close enough. > > If you have some you wouldn't mind parting with, please contact me with > your asking price. If you know of a source, please pass it on. > You might also want to contact Jason Scott over at textfiles.com (jason@textfiles.com). If anyone knows where to get a copy, he will. g. From dthdunn at earthlink.net Sun Feb 16 07:41:00 2003 From: dthdunn at earthlink.net (Dave Dunn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: Our small business caters to the classic computer community, although after exchanging notes with a number of you folks over the last few weeks I can see our disk drive and tape drive emulators are beyond the budget that many of you have. Arraid equipment generally runs from $3,500 to $14,500. However, besides letting you know that there are still a few emulation companies left in the world, perhaps we can help out some of you. Arraid -- a small American business, made up mainly of engineers -- spends what little extra money we have looking for labs that need our equipment. Our target client has classic (we use the word legacy) computers doing some sort of critical function. These computers have failing peripherals and Arraid can solve that issue without software changes. If you know of labs, people, or businesses in the classic community that could benefit from our emulated peripherals, we pay a 5% finder's fee, each time a lead results in a sale. That money can go to fund your classic computer activities. Thanks for your time... Dave Dunn ARRAID - Legacy Peripheral Solutions dthdunn@earthlink.net http://www.arraid.com From dthdunn at earthlink.net Sun Feb 16 07:44:00 2003 From: dthdunn at earthlink.net (Dave Dunn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals Message-ID: Our small business caters to the classic computer community, although after exchanging notes with a number of you folks over the last few weeks I can see our disk drive and tape drive emulators are beyond the budget that many of you have. Arraid equipment generally runs from $3,500 to $14,500. However, besides letting you know that there are still a few emulation companies left in the world, perhaps we can help out some of you. Arraid -- a small American business, made up mainly of engineers -- spends what little extra money we have looking for labs that need our equipment. Our target client has classic (we use the word legacy) computers doing some sort of critical function. These computers have failing peripherals and Arraid can solve that issue without software changes. If you know of labs, people, or businesses in the classic community that could benefit from our emulated peripherals, we pay a 5% finder's fee, each time a lead results in a sale. That money can go to fund your classic computer activities. Thanks for your time... Dave Dunn ARRAID - Legacy Peripheral Solutions dthdunn@earthlink.net http://www.arraid.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Feb 16 08:32:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E4F4CAC.18891.6CC7F5C@localhost> On 16 Feb 2003, , Dave Dunn wrote: > Our small business caters to the classic computer community, > although after exchanging notes with a number of you folks > over the last few weeks I can see our disk drive and tape > drive emulators are beyond the budget that many of you have. > Arraid equipment generally runs from $3,500 to $14,500. > However, besides letting you know that there are still a few > emulation companies left in the world, perhaps we can help > out some of you. > > Arraid -- a small American business, made up mainly of > engineers -- spends what little extra money we have looking > for labs that need our equipment. Our target client has > classic (we use the word legacy) computers doing some sort > of critical function. These computers have failing > peripherals and Arraid can solve that issue without software > changes. If you know of labs, people, or businesses in the > classic community that could benefit from our emulated > peripherals, we pay a 5% finder's fee, each time a lead > results in a sale. That money can go to fund your classic > computer activities. > > Thanks for your time... > > Dave Dunn > ARRAID - Legacy Peripheral Solutions > dthdunn@earthlink.net > http://www.arraid.com Well thanks Dave. That's right generous of you. Of course we wouldn't have too much use for you especially at those prices. For the most part we have the original peripherals and don't have need for emulators. On the other hand should you have a customer with needs that you and your team of engineers don't have an emulator for, I'm sure that someone on the list will have the needed equipment and who would be happy to help them at your rate, and of course remit a 5% finders fee and another 5% administration fee to you and your team of engineers. A lot of the larger companies do refer to their older equipment as "legacy" but most of us simply refer to it as "vintage" as in good old wines. Be sure to keep us in mind if you run across anything that you and your team of engineers can't handle. Lawrence Walker Vintage computer collector lgwalker@ mts.net From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Feb 16 09:32:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Mac Printers (Cambridge, UK) Message-ID: <20030216152948.83003.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> OK, I haven't decided what I'm doing yet with the various Apple machines I got the other week, but I know the printers are just getting in the way, so if anyone wants the following just give me a shout: Apple Stylewriter II + manual Apple Colour Stylewriter 2500 - no PSU, needs 13.5V HP Deskwriter 660C + PSU + driver disks (ok this one doesn't hit the ten year mark :) I had the same printer for the PC which failed a while back, and I kept the centronics interface board from it so you're welcome to that too. I may also have the manuals for the PC version still, which might be useful. I've only got the one data cable, currently plugged into the colour stylewriter; I expect it works with all three printers though. I have no idea what of the above works - all the systems that came in the same haul worked fine though so I expect they were just dumped as surplus. Free for collection from Cambridge, UK. cheers Jules Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Feb 16 10:15:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: vi for the C64 In-Reply-To: <20030216070446.GB1942@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at "Feb 16, 3 02:04:47 am" Message-ID: <200302161623.IAA27394@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I've made good on one of my long-standing threats and created a small > > implementation of the vi editor for the C64. > > Well done; nice hack! ...ermmm ...even if it's not Emacs. ;-) Ewwwwwwwwww! ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "Eight tries. The number is ... seven." ------------------------------------ From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Feb 16 11:19:01 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: NeXTStation Color monitor cable pinout needed Message-ID: <630771B1-41D2-11D7-B55E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Thanks to your help, I now know what I need - I need the three headed cable with two 13W3 connectors and one DB-19. ( this thing - http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/nextcolor/monitor_cable.jpg ) I have scoured the internet looking for the pinout of this cable, but to no avail. I did find some information about the monochrome slabs, but it doesn't help me very much. There doesn't seem to be much out there about the color NeXTStations at all. Anyway, if anyone has the pinout of that monitor cable, it would be much appreciated. It shouldn't be too hard to add the extra connector to the old Sun monitor cable I already have. All the pins on the Sun cable do go straight through, and there are wires for all of them, I checked with a multimeter. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Feb 16 13:36:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: PDP-8 front panel switches needed Message-ID: <20030216193406.57486.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> > Does anyone know of a source for (or have) enough PDP-8 (the original > "straight") front panel switches to fill in a front panel? I am working > on a replica of the PDP-8 (non-functional) for a museum exhibit, and need > to find either a source for switches or some that look close enough. In the interests of keeping viable machines still functioning, and given that this is for a non-functional museum display, it might be worth looking into actually making something - painted wood, vacuum-formed plastic, whatever. Just a thought. I'm not a DEC person (don't have the space!) and these switches might be common as muck for all I know. But I'd hate to think parts were being used on a static display that could be used to keep hardware running elsewhere... cheers Jules Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From acme at ao.net Sun Feb 16 13:53:01 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: vaxstation 3000? Message-ID: <200302161951.OAA16228@eola.ao.net> Okay, I'll bite. Questions (from a non-DEC mperson): Where is it? Where can I find information about the VS3000? Google pointed me to tons of sites regarding the 3100, 2000, 4000, etc., but nothing specific to the 3000. Why? Is the 3000 a dog? To the classiccmp DEC-heads: is the 3000 a good starting point for someone who's curious about VAXen? If not, why not, and what would be a better place to begin? TIA -- Glen Goodwin Orlando, FL USA > Anybody have any interest in a VaxStation 3000? > Looks clean, no monitor or kbd. From franco.tassone at inwind.it Sun Feb 16 13:58:00 2003 From: franco.tassone at inwind.it (Franco Tassone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: ULTRIX ris install References: <20030216180001.95751.92932.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <002d01c2d5f5$81517be0$bdd5623e@tassone> Few days ago gome guys (including me) were wondering how could it be possible to do an Ultrix installation via RIS support. I was able to fulfill this task right now, if someone is interested I can help in this odd work. From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Feb 16 14:38:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: dongle ! References: <000801c2d535$cfc878c0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> Message-ID: <3E4FF734.6090401@tiac.net> Call AVID. Was that so hard to think of? Jo?l Weber wrote: >hello, i'm sorry ! >that what i hd would say is: >some one hd me give the ORIGINAL software, but in this, the dongle wasn't ! >so, my question, was : >can some one frou you, say me where i can BUY a dongle, for the AVID XPRESS >DV ? >all my programs, are ORIGINALS ! i haven't a pirate copy! > >joel From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Feb 16 14:41:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Looking for 29F256 or 29F512 DIP parts References: <001001c2d559$ac085cb0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3E4FF7C2.404@tiac.net> I have plenty of both, any preference? J.C.Wren wrote: >I'm on a hunt to find some 29F256 or 29F512 DIP FLASH parts. Anyone have 5 >or 6 pieces they want to sell/trade/give? > > --John From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Feb 16 15:25:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals References: Message-ID: <002f01c2d601$9a5c8060$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> UGGGGG!!!!! Ok, what moderator let that obvious advertisement through??? I know it wasn't me. Sorry folks, I'll try to ensure that doesn't happen again. Jay West List Admin From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Feb 16 15:29:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Fw: Emulated Peripherals Message-ID: <003701c2d601$a779bd80$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Emulated Peripherals > UGGGGG!!!!! > > Ok, what moderator let that obvious advertisement through??? I know it > wasn't me. > > Sorry folks, I'll try to ensure that doesn't happen again. > > Jay West > List Admin From brian at quarterbyte.com Sun Feb 16 15:50:01 2003 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals Message-ID: <3E4F9669.20701.5CDA31CC@localhost> I was sort of shocked to see snide remarks directed at the guy who posted a (well, blatantly commercial -- but let's pass that by for now) message about his company's legacy emulation products. First, most people who are still using classic/legacy hardware in their business aren't doing it because they think it's fun, or cool -- they're trapped, and a bit foolish. Given the expense, limited support, and general unreliability of the stuff, it's hard enough to justify using even the CPUs for mission critical operations, but absolutely senseless to keep using classic storage devices when they can be using modern, available, interchangeable, reliable replacements. Their goals are different than ours. Our is to play with the stuff for the enjoymment of it, to preserve it, to teach people about it. Most businesses have no -- um, business -- letting these motives dominate their need for security and stability. Second, it's pretty damned presumptuous to assume that these folks have any less appreciation for the old technology than we do. They're keeping this stuff going, keeping it at work, and getting paid a fair price for it. Bully for them. Third, does it make sense to offend the people who are first in line to help find new homes for classic gear when it eventually gets completely decommissioned? Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel _| _| _| Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 _| _| _| Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From classiccmp at crash.com Sun Feb 16 15:51:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Getting Started with VAXen (was Re: vaxstation 3000) Message-ID: <200302162147.h1GLlMg18485@io.crash.com> > To the classiccmp DEC-heads: is the 3000 a good starting point > for someone who's curious about VAXen? If not, why not, and > what would be a better place to begin? If you want to get started with VAXen, any flavor of VAXstation 3100 would be a great place to start. A basic VS3100 (aka model 30) would be an adequate, very cheap way to start. They'll do everything you'd need to begin learning about the VAX and VMS, Ultrix, or *BSD. These early models are limited in terms of expansion and speed by current standards, however, and if you have the money or opportunity you might want to look for something faster like a VS3100 m76, or any VS4000. To learn more about the different VAX models, I'd take a look at the NetBSD/VAX page http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/vax and look into the different model descriptions. To get licenses and media for running VMS, go to the DECUS/Encompass OpenVMS Hobbyist Pages at http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/index.html You'll have to join Encompass, but that's free. And you'll need the serial number from your VAX/Alpha. If you check the archives for this mailing list, or hit Google Groups archives for comp.sys.dec and comp.os.vms, you'll find all kinds of info and links to web sites. Good luck, and have fun! --Steve. From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 16 16:30:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: <3E4F9669.20701.5CDA31CC@localhost> References: <3E4F9669.20701.5CDA31CC@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Brian Knittel wrote: > I was sort of shocked to see snide remarks directed at the guy > who posted a (well, blatantly commercial -- but let's pass that > by for now) message about his company's legacy emulation > products. > I completely second this. The original post was respectful, the poster knew that he was asking the List, and, speaking as someone who has patronized commercial firms for needed parts to keep my own collection going, I see nothing whatsoever wrong with someone who is deriving a living from servicing and preserving legacy hardware posting a nice message here. I too thought some of the replies were a bit 'huffy'... If Mentec posted here, would y'all jump down their throats? Howabout RELCOM, who list stuff here frequently? They have a nice supply of Unibus, Qbus, and other DEC peripherals at very reasonable prices, which few here would know of, unless they mentioned it. NOt all 'commercials' are spam, IMHO. I hope they don't form the wrong opinion. Just my 200 millidollar. Cheerz John From dittman at dittman.net Sun Feb 16 16:33:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: <3E4F9669.20701.5CDA31CC@localhost> from "Brian Knittel" at Feb 16, 2003 01:47:21 PM Message-ID: <200302162230.h1GMUcu6003449@narnia.int.dittman.net> > First, most people who are still using classic/legacy hardware in > their business aren't doing it because they think it's fun, or > cool -- they're trapped, and a bit foolish. Given the expense, > limited support, and general unreliability of the stuff, it's > hard enough to justify using even the CPUs for mission critical > operations... This is an odd statement to make. I know of a lot of VAX and PDP-11 systems that are still in use. They still do the job, don't have any problems, and are still maintainable. There's absolutely nothing foolish about still using something that still works and still does the job. They aren't trapped, either, as there are upgrade paths to newer systems, but spending money on upgrades just because they are available is a Wintel thing, and is foolish. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From marvin at rain.org Sun Feb 16 16:34:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals References: <002f01c2d601$9a5c8060$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3E501165.8EB931D6@rain.org> I don't have a problem with his message. Jay West wrote: > > UGGGGG!!!!! > > Ok, what moderator let that obvious advertisement through??? I know it > wasn't me. > > Sorry folks, I'll try to ensure that doesn't happen again. > > Jay West > List Admin From chd_1 at nktelco.net Sun Feb 16 16:38:00 2003 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: Berg Connectors Message-ID: <3E501257.6090209@nktelco.net> Is there a replacement for the Berg connectors? I am talking about the 100mil spacing, dual inline connectors that had individually insertable, crimp contacts. The AMP MT connectors look like a replacement. Does anybody have experience with this? I am working on an DEC RX01/RX02 emulator for my pdp-8/e and want to run a cable about 20ft. I was thinking about using 4 runs of cat5 twisted cable and the individually contacts would be quite convenient. -chuck From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Feb 16 16:54:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: vaxstation 3000? In-Reply-To: <200302161951.OAA16228@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 acme@ao.net wrote: > Okay, I'll bite. > > Questions (from a non-DEC mperson): > > Where is it? > Where can I find information about the VS3000? Google pointed me to tons of > sites regarding the 3100, 2000, 4000, etc., but nothing specific to the 3000. > Why? Is the 3000 a dog? No, I just don't think there is such a beast There is a "DEC 3000" but that is an Alpha > > To the classiccmp DEC-heads: is the 3000 a good starting point for someone who's > curious about VAXen? If not, why not, and what would be a better place to > begin? > > TIA -- > > Glen Goodwin > Orlando, FL USA > > > Anybody have any interest in a VaxStation 3000? > > Looks clean, no monitor or kbd. > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 16 16:58:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:53 2005 Subject: PDP-8 front panel switches needed In-Reply-To: <20030216193406.57486.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Jules Richardson wrote: > In the interests of keeping viable machines still functioning, and given > that this is for a non-functional museum display, it might be worth > looking into actually making something - painted wood, vacuum-formed > plastic, whatever. I agree, and am considering that, but the amount of work involved may not be justified compared with the cost. And since there are probably more PDP-8 switches floating around then PDP-8 computers themselves, I don't see this as a problem. If I can't come up with a source then I'll resort to manufacturing my own, but I'd rather have the originals. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 16 17:03:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: <3E4F9669.20701.5CDA31CC@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Brian Knittel wrote: > I was sort of shocked to see snide remarks directed at the guy > who posted a (well, blatantly commercial -- but let's pass that > by for now) message about his company's legacy emulation > products. Commercial ads get posted from time to time that are totally objectionable (like the occasional spam) but David's message was at least on-topic, and his company may well come in handy for someone in the future. I've spoken to him and what they do is very interesting: it's a commercial version of what Bob Shannon did to interface an IDE drive to his HP 2116. > Third, does it make sense to offend the people who are first in > line to help find new homes for classic gear when it eventually > gets completely decommissioned? Indeed. They are, after all, keeping old machines alive and in operation, doing useful work. That's something that most people on this list cannot claim :/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Feb 16 17:03:29 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals References: <200302162230.h1GMUcu6003449@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3E501817.4020208@eoni.com> I also had no problem with his message. Respectfully made us aware of his company's services. Ditto on the below comment. It seems to me that it was just last year that Jet Propulsion Laboratory was scouring epay for pdp parts to keep their space probes' data reduction gear running. IIRC there are quite a few old DEC systems performing "mission critical" applications. Seriously "mission critical." Jim Eric Dittman wrote: > I know of a lot of VAX and > PDP-11 systems that are still in use. They still do the job, > don't have any problems, and are still maintainable. There's > absolutely nothing foolish about still using something that > still works and still does the job. They aren't trapped, either, > as there are upgrade paths to newer systems, but spending money > on upgrades just because they are available is a Wintel thing, > and is foolish. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Feb 16 17:47:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Recent Activities (11/34) Message-ID: <8831525010.20030216174503@subatomix.com> This weekend I decided to start the process of building and making work my PDP-11/34 (upgraded to 34a). Most of my CC activity will have to occur on the weekends, because my job is quickly ballooning to nearly fill up each day. Not that I mind; my job is fun. Now before you can get that "I told you so" off your lips, I will have you know that I *still* have more time than when in college for playing with my toys. Weekends are better than nothing. The first thing was to get access to the machine. Ouch, but success. Next, I made an inventory list of all the cards in the machine. I'll paste it at the bottom of this mail. Next, I downloaded and started reading some manuals, including 11/34 UG, BA11-K UG, BA11-K FMPS. There are a lot of pages there, and I want to read them before doing too much more, so I'll print them out and take them to work for some lunchtime entertainment. Another thing I decided was that I needed to mount this thing in a rack before I do too much more with it. Mainly, I need to get to the underside easily. I tried to harvest some rails from the rusty 11/70 carcass in the garage. After some work, I was able to get the BA11-K in the carcass to slide out, but it was too stuck to get off of its rails. I couldn't tilt it up, either, because one of the releases wouldn't budge. I decided to take the entire thing off, rails and all, and remove the rails later. I also decided to get a friend to help, just in case. Unfortunately, my friend is sick this weekend, so I couldn't do much more. I did fire up the compressor and blow air into the machine and into the LA120 I have nearby. I think I'll play with the LA120 a little and see what condition it is in. Next weekend, I hope to get the 11/34 mounted in the H960 rack, read the manuals, and document jumper settings on the various boards. PDP-11/34a CARD LIST ==================== AAAAAAAAAAA BBBBBBBBBBB CCCCCCCCCCC DDDDDDDDDDD EEEEEEEEEEE FFFFFFFFFFF 09 M9202------------------ G727A------ == ||||||||||||||||||||||| 11 ----------------------- G727A------ 12 M7850------------------ G727A------ 17 G727A------ == ||||||||||||||||||||||| M8265 KD11-EA data paths module (replaces M7265) (11/34A) M8266 KD11-EA control module (replaces M7266) (11/34A) M7254 RK11-D RK05 status control module M7255 RK11-D RK05 disk control module M7256 RK11-D RK05 registers module M7257 RK11-D RK05 bus control module M7819 DZ11-A 8-line async EIA mux, 50-96K, modem control M7847-CD MS11-FP 8-Kword 18-bit MOS RAM M7847-xJ (7) MS11-JP 16-Kword 18-bit MOS RAM M7850 (2) MM11-CP parity board for G651, MS11-EP/FP/HP/JP M7856 (2) DL11-W RS-232 SLU & realtime clock option M7859 KY11-LB console interface; programmer's console (11/34a) G727A (4) Grant continuity card M920 UNIBUS connector M9202 UNIBUS connector, longer with 2' cable M9302 UNIBUS terminator, far end (SU) M9312 UNIBUS terminator, near end w/ 5 bootstrap ROM sockets -- Jeffrey Sharp From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Feb 16 18:23:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: <002f01c2d601$9a5c8060$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from Jay West at "Feb 16, 3 03:23:07 pm" Message-ID: <200302170031.QAA10388@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Ok, what moderator let that obvious advertisement through??? I know it > wasn't me. But it was on topic, at least. It didn't seem like the usual scattershot spam crap sent-every-which-way-and-here. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If you're not very clever, you should be conciliatory. -- Benjamin Disraeli From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 16 18:32:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: <002f01c2d601$9a5c8060$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Feb 16, 3 03:23:07 pm Message-ID: > UGGGGG!!!!! > > Ok, what moderator let that obvious advertisement through??? I know it > wasn't me. I really don't see a problem with this message. OK, it was a commercial advert, but AFAIK neither adverts or non-hobby messages are banned here. It was _one_ message, plain text, and wasn't exceessively long (and since it was only one message, it's not been posted too often). It was _certainly_ on-topic. It does relate to classic computers. OK, many of us like to run old peripherals too, but not always. I seem to remember a message a couple of weeks back about a 'great hardware hack' interfacing a modern hard disk to an HP mini. Why was that on-topic and the commercial equivalent not? > Sorry folks, I'll try to ensure that doesn't happen again. Please don't. Yes, please remove off-topic SPAM, but adverts related to classic computers, commercial or not, should be allowed here provided the same advert doesn't start appearing too often. -tony From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 16 18:57:00 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: NeXTStation Color monitor cable pinout needed In-Reply-To: <630771B1-41D2-11D7-B55E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <630771B1-41D2-11D7-B55E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1045443261.2490.0.camel@supermicro> I have the cable you need. If you're interested you can have it for the cost of shipping. Let me know off-list. Jeff On Sun, 2003-02-16 at 12:16, Ian Primus wrote: > Thanks to your help, I now know what I need - I need the three headed > cable with two 13W3 connectors and one DB-19. ( this thing - > http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/nextcolor/monitor_cable.jpg ) I > have scoured the internet looking for the pinout of this cable, but to > no avail. I did find some information about the monochrome slabs, but > it doesn't help me very much. There doesn't seem to be much out there > about the color NeXTStations at all. Anyway, if anyone has the pinout > of that monitor cable, it would be much appreciated. It shouldn't be > too hard to add the extra connector to the old Sun monitor cable I > already have. All the pins on the Sun cable do go straight through, and > there are wires for all of them, I checked with a multimeter. Thanks! > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com From jrice54 at charter.net Sun Feb 16 19:02:01 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: NeXTStation Color monitor cable pinout needed In-Reply-To: <630771B1-41D2-11D7-B55E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <630771B1-41D2-11D7-B55E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E503551.8030407@charter.net> Actually the NeXT monitors (color) only use the three coaxial leads from the slab, the rest terminate on the 19 pin D shell connector that plugs into the soundbox. Splicing the D-shell into the Sun cable is too mucxh trouble. Checking ebay tonight showed me: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3402252343&category=4610 This is a reasonable price and would make you slab all original as well as not risking damage to your hardware with a bad/wrog connection. Remember, the NeXT monitor port also carries + and -12v at several amps to power the sound box and power for the old monochrome monitor. James Ian Primus wrote: > Thanks to your help, I now know what I need - I need the three headed > cable with two 13W3 connectors and one DB-19. ( this thing - > http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/nextcolor/monitor_cable.jpg ) I > have scoured the internet looking for the pinout of this cable, but to > no avail. I did find some information about the monochrome slabs, but > it doesn't help me very much. There doesn't seem to be much out there > about the color NeXTStations at all. Anyway, if anyone has the pinout > of that monitor cable, it would be much appreciated. It shouldn't be > too hard to add the extra connector to the old Sun monitor cable I > already have. All the pins on the Sun cable do go straight through, > and there are wires for all of them, I checked with a multimeter. Thanks! > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From ssj152 at charter.net Sun Feb 16 19:15:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Recent Activities (11/34) References: <8831525010.20030216174503@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <029901c2d621$b3804cf0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 5:45 PM Subject: Recent Activities (11/34) > This weekend I decided to start the process of building and making work my > PDP-11/34 (upgraded to 34a). Most of my CC activity will have to occur on > the weekends, because my job is quickly ballooning to nearly fill up each > M9312 UNIBUS terminator, near end w/ 5 bootstrap ROM sockets > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > Sounds like a lot of fun! Stuart Johnson From dancohoe at oxford.net Sun Feb 16 19:42:00 2003 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: IBM Displaywriter etc Message-ID: <002d01c2d625$811caf70$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> I ran across a number of Displaywriter cpu's and keyboards on the weekend as well as a bunch of IBM 4972 terminals. I think I may find Series/1 parts in further searching through this interesting site. I didn't know what the floppy drives for the Displaywriters looked like until I checked with Google after coming home. I believe I saw some of them as well. I also picked up some manuals and diagnostic diskettes for the IBM Office System 6. Anybody need them? The actual System 6 is there but has been out in the rain too long to be of much interest unless someone needs something specific (and waterproof) from it. Quite a lot of other stuff as well, which I'll list as, if, and when I get to it. If anyone is interested in any of these things, I'll try to get them put away in safe storage. I'd be willing to hold on to them until Dayton. The owner is very reasonable with his selling prices. regards, Dan Cohoe From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Feb 16 20:14:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals References: Message-ID: <005901c2d629$e5b3bc40$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Please don't. Yes, please remove off-topic SPAM, but adverts related to > classic computers, commercial or not, should be allowed here provided > the same advert doesn't start appearing too often. My initial reaction was actually fairly difficult for me, as I know and like several of the people at Arraid. On the one hand, it's obviously on-topic as it lets others here know that there are modern drive replacements for systems we all would like to keep running. On the other hand, their products are generally well outside the price range of the home hobbyist, so not sure how much it helps us. Thus, my impression is that the post wasn't targeted at the listmembers, but rather at sales prospects the listmembers may know. Tony asked how this post was different than Bob Shannon's post about his drive replacement. Very simple - Bob wasn't posting here asking us to give the names of companies we know and have trusted relationships with, so he could call them and hard sell them his product. I'm NOT saying Bob would hard sell, or even that Arraid would hard sell (doubtful). But what about other companies posting here who may do so? So, if on-topic SPAM is allowed here as Tony requests above... guess we allow posting by crisis, and MBG, and keyways, and imsai.net, oh, and all the scrap dealers... but it's ok as long as it doesn't appear too often. Ok, let me start a spreadsheet, so I can track how often each company posts. I'll have to trace each email address on an advert, so I can tell if they're trying to post from another address. Oh, and I'll also have to call references on each company, so I know if they have a history of hardselling any references we give them... Ummm wait... I do have a day job. All sarcasm aside... If the membership at large wants to allow on-topic adverts, that's fine. But don't make it hard on ME to moderate in the future - for one example out of many - I suspect Tony's definition of "too often" (wrt adverts appearing) is different from Sellams, which is different from Jerome's, etc. Jay From dthdunn at earthlink.net Sun Feb 16 20:48:00 2003 From: dthdunn at earthlink.net (Dave Dunn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: <005901c2d629$e5b3bc40$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <005901c2d629$e5b3bc40$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: First, sorry for the double/double posting. It was not intentional. To calm anyone's concerns, I have no intention of ever posting in your forum again, other than to respond to comments or questions, if that is ever needed. Given that many in the hobbyist community appear to be cash-strapped, I thought my previous posting to be a win/win offer. If you know a business or school or whatever that needs the solutions we offer, there is compensation which you can then use to further your hobbyist activities. I'm not sure how that is bad and do appreciate your members not wanting this information sharing tool to be hijacked by the less sensitive. Finally, many thanks to the half dozen people who have sent me very positive comments off forum. I will respond to each of you off forum. David From n8uhn at yahoo.com Sun Feb 16 21:13:00 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? Message-ID: <20030217031041.20111.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Wow, thats a tough one. i agree with Sellam, it does look like a four phase panel. but - fps did not use a flat rack panel - they used a bezel and the board bolted to it. i wonder if it is fps and perhaps an iv/60,70 or 80 or an early prototype of one of them. if the seller looked at the pcb for a name - that may end our mystery - fps screened "fps","four phase systems inc" or "motorola information systems" or the pcb. motorola information systems bought out fps and made some boards for the fps systems. Bill Message: 40 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:31:54 -0800 (PST) From: Vintage Computer Festival To: Subject: Re: What computer is this front panel for? Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Kevin Schoedel wrote: > > (0) It's got 24 bits, or maybe 18 + 6 if you look closely. > > I think 24, since the numbers don't restart. Bit 0 is at the right, > which might rule out some machines. > > I'm pretty sure the first word at the top is "DISPLAY"; the next > might be "REGISTER", but I'm not certain. I think the word that > labels bits 18-21 might be "INSTRUCTION". Can anyone think of a > machine with a 4-bit opcode and 18-bit address? I think the next > word (first of two labelling 0-17) is the same. Now that I've looked at it more, it almost looks like a Four Phase Systems front panel. It can't remember now, but I believe it was either a 16- or 18-bit machine (18-bits would make sense with regards to these front panels). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From aek at spies.com Sun Feb 16 21:22:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? Message-ID: <200302170322.h1H3MXJW023596@spies.com> i wonder if it is fps and perhaps an iv/60,70 or 80 I have a IV/70 reference manual, and the front panel is quite different. Four Phase also numbered their bits in big-endian order. I'm still guessing they're for Harris H-series. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 16 22:13:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > It was _one_ message, plain text, and wasn't exceessively long (and since > it was only one message, it's not been posted too often). Indeed, it inadvertently caused more messages in reply than it merited ;) > Please don't. Yes, please remove off-topic SPAM, but adverts related to > classic computers, commercial or not, should be allowed here provided > the same advert doesn't start appearing too often. I concur with that sentiment. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 16 22:20:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: <005901c2d629$e5b3bc40$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Jay West wrote: > So, if on-topic SPAM is allowed here as Tony requests above... guess we > allow posting by crisis, and MBG, and keyways, and imsai.net, oh, and all > the scrap dealers... but it's ok as long as it doesn't appear too often. Ok, I have no problem with that. All the companies mentioned deal in businesses that are basically on-topic. Heck, every message I post has an advert for VintageTech. > All sarcasm aside... If the membership at large wants to allow on-topic > adverts, that's fine. But don't make it hard on ME to moderate in the > future - for one example out of many - I suspect Tony's definition of "too > often" (wrt adverts appearing) is different from Sellams, which is different > from Jerome's, etc. I just object to obvious spam as an involuntary reaction. Now that that problem has been cleared up (I still receive the occasional spam to foo@siconic.com but there is nothing to be done about that) there is nothing for me to piss and moan over in that regard. David Dunn's posting was not spam at all. He was just saying, "Hey, if you know a company that is trying to keep a legacy system alive, call us." There's nothing wrong with a little capitalism here and there. Gotta pay the mortgage somehow. BTW, I am taking out of service for the most part. I finally took the time to figure out how to create filters in PINE (it was quite simple). So now all my CC correspondence will be done from (or rather as I still haven't figured out how to configure my mail server properly, but either domain is valid). So anyway, please update your address books as I will only be checking foo occasionally and will delete it entirely in a few weeks. Ok, I'll probably make it an alias to "vcf". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 16 22:24:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? In-Reply-To: <20030217031041.20111.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Bill Allen Jr wrote: > i agree with Sellam, it does look like a four phase > panel. > > but - fps did not use a flat rack panel - they used a > bezel and the board bolted to it. True. > i wonder if it is fps and perhaps an iv/60,70 or 80 or > an early prototype of one of them. I doubt it would be a prototype. It looks to "production". Never heard of an IV/60 or IV/80, only IV/70 and IV/90 (I have the latter). What were the '60 and 80'? > if the seller looked at the pcb for a name - that may > end our mystery - fps screened "fps","four phase > systems inc" or "motorola information systems" > or the pcb. Did anyone e-mail the bloke yet? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Feb 16 22:32:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals References: Message-ID: <200302170430.XAA673805@shell.TheWorld.com> >allow posting by crisis, and MBG, and keyways, and imsai.net, oh, and all ^^^ Excuse me? I don't post ads or spam... Is there another mbg? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Feb 16 22:47:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals References: <200302170430.XAA673805@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <003101c2d63f$49ed5710$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Megan wrote... > Is there another mbg? Sorry... MBC, Monterey Bay Communications. I ALWAYS call them MBG for some brain-frozen reason. They sell vintage HP gear. Jay West From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Sun Feb 16 23:17:01 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Why did they publish 'blank' pages Message-ID: Megan, in a recent post (and probably every other post, but I wasn't looking) has included in her sig line the following text; +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ Can anybody shed some light on the origin and use of the term "This space intenionally left blank"? regards Doug Jackson CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 16 23:20:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: <005901c2d629$e5b3bc40$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Jay West wrote: > > Please don't. Yes, please remove off-topic SPAM, but adverts related to > > classic computers, commercial or not, should be allowed here provided > > the same advert doesn't start appearing too often. > > My initial reaction was actually fairly difficult for me, as I know and like > several of the people at Arraid. > > On the one hand, it's obviously on-topic as it lets others here know that > there are modern drive replacements for systems we all would like to keep > running. On the other hand, their products are generally well outside the > price range of the home hobbyist, so not sure how much it helps us. Thus, my > impression is that the post wasn't targeted at the listmembers, but rather > at sales prospects the listmembers may know. Tony asked how this post was > different than Bob Shannon's post about his drive replacement. Very simple - > Bob wasn't posting here asking us to give the names of companies we know and > have trusted relationships with, so he could call them and hard sell them > his product. I'm NOT saying Bob would hard sell, or even that Arraid would > hard sell (doubtful). But what about other companies posting here who may > do so? > > So, if on-topic SPAM is allowed here as Tony requests above... guess we > allow posting by crisis, and MBG, and keyways, and imsai.net, oh, and all > the scrap dealers... but it's ok as long as it doesn't appear too often. Ok, > let me start a spreadsheet, so I can track how often each company posts. > I'll have to trace each email address on an advert, so I can tell if they're > trying to post from another address. Oh, and I'll also have to call > references on each company, so I know if they have a history of hardselling > any references we give them... Ummm wait... I do have a day job. > > All sarcasm aside... If the membership at large wants to allow on-topic > adverts, that's fine. But don't make it hard on ME to moderate in the > future - for one example out of many - I suspect Tony's definition of "too > often" (wrt adverts appearing) is different from Sellams, which is different > from Jerome's, etc. > > Jay I think that your judgement was sound in this case and worthy of our reliance on it in the future. - don From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 16 23:34:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Why did they publish 'blank' pages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Can anybody shed some light on the origin and use of the term "This space >intenionally left blank"? It's so you know that the page isn't blank as the result of a printing error. The perfect example is one of my Borland Prolog manuals. It has a page that was Unintentionally left blank! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From hansp at aconit.org Mon Feb 17 00:00:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Why did they publish 'blank' pages References: Message-ID: <3E507A07.6040606@aconit.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>Can anybody shed some light on the origin and use of the term "This space >>intenionally left blank"? > > > It's so you know that the page isn't blank as the result of a printing > error. The perfect example is one of my Borland Prolog manuals. It has a > page that was Unintentionally left blank! Indeed, and as I sometimes take pains to point out, the spaces left "INTENTIONALLY BLANK" are not blank at all. My preferred notation which IIRC I first saw in an ICL manual is : "This page intentionally contains no information" or words to that effect. -- hbp From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 17 00:15:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Recent Activities (11/34) In-Reply-To: <8831525010.20030216174503@subatomix.com> References: <8831525010.20030216174503@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <1024772202.20030217001339@subatomix.com> That's wierd. Something somewhere took a couple of chunks out of my backplane diagram. My sent mail folder has the complete text, so the problem is probably somewhere else in the loop besides my MUA. If anyone cares, I'll retry it below. Hopefully the problem will not recur. > AAAAAAAAAAA BBBBBBBBBBB CCCCCCCCCCC DDDDDDDDDDD EEEEEEEEEEE FFFFFFFFFFF > 09 M9202------------------ G727A------ > == ||||||||||||||||||||||| > 11 ----------------------- G727A------ > 12 M7850------------------ G727A------ > 17 G727A------ > == ||||||||||||||||||||||| -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 17 00:56:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: TLC Ideas for LA120 Keyboard? Message-ID: <1957228323.20030217005435@subatomix.com> Well, my DEC LA120 is almost perfectly operational. Its only problem is a set of keys that do not work when pressed. I'd like to fix that. What I see when I remove the keycap is a square plastic housing that slides vertically within a larger square plastic housing. The smaller housing slides down when one presses a key. A spring below the smaller square housing pushes the housing back up when the key is no longer pressed. Up through the smaller housing shoot two electrical contacts. The contacts are fixed and do not slide with the housing. When the key is up, a plastic bar across the middle of the smaller housing holds the two contacts apart. When the key moves down, the bar moves down and no longer holds the contacts apart. The contacts touch and complete a circuit, and the LA120 senses a keystroke. Top view (key not pressed): +-A------------------+ | +-B-----+-+------+ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | D |C| E | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +-------+-+------+ | +--------------------+ Side view (key pressed): | | /\ | | A B / \ | | | | D E | | | | / +--+ \ | | | | / |C | \ | | | | / +--+ \ | | | +----------------+ | | /\/\/\/\F/\/\/\/\/ | +--------------------+ A = Outer (fixed) housing B = Inner (sliding) housing C = Bar that holds contacts apart when not pressed D = Electrical contact E = Electrical contact F = Spring The problem is that the circuit isn't being closed when the key is pressed. If I stick a screwdriver in there, bridge the gap between the contact, and thus close it manually, a keypress is sensed. Actually, it senses several keypresses very quickly, probably because of the noise caused by the conductive screwdriver scraping across the contacts. When I press the housing down, the contacts *appear* to touch, but no keystroke is sensed. So I figure there are either or both of two possible things going on: (1) Tiny space between the contacts (2) Nonconductive material (corrosion? oxidation?) on the contacts Two keys were fixed by using the screwdriver to bend the contacts toward each other in the hopes of creating more force pushing them towards each other. The ENTER key does not seem to be responding well to that treatment. One thing is for sure. All this stuff is so tiny and hard to get to that it is difficult to work on. Any suggestions? -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 17 01:12:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Wanted: KG11-A Manual Message-ID: <18182656.20030217011030@subatomix.com> My PDP-11/20 includes a M7251 KG11-A board, which appears to be a CRC helper option for communications software. I've been able to find some diagnostic code listings for it, but no manuals. Does anyone out there have any manuals for it, either scanned or dead-tree? If I can't download it, then I would like to either buy-for-cheap it or borrow-and-copy it. Thanks! -- Jeffrey Sharp From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Feb 17 01:12:29 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games Message-ID: I downloaded them fine, and they even work on my W2K system. However, they take control of the video, and swing it to CGA/VGA. I need to reboot to restore my video after playing KQ1. Note, however, that the add-on text and music packs also work great. Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of Chad > Fernandez > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 12:11 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > Ed Chapel wrote: > > > >> Remember the early Kings Quest series of adventure games? > >> KQ1 has been remade for VGA graphics by a group called Tierra > >> Entertainment. > >> They are doing a terrific job of rebuilding the games. Same great > >> gameplay. > >> The remade version is a free download and works fine in Windows. > >> > >> KQ1 site: http://www.qknowledge.net/royalquest/KQ1index.htm > >> Tierra main site: http://www.qknowledge.net/royalquest/index.html > >> > >> Ed > >> Vancouver, WA > > I tried downloading it but got errors when clicking on cetain links on > the web site, including the download page. > > Chad Fernandez > Mcihigan, USA [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 17 01:20:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Recent Activities (11/34) In-Reply-To: <8831525010.20030216174503@subatomix.com> References: <8831525010.20030216174503@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <34044.64.169.63.74.1045466297.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jeff wrote: > M9312 UNIBUS terminator, near end w/ 5 bootstrap ROM sockets Note that there are only four bootstrap ROM sockets. The other socket is for either a diagnostic or serial console ROM, which is NOT interchangeable with the boot ROMs. The boot ROMs used with the M9312 are interchangeable with boot ROMs in the PDP-11/44. From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 17 01:24:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <808897103.20030217012224@subatomix.com> On Sunday, February 16, 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > I really don't see a problem with this message. Neither do I, obviously. :-) > Jay West said: > > Sorry folks, I'll try to ensure that doesn't happen again. > > Please don't. Yes, please remove off-topic SPAM I remove about ten OT spams daily. Right now, the Nigerian scam is the most popular. It used to be KLEZ. Of late there have also been a lot of advert spams in Spanish. -- Jeffrey Sharp From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 17 01:25:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Why did they publish 'blank' pages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34048.64.169.63.74.1045466608.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Megan, in a recent post (and probably every other post, but I wasn't > looking) has included in her sig line the following text; > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | > | | | > | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | > | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > Can anybody shed some light on the origin and use of the term "This > space intenionally left blank"? If you were to look up her older postings in the archives (or Usenet postings which you can find in Google), you could probably figure it out. The "DEC '77-'98" toward the bottom is a big hint, compare her pre-98 and post-98 postings. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 17 01:28:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Why did they publish 'blank' pages In-Reply-To: <34048.64.169.63.74.1045466608.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <34048.64.169.63.74.1045466608.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <34049.64.169.63.74.1045466758.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> Can anybody shed some light on the origin and use of the term "This >> space intenionally left blank"? > > If you were to look up her older postings in the archives (or Usenet I didn't read your question carefully enough, I shouldn't reply to the group when I'm tired. D'oh! From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 17 01:29:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: <005901c2d629$e5b3bc40$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <005901c2d629$e5b3bc40$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <149197094.20030217012724@subatomix.com> On Sunday, February 16, 2003, Jay West wrote: > But don't make it hard on ME to moderate in the future When is it easy? :-) There are always gray areas, and the truth of it all is that the result depends on the mood of the moderator. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 17 01:34:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Recent Activities (11/34) In-Reply-To: <1024772202.20030217001339@subatomix.com> References: <8831525010.20030216174503@subatomix.com> <1024772202.20030217001339@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <299473091.20030217013200@subatomix.com> On Monday, February 17, 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > That's wierd. Something somewhere took a couple of chunks out of my > backplane diagram. My sent mail folder has the complete text, so the > problem is probably somewhere else in the loop besides my MUA. If anyone > cares, I'll retry it below. Hopefully the problem will not recur. > >> AAAAAAAAAAA BBBBBBBBBBB CCCCCCCCCCC DDDDDDDDDDD EEEEEEEEEEE FFFFFFFFFFF >> 09 M9202------------------ G727A------ >> == ||||||||||||||||||||||| >> 11 ----------------------- G727A------ >> 12 M7850------------------ G727A------ >> 17 G727A------ >> == ||||||||||||||||||||||| Great. Never mind. :-/ -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 17 01:37:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Recent Activities (11/34) In-Reply-To: <34044.64.169.63.74.1045466297.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <8831525010.20030216174503@subatomix.com> <34044.64.169.63.74.1045466297.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1269694389.20030217013541@subatomix.com> On Monday, February 17, 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Jeff wrote: >> M9312 UNIBUS terminator, near end w/ 5 bootstrap ROM sockets > > Note that there are only four bootstrap ROM sockets. The other socket is > for either a diagnostic or serial console ROM, which is NOT > interchangeable with the boot ROMs. Thanks. I learned something similar from the module list, but I simply forgot when condensing it all into one line. I'll go and change it in my text file, the contents of which cannot be mailed successfully to the list for some reason. -- Jeffrey Sharp From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Feb 17 02:09:10 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 1 Level II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tony wrote: > Good! If you have the disk controller in the system (read : If you have > the Expansion Interface connected), then the machine tries to boot the > disk _before clearing the screen_. If you don't have a disk in the drive, > then you get a screen of garbage. I should've said that because the previous owner showed me the machine gave a garbage screen I didn't bother getting anything other than the machine and monitor out of their boxes - no point testing the rest when the machine won't even power up correctly :) So far I've got the problem down to probably bad address/data lines at the ROMs. I found a link to the Tech Ref for the Model 1 - excellent book, given the writing style it could've been written by me, same sense of humour - and the 'remove and test' method leads me down the bad ROM path - without the ROMs in the machine I get a screenful of @9, which indicates the CPU and video RAM are happy. Next task is to go thru the address lines with a probe; grounding the TEST* line on the CPU makes the ROMs tri-state so I should be able to see any bad lines that are (according to the tech ref) 'floating' instead of 'tri-stating'. Some good bed-time reading to be had there :) > > of the machine I'd take a stab at bad RAM since both my PET > 2001 and UK101s > > had that problem and both were fixed by new video RAM. > > The M1 doesn't use 2114s :-) This I now know.....good job the tests indicate the RAM is happy! I guessed when the RAM turned out to be 16 pin chips instead of the 2114's 18..... (I'll start work on dismantling the MIII's PSU on monday, Tony :)) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From mongomay at worldnet.att.net Mon Feb 17 02:09:52 2003 From: mongomay at worldnet.att.net (James May) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Digital RK06/07 field tester Message-ID: <001601c2d5cc$42410fc0$7aee5b0c@homeytheclown> I cannot find a manual for this unit and was wandering if anyone might have a use for it. WIthout a manual I cannot drive a current use for it myself. It is in great shape. THanks JIm may mongomay@att.net From dzubint at vcn.bc.ca Mon Feb 17 02:10:16 2003 From: dzubint at vcn.bc.ca (Thomas Dzubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: FA: Dec Dgital PDP8/a Vintage 1976 Era PDP8 / A on eBay In-Reply-To: <0ad801c2d49d$17291ec0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: Yeah, I posted a similar note on alt.sys.pdp8 This system is REALLY nice looking, it's in working condition, and it's even in Calgary, Canada which is where I am this week... However, I just brought home a couple of big VAXes yesterday, so I think I'm pushing my luck with my wife so someone else should bid on it. Thomas Dzubin On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > I know that some of the folks on the list (including myself) enjoy old DEC > equipment and when I saw this on eBay I thought that some of the members here > might be interested in it. I'm not affiliated with the seller or this auction > at all. > > Dec Dgital PDP8/a Vintage 1976 Era PDP8 / A , Item #3401953610, URL: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3401953610&category=1247 > The opening price is $250 US. I had not seen a picture of a PDP-8 /A before. > > Good Luck! > Stuart Johnson From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Feb 17 02:10:41 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Intel ISIS-II information and systems Message-ID: <16020347.44805@webbox.com> Hi, I just found this list and wanted to see who else might be interested in ISIS-II. I am in the process of restoring a MDS-220 machine and I have all the old software from my MDS days back in the 70s and 80s (OS, ICE, assmeblers, etc, etc, etc. I also have iPDS software and machines if anyone is interested. I also had disassembled and modified ISIS-II to run on a Northstar Horizon system I had back then. If anyone is interested in running ISIS on a different machine, I will have source code available once I get my MDS up and running. Best regards, Steve Thatcher From tclough at indy.net Mon Feb 17 02:11:05 2003 From: tclough at indy.net (TONY CLOUGH) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: dg computer Message-ID: <4120032016213721810@indy.net> my first computer was a digital group.had a selectable bios so you could use a 6502 or 6800 processor.still have it in the basement somewhere along with a heathkit h89,a swtp 6800, a pdp11-23 running a pair of RL-02's, a vax 11-73, 9 track 1/2 inch tape drives and a winchester.oh yeah i foregot about the apple lisa.Ah the memories, usually defined in k bytes.still have the old teletype, and motorola exercisors and the 12 inch b/w monitor i converted from an old tv.industrial monitors cost as much as a new car then.i remember adding a carrige return lever to my teletype back in the 70's. took all weekend to get all the levers remounted.anyway nice to see there are still enthusiasts around who still remember the roots of the technology.bye  --- TONY CLOUGH--- tclough@indy.net--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.  From tclough at indy.net Mon Feb 17 02:11:29 2003 From: tclough at indy.net (TONY CLOUGH) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: dg computers Message-ID: <4120032016213916550@indy.net> P.S. my DG comp didn't have a power meter.  --- TONY CLOUGH--- tclough@indy.net--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.  From petalumadogman at hotmail.com Mon Feb 17 02:11:53 2003 From: petalumadogman at hotmail.com (David Bakaleinikoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: still have the androbot robot? Message-ID: <000401c2d630$2a57da10$6401a8c0@DesktopSouth> Ran across an old thread reguarding a androbot topo robot.. Is it still around? From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 17 02:36:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030217032705.0515ce20@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hey, Here's one for the Military members, and taxpayers, of the list ... from the "serial killer", "dick", "genital lice" that we are here in Virginia ... The Navy recently needed some Ariel Hydra Plus DSP boards and contacted me about them. They mentioned also searching eBay. Well, I ended up seeing some at ... Ariel Hydra VME single board DSP computer http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=2302043683 I talked to the seller and he thought he had a thousand dollar reserve on them. I told him, no, no reserve, just $500 opening bid. He had made a mistake listing it and ended the auction because of his mistake. I couldn't buy them. My buying budget couldn't cover $1000 boards that I wasn't sure were even going to be the right part ( minor difference in last digit of part number) and I'm not an extraordinarily strong player. But I gave the client the seller's phone number, and seems they may have had possibilities. Response from client ... > Bennett: > Will do. The boards on Ebay do not have the VSB option that we ideally require, however these boards still may > be workable. We are researching to find out what the slightly different part number denotes. We are still > interested in any additional leads you may be able to find. Thanks for your work on this! I still want to follow up and see if this worked out. Wish I could have made a little to cover my bills, but didn't seem doable on this one. But I might have saved you all a lot of money, and might have solved a national need. Can't post client contact info though. Having anyone pestering my clients would be a no no. But, might have built up the karma level. Right now I might see the light at the end of the tunnel on a project for the Saudi government. ( They are our allies ). Also just donated a chassis to Cornell University ... http://wwwapps.ups.com/etracking/tracking.cgi?TypeOfInquiryNumber=T&InquiryNumber=1Z2378230350228079 With chassis, you can't get enough for them to make them worth packaging and shipping. So my terms were the mailing center had to do it. Plus I didn't have suitable materials. Used to wish we could bring some of you with us, but you made it seem better to go it alone. Incidently, with the situation overseas, the US military and many defense contractors are currently re-evaluating their spares levels. Best Regards From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Feb 17 03:15:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: [possibly OT]: 80386 I/O card jumper settings Message-ID: <002f01c2d664$e51aaec0$0100000a@milkyway> Hi all, Well, this is just about covered by the "10-year rule", so here goes: I've been given an old 40MHz 386DX motherboard with a separate I/O card. Ordinarily, this would not be a problem, except the previous owner has disabled the COM (RS232) ports on the card and has lost the jumper settings. Looking at the component side of the board with the mounting bracket to the right, the card has an IDE connector marked "JP1" on the left hand side, a floppy disk connector (JP9) on the top, a Game Port connector (JP10) and an RS232 connector near the bracket. There are four banks of jumpers - one consisting of JP2, JP3 and JP4; another labelled "JP6" (bank of 6 jumpers, three pins); another labelled "JP7" (bank of 6 jumpers, three pins) and finally one labelled JP8, a bank of 8 jumpers with only three jumper caps. The board has a holographic sticker (holographic text is "Polaproof", "Wugo" is printed on the label in blue ink) on the solder side. The controller chip is a Winbond W83757F, complete with a few MC1488/1489 linedrivers, some LS244s and LS245s and an NE556 Dual Timer. Has anyone come across one of these boards before or, better yet, has jumper settings for it? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 17 03:23:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: dg computer In-Reply-To: <4120032016213721810@indy.net> References: <4120032016213721810@indy.net> Message-ID: <34635.64.169.63.74.1045473663.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "TONY CLOUGH" wrote: > my first computer was a digital group.had a selectable bios so you could > use a 6502 or 6800 processor. Nice! The interchangeable processor cards were one of the big selling points for The Digital Group, but most people bought 8080 or Z-80 CPUs rather than the 6502 or 6800, because there was essentially no 6502 or 6800 software from The Digital Group beyond the monitor PROM. A lot of my friends in the Denver area bought the 6502 machines though, and many of those that couldn't afford that built homebrew machines, or bought bare PCBs designed by Tommy Billings (TLB computers). There was a very active club called the "6502 Group" which met every tuesday night on the Colorado School of Mines campus in Golden. The group actually still exists and still meets every tuesday, but most of the discussion is about matters other than 6502s these days. For a while it was called the 6502/68000 group, but the name was too unweildy, and it wasn't really specific to either processor any more. I couldn't afford a machine back then, being a Junior High School student, but have managed to acquire two in recent years. Finding software and documentation is a challenge; the first came with none, but the second actually came with a fair amount. I also was able to borrow a manual from Sellam to scan -- I need to convert it to PDF one of these days and put it on my Digital Group web page: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/the_digital_group/ The Digital Group tried to expand too quickly and ran into financial trouble. They filed for bankruptcy (chapter 11, reorganization), but there was one creditor that refused to approve the reorganization plan, so the company was liquidated. Eric From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 17 06:08:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: No SPAM (was: Emulated Peripherals) In-Reply-To: <002f01c2d601$9a5c8060$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3E50DE60.22747.242FB17E@localhost> > UGGGGG!!!!! > Ok, what moderator let that obvious advertisement through??? I know it > wasn't me. > Sorry folks, I'll try to ensure that doesn't happen again. Excuse me ? It might have been advertisement, but not more than what other do. In fact, I considere all these 'xxx for sale' messages whose bodies include a 'see my ebay link' SPAM and unwanted advertisement (note: this doesn't mean the messages when someone points out possible interesting facts and auctions, only the primitive self pointing advertisement). I found the letter quite apropriate and sesitive made. My Impression is that Dave realy tried to be of help to our comunity. It also looks like he has looked onto the CC archives before writeing. That's more than some list members do. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 17 06:10:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: References: <3E4F9669.20701.5CDA31CC@localhost> Message-ID: <3E50DEC0.3269.24312793@localhost> > > I was sort of shocked to see snide remarks directed at the guy > > who posted a (well, blatantly commercial -- but let's pass that > > by for now) message about his company's legacy emulation > > products. > I completely second this. Me2 > Just my 200 millidollar. Waitaminute, you're raising the price level ! :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Mon Feb 17 06:16:00 2003 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: HP-IB Mass Storage Emulation (Help) Message-ID: <200302171214.HAA18097@king.mcs.drexel.edu> I have been working for some time on a pet project to make a mass storage emulator for HP-IB systems. Given the massive improvement in capacity that has taken place the past 10 years, most mass storage devices from the 80s look pathetic. For example, take the HP 9133H which is a massive unit that can store about 5Mb. Even the compact flash cards that are bundled with popular digital cameras can do better than that. I started my project by trying to utilize the HP-IB drivers that are part of the NetBSD Open Source Unix clone (which runs on the HP 300 series), but I have come to realize that the HP-IB cards are the creating a new legacy issue. Open Source drivers for HP-IB cards are very hard to find and thus any solution that depends on them becomes de facto legacy (once the card itself is no longer sold, finding the card becomes almost as difficult as finding HP 9133H drives). So I looked hard at the HP-IB bus itself (using the schematics from the Series 80 adaptor) and it looks like a simple parallel bus. So why use a custom card, if the PC parallel port can be adapted to drive an HP-IB bus. If the PC parallel port can be used, then I can port the NetBSD drivers to use the parallel port, rather than the HP 300 HP-IB interface. The NetBSD drivers also support SS-80 compatible mass storage devices, which means that the implementation can be verified against a real HP-IB mass storage device. If this works than the drivers will have to be modified so that they become a mass storage "server" rather than a "client" (i.e. a device that responds to mass storage requests, instead of a computer that issues such requests). Small i386 compatible single board computers are easily procurable and embedded versions of *BSD and Linux systems run on these SBCs (they even accept compact flash cards or more traditional hard disks). This means that we can make a mass storage device that can physically fit inside the cabinet of the main unit (e.g. Integral PC, or HP-87). Anybody willing to provide assistance to this effort, is welcome to contact me. However, I think that going through this list may be more beneficial so that other people can contribute in the technical discussion. **vp From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 17 06:17:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Keeping Machines alive (was: Emulated Peripherals) In-Reply-To: References: <3E4F9669.20701.5CDA31CC@localhost> Message-ID: <3E50E059.24017.24376720@localhost> > > Third, does it make sense to offend the people who are first in > > line to help find new homes for classic gear when it eventually > > gets completely decommissioned? > Indeed. They are, after all, keeping old machines alive and in operation, > doing useful work. That's something that most people on this list cannot > claim :/ Jup. Keeping a machine in (daily) operation is the most desireable way of preservation. I have given out machines from my collection to prople who still use tham, several times. There is no better caretaker than someone wo needs it to do a job (well, of course after clarifying a few things about ad-hoc modifications :). The only condition is that I want to get the machine back after it's no longer being used. Which works fine, and usual even bring more stuff back to me, especialy invaluable documentation, than I have lend them. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dmabry at mich.com Mon Feb 17 06:23:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Intel ISIS-II information and systems References: <16020347.44805@webbox.com> Message-ID: <3E50D3A9.9070404@mich.com> Steve, I have several Intel MDS Series II systems and am interested in your story on yours. I also have lots of software for ISIS-II so maybe we can compare notes. Joe Rigdon here on this list will also be interested. Your ISIS-II disassembly sounds interesting as well. I have put together a package of software to allow someone to use Kermit to transfer to and from ISIS-II and CP/M 2 on the MDS, so if you are interested in that let me know. Once you have that working you can e-mail the ISIS software and get it into the MDS. Keep us posted. Steve Thatcher wrote: > Hi, I just found this list and wanted to see who else might be > interested in ISIS-II. I am in the process of restoring a MDS-220 > machine and I have all the old software from my MDS days back > in the 70s and 80s (OS, ICE, assmeblers, etc, etc, etc. I also > have iPDS software and machines if anyone is interested. > > I also had disassembled and modified ISIS-II to run on a Northstar > Horizon system I had back then. If anyone is interested in running > ISIS on a different machine, I will have source code available > once I get my MDS up and running. > > Best regards, Steve Thatcher > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 17 06:29:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Why did they publish 'blank' pages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E50E338.22681.24429E57@localhost> > Can anybody shed some light on the origin and use of the term "This space > intenionally left blank"? It was common for loose paper binder books (my own atempt at translation - how ever you call it in english). If there was an update comming, which had less pages than the ones to be removed, empty papers where submitted, so the number of pages did still work out. Otherwise maybe the pages between 5-3 and 5-6 woud have been 'missing' in the eyes of an uninformed reader. So two blank pages have been delivered. Now to show that these are not printing errors the text was printed on there. Take it like dummy records in a data base, sometimes existion for special key values... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 17 07:23:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:54 2005 Subject: Wanted: L5-30 Receptacle or Adapter in US Message-ID: <343224696.20030217072125@subatomix.com> I'm looking for someone in the US with a L5-30 receptacle or an adapter so that I can plug my L5-30-plugged DEC 861PC Power Controller into a standard wall outlet. Thanks! -- Jeffrey Sharp From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Feb 17 07:38:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: still have the androbot robot? References: <000401c2d630$2a57da10$6401a8c0@DesktopSouth> Message-ID: <3E50E631.4070708@tiac.net> An androbot? Nope, none here, but I do have a 'cherry' HERO 2000 on-hand. David Bakaleinikoff wrote: >Ran across an old thread reguarding a androbot topo robot.. Is it still >around? From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Feb 17 07:42:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals References: <200302170430.XAA673805@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3E50E72E.1070004@tiac.net> I think thats a typo, probably was supposed to read MBC, a large west-coast HP support house. And yes, there are lots of MBG's, my neighbor has one in his garage! Megan wrote: >>allow posting by crisis, and MBG, and keyways, and imsai.net, oh, and all >> > ^^^ >Excuse me? I don't post ads or spam... > >Is there another mbg? > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | >| | | >| "this space | (s/ at /@/) | >| unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Feb 17 07:46:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Why did they publish 'blank' pages References: <3E507A07.6040606@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3E50E807.7060208@tiac.net> > Zane H. Healy wrote: > >>> Can anybody shed some light on the origin and use of the term "This >>> space >>> intenionally left blank"? >> I beleive that the origin of this comes from military 'technical orders', or TO's. These are the service manuals for military gear, and they are frequenctly updated by replacing pages and sections. The update process for TO's can be very complicated. To reduce the need to replace the table of contents or other sections that refer to yet other sections of the manual, blank pages are often inserted to keep the T.O.C. aligned with the page numbers. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Feb 17 07:50:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: TLC Ideas for LA120 Keyboard? References: <1957228323.20030217005435@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E50E7E6.2080404@Vishay.com> Jeffrey, the contacts you describe from your LA120 (cannot look at my own right now) seem to be similar to what I saw in a VT100 keyboard. This keyboard had been stored in a place were mice and rabbits lived, but it recovered from initial contact problems just by continued use: the isolating plastic has a cleaning effect on the electrical contacts as it slides between them. In general, I often have success when cleaning contacts by wiping them with paper: it's rough enough to remove corrosive layers, but soft enough to keep the contacts intact, and it's readily available. Best way to apply is: put paper between contact fingers while the switch is open, then close switch, and, while applying little or no additional pressure on the contacts, move paper back and forth a bit. You will sometimes see a line left on the paper, especially if the contacts are very dirty. This line proves that the method works. Given the limited space around your keyboard contacts, you'll probably want to cut a narrow stripe of paper, insert it with the help of a screwdriver because you cannot open the contacts otherwise, then take out the screwdriver and just pull out the paper from under the contact. For this type of mechanical contact, a chemical solvent may also be appropriate. I don't use contact cleaners on variable resistors (and some other stuff) because it solves the problem only for a limited time, and when the problem reappears afterwards, it's worse than before. A "volume" potentiometer treated this way will crackle even louder in about a month or two. BTW: nice ASCII graphics! :-) Andreas Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Well, my DEC LA120 is almost perfectly operational. Its only problem is a > set of keys that do not work when pressed. I'd like to fix that. ... > Any suggestions? > -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Feb 17 07:59:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: HP-IB Mass Storage Emulation (Help) References: <200302171214.HAA18097@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <3E50EB2E.8070906@tiac.net> A PC's parallel port CANNOT emulate an HPIB bus without a good deal of external hardware, and if you did the performance would be terrible, nearly unusable. Why not simply get a National Instruments HPIB card and write some code to turn a standard PC into your emulated HPIB stroage system? No hardware needs to be fabricated, its a fairly simply matter of writing some code so some part of the PC's hard disk is used to emulate the HPIB disk. Also HPIB disks are VERY common, and also VERY reliable. Ask on this listy and you will hear stories of CS/80 drives from HP being underwater, thrown into dumpsters, and other suffering forms of abuse without any problems at all. As for capacity issues, many HPIB drives (like HP's CS/80 drives) have a rather low limit (in modern terms) on their maximum capacity due to the limited disk address field size. Modern devices like ATA (IDE) drives are many times larger than this maximim capacity. So a true emulation of these devices (needed for driver compatibility) will not be able to use much of the modern drives actual capacity. Given that you can find a working CS/80 drive on eBay for short money, is this project worth doing? If so, I'd have to reccomend using a commercial HPIB interface board and some code running on a PC rather than developing any custom hardware. It pains me to say this, as I'm a hardware engineer, but sometimes the best solution is not to design any hardware. This is exactly such a case. Vassilis Prevelakis wrote: >I have been working for some time on a pet project to make a mass >storage emulator for HP-IB systems. Given the massive improvement in >capacity that has taken place the past 10 years, most mass storage >devices from the 80s look pathetic. > >For example, take the HP 9133H which is a massive unit that can store >about 5Mb. Even the compact flash cards that are bundled with popular >digital cameras can do better than that. > >I started my project by trying to utilize the HP-IB drivers that are >part of the NetBSD Open Source Unix clone (which runs on the HP 300 >series), but I have come to realize that the HP-IB cards are the >creating a new legacy issue. > >Open Source drivers for HP-IB cards are very hard to find and thus any >solution that depends on them becomes de facto legacy (once the card >itself is no longer sold, finding the card becomes almost as difficult >as finding HP 9133H drives). > >So I looked hard at the HP-IB bus itself (using the schematics from the >Series 80 adaptor) and it looks like a simple parallel bus. So why use >a custom card, if the PC parallel port can be adapted to drive an HP-IB >bus. > >If the PC parallel port can be used, then I can port the NetBSD drivers >to use the parallel port, rather than the HP 300 HP-IB interface. The >NetBSD drivers also support SS-80 compatible mass storage devices, >which means that the implementation can be verified against a real >HP-IB mass storage device. If this works than the drivers will have to >be modified so that they become a mass storage "server" rather than a >"client" (i.e. a device that responds to mass storage requests, instead >of a computer that issues such requests). > >Small i386 compatible single board computers are easily procurable and >embedded versions of *BSD and Linux systems run on these SBCs (they >even accept compact flash cards or more traditional hard disks). This >means that we can make a mass storage device that can physically fit >inside the cabinet of the main unit (e.g. Integral PC, or HP-87). > >Anybody willing to provide assistance to this effort, is welcome to >contact me. However, I think that going through this list may be >more beneficial so that other people can contribute in the technical >discussion. > >**vp From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Feb 17 08:00:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: TLC Ideas for LA120 Keyboard? In-Reply-To: <1957228323.20030217005435@subatomix.com> Message-ID: I've had pretty good luck fixing keyboards like that. First, take the keytop off. Then pull out the inner plastic housing. To do this, you'll need to use some small pliers and be very careful not to damage it. Once it is out, remove the spring. Now you have better access to the contacts. Take a scrap of paper and get it wet with isopropyl alcohol, then put it between the contacts while pressing them together a little bit with a screwdriver or something, and pull the paper out. This does a pretty good job of cleaning the contacts, and I have also had luck with dry paper. Rougher paper helps, and if they are really dirty, I would imagine you could try using some very fine grit sandpaper, being careful not to damage the contacts. Once you've cleaned the contacts, put the spring back in, and the inner plastic housing (be sure to get the plastic bar going the right direction!). I have used this technique to fix my DEC VT100 keyboard, as well as some other terminal keyboards that have a similar mechanism. Good luck! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, February 17, 2003, at 01:54 AM, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Well, my DEC LA120 is almost perfectly operational. Its only problem > is a > set of keys that do not work when pressed. I'd like to fix that. > > What I see when I remove the keycap is a square plastic housing that > slides > vertically within a larger square plastic housing. The smaller housing > slides down when one presses a key. A spring below the smaller square > housing pushes the housing back up when the key is no longer pressed. > Up > through the smaller housing shoot two electrical contacts. The > contacts are > fixed and do not slide with the housing. When the key is up, a plastic > bar > across the middle of the smaller housing holds the two contacts apart. > When > the key moves down, the bar moves down and no longer holds the contacts > apart. The contacts touch and complete a circuit, and the LA120 senses > a > keystroke. > > Top view (key not pressed): > > +-A------------------+ > | +-B-----+-+------+ | > | | | | | | > | | | | | | | | > | | D |C| E | | > | | | | | | | | > | | | | | | > | +-------+-+------+ | > +--------------------+ > > Side view (key pressed): > > | | /\ | | > A B / \ | | > | | D E | | > | | / +--+ \ | | > | | / |C | \ | | > | | / +--+ \ | | > | +----------------+ | > | /\/\/\/\F/\/\/\/\/ | > +--------------------+ > > A = Outer (fixed) housing > B = Inner (sliding) housing > C = Bar that holds contacts apart when not pressed > D = Electrical contact > E = Electrical contact > F = Spring > > The problem is that the circuit isn't being closed when the key is > pressed. > If I stick a screwdriver in there, bridge the gap between the contact, > and > thus close it manually, a keypress is sensed. Actually, it senses > several > keypresses very quickly, probably because of the noise caused by the > conductive screwdriver scraping across the contacts. When I press the > housing down, the contacts *appear* to touch, but no keystroke is > sensed. So > I figure there are either or both of two possible things going on: > > (1) Tiny space between the contacts > (2) Nonconductive material (corrosion? oxidation?) on the contacts > > Two keys were fixed by using the screwdriver to bend the contacts > toward > each other in the hopes of creating more force pushing them towards > each > other. The ENTER key does not seem to be responding well to that > treatment. > One thing is for sure. All this stuff is so tiny and hard to get to > that it > is difficult to work on. > > Any suggestions? > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Feb 17 08:45:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS Message-ID: The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago Tribune. Not the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important event in computer history. http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D03021 60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology Bob From livewire at netadel.com Mon Feb 17 09:24:00 2003 From: livewire at netadel.com (Live Wire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Apple IIe / Ddial update References: Message-ID: <002b01c2d698$3d548ec0$0201a8c0@netadelxp> > Do you still have a list of DiversiDial systems and their phone numbers? > It might be possible to call those numbers and get someone's mom or dad > whose son (or daughter?) used to run a DiversiDial in their teenage days. I've contacted the people who I knew who also ran Ddial. The response I got from them was either "i dont even have that anymore" or "Yeah.. somehwere in the attic, but I'm not looking for it" or worse yet "the license says i cant even lease it to you,, much less give it." Any luck moving that image to a floppy? From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Feb 17 09:35:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS References: Message-ID: <00ea01c2d699$cbd4b390$dd08dd40@oemcomputer> Thanks for the tip a good bit of history. :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:42 AM Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS > The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago Tribune. Not > the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important event in > computer history. > http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D03021 > 60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology > > > Bob From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 17 09:35:30 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals References: <005901c2d629$e5b3bc40$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <149197094.20030217012724@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <00bf01c2d697$76af4940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Jeff wrote... > When is it easy? :-) There are always gray areas, and the truth of it all is > that the result depends on the mood of the moderator. Jeff hit the nail on the head. My apologies to the list. I have also apologized directly to Dave Dunn. Jay West From djg at drs-esg.com Mon Feb 17 09:42:00 2003 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Berg Connectors Message-ID: <200302171539.KAA07917@drs-esg.com> >From: "Charles H. Dickman" >Is there a replacement for the Berg connectors? > >I am talking about the 100mil spacing, dual inline connectors that had >individually insertable, crimp contacts. The AMP MT connectors look like >a replacement. Does anybody have experience with this? > I have used others, may of been amp. The main problem is that when using standard 40 pin connectors they are narrower so it is possible to misalign when plugging in the cable. I have put a blob of glue on the ends of the connector to take up some of the slop so I can't plug them in wrong. DEC used a 44 pin connector for the discrete wire which doesn't seem to be common. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 17 09:42:27 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: HP-IB Mass Storage Emulation (Help) In-Reply-To: <3E50EB2E.8070906@tiac.net> References: <200302171214.HAA18097@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030217103920.05957c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> The Hewlett Package HPIB cards are on eBay from time to time also. At 09:01 AM 2/17/03 -0500, you wrote: >A PC's parallel port CANNOT emulate an HPIB bus without a good deal of >external hardware, and >if you did the performance would be terrible, nearly unusable. > >Why not simply get a National Instruments HPIB card and write some code to >turn a standard PC into >your emulated HPIB stroage system? > >No hardware needs to be fabricated, its a fairly simply matter of writing >some code so some part of the PC's >hard disk is used to emulate the HPIB disk. > >Also HPIB disks are VERY common, and also VERY reliable. Ask on this >listy and you will hear stories of >CS/80 drives from HP being underwater, thrown into dumpsters, and other >suffering forms of abuse without >any problems at all. > >As for capacity issues, many HPIB drives (like HP's CS/80 drives) have a >rather low limit (in modern terms) on >their maximum capacity due to the limited disk address field size. Modern >devices like ATA (IDE) drives are many >times larger than this maximim capacity. So a true emulation of these >devices (needed for driver compatibility) >will not be able to use much of the modern drives actual capacity. > >Given that you can find a working CS/80 drive on eBay for short money, is >this project worth doing? > >If so, I'd have to reccomend using a commercial HPIB interface board and >some code running on a PC rather >than developing any custom hardware. It pains me to say this, as I'm a >hardware engineer, but sometimes the >best solution is not to design any hardware. This is exactly such a case. > >Vassilis Prevelakis wrote: > >>I have been working for some time on a pet project to make a mass >>storage emulator for HP-IB systems. Given the massive improvement in >>capacity that has taken place the past 10 years, most mass storage >>devices from the 80s look pathetic. >> >>For example, take the HP 9133H which is a massive unit that can store >>about 5Mb. Even the compact flash cards that are bundled with popular >>digital cameras can do better than that. >> >>I started my project by trying to utilize the HP-IB drivers that are >>part of the NetBSD Open Source Unix clone (which runs on the HP 300 >>series), but I have come to realize that the HP-IB cards are the >>creating a new legacy issue. >> >>Open Source drivers for HP-IB cards are very hard to find and thus any >>solution that depends on them becomes de facto legacy (once the card >>itself is no longer sold, finding the card becomes almost as difficult >>as finding HP 9133H drives). >> >>So I looked hard at the HP-IB bus itself (using the schematics from the >>Series 80 adaptor) and it looks like a simple parallel bus. So why use >>a custom card, if the PC parallel port can be adapted to drive an HP-IB >>bus. >> >>If the PC parallel port can be used, then I can port the NetBSD drivers >>to use the parallel port, rather than the HP 300 HP-IB interface. The >>NetBSD drivers also support SS-80 compatible mass storage devices, >>which means that the implementation can be verified against a real >>HP-IB mass storage device. If this works than the drivers will have to >>be modified so that they become a mass storage "server" rather than a >>"client" (i.e. a device that responds to mass storage requests, instead >>of a computer that issues such requests). >> >>Small i386 compatible single board computers are easily procurable and >>embedded versions of *BSD and Linux systems run on these SBCs (they >>even accept compact flash cards or more traditional hard disks). This >>means that we can make a mass storage device that can physically fit >>inside the cabinet of the main unit (e.g. Integral PC, or HP-87). >> >>Anybody willing to provide assistance to this effort, is welcome to >>contact me. However, I think that going through this list may be >>more beneficial so that other people can contribute in the technical >>discussion. >> >>**vp From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 17 09:42:50 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Intel ISIS-II information and systems In-Reply-To: <16020347.44805@webbox.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030217103445.3b8fc26c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Steve, I have two working MDS-800s, a working MDS-235 with a hard drive that I haven't connected yet, a 310, three more untested 800s and about 6 untested 220/225s. Also a large pile of various MDSs accessories including an original Intel terminal (rebadged Beehive). Also four disassembled 86/330s. I use ISIS-II routinely. But Dave Mabry is the real expert on the Intel MDSs here, he's been using them since they were new! Dave has a number of MDSs, I think Tony Duell has one and there are a couple more people on the list with MDSs. I'm also running CPM that Dave modified for the MDSs. I'd like to get a copy of your disassmbled code when you find it. Joe At 12:26 PM 2/16/03 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, I just found this list and wanted to see who else might be >interested in ISIS-II. I am in the process of restoring a MDS-220 >machine and I have all the old software from my MDS days back >in the 70s and 80s (OS, ICE, assmeblers, etc, etc, etc. I also >have iPDS software and machines if anyone is interested. > >I also had disassembled and modified ISIS-II to run on a Northstar >Horizon system I had back then. If anyone is interested in running >ISIS on a different machine, I will have source code available >once I get my MDS up and running. > >Best regards, Steve Thatcher From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 17 09:43:15 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: HP-IB Mass Storage Emulation (Help) In-Reply-To: <3E50EB2E.8070906@tiac.net> References: <200302171214.HAA18097@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030217104550.3b876494@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:01 AM 2/17/03 -0500, Bob Shannon wrote: >Also HPIB disks are VERY common, and also VERY reliable. Ask on this >listy and you will hear stories of >CS/80 drives from HP being underwater, thrown into dumpsters, and other >suffering forms of abuse without >any problems at all. Bob isn't joking. The first HP-IB dirve that I bought was sitting in plastic tote bin half full of water. The drive was 2/3 covered but I bought it anyway (a whopping $2!). I dried it out for a couple of days and plugged it into a 9000 220 and it booted right up! Since then I've found that that's pretty normal with the HP stuff. I've bought plenty of it that has been underwater, dropped down oil wells (HP-15C) , left sitting in fields in the weather for months, thrown out of four story windows into onto pavement and just about any other abuse that you can think of and most of it worked. I love the quality of the older HP stuff! Joe From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Mon Feb 17 10:00:01 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: HP-IB Mass Storage Emulation (Help) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030217104550.3b876494@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200302171214.HAA18097@king.mcs.drexel.edu> <3.0.6.16.20030217104550.3b876494@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <61390.62.148.198.97.1045497469.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Joe said: > think of and most of it worked. I love the quality of the older HP stuff! > Amen! I hauled my 7933 on a small trailer (single axle (sp?), no shocks or springs) approx 100km. When I got home I disconnected the trailer from the car, didn't notice that the drive was on the back of the trailer: Disconnect from car, drive (and the back of the trailer) smash down, front end flies up, almost taking my chin in the process. Scared the living s*** out of me. The drive works just fine modulo a few bad blocks. -- jht From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Feb 17 10:15:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: North Star Controllers In-Reply-To: <200302171539.KAA07917@drs-esg.com> References: <200302171539.KAA07917@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <22258.130.76.32.21.1045498381.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> I have a number of North Star Floppy controllers. They are all marked MDC-4A (IIRC). And I have a couple of manuals that are marked MDS-A. I have always assumed they were just a different model. But I got another this weekend and it was from a guy that was miticulous about saving everything. Has all his notes and even the original sales receipts. But the MDC-4A came with an MDS-A manual. Now I'm a bit confused. Is there a controller with the part number of MDA-A? If so, is it significantly different than the MDC-4A? From arlen at acm.org Mon Feb 17 10:38:00 2003 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Intel ISIS-II information and systems In-Reply-To: <16020347.44805@webbox.com> Message-ID: on 16/2/03 3:26 PM, Steve Thatcher at melamy@earthlink.net wrote: > I also > have iPDS software and machines if anyone is interested. I rescued an iPDS100 which I finally got running using some software kindly supplied by Dave Mabry. I'd like to learn more about these systems and get a better idea of what software was available for them. Mine also came with an in-circuit emulator pod "EMV-88". It would be great to find scans of the manuals. Arlen Michaels From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Feb 17 10:52:01 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Converting simh .tap file to real tape Message-ID: <1045500571.29349.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> I've a .tap file with an image of the micro 83 maintenance tape. I tried writing the image to a real tape using vtserver, however, vtserver appears to want to put the entire .tap image into one tape file on the real tape. Is there a program out there that will do the correct thing (boot blocks in file 0, data in file 1, etc, etc)? I'm running RSTS/E 9.7 on the machine and can xfer the .tap file to the -11 using kermit. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Feb 17 10:56:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago Tribune. Not > the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important event in > computer history. > http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D03021 > 60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology > Another interesting place to check out is http://www.bbsdocumentary.com g. From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Feb 17 10:57:01 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <20030216000850.24566.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030216000850.24566.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1045500789.2074.229.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Sat, 2003-02-15 at 16:08, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I remembered the OEM part. I was thinking the 11/10 came out > right after the 11/20. Perhaps you are right. That was a little > before my time. My first exposure to -11s was in 1984. We used an > 11/04 to bench-test our products, an 11/24 for the accounting department > (with *4* RL02s), an 11/34a for software development (RSTS and RSX-11), > and an 11/23 or two for other purposes lost to time. > > That was *many* years after the 11/20 came out. > My introduction to PDP-11s (and PDP-10s) was in school. The notable introductions while I was there were: 11/34, KL10, and the 11/780 (we had s/n 1). We had gobs of 11/40s and 11/20s (even had a few PDP-11s - no other designation ie early 11/20s). C. Gordon Bell had a chair in the EE department while I was there too (though you didn't see him much -- something about this computer company up in MA). BTW anyone know where I can find a set of manuals for BLISS-11? It's what I primarily programmed in (that and SAIL and eventually 'C') while in school. If I'm feeding the nostaliga bug, I might was well do the software as well as the hardware. -- TTFN - Guy From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 17 10:58:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Berg Connectors In-Reply-To: <200302171539.KAA07917@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <20030217165554.85013.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Gesswein wrote: > >From: "Charles H. Dickman" > >Is there a replacement for the Berg connectors? > > > >I am talking about the 100mil spacing, dual inline connectors that had > >individually insertable, crimp contacts... > > > ...DEC used a 44 pin connector for the discrete wire which doesn't seem > to be common. Are those exact ones that DEC used still available? I finally found my crimp tool (after many months of searching), but I have no pins and no shells. I would be interested in purchasing a quantity of 44-pin and 14-pin (for DLV11Js, etc.) shells along with a bag of hundreds of pins, presuming such things are still purchasable. -ethan From kth at srv.net Mon Feb 17 11:24:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Converting simh .tap file to real tape References: <1045500571.29349.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3E511FD3.4000205@srv.net> Christopher McNabb wrote: >I've a .tap file with an image of the micro 83 maintenance tape. I >tried writing the image to a real tape using vtserver, however, >vtserver appears to want to put the entire .tap image into one tape file >on the real tape. Is there a program out there that will do the correct >thing (boot blocks in file 0, data in file 1, etc, etc)? > >I'm running RSTS/E 9.7 on the machine and can xfer the .tap file to the >-11 using kermit. > Not sure how much help this will be, but here is a program I used to create TAP files on RSTS and VMS systems. This particular copy was used on a VAX system, so you will need to adjust the value assigned to MAX_RECORD% for the smaller memory available on a PDP-11 (8192 should work well). You may also need to strip down the "open" statement for the tape drive (lose organization, recordtype and access; but leave the recordsize), but you might need them if you compile with Basic+2. Code is ugly, but it worked. Images created were usable with simh. It might at least give you a start at reversing the process. 1 ! ! Program to read a tape into simh format file ! ! Ugly and rough, but it works. ! Anything unexpected will cause it to crash. ! ! You must first "mount mka500:/for/blo=65000" before ! running this ! ! 08/16/2002 - Kevin Handy ! Fixed it so it actualy works ! 100 TAPE.CH% = 7% LINPUT "Tape device ", TAPE_DEVICE$ TAPE_DEVICE$ = "MKA500:" IF TAPE_DEVICE$ = "" ! ! Make this smaller for RSTS, else it will run out of memory ! MAX_RECORD% = 50240% OPEN TAPE_DEVICE$ for input AS FILE TAPE.CH%, & ORGANIZATION SEQUENTIAL, & RECORDTYPE NONE, & RECORDSIZE MAX_RECORD%, & ACCESS READ V% = MAGTAPE(3%, 0%, tape.CH%) ! Rewind tape 110 FILE.CH% = 8% LINPUT "Save into ", FILE_NAME$ FILE_NAME$ = "TAPE.TAPE" IF FILE_NAME$ = "" ! ! Lose everything from ORGANIZATION on for RSTS, which doesn't ! need it. ! OPEN FILE_NAME$ FOR OUTPUT AS FILE FILE.CH%, & ORGANIZATION SEQUENTIAL fixed, & RECORDTYPE NONE, & RECORDSIZE 512% EOF% = 0% 200 WHEN ERROR IN GET #TAPE.CH% RCT% = recount USE IF ERR = 11% OR ERR=252% THEN CONTINUE WriteEOF END IF PRINT "Unhandled error"; err; " "; ert$(err) stop END WHEN EOF% = 0% print "!";rct%; print RCT% if ccpos(0%) >= 50% 250 FIELD #TAPE.CH%, RCT% AS TBUFFER$ BUFFER$ = BUFFER$ + & CHR$(RCT% AND 255%) + & CHR$(RCT% / 256% AND 255%) + & CHR$(RCT% / (256% * 256%) AND 255%) + & CHR$(RCT% / (256% * 256%* 256%) AND 255%) + & & TBUFFER$ + & & CHR$(RCT% AND 255%) + & CHR$(RCT% / 256% AND 255%) + & CHR$(RCT% / (256% * 256%) AND 255%) + & CHR$(RCT% / (256% * 256%* 256%) AND 255%) GOSUB WriteBlocks GOTO 200 WriteEof: IF EOF% = 0% THEN ! ! First EOF ! RCT% = 0% GOSUB WriteLength EOF% = 1% ELSE ! ! Second EOF ! RCT% = 0% GOSUB WriteLength GOSUB WriteLength GOTO ExitProgram END IF GOTO 200 WriteLength: 500 BUFFER$ = BUFFER$ + & CHR$(RCT% AND 255%) + & CHR$(RCT% / 256% AND 255%) + & CHR$(RCT% / (256% * 256%) AND 255%) + & CHR$(RCT% / (256% * 256%* 256%) AND 255%) GOSUB WriteBlocks RETURN WriteBlocks: 600 WHILE LEN(BUFFER$) >= 512% FIELD #FILE.CH%, 512% AS XBUFFER$ LSET XBUFFER$ = BUFFER$ PUT #FILE.CH% BUFFER$ = RIGHT(BUFFER$, 513%) NEXT RETURN ExitProgram: 10000 GOSUB WriteBlocks IF BUFFER$ <> "" THEN FIELD #FILE.CH%, 512% AS XBUFFER$ LSET XBUFFER$ = BUFFER$ PUT #FILE.CH% END IF CLOSE FILE.CH% CLOSE TAPE.CH% 32767 END From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 17 11:30:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030217032705.0515ce20@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > The Navy recently needed some Ariel Hydra Plus DSP boards and contacted > me about them. They mentioned also searching eBay. > > Well, I ended up seeing some at ... > > Ariel Hydra VME single board DSP computer > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=2302043683 > > I talked to the seller and he thought he had a thousand dollar reserve > on them. I told him, no, no reserve, just $500 opening bid. > > He had made a mistake listing it and ended the auction because of his > mistake. > > I couldn't buy them. My buying budget couldn't cover $1000 boards that I > wasn't sure were even going to be the right part ( minor difference in > last digit of part number) and I'm not an extraordinarily strong player. > > But I gave the client the seller's phone number, and seems they may have > had possibilities. > > Response from client ... > > > Bennett: > > > Will do. The boards on Ebay do not have the VSB option that we ideally > require, however these boards still may > be workable. We are researching > to find out what the slightly different part number denotes. We are still > > interested in any additional leads you may be able to find. Thanks for > your work on this! > > I still want to follow up and see if this worked out. > > Wish I could have made a little to cover my bills, but didn't seem doable > on this one. How inspiring. Yesterday, I unloaded the clean dishes out of the dishwasher and put them away, then re-filled it with dirty dishes, even though I was really tired, so my girlfriend wouldn't have to. > But I might have saved you all a lot of money, and might have solved a > national need. I put my plastics, papers and metals into the recycle bin instead of the trash. I saved the environment. > But, might have built up the karma level. Apparently not enough to avert this sort of reply. > Right now I might see the light at the end of the tunnel on a project > for the Saudi government. ( They are our allies ). Most of the hikackers on 9/11 were Saudi Arabian nationals. The Saudis are the Uncle Tom's of the Arab world. > Also just donated a chassis to Cornell University ... > > http://wwwapps.ups.com/etracking/tracking.cgi?TypeOfInquiryNumber=T&InquiryNumber=1Z2378230350228079 > > With chassis, you can't get enough for them to make them worth packaging > and shipping. So my terms were the mailing center had to do it. Plus I > didn't have suitable materials. I gave a guy a dollar yesterday because he didn't have change and I didn't have enough in my wallet to break his ten. So I just gave him the buck. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Mon Feb 17 11:38:00 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Atari 400 Power Supply Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030217123159.02466b30@popmail.voicenet.com> I need a power supply for an Atari 400 computer and have the following to choose from. Does anyone know which if any to use with the 400: Atari Power Supply Model CO 14319 IP 120vac 60hz 18.5w OP 9vac 15.3va Atari Power Supply Part Number C010472 IP 120v 60hz 9w OP 9v dc 500ma Atari Power Supply part number C016804 IP 120v 60hz OP 9vac 31VA Atari Power Supply part number C017945 IP 120v 60hz 50w OP 9vac 31VA Atari Power Supply part number CA14748 IP 120v 60hz 20w OP 15VA Atari Power Supply part number C016353 IP 120v 60hz 11w OP 9v DC 500ma for Atari 2600 Atari Plug In Power Supply - Part Number C061515 IP 120vac 60hz 7.5va OP 9vac 500ma Atari Power Supply part number C018187 IP 120vac 60hz 38va OP9.3vdc at 1.95A From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 17 11:41:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: L5-30 Receptacle or Adapter in US In-Reply-To: <343224696.20030217072125@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > I'm looking for someone in the US with a L5-30 receptacle or an adapter > so that I can plug my L5-30-plugged DEC 861PC Power Controller into a > standard wall outlet. That should be something you can find at your local hardware or electrical supply store. I just found an L5-30R by searching Home Depot's site (Leviton Model 70530FR): $13.95. Be aware that you are asking to plug a 30-amp device into a standard wall outlet (I assume you mean a standard US receptacle with two vertical blades and possible a ground pin). This is not recommended, since those types of receptacles usually only accomodate up to 20 amps. You need a 30 amp circuit. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwillis at arielusa.com Mon Feb 17 11:42:01 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 question Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB786@deathstar.arielnet.com> I just received a new board set for my VAX 11/750, which includes an L0004 to replace the one I had before, which would send output to the console, but wouldn't read input from the console. Now, however, when I put in the new L0004, it prints garbage on the console. What's more, the _old_ L0004 doesn't print anything on the console anymore. Any ideas? TIA, John W. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 17 11:44:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: HP-IB Mass Storage Emulation (Help) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030217104550.3b876494@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > ...thrown out of four story windows into onto pavement... What's the story behind that one? ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 17 11:47:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030217032705.0515ce20@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030217124433.05935930@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hey Sellam, > Most of the hikackers on 9/11 were Saudi Arabian nationals. The Saudis > are the Uncle Tom's of the Arab world. Is that where you're from? Best Regards At 09:23 AM 2/17/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > > > The Navy recently needed some Ariel Hydra Plus DSP boards and contacted > > me about them. They mentioned also searching eBay. > > > > Well, I ended up seeing some at ... > > > > Ariel Hydra VME single board DSP computer > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=2302043683 > > > > I talked to the seller and he thought he had a thousand dollar reserve > > on them. I told him, no, no reserve, just $500 opening bid. > > > > He had made a mistake listing it and ended the auction because of his > > mistake. > > > > I couldn't buy them. My buying budget couldn't cover $1000 boards that I > > wasn't sure were even going to be the right part ( minor difference in > > last digit of part number) and I'm not an extraordinarily strong player. > > > > But I gave the client the seller's phone number, and seems they may have > > had possibilities. > > > > Response from client ... > > > > > Bennett: > > > > > Will do. The boards on Ebay do not have the VSB option that we ideally > > require, however these boards still may > be workable. We are researching > > to find out what the slightly different part number denotes. We are still > > > interested in any additional leads you may be able to find. Thanks for > > your work on this! > > > > I still want to follow up and see if this worked out. > > > > Wish I could have made a little to cover my bills, but didn't seem doable > > on this one. > >How inspiring. > >Yesterday, I unloaded the clean dishes out of the dishwasher and put them >away, then re-filled it with dirty dishes, even though I was really tired, >so my girlfriend wouldn't have to. > > > But I might have saved you all a lot of money, and might have solved a > > national need. > >I put my plastics, papers and metals into the recycle bin instead of the >trash. I saved the environment. > > > But, might have built up the karma level. > >Apparently not enough to avert this sort of reply. > > > Right now I might see the light at the end of the tunnel on a project > > for the Saudi government. ( They are our allies ). > >Most of the hikackers on 9/11 were Saudi Arabian nationals. The Saudis >are the Uncle Tom's of the Arab world. > > > Also just donated a chassis to Cornell University ... > > > > > http://wwwapps.ups.com/etracking/tracking.cgi?TypeOfInquiryNumber=T&InquiryNumber=1Z2378230350228079 > > > > With chassis, you can't get enough for them to make them worth packaging > > and shipping. So my terms were the mailing center had to do it. Plus I > > didn't have suitable materials. > >I gave a guy a dollar yesterday because he didn't have change and I didn't >have enough in my wallet to break his ten. So I just gave him the buck. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From fernande at internet1.net Mon Feb 17 12:23:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: <3E50E72E.1070004@tiac.net> References: <200302170430.XAA673805@shell.TheWorld.com> <3E50E72E.1070004@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3E5127CB.4010800@internet1.net> Bob Shannon wrote: > I think thats a typo, probably was supposed to read MBC, a large > west-coast HP support house. > > And yes, there are lots of MBG's, my neighbor has one in his garage! That's not an MBG, it's an MGB :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 17 12:28:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: L5-30 Receptacle or Adapter in US In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Be aware that you are asking to plug a 30-amp device into a standard wall > outlet (I assume you mean a standard US receptacle with two vertical > blades and possible a ground pin). This is not recommended, since those > types of receptacles usually only accomodate up to 20 amps. You need a 30 > amp circuit. ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Not so fast, there, Edison! ;} In this case, only if the equipment *actually draws* the maximum 30 amps... the controller and mains cordset are sized to accomodate the greatest load that particular system can be configured for. This is almost never what the machine actually wants. The purpose of the 30-amp plug is to ensure that safety considerations are followed, and also to have enough reserve power available for additional equipment installations and upgrades, and to avoid 'nuisance tripping' if the system power consumption gets at or near the mains circuit breaker capacity. For example, my PDP 11-44 draws 7.3 amps from the 110V line when it's running, including RL02 activity, and it came with one of those plugs. I just get a nice 'standard' plug from the HomeMegaHardwarePlex near me and perform a connectorectomy on it. Problem solved. If you are really trying for a "100 point" restoration, then I'd use the mains adapter, but otherwise, just change plugs. Cheers Nicky Tesla From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 17 12:33:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: HP-IB Mass Storage Emulation (Help) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030217104550.3b876494@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030217133639.46e7f564@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:37 AM 2/17/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > >> ...thrown out of four story windows into onto pavement... > >What's the story behind that one? That was some government bureaucrat's idea of "de-mil"ing it. Their requirement is that it "must be destroyed beyond it's intended useage" so they dumped a big pile of stuff out onto a parking lot, then piled it in a dumpster and let it sit in the rain for about 6 months. It's a good thing that they don't know how tough the HP stuff is! This particular item was a HP 9825. When I found it the case halves were ajar, about 1/4 of the keys were missing, it was full of water and it was scrapped all to hell. I bought it from the scrap guy for parts for a couple of dollars but I decided to dry it out and test it before I gutted it. Imagine my surprise when it worked perfectly! Joe From go at ao.com Mon Feb 17 12:54:00 2003 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Berg Connectors In-Reply-To: <20030217165554.85013.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200302171539.KAA07917@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030217104133.0293ae90@thriftyspace.com> The pins for these "BERG" harmonica style connectors (we used them *way back* for DLV11J and other connections) can still be found at Mouser. They're a bit pricey though - about $.25 per pin in large quantities. Mouser's part number is 649-47712-000. I'd recommend this part over the others available, as it has a nice "grab" and a 40 micron gold flash which gives it good wear characteristics. We used *lots* of these back in the 1980s and in ugly industrial locations which would eat the tin off of cheaper connectors - *none* of the BERG pins ever failed. I found something that looks similar in the Digi-Key catalog (e.g. WM2555-ND) which sells for about $.10 each in thousands but have no experience with this one. Not even sure the crimper would work - and that'll set you back a few hundred bucks if you need one! -Gary At 08:55 2/17/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Are those exact ones that DEC used still available? I finally found my >crimp tool (after many months of searching), but I have no pins and no >shells. I would be interested in purchasing a quantity of 44-pin and >14-pin (for DLV11Js, etc.) shells along with a bag of hundreds of pins, >presuming such things are still purchasable. > >-ethan From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Feb 17 12:56:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: References: <005901c2d629$e5b3bc40$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3E50DC3B.19201.469D6F1@localhost> So is the list now to to have 2 categories of Spam ? One is acceptable if it is cunningly worded and from industry insiders and the other from ordinary spammers is not. It's easy for the modulator to recognise the obvious, the african spam that is really Scam, the Penis enlargers and such. If industry spam is to be accepted where can we draw the line. I frankly am enraged and offended with the intrusive pop-ups demanding that I download some "necessary" program in order to view some web-page, no matter how enhancing it may be. By the same token I regularly get Spam from IT vendors of repute, and occasionally even don't delete them in disgust and I always disclaim sites or companies that want to put me on their mailing list. Comparing Sellam's or M. Nadeau's notices, or FA Epay alerts and pointers to a product a list member requests, to discounters or "friendly" industry Spam is a straw man. One man's Spam is anothers "info package" The message was obviously a shill. No question. If business seekers or headhunters see fit to send out Spam lures, let them do it individually, not on the list. On the other hand, the other "no subject" message, from analog and digital solutions, while tasteless, was allowable, IMHO. Do we also want to open the doors to chip vendors who want to dismantle a working vintage machine in order to feed some chip collectors fetish? While my response may be considered "snide" by some it was well within the boundaries of acceptable language and couched in the same reasonable tone as the poster. And the word "legacy" as used by most of the large computer companies usually means on "the soon to be no longer supported, but still too popular to drop without tarnishing marketing image" list Lawrence On 16 Feb 2003, , Don Maslin wrote: > On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Jay West wrote: > > > > Please don't. Yes, please remove off-topic SPAM, but > > > adverts related to classic computers, commercial or not, > > > should be allowed here provided the same advert doesn't > > > start appearing too often. > > > > My initial reaction was actually fairly difficult for me, > > as I know and like several of the people at Arraid. > > > > On the one hand, it's obviously on-topic as it lets others > > here know that there are modern drive replacements for > > systems we all would like to keep running. On the other > > hand, their products are generally well outside the price > > range of the home hobbyist, so not sure how much it helps > > us. Thus, my impression is that the post wasn't targeted > > at the listmembers, but rather at sales prospects the > > listmembers may know. Tony asked how this post was > > different than Bob Shannon's post about his drive > > replacement. Very simple - Bob wasn't posting here asking > > us to give the names of companies we know and have trusted > > relationships with, so he could call them and hard sell > > them his product. I'm NOT saying Bob would hard sell, or > > even that Arraid would hard sell (doubtful). But what > > about other companies posting here who may do so? > > > > So, if on-topic SPAM is allowed here as Tony requests > > above... guess we allow posting by crisis, and MBG, and > > keyways, and imsai.net, oh, and all the scrap dealers... > > but it's ok as long as it doesn't appear too often. Ok, > > let me start a spreadsheet, so I can track how often each > > company posts. I'll have to trace each email address on an > > advert, so I can tell if they're trying to post from > > another address. Oh, and I'll also have to call references > > on each company, so I know if they have a history of > > hardselling any references we give them... Ummm wait... I > > do have a day job. > > > > All sarcasm aside... If the membership at large wants to > > allow on-topic adverts, that's fine. But don't make it > > hard on ME to moderate in the future - for one example out > > of many - I suspect Tony's definition of "too often" (wrt > > adverts appearing) is different from Sellams, which is > > different from Jerome's, etc. > > > > Jay > > I think that your judgement was sound in this case and > worthy of our reliance on it in the future. > - don lgwalker@ mts.net From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 17 12:59:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030217124433.05935930@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: Message-ID: <3E513EAA.32077.25A7D05B@localhost> > Hey Sellam, > > Most of the hikackers on 9/11 were Saudi Arabian nationals. The Saudis > > are the Uncle Tom's of the Arab world. > Is that where you're from? I whish, so we have a reason to push him out of the country an confiscate his collection for good :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Feb 17 12:59:25 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Intel ISIS-II information and systems Message-ID: <200302171857.KAA14900@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Steve Thatcher" > >Hi, I just found this list and wanted to see who else might be >interested in ISIS-II. I am in the process of restoring a MDS-220 >machine and I have all the old software from my MDS days back >in the 70s and 80s (OS, ICE, assmeblers, etc, etc, etc. I also >have iPDS software and machines if anyone is interested. > >I also had disassembled and modified ISIS-II to run on a Northstar >Horizon system I had back then. If anyone is interested in running >ISIS on a different machine, I will have source code available >once I get my MDS up and running. > >Best regards, Steve Thatcher > Hi Steve I also have a MDS-800 and a Series II. I've not powered up any of it yet ( too many projects ). I have a pile of software and a bunch of document that all need cataloging. I also have a couple of UPP's. In the hardware I have, I have a non-Intel Ice for a Z80 as well. I used to work at Intel in the development systems division. We had Series II's and 800's as lab machines. I was responsible for system test of the UPP products. If I haven't lost it, I should have a copy of a Fig-Forth that I put under ISIS. Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 17 13:02:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Atari 400 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030217123159.02466b30@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I need a power supply for an Atari 400 computer and have the following to > choose from. Does anyone know which if any to use with the 400: Take your pick. Any of those will work. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 17 13:04:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: L5-30 Receptacle or Adapter in US In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, John Lawson wrote: > In this case, only if the equipment *actually draws* the maximum 30 > amps... the controller and mains cordset are sized to accomodate the You are indeed correct. I just wanted to make sure Jeffrey didn't haphazardly destroy the wiring in his house ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From grg2 at attbi.com Mon Feb 17 13:21:01 2003 From: grg2 at attbi.com (grg2@attbi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: "page left blank" Message-ID: <200302171916.h1HJG7m08815@huey.classiccmp.org> Not that it matters much, but I think it's due to the way pages are printed and bundled together into sections (graphs?). Many printing presses are large enough to print 4 or more pages at a time on one sheet. Then the sheets are cut and folded into sections. This means the number of pages printed and pages per sectio have to be a multiple of 4. So one often ends up with a few blank pages at the end of each section. Nothing that can be done about it without some heavy-duty computer page composition, easier now, but not even remotely possible before 1970 or so. From bill at timeguy.com Mon Feb 17 13:21:39 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: still have the androbot robot? In-Reply-To: <3E50E631.4070708@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20030217074743.P13120-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> You're sure that's not a Cherry 2000? ;-) I've got an Androbot Topo shell (no base, motors, or electronics) that I'd be willing to part with. On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > An androbot? > > Nope, none here, but I do have a 'cherry' HERO 2000 on-hand. > > David Bakaleinikoff wrote: > > >Ran across an old thread reguarding a androbot topo robot.. Is it still > >around? From mr at jasongullickson.com Mon Feb 17 13:22:04 2003 From: mr at jasongullickson.com (Jason J. Gullickson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89 Intro In-Reply-To: <3467CD44.228B5B15.CF1A260E@netscape.net> Message-ID: <153D0FAADC2C90459D202D16D24A94AEAAF41B@webmail.inacom-msn.com> I tried punching "b" when the system starts and that did indeed engage the floppy drive, so things seem good at least up to the monitor (that is the monitor, right?). Do any of you know of a good source of parts or software for this machine? -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bob Mason Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:44 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Heathkit H89 Intro "Jason J. Gullickson" wrote: >I recently acquired what I believe to be a Heathkit H89. It was >assembled a long time ago by my friend's father, contains a single disk >drive and a monochrome terminal. > >My ultimate goal would be to get this thing running CPM and a C >compiler, but first I need to figure out if it's working. > >I've yet to determine if it has a hard or soft-sectored disk >controller, but I have some general questions since I don't have any >documentation. > >First, where can I get some documentation? ; ) I have all the original documentation, including the assembly manual and schematics. My first question is; has Heath/Zenith released H89 docs to P.D.? > >Second, when I turn the machine on, all I get is a blinking cursor. If >I depress the "offline" key, I can type characters on the terminal >accompanied by a short beep; if the "offline" key is not depressed, I >get long beeps and nothing on the display. What "should" it do when I >turn it on with no disk in the drive? > IIRC, on power-up, you only have about 4 options as to what keys you can press. Pressing "B" should respond with "oot" (to boot the machine). I don't remember what the other options were. I also remember a space bar tapping ritual, to syncronize the serial comm between the two boards. Don't remember when that was applicable, though. >I'll be happy to provide more info as I dig it up, but any introductory >details on this system or references to websites, etc. would be greatly >appreciated. > > >Jason J. Gullickson >mr@jasongullickson.com > -- Bob Mason 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, 'ME, 384meg, 20Gig & 40Gig, flatbed. Heathkit H-89A, 64K RAM, hard and soft-sectored floppies, SigmaSoft and Systems 256K RAM Drive/Print Spooler/Graphics board HDOS 2 & CP/M 2.2.03/2.2.04 From badoni_nk at yahoo.com Mon Feb 17 13:22:29 2003 From: badoni_nk at yahoo.com (nk badoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11 Message-ID: <20030217163858.68247.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Hello I am Kishore. Could you please tell me that how can I tranfer the files from Winchester Disk having RSX-11/PDP format into a PC having Win NT operating system. Kishore From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 17 13:33:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Berg Connectors In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030217104133.0293ae90@thriftyspace.com> Message-ID: <20030217193115.41170.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Oliver wrote: > The pins for these "BERG" harmonica style connectors (we used them *way > back* for DLV11J and other connections) can still be found at > Mouser. They're a bit pricey though - about $.25 per pin in large > quantities. Mouser's part number is 649-47712-000. I ordered a few to test with my crimper - They don't do freebies on this part. :-( Hopefully they will fit. The drawing looks like the ones I used to use. > I found something that looks similar in the Digi-Key catalog (e.g. > WM2555-ND) which sells for about $.10 each in thousands... Hmm... not sure if those fit the housings or not. Given the cost of a crimp tool, though, the parts at Mouser look quite attractive. I was contemplating buying 500 or 1000 pins if these work out. Thanks for the tip. -ethan From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 17 13:38:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89 Intro References: <153D0FAADC2C90459D202D16D24A94AEAAF41B@webmail.inacom-msn.com> Message-ID: <008901c2d6bb$95d6b5a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have lots of spare parts and software and docs for the H89's. Let me know what you're looking for and perhaps we can work out a trade off-list. Jay West From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 17 14:01:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E513EAA.32077.25A7D05B@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > I whish, so we have a reason to push him out of the country an > confiscate his collection for good :) You're like the George Bush of computer collecting, except in this case you're after all the old computers of the Arabs rather than the oil ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 17 14:07:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:55 2005 Subject: Atari 400 Power Supply References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030217123159.02466b30@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <3E514050.59C53847@rain.org> The Power Supply for my Atari 400 is 9 VAC at 15.3 va., P/n CO14319. Gene Ehrich wrote: > > I need a power supply for an Atari 400 computer and have the following to > choose from. Does anyone know which if any to use with the 400: > > Atari Power Supply Model CO 14319 > IP 120vac 60hz 18.5w OP 9vac 15.3va > > Atari Power Supply Part Number C010472 > IP 120v 60hz 9w OP 9v dc 500ma > > Atari Power Supply part number C016804 > IP 120v 60hz OP 9vac 31VA > > Atari Power Supply part number C017945 > IP 120v 60hz 50w OP 9vac 31VA > > Atari Power Supply part number CA14748 > IP 120v 60hz 20w OP 15VA > > Atari Power Supply part number C016353 > IP 120v 60hz 11w OP 9v DC 500ma > for Atari 2600 > > Atari Plug In Power Supply - Part Number C061515 > IP 120vac 60hz 7.5va OP 9vac 500ma > > Atari Power Supply part number C018187 > IP 120vac 60hz 38va OP9.3vdc at 1.95A From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 17 14:21:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Berg Connectors In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030217104133.0293ae90@thriftyspace.com> Message-ID: <20030217201850.91716.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Oliver wrote: > The pins for these "BERG" harmonica style connectors (we used them *way > back* for DLV11J and other connections) can still be found at > Mouser. They're a bit pricey though - about $.25 per pin in large > quantities. Mouser's part number is 649-47712-000. After a little more research, I've discovered that Mouser's part numbers are "649" + the FCI "real" part number. FCI has a nice chart at http://www.fciconnect.com/basics/basics_america_pdf/crimptowire_contpins.pdf Allied has something at http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/catalogpages/2002/303.pdf Thanks for the initial part number... that was what I needed to kick off my search. -ethan From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Feb 17 14:28:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E513EAA.32077.25A7D05B@localhost> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030217124433.05935930@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3E50F1D6.12767.4BE3D95@localhost> Well Canada is nearby and would welcome him. The hysteria here hasn't quite reached the ame fever pitch. I of course, would be quite happy to handle custody of his collection. :^) . But, as Bob Dylan's song went, times they are a- changing, so maybe not just yet. Lawrence On 17 Feb 2003, , Hans Franke wrote: > > Hey Sellam, > > > Most of the hikackers on 9/11 were Saudi Arabian > > > nationals. The Saudis are the Uncle Tom's of the Arab > > > world. > > > Is that where you're from? > > I whish, so we have a reason to push him out of the country > an confiscate his collection for good :) > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ lgwalker@ mts.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 17 14:30:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: <3E50E72E.1070004@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > I think thats a typo, probably was supposed to read MBC, a large > west-coast HP support house. > And yes, there are lots of MBG's, my neighbor has one in his garage! Is that at all similar to an MGB? From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Feb 17 14:39:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Atari 400 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030217123159.02466b30@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <3E50F447.22950.4C7CA77@localhost> According to Michael Current's Atari 8-bit FAQ sec. 13.3 9 V AC 15.3 VA (1.7 A) Atari#CO14319 transformer: 400,800,822,850,1010,1200XL 9 V AC 18 VA (2.0 A) Atari#CA014748 transformer: 400,800,810,822,850,1010,1200XL 9 V AC 18 VA (2.0 A) Atari#CA016804 transformer: 400,800,810,822,850,1010,1200XL 9 V AC 31 VA (3.4 A) Atari#CO17945 transformer: 400,800,810,822,850,1010,1200XL,1020,1050,XF551 9 V AC 50 VA (5.6 A) Atari#CA017964 transformer: 400,800,810,822,850,1010,1200XL,1020,1050,XF551 Lawrence On 17 Feb 2003, , Gene Ehrich wrote: > I need a power supply for an Atari 400 computer and have the > following to choose from. Does anyone know which if any to > use with the 400: > > Atari Power Supply Model CO 14319 > IP 120vac 60hz 18.5w OP 9vac 15.3va > > Atari Power Supply Part Number C010472 > IP 120v 60hz 9w OP 9v dc 500ma > > Atari Power Supply part number C016804 > IP 120v 60hz OP 9vac 31VA > > Atari Power Supply part number C017945 > IP 120v 60hz 50w OP 9vac 31VA > > Atari Power Supply part number CA14748 > IP 120v 60hz 20w OP 15VA > > Atari Power Supply part number C016353 > IP 120v 60hz 11w OP 9v DC 500ma > for Atari 2600 > > Atari Plug In Power Supply - Part Number C061515 > IP 120vac 60hz 7.5va OP 9vac 500ma > > Atari Power Supply part number C018187 > IP 120vac 60hz 38va OP9.3vdc at 1.95A lgwalker@ mts.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 17 15:08:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: FAQ? Re: Why did they publish 'blank' pages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We've been through THIS one often, and recently. There are actually two questions: Q1: Why are the blank pages marked "intentionally blank"? A1: To make it clear that they are NOT blank due to duplicating errors. A2: Because saying that a page is blank by mistake would make the printer lose face. Q2: Why are there blank pages? A1: Due to the impossibility of planning accurately, and changes that might involve increasing or decreasing the number of pages, extra pages are allowed for to cover any increase. A2: Printing and binding of a section using some technologies results in sections (or "signatures") that must be multiples of a number (4, 16, etc.) Therefore, if the actual desired length is not zero modulus that multiple, there will be extra pages. A3: Certain rigid "style"s mandate that a section must ALWAYS start on a right hand, or odd numbered, page. If a section has an odd number of pages, then a blank must be added for alignment. A4: So that you'll have a place to scribble notes, other than on the margins of the printed pages. A5: An idea pushed by the paper mills (see also "paperless office") From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 17 15:12:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Why did they publish 'blank' pages In-Reply-To: <3E507A07.6040606@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Indeed, and as I sometimes take pains to point out, the spaces left > "INTENTIONALLY BLANK" are not blank at all. My preferred notation which > IIRC I first saw in an ICL manual is : "This page intentionally contains > no information" or words to that effect. But the fact that it was deliberate IS important information. From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Feb 17 15:13:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: "page left blank" Message-ID: <1ca.2f5e745.2b82a9df@aol.com> Not that it matters much, but I think it's due to the way pages are printed and bundled together into sections (graphs?). "Signatures" is the correct term for the bundle of pages and "Imposition" is the way the pages are laid out on the sheet. I spent 10 years as a printer/typesetter. In imposition, if you wanted a page left blank, you just left it blank. I think labeling "page left blank" deals more with the expectations of the user or reader of the book than of the printing process involved. Paxton Astoria, OR From kth at srv.net Mon Feb 17 15:28:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11 References: <20030217163858.68247.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E5158DA.9070800@srv.net> nk badoni wrote: >Hello > > >I am Kishore. > >Could you please tell me that how can I tranfer the >files from Winchester Disk having RSX-11/PDP format >into a PC having Win NT operating system. > >Kishore > > > Look at kermit. Usually does what you want. You will need two versions: one for RSX, and one for the PC. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 17 15:36:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: <3E4E83FD.10905@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Win95 does require at least a 386SX. (with 4M RAM) > I thought Win95 required a 386DX-33? Also, I think, that is only the > osr1. I think OSR2 has higher requirements. Win95 WILL run on a 12MHz 386SX. But it needs more than 4M RAM if you want to leave "safe mode". Some others have been successful with only 4M, but our experience was that it would only do safe mode until we added more RAM. MICROS~1 may make lots of SUGGESTIONS for it. There is nothing in WINDOZE that needs a specific speed. But some "APPLICATIONS" (programs) that you run might need speed for animation, music, etc that require real time speed. There is no code in WINDOZE that can tell the difference between a 386SX (16 bit external bus) and 386DX (32 bit external bus). Telling the difference between them in software is fairly difficult (do misaligned double words fetch at the same speed, etc.) 'Course to get "acceptable performance" from Windoze requires at least a 12GHz Pentium-9, with 4G RAM. From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Feb 17 15:57:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E50F1D6.12767.4BE3D95@localhost> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030217124433.05935930@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3E50F1D6.12767.4BE3D95@localhost> Message-ID: <20030217222105.GB8287@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Lawrence Walker, from writings of Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 02:29:42PM -0600: > Well Canada is nearby and would welcome him. The > hysteria here hasn't quite reached the ame fever pitch. > I of course, would be quite happy to handle custody of > his collection. :^) . So would a lot of other people... and that would cause another war, just what we need, World War ClassicCmp. Imagine someone flying a fleet of remote control lawn chairs, attached to lots of helium-filled over-sized beach balls, carrying loads of unwanted '386 PCs, and dropping them on some of the enemies en route to Sellam's collection. That's just on of the many scenarios that I can picture. Hmmm... ya know, that presents an interesting idea for 4th of July celebrations involving the transport of hot tar through the air and convertables being driven in the parades transporting politicians... -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 17 16:05:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030217222105.GB8287@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > So would a lot of other people... and that would cause another war, > just what we need, World War ClassicCmp. Imagine someone flying a > fleet of remote control lawn chairs, attached to lots of helium-filled > over-sized beach balls, carrying loads of unwanted '386 PCs, and > dropping them on some of the enemies en route to Sellam's collection. But if you drop HP disk drives, instead, then your "ammo" will be reusable indefinitely. From chu at verizon.net Mon Feb 17 16:09:00 2003 From: chu at verizon.net (chu@verizon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Help with my PDP 11/73 Message-ID: <20030217220635.IMTO1680.pop018.verizon.net@[172.17.10.210]> OK!!! The null modem that I just bought must have been bad. I got another one from a different vendor and I can talk to my processor. I am able to get into dialog mode, setup mode, and into ODT. I runs the self test loop correctly. However, when I try to boot either DU0 or MU0 the machine gets hung up. My assumption is that the disk may have been erased before sale and the tape cartridge I got is probably blank. Where can I get a copy of XXDP on a TK50 cartridge? Or is there another way I can determine if my two peripherals are working? TIA, DAve Chu From fauradon at frontiernet.net Mon Feb 17 16:27:00 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: still have the androbot robot? References: <000401c2d630$2a57da10$6401a8c0@DesktopSouth> Message-ID: <001d01c2d6e3$cd302540$0264640a@auradon.com> Yeah I still have my topo II. Why? Francois Minnesota ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Bakaleinikoff" To: Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 6:56 PM Subject: still have the androbot robot? > Ran across an old thread reguarding a androbot topo robot.. Is it still > around? From fauradon at frontiernet.net Mon Feb 17 16:28:00 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question References: Message-ID: <002301c2d6e4$0450ffe0$0264640a@auradon.com> Ha ha real time in windows, that's a funny one... > > MICROS~1 may make lots of SUGGESTIONS for it. There is nothing in WINDOZE > that needs a specific speed. But some "APPLICATIONS" (programs) that you > run might need speed for animation, music, etc that require real time > speed. From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Feb 17 16:39:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: still have the androbot robot? References: <20030217074743.P13120-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3E5164ED.5020802@tiac.net> Definately not a Cherry 2000. Glad someone got the pun though! Bill Richman wrote: >You're sure that's not a Cherry 2000? ;-) I've got an Androbot Topo >shell (no base, motors, or electronics) that I'd be willing to part with. > >On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > >>An androbot? >> >>Nope, none here, but I do have a 'cherry' HERO 2000 on-hand. >> >>David Bakaleinikoff wrote: >> >>>Ran across an old thread reguarding a androbot topo robot.. Is it still >>>around? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 17 16:44:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Help with my PDP 11/73 In-Reply-To: <20030217220635.IMTO1680.pop018.verizon.net@[172.17.10.210]> Message-ID: <20030217224155.55215.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- chu@verizon.net wrote: > OK!!! > The null modem that I just bought > must have been bad. I got another > one from a different vendor and I > can talk to my processor. Good start. > I am able to get into dialog mode, > setup mode, and into ODT. Perfect. > I runs the self test loop correctly. > However, when I try to boot > either DU0 or MU0 the machine gets > hung up. Do you have a complete grant chain? Gaps in the backplane will also cause that behavior. You need all the cards "next" to each other (according to the routing of your grant signals which differs, depending on which backplane you have). If you have a BA23, your grant goes something like this... 1 A-B v 2 A-B v 3 A-B -> C-D v 4 A-B <- C-D v 5 A-B -> C-D v 6 A-B <- C-D ...etc., down to slot 9. Other backplanes are different (some all sinusoidal, some straight down). > My assumption is that the disk may have been erased before > sale and the tape cartridge I got is probably blank. Possibly. If it just hangs when you boot to MU0, though, without moving the tape, it may not be the media. No way to tell about the disk at this stage. > Where can I get a copy of XXDP on > a TK50 cartridge? Or is there another > way I can determine if my two peripherals > are working? Don't know. You _might_ be able to find XXDP on RX50 media (or at least disk image files of the RX50 media), but it sounds like you don't _have_ a floppy drive on your machine. -ethan From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Feb 17 16:45:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals References: <200302170430.XAA673805@shell.TheWorld.com> <3E50E72E.1070004@tiac.net> <3E5127CB.4010800@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3E516673.4060104@tiac.net> Doh! All I know is the car has built-in rust protection, it won't start if it rains or snows! Chad Fernandez wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > >> I think thats a typo, probably was supposed to read MBC, a large >> west-coast HP support house. >> >> And yes, there are lots of MBG's, my neighbor has one in his garage! > > > That's not an MBG, it's an MGB :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From dittman at dittman.net Mon Feb 17 18:15:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 17, 2003 11:55:16 AM Message-ID: <200302180012.h1I0Cb75012191@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I whish, so we have a reason to push him out of the country an > > confiscate his collection for good :) > > You're like the George Bush of computer collecting, except in this case > you're after all the old computers of the Arabs rather than the oil ;) Well, it would be a good idea to get the oil out of the hands of the Arabs since they are using the profits to finance terrorism. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 17 18:34:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: L5-30 Receptacle or Adapter in US In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411021719.20030217183223@subatomix.com> On Monday, February 17, 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> I'm looking for someone in the US with a L5-30 receptacle > > That should be something you can find at your local hardware or electrical > supply store. Oh. Duh. I wasn't thinking. I had just finished digging through eBay, so I wasn't in a local store mood. :-) > Be aware that you are asking to plug a 30-amp device into a standard wall > outlet ... those types of receptacles usually only accomodate up to 20 > amps. I sincerely appreciate your concern, but I have already thought of that. The circuit is 20 amps, dedicated. The machine (PDP-11/34) won't draw that much. I feel that I am safe. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 17 18:38:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11 In-Reply-To: <3E5158DA.9070800@srv.net> References: <20030217163858.68247.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <3E5158DA.9070800@srv.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > nk badoni wrote: > > >Could you please tell me that how can I tranfer the > >files from Winchester Disk having RSX-11/PDP format > >into a PC having Win NT operating system. > > > > > Look at kermit. Usually does what you want. > You are making the assumption that there is some kind of DEC machine wrapped around the subject disk. What will your advice be if all he has is the disk itself? What is the nature of the 'files'? Data only? Compiled programs? Might be a bit more complicated than even Kermit can handle... More info is needed... Cheers John From chd_1 at nktelco.net Mon Feb 17 19:44:00 2003 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Help with my PDP 11/73 References: <20030217224155.55215.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E518F86.5080007@nktelco.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- chu@verizon.net wrote: > > >>I runs the self test loop correctly. >>However, when I try to boot >>either DU0 or MU0 the machine gets >>hung up. >> >> > >Do you have a complete grant chain? Gaps in the backplane >will also cause that behavior. You need all the cards "next" >to each other (according to the routing of your grant signals >which differs, depending on which backplane you have). > >If you have a BA23, your grant goes something like this... > 0 A-B V >1 A-B > v >2 A-B > v >3 A-B -> C-D > v >4 A-B <- C-D > v >5 A-B -> C-D > v >6 A-B <- C-D > >...etc., down to slot 9. Other backplanes are different (some all >sinusoidal, some straight down). > I think there are *3* straight down slots before the first *serpentine* slot in the BA23. :-) >-ethan > > -chuck From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Feb 17 20:04:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11 References: <20030217163858.68247.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E51942F.FD61663@compsys.to> >nk badoni wrote: > I am Kishore. > > Could you please tell me that how can I tranfer the > files from Winchester Disk having RSX-11/PDP format > into a PC having Win NT operating system. Jerome Fine replies: First, I suggest that the question is the real problem. A real DEC PDP-11 running RSX-11 uses disk drives that have a LLF (Low Level Format), but the FILE STRUCTURE is unique to RSX-11. On a PC, the disk drives, IDE or SCSI, will also have an LLF, but the FILE STRUCTURE is the one used by WNT (sorry I can't remember the name). The real problem is that in the DEC world, format refers to the hardware while the FILE STRUCTURE is unique to the operating system. In the PC world, the LLF and the FILE STRUCTURE are lumped into one word called "format" - which certain unnamed companies use to preclude recognition of disk drives which do not have their own FILE STRUCTURE. In Windows 98 SE that I run, I get around the problem by tricking W98SE, but I digress. As mentioned, one way is by using Kermit - usually over a serial line, but perhaps over ethernet - I don't know enough about that aspect to comment since I chose a third way on my PDP-11 system. I use a SCSI host adapter (I have a CQD 220/TM) which uses a Sony SMO S-501. I also use an Adaptec AHA2940AU on a PC and run the Full Ersatz-11. There is also a second Sony SMO S-501 on the PC. Up to 300 MBytes at a time can be transferred to the PC. You did not provide sufficient detail about cost or final usage, so I can't help much more than these suggestions. Plus, I don't know RSX-11 very well, although I do run RT-11 all the time. PLUS, you did not say if you have a complete PDP-11 or just the RL02 or other disk drive and maybe just the media. If you have just a SCSI disk drive, that is actually an easy solution. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Feb 17 20:14:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11 In-Reply-To: <3E51942F.FD61663@compsys.to> References: <20030217163858.68247.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <3E51942F.FD61663@compsys.to> Message-ID: <1045534339.29349.33.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Mon, 2003-02-17 at 21:02, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >nk badoni wrote: > > > I am Kishore. > > > > Could you please tell me that how can I tranfer the > > files from Winchester Disk having RSX-11/PDP format > > into a PC having Win NT operating system. > > PLUS, you did not say if you have a complete PDP-11 or just > the RL02 or other disk drive and maybe just the media. If you > have just a SCSI disk drive, that is actually an easy solution. > I'm betting that the "Winchester" means the drive is one of the MFM drives, such as the RD-54, etc. I'm also betting, based on the wording of the question (he asks how to xfer the file from disk itself instead of the system), that Kishore does not have access to a working PDP-11. So, Probably the only viable option would be to send the drive to someone who does have a working system with the appropriate controller and get them to transfer the files to a CDROM, etc. I'm sure there are many on the list (including me) who would be willing to do this, provided we had the right controller. I guess what we really need to know is the model number of the disk itself. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 17 20:15:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 1 Level II In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Feb 16, 3 00:07:18 am Message-ID: > Tony wrote: > > > Good! If you have the disk controller in the system (read : If you have > > the Expansion Interface connected), then the machine tries to boot the > > disk _before clearing the screen_. If you don't have a disk in the drive, > > then you get a screen of garbage. > > > > I should've said that because the previous owner showed me the machine gave > a garbage screen I didn't bother getting anything other than the machine and > monitor out of their boxes - no point testing the rest when the machine > won't even power up correctly :) Ah, OK.... You say it's an L2 machine. Does it have the ROM in 2 off 24 pin chips on the mainboard (one is 8K, the other 4K, and there are some cut-n-jumper mods), or is it old enough to have the extra PCB with 3 24 pin chips (eack 4K) and the address decoder? > > So far I've got the problem down to probably bad address/data lines at the > ROMs. I found a link to the Tech Ref for the Model 1 - excellent book, given Or ROM failure itself? > the writing style it could've been written by me, same sense of humour - and Indeed. The introduction is rather amusing... (As you may have guessed, I have this manual...) > the 'remove and test' method leads me down the bad ROM path - without the > ROMs in the machine I get a screenful of @9, which indicates the CPU and > video RAM are happy. Be warned that much of the tech manual is written assuming you have a L1 machine. I don't know what L2 does if it can't find any RAM, for example... With the ROMs pulled, all the address lines should be toggling (as the CPU tries to continually push 39 00 onto the stack). You can check this. > This I now know.....good job the tests indicate the RAM is happy! I guessed > when the RAM turned out to be 16 pin chips instead of the 2114's 18..... Yes, the M1 uses DRAMs for the main memory. Either 4K or 16K parts. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 17 20:15:34 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: <005901c2d629$e5b3bc40$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Feb 16, 3 08:11:33 pm Message-ID: > > Please don't. Yes, please remove off-topic SPAM, but adverts related to > > classic computers, commercial or not, should be allowed here provided > > the same advert doesn't start appearing too often. > > My initial reaction was actually fairly difficult for me, as I know and like > several of the people at Arraid. > > On the one hand, it's obviously on-topic as it lets others here know that > there are modern drive replacements for systems we all would like to keep > running. On the other hand, their products are generally well outside the > price range of the home hobbyist, so not sure how much it helps us. Thus, my Sure, I am not going to get one of these drive replacements for any of my own systems (I can't afford it, I do have the time to maintain the old drives, and I enjoy doing so anyway). On the other hand, I (and I guess many others here) have been asked for advice/work on commercially-needed classic computers. Knowing such a product exists could be useful to the owners of such machines, and we're the best people to tell said owners. > impression is that the post wasn't targeted at the listmembers, but rather > at sales prospects the listmembers may know. Tony asked how this post was Agreed... On the other hand, I got the impression that the poster of this advert had at least taken the time to read the list and/or find out what we really do here. That instantly raises the message well above the 'spam' level. > So, if on-topic SPAM is allowed here as Tony requests above... guess we > allow posting by crisis, and MBG, and keyways, and imsai.net, oh, and all > the scrap dealers... but it's ok as long as it doesn't appear too often. Ok, How would you feel if a scrap dealer posted 'I've just got a [Straight-8 | Altair | PERQ 2 | HP2100A | Apple 1 | insert your favourite classic] in, which I will sell for 10% above the scrap metal value'. Is that spam, or a darn good lead? Nobody wants this list to turn into just adverts, but I think I'd find _occassionaly_ posts like that less annoying that E-bay trailers from regular list members. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 17 20:16:02 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: HP-IB Mass Storage Emulation (Help) In-Reply-To: <200302171214.HAA18097@king.mcs.drexel.edu> from "Vassilis Prevelakis" at Feb 17, 3 07:14:16 am Message-ID: > I have been working for some time on a pet project to make a mass > storage emulator for HP-IB systems. Given the massive improvement in > capacity that has taken place the past 10 years, most mass storage > devices from the 80s look pathetic. However they're often large enough for the machines they were designed to work with... Consider the 9114 disk drive (HPIL interface). It fits about 630K on a 3.5" floppy disk. That's a _massive_ amount of storage for the HP41 (or even HP71, HP75) calculators, to the extent that all the programs from the HP solution books for a particular machine will fit on 1 or 2 disks. > So I looked hard at the HP-IB bus itself (using the schematics from the > Series 80 adaptor) and it looks like a simple parallel bus. So why use Tbe HPIB spec (or IEEE-488) is certainly published and available. It is an 8 bit parallel bus, although it's not particularly simple. There are a total of 16 lines : 8 data lines (bidirectional) 3 handshake lines (DAV (Data AVailable), from talker to listener(s) and NFRD (Not Ready For Data), NDAC (Not Data ACknowledge) from listern(s) to talker) 5 control lines (ATN (Attention), EOI (End Or Indentify), SRQ (Service ReQuest), IFC (InterFace Clear), REN (Remote ENable)). There are 3 classes of device on the bus : Controllers (which send bus commands, select other devices, etc), Talkers (which output data) and Listeners (which input data). A particular device may be more than one of these -- a computer is likely to be able to be a Controller, Talker and Listener, a disk drive a Talker and Listener (but not a controller) and a printer a Listener (only). > a custom card, if the PC parallel port can be adapted to drive an HP-IB > bus. There have been many devices which implemented the IEEE-488 bus (GPIB, HPIB) using a standard parallel interface chip like the 6821 or 6522 together with buffers. Sometimes some TTL (or PLD-based) state machines were added to handle the low level side of the handshake, but this is _not_ required. The handshake system was carefully designed so that a relatively slow device (like a software driven PIA chip) can handle it without missing changes of the signals. HP themselves often used a simple microcontroller (8048 series) + a buffer chip to do it. The handshake was handled entirely in software on the microcontroller. I don't know if a PC (bidirectional) parallel printer port can do it. Possibly it can, but there may not be enough inputs/outputs for all the control lines. Cut-down GPIB implelmentations (e.g. to drive a plotter, with the PC as controller) have certainly worked on the parallel port. Even if you can't use the standard parallel port, it would be fairly easy to make an add-on card with the necessary logic on it. And you wouldn't have to use a difficult-to-find GPIB interface chip (many of which are long out of production) > If the PC parallel port can be used, then I can port the NetBSD drivers > to use the parallel port, rather than the HP 300 HP-IB interface. The > NetBSD drivers also support SS-80 compatible mass storage devices, > which means that the implementation can be verified against a real > HP-IB mass storage device. If this works than the drivers will have to The CS/80 command specification was also published, although it's not easy to find (I _do_ have it somewhere). Let's keep this on the list (it's on-topic). I've fooled around with the GPIB bus a bit (to the extent of making my own devices using TTL/PALs, not the special interface chips) and might be able to give some help. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 17 20:16:30 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: TLC Ideas for LA120 Keyboard? In-Reply-To: <1957228323.20030217005435@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Feb 17, 3 00:54:35 am Message-ID: > Well, my DEC LA120 is almost perfectly operational. Its only problem is a > set of keys that do not work when pressed. I'd like to fix that. > > What I see when I remove the keycap is a square plastic housing that slides > vertically within a larger square plastic housing. The smaller housing > slides down when one presses a key. A spring below the smaller square This was a very common design of keyboard at one time. DEC used it (VT100, LA120, etc). So did HP (HP85, etc). And Radio Shack (early Model 1s). > housing pushes the housing back up when the key is no longer pressed. Up > through the smaller housing shoot two electrical contacts. The contacts are > fixed and do not slide with the housing. When the key is up, a plastic bar > across the middle of the smaller housing holds the two contacts apart. When If it's the standard design, one contact is sold and fairly stiff, the other has the end cut into about 4 fingers, and is much more flexible. > the key moves down, the bar moves down and no longer holds the contacts > apart. The contacts touch and complete a circuit, and the LA120 senses a > keystroke. [...] > (1) Tiny space between the contacts > (2) Nonconductive material (corrosion? oxidation?) on the contacts > > Two keys were fixed by using the screwdriver to bend the contacts toward > each other in the hopes of creating more force pushing them towards each > other. The ENTER key does not seem to be responding well to that treatment. > One thing is for sure. All this stuff is so tiny and hard to get to that it > is difficult to work on. OK, remove the keycap (but you've done that). The plunger (inner housing to you) will also pull out if you grip it with pliers. HP claim you should always use a new one when reassmbling, but it's not really necessary. When you've got that out, remove the spring too. Then try cleaning the contacts in place. Take a piece of card (a bit of Hollerith card is ideal if you have some). Soak it in propan-2-ol and carefully work it between the contacts. After doing that check that the contacts test as shorted on the track side of the PCB (work on one switch at a time so as not to have sneak paths through other dismantled switches -- a dismanteld switch is, of course 'closed'). If it still doesnt work, remove the contacts. Desolder them from the PCB and pull out the stiffer contact with pliers, then _carefully_ remove the other one. Clean them, bend the 'figered' contact slightly to increase the pressure between them. Then put them back. There was a special tool for this, but it's not essential. -tony From rcini at optonline.net Mon Feb 17 20:26:00 2003 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: WTD: TM100 floppy drives Message-ID: Hello, all: Well, my Northstar is up and running but I want to replace the flaky floppy drives with two working Tandon drives. I need the double-sided TM100-2A version, commonly used in the PC/XT. If anyone has these, please contact me off-list. Thanks a lot. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Feb 17 20:33:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Fw: FREE VAXstation 4000-60 Message-ID: <016501c2d6f5$fee07650$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Sykes" Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:24 PM Subject: FREE VAXstation 4000-60 > > If anyone has an interest in the following old system, let me know ASAP. > I have to be out of my office by EOM and have nowhere to put this. > > Hardware........: VAXstation 4000-60 > Operating System: VMS Ver.V6.1 > *Full License set* > Main Memory (32.00Mb) > 2-RZ56 (1299174 blocks each) > 1-RZ55 (649040 blocks) > 1-RZ24 (409792 blocks) > 2-TK50Z > 1-RD40 > 1-TLZ04 > 1-VRT19DA (VT200 style RGB sync) > > Includes All cables > > > -- > > Have VMS, Will Travel > Wire paladin, San Francisco > > (paladinATalphaseDOTcom) From pzachary at sasquatch.com Mon Feb 17 20:48:00 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: L5-30 Receptacle or Adapter in US References: <20030217180001.7236.58293.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E519F16.229608B3@sasquatch.com> Message: 9 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 07:21:25 -0600 From: Jeffrey Sharp To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Wanted: L5-30 Receptacle or Adapter in US Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org I'm looking for someone in the US with a L5-30 receptacle or an adapter so that I can plug my L5-30-plugged DEC 861PC Power Controller into a standard wall outlet. Thanks! -- Jeffrey Sharp it is really simple to replace the l5-30 with a standard 5-15 or 5-20 for home use anf just keep the plug around "in case" if you really must have a dongle, you should be able to get one from MSC.com Pavl_ From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Feb 17 20:59:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: RS-232 Problem (Configuration ?) In-Reply-To: References: <1957228323.20030217005435@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Feb 17, 3 00:54:35 am Message-ID: <3E512F9B.22212.AFCB82@localhost> Let me start off by saying "I hate RS-232". Anyway, now that that's out of the way, I am having a problem with an RS-232 interface on an IMSAI SIO board. I've been debugging a North Star drive and I was having problems with it booting (DOS 2) in my IMSAI. I would get the "*" prompt but OS would not recognize my Soroc terminal input. At first I thought it might be buggy code on my DOS floppy. Anyway, to make a long story short, I have multiple of everything and have ruled out everything but something to do with my RS-232 configuration (I guess). I have 2 SIO board and both behave the same way. I'm documenting what I have here, in case someone sees something wrong that I've overlooked. BTW, this was previously working without any different configuration or hardware, with the exception of the RS- 232 cable from the Soroc to the IMSAI. This is a brand new cable that was working just a few weeks ago so I'm having a hard time believing there is anything wrong with this cable. I have only one, if you can believe that. I'm going to get another this weekend, if I have not figured this problem out by then. Anyway... I'm using Port A (on the SIO) and have configured the A3 Jumper to have TD Pin 1 to Pin 15 RD RD Pin 2 to Pin 16 TD RTS Pin 4 to Pin 12 CTS CTS Pin 5 to Pin 13 RTS DTR Pin 7 to Pin 9 DSR DSR Pin 8 to Pin 10 DTR By the way, the SIO manual shows DTR-DSR as through straight throuh in stead of crossover, as shown above. Seems that it should be crossed over like the others. In any case, I have tried both ways but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm using a straight through DB-25 cable from my Soroc to my IMSAI. I'm using the following CIN and COUT routines. 2900 DB03 CIN IN STAT 2902 E602 ANI IBIT 2904 CA0029 JZ CIN 2907 DB02 IN DATA 2909 E67F ANI 7FH 290B C9 RET 290C DB03 COUT IN STAT 290E E601 ANI OBIT 2910 CA0C29 JZ COUT 2913 78 MOV A,B 2914 D302 OUT DATA 2915 C9 RET Areas I'm wondering about. 1) Is the A3 header correct for the IMSAI as the computer end and the Soroc as the terminal. 3 pairs crossed over. It does write to the Terminal properly and when I press the Break Key, I get an echo from the IMSAI of *?, which seems normal. I have tested the input routine, which is part of the DOS input routines, and was working previously, by modifying it to display the status to the programmed output on the IMSAI with this code. 0000 DB03 CIN IN STAT 0002 DBFF OUT FFH (programmed output port) 0004 E602 ANI IBIT 0006 CA0000 JZ CIN 0009 DB02 IN DATA 290B E67F ANI 7FH 290D C30000 JMP CIN Seems that this should show whatever is read in the status port for Port A. But when executed, the status never changes after I tap any key. My system is behaving as if it just can't receive any data from the terminal. It's driving me buggy as this is a relatively simple problem. Like I said, I have multiple SIO and they all behave the same. I even tried another terminal and get the same results. I have also even tried different ribbon cable from the SIO to the RS- 232 connector. Anyone see something bonehead that I overlooked? Thanks, From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 17 21:04:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Fw: FREE VAXstation 4000-60 In-Reply-To: <016501c2d6f5$fee07650$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20030218030208.19804.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Sykes" > Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:24 PM > Subject: FREE VAXstation 4000-60 > > If anyone has an interest in the following old system, let me know > > ASAP... > > I have to be out of my office by EOM and have nowhere to put this. > > > > Hardware........: VAXstation 4000-60 . . . > > Have VMS, Will Travel > > Wire paladin, San Francisco I just saw the message (that and I'm 1800 miles from SF)... did anyone get this? -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 17 21:07:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Help with my PDP 11/73 In-Reply-To: <3E518F86.5080007@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <20030218030501.20144.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Charles H. Dickman" wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > >Do you have a complete grant chain? . . . > >If you have a BA23, your grant goes something like this... > > I think there are *3* straight down slots before the first *serpentine* > slot in the BA23. :-) There are. I know that, even if I didn't draw it well. Thanks for catching that. -ethan From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Feb 17 21:10:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180012.h1I0Cb75012191@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 17, 2003 11:55:16 AM Message-ID: <3E514FD8.4737.F46940@localhost> Bleeeeccch !! That is like a deliberate troll or by someone too brainless to be allowed access to a computer and intelligent commentary. Reminds me of the bully in the schoolyard, " you're a jew and killed Christ so I'm gonna take all your marbles" Not all the world believes the US has the right to control it all. And this list is world-wide so you may not get the easy acquiescence of your US tv-news watching buddies. Don't think you can throw out crap like this unopposed. I might remind you also that the oppressive Saudi- Arabian regime is the US's most closely alligned arab client state in the mid-east next to Kuwait. Bin Lauden's Saudi-Arabian fortunes came from your gas expenses, he was financed in the Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan by the US via Pakistan, an oppressive nuclear bomb possessing oligarchy, and Hassan was supplied with chemical agents and stuff like Anthrax by the US back when he was their buddy and Iran the enemy. It's well documented. Just stop taking your views from the managed corporate press and approach it like you would investigating an old computer. Unless you take your computer info from the domestic media. Microsoft, our benefactor. This is just racist crap to justify dreams of world domination by retrograde southerners, still pissed off they lost the civil war and had to give up slavery, or fundamentalists with their own scary visions of an inquisition-based new world order. At one time the arab world was the most advanced, just, and civilized center of the world and gave us most of the basis for later advances in science, and artists such as Omar Khayam and others like the Sufis while Europe was still wallowing in the horrendous middle ages. Their contributions equalled or surpassed ancient Greece. Try reading history. There were millions of demonstrators around the world, as well as several million in the US this past weekend, that disagree with the Bush administration's or the CNN spindoctor's take on this as well as millions of others who either don't go to demos, or up here in Canada didn't brave the subzero temperatures which still resulted in 100,000 in Montreal at -29C and 80,000 in Toronto at -20. and there were religious,union, youth groups of all ages and in all areas. And the same was true in these US. Let's keep this ideological crap off the list and then I don't have to further the OTism with non-ameriKKKan responses and diatribes. My apologies to the list but unopposed statements becomes truth. My daddy always said don't discuss religion or politics in polite company. Lawrence On 17 Feb 2003, , Eric Dittman wrote: > > > I whish, so we have a reason to push him out of the > > > country an confiscate his collection for good :) > > > > You're like the George Bush of computer collecting, except > > in this case you're after all the old computers of the > > Arabs rather than the oil ;) > > Well, it would be a good idea to get the oil out of the > hands of the Arabs since they are using the profits to > finance terrorism. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check > out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ lgwalker@ mts.net From dittman at dittman.net Mon Feb 17 21:22:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E514FD8.4737.F46940@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 17, 2003 09:10:48 PM Message-ID: <200302180319.h1I3JXD6013308@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Bleeeeccch !! That is like a deliberate troll or by > someone too brainless to be allowed access to a > computer and intelligent commentary. Reminds me > of the bully in the schoolyard, " you're a jew and killed > Christ so I'm gonna take all your marbles" Not all the > world believes the US has the right to control it all. > And this list is world-wide so you may not get the easy > acquiescence of your US tv-news watching buddies. > Don't think you can throw out crap like this unopposed. No, it was sarcasm, pointing to Sellam's Bush-bashing. Sellam seems to take every chance he gets to bash Bush and the administration. I was making a point. > On 17 Feb 2003, , Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > I whish, so we have a reason to push him out of the > > > > country an confiscate his collection for good :) > > > > > > You're like the George Bush of computer collecting, except > > > in this case you're after all the old computers of the > > > Arabs rather than the oil ;) > > > > Well, it would be a good idea to get the oil out of the > > hands of the Arabs since they are using the profits to > > finance terrorism. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check > > out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > > > lgwalker@ mts.net > -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Feb 17 21:26:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: RS-232 Problem (Configuration ?) Message-ID: <200302180324.TAA15163@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Mike Davis" > >Let me start off by saying "I hate RS-232". Anyway, now that that's >out of the way, I am having a problem with an RS-232 interface on an >IMSAI SIO board. > >I've been debugging a North Star drive and I was having problems with >it booting (DOS 2) in my IMSAI. I would get the "*" prompt but OS >would not recognize my Soroc terminal input. At first I thought it >might be buggy code on my DOS floppy. > >Anyway, to make a long story short, I have multiple of everything and >have ruled out everything but something to do with my RS-232 >configuration (I guess). I have 2 SIO board and both behave the same >way. > >I'm documenting what I have here, in case someone sees something >wrong that I've overlooked. BTW, this was previously working without >any different configuration or hardware, with the exception of the RS- >232 cable from the Soroc to the IMSAI. This is a brand new cable >that was working just a few weeks ago so I'm having a hard time >believing there is anything wrong with this cable. I have only one, >if you can believe that. I'm going to get another this weekend, if I >have not figured this problem out by then. > >Anyway... > >I'm using Port A (on the SIO) and have configured the A3 Jumper to >have > >TD Pin 1 to Pin 15 RD >RD Pin 2 to Pin 16 TD >RTS Pin 4 to Pin 12 CTS >CTS Pin 5 to Pin 13 RTS >DTR Pin 7 to Pin 9 DSR >DSR Pin 8 to Pin 10 DTR > >By the way, the SIO manual shows DTR-DSR as through straight throuh >in stead of crossover, as shown above. Seems that it should be >crossed over like the others. In any case, I have tried both ways >but it doesn't seem to make any difference. > >I'm using a straight through DB-25 cable from my Soroc to my IMSAI. > >I'm using the following CIN and COUT routines. > >2900 DB03 CIN IN STAT >2902 E602 ANI IBIT >2904 CA0029 JZ CIN >2907 DB02 IN DATA >2909 E67F ANI 7FH >290B C9 RET > >290C DB03 COUT IN STAT >290E E601 ANI OBIT >2910 CA0C29 JZ COUT >2913 78 MOV A,B >2914 D302 OUT DATA >2915 C9 RET > >Areas I'm wondering about. > >1) Is the A3 header correct for the IMSAI as the computer end and the >Soroc as the terminal. 3 pairs crossed over. It does write to the >Terminal properly and when I press the Break Key, I get an echo from >the IMSAI of *?, which seems normal. > >I have tested the input routine, which is part of the DOS input >routines, and was working previously, by modifying it to display the >status to the programmed output on the IMSAI with this code. > >0000 DB03 CIN IN STAT >0002 DBFF OUT FFH (programmed output port) >0004 E602 ANI IBIT >0006 CA0000 JZ CIN >0009 DB02 IN DATA >290B E67F ANI 7FH >290D C30000 JMP CIN Hi There may already be a status in the port, that maybe why you see no change. You need to put a dummy read first. This will cause the drop of alternate characters when working right but this is for debug. Try: CIN IN DATA CIN1 IN STAT OUT FFH ANI IBIT JZ CIN1 IN DATA ANI 7FH JMP CIN If you don't see any change, try some of the other ports, near by for STAT, like 0 , 1 or 2. If that fails, you could be having a problem with the serial lines someplace. You need to check the levels on the serial chip inputs. Dwight > >Seems that this should show whatever is read in the status port for >Port A. But when executed, the status never changes after I tap any >key. > >My system is behaving as if it just can't receive any data from the >terminal. It's driving me buggy as this is a relatively simple >problem. Like I said, I have multiple SIO and they all behave the >same. I even tried another terminal and get the same results. I >have also even tried different ribbon cable from the SIO to the RS- >232 connector. > >Anyone see something bonehead that I overlooked? > >Thanks, From jplist at kiwigeek.com Mon Feb 17 21:30:00 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: EMC2 Orion Message-ID: Greetings folks; Picked up an EMC2 Orion the other day. Well. Someone else picked it up for me, I'm supposed to get it on Saturday... The generosity of others. Anyone else have one of these? Anything I should know about them before I power it up for the first time? To be honest, I don't even know what kind of interface it uses... On the upside it comes with the Service and Technical manuals, so I shouldn't be at a loss for useful (I hope?) documentation. My thanks for any info you chaps and ladies can provide; JP From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Feb 17 21:35:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180319.h1I3JXD6013308@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <3E514FD8.4737.F46940@localhost> <200302180319.h1I3JXD6013308@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20030218035946.GB9232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Eric Dittman, from writings of Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 09:19:33PM -0600: > No, it was sarcasm, pointing to Sellam's Bush-bashing. Gee... isn't that comment a little extreme? I thought he was just making use of his horticultural abilities from his keyboard, verbally pruning a Shrub... -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Feb 17 21:41:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: RS-232 Problem (Configuration ?) In-Reply-To: <200302180324.TAA15163@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200302180324.TAA15163@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20030218040551.GC9232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> >From: "Mike Davis" >Let me start off by saying "I hate RS-232". Anyway, now that that's >out of the way, I am having a problem with an RS-232 interface on an >IMSAI SIO board. [...] >Anyone see something bonehead that I overlooked? A breakout box? :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dittman at dittman.net Mon Feb 17 21:48:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030218035946.GB9232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 17, 2003 10:59:46 PM Message-ID: <200302180345.h1I3jsFr013604@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > No, it was sarcasm, pointing to Sellam's Bush-bashing. > > Gee... isn't that comment a little extreme? I thought he was just > making use of his horticultural abilities from his keyboard, verbally > pruning a Shrub... He was doing yet more of his Bush-bashing. Not Shrub. The President of the United States is named Bush. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 17 21:57:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Help with my PDP 11/73 In-Reply-To: <3E518F86.5080007@nktelco.net> References: <20030217224155.55215.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> <3E518F86.5080007@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <9813203695.20030217215525@subatomix.com> On Monday, February 17, 2003, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > 0 A-B > V >> 1 A-B >> v >> 2 A-B >> v >> 3 A-B -> C-D >> v >> 4 A-B <- C-D >> v >> 5 A-B -> C-D >> v >> 6 A-B <- C-D For a decent Qbus primer, see here: http://telnet.hu/hamster/dr/qbus.html It seems to be loading quite slowly ATM. Good luck. -- Jeffrey Sharp From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 17 22:21:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180345.h1I3jsFr013604@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <20030218035946.GB9232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030217230146.05750df0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Eric, And he's a president that's doing a good job. I think he portrays a "simple country boy" persona, but in actuality, I think there's a whole lot more to him than he publicaly lets on. Like a poker player, he holds his cards closely. And his father was an excellent president too. He "inherited" a national economic situation from the Reagan years ( and Ronald Reagan did good things too ) that couldn't be turned around quickly ( a national economy has incredible mass and inertia ), so he bore the blame for it and lost to Clinton. There's a whole lot more going on in the circles of national gov't. and national defense than they can let be openly disclosed to the world, for national defense and national security reasons. At 09:45 PM 2/17/03 -0600, you wrote: > > > No, it was sarcasm, pointing to Sellam's Bush-bashing. > > > > Gee... isn't that comment a little extreme? I thought he was just > > making use of his horticultural abilities from his keyboard, verbally > > pruning a Shrub... > >He was doing yet more of his Bush-bashing. Not Shrub. The >President of the United States is named Bush. >-- >Eric Dittman >dittman@dittman.net >Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From n8uhn at yahoo.com Mon Feb 17 22:37:01 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: What computer is this front panel for? Message-ID: <20030218043509.92910.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Sellam wrote: Never heard of an IV/60 or IV/80, only IV/70 and IV/90 (I have the latter). What were the '60 and 80'? i have the rack from the iv 60 - the cover that hides the rack front is still on it and has sys iv 60 written on it. the the sys 460 is a two rack system - 1 rack had the diablo disk drive, hard drive and i/o comms interface (i have all of those components and alot of spare cpu and terminal pcb's). the other rack had both the iv 70 and iv 90 cpu's in it. the iv 70 had a card in it that passed the backplane signals to the iv 90 - i don't know why they used this "dual cpu" confg. i found out the info on the iv 60 when asking old fps employees about the iv 70 and 90 needed to complete the system. so far sellam has the only complete fps mini system that i know of. so i have given up on completing my sys 460 for now. i still have the fps stuff includeing three terminals and a very heavy drum printer. the iv 60 rack? i'm putting it to use, it has a smc carousel in it part of my early broadcast automation that i am hopeing to complete. when done it will be a harris system 90 or schiffer with 3 three track r2r's, a brain and three carousels (any body on list have this stuff ;)) Bill From fernande at internet1.net Mon Feb 17 23:03:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E51BD8E.4030207@internet1.net> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Win95 WILL run on a 12MHz 386SX. But it needs more than 4M RAM if you > want to leave "safe mode". Some others have been successful with only 4M, > but our experience was that it would only do safe mode until we added more > RAM. I see. I never tried it on my sisters 386sx-25, since I thought the DX was a requirement. I did try Win 3.1 on my old 286-12, with about 1-1.5 megs of memory. It was so slow, it took it a few minutes to finish crashing :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 17 23:06:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180012.h1I0Cb75012191@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman blathered: > Well, it would be a good idea to get the oil out of the hands > of the Arabs since they are using the profits to finance > terrorism. Yes, those damned dirty A-rabs. We all know for a fact that they use the profits to finance terrorism because Colin Powell showed us a pretty graphic that proved it. All those people who have doubts are just stupid. We all know a good A-rab is a dead A-rab. Fuck them. Let's go in there and take their precious oil from them so they can never use the profits to finance terrorism anymore. That'll end all terrorism forever and ever and we can live happily ever after guzzling all the free oil we want. Eric, you ROCK!!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Feb 17 23:12:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030217230146.05750df0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <20030218035946.GB9232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <5.1.1.6.2.20030217230146.05750df0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030218053633.GD9232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Mail List, from writings of Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 11:18:40PM -0500: > And he's a president that's doing a good job. I think he portrays Yes, Shrub^H^H^H^H^HBush is doing a good job of turning the U.S. into more of a police state; surely Stalin and Hitler would approve of the Patriot Acts I and II... of course, they might not approve of his reasons for some of his actions, which appear to be a result of his fundamentalist religious beliefs. He's also doing a good job of allowing more and more illegal aliens to cross the Mexican border, to pacify his friend Fox in Mexico, as if we don't have enough trouble with overpopulation and illegal immigration already. It appears that the voters were misled during the 2000 presidential campaign, and many of us who voted for the current president didn't get what we were expecting. Let's not forget that his administration also appears to have helped Micro$oft in the antitrust hearings... do you call that good as well? > a "simple country boy" persona, but in actuality, I think there's > a whole lot more to him than he publicaly lets on. Like a poker Do you mean like trying to hide that he resembles someone who is a danger to himself and others? Let's face it, anyone who believes that his actions are divinely inspired, and that he's basically a leader of a nation on a mission from his God, is surely more than a few acorns short of an oak tree, if you know what I mean. Any rational person (sorry, extreme religious fundamentalists don't fall into the category of "rational person") knows that there appears to be something seriously wrong, that religious extremists are trying to gain control of this nation with the help of the current presidential administration... if it's not the blasted communists/socialists screwing things up over here, it's the ultra right-wing fundamentalists screwing things up, while the majority of the population appears to be split between agreeing with the extremists or being apathetic. > player, he holds his cards closely. And his father was an excellent > president too. So, you're one of those people who approves of the New World Order? Also, let's not forget that "Bush I" didn't finish the war in Iraq (ok, and Clinton appears to have allowed things to get worse there and elsewhere while he was busy with the ladies, I won't dispute that) Also, don't forget those infamous words: "read my lips, no new taxes," before taxes were increased. > He "inherited" a national economic situation from the > Reagan years ( and Ronald Reagan did good things too ) that He inherited a failing economy and made it worse. Anyway, why stop at Reagan with the blame? Carter, and various predecessors, didn't help the economy much either, as they alternated between excessive social programs and excessive defense spending as "cures" for the economy. > couldn't be turned around quickly ( a national economy has incredible > mass and inertia ), so he bore the blame for it and lost to Clinton. Bush came across as too depressed and whiney during too many of his speeches, which had a negative psychological effect on the already fragile economy. Just my two cents worth. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 17 23:22:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:56 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E514FD8.4737.F46940@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I might remind you also that the oppressive Saudi- Arabian regime is > the US's most closely alligned arab client state in the mid-east next to > Kuwait. Bin Lauden's Saudi-Arabian fortunes came from your gas expenses, Yes, one could say that Eric Dittman finances terrorism. > Let's keep this ideological crap off the list and then I don't have to > further the OTism with non-ameriKKKan responses and diatribes. I concur. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 17 23:24:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180319.h1I3JXD6013308@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > No, it was sarcasm, pointing to Sellam's Bush-bashing. > > Sellam seems to take every chance he gets to bash Bush and the > administration. I was making a point. And your point is, what? That you're a racist? Since when does pointing out the obvious equate to "Bush-bashing"? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Feb 17 23:35:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: RS-232 Problem (Configuration ?) In-Reply-To: <200302180324.TAA15163@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E515428.23629.13E9668@localhost> I tried the dummy code test but it made no difference. Also, the status port address is fixed, once the board is addressed. If Port A is 02h, then the status for port A is 03h. The thing that may be confusing me is that this was a previously working system, with this configuration. So, the configuration and such should already be correct. And the patches made to the DOS disk, match the settings on the board (another good sign). And since I have multiple SIO boards that all behave the same way, I ruled out a hardware failure. Of course, I do have a cable that wasn't in the original system. But the cable is new. The SIO also uses an 8251 and that has some control setup capability but I have never had to program any of that. Just a reset and use board jumpers for setup. Perhaps it's time to stop assuming it was previously working. :-) I'm pretty sure this is some sort of handshake issue. Very strange. > >From: "Mike Davis" > > > >Let me start off by saying "I hate RS-232". Anyway, now that that's > >out of the way, I am having a problem with an RS-232 interface on an > >IMSAI SIO board. > > > >I've been debugging a North Star drive and I was having problems with > > it booting (DOS 2) in my IMSAI. I would get the "*" prompt but OS > >would not recognize my Soroc terminal input. At first I thought it > >might be buggy code on my DOS floppy. > > > >Anyway, to make a long story short, I have multiple of everything and > > have ruled out everything but something to do with my RS-232 > >configuration (I guess). I have 2 SIO board and both behave the same > > way. > > > >I'm documenting what I have here, in case someone sees something > >wrong that I've overlooked. BTW, this was previously working without > > any different configuration or hardware, with the exception of the > >RS- 232 cable from the Soroc to the IMSAI. This is a brand new cable > > that was working just a few weeks ago so I'm having a hard time > >believing there is anything wrong with this cable. I have only one, > >if you can believe that. I'm going to get another this weekend, if I > > have not figured this problem out by then. > > > >Anyway... > > > >I'm using Port A (on the SIO) and have configured the A3 Jumper to > >have > > > >TD Pin 1 to Pin 15 RD > >RD Pin 2 to Pin 16 TD > >RTS Pin 4 to Pin 12 CTS > >CTS Pin 5 to Pin 13 RTS > >DTR Pin 7 to Pin 9 DSR > >DSR Pin 8 to Pin 10 DTR > > > >By the way, the SIO manual shows DTR-DSR as through straight throuh > >in stead of crossover, as shown above. Seems that it should be > >crossed over like the others. In any case, I have tried both ways > >but it doesn't seem to make any difference. > > > >I'm using a straight through DB-25 cable from my Soroc to my IMSAI. > > > >I'm using the following CIN and COUT routines. > > > >2900 DB03 CIN IN STAT > >2902 E602 ANI IBIT > >2904 CA0029 JZ CIN > >2907 DB02 IN DATA > >2909 E67F ANI 7FH > >290B C9 RET > > > >290C DB03 COUT IN STAT > >290E E601 ANI OBIT > >2910 CA0C29 JZ COUT > >2913 78 MOV A,B > >2914 D302 OUT DATA > >2915 C9 RET > > > >Areas I'm wondering about. > > > >1) Is the A3 header correct for the IMSAI as the computer end and the > > Soroc as the terminal. 