From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Tue Apr 1 04:31:00 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c2f839$6d271f60$4d4d2c0a@atx> > What is the difference between odd/even and high/low? > On a "little-endian" bus: none On a "big-endian" bus: flipping the low order address bit :-) or is it vice-versa. Andy From runtime at wzrd.com Tue Apr 1 05:52:01 2003 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:43 2005 Subject: Ignoring Mount requests on startup in OpenVMS Message-ID: This might work, if you can get at EDT in the state before SYSTARTUP_VMS executes. I haven't tried it to see if you can. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_004.html Who remembers how you could interrupt an RSX startup and then, with luck, PIP your way out of trouble with files that shouldn't have been there? Don Mitchell From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Apr 1 07:51:01 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:43 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51276BC@MAIL10> Hello, all: I just got my latest copy of Nuts & Volts last night and to my surprise, there's a note from Larry Steckler of Gernsback, the publisher of Radio-Electronics and Popular Electronics (merged into Poptronics). He says in the note that Gernsback Publishing is closing after 94 years and N&V will be fulfilling the balance of the subscriptions. I pass this on to the list with mixed emotions. For many years I subscribed to both R-E and PE but once I found Nuts & Volts, I did not renew either subscription. They strayed too far from the content I liked and N&V had some interesting regular columns -- Amateur Robotics and BASIC Stamps -- that more closely followed my interests. I had the same feeling when Byte, well, bought it, in 1995 -- a formerly great publishing that lost its way and its relevance to its core readership. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. First Vice President Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 1 09:24:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: <200303311843270531.06EC9677@192.168.42.129> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030401102904.35d7c888@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:43 PM 3/31/03 -0800, Bruce wrote: >On 30-Mar-03 at 12:17 Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >>This may sound harsh, but what is your favorite programming language? >> >>It would be an excellent exercise for learning some programming. > > Yes, it is harsh, and such a statement is of absolutely no use to me since there are plenty of other things I have chosen to devote my time and energy to. Well put Bruce! Some of the people on this list think that it's necessary to re-invent the wheel everytime that you want to do something. IMO you're a lot better off using existing software/hardware/whatever and spending your time on more productive pursuits. I CAN write code in BASIC, Assembly, several machine languages, Fortran, Pascal, APL and Cobol but I chose to leave it to the ones that enjoy it and are experts at it. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 1 09:26:25 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Spyware was Re: Any UK list members? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030401102051.451fe47c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:02 AM 4/1/03 +0000, Mike wrote: >>If anyone on here is from the UK, they might want to take a look at >> >http://computerhardwareneeded.cjb.net and read this guys story > >I'm a Brit in the USA. > >Most of us are friendly helpful folks. > >Most of of us become unfriendly when directed to a website that tries to >install Gator spyware on our machines, like you just did... > Speaking of Gator, if you're running MicroSloth's Wincrap go and download a copy of Ad-Aware. It's free and it will hunt down all the Spy-Ware crap and delete it. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 1 09:27:54 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Any UK list members? In-Reply-To: <001801c2f813$510d7a20$0100000a@milkyway> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030401102654.451f1dee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:53 AM 4/1/03 +0100, Phil wrote: >Mike Ross wrote: >> Most of of us become unfriendly when directed to a website that tries >> to install Gator spyware on our machines, like you just did... >That's one of the advantages to Mozilla - I can set it not to show >unrequested popups. A quick hack to my machine's HOSTS file finishes the >job. No more Gator or Cometcursor :-) That's nice but Gator isn't a pop-up. It's spy-ware. I snoops on your system for whatever it's told to look for (including things like credit card numbers, passwords, buying and browsing habits, etc) and sents the results back to people that you don't want to have it. FWIW I use Guide-Scope to block the pop-ups AND to selectively block cookies and Ad-Aware to search out and delete spy-ware. They're both available from the net for free and they seem to work fine. Joe From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Tue Apr 1 10:00:01 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51276BC@MAIL10> Message-ID: <20030401155748.41078.