3 pairs crossed over. It does write to the > >Terminal properly and when I press the Break Key, I get an echo from > >the IMSAI of *?, which seems normal. > > > >I have tested the input routine, which is part of the DOS input > >routines, and was working previously, by modifying it to display the > >status to the programmed output on the IMSAI with this code. > > > >0000 DB03 CIN IN STAT > >0002 DBFF OUT FFH (programmed output port) > >0004 E602 ANI IBIT > >0006 CA0000 JZ CIN > >0009 DB02 IN DATA > >290B E67F ANI 7FH > >290D C30000 JMP CIN > > > Hi > There may already be a status in the port, that maybe > why you see no change. You need to put a dummy read first. > This will cause the drop of alternate characters when > working right but this is for debug. Try: > > > CIN IN DATA > CIN1 IN STAT > OUT FFH > ANI IBIT > JZ CIN1 > IN DATA > ANI 7FH > JMP CIN > > If you don't see any change, try some of the other ports, > near by for STAT, like 0 , 1 or 2. > If that fails, you could be having a problem with the > serial lines someplace. You need to check the levels > on the serial chip inputs. > Dwight > > > > >Seems that this should show whatever is read in the status port for > >Port A. But when executed, the status never changes after I tap any > >key. > > > >My system is behaving as if it just can't receive any data from the > >terminal. It's driving me buggy as this is a relatively simple > >problem. Like I said, I have multiple SIO and they all behave the > >same. I even tried another terminal and get the same results. I > >have also even tried different ribbon cable from the SIO to the RS- > >232 connector. > > > >Anyone see something bonehead that I overlooked? > > > >Thanks, From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Feb 17 23:37:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Earn big $$$ in legacy support In-Reply-To: <3E4F4CAC.18891.6CC7F5C@localhost> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030217145124.00a25070@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > > for labs that need our equipment. Our target client has > > classic (we use the word legacy) computers doing some sort Legacy support is some juicy business.Chances are good if you are running some 10+ year old computer, and the application isn't 100% frozen, spending some serious money like $10k plus to enable a few more bits to run on the same old system is well worth it. When I was working in the steel industry moving to new hardware was going to cost something like $5 million for a new license, so we jumped on a chance to add some emulated core memory so a couple new applications could be added to the existing system (Westinghouse 1600). From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Mon Feb 17 23:43:00 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: RS-232 Problem (Configuration ?) Message-ID: What does a logic probe on the (TTL) Serial Input of the SIO do when you send data? Are the Hardware Handshaking lines at the corrent levels? You could have a faulty Line reciever. If I were doing this, I would be proving the hardware, I don't see why the S/W would be failing? BTW, There is *never* a bonehead problem... Just the kind that we didn't think of.. regards. Doug Jackson CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Feb 17 23:44:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E514FD8.4737.F46940@localhost> Message-ID: <000901c2d710$7a372c80$5e3bcd18@D73KSM11> > Let's keep this ideological crap off the list and then I > don't have to further the OTism with non-ameriKKKan > responses and diatribes. > Let's try and keep the hypocrisy to a minimum. If you want to "keep this ideological crap off the list" then don't contribute to it by using terms like "ameriKKKan." From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Feb 17 23:46:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180345.h1I3jsFr013604@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <20030218035946.GB9232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 17, 2003 10:59:46 PM Message-ID: <3E517470.19105.1836262@localhost> Well I think the name Shrub, meaning "little bush", is pretty generous considering what most people around the world are calling him. What most around the world call the US bully Dubya is even more disrespectful of his office than that. Hitler was also short in stature and big with force. Maybe it's a psychological thing. And Tony Blair is his precariously ruling Mussolini and Sharon as his Tojo. Lawrence On 17 Feb 2003, , Eric Dittman wrote: > > > No, it was sarcasm, pointing to Sellam's Bush-bashing. > > > > Gee... isn't that comment a little extreme? I thought he > > was just making use of his horticultural abilities from > > his keyboard, verbally pruning a Shrub... > > He was doing yet more of his Bush-bashing. Not Shrub. The > President of the United States is named Bush. -- Eric > Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts > Club at http://www.dittman.net/ lgwalker@ mts.net From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Feb 17 23:48:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals In-Reply-To: References: <005901c2d629$e5b3bc40$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20030218061206.GE9232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 12:24:01AM +0000: > On the other hand, I got the impression that the poster of this advert > had at least taken the time to read the list and/or find out what we > really do here. That instantly raises the message well above the 'spam' > level. Yes, and the fact that he didn't try to annoy us with looney marketroid-speak, by directly referring to our systems as "legacy systems," but as classic or vintage systems (I forget which), which was to his credit as well (he only used "legacy systems" in parenthesis, along with an explanation of the term). > Nobody wants this list to turn into just adverts, but I think I'd find > _occassionaly_ posts like that less annoying that E-bay trailers from > regular list members. Indeed. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Feb 17 23:50:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question Message-ID: If your 486 is a DX, if you have 64Mb RAM, and if you had 20Mb of disk space to spare (minimum requirements for W98, excepting W98SE), you can load W98 in its "lite" or laptop version from bootable disks. W95's another matter though -- You'd need a copy of DOS 5.0 or better up and running to load it. Either way, you'll also need to remember your formatting and partitioning: 98/85 run on FAT16, and are limited to 2GB partitions (98SE allows FAT32, and can hand 4TB partitions). Is/are your drive(s) compatible? Cheers! Ed San Antonio, TX USA > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "Douglas > Wood" > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 12:12 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question > > I have a Gateway 2000 Handbook 486. Does any one know if Windows 95/98 > will > load on it? > > TIA. > > Douglas Wood > Software Engineer > dbwood@kc.rr.com > ICQ#: 143841506 > > Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC > http://epicis.piclist.com [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Feb 17 23:54:01 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: RS-232 Problem (Configuration ?) In-Reply-To: <200302180324.TAA15163@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E51588C.18757.14FC0ED@localhost> Tada! Man that was frustrating. But I found the problem. Turns out that I had another board in the system that was conflicting with my SIO. I was reading the IMSAI manual for the SIO (which is far too short) and after that there was a section on the MIO. I began to think that maybe the MIO was used instead of the SIO. Nope! That wasn't the problem. But just on a hunch, since I hadn't checked the addressing, I removed the MIO board. Tada! It all began to work. Evidently, the MIO was added later and never tested with the drive. I'll leave that for the weekend but at least I have my North Star drives booting and working properly now. Whew! Thanks to those that tried to help. Mike > >From: "Mike Davis" > > > >Let me start off by saying "I hate RS-232". Anyway, now that that's > >out of the way, I am having a problem with an RS-232 interface on an > >IMSAI SIO board. > > > >I've been debugging a North Star drive and I was having problems with > > it booting (DOS 2) in my IMSAI. I would get the "*" prompt but OS > >would not recognize my Soroc terminal input. At first I thought it > >might be buggy code on my DOS floppy. > > > >Anyway, to make a long story short, I have multiple of everything and > > have ruled out everything but something to do with my RS-232 > >configuration (I guess). I have 2 SIO board and both behave the same > > way. > > > >I'm documenting what I have here, in case someone sees something > >wrong that I've overlooked. BTW, this was previously working without > > any different configuration or hardware, with the exception of the > >RS- 232 cable from the Soroc to the IMSAI. This is a brand new cable > > that was working just a few weeks ago so I'm having a hard time > >believing there is anything wrong with this cable. I have only one, > >if you can believe that. I'm going to get another this weekend, if I > > have not figured this problem out by then. > > > >Anyway... > > > >I'm using Port A (on the SIO) and have configured the A3 Jumper to > >have > > > >TD Pin 1 to Pin 15 RD > >RD Pin 2 to Pin 16 TD > >RTS Pin 4 to Pin 12 CTS > >CTS Pin 5 to Pin 13 RTS > >DTR Pin 7 to Pin 9 DSR > >DSR Pin 8 to Pin 10 DTR > > > >By the way, the SIO manual shows DTR-DSR as through straight throuh > >in stead of crossover, as shown above. Seems that it should be > >crossed over like the others. In any case, I have tried both ways > >but it doesn't seem to make any difference. > > > >I'm using a straight through DB-25 cable from my Soroc to my IMSAI. > > > >I'm using the following CIN and COUT routines. > > > >2900 DB03 CIN IN STAT > >2902 E602 ANI IBIT > >2904 CA0029 JZ CIN > >2907 DB02 IN DATA > >2909 E67F ANI 7FH > >290B C9 RET > > > >290C DB03 COUT IN STAT > >290E E601 ANI OBIT > >2910 CA0C29 JZ COUT > >2913 78 MOV A,B > >2914 D302 OUT DATA > >2915 C9 RET > > > >Areas I'm wondering about. > > > >1) Is the A3 header correct for the IMSAI as the computer end and the > > Soroc as the terminal. 3 pairs crossed over. It does write to the > >Terminal properly and when I press the Break Key, I get an echo from > >the IMSAI of *?, which seems normal. > > > >I have tested the input routine, which is part of the DOS input > >routines, and was working previously, by modifying it to display the > >status to the programmed output on the IMSAI with this code. > > > >0000 DB03 CIN IN STAT > >0002 DBFF OUT FFH (programmed output port) > >0004 E602 ANI IBIT > >0006 CA0000 JZ CIN > >0009 DB02 IN DATA > >290B E67F ANI 7FH > >290D C30000 JMP CIN > > > Hi > There may already be a status in the port, that maybe > why you see no change. You need to put a dummy read first. > This will cause the drop of alternate characters when > working right but this is for debug. Try: > > > CIN IN DATA > CIN1 IN STAT > OUT FFH > ANI IBIT > JZ CIN1 > IN DATA > ANI 7FH > JMP CIN > > If you don't see any change, try some of the other ports, > near by for STAT, like 0 , 1 or 2. > If that fails, you could be having a problem with the > serial lines someplace. You need to check the levels > on the serial chip inputs. > Dwight > > > > >Seems that this should show whatever is read in the status port for > >Port A. But when executed, the status never changes after I tap any > >key. > > > >My system is behaving as if it just can't receive any data from the > >terminal. It's driving me buggy as this is a relatively simple > >problem. Like I said, I have multiple SIO and they all behave the > >same. I even tried another terminal and get the same results. I > >have also even tried different ribbon cable from the SIO to the RS- > >232 connector. > > > >Anyone see something bonehead that I overlooked? > > > >Thanks, From fernande at internet1.net Tue Feb 18 00:12:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E51CDB8.7080308@internet1.net> Tillman, Edward wrote: > If your 486 is a DX, if you have 64Mb RAM, and if you had 20Mb of disk space > to spare (minimum requirements for W98, excepting W98SE), you can load W98 > in its "lite" or laptop version from bootable disks. I think I used 40megs on my smallest install, and that is with 98lite, a program that allows a bare bones install on Win98. > W95's another matter > though -- You'd need a copy of DOS 5.0 or better up and running to load it. Do you mean Win3.1x? You don't need Dos for Win95. > Either way, you'll also need to remember your formatting and partitioning: > 98/85 run on FAT16, and are limited to 2GB partitions (98SE allows FAT32, > and can hand 4TB partitions). Is/are your drive(s) compatible? Your mixing thing up here. Win95 OSr1 was fat16 only. Win95 OSr2.x was fat16 or fat32. Win98 is fat16 or fat32. I'm not sure what's different in the SE edition of Win98, but it certainly isn't its fat32 capabilities. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Tue Feb 18 00:14:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Help with my PDP 11/73 In-Reply-To: <20030217224155.55215.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030217224155.55215.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E51CE34.3090104@internet1.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Do you have a complete grant chain? Gaps in the backplane > will also cause that behavior. You need all the cards "next" > to each other (according to the routing of your grant signals > which differs, depending on which backplane you have). I wonder if this is my problem? I have a 11/73 that I couldn't get to boot, when I tried. It's partially disassmebled now, but hopefully when I get more of my house done, I can work on it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 00:19:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 17, 2003 09:15:57 PM Message-ID: <200302180617.h1I6HEkC014556@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I might remind you also that the oppressive Saudi- Arabian regime is > > the US's most closely alligned arab client state in the mid-east next to > > Kuwait. Bin Lauden's Saudi-Arabian fortunes came from your gas expenses, > > Yes, one could say that Eric Dittman finances terrorism. And one would be wrong to say that. > > Let's keep this ideological crap off the list and then I don't have to > > further the OTism with non-ameriKKKan responses and diatribes. > > I concur. Sellam, you are the one that posts most of the ideological crap in the first place! -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 00:21:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 17, 2003 09:18:00 PM Message-ID: <200302180618.h1I6Irco014575@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > No, it was sarcasm, pointing to Sellam's Bush-bashing. > > > > Sellam seems to take every chance he gets to bash Bush and the > > administration. I was making a point. > > And your point is, what? That you're a racist? No, pinhead, I was pointing out that you were painting with a broad stroke without anything other than circumstantial evidence. > Since when does pointing out the obvious equate to "Bush-bashing"? Where is your proof? Circumstantial evidence is not proof. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Feb 18 00:24:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030217230146.05750df0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <200302180345.h1I3jsFr013604@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3E517D6C.6388.1A67A7D@localhost> On 17 Feb 2003, , Mail List wrote: > Hi Eric, > > And he's a president that's doing a good job. I think he > portrays a "simple country boy" persona, but in actuality, I > think there's a whole lot more to him than he publicaly lets > on. Like a poker player, he holds his cards closely. And his > father was an excellent president too. He "inherited" a > national economic situation from the Reagan years ( and > Ronald Reagan did good things too ) that couldn't be turned > around quickly ( a national economy has incredible mass and > inertia ), so he bore the blame for it and lost to Clinton. > There's a whole lot more going on in the circles of national > gov't. and national defense than they can let be openly > disclosed to the world, for national defense and national > security reasons. > Or international hilarity at his numbness. But I don't hold the cleverness of his, his father's, or Cheyny's corporate oil company masters with disdain. I just figure their aims aren't in the worlds interests. Oh Bennet, you flawed casualty of Republican wiles. I hope you don't end up in jail regretting how much you might have made if YOU had bought out the leftover Maynard stock. Lawrence > > At 09:45 PM 2/17/03 -0600, you wrote: > > > > No, it was sarcasm, pointing to Sellam's Bush-bashing. > > > > > > Gee... isn't that comment a little extreme? I thought > > > he was just making use of his horticultural abilities > > > from his keyboard, verbally pruning a Shrub... > > > >He was doing yet more of his Bush-bashing. Not Shrub. The > >President of the United States is named Bush. -- Eric > >Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts > >Club at http://www.dittman.net/ lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Feb 18 00:40:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000901c2d710$7a372c80$5e3bcd18@D73KSM11> References: <3E514FD8.4737.F46940@localhost> Message-ID: <3E518114.20317.1B4C5DC@localhost> To a racist message it seems apropos. Hypocrisy is denying the obvious and affirming the other. Like it or not the KKK is part of US history and I will shamefully admit part of Canadian as well. Nuff said. Lawrence On 17 Feb 2003, , Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Let's keep this ideological crap off the list and then I > > don't have to further the OTism with non-ameriKKKan > > responses and diatribes. > > > Let's try and keep the hypocrisy to a minimum. If you want > to "keep this ideological crap off the list" then don't > contribute to it by using terms like "ameriKKKan." lgwalker@ mts.net From evan947 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 18 00:40:37 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Slide rule article in today's Wall Street Journal Message-ID: <20030218063828.68329.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Hi listmates, some might be interested in this: - Evan K. ========================= Calculating Collector Scours Globe Hunting for Slide Rules By PUI-WING TAM Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL KELOWNA, British Columbia -- Walter Shawlee opened a wooden case and lovingly pulled out a 12-inch piece of Lucite etched with numbers and symbols. "There are only so many of these remaining," he said. To virtually anyone old enough to remember the slide rule, it's an ancient relic that was deservedly consigned to the trash bin. Not so to Mr. Shawlee, 53, who has launched an international hunt for these mathematical instruments that use logarithmic scales to multiply, divide and make more complex calculations. Mr. Shawlee taps his network of contacts from Singapore to Venezuela to check out the back rooms of musty stationery stores and bookshops. He has recruited his wife, Susan, to track down old slide-rule inventories. And he spends up to eight hours a day restoring battered slide rules, and combing the Internet, estate sales and flea markets. He says he makes $125,000 a year reselling slide rules he acquires. "When we used slide rules every day back in the 1960s, we were able to send people to the moon," says Mr. Shawlee, who came of age when the device was still the rule in trigonometry class. Slide rules, which resemble either rulers or discs, were a boon to the mathematically minded and a bane to everyone else. To multiply two times two, for example, the user moves the "zero" of one scale to the number two on another scale. Then the user looks at the number two on the first scale, and above that is the number four. Confused? So were many other people, which is why the slide-rule industry took a big hit in 1972, when Hewlett-Packard Co. launched its first scientific hand-held calculator. Almost overnight, demand for slide rules dried up, wiping out venerable manufacturers such as Pickett Inc. and Keuffel & Esser Co. and leaving boxes of unopened slide rules in stores, warehouses and schools. In the ensuing decades, a flicker of interest in the instruments was kept alive by a small community of collectors. In Emeryville, Calif., enthusiasts formed a society to show off their collections. In Dallas, some collectors still hold an annual competition to see who can make the speediest calculations. But slide rules are more than quirky bric-a-brac to the true believers. Many engineers still swear by them. Some teachers today are reintroducing the devices into classrooms, arguing that they foster more-complex thought processes than electronic calculators do. At the University of California in San Diego, Prof. Joe Pasquale launched a freshman seminar on slide rules in January. "I always felt we lost something when we stopped using slide rules," says Mr. Pasquale. "They're so much more an extension of your mind than a replacement to it." A slide rule made by A.W. Faber Castell Vertrieb GmbH, now discontinued, is one of the most popular models among collectors. The problem is slide rules are getting harder to find. Of the few manufacturers that survived the calculator tsunami, most produce only a few types of slide rules and often in limited numbers. Concise Co. in Japan still makes circular slide rules, for example, but the quantity "has become much smaller," says spokeswoman Chiho Takayama. American Slide Chart Corp. in Carol Stream, Ill., annually makes 25 million cardboard slide-charts, which are similar to slide rules, but they are "largely promotional," says Julie Johnson, the company's president. Thus, many would-be buyers turn to Mr. Shawlee. "He's Mr. Slide Rule," says Ted Hume, a 64-year-old engineer in San Angelo, Texas, who sold off part of his slide-rule collection to Mr. Shawlee several years ago. "Walter knows everybody in the slide-rule racket. He does everyone lots of favors and he'll buy slide rules from you or barter them." Mr. Shawlee's impressive slide-rule stash was on display one recent morning at his crammed office in this Canadian resort and winery town, a 40-minute flight inland from Vancouver. Several hundred slide rules, most in mint condition and in their original boxes, were stacked floor- to-ceiling in a room where Mr. Shawlee also runs a business that repairs and designs engineering equipment. At home, he has another 1,000 or so slide rules scattered across the dining table, in his home office and in his sauna. At any one time, Mr. Shawlee, a transplanted Californian who emigrated to Canada three decades ago, has 1,500 to 3,000 slide rules in stock. He says he acquires about 10% of his inventory through eBay, while the rest comes from private sales and through his extensive network of slide-rule hunters. He resells many of the slide rules for as little as $10. Some models go for $600, depending on the rarity of the rule, and he can sell a truly uncommon one for as much as $3,000. Mr. Shawlee fell into the slide-rule trade shortly after he accidentally rediscovered his old high-school slide rule in a desk drawer in 1992. "My eyeballs snapped open," he says, recalling how he carried his slide rule on his belt as a kid. "There's just something magic about them." He started a collection, setting up an informational Web site on the devices in 1997. He received dozens of inquiries from people asking where they could buy the instruments. TELL ME A STORY Read selected excerpts from the anthology "Floating Off the Page: The Best of The Wall Street Journal's 'Middle Column.' " That was when Mr. Shawlee started amassing stockpiles of slide rules from other collectors. Over a few months, he bought more than 300. "Are you trying to corner the slide-rule market?" his wife nervously asked him as the hoard continued to grow. Mr. Shawlee always puts aside about $5,000 in cash to be ready to wire for a purchase. One of his largest hauls came several years ago from a contact in Singapore, attorney Foo Cheow Ming, whom he met via an e-mail correspondence. After one e-mail discussion with Mr. Shawlee, Mr. Foo went to an old bookstore in downtown Singapore and asked the owner whether he had any slide rules. "How many crates do you want?" the owner replied. In the back room, Mr. Foo discovered 40 unopened crates, containing more than 12,000 slide rules of all types. "I found the mother lode," says Mr. Foo, who had no interest in setting up his own slide-rule dealership and shipped most of the crates off to Mr. Shawlee, who paid a bit more than $8,000 for the lot. "Since then, I've never stopped hunting for Walter. I've gone to Kuala Lumpur to look and still plan to go to Penang, Bangkok and Shanghai to find some," Mr. Foo says. "It's all in the thrill of the hunt." From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Feb 18 00:42:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180618.h1I6Irco014575@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <000a01c2d718$7e13d0d0$5e3bcd18@D73KSM11> > Where is your proof? Circumstantial evidence is not proof. > Well, if you're in court it is. Here is the standard jury instruction on circumstantial evidence in criminal trials in the U.S.: "Evidence may be direct or circumstantial. Direct evidence is direct proof of a fact, such as testimony of an eyewitness. Circumstantial evidence is indirect evidence, that is, proof of a chain of facts from which you could find that another fact exists, even though it has not been proved directly. You are to consider both kinds of evidence. The law permits you to give equal weight to both, but it is for you to decide how much weight to give to any evidence." From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 00:44:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 17, 2003 09:00:00 PM Message-ID: <200302180641.h1I6fvYv014717@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Well, it would be a good idea to get the oil out of the hands > > of the Arabs since they are using the profits to finance > > terrorism. > > Yes, those damned dirty A-rabs. We all know for a fact that they use > the profits to finance terrorism because Colin Powell showed us a pretty > graphic that proved it. All those people who have doubts are just stupid. > We all know a good A-rab is a dead A-rab. Fuck them. Let's go in there > and take their precious oil from them so they can never use the profits > to finance terrorism anymore. That'll end all terrorism forever and ever > and we can live happily ever after guzzling all the free oil we want. > > Eric, you ROCK!!! Okay, maybe you did see that I was using sarcasm. If so, I apologize in saying you couldn't see I was using sarcasm. Saying Bush is just after Iraq for the oil is like saying the terrorists are using oil to finance their actions. There is nothing but circumstantial evidence to support either position. I guess I should have flagged that I was using sarcasm, but I guess most people didn't see that. As you point out, there's a big ignorance of the Arabic people. Arabs aren't these backwards people that the stereotypes portray. For instance, there's a lot of basis in mathematics that were contributed by Arabs, like the numerals and counting system we use. For some reason people tend to think of the Greeks as the big contributors to mathematics, and they did contribute a lot, but the Arabic mathemeticians did a lot of work that is fundamental. They also did a lot of early work in astronomy. While Europe was covered in a veil of religion that hindered scientific research, the Arabic people were mapping the skies. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 00:45:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E517D6C.6388.1A67A7D@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 18, 2003 12:25:16 AM Message-ID: <200302180643.h1I6h0ot014731@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Or international hilarity at his numbness. But I don't > hold the cleverness of his, his father's, or Cheyny's > corporate oil company masters with disdain. I just > figure their aims aren't in the worlds interests. Circumstantial. Where is the proof? > Oh Bennet, you flawed casualty of Republican wiles. > I hope you don't end up in jail regretting how much you > might have made if YOU had bought out the leftover > Maynard stock. And you don't think you are a flawed casualty of Democratic wiles? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Feb 18 00:47:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E518114.20317.1B4C5DC@localhost> Message-ID: <000b01c2d719$4a87e750$5e3bcd18@D73KSM11> Then why not say KKKanadian? > > To a racist message it seems apropos. Hypocrisy is > denying the obvious and affirming the other. Like it or not > the KKK is part of US history and I will shamefully admit > part of Canadian as well. Nuff said. > > Lawrence > > On 17 Feb 2003, , Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > Let's keep this ideological crap off the list and then I > > > don't have to further the OTism with non-ameriKKKan > > > responses and diatribes. > > > > > Let's try and keep the hypocrisy to a minimum. If you want > to "keep > > this ideological crap off the list" then don't contribute to it by > > using terms like "ameriKKKan." > > > lgwalker@ mts.net From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 00:57:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030218053633.GD9232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 18, 2003 12:36:34 AM Message-ID: <200302180655.h1I6t7Dx014832@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > And he's a president that's doing a good job. I think he portrays > > Yes, Shrub^H^H^H^H^HBush is doing a good job of turning the U.S. into > more of a police state; surely Stalin and Hitler would approve of the > Patriot Acts I and II... of course, they might not approve of his > reasons for some of his actions, which appear to be a result of his > fundamentalist religious beliefs. He's also doing a good job of > allowing more and more illegal aliens to cross the Mexican border, to > pacify his friend Fox in Mexico, as if we don't have enough trouble > with overpopulation and illegal immigration already. It appears that > the voters were misled during the 2000 presidential campaign, and many > of us who voted for the current president didn't get what we were > expecting. My, I did misjudge you, R. D. You do have your thumb on the problems with Bush. The Patriot Acts are too much to take. I don't think the motivation is religious in nature, though. They are more to do with locking down the country so no more terrorist attacks can occur. The problem is when the country gets that locked down the freedoms we cherish disappear. When we lose all our freedoms, what do we have worth keeping? As for ignoring illegal immigration from Mexico, I find that extremely hypocritical. We want to tighten the borders so we are protected from terrorism, but we'll leave that huge sieve between Mexico and the US completely open? > Let's not forget that his administration also appears to have helped > Micro$oft in the antitrust hearings... do you call that good as well? I don't think anyone can call that good, except for M$. > > a "simple country boy" persona, but in actuality, I think there's > > a whole lot more to him than he publicaly lets on. Like a poker > > Do you mean like trying to hide that he resembles someone who is a > danger to himself and others? Let's face it, anyone who believes that > his actions are divinely inspired, and that he's basically a leader of > a nation on a mission from his God, is surely more than a few acorns > short of an oak tree, if you know what I mean. Any rational person > (sorry, extreme religious fundamentalists don't fall into the category > of "rational person") knows that there appears to be something > seriously wrong, that religious extremists are trying to gain control > of this nation with the help of the current presidential > administration... if it's not the blasted communists/socialists > screwing things up over here, it's the ultra right-wing > fundamentalists screwing things up, while the majority of the > population appears to be split between agreeing with the extremists or > being apathetic. The religious extremists have been trying to gain control of this nation for years at the state and local levels. They've been fighting for religious freedom in government for years, as long as religious freedom means Protestant, preferably Baptist, and hopefully Southern Baptist. > > player, he holds his cards closely. And his father was an excellent > > president too. > > So, you're one of those people who approves of the New World Order? > Also, let's not forget that "Bush I" didn't finish the war in Iraq > (ok, and Clinton appears to have allowed things to get worse there and > elsewhere while he was busy with the ladies, I won't dispute that) > Also, don't forget those infamous words: "read my lips, no new taxes," > before taxes were increased. The New World Order has been around in one form or another for decades. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 00:59:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000b01c2d719$4a87e750$5e3bcd18@D73KSM11> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Feb 17, 2003 10:45:09 PM Message-ID: <200302180656.h1I6uS0w014846@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Then why not say KKKanadian? > > > > To a racist message it seems apropos. Hypocrisy is > > denying the obvious and affirming the other. Like it or not > > the KKK is part of US history and I will shamefully admit > > part of Canadian as well. Nuff said. I thought the KKK was a US-only thing. It just doesn't seem to go with Canadian sensibility. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 01:03:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000a01c2d718$7e13d0d0$5e3bcd18@D73KSM11> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Feb 17, 2003 10:39:26 PM Message-ID: <200302180700.h1I70MnZ014872@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Where is your proof? Circumstantial evidence is not proof. > > > > Well, if you're in court it is. Here is the standard jury instruction > on circumstantial evidence in criminal trials in the U.S.: > > "Evidence may be direct or circumstantial. Direct evidence is direct > proof of a fact, such as testimony of an eyewitness. Circumstantial > evidence is indirect evidence, that is, proof of a chain of facts from > which you could find that another fact exists, even though it has not > been proved directly. You are to consider both kinds of evidence. The > law permits you to give equal weight to both, but it is for you to > decide how much weight to give to any evidence." Okay, for a legal-as-in-U.S.-courts, what do they call evidence that is circumstantial in nature that requires a leap of faith to be true? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From mranalog at attbi.com Tue Feb 18 01:18:01 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: RS-232 Problem (Configuration ?) Message-ID: <3E51DDC9.4E68DC70@attbi.com> Mike Davis wrote: > Let me start off by saying "I hate RS-232". RS-232 is not a problem as long as you have a few tools and some patience. > I'm using Port A (on the SIO) and have configured the A3 Jumper to > have You might change the A3 jumper (temporary) by REMOVING jumpers: TD Pin 1 to Pin 15 RD RD Pin 2 to Pin 16 TD and INSTALLING a jumper: RD Pin 15 to Pin 16 TD This will give you a loopback to your terminal that will test your cabling and the correctness of the handshaking with your terminal. If this does not work, I would look at the handshaking first. If that works, and you have a logic probe, you could change the A3 jumpers back to their original jumpers and using the logic probe, test for the pulses being received at pin 3 on the 8251 at B5. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Feb 18 01:40:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180618.h1I6Irco014575@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 17, 2003 09:18:00 PM Message-ID: <3E518E88.24699.1E95518@localhost> On 18 Feb 2003, , Eric Dittman wrote: > > > No, it was sarcasm, pointing to Sellam's Bush-bashing. > > > > > > Sellam seems to take every chance he gets to bash Bush > > > and the administration. I was making a point. > > > > And your point is, what? That you're a racist? > > No, pinhead, I was pointing out that you were painting with > a broad stroke without anything other than circumstantial > evidence. Somewhat like Dubyas utterences and Colin Powell's "unrefutable" evidence refuted both by Hans Blick and the international community? Or Tonee Blairs "evidence" that was written by a university student. My Blockhead, I would suggest you read a little more and not accept without reflection the CNN administation spin on things and short TV clips. Lord-all-mighty you may even learn to think independantly and become a "homeland" threat. I'm sure if I went thru the founding fathers writings like Patrick Henry and the works of the great american authors like Mark Twain and Will Rogers I could find a description of what sort of patriots you and Dubya are. Hmmm. You aren't the guy that was brought up in an authoritarian regime, and was proclaiming your americanism recently are you ? Lawrence > > > Since when does pointing out the obvious equate to > > "Bush-bashing"? > > Where is your proof? Circumstantial evidence is not proof. > -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC > Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ lgwalker@ mts.net From mranalog at attbi.com Tue Feb 18 01:59:00 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: RS-232 Problem (Configuration ?) Message-ID: <3E51E767.553E8E12@attbi.com> Mike Davis wrote: > I'm using the following CIN and COUT routines. > 2900 DB03 CIN IN STAT > 2902 E602 ANI IBIT > 2904 CA0029 JZ CIN > 2907 DB02 IN DATA Shouldn't there be a OUT DATA inserted here to echo the character back to the terminal? Wait a minute!! The User Manual says on the A3 jumper "Jumper connection 3 to 14 is always to be made." I don't see that in your list of jumpers. This jumper looks like it disables current loop operation and would effect RxD!! --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Feb 18 02:13:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180700.h1I70MnZ014872@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <001501c2d725$316af490$5e3bcd18@D73KSM11> > Okay, for a legal-as-in-U.S.-courts, what do they call > evidence that is circumstantial in nature that requires a > leap of faith to be true? > -- Conjectural. From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Feb 18 02:40:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180643.h1I6h0ot014731@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <3E517D6C.6388.1A67A7D@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 18, 2003 12:25:16 AM Message-ID: <3E519D1C.26058.2224675@localhost> On 18 Feb 2003, , Eric Dittman wrote: > > Or international hilarity at his numbness. But I don't > > hold the cleverness of his, his father's, or Cheyny's > > corporate oil company masters with disdain. I just figure > > their aims aren't in the worlds interests. > > Circumstantial. Where is the proof? > Of the hilarious disdain ? An ultra-intelligent spindoctor aide of Chretien the Canadian Prime-Minister was dismissed because she was overheard expressing to a friendly jounalist friend in an aside. "What a total idiot" You can also access the general opinion by most journalists of Dubyas thickness in many articles not beholden to the US administrations. His homespun announcements usually illicits giggles by those who know that is his real personna not a pose. His main financial support even in the Texas governors office and in his run for the presidency won only by the Florida votes supervised by his brother ? and Enron, that marvellous epitomy of corporate honesty. But, of course Dubya, his papa, the earlier president and former head of the CIA, and Cheney, part of both administrations are all involved heavily in oil. Circumstantial ? But as Dylan said you don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. And where is the proof of all the Bush accusations against Iraq. Nothing has been proven. Iraq and Hussain in any case are no threat to world security, Bush and his administration are. > > Oh Bennet, you flawed casualty of Republican wiles. > > I hope you don't end up in jail regretting how much you > > might have made if YOU had bought out the leftover Maynard > > stock. > > And you don't think you are a flawed casualty of > Democratic wiles? Likely. I've been against dictatorship all my life. Grew up during the fight against fascism and Hitler. Never outgrew the fight against it. Which led to my fight against segregation and later against the war in Viet-Nam in the hard days when opposition could result in a beating by the "hard-hats". There's a bunch of us across the country, still alive, unaffilliated, and you ain't seen nuthin yet. Let it go Eric.You're not a very intelligent opponent and it is stringing out a thread that would be better debated in another venue than one concerned with classic computers, even tho it isn't in classic.tech. Lawrence > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at > http://www.dittman.net/ lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Feb 18 03:08:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000b01c2d719$4a87e750$5e3bcd18@D73KSM11> References: <3E518114.20317.1B4C5DC@localhost> Message-ID: <3E51A3E6.25475.23CCE78@localhost> Bleeeechhk. Eat shxx and die. Dogs and jackals like to feed off of offal. On 17 Feb 2003, , Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Then why not say KKKanadian? > > > > To a racist message it seems apropos. Hypocrisy is > > denying the obvious and affirming the other. Like it or > > not the KKK is part of US history and I will shamefully > > admit part of Canadian as well. Nuff said. > > > > Lawrence > > > > On 17 Feb 2003, , Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > > > Let's keep this ideological crap off the list and > > > > then I > > > > don't have to further the OTism with non-ameriKKKan > > > > responses and diatribes. > > > > > > > Let's try and keep the hypocrisy to a minimum. If you > > > want > > to "keep > > > this ideological crap off the list" then don't > > > contribute to it by using terms like "ameriKKKan." > > > > > > lgwalker@ mts.net lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Feb 18 03:08:35 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <001501c2d725$316af490$5e3bcd18@D73KSM11> References: <200302180700.h1I70MnZ014872@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> On 18 Feb 2003, , Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Okay, for a legal-as-in-U.S.-courts, what do they call > > evidence that is circumstantial in nature that requires a > > leap of faith to be true? -- > The Bush administations case on Iraq. The devil made me do it. That's all Folks Ta-ta ta-ta ta-taa Ta-ta ta-ta ta-taa Ta-ta ta-ta ta taa tum lgwalker@ mts.net From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 18 03:25:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Full-blown OT: Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180618.h1I6Irco014575@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > No, pinhead, I was pointing out that you were painting with a > broad stroke without anything other than circumstantial > evidence. Oh, you mean like the Bush administration's evidence regarding Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs? > > Since when does pointing out the obvious equate to "Bush-bashing"? > > Where is your proof? Circumstantial evidence is not proof. Oh, I'm sorry. You apparently didn't get the memo. The new standard in our current US system is to provide circumstantial evidence of a claim and then force the accused party to prove they are not guilty. Since I'm an American citizen, I feel a right to exercise this new form of jurisprudence myself. In light of any hard evidence nor the Bush administration's ability to prove itself innocent of my charges, I find them guilty. Ready the forces. I rest my case. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 18 03:38:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180655.h1I6t7Dx014832@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > They are more to do with locking down the country so no more terrorist > attacks can occur. The problem is when the country gets that locked down > the freedoms we cherish disappear. When we lose all our freedoms, what > do we have worth keeping? If we lock down our country and hold everyone suspect, did not The Terrorists win? > As for ignoring illegal immigration from Mexico, I find that extremely > hypocritical. We want to tighten the borders so we are protected from > terrorism, but we'll leave that huge sieve between Mexico and the US > completely open? Who, then, will pick your lettuce? I mean no disrespect whatsoever to Mexican folks who brave through torrid deserts to make their way to California so they can spend 8+ hours a day stooped over in the hot sun picking vegetables so that you can have a salad on your table. I am quite serious. What white person, in this day and age, would ever take a job picking lettuce for minimum wage? These issues are not always as simple as people want to make them. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 18 03:38:31 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302180700.h1I70MnZ014872@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > Okay, for a legal-as-in-U.S.-courts, what do they call evidence > that is circumstantial in nature that requires a leap of faith > to be true? Colin Powell's presentation at the UN last week? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Feb 18 03:46:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E517470.19105.1836262@localhost> References: <200302180345.h1I3jsFr013604@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3E520EA7.31562.28D44714@localhost> > Well I think the name Shrub, meaning "little bush", is > pretty generous considering what most people around > the world are calling him. Without going into all this Hitler comparsions, I think some Americans still overestimate what the world thinks about Herrn Busch. At least over here, he is already no longer considered a relevant person or force. Of course it's not all his own work, he had in Rumsfeld an unusual profient helper (*1). The real problem will arise when this impression may get to become permanent _and_ extended to the US at all. If a big mouth or a schoolbully gets ignored at the school yard, that is maybe unusual, but may wield a positive result. If the libero (ok, quaterback for all who use an odd shaped ball for football) gets ignored by the team winning is no longer possible. Gruss H. (*1) There are quite a lot of serious people who wellcome a reduction of american troops over here. It's just sucking up German tax money without any return. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Feb 18 04:20:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <200302180655.h1I6t7Dx014832@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3E52166C.25220.28F2A010@localhost> > > They are more to do with locking down the country so no more terrorist > > attacks can occur. The problem is when the country gets that locked down > > the freedoms we cherish disappear. When we lose all our freedoms, what > > do we have worth keeping? > If we lock down our country and hold everyone suspect, did not The > Terrorists win? Nope, the control freaks win! > > As for ignoring illegal immigration from Mexico, I find that extremely > > hypocritical. We want to tighten the borders so we are protected from > > terrorism, but we'll leave that huge sieve between Mexico and the US > > completely open? > Who, then, will pick your lettuce? I mean no disrespect whatsoever to > Mexican folks who brave through torrid deserts to make their way to > California so they can spend 8+ hours a day stooped over in the hot > sun picking vegetables so that you can have a salad on your table. I am > quite serious. What white person, in this day and age, would ever take a > job picking lettuce for minimum wage? Hmm, what about Polish workers? No, serious, over here, there are no Mexicans, nor orther unhealthy ceap workers, and the lettuce gets still picked. Well, large farms use robots. And hasn't it be you, Sallam, who noticed that prices are quite low? So the old argument that the ceap workers are to give you low produce prices is a myth. All it does is making somebody inbetween rich. It isn't that simple either way. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 18 06:23:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Fwd: Grundy Newbrain Schematics? In-Reply-To: <000001c2d5df$2cfe6cd0$0200a8c0@LOFTNET.COM> References: <000001c2d5df$2cfe6cd0$0200a8c0@LOFTNET.COM> Message-ID: <531294220.20030218062112@subatomix.com> Reply to the original author, please. His post is edited for proper punctuation, capitalization, spelling, grammar, and semantics. My edits are delimited with square brackets ('[', ']'). ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Barry Cross Date: Sunday, February 16, 2003, 11:16:37 AM Subject: newbrain [H]i[.] [I] saw [that someone on this list] had [schematics] for the [G]rundy [N]ewbrain[.] [I]s there any possibility [at all] of a copy of this [available for me]? [I] would be willing to pay any costs [incurred.] [T]hanks. ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 18 06:26:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Fwd: Paging Andreas Freiherr (V-Tel) In-Reply-To: <200302130548.h1D5mh600110@bosphorus.dimebank.com> References: <200302130548.h1D5mh600110@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <1371447601.20030218062346@subatomix.com> Andreas, someone wants to talk to you about V-Tel. If you wish to respond, reply to the original author. ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Chris Kantarjiev Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 11:48:44 PM Subject: Rejected post I'm trying to reach Andreas Freiherr. The list archives don't give *his* email address, just the list email address. Can you help me reach him? ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- Jeffrey Sharp From ipscone at msdsite.com Tue Feb 18 06:44:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: RS-232 Problem (Configuration ?) In-Reply-To: <3E51E767.553E8E12@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3E51B8DA.10110.2C7FF7C@localhost> No OUT DATA necessary. That is done in the other routine, in normal use. However, as I said in another post, the problem was solved. The problem turned out to be a conflict of some sort with another I/O board. I removed the other board and everything works now. Thanks > Mike Davis wrote: > > I'm using the following CIN and COUT routines. > > 2900 DB03 CIN IN STAT > > 2902 E602 ANI IBIT > > 2904 CA0029 JZ CIN > > 2907 DB02 IN DATA > > Shouldn't there be a OUT DATA inserted here to > echo the character back to the terminal? > > Wait a minute!! The User Manual says on the > A3 jumper "Jumper connection 3 to 14 is always > to be made." I don't see that in your list of > jumpers. This jumper looks like it disables > current loop operation and would effect RxD!! > --Doug > ========================================= > Doug Coward > @ home in Poulsbo, WA > > Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center > http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog > ========================================= From ipscone at msdsite.com Tue Feb 18 06:46:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: RS-232 Problem (Configuration ?) In-Reply-To: <3E51DDC9.4E68DC70@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3E51B911.8359.2C8D563@localhost> Good tip. I will keep this in my tip file. Thanks. > Mike Davis wrote: > > Let me start off by saying "I hate RS-232". > > RS-232 is not a problem as long as you have > a few tools and some patience. > > > I'm using Port A (on the SIO) and have configured the A3 Jumper to > > have > > You might change the A3 jumper (temporary) by > REMOVING jumpers: > TD Pin 1 to Pin 15 RD > RD Pin 2 to Pin 16 TD > and INSTALLING a jumper: > RD Pin 15 to Pin 16 TD > This will give you a loopback to your terminal that > will test your cabling and the correctness of the > handshaking with your terminal. > If this does not work, I would look at the > handshaking first. > > If that works, and you have a logic probe, you > could change the A3 jumpers back to their original > jumpers and using the logic probe, test for the > pulses being received at pin 3 on the 8251 at > B5. > --Doug > ========================================= > Doug Coward > @ home in Poulsbo, WA > > Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center > http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog > ========================================= From kandres at epssecurity.com Tue Feb 18 07:16:00 2003 From: kandres at epssecurity.com (Kevin Andres) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Gridcase 1530 Message-ID: Greetings all, I have a Gridcase 1520 286 with plasma display that I bought years ago to work in dark areas with. It has the same problem that was mentioned where the CMOS battery is low/dead, and does not maintain settings. I have mine on a bench currently running an exercise for a graphic driver board fed by serial numbers. I put together a "boot" floppy for it when it first started losing its settings in CMOS. As was previously stated, hitting "F" at boot up will cause the machine to load from floppy. I have done that for a lOOOOng time for lack of time to change the battery. Hitting "H" selected boot from hard drive as I recall, but I have had no problem accessing the hard drive once the floppy boot was accomplished. Of course the correct thing to do is replace the CMOS battery as one writer suggested. If you do not solder, find someone who can. Kev From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 08:00:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E518E88.24699.1E95518@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 18, 2003 01:38:16 AM Message-ID: <200302181357.h1IDvjkh017194@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > No, it was sarcasm, pointing to Sellam's Bush-bashing. > > > > > > > > Sellam seems to take every chance he gets to bash Bush > > > > and the administration. I was making a point. > > > > > > And your point is, what? That you're a racist? > > > > No, pinhead, I was pointing out that you were painting with > > a broad stroke without anything other than circumstantial > > evidence. > > Somewhat like Dubyas utterences and Colin Powell's > "unrefutable" evidence refuted both by Hans Blick and the > international community? Or Tonee Blairs "evidence" that > was written by a university student. My Blockhead, I > would suggest you read a little more and not accept > without reflection the CNN administation spin on things > and short TV clips. Lord-all-mighty you may even learn > to think independantly and become a "homeland" threat. I don't accept without reflection. I just don't accept either sides assertions without evidence other than "Well, it looks like that could be the situation, so that must be true." > I'm sure if I went thru the founding fathers writings like > Patrick Henry and the works of the great american > authors like Mark Twain and Will Rogers I could find a > description of what sort of patriots you and Dubya are. I'm sure you know absolutely anything about me and my beliefs. > Hmmm. You aren't the guy that was brought up in an > authoritarian regime, and was proclaiming your > americanism recently are you ? No. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 08:09:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E519D1C.26058.2224675@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 18, 2003 02:40:28 AM Message-ID: <200302181407.h1IE7EdY017260@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > Or international hilarity at his numbness. But I don't > > > hold the cleverness of his, his father's, or Cheyny's > > > corporate oil company masters with disdain. I just figure > > > their aims aren't in the worlds interests. > > > > Circumstantial. Where is the proof? > > > Of the hilarious disdain ? No, of the whole thing being run for oil. > An ultra-intelligent spindoctor > aide of Chretien the Canadian Prime-Minister was > dismissed because she was overheard expressing to a > friendly jounalist friend in an aside. "What a total idiot" > You can also access the general opinion by most > journalists of Dubyas thickness in many articles not > beholden to the US administrations. His homespun > announcements usually illicits giggles by those who > know that is his real personna not a pose. And we all know journalists are impartial, right? > His main financial support even in the Texas governors > office and in his run for the presidency won only by > the Florida votes supervised by his brother ? No, won by the laws covering election of the President of the US. The Electoral College is outdated and should be scrapped, but until it is it determines the winner of the election. > and > Enron, that marvellous epitomy of corporate honesty. > But, of course Dubya, his papa, the earlier president > and former head of the CIA, and Cheney, part of both > administrations are all involved heavily in oil. > Circumstantial ? But as Dylan said you don't have to be a > weatherman to know which way the wind blows. That's right. But that doesn't have to be the main motivation. > And where is the proof of all the Bush accusations > against Iraq. Nothing has been proven. Iraq and Hussain > in any case are no threat to world security, Bush and his > administration are. Where is all the proof otherwise? Hussein did kick out the inspectors before, so there has been a lapse. Once Bush started threatening, the inspectors were let back in. > > > Oh Bennet, you flawed casualty of Republican wiles. > > > I hope you don't end up in jail regretting how much you > > > might have made if YOU had bought out the leftover Maynard > > > stock. > > > > And you don't think you are a flawed casualty of > > Democratic wiles? > > Likely. I've been against dictatorship all my life. Grew > up during the fight against fascism and Hitler. > Never outgrew the fight against it. Which led to my > fight against segregation and later against the war > in Viet-Nam in the hard days when opposition could > result in a beating by the "hard-hats". > > There's a bunch of us across the country, still alive, > unaffilliated, and you ain't seen nuthin yet. > > Let it go Eric.You're not a very intelligent opponent > and it is stringing out a thread that would be better > debated in another venue than one concerned with > classic computers, even tho it isn't in classic.tech. I agree, but to say I'm not a very intelligent opponent shows that still, you know nothing about me. To assume I'm not intelligent because I don't agree 100% percent with you shows lack of intelligence on your part. I agree we should let this go. This all started because I wanted to point out that Sellam's continual comments lead to off-topic flames, and from there people have made quite a few wrong assumptions about me and my beliefs, just because I have the audacity to question what they assume is true. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 08:11:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 18, 2003 01:32:23 AM Message-ID: <200302181408.h1IE8XaR017273@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Okay, for a legal-as-in-U.S.-courts, what do they call evidence > > that is circumstantial in nature that requires a leap of faith > > to be true? > > Colin Powell's presentation at the UN last week? There you go! Ask for facts, and Sellam jumps to make another slam on the administration! -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 08:14:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:57 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 18, 2003 01:31:43 AM Message-ID: <200302181412.h1IEC5ME017312@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > They are more to do with locking down the country so no more terrorist > > attacks can occur. The problem is when the country gets that locked down > > the freedoms we cherish disappear. When we lose all our freedoms, what > > do we have worth keeping? > > If we lock down our country and hold everyone suspect, did not The > Terrorists win? Yes, and that's the point. They've gone too far. Overhauling immigration is good. Overhauling immigration for only one group of people is bad. > > As for ignoring illegal immigration from Mexico, I find that extremely > > hypocritical. We want to tighten the borders so we are protected from > > terrorism, but we'll leave that huge sieve between Mexico and the US > > completely open? > > Who, then, will pick your lettuce? I mean no disrespect whatsoever to > Mexican folks who brave through torrid deserts to make their way to > California so they can spend 8+ hours a day stooped over in the hot > sun picking vegetables so that you can have a salad on your table. I am > quite serious. What white person, in this day and age, would ever take a > job picking lettuce for minimum wage? I am a supporter of overhauling the immigration laws and issuing new visas that let the migrant workers easily and safely get to their jobs. They are willing to do work that others in the U.S., white and non-white (funny you assume it's just the white people) are not. If they are issued visas to do the work they are going to do anyway that would make things safer and easier. > These issues are not always as simple as people want to make them. Yes, they are very complex. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 08:19:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Full-blown OT: Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 18, 2003 01:19:21 AM Message-ID: <200302181416.h1IEGPYD017346@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > No, pinhead, I was pointing out that you were painting with a > > broad stroke without anything other than circumstantial > > evidence. > > Oh, you mean like the Bush administration's evidence regarding Iraq's > weapons of mass destruction programs? Yes. There are two sides. I think both are wrong. > > > Since when does pointing out the obvious equate to "Bush-bashing"? > > > > Where is your proof? Circumstantial evidence is not proof. > > Oh, I'm sorry. You apparently didn't get the memo. The new standard in > our current US system is to provide circumstantial evidence of a claim and > then force the accused party to prove they are not guilty. Since I'm an > American citizen, I feel a right to exercise this new form of > jurisprudence myself. I saw the memo, and I don't agree with it. But just because the government can do it doesn't mean I'm going to do it. Besides, you and everyone else seem to miss the worst part of the Patriot Act II: The government wants the power to strip people suspected of, or dealing with, organizations the government declares to be terrorist in nature, of their U.S. citizenship. That's the most scary part. It has been hard in the past to strip someone of their citizenship, and there had to be a reason to declare an organization of being terrorist in nature. With PAII, they can declare it, strip people of their citizenship, then send them off. Where's the checks and balances? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 08:19:30 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <001501c2d725$316af490$5e3bcd18@D73KSM11> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Feb 18, 2003 12:10:21 AM Message-ID: <200302181417.h1IEH8bb017358@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Okay, for a legal-as-in-U.S.-courts, what do they call > > evidence that is circumstantial in nature that requires a > > leap of faith to be true? > > Conjectural. Hurray, someone provides a real answer to the question! -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From rcini at optonline.net Tue Feb 18 08:28:00 2003 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: WTD: Missing R-E issues wanted Message-ID: Hello, all: I just finished paging through a huge stack of old Radio-Electronics issues and found that I'm missing a few that contain parts of multi-part articles that I have. Here's the list, with the page number of the article, if I have it, and the author. If anyone has these issues and is willing to scan/copy these article parts, please contact me off-list. Thanks. July 1983: Part 1 Expanding the Timex 1000 /Sinclair Memory (Paul Hunter) Dec 1986: Part 1 R-E Robot (Steve Sarns) Jan 1988, p. 67: Intro REACTS Radio-Electronics Advanced Control System (Ed Roberts) Feb 1988, p. 47: Part 1 REACTS Radio-Electronics Advanced Control System (Ed Roberts) July 1988: Part 6 REACTS Radio-Electronics Advanced Control System (Ed Roberts) July 1988: Part 1 {Technology} The General Purpose Interface Bus (GPIB) (Vaughn Martin) Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From truthanl at oclc.org Tue Feb 18 08:48:00 2003 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Wanted L5-30 Outlet Receptical Message-ID: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC5088CEE63@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> Jeffery Please consider your mechanical connections and the duty cycle of this Adaptation. I have an air conditioned cruiser I keep on Lake Erie. It has two L5-30 125 V marine power feeds that come to a power distribution panel. Current ( and voltage) is constantly monitored on analog meters (two per feed, -one Volts - one Amps.) The one feed that runs only the Air Conditioner, averages 9 Amps and the other house circuit, which has a battery charger and refrigerater on it, average 5 AMPs so I thought One 30A Cable could supply the boat. ( got tired of the mess of two cables draped over the bow and decks - spider habitat! ) After a couple seasons, I made a splitter out of 10 Ga stranded copper wire using heavy set screw terminal lugs for the split connectors. I ran one 30 Amp cable 30 feet to the splitter. and then let the 20 inch splitter, split the feeds. I used all top quality 'Hubbell" marine connectors for the terminal receptical(s) & outlet(S) on the single feed cable and the splitter. Just this last season I left Air conditioner running for about two of the hottest weeks in September ( freakish -Indian summer). When I went to cast off the lines for a Fall trip to the Islands, the terminal connections on each end of the single feed cable failed due to heat. Un-twististing the twist lock at the remote receptical end was tough, then the Ground and Hot blades pulled out of the plug end at the dock outlet. I had to switch off the dock breaker and extract the blade components using needle nose pliers. My Point is the 30 Amp feed cable (the oldest component) perhaps had some vibration, or corrosion, compromised mechanical connections. Which over time (2 weeks) created enough heat to compromise ( melt) the quality parts. All my parts were rated at 30 amps, and I knew my usage was less than 19 Amps! ( If I was not in a hurry to take the splitter with me, the parts may have cooled and re-set (solidified) rather than than pulling apart. But it was truly an education in real world failure modes of decently rated parts. If you are adapting down to a 15- 20 amp plug, you will still need to be EVER mindful of the physical condition, and operating temperatures of any mechanical connections you make. Sincerely Larry Truthan Digest Subscriber From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Feb 18 08:58:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) References: <200302181407.h1IE7EdY017260@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3E524A0E.39716863@comcast.net> While I respect everybody's opinion here, and this thread _was_ interesting a little while ago, am I the only one thinking that it has gone _way_ too far, and it's now high time to kill the political discussion here? -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Feb 18 09:31:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E517D6C.6388.1A67A7D@localhost> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030217230146.05750df0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <200302180345.h1I3jsFr013604@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030218090033.00a7da90@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Lawrence, > Or international hilarity at his numbness. But I don't > hold the cleverness of his, his father's, or Cheyny's > corporate oil company masters with disdain. I just > figure their aims aren't in the worlds interests. The US government's primary interests are probably in the continuity of itself, just at Canada's government's interests are probably in the continuity of itself, just as it is also so every where else in the world. Secondary interests would be in continuity of governments of nations we are allied with, nations we rely on for imported resources, etc. Just as Lawrence Walker's primary interests ( and not I say primary, not sole ) are probably in the interest of the continuity and survival of Lawrence Walker and his family. It's the reality of the way things are. Too bad you don't live in a country sandwiched somewhere in between Iraq and Iran. Since you don't seem to like your current neighboring country to the south too very much, maybe you'd be happier with other neighbors instead? > Oh Bennet, you flawed casualty of Republican wiles. Lawrence, we just want decent paying jobs, a decent place to live, medical care, etc. It's pretty easy for you bringing in your retirement plus what you make on your eBay sales, in a country that, yes, with perhaps a higher tax rate, ensures all it's citizens get what medical care they need. Down here, at present time, I have to work for it, and when you work for yourself, starting out from scratch, you just about have to fight for it. Lawrence, poverty kills. From: "Lawrence Walker" Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 01:46:55 -0600 > Quality of life is the indicator that really matters to the most of us, > and we are rated #3 as opposed to the US's #13. > The US$ rate is quite nice when I sell on EPay. > Every Canadian retiree is guarenteed an inflation-indexed pension of > about $980 a month. With my additional pension I do just fine. > Yes we do have our "wonderful socialized health care", like virtually > all modern industrialized states, and unlike in the US where the > "health business" managed to do a head job on the people about the > dangers of "socialized" medical services. Lawrence, now you go too far. > I hope you don't end up in jail regretting how much you > might have made if YOU had bought out the leftover > Maynard stock. Wish I could have bought all they had, of just a few things. But at the time, I really hardly had two nickels to rub together. I hope you too don't end up in jail. Lawrence you are so "thrifty" it seems you'd do just about anything to keep from having to pay a cent you thought you could get out of. To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:12:04 -0500 I ship and receive goods all the time from here in Canada. Usually there is no problem, except occasionally getting dinged on this end for GST (goods and services tax). Since NAFTA (which I HATE generally), there is no duty on electronics to my knowledge. It is unecessary to disable the equipment nor does it matter where it was manufactured. Would you disable a piece of equipment to get out of paying your GST? Would you fraudulently claim on a customs document an item was a gift instead of a purchase, or try to get a seller to put a fraudulent purchase price down, to try to lower your import duties? There are people that do those type of things. I sent some items up to Canada since NAFTA was enacted, and the buyers did have to pay their PST/GST. Don't know why they would and you wouldn't? You might want to check before you have trouble over that. Lawrence, I fill out my paperwork correctly. I have a business license. I pay what taxes I owe. I don't engage in any creative accounting practices. I refuse to sell items to buyers I can't confirm the identity of. I won't provide parts for any application I have any doubt as to whether or not it is permitted by our government. I don't drink and drive. I don't do drugs. Lawrence, I've truly read some notable comments from you over the course of time. It'll probably be you in jail long before me. Best Regards, Bennett At 12:25 AM 2/18/03 -0600, you wrote: >On 17 Feb 2003, , Mail List wrote: > > > Hi Eric, > > > > And he's a president that's doing a good job. I think he > > portrays a "simple country boy" persona, but in actuality, I > > think there's a whole lot more to him than he publicaly lets > > on. Like a poker player, he holds his cards closely. And his > > father was an excellent president too. He "inherited" a > > national economic situation from the Reagan years ( and > > Ronald Reagan did good things too ) that couldn't be turned > > around quickly ( a national economy has incredible mass and > > inertia ), so he bore the blame for it and lost to Clinton. > > There's a whole lot more going on in the circles of national > > gov't. and national defense than they can let be openly > > disclosed to the world, for national defense and national > > security reasons. > > > Or international hilarity at his numbness. But I don't >hold the cleverness of his, his father's, or Cheyny's >corporate oil company masters with disdain. I just >figure their aims aren't in the worlds interests. > > Oh Bennet, you flawed casualty of Republican wiles. >I hope you don't end up in jail regretting how much you >might have made if YOU had bought out the leftover >Maynard stock. > >Lawrence > > > > At 09:45 PM 2/17/03 -0600, you wrote: > > > > > No, it was sarcasm, pointing to Sellam's Bush-bashing. > > > > > > > > Gee... isn't that comment a little extreme? I thought > > > > he was just making use of his horticultural abilities > > > > from his keyboard, verbally pruning a Shrub... > > > > > >He was doing yet more of his Bush-bashing. Not Shrub. The > > >President of the United States is named Bush. -- Eric > > >Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts > > >Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > > >lgwalker@ mts.net From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Feb 18 09:52:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DA9F@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> ... about governments, standards of living... CUT THE CRAP. SHUT UP. SHUSH. Now, get back to your old puters and do something useful again. Thanks, Fred From pzachary at sasquatch.com Tue Feb 18 10:26:00 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Emulated Peripherals References: <20030218031001.12826.52108.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E525EB6.D11244A4@sasquatch.com> I thought the oil leaks were the anti-rust system :) Pavl_ >ate: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:47:15 -0500 >From: Bob Shannon >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Emulated Peripherals >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Doh! > >All I know is the car has built-in rust protection, it won't start if it >rains or snows! > >Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Bob Shannon wrote: > >> I think thats a typo, probably was supposed to read MBC, a large >> west-coast HP support house. >> >> And yes, there are lots of MBG's, my neighbor has one in his garage! > > > That's not an MBG, it's an MGB :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 10:29:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DA9F@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Feb 18, 2003 04:49:40 PM Message-ID: <200302181626.h1IGQjEb018037@narnia.int.dittman.net> > CUT THE CRAP. SHUT UP. SHUSH. > > Now, get back to your old puters and do something useful again. Yes. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From pzachary at sasquatch.com Tue Feb 18 10:29:29 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) References: <20030218031001.12826.52108.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E525F92.3F48EB2D@sasquatch.com> why not, that's what we use it for. Pavl_ >Well, it would be a good idea to get the oil out of the hands >of the Arabs since they are using the profits to finance >terrorism. >-- >Eric Dittman >dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 10:33:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E524A0E.39716863@comcast.net> from "David Woyciesjes" at Feb 18, 2003 09:58:22 AM Message-ID: <200302181630.h1IGURwb018095@narnia.int.dittman.net> > While I respect everybody's opinion here, and this thread _was_ > interesting a little while ago, am I the only one thinking that it has > gone _way_ too far, and it's now high time to kill the political > discussion here? Yes, I really wish I'd put the smileys in so people would have known I was being sarcastic. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From pzachary at sasquatch.com Tue Feb 18 10:44:01 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) References: <20030218090835.16463.74788.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E5262ED.E91B96C2@sasquatch.com> > Since when does pointing out the obvious equate to "Bush-bashing"? > >Where is your proof? Circumstantial evidence is not proof. >- Is it just me, or does this sound like the question the whole world is asking the current administration? pavl From alhartman at yahoo.com Tue Feb 18 10:59:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #461 - 43 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030218090835.16463.74788.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030218165645.86550.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> > Yes, those damned dirty A-rabs. We all know for a > fact that they use the profits to finance terrorism > because Colin Powell showed us a pretty graphic > that proved it. All those people who have doubts > are just stupid. I don't want to start a to-do on this list, but I couldn't let this pass.. Colin Powell showed real evidence that some people who happen to be from the Middle East (Not sure if Hussein and his people are Arabs) are doing some bad stuff. The discussion is about bad people who happen to be Arab. Not that all Arabs are bad people. And it so happens, that a lot of terrorists in the world today are from the Middle East. Used to be, terrorists were Northern Irish... The fact that some of the worst incidents have been perpetrated by people from the Middle East does not make Americans, British or others wrong for noticing it. If anything, it means that it calls for others in the Middle East to speak up and use the social pressures or peers to put a stop to their fellow citizens (all these bad people must be SOMEONE'S brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, cousins, neighbors...) doing all this bad stuff. The displeasure that is aimed towards Middle Eastern people from people in the West is because this isn't happening. People are being killed daily, and instead of having Millions of people stand up and protest that.... We have millions of people stand up and protest somebody trying to put a stop to it. Yes, I think that's stupid. And I think the people who condemn the police instead of the criminals, are stupid... > We all know a good A-rab is a dead A-rab. Fuck > them. Let's go in there and take their precious > oil from them so they can never use the profits > to finance terrorism anymore. That'll end all > terrorism forever and ever and we can live happily > ever after guzzling all the free oil we want. Not all American's or Westerners believe this. While I would like that Terrorists get no money at all, from any source. And I'm pretty sure lots of Saudi money does indeed go to support terrorism. Drug money from Poppy sales also goes there, and other money goes there also. I would like to see the oil money stay in the Middle East, but used to feed and care for the people there. To provide water, sanitation, schooling, and good lives for the people in Middle Eastern countries. Rather than being spent on Terrorism, Weapons of Mass Destruction or persecution of Non Muslim peoples. That is VERY frustrating for Americans. I contribute money to charities all the time, and just get sick when I think of all the Billions of Dollars spent on weapons and death that instead should have been spent on life and making the lives of people better. People who are Anti-American, and Anti-Bush just don't know the truth about Americans or George Bush. They buy all sorts of stories that aren't true. Make up motivations that aren't real. We liberated Kuwait, but if you notice did not take the country over. We returned it to the rightful rulers. We've done the same throughout history. History shows that Americans aren't interested in ruling the world, only liberating other people to be free and happy. So, let's get back to discussing Classic Computers... Regards, Al From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 18 11:00:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302181407.h1IE7EdY017260@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > And we all know journalists are impartial, right? Well, certainly American journalists are not impartial. You'd think the way they fell in line behind our government's push for war that they were a branch of the President's public relations department. > I agree we should let this go. This all started because I wanted to > point out that Sellam's continual comments lead to off-topic flames, and > from there people have made quite a few wrong assumptions about me and > my beliefs, just because I have the audacity to question what they > assume is true. As I mentioned to you privately, I am not responsible for flame wars being started over comments I make. You have the choice NOT to reply. If I am so out of control then I will eventually fall of my own doing and will either adjust my behavior appropriately or become extinct. Have faith in that concept, because most of the time it works (especially on those that truly deserve it). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 18 11:01:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302181408.h1IE8XaR017273@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Okay, for a legal-as-in-U.S.-courts, what do they call evidence > > > that is circumstantial in nature that requires a leap of faith > > > to be true? > > > > Colin Powell's presentation at the UN last week? > > There you go! Ask for facts, and Sellam jumps to make another > slam on the administration! You wanted an example so I gave you one! :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 18 11:03:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Full-blown OT: Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200302181416.h1IEGPYD017346@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > Besides, you and everyone else seem to miss the worst part of the > Patriot Act II: The government wants the power to strip people suspected > of, or dealing with, organizations the government declares to be > terrorist in nature, of their U.S. citizenship. That's the most scary > part. It has been hard in the past to strip someone of their > citizenship, and there had to be a reason to declare an organization of > being terrorist in nature. With PAII, they can declare it, strip people > of their citizenship, then send them off. Where's the checks and > balances? Eric, this has already happened. Remember Joseph Padilla? Exactly. PAII will just put into legislation what the gubment has already assumed power to do. They just want to make it "legal". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Feb 18 11:09:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAA0@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Sellam writes: > As I mentioned to you privately, I am not responsible for > flame wars being started over comments I make. Try avoiding off-topic reactionist banter to begin with. You KNOW people are going to bite the bait and start a flame war. I have my opinions on all those events, too, and will share them with whoever wants to hear them, but ON THE APPROPRIATE CHANNELS, which means, not here. --fred From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Feb 18 11:25:01 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' Message-ID: <20030218091618.U94068@agora.rdrop.com> In my never ending attempts to find more space, I've started sorting thru the book vaults and culling out the duplicates. Following is this week's sortings. In general, any book listed will go for $7.50 delivered in CONUS unless otherwise noted. Where there are multiples this will be noted. If you are outside of 'states', please drop me a note to sort out postage. Available volumes: Digital Microcomputer Handbook 1977-78 (5 available) Digital PDP-11 Peripherals Handbook 1976 (3 available) Digital Microcomputer Products Handbook 1985 Digital Logic Handbook 1970 Digital Programming Languages 1970 V2 Digital Labratory Computer Handbook 1971 First Called, First Served! As-Is, where is! All are readable and appear complete, but remember they are old. More later; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Feb 18 11:28:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030218035946.GB9232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <200302180319.h1I3JXD6013308@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3E514FD8.4737.F46940@localhost> <200302180319.h1I3JXD6013308@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030218122227.01cb66a0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that R. D. Davis may have mentioned these words: >Quothe Eric Dittman, from writings of Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 09:19:33PM -0600: > > No, it was sarcasm, pointing to Sellam's Bush-bashing. > >Gee... isn't that comment a little extreme? I thought he was just >making use of his horticultural abilities from his keyboard, verbally >pruning a Shrub... If it was horticultural, it seemed a lot more to me like manure-spreading - one of the few things in which "close only counts..." [[ This is not indicative of whether I agree with the Prez or not... only calling 'em as I see 'em... ]] Laterz, "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Feb 18 11:29:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Harris 6100 CPUs Message-ID: <008b01c2d772$ee653950$46f8b8ce@impac.com> I've got a line on some "early run" Harris 6100 CPUs (with data sheets) in "unmarked ceramic packages" for $10 per. I'm interested in one or two for some odd reason (I guess I want one or two of everything, when you come right down to it. . . :) but the seller has about 10-12 for sale. Is anyone else interested in these? Are they worth the $10? I'll be happy to be the clearinghouse on these for anyone who is interested (I'll buy them and forward them along for cost.) Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From marvin at rain.org Tue Feb 18 11:30:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Damn It was Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) References: <200302180643.h1I6h0ot014731@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3E526D34.788406E2@rain.org> I joined this list to see discussion of Classic Computers, not a bunch of childish oneupsmanship political comments. Sheesh, why doesn't everyone contributing to this crap just shut up!!! Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Or international hilarity at his numbness. But I don't > > hold the cleverness of his, his father's, or Cheyny's > > corporate oil company masters with disdain. I just > > figure their aims aren't in the worlds interests. > > Circumstantial. Where is the proof? > > > Oh Bennet, you flawed casualty of Republican wiles. > > I hope you don't end up in jail regretting how much you > > might have made if YOU had bought out the leftover > > Maynard stock. > > And you don't think you are a flawed casualty of > Democratic wiles? > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Feb 18 11:40:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <008f01c2d774$6c640e70$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Coincidentally I just spent much of the past week going through dozens of old CPMUG disks. I saw Ward's name throughout much of the collection. Now that I've cataloged the contents of these disks I need to figure out how best to get the files over to a more transportable format then 8" media. Erik S. Klein -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:42 AM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago Tribune. Not the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important event in computer history. http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D0 3021 60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology Bob From dmabry at mich.com Tue Feb 18 11:52:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS References: <008f01c2d774$6c640e70$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <3E52721A.6070401@mich.com> I can offer this if it helps. I have a CP/M system that reads standard IBM-formatted single-sided single-density 8" diskettes (seems kinda funny to call those monsterous things disk"ettes", doesn't it?). I can transfer files, using Kermit, to a PC and make CDs. Just a thought. I live in the Detroit area. Erik S. Klein wrote: > Coincidentally I just spent much of the past week going through dozens > of old CPMUG disks. I saw Ward's name throughout much of the > collection. > > Now that I've cataloged the contents of these disks I need to figure out > how best to get the files over to a more transportable format then 8" > media. > > Erik S. Klein > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert > Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:42 AM > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS > > The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago Tribune. > Not > the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important > event in > computer history. > http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D0 > 3021 > 60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology > > > Bob > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 18 11:52:37 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > If your 486 is a DX, if you have 64Mb RAM, and if you had 20Mb of disk space 16M (and we have done it with 8M) > to spare (minimum requirements for W98, excepting W98SE), you can load W98 You can run full Win98, INCLUDING SE, with 16M. You do NOT need 64M!!! > in its "lite" or laptop version from bootable disks. W95's another matter ANY version, not "lite", not "laptop". > though -- You'd need a copy of DOS 5.0 or better up and running to load it. NO. You need ANY DOS prompt that permits access to the CD-ROM (>= 3.10), and can do it with a floppy boot from MS-DOS 7.00 or 7.10 (which you get by doing a FORMAT A: /S of a floppy in a Windoze 95/98 machine) > Either way, you'll also need to remember your formatting and partitioning: > 98/85 run on FAT16, and are limited to 2GB partitions (98SE allows FAT32, ^^ "85"?? > and can hand 4TB partitions). Is/are your drive(s) compatible? ALMOST. FAT16 will run anything from 3.31 through ANY version of Windoze that can be squeezed into 2G of disk space. FAT32 started with Win95 OSR1. OSR1 was only available as an OEM version. You can INSTALL to a FAT16 partition (95, 98), and then let Windoze "convert" it to FAT32. Normally successfully, and hardly ever does a total destruction of the drive/file contents. But it is ONE WAY. MICROS~1 provides NO way to convert it back. If you have >32M? RAM and a FAT16 partition, you could install NT4, (which will gladly convert (ONE WAY) from FAT16 to NTFS. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 18 11:54:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030218053633.GD9232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > And he's a president that's doing a good job. I think he portrays There is WAY TOO MUCH sarcasm on the list lately. From pzachary at sasquatch.com Tue Feb 18 11:55:00 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Harris 6100 CPUs References: <008b01c2d772$ee653950$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <3E527393.4EC27EC5@sasquatch.com> "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > > I've got a line on some "early run" Harris 6100 CPUs (with data sheets) > in "unmarked ceramic packages" for $10 per. I'm interested in one or > two for some odd reason (I guess I want one or two of everything, when > you come right down to it. . . :) but the seller has about 10-12 for > sale. > > Is anyone else interested in these? Are they worth the $10? I'll be > happy to be the clearinghouse on these for anyone who is interested > (I'll buy them and forward them along for cost.) > > Erik S. Klein > www.vintage-computer.com as for the value, a couple years back, I bought some plastic parts without doc's for $7/ea, so $10 seems sort of reasonable, for a out of production part with no actual application... I see someone needs to make a single-board pdp-8 based on the 6100 to compete(or keep company) bob's 6120 design... I have some late ones, but,sure I'd like one let me know what the total is Pavl_ From pzachary at sasquatch.com Tue Feb 18 12:13:01 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: looking to get a VAX 11/750 Message-ID: <3E5277C3.A811C557@sasquatch.com> It seemed to me before I called up someone out on the east coast and bought a VAX-11/750 for $150=/- then spent $250 or so shipping it that I should try the list. I want a VAX 11/750 for old times sake and as a peripheral for my pdp-11s... anyone have one for sale/trade/...? Thought I'd rather a local had the money to buy inflated pdp-8 spares or something than giving it all to a shipping company. I'm located in santa Cruz CA and am willing to pick up within a couple hundred miles. I would really like to get out of this for less than $400 (really $250 seems like a fair price(that's what they sold the one I ran out from under me when the funding ran out and I was on vacation for (rant ends)) but I'll take what I can get) further, I have much of a card set and a power supply or two, so if I get a incomplete one that's O.K. thanks, Pavl_ sorry about the joining in of the rant/flame thing RE:politics, I can usually restrain myself but sometimes when it goes on... and to respond to the digest-delayed list makes it worse I know(I've at least changed the last bit) From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 18 12:17:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Wanted: L5-30 Receptacle or Adapter in US In-Reply-To: <343224696.20030217072125@subatomix.com> References: <343224696.20030217072125@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <32869.64.169.63.74.1045592114.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jeffrey Sharp asks: > I'm looking for someone in the US with a L5-30 receptacle or an adapter > so that I can plug my L5-30-plugged DEC 861PC Power Controller into a > standard wall outlet. Thanks! 30A twist-lock receptacles aren't all that hard to find. I got one at the local Home Depot store. They can also be found at Greybar Electric, though their prices are generally a bit higher. Of course, you aren't supposed to just replace an 5-15R with an L5-30R, you also need wiring that's rated for 30A. If you build an adapter to a 15A plug, it would be a good idea to put a 15A breaker in the adapter. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Feb 18 12:20:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <3E52721A.6070401@mich.com> Message-ID: <009401c2d77a$24078610$46f8b8ce@impac.com> The disks in question are IBM format SS/SD and I've got an Altos system with dual drives that I can read them with. I've got my PC hooked up as the terminal at the moment and all I really need is a transfer program that I can run on the Altos to move the files through the serial cable. I found some old MODEM7 and XMODEM (I think) software on some of the disks but I'm not sure if those will work (yet). If I could get a copy of Kermit on 8" I'm pretty sure it would make this easier. Once the disk contents are available on the PC side I'll probably make them available on my website even though I'm fairly certain that a ton of the stuff is duplicated at other sites. I've got a bunch of other software on DS/DD disks that are incompatible with any of my current gear. I'm waiting to get the machine capable of reading those. . . Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dave Mabry Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 9:49 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS I can offer this if it helps. I have a CP/M system that reads standard IBM-formatted single-sided single-density 8" diskettes (seems kinda funny to call those monsterous things disk"ettes", doesn't it?). I can transfer files, using Kermit, to a PC and make CDs. Just a thought. I live in the Detroit area. Erik S. Klein wrote: > Coincidentally I just spent much of the past week going through dozens > of old CPMUG disks. I saw Ward's name throughout much of the > collection. > > Now that I've cataloged the contents of these disks I need to figure out > how best to get the files over to a more transportable format then 8" > media. > > Erik S. Klein > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert > Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:42 AM > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS > > The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago Tribune. > Not > the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important > event in > computer history. > http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D0 > 3021 > 60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology > > > Bob > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Feb 18 12:23:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20030218053633.GD9232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030218131703.00a23330@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> HI FRED, I REALLY MEANT IT. I'M GLAD THE AIRLINES ARE FLYING AGAIN. I'M GLAD IT FEELS SAFE TO OPEN THE MAIL AGAIN. I'M GLAD TO SEE SOMETHING IS BEING DONE TO TRY AND PREVENT ANOTHER 9/11 INCIDENT. I ACTUALLY DO RESPECT THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. I GUESS YOU WERE AN AL GORE VOTER? At 09:51 AM 2/18/03 -0800, you wrote: > > And he's a president that's doing a good job. I think he portrays > >There is WAY TOO MUCH sarcasm on the list lately. From jwest at kwcorp.com Tue Feb 18 12:43:21 2003 From: jwest at kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) Message-ID: <021901c2d6c0$0ddf5440$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I noticed the docs on maincoon for the RL02 were all in tiff format. I got them all converted to pdf in case someone needs them in that format and doesn't have the tiff to pdf conversion utilities. If more than a few people ask I'll put them up on classiccmp.org. Jay West From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 18 12:52:13 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: <3E51BD8E.4030207@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I did try Win 3.1 on my old 286-12, with about 1-1.5 megs of memory. > It was so slow, it took it a few minutes to finish crashing :-) I don't know what you were doing wrong. I did quite a bit of useful work on Windows 3.11 running on a 286-8 with 1MB RAM. Ran just fine. Peace... Sridhar From beegee at eastlink.net Tue Feb 18 12:53:23 2003 From: beegee at eastlink.net (Bob Gaddis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Victor Computer anyone? Message-ID: <000301c2d718$492f0380$6c372acf@5w0gv01> We had several Victor 9000's. They ran CP/M and a proprietary MS-DOS. They had built-in codec. They actually predated the IBM PC back in 1980. They were the best available computers at the time, when the TRS-80 was prevalent on the market. My dad still may have one on his closet shelf. I threw mine away when I bought my first PC clone, a 4mhz, 4 mb ram 386SX. From badoni_nk at yahoo.com Tue Feb 18 12:53:52 2003 From: badoni_nk at yahoo.com (nk badoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11------II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030218172723.99600.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Hello John Thankyou very much for your kind reply. Yes it is a complete system. I have checked Kermit in this system but I could not find this S/W there. Might be my process was wrong. And if it is there how can I access Kermit(how to find wheather Kermit is there or not). Is there any command for Kermit. Please suggest me how to find wheather Kermit is there or not. /******** Incase if kermit will not be installed then how can I transfer the data. ********/ Basically it is the text data which I want to transfer to the winnt PC. This system is having 8" floopy drive & I also wants to transfer files from 8" floopies to PC. These files are important for me & I want to make backup for these files into the another PC having WIN NT. Please advice me I will be very thankful to you. I am in India. Best regards Kishore --- John Lawson wrote: > > > Hello Kishore. You do not give enough information > to allow us to be of > much help. > > > Is this a complete system, or do you just have the > diskdrive itself? > > If you have the whole machine, then most likely a > program called 'Kermit' > is installed - you need to also have the Windows > version of Kermit on your > PC, and then connect the serial ports together with > a cable. OR, if you > are lucky enough to have a newer DEC machine with > Ethernet, you can just > hook them up that way. > > If you have only the Drive - is it MFM? EDSI? > SCSI? > > Is it just data you need? ASCII? HEX? Are there > existing programs that > you would need to execute after transferring? Are > they MACRO11? FORTRAN? > BASIC? Pascal? etc... would you need to run one > of the PDP emulators on > your PC? IS this for commercial use? Are you going > to need to license the > OS (from Mentec)? > > Also, where are you? If in the US or Canada, and > you only have the drive > (and the data is important or critical) I would > suggest that you assemble > a DEC system and install the Drive in it, then use > Kermit. If you can't > do that, perhaps you can send the drive to someone > who would install it, > extract the info, and return it to you. Just for > example, I have a > PDP-11/44 system with EDSI drives, 8" floppies, and > a 14" removable-pack > drive. It runs RSX 11M+ V5.03. If possible, you > should know these details > about your Drive, as all of this makes a large > difference in just how to > take the data off. > > You should write your message again to the > classiccmp list, and give all > the details you can think of. That way, we can > steer you in the right > direction. > > > Cheers > > John > > > REF: > > >Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:38:58 -0800 (PST) > >From: nk badoni > >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11 > > > >Hello > > > >I am Kishore. > > > >Could you please tell me that how can I tranfer the > >files from Winchester Disk having RSX-11/PDP format > >into a PC having Win NT operating system. > > > >Kishore From sieler at allegro.com Tue Feb 18 12:54:23 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Cromemco System 3 available in Scotland In-Reply-To: <200302160106.RAA10668@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3E5207FF.31722.9BA1AB3@localhost> Hi, I received an email from a guy in Scotland, who says he has a Cromemco System 3 available: "in good condition although I haven't powered it up in a long time". Other than his name/email address, all I know about it is listed above! If anyone is interested, please email me (not the list). I'll pass the first reply or two on to him. thanks, Stan -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Feb 18 12:54:53 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Cheap to a good home... Message-ID: Trying to clear out some more space, and I figure some people might want some of this stuff. * Macintosh Plus 1Mb. It starts up to a flashing disk "?" icon... I don't have any floppies laying around to try booting it off of. No keyboard/mouse. $10 * IBM RS/6000 Model 370 - 32MB or 64MB of ram, depending on what I can scrounge together. Also has Gt3 or Gt4 (option 1-5) audio, network riser card, floppy drive, 1G or so hard drive, AIX 3.1.5 (I think) installed. $20 Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Feb 18 12:55:23 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Snow for Hacking (was: Damn It was Re: Going OT...) In-Reply-To: <3E526D34.788406E2@rain.org> References: <200302180643.h1I6h0ot014731@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3E526D34.788406E2@rain.org> Message-ID: <20030218190426.GA10281@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Marvin Johnston, from writings of Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 09:28:20AM -0800: > I joined this list to see discussion of Classic Computers, not a bunch > of childish oneupsmanship political comments. Sheesh, why doesn't > everyone contributing to this crap just shut up!!! Hmmm... try subscribing to the right list... cctech, or whatever it is. :-) This is cctalk. You're not one of the federal spooks trying to silence dissent, are you? Anyway, I agree, we really do need to get back to discussing classic computers. Has all this snow on parts of the US east coast given anyone more spare time to come up with any interesting hacks or more time spent on restoration? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 18 12:56:19 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: <3E51BD8E.4030207@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Win95 WILL run on a 12MHz 386SX. But it needs more than 4M RAM if you > I see. I never tried it on my sisters 386sx-25, since I thought the DX > was a requirement. At various times, MICROS~1 has RECOMMENDED a DX and faster speed, but Win95 can't tell the difference. > I did try Win 3.1 on my old 286-12, with about 1-1.5 megs of memory. It > was so slow, it took it a few minutes to finish crashing :-) One informal benchmark for reliability has often been "how long it will run before crashing". MICROS~1 has achieved a new way to improve their numbers on that! From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Feb 18 12:56:50 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Transfer of Files From RSX-11 (fwd) Message-ID: I wrote this gentleman off-list (as the S/N ratio is rather out of hand just now) and asked some basic questions... mainly trying to find if he had just a disk, or the who thing. Follows is my reply to his response; if anyone can jump in with more or better info for him, please respond directly and cc: the list. The meta question is: what's he gonna do with the system once the data is mined?? Cheers John ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:47:25 -0500 (EST) From: John Lawson To: nk badoni Subject: Re: Transfer of Files From RSX-11 On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, nk badoni wrote: > Hello John > > Thank you very much for your kind reply. > > Yes it is a complete system. Ah... this makes the process *much* easier! A bit of info now would be: what is the model of your DEC system? (ie PDP 11/23, VAX 11/750, PRO350... etc) > > I have checked Kermit but I could not find this S/W > there. Might be my process was wrong. Hmmm... a lot of RSX systems had Kermit as part of the Distribution Kit.. you can try: MCR> DIR kerm*.*,* but if your disk is big and you CPU slow, this can take upto an hour to complete. OR, you can use a Terminal Emulating program on your Wintel machine (I use VanDyke's CRT on my IBM Thinkpad running Win2K). Then, find the file(s) you want, and use the RSK 'type' command to list them to the port you are attached (logically and physically) to. Use your terminal program's "logging" or "screen capture" function, and... there you are! The files are safe on your PC. (This assumes you have a multi-port set of serial terminal connectors attached to the computer. This procedure can also be done using the PC terminal emulator attached to the DEC system console port. The object is to list the files as an ASCII stream and capture that listing on the PC's HD. This will work with any storage media on your DEC computer, HDs or Floppies, by the way. Please write to the classiccmp list during this process, and we will all try to help out as much as possible. I will also forward this correspondence to the List. Cheers John From ssj152 at charter.net Tue Feb 18 13:03:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: RARE Vintage DEC/Heathkit LSI-11/H-11A w/S/W back on eBay Message-ID: <060a01c2d780$0a739d50$0200a8c0@cosmo> It's BACKKKK - the H11 that the guy was asking $6-7K for is back, this time he will accept only $2,992.92 for it. The URL is:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3402466712&category=419 3 Anyone need a H11 with LOTS of software?? I wish I had it... Oh well. Stuart Johnson From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Feb 18 13:06:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Cheap to a good home... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > * IBM RS/6000 Model 370 - 32MB or 64MB of ram, depending on what I can > scrounge together. Also has Gt3 or Gt4 (option 1-5) audio, network riser > card, floppy drive, 1G or so hard drive, AIX 3.1.5 (I think) installed. > $20 Oops, that should be Gt3/Gt4 framebuffer (video) not audio... Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Feb 18 13:06:30 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Snow for Hacking (was: Damn It was Re: Going OT...) References: <200302180643.h1I6h0ot014731@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3E526D34.788406E2@rain.org> <20030218190426.GA10281@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3E528303.3000300@jetnet.ab.ca> R. D. Davis wrote: > Anyway, I agree, we really do need to get back to discussing classic > computers. Has all this snow on parts of the US east coast given > anyone more spare time to come up with any interesting hacks or more > time spent on restoration? > Or even a place to hide under the BIG iron while the storm breaks. Ben. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Feb 18 13:13:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > I did try Win 3.1 on my old 286-12, with about 1-1.5 megs of memory. > > It was so slow, it took it a few minutes to finish crashing :-) > > I don't know what you were doing wrong. I did quite a bit of useful work > on Windows 3.11 running on a 286-8 with 1MB RAM. Ran just fine. ISTR that Win3.11 had a switch to run either in "Real" or "Standard" mode. I may have the terms wrong, but one was for low power machines. Doc From joe_web at worldonline.fr Tue Feb 18 13:17:01 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: Cheap to a good home... References: Message-ID: <007601c2d782$bc9cace0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> hello, i'm interet, do you ship to france? thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 7:42 PM Subject: Cheap to a good home... > Trying to clear out some more space, and I figure some people might want > some of this stuff. > > * Macintosh Plus 1Mb. It starts up to a flashing disk "?" icon... I don't > have any floppies laying around to try booting it off of. No > keyboard/mouse. $10 > > * IBM RS/6000 Model 370 - 32MB or 64MB of ram, depending on what I can > scrounge together. Also has Gt3 or Gt4 (option 1-5) audio, network riser > card, floppy drive, 1G or so hard drive, AIX 3.1.5 (I think) installed. > $20 > > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From quapla at xs4all.nl Tue Feb 18 13:19:00 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) References: <021901c2d6c0$0ddf5440$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E52850D.9BF0DB85@xs4all.nl> Jay, Please do. Although I don't need them myself, there will be certainly other list members who would like to see these docs in pdf format too. Ed Jay West wrote: > > I noticed the docs on maincoon for the RL02 were all in tiff format. I got > them all converted to pdf in case someone needs them in that format and > doesn't have the tiff to pdf conversion utilities. If more than a few people > ask I'll put them up on classiccmp.org. > > Jay West -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn onbetrouwbaar quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Wie mij te na komt zal het weten. '97 TL1000S | From jwillis at arielusa.com Tue Feb 18 13:20:01 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: looking to get a VAX 11/750 Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB788@deathstar.arielnet.com> Who was your contact on the east coast? I'm in New Mexico and have a VAX 11/750 that I've been struggling to complete. If it was $250 for shipping + $150 for the VAX, I'd be quite inclined to let mine go for $250 and then spend the extra $150 to get a complete one from the east coast person. -----Original Message----- From: pzachary Sent: Tue 2/18/2003 11:13 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: looking to get a VAX 11/750 It seemed to me before I called up someone out on the east coast and bought a VAX-11/750 for $150=/- then spent $250 or so shipping it that I should try the list. I want a VAX 11/750 for old times sake and as a peripheral for my pdp-11s... anyone have one for sale/trade/...? Thought I'd rather a local had the money to buy inflated pdp-8 spares or something than giving it all to a shipping company. I'm located in santa Cruz CA and am willing to pick up within a couple hundred miles. I would really like to get out of this for less than $400 (really $250 seems like a fair price(that's what they sold the one I ran out from under me when the funding ran out and I was on vacation for (rant ends)) but I'll take what I can get) further, I have much of a card set and a power supply or two, so if I get a incomplete one that's O.K. thanks, Pavl_ sorry about the joining in of the rant/flame thing RE:politics, I can usually restrain myself but sometimes when it goes on... and to respond to the digest-delayed list makes it worse I know(I've at least changed the last bit) [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 18 13:28:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:58 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) In-Reply-To: <021901c2d6c0$0ddf5440$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030218143228.3f47d796@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Jay, I'd like to see them posted on the web. Failing that can you e-mail me a copy? Joe At 02:06 PM 2/17/03 -0600, you wrote: >I noticed the docs on maincoon for the RL02 were all in tiff format. I got >them all converted to pdf in case someone needs them in that format and >doesn't have the tiff to pdf conversion utilities. If more than a few people >ask I'll put them up on classiccmp.org. > >Jay West From chu at verizon.net Tue Feb 18 13:39:00 2003 From: chu at verizon.net (chu@verizon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:59 2005 Subject: Help with my PDP 11/73 Message-ID: <20030218193641.LSBJ10203.pop017.verizon.net@[192.168.129.99]> Hi, Thanks. Big success and then a new problem. I took out the top three levels of my cards and reseated them. There's a lot of corrosion on the contacts so it inserts only with difficulty. Anyway it booted up ONCE and I saw lines indicating that RSX11-Mplus was starting up. It went through an initialization script and then I/O to the console terminal died. I have not been able to get any more output from the console. So my next problem is to figure out what happened. Progress is being made. One big good thing, at least my disk has to be working. Dave Chu Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:55:25 -0600 From: Jeffrey Sharp To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Help with my PDP 11/73 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org On Monday, February 17, 2003, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > 0 A-B > V >> 1 A-B >> v >> 2 A-B >> v >> 3 A-B -> C-D >> v >> 4 A-B <- C-D >> v >> 5 A-B -> C-D >> v >> 6 A-B <- C-D For a decent Qbus primer, see here: http://telnet.hu/hamster/dr/qbus.html It seems to be loading quite slowly ATM. Good luck. -- Jeffrey Sharp From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Feb 18 13:45:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:59 2005 Subject: Cheap to a good home... References: Message-ID: <005101c2d785$8f253e00$0400fea9@game> How much would it cost to ship the RS/6000 to Ohio? Any software for the unit? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 1:42 PM Subject: Cheap to a good home... > Trying to clear out some more space, and I figure some people might want > some of this stuff. > > * Macintosh Plus 1Mb. It starts up to a flashing disk "?" icon... I don't > have any floppies laying around to try booting it off of. No > keyboard/mouse. $10 > > * IBM RS/6000 Model 370 - 32MB or 64MB of ram, depending on what I can > scrounge together. Also has Gt3 or Gt4 (option 1-5) audio, network riser > card, floppy drive, 1G or so hard drive, AIX 3.1.5 (I think) installed. > $20 > > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Feb 18 13:48:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:59 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question Message-ID: That was Win 3.0, which was the last that could run on an 8088/8086/80186. It had Real (Win /R), Standard (Win /2 or Win /S), and 386 Enhanced (Win /3). Win 3.1 is restricted to the two Protected modes (Standard or 386 Enhanced). -----Original Message----- From: Doc Shipley [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 1:10 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > I did try Win 3.1 on my old 286-12, with about 1-1.5 megs of memory. > > It was so slow, it took it a few minutes to finish crashing :-) > > I don't know what you were doing wrong. I did quite a bit of useful work > on Windows 3.11 running on a 286-8 with 1MB RAM. Ran just fine. ISTR that Win3.11 had a switch to run either in "Real" or "Standard" mode. I may have the terms wrong, but one was for low power machines. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 18 13:49:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:59 2005 Subject: RS-232 Problem (Configuration ?) In-Reply-To: <3E512F9B.22212.AFCB82@localhost> from "Mike Davis" at Feb 17, 3 06:53:15 pm Message-ID: > Let me start off by saying "I hate RS-232". Anyway, now that that's I know the feeling. I do battle with it far too often, and it takes too much of my time. No 2 manufacturers seem to use the signals the same way... > out of the way, I am having a problem with an RS-232 interface on an > IMSAI SIO board. > > I've been debugging a North Star drive and I was having problems with > it booting (DOS 2) in my IMSAI. I would get the "*" prompt but OS OK, I have the schematic in front of me. > would not recognize my Soroc terminal input. At first I thought it > might be buggy code on my DOS floppy. > > Anyway, to make a long story short, I have multiple of everything and > have ruled out everything but something to do with my RS-232 > configuration (I guess). I have 2 SIO board and both behave the same > way. > > I'm documenting what I have here, in case someone sees something > wrong that I've overlooked. BTW, this was previously working without > any different configuration or hardware, with the exception of the RS- > 232 cable from the Soroc to the IMSAI. This is a brand new cable > that was working just a few weeks ago so I'm having a hard time > believing there is anything wrong with this cable. I have only one, > if you can believe that. I'm going to get another this weekend, if I > have not figured this problem out by then. > > Anyway... > > I'm using Port A (on the SIO) and have configured the A3 Jumper to > have > > TD Pin 1 to Pin 15 RD > RD Pin 2 to Pin 16 TD > RTS Pin 4 to Pin 12 CTS > CTS Pin 5 to Pin 13 RTS > DTR Pin 7 to Pin 9 DSR > DSR Pin 8 to Pin 10 DTR OK, that seems like a possible configuration. The schematic shows that pins 9, 10, 12, 13, 15 ,16 go to pins on the cable connector, so the correct wiring of this jumper block depends on the cable. [...] > 1) Is the A3 header correct for the IMSAI as the computer end and the > Soroc as the terminal. 3 pairs crossed over. It does write to the > Terminal properly and when I press the Break Key, I get an echo from > the IMSAI of *?, which seems normal. The fact that you get valid output from the Imsai to the terminal suggests that you've not got the connections crossed over (i.e the data output at one end is going to the input at the other). What have you done with pin 3 of the A3 jumper? Ift surely should be tied low (disabling the current loop circuit), or the '08 gate at C4a will be inhibited. This will prevent data input. > Anyone see something bonehead that I overlooked? Waht I would do at this point is look at the RxD and handshake input pins at the 8251 USART at B5 on the board.See if you can get a data stream at the RxD pin, and that the handshake lines are asserted (low). If not, then you know where to start looking. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 18 13:50:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:59 2005 Subject: Slide rule article in today's Wall Street Journal In-Reply-To: <20030218063828.68329.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> from "evan" at Feb 17, 3 10:38:28 pm Message-ID: > Hi listmates, some might be interested in this: > > - Evan K. > > ========================= > > Calculating Collector Scours Globe Hunting for Slide > Rules [...] > Slide rules, which resemble either rulers or discs, There are also the cylindrical type, with helical scales. Normally they only have the the equivalent of the C and D scales (simple logarithmic scales) so can only be used for mulitiplication and division, but those scales are pretty long as a resuit of them being wrapped round the cylinder. > were a boon to the mathematically minded and a bane to > everyone else. To multiply two times two, for example, > the user moves the "zero" of one scale to the number > two on another scale. Then the user looks at the > number two on the first scale, and above that is the > number four. > > Confused? So were many other people, which is why the I am confused too. I am very confused by a 'zero' on a logarithmic scale! > slide-rule industry took a big hit in 1972, when > Hewlett-Packard Co. launched its first scientific > hand-held calculator. Almost overnight, demand for The HP35. An amazing little machine for the time. And it's suprising how many of those are still working 30 years later! [...] > But slide rules are more than quirky bric-a-brac to > the true believers. Many engineers still swear by > them. Some teachers today are reintroducing the > devices into classrooms, arguing that they foster > more-complex thought processes than electronic > calculators do. At the University of California in San One advantage of the slide rule is that it only gives the mantissa. You have to calculate the exponent -- the order of magnitude -- separately. It therefore encourages you to develop the skill of doing order of magnitude calculations in your head, something that is not hard to do, and which prevents silly mistakes. I've lost count of the number of times I've been given answers which are rediculously wrong (things like needing a 2.5 GOhm resistor for an LED limiter, or that the wavelength of the dominant line in sodium light was 5 metres). As an aside, I was once teaching a student how to calculate the resistor values he needed. The problem simplified to a potential divider, and I asked him for a calculator. Intending to confuse me, he handed me a slide rule (Hint : I know what most calculating devices are, and how to use them). I pointed out this was the ideal thing. I set the ratio of the 2 resistors on the C and D scales, and looked along for places where prefered values lined up. From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Feb 18 13:52:00 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? - fixed! In-Reply-To: <20030213170100.64543.30522.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: All, The result: Replacing the electrolytic capacitor on the lower leg of the voltage divider feeding the reset comparator did the trick. The system is now up and running normally (but I've forgotten the password! Hope I wrote it down, else I'll have to re-build the system...). Many thanks to Tony D. (who guessed right the first time), Toth, Peter, Antonio, and anyone else I've forgotten. Sorry it took so long to report - I just this morning got my friend at work to put the new capacitor in place. I still have the presumed leaky capacitor he took out, but have not tested it. Details of the problem are (presumably) in the archives; in brief, the primary symptom is that the system won't come out of reset (the code LED's on the back won't start flashing) on power-up, or falls back into reset peridically while running. Anyone with similar problems, I'll be happy to relate my full story and send pictures if desired. I *love* being on this list! Thanks again to all! - Mark From jwillis at arielusa.com Tue Feb 18 13:54:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: WANTED: IBM PS/2 Model 65 SX or Model 80 386 Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB789@deathstar.arielnet.com> Wanted: IBM PS/2 Model 65 SX or IBM PS/2 Model 80 386 these are the full-tower PS/2 systems From kenziem at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 18 13:59:01 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: Victor Computer anyone? In-Reply-To: <000301c2d718$492f0380$6c372acf@5w0gv01> References: <000301c2d718$492f0380$6c372acf@5w0gv01> Message-ID: <20030218195712.NTAX13046.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Tuesday 18 February 2003 01:37, Bob Gaddis wrote: > We had several Victor 9000's. They ran CP/M and a proprietary MS-DOS. They > had built-in codec. They actually predated the IBM PC back in 1980. They > were the best available computers at the time, when the TRS-80 was > prevalent on the market. My dad still may have one on his closet shelf. I > threw mine away when I bought my first PC clone, a 4mhz, 4 mb ram 386SX. Where are these located? From pzachary at sasquatch.com Tue Feb 18 14:02:26 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: looking to get a VAX 11/750/ dec parts in fire... References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB788@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <3E529170.8647B963@sasquatch.com> I spoke to -north tennasee tool and die clarksville, TN 37043 931-647-0675 virtualclarksville.com they had a VAX 11/750 4-RA8? drives and a TS11 in a H960 rack that were damaged/destroyed in a fire last week, anybody local enough to see if anything is salvagable, seems like someone would want at least the H960... Pavl_ From ipscone at msdsite.com Tue Feb 18 14:03:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: RS-232 Problem (Configuration ?) In-Reply-To: References: <3E512F9B.22212.AFCB82@localhost> from "Mike Davis" at Feb Message-ID: <33477.130.76.32.15.1045598431.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> The problem turned out to be a conflict between two different I/O boards. I had an MIO in the system and apparently it was mapped to the same location as the SIO. So when the control was read, it was an ANDING of the status from both USARTS (I'm presuming here; have not actually checked out the MIO yet). But when I removed the MIO board, it all began to work properly. So, problem is solved. Thanks, Mike >> Let me start off by saying "I hate RS-232". Anyway, now that that's > > I know the feeling. I do battle with it far too often, and it takes too > much of my time. No 2 manufacturers seem to use the signals the same > way... > >> out of the way, I am having a problem with an RS-232 interface on an >> IMSAI SIO board. >> >> I've been debugging a North Star drive and I was having problems with >> it booting (DOS 2) in my IMSAI. I would get the "*" prompt but OS > > OK, I have the schematic in front of me. > >> would not recognize my Soroc terminal input. At first I thought it >> might be buggy code on my DOS floppy. >> >> Anyway, to make a long story short, I have multiple of everything and >> have ruled out everything but something to do with my RS-232 >> configuration (I guess). I have 2 SIO board and both behave the same >> way. >> >> I'm documenting what I have here, in case someone sees something >> wrong that I've overlooked. BTW, this was previously working without >> any different configuration or hardware, with the exception of the RS- >> 232 cable from the Soroc to the IMSAI. This is a brand new cable >> that was working just a few weeks ago so I'm having a hard time >> believing there is anything wrong with this cable. I have only one, >> if you can believe that. I'm going to get another this weekend, if I >> have not figured this problem out by then. >> >> Anyway... >> >> I'm using Port A (on the SIO) and have configured the A3 Jumper to >> have >> >> TD Pin 1 to Pin 15 RD >> RD Pin 2 to Pin 16 TD >> RTS Pin 4 to Pin 12 CTS >> CTS Pin 5 to Pin 13 RTS >> DTR Pin 7 to Pin 9 DSR >> DSR Pin 8 to Pin 10 DTR > > OK, that seems like a possible configuration. The schematic shows that > pins 9, 10, 12, 13, 15 ,16 go to pins on the cable connector, so the > correct wiring of this jumper block depends on the cable. > > [...] > >> 1) Is the A3 header correct for the IMSAI as the computer end and the >> Soroc as the terminal. 3 pairs crossed over. It does write to the >> Terminal properly and when I press the Break Key, I get an echo from >> the IMSAI of *?, which seems normal. > > The fact that you get valid output from the Imsai to the terminal > suggests that you've not got the connections crossed over (i.e the data > output at one end is going to the input at the other). > > What have you done with pin 3 of the A3 jumper? Ift surely should be > tied low (disabling the current loop circuit), or the '08 gate at C4a > will be inhibited. This will prevent data input. > >> Anyone see something bonehead that I overlooked? > > Waht I would do at this point is look at the RxD and handshake input > pins at the 8251 USART at B5 on the board.See if you can get a data > stream at the RxD pin, and that the handshake lines are asserted (low). > If not, then you know where to start looking. > > -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 18 14:04:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030218131703.00a23330@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > HI FRED, > I REALLY MEANT IT. Sorry. There has been so much sarcasm lately that it all seemed to be. > YOU WERE AN AL GORE VOTER? There is no cause for flaming. Is your shift key stuck? Or is it a Eudora problem? From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Feb 18 14:10:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: Slide rule article in today's Wall Street Journal In-Reply-To: References: <20030218063828.68329.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030218145543.033507b0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > > Hi listmates, some might be interested in this: > > - Evan K. > > Confused? So were many other people, which is why the... ... world (except for us, it seems) now relies on "Dummies" books. :-/ > From that day on, I've wanted an electronics slide rule. One where the >prefered resistor values are marked on the scales, in the same way that pi, >2*pi, e, etc are normally marked. That would be neat... Where do I buy one??? ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From kth at srv.net Tue Feb 18 14:17:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: Transfer of Files From RSX-11 (fwd) References: Message-ID: <3E5299D3.7090102@srv.net> John Lawson wrote: > I wrote this gentleman off-list (as the S/N ratio is rather out of hand >just now) and asked some basic questions... mainly trying to find if he >had just a disk, or the who thing. Follows is my reply to his response; >if anyone can jump in with more or better info for him, please respond >directly and cc: the list. > > The meta question is: what's he gonna do with the system once the data >is mined?? > > Cheers > >John > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:47:25 -0500 (EST) >From: John Lawson >To: nk badoni >Subject: Re: Transfer of Files From RSX-11 > > > >On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, nk badoni wrote: > > > >>Hello John >> >> >> > > > > >>Thank you very much for your kind reply. >> >>Yes it is a complete system. >> >> > > Ah... this makes the process *much* easier! A bit of info now would >be: what is the model of your DEC system? (ie PDP 11/23, VAX 11/750, >PRO350... etc) > > > >>I have checked Kermit but I could not find this S/W >>there. Might be my process was wrong. >> >> > > > Hmmm... a lot of RSX systems had Kermit as part of the Distribution >Kit.. you can try: > > MCR> DIR kerm*.*,* > > but if your disk is big and you CPU slow, this can take upto an hour to >complete. > > > OR, you can use a Terminal Emulating program on your Wintel machine (I >use VanDyke's CRT on my IBM Thinkpad running Win2K). Then, find the >file(s) you want, and use the RSK 'type' command to list them to the port >you are attached (logically and physically) to. Use your terminal >program's "logging" or "screen capture" function, and... there you are! >The files are safe on your PC. (This assumes you have a multi-port set of >serial terminal connectors attached to the computer. This procedure can >also be done using the PC terminal emulator attached to the DEC system >console port. The object is to list the files as an ASCII stream and >capture that listing on the PC's HD. > > I've always had problems with transfering files this way. You can lose lines, and not notice till it's way too late. Usually it was obvious (program wouldn't compile), but I wouldn't trust it very well. > > This will work with any storage media on your DEC computer, HDs or >Floppies, by the way. > > Please write to the classiccmp list during this process, and we will all >try to help out as much as possible. > > I will also forward this correspondence to the List. > > There are ways of getting kermit onto a machine without it. It was a common problem, and was usually documented with the distribution for each varient. Start at http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ and you should be able to find everything you need. They should have a "current" version of kermit for that machine. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Feb 18 14:39:01 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: WANTED: IBM PS/2 Model 65 SX or Model 80 386 Message-ID: <180.167a7f07.2b83f385@aol.com> In a message dated 2/18/2003 2:53:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, jwillis@arielusa.com writes: << IBM PS/2 Model 65 SX or IBM PS/2 Model 80 386 these are the full-tower PS/2 systems >> so were are you located? From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Feb 18 14:41:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11------II References: <20030218172723.99600.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E5299E6.6030102@Vishay.com> Kishore, that's excellent: > Yes it is a complete system. So you'll need Kermit for RSX on the PDP-11, and Kermit on WinNT. For the former, try starting at http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html - Kermit is free, so you only need to follow the instructions provided on the pages. As far as I remember, these instructions also contain a method to download some initial program - they do not assume you have KERMIT-11 before you download the program. You may also want to try searching (use Google) for "kermit pdp-11" (don't type the quotes there) - there are lots of appropriate matches. In case it is already present on your machine, it may start if you enter KERMIT (or simply KER) as a MCR command (or, if your account is set to use DCL as the command language, you may try MCR KER). However, this requires the task to be installed. You may also check for a file named KERMIT.TSK in the [1,54] directory on the system disk. If it is there, you can RUN [1,54]KERMIT to start it. Assuming you manage to find Kermit on your PDP-11 or download it, you will then need Kermit for Windows NT. I once tried to find this (for a similar purpose as yours), and had no luck: it would appear that this particular implementation is commercial software, so you'll need to *buy* it. Another, cheaper, option might be to use the DOS or Win95 incarnation of KERMIT on the PC. Start at http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/mskermit.html to find out more. I have both KERMIT-11 on my PDP-11 as well as MSKERMIT on some old 3.5" floppy, so if none of the above gets you forward, let me know, and we can work something out. But I am pretty sure the Web sources will do the job - and you'll become familiar with an important piece of computer communication history. Good luck! Andreas -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Feb 18 14:51:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: Slide rule article in today's Wall Street Journal References: <20030218063828.68329.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030218145543.033507b0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3E529BB2.7000100@jetnet.ab.ca> Roger Merchberger wrote: >> From that day on, I've wanted an electronics slide rule. One where the >> prefered resistor values are marked on the scales, in the same way >> that pi, >> 2*pi, e, etc are normally marked. > > > That would be neat... Where do I buy one??? ;-) Here is a good spot to start looking. http://www.sphere.bc.ca/ Ben. PS Robbie the robot atachment is not for sale.. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 18 14:56:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: 11/44 basic newbie help request In-Reply-To: <1045500789.2074.229.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> References: <20030216000850.24566.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <1045500789.2074.229.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <1635.4.20.168.218.1045601614.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > BTW anyone know where I can find a set of manuals for BLISS-11? I think this one covers BLISS-11 and -32, in addition to BLISS-10, but I can't download it at the moment to check: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp10/TOPS10_softwareNotebooks/vol07/AA_H275C-TK_bliss.pdf From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 18 15:06:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: Victor Computer anyone? In-Reply-To: <000301c2d718$492f0380$6c372acf@5w0gv01> from "Bob Gaddis" at Feb 18, 3 01:37:59 am Message-ID: > We had several Victor 9000's. They ran CP/M and a proprietary MS-DOS. They > had built-in codec. They actually predated the IBM PC back in 1980. They Strange machines, particularly the disk controller, which uses GCR encoding, and not suprisingly, is similar to the one in a Commodore 8050. They also have a number of interesting undocumented features. The 'Centronics' port actually uses GPIB driver chips, and could be turned into a full GPIB port with the right cable and software. There's also a user port inside on a 50 pin header, with an almost completely unused 6522 VIA to drive it. And of course the sound input connector inside. > were the best available computers at the time, when the TRS-80 was Dubious claim. In 1980, there were graphics workstations (PERQ 1a, certainly), VAXen, supercomputers, etc... -tony From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 18 15:09:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: L5-30 Receptacle or Adapter in US In-Reply-To: <3E519F16.229608B3@sasquatch.com> References: <20030217180001.7236.58293.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <3E519F16.229608B3@sasquatch.com> Message-ID: <2857.4.20.168.218.1045602443.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> pzachary wrote: > it is really simple to replace the l5-30 with a standard 5-15 or 5-20 > for home use anf just keep the plug around "in case" > if you really must have a dongle, you should be able to get one from > MSC.com Are you sure? They have all sorts of cool X-ray and crystalography products, but I don't seen any mains wiring products. From kth at srv.net Tue Feb 18 15:12:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11------II References: <20030218172723.99600.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <3E5299E6.6030102@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E52A69A.6080202@srv.net> Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Kishore, > > that's excellent: > >> Yes it is a complete system. > > > So you'll need Kermit for RSX on the PDP-11, and Kermit on WinNT. > > For the former, try starting at > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html - Kermit is free, so you > only need to follow the instructions provided on the pages. As far as > I remember, these instructions also contain a method to download some > initial program - they do not assume you have KERMIT-11 before you > download the program. > > You may also want to try searching (use Google) for "kermit pdp-11" > (don't type the quotes there) - there are lots of appropriate matches. > > In case it is already present on your machine, it may start if you > enter KERMIT (or simply KER) as a MCR command (or, if your account is > set to use DCL as the command language, you may try MCR KER). However, > this requires the task to be installed. You may also check for a file > named KERMIT.TSK in the [1,54] directory on the system disk. If it is > there, you can RUN [1,54]KERMIT to start it. > > Assuming you manage to find Kermit on your PDP-11 or download it, you > will then need Kermit for Windows NT. Kermit95 is commercial (about $65), which they use to func development of all the versions of kermit. Well worth the price if you use it more than once. It also has one of the best VT100 emulations that I have seen. There is a sort of implementation of kermit send/reveive in hyper-terminal, but it is a slow, featureless varient. It may or may not work for you. If you have a Unix or Linux box, you can use ckermit on it. Ckermit uses the same code base as kermit95, but lacks the GUI. > > I once tried to find this (for a similar purpose as yours), and had no > luck: it would appear that this particular implementation is > commercial software, so you'll need to *buy* it. > > Another, cheaper, option might be to use the DOS or Win95 incarnation > of KERMIT on the PC. Start at > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/mskermit.html to find out more. I'm not sure if the MSDOS version of kermit (which is free) will work under NT, but it might be worth a try. The win95 version is the commercial version (which costs money). > > I have both KERMIT-11 on my PDP-11 as well as MSKERMIT on some old > 3.5" floppy, so if none of the above gets you forward, let me know, > and we can work something out. But I am pretty sure the Web sources > will do the job - and you'll become familiar with an important piece > of computer communication history. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Feb 18 15:29:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Fwd: Paging Andreas Freiherr (V-Tel) References: <200302130548.h1D5mh600110@bosphorus.dimebank.com> <1371447601.20030218062346@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E52A510.6080209@Vishay.com> Jeffrey, thanks for passing the message. I'll get in touch with him. Andreas Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Andreas, someone wants to talk to you about V-Tel. If you wish to respond, > reply to the original author. > > ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- > From: Chris Kantarjiev > Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 11:48:44 PM > Subject: Rejected post > > I'm trying to reach Andreas Freiherr. The list archives don't give *his* > email address, just the list email address. > > Can you help me reach him? > ---------- End forwarded message ---------- > -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From jwillis at arielusa.com Tue Feb 18 15:38:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: WANTED: IBM PS/2 Model 65 SX or Model 80 386 Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB78B@deathstar.arielnet.com> southern New Mexico, USA -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com Sent: Tue 2/18/2003 1:37 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: WANTED: IBM PS/2 Model 65 SX or Model 80 386 In a message dated 2/18/2003 2:53:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, jwillis@arielusa.com writes: << IBM PS/2 Model 65 SX or IBM PS/2 Model 80 386 these are the full-tower PS/2 systems >> so were are you located? [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Feb 18 15:39:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Cheap to a good home... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Trying to clear out some more space, and I figure some people might want > some of this stuff. > > * Macintosh Plus 1Mb. It starts up to a flashing disk "?" icon... I don't > have any floppies laying around to try booting it off of. No > keyboard/mouse. $10 > > * IBM RS/6000 Model 370 - 32MB or 64MB of ram, depending on what I can > scrounge together. Also has Gt3 or Gt4 (option 1-5) audio, network riser > card, floppy drive, 1G or so hard drive, AIX 3.1.5 (I think) installed. > $20 Well, they've been taken, the RS/6000 a few times over. Guess I should have sent this a little earlier. If you're watching, I might have some more RS/6000 stuff posted to the list in another month or two. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From dmabry at mich.com Tue Feb 18 16:32:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS References: <009401c2d77a$24078610$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <3E52B3C2.4000107@mich.com> Send me your snail-mail address and I'll make a copy of what I have for Kermit for CP/M. You'll probably just have to modify the part that does the UART I/O. Erik S. Klein wrote: > The disks in question are IBM format SS/SD and I've got an Altos system > with dual drives that I can read them with. I've got my PC hooked up as > the terminal at the moment and all I really need is a transfer program > that I can run on the Altos to move the files through the serial cable. > > I found some old MODEM7 and XMODEM (I think) software on some of the > disks but I'm not sure if those will work (yet). > > If I could get a copy of Kermit on 8" I'm pretty sure it would make this > easier. > > Once the disk contents are available on the PC side I'll probably make > them available on my website even though I'm fairly certain that a ton > of the stuff is duplicated at other sites. > > I've got a bunch of other software on DS/DD disks that are incompatible > with any of my current gear. I'm waiting to get the machine capable of > reading those. . . > > Erik S. Klein > www.vintage-computer.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Dave Mabry > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 9:49 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS > > I can offer this if it helps. I have a CP/M system that reads standard > IBM-formatted single-sided single-density 8" diskettes (seems kinda > funny to call those monsterous things disk"ettes", doesn't it?). I can > transfer files, using Kermit, to a PC and make CDs. > > Just a thought. I live in the Detroit area. > > Erik S. Klein wrote: > >>Coincidentally I just spent much of the past week going through dozens >>of old CPMUG disks. I saw Ward's name throughout much of the >>collection. >> >>Now that I've cataloged the contents of these disks I need to figure > > out > >>how best to get the files over to a more transportable format then 8" >>media. >> >>Erik S. Klein >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >>On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert >>Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:42 AM >>To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' >>Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS >> >>The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago > > Tribune. > >>Not >>the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important >>event in >>computer history. >> > > http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D0 > >>3021 >>60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology >> >> >>Bob >> >>. >> > > > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From livewire at netadel.com Tue Feb 18 16:41:01 2003 From: livewire at netadel.com (livewire@netadel.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Atari 8Bit Fileserver Message-ID: <1045607874.3e52b5c20f25a@www.netadel.com> For any of the atari 8bit folks, I found this on a website this morning: http://www.horus.com/~hias/atari/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 18 16:46:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: <3E51CDB8.7080308@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Your mixing thing up here. Win95 OSr1 was fat16 only. Win95 OSr2.x was > fat16 or fat32. Win98 is fat16 or fat32. I'm not sure what's different > in the SE edition of Win98, but it certainly isn't its fat32 capabilities. It's certainly not hard to get mixed up. MICROS~1 certainly didn't put much effort into making it easy to keep track of the differences. (How many people outside of these lists will know the order of 98, ME, NT4, 2000, XP?) The first version of 95 wasn't called anything other than "Windows 95". The SECOND version of 95 was called "OSR1"! It was only differentiable, when looking at the disc, by noticing that it bragged about having USB support, and that it said to not make illegal copies (prior to that, MICROS~1 had considered a CD-ROM to be enough of a barrier by itself as to not need such an admonition. From pzachary at sasquatch.com Tue Feb 18 17:04:01 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pzachary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Wanted: L5-30 Receptacle or Adapter in US References: <20030217180001.7236.58293.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <3E519F16.229608B3@sasquatch.com> <2857.4.20.168.218.1045602443.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E52BBB2.C808A374@sasquatch.com> Eric Smith wrote: > > pzachary wrote: > > it is really simple to replace the l5-30 with a standard 5-15 or 5-20 > > for home use anf just keep the plug around "in case" > > if you really must have a dongle, you should be able to get one from > > MSC.com > > Are you sure? They have all sorts of cool X-ray and crystalography > products, but I don't seen any mains wiring products. OOPS, mscdirect.com Pavl_ From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 18 17:08:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ? The problem is to transfer Ward Christensen's stuff through a serial port. WHY is the assumed method being how to create an implementation of KERMIT?? WHY isn't it to create an implementation of a Christensen protocol? The process for EITHER is to take the existing program (Kermit, or XMODEM), and configure it for the port and UART type. From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Tue Feb 18 17:24:01 2003 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11 References: <20030217163858.68247.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c2d7a4$70425940$16e6f1c3@comouter4> Hello Kishore, Do you have a functioning PDP-11 RSX11-M machine or just a disk. What kind of disk is it? Wim ----- Original Message ----- From: nk badoni To: Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11 > Hello > > > I am Kishore. > > Could you please tell me that how can I tranfer the > files from Winchester Disk having RSX-11/PDP format > into a PC having Win NT operating system. > > Kishore From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 18 17:32:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > > They are more to do with locking down the country so no more terrorist On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > If we lock down our country and hold everyone suspect, did not The > Terrorists win? Are you saying that Bush works for Bin Laden? From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Feb 18 17:36:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> References: <200302180700.h1I70MnZ014872@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> Message-ID: <20030218235928.GE10281@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Lawrence Walker, from writings of Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 03:09:26AM -0600: > The devil made me do it. Careful, the Shrub administration will have you stoned to death for for being posessed. On a more serious note, did anyone realize that some people, who are close friends of high-ranking Bush adminstration officials, belong to a group that wants to make it U.S. law for people to be stoned to death for violating Biblical "law?" -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 18 17:43:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at Feb 18, 2003 03:28:52 PM Message-ID: <200302182339.h1INdW1N021266@narnia.int.dittman.net> > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > They are more to do with locking down the country so no more terrorist > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > If we lock down our country and hold everyone suspect, did not The > > Terrorists win? > > Are you saying that Bush works for Bin Laden? I didn't write that. I wrote the comment to which Sellam was responding. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 19:05:01 2003 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (Shannon Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Looking board DEC boards Message-ID: <007501c2d7b3$12419180$c1ddf7a5@shannon> I am looking for the following, working or not: KXT11 DRV11-J KE11-B MCV11 MRV11-D VSV21 H780 RWZ01 RC25 RD53 RD54 KDJ11-A, FPJ11 A6006 A1008 and others. We have a lot of equipment to trade. Please let us know what you have. Thank you, Shannon Hoskins pds3@ix.netcom.com From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Feb 18 19:50:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Slide Rules Message-ID: <1045619181.13378.3.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> In honor of the recent slide rule discussion, I decided to throw a few picks of mine up on the web for all to see. This is just a quick and dirty page. Maybe I'll improve it at some later date. The URL is: http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu/sliderulez.html -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Feb 18 19:56:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030218131703.00a23330@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030218204322.00a04b90@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Fred, > Is your shift key stuck? Or is it a Eudora problem? No, I turned the caps on on purpose. > Sorry. > There has been so much sarcasm lately that it all seemed to be. I may have misinterpreted your response. If your response was not actually intentionally antagonistic, then I apologize. In the past, you and I have mixed about as well as fire and matches. If you have a different opinion on the performance of our current administration, so be it. > There is no cause for flaming. Let it be so. Best Regards At 12:01 PM 2/18/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > > HI FRED, > > I REALLY MEANT IT. > >Sorry. >There has been so much sarcasm lately that it all seemed to be. > > > YOU WERE AN AL GORE VOTER? > >There is no cause for flaming. > > >Is your shift key stuck? Or is it a Eudora problem? From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Feb 18 19:58:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Fw: FREE VAXstation 4000-60 References: <20030218030208.19804.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <019401c2d7ba$14a91770$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 10:02 PM Subject: Re: Fw: FREE VAXstation 4000-60 > > > I have to be out of my office by EOM and have nowhere to put this. > > > > > > Hardware........: VAXstation 4000-60 > . > . > . > > > Have VMS, Will Travel > > > Wire paladin, San Francisco > > I just saw the message (that and I'm 1800 miles from SF)... did anyone > get this? Dunno. I saw it on spamnet, and forwarded it as fast as I could-- an m60 is pretty yummy. Too bad I'm less than a mile closer than you are. Probably someone snatched it up as soon as it hit the first spool disk, but I got my VAX 6000 via usenet, so I think it's sometimes possible to get stuff from a group. Or do you think a VAX 6000 is somehow less desirable than a VAXstation 4000? ^_^ > > -ethan Bob From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 18 20:10:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Help with my PDP 11/73 In-Reply-To: <20030218193641.LSBJ10203.pop017.verizon.net@[192\.168\.129\.99]> References: <20030218193641.LSBJ10203.pop017.verizon.net@[192.168.129.99]> Message-ID: <1327475348.20030218200627@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, chu@verizon.net wrote: > Big success and then a new problem. I took out the top three levels of my > cards and reseated them. There's a lot of corrosion on the contacts so it > inserts only with difficulty. Maybe you should clean the contacts! -- Jeffrey Sharp From dmabry at mich.com Tue Feb 18 20:12:01 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS References: Message-ID: <3E52E731.3020403@mich.com> Certainly, Xmodem would be faster than the most generic Kermit since it uses an 8-bit data path as opposed to the 7-bit path of Kermit. I usually think of Kermit first when transferring files because there are so many different implementations. Just about any operating system has one or more versions of Kermit. Even the HP calculators have Kermit (the 48 and 49 I think). Also, unless you have the Ymodem variant or later, I believe you have to type in file names to the receiving end. Kermit usually can transfer the file name as part of the transfer. I have several programs that can use Xmodem, Xmodem-CRC, Ymodem, Ymodem-1K on Intel MDS systems. Probably can also find some of those for the PeeCee. However, I just always think of Kermit first because I don't even have to think of what operating system or what kind of computer. Kermit will be available. That being said, I DO agree with you that it would seem much more "appropriate" to be using one of Ward's protocols to transfer his files. Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > ? > > The problem is to transfer Ward Christensen's stuff through a serial port. > > WHY is the assumed method being how to create an implementation of > KERMIT?? > > > WHY isn't it to create an implementation of a Christensen protocol? > > > The process for EITHER is to take the existing program (Kermit, or > XMODEM), and configure it for the port and UART type. > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Feb 18 20:34:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030218235928.GE10281@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <200302180700.h1I70MnZ014872@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Robert, > On a more serious note, did anyone realize that > some people, who are close friends of high-ranking Bush adminstration > officials, belong to a group that wants to make it U.S. law for people > be stoned to death for violating Biblical "law?" Come on man, this can't be true, can it? Where did you find this information? And is it factual? You are a unique individual. It seems you have some "conspierist" theories of the US Government. We're actually fairly close neighbors. Someday I'd like to meet you. Not to argue your point of view, but just to try to understand it. Best Regards At 06:59 PM 2/18/03 -0500, you wrote: >Quothe Lawrence Walker, from writings of Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 03:09:26AM >-0600: > > The devil made me do it. > >Careful, the Shrub administration will have you stoned to death for >for being posessed. On a more serious note, did anyone realize that >some people, who are close friends of high-ranking Bush adminstration >officials, belong to a group that wants to make it U.S. law for people >to be stoned to death for violating Biblical "law?" > >-- >Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: >All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & >rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify >such >http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 18 21:13:00 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: <3E51BD8E.4030207@internet1.net> References: Message-ID: <20030219030948.GXSB29562.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Chad Fernandez > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question > Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:58:54 -0500 > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Win95 WILL run on a 12MHz 386SX. But it needs more than 4M RAM if you > > want to leave "safe mode". Some others have been successful with only 4M, > > but our experience was that it would only do safe mode until we added more > > RAM. > > I see. I never tried it on my sisters 386sx-25, since I thought the DX > was a requirement. > > I did try Win 3.1 on my old 286-12, with about 1-1.5 megs of memory. It > was so slow, it took it a few minutes to finish crashing :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA I had run 95 (original) on 386dx 25 16MB w/ 256K cache and decent HD. Still acts like cold honey spreading slowly. Thinks through things sluggardly. Cheers, Wizard From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Feb 18 21:26:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question References: <20030219030948.GXSB29562.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <01eb01c2d7c5$d0296c60$0400fea9@game> There is a big difference between getting an OS to load and doing anything usefull on the system you managed to barely load it on. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 5:08 PM Subject: Re: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question > > From: Chad Fernandez > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question > > Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:58:54 -0500 > > > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Win95 WILL run on a 12MHz 386SX. But it needs more than 4M RAM if you > > > want to leave "safe mode". Some others have been successful with only 4M, > > > but our experience was that it would only do safe mode until we added more > > > RAM. > > > > I see. I never tried it on my sisters 386sx-25, since I thought the DX > > was a requirement. > > > > I did try Win 3.1 on my old 286-12, with about 1-1.5 megs of memory. It > > was so slow, it took it a few minutes to finish crashing :-) > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA > > I had run 95 (original) on 386dx 25 16MB w/ 256K cache and decent HD. > Still acts like cold honey spreading slowly. Thinks through things > sluggardly. > > Cheers, > > Wizard From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 18 21:47:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: <01eb01c2d7c5$d0296c60$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, TeoZ wrote: > There is a big difference between getting an OS to load and doing anything > usefull on the system you managed to barely load it on. Therefore, Windoze should NEVER be run on anything less than a 12GHz Pentium-9 with 4G RAM. From schickel at psln.com Tue Feb 18 21:49:00 2003 From: schickel at psln.com (Frank Schickel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question References: Message-ID: <3E52FD46.E524C228@psln.com> [ Comments in-line ] "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > You can INSTALL to a FAT16 partition (95, 98), and then let Windoze > "convert" it to FAT32. Normally successfully, and hardly ever does a > total destruction of the drive/file contents. But it is ONE WAY. > MICROS~1 provides NO way to convert it back. Don't know if you've ever tried Partition Magic from PowerQuest, but I would consider it an essential utility when working with HDs. It will repartition on-the-fly and convert partitions *both* ways FAT16<-->FAT32 and FAT32<-->NTFS, although you lose the extended attributes when converting to FAT from NTFS. I used it to repartition a PC at work that was installed as 3 2GB FAT16 partitions on a 6GB HD. With all the dross that most programs install, the first partition ran out of room real fast. Later, Frank From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Feb 18 21:57:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <3E52E731.3020403@mich.com> Message-ID: <001201c2d7ca$856ddad0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> The batch capabilities are exactly why I am looking for an alternative to Xmodem or Modem7. (Well, that and I have no idea if the versions I have work at all as I haven't run them through the assembler yet). I suppose I could find source to some of the newer Xmodem variants to port to the Z80 (I've got more languages on this Altos then I know what to do with!) but I'd prefer to do something quick. I'm more interested in making the files accessible then adding a project to my already overburdened list! :) Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dave Mabry Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:09 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS Certainly, Xmodem would be faster than the most generic Kermit since it uses an 8-bit data path as opposed to the 7-bit path of Kermit. I usually think of Kermit first when transferring files because there are so many different implementations. Just about any operating system has one or more versions of Kermit. Even the HP calculators have Kermit (the 48 and 49 I think). Also, unless you have the Ymodem variant or later, I believe you have to type in file names to the receiving end. Kermit usually can transfer the file name as part of the transfer. I have several programs that can use Xmodem, Xmodem-CRC, Ymodem, Ymodem-1K on Intel MDS systems. Probably can also find some of those for the PeeCee. However, I just always think of Kermit first because I don't even have to think of what operating system or what kind of computer. Kermit will be available. That being said, I DO agree with you that it would seem much more "appropriate" to be using one of Ward's protocols to transfer his files. Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > ? > > The problem is to transfer Ward Christensen's stuff through a serial port. > > WHY is the assumed method being how to create an implementation of > KERMIT?? > > > WHY isn't it to create an implementation of a Christensen protocol? > > > The process for EITHER is to take the existing program (Kermit, or > XMODEM), and configure it for the port and UART type. > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Feb 18 22:19:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Recent Find: Votrax PSS & VaxClusters Message-ID: I've managed to come across a 'Votrax Personal Speech System'. I've found some information from google, but haven't found out some important things like what the pinout is on the power connector (it's a DIN-5). While I can just trace the traces back to chips on the circuit board, it's proven hard to disassemble, so I'd rather not if I don't have to. Does anyone have enough information about this thing to tell me how it wants to be powered? Oh, and another thing. I've recently picked up a few 2-4VUPS VAXstations that I'm working on trying to turn into a VMS cluster. I'm hoping to create a public-access system - I remember seeing an article about another one on SlashDot a few months ago. Because of the terms of the hobbyist license, I'll need to make it a non-commercial-use-only cluster, but I'd like to make it available to list members or other people to mess around with. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 18 22:27:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: <3E52FD46.E524C228@psln.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Frank Schickel wrote: > Don't know if you've ever tried Partition Magic from PowerQuest, > but I would consider it an essential utility when working with > HDs. It will repartition on-the-fly and convert partitions > *both* ways FAT16<-->FAT32 and FAT32<-->NTFS, although you > lose the extended attributes when converting to FAT from > NTFS. I bought it specificaly to change an <2G NTFS partition from NTFS to FAT16, in order to convert an NT4 machine into NT4/Win98 dual bootable. It said that it was doing it, but never did. I tried rather a lot of variations, such as resizing first, etc. but it never worked. OTOH, I have used it quite happily for resizing partitions on several machines. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 18 23:03:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: This is way off-topic...don't read it (was Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #461 - 43 msgs) In-Reply-To: <20030218165645.86550.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > Colin Powell showed real evidence that some people who happen to be from > the Middle East (Not sure if Hussein and his people are Arabs) are doing > some bad stuff. Ha. Ha ha. Ha. > The discussion is about bad people who happen to be Arab. Not that all > Arabs are bad people. Are you certain? > And it so happens, that a lot of terrorists in the world today are from > the Middle East. Used to be, terrorists were Northern Irish... "Terrorist" is a very subjective title. Anyone who would disagree is probably a terrorist. > The fact that some of the worst incidents have been perpetrated by > people from the Middle East does not make Americans, British or others > wrong for noticing it. If anything, it means that it calls for others in > the Middle East to speak up and use the social pressures or peers to put > a stop to their fellow citizens (all these bad people must be SOMEONE'S > brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, cousins, neighbors...) doing all > this bad stuff. Well, since I'm American, I would rather focus on calling on my fellow Americans to realize the arrogance of our ways and the death and pillage we have wreaked upon other nations around the world. I feel it is my patriotic duty to point out the serious flaws that this country seems to want to ignore. > The displeasure that is aimed towards Middle Eastern people from people > in the West is because this isn't happening. People are being killed > daily, and instead of having Millions of people stand up and protest > that.... We have millions of people stand up and protest somebody trying > to put a stop to it. I do stand up and protest the fact that dozens of Palestinians (mostly civilians) are being killed every month. Does that count? Or maybe because they're Arabs it doesn't? > Yes, I think that's stupid. And I think the people who condemn the > police instead of the criminals, are stupid... Criminal can also be a subjective term. Anyone who doesn't believe so is guilty of something. > > We all know a good A-rab is a dead A-rab. Fuck > > them. Let's go in there and take their precious > > oil from them so they can never use the profits > > to finance terrorism anymore. That'll end all > > terrorism forever and ever and we can live happily > > ever after guzzling all the free oil we want. > > Not all American's or Westerners believe this. Unfortunately, those who have the President's ear seem to think so. > While I would like that Terrorists get no money at all, from any source. > And I'm pretty sure lots of Saudi money does indeed go to support > terrorism. Drug money from Poppy sales also goes there, and other money > goes there also. Yes, American tax dollars go to support terrorism. For instance, all those billions of dollars we give to Israel every year. > I would like to see the oil money stay in the Middle East, but used to > feed and care for the people there. To provide water, sanitation, > schooling, and good lives for the people in Middle Eastern countries. > Rather than being spent on Terrorism, Weapons of Mass Destruction or > persecution of Non Muslim peoples. And I would like to see the $397 billion dollars that we just gave to the Pentagon to blow up Arabs be re-directed to domestic concerns such as solving the homeless problem (for one) and maybe fixing the economy. > That is VERY frustrating for Americans. I contribute money to charities > all the time, and just get sick when I think of all the Billions of > Dollars spent on weapons and death that instead should have been spent > on life and making the lives of people better. You mean like a $397 billion Pentagon budget? > People who are Anti-American, and Anti-Bush just don't know the truth > about Americans or George Bush. They buy all sorts of stories that > aren't true. Make up motivations that aren't real. Maybe they aren't "Anti-American" at all. Maybe they are just "Anti-Buush" because they see through the facade. > We liberated Kuwait, but if you notice did not take the country over. We didn't need to. We struck deals to get steady flows of oil from them for cheap in perpetuity for saving their asses. > We returned it to the rightful rulers. We turned it back over to a totalitarian monarchy. > We've done the same throughout history. Yes, Central America thanks us for all the peace and democracy we brought them. > History shows that Americans aren't interested in ruling the world, only > liberating other people to be free and happy. That's a good one. > So, let's get back to discussing Classic Computers... We'd better, since some of us seem too naive to seriously discuss politics. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 18 23:04:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAA0@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Sellam writes: > > > As I mentioned to you privately, I am not responsible for > > flame wars being started over comments I make. > Try avoiding off-topic reactionist banter to begin with. You > KNOW people are going to bite the bait and start a flame war. It's not bait. It's a comment. It may be a hook but there's no line attached. In other words, I'm not looking for a debate. I just have an observation to make. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From schickel at psln.com Tue Feb 18 23:05:01 2003 From: schickel at psln.com (Frank Schickel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question References: Message-ID: <3E530F75.88613A61@psln.com> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > I bought it specificaly to change an <2G NTFS partition from NTFS to > FAT16, in order to convert an NT4 machine into NT4/Win98 dual bootable. > It said that it was doing it, but never did. I tried rather a lot of > variations, such as resizing first, etc. but it never worked. > > OTOH, I have used it quite happily for resizing partitions on several > machines. That's interesing....I wonder what caused that. I've only resized partitions so I didn't use it that much. I had the opposite happen when I was converting my drive: I tried the W98 "Drive Converter", but all it did was say it had to boot to DOS to convert to FAT32, and then hang after rebooting. Later, Frank From allain at panix.com Tue Feb 18 23:13:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) References: Message-ID: <00d901c2d7d5$0eae3920$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> this waste of space is not appreciated. From fernande at internet1.net Tue Feb 18 23:57:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E531B03.6020404@internet1.net> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > The first version of 95 wasn't called anything other than "Windows 95". > The SECOND version of 95 was called "OSR1"! I thought OSr1 was the first version. I've only ever heard of OSr1, 2, and 2.5. I didn't think USB support was included until 2.5 Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 19 01:22:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Victor Computer anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <000301c2d718$492f0380$6c372acf@5w0gv01> from "Bob Gaddis" at Feb 18, 3 01:37:59 am Message-ID: <3E533DE6.25866.2D74D5B9@localhost> > > We had several Victor 9000's. They ran CP/M and a proprietary MS-DOS. They > > had built-in codec. They actually predated the IBM PC back in 1980. They > Strange machines, particularly the disk controller, which uses GCR > encoding, and not suprisingly, is similar to the one in a Commodore 8050. > They also have a number of interesting undocumented features. The > 'Centronics' port actually uses GPIB driver chips, and could be turned > into a full GPIB port with the right cable and software. There's also a > user port inside on a 50 pin header, with an almost completely unused > 6522 VIA to drive it. And of course the sound input connector inside. I'd say, they where machines build without any management involved - at least without so called controllers. > > were the best available computers at the time, when the TRS-80 was > Dubious claim. In 1980, there were graphics workstations (PERQ 1a, > certainly), VAXen, supercomputers, etc... Aren't you talking a different class now? For 1980, the Victor was realy top notch at an afordable price. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From ericj at speakeasy.org Wed Feb 19 02:00:01 2003 From: ericj at speakeasy.org (Eric Josephson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: Hm, I don't recall seeing anything about stonings, but some of these strategy papers from the Free Congress Foundation make for an interesting read. http://www.freecongress.org/centers/cc/new_tradiitionalist.asp The most-cited link between these people and the White House being this piece: http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,107219,00.html By the way, does anyone know where I can get a keyboard for a Victor 9000? ;-) Regards, -- Eric Josephson On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:30:56 -0500 > From: Mail List > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) > > Robert, > > > On a more serious note, did anyone realize that > > some people, who are close friends of high-ranking Bush adminstration > > officials, belong to a group that wants to make it U.S. law for people > > be stoned to death for violating Biblical "law?" > > Come on man, this can't be true, can it? Where did you find this information? > And is it factual? > > You are a unique individual. It seems you have some "conspierist" > theories > of the US Government. > > We're actually fairly close neighbors. Someday I'd like to meet you. Not to > argue > your point of view, but just to try to understand it. > > Best Regards > > > > > > At 06:59 PM 2/18/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Quothe Lawrence Walker, from writings of Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 03:09:26AM > >-0600: > > > The devil made me do it. > > > >Careful, the Shrub administration will have you stoned to death for > >for being posessed. On a more serious note, did anyone realize that > >some people, who are close friends of high-ranking Bush adminstration > >officials, belong to a group that wants to make it U.S. law for people > >to be stoned to death for violating Biblical "law?" > > > >-- > >Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > >All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > >rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify > >such > >http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jdnews at ultrasw.com Wed Feb 19 02:09:00 2003 From: jdnews at ultrasw.com (jdavid) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: HP-IB Mass Storage Emulation (Help) Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030219002736.00b06ad0@mail.ultrasw.com> Tony Duell beat me to this when he wrote: "There have been many devices which implemented the IEEE-488 bus (GPIB, HPIB) using a standard parallel interface chip like the 6821 or 6522 together with buffers." My Osborne 1 (Z80, 64K, CP/M, 5 1/4 floppies, tan case, '82) labeled their parallel port "IEEE-488" (aka HP-IB) and wrote low level routines for the eight basic HP-IB commands into the bios. They used a 6821 PIA to drive the port, an interesting mixing of chip families. My computer whiz high school son and I built some software around their stuff and I used the Osborne (personal) at work (DOD R&D) for several years to talk to, among other stuff, Nicolet digital scopes. I don't remember much about the details and don't know whether I can find anything useful, or readable, on the software, but the bios routines should be available in the Osborne tech literature. I still have the Oborne, but haven't tried to run it for several years, will have to see if it still lights. My next laptop was a Toshiba T1200 (80C86, 1MB, 3.5 floppies only, MSDOS, '89) which had a bidirectional parallel port implemented in a custom gate array with eight additional control signals. I remember that we tried to do a klunge to run '488 on that but can't for the life of me remember whether we were ever successful. I'll have to dig around some more in the old stuff and see what I can find. Good luck on the project Vassilis. Dave Dykstra, Tucson Vassilis Prevelakis wrote: >I have been working for some time on a pet project to make a mass >storage emulator for HP-IB systems. and: >So I looked hard at the HP-IB bus itself (using the schematics from the >Series 80 adaptor) and it looks like a simple parallel bus. So why use >a custom card, if the PC parallel port can be adapted to drive an HP-IB >bus. etc From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Feb 19 02:33:00 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAFA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> As I am the "scanner" of all the docs at mainecoon, I have the original CD's (and in the mean time some 3 more...) I could investigate the conversion to PDF, but it is quicker if Jay tells me what he did. I might (if sufficient interest from CC) create some webpages that helps to get to the PDF-part that contains the info you need. Saves on downloading other parts that are less interesting. Better filesnames (no spaces, e.g.) would also make life easier. Ed will have a real fast Internet connection soon, and he has many Gb's room. We meet several times a year, and Ed already suggested to host all the data. So ... - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@kwcorp.com] > Sent: maandag 17 februari 2003 21:06 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) > > > I noticed the docs on maincoon for the RL02 were all in tiff > format. I got > them all converted to pdf in case someone needs them in that > format and > doesn't have the tiff to pdf conversion utilities. If more > than a few people > ask I'll put them up on classiccmp.org. > > Jay West From vance at neurotica.com Wed Feb 19 02:34:04 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030218131703.00a23330@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: Geez. No need to shout. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > HI FRED, > > I REALLY MEANT IT. I'M GLAD THE AIRLINES ARE FLYING > AGAIN. I'M GLAD IT FEELS SAFE TO OPEN THE MAIL AGAIN. > I'M GLAD TO SEE SOMETHING IS BEING DONE TO TRY AND > PREVENT ANOTHER 9/11 INCIDENT. I ACTUALLY DO RESPECT > THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. I GUESS > YOU WERE AN AL GORE VOTER? > > > > > At 09:51 AM 2/18/03 -0800, you wrote: > > > And he's a president that's doing a good job. I think he portrays > > > >There is WAY TOO MUCH sarcasm on the list lately. From sieler at allegro.com Wed Feb 19 02:34:34 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:01 2005 Subject: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB781@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <3E521857.32078.9F9F6E7@localhost> Re: > and I finally got a copy of HP-UX 11.0, but when I try > to boot off the CD (boot 52.2.0.0), it says "Bad LIF magic." I'm told > this means the media is not > bootable. I can boot from CD ... if I use the right CD (I've had similar problems when putting the wrong CD in). What's your CD say on it? Also, if you can read the first few sectors of the CD on another system, what do they look like? Byte 0 should be $80, and bytes 1..3 should be readable ASCII. -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From sieler at allegro.com Wed Feb 19 02:35:07 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E521900.9070.9FC879F@localhost> Re: > The following link is to the story in the February 16th Chicago Tribune. Not > the most detailed story, but still some recognition of an important event in > computer history. > http://www.chicagotribune.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=chi%2D03021 > 60428feb16§ion=%2Ftechnology The story places XMODEM at 1977-02-16. I was wondering...I know that network transfers preceded XMODEM (the first FTP RFC was 1971) ... but...does anyone know the first data of a binary (not ASCII) file transmission via modem? (I know of some done in 1975, from an IBM mainframe to a DG Nova.) thanks, Stan -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From sieler at allegro.com Wed Feb 19 02:35:39 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: HP-IB Mass Storage Emulation (Help) In-Reply-To: <200302171214.HAA18097@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <3E521CCF.26424.A0B6A2C@localhost> Re: > For example, take the HP 9133H which is a massive unit that can store > about 5Mb. Even the compact flash cards that are bundled with popular The 9133H is a 20 MB drive, IIRC. My notes say: 9133D 1986 14 MB w/3.5" double sided 9133H 1986 20 MB w/3.5" double sided 9133L 1988 40 MB w/3.5" double sided 9133V 1984 4 MB w/3.5" single sided (hard drive: 4.6 MB) 9133V/ 1984 4 MB w/3.5" single sided /010 (hard drive: 4.8 MB) 9133V/ 1984 4 MB (see 9133V) /004 (4 partitions of 1.5 MB) 9133XV 1984 14 MB w/3.5" single sided 270 KB (9121 compat) Quibble aside, wow...that would be great, if you could do it via the parallel port (or even via USB) -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 19 02:36:12 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 1 Level II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 18 February 2003 00:12 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: TRS80 Model 1 Level II > > You say it's an L2 machine. Does it have the ROM in 2 off 24 pin chips on > the mainboard (one is 8K, the other 4K, and there are some cut-n-jumper > mods), or is it old enough to have the extra PCB with 3 24 pin chips > (eack 4K) and the address decoder? It's the former - 2 ROMs and 2 DIP shunts. > > ROMs. I found a link to the Tech Ref for the Model 1 - > excellent book, given > > Or ROM failure itself? Yep, of course. I haven't got a ROM reader (yet) so I can't do any checksum tests on the ROMs. > > the writing style it could've been written by me, same sense of > humour - and > > Indeed. The introduction is rather amusing... (As you may have guessed, I > have this manual...) The whole thing is amusing IMO, I loved the 'real world' section where he's done a schematic to allow your TRS80 to control the power on your coffee machine :) > Be warned that much of the tech manual is written assuming you have a L1 > machine. I don't know what L2 does if it can't find any RAM, for > example... It does predictable things along the lines of no ROM; I can't remember the resulting screen though. The couple of replies I got on comp.sys.tandy also suggest ROM failure and/or address lines and/or data lines. > With the ROMs pulled, all the address lines should be toggling (as the > CPU tries to continually push 39 00 onto the stack). You can check this. Yep, I'm being dense again and struggling to find a good link to ground I can fasten my probe too; +5V can be got from the right side of C9. Just need to study the schematics a bit more. > > This I now know.....good job the tests indicate the RAM is > happy! I guessed > > when the RAM turned out to be 16 pin chips instead of the 2114's 18..... > > Yes, the M1 uses DRAMs for the main memory. Either 4K or 16K parts. The schematic also mentions 8K parts, but since that's from the tech ref it might only apply to L1 machines? I suppose I can always steal memory from the model III that's still in bits? (mail in your inbox about that) cheers! -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From survey-admin at justASKthem.com Wed Feb 19 02:36:48 2003 From: survey-admin at justASKthem.com (Survey-Admin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: DEC Monitor Message-ID: <3E52A1A3.F7C1F155@justASKthem.com> Frank - I found an old post at http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-July/000309.html You list a VR201-C PRO monitor. My neighbor (& landlord) runs a tractor repair business. He's an old farmer who doesn't like to change much, and has been using the same DEC inventory system since 1986. For 16 years, he's maintained a service contract, but now that DEC was bought by Compaq, and Compaq has merged with HP, he's facing an $800 annual bill for a service contract which has only been used to replace burnt out monitors and printers (2 of each in 16 years) The monitor includes a 15-pin connector, which I'll gues is db-15, and an RJ-11 keyboard jack. Does your monitor include these connectors? Would it work on a DEC Unix system? If so, do you still have it and how much would it be to ship it to NJ - 08825? Thanks Alan Runfeldt survey-admin@justASKthem.com From jwillis at arielusa.com Wed Feb 19 03:43:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB78E@deathstar.arielnet.com> Stan: My CDs were created from ISO images. The files were something like hpux_11_0_disk1.iso.gz and hpux_11_0_disk2.iso.gz I labeled the disks accordingly, and have tried both. Haven't gotten a chance to examine the sectors yet. Will do that now since I'm up with a horrendous case of the flu anyway. :P Thanks! --- John Willis Field Service Engineer Ariel Technologies 505.524.6860 voice 505.524.6863 fax jwillis@arielusa.com -----Original Message----- From: Stan Sieler Sent: Tue 2/18/2003 12:26 PM To: John Willis; cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: RE: HP 9000 "Nova" I-class systems Re: > and I finally got a copy of HP-UX 11.0, but when I try > to boot off the CD (boot 52.2.0.0), it says "Bad LIF magic." I'm told > this means the media is not > bootable. I can boot from CD ... if I use the right CD (I've had similar problems when putting the wrong CD in). What's your CD say on it? Also, if you can read the first few sectors of the CD on another system, what do they look like? Byte 0 should be $80, and bytes 1..3 should be readable ASCII. -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Feb 19 05:06:01 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11------II References: <20030218172723.99600.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <3E5299E6.6030102@Vishay.com> <3E52A69A.6080202@srv.net> Message-ID: <3E53643D.6080405@Vishay.com> Kevin, Kevin Handy wrote: ... > Andreas Freiherr wrote: ... >> Another, cheaper, option might be to use the DOS or Win95 incarnation >> of KERMIT on the PC. Start at >> http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/mskermit.html to find out more. > > > I'm not sure if the MSDOS version of kermit (which is free) will work > under NT, but it might be worth a try. The win95 version is the commercial > version (which costs money). OK, so if the Win95 version is also commercial, then the DOS variant remains. And I believe, if MSKERMIT will not run on the WinNT PC (which I am afraid will be true), at least DOS will hopefully run on the PC to support MSKERMIT. Then, you need a disk partition formatted as FAT (not NTFS), and you can move the files in through MSKERMIT and out (after rebooting into NT) with "Windoze Exploder". And, when done, make sure the PDP-11 goes to a good home: don't you dare to trash it! ;-) Regards, Andreas -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Feb 19 05:27:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11------II Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAA4@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> ALl, Andreas writes: > > I'm not sure if the MSDOS version of kermit (which is free) > will work under NT, but it might be worth a try. The win95 version is > the commercial version (which costs money). > > OK, so if the Win95 version is also commercial, then the DOS variant > remains. And I believe, if MSKERMIT will not run on the WinNT PC > (which I am afraid will be true), at least DOS will hopefully run on > the PC to support MSKERMIT. Then, you need a disk partition formatted > as FAT (not NTFS), and you can move the files in through MSKERMIT and > out (after rebooting into NT) with "Windoze Exploder". Hmm. I still use my (Classic ;-) MSKERMIT V3.0 on my PC's, when I need to, and this always worked fine under NT (4.0), and it works fine, too, under W2K Pro. Version info is: ------------------------------------------ MS-Kermit>vers IBM-PC MS-Kermit: 3.00 16 Jan 1990 MS-Kermit>quit ------------------------------------------ If anyone wants it, contact me offlist and I'll email it.. its small. Fred From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Feb 19 05:43:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Recent Find: Votrax PSS & VaxClusters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Oh, and another thing. I've recently picked up a few 2-4VUPS > VAXstations that I'm working on trying to turn into a VMS cluster. > I'm hoping to create a public-access system - I remember seeing an > article about another one on SlashDot a few months ago. Because of > the terms of the hobbyist license, I'll need to make it a > non-commercial-use-only cluster, but I'd like to make it available to > list members or other people to mess around with. I'm fairly certain that nearly all of the publicly accessible OpenVMS clusters are being run on hobbyist licenses. The one covered on Slashdot was the Death Row cluster: There's also a cluster of VAX 6000 systems available in Germany. I'm not sure if their systems will permanent, given the cost of running power hungry VAX 6000s, but I donated to their cause. By all means, I think it'd be interesting to have more classic systems available on the internet. -brian. From chpap at ics.forth.gr Wed Feb 19 06:27:01 2003 From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <012801c2d811$c3228be0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a RQDX1 (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to installing BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(only for RQDX3) that can be downloaded directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a version of zrqb or something similar? From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Feb 19 06:44:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: OT: OT: OT: Re: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question Message-ID: > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, TeoZ wrote: > > > > There is a big difference between getting an OS to load and doing > anything > > usefull on the system you managed to barely load it on. > > Therefore, Windoze should NEVER be run on anything less than a 12GHz > Pentium-9 with 4G RAM. > For the most part this is true. However, I did manage to get W2Kpro to run on a pair of SCSI based mini towers with P75s, 64Mb RAM, and 2.3Gb single hard drives. Had 'em running as DHCP clients with ICS through an AMD Duron 450 server, also running W2Kpro. It was a trip, but they worked... :) Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Feb 19 07:03:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Going OT Re: (no subject) Message-ID: > If we lock down our country and hold everyone suspect, did not The > Terrorists win? How little we really change... Between these mythical "terrorists," and our own present regime in D.C., we're doing to ourselves exactly what Soviet Communism had in mind for us at the height of the "cold war." Our citizenry is becoming isolated from the rest of the world, and is also being fairly neutralized in the scheme of both national and international events... Cheers... Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From neuro at well.com Wed Feb 19 07:50:01 2003 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Please remove my address from your mailing list References: Message-ID: <084301c2d81d$5a3948b0$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net> Thomas Dzubin wrote: > [snip] > > I subscribe to the cctech list, but I end up deleting most of the > email without even reading it. The only reason that I subscribe is > so I can send email to the list. > For the most part, I ignore the emails and read the list via web/http > at http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/ > > I wish there was a better way... > (I'd like to be listed as a subscriber, get no emails, but still be > allowed to send email to the cctech@classiccmp.org address) in that case, go to the URL you referenced, and change your subscription options so that you are set to 'nomail' - this will mean you do not receive emails from the list, but as a list member you are still entitled to post to it. -- _ __/| ___ ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer, \`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like =(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! neuro at well dot com http://neuro.me.uk/ From vaxman at earthlink.net Wed Feb 19 08:44:00 2003 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 question In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB786@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Can't help you with your current problem, but I recall reading the L0004 had a problem with the RS232 receiver chip. If the VAX was powered down while the console was still powered up, it would kill the chip. IIRC it is a 1488 or 1489 chip on the board. I think there is only one of each, but maybe there are two (one for console, one for TU58). Replacing the dead one will restore your console... Regards, Clint On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, John Willis wrote: > I just received a new board set for my VAX 11/750, which includes > an L0004 to replace the one I had before, which would send output > to the console, but wouldn't read input from the console. Now, however, > when I put in the new L0004, it prints garbage on the console. What's > more, > the _old_ L0004 doesn't print anything on the console anymore. Any > ideas? > > TIA, > John W. From neuro at well.com Wed Feb 19 08:51:01 2003 From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Please remove my address from your mailing list References: <084301c2d81d$5a3948b0$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net> Message-ID: <085f01c2d825$d062a330$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net> William Anderson wrote: > [snip] > > in that case, go to the URL you referenced, and change your subscription > options so that you are set to 'nomail' bah, i of course meant http://www.classiccmp.org/cctech.html - apologies -- _ __/| ___ ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer, \`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like =(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! neuro at well dot com http://neuro.me.uk/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 19 09:20:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030219151709.18965.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > Hi John, > > Can't help you with your current problem, but I recall reading the > L0004 had a problem with the RS232 receiver chip. If the VAX was > powered down while the console was still powered up, it would kill > the chip. Hmm... I won't say that _can't_ happen, but I ran a couple of 11/750s from 1984-1993 and it never _did_ happen to us. We typically used a CiTOH 101 sitting right on top of the CPU with a 2m cable, if that makes any difference. > IIRC it is a 1488 or 1489 chip on the board. I think there > is only one of each, but maybe there are two (one for console, one > for TU58). Replacing the dead one will restore your console... Don't forget to use a socket! -ethan From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 19 09:41:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAFA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > As I am the "scanner" of all the docs at mainecoon, I have > the original CD's (and in the mean time some 3 more...) > I could investigate the conversion to PDF, but it is quicker > if Jay tells me what he did. I downloaded the .tiff files. Opened them up in Microsofts image/fax viewer (included with Windows XP anyways). Then I selected all the pages by clicking on the top page (thumbnail view), then ctrl-clicking on the last page (thumbnail view). Then did a rotate counterclockwise 90 degrees cause all the pages were turned in the original. Then I printed them, using a fake printer driver that pops up asking you what file name you want to save them as, and it generates the .pdf file. This printer driver to pdf thing is a commercial product that cost me money. Can't remember who puts it out, but it works wonderfully. Basically ANY program which can print (under windows) like word, excel, 3rd party apps, etc. can go to pdf. If you ship me the CD's, I'll gladly convert all the .tiff files to .pdf files and send you pdf CD's back. Also, with your permission, I'd like to host those files on classiccmp.org as well - either independently or via a mirror. Bandwidth and storage isn't an issue. Regards, Jay West From hansp at aconit.org Wed Feb 19 10:06:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAFA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E53AACE.8010105@aconit.org> Jay West wrote: > This printer driver to pdf thing is a > commercial product that cost me money. Can't remember who puts it out, but > it works wonderfully. Basically ANY program which can print (under windows) > like word, excel, 3rd party apps, etc. can go to pdf. I have a commercial product called pdfFactory put out by FinePrint. It has done all I have asked of it (so far). Available at : http://www.pdffactory.com/ evaluation download available. I have no connection with this company other than being a satisfied customer. -- hbp From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 19 10:15:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAFA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E53AACE.8010105@aconit.org> Message-ID: <014b01c2d831$278f6020$033310ac@kwcorp.com> One word of caution... every single "evaluation" or "demo" or "shareware" package I could find that would do tiff to pdf conversion, stuck a really ANNOYING image on every page of the resulting output that was their company logo, or big letters over the middle of the document saying "evaluation", etc. Royal pain. In those, you can get rid of it by registering. My comercial one doesn't do that. There was a totally free one I found (dos based) that didn't do that and worked fine. However, it would not process multipage tiff files, only single page tiff files. Jay West From fm.arnold at gmx.net Wed Feb 19 10:27:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Transfer of Files From RSX-11 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20030219083003.4173.63700.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030219083003.4173.63700.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 19.02.2003: >Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:54:07 -0500 (EST) >From: John Lawson >Subject: Re: Transfer of Files From RSX-11 (fwd) > >The meta question is: what's he gonna do with the system once the data >is mined?? > >John > Well, knowing the degree of burocratism especialley in indian customs, I doubt very much if it will ever pass the border of this country again.... >> Yes it is a complete system. > > Ah... this makes the process *much* easier! A bit of info now would >be: what is the model of your DEC system? (ie PDP 11/23, VAX 11/750, >PRO350... etc) given the information that he has 8" diskettes, it will not be a PRO350. > >> I have checked Kermit but I could not find this S/W >> there. Might be my process was wrong. > > Hmmm... a lot of RSX systems had Kermit as part of the Distribution >Kit.. you can try: > > MCR> DIR kerm*.*,* > If he uses MCR on RSX, then shouldn't the command should be like: > >MCR MCR>[1,54]pip [*,*]kerm*.*,* /li MCR> ofcourse, if a catchall is active, it would pass the dir command eventually to DCL as well, but I don't think this will happen if you enter the comand to the explicit MCR> prompt (You are then talking to your own copy of MCR, just for you. And the catchall is not installed by default as far as I remember...) Frank From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Feb 19 10:31:01 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) In-Reply-To: <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAFA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030219162615.GC2088425@uiuc.edu> Adobe Acrobat (full version, not the reader) contains a driver that does that, and it's always worked quite well for me. Jay West said: > > As I am the "scanner" of all the docs at mainecoon, I have > > the original CD's (and in the mean time some 3 more...) > > I could investigate the conversion to PDF, but it is quicker > > if Jay tells me what he did. > > I downloaded the .tiff files. Opened them up in Microsofts image/fax viewer > (included with Windows XP anyways). Then I selected all the pages by > clicking on the top page (thumbnail view), then ctrl-clicking on the last > page (thumbnail view). Then did a rotate counterclockwise 90 degrees cause > all the pages were turned in the original. Then I printed them, using a fake > printer driver that pops up asking you what file name you want to save them > as, and it generates the .pdf file. This printer driver to pdf thing is a > commercial product that cost me money. Can't remember who puts it out, but > it works wonderfully. Basically ANY program which can print (under windows) > like word, excel, 3rd party apps, etc. can go to pdf. > > If you ship me the CD's, I'll gladly convert all the .tiff files to .pdf > files and send you pdf CD's back. Also, with your permission, I'd like to > host those files on classiccmp.org as well - either independently or via a > mirror. Bandwidth and storage isn't an issue. > > Regards, > > Jay West - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From kth at srv.net Wed Feb 19 10:48:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAFA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E53AACE.8010105@aconit.org> <014b01c2d831$278f6020$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E53BA22.8030807@srv.net> Jay West wrote: >One word of caution... every single "evaluation" or "demo" or "shareware" >package I could find that would do tiff to pdf conversion, stuck a really >ANNOYING image on every page of the resulting output that was their company >logo, or big letters over the middle of the document saying "evaluation", >etc. Royal pain. In those, you can get rid of it by registering. My >comercial one doesn't do that. There was a totally free one I found (dos >based) that didn't do that and worked fine. However, it would not process >multipage tiff files, only single page tiff files. > > > Just for informational purposes, and to offer a cheap solution: Under linux, I use the following commands to convert tiff files to pdf ones. tiffcp 0*.tif t1.tif tiff2ps -a t1.tif > t1.ps ps2pdf t1.ps t1.pdf rm t1.tif rm t1.ps Adjust the command lines based on the names of the actual files. The programs are: tiffcp - Merges multiple tiff files into a single multi-image tiff file. tiff2ps - Converts tiff file into postscript. You get a very large file from this. ps2pdf - Convert ps file into pdf file. Much smaller than the ps file. rm - Kill the multi-image tif file, and the ps file, since we are done with them. You have to do additional work if the tiff images have strange settings in their width/height, but I have only seen one scanned book that had this problem. These all come standard with RedHat 8.0. Other *nix systems probably have the same programs available, or can get them. I don't know if they are available for Windows. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 19 11:00:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 Message-ID: Tandy 1000 up for grabs. See below. Reply to original sender. Reply-to: trcatering@bmts.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:37:17 -0500 From: Tim Rodger Subject: Tandy 1000 Good morning. I have a Tandy 1000 from Radio Shack. It does not have any dos. The dos has to be loaded in before the system will work. There is no printer as well. Would you be interested in this computer? Best Regards, Timothy J. Rodger. C/O Tim Rodger Catering P.O. Box 562 Stn. Main Owen Sound, Ontario N4K 5R1 519-373-7270 trcatering@bmts.com -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jss at subatomix.com Wed Feb 19 11:07:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) In-Reply-To: <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAFA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3561296619.20030219110329@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, Jay West wrote: > I downloaded the .tiff files. Opened them up in Microsofts image/fax > viewer (included with Windows XP anyways). Oh, the horror. Get yourself IrfanView. It is much, much, faster than the WinXP viewer, at least when displaying multi-page TIFFs and changing pages on my 800MHz box. http://www.irfanview.com/ Another thing. Adobe Acrobat includes *two* printer drivers. There's Distiller and PDFWriter. I'm not sure why there are two, but Distiller is better. It gives you control over more things, like the DPI of the images in the PDF. If you are using PDFWriter, I suggest you switch over to Distiller. One caveat: IrfanView, TMK, won't rotate all the pages in the TIFF. After you create the PDF you'll need to open it up in Acrobat (not Reader but Acrobat proper), rotate the pages, and save. This, however, is a very quick operation, and it also gives you the opportunity to delete blank pages from the PDF or combine multiple PDFs into one. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Feb 19 11:15:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) In-Reply-To: <3E53BA22.8030807@srv.net> References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAFA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E53AACE.8010105@aconit.org> <014b01c2d831$278f6020$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E53BA22.8030807@srv.net> Message-ID: <10461792242.20030219111144@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > tiff2ps - Converts tiff file into postscript. > ps2pdf - Convert ps file into pdf file. This seems like a neat way to go, but before making any PDFs by this method, I'd check what tiff2ps and ps2pdf do to the DPI of images (any downsampling?), what compression types are used in the PDF, what information is in the title, author, etc. fields, what color correction profile is in the PDF (I use none), etc. There are a lot of parameters to the creation of a PDF. -- Jeffrey Sharp From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Feb 19 11:26:00 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) In-Reply-To: <10461792242.20030219111144@subatomix.com> References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAFA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E53AACE.8010105@aconit.org> <014b01c2d831$278f6020$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E53BA22.8030807@srv.net> <10461792242.20030219111144@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030219172219.GL2088425@uiuc.edu> I've noticed that the biggest pitfall of all the open-source PDF tools is that they don't antialias well, if at all, so most documents end up looking noticably crappier then if they had been produced with adobe's software. Jeffrey Sharp said: > On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > > tiff2ps - Converts tiff file into postscript. > > ps2pdf - Convert ps file into pdf file. > > This seems like a neat way to go, but before making any PDFs by this method, > I'd check what tiff2ps and ps2pdf do to the DPI of images (any > downsampling?), what compression types are used in the PDF, what information > is in the title, author, etc. fields, what color correction profile is in > the PDF (I use none), etc. There are a lot of parameters to the creation of > a PDF. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 19 11:29:01 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: DEC RC25 Drives Message-ID: A few weeks ago, I got a rather nice PDP-11/34 (34A, turnkey front panel) from a scrap yard. They had two identical systems being used in some sort of electronic testing devices. I only got one system because the other one looked like it had been hit by a forklift a couple times. It wasn't in great shape, so I salvaged some cards from it (CPU, memory, DELUA, drive controller, UNIBUS utility stuff...). My system is in very nice shape though. And along with the CPU, I also got two RC25 drives, along with controllers and cables. I've never seen these before. Can anyone tell me anything about them? They look like nice drives, but I've never really heard much about them. Anyway, this will be my third 11/34. Of the other two, I still have (and very much like) one, and one has been passed on to another list member. Anyway, more questions on recent acquisitions to come shortly, I'm sure. -- Owen Robertson From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 19 11:32:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Computime S-100 card docs? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030219123504.498f1598@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, I've been sorting through some stuff and I came across a couple of Computime S-100 cards. One is SB880 CPU card with a Z-80 CPU and the other is a Computime UFDC-1 card (floppy drive controller with a 1795 FDC IC). Does anyone have docs for either of these? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 19 11:33:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030219123616.498f59dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, Still sorting! Also found a Computer Systems Inc EXPANDABLE+ 64k S-100 memory card. I think it came out of the same system as the Computime cards. Does anyone have docs for this one? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 19 11:35:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Oops! Computer Systems Inc memory card? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030219123802.489f8f44@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Oops! It might help if I added a Subject! > >Hi, > > Still sorting! Also found a Computer Systems Inc EXPANDABLE+ 64k S-100 memory card. I think it came out of the same system as the Computime cards. Does anyone have docs for this one? > > Joe From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Feb 19 11:44:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) In-Reply-To: <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com>; from jwest@classiccmp.org on Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 16:18:35 CET References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAFA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030219183628.S41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.19 16:18 Jay West wrote: > I downloaded the .tiff files. Opened them up in Microsofts image/fax > viewer [...] > This printer driver to pdf thing > is a commercial product that cost me money. Here is a free solution for us *ix users, that I used to scan the "KA680 CPU Module Technical Manual EK-KA680-TM-001": Scan the doc to individual TIFFs. (300 dpi, B/W) I did this with Impressario on my SGI Indogo2 with a HP ScanJet 4c + ADF. Use the tools from libtiff (http://www.libtiff.org) and Ghostscript to convert them: tiffcp -c g4 *.tiff all.tiff tiff2ps -a all.tiff all.ps ps2pdf all.ps all.pdf rm all.tiff all.ps The G4 compression is better then bzip2 for this type of data. It compressed 560 TIFFs with 1 MB each to a single 20 MB PDF. A tar.bz2 was about 30 MB. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Feb 19 11:49:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: DEC RC25 Drives Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAA7@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Owen: the RC25 are DEC's attempt at creating funny things. They are MSCP disks (connect to UDA50 or KDA50) with an SDI bus. They are actually two drives in a single coffin- one winchester drive (13MByte) and a removable cartridge drive, also 13MB. So, one could back on the winchester to the removable, and so on. I have one here.. just no cartridge. --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Owen Robertson [mailto:univac2@earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 6:26 PM > To: Classic Computer Mailing List > Subject: DEC RC25 Drives > > > A few weeks ago, I got a rather nice PDP-11/34 (34A, turnkey > front panel) > from a scrap yard. They had two identical systems being used > in some sort of > electronic testing devices. I only got one system because the > other one > looked like it had been hit by a forklift a couple times. It > wasn't in great > shape, so I salvaged some cards from it (CPU, memory, DELUA, drive > controller, UNIBUS utility stuff...). > > My system is in very nice shape though. And along with the > CPU, I also got > two RC25 drives, along with controllers and cables. I've > never seen these > before. Can anyone tell me anything about them? They look > like nice drives, > but I've never really heard much about them. > > Anyway, this will be my third 11/34. Of the other two, I > still have (and > very much like) one, and one has been passed on to another > list member. > Anyway, more questions on recent acquisitions to come > shortly, I'm sure. > > -- > Owen Robertson From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Feb 19 12:00:25 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Wonder if there's any DEC stuff there... Message-ID: <20030219181646.GA12513@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Not sure how I got the following e-mail (spam?), but in case anyone's interested, perhaps there are some useful bits to be found. I wonder if they're auctioning off any DEC inventory from Compaq... didn't have a chance to look through all of the inventory. It looks like minimum bids are $200. Lots of Sun equipment. In case anyone's interested, here's the info: IT EXCHANGE #22 AUCTION http://www.dovebid.com/Auctions/AuctionDetail.asp?auctionID=1689&referraltag=itbuyr226 DoveBid, Inc. is conducting the 22nd in a series of Major IT Equipment Exchanges with a wide range of high-tech equipment. Auction will include surplus assets to ongoing operations from Compaq, now part of the new Hewlett-Packard, Teledesic and New Focus. Auction also includes fixed assets of Napster, Inc., NextCard and others. This auction features assets by Apple Computers, Compaq, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Foundry, IBM, and much more! Place your bids from the comfort of your computer with DoveBid's Webcast technology! -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From kenneth.hurd at navy.mil Wed Feb 19 12:02:00 2003 From: kenneth.hurd at navy.mil (Hurd, Kenneth Steven CIV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 Message-ID: Hello, Do you know if it is possible to install a 1.44MB floppy drive in a Zenith 100? Thank you. Ken. From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 19 12:05:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: DEC RC25 Drives In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAA7@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: on 2/19/03 11:45 AM, Fred N. van Kempen at Fred.van.Kempen@microwalt.nl wrote: > Owen: the RC25 are DEC's attempt at creating funny things. Well, I would call it a success. > They are MSCP disks (connect to UDA50 or KDA50) with an SDI > bus. They are actually two drives in a single coffin- one > winchester drive (13MByte) and a removable cartridge drive, > also 13MB. That explains a few things, like the 'Eject' button and the write-protect switches marked 'Fixed' and 'Removable'. I figured *something* had to be removable. :-) > I have one here.. just no cartridge. How do you tell if there's a cartridge in there or not? I haven't powered them up yet. Anyway, maybe I'll luck out and there will be an OS on there. Thanks for the information. -- Owen Robertson From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 19 12:33:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: DEC RC25 Drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030219182916.64040.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Owen Robertson wrote: > A few weeks ago, I got a rather nice PDP-11/34... I also got > two RC25 drives, along with controllers and cables. I've never seen these > before. Can anyone tell me anything about them? They look like nice > drives, but I've never really heard much about them. The controllers should be "KLESI/U" - an intellegent controller that, I think, should be able to talk to a model TU-80-something (not a straight TU-80 - that has formatted Pertec I/O over two 50-pin cables, IIRC) as well as the RC25 drive. Not sure if the controller can talk to more than one device at a time, though. You will not be able to spin it up without the removable cartridge. It has one motor and one positioner, but 50% of the storage is enclosed in a white disk pack several inches on a side and about 1/2" thick. I used to have one, embedded in a VAX-11/725, but it was on loan when the borrower's company was sold. I heard about the relocation too late. :-( I never had a problem with them, but I keep hearing horror stories from others. They are *not* high performance disks. The last time I saw one used in a production environment was well over 10 years ago, as the boot node for a small VAXcluster. VMS 5.0 fit on one, barely. Never seen one attached to a PDP-11, but there's no reason why it shouldn't work. I just don't think people were buying too many Unibus PDP-11s when the RC-25 came out. If you were going to spend real $$$, you'd probably have bought a UDA-50 and a "real" MSCP disk, or replaced the Unibus stuff with a MicroPDP and some flavor of RD5x drive (or in the case of one of my clients in 1986, an SMD controller and a Fuji SMD drive, if you didn't have a 100% DEC requirement). Probably plenty of room on them for RT-11 or RSTS. Don't know where you are going to find cartridges these days, though. Perhaps the usual suspects (Keyways, Continental Computer, Newman, Computer Clearing House...) -ethan From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Feb 19 12:40:01 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Tranfer of Files From RSX-11------II References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAA4@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3E53CEA0.9020504@Vishay.com> Fred, slowly drifting away from the original topic: does "your" Kermit version support Telnet sessions (MSKERMIT> SET HOST command)? And, are you logged in with elevated privileges (e.g., admin rights) to do so, or can a regular user enjoy MSKERMIT as well? Andreas Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > ALl, > > Andreas writes: > > >>>I'm not sure if the MSDOS version of kermit (which is free) >> >>will work under NT, but it might be worth a try. The win95 version is >>the commercial version (which costs money). >> >>OK, so if the Win95 version is also commercial, then the DOS variant >>remains. And I believe, if MSKERMIT will not run on the WinNT PC >>(which I am afraid will be true), at least DOS will hopefully run on >>the PC to support MSKERMIT. Then, you need a disk partition formatted >>as FAT (not NTFS), and you can move the files in through MSKERMIT and >>out (after rebooting into NT) with "Windoze Exploder". > > > Hmm. I still use my (Classic ;-) MSKERMIT V3.0 on my PC's, when I need > to, and this always worked fine under NT (4.0), and it works fine, too, > under W2K Pro. Version info is: > > ------------------------------------------ > MS-Kermit>vers > IBM-PC MS-Kermit: 3.00 16 Jan 1990 > MS-Kermit>quit > ------------------------------------------ > > If anyone wants it, contact me offlist and I'll email it.. its small. > > Fred -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Feb 19 12:53:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) In-Reply-To: <014b01c2d831$278f6020$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Jay West wrote: > One word of caution... every single "evaluation" or "demo" or "shareware" > package I could find that would do tiff to pdf conversion, stuck a really > ANNOYING image on every page of the resulting output that was their company > logo, or big letters over the middle of the document saying "evaluation", > etc. Royal pain. In those, you can get rid of it by registering. My > comercial one doesn't do that. There was a totally free one I found (dos > based) that didn't do that and worked fine. However, it would not process > multipage tiff files, only single page tiff files. Then I guess you haven't tried using ps2pdf (and something else to paste the tiff's together as ps), which is a part of ghostscript... It's all GPL'd aka free-beer, free-freedom, software that runs under Linux/Unix or (ick) Windows. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jss at subatomix.com Wed Feb 19 12:55:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Fwd: Person seeking PDP-11 SCSI In-Reply-To: <002501c2d83a$07a2fca0$0200a8c0@semtronix> References: <002501c2d83a$07a2fca0$0200a8c0@semtronix> Message-ID: <4767792119.20030219125144@subatomix.com> Reply to the original author, please. ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: timyen@semtronix.com Date: Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 11:12:06 AM Subject: PDP11 components I am in need of components for PDP11 mini. Among these are: a 1 Gb or more SCSI hard drive and the associated controller board. Hope you can help. Tim ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- Jeffrey Sharp From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Feb 19 13:00:00 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Attach 5-1/4 diskette - HOW In-Reply-To: <3E53CEA0.9020504@Vishay.com> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAA4@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030219135432.024dfe20@pop-server> I wish I could find an external 5-1/4" diskette drive that I could attach via USB to DELL 8200 (XP PRO), DELL T500 (Win98SE) or IBM Thinkpad 500 (Win3.11). Does anybody know if it is possible and if it is please tell me where to buy it or how to make it. In my research I have been told by a few computer shops that what I want to do is done on the IMAC all the time since it does not have a diskette drive. That makes sense. Is it ever done with a 5-1/4" diskette drive. If so could I somehow use it with USB connection on a PC? From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 19 13:14:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) References: Message-ID: <01d401c2d849$fd565160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Yes, actually I looked at several things, including ps2pdf which I have on quite a few FreeBSD boxes. However, I didn't want to do a two step conversion to an intermediate format (postscript). I was concerned introducing an intermediate format may cause image quality loss, the scans at maincoon are great quality to me. I'm not sure if this is an issue, as graphics are FAR from being my fortay. Jay West Patrick wrote... > Then I guess you haven't tried using ps2pdf (and something else to paste > the tiff's together as ps), which is a part of ghostscript... > > It's all GPL'd aka free-beer, free-freedom, software that runs under > Linux/Unix or (ick) Windows. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 19 13:17:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAFA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <20030219183628.S41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <01f201c2d84a$99f5d680$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > Here is a free solution for us *ix users, that I used to scan the "KA680 > CPU Module Technical Manual EK-KA680-TM-001": > Scan the doc to individual TIFFs. (300 dpi, B/W) I did this with > Impressario on my SGI Indogo2 with a HP ScanJet 4c + ADF. > Use the tools from libtiff (http://www.libtiff.org) and Ghostscript to > convert them: > tiffcp -c g4 *.tiff all.tiff > tiff2ps -a all.tiff all.ps > ps2pdf all.ps all.pdf > rm all.tiff all.ps > The G4 compression is better then bzip2 for this type of data. It > compressed 560 TIFFs with 1 MB each to a single 20 MB PDF. A tar.bz2 was > about 30 MB. Yes but.... changing the multipage tiffs to single page tiffs is very work-intensive... some of the manuals on the mancoon site have hundreds of (I think one I was looking at was 600) pages. I needed something that worked with multipage tiffs. I found it much easier to just click "print". Jay West From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 19 13:24:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030219142420.4697025c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:57 AM 2/19/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, > > Do you know if it is possible to install a 1.44MB floppy drive in a Zenith >100? > > Thank you. > > Ken. > Yes I know. Joe From kittstr at access-4-free.com Wed Feb 19 13:48:01 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: TI-99/A Message-ID: <000201c2d84f$5e604a60$1fd2d63f@amscomputer> Hi, First off I want to thank all who contributed on using VHS tapes as storage, I really appreciate your input. Now my problem is with my TI-99\A home computer. I have noticed that the keyboard is dying. I have been having to hit the keys harder and harder and now some don't work at all. I took it apart and the keyboard seems to be one unit (not disassemble-able). The keycaps don't seem to want to come off either. I was hoping to take the keys apart and clean the contacts but I don't want to break them, if they aren't so posed to come off. Does anyone have any experience cleaning these keyboards? If they are a "toss and replace" component, does anyone know where I could get one? Thanks for any help you can provide. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Feb 19 14:35:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: 6871B Message-ID: More chip dredging revealed an MC6871B - a sort of oddball 1 MHz clock driver/oscillator for the 6800. Interesting metal and ceramic package. Anyone interested in this for postage? $2.00 in the U.S.? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 19 14:54:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <3E521900.9070.9FC879F@localhost> References: <3E521900.9070.9FC879F@localhost> Message-ID: <4441.4.20.168.218.1045687839.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Stan Sieler asks: > but...does anyone know the first data of a binary (not ASCII) > file transmission via modem? I assume that was a typo, and you want the date, not the data? > (I know of some done in 1975, from an IBM > mainframe to a DG Nova.) At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that could do this, so I rather imagine people probably did binary transfers even in those days, but I don't have any proof of it. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Feb 19 14:56:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: RL02 docs in PDF (re:11/44) In-Reply-To: <01f201c2d84a$99f5d680$033310ac@kwcorp.com>; from jwest@classiccmp.org on Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 20:10:44 CET References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAFA@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <00d701c2d82a$2bed6740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <20030219183628.S41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <01f201c2d84a$99f5d680$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030219214739.C41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.19 20:10 Jay West wrote: > Yes but.... changing the multipage tiffs to single page tiffs is very > work-intensive... /bin/ksh is your friend. ;-) > I needed something that worked with multipage tiffs. Well, the first command copys all images into one large multipage TIFF for further processing. Impressario is able to scan directly into a multipage TIFF, but I could not use this feature for other reasons... > I found it much easier to just click "print". That is why I found it nice to be able to make a PDF. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Feb 19 15:09:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <4441.4.20.168.218.1045687839.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > > (I know of some done in 1975, from an IBM > > mainframe to a DG Nova.) > > At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that could do this, so > I rather imagine people probably did binary transfers even in those days, > but I don't have any proof of it. Well, modems predate computers, so "first" is probably not a great word to use. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From alhartman at yahoo.com Wed Feb 19 15:16:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:02 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #464 - 51 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030219171500.9003.83581.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030219211220.73149.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Sellam Babbled: > > So, let's get back to discussing Classic Computers... > > We'd better, since some of us seem too naive to > seriously discuss politics. I wouldn't call you naive, simply misinformed and combative... You'll come around once you go out into the real world and get the data. This is the best country in the world to live in. Not perfect. Can't say we don't make mistakes, or haven't in the past... We are only human, after all... But, I think we are doing the Human thing, and the Nation thing better than any other country out there. The fact that you like to promulgate left wing lies and self abusive statements doesn't change the facts, or reality. You'd do better to keep your fantasys (disguised as politics) off this list. But, there are several lists devoted to Horror and Fairy Tales that might find your posts in this vein humorous. I know they gave me a HUGE laugh... Why do even live in America if you think it's so evil? Try living in Iraq, Iran, or ANY Muslim country and check back with me... OK? Al From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Feb 19 16:21:00 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Gateway 2000 Handbook 486 question In-Reply-To: <3E531B03.6020404@internet1.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030218080340.03424740@pop.freeserve.net> At 00:49 19/02/2003 -0500, Chad Fernandez wrote: >Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >>The first version of 95 wasn't called anything other than "Windows 95". >>The SECOND version of 95 was called "OSR1"! > >I thought OSr1 was the first version. I've only ever heard of OSr1, 2, >and 2.5. I didn't think USB support was included until 2.5 There were at least four versions of Win95, characterised by the version number on an installed system having nothing, or an A, B, or C after it. Each added more features and more system requirements. There were also various OEM-customised options, not to mention the foreign language, upgrade, and floppy-disc versions! I've got W95 (original version) installed quite happily on 486-sx machines with ~4Mb RAM and <200Mb hard discs, do a custom install and de-select almost everything, then go back in after and delete most of the rest too! I (used to) use those just as terminal-server clients. As an aside (and probably OT) I got given a dropped Celeron laptop yesterday; lid hinges smashed (fixable if not pretty) and dead IDE interface, but it'll boot off floppy/cd. Next project (when I have time) is to work out how to make a boot-cd that'll unzip windows into RAMdisc, or rather, how to create and zip up a windows that'll already be set up for a machine I don't have another example of.. maybe I'll just network-boot it.. Rob From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Feb 19 16:41:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: digital finds References: <019401c2d3c7$00967c10$3108dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3E5406B6.1040600@gifford.co.uk> Keys wrote: > Picked up six VT420 models today 1-C2; 1-A4; 3-A2's. None tested yet? I got a slightly grubby VT420 at a Linux installfest the other day. Don't know what version, though. Is it on the label or do I have to look at the startup messages or the config screens? Also got an LK401 with the terminal and an LK201 as a spare. The LK201 seems to have been in use at the University of Bath since the 1970s. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From mranalog at attbi.com Wed Feb 19 16:43:00 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: OT: The best way to stop this dribble... Message-ID: <3E5407AD.409275AC@attbi.com> I heard tons of opinions being spewed, not a fact in the bunch....followed by genuine shock that not everyone has the same opinions. My opinion is that the best way to stop this dribble is to put the whole cctalk list on digest. That would make it much harder to carry on an argument. --Doug P.S. When I'm tempted to reply to one of these tirades, I think about it after I finish the message. Thats why my drafts folder is so full. ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From vance at neurotica.com Wed Feb 19 17:11:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <4441.4.20.168.218.1045687839.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > > (I know of some done in 1975, from an IBM mainframe to a DG Nova.) > > At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that could do this, so I > rather imagine people probably did binary transfers even in those days, > but I don't have any proof of it. It's not completely relevant to the discussion, but I remember my father mentioning at one point that his favored method for moving scientific data around unconnected IBM equipment in 1962 was to punch cards in his lab, walk them down to the ops center and have them read into the other system. Peace... Sridhar From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 19 17:42:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 1 Level II In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Feb 18, 3 07:46:37 pm Message-ID: > > You say it's an L2 machine. Does it have the ROM in 2 off 24 pin chips on > > the mainboard (one is 8K, the other 4K, and there are some cut-n-jumper > > mods), or is it old enough to have the extra PCB with 3 24 pin chips > > (eack 4K) and the address decoder? > > It's the former - 2 ROMs and 2 DIP shunts. So it's a fairly late one. The older version still has the 2 DIP sockets (filled with 2K chips for the L1 BASIC!) but the L2 upgrade was a PCB that was stuck to the solder side of the main PCB. It had a ribbon cable that plugged into one of the ROM sockets (now empty) to pick up power, data lines, and most of the address lines, and a 4-wire (I think) cable that was soldered topins of the chips on the mainboard for the extra address lines. > > Indeed. The introduction is rather amusing... (As you may have guessed, I > > have this manual...) > > The whole thing is amusing IMO, I loved the 'real world' section where he's > done a schematic to allow your TRS80 to control the power on your coffee > machine :) Oh yes :-)... > > > Be warned that much of the tech manual is written assuming you have a L1 > > machine. I don't know what L2 does if it can't find any RAM, for > > example... > > It does predictable things along the lines of no ROM; I can't remember the > resulting screen though. The couple of replies I got on comp.sys.tandy also L1 machines give a 32*16 mode display of colons if there's no RAM (or if the RAM DIP shunt is pulled). I don't know if L2 machines do the same. Any machine will give the @9 display with no ROMs. Fairly obviously it doesn't matter if those ROMs were L1 or L2... > suggest ROM failure and/or address lines and/or data lines. > > > With the ROMs pulled, all the address lines should be toggling (as the > > CPU tries to continually push 39 00 onto the stack). You can check this. > > Yep, I'm being dense again and struggling to find a good link to ground I The -ve side of the largest capacitor in the PSU section is ground IIRC. > > Yes, the M1 uses DRAMs for the main memory. Either 4K or 16K parts. > > The schematic also mentions 8K parts, but since that's from the tech ref it Whill this is probably true, I've never seen an 8K machine, or indeed, an 8K DRAM. I would think that L2 would work with 8K RAM (it will work with 4K RAM, although it's not very useable). > might only apply to L1 machines? I suppose I can always steal memory from > the model III that's still in bits? (mail in your inbox about that) Yes, both machines use the same 16K DRAM chips (4116s or equivalent). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 19 17:43:30 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: DEC Monitor In-Reply-To: <3E52A1A3.F7C1F155@justASKthem.com> from "Survey-Admin" at Feb 18, 3 04:12:03 pm Message-ID: > You list a VR201-C PRO monitor. [....] > The monitor includes a 15-pin connector, which I'll gues is db-15, and > an RJ-11 keyboard jack. It's a DA15 connector. The _only_ DB you're likely to come across is the DB25 (true RS232 connector). There is a DB44, but it's not common... [For the uninitiated, the letter after the 'D' gives the size of the connector shell.] > > Does your monitor include these connectors? A VR201 has those connectors. > > Would it work on a DEC Unix system? What sort of DEC Unix system? It'll work on a Rainbow, a PRO (which could be running Venix), a DECmate, a VT240 terminal, etc. It won't work, AFAIK, on a VAXstation or DECstation. If it is a machine that uses a VR201, then another solution, if you're handy with a soldering iron, is to make up a little adapter with a DA15 plug, an RJ11 socket, and a connector (RCA phono, BNC) to connect a TV-rate composite mono monitor to. The VR201 is just a very conventional TV rate monitor with slightly strange connectors. Actually, VR201s can be repaied, and the circuitry is very conventional. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 19 17:45:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <3E52E731.3020403@mich.com> from "Dave Mabry" at Feb 18, 3 09:08:49 pm Message-ID: > so many different implementations. Just about any operating system has > one or more versions of Kermit. Even the HP calculators have Kermit > (the 48 and 49 I think). Correct, and the 48G, 48GX, 49G also have Xmodem. I have never seen a version of Kermit for the HP71B + RS232 port (even though it would be certainly possible to write one). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 19 17:45:42 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Victor Computer anyone? In-Reply-To: <3E533DE6.25866.2D74D5B9@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 19, 3 08:18:46 am Message-ID: > > > were the best available computers at the time, when the TRS-80 was > > > Dubious claim. In 1980, there were graphics workstations (PERQ 1a, > > certainly), VAXen, supercomputers, etc... > > Aren't you talking a different class now? For 1980, the Victor Sure. I am disputing that the Victor 9000 was 'the best available computer', not that it was a very nice machine for the time. > was realy top notch at an afordable price. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 19 17:46:24 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: HP-IB Mass Storage Emulation (Help) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030219002736.00b06ad0@mail.ultrasw.com> from "jdavid" at Feb 19, 3 00:56:37 am Message-ID: > Tony Duell beat me to this when he wrote: > "There have been many devices which implemented the IEEE-488 bus (GPIB, > HPIB) using a standard parallel interface chip like the 6821 or 6522 > together with buffers." > > My Osborne 1 (Z80, 64K, CP/M, 5 1/4 floppies, tan case, '82) labeled > their parallel port "IEEE-488" (aka HP-IB) and wrote low level routines > for the eight basic HP-IB commands into the bios. They used a 6821 PIA > to drive the port, an interesting mixing of chip families. My computer THat doesn't really suprise me. To handle IEEE-488 you need (a) to be able to control the direction of some of the lines individually (IFC is an output on the controller, an input on everything else, etc) and (b) need to be able to change the direction of the lines without affecting anything else. Intel's 8255, possibly the worst parallel port chip ever, can do neither. The direction of all the port A lines has to be the same (and ditto for port B), while the direction of port C can be set on a nybble basis. Worse than that, though, is the fact that any write to the mode control register will set all output lines to 0 (again, the worst possible choice -- a floating TTL input will assume a '1' state, so a TTL input connected to an 8255 line set as an input will be a '1'. As soon as you select that line to be an output, it becomes a '0'. You have to design external hardware that will behave sensibly if all the lines are '1's or if they're all '0's.). -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 19 18:08:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Victor Computer anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > We had several Victor 9000's. They ran CP/M and a proprietary MS-DOS. They > had built-in codec. They actually predated the IBM PC back in 1980. They WHEN did the Victor 9000 come out? I doubt that it was available in 1980, and certainly NOT with MS-DOS, nor CP/M-86. The most authoritative sites that I can find say 1982, which is consistent with my experience. The IBM PC was August 1981, although it was hard to get until 1982. The Victor certainly did NOT have MS-DOS before the IBM PC. Microsoft's deal with IBM did not let them release it to others until the launch of the PC. And then, Microsoft could not sell it as a retail product (only through OEMs) for 10 years - MS-DOS V5.00 marks the end of that NCA. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Feb 19 18:19:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: DEC RC25 Drives References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAA7@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3E541E29.6C2FF3E2@compsys.to> >"Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > Owen: the RC25 are DEC's attempt at creating funny things. Jerome Fine replies: Correction: "The RC25 WAS DEC's attempt at creating funny things." > They are MSCP disks (connect to UDA50 or KDA50) with an SDI > bus. They are actually two drives in a single coffin- one > winchester drive (13MByte) and a removable cartridge drive, > also 13MB. So, one could back on the winchester to the > removable, and so on. I like that analogy - "coffin"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The few people who provided any direct information about the RC25 stated they were the worst drive ever - by any standards for any computer - well, maybe for a computer that needed to use the data again (grin). If the RC25 was used with just ONE cartridge ALL the time and it was not turned off, then it often lasted for a week or even two. So while the drive and the cartridge were much smaller than an RL02, the difference in reliability was like the difference in size between an electron and the Earth. > I have one here.. just no cartridge. Why bother? If you can read your media - if you have any - just read them and back them up. Otherwise, you might want to use the RC25 as a scratch drive for a few years to see if your RC25 is reliable. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From acme at ao.net Wed Feb 19 18:54:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 Message-ID: <200302200050.TAA23891@eola.ao.net> Aw, come on, Joe! Enlighten the guy! (I know too) Glen 0/0 > At 09:57 AM 2/19/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Hello, > > > > Do you know if it is possible to install a 1.44MB floppy drive in a Zenith > >100? > > > > Thank you. > > > > Ken. > > > > Yes I know. > > Joe From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Feb 19 19:58:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <200302180700.h1I70MnZ014872@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030220022157.GA12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Mail List, from writings of Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 09:30:56PM -0500: > Come on man, this can't be true, can it? Where did you find this > information? [about Bush administration officials and their connection to a group that favors stoning people to death for offenses that violate Biblical teachings, such as stoning women to death for extramarital affairs] > And is it factual? Check it out for yourself: http://www.au.org/press/pr021114.htm Also, keep in mind that the Bush Administration unofficially requires staff members to attend Bible study in the White House, and at least one member of the staff has resigned over this unofficial requirement. Draw your own conclusion. For further information, check out an article in the Baltimore Sun (www.sunspot.net) about Bush and religion: "Bush turns increasingly to language of religion," (Published: 02/10/03) Here's another interesting little tidbit of information connecting the Shrub administration to religious extremism, displaying the administration's apparent dislike for science and rational thought (does anyone want to place a bet on how long it will be until an "Intellectual Thought Crimes Act" is proposed by the administration?): President Bush has announced his plan to select Dr. W. David Hager to head up the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee. Hager is a practicing obstetrician-gynecologist, and sources told Time magazine that in his private practice he will not prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women. He is also the author of a book which suggests that women who suffer from premenstrual syndrome should seek help from reading the bible and praying. The Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee is responsible for offering expert scientific and medical advice to the FDA on matters relating to drugs used in the practice of obstetrics, gynecology, and related [...] > You are a unique individual. Should not everyone be a unique, free-thinking, individual? > It seems you have some "conspierist" theories of the US > Government. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Conspiracy. The word is conspiracy, as most people, of reasonable intellect, learned by the time they were old enough to vote or discuss politics. However, no, I don't really think that what I write about has much of anything to do with conspiracy theories, despite your fanciful thinking. Does denying reality truly make you happy? > We're actually fairly close neighbors. Someday I'd like to meet Eh? We might both be on the same side of the Mason-Dixon line, but you're in a different state... not exactly close by. Alas, we're not close enough neighbors for a nice neighborly feud... dang. ;-) > you. Not to argue your point of view, but just to try to understand > it. Here's the key to understanding what I've written: Try thinking for yourself----that's what you have a useable brain (it must be somewhat functional, as you appear to have sense enough to like DEC equipment :-)) for, and you may begin to understand not only my way of thinking, but the way of thinking of the many other individuals on this list---who are capable of independent thought, whether or not they share any of my views. I don't claim to always be 100-percent correct, although I can at least say that I think for myself, and I try not to be a pawn of the propaganda pushers on the right or left. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From davebarnes at adelphia.net Wed Feb 19 20:39:00 2003 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: DEC RC25 Drives References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAA7@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3E544006.72871E90@adelphia.net> To add and correct, the RC25 drive was manufactured by CDC and NOT digital. Its 26mb fixed and 26mb removable, for a total of 52mb. Used to have a bunch... they are NOT the most reliable things around, but with proper handling procedures they worked... "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > Owen: the RC25 are DEC's attempt at creating funny things. > > They are MSCP disks (connect to UDA50 or KDA50) with an SDI > bus. They are actually two drives in a single coffin- one > winchester drive (13MByte) and a removable cartridge drive, > also 13MB. So, one could back on the winchester to the > removable, and so on. > > I have one here.. just no cartridge. > > --f > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Owen Robertson [mailto:univac2@earthlink.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 6:26 PM > > To: Classic Computer Mailing List > > Subject: DEC RC25 Drives > > > > > > A few weeks ago, I got a rather nice PDP-11/34 (34A, turnkey > > front panel) > > from a scrap yard. They had two identical systems being used > > in some sort of > > electronic testing devices. I only got one system because the > > other one > > looked like it had been hit by a forklift a couple times. It > > wasn't in great > > shape, so I salvaged some cards from it (CPU, memory, DELUA, drive > > controller, UNIBUS utility stuff...). > > > > My system is in very nice shape though. And along with the > > CPU, I also got > > two RC25 drives, along with controllers and cables. I've > > never seen these > > before. Can anyone tell me anything about them? They look > > like nice drives, > > but I've never really heard much about them. > > > > Anyway, this will be my third 11/34. Of the other two, I > > still have (and > > very much like) one, and one has been passed on to another > > list member. > > Anyway, more questions on recent acquisitions to come > > shortly, I'm sure. > > > > -- > > Owen Robertson -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From allain at panix.com Wed Feb 19 20:48:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS References: <3E521900.9070.9FC879F@localhost> <4441.4.20.168.218.1045687839.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <00ab01c2d889$fcdf3180$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Stan Sieler asks: >> but...does anyone know the first data of a binary (not ASCII) >> file transmission via modem? > At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that could do this, Some more date/a: ""the first model of the first commercial modem," a box in which a phone handset could be placed, allowing a computer to say "beep beep" to another over long distances. Lee was almost right. He actually had the second model of the "magnetic/acoustic coupler," manufactured for Tymshare, Inc. by Climet Instruments about 1966" -- http://membres.inforoots.org/dguardiola/Lee_Felsenstein/CMP-mails.htm John A. From jplist at kiwigeek.com Wed Feb 19 21:42:00 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Sun 4/470 in Salinas, CA Message-ID: I was contacted by a chap who spotted on my page that I had a 4/470, and wanted to know did I want another one... Unfortunately there's no way in heck I can afford to ship one from California to Iowa, so I'm passing it onto you fine folks to take it off his hands... His wife says to get rid of it, he's already tried to donate it to a local college and even a surplus store, with no takers. He lives in Salinas, CA, which is near Monterey, but he commutes evenings to Santa Clara. He can be contacted here: "Dougherty, Paul" JP From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Feb 20 00:12:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Victor Computer anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E547F2A.15745.325BC7A7@localhost> > > We had several Victor 9000's. They ran CP/M and a proprietary MS-DOS. They > > had built-in codec. They actually predated the IBM PC back in 1980. They > WHEN did the Victor 9000 come out? > I doubt that it was available in 1980, and certainly NOT with MS-DOS, nor > CP/M-86. It was CP/M-86 in the beginning, but they adopted MS-DOS quite fast. Still, at least for some time, CP/M was the mostly used OS. (and beeing serious, MS-DOS 1.0 didn't offer any advantage after all. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Feb 20 00:29:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030220022157.GA12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <200302180700.h1I70MnZ014872@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030219235011.0655ae90@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Robert, > Check it out for yourself: > http://www.au.org/press/pr021114.htm I took a look at that. It looked like one administration official was in the proximity of a person that might have had that opinion. I didn't see that the administration official shared that exact opinion, nor that the entire Bush administration is being influenced by it. I must admit I limited the amount of time spent analyzing it. In fact I just spared the time for a brief scan. These days just about anyone can upload just about any point of view and make just about any claim they want on a page on the internet. In just a couple minutes with google ... Here's a Survivalist's Page http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6856/home.html Here's a Christian Fundamentalist's Page http://www.falwell.com/ Islamic Fundamentalists ??? http://ikashmir.org/fundamentalism.html The John Birch Society ... The Far, Far, Right Wing point of view ??? http://www.jbs.org/ The Anarchists ??? http://www.radio4all.org/anarchy/ The Communists ??? http://www.communism.org/ The Neo-Nazis ??? http://www.geocities.com/newworldorder_themovie/intro_neonazi.html In other words, every "ist" or "izm" point of view is out there. There is one common feature to everyone of them. They all claim to be telling the truth, and that their point of view is the correct one. Reminds me of political "phamplets" printed and distributed by underground organizations in the past. What they are distributing is their opinion. And of course it would be claimed as fact. These days this distribution can be done at much lower cost. No printing. No paper. Just web space and a connection. Some of it you just have to take with a grain of salt. I don't think it is any real danger. Plus we have a system of government with checks and balances built into it. There could be individuals employed by or in some other way providing services to our government that may personally have an opinion that may be somewhat "unique" unto themselves but will never pass all the hurdles required to become national policy or law to affect everyone. But in this country with freedom of speech, and freedom of the press, to have your point of view is your right, just as long as you keep your actions within the confines of the law. But when you tell your point of view to others that hold a different point of view, there is the potential for disagreement. And when you tell others that have a different point of view that they are wrong because they don't share your point of view, disagreement is a very likely outcome. > Conspiracy. The word is conspiracy No, I was looking for a different variant. I keep a dictionary on my shelf above the computer. I did check and didn't find the correct spelling for the variant I was looking for, so I noted that I doubted the spelling was correct, and moved on. Again, it was the need to limit the amount of time spent on that one item. > Try thinking for yourself I do. That's why I don't believe everything I read or everything I hear. On the internet, in the newspapers, or on TV. > you may begin to understand not only my way of thinking, but > the way of thinking of the many other individuals on this list I understand the point of view of many others too. But I remember having read just about everything I have read. I also cross correlate information from numerous sources. In doing so, I have discovered some dichotomies. I then put thought into the analysis of why these dichotomies might exist, and unfortunately, sometimes, there is much going on other than would be noted from examining only one source. Best Regards At 09:21 PM 2/19/03 -0500, you wrote: >Quothe Mail List, from writings of Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 09:30:56PM -0500: > > Come on man, this can't be true, can it? Where did you find this > > information? > >[about Bush administration officials and their connection to a group >that favors stoning people to death for offenses that violate Biblical >teachings, such as stoning women to death for extramarital affairs] > > > And is it factual? > >Check it out for yourself: > >http://www.au.org/press/pr021114.htm > >Also, keep in mind that the Bush Administration unofficially requires >staff members to attend Bible study in the White House, and at least >one member of the staff has resigned over this unofficial requirement. >Draw your own conclusion. For further information, check out an >article in the Baltimore Sun (www.sunspot.net) about Bush and >religion: > >"Bush turns increasingly to language of religion," (Published: 02/10/03) > >Here's another interesting little tidbit of information connecting the >Shrub administration to religious extremism, displaying the >administration's apparent dislike for science and rational thought >(does anyone want to place a bet on how long it will be until an >"Intellectual Thought Crimes Act" is proposed by the administration?): > > President Bush has announced his plan to select Dr. W. > David Hager to head up the Food and Drug > Administration's (FDA) Reproductive Health Drugs > Advisory Committee. Hager is a practicing > obstetrician-gynecologist, and sources told Time > magazine that in his private practice he will not > prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women. He is also > the author of a book which suggests that women who > suffer from premenstrual syndrome should seek help from > reading the bible and praying. > > The Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee is > responsible for offering expert scientific and medical > advice to the FDA on matters relating to drugs used in > the practice of obstetrics, gynecology, and related [...] > > > You are a unique individual. > >Should not everyone be a unique, free-thinking, individual? > > > It seems you have some "conspierist" theories of the US > > Government. ^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Conspiracy. The word is conspiracy, as most people, of reasonable >intellect, learned by the time they were old enough to vote or discuss >politics. However, no, I don't really think that what I write about >has much of anything to do with conspiracy theories, despite your >fanciful thinking. Does denying reality truly make you happy? > > > We're actually fairly close neighbors. Someday I'd like to meet > >Eh? We might both be on the same side of the Mason-Dixon line, but >you're in a different state... not exactly close by. Alas, we're not >close enough neighbors for a nice neighborly feud... dang. ;-) > > > you. Not to argue your point of view, but just to try to understand > > it. > >Here's the key to understanding what I've written: Try thinking for >yourself----that's what you have a useable brain (it must be somewhat >functional, as you appear to have sense enough to like DEC equipment >:-)) for, and you may begin to understand not only my way of thinking, >but the way of thinking of the many other individuals on this >list---who are capable of independent thought, whether or not they >share any of my views. I don't claim to always be 100-percent >correct, although I can at least say that I think for myself, and I >try not to be a pawn of the propaganda pushers on the right or left. > >-- >Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: >All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & >rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify >such >http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From drido at optushome.com.au Thu Feb 20 02:58:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Using non-sun mice on a sparc? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030220194833.00fdcf90@mail.optushome.com.au> I'm trying to get Sparcstation 1 up and running with Redhat Linux, but I don't have any sun mice. I noticed as the install CD boots it looks for a mouse-systems mouse. I have some other workstation mice around here somewhere, and I think at least some of them were marked mouse-systems. Has anyone managed adapt any other mice for use on a Sparc? I know there are some commercial sun to ps/2 adapter, but $75 is a bit much to spend on an adapter for a $5 computer. I though about using a serial mouse, but porting the PC driver to Sparc is way beyond my current skill level. I could always just buy a sun mouse, but the shipping/currency conversion charges are likely to be more than the cost of the mouse itself. Any ideas appreciated... From roart at nvg.ntnu.no Thu Feb 20 03:38:00 2003 From: roart at nvg.ntnu.no (roart@nvg.ntnu.no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <0301182144.AA03643@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0301182144.AA03643@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20030220093404.GR1251@nvg.ntnu.no> On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 01:44:31PM -0800, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Some day I will lift the SCA code wholesale from Ultrix and plop it into > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. How can that be done legally? -- -Roar Thron?s From Mark.Nias at SurfControl.com Thu Feb 20 06:00:01 2003 From: Mark.Nias at SurfControl.com (Mark Nias) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Going free: IBM PowerStation 530 Message-ID: <5102EABE9C6E5C4B9C65D5928D4ABE9005169631@saturn.surfcontrol.com> hi Folks... i have an IBM PowerStation 530 free to a good home in the UK (Cheshire) if anyone is interested in it. It appears to be non-working... it powers up, but the status indicator seems to show it's not booting properly. I dont have a monitor or keyboard to test it. I saved it from the skip about 18 months ago with the idea of resurecting it, but the lack of manuals & software make it pretty hard. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.nias/images/power01.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.nias/images/power02.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.nias/images/power03.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.nias/images/power04.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.nias/images/power05.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.nias/images/power06.jpg if anyone is interested in it, drop me an email... if not it's heading for the bin! thanks mark Get the latest news on SurfControl and our products, subscribe to our monthly e-newsletter, SurfAdvisory at: http://surfcontrol.us-hosts.com/sc/subscribe ********************************************************************* The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender. ********************************************************************* From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Feb 20 07:30:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at Feb 19, 03 05:48:32 pm Message-ID: <200302201324.IAA04068@wordstock.com> And thusly vance@neurotica.com spake: > > It's not completely relevant to the discussion, but I remember my father > mentioning at one point that his favored method for moving scientific data > around unconnected IBM equipment in 1962 was to punch cards in his lab, > walk them down to the ops center and have them read into the other system. > > Peace... Sridhar > OOooooh! SneakerNet! ;) Cheers, Bryan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 20 07:38:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 In-Reply-To: <200302200050.TAA23891@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030220082256.3b87fbea@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Oh. I thought he just wanted to know if anyone knew if a 3.5" drive would work in a Z-100. He didn't come out and ask if the drive would work. Anyway, yes, a 3.5" drive can be used in the Z-100. You can connect it and tell the Z-100 that it's an 8" drive and it will use 77 tracks of the 3.5" disk and format it like an 8" drive but that will give you a non-standard disk format and the disk that couldn't be written/read on another computer. OR you can just connect the 3.5" drive and let the Z-100 think that it's a 40 track 5.25" drive but that won't gain anything but a non-standard disk format. OR there is supposed to be a way to use 80 track 5.25" drives on the Z-100. I don't remember what was involved but if you can find out, you could put in that mod with the 3.5" drives and double your disk capacity but you'd still have a non-standard disk format. OR you can get a copy of MS-DOS 4.00 and patch it to run on the Z-100. DOS 4.00 supports 3.5" drives. There was (is?) a website that had the patches but I don't have the URL for it here. Perhaps Rich Beaudry still has it. I remember that it was located in such a way that a search wouldn't find it so someone will have to give you the URL. The guy that had the website was a real whiz on the Z-100s and he had done a lot of interesting patches/mods for the Z-100s including writing SCSI drivers and designing and building SCSI interfaces for them. All in all, the last option would be the best. It would give you a lot more disk capacity and the disks would be a standard format and could be interchanged with a standard PC. Joe At 07:50 PM 2/19/03 -0500, Glen wrote: >Aw, come on, Joe! Enlighten the guy! > >(I know too) > >Glen >0/0 > >> At 09:57 AM 2/19/03 -0500, you wrote: >> >Hello, >> > >> > Do you know if it is possible to install a 1.44MB floppy drive in a Zenith >> >100? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > Ken. >> > >> >> Yes I know. >> >> Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 20 07:38:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030220022157.GA12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <200302180700.h1I70MnZ014872@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030220083042.3b8f473e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:21 PM 2/19/03 -0500, you wrote: >Quothe Mail List, from writings of Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 09:30:56PM -0500: >> Come on man, this can't be true, can it? Where did you find this >> information? > >[about Bush administration officials and their connection to a group >that favors stoning people to death for offenses that violate Biblical >teachings, such as stoning women to death for extramarital affairs] > >> And is it factual? > >Check it out for yourself: > >http://www.au.org/press/pr021114.htm Yikes! We're back in the 16th century! When do the witch trials begin? I never heard a word of this in the US news reports. Just goes to show how controlled our news really is. It makes you wonder what else we're not being told! Joe > >Also, keep in mind that the Bush Administration unofficially requires >staff members to attend Bible study in the White House, and at least >one member of the staff has resigned over this unofficial requirement. >Draw your own conclusion. For further information, check out an >article in the Baltimore Sun (www.sunspot.net) about Bush and >religion: > >"Bush turns increasingly to language of religion," (Published: 02/10/03) > >Here's another interesting little tidbit of information connecting the >Shrub administration to religious extremism, displaying the >administration's apparent dislike for science and rational thought >(does anyone want to place a bet on how long it will be until an >"Intellectual Thought Crimes Act" is proposed by the administration?): > > President Bush has announced his plan to select Dr. W. > David Hager to head up the Food and Drug > Administration's (FDA) Reproductive Health Drugs > Advisory Committee. Hager is a practicing > obstetrician-gynecologist, and sources told Time > magazine that in his private practice he will not > prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women. He is also > the author of a book which suggests that women who > suffer from premenstrual syndrome should seek help from > reading the bible and praying. > > The Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee is > responsible for offering expert scientific and medical > advice to the FDA on matters relating to drugs used in > the practice of obstetrics, gynecology, and related [...] > >> You are a unique individual. > >Should not everyone be a unique, free-thinking, individual? > >> It seems you have some "conspierist" theories of the US >> Government. ^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Conspiracy. The word is conspiracy, as most people, of reasonable >intellect, learned by the time they were old enough to vote or discuss >politics. However, no, I don't really think that what I write about >has much of anything to do with conspiracy theories, despite your >fanciful thinking. Does denying reality truly make you happy? > >> We're actually fairly close neighbors. Someday I'd like to meet > >Eh? We might both be on the same side of the Mason-Dixon line, but >you're in a different state... not exactly close by. Alas, we're not >close enough neighbors for a nice neighborly feud... dang. ;-) > >> you. Not to argue your point of view, but just to try to understand >> it. > >Here's the key to understanding what I've written: Try thinking for >yourself----that's what you have a useable brain (it must be somewhat >functional, as you appear to have sense enough to like DEC equipment >:-)) for, and you may begin to understand not only my way of thinking, >but the way of thinking of the many other individuals on this >list---who are capable of independent thought, whether or not they >share any of my views. I don't claim to always be 100-percent >correct, although I can at least say that I think for myself, and I >try not to be a pawn of the propaganda pushers on the right or left. > >-- >Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: >All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & >rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such >http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 20 07:39:27 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Using non-sun mice on a sparc? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030220194833.00fdcf90@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030220084101.0f3f6cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:48 PM 2/20/03 +1000, you wrote: >I'm trying to get Sparcstation 1 up and running with Redhat Linux, but I >don't have any sun mice. > >I noticed as the install CD boots it looks for a mouse-systems mouse. Yes, it's looking for an optical mouse. I believe all the SUN optical mice were made by Mouse Systems. I >have some other workstation mice around here somewhere, and I think at >least some of them were marked mouse-systems. Has anyone managed adapt any >other mice for use on a Sparc? > >I know there are some commercial sun to ps/2 adapter, but $75 is a bit much >to spend on an adapter for a $5 computer. Have you looked for an original mouse on E-bay? They show up frequently and sometimes sell very cheap. That's probably the easiest and least troublesome way of getting a working mouse. FWIW I have a mechanical SUN mouse on E-bay right now. I'm not sure if it will work on the SparkStation 1 but I don't think it will. (It uses a PS/2 type connector with only three pins). But there are plenty of websites on the net that list SUN parts and will tell you if it will work and/or the part number for the correct mouse for your SS 1. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 20 08:33:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: TRS DOS-Plus? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030220093555.47b70f3e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have a copy of DOS-Plus for the TRS model 4 that they can send me? I picked up a 4 last weekend with no SW or docs and I already have DOS-Plus SW and manuals for the model 1. Joe From rborsuk at colourfull.com Thu Feb 20 08:51:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: TRS DOS-Plus? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030220093555.47b70f3e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <421E1F98-44E2-11D7-B7E2-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> I don't have DOS-Plus but I do have TRS DOS Version 6 for the Model 4. Your more then welcome to a copy of it. Rob On Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 09:35 AM, Joe wrote: > Does anyone have a copy of DOS-Plus for the TRS model 4 that they > can send me? I picked up a 4 last weekend with no SW or docs and I > already have DOS-Plus SW and manuals for the model 1. > > Joe > > Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From drido at optushome.com.au Thu Feb 20 09:04:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Using non-sun mice on a sparc? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030220084101.0f3f6cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.3.32.20030220194833.00fdcf90@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030221015432.01003f90@mail.optushome.com.au> > Have you looked for an original mouse on E-bay? They show up frequently and sometimes sell very cheap. That's probably the >easiest and least troublesome way of getting a working mouse. > > FWIW I have a mechanical SUN mouse on E-bay right now. I'm not sure if it will work on the SparkStation 1 but I don't >think it will. (It uses a PS/2 type connector with only three pins). But there are plenty of websites on the net that list >SUN parts and will tell you if it will work and/or the part number for the correct mouse for your SS 1. According to the pinout, the mouse only uses 3 pins (vcc, data, gnd) so it would probably work. I've avoided buying off ebay so far as I am in .au, a cheap mouse isn't so cheap after currency conversion and shipping is taken into account. I one shows up locally I'll grab it. Even so, I'd like to put trackball on the sparc if I end up spending any serious time on it. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 20 10:01:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Using non-sun mice on a sparc? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030221015432.01003f90@mail.optushome.com.au> References: <3.0.6.16.20030220084101.0f3f6cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.3.32.20030220194833.00fdcf90@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030220110412.130f773e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:54 AM 2/21/03 +1000, you wrote: >> Have you looked for an original mouse on E-bay? They show up frequently >and sometimes sell very cheap. That's probably the >easiest and least >troublesome way of getting a working mouse. >> >> FWIW I have a mechanical SUN mouse on E-bay right now. I'm not sure if >it will work on the SparkStation 1 but I don't >think it will. (It uses a >PS/2 type connector with only three pins). But there are plenty of websites >on the net that list >SUN parts and will tell you if it will work and/or >the part number for the correct mouse for your SS 1. > >According to the pinout, the mouse only uses 3 pins (vcc, data, gnd) so it >would probably work. I've avoided buying off ebay so far as I am in .au, a >cheap mouse isn't so cheap after currency conversion and shipping is taken >into account. I one shows up locally I'll grab it. Even so, I'd like to >put trackball on the sparc if I end up spending any serious time on it. They made trackballs for some of the SUNs. A friend of mine has one. But I know that they're hard to find. Take a look at . If that looks like the right mouse let me know and I'll send you one for the cost of postage. Global Priority mail runs about $8 and it will be there in less than a week. Joe From chpap at ics.forth.gr Thu Feb 20 10:48:00 2003 From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: rqdx1 standalone format Message-ID: I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a RQDX1 controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to installing BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone version of zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be downloaded directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a version of zrqb or something similar? From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 20 10:59:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Victor Computer anyone? In-Reply-To: <3E547F2A.15745.325BC7A7@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > We had several Victor 9000's. They ran CP/M and a proprietary MS-DOS. They > > > had built-in codec. They actually predated the IBM PC back in 1980. They > > > WHEN did the Victor 9000 come out? > > I doubt that it was available in 1980, and certainly NOT with MS-DOS, nor > > CP/M-86. > > It was CP/M-86 in the beginning, but they adopted MS-DOS quite > fast. Still, at least for some time, CP/M was the mostly used OS. > (and beeing serious, MS-DOS 1.0 didn't offer any advantage after > all. It's my recollection (from past discussions) that the Victor 9000 came out before the PC (earlier in the year in 1981) and, as Hans states, MS DOS was adapted to it after the fact. It did not end up being PC compatible, but MS-DOS compatible. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Feb 20 11:17:00 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Using non-sun mice on a sparc? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030220084101.0f3f6cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.3.32.20030220194833.00fdcf90@mail.optushome.com.au> <3.0.6.16.20030220084101.0f3f6cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030220171323.GH2400987@uiuc.edu> Joe said: > > FWIW I have a mechanical SUN mouse on E-bay right now. I'm not sure if it > will work on the SparkStation 1 but I don't think it will. (It uses a > PS/2 type connector with only three pins). But there are plenty of > websites on the net that list SUN parts and will tell you if it will work > and/or the part number for the correct mouse for your SS 1. It will work. Any of the 3-pin sun mice will work on any sun that takes the old-style (not the new USB) sun keyboard. - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Thu Feb 20 11:42:00 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: HP 85 part needed Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone have an extra clear plastic paper tearer they could part with? (Sits on top by the printer cover) Thanks, RH From dmabry at mich.com Thu Feb 20 11:58:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: TRS DOS-Plus? References: <3.0.6.16.20030220093555.47b70f3e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E55164A.50101@mich.com> Yes. Someone does. (Sorry, Joe. Just had to do that! ;-) Joe wrote: > Does anyone have a copy of DOS-Plus for the TRS model 4 that they can send me? I picked up a 4 last weekend with no SW or docs and I already have DOS-Plus SW and manuals for the model 1. > > Joe > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 20 11:59:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: large disk platters? Message-ID: <20030220175518.78171.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> I just randomly remembered the other day that when I was at uni one of the computing lecturers one day rolled out an enormous disk platter to demonstrate how hard disk technology has changed over the years. The platter was pretty huge - around 1m in diameter. Any ideas as to what system it may have come from? Im just curious really - I've not seen much really old hardware up close, but the impression I got from the pictures I've seen is that drive technology didn't typically use platters *that* large. (and hell, this beats talking about the war :) cheers Jules Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From fernande at internet1.net Thu Feb 20 12:17:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030220083042.3b8f473e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <200302180700.h1I70MnZ014872@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3.0.6.16.20030220083042.3b8f473e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E55194E.1020809@internet1.net> Joe wrote: > Yikes! We're back in the 16th century! When do the witch trials begin? > > I never heard a word of this in the US news reports. Just goes to show how controlled our news really is. It makes you wonder what else we're not being told! > > Joe Our news isn't controlled! Not in the sense you seem to be conveying. Sure all the news companies control what goes into there product, but any company does that! It probably wasn't in the news because the news companies didn't consider it news worthy, since the "news" is coming from two potentially "whack job" organizations.... at least "whack job" from a liberal new media perspective. I don't know much about either organization, but I doubt the National Reform Association really wants to stone people. In fact here is another article: http://www.natreformassn.org/pr/2002UfSeinpr.html This country was founded by Christians. They may have had some odd customs, and they may have made some things "law" that were really tradition, but thats no reason to reject everything "religious", such as the principles that this nation was founded on. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Feb 20 12:49:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: DosPlus for the Model IV In-Reply-To: <20030220165900.19859.18481.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030220184546.34184.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> > Does anyone have a copy of DOS-Plus for the TRS > model 4 that they can send me? I picked up a 4 last > weekend with no SW or docs and I already have > DOS-Plus SW and manuals for the model 1. > > Joe Joe, I don't have DosPlus for the Model IV that I know of (I might, somewhere..). But, I can recommend highly Multidos for the Model IV. I don't have the link handy, but if you search for it, you can find it. It's still availble for purchase in the $30.00 range last time I checked, and it is an Alternate OS for the TRS-80 that incorporates a lot of the strong points of DosPlus, including 80 Column support while in non CP/M mode. It's a nice OS, and the DISK BASIC is faster and smaller and more feature rich than most of the other ones available for the TRS-80. I remember porting my Copy of Connection-80 over to it (we renamed our custom version, Nybbles-80), and it was MUCH faster under Multidos than under Newdos/80, TRS-DOS or DosPlus, and I was able to take advantage of several MultiBASIC features to make it nicer... Boy, those were the days. I'm on the lookout for an LNW-80 Computer that works to set up a system again. I'm going to keep watch in April at the Trenton Computer Festival for a Model IV or Model III in the Flea Market. Regards, Al From jplist at kiwigeek.com Thu Feb 20 12:49:52 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E55194E.1020809@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Our news isn't controlled! Not in the sense you seem to be conveying. > Sure all the news companies control what goes into there product, but > any company does that! It probably wasn't in the news because the news I'd have to disagree with that Chad; A few weeks ago a US aircraft made a forced landing in Australia and ended up overshooting the runway, coming to rest in some poor schmucks backyard. The entire cul de sac became off limits to those people who lived there because of some_thing_ on the aircraft that was top secret. It was well splashed across Aussie and New Zealand news. It never made it to CNN or MSNBC. Or perhaps its okay they were relocated because it was in _another_ country? JP From grg2 at attbi.com Thu Feb 20 12:52:00 2003 From: grg2 at attbi.com (George R. Gonzalez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: large disk platetrs? Message-ID: <001701c2d910$aefa7970$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> The original IBM RAMAC disk platters were several feet across: "The 350 Disk File consisted of a stack of fifty 24" discs that can be seen to the left of the operator in the above picture. The capacity of the entire disk file was 5 million 7-bit characters, which works out to about 4.4 MB in modern parlance. This is about the same capacity as the first personal computer hard drives that appeared in the early 1980's, but was an enormous capacity for 1956. IBM leased the 350 Disk File for a $35,000 annual fee." The Control Data 808 disk drive also used platters that were at least thet large. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Feb 20 13:29:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Message-ID: >It never made it to CNN or MSNBC. MSNBC's web site also altered a story the other day regarding Osama bin Ladin and Iraq. The first release made mention that bin Ladin was calling his people to kill Hussein. Then, when the US held a press briefing on the same topic, and tried to make it sound as if bin Ladin was in cahoots with Hussein, MSNBC suddenly altered their story, removing the reference. No explination to the change. Could have been an error, could have been an oversite, could have been a request by someone... could have been anything. Point is, the story took a change to reflect the US governments desired position on the topic, and they just pretened it had always been that way. Humm... does Winston Smith work for MSNBC? -chris From allain at panix.com Thu Feb 20 13:49:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: large disk platetrs? References: <001701c2d910$aefa7970$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> Message-ID: <06f001c2d918$a02643e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > ...1956. IBM leased the 350 Disk File for a $35,000... Moore's law is a pretty good predictor of many things. $7K/Month-MegaByte in 1956 works out to $2/Month-TeraByte today so its not too far off, if it is off at all. > the impression I got from the pictures I've seen is that > drive technology didn't typically use platters *that* large. 14" was popular 1970-1980, so what about before it? And don't forget that mainframes were just always in a lerger class. I have a salvaged platter (with spindle) here about 26.3" across. Darned if I know from whence it cometh. Anybody? John A. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Feb 20 13:56:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: large disk platetrs? References: <001701c2d910$aefa7970$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> <06f001c2d918$a02643e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3E553141.2070603@jetnet.ab.ca> John Allain wrote: >>...1956. IBM leased the 350 Disk File for a $35,000... > > > Moore's law is a pretty good predictor of many things. > $7K/Month-MegaByte in 1956 works out to $2/Month-TeraByte > today so its not too far off, if it is off at all. Did you take into acount the $ has dropped in value. > 14" was popular 1970-1980, so what about before it? > And don't forget that mainframes were just always in a lerger > class.\ Lets not forget the size of cables connecting them together. :) From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 20 14:19:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <00ab01c2d889$fcdf3180$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <3E521900.9070.9FC879F@localhost> <4441.4.20.168.218.1045687839.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <00ab01c2d889$fcdf3180$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1983.4.20.168.204.1045772151.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote about (binary) data transfer by modem: >> At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that could do this, John Allain wrote: > Some more date/a: > ""the first model of the first commercial modem," a box in which a phone > handset could be placed, allowing a computer to say "beep beep" to > another over long distances. Lee was almost right. He actually had the > second model of the "magnetic/acoustic coupler," manufactured for > Tymshare, Inc. by Climet Instruments about 1966" > -- > http://membres.inforoots.org/dguardiola/Lee_Felsenstein/CMP-mails.htm The Bell 103A modem was introduced in 1962. I suspect that it was the first commercial modem. The date that's harder to place is when the 103A was first used for computer-to-computer data transfer, as opposed to teletype-to-teletype or teletype-to-computer communication. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Feb 20 14:41:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: large disk platters? References: <20030220175518.78171.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E553C67.1050705@gifford.co.uk> Jules Richardson wrote: > I just randomly remembered the other day that when I was at uni one of the > computing lecturers one day rolled out an enormous disk platter to demonstrate > how hard disk technology has changed over the years. > > The platter was pretty huge - around 1m in diameter. Any ideas as to what > system it may have come from? We had some Burroughs head-per-track drives that one of the lecturers had hooked up to a Modular One computer. The Burroughs disks were about that sisze, and stored (I think) 5Mbytes. The lecturer's OS on the Modular One used the drives for virtual memory. Oh, this was at Westfield College, University of London in the very late 1970s. The system was called MOSAICS, for Modular One Segmented Architecture Interactive Computer System. Note the inclusion of "interactive", which was novel at the time. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Feb 20 14:45:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS Message-ID: But note that the Climet claim is qualified by "a box in which a phone handset could be placed". How were the Bell modems interfaced? -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith [mailto:eric@brouhaha.com] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:16 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: allain@panix.com Subject: Re: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS I wrote about (binary) data transfer by modem: >> At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that could do this, John Allain wrote: > Some more date/a: > ""the first model of the first commercial modem," a box in which a phone > handset could be placed, allowing a computer to say "beep beep" to > another over long distances. Lee was almost right. He actually had the > second model of the "magnetic/acoustic coupler," manufactured for > Tymshare, Inc. by Climet Instruments about 1966" > -- > http://membres.inforoots.org/dguardiola/Lee_Felsenstein/CMP-mails.htm The Bell 103A modem was introduced in 1962. I suspect that it was the first commercial modem. The date that's harder to place is when the 103A was first used for computer-to-computer data transfer, as opposed to teletype-to-teletype or teletype-to-computer communication. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 20 14:57:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: TRS DOS-Plus? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030220093555.47b70f3e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Feb 20, 3 09:35:55 am Message-ID: > Does anyone have a copy of DOS-Plus for the TRS model 4 that they > can send me? I picked up a 4 last weekend with no SW or docs and I > already have DOS-Plus SW and manuals for the model 1. > Does it even exist? I would assume the Model 3 version of DOS+ would boot on the M4, but in 'model 3 mode' (64*16 display, 48K RAM, etc). But there were frw, if any, M4-specific versions of the 'other' OSes (other than TRS-DOS that is). The normal OS for the M4 is TRS-DOS 6 / LDOS 6/ LS-DOS 6 (all really the same thing). This OS will give you all the extra facilities of the M4. You can download disk images from Tim Mann's site (or you used to be able to), but getting them onto physical disks might be non-trivial for you. I think the manuals are avaiable from the same site. -tony From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 20 15:45:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <3E55194E.1020809@internet1.net> Message-ID: <1443.4.20.168.204.1045777333.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I'd have to disagree with that Chad; > A few weeks ago a US aircraft made a forced landing in Australia and > ended up overshooting the runway, coming to rest in some poor schmucks > backyard. The entire cul de sac became off limits to those people who > lived there because of some_thing_ on the aircraft that was top secret. > It was well splashed across Aussie and New Zealand news. Dunno about Australian law, but if that happened to me here in the U.S., I'd sue the government for violating my 4th Amendment right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizeure. I don't have a problem with them coming onto my property to reclaim their aircraft (though I'd fully expect to be compensated for damages), but the government doesn't have any constitutionally-granted power to evict me from my property (effectively a seizure) just because they've been careless and allowed top secret material to fall there. Of course, I'd probably lose the case. It's been said that "national security" is the root key of the U.S. Constitution. The courts have routinely allowed national security to trump rights guaranteed to the people by the constitution, despite there being no constitutional basis for it. On the other hand, if they were nice about it, and asked me if I would please agree to move into a nice hotel for a few days at their expense, and offered reasonable compensation for my trouble, I'd be fairly likely to agree to it. From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Feb 20 16:08:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:03 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! References: Message-ID: <3E555100.9050308@eoni.com> "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." chris wrote: >>It never made it to CNN or MSNBC. > > > MSNBC's web site also altered a story the other day regarding Osama bin > Ladin and Iraq. The first release made mention that bin Ladin was calling > his people to kill Hussein. Then, when the US held a press briefing on > the same topic, and tried to make it sound as if bin Ladin was in cahoots > with Hussein, MSNBC suddenly altered their story, removing the reference. > > No explination to the change. Could have been an error, could have been > an oversite, could have been a request by someone... could have been > anything. Point is, the story took a change to reflect the US governments > desired position on the topic, and they just pretened it had always been > that way. > > Humm... does Winston Smith work for MSNBC? > > -chris > > > . From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Feb 20 16:15:01 2003 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: DEC RC25 Drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E5552AA.3020307@arrl.net> Owen Robertson wrote: > How do you tell if there's a cartridge in there or not? I haven't powered > them up yet. > You will find a pinhole in the lower right section of faceplate. With some deft manipulation of a straightened paper clip you should be able to locate a lever which will release the front door. One of the 2 RC25's I salvaged a few years back did have a pack in place. Unfortunately, both drives were DOA. -nick o houston, TX From cmurray at eagle.ca Thu Feb 20 16:31:00 2003 From: cmurray at eagle.ca (Murray McCullough) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: large disk platters? References: <20030220180001.20389.92021.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E55538A.D73AD064@eagle.ca> Hi Jules, To my knowledge the largest hard drive platter was 24". IBM the inventor may have produced an experimental platter of ~1 m as a demonstration project to management and maybe these platters were 'sold' or distributed to IBM employees? Murray-- cctalk-request@classiccmp.org wrote: > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to > cctalk@classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctalk-request@classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:55:18 +0000 (GMT) > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?= > > Subject: large disk platters? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > I just randomly remembered the other day that when I was at uni one of the > computing lecturers one day rolled out an enormous disk platter to demonstrate > how hard disk technology has changed over the years. > > The platter was pretty huge - around 1m in diameter. Any ideas as to what > system it may have come from? > > Im just curious really - I've not seen much really old hardware up close, but > the impression I got from the pictures I've seen is that drive technology > didn't typically use platters *that* large. > > (and hell, this beats talking about the war :) > > cheers > > Jules > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > End of cctalk Digest From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 20 16:43:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: TRS DOS-Plus? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > The normal OS for the M4 is TRS-DOS 6 / LDOS 6/ LS-DOS 6 (all really the But the Model 4 introduced a new concept of "Normal" that Tandy had previously been in denial of; they sold CP/M 3.0 ("CP/M PLUS") for the Model 4. (There was CP/M available for the Model 2/12/16 (such as Pickles and Trout), and there were numerous CP/M implementations for the Model 1 and 3, consisting either of relocated CP/M (such as FMG 1.4), or hardware mods (such as Parasitic Engineering, Omicron, Montezuma Micro, Hurricane Labs, etc.) From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 20 16:55:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: large disk platters? In-Reply-To: <3E55538A.D73AD064@eagle.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Murray McCullough wrote: > Hi Jules, > To my knowledge the largest hard drive platter was 24". IBM the inventor may have produced > an experimental platter of ~1 m as a demonstration project to management and maybe these platters > were 'sold' or distributed to IBM employees? We have a damaged platter hanging on the wall here. Until I climbed on the table and measured it, it sure LOOKED a lot bigger than 24". I've been told by unreliable sources that it came from an IBM 1620 CARET ("Can't Add, Doesn't Even Try"), and that it held 100K. Anybody know what I can look for to confirm or refute? From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 20 17:11:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: large disk platters? In-Reply-To: <3E553C67.1050705@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, John Honniball wrote: > had hooked up to a Modular One computer. The Burroughs disks were about > that sisze, and stored (I think) 5Mbytes. The lecturer's OS on the > Modular One used the drives for virtual memory. Oh, this was at > Westfield College, University of London in the very late 1970s. The > system was called MOSAICS, for Modular One Segmented Architecture > Interactive Computer System. Note the inclusion of "interactive", which > was novel at the time. It was probably a pretentious addition just so they could get the MOSAICS acronym to work ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From acme at ao.net Thu Feb 20 17:15:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: TRS DOS-Plus? Message-ID: <200302202311.SAA11625@eola.ao.net> Hey Joe (and listmembers) -- You and I discussed this on the phone today, but just for the general edification of the listmembers: If you need *any* kind of software for TRS-80s, check out www.trs-80.com. All of the major OSes are there, as well as manuals, emulators, etc. Later -- Glen 0/0 > Does anyone have a copy of DOS-Plus for the TRS model 4 that they can send > ? I picked up a 4 last weekend with no SW or docs and I already have DOS-Plus > and manuals for the model 1. > > Joe From allain at panix.com Thu Feb 20 17:23:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Gone fishin' (re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable) References: <040b01c2cd55$d228d200$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <1532.4.20.168.139.1044479242.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <01d801c2cd8a$cdb4bbf0$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <003a01c2d936$84f36440$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Bob Schaefer contributed this, on 05-Feb-2003 9:52 PM: > I came across http://www.quail.com/NACords/index.html a few days ago. > They seem to have the cords I need, both the C15 (notched) and C19 > (horizontal prongs). I haven't called then yet to check proces and > quantities, but I'm taking next week off to have a baby, so I expect to > have lots of Copious Spare Time in which to take care of things. :) I just called these people to get a cable for a good price and almost wound up buying one for $25 shipped. Feeling a bit lucky I tried a kind of sales pitch on their ordersperson ('You have to understand, these people are hobbyists'. 'Some of my friends don't have jobs'. 'The computers themselves were picked up free... etc.), and, after the wrangling I got an order of qty 6 for less than $9/ea. If anybody wants one, I can sell individual cords for this price no problem. Fate: Having said this, someone on the list will now admit that they have a bunch for _$5.00_... . John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 20 17:25:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Victor Computer anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > We had several Victor 9000's. They ran CP/M and a proprietary MS-DOS. They > > > > had built-in codec. They actually predated the IBM PC back in 1980. They > > > WHEN did the Victor 9000 come out? > > > I doubt that it was available in 1980, and certainly NOT with MS-DOS, nor > > > CP/M-86. > It's my recollection (from past discussions) that the Victor 9000 came out > before the PC (earlier in the year in 1981) and, as Hans states, MS DOS > was adapted to it after the fact. It did not end up being PC compatible, > but MS-DOS compatible. WHEN did the Victor 9000 (Sirius) come out? A Quick Google search of "CP/M-86 history Victor 9000" turns up a lot of Commodore history sites that say that the Vioctor was released "SOMETIME" in 1982. Is there ANY documentation anywhere of when it actually came out? (We do know that the PC was announced in August 1981) From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Feb 20 17:26:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: TRS DOS-Plus? References: <200302202311.SAA11625@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <005b01c2d936$7d0f20c0$0400fea9@game> Thats a nice site, anything like that out there for apple IIgs? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 6:11 PM Subject: Re: TRS DOS-Plus? > Hey Joe (and listmembers) -- > > You and I discussed this on the phone today, but just for the general > edification of the listmembers: > > If you need *any* kind of software for TRS-80s, check out www.trs-80.com. > > All of the major OSes are there, as well as manuals, emulators, etc. > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 > > > Does anyone have a copy of DOS-Plus for the TRS model 4 that they can send > > ? I picked up a 4 last weekend with no SW or docs and I already have DOS-Plus > > and manuals for the model 1. > > > > Joe From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 20 17:29:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: large disk platters? In-Reply-To: <3E55538A.D73AD064@eagle.ca> References: <20030220180001.20389.92021.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <3E55538A.D73AD064@eagle.ca> Message-ID: <2864.4.20.168.204.1045783535.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > To my knowledge the largest hard drive platter was 24". Platters of at least 36" diameter have been made; they were used on ILLIAC IV. However, 14-inch platters and disk packs far outsold all the larger sizes combined. From acme at ao.net Thu Feb 20 18:29:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Fwd: [zx81] ZX81 users meeting in four weeks Message-ID: <200302210026.TAA12688@eola.ao.net> Anyone in Europe (or elsewhere) care to join us? Later -- Glen 0/0 From: Peter Liebert-Adelt To: Glen Goodwin Subject: [zx81] ZX81 users meeting in four weeks Date: 02/20/2003 5:20 PM > Hi ZX81 users > > May be it's a litte bit far away from you, but you should know: > > 7th ZX-TEAM-meeting will take place from friday, 21st of march 2003 at 18.oo > pm) > local time, until sunday 23rd of march 12.00 (noon) in the heart of Germany > in a little village called Dietges, which is loacted near the town of Fulda. > For more informations please mail or vistit our homepage: http://www.zx81.de > > Good by(t)e, "sinclairly" yours > > Peter > > > ----------- ZX81 MAILSERVER INFO ------------------------------------ > To WRITE a new message, send your message to mailto:zx81@jarasoft.net > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a message to mailto:listserv@jarasoft.net > with "unsubscribe zx81" in the SUBJECT of your message. > To SUBSCRIBE send a message to mailto:listserv@jarasoft.net > with "subscribe zx81" in the SUBJECT of your message. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- From acme at ao.net Thu Feb 20 18:31:38 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 Message-ID: <200302210026.TAA12699@eola.ao.net> > OR you can get a copy of MS-DOS 4.00 and patch it to run on the Z-100. Jeez, Joe, now I'm really gagging. MS-DOS on a Z-100? Yuck. Later -- Glen 0/0 From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Feb 20 18:46:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: large disk platetrs? References: <001701c2d910$aefa7970$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> Message-ID: <03e601c2d942$4423c8e0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "George R. Gonzalez" To: Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:48 PM Subject: large disk platetrs? > The original IBM RAMAC disk platters were several feet across: > "The 350 Disk File consisted of a stack of fifty 24" discs that can be seen > to the left of the operator in the above picture. The capacity of the entire > disk file was 5 million 7-bit characters, which works out to about 4.4 MB in > modern parlance. This is about the same capacity as the first personal > computer hard drives that appeared in the early 1980's, but was an enormous > capacity for 1956. IBM leased the 350 Disk File for a $35,000 annual fee." > > The Control Data 808 disk drive also used platters that were at least thet > large. Wow. With something that big, I bet you could see the bits on the media! Bob From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 20 18:57:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 In-Reply-To: <200302210026.TAA12699@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 acme@ao.net wrote: > > OR you can get a copy of MS-DOS 4.00 and patch it to run on the Z-100. > > Jeez, Joe, now I'm really gagging. MS-DOS on a Z-100? Yuck. The Z-100 was intended as a dual OS machine. You had the best (presumably) of both worlds: CP/M and MS-DOS. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 20 19:06:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 In-Reply-To: <200302210026.TAA12699@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030220200818.0f37fc72@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:26 PM 2/20/03 -0500, Glen wrote: >> OR you can get a copy of MS-DOS 4.00 and patch it to run on the Z-100. > >Jeez, Joe, now I'm really gagging. MS-DOS on a Z-100? Yuck. Bitch! Bitch! Bitch! You'd complain if they hung you with a new rope! Joe :-) PS went scrounging this afternoon after I talked to you. I came back with a car FULL of HP 18x o'scope mainframes! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 20 19:18:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 In-Reply-To: References: <200302210026.TAA12699@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030220202039.0f2ff94c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:49 PM 2/20/03 -0800, Sellam wrote: >On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 acme@ao.net wrote: > >> > OR you can get a copy of MS-DOS 4.00 and patch it to run on the Z-100. >> >> Jeez, Joe, now I'm really gagging. MS-DOS on a Z-100? Yuck. > >The Z-100 was intended as a dual OS machine. You had the best >(presumably) of both worlds: CP/M and MS-DOS. You forgot to include CPM-86. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 20 19:26:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: TRS DOS-Plus? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Feb 20, 3 02:40:08 pm Message-ID: > On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > The normal OS for the M4 is TRS-DOS 6 / LDOS 6/ LS-DOS 6 (all really the > > But the Model 4 introduced a new concept of "Normal" that Tandy had > previously been in denial of; they sold CP/M 3.0 ("CP/M PLUS") for the > Model 4. Sure, but why would you want to run that (unless you had some CP/M software you wanted to run) when LDOS is a much nicer OS for hacking about? LDOS supports things like loadable device drivers and true I/O independance (you can open files to character devices, etc). -tony From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Feb 20 19:31:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <3E55194E.1020809@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20030221015406.GC12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe JP Hindin, from writings of Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 12:46:09PM -0600: > On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I'd have to disagree with that Chad; > A few weeks ago a US aircraft made a forced landing in Australia and ended > up overshooting the runway, coming to rest in some poor schmucks backyard. > The entire cul de sac became off limits to those people who lived there Those people should have stayed and, at the very least, chucked raw eggs at the goons who invaded their neighborhood, and steadfastly refused to leave. > because of some_thing_ on the aircraft that was top secret. It was well > splashed across Aussie and New Zealand news. Never saw it on the news over here... not surprising though. > It never made it to CNN or MSNBC. Most interesting... it appears that the CIA spooks have been busy. Didn't see it on Fox news either. > Or perhaps its okay they were relocated because it was in _another_ > country? I'm a U.S. citizen (well, I might not be after the SS, Shrubs Spooks, reads this... they might revoke my citizenship, even though my ancestors came over here several hundred years ago) and I don't think it was ok. The U.S. military had no right to do that, whether overseas or over here... anyone who lands on someone's _private property_ and then has the audacity to order the owners to leave, as well as ordering people living in neighboring properties to leave, their property deserves to be running from lots of buckshot! No one should hold still for something like that. Governments have become too powerful and too arrogant. ...which goes back to what I was saying about 4th of July parades, politicians, tar and feathers. To many politicians are too powerful, too well paid and too arrogant; they need to learn that they're supposed to be servants of the people. Then, when the arrogant SOBs die, entire highways get closed off for their funerals (the same thing happens for cops funerals as well over here - at least in this part of Maryland anyway). It's beginning to appear as though the citizens of the U.S. are the servants of the elected officials and their elite guard. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Feb 20 19:38:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1443.4.20.168.204.1045777333.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3E55194E.1020809@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220202925.00a253f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Eric, Would that fall under the "power of eminent domain" category? http://www.vrgappraisals.com/ http://www.bland.org/appal/eminentdomain.html http://www.howtofightcityhall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21&sid= I remember when they put in a new freeway ramp here, and I knew someone that had to move, whether they wanted to or not, so it could be done. Of course they were paid. Best Regards At 01:42 PM 2/20/03 -0800, you wrote: > > I'd have to disagree with that Chad; > > A few weeks ago a US aircraft made a forced landing in Australia and > > ended up overshooting the runway, coming to rest in some poor schmucks > > backyard. The entire cul de sac became off limits to those people who > > lived there because of some_thing_ on the aircraft that was top secret. > > It was well splashed across Aussie and New Zealand news. > >Dunno about Australian law, but if that happened to me here in the >U.S., I'd sue the government for violating my 4th Amendment right to >be secure against unreasonable search and seizeure. I don't have a >problem with them coming onto my property to reclaim their aircraft >(though I'd fully expect to be compensated for damages), but the >government doesn't have any constitutionally-granted power to evict >me from my property (effectively a seizure) just because they've been >careless and allowed top secret material to fall there. > >Of course, I'd probably lose the case. It's been said that "national >security" is the root key of the U.S. Constitution. The courts have >routinely allowed national security to trump rights guaranteed to the >people by the constitution, despite there being no constitutional >basis for it. > >On the other hand, if they were nice about it, and asked me if I would >please agree to move into a nice hotel for a few days at their expense, >and offered reasonable compensation for my trouble, I'd be fairly likely >to agree to it. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Feb 20 19:43:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220203526.00a12540@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi, I remember in the days after the space shuttle accident, I saw on CNN, that they were displaying how many times faster than the speed of light that the space shuttle was going. Yes, they actually said speed of light. And I was surprised at how long they let it run like that before it was removed, hours at least. Just shows you can't believe everything you read, see on TV, etc. I was also surprised I never heard anyone else mentioning it. Best Regards At 02:25 PM 2/20/03 -0500, you wrote: > >It never made it to CNN or MSNBC. > >MSNBC's web site also altered a story the other day regarding Osama bin >Ladin and Iraq. The first release made mention that bin Ladin was calling >his people to kill Hussein. Then, when the US held a press briefing on >the same topic, and tried to make it sound as if bin Ladin was in cahoots >with Hussein, MSNBC suddenly altered their story, removing the reference. > >No explination to the change. Could have been an error, could have been >an oversite, could have been a request by someone... could have been >anything. Point is, the story took a change to reflect the US governments >desired position on the topic, and they just pretened it had always been >that way. > >Humm... does Winston Smith work for MSNBC? > >-chris > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Feb 20 19:48:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: recommendations on Sbus DAS FDDI? Message-ID: <042d01c2d94b$02383d90$7d00a8c0@george> Any one to avoid? It'll end up in an Axil SS2 clone routing a broadband connection into the FDDI backbone, unless someone can convince me that it's a horrible idea. Thanks! Bob From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 20 19:50:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220202925.00a253f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <3E55194E.1020809@internet1.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030220202925.00a253f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3678.4.20.168.204.1045791971.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Hi Eric, > Would that fall under the "power of eminent domain" category? I don't think so, but if it did, they would have to appraise your property first, and buy it from you. They don't have any legal power or authority to make you vacate your property without due process. Unfortunately, the lack of legal power to do something seldom seems to actually prevent the government from doing it. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Feb 20 20:28:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3678.4.20.168.204.1045791971.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220202925.00a253f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3E55194E.1020809@internet1.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030220202925.00a253f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220211928.00a505e0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Eric, Believe it or not, our neighborhood was a pretty bad one years ago, just because of some of the people living in one house across the street. One time the police came after one of the people that was over there. I was at work, but my sister and her boyfriend were here at the time. The SWAT team came and made them leave the house and were using our front windows to aim from. No shots were ever fired and I didn't even hear about it until I got home from work. If the local police can do it, I would guess the federal government must have some provision that allows them to do what they must, when they must, also. Best Regards At 05:46 PM 2/20/03 -0800, you wrote: > > Hi Eric, > > Would that fall under the "power of eminent domain" category? > >I don't think so, but if it did, they would have to appraise your >property first, and buy it from you. They don't have any legal >power or authority to make you vacate your property without due >process. > >Unfortunately, the lack of legal power to do something seldom >seems to actually prevent the government from doing it. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 20 20:36:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: HELP! MFD Checker II Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030220213828.1077981c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just bought this off of E-bay. Obviously it's some kind of disk drive tester. I opened it up and the entire front panel is hand wired but I also found a commercail circuit board in it. On the board it says "MFD Checker II" "Sony" "Made in Japan". Does anyone know anything about a MFD checker? It looks as though the circuit board was once the major part of another machine and that they took the switches, displays and indicator lights off of it and rerouted them to the front panel. However there are a few things that they didn't put on the front panel; a 80 vs 70 track select (yeah 70 track), a drive select, a 300 vs 600 RPM select and a good number of test points such as the write gate. However on the front panel you can now select 2MHz, 1 MHz, 500kHz, 250kHz, 125kHz or 67.5kHz. Anybody know what that's about? I'm guessing that it controls the bit frequency that's written to the disk and that it's used to test the disk coercivity. On the original board you could only select 1F or 2F. I should add that a 2nd baord as also been added into the case. It's a handwrapped vector board with 20 SSI ICs. I'm sure that it's used to generate and select the extra frequencies and other as yet unknown functions. Anybody care to speculate? Joe From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Feb 20 20:41:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220211928.00a505e0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220202925.00a253f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3E55194E.1020809@internet1.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030220202925.00a253f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030220211928.00a505e0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030221030411.GE12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Mail List, from writings of Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 09:24:30PM -0500: > One time the police came after one of the people that was over there. > I was at work, but my sister and her boyfriend were here at the time. > The SWAT team came and made them leave the house and were > using our front windows to aim from. No shots were ever fired and > I didn't even hear about it until I got home from work. Here in Baltimore County, something like that was in the news a few years ago. The police claimed to need, for strategic purposes, the use of a house in a neighborhood near where a hostage situation (IIRC) was taking place, so they broke in, killed the dog that lived in the house as it was threatening to them (rightfully defending it's owner's property---I don't think the owners were home), and used the house for their work. You can read about it in the archives of the local newspaper. That was a travesty of justice, and the police became the murders; the dog's life---the life of an innocent creature, was of no less value than their own, and they had no right to take it, just because they wanted to break into, and use, someone's private property for the so-called "public good." The government in that case was no less a criminal than the criminal it was trying to apprehend. > If the local police can do it, I would guess the federal government > must have some provision that allows them to do what they must, > when they must, also. It's called bully tactics. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Feb 20 21:18:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) Message-ID: >I'm a U.S. citizen (well, I might not be after the SS, Shrubs Spooks, >reads this... they might revoke my citizenship, even though my >ancestors came over here several hundred years ago) You know, I was just thinking about that myself. What would they do with someone like me, who's ancestors predate the US being here?!? I can get that someone who is a naturalized citizen they can kick back to whatever country they came from... but what are they going to do to me? Kick me back to Virginia? (one of my older ancestors was the given the Virginia colony to run) >The U.S. military had no right to do that, whether >overseas or over here... anyone who lands on someone's _private >property_ and then has the audacity to order the owners to leave, as >well as ordering people living in neighboring properties to leave, I don't know about Australia, but I suspect if you dig thru the laws, there is some exclusion here in the US that does allow for this. I base that on the fact that in the fire service we DO have the right to evict people from an area in the name of safety. For instance, if we have a gas main break, we can go house to house and forcably remove people in the effected area if we feel that their life is in danger. They don't have to consent, and we don't need a court order (although I suspect if we did it without damn good reason, we could probably be sued later). We can also keep custody of the property until we are "finished" with the scene. Here in NJ that is defined as the reasonable amount of time to handle the event and any followup investigation OR until the last EMS person leaves the scene, whichever happens first. -chris From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Feb 20 21:30:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: HELP! MFD Checker II In-Reply-To: Joe's message of "Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:38:28" References: <3.0.6.16.20030220213828.1077981c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200302210307.h1L37Jv6028489@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote: > I just bought this > > off of E-bay. Obviously it's some kind of disk drive tester. I > opened it up and the entire front panel is hand wired but I also > found a commercail circuit board in it. On the board it says "MFD > Checker II" "Sony" "Made in Japan". Does anyone know anything about > a MFD checker? Um, I'm thinking Sony diskette drive part numbers start(ed?) with MFD. Yep, it looks to me like you got yourself a drive tester. That wouldn't get me so excited as to forget to hit return once in a while, but I guess it means you have a new way to play with the stiffy drives in all that HP gear. Congratulations! -Frank McConnell From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Feb 20 21:55:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: HELP! MFD Checker II Message-ID: <150.1c03dbdb.2b86fc2a@aol.com> Just the thing needed to check out those sony drives in the old HP equipment. Congratulations, Joe, you have a floppy drive tester for early Sony 3 1/2 inch floppys. I have a similar hard drive tester. Paxton Astoria, OR From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 20 22:33:04 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 1 Level II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 19 February 2003 22:52 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: TRS80 Model 1 Level II > > So it's a fairly late one. The older version still has the 2 DIP sockets > (filled with 2K chips for the L1 BASIC!) but the L2 upgrade was a PCB > that was stuck to the solder side of the main PCB. It had a ribbon cable > that plugged into one of the ROM sockets (now empty) to pick up power, > data lines, and most of the address lines, and a 4-wire (I think) cable > that was soldered topins of the chips on the mainboard for the extra > address lines. I love upgrades like that, wringing extra functionality out of the kit. Had an Atari 520STfm in bits yesterday and it had been upgraded with a later version of TOS and a memory module that plugged into (well, ONTO actually) both the video shifter and the MMU, then ribbon cables took the lines out to the module itself that sat on top of the shielding between the floppy drive and PSU and allowed you to use standard SIMMs. Excellent :) > L1 machines give a 32*16 mode display of colons if there's no RAM (or if > the RAM DIP shunt is pulled). I don't know if L2 machines do the same. With Z3 pulled I got @9 again (after double checking the ROMs were in place!). I pulled Z71 as well and got @S. Remember, styrofoam eats MOS devices like candy :o) (from the RAM testing section of the tech ref) > The -ve side of the largest capacitor in the PSU section is ground IIRC. Yep, I've just found that bit - 'ground yourself by momentarily touching the right side of C9'. Earlier on there's a voltage test that tests for +5V on the top link of R18 so I can run my probe from that. > > the model III that's still in bits? (mail in your inbox about that) > > Yes, both machines use the same 16K DRAM chips (4116s or equivalent). I'll have to pull them from the III then, of course I haven't powered that one up yet (aside from momentarily) so I don't know if IT has any problems! At least I got fully working life (hardware wise that is) out of my early PAL Amiga 1000 last night so that's one down, 2 to go :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From root at parse.com Thu Feb 20 22:34:28 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Pictures (DEC, calculators, etc) and Questions Message-ID: <200302201811.NAA29409@parse.com> I've put together some pictures of parts of my collections of various things that I figured I'd brag about^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H share with everyone on this list :-) There are pictures of various DEC PDP's, tons of pictures of boards, some antique test equipment, and some antique electronic calculators. My question is, does anyone have schematics for any of the non-DEC equipment? Specifically, GR1683, HP3440/3445, HP9100, and Tektronix 909? If so, please let me know! I'd be happy to host PDFs or GIFs or whatever form they might take... Here are the URLs: PDPs: http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/ Other: http://www.parse.com/~rk/collecting/ Enjoy! Cheers, -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From basicwayne at comcast.net Thu Feb 20 22:35:12 2003 From: basicwayne at comcast.net (wayne van dosen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: c64 parts Message-ID: <000a01c2d937$0c8d2300$57183d44@strl1201.mi.comcast.net> i'm looking for commodore c64 pla chips 9061140-1 & sid chips 6581. wayne From vance at neurotica.com Thu Feb 20 22:35:57 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E55194E.1020809@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > This country was founded by Christians. They may have had some odd > customs, and they may have made some things "law" that were really > tradition, but thats no reason to reject everything "religious", such as > the principles that this nation was founded on. I am quite religious myself. I am not Christian. If you try forcing Christian ideals on me, I will go apeshit. Seriously. Most of the stuff that Christians think are part of all religions simply aren't. I don't force my religion on you. Keep yours out of my affairs. Peace... Sridhar From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 20 22:36:42 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: HELP! MFD Checker II In-Reply-To: <200302210307.h1L37Jv6028489@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20030220213828.1077981c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030220232633.107722de@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:07 PM 2/20/03 -0800, Frank McConnell wrote: >Joe wrote: >> I just bought this >> >> off of E-bay. Obviously it's some kind of disk drive tester. I >> opened it up and the entire front panel is hand wired but I also >> found a commercail circuit board in it. On the board it says "MFD >> Checker II" "Sony" "Made in Japan". Does anyone know anything about >> a MFD checker? > Hi Frank, It's been a while since I've seen you post anything on the list. I wasn't sure that you were still around. >Um, I'm thinking Sony diskette drive part numbers start(ed?) with MFD. Good point. I didn't remember that. Joe > >Yep, it looks to me like you got yourself a drive tester. >That wouldn't get me so excited as to forget to hit return once in >a while, but I guess it means you have a new way to play with >the stiffy drives in all that HP gear. Congratulations! - From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 20 22:37:28 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: HELP! MFD Checker II In-Reply-To: <150.1c03dbdb.2b86fc2a@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030220232140.0ef752ba@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Paxton, Do you have a Sony checker? If so, what's this about *70* track drives? I already have a nice Brikon 723 drive tester made by Brian. I'm not sure if it handles the 600 RPM drives but it does handles 3", 3.5", 5 1/4" and 8" drives! Joe At 10:51 PM 2/20/03 EST, you wrote: >Just the thing needed to check out those sony drives in the old HP equipment. >Congratulations, Joe, you have a floppy drive tester for early Sony 3 1/2 >inch floppys. > >I have a similar hard drive tester. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR From Technoid at 30below.com Thu Feb 20 22:57:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Atari 400 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030217123159.02466b30@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <001d01c2d965$6f1f1ef0$0100a8c0@benchbox> My 400 and 1200xl are running on: Atari Power Supply part number C017945 IP 120v 60hz 50w OP 9vac 31VA This is the one that will run the 400/800/1200xl/1400xl/1020/850/835/810/1050/XF551/820, and other Atari gear. Regards, jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gene Ehrich Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 12:36 PM To: undisclosed_recipients@ehrich.com; cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Atari 400 Power Supply I need a power supply for an Atari 400 computer and have the following to choose from. Does anyone know which if any to use with the 400: Atari Power Supply Model CO 14319 IP 120vac 60hz 18.5w OP 9vac 15.3va Atari Power Supply Part Number C010472 IP 120v 60hz 9w OP 9v dc 500ma Atari Power Supply part number C016804 IP 120v 60hz OP 9vac 31VA Atari Power Supply part number C017945 IP 120v 60hz 50w OP 9vac 31VA Atari Power Supply part number CA14748 IP 120v 60hz 20w OP 15VA Atari Power Supply part number C016353 IP 120v 60hz 11w OP 9v DC 500ma for Atari 2600 Atari Plug In Power Supply - Part Number C061515 IP 120vac 60hz 7.5va OP 9vac 500ma Atari Power Supply part number C018187 IP 120vac 60hz 38va OP9.3vdc at 1.95A From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Feb 20 22:58:11 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: HELP! MFD Checker II Message-ID: <1a0.1137689f.2b870ad5@aol.com> In a message dated 2/20/03 8:35:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > > > Do you have a Sony checker? If so, what's this about *70* track drives? > I already have a nice Brikon 723 drive tester made by Brian. I'm not sure > if it handles the 600 RPM drives but it does handles 3", 3.5", 5 1/4" and > 8" drives! > You are very lucky to get a Sony tester. IIRC the early Sony drives were very nonstandard and there were several different kinds. I am sure the 70 track goes back to the very earliest Sony floppies there are others on the list that can address this better than I. I can't remember who made the Hard drive tester that I have. I got several from Intel when they were getting rid of the 310 stuff. It covered most of the early MFM hard drives and was built in a small blue box about 12" square. A standalone process selected from a menu of drives, plug in the drive, after a while a report was printed out. The name started with an A and was three letters. IIRC. It is close to the surface in the storage locker so I will note when I get there. You got a nice find. Hang on to it. Paxton Astoria, OR From msspc at rev.net Thu Feb 20 22:59:00 2003 From: msspc at rev.net (Clayton Frank Helvey, President) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: DosPlus for the Model IV In-Reply-To: Al Hartman "Re: DosPlus for the Model IV" (Feb 20, 10:45am) References: <20030220184546.34184.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1030220235141.ZM17734@msspc> Hey guys! You may want to check out the Computer News 80 website at www.cnpublishing.com for information on software for the TRS80, as well as TRS80 Model 4s for sale etc. -- Frank On Feb 20, 10:45am, Al Hartman wrote: > Subject: Re: DosPlus for the Model IV > > Does anyone have a copy of DOS-Plus for the TRS > > model 4 that they can send me? I picked up a 4 last > > weekend with no SW or docs and I already have > > DOS-Plus SW and manuals for the model 1. > > > > Joe > > Joe, > > I don't have DosPlus for the Model IV that I know of > (I might, somewhere..). But, I can recommend highly > Multidos for the Model IV. > > I don't have the link handy, but if you search for it, > you can find it. > > It's still availble for purchase in the $30.00 range > last time I checked, and it is an Alternate OS for the > TRS-80 that incorporates a lot of the strong points of > DosPlus, including 80 Column support while in non CP/M > mode. > > It's a nice OS, and the DISK BASIC is faster and > smaller and more feature rich than most of the other > ones available for the TRS-80. > > I remember porting my Copy of Connection-80 over to it > (we renamed our custom version, Nybbles-80), and it > was MUCH faster under Multidos than under Newdos/80, > TRS-DOS or DosPlus, and I was able to take advantage > of several MultiBASIC features to make it nicer... > > Boy, those were the days. > > I'm on the lookout for an LNW-80 Computer that works > to set up a system again. I'm going to keep watch in > April at the Trenton Computer Festival for a Model IV > or Model III in the Flea Market. > > Regards, > Al > >-- End of excerpt from Al Hartman -- ==== M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C. ==== Clayton Frank Helvey President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 United States of America Phone 540.947.5364 =================================================================== From allain at panix.com Thu Feb 20 23:06:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: HELP! MFD Checker II References: <3.0.6.16.20030220213828.1077981c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030220232633.107722de@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <009b01c2d966$713e6000$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> Um, I'm thinking Sony diskette drive part >> numbers start(ed?) with MFD. MFD = Micro Floppydisk as seen on actual Sony 3.5" media. John A. From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Feb 20 23:12:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E55194E.1020809@internet1.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030220083042.3b8f473e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <200302180700.h1I70MnZ014872@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3.0.6.16.20030220083042.3b8f473e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030220234724.024b9d90@mail.30below.com> Please, all... forgive me... At 13:07 02/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> Yikes! We're back in the 16th century![snip] >> Joe > >Our news isn't controlled! Maybe I wouldn't respond to this without a 6-pack within... but... Well... it's not worth a response, even with a 6-pack... :-/ >This country was founded by Christians. Founded? Stolen, more like. Yo, dude... head up north -- I'm guessing about 350 miles -- and meet some of the folks that this country was stolen *from*. And yes, I am of both German and "American Indian/Aboriginal North-American/folks that were here 40Kyears before the rest of y'all" [[ however you wanna put it...]] so I've learned to walk a mile in someone else's moccasins... -- Granted, they're frelling up their own nation[s] quite well, but I must say that they had *good* teachers... :-/ > They may have had some odd customs, and they may have made some things > "law" that were really tradition, but thats no reason to reject > everything "religious", such as the principles that this nation was founded on. You mean, citing war on others despite (or because of) the #1 commandment of most [all?] Christian faiths: "Thou shalt not kill." Despite 2000 years of trying, Christianity (in all it's flavors) is still not the dominant faith of this planet... Any chance there's a reason for that? So much for the witch trials... back to the Crusades!!! >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA [1] Roger "Merch" Merchberger [[Again, Forgive me.]] -- See next post for something on-topic (for a change...) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= [1] Erm, yea... Born and raised... but at least I know that "North of the Mackinac[2] Bridge" ain't Canada... Honestly, I'm not saying that you think that, but I met *many* folks born & raised in the lower half of Michigan that didn't know better, and tried telling me such... :-/ [2] And no... Eudora doesn't know the correct spelling for Mackinac, either... From fernande at internet1.net Thu Feb 20 23:13:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E55B2EC.2020008@internet1.net> JP Hindin wrote: > I'd have to disagree with that Chad; > A few weeks ago a US aircraft made a forced landing in Australia and ended > up overshooting the runway, coming to rest in some poor schmucks backyard. > The entire cul de sac became off limits to those people who lived there > because of some_thing_ on the aircraft that was top secret. It was well > splashed across Aussie and New Zealand news > > It never made it to CNN or MSNBC. > Or perhaps its okay they were relocated because it was in _another_ > country? That doesn't mean that our government was responsible for it not being on our news. I don't know the top secret contents of that plane. Maybe it was done with good reason. I'm sure the Aussie govt. was involved, too. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Feb 20 23:16:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Trivia Question Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> With my contemplation of purchasing a new Sony Picturebook, I was wondering: What was the first portable computer that weighed less than 1Kg? [[I'm assuming that it'd be older than 10 years, so it should be ontopic...]] Any pointers appreciated! :-) Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From Technoid at 30below.com Thu Feb 20 23:31:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <001e01c2d96a$25188580$0100a8c0@benchbox> I have a TI-74S handheld. 8kram, 16?k rom with internal Basic. It even has a numberpad. I had a real oldie of a RadioShack handheld years ago which was quite similar to the TI. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Roger Merchberger Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 12:09 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Trivia Question With my contemplation of purchasing a new Sony Picturebook, I was wondering: What was the first portable computer that weighed less than 1Kg? [[I'm assuming that it'd be older than 10 years, so it should be ontopic...]] Any pointers appreciated! :-) Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From fernande at internet1.net Thu Feb 20 23:41:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030220234724.024b9d90@mail.30below.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030220083042.3b8f473e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <200302180700.h1I70MnZ014872@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3E51A3E6.19163.23CCE50@localhost> <5.1.1.6.2.20030218212237.00a39c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3.0.6.16.20030220083042.3b8f473e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030220234724.024b9d90@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3E55B978.8070008@internet1.net> Roger Merchberger wrote: >> Our news isn't controlled! > > > Maybe I wouldn't respond to this without a 6-pack within... but... > Well... it's not worth a response, even with a 6-pack... :-/ You honestly believe that the governmant controls what CNN, MSNBC, FOX, etc. put into there news casts? > >> This country was founded by Christians. > > > Founded? Stolen, more like. Yo, dude... head up north -- I'm guessing > about 350 miles -- and meet some of the folks that this country was > stolen *from*. The Canadians??? I've heard people say that we stole it from the Indians, but never the Canadians. > > And yes, I am of both German and "American Indian/Aboriginal > North-American/folks that were here 40Kyears before the rest of y'all" > [[ however you wanna put it...]] so I've learned to walk a mile in > someone else's moccasins... Yes, we were not fair with the Indians, beaking treaties and so on, but just because a person is born in the USA, doesn't make him a Christian. A person can even go to church and not really be a Christain. Your lumping a lot of people into "Christain", that you shouldn't be, just becasue they may hold some Christian values, and don't profess to be something else, like Muslim, Hindu, or Whatever. > You mean, citing war on others despite (or because of) the #1 > commandment of most [all?] Christian faiths: "Thou shalt not kill." > Despite 2000 years of trying, Christianity (in all it's flavors) is > still not the dominant faith of this planet... Any chance there's a > reason for that > > So much for the witch trials... back to the Crusades!!! The Crusades were filled with people looking for self gain. They may have done what they did in the name of the Lord, but it was still for self gain, from what I have read. I do recall hearing that the first one was somewhat legit, but it's been a long time since I've studied that. > [1] Erm, yea... Born and raised... but at least I know that "North of > the Mackinac[2] Bridge" ain't Canada... Honestly, I'm not saying that > you think that, but I met *many* folks born & raised in the lower half > of Michigan that didn't know better, and tried telling me such... :-/ Maybe they were new here? I never really liked Pastys Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jwstephens at cox.net Thu Feb 20 23:42:00 2003 From: jwstephens at cox.net (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Trivia Question References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3E55BB0A.155716E2@cox.net> dg one for ms dos would be pretty early and in that range kaypro 2000 for cpm was a "laptop" type computer, but was metal housed and had lead acid battery, so might stress your weight limit. Roger Merchberger wrote: > With my contemplation of purchasing a new Sony Picturebook, I was wondering: > > What was the first portable computer that weighed less than 1Kg? > [[I'm assuming that it'd be older than 10 years, so it should be ontopic...]] > Any pointers appreciated! :-) > > Thanks, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger From drido at optushome.com.au Thu Feb 20 23:45:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Using non-sun mice on a sparc? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030220110412.130f773e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.3.32.20030221015432.01003f90@mail.optushome.com.au> <3.0.6.16.20030220084101.0f3f6cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.3.32.20030220194833.00fdcf90@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030221163557.0102fca0@mail.optushome.com.au> >They made trackballs for some of the SUNs. A friend of mine has one. But I know that they're hard to find. I figured it would probably be quicker/cheaper to adapt an existing trackball than find the genuine article... even if I have to sacrifice a real sun mouse to do so (ie, just connect the leds/photodiodes in the trackball to the sun mouse pcb). Though doing this isn't a priority for me right now. I'll get the system up first, then decide if a trackball will be worth doing. > Take a look at . If that looks like the right mouse let me know and I'll send you one for the cost of postage. Global Priority mail runs about $8 and it will be there in less than a week. That's the right one, thanks for the offer. I'll email you off list with details. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 20 23:57:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: Need Help: NEC PowerMate Portable SX Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030221005956.0f3739b8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up one of these today and it had multiple problems but I finally got it to boot but so far I can't get a display on the built in screen. I'm not sure but I'm wondering if the switch settings on it are correct. Does anyone have the switch settings for one of these? Joe From drido at optushome.com.au Fri Feb 21 00:01:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:04 2005 Subject: HELP! MFD Checker II In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030220213828.1077981c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030221165056.01031b28@mail.optushome.com.au> At 09:38 PM 2/20/03, you wrote: > I just bought this off of E-bay. Obviously it's some kind of disk drive tester. I opened it up and the entire front panel is hand wired but I also found a commercail circuit board in it. On the board it says "MFD Checker II" "Sony" "Made in Japan". Does anyone know anything about a MFD checker? It looks as though the circuit board was once the major part of another machine and that they took the switches, displays and indicator lights off of it and rerouted them to the front panel. However there are a few things that they didn't put on the front panel; a 80 vs 70 track select (yeah 70 track), a drive select, a 300 vs 600 RPM select and a good number of test points such as the write gate. However on the front panel you can now select 2MHz, 1 MHz, 500kHz, 250kHz, 125kHz or 67.5kHz. Anybody know what that's about? I'm guessing that it controls the bit frequency that's written to the disk and th! > at it's used to test the disk coercivity. On the original board you could only select 1F or 2F. I should add that a 2nd baord as also been added into the case. It's a handwrapped vector board with 20 SSI ICs. I'm sure that it's used to generate and select the extra frequencies and other as yet unknown functions. > > Anybody care to speculate? Some of Sony's early 3.5" drives have a 26 pin connector and spin at 600 RPM. 70 track may be for the ~270K single sided 3.5" disk format (going from memory here, correct me if I'm wrong). If they weren't dealing with any of those drives they'd have no reason to put those controls on the front panel. From donm at cts.com Fri Feb 21 00:05:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:05 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220203526.00a12540@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > Hi, > > I remember in the days after the space shuttle accident, I saw > on CNN, that they were displaying how many times faster than > the speed of light that the space shuttle was going. Yes, they > actually said speed of light. And I was surprised at how long > they let it run like that before it was removed, hours at least. > > Just shows you can't believe everything you read, see on TV, etc. > > I was also surprised I never heard anyone else mentioning it. Unfortunately, you see increasing numbers of errors/misstatements like that these days. Proofreading is becoming a lost art. It is only successfully done by humans and they tend to be rather expensive. As a consequence, newspapers and other printed media are full of misused words - albeit correctly spelled - and not so good grammar. I think that is what you witnessed, also. - don > Best Regards > > > > At 02:25 PM 2/20/03 -0500, you wrote: > > >It never made it to CNN or MSNBC. > > > >MSNBC's web site also altered a story the other day regarding Osama bin > >Ladin and Iraq. The first release made mention that bin Ladin was calling > >his people to kill Hussein. Then, when the US held a press briefing on > >the same topic, and tried to make it sound as if bin Ladin was in cahoots > >with Hussein, MSNBC suddenly altered their story, removing the reference. > > > >No explination to the change. Could have been an error, could have been > >an oversite, could have been a request by someone... could have been > >anything. Point is, the story took a change to reflect the US governments > >desired position on the topic, and they just pretened it had always been > >that way. > > > >Humm... does Winston Smith work for MSNBC? > > > >-chris > > From lsprung at optonline.net Fri Feb 21 00:09:00 2003 From: lsprung at optonline.net (lance sprung) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:05 2005 Subject: Looking for a TRS-80 1 1/4" drive Message-ID: Folks: I am looking for a TRS-80 5.25" drive and cable. Anyone have one available for purchase? Thank you. [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 21 03:04:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:05 2005 Subject: large disk platters? Message-ID: <20030221090031.47835.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> >> To my knowledge the largest hard drive platter was 24". > > Platters of at least 36" diameter have been made; they were used > on ILLIAC IV. hmm, that's sounds about the right size. I remember the lecturer standing behind the platter and it came up to around waist height, which is where I got the 1m estimate from. thanks to all for the thoughts! Jules Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Feb 21 03:54:00 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:05 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:08:43 EST." <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <200302210923.JAA24280@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Roger Merchberger said; > With my contemplation of purchasing a new Sony Picturebook, I was wondering: > > What was the first portable computer that weighed less than 1Kg? > [[I'm assuming that it'd be older than 10 years, so it should be ontopic...]] > Any pointers appreciated! :-) That rather depends on your definition of "computer". I have a Sharp PC-1251 (Basic, 3.4K ram) which weighs about 0.1Kg. Even with the printer/cassette recorder it still only weighs 800g. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Feb 21 04:01:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:05 2005 Subject: recommendations on Sbus DAS FDDI? In-Reply-To: <042d01c2d94b$02383d90$7d00a8c0@george>; from rschaefe@gcfn.org on Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 02:46:09 CET References: <042d01c2d94b$02383d90$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20030221102930.Q41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.21 02:46 Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > Any one to avoid? It'll end up in an Axil SS2 clone routing a > broadband connection into the FDDI backbone, unless someone can > convince me that it's a horrible idea. I have a SS5-110 with a NPI DAS FDDI card (type number 105-0126-04) and Solarais 2.6. This card was also soled by Sun. The card works, but is slow, i.e. I get 2..3 MB/s. The older SGI Indigo 2 R4k4 150 MHz with a GIO64 FDDI card can do 6+ MB/s NFS and 8+ MB/s raw TCP. More important: When I disconnect / reconnect the FDDI cables from / to the NPI card while the interface is up the SS5 hangs. Even Stop A does not work. Powercycling is the only way to get the machine back on its feet again. Get a PMAX, Alpha, RS/6k or the like for this task. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From chpap at ics.forth.gr Fri Feb 21 04:01:47 2003 From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:05 2005 Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? Message-ID: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a RQDX1 controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to installing BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone version of zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be downloaded directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a version of zrqb or something similar? From asholz at topinform.com Fri Feb 21 04:16:00 2003 From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:05 2005 Subject: Monitor Cable for TI-Explorer Message-ID: <3E55FB90.5040508@topinform.com> Hello all, I'm looking for a monitor-cable (optical) and a mouse for the ti-explorer. Andreas From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 21 05:05:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:05 2005 Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAB2@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Christos, > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a RQDX1 > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to installing > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone > version of zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be > downloaded directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1, > i.e. a version of zrqb or something similar? In "XXDP V2.5 Notes" (http://www.chd.dyndns.org/pdp11/xxdp25.notes.txt) I read the following: ZRQA RQDX or RUX50 RD/RX EXERCISER ZRQB RD51/52 DISK FORMATTER RQDX1 DISK DRIVE SUBSYSTEM ZRQC Formattable Winchester (RDnn) or Floppy (RX33) Drives RQDX3 Disk Formatter Utility ZRQD RQDX or RUX50 RD/RX EXERCISER ZRQE RQDX3 EXERCISER ZRQF RQDX3 RX33 Format Utility ZRQG RQDXn RD/RX Disk Summary Diagnostic Now, although my knowledge of XXDP is minimal, the above would make me believe that ZQRB works with the RQDX1 (only), and that the ZQRC is the one that only works on the RQDX3. Anyone know more about this? --f From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 21 06:15:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:05 2005 Subject: Gone fishin' (re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DABC@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> John wrote: > one, I can sell individual cords for this price no problem. Damn! You should have ordered 250 or so! :) > Fate: Having said this, someone on the list will now > admit that they have a bunch for _$5.00_... . Well, probably some even had some for free (I got three with one of the VAXen) but hey.. $6 is a decent price. Especially if you *need* one to get the VAX powered :) I guess I'll have to do some shopping here, too, 'cos I need about 14 of them.. --f From fm.arnold at gmx.net Fri Feb 21 06:25:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:05 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #379 - 30 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030220180001.20389.4227.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030220180001.20389.4227.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 20.02.2003: >--------------------- >Message: 13 >Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:50:39 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS >From: "Eric Smith" >To: >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >Stan Sieler asks: >> but...does anyone know the first data of a binary (not ASCII) >> file transmission via modem? > >I assume that was a typo, and you want the date, not the data? > >> (I know of some done in 1975, from an IBM >> mainframe to a DG Nova.) > >At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that could do this, so >I rather imagine people probably did binary transfers even in those days, >but I don't have any proof of it. >--------------------- Hi, I found this: http://www.smecc.org/sage_a_n_fsq-7.htm at photo 22 it claims: 22. Simplex.jpg. This console provided operation and maintenance of the Long Range Inputs and Outputs. Simplex because there was no redundant hardware. Each radar station fed digitized data to the DC over public telephone lines (a first - they had to invent the modem!). The DC also sent data to the neighboring DCs and to the Command Center (the AN-FSQ-8 computer). From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 21 06:41:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:06 2005 Subject: c64 parts In-Reply-To: <000a01c2d937$0c8d2300$57183d44@strl1201.mi.comcast.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030221010649.3b2fab46@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Are they used in all the C64s? I know somebody that has a pile of them and he was selling them for $1/ea at the last hamfest. Joe At 03:23 PM 2/20/03 -0800, you wrote: >i'm looking for commodore c64 pla chips 9061140-1 & sid chips 6581. > >wayne From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 21 06:50:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:06 2005 Subject: HELP! MFD Checker II In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030221165056.01031b28@mail.optushome.com.au> References: <3.0.6.16.20030220213828.1077981c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030221075334.46cf21c4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:50 PM 2/21/03 +1000, Dr. Ido wrote: >At 09:38 PM 2/20/03, you wrote: >> I just bought this >7> off of E-bay. Obviously it's some kind of disk drive tester. I opened >it up and the entire front panel is hand wired but I also found a >commercail circuit board in it. On the board it says "MFD Checker II" >"Sony" "Made in Japan". Does anyone know anything about a MFD checker? It >looks as though the circuit board was once the major part of another >machine and that they took the switches, displays and indicator lights off >of it and rerouted them to the front panel. However there are a few things >that they didn't put on the front panel; a 80 vs 70 track select (yeah 70 >track), a drive select, a 300 vs 600 RPM select and a good number of test >points such as the write gate. However on the front panel you can now >select 2MHz, 1 MHz, 500kHz, 250kHz, 125kHz or 67.5kHz. Anybody know what >that's about? I'm guessing that it controls the bit frequency that's >written to the disk and th! >> at it's used to test the disk coercivity. On the original board you could >only select 1F or 2F. I should add that a 2nd baord as also been added >into the case. It's a handwrapped vector board with 20 SSI ICs. I'm sure >that it's used to generate and select the extra frequencies and other as >yet unknown functions. >> >> Anybody care to speculate? > >Some of Sony's early 3.5" drives have a 26 pin connector and spin at 600 >RPM. 70 track may be for the ~270K single sided 3.5" disk format (going >from memory here, correct me if I'm wrong). You're right! I just went and dug out a manual for the HP 9121 and 9122 3.5" floppy disk drives. The 9121 only has 70 tracks and is single sided. The 9122 has 80 tracks and is double sided. (Both are 600 RPM drives.) I had always thought they they were all 80 tracks but it seems that the SS ones do indeed have 70 tracks. If they weren't dealing with >any of those drives they'd have no reason to put those controls on the >front panel. True. But I'll change that! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 21 07:05:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:06 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220203526.00a12540@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030221080154.46cf8b06@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:01 PM 2/20/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I remember in the days after the space shuttle accident, I saw >> on CNN, that they were displaying how many times faster than >> the speed of light that the space shuttle was going. Yes, they >> actually said speed of light. And I was surprised at how long >> they let it run like that before it was removed, hours at least. >> >> Just shows you can't believe everything you read, see on TV, etc. >> >> I was also surprised I never heard anyone else mentioning it. > >Unfortunately, you see increasing numbers of errors/misstatements >like that these days. Proofreading is becoming a lost art. It also goes to show what total idiots the news spokesmen are. They miss even the most blatant errors. As far as I'm concerned if they can make such monumental mistakes and not realize it then I don't believe a word that they say. There are still some good REPORTERS out there that auctual research and report on news events and know what they're talking about but most or all of the ones on TV are picked for their looks and not brains! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 21 07:06:20 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:07 2005 Subject: Looking for a TRS-80 1 1/4" drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030221080350.3b2f78e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:05 AM 2/21/03 -0500, you wrote: Subject: Looking for a TRS-80 1 1/4" drive Let's see, is that a 1 1/4" drive made by TRS or a 1/4" drive for a TRS 1? From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 21 07:08:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:07 2005 Subject: DEC rodents Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAC5@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi all, Is any of you (preferrably within driving distance of Holland ;-) plagued with some DEC rodents they'd be willing to, uhh, exterminate in a nice and painless [for the rodents] way? Got some DECstations and VAXstations I'd like to play with in graphics mode... Also: does anyone have a spare VS2000 "console kit" ? Cheers, Fred From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Feb 21 07:22:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:07 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220202925.00a253f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> from "Mail List" at Feb 20, 03 08:34:58 pm Message-ID: <200302211316.IAA04879@wordstock.com> And thusly Mail List spake: > > I remember when they put in a new freeway ramp here, > and I knew someone that had to move, whether they > wanted to or not, so it could be done. Of course they > were paid. Gee, sounds like Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy! ;-) Cheers, Bryan From grg2 at attbi.com Fri Feb 21 07:34:00 2003 From: grg2 at attbi.com (George R. Gonzalez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:07 2005 Subject: TELEX machine, modems Message-ID: <000901c2d9ad$6a63f320$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> Hi, I have just bought a nice clean TELEX machine, it's a TTY-32, 5-level coding, with what looks like a phone line hookup, dial-type phone. I wonder if anybody knows what the modem standard is for this, and/or any phone number I could call to test this thingy out! Thanks, George From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Feb 21 08:01:00 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:07 2005 Subject: TELEX machine, modems Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBB13@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Hi George. Most likely this is a 45.45 Baud tty, often used by HAM radio amateurs. Nowadays most amateurs have turned to PC solutions for RTTY reception. We call that teletype a "carrot crusher" over here in Holland. The 5-bit code is called Baudot, and allows for uppercase characters, numbers and some punctuation. When you say "wait a minute, how is that possible with 32 combinations?" Simple, 2 characters are reserved to shift the whole mechanism from "LETTER" to "DIGIT", so depending on the previous reception of such a special character the characters that follow are readable or garbage. Radio amateurs include something called UOS (Unshift on Space). When the "LETTER" character is not properly received, the first space char makes everything "normal" again. So, to connect a 5-bit teletype to (any) computer you need a conversion program to convert ASCII to Baudot, and at the correct transmission speed. 73 - Henk, PE1CKF Ham Radio amateur and PDP-11 addict. > -----Original Message----- > From: George R. Gonzalez [mailto:grg2@attbi.com] > Sent: vrijdag 21 februari 2003 14:31 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: TELEX machine, modems > > > Hi, I have just bought a nice clean TELEX machine, it's a > TTY-32, 5-level coding, > with what looks like a phone line hookup, dial-type phone. > > I wonder if anybody knows what the modem standard is for > this, and/or any > phone number I could call to test this thingy out! > > Thanks, > > George From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Feb 21 08:06:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:07 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030221030411.GE12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220211928.00a505e0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030220202925.00a253f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3E55194E.1020809@internet1.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030220202925.00a253f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030220211928.00a505e0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030221085733.05954630@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Robert, > killed the dog that lived in the house I be really really bummed out about that. If only they'd just had a tranquilizer dart gun like animal handlers might. But it was probably all unanticipated and spur of the moment action. Best Regards At 10:04 PM 2/20/03 -0500, you wrote: >Quothe Mail List, from writings of Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at >09:24:30PM -0500: > > One time the police came after one of the people that was over there. > > I was at work, but my sister and her boyfriend were here at the time. > > The SWAT team came and made them leave the house and were > > using our front windows to aim from. No shots were ever fired and > > I didn't even hear about it until I got home from work. > >Here in Baltimore County, something like that was in the news a few >years ago. The police claimed to need, for strategic purposes, the >use of a house in a neighborhood near where a hostage situation (IIRC) >was taking place, so they broke in, killed the dog that lived in the >house as it was threatening to them (rightfully defending it's owner's >property---I don't think the owners were home), and used the house for >their work. You can read about it in the archives of the local >newspaper. That was a travesty of justice, and the police became the >murders; the dog's life---the life of an innocent creature, was of no >less value than their own, and they had no right to take it, just >because they wanted to break into, and use, someone's private property >for the so-called "public good." The government in that case was no >less a criminal than the criminal it was trying to apprehend. > > > If the local police can do it, I would guess the federal government > > must have some provision that allows them to do what they must, > > when they must, also. > >It's called bully tactics. > >-- >Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: >All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & >rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify >such >http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Feb 21 08:20:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:07 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <3E55194E.1020809@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030221091210.05954b20@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Sridhar, That's why separation of church and state is probably a very good idea. The people in this country have come here from every region of the world, and have brought their religious beliefs with them. Religion should probably remain a personal matter, and not be made part of the government's areas of concern, other than to protect the peoples rights to practice what form of religion they choose. Best Regards At 11:01 PM 2/20/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > This country was founded by Christians. They may have had some odd > > customs, and they may have made some things "law" that were really > > tradition, but thats no reason to reject everything "religious", such as > > the principles that this nation was founded on. > >I am quite religious myself. I am not Christian. If you try forcing >Christian ideals on me, I will go apeshit. Seriously. Most of the stuff >that Christians think are part of all religions simply aren't. I don't >force my religion on you. Keep yours out of my affairs. > >Peace... Sridhar From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 21 08:23:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:07 2005 Subject: docs for HP 98630 Breadboard? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030221092532.3627d1d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have the docs for the HP 98630 Breadboard Interface card? This is a DIO size card that fits the HP 9000 series 200 and 300 computers. It has a large bread boarding area on it and some SSI ICs for interfacing to the host computer. I need to find out the pin out of the interface and any addresses, interrupts, etc that it uses. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 21 08:29:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:07 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard "68040 Demo Board"? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030221093232.36272b9a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody know what this is for? It's about 4 x 6" and has a 3 pin power connector, a 2 pin connector for a reset signal and ONE 7 segment display. There is no other connectors or I/O. It has the part number 64783-66502 on it but I can't find anything from HP with a 65783 model number. Joe From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Feb 21 08:46:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:07 2005 Subject: First Modems (was RE: cctech digest, Vol 1 #379 - 30 msgs was Re: FYI: 25th) Message-ID: (Did a little Googling yesterday) Bob Scarborough (http://www.pipechat.org/archives/2001/April/digest1990.html) says In the 1930s, the acronym "modem" came into use, a contraction of "modulator/demodulator". This was used in FDM multiplexing, to denote an analog/analog function, where voiceband signals were modulated up into "channel group" spectra of 12 to 110 KHz along with 11 others by using carrier tones and selected sideband energy. The timeline http://www.greatachievements.org/greatachievements/ga_9_3p.html at has 1955 Modem first described by Ken Krechmer, A. W. Morten, and H. E. Vaughn. 1958 AT&T introduces datasets (modems) for direct connection. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Frank Arnold [mailto:fm.arnold@gmx.net] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:23 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: cctech digest, Vol 1 #379 - 30 msgs cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 20.02.2003: >--------------------- >Message: 13 >Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:50:39 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS >From: "Eric Smith" >To: >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >Stan Sieler asks: >> but...does anyone know the first data of a binary (not ASCII) >> file transmission via modem? > >I assume that was a typo, and you want the date, not the data? > >> (I know of some done in 1975, from an IBM >> mainframe to a DG Nova.) > >At least as early as 1965 IBM sold equipment that could do this, so >I rather imagine people probably did binary transfers even in those days, >but I don't have any proof of it. >--------------------- Hi, I found this: http://www.smecc.org/sage_a_n_fsq-7.htm at photo 22 it claims: 22. Simplex.jpg. This console provided operation and maintenance of the Long Range Inputs and Outputs. Simplex because there was no redundant hardware. Each radar station fed digitized data to the DC over public telephone lines (a first - they had to invent the modem!). The DC also sent data to the neighboring DCs and to the Command Center (the AN-FSQ-8 computer). From allain at panix.com Fri Feb 21 08:52:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:08 2005 Subject: Gone fishin' (re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable) References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DABC@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <006b01c2d9b8$335c6be0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > $6 is a decent price. Especially if you *need* one ... I didn't get the impression that that company would sell for $5, but it could happen. I was really pitching pretty hard... To get half off I first asked about quantity 25, and then got them to give that price for a smaller set. > I guess I'll have to do some shopping here, too, 'cos I > need about 14 of them.. You mean all at once? John A. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Feb 21 08:57:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:08 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030221080154.46cf8b06@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220203526.00a12540@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030221093333.05954cb0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Joe, > all of the ones on TV are picked for their looks and not brains! They would also be picked for their speaking ability, vocal tonal qualities, lack of accents for a regionally neutral, and therefore nationally accepted manner of speaking, though some of these features they might also have trained for. I really don't think you would find any national news anchor to be anything less than of significantly above average intelligence. But in this digital mixing age, the reporter may never have been looking at what the viewers were being presented. They may have been looking at a tele-prompter, or some other special in-house signal specifically for their use to help do their portion. The mistake probably should have been caught first by whoever prepared the background material, then by those that prepared that into the display overlay, then by those who were doing the mixing, and then by someone else who actually might monitor the final output results. Did anyone, other than myself, see that? Best Regards At 08:01 AM 2/21/03 +0000, you wrote: >At 10:01 PM 2/20/03 -0800, you wrote: > >On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I remember in the days after the space shuttle accident, I saw > >> on CNN, that they were displaying how many times faster than > >> the speed of light that the space shuttle was going. Yes, they > >> actually said speed of light. And I was surprised at how long > >> they let it run like that before it was removed, hours at least. > >> > >> Just shows you can't believe everything you read, see on TV, etc. > >> > >> I was also surprised I never heard anyone else mentioning it. > > > >Unfortunately, you see increasing numbers of errors/misstatements > >like that these days. Proofreading is becoming a lost art. > > It also goes to show what total idiots the news spokesmen are. They > miss even the most blatant errors. As far as I'm concerned if they can > make such monumental mistakes and not realize it then I don't believe a > word that they say. There are still some good REPORTERS out there that > auctual research and report on news events and know what they're talking > about but most or all of the ones on TV are picked for their looks and > not brains! > > Joe From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Feb 21 09:03:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no In-Reply-To: <200302211316.IAA04879@wordstock.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220202925.00a253f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030221095802.05956a80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Bryan, > Gee, sounds like Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy! ;-) I always meant to getting around to reading that one, but just never did. Maybe I finally should. Best Regards At 08:16 AM 2/21/03 -0500, you wrote: >And thusly Mail List spake: > > > > I remember when they put in a new freeway ramp here, > > and I knew someone that had to move, whether they > > wanted to or not, so it could be done. Of course they > > were paid. > >Gee, sounds like Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy! ;-) > >Cheers, > >Bryan From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Feb 21 09:11:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030221095802.05956a80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> from "Mail List" at Feb 21, 03 09:59:27 am Message-ID: <200302211505.KAA30688@wordstock.com> And thusly Mail List spake: > > Hello Bryan, > > > Gee, sounds like Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy! ;-) > > I always meant to getting around to reading that one, but > just never did. Maybe I finally should. > > Best Regards > You will not be disappointed! And make sure you read all five books of the triliogy. Cheers, Bryan From dan at ekoan.com Fri Feb 21 09:36:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030221093333.05954cb0@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030221080154.46cf8b06@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030220203526.00a12540@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030221102840.031fdc30@enigma> Although we're veering off-topic pretty far, I'll add two items: At 09:53 AM 2/21/03 -0500, you wrote: >The mistake probably should have been caught first by whoever >prepared the background material, then by those that prepared >that into the display overlay, then by those who were doing the >mixing, and then by someone else who actually might monitor >the final output results. > >Did anyone, other than myself, see that? Yes. You can see a snapshot of the ridiculous graphic at http://www.decodesystems.com/cnn-columbia.jpg CNN used to have the motto "Live From Everywhere." After the Oklahoma City bombing that changed. I'll leave it to the reader to decide why. Cheers, Dan From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 21 10:08:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E55B978.8070008@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > You honestly believe that the governmant controls what CNN, MSNBC, FOX, > etc. put into there news casts? Controls? No. Influences? Definitely. > The Crusades were filled with people looking for self gain. They may > have done what they did in the name of the Lord, but it was still for > self gain, from what I have read. Hmm, kinda like the current push for war. > I do recall hearing that the first one was somewhat legit, but it's been > a long time since I've studied that. No part of The Crusades was ever "legit". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 21 10:14:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030221091210.05954b20@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > That's why separation of church and state is probably a very good idea. > The people in this country have come here from every region of the > world, and have brought their religious beliefs with them. Religion > should probably remain a personal matter, and not be made part of the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > government's areas of concern, other than to protect the peoples rights > to practice what form of religion they choose. "should probably"? It's embedded in the Constitution!!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fernande at internet1.net Fri Feb 21 10:28:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E565061.9030308@internet1.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >>The Crusades were filled with people looking for self gain. They may >>have done what they did in the name of the Lord, but it was still for >>self gain, from what I have read. > > > Hmm, kinda like the current push for war. Oh, your one of those people, who thinks it'a about oil. Chad Fernandez Mcihigan, USA From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 21 11:47:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Looking for a TRS-80 1 1/4" drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, lance sprung wrote: > Folks: > I am looking for a TRS-80 5.25" drive and cable. Anyone have one available > for purchase? > Thank you. 1) What model TRS-80? 2) TRS-80s used "industry standard" drives. While not quite as popular a topic as politics or religion, it has been discussed here within the last week. Unless it is an esthetic issue, you can substitute drives from many other machines. 3) Do you have to have a "TRS-80 drive"? (for esthetics, museum display, etc.?) 4) What model TRS-80? Do you need internal? Full height/half height? Do you need a case and power supply with it? Single sided/double sided? Some (model 1) can use 35 track OR 40 track, most others need 40 track. There are even a few models (2000, etc.) that need 80 track 96tpi. > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] Would you mind coercing your mailer into not putting that attachment on your posts? From jwstephens at cox.net Fri Feb 21 11:51:00 2003 From: jwstephens at cox.net (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard "68040 Demo Board"? References: <3.0.6.16.20030221093232.36272b9a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E5665EC.2E2804CE@cox.net> target board for ICE. Older 68k ICE would have either raised the chip thru a target adapter, or if the chip has exposed pins (like DIP or SOJ) then there would have been a clip on adapter. So all you needed to do to play with your ICE system was to clip onto a powered up target processor, configure memory inside your ICE unit, download a program, and have fun We sell ICE where I work (Arium) and we have a target board for ARM9 and ARM7 that we sell for developers, this is just a simpler version of that. Intel didn't need this with I2ICE they could just terminate the ice probe and run virtual 8086 or 80286 or whatever with simulated memory and rom, but needed ballanced signals at the probe if it was not "in circuit" They used a special bondout chip for this. BTW my use of ICE is "In Circuit Emulator" Jim Joe wrote: > Anybody know what this is for? It's about 4 x 6" and has a 3 pin power > connector, a 2 pin connector for a reset signal and ONE 7 segment display. > There is no other connectors or I/O. It has the part number 64783-66502 > on it but I can't find anything from HP with a 65783 model number. > > Joe From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Feb 21 12:17:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030221091210.05954b20@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030221121302.05565ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Sellam, > "should probably"? It's embedded in the Constitution!!! Yes, but remember, the Constitution can be changed, if the people of the United States decided to change it. Hopefully that article will remain as it is. Best Regards At 08:06 AM 2/21/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > > > That's why separation of church and state is probably a very good idea. > > The people in this country have come here from every region of the > > world, and have brought their religious beliefs with them. Religion > > should probably remain a personal matter, and not be made part of the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > government's areas of concern, other than to protect the peoples rights > > to practice what form of religion they choose. > >"should probably"? It's embedded in the Constitution!!! > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 21 12:29:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: STOP! (RE: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject)) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAD0@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Guys. Stop. Topic. Nuf said. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mail List [mailto:mail.list@analog-and-digital-solutions.com] > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:23 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no > subject) > > > Hello Sellam, > > > "should probably"? It's embedded in the Constitution!!! > > Yes, but remember, the Constitution can be changed, if the people > of the United States decided to change it. Hopefully that article will > remain as it is. > > > Best Regards > > > > > > At 08:06 AM 2/21/03 -0800, you wrote: > >On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > > > > > That's why separation of church and state is probably a > very good idea. > > > The people in this country have come here from every region of the > > > world, and have brought their religious beliefs with > them. Religion > > > should probably remain a personal matter, and not be made > part of the > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > government's areas of concern, other than to protect the > peoples rights > > > to practice what form of religion they choose. > > > >"should probably"? It's embedded in the Constitution!!! > > > >-- > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > >------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------- > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > > www.VintageTech.com * From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Feb 21 12:34:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: OT - was Let the witch trials... now oil Message-ID: <129.23882875.2b87ca32@aol.com> In a message dated 2/21/03 8:26:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, fernande@internet1.net writes: > Oh, your one of those people, who thinks it'a about oil. > It isn't??? 60 percent of the setup costs from moving our Army/Navy over there are Fuel costs. All of Bush's decisions consider how it impacts the price of oil, and how much money his friends will make. I have heard Administration Spokespeople say that the Iraqi oil will reimburse the US for the cost of the war. How else does he expect to pay for the war when he is running deficits. It is all about Oil and how much money the oil industry can make before the resources run out. Bush's goal is to make as much money for his oil friends as possible. What do you think the current run up in prices is? This is also why he is gutting environmental protections and ignoring global warming. This is why you can buy vehicles with the worst MPG and get tax credits. It is all about OIL. If you view each of Bush's actions through an oil filter it make them quite understandable. Bush and his friends are Oilmen. Paxton Astoria, OR PS: Sorry for the off topic post, It finally just got to me..... From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Feb 21 12:37:00 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Subject: Re:large disk platters? Message-ID: I think there were larger platters. On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Murray McCullough wrote: > Hi Jules, > To my knowledge the largest hard drive platter was 24". IBM the inventor may have produced > an experimental platter of ~1 m as a demonstration project to management and maybe these platters > were 'sold' or distributed to IBM employees? In about 1976 University of Missouri Bioengineering Program acquired an "IBM surplus image system" from somebody "unknown" out west. They sent a couple of graduate students to pick up the system in a U-Haul truck which was very overloaded. When we rolled the PSU down the hall on castors it left grooves in the floor tile because of the weight. There were 3 cabinet units each 6 feet high and 5 feet wide. One was the power supply, one was the disk controller and the other was the disk. It had a "very large" disk platter that ran vertically, if I remember correctly they were about 3-4 feet in diameter. Interesting noise when they spun up, kind of like turbine engine. There were two clamshell halves that were opened to access the platter, each track had a fixed head over it. Stored on each track was the image on a single display station. By switching between tracks you could access different images. There was a vacuum pump to remove the air if you opened the clamshells to adjust the heads. Each of the display stations had an integrated keyboard and a proximity or optical pen to select menu items. We wanted to investigate distributing medical images rapidly throughout a hospital. It was a one of the kind and after a few head crashes that was the end. We then bought a Ramtek display of 256 X 256 by 8 bits instead for $50K. It sat in a real compuer room with: an Interdata 8/32 a PDP 11/50 running MUMPS with 2 RK05's a PDP 11/20 running DOS-11 with 3 RK05's and a TU10. The SEL, PDP 8 with ASR-33, IBM 026 and IBM 029 were next door. Back in the punch card days of old. Mike From glenslick at hotmail.com Fri Feb 21 13:33:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard "68040 Demo Board"? Message-ID: Maybe it was a demo / tutorial tool for use with an HP 64700 set up for emulating a 68040? > Anybody know what this is for? It's about 4 x 6" and has a 3 pin power >connector, a 2 pin connector for a reset signal and ONE 7 segment display. >There is no other connectors or I/O. It has the part number 64783-66502 on >it but I can't find anything from HP with a 65783 model number. > > Joe _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 21 13:35:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no In-Reply-To: <200302211505.KAA30688@wordstock.com> Message-ID: > > > Gee, sounds like Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy! ;-) > > I always meant to getting around to reading that one, but > > just never did. Maybe I finally should. > You will not be disappointed! And make sure you read all five > books of the triliogy. The hyperspace bypass is only discussed in the opening chapters of the first volume of the trilogy. But read all five to find out other useful information, such as what really happened to the king. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Feb 21 13:35:52 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Using non-sun mice on a sparc? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030221163557.0102fca0@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <200302211930.NAA05509@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > >They made trackballs for some of the SUNs. A friend of mine has one. But I > know that they're hard to find. > > I figured it would probably be quicker/cheaper to adapt an existing > trackball than find the genuine article... even if I have to sacrifice a > real sun mouse to do so (ie, just connect the leds/photodiodes in the > trackball to the sun mouse pcb). One supplier I know that has Sun trackballs, charges $100 for the USB version, and $200 for the older sun mouse port version. On the plus side, they are programmable without software drivers, so we actually use the USB version on our special workstations for accomodating the disabled. -Lawrence LeMay From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Feb 21 13:40:00 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? In-Reply-To: <20030111180000.72600.57374.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: All, yep, it's me again. The 4000 VLC started and ran perfectly. I left it on for about 8 hours as a burn-in test. When I came back, it was (apparently) still running - but the VT-320 it was talking through had died. Arrgggh. I've done a little investigating, so hopefully I won't need quite so many exchanges to get this one going. The external symptoms of the VT320 were: no display; when power switch is on, the LK201 lights flash about once a second. No other sign of life. I turned it off, unplugged it, and opened it up. The power supply board at the side has an output indicator LED which also flashes about once a second. I turned it off, unplugged the power supply board from the mainboard, and turned it on again. In this condition (which I'll call "unloaded"), the output indicator LED comes on and stays on. In addition, the pins on the output connector go to more or less their correct voltage, as determined by labels on the mainboard at the other end of that connector harness: Labelled Ground 5V 12V 18V Actual Ground 6.5V 12.5V 22V The power supply has a big (10-pin) transformer inside a cage (with some other components) on it. The transformer seems to divide the circuitry in two, inasmuch as only the "Ground" traces seem to go to both sides. On the input (upstream, plugs into wall) side, there is a network connected to a UC3842N IC. Google led me to a spec sheet for that, which calls it a "Current-mode PWM Controller". The spec sheet also has a "typical application" schematic for an "Off-line Flyback Regulator" which looks to be at least somewhat similar to the upstream side of the power supply, though I have not traced the latter out well enough to be sure yet. There are also several large electrolytic capacitors on the input side of the power supply. Possible signs of trouble are there, in the form of scorch marks on the PWB around two power resistors (? They have what looks like a powder blue ceramic exterior, are marked 120 Ohms +/- 5% and ?? (maybe 47 Ohms), and are much bigger than most of the resistors on the board). In the "loaded" condition, the resistor with the worst scorch marks around it (R523, as marked on the circuit board) has 0V across it, with a small spike upward (as shown by the needle jerking on my analog VOM) each time the output LED flashes. In the "unloaded" condition, my VOM shows 15V across that resistor, and it gets pretty warm pretty fast. Questions for the group: 1) Have I got good evidence that the fault this time is actually on the power supply board, and not a pull-down on the mainboard, as it was on the VAX 4000 VLC? 2) Is there a good way (without use of an ESR meter, which I haven't got) to isolate which component is bad, or should I just replace the capacitors on suspicion? The power supply, at least, looks very easy to work on. Nice big components, circuit board is only 2 layers (front and back) and not very many traces on the component side, and the traces are exposed and easy to get to in its operating configuration. I'm being careful around the 120VAC (rectified to 160 DC in the unloaded condition). Thanks in advance for any help you can give me! - Mark From grg2 at attbi.com Fri Feb 21 13:47:00 2003 From: grg2 at attbi.com (grg2@attbi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS Message-ID: <200302211946.h1LJkou12477@huey.classiccmp.org> Er, I don't think the modem was invented in late 50's. Modems have been used to send data over phone lines (and over radio) since at least 1940. They may have been called "Terminal units", but they did the basic modem things of mod/demodulating data onto an audio carrier. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 21 13:59:02 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 1 Level II In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Feb 20, 3 10:17:29 am Message-ID: > > L1 machines give a 32*16 mode display of colons if there's no RAM (or if > > the RAM DIP shunt is pulled). I don't know if L2 machines do the same. > > With Z3 pulled I got @9 again (after double checking the ROMs were in > place!). I pulled Z71 as well and got @S. Remember, styrofoam eats MOS What does it do if you pull Z71 with Z3 still in place? > devices like candy :o) (from the RAM testing section of the tech ref) :-). There's also a warning about using sticky tape to hold RAMs in sets of 8 IIRC. That Technical Manual is wonderful... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 21 14:00:07 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: HELP! MFD Checker II In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030220213828.1077981c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Feb 20, 3 09:38:28 pm Message-ID: > I just bought this > item=2507112537> off of E-bay. Obviously it's some kind of disk drive > tester. I opened it up and the entire front panel is hand wired but I > also found a commercail circuit board in it. On the board it says "MFD > Checker II" "Sony" "Made in Japan". Does anyone know anything about a Sounds like a standard floppy drive exerciser. The schematic might well be in the service manaul for the appropriate Sony drive -- there is one in the manual for the single-sided 3.5" drive, for example MFD suggests Micro Floppy Drive (or Disk) -- Sony's name for 3.5" drives. > MFD checker? It looks as though the circuit board was once the major > part of another machine and that they took the switches, displays and Actually, the original drive exerciser was just a PCB with the switches and indecators on it. No case. I guess somebody decided to box one up. > indicator lights off of it and rerouted them to the front panel. However > there are a few things that they didn't put on the front panel; a 80 vs > 70 track select (yeah 70 track), a drive select, a 300 vs 600 RPM select I think some of the Single Sided drives were 70 track... And of course the early 3.5" drives were 600 rpm. > and a good number of test points such as the write gate. However on the > front panel you can now select 2MHz, 1 MHz, 500kHz, 250kHz, 125kHz or > 67.5kHz. Anybody know what that's about? I'm guessing that it controls Testing the write functions of a floppy drive is done by applying a suitable freqeucny square wave to the write data pin and seeing how well it records on the disk. Normally, you need 2 frequences -- the data rate, and twice the data rate (that's the 1F and 2F on the orignal PCB). Sounds like this unit was exteded to allow you to use other frequencies. > the bit frequency that's written to the disk and that it's used to test > the disk coercivity. On the original board you could only select 1F or It's not normaly to test coercivity with a thing like this. It's a tester for the drive, not the disk. > 2F. I should add that a 2nd baord as also been added into the case. > It's a handwrapped vector board with 20 SSI ICs. I'm sure that it's used > to generate and select the extra frequencies and other as yet unknown > functions. Suceh testers are very useful if you get to fix floppy drives. They'll let you move the heads to the correct track to read the head alignment pattern, etc. You do, of course, also need an alignment disk for this. The tester also geneerates the correct signals to check each section of the drive logic -- you can normally change the state of each of the inputs to the drive, monitor the outputs, etc. If you suspect, say, the track 0 sensor is malfunctioning, you can look at the trk00 pin on the interface while moving the head around. If it doesn't change state when it should, then you can dive into the drive with a 'scope and look at the signals in the trk00 circuit. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 21 14:01:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Feb 21, 3 00:08:43 am Message-ID: > With my contemplation of purchasing a new Sony Picturebook, I was wondering: > > What was the first portable computer that weighed less than 1Kg? > [[I'm assuming that it'd be older than 10 years, so it should be ontopic...]] > Any pointers appreciated! :-) Define 'computer', please The Sharp PC1211 (TRS80 PC1) ran BASIC and weighed less than 1kg. I would call it a computer What about the HP65? OK, it's a calculator, but it is fully programmable, with conditional branches, etc. It also has a built-in magnetic card reader/writer (so you do have some kind of permanent storage). I am pretty sure it weighs less than 1kg. Dates from 1973/1974 or so. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 21 14:01:46 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Subject: Re:large disk platters? In-Reply-To: from "McFadden, Mike" at Feb 21, 3 12:37:17 pm Message-ID: > In about 1976 University of Missouri Bioengineering Program acquired an "IBM > surplus image system" from somebody "unknown" out west. They sent a couple [...] > There were two clamshell halves that were opened to access the platter, each > track had a fixed head over it. Stored on each track was the image on a > single display station. By switching between tracks you could access > different images. There was a vacuum pump to remove the air if you opened > the clamshells to adjust the heads. Each of the display stations had an > integrated keyboard and a proximity or optical pen to select menu items. One of the peripherals I have for my PDP11s is a PPL model 121 display system. It uses a magnentic disk to store the video images. I think it rotates once per field (the motor speed is electronically controlled with an eddy current brake IIRC). Images are stored using analogue FM modulation on 3 tracks of the disk (one for each of R, G, B). There are several sets of fixed heads which can be selected so you can store several images on the disk and display them. The disk is a lot smaller than the ones described here, though. I've not taken the HDA apat (for obvious reasons), but it looks to be a normal 14" platter. The HDA fits, disk horizontal, into a normal 19" rack module. There's a separate PSU rack module, and a cardcage of electronics. It connects to the Unibus via a DR11B interface I think. -tony From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Feb 21 14:48:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #469 - 47 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030221180001.10638.82749.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030221204418.85208.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> > Roger Merchberger wrote: > You mean, citing war on others despite (or because > of) the #1 commandment of most [all?] Christian > faiths: "Thou shalt not kill." > Despite 2000 years of trying, Christianity (in all > it's flavors) is still not the dominant faith of > this planet... Any chance there's a reason for that Did you ever bother to get the data? http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm Since your premise is wrong, I'll let you decide whether your conclusion is too.... Thanks for playing! Al From oldcomp at cox.net Fri Feb 21 15:11:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more. References: <002201cdfe66$0ba2a460$6401a8c0@ARTS> Message-ID: <3E569500.2070107@cox.net> Hi Everyone, I've been lurking around the list and on the archives now since around 1997. But since this is my first post, I figure I still qualify as NEW! Introduction: My name is Bryan Blackburn, I live in the great southwest of the USA, and I've been collecting vintage microcomputers since they were cutting edge. I have been repairing and restoring electronic equipment for more than thirty years now as my hobby and profession. My main area of expertise is general electronics and RF communications, I dabble a bit in Ham radio, and I'm fast on the draw with a soldering iron! A short list of my collection is as follows, with comments: Mark 8 Minicomputer - fully restored and pretty. Multiple computers from The Digital Group, Z80, 6800 - I can just about draw the schematics for these from memory, and I could build one in the dark. Kim-1 - Serves as my wall clock. Home built S-100 machine - Never turned it on, don't know anything about it. PDP-11/?? - Seems to work(?) in storage, don't know much about. Vintage (1977ish) homebuilt Apple-1 - I built this from plans by Woz, just to say I did it, then promptly stole most of the chips for other projects. ADM-3A -With lowercase option ASR-33 - Restored, works great. ASR-32 -Terrible shape, paid too much for it, no regrets! To see pics of some of these, take a look at my web site: http://members.cox.net/oldcomp Bryan From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Fri Feb 21 15:13:00 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > What was the first portable computer that weighed less than 1Kg? There may have been earlier ones, but the Poqet was definitely a "real" computer (PC compat). Andy From kth at srv.net Fri Feb 21 15:23:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? References: Message-ID: <3E569D7D.90203@srv.net> Mark Tapley wrote: >All, > yep, it's me again. The 4000 VLC started and ran perfectly. I left >it on for about 8 hours as a burn-in test. When I came back, it was >(apparently) still running - but the VT-320 it was talking through had >died. Arrgggh. I've done a little investigating, so hopefully I won't need >quite so many exchanges to get this one going. > The external symptoms of the VT320 were: no display; when power >switch is on, the LK201 lights flash about once a second. No other sign of >life. I turned it off, unplugged it, and opened it up. The power supply >board at the side has an output indicator LED which also flashes about once >a second. > I turned it off, unplugged the power supply board from the >mainboard, and turned it on again. In this condition (which I'll call >"unloaded"), the output indicator LED comes on and stays on. In addition, >the pins on the output connector go to more or less their correct voltage, >as determined by labels on the mainboard at the other end of that connector >harness: > >Labelled Ground 5V 12V 18V >Actual Ground 6.5V 12.5V 22V > > The power supply has a big (10-pin) transformer inside a cage (with >some other components) on it. The transformer seems to divide the circuitry >in two, inasmuch as only the "Ground" traces seem to go to both sides. On >the input (upstream, plugs into wall) side, there is a network connected to >a UC3842N IC. Google led me to a spec sheet for that, which calls it a >"Current-mode PWM Controller". The spec sheet also has a "typical >application" schematic for an "Off-line Flyback Regulator" which looks to >be at least somewhat similar to the upstream side of the power supply, >though I have not traced the latter out well enough to be sure yet. > There are also several large electrolytic capacitors on the input >side of the power supply. > Possible signs of trouble are there, in the form of scorch marks on >the PWB around two power resistors (? They have what looks like a powder >blue ceramic exterior, are marked 120 Ohms +/- 5% and ?? (maybe 47 Ohms), >and are much bigger than most of the resistors on the board). > In the "loaded" condition, the resistor with the worst scorch marks >around it (R523, as marked on the circuit board) has 0V across it, with a >small spike upward (as shown by the needle jerking on my analog VOM) each >time the output LED flashes. In the "unloaded" condition, my VOM shows 15V >across that resistor, and it gets pretty warm pretty fast. > >Questions for the group: > >1) Have I got good evidence that the fault this time is actually on the >power supply board, and not a pull-down on the mainboard, as it was on the >VAX 4000 VLC? > >2) Is there a good way (without use of an ESR meter, which I haven't got) >to isolate which component is bad, or should I just replace the capacitors >on suspicion? > > The power supply, at least, looks very easy to work on. Nice big >components, circuit board is only 2 layers (front and back) and not very >many traces on the component side, and the traces are exposed and easy to >get to in its operating configuration. > I'm being careful around the 120VAC (rectified to 160 DC in the >unloaded condition). > Thanks in advance for any help you can give me! > - Mark > > > Look at the flyback transformer. That is the ceramic thing with the thick wire attaching to the CRT tube. Does it have a crack around it with hardened "ooze" coming out of it? 90% of the time the vt320's fail, it is this transformer shorting out, which takes the horozontal transistor(?) with it. It heats up, cracking open, and spewing out it's magic ooze. If this is the case, you can replace both of these parts, and it will work again. DEC used some really crappy flyback transformers in these things. However, it would probably be cheaper just to replace the whole terminal in that case. The transformer will probably cost at least $30.00, and the transistor around $5.00. Then comes the fun part of trying to extract and replace them without destroying the circuit board. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 21 15:26:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3641.4.20.168.204.1045862540.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Roger "Merch" Merchberger asks: > What was the first portable computer that weighed less than 1Kg? > [[I'm assuming that it'd be older than 10 years, so it should be > ontopic...]] Any pointers appreciated! :-) Strictly speaking, the first portable digital computer that weighed less than 1 kg would have probably been the Gemini Digital Computer, which was weightless in Earth orbit. I'm not sure what the mass was, but it was undoubtedly more than 1 kg. The first portable digital computer that weighed less than 1 kg on the Earth's surface was introduced in 1974, and had a mass of just under 0.32 kg. It was weightless when it was in Earth orbit on the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project. Identifying this computer is left as a challenge to the reader. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 21 15:32:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: TELEX machine, modems In-Reply-To: <000901c2d9ad$6a63f320$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> References: <000901c2d9ad$6a63f320$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> Message-ID: <1382.4.20.168.204.1045862896.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> George writes: > Hi, I have just bought a nice clean TELEX machine, it's a TTY-32, > 5-level coding, > with what looks like a phone line hookup, dial-type phone. > > I wonder if anybody knows what the modem standard is for this, and/or > any phone number I could call to test this thingy out! Some really old neurons fired and suggest that Telex used FSK similar to Bell 103, but with the frequencies transposed. But I could be completely wrong. From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Feb 21 15:33:04 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question Message-ID: <21020352.48532@webbox.com> you have opened up a can of worms now...or maybe I have because of my comment... what is your definition of a computer? My first thought was the HP65 that was programmable and that was 1974. Early computers didn't have to have a language like BASIC. They just needed to be able to run a program that a user could put in. Best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: Roger Merchberger >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 2/20/03 9:08:43 PM > With my contemplation of purchasing a new Sony Picturebook, I was wondering: > >What was the first portable computer that weighed less than 1Kg? >[[I'm assuming that it'd be older than 10 years, so it should be ontopic...]] >Any pointers appreciated! :-) > >Thanks, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 21 15:35:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard '68040 Demo Board'? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030221093232.36272b9a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030221093232.36272b9a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1233.4.20.168.204.1045863020.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Joe asks: > Anybody know what this is for? It's about 4 x 6" and has a 3 pin > power connector, a 2 pin connector for a reset signal and ONE 7 > segment display. There is no other connectors or I/O. It has the part > number 64783-66502 on it but I can't find anything from HP with a > 65783 model number. It's most likely a test/demo target for the 64700 in-circuit-emulator. You'd need a 64700 with the 68040 pod and probe for it to be useful. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 21 15:38:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <200302211946.h1LJkou12477@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200302211946.h1LJkou12477@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <2036.4.20.168.204.1045863309.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Er, I don't think the modem was invented in late 50's. > > Modems have been used to send data over phone lines (and over radio) > since at least 1940. > > They may have been called "Terminal units", but they did the basic modem > things of mod/demodulating data onto an audio carrier. Sure, but that has no relevance to the original question of when modems were first used to send binary data (not text) from one computer to another over a telephone line. From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Feb 21 15:44:01 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? In-Reply-To: <3E569D7D.90203@srv.net> References: Message-ID: >Look at the flyback transformer. That is the ceramic thing with the thick >wire attaching to the CRT tube. Does it have a crack around it with >hardened "ooze" coming out of it? Will look when I get home. I don't remember there being a wire that went from the PS board to the tube, other than ground straps from the cage assembly. There is a ceramic transformer-looking thing and the wires on it are rusty, which is one of my second-order questions (how to get rid of the rust and arrest the corrosion process). >90% of the time the vt320's fail, it is this transformer shorting out, which >takes the horozontal transistor(?) with it. It heats up, cracking open, and >spewing out it's magic ooze. If this is the case, you can replace both of >these parts, and it will work again. DEC used some really crappy flyback >transformers in these things. Is that transistor on the PS board as well? If so, why does the PS board appear to work "unloaded"? If that's the fault, are the scorch marks under the blue resistors normally there, or unrelated? >However, it would probably be cheaper just to replace the whole terminal >in that case. The transformer will probably cost at least $30.00, and the >transistor around $5.00. Then comes the fun part of trying to extract >and replace them without destroying the circuit board. Sigh. I may look on it as a learning experience, if I can find a replacement transformer that fits. - Mark From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Feb 21 15:47:00 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more. In-Reply-To: <3E569500.2070107@cox.net> References: <002201cdfe66$0ba2a460$6401a8c0@ARTS> Message-ID: Bryan, Wow. *Very* cool! I remember wanting a Digital Group system badly too, but couldn't justify it to my parents and wound up with a TRS-80 M1. I really wish DG had taken off. The flexibility in processor choice alone seems absolutely invaluable to me. Keep up the good work with your collection and attendant website! - Mark From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 21 15:50:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <3264.4.20.168.204.1045864014.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Andy Holt" wrote: > the Poqet was definitely a "real" computer (PC compat). That's quite a sad definition of "real computer". Any one of my PDP-8 or PDP-11 systems, even the wimpiest, is much more of a "real computer" than any PC compatible will ever be. From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Feb 21 16:05:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3E564E18.19768.147656C2@localhost> Well the Atari Portfolio which came out in 89 and was known as the first palm-pad, only weighed 1lb. A British company named DIP designed and made it. When Atari turned down their next model, they sold it to Sharp and it became the Sharp PC 3000 which weighs 1.1 lbs.. Lawrence On 21 Feb 2003, , Roger Merchberger wrote: > With my contemplation of purchasing a new Sony Picturebook, > I was wondering: > > What was the first portable computer that weighed less than > 1Kg? [[I'm assuming that it'd be older than 10 years, so it > should be ontopic...]] Any pointers appreciated! :-) > > Thanks, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger lgwalker@ mts.net From kth at srv.net Fri Feb 21 16:12:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? References: Message-ID: <3E56A8EF.7070003@srv.net> Mark Tapley wrote: >>Look at the flyback transformer. That is the ceramic thing with the thick >>wire attaching to the CRT tube. Does it have a crack around it with >>hardened "ooze" coming out of it? >> >> > >Will look when I get home. I don't remember there being a wire that went >from the PS board to the tube, other than ground straps from the cage >assembly. There is a ceramic transformer-looking thing and the wires on it >are rusty, which is one of my second-order questions (how to get rid of the >rust and arrest the corrosion process). > > It isn't on the power supply board, it is on the main logic board, located under the display. Looking at the screen, it will be on the right, about halfway back. Probably the biggest single component on that board. A big ceramic blob, with the thick wire coming out of the top. The transformer is a big white thing with a high voltage cable plugged into the side of the video tube (with a rubber gasket to protect you from the high voltage). Be careful, because it charges the tube to over 10,000 volts, and can give you a very nasty jolt. You're PS is probably be Ok if it is the flyback that is shot. I believe it is a switching power supply, and they give weird readings when unloaded. >>90% of the time the vt320's fail, it is this transformer shorting out, which >>takes the horozontal transistor(?) with it. It heats up, cracking open, and >>spewing out it's magic ooze. If this is the case, you can replace both of >>these parts, and it will work again. DEC used some really crappy flyback >>transformers in these things. >> >> > >Is that transistor on the PS board as well? If so, why does the PS board >appear to work "unloaded"? >If that's the fault, are the scorch marks under the blue resistors normally >there, or unrelated? > > It is also on the main logic board. It is mounted near the flyback, attached to a metal heatsink. It has a "plastic" washer to insulate it from the heatsink, but that is often melted too. >>However, it would probably be cheaper just to replace the whole terminal >>in that case. The transformer will probably cost at least $30.00, and the >>transistor around $5.00. Then comes the fun part of trying to extract >>and replace them without destroying the circuit board. >> >> > >Sigh. I may look on it as a learning experience, if I can find a >replacement transformer that fits. > - Mark > You have to use the correct model. I used to be able to special order them from a local electronics shop, but haven't bothered in recent years. From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Feb 21 16:16:00 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <3264.4.20.168.204.1045864014.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030221140034.01d36a00@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 01:46 PM 2/21/03 -0800, Eric Smith wrote: >"Andy Holt" wrote: > > the Poqet was definitely a "real" computer (PC compat). > >That's quite a sad definition of "real computer". Any one of my >PDP-8 or PDP-11 systems, even the wimpiest, is much more of a "real >computer" than any PC compatible will ever be. OK, Eric, you've just exposed yourself as an utter snob. :-) Yeah, the PC started off ugly and has accreted even more baggage, but to deny that it is a real computer is ridiculous. If you were to time travel to 1970 and find a lab using a PDP-8 doing some kind of computational work, and ask them if they'd want to trade it in for a 3 GHz PC that you brought back with you from the future, I have no doubt that they'd take the PC and they'd find a way to make it work, despite the I/O and software differences. I've had the discussion with workmates about the following scenario. If the German forces had access to a single 5150 IBM PC back in 1940, would the war have ended very differently? I think it would have. Now we dismiss that much computational power as inconsequential. Ignoring all of that, why are you bringing up the PDP-8 and -11 in the context of computers that weigh under 1 kg? ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From acme at ao.net Fri Feb 21 16:16:49 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 Message-ID: <200302212212.RAA00846@eola.ao.net> From: Vintage Computer Festival Date: 02/20/2003 7:58 PM > On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 acme@ao.net wrote: > > > > OR you can get a copy of MS-DOS 4.00 and patch it to run on the Z-100. > > > > Jeez, Joe, now I'm really gagging. MS-DOS on a Z-100? Yuck. > > The Z-100 was intended as a dual OS machine. You had the best > (presumably) of both worlds: CP/M and MS-DOS. Sure -- that's how I set mine up, but to me, running MS-DOS on it makes it too much like a run-of-the-mill PC, whereas running CP/M-86 gives it more of a "vintage" flavor. Make sense? (I'm not feeling very articulate today) Later -- Glen 0/0 From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Feb 21 16:33:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more. References: <002201cdfe66$0ba2a460$6401a8c0@ARTS> <3E569500.2070107@cox.net> Message-ID: <009001c2d9f8$9ab623e0$5b0add40@oemcomputer> I could not get to your site? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Blackburn" To: Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 3:07 PM Subject: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more. > Hi Everyone, > > I've been lurking around the list and on the archives now since around > 1997. But since this is my first post, I figure I still qualify as NEW! > > Introduction: > My name is Bryan Blackburn, I live in the great southwest of the USA, > and I've been collecting vintage microcomputers since they were cutting > edge. I have been repairing and restoring electronic equipment for more > than thirty years now as my hobby and profession. My main area of > expertise is general electronics and RF communications, I dabble a bit > in Ham radio, and I'm fast on the draw with a soldering iron! > > A short list of my collection is as follows, with comments: > > Mark 8 Minicomputer - fully restored and pretty. > Multiple computers from The Digital Group, Z80, 6800 - I can just > about draw the schematics for these from memory, and I could build one > in the dark. > Kim-1 - Serves as my wall clock. > Home built S-100 machine - Never turned it on, don't know anything > about it. > PDP-11/?? - Seems to work(?) in storage, don't know much about. > Vintage (1977ish) homebuilt Apple-1 - I built this from plans by Woz, > just to say I did it, then promptly stole most of the chips for other > projects. > ADM-3A -With lowercase option > ASR-33 - Restored, works great. > ASR-32 -Terrible shape, paid too much for it, no regrets! > > To see pics of some of these, take a look at my web site: > http://members.cox.net/oldcomp > > Bryan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 21 16:47:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Feb 21, 3 01:36:39 pm Message-ID: > All, > yep, it's me again. The 4000 VLC started and ran perfectly. I left > it on for about 8 hours as a burn-in test. When I came back, it was > (apparently) still running - but the VT-320 it was talking through had > died. Arrgggh. I've done a little investigating, so hopefully I won't need > quite so many exchanges to get this one going. > The external symptoms of the VT320 were: no display; when power > switch is on, the LK201 lights flash about once a second. No other sign of A very common problem, and it's not the PSU in the VT320. Even though, as you've correctly noticed, the PSU is 'tripping'. > life. I turned it off, unplugged it, and opened it up. The power supply > board at the side has an output indicator LED which also flashes about once > a second. > I turned it off, unplugged the power supply board from the > mainboard, and turned it on again. In this condition (which I'll call > "unloaded"), the output indicator LED comes on and stays on. In addition, > the pins on the output connector go to more or less their correct voltage, > as determined by labels on the mainboard at the other end of that connector > harness: > > Labelled Ground 5V 12V 18V > Actual Ground 6.5V 12.5V 22V OK, so the SMPSU is doing something. Try it with a dummy load -- a suitable light bulb -- between each of the output rails and ground (or at least the 5V rail and the 12V rail). My guess is that the PSU voltages will become correct. > 1) Have I got good evidence that the fault this time is actually on the > power supply board, and not a pull-down on the mainboard, as it was on the > VAX 4000 VLC? Alas not. Go back to the main board of the VT320 and look at the flyback transdormer (the one with the thick red EHT cable to the side of the CRT). Most likely it will be physcially cracked. Shorted turns in this transformer is a very common problem in the VT3xx series. Sometimes it takes the HOT (horizontal output transistor) out with it. But the PSU starts tripping owing to excessive load. -tony From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Feb 21 16:49:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <3264.4.20.168.204.1045864014.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <020d01c2d9fb$12154e00$0100000a@milkyway> Eric Smith wrote: > That's quite a sad definition of "real computer". Any one of my > PDP-8 or PDP-11 systems, even the wimpiest, is much more of a "real > computer" than any PC compatible will ever be. What, even if said PC is a K6-II/400 running Linux? I've got two PCs running Slackware 8.1 - one of them is my NAT router/webserver (http://philpem.dyndns.org) and the other is the machine I'm typing on now. Now if only I could persuade SWMBO to learn how to use KDE... I'd still like a DEC Alpha based box of sufficient speed to outrun the K6 (router) though. Especially if it used less power than said router (which is noisy, power hungry and runs quite hot)... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Feb 21 16:51:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question References: <3E564E18.19768.147656C2@localhost> Message-ID: <021701c2d9fb$88b9eca0$0100000a@milkyway> Lawrence Walker wrote: > Well the Atari Portfolio which came out in 89 and was > known as the first palm-pad, only weighed 1lb. > A British company named DIP designed and made it. > When Atari turned down their next model, they sold it > to Sharp and it became the Sharp PC 3000 which > weighs 1.1 lbs.. Speaking of the Atari Portfolio, I still need (er... want) one of those for my collection... Anyone want to part with one? Now if only someone made a HP 700LX that used a data cable instead of that insanely oversized docking port... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Feb 21 16:53:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question References: <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.0.20030221140034.01d36a00@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <021f01c2d9fb$c77be740$0100000a@milkyway> Jim Battle wrote: > I've had the discussion with workmates about the following scenario. > If the German forces had access to a single 5150 IBM PC back in 1940, > would the war have ended very differently? I think it would have. "Who needs zis Enigma vee haff developed? Vee shall use Blowfish to encrypt our messages!" Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 21 16:56:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Feb 21, 3 03:40:24 pm Message-ID: > >Look at the flyback transformer. That is the ceramic thing with the thick > >wire attaching to the CRT tube. Does it have a crack around it with > >hardened "ooze" coming out of it? > > Will look when I get home. I don't remember there being a wire that went > from the PS board to the tube, other than ground straps from the cage The flyback is on the main logic board in these terminals. The PSU is just the 'low voltage' supplies. > >90% of the time the vt320's fail, it is this transformer shorting out, which I would put it at closer to 98% :-) Those transformers are really unreliable. > >takes the horozontal transistor(?) with it. It heats up, cracking open, and Not always. I've had VT3xx's where the transistor was not defective (but the flyback certainly was!) > >spewing out it's magic ooze. If this is the case, you can replace both of > >these parts, and it will work again. DEC used some really crappy flyback > >transformers in these things. > > Is that transistor on the PS board as well? If so, why does the PS board > appear to work "unloaded"? No, all the deflection circuit parts are on the main logic board. > If that's the fault, are the scorch marks under the blue resistors normally > there, or unrelated? > > >However, it would probably be cheaper just to replace the whole terminal > >in that case. The transformer will probably cost at least $30.00, and the > >transistor around $5.00. Then comes the fun part of trying to extract > >and replace them without destroying the circuit board. Oh come on. Those parts are not difficult to desolder without damage. Or at least I've never had any problems doing so. The transistor is a standard part (I forget just what it is, but a good TV spares place would have one). The transformer is non-trivial to find, AFAIK DEC never supplied them as a spare part. I believe there are 3rd party replacements for it, but I can't remember where to get them. -tony From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 21 17:01:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030221140034.01d36a00@postoffice.pacbell.net> References: <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.0.20030221140034.01d36a00@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3383.4.20.168.204.1045868259.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jim Battle wrote: > I've had the discussion with workmates about the following scenario. If > the German forces had access to a single 5150 IBM PC back in 1940, > would the war have ended very differently? I think it would have. How? Do you have any particular scenario in mind? It seems pretty unlikely to me. I suppose it might depend a little bit on what software they get with the computer. But even postulating some really amazing software (off-the-shelf commercial software, not specialized weapon- design software), it's hard for me to imagine how one PC would have offered them any huge advantage over the allies. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 21 17:01:52 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <3641.4.20.168.204.1045862540.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 21, 3 01:22:20 pm Message-ID: > The first portable digital computer that weighed less than 1 kg on the > Earth's surface was introduced in 1974, and had a mass of just under > 0.32 kg. It was weightless when it was in Earth orbit on the > Apollo-Soyuz Test Project. Identifying this computer is left as a > challenge to the reader. Am I anywhere close ? The code name was 'Superstar' The CPU was (part of) a 6 chip hybrid module with 44 pins. The only other chips on the logic board were the firmware ROMs It was user programmable and could store the user programs on little magnetic cards The programming language was RPN-based In other words, it's one of the machines I suggested -- the HP65 -tony From ssj152 at charter.net Fri Feb 21 17:02:39 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more. References: <002201cdfe66$0ba2a460$6401a8c0@ARTS> <3E569500.2070107@cox.net> Message-ID: <016b01c2d9fc$a8f91f80$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Blackburn" To: Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 3:07 PM Subject: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more. > Hi Everyone, > > I've been lurking around the list and on the archives now since around > 1997. But since this is my first post, I figure I still qualify as NEW! > Mark 8 Minicomputer - fully restored and pretty. > Multiple computers from The Digital Group, Z80, 6800 - I can just > about draw the schematics for these from memory, and I could build one > in the dark. > Kim-1 - Serves as my wall clock. > Home built S-100 machine - Never turned it on, don't know anything > about it. > PDP-11/?? - Seems to work(?) in storage, don't know much about. > Vintage (1977ish) homebuilt Apple-1 - I built this from plans by Woz, > just to say I did it, then promptly stole most of the chips for other > projects. > ADM-3A -With lowercase option > ASR-33 - Restored, works great. > ASR-32 -Terrible shape, paid too much for it, no regrets! > > To see pics of some of these, take a look at my web site: > http://members.cox.net/oldcomp > > Bryan Hi Bryan, Welcome to the list. I'm fairly new here, myself and I lurked a while before posting. You have some very nice equipment. I am particularly fond of The Digital Group machines. I had a friend years ago that built one with dual Phi-Deck's, the TVC (TV readout & cassette), and the Z80 CPU. It was VERY NICE, ahead of its time. Expensive, too! The Kim-1 is another favorite of mine. I had one back when they were new and mounted it in an aluminum chassis with breadboard sockets on the top. I wire-wrapped an expansion board, adding another 1K of RAM, and extended the cabling for the cassette I/F to micro jacks on the side of the chassis. Then, with it all fixed up, I sold it. I've been kicking myself regularly since. I have a VIM and a SYM-1, but am still looking for a "reasonably priced" Kim-1. I tried to access your web site and couldn't get to it. ??? I'll try again tomorrow. Regards, Stuart Johnson From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Feb 21 17:10:00 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:09 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <021f01c2d9fb$c77be740$0100000a@milkyway> References: <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.0.20030221140034.01d36a00@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030221150213.020142f0@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 10:51 PM 2/21/03 +0000, Phil Pemberton wrote: >Jim Battle wrote: > > I've had the discussion with workmates about the following scenario. > > If the German forces had access to a single 5150 IBM PC back in 1940, > > would the war have ended very differently? I think it would have. >"Who needs zis Enigma vee haff developed? Vee shall use Blowfish to encrypt >our messages!" I was thinking more along the lines of computing ballistics, and advancing their nuclear program. Besides, ROT13 is good enough for everyday use, right? ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Feb 21 17:11:00 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Will check the flyback xformer, and rip it off the board (OK, I'll desolder it...) if it looks guilty. Probably will take the HOT, if I can identify it unambiguously, as well. Then it's back to the parts-shopping game. Sigh. >> If that's the fault, are the scorch marks under the blue resistors normally >> there, or unrelated? Still curious about this. The scorch marks make me nervous - can or should I try to heat-sink at least the resistor with the bad scorches around it? Also, what if anything should I do about the rusting smaller transformer on the PS board? - Mark From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 21 17:13:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <020d01c2d9fb$12154e00$0100000a@milkyway> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <3264.4.20.168.204.1045864014.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <020d01c2d9fb$12154e00$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <4568.4.20.168.204.1045869002.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: > That's quite a sad definition of "real computer". Any one of my PDP-8 > or PDP-11 systems, even the wimpiest, is much more of a "real > computer" than any PC compatible will ever be. Phil wrote: > What, even if said PC is a K6-II/400 running Linux? Even if it's the dual Athlon XP 1900 running Red Hat 8 which I use for most of my software development. There's no question that it has orders of magnitude more computing power, memory, and disk, but that's not part of my criteria for "real computer": 1) Is it well-engineered from the ground up? PCs: no, a lot of the stuff in even the best PCs is of very poor quality manufacture - even the non-high-tech stuff like the cases are shoddy. 2) Can it be expected to have a long operating life? PDP-8: I've got one that is 27 years old and still works great, largely because it was well-engineered. Do I believe that PCs made today will work 27 years from now? Some will, but if you were to compare PDP-8s and PCs stored and operated under comparable conditions, not nearly as high a percentage of PCs will survive. 3) Is it documented? PDP-8: very well PC: barely at all. Just try to get information about what your BIOS does in System Management Mode - for instance, if you PC supports ECC, how do you get the error log? And forget about getting source code for the BIOS. Although the processors from Intel and AMD are fairly well documented (there are still some secrets, but not as much as in the Pentium Appendix H days), the "chipset" is often poorly documented or not documented at all. For instance, information on configuring the caches and memory controllers is typically not available, with the excuse that the BIOS does it for you. 4) Can it be repaired if it breaks? PDP-8: definitely. PC: no, you throw away a subsystem and get a replacement. The problem here is that any given subsystem (e.g., a video card) is only on the market for maybe two years; after that you can't get an identical replacement. Original-spec PDP-8 replacement parts were available for over 20 years. I'm not saying that PCs don't have their place. I use them all the time. But calling any PC-compatible machine a "real computer" is a sick joke. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 21 17:21:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: References: <3641.4.20.168.204.1045862540.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <4826.4.20.168.204.1045869431.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: > Identifying this computer is left as a challenge to the reader. Tony wrote: > Am I anywhere close ? > > The code name was 'Superstar' > The CPU was (part of) a 6 chip hybrid module with 44 pins. The only > other chips on the logic board were the firmware ROMs > It was user programmable and could store the user programs on little > magnetic cards > The programming language was RPN-based Bingo! > In other words, it's one of the machines I suggested -- the HP65 Yes, I hadn't yet received your message as of when I posted. Eric From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Feb 21 17:22:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #379 - 30 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > 22. Simplex.jpg. This console provided operation and maintenance of the Long > Range Inputs and Outputs. Simplex because there was no redundant hardware. > Each radar station fed digitized data to the DC over public telephone lines (a > first - they had to invent the modem!). The DC also sent data to the > neighboring DCs and to the Command Center (the AN-FSQ-8 computer). > > From the text, this system was already in operation back in 1962, or earlier. > It claims that here a modem was designed for the purpose of it. Does anyone > know more on this? Who was the manufacturer? When started up, and shut down? The radar video datalinks for SAGE were digital, and they did work over standard landlines, but they were real time - not file transmissions. Pure streaming digitized radar video, warts and all, as the radars sent whatever they saw, including noise. There was no real protocol, just some crude timing information. There was no "modem", just a "mo" and a "dem". One half did the transmitting (AN/FST-1 - these were typically at the radar sites), and another half did the receiving (AN/FSR-1, I think - typically at the computer ends). Sometimes, when gap filler radars were used, a whole bunch of AN/FSR-1s would be located with one AN/FST-1 and something called an AN/FSA-10. This latter unit would merge the incoming video data streams together, and relay the merged data. SAGE did have some "real" digital data transmissions - typically to the aircraft fitted with something called an AN/ARR-39. This system allowed SAGE to "fly" the aircraft (the pilot still did all the work, but was relieved of thinking. The complete control of aircraft by SAGE without pilot interaction was planned for, but "never" happened). The protocol is quite simple, and works on subcarriers of the standard tactical UHF band. Full AN/ARR-39s are quite interesting - four boxes, weighing only a little he over 100 pounds, with several hundred tubes and over 500 relays. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 21 17:23:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030221150213.020142f0@postoffice.pacbell.net> References: <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.0.20030221140034.01d36a00@postoffice.pacbell.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030221150213.020142f0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <4466.4.20.168.204.1045869564.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jim Battle wrote: > I was thinking more along the lines of computing ballistics, Computing ballistics would have been some help, but nowhere near enough to change the outcome. > and advancing their nuclear program. Their "nuclear program" had serious defficiencies that wouldn't have been solved by more computing power. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 21 17:23:48 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E565061.9030308@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >>The Crusades were filled with people looking for self gain. They may > >>have done what they did in the name of the Lord, but it was still for > >>self gain, from what I have read. > > > > > > Hmm, kinda like the current push for war. > > Oh, your one of those people, who thinks it'a about oil. No, I'm one of "those people" who sees no logic whatsoever in going to war with Iraq. I don't want to say that those in favor are stupid, but those in favor are dumb. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Feb 21 17:27:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <200302211946.h1LJkou12477@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > Er, I don't think the modem was invented in late 50's. > > Modems have been used to send data over phone lines (and over radio) since at > least 1940. > > They may have been called "Terminal units", but they did the basic modem > things of mod/demodulating data onto an audio carrier. Thanks for backing me on this. Western Electric was fooling around with modems back in the 1930s, as a way to multiplex several telegraph and telephone links over one set of wires. The "first" heavy use of modems was in North Africa during World War 2. The Allies kept in constant communication with the reat of the world using both landline and radio links using modems for telegraph and teletype communications. This is quite well documented. In fact, I used to have one of the modems, and I still have quite a few of the technical manuals. I think the Germans used a series of modems as well, for the same purpose. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Feb 21 17:29:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030221150213.020142f0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Jim Battle wrote: > Besides, ROT13 is good enough for everyday use, right? I like to play it safe, so I use double ROT13 encryption for nearly all of my sensitive communications. -brian. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 21 17:32:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Feb 21, 3 05:07:07 pm Message-ID: > Will check the flyback xformer, and rip it off the board (OK, I'll desolder > it...) if it looks guilty. Probably will take the HOT, if I can identify it > unambiguously, as well. Then it's back to the parts-shopping game. Sigh. The HOT is the power transistor next to the flyback. IIRC it's in a TO220 package. > > >> If that's the fault, are the scorch marks under the blue resistors normally > >> there, or unrelated? > > Still curious about this. The scorch marks make me nervous - can or should > I try to heat-sink at least the resistor with the bad scorches around it? There resistors probably run hot naturally. THey will scorch the PCB a bit, but that's not a fault. Don't worry about it. -tony From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Feb 21 17:33:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <2036.4.20.168.204.1045863309.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > Sure, but that has no relevance to the original question of when modems > were first used to send binary data (not text) from one computer to another > over a telephone line. What about ciphered text? In five letter code groups? With weather symbols? Looks like a file to me! In any case, I think this is all quite silly - another "first" debate. In this case, the computer industry was the *last* group to figure out how to use a modem - the voice guys used it, the telegraph guys used it, the radar guys used it, and the teletype guys used it - all before the computer guys. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 21 17:42:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030221121302.05565ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > > "should probably"? It's embedded in the Constitution!!! > > Yes, but remember, the Constitution can be changed, if the people > of the United States decided to change it. Hopefully that article will > remain as it is. I'll take Philosopher Kings over Democracy any day. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Fri Feb 21 17:46:00 2003 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Trivia Question Message-ID: <200302212342.SAA16574@king.mcs.drexel.edu> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > With my contemplation of purchasing a new Sony Picturebook, I was wondering: > > [...] > What about the HP65? [...] Well I don't have an HP65, I only have an HP67 which still works. On the other hand my brand new Sony Picturebook died on me after only a couple of weeks. (while the machine was on battery power something sorted inside, the machine died, and I smelled burnt insulation). Great progress! **vp From kenziem at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 21 17:54:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030221235049.QURY24974.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Friday 21 February 2003 18:25, Brian Chase wrote: > On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Jim Battle wrote: > > Besides, ROT13 is good enough for everyday use, right? > > I like to play it safe, so I use double ROT13 encryption > for nearly all of my sensitive communications. I wonder if the DMCA applies to stuff encrypted with the double ROT13, or the even more powerfull QUAD ROT 13. From gil at vauxelectronics.com Fri Feb 21 18:22:01 2003 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: TELEX machine, modems Message-ID: <3.0.32.20030221172200.00a33100@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi George: Most Model 32 machines seem to be Telex units; they have a rotary dialer and four buttons at the front -- but the dialer is not for telephone numbers (as it is on model 33 TWX machines which can have either a rotary-dialer or touch-tone-dialer). Telex machines do not communicate with modem frequencies, but use a speciallized DC signalling scheme, described below. However, you can drive the unit with a standard current loop interface. I can put you in touch with someone who has done this, if you'd like. If you do not have a dialer, but instead have a blank panel on the right side (CCU), you have a "private-wire" machine, which is for a simple 20- or 60-mA current loop. The M32 and M33 are based on the same crappy design, which was targeted for low-use/low-cost applications, (as opposed to almost every other teletype model, with bullet-proof parts for 24/7 operation). But I digress. M32: 5-bit baudot (1-start/2-stop?), 50-baud, ~ $0 to $50 M33: 8-bit ascii (1-start/2-stop/even-parity), 110-baud, ~ $100 to $1200 According to my manual the telex CCU is for what they called "Circuit-Switching-Service," and the buttons are labelled: START, DIAL, LOCAL, and CONN(STOP), or possibly labelled: REQUEST, CONN, LCL, and DISCONN. As I understand it, Telex is a dialup service that uses DC signaling (no modem) and is 50-baud baudot. Telex was a service Western Union brought to the US starting in 1958, after it had been used in Europe for a long time -- the 50-baud was a European standard. I belive that Telex machines had some sort of line-interface box (not a modem like an M33 twx) in the stand. Here's part of the manual description of the four-button "Circuit-Switching" (Telex) CCU: "The dialer is a conventional telephone type...contacts open and close to send dialing pulses...in the idle condition, there is a positive current of 0.005 ampere in the telegraph loop. When the calling station operator depresses the START button, it causes the shunting of a major portion of the loop resistance, and the loop current increases to 0.060 ampere. The START button must be held while switching apparatus in the telegraph exchange is made available. When the circuit is ready, the telegraph exchange interrupts the 0.060 ampere loop current for about 0.025 second. This "proceed-to-dial" signal causes the DIAL lamp to illuminate at the calling station, and it locks the shunt to the loop resistance so that the operator may release the START button and proceed to dial the number of the called station...When dialing is complete, the exchange furnishes the connection and signifies this by reversing the telegraph loop current from positive to negative, which causes the typing unit motor to start and the CONN light to illuminate. Message transmission can now be exchanged between the connected teletypewriters. The line signals are 0.060 ampere marking and zero current spacing." gil >From: "George R. Gonzalez" > >Hi, I have just bought a nice clean TELEX machine, it's a TTY-32, 5-level >coding, >with what looks like a phone line hookup, dial-type phone. > >I wonder if anybody knows what the modem standard is for this, and/or any >phone number I could call to test this thingy out! > >Thanks, > >George ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From oldcomp at cox.net Fri Feb 21 18:27:01 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Try again later... was Re: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more. References: <002201cdfe66$0ba2a460$6401a8c0@ARTS> <3E569500.2070107@cox.net> <009001c2d9f8$9ab623e0$5b0add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3E56C2F7.6020604@cox.net> Sorry everyone, I just contacted my web space provider (cox.net) ... looks like the whole service is down with no ETA. Try back later is all I can say. Bryan Keys wrote: >I could not get to your site? > > >>To see pics of some of these, take a look at my web site: >>http://members.cox.net/oldcomp >> >>Bryan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 21 18:35:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <200302212342.SAA16574@king.mcs.drexel.edu> from "Vassilis Prevelakis" at Feb 21, 3 06:42:49 pm Message-ID: > Well I don't have an HP65, I only have an HP67 which still works. Why does the fact that an old HP calcultor still works not suprise me? :-) My HP65 (an easy one, 13xx serial number) is fine. So are both my 67s. OK, the've needed new card reader rollers, but that's all. And yes, I do still _use_ them for calculations... -tony From tim.challenor at tcns.co.uk Fri Feb 21 18:50:01 2003 From: tim.challenor at tcns.co.uk (Tim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Wanted: DG Nova 800/2/3 system/s & peripherals In-Reply-To: <4466.4.20.168.204.1045869564.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1924D5C4-45FF-11D7-B35C-000393DA76FE@tcns.co.uk> Hi I am new to this list, and to this pastime generally. I have just realised how old I am (I know this because my 3 year old son told me), and I started thinking about how I learned about computing. Now I want to build a computing 'museum' too! So - can anyone point me in the direction of any complete (pref. working) DG Nova systems with Dasher terminals, LP/TP2 printer, gemini disks, 9 track tape, and paper tape reader/punch kit? Any-and-all offers considered! I am in London, UK but will happily travel to view/purchase this type of kit, and older (DG, Dec and other brands). Cheers Tim From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Feb 21 19:12:01 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: OT - was Let the witch trials... now oil In-Reply-To: <129.23882875.2b87ca32@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030221184118.035eee68@127.0.0.1> >All of Bush's decisions consider how it impacts the price of oil, and how >much money his friends will make. I guess you discovered the plot to make war for oil. You got us. I say us, because I support George Bush and the Republican party, and will continue to do so. Do you remember how we invaded Venezuela for their oil? What about the invasions of Russia, Saudi Arabia, and all other oil-producing nations? I was particularly happy that we invaded Iraq the first time for oil. Aren't those oil fields under our control already? After all, we were accused of fighting for oil then, too. Since we fought for oil then, why are we going back for oil now? What happened to the oil we stole from Iraq? We must have sold it all so we could buy SUVs. >I have heard Administration Spokespeople say that the Iraqi oil will >reimburse the US for the cost of the war. How else does he expect to pay for >the war when he is running deficits. Wow - you are such a brilliant person. Bush is a dictator, and requires the House of Representatives and the Senate to vote his way or else. Nobody but Bush is responsible for deficits. All hail Bush. It certainly is nice to only have one political party in this Nation. Things sure were tough when we had more than one political party in the United States. Now that the Democratic party has been dissolved and all of them have become rank-and-file Republicans, now we can finally destroy the country once and for all. Democracy sucks. I'm so glad we have a dictatorship now. >It is all about Oil and how much money the oil industry can make before the >resources run out. It's a shame you let this information leak out. We Republicans were trying so hard to keep this secret. I can't wait until we buy out all of the solar panel manufacturers so we can shut them down. After all, we are only trying to screw the little people and sell oil. >Bush's goal is to make as much money for his oil friends as possible. What do >you think the current run up in prices is? You caught us again. This whole "supply and demand" thing is a vast right-wing conspiracy. Actually, every singe energy trader is a member of our ultra-secret society. We hold meetings every month to figure out how to make the price of energy rise as high as it can, so we can make as much money as possible. As a matter of fact, the whole thing with the strike in Venezuela was crafted by the Republican Party and George Bush. It worked, didn't it? >This is also why he is gutting environmental protections and ignoring global >warming. > >This is why you can buy vehicles with the worst MPG and get tax credits. You found the big one. As a Republican, I consider it my duty to screw up the environment as much as possible, so that I can enjoy poor air quality and poisoned water. I can't stand to have natural, clean things around me, so I try my best to destroy the environment. In fact, I take great pride in dumping dangerous chemicals into rivers. I try my best to not recycle anything, and I go out of my way to purchase vehicles that get the worst economy (I making so much money from oil - I can afford to do so) and pollute the most. Part of our right-wing meetings include discussions on how to make the environment as bad as possible. Thankfully, our bubble isolation chambers keep us Republicans from having to breathe the same air or drink the same water that everyone else does. >It is all about OIL. If you view each of Bush's actions through an oil filter >it make them quite understandable. Bush and his friends are Oilmen. I have to admire your abilities. You exposed us Republicans for what we really are. Since we are inhuman, we don't have to worry about destroying the environment. Since we have no children, we don't have to worry about the future. Since we all are in the oil business, we do everything possible to make oil as expensive as possible for the little people, and we wage war against every nation that has oil. >Paxton >Astoria, OR > >PS: Sorry for the off topic post, It finally just got to me..... After all of your in-depth research, including numerous facts and reliable sources, I conclude that you are a skilled journalist. (sigh) Libs. They make me laugh. - Matt From kittstr at access-4-free.com Fri Feb 21 19:39:01 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: TI-99/A Message-ID: <011001c2da12$c29e3590$71d2d63f@amscomputer> Hi, First off I want to thank all who contributed on using VHS tapes as storage, I really appreciate your input. Now my problem is with my TI-99\A home computer. I have noticed that the keyboard is dying. I have been having to hit the keys harder and harder and now some don't work at all. I took it apart and the keyboard seems to be one unit (not disassemble-able). The keycaps don't seem to want to come off either. I was hoping to take the keys apart and clean the contacts but I don't want to break them, if they aren't so posed to come off. Does anyone have any experience cleaning these keyboards? If they are a "toss and replace" component, does anyone know where I could get one? Thanks for any help you can provide. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 21 20:02:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Century Data Systems (tape drive?) exerciser Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030221210431.0f3ff212@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up some of a exerciser box made by Century Data Systems of Anaheim, Ca. It's marked T2000B Exerciser. I THINK it might for the old Marksman T-series DC-300 tape drives. Is anyone here familar with this box or with the T-series tape drives? FWIW CDS was an early manufacturer of hard drives (1960s) and was later bought out by Calcomp. Joe From allain at panix.com Fri Feb 21 20:06:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Trivia Question References: <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.0.20030221140034.01d36a00@postoffice.pacbell.net> <3383.4.20.168.204.1045868259.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <002c01c2da16$6dd7f380$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Jim Battle wrote: > I've had the discussion with workmates about the following scenario. If > the German forces had access to a single 5150 IBM PC back in 1940, > would the war have ended very differently? I think it would have. Entirely with you on this one. How fast could a Blechley-style project create useful software from nothingness? Less than six months. I was there once (a peacetime project). John A. "How many people died because of what I thought up?" -- Jarrod, The Pretender From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Feb 21 20:17:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <002c01c2da16$6dd7f380$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > Entirely with you on this one. How fast could a Blechley-style project > create useful software from nothingness? Less than six months. > I was there once (a peacetime project). Yes, but the Soviets (men, tanks, and weather) still would have kicked Hitler's ass in about the same amount of time. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Feb 21 20:23:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Wanted: DG Nova 800/2/3 system/s & peripherals Message-ID: <1e.ad97509.2b883817@aol.com> In a message dated 2/21/03 4:48:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, tim.challenor@tcns.co.uk writes: > So - can anyone point me in the > direction of any complete (pref. working) DG Nova systems with Dasher > terminals, LP/TP2 printer, gemini disks, 9 track tape, and paper tape > reader/punch kit? Any-and-all offers considered! I am in London, UK > I wish you luck. I know where most of this is in Portland, Oregon, USA. We have Finlay, a DG collector/scrapper here with some of the older stuff. It is a long way from London though and Finlay has an unrealistic, IMHO, idea of value. I could arrange shipping.....and put you in contact if you are interested. I think Lufthansa is flying PDX to Frankfurt, Germany. I should investigate air freight. Paxton Astoria, Oregon USA From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 21 20:33:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Wanted: DG Nova 800/2/3 system/s & peripherals In-Reply-To: <1924D5C4-45FF-11D7-B35C-000393DA76FE@tcns.co.uk> from "Tim" at Feb 22, 2003 12:46:37 AM Message-ID: <200302220229.h1M2TUs31273@shell1.aracnet.com> > to build a computing 'museum' too! So - can anyone point me in the > direction of any complete (pref. working) DG Nova systems with Dasher > terminals, LP/TP2 printer, gemini disks, 9 track tape, and paper tape > reader/punch kit? Any-and-all offers considered! I am in London, UK > but will happily travel to view/purchase this type of kit, and older > (DG, Dec and other brands). At the risk of sounding rude, good luck! While admitadly I'm not out there activelly looking for DG Nova stuff I have noticed that it isn't that common. Also, the chances of finding someone with everything you're looking for is pretty slim. Realistically, start looking for DG Nova stuff, get what you can, when you can. I'm guessing the hardest part you'll have will be in obtaining software and documentation. The downside to this being, but the time you've gotten a fully fuctional system up and running, who knows HOW much other stuff you'll have collected. OTOH, it doesn't hurt to ask. If you make enough people aware of what you're looking for you might be pleasantly surprised. Oh, and in the mean time, take a look at http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ if you haven't already. It includes DG Nova & Eclipse emulators and RDOS 7.5. Zane From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Feb 21 21:00:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: OT - was Let the witch trials... now oil In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030221184118.035eee68@127.0.0.1> from "Matthew Sell" at Feb 21, 03 07:08:05 pm Message-ID: <200302220252.VAA07274@wordstock.com> And thusly Matthew Sell spake: > > It certainly is nice to only have one political party in this Nation. What other political parties do we have?! Lately the Dems = Repubs... Cheers, Bryan From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Feb 21 21:14:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030221233300.16413.61440.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030222031021.1678.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> > No, I'm one of "those people" who sees no logic > whatsoever in going to war with Iraq. I don't want > to say that those in favor are stupid, but those in > favor are dumb. What's great about people like you Sellam, is that every time you think something like this, you get to have egg on your face when it turns out wonderful. I remember all the doom and gloom and naysayers, and the predictions of thousands of bodybags for the Afghanistan War on Terrorism a year and half ago. People thought that those in favor of that were dumb too... I am not someone who loves war. But, I am someone who believes in backing up rules, laws, and civilization with penalties when the rules are broken or in the case of Hussein, not only broken but flouted. It will be over fairly quickly once it starts, and as before (in 1981) it will be a rout. But, this time we will take Hussein out of power and set the people in Iraq free. Iran is probably next on the President's list, and then North Korea. Unless Kim Jong Il pushes to be the next in line and won't wait his turn. It's so wasteful for people like Hussein, Il and the leadership in Iran to do the kind of things that cause this, rather than dedicating themselves to providing the best possible lives and economy for their people. Since we still have people here in the U.S. who think ideaology is more important than doing the right thing, I'm not surprised there are similar people elsewhere... I hope the human race outgrows that someday... It's ok for you to think people in favor of taking Hussein out are stupid.... It only means you don't have a clue what it's all about... Hopefully getting egg on your face a few more times will make you tired of being wrong... Al From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Feb 21 21:15:11 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: c64 parts In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030221010649.3b2fab46@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from Joe at "Feb 21, 3 01:06:49 am" Message-ID: <200302220321.TAA05688@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > i'm looking for commodore c64 pla chips 9061140-1 & sid chips 6581. > Are they used in all the C64s? I know somebody that has a pile of them and > he was selling them for $1/ea at the last hamfest. They were used in most of the older brown 64s. The later 64C has the HMOS-2 8580 instead of the NMOS 6581 (not pin or power-compatible), and many have a 'monster GAL' instead of the PLA and some other support ICs. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I just love a curious consumer! -- "Ranma 1/2" ----------------------------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 21 21:30:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Sarcasm In-Reply-To: <20030222031021.1678.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I can no longer tell which of the political posts are serious, and which are sarcasm. Maybe THAT is when it's time to stop? From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 21 22:00:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more. In-Reply-To: <3E569500.2070107@cox.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Bryan Blackburn wrote: > Vintage (1977ish) homebuilt Apple-1 - I built this from plans by Woz, > just to say I did it, then promptly stole most of the chips for other > projects. Cool! > To see pics of some of these, take a look at my web site: > http://members.cox.net/oldcomp ...but no pictures of it on your website :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Fri Feb 21 22:02:00 2003 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS References: <20030221233300.16413.61440.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000a01c2da26$b3b437a0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> > Er, I don't think the modem was invented in late 50's. > While U.S. Robotics did not invent the modem, they were one of the first companies to sell them for home use. Here are some U.S. Robotics data sheets that I got in February 1978. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/USR/USR_Modem.htm I don't want to argue about who was first to sell a modem. I just think it is neat that U.S. Robotics is still around and I have these data sheets Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley Thanks to Jay West for providing the web servers for www.swtpc.com. From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Feb 21 22:11:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <4568.4.20.168.204.1045869002.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > I wrote: > > That's quite a sad definition of "real computer". Any one of my PDP-8 > > or PDP-11 systems, even the wimpiest, is much more of a "real > > computer" than any PC compatible will ever be. > > Phil wrote: > > What, even if said PC is a K6-II/400 running Linux? > > Even if it's the dual Athlon XP 1900 running Red Hat 8 which I use > for most of my software development. There's no question that it > has orders of magnitude more computing power, memory, and disk, but > that's not part of my criteria for "real computer": OK, I've got a few problems with this. Personally, I think you're confusing the terms 'vintage' or 'classic' and 'real' mostly. For reference, I'll use three computers. One very new - an IBM p690 "Regatta" system, a 'just classic' machine ~10-11 y.o.- an IBM RS/6000 model 520, and a fairly classic machine - an IBM System/36. I've used both the p690 and the 520, and sort-of-used a System/36. Yes, I have 'carefully chosen' these models to prove a point. If you're not familiar with the p690, it's basically what would happen if you took an IBM S/390 (their 'current' mainframe arch... well sort of) mainframe and turned it into an RS/6000. While it doesn't have hot swap CPU or memory, it is about 1/10th the price - the one that Purdue recieved had a street value of about $1.3M. BTW I've got a S/36 I'm trying to get up and running, if anyone cares to help. I've got 0 documentation on the thing. I'll try posting another message to the list sometime soon about it. > 1) Is it well-engineered from the ground up? > PCs: no, a lot of the stuff in even the best PCs is of very poor OK, I agree with this first point. All three of my examples of 'real computers' were "well-engineered from the ground up". > 2) Can it be expected to have a long operating life? > PDP-8: I've got one that is 27 years old and still works great, OK, I agree with two points, but realistically, I'd argue point 1 implies point 2. If it's well engineered, it _should_ have a long operating life. > 3) Is it documented? > PDP-8: very well > PC: barely at all. Just try to get information about what your OK, here's the first problem I see. 'Newer' IBM systems - well maybe all three of my examples - are poorly documented down to the component level. It's actually probably easier to get documentation about the p690 than the other two examples of mine, but I know you can't get anything as good as what you'd need to build replacement firmware or parts from scratch. > > 4) Can it be repaired if it breaks? > PDP-8: definitely. > PC: no, you throw away a subsystem and get a replacement. The > problem here is that any given subsystem (e.g., a video card) is > only on the market for maybe two years; after that you can't get > an identical replacement. Original-spec PDP-8 replacement parts > were available for over 20 years. While not quite the same as 20 years, you *can* still get identical, new, many year old 'replacement' parts for PCs. It's probably easier to do that then it is to get new replacement parts for an IBM RS/6000 model 520 or a S/36, in fact. For example, I just bought, as a part of a new package, a Pinnacle Systems DC10+ video capture card. I *know* that it's been available for at least 4 years, probably longer than that. There are some people that maintain products for very long lifespans, such as lab-equipment interface cards. One thing I'm slightly suprised about is that you're not claiming that it's easy to service 'real computers' at the component level. Of course, that also would be nearly impossible with my examples ;-). That is, unless, you could get schematics on the systems, and/or owned a chip-fab facility for all of the custom IBM silicon in these things. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 21 22:26:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Sarcasm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I can no longer tell which of the political posts are serious, > and which are sarcasm. > > Maybe THAT is when it's time to stop? All my messages are seriously sarcastic ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aek at spies.com Fri Feb 21 22:35:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Century Data Systems (tape drive?) exerciser Message-ID: <200302220434.h1M4YisQ015962@spies.com> > It's marked T2000B Exerciser. It is for the T series disc drives (T40 -> T300) Not of much use unless you have one of these. Did you get the whole suitcase or just the T2000 ? From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 21 22:44:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030222031021.1678.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > What's great about people like you Sellam, is that every time you think > something like this, you get to have egg on your face when it turns out > wonderful. What's great about you, Al, is that you provide proof that Neanerthal man still walks among us. > I am not someone who loves war. But, I am someone who believes in > backing up rules, laws, and civilization with penalties when the rules > are broken or in the case of Hussein, not only broken but flouted. You're right! The next target should be The White House. Down with tyrannical rulers, proliferators of weapons of mass destruction, and terrorists! > It will be over fairly quickly once it starts, and as before (in 1981) > it will be a rout. I think in 1981 the CIA was supplying Osama Bin Laden with training and weapons. > But, this time we will take Hussein out of power and set the people in > Iraq free. Iran is probably next on the President's list, and then North > Korea. Unless Kim Jong Il pushes to be the next in line and won't wait > his turn. Yes, those evil Iranians. We still need to get back at them for ousting the puppet leader we installed there. Nevermind that almost every Iranian you talk to loves the West, dresses in Western style, speaks nearly fluent English, and would really like to get rid of their religious leadership (but they certainly do NOT want the US to do it). > It's so wasteful for people like Hussein, Il and the leadership in Iran > to do the kind of things that cause this, rather than dedicating > themselves to providing the best possible lives and economy for their > people. Yeah, it's too bad. Oh by the way, I saw a guy living under a freeway off-ramp the other day. It's a good thing our own government looks after our best interest rather than investing our tax revenue into military weaponry and programs to further enrich a small group of elites. > Since we still have people here in the U.S. who think ideaology is more > important than doing the right thing, I'm not surprised there are > similar people elsewhere... Al, this is senseless. You keep throwing this lame shit out at me and it's just so obvious that to make a point of it is meaningless. I could sit here forever ridiculing you but I now realize the folly of it. You're an idiot and are incapable of debating beyond the 3rd grade level. Sorry to be blunt but it's arguably a fact. > I hope the human race outgrows that someday... I hope the human race is rid of the genes that produced you and your ilk someday (I know, fat chance). > Hopefully getting egg on your face a few more times will make you tired > of being wrong... Yes, I'm tired of being wrong. You win, Al! Everything I have ever spoken in my entire existence has been a fraud, and you've exposed me. I shall slink away in shame, never to be heard from again. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Feb 21 22:54:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1045889330.18951.2.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Fri, 2003-02-21 at 23:36, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > > What's great about people like you Sellam, is that every time you think > > something like this, you get to have egg on your face when it turns out > > wonderful. > > What's great about you, Al, is that you provide proof that Neanerthal man > still walks among us. > This entire thread reminds me of a quote I once read - "Arguing on the Internet is like the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded." I'd like to see a lot more about classic computers and a whole lot less politics/religion/other-topics-having-nothing-to-do-with-classic-computers. To make this on topic, I've got the PDP-11/83 up and running under 2.11BSD now, with a new-from-ebay DEQNA providing the network interface. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Feb 21 23:06:01 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Political Rants and Other BS Message-ID: <3E5705C1.6050401@charter.net> Can we please end the endless, mindless discussion and get back to 'puters. I'm getting really tired of all of the anti-this and anti-that BS. No wonder so many people have signed off this list. James -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From lsprung at optonline.net Fri Feb 21 23:12:00 2003 From: lsprung at optonline.net (lance sprung) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Anyone have a 5 1/4" drive for a TRS-80 available? Message-ID: HI: I am looking for a 5 1/4" floppy drive for a TRS-80. The cable would be great too! Please let me know the cost. Thank you. Sorry about my posting yesterday asking for a 1 1/4" drive. It was a typo. [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Feb 21 23:14:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > A Regatta is a real computer. A Dual Athlon XP 1900 isn't. And yes, a > 520 is a real computer. And so is an S/36. I know that, my point was that not all of Eric's points are good differentiators between 'non-real computers' and 'real computers'. > And a Regatta is more different from a zSeries than you think. Price > isn't really the applicable issue here. There are z800's which cost > significantly less than a Regatta. I know this, from prior discussions with you, and prior knowledge of both of these machines. But a Regatta is about as close to a z or S/390 you can get in RS/6000 hardware. My point is it's closer to a z than a PC or the other machines I've listed. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Feb 21 23:38:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030222031021.1678.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030221233300.16413.61440.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E56B818.4490.16147590@localhost> Sounds familiar. Another Axis like the one headed by Hitler only this time we're on the wrong side. The 3rd Reich also wanted to save us from ourselves. And you like your brainwashers, put a hypocritical spin on this thrust for world power by saying you're against war from one side of your mouth, while lining up a hit list of future victims of imperial might. Whose rules, whose laws, what sort of civilization. I too hope the human race will outgrow this kind of stupidity some day. People like you are not worth bothering with. Go kick your dog. Lawrence On 21 Feb 2003, , Al Hartman wrote: > > No, I'm one of "those people" who sees no logic > > whatsoever in going to war with Iraq. I don't want > > to say that those in favor are stupid, but those in > > favor are dumb. > > What's great about people like you Sellam, is that > every time you think something like this, you get to > have egg on your face when it turns out wonderful. > > I remember all the doom and gloom and naysayers, and > the predictions of thousands of bodybags for the > Afghanistan War on Terrorism a year and half ago. > > People thought that those in favor of that were dumb > too... > > I am not someone who loves war. But, I am someone who > believes in backing up rules, laws, and civilization > with penalties when the rules are broken or in the > case of Hussein, not only broken but flouted. > > It will be over fairly quickly once it starts, and as > before (in 1981) it will be a rout. > > But, this time we will take Hussein out of power and > set the people in Iraq free. Iran is probably next on > the President's list, and then North Korea. Unless Kim > Jong Il pushes to be the next in line and won't wait > his turn. > > It's so wasteful for people like Hussein, Il and the > leadership in Iran to do the kind of things that cause > this, rather than dedicating themselves to providing > the best possible lives and economy for their people. > > Since we still have people here in the U.S. who think > ideaology is more important than doing the right > thing, I'm not surprised there are similar people > elsewhere... > > I hope the human race outgrows that someday... > > It's ok for you to think people in favor of taking > Hussein out are stupid.... It only means you don't > have a clue what it's all about... > > Hopefully getting egg on your face a few more times > will make you tired of being wrong... > > Al lgwalker@ mts.net From fernande at internet1.net Fri Feb 21 23:39:19 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E570BB2.7090300@internet1.net> vance@neurotica.com wrote: > It *is* about oil. If it were about human rights and "weapons of mass > destruction" (most of which aren't), why aren't we going after mainland > China, North Korea, some of Europe, and *ourselves*? I can't say I exactly like China having those kinds of weapons, but they've had then for years. They don't seem to be itching to use them, either. Korea doesn't have them, and we don't want them to. It's being handled differently than Iraq, However. Europe? Most European countries are considered allies. Ourselves? I don't think were going to bomb ourselves..... at least not with that kind of weapon. We seem to stick to simpler stuff like diesel fuel and fertilizer Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Feb 21 23:55:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Machine Availability (fwd) Message-ID: List FYI: correspond w/George directly concerning this wonderful haul of TTY gear... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:40:20 -0800 From: George B. Hutchison To: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net Subject: [GreenKeys] Teletype Machine Availability GreenKeyers - - - This evening I received a telephone call from a gentleman advising me of the availability of the following teletype equipment. It is free for the taking. It is located in the Seattle area. He does not want the people at "The Source" to be rattled by a bunch of telephone calls, so please e-mail me should you have an interest. The list includes: 1 Ea Model 37 KSR 8 Ea Model 28 KSR 1 Ea Model 35 ASR 5 Ea Model 35 KSR 6 Ea Model 14 TD 1 Ea Model 14 RO Reperf 7 Ea Model 15 KSR 1 Ea Model 15 Perforator-Transmitter (Model 19 KBD) 1 Ea Model 43 RO 1 Ea Model 43 KSR Fair quantity multi-copy paper. The equipment must be removed fairly soon, as the space it is in has been designated by the building owner for another purpose. If it is not wanted by anyone, to the landfill it goes. I have no room for it. 73, George, W7KSJ _______________________________________________ GreenKeys mailing list GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Feb 22 00:01:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs References: <20030222031021.1678.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E571154.8060003@eoni.com> Al Hartman wrote: > But, this time we will take Hussein out of power and > set the people in Iraq free. Yup, set 'em free just like we do everywhere... We'll just mention the western hemisphere, but it really is a global tendency we have. Setting people free... A history of U.S. intervention in Latin America and the Caribbean 1823: The Monroe Doctrine declares Latin America to be in the United States "sphere of influence." 1846: The U.S. provokes war with Mexico and acquires half of its territory, including Texas and California. 1855: U.S. adventurer William Walker invades Nicaragua with a private army, declares himself president, and rules for 2 years. 1898: The U.S. declares war on Spain and as a result annexes Guam, Puerto Rico, the Philippines and Hawaii. 1901 : With the Platt Amendment, the U.S. declares its unilateral right to intervene in Cuban affairs. 1903: The U.S. encourages Panama's independence from Colombia in order to acquire the Panama Canal rights. 1905: The Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine declares the U.S. to be the policeman of the Caribbean; the Dominican Republic is placed under a customs receivership. 1912 : U.S. Marines invade Nicaragua and occupy the country almost continuously until 1933. 1914: Mexican refusal to salute the U.S. flag provokes the shelling of Veracruz by a U.S. battleship and the seizure of parts of the city by U.S. Marines. 1933: U.S. Marines finally leave Nicaragua, but are replaced by a well-trained and well-armed National Guard under the control of Anastasio Somoza. 1954: The CIA engineers the overthrow of the democratically-elected government of Guatemala; 30 years of military dictatorship, repression, and violence follow. 1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the revolutionary Cuban government at the Bay of Pigs. 1965: Johnson sends 22,000 troops to the Dominican Republic to combat the constitutional forces trying to regain power. 1973: The CIA helps overthrow the democratic government of Allende in Chile in favor of a bloody dictatorship. 1981: The Reagan Administration begins the contra war against Nicaraguan civilians. 1983: The U.S. invades Grenada to overthrow a popular government. 1989: The U.S. invades Panama to arrest accused drug dealer Manual Noriega. 1990 : The U.S. intervenes in the Nicaraguan election process through covert and overt means. Free at last. Free at last. Thank God Almighty, I'm free at last. -- If there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the person. If there is beauty in the person, there will be harmony in the house. If there is harmony in the house, there will be order in the nation. If there is order in the nation, there will be peace in the world. ~ Chinese Proverb ~ From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Feb 22 00:08:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <000a01c2da26$b3b437a0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: > While U.S. Robotics did not invent the modem, they were one of the first > companies to sell them for home use. Here are some U.S. Robotics data sheets > that I got in February 1978. > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/USR/USR_Modem.htm > > I don't want to argue about who was first to sell a modem. I just think it > is neat that U.S. Robotics is still around and I have these data sheets > I've got a DC Hayes 300 baud S-100 modem. I think the date on it is 1977. g. From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Feb 22 00:22:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003901c2da3a$3b73d340$020010ac@k4jcw> http://www.heatherington.net/hayes/ A few pictures you might like to peruse. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Gene Buckle > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 01:12 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS > > > > While U.S. Robotics did not invent the modem, they were one > of the first > > companies to sell them for home use. Here are some U.S. > Robotics data sheets > > that I got in February 1978. > > > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/USR/USR_Modem.htm > > > > I don't want to argue about who was first to sell a modem. > I just think it > > is neat that U.S. Robotics is still around and I have these > data sheets > > > > I've got a DC Hayes 300 baud S-100 modem. I think the date > on it is 1977. > > g. From fernande at internet1.net Sat Feb 22 00:31:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: <3E571154.8060003@eoni.com> References: <20030222031021.1678.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> <3E571154.8060003@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3E5717E1.6010208@internet1.net> Jim Arnott wrote: > Yup, set 'em free just like we do everywhere... > > We'll just mention the western hemisphere, but it really is a global > tendency we have. Setting people free... > > > A history of U.S. intervention in Latin America and the Caribbean So your basically an isolationist, then? Sounds like many of the people here are. I don't know much about many of items on your list, However. > 1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the revolutionary Cuban government > at the Bay of Pigs. This ones interests me...... are you saying Cuba is better off, now that Castro is in power, and we shouldn't have tried to prevent that? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Feb 22 00:39:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: FYI: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <003901c2da3a$3b73d340$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > http://www.heatherington.net/hayes/ > > A few pictures you might like to peruse. > Thanks John! It's a neat site. I checked and I've got both the 80-103 and the Micromodem 100 (both S-100). I've got 3 more of the Hayes Stack modems on the way as well. My collection so far is the Hayes 300, 1200, 2400, Optima 96, Transet 1000 and the Chronograph. I'm trying for a complete collection of everything that used the "Stack" aluminum extrusion case. g. From evan947 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 22 00:44:00 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20030222064030.94784.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Hello all, Some of you may recognize my name by now; most won't. I'm a reporter at eWeek (aka, formerly PC Week) magazine. Anyway, as Sellam I. will attest, I'm a self-proclaimed (dare I say) guru, specifically regarding the history of mobile computers. Roger's question thus made me get off my ass and respond. As others noted, some of the early programmable calculators may qualify as "portable computers." Also, the Sharp PC-1201 -- along with the Panasonic/Quasar Handheld Computer, and the Tandy/Radio Shack TRS-80 Pocket Computer 1 -- all debuted in 1980/1981. (If you're near a decent big-city or university library, then check out the January 1981 issue of Byte, on microfilm.) If you don't want to use mere programmability as the line between a calculator and a computer, then consider display features. The TI-58, in 1978, was the first to display letters, not just numbers. The catch was, it could print them on a printer, but not on its own screen. The HP-41C, in 1979, was the first that could display letters natively. It also had removable storage, which third-party companies actually sold applications on. Sellam and I have also discussed (as have others before us, a few years ago) the electronic language translators of the late 1970s. The first one of these was from a Florida company, Lexicon, in 1978 (though a patent was applied for in 1976.) Besides translating words, it also had memory module functions, to make it into a calculator, a primitive flat-file database, or a notepad. Combined with its keyboard, I believe those features make it a "PDA." Lexicon sold out its initial batch of a few thousand units, and promptly ran out of money. They sold the rights to Nixdorf. If you do a Web search for "LK-3000" (the product name), you'll find several references to a Nixdorf product that Lexicon was a reseller of. That is wrong, it was the other way around. I know this because 1.) Lexicon had the patent, and 2.) I personally talked to the founder of Lexicon, Mike Levy, a couple of months ago. (Today he runs Sportsline.com). Craig Corp. made a very similar translator, in 1979, called the M-100. It has the calculator option built-in. Its investors/advisers included Nolan Bushnell (Mr. Atari) and Joe Sugarman (the guy behind those BluBlocker TV infomercials.) TI also had a product, Language Translator. It came out in 1980. Theirs was unique because it actually spoke the synthesized word, so users could learn the foreign pronunciation. It did this using the exact same technology as a best-selling TI product from the year before: the Speak-and-Spell toy. Sharp had a translator too, in 80 or 81 I think, but I don't know much about it. So, you could say Lexicon invented the PDA, if you don't count Alan Kay's concept of a DynaBook, from 1975. The concept only came true in Xerox's "NoteTaker" prototype, but that was more like a primitive laptop, and it wasn't mass producted (according to the book "Dealers of Lightning," only 12 were made.) Another twist to the story of "who invented the PDA" is a Judah Klausner. Klausner's best known as the man behind the Sharp Wizard. That's mildly interesting, but more interesting is this: he also has a 1978 patent for an "electronic directory." I don't think anything came of that, but I'll know more in a few weeks; I've got an interview scheduled with him. Even if there was a prototype, it doesn't beat Lexicon, though Lexicon's involved just one function at a time, vs. being a multi-task integrated unit. Yet another twist is those primitive handheld sports games from Mattel, etc. Those debuted in the mid-1970s. I would NOT call them PDAs, since they only had entertainment functions, not "assistant" functions. But if you choose to consider a calculator as a portable computer, then why not a game too? So the answer of "what was the first PDA (and thus sub-1 Kg)" is still "it depends on how you define PDA." I'm open-minded to other input, but for now, I think the best answer is Mike Levy's device, which was conceptualized in the 74/75 timeframe, patented in 76/77, and sold, en mass, in 78. It was truly first device that could run removable-storage applications, display text vs. just numbers, was handheld, had rechargeable batteries, even had a keyboard, and sold in quantity to the general public. Someone should tell Apple this, the next time they ramble about "inventing" the PDA with the Newton. Evan Koblentz PS -- if anyone visits Boston, you're welcome to visit my apartment, where I have several of these devices that actually work. I have most of the documentation too (none of it's for sale.) --- Roger Merchberger wrote: > With my contemplation of purchasing a new Sony > Picturebook, I was wondering: > > What was the first portable computer that weighed > less than 1Kg? > [[I'm assuming that it'd be older than 10 years, so > it should be ontopic...]] > Any pointers appreciated! :-) > > Thanks, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger From oldcomp at cox.net Sat Feb 22 01:37:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:10 2005 Subject: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more. References: Message-ID: <3E5727B9.7060503@cox.net> For those who may care, I have updated my web site to include a photo of my homebrew Apple 1. See it at http://members.cox.net/oldcomp/apple_1.htm Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Bryan Blackburn wrote: > > > >>Vintage (1977ish) homebuilt Apple-1 - I built this from plans by Woz, >>just to say I did it, then promptly stole most of the chips for other >>projects. >> >> > >Cool! > > > >>To see pics of some of these, take a look at my web site: >>http://members.cox.net/oldcomp >> >> > >...but no pictures of it on your website :( From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Feb 22 02:43:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) References: Message-ID: <002701c2da4e$29fdd340$0100000a@milkyway> Patrick Finnegan wrote: >> 1) Is it well-engineered from the ground up? >> PCs: no, a lot of the stuff in even the best PCs is of very poor > OK, I agree with this first point. All three of my examples of 'real > computers' were "well-engineered from the ground up". I agree with you here - my PCs all have crap cases. Even the top-end Coolermaster or whatever cases are still (allegedly) cheaply made. Even the ones that cost $150! >> 2) Can it be expected to have a long operating life? >> PDP-8: I've got one that is 27 years old and still works great, > OK, I agree with two points, but realistically, I'd argue point 1 > implies point 2. If it's well engineered, it _should_ have a long > operating life. Case in point - my BBC Micro. That thing has been in constant use at a college since they bought it, then it got chucked in a skip and one of my friends rescued it - printer, monitor, drives and all. >> 3) Is it documented? >> PDP-8: very well >> PC: barely at all. Just try to get information about what your > OK, here's the first problem I see. 'Newer' IBM systems - well maybe > all three of my examples - are poorly documented down to the > component level. It's actually probably easier to get documentation > about the p690 than the other two examples of mine, but I know you > can't get anything as good as what you'd need to build replacement > firmware or parts from scratch. Agreed - most of the PC standards (PCI, Hypertransport, etc) are closed-distribution, distributed under NDA and cost a lot. Yes, you could probably get as much info as you needed to rewrite the BIOS from the Linux source code, but it would still take an age to do it. Build an IBM PC clone using an 8086 and a few CPLDs and keep tweaking it until it runs the IBM BIOS. Then grab a copy of "The Undocumented PC" and the IBM PC Technical Manual and start rewriting the BIOS. Unfortunately, I'm trying to do a similar thing with a 386-based board with a Macronix MX83C306/MX83C305 chipset. Even Macronix say they can't help - "That product has been phased out for 7 years". Anyone got a datasheet for this thing? I wanted to port TinyBIOS to this board, but without a datasheet for the chipset, I might as well program an EPROM with random garbage and try that... Also, has anyone got a spare copy of the IBM PC Technical Manual? > For example, I just bought, as a part > of a new package, a Pinnacle Systems DC10+ video capture card. I > *know* that it's been available for at least 4 years, probably longer > than that. There are some people that maintain products for very > long lifespans, such as lab-equipment interface cards. DIY interface cards are even more fun to repair - "Oh, the LS373 at position DX2 has died." [sound of engineer swapping the part over] "Oh, it works again". > One thing I'm slightly suprised about is that you're not claiming that > it's easy to service 'real computers' at the component level. Of > course, that also would be nearly impossible with my examples ;-). My example (the BBC Master 128) used a lot of custom VLSIs - Acorn asked Texas Instruments to design them a few ICs to run the system - the old PLDs used in the BBC B were renowned for overheating and then going "pop". A bit like an AMD Athlon, really. :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jss at subatomix.com Sat Feb 22 03:16:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Political Rants and Other BS In-Reply-To: <3E5705C1.6050401@charter.net> References: <3E5705C1.6050401@charter.net> Message-ID: <1727766958.20030222031227@subatomix.com> On Friday, February 21, 2003, James Rice wrote: > No wonder so many people have signed off this list. That is false. We have more subscribers now than ever. cctalk: 653 cctech: 220 Note: I personally dislike the recent OT spats, but I don't feel that it is appropriate for me to request that they stop. That's Jay's responsibility if he so desires. -- Jeffrey Sharp From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Sat Feb 22 03:23:00 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <3264.4.20.168.204.1045864014.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <000001c2da53$6db03380$4d4d2c0a@atx> > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Eric Smith > "Andy Holt" wrote: > > the Poqet was definitely a "real" computer (PC compat). > > That's quite a sad definition of "real computer". Any one of my > PDP-8 or PDP-11 systems, even the wimpiest, is much more of a "real > computer" than any PC compatible will ever be. > It was not meant as a definition, but to distinguish the device from "Basic-only" compters and similar calculators. The Poqet - precisely because it was PC compat - had essentially full access to the underlying processor. If we want to get "stronger" about what is a *REAL COMPUTER*, then I have to remember the days when I started work and a Real Computer filled a decent-sized room (or more), "toys" (minicomputers like the PDP-11) were just coming in, and microprocessors were not even conceived-of. The Real Computer I used then was an ICT 1905 with 32K of 24 bit core, 12M (6-bit characters) of exchangeable disk ... and a processor power roughly the same as an original PC. The Supercomputer of the time was a CDC6600 (cannot remember the configuration) which occupied a large building and was about the power of an early '386. The Atlas was in the process of being phased-out and there was still an IBM 7094 in use. Andy From jss at subatomix.com Sat Feb 22 03:24:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Fwd: WTB: 8" floppy drive In-Reply-To: <20030221144920.11840.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030221144920.11840.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <108244745.20030222032025@subatomix.com> BAU; reply to original author. ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Mohammad Asim Khan Date: Friday, February 21, 2003, 8:49:20 AM Subject: Required 8" Floppy Drive I need of Following 8" Floppy Drive. Please send me the detail and price of it. Model FDD-412 A Hitachi, Capacity 1.6 MB HHT 24v / 5v Thanks Mohamamd Asim Khan masimk2003@yahoo.com ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- Jeffrey Sharp From j.pepas at mail.utexas.edu Sat Feb 22 04:06:40 2003 From: j.pepas at mail.utexas.edu (Jason Pepas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: 3151 terminal keyboard Message-ID: <200302211413.52905.j.pepas@mail.utexas.edu> hello, I recently inherited an IBM 3151 terminal, but no keyboard! As some of you may know, this terminal used a keyboard with an RJ-45 jack on it. I have been able to find pinouts of both the terminal keyboard connector and a regular AT style keyboard. I connected all the wires appropriatly, but no go. The terminal still says "Problem in keyboard". so, two questions. 1) is it even possible to use an AT or PS/2 keyboard with a 3151 terminal? 2) if so, how? ps, I am not subscribed, so please cc to me. thanks, jason pepas From vance at neurotica.com Sat Feb 22 04:07:40 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E565061.9030308@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > >>The Crusades were filled with people looking for self gain. They may > >>have done what they did in the name of the Lord, but it was still for > >>self gain, from what I have read. > > > > > > Hmm, kinda like the current push for war. > > Oh, your one of those people, who thinks it'a about oil. It *is* about oil. If it were about human rights and "weapons of mass destruction" (most of which aren't), why aren't we going after mainland China, North Korea, some of Europe, and *ourselves*? Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sat Feb 22 04:08:21 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <3264.4.20.168.204.1045864014.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > > the Poqet was definitely a "real" computer (PC compat). > > That's quite a sad definition of "real computer". Any one of my PDP-8 > or PDP-11 systems, even the wimpiest, is much more of a "real computer" > than any PC compatible will ever be. If I'm not mistaken, anything PC-compatible is specifically not a "real computer". Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sat Feb 22 04:09:12 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <020d01c2d9fb$12154e00$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Eric Smith wrote: > > That's quite a sad definition of "real computer". Any one of my > > PDP-8 or PDP-11 systems, even the wimpiest, is much more of a "real > > computer" than any PC compatible will ever be. > > What, even if said PC is a K6-II/400 running Linux? I've got two PCs running A PC running Linux is not a real computer. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sat Feb 22 04:09:51 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <3383.4.20.168.204.1045868259.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > > I've had the discussion with workmates about the following scenario. > > If the German forces had access to a single 5150 IBM PC back in 1940, > > would the war have ended very differently? I think it would have. > > How? Do you have any particular scenario in mind? It seems pretty > unlikely to me. I suppose it might depend a little bit on what software > they get with the computer. But even postulating some really amazing > software (off-the-shelf commercial software, not specialized weapon- > design software), it's hard for me to imagine how one PC would have > offered them any huge advantage over the allies. It wouldn't have to be weapon design software. If it's something that could do rapid logarithms for ballistics calculation, that would be enough. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sat Feb 22 04:10:32 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: LOL! I fell off my chair when I read that. LOL Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Jim Battle wrote: > > > Besides, ROT13 is good enough for everyday use, right? > > I like to play it safe, so I use double ROT13 encryption > for nearly all of my sensitive communications. > > -brian. From trestivo at concentric.net Sat Feb 22 04:11:12 2003 From: trestivo at concentric.net (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? Message-ID: Mark, I followed your thread about troubleshooting your monitor. I have a warehouse in Melbourne Florida with some good and probably some bad VT320's on the shelves. If you zero in on a bad part or suspect something as bad and would like to replace it send me an email and if I can pull one from a unit here it's yours for the cost of shipping. regards, thom From vance at neurotica.com Sat Feb 22 04:11:52 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > > Entirely with you on this one. How fast could a Blechley-style > > project create useful software from nothingness? Less than six > > months. I was there once (a peacetime project). > > Yes, but the Soviets (men, tanks, and weather) still would have kicked > Hitler's ass in about the same amount of time. Not if Hitler hadn't broken the pact. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sat Feb 22 04:12:33 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030222031021.1678.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > I am not someone who loves war. But, I am someone who believes in > backing up rules, laws, and civilization with penalties when the rules > are broken or in the case of Hussein, not only broken but flouted. And you are also one of the people who think America is the one who should make the rules for everyone. *sigh* *shakes head* This country does many things of which I am ashamed. Anyone whose told me otherwise have never come up with any proof. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sat Feb 22 04:13:14 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > That's quite a sad definition of "real computer". Any one of my > > > PDP-8 or PDP-11 systems, even the wimpiest, is much more of a "real > > > computer" than any PC compatible will ever be. > > > > Phil wrote: > > > What, even if said PC is a K6-II/400 running Linux? > > > > Even if it's the dual Athlon XP 1900 running Red Hat 8 which I use for > > most of my software development. There's no question that it has > > orders of magnitude more computing power, memory, and disk, but that's > > not part of my criteria for "real computer": > > OK, I've got a few problems with this. Personally, I think you're > confusing the terms 'vintage' or 'classic' and 'real' mostly. For > reference, I'll use three computers. One very new - an IBM p690 > "Regatta" system, a 'just classic' machine ~10-11 y.o.- an IBM RS/6000 > model 520, and a fairly classic machine - an IBM System/36. I've used > both the p690 and the 520, and sort-of-used a System/36. Yes, I have > 'carefully chosen' these models to prove a point. If you're not > familiar with the p690, it's basically what would happen if you took an > IBM S/390 (their 'current' mainframe arch... well sort of) mainframe and > turned it into an RS/6000. While it doesn't have hot swap CPU or > memory, it is about 1/10th the price - the one that Purdue recieved had > a street value of about $1.3M. A Regatta is a real computer. A Dual Athlon XP 1900 isn't. And yes, a 520 is a real computer. And so is an S/36. And a Regatta is more different from a zSeries than you think. Price isn't really the applicable issue here. There are z800's which cost significantly less than a Regatta. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sat Feb 22 04:13:54 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E570BB2.7090300@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > It *is* about oil. If it were about human rights and "weapons of mass > > destruction" (most of which aren't), why aren't we going after > > mainland China, North Korea, some of Europe, and *ourselves*? > > I can't say I exactly like China having those kinds of weapons, but > they've had then for years. They don't seem to be itching to use them, > either. Given certain incentive, they wouldn't hesitate. > Korea doesn't have them, and we don't want them to. It's being handled > differently than Iraq, However. North Korea has them, U.S. Intelligence shows they have them, and they admit they have them. > Europe? Most European countries are considered allies. > > Ourselves? I don't think were going to bomb ourselves..... at least not > with that kind of weapon. We seem to stick to simpler stuff like > diesel fuel and fertilizer So what? Don't you think it's hypocritical to do the kind of things we accuse them of? Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sat Feb 22 04:15:02 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: <3E5717E1.6010208@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > So your basically an isolationist, then? Sounds like many of the people > here are. If by isolationist you mean that I believe we shouldn't be projecting our collective penis into everyone else's affairs, then yes, I am an isolationist. However, I don't believe that's the proper meaning of the term. > I don't know much about many of items on your list, However. > > > 1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the revolutionary Cuban > > government at the Bay of Pigs. > > This ones interests me...... are you saying Cuba is better off, now that > Castro is in power, and we shouldn't have tried to prevent that? We shouldn't have tried to prevent it because it's none of our business. I think Cuba is worse off with Castro, but it just simply isn't our place to change that. That is for the people of Cuba to do. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sat Feb 22 04:15:55 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <002701c2da4e$29fdd340$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > >> 1) Is it well-engineered from the ground up? > >> PCs: no, a lot of the stuff in even the best PCs is of very poor > > OK, I agree with this first point. All three of my examples of 'real > > computers' were "well-engineered from the ground up". > I agree with you here - my PCs all have crap cases. Even the top-end > Coolermaster or whatever cases are still (allegedly) cheaply made. Even > the ones that cost $150! $150 is still cheap for a case. One of my PC Power and Cooling cases cost $650. It's built like a tank. Peace... Sridhar From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 22 07:30:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: <1045889330.18951.2.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: On 21 Feb 2003, Christopher McNabb wrote: > This entire thread reminds me of a quote I once read - > "Arguing on the Internet is like the Special Olympics. Even if you win > you are still retarded." I agree entirely. I have a certain compulsion to reply to idiotic statements that can only be described as such. I will seek help. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From r.stek at snet.net Sat Feb 22 07:43:01 2003 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Recent Find: Votrax PSS Message-ID: <000001c2da78$21d0d4e0$6401a8c0@mycroft> Patrick - I dug out my Votrax manual (1982), and can give you the voltages: Pins 1-3, 26 VAC, 180 ma Pin 2, 20 VDC, 50 ma Pin 4 is 0 volt reference Unfortunately I don't have a PS for mine either. Be careful if you find a PS from the Votrax Type 'N Talk. It also has the 5 pin DIN, but it puts out: Pins 2-4, 19.8 VDC, .35A Pins 1-3, 17.0 VAC, 1.0A I do have a working TNT, and it is cool! Also, the DIP switch configuration on the PSS: (1 is up, 0 is down) 1-3 baud rate: 000 - 9600 100 - 4800 010 - 2400 110 - 1200 001 - 600 101 - 300 011 - 150 111 - 75 4 up - xon/xoff for serial port 4 down - rts 5 - unused 6 up - power-up message spoken 6 down - power-up message not spoken 7 up - parallel port used as input port 7 down - serial port used as input port 8 up - self-test - continuously performs diagnostic test - no access to PSS in this mode 8 down -normal operating condition Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 22 07:46:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more. In-Reply-To: <3E5727B9.7060503@cox.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Bryan Blackburn wrote: > For those who may care, I have updated my web site to include a photo of > my homebrew Apple 1. > See it at http://members.cox.net/oldcomp/apple_1.htm Cool, thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 22 08:48:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: TELEX machine, modems In-Reply-To: <1382.4.20.168.204.1045862896.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <000901c2d9ad$6a63f320$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> <1382.4.20.168.204.1045862896.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <200302220644150464.06E981E8@192.168.42.130> I can offer something on this... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 21-Feb-03 at 13:28 Eric Smith wrote: >George writes: >> Hi, I have just bought a nice clean TELEX machine, it's a TTY-32, >> 5-level coding, >> with what looks like a phone line hookup, dial-type phone. >> >> I wonder if anybody knows what the modem standard is for this, and/or >> any phone number I could call to test this thingy out! Now I'm glad I spent those years with Western Union's Field Service division (when they still had one), fixing those things. The Model 32 Telex machine did not operate on a standard phone line. It required a dedicated hookup to a specially-equipped Western Union central office. The normal interface was high-voltage DC, 60mA current loop. In the case of longer-than-typical cable pair length, a polar adapter was employed to create a differential DC interface. The later Model 32's were equipped with TLA's (Telex Line Adapters) which used FSK, as you've already guessed. I don't recall the frequencies involved exactly, but 2200/2000Hz Mark/Space wants to stick in my head for some reason. The Telex network, as far as I know, is long dead in the United States, and some other of the more industrialized countries, replaced pretty much by the Internet and FAXes. The Telex-ready Model 32's ran at around 67WPM (Words per Minute)/50 baud. Amateur Radio RTTY standard calls for 60WPM/45.5 baud. In other words, you've got yourself a true museum piece there. You may be able to, if you wanted, convert it for ham radio use. However, you would need to change the motor gearing to bring the speed down a notch. Finding the necessary gear would be an adventure at best, though I can suggest a couple of possible sources if you want to try this. Enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From allain at panix.com Sat Feb 22 08:52:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs References: Message-ID: <007301c2da80$f63913c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: >> What's great about people like you Sellam, is that >> every time you think something like this, you get to >> have egg on your face when it turns out wonderful. > What's great about you, Al, is that you provide proof > that Neanerthal man still walks among us. My vote is for sellam to shut, no, Grow Up. Acting like a 12 year old is seriously not impressing me. Every time you strike out against someone on the list you tend to leave me believing that the other guy was probably right and you've 'lost it'. Same for R.E. BTW, it's not you, it's not your issues, its YOUR BEHAVIOR, idiot! John A. > Al, this is senseless. You keep throwing this lame shit > out at me and it's just so obvious that to make a point > of it is meaningless. right From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Feb 22 09:04:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Political Rants and Other BS References: <3E5705C1.6050401@charter.net> <1727766958.20030222031227@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E579080.9050603@eoni.com> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Note: I personally dislike the recent OT spats, but I don't feel that it is > appropriate for me to request that they stop. That's Jay's responsibility if > he so desires. > We haven't got to name calling yet. And it is mildly amusing. Jim -- If there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the person. If there is beauty in the person, there will be harmony in the house. If there is harmony in the house, there will be order in the nation. If there is order in the nation, there will be peace in the world. ~ Chinese Proverb ~ From jss at subatomix.com Sat Feb 22 09:31:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1371284416.20030222092811@subatomix.com> On Friday, February 21, 2003, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > If I'm not mistaken, anything PC-compatible is specifically not a "real > computer". If I write a PC emulator that runs on a real computer, does the computer become not real? -- Jeffrey Sharp From pzachary at sasquatch.com Sat Feb 22 09:36:01 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pavl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 question References: Message-ID: <3E5798D5.F73A86B2@sasquatch.com> I had a 11/750 that printed garbage to the console, well actually it just wouldn't do anything but 38,400, I tried replacing the L0004, but the problem persisted so I just lived with it. You might check speed/parity other than what it's set for... Pavl_ "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > Hi John, > > Can't help you with your current problem, but I recall reading the > L0004 had a problem with the RS232 receiver chip. If the VAX was > powered down while the console was still powered up, it would kill > the chip. IIRC it is a 1488 or 1489 chip on the board. I think there > is only one of each, but maybe there are two (one for console, one > for TU58). Replacing the dead one will restore your console... > > Regards, > Clint > > On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, John Willis wrote: > > > I just received a new board set for my VAX 11/750, which includes > > an L0004 to replace the one I had before, which would send output > > to the console, but wouldn't read input from the console. Now, however, > > when I put in the new L0004, it prints garbage on the console. What's > > more, > > the _old_ L0004 doesn't print anything on the console anymore. Any > > ideas? > > > > TIA, > > John W. From alhartman at yahoo.com Sat Feb 22 09:39:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Disk Drive In-Reply-To: <20030222101152.22457.67569.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030222153512.20114.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> > HI: > > I am looking for a 5 1/4" floppy drive for a TRS-80. > The cable would be great too! Please let me know > the cost. Thank you. > > Sorry about my posting yesterday asking for a 1 > 1/4" drive. It was a typo. That's fine, but you still haven't provided the specific information about WHICH TRS-80 you needed a drive and cable for... That's like asking for a drive and cable for an Apple Computer... Please be more specific, and I'm sure there are lots of people on this list who could be of help to you. To repeast someone else's request: - What kind of TRS-80 is it? - Do you need an internal or external drive (i.e.: a Model III or IV can use both) - Do you need a case and power supply? - Do you need a 35 or 40 track drive? Or do you need an 80 Track Drive (mostly determined by the model, and the type of disks you want to read). If you can be more specific, those of us willing can be of more help.. Thanks! Al From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Feb 22 10:30:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <002701c2da4e$29fdd340$0100000a@milkyway> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030222110725.021b20f0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Philip Pemberton may have mentioned these words: >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > >> 1) Is it well-engineered from the ground up? > >> PCs: no, a lot of the stuff in even the best PCs is of very poor > > OK, I agree with this first point. All three of my examples of 'real > > computers' were "well-engineered from the ground up". >I agree with you here - my PCs all have crap cases. Even the top-end >Coolermaster or whatever cases are still (allegedly) cheaply made. Even the >ones that cost $150! Let's look at 3 test-cases: 1) My dual Athlon 1600+ - Aluminium server case, 460W bulletproof PS, built-in SCSI, LAN, yaddayadda... I'd call it a real computer, but most here wouldn't.... My cost: $85 shipped sans PS. Light, not built like a tank, but how many tanks have you seen, built out of aluminium? ;-P 2) My CoCo3 - Cheezy plastic case, miniscule PS, minimal expandability - crap. ;-) 3) My wife's main machine: Compaq Prolaint 800 dual Pentium 2 350 server. Case built like a tank (almost 2x heavier than my Dual Athlon) - won't even boot if it can't find it's fans, IIRC a 700W PS, etc. Generally bulletproof. -- it's well on it's way for being almost ontopic, methinks... it's quite old already, for a PC... > >> 2) Can it be expected to have a long operating life? 1) Yes. I built it; I can fix it. 2) Yes. I have one going on 17 years old. (Even tho it's crap!) I still play Rogue on it -- I Love that game! (The PC version sucks.) 3) Not just yes, hell yes! > >> 3) Is it documented? 1) Dunno, don't care. damn thing runs, don't it? Why do I need to solder Athlons, anyway??? 2) Not just no, hell no! The GIME chip is a mystery... and it's the chip that makes everything tick. 3) Better than most PCs out there, and it's available free... --- Out of those three machines, which is a "Real Computer?" In your opinion, prolly "None." That's fine -- it's your opinion. I can live with that. My opinion - All 3. All for different reasons why. And everyone here's going to have a different -- ragging on someone who uses a K6-2 (which I don't personally care for) because their definition of "Real Computer" is different... well... ... almost makes me wanna go back & read more "War for Oil" BS. Just as subjective, but at least mildly entertaining at times. :-/ That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it. Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From cheri-post at web.de Sat Feb 22 11:04:00 2003 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Subject: Re:large disk platters? Message-ID: <200302221700.h1MH0Ae08017@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Wow ! Tony, could you send some photos of your disk drive ? I'd like to see this "mystical" thing ! :) The 24" platters of IBM's RAMAC are known to me but 36" platters ??? Who could have built such disk drives ? Any ideas of the company ? Pierre > > In about 1976 University of Missouri Bioengineering Program acquired an "IBM > > surplus image system" from somebody "unknown" out west. They sent a couple > > [...] > > > There were two clamshell halves that were opened to access the platter, each > > track had a fixed head over it. Stored on each track was the image on a > > single display station. By switching between tracks you could access > > different images. There was a vacuum pump to remove the air if you opened > > the clamshells to adjust the heads. Each of the display stations had an > > integrated keyboard and a proximity or optical pen to select menu items. > > One of the peripherals I have for my PDP11s is a PPL model 121 display > system. > > It uses a magnentic disk to store the video images. I think it rotates > once per field (the motor speed is electronically controlled with an eddy > current brake IIRC). Images are stored using analogue FM modulation on 3 > tracks of the disk (one for each of R, G, B). There are several sets of > fixed heads which can be selected so you can store several images on the > disk and display them. > > The disk is a lot smaller than the ones described here, though. I've not > taken the HDA apat (for obvious reasons), but it looks to be a normal 14" > platter. The HDA fits, disk horizontal, into a normal 19" rack module. > There's a separate PSU rack module, and a cardcage of electronics. It > connects to the Unibus via a DR11B interface I think. > > -tony ______________________________________________________________________________ Keine Lust, immer Ihre Adressdaten in eine E-Mail zu schreiben? Mit der vCard ist Schluss damit! Infos - http://freemail.web.de/features/?mc=021153 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Feb 22 11:05:45 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <3264.4.20.168.204.1045864014.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E57AC2D.8050803@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Smith wrote: > That's quite a sad definition of "real computer". Any one of my > PDP-8 or PDP-11 systems, even the wimpiest, is much more of a "real > computer" than any PC compatible will ever be. I say any computer the USER has access to his/her programs and information is a real computer.Mind you a CLASSIC computer has the BIG IRON :) Ben. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sat Feb 22 11:18:01 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <3E57AC2D.8050803@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <3264.4.20.168.204.1045864014.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E57AC2D.8050803@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1045934042.18941.10.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Sat, 2003-02-22 at 11:58, ben franchuk wrote: > Eric Smith wrote: > I say any computer the USER has access to his/her programs and information > is a real computer.Mind you a CLASSIC computer has the BIG IRON :) > Ben. >From Dictionary.com: com?put?er Pronunciation Key (km-pytr) n. 1. A device that computes, especially a programmable electronic machine that performs high-speed mathematical or logical operations or that assembles, stores, correlates, or otherwise processes information. 2. One who computes -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Feb 22 11:22:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question References: <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.0.20030221140034.01d36a00@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3E57B057.90209@jetnet.ab.ca> Jim Battle wrote: > If you were to time travel to 1970 and find a lab using a PDP-8 doing > some kind of computational work, and ask them if they'd want to trade it > in for a 3 GHz PC that you brought back with you from the future, I have > no doubt that they'd take the PC and they'd find a way to make it work, > despite the I/O and software differences. The 8 don't crash! The 8 has auto-restart mode. The 8 has non-volatile memory and real time OS. If the 8 is running lab equiment it still out performs the PC. And it even can be repaired. > I've had the discussion with workmates about the following scenario. If > the German forces had access to a single 5150 IBM PC back in 1940, would > the war have ended very differently? I think it would have. Now we > dismiss that much computational power as inconsequential. I read a Short story where instead of WWII Germany developed time travel.The end of the story had WWII happen because time travel was a dead end path for mankind.The computer came too late in the war to change much for germany and most people capable of understanding the use of a computer had left the country or made the moral choice not to develop computers for the war effort. > Ignoring all of that, why are you bringing up the PDP-8 and -11 in the > context of computers that weigh under 1 kg? It is the I/O and other stuff that is heavy.0's and 1's don't weigh a much:) Ben. From hansp at aconit.org Sat Feb 22 11:22:41 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question References: <1371284416.20030222092811@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E57B119.7090004@aconit.org> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Friday, February 21, 2003, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > If I write a PC emulator that runs on a real computer, does the computer > become not real? Or does my PDP-9 emulator running on my PC make IT 'a real computer'. I actually have a small SBC PC which boots directly to a PDP-8 emulator, what category does that fit in? -- hbp From msell at ontimesupport.com Sat Feb 22 11:28:00 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: OT - was Let the witch trials... now oil In-Reply-To: <200302220252.VAA07274@wordstock.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030221184118.035eee68@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030222112139.0372f048@127.0.0.1> Bryan, When one party gains clear power, the other strives to find out why, and several members act like they are part of the other party. Remember Jim Jeffords? I'm sure that there were several other Republican to Independant or Republican to Democrat party switches in US history. I don't trust *anyone* who switches party when the balance of power tips to the other side. Either side. I have a lot of respect for Democrats (I am a Republican) who are faithful to their party, and argue facts, not emotions. I actually enjoy debating with these type of people. It gives you a refreshing perspective on life. - Matt At 09:52 PM 2/21/2003 -0500, you wrote: >And thusly Matthew Sell spake: > > > > It certainly is nice to only have one political party in this Nation. > >What other political parties do we have?! Lately the Dems = Repubs... > >Cheers, > >Bryan Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From msell at ontimesupport.com Sat Feb 22 11:29:00 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Sarcasm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030222112521.02ba6108@127.0.0.1> Mine, too. In case nobody noticed..... : ) - Matt At 08:18 PM 2/21/2003 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > I can no longer tell which of the political posts are serious, > > and which are sarcasm. > > > > Maybe THAT is when it's time to stop? > >All my messages are seriously sarcastic ;) > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 22 11:39:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: KIM-1 wall clock (was Re: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more.) In-Reply-To: <3E569500.2070107@cox.net> Message-ID: <20030222173532.2363.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bryan Blackburn wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I've been lurking around the list and on the archives now since around > 1997. But since this is my first post, I figure I still qualify as NEW! Welcome! > Kim-1 - Serves as my wall clock. . . . > http://members.cox.net/oldcomp Do you have a typo at location $49 in the listing at http://members.cox.net/oldcomp/kim1.htm ? It has: 46 d8 CLD FOR 24 HR CLOCK | 47 C9 13 CMP 47 C9, 24 | 49 d0 b5 BNE Ab A9, 00 -| 4b A9 01 LDA WHEN HOURS REACH 13, 4F C9, 00 And I expect that the comment for 24-hour operation should be *4B* A9, 00 Typos/OCR errors aside, pretty slick. How accurate is it? -ethan From pzachary at sasquatch.com Sat Feb 22 12:07:00 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pavl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question References: <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.2.20030221000618.028da3a8@mail.30below.com> <000101c2d9ed$76ae34c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> <5.1.0.14.0.20030221140034.01d36a00@postoffice.pacbell.net> <3E57B057.90209@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3E57BC0F.2EAD0AA5@sasquatch.com> > Jim Battle wrote: > > > If you were to time travel to 1970 and find a lab using a PDP-8 doing > > some kind of computational work, and ask them if they'd want to trade it > > in for a 3 GHz PC that you brought back with you from the future, I have > > no doubt that they'd take the PC and they'd find a way to make it work, > > despite the I/O and software differences. of course, it would only be usefull to them if they could program it, if you didn't bring volumes of intel documentation it wouldn't do much good. similar, the hardware, just try to build a pci card with 1970 hardware so you would be stuck with the serial and paralell ports (unless the machine did USB in which case it would be really useless)... and if the machine failed in the lab it couldn't be replicated or repaired... then there is the development and downtime involved in making the change, it might take longer to do the total job, this is the main reason that there are still pdp-8s is service. more is not always better, look at all the z80 machines still being built. as for what a REAL computer is, I submit that it is subjective, based on whatever the individual can assembly-level program. Most pc machines are the worst sort of junk, but the rc25 and ba23 are proof that dec didn't mind taking the odd shortcut and the proliant 6000 I'm using to type this on (both as computer and desk) with it's 750watt hot-swap power supplies, multiple RAIDs (hot swap drives) and several XEON cpus(cooled by redundiant fans) using ECC ram just might be more reliable than my pdp-11s ever were... REAL...? get real... :) perhaps 'real' is actually subjective, based on what the observer can comfortably lift? Pavl_ From alhartman at yahoo.com Sat Feb 22 12:28:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #472 - 25 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030222180001.28855.8261.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030222182444.83243.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> > And you are also one of the people who think America > is the one who should make the rules for everyone. > *sigh* *shakes head* > > This country does many things of which I am ashamed. > Anyone whose told me otherwise have never come up > with any proof. > > Peace... Sridhar Based on the off-list conversation we had, it's much more likely you decided not to listen to the proof... I've never said the the U.S.A. should make the rules. But, how can you quibble with the concept that it's wrong for a county to attack it's neighbors, or to build up offensive weapons? Or, to defy the United Nations when they order you to disarm? The only way the U.S. figures into all of this, is that it has the backbone that the U.N. does not have. The backbone to back up it's own resolutions. It's the same in international affairs, personal affairs and in raising children... When you make a threat, or set a condition upon behavior, you have to follow through with the penalty when the wrong behavior happens. Otherwise, you teach that person (and others) that rules, threats and responsibility are meaningless... Nobody wants war, but in case such as this... This war will prevent the deaths of millions. Not only by Iraq and Hussein, but by others in the future who will take this example to embolden themselves to do evil without fear of retribution. The penalty for breaking laws and rules must be swift and predictable. That's the only way for there to be a deterrent. Saddam Hussein can avoid the war in a minute. He simply can abide by the U.N. agreements, disarm himself of the illegal weapons and technology, and dedicate himself to making a good life for his countrie's citizens. He would have the added benefit of having the embargo for sale of his oil lifted upon full compliance and good behavior. It's much more in his interest to do that, than the course that he has chosen. How can anyone disagree that what he is doing is sheer madness? The guy can't live without fear of assasination... His life must be desperate and awful. And all by his own choice... Putting attention on the U.S. or President Bush is wrong. That's focusing on the wrong end of the situation. Why aren't there protests calling for all police forces to be disbanded? Using the same arguments that people are using against this war, if the police didn't carry guns or shoot criminals committing acts of crime, why... There'd be a lot less death in the world. Just let the criminals alone.... In fact, how wonderful would it be for all the prisons to be empty, and the courts to have nothing to do... It's all the fault of those crazy police who capture criminals for the fun of it. Because they LOVE to shoot and hurt people... Al From gil at vauxelectronics.com Sat Feb 22 12:37:00 2003 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: TELEX machine, modems Message-ID: <3.0.32.20030222113729.00a6ab90@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi Bruce: When you say that the telex machines used a "high-voltage DC, 60mA current loop," is that implying a 120V loop as in standard TTYs? The reason I ask is that the "private-wire" current loop for an M32/33 is a max of something like 45 volts on the loop supply. I presume then, that the telex interface box was designed for the HV, 60-mil telex loop, and then in turn drove the internal 20-mil input to the selector-magnet-driver card of the M32. Was this telex interface box in the M32 stand? I had not heard of later M32s having Telex Line Adapters for FSK modem application. How can you identify which interface an M32 has? Was there a different dialer CCU, like the one with six pushbuttons used on the twx 33s? I have some additional telex info from other folks added below. ps: Bruce, did you see the post about all those TTY machines for free in Seattle? Lots of good stuff headed for the dump. gil ------------------------------------------------- More telex info from George Hutchison: Using a Teletype Corporation equipped telex machine on RTTY is relatively easy. You need a loop supply with a current limiting resistor (2K or so wirewound pot) a double-pole double-throw switch, and the telex machine. Connect the DPDT switch in the standard manner for reversing polarity. Feed the loop supply (Such as one would find in a 28 LESU) through the pot to the center terminals of the switch. Wire the reversing terminals of the switch to the telex machine input cable/terminals. If you plug the telex machine into 110 VAC, with the loop supply de-energized, it will run open. Some folks tweek the dial on the telex a bit to get the machine to lock up, but this is not necessary. Energize the loop supply. Depending upon the position of the DPDT Switch, the machine will either stop running open, remain on and be ready to type uponst, or will shutdown and the motor will stop. Flipping the switch will result in the opposite condition to occur. With the machine energized and the loop locked, set the loop current for 60 ma. When the machine is on and ready to type, it will key the loop that is coming from the loop supply. From there it is easy to use it to key another machine, a transmitter, or what have you. When the machine is in the off condition, motor shutdown, etc, depressing the "LOCAL" button on the telex will cause it to come to life so you can type locally. I have an ST-6 that I removed the 110VAC that goes through the motor control relay, and set it up with the reversing arrangement as described. Most ST-6 motor control relays were DPDT. The loop current from the ST-6 goes through the motor control/now reversing relay, so when the ST-6 says turn on the motor, the loop current flips polarity and turns on the telex machine. Such a deal. Thought some of you might like this bit of info. 73, George, W7KSJ ------------------------------------------------- More telex info from Don Robert House: I have always just used the loop rather than tapping into the SMD circuitry. I set a loop supply of 120-130 vdc to 62.5 milliamps with two machines wired in series into the loop. The machines usually have a mounting cord on them for this purpose. The M32, if it is a former Telex, it uses the ITA2 version of Baudot code. It is a 7.00 unit code with 1 start bit and 1 stop bit, which is 50 baud and 67 words per minute. ------------------------------------------------- More telex info from Jim Haynes: There are two Telex interfaces to the M32. One is neutral, and the other is a polar adapter that plugs into the neutral one. Look in the Western Union Technical Review CD ROM; I think it's all documented in there. And yes, it's 50 baud, 7.5 unit code. ------------------------------------------------- More telex info from Wayne LeTourneau: Most Telex's are 66 WPM, I have 60WPM gears in mine and I connect the local loop to terminals 8 & 9 in the rear. Local loop set at 60ma and not to exceed 100 VDC. It copies fine, I'M using a Flesher 170 tu. It also has automatic caridge return and automatic line feed, so can copy those RTTY stations that are using computers and don't have enough sense to send a LF and CR at the right time. I cannot get mine to talk to itself yet, have not figured out how to get the keyboard in series with the printer. Actually, the selector Magnets on thease draw close to 500ma, so you have to use the driver card, which is where terminals 8 & 9 end up. Wayne WB0CTE ------------------------------------------------- >From: "Bruce Lane" > > Now I'm glad I spent those years with Western Union's Field Service division (when they still had one), fixing those things. > > The Model 32 Telex machine did not operate on a standard phone line. It required a dedicated hookup to a specially-equipped Western Union central office. The normal interface was high-voltage DC, 60mA current loop. In the case of longer-than-typical cable pair length, a polar adapter was employed to create a differential DC interface. > > The later Model 32's were equipped with TLA's (Telex Line Adapters) which used FSK, as you've already guessed. I don't recall the frequencies involved exactly, but 2200/2000Hz Mark/Space wants to stick in my head for some reason. > > The Telex network, as far as I know, is long dead in the United States, and some other of the more industrialized countries, replaced pretty much by the Internet and FAXes. The Telex-ready Model 32's ran at around 67WPM (Words per Minute)/50 baud. Amateur Radio RTTY standard calls for 60WPM/45.5 baud. > > In other words, you've got yourself a true museum piece there. You may be able to, if you wanted, convert it for ham radio use. However, you would need to change the motor gearing to bring the speed down a notch. Finding the necessary gear would be an adventure at best, though I can suggest a couple of possible sources if you want to try this. > > Enjoy! > >Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 22 12:48:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #472 - 25 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030222182444.83243.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030222182444.83243.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030222184445.XHQ19204.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> > Nobody wants war, but in case such as this... This war > will prevent the deaths of millions. Not only by Iraq > and Hussein, but by others in the future who will take > this example to embolden themselves to do evil without > fear of retribution. So then why not demand that all countires with weapons of mass destruction disarm? Why not start with those that have actually used them in the past. > The penalty for breaking laws and rules must be swift > and predictable. That's the only way for there to be a > deterrent. And not applied randomly. There are many other UN sanctions that are being ignored or have been vetoed. > Saddam Hussein can avoid the war in a minute. He > simply can abide by the U.N. agreements, disarm > himself of the illegal weapons and technology, and > dedicate himself to making a good life for his > countrie's citizens. He claims to have done just that and the arms inspectors have not been able to find anything. If the US has been concealing the evidence of this then they are as guilty as he is. > Why aren't there protests calling for all police > forces to be disbanded? Using the same arguments that > people are using against this war, if the police > didn't carry guns or shoot criminals committing acts > of crime, why... There'd be a lot less death in the > world. Because in most countries the police require proof before an arrest and then there is a trial before an execution. The police do not stop you on the street demand proof of your innocence claim you are lying and shoot you. From oldcomp at cox.net Sat Feb 22 12:59:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: KIM-1 wall clock (was Re: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more.) References: <20030222173532.2363.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E57C79F.4020902@cox.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: >Do you have a typo at location $49 in the listing at >http://members.cox.net/oldcomp/kim1.htm ? It has: > > 46 d8 CLD FOR 24 HR CLOCK | > 47 C9 13 CMP 47 C9, 24 | > 49 d0 b5 BNE Ab A9, 00 -| > 4b A9 01 LDA WHEN HOURS REACH 13, 4F C9, 00 > >And I expect that the comment for 24-hour operation should be *4B* A9, 00 > >Typos/OCR errors aside, pretty slick. How accurate is it? > > Hmmm... You are correct sir!! OCR is evil. I thought I caught them all! Thanks, Bryan From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 22 13:10:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > This ones interests me...... are you saying Cuba is better off, now that > > Castro is in power, and we shouldn't have tried to prevent that? > > We shouldn't have tried to prevent it because it's none of our business. > I think Cuba is worse off with Castro, but it just simply isn't our place > to change that. That is for the people of Cuba to do. Actually, the only reason Cuba is worse off with Castro is because the US continues to economically sanction Cuba because our government doesn't agree with Castro's politics. I'm not saying everything the US does is stupid, but a lot of the things that the US does is stupid. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Feb 22 13:13:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question References: <1371284416.20030222092811@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <02ac01c2daa6$1e2f0720$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Trivia Question > On Friday, February 21, 2003, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > If I'm not mistaken, anything PC-compatible is specifically not a "real > > computer". > > If I write a PC emulator that runs on a real computer, does the computer > become not real? I was going to say yes, but that begs the question: Does emulating a Real Computer on a peasea make said peasea a Real Computer? > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp Bob From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 22 13:21:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <1371284416.20030222092811@subatomix.com> Message-ID: > On Friday, February 21, 2003, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > If I'm not mistaken, anything PC-compatible is specifically not a "real > > computer". > If I write a PC emulator that runs on a real computer, does the computer > become not real? YES From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 22 13:24:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Disk Drive In-Reply-To: <20030222153512.20114.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > I am looking for a 5 1/4" floppy drive for a TRS-80. > That's fine, but you still haven't provided the > specific information about WHICH TRS-80 you needed a > drive and cable for... He sent me a private post clarifying. He has a TRS-80 Model 1, and is looking for an ORIGINAL drive for it (external, with case, power supply, and cable). Preferably the original SA400 35 track. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 22 13:36:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <3E57B119.7090004@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > > If I write a PC emulator that runs on a real computer, does the computer > > become not real? > Or does my PDP-9 emulator running on my PC make IT 'a real computer'. I It significantly enhances its reality coefficient. But a REAL computer has casters, (or a forklift) A REAL computer dims the lights during power-up (for the NEIGHBORHOOD) A REAL computer attracts attention from the Fatherland Security. From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 22 13:45:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: Off-topic (John Allain: do not read) Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #472 - 25 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030222182444.83243.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > And you are also one of the people who think America > > is the one who should make the rules for everyone. > > *sigh* *shakes head* > > > > This country does many things of which I am ashamed. > > Anyone whose told me otherwise have never come up > > with any proof. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > Based on the off-list conversation we had, it's much > more likely you decided not to listen to the proof... Based on the off-list exchanges we had, your "proof" was most likely merely jingoistic non-sequiturs that Sridhar would have probably found as stupid as I did. > But, how can you quibble with the concept that it's wrong for a county > to attack it's neighbors, or to build up offensive weapons? Look, every time you open your mouth you contradict yourself. When will you realize that everything you ascribe as the reasons for which we want to go to Iraq, the US has committed the same? Are you seriously this dense? > It's the same in international affairs, personal affairs and in raising > children... > > When you make a threat, or set a condition upon behavior, you have to > follow through with the penalty when the wrong behavior happens. > Otherwise, you teach that person (and others) that rules, threats and > responsibility are meaningless... This is typical of the mindset of control freaks: everyone else is a child and must be punished if they don't do as we tell them. I consider this deviant psychological behavior. > Nobody wants war, but in case such as this... This war will prevent the > deaths of millions. Not only by Iraq and Hussein, but by others in the > future who will take this example to embolden themselves to do evil > without fear of retribution. Contradiction. > Putting attention on the U.S. or President Bush is wrong. That's > focusing on the wrong end of the situation. No it's not. It's in our power to change our President's ill pursuits because we elected the bastard and we can take him down. He's OUR servant, and our problem. Saddam Hussein is someone else's tyrant, not outs. > Why aren't there protests calling for all police forces to be disbanded? > Using the same arguments that people are using against this war, if the > police didn't carry guns or shoot criminals committing acts of crime, > why... There'd be a lot less death in the world. Simple: we are not the police force of the world. Of course, logic eludes you, Al. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 22 13:49:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: More sarcasm??? (Was: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #472 - 25 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030222182444.83243.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Once again, IS THIS A JOKE? > I've never said the the U.S.A. should make the rules. > But, how can you quibble with the concept that it's > wrong for a county to attack it's neighbors, or to > build up offensive weapons? Who is currently planning to attack other countries? Who has the largest buildup of weapons? (are there weapons that aren't offensive?) (even a PC is offensive to some people) > Or, to defy the United Nations when they order you to > disarm? Who is planning to attack somebody else in defiance of the UN? > The only way the U.S. figures into all of this, is > that it has the backbone that the U.N. does not have. > The backbone to back up it's own resolutions. The backbone to defy the UN? > Saddam Hussein can avoid the war in a minute. He > simply can abide by the U.N. agreements, disarm > himself of the illegal weapons and technology, and > dedicate himself to making a good life for his > countrie's citizens. He CLAIMS to be doing EXACTLY that. We don't BELIEVE him, but, ... what burden of proof is called for? > How can anyone disagree that what he is doing is sheer > madness? The guy can't live without fear of > assasination... Neither can live without fear of assasination. > His life must be desperate and awful. And all by his > own choice... Bush? or Saddam? > Just let the criminals alone.... > In fact, how wonderful would it be for all the prisons > to be empty, and the courts to have nothing to do... > It's all the fault of those crazy police who capture > criminals for the fun of it. Because they LOVE to > shoot and hurt people... So,.. Is your whole post a sarcastic joke, or not? From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 22 13:52:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #472 - 25 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030222184445.XHQ19204.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: > Because in most countries the police require proof before an arrest and then > there is a trial before an execution. The police do not stop you on the > street demand proof of your innocence claim you are lying and shoot you. So far. But what about the "Patriot Act"s? From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 22 14:00:01 2003 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:11 2005 Subject: KIM-1 - loking for replacement keypad ( References: <20030222173532.2363.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <3E57C79F.4020902@cox.net> Message-ID: <00d101c2daac$6cce88a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> I have an original functional KIM-1, but the keypad has been replaced with a clunky array of large keyswitches. My KIM-1 came from a university first year lab, so I guess the original keypad lasted about two weeks. Anyone know what the original part number and source was and if these are available anywhere? ;) I know it's a long shot- but I want to restore the unit to original condition for a museum. regards, Heinz From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 22 14:11:01 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #472 - 25 msgs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030222200740.QVVQ12769.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Saturday 22 February 2003 14:48, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Because in most countries the police require proof before an arrest and > > then there is a trial before an execution. The police do not stop you on > > the street demand proof of your innocence claim you are lying and shoot > > you. > > So far. > But what about the "Patriot Act"s? I should have qualified that as most free and democratic countires. From spc at conman.org Sat Feb 22 14:19:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: <3E5717E1.6010208@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Feb 22, 2003 01:25:37 AM Message-ID: <200302222015.PAA19758@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Chad Fernandez once stated: > > > 1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the revolutionary Cuban government > > at the Bay of Pigs. > > This ones interests me...... are you saying Cuba is better off, now that > Castro is in power, and we shouldn't have tried to prevent that? After Castro diposed Batista he then turned to the US for help and recognition. But since the US at the time suported Batista's regime (dictator that he was) and Castro's little coop pissed off monied interests here in the states, the official US response was to ignore him. So he turned to the only other global power at the time ... -spc (We also promised a free Viet-Nam to Ho Chi Mihn, but helped France keep control after World War II, for all the good *that* did us. Sometimes I think our government doesn't learn from its own mistakes ... ) From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 22 14:31:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030222110725.021b20f0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: > > >> 3) Is it documented? The PC (that means 5150!) was significantly better documented than any of the other microcomputers being sold retail to the general public at the time. (conveniently excluding guvmint, industrial, and institutional sales :-) The "PC Technical Reference Manual" was cheap, and contained complete schematics and source code for the BIOS. Third party "disassemblies" being sold by third parties are NOT comparable! Apple, Atari, Commodore, Radio Shack, etc. had documentation, but not comparable. How many CP/M machines provided both schematics and source code? From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 22 14:37:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: <200302222015.PAA19758@conman.org> Message-ID: It was thus said that the Great Chad Fernandez once stated: > > 1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the revolutionary Cuban government > > at the Bay of Pigs. > This ones interests me...... are you saying Cuba is better off, now that > Castro is in power, and we shouldn't have tried to prevent that? The Bay of Pigs was WAY too late to be interpreted as "prevent that". It was an invasion LONG after Castro was firmly in power. It becomes an issue of whether or not it is legitimate to invade and overthrow (or conquer) countries that are ruled by leaders that we don't approve of. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Feb 22 14:53:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: References: <3E5717E1.6010208@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030222154045.06358a70@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Sridhar, > We shouldn't have tried to prevent it because it's none of our business. > I think Cuba is worse off with Castro, but it just simply isn't our place > to change that. That is for the people of Cuba to do. We were genuinely worried about Castro's wanting to have nukes only 90 miles offshore of the US mainland. Right or wrong, it was a real danger we wanted not to have happen. Best Regards At 01:38 AM 2/22/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > So your basically an isolationist, then? Sounds like many of the people > > here are. > >If by isolationist you mean that I believe we shouldn't be projecting our >collective penis into everyone else's affairs, then yes, I am an >isolationist. However, I don't believe that's the proper meaning of the >term. > > > I don't know much about many of items on your list, However. > > > > > 1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the revolutionary Cuban > > > government at the Bay of Pigs. > > > > This ones interests me...... are you saying Cuba is better off, now that > > Castro is in power, and we shouldn't have tried to prevent that? > >We shouldn't have tried to prevent it because it's none of our business. >I think Cuba is worse off with Castro, but it just simply isn't our place >to change that. That is for the people of Cuba to do. > >Peace... Sridhar From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Feb 22 14:55:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: Political Rants and Other BS In-Reply-To: <3E579080.9050603@eoni.com> References: <3E5705C1.6050401@charter.net> <1727766958.20030222031227@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030222155032.06363ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Jim, > We haven't got to name calling yet. And it is mildly amusing. I think we just got there. Best Regards At 07:00 AM 2/22/03 -0800, you wrote: >Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > >>Note: I personally dislike the recent OT spats, but I don't feel that it is >>appropriate for me to request that they stop. That's Jay's responsibility if >>he so desires. > >We haven't got to name calling yet. And it is mildly amusing. > >Jim > >-- >If there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the person. >If there is beauty in the person, there will be harmony in the house. >If there is harmony in the house, there will be order in the nation. >If there is order in the nation, there will be peace in the world. >~ Chinese Proverb ~ From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 22 15:01:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: CNN reveals real reason for Columbia crash Message-ID: > http://www.decodesystems.com/cnn-columbia.jpg Wouldn't it be rather dangerous to fly at that speed in the atmosphere of a planet? From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Sat Feb 22 15:01:43 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: Hp-85 consumables source Message-ID: Hello, Does anyone know of any web sources for thermal printer paper or new magnetic data tapes for the HP-85 other then eBay? Thanks, Bob From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 22 15:09:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030222154045.06358a70@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: > > 1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the revolutionary Cuban > > government at the Bay of Pigs. > > We shouldn't have tried to prevent it because it's none of ourbusiness. > > I think Cuba is worse off with Castro, but it just simply isn't our place > > to change that. That is for the people of Cuba to do. On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > We were genuinely worried about Castro's wanting to have nukes only > 90 miles offshore of the US mainland. Right or wrong, it was a real danger > we wanted not to have happen. The "Bay of Pigs" was NOT the "Cuban Missile Crisis" That happened later. At the time of the "Bay of Pigs", missiles were NOT an issue. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Feb 22 15:16:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #472 - 25 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030222184445.XHQ19204.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> References: <20030222182444.83243.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> <20030222182444.83243.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030222155212.06364ba0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Mike, There are a lot of ideas that are very good in theory, but in the actual execution of, get bogged down in complexities. > So then why not demand that all countires with weapons of mass destruction > disarm? Why not start with those that have actually used them in the past. But the question arises of who goes first. The SALT talks and treaties did reduce the number, but it would take everyone to simultaneously gradually disarm. No one country would want to allow itself to be completely vulnerable. But some one or more countries would probably secretly keep more than they disclosed, so the results would always be limited. Best Regards At 01:41 PM 2/22/03 -0500, you wrote: > > Nobody wants war, but in case such as this... This war > > will prevent the deaths of millions. Not only by Iraq > > and Hussein, but by others in the future who will take > > this example to embolden themselves to do evil without > > fear of retribution. > >So then why not demand that all countires with weapons of mass destruction >disarm? >Why not start with those that have actually used them in the past. > > > The penalty for breaking laws and rules must be swift > > and predictable. That's the only way for there to be a > > deterrent. > >And not applied randomly. There are many other UN sanctions that are being >ignored or have been vetoed. > > > Saddam Hussein can avoid the war in a minute. He > > simply can abide by the U.N. agreements, disarm > > himself of the illegal weapons and technology, and > > dedicate himself to making a good life for his > > countrie's citizens. > >He claims to have done just that and the arms inspectors have not been able >to find anything. If the US has been concealing the evidence of this then >they are as guilty as he is. > > > > Why aren't there protests calling for all police > > forces to be disbanded? Using the same arguments that > > people are using against this war, if the police > > didn't carry guns or shoot criminals committing acts > > of crime, why... There'd be a lot less death in the > > world. > >Because in most countries the police require proof before an arrest and then >there is a trial before an execution. The police do not stop you on the >street demand proof of your innocence claim you are lying and shoot you. From kth at srv.net Sat Feb 22 15:16:43 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? References: Message-ID: <3E57ED88.7060106@srv.net> Tony Duell wrote: >>>Look at the flyback transformer. That is the ceramic thing with the thick >>>wire attaching to the CRT tube. Does it have a crack around it with >>>hardened "ooze" coming out of it? >>> >>> >>Will look when I get home. I don't remember there being a wire that went >>from the PS board to the tube, other than ground straps from the cage >> >> > >The flyback is on the main logic board in these terminals. The PSU is >just the 'low voltage' supplies. > > > >>>90% of the time the vt320's fail, it is this transformer shorting out, which >>> >>> > >I would put it at closer to 98% :-) Those transformers are really unreliable. > > > >>>takes the horozontal transistor(?) with it. It heats up, cracking open, and >>> >>> > >Not always. I've had VT3xx's where the transistor was not defective (but >the flyback certainly was!) > > > >>>spewing out it's magic ooze. If this is the case, you can replace both of >>>these parts, and it will work again. DEC used some really crappy flyback >>>transformers in these things. >>> >>> >>Is that transistor on the PS board as well? If so, why does the PS board >>appear to work "unloaded"? >> >> > >No, all the deflection circuit parts are on the main logic board. > > > >>If that's the fault, are the scorch marks under the blue resistors normally >>there, or unrelated? >> >> >> >>>However, it would probably be cheaper just to replace the whole terminal >>>in that case. The transformer will probably cost at least $30.00, and the >>>transistor around $5.00. Then comes the fun part of trying to extract >>>and replace them without destroying the circuit board. >>> >>> > >Oh come on. Those parts are not difficult to desolder without damage. Or >at least I've never had any problems doing so. > Many of the ones I had to repair had been left on for a long time in that condition (...mumble...customers...), and had often burnt the curcuit board, enough to cause the copper to come loose from the fiberglass backing (delaminate?). Removing the components on these, without losing a lot of the copper was a major pain. Sometimes, though, I was lucky and it wasn't too badly fried, and wasn't too hard to fix (just needed a good, hot iron for the flyback), but usually they waited a couple of days before complaining that their "computer" wasn't working, and it had a nasty smell, and smoke was coming out of it (and should they turn it off?). >The transistor is a standard part (I forget just what it is, but a good >TV spares place would have one). The transformer is non-trivial to find, >AFAIK DEC never supplied them as a spare part. I believe there are 3rd >party replacements for it, but I can't remember where to get them. > > I usually replaced it anyway, since I didn't really trust it after what it had just gone through, and I had the thing disassembled anyway. I got the transistors from Radio Shack (special order), but the transformer cost me $35 to $40 from the one place I could find them. At the time, it was cheaper than a new VT320, but I don't think that is true any more, especially if you have to add labor to the cost. From kth at srv.net Sat Feb 22 15:34:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? References: Message-ID: <3E57F1AE.3020009@srv.net> Mark Tapley wrote: >Will check the flyback xformer, and rip it off the board (OK, I'll desolder >it...) if it looks guilty. Probably will take the HOT, if I can identify it >unambiguously, as well. Then it's back to the parts-shopping game. Sigh. > > > >>>If that's the fault, are the scorch marks under the blue resistors normally >>>there, or unrelated? >>> >>> > >Still curious about this. The scorch marks make me nervous - can or should >I try to heat-sink at least the resistor with the bad scorches around it? > > It's probably normal. If you want intresting burn marks, look at the LA210, which would discolor a large area of the case above the power supply. Customers always asked me if that was normal. I think a lot of the DEC terminal/printer stuff left scortch marks somewhere. >Also, what if anything should I do about the rusting smaller transformer on >the PS board? > > Sounds like someone spilled something liquid into the terminal at some point. Heat + liquid + wire = Instant Rust. If you just want to use the terminal, I wouldn't bother. More likely to break something than any cleanup would fix. If you want something for people to look at, then you might be concerned. I'd only be bothered about it if it was too excessive, then I'd try scraping off the excess with a knife, or probably just swap in another power supply from a "dead" one (which I usually had a couple of). After the flyback, I had problems with badly scratched picture tubes, and dead tubes. I still don't know how they could scratch them up so badly. If it were a vt420, after the flyback (probably from the same compny) I'd look at one of the cables going from the CRT to the main board. The contacts would heat up, and either burn the connector out, or weld it to the motherboard. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 22 15:40:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Feb 21, 3 11:12:04 pm Message-ID: > > PC: no, you throw away a subsystem and get a replacement. The > > problem here is that any given subsystem (e.g., a video card) is > > only on the market for maybe two years; after that you can't get > > an identical replacement. Original-spec PDP-8 replacement parts > > were available for over 20 years. > > While not quite the same as 20 years, you *can* still get identical, > new, many year old 'replacement' parts for PCs. It's probably easier to Can you? What about : 30 pin SIMMs and/or SIPPs (I've not seen those listed for several years) MDA, CGA, EGA monitors and video cards (I don't see why I should have to replace both monitor and card, and re-write low-level software just because a simple chip has failed!) ST506/ST412 interfaced hard disks and controllers PC/XT compatible keyboards. Heck, _any_ useful 8 bit ISA card 5.25" floppy drives And that's just the stuff that's relatively standard. There were many 'odd', custom-ish interface cards, etc that were totally undocumented and which are now impossible to replace and very difficult to maintain. > One thing I'm slightly suprised about is that you're not claiming that > it's easy to service 'real computers' at the component level. Of course, That is one definition of 'real computer' that I sometimes use :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 22 15:42:11 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <20030222064030.94784.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> from "evan" at Feb 21, 3 10:40:30 pm Message-ID: > If you don't want to use mere programmability as the > line between a calculator and a computer, then One 'working definition' that is commonly used for a (digital, electronic) computer is that it is user-programmable. That is to say the user can write a list of instructions that are then executed automatically. The calculators we're considering have this feature (the HP65, IIRC, will remember 100 'program steps' (essentially functions from the calculator keyboard) and will then execute them. There are unconditional and conditional branches, which means you can have loops). There were earlier non-programmable pocket calculators, but I don't class those as computers (even though the HP35 had the same CPU architecture as the HP65, and ran an intenral firmware program to make it act as a calculator -- it wasn't hardwaired logic. But it wasn't _user_ programmable). > consider display features. The TI-58, in 1978, was > the first to display letters, not just numbers. The > catch was, it could print them on a printer, but not Hackers managed to get a few words displayed on the HP67 using non-normallised numbers... IIRC, the 16 values for a nybble all displayed _something_. 0-9 were obvious, I think the letters for 'Error' were there ,and a few others. There were some magnetic cards that did the rounds of the user clubs with non-normalised numbers on them to display 'interesting' messages. > on its own screen. The HP-41C, in 1979, was the first > that could display letters natively. It also had > removable storage, which third-party companies > actually sold applications on. The TI58/TI59 took plug-in ROM modules too. And of course HP calculators back to the HP65 could read magnetic cards. I know HP sold Program Pacs (sic) of pre-recorded cards for these machines, I suspect 3rd parties did too. > Yet another twist is those primitive handheld sports > games from Mattel, etc. Those debuted in the > mid-1970s. I would NOT call them PDAs, since they > only had entertainment functions, not "assistant" > functions. But if you choose to consider a calculator > as a portable computer, then why not a game too? The difference is that the calculator is user-programmable, the game is not. In other words, you can run games programs on the HP65 and HP67 (HP sold a games Pac and a couple of solution books for the HP67). You can't run mathematical programs on the game. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 22 15:45:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030222110725.021b20f0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Feb 22, 3 11:25:33 am Message-ID: > Rumor has it that Philip Pemberton may have mentioned these words: > >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > >> 1) Is it well-engineered from the ground up? > > >> PCs: no, a lot of the stuff in even the best PCs is of very poor > > > OK, I agree with this first point. All three of my examples of 'real > > > computers' were "well-engineered from the ground up". > >I agree with you here - my PCs all have crap cases. Even the top-end > >Coolermaster or whatever cases are still (allegedly) cheaply made. Even the > >ones that cost $150! > > Let's look at 3 test-cases: > 1) My dual Athlon 1600+ - Aluminium server case, 460W bulletproof PS, > built-in SCSI, LAN, yaddayadda... I'd call it a real computer, but most > here wouldn't.... My cost: $85 shipped sans PS. Light, not built like a > tank, but how many tanks have you seen, built out of aluminium? ;-P > > 2) My CoCo3 - Cheezy plastic case, miniscule PS, minimal expandability - > crap. ;-) 15 years ago, my CoCo 3 had 4 serial ports, a bidirectional parallel port, and was running a multi-tasking OS. At the same time I had great problems getting a PC to properly support 4 serial ports. > > 3) My wife's main machine: Compaq Prolaint 800 dual Pentium 2 350 server. > Case built like a tank (almost 2x heavier than my Dual Athlon) - won't even > boot if it can't find it's fans, IIRC a 700W PS, etc. Generally > bulletproof. -- it's well on it's way for being almost ontopic, methinks... > it's quite old already, for a PC... > > > >> 2) Can it be expected to have a long operating life? > > 1) Yes. I built it; I can fix it. You have proper service data for all the parts in that PC? I am truely amazed (I thought I was about the only person to have that ;-)). Or does 'built' really mean 'assembled from cards'? > 2) Yes. I have one going on 17 years old. (Even tho it's crap!) I still > play Rogue on it -- I Love that game! (The PC version sucks.) > 3) Not just yes, hell yes! I haev tired and failed several times to get service data for Compaq machines.... How did you manage it? > > > >> 3) Is it documented? > > 1) Dunno, don't care. damn thing runs, don't it? Why do I need to solder > Athlons, anyway??? Ah, there's the first difference. I am not always prepared to accept somebody else's ideas of what I need in a computer. Most of the PCBs in my PC have home-made mods done to them... > 2) Not just no, hell no! The GIME chip is a mystery... and it's the chip > that makes everything tick. Come on. The GIME is a lot better documented than the ASICs in most PCs. The CoCo 3 service manaul, available to anyone who called up National Parts and ordered one, contains a pinout, block diagram, waveforms, register allocations, etc. When the CoCo 3 was in production, replacement GIMEs were easy to get (not that I ever needed one). Just try getting spares for most PC products today. > 3) Better than most PCs out there, and it's available free... Please point me to a free schematic for any Compaq computer... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 22 15:47:11 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <1371284416.20030222092811@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Feb 22, 3 09:28:11 am Message-ID: > If I write a PC emulator that runs on a real computer, does the computer > become not real? No, and conversely, if you run a real-computer-emulator on a PC, the PC does not become real. -tony From kth at srv.net Sat Feb 22 15:55:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: OT - was Let the witch trials... now oil References: <200302220252.VAA07274@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3E57F694.3000300@srv.net> Bryan Pope wrote: >And thusly Matthew Sell spake: > > >>It certainly is nice to only have one political party in this Nation. >> >> > >What other political parties do we have?! Lately the Dems = Repubs... > > > You must be kidding. Just listen for the keywords, and you can easily tell them apart. Dem's are all about talking points. whine...whine...war for oil...whine...whine...can't cut taxes... whine...whine...SUV's...whine...whine...gravitas...whine...whine... we don't want to make Sadam angry...whine...whine... rigged elections...whine...whine...alien abductions...whine...whine... didn't...have...inappropiate...whine...whine... ...Now, can this stupid thread end? From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 22 16:06:00 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? In-Reply-To: <3E57F1AE.3020009@srv.net> Message-ID: <20030222220239.UYCW7091.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > After the flyback, I had problems with badly scratched picture tubes, > and dead tubes. I still don't know how they could scratch them up so > badly. Easy. Pinheads would put any CRTs face down on any dirty floor or pavement and grind it around. Just a slight move same thing. Even two CRTs facing each other and touching while jousling either one have same effect. Cheers, Wizard From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 22 16:08:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: OT - was Let the witch trials... now oil In-Reply-To: <3E57F694.3000300@srv.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > You must be kidding. Just listen for the keywords, and you can easily > tell them apart. Dem's are all about talking points. > whine...whine...war for oil...whine...whine...can't cut taxes... > whine...whine...SUV's...whine...whine...gravitas...whine...whine... > we don't want to make Sadam angry...whine...whine... > rigged elections...whine...whine...alien abductions...whine...whine... > didn't...have...inappropiate...whine...whine... > > ...Now, can this stupid thread end? Disunirregardless of whether it may be correct or not, an attack does NOT end a stupid thread, nor a war. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 22 16:15:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Feb 22, 3 12:27:29 pm Message-ID: > > > >> 3) Is it documented? > > The PC (that means 5150!) was significantly better documented > than any of the other microcomputers being sold retail to the The TechRef was certainly a wonderfully useful manual (why do you think I guard my set with my life :-)) but at the time many other machines had similarly useful documentation... > general public at the time. (conveniently excluding guvmint, > industrial, and institutional sales :-) > > The "PC Technical Reference Manual" was cheap, and contained > complete schematics and source code for the BIOS. Third party > "disassemblies" being sold by third parties are NOT comparable! > > Apple, Atari, Commodore, Radio Shack, etc. had documentation, Hmm.. Radio Shack would sell you a service manaul or technical manual for every one of their computer products (I ordered things like the Model 1 video display service manual). Without exception these manuals contained full schematics and parts lists. Radio Shack did not publish the source to their BIOS though :-( There were 3rd party disassemblies, but they were not that good... A few years ago I spotted a hard-backed book in a normal bookshop (I think the publisher was Addison Wesley) entitled 'The Apple //e Techincal Reference Manual'. It contains full schematics of the //e mainboard and the BIOS source listings. Of course I bought it, even though I am not an 'apple' person. I assume this book was on gneral sale to anyone who wanted it > but not comparable. How many CP/M machines provided both > schematics and source code? THey seemed to be available for most CP/M machines that I came across. Certainly the QX10 had a full hardware manual (I have it), which makes reference to a software manual that I don't have. The RML machines had schematics and ROM source available. -tony From kth at srv.net Sat Feb 22 16:22:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? References: <20030222220239.UYCW7091.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3E57FCE0.20105@srv.net> jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: >>After the flyback, I had problems with badly scratched picture tubes, >>and dead tubes. I still don't know how they could scratch them up so >>badly. >> >> > >Easy. Pinheads would put any CRTs face down on any dirty floor or >pavement and grind it around. Just a slight move same thing. Even >two CRTs facing each other and touching while jousling either one >have same effect. > > > Some of them were scratched about halfway through the glass, in a single long streak. If it was always one customer doing it, I could assume a royal idiot, but these came from multiple businesses. I don't know how they gouged it so deeply, without breaking the tube entirely. They just wanted them replaced because the scratch made it hard to read in that area. It's not something I'd like to have sitting a few feet from by face anyway. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 22 17:02:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: 'Real Computers' (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: References: <4568.4.20.168.204.1045869002.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <33076.66.77.210.18.1045954708.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: >> Even if it's the dual Athlon XP 1900 running Red Hat 8 which I use for >> most of my software development. There's no question that it has >> orders of magnitude more computing power, memory, and disk, but that's >> not part of my criteria for "real computer": Patrick Finnegan wrote: > OK, I've got a few problems with this. Personally, I think you're > confusing the terms 'vintage' or 'classic' and 'real' mostly. For > reference, I'll use three computers. One very new - an IBM p690 > "Regatta" system, a 'just classic' machine ~10-11 y.o.- an IBM RS/6000 > model 520, and a fairly classic machine - an IBM System/36. I've used > both the p690 and the 520, and sort-of-used a System/36. I'm not sure why you "have a few problems with this". All three of those machines meet three out of four of my criteria for being considered "real computers", whereas PCs meet none of them. From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sat Feb 22 17:51:00 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: New goodie - Solid State Disk Message-ID: I received my EMC2 Orion SSD today... I have to say I'm impressed, it definately is what we'd considering "Enterprise" these days... The unit is, according to its manuals, 31.4" x 33.3" x 11.5", and weighs roughly 275lbs. The Orion has some nine slots in what looks like (but isn't) a full-size 3-connector VME bus cardcage. It has one "Director" (controller) card, and five 64MB memory cards installed (320MB). In the rear of the unit is one Maxtor 320MB SCSI disk, for offline backup, and two sealed lead-acid batteries (So that in an emergency power off situation the unit can back itself up to the internal SCSI disk and not lose data). Pictures are available: http://www.kiwigeek.com/hjp/comps/emc2_orion.html Now all I need is an IBM that can read from a IBM 3370/3380 DASD - which is what the Orion emulates... JP From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 22 18:10:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > The PC (that means 5150!) was significantly better documented > than any of the other microcomputers being sold retail to the > general public at the time. (conveniently excluding guvmint, > industrial, and institutional sales :-) > > The "PC Technical Reference Manual" was cheap, and contained > complete schematics and source code for the BIOS. Third party > "disassemblies" being sold by third parties are NOT comparable! > > Apple, Atari, Commodore, Radio Shack, etc. had documentation, > but not comparable. How many CP/M machines provided both > schematics and source code? Fred, all the machines you mention (Apple, Atari, Commodore, Radio Shack) included schematics and ROM source code listings with their machines, or at least the machines that were contemporary with the IBM PC. Well, the Radio Shack might be the exception, as I believe you had to specially order them. But I know that the Apple ][ Users Manual had a complete schematic, description, and ROM source listings, and it came with every Apple ][ and ][+. With the //e you had to order those volumes separately. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 22 18:13:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: Castro (John Allain should not read) was Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030222154045.06358a70@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > Hello Sridhar, > > > We shouldn't have tried to prevent it because it's none of our business. > > I think Cuba is worse off with Castro, but it just simply isn't our place > > to change that. That is for the people of Cuba to do. > > We were genuinely worried about Castro's wanting to have nukes only > 90 miles offshore of the US mainland. Right or wrong, it was a real danger > we wanted not to have happen. But of course now we know that Castro did not want nukes in Cuba. If I am remembering the story correctly, he didn't even know the Soviets were bringing them in until they were on the island. But of course that's neither here nor there. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Sat Feb 22 18:24:01 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: Where has dbit gone? Message-ID: <01c101c2dad1$6fc5f6e0$8a00a8c0@arctura> I can't reach www.dbit.com, home of the Ersatz-11 (E11) PDP-11 emulator by John Wilson. Has this gone away? -- Jonathan Engdahl From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Feb 22 18:26:02 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: New Find Today An AMSTRAD Message-ID: <018e01c2dad1$aad9b690$5909dd40@oemcomputer> My wife talked me into stopping at a thrift today and in the electrical area under some stuff I found a Amstrad PPC640. Not able to test it yet not enough "C" batteries. :-( From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sat Feb 22 18:39:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: large disk platters? References: <20030220180001.20389.92021.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <3E55538A.D73AD064@eagle.ca> <2864.4.20.168.204.1045783535.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <0afd01c2dad3$9316e120$0101a8c0@athlon> I scrapped an old key-to-tape system some years ago-lots of useful stuff. Magnificent takeup/rewind motors on the tape decks (old Cypher units) -still have a few spare- they'll run on anything from about 4 volts DC up to the rated 36. But I digress-- Star of the show was the hard disk buffer- an old General Instruments unit-had a 14 inch platter about a quarter inch thick coated with some nickel-cobalt alloy- and it spun at 3600 rpm driven by an induction motor powered by the normal AC mains. Sounded like a jet engine when running up.. Total storage of just over a megabyte IIRC. I still have the platter- makes a damn fine gong! DaveB CH CH, NZ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Feb 22 19:00:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: Century Data Systems (tape drive?) exerciser In-Reply-To: <200302220434.h1M4YisQ015962@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030222194452.3b777272@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:34 PM 2/21/03 -0800, Al wrote: >> It's marked T2000B Exerciser. > >It is for the T series disc drives (T40 -> T300) > >Not of much use unless you have one of these. Did you get the whole suitcase >or just the T2000 ? No, I just got the T2000. It's a metal box about 8 x 11" and 2" thick. It has two ribbon cables coming out of it but the connectors have been cut off the other ends. Joe From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Sat Feb 22 19:03:00 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP References: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> Message-ID: <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura> I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve my method, let me know. http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP "Teach a man to fish..." -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christos Papachristou" To: Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a RQDX1 > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to installing > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone version of > zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be downloaded > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a version > of zrqb or something similar? From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Feb 22 20:07:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: OT - was Let the witch trials... now oil In-Reply-To: <3E57F694.3000300@srv.net> References: <200302220252.VAA07274@wordstock.com> <3E57F694.3000300@srv.net> Message-ID: <20030223023023.GI12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Kevin Handy, from writings of Sat, Feb 22, 2003 at 03:15:48PM -0700: > >And thusly Matthew Sell spake: > >What other political parties do we have?! Lately the Dems = Repubs... Yes, it sure seems like that... both seem to attract more than their fair share of corrupt dimwits who like nothing better than to overtax, overspend, pass ridiculous laws, line their own pockets and do political favors for $pecial interest$, etc. > You must be kidding. Just listen for the keywords, and you can easily > tell them apart. Dem's are all about talking points. I doubt that either party truly represents what most American citizens want, particularly those citizens who bother to engage in an activity known as thinking. Most people, it appears, are usually stuck with making a choice between two undesirable candidates, and all they can do is vote for whomever appears to be the lesser of two evils. > whine...whine...war for oil...whine...whine...can't cut taxes... > whine...whine...SUV's...whine...whine...gravitas...whine...whine... > we don't want to make Sadam angry...whine...whine... > rigged elections...whine...whine...alien abductions...whine...whine... > didn't...have...inappropiate...whine...whine... Did you ever consider that one can be for huge tax cuts and huge spending cuts, against the war against Iraq, for big cars if people want them (if overpopulation wasn't the problem it is, big cars wouldn't be a problem at all... let the people with huge families be the ones to cut back on energy usage; besides, selling people new cars every year or three is more harmful to the environment than keeping large old cars for many years), for a child tax (to stop overpopulation), against reckless environmental destruction, against needless government regulations and bureaucracy, for a ban on most new land development, for the separation of church and state, for freedom of speech, for property rights (but opposed to land development), against political correctness, for more use of alternative energy sources, etc? The point that I'm trying to make is that political parties don't represent thinking individuals who can have different views on different issues, whatever their views are. Non-thinking 'droids just go along with what some political party stands for on all of the so-called "issues." Hence, the average supporters of both parties are intellectually equivalent, are they not? > ...Now, can this stupid thread end? Now, can you stop making stupid remarks? ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Feb 22 20:54:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: Sarcasm In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030222112521.02ba6108@127.0.0.1> References: Message-ID: <3E57E35C.21603.1A3A07C@localhost> I didn't. I simply thought you were the typical heavily indoctrinated military person. Necessary if you are to have blindly obedient soldiers. I had a brother who wound up a major following his participation in the 2nd WW and mellowed out as he got older and a nephew-in-law who wound up a colonel and still hasn't recovered. After that conditioning it's difficult to regain independent thought. Lawrence On 22 Feb 2003, , Matthew Sell wrote: > Mine, too. > > In case nobody noticed..... > > > : ) > > > - Matt > > > > At 08:18 PM 2/21/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > > I can no longer tell which of the political posts are > > > serious, and which are sarcasm. > > > > > > Maybe THAT is when it's time to stop? > > > >All my messages are seriously sarcastic ;) > > > >-- > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > >Festival > >----------------------------------------------------------- > >------------------- International Man of Intrigue and > >Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > Matthew Sell > Programmer > On Time Support, Inc. > www.ontimesupport.com > (281) 296-6066 > > Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! > http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Feb 22 20:54:50 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #470 - 52 msgs In-Reply-To: <3E571154.8060003@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3E57E35C.19453.1A3A04F@localhost> Well, I was trying to be good and not pique the ire of my neighbors to the south in my mother's and wife's birthplace, but I find I can't hold my peace at the incredible amount of BS, most of which is parroting the Bush administrations lies and more damnedable lies. The list you quote from is of course only a partial list. It doesn't mention the US role in the genecide of tens of thousands of Guatamalan indigenous people in the 80s, earlier massacres in northern Brazil to pave the way for Rockefeller oil explorations, it's establishment of the infamous "School of the Americas" which trained most of S.A.'s secret police and heads of death squads, it's long time support of the viscious Papa Doc Duvalier of Haiti, and later intrigues against it's democratically elected leader, it's recent role in supporting the aborted coup against Venezuela's Chavez which was reversed by peoples outrage several days later, and a multitude of others designed to maintain US hegemony (the Monroe Doctrine) over Latin America for the benefit of United Fruit and the US banks. It gets much worse in other parts of the world including such things as US support of the Suharto regimes takeover in Indonesia which resulted in the genocide of 500,000 Javanese in a period of a couple of months. The list of US client states is like a whos-who of the most tyrannical regimes in world history. I've found the american people on the other hand, among the friendliest and warmest I know, despite the occasional "Ugly American" big bucks lout but like most others shake my head at their incredible political naivety. I was no big fan of Eisenhauer (also a Republican) but at least he was honest about why the US was playing a military role in the far east, and on his departure warned the US peoples about the growing danger of the US Military-Industrial complex. Lawrence On 21 Feb 2003, , Jim Arnott wrote: > Al Hartman wrote: > > > But, this time we will take Hussein out of power and > > set the people in Iraq free. > > > Yup, set 'em free just like we do everywhere... > > We'll just mention the western hemisphere, but it really is > a global tendency we have. Setting people free... > > > A history of U.S. intervention in Latin America and the > Caribbean > > 1823: The Monroe Doctrine declares Latin America to be in > the United States "sphere of influence." > > 1846: The U.S. provokes war with Mexico and acquires half of > its territory, including Texas and California. > > 1855: U.S. adventurer William Walker invades Nicaragua with > a private army, declares himself president, and rules for 2 > years. > > 1898: The U.S. declares war on Spain and as a result annexes > Guam, Puerto Rico, the Philippines and Hawaii. > > 1901 : With the Platt Amendment, the U.S. declares its > unilateral right to intervene in Cuban affairs. > > 1903: The U.S. encourages Panama's independence from > Colombia in order to acquire the Panama Canal rights. > > 1905: The Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine > declares the U.S. to be the policeman of the Caribbean; the > Dominican Republic is placed under a customs receivership. > > 1912 : U.S. Marines invade Nicaragua and occupy the country > almost continuously until 1933. > > 1914: Mexican refusal to salute the U.S. flag provokes the > shelling of Veracruz by a U.S. battleship and the seizure of > parts of the city by U.S. Marines. > > 1933: U.S. Marines finally leave Nicaragua, but are replaced > by a well-trained and well-armed National Guard under the > control of Anastasio Somoza. > > 1954: The CIA engineers the overthrow of the > democratically-elected government of Guatemala; 30 years of > military dictatorship, repression, and violence follow. > > 1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the revolutionary > Cuban government at the Bay of Pigs. > > 1965: Johnson sends 22,000 troops to the Dominican Republic > to combat the constitutional forces trying to regain power. > > 1973: The CIA helps overthrow the democratic government of > Allende in Chile in favor of a bloody dictatorship. > > 1981: The Reagan Administration begins the contra war > against Nicaraguan civilians. > > 1983: The U.S. invades Grenada to overthrow a popular > government. > > 1989: The U.S. invades Panama to arrest accused drug dealer > Manual Noriega. > > 1990 : The U.S. intervenes in the Nicaraguan election > process through covert and overt means. > > > > Free at last. Free at last. Thank God Almighty, I'm free at > last. > > -- > If there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the > person. If there is beauty in the person, there will be > harmony in the house. If there is harmony in the house, > there will be order in the nation. If there is order in the > nation, there will be peace in the world. ~ Chinese Proverb > ~ lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Feb 22 20:55:32 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: OT - was Let the witch trials... now oil In-Reply-To: <3E57F694.3000300@srv.net> Message-ID: <3E57E35C.15662.1A3A0A4@localhost> Oh lord, another one who just thinks issues like a possibly horrendous war with multiple thousands of deaths, including American sons and brothers coming back in body bags, global warming that is affecting us now, a world hegemony that is dependant upon a new imperial power's response to corporate dictates and religious fundamentalism and the "homelands" response to this. To me "Democrats" or "Republicans" don't really mean "shit" and for that matter is out of step with the rest of the democratic world by not really identifying the positions. It's like the "Oscars" flavor of the year. So you can have a "Democrat like Faubus or an FDR, a Bush or a "liberal" Republican. All the same depending on who has been annointed by "big money". If you must comment from your limited intelligence at least actually address the issues or call for an end to political debate on the list. Which by the way includes many non-US posters, many of whom are simply shaking their heads in perplexety at US political naivety. I must say that the list has done itself proud and shown that there are many who do actually think, including some that I wouldn't have suspected of much critical thinking and others that I am fundamentally in disagreement with. Lawrence On 22 Feb 2003, , Kevin Handy wrote: > Bryan Pope wrote: > > >And thusly Matthew Sell spake: > > > > > >>It certainly is nice to only have one political party in > >>this Nation. > >> > >> > > > >What other political parties do we have?! Lately the Dems > >= Repubs... > > > > > > > > You must be kidding. Just listen for the keywords, and you > can easily tell them apart. Dem's are all about talking > points. > > whine...whine...war for oil...whine...whine...can't cut > taxes... > whine...whine...SUV's...whine...whine...gravitas...whine...w > hine... we don't want to make Sadam angry...whine...whine... > rigged elections...whine...whine...alien > abductions...whine...whine... > didn't...have...inappropiate...whine...whine... > > ...Now, can this stupid thread end? lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Feb 22 20:56:14 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: References: <3E57B119.7090004@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3E57E35C.15707.1A3A0CC@localhost> OK, that does it. I'm gonna trade all my micros in on a main frame. I want that notoriety !! And I can gut the second floor for headspace. Lawrence On 22 Feb 2003, , Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > But a REAL computer has casters, (or a forklift) > A REAL computer dims the lights during power-up (for the > NEIGHBORHOOD) A REAL computer attracts attention from the > Fatherland Security. lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Feb 22 21:13:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: "Digest" Subject posts Message-ID: <3E57E806.30853.1B5DA1C@localhost> Could the many who post from their digest downloads please put the subject in their replies ? This makes it much easier to use my delete button and not have to read the things I'm not interested in. I don't think that's too much to ask. I'm sure that would make Jay or Jeffries task much easier also. Not all of us receive in digest form. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Feb 22 21:22:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: power (ups) systems Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAEA@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, While rewiring the VAX Lab here, I found something weird is going on with the power usage on the network. First, some stats: UPS 1: 2400VA, mains load 220VAC (Compaq) UPS 2: 2200VA, mains load 220VAC (APC) All power is 220VAC, 50Hz, single phase. Regular European power, so to speak. No weirdness there. The Compaq UPS is connected to the Compaq servers and related (MicroWalt Corp) equipment. This is the PROD network. The APC (new in town) is for the VAX stuff and related equipment, and powers all of that. For now, an 4100, a 3100 and some hub/ router/DECserver et al equipment. Here comes the fun part. All this *used* to be on the Compaq UPS, and it was fine, just at 96% of its load. Now that things are split out... the compaq screams even *more* at me, even though its reported load is ~1650VA. My real question: These UPSes have 3 load segments each. On the Compaq, I currently use *2*. Is this the reason for its screaming? Does the total load come from the three segments? Call me stupid, this I cant figure it out. I probably should not be doing this at 4am :) Cheers, Fred From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Feb 22 21:28:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: Where has dbit gone? References: <01c101c2dad1$6fc5f6e0$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <036b01c2daeb$08080bf0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Engdahl" To: Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 6:20 PM Subject: Where has dbit gone? > I can't reach www.dbit.com, home of the Ersatz-11 (E11) PDP-11 emulator by > John Wilson. Has this gone away? > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl Good question - I noticed that it didn't respond a week or so ago, but thought it was something wrong here as I've had that problem before with sites and found that others could still access them. I sent John Wilson an email asking about the site. Stuart Johnson From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sat Feb 22 21:33:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: power (ups) systems In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAEA@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAEA@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <1045970987.30181.12.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Sat, 2003-02-22 at 22:18, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > My real question: > > These UPSes have 3 load segments each. On the Compaq, I currently > use *2*. Is this the reason for its screaming? Does the total > load come from the three segments? > Fred, I'm betting the Compaq UPS is rated for 800VA per load segment. If this is true, then that means you are trying to supply 1650VA from two segments, which are rated for a total of 1600VA. Try moving some of the load to the third segment and see what happens. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Feb 22 21:39:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: power (ups) systems Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAED@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hah! Now *that* is on-topic banter! :) *saving info for later* Thanks! --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher McNabb [mailto:cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net] > Sent: zondag 23 februari 2003 4:30 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: power (ups) systems > > > On Sat, 2003-02-22 at 22:18, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > My real question: > > > > These UPSes have 3 load segments each. On the Compaq, I currently > > use *2*. Is this the reason for its screaming? Does the total > > load come from the three segments? > > > > Fred, I'm betting the Compaq UPS is rated for 800VA per load segment. > If this is true, then that means you are trying to supply 1650VA from > two segments, which are rated for a total of 1600VA. Try > moving some of > the load to the third segment and see what happens. > > -- > Christopher L McNabb > Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net > Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N > GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Feb 22 21:40:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: DECserver 300 fun Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAEE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, Yeah, well... part of the fun was getting the consoles tied together using a DECserver 300. The thing works, boots, loads the software, and then... BANG. Dumps me into a very unwilling mode that just gives me a # prompt, and then wants me to guess. Anyone have the (pdf?) docs on this beast? I assumed it would be a thing similar to the 200, but oh, was i wrong... --f From alhartman at yahoo.com Sat Feb 22 22:00:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030223025400.33630.19684.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030223035620.4788.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> > From: Mike > > So then why not demand that all countires with > weapons of mass destruction disarm? Because none of those countries attacked three of it's neighbors using them, were forcibly expelled from a neigboring country and agreed to disarm as part of the surrender agreement. We have not picked Iraq out a hat to disarm them. They asked to be disarmed when they used their weapons against their neighbors AND their own people (Northern Kurds). > Why not start with those that have actually used > them in the past. Name some... And I mean a country that has used WoMD in an offensive manner without provocation. > And not applied randomly. There are many other UN > sanctions that are being ignored or have been > vetoed. Not that are on the same level as the one Iraq is flouting. > He claims to have done just that and the arms > inspectors have not been able to find anything. > If the US has been concealing the evidence of this > then they are as guilty as he is. Did you not listen to the same presentation of Hans Blix that I did? He stated that not only did they find things, they found more things than Iraq reported. They found Iraq had developed weapons with a greater range, and in amounts in excess of the agreements. What is stunning for any intelligent person, is that he then followed that by saying he saw no problem with Iraq and that they were following the agreement. He basically said they WEREN'T in compliance, but that is was not a problem for him. > Because in most countries the police require proof > before an arrest and then there is a trial before > an execution. The police do not stop you on the > street demand proof of your innocence claim you are > lying and shoot you. There was such a thing, vis-a-vis Iraq. It was called the Invasion of Kuwait and the bombing of Israel with Scud missiles... What is happening now is of a piece with that. When we booted them out of Kuwait, they agreed to disarm as part of the surrender. They have not been keeping their word. They are in breach of their obligations, AND have been continuing to develop illegal weapons. Al From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Feb 22 22:04:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: DECserver 300 fun References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAEE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <038401c2daf0$14c5d1b0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 9:36 PM Subject: DECserver 300 fun > All, > > Yeah, well... part of the fun was getting the consoles tied together > using a DECserver 300. The thing works, boots, loads the software, > and then... BANG. Dumps me into a very unwilling mode that just > gives me a # prompt, and then wants me to guess. > > Anyone have the (pdf?) docs on this beast? I assumed it would be a > thing similar to the 200, but oh, was i wrong... > > --f The # sounds like a password prompt. If you get any response when you key try "help". If it seems like a password prompt, try "system". I recently got a manual for the 300; if you have specific questions I can look them up for you.. Stuart Johnson From alhartman at yahoo.com Sat Feb 22 22:07:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030223025400.33630.19684.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030223040348.63219.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> Sellam, You have it reversed again... The only reason Cuba has economic sanctions is because Castro refuses to step down, and allow the Democratic Government that his people want. Also, that Cuba supports and funds a lot of South American Terrorism. Just like Iraq, it is totally in Castro's power to make life better for his people. Just step down and let them vote for a new leader. Again, you blame police for the crime, rather than the criminals. > Actually, the only reason Cuba is worse off with > Castro is because the US continues to economically > sanction Cuba because our government doesn't agree > with Castro's politics. > > I'm not saying everything the US does is stupid, but > a lot of the things that the US does is stupid. I would agree with that, but this isn't one of them. Personally, I would like to see the sanctions lifted as they don't seem to make a difference to Castro. He is determined to stay in power anyway. The only good thing is he will probably be too sick to lead, or dead within 10 years, and probably at that point the sanctions will be lifted. A lot of mistakes were made in the U.S.'s policies towards Cuba. And its' handling of the situation. No doubt about that. But hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. Al From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Feb 22 22:09:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: Where has dbit gone? References: <01c101c2dad1$6fc5f6e0$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <3E584877.5CD2F0D4@compsys.to> >Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > I can't reach www.dbit.com, home of the Ersatz-11 (E11) PDP-11 emulator by > John Wilson. Has this gone away? > Jonathan Engdahl Jerome Fine replies: I just tried the same address and there is no response. http://www.dbit.com/ But I just talked to John by phone a few days ago and there was no hint of any problems. I would suggest that we try again tomorrow. I think he does not live in a big city, so the snow storm on the East Coast might be the problem. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Feb 22 22:10:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:12 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs References: <20030223035620.4788.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <038c01c2daf0$fe297050$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Hartman" To: Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 9:56 PM Subject: Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs > > From: Mike > > > > So then why not demand that all countires with > > weapons of mass destruction disarm? > Al > If you are responding to the digest, would you please change the SUBJECT header in your response from "cctalk digest, Vol 1 #??? - ?? msgs" to something relevant to your post? I would appreciate it very much as this would let me skip posts that are not of interest. I replied to your post with the original subject so that it would go into the digest thread containing your post. Thank you, Stuart Johnson From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Feb 22 22:14:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: "Digest" Subject posts References: <3E57E806.30853.1B5DA1C@localhost> Message-ID: <039401c2daf1$71fffad0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 9:13 PM Subject: "Digest" Subject posts > Could the many who post from their digest downloads > please put the subject in their replies ? This makes it > much easier to use my delete button and not have to read > the things I'm not interested in. I don't think that's too > much to ask. I'm sure that would make Jay or Jeffries task > much easier also. Not all of us receive in digest form. > > Lawrence > > > lgwalker@ mts.net Yes, I second this. PLEASE change the subject field in the email you are posting to be relevant to the topic. Stuart Johnson From alhartman at yahoo.com Sat Feb 22 22:15:05 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Floppy Drive In-Reply-To: <20030223025400.33630.19684.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030223041054.63775.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > > On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > > I am looking for a 5 1/4" floppy drive for a > > > TRS-80. > > > That's fine, but you still haven't provided the > > specific information about WHICH TRS-80 you needed > > a drive and cable for... > > He sent me a private post clarifying. > He has a TRS-80 Model 1, and is looking for an > ORIGINAL drive for it (external, with case, power > supply, and cable). > Preferably the original SA400 35 track. I always preferred Tandon TM-100 drives. They needed a lot less service and maintenance than the SA400's did. And I always liked having the extra 5 tracks. I've seen a few of these pop up on E-Bay. Unless you have one for him, or someone on the list... eBay may be his best bet. I have 4 40 Track DSDD 360k PC Drives mounted in an old PC Compatible case (XT style), that has a LONG cable coming out the back. I use this for both my Coco and my Model I (when it was working, my EI is shot and while I have an LNW EI, I want a new KB unit as well). The other thing about SA400 drives, is to make sure he isn't using a patched version of TRSDOS or NewDos/80 or whatever... If the stepping speed of the DOS is too fast, the older drive may not boot properly. I remember taking a copy of 80 Microcomputing and applying the patches from it (with SuperZAP) to a copy of TRS-DOS to make it 40 track, and to speed up the drive step. The system booted up MUCH faster. Boy, those were the days... Al From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Feb 22 22:23:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030223035620.4788.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030223025400.33630.19684.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E57F85F.5606.1F5B745@localhost> I will say this about you Al, you do consistently trumpet the bullies logic and the administrations spin without embarassment. You would have fit in very comfortably with the US supporters of Nazi Germany. Thankfully your type is still a minority at this time in the US. Lawrence On 22 Feb 2003, , Al Hartman wrote: > > From: Mike > > > > So then why not demand that all countires with > > weapons of mass destruction disarm? > > Because none of those countries attacked three of it's > neighbors using them, were forcibly expelled from a > neigboring country and agreed to disarm as part of the > surrender agreement. > > We have not picked Iraq out a hat to disarm them. > > They asked to be disarmed when they used their weapons > against their neighbors AND their own people (Northern > Kurds). > > > Why not start with those that have actually used > > them in the past. > > Name some... And I mean a country that has used WoMD > in an offensive manner without provocation. > > > And not applied randomly. There are many other UN > > sanctions that are being ignored or have been > > vetoed. > > Not that are on the same level as the one Iraq is > flouting. > > > He claims to have done just that and the arms > > inspectors have not been able to find anything. > > If the US has been concealing the evidence of this > > then they are as guilty as he is. > > Did you not listen to the same presentation of Hans > Blix that I did? > > He stated that not only did they find things, they > found more things than Iraq reported. They found Iraq > had developed weapons with a greater range, and in > amounts in excess of the agreements. > > What is stunning for any intelligent person, is that > he then followed that by saying he saw no problem with > Iraq and that they were following the agreement. > > He basically said they WEREN'T in compliance, but that > is was not a problem for him. > > > Because in most countries the police require proof > > before an arrest and then there is a trial before > > an execution. The police do not stop you on the > > street demand proof of your innocence claim you are > > lying and shoot you. > > There was such a thing, vis-a-vis Iraq. It was called > the Invasion of Kuwait and the bombing of Israel with > Scud missiles... > > What is happening now is of a piece with that. When we > booted them out of Kuwait, they agreed to disarm as > part of the surrender. They have not been keeping > their word. > > They are in breach of their obligations, AND have been > continuing to develop illegal weapons. > > Al lgwalker@ mts.net From jss at subatomix.com Sat Feb 22 22:28:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: "Digest" Subject posts In-Reply-To: <039401c2daf1$71fffad0$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <3E57E806.30853.1B5DA1C@localhost> <039401c2daf1$71fffad0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <1952177821.20030222222451@subatomix.com> On Saturday, February 22, 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > From: "Lawrence Walker" >> Could the many who post from their digest downloads please put the >> subject in their replies? > > Yes, I second this. PLEASE change the subject field in the email you are > posting to be relevant to the topic. I wholeheartedly agree. Also, please make sure you edit your replies to contain only the text to which you are replying; don't quote the entire digest. -- Jeffrey Sharp From alhartman at yahoo.com Sat Feb 22 22:38:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030223025400.33630.19684.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030223043433.65775.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> > From: Vintage Computer Festival > > Based on the off-list exchanges we had, your "proof" > was most likely merely jingoistic non-sequiturs > that Sridhar would have probably found as stupid as > I did. Being that you haven't read said reply, you can't possibly make a comment on them. I notice, as usual you stoop to personal attacks rather than discuss the issue. > > But, how can you quibble with the concept that > it's wrong for a county > > to attack it's neighbors, or to build up offensive > weapons? > > Look, every time you open your mouth you contradict > yourself. When will you realize that everything > you ascribe as the reasons for which we want > to go to Iraq, the US has committed the same? Are > you seriously this dense? Personal attack. And what contradiction. When has the U.S. attacked it's neighbor? Last I heard Canada and Mexico are unmolested. And before you bring up stuff that's 100's of years old, you can't address stuff that old with todays mores. Iraq attacked it's neighbors in modern times, with modern weapons. > This is typical of the mindset of control freaks: > everyone else is a child and must be punished if > they don't do as we tell them. I consider this > deviant psychological behavior. Personal Attack yet again. Do you understand a basic concept? It's called "Being one's word". When Iraq AGREED to disarm, to not own or develop weapons of mass destruction, and then broke those agreements. That's where the problem lies. It's not about "control" or being a "control freak". Adults make agreements and keep them. That's the only way world affairs can work. Treaties and agreements have to be kept, and there must be trust that they will be. When they are broken, they must be enforced. Otherwise the entire house of cards based on agreements and "word" collapses. That leads to chaos. > > Nobody wants war, but in case such as this... This > > war will prevent the deaths of millions. Not only > > by Iraq and Hussein, but by others in the future > > who will take this example to embolden themselves > > to do evil without fear of retribution. > > Contradiction. None that I can see. You'd like there to be one, so that you can attack me personally. It's a common tactic of people who are unable to have intelligent discussions of issues. Instead of discussing the issue or facts, and keeping the discussion on that level. You attack the person directly. I could be the world's worst idiot. But, if I was speaking a truth... What difference does that make? I could be a drooling idiot and point up and burble "Sky.. Blue..." The fact that I could be an idiot, doesn't change the fact that sky is indeed blue. So keep the discussion on the facts, rather than making personal attacks. When you do this, you rob yourself of any power, and ability to have your opinions considered and respected, and convince people that they must be indeed, invalid since you needed to make a personal attack. > No it's not. It's in our power to change our > President's ill pursuits because we elected the > bastard and we can take him down. I got news for you. Our President is not doing ANY "ill pursuits". He has the highest sustained approval rating of ANY President in history. He is doing the right thing most of the time. I got that you don't like what he's doing, and don't agree with it. It doesn't make him wrong. > He's OUR servant, and our problem. Saddam Hussein > is someone else's tyrant, not outs. No. He surrendered to us in a war. He has made agreements with our Government AND the U.N. that he is not keeping. He attacked two of our allies, was defeated and he must disarm to keep the terms of the treaty. He is not doing that, and that makes it our business. Sticking our heads in the sand (or up a bodily orifice) as you would have us do, does not make the problem go away, and emboldens others to break agreements or to attack their neighbors without fear of reprisals. > Simple: we are not the police force of the world. People would like us not to be. I'm not sure where I stand on this. Generally, I'm happy when we take principled stands against terrorism, and agression against neighbors. > Of course, logic eludes you, Al. Not at all. I would recommend you go to college, take some World History and Civics courses. Also Ethics. You hold some naive opinions. That sound good on the face, but don't hold up under rigorous scruitiny. They only seem good on the face, but when you extend the consequences of what you would like to see happen out on a timeline, you see that they don't actually bring about the things you claim to stand for. "Peace at any cost" is a misused statement. Often, the price of peace IS war. Perhaps it wouldn't seem so contradictory if you consider that in this context... "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure..." If there were some science fictional way to look at alternate timelines where we could see the different outcomes for different decisions, perhaps there'd be some data for you that might convince you of this. Having this stand that I hold, takes some faith. It takes trust that there are things that never happened that we will never hear about, because they were deterred. If every country or terrorist made a press release saying... "I was going to do X, but didn't do it because I was afraid that the U.N., the U.S., the U.K., etc... Would punish me for doing it..." Then, you'd see how well deterrence works. There was an article in Time Magazine (or it may have been Newsweek) fairly recently that said, that when the U.S. pulled out of Vietnam, it emboldened all sorts of actions. Within three years of the pull-out, American Embassies were attacked, Cuba stepped up it's actions in South America, and more. Backing down has consequences. It's a tough row to hoe, and not as simplistic as you make it. Al From fernande at internet1.net Sat Feb 22 22:52:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: New goodie - Solid State Disk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E58516D.7070401@internet1.net> JP Hindin wrote: > Pictures are available: > http://www.kiwigeek.com/hjp/comps/emc2_orion.html I get a 404 on that link. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Feb 22 23:03:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030223040348.63219.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030223025400.33630.19684.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E580197.23333.219BC76@localhost> On 22 Feb 2003, , Al Hartman wrote: > Sellam, > > You have it reversed again... > > The only reason Cuba has economic sanctions is because > Castro refuses to step down,( and allow the Democratic > Government that his people want.) and allow the "democratic" regime the US government wants. Hardship because of US sanctions or not, the cuban people remember the years of the Batista government and his Mafia cronies supported by US monied interests, and don't want to give up their hardwon freedoms to allow the"Gusanos"(worms) who fled to Florida with their money to be reinstalled in power. To my knowledge Cubans have a literacy rate now surpassing the US. If they really wanted a change of government you can believe that the state department could have achieved that with all their experience in replacing unfavored Latin American regimes. > Also, that Cuba supports and funds a lot of South > American Terrorism. Terrorism is now the Bush administrations term for freedom fighters who don't accept pro-US oppressive regimes. > > Just like Iraq, it is totally in Castro's power to > make life better for his people. Just step down and >( let them vote for a new leader.) accept a leader bought and paid for, and our massive PR abilities and money can do the rest. > It is precisely because he did make life better for his people that the US olligarchy is so enraged by him. > Again, you blame police for the crime, rather than the > criminals. > Who appointed the US as the police of the world ? And of course if the world doesn't agree, then as Dubya says they are irrevellent (NATO and the UN). Sounds a lot to me like outlaw logic. Just as Israel has defied virtually every resolution of the UN. > > Actually, the only reason Cuba is worse off with > > Castro is because the US continues to economically > > sanction Cuba because our government doesn't agree > > with Castro's politics. > > > > I'm not saying everything the US does is stupid, but > > a lot of the things that the US does is stupid. > > I would agree with that, but this isn't one of them. > > Personally, I would like to see the sanctions lifted > as they don't seem to make a difference to Castro. He > is determined to stay in power anyway. > > The only good thing is he will probably be too sick to > lead, or dead within 10 years, and probably at that > point the sanctions will be lifted. > > A lot of mistakes were made in the U.S.'s policies > towards Cuba. And its' handling of the situation. No > doubt about that. > Amen Brother. And Fidel still loves baseball. > But hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. > > Al But attempting to sway your mind is like trying to sway Goerring who after many defeats still loved Hitler. Oh well, why bother. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Feb 22 23:43:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs References: <20030223043433.65775.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E585E9D.5090305@eoni.com> Al Hartman wrote: > > When has the U.S. attacked it's neighbor? 1846, 1914 (Government overthrow), 1916 (Black Jack Pershing, WWI Expeditionary Force Commander) Look that one up. It's an interesting read. Typical Americana. Bottom of: By John SD Eisenhower (Dwight D.'s son. Not exactly a flaming liberal.) > > Last I heard Canada and Mexico are unmolested. And > before you bring up stuff that's 100's of years old, > you can't address stuff that old with todays mores. > Sure you can. To repeat: 1912 : U.S. Marines invade Nicaragua and occupy the country almost continuously until 1933. 1914: Mexican refusal to salute the U.S. flag provokes the shelling of Veracruz by a U.S. battleship and the seizure of parts of the city by U.S. Marines. 1933: U.S. Marines finally leave Nicaragua, but are replaced by a well-trained and well-armed National Guard under the control of Anastasio Somoza. 1954: The CIA engineers the overthrow of the democratically-elected government of Guatemala; 30 years of military dictatorship, repression, and violence follow. 1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the revolutionary Cuban government at the Bay of Pigs. 1965: Johnson sends 22,000 troops to the Dominican Republic to combat the constitutional forces trying to regain power. 1973: The CIA helps overthrow the democratic government of Allende in Chile in favor of a bloody dictatorship. 1981: The Reagan Administration begins the contra war against Nicaraguan civilians. 1983: The U.S. invades Grenada to overthrow a popular government. 1989: The U.S. invades Panama to arrest accused drug dealer Manual Noriega. 1990 : The U.S. intervenes in the Nicaraguan election process through covert and overt means. I suspect that our mores were tremendously different in 1989. > > No. He surrendered to us in a war. He has made > agreements with our Government AND the U.N. that he is > not keeping. > Actually, the Iraqis agreed to a cease-fire with the U.N. Hence, enforcing the terms of the 'surrender' agreement is the United Nation's responsibility, NOT the United States'. The terms of the cease-fire were detailed in UNITED NATIONS Resolution 687 Follow the link and read the resolution. Nowhere does it specify that if the terms are not met, the United States of America shall enforce them. Ditto UN Resolution 1441 Member states shall enforce. Not United States. Instead of taking history courses, I'd suggest that you do a bit of research. When one takes "history courses" one gets a sanitized view of the world. Remember, History Books are written by the victors. The United States has participated in or instigated more coups than possibly any other modern government. Most recently the 'instant' recognition of the coup in Venezuela. Oops... uncoup'd. Nevermind. Pax, Jim From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 22 23:49:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030223040348.63219.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > You have it reversed again... Al, you have your head up your ass as usual. > The only reason Cuba has economic sanctions is because Castro refuses to > step down, and allow the Democratic Government that his people want. The only reason the Cubans are suffering is because of an economic embargo that prevents Cuba from having a normal economy. Why do you believe Castro should step down because the US does not like him? This is not rhetorical. I want an answer since you seem to think you're such a geopolitical genius. > Also, that Cuba supports and funds a lot of South American Terrorism. Oh, fuck, are you for real!? Will you not agree that the United States trained and funded death squads in many South and central American countries? I want an answer. > Just like Iraq, it is totally in Castro's power to make life better for > his people. Just step down and let them vote for a new leader. I would sooner have Bush step down so that our economy can get back on track and make life better for Americans, with a side effect being that creatures like you can crawl back into the smelly little holes from whence you came. This administration is ensuring that no American will be safe outside our borders for a long time to come, let alone inside our own borders! Tell me why you disagree so I can rip your argument to shreds. > Again, you blame police for the crime, rather than the criminals. Actually, I blame our deteriorating educational system for allowing people with your severely limited level of critical thinking skills to exist in America in large, scary numbers. > > I'm not saying everything the US does is stupid, but > > a lot of the things that the US does is stupid. > > I would agree with that, but this isn't one of them. Ok, then what would you say are things the US have done that are stupid? > A lot of mistakes were made in the U.S.'s policies towards Cuba. And > its' handling of the situation. No doubt about that. Wow, you mean the US is *not* perfect after all? This is quite a turn around from a couple messages ago. > But hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. And stupidity is a constant. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Feb 22 23:50:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030223043433.65775.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030223025400.33630.19684.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E580CD5.27006.245A926@localhost> Try to read a little history or have you not heard of the War of 1812 with Canada, the invasion of Cuba, the various sorties with Mexico, not to mention the numerous other wars that weren't quite so close as Canada or Mexico. As for wars on it's neighbors, Iraq was a client state of the US in it's war with Iran, and the Kurds were gassed with supplies from the US. Kuwait likely wouldn't have happened if Saddam hadn't got suckered by Albright into thinking the US wouldn't do anything if they attacked Kuwait over oil piracy issues, and the poor Shiites and Kurds were suckered into thinking the US would support them in a rebellion against Saddam to their tragic regret. And you can believe it that most canadians feel their health-care is under attack by US med corporations, Our industries are under attack and have been decimated by "free" trade, and our softwood lumber industries and water resources are also under attack, not to mention our cultural industries. But one takes that into account when you are in the same bed as a hungry giant. And you better believe the ordinary Mexican is no more convinced of the benevolence of the corporate-run US administartion despite the sucking up of the Fox government. And those so-called agreements a defeated Iraq agreed to under the UN were also binding on the US and which the US and it's lackey Blair are willing to ignore if the UN doesn't go along with its take on things. The UN was set up to prevent attacks by nations on other nations following the horror of WWII. The US has been involved in every major conflict since that time. The UN has laws that would be against an attack on Iraq. Do only US-made laws apply ? Reminds me of Double Speak from Orwells "1984" Lawrence On 22 Feb 2003, , Al Hartman wrote: > > From: Vintage Computer Festival > > > > Based on the off-list exchanges we had, your "proof" > > was most likely merely jingoistic non-sequiturs > > that Sridhar would have probably found as stupid as > > I did. > > Being that you haven't read said reply, you can't > possibly make a comment on them. I notice, as usual > you stoop to personal attacks rather than discuss the > issue. > > > > But, how can you quibble with the concept that > > it's wrong for a county > > > to attack it's neighbors, or to build up offensive > > weapons? > > > > Look, every time you open your mouth you contradict > > yourself. When will you realize that everything > > you ascribe as the reasons for which we want > > to go to Iraq, the US has committed the same? Are > > you seriously this dense? > > Personal attack. > > And what contradiction. > > When has the U.S. attacked it's neighbor? > > Last I heard Canada and Mexico are unmolested. And > before you bring up stuff that's 100's of years old, > you can't address stuff that old with todays mores. > > Iraq attacked it's neighbors in modern times, with > modern weapons. > > > This is typical of the mindset of control freaks: > > everyone else is a child and must be punished if > > they don't do as we tell them. I consider this > > deviant psychological behavior. > > Personal Attack yet again. > > Do you understand a basic concept? > > It's called "Being one's word". > > When Iraq AGREED to disarm, to not own or develop > weapons of mass destruction, and then broke those > agreements. That's where the problem lies. > > It's not about "control" or being a "control freak". > > Adults make agreements and keep them. > > That's the only way world affairs can work. Treaties > and agreements have to be kept, and there must be > trust that they will be. > > When they are broken, they must be enforced. Otherwise > the entire house of cards based on agreements and > "word" collapses. > > That leads to chaos. > > > > Nobody wants war, but in case such as this... This > > > war will prevent the deaths of millions. Not only > > > by Iraq and Hussein, but by others in the future > > > who will take this example to embolden themselves > > > to do evil without fear of retribution. > > > > Contradiction. > > None that I can see. > > You'd like there to be one, so that you can attack me > personally. > > It's a common tactic of people who are unable to have > intelligent discussions of issues. > > Instead of discussing the issue or facts, and keeping > the discussion on that level. You attack the person > directly. > > I could be the world's worst idiot. But, if I was > speaking a truth... What difference does that make? > > I could be a drooling idiot and point up and burble > "Sky.. Blue..." > > The fact that I could be an idiot, doesn't change the > fact that sky is indeed blue. > > So keep the discussion on the facts, rather than > making personal attacks. When you do this, you rob > yourself of any power, and ability to have your > opinions considered and respected, and convince people > that they must be indeed, invalid since you needed to > make a personal attack. > > > No it's not. It's in our power to change our > > President's ill pursuits because we elected the > > bastard and we can take him down. > > I got news for you. Our President is not doing ANY > "ill pursuits". He has the highest sustained approval > rating of ANY President in history. > > He is doing the right thing most of the time. > > I got that you don't like what he's doing, and don't > agree with it. It doesn't make him wrong. > > > He's OUR servant, and our problem. Saddam Hussein > > is someone else's tyrant, not outs. > > No. He surrendered to us in a war. He has made > agreements with our Government AND the U.N. that he is > not keeping. > > He attacked two of our allies, was defeated and he > must disarm to keep the terms of the treaty. > > He is not doing that, and that makes it our business. > > Sticking our heads in the sand (or up a bodily > orifice) as you would have us do, does not make the > problem go away, and emboldens others to break > agreements or to attack their neighbors without fear > of reprisals. > > > Simple: we are not the police force of the world. > > People would like us not to be. > > I'm not sure where I stand on this. > > Generally, I'm happy when we take principled stands > against terrorism, and agression against neighbors. > > > Of course, logic eludes you, Al. > > Not at all. > > I would recommend you go to college, take some World > History and Civics courses. Also Ethics. > > You hold some naive opinions. That sound good on the > face, but don't hold up under rigorous scruitiny. > > They only seem good on the face, but when you extend > the consequences of what you would like to see happen > out on a timeline, you see that they don't actually > bring about the things you claim to stand for. > > "Peace at any cost" is a misused statement. Often, the > price of peace IS war. Perhaps it wouldn't seem so > contradictory if you consider that in this context... > > "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure..." > > If there were some science fictional way to look at > alternate timelines where we could see the different > outcomes for different decisions, perhaps there'd be > some data for you that might convince you of this. > > Having this stand that I hold, takes some faith. It > takes trust that there are things that never happened > that we will never hear about, because they were > deterred. > > If every country or terrorist made a press release > saying... > > "I was going to do X, but didn't do it because I was > afraid that the U.N., the U.S., the U.K., etc... Would > punish me for doing it..." > > Then, you'd see how well deterrence works. > > There was an article in Time Magazine (or it may have > been Newsweek) fairly recently that said, that when > the U.S. pulled out of Vietnam, it emboldened all > sorts of actions. > > Within three years of the pull-out, American Embassies > were attacked, Cuba stepped up it's actions in South > America, and more. > > Backing down has consequences. > > It's a tough row to hoe, and not as simplistic as you > make it. > > Al lgwalker@ mts.net From aek at spies.com Sun Feb 23 00:04:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Century Data Systems (tape drive?) exerciser Message-ID: <200302230604.h1N64O1Y014162@spies.com> I've put the manual for the T2000 up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/centuryData From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 23 00:16:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Stupid war babble (was Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs) In-Reply-To: <20030223043433.65775.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > Based on the off-list exchanges we had, your "proof" > > was most likely merely jingoistic non-sequiturs > > that Sridhar would have probably found as stupid as > > I did. > > Being that you haven't read said reply, you can't possibly make a > comment on them. I notice, as usual you stoop to personal attacks rather > than discuss the issue. How can I not call you an idiot? Look, I believe firmly that everyone has a right to believe what they want. But when what you believe puts others' (in this case tens, probably even hundreds of thousands of others') lives in jeopardy, I am going to call it like it is. You think a few thousand dead Iraqi's is fine as long as it, in your twisted logic, somehow saves American lives. Not only are you wrong, your premise is wrong, the so-called "facts" that you are basing your opinions on are wrong, the people you are putting your trust into are wrong, and they are lying to you, and you are completely, totally, unequivocally blind to this. I call that idiocy. > > Look, every time you open your mouth you contradict > > yourself. When will you realize that everything > > you ascribe as the reasons for which we want > > to go to Iraq, the US has committed the same? Are > > you seriously this dense? > > And what contradiction. > > When has the U.S. attacked it's neighbor? Do you know how to read?? Open up a fucking history book for once! I'm not your god damn history teacher, and anything I tell you you're going to deny anyway, so what's the fucking point!? WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT!!? > Last I heard Canada and Mexico are unmolested. And before you bring up > stuff that's 100's of years old, you can't address stuff that old with > todays mores. Panama, 1989 Grenada, 1983 Need any more examples? How about just about every central American country mired in deadly conflict throughout the 1960-1980 timeframe, with collectively millions of civilians totured or killed through puppet regimes of the US or third party elements acting on behalf of the US. Will you wave this off also? I can't wait for your reply! > Iraq attacked it's neighbors in modern times, with modern weapons. Blahdaddyfuckingblah! WHO CARES!? We didn't even give a shit about the Kuwaiti's until they begged us to come save their stupid asses! And we certainly didn't and still do not give a shit about the Iranians, and our wonderful ally Turkey doesn't give a shit about the Kurds, and so you can bet the US doesn't either!! Israel attacked Iraq. Israel also attacks what was supposed to be sovereign Palestinian territory on a daily, almost HOURLY basis. Israel is one of, if not THE, most blatant and unrepentive human rights violators on the planet Earth! Yet the US (i.e. your tax dollars, i.e. YOU) supports them through it all! WHAT IS THIS IMMORAL HYPOCRISY!? What is your answer to that!??? > When Iraq AGREED to disarm, to not own or develop weapons of mass > destruction, and then broke those agreements. That's where the problem > lies. Control freak. WHO CARES!? It's a UNITED NATIONS problem! NOT a UNITED STATES problem! > It's not about "control" or being a "control freak". Yes, it is! > Adults make agreements and keep them. Maybe in your elemntary school yard world, but last I checked, the United States has broken NUMEROUS agreements, including international treaties on the environment and certain weapons bans. What have you got to say about that!? ANSWER THE QUESTION! > That's the only way world affairs can work. Treaties and agreements have > to be kept, and there must be trust that they will be. HYPOCRITE!! STUPID FUCKING UNRELENTINGLY MORONIC HYPOCRITE!!! > When they are broken, they must be enforced. Otherwise the entire house > of cards based on agreements and "word" collapses. HYPOCRITE!!! > That leads to chaos. My head is going to explode. > > > Nobody wants war, but in case such as this... This > > > war will prevent the deaths of millions. Not only > > > by Iraq and Hussein, but by others in the future > > > who will take this example to embolden themselves > > > to do evil without fear of retribution. > > > > Contradiction. > > None that I can see. Of course not, because you're an idiot. This is not a personal attack. This is my sincere, educated assessment of your level of critical thinking ability. I honestly classify you as an idiot. > It's a common tactic of people who are unable to have intelligent > discussions of issues. That's funny. That's really funny. You know, there was a study about a year ago that found that incompetent people are not capable of realizing their own incompetence. In their minds, they perceive themselves to be more competent than they actually are. > Instead of discussing the issue or facts, and keeping the discussion on > that level. You attack the person directly. YOU GIVE ME NOTHING ELSE TO ATTACK! Everything you say I heard on yesterday's news, and even then it was bullshit! Give me an original argument that actually makes sense and I might just respond cordially! > I could be the world's worst idiot. OH, DO YA THINK!? DO YA THINK MAYBE, HUH!? > But, if I was speaking a truth... What difference does that make? > > I could be a drooling idiot and point up and burble > "Sky.. Blue..." > > The fact that I could be an idiot, doesn't change the > fact that sky is indeed blue. Oh...my...god. Oh...my...fucking...god. > So keep the discussion on the facts, rather than making personal > attacks. When you do this, you rob yourself of any power, and ability to > have your opinions considered and respected, and convince people that > they must be indeed, invalid since you needed to make a personal attack. Ok, you're right. Throughout the past 10 or so grueling messages I have written to you, I have not once provided any facts whatsoever. I have, unlike you, just been spewing babble and recycled rhetoric that I borrowed straight from the lips of some talking head on TV. I'm sorry. I'm going to go shoot myself now. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sun Feb 23 00:32:00 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: New goodie - Solid State Disk In-Reply-To: <3E58516D.7070401@internet1.net> Message-ID: > JP Hindin wrote: > > Pictures are available: > > http://www.kiwigeek.com/hjp/comps/emc2_orion.html On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I get a 404 on that link. Indeed. I uploaded the pictures, the thumbnails and the updated index... But managed to forget the actual HTML describing the EMC. Whoops. Fixed; Thanks JP From oldcomp at cox.net Sun Feb 23 00:56:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Apple 1 memory References: <3E5727B9.7060503@cox.net> <33251.66.77.210.18.1045967923.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E586F98.7020304@cox.net> Thanks Eric, I'll take your word for it since I haven't looked at an Apple 1 schematic for about twenty-five years! That may have been another reason I didn't put video on my board! Bryan Eric Smith wrote: >Your Apple 1 homebrew page is interesting, but the details about >Woz's design aren't quite correct. The Apple 1 did use 4K multiplexed >address DRAMs (typ. MK4096) for the main memory. But the video memory >was entirely separate, and consisted of seven Signetics 2504 1Kbit >dynamic shift registers and a Signetics 2519 hex 40-bit shift register. >The video memory recirculated constantly, so it didn't need any explicit >refresh circuitry. > >It wasn't until the Apple 2 design that Woz shared the main memory with >the display to get automatic DRAM refresh. > >Best regards, >Eric Smith From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Feb 23 01:17:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Test message Message-ID: <200302222313340342.0A733443@192.168.42.130> Please excuse the brief test. I'm trying to troubleshoot a replacement mail server. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Feb 23 01:42:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: one last riposte Message-ID: <3E5826FC.14234.2ABD485@localhost> One last riposte for these supposed "patriots". FEMA was brought in by the Reagan-Bush administrations and now Junior has extended the rights to suspend the rights enshrined in the US constitution by the founding fathers who could never have imagined the rapacity of the present bandits. Check out http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon6.html or if you want a real example of the big sell even extended to your kids www.fema.gov/kids/ But of course there is no brainwashing going on in the US of The New World Order. Or if you are even capable of reading something other than spin-doctored news-clips, read " The Praetorian Guard" by John Stockwell, the highest-ranking CIA officer ever to quit the agency and expose the truth of it's operations to Congressional investigators, if the book hasn't been "disappeared" by the State Department. You might even re-examine the positions of the "discredited" former US Attorney-General Ramsey Clarke. Enough of this BS, I'd rather ignore the parroting rabble and go back to figuring out the workings of "non-computer" micros and even "non-computer" DEC micros. I shut ma mouth... Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From jss at subatomix.com Sun Feb 23 03:26:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: M9312 Bootstrap Questions Message-ID: <8317262572.20030223023615@subatomix.com> Ok, I got my PDP-11/34 mounted in its rack and have started to audit jumpers, switches, etc. I am being cornfused by the M9312 bootstrap terminator module. First, I'm confused about what version of the module I have. My 11/34 user's manual (EK-11034-UG-001 '77) talks about a -YA, -YB, and -YF version of the board. My M9312 manual (EK-M9312-TM-003 '81) talks only in terms of bootstrap ROM part numbers. The DIP switch references in the two documents conflict, even differing on the switch settings necessary just to boot into the console emulator. My M9312 has no -Yx designator and has only one bootstrap ROM installed (756A9 for RK03/05/05J or TU55/56). The M9312 manual seems to make the most sense in this case, so I've been believing its side of the story. However, the DIP switch settings on my M9312 have me puzzled. Here they are: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ON ON ON OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF ON ON This doesn't correspond to anything in either manual! According to the manual I'm trusting, this says to start executing at 765406 (in the console emulator ROM). It needs to be 765020 (with diags) or 765144 (without diags). Supposedly, the machine was functional when it was decommed, so my first instinct is to assume I am (or the docs are) wrong somewhere. However, its previous owner (another collector) was not able **IIRC** to get a register printout at power-up. So maybe the DIP switch is pointing to someplace that isn't a valid entry point. I don't have access to the complete M9312 print set, which would list the ROM contents. Should I reset the DIP switch to say 765020? -- Jeffrey Sharp From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Feb 23 03:28:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) References: Message-ID: <002f01c2db1d$94cea3a0$0100000a@milkyway> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > The "PC Technical Reference Manual" was cheap, and contained > complete schematics and source code for the BIOS. Third party > "disassemblies" being sold by third parties are NOT comparable! It's interesting you mentioned the IBM PC TRM - is that the same thing as the so-called "purple book" I've read so much about (mostly in long-since deceased webpages Google have cached)? I'm trying to track down a copy of the original IBM PC Technical Reference and any updates to it (3.5" drive support in the BIOS, etc). Anyone got a copy they want to sell? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Feb 23 03:39:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) References: Message-ID: <003701c2db1f$1ffdefc0$0100000a@milkyway> Tony Duell wrote: > Can you? > > What about : > 30 pin SIMMs and/or SIPPs (I've not seen those listed for several > years) Me neither, and I need some 2MB 30-pin SIMMs for an old 386-based machine. It's got 8x 1MB SIMMs fitted now, $DEITY knows how much it can take in total, I'm guessing around 16MB. What I'd like to know is why it's reporting 8064K of RAM when it's got 8192K (8MB) fitted... I'm guessing the chipset is stealing some system RAM for a CPU cache or something. > PC/XT compatible keyboards. Heck, _any_ useful 8 bit ISA card I want a keyboard with a buckling-spring mechanism (IBM "Model M" IIRC) > 5.25" floppy drives I've got one of those. A YE-DATA open-frame (no metal covers) drive out of an old Packard Bell Legend 386. Has anyone got an ISA slot riser card that plugs into an ISA slot and provides three or more horizontal slots instead of one vertical slot? >> One thing I'm slightly suprised about is that you're not claiming >> that it's easy to service 'real computers' at the component level. >> Of course, > That is one definition of 'real computer' that I sometimes use :-) Can you rework 8-layer PC motherboards then? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Feb 23 03:46:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) References: Message-ID: <003d01c2db20$1b3834e0$0100000a@milkyway> Tony Duell wrote: >> 3) Not just yes, hell yes! > I haev tired and failed several times to get service data for Compaq > machines.... How did you manage it? I'd like to know that, too - I need a service manual for a Compaq Contura 420C laptop. Nice machine, a total pain in the a$$ when it's running Win95, a nice machine when it's running Win3.1 >>>>> 3) Is it documented? >> 1) Dunno, don't care. damn thing runs, don't it? Why do I need to >> solder Athlons, anyway??? > Ah, there's the first difference. I am not always prepared to accept > somebody else's ideas of what I need in a computer. Most of the PCBs > in > my PC have home-made mods done to them... :-) Why do you think I keep at least one machine around that has ISA slots fitted? > Just try getting spares for most PC products today. Me> "I need a PCI graphics card for my PC, preferably with an nVidia TNT or Geforce chipset" PCWorld salesdroid> *takes me to the shelf with the video cards, taking a "short cut" through the new PCs Me> "Those cards are all AGP" Salesdroid> "AGP cards will fit in a PCI slot" Me> "When AGP is about 4x faster than PCI and uses a different sized connector?" Salesdroid> "Duh........" Speaking of which, I still need a geForce2 card for this machine... I'm stuck with a SiS 530 ATM ("It supports 3D"... "But it's faster to do software 3D rendering")... >> 3) Better than most PCs out there, and it's available free... > Please point me to a free schematic for any Compaq computer... Yes, please do :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Feb 23 05:09:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <003701c2db1f$1ffdefc0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <3E585773.30825.3692D93@localhost> A good part of my collection are boards, chips, drives, and other old equipment that is not easily available now. I think most collectors also have these, as well as a second model of their most treasured computer in case some part becomes no longer available. As a compulsive packrat I even have a stash of tubes for the few remaining tube gear that I have. And also in case I run across some nice audio equipment that is missing tubes. I even carried around a kit of plugs, patches, glue,and repair tools for years from the days when I was a Tire repair man, until my ex forced me to abandon them 8 years ago. DAMN her disrespectful hide !! Sipps are another problem. I had to buy some on EPay a while back for my Grid 1520 since I could find no source for them, altho I now have a pretty good lead and have to stock up, because they will be virtually impossible to find in a few years. But all of that goes with the territory we stake. Lawrence On 23 Feb 2003, , Philip Pemberton wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > Can you? > > > > What about : > > 30 pin SIMMs and/or SIPPs (I've not seen those listed for > > several years) > Me neither, and I need some 2MB 30-pin SIMMs for an old > 386-based machine. It's got 8x 1MB SIMMs fitted now, $DEITY > knows how much it can take in total, I'm guessing around > 16MB. What I'd like to know is why it's reporting 8064K of > RAM when it's got 8192K (8MB) fitted... I'm guessing the > chipset is stealing some system RAM for a CPU cache or > something. > > > PC/XT compatible keyboards. Heck, _any_ useful 8 bit ISA > > card > I want a keyboard with a buckling-spring mechanism (IBM > "Model M" IIRC) > > > 5.25" floppy drives > I've got one of those. A YE-DATA open-frame (no metal > covers) drive out of an old Packard Bell Legend 386. Has > anyone got an ISA slot riser card that plugs into an ISA > slot and provides three or more horizontal slots instead of > one vertical slot? > > >> One thing I'm slightly suprised about is that you're not > >> claiming that it's easy to service 'real computers' at > >> the component level. Of course, > > That is one definition of 'real computer' that I sometimes > > use :-) > Can you rework 8-layer PC motherboards then? > > Later. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Feb 23 05:10:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <003d01c2db20$1b3834e0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <3E585773.9812.3692D69@localhost> I think it is totally unrealistic to expect to find a schematic for any of the newer machines. I am thankful when I can even find a user guide for them. I In that respect Compaq isn't bad compared to most. II was delighted to find an exploded parts diagram for my Compaq LTE lite 4/33c. The whole thrust of even the Compaq techs is simply component replacement-board or part switching. It may not be to our liking but that is the reality in this era. One of the reasons I liked IBM was their extensive support files but to expect to find a schematic for one of their newer machines is fantasy. Like most companies their techs rely on FRUs to repair machines. Even the name Field Replacement Units suggest how their techs repair computers. Schematics are for the specialised field of computer design and not necessary from their point of view. "You want to replace a capacitor ? You must be joking. That is a job for small-fingered oriental women" Lawrence On 23 Feb 2003, , Philip Pemberton wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > >> 3) Not just yes, hell yes! > > I haev tired and failed several times to get service data > > for Compaq machines.... How did you manage it? > I'd like to know that, too - I need a service manual for a > Compaq Contura 420C laptop. Nice machine, a total pain in > the a$$ when it's running Win95, a nice machine when it's > running Win3.1 > > >>>>> 3) Is it documented? > >> 1) Dunno, don't care. damn thing runs, don't it? Why do I > >> need to solder Athlons, anyway??? > > Ah, there's the first difference. I am not always prepared > > to accept somebody else's ideas of what I need in a > > computer. Most of the PCBs in my PC have home-made mods > > done to them... > :-) > Why do you think I keep at least one machine around that has > ISA slots fitted? > > > Just try getting spares for most PC products today. > Me> "I need a PCI graphics card for my PC, preferably with > an nVidia TNT or Geforce chipset" PCWorld salesdroid> *takes > me to the shelf with the video cards, taking a "short cut" > through the new PCs Me> "Those cards are all AGP" > Salesdroid> "AGP cards will fit in a PCI slot" Me> "When AGP > is about 4x faster than PCI and uses a different sized > connector?" Salesdroid> "Duh........" > > Speaking of which, I still need a geForce2 card for this > machine... I'm stuck with a SiS 530 ATM ("It supports 3D"... > "But it's faster to do software 3D rendering")... > > >> 3) Better than most PCs out there, and it's available > >> free... > > Please point me to a free schematic for any Compaq > > computer... > Yes, please do :-) > > Later. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ lgwalker@ mts.net From fm.arnold at gmx.net Sun Feb 23 08:35:01 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Misterious DEC-Module M7071 Message-ID: Hi, I got a strange board in recentley. Made by DEC, Quad-heigh, Dual-width, only one double sided 2x18 pin edge-connector that is snmaller as usual, aperantley carrying only power-supply connections. Has some 80 SSI/MSI TTL-chips, one prom 19-10818-02, and 10pcs 93l422 256kx4 ram's. Chips have 1979 date codes. The strange thing about this board is, that there is hardley any external connections, there is 1 (one) split-lug terminal, and one 16 pole IC-socket, as normalley used for automated testing signal connection. On the solderside there is the wording: "Waveform Generator" and 5012514F-P1 Who knows what this board is, and what it does? In what equipment was it used? How and for what purpose are the 10 Mbit of RAM filled with what kind of data? Fieldguide says: M7071 U Video Display Sys: image memory, RAMs & buffer logic. I don't understand this, because ther is no unibus-connection on this module at all. Is it a part of something bigger? Thanks, Frank From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 23 08:43:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs In-Reply-To: <3E580CD5.27006.245A926@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote: > As for wars on it's neighbors, Iraq was a client state of > the US in it's war with Iran, and the Kurds were gassed > with supplies from the US. And there is now controversy over whether Iraq purposely gassed the kurds of if they were unfortunate "collateral damage" as Iraqi forces attacked Iranian ones. > Kuwait likely wouldn't have > happened if Saddam hadn't got suckered by Albright into ^^^^^^^^ April Gillespie. > thinking the US wouldn't do anything if they attacked > Kuwait over oil piracy issues, and the poor Shiites and > Kurds were suckered into thinking the US would support > them in a rebellion against Saddam to their tragic regret. Here's a good lecture transcript on that: http://www.cdi.org/adm/1124/transcript.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From quapla at xs4all.nl Sun Feb 23 09:14:00 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Misterious DEC-Module M7071 References: Message-ID: <3E58E44A.7F42F3E2@xs4all.nl> Frank, I believe it is part of a 2 card stack. There should be another card which is connected to this one using a flatcable connecting the two together. Ed Frank Arnold wrote: > > Hi, > > I got a strange board in recentley. Made by DEC, Quad-heigh, Dual-width, only > one double sided 2x18 pin edge-connector that is snmaller as usual, aperantley > carrying only power-supply connections. Has some 80 SSI/MSI TTL-chips, one prom > 19-10818-02, and 10pcs 93l422 256kx4 ram's. Chips have 1979 date codes. > > The strange thing about this board is, that there is hardley any external > connections, there is 1 (one) split-lug terminal, and one 16 pole IC-socket, as > normalley used for automated testing signal connection. > > On the solderside there is the wording: "Waveform Generator" and 5012514F-P1 > > Who knows what this board is, and what it does? In what equipment was it used? > How and for what purpose are the 10 Mbit of RAM filled with what kind of data? > > Fieldguide says: > M7071 U Video Display Sys: image memory, RAMs & buffer logic. > I don't understand this, because ther is no unibus-connection on this module at > all. Is it a part of something bigger? > > Thanks, > Frank -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn onbetrouwbaar quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Wie mij te na komt zal het weten. '97 TL1000S | From thompson at new.rr.com Sun Feb 23 09:16:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: DECserver 300 fun In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAEE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: > Yeah, well... part of the fun was getting the consoles tied together > using a DECserver 300. The thing works, boots, loads the software, > and then... BANG. Dumps me into a very unwilling mode that just > gives me a # prompt, and then wants me to guess. "access" is the default password at the #. "system" is the default password for the SET PRIV command. There is a DECserver 500 configuration manual available on Ebay right now which will answer most all configuration related questions. Most even applies to the 300. -- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Feb 23 09:21:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Info wanted: IBM vacuum tube digital computer demonstrator Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030223102032.0f1f825e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone on here know anything about a digital computer demostrator unit made by IBM in the late '50s? It's housed in a nice wooden box about 2 feet wide x 15" deep x 12" tall. On the top of the box is a brass plaque that says "Presented by International Business Machine Corporation". Inside is a grey painted metal box with a row of ten 9-pin tube sockets along the back of top. In front of each socket is a single nean light. In front of that are blocks with small holes for jumper wires similar to those used in the Heathkit trainers. One end of the box has a male Jones plug connector and the other end has a female connector. It looks like the units were made so that additional units could be stacked together. On the front side of the grey box is a tag about 1 1/2" x 3" that says IBM in large letters. In a compartment on the right side of the wood case is a power cable that plugs into one of the Jones plug connectors. Under the grey metal chassis is a compartment with jumper wires, spare neon lamps and other small parts. Along the front edge of the box are two rows of holes that hold modules that plug into the sockets in the metal chassis. Each module is an open chassis about an inch square and 4 to 7 inches tall. Each chassis has at least one vacuum tube in it and some have two tubes, one above the other. Each chassis has a metal hoop or bail that goes up and over the top of the top most tube and back down the other side to form a handle for inserting and removing the chassis. On the top of the bail is a small tag with numbers like "TR-2", etc. Besides the tubes the chassis also have other small components such as resistors and capcitors. There are a total of twenty of the small chassis and each one can be plugged into any of the sockets in the main unit but you have to set a number of jumpers on each socket to a get the correct voltages for each of the tube elements. The tubes can be configured as logic elemements such buffers, invertors, various gates, etc and they jumpered together to form more complex d e such as flip flops. Evidently the nean lamps are used to indicate the state of each logic element. The guy that had it was quite specific and said that is is NOT an analog computer but a digital one. I went through it trying to find a model number or date but could only find the number 56 stamped on some of the tubes. I'm not sure if that's the manufacturering date or not but it's probably close. Can anyone tell me more about this thing or even (HOPEFULLY) have a manual for it? PS this came from the University of Florida. Joe From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Feb 23 09:23:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: [fixed]: DECserver 300 fun Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAF1@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, Yay... DEC's rigidness in how things Should Be Done did not disappoint me again... the DS300 was in password protection mode. I cleared it with the usual procedure, and am now able to configure it... which is almost as painless as it was with the DS200's I have ! (*just with TCP/IP added ;-) *) Thanks to all who have helped/responded! Now, back to the usual political BS we read here.. --fred From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Feb 23 10:08:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <002f01c2db1d$94cea3a0$0100000a@milkyway> References: <002f01c2db1d$94cea3a0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <20030223163144.GJ12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> PeeCee user to C64/Atari/etc. user: why don't you use a real computer? (real) Graphics workstation (e.g. Sun) user to PeeCee user: why don't you use a real computer? Minicomputer user to (real) graphics workstation user: Why don't you use a real computer? Bigger micomputer user to smaller minicomputer user: Why don't you use a real computer? (modern) Mainframe user to minicomputer user: Why don't you use a real computer? User of a computer with valves/tubes to modern mainframe user: Why don't you use a real computer? etc... It's all relative, or so it appears... however, there is one thing that perhaps most of us can agree on when it comes to defining what a "real" computer is or isn't: surely we all know that a "real" computer is not some random PeeCee (or larger server wannabee, which is still probably a Wintel PeeCee deep down inside) running some random Micro$oft operating system. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From allain at panix.com Sun Feb 23 10:10:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Info wanted: IBM vacuum tube digital computer demonstrator References: <3.0.6.16.20030223102032.0f1f825e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <007701c2db55$4b01afa0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> One of these was sold on eBay by 'svskm5' to 'arpanet' back on April-2001. Looked real nice. About all I know about these. Congrats on a great find. John A. From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Feb 23 10:28:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: IBM-PC Technical Reference Manuals (was: "Real Computers") In-Reply-To: <002f01c2db1d$94cea3a0$0100000a@milkyway> References: <002f01c2db1d$94cea3a0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <20030223165145.GK12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > The "PC Technical Reference Manual" was cheap, and contained > complete schematics and source code for the BIOS. Third party There was a technical reference manual for PC-DOS as well as the technical reference manual for the hardware... I got both of them when IBM was still selling the original PeeCees, but they were, for some odd reason, difficult to obtain even back then (e.g., various people at IBM denied that they existed... and if you really wanted to have fun with IBM's biz'droids, you could telephone IBM and ask them what "wet bulb temperature," as specified in the machine's storage/operating conditions specifications, was! Many of them would actually deny that there was such a specification.). Does anyone know why these books were so difficult to obtain from IBM, even when the systems were new? It seems to me that, for what they charged for PeeCees back in the early days, they should have included useful documentation with them, such as the Hardware Technical Reference Manual. The documentation that came with them was, basically, useless, unless all someone wanted to do was write BASIC programs that didn't do anything particularly hackish. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From at258 at osfn.org Sun Feb 23 10:31:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: platters In-Reply-To: <20030221204418.85208.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: One of our board members worked for a magnetic disc manufacturer early on. He mentioned that the largest he ever saw was 36". He said it would have made a very nice little coffee table. I gathered that it was not the most commonly used size. From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 23 10:37:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Wanted: DG Nova 800/2/3 system/s & peripherals In-Reply-To: <1924D5C4-45FF-11D7-B35C-000393DA76FE@tcns.co.uk> Message-ID: <000d01c2db59$997a5a20$0100a8c0@benchbox> Computer Parts Barn in Asheville, NC has several Novas, lots of peripherals, and much documentation and tapes. I helped unload a full-blown Nova4 trailerfull a couple of years ago. I have no doubt it is still there. U.S. Tel # 828-254 5963 BTW, He also has some stuff you wouldn't believe. Imsai, Sol, you name it. The fellow you are looking for is "Ed Kirby" the owner. Regards and good luck!, Jeff P.S. Tell him Jeff Worley sent you. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 7:47 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Wanted: DG Nova 800/2/3 system/s & peripherals Hi I am new to this list, and to this pastime generally. I have just realised how old I am (I know this because my 3 year old son told me), and I started thinking about how I learned about computing. Now I want to build a computing 'museum' too! So - can anyone point me in the direction of any complete (pref. working) DG Nova systems with Dasher terminals, LP/TP2 printer, gemini disks, 9 track tape, and paper tape reader/punch kit? Any-and-all offers considered! I am in London, UK but will happily travel to view/purchase this type of kit, and older (DG, Dec and other brands). Cheers Tim From at258 at osfn.org Sun Feb 23 10:40:01 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <3383.4.20.168.204.1045868259.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: I think having a 5150 would still leave two problems: Would it survive bombings, and if the Germans could get it, then obviously the British and Americans could also, though it might give the Germans a bit of a lead. More interesting would be if the Japanese had one for their nuclear programme, then we would be in deep shit, buying Japanese electronic and eating sushi now. Oh crap... On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Jim Battle wrote: > > I've had the discussion with workmates about the following scenario. If > > the German forces had access to a single 5150 IBM PC back in 1940, > > would the war have ended very differently? I think it would have. > > How? Do you have any particular scenario in mind? It seems pretty > unlikely to me. I suppose it might depend a little bit on what software > they get with the computer. But even postulating some really amazing > software (off-the-shelf commercial software, not specialized weapon- > design software), it's hard for me to imagine how one PC would have > offered them any huge advantage over the allies. > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 23 10:47:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Help with parts neede (Sun4 memory and 360k floppy drives) In-Reply-To: <3E57E806.30853.1B5DA1C@localhost> Message-ID: <000e01c2db5a$f19c7f20$0100a8c0@benchbox> Just tossing a line in the water.... Some of the ram on my Stingray VME ram card in my Sparcstation 4/330 died in my recent move. Not sure how that happens, but it did. If anyone has between four and sixteen each of 4mbyte 30 pin x 80ns or faster simms, I'd appreciate having them. I have only four good simms left for this card. At least I'm pretty sure these four are good.... I'm not sure, but I think even 100ns rams will work. I have 15 each Sun branded and working 1mbytex100nsx30 pin simms to trade to someone with an even older machine in need of ram. I broke out my extensive Atari 8-bit equipment the other day in order to help me test a ram updgrade I'm doing as a favor for a member of Comp.sys.atari.8bit. In so doing I noted I'd lost every last one of my 1/2 height, 40 track, double-sided, industry-standard floppy mechs. If anyone out there has a box laying around with at least one but I can use as many as four of these mechs, let me know. I'm really broke these days. I will of course pay shipping, but if you wish the sell the parts, please be kind in your pricing. Maybe we can work a trade. Regards, Jeff Email: (Technoid dot 30below dot com) From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 23 10:58:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c2db5c$6f9b5440$0100a8c0@benchbox> IIRC, the Germans hadn't gone very far at all in their nuclear program. They had a little heavy water, and captured some more from Poland? At the end of the war, it was noted that the Germans were thinking you'd have to drop an entire reactor on a target to do the job. They hadn't gotten to the idea of separation and small critical masses of really reactive materials. They were thinking U238.... Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Merle K. Peirce Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:37 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Trivia Question I think having a 5150 would still leave two problems: Would it survive bombings, and if the Germans could get it, then obviously the British and Americans could also, though it might give the Germans a bit of a lead. More interesting would be if the Japanese had one for their nuclear programme, then we would be in deep shit, buying Japanese electronic and eating sushi now. Oh crap... On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Jim Battle wrote: > > I've had the discussion with workmates about the following scenario. If > > the German forces had access to a single 5150 IBM PC back in 1940, > > would the war have ended very differently? I think it would have. > > How? Do you have any particular scenario in mind? It seems pretty > unlikely to me. I suppose it might depend a little bit on what software > they get with the computer. But even postulating some really amazing > software (off-the-shelf commercial software, not specialized weapon- > design software), it's hard for me to imagine how one PC would have > offered them any huge advantage over the allies. > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Feb 23 11:03:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Preserving exposed platters from corrosion and fingerprints In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c2db5d$3430f3a0$0100a8c0@benchbox> About ten years ago, my brother (also a tech) and I would take our Saturdays to shoot the hell out of the dead hard drives we'd collected during the week. I've written about this before. A bullet to a dead Seagate is really poetic justice... At any rate, Mike decided suddenly to make money on these dead drives instead of shooting them. Not nearly as much fun though... He would drive out the spindle, secure the platters, and insert a clock mech where the spindle used to be. The outer disk platter made the clock's 'face'. The look very cool. He called his 'hard time'. I told him he ought to sell them by the megabyte... The platters are very sensitive to fingerprints and other environmental contact. What is a good, quick, and cheap way to treat the platters before completing the clock that will seal and protect the platters without yellowing or cracking? Regards, jeff From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Feb 23 11:25:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: dBit / John Wilson Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAF2@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi all, See subject.. They're fine... just got word from John that although he's extremely busy, he's OK. Site was down since the last time his ISP rebooted (fri 14th) which indeed was caused by the storm. He'll check in on the site. Thanks for noticing! Cheers, Fred From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Feb 23 11:31:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: OT - was Let the witch trials... now oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > > You must be kidding. Just listen for the keywords, and you can easily > > tell them apart. Dem's are all about talking points. > > whine...whine...war for oil...whine...whine...can't cut taxes... > > whine...whine...SUV's...whine...whine...gravitas...whine...whine... > > we don't want to make Sadam angry...whine...whine... > > rigged elections...whine...whine...alien abductions...whine...whine... > > didn't...have...inappropiate...whine...whine... > > > > ...Now, can this stupid thread end? > > Disunirregardless of whether it may be correct or not, > an attack does NOT end a stupid thread, nor a war. > Does someone need to mention Hitler, or does that only work on Usenet? g. From univac2 at earthlink.net Sun Feb 23 11:55:01 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: M9312 Bootstrap Questions In-Reply-To: <8317262572.20030223023615@subatomix.com> Message-ID: on 2/23/03 2:36 AM, Jeffrey Sharp at jss@subatomix.com wrote: > Supposedly, the machine was functional when it was decommed, so my first > instinct is to assume I am (or the docs are) wrong somewhere. However, its > previous owner (another collector) was not able **IIRC** to get a register > printout at power-up. Jeff, I think I was eventually able to get the register printout, but I don't quite remember what I did to finally get there. I ask for help here on the list, and several people spent a lot of time helping me (thanks to all of them, BTW) and I believe I did finally resolve the issue. I might still have a lot of their emails telling me what to do, which might help. I also still have some of the documentation, some of which has notes jotted down specific to *that* 11/34. I don't have time to look right now, but I will today or tonight and let you know. -- Owen Robertson From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sun Feb 23 12:04:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: Preserving exposed platters from corrosion and fingerprints In-Reply-To: <000101c2db5d$3430f3a0$0100a8c0@benchbox> References: <000101c2db5d$3430f3a0$0100a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <20030223180032.5E9A025D0E@www.fastmail.fm> Ever try *guilding* them? :P On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:01:26 -0500, "Jeffrey S. Worley" said: > About ten years ago, my brother (also a tech) and I would take our > Saturdays to shoot the hell out of the dead hard drives we'd collected > during the week. I've written about this before. A bullet to a dead > Seagate is really poetic justice... > > At any rate, Mike decided suddenly to make money on these dead drives > instead of shooting them. Not nearly as much fun though... > > He would drive out the spindle, secure the platters, and insert a clock > mech where the spindle used to be. The outer disk platter made the > clock's 'face'. The look very cool. He called his 'hard time'. I told > him he ought to sell them by the megabyte... > > The platters are very sensitive to fingerprints and other environmental > contact. What is a good, quick, and cheap way to treat the platters > before completing the clock that will seal and protect the platters > without yellowing or cracking? > > Regards, > > jeff > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Feb 23 12:09:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) References: Message-ID: <3E590CDD.4010207@jetnet.ab.ca> >>> PC: no, you throw away a subsystem and get a replacement. The >>> problem here is that any given subsystem (e.g., a video card) is >>> only on the market for maybe two years; after that you can't get >>> an identical replacement. Original-spec PDP-8 replacement parts >>> were available for over 20 years. >> >>While not quite the same as 20 years, you *can* still get identical, >>new, many year old 'replacement' parts for PCs. It's probably easier to > Can you? > What about : {snip} Also I expect most computers have a life span about 3 years -- look at your typical cmos battery and More's Law. The big problem is software and firmware that you have no source for. (99% software) Ben. From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Feb 23 12:17:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c2db67$3eb44070$cb87fe3e@athlon> > I haev tired and failed several times to get service data for Compaq > machines.... How did you manage it? I do have a set of tech manuals for Compaq 80286 products. It includes schematics etc. I don't recall who gave it to me, but it looked like it was available for purchase by anyone. Of course, the 80286 era was some time ago and it may not be possible to obtain such information at all now. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 23 12:26:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:13 2005 Subject: OT: Unmolested neighbors (was: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 4 In-Reply-To: <3E585E9D.5090305@eoni.com> Message-ID: > > When has the U.S. attacked it's neighbor? > > Last I heard Canada and Mexico are unmolested. And Remember the Alamo! (attempt to take land from Mexico by "settlers") Remember the Maine! (retaliation for "terrorism" that later was found to be mechanical malfunction) > > before you bring up stuff that's 100's of years old, > > you can't address stuff that old with todays mores. Yeah. We've changed. From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Feb 23 13:04:15 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: G.W.Bush a liar? In-Reply-To: <20030223144301.38447.71434.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030223184700.13466.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> > Well, I was trying to be good and not pique the ire > of my neighbors to the south in my mother's and > wife's birthplace, but I find I can't hold my peace > at the incredible amount of BS, most of which is > parroting the Bush administrations lies and more > damnedable lies. I'm not aware of ANY lies by the current administration, no less "lies and more damnedable lies" Also, you can't hold this administration responsible for the misdeeds of past administrations. In fact, I'd call the previous administration one of the most dishonest and criminal administrations this country has ever had. Luckily our system of government is such that people like this cannot remain in power for too long. As for the rest of what you say, I don't have any data for or against it. America is a representative republic. Not quite a democracy. And yes, the government does things that the people don't necessarily like or agree to. Given that, I still believe we have the free-est and best form of government on the planet. It is not corruption or mistake free. Nor is it free of the normal human expressions of greed, ego, hatred, and agression. It's still head and shoulders above all other government systems on the planet. Considering the broad areas in which the U.S. is invlolved in, the huge amount of AID it gives to the rest of the world, you have to see that basically we are a good country. I would like it to be perfect, but that's not possible in human affairs. It could certainly be better. And what I like about Bush and his administration is that he got right to the task of setting right all the wrongs of previous administrations he could find and fix. I know he will be relected in 2004 with a landslide. It's a shame he can't run for a third term. Cheney will probably not be able (or willing) to run for President in 2008. Before the election, and before I saw Bush in action. I was sure he'd be a one term President and that Hillary Clinton or maybe Al Gore would run in 2004 and take back the Presidency for the Democrats. Now, I'm sure that won't happen. It's amazing that you can call a liar, a man whose reputation is largely made by his truthfulness and trustworthyness. As Governor of Texas he kept most all of his promises. And left the state in a much better condition than it was when he took office. You may not like his policies, or his decisions. But, that doesn't make him a liar. Regards, Al From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 23 13:05:19 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: IBM-PC Technical Reference Manuals (was: "Real Computers") In-Reply-To: <20030223165145.GK12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > The "PC Technical Reference Manual" was cheap, and contained > > complete schematics and source code for the BIOS. Third party > > There was a technical reference manual for PC-DOS as well as the > technical reference manual for the hardware... I got both of them when > IBM was still selling the original PeeCees, but they were, for some > odd reason, difficult to obtain even back then (e.g., various people > at IBM denied that they existed... and if you really wanted to have The content was the same as what had previously (up through PC-DOS 2.00) been the Appendix of the DOS manual. In fact, the first few rounds of it still had "Appendix" page numbers. Were you dealing with an "IBM Product Center", or with an "IBM Authorized Sales Center" (aka Computerland, Sears Business Center, etc.)? I never had any difficulty getting them, other than having to order them, and sometimes prepay. But Computerland, etc. were clueless and unwilling to do their job. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 23 13:06:06 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > I've had the discussion with workmates about the following scenario. If > > > the German forces had access to a single 5150 IBM PC back in 1940, > > > would the war have ended very differently? I think it would have. ... and if the allies had had Windoze in 1940, then we'd now be arguing in German. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 23 13:06:51 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <000001c2db5c$6f9b5440$0100a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: > At the end of the war, it was noted that the Germans were thinking you'd > have to drop an entire reactor on a target to do the job. They hadn't > gotten to the idea of separation and small critical masses of really > reactive materials. They were thinking U238.... Why not just drop PCs? From revmrf at kingcon.com Sun Feb 23 13:07:37 2003 From: revmrf at kingcon.com (Martin Fors) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Visual Computer Inc. Commuter US Message-ID: I have a Visual Commuter laptop which I purchased new and still works. It's stored securely in a closet. Unfortunately, I didn't purchased a LCD display for it. Would you by chance know where I may purchased an LCD? From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 23 13:08:21 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 1 Level II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 21 February 2003 19:18 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: TRS80 Model 1 Level II > > > With Z3 pulled I got @9 again (after double checking the ROMs were in > > place!). I pulled Z71 as well and got @S. Remember, styrofoam eats MOS > > What does it do if you pull Z71 with Z3 still in place? That's what I meant when I said I'd pulled Z71 out - a screenful of @S. Didn't explain it right did I :) I haven't tried both jumpers out though. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From dstalnaker at mindspring.com Sun Feb 23 13:09:16 2003 From: dstalnaker at mindspring.com (Debbie Stalnaker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Data Peripheral Disk Drive Message-ID: I am looking for a functioning Data Pheripheral DP100 8 inch removeable disk drive. Any ideas where I might find one? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Debbie From badoni_nk at yahoo.com Sun Feb 23 13:10:02 2003 From: badoni_nk at yahoo.com (nk badoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Transfer of Files From RSX-11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030222175340.75354.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Hello John How are you. Sorry for late writing. I was out of station for last couple of days only today I joined my work. John I am unlucky I do not have the Kermit S/W in my winchester disk. Is it necessary to load any communication S/W like Kermit in the winchester disk, because I also can not load any S/W in my winchester disk. Now I think I am in trouble. Fortunately I also have VanDyke's CRT404 with me & I can load this in my WINnt PC. ====================================================== > Then, find the > file(s) you want, and use the RSK 'type' command to > list them to the port > you are attached (logically and physically) to. Use > your terminal > program's "logging" or "screen capture" function, > and... there you are! ===================================================== Sorry please I could not understand your avobe sentence. What you mean by """"use the RSK 'type' command to list them to the port you are attached (logically and physically) to. Use your terminal program's "logging" or "screen capture" function,"""" Could you please tell me the process/commands in detail how to use this software & which is the sutiable cable (RS232) to link these two PC's. It would be great help from you side. Best regards Kishore --- John Lawson wrote: > > > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, nk badoni wrote: > > > Hello John > > > > Thank you very much for your kind reply. > > > > Yes it is a complete system. > > Ah... this makes the process *much* easier! A > bit of info now would > be: what is the model of your DEC system? (ie PDP > 11/23, VAX 11/750, > PRO350... etc) > > > > > I have checked Kermit but I could not find this > S/W > > there. Might be my process was wrong. > > > Hmmm... a lot of RSX systems had Kermit as part > of the Distribution > Kit.. you can try: > > MCR> DIR kerm*.*,* > > but if your disk is big and you CPU slow, this can > take upto an hour to > complete. > > > OR, you can use a Terminal Emulating program on > your Wintel machine (I > use VanDyke's CRT on my IBM Thinkpad running Win2K). > Then, find the > file(s) you want, and use the RSK 'type' command to > list them to the port > you are attached (logically and physically) to. Use > your terminal > program's "logging" or "screen capture" function, > and... there you are! > The files are safe on your PC. (This assumes you > have a multi-port set of > serial terminal connectors attached to the computer. > This procedure can > also be done using the PC terminal emulator attached > to the DEC system > console port. The object is to list the files as an > ASCII stream and > capture that listing on the PC's HD. > > > This will work with any storage media on your DEC > computer, HDs or > Floppies, by the way. > > Please write to the classiccmp list during this > process, and we will all > try to help out as much as possible. > > I will also forward this correspondence to the > List. > > Cheers > > John From vance at neurotica.com Sun Feb 23 13:10:48 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Off-topic (John Allain: do not read) Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #472 - 25 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > And you are also one of the people who think America is the one who > > > should make the rules for everyone. *sigh* *shakes head* > > > > > > This country does many things of which I am ashamed. Anyone whose > > > told me otherwise have never come up with any proof. > > > > Based on the off-list conversation we had, it's much more likely you > > decided not to listen to the proof... > > Based on the off-list exchanges we had, your "proof" was most likely > merely jingoistic non-sequiturs that Sridhar would have probably found > as stupid as I did. What he doesn't realize is he is now a permanent resident of my ignore list. He actually had the audacity to quote the ten commandments to someone whose religious beliefs and oaths contradict many of them, and try to say that it should be the basis for international law. He causes me much nausea. Peace... Sridhar From jrengdahl at safeaccess.com Sun Feb 23 13:11:33 2003 From: jrengdahl at safeaccess.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Ersatz-11 gone? Message-ID: <019001c2dabd$3cf3cd00$8a00a8c0@arctura> I can't reach www.dbit.com, home of the Ersatz-11 (E11) PDP-11 emulator by John Wilson. Has this gone away? -- Jonathan Engdahl From vance at neurotica.com Sun Feb 23 13:12:18 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > If you don't want to use mere programmability as the line between a > > calculator and a computer, then > > One 'working definition' that is commonly used for a (digital, > electronic) computer is that it is user-programmable. That is to say the > user can write a list of instructions that are then executed > automatically. > > The calculators we're considering have this feature (the HP65, IIRC, > will remember 100 'program steps' (essentially functions from the > calculator keyboard) and will then execute them. There are unconditional > and conditional branches, which means you can have loops). There were > earlier non-programmable pocket calculators, but I don't class those as > computers (even though the HP35 had the same CPU architecture as the > HP65, and ran an intenral firmware program to make it act as a > calculator -- it wasn't hardwaired logic. But it wasn't _user_ > programmable). I certainly consider my TI-92+ a computer. I run unix on it. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sun Feb 23 13:13:03 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > If I write a PC emulator that runs on a real computer, does the > > computer become not real? > > No, and conversely, if you run a real-computer-emulator on a PC, the PC > does not become real. Personally, I don't think any emulated system is a real computer. Even if you emulate a real computer on a real computer, the emulated system, I think, isn't a real computer. For instance, if I were to run SIMH under Linux/390 to emulate a VAX, I would still consider the S/390 to be a real computer, but I don't think I'd consider the emulated VAX as one. Peace... Sridhar From doc at docsbox.net Sun Feb 23 13:13:51 2003 From: doc at docsbox.net (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > 1) Yes. I built it; I can fix it. > > You have proper service data for all the parts in that PC? I am truely > amazed (I thought I was about the only person to have that ;-)). Or does > 'built' really mean 'assembled from cards'? OK, I have to take issue here. If I pop a piston on my lawn mower, I'm not about to bust off a lathe and a mill and turn a new piston and hand-fitted rod. I go buy one at Sears. This makes me really an oddball, because most owners of a $125 mower would put it out by the curb and buy a new one. I just like a machine that I "built". Even so, if Sears can't get the piston on a timely basis, or if the cost is equal to a new mower, *I* will put the old one by the curb. OTOH, my '83 BMW R65 needs a new set of carbs. They've both started cracking from poor design, vibration, and rough handling. I could buy new aftermarket carburetors that would probably enhance the performance, definitely last longer and be cheaper easier to tune than the originals, and be here next Friday. Lawn mower = Tool, worth care but not personal involvement R65 = Love object, useful, but personally valued FAR beyond its function They're both internal combustion machines at heart, they both serve legitimate functions. Yet the criteria that govern how I treat them, how I maintain them, and at what point they are scrap are first entirely different, and second, entirely personal and subjective. Most importantly, those criteraia are absolutely arbitrary. I'm sure you catch my drift. My mower is no less useful or valid by virtue of being disposable. And the fact that I would have custom carbs built for the Beemer before I'd put Japanese knovkoffs on it doesn't mean that the japanese carbs have no value OR that I should treat my mower the same way. Within hand's reach I have a Mac IIci, a new-to-me PDP-11/83 CPU, an Indigo2, an Altos 580, a DEC3000/300x, an HP 9000/715, a Sun E250 and an Athlon PC. OK, I gotta stretch to put my hand on the Altos and the Sparc. I love the Alpha and the Mac, am glad I had the chance to try the Altos, and am fixing to go blaze through my yardwork so I can install this 11/83 board. All of them have *legitimate* value, and they are all computers. The PC I use. A lot. But when it blows a board-level chip, it's going to the curb. The fact that I don't love it doesn't lessen its legitimacy. Doc From doc at docsbox.net Sun Feb 23 13:14:38 2003 From: doc at docsbox.net (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Stupid war babble (was Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > > > Based on the off-list exchanges we had, your "proof" > > > was most likely merely jingoistic non-sequiturs > > > that Sridhar would have probably found as stupid as > > > I did. > > > > Being that you haven't read said reply, you can't possibly make a > > comment on them. I notice, as usual you stoop to personal attacks rather > > than discuss the issue. > > How can I not call you an idiot? Look, I believe firmly that everyone has NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER GODWIN'S FSCKING LAW! Doc > a right to believe what they want. But when what you believe puts others' > (in this case tens, probably even hundreds of thousands of others') lives > in jeopardy, I am going to call it like it is. You think a few thousand > dead Iraqi's is fine as long as it, in your twisted logic, somehow saves > American lives. Not only are you wrong, your premise is wrong, the > so-called "facts" that you are basing your opinions on are wrong, the > people you are putting your trust into are wrong, and they are lying to > you, and you are completely, totally, unequivocally blind to this. I call > that idiocy. > > > > Look, every time you open your mouth you contradict > > > yourself. When will you realize that everything > > > you ascribe as the reasons for which we want > > > to go to Iraq, the US has committed the same? Are > > > you seriously this dense? > > > > And what contradiction. > > > > When has the U.S. attacked it's neighbor? > > Do you know how to read?? Open up a fucking history book for once! I'm > not your god damn history teacher, and anything I tell you you're going to > deny anyway, so what's the fucking point!? WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT!!? > > > Last I heard Canada and Mexico are unmolested. And before you bring up > > stuff that's 100's of years old, you can't address stuff that old with > > todays mores. > > Panama, 1989 > Grenada, 1983 > > Need any more examples? > > How about just about every central American country mired in deadly > conflict throughout the 1960-1980 timeframe, with collectively millions of > civilians totured or killed through puppet regimes of the US or third > party elements acting on behalf of the US. > > Will you wave this off also? I can't wait for your reply! > > > Iraq attacked it's neighbors in modern times, with modern weapons. > > Blahdaddyfuckingblah! WHO CARES!? We didn't even give a shit about the > Kuwaiti's until they begged us to come save their stupid asses! And we > certainly didn't and still do not give a shit about the Iranians, and our > wonderful ally Turkey doesn't give a shit about the Kurds, and so you can > bet the US doesn't either!! Israel attacked Iraq. Israel also attacks > what was supposed to be sovereign Palestinian territory on a daily, almost > HOURLY basis. Israel is one of, if not THE, most blatant and unrepentive > human rights violators on the planet Earth! Yet the US (i.e. your tax > dollars, i.e. YOU) supports them through it all! > > WHAT IS THIS IMMORAL HYPOCRISY!? What is your answer to that!??? > > > When Iraq AGREED to disarm, to not own or develop weapons of mass > > destruction, and then broke those agreements. That's where the problem > > lies. > > Control freak. > > WHO CARES!? It's a UNITED NATIONS problem! NOT a UNITED STATES problem! > > > It's not about "control" or being a "control freak". > > Yes, it is! > > > Adults make agreements and keep them. > > Maybe in your elemntary school yard world, but last I checked, the United > States has broken NUMEROUS agreements, including international treaties > on the environment and certain weapons bans. What have you got to say > about that!? ANSWER THE QUESTION! > > > That's the only way world affairs can work. Treaties and agreements have > > to be kept, and there must be trust that they will be. > > HYPOCRITE!! STUPID FUCKING UNRELENTINGLY MORONIC HYPOCRITE!!! > > > When they are broken, they must be enforced. Otherwise the entire house > > of cards based on agreements and "word" collapses. > > HYPOCRITE!!! > > > That leads to chaos. > > My head is going to explode. > > > > > Nobody wants war, but in case such as this... This > > > > war will prevent the deaths of millions. Not only > > > > by Iraq and Hussein, but by others in the future > > > > who will take this example to embolden themselves > > > > to do evil without fear of retribution. > > > > > > Contradiction. > > > > None that I can see. > > Of course not, because you're an idiot. This is not a personal attack. > This is my sincere, educated assessment of your level of critical thinking > ability. I honestly classify you as an idiot. > > > It's a common tactic of people who are unable to have intelligent > > discussions of issues. > > That's funny. That's really funny. You know, there was a study about a > year ago that found that incompetent people are not capable of realizing > their own incompetence. In their minds, they perceive themselves to be > more competent than they actually are. > > > Instead of discussing the issue or facts, and keeping the discussion on > > that level. You attack the person directly. > > YOU GIVE ME NOTHING ELSE TO ATTACK! Everything you say I heard on > yesterday's news, and even then it was bullshit! Give me an original > argument that actually makes sense and I might just respond cordially! > > > I could be the world's worst idiot. > > OH, DO YA THINK!? DO YA THINK MAYBE, HUH!? > > > But, if I was speaking a truth... What difference does that make? > > > > I could be a drooling idiot and point up and burble > > "Sky.. Blue..." > > > > The fact that I could be an idiot, doesn't change the > > fact that sky is indeed blue. > > Oh...my...god. Oh...my...fucking...god. > > > So keep the discussion on the facts, rather than making personal > > attacks. When you do this, you rob yourself of any power, and ability to > > have your opinions considered and respected, and convince people that > > they must be indeed, invalid since you needed to make a personal attack. > > Ok, you're right. Throughout the past 10 or so grueling messages I have > written to you, I have not once provided any facts whatsoever. I have, > unlike you, just been spewing babble and recycled rhetoric that I borrowed > straight from the lips of some talking head on TV. I'm sorry. > > I'm going to go shoot myself now. From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Feb 23 13:15:26 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Replying to Lawrence. In-Reply-To: <20030223144301.38447.71434.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030223185506.66968.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> > I will say this about you Al, you do consistently > trumpet the bullies logic and the administrations > spin without embarassment. You would have fit in > very comfortably with the US supporters of Nazi > Germany. Thankfully your type is still a minority > at this time in the US. > > Lawrence I'm sorry but none of the above is true. Unlike the Clinton adminstration there is no spin here. It's all the truth, and policy based on hundreds of years of human history observed. You should be ashamed of resorting to trick of comparing me, Bush or ANYONE to Nazi Germany, or Germans (I am also of German descent, and proud of that. Though not proud of Germany in the beginning years of the 20th Century). It's just low. Luckly, I don't take it personally because it's on the same level (and as funny to me) as "Yo Momma!" And I'm NOT in the minority. Given the approval rating for the war, AND the President I'm in the majority. Though Liberals would like Conservatives to think they are kooks and marginalized in the population. The truth is, that we're not. Thanks anyway. Al From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 23 13:17:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <20030223163144.GJ12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > etc... > It's all relative, or so it appears... however, there is one thing > that perhaps most of us can agree on when it comes to defining what a > "real" computer is or isn't: surely we all know that a "real" computer > is not some random PeeCee (or larger server wannabee, which is still > probably a Wintel PeeCee deep down inside) running some random > Micro$oft operating system. But the Wintel adherent prob'ly thinks that his PC is more REAL than some valve (tube) based mainframe. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sun Feb 23 13:27:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Godwin's Law (was Stupid war babble (was Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1046028228.30187.23.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Sun, 2003-02-23 at 04:46, Doc Shipley wrote: > > NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI > > HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER > > > GODWIN'S FSCKING LAW! Unfortunately, Godwin's law does not take effect if the "Hitler" clause is invoked for the express ending of the thread. Ref: The Jargon Dictionary Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 23 13:32:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <3E57E35C.15707.1A3A0CC@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote: > OK, that does it. I'm gonna trade all my micros > in on a main frame. I want that notoriety !! > And I can gut the second floor for headspace. a good start! I'm envious. I wish that I could do so these days. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 23 13:38:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Floppy Drive In-Reply-To: <20030223041054.63775.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > I always preferred Tandon TM-100 drives. They needed a > lot less service and maintenance than the SA400's did. > And I always liked having the extra 5 tracks. I agree I really like those drives. The pins that hinge the doors don't hold up well to the abuse of a college lab (unless you catch the culprits and break their fingers), but without that abuse, they hold up very well. > Unless you have one for him, or someone on the list... > eBay may be his best bet. I've got a few boxes of drives, but no more extras - when I closed up my office, I sold them off, as well as all of my TRS-80s. > The other thing about SA400 drives, is to make sure he > isn't using a patched version of TRSDOS or NewDos/80 > or whatever... ... there are also patches for DS, and for 80 track, . . . > Boy, those were the days... They sure were. (except for some of the politics :-) From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 23 13:44:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: OT - was Let the witch trials... now oil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Gene Buckle wrote: > Does someone need to mention Hitler, or does that only work on Usenet? Apparently just on Usenet. Papa Bush frequently tried to compare Saddam to Hitler, and it didn't stop that rhetoric. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 23 13:55:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <3E585773.30825.3692D93@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 23, 3 05:09:07 am Message-ID: > A good part of my collection are boards, chips, drives, > and other old equipment that is not easily available now. Sure... I've got _boxes_ of obscure spare parts (but I never seem to have the one I really need...) > I think most collectors also have these, as well as a > second model of their most treasured computer in case > some part becomes no longer available. > As a compulsive packrat I even have a stash of tubes > for the few remaining tube gear that I have. And also Actually, valves seem to be a lot easier to find that ASICs for 5-year-old PCs... :-) [...] > But all of that goes with the territory we stake. The claim was that parts for 'old' PCs were still easy to find new. Even if you take 'parts' in the PC-goon sense to mean PCBs, drives, etc I still find this hard to believe. There are many subassemblies once commonly used in PCs that are no longer available new... Actually, I can't remember the last time I saw an AT (as opposed to ATX) PSU or case listed by the PC suppliers... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 23 13:56:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <3E585773.9812.3692D69@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 23, 3 05:09:07 am Message-ID: > I think it is totally unrealistic to expect to find a > schematic for any of the newer machines. I am Alas I agree with you. However, the claim was that the machine was completely documented and could be repaired (or soemthing like that). To me complete repair documentation includes (but is not limited to) a schematic. > thankful when I can even find a user guide for them. > > I In that respect Compaq isn't bad compared to most. > II was delighted to find an exploded parts diagram > for my Compaq LTE lite 4/33c. The whole thrust > of even the Compaq techs is simply component > replacement-board or part switching. It may not be > to our liking but that is the reality in this era. This doesm't mean I have to like it :-). In fact considering the number of expensive devices that were beyond economic reapir (the spare subassembly was rediculously expensive) but which I've fixed with one cheap component and perhaps half an hour of my time, I have good reason to dislike board-swapping. This is secondary, of course, to the number of problems that boardswapping causes, and the even greater number it fails to fix. I like to know what the problem really was, and know it's corrected. > Schematics are for the specialised field of computer > design and not necessary from their point of view. So don't give the failed servoids sechematics. But do make them available for those of us who know how to use one... > "You want to replace a capacitor ? You must be joking. > That is a job for small-fingered oriental women" Odd.... I handle parts a lot smaller than the capacitors on PC cards just about every day without problems... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 23 13:56:44 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Misterious DEC-Module M7071 In-Reply-To: from "Frank Arnold" at Feb 23, 3 03:32:08 pm Message-ID: > Hi, > > I got a strange board in recentley. Made by DEC, Quad-heigh, Dual-width, only > one double sided 2x18 pin edge-connector that is snmaller as usual, aperantley > carrying only power-supply connections. Has some 80 SSI/MSI TTL-chips, one prom > 19-10818-02, and 10pcs 93l422 256kx4 ram's. Chips have 1979 date codes. > > The strange thing about this board is, that there is hardley any external > connections, there is 1 (one) split-lug terminal, and one 16 pole IC-socket, as > normalley used for automated testing signal connection. > > On the solderside there is the wording: "Waveform Generator" and 5012514F-P1 Ah yes.. The board with the misleading name... I think I know what it is -- heck I think I can find the printset for it. > > Who knows what this board is, and what it does? In what equipment was it used? It fits into a VT100 (there's a little backplane that goes with it that connects to the edge connector on the terminal logic board and to the harness to the PSU/monitor) and turns it into a VT105. There's also a 16 (?) pin DIP jumper cable that connects between the 2 boards. What it does is display 1 or 2 'waveforms' on the VT100. That is to say you can define 2 points in each vertical dot column of the display, thus displaying a graph of up to 2 mathematical functions. You can either display just that point (for a normal graph) or all dots below it (for a barchart/histogram). althought it was very limited in the kind of things you could display, it gave a fairly high resolution with very little memory, and was ideal for the target application. I think the VT105 was standard on the MINC, etc. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 23 13:57:30 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <002f01c2db1d$94cea3a0$0100000a@milkyway> from "Philip Pemberton" at Feb 23, 3 09:26:01 am Message-ID: > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > The "PC Technical Reference Manual" was cheap, and contained > > complete schematics and source code for the BIOS. Third party > > "disassemblies" being sold by third parties are NOT comparable! > It's interesting you mentioned the IBM PC TRM - is that the same thing as > the so-called "purple book" I've read so much about (mostly in long-since Yes... In fact I have a mini-purple-wall :-). The Techrefs for : PC PC/XT and PortablePC PC/AT (2 volumes) Options and Adapters (2 volumes) Scientific Options and Adapters (I've also put the EGA stuff in that binder) PCjr PS/2 Hardware (this one contains no schematics, but it does have pinouts, and it was given to me so I am not moaning). Initially the PC techref contained the info on the options (monitors, printers, drives) and adapters (expansion cards). Later on, the 'system' TechRefs covered the motherboard and keyboard only, there were separate manuals for the options and adapters. A basic 2-volume set + supplements. > deceased webpages Google have cached)? I'm trying to track down a copy of > the original IBM PC Technical Reference and any updates to it (3.5" drive > support in the BIOS, etc). Anyone got a copy they want to sell? About 8 years ago, I was in the same position. I couldn't find anyone who had a 'spare' copy (most likely those who have it still want it -- for good reasons) so I did what I should have done in the first place. I phoned IBM. It was out of print, but they still had it in stock. Of course I bought all the manuals I wanted. Not cheap, but not rediculously expensive (I think about \pounds 50 for each volume) either. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 23 13:58:17 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <003701c2db1f$1ffdefc0$0100000a@milkyway> from "Philip Pemberton" at Feb 23, 3 09:37:04 am Message-ID: > >> One thing I'm slightly suprised about is that you're not claiming > >> that it's easy to service 'real computers' at the component level. > >> Of course, > > That is one definition of 'real computer' that I sometimes use :-) > Can you rework 8-layer PC motherboards then? I don't see why not. I've reworked multi-layer boards before -- I think the bigest I ever did was 14 layer. SMD doesn't worry me either. BGA packages do -- at the moment! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 23 13:59:03 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: IBM-PC Technical Reference Manuals (was: "Real Computers") In-Reply-To: <20030223165145.GK12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 23, 3 11:51:46 am Message-ID: > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > The "PC Technical Reference Manual" was cheap, and contained > > complete schematics and source code for the BIOS. Third party > > There was a technical reference manual for PC-DOS as well as the > technical reference manual for the hardware... I got both of them when > IBM was still selling the original PeeCees, but they were, for some > odd reason, difficult to obtain even back then (e.g., various people I had a totally different experience. Long after the PC was discontinued, I tried to order these manuals. I managed to find the IBM 'form numbers' for them. I 'phoned the first number for IBM in the telephone directory and said 'I would like the phone number for the department that sells manuals for personal computers' 'I can put you through to thrm' 'Hello, I would like to find out if some old IBM manuals are still available, and if so, how much do they cost. I have the form numbers' 'OK, please give me the form numbers' 'They are all out of print, but we still have stocks. The prices are , they would have to be orderd from the States and would take 4-6 weeks to come' 'Fine. Do you take credit cards' 'Sure' 'I would like to order all the manuals I asked about. My address is
, my credit card number is ' 'You should receive them in 4-6 weeks. Thank you for your order' And I did. All the manuals I'd asked for. No problems at all. > at IBM denied that they existed... and if you really wanted to have > fun with IBM's biz'droids, you could telephone IBM and ask them what > "wet bulb temperature," as specified in the machine's I do not expect the person I deal with to order manuals or parts to have any clue about what's in the manuals, or what the parts really are. Provided they can take a list of part numbers, give me a price the 1-line description from their stock control computer (so I don't accidentally get a motherboard when I want a techref because I've got the wrong part number) and get them sent to me, that's all I expect. -tony From brianmahoney at look.ca Sun Feb 23 14:03:00 2003 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Collectors List References: <20030223184700.13466.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002701c2db76$27875680$0400a8c0@look.ca> Several years ago I set up a list of collectors on the TC3 site, which some of you may remember. Subsequent to that site being shut down by its host, I moved the list to my personal site at the following url: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ The collector's list is reached from a link on the main page and resides at this url : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collectors.htm The reason for this message is to request that anyone who is on this list, contact me HERE : antiquecomputers@hotmail.com to update their information. I have recently sent out an email to all person on the list, but find that almost everyone has moved ... email address anyway. If anyone reading this wishes to be put on the list, I would be glad to add their name and information, just be sure to format it the same way it is on the list. (None of this benefits me in any way, if anyone is wondering. However, since I receive email almost every day originating from my site, it is a constant source of information and resources for me. When someone has a computer for sale or donation, they frequently email me and I refer them back to the site to see if there is a collector near them. Most, of course, are from the states and many, many of the requests are for good homes for donated computers.) PLEASE don't contact me through the list, use antiquecomputers@hotmail.com only. I will repost this a couple more times, unless someone really finds it useless. From brianmahoney at look.ca Sun Feb 23 14:06:00 2003 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Collectors List References: Message-ID: <004301c2db76$8fe700e0$0400a8c0@look.ca> Several years ago I set up a list of collectors on the TC3 site, which some of you may remember. Subsequent to that site being shut down by its host, I moved the list to my personal site at the following url: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ The collector's list is reached from a link on the main page and resides at this url : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collectors.htm The reason for this message is to request that anyone who is on this list, contact me HERE : antiquecomputers@hotmail.com to update their information. I have recently sent out an email to all person on the list, but find that almost everyone has moved ... email address anyway. If anyone reading this wishes to be put on the list, I would be glad to add their name and information, just be sure to format it the same way it is on the list. (None of this benefits me in any way, if anyone is wondering. However, since I receive email almost every day originating from my site, it is a constant source of information and resources for me. When someone has a computer for sale or donation, they frequently email me and I refer them back to the site to see if there is a collector near them. Most, of course, are from the states and many, many of the requests are for good homes for donated computers.) PLEASE don't contact me through the list, use antiquecomputers@hotmail.com only. I will repost this a couple more times, unless someone really finds it useless. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 23 14:17:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Please be careful with attribution. I mentioned the "PC Technical Reference Manual", but the "purple book" reference that you responded to was by somebody else in response to my post. On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > The "PC Technical Reference Manual" was cheap, and contained > > > complete schematics and source code for the BIOS. Third party > > > "disassemblies" being sold by third parties are NOT comparable! > > It's interesting you mentioned the IBM PC TRM - is that the same thing as > > the so-called "purple book" I've read so much about (mostly in long-since > > Yes... In fact I have a mini-purple-wall :-). The Techrefs for : > > PC > PC/XT and PortablePC > PC/AT (2 volumes) > Options and Adapters (2 volumes) > Scientific Options and Adapters (I've also put the EGA stuff in that binder) > PCjr > PS/2 Hardware (this one contains no schematics, but it does have pinouts, > and it was given to me so I am not moaning). > > Initially the PC techref contained the info on the options (monitors, > printers, drives) and adapters (expansion cards). Later on, the 'system' > TechRefs covered the motherboard and keyboard only, there were separate > manuals for the options and adapters. A basic 2-volume set + supplements. > > > deceased webpages Google have cached)? I'm trying to track down a copy of > > the original IBM PC Technical Reference and any updates to it (3.5" drive > > support in the BIOS, etc). Anyone got a copy they want to sell? > > About 8 years ago, I was in the same position. I couldn't find anyone who > had a 'spare' copy (most likely those who have it still want it -- for > good reasons) so I did what I should have done in the first place. I > phoned IBM. It was out of print, but they still had it in stock. Of > course I bought all the manuals I wanted. Not cheap, but not rediculously > expensive (I think about \pounds 50 for each volume) either. > > -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 23 14:20:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: IBM-PC Technical Reference Manuals (was: "Real Computers") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Please be careful with attribution. I mentioned the "PC Technical Reference Manual", but the reference to the DOS technical reference, and the complaint about ordering from IBM, that you responded to, was by somebody else in response to my post. I have never had any problems ordering from IBM, although I very rarely do so. On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > The "PC Technical Reference Manual" was cheap, and contained > > > complete schematics and source code for the BIOS. Third party > > > > There was a technical reference manual for PC-DOS as well as the > > technical reference manual for the hardware... I got both of them when > > IBM was still selling the original PeeCees, but they were, for some > > odd reason, difficult to obtain even back then (e.g., various people > > I had a totally different experience. > > Long after the PC was discontinued, I tried to order these manuals. I > managed to find the IBM 'form numbers' for them. > > I 'phoned the first number for IBM in the telephone directory and said > > 'I would like the phone number for the department that sells manuals for > personal computers' > 'I can put you through to thrm' > 'Hello, I would like to find out if some old IBM manuals are still > available, and if so, how much do they cost. I have the form numbers' > 'OK, please give me the form numbers' > > 'They are all out of print, but we still have stocks. The prices are > , they would have to be orderd from the States and would > take 4-6 weeks to come' > 'Fine. Do you take credit cards' > 'Sure' > 'I would like to order all the manuals I asked about. My address is >
, my credit card number is public mailing list...>' > 'You should receive them in 4-6 weeks. Thank you for your order' > > And I did. All the manuals I'd asked for. No problems at all. > > > at IBM denied that they existed... and if you really wanted to have > > fun with IBM's biz'droids, you could telephone IBM and ask them what > > "wet bulb temperature," as specified in the machine's > > I do not expect the person I deal with to order manuals or parts to have > any clue about what's in the manuals, or what the parts really are. > Provided they can take a list of part numbers, give me a price the 1-line > description from their stock control computer (so I don't accidentally > get a motherboard when I want a techref because I've got the wrong part > number) and get them sent to me, that's all I expect. > > -tony From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 23 14:26:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Info wanted: IBM vacuum tube digital computer demonstrator In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030223102032.0f1f825e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > Can anyone tell me more about this thing or even (HOPEFULLY) have a > manual for it? Hi Joe. What you have is fairly rare and very unique. I still have not figured out what it was exactly used for, but it is definitely a trainer. It seems to me to have been a kit given to customers of IBM as a token of appreciation for business. I've come across 2 of these. One was owned by a friend locally, the other was bought off eBay for a local collector. I appraised the second one when the collector donated his collection to the Computer History Museum. The appraisal was in the thousands of dollars. Here are some responses that the first owner I referred to solicited from various people (whose names should all be familiar): http://home.pacbell.net/mmetzler/treasure.txt And here's his page about it: http://home.pacbell.net/mmetzler/vacuum.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Feb 23 14:26:46 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Godwin's Law (was Stupid war babble (was Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs)) In-Reply-To: <1046028228.30187.23.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: On 23 Feb 2003, Christopher McNabb wrote: > On Sun, 2003-02-23 at 04:46, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > > NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI > > > > HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER > > > > > > GODWIN'S FSCKING LAW! > > Unfortunately, Godwin's law does not take effect if the "Hitler" clause > is invoked for the express ending of the thread. I'm aware of that. But at some point ignoring a runaway thread becomes impossible. My options are bloating my killfile (which won't work since they keep changing the subject line), flaming people, or making fun of the whole damned thing. If the participants in this thread could see how hard they're pegging the Senseless Meter, they'd have to pie their *own* faces. That applies to the arguments and views I vehemently agree with, as well as the intrinsically stupid ones. <> Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Feb 23 14:28:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Godwin's Law (was Stupid war babble (was Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs)) In-Reply-To: <1046028228.30187.23.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: On 23 Feb 2003, Christopher McNabb wrote: > On Sun, 2003-02-23 at 04:46, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > > NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI > > > > HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER > > > > > > GODWIN'S FSCKING LAW! > > Unfortunately, Godwin's law does not take effect if the "Hitler" clause > is invoked for the express ending of the thread. Or: I know, but somebody had to do it. :^) IMHO, HTH, HAND, RTFM, TMTOWTDIR, TANJ, WTF, ETC. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 23 14:36:13 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > Yes... In fact I have a mini-purple-wall :-). The Techrefs for : > > PC If you have a choice, get the "version 2.02" (round white sticker on spine). It has substantial updates and a few corrections from the original, and contains some accessory boards that weren't around for the first edition > > PS/2 Hardware (this one contains no schematics, but it does have pinouts, > > and it was given to me so I am not moaning). In addition to no longer having schematics, the PS/2 manuals also no longer have source code for the BIOS! They do have fairly nice detail for calling BIOS routines (contained in the opening comments for each section in the source), but it's just not the same as having the full source. From doc at docsbox.net Sun Feb 23 14:37:02 2003 From: doc at docsbox.net (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Godwin's Law (was Stupid war babble (was Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs)) In-Reply-To: <1046028228.30187.23.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: On 23 Feb 2003, Christopher McNabb wrote: > On Sun, 2003-02-23 at 04:46, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > > NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI > > > > HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER > > > > > > GODWIN'S FSCKING LAW! > > Unfortunately, Godwin's law does not take effect if the "Hitler" clause > is invoked for the express ending of the thread. I'm aware of that. But at some point ignoring a runaway thread becomes impossible. My options are bloating my killfile (which won't work since they keep changing the subject line), flaming people, or making fun of the whole damned thing. If the participants in this thread could see how hard the senseless meter is pegging, they'd have to pie their *own* faces. That applies to the arguments and views I vehemently agree with, as well as the intrinsically stupid ones. <> Doc From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Feb 23 14:43:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Ersatz-11 gone? References: <019001c2dabd$3cf3cd00$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <3E593176.2207A45A@compsys.to> >Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > I can't reach www.dbit.com, home of the Ersatz-11 (E11) PDP-11 emulator by > John Wilson. Has this gone away? Jerome Fine replies: He's Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.dbit.com/ Just tried it and did reach the site this time. I will try and find out what happened. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Feb 23 14:46:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Godwin's Law (was Stupid war babble (was Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7710073444.20030223144305@subatomix.com> On Sunday, February 23, 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > But at some point ignoring a runaway thread becomes impossible. My options > are bloating my killfile (which won't work since they keep changing the > subject line), flaming people, or making fun of the whole damned thing. You could always subscribe to cctech. You don't get OT messages there. You also can't post them. You still get all the on-topic messages, even those from cctalk. -- Jeffrey Sharp From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Feb 23 14:58:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Godwin's Law (was Stupid war babble (was Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #473 - 49 msgs)) In-Reply-To: <7710073444.20030223144305@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Sunday, February 23, 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > > But at some point ignoring a runaway thread becomes impossible. My options > > are bloating my killfile (which won't work since they keep changing the > > subject line), flaming people, or making fun of the whole damned thing. > > You could always subscribe to cctech. You don't get OT messages there. You > also can't post them. You still get all the on-topic messages, even those > from cctalk. I know. I actually like most of the OT and marginal stuff on cctalk. I don't even particularly *mind* this one. I am just extremely bemused and amused at how badly it's degenerated. By the way, apologies to all for the duplicate posts and the munged From: fields. I'm migrating to Postfix here, and learning it as I go, and getting some whacked-out effects. Doc From anheier at owt.com Sun Feb 23 15:27:01 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive available In-Reply-To: <20030223144301.38447.71434.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: I have a Shurgart 8" floppy drive available. See at http://gallery.owt.com/users/a/anheier/61.jpg It needs to be thoroughly cleaned, but should be restorable. Best offer. Thanks Norm From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Feb 23 15:29:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Test message In-Reply-To: <200302222313340342.0A733443@192.168.42.130> Message-ID: > Please excuse the brief test. I'm trying to troubleshoot a replacement > mail server. This is possibly the most interesting message this list has had in days. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Sun Feb 23 15:46:01 2003 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP References: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <3E593FD8.2090207@pacbell.net> Jonathan Engdahl wrote: >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve >my method, let me know. > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header, and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0. While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program loader that understands a.out format, not just something that only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it) This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get you to the restart address. In your example you have: 000020/ 000167 000022/ 145702 If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702 (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first 2 words of the restart code). If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that it isn't) you would want either: 000137 145702 or: 000167 145676 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 23 15:48:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Feb 22, 3 04:25:02 pm Message-ID: > On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > > > 1) Yes. I built it; I can fix it. > > > > You have proper service data for all the parts in that PC? I am truely > > amazed (I thought I was about the only person to have that ;-)). Or does > > 'built' really mean 'assembled from cards'? > > OK, I have to take issue here. If I pop a piston on my lawn mower, > I'm not about to bust off a lathe and a mill and turn a new piston and > hand-fitted rod. I go buy one at Sears. This makes me really an Sure... But you don't replace the complete engine if all you need is a piston ring... Actually, I have made odd car parts and special tools on the lathe (nothing as critical as a piston though) when the originals were unobtainalble, or when you were expected to replace a complete assembly because one small part had failed... It's the same with computers. The last repair I did was to an HP9830. A 7402 NOR gate chip had failed, so the I/O operation flip-flop was never being set. Result : No I/O (not even to the display). I didn't set up a silicon foundary to make an 'indentical' chip. I just raided my junk box for a 74x02 and soldered it in. Worked fine. But equally I didn't replace the entire 09810-66512 CPU clock board (which also contains part of the i/O controller), or throw out the complete machine because I could no longer get the complete board. > The PC I use. A lot. But when it blows a board-level chip, it's I don't much love PCs either. I use one though... But there is something of 'me' in this PC -- the homebrew mods, the patch ROM for the hard disk table in the ROM bios, etc. Which means (alas) I do have somme affection for it... So I will keep it running... -tony From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Feb 23 16:04:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: References: <20030223163144.GJ12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20030223222800.GL12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Fred Cisin (XenoSoft), from writings of Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 11:13:26AM -0800: > But the Wintel adherent prob'ly thinks that his PC is more REAL than some > valve (tube) based mainframe. Which demonstrates the subjectivity of reality. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Feb 23 16:32:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: References: <3E585773.30825.3692D93@localhost> Message-ID: <20030223224847.GM12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 07:17:45PM +0000: > > A good part of my collection are boards, chips, drives, > > and other old equipment that is not easily available now. > > Sure... I've got _boxes_ of obscure spare parts (but I never seem to have > the one I really need...) Same here. > Actually, valves seem to be a lot easier to find that ASICs for > 5-year-old PCs... :-) Very true... planned obsolesence taken to extremes. > The claim was that parts for 'old' PCs were still easy to find new. Even > if you take 'parts' in the PC-goon sense to mean PCBs, drives, etc I > still find this hard to believe. There are many subassemblies once > commonly used in PCs that are no longer available new... As the electronics "recycling" programs become more active, we're going to see far fewer parts for many things... Next, we'll be seeing those "environmentally sensitive" people turning over unwanted inherited collections of tubes/valves and tube/valve equipment to the recyclers as well, not to mention computer collections. After all, some of those parts or systems could contain something toxic, or, something that could injure a child with a low IQ who might try to eat a miniature tube/valve containing mercury, and, worse yet, some of that equipment may have been stored in a room with... *horrors* lead paint on the walls! (sarcasm intended) In reality, all of this recycling has less to do with helping the environment than it does to help large corporations increase their volume of sales. Hence, destructive recycling, rather than re-use of complete computer systems, cars, assemblies and parts, etc. is creating much environmental damage for the sake of greed; it's mostly about political favors and corrupt government playing games with naive "environmentalists." > Actually, I can't remember the last time I saw an AT (as opposed to ATX) > PSU or case listed by the PC suppliers... Are not ATX power supplies a good example of, to a large extent, needless complexity? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 23 16:40:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Feb 23, 3 12:32:18 pm Message-ID: > On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > Yes... In fact I have a mini-purple-wall :-). The Techrefs for : > > > > PC > > If you have a choice, get the "version 2.02" (round white sticker on > spine). It has substantial updates and a few corrections from the > original, and contains some accessory boards that weren't around for the > first edition I think mine is an even later edition. It doesn't include expansion cards at all (they['re in the O&A TechRef). I think it does contain 2 versions of the RIOS (or maybe that's the XT manual -- the AT manual I have certainly includes 2 versions of the BIOS source) > > > PS/2 Hardware (this one contains no schematics, but it does have pinouts, > > > and it was given to me so I am not moaning). > > In addition to no longer having schematics, the PS/2 manuals also no > longer have source code for the BIOS! They do have fairly nice detail for Sure. Mind you I wouldn't expect a hardware manual to contain BIOS source, but the 'BIOS Interface Technical Reference' didn't either... > calling BIOS routines (contained in the opening comments for each section > in the source), but it's just not the same as having the full source. Agreed. The soruce code is the one thing to look at when you can't quite work out what the description is telling you. I am working wiht a product at the moment where I have 2 descriptions of how the handshake lines on the interfave behave, and a flowchart of the handshake sequence. All 3 are slightly different. How I wish I had the source code of the microcontroller program to sort it out for once and for all... -tony From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Feb 23 16:44:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Preserving exposed platters from corrosion and fingerprints Message-ID: <20030223224053.8754.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> > The platters are very sensitive to fingerprints and other environmental > contact. What is a good, quick, and cheap way to treat the platters > before completing the clock that will seal and protect the platters > without yellowing or cracking? have you tried using clear laquer on them? They used that on the alloy wheels on my car and it's only now starting to give up after 30 years - and that's with outdoor weathering. I suspect that sort of lifetime will outlast any clock mechanism based on plastic gearing anyway... cheers Jules Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From fernande at internet1.net Sun Feb 23 16:53:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:14 2005 Subject: Cuba In-Reply-To: <3E580197.23333.219BC76@localhost> References: <20030223025400.33630.19684.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <3E580197.23333.219BC76@localhost> Message-ID: <3E594E4D.4040103@internet1.net> Lawrence Walker wrote: > regime the US government wants. Hardship because of > US sanctions or not, the cuban people remember the > years of the Batista government and his Mafia cronies > supported by US monied interests, and don't want to give > up their hard won freedoms Hard won freedoms??? What freedoms to you think the Cubans have? It's a poor communist country! to allow the"Gusanos"(worms) > who fled to Florida with their money to be reinstalled in > power. Money? What money? My grandparents couldn't even bring there wedding rings with them when they came to the US!! They had a small suitcase with some clothes, thats it! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Feb 23 16:58:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #476 - 57 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030223223201.44198.11261.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030223225428.3996.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> > What he doesn't realize is he is now a permanent > resident of my ignore list. Cool!!! > He actually had the audacity to quote the ten > commandments to someone whose religious beliefs and > oaths contradict many of them, If your religious beliefs contradict: - Don't Steal - Don't Murder - Don't take your neighbors wife or property away - Honor your parents - Take a day off to rest Then, I'm glad I'm not a member of that religion... > and try to say that it should be the basis for > international law. He causes me much > nausea. I didn't say it SHOULD be. I said IT IS... Ask anyone who has studied law. Most of today's laws are based on the 10 Commandments, The Golden Rule and the Laws of Hammurabi. The basic concepts carry, even if the details are different. If you bothered to actually read my message, rather than be "offended" by it. You'd have understood that. I don't claim to be the creator of that concept. I read it somewhere, and found that I agreed with it. The 10 Commandments are acutally pretty religion neutral as most religions have similar "laws" and that particular set is share between Judaism, Christianity and several other derivative religious faiths. But, please be offended by the thought that good ideas are universal. Or that just because one faith brought up an idea that it belongs ONLY to that faith and not to other faiths, or even in the secular world. So silly. Good ideas, are good ideas. No matter who created them. > Peace... Sridhar Al From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Feb 23 17:11:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Floppy Drive In-Reply-To: <20030223223201.44198.11261.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030223230808.97323.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > I always preferred Tandon TM-100 drives. They > > needed a lot less service and maintenance than > > the SA400's did. > > And I always liked having the extra 5 tracks. > > I agree > I really like those drives. The pins that hinge the > doors don't hold up well to the abuse of a college > lab (unless you catch the culprits and break their > fingers), but without that abuse, they hold up very > well. Oh Man! I forgot ALL about that... I found it wasn't the pins themselves, it was the plastic hinges in the doors. A friend used to keep the broken ones after we'd replace them (I worked for a company that serviced these drives.. Cleaned, re-aligned, repaired. refurbished them...), and refurbish them for his personal drives with metal hinges. > > Boy, those were the days... > > They sure were. (except for some of the politics > :-) I must have somewhere all sorts of patched OS'es for my old Model I. DoubleDOS, TrsDOS, NewDOS 2.1, NewDOS/80, LDOS, VTOS, DosPLUS, the list goes on and on... I used NewDOS/80 for most things, followed by Multi-DOS. I have here a Percom flippy drive. It was a Wangtek mechanism (I think) that had write protect, and sector hole sensors on both sides of the drive, so you could write to both sides of a disk without punching holes. I got rather good at that, and used to sell home-made kits for people to punch their own disks. As well as installing Electric Pencil Lowercase Mods into Model I Keyboards. Micros back then were more like cars. You could customize them heavily. Only now with all these case-mods and cooling options are we getting back into what used to be fun about being a Computer Hobbyist. All things come around in a circle I guess... My Model I was stolen from my apt twice, and I recovered it twice because it was instantly recognizable as mine. A local Model I guru knew my machine and when it came in to him for service by the kid who bought it out of the trunk of a car, he called me and the police. The kid complained he was out his $100.00 and wanted it back from me. But, I felt... You buy stolen equipment, you take your chances... I didn't press charges when I got the machine back though. The first time it was stolen, the guy realized that nobody would buy it from him, it was so custom.. So he tried to ransom it back to me. I said sure... His ransom payment was me, and 5 friends with baseball bats. The police were stunned that I recovered the system twice. Those REALLY were the days... *sigh!* Regards, Al P.S.: though not booted in several years, my Model I (which just turned 24 yo) is sitting a foot away from me on a desk. I should hook it all up and give it a boot for old times sake. From fm.arnold at gmx.net Sun Feb 23 18:24:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: M9312 Bootstrap Questions In-Reply-To: <20030223203328.43062.85752.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030223203328.43062.85752.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 23.02.2003: --------------------- From: Jeffrey Sharp Subject: M9312 Bootstrap Questions > >First, I'm confused about what version of the module I have. My 11/34 user's >manual (EK-11034-UG-001 '77) talks about a -YA, -YB, and -YF version of the >board. > I also always wondered about this, and never found any clues. But don't bother, its not very important. Those variation-codes just describe the situation of the module at the time the first customer took them from the box, soon as you change a prom or switch, its something else... So just run the 9312 diagnostic from XXDP, it will print a nice summary for you how the unit is momentarely configured and what its capabilities are. It will also certify correct operation of your M9312 on top of that. I hope you can boot anything else, do you have a DL11-W? You could use this with a PeeCee emulated TU58 for diagnostics ect. If you need the Boot-prom for TU58 write me off-list. >My M9312 has no -Yx designator and has only one bootstrap ROM installed >(756A9 for RK03/05/05J or TU55/56). The M9312 manual seems to make the most >sense in this case, so I've been believing its side of the story. However, >the DIP switch settings on my M9312 have me puzzled. Here they are: > > 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 > ON ON ON OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF ON ON > >This doesn't correspond to anything in either manual! According to the >manual I'm trusting, this says to start executing at 765406 (in the console >emulator ROM). It needs to be 765020 (with diags) or 765144 (without diags). > >Supposedly, the machine was functional when it was decommed, so my first >instinct is to assume I am (or the docs are) wrong somewhere. However, its >previous owner (another collector) was not able **IIRC** to get a register >printout at power-up. So maybe the DIP switch is pointing to someplace that >isn't a valid entry point. I don't have access to the complete M9312 print >set, which would list the ROM contents. > >Should I reset the DIP switch to say 765020? > That depends on the physical socket-location where the 756A9 is plugged into. Alternatively, you could use 773000 that will give you console-odt from where you can interactively select the boot you desire. Hope you get it to work, Frank Arnold From allain at panix.com Sun Feb 23 18:47:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Off-topic (John Allain: do not read) Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #472 - 25 msgs References: Message-ID: <014001c2db9d$ae2369a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > What he doesn't realize is he is now a permanent > resident of my ignore list. He actually had the audacity > to quote the ten commandments... Careful with the mention of "He" here. My name is the only one present, out of an external context, in the subject line of this message. jea From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Feb 23 19:13:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Cuba In-Reply-To: <3E594E4D.4040103@internet1.net> References: <3E580197.23333.219BC76@localhost> <20030223025400.33630.19684.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <3E580197.23333.219BC76@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030223201412.59b7df4a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've kept quite through this entire discussion but now I have to speak up. I have to agree with Chad on this one. I live in Florida and I personally know dozens if not hundreds of people who fled Cuba including two of my door neighbors. Most of them didn't even have a suitcase of clothes much less ANY money. I don't know who's been telling you otherwise but they're lying through their teeth! Where the hell do you get your news from? Havana? You should come to Florida and talk to some of these people. They don't risk their very lives crossing 100+ miles of shark infested ocean hauling money out of Cuba. Not a single one of the Cubans that I know are rich. Most of them would be probably be considered poor by our standards. They're just happy to be out of Cuba and in a (relatively) free country. Joe At 05:42 PM 2/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >Lawrence Walker wrote: >> regime the US government wants. Hardship because of >> US sanctions or not, the cuban people remember the >> years of the Batista government and his Mafia cronies >> supported by US monied interests, and don't want to give >> up their hard won freedoms > >Hard won freedoms??? What freedoms to you think the Cubans have? It's >a poor communist country! > > to allow the"Gusanos"(worms) >> who fled to Florida with their money to be reinstalled in >> power. > >Money? What money? My grandparents couldn't even bring there wedding >rings with them when they came to the US!! They had a small suitcase >with some clothes, thats it! > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA From jss at subatomix.com Sun Feb 23 19:38:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: M9312 Bootstrap Questions In-Reply-To: References: <20030223203328.43062.85752.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <18127595730.20030223193508@subatomix.com> On Sunday, February 23, 2003, Frank Arnold wrote: > Those variation-codes just describe the situation of the module at the > time the first customer took them from the box, soon as you change a prom > or switch, its something else... Ah. I checked the console emulator ROM chip, and it doesn't appear to have an ID code on it. Page E-1 of the M9312 manual says it should have the ID code 248F1. Maybe a previous owner changed out the ROM out and the current DIP switch settings are OK for whatever he put in. Having the previous owner's handwritten notes mignt indeed provide some insights here. I'll have to go down to Owen's and get them soon. > So just run the 9312 diagnostic from XXDP, it will print a nice summary > for you how the unit is momentarely configured and what its capabilities > are. It will also certify correct operation of your M9312 on top of that. Good idea. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sun Feb 23 20:00:01 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Identifying a Motolora chip - MC14544? Message-ID: Howdy folks; I'm trying to identify a Motorola chip for my father - his guess is a 300 baud modem... The chip comes from circuitry which allows folks to remotely control the lights on a runway. All of the breakers/generators are in a little shed at the end of the runway, but there is a controller board in the tower to allow you to turn on lights without having to trek down to the shed... Unfortunately said controller is broken, and my old man has tracked it down to this chip. Any help would be greatly appreciated; Particularly since the people that own the property have sold off the end of the strip to a local farmer who keeps cows there... And the other pilots are a bit too soft to leap the fence and wander through a herd of cattle in the middle of the night just to turn on the lamps... Thanks! JP From jss at subatomix.com Sun Feb 23 20:08:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: TU58 Emulation (was: M9312 Bootstrap Questions) Message-ID: <5429364744.20030223200437@subatomix.com> Frank Arnold wrote: > I hope you can boot anything else, do you have a DL11-W? You could use > this with a PeeCee emulated TU58 for diagnostics ect. Two questions. First, has anyone here emulated a TU58 successfully in software? I searched through the archives and found lots of posts that say "you could" and none that say "I did". If it's doable, what software should I use? I found this: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/utils/tu58/ Second, where do I get the diagnostics to load over the emulated TU58? -- Jeffrey Sharp From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Feb 23 20:21:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: TU58 Emulation (was: M9312 Bootstrap Questions) In-Reply-To: <5429364744.20030223200437@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Frank Arnold wrote: > > I hope you can boot anything else, do you have a DL11-W? You could use > > this with a PeeCee emulated TU58 for diagnostics ect. > > Two questions. > > First, has anyone here emulated a TU58 successfully in software? I searched Yes, I have to run xxdp things. > through the archives and found lots of posts that say "you could" and none > that say "I did". If it's doable, what software should I use? I found this: Try vtserver: http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/vtserver.htm All you really need is the part in the 'vtserver' part of the tarball, not the 'pdpvtstand' part. > > Second, where do I get the diagnostics to load over the emulated TU58? http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm from the same web site as vtserver. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Sun Feb 23 20:45:00 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP References: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura> <3E593FD8.2090207@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <008501c2dbae$42286050$8a00a8c0@arctura> You are right: 000137. The funny thing is, I had it right the first time. I'll go update the web page. On the other header fields, I agree with your idea, but for some reason, I have this vague recollection that there was a reason for what I did with them. It's always a bad idea to second guess something you did a year ago and "fix" it (see the 000137 thing). It's working, so I'd best leave it alone until it's proven to be broken. I think I remember setting it up that way after reading through the source for some boot loader. Hmm, yes, it was the "boot" program. VTserver squirts down a small loader via ODT, which then loads boot.dd. Same as the boot program that the 512 byte rauboot program loads. This one: 73Boot from ra(0,0,0) at 0172150 : ra(0,0,0)unix Boot.dd knows enough to chat with the console so you can tell it what file you want off the virtual tape or hard drive, and it does some decoding of the header, but it's limited. Maybe I should go read that code again. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Davidson" To: "Jonathan Engdahl" Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > > > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve > >my method, let me know. > > > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > > > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header, > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0. > > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it) > > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get > you to the restart address. > > In your example you have: > > 000020/ 000167 > 000022/ 145702 > > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702 > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first > 2 words of the restart code). > > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that > it isn't) you would want either: > > 000137 > 145702 > > or: > > 000167 > 145676 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS@minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 23 21:01:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Floppy Drive In-Reply-To: <20030223230808.97323.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > > I always preferred Tandon TM-100 drives. . . . > I found it wasn't the pins themselves, it was the > plastic hinges in the doors. Absolutely right. Not the pins, but the pin holders of the doors. Glueing didn't work well. But with so many companies using those drives, it wasn't hard to get parts. > I must have somewhere all sorts of patched OS'es for > my old Model I. DoubleDOS, TrsDOS, NewDOS 2.1, > NewDOS/80, LDOS, VTOS, DosPLUS, the list goes on and > on... One fellow around here used the wangtek 150RPM drive and patched the OS (probably LDOS) for 8" DSDD to get a 5.25" with 1.2M. > I got rather good at that, and used to sell home-made > kits for people to punch their own disks. As well as I sold a lot of my "Flip-Jig"s. Even sold a few more at VCF last year. > installing Electric Pencil Lowercase Mods into Model I > Keyboards. We did a kit for lower case, software controlled reverse video, and a little noise. > Those REALLY were the days... -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 23 21:06:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Identifying a Motolora chip - MC14544? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030224030301.86414.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- JP Hindin wrote: > Howdy folks; > > I'm trying to identify a Motorola chip for my father - his guess is a 300 > baud modem... Give that man a prize! I found some PDF files in the Motorola Historical Archives... http://merchant.hibbertco.com/fs22/deact/fs11/motorola/MC145442_REV0.PDF http://merchant.hibbertco.com/fs22/deact/fs22/pdf-docs/motorola/mc145442b.rev0.pdf http://merchant.hibbertco.com/fs22/deact/fs11/motorola/MC145444_REV1.PDF I think there's some more digits that he didn't give you that nail down exactly _which_ rev. I have *no* idea where you are going to find a replacement. > Any help would be greatly appreciated; Particularly since the people that > own the property have sold off the end of the strip to a local farmer who > keeps cows there... And the other pilots are a bit too soft to leap the > fence and wander through a herd of cattle in the middle of the night just > to turn on the lamps... I've been to a strip in NW Ohio, Fremont, that has a grass strip butting into a narrow asphalt strip in a Tee shape... the State airport guide warns that cows may be present on the grass runway and to perform a flyover before attempting a landing there. -ethan From allain at panix.com Sun Feb 23 21:49:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Off-topic (John Allain: do not read) Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #472 - 25 msgs References: Message-ID: <011401c2dbb7$28c20fe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > But that comment was directed at you, so referring > to you as "he" wouldn't work. That comment was: > He actually had the audacity to quote the ten > commandments to someone whose religious > beliefs and oaths contradict many of them, and > try to say that it should be the basis for international > law. He causes me much nausea. I never sent you this. Don't lie about me on the list. Actually, the topmost statement here doesn't even make grammatical sense to me. Is everyone here just sick or something? John A. From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Sun Feb 23 22:36:00 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP References: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura> <3E593FD8.2090207@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <00cb01c2dbbd$ce8d64f0$8a00a8c0@arctura> Now that I think of it, > 000137 > 145702 is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in this case it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into memory, it would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump to 145722. I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether. Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops for an RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Davidson" To: "Jonathan Engdahl" Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > > > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve > >my method, let me know. > > > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > > > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header, > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0. > > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it) > > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get > you to the restart address. > > In your example you have: > > 000020/ 000167 > 000022/ 145702 > > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702 > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first > 2 words of the restart code). > > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that > it isn't) you would want either: > > 000137 > 145702 > > or: > > 000167 > 145676 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS@minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Sun Feb 23 22:45:00 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Identifying a Motolora chip - MC14544? Message-ID: Wasn't that chip used in the Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 machines. I remember playing with the Band Pass filters to convince the TRS-80 to work with CCITT tones, instaed of the Bell tones that were used in USA. That was a while ago Boy, did I get myself into strife with the campus computer manager with that little 300 baud modem. Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Feb 23 23:30:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Not at all Re: TRS-80 Floppy Drive In-Reply-To: Al Hartman's message of "Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:08:08 -0800 (PST)" References: <20030223230808.97323.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200302240502.h1O52pum007206@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Al Hartman wrote: > Micros back then were more like cars. You could > customize them heavily. Only now with all these > case-mods and cooling options are we getting back into > what used to be fun about being a Computer Hobbyist. When next I find myself looking at the bizarre heat sink and fan contraptions in modern desktop PCs, I think I will try to think about fenders with fins. The alternative is to think about the J. C. Whitney catalog, and I don't think that's quite appropriate. -Frank McConnell From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Feb 23 23:45:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: <00cb01c2dbbd$ce8d64f0$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: Why is it that the UC08 SCSI controller on ePay right now is going for a buy-it of$799? Are QBUS SCSI controllers THAT rare? I was going to try to find one for my MicroVAX II, but not for that kind of dosh.... tnx. g. From chriss at kingston.net Mon Feb 24 00:03:01 2003 From: chriss at kingston.net (Chris Saunders) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 Question Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030223194404.022fd300@localhost> Hi Tony, Saw your posts on the net regarding HX-20's. I was wondering if you would be able to give me a couple pointers. I picked a hx-20 up a few years ago, and am now getting a chance to play with it. I have downloaded and read the 3 PDF's on Epson's site. I have not been able to find a copy of the BASIC Tutorial. I have a ROM installed in the _bottom_ of the unit. Not in the expansion slot, which is filled with the Cassette Unit. Should the ROM be autodetected, or does it have to be loaded? If loaded, how to I load it? I have not been able to get things working experimenting with LOAD "PAC0" and "LOAD PAC1". When I first powered the HX-20 up years ago, it had a 3rd option, but then I initialized it and of course, it is now gone. Thanks in advance. ChriS From ekklein at pacbell.net Mon Feb 24 00:03:57 2003 From: ekklein at pacbell.net (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay Message-ID: <00fc01c2dbb3$7dfd81f0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> This is truly amazing. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403344993 I have no affiliation with this auction whatsoever. I do wonder what my wife would say if I bought this, though. "Honey, clear out the guest room, I have a mainframe coming!" Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From homeranonymous at netscape.net Mon Feb 24 00:04:43 2003 From: homeranonymous at netscape.net (homer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: G.W.Bush a liar? Message-ID: <3E599290.9060001@netscape.net> Well said. Ditto all the following: > I'm not aware of ANY lies by the current > administration, no less "lies and more damnedable > lies" > > Also, you can't hold this administration responsible > for the misdeeds of past administrations. > > In fact, I'd call the previous administration one of > the most dishonest and criminal administrations this > country has ever had. > > Luckily our system of government is such that people > like this cannot remain in power for too long. > > As for the rest of what you say, I don't have any data > for or against it. > > America is a representative republic. Not quite a > democracy. And yes, the government does things that > the people don't necessarily like or agree to. > > Given that, I still believe we have the free-est and > best form of government on the planet. > > It is not corruption or mistake free. Nor is it free > of the normal human expressions of greed, ego, hatred, > and agression. > > It's still head and shoulders above all other > government systems on the planet. > > Considering the broad areas in which the U.S. is > invlolved in, the huge amount of AID it gives to the > rest of the world, you have to see that basically we > are a good country. > > I would like it to be perfect, but that's not possible > in human affairs. It could certainly be better. And > what I like about Bush and his administration is that > he got right to the task of setting right all the > wrongs of previous administrations he could find and > fix. > > I know he will be relected in 2004 with a landslide. > It's a shame he can't run for a third term. Cheney > will probably not be able (or willing) to run for > President in 2008. > > Before the election, and before I saw Bush in action. > I was sure he'd be a one term President and that > Hillary Clinton or maybe Al Gore would run in 2004 and > take back the Presidency for the Democrats. > > Now, I'm sure that won't happen. > > It's amazing that you can call a liar, a man whose > reputation is largely made by his truthfulness and > trustworthyness. As Governor of Texas he kept most all > of his promises. And left the state in a much better > condition than it was when he took office. > > You may not like his policies, or his decisions. But, > that doesn't make him a liar. > > Regards, > Al From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org Mon Feb 24 00:05:31 2003 From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP In-Reply-To: <00cb01c2dbbd$ce8d64f0$8a00a8c0@arctura> from Jonathan Engdahl at "Feb 23, 2003 11:32:57 pm" Message-ID: <200302240510.h1O5AQP56370@minnie.tuhs.org> In article by Jonathan Engdahl: > Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely > twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops for an > RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected. I'm glad I wrote VTserver, it seems it has more uses than I thought of. I'm out of the development loop for the new VTserver, but hopefully it's progressing along. Warren From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Feb 24 00:07:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Identifying a Fujitsu chip - MB15140? Message-ID: <3e.2c633801.2b8b0ef9@aol.com> Wow! You guys are good. Maybe you can help me. I need some Fujitsu chip information. I have a bunch of Fujitsu MB15140 CR-G with a date code of 8809 I would like to know what they are. Picture at http://members.aol.com/innfosale/MB15140A.JPG I got them from Fujitsu, Hillsboro, OR, when they were discontinuing the 14" & 8" drive lines there. I suspect they are related to the 23XX 8" hard drives but am not sure. Fujitsu made quite a few products there, POS stuff too. Thanks for the help. Paxton Astoria, OR From fernande at internet1.net Mon Feb 24 00:07:48 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E59B3B6.5090608@internet1.net> Gene Buckle wrote: > Why is it that the UC08 SCSI controller on ePay right now is going for a > buy-it of$799? Are QBUS SCSI controllers THAT rare? I was going to try > to find one for my MicroVAX II, but not for that kind of dosh.... I've seen those too. I think the seller is a little over confident. A UC07 went for $250 just a few days ago. Qbus SCSI cards seem to top out at about $300 to $350 from what I've seen. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mranalog at attbi.com Mon Feb 24 00:09:00 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Info wanted: IBM vacuum tube digital computer demonstrator References: <3.0.6.16.20030223191748.59b71ffe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E59B60F.25B8AC4B@attbi.com> Joe wrote: > > Can anyone tell me more about this thing or even (HOPEFULLY) have a > > manual for it? Joe, 1948 IBM 604 Computer Engineers Field Unit Price $6000 http://www.newbegin.com/itemmis_28.html --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From fernande at internet1.net Mon Feb 24 00:18:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay In-Reply-To: <00fc01c2dbb3$7dfd81f0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> References: <00fc01c2dbb3$7dfd81f0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <3E59B60B.9010604@internet1.net> Wow, that's incredible!! I wish I had the space, needed knowledge, etc. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Erik S. Klein wrote: > This is truly amazing. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403344993 > > I have no affiliation with this auction whatsoever. I do wonder what my > wife would say if I bought this, though. "Honey, clear out the guest > room, I have a mainframe coming!" > > Erik S. Klein > www.vintage-computer.com From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Feb 24 00:19:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: <3E59B3B6.5090608@internet1.net> Message-ID: > Gene Buckle wrote: > > Why is it that the UC08 SCSI controller on ePay right now is going for a > > buy-it of$799? Are QBUS SCSI controllers THAT rare? I was going to try > > to find one for my MicroVAX II, but not for that kind of dosh.... > > I've seen those too. I think the seller is a little over confident. A > UC07 went for $250 just a few days ago. Qbus SCSI cards seem to top out > at about $300 to $350 from what I've seen. > Holy cow. Never mind then. :) I'll save my money for a new radio after my upgrade to General. :) g. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 24 00:34:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: References: <00cb01c2dbbd$ce8d64f0$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224010819.025beec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Gene, I took a look at the CTP dealer listing index, and the current listed prices for UC08's run from a low of $300 to a high of $750 Out of the 12 listed that have prices showing, the average is $511.25 There was a UC07 recently on eBay in the UK that sold for GBP 252.00 (currently approx. US $397.91 ) EMULEX UCO7 Q-BUS SCSI CONTROLLER FOR DEC http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2307510324 With variations in exchange rate, that US equivalent was about $420 on the day it closed. Best Regards At 09:49 PM 2/23/03 -0800, Gene Buckle wrote: >Why is it that the UC08 SCSI controller on ePay right now is going for a >buy-it of$799? Are QBUS SCSI controllers THAT rare? I was going to try >to find one for my MicroVAX II, but not for that kind of dosh.... > >tnx. > >g. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Feb 24 00:55:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224010819.025beec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > Gene, > > I took a look at the CTP dealer listing index, and the current listed prices > for UC08's run from a low of $300 to a high of $750 Out of the 12 listed > that have prices showing, the average is $511.25 Yebbut, nobody on this list pays dealer list. To me, the above means I'm looking at maybe $250-$275 if I really want one and will wait for it. Doc From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Feb 24 00:57:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224010819.025beec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: > I took a look at the CTP dealer listing index, and the current listed prices > for UC08's run from a low of $300 to a high of $750 Out of the 12 listed > that have prices showing, the average is $511.25 > > There was a UC07 recently on eBay in the UK that sold for GBP 252.00 > (currently approx. US $397.91 ) > > EMULEX UCO7 Q-BUS SCSI CONTROLLER FOR DEC > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2307510324 > That's just amazing. I never knew the demand for those things was that high. I wish the guy that was doing the IDE controllers had entered production. :) g. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 24 01:00:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Transitional Technology Qbus SCSI controller Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224014733.025cfec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello, I just received this inquiry from a "personal use" user about a card that I am not familiar with. If any of you want to help him out, his address is included. Wasn't someone asking about a differential scsi controller lately? If he'd have better use for a single-ended, and someone else needed a differential, perhaps you'd have a trade. Best Regards From: Robertdkeys@aol.com Message-ID: <54.b0c1e41.2b8b0e5b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:57:47 EST Subject: QTD-1 qbus diff scsi board - you folks know anything about??? Since you folks deal in legacy qbus things, I was wondering if you might know anything about a Transitional Technology, Inc., model QTD-1 differential mscp/tmscp scsi controller? I have one that a friend sent me, to use in an MVII machine, but I can't seem to find out any information anywhere about the board. It is dated 1989, but must have been made by one of the lesser qbus card manufacturers. If you know anything about this particular board, I would be most interested in finding out the particulars, so I can get this thing running. Thanks R.D. Keys robertdkeys@aol.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 24 01:20:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224010819.025beec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224021457.025c9960@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Gene, > That's just amazing. I never knew the demand for those things was that > high. I wish the guy that was doing the IDE controllers had entered > production. :) I think a lot of people, "personal users" too, are getting tired of struggling with RD-5x drive unreliability, and/or want the larger storage capacities they could obtain with SCSI Best Regards At 11:00 PM 2/23/03 -0800, you wrote: > > I took a look at the CTP dealer listing index, and the current listed > prices > > for UC08's run from a low of $300 to a high of $750 Out of the 12 listed > > that have prices showing, the average is $511.25 > > > > There was a UC07 recently on eBay in the UK that sold for GBP 252.00 > > (currently approx. US $397.91 ) > > > > EMULEX UCO7 Q-BUS SCSI CONTROLLER FOR DEC > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2307510324 > > > >That's just amazing. I never knew the demand for those things was that >high. I wish the guy that was doing the IDE controllers had entered >production. :) > >g. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 24 01:25:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224010819.025beec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224015930.025d4ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Doc, > Yebbut, nobody on this list pays dealer list. Those were actually dealer to dealer wholesale prices, but with as slow as the DEC market has gotten, many of those would probably sell to the end user at the same price. > To me, the above means I'm looking at maybe $250-$275 if I really want > one and will wait for it. The business users primarily want CMD SCSI controllers, so with any other brand it would usually go for much, much less, especially on eBay. The truth is, if you are willing to wait, I've even seen some go as low as the $40+ to $60+ range? With some, condition might be poor, or they may not be operational and be being sold as is, but they might also be just fine. That's the eBay gamble. I do remember the MTI QTS-25 I had sold on eBay a couple of years ago to Zane went for only $50 Best Regards At 12:51 AM 2/24/03 -0600, you wrote: >On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > > > Gene, > > > > I took a look at the CTP dealer listing index, and the current listed > prices > > for UC08's run from a low of $300 to a high of $750 Out of the 12 listed > > that have prices showing, the average is $511.25 > > Yebbut, nobody on this list pays dealer list. To me, the above means >I'm looking at maybe $250-$275 if I really want one and will wait for >it. > > Doc From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Feb 24 02:00:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) References: Message-ID: <003901c2dbda$7c62d300$0100000a@milkyway> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > But the Wintel adherent prob'ly thinks that his PC is more REAL than > some valve (tube) based mainframe. And most Linux users think Linux is better that Windoze - and with good reason. Is it any wonder most servers on the internet run the Apache HTTP Server under Linux (or other UNIX derivatives)? Linux is remarkably stable. Windows is the exact opposite. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 24 06:16:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay In-Reply-To: <00fc01c2dbb3$7dfd81f0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> References: <00fc01c2dbb3$7dfd81f0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <262066922.20030224061233@subatomix.com> On Sunday, February 23, 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403344993 Uh, I live in Norman, where this thing is! I'm seriously thinking about what I would need to rescue this beast. I probably have room for it in my garage (tight fit though), where it would sit for several years until I could afford my own place (which very well may be a warehouse with a bed in one corner :-) ). I see two problems with this monster: 0. Some of those cabinets are *wide*. It seems like it may be too big to be handled with a lift-gate-enabled Ryder rental truck. 1. I think he's looking for lots of money here. I'm not a poor college student any more, but I'm not rolling in dough, either. The reward-expense ratio for this may just be too low for me to act. There are other (almost equally) cool machines that are smaller and could be obtained for less money, if my suspicions are right about this seller's reserve price. However, this is in my own town, and I'd hate to see it go to the scrapper. Argh. Does anyone have any comments, especially WRT the transportability of this machine? -- Jeffrey Sharp From cbajpai at attbi.com Mon Feb 24 06:23:00 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay In-Reply-To: <00fc01c2dbb3$7dfd81f0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <000b01c2dbfe$eaa73d00$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Very, very cool. I wonder if the computer is water damaged. Any idea year was this system manufactured? Any specs? I'd don't think my wife would appreciate having this around the house, no matter the coolness factor. Thanks, Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Erik S. Klein Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 10:19 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Univac III on eBay This is truly amazing. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403344993 I have no affiliation with this auction whatsoever. I do wonder what my wife would say if I bought this, though. "Honey, clear out the guest room, I have a mainframe coming!" Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 24 06:43:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay In-Reply-To: <262066922.20030224061233@subatomix.com> References: <00fc01c2dbb3$7dfd81f0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> <262066922.20030224061233@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <1503687572.20030224063933@subatomix.com> Replying to myself: > On Sunday, February 23, 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403344993 > > Uh, I live in Norman, where this thing is! ... I'm seriously thinking > about what I would need to rescue this beast. ... The reward-expense ratio > for this may just be too low Other issues: 2. Power. I doubt I'd ever be able to plug it in. I used to have a VAX 8600 but gave it away because it would be too troublesome for me to provide power. This Univac would be even worse than that. 3. Little or no spare parts. I like spare parts. As saddening as it may be, it looks like I should just stick to minis and shut my mouth. :-( Oh well, if anyone comes to get this thing, I would like to be invited to at least see it. I'd be glad to help with loading, etc. -- Jeffrey Sharp From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Feb 24 06:52:01 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: M9312 Bootstrap Questions References: <8317262572.20030223023615@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E5A14A4.8080507@Vishay.com> Jeffrey, are you sure the 11/34 manual is talking about the M9312? - I seem to remember that my copy describes the M9301, of which, IIRC, there are -YA, -YB, and -YF versions. Since all M9301s are completely different from the M9312, it would be no surprise if you cannot match the switches between docs and hardware... Andreas Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Ok, I got my PDP-11/34 mounted in its rack and have started to audit > jumpers, switches, etc. I am being cornfused by the M9312 bootstrap > terminator module. > > First, I'm confused about what version of the module I have. My 11/34 user's > manual (EK-11034-UG-001 '77) talks about a -YA, -YB, and -YF version of the > board. My M9312 manual (EK-M9312-TM-003 '81) talks only in terms of > bootstrap ROM part numbers. The DIP switch references in the two documents > conflict, even differing on the switch settings necessary just to boot into > the console emulator. ... -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Feb 24 07:01:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay In-Reply-To: <262066922.20030224061233@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Sunday, February 23, 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403344993 > [...] > > Does anyone have any comments, especially WRT the transportability of > this machine? This one is definitely a museum piece. My hope would be that the Computer History Museum ends up with this (assuming they don't already have one). Given its age, an extensive restoration effort would be in order if it any attempt were made to run it. I don't think any mere mortal with a rental truck would be able to move something like this. It'd take a large truck and the help of quite a few friends. -brian. From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Feb 24 08:53:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224021457.025c9960@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: > > That's just amazing. I never knew the demand for those things was that > > high. I wish the guy that was doing the IDE controllers had entered > > production. :) > > I think a lot of people, "personal users" too, are getting tired of struggling > with RD-5x drive unreliability, and/or want the larger storage capacities > they could obtain with SCSI Well I've got a KDA-50 board set so I'm not _totally_ out in the cold, but it sure would be nice to use a drive that a) wasn't 150lbs (RA81) and b) wasn't 3 feet long (RA92). Neither of which fit in the BA123(? nice roll-around chassis, card cage is on the right side) enclosures that my 2 MicroVAXen use. g. From GOOI at oce.nl Mon Feb 24 09:29:00 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: M9312 Bootstrap Questions Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBB1A@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Well, my 11/34C has the M9312 in it. See www.pdp-11.nl and click on the folder PDP-11/34A. Inside that folder is a folder called CPU information, in there is the folder options, and the last item is the document "bootstrap" (M9312). Maybe that's a little help. I have a scan of the M9312 manual and also of the M9301 manual wich will be at Jay's in a few weeks ... - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Andreas Freiherr [mailto:Andreas.Freiherr@Vishay.com] > Sent: maandag 24 februari 2003 13:49 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: M9312 Bootstrap Questions > > > Jeffrey, > > are you sure the 11/34 manual is talking about the M9312? - I seem to > remember that my copy describes the M9301, of which, IIRC, there are > -YA, -YB, and -YF versions. > > Since all M9301s are completely different from the M9312, it > would be no > surprise if you cannot match the switches between docs and hardware... > > Andreas > > Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > Ok, I got my PDP-11/34 mounted in its rack and have started to audit > > jumpers, switches, etc. I am being cornfused by the M9312 bootstrap > > terminator module. > > > > First, I'm confused about what version of the module I > have. My 11/34 user's > > manual (EK-11034-UG-001 '77) talks about a -YA, -YB, and > -YF version of the > > board. My M9312 manual (EK-M9312-TM-003 '81) talks only in terms of > > bootstrap ROM part numbers. The DIP switch references in > the two documents > > conflict, even differing on the switch settings necessary > just to boot into > > the console emulator. > ... > > -- > Andreas Freiherr > Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany > http://www.vishay.