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> Yes, I believe the January Issue was the last issue. Circuit Cellar is another good mag, targeted more toward professional engineers. N&V lost something when it went to the small format, but still is a good hobbyist mag. Midnight engineering was promising, but I think its publisher (Bill Gates) couldn't manage the day to day business tasks. steve --- "Cini, Richard" wrote: > Hello, all: > > I just got my latest copy of Nuts & Volts last > night and to my > surprise, there's a note from Larry Steckler of > Gernsback, the publisher of > Radio-Electronics and Popular Electronics (merged > into Poptronics). He says > in the note that Gernsback Publishing is closing > after 94 years and N&V will > be fulfilling the balance of the subscriptions. > > I pass this on to the list with mixed emotions. For > many years I > subscribed to both R-E and PE but once I found Nuts > & Volts, I did not renew > either subscription. They strayed too far from the > content I liked and N&V > had some interesting regular columns -- Amateur > Robotics and BASIC Stamps -- > that more closely followed my interests. > > I had the same feeling when Byte, well, bought it, > in 1995 -- a > formerly great publishing that lost its way and its > relevance to its core > readership. > > Rich > > ========================== > Richard A. Cini, Jr. > First Vice President > Congress Financial Corporation > 1133 Avenue of the Americas > 30th Floor > New York, NY 10036 > (212) 545-4402 > (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From rborsuk at colourfull.com Tue Apr 1 10:05:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Victor keyboard identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5F6E290C-645B-11D7-BE13-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Hi All, Can anyone help me identify what machine this keyboard goes to: http://idisk.mac.com/colourfull_creations/Public/victor.jpg It's from Victor Business Products. It says Model 703 on the bottom. It also has a keyboard cable with an RJ-45 plug on it. I just acquired it this weekend. I only have the keyboard not the machine. Thanks Rob Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Apr 1 10:18:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030401102904.35d7c888@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030401102904.35d7c888@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200304010815070021.09D3A481@192.168.42.129> Hi, Joe, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 01-Apr-03 at 10:29 Joe wrote: > Well put Bruce! Some of the people on this list think that it's >necessary to re-invent the wheel everytime that you want to do something. >IMO you're a lot better off using existing software/hardware/whatever and >spending your time on more productive pursuits. I CAN write code in BASIC, I figured that out, yes. In fact, I've found a number of utilities that come very close to what I want to do. The situation, though, was rendered academic when the manufacturer of the device I was trying to do the EPROM for chose to send me a pre-made update. In retrospect, that's probably better. It seems that the latest code for the SCSI bus analyzer I got is, by itself, larger than would normally fit into a 27C010 device. However, it seems that the engineers behind it pulled some goofy tricks (utilizing gaps in the original code image) to make everything fit. The downside of that is, of course, that the only reliable source of updates is an exact binary image of the updated EPROM, something that they did not have on their FTP site. >Assembly, several machine languages, Fortran, Pascal, APL and Cobol but I >chose to leave it to the ones that enjoy it and are experts at it. Right. I don't particularly enjoy it. Never have, never will. I'll do it when needed, and I certainly take pride in my work, but there are limits. ;-) Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Apr 1 10:25:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: <20030401155748.41078.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> from "steve" at Apr 1, 03 07:57:48 am Message-ID: <200304011617.LAA08371@wordstock.com> And thusly steve spake: > > Yes, I believe the January Issue was the last issue. > Circuit Cellar is another good mag, targeted more > toward professional engineers. N&V lost something when > it went to the small format, but still is a good > hobbyist mag. Midnight engineering was promising, but > I think its publisher (Bill Gates) couldn't manage the > day to day business tasks. > Was Nuts & Volts ever available on the newsstand? Whenever I go to B&N or MicroCenter I always look for Circuit Cellar to see if there are any articles of interest. Even it is hard to find. Yet B&N stocks the 2600 mag. Cheers, Bryan P.S. The place I have found with the *most* selection of magazines is the World's Biggest Bookstore in downtown Toronto. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Apr 1 10:34:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: <200304011617.LAA08371@wordstock.com> References: <20030401155748.41078.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> from "steve" at Apr 1, 03 07:57:48 am Message-ID: <3E89DB5D.5898.C20167@localhost> > P.S. The place I have found with the *most* selection of magazines is the > World's Biggest Bookstore in downtown Toronto. Be careful when using such adjectives... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From acme at ao.net Tue Apr 1 11:17:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette Message-ID: <200304011714.h31HEXAx020508@eola.ao.net> Don -- Do you have the means to copy such a diskette? I have a set of the original distribution diskettes here, and last time I checked the boot diskette was good. Later -- Glen 0/0 > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: > > > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM and a > > > compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, > > > yeah. > > > > Don Maslin can probably help you with the CP/M boot disk. But you are > > going to have to immediately come up with software for serial port file > > transfer, since that is the only PRACTICAL way to transfer files to or > > from hard-sectored disks. > > I wish that I could, Fred. Unfortunately, I do not have a hard > sectored boot disk for the H89 to make a copy from so I am > stumped. > - don > > > There have been several C compilers for CP/M. Aztec/Manx is probably the > > best, but the most popular was Zolman's BDS C. Good news! As of 6 months > > ago, BDS C became public domain! : > > > > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > > > > > > > Don't know how many of you are on comp.os.cpm, but in case you missed > > it, > > > Leor Zolman has decided to release the full retail package of BDS C, > > > including *ALL* source code (compiler as well!) to the Public Domain. > > > > > > http://www.bdsoft.com/resources.html#bdsc > > > > > > Check it out! > > > > > > Rich B. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 1 11:19:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Cool finds! Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030401122415.4d7ff2fc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Stopped by one of my better scrounging places yesterday. I left with a new PC CMOS RAM card. This card has on-board battery backup, utilities in on-board ROM, write protection ability, and can be used as a solid state RAM drive and you can even boot from it. Also got the manual with it :-) Other goodies include two of the MS-DOS co-processor cards for the HP 9000 series 200 and 300 computers. I don't need to run MS-DOS on the 9000s but this card is required before you can use the HP 9127 drives to read and write MS-DOS formatted disks. I've got a heap of 9127s so the cards are very welcome. Anybody have docs or SW for these? I'm not sure if SW is required to use them to read/write MS-DOS disks or not. Also found a NICE little 5 slot VME chasssis made by Performance Technologies. It has two cards in it but I haven't checked it out yet to see what they are. Also found a nice counting scale with a remote scale. Also a big pile of Endevco Charge Amplifiers. Parts of a HP VXI chassis. Also found a 19" rack with a Recognition Concepts Inc Trapix 2d system. The odd thing about it is that the cards appear to be exactly the same size and connector layout as DEC Hex-bus cards! In the same chassis was a rackmount PC. It was connected to the RCI system by several LARGE ribbon cables and appears to be the I/O and storage system for the system. I didn't see much use for the RCI system so I left it but I grabbed the rack mount PC and a second loose rack mount PC that seems to be a spare. Joe From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Tue Apr 1 11:34:00 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: <200304011617.LAA08371@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20030401173151.70575.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Yep, B&N has always carried Nuts and Volts along with a couple UK electronics mags (in that slightly larger mag format) --- Bryan Pope wrote: > > > Was Nuts & Volts ever available on the newsstand? > Whenever I > go to B&N or MicroCenter I always look for Circuit > Cellar to see > if there are any articles of interest. Even it is > hard to find. > > Yet B&N stocks the 2600 mag. > > Cheers, > > Bryan > > P.S. The place I have found with the *most* > selection of magazines is the > World's Biggest Bookstore in downtown Toronto. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 1 12:04:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304011714.h31HEXAx020508@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030401130904.66afcd6a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Don, I think I have some hard sectored disks if you need any. IIRC I have both 10 and 16 sectored ones. FWIW I don't think any have Heathkit SW. Joe At 12:14 PM 4/1/03 -0500, you wrote: >Don -- > >Do you have the means to copy such a diskette? I have a set of the original >distribution diskettes here, and last time I checked the boot diskette was >good. > >Later -- > >Glen >0/0 > >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >> >> > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: >> > > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM and a >> > > compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, >> > > yeah. >> > >> > Don Maslin can probably help you with the CP/M boot disk. But you are >> > going to have to immediately come up with software for serial port file >> > transfer, since that is the only PRACTICAL way to transfer files to or >> > from hard-sectored disks. >> >> I wish that I could, Fred. Unfortunately, I do not have a hard >> sectored boot disk for the H89 to make a copy from so I am >> stumped. >> - don >> >> > There have been several C compilers for CP/M. Aztec/Manx is probably the >> > best, but the most popular was Zolman's BDS C. Good news! As of 6 months >> > ago, BDS C became public domain! : >> > >> > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > Don't know how many of you are on comp.os.cpm, but in case you missed >> > it, >> > > Leor Zolman has decided to release the full retail package of BDS C, >> > > including *ALL* source code (compiler as well!) to the Public Domain. >> > > >> > > http://www.bdsoft.com/resources.html#bdsc >> > > >> > > Check it out! >> > > >> > > Rich B. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 1 12:09:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette Message-ID: <200304011805.KAA22804@clulw009.amd.com> Hi As I mentioned earlier, I have a Forth that runs standalone on hard sectored. Since it is standalone, I've used it to make exact copies of other disk. I've done things like changing the interleaving to make about a 10X improvement in load speeds for many programs. It has been a while since I had the machine running. I can fire it up and check what I have. The only issue I have for making copies for others is the media. I only have a few hard sectored disk. For some reason, I thought that disk formats would last at least as long as 33 lp records. I didn't realize at the time that media was being obsoleted as fast as it was produced. I know better now. Anyway, if I can get it all running, I'll make copies if someone supplies media. Dwight >From: acme@ao.net > >Don -- > >Do you have the means to copy such a diskette? I have a set of the original >distribution diskettes here, and last time I checked the boot diskette was >good. > >Later -- > >Glen >0/0 > >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >> >> > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: >> > > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM and a >> > > compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, >> > > yeah. >> > >> > Don Maslin can probably help you with the CP/M boot disk. But you are >> > going to have to immediately come up with software for serial port file >> > transfer, since that is the only PRACTICAL way to transfer files to or >> > from hard-sectored disks. >> >> I wish that I could, Fred. Unfortunately, I do not have a hard >> sectored boot disk for the H89 to make a copy from so I am >> stumped. >> - don >> >> > There have been several C compilers for CP/M. Aztec/Manx is probably the >> > best, but the most popular was Zolman's BDS C. Good news! As of 6 months >> > ago, BDS C became public domain! : >> > >> > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > Don't know how many of you are on comp.os.cpm, but in case you missed >> > it, >> > > Leor Zolman has decided to release the full retail package of BDS C, >> > > including *ALL* source code (compiler as well!) to the Public Domain. >> > > >> > > http://www.bdsoft.com/resources.html#bdsc >> > > >> > > Check it out! >> > > >> > > Rich B. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 1 12:14:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Spyware was Re: Any UK list members? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030401102051.451fe47c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: Message-ID: > Speaking of Gator, if you're running MicroSloth's Wincrap go and >>download a copy of Ad-Aware. It's free and it will hunt down all the >>Spy-Ware crap and delete it. > > Joe I'm hearing that Ad-Aware is past it's prime. For Anti-Spyware info the site to check is http://www.spywareinfo.com/ I believe Spybot is now the preferred method. http://security.kolla.de/index.php?lang=en&page=download I REALLY recommend installing the following Registry Hack: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~ehowes/resource.htm#IESPYAD This blocks most spyware sites, and there is a version that you can put in /etc/hosts on Unix. Once I installed this it took care of all the Spyware problems I was having. Proxomitron is great for taking care of preventing popup windows, and depending on how it is configured can speed up surfing by blocking most ads. http://www.proxomitron.org/ Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 1 12:15:24 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: <200304011617.LAA08371@wordstock.com> References: <20030401155748.41078.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> from "steve" at Apr 1, 03 07:57:48 am Message-ID: >Was Nuts & Volts ever available on the newsstand? Whenever I >go to B&N or MicroCenter I always look for Circuit Cellar to see >if there are any articles of interest. Even it is hard to find. > >Yet B&N stocks the 2600 mag. I've found it at Barnes & Nobles, Borders, Powells Books, and I think I've even found it at Fred Meyer's (NW Chain of stores that sells a little of everything). >P.S. The place I have found with the *most* selection of magazines is the >World's Biggest Bookstore in downtown Toronto. If some place can beat Powells Books, then how big are they? Powells Books takes up an entire city block, is multi-story for a good chunk of that block. They don't even stock technical books in the main store, for that you've got to go a couple blocks away and the Technical Bookstore is has more books than most normal bookstores! Plus they've got so many books that they had to open another LARGE store about 20 minutes away, and then finally get at least one warehouse. They've been one of Amazon's major suppliers from Amazon's start. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 1 12:16:49 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: <200303311843270531.06EC9677@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Bruce Lane wrote: > Yes, it is harsh, and such a statement is of absolutely no use > to me since there are plenty of other things I have chosen to devote > my time and energy to. OK Sorry, some of us forget that not everybody enjoys programming. If you have a K&R compatible C compiler, here's a quick, crude one for you. For some compilers/OS's the "rb" and "wb" need tobe "r" and "w". IF each of the output files is half the size of the input file, then it worked. If you want input of the filenames, better error checking, verification of file content, etc., that can be added later. #include #include main() { int x; FILE * FPIN, FPO1, FPO2; FPIN = fopen("INPUT.DAT","rb"); FPO1 = fopen("OUT1.DAT","wb"); FPO2 = fopen("OUT2.DAT","wb"); while ((x = fgetc(FPIN)) != EOF) { fprintf(FPO1,"%c",x); x = fgetc(FPIN); fprintf(FPO2,"%c",x); } fclose(FPIN); fclose(FPO1); fclose(FPO2); } From hansp at aconit.org Tue Apr 1 12:19:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: <200304011617.LAA08371@wordstock.com> References: <200304011617.LAA08371@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3E89D7CE.5090502@aconit.org> Bryan Pope wrote: > Was Nuts & Volts ever available on the newsstand? Whenever I > go to B&N or MicroCenter I always look for Circuit Cellar to see > if there are any articles of interest. Even it is hard to find. It was available at selected locations. I used to pick up copies at Tower Books in Atlanta when I visited across the pond. ISTR there was a list of places it was availbale at published in each issue. -- hbp From at258 at osfn.org Tue Apr 1 12:26:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Spyware was Re: Any UK list members? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030401102051.451fe47c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Yes, I run it every week or two and it keeps the crap down to a minimum. On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > At 03:02 AM 4/1/03 +0000, Mike wrote: > >>If anyone on here is from the UK, they might want to take a look at > >> >http://computerhardwareneeded.cjb.net and read this guys story > > > >I'm a Brit in the USA. > > > >Most of us are friendly helpful folks. > > > >Most of of us become unfriendly when directed to a website that tries to > >install Gator spyware on our machines, like you just did... > > > > Speaking of Gator, if you're running MicroSloth's Wincrap go and download a copy of Ad-Aware. It's free and it will hunt down all the Spy-Ware crap and delete it. > > Joe > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Apr 1 12:27:32 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304011805.KAA22804@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030401122654.01934878@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hi Dwight, I would like a copy. I guess I should locate a source for some media. Does anyone know of any? --tom At 10:05 AM 4/1/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > As I mentioned earlier, I have a Forth that runs standalone >on hard sectored. Since it is standalone, I've used it to >make exact copies of other disk. I've done things like changing >the interleaving to make about a 10X improvement in load >speeds for many programs. > It has been a while since I had the machine running. I can >fire it up and check what I have. The only issue I have for >making copies for others is the media. I only have a few >hard sectored disk. For some reason, I thought that disk >formats would last at least as long as 33 lp records. I >didn't realize at the time that media was being obsoleted >as fast as it was produced. I know better now. > Anyway, if I can get it all running, I'll make copies >if someone supplies media. >Dwight > > >From: acme@ao.net > > > >Don -- > > > >Do you have the means to copy such a diskette? I have a set of the original > >distribution diskettes here, and last time I checked the boot diskette was > >good. > > > >Later -- > > > >Glen > >0/0 > > > >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >> > >> > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: > >> > > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM > and a > >> > > compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, > >> > > yeah. > >> > > >> > Don Maslin can probably help you with the CP/M boot disk. But you are > >> > going to have to immediately come up with software for serial port file > >> > transfer, since that is the only PRACTICAL way to transfer files to or > >> > from hard-sectored disks. > >> > >> I wish that I could, Fred. Unfortunately, I do not have a hard > >> sectored boot disk for the H89 to make a copy from so I am > >> stumped. > >> - don > >> > >> > There have been several C compilers for CP/M. Aztec/Manx is > probably the > >> > best, but the most popular was Zolman's BDS C. Good news! As of 6 > months > >> > ago, BDS C became public domain! : > >> > > >> > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Don't know how many of you are on comp.os.cpm, but in case you missed > >> > it, > >> > > Leor Zolman has decided to release the full retail package of BDS C, > >> > > including *ALL* source code (compiler as well!) to the Public Domain. > >> > > > >> > > http://www.bdsoft.com/resources.html#bdsc > >> > > > >> > > Check it out! > >> > > > >> > > Rich