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 24 09:41:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224021457.025c9960@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224102200.00a23380@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Gene, Even though RD-5x fit in there fine, what is probably an inexpensive but more reliable solution than the RD-5x is to go with 5.25" FH ESDI drives as some other "personal users" have done. They come in larger storage capacities than the RD-5x drives too. Pick up a Sigma SCD-RQD11/EC when it shows up on eBay for around $35 to $50 ( or even less these days? ), and ask Mark Green about an ESDI drive. He got all four ( some of them around 600 Mb ) that I had a couple of years ago for what would have averaged out to $10 each ( plus shipping ). Best Regards At 06:57 AM 2/24/03 -0800, you wrote: > > > That's just amazing. I never knew the demand for those things was that > > > high. I wish the guy that was doing the IDE controllers had entered > > > production. :) > > > > I think a lot of people, "personal users" too, are getting tired of > struggling > > with RD-5x drive unreliability, and/or want the larger storage capacities > > they could obtain with SCSI > >Well I've got a KDA-50 board set so I'm not _totally_ out in the cold, but >it sure would be nice to use a drive that a) wasn't 150lbs (RA81) and b) >wasn't 3 feet long (RA92). Neither of which fit in the BA123(? nice >roll-around chassis, card cage is on the right side) enclosures that my 2 >MicroVAXen use. > >g. From massimo.vettore at zf.com Mon Feb 24 09:45:01 2003 From: massimo.vettore at zf.com (Vettore Massimo MARPD EDP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Info wanted: IBM vacuum tube digital computer demonstrator Message-ID: <35F5E396DA78D4118C2D00508BEED22E017A1ED0@pd1016.zfm.zf-group.de> On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > Can anyone tell me more about this thing or even (HOPEFULLY) have a > manual for it? Hi Joe Could be this one: http://www.newbegin.com/itemmis_28.html Max From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 24 09:58:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Info wanted: IBM vacuum tube digital computer demonstrator In-Reply-To: <35F5E396DA78D4118C2D00508BEED22E017A1ED0@pd1016.zfm.zf-gro up.de> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030224110117.47c7735a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Yes, that's the item but I'm pretty certain that he's wrong about it being a field engineer's test set. A couple of list members have tracked down several of these but no docs yet. Joe At 04:42 PM 2/24/03 +0100, you wrote: >On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > >> Can anyone tell me more about this thing or even (HOPEFULLY) have a >> manual for it? > >Hi Joe > >Could be this one: >http://www.newbegin.com/itemmis_28.html > >Max From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Mon Feb 24 10:55:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: BA123 and disks (RE: QBUS SCSI card...) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE20@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> True, the various ESDI disks are proving to be a fine and reliable replacement for the RD drives, using the same form factor. My MV4 (in a BA123) has three Hitachi drives, 680MB each, and are emulated as RA82's. Nice, reliable and _fast_ ! These drives, and the controllers (Sigma, ADC, Emulex, Dilog) are real cheap now. --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Mail List [mailto:mail.list@analog-and-digital-solutions.com] > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:38 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: QBUS SCSI card... > > > Hello Gene, > > Even though RD-5x fit in there fine, what is probably an inexpensive > but more reliable solution than the RD-5x is to go with 5.25" FH > ESDI drives as some other "personal users" have done. They > come in larger storage capacities than the RD-5x drives too. > Pick up a Sigma SCD-RQD11/EC when it shows up on eBay > for around $35 to $50 ( or even less these days? ), and ask > Mark Green about an ESDI drive. He got all four ( some of them > around 600 Mb ) that I had a couple of years ago for what would > have averaged out to $10 each ( plus shipping ). > > > Best Regards > > > > > At 06:57 AM 2/24/03 -0800, you wrote: > > > > That's just amazing. I never knew the demand for > those things was that > > > > high. I wish the guy that was doing the IDE > controllers had entered > > > > production. :) > > > > > > I think a lot of people, "personal users" too, are > getting tired of > > struggling > > > with RD-5x drive unreliability, and/or want the larger > storage capacities > > > they could obtain with SCSI > > > >Well I've got a KDA-50 board set so I'm not _totally_ out in > the cold, but > >it sure would be nice to use a drive that a) wasn't 150lbs > (RA81) and b) > >wasn't 3 feet long (RA92). Neither of which fit in the BA123(? nice > >roll-around chassis, card cage is on the right side) > enclosures that my 2 > >MicroVAXen use. > > > >g. From allain at panix.com Mon Feb 24 11:35:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:15 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay References: Message-ID: <02fa01c2dc2a$7be2e640$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> Does anyone have any comments, especially WRT the >> transportability of this machine? > This one is definitely a museum piece. Some random thoughts. Someone closeby to the computer should get some good detailed pictures together for others who are really interested. I checked my files and here's some dates: Univac I: 1948, Univac II: actiovely sold in 1961. Somebody should contact the History Center... http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/donateArtifact/ "What the Museum does not look for in a donation... ...IBM PC. IBM PC Jr..., ..." (hilarious) so I just did by email. I'd be willing to chip in on shipping if the museum is interested. It would take more than just my contributions to move it. John A. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Feb 24 11:49:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Gene Buckle wrote: > Well I've got a KDA-50 board set so I'm not _totally_ out in the cold, but > it sure would be nice to use a drive that a) wasn't 150lbs (RA81) and b) > wasn't 3 feet long (RA92). Neither of which fit in the BA123(? nice > roll-around chassis, card cage is on the right side) enclosures that my 2 > MicroVAXen use. If your OS supports it, and VMS and *BSD do, I've found that remote filesystems outperform local RD5x storage by a very comfy margin. I haven't had the pleasure of running SDI disks, so I dunno how they'd match up. I do know that my MVIII uses a hack of a lot less power booting off a remote disk than it did spinning up 3 MFM drives. I can only assume that the RAxx use even more juice. Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Feb 24 12:12:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay References: <00fc01c2dbb3$7dfd81f0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> <262066922.20030224061233@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E5A5EF2.8030605@jetnet.ab.ca> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Does anyone have any comments, especially WRT the transportability of this > machine? No idea - but YOU CAN BET it would be foolish not to let other people other people pack and ship it. It may be worth paying the owner to keep it in storage until PROPER arangements can be made. This is not some PC you can get at wallmart. Ben. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Feb 24 12:13:41 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Trivia Question Message-ID: A real computer doesn't know what the square root of negative one is? :-P -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:33 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Trivia Question On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > > If I write a PC emulator that runs on a real computer, does the computer > > become not real? > Or does my PDP-9 emulator running on my PC make IT 'a real computer'. I It significantly enhances its reality coefficient. But a REAL computer has casters, (or a forklift) A REAL computer dims the lights during power-up (for the NEIGHBORHOOD) A REAL computer attracts attention from the Fatherland Security. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Feb 24 12:18:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) Message-ID: The Osborne 1. -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 2:27 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) How many CP/M machines provided both schematics and source code? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 24 12:19:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: DEC disk drive power consumption (was Re: QBUS SCSI card...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030224181515.41540.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Doc Shipley wrote: > I do know that my MVIII uses a hack of a lot less power booting off a > remote disk than it did spinning up 3 MFM drives. I can only assume > that the RAxx use even more juice. Dunno about anything as new as an RA9x, but the RA81 draws 30A surge current (which is why they have that daisy-chain power sequencer port), and 8A steady-state. That's a big honkin' motor in there, plus several square feet of controllers. I have several. I keep them powered off as much as possible. For my 8200, I've been using an MBA SDI<->ESDI box with 1 x 1.2GB ESDI disks. Much better MB/KW ratio. -ethan From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Feb 24 12:22:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) References: <003901c2dbda$7c62d300$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <3E5A615A.6070001@jetnet.ab.ca> Philip Pemberton wrote: > And most Linux users think Linux is better that Windoze - and with good > reason. Is it any wonder most servers on the internet run the Apache HTTP > Server under Linux (or other UNIX derivatives)? Linux is remarkably stable. > Windows is the exact opposite. As a server linux is stable. As a desk top you still can crash or freeze or have the system start thrashing to disk. Windows as a part-time OS where you play a few games, do a little this and that and turn off the computer at the end of your play time works fine. Windows was never designed for multi-user or 24/7 use. Also win/95 is a small os (yes you could get on floppy) compared to a typical modern system. ( yes I know about the tiny linux versions ). Ben. PS A PC-laptop is a real computer,but a tube system is not something to drop on your foot. :) From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 24 12:26:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: QBUS ESDI (was Re: QBUS SCSI card...) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224102200.00a23380@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030224182235.62704.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mail List wrote: > Pick up a Sigma SCD-RQD11/EC when it shows up on eBay > for around $35 to $50 ( or even less these days? )... Are end-user docs for these sorts of controllers available? I wouldn't mind getting a Qbus (or Unibus!) ESDI controller (I have a few drives out of old external Sun SCSI<->ESDI enclosures) but would want one that isn't impossible to configure. My primary OSes would be 2BSD, possibly RSX-11 or RSTS, and maybe even VMS (on an 11/750 or uVAX-II). In the case of 2BSD, I'd want a controller that responds to the xp driver, IIRC. Anyone out there have favorites? -ethan From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 24 12:30:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Need Read-It! v1.02 and/or v1.1 OCR software/manual by Olduvai (forMac) References: Message-ID: <3E5A63F0.3291DE87@rain.org> Hi Sellam, Just curious, what model PDP-8 do you have? I picked up some flip-chip modules (M series) and if you need any of that type, what are the card numbers you need? It looks like most of these were used on the PDP-8I/L. Marvin From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 24 12:31:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: The REAL definition of "REAL" (was: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > A real computer doesn't know what the square root of negative one is? :-P Thank you. Last week, I was explaining to one of my classes the differences between Floating Point and Real. A REAL computer (if there were such - analog??) would have infinite numbers between 1 and 2. A Floating Point system only has about 8 million, and doesn't have any odd numbers above about 16 million. Double precision has substantially more, but still quite clearly finite. From fernande at internet1.net Mon Feb 24 12:48:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E5A67FF.10605@internet1.net> Brian Chase wrote: > This one is definitely a museum piece. My hope would be that the > Computer History Museum ends up with this (assuming they don't already > have one). Given its age, an extensive restoration effort would be in > order if it any attempt were made to run it. Per the auction.... Please, I know how to scrap this out myself, so Scrappers need not bid nor Museums concerning donations. So I guess the guy doesn't want it to go to a museum, but it sure would be a lot for a simgle collectot to handle. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 24 12:50:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Need Read-It! v1.02 and/or v1.1 OCR software/manual by Olduvai (forMac) In-Reply-To: <3E5A63F0.3291DE87@rain.org> Message-ID: <20030224184646.13417.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Marvin Johnston wrote: > Hi Sellam, > > Just curious, what model PDP-8 do you have? I picked up some flip-chip > modules (M series) and if you need any of that type, what are the card > numbers you need? It looks like most of these were used on the PDP-8I/L. The R-series are for the Straight-8 and the -8/S, as well as some of the peripherals of the day (PT08, DF32, etc.) S-series are, IIRC, performance-selected R-series modules (same PCB, qualified semiconductors). There were also B-series (blue-handled), W-series (white-handled) and a few others in common use during the mid-1960s. As for the M-series, you are correct - they were the primary constituents of the PDP-8/L and -8/i, as well as a few other devices of the late 1960s. By the early 1970s, individual M-series modules with specialized components (DEC bus drivers/receivers) were common as parts of Unibus peripherals. The CPUs had moved to Quad-height cards (OMNIBUS and Unibus). I'm always on the lookout for M-series modules to keep my PDP-8/L, PDP-8/i and RK-11C working. Respond to me offline with what handle numbers you have and let's talk. -ethan From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 24 12:56:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay References: <3E5A67FF.10605@internet1.net> Message-ID: <00f201c2dc35$dc4ff440$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > Per the auction.... > Please, I know how to scrap this out myself, so Scrappers need not bid > nor Museums concerning donations. > > So I guess the guy doesn't want it to go to a museum, but it sure would > be a lot for a simgle collectot to handle. Noooooooo he didn't say he didn't want it to go to a museum, he said he didn't want it going "as a donation". Reading between the lines - I'm guessing it's fine with him if it goes to a museum, but he's not going to DONATE it. He wants CASH. Jay West From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 24 12:58:15 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: QBUS ESDI (was Re: QBUS SCSI card...) In-Reply-To: <20030224182235.62704.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224102200.00a23380@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224133706.05bcbd20@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Ethan, I think those Sigma controllers are in the NetBSD supported hardware list Here's a message from Doug Meade, who got one of those from me off eBay a couple of years ago, saying that he has the manual. http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/2002/05/14/0002.html Seems Tim Shoppa is familiar with those also ... Sigma-rebranded version of the Webster WQESD ESDI controller. (DSD and Qualogy also rebranded Webster boards.) http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1999-09/0183.html Mark Green is/was running one. Pat Finnegan is/was too ... ( He must be busy this morning ) http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2002-July/003343.html Best Regards At 10:22 AM 2/24/03 -0800, you wrote: >--- Mail List wrote: > > Pick up a Sigma SCD-RQD11/EC when it shows up on eBay > > for around $35 to $50 ( or even less these days? )... > >Are end-user docs for these sorts of controllers available? I wouldn't >mind getting a Qbus (or Unibus!) ESDI controller (I have a few drives >out of old external Sun SCSI<->ESDI enclosures) but would want one that >isn't impossible to configure. > >My primary OSes would be 2BSD, possibly RSX-11 or RSTS, and maybe >even VMS (on an 11/750 or uVAX-II). In the case of 2BSD, I'd want >a controller that responds to the xp driver, IIRC. > >Anyone out there have favorites? > >-ethan From kth at srv.net Mon Feb 24 13:03:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: The REAL definition of "REAL" (was: Trivia Question References: Message-ID: <3E5A713A.9060406@srv.net> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > > >>A real computer doesn't know what the square root of negative one is? :-P >> >> > >Thank you. >Last week, I was explaining to one of my classes the differences between >Floating Point and Real. > >A REAL computer (if there were such - analog??) would have infinite >numbers between 1 and 2. A Floating Point system only has about 8 >million, and doesn't have any odd numbers above about 16 million. > Does odd/even have much meaning with floating point numbers, real or otherwise? Being even means it can be divided by two without any remainder, but with any king of floating point, remainder doesn't have much meaning. ie. is 3.4 or 3.5 odd or even? What are the reaminders? Is PI odd or even? The only way to decide is to convert them to integers, and then decide, but then you are working with a different set of numbers. >Double precision has substantially more, but still quite clearly >finite. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Feb 24 13:03:53 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E5A67FF.10605@internet1.net> Message-ID: <015201c2dc36$a5691ff0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Chad Fernandez Wrote: > Per the auction.... > Please, I know how to scrap this out myself, so Scrappers need not bid > nor Museums concerning donations. I read that as he doesn't want to donate the computer. I.e. he wants some money. If a museum ponied up the required cash, I'm sure he'd be as happy to collect from them as from any other collector. I hope this does make it into a "public" collection such as the CHM or some similar organization. I'd hate for this rare and impressive a machine to spend any more time in "storage." Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Feb 24 13:06:01 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: The REAL definition of "REAL" (was: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030224190221.54446.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> No there is no REAL computer. An "analog" computer is really digital, the resolution is a function of the charge on an electron and the supply voltage used in a particular application. steve --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > > A real computer doesn't know what the square root > of negative one is? :-P > > Thank you. > Last week, I was explaining to one of my classes the > differences between > Floating Point and Real. > > A REAL computer (if there were such - analog??) > would have infinite > numbers between 1 and 2. A Floating Point system > only has about 8 > million, and doesn't have any odd numbers above > about 16 million. > Double precision has substantially more, but still > quite clearly > finite. From geoffr at zipcon.com Mon Feb 24 13:21:56 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.com (geoffr@zipcon.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: SCSI cards References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224021457.025c9960@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3e59ddeb70afd3.93445681@zipcon.com> I just wish I could find the SCSI controller that a German company made for the DEC Rainbow. it'd be nice to pull the 20 meg HD out and drop a 500 meg SCSI in it's place :) From mike at ambientdesign.com Mon Feb 24 13:22:51 2003 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (Mike van Bokhoven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Identifying a Motolora chip - MC14544? References: <20030224030301.86414.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01c2dbeb$4d328830$3d00a8c0@falco> Hi all, Re a replacement for the Motorola modem IC, try here: http://www.aeri.com/ Apparently they have 15 available. AER seem to be able to track down pretty much anything, though price is another matter. Still, could be worth checking for those really odd parts. It's also interesting to hear that cows on the runway isn't only a New Zealand phenomenon... Mike. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:03 PM Subject: Re: Identifying a Motolora chip - MC14544? > --- JP Hindin wrote: > > Howdy folks; > > > > I'm trying to identify a Motorola chip for my father - his guess is a 300 > > baud modem... > > Give that man a prize! > > I found some PDF files in the Motorola Historical Archives... > > http://merchant.hibbertco.com/fs22/deact/fs11/motorola/MC145442_REV0.PDF > > http://merchant.hibbertco.com/fs22/deact/fs22/pdf-docs/motorola/mc145442b.re v0.pdf > > http://merchant.hibbertco.com/fs22/deact/fs11/motorola/MC145444_REV1.PDF > > I think there's some more digits that he didn't give you that nail > down exactly _which_ rev. > > I have *no* idea where you are going to find a replacement. > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated; Particularly since the people that > > own the property have sold off the end of the strip to a local farmer who > > keeps cows there... And the other pilots are a bit too soft to leap the > > fence and wander through a herd of cattle in the middle of the night just > > to turn on the lamps... > > I've been to a strip in NW Ohio, Fremont, that has a grass strip butting > into a narrow asphalt strip in a Tee shape... the State airport guide > warns that cows may be present on the grass runway and to perform a > flyover before attempting a landing there. > > -ethan From vance at neurotica.com Mon Feb 24 13:27:36 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay In-Reply-To: <00fc01c2dbb3$7dfd81f0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: If I had a job right now, I would buy it. I don't really care about the condition. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > This is truly amazing. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403344993 > > I have no affiliation with this auction whatsoever. I do wonder what my > wife would say if I bought this, though. "Honey, clear out the guest > room, I have a mainframe coming!" > > Erik S. Klein > www.vintage-computer.com From vance at neurotica.com Mon Feb 24 13:28:28 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224021457.025c9960@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > > That's just amazing. I never knew the demand for those things was > > that high. I wish the guy that was doing the IDE controllers had > > entered production. :) > > I think a lot of people, "personal users" too, are getting tired of > struggling with RD-5x drive unreliability, and/or want the larger > storage capacities they could obtain with SCSI There's also the people who need to use them in production environments, but can't afford to buy one new. (Yes, they are still very much in production, for those who don't know...) Peace... Sridhar From stuart at stuartsjohnsonfamily.net Mon Feb 24 13:29:17 2003 From: stuart at stuartsjohnsonfamily.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: 3 BC26V-12 cables available Message-ID: <05b301c2dc1c$0cf9aec0$0200a8c0@cosmo> I recently received a bunch of stuff, including 3 each BC26V-12 SI disk cables, frequently used with RA60, RA80, etc. disk drives. I have no use for them, so if anyone wants them, they are available for the shipping expense. Contact me off list if you are interested, tell me how many (1-3) you want. These cables came from my previous employer and were removed some years ago from working equipment (that I decommissioned when I worked there) and should be fully usable. First come first served. Regards, Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter DOT net // should be obvious how to fix email address From Mark.Meyrick at beck-pollitzer.com Mon Feb 24 13:30:15 2003 From: Mark.Meyrick at beck-pollitzer.com (Mark Meyrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: MVME 333-2 Message-ID: Dear Sir, We have a client who is desperate to purchase an MVME 333-2, can you give me an idea of where I might get hold of one of these. We regularly get requests to find old XVME equipment so please keep me informed of any equipment you aquire and I will do the same. Best regards Mark Meyrick Technical Project Manager Beck & Pollitzer Control Systems Tel: 0044 1621 890310 Fax: 0044 1621 890319 ________________________________________________________________________ This message is intended solely for the use of the individual or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged or confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please notify the originator immediately. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not use, copy, alter, or disclose the contents of this message. All information or opinions expressed in this message and/or any attachments are those of the author and are not necessarily those of Beck & Pollitzer Engineering Ltd. Beck & Pollitzer Engineering Ltd accepts no responsibility for loss or damage arising from its use, including damage from virus. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses by MessageLabs. ________________________________________________________________________ From bill at timeguy.com Mon Feb 24 13:31:04 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Wanted - Vacuum Tube Protyping Boards Message-ID: <20030224112914.S55876-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> A friend of mine is getting heavily into building radios, digital clocks (using nixie tubes and/or miniature vector displays), etc. from tubes. I've been thinking that some of those nifty prototyping boards like we used in high school would be great for him to use for testing new designs. The ones I used had a base made of clear plastic with an array of holes in the top which lead in sets of 5 or so to a common set of metal contacts. There were dozens of sets of contacts on each board. The tubes were mounted in sockets on small squares of PC board with traces leading to pins along the edges. These pins would plug into holes on the base, and you would plug wires into the other holes on the same contact strip to connect something to that pin. There were also inductors, variable caps, pots, etc. on small boards. Any idea where I might be able to buy something like this setup these days? From jacqui at newcorp.co.uk Mon Feb 24 13:31:52 2003 From: jacqui at newcorp.co.uk (jacqui) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: HP Apollo 710 Message-ID: <00cb01c2dc20$9ff9af00$1200a8c0@ncsadmin2> Hi I'm looking at buying a HP Apollo 9000 Model 710 32MB, can you give me a price to buy?? Thanks Jacqui NEWCORP SERVICES Tel: 01477 505615 Fax: 01477 500242 email: jacqui@newcorp.co.uk www.newcorp.co.uk From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Feb 24 13:33:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: <003901c2dbda$7c62d300$0100000a@milkyway> References: <003901c2dbda$7c62d300$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <20030224195221.GP12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Philip Pemberton, from writings of Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 07:58:15AM -0000: > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > And most Linux users think Linux is better that Windoze - and with good And most FreeBSD users know that FreeBSD is better than Linux. ;-) > reason. Is it any wonder most servers on the internet run the Apache HTTP > Server under Linux (or other UNIX derivatives)? Linux is remarkably stable. > Windows is the exact opposite. (Red Hat) Linux crashes more easily than FreeBSD... or at least it did a couple of years ago, but M$-Windoze is worse. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 24 13:35:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: 3 BC26V-12 cables available In-Reply-To: <05b301c2dc1c$0cf9aec0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <20030224193046.57408.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Stuart Johnson wrote: > I recently received a bunch of stuff, including 3 each BC26V-12 SI disk > cables, frequently used with RA60, RA80, etc. disk drives. Internal or external? If they are internal (light grey, IIRC), I'm interested in all three. If external, I'll pass on them. I have plenty of external (black, rubberized) SDI cables. Thanks, -ethan From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 24 13:35:49 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: QBUS ESDI (was Re: QBUS SCSI card...) In-Reply-To: <20030224182235.62704.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224102200.00a23380@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: >--- Mail List wrote: >> Pick up a Sigma SCD-RQD11/EC when it shows up on eBay >> for around $35 to $50 ( or even less these days? )... > >Are end-user docs for these sorts of controllers available? I wouldn't >mind getting a Qbus (or Unibus!) ESDI controller (I have a few drives >out of old external Sun SCSI<->ESDI enclosures) but would want one that >isn't impossible to configure. > >My primary OSes would be 2BSD, possibly RSX-11 or RSTS, and maybe >even VMS (on an 11/750 or uVAX-II). In the case of 2BSD, I'd want >a controller that responds to the xp driver, IIRC. > >Anyone out there have favorites? I like the Webster WQESD/4 controller, it's got some really sweet capabilities (such as having hard partitions that you can use to boot RT-11 from different partitions). I'm not sure about 2BSD, but it should support everything else you list. I've used it with drives out of old external Sun SCSI<->ESDI enclosures. The downside with ESDI controllers is that the drives are getting hard to find, and I assume they're starting to develope reliability problems. Here is the manual for that board: ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/hardware/WQESD.pdf Still, I've since switched to Viking SCSI adapters for my PDP-11/23+, PDP-11/44, and PDP-11/73. They're able to support 4mm DAT, CD-ROM, and small, quiet, lower power SCSI HD's. Oh, the WQESD's will also provide a DU bootstrap (and I think others) for the PDP-11, until I got a quad-height /73 board, it's only purpose in my /73 was to provide the bootstrap (with the console on a DLV11J). One of these days I might convert the /23+ to a /73 that way. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Feb 24 13:41:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Wanted - Vacuum Tube Protyping Boards References: <20030224112914.S55876-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3E5A73C6.2070601@jetnet.ab.ca> Bill Richman wrote: > A friend of mine is getting heavily into building radios, digital clocks > (using nixie tubes and/or miniature vector displays), etc. from tubes. > I've been thinking that some of those nifty prototyping boards like we > used in high school would be great for him to use for testing new designs. > The ones I used had a base made of clear plastic with an array of > holes in the top which lead in sets of 5 or so to a common set of metal > contacts. There were dozens of sets of contacts on each board. The tubes > were mounted in sockets on small squares of PC board with traces leading > to pins along the edges. These pins would plug into holes on the base, > and you would plug wires into the other holes on the same contact strip to > connect something to that pin. There were also inductors, variable caps, > pots, etc. on small boards. Any idea where I might be able to buy > something like this setup these days? Check here for breadboards and tubes. http://www.tubesandmore.com/ Check here for nixie tubes http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/nixies.html#catalog From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 24 13:43:15 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: SCSI cards In-Reply-To: <3e59ddeb70afd3.93445681@zipcon.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224021457.025c9960@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224143707.00a22ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> What was the name of the German company? At 12:55 AM 2/24/03 -0800, you wrote: >I just wish I could find the SCSI controller that a German company made >for the DEC Rainbow. it'd be nice to pull the 20 meg HD out and drop a >500 meg SCSI in it's place :) From kth at srv.net Mon Feb 24 13:46:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Wanted - Vacuum Tube Protyping Boards References: <20030224112914.S55876-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3E5A7A9E.4020600@srv.net> Bill Richman wrote: >A friend of mine is getting heavily into building radios, digital clocks >(using nixie tubes and/or miniature vector displays), etc. from tubes. >I've been thinking that some of those nifty prototyping boards like we >used in high school would be great for him to use for testing new designs. >The ones I used had a base made of clear plastic with an array of >holes in the top which lead in sets of 5 or so to a common set of metal >contacts. There were dozens of sets of contacts on each board. The tubes >were mounted in sockets on small squares of PC board with traces leading >to pins along the edges. These pins would plug into holes on the base, >and you would plug wires into the other holes on the same contact strip to >connect something to that pin. There were also inductors, variable caps, >pots, etc. on small boards. Any idea where I might be able to buy >something like this setup these days? > > > Were these called something like Devry boards? From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Feb 24 13:49:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: QBUS ESDI (was Re: QBUS SCSI card...) In-Reply-To: <20030224182235.62704.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Are end-user docs for these sorts of controllers available? Yes, mostly. > My primary OSes would be 2BSD, possibly RSX-11 or RSTS, and maybe > even VMS (on an 11/750 or uVAX-II). In the case of 2BSD, I'd want > a controller that responds to the xp driver, IIRC. Most of these controllers emulate KDA50 (Qbus) or UDA50 (Unibus), so are readily supported by most, if not all DEC(-related) OSes. > Anyone out there have favorites? I have Emulex and Dilog, and like them both a lot. --fred From iamvirtual at hotmail.com Mon Feb 24 14:20:01 2003 From: iamvirtual at hotmail.com (Fred Flintstone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 Message-ID: I have a PDP-11/10 (a.k.a PDP-11/05) which I am attempting to bring back to life. It was placed in storage many years back, and appears to be in good condition. I am at the point where I can enter programs from the front panel and execute them (core memory and processor appear to work). I have a LA36 hooked up as the console to the SLU. I think the TS03 tape drive may work, and I am in the process of cleaning a RK05 disk drive and disk pack. My question is, what am I looking for in order to load RT-11? Is RT-11 easier to install via tape, or am I looking for a bootable disk pack? At this point, I am not looking for specifics, I need to know what is the general means to bootstrap RT-11 onto a PDP-11. This exercise is a precursor to getting a PDP-11/20 up and running. I would also like to know if one of the PDP-11 emulators would assist me to learn what I need to do in terms of bootstrapping a system. I have used a PDP-11 10+ years ago, but never needed to bootstrap a system. Thanks for any assistance. --barryM From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 24 14:33:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: The REAL definition of "REAL" (was: Trivia Question In-Reply-To: <3E5A713A.9060406@srv.net> Message-ID: > >numbers between 1 and 2. A Floating Point system only has about 8 > >million, and doesn't have any odd numbers above about 16 million. On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > Does odd/even have much meaning with floating point numbers, > real or otherwise? Yes, it DOES. The point is that with floating point numbers, there are GAPS. BIG gaps. Try storing a value of 100,000,001.0 in floating point. You can't. If you store 2147483649.0 in float, it will store 2147483648.0 [IEEE float, not any customized or imaginary system] > Being even means it can be divided by two without any remainder, OR having a remainder of 0.0 > but with any king of floating point, remainder doesn't have much > meaning. ie. is 3.4 or 3.5 odd or even? What are the reaminders? odd, odd, 1.4, 1.5 > Is PI odd or even? odd but 4.0 is considered to be EVEN. > The only way to decide is to convert them to integers, and then > decide, but then you are working with a different set of numbers. NOPE. While it is, admittedly, an integer concept, any integer multiple of 2.0 (remainder of 0.0) is considered to be an even number. AND THE RELEVANT part is that NO number over 16M that is not an integer multiple of 2.0 can be stored in floating point! Past 8M, there are no floating point numbers that are not exactly equal to integers. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 24 14:46:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1700.4.20.168.204.1046119340.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> barryM wrote: > My question is, what am I looking for in order to load RT-11? Is RT-11 > easier to install via tape, or am I looking for a bootable disk pack? Can be done from either. I've never installed RT11 from tape, but the manuals describe it. I don't have a bootable tape, though, and I don't know enough about it to generate one. > I would also like to know if one of the PDP-11 emulators would assist me > to learn what I need to do in terms of bootstrapping a system. I have > used a PDP-11 10+ years ago, but never needed to bootstrap a system. Either Bob Supnik's SIMH or John Wilson's E11 should work fine for you. I've run RT11 and RSTS/E on both. Eric From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 24 15:30:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030224212633.56132.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Fred Flintstone wrote: > I have a PDP-11/10 (a.k.a PDP-11/05) which I am attempting to bring back > to life.... > My question is, what am I looking for in order to load RT-11? Is RT-11 > easier to install via tape, or am I looking for a bootable disk pack? I have personally only seen RT-11 distributed on disk - RX01 and RK05 for older versions (v4 and older); RX02, RX50 and RL02 for newer versions (v5.x) > At this point, I am not looking for specifics, I need to know what is the > general means to bootstrap RT-11 onto a PDP-11. This exercise is a > precursor to getting a PDP-11/20 up and running. Typically, you need the device-specific bootstrap for your bootable medium (tape, disk, or whatever)... In the case of an RX01, it's a few dozen instructions. In the case of the RK05, it's very few. > I would also like to know if one of the PDP-11 emulators would assist me > to learn what I need to do in terms of bootstrapping a system. Yes. E-11 or SIMH would help you practice what's required. For the full experience, you'd need a container file with the desired files in the intended format. the RT-11 distros that are out there for SIMH are disk image files - 1.6MB (RK05) in the case of v4, and 10MB (RL02) in the case of v5.3. Not sure what you'd do about a tape for your TS03. What disk devices do you have for your 11/10? Just the RK05? One drive or multiple? -ethan From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 24 15:46:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: from "Mail List" at Feb 24, 2003 02:21:42 AM Message-ID: <200302242143.h1OLhCo06419@shell1.aracnet.com> > The truth is, if you are willing to wait, I've even seen some go as low as > the $40+ > to $60+ range? With some, condition might be poor, or they may not be > operational > and be being sold as is, but they might also be just fine. That's the eBay > gamble. I > do remember the MTI QTS-25 I had sold on eBay a couple of years ago to > Zane went for only $50 The thing to remember is that the controllers in that price range are tape only. For example, that MTI QTS-25 was tape only as I recall (or to put it another way, I don't recall buying any SCSI controllers on eBay that weren't tape only :^) The jump in value from Tape only to disk only is pretty huge, then there is a lesser jump in value from Disk only to Disk/Tape. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 24 15:54:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: from "Gene Buckle" at Feb 24, 2003 06:57:12 AM Message-ID: <200302242150.h1OLoKI06842@shell1.aracnet.com> > Well I've got a KDA-50 board set so I'm not _totally_ out in the cold, but > it sure would be nice to use a drive that a) wasn't 150lbs (RA81) and b) > wasn't 3 feet long (RA92). Neither of which fit in the BA123(? nice > roll-around chassis, card cage is on the right side) enclosures that my 2 > MicroVAXen use. That's what rack's are for :^) I've got a MicroVAX III in storage that I built to read RL01's and RL02's. It uses 4 RA7x's in enclosures the size of a RA9x enclosure (I've got two of those as well). The MV3 lives in a 3rd party rack mount and the whole thing sits in the bottom of an old PDP-11 rack that I bought empty. Thankfully I don't have any RA8x drives! Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 24 15:56:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: DEC disk drive power consumption (was Re: QBUS SCSI card...) In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 24, 2003 10:15:15 AM Message-ID: <200302242152.h1OLqVM06949@shell1.aracnet.com> > --- Doc Shipley wrote: > > I do know that my MVIII uses a hack of a lot less power booting off a > > remote disk than it did spinning up 3 MFM drives. I can only assume > > that the RAxx use even more juice. > > Dunno about anything as new as an RA9x, but the RA81 draws 30A surge > current (which is why they have that daisy-chain power sequencer port), > and 8A steady-state. That's a big honkin' motor in there, plus several > square feet of controllers. I'd recommend RA7x instead. The RA9x drives are 8", while the RA7x drives are 5.25". Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 24 16:02:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Feb 24, 2003 11:45:52 AM Message-ID: <200302242158.h1OLwcn07190@shell1.aracnet.com> > If your OS supports it, and VMS and *BSD do, I've found that remote > filesystems outperform local RD5x storage by a very comfy margin. I > haven't had the pleasure of running SDI disks, so I dunno how they'd > match up. > > I do know that my MVIII uses a hack of a lot less power booting off a > remote disk than it did spinning up 3 MFM drives. I can only assume > that the RAxx use even more juice. By a remote disk, I assume you're talking about a 3.5" SCSI disk sitting in a remote VMS or *BSD box? In such a configuration you still should (if possible) have a local swap disk. Zane From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 24 16:25:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: DEC disk drive power consumption (was Re: QBUS SCSI card...) In-Reply-To: <200302242152.h1OLqVM06949@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20030224222157.7769.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Dunno about anything as new as an RA9x, but the RA81 draws 30A surge > > current... and 8A steady-state. > > I'd recommend RA7x instead. The RA9x drives are 8", while the RA7x > drives are 5.25". I have a couple of RA70s. I have yet to power them on. I would like to find some in-cabinet SDI cables first (lightweight ones; I have several of the big, black rubberized ones). My goal is to put them in my BA123 and get away from the RQDX3. If I thought I had enough room in a BA23 for the KDA50 and enough cards to make it worth the effort, I'd consider that, but between cabling and power consumption, I don't know if that's a good idea. OTOH, they'd be *great* with an 11/750... finally the CPU would suck more power than the disks (mine has a Fuji 170MB drive, a Fuji Eagle, an SI9900, and an RA81). I am _not_ shopping for any RA9X drives (but even one would be a lot better than a rack of RA81s ;-) -ethan From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Feb 24 16:27:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: 3 BC26V-12 cables available References: <20030224193046.57408.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <064a01c2dc53$4c412810$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:30 PM Subject: Re: 3 BC26V-12 cables available > --- Stuart Johnson wrote: > > I recently received a bunch of stuff, including 3 each BC26V-12 SI disk > > cables, frequently used with RA60, RA80, etc. disk drives. > > Internal or external? > > If they are internal (light grey, IIRC), I'm interested in all three. If > external, I'll pass on them. I have plenty of external (black, rubberized) > SDI cables. > > Thanks, > > -ethan Ethan, They are external. Sorry about not posting this detail earlier - to tell the truth it did not occur to me that there were internal cables with this part number. I will email the folks that responded and let them know that they are external and let them rethink their requests. Thanks, Stuart Johnson From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Feb 24 16:28:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: <200302242158.h1OLwcn07190@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > By a remote disk, I assume you're talking about a 3.5" SCSI disk sitting in > a remote VMS or *BSD box? In such a configuration you still should (if > possible) have a local swap disk. I know that's the standard wisdom, but the read/write speeds of all the MFM disks I've tried on my RQDX3s are significantly slower than network reads and writes. I did some not-horribly-scientific testing on my MVIII around that. Local disk-to-disk transfers (in NetBSD) are *much* slower than NFS-NFS operations, even when the NFS fs were on 2 different machines, and memory-intensive operations (starting an X desktop with fvwm for remote display) were about 15% faster *without* local swap. I recognize the possibility that the NetBSD drivers may have a lot to do with that, but my VMS skills are not up to setting up that kind of benchmarks. This was all on a KA-650 CPU, 13MB RAM, RQDX3 w/RD54, and a DEQNA ethernet board. I used a 16MB swap file on the NFS server. Doc From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Feb 24 16:31:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030224220737.01af08a0@slave> Evenin' all. Uploaded tonight for your viewing pleasure, just over 60 pix of the HP1000's that Tim found & saved a few weeks ago, now parked lovingly (erm) in my shed... http://classic-micros.com/hp1000 (Note to Hans: I *know* I've not put the picture sizes in the img tags, I'm just too darn lazy, OK?) :) Anyway, a brief tale of what happened this last w/e... On Saturday, I picked up the 3 terminals & assorted other tapes, plus the disc controller from Tim, thus completing the rescue. Back to the shed for some well deserved tinkering time :) A long poke around in the manuals convinced me that: a) I have no docs for the F-series machines :( They're all for the A700... b) There was no system installation guide :( Thus thwarted, I decided buggrit, I'll carry out the cardinal sin, and just power the things up anyway. Fortunately, a kindly sysadmin had labelled the tape drive connectors, so they could be applied to the correct slot. Not so with the MUX cable; and besides, the other end of the MUX seemed to be missing anyway (i.e the DeMUXer). So, my total experimentation with the F-series was limited to pressing buttons on the panel and getting the blinkenlights to blinken. Which they did in a most satisfactory manner, I might add. Efforts to do anything with the tape drive were also effectively thwarted; I did manage to get a tape loaded, and the "on line" light to blinken (well, "come on" would be more accurate"). No amount of pressing front panel buttons would make them spin on their own, however. Ho hum. So, I tried the A700, which at least will talk to a terminal. Unfortunately, it won't listen to the terminal, so there's something a bit fishy going on there as well. That boot screen was as far as I got. Ho hum ^ 2. So, I made do with loading a disc (dunno where to plug it in to the 1000, though, so can't load anything from it, even if I knew the correct pushenbutton sequence). Questions/requests arising: 1) Does *anyone* here know anyone (or IS someone) who is/was a sysadmin (or related/married to same) of an F-series HP 1000? If so, can you/they render any help? 2) Does anyone have access to a set of F-series manuals, especially installation reference manuals? If so, are they in electronic format; if not, can you/they bear to part with them for at least as long as it will take me to scan them? 3) Has anyone got a suitable demuxer? (8-port, takes centronix plug & has 8 D25 socket outputs) Cheers y'all. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 24 16:47:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030224220737.01af08a0@slave> Message-ID: <000d01c2dc56$772aff80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Adrian wrote... > Uploaded tonight for your viewing pleasure, just over 60 pix of the > HP1000's that Tim found & saved a few weeks ago, now parked lovingly (erm) > in my shed... > > http://classic-micros.com/hp1000 I am betting that HP1000 is REALLY upset, being located under a "micro's" url ;) Jay West From aek at spies.com Mon Feb 24 17:02:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay Message-ID: <200302242301.h1ON1mX8015718@spies.com> I just put up three docs at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/univac/univac3 that will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about the Univac III One of the reasons it wasn't very popular was they didn't maintain backwards software compatibility with the I and II on the III. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Feb 24 17:08:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: Fw: old alpha in the bay area (free) Message-ID: <006a01c2dc59$558f7420$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "seph" To: Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 2:07 PM Subject: old alpha in the bay area (free) > I have an old alpha I want to get rid of, I really don't want to have > to throw it away. It lives at my house, in the bay area. If you'll > come and get it, it's free. It does work, I installed netbsd onto it > awhile back. > > It's missing its model tag, but I believe it's an old dec3000. here's > what I do know: > > it's turbo channel > > it's not small (about the size of a full pc tower) > > it's got 4 disks. 3 rz25s and 1 rz26 > > it's got 256 megs of RAM. > > it comes with a monitor. a sony gdm 1926 (yes, you have to take the > monitor) > > it has a cdrom (caddy based, I have caddies) > > it has a tape drive I don't recognize. > > > If for reason there's an overwealming response, I'll be swayed by > useage and how soon people can pick it up. > > please reply to me, I'm not subbed to the list. > > seph From aek at spies.com Mon Feb 24 17:10:17 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures Message-ID: <200302242308.h1ON8Ol0017299@spies.com> Does anyone have access to a set of F-series manuals, especially installation reference manuals? -- I have over 100 manuals for HP's 16 bit series. Most have been scanned some are up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/hp Unfortunately, with the exception of the FE handbooks, HP tended to put out dozens of small manuals which scatters the information that you need out all over the place. From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Feb 24 17:13:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: <000d01c2dc56$772aff80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030224220737.01af08a0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030224230413.01aed498@slave> At 22:45 24/02/2003, you wrote: >Adrian wrote... > > Uploaded tonight for your viewing pleasure, just over 60 pix of the > > HP1000's that Tim found & saved a few weeks ago, now parked lovingly (erm) > > in my shed... > > > > http://classic-micros.com/hp1000 > >I am betting that HP1000 is REALLY upset, being located under a "micro's" >url ;) Maybe that's why it won't blinken properly? I suppose I'll just have to purchase classic-minicomputers.com & classic-mainframes.com as well; trouble is, I'll need to collect a load more of them then - and my shed isn't *that* big - at least, not with all the racing car gear in there as well :) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Feb 24 17:21:01 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:16 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures Message-ID: Look here: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/hp/1000/ When you open the front panel of the HP1000F does it have a sticker inside with 1 - 4 numbers of the form 12992A - 12992L ? Those are the loader ROM part numbers. Take a look at the document 12992-90001_loaderRomsApr86.pdf which describes the various loader ROMs which you may have installed in your CPU. The document also describes how to load and execute the loader ROMs. >From: Adrian Vickers > >2) Does anyone have access to a set of F-series manuals, especially >installation reference manuals? If so, are they in electronic format; if >not, can you/they bear to part with them for at least as long as it will >take me to scan them? From fm.arnold at gmx.net Mon Feb 24 17:24:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: M9312 Bootstrap Questions In-Reply-To: <20030224180001.52842.15823.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030224180001.52842.15823.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 24.02.2003: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:48:36 +0100 From: Andreas Freiherr Subject: Re: M9312 Bootstrap Questions >Jeffrey, > >are you sure the 11/34 manual is talking about the M9312? - I seem to >remember that my copy describes the M9301, of which, IIRC, there are >-YA, -YB, and -YF versions. > >Since all M9301s are completely different from the M9312, it would be no >surprise if you cannot match the switches between docs and hardware... > >Andreas > >Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >> Ok, I got my PDP-11/34 mounted in its rack and have started to audit >> jumpers, switches, etc. I am being cornfused by the M9312 bootstrap >> terminator module. >> >> First, I'm confused about what version of the module I have. My 11/34 user's >> manual (EK-11034-UG-001 '77) talks about a -YA, -YB, and -YF version of the >> board. My M9312 manual (EK-M9312-TM-003 '81) talks only in terms of >> bootstrap ROM part numbers. The DIP switch references in the two documents >> conflict, even differing on the switch settings necessary just to boot into >> the console emulator. >--------------------- thinking back some 18-20 years, you are right on this comment that the -YA -Yb -YF variationd appley to the M9301 only, that module has no easy upgradable proms, but standard multiboot configurations. The keydifference is that M9312 stores one PDP11 instruction in 4 consecutive nibbles of the prom, therefoere 1 Prom = 1 Bootdevice. The 9301 has a conventional structure where the 4 proms are placed adjacent and each prom provides 4 bits of the program. Therefore if you modify the 9301, all 4 proms must be changed at the same time. I had to do it once, adding a new device to the boot routine, splitting it into the roms, burn those and get it to work, and I remember it was a tedious job. Frank From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 24 17:33:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Identifying a Motolora chip - MC14544? In-Reply-To: from "Doug Jackson" at Feb 24, 3 03:45:13 pm Message-ID: > Wasn't that chip used in the Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 machines. I thought the M100 uses the 14412 chip... > > I remember playing with the Band Pass filters to convince the TRS-80 to work > with CCITT tones, instaed of the Bell tones that were used in USA. That was > a while ago IIRC, the 14412 didn't demodulate CCITT tones reliably at 300 baud. The better-designed UK modems that used this chip at all used it for the modulator only and used something like an XR2211 for the demodulator. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 24 17:35:27 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Identifying a Fujitsu chip - MB15140? In-Reply-To: <3e.2c633801.2b8b0ef9@aol.com> from "Innfogra@aol.com" at Feb 24, 3 01:00:25 am Message-ID: > Wow! You guys are good. Maybe you can help me. I need some Fujitsu chip > information. > > I have a bunch of Fujitsu MB15140 CR-G with a date code of 8809 I would > like to know what they are. Found it..... It's a 'TTL Bipolar 500-gate Master Slice LSI' gate array, set up as the HDA sequencer for the 2351 Eagle drive. According to the manual for that drive, this chip handles the sequnce control of the spidle motor and the generation of machine status information. I could type out the pinout, but it's not much use without the complete drive schematics -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 24 17:37:44 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 Question In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030223194404.022fd300@localhost> from "Chris Saunders" at Feb 23, 3 07:48:46 pm Message-ID: > Hi Tony, You've posted to a large mailing list, not to one person. But I suspect it's me you're asking for, as I do have a few HX20s, and I have the manuals.. > > Saw your posts on the net regarding HX-20's. I was wondering if you would > be able to give me a couple pointers. I picked a hx-20 up a few years ago, > and am now getting a chance to play with it. I have downloaded and read the > 3 PDF's on Epson's site. I have not been able to find a copy of the BASIC > Tutorial. I'ev never seen a tutorial manual for it. The only BASIC manual I have is the refernce manual, which assumes you know BASIC. > > I have a ROM installed in the _bottom_ of the unit. Not in the expansion > slot, which is filled with the Cassette Unit. Yes, there is a spare ROM socket on these machines. IIRC, BASIC fits in 4 ROMs/EPROMs, and there are 5 sockets. Electrically, this socket is very different from the module that fits in place of the tape drive. The former is directly mapped into the main CPUs memory map. The latter is a device accessed bit-serially via I/O ports. This means (amongst other things) that you can directly run machine code programs in the ROM in the spare socket on the main CPU board, but you have to copy rpgorams from ROMs in the ROM cartridge into RAM before you can run them > > Should the ROM be autodetected, or does it have to be loaded? It depends. I think some ROMs were autodetected, some you had to CALL a particular address for them to appear on the main menu, others just contained routines that you could CALL from your BASIC programs. > > If loaded, how to I load it? See above, and panic! -tony From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 24 17:40:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: DEC disk drive power consumption (was Re: QBUS SCSI In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 24, 2003 02:21:57 PM Message-ID: <200302242334.h1ONYkC13131@shell1.aracnet.com> > in my BA123 and get away from the RQDX3. If I thought I had enough room > in a BA23 for the KDA50 and enough cards to make it worth the effort, > I'd consider that, but between cabling and power consumption, I don't I don't think you can put a KDA50 in a BA23, isn't the reason that "Corporate Cabinets" have dual BA23's in the rack so that you've got enough power for everything? At least I seem to remember reading that was the reason. Zane From kenziem at sympatico.ca Mon Feb 24 17:43:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Stratus and 220V Message-ID: <20030224233913.SPSZ19204.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> My name is at the top of the list for a Stratus high availability server that is going out of service. Is there anyone here interested in these machines? This has dual G86010 cpu's, expansion cabinet. It was recently in use as a test switch for an ATM network. There is a second machine that will be available in a years time. Is it a simple task to switch a machine from 220 20a to run off household current 110 15a? From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Feb 24 18:02:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay In-Reply-To: <262066922.20030224061233@subatomix.com> Message-ID: > I'm seriously thinking about what I would need to rescue this beast. I > probably have room for it in my garage (tight fit though), where it would > sit for several years until I could afford my own place (which very well may > be a warehouse with a bed in one corner :-) ). I see two problems with this > monster: I think this is larger than you think. I doubt it would fir into a single or 1 1/2 car garage. > Does anyone have any comments, especially WRT the transportability of this > machine? A few of us are card carrying Univac movers, and I can tell you that they are not at all fun to move. Univac made things like IBM, but did not put casters on anything. They also did not put handles, or nice places to grip the cabinets. At bare minumum, you need a pallet jack to move one of these. This is very interesting, but a real gamble. It is hard to see what is there, and what is not. I am disappointed that the seller wants a cashiers check within 3 days of the end of the auction. This is pretty severe, and probably too much of a strain on many bidders. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Feb 24 18:17:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030224220737.01af08a0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030225001218.00bb1b80@slave> At 22:25 24/02/2003, you wrote: >http://classic-micros.com/hp1000 OK, I've fixed the broken links now, so all the pix should load. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Feb 24 18:20:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030225001451.01a4a6c8@slave> At 23:17 24/02/2003, you wrote: >When you open the front panel of the HP1000F does it have a sticker inside >with 1 - 4 numbers of the form 12992A - 12992L ? Umph - pass. I'll have to have a look when I'm next back up north (I live 250 miles away from where the machines are). >Those are the loader ROM part numbers. Take a look at the document >12992-90001_loaderRomsApr86.pdf which describes the various loader ROMs >which you may have installed in your CPU. The document also describes how >to load and execute the loader ROMs. Eek - fitting them looks to be a swine of an operation! Still, these machines must already have some in, otherwise they'd have been pretty useless... I'll have another poke around inside them when I'm next up north (2 or 4 weeks time). -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Feb 24 18:20:55 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: <200302242308.h1ON8Ol0017299@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030225001244.00b40580@slave> At 23:08 24/02/2003, you wrote: >Does anyone have access to a set of F-series manuals, especially >installation reference manuals? > >-- > >I have over 100 manuals for HP's 16 bit series. Most have been scanned >some are up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/hp Thanks - that looks like an excellent resource; I shall be browsing copiously I think. >Unfortunately, with the exception of the FE handbooks, HP tended to put >out dozens of small manuals which scatters the information that you need >out all over the place. I suppose it made sense at the time - the machine was in one place, the operators were in one place, so all the many & various manuals would be in one place. Unfortunately, the manuals seem to be the first things to go missing as a system gets "retired". Hey-ho. Monteray Systems still reckon they support HP 1000 stuff, perhaps they've got something useful; I just hope it won't break the bank. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jwstephens at cox.net Mon Feb 24 18:22:01 2003 From: jwstephens at cox.net (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Stratus and 220V References: <20030224233913.SPSZ19204.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3E5AB601.A03CA6A3@cox.net> do you mean 68010's they had systems with 68K's and also with 88100's (almost the death of them, they believed Motorola's BS about the 88k) The periperherals they used were 110, so should switch. I don't recall whether the actual PS modules were or not. A lot of these machines had to be made 220 because UL got a wild hair up it's butt that you couldn't run 30 amps of 110 thru a metal bulkhead safely, so to run these cabinets, each bay needed 220 / 20 A but the insides were frequently designed before the 220 requirement, so you get some wild wiring on the AC of some boxes. I know that there were a lot of Honeywell Level 6's that had 220 on the back but were all 110 inside. Note: the cumulative power was 30+ amp at 110, but if you could have run 3 extension cords to one bay (also a no no) there would have been no problem. So you had to run 220 thru the bulkhead and break it up. This only applies to 220 2 phase type power, not 208 3 phase, which is different. Most of those systems have no 110 in them at all. Jim Mike wrote: > My name is at the top of the list for a Stratus high availability server that > is going out of service. > > Is there anyone here interested in these machines? > > This has dual G86010 cpu's, expansion cabinet. It was recently in use as a > test switch for an ATM network. > > There is a second machine that will be available in a years time. > > Is it a simple task to switch a machine from 220 20a to run off household > current 110 15a? From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Feb 24 18:28:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: DEC disk drive power consumption (was Re: QBUS SCSI In-Reply-To: <200302242334.h1ONYkC13131@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I don't think you can put a KDA50 in a BA23, isn't the reason that > "Corporate Cabinets" have dual BA23's in the rack so that you've got enough > power for everything? At least I seem to remember reading that was the > reason. Correct, you'll fry the BA23's power supply. The KDA50's are power-hungry beasts, which indeed was the reason for the weird MV2-style dual-ba23-bolted-together racks. One for the system itself, one for the KDA50. --fred From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Mon Feb 24 18:31:00 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Identifying a Motolora chip - MC14544? Message-ID: >> Wasn't that chip used in the Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 machines. >I thought the M100 uses the 14412 chip... Yep, You are right. >> >> I remember playing with the Band Pass filters to convince the >>TRS-80 to work >> with CCITT tones, instaed of the Bell tones that were used in >>USA. That was a while ago >IIRC, the 14412 didn't demodulate CCITT tones reliably at 300 baud. The >better-designed UK modems that used this chip at all used it for the >modulator only and used something like an XR2211 for the demodulator. Ahh, That explains why it was allways fussy about signal levels. The data sheet said that it could do it, and I had to alter the level of the BELL/CCITT pin. - doug CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 24 19:26:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Feb 24, 2003 04:24:53 PM Message-ID: <200302250122.h1P1Mko19919@shell1.aracnet.com> Doc wrote: > On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > By a remote disk, I assume you're talking about a 3.5" SCSI disk sitting in > > a remote VMS or *BSD box? In such a configuration you still should (if > > possible) have a local swap disk. > > I know that's the standard wisdom, but the read/write speeds of all > the MFM disks I've tried on my RQDX3s are significantly slower than > network reads and writes. That's interesting. I'd really not taken the slowness of the MFM disks into account. It also makes a certain sense. Besides come to think of it, that "standard wisdom" is generally applied to VAXstation 3100 or 4000 class systems. Though I've been known to recommend booting a VAX 6000 class system off of a VAXstation 4000/vlc. > I did some not-horribly-scientific testing on my MVIII around that. > Local disk-to-disk transfers (in NetBSD) are *much* slower than NFS-NFS > operations, even when the NFS fs were on 2 different machines, and > memory-intensive operations (starting an X desktop with fvwm for remote > display) were about 15% faster *without* local swap. > I recognize the possibility that the NetBSD drivers may have a lot to > do with that, but my VMS skills are not up to setting up that kind of > benchmarks. > This was all on a KA-650 CPU, 13MB RAM, RQDX3 w/RD54, and a DEQNA > ethernet board. I used a 16MB swap file on the NFS server. You're making me wish I could give this a try under VMS. I wonder where on earth I've got my pair of RD54's stashed. I know where everything else is that would be required to temporarily switch a PDP-11 over to a MicroVAX II. It would make for some interesting testing, and I've been wanting to us a MicroVAX II to practice my system tuning skills (improvements are more noticable on a MVII). Zane From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Feb 24 19:40:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: SCSI cards In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224143707.00a22ec0@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> References: <3e59ddeb70afd3.93445681@zipcon.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030224021457.025c9960@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224174131.02748070@mail.zipcon.net> At 02:37 PM 2/24/03 -0500, you wrote: >What was the name of the German company? I don't remember :( I wish I still had my Rainbow hardware guide, they were listed in there :( From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Feb 24 20:05:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: TU58 Emulation (was: M9312 Bootstrap Questions) References: <5429364744.20030223200437@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <017801c2dc72$0446da90$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 9:04 PM Subject: TU58 Emulation (was: M9312 Bootstrap Questions) > Frank Arnold wrote: > > I hope you can boot anything else, do you have a DL11-W? You could use > > this with a PeeCee emulated TU58 for diagnostics ect. > > Two questions. > > First, has anyone here emulated a TU58 successfully in software? I searched > through the archives and found lots of posts that say "you could" and none > that say "I did". If it's doable, what software should I use? I found this: You might want to take a look at http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm. BTW, take a look at http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm too. > Jeffrey Sharp Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Feb 24 20:06:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Stratus and 220V References: <20030224233913.SPSZ19204.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> <3E5AB601.A03CA6A3@cox.net> Message-ID: <017901c2dc72$3aed5510$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim" To: Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:17 PM Subject: Re: Stratus and 220V > This only applies to 220 2 phase type power, not 208 3 phase, which is > different. Most of those systems have no 110 in them at all. Errr.... 220V comes in single phase and three phase flavors. While I believe 2 phase power does exist, it's somewhat esoteric-- I've never even *heard* of one, let along seen one. 208V 3 phase is 110 between any one phase and the neutral. It is *not* 220V between any two hot wires, but if the PS is merely dividing the two hot legs into two seperate 110V circuits it should work fine. Note that three-phase power is not very common in residential installations. > > Jim Bob From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 24 20:13:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Info wanted: IBM vacuum tube digital computer demonstrator In-Reply-To: <3E593A1B.8FD71824@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030224211555.42e794c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've posted some pictures of the IBM digital demo unit at . Any info on using it would be appreciated. Also posted is the schematic of the TH-1, "one shot" using the 2D21 tube (SCR with a pilot light!). Joe From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Feb 24 20:15:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: <200302250122.h1P1Mko19919@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Doc wrote: > > On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > By a remote disk, I assume you're talking about a 3.5" SCSI disk sitting in > > > a remote VMS or *BSD box? In such a configuration you still should (if > > > possible) have a local swap disk. > > > > I know that's the standard wisdom, but the read/write speeds of all > > the MFM disks I've tried on my RQDX3s are significantly slower than > > network reads and writes. > > That's interesting. I'd really not taken the slowness of the MFM disks into > account. It also makes a certain sense. Besides come to think of it, that > "standard wisdom" is generally applied to VAXstation 3100 or 4000 class > systems. Though I've been known to recommend booting a VAX 6000 class > system off of a VAXstation 4000/vlc. Now that I agree with - my 3100s do a *lot* better with local swap, and a little better with a local system disk. > You're making me wish I could give this a try under VMS. I wonder where on > earth I've got my pair of RD54's stashed. I know where everything else is > that would be required to temporarily switch a PDP-11 over to a MicroVAX II. > It would make for some interesting testing, and I've been wanting to us a > MicroVAX II to practice my system tuning skills (improvements are more > noticable on a MVII). I'd be quite interested to know what you find. I'm not willing to discount inefficient drivers on the NetBSD side, but just the published transfer rates for the MFM disks, let alone seek times, suggest that on a decently configured network, local storage will be slower than NFS. Doc From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 24 20:18:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: M9312 Bootstrap Questions In-Reply-To: <3E5A14A4.8080507@Vishay.com> References: <8317262572.20030223023615@subatomix.com> <3E5A14A4.8080507@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <255339798.20030224201518@subatomix.com> On Monday, February 24, 2003, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > are you sure the 11/34 manual is talking about the M9312? - I seem to > remember that my copy describes the M9301, of which, IIRC, there are -YA, > -YB, and -YF versions. Uh, oops... You are exactly right. The 11/34 manual is indeed talking about the M9301 and not the M9312. I have a M9312. Problem #1 solved. Mand that lysdexia!!! The only thing now is to figure out why the switches are set as they are. My unit's switches point somewhere in the console emulator ROM, but not at one of the two valid entry points specified in the M9312 manual. Either: A) That's the original ROM and wherever the switches point happens to work as an entry point. The previous owner may have set them this way, possibly to bypass some of the diagnostic tests. B) That's not the original ROM and the switch settings are correct for whatever ROM is now in there. The previous owner may have replaced the ROM. C) The switch settings are wrong. Could it hurt to simply plug the board back in and try it out, assuming the rest of the machine is OK? -- Jeffrey Sharp From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Feb 24 20:30:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Stratus and 220V In-Reply-To: <017901c2dc72$3aed5510$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: > Errr.... 220V comes in single phase and three phase flavors. While I > believe 2 phase power does exist, it's somewhat esoteric-- I've never even > *heard* of one, let along seen one. There once was two phase - four wires with the phases 90 degrees apart - but it is basically "gone"* now. A few big old Navy radio transmitters from the 1920s used in for the motor-generators. *It may still be held on in old factories. Remember, New York City *just* discontinued DC power distribution! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Mon Feb 24 20:32:00 2003 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPRS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11/04 on Ebay - whats wrong with it? Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080B2A@email1.parl.net> Hi, A PDP-11/04 on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3403225 748&rd=1 I have to start by stating I am in Australia. Our dollar might have crept back up to a smidgen over 60 cents US today, but the opening bid on the PDP will still be considerable, then add international shipping and ooooooh ouch. But despite all that I am still toying with the idea of bidding on the item. I do need a little assistance before making a definitive decision. For those unaware the item was listed before recently but was passed in unbid. I did not get interested last time since the description did not list a CPU card, and the seller did not reply to an enquiry regarding a CPU card. I notice that this time there is a CPU card listed (M7263). My quandary is over the seller's comment that the "Unit powers up and reads 0002777" although the pictures have it reading 000277. My worry is that the unit is severely broken. Can any take a stab at guessing what might be wrong, is it possibly just the lack of a boot device (floppy of hard disk)? David Kane From Mzthompson at aol.com Mon Feb 24 20:41:00 2003 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Fwd: Free to good home VRT-19 Message-ID: <14d.1c3c2f1c.2b8c30ef@aol.com> Posted to comp.sys.dec, please respond directly to jfedorko@rangersys.com > Subject: Free to good home VRT-19 > From: "Joel" > Date: Sun, Feb 23, 2003 17:03 EST > Message-id: <1Yacnbd0keSd28SjXTWckQ@giganews.com> > > Free to good home, a DEC VRT19 worked fine the last time I powered it up (2 > years ago). I need the space. > Available for pickup between Baltimore and DC. > > Drop me a note a jfedorko@rangersys.com if you are interested. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Feb 24 20:51:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Stratus and 220V References: Message-ID: <01f401c2dc78$725c8f10$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:26 PM Subject: Re: Stratus and 220V > > Errr.... 220V comes in single phase and three phase flavors. While I > > believe 2 phase power does exist, it's somewhat esoteric-- I've never even > > *heard* of one, let along seen one. > > There once was two phase - four wires with the phases 90 degrees apart - > but it is basically "gone"* now. A few big old Navy radio transmitters > from the 1920s used in for the motor-generators. And a center-tapped grounded conductor for two phase five wire is what I read about in skool. At least now I know what it was used for! > > *It may still be held on in old factories. Remember, New York City *just* > discontinued DC power distribution! The last time I installed a service (1200A 208V 3P w/ 400KW backup genset IIRC-- very interesting!) in Dayton, Ohio the power company service handbook made the assertion that they were not taking any new Edison power customers but made no mention of how many, if any, were still on the books. > > William Donzelli Bob From univac2 at earthlink.net Mon Feb 24 21:01:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: RX01 Cosmetic Aid Needed Message-ID: It's just a little thing, but it's going to bother me when I mount my RX01 in my nice white rack... Does anyone have a spare white front panel for an RX01 floppy unit? Mine came without one, I believe because the previous owner (the US Air Force, I believe) removed it so that the door on the front of the H960 rack it was mounted in would be able to close. -- Owen Robertson From jss at subatomix.com Mon Feb 24 21:15:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <838774206.20030224211232@subatomix.com> On Monday, February 24, 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > I think this is larger than you think. I doubt it would fir into a single > or 1 1/2 car garage. ... This is very interesting, but a real gamble. It > is hard to see what is there, and what is not. Indeed. Here is what the seller emailed to me: "You wouldn't be able to see anything but the flooring for the computer which is stacked on the tail end of the trailer. Everything else is so tall you would not be able to tell anything about it. If your wondering what the environment is like that it has been kept in, I can tell you that. It HAS NOT been kept in a temperature controlled area, it is just like the description said, a semi-trailer. If I can answer any questions do not hesitate to email, but I am looking for serious bidders." It sounds like a recon mission wouldn't tell us much. I don't have $1200 to spend on getting a peek at it. With the crazy money he wants and all of the extra stipulations, I'll bet this gets scrapped. At least there were pictures available for download. ;-( So close, yet so far away... -- Jeffrey Sharp From sieler at allegro.com Mon Feb 24 21:56:35 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: IBM-PC Technical Reference Manuals (was: "Real Computers") In-Reply-To: <20030223165145.GK12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <002f01c2db1d$94cea3a0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <3E5A14D2.5704.19300265@localhost> Re: > There was a technical reference manual for PC-DOS as well as the > technical reference manual for the hardware... I got both of them when > IBM was still selling the original PeeCees, but they were, for some > odd reason, difficult to obtain even back then (e.g., various people > at IBM denied that they existed... and if you really wanted to have I had no problem buying them. IIRC, I got them from the same place I got my PC: the IBM sales office a block away from where the first Fry's would eventually open. We financed our PC with IBM finance, and bought the absolute minimum hardware/software from IBM, and then bought floppy drives and more memory from some guy selling out of his living room in San Jose :) -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From vance at neurotica.com Mon Feb 24 21:57:48 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: DEC disk drive power consumption (was Re: QBUS SCSI card...) In-Reply-To: <200302242152.h1OLqVM06949@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > I do know that my MVIII uses a hack of a lot less power booting > > > off a remote disk than it did spinning up 3 MFM drives. I can only > > > assume that the RAxx use even more juice. > > > > Dunno about anything as new as an RA9x, but the RA81 draws 30A surge > > current (which is why they have that daisy-chain power sequencer > > port), and 8A steady-state. That's a big honkin' motor in there, plus > > several square feet of controllers. > > I'd recommend RA7x instead. The RA9x drives are 8", while the RA7x > drives are 5.25". I know for a fact that there is a *large* difference in the power consumption. Peace... Sridhar From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 24 21:59:18 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: <200302242143.h1OLhCo06419@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224222929.05b963a0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Zane, The ones I was remembering were some Jonathan Enghdahl had gotten. Didn't remember hearing if they were tape only, but it wouldn't surprise me. One crazy thing on one of them though. He bid and won one from a guy that ended up living out of the trunk of his car and wasn't getting the part shipped. The part was still where he used to live, and somehow he didn't have access to get back at it, and therefore wasn't getting it shipped. When I heard from the guy about something else, I mentioned it to him. He must have thought "wow, how did I know about that?" That seems to have somehow gotten him to get motivated and last I heard, I believe Jonathan did eventually receive it. Now whether it actually worked or not, I don't know. With eBay, YMMV. Best Regards At 01:43 PM 2/24/03 -0800, you wrote: > > The truth is, if you are willing to wait, I've even seen some go as low as > > the $40+ > > to $60+ range? With some, condition might be poor, or they may not be > > operational > > and be being sold as is, but they might also be just fine. That's the eBay > > gamble. I > > do remember the MTI QTS-25 I had sold on eBay a couple of years ago to > > Zane went for only $50 > >The thing to remember is that the controllers in that price range are tape >only. For example, that MTI QTS-25 was tape only as I recall (or to put it >another way, I don't recall buying any SCSI controllers on eBay that weren't >tape only :^) > >The jump in value from Tape only to disk only is pretty huge, then there is >a lesser jump in value from Disk only to Disk/Tape. > > Zane From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Feb 24 22:00:16 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1046144494.2229.5.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Mon, 2003-02-24 at 12:16, Fred Flintstone wrote: > I have a PDP-11/10 (a.k.a PDP-11/05) which I am attempting to bring back to > life. It was placed in storage many years back, and appears to be in good > condition. I am at the point where I can enter programs from the front panel > and execute them (core memory and processor appear to work). I have a LA36 > hooked up as the console to the SLU. I think the TS03 tape drive may work, > and I am in the process of cleaning a RK05 disk drive and disk pack. > Congradulations! I've an 11/10 that I "resurected" from parts. I'd first try a few simple test programs. An obvious one is to write a stream of characters to a terminal (see my website http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/11-10 for a simple to key in program for that). > My question is, what am I looking for in order to load RT-11? Is RT-11 > easier to install via tape, or am I looking for a bootable disk pack? > Having just done this on an 11/45, it is *much* easier to have it on a pack already. > At this point, I am not looking for specifics, I need to know what is the > general means to bootstrap RT-11 onto a PDP-11. This exercise is a > precursor to getting a PDP-11/20 up and running. > > I would also like to know if one of the PDP-11 emulators would assist me to > learn what I need to do in terms of bootstrapping a system. I have used a > PDP-11 10+ years ago, but never needed to bootstrap a system. > How much memory do you have on it? I had plenty on my 11/45 (128KW) and used vtserver. This is also useful for a test as you will see if writes to the drive work (plus the fact that loading anything substantial will take a while, you'll be seeing how long your '11 will stay up running *real* code). > Thanks for any assistance. > > --barryM -- TTFN - Guy From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 24 22:02:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Feb 24, 2003 08:11:18 PM Message-ID: <200302250358.h1P3wRF25381@shell1.aracnet.com> > > You're making me wish I could give this a try under VMS. I wonder where on > > earth I've got my pair of RD54's stashed. I know where everything else is > > that would be required to temporarily switch a PDP-11 over to a MicroVAX II. > > It would make for some interesting testing, and I've been wanting to us a > > MicroVAX II to practice my system tuning skills (improvements are more > > noticable on a MVII). > > I'd be quite interested to know what you find. I'm not willing to > discount inefficient drivers on the NetBSD side, but just the published > transfer rates for the MFM disks, let alone seek times, suggest that on > a decently configured network, local storage will be slower than NFS. Unfortunatly this is something that will have to wait for me to actually find the time to do it :^( I'm really curious as to how much of a difference in performance it would be possible to obtain with VMS. With VMS you're dealing with ODS2, DECnet and the Clustering software, on Unix you've got ffs (or whatever the filesystem BSD is using), TCP/IP and NFS. On the downside, Unix tends to beat VMS at disk IO, still we're talking more the difference between a RQDX3/RD54 combo vs. a nice fast more modern server with SCSI (or IDE) disks. Zane From kenziem at sympatico.ca Mon Feb 24 22:08:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:17 2005 Subject: Stratus and 220V In-Reply-To: <20030224233913.SPSZ19204.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> References: <20030224233913.SPSZ19204.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <20030225040514.LWPO7180.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Monday 24 February 2003 18:36, Mike wrote: > My name is at the top of the list for a Stratus high availability server > that is going out of service. > > Is there anyone here interested in these machines? > > This has dual G86010 cpu's, expansion cabinet. It was recently in use as a > test switch for an ATM network. the model nubers are E21245 and the expansion K351-41. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Feb 24 22:18:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: <200302250358.h1P3wRF25381@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Unfortunatly this is something that will have to wait for me to actually > find the time to do it :^( I'm really curious as to how much of a > difference in performance it would be possible to obtain with VMS. With VMS > you're dealing with ODS2, DECnet and the Clustering software, on Unix you've > got ffs (or whatever the filesystem BSD is using), TCP/IP and NFS. On the > downside, Unix tends to beat VMS at disk IO, still we're talking more the > difference between a RQDX3/RD54 combo vs. a nice fast more modern server > with SCSI (or IDE) disks. I'd say it's more the difference between the throughput of the DEQNA and the throughput of the RQDX3/RD54 than it is between the difference between MFM & modern SCSI. My fileserver will spew data a good bit faster than the DEQNA can process it. The Qbus ethernet is the bottleneck. No hurry, anyhow. It's mostly academic to me - the whine of the MFM drives makes SWMBO nuts. The choice to go network-based storage had the unexpected speed boost, but peace in the castle was/is the overriding factor.... Doc From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Feb 24 22:25:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: was Re: Identifying a Motolora chip -now OT Elk on runway Message-ID: In a message dated 2/24/03 11:21:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, mike@ambientdesign.com writes: > It's also interesting to hear that cows on the runway isn't only a New > Zealand phenomenon... > > We lost a Lear Jet here at the Warrenton, Oregon Airport when it hit a 1500 pound Roosevelt Elk halfway down the runway on an early morning takeoff last October. Totally trashed the Lear Jet, the Elk was in 500 pieces but the pilot and passengers were OK and able to get out of the plane before it totally burned. We had a herd of about 50 Elk living on the airport flats. Now they have an Elk proof fence that I swear will cause hard drives to fail when you drive across the grat-t-t-t-ting to get to our local UPS drop off center. The Lear Jet was over 10 years old so to get this on topic does anyone know if the older Lear Jets used computers and what kind? Paxton Astoria, OR From chriss at kingston.net Mon Feb 24 22:29:00 2003 From: chriss at kingston.net (Chris Saunders) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: More HX-20 questions Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030224231705.0230fec0@localhost> Hello, I picked up an HX-20 years ago, and have finally some time to play with it. I have a couple questions that perhaps one of you others out there with an HX-20 could answer. HX-20 Background: Cream Color, Cassette Module, NO 16K expansion, HP HEDS-3000 barcode reader, barcode ROM installed, labeled in Pen BARCODE Z. Everything seems to work fine. I am trying to get the BARCODE ROM loaded. I have read all the EPSON docs on their support site. Have not been able to locate a BASIC tutorial online though. Questions: 1) Should the installed ROM (NOT a module but inside the HX-20) show up automagically in the menu? 2) If not, how to I go about loading it into memory? 3) Thoughts on the easiest way to interface the HX-20 to a Win box or anyone tried a terminal program and a Palm? TIA ChriS From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Feb 24 22:44:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030224230413.01aed498@slave> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > Maybe that's why it won't blinken properly? > > I suppose I'll just have to purchase classic-minicomputers.com & > classic-mainframes.com as well; trouble is, I'll need to collect a load > more of them then - and my shed isn't *that* big - at least, not with all > the racing car gear in there as well :) Get another shed; then we'll call you "Adrian `Two Sheds' Vickers." -brian. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 24 22:51:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: Need Read-It! v1.02 and/or v1.1 OCR software/manual by Olduvai (forMac) In-Reply-To: <3E5A63F0.3291DE87@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Just curious, what model PDP-8 do you have? I picked up some flip-chip > modules (M series) and if you need any of that type, what are the card > numbers you need? It looks like most of these were used on the PDP-8I/L. Hi Marvin. I am looking for replacement flip-chip modules for a "straight"-8. I don't need any M-series modules, but thanks for asking! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 24 22:53:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay In-Reply-To: <00f201c2dc35$dc4ff440$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Jay West wrote: > > Per the auction.... > > Please, I know how to scrap this out myself, so Scrappers need not bid > > nor Museums concerning donations. > > > > So I guess the guy doesn't want it to go to a museum, but it sure would > > be a lot for a simgle collectot to handle. > > Noooooooo he didn't say he didn't want it to go to a museum, he said he > didn't want it going "as a donation". Reading between the lines - I'm > guessing it's fine with him if it goes to a museum, but he's not going to > DONATE it. He wants CASH. I kind of view this as the same as someone who finds a complete dinosaur skeleton and decides to auction it off to the highest bidder. Sure, it's that person's right to do whatever they want with it, but there is a higher cause that they are just not keen to. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Mon Feb 24 22:55:01 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 References: <20030224212633.56132.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <024101c2dc89$a55708d0$8a00a8c0@arctura> I have used VTserver with the included standalone "copy" program to copy an RT-11 disk image onto a cold machine. You can use simh or E11 to prepare the image and check it out. I have also loaded XXDP into a disk the same way. I think for XXDP, I used E11 to prepare a floppy image, then VTserver and "copy" to put it onto an 8" floppy. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:26 PM Subject: Re: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 > --- Fred Flintstone wrote: > > I have a PDP-11/10 (a.k.a PDP-11/05) which I am attempting to bring back > > to life.... > > My question is, what am I looking for in order to load RT-11? Is RT-11 > > easier to install via tape, or am I looking for a bootable disk pack? > > I have personally only seen RT-11 distributed on disk - RX01 and RK05 > for older versions (v4 and older); RX02, RX50 and RL02 for newer > versions (v5.x) > > > At this point, I am not looking for specifics, I need to know what is the > > general means to bootstrap RT-11 onto a PDP-11. This exercise is a > > precursor to getting a PDP-11/20 up and running. > > Typically, you need the device-specific bootstrap for your bootable > medium (tape, disk, or whatever)... In the case of an RX01, it's > a few dozen instructions. In the case of the RK05, it's very few. > > > I would also like to know if one of the PDP-11 emulators would assist me > > to learn what I need to do in terms of bootstrapping a system. > > Yes. E-11 or SIMH would help you practice what's required. For the > full experience, you'd need a container file with the desired files > in the intended format. the RT-11 distros that are out there for SIMH > are disk image files - 1.6MB (RK05) in the case of v4, and 10MB (RL02) > in the case of v5.3. Not sure what you'd do about a tape for your > TS03. > > What disk devices do you have for your 11/10? Just the RK05? One > drive or multiple? > > -ethan From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Feb 24 22:59:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: DEQNA In-Reply-To: References: <200302250358.h1P3wRF25381@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224235310.00a5a760@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > My fileserver will spew data a good bit > faster than the DEQNA can process it. You might be able to open that bottleneck up with a DELQA-M M7516-YM, especially if you can get it running in Turbo Mode. At 10:14 PM 2/24/03 -0600, you wrote: >On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > Unfortunatly this is something that will have to wait for me to actually > > find the time to do it :^( I'm really curious as to how much of a > > difference in performance it would be possible to obtain with > VMS. With VMS > > you're dealing with ODS2, DECnet and the Clustering software, on Unix > you've > > got ffs (or whatever the filesystem BSD is using), TCP/IP and NFS. On the > > downside, Unix tends to beat VMS at disk IO, still we're talking more the > > difference between a RQDX3/RD54 combo vs. a nice fast more modern server > > with SCSI (or IDE) disks. > > I'd say it's more the difference between the throughput of the DEQNA >and the throughput of the RQDX3/RD54 than it is between the difference >between MFM & modern SCSI. My fileserver will spew data a good bit >faster than the DEQNA can process it. The Qbus ethernet is the >bottleneck. > No hurry, anyhow. It's mostly academic to me - the whine of the MFM >drives makes SWMBO nuts. The choice to go network-based storage had the >unexpected speed boost, but peace in the castle was/is the overriding >factor.... > > Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Feb 24 23:13:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: DEQNA In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224235310.00a5a760@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Mail List wrote: > > My fileserver will spew data a good bit > > faster than the DEQNA can process it. > > You might be able to open that bottleneck up with a DELQA-M > M7516-YM, especially if you can get it running in Turbo Mode. Have one. Haven't gotten around to installing it. I've been busy inventorying and getting ready to sell a truckload of DEC7000 hardware and some AlphaServers, and that's eating a lot of my hobby time. Raw performance isn't really the issue with any of my Qbus gear. My MV3100-80 will run rings around the MVIII, at anything I want it to do. It's just not as much fun. Doc From fernande at internet1.net Mon Feb 24 23:15:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay In-Reply-To: <00f201c2dc35$dc4ff440$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3E5A67FF.10605@internet1.net> <00f201c2dc35$dc4ff440$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E5AFAFA.6060904@internet1.net> Jay West wrote: > Noooooooo he didn't say he didn't want it to go to a museum, he said he > didn't want it going "as a donation". Reading between the lines - I'm > guessing it's fine with him if it goes to a museum, but he's not going to > DONATE it. He wants CASH. > > Jay West > Yeah, I realized that after I sent it. It was time for me to go to work, so I couldn't retract it :-) Originally, I thought he meant that he didn't want it to be a static display in a musuem where patrons were charged a "donation". Your version makes more sence :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 24 23:28:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Feb 24, 2003 10:14:43 PM Message-ID: <200302250525.h1P5P3h28268@shell1.aracnet.com> > I'd say it's more the difference between the throughput of the DEQNA > and the throughput of the RQDX3/RD54 than it is between the difference > between MFM & modern SCSI. My fileserver will spew data a good bit > faster than the DEQNA can process it. The Qbus ethernet is the > bottleneck. I'm pretty sure you're right about the DEQNA being the bottleneck. Have you clocked the throughput on the DEQNA? I'm guessing it's about 1Mbyte/Sec max (in reality I'd guess it's FAR lower). IIRC, the Q-Bus can only handle 3Mbyte/Sec. I think all the memory ops go over the ribbon cables (isn't the q-bus limited to powering the RAM, it's been a 2-3 years since I looked at a Q-Bus VAX and my memory stinks at times) so you should have a mostly free pipe between the DEQNA and the CPU. It would be interesting to have a Q-Bus FDDI adapter (DEFQA) and see how much more performance you could get using it, since it will saturate the Q-Bus. I think I'll have to look into seeing what it would take to set up such a test. > No hurry, anyhow. It's mostly academic to me - the whine of the MFM > drives makes SWMBO nuts. The choice to go network-based storage had the > unexpected speed boost, but peace in the castle was/is the overriding > factor.... My wife doesn't know how lucky she is that I had my PDP-11/73 in the BA123 in basically it's current condition when we got married. She never had to experience it without all the panels and MFM or ESDI disks :^) Zane From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 24 23:31:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: The Ugly American (was Re: G.W.Bush a liar?) In-Reply-To: <20030223184700.13466.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Blah blah. More inanity from Al. No response to my last message in which I asked for replies to specific questions and issues that I raised. Not a peep. This is exactly the tactic employed by someone who has no basis of fact or faith from which they are attempting to argue. If you so believed what you spew, you would respond, but you don't. You are a marionette; your strings are controlled by someone else's ideology that you have accepted without question. You have either the audacity or the stupidity (I have not yet figured it out) to rant and rave about international law being broken or ignored, yet you either fail to acknowledge or choose to ignore (I haven't figured out which yet) the sheer hypocrisy and pugnacity of the US government's flaunting of international law in the areas of national sovereignty, human rights, weapons development, the environment, ad nauseum. Because of our administration, we are more hated and despised by most nations (i.e. THE PEOPLE) around the world than at any time in our existence. When you've managed to make traditional allies such as Germany and France openly defy your intent in the United Nations, then you should know that you have your head firmly planted up your ass. We have ideologues and demogogues advising the president who are pursuing their own selfish agendas. History (the volumes not written by this administration) will prove that everything this current administration did was suspect at best, and totally deceitful at worst. The terrorists won because our administration stupidly and egregiously played right into their hands. This country will suffer a peril that I'm afraid it will never recover from, but folks who are walking around with ideas in their head similar to yours are completely ignorant of it. This country is condemned to destroy itself from within, and you are quite happy with that. In fact, you are helping to bring it about. As far as this country being founded upon religious principles, you even have that wrong. This country was founded on the basis that every man is a sovereign being, with rights and liberties that were God-given. Religious zealots take this literally and think that it means the "Judeo-Christian God", but it does not. It's an abstract used to portray, in the strongest possible colloquial language, that we are inherently Free. We do not have to pray to YOUR "God", and we don't have to believe in YOUR "God", to be free. We just are. You don't get it, and as an American who does, I find your way of thinking despicable. If you had the intention of responding to my message, really, don't bother. I really don't want to hear you say, "If you'd read what I said..." That's old, and it didn't make any sense the first time, let alone the 10th time, when you continue to ignore what I write and duck the issues that I bring to you. Your arguments are vacuous and laughable, your logic is peurile. I'm writing another letter to my Senators and Congresswoman tomorrow to let them know in no uncertain terms that I am abhorred by the recent behavior of our government and to demand that they introduce legislation to put an end to the madness being practiced by the Bush adminstration. I urge all of you to do the same, even those who are not US Citizens. If everyone in the world who gives a shit writes to our government, the clamor will be too much to ignore. This is the only chance we have to avoid a world of insanity that is being brought down upon us by seriosuly deluded people. Speaking up CAN make a difference as the recent worldwide protests have shown. Don't wait until you have to say, "I wish I would have said something." Use the time NOW to do your part as a human being, and LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Feb 24 23:37:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: Univac III on eBay Message-ID: <12d.23c530a8.2b8c5a52@aol.com> > but I am looking for serious bidders." > He wants real money. I think it will not bring his reserve price which I bet is at least $5000, probably more. I do not expect it to sell. It would be interesting to see what his reserve actually is. I base my reserve price estimate on what he wants just to handle the machine for shipping. This thing is not going to get scrapped, he has had it for decades. He will sit on it longer if he doesn't get what he wants. Stored in a semitrailer is good. It looks dry, just dusty. And some looks like it was stored with stretch wrap. It should be in good physical condition. Note that the seller's feedback is (1) which means he is subject to fits of unrealistic expectations. Paxton Astoria, OR From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Feb 24 23:54:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: On topic: Invention & Technology Message-ID: <3E5B0435.1030400@eoni.com> In the newest issue of American Heritage of Invention & Technology magazine (Spring, 2003.) there is an article on the Houston Spaceflight Center. In it it details the history of the MCC from its inception to February 1, 2003. Included in this history are details of the systems used to control the United States manned spaceflight program. (Originally (5) IBM 7094s). All in all a most interesting article. Pick up a copy at your local large chain bookstore. Or subscribe! Jim -- If there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the person. If there is beauty in the person, there will be harmony in the house. If there is harmony in the house, there will be order in the nation. If there is order in the nation, there will be peace in the world. ~ Chinese Proverb ~ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 24 23:56:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: DEC disk drive power consumption (was Re: QBUS SCSI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030225055124.26910.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > I don't think you can put a KDA50 in a BA23, isn't the reason that > > "Corporate Cabinets" have dual BA23's in the rack so that you've got > > enough power for everything? > > Correct, you'll fry the BA23's power supply. The KDA50's are > power-hungry beasts, which indeed was the reason for the weird > MV2-style dual-ba23-bolted-together racks. One for the system > itself, one for the KDA50. That's how one of my RA81s showed up - 42" rack, two BA23s, drive and lots of cables. Makes sense that it needs two power supplies to keep it all happy. Thanks for the reminder. -ethan From anheier at owt.com Tue Feb 25 00:18:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: Book available Message-ID: I am cleaning out some more stuff and have the following books available: Learning IBM Basic, David Lien, 1984 An Introduction to the Basic Language, John Skelton 1971 Understanding Telephone Electronics, Radio Shack, John Fike, 1983 How to Program and Interface the 6800, Andrew Staugard, 1987 $5 each + shipping. Thanks Norm From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Feb 25 00:54:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: Fujitsu MB15140 chips for 2351 Eagle Availiable Message-ID: <1e0.2fba202.2b8c6c39@aol.com> In a message dated 2/24/03 3:36:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > 'TTL Bipolar 500-gate Master Slice LSI' gate array, set up as the > HDA sequencer for the 2351 Eagle drive. According to the manual for that > drive, this chip handles the sequnce control of the spidle motor and the > generation of machine status information. > Thanks for the help Tony. These chips might have had some value when I got them (early 1990s) but I bet they are scrap now. I wonder how many Eagles 2351 and Super Eagles 2361s that are left working. If anyone is maintaining Fujitsu 2351 Eagles and needs some, please contact me off list at Innfosale@aol.com. I am intending to dispose of these soon. Paxton Astoria, OR From melamy at earthlink.net Tue Feb 25 01:07:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: Have VAXStation II/GPX & Intel iPDS and need an Intel MDS 225/230 Message-ID: <24020355.82991@webbox.com> Hi all, I am trying to accelerate my plans to get my Intel MDS up and running... I have a VAXStation II/GPX with two monitors, mouse and keyboard. I think I have all the docs and disks for it also. It belonged to a friend who gave it to me because he was just going to throw it out. It was working for him, but I don't know the first thing about getting it running or do I really want to take on another project. What I am looking for is to use it in trade for an Intel MDS 225/230 development system. I don't need software or manuals for the MDS (I have all that). I don't even need any of the ICE modules. I also have an Intel iPDS with software that I would consider in trade also. Any one interested? Best regards, Steve Thatcher Seattle area, Washington state From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Feb 25 01:14:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:20 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: <200302250525.h1P5P3h28268@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > I'd say it's more the difference between the throughput of the DEQNA > > and the throughput of the RQDX3/RD54 than it is between the difference > > between MFM & modern SCSI. My fileserver will spew data a good bit > > faster than the DEQNA can process it. The Qbus ethernet is the > > bottleneck. > > I'm pretty sure you're right about the DEQNA being the bottleneck. > Have you clocked the throughput on the DEQNA? I'm guessing it's about > 1Mbyte/Sec max (in reality I'd guess it's FAR lower). Given that it's 10Mb/s ethernet, seeing something like 1MB/s would definitely be an upper limit. I do know that, at least with NetBSD/vax, the port maintainer worked hard to get the DEQNA and DELQA (running in DEQNA mode) to operate as efficiently as he could. It's been a while since I got to play with my Qbus systems, so I don't recall the actual throughput being seen. From a list mail of his: -> On Fri, 10 May 2002, Anders Magnusson wrote: -> -> > You can look at the original DEC driver that were in NetBSD, it -> > have some of the compensation code for bad DEQNA's. Note that the -> > DEC driver is quite slow; it could almost reach 200k/s (in both -> > directions). The new one I wrote peeks about 500k/s. I was seeing something close to 500KB/s on my systems, too. > IIRC, the Q-Bus can only handle 3Mbyte/Sec. I think all the memory > ops go over the ribbon cables (isn't the q-bus limited to powering the > RAM, it's been a 2-3 years since I looked at a Q-Bus VAX and my memory > stinks at times) so you should have a mostly free pipe between the > DEQNA and the CPU. Another thing to keep in mind, IIRC, is the position of the modules along the Qbus chain. > It would be interesting to have a Q-Bus FDDI adapter (DEFQA) and see > how much more performance you could get using it, since it will > saturate the Q-Bus. I think I'll have to look into seeing what it > would take to set up such a test. Ouch. I bet that'd be pretty painful for something like a MicroVAX-II class machine; still, I'd love to see it done! -brian. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Feb 25 01:18:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) References: <003901c2dbda$7c62d300$0100000a@milkyway> <20030224195221.GP12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001b01c2dc9d$cdd8aa20$0100000a@milkyway> R. D. Davis wrote: >> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >> And most Linux users think Linux is better that Windoze - and with >> good > And most FreeBSD users know that FreeBSD is better than Linux. ;-) No comment - I'll try FreeBSD when I've got a spare few hours to download the ISO image. I've already got a machine that can run it - an ARM610 based Acorn Risc PC - it's just a shame I don't have an Ethernet Podule for it. >> reason. Is it any wonder most servers on the internet run the Apache >> HTTP Server under Linux (or other UNIX derivatives)? Linux is >> remarkably stable. Windows is the exact opposite. > (Red Hat) Linux crashes more easily than FreeBSD... or at least it did > a couple of years ago, but M$-Windoze is worse. Slackware is quite stable, probably because Slackware have a "We're not going to hack the Kernel, nor are we going to use any fancy packaging systems or init scripts". I had plenty of trouble with Mandrake Linux - I couldn't get Kylix running on it, it refused to detect my network card... After an hour of tweaking /etc/rc.d/rc.modules under Slackware with VIM, I had sound and networking running perfectly. I guess that's what I get for buying a "cheap Taiwanese piece of crap" (my friend's words, not mine). Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From zoki.news at linuxix.2y.net Tue Feb 25 01:37:00 2003 From: zoki.news at linuxix.2y.net (Zoki) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Le 22/02/2003 09:50, ??vance@neurotica.com?? a ?crit?: > On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > $150 is still cheap for a case. One of my PC Power and Cooling cases cost > $650. It's built like a tank. *** I beg to differ: Hundred-fifty-dollars for a case is tr?s expensive. SIX-HUNDRED-FIFTY-DOLLARS is mind-bogglingly ridiculous... Zoran. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Feb 25 03:39:00 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:25:25 GMT." <5.1.0.14.2.20030224220737.01af08a0@slave> Message-ID: <200302250935.JAA30992@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Adrian Vickers said: > > Uploaded tonight for your viewing pleasure, just over 60 pix of the > HP1000's that Tim found & saved a few weeks ago, now parked lovingly (erm) > in my shed... > > http://classic-micros.com/hp1000 Glad to see you got it all moved OK. I'll go take a look at the piccies. I'm still trying to find time to properly sort out the 11/73 I got from Tim - a new (old) dual processor, dual boot (MacOs/Linux) Mac is taking up my time atm :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Feb 25 04:25:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: PDP-11/04 on Ebay - whats wrong with it? References: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080B2A@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <3E5B43B5.5030606@Vishay.com> David, the 0002777 vs. 000277 question is easy: the display has only six digits, so the last digit is obviously a typo. My 11/34 has the same programmer's console front panel, so I can be sure about this one. The display may show random digits after power-on, but should respond to the CLR and digit keys in an obvious way. The pictures look like a machine in fairly good shape, but something may have been removed: there should be a terminator card in the last UNIBUS slot, or a cable to connect to the next backplane. I cannot see either of them in the pics (the slot is visible in one of the photos, but empty), so I assume there may have been another backplane in the box which was removed. Another indication for this is that there is no peripheral controller listed, other than the KY11-LB (front panel) and a DL11-W (console terminal). Not a major problem, but an indication that you'll need to do something more than just turn power on and use it. The seller offers to do tests on request, so you might ask him to deposit values in memory and then examine, using the octal keyboard on the front panel: this could verify some basic functionality and reduce your risk. E.g., deposit 122222 and 055555 in adjacent locations, then load the first address again and examine both words. Regards, Andreas Kane, David (DPRS) wrote: > Hi, > > > > A PDP-11/04 on ebay > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3403225 > 748&rd=1 > > > > I have to start by stating I am in Australia. Our dollar might have > crept back up to a smidgen over 60 cents US today, but the opening bid > on the PDP will still be considerable, then add international shipping > and ooooooh ouch. But despite all that I am still toying with the idea > of bidding on the item. I do need a little assistance before making a > definitive decision. For those unaware the item was listed before > recently but was passed in unbid. I did not get interested last time > since the description did not list a CPU card, and the seller did not > reply to an enquiry regarding a CPU card. I notice that this time there > is a CPU card listed (M7263). My quandary is over the seller's comment > that the "Unit powers up and reads 0002777" although the pictures have > it reading 000277. My worry is that the unit is severely broken. Can any > take a stab at guessing what might be wrong, is it possibly just the > lack of a boot device (floppy of hard disk)? > > > > David Kane -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From massimo.vettore at zf.com Tue Feb 25 06:00:01 2003 From: massimo.vettore at zf.com (Vettore Massimo MARPD EDP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Info wanted: IBM vacuum tube digital computer demonstrator Message-ID: <35F5E396DA78D4118C2D00508BEED22E017A1EDA@pd1016.zfm.zf-group.de> On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: >Yes, that's the item but I'm pretty certain that he's wrong about it being a > field engineer's test set. A couple of list members have tracked down several > of these but no docs yet. Hi The diagrams of the plugglable units should be available at: http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/ibmpu/ Max From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Feb 25 07:35:01 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Fujitsu MB15140 chips for 2351 Eagle Availiable In-Reply-To: <1e0.2fba202.2b8c6c39@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030225073242.019a7990@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hmm, is that chip used in the Fujitsu 2284 drive as well? If so, I may be interested. Also, does anyone have a manual or schematics for the 2284 drives? --tom At 01:50 AM 2/25/2003 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 2/24/03 3:36:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, >ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > > > > 'TTL Bipolar 500-gate Master Slice LSI' gate array, set up as the > > HDA sequencer for the 2351 Eagle drive. According to the manual for that > > drive, this chip handles the sequnce control of the spidle motor and the > > generation of machine status information. > > > > >Thanks for the help Tony. These chips might have had some value when I got >them (early 1990s) but I bet they are scrap now. I wonder how many Eagles >2351 and Super Eagles 2361s that are left working. > >If anyone is maintaining Fujitsu 2351 Eagles and needs some, please contact >me off list at Innfosale@aol.com. I am intending to dispose of these soon. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 25 09:17:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: OT? Saw an HP 9000 today In-Reply-To: <1e0.2fba202.2b8c6c39@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030225151316.8903.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Went to the local Uni Surplus today... all the good stuff was gone (HP LJ 4/L @ $20, 20" or 21" iMac-ish monitor $???...) including a 60" rack of HP gear - CPU, "storage tray", etc, marked "HP 9000" at the top. IIRC, the other numbers on the label were 800/140 if that means anything to the HP mavens here. Went for $150. -ethan From pzachary at sasquatch.com Tue Feb 25 09:29:00 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pavl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 References: Message-ID: <3E5B8B8A.E38BBA79@sasquatch.com> I would strongly recommend using TU58.exe on a host pc to emulate a serial tape drive on your second serial port (you DO have a second slu?) to boot RT11 off virtual tape so you can poke around and build a system from there. keying a bootstrap isn't bad since your memory is nvr (core) and RT leaves that space alone(usually) VTserver is really amazingly great, but you may not have enough ram and booting RT or XXDP from a slu will give you better diagnostics to assess your RK05,etc I've been trying to find a TS03 for some time to hook to my 11/20, sigh .... Pavl_ Fred Flintstone wrote: > > I have a PDP-11/10 (a.k.a PDP-11/05) which I am attempting to bring back to > life. It was placed in storage many years back, and appears to be in good > condition. I am at the point where I can enter programs from the front panel > and execute them (core memory and processor appear to work). I have a LA36 > hooked up as the console to the SLU. I think the TS03 tape drive may work, > and I am in the process of cleaning a RK05 disk drive and disk pack. > > My question is, what am I looking for in order to load RT-11? Is RT-11 > easier to install via tape, or am I looking for a bootable disk pack? > > At this point, I am not looking for specifics, I need to know what is the > general means to bootstrap RT-11 onto a PDP-11. This exercise is a > precursor to getting a PDP-11/20 up and running. > > I would also like to know if one of the PDP-11 emulators would assist me to > learn what I need to do in terms of bootstrapping a system. I have used a > PDP-11 10+ years ago, but never needed to bootstrap a system. > > Thanks for any assistance. > > --barryM From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Feb 25 09:42:00 2003 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <00ea01c2d699$cbd4b390$dd08dd40@oemcomputer> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030225092342.02f67b80@pc> With all this talk about the CBBS, I expected to hear some bragging from people who'd actually been on this BBS, back in the day. I remember logging-in in '78 or '79, via an ASR-33. - John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 25 10:17:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: <3E5B8B8A.E38BBA79@sasquatch.com> Message-ID: <20030225161412.73979.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- pavl wrote: > I would strongly recommend using TU58.exe on a host pc to emulate a > serial tape drive on your second serial port (you DO have a second slu?) On a machine that old? Unlikely. Machines of the era before the DZ-11, and especially machines that were not destined for timesharing, tended to have few serial ports, - a console and probably nothing else. It was a boon that a low-end Qbus machine commonly came with a DLV11J with a port for the console, a port for a TU58 and two more ports for DECwriters or machine-to-machine communication or whatever. It's easy enough to _add_ a second SLU card, (DL-11something), _if_ you have one lying around (which I expect he doesn't). > to boot RT11 off virtual tape so you can poke around and build a system > from there. As a place to put RT-11, a virtual TU58 isn't a bad idea. Hopefully wharever emulator you have can emulate both units - the TU58 is kinda small, even compared with 8" floppies. > VTserver is really amazingly great, but you may not have enough ram and > booting RT or XXDP from a slu will give you better diagnostics to assess > your RK05,etc How much RAM does VTserver require? Older versions of RT-11 (those contemporary with the 11/10) are usable at aroun 8KW, IIRC. Of course the full 28KW is nice, especially if you want to run large apps like ADVENT, but the CUSPS should all run with minimal RAM. -ethan From alhartman at yahoo.com Tue Feb 25 10:26:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #479 - 54 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030225154200.65543.3472.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030225162252.99390.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> > Blah blah. More inanity from Al. No response to > my last message in which I asked for replies to > specific questions and issues that I raised. I decided to stop feeding the troll... Regards, Al Hartman (Macintosh Emulation List Host) http://www.topica.com/lists/MacEmuList My Homepage http://www.geocities.com/alhartman Enlightenment means taking full responsibility for your life. - William Blake From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 25 11:22:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #479 - 54 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030225162252.99390.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > Blah blah. More inanity from Al. No response to > > my last message in which I asked for replies to > > specific questions and issues that I raised. > > > > I decided to stop feeding the troll... How convenient. I take this as an admission that you are unable to backup your assertions and have no real faith in your arguments. nazi hitler A truth that's told with bad intent, beats all the lies you can invent. - William Blake -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From marvin at rain.org Tue Feb 25 11:28:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #479 - 54 msgs References: Message-ID: <3E5BA6C3.9B512E4C@rain.org> More likely, this is NOT the venue for this type of discussion. Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > > > Blah blah. More inanity from Al. No response to > > > my last message in which I asked for replies to > > > specific questions and issues that I raised. > > > > > > > > I decided to stop feeding the troll... > > How convenient. I take this as an admission that you are unable to backup > your assertions and have no real faith in your arguments. > > nazi hitler > > A truth that's told with bad intent, beats all the lies you can invent. > - William Blake > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Feb 25 11:30:01 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030225092342.02f67b80@pc> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030225092342.02f67b80@pc> Message-ID: <20030225092250.T47754@agora.rdrop.com> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, John Foust wrote: > With all this talk about the CBBS, I expected to hear some > bragging from people who'd actually been on this BBS, back > in the day. I remember logging-in in '78 or '79, via an ASR-33. Been on it?!? Heck, it was a leading cause of why I started my CBBS system (CBBS/NW - ran for nearly 20 years). That is after I got my third (expensive for the day) >$100 phone bill due to all the calls to Chicago! I still have one of my early print outs from the original Chicago system! 1-312-545-8086... yes, I still remember the number... No, you probably should not call it... Ward is a great guy. We managed to get together a couple of times over the years. Never actually met Rany tho... Spoke to him on the phone a time or two. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Feb 25 11:35:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #479 - 54 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030225162252.99390.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030225154200.65543.3472.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030225122934.00a43040@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Al, > I decided to stop feeding the troll... Plus, this thread died out two days ago :) Best Regards At 08:22 AM 2/25/03 -0800, you wrote: > > Blah blah. More inanity from Al. No response to > > my last message in which I asked for replies to > > specific questions and issues that I raised. > > > >I decided to stop feeding the troll... > >Regards, >Al Hartman >(Macintosh Emulation List Host) >http://www.topica.com/lists/MacEmuList > >My Homepage >http://www.geocities.com/alhartman > >Enlightenment means taking full responsibility for >your life. > - William Blake From stefan at softhome.net Tue Feb 25 12:15:01 2003 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Felix CE 801 Calculator Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030225190158.00ad65c0@pop.softhome.net> Is anybody interested in buying a Felix CE 801 calculator ? I haven't tested it yet, charging some batteries, but when I have done that I will let you know. The date is probably 1975, and its made in Romania. Stefan. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 25 12:46:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: 3 BC26V-12 cables available In-Reply-To: <064a01c2dc53$4c412810$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <20030225184248.7719.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Stuart Johnson wrote: > Ethan, > > They are external. Sorry about not posting this detail earlier - to tell > the truth it did not occur to me that there were internal cables with > this part number. I don't know for a fact what the internal cable numbers are. They might be different for all I know. I just wanted to make sure. Thanks for the confirmation. I'm sure you will have plenty of takers. Thanks again, -ethan From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Feb 25 12:48:00 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Identifying a Motorola chip - MC14544?( OT)(actually grass ai rports) Message-ID: > Ethan wrote > >> Any help would be greatly appreciated; Particularly since the people > that > >> own the property have sold off the end of the strip to a local farmer > who > >> keeps cows there... And the other pilots are a bit too soft to leap the > >> fence and wander through a herd of cattle in the middle of the night > just > >> to turn on the lamps... > > > >I've been to a strip in NW Ohio, Fremont, that has a grass strip butting > >into a narrow asphalt strip in a Tee shape... the State airport guide > >warns that cows may be present on the grass runway and to perform a > >flyover before attempting a landing there. > > I live across the street for an inactive grass field, main problem for > pilots was deer > and dogs on the runway. We could never fly kites or launch Estes rockets > this close to an airport. > I once had my dinner interrupted by a pilot who crashed and walked up to > the house and asked to > use the telephone. His Globe Swift's alternator had failed. He couldn't > manually crank down the > landing gear and wanted to land on grass to save the plane. Now we have a > sixty acre park, we > still mow the runway, great for walking dogs and exercise, no cars > allowed. Occasional wood chucks, > deer, turkeys, and foxes however. > > Mike From alhartman at yahoo.com Tue Feb 25 12:48:50 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Care and Feeding of Trolls In-Reply-To: <20030225180001.66521.15655.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030225184415.49679.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> To Marvin and Mail List... You both make correct deductions... I like this list, and have a lot more fun conversing about Model I TRS-80's and Tandon Floppy Drives than wasting time trying to answer drivel, point by point. And I want to remain welcome on this interesting list. So, the troll can say or do whatever he likes. Being a troll, I can now ascribe any posts from under the bridge to it's proper value. There's been some news on the Amiga Emulation front. It seems that on http://www.umilator.com , Bernd Meyer may relent on his decision never to release Umilator (A 68k Amiga Emulator that runs on a Linux Kernal using some technology Bernd created for UAE-JIT, and some new stuff... Supposedly the fastest and most compatible emulator ever written.). He requires a certain number of people to commit to buying it, as there will be some legal battles with the people who claim to own Amithlon, which is a similar project that Bernd wrote code for. It seems that one person has decided he is the founder and creator of the software (but only contributed some minor code that by all reports is buggy and feature incomplete), and the distributor also claims to own the software as well. So far, nobody has been able to substantiate either paries claims, and Bernie will have to defend his right to market a product that shares little common code (some of the code is GPL, so Bernie is free and clear to use it. And unlike the other parties, Bernie has a legal licence from Amiga to include their IP in his product.), doesn't use the same name, and has significant rewritten code and new features. But intimidation and threats by these parties have kept Bernie from releasing it, as he doesn't have the financial depth to defend a suit in Germany from Australia. Nor, the desire to be put through all the stress of a suit. I guess, he's changed his mind about the stress. And decided that if the project could generate enough money, he'd defend his rights to market it on principle. So, if you want to see Bernie be rewarded for his excellent work, and people who want to keep his product from ever seeing the light of day get their due for their selfishness, go take a look and register in the poll for people willing to buy the product once available. Supposedly it's done and can be released. Bernie is just waiting for enough committed buyers so he can be sure he won't lose his shirt with the court costs when all the frivolous suits get filed. I posted that not only would I buy it, I'd also contribute to a legal defense fund. Sorry for the long message, hope this of more interest to the list than troll droppings.. Regards, Al Hartman (Macintosh Emulation List Host) http://www.topica.com/lists/MacEmuList My Homepage http://www.geocities.com/alhartman Enlightenment means taking full responsibility for your life. - William Blake From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Feb 25 12:50:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030225092342.02f67b80@pc> <20030225092250.T47754@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3E5BB93E.70807@jetnet.ab.ca> James Willing wrote: > 1-312-545-8086... yes, I still remember the number... No, you probably > should not call it... Yes the 8086 does date the number. In some ways the BBS system was better than todays internet was while conectivity was a problem if you used long distance calls; Most BBS's had lots of duplicated files and information where todays information is rarely mirrored. Ben. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Feb 25 12:56:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Care and Feeding of Trolls In-Reply-To: <20030225184415.49679.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > To Marvin and Mail List... > > You both make correct deductions... > > I like this list, and have a lot more fun conversing > about Model I TRS-80's and Tandon Floppy Drives than > wasting time trying to answer drivel, point by point. > > And I want to remain welcome on this interesting list. > > So, the troll can say or do whatever he likes. Being a > troll, I can now ascribe any posts from under the > bridge to it's proper value. GAAAAAAHHHHH!!!! SHUT UP ALREADY!!! -brian. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 25 13:01:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: References: <200302250525.h1P5P3h28268@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Brian Chase wrote: >On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: >-> On Fri, 10 May 2002, Anders Magnusson wrote: >-> >-> > You can look at the original DEC driver that were in NetBSD, it >-> > have some of the compensation code for bad DEQNA's. Note that the >-> > DEC driver is quite slow; it could almost reach 200k/s (in both >-> > directions). The new one I wrote peeks about 500k/s. > >I was seeing something close to 500KB/s on my systems, too. Truth be told, that's actually a bit better than I was hoping for. > >> IIRC, the Q-Bus can only handle 3Mbyte/Sec. I think all the memory >> ops go over the ribbon cables (isn't the q-bus limited to powering the >> RAM, it's been a 2-3 years since I looked at a Q-Bus VAX and my memory >> stinks at times) so you should have a mostly free pipe between the >> DEQNA and the CPU. > >Another thing to keep in mind, IIRC, is the position of the modules >along the Qbus chain. Good point, I believe you're right. >> It would be interesting to have a Q-Bus FDDI adapter (DEFQA) and see >> how much more performance you could get using it, since it will >> saturate the Q-Bus. I think I'll have to look into seeing what it >> would take to set up such a test. > >Ouch. I bet that'd be pretty painful for something like a MicroVAX-II >class machine; still, I'd love to see it done! Does the FDDI controller load down the host systems CPU, or does it handle the load onboard? It doesn't really matter, after a little research, I don't think I'll be testing this unless I happen upon a really cheap FDDI controller, it looks like they're more than I can afford to spend on a something that would be to simply satisfy my curiousity. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 25 13:09:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Care and Feeding of Trolls In-Reply-To: <20030225184415.49679.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > I like this list, and have a lot more fun conversing > about Model I TRS-80's and Tandon Floppy Drives than > wasting time trying to answer drivel, point by point. Jackass. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Tue Feb 25 13:14:01 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available Message-ID: I recently received email from FThomas470@aol.com informing me about the availability of some Monrobot XI computers. I would love to acquire one of these as the Monrobot XI was the first computer I ever programmed (in junior high school). Unfortunately, I am not sure I am going to be able to afford to ship one from Virginia to NH. In any case, I certainly can't take all 5-6 of them. If you are interested, please contact the email address above. I don't have any more information than what I'm posting here. If anyone decides to rent a truck to move them from Virginia toward New England I'd be interested contributing to the cost of the rental in exchange for hauling one for myself. Here is the text of the messages I've received about these machines: Litton Industries's Monrobot XI We are in Charlottesville, Virginia and we have 5 or 6 of them in storage. Until 7 or 8 years ago two of them were still being used and worked just fine. In their time, they were really great machines and I enjoyed programming and working with them. We also have 2 Friden Computypers which are earlier than the Monrobots. They had no electronics at all, but used rwo Friden late model mechanical calculators with solenoids on all the keys and electrical contacts on all the dials. They used a pile of stepping switches and a big plug-board for programming. It was a far-out design but worked very well. We will be moving shortly and are pressed for space. Please let me have your thoughts and/or suggestions. If you are interested, any reasonable offer would be considered. The Monrobot consists of the main computer unit which contains the electronics and magnetic drum, a little control unit with switches and control buttons and a place for the I/O typewriter. It's about the size of an office desk and weighs about 400 lbs. A side section connects to it and has a paper tape punch and a reader. From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Tue Feb 25 13:25:01 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030224220737.01af08a0@slave> Message-ID: <20030225042239.5995.qmail@web20809.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Adrian, Nice system! Pictures are great. I worked on the system generator (RT6GN) and system installer (SWTCH) when I was in the 1000 Lab. Do you know what version of RTE the F Series was running. There is probably a system pack sitting around you can just boot off of. WHen I left HP and did the Silicon Valley start a company thing we had several 7925 drives (like yours) hanging off an HP1000. Very sensitive to dust, dirt, etc. Looking at them cross-eyed would cause a head crash. If possible I'd move the drives, and especially those really nice looking disk packs, inside the house or cover them so they are not exposed to dirt, dust, moisture, etc. You might also post a note on COMP.SYS.HP.HPUX to see if you find any sources of manuals. Cheers, Lee Courtney HP Class of 79 --- Adrian Vickers wrote: > Evenin' all. > > Uploaded tonight for your viewing pleasure, just > over 60 pix of the > HP1000's that Tim found & saved a few weeks ago, now > parked lovingly (erm) > in my shed... > > http://classic-micros.com/hp1000 > > (Note to Hans: I *know* I've not put the picture > sizes in the img tags, I'm > just too darn lazy, OK?) > > :) > > Anyway, a brief tale of what happened this last > w/e... > > On Saturday, I picked up the 3 terminals & assorted > other tapes, plus the > disc controller from Tim, thus completing the > rescue. Back to the shed for > some well deserved tinkering time :) > > A long poke around in the manuals convinced me that: > > a) I have no docs for the F-series machines :( > They're all for the A700... > b) There was no system installation guide :( > > Thus thwarted, I decided buggrit, I'll carry out the > cardinal sin, and just > power the things up anyway. Fortunately, a kindly > sysadmin had labelled the > tape drive connectors, so they could be applied to > the correct slot. Not so > with the MUX cable; and besides, the other end of > the MUX seemed to be > missing anyway (i.e the DeMUXer). So, my total > experimentation with the > F-series was limited to pressing buttons on the > panel and getting the > blinkenlights to blinken. Which they did in a most > satisfactory manner, I > might add. Efforts to do anything with the tape > drive were also effectively > thwarted; I did manage to get a tape loaded, and the > "on line" light to > blinken (well, "come on" would be more accurate"). > No amount of pressing > front panel buttons would make them spin on their > own, however. > > Ho hum. > > So, I tried the A700, which at least will talk to a > terminal. > Unfortunately, it won't listen to the terminal, so > there's something a bit > fishy going on there as well. That boot screen was > as far as I got. > > Ho hum ^ 2. > > So, I made do with loading a disc (dunno where to > plug it in to the 1000, > though, so can't load anything from it, even if I > knew the correct > pushenbutton sequence). > > Questions/requests arising: > > 1) Does *anyone* here know anyone (or IS someone) > who is/was a sysadmin (or > related/married to same) of an F-series HP 1000? If > so, can you/they render > any help? > > 2) Does anyone have access to a set of F-series > manuals, especially > installation reference manuals? If so, are they in > electronic format; if > not, can you/they bear to part with them for at > least as long as it will > take me to scan them? > > 3) Has anyone got a suitable demuxer? (8-port, takes > centronix plug & has 8 > D25 socket outputs) > > Cheers y'all. > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com From petrock00 at hotmail.com Tue Feb 25 13:26:10 2003 From: petrock00 at hotmail.com (Rob Petrovec) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Help ID this board... Message-ID: Hey, I was wondering if someone could help me ID this card. I found this board in an old Macintosh IIx at a swap meet... When I opened up the case I saw this big (about 12 inches long and 4 inches wide) BLUE board plugged into one of the NuBus slots. It has two large chips on it with the markings Xilinx XC2018-70 PC84C. There is only one port on the card that looks like a 9 pin VGA or serial port. It has a hand written serial number (1570156), and a part number of 10008 Rev#2. There is only one sticker on the card that says "1990 LTI; All Rights Reserved; Ver DPDII 52290H" Does anyone have a clue? Since the board is blue, I figured that its probably a prototype of something, maybe a video card?? Thanks in advance... --Rob From Vincent.Fontaine at alcatel.be Tue Feb 25 13:34:41 2003 From: Vincent.Fontaine at alcatel.be (Vincent Fontaine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: HP 16C Message-ID: <3E5B96D7.FA9D0676@alcatel.be> Hi Brian, I have seen on this site http://www.classiccmp.org/ that you are looking for a HP 16C. If you wish, I can send you a PC emulator of HP 16C. Regards, Vincent. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Feb 25 13:36:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Does the FDDI controller load down the host systems CPU, or does it handle > the load onboard? It doesn't really matter, after a little research, I > don't think I'll be testing this unless I happen upon a really cheap FDDI > controller, it looks like they're more than I can afford to spend on a > something that would be to simply satisfy my curiousity. I'd imagine that if you saturate the Qbus with traffic over the FDDI module, you'll probably cause some pain for any other peripherals which also rely on the Qbus. I think most of the Qbus gear tends to be very good about offloading I/O processing to the boards themselves, but I'd still expect the CPU to take a hit for things like assembling and disassembling the TCP/IP packets (calculating checksums and moving bits around kernel and user buffer areas.) If you're running diskless off NFS, I'd expecting more CPU requirements associated with all the filesystem overhead. Still, I'd imagine it'd be quite a lot faster than locally attached MFM disks. I can't claim to be much of an expert on the internals of the NetBSD kernel, or on the capabilities of the DEFQA, but I wouldn't be surprised if the CPU on something like a MicroVAX-II ended up being the weakest link in pushing data over FDDI. It'd be interesting to gather some empirical data for something like MicroVAX-II, MicroVAX 3600, and various VAX 4000 models. -brian. From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Feb 25 13:37:04 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, David Betz wrote: > I recently received email from FThomas470@aol.com informing me about > the availability of some Monrobot XI computers. I would love to acquire > one of these as the Monrobot XI was the first computer I ever > programmed (in junior high school). Unfortunately, I am not sure I am > going to be able to afford to ship one from Virginia to NH. In any > case, I certainly can't take all 5-6 of them. If you are interested, > please contact the email address above. I don't have any more > information than what I'm posting here. If anyone decides to rent a > truck to move them from Virginia toward New England I'd be interested > contributing to the cost of the rental in exchange for hauling one for > myself. > > Here is the text of the messages I've received about these machines: > > Litton Industries's Monrobot XI > > We are in Charlottesville, Virginia and we have 5 or 6 of them in > storage. Until 7 or 8 years ago two of them were still being used and > worked just fine. In their time, they were really great machines and I > enjoyed programming and working with them. > > We also have 2 Friden Computypers which are earlier than the Monrobots. > They had no electronics at all, but used rwo Friden late model > mechanical calculators with solenoids on all the keys and electrical > contacts on all the dials. They used a pile of stepping switches and a > big plug-board for programming. It was a far-out design but worked very > well. > > We will be moving shortly and are pressed for space. Please let me have > your thoughts and/or suggestions. If you are interested, any reasonable > offer would be considered. > > The Monrobot consists of the main computer unit which contains the > electronics and magnetic drum, a little control unit with switches and > control buttons and a place for the I/O typewriter. It's about the size > of an office desk and weighs about 400 lbs. A side section connects to > it and has a paper tape punch and a reader. > Jeez 5-6 computers from the 50's and they're all 400# and far away - road trip! I would help fund such trip if there was any chance of getting one to the west coast... Peter Wallace From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Feb 25 13:37:53 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Nova 2 Front Panel Bulbs Message-ID: Well, I finally got around to working on my Novas again, and the first thing on my list was to replace the burnt out bulbs on the front panels. I started with my Nova 2. Several months ago I bought a bulb at Radio Shack to try out and today I soldered it on to the Nova 2 front panel PCB. It worked, the light lit up very brightly when the machine was in the RUN state (it was the RUN light that I replaced). The light is *very* bright. It also gets warmer that the others do, but it is a smaller bulb. It also seems that all the other lights dim when it comes on, but IIRC, they always did that when the machine was in the RUN state, before I replaced any bulbs. Anyway, I wanted to double check before I replaced all the lights and make sure of the voltage level. Does anyone know what that is? I don't have much Nova 2 documentation, and the Nova 1200 documentation I have doesn't list that information. -- Owen Robertson From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Feb 25 13:38:45 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, David Betz wrote: > The Monrobot consists of the main computer unit which contains the > electronics and magnetic drum, a little control unit with switches and > control buttons and a place for the I/O typewriter. It's about the size > of an office desk and weighs about 400 lbs. A side section connects to > it and has a paper tape punch and a reader. Here's a sort of crummy picture of one that I found: A very interesting looking system, though I wish the control unit was pictured in more detail than is available in the image. -brian. From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Feb 25 13:39:38 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Care and Feeding of Trolls In-Reply-To: References: <20030225184415.49679.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030225192444.00b780c0@slave> At 19:01 25/02/2003, you wrote: >Jackass. Great TV show[1], but less than 10 yrs old, ITYWF... [1] At least, it's great to watch after several pints of falling-over water at the local hostelry... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From cb at mythtech.net Tue Feb 25 13:47:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Help ID this board... Message-ID: > There is only one sticker on the card >that says "1990 LTI; All Rights Reserved; I believe LTI is Lapis Technologies. They made video cards for the Mac. I would guess it is probably a video card of some kind. Many of the older full page display cards had 9 pin connectors. I don't know if they used a standard video output or if they had to go to the monitor they were meant for. >Since the board is blue, I figured that its >probably a prototype of something, maybe a video card? Probably just artistic license on coloring the board. I have seen blue video cards before in the Mac. -chris From hansp at aconit.org Tue Feb 25 13:49:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available References: Message-ID: <3E5BC800.6010307@aconit.org> Brian Chase wrote: > Here's a sort of crummy picture of one that I found: > > A very interesting looking system, though I wish the control unit was > pictured in more detail than is available in the image. Indeed, perhaps the owners would be kind enough to take picutres so that we can archive them. Also what documentation might they have and might that be made available for scanning? -- hbp From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Tue Feb 25 13:54:01 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7871D2BA-48FA-11D7-8C86-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> Do you have any idea how much it would cost to ship a 400# machine? On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, at 02:26 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, David Betz wrote: > >> I recently received email from FThomas470@aol.com informing me about >> the availability of some Monrobot XI computers. I would love to >> acquire >> one of these as the Monrobot XI was the first computer I ever >> programmed (in junior high school). Unfortunately, I am not sure I am >> going to be able to afford to ship one from Virginia to NH. In any >> case, I certainly can't take all 5-6 of them. If you are interested, >> please contact the email address above. I don't have any more >> information than what I'm posting here. If anyone decides to rent a >> truck to move them from Virginia toward New England I'd be interested >> contributing to the cost of the rental in exchange for hauling one for >> myself. >> >> Here is the text of the messages I've received about these machines: >> >> Litton Industries's Monrobot XI >> >> We are in Charlottesville, Virginia and we have 5 or 6 of them in >> storage. Until 7 or 8 years ago two of them were still being used and >> worked just fine. In their time, they were really great machines and I >> enjoyed programming and working with them. >> >> We also have 2 Friden Computypers which are earlier than the >> Monrobots. >> They had no electronics at all, but used rwo Friden late model >> mechanical calculators with solenoids on all the keys and electrical >> contacts on all the dials. They used a pile of stepping switches and a >> big plug-board for programming. It was a far-out design but worked >> very >> well. >> >> We will be moving shortly and are pressed for space. Please let me >> have >> your thoughts and/or suggestions. If you are interested, any >> reasonable >> offer would be considered. >> >> The Monrobot consists of the main computer unit which contains the >> electronics and magnetic drum, a little control unit with switches and >> control buttons and a place for the I/O typewriter. It's about the >> size >> of an office desk and weighs about 400 lbs. A side section connects to >> it and has a paper tape punch and a reader. >> > > > Jeez 5-6 computers from the 50's and they're all 400# and far away - > road > trip! > > > I would help fund such trip if there was any chance of getting one to > the west > coast... > > > Peter Wallace From schoedel at host.kw.igs.net Tue Feb 25 13:58:00 2003 From: schoedel at host.kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Nova 2 Front Panel Bulbs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200302251954.h1PJsld06485@host.kw.igs.net> >Anyway, I wanted to double check before I replaced all the lights and make >sure of the voltage level. Does anyone know what that is? It's 15V if I recall correctly. >I don't have much Nova 2 documentation, Technical manual and schematics that I scanned a few years ago are on Al Kossow's site under http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dg/ -- Kevin Schoedel From jwest at kwcorp.com Tue Feb 25 14:02:00 2003 From: jwest at kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: KNOCK IT OFF people Message-ID: <03d301c2dd04$cc97bfe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Yes, cctalk is not the totally off-topic free zone that cctech is. However, do NOT interpret that as a "anything goes" policy. I've sat back and watched the past few days of crap threads and I'm a little tired of it. More importantly, I've received numerous complaints. OFF topic posts on cctalk ARE ok. But I think we're all adult enough to know what is pushing the envelope. Sure, go off topic, that's what this list is for. But extended threads on religion, politics, etc. that are little more than pi**ing contests are just off-base. Thanks Jay West From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Feb 25 14:02:52 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Atari ST spares In-Reply-To: <20030225040514.LWPO7180.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: Hi folks, Just wondering if any UK list lurkers and regulars have a keyboard and floppy drive for an Atari 520STfm? Got one here that's had An Incident with its keyboard and has been repaired in the past but has since gone bad again, but it appears that the floppy is toast since it continually tries to seek track 0 and won't read/write even Atari format disks. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Feb 25 14:04:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: <20030225042239.5995.qmail@web20809.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030224220737.01af08a0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030225195450.01f93060@slave> At 04:22 25/02/2003, Lee Courtney wrote: Hi Lee, >Nice system! Pictures are great. Ta! Whilst I can't exactly take much credit for the systems (other than providing the space to store them), I'm glad you like the pics. >I worked on the system generator (RT6GN) and system >installer (SWTCH) when I was in the 1000 Lab. Do you >know what version of RTE the F Series was running. I /think/ it runs RTE-IVB, but it may be some variant of version 6; I'd have to take a closer look at the disc packs - most of them have some kind of label. >There is probably a system pack sitting around you can >just boot off of. Excellent; I'm hoping this is the case. IIRC, there's at least one labeled "master". Next time I'm up there, I'll take a copy all of the labels & post them here for analysis. >WHen I left HP and did the Silicon Valley start a >company thing we had several 7925 drives (like yours) >hanging off an HP1000. Cool - I don't suppose you can remember which i/f board they're supposed to be connected to, do you? I tried to make sure all the little labels on the tags were visible in the card cage pictures, so maybe one will jog your memory? > Very sensitive to dust, dirt, >etc. Looking at them cross-eyed would cause a head >crash. Erk... >If possible I'd move the drives, and especially >those really nice looking disk packs, inside the house >or cover them so they are not exposed to dirt, dust, >moisture, etc. I'll move the disc packs, I've got a little office attached to the side of the warehouse which is pretty dust, dirt & moisture free; can't do much with the drives though, they're too heavy to get over the step, and wouldn't really fit in the office anyhow. I can cover them with a tarp though. >You might also post a note on COMP.SYS.HP.HPUX to see >if you find any sources of manuals. Will do; thanks for the pointer. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From chpap at ics.forth.gr Tue Feb 25 14:14:00 2003 From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: DHV11 on BSD2.9 Message-ID: <006e01c2dd09$faef8300$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> I have read in a message by Steve Schultz that there are 2.9BSD drivers for the DHV11-A around. Can I still find them? From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 25 14:16:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030224220737.01af08a0@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030225195450.01f93060@slave> Message-ID: <001d01c2dd0a$0d925320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> VERY nice system Adrian! Looks very clean and in great shape to boot. I'm jealous of the 7925!!! Reminds me that I need to get downstairs and rack about eight 790x drives, just laying loose is causing the S/O much grief :) From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 25 14:16:52 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Care and Feeding of Trolls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Jackass. Sellam, you're *way* out of line. Shut up. Please. --fred From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 25 14:21:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: <20030225161412.73979.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > serial tape drive on your second serial port (you DO have a second slu?) > > On a machine that old? Unlikely. Machines of the era before the DZ-11, > and especially machines that were not destined for timesharing, tended > to have few serial ports, - a console and probably nothing else. My good old 11/10 had 4 DL-11's, thankyou. One for teh console (in current-loop mode) which I believe was an LA75, and the other three had either a terminal or a connection to the "big" PDP at school (11/34a 7th Ed. UNIX) so I could play with things. I still have my console DL-11 here- its kind of sacred to me. > It's easy enough to _add_ a second SLU card, (DL-11something), _if_ > you have one lying around (which I expect he doesn't). DL-11W (with clock) or DL-11E (w/ modem control) would be good. > As a place to put RT-11, a virtual TU58 isn't a bad idea. Hopefully > wharever emulator you have can emulate both units - the TU58 is kinda > small, even compared with 8" floppies. Thats how I had it then.. the "disk server" ran on the 11/34a, over the serial line. > How much RAM does VTserver require? Older versions of RT-11 (those > contemporary with the 11/10) are usable at aroun 8KW, IIRC. Of course > the full 28KW is nice, especially if you want to run large apps like > ADVENT, but the CUSPS should all run with minimal RAM. About 100K. The client routine in the PDP-11 uses about 400 bytes. --fred From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Feb 25 14:24:01 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: <7871D2BA-48FA-11D7-8C86-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, David Betz wrote: > Do you have any idea how much it would cost to ship a 400# machine? No, but with machine of that vintage and weight, I dont think I would trust a 3rd party to load and ship them... Peter Wallace From chu at verizon.net Tue Feb 25 14:40:00 2003 From: chu at verizon.net (chu@verizon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Help with my PDP 11/73 Message-ID: <20030225203631.DUFC25218.out005.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> I have gotten my PDP 11/73 to start up and go through an initialization script for RSX-11Mplus. However, I do not know any uids/passwords, so I cannot login; I can only watch the script go by. I am able, while the script is running, to break into MCR and run commands like PDP and DMP. I am able to dump in octal some of the files like [0,0]001054.DIR;1. Does anyone know where the user names/passwords are stored? My memory says that the maybe they are not encrypted? Is that so? TIA, DAve Chu From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 25 14:59:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Info wanted: IBM vacuum tube digital computer demonstrator In-Reply-To: <35F5E396DA78D4118C2D00508BEED22E017A1EDA@pd1016.zfm.zf-gro up.de> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030225153338.3af7b152@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Max, Great! Thanks! Joe At 12:56 PM 2/25/03 +0100, you wrote: >On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > >>Yes, that's the item but I'm pretty certain that he's wrong about it being >a >> field engineer's test set. A couple of list members have tracked down >several >> of these but no docs yet. > >Hi > >The diagrams of the plugglable units should be available at: >http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/ibmpu/ > >Max From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Feb 25 15:01:01 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:21 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wow. That is awesome. I would love to have one of those. It looks like a wonderful machine. If anyone manages to get up there and can deliver one to north Texas, I'll help sponsor a trip in any way I can. -- Owen Robertson on 2/25/03 1:10 PM, David Betz at dbetz@xlisper.mv.com wrote: > I recently received email from FThomas470@aol.com informing me about > the availability of some Monrobot XI computers. I would love to acquire > one of these as the Monrobot XI was the first computer I ever > programmed (in junior high school). Unfortunately, I am not sure I am > going to be able to afford to ship one from Virginia to NH. In any > case, I certainly can't take all 5-6 of them. If you are interested, > please contact the email address above. I don't have any more > information than what I'm posting here. If anyone decides to rent a > truck to move them from Virginia toward New England I'd be interested > contributing to the cost of the rental in exchange for hauling one for > myself. > > Here is the text of the messages I've received about these machines: > > Litton Industries's Monrobot XI > > We are in Charlottesville, Virginia and we have 5 or 6 of them in > storage. Until 7 or 8 years ago two of them were still being used and > worked just fine. In their time, they were really great machines and I > enjoyed programming and working with them. > > We also have 2 Friden Computypers which are earlier than the Monrobots. > They had no electronics at all, but used rwo Friden late model > mechanical calculators with solenoids on all the keys and electrical > contacts on all the dials. They used a pile of stepping switches and a > big plug-board for programming. It was a far-out design but worked very > well. > > We will be moving shortly and are pressed for space. Please let me have > your thoughts and/or suggestions. If you are interested, any reasonable > offer would be considered. > > The Monrobot consists of the main computer unit which contains the > electronics and magnetic drum, a little control unit with switches and > control buttons and a place for the I/O typewriter. It's about the size > of an office desk and weighs about 400 lbs. A side section connects to > it and has a paper tape punch and a reader. From fm.arnold at gmx.net Tue Feb 25 15:08:01 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: TU58 Emulation (was: M9312 Bootstrap Questions) In-Reply-To: <20030225180001.66521.44331.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030225180001.66521.44331.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 25.02.2003: >From: "Robert F. Schaefer" >Subject: Re: TU58 Emulation (was: M9312 Bootstrap Questions) >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:02:56 -0500 > >> Frank Arnold wrote: >> > I hope you can boot anything else, do you have a DL11-W? You could use >> > this with a PeeCee emulated TU58 for diagnostics ect. >> >> Two questions. >> >>First, has anyone here emulated a TU58 successfully in software? I searched >>through the archives and found lots of posts that say "you could" and none >>that say "I did". If it's doable, what software should I use? There is a true SW-emulation at: http://www.not-compatible.org/PDP-11/programs/tu58sim.html Someone else has done another simulator as well, but don't remember it now >You might want to take a look at >http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm. Thats a nice HW-emulation, is much faster as the real tape... Frank From fm.arnold at gmx.net Tue Feb 25 15:59:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: PDP-11/04 on Ebay - whats wrong with it? In-Reply-To: <20030225180001.66521.44331.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030225180001.66521.44331.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 25.02.2003: >Subject: PDP-11/04 on Ebay - whats wrong with it? >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:27:37 +1100 >From: "Kane, David (DPRS)" > >Hi, > > >A PDP-11/04 on ebay >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3403225 >748&rd=1 > >I have to start by stating I am in Australia. Our dollar might have >crept back up to a smidgen over 60 cents US today, but the opening bid >on the PDP will still be considerable, then add international shipping >and ooooooh ouch. But despite all that I am still toying with the idea >of bidding on the item. I do need a little assistance before making a >definitive decision. For those unaware the item was listed before >recently but was passed in unbid. I did not get interested last time >since the description did not list a CPU card, and the seller did not >reply to an enquiry regarding a CPU card. I notice that this time there >is a CPU card listed (M7263). My quandary is over the seller's comment >that the "Unit powers up and reads 0002777" although the pictures have >it reading 000277. My worry is that the unit is severely broken. Can any >take a stab at guessing what might be wrong, is it possibly just the >lack of a boot device (floppy of hard disk)? > > The lack of boot devices is certainly one reason, but I dont see any memory in that machine either. The seller advertises a Plessey PM1116, a 16 kw module, but it's not in the machine. If you compare the photos, you will see different board-configurations, so they are actively playing with what to take out and what to leave in.... :-(( This is a very bad sign in my eyes, as they say that they cannot test. If thats true, why do they swap the modules around ? Also the far-end unibus-terminator is missing, pointing to a canibalised backplane and/or expansionbox. Will you be able to find that terminator? Without that the machine will never run. Anyway aske a detailed list of all the included modules from the seller. Further this machine will weight some 50 - 60 kg. At the same weight and thus shipping cost you can get an 11/34. Thatone will be a lot more fun, as it will allow you a bigger selection of os's. The 11/04 is limited to 28 (31 with a trick) kwords of memory, has no memory management and will therefore never run the bigger PDP11 SW-packages. If I were to decide, I would leave thisone where it is now, too uncertain at the probably huge cost of shipping. You better stick to a system that hasn't been altered after its decommisioning. Its always better if you can talk to the people that were previousley using the maschine you get, although this happens seldom. Finalley, look at the selles feedback, (which is realley good) he's selling just about anything from anywhere. Don't expect any expertise on the item sold. Frank From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Feb 25 16:03:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030224230413.01aed498@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030225215225.0202a1b0@slave> At 04:41 25/02/2003, you wrote: >On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > Maybe that's why it won't blinken properly? > > > > I suppose I'll just have to purchase classic-minicomputers.com & > > classic-mainframes.com as well; trouble is, I'll need to collect a load > > more of them then - and my shed isn't *that* big - at least, not with all > > the racing car gear in there as well :) > >Get another shed; then we'll call you "Adrian `Two Sheds' Vickers." Hehe! Unfortunately, even my extravagant lifestyle wouldn't stretch to two sheds; I do, however, have a rather under-utilised garage; I should be able to fit some Vaxen in that, although that nice looking Univac would have to live in the shed... Unfortunately, I simply can't afford to buy & transport that, otherwise I would... I wonder, what /would/ it cost to air-freight a complete Univac from the US to the UK?... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Feb 25 16:17:00 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wonder how many other computers have had an article devoted to them in the New Yorker magazine: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?010528fr_archive02 God! I'd love to go get one, but I literally have no space for one, wife or otherwise. I'll try to assist in a rescue if one is organized, I'm probably about an hour and a half drive away. Bill Sudbrink From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Feb 25 16:21:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030225215225.0202a1b0@slave> Message-ID: <000301c2dd1b$b5f40980$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Unfortunately, I simply can't afford to buy & transport that, > otherwise I > would... I wonder, what /would/ it cost to air-freight a > complete Univac > from the US to the UK?... I know a reseller who relatively recently transported a VAX 9000 to the US for something in the region of $3000. The VAX 9000 weighs more than 400lbs but it probably went via container ship rather than air-freight. So it's not *completely* out of this world - assuming you are a *serious* collector, of course :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Feb 25 17:01:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, David Betz wrote: > > The Monrobot consists of the main computer unit which contains the > > electronics and magnetic drum, a little control unit with switches and > > control buttons and a place for the I/O typewriter. It's about the size > > of an office desk and weighs about 400 lbs. A side section connects to > > it and has a paper tape punch and a reader. > > Here's a sort of crummy picture of one that I found: > > Here's a better picture, and a page with more detailed information about the Monrobot XI and some other systems: -brian. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 25 17:55:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Identifying a Motolora chip - MC14544? In-Reply-To: from "Doug Jackson" at Feb 25, 3 11:31:39 am Message-ID: > >IIRC, the 14412 didn't demodulate CCITT tones reliably at 300 baud. The > >better-designed UK modems that used this chip at all used it for the > >modulator only and used something like an XR2211 for the demodulator. > > > Ahh, That explains why it was allways fussy about signal levels. The data > sheet said that it could do it, and I had to alter the level of the > BELL/CCITT pin. YEs, that's what the data sheet claimed. But like you, I found it to be 'touchy'. It would work on the bench when given 'perfect' signals at the right levels, it didn't like the signal from the accoustic coupler... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 25 17:58:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: More HX-20 questions In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030224231705.0230fec0@localhost> from "Chris Saunders" at Feb 24, 3 11:23:01 pm Message-ID: > Hello, > > I picked up an HX-20 years ago, and have finally some time to play with it. > > I have a couple questions that perhaps one of you others out there with an > HX-20 could answer. > > HX-20 Background: > > Cream Color, Cassette Module, NO 16K expansion, HP HEDS-3000 barcode > reader, barcode ROM installed, labeled in Pen BARCODE Z. > > Everything seems to work fine. I am trying to get the BARCODE ROM loaded. I > have read all the EPSON docs on their support site. Have not been able to > locate a BASIC tutorial online though. > > Questions: > > 1) Should the installed ROM (NOT a module but inside the HX-20) show up > automagically in the menu? I think not. I think it adds extra facilities to BASIC -- either as an extra 'device' that you can OPEN a stream to, or as a set of routins to CALL. I don;t know which. > 2) If not, how to I go about loading it into memory? > 3) Thoughts on the easiest way to interface the HX-20 to a Win box or > anyone tried a terminal program and a Palm? I can't help with the Windows end, but the 8 pin DIN connector on the back of the HX20 is a RS232 port with a fairly sane pinout (I can look it up if it's not in any of the manuals you have). That could be linked (with a suitably-wired null modem cable) to the serial port on a PC. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 25 17:59:10 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Info wanted: IBM vacuum tube digital computer demonstrator In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030224211555.42e794c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Feb 24, 3 09:15:55 pm Message-ID: > Also posted is the schematic of the TH-1, "one shot" using the 2D21 > tube (SCR with a pilot light!). Shouldn't that be XCR, not SCR :-) (SCR = Silicon Controlled Rectifier. Presumably the 2D21 (EN91 to me) is a Xenon Controlled Rectifier ) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 25 18:00:12 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Fujitsu MB15140 chips for 2351 Eagle Availiable In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030225073242.019a7990@mail.ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Feb 25, 3 07:34:52 am Message-ID: > Hmm, is that chip used in the Fujitsu 2284 drive as well? If so, I may I haev no idea. When the chip was mentioned as coming from Fujitsu, I looked in the only 2 Fujitsu manuals I have -- for the 2311 and 2351 drives. It's not used in the former, it is used in the latter. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 25 18:01:17 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: <20030225161412.73979.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 25, 3 08:14:12 am Message-ID: > --- pavl wrote: > > I would strongly recommend using TU58.exe on a host pc to emulate a > > serial tape drive on your second serial port (you DO have a second slu?) > > On a machine that old? Unlikely. Machines of the era before the DZ-11, > and especially machines that were not destined for timesharing, tended > to have few serial ports, - a console and probably nothing else. It was Serial pots were used for things other than terminals... Many printers had serial interfaces, as did the TU58 (which is what started this discussion). While timesharing was rare on machines without memory managemnt, it was not uncommon to have 3 or 4 serial ports in such machines. Be warned that the DL11 (simple serial port) and the DZ11 (etc -- 'multiplexer' serial ports) look very different in software! Older OSes may well only support the former. -tony From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Feb 25 18:17:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, David Betz wrote: > > > > The Monrobot consists of the main computer unit which contains the > > > electronics and magnetic drum, a little control unit with switches and > > > control buttons and a place for the I/O typewriter. It's about the size > > > of an office desk and weighs about 400 lbs. A side section connects to > > > it and has a paper tape punch and a reader. > > > > Here's a sort of crummy picture of one that I found: > > > > > > Here's a better picture, and a page with more detailed information about > the Monrobot XI and some other systems: > > > > > -brian. > Thanks! thats beautiful! Now I really want one! Peter Wallace From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 25 18:27:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Available: various DEC monitors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All, Available as of right now, various DEC color monitors of the 19" and heavy kind. VR and VRT series. Obviously for pickup only, in the Hilversum-Amsterdam area in The Netherlands. What's left by next week will be scrapped - I need the space for machines. Cheers, Fred From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Feb 25 18:44:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030225215225.0202a1b0@slave> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030224230413.01aed498@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030225193649.05813ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > ... I wonder, what /would/ it cost to air-freight a complete Univac > from the US to the UK?... A king's ransom? At 09:55 PM 2/25/03 +0000, you wrote: >At 04:41 25/02/2003, you wrote: > > >On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > > Maybe that's why it won't blinken properly? > > > > > > I suppose I'll just have to purchase classic-minicomputers.com & > > > classic-mainframes.com as well; trouble is, I'll need to collect a load > > > more of them then - and my shed isn't *that* big - at least, not with all > > > the racing car gear in there as well :) > > > >Get another shed; then we'll call you "Adrian `Two Sheds' Vickers." > >Hehe! > >Unfortunately, even my extravagant lifestyle wouldn't stretch to two sheds; >I do, however, have a rather under-utilised garage; I should be able to fit >some Vaxen in that, although that nice looking Univac would have to live in >the shed... > >Unfortunately, I simply can't afford to buy & transport that, otherwise I >would... I wonder, what /would/ it cost to air-freight a complete Univac >from the US to the UK?... > > >-- >Cheers, Ade. >Be where it's at, B-Racing! >http://b-racing.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 25 18:54:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030226005051.57596.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > --- pavl wrote: > > (you DO have a second slu?) > > > > On a machine that old? Unlikely. Machines of the era before the DZ-11, > > and especially machines that were not destined for timesharing, tended > > to have few serial ports... > > Serial pots were used for things other than terminals... Many printers > had serial interfaces, as did the TU58 (which is what started this > discussion). True, but serial terminals were not common when the PDP-11/10 was being sold new. In the DEC world, it was the day of ASR-33s and parallel line printers on the low end. Five years later, serial printers were much more common (LA-36 and newer). > While timesharing was rare on machines without memory managemnt, it was > not uncommon to have 3 or 4 serial ports in such machines. Again, my experiences in the DEC world are that Unibus RT-11-class machines ( less than 28KW of RAM, one or two disk devices, no MMU ) tended not to have multiple DL-11s. I'm not saying it never happened, it just wasn't common. It was much more common when the low end switched to the Qbus platforms. > Be warned that the DL11 (simple serial port) and the DZ11 (etc -- > 'multiplexer' serial ports) look very different in software! Older OSes > may well only support the former. True. Good call. I have never used a DZ-11 under any version of RT-11 and have no idea how it would work out. I have used DZ-11s with RSTS and RSX. Works great. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 25 18:56:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030226005220.37999.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Chase wrote: > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, David Betz wrote: > > > > The Monrobot consists of the main computer unit which contains the > > > electronics and magnetic drum... > > > > Here's a sort of crummy picture of one that I found: > > > > > > Here's a better picture... > > > That looks painfully familiar. I think I passed one of those up about 18 years ago... it was too heavy for me to move by myself and I was driving a VW Beetle at the time... -ethan From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Feb 25 18:58:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/25/03 4:57 PM, Brian Chase at vaxzilla@jarai.org wrote: > Here's a better picture, and a page with more detailed information about > the Monrobot XI and some other systems: > > > Whoa. That is incredible. I would love to have one of those. It's beautiful. Bet it's a lot of fun to work with too. Probably fun to program something like that - 1K, paper tape, old printing typewriter console... -- Owen Robertson From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 25 19:29:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: <20030226005051.57596.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030226005051.57596.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4764.4.20.168.191.1046222716.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ethan wrote: > True, but serial terminals were not common when the PDP-11/10 was > being sold new. In the DEC world, it was the day of ASR-33s and > parallel line printers on the low end. ISTR that the ASR-33 is a serial terminal. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 25 19:38:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: <20030226005051.57596.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 25, 3 04:50:51 pm Message-ID: > > Serial pots were used for things other than terminals... Many printers > > had serial interfaces, as did the TU58 (which is what started this > > discussion). > > True, but serial terminals were not common when the PDP-11/10 was > being sold new. In the DEC world, it was the day of ASR-33s and What the heck is an ASR33 if not a serial terminal???? > parallel line printers on the low end. Five years later, serial > printers were much more common (LA-36 and newer). These machines were in use for a lot longer than 5 years (or at least the ones I've resched were...). It was not uncommon for them to have serial ports added later. > > > While timesharing was rare on machines without memory managemnt, it was > > not uncommon to have 3 or 4 serial ports in such machines. > > Again, my experiences in the DEC world are that Unibus RT-11-class > machines ( less than 28KW of RAM, one or two disk devices, no MMU ) > tended not to have multiple DL-11s. I'm not saying it never happened, > it just wasn't common. It was much more common when the low end > switched to the Qbus platforms. COnsidering there's little, if any, difference between the 2 types of machine _in software_, there's no real reason why Q-bus machines would have multiple DL11-type ports and Unibus machines wouldn't. Other than possibly the fact that DEC made a 4-port DL11 for Q-bus (DLV11-J) but not for Unibus. 3rd parties made 4 and 8 port Unibus DL11s, though. -tony From pzachary at sasquatch.com Tue Feb 25 20:30:01 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pavl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 References: <20030225161412.73979.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E5C267B.E6C1F5AA@sasquatch.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- pavl wrote: > > I would strongly recommend using TU58.exe on a host pc to emulate a > > serial tape drive on your second serial port (you DO have a second slu?) > > On a machine that old? Unlikely. Machines of the era before the DZ-11, > and especially machines that were not destined for timesharing, tended > to have few serial ports, - a console and probably nothing else. It was > a boon that a low-end Qbus machine commonly came with a DLV11J with a > port for the console, a port for a TU58 and two more ports for DECwriters > or machine-to-machine communication or whatever. the later console/SLU is common and adds a handy clock, but an awful lot of the machines I've met had two, or in one recent case I saw a 11/45(very early) with about six... even my pdp-8/L has addidional serial ports. > > It's easy enough to _add_ a second SLU card, (DL-11something), _if_ > you have one lying around (which I expect he doesn't). > > > to boot RT11 off virtual tape so you can poke around and build a system > > from there. > > As a place to put RT-11, a virtual TU58 isn't a bad idea. Hopefully > wharever emulator you have can emulate both units - the TU58 is kinda > small, even compared with 8" floppies. > > > VTserver is really amazingly great, but you may not have enough ram and > > booting RT or XXDP from a slu will give you better diagnostics to assess > > your RK05,etc > > How much RAM does VTserver require? Older versions of RT-11 (those > contemporary with the 11/10) are usable at aroun 8KW, IIRC. Of course > the full 28KW is nice, especially if you want to run large apps like > ADVENT, but the CUSPS should all run with minimal RAM. > > -ethan ISTR vtserver wants something 30kw? the problem here is finding RT11 (see mentec,licence,endless moral posts), esp. one that is old and small, even then, old RT11 has some problems so you don't want to if you don't have a good reason (I'd love to have something that would run on my 8KW 11/20) so V5 wants 16KW just to say hi, V4 is only slightly smaller. Pavl_ From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 25 20:50:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: OT: FreeBSD (was: "Real Computers") In-Reply-To: <001b01c2dc9d$cdd8aa20$0100000a@milkyway> References: <003901c2dbda$7c62d300$0100000a@milkyway> <20030224195221.GP12807@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <001b01c2dc9d$cdd8aa20$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <1222369427.20030225204622@subatomix.com> Well, here's my OT post for the month. On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > I'll try FreeBSD when I've got a spare few hours to download the ISO > image. You might find it easier to install by FTP. It's simple: download two floppy disk images, dd 'em to some 3.5s, and reboot. Then install as normal, except choose FTP as the install media. It isn't lightning-fast, but you also only download the data that you need instead of an entire ISO. ObClassicCmp: FreeBSD makes a great OS for running classic computing tools like SIMH. > Slackware is quite stable, probably because Slackware have a "We're not > going to hack the Kernel, nor are we going to use any fancy packaging > systems or init scripts". I've heard many people say that Slackware is the most BSD-like of the Linuces. Of course, that was on Slashdot, so it must be true. -- Jeffrey Sharp From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 25 21:15:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Lambda Compudialer? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030225221825.48bf0b9c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anyody know anything about a Lambda Compudialer 729? It looks kind of like a desktop calculator but it's actually a phone dialer. It's not the automatic dialer advertised by those telephone SCAMMERS Compudial. This dates from 1979. Joe From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Feb 25 21:17:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay Message-ID: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> Someone paid over $500 dollars for it??????????? I have two maybe three of them and never paid over $5 for any of them. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3402403400 From chriss at kingston.net Tue Feb 25 21:20:01 2003 From: chriss at kingston.net (Chris Saunders) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: 25th Anniversary of Ward Christensen's BBS In-Reply-To: <3E5BB93E.70807@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030225092342.02f67b80@pc> <20030225092250.T47754@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030225221141.0230e9d0@localhost> >Yes the 8086 does date the number. In some ways the BBS system was better >than todays internet was while conectivity was a problem if >you used long distance calls; Most BBS's had lots of duplicated files >and information where todays information is rarely mirrored. Ahhh.... Gotta love Copyright laws etc. Of course, The type info that BBS's had is still mirrored on a lot of the sites that cater to same folks as BBSes did..... ChriS From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 25 21:35:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> References: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <165101836.20030225213155@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, Keys wrote: > Someone paid over $500 dollars for it??????????? I have two maybe three of > them and never paid over $5 for any of them. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3402403400 Those are 99/4s, *not* 99/4As. I believe the 4s are more rare than the 4As. Back when I was selling stuff on eBay, I had three, and each sold for over $100 IIRC. Don't take what I say as fact, though. Other than playing cartridge games on one when I was a kid, I don't know anything about TI-99s. -- Jeffrey Sharp From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Feb 25 21:37:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested Message-ID: I recently picked up a TRS-80 model 4, that seems to have problems with its floppy drives. The machine is a base Model 4 with 64KB of ram (I think - haven't yet taken the EMF shield off the mainboard), and no peripherals attached. When I powered it up the first time, with or without a disk in the (bottom) drive, it displayed "Cass?" on the screen, and then I could press enter to that and the "Memory size?" prompt, and get a basic prompt. I tried swapping the floppy drives, and that time I got a "Diskette?" prompt if there was no disk in the drive, and pressing any keys didn't cause anything to happen. If I put a disk in the drive, the machine never displays anything, and then after 10-20 seconds, the drive light goes out. I tried connecting only one drive at a time, with the same results. If I connected a 1.2MB floppy that I had laying around (a Teac FD-55GFR-149-U), it did the same thing as if the drives were swapped. Yes, I realize that the drive probaly wasn't going to work, I just wanted to see if it did anything. Also, the disk I used was supposed to be a TRS-DOS (bootable) disk, but it's possible that they've gone bad after so many years. Are the disks on the Model 4 recorded so that I can read them on a PC (IE 48/96tpi MFM, compatible with the NEC D765)? I'd like to know if I can make backup images and/or see if the disks work on another machine. Thanks. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Feb 25 21:43:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 Message-ID: I Don't know that it is, or at least don't know if the system will acknowledge its full capacity. CPUs and RAM were pretty small then, and the BIOS didn't like being pushed for more than 320k. Before asking if the system can handle it, you might wanna look into the BIOS, and see if *it* can handle it. Cheers... Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "Hurd, > Kenneth Steven CIV" > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 8:58 AM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 > > Hello, > > Do you know if it is possible to install a 1.44MB floppy drive in a > Zenith > 100? > > Thank you. > > Ken. [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From dholland at woh.rr.com Tue Feb 25 21:46:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> References: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <1046230968.16707.3.camel@crusader> That's a 99/4.. not a 99/4A.. It was my impression the 4 was somewhat rarer than the 4A.. however, I don't think it was 510$ rarer (shoo).... Perhaps its got a "Heart of Gold infinite improbability CPU"(tm) in it or something... :-) David On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 22:13, Keys wrote: > Someone paid over $500 dollars for it??????????? I have two maybe three of > them and never paid over $5 for any of them. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3402403400 From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Feb 25 21:47:06 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 Message-ID: Hmm... Gagging? I ran DOS 2.x and 3.x in the USAF on everything from Z-100s to Z248s. A bit sloggy by current standards, but they ran... Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of Joe > > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:21 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 > > At 04:49 PM 2/20/03 -0800, Sellam wrote: > >On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 acme@ao.net wrote: > > > >> > OR you can get a copy of MS-DOS 4.00 and patch it to run on the > Z-100. > >> > >> Jeez, Joe, now I'm really gagging. MS-DOS on a Z-100? Yuck. > > > >The Z-100 was intended as a dual OS machine. You had the best > >(presumably) of both worlds: CP/M and MS-DOS. > > You forgot to include CPM-86. > > Joe [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Feb 25 21:49:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 Message-ID: Hmm... Would anyone be willing/able to explain the CP/M-86 OS to me -- either on or off the list? I'm still new enough that DOS was my world until Windoze came along... Cheers Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of acme@ao.net > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:13 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 > > From: Vintage Computer Festival > Date: 02/20/2003 7:58 PM > > > On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 acme@ao.net wrote: > > > > > > OR you can get a copy of MS-DOS 4.00 and patch it to run on the > Z-100. > > > > > > Jeez, Joe, now I'm really gagging. MS-DOS on a Z-100? Yuck. > > > > The Z-100 was intended as a dual OS machine. You had the best > > (presumably) of both worlds: CP/M and MS-DOS. > > Sure -- that's how I set mine up, but to me, running MS-DOS on it makes it > too > much like a run-of-the-mill PC, whereas running CP/M-86 gives it more of a > "vintage" flavor. Make sense? (I'm not feeling very articulate today) > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Feb 25 22:17:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay References: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> <1046230968.16707.3.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <004b01c2dd4d$13868b00$0400fea9@game> Its funny to me how a computer with a crappy keyboard like that model is worth so much more then the better later version with a proper keyboard. The computers I collect actually get used so if I ever wanted a Ti it would be the one with the nicer keyboard. My first computer was a timex 2068 and learning to program on chicklet keyboards sucks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Holland" To: "Classic Computer Talk" Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:42 PM Subject: Re: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay > That's a 99/4.. not a 99/4A.. It was my impression the 4 was somewhat > rarer than the 4A.. however, I don't think it was 510$ rarer (shoo).... > > Perhaps its got a "Heart of Gold infinite improbability CPU"(tm) in it > or something... :-) > > David > > On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 22:13, Keys wrote: > > Someone paid over $500 dollars for it??????????? I have two maybe three of > > them and never paid over $5 for any of them. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3402403400 From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Feb 25 22:20:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <000201c2dd4d$d6a39420$6e7ba8c0@piii933> The TI 99/4 (no "A") is rarer then the later full-keyboard model but it ain't worth $500. . . Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Keys Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 7:13 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay Someone paid over $500 dollars for it??????????? I have two maybe three of them and never paid over $5 for any of them. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3402403400 From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 25 22:35:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <004b01c2dd4d$13868b00$0400fea9@game> References: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> <1046230968.16707.3.camel@crusader> <004b01c2dd4d$13868b00$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <1348710755.20030225223204@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Its funny to me how a computer with a crappy keyboard like that model is > worth so much more then the better later version with a proper keyboard. I took apart one of the ones I sold. I was appalled by the cheap construction of the keyboard, especially the flimsy way the space bar was mounted. -- Jeffrey Sharp From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Feb 25 22:58:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay References: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> <1046230968.16707.3.camel@crusader> <004b01c2dd4d$13868b00$0400fea9@game> <1348710755.20030225223204@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <005601c2dd51$cd5cdda0$0400fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:32 PM Subject: Re: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay > On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, TeoZ wrote: > > Its funny to me how a computer with a crappy keyboard like that model is > > worth so much more then the better later version with a proper keyboard. > > I took apart one of the ones I sold. I was appalled by the cheap > construction of the keyboard, especially the flimsy way the space bar was > mounted. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp It wouldnt surprise me how cheap they were. Unlike today where people upgrade computers every year back then people actually used them for a few years. Having a comfortable keyboard to type in basic programs out of a magazine would be high on my list of things to look for back then. Just to let you know the machine I am typing on now has 2 keyboards, 1 is a Gateway USB keyboard I got from compgeeks that has a logitech optical mouse and wingman digital usb joystick attached (for games) and an old Northgate Omnikey/102 keyboard I got new with my first 386 that I do 90% of my typing on. The gateway was maybe $20 new and for the most part is disposable, while the Northgate cost me $70-80 back in the early 90's and goes for quite a few dollars even today on ebay. From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 25 23:07:55 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: "Real Computers" (was Re: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Zoki wrote: > > > > $150 is still cheap for a case. One of my PC Power and Cooling cases > > cost $650. It's built like a tank. > > > > > *** I beg to differ: Hundred-fifty-dollars for a case is très expensive. > SIX-HUNDRED-FIFTY-DOLLARS is mind-bogglingly ridiculous... Not in the kind of system I'm talking about. High end IBM PS/2 were upwards of $12,000 new. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 25 23:09:02 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Care and Feeding of Trolls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > > And I want to remain welcome on this interesting list. Sellam has my respect and admiration and has done a lot for this community. You have not, and have done much to torpedo my opinion of you. AFAIK, if you leave this list, it would be beneficial to the community. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Feb 25 23:10:07 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: HP 16C In-Reply-To: <3E5B96D7.FA9D0676@alcatel.be> Message-ID: There' On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Vincent Fontaine wrote: > Hi Brian, > > I have seen on this site http://www.classiccmp.org/ > that you are looking for a HP 16C. > > If you wish, I can send you a PC emulator of HP 16C. > > Regards, Vincent. From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Tue Feb 25 23:12:01 2003 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 References: <20030225161412.73979.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E5C4B25.5050507@pacbell.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- pavl wrote: > >>VTserver is really amazingly great, but you may not have enough ram and >>booting RT or XXDP from a slu will give you better diagnostics to assess >>your RK05,etc >> > >How much RAM does VTserver require? Older versions of RT-11 (those >contemporary with the 11/10) are usable at aroun 8KW, IIRC. Of course >the full 28KW is nice, especially if you want to run large apps like >ADVENT, but the CUSPS should all run with minimal RAM. > The "normal" boot program used by VTserver is (I think) the BSD 2.9 boot with standalone drivers for VTserver itself and whatever other devices you have configured in. Unfortunately this means that it assumes that you have an MMU and a fair amount of memory (192K ?) which makes it not very useful for use on small 11's Michael Davidson From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Feb 25 23:13:05 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: SCSI cards In-Reply-To: <3e59ddeb70afd3.93445681@zipcon.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224021457.025c9960@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: >I just wish I could find the SCSI controller that a German company made >for the DEC Rainbow. it'd be nice to pull the 20 meg HD out and drop a >500 meg SCSI in it's place :) Wow! Is this documented? That *does* sound cool. Though I'm not sure just how long it'd take to defragment... :-) How did it work with the OS's, which were limited to disk sizes nothing like 500 Meg? - Mark From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 25 23:41:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: SCSI cards In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Feb 25, 2003 09:37:20 PM Message-ID: <200302260537.h1Q5bsK18498@shell1.aracnet.com> > >I just wish I could find the SCSI controller that a German company made > >for the DEC Rainbow. it'd be nice to pull the 20 meg HD out and drop a > >500 meg SCSI in it's place :) > > Wow! Is this documented? That *does* sound cool. Though I'm not sure just > how long it'd take to defragment... :-) > How did it work with the OS's, which were limited to disk sizes nothing > like 500 Meg? > - Mark That's a valid question, how big of an drive will the OS's on a Rainbow support? I'm guessing you might be limited to 30MB, even if you've a bigger drive in the system. IIRC, CP/M and old versions of DOS only support up to 30MB. Zane From oldcomp at cox.net Tue Feb 25 23:51:01 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Lambda Compudialer? References: <3.0.6.16.20030225221825.48bf0b9c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E5C548A.7050503@cox.net> I remember several products of that era (can't remember the names!) that were designed to add functions to telephones that we take for granted these days: call waiting, call forwarding (both required two phone lines) and speed dialing. One device would redial a busy number continuously until it got through. (Demon dialer?) I sold them to businesses and car phone users. Bryan Joe wrote: > Anyody know anything about a Lambda Compudialer 729? It looks kind of like a desktop calculator but it's actually a phone dialer. It's not the automatic dialer advertised by those telephone SCAMMERS Compudial. This dates from 1979. > > Joe From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 25 23:55:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: <3E5C267B.E6C1F5AA@sasquatch.com> Message-ID: <20030226055133.11021.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- pavl wrote: > ... even my pdp-8/L has addidional serial ports. Cool! How? What device? None of the PDP-8/Ls I've seen (five so far, out of 3900) had anything more advanced than more core or high-speed papertape. I'd love to see some pictures of some expanded units. > (I'd love to have something that would run on my 8KW 11/20) so > V5 wants 16KW just to say hi, V4 is only slightly smaller. I _think_ I have V2.1 on some RX01s out at my farm. V4, though, is probably the oldest version that's recognizable to the modern eye. Previous versions seem to be mostly ways to get PIP into core. -ethan From msspc at rev.net Tue Feb 25 23:58:00 2003 From: msspc at rev.net (Clayton Frank Helvey, President) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Final page for John Willis... Message-ID: <1030226005120.ZM19070@msspc> John, my repeated attempts to get some type of resolution for that CDROM you received in November have met with no response to date from you. Please contact me by March 10th. I'm looking for payment of the agreed-on fees or the return of the CDROM drive. Thank you, Frank Helvey -- ==== M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C. ==== Clayton Frank Helvey President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 United States of America Phone 540.947.5364 =================================================================== From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Feb 26 01:00:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Collectors List In-Reply-To: <004301c2db76$8fe700e0$0400a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <3E5C0CD0.32225.50A257D@localhost> I sat on this a bit gritting my teeth but I can't let it pass. I was involved with this individual in setting up Toronto Computer Collectors Club and he agreed to take part by doing the site coding and putting the site in his name with some contributions from others including myself, who expended considerable effort in getting it going. He then used the site to gobble up any computer contributions in the name of TC3. He likely has the largest collections of Hyperion artifacts in NA due to the gullibility of well-meaning contributers of collections to TC3. One of whom mentioned it would take a couple of carloads for equipment and documentation. Following the diclosure of this, TC3, which I had played the main role of organising in order to have a center for local Toronto computer collectors to get together broke up. I would advise collectors to stay clear of this guy since based on my experience he would only use your enthusiasm for classic computers to his own advantage. Lawrence On 23 Feb 2003, , Brian Mahoney wrote: > Several years ago I set up a list of collectors on the TC3 > site, which some of you may remember. Subsequent to that > site being shut down by its host, I moved the list to my > personal site at the following url: > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ > > The collector's list is reached from a link on the main page > and resides at this url : > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collecto > rs.htm > > The reason for this message is to request that anyone who is > on this list, contact me HERE : > > antiquecomputers@hotmail.com > > to update their information. I have recently sent out an > email to all person on the list, but find that almost > everyone has moved ... email address anyway. If anyone > reading this wishes to be put on the list, I would be glad > to add their name and information, just be sure to format it > the same way it is on the list. > > (None of this benefits me in any way, if anyone is > wondering. However, since I receive email almost every day > originating from my site, it is a constant source of > information and resources for me. When someone has a > computer for sale or donation, they frequently email me and > I refer them back to the site to see if there is a collector > near them. Most, of course, are from the states and many, > many of the requests are for good homes for donated > computers.) > > PLEASE don't contact me through the list, use > antiquecomputers@hotmail.com only. I will repost this a > couple more times, unless someone really finds it useless. lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Feb 26 01:01:51 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E5C0CD0.10751.50A25B4@localhost> Basicly it was the CP/M system ported to the Intel CPU. Along with the Zenith, the DEC Rainbow used it (and CP/M-80, CCP/M, MSDOS). TMK both had dual x80 and x86 processors. I also have a binder put out by Xerox which has Digital Researches original manual CP/M-86 Programmers Guide, so possibly Xerox had a machine that used it. It's dated 3rd edition, January 1983 I believe the OS is still available out there, possibly on Tim Olmsteads old site now run by Gene Buckle. Lawrence On 25 Feb 2003, , Tillman, Edward wrote: > Hmm... Would anyone be willing/able to explain the CP/M-86 > OS to me -- either on or off the list? I'm still new enough > that DOS was my world until Windoze came along... > > Cheers > > Ed > San Antonio, Tx, USA > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of > > acme@ao.net Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:13 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Floppy drive for > > Zenith 100 > > > > From: Vintage Computer Festival > > Date: 02/20/2003 7:58 PM > > > > > On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 acme@ao.net wrote: > > > > > > > > OR you can get a copy of MS-DOS 4.00 and patch it to > > > > > run on the > > Z-100. > > > > > > > > Jeez, Joe, now I'm really gagging. MS-DOS on a Z-100? > > > > Yuck. > > > > > > The Z-100 was intended as a dual OS machine. You had > > > the best (presumably) of both worlds: CP/M and MS-DOS. > > > > Sure -- that's how I set mine up, but to me, running > > MS-DOS on it makes it too much like a run-of-the-mill PC, > > whereas running CP/M-86 gives it more of a "vintage" > > flavor. Make sense? (I'm not feeling very articulate > > today) > > > > Later -- > > > > Glen > > 0/0 > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type > application/ms-tnef] lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Feb 26 01:02:55 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Atari ST spares In-Reply-To: References: <20030225040514.LWPO7180.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3E5C0CCF.17115.50A2537@localhost> Well I'm not in old blimey, otherwise I could offer a KB. The ST floppy drives have been the bane of my Atari ST existance. There must be a multitude of STers out there that have tried to reform these beasts. At some time I'm going to get serious about reclaiming them, instead of simply replacing them. I did restore a couple by fiddling around with the heads, even without a scope or timing disk.Which gave me a couple of more years on 2 of them, but of course they eventually failed again. $%#%$ mumble, Sam Tramiel,#$@$#^, mumble,mumble. Lawrence On 25 Feb 2003, , Adrian Graham wrote: > Hi folks, > > Just wondering if any UK list lurkers and regulars have a > keyboard and floppy drive for an Atari 520STfm? Got one here > that's had An Incident with its keyboard and has been > repaired in the past but has since gone bad again, but it > appears that the floppy is toast since it continually tries > to seek track 0 and won't read/write even Atari format > disks. > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans lgwalker@ mts.net From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Feb 26 01:09:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: SCSI cards In-Reply-To: <200302260537.h1Q5bsK18498@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030225231004.06552a00@mail.zipcon.net> I'm pretty sure that msdos 3.11 supported multiple partitions :) also if I had a SCSI controller in the beastie I'd probably go on the quest for rainbow Venix :) At 09:37 PM 2/25/03 -0800, you wrote: > > >I just wish I could find the SCSI controller that a German company made > > >for the DEC Rainbow. it'd be nice to pull the 20 meg HD out and drop a > > >500 meg SCSI in it's place :) > > > > Wow! Is this documented? That *does* sound cool. Though I'm not sure just > > how long it'd take to defragment... :-) > > How did it work with the OS's, which were limited to disk sizes nothing > > like 500 Meg? > > - Mark > >That's a valid question, how big of an drive will the OS's on a Rainbow >support? I'm guessing you might be limited to 30MB, even if you've a bigger >drive in the system. IIRC, CP/M and old versions of DOS only support up to >30MB. > > Zane From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Feb 26 02:42:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI card... In-Reply-To: ; from vaxzilla@jarai.org on Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 20:24:21 CET References: Message-ID: <20030225234824.U41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.25 20:24 Brian Chase wrote: > It'd be interesting to gather some empirical data for something > like MicroVAX-II, MicroVAX 3600, and various VAX 4000 models. Well. I have a MV II, a MV 3900, a VAX 4000-400 and a DEFQA. The DEFQA is based on the same PDQ engine as the DEF[TEP]A. The later are already suported by NetBSD. It would be quite easy to write a QBus attachment for NetBSD to make the DEFQA usable. Unfortunately I have no docs about the DEFQA... (Hint! ;-) ) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 26 03:08:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:22 2005 Subject: Help ID this board... Message-ID: <20030226090456.32848.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> > I was wondering if someone could help me ID this card. I found this board > in an old Macintosh IIx at a swap meet... > Does anyone have a clue? Since the board is blue, I figured that its > probably a prototype of something, maybe a video card?? Thanks in > advance... if it isn't video, possibly a token ring card? I'm sure somebody made them... cheers, Jules Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Feb 26 03:37:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Help ID this board... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030226013813.026cf090@mail.zipcon.net> At 05:11 AM 2/25/03 -0500, you wrote: > It has a hand written serial number (1570156), and a part number of > 10008 Rev#2. There is only one sticker on the card that says "1990 LTI; > All Rights Reserved; Ver DPDII 52290H" > >Does anyone have a clue? Since the board is blue, I figured that its >probably a prototype of something, maybe a video card?? Thanks in advance... Dual Page Display card From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Feb 26 06:52:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: STOP! (RE: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT R e: (no subject)) Message-ID: Concur. > Guys. Stop. Topic. Nuf said. [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Feb 26 08:41:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <004b01c2dd4d$13868b00$0400fea9@game> References: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> <1046230968.16707.3.camel@crusader> <004b01c2dd4d$13868b00$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <1046270285.28171.5.camel@crusader> Ha! Try a Timex-Sinclair 1000. Membrane keyboard, I'd of been much happier with a chicklet keyboard. First computer I had any real time on. (Complete with 16K RAM expansion, and a cassette interface) I'd love to get ahold of one now, just for nostalgia's sake, but don't seem to see them lying around up here, and I'm not going to do the Epay thing for one of those.. Wonder if I could get the cassette interface to work YET. :-? David On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 23:11, TeoZ wrote: > Its funny to me how a computer with a crappy keyboard like that model is > worth so much more then the better later version with a proper keyboard. The > computers I collect actually get used so if I ever wanted a Ti it would be > the one with the nicer keyboard. My first computer was a timex 2068 and > learning to program on chicklet keyboards sucks. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 26 08:43:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: SCSI cards In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030225231004.06552a00@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20030226143830.95058.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Geoff Reed wrote: > I'm pretty sure that msdos 3.11 supported multiple partitions :) It does. I have a PS/2 Model 30 (ISA) with a 50MB RLL drive replacing the original IBM IDE-ish drive. Two partitions under MS-DOS 3.11, one 30MB, one 20MB. The problem is that there is a small number of partitions possible (I don't recall if FDISK works the same way under 3.x as it did later), certainly no more than 4 primary partitions. DOS 4.x came out (as bad as it was) before 200MB drives were common. By the time "everybody" was buying "larger" drives, DOS 5.0 was out, solving several problems with historical baggage. > also if I had a SCSI controller in the beastie I'd probably go on the > quest for rainbow Venix :) Hmm... I would expect you'd need a Venix driver for it. If you _really_ wanted a challenge, you could port Minix to the Rainbow. Sources are available. Writing a Minix driver for the FDC might be interesting (not sure how much suitable documentation exists). -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 26 09:14:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030226084216.0fff0048@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi pat, I too just picked up a model 4. I didn't get any disks but mine says "Disk?" when I power it up. I opened it up and mine is a basic 64k machine with two SS disk drives. The drives in mine are made by Texas (somebody), Texas Peripherals maybe? I checked and they're 40 track SS drives. I believe these are the original disk drives for the M4 but I've been told that they will support 80 track and DS drives. But I don't know if you had to patch the BIOS and/or OS to do that. Joe At 10:38 PM 2/25/03 -0500, you wrote: >I recently picked up a TRS-80 model 4, that seems to have problems with >its floppy drives. > >The machine is a base Model 4 with 64KB of ram (I think - haven't yet >taken the EMF shield off the mainboard), and no peripherals attached. >When I powered it up the first time, with or without a disk in the >(bottom) drive, it displayed "Cass?" on the screen, and then I could press >enter to that and the "Memory size?" prompt, and get a basic prompt. > >I tried swapping the floppy drives, and that time I got a "Diskette?" >prompt if there was no disk in the drive, and pressing any keys didn't >cause anything to happen. If I put a disk in the drive, the machine never >displays anything, and then after 10-20 seconds, the drive light goes out. > >I tried connecting only one drive at a time, with the same results. If I >connected a 1.2MB floppy that I had laying around (a Teac FD-55GFR-149-U), >it did the same thing as if the drives were swapped. Yes, I realize that >the drive probaly wasn't going to work, I just wanted to see if it did >anything. > >Also, the disk I used was supposed to be a TRS-DOS (bootable) disk, but >it's possible that they've gone bad after so many years. Are the disks on >the Model 4 recorded so that I can read them on a PC (IE 48/96tpi MFM, >compatible with the NEC D765)? I'd like to know if I can make backup >images and/or see if the disks work on another machine. > >Thanks. > >Pat >-- >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 26 09:15:17 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030226084541.0fff0018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:39 PM 2/25/03 -0600, Ed wrote: >I Don't know that it is, or at least don't know if the system will >acknowledge its full capacity. CPUs and RAM were pretty small then, and the >BIOS didn't like being pushed for more than 320k. Before asking if the >system can handle it, you might wanna look into the BIOS, and see if *it* >can handle it. Are you kidding? The Z-100s routinely had 768k of RAM installed and I think they could handle even more but it got tricky due to hard addressed hardware that conflicked with the added memory. I gave away my two Z-100s but both had 768k installed and I still have a couple of memory cards around here somewhere. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 26 09:17:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Lambda Compudialer? In-Reply-To: <3E5C548A.7050503@cox.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030225221825.48bf0b9c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030226085509.0fff02b2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:45 PM 2/25/03 -0700, you wrote: >I remember several products of that era (can't remember the names!) that >were designed to add functions to telephones that we take for granted >these days: call waiting, call forwarding (both required two phone >lines) and speed dialing. Right, that's what this appears to be. Modern phones will do the same thing but this has a large VF display. Modern phones have a tiny LCD display. I picked this up for a friend of mine. He's nearly blind and has a very hard time reading LCD displays. For example, he still prefers a HP-45 to the HP-41. One device would redial a busy number >continuously until it got through. (Demon dialer?) I still have a Demon Dialer. It's great for getting through to those ALWAYS BUSY numbers (like tech support!) The modern phones won't redial continously like the Demon Dialer will. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 26 09:18:09 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <004b01c2dd4d$13868b00$0400fea9@game> References: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> <1046230968.16707.3.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030226084844.0fff0018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:11 PM 2/25/03 -0500, Teoz wrote: >Its funny to me how a computer with a crappy keyboard like that model is >worth so much more then the better later version with a proper keyboard. The >computers I collect actually get used so if I ever wanted a Ti it would be >the one with the nicer keyboard. My first computer was a timex 2068 and >learning to program on chicklet keyboards sucks. If you think that sucks, you should try toggling it all in with bit switches! Especailly the narrow bite-into-your-finger switches used on the original Altairs. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 26 09:20:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 In-Reply-To: <3E5C0CD0.10751.50A25B4@localhost> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030226090158.0fff00e2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:39 AM 2/26/03 -0600, you wrote: > Basicly it was the CP/M system ported to the Intel >CPU. Yes, ported to the 8086 which was the first intel 16 bit CPU (before the 8088). That's why it was called CPM-86. Along with the Zenith, the DEC Rainbow used it >(and CP/M-80, CCP/M, MSDOS). TMK both had dual >x80 and x86 processors. I also have a binder put out by >Xerox which has Digital Researches original manual >CP/M-86 Programmers Guide, so possibly Xerox had a >machine that used it. Correct, XEROX made a model 8/16 that had two CPUs, one 8 bit and 16 bit. I THINK one was a Z-80 and the other was a 8086 but I'm not sure any more. I used to have the docs for an 8/16 and I've been looking for one but haven't managed to find one yet. Joe It's dated 3rd edition, January 1983 > I believe the OS is still available out there, possibly on >Tim Olmsteads old site now run by Gene Buckle. > >Lawrence > > >On 25 Feb 2003, , Tillman, Edward wrote: > >> Hmm... Would anyone be willing/able to explain the CP/M-86 >> OS to me -- either on or off the list? I'm still new enough >> that DOS was my world until Windoze came along... >> >> Cheers >> >> Ed >> San Antonio, Tx, USA >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of >> > acme@ao.net Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:13 PM >> > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Floppy drive for >> > Zenith 100 >> > >> > From: Vintage Computer Festival >> > Date: 02/20/2003 7:58 PM >> > >> > > On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 acme@ao.net wrote: >> > > >> > > > > OR you can get a copy of MS-DOS 4.00 and patch it to >> > > > > run on the >> > Z-100. >> > > > >> > > > Jeez, Joe, now I'm really gagging. MS-DOS on a Z-100? >> > > > Yuck. >> > > >> > > The Z-100 was intended as a dual OS machine. You had >> > > the best (presumably) of both worlds: CP/M and MS-DOS. >> > >> > Sure -- that's how I set mine up, but to me, running >> > MS-DOS on it makes it too much like a run-of-the-mill PC, >> > whereas running CP/M-86 gives it more of a "vintage" >> > flavor. Make sense? (I'm not feeling very articulate >> > today) >> > >> > Later -- >> > >> > Glen >> > 0/0 >> >> [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type >> application/ms-tnef] > > >lgwalker@ mts.net From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Feb 26 09:45:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay References: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> <1046230968.16707.3.camel@crusader> <3.0.6.16.20030226084844.0fff0018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00a001c2ddad$2ceff800$0400fea9@game> Yea well I wasnt old enough to deal with punch cards either :) The Timex 2068 was released in 82 or 83 when the Vic20/c64 had proper keyboards. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 8:48 AM Subject: Re: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay > At 11:11 PM 2/25/03 -0500, Teoz wrote: > >Its funny to me how a computer with a crappy keyboard like that model is > >worth so much more then the better later version with a proper keyboard. The > >computers I collect actually get used so if I ever wanted a Ti it would be > >the one with the nicer keyboard. My first computer was a timex 2068 and > >learning to program on chicklet keyboards sucks. > > If you think that sucks, you should try toggling it all in with bit switches! Especailly the narrow bite-into-your-finger switches used on the original Altairs. > > Joe From fm.arnold at gmx.net Wed Feb 26 10:06:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: RSX11M passwords, (was: Help with my PDP 11/73) In-Reply-To: <20030226044943.72956.46863.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030226044943.72956.46863.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 25.02.2003: >From: >To: >Subject: Help with my PDP 11/73 >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:36:31 -0800 > >I have gotten my PDP 11/73 to >start up and go through an initialization >script for RSX-11Mplus. However, I do not >know any uids/passwords, so I cannot >login; I can only watch the script go by. >I am able, while the script is running, to break >into MCR and run commands like PDP and DMP. >I am able to dump in octal >some of the files like [0,0]001054.DIR;1. >Does anyone know where the user names/passwords >are stored? My memory says that the maybe >they are not encrypted? Is that so? > The passwords are stored in a file [0,0]RSX11M.sys if I recall it correctley. Should be a rather small file, just pip it to the printer to see it, it should be an ASCII-file. I think that after version 3.2 of rsx11m passwords were encripted, before that, in plain text. Copy this file to some other media and delete it from your system disk, After a new cold start you should have an open system. with RUN $ACNT you can create new user-accounts if you desire. Frank From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Feb 26 10:07:46 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: SCSI cards Message-ID: IBM PC-DOS 3.30 could support 4 partitions, one Primary and 3 Extended. The primary partition is limited to 32MB. Extended partitions can be divided into a number of logical drives, each limited to 32MB. What limits the number of ligical drives (beyond the disk capacity) is the availability of drive letters: the primary partition is assigned to Drive C: (unless you have more than two floppy drives), and the logical drives get letters from D: through Z:. By my calculations, with all 24 hard drive letters assigned, the limit is 768MB. -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 8:39 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: SCSI cards --- Geoff Reed wrote: > I'm pretty sure that msdos 3.11 supported multiple partitions :) It does. I have a PS/2 Model 30 (ISA) with a 50MB RLL drive replacing the original IBM IDE-ish drive. Two partitions under MS-DOS 3.11, one 30MB, one 20MB. The problem is that there is a small number of partitions possible (I don't recall if FDISK works the same way under 3.x as it did later), certainly no more than 4 primary partitions. DOS 4.x came out (as bad as it was) before 200MB drives were common. By the time "everybody" was buying "larger" drives, DOS 5.0 was out, solving several problems with historical baggage. > also if I had a SCSI controller in the beastie I'd probably go on the > quest for rainbow Venix :) Hmm... I would expect you'd need a Venix driver for it. If you _really_ wanted a challenge, you could port Minix to the Rainbow. Sources are available. Writing a Minix driver for the FDC might be interesting (not sure how much suitable documentation exists). -ethan From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Feb 26 10:13:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <00a001c2ddad$2ceff800$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <02d301c2ddb1$3d979790$46f8b8ce@impac.com> TeoZ Said: " The Timex 2068 was released in 82 or 83 when the Vic20/c64 had proper keyboards." Define your terms. I remember the LICA (Long Island Computer Association) meeting immediately following the release of the much anticipated C= 64. There were several retailers in attendance, each of whom had horror stories of empty boxes, boxes filled with incomplete or inoperable machines and, my favorite story, a unit whose keyboard was all "Q"s. It seems that Commodore had to rush to get their Christmas orders filled and they ended up cutting a few corners. I had a friend with a Vic-20 who had an uncanny ability to "launch" keys. Several times when he'd be showing me stuff the key he'd press would pop off the keyboard and be flung upward by the spring. . . Submitted for your entertainment. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 26 10:14:06 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > I wonder how many other computers have had an article devoted > to them in the New Yorker magazine: > > http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?010528fr_archive02 An interesting article. The original sale price in 1960 was $24,500. The unit also ran off of standard line voltage (110) and required no additional cooling. It could be moved from any location to any location and used just about anywhere. So this begs the question, why did the PDP-8 create the "mini-computer" class and not this or other machines with similar attributes? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 26 10:16:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Keys wrote: > Someone paid over $500 dollars for it??????????? I have two maybe three > of them and never paid over $5 for any of them. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3402403400 It's the TI 99/4 (not TI 99/4a). They are fairly rare. If you have "two maybe three" then consider yourself lucky. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dan at ekoan.com Wed Feb 26 10:18:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Timex-Sinclair 1000, was Re: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <1046270285.28171.5.camel@crusader> References: <004b01c2dd4d$13868b00$0400fea9@game> <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> <1046230968.16707.3.camel@crusader> <004b01c2dd4d$13868b00$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030226110415.05376680@enigma> At 09:38 AM 2/26/03 -0500, you wrote: >Try a Timex-Sinclair 1000. Membrane keyboard, I'd of been much happier >with a chicklet keyboard. First computer I had any real time on. >(Complete with 16K RAM expansion, and a cassette interface) A while back I picked up two TS 1000's at an estate sale. Each came with a printer (the TS 2040), a beefy external power supply and two 16K RAM expansions (one TS, one by Memotech). More to the point, each also came with an external Memotech keyboard. The keyboard has 41 keys, each with at least three different functions, and connects via ribbon cable to a "Memopak I/F" box labelled "Keyboard Buffer", which in turn plugs into the computer's bus. I haven't actually tried to use either of them, but they appear to be new in the box so I expect they would work as well as they ever did. I can provide photos if anyone is interested. So, you could get a third-party full-travel keyboard for the TS-1000 (and similar, e.g. ZX81), which would make it much easier to use. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 26 10:19:08 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <165101836.20030225213155@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Those are 99/4s, *not* 99/4As. I believe the 4s are more rare than the 4As. Well, TI 99/4's are rare, whereas TI 99/4a's are certainly not. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 26 10:25:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: <000301c2dd1b$b5f40980$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > I know a reseller who relatively recently transported a VAX 9000 > to the US for something in the region of $3000. The VAX 9000 > weighs more than 400lbs but it probably went via container ship > rather than air-freight. It generally costs in the area of US$3,000 to ship a 40ft container from the west coast of the US to Europe. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 26 10:31:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030226084844.0fff0018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > At 11:11 PM 2/25/03 -0500, Teoz wrote: > >Its funny to me how a computer with a crappy keyboard like that model is > >worth so much more then the better later version with a proper keyboard. The > >computers I collect actually get used so if I ever wanted a Ti it would be > >the one with the nicer keyboard. My first computer was a timex 2068 and > >learning to program on chicklet keyboards sucks. > > If you think that sucks, you should try toggling it all in with bit > switches! Especailly the narrow bite-into-your-finger switches used on > the original Altairs. Oh yeah? Well in my day, we didn't have zeroes. Just the letter 'O'! ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Feb 26 10:40:01 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > I wonder how many other computers have had an article devoted > > to them in the New Yorker magazine: > > > > http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?010528fr_archive02 > > An interesting article. The original sale price in 1960 was $24,500. > The unit also ran off of standard line voltage (110) and required no > additional cooling. It could be moved from any location to any location > and used just about anywhere. > > So this begs the question, why did the PDP-8 create the "mini-computer" > class and not this or other machines with similar attributes? I would guess: Factor of ~1000 speed difference. I/O flexibility. The Monrobot would be too slow for lots of lab and process control applications that the PDP8 handles easily > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > PCW From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Feb 26 11:04:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available References: Message-ID: <3E5CF220.8070007@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > An interesting article. The original sale price in 1960 was $24,500. > The unit also ran off of standard line voltage (110) and required no > additional cooling. It could be moved from any location to any location > and used just about anywhere. > > So this begs the question, why did the PDP-8 create the "mini-computer" > class and not this or other machines with similar attributes? > I suspect it was do to that fact "electronic brains" were still thought in terms of large calculators. Real time control and data processing were still many years in the future. The PDP-8/S proved that serial processing of data was too slow for computing in the 1960's. Considering $5,000 ?? would buy a house in 1960 that still was a very large amount of $$$. Ben. From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Feb 26 11:45:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c2ddbe$93813b40$0100a8c0@benchbox> That 1.2mb drive might actually work. I've used both 1.44 3.5" and 1.2mb 5.25" drives on my (Now Kurt's) ATR8000. Some of these drives can be jumpered to emulate 77 track 8" floppy drives. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Finnegan Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:38 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested I recently picked up a TRS-80 model 4, that seems to have problems with its floppy drives. The machine is a base Model 4 with 64KB of ram (I think - haven't yet taken the EMF shield off the mainboard), and no peripherals attached. When I powered it up the first time, with or without a disk in the (bottom) drive, it displayed "Cass?" on the screen, and then I could press enter to that and the "Memory size?" prompt, and get a basic prompt. I tried swapping the floppy drives, and that time I got a "Diskette?" prompt if there was no disk in the drive, and pressing any keys didn't cause anything to happen. If I put a disk in the drive, the machine never displays anything, and then after 10-20 seconds, the drive light goes out. I tried connecting only one drive at a time, with the same results. If I connected a 1.2MB floppy that I had laying around (a Teac FD-55GFR-149-U), it did the same thing as if the drives were swapped. Yes, I realize that the drive probaly wasn't going to work, I just wanted to see if it did anything. Also, the disk I used was supposed to be a TRS-DOS (bootable) disk, but it's possible that they've gone bad after so many years. Are the disks on the Model 4 recorded so that I can read them on a PC (IE 48/96tpi MFM, compatible with the NEC D765)? I'd like to know if I can make backup images and/or see if the disks work on another machine. Thanks. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Feb 26 11:47:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Atari ST spares In-Reply-To: <3E5C0CCF.17115.50A2537@localhost> Message-ID: <000501c2ddbe$d4389d40$0100a8c0@benchbox> Atari could screw up a one-car funeral man. I love all their gear, but the ST's are weird with floppy drives. How did they manage to get all of the ST machines to keep the drives ON all the time? Geez. Regards, jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Walker Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 1:40 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Atari ST spares Well I'm not in old blimey, otherwise I could offer a KB. The ST floppy drives have been the bane of my Atari ST existance. There must be a multitude of STers out there that have tried to reform these beasts. At some time I'm going to get serious about reclaiming them, instead of simply replacing them. I did restore a couple by fiddling around with the heads, even without a scope or timing disk.Which gave me a couple of more years on 2 of them, but of course they eventually failed again. $%#%$ mumble, Sam Tramiel,#$@$#^, mumble,mumble. Lawrence On 25 Feb 2003, , Adrian Graham wrote: > Hi folks, > > Just wondering if any UK list lurkers and regulars have a > keyboard and floppy drive for an Atari 520STfm? Got one here > that's had An Incident with its keyboard and has been > repaired in the past but has since gone bad again, but it > appears that the floppy is toast since it continually tries > to seek track 0 and won't read/write even Atari format > disks. > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans lgwalker@ mts.net From acme at ao.net Wed Feb 26 12:03:01 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay Message-ID: <200302261758.MAA06775@eola.ao.net> From: TeoZ Date: 02/25/2003 11:18 PM > Its funny to me how a computer with a crappy keyboard like that model is > worth so much more then the better later version with a proper keyboard. The > computers I collect actually get used so if I ever wanted a Ti it would be > the one with the nicer keyboard. My first computer was a timex 2068 and > learning to program on chicklet keyboards sucks. Yeah, well, for those of us who started with a ZX81/TS1000, the TS2068 keyboard was a big step up :>) Later -- Glen 0/0 From acme at ao.net Wed Feb 26 12:04:09 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 Message-ID: <200302261758.MAA06791@eola.ao.net> Lawrence -- Most likely the manual you have is for the Xerox 16/8. Later -- Glen 0/0 > Basicly it was the CP/M system ported to the Intel > CPU. Along with the Zenith, the DEC Rainbow used it > (and CP/M-80, CCP/M, MSDOS). TMK both had dual > x80 and x86 processors. I also have a binder put out by > Xerox which has Digital Researches original manual > CP/M-86 Programmers Guide, so possibly Xerox had a > machine that used it. It's dated 3rd edition, January 1983 > I believe the OS is still available out there, possibly on > Tim Olmsteads old site now run by Gene Buckle. > > Lawrence > > > On 25 Feb 2003, , Tillman, Edward wrote: > > > Hmm... Would anyone be willing/able to explain the CP/M-86 > > OS to me -- either on or off the list? I'm still new enough > > that DOS was my world until Windoze came along... > > > > Cheers > > > > Ed > > San Antonio, Tx, USA From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Feb 26 12:09:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: References: <000301c2dd1b$b5f40980$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030226130408.06062cd0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > > It generally costs in the area of US$3,000 to ship a 40ft container from > > the west coast of the US to Europe. Ever hear what it would run from ... East Coast to Europe? and ... West Coast to Asia? At 08:17 AM 2/26/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > I know a reseller who relatively recently transported a VAX 9000 > > to the US for something in the region of $3000. The VAX 9000 > > weighs more than 400lbs but it probably went via container ship > > rather than air-freight. > >It generally costs in the area of US$3,000 to ship a 40ft container from >the west coast of the US to Europe. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From bqt at update.uu.se Wed Feb 26 12:22:01 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #482 - 53 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030226180000.79291.98345.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 Frank Arnold wrote: > cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 25.02.2003: > >From: > >To: > >Subject: Help with my PDP 11/73 > >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:36:31 -0800 > > > >I have gotten my PDP 11/73 to > >start up and go through an initialization > >script for RSX-11Mplus. However, I do not > >know any uids/passwords, so I cannot > >login; I can only watch the script go by. > >I am able, while the script is running, to break > >into MCR and run commands like PDP and DMP. > >I am able to dump in octal > >some of the files like [0,0]001054.DIR;1. > >Does anyone know where the user names/passwords > >are stored? My memory says that the maybe > >they are not encrypted? Is that so? > > The passwords are stored in a file [0,0]RSX11M.sys if I recall it correctley. > Should be a rather small file, just pip it to the printer to see it, it should > be an ASCII-file. > I think that after version 3.2 of rsx11m passwords were encripted, before that, > in plain text. Copy this file to some other media and delete it from your > system disk, After a new cold start you should have an open system. with RUN > $ACNT you can create new user-accounts if you desire. This should probably be in an FAQ for RSX. 1. The passwords along with all account information is stored in LB:[0,0]RSX11.SYS 2. The file is not an ASCII file. 3. Passwords in RSX11M are not encrypted, while passwords in RSX11M+ are. 4. (and this is the important one) to break into an RSX system: When the system boots, abort the startup script. (If it asks for the time, press ^Z, if it just runs ahead, press ^C and type ABO AT. (the period is *not* optional)). Run $ACNT, which is the account managing program. Change password for a system account (anything with a group number <= 10) Reboot, and then log in. A small explanation: When the system boots, the console terminal is privileged. The startup script normally finished by logging out the console. If you stop it before that, you'll remain logged in at a privileged terminal. This can be regarded as a security problem. Normally it wasn't, since people are not supposed to have access to the console terminal of a computer. It's locked away inside the computer hall. If you want to, you can protect yourself against this exploit, but noone does. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From bpechter at monmouth.com Wed Feb 26 12:31:00 2003 From: bpechter at monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #482 - 53 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030226180000.79291.98345.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030226180000.79291.98345.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E5D0716.8030007@monmouth.com> cctalk-request@classiccmp.org wrote: > >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:46:22 -0600 >From: Jeffrey Sharp >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: OT: FreeBSD (was: "Real Computers") >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Well, here's my OT post for the month. > >On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > >>I'll try FreeBSD when I've got a spare few hours to download the ISO >>image. >> >> > >You might find it easier to install by FTP. It's simple: download two floppy >disk images, dd 'em to some 3.5s, and reboot. Then install as normal, except >choose FTP as the install media. It isn't lightning-fast, but you also only >download the data that you need instead of an entire ISO. > >ObClassicCmp: FreeBSD makes a great OS for running classic computing tools >like SIMH. > > > >>Slackware is quite stable, probably because Slackware have a "We're not >>going to hack the Kernel, nor are we going to use any fancy packaging >>systems or init scripts". >> >> > >I've heard many people say that Slackware is the most BSD-like of the >Linuces. Of course, that was on Slashdot, so it must be true. > > I'd recommend going with 4.7 rather than 5.0 since the 5.0 is pretty much the developer relese for the folks working on the non-stable version... Anyone who gets the Simh VAX emulator to use ethernet on FreeBSD will have my undying gratitude. There's going to be a 4.8 soon (my box auto-builds weekly from the 4.x-STABLE tree and now is calling itself 4.8-PRERELEASE.) Bill From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 26 12:37:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Anyone have Chips & Technologies Super386 documentation? Message-ID: I need some manuals for the Chips & Technologies Super386 chipset for a client. I am aware of the Programmer's Reference Manual from a web site of the company that produced it, but I have not found any title for the hardware reference. Either would do, the hardware manual would be preferable. Anyone have the manual(s), or at least a title? Any dated reference would be good. This is for a client so there will be money involved if you find it for me ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 26 12:39:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <000401c2ddbe$93813b40$0100a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: The stock disk controller in the TRS-80 model 3 and 4 will NOT support the 500K bits per second data transfer rate needed for running 8" drives, NOR 1.2M 5.25", NOR 1.4M 3.5". It CAN do 720K 3.5" (250K data transfer rate) If you "HAVE TO" do 1.2M, there was once a "special" drive from Weltec that spun at 150RPM, so that it could do 1.2M with PC and XT FDC boards that only had 250K data transfer rate. OR, you could get an after-market disk controller that supports 8", etc. On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > That 1.2mb drive might actually work. I've used both 1.44 3.5" and > 1.2mb 5.25" drives on my (Now Kurt's) ATR8000. Some of these drives can > be jumpered to emulate 77 track 8" floppy drives. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Patrick Finnegan > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:38 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested > > I recently picked up a TRS-80 model 4, that seems to have problems with > its floppy drives. From Vincent.Fontaine at alcatel.be Wed Feb 26 13:22:15 2003 From: Vincent.Fontaine at alcatel.be (Vincent Fontaine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: HP 16C References: Message-ID: <3E5C77A4.5AFE91D1@alcatel.be> What do you mean by "there" ? V. vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > There' > > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Vincent Fontaine wrote: > > > Hi Brian, > > > > I have seen on this site http://www.classiccmp.org/ > > that you are looking for a HP 16C. > > > > If you wish, I can send you a PC emulator of HP 16C. > > > > Regards, Vincent. From stuart at stuartsjohnsonfamily.net Wed Feb 26 13:23:55 2003 From: stuart at stuartsjohnsonfamily.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 Message-ID: <09a501c2dda5$d6eaa740$0200a8c0@cosmo> I noticed an auction on eBay for a KZQSA-SA SCSI controller and I was wondering (silly me) if it could be used with RT-11. I know that RT-11 is much older than this board, but I was hoping someone had written a driver for it. If the KZQSA isn't compatible, I'm open to suggestions as to what SCSI QBUS board to get to use in an 11/53 (similar to the machine described on Johnathan Engdahl's site), and if known, where I might get such, hopefully at a decent price - not $799 like on eBay! Thanks, Stuart Johnson From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Wed Feb 26 13:25:01 2003 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <165101836.20030225213155@subatomix.com> References: <029401c2dd44$fe48be50$300add40@oemcomputer> <165101836.20030225213155@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E5D12BA.90702@dragonsweb.org> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, Keys wrote: > >>Someone paid over $500 dollars for it??????????? I have two maybe three of >>them and never paid over $5 for any of them. >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3402403400 > > > Those are 99/4s, *not* 99/4As. I believe the 4s are more rare than the 4As. > Back when I was selling stuff on eBay, I had three, and each sold for over > $100 IIRC. Don't take what I say as fact, though. Other than playing > cartridge games on one when I was a kid, I don't know anything about TI-99s. > I have a pile of 4A's, but only one /4. They were scarce even in '83 when I got my 1st 4A. People were unhappy with the "chiclet" keyboard, and TI supposedly ate most of them as returns to get the 4A's on the shelf. There was a project apparently to use the logic boards and other components in the guise of the TI Insight 10 terminal, which was not a big seller because, like the TI-99, it had only a 40-column display.. I say apparently because there are pictures of what looks like a heavily breathed-on /4 that served as a prototype for the Insight, at the Smithsonian site. http://smithsonianchips.si.edu/texas/ti-thumbnails/pages/NMAH2000-07541.htm (Pic of Insight 10 here: http://smithsonianchips.si.edu/texas/ti-thumbnails/pages/NMAH2000-07537.htm) I don't have an Insight 10, never ever even saw one, but I have been contacted by a party who has one of the prototypes and assures me it was a modded 99/4.(different roms, modified case, goosenecked display, modem board, beefed up ps, etc.) The photos above are not inconsistent with the premise, anyway. If any of the TI people listed as donors on the Smithsonian page are still around, they'd know, obviously. Meantime, anyone comes across an Insight 10 they don't want, give me a holler, please. jbdigriz From avickers at solutionengineers.com Wed Feb 26 13:34:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: HP1000 F & A700 - pictures In-Reply-To: References: <000301c2dd1b$b5f40980$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030226192833.01ad1dc8@slave> At 16:17 26/02/2003, you wrote: >On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > I know a reseller who relatively recently transported a VAX 9000 > > to the US for something in the region of $3000. The VAX 9000 > > weighs more than 400lbs but it probably went via container ship > > rather than air-freight. > >It generally costs in the area of US$3,000 to ship a 40ft container from >the west coast of the US to Europe. Hmm, too much for my miniscule budget then. Ah well. Then again, one of these days I plan to export a car from the 'States; maybe I can combine the car & some vintage comp kit to reduce the overall cost... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 26 14:05:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1813.4.20.168.191.1046289727.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote: > So this begs the question, No, it suggests the question. "Begging the question" means making an argument depending on circular reasoning. The Skeptic's Dictionary is one of many web sites explaining this: http://skepdic.com/begging.html > why did the PDP-8 create the "mini-computer" > class and not this or other machines with similar attributes? Because there were no other machines at the same time with similar atrributes at a similar price. However, many people consider the PDP-1 to be the first minicomputer, and it had even more improvement in price/performance ratio over its competitors than the PDP-8 had. From fm.arnold at gmx.net Wed Feb 26 14:40:01 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Available: various DEC monitors In-Reply-To: <20030226180000.79291.92951.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030226180000.79291.92951.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 26.02.2003: > >--------------------- >Message: 11 >Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:23:21 +0100 (CET) >From: "Fred N. van Kempen" >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Available: various DEC monitors >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >All, > >Available as of right now, various DEC color monitors of >the 19" and heavy kind. VR and VRT series. Obviously >for pickup only, in the Hilversum-Amsterdam area in >The Netherlands. > >What's left by next week will be scrapped - I need the >space for machines. > >Cheers, > Fred >--------------------- > Hallo Fred, Ik zoek een of twee VRT17-HA/H4 of VRC21-HA/H4 (72Hz-refresh) voor mijn DEC3000 systemen, heb je zoiets? Zoja, kan ik het bijvoorbeeld zaterdag ophalen, ik rij morgen naar Nederland. Wat anders, heb je al faciliteiten om manuals te scannen? Ik heb wel het een en ander bij te dragen, maar zonder automatische papier-feeder op de scanner word je gek. Ik kan evtl. wel het een en ander meebrengen. Er zijn intussen heel wat websites met dokumentatie. Ken jij een algemene lijst die verteld welk dokument reeds gescant is, en waar zich dit bevind? Of wou jij juist zoiets gaan samenstellen? Ok, ik hoor het wel, groet, Frank PS een mailaccout op www.pdp11.nl is heel erg cool.... From fm.arnold at gmx.net Wed Feb 26 14:43:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Available: various DEC monitors In-Reply-To: <20030226180000.79291.92951.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030226180000.79291.92951.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 26.02.2003: > Oh boy, thatone previously was supposed to go privat... one thousand sorries to all of you. Frank From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 26 14:53:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: <1813.4.20.168.191.1046289727.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Sellam wrote: > > So this begs the question, > > No, it suggests the question. "Begging the question" means making > an argument depending on circular reasoning. The Skeptic's Dictionary > is one of many web sites explaining this: > http://skepdic.com/begging.html This is the second English lesson I've received this week (the other was regarding the use of the word "abhor"). Thanks! ;) > > why did the PDP-8 create the "mini-computer" > > class and not this or other machines with similar attributes? > > Because there were no other machines at the same time with similar > atrributes at a similar price. Do you mean transistorized, running off 110 line voltage, requiring no additional cooling, and having comparable computing power? If so, what sort of computing power did the Monrobot XI have? I read in the article recently pointed out that is published on the web that it could do 5,000 calculations per second. > However, many people consider the PDP-1 to be the first minicomputer, > and it had even more improvement in price/performance ratio over its > competitors than the PDP-8 had. The general consensus that I am aware of is that the PDP-8 created the "minicomputer" class. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 26 15:06:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: References: <1813.4.20.168.191.1046289727.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <2065.4.20.168.191.1046293338.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote: > If so, what sort of computing power did the Monrobot XI have? I read in > the article recently pointed out that is published on the web that it > could do 5,000 calculations per second. The PDP-8 does closer to a million calculations per second. I abhor getting English lessons on cctalk. :-) From acme at ao.net Wed Feb 26 15:39:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay Message-ID: <200302262135.QAA10286@eola.ao.net> From: Erik S. Klein Date: 02/26/2003 11:23 AM > TeoZ Said: > > " The Timex 2068 was released in 82 or 83 when the Vic20/c64 had proper > keyboards." > [snip] > all "Q"s. It seems that Commodore had to rush to get their Christmas > orders filled and they ended up cutting a few corners. > The C64 and TS 2068 were both released that Xmas season, and Timex Sinclair lore has it that the Timex machine was initially called the TS2064, but when Commodore announced the C64, the 2064 was changed to 2068 in order to sound bigger and more powerful :>) Later -- Glen 0/0 From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Feb 26 15:46:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Cromemco 68k System 100 on eBay Message-ID: <200302262142.h1QLg7g27194@io.crash.com> Looks like most of a 68k-based Cromemco on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403398810&category=1479 I hadn't realized anyone had put a 68020 on the S-100 bus, or is that just a 680[01]0 in a PGA? Looks like I could find out if I could get to this page: www.dantiques.com/computers/cromemco/100300.htm But my ISP has a routing problem that prevents me from reaching them. I've used the Google cache, but that doesn't get me the pictures. Oh well, maybe by next week this'll be fixed... No connection to the seller, just curious. And still looking for a job, or I'd consider bidding on this thing. --Steve. From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Feb 26 15:58:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay References: <200302262135.QAA10286@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <000801c2dde1$330a7a60$0400fea9@game> Too bad Timex dropped out of the computer buisiness, I liked the 2068. Still the C64 owned the game market and I ended up getting one a few years later. At least I learned to program on the 2068 since I had only a few titles for it. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: RE: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay > From: Erik S. Klein > Date: 02/26/2003 11:23 AM > > > TeoZ Said: > > > > " The Timex 2068 was released in 82 or 83 when the Vic20/c64 had proper > > keyboards." > > > [snip] > > > all "Q"s. It seems that Commodore had to rush to get their Christmas > > orders filled and they ended up cutting a few corners. > > > The C64 and TS 2068 were both released that Xmas season, and Timex Sinclair > lore has it that the Timex machine was initially called the TS2064, but when > Commodore announced the C64, the 2064 was changed to 2068 in order to sound > bigger and more powerful :>) > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Feb 26 16:05:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available References: <1813.4.20.168.191.1046289727.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <2065.4.20.168.191.1046293338.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E5D38A2.7000308@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Smith wrote: > The PDP-8 does closer to a million calculations per second. While Operate and Jump instructions require 1 memory cycle, most intructions require two memory cycles.Indirect is a extra cycle. Asuming about a 1.5 us memory cycle and two cycle intructions that is 3.0 us per instruction or 333,000 instructions per second. Still quite fast. Ben. From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Feb 26 16:08:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 Message-ID: <1e8.3095c42.2b8e9405@aol.com> In a message dated 2/26/03 7:21:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > Correct, XEROX made a model 8/16 that had two CPUs, one 8 bit and 16 bit. I > THINK one was a Z-80 and the other was a 8086 but I'm not sure any more. I > used to have the docs for an 8/16 and I've been looking for one but haven't > managed to find one yet. > > Xerox made a couple of 8/16s. I have one of the 8086 second CPU boards for my Xerox 820-II. I was going to install it till a house fire melted the 820. The original 820 came with dual 8" floppies or an 8" floppy and an 8" harddrive and ran CPM. It was a spendy little computer for its time. Then they fit Dual 5 1/4" floppies in an external case, came out with a low profile keyboard and the add on 8086 Board. They called it the Xerox 820II-8/16. IIRC the design was taken from the Z80 Big Board which was a popular kit at the time. It was mounted flat, underneath the CRT and looked much like a terminal. At the time the IBM PC came out the Xerox design was hopelessly outdated. They redesigned the case to a rectangular shape with a separate monitor ala the IBM PC. They used dual 5 1/2" half height floppies oriented horizontally. I never saw an actual one but IIRC they used the same Big Board coupled with the 8086 board that was in the 820 and sold it as the Xerox 8/16. It ran CPM, CPM-86 and MS-DOS ( IIRC to 2.11). However it was not IBM Compatible, and did not have IBM graphics. By the time it was ready the bottom had fallen out of the crossover market. I don't think Xerox sold any commercially. A liquidation company sold the remainder for about three years. I doubt they sold many, I bet most were scrapped for the drives. The Xerox 820 II was my second computer system and still one of my favorites. (The first was State Surplus Litton 1251 that I bought for $25.00) I have had almost all of the various models of the 820 go through my hands over the years. Besides my original melted one I still have another packed away with all it's SW. Someday it will run again. Paxton Astoria, OR From allain at panix.com Wed Feb 26 16:10:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available References: Message-ID: <002b01c2dde3$1673d5c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I read in the article recently pointed out that is published > on the web that it could do 5,000 calculations per second. per Minute! Divide by 60. Slow Man, Slooow! I wonder what its machine language was like. Could they've gotten by on something like less than 10 instructions (set,+,-,if>,if=,goto,print) This was a tiny beast, for its age. John A. From dbwood at kc.rr.com Wed Feb 26 16:24:01 2003 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Anyone have Chips & Technologies Super386 documentation? References: Message-ID: <0db501c2dde5$3d60d280$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Call or email Intel. They own C&T now. The datasheet is not on their web site nor is it in any of my C&T/Intel CD-ROMs. Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 12:29 PM Subject: Anyone have Chips & Technologies Super386 documentation? > I need some manuals for the Chips & Technologies Super386 chipset for a > client. I am aware of the Programmer's Reference Manual from a web site > of the company that produced it, but I have not found any title for the > hardware reference. Either would do, the hardware manual would be > preferable. > > Anyone have the manual(s), or at least a title? Any dated reference would > be good. > > This is for a client so there will be money involved if you find it for me > ;) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Feb 26 16:29:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: Cromemco 68k System 100 on eBay Message-ID: <16a.1b3eaf33.2b8e98f4@aol.com> In a message dated 2/26/03 1:46:26 PM Pacific Standard Time, classiccmp@crash.com writes: > I hadn't realized anyone had put a 68020 on the S-100 bus, or is that just > a 680[01]0 in a PGA? Yes, They made a 68020 and that system appears to be one. I had a similar System One in a wood cabinet that came with the 68020 CPU, 2 2meg memory cards and some custom video cards. It came with the docs. All S100. I have since passed it on to another collector from the list. It is interesting to note that the one I passed on and this one in the auction are both located in Washington State. They must have had a good Cromemco dealer there. They are not the same System Ones. Cabinets are different. It is a nice system. Paxton Astoria, OR PS No connection with the seller... From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Feb 26 16:31:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:23 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 In-Reply-To: <09a501c2dda5$d6eaa740$0200a8c0@cosmo>; from stuart@stuartsjohnsonfamily.net on Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 15:46:26 CET References: <09a501c2dda5$d6eaa740$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <20030226232026.G41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.26 15:46 Stuart Johnson wrote: > I noticed an auction on eBay for a KZQSA-SA SCSI controller and I was > wondering (silly me) if it could be used with RT-11. AFAIK the KZQSA was intended as a tape only adapter for the later VAX 4000 QBus machines. It needs special drivers, it does no MSCP emulation like e.g. a Dilog SQ706. So you would need new drivers for RT-11. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Feb 26 16:45:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: WTD: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC Message-ID: <006801c2dde8$75dc05a0$0100000a@milkyway> Hi all, I'm trying to track down a 387 math coprocessor IC for an old 386-based Linux box that's going to be doing a bit of numbercrunching for me. Has anyone here got an AMD or Intel (AMD preferred) 387 coprocessor rated at 40MHz (-40 part number suffix) that would work correctly with an AMD Am386DX-40? No, before you ask, the 386DX does *not* have a built in mathco - the 486DX was (IIRC) the first DX-series chip with a built-in coprocessor. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From red at bears.org Wed Feb 26 16:46:11 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <02d301c2ddb1$3d979790$46f8b8ce@impac.com> References: <02d301c2ddb1$3d979790$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Submitted for your entertainment. Those are _awesome_ stories. Thanks for reminding me why I subscribe to this list. ok bear From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Feb 26 16:50:01 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: PCjr In-Reply-To: <16a.1b3eaf33.2b8e98f4@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030226174611.00b63ec8@pop-server> If anybody is interested, contact the writer direct: I have the above computer and would like to sell it , is there a market for it ?.(jrhicks313@aol.com). From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 26 16:52:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 In-Reply-To: <20030226232026.G41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at Feb 26, 2003 11:20:26 PM Message-ID: <200302262248.h1QMmMb24241@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I noticed an auction on eBay for a KZQSA-SA SCSI controller and I was > > wondering (silly me) if it could be used with RT-11. > AFAIK the KZQSA was intended as a tape only adapter for the later VAX > 4000 QBus machines. It needs special drivers, it does no MSCP emulation > like e.g. a Dilog SQ706. So you would need new drivers for RT-11. I *believe* that the only DEC Q-Bus adapter that RT-11 supports is the RQZX1 (as mentioned in the V5.7 SPD). Pretty much any 3rd party disk controller that does MSCP emulation (DU) should work. For tape you need TMSCP emulation (and V5.4 or higher). Zane From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 26 17:02:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: WTD: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC In-Reply-To: <006801c2dde8$75dc05a0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030226180442.3b1f9808@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:43 PM 2/26/03 -0000, you wrote: >Hi all, > I'm trying to track down a 387 math coprocessor IC for an old 386-based >Linux box that's going to be doing a bit of numbercrunching for me. Has >anyone here got an AMD or Intel (AMD preferred) 387 coprocessor rated at >40MHz 40 MHz? I didn't think they made them over 25 Mhz. I have a couple around here but I'll have to dig them out. However I'm pretty sure that they're 20 and 25 Mhz. Joe (-40 part number suffix) that would work correctly with an AMD >Am386DX-40? No, before you ask, the 386DX does *not* have a built in >mathco - the 486DX was (IIRC) the first DX-series chip with a built-in >coprocessor. > >Thanks. >-- >Phil. >philpem@dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 26 17:15:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: DataSaab ??? References: <200302262248.h1QMmMb24241@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3E5D49C1.8588D130@rain.org> At the last TRW Swapmeet, I picked up a Datasaab Mode 3422-6 something or other. It is about a foot square, has a keyboard at the top, a 4 x 6 matrix of unmarked keys on the lower left, and a numberic keypad at the lower right. At the top left is what looks to be the power switch, and there are two two-position key switches at the top right; the first labeled "K" and "O", and the second labeled "A", "O", and "B" (I know two positions, three labels.) It has one 15 pin female connector on the top side of the panel. I don't have a digital camera right now available to take pictures; anyone have any idea what this thing might be? From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 26 17:17:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Cost of shipping a container Message-ID: Sorry, I gave some wrong information regarding the cost to ship a container overseas. I said it's US$3,000 for a 40 footer. It's actually US$3,000 for a 20 footer from the west coast of the US to Europe. Not bad if you have a lot of scheisse to ship. Speaking of which, if anyone in Germany or beyond has something big in the US that they want to ship and can get it to Oakland, California, soon then let me know because Hans is shipping a bunch of stuff back to Germany but doesn't have enough to fill a container yet. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Feb 26 17:21:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > If so, what sort of computing power did the Monrobot XI have? I read in > the article recently pointed out that is published on the web that it > could do 5,000 calculations per second. In the article in the New Yorker, the Monrobot XI sales guy stated that, "It can do an average of five thousand arithmetical computations per minute." That would only be around 83 calculations per sec. More detailed specs are here: These numbers indicate it was capable of around 111 additions per second, 30 multiplications per second, and 2 divisions per second. -brian. From shirsch at adelphia.net Wed Feb 26 17:34:01 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Anyone have Chips & Technologies Super386 documentation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I need some manuals for the Chips & Technologies Super386 chipset for a > client. I am aware of the Programmer's Reference Manual from a web site > of the company that produced it, but I have not found any title for the > hardware reference. Either would do, the hardware manual would be > preferable. > > Anyone have the manual(s), or at least a title? Any dated reference would > be good. > Are you looking for docs on the chipset itself (registers, API, etc.) or the motherboard manual? I may have the latter. Steve From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Feb 26 17:36:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: WTD: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030226180442.3b1f9808@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > At 10:43 PM 2/26/03 -0000, you wrote: > > I'm trying to track down a 387 math coprocessor IC for an old 386-based > > Linux box that's going to be doing a bit of numbercrunching for me. Has > > anyone here got an AMD or Intel (AMD preferred) 387 coprocessor rated at > > 40MHz > > 40 MHz? I didn't think they made them over 25 Mhz. I have a couple > around here but I'll have to dig them out. However I'm pretty sure > that they're 20 and 25 Mhz. Back in the day, Intel made 386DX chips that ran up to 33MHz. AMD came out with a clone chip in the 1990-1991 time frame that was a 386DX that ran at 40MHz. I ran a 33MHz rated ITT 387 clone mathco in mine without problems. IIRC, the ITT mathco didn't perform quite as well as a real Intel one, but it was better than not having anything. I know Intel still has a rather large 80386 embedded processor market, so I'd not be surprised if they're making much faster versions of it now. ... But apparently they aren't: -brian. From hansp at aconit.org Wed Feb 26 17:37:06 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available References: Message-ID: <3E5D4EA2.5080309@aconit.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > The general consensus that I am aware of is that the PDP-8 created the > "minicomputer" class. Perhaps putting the cart before the horse, but I think the reason the -8 is considerd the first "minicomputer" is the sheer number sold. As has already been mentioned similar machines existed before with somehat similar performance or price points but the -8 realy caught on and that is what is remembered. Who can recall the story of the coining of the term "minicomputer"? Here in France we had a machine very similar to the Monrobot XI, it was called the CAB 500. Just the other day I was talking to someone who, for his PhD thesis project, interfaced that machine to a physics experiment. The CAB 500 was a drum based machine, and very interesting. It had a language called PAF which is extremely reminiscient of BASIC despite being some 5 years earlier. Unlike BASIC, PAF was designed so that its key words could be easily changed to different languages and on the fly during one progam, a feature I have not seen in any other language. For french reading members see : http://www.aconit.org/hbp/CAB500 we are continuing to develop that site as new information appears. -- hbp From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Feb 26 18:06:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Cost of shipping a container Message-ID: <180.16f4af2e.2b8eaf97@aol.com> In a message dated 2/26/03 3:20:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, vcf@siconic.com writes: > > I said it's US$3,000 for a 40 footer. It's actually US$3,000 for a 20 > footer from the west coast of the US to Europe. It was about $5000 to ship a 40 foot container of scrap from the Pacific NW (Tacoma was the cheapest IIRC) to Taiwan or Indonesia when we were doing that in the mid 90s. We had to make sure there was more than 45,000 pounds in it, that was the break even point for shipping. > > Speaking of which, if anyone in Germany or beyond has something big in the > US that they want to ship and can get it to Oakland, California, soon then > let me know because Hans is shipping a bunch of stuff back to Germany but > doesn't have enough to fill a container yet. > What a great way to get something heavy to Europe. Paxton Astoria, OR From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 26 18:11:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Feb 25, 3 10:38:15 pm Message-ID: > I recently picked up a TRS-80 model 4, that seems to have problems with > its floppy drives. > > The machine is a base Model 4 with 64KB of ram (I think - haven't yet > taken the EMF shield off the mainboard), and no peripherals attached. > When I powered it up the first time, with or without a disk in the > (bottom) drive, it displayed "Cass?" on the screen, and then I could press > enter to that and the "Memory size?" prompt, and get a basic prompt. I beleive that means it can't find a disk controller, so it assumes you have a cassette-only system. Try re-seating the 'ribbon cable' between the CPU board and the disk controller PCB _at both ends_. I would estimate that over 50% or disk problems on M3s and M4s come from this cable! > Also, the disk I used was supposed to be a TRS-DOS (bootable) disk, but > it's possible that they've gone bad after so many years. Are the disks on > the Model 4 recorded so that I can read them on a PC (IE 48/96tpi MFM, > compatible with the NEC D765)? I'd like to know if I can make backup > images and/or see if the disks work on another machine. Mostly. It is standard MFM encoding (well, the TRS-80 can do FM (single density) too, but the M3 and M4 at least expect the boot sector to be double desnisty, and the standard OSes use double density (MFM) encoding for the entire disk. The original drives are 40 cylinder SS units. The controller will support DS and 80 cylinder drives, and many people fitted at least one of those as an upgrade. There is one possible problem with reading M3/M4 disks on a PC. The TRS-80s used the Western Digital controller which can read a sector closer to the index pulse than the NEC controller used in PCs (this is a simplification, but it should do for the moment). Some PC disk controllers can't read the first physical sector after the index hole on a TRS-80 disk. When I was transferring LSDOS 6.3.1 from disk images on the PC to real disks I found I had to format the disks on the PC, not on the TRS-80 to avoid this problem. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 26 18:12:11 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <004b01c2dd4d$13868b00$0400fea9@game> from "TeoZ" at Feb 25, 3 11:11:02 pm Message-ID: > Its funny to me how a computer with a crappy keyboard like that model is > worth so much more then the better later version with a proper keyboard. The This is what separates hackers from stamp collectors. The latter what the rare machines, no matter how unusable they might be. The former want machines they can actually use. No prizes for guessing what category I fit into :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 26 18:14:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030226084216.0fff0048@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Feb 26, 3 08:42:16 am Message-ID: > Hi pat, > > I too just picked up a model 4. I didn't get any disks but mine > says "Disk?" when I power it up. I opened it up and mine is a basic 64k > machine with two SS disk drives. The drives in mine are made by Texas > (somebody), Texas Peripherals maybe? I checked and they're 40 track SS The Texas Peripherals drives are _exact_ copies of Tandon drives (same schematics, same PCB layouts, same mechanical bits. I've swapped mechanical parts between Texas Peripherals and Tandon drives, and I use the repair info in the M3 manual for Tandon drives too... They almost certainly are the origianl drives. Or at least Texas Peripheral drives were used by Radio Shack... > drives. I believe these are the original disk drives for the M4 but I've > been told that they will support 80 track and DS drives. But I don't > know if you had to patch the BIOS and/or OS to do that. The bootstrap ROM (there's no real ROM BIOS in these machines) expects to boot from a single-sided disk in a 40 cylinder drive. Most people kept drive 0 as a 40 cylinder unit for this reason. To use DS or 80 cylinder drives you have type a couple of commands if you're using a sensible OS like TRS-DOS 6 (== LSDOS). If you're running one of the M3 OSes, then you might have to patch things.... -tony From alhartman at yahoo.com Wed Feb 26 18:32:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030226180000.79291.98345.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030227002908.40952.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> > From: Patrick Finnegan > > I recently picked up a TRS-80 model 4, that seems to > have problems with its floppy drives. > > > I tried swapping the floppy drives, and that time I > got a "Diskette?" prompt if there was no disk in > the drive, and pressing any keys didn't cause > anything to happen. If I put a disk in the > drive, the machine never displays anything, and > then after 10-20 seconds, the drive light goes out. > > I tried connecting only one drive at a time, with > the same results. If I connected a 1.2MB floppy > that I had laying around (a Teac FD-55GFR-149-U), > it did the same thing as if the drives were swapped. Ok, a quick primer about TRS-80's and Floppy drives: Unlike IBM Drives, TRS-80 drives are usually hard jumpered for specific positions (Not always, but internal drives are..) What most people in the PC world don't know is that floppy drives have an addressing scheme similar to Master/Slave jumpers on hard drives. They can be set to positions 0, 1 ,2 or 3. And the last drive in the chain needs to be terminated (like SCSI Drives). For external drives, the drives are set to all selects, and pins are pulled from the drive cable to determine what position they are in. If you notice on IBM Floppy drive cables, there is a twist between the A: and B: connector. That twist brings the select from the 0 drive to the 1 select pin. All IBM drives are set to position 1 (second position). I don't think a 1.2 mb FDD will work properly on a TRS-80 Model IV for two reasons. The 1.2mb drive is much more like an 8in drive than a 5.25in drive. And transfers data at a higher rate. Unless the drive can autoswitch to the slower 360k data rate, it won't work on the controller. And if you did get it to work, it has a different Tracks per inch capability than 360k / 180k drives. However, assuming your problem is with the floppy drives, and not the diskette you are trying to boot... A 360k XT Style floppy will work fine, and once you get it booted, a modern OS like Newdos 80, L-DOS, MultiDos, etc... Will allow you to use both sides of the drive for 360k storage. You can even use 720k 3.5 drives in the same way. I know for the Model I, LNW made a Disk Doubler Board that worked with 8in drives, and so would accomodate 1.2mb drives. I don't know if such a disk controller was ever made for the Model IV. If you have a PC with 360k Drive, you should be able to run a TRS-80 Emulator and use a disk image of an OS to make a bootable floppy in 180k or 360k format. Let me know if I can help you in any way with this. The Model I/III/IV was my first machine, and I'm pretty sure I can remember a lot of info regarding it. And I still have all my books and disks in my closet. Regards, Al Hartman http://www.geocities.com/alhartman Join the Macintosh Emulation List... http://www.topica.com/lists/Macemulist "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Feb 26 18:35:01 2003 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Multilingual programming (was Re: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available) In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 27 Feb 2003 00:32:50 +0100 . <3E5D4EA2.5080309@aconit.org> Message-ID: In message <3E5D4EA2.5080309@aconit.org>, Hans B Pufal writes: >Unlike BASIC, PAF was designed so that its >key words could be easily changed to different languages and on the fly >during one progam, a feature I have not seen in any other language. At the 1981 National Computer Conference (US), Grace Hopper told a story about the A0 compiler she and her collegues did on the UNIVAC. Part of the motivation for this program was to settle the question of whether a computer could write a program for itself. So the thing we now understand to be a programming language was made as close to a natural language as they were able to do at the time. Every statement consisted of a subject a verb and an object followed by a period. (You can probably begin to see how this work influenced the development of COBOL.) Anyway, to demonstrate the flexibility of this technique, they had both English and German versions. However, since it was a US military sponsored project and since it was rather soon after WWII, the German version caused a minor freak-out on the part of some of the military brass. It was quickly shoved in a corner and was lost in the mists of time. Brian L. Stuart From alhartman at yahoo.com Wed Feb 26 18:40:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay In-Reply-To: <20030226180000.79291.98345.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030227003713.34184.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> > From: "TeoZ" > > My first computer was a timex 2068 and learning to > program on chicklet keyboards sucks. But.. Those were pretty nice computers... Timex did make an incredible goof with those... Originally, it was intended to be an American Version of the 48k ZX-Spectrum Computer. But, as-is it wouldn't pass FCC regulations. So, they redesigned the computer to do so, and decided to "improve" it. Designing out most compatibility with the Spectrum in the process. With a set of Spectrum ROMS in a cartridge, and a "Twister" card (to convert the expansion edge back to the Spectrum version), one could use Spectrum Hardware and software on it. There were third party keyboards for it also, and when Sinclair was bought out, the company that bought it (I can't remember the name), made better versions of the Spectrum with built in Microdrives or Cassette Player, and a better keyboard. I have a U.S. Prototype of the Spectrum, a Microdrive interface and drive, and the Timex of Portugal 3inch Disk Drive System (which also turned it into a CP/M Computer). A nice computer for the time if you tricked it out a little. The company I worked for in the 80's even made a drawing program similar to MacPaint for it, called TechDraw, A Spectrum Emulator Cartridge, Disk System, Terminal Software (for the Timex Modem), and lots more... Also, fun days... I hope to spot one at a flea market to have one again. I still have my ZX-81 though. You can still get kits for the ZX-81, and some books and software from www.zebrasystems.com Regards, Al Hartman From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Feb 26 18:51:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC References: <006801c2dde8$75dc05a0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <00e001c2ddf9$ffe66680$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:43 PM Subject: WTD: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC > Hi all, > I'm trying to track down a 387 math coprocessor IC for an old 386-based > Linux box that's going to be doing a bit of numbercrunching for me. Has > anyone here got an AMD or Intel (AMD preferred) 387 coprocessor rated at > 40MHz (-40 part number suffix) that would work correctly with an AMD > Am386DX-40? No, before you ask, the 386DX does *not* have a built in > mathco - the 486DX was (IIRC) the first DX-series chip with a built-in > coprocessor. They come up on epay all the time, pick yer flavor. I just got a 40MHz Cyrix Fasmath chip for $2 (includes $1 shipping) a week ago. Supposedly clock for clock it's the fastest of the '387 FPUs, but IDK. Popped right in to to my P70. I'm still looking for a set of eight 2MB 72 pin IBM SIMMs with presence detect, and a Cyrix 486Drx2, which is a 486 with a '386 pinout, if anyone has a spare. > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. Bob From jss at subatomix.com Wed Feb 26 19:16:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: DataSaab ??? In-Reply-To: <3E5D49C1.8588D130@rain.org> References: <200302262248.h1QMmMb24241@shell1.aracnet.com> <3E5D49C1.8588D130@rain.org> Message-ID: <8714156.20030226191300@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > At the last TRW Swapmeet, I picked up a Datasaab Mode 3422-6 something or > other. ... anyone have any idea what this thing might be? A diagnostic tool that connects to a Saab vehicle? -- Jeffrey Sharp From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Feb 26 19:31:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Multilingual programming (was Re: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available) Message-ID: <200302270127.RAA21600@clulw009.amd.com> >From: blstuart@bellsouth.net > >In message <3E5D4EA2.5080309@aconit.org>, Hans B Pufal writes: >>Unlike BASIC, PAF was designed so that its >>key words could be easily changed to different languages and on the fly >>during one progam, a feature I have not seen in any other language. I thought I'd mentioned that it is not entirely true that no other computer language can be converted to another language. Not being a natural language, Forth, can easily be converted to any standard text type language and there has even been efforts to convert to Chinese( not text type ). Since Forth has its own rules on noun/verb/object order, the language that it uses is not important. This is unlike most languages because most use complex precedence rules( LISP being another exception ). One can not fully overload the + operation in languages like 'C' because it would end up looking like +( a, b ) instead of a + b. I know of at least one German Forth and work in progress on a Chinese Forth ( issues are mainly entering and displaying characters ). Both of these can be source files loaded from an English ( or other language ) Forth to completely change the Forth. One can even have both at the same time and switch back and forth. Heck, One might even have three languages or more to select from. One's imagination is the limit( and real memory). Dwight > >At the 1981 National Computer Conference (US), Grace Hopper told >a story about the A0 compiler she and her collegues did on the >UNIVAC. Part of the motivation for this program was to settle >the question of whether a computer could write a program for >itself. So the thing we now understand to be a programming >language was made as close to a natural language as they were >able to do at the time. Every statement consisted of a subject >a verb and an object followed by a period. (You can probably >begin to see how this work influenced the development of COBOL.) >Anyway, to demonstrate the flexibility of this technique, they >had both English and German versions. However, since it was a >US military sponsored project and since it was rather soon after >WWII, the German version caused a minor freak-out on the part of >some of the military brass. It was quickly shoved in a corner >and was lost in the mists of time. > >Brian L. Stuart From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Wed Feb 26 19:39:00 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 References: <09a501c2dda5$d6eaa740$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <006e01c2de00$8d9cb960$8a00a8c0@arctura> DON'T buy that KZQSA for your PDP-11. I made that mistake. I paid $45 for one on eBay. When I got it, behold, it would not work. I then looked high and looked low, but there are no drivers for this board for any PDP-11 OS. I even looked through the VAX NETBSD source code to see if I might want to port it, but I could not find it there either. It is my understanding that this board is supported only under VMS. What you want is an MSCP compatible board; the KZQSA is not. Fortunately someone with a VAX bought it off me for the same price I paid for it, so I was only out the shipping. I tested a Viking QDT with RT-11 and a 1 gig HD. Of course, I could only use the first 30 megs. This one is destined for a BSD machine anyhow. I got the QDT for $45 on eBay. Someone put it up with a buy-it-now of $45. Someone tipped me off, and I got there first. It pays to keep a sharp eye on eBay. I just bought a KDJ11-SD off eBay for $5. This is a nice one: rev -09 CPU, 18 MHz, 1.5 megs RAM. Other recent eBay steals: RQDX3 for $10, DESQA for $8.50. While you are waiting for your dream SCSI board to show up, there are two Maxtor XT1085 in that box lot that is on eBay right now. (The seller mistyped it as KT1085). This drive is physically identical to the RD54 externally. I have been able to use an XT1140 in place of an RD54, I think the XT1085 will work also. You have to hack ZRQCH0 or format it on an MV2000. Two of them would give you the same amount of storage as one RD54. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Johnson" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 > I noticed an auction on eBay for a KZQSA-SA SCSI controller and I was > wondering (silly me) if it could be used with RT-11. I know that RT-11 is much > older than this board, but I was hoping someone had written a driver for it. > > If the KZQSA isn't compatible, I'm open to suggestions as to what SCSI QBUS > board to get to use in an 11/53 (similar to the machine described on Johnathan > Engdahl's site), and if known, where I might get such, hopefully at a decent > price - not $799 like on eBay! > > Thanks, > Stuart Johnson From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 26 19:42:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030227002908.40952.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > For external drives, the drives are set to all > selects, and pins are pulled from the drive cable to > determine what position they are in. A minor complication with using DS drives, at least as external, . . . Didn't Radio Shack used pin 32 for drive select 3? Isn't that "side select"? > I don't think a 1.2 mb FDD will work properly on a > TRS-80 Model IV for two reasons. The 1.2mb drive is > much more like an 8in drive than a 5.25in drive. And > transfers data at a higher rate. > Unless the drive can autoswitch to the slower 360k > data rate, it won't work on the controller. The TRS-80 1,3,4 support a 125K bits per second data transfer rate for the FM single density model 1 diskettes The IBM PC,XT,AT and TRS-80 3,4, and "doubler" boards for model 1 (such as "Percom Doubler") support a 250K bits per second data transfer rate. The IBM AT supports a 500K bits per second data transfer rate for 1.2M and 1.4M. The IBM AT supports a 300K bits per second data transfer rate for 360K disks in 1.2M drives (spinning at 360 RPM. Weltec made a "special" 5.25" drive that spun at 180RPM, so that a PC or XT could do 1.2M with a 250K bits per second data transfer rate. (NOT RELIABLE) IFF the drive will switch to 300 RPM, (instead of 360RPM in 1.2M mode), then it might be possible to use it as a "regular" TRS-80 drive, or as an 80 track drive. If you want to use the 1.2M drive for 1.2M, then you MUST have a 500K bits per second data transfer rate, which you will not find on any disk controllers for the TRS-80 other than the ones intended for 8" drives. (or that ridiculous Weltec drive) > I know for the Model I, LNW made a Disk Doubler Board > that worked with 8in drives, and so would accomodate > 1.2mb drives. I don't know if such a disk controller > was ever made for the Model IV. yes I think that Micro Mainframes? made a bourd that could do external 8" drives with a 3 or 4. > The Model I/III/IV was my first machine, and I'm > pretty sure I can remember a lot of info regarding it. > And I still have all my books and disks in my closet. I didn't have a big enough closet :-( So all that I have left of my TRS-80 collection is a few books. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From melamy at earthlink.net Wed Feb 26 19:47:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: ISIS-II command summary? Message-ID: <26020357.63787@webbox.com> Hi all, I got my Intel MDS225 working today, but I only have a single double density drive on it. I seem to recall that it would read single density, but you accessed by a different drive specifier. I can't seem to find one bit of documentation on the ISIS command at home. Does anyone have a summary page they could scan and send? I am also looking for the 50 pin connection wiring so I can connect a drive externally. It was fun booting up ISIS-II version 4.2 and seeing the prompt come up. I also had a CP/M 2.2 version that booted perfectly! best regards, Steve Thatcher From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 26 19:49:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: DEC and Maxtor MFM drives (was Re: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11) In-Reply-To: <006e01c2de00$8d9cb960$8a00a8c0@arctura> References: <09a501c2dda5$d6eaa740$0200a8c0@cosmo> <006e01c2de00$8d9cb960$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <2564.4.20.168.191.1046310291.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Johathan Engdahl wrote: > I have been able to use an XT1140 in place of an RD54, Note that the XT1140 only has 918 cylinders, while the RD54 (a Maxtor XT2190) has 1224 cylinders. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 26 19:57:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: References: <20030227002908.40952.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2572.4.20.168.191.1046310857.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Fred Cisin wrote: > I think that Micro Mainframes? made a bourd that could do external 8" > drives with a 3 or 4. As did Apparat, and perhaps a few other companies. From dmabry at mich.com Wed Feb 26 20:01:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: ISIS-II command summary? References: <26020357.63787@webbox.com> Message-ID: <3E5D708B.2000403@mich.com> Oh boy! Hey Joe! Another one! Hi Steve, Welcome to the Intel Development System adiction. If you have a double density drive in your 225, that would normally mean you have the double density controller board set plugged into the Multibus and cabled internally to the built-in Shugart 801 drive. While the drive is capable of reading/writing single density, the double density boardset from Intel is NOT. For the MDS Intel only made single-density boardsets and double-density boardsets. There wasn't anything that Intel made, supported under ISIS-II, that could read both densities on one drive. It was possible to have both single and double density drives in one MDS, but they were separate drives and separate controllers. Check again on the external connector. I seem to remember it being 37 pin D-type connector. But I can check again. I have the documentation for what signals are where and can type them in, but I'm hoping that someone (Tony, Joe?) might already have that in a file. I can help you with software if you need anything for ISIS-II and/or CPM-80 for that machine. I have Kermit configured so that makes it easy to transfer files to/from a PC and then send them in e-mails. Let me know what you might want. Dave Steve Thatcher wrote: > Hi all, I got my Intel MDS225 working today, but I only have > a single double density drive on it. I seem to recall that it > would read single density, but you accessed by a different drive > specifier. I can't seem to find one bit of documentation on the > ISIS command at home. Does anyone have a summary page they could > scan and send? > > I am also looking for the 50 pin connection wiring so I can connect > a drive externally. > > It was fun booting up ISIS-II version 4.2 and seeing the prompt > come up. I also had a CP/M 2.2 version that booted perfectly! > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 26 20:02:07 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: ISIS-II command summary? In-Reply-To: <26020357.63787@webbox.com> References: <26020357.63787@webbox.com> Message-ID: <2576.4.20.168.191.1046311092.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Steve Thatcher wrote: > Hi all, I got my Intel MDS225 working today, but I only have > a single double density drive on it. I seem to recall that it > would read single density, but you accessed by a different drive > specifier. Nope. The Intel double-density (M2FM) controller can't read single-density (FM) disks, nor industry standard double-density (MFM) disks. The double-density controller is a two-board set that plugs into a pair of consecutive Multibus slots, with a special jumper module connecting the P2 connectors of the two cards. The MDS has a single-density controller using the 8271 chip built into the I/O card. If you need to read or write single-density disks, you could probably cable your drive over to the single-density controller. Of course, then it won't read or write double-density disks. From root at parse.com Wed Feb 26 20:20:00 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Collectors List In-Reply-To: <3E5C0CD0.32225.50A257D@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 26, 2003 12:39:44 AM Message-ID: <200302261908.OAA02653@parse.com> Lawrence Walker sez... > > I sat on this a bit gritting my teeth but I can't let it pass. > > I was involved with this individual in setting up Toronto > Computer Collectors Club and he agreed to take part by > doing the site coding and putting the site in his name with > some contributions from others including myself, who > expended considerable effort in getting it going. > > He then used the site to gobble up any computer > contributions in the name of TC3. He likely has the > largest collections of Hyperion artifacts in NA due > to the gullibility of well-meaning contributers of collections > to TC3. One of whom mentioned it would take a couple > of carloads for equipment and documentation. > > Following the diclosure of this, TC3, which I had played > the main role of organising in order to have a center for > local Toronto computer collectors to get together broke > up. > I would advise collectors to stay clear of this guy since > based on my experience he would only use your > enthusiasm for classic computers to his own advantage. Much as I appreciate the head's up, I don't see how this is the state of affairs today. I listed my interests on his website. It has *my* email address. How can he "gobble up" contributions going to me??? Cheers, > > Lawrence > > On 23 Feb 2003, , Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > Several years ago I set up a list of collectors on the TC3 > > site, which some of you may remember. Subsequent to that > > site being shut down by its host, I moved the list to my > > personal site at the following url: > > > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ > > > > The collector's list is reached from a link on the main page > > and resides at this url : > > > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collecto > > rs.htm > > > > The reason for this message is to request that anyone who is > > on this list, contact me HERE : > > > > antiquecomputers@hotmail.com > > > > to update their information. I have recently sent out an > > email to all person on the list, but find that almost > > everyone has moved ... email address anyway. If anyone > > reading this wishes to be put on the list, I would be glad > > to add their name and information, just be sure to format it > > the same way it is on the list. > > > > (None of this benefits me in any way, if anyone is > > wondering. However, since I receive email almost every day > > originating from my site, it is a constant source of > > information and resources for me. When someone has a > > computer for sale or donation, they frequently email me and > > I refer them back to the site to see if there is a collector > > near them. Most, of course, are from the states and many, > > many of the requests are for good homes for donated > > computers.) > > > > PLEASE don't contact me through the list, use > > antiquecomputers@hotmail.com only. I will repost this a > > couple more times, unless someone really finds it useless. > > > lgwalker@ mts.net > -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From wpfulmor at dimensional.com Wed Feb 26 20:21:35 2003 From: wpfulmor at dimensional.com (William Fulmor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: DEC and Maxtor MFM drives (was Re: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11) In-Reply-To: <2564.4.20.168.191.1046310291.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Johathan Engdahl wrote: > > I have been able to use an XT1140 in place of an RD54, > > Note that the XT1140 only has 918 cylinders, while the RD54 (a > Maxtor XT2190) has 1224 cylinders. Yeah, but net.wisdom sez you can format an xt1140 to the same specs as an xt2190. I haven't had need to do it -- yet. Bill From edgosch at advanced-energy-conv.com Wed Feb 26 20:31:11 2003 From: edgosch at advanced-energy-conv.com (Ed Gosch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Two (NEW) LA36 Decawritter II's for sale Message-ID: If anyone is interested. I have two brand new LA36 Decawritter II's for sale. I personally took these off their shipping pallets sometime in the late 70's or early 80's. They look absolutely new. Original test printout and manuals are still with them. They have been stored covered all this time. Ed Albany, NY w2uv@arrl.net From dstalnaker at mindspring.com Wed Feb 26 20:32:23 2003 From: dstalnaker at mindspring.com (Debbie Stalnaker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Datapoint MiniComputer Message-ID: Hi, I am looking for a Datapoint Mini computer from around the 1980-1983 timeframe. Any chance you have one or know of anyone else I might try? Thanks, Debbie From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 26 20:33:36 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Multilingual programming (was Re: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available) In-Reply-To: <200302270127.RAA21600@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I thought I'd mentioned that it is not entirely true that > no other computer language can be converted to another language. > Not being a natural language, Forth, can easily be converted > to any standard text type language and there has even been > efforts to convert to Chinese( not text type ). Since Forth > has its own rules on noun/verb/object order, the language > that it uses is not important. I have seen a Chinese version of COBOL, and a Japanese version of Forth, although it might not have ever been commercially available outside of the large Japanese electronics company that used it in-house. The extensibility and "postfix" syntax of Forth make it especially suitable for Japanese. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 26 20:36:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan Engdahl" at Feb 26, 2003 08:35:47 PM Message-ID: <200302270217.h1R2HvX01602@shell1.aracnet.com> > I tested a Viking QDT with RT-11 and a 1 gig HD. Of course, I could only use > the first 30 megs. This one is destined for a BSD machine anyhow. The Viking QDT and RT-11 can address a lot more of a HD than 30Mb. For example V5.3 supports 8 partitions (8 * 30 = 240MB), newer versions support more. I can't remember off the top of my head how much as I'm running a newer version, but I'm using 100Mb and 200Mb HD's under RT-11. The QDT is a great board, on my /73 I've got a Plextor 8x CD-ROM, DEC TLZ06, and two PC Removable disk trays (for easy swapping of HD's) hooked to one. I've successfully run RT-11, RSX-11M, RSX-11M+, and RSTS/E on this setup. I was originally using 100MB and 200MB SCSI disks, I now use 2GB 7200RPM Seagate Barracuda's. > I got the QDT for $45 on eBay. Someone put it up with a buy-it-now of $45. > Someone tipped me off, and I got there first. It pays to keep a sharp eye on > eBay. I just bought a KDJ11-SD off eBay for $5. This is a nice one: rev -09 > CPU, 18 MHz, 1.5 megs RAM. Other recent eBay steals: RQDX3 for $10, DESQA > for $8.50. Nice, it shows I've not been keeping a close enough eye on eBay. Zane From classiccmp at vulcanjedi.com Wed Feb 26 20:37:47 2003 From: classiccmp at vulcanjedi.com (Vulcanjedi Classic) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Commodore and PET computers in the Philadelphia area. In-Reply-To: <20030227020100.84619.73032.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Greetings Programs. The time has come to unload the few CBM and PET machines I forced them to save. There is a Philadelphia PA USA area project that takes donated computers and fixes them up for needy families. In the process we have collected some "old computer stuff" Beyond the 700 old 386 computers I talked them in to throwing out they still have some other oldies tucked away. There are several CBM and PET computers as well as Apple + bell and howell black apples and some TI peripheral expansion units waiting for someone to take them away and make a donation to the project. Please see our website for details on the project. www.teamchildren.com and please direct any email relating to this offer to childrensproject@go.com and if you are anywhere near the Philadelphia area you might want to stop by to take a look around. My 4 year volunteering with the project has put PILES of classic stuff in my basement. Please check out the website. Take a trip with a Uhaul if you want a few hundred 486's :) end of line. From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed Feb 26 20:38:58 2003 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Collectors List References: <3E5C0CD0.32225.50A257D@localhost> Message-ID: <004501c2de07$08964b80$0400a8c0@look.ca> Interesting take on history. Out of the original T3C, Colan and I still interact while you have started spats with both of us. As for my using the T3C site for my own purposes, I'm mystified as to why you recently forwarded an offer of a donation to me. It wasn't a Hyperion, mind you, but, as you say, I have enough of them anyway. You're entitled to your own opinion, of course. Don't really see how listing names of collectors all over the world is going to benefit me but maybe if I squint my eyes and look through a glass of cheap wine, I might see what you see. You can flame away, Larry. This is it for me on this topic. Cheers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 1:39 AM Subject: Re: Collectors List > I sat on this a bit gritting my teeth but I can't let it pass. > > I was involved with this individual in setting up Toronto > Computer Collectors Club and he agreed to take part by > doing the site coding and putting the site in his name with > some contributions from others including myself, who > expended considerable effort in getting it going. > > He then used the site to gobble up any computer > contributions in the name of TC3. He likely has the > largest collections of Hyperion artifacts in NA due > to the gullibility of well-meaning contributers of collections > to TC3. One of whom mentioned it would take a couple > of carloads for equipment and documentation. > > Following the diclosure of this, TC3, which I had played > the main role of organising in order to have a center for > local Toronto computer collectors to get together broke > up. > I would advise collectors to stay clear of this guy since > based on my experience he would only use your > enthusiasm for classic computers to his own advantage. > > Lawrence > > On 23 Feb 2003, , Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > Several years ago I set up a list of collectors on the TC3 > > site, which some of you may remember. Subsequent to that > > site being shut down by its host, I moved the list to my > > personal site at the following url: > > > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ > > > > The collector's list is reached from a link on the main page > > and resides at this url : > > > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collecto > > rs.htm > > > > The reason for this message is to request that anyone who is > > on this list, contact me HERE : > > > > antiquecomputers@hotmail.com > > > > to update their information. I have recently sent out an > > email to all person on the list, but find that almost > > everyone has moved ... email address anyway. If anyone > > reading this wishes to be put on the list, I would be glad > > to add their name and information, just be sure to format it > > the same way it is on the list. > > > > (None of this benefits me in any way, if anyone is > > wondering. However, since I receive email almost every day > > originating from my site, it is a constant source of > > information and resources for me. When someone has a > > computer for sale or donation, they frequently email me and > > I refer them back to the site to see if there is a collector > > near them. Most, of course, are from the states and many, > > many of the requests are for good homes for donated > > computers.) > > > > PLEASE don't contact me through the list, use > > antiquecomputers@hotmail.com only. I will repost this a > > couple more times, unless someone really finds it useless. > > > lgwalker@ mts.net From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Feb 26 20:41:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC References: <006801c2dde8$75dc05a0$0100000a@milkyway> <00e001c2ddf9$ffe66680$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <004801c2de08$5b9fd020$0400fea9@game> There are more then 1 variety of 40Mhz math coprocessors. Back when my main computer was a 386 in the early 90's I purchased the Cyrix version for my AMD 386/40DX and it crunched nubers very well (funny how cyrix went from the fastest FPU unit in the 386/486 days to the WORST during the pentium period when it mattered). I currently have a 386dx/40 and a math coprosessor but I dont think its a cyrix (using it for a dos game rig) Did IIT make them also? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert F. Schaefer" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:48 PM Subject: Re: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Philip Pemberton" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:43 PM > Subject: WTD: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC > > > > Hi all, > > I'm trying to track down a 387 math coprocessor IC for an old > 386-based > > Linux box that's going to be doing a bit of numbercrunching for me. Has > > anyone here got an AMD or Intel (AMD preferred) 387 coprocessor rated at > > 40MHz (-40 part number suffix) that would work correctly with an AMD > > Am386DX-40? No, before you ask, the 386DX does *not* have a built in > > mathco - the 486DX was (IIRC) the first DX-series chip with a built-in > > coprocessor. > > They come up on epay all the time, pick yer flavor. I just got a 40MHz > Cyrix Fasmath chip for $2 (includes $1 shipping) a week ago. Supposedly > clock for clock it's the fastest of the '387 FPUs, but IDK. Popped right in > to to my P70. > > I'm still looking for a set of eight 2MB 72 pin IBM SIMMs with presence > detect, and a Cyrix 486Drx2, which is a 486 with a '386 pinout, if anyone > has a spare. > > > > > Thanks. > > -- > > Phil. > > Bob From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 26 20:43:01 2003 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC In-Reply-To: <00e001c2ddf9$ffe66680$7d00a8c0@george> from "Robert F. Schaefer" at "Feb 26, 2003 07:48:45 pm" Message-ID: <200302270238.SAA29378@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > I'm trying to track down a 387 math coprocessor IC for an old > 386-based > > Linux box that's going to be doing a bit of numbercrunching for me. Has > > anyone here got an AMD or Intel (AMD preferred) 387 coprocessor rated at > > 40MHz (-40 part number suffix) that would work correctly with an AMD > > Am386DX-40? No, before you ask, the 386DX does *not* have a built in > > mathco - the 486DX was (IIRC) the first DX-series chip with a built-in > > coprocessor. > > They come up on epay all the time, pick yer flavor. I just got a 40MHz > Cyrix Fasmath chip for $2 (includes $1 shipping) a week ago. Supposedly > clock for clock it's the fastest of the '387 FPUs, but IDK. Popped right in > to to my P70. It was a tiny bit faster than the AMD and Intel parts depending upon instruction mix. > I'm still looking for a set of eight 2MB 72 pin IBM SIMMs with presence > detect, and a Cyrix 486Drx2, which is a 486 with a '386 pinout, if anyone > has a spare. It's not quite a 486. It actually is a double clocked 386 with a small internal L1 cache. It doesn't share most of the instructions unique to the 486. I don't currently have a DRX2, but I do have a DRX, which is essentially the same thing without the clock doubled core. The L1 cache made it about 20% faster than an equivalently clocked 386. You had to explicitly turn on the cache, and set regions as uncachable. (Caching the video card usually made for problems.) Eric From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Feb 26 20:47:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay References: <20030227003713.34184.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005701c2de09$ab175460$0400fea9@game> Their improvements included more memory, a sound chip (yamaha?) that was incorperated into the later spectrums anyway (just different location) and built in joystick ports. It was more bang for the buck compared to what the c64 costs during the same time. Timex also was going to make a disk system addon, did make a 1200 baud modem, and some other stuff before they pulled the plug. No software meant a dead system. Even if they didnt make the 2068 non compatible with the spectrum the british market and US market were 2 different thing. Not having a disk drive available, and limited graphics and sound limited how usefull the machine was for games. I think they only made 20,000 units or so, and they get close to $100 on ebay for one. Mine is here somewhere and I did keep the original box (20 years of dust and all) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Hartman" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:37 PM Subject: Re: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay > > From: "TeoZ" > > > > My first computer was a timex 2068 and learning to > > program on chicklet keyboards sucks. > > But.. Those were pretty nice computers... > > Timex did make an incredible goof with those... > > Originally, it was intended to be an American Version > of the 48k ZX-Spectrum Computer. > > But, as-is it wouldn't pass FCC regulations. > > So, they redesigned the computer to do so, and decided > to "improve" it. Designing out most compatibility with > the Spectrum in the process. > > With a set of Spectrum ROMS in a cartridge, and a > "Twister" card (to convert the expansion edge back to > the Spectrum version), one could use Spectrum Hardware > and software on it. > > There were third party keyboards for it also, and when > Sinclair was bought out, the company that bought it (I > can't remember the name), made better versions of the > Spectrum with built in Microdrives or Cassette Player, > and a better keyboard. > > I have a U.S. Prototype of the Spectrum, a Microdrive > interface and drive, and the Timex of Portugal 3inch > Disk Drive System (which also turned it into a CP/M > Computer). > > A nice computer for the time if you tricked it out a > little. > > The company I worked for in the 80's even made a > drawing program similar to MacPaint for it, called > TechDraw, A Spectrum Emulator Cartridge, Disk System, > Terminal Software (for the Timex Modem), and lots > more... > > Also, fun days... > > I hope to spot one at a flea market to have one again. > I still have my ZX-81 though. > > You can still get kits for the ZX-81, and some books > and software from www.zebrasystems.com > > > Regards, > Al Hartman From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed Feb 26 21:10:00 2003 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay References: Message-ID: <005901c2de0d$49174c80$0400a8c0@look.ca> bidding history is a tad suspicious. 163 to 400 to 500 (last two by the same guy). From alhartman at yahoo.com Wed Feb 26 21:13:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030227020100.84619.73032.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030227030843.19148.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > > Try re-seating the 'ribbon cable' between the CPU > board and the disk controller PCB _at both ends_. I > would estimate that over 50% or disk problems on > M3s and M4s come from this cable! You're right about this. It all starts to come back to me... *Grin!* This was one of the first things I'd do when a machine came in with disk controller problems. I'd also remove the cable totally and clean the connections with a pencil eraser and possibly some alcohol. Mostly, I'd just use the eraser. Tin to Tin connections would often get oxidation. Jerry Pournelle used to talk about something called Stabilant-21 that worked well to keep this from happening. This stuff worked great on Model I keyboard to E/I cables (I soldered on the infamous Gold Plugs on mine. and made a gold and shielded cable besides) and floppy cables. But since the behavior changes when he moves the drives, it sounds like his "0:" drive is bad. Regards, Al Hartman From terryf at intersurf.com Wed Feb 26 21:17:01 2003 From: terryf at intersurf.com (terryf@intersurf.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Univac on eBay Message-ID: <4.1.20030226211044.00a0bf18@mail.intersurf.com> Apparently, somebody wants that thing BAD!! From alhartman at yahoo.com Wed Feb 26 21:23:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested Message-ID: <20030227031919.63082.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > A minor complication with using DS drives, at least > as external, . . . > Didn't Radio Shack used pin 32 for drive select 3? > Isn't that "side select"? Yes, they did. I don't remember for sure, but I think that on a Model I, you could only use 3 drives if you decided to use Double Sided Drives. On a Model III/4, it didn't matter as you could use two internal and two external double sided drives without problems (I think...). It's been a while, and my memory is fuzzy on this one. I used to use one DS/DD 40tk as Drive 0:, and two DS/DD 80tk drives as 1 and 2 on my Model I when it ran my BBS. I had an LNDoubler in it, and always meant to get 8" drives to get 1.2mb each instead of 720k. I never did do that. Now, I could put 1.2mb drives on with that, I guess. You could boot from any size media that the controller would support, you'd just have to make a boot floppy on the correct media, as the drive settings were contained in the boot sector of the disk. On a Model I, the boot sector ALWAYS had to be Single Density, no matter what the rest of the disk was. That was the main difference between the Model I and III. While they both had DD capability (the Model I equipped with a Doubler), the Model III required a Double Density Boot Sector. I think that one of Dos'es (MultiDOS I think) would boot on both machines as long as the Boot sector was the correct type. I know one of the Dos'es could do that. I REALLY have to find my dream machine... A complete LNW Model I or Model II (Team) computer... Regards, Al Hartman From thompson at new.rr.com Wed Feb 26 21:26:01 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 In-Reply-To: <006e01c2de00$8d9cb960$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > port it, but I could not find it there either. It is my understanding that > this board is supported only under VMS. What you want is an MSCP compatible > board; the KZQSA is not. It appears to be supported under Ultrix for the QBUS mips machines, and support disks as well. -- From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Feb 26 21:32:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Univac on eBay References: <4.1.20030226211044.00a0bf18@mail.intersurf.com> Message-ID: <0a9b01c2de10$4b8c3cc0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:11 PM Subject: Univac on eBay > Apparently, somebody wants that thing BAD!! I just looked and the auction is up to $6112.22 - the reserve has NOT been met! I thing that the seller wants it VERY BAD too. I can't imagine what the reserve is!. Stuart Johnson From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 26 21:40:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030227033705.25366.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > What the heck is an ASR33 if not a serial terminal???? Umm... well... yes. But that's not what I was thinking of... I was thinking more along the lines of LA-36s and DECwriter IVs and everything in between - RS-232 (EIA) dot-matrix serial printing terminals/serial printers (no keyboard). I stand (multiply) corrected that the ASR-33 _is_ a serial terminal. > COnsidering there's little, if any, difference between the 2 types of > machine _in software_, there's no real reason why Q-bus machines would > have multiple DL11-type ports and Unibus machines wouldn't. Other than > possibly the fact that DEC made a 4-port DL11 for Q-bus (DLV11-J) but not > for Unibus. That's the reason. In my experience, more F-11-based Qbus machines had DLV11Js than DLV11Es (J-11s tended to have things like the quad DZ cards also found in MicroVAXen). > 3rd parties made 4 and 8 port Unibus DL11s, though. Haven't seen those. They sound interesting. I have seen (and have myself) quantities of Emulex Unibus 16-port DZ (and DH?) cards. Depending on the firmware and PALs, under VMS they show up as 16 TT devices (TTA0-TTA7/TTB0-TTB7) or 16 TX devices (TXA0-TXA7/etc.) But as mentioned before, those aren't necessarily going to be happy under RT-11. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 26 21:42:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: Univac on eBay In-Reply-To: <0a9b01c2de10$4b8c3cc0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <20030227033903.29835.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Stuart Johnson wrote: > I just looked and the auction is up to $6112.22 - the reserve has NOT > been met! ...I can't imagine what the reserve is!. (with pinky extended and touching corner of mouth) One MILLION Dollars!!! :-) -ethan From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Feb 26 21:57:01 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:24 2005 Subject: DEC VT 320 with Terminal Disease - help? In-Reply-To: <3E569D7D.90203@srv.net> References: Message-ID: Kevin: >90% of the time the vt320's fail, it is this transformer shorting out, which >takes the horozontal transistor(?) with it. It heats up, cracking open, and >spewing out it's magic ooze. and Tony: >Alas not. Go back to the main board of the VT320 and look at the flyback >transformer (the one with the thick red EHT cable to the side of the >CRT). Most likely it will be physcially cracked. pinpointed the problem. My fever went down enough today (bad flu) to take the thing apart farther. Just as predicted, the transformer in question has an ugly-looking crack near the EHT cable, with Magic Spooge leaking out and solidifying. Alas. Eldest daughter and I took turns with the soldering iron and solder-sucker, and got the busted transformer off. (The little spring-operated solder suckers are actually pretty effective.) It says: 88 26 SAMPO FDAO17 16-27975-01 HI POTTED Googling for a source for a replacement transformer is next on the task list. Will also order a replacement for the transistor at the same time, in case the transformer alone doesn't fix the problem. My thanks and compliments to Kevin and Tony - I have no idea how you (and the list collectively) maintain such an incredible knowledge base. - Mark From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Feb 26 22:03:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 References: <09a501c2dda5$d6eaa740$0200a8c0@cosmo> <006e01c2de00$8d9cb960$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <0ab301c2de14$9b9b65c0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Engdahl" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:35 PM Subject: Re: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 > DON'T buy that KZQSA for your PDP-11. I made that mistake. I paid $45 for > one on eBay. When I got it, behold, it would not work. I then looked high > and looked low, but there are no drivers for this board for any PDP-11 OS. I > even looked through the VAX NETBSD source code to see if I might want to > port it, but I could not find it there either. It is my understanding that > this board is supported only under VMS. What you want is an MSCP compatible > board; the KZQSA is not. > > > externally. I have been able to use an XT1140 in place of an RD54, I think > the XT1085 will work also. You have to hack ZRQCH0 or format it on an > MV2000. Two of them would give you the same amount of storage as one RD54. > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > Jonathan, Thank you for the warning! This is exactly what I needed to know to save me a lot of frustration and a handful of money - like most many people, I don't have any money to just blow :-) Also, thanks to the other folks for their input. Thanks, Stuart Johnson From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Wed Feb 26 22:19:00 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: DEC and Maxtor MFM drives (was Re: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11) References: <09a501c2dda5$d6eaa740$0200a8c0@cosmo> <006e01c2de00$8d9cb960$8a00a8c0@arctura> <2564.4.20.168.191.1046310291.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <00b701c2de16$d8044340$8a00a8c0@arctura> Correct. And thus it is not natively supported by the PDP-11 RQDX3 formatter. But if you hack ZRQCH0, it belives it *is* an RD54, with only 918 cylinders. You can then format it. When you hook it up to a BSD system, everything works great, because the drive parameters are on the first track, and the RQDX3 does the right thing. It's only 112 megs instead of 150, or something like that, but it's plenty of room for BSD, and a lot bigger than any other drive that's supported by the RQDX3, other than the RD54 itself. see http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 8:44 PM Subject: DEC and Maxtor MFM drives (was Re: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11) > Johathan Engdahl wrote: > > I have been able to use an XT1140 in place of an RD54, > > Note that the XT1140 only has 918 cylinders, while the RD54 (a > Maxtor XT2190) has 1224 cylinders. From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Feb 26 22:34:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Auction Finds Today Message-ID: <010e01c2de19$031239f0$2f0ddd40@oemcomputer> Got a few new items at auction today: 1- hp 660LX no ac adapter and batteries are down so can not test it. 2-IBM PowerPC tower Risc6000 C10 not tested yet. 3-Sun Field Engineer Handbook Volume II pretty cool stuff in it. Covers these architectures: Sun-3, Sun-3x, Sun-386i, Sun-4, Sun-4c, Sun-4m. 4-hp 5314 A Universal Counter with manual. 5-hp 5381A 80mhz Frequency Counter with manual. 6-Fluke 1900 A Multi-Counter. 7-Datapulse model 201 Data Generator. 8-Sun UltraSCSI external with 9gig HD in it. 9-hp Apollo And some mousepads, Analog cards (4), and other goodies I have checked out yet. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 26 22:51:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030227031919.63082.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > I had an LNDoubler in it, and always meant to get 8" > drives to get 1.2mb each instead of 720k. > I never did do that. > Now, I could put 1.2mb drives on with that, I guess. Yep The earliest 1.2M drive that I saw (before the AT) was a Mitsubishi 4854? I was told that it had had been designed for the explicit purpose of replacing 8" drives. It did NOT also have a "360K" mode. I also heard a rumor (probably not true) that "When Microsoft was writing the DOS and AT BIOS support for 1.2M drives, they thought that IBM had decided to release a model with 8" drives". > I think that one of Dos'es (MultiDOS I think) would > boot on both machines as long as the Boot sector was > the correct type. I know one of the Dos'es could do > that. Hmmm. mixing single density sectors and double density sectors on the same track? > I REALLY have to find my dream machine... A complete > LNW Model I or Model II (Team) computer... This'll make your day,... I had an LNW. (also a Lobo expansion interface, a PMC81, etc.) Most of that stuff, I sold cheap at VCF (which is run by your buddy Sellam). From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Feb 26 22:58:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 Message-ID: <200302270454.XAA2473924@shell.TheWorld.com> >I noticed an auction on eBay for a KZQSA-SA SCSI controller and I was >wondering (silly me) if it could be used with RT-11. I know that RT-11 is >much older than this board, but I was hoping someone had written a driver >for it. There never was a driver written for it, at least not by DEC. If I had had the documentation, I probably would probably have tried it, since I did lots of handler work. In fact, if someone has clear and complete documentation for it, and a board to play with, I would not be adverse at trying my hand at it. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jss at subatomix.com Wed Feb 26 22:59:11 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Univac on eBay In-Reply-To: <0a9b01c2de10$4b8c3cc0$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <4.1.20030226211044.00a0bf18@mail.intersurf.com> <0a9b01c2de10$4b8c3cc0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <2814047759.20030226225514@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > I can't imagine what the reserve is!. At this point, I don't care. I just want to be present when whoever wins the auction picks up the machine. This is one of the coolest machines I might ever see in my lifetime. Right here in my little town. Here's hopin'... -- Jeffrey Sharp From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Wed Feb 26 23:19:00 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested Message-ID: >The earliest 1.2M drive that I saw (before the AT) was a >Mitsubishi 4854? >I was told that it had had been designed for the explicit purpose of >replacing 8" drives. It did NOT also have a "360K" mode. I still have some M4854 drives that are in use to this day! My *first* computer that I saved up for was a Pulsar Electronics Little Big Board system (Z80 - 64K, STD bus, 8" drive interface, CP/M 2.2) The neat thing was that I had dual 5.25" M4854 drives that provided 2.4Mb online while all of my friends had dual 360K drives..... Anyway, I digress, The M4854 was an 8" drive replacement. Motor speed was ?300? rpm, not the usual 360rpm with the 5.25" drives. The hardist thing about it was that it did not have a 50pin connector. Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix Pty Ltd Level 1, 10 Moore St Canberra ACT 2601 Ph: (612) 6290 9011 Fx: (612) 6262 6152 Mob: 0414 986 878 Web: www.citadel.com.au Melbourne - Sydney - Canberra - Brisbane - Hong Kong - Atlanta Any pricing or time figures contained within this email are indicative only, and have been provided for planning purposes only. Please request a quotation from your sales representative prior to undertaking any work. CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 26 23:32:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: C64View updates Message-ID: <200302270539.VAA12798@stockholm.ptloma.edu> The Macintosh port of C64View, a freeware cross-platform Commodore 64 image viewer, has been updated. This new version features drag-and-drop operation and improved UI, as well as correcting OS X compatibility bugs and introducing a new Classic version for 68K Macintoshes and non-Carbon Power Macs. It preserves the Mac-specific converter capability, allowing you to convert your Commodore images into PICT files for import to your favourite Mac application. C64View's DOS version is also still available, and is compatible with Win32 as well as DOS 5.0 and up. You can capture the DOS version screen in Windows to export images, or use your favourite screen-grab TSR. C64View supports KoalaPainter, Doodle!, 8K bitmaps (including Flexidraw and Print Shop Screen Magic) and 1K colourmaps. Sample images are included. Download from http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/c64view/ C64View is freeware. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegcaps awound? --------------------------------- From melamy at earthlink.net Wed Feb 26 23:37:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: ISIS-II command summary? Message-ID: <26020357.77630@webbox.com> I only cut my teeth on these back in the 70s... I kept boxes of disks from that era. Thanks to Eric and you for chiming in with some information. The conversation is reminding me of what I used to know off the top of my head... The connector is probably a DC37. I guess I didn't pay enough attention to it when I was looking earlier. If someone has a file available that would be great. I can spend the time to ohm it out, but I had hoped the doc existed in a ready format. Erir reminded me of the SD controller on the I/O board and I will connect a drive to that one tomorrow and see if I can at least kluge something together just to test the SD section. I know the rest of the system is fine. I have the Ball Brothers display doc if anyone is interested and I am in the process of picking up some more of the hardware data. A copy of Kermit for both SD Intel and SD CP/M would probably be my best bet. Can I send disks to you Dave to get copies and include money for costs? Let me know. Thanks. regards, Steve >--- Original Message --- >From: Dave Mabry >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 2/26/03 5:57:31 PM > Oh boy! Hey Joe! Another one! > >Hi Steve, > >Welcome to the Intel Development System adiction. > >If you have a double density drive in your 225, that would normally mean >you have the double density controller board set plugged into the >Multibus and cabled internally to the built-in Shugart 801 drive. While >the drive is capable of reading/writing single density, the double >density boardset from Intel is NOT. For the MDS Intel only made >single-density boardsets and double-density boardsets. There wasn't >anything that Intel made, supported under ISIS-II, that could read both >densities on one drive. It was possible to have both single and double >density drives in one MDS, but they were separate drives and separate >controllers. > >Check again on the external connector. I seem to remember it being 37 >pin D-type connector. But I can check again. I have the documentation >for what signals are where and can type them in, but I'm hoping that >someone (Tony, Joe?) might already have that in a file. > >I can help you with software if you need anything for ISIS-II and/or >CPM-80 for that machine. I have Kermit configured so that makes it easy >to transfer files to/from a PC and then send them in e-mails. > >Let me know what you might want. > >Dave > >Steve Thatcher wrote: >> Hi all, I got my Intel MDS225 working today, but I only have >> a single double density drive on it. I seem to recall that it >> would read single density, but you accessed by a different drive >> specifier. I can't seem to find one bit of documentation on the >> ISIS command at home. Does anyone have a summary page they could >> scan and send? >> >> I am also looking for the 50 pin connection wiring so I can connect >> a drive externally. >> >> It was fun booting up ISIS-II version 4.2 and seeing the prompt >> come up. I also had a CP/M 2.2 version that booted perfectly! >> >> best regards, Steve Thatcher >> >> . >> > > >-- >Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com >Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team >NACD #2093 From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 26 23:45:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 In-Reply-To: <1e8.3095c42.2b8e9405@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/26/03 7:21:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, > rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > > > > Correct, XEROX made a model 8/16 that had two CPUs, one 8 bit and 16 bit. I > > THINK one was a Z-80 and the other was a 8086 but I'm not sure any more. I > > used to have the docs for an 8/16 and I've been looking for one but haven't > > managed to find one yet. > > > > > > Xerox made a couple of 8/16s. I have one of the 8086 second CPU boards for my > Xerox 820-II. I was going to install it till a house fire melted the 820. > > The original 820 came with dual 8" floppies or an 8" floppy and an 8" > harddrive and ran CPM. It was a spendy little computer for its time. Then > they fit Dual 5 1/4" floppies in an external case, came out with a low > profile keyboard and the add on 8086 Board. They called it the Xerox > 820II-8/16. The original 820 was a single board computer that used external drives - two - in either 8" or 5.25" size. In either size they were limited to single density. The next version, the 820-II added two connectors to the board and one was occupied by the Floppy Disk Controller (FDC) card which was both single and double density capable. In the standard 820-II the second connector was vacant, but could be occupied by an 8086 card giving a dual processor capability. Additional external hardware could be added such as the Disk Expansion Module (DEM) which provided for hard drive capability as well as 5.25" DSDD floppies. When in DEM configuration, the FDC card was replaced by the DEM interface card and FD control was provided from the DEM. The 820-II-16/8 was just such a configuration. > IIRC the design was taken from the Z80 Big Board which was a popular kit at > the time. It was mounted flat, underneath the CRT and looked much like a > terminal. I have not tried it with a Big Board, but I know that there is a great similarity between the 820 and the Kaypro computers as a modem program configured for one will run on the other. - don > At the time the IBM PC came out the Xerox design was hopelessly outdated. > They redesigned the case to a rectangular shape with a separate monitor ala > the IBM PC. They used dual 5 1/2" half height floppies oriented horizontally. > I never saw an actual one but IIRC they used the same Big Board coupled with > the 8086 board that was in the 820 and sold it as the Xerox 8/16. > > It ran CPM, CPM-86 and MS-DOS ( IIRC to 2.11). However it was not IBM > Compatible, and did not have IBM graphics. > > By the time it was ready the bottom had fallen out of the crossover market. I > don't think Xerox sold any commercially. A liquidation company sold the > remainder for about three years. I doubt they sold many, I bet most were > scrapped for the drives. > > The Xerox 820 II was my second computer system and still one of my favorites. > (The first was State Surplus Litton 1251 that I bought for $25.00) I have had > almost all of the various models of the 820 go through my hands over the > years. Besides my original melted one I still have another packed away with > all it's SW. Someday it will run again. > > Paxton > Astoria, OR From jss at subatomix.com Wed Feb 26 23:56:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: <20030227033705.25366.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030227033705.25366.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <18317490469.20030226235236@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > In my experience, more F-11-based Qbus machines had DLV11Js than DLV11Es > (J-11s tended to have things like the quad DZ cards also found in > MicroVAXen). My uPDP-11/23+ has a DZV11-M 4-port mux (M7957). It is supported under RT-11 5.1 and CTS-300 8.1, both of which reside on the machine. -- Jeffrey Sharp From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Feb 27 00:06:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok, I've taken the time to take it apart and try a few things, still no luck... I wrote: > > I recently picked up a TRS-80 model 4, that seems to have problems with > > its floppy drives. > > > > The machine is a base Model 4 with 64KB of ram (I think - haven't yet > > taken the EMF shield off the mainboard), and no peripherals attached. > > When I powered it up the first time, with or without a disk in the > > (bottom) drive, it displayed "Cass?" on the screen, and then I could press > > enter to that and the "Memory size?" prompt, and get a basic prompt. On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > I beleive that means it can't find a disk controller, so it assumes you > have a cassette-only system. > > Try re-seating the 'ribbon cable' between the CPU board and the disk > controller PCB _at both ends_. I would estimate that over 50% or disk > problems on M3s and M4s come from this cable! Aparently, the Drive 0: is bad. Replacing it with the 1: or an IBM-branded Tandon drive from an IBM 5150 PC, it seems to try to boot from the disk. No disk in the drive (or the disk upside down) yields a "Diskette?" message on the display. A disk placed right-side up, which should be bootable, gives no messages on the display after power-up or reset. However, with a disk inserted, the drive light (and motor) turn off after approx 7 seconds. I tried using a boot disk that I got with the machine, and a fresh one from a .dsk file of LS-DOS 6.3.1H from Tim Mann's web site, using Tony's trsfmt and diskdmp. The image works with xtrs too, so I'm fairly confident that it should work when stuck on a floppy. > > Also, the disk I used was supposed to be a TRS-DOS (bootable) disk, but > > it's possible that they've gone bad after so many years. Are the disks on > > the Model 4 recorded so that I can read them on a PC (IE 48/96tpi MFM, > > compatible with the NEC D765)? I'd like to know if I can make backup > > images and/or see if the disks work on another machine. > > Mostly. It is standard MFM encoding (well, the TRS-80 can do FM (single > density) too, but the M3 and M4 at least expect the boot sector to be > double desnisty, and the standard OSes use double density (MFM) encoding > for the entire disk. I would like to try to make an image from the disks I have, is there a program that works under Linux with a standard floppy disk controller to read disks and spit out .dsk files? Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Feb 27 01:13:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Message-ID: Since we're on points like this one, does anyone out there remember the the first shots of the '86 Challenger disaster? One chase plane scene showed for about 1/2 a day on CNN, as if it were normal and planned, then simply disappeared. It *hadn't* anything to do with the SRBs... Did anyone see? Does anyone remenber? Off list responses preferred... Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of chris > > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:26 PM > To: Classic Computer > Subject: Re: Let the witch trials begin! > > >It never made it to CNN or MSNBC. > > MSNBC's web site also altered a story the other day regarding Osama bin > Ladin and Iraq. The first release made mention that bin Ladin was calling > his people to kill Hussein. Then, when the US held a press briefing on > the same topic, and tried to make it sound as if bin Ladin was in cahoots > with Hussein, MSNBC suddenly altered their story, removing the reference. > > No explination to the change. Could have been an error, could have been > an oversite, could have been a request by someone... could have been > anything. Point is, the story took a change to reflect the US governments > desired position on the topic, and they just pretened it had always been > that way. > > Humm... does Winston Smith work for MSNBC? > > -chris > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From tim.myers at sunplan.com Thu Feb 27 01:18:00 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: WTD: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC In-Reply-To: <006801c2dde8$75dc05a0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: Hi Phil, There may well be a working AMD DX-40 with 387 machine in my Parent's shed - where abouts are you based? Tim. > I'm trying to track down a 387 math coprocessor IC for an old 386-based > Linux box that's going to be doing a bit of numbercrunching for me. Has > anyone here got an AMD or Intel (AMD preferred) 387 coprocessor rated at > 40MHz (-40 part number suffix) that would work correctly with an AMD > Am386DX-40? No, before you ask, the 386DX does *not* have a built in > mathco - the 486DX was (IIRC) the first DX-series chip with a built-in > coprocessor. Sent using the Entourage X Test Drive. From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Feb 27 01:24:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) Message-ID: If we were to address human rights abuses, we're one of the tops when it comes to abusing, and rationalizing and perpetuating (almost said "defending") those abuses. Its core to our government, core to our economy, and core to our infrastructure. We Americans are reared to be the most amazingly arrogant, sanctimonious, and prudish creatures on the planet, even after repeated bloody noses on the global stage have shown us that isn't the way to go. Sure, we have superb resources, technology and production. However, at the core, we're still human -- no one of us innately better than a Kurdish shepherd. We still want to think we are though, but where does that kind of attitude get us? Cheers... Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of > vance@neurotica.com > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 11:40 PM > To: Chad Fernandez > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no > subject) > > On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > > It *is* about oil. If it were about human rights and "weapons of mass > > > destruction" (most of which aren't), why aren't we going after > > > mainland China, North Korea, some of Europe, and *ourselves*? [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Feb 27 01:30:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no subject) Message-ID: > On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > You honestly believe that the governmant controls what CNN, MSNBC, FOX, > > etc. put into there news casts? > Actually, our government controls *access* to who and what gets into the news. Today, news isn't about Edward R. Murrow or Walter Cronkite. Its about money, looking good, keeping up the ratings, and, just occasionally, a slanted nod to what's going on in the world. "Truth" went the way of the wind with (maybe before) Kennedy... Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Feb 27 01:41:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no s ubject) Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of Mail List > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 8:17 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no > subject) > > > > This country was founded by Christians. They may have had some odd > > > customs, and they may have made some things "law" that were really > > > tradition, but thats no reason to reject everything "religious", such > as > > > the principles that this nation was founded on. > > America was *NOT* founded by Christians. I'm very tired of hearing that > drumbeat. The founding fathers, if anything, were DEISTs, and/or > ceremonialisyts, and well knew the inherent dangers of including or even > nodding to support any one religion over another in this country and its > government - something our modern-day right-wing Christian brothers and > sisters either don't know or won't learn. > > A state religion here would indeed be as dangerous to US national growth > and development as is has proven all over the middle east. Remember: prior > to 1979, Iran didn't have either a "state religion," or a theocracy. Now > it does. Was there an improvement? > > Cheers... > > Ed > San Antonio, Tx, USA [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Feb 27 01:43:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no s ubject) Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of Mail List > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 8:17 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no > subject) > > > > This country was founded by Christians. They may have had some odd > > > customs, and they may have made some things "law" that were really > > > tradition, but thats no reason to reject everything "religious", such > as > > > the principles that this nation was founded on. > This country was founded by Christians. They may have had some odd customs, and they may have made some things "law" that were really tradition, but thats no reason to reject everything "religious", such as the principles that this nation was founded on. America was *NOT* founded by Christians. I'm very tired of hearing that drumbeat. The founding fathers, if anything, were DEISTs, and/or ceremonialisyts, and well knew the inherent dangers of including or even nodding to support any one religion over another in this country and its government - something our modern-day right-wing Christian brothers and sisters either don't know or won't learn. A state religion here would indeed be as dangerous to US national growth and development as is has proven all over the middle east. Remember: prior to 1979, Iran didn't have either a "state religion," or a theocracy. Now it does. Was there an improvement? Cheers... Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Feb 27 01:52:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: WTD: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC References: Message-ID: <000d01c2de34$f0495a80$0100000a@milkyway> Brian Chase wrote: > Back in the day, Intel made 386DX chips that ran up to 33MHz. AMD > came out with a clone chip in the 1990-1991 time frame that was a > 386DX that ran at 40MHz. That's the sort of thing I'm after - the 386DX CPU is currently clocked at 40MHz, I need a math coprocessor for the board that can handle the same speed. Otherwise I'll have to try and find out what some of the jumpers on the board do. Which may be a bit difficult considering it has no manufacturer/model number branding on it. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Feb 27 01:56:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no s ubject) Message-ID: What the government can and will do is contained in two phrases: "Manifest Destiny," and "Eminent Domain." The first, Manifest Destiny, was the political doctrine which told everyone it was God's Will that we (Americans) posess, occupy and exploit all the lands between the two native shores of the North American continent. (Canada: ya lucked-out!). The second, Eminent Domain, says that, if you have it, and the government wants it (usually land, but has been applied to inventions as well), they *can* offer you a 'fair price' (usually a paltry pitance), but they can otherwise take what they want from you "in the name of the greater good" -- or, how I lost my farm to an unused interstate freeway (San Jose, Ca). > If the local police can do it, I would guess the federal government > must have some provision that allows them to do what they must, > when they must, also. [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Thu Feb 27 02:07:00 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no s ubject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62855.62.148.198.97.1046333017.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Tillman, Edward said: > What the government can and will do is contained in two phrases: "Manifest > Destiny," and "Eminent Domain." > An interesting subject, I'm sure, but way off-topic for cctalk. I went away for the weekend and found 450+ emails from cctalk of which at least 70% was off-topic shite. Please, take it to alt.religion.politics.witch.trials.and.middle.east.oil or similar. Cheers, -- jht From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Feb 27 02:58:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 In-Reply-To: <200302270454.XAA2473924@shell.TheWorld.com>; from mbg@TheWorld.com on Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 05:54:36 CET References: <200302270454.XAA2473924@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20030227095234.O41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.27 05:54 Megan wrote: > In fact, if someone has clear and complete documentation for it, and > a board to play with, I would not be adverse at trying my hand at it. If you get docs, please share it with me. I already wrote a RX02 driver for NetBSD and would like to write a KZQSA driver too... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Feb 27 03:39:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Just for the sake of asking... (was - RE: Trivia Question) Message-ID: Just for the sake of asking: What is a "real computer?" What are its power requirements? What are Its space requirements? What is its storage capacity? How? How many calculations per second? What I/O processes? What I/O media? Y'see... I once met a "real computer" -- I think, and used the darned thing for over two years. It was in a big concrete building, way up north (almost to Santa Claus). It occupied the entire basement of a large, windowless, cubical concrete building, and generated enough heat to warm the whole place during some pretty harsh winters. Its power requirements on a day-to-day basis kinda rivalled Spokane... Its base mainframe measured 60' x 120', had 30 dumb-terminal workstations in its ops center, serviced 120 remote terminals in the building, networked 35 outlying remote stations, but could boast only 1MB of memory, and could handle maybe 3000 calculations per second while in pre-emptive time-sharing. It was idiosyncratic: Though end users tended to interact with it via attached light pens and keyboards, it also had some of the very first "touch" screens -- it only gave up the time-slice when it wanted to... You talked to it through both mag tapes and punch cards. If you fed it a nice, neat stack of punch cards, it literally vomited "hash" back at you. If you attempted the same program with 18" 'high-speed' reel-to-reel mag tapes, it fed you back spaghetti. There was often electrical arcing between user screens and light pens, and I hate to think of the number of monitor screens replaced on the 'touch screens' when some user thought calibration, or 'a little harder' meant putting a knuckle or two through the screen... And we won't even go into the horrid monsters at the end of each corridor know as "batch printers..." It that a "real computer?" > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of > vance@neurotica.com > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 5:42 PM > To: Philip Pemberton > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Trivia Question > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > > Eric Smith wrote: > > > That's quite a sad definition of "real computer". Any one of my > > > PDP-8 or PDP-11 systems, even the wimpiest, is much more of a "real > > > computer" than any PC compatible will ever be. > > > > What, even if said PC is a K6-II/400 running Linux? I've got two PCs > running > > A PC running Linux is not a real computer. > > Peace... Sridhar [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Feb 27 04:46:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Trivia Question Message-ID: Oh? I thought their only major drawback was in their heavy water experiments. A nice scientific CAD setup for modelling the molecule might have put them years ahead of us... > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "Eric > Smith" > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 5:19 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Trivia Question > > Jim Battle wrote: > > I was thinking more along the lines of computing ballistics, > > Computing ballistics would have been some help, but nowhere near enough > to change the outcome. > > > and advancing their nuclear program. > > Their "nuclear program" had serious defficiencies that wouldn't have > been solved by more computing power. [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Feb 27 04:59:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Trivia Question Message-ID: Und vy shut ve uz zis "Blowfish?" I sot zat PGP vas ze better enkriptshun, nicht war? Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "Philip > Pemberton" > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:52 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Trivia Question > > Jim Battle wrote: > > I've had the discussion with workmates about the following scenario. > > If the German forces had access to a single 5150 IBM PC back in 1940, > > would the war have ended very differently? I think it would have. > "Who needs zis Enigma vee haff developed? Vee shall use Blowfish to > encrypt > our messages!" > > Later. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] From dweebgeek at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 05:16:00 2003 From: dweebgeek at yahoo.com (Fahiem Wagiet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE dweebgeek@yahoo.com Message-ID: <20030227111224.98882.qmail@web41414.mail.yahoo.com> __________________________________________________ From dmabry at mich.com Thu Feb 27 05:27:01 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: ISIS-II command summary? References: <26020357.77630@webbox.com> Message-ID: <3E5DF529.7060301@mich.com> Steve, Kermit for the two OS's will be on their way to you. Just e-mail me your address privately and I'll send you two diskettes with configured Kermit for ISIS-II and CPM-80. As I recall (I always seem to be able to figure them out when I need them, but never can remember the commands first time) they work with either of the two serial ports on the back cabled to a PC. Last time I used them they worked with the built-in terminal emulator in Windows using its Kermit protocol. The IOC board, that huge back panel circuit board, has a single density controller chip and a 50-pin header connector that cables with a 1-to-1 ribbon cable to the drive. I also think you have to change at least one jumper on the 801 drive when moving from DD to SD in that configuration. I'd be interested in any spare Ball monitor modules and one or two Shugart 800/801 drives if anyone has extras. I've got two MDS's that only need those to be up and running. Dave Steve Thatcher wrote: > I only cut my teeth on these back in the 70s... I kept boxes > of disks from that era. > > Thanks to Eric and you for chiming in with some information. > The conversation is reminding me of what I used to know off the > top of my head... > > The connector is probably a DC37. I guess I didn't pay enough > attention to it when I was looking earlier. If someone has a > file available that would be great. I can spend the time to ohm > it out, but I had hoped the doc existed in a ready format. > > Erir reminded me of the SD controller on the I/O board and I > will connect a drive to that one tomorrow and see if I can at > least kluge something together just to test the SD section. I > know the rest of the system is fine. > > I have the Ball Brothers display doc if anyone is interested > and I am in the process of picking up some more of the hardware > data. > > A copy of Kermit for both SD Intel and SD CP/M would probably > be my best bet. Can I send disks to you Dave to get copies and > include money for costs? > > Let me know. Thanks. > > regards, Steve > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From jss at subatomix.com Thu Feb 27 06:19:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no s ubject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <113965678.20030227061534@subatomix.com> On Thursday, February 27, 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > What the government can and will do is ... Hey, Ed: What part of "STOP" do you not understand? -- Jeffrey Sharp From djg at drs-esg.com Thu Feb 27 07:00:00 2003 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Calcomp incremental plotter Message-ID: <200302271257.HAA25635@drs-esg.com> I just got a Calcomp 563 incremental plotter. Does anybody have a manual that I could get a copy of or at least know the pinout of the connector and what the mate is (round multipin). Also does anybody know where I can get supplies such at the 30" sprocket feed paper rolls (still doing a web search but only found 36" so far) and the pen. The pen looks like a short ballpoint cartridge so hopefully I can cut a normal one down if I can't find an identical one. Thanks, David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 27 07:16:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: LIST ADMIN!!!!! Re: Let the witch trials begin! References: Message-ID: <004701c2de61$d9226860$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Did my post a day or two ago on "lets nix the extreme off-topicness, specifically politics and religion" not make it to the list? I'm 1/2 step away from flagging an unsubscribe on the people who don't seem to get it. Jay West From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Feb 27 07:49:00 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127540@MAIL10> Hello, all: I have a business trip out to the Bay Area next week (and then on to Los Angeles). I will probably have a few hours to kill up in the Bay Area. What are your recommentations for places to visit, including places for surplus equipment? Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. First Vice President Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Feb 27 07:55:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: LIST ADMIN!!!!! Re: Let the witch trials begin! In-Reply-To: <004701c2de61$d9226860$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Jay West wrote: > Did my post a day or two ago on "lets nix the extreme off-topicness, > specifically politics and religion" not make it to the list? It made it, people just don't seem to care. --fred From rborsuk at colourfull.com Thu Feb 27 08:30:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127540@MAIL10> Message-ID: <7005235D-4A5F-11D7-9427-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Is Weird Stuff Warehouse still out in San Jose? I always loved that place when I went out to San Jose(not far from the Bay Area). Rob On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 08:45 AM, Cini, Richard wrote: > Hello, all: > > I have a business trip out to the Bay Area next week (and then on to > Los Angeles). I will probably have a few hours to kill up in the Bay > Area. > What are your recommentations for places to visit, including places for > surplus equipment? > > Thanks. > > Rich > > ========================== > Richard A. Cini, Jr. > First Vice President > Congress Financial Corporation > 1133 Avenue of the Americas > 30th Floor > New York, NY 10036 > (212) 545-4402 > (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Feb 27 08:35:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127540@MAIL10> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127540@MAIL10> Message-ID: <200302270631350223.209D5BA8@192.168.42.129> Hi, Rich, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 27-Feb-03 at 08:45 Cini, Richard wrote: >Hello, all: > > I have a business trip out to the Bay Area next week (and then on to >Los Angeles). I will probably have a few hours to kill up in the Bay Area. >What are your recommentations for places to visit, including places for >surplus equipment? See http://www.bluefeathertech.com/technoid/calswap.html Enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Feb 27 08:54:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Calcomp incremental plotter In-Reply-To: <200302271257.HAA25635@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, David Gesswein wrote: > I just got a Calcomp 563 incremental plotter. Does anybody have a manual > that I could get a copy of or at least know the pinout of the connector and > what the mate is (round multipin). Also does anybody know where I can > get supplies such at the 30" sprocket feed paper rolls (still doing a web > search but only found 36" so far) and the pen. The pen looks like a short > ballpoint cartridge so hopefully I can cut a normal one down if I can't > find an identical one. > > Thanks, > David Gesswein > http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. > Used one of those _many_ years ago for doing our Gerber plots, A regular brass ball point pen cartridge (shortened) worked fine. We didn't use the original controller, but a Z80 running a Forth program to do the Bresenham line drawing stuff. Peter Wallace From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Feb 27 08:59:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit In-Reply-To: <7005235D-4A5F-11D7-9427-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> References: <7005235D-4A5F-11D7-9427-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <200302270655350299.20B354A8@192.168.42.129> Good morning, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 27-Feb-03 at 09:26 Robert Borsuk wrote: >Is Weird Stuff Warehouse still out in San Jose? I always loved that >place when I went out to San Jose(not far from the Bay Area). They moved over to Caribbean Drive (see my web site mentioned in a different post), but yes, they're still there. They have a huge as-is area that's always fun to dig through. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Feb 27 09:00:45 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay Message-ID: Right. Went up almost $350 in the last 25 seconds. As to the 2 bids by the same guy, he was probing (albeit rather strongly) the winner's higher proxy bid -- you can see this if you look at the times the bids were placed. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Mahoney [mailto:brianmahoney@look.ca] Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:06 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay bidding history is a tad suspicious. 163 to 400 to 500 (last two by the same guy). From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 09:02:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Timex/Sinclair 2068 In-Reply-To: <20030227112701.90652.19352.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030227145634.93090.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> > From: "TeoZ" > > Their improvements included more memory, a sound > chip (yamaha?) that was incorperated into the later > spectrums anyway (just different location) and > built in joystick ports. Yes, as well as Composite Video Out available on the expansion port. And don't forget the Cartridge slot! > It was more bang for the buck compared to what the > c64 costs during the same time. Timex also was > going to make a disk system addon, did make a 1200 > baud modem, and some other stuff before they pulled > the plug. No software meant a dead system. The Spectrum was actually a bigger system in Britain than anywhere else, being a home-grown system. A disk system WAS made, but Timex in the U.S. never marketed it. We got a number of them from Timex in Portugal at Zebra Systems and sold them for awhile. They were very nice, and styled just like the 2068. Timex Portugal sold 2068's a while longer (as they had a lot of them in stock). I really wanted us to sell them with 5.25 or 3.5 drives. But Timex was stuck with tons of 3" Amdek drives and made it so attractive for us that we went with those. The bad thing for our users was that media was scarce and expensive. Though nothing stopped them from adding on their own external drives of any type. (not 1.2 or 1.44mb) > Even if they didnt make the 2068 non compatible with > the spectrum the british market and US market were 2 different thing. Yes, but there was so much more cool software for the Spectrum, and as you note... Very little for the 2068. A Spectrum emulator solved that, however. And people would call us constantly about the Twister card so they could run ZX-Spectrum Microdrives. The Interface One for the Spectrum also added serial ports, which helped people run faster modems than the 1200 baud Timex Modem. > Not having a disk drive available, and limited > graphics and sound limited how usefull the machine > was for games. Yes. And not having a standard parallel port for printers other than the 4" thermal printer wasn't so good either. But, who really wanted to type long documents on that keyboard anyway.. > I think they only made 20,000 units or so, and they > get close to $100 on ebay for one. Mine is here > somewhere and I did keep the original box (20 > years of dust and all) I don't know how many were made. Your number sounds like a good ballpark. Though Timex Portugal kept making them. The made a 2048 and a TX-2068 which was more like a Spectrum. We were working on our own "Twister Card" at Zebra Systems. It would have incorporated the Spectrum expansion bus, a Spectrum Emulator, a Kempston compatible Joystick port, Composite Interface, and an RGB Interface. We never got it to work properly though. Which was a shame. If we had completed it, I think it would have been the best expansion item in the US market. Regards, Al Hartman From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 09:07:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030227112701.90652.19352.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030227150354.54076.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > > Yep > The earliest 1.2M drive that I saw (before the AT) > was a Mitsubishi 4854? I was told that it had had > been designed for the explicit purpose of replacing > 8" drives. It did NOT also have a "360K" > mode. > > I also heard a rumor (probably not true) that "When > Microsoft was writing the DOS and AT BIOS support > for 1.2M drives, they thought that IBM had > decided to release a model with 8" drives". Cool info! Thanks! > Hmmm. mixing single density sectors and double > density sectors on the same track? No, but one could replace the boot sector with the correct density boot sector when copying the disk to make it boot on one system or another. It may have been Vernon Hestor's other OS. V-DOS I think it was called. It was a cut-down Multidos he wanted to market to game manufacturers. > This'll make your day,... > I had an LNW. (also a Lobo expansion interface, a > PMC81, etc.) I never saw a Lobo Max-80, though I had a few friends who bought the Mapper board from them to run CP/M on their Model I's. > Most of that stuff, I sold cheap at VCF (which is > run by your buddy Sellam). He made a comment to me a month or so ago that indicated he at least KNEW what an LNW-80 was... Oh well.. An ex-employer (and former LNW Dealer) had several that he trashed. I found out when I called him to ask if he would sell or trade any away... Bummer!!! Thanks for the cool info! Regards, Al From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 09:15:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030227112701.90652.19352.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030227151207.96043.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> > From: Patrick Finnegan > > Aparently, the Drive 0: is bad. Replacing it with > the 1: or an IBM-branded Tandon drive from an IBM > 5150 PC, it seems to try to boot from the disk. No > disk in the drive (or the disk upside down) yields a > "Diskette?" message on the display. A disk placed > right-side up, which should be bootable, gives no > messages on the display after power-up or reset. > However, with a disk inserted, the drive light (and > motor) turn> off after approx 7 seconds. Ok.. Take a look at your "1:" drive. Near the connector you should see a socket with something that looks kind of like a chip in it. But, it will have 4 metal bridges and three will be broken. On your "0:" drive the first one will be in place and 2 - 4 will be broken. On the "1:" drive, the first, third and fourth should be broken and the second bridged. If you swap these between the two drives, you ought to be able to turn the "1:" drive to a "0:" drive. As for your IBM drive, it is probably jumpered for DS1 ("1:" drive). If you can find the jumpers on the logic board, move the jumper from DS1 to DS0 if you'd like to try to use that as the "0:" drive (leaving the "1:" drive as-is). Let me know if that helps you. > I tried using a boot disk that I got with the > machine, and a fresh one from a .dsk file of LS-DOS > 6.3.1H from Tim Mann's web site, using Tony's > trsfmt and diskdmp. The image works with xtrs too, > so I'm fairly confident that it should work when > stuck on a floppy. Sounds ok to me... Regards, Al From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Feb 27 09:28:00 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Shugart 8" model 801 drives Kansas City Message-ID: Wandering through the local surplus I found 2 Shugart full height 8" model 801 floppy drives. They look pretty dusty. They are not in an enclosure. Does anybody want me to pick they up, you tell me the price I should offer and you pay shipping. I'll pack them for free. Thanks Mike McFadden m m c f a d d e n @ c m h . e d u From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Feb 27 09:36:00 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City Message-ID: Wandering through the local surplus I found a decserver 550 in a full height rack. It had the following boards in it. 4 X CXA16-M M3118 1 X DESQA-SA M3127 1 X KDJ11-SD M7554 Bulkheads, power supply, and cables I read somewhere that it could be converted to a 11/53 with a minimal effort. How much trouble? Mike m m c f a d d e n @ c m h . e d u From rborsuk at colourfull.com Thu Feb 27 09:38:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Timex/Sinclair 2068 In-Reply-To: <20030227145634.93090.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0AE6A9E9-4A69-11D7-9427-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Woohoo, Timex guys on the list. I can ask a Timex (sort of ) question now. I have an A&J MicroDrive (Stringy Floppy - The next big thing to rule the world) that I don't have any information on. I would love to use it with my T1000. It was almost complete in the box. Interface, drive, cable, even some new stringy floppies still sealed. Does anyone have a manual for this thing? I've poked around online but haven't seen too much. Other things: I'm cleaning out my memory stash. Anyone interested in some EDO DIMM's (168 pin)? I have an odd assortment of 8, 16, and 32 meg dimm's (10 modules total) (3.3v - 3 buffered with parity (looks like 1-8M 2-32M), 2 unbuffered with parity(1 -32M and 1 - 16M) , and 5 unbuffered no parity(2-8M 2-16M 1-32M). I'm guessing on some - majority have labels though. First $10.00 plus shipping takes them away(please write me off list) Microdrive first though. Thanks Rob From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Feb 27 09:39:09 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: HP 3000 922LX in Kansas City Message-ID: Deskside size cabinet, I haven't looked inside. Mike m m c f a d d e n @ c m h . e d u From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Feb 27 09:42:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: Timex/Sinclair 2068 References: <20030227145634.93090.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006501c2de75$7a1176e0$0400fea9@game> Do you still have a 2068 and addons for it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Hartman" To: Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:56 AM Subject: Timex/Sinclair 2068 > > From: "TeoZ" > > > > Their improvements included more memory, a sound > > chip (yamaha?) that was incorperated into the later > > spectrums anyway (just different location) and > > built in joystick ports. > > Yes, as well as Composite Video Out available on the > expansion port. > > And don't forget the Cartridge slot! > > > It was more bang for the buck compared to what the > > c64 costs during the same time. Timex also was > > going to make a disk system addon, did make a 1200 > > baud modem, and some other stuff before they pulled > > the plug. No software meant a dead system. > > The Spectrum was actually a bigger system in Britain > than anywhere else, being a home-grown system. > > A disk system WAS made, but Timex in the U.S. never > marketed it. > > We got a number of them from Timex in Portugal at > Zebra Systems and sold them for awhile. They were very > nice, and styled just like the 2068. > > Timex Portugal sold 2068's a while longer (as they had > a lot of them in stock). > > I really wanted us to sell them with 5.25 or 3.5 > drives. But Timex was stuck with tons of 3" Amdek > drives and made it so attractive for us that we went > with those. > > The bad thing for our users was that media was scarce > and expensive. Though nothing stopped them from adding > on their own external drives of any type. (not 1.2 or > 1.44mb) > > > Even if they didnt make the 2068 non compatible with > > the spectrum the british market and US market were 2 > different thing. > > Yes, but there was so much more cool software for the > Spectrum, and as you note... Very little for the 2068. > > A Spectrum emulator solved that, however. > > And people would call us constantly about the Twister > card so they could run ZX-Spectrum Microdrives. The > Interface One for the Spectrum also added serial > ports, which helped people run faster modems than the > 1200 baud Timex Modem. > > > Not having a disk drive available, and limited > > graphics and sound limited how usefull the machine > > was for games. > > Yes. And not having a standard parallel port for > printers other than the 4" thermal printer wasn't so > good either. But, who really wanted to type long > documents on that keyboard anyway.. > > > I think they only made 20,000 units or so, and they > > get close to $100 on ebay for one. Mine is here > > somewhere and I did keep the original box (20 > > years of dust and all) > > I don't know how many were made. Your number sounds > like a good ballpark. Though Timex Portugal kept > making them. The made a 2048 and a TX-2068 which was > more like a Spectrum. > > We were working on our own "Twister Card" at Zebra > Systems. It would have incorporated the Spectrum > expansion bus, a Spectrum Emulator, a Kempston > compatible Joystick port, Composite Interface, and an > RGB Interface. > > We never got it to work properly though. > > Which was a shame. If we had completed it, I think it > would have been the best expansion item in the US > market. > > > Regards, > Al Hartman From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Feb 27 09:47:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:25 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, McFadden, Mike wrote: > Wandering through the local surplus I found a decserver 550 in a full height > rack. > > It had the following boards in it. > > 4 X CXA16-M M3118 > 1 X DESQA-SA M3127 > 1 X KDJ11-SD M7554 Nice ! > I read somewhere that it could be converted to a 11/53 with a minimal > effort. How much trouble? Rip out the CXA's (16-port serial boards), add a disk and/or tape controller, and perhaps some memory. Off you go. The heart of the DECserver 550 was/is indeed a barebones /53 CPU. Which comes with 512KB RAM on the CPU card, and its console serial port. If you need stuff, and would like to trade for one of the CXA's, contact me off-list... --f From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Feb 27 09:57:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: Commodore and PET computers in the Philadelphia area. References: Message-ID: <00cf01c2de77$fc8f00e0$0400fea9@game> Do they have any 4mb memory cards and/or SCSI cards for the apple IIgs? Too bad I am in Ohio, the drive to Philly is too long. Any chance you can ship an item? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vulcanjedi Classic" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:30 PM Subject: Commodore and PET computers in the Philadelphia area. > Greetings Programs. > > The time has come to unload the few CBM and PET machines I forced them to > save. > > There is a Philadelphia PA USA area project that takes donated computers and > fixes them up for needy families. In the process we have collected some "old > computer stuff" > > Beyond the 700 old 386 computers I talked them in to throwing out they still > have some other oldies tucked away. There are several CBM and PET computers > as well as Apple + bell and howell black apples and some TI peripheral > expansion units waiting for someone to take them away and make a donation to > the project. > > Please see our website for details on the project. www.teamchildren.com and > please direct any email relating to this offer to childrensproject@go.com > and if you are anywhere near the Philadelphia area you might want to stop by > to take a look around. My 4 year volunteering with the project has put PILES > of classic stuff in my basement. > > Please check out the website. Take a trip with a Uhaul if you want a few > hundred 486's :) > > end of line. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 09:59:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030227155421.41718.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, McFadden, Mike wrote: > > > Wandering through the local surplus I found a decserver 550 in a full > > height rack. Sweet. > > I read somewhere that it could be converted to a 11/53 with a minimal > > effort. How much trouble? > Rip out the CXA's (16-port serial boards), add a disk and/or tape > controller, and perhaps some memory. Won't you need "real" 11/53 Boot Roms? I got a KDJ-11 board from Jonathan Engdahl a while back that he had returned to "normal" status. ISTR there might be a jumper or two that needs to be moved, but I'm not certain; I didn't mod it. Nice find. Wish I could grab one like that. -ethan From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Feb 27 10:03:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030227151207.96043.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > Ok.. > > Take a look at your "1:" drive. Near the connector you > should see a socket with something that looks kind of > like a chip in it. > > But, it will have 4 metal bridges and three will be > broken. On your "0:" drive the first one will be in > place and 2 - 4 will be broken. > > On the "1:" drive, the first, third and fourth should > be broken and the second bridged. > > If you swap these between the two drives, you ought to > be able to turn the "1:" drive to a "0:" drive. Umm, actually, 'no'. The cable has pins removed to change drive selects, and the drives don't have any method of setting the drive selects. So, swapping the position of the drives changes what drive they are. The LED on the front of the drive confirms that. > As for your IBM drive, it is probably jumpered for DS1 > ("1:" drive). If you can find the jumpers on the logic > board, move the jumper from DS1 to DS0 if you'd like > to try to use that as the "0:" drive (leaving the "1:" > drive as-is). Now, the IBM drive has one of those annoying 'broken-jumper' IC things. I've circumvented that with a staple for now, and it gets selected properly. > Let me know if that helps you. I seem to have no problem with the drive selects. I'm fairly certain that the drives, their cable, and the disks are good. What's the next thing to check? Is there an easy couple line program I could type up in basic that using INP() and OUT() to test the drive controller to see if it can read from the disk? I _could_ read the tech manual I have, but I tend to be lazy when it comes to re-inventing things that other people already have done. One last thing, if it matters... it seems my machine was upgraded to 128kB RAM. Is is possible that the machine has bad memory that shows up when booting from a disk but not when starting up basic? I haven't tried any 'test' basic programs yet, so I'm not sure how well basic really works either. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Feb 27 10:08:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City Message-ID: <200302271604.LAA2513562@shell.TheWorld.com> >> I read somewhere that it could be converted to a 11/53 with a minimal >> effort. How much trouble? >Rip out the CXA's (16-port serial boards), add a disk and/or tape >controller, and perhaps some memory. Off you go. The heart of >the DECserver 550 was/is indeed a barebones /53 CPU. Which comes >with 512KB RAM on the CPU card, and its console serial port. I don't believe you are "ready to go" after this mod. I seem to remember that the ROMs on the DS500 use special boot code and that they need to be replaced to be a normal 11/53. I saw some posts on one of the newsgroups from someone who had done it. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 10:21:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: Calcomp incremental plotter In-Reply-To: <200302271257.HAA25635@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <20030227161752.76603.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Gesswein wrote: > I just got a Calcomp 563 incremental plotter. Is that powder blue, kind of an A-Frame design? I had to pass on one a few years ago because I could _not_ fit it into a full-sized cargo van - it was 2" too tall at the frame. > Does anybody have a manual I have no manuals, but I did rescue the 6800-based controller box. It's about the size of a small S-100 enclosure. > Also does anybody know where I can get supplies such at the 30" sprocket > feed paper rolls (still doing a web search but only found 36" so far) The Calcomp Plotter I saw had a permanently affixed sprocketed mylar loop that you taped drafting paper down to. Perhaps you could find/make that? Maybe we are not talking about the same device. You have pictures? -ethan From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Feb 27 10:26:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: ; from mmcfadden@cmh.edu on Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 16:35:42 CET References: Message-ID: <20030227165708.S41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.27 16:35 "McFadden, Mike" wrote: [decserver 550] > I read somewhere that it could be converted to a 11/53 with a minimal > effort. How much trouble? AFAIK all you need to change are the EPROMs on the CPU board. And you would need a disk controller of some sort... pdp11-field-guide.txt says: M7554-SD KDJ11-SD Q J11 CPU 18MHz, 1.5-Mbyte RAM, LAT ROM M7554-SD with S-box handle M7554-SD Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From iamvirtual at hotmail.com Thu Feb 27 10:55:00 2003 From: iamvirtual at hotmail.com (Fred Flintstone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 Message-ID: Thanks for the assistance to date! Actually, I have a second M7800 card installed on the PDP-11/10 machine. I was having so much difficulty with getting a 20mA terminal (LA36-DP - OEM of an LA36) to work, I just about disabled the console SLC and reconfigured the the M7800 to work as the console! I also have M780 spares if I need them. (If anyone knows anything about the dip switches on the DataSouth Printer board in the LA-36DP P/n 5120000-1, I would be most grateful!) As far as memory, there are two 16kw core systems installed on this machine. I also have lots of paper tapes (mostly diagnostics, but also Fortran compiler), and 9-track tapes. I am needing to know what I am looking for to get RT-11 running. What did DEC call their install tapes? eg. Is the "RT-11 V03B BIN MT9 1/2" tape the boot/install tape? Is RT-11 the easiest O/S to get installed? I want to get to a point where I can verify the hardware is all running. As far as media devices, I have 3 x RK05, 1 x TS03, 2 x RX01, 1 x TU58. I am trying to decide what will be moved to the PDP-11/10 from the 11/20. The goal is to have the PDP-11/20 up and running. Getting the PDP-11/10 is just a step along the way. Where is this VTServer people had mentioned? I don't recall this item. Thanks. --barryM >From: Ethan Dicks >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:14:12 -0800 (PST) > >--- pavl wrote: > > I would strongly recommend using TU58.exe on a host pc to emulate a > > serial tape drive on your second serial port (you DO have a second slu?) > >On a machine that old? Unlikely. Machines of the era before the DZ-11, >and especially machines that were not destined for timesharing, tended >to have few serial ports, - a console and probably nothing else. It was >a boon that a low-end Qbus machine commonly came with a DLV11J with a >port for the console, a port for a TU58 and two more ports for DECwriters >or machine-to-machine communication or whatever. > >It's easy enough to _add_ a second SLU card, (DL-11something), _if_ >you have one lying around (which I expect he doesn't). > > > to boot RT11 off virtual tape so you can poke around and build a system > > from there. > >As a place to put RT-11, a virtual TU58 isn't a bad idea. Hopefully >wharever emulator you have can emulate both units - the TU58 is kinda >small, even compared with 8" floppies. > > > VTserver is really amazingly great, but you may not have enough ram and > > booting RT or XXDP from a slu will give you better diagnostics to assess > > your RK05,etc > >How much RAM does VTserver require? Older versions of RT-11 (those >contemporary with the 11/10) are usable at aroun 8KW, IIRC. Of course >the full 28KW is nice, especially if you want to run large apps like >ADVENT, but the CUSPS should all run with minimal RAM. > >-ethan _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Feb 27 11:34:00 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 XMI-2 bus questions. References: Message-ID: <3E5E4B63.9080408@aurora.regenstrief.org> Brian, much response these VAX6000/XMI questions on this list get not :-) I was totally consumed by other things lately (and it's going to continue) but to your question: > Is it possible to run older the older 6000-200/300/400 (5V) XMI bus > processors in an XMI-2 bus system? I think it is. The different voltages are on different pins of the backplane, that's how these converters from 5V to 3.3V worked that were used to upgrade older systems to 500s. Since there are hardly any XMI specifications out there, you are bound to try it out and see what happens :-) But I thought you had amassed so many KA66A CPUs that you could load your machines fully? Or do you want to run ULTRIX on them? Speaking of XMI specs, didn't you get something like that from Chuck via Ebay some year(s) ago? regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Feb 27 11:38:01 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: FREE VAX 6000-460 in Richmond, VA References: <1031799513.3224.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> <004f01c25a1f$cc896e80$fe41cd18@D73KSM11> <002c01c2606a$dc2f6a50$073bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3E5E4C27.6050002@aurora.regenstrief.org> Wayne M. Smith wrote some moths ago: > Last call. This is a free VAX 6000-460 rack located at a government facility in > Richmond, VA, strapped to a pallet. It needs to be picked up in the next few > weeks, otherwise it will be consigned to oblivion. If you can take it, reply > and I will provide you with the necessary information. > > Please, save this VAX! Was it ever saved? Is it lost now? regards, -Gunther From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Feb 27 11:49:00 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 References: <003901c2904c$b6955770$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <130115740345.20021120011330@subatomix.com> <012601c2906d$d4bc9940$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <161126230239.20021120040820@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E5E4ECE.7000705@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi Jeffrey, congratulations to your not so new anymore VAX 6000 and welcome to the club. Is it running yet? What do you run it with (like what OS?). I have a never ending stream of VAX6000s so it seems. Have one 6610 in my garage now, but it doesn't want to start up quite so nicely. Think someone took out the master CPU to sell it on epay before I took it home. I know, can probably just connect the console an hit the magic Z button to get the other CPU to start up... may be its worse. Anyway, there's yet another 6000 waiting for me to take home. I am pressed on space though. I will probably part out most of those that I have in excess, except if someone wants to come to Indianapolis to get some. I really want to trade against a VAX 4000 300 or higher sidetable VAX. regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From acme at ao.net Thu Feb 27 11:53:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: Timex Computer Corporation Message-ID: <200302271750.MAA27848@eola.ao.net> From: TeoZ Date: 02/26/2003 5:02 PM > Too bad Timex dropped out of the computer buisiness, I liked the 2068. Still > the C64 owned the game market and I ended up getting one a few years later. > At least I learned to program on the 2068 since I had only a few titles for > it. Timex made some really bad choices when pursuing the US computer market. Instead of simply producing a US version of the Spectrum (for which there was already a ton of hardware and software available) they redesigned the TS2068 (nee TS2000). The resultant machine was (IMHO) far superior to the Spectrum, but the delays, R&D expenses, and incompatibilities put Timex Computer Corp. out of business. The *up* side of all this was that an entire cottage industry was spawned to support the orphaned TS2068. Users had their choice of several robust FDD interfaces, serial and parallel i/o, tape storage devices, and other peripherals, some of which is still sold and supported by the original manufacturers. Just last night I obtained a TS2068 with a full size keyboard, CGA video output, and RS-232 all built into the unit. So, while I agree that it's a shame Timex didn't hang in there, I've gotten a lot of benefit from all the creative juices that were flowing around the TS2068 during the mid-eighties. Later -- Glen 0/0 From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Feb 27 11:57:00 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: More stuff rolling into my place ... Message-ID: <3E5E5090.9070202@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I got a call to rescue not too old yet classic equipment. DEC AXP 3000 and 2600 (?) systems. And some HP9000 K class thing. Plus StorageWorks RAID stuff. 3 full height cabinets and 3 half height cabinets, 4-8 monitors and some tape backup boxes. It sounds like there will be nice stuff among it, yet I am getting into trouble with my garage space. I have an MTI StingRay cabinet to kill for making space. This is a storage system with CI connectors. MTI make. I have taken all the functional parts out of the cabinet, but the cabinet needs to go soon. Since I am probably getting blessed with StorageWorks stuff, I may be have some leftovers. Need to check when I see the new stuff. Anyone have a HP9000 K class and runs NetBSD, or one of those Mach kernel based BSD lite systems? That's what I'd like to try with the HP9000. It seems quite cute. Although I may part with it for a VAX 4000-500 or better side-table VAX. cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 27 12:11:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <200302271604.LAA2513562@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: >>> I read somewhere that it could be converted to a 11/53 with a minimal >>> effort. How much trouble? >>Rip out the CXA's (16-port serial boards), add a disk and/or tape >>controller, and perhaps some memory. Off you go. The heart of >>the DECserver 550 was/is indeed a barebones /53 CPU. Which comes >>with 512KB RAM on the CPU card, and its console serial port. > >I don't believe you are "ready to go" after this mod. I seem >to remember that the ROMs on the DS500 use special boot code >and that they need to be replaced to be a normal 11/53. I >saw some posts on one of the newsgroups from someone who had >done it. Correct, you need the ROMs from a /53, and then you should be good to go. I've got a couple boardsets, but due to lack of room ended up having to dump the chassis and have never gotten around to completing the conversion. I can't remember how much memory is onboard, but there should be enough to to run RT-11. Such a setup seems to be popular for 2.11BSD for some odd reason. The big problem with these boards is that due to the bulkheads on the boards, they'll work best in a BA213, rather than the normal chassis used for a PDP-11. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From at258 at osfn.org Thu Feb 27 12:19:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 In-Reply-To: <1e8.3095c42.2b8e9405@aol.com> Message-ID: Many 820-II's and 820-I's were field upgraded to 16/8's. The external 5-1/4's were sucky. The DEM-II expansion case was nice, but the big 8 inch drives ruled. 980K each. I always thought one of the 8inch 16/8's would be interesting, but in the end, they'd still only be DOS. The 820's with the big 8inch Shugart rigid drive nice. On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/26/03 7:21:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, > rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > > > > Correct, XEROX made a model 8/16 that had two CPUs, one 8 bit and 16 bit. I > > THINK one was a Z-80 and the other was a 8086 but I'm not sure any more. I > > used to have the docs for an 8/16 and I've been looking for one but haven't > > managed to find one yet. > > > > > > Xerox made a couple of 8/16s. I have one of the 8086 second CPU boards for my > Xerox 820-II. I was going to install it till a house fire melted the 820. > > The original 820 came with dual 8" floppies or an 8" floppy and an 8" > harddrive and ran CPM. It was a spendy little computer for its time. Then > they fit Dual 5 1/4" floppies in an external case, came out with a low > profile keyboard and the add on 8086 Board. They called it the Xerox > 820II-8/16. > > IIRC the design was taken from the Z80 Big Board which was a popular kit at > the time. It was mounted flat, underneath the CRT and looked much like a > terminal. > > At the time the IBM PC came out the Xerox design was hopelessly outdated. > They redesigned the case to a rectangular shape with a separate monitor ala > the IBM PC. They used dual 5 1/2" half height floppies oriented horizontally. > I never saw an actual one but IIRC they used the same Big Board coupled with > the 8086 board that was in the 820 and sold it as the Xerox 8/16. > > It ran CPM, CPM-86 and MS-DOS ( IIRC to 2.11). However it was not IBM > Compatible, and did not have IBM graphics. > > By the time it was ready the bottom had fallen out of the crossover market. I > don't think Xerox sold any commercially. A liquidation company sold the > remainder for about three years. I doubt they sold many, I bet most were > scrapped for the drives. > > The Xerox 820 II was my second computer system and still one of my favorites. > (The first was State Surplus Litton 1251 that I bought for $25.00) I have had > almost all of the various models of the 820 go through my hands over the > years. Besides my original melted one I still have another packed away with > all it's SW. Someday it will run again. > > Paxton > Astoria, OR > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 12:24:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030227182054.31781.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Fred Flintstone wrote: > Thanks for the assistance to date! > > Actually, I have a second M7800 card installed on the PDP-11/10 machine. That's handy (and it ends the speculation if you have two SLUs or not ;-) > As far as memory, there are two 16kw core systems installed on this > machine. Nice. That should serve nicely. Wish my 11/05 was that well equipped (but it's in the short box). > I am needing to know what I am looking for to get RT-11 running. What > did DEC call their install tapes? eg. Is the > "RT-11 V03B BIN MT9 1/2" tape the boot/install tape? It certainly seems like the distribution tape, but it's not clear to me that you have a bootable tape there. If your TS03 is working and you enter in the TS bootstrap and you get text, then it is bootable. Dunno where you'd find install instructions for v3, though. It's *possible* that there is a second tape that you boot first, one with either an MS or MT boot block on it. It's also possible that there is a boot papertape. Again, that's before my time (I got started with RT-11 v4 on floppy). > Is RT-11 the easiest O/S to get installed? Yes! > I want to get to a point where I > can verify the hardware is all running. RT-11 or XXDP (DEC's low-level diagnostic monitor) are the way to go for that. With 28KW of core (not all of the upper card can be used due to the I/O page, you don't have a lot of OS options. 2BSD is out, as are recent versions of RSTS and RSX-11. Don't remember what the requirements for older OSes are off the top of my head. > As far as media devices, I have 3 x RK05, 1 x TS03, 2 x RX01, 1 x TU58. Nice assortment. Have you checked any of your diskettes or disk packs for labels that suggest they might be bootable? > I am trying to decide what will be moved to the PDP-11/10 from the 11/20. > The goal is to have the PDP-11/20 up and running. Getting the PDP-11/10 > is just a step along the way. Are you trying to get something historically accurate or just something runnning well enough to be interesting? How much core do you have in your 11/20? That might help drive the answer. If you want to run RT-11, you'll need a storage device on the 11/20. It could be the RX01. If you want to toggle in a long bootstrap, it could be the TU-58 (but floppies are easier to find than TU-58 cartridges, and can be reformatted for the RX01 with an 8" drive and modern to semi-modern computers). -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 13:03:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030227185940.71984.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > I can't remember how much memory is onboard, but there should be enough > to to run RT-11. Mine has 512KB. > Such a setup seems to be popular for 2.11BSD for some odd > reason. Is that sarcastic? I have lots of experience with 2.9BSD (I've had distro tapes for 15+ years and have installed it on a number of real PDP-11s and some old versions of SIMH (which is how I helped Bob find the implementation bug with the RP emulation). I have stuck with it, because until I recently aquired the DECserver CPU board, I didn't _have_ a Q-bus J-11 board, just several F-11 boards (11/23 and 11/23+ CPUs). 2.9BSD does not require Split I&D and runs fine on an 11/23 or 11/24 (but it's nice to have more than a pair of RL02s to house it) 2.11BSD is desired by lots of folks because it has MSCP support built- in (ISTR there are patches for 2.9BSD for it). These same people don't mind that 2.11BSD requires Split I&D because now, J-11 systems are widely available and, below the 11/83, inexpensive. You can have a servicable 2.11BSD system in a BA-23 with this CPU board, an RQDX3 and an ST-225 (RD31). You can have a decent system with an ST-251 (RD32). With an RD53 or RD54, you can really play. There are other disk options, but the commonly available arrangements are more than satisfactory. Also, MHz aside, you don't typically need what an 11/53 CPU offers if you are going to be dabbling in RT-11. Even v5.7 is servicable with far older hardware. The speed is nice, but I never complained about running v5.3 on my 11/23 w/256K. I don't think there's much out there for the RT-11 world that you *need* a J-11 chip. TSXplus might be different; don't know - only ever run that on an 11/73 and I was a lowly user. > The big problem with these boards is that due to the bulkheads on the > boards, they'll work best in a BA213, rather than the normal chassis used > for a PDP-11. Good point. I was going to remove my bulkhead since I have *no* BA213 equipment anywhere (and I have some COMBOARD handles...) I just wasn't sure how I was going to handle (no pun intended) the I/O board that's mounted up in there... too long and thin for a regular BA23 I/O panel. I'm still looking for a BA213 or two for "haul-it-away" prices. I wish I'd gotten to the trailer at the back of the Hamvention lot last Spring before Mitch Miller did - I'd have loved to get that uVAX-III with dual Ethernet for a song. I might have even left the CPU in it. :-) -ethan > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Feb 27 13:04:42 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: "McFadden, Mike" "decserver 550 in Kansas City" (Feb 27, 9:35) References: Message-ID: <10302271858.ZM3521@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 27, 9:35, McFadden, Mike wrote: > Wandering through the local surplus I found a decserver 550 in a full height > rack. > > It had the following boards in it. > > 4 X CXA16-M M3118 > 1 X M3127 > 1 X KDJ11-SD M7554 > > Bulkheads, power supply, and cables > > I read somewhere that it could be converted to a 11/53 with a minimal > effort. How much trouble? Well, it will never be exactly an 11/53, since it's in the wrong box, but you can make it effectively equivalent. I'd remove the CXA16-M serial multiplexers, which I don't think any normal PDP-11 OSs support, but the DESQA should be OK; it'll look to any OS just like a DELQA. You'll need to change the two boot EPROMs on the KDJ11 board. The standard boot ROMs for a microPDP-11/53 are 23-261E5 and 23-262E5. You might get lucky if you type either of those numbers into Google ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 13:13:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: A&J Stringy Floppy In-Reply-To: <20030227180001.93682.88336.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030227191006.49539.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> > From: Robert Borsuk > > Woohoo, > Timex guys on the list. I can ask a Timex > (sort of) question now. > I have an A&J MicroDrive (Stringy Floppy - The next > big thing to rule the world) that I don't have any > information on. I would love to use it with my > T1000. It was almost complete in the box. > Interface, drive, cable, even some new stringy > floppies still sealed. Does anyone have a > manual for this thing? I've poked around online but > haven't seen too much. Nope. We used to sell those at Zebra Systems. Check the interface adapter. It should indicate on it whether it's a TS-1000 or TS-2068 adapter. I can't remember the commands anymore. If I find anything, I'll let you know.. Regards, Al From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 13:15:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: Timex/Sinclair 2068 In-Reply-To: <20030227180001.93682.88336.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030227191144.30429.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> > From: "TeoZ" > > Do you still have a 2068 and addons for it? No. Nothing that I'd like to sell... Check www.zebrasystems.com Stewart still has printers, some books and maybe some 2068 software. Otherwise, check eBay and flea markets. Sorry. Regards, Al From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 13:24:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030227180001.93682.88336.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030227192113.24211.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> > From: Patrick Finnegan > > > Umm, actually, 'no'. The cable has pins removed to > change drive selects, and the drives don't have any > method of setting the drive selects. So, > swapping the position of the drives changes what > drive they are. The LED on the front of the drive > confirms that. If you're that sure. It sounds like you just have bad boot disks. Remember, a Model IV needs a boot disk with the Model IV ROM file on it or else it won't boot properly. It will only boot CP/M+ for the Model IV without this. This *MAY* be why you're having a problem booting stuff.. > Is there an easy couple line program I could type up > in basic that using INP() and OUT() to test the > drive controller to see if it can read from > the disk? I _could_ read the tech manual I have, > but I tend to be lazy when it comes to re-inventing > things that other people already have done. I don't think so. It might be possible, but I don't know how to do that. > One last thing, if it matters... it seems my machine > was upgraded to 128kB RAM. Is is possible that the > machine has bad memory that shows up when booting > from a disk but not when starting up basic? If the problem is in the first bank, maybe... I used to use a simple program to test RAM in the old days... I think this will work (If I remember it correctly) 10 A = Mem (0) 20 Print A;" "; 30 gosub 10 What happens here is that the program puts the return for the gosub on the stack and reduces the RAM by a few bytes each iteration. If there is bad ram, the computer will crash. If not, it will eventually end with an out of memory error. Contact me off list. Maybe I can somehow make you a disk you can boot. I could probably set up my Coco with a Disk Copy program to copy the disk. If my Model I were working, I could use SuperUtility to make you a bootable disk. I'm looking for a Model III or IV locally to play with. Anyone in Philly have one they'd part with? I'd certainly use it to help Pat out as a start... I might have something to trade for it you'd want (like a 56k Modem for a PC or a low capacity PC IDE Drive?) Regards, Al From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Feb 27 13:30:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: A&J Stringy Floppy In-Reply-To: <20030227191006.49539.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > I have an A&J MicroDrive (Stringy Floppy - The next > > big thing to rule the world) that I don't have any I thought Exatron was the only company to make those... Interesting. g. From iamvirtual at hotmail.com Thu Feb 27 13:42:00 2003 From: iamvirtual at hotmail.com (Fred Flintstone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 Message-ID: >From: Ethan Dicks >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 >Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:20:54 -0800 (PST) > >--- Fred Flintstone wrote: > > Thanks for the assistance to date! > > > > Actually, I have a second M7800 card installed on the PDP-11/10 machine. > >That's handy (and it ends the speculation if you have two SLUs or not ;-) > > > As far as memory, there are two 16kw core systems installed on this > > machine. > >Nice. That should serve nicely. Wish my 11/05 was that well equipped >(but it's in the short box). Yes, I guess I should call it a 11/05. despite what is clearly printed on the console. > > I am needing to know what I am looking for to get RT-11 running. What > > did DEC call their install tapes? eg. Is the > > "RT-11 V03B BIN MT9 1/2" tape the boot/install tape? > >It certainly seems like the distribution tape, but it's not clear to >me that you have a bootable tape there. If your TS03 is working >and you enter in the TS bootstrap and you get text, then it is >bootable. Dunno where you'd find install instructions for v3, though. >It's *possible* that there is a second tape that you boot first, one >with either an MS or MT boot block on it. It's also possible that there >is a boot papertape. Again, that's before my time (I got started with >RT-11 v4 on floppy). This tape is actually the first of two tapes. At this point, I don't know if I have any bootable media. > > Is RT-11 the easiest O/S to get installed? > >Yes! > > > I want to get to a point where I > > can verify the hardware is all running. > >RT-11 or XXDP (DEC's low-level diagnostic monitor) are the way to go >for that. With 28KW of core (not all of the upper card can be used >due to the I/O page, you don't have a lot of OS options. 2BSD is >out, as are recent versions of RSTS and RSX-11. Don't remember what >the requirements for older OSes are off the top of my head. > > > As far as media devices, I have 3 x RK05, 1 x TS03, 2 x RX01, 1 x TU58. > >Nice assortment. Have you checked any of your diskettes or disk packs >for labels that suggest they might be bootable? Both systems have RK05J disks in addition to the three RK05 drives. I presume the disk packs contained within the RK05J drives are most certainly bootable, but I have no idea how they were generated, etc. The drives and disk packs are dusty and I am learning what I need to do and at the same time, not destroy the hardware along the way! I have read the recent thread on cleaning RK05 and disk packs and I will be attempting this. If I get the RK05J disk cleaned and ready to go, and toggle in the bootstrap and the disk loads, do I need to manually start the O/S at some location? I believe the M873YA Bootstram ROM is capable of booting the RK05, but I don't know what would need to be done next (I believe 773010 will boot the RK05) > > I am trying to decide what will be moved to the PDP-11/10 from the >11/20. > > The goal is to have the PDP-11/20 up and running. Getting the PDP-11/10 > > is just a step along the way. > >Are you trying to get something historically accurate or just something >runnning well enough to be interesting? How much core do you have in >your 11/20? That might help drive the answer. If you want to run RT-11, >you'll need a storage device on the 11/20. It could be the RX01. If >you want to toggle in a long bootstrap, it could be the TU-58 (but floppies >are easier to find than TU-58 cartridges, and can be reformatted for the >RX01 with an 8" drive and modern to semi-modern computers). > >-ethan I want the PDP-11/20 to eventually be historically correct but with a full load of options :-) The ultimate goal is to run adventure and Star Trek on it using the LA36 terminal. ie. the quintessential time-wasting use of a mini-computer ;-) Of course the blinkenlights and tape operating has to be part of it too! It is interesting that my 10 year-old son asks to play Star Trek on my MicroPDP-11 rather than the full-motion flight simulator on the PC. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From mattis at mattisborgen.org Thu Feb 27 14:03:00 2003 From: mattis at mattisborgen.org (Mattis Lind) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: SV: DataSaab ??? In-Reply-To: <8714156.20030226191300@subatomix.com> Message-ID: I don't think it is a test tool for a saab. Swedish DataSAAB was a part of the car and airplane manufacturer SAAB once upon a time. They used to build big computers in the late sixties / early sevnties, D-21 and D-23. I would suspect that your thing is some kind of simple data entry (maybe for banking, they did bank terminal systems) device to be connected to big IBM (maybe) system or similar. This link gives some valueable information: http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/datasaab/om-eng.html /Mattis -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fran: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]For Jeffrey Sharp Skickat: den 27 februari 2003 02:13 Till: cctalk@classiccmp.org Amne: Re: DataSaab ??? On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > At the last TRW Swapmeet, I picked up a Datasaab Mode 3422-6 something or > other. ... anyone have any idea what this thing might be? A diagnostic tool that connects to a Saab vehicle? -- Jeffrey Sharp From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 27 14:12:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: Just for the sake of asking... (was - RE: Trivia Question) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3562.4.20.168.191.1046376520.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Edward Tillman writes: > It that a "real computer?" Of course it was! But they didn't so much have light pens as "light guns", right? And I can't think of too many other computers that had ashtrays built into the consoles. From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Feb 27 14:32:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <3E5E4ECE.7000705@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <000001c2de9e$dcad5020$cb87fe3e@athlon> > I have a never ending stream of VAX6000s so it seems. Have > one 6610 in my garage now, but it doesn't want to start up > quite so nicely. Think someone took out the master CPU to > sell it on epay before I took it home. I know, can probably > just connect the console an hit the magic Z button to get the > other CPU to start up... may be its worse. I don't think there's a "hard-wired" master in a VAX 6000 like there is in (say) a VAX 8250. There's an algorithm for determining which CPU is the boss (based on something like slot number). Rule #1 with the 6K (in my experience) is to reseat the boards. If that doesn't do it, post the failure details. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 14:34:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030227203031.90298.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Fred Flintstone wrote: > Yes, I guess I should call it a 11/05. despite what is clearly printed on > the console. They are the same thing except for the label. The 11/04 and 11/35 came in two flavors also - BA-11 with the boards vertical, or in the shorter box with the boards horizontal. > If I get the RK05J disk cleaned and ready to go, and toggle in the > bootstrap and the disk loads, do I need to manually start the O/S at > some location? If you toggle in the bootstrap and the disk loads, you are *running* the OS (if the pack was bootable). The purpose of the bootstrap is to provide just enough code to reset the controller (sometimes) and load block #0 into memory location 0 and jump to the right place in it to make _that_ code do something useful. > I believe the M873YA Bootstram ROM is capable of booting the RK05, > but I don't know what would need to be done next (I believe 773010 > will boot the RK05) If you have a bootable pack spun up in drive 0 with all the right lights on and you jump to the boot code address (773010, in your example), the lights will flicker, the code in ROM will load block zero into low core and jump to it. If the filestructure is intact and hardware is all working, you should get a "." prompt (for RT-11). Start by typing "DIR" and see what's out there. > I want the PDP-11/20 to eventually be historically correct but with a > full load of options :-) That's a lotta cabinets! There were plenty of options that would be appropriate for it. You might have to end up picking a configuration out of old docs, or picking a year and declaring, "this is how a commercial user might have had theirs equipped in 1973" or something similar. One of these days, I'll have enough time to restore my 11/20. I'm still up to my armpits in 12-bit projects (like fixing an -8/e so I can try out my "new" RK8E) > The ultimate goal is to run adventure and Star Trek on it using the LA36 > terminal. ie. the quintessential time-wasting use of a mini-computer > ;-) Perfect. A laudable goal. Given that, you may want to look into an old version of RSTS once you are happy with the hardware. It's very BASIC-centric and there are plenty of BASIC games from the old days... source is available on the 'net (google for "classic basic games"). I spent many hours dialled into a RSTS machine over an LA-36 w/integral acoustic coupler when I was 10. Star Trek and Adventure (and other games) are available for RT-11, too, with much less system management effort. You can also practice your RT-11 and RSTS skills with Bob Supnik's SIMH - http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ All the BASIC fun with fewer cuts and pinches from old cabinets. You'll at least be able to familiarize yourself with the software while not worrying if the hardware is behaving. I still recommend the real thing... it's an auditory and olfactory experience as well. There are few options for blinkenlights and emulators. :-( > Of course the blinkenlights and tape operating has to be > part of it too! Naturally. Why have blinkenlights if they aren't blinken. > It is interesting that my 10 year-old son asks to play Star Trek on my > MicroPDP-11 rather than the full-motion flight simulator on the PC. Smart kid. -ethan From gil at vauxelectronics.com Thu Feb 27 14:48:00 2003 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: ASR-33 vital poop Message-ID: <3.0.32.20030227134748.009cfe60@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi folks: This is a summary of input from many people, manuals, and prior notes of mine. The initial question was of the differences between the standard Teletype 33, and the version provided for DEC systems. But I have also added some sundy stuff as well. Let me know of any corrections/additions. Standard Teletype "Private-wire" ASR-33 (aka M33-asr): ------------------------------------------------------ - The right side module is the CCU (Call-Control-Unit). The "private-wire" version is for current-loop operation, and has a blank top plate. It is normally configured for 20-mA (but can be jumpered for 60-mA). - The paper tape reader is also called a TD (Transmitter-Distributor), a legacy term from early Teletype days. - The "standard" tape reader has a 3-position lever: START/STOP/FREE. - An optional "auto" tape reader has a 4-position lever: START/AUTO/STOP/FREE. In the AUTO position, the reader can be commanded on/off remotely. The DC1 (XON) and DC3 (XOFF) control characters are used as start/stop commands for the auto tape reader. Since XON/XOFF chars are used today as software-handshaking flow-control characters, you want to disable software handshaking if you are connecting to a PC. - There is a little circuit board mounted in the pedestal stand which provides power for the tape reader. In later 3300-series machines, this was finally built into the CCU. - from Jack Hart: The Model 33ASR with the "Auto" TD feature had a different TD control/power board underneath the machine in the back. It had a relay that was controlled by either the momentary "AUTO" switch or a stuntbox contact on the printer. There was another feature controlling the TD when the 33 was configured for TWX. When a connection to the the other end was established, the distant machine's answerback would trip and then send an "X-ON" to start the tape at the calling machine. The X-ON was actually programmed onto the end of the answerback drum sequence. Sometimes the modem itself would send the contact closure to trip the TD based upon seeing the RS232 Carrier Detect and/or the RTS/CTS leads change states. DEC LT33 (DEC-modified ASR-33): ------------------------------- - The CCU is a standard private-wire current-loop (blank plate). - Has an 8-position connector (mate-n-lock/molex?) with 6 pins populated. Two wires for transmit loop, two for receive loop, and two for reader control. Can be wired for full-duplex (two loops), or half-duplex (rx and tx wired in series to one loop). - Uses the standard tape-reader (3-position lever: START/STOP/FREE) - The pedestal has a small circuit board with the control relay . (and reader power supply as well?) (and DEC interface cable?) There are a couple of cables connecting it to the CCU. - from Jim Haynes: There was a 6-wire cord and they were full duplex; two wires for transmit, two for receive, and two for reader control. They didn't use the X-on X-off characters for reader control. The CCU was just a plain private line blank plate. What I can't remember for sure is how the reader worked. I'm pretty sure they let the distributor step the reader, and just had a relay to enable/disable it. Seems like I remember a reed type relay. I guess there was a power supply in the base for the reader step magnet in any kind of ASR. No doubt the printer loop current was 20ma - no reason to use 60 when you can use 20. I don't know if the keyboard used a 20ma loop or if it just used the thing as a dry switch. But you'd probably want 20ma or so in it to be sure the contacts are kept clean. - from Jack Hart: The DEC Model 33's has a simple circuit board attached to the Call Control which was operated by the computer (I think the computer would send a contact closure to the board on two leads or maybe it sent a voltage to the relay...I never used it). That board had a reed relay which was in series (or was it parallel?) with the switch on the (standard) TD. It couldn't use the "auto" TD since it wouldn't be able to stop the TD. The computer actually turned the TD on and off with the contact closure. The Model 33 usually had a six-wire straight Molex-type of connector for the DEC interface. I think the keyboard contacts were on one pair, the selector magnet driver input on the next pair and then the TD control relay on the third pair. - John Francini provided this: http://www.chd.dyndns.org/pdp8/ It includes: - Teletype Model 33 Line Set wiring printouts - DEC LT33 Teletype Modifications Print Set - some scanned 33 manuals are at: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/ Gil's Random M33 notes: ======================= CCU (Call-Control-Unit) ----------------------- The right side module is the CCU (Call-Control-Unit). Here is my limited knowledge on the interfaces available; the 33s all have some version of CCU, it's just a matter of which one. The most common CCU (I presume) was the simple interface to a 20-milliamp dc loop (or 60-mA) for "Private Wire Service." This one had a blank panel on top and a LINE/LOCAL knob sticking out the front of the case. This is the model that usually got hooked up to computers or to dedicated lines. Then there was a "Computer-I/O" CCU, which had six square buttons sticking out the top (at the front), plus a power button above those. It had a bunch of TTL-logic-level signals as well as a current loop, I believe. One of my 33 manuals discusses this one (others do not) -- it says it has a 20-pin connector, with a bunch of signals that look to be TTL-level. I have not heard of anyone owning one of these computer-i/o units. The "TWX" (Teletypewriter Exchange) machines had a CCU for "Switched-Network Service," which used an external "dataset" (modem) that mounted in the stand, and connected to a conventional telephone line, using FSK tones for communication. These had either a rotary dialer or touch-tone keypad for dialing the phone number, a speaker at the front, six round buttons sticking out the top at the front, four more button/lights up in the middle of the panel, and an optional way-cool auto-dialing card reader. My M33 is a Western-Union-branded TWX machine that has a UCC-3 CCU, with the touch-tone dialer and a 101D modem in the stand. I think almost all computer modems can talk to this M33 modem, when they fall back to the lowest standard (Bell 103?). I think these may have been a moderately-common machine. There was also a UCC-39 CCU which had a built-in modem (but still connected to an external line interface of some sort), and had six square buttons sticking out the top. I think this was used for TWX service also. I don't know how common these were. Then there was a CCU for "Circuit-Switching Service," which apparently refers to "Telex" service, which used a network of private lines. This CCU had a rotary dialer and four round buttons. This is found in Model 32 (baudot) sets, not Model 33 (ascii) machines. The dialer is not for telephone calling -- the unit connects to a special neutral or polarized DC wire line system, and the dialer pulses the line to call a station. It is operationally similar to TWX machines (that used a modem on the phone lines), but it used a special dc line network and central switching system. Interfacing -- Data Format -------------------------- Baud: 110 Data bits: 7 Parity: Even, or Mark Stop bits: 2 Flow-ctrl: None As I understand it, most 33 keyboards generated even parity (but early ones used bit-8 always marking). If you have a terminal emulator set for 8-data/no-parity, the chars will have bit-8 high when the parity bit is marking (for half the chars typed on the 33 keyboard) -- bit-8 high is non-standard ascii, and the terminal may display ibm-extended chars or something else. I believe bit-8 is ignored by the 33 printer, so you should be able to send chars to the 33 when the terminal is set to 7-data/any-parity, or 8-data/no-parity. However, 1-stop bit may be a problem for the 33 to keep up with streaming data. Also, you don't want flow control set to xon/xoff if your 33 has the special option for an auto-tape-reader (it would have the 4-position lever, not 3-pos). Interfacing -- Private-Wire current loop ---------------------------------------- The transmitter loop output is effectively a series connection of the keyboard and tape reader sections (via the rotating distributor). Electrically the TX loop looks just like series switch contacts. The receiver loop input connects to the an electronic circuit, and is polarity-sensitive. It is usually configured for 20-mA, but can be jumpered intenally for 60-mA operation. I have used it with a 30V loop supply, and am told it runs fine down to a 12V loop. The max voltage for the loop is unclear -- I have seen 45V and 70V listed as the max (I'll stay at 30V to be safe). For full-duplex operation, the TX and RX lines connect to two externally-powered loops. For half-duplex operation, the TX and RX lines connect in series to one externally-powered loop. There is an internal loop supply, but it is used in local mode only, so that the keyboard can drive the receiver. I have some schematics for rs-232-to-current-loop converters at: http://www.vauxelectronics.com/gil/tty232/ Interfacing -- TWX dataset (modem) ---------------------------------- For TWX machines with a dataset (modem), you should be able to connect to it (at 110-baud) using a 300-baud computer modem. 300 may be the lowest rated modem standard, but they pass anything up to 300-baud, as they are a simple fsk (freq-shift-key) design, using two tones for tx (mark/space), and two tones for rx (mark/space). The definition of which freq-pair is tx, and which is rx, determines which end is "originate" and which is "answer." Paper Tape Readers ------------------ The "standard" tape reader has a 3-position lever, labeled START/STOP/FREE. An optional "auto" tape reader has a 4-position lever, labeled START/AUTO/STOP/FREE. In the AUTO position, the reader can be commanded on/off remotely. The DC1 (XON) and DC3 (XOFF) control characters are used as start/stop commands for the auto tape reader. Since XON/XOFF chars are used today as software-handshaking flow-control characters, you want to disable software handshaking if you are connecting to a PC. There is a little circuit board mounted in the pedestal stand which provides power for the tape reader. In later 3300-series machines, this was built into the CCU. 3300-Series typewheel/keyboard for "latest" ASCII code, variable customer-activated options (auto/manual tape punch, auto CR/LF function, even-parity keyboard...), and included, as standard, various features that were previous options (paper-low/out sense, DC1/DC2/ENQ/EOT function contacts, end-of-line space suppression...). My manual shows that they have a one-piece cover, so the tape reader/punch didn't look added-on -- but I think early 3300 units had original covers (separate covers for the reader and punch, like the classic asr). The 3300 CCU (Call-Control-Unit) for "private-wire" service (20-mil loop) also included the power supply for the tape reader. Earlier 33s had this little board mounted in the stand. Longevity ---------- The M33 (and the baudot M32) were designed for light-duty use. They did not heat-treat parts, adjusted some things by bending parts... The 33/32 just seems to wear out after a while -- someone said about 1500 hours of runtime will be about it. The elapsed-hour counter in my 33 says 1495, so I should have a good 5 hours left! Your unit may or may not have an elapsed-hour meter, since it was an option. Before you spend big bucks on ebay ---------------------------------- A Model 33 has a four-row keyboard (not including the space bar). A Model 32 has a three-row keyboard (not including the space bar). The 33 is ascii, and the 32 is baudot. You cannot (prctically) modify a 32 into a 33. Documentation ------------- There is a 2-volume desciption/adjustments manual set, and a third parts manual -- the three manuals are often on ebay for $20-$40. Schematics are harder to find. Also check these sites (scroll down): http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/ http://www.chd.dyndns.org/pdp8/ Lubrication ------------ **DO NOT** use WD-40, since it gums up over time. I use 3-in-1 oil for light lubing, 30W motor oil for heavier needs, and lithium grease for gears and cams. Some folks don't even like 3-in-1, and will use a 10W for light stuff. Supplies -------- For paper tape, check out ebay or: http://www.westnc.com/teletype.html Note that the paper-tape for the ASR-33 should be 1" wide, oiled paper. Non-oiled paper or mylar tape will wear your punch pins (so I'm told). The 7/8" or 11/16" paper tape for baudot machines will not work at all. For standard roll paper, check out ebay or: http://www.westnc.com/teletype.html For sprocket-feed paper, you have to special order paper that is 8.5" wide, with the holes on 8" centers. Sprocket-feed machines are pain in the ass, since standard teletype roll paper (or letter sheets) will not feed through, nor will the commonly-available "continuous-form tractor-feed" computer paper which is 9.5" wide, with tear-off sprocket holes. I have located a special-order paper at Office-Max, which is indeed 8.5" wide sprocket-feed, 3500 fan-fold sheets to a box. But this is a "green-bar" computer paper -- I have not found white or buff. I did find an unusal ROLL of sprocket-feed paper once. For platen refinishing, check out: http://www.techspray.com/1612info.htm Teletype used the same ribbon for most of their machines, apparently the same one used in old Underwood manual typewriters. Newer replacement ribbons are nylon and only lightly inked so they don't last as long, but they work fine. I found a decent $3 black ribbon at Staples: Dataproducts #R3300 (replacement for Okidata ML80/82/84/90 printers). SMD (Selector Magnet Driver) Board ---------------------------------- I found un-soldered power resistors on the selector-magnet-driver board in my 33 -- it's a shi**y pcb design, with no thermal considerations at all. I have run across another fellow with the same problem. I repaired it with heavy buss wire and solder. This board amplifies the 20-mA input to 500-mA, for driving the typing mechanism magnet (solenoid). I took some large gauge non-insulated buss wire, and tack soldered several sections of it to the traces from the hot resistor pads (to the next component along the trace). After it was tacked in place, I twisted the wire around the power resistor leads and soldered it, then soldered all along the trace to bond the wire -- this left a nice big mound of solder/wire extending away from each of the power resistor pads. This beefed up the mechanical strength, and added some thermal mass to help pull the heat away from the big frickin' resistor leads. Stuff I need ------------ My 33 is a sprocket-feed machine that uses 8.5" wide paper, with the holes on 8" centers. I'd like to find fan-fold paper in white, buff, or even green-bar. I'd also be interested in rolls of sprocket paper. I could use a copy stand for a 33 (or 32). Also, this TWX machine uses a touch-tone dialer and dataset (modem). It has the UCC-3 version of the 33's CCU (call-control unit), with a touch-tone keypad, and connects to an external 101D dataset. I need to fix the dataset. I have the standard 33 manuals, which have simplified schematics and some theory on the UCC-3 CCU. But, full schematics would let me check things properly. Does anyone have a manual/schematic on the UCC-3? Does anyone have a manual/schematic on the 101D? How about the more-common 101C? Does anyone know the difference between a 101D and a 101C? thanks, gil ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 27 15:02:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: Let the witch trials begin! Re: OT: Re: Going OT Re: (no s ubject) In-Reply-To: <62855.62.148.198.97.1046333017.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > Please, take it to alt.religion.politics.witch.trials.and.middle.east.oil > or similar. Naah. Those guys can NEVER stay on-topic. Right now they're arguing about CP/M and Wordstar. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 27 15:04:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:26 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: <3E5D38A2.7000308@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Eric Smith wrote: > > > The PDP-8 does closer to a million calculations per second. > > While Operate and Jump instructions require 1 memory cycle, > most intructions require two memory cycles.Indirect is a > extra cycle. Asuming about a 1.5 us memory cycle and two cycle > intructions that is 3.0 us per instruction or 333,000 instructions > per second. Still quite fast. Ok, here is what I was referring to: "It can do an average of five thousand arithmetical computations per minute." From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 27 15:08:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:29 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: <002b01c2dde3$1673d5c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, John Allain wrote: > > I read in the article recently pointed out that is published > > on the web that it could do 5,000 calculations per second. > > per Minute! Divide by 60. Slow Man, Slooow! That does make quite a difference, doesn't it? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 27 15:09:12 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:29 2005 Subject: Anyone have Chips & Technologies Super386 documentation? In-Reply-To: <0db501c2dde5$3d60d280$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Douglas Wood wrote: > Call or email Intel. They own C&T now. The datasheet is not on their web > site nor is it in any of my C&T/Intel CD-ROMs. I know. Finding a way through their customer interface labyrinth isn't easy though. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 27 15:41:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > I REALLY have to find my dream machine... A complete > > LNW Model I or Model II (Team) computer... > > This'll make your day,... > I had an LNW. (also a Lobo expansion interface, a PMC81, etc.) > Most of that stuff, I sold cheap at VCF (which is run by your buddy > Sellam). Someone was selling a beautiful LNW80 at the VCF. Nobody bought it. It got offered to later and I bought it. It sits in my garage. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 27 15:42:44 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Univac on eBay In-Reply-To: <2814047759.20030226225514@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > > I can't imagine what the reserve is!. > > At this point, I don't care. I just want to be present when whoever wins the > auction picks up the machine. This is one of the coolest machines I might > ever see in my lifetime. Right here in my little town. Here's hopin'... Have you contacted the seller yet to schedule a time to go check it out, take pictures, notes, etc.? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Feb 27 15:54:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City References: Message-ID: <200302272150.QAA2592229@shell.TheWorld.com> >Well, it will never be exactly an 11/53, since it's in the wrong box, >but you can make it effectively equivalent. I'd remove the CXA16-M >serial multiplexers, which I don't think any normal PDP-11 OSs support, I believe the CXA16s are DHV-like interfaces, RT supports DHVs. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 15:58:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: ASR-33 vital poop In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20030227134748.009cfe60@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <20030227215212.71781.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- gil smith wrote: > Hi folks: > > This is a summary of input from many people, manuals, and prior notes of > mine... Wow! Whatta goldmine! Thanks for sharing it. Re TWX ASR-33, I will attempt to take some pictures of mine the next time I am at the farm - I removed its touch-tone keypad when I was much younger (and foolish) and do _not_ know how to put it back in. :-( I'll also try to get a picture or two of the NOS spare CCU that I got from William Donzelli this past summer. -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 27 16:10:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > There is one possible problem with reading M3/M4 disks on a PC. The > TRS-80s used the Western Digital controller which can read a sector > closer to the index pulse than the NEC controller used in PCs (this is a > simplification, but it should do for the moment). Some PC disk > controllers can't read the first physical sector after the index hole on > a TRS-80 disk. When I was transferring LSDOS 6.3.1 from disk images on > the PC to real disks I found I had to format the disks on the PC, not on > the TRS-80 to avoid this problem. Another method that often works to work around that problem is to not let the FDC see the index signal. For drives like the Tandon, a small piece of opaque tape (write protect tab) covering the hole, or for drives like the Teac that "need" index to believe that the disk is turning, interrupt that signal in the cable. But that "bandaid" kludge also means that many other types of disk errors, such as ERC 4: Sector not found, will be miss reported by the BIOS as ERC 128: Drive not ready. From sipke at wxs.nl Thu Feb 27 16:18:01 2003 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: A&J Stringy Floppy References: Message-ID: <013801c2dead$9d5cac40$030101ac@boll.casema.net> The Sinclair QL had some type of Stringy Floppy build in to the machine Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" To: Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 8:33 PM Subject: Re: A&J Stringy Floppy > > > I have an A&J MicroDrive (Stringy Floppy - The next > > > big thing to rule the world) that I don't have any > > I thought Exatron was the only company to make those... Interesting. > > g. From acme at ao.net Thu Feb 27 16:36:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: TS2068 Message-ID: <200302272232.RAA32521@eola.ao.net> From: Al Hartman Subject: Re: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay Date: 02/26/2003 7:42 PM > > From: "TeoZ" > > > > My first computer was a timex 2068 and learning to > > program on chicklet keyboards sucks. > > But.. Those were pretty nice computers... Still are :>) > Originally, it was intended to be an American Version > of the 48k ZX-Spectrum Computer. > > But, as-is it wouldn't pass FCC regulations. Not to doubt your word, but what is your source for that information? I've had several conversations with George Grimm (President of Timex Computer Corp.) and he never mentioned a problem with the FCC. > I have a U.S. Prototype of the Spectrum, a Microdrive I would be interested to see photos of the prototype. Do you have any Web space you can post photos to? > The company I worked for in the 80's even made a > drawing program similar to MacPaint for it, called > TechDraw, A Spectrum Emulator Cartridge, Disk System, > Terminal Software (for the Timex Modem), and lots > more... Mind if I ask the company name? Later -- Glen 0/0 From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 27 16:39:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <20030227185940.71984.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >--- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: >> Such a setup seems to be popular for 2.11BSD for some odd >> reason. > >Is that sarcastic? I have lots of experience with 2.9BSD (I've had No, I simply find it a little odd that the main OS to be used on systems built from DECserver 550 boards is 2.11BSD. In fact I'm not sure I've heard of anyone running anything else on one. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 16:41:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: A&J Stringy Floppy In-Reply-To: <013801c2dead$9d5cac40$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <20030227223656.25205.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> I have a Stringy Floppy in the back of an ancient bipolar PAL blaster. We never used it. We always used the serial port. AFAIK, it is an OEM'ed Exatron drive. -ethan --- Sipke de Wal wrote: > The Sinclair QL had some type of Stringy Floppy > build in to the machine > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gene Buckle" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 8:33 PM > Subject: Re: A&J Stringy Floppy > > > > > I have an A&J MicroDrive (Stringy Floppy - The next > > > > big thing to rule the world) that I don't have any > > > > I thought Exatron was the only company to make those... Interesting. From bdale at gag.com Thu Feb 27 17:26:00 2003 From: bdale at gag.com (Bdale Garbee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: More stuff rolling into my place ... In-Reply-To: <3E5E5090.9070202@aurora.regenstrief.org> (gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org's message of "Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:58:13 +0000 (UTC)") References: <3E5E5090.9070202@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <871y1txq9f.fsf@rover.gag.com> gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) writes: > Anyone have a HP9000 K class and runs NetBSD, or one of those > Mach kernel based BSD lite systems? Look at www.parisc-linux.org. Bdale From acme at ao.net Thu Feb 27 17:35:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: A & J Microdrive Message-ID: <200302272331.SAA00934@eola.ao.net> From: Robert Borsuk Date: 02/27/2003 10:39 AM > Woohoo, > Timex guys on the list. I can ask a Timex (sort of ) question now. Hmmph. I've been on this list for years :>) > I have an A&J MicroDrive (Stringy Floppy - The next big thing to rule > the world) that I don't have any information on. I would love to use > it with my T1000. It was almost complete in the box. Interface, drive, > cable, even some new stringy floppies still sealed. Does anyone have a > manual for this thing? I've poked around online but haven't seen too > much. Okay, I have the manual and will be gled to scan it and send it to you. HOWEVER -- there are some things you should know . . . First, it will never work with a TS1000 -- only a TS2068. Second, these things came in two versions -- "A" and "B" -- and the different versions use physically different tapes, so make sure you have the proper tapes before wasting any time with it. Third, these things are the most unreliable form a data storage I have ever encountered (see the classiccmp thread a couple of years back titled "World's Crappiest Mass Storage Device" or similar name). Typically, the tapes have a useable lifespan of less than five hours. Then they break. (This is not due to my having one faulty drive -- I've owned several and seen more and they ALL suck!). If you do find a tape that lasts, inevitably the media goes south (no longer readable) and your data goes with it. The drives are "cute," and nice for a collector to have, but completely unreliable. Later -- Glen 0/0 From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Feb 27 17:55:01 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Converting .tap files to real tapes Message-ID: <1046389888.30653.8.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> I've hacked together a 2.11 BSD C program (nothing special, should work on other *nixen) that takes a .tap tape file and spits it onto a real tape. I've tested it with both a TK50 and a TS05 tape drive. It even successfully wrote a bootable TK50 format XXDP 2.5 tape. I'm going to be cleaning up the code and posting it on the web, but for those who can't wait, here is the raw code. It is left as an exercise to the reader to figure out where my MUA breaks the source code lines. ------------ Cut Here -------------------- /* detap.c - 2003 by Christopher L McNabb */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include main(argc, argv) int argc; char *argv[]; { int infile,outfile,ctr; long int offset; long int records=1; long int filecnt=1; long int reclen; long int reclen2; void* buffer; struct mtop tapeeof,taperew; ctr = 0; taperew.mt_op = MTREW; taperew.mt_count = 1; tapeeof.mt_op = MTWEOF; tapeeof.mt_count = 1; if(argc < 3) { printf("Usage: %s infile outdev\n",argv[0]); exit(-1); } infile=open(argv[1],O_RDONLY); if(infile < 0) { printf("Could not open %s\n",argv[1]); exit(-1); } outfile=open(argv[2],O_CREAT | O_RDWR | O_TRUNC,IREAD | IWRITE); if(outfile < 0) { printf("Could not open %s\n",argv[2]); exit(-1); } printf("Rewinding Tape\n"); if( 0 > ioctl(outfile,MTIOCTOP,&taperew)) { printf("\nMTIOCOP REW ERROR\n"); exit(-1); } offset = 0; read(infile,&reclen,4); while(1) { ctr ++; if(reclen == 0) { filecnt++; if(0 > ioctl(outfile,MTIOCTOP,&tapeeof)) { printf("\nMTIOCTOP EOF ERR\n"); exit(-1); } read(infile,&reclen,4); if(reclen == 0) { printf("\nEnd of Tape\n"); close(outfile); ioctl(outfile,MTIOCTOP,&taperew); break; } records=1; continue; } buffer = malloc(reclen); read(infile,buffer,reclen); read(infile,&reclen2,4); if(reclen != reclen2) { lseek(infile,-3,L_INCR); read(infile,&reclen2,4); if(reclen != reclen2) { printf("\nHdr1 and Hdr2 do not match\n"); exit(-1); } } write(outfile,buffer,reclen); fprintf(stdout,"Total Records: %6d File: %6ld Record: %6ld Record Length: %6u\r",ctr,filecnt,records,reclen); fflush(stdout); free(buffer); records++; read(infile,&reclen,4); } close(infile); close(outfile); } ------------------- SNIP -------------------------- -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From grg2 at attbi.com Thu Feb 27 17:57:00 2003 From: grg2 at attbi.com (George R. Gonzalez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Thanks, now TELEX tty for sale Message-ID: <000a01c2debb$5c7f6a60$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> Many profuse thanks to everybody that rounded up information for me about TELEX ttys. I'm in a bit of an embarrasing situation-- after getting this nice Model 32 WU tty, tsting it out, finding out it works perfectly, I finally realize -- I don't have any space for it! My SWL area is very small, already full, plus no easy way to get the TTY down the steep narrow stairs to my lair. So I've reluctantly put it up for auction on eBay. Interested folks can see it at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3010656618 You could do a lot worse than to have a shiny , sleek, and well-working Model 32 TTY. Thanks for reading, George From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Feb 27 18:07:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Megan "Re: decserver 550 in Kansas City" (Feb 27, 16:50) References: <200302272150.QAA2592229@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <10302272359.ZM3748@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 27, 16:50, Megan wrote: > >I'd remove the CXA16-M serial > >multiplexers, which I don't think any normal PDP-11 OSs support, > > I believe the CXA16s are DHV-like interfaces, RT supports DHVs. Wel, that would make sense. Easy enough to check by running RT11 with the correct driver. If so, I stand corrected. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cbajpai at attbi.com Thu Feb 27 18:11:00 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: A&J Stringy Floppy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c2debd$551c52e0$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> I bet Exatron just OEM the drive of other applications. As far as I know Exatron built drives for the TRS-80 market. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gene Buckle Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 2:34 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: A&J Stringy Floppy > > I have an A&J MicroDrive (Stringy Floppy - The next > > big thing to rule the world) that I don't have any I thought Exatron was the only company to make those... Interesting. g. From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Feb 27 18:12:12 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City References: Message-ID: <0cb401c2debd$74e057c0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:36 PM Subject: Re: decserver 550 in Kansas City > No, I simply find it a little odd that the main OS to be used on systems > built from DECserver 550 boards is 2.11BSD. In fact I'm not sure I've > heard of anyone running anything else on one. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > Zane, I would suspect that BSD is because it is FREE, multi-user, and multi-tasking. RT-11, RSX, etc. aren't free. I managed to purchase a RT-11 license back when I worked for a DEC OEM. We made MIL-STD 1553 data bus controllers and sold a complete testing station built around both QBUS and UNIBUS machines. In fact, I wrote the drivers for both RT-11 and VMS that were provided with the systems. As best as I recall, I paid $800+ for the full RT-11, which was, as I remember, about my company's cost. I think retail was and sill is about $1500. I didn't get any manuals, but didn't need them as I had access at work. As for myself, my first choice for running on an 11/53 built out of a DECserver 550, which I am currently doing, would be TSX Plus over RT-11. Too bad about that, huh - I'm not paying for TSX Plus for use in a hobby. RT-11 I have. I MAY try the BSD, as I never played with it in its day. It could even be educational! I'm still kicking myself over the $3,500 I spent on SCO Open Desktop Developers kit, PLUS $500 to join their developers program so that I could get the OS and tools AT THAT PRICE!!! Linux is MUCH more stable and is downloadable for zilch. The (GCC) compiler doesn't dump core if you try to get a listing either, unlike the SCO (Microsoft) compiler. Regards, Stuart Johnson From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 27 18:20:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030227002908.40952.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> from "Al Hartman" at Feb 26, 3 04:29:08 pm Message-ID: > Unlike IBM Drives, TRS-80 drives are usually hard > jumpered for specific positions (Not always, but > internal drives are..) Not so. Most genuine Radio Shack drives had _all_ the drice select jumpers fitted. The edge connectors on the cable had contacts removed so that only the 'right' drive select signal went to each drive. This applies to both internal and external drives. One problem with this is that the side select contact was removed also. People who fitted DS drives had to make up their own cable (and it was a lot easier to make a cable with all the contacts in place and to remove the incorrect jumpers from each drive). > They can be set to positions 0, 1 ,2 or 3. And the > last drive in the chain needs to be terminated (like > SCSI Drives). This is something that worried me when he started swapping drives around. If you don't have the termination resistor in place, it won't work, and may even corrupt the disk (don't ask how I found that out...) > > For external drives, the drives are set to all > selects, and pins are pulled from the drive cable to > determine what position they are in. If you notice on > IBM Floppy drive cables, there is a twist between the > A: and B: connector. That twist brings the select from > the 0 drive to the 1 select pin. All IBM drives are > set to position 1 (second position). The 'IBM twist' also allows for sepearate motor-on signals to the 2 drives, so that the motors can be controlled separately. A total of 7 wires are involved in the twist, but 3 of them are ground. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 27 18:21:17 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030227030843.19148.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> from "Al Hartman" at Feb 26, 3 07:08:43 pm Message-ID: > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > > > > Try re-seating the 'ribbon cable' between the CPU > > board and the disk controller PCB _at both ends_. I > > would estimate that over 50% or disk problems on > > M3s and M4s come from this cable! > > You're right about this. It all starts to come back to > me... *Grin!* > > This was one of the first things I'd do when a machine > came in with disk controller problems. > > I'd also remove the cable totally and clean the > connections with a pencil eraser and possibly some > alcohol. On my M3 (but not on the M4 yet) the cable got to such a state that I removed it totally. I soldered a 20 pin SIL header to the CPU board and used a 40 way IDC connector and cable to mate with it. I soldered every other wire in the cable to the FDC board. Never had any more problems... > But since the behavior changes when he moves the > drives, it sounds like his "0:" drive is bad. I rather gave up when he started swapping parts round!. I prefer to start with a configuration that I know was capable of working... As you said there are possible drive select and termination issues. So I'd want to keep the drives as they were originally, at least for the moment. And I would then start troubleshooting drive 0. In particular, does it do anything when the machine is powered up/reset with a disk in that drive. Does the motor even spin? If not, then I would grab the logic probe and meter and start tracing signals. If you want to do this, I have the schematics, etc to hand, and can talk you through it. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 27 18:22:28 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030227150354.54076.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> from "Al Hartman" at Feb 27, 3 07:03:54 am Message-ID: > > Hmmm. mixing single density sectors and double > > density sectors on the same track? > > No, but one could replace the boot sector with the > correct density boot sector when copying the disk to I believe there were a few copy-protected disks that did have mixed-density track 0s, and would boot on both M1s and M3s... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 27 18:23:45 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Feb 26, 3 05:39:08 pm Message-ID: > On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > For external drives, the drives are set to all > > selects, and pins are pulled from the drive cable to > > determine what position they are in. > > A minor complication with using DS drives, at least as external, . . . > Didn't Radio Shack used pin 32 for drive select 3? > Isn't that "side select"? Yes, but the internal and external drive cables are electically totally seprate, and the select lines for external drives appear on the DS0 and DS1 pins of the external connector (only). That's why if you manage to fit 4 half-height drives inside the M4, you have to run a cable to the external connector on the FDC board also. There is no problem in having 4 DS drives on a M3 or M4 With the Model 1, all drives are external, and there's only one drive connector. You're then limited to 3 drives if you have any DS ones. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 27 18:24:57 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030227192113.24211.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> from "Al Hartman" at Feb 27, 3 11:21:13 am Message-ID: > Remember, a Model IV needs a boot disk with the Model > IV ROM file on it or else it won't boot properly. It > will only boot CP/M+ for the Model IV without this. Come again???? The M4 (NOT M4P) contains a full set of Model 3 ROMs. It will boot any model 3 OS (and will then appear as an M3). When you boot an M4-specific OS, it pages out the ROMs and runs with a memory map contianing 64K RAM. The M4 OSes therefore make no calls to the ROM. The M4P contains only a small boot ROM. It can boot any M4 OS (which wouldn't use the rest of the ROMs in a true M4 anyway), but can't boot M3 OSes without a _model 3_ ROM image that's found on TRS-DOS 6 disks for this purpose. If the machine in question is a desktop M4, there is no problem with the ROM image file. > > Is there an easy couple line program I could type up > > in basic that using INP() and OUT() to test the > > drive controller to see if it can read from > > the disk? I _could_ read the tech manual I have, > > but I tend to be lazy when it comes to re-inventing > > things that other people already have done. > > I don't think so. It might be possible, but I don't > know how to do that. BAISC is no way fast enough to read data from a disk. However, you can talk to the disk controller, and to the drive select latch to turn on drive motors, move the head around, etc. This will at least tell you if the drive is doing anything. > > > One last thing, if it matters... it seems my machine > > was upgraded to 128kB RAM. Is is possible that the > > machine has bad memory that shows up when booting > > from a disk but not when starting up basic? > > If the problem is in the first bank, maybe... Especially if it's in the first 16K of the first bank. This is the region that replaces the BASIC ROM when you boot an M4 disk. Try exchanging the 2 banks of RAM (8 chips in each bank) and see if it makes any difference. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 27 18:27:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Feb 27, 3 01:06:52 am Message-ID: > Aparently, the Drive 0: is bad. Replacing it with the 1: or an Does the spindle motor run on this drive when you try to boot from it? Does the LED come on? > IBM-branded Tandon drive from an IBM 5150 PC, it seems to try to boot from What have you done about the termination resistor pack (the 'odd coloured IC' on the drive logic board)? The machine will not do the right things if the last drive on the cable is not terminated. > > Mostly. It is standard MFM encoding (well, the TRS-80 can do FM (single > > density) too, but the M3 and M4 at least expect the boot sector to be > > double desnisty, and the standard OSes use double density (MFM) encoding > > for the entire disk. > > I would like to try to make an image from the disks I have, is there a > program that works under Linux with a standard floppy disk controller to > read disks and spit out .dsk files? I've not written one yet (although it would not be hard to do). However, I belevie xtrs can do this (BACKUP from a physical disk to an emulated one). Since I don't run X, I can't be sure, though. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 27 18:29:04 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: <20030227033705.25366.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 26, 3 07:37:05 pm Message-ID: > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > What the heck is an ASR33 if not a serial terminal???? > > Umm... well... yes. But that's not what I was thinking of... I was > thinking more along the lines of LA-36s and DECwriter IVs and Actually, the LA36 has current-loop as standard, and the RS232 interface was an option which connected to a TTL-level serial connector on the mainboard.... > everything in between - RS-232 (EIA) dot-matrix serial printing > terminals/serial printers (no keyboard). [...] > > 3rd parties made 4 and 8 port Unibus DL11s, though. > > Haven't seen those. They sound interesting. I have seen (and have Systime made a 4 port one (I have it), it's a hex-height card, with a single connector for the 4 serial ports. I forget who made the 8 port ones I have. There's a hex height board containing the UARTs and the rest of the logic with a TTL-level interface to the distribution panel which contains the RS232 drivers. I assume a current-loop panel existed too. -tony From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Feb 27 18:30:18 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 References: <200302270217.h1R2HvX01602@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3E5EAB29.C1A0B4A@compsys.to> >"Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > I tested a Viking QDT with RT-11 and a 1 gig HD. Of course, I could only use > > the first 30 megs. This one is destined for a BSD machine anyhow. > The Viking QDT and RT-11 can address a lot more of a HD than 30Mb. For > example V5.3 supports 8 partitions (8 * 30 = 240MB), newer versions support > more. I can't remember off the top of my head how much as I'm running a > newer version, but I'm using 100Mb and 200Mb HD's under RT-11. Jerome Fine replies: You are confusing the maximum number of RT-11 partitions that can be easily handled by RT-11 at the same time WITH the maximum number of partitions that RT-11 can see when the command: SET DUn: UNIT=0,PART=p is used. Prior to V5.03 of RT-11, partitions were NOT supported. For V5.03 of RT-11 up to V5.04G, "n" is from 0 => 7 for a total of EIGHT, but p has the range 0 <= p <= 255 for a total of 256 partitions. That means that an 8 GByte drive can be easily managed even though ONLY 256 MBytes can easily be seen at one time. The the command changes to: SET Dnn: UNIT=0,PART=p For V5.05 of RT-11 up to V5.07, "nn" is from 00 => 77 (OCTAL in essence although the actual usage of the device name is RAD50 of all three characters) for a maximum total of SIXTY-FOUR (note that a SYSGEN is required), but p still has the range 0 <= p <= 255 for the same total of 256 partitions. That means that an 8 GByte drive is still easily managed, but now 2 GBytes in 64 RT-11 partitions can easily be seen at one time. NOTE that "UNIT=0" is only in my examples and that any valid physical unit is allowed. Of course if your hard drives are 256 MBytes or less, then any distributed RT-11 monitor for V5.03 of RT-11 and later can look at the whole drive at the same time. However, I hear that Tim Shoppa has a 9 GByte drive that has all 256 RT-11 partitions. > The QDT is a great board, on my /73 I've got a Plextor 8x CD-ROM, DEC TLZ06, > and two PC Removable disk trays (for easy swapping of HD's) hooked to one. > I've successfully run RT-11, RSX-11M, RSX-11M+, and RSTS/E on this setup. > I was originally using 100MB and 200MB SCSI disks, I now use 2GB 7200RPM > Seagate Barracuda's. I also have a number of ST32550N drives as well with 31 RT-11 partitions. Under Ersatz-11 on a PC with a host adapter, I am able to interchange them at will with a real DEC PDP-11, although the host adapter I usually use is a CQD 220/TM. I presume that a real DEC RQZX1 is probably still more expensive - does anyone know? > > I got the QDT for $45 on eBay. Someone put it up with a buy-it-now of $45. > > Someone tipped me off, and I got there first. It pays to keep a sharp eye on > > eBay. I just bought a KDJ11-SD off eBay for $5. This is a nice one: rev -09 > > CPU, 18 MHz, 1.5 megs RAM. Other recent eBay steals: RQDX3 for $10, DESQA > > for $8.50. > Nice, it shows I've not been keeping a close enough eye on eBay. > Zane Those prices are unusual, but do occur if you watch for them. Often they are offered AS IS and you take your chances. When the board still works (which is usually most of the time as it happens), the buyer has struck gold. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 27 18:32:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Structured Design SD20 PAL programmer (was Re: A&J Stringy Floppy) In-Reply-To: <20030227223656.25205.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <013801c2dead$9d5cac40$030101ac@boll.casema.net> <20030227223656.25205.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4362.4.20.168.191.1046391917.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ethan wrote: > I have a Stringy Floppy in the back of an ancient bipolar PAL blaster. > We never used it. We always used the serial port. > > AFAIK, it is an OEM'ed Exatron drive. The Structured Design SD20 PAL programmer, if memory serves. There's a photo at: http://www.iser.uni-erlangen.de:8980/iser/servlet/Anzeigen45?inventarnummer=I0290 There's almost no other information about Structured Design or their products online. IIRC, Structured Design was founded by John Birkner, one of the inventors of the PAL at Monolithic Memories (MMI). Andrew Chan was the coinventor. Birkner coauthored PALASM, I'm not sure if the other coauthor was Chan or someone else, and I also don't know whether Chan was involved in SD. Later Birkner, Chan, and one other person founded QuickLogic, an FPGA company, and it appears that they are still there. MMI was eventually acquired by AMD, the AMD spun off their combined programmable logic business as Vantis, which was acquired by Lattice Semiconductor. Back in 1985 Rich Ottosen and I borrowed one of those to program two PALs for our 68020/68881 coprocessor card for the Apple II: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/apple/apple2/68020/ Like you, we just downloaded the PALASM file to it rather than using its built-in editor and saving the files to tape. In recent years I've picked up a few surplus SD20s. I didn't get any documentation or tapes, though. Last summer someone gave me one Exatron tape to try. I'd like to get more if anyone is selling them. Unforutnately the SD20 can only program the first generation bipolar PALs from MMI. Some other vendors' bipolar PALs work and others don't; I don't have any info on which. The SD20 definitely can NOT program PALCE or GAL parts, so it's not too useful nowdays. Eric From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Feb 27 18:47:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Fortran Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228004220.00b7d538@slave> Gosh, I had /no/ idea that Fortran was a "column-sensitive" programming language; I thought that COBOL was the only one... What other languages are column sensitive? I'd guess at APL, but I'm sure there are others. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 27 18:57:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Fortran In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228004220.00b7d538@slave> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228004220.00b7d538@slave> Message-ID: <4678.4.20.168.191.1046393600.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Adrian Vickers wrote: > Gosh, I had /no/ idea that Fortran was a "column-sensitive" programming > language; I thought that COBOL was the only one... Um, COBOL isn't. It's free-form. Groups of COBOL statements are called paragraphs, and in the early days were written just like paragraphs of prose. Fortunately sanity eventually prevailed, and COBOL has for many years now been mostly written with one statement per line (or less). > What other languages are column sensitive? I'd guess at APL, but I'm > sure there are others. No, no column sensitivity in APL. RPG is *very* column sensitive, much more so than FORTRAN. Python is sort of column sensitive. Nothing has to be in a specific column, but the nesting is controlled by matching indentation, rather than having begin/end tokens. Eric From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 27 19:00:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Fortran In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228004220.00b7d538@slave> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > Gosh, I had /no/ idea that Fortran was a "column-sensitive" programming > language; I thought that COBOL was the only one... > What other languages are column sensitive? I'd guess at APL, but I'm sure > there are others. APL doesn't care. C is certainly NOT column sensitive, EXCEPT that many/some compilers demand that pre-processor directives (#define, #include) be left justified. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 19:07:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Structured Design SD20 PAL programmer (was Re: A&J Stringy Floppy) In-Reply-To: <4362.4.20.168.191.1046391917.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20030228010406.58548.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Smith wrote: > Ethan wrote: > > I have a Stringy Floppy in the back of an ancient bipolar PAL blaster... > > The Structured Design SD20 PAL programmer, if memory serves. There's > a photo at: > > http://www.iser.uni-erlangen.de:8980/iser/servlet/Anzeigen45?inventarnummer=I0290 Similar but not identical. Same color scheme and silhouette, but mine has a much simpler user interface - one or two push buttons and one to three LEDs. Maybe that one is a 20A and mine is a 20? > In recent years I've picked up a few surplus SD20s. I didn't get any > documentation or tapes, though. I have a couple of tapes. Never had any docs. > Unforutnately the SD20 can only program the first generation bipolar > PALs from MMI. Some other vendors' bipolar PALs work and others don't; > I don't have any info on which. The SD20 definitely can NOT program > PALCE or GAL parts, so it's not too useful nowdays. Not surprising in the least. I haven't had to blast any bipolar PALs lately (I have several tubes of certain ones), and if I ever had to build a COMBOARD from scratch, I'd take my PALASM files and convert/ rewrite them for GALs. We used to use over a dozen PALs per board for everything from the memory and I/O map to bus timeout logic to adapting the 8350 to the 68K bus. We probably burned well over 5,000 PALs over the years. I'd wager than I personally did over 3,000 (plus a thousand bipolar PROMs and EPROMs) By comparison, I think I've burned less than 1,000 GALs (for GG2 Bus+ boards and the like). I do not miss parts of the bad-old-days. -ethan From donm at cts.com Thu Feb 27 19:13:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Floppy drive for Zenith 100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > Many 820-II's and 820-I's were field upgraded to 16/8's. The external A field upgrade of an 820-I would amount to a motherboard replacement, I'd think. > 5-1/4's were sucky. The DEM-II expansion case was nice, but the big Boy, were they ever! > 8 inch drives ruled. 980K each. I always thought one of the 8inch 16/8's > would be interesting, but in the end, they'd still only be DOS. The > 820's with the big 8inch Shugart rigid drive nice. Yep! Bulletproof and pretty adequate amount of storage. - don > On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/26/03 7:21:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > > > > > > > Correct, XEROX made a model 8/16 that had two CPUs, one 8 bit and 16 bit. I > > > THINK one was a Z-80 and the other was a 8086 but I'm not sure any more. I > > > used to have the docs for an 8/16 and I've been looking for one but haven't > > > managed to find one yet. > > > > > > > > > > Xerox made a couple of 8/16s. I have one of the 8086 second CPU boards for my > > Xerox 820-II. I was going to install it till a house fire melted the 820. > > > > The original 820 came with dual 8" floppies or an 8" floppy and an 8" > > harddrive and ran CPM. It was a spendy little computer for its time. Then > > they fit Dual 5 1/4" floppies in an external case, came out with a low > > profile keyboard and the add on 8086 Board. They called it the Xerox > > 820II-8/16. > > > > IIRC the design was taken from the Z80 Big Board which was a popular kit at > > the time. It was mounted flat, underneath the CRT and looked much like a > > terminal. > > > > At the time the IBM PC came out the Xerox design was hopelessly outdated. > > They redesigned the case to a rectangular shape with a separate monitor ala > > the IBM PC. They used dual 5 1/2" half height floppies oriented horizontally. > > I never saw an actual one but IIRC they used the same Big Board coupled with > > the 8086 board that was in the 820 and sold it as the Xerox 8/16. > > > > It ran CPM, CPM-86 and MS-DOS ( IIRC to 2.11). However it was not IBM > > Compatible, and did not have IBM graphics. > > > > By the time it was ready the bottom had fallen out of the crossover market. I > > don't think Xerox sold any commercially. A liquidation company sold the > > remainder for about three years. I doubt they sold many, I bet most were > > scrapped for the drives. > > > > The Xerox 820 II was my second computer system and still one of my favorites. > > (The first was State Surplus Litton 1251 that I bought for $25.00) I have had > > almost all of the various models of the 820 go through my hands over the > > years. Besides my original melted one I still have another packed away with > > all it's SW. Someday it will run again. > > > > Paxton > > Astoria, OR > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 19:15:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Thanks, now TELEX tty for sale In-Reply-To: <000a01c2debb$5c7f6a60$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> Message-ID: <20030228011110.46846.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "George R. Gonzalez" wrote: > You could do a lot worse than to have a shiny , sleek, and well-working > Model 32 TTY. Good luck on your auction, but I already have two 33s, a 35 and a 28. :-) -ethan From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 27 19:16:12 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Structured Design SD20 PAL programmer (was Re: A&J Stringy Floppy) In-Reply-To: <20030228010406.58548.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4362.4.20.168.191.1046391917.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <20030228010406.58548.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4739.4.20.168.191.1046394690.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ethan wrote: > Similar but not identical. Same color scheme and silhouette, but > mine has a much simpler user interface - one or two push buttons > and one to three LEDs. Maybe that one is a 20A and mine is a 20? I didn't look closely enough. You're right, mine has just a few pushbuttons as well. Eric From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Feb 27 19:26:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Fortran In-Reply-To: <4678.4.20.168.191.1046393600.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228004220.00b7d538@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030228004220.00b7d538@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228011929.00b7a600@slave> At 00:53 28/02/2003, you wrote: >Adrian Vickers wrote: > > Gosh, I had /no/ idea that Fortran was a "column-sensitive" programming > > language; I thought that COBOL was the only one... > >Um, COBOL isn't. It's free-form. Shurely you jest? I can *well* recall that COBOL (at least, the variant I used, which ran on VAXen) had a requirement that: Comments were marked by a * character in a specific column (5, IIRC) Certain statement blocks were started by a statement starting in column 6 Statements subsurvient to that block had to be indented a further 4 or so columns All this is IIRC; but I *know* that a certain number of columns were reserved. > Groups of COBOL statements are >called paragraphs, and in the early days were written just like paragraphs >of prose. Fortunately sanity eventually prevailed, and COBOL has for >many years now been mostly written with one statement per line (or less). Maybe you used an older version than I did? > > What other languages are column sensitive? I'd guess at APL, but I'm > > sure there are others. > >No, no column sensitivity in APL. > >RPG is *very* column sensitive, much more so than FORTRAN. > >Python is sort of column sensitive. Nothing has to be in a specific >column, but the nesting is controlled by matching indentation, rather >than having begin/end tokens. Hmm, interesting concept; especially for a "current" language. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Feb 27 20:00:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit In-Reply-To: <200302270655350299.20B354A8@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Bruce Lane wrote: > >Is Weird Stuff Warehouse still out in San Jose? I always loved that > >place when I went out to San Jose(not far from the Bay Area). > > They moved over to Caribbean Drive Yeah, but last time I was there (my office is off of Elko Dr, which is off Lawrence Expwy, the "other side" of Caribbean) they were very much closed. --fred From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Feb 27 20:05:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > Aparently, the Drive 0: is bad. Replacing it with the 1: or an > > Does the spindle motor run on this drive when you try to boot from it? > Does the LED come on? Sorry, guess I should have been more specific. The (drive that was 0:) drive spins, and the LED comes on, but the machine still says "Cass?". The other drive (which I had replaced it with) attempts to read from the disk, and either displays "Diskette?" or nothing if there's no disk in the drive or a disk, respectively. > > IBM-branded Tandon drive from an IBM 5150 PC, it seems to try to boot from > > What have you done about the termination resistor pack (the 'odd coloured > IC' on the drive logic board)? The machine will not do the right things > if the last drive on the cable is not terminated. Maybe this is part of the problem. Neither drive has a terminator on it. What resistance is it? I could probably try making one out of spare resistors or buying a new resistor pack for it. Still, it seems strange that it was probably used without a terminator, and that's the cause of the problem. > > > Mostly. It is standard MFM encoding (well, the TRS-80 can do FM (single > > > density) too, but the M3 and M4 at least expect the boot sector to be > > > double desnisty, and the standard OSes use double density (MFM) encoding > > > for the entire disk. > > > > I would like to try to make an image from the disks I have, is there a > > program that works under Linux with a standard floppy disk controller to > > read disks and spit out .dsk files? > > I've not written one yet (although it would not be hard to do). However, > I belevie xtrs can do this (BACKUP from a physical disk to an emulated > one). Since I don't run X, I can't be sure, though. I haven't seen anything in xtrs that lets me use a physical disk, only disk images. Does anyone know if I'm mistaken and xtrs will read disks? Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 27 20:15:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit In-Reply-To: References: <200302270655350299.20B354A8@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <4005.4.20.168.191.1046398317.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Bruce Lane wrote about Weird Stuff Warehouse: >> They moved over to Caribbean Drive Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Yeah, but last time I was there (my office is off of Elko Dr, which is > off Lawrence Expwy, the "other side" of Caribbean) they were very much > closed. I bought some only slightly weird stuff from them less than three weeks ago. From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 20:35:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: TS2068 In-Reply-To: <20030228002456.96726.29179.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030228023152.5721.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> > From: acme@ao.net > > > But, as-is it wouldn't pass FCC regulations. > > Not to doubt your word, but what is your source for > that information? I've had several conversations > with George Grimm (President of Timex Computer > Corp.) and he never mentioned a problem with the > FCC. I have to say that it was anecdotal and repeated in every review of the machine I have ever read. In that day, FCC regs were the big talk about all sorts of computer equipment. It was also said that one of the reasons the TRS-80 Model III was created was because the Model I wouldn't pass FCC regulations as a home computer. Many PC Clones had problems with the FCC also. Used to be when you bought a clone you asked: Does it have an FCC ID? Does it run Lotus 1-2-3? Does it run Flight Simulator? Usually, in that order. So no, I have no hard data to back that up. But, the inside of the TS-2068 is shielded and the Spectrum isn't. > I would be interested to see photos of the > prototype. Do you have any Web space you can post > photos to? Yes, but they'd be diappointing. Basically, it looks exactly like a British Spectrum but it has an American RF converter in it. No discernable difference on the outside. > Mind if I ask the company name? Not at all, it was: Zebra Systems, Inc. www.zebrasystems.inc I did most of the tech support, and wrote most of the manuals and some of the advertising. It was a fun job... We did Timex, Coco (I also worked for Specrrum Projects before coming to Zebra), Amiga and Atari-ST. Zebra was a sister company to Alpha Products and Colorware (Tim Jenison of Amiga Video Toaster fame. In fact, he prototyped the toaster on a Coco.) Regards, Al From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 20:38:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: <20030228002456.96726.29179.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030228023500.91044.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Thanks for all of your corrections, it's been some time since I worked daily with a TRS-80 Model I/III/IV. I sold my 4p several years ago (where most of my Model IV experience comes from). I agree with you vis-a-vis the floppies. Maybe the drive is just off speed, and needs a head cleaning. It could be worse off. Drive speed can be roughly adjusted using the decal on the motor and adjusting the pot on the speed board with a non-ferrous screwdriver (like a TV Adjustment tool). I think when I go to Trenton next May, I'll keep my eye out for a Model III or IV. Thanks again! Al From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 20:43:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: DECUS 12 bit SIG newsletters? In-Reply-To: <03022421170413@jfcl.com> Message-ID: <20030228024006.82988.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Are any of the DECUS 12 bit SIG newsletters online? I just found parts of two of them in my attic (#39 - March 1980 and #40 - Summer-Fall-Winter 1980) and they have some interesting comments about TU-58s and 12-bit machines. It's interesting considering the recent activity regarding TU-58s and emulators. According to (I think) Jim Van Zee, formerly of Laboratory Data Systems of Seattle), being able to send a break is critical for reliable operation of a TU-58 (and gives the exact reasons). The M707 and the M8650 cannot do this without modifications (but he does describe the mod to the M707 and says that it can be done to the KL8E (M8650) but not the KL8EJ (M8655) or KL8A). The author goes on to describe a handler he wrote for OS/8 - a non- system handler. It adds "DTU0" and "DTU1" of 682 OS/8 blocks. He also writes that it is impossible to write a system handler without an external circuit or ROM code (a-la 8K TD8E + ROM) to calculate checksums. His hardware solution is 4 chips grafted onto an M8650 (one of which is an Intel 8748 microcontroller!) Additionally, he mentions a virtual TU-58 server written for the VAX by Jim Gladden, and describes a submission to DECUS of a non-TU58 serial line device handler for the VAX (ASCII files only) that *may* be submission number 8-921 (my handwritten notes in the margin). So... if anyone wants to hang a TU-58 (physical or virtual) off of a PDP-8, we have somewhere to start. -ethan From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Thu Feb 27 20:58:00 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Fortran In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228004220.00b7d538@slave> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030227215447.02152ce0@pop-server> At 12:43 AM 2/28/2003 +0000, you wrote: >What other languages are column sensitive? I'd guess at APL, but I'm sure >there are others. RPG "A successful marriage requires falling in love many times, always with the same person." -Mignon McLaughlin From vance at neurotica.com Thu Feb 27 22:08:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: WTD: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030226180442.3b1f9808@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Joe wrote: > > I'm trying to track down a 387 math coprocessor IC for an old > > 386-based Linux box that's going to be doing a bit of number crunching > > for me. Has anyone here got an AMD or Intel (AMD preferred) 387 > > coprocessor rated at 40MHz > > 40 MHz? I didn't think they made them over 25 Mhz. I have a couple > around here but I'll have to dig them out. However I'm pretty sure that > they're 20 and 25 Mhz. They most certainly did come in 40MHz. There's one in a machine of mine. It isn't Intel or AMD though. I'm pretty sure it's made by Cyrix. Peace... Sridhar From mhstein at canada.com Thu Feb 27 22:09:47 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: Cromemco 68k System 100 on eBay Message-ID: <01C2DDF3.D2833200@mse-d03> ----------------Original Message---------------- From: "Steve Jones" Subject: Cromemco 68k System 100 on eBay Looks like most of a 68k-based Cromemco on eBay. ... I hadn't realized anyone had put a 68020 on the S-100 bus... ---------------------------- Sho 'nuff, but don't feel bad; lots of people only think of 64K Z80 CP/M systems like the classic Z-2 when they think of Cromemco, not the professional UNIX-V systems that gave DEC et al a run for their money in the later days, especially after Cromemco merged with Dynatech in December 1986. To quote from one of their ads listing their technical contributions, they: -Named the S-100 bus -Developed the first micro that used the Z-80 -Developed the first multi-user micro -Developed the first UNIX-like OS for a micro -Developed the first micro using a Winchester HD -Developed the first micro with 16MB RAM and 50MB HD for less than $50,000 -Developed the first colour graphics micro -Developed the first micro addressing >64 KB RAM -Developed the first UNIX V micro -Developed the first micro capable of IBM RJE -Developed the first intelligent I/O interfaces with separate microprocessors on the I/O boards -First adapted mainframe I/O channel processor concept to a micro -Developed the first micro that could auto-boot from ROM -Developed first micro with auto-baud console -Developed first micro capable of self-programming an EPROM -Developed first micro with error correcting RAM -Developed first computer capable of sync'ing to a TV signal and overlaying computer & TV images Considering all that, I'm surprised how rarely I read about them here. Sorry to say we scrapped a number of CS-100/300/400's a few years ago before I discovered this site (and considering the time I've wasted scrolling through the garbage lately in digest mode there are times I've regretted that I did find it). Mind you, when I offered some of the older CS-1/CS-3 and Z-2's here a while ago, no one wanted to pay the shipping from Toronto, so it probably wouldn't have made any difference; fortunately Dan Cohoe, another crazy Canuck, is going to take them off my hands. However, I might still be able to lay my hands on some documentation and software for the 100/300/400 models, so if someone here grabs the one on eBay, I *might* be able to help (no promises, though). mike in Toronto From mhstein at canada.com Thu Feb 27 22:10:50 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: WTD: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC Message-ID: <01C2DDF3.D3B151C0@mse-d03> ----------------Original Message----------------- From: "Philip Pemberton" Subject: WTD: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC Hi all, I'm trying to track down a 387 math coprocessor IC for an old 386-based Linux box that's going to be doing a bit of numbercrunching for me. Has anyone here got an AMD or Intel (AMD preferred) 387 coprocessor rated at 40MHz (-40 part number suffix) that would work correctly with an AMD Am386DX-40? No, before you ask, the 386DX does *not* have a built in mathco - the 486DX was (IIRC) the first DX-series chip with a built-in coprocessor. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you're not in a hurry, I've got a couple here; as noted elsewhere, I don't think Intel made any at that speed in the good old days and IIRC they were all second-sourced. The two that I have are a ULSI and a Cyrix, both 40Mhz, and both on boards using the AMD 386 DX-40.. I think you were also looking for a riser board to allow mounting ISA cards horizontally; might be able to help you out there as well, but would need exact dimensions. Finally, I haven't forgotten about the other stuff you & I were talking about, the PPT punch, reader and tape and the small footprint 386 boards, have just been dealing with a lot of other crap in the last while. Will be in touch ASAP, mike From jwstephens at cox.net Thu Feb 27 22:40:26 2003 From: jwstephens at cox.net (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City References: Message-ID: <3E5EE418.C66784A4@cox.net> Surplus Exchange had goodies? "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > Wandering through the local surplus I found a decserver 550 in a full height > rack. From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Thu Feb 27 22:42:17 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: QBUS SCSI controller for RT-11 References: <200302270217.h1R2HvX01602@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <005e01c2dee1$fce1f5b0$8a00a8c0@arctura> From: "Zane H. Healy" Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:17 PM > > I tested a Viking QDT with RT-11 and a 1 gig HD. Of course, I could only use > > the first 30 megs. This one is destined for a BSD machine anyhow. > > The Viking QDT and RT-11 can address a lot more of a HD than 30Mb. For > example V5.3 supports 8 partitions (8 * 30 = 240MB), newer versions support > more. I can't remember off the top of my head how much as I'm running a > newer version, but I'm using 100Mb and 200Mb HD's under RT-11. I didn't know that. I'll to go back and read the Viking manual again. I mainly use RT-11 for debugging hardware, so it doesn't matter much to me. Once I get things running, I load 2.9BSD on the 11/23 critters, and 2.11 on the KDJ11 based machines. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 From ericj at speakeasy.org Thu Feb 27 22:56:01 2003 From: ericj at speakeasy.org (Eric Josephson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: harris 6100's on ebay Message-ID: Someone is auctioning tubes of harris 6100's on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4663&item=2511601427&rd=1 Am I correct in thinking this is a pdp-8 compatible processor? Can you build a pdp-8 clone like the sbc6120 using these? Regards, -- Eric Josephson From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Thu Feb 27 23:11:01 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:30 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City References: <0cb401c2debd$74e057c0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <006201c2dee5$890ddf60$8a00a8c0@arctura> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Johnson" Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:08 PM > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zane H. Healy" > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:36 PM > > No, I simply find it a little odd that the main OS to be used on systems > > built from DECserver 550 boards is 2.11BSD. In fact I'm not sure I've > > heard of anyone running anything else on one. > Zane, I would suspect that BSD is because it is FREE, multi-user, and > multi-tasking. RT-11, RSX, etc. aren't free. I managed to purchase a RT-11 Another important factor is that 2.11BSD is FREE. The availability of free Ancient UNIX is what got me interested in all this, when I discovered the free license about a year and a half ago. Many thanks to all those that made that possible. That motivated me to dig out some 11/23's that had been mouldering in the basement for the past 15 years and see what I could do with them. Before then, all I had was the RT-11 that came on them, and after playing with UNIX (mainly as a user) for the past many years, I just could not get that excited over RT-11. A main appeal of the PDP-11 and UNIX is that this is where much of the technology that I've been using in my career sprang from: the C language, UNIX, and even today, most microprocessor and DSP architectures seem to derive in part from the PDP-11. For most of my career, I was isolated from the actual PDP-11 machines by the locked door of the computer center, or was using derivatives of that technology, such as the VAX, and SunOS. Now, it's mine, all mine! Just in the last couple weeks I got the networking up on 2.11. This brings back many more old memories of the days when four words: telnet, ftp, mail, and news, just about completely defined the Internet. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 From wild_hare at optusnet.com.au Thu Feb 27 23:19:49 2003 From: wild_hare at optusnet.com.au (wild_hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Nova 2 Front Panel Bulbs References: <200302251954.h1PJsld06485@host.kw.igs.net> Message-ID: <012401c2de5e$27d35a90$57398ec6@newhare> G'day Kevin - We are obsessed with preserving the DG legacy, as reflected at www.NovasAreForever.com. If you need schematics or other docs, just let me know. The DG console lights are indeed 14 VDC, 40 ma. from Hudson I have used some 14 VDC, 80 ma small replacements in some of our machines but expect them to tax the drivers a bit much and burn 'em out prematurely BTW, the current doc list is at www.NovasAreForever.com/archives/manuals/dg.htm. What is your interest in DG at this point...? Or should I just ask what machines to do you have and in what state? ;-) Bruce Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. bkr@WildHareComputers.com P S Please use my standard bkr@WildHareComputers.com or bkr@SimuLogics.com e.mail address rather than this temporary Auzzie address... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Schoedel" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Nova 2 Front Panel Bulbs > >Anyway, I wanted to double check before I replaced all the lights and make > >sure of the voltage level. Does anyone know what that is? > > It's 15V if I recall correctly. > > >I don't have much Nova 2 documentation, > > Technical manual and schematics that I scanned a few years ago are > on Al Kossow's site under http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dg/ > > -- > Kevin Schoedel > From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Thu Feb 27 23:20:57 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127540@MAIL10> Message-ID: <20030227151921.10149.qmail@web20801.mail.yahoo.com> Computer History Museum Visible Storage is open for tours the 1st and 3rd Saturdays of the month, contact them via www.computerhistory.org before hand. Second Saturday of the month is the regular work party. I think we may be working in the Collection area - not sure. Again contact thru web page for details and to sign up. Others will cover surplus places. Here's a list of places in the Valley were former classic computer glory and breakthroughs were made: CDC disk drives were once designed and built at a facility that occupied the vacant field across from Applied Materials HQ on Arques in Sunnyvale. Early HP computers (2100 series, calculators, HP1000, 3000, PA-RISC) were designed and manufactured at the facility at Wolfe and Pruneridge in Cupertino. HP still does a significant portion of system (HP9000) work there. Original HP garage is at 367 Addison Ave in Palo Alto. IBM did all the design and prototype work for the ACS at a facility on Sand Hill Road near 280 in Menlo Park. See http://www.cs.clemson.edu/~mark/acs.html. Site occupied by VC firms. Former CDC facility in Sunnyvale were (at least) networking and some OS work was done. See http://pages.sbcglobal.net/couperusj/index.html. I interviewed there for a network R&D position in the late 70s. Don;t know if the building still exists, CDC doesn't. 99 Notre Dame Avenue is the location where IBM invented the disk drive 50 years ago. See http://www.almaden.ibm.com/sst/storage/hdi/abshistory.shtml. Facility no longer exists. IBM Palo Alto Science Center used to be across the street (approximately) from HP HQ on Page Mill Road. IBM 5100 was developed there along with other mainframe technology. Of course Xerox PARC is down the street off of Central Expressway in Palo Alto. IBM Almaden Labs were a LOT of computing was invented. Intel Museum might be of interest, but I haven't been myself. Enjoy! Lee Courtney --- "Cini, Richard" wrote: > Hello, all: > > I have a business trip out to the Bay Area next > week (and then on to > Los Angeles). I will probably have a few hours to > kill up in the Bay Area. > What are your recommentations for places to visit, > including places for > surplus equipment? > > Thanks. > > Rich > > ========================== > Richard A. Cini, Jr. > First Vice President > Congress Financial Corporation > 1133 Avenue of the Americas > 30th Floor > New York, NY 10036 > (212) 545-4402 > (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From bnansel at mail.nauticom.net Thu Feb 27 23:22:01 2003 From: bnansel at mail.nauticom.net (Robert Nansel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Neon logic Message-ID: I came across reference to a file, LAMP.ZIP, you posted briefly for the Classic Computer list back in '99. Would it be possible for me to get this file? I'm fascinated by the idea of making counters, logic gates, and memory elements using neon lamps, but repeated google searches reveal very, very little hard information (other than there were such circuits). Also, I've read a few pages on early calculators (such as the Anita) using something similar to neon lamps for logic gates and ring counters, though the pictures lead me to believe they are actually 4-lead gas triodes or thyratrons of some kind. Do you know what these beaties actually were? Finally, I've repeatedly run across mention that neon device switching is slow, but how slow are they? You assistance is appreciated! -RLN From blevinsd at tir.com Thu Feb 27 23:23:06 2003 From: blevinsd at tir.com (Don Blevins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: ODEC LR30544 Message-ID: <005c01c2de78$9222ef40$b32ffea9@ultimate> I have an ODEC line printer ( I think a 300 LPM ). I received it in 1985 but never used it. I think it has been used very little. I would like to sell it. Is there any market for such a printer? From ram_suganthi at hotmail.com Thu Feb 27 23:24:09 2003 From: ram_suganthi at hotmail.com (Ram & Suganthi M.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Identify these transputer boards Message-ID: Hi, Below is a post I sent about 3 years ago on some transputer boards that I received which I didnt know what they are. Well, I finally got some answers (nothing is late in this hobby).... Vytal LTD designed the B020 graphics board and the VTM 301 Vector Tram board (as well as the VecTram) which was licensed to INMOS to be sold. The VTM 301 is a pre-cursor to the IMSB420 VecTram module and was the 1st of many production runs. It is not software compatible to the IMSB420. The underside of the tram is where the DSP processor is inserted... The IMSB020 graphics board was also designed by Vytal LTD... The Paradise 1/A was designed by T2SL and is a SCSI Tram. I finally found information on this and scanned the documentation and posted it on the web. The link is http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer/documentation/t2sl/Paradise-1.doc. Yes, it is in microshaft format, but I will soon change that. Now on other transputer stuff I recently aquired like a prototype RS232 to Transputer link board from INMOS... Cheers, Ram ********************************************************************** Hi, I picked up several transputer based hardware including a B020, B008 and several trams including 2 SCSIs trams and an ethernet tram. Among the collection, I found 2 wierd looking ones. One is a tram and the other I got no idea how to use it. The Tram is a size 4 tram and has the following labels: T2SL Paradise- 1/A It contains what looks like an IDE connector and has the following chips: INMOS IMST222C LOGIC L54C80JC-4 and two INMOS IMS1620S55 ICs. The other card has an IMST800D-G20S chip and has the following on the board: VYTAL VTM 301 Copyright VYTAL LTD 1989 On the underside, it has a socket for another transputer chip (maybe??). Oh, there is another board too. It is also a size 4 tram and has a T805-G30S and the board is from INMOS. There is a label on one of the IC chips (written using a pen, so might not be reliable) "B417-17 SE006". Also, the B020 graphics card has no SIMMs on it. Does anyone know what type of SIMMs I can use. Finally, I got an ethernet tram without any cables. What type of cable to I need to use it. It is an IMSB421 tram. The SCSI trams would probably use standard SCSI cables. Am I right. Thanks for you help. Ram _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Feb 27 23:26:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Fortran In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228004220.00b7d538@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228000948.0278bfc8@mail.30below.com> At 00:43 02/28/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Gosh, I had /no/ idea that Fortran was a "column-sensitive" programming >language; I thought that COBOL was the only one... RPG is, but I only saw that enough to cringe... :-O ;-) >What other languages are column sensitive? I'd guess at APL, but I'm sure >there are others. Mmmm... nope. APL is about the least sensitive of all the languages... it's not syntax sensitive (it has none! it borrows a lot of greek characters and symbols to make the language... AAMAF, I'm suprised it didn't get mentioned earlier during the "multi-lingual" language discussion, since it doesn't have a language to translate...) It's not logic sensitive, either... just look at any 20+ line APL program [you wrote] 12 months into the future... it'll take you longer to figure out how you wrote it, than it would take to rewrite it! ;-) Beyond that, I wouldn't know what other column sensitive proggies are out there... >Cheers, Ade. Prost, "Merch" From livewire at netadel.com Thu Feb 27 23:27:05 2003 From: livewire at netadel.com (Live Wire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Weirdstuff Warehouse (WAS:Re: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit) References: Message-ID: <006701c2dee8$cac98aa0$0201a8c0@netadelxp> http://www.weirdstuff.com/sunnyvale/index.htm I go to weirdstuff at least once a week.. sometimes 2 or 3 just to unwind. "The story of my death has been greatly exaggerated" Anyone coming to the south bay SHOULD visit weirdstuff :) NOTE: I'm NOT an employee, and this is NOT an advert - this is merely the definitive answer to the "is weirdstuff even still around?" question. From jss at subatomix.com Thu Feb 27 23:36:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <3E5E4ECE.7000705@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <003901c2904c$b6955770$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <130115740345.20021120011330@subatomix.com> <012601c2906d$d4bc9940$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <161126230239.20021120040820@subatomix.com> <3E5E4ECE.7000705@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <618685268.20030227233304@subatomix.com> On Thursday, February 27, 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi Jeffrey, congratulations to your not so new anymore VAX 6000 and > welcome to the club. Is it running yet? Not yet. It's in my garage. I'm working on my PDP-11/34 first. Next will be the 11/44 and *then* the VAX 6000. I still need a few things for the VAX 6000: - KDM70 - TU81+ (pretty sure) - Spares BTW, is a TU81+ the only thing that will talk to a KLESI-BB? > What do you run it with (like what OS?). Presumably VMS, since I can get that through Encompass; I signed up a few months ago. IIRC LTIC NetBSD doesn't run on it. Is it too new for a 4BSD? > Anyway, there's yet another 6000 waiting for me to take home. I am pressed > on space though. I will probably part out most of those that I have in > excess, See the above list. -- Jeffrey Sharp From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Thu Feb 27 23:38:00 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City References: Message-ID: <007e01c2deea$fc928710$8a00a8c0@arctura> Here is the webpage where I tell exactly how to mod the DECserver CPU into an 11/53. http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/KDJ11.htm In short, you have to reburn the ROMs, and solder in a 1K resistor. On the old (.5 meg) boards, you also have to cut a jumper. And here is the best example of the result to date (this is the description page for the system I just eBayed): http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/ebay/PDP-11_53.htm Most of the DECserver boards I have found have 1.5 megs of RAM, late revision CPUs, and 18 MHz cystals. Last week I got one of these for $5 on eBay. Using a complete rebuild of UNIX as a benchmark, such an 11/53 is only about 20% slower than an 18 MHz 11/83 with PMI memory. When I "diff -r" two directory trees, the 11/53 is actually significantly faster. I drill off the S-box handles, and replace them with a standard latch from the stock that I got from Ethan. My web page shows how to build the console cable. I have the user guide for this board. Does someone want to scan this and put it on the web? You can drill the handle off a DESQA, install a standard latch, short out the fuse connector, carefully disassemble the AUI connectors, and replace the AUI ribbon cable with a longer one. The result is identical to a DELQA. RQDX3 are cheap and easy to find. The only really difficult part is finding (large)hard drives. For that, I've figured out how to use other Maxtor drives (see http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm). But even the substitutes are hard to find. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadden, Mike" To: Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 10:35 AM Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City > Wandering through the local surplus I found a decserver 550 in a full height > rack. > > It had the following boards in it. > > 4 X CXA16-M M3118 > 1 X DESQA-SA M3127 > 1 X KDJ11-SD M7554 > > Bulkheads, power supply, and cables > > I read somewhere that it could be converted to a 11/53 with a minimal > effort. How much trouble? > > Mike > > m m c f a d d e n @ c m h . e d u From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Feb 27 23:39:06 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Neon logic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm fascinated by the idea of making counters, logic gates, and > memory elements using neon lamps, but repeated google searches reveal very, > very little hard information (other than there were such circuits). I seem to remember seeing some stuff about this in old trade magazines, like Proceedings of the IRE or Electronics. Check a good library (maybe on from a tech school). > Also, I've read a few pages on early calculators (such as the Anita) using > something similar to neon lamps for logic gates and ring counters, though > the pictures lead me to believe they are actually 4-lead gas triodes or > thyratrons of some kind. Do you know what these beaties actually were? I don't know, but frankly, I don't see why you would want to use gas triodes over regular triodes for low power logic. If anything, the long term instability of the gas tubes might be a problem (note that neon bulbs degrade quite obviously, but submini triodes last forever). > Finally, I've repeatedly run across mention that neon device switching is > slow, but how slow are they? It depends on the tube. Some of the industrial gas tubes are indeed slow, but they have no need to go fast, controlling motors and relays and things. Some ring counters (Dekatrons) can go reasonably fast - 100 KHz is reasonable. Of course, most reasonable people would call 100 KHz slow. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jss at subatomix.com Thu Feb 27 23:43:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Weirdstuff Warehouse (WAS:Re: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit) In-Reply-To: <006701c2dee8$cac98aa0$0201a8c0@netadelxp> References: <006701c2dee8$cac98aa0$0201a8c0@netadelxp> Message-ID: <609114706.20030227234014@subatomix.com> On Thursday, February 27, 2003, Live Wire wrote: > http://www.weirdstuff.com/sunnyvale/index.htm Where's all their classic stuff? All I see is 5-year-old PC/Mac stuff. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Thu Feb 27 23:49:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Thanks, now TELEX tty for sale In-Reply-To: <000a01c2debb$5c7f6a60$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> References: <000a01c2debb$5c7f6a60$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> Message-ID: <489478929.20030227234618@subatomix.com> On Thursday, February 27, 2003, George R. Gonzalez wrote: > I'm in a bit of an embarrasing situation-- after getting this nice Model > 32 WU tty, tsting it out, finding out it works perfectly, I finally > realize -- I don't have any space for it! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3010656618 You've got my bid. > You could do a lot worse than to have a shiny , sleek, and well-working > Model 32 TTY. I have one that *might* be functional, but my procedure is to have two of everything so that there are spare parts. This is in much better condition than mine. I hope I win it. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Thu Feb 27 23:52:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Univac on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49643416.20030227234902@subatomix.com> On Thursday, February 27, 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Have you contacted the seller yet to schedule a time to go check it out, > take pictures, notes, etc.? Sort of. When the high bidder picks it up, I now have permission from the seller to be there and see it. It will be a real treat. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. -- Jeffrey Sharp From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Fri Feb 28 00:04:00 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City References: Message-ID: <00a901c2deee$b7ab6140$8a00a8c0@arctura> Actually, instead of hacking up the boards, you ought to grab the whole rack. Do the CPU mods, shove in an RQDX3, figure out how to mount and power a hard drive, and you're in business. On my 11/53 that's still in a DECserver chassis, I soldered the disk power leads to the dummy load board, and the drive rests on the unused card guides on the left half of the rack. I drilled out the rivets and removed all the useless superstructure.(unless you have the rack that has a drive bay up top). Oh yes, for the RQDX3, you'll either need a distribution board (M9058 or the thing on the back of a BA23 backplane) or see http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/rqdx3.htm for how to build a cable. For the console you'll need MMJ cables and adapters which can be bought from www.l-com.com. Beware, the 9-pin MMJ adapter they sell is probably VAX compatible, not for the PC COM1: port. I bought the kit version and wired it up myself. The VT420 is the best terminal to look for. The 11/53 can do up to 38400 baud. Did you see the "DECserver" on eBay that is actually a microVAX III (KA-650)? -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadden, Mike" To: Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 10:35 AM Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City > Wandering through the local surplus I found a decserver 550 in a full height > rack. > > It had the following boards in it. > > 4 X CXA16-M M3118 > 1 X DESQA-SA M3127 > 1 X KDJ11-SD M7554 > > Bulkheads, power supply, and cables > > I read somewhere that it could be converted to a 11/53 with a minimal > effort. How much trouble? > > Mike > > m m c f a d d e n @ c m h . e d u From ssj152 at charter.net Fri Feb 28 00:06:02 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City References: <007e01c2deea$fc928710$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <0d4b01c2deee$a456cd50$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Engdahl" To: Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:33 PM Subject: Re: decserver 550 in Kansas City > Here is the webpage where I tell exactly how to mod the DECserver CPU into > an 11/53. > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/KDJ11.htm > > In short, you have to reburn the ROMs, and solder in a 1K resistor. On the > old (.5 meg) boards, you also have to cut a jumper. > Jonathan, what I want to know is how do you connect the RX50 and RD(whatever) hard drive to the RQDX3? Did you use standard DEC parts or did you make something? If you used DEC parts, could you please post a list of what is needed? I have the RX50, KDJ11, DEQNA, images of the 11/53 ROMS, and am searching for a suitable hard drive. Anyone reading this with a decent (size, quality, and price) hard drive for sale feel free to contact me off list... Thanks so much for posting the original stuff - seeing that is what got me back into PDP-11 related systems. My other systems are VAX and Alpha, all running OpenVMS. Stuart Johnson From jss at subatomix.com Fri Feb 28 00:09:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: More Stuff in Norman, OK Message-ID: <8310665476.20030228000604@subatomix.com> Forget the Univac III, get yer Cray now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403082724 What the heck is going on here? Next thing, we'll find out the ENIAC was secretly hidden away in some building on North Base. -- Jeffrey Sharp From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Feb 28 00:13:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Neon logic References: Message-ID: <3E5EFC6F.9080308@jetnet.ab.ca> Robert Nansel wrote: > I came across reference to a file, LAMP.ZIP, you posted briefly for the > Classic Computer list back in '99. Would it be possible for me to get this > file? I'm fascinated by the idea of making counters, logic gates, and > memory elements using neon lamps, but repeated google searches reveal very, > very little hard information (other than there were such circuits). Yes you can. I had a old electronic magazine* around years 1960 to 1962 that had such a beast.Alas the box I had my old magizines in got wet. :( They switch the same way as a tunnel diode switches, using negitive resistance and brute force. Inputs are capacitor coupled if I remember right with diode logic for gating logic. > Also, I've read a few pages on early calculators (such as the Anita) using > something similar to neon lamps for logic gates and ring counters, though > the pictures lead me to believe they are actually 4-lead gas triodes or > thyratrons of some kind. Do you know what these beaties actually were? They had decade counters but I don't have any links handy. Nixie tubes are nice too. > Finally, I've repeatedly run across mention that neon device switching is > slow, but how slow are they? I think 1000 cycles per second do to RC time constants. Any how don't use neon bulbs with a built in dropping resistor. Paint the bulb black to prevent light from triggering the devices. Cosmic rays may do that too. > You assistance is appreciated! > Ben. * those days magazines had few ads and profesional content. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Feb 28 00:20:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: harris 6100's on ebay References: Message-ID: <3E5EFE3C.5040502@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Josephson wrote: > Someone is auctioning tubes of harris 6100's on ebay: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4663&item=2511601427&rd=1 > Am I correct in thinking this is a pdp-8 compatible processor? > Can you build a pdp-8 clone like the sbc6120 using these? Yes you can, but real PDP 8 I/O and memory over 4kw require other support chips. Also since the chip is CMOS speed and output drive is limited. Until you can get a data sheet on the devices it may be wise to not get the chips. Intersel made the 6100's first I think. Ben. From tim.myers at sunplan.com Fri Feb 28 01:08:00 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Fortran In-Reply-To: <4678.4.20.168.191.1046393600.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 28/2/03 12:53 am, "Eric Smith" wrote: > Python is sort of column sensitive. Nothing has to be in a specific > column, but the nesting is controlled by matching indentation, rather > than having begin/end tokens. OCCAM has this behaviour, too. Sent using the Entourage X Test Drive. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 28 02:44:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit In-Reply-To: <20030227151921.10149.qmail@web20801.mail.yahoo.com> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127540@MAIL10> <20030227151921.10149.qmail@web20801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32879.64.169.63.74.1046421647.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Lee writes about the Computer History Museum: > Second Saturday of the month is the regular work party. Is there any particular reason why that has to be on the second saturday, vs. one of the other saturdays? I can't go that saturday because too many other events are scheduled for the second saturday of each month, but I don't have a single event scheduled for the other saturdays. Sigh. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 28 02:48:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Fortran In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228000948.0278bfc8@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228004220.00b7d538@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030228000948.0278bfc8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <32880.64.169.63.74.1046421866.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >>What other languages are column sensitive? I'd guess at APL, but I'm >> sure there are others. Roger Merchberger wrote: > Mmmm... nope. APL is about the least sensitive of all the languages... Not quite. APL does basically require that a statement be confined to one line of input, though the line can potentially be quite long. So it's not completely free-form like some languages. > it's not syntax sensitive (it has none! It most certainly does have syntax, though it's quite simple. And it's quite easy to get syntax errors. But because most characters can serve as both monadic and dyadic functions, it's also possible to have a typo that is valid syntax but does something quite different than what you intended. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 28 02:54:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Weirdstuff Warehouse (WAS:Re: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit) In-Reply-To: <609114706.20030227234014@subatomix.com> References: <006701c2dee8$cac98aa0$0201a8c0@netadelxp> <609114706.20030227234014@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <32886.64.169.63.74.1046422247.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Where's all their classic stuff? All I see is 5-year-old PC/Mac stuff. In the "As-is" room, of course. But if you expect to see a big pile , of course you'll be disappointed, since those only show up occasionally. They used to put stickers on some items saying "Guaranteed not to work". I bought an Atari 800 with such a sticker once, wanting it just as a source of spare parts. I discovered that it worked just fine, so I went back and complained. They were baffled. If I'd been in their position, I would have told the customer "fine, bring it back and we'll break it for you." The only time I went to their old Milpitas location, I passed on several things thinking that they were too expensive, such as an IBM 5100 for which they wanted the princely sum of $200. D'oh! From ericj at speakeasy.org Fri Feb 28 03:23:01 2003 From: ericj at speakeasy.org (Eric Josephson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: harris 6100's on ebay In-Reply-To: <3E5EFE3C.5040502@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > > Someone is auctioning tubes of harris 6100's on ebay: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4663&item=2511601427&rd=1 > > Am I correct in thinking this is a pdp-8 compatible processor? > > Can you build a pdp-8 clone like the sbc6120 using these? > > Yes you can, but real PDP 8 I/O and memory over 4kw require other > support chips. Also since the chip is CMOS speed and output drive > is limited. Until you can get a data sheet on the devices it may > be wise to not get the chips. Intersel made the 6100's first I think. Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I wasn't wise enough to wait for it. :} I found a nice datasheet for the im6100 on pdp8.net, but nothing on the 6102 or the other support chips. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Feb 28 04:03:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <0d4b01c2deee$a456cd50$0200a8c0@cosmo>; from ssj152@charter.net on Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 07:00:05 CET References: <007e01c2deea$fc928710$8a00a8c0@arctura> <0d4b01c2deee$a456cd50$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <20030228102328.A41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.28 07:00 Stuart Johnson wrote: > Jonathan, what I want to know is how do you connect the RX50 and > RD(whatever) hard drive to the RQDX3? There are different distribution panels that split the 50 pin cable from the RQDXx. The M9058 dist panel for the BA123 looks like a double QBus card and sits in "QBus slot 13" in the BA123. The BA23 dist panel is mounted inside the enclosure on the back of the QBus backplane. I have the wiring of this panel, I can mail it to you when you want to build your own dist panel. There is a BA213 dist panel that replaces the front panel in a BA213 and has some additional switches LEDs to reset the CPU etc. I think it is not that easy to rebuild this. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dbwood at kc.rr.com Fri Feb 28 04:21:01 2003 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Fortran References: Message-ID: <040c01c2df12$57bcedc0$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> RPG (Very column oriented!) SNOBOL Most assembly languages Almost all computer languages have some positional requirements built into their syntax. Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Myers" To: Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 1:04 AM Subject: Re: Fortran > On 28/2/03 12:53 am, "Eric Smith" wrote: > > > Python is sort of column sensitive. Nothing has to be in a specific > > column, but the nesting is controlled by matching indentation, rather > > than having begin/end tokens. > > OCCAM has this behaviour, too. > > Sent using the Entourage X Test Drive. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Feb 28 05:34:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: harris 6100's on ebay References: <3E5EFE3C.5040502@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <016201c2df1d$20a75cc0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ben franchuk" To: Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 1:14 AM Subject: Re: harris 6100's on ebay > Eric Josephson wrote: > > Someone is auctioning tubes of harris 6100's on ebay: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4663&item=2511601427& rd=1 > > Am I correct in thinking this is a pdp-8 compatible processor? > > Can you build a pdp-8 clone like the sbc6120 using these? > > Yes you can, but real PDP 8 I/O and memory over 4kw require other > support chips. Also since the chip is CMOS speed and output drive > is limited. Until you can get a data sheet on the devices it may > be wise to not get the chips. Intersel made the 6100's first I think. You can find the Harris 6100 datasheet here... http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Downloads/hd6100.tif > Ben. Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Feb 28 05:54:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC References: <200302270238.SAA29378@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <018f01c2df1f$d6c26700$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J. Korpela" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:38 PM Subject: Re: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC > > They come up on epay all the time, pick yer flavor. I just got a 40MHz > > Cyrix Fasmath chip for $2 (includes $1 shipping) a week ago. Supposedly > > clock for clock it's the fastest of the '387 FPUs, but IDK. Popped right in > > to to my P70. > > It was a tiny bit faster than the AMD and Intel parts depending upon instruction > mix. Ah. Was it a 100% clone, or were there extra added instructions? > > > I'm still looking for a set of eight 2MB 72 pin IBM SIMMs with presence > > detect, and a Cyrix 486Drx2, which is a 486 with a '386 pinout, if anyone > > has a spare. > > It's not quite a 486. It actually is a double clocked 386 with a small > internal L1 cache. It doesn't share most of the instructions unique to the 486. Ok. I thought it was a 486. > > I don't currently have a DRX2, but I do have a DRX, which is essentially the > same thing without the clock doubled core. The L1 cache made it about 20% > faster than an equivalently clocked 386. You had to explicitly turn on the > cache, and set regions as uncachable. (Caching the video card usually made > for problems.) Guess I want the DRX2 then. No sense in spending all that time on something just to have it be less than optimal. I'll have to dig up reference sheets on 'em. BTW, what do you run on the DRX? I'm upgrading an IBM P70 luggable, the target OSes are AIX-PS/2 and Solaris in particular, and then as many others as will work. > > Eric Bob From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 08:35:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: harris 6100's on ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030228142947.52867.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Yes you can, but real PDP 8 I/O and memory over 4kw require other > support chips. Also since the chip is CMOS speed and output drive > is limited. The 6120 is also CMOS and look what Bob Armstrong has done with it. DECmates run at 8MHz, not quite as fast as a PDP-8/a, but in the ballpark. Much faster than a PDP-8/S :-) > Until you can get a data sheet on the devices it may > be wise to not get the chips. Intersel made the 6100's first I think. They did, 1976. Also, the 6100 is used in the VT78 (one of the only PDP-8 variants I _don't_ have), so I bought a tube too, in case I ever get a VT78. I doubt I'll be able to find a single part for $15 shipped if go looking later, let alone 11. The 6120 goes for $50 new. More info at http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dec-faq/pdp8/section-6.html -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 08:39:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: More Stuff in Norman, OK In-Reply-To: <8310665476.20030228000604@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030228143313.63567.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Forget the Univac III, get yer Cray now: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403082724 Hmm... lots of activity with ultra-low feedback bidders... I'm glad I'm not tangled up in that auction. Mighty suspicious. -ethan From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Feb 28 08:47:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 References: <20030226005051.57596.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E5F7580.16BDBC20@compsys.to> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > Serial pots were used for things other than terminals... Many printers > > had serial interfaces, as did the TU58 (which is what started this > > discussion). > True, but serial terminals were not common when the PDP-11/10 was > being sold new. In the DEC world, it was the day of ASR-33s and > parallel line printers on the low end. Five years later, serial > printers were much more common (LA-36 and newer). Jerome Fine replies: I am not sure exactly when the system I shall refer to was first installed, but I arrived on the scene around 1979 after it had been running for a few years. I understand that the initial installation used a PDP-11/10 with a DZ11 to communicate with the field plus the usual single DL11 for the console which was, if I remember correctly, a VT52. The system ran RT-11 with 2 RK05 disk drives. I think that the first version used was V2.0 something. Later the production system was upgraded to a PDP-11/34A and Multi-User Basic was added which ran in the Background while the original program was run in the Foreground. The DZ11 used all 16 channels to communicate with many other terminals spread around the factory. The DZ11 was a great improvement over the DL11 since it contained a SILO for incoming characters. Whereas the DL11 would lose a character if the ISR (Interrupt Service Routine) did not manage to handle the previous character quickly enough, the DZ11 was able to store up to 32 (or perhaps 64) characters in the SILO. In addition, after each character was processed, the ISR was able to determine if any characters remained in the SILO, so the overhead of exiting and re-entering the ISR was avoided. > > While timesharing was rare on machines without memory managemnt, it was > > not uncommon to have 3 or 4 serial ports in such machines. > Again, my experiences in the DEC world are that Unibus RT-11-class > machines ( less than 28KW of RAM, one or two disk devices, no MMU ) > tended not to have multiple DL-11s. I'm not saying it never happened, > it just wasn't common. It was much more common when the low end > switched to the Qbus platforms. Until about 1982, the 11/23 was the high end in the Qbus systems. Is that what you meant? > > Be warned that the DL11 (simple serial port) and the DZ11 (etc -- > > 'multiplexer' serial ports) look very different in software! Older OSes > > may well only support the former. > True. Good call. I have never used a DZ-11 under any version of > RT-11 and have no idea how it would work out. I have used DZ-11s > with RSTS and RSX. Works great. I think that the DZ11 was first supported under RT-11 in V4.00, but I can't be sure. That would have been at least by 1980. Certainly by 1983 when V5.00 of RT-11 was released, I am almost certain. The DZ11 could support up to 16 channels on the Unibus. On the Qbus, the DZV11 could support ONLY 4 channels. As far as I remember, the DZ11 and the DZV11 looked the same to RT-11. The DHV11 was not supported by RT-11 until V5.06 in August 1992. TSX-PLUS supported the DHV11 many years before that. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 09:29:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: <3E5F7580.16BDBC20@compsys.to> Message-ID: <20030228152538.23347.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > The DZ11 used all 16 channels... The DZ11 I am familiar with is a single card with 8 UARTs. Could you be thinking of a different serial card, or were there perhaps two DZ11s? > Until about 1982, the 11/23 was the high end in the Qbus systems. > Is that what you meant? What I meant was when people interested in cheaper PDP-11s switched from buying 11/04s and the like (new) went to buying 11/03s and 11/23s without the MMU. Software Results changed from building HASPBOXes out of PDP-11/04s to 11/23s around 1982 or so, for example, as the cheapest box that they could use to run the Bisync protocol engine that preceded the COMBOARD. From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Feb 28 09:35:01 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Neon logic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > > I'm fascinated by the idea of making counters, logic gates, and > > memory elements using neon lamps, but repeated google searches reveal very, > > very little hard information (other than there were such circuits). > > I seem to remember seeing some stuff about this in old trade magazines, > like Proceedings of the IRE or Electronics. Check a good library (maybe > on from a tech school). > > > Also, I've read a few pages on early calculators (such as the Anita) using > > something similar to neon lamps for logic gates and ring counters, though > > the pictures lead me to believe they are actually 4-lead gas triodes or > > thyratrons of some kind. Do you know what these beaties actually were? > > I don't know, but frankly, I don't see why you would want to use gas > triodes over regular triodes for low power logic. If anything, the long > term instability of the gas tubes might be a problem (note that neon > bulbs degrade quite obviously, but submini triodes last forever). I've looked recently inside an Anita MK IV calculator and a doubt that you would want to use that many tubes with heaters in that small a case... The thyratons it uses are cold cathode and quite small. It also uses 1 Decatron tube... > > > Finally, I've repeatedly run across mention that neon device switching is > > slow, but how slow are they? > > It depends on the tube. Some of the industrial gas tubes are indeed slow, > but they have no need to go fast, controlling motors and relays and things. > Some ring counters (Dekatrons) can go reasonably fast - 100 KHz is > reasonable. Of course, most reasonable people would call 100 KHz slow. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > Peter Wallace From spc at conman.org Fri Feb 28 09:42:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Fortran In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at Feb 27, 2003 04:56:50 PM Message-ID: <200302281538.KAA15986@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" once stated: > > APL doesn't care. > > C is certainly NOT column sensitive, EXCEPT that many/some compilers > demand that pre-processor directives (#define, #include) be left > justified. True to an extent, but even modern C compilers expect the '#' to be in the first column, while the rest of the directive can be indented, so my code (when I nest directives) tend to look like: #ifndef CGILIB # ifdef DDT # define D(x) x # else # define D(x) # define NDEBUG # endif # include # define ddt assert # ifndef FALSE # define FALSE 0 # endif # ifndef TRUE # define TRUE !FALSE # endif #else # include "types.h" # include "ddt.h" #endif (The code this was pulled from can be used stand alone (where I define some constants) or used in a much larger project (where the defines I do define here are defined in types.h and ddt.h)). I find this easier to follow then if everything was flushed left. -spc (And aren't most assemblers column sensitive too?) From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 10:01:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Timex/Sinclair 2068 Message-ID: <20030228155817.27723.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> to: Here's a cool website about the 2068 with pictures of the old Zebra (Portugese) Disk Systems. http://www.timexsinclair.org/ Enjoy! I had fun reading these articles... I still have half of a disk system here, and my friend Tom in NJ has the other half I'm sure I can grab from him some time... Al From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Feb 28 10:03:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <618685268.20030227233304@subatomix.com>; from jss@subatomix.com on Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 06:33:04 CET References: <003901c2904c$b6955770$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <130115740345.20021120011330@subatomix.com> <012601c2906d$d4bc9940$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <161126230239.20021120040820@subatomix.com> <3E5E4ECE.7000705@aurora.regenstrief.org> <618685268.20030227233304@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030228164949.C41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.02.28 06:33 Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > What do you run it with (like what OS?). > Presumably VMS, since I can get that through Encompass; I signed up a > few months ago. > IIRC LTIC NetBSD doesn't run on it. Is it too new for a 4BSD? LTIC? 4BSD developement on the VAX stoped at the late 4.3BSD age. Once I got 4.3BSD-Reno running on MV 3900 (KA655) and AFAIK this was the last CSRG BSD release with working VAX support as 4.4BSD/VAX is broken. Reno was at the time of the VAX6k... There are some bits of VAX6k / XMI support in NetBSD, but it is very likely that it is not enough to get NetBSD running on a VAX6k. It seams that the lack of VAX6k support in NetBSD is mainly caused by insufficient docs about XMI. I know that they have lots of VAX6k machines at northern Sweden where the NetBSD/VAX portmaster lives... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rickb at bensene.com Fri Feb 28 10:11:00 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: <1813.4.20.168.191.1046289727.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <005101c2df43$97f23130$030aa8c0@camaro> The big part of the difference in speed between the PDP-8 and the Monrobot XI is that the PDP-8 used random-access magnetic core memory as the main memory and a parallel architecture, and the Monrobot machines used magnetic drum and a bit-serial architecture. In drum-based architectures, all operations, including instruction fetch, operand fetch, and (not sure with the Monrobot XI, but some machines did have all internal registers also located on the drum) register access had to wait for the drum to rotate to the proper location in order for the data to be read. In many cases, the master timing for the machine was generated by a dedicated pre-written clock track on the drum. Thus, the speed of the machine was limited by the rate of rotation of the drum and the density of the clock track. Along with all of the waiting time for the drum, the logic of the machines of this ilk was serial, which mated well with the fact that the data comes streaming off the drum in bit-serial form (in most cases). Serial logic is inexpensive...but slow (observe the performance differences between a PDP-8/L and a PDP-8/S). Another key difference between the early PDP computers and devices like the Monrobot machines is that the PDP was designed as a general-purpose computer, with expandability and a generalized I/O architecture to support a wide range of interfaces. Machines such as the Monrobot series were quite fixed in their architecture. There was no way to add more memory, or interface to more than a few external devices. The architecture was quite fixed. The Monrobot series of machines started out as early desk-sized sequence-controlled electronic calculators, with decimal arithmetic, and math-oriented functions. These machines were originally designed for automating accounting and bookkeeping operations. Some made their way into engineering and scientific persuits, though. The machines had little in the way of bit manipulation functions. As time and the marketplace went on, the Monroe machines (and others of the time, such as those made by Smith Corona Marchant (SCM), and Friden) began to take on more computer-like functionality...switching from decimal-based arithmetic to true binary, adding boolean logic functions, and providing more sophisticated branch and looping functionality...moving the machines from the realm of sequence-controlled calculators to true computer capabilities. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 10:19:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Position sensitive languages (was Re: Fortran) In-Reply-To: <200302281538.KAA15986@conman.org> Message-ID: <20030228161418.454.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" once stated: > > ...many/some [C] compilers demand that pre-processor directives > > be left justified. > > True to an extent, but even modern C compilers expect the '#' to be in > the first column, while the rest of the directive can be indented, so > my code (when I nest directives) tend to look like: > > #ifndef CGILIB > # ifdef DDT > # define D(x) x > # else . . . I have seen that and it works most places. I have also worked with compilers that do *not* want to see any whitespace between the # and the directive (stupid parsers) > I find this easier to follow then if everything was flushed left. Agreed. I use it where possible. > -spc (And aren't most assemblers column sensitive too?) Sometimes. The ones I've used (6502 and 68000 mostly) don't like to see instructions on the far left, but you aren't required to space over 6 or 8 cols just to get past the labels. It kinda depends on when the assembler itself was written. I've seen some really stupid ones for the 6502 written in BASIC. :-P -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 28 10:29:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: ODEC LR30544 In-Reply-To: <005c01c2de78$9222ef40$b32ffea9@ultimate> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030228111159.0fc7c172@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I used to work on the ODEC printers. I wouldn't give you a nickel for everyone of them every built! Joe At 10:54 AM 2/27/03 -0500, you wrote: >I have an ODEC line printer ( I think a 300 LPM ). I received it in 1985 but >never used it. I think it has been used very little. I would like to sell >it. Is there any market for such a printer? From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Feb 28 11:04:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Cromemco 68k System 100 on eBay Message-ID: <200302281659.h1SGxig08171@io.crash.com> > Sho 'nuff, but don't feel bad; lots of people > only think of 64K Z80 CP/M systems like the > classic Z-2 when they think of Cromemco I was aware Cromemco had some sort of 68000-based systems with "real" Unix later in the game. But having only heard rumors I never guessed they used an '020, and didn't realize they had System V and all those goodies. Glad to learn of it, and all those firsts. By contrast, I was well aware of the many CPU options from CompuPro (Godbout) including the CPU-68k, which I used, and the 32016, which I'd still like to find someday... Somewhere around here I have some S-100 Journals (I think that's the name) that I found on the newsstand in the late 80's. Be interesting to see what was being listed besides 386s and Concurrent DOS. --Steve. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 11:12:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? Message-ID: <20030228170843.91393.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> I know exactly what to do under UNIX, but I'm attempting to help out someone else - I have the Montagar Hobbyist CD-ROM and I'm trying to create an ISO file to feed to SIMH. We have tried three different CD-ROM slurping programs from shareware.com and download.com, but no success. They seem to have heartburn because the disc is not mounted under Windows. Has anyone gone from CD-ROM to running VAX under Windows? How did you get files off the distro? Thanks, -ethan From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Feb 28 11:14:01 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England Message-ID: <200302281710.h1SHALg08199@io.crash.com> Looks like there's a DEC MINC-11 in good condition to be had for free in the North of England. Please, somebody go save this thing from the skip! Maybe Adrian "Two Sheds" Vickers can use it for a climate control system for his garage... ;^) Here's the post: ======== From: eclunan1@aol.comnotanysp (Eclunan1) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Date: 28 Feb 2003 10:07:37 GMT Organization: AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk Subject: MINC 11 free in north west England Message-ID: <20030228050737.11472.00000175@mb-fx.aol.com> For anyone interested, I have a Digital Minc-11, type RX02M-MD, serial number WS1840, with clock and d/a plug-in modules, and Digital RX02 twin 10" floppy disk drive unit. Also two keyboard/printer units, Digital Decwriter II and III. Also one unopened and a part box of 8" floppies, and a box of manuals. In south Cumbria, England. Free to take away. You will need a decent sized estate car or a trailer. Otherwise going to skip. Cheers Eddie ======== Ade: I'm jealous is all. I get to go drive on the track every now and again with a car club, but no racing. Oh, and that you can get to this MINC and I can't of course... ;^) Good luck all, --Steve. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 28 11:45:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <20030228170843.91393.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >I know exactly what to do under UNIX, but I'm attempting to help out >someone else - I have the Montagar Hobbyist CD-ROM and I'm trying to >create an ISO file to feed to SIMH. We have tried three different >CD-ROM slurping programs from shareware.com and download.com, but >no success. They seem to have heartburn because the disc is not >mounted under Windows. > >Has anyone gone from CD-ROM to running VAX under Windows? How did >you get files off the distro? Take a look around the Charon-VAX site, they're back to offering a Hobbyist version I hear, and when they first released their emulator you could download a tool to do this. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dzubint at vcn.bc.ca Fri Feb 28 11:47:01 2003 From: dzubint at vcn.bc.ca (Thomas Dzubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? Message-ID: Yes, I went through the exact same thing... I couldn't find anything under MS-Windoze which would get the CD directly. It helps to have a dual-bootable machine with MS-Windows and Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD/whatever I rebooted my machine under Linux and just do the "dd" command dd if=/dev/cdrom of=vms.img (which you probably already know about). Then I copied the resulting file to a FAT-mounted drive and after that, I rebooted the machine under MS-Windows and the file was readable under SIMH on Windows. That file can the be burned onto a regular CD-R, shipped off to your friend (I'm assuming here that everybody has all of the correct & legal software licenses), and your friend can use the CD-R from Windows...they don't need to dual boot. I don't think there is any way for SIMH on Windows to read the CD directly, you need the intermediate image file first. Thomas Dzubin From kth at srv.net Fri Feb 28 11:57:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? References: <20030228170843.91393.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E5FA81B.7020906@srv.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: >I know exactly what to do under UNIX, but I'm attempting to help out >someone else - I have the Montagar Hobbyist CD-ROM and I'm trying to >create an ISO file to feed to SIMH. We have tried three different >CD-ROM slurping programs from shareware.com and download.com, but >no success. They seem to have heartburn because the disc is not >mounted under Windows. > >Has anyone gone from CD-ROM to running VAX under Windows? How did >you get files off the distro? > > If you just need an ISO image for windows, but have a Linux box you can copy it from, you can create it using the following Linux commands cat /dev/cdrom > vms.iso or cp /dev/cdrom vms.iso (Yes, it really is that simple) You can also use dd if you prefer. Test the ISO against a version of simh under Linux before moving it to windows (just to make sure there weren't any read errors during the copy). To do the same under windows, you will have to find whatever obscure option a particular CD-ROM burner package has, and get everything configured properly. It can be done, but is very specific to whatever software you have. I don't know if you can directly use the CD-ROM from within the Windows simh, or are forced to use ISO's. Under Linux, it is trivial to do either. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 12:00:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030228175705.4264.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Thomas Dzubin wrote: > Yes, I went through the exact same thing... > I couldn't find anything under MS-Windoze which would get the CD > directly. Foo! > It helps to have a dual-bootable machine with MS-Windows and > Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD/whatever Not an option in this case. If it were, I'd already be done. > I rebooted my machine under Linux and just do the "dd" command > dd if=/dev/cdrom of=vms.img > (which you probably already know about). Exactly. > (I'm assuming here that everybody has all of the correct & legal software > licenses) He works for HP. Licenses aren't a problem. > I don't think there is any way for SIMH on Windows to read the CD > directly, you need the intermediate image file first. Thanks for the confirmation. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 12:02:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030228175747.965.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >Has anyone gone from CD-ROM to running VAX under Windows? How did > >you get files off the distro? > > Take a look around the Charon-VAX site, they're back to offering a > Hobbyist > version I hear, and when they first released their emulator you could > download a tool to do this. Hmm... he _has_ played with Charon. I'll see if he has that tool. -ethan From allain at panix.com Fri Feb 28 12:06:47 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Weirdstuff Warehouse (WAS:Re: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit) References: <006701c2dee8$cac98aa0$0201a8c0@netadelxp> <609114706.20030227234014@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <008a01c2df52$d080a7c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> http://www.weirdstuff.com/sunnyvale/index.htm > Where's all their classic stuff? All I see is 5-year-old PC/Mac stuff. See the WSW As-Is page for three pictures, period, of classics. We oughta pay someone in Silicon Valley a dollar a month subscription to go in there and put his own pictures of it on a webpage (or at least I would). Imagine... getting Paid to go to WSW. John A. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 12:11:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <3E5FA81B.7020906@srv.net> Message-ID: <20030228180141.12272.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kevin Handy wrote: > If you just need an ISO image for windows, but have a Linux box... As I originally said, I know how to do it from UNIX. I'm looking for a way for him to do it in a 100% WinBlows environment. > I don't know if you can directly use the CD-ROM from within the > Windows simh, or are forced to use ISO's. Windows does not give you access to the raw device like UNIX does. You are required to get the data off as an image file and feed _that_ to SIMH. > Under Linux, it is trivial to do either. Of course it is. -ethan From dholland at woh.rr.com Fri Feb 28 12:14:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:31 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1046455722.21817.8.camel@crusader> You might take a gander at CDR software that'll create images for you. Some of the early versions of easy cd creator deluxe would extract images, that turn out to be ISO. Check www.daemon-tools.net for a fair pile of links.. It kinda looks like 'simdisc' will do what you want, if it doesn't actually require a CDR drive, and this is a one off thing (As the simdisc download is a eval version). Can't say I've tried most of these though, and I'd strongly make certain your anti-virus software is current, as daemon-tools is at least grey.. David On Fri, 2003-02-28 at 12:43, Thomas Dzubin wrote: > Yes, I went through the exact same thing... > I couldn't find anything under MS-Windoze which would get the CD directly. > > It helps to have a dual-bootable machine with MS-Windows and > Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD/whatever > > I rebooted my machine under Linux and just do the "dd" command > dd if=/dev/cdrom of=vms.img > (which you probably already know about). > Then I copied the resulting file to a FAT-mounted drive and after that, > I rebooted the machine under MS-Windows and the file was readable under > SIMH on Windows. That file can the be burned onto a regular CD-R, > shipped off to your friend (I'm assuming here that everybody has all > of the correct & legal software licenses), and your friend can use > the CD-R from Windows...they don't need to dual boot. > > I don't think there is any way for SIMH on Windows to read the CD > directly, you need the intermediate image file first. > > Thomas Dzubin From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Feb 28 12:28:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <20030228180141.12272.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000301c2df56$aeb4c820$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Windows does not give you access to the raw device like UNIX > does. You are required to get the data off as an image file > and feed _that_ to SIMH. I was going to suggest Nero, but I couldn't get it to work either! However, CDRWin from http://www.goldenhawk.com seems to be producing an image of a CONOLD CD right now. It produces .bin/.cue by default - it may or may not be able to produce ISOs. Even if it cannot, there are tools available (for Windows) which will happily convert as required. I've not actually attempted to use the results with SIMH, so all I'm reporting is that CDRWin is reading *something* from the CD! I'd burn the result to a CDRW if I thought any of my RRD4x devices could cope. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Fri Feb 28 12:38:00 2003 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Visual 1050 - can anybody send me a photo? Message-ID: Hello All, I am trying to put together a bio of the Visual 1050 for old-computers.com and I need a couple of photos of the system for them to accept submission. Can anyone help me out? I've googled myself out with no luck. This is the info I've been able to compile so far. Any additions appreciated. Thanks. > - Model Name: 1050 > - Brand : Visual Technology > - Manufacturer: Visual Technology, Incorporated 540 Main Street, Tewksbury, MA 01876 > - Country: USA > - Announce date: July 1983 > - Release date: 1984 > - End of production date: 1987? > - Built-in software or language: Visual 1050 Utility Manager, DR C-Basic, DR-CP/M MAC & SID, DR-GSX (graphics extensions), DR-Graph, Wordstar with mailmerge, Multiplan (spreadsheet), TTY-1050 (communications). > - Keyboard: Keytronic 65-02335 93-key ASCII (incl. numeric key pad & 17 function keys) > - CPU: Z80A > - CPU speed: 4mhz > - Coprocessors: none > - RAM: 128Kb (bank-switched) > - Video Processor: 6502-2 > - Video RAM: 320Kb (32Kb x 10) > - ROM: 8Kb > - Text resolutions: 640x300 (80 x 25) > - Graphical resolutions: 640x300 > - Number of colours: mono > - Monitor: Tatung MN1213P31AU, 12" hi-res, green phosphor > - Sound: none > - Size: CPU - 5"h x 17"w x 17"d Monitor - 12"h x 12"w x 13"d (all approx. dim) > - Weight: CPU - 15 lbs Monitor - 10 lbs (all approx. weight) > - Connectors: video, keyboard, serial, parallel & winchester ports > - Built-in storage media: 2 - 400Kb, 5 1/4", SSDD, 96tpi, floppy disk drives (TEAC FD-55E) with optional 10Mb external Winchester hard disk drive. > - Operating system: Digital Research (DR) CP/M Plus (CP/M, Version 3) > - Power supply: 75 watt, switching @115/230 VAC > - Extensions: > - Price: $2700 From ericj at speakeasy.org Fri Feb 28 12:40:50 2003 From: ericj at speakeasy.org (Eric Josephson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: harris 6100's on ebay In-Reply-To: <016201c2df1d$20a75cc0$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > You can find the Harris 6100 datasheet here... > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Downloads/hd6100.tif Ah, with the 6101, 6102, and 6103 datasheets as well, it appears. Thank you! From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Feb 28 12:54:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <20030228170843.91393.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I know exactly what to do under UNIX, but I'm attempting to help out > someone else - I have the Montagar Hobbyist CD-ROM and I'm trying to > create an ISO file to feed to SIMH. We have tried three different > CD-ROM slurping programs from shareware.com and download.com, but > no success. They seem to have heartburn because the disc is not > mounted under Windows. > > Has anyone gone from CD-ROM to running VAX under Windows? How did > you get files off the distro? dd if=/dev/scd0 of=vms.iso bs=1 Doc From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Feb 28 13:00:33 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <20030228164949.C41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <000401c2df57$01c0da40$cb87fe3e@athlon> > a VAX6k. It seams that the lack of VAX6k support in NetBSD is > mainly caused by insufficient docs about XMI. I know that > they have lots of VAX6k machines at northern Sweden where the > NetBSD/VAX portmaster lives... The docs have been made available - I'm not sure that the docs and the machines are in the same hands though (I've not been keeping track). I thought it was VAX 7000 support that was on hold? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Feb 28 13:10:02 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <20030228175705.4264.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Thomas Dzubin wrote: > > Yes, I went through the exact same thing... > > I couldn't find anything under MS-Windoze which would get the CD > > directly. > > Foo! There is a way around that - boot off a RedHat or a SuSE CD, in rescue mode. Failing possession of those, go to LinuxCare and download & burn their rescue CD. It's about 50 MB. Or go to Tom's rootboot floppy. http://www.toms.net/rb and make the floppy. All four environments give you access to the hard drive and the CD reader. Doc From bill at timeguy.com Fri Feb 28 13:15:05 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: OT: Large, multi-button mouse recommendations? Message-ID: <20030228082731.W81097-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> I've been doing a lot of finicky CAD work recently, and my hand is really starting to hurt from gripping the mouse tightly for fine control. I'm looking for a larger mouse (according to one site that sells various sizes of mouse, I'm between a "large" and an "x-large" hand size) that I can lay my hand more or less flat on top of (maybe with a couple of finger loops, so you don't have to grasp it constantly) and ideally with a small multi-button keypad of some kind on top. Is there such an animal out there (aside from the Space Mouse guys' $500 products) that might have these features? Suggestions welcome. From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 13:18:13 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit In-Reply-To: <32879.64.169.63.74.1046421647.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20030228144514.54215.qmail@web20808.mail.yahoo.com> Yes - I too would like to see the V-day moved so that it does not conflict with Foothill and DCL, although most Foothill action is over by the time V-day starts. I'll put this on the agenda for the next Volunteer Steering Committee. I don't think this will happen until we start doing tours in the new building in the end of Q2 timeframe. At that time I think we could rearrange Saturday tours and V-day. Thanks, Lee Courtney --- Eric Smith wrote: > Lee writes about the Computer History Museum: > > Second Saturday of the month is the regular work > party. > > Is there any particular reason why that has to be on > the second saturday, vs. one of the other saturdays? > I can't go that saturday because too many other > events > are scheduled for the second saturday of each month, > but > I don't have a single event scheduled for the other > saturdays. > > Sigh. From root at parse.com Fri Feb 28 13:20:42 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Need PDP-11/R20 bulbs Message-ID: <200302281631.LAA29890@parse.com> Anyone know of a source for PDP-11/R20 bulbs? I have a few burnt out ones... See www.parse.com/~pdp11/ Thanks in advance! Cheers, -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 13:23:10 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <1046455722.21817.8.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <20030228182827.60612.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Holland wrote: > Check www.daemon-tools.net for a fair pile of links.. Thanks, -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 13:27:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <000301c2df56$aeb4c820$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <20030228183810.63162.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > I've not actually attempted to use the results with SIMH, so > all I'm reporting is that CDRWin is reading *something* from > the CD! I'd burn the result to a CDRW if I thought any of > my RRD4x devices could cope. I already have verified that my RRD42 does _not_ like CD-R media. :-( -ethan From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Fri Feb 28 13:32:40 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: <005101c2df43$97f23130$030aa8c0@camaro> Message-ID: Do you have any information on the instruction set or hardware architecture of the Monrobot XI? I have a programming card that describes Quikcomp which is an assembly level language but I get the impression that it wasn't the native language of the machine. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Feb 28 13:37:01 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: A&J Stringy Floppy In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:07:07 EST." <000001c2debd$551c52e0$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <200302281846.SAA24548@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Chandra Bajpai" said: > I bet Exatron just OEM the drive of other applications. > As far as I know Exatron built drives for the TRS-80 market. Yes, I've got one for a TRS-80. I used it for a couple of months until I saved enogh money for a couple of floppies - floppies cost serious money in 1978! ISTR it was quite reliable, if a bit slow. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Feb 28 13:39:25 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Fortran In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:53:20 PST." <4678.4.20.168.191.1046393600.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <200302281858.SAA24674@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Eric Smith" said: > Adrian Vickers wrote: > > Gosh, I had /no/ idea that Fortran was a "column-sensitive" programming > > language; I thought that COBOL was the only one... > > Um, COBOL isn't. It's free-form. Groups of COBOL statements are > called paragraphs, and in the early days were written just like paragraphs > of prose. Fortunately sanity eventually prevailed, and COBOL has for > many years now been mostly written with one statement per line (or less). > > > What other languages are column sensitive? I'd guess at APL, but I'm > > sure there are others. > > No, no column sensitivity in APL. > > RPG is *very* column sensitive, much more so than FORTRAN. > > Python is sort of column sensitive. Nothing has to be in a specific > column, but the nesting is controlled by matching indentation, rather > than having begin/end tokens. > ISTR CESIL as being column sensitive, and some early BASICs required the keyword (only one per statement) to begin in column 6. I used to occasionally use NCC Filetab which reqired some things to be in the correct column. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Feb 28 13:55:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Large, multi-button mouse recommendations? Message-ID: Forget mice -- get a good, large track ball. I use an 2.25" Atari arcade trackball that I put in a custom cardboard and foamcore case, with two arcade button switches. I got it from Happ Controls (http://www.happcontrols.com/). Current price with USB or PS2 interface is $145. When I got mine (almost 15 years ago, so it is on-topic), it did not come with a PC interface, so I cannibalized a cheap serial mouse and made an interface. I think I still have plans I made up for that. I have had to clean and lube it only once in >10 years. I have it hooked to an IBM T20 laptop -- in its box, it's nearly as big as the laptop! -----Original Message----- From: Bill Richman [mailto:bill@timeguy.com] Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 8:28 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: OT: Large, multi-button mouse recommendations? I've been doing a lot of finicky CAD work recently, and my hand is really starting to hurt from gripping the mouse tightly for fine control. I'm looking for a larger mouse (according to one site that sells various sizes of mouse, I'm between a "large" and an "x-large" hand size) that I can lay my hand more or less flat on top of (maybe with a couple of finger loops, so you don't have to grasp it constantly) and ideally with a small multi-button keypad of some kind on top. Is there such an animal out there (aside from the Space Mouse guys' $500 products) that might have these features? Suggestions welcome. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Feb 28 14:04:01 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England Message-ID: Steve Jones said >Looks like there's a DEC MINC-11 in good condition to be >had for free in the North of England. Please, somebody go >save this thing from the skip! Maybe Adrian "Two Sheds" >Vickers can use it for a climate control system for his >garage... ;^) It's Friday and my mind is fried. /begin humor I think we need a travelling/flying squad of "rescuers" who can jet/travel to the location of the systems and recover them. I'll volunteer to quit my job, leave my family, and "save" lost computers. It's probably a calling, just like the priesthood. ( I will ignore all religious flames!) "The salvation army of computers". I will get a battered truck and travel the countryside as a wandering saver of discarded computers. Part of our oath will be "I promise to save all computers lost or not, as long as they have never been contaminated by the dreaded plague of Microsoft" (I will ignore all Microsoft flames!) "I will live in poverty surrounded by pieces of lost computers that I am attempting to resurrect." ( I again will ignore all religious flames!) "I will sacrifice an Intel computer daily to purify myself" "I will never use WD40 as it contaminates all it touches." "I will always search for the elusive Babbage Model 0100." Or I could donate a large barn and some land, and we can set up a commune of computer zealots. Wait there are men in white coats coming to take me away, no it's my wife's lawyer with papers for me to sign!! I will nominate Sellam as high priest, Megan as high priestess, and tony as hardware witchdoctor. . /end humor Mike From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Feb 28 14:06:28 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: harris 6100's on ebay References: Message-ID: <008001c2df64$57da1970$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Josephson" To: Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 1:29 PM Subject: Re: harris 6100's on ebay > On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > You can find the Harris 6100 datasheet here... > > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Downloads/hd6100.tif > > Ah, with the 6101, 6102, and 6103 datasheets as well, > it appears. Thank you! The thanks should go to Bob Armstrong. After all the work he's done for us regarding the SBC6120, I'm plugging him all I can! Bob From sipke at wxs.nl Fri Feb 28 14:09:01 2003 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Neon logic References: Message-ID: <008c01c2df64$74ba8660$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I would be interested too. "Lamp.zip" is no longer on the original website so if any body could mail it to me I'll make it aviable on my website for all Sipke de Wal -------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx -------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Nansel" To: "Doug Coward" Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:43 PM Subject: Neon logic > I came across reference to a file, LAMP.ZIP, you posted briefly for the > Classic Computer list back in '99. Would it be possible for me to get this > file? I'm fascinated by the idea of making counters, logic gates, and > memory elements using neon lamps, but repeated google searches reveal very, > very little hard information (other than there were such circuits). > > Also, I've read a few pages on early calculators (such as the Anita) using > something similar to neon lamps for logic gates and ring counters, though > the pictures lead me to believe they are actually 4-lead gas triodes or > thyratrons of some kind. Do you know what these beaties actually were? > > Finally, I've repeatedly run across mention that neon device switching is > slow, but how slow are they? > > You assistance is appreciated! > > -RLN From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Fri Feb 28 14:23:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Fortran References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228004220.00b7d538@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030228000948.0278bfc8@mail.30below.com> <32880.64.169.63.74.1046421866.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E5FC472.4020408@Vishay.com> About APL, ... Eric Smith wrote: > It most certainly does have syntax, though it's quite simple. > And it's quite easy to get syntax errors. But because most characters > can serve as both monadic and dyadic functions, it's also possible to > have a typo that is valid syntax but does something quite different > than what you intended. So this is not a syntax question, but a semantic one. Similar with FORTRAN: assume you wanted to write DO 20 I = 1,5 WRITE (LUNUTO, 10) 10 FORMAT (' Hello world!') 20 CONTINUE which happens to be a loop that outputs the text from the FORMAT statement five times, but put the first line slightly wrong like DO 20 I = 1.5 then this line does not start a loop any more, but becomes a simple assignment to a variable named DO20I, implicitly typed as REAL. This happens because FORTRAN is, by definition, blind to spaces (!), except in string constants. Incidentally, many FORTRAN compilers require that the comma is on the first line of a DO statement, while anything beyond it is allowed to be on continuation lines. Decades ago, I used to have a demo program that contained lots of things like this, and whenever somebody claimed to be an experienced FORTRAN programmer, I asked them to predict the output. Nobody ever got it right completely. Of course, many of the surprises were implementation dependant, and it was impossible to port the program from TOPS-10 to VAX/VMS. The above example, however, *is* portable. Just make sure LUNUTO (logical unit for user terminal output) has a value that is appropriate for your favorite operating system/compiler combo (e.g., for TOPS-10, LUNUTO=5, for VMS LUNUTO=6). -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Feb 28 14:27:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Neon logic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I've looked recently inside an Anita MK IV calculator and a doubt that you > would want to use that many tubes with heaters in that small a case... Most thyratrons have filaments anyway. The only one that leaps to mind that doesn't is the Americal 0A4G, and it is an octal. I am sure there are some other obscure types, but my Tube Lore is buried somewhere. The IBM favorites 2D21 and 5696, have filaments (they are miniatures). For something as simple as a calculator, you could get away with a couple hundred subminiature tubes, and still be able to plug it into a standard wall outlet, and still have it small enough to sit on a desk. The KWR-37 crypto box from the 1950s has something like 500 submini dual triodes, yet still is only a few cubic feet. Of course, no one in there right mind would pay for such a calculator. > The thyratons it uses are cold cathode and quite small. It also uses 1 > Decatron tube... Interesting. I would think there would be more Decatrons than that. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ssj152 at charter.net Fri Feb 28 14:32:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Was- Re: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England- Job Opening References: Message-ID: <0df601c2df67$e79ee150$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadden, Mike" To: Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 2:03 PM Subject: RE: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England > It's Friday and my mind is fried. > /begin humor > > I think we need a travelling/flying squad of "rescuers" who can jet/travel > to the location of the systems and recover them. I'll volunteer to quit my > job, leave my family, and "save" lost computers. It's probably a calling, > just like the priesthood. ( I will ignore all religious flames!) "The > salvation army of computers". I will get a battered truck and travel the > countryside as a wandering saver of discarded computers. > > I will nominate Sellam as high priest, Megan as high priestess, and tony as > hardware witchdoctor. . > > /end humor > > Mike /humor HELP WANTED Position - Globe Trotting CPU Saver. No job too large. Documents Scanned, Software Archived. Our slogan is: "It's in the Can - Man!" Position will require employee to be on call 50 weeks a year, travel extensively in private 737 Luxury / Cargo transport, fitted with communications similar to Air Force One. Employee will arrange own travel, rescuing antique computing gear, arranging for same to be accepted by qualified museum or collection, and transport found materials as necessary. No pay, but you can keep whatever you want. Meals provided and subject will live onboard private jet. Candidates to apply by posting on cctalk. :-) /end humor ---- Sounds a little like Charlie's Angels, doesn't it? Stuart Johnson From spector at zeitgeist.com Fri Feb 28 14:35:01 2003 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <200302281710.h1SHALg08199@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <6418DE00-4B5B-11D7-B0AF-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> ARE YOU NUTZ??!?!?!?!? GO GET IT!!!!!!!!!!! David On Friday, Feb 28, 2003, at 12:11 America/New_York, Steve Jones wrote: > Looks like there's a DEC MINC-11 in good condition to be > had for free in the North of England. Please, somebody go > save this thing from the skip! Maybe Adrian "Two Sheds" > Vickers can use it for a climate control system for his > garage... ;^) > > Here's the post: > > ======== > From: eclunan1@aol.comnotanysp (Eclunan1) > Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 > Date: 28 Feb 2003 10:07:37 GMT > Organization: AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk > Subject: MINC 11 free in north west England > Message-ID: <20030228050737.11472.00000175@mb-fx.aol.com> > > For anyone interested, I have a Digital > Minc-11, type RX02M-MD, serial number WS1840, with clock > and d/a plug-in modules, and Digital RX02 twin 10" floppy > disk drive unit. Also two keyboard/printer units, Digital > Decwriter II and III. Also one unopened and a part box of > 8" floppies, and a box of manuals. In south Cumbria, England. Free > to take away. You will need a decent sized estate car or a > trailer. Otherwise going to skip. > > Cheers > > Eddie > ======== > > Ade: I'm jealous is all. I get to go drive on the track every > now and again with a car club, but no racing. Oh, and that you > can get to this MINC and I can't of course... ;^) > > Good luck all, > --Steve. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Feb 28 14:48:00 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:11:57 EST." <200302281710.h1SHALg08199@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <200302282047.UAA27932@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Steve Jones" said: > Looks like there's a DEC MINC-11 in good condition to be > had for free in the North of England. Please, somebody go > save this thing from the skip! Maybe Adrian "Two Sheds" > Vickers can use it for a climate control system for his > garage... ;^) I saw that as well. Sadly, although I'm only about 125 miles oe so away, I've no transport. (I live a couple of miles from Adrian's shed...) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From avickers at solutionengineers.com Fri Feb 28 15:02:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <200302281710.h1SHALg08199@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228204301.00b9e730@slave> At 17:11 28/02/2003, you wrote: >Looks like there's a DEC MINC-11 in good condition to be >had for free in the North of England. Hmmm. >Please, somebody go >save this thing from the skip! Maybe Adrian "Two Sheds" >Vickers can use it for a climate control system for his >garage... ;^) I'm getting a reputation, aren't I? :) Seriously - if someone can lend me a suitable trailer, I'd be happy to contact the chap & see if he'll hang onto it for a week or two until I can get up there (although S. Cumbria is a reasonable trek away). Unfortunately, although I have two trailers (ahem), one is a little piddly thing (and open to the elements), and the other is a FO big car trailer suffering two problems - 1) it's open to the elements, 2) it's got a car with a broken wheel on it... I'd also be happy to keep it indefinitely pending someone else doing something with it - I'd like to stick to one - or, perhaps, two :) - projects at a time... (snip post) >Ade: I'm jealous is all. I get to go drive on the track every >now and again with a car club, but no racing. Oh, and that you >can get to this MINC and I can't of course... ;^) :) No worries! It'll take a bit of working on to get "two-sheds" status, but one is plenty for now... Although you wouldn't have known it, there's actually an old Rover 820 parked behind the HP's (under the black tarp); it's basically scrap (good body, broken engine), and I'm going to stick it in autotrader soon to see if anyone wants it; failing that, it's off to the scrappy with it, becuase frankly it's taking up space which would be better utilised for old computers... Meanwhile, back to the HPs: With the help of Bob Shannon, it looks like I might be able to have a serious crack at getting the F-series machines running. The only bit that's likely to cause a problem is I may not have a suitable console terminal, but I'm sure I can butcher my laptop's serial connection into behaving in the appropriate manner. Fingers crossed! -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Feb 28 15:14:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Jochen Kunz "Re: decserver 550 in Kansas City" (Feb 28, 10:23) References: <007e01c2deea$fc928710$8a00a8c0@arctura> <0d4b01c2deee$a456cd50$0200a8c0@cosmo> <20030228102328.A41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <10302282056.ZM4587@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 28, 10:23, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > [ plain text > Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] : On 2003.02.28 07:00 Stuart Johnson wrote: > > > Jonathan, what I want to know is how do you connect the RX50 and > > RD(whatever) hard drive to the RQDX3? > There are different distribution panels that split the 50 pin cable from > the RQDXx. The M9058 dist panel for the BA123 looks like a double QBus > card and sits in "QBus slot 13" in the BA123. The BA23 dist panel is > mounted inside the enclosure on the back of the QBus backplane. I have > the wiring of this panel, I can mail it to you when you want to build > your own dist panel. There is a BA213 dist panel that replaces the front > panel in a BA213 and has some additional switches LEDs to reset the CPU > etc. I think it is not that easy to rebuild this. It's not that hard to make something that will work. The distribution panels that split up the signals from the RXDX1/2/3 boards to connect to RDxx or RX50 are mostly just rerouting signals (some include some buffering). I've made up two of my own; one simple one, on Veroboard (stripboard), and one as a PCB. If you look in http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/RQDX/ you'll find the PCB layout and component overlay, along with the RQDX pinouts, for the larger of the two I made. It includes provision for switches or jumpers to do the job of the front panel switches. The circuits for the switches, inbcidentally, are very simple -- a latching switch, LED, one transistor (to invert the signal, as I recall) and a few resistors. It needn't even be as complex as that. I once traced out and re-drew the schematic of the M9058 board, but I can't find the PostScript file now :-( If I ever do, I'll post it on the website as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Feb 28 15:20:00 2003 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <20030228170843.91393.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501c2df6e$9c6ed120$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> I've done it fine with Nero in Windows. I think some versions of Easy CD Creator worked too, but that program does get confused sometimes. Nero worked perfectly. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 12:09 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? I know exactly what to do under UNIX, but I'm attempting to help out someone else - I have the Montagar Hobbyist CD-ROM and I'm trying to create an ISO file to feed to SIMH. We have tried three different CD-ROM slurping programs from shareware.com and download.com, but no success. They seem to have heartburn because the disc is not mounted under Windows. Has anyone gone from CD-ROM to running VAX under Windows? How did you get files off the distro? Thanks, -ethan From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Feb 28 15:48:00 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Mind fries. was: RE: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - Message-ID: Mike's fried mind came up with a *really* interesting juxtaposition: >"I will sacrifice an Intel computer daily to purify myself" >"I will never use WD40 as it contaminates all it touches." Ah hah - the equivalent of molten iron for the wintel box? Maybe better to just think of them (Wintel boxes and WD40) as offsetting penalties - put them together and the world will be a safer place for classics. A pleasant image, anyway. Hee hee hee. - Mark From kth at srv.net Fri Feb 28 16:00:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? References: <001501c2df6e$9c6ed120$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3E5FE107.2020909@srv.net> Bob Lafleur wrote: >I've done it fine with Nero in Windows. I think some versions of Easy CD >Creator worked too, but that program does get confused sometimes. Nero >worked perfectly. > > I think I've done it with nero before, but I believe it depends on which version you have wether it works right or not. >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks >Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 12:09 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? > > >I know exactly what to do under UNIX, but I'm attempting to help out >someone else - I have the Montagar Hobbyist CD-ROM and I'm trying to >create an ISO file to feed to SIMH. We have tried three different >CD-ROM slurping programs from shareware.com and download.com, but no >success. They seem to have heartburn because the disc is not mounted >under Windows. > >Has anyone gone from CD-ROM to running VAX under Windows? How did you >get files off the distro? > > > If you have to give up creating this in windows, you could always get a copy of the Knoppix Linux disk. This is a bootable Linux CD that lets you run Linux, and many of the programs available to it, without ever loading anything on your hard disk. (Available at http://www.linuxiso.org as a 700MB ISO file) You could then mount the windows partition under linux, and do your copy from the cd-rom to the hard drive, then go back to windows. However, you will probably need two CD-ROM drives to make this work. One for knoppix to boot/run from, and another for the VMS cd. If your friend has two cd-rom drives (as some combonitation of regular cd, cd burner, usb, or dvd, ...) than this would be one method of sneaking around the software problem. Besides, it may convert your friend to Linux ;-) From thodgson at pnc.com.au Fri Feb 28 16:09:00 2003 From: thodgson at pnc.com.au (Tim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Motorola MCM6665BP20 Specs Message-ID: <001601c2df75$0fdcee20$9f90dccb@tim> G'day, I've recently been going through a few items I had tucked away & found a bunch of IC's... Now I'm going through them, one by one, & trying to find as much info I can find. So far, I've found nothing on the Motorola MCM6665BP20, a 16pin chip with a secondary code of FQD8432. I'm trying to find complete specs, any idea's? Thanks in advance, Tim. From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 16:23:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested Message-ID: <20030228221856.77541.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> > Patrick Finnegan Pat, I tried to boot my Model I to see if I could make you a good boot disk using SuperUtility. It seems my Model I is no more. My friend who I had traded it to (and then gave it back) has modified it quite a bit, and it became delicate. It no longer works at all.. I can use the cassette unit fine, but the E/I is bad, and the LNW E/I I have doesn't seem to work with the unit either. I suspect the keyboard unit more than 2 E/I's are bad. I'm trying to find a Model III or IV locally. If I can, I'll get in touch with you about getting you a boot disk. I might be able to make you one with my Coco and using a Disk Copy Utility on the Coco... I haven't tried yet, and would have no way to test it.. Regards, Al Hartman From jamesl at bestweb.net Fri Feb 28 16:25:51 2003 From: jamesl at bestweb.net (James E. LaBarre) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Books & stuff that must go now Message-ID: <3E5FE077.5060209@bestweb.net> I have a big pile of Computer & related books, plust software, etc that need to be gotten rid of. We're tyring to clear out a house so that we can rent it out, and these items need to be moved out ASAP. All items are currently stored in Westchester County, NY as of 2003/02/28. However, it may be necessary to re-locate them to northeast Putnam county for storage. You will need to pick them up, if you want them. No picking & chosing; get together with some friends and divide them amongst yourselves. Email me at jamesl@bestweb.net Master page at: http://users.bestweb.net/~jamesl/ToGetRidOf.html Computer Books http://users.bestweb.net/~jamesl/COMP_ComputerBooks.html Non-computer books (but related) http://users.bestweb.net/~jamesl/COMP_BooksNonComp.html Journals (ACM, IBM) http://users.bestweb.net/~jamesl/COMP_Journals.html Magazines http://users.bestweb.net/~jamesl/COMP_magazines.html Others http://users.bestweb.net/~jamesl/COMP_Other.html Software http://users.bestweb.net/~jamesl/COMP_Software.html From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Feb 28 16:29:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Question Message-ID: <20030228222424.88399.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> I can't find the message from the person from the Philadelphia area that spoke about running a recycling service with some old equipment to get rid of... You wouldn't have any TRS-80 Equipment would you? This whole Model IV thread has got me interested in getting a working unit again. Contact me off list if you do. I would also be interested in any Atari ST or Amiga Equipment as well.. Regards, Al From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Feb 28 16:33:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: Books & stuff that must go now In-Reply-To: <3E5FE077.5060209@bestweb.net> Message-ID: > I have a big pile of Computer & related books, plust software, etc that > need to be gotten rid of. We're tyring to clear out a house so that we > can rent it out, and these items need to be moved out ASAP. > > All items are currently stored in Westchester County, NY as of > 2003/02/28. However, it may be necessary to re-locate them to northeast > Putnam county for storage. That's damn handy. John A? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Feb 28 16:41:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:32 2005 Subject: ISIS-II command summary? Message-ID: <200302282237.OAA22905@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Steve Thatcher" > >Hi all, I got my Intel MDS225 working today, but I only have >a single double density drive on it. I seem to recall that it >would read single density, but you accessed by a different drive >specifier. I can't seem to find one bit of documentation on the >ISIS command at home. Does anyone have a summary page they could >scan and send? > >I am also looking for the 50 pin connection wiring so I can connect >a drive externally. > >It was fun booting up ISIS-II version 4.2 and seeing the prompt >come up. I also had a CP/M 2.2 version that booted perfectly! > >best regards, Steve Thatcher > Hi I thought I'd add a list of commands from the users manual for the archives: IDISK