B. From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Apr 1 12:32:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 1, 03 10:11:27 am Message-ID: <200304011824.NAA07371@wordstock.com> And thusly Zane H. Healy spake: > > >P.S. The place I have found with the *most* selection of magazines is the > >World's Biggest Bookstore in downtown Toronto. > > If some place can beat Powells Books, then how big are they? Powells Books > takes up an entire city block, is multi-story for a good chunk of that > block. They don't even stock technical books in the main store, for that > you've got to go a couple blocks away and the Technical Bookstore is has > more books than most normal bookstores! Plus they've got so many books > that they had to open another LARGE store about 20 minutes away, and then > finally get at least one warehouse. They've been one of Amazon's major > suppliers from Amazon's start. > When it originally came into being, there were no other book stores (that I knew of) like it. Nowadays the Chapters and B&N's are about the same size. Cheers, Bryan From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Apr 1 12:37:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Spyware was Re: Any UK list members? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030401102051.451fe47c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030401132855.02c2de48@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Merle K. Peirce may have mentioned these words: >Yes, I run it every week or two and it keeps the crap down to a minimum. > >On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: >[snip] > > Speaking of Gator, if you're running MicroSloth's Wincrap go and > download a copy of Ad-Aware. It's free and it will hunt down all the > Spy-Ware crap and delete it. There's two programs that will do that: Ad-Aware (latest version is 6.0) -- There's a freeware & a paid version... http://www.lavasoftusa.com/ Spybot Search & Destroy -- another good spyware proggie that can get rid of new.net & downloadware (ones that Ad-Aware 5.83 couldn't kill)... http://security.kolla.de/ To bring this back ontopic, tho: lavasoft has been around since the Commie64 days, and a) still has a lot of that software, and b) released it to freeware as well... you can download it there... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Apr 1 12:41:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030401130904.66afcd6a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200304011714.h31HEXAx020508@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030401123941.019b4ec0@mail.ubanproductions.com> According to my H89 manual, it takes 10 sector disks. I have had my H89 for a while, but I haven't been able to locate any software for it yet. I bought it at a hamfest and the person that sold it to me claims to have the software and that they will send it to me, but I'm not holding my breath... --tom At 01:09 PM 4/1/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Don, > > I think I have some hard sectored disks if you need any. IIRC I have > both 10 and 16 sectored ones. FWIW I don't think any have Heathkit SW. > > Joe > >At 12:14 PM 4/1/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Don -- > > > >Do you have the means to copy such a diskette? I have a set of the original > >distribution diskettes here, and last time I checked the boot diskette was > >good. > > > >Later -- > > > >Glen > >0/0 > > > >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >> > >> > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: > >> > > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM > and a > >> > > compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, > >> > > yeah. > >> > > >> > Don Maslin can probably help you with the CP/M boot disk. But you are > >> > going to have to immediately come up with software for serial port file > >> > transfer, since that is the only PRACTICAL way to transfer files to or > >> > from hard-sectored disks. > >> > >> I wish that I could, Fred. Unfortunately, I do not have a hard > >> sectored boot disk for the H89 to make a copy from so I am > >> stumped. > >> - don > >> > >> > There have been several C compilers for CP/M. Aztec/Manx is > probably the > >> > best, but the most popular was Zolman's BDS C. Good news! As of 6 > months > >> > ago, BDS C became public domain! : > >> > > >> > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Don't know how many of you are on comp.os.cpm, but in case you missed > >> > it, > >> > > Leor Zolman has decided to release the full retail package of BDS C, > >> > > including *ALL* source code (compiler as well!) to the Public Domain. > >> > > > >> > > http://www.bdsoft.com/resources.html#bdsc > >> > > > >> > > Check it out! > >> > > > >> > > Rich B. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Apr 1 12:47:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 References: Message-ID: <3E89DE8E.4040308@gifford.co.uk> Witchy wrote: > A surprise consignment arrived for me this morning - an IBM 5150 in not bad > condition complete with keyboard/monitor That's the original IBM PC, yes? What video card do you have? > and a 5161 expansion box, spare > expansion card and 2 extender cables..... Very nice! > reading the classiccmp archives > back to 1998 makes me think I should be impressed since the 5161 isn't that > common? Well, I have one, but then I'm probably not very typical! I never saw one when I did PC and DOS programming back in the 1980s. One or two clones with external hard disks, but no IBM expansion chassis. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Apr 1 12:56:01 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304011805.KAA22804@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030401125406.040a6ac0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Looking further at my H89 documentation does not actually list enough information to know what type of floppies are used. Since it only lists 10 SPT, 40 TRK, 256 BPS, I guess that I should assume SSSD 100K hard sectored (10 SPT) disks. Is this correct? --tnx --tom At 10:05 AM 4/1/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > As I mentioned earlier, I have a Forth that runs standalone >on hard sectored. Since it is standalone, I've used it to >make exact copies of other disk. I've done things like changing >the interleaving to make about a 10X improvement in load >speeds for many programs. > It has been a while since I had the machine running. I can >fire it up and check what I have. The only issue I have for >making copies for others is the media. I only have a few >hard sectored disk. For some reason, I thought that disk >formats would last at least as long as 33 lp records. I >didn't realize at the time that media was being obsoleted >as fast as it was produced. I know better now. > Anyway, if I can get it all running, I'll make copies >if someone supplies media. >Dwight > > >From: acme@ao.net > > > >Don -- > > > >Do you have the means to copy such a diskette? I have a set of the original > >distribution diskettes here, and last time I checked the boot diskette was > >good. > > > >Later -- > > > >Glen > >0/0 > > > >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >> > >> > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: > >> > > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM > and a > >> > > compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, > >> > > yeah. > >> > > >> > Don Maslin can probably help you with the CP/M boot disk. But you are > >> > going to have to immediately come up with software for serial port file > >> > transfer, since that is the only PRACTICAL way to transfer files to or > >> > from hard-sectored disks. > >> > >> I wish that I could, Fred. Unfortunately, I do not have a hard > >> sectored boot disk for the H89 to make a copy from so I am > >> stumped. > >> - don > >> > >> > There have been several C compilers for CP/M. Aztec/Manx is > probably the > >> > best, but the most popular was Zolman's BDS C. Good news! As of 6 > months > >> > ago, BDS C became public domain! : > >> > > >> > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Don't know how many of you are on comp.os.cpm, but in case you missed > >> > it, > >> > > Leor Zolman has decided to release the full retail package of BDS C, > >> > > including *ALL* source code (compiler as well!) to the Public Domain. > >> > > > >> > > http://www.bdsoft.com/resources.html#bdsc > >> > > > >> > > Check it out! > >> > > > >> > > Rich B. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Apr 1 13:04:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette References: <200304011805.KAA22804@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E89E165.1040308@jetnet.ab.ca> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > It has been a while since I had the machine running. I can > fire it up and check what I have. The only issue I have for > making copies for others is the media. I only have a few > hard sectored disk. For some reason, I thought that disk > formats would last at least as long as 33 lp records. I > didn't realize at the time that media was being obsoleted > as fast as it was produced. I know better now. The funny thing some small record companies still produce records.You can still get records, but not the crappy $7.95 k-tell stuff, but higher priced and higher quality audio.A good record changer and other assorted parts ( like a clean record) is better music wise than any CD. Can a regular disk be punched to make hard sectored disc? Ben. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Apr 1 13:22:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030401123941.019b4ec0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <059201c2f883$a98ab800$46f8b8ce@impac.com> There is an ePay seller (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=info@ dynacompsoftware.com) who often has auctions for NorthStar software on 10 sector 5.25s. One current auction is: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=182&item=36019127 30 Even if you just want the media the price (starting at $10 for 20 disks w/software) isn't bad. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Uban Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:42 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette According to my H89 manual, it takes 10 sector disks. I have had my H89 for a while, but I haven't been able to locate any software for it yet. I bought it at a hamfest and the person that sold it to me claims to have the software and that they will send it to me, but I'm not holding my breath... --tom At 01:09 PM 4/1/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Don, > > I think I have some hard sectored disks if you need any. IIRC I have > both 10 and 16 sectored ones. FWIW I don't think any have Heathkit SW. > > Joe > >At 12:14 PM 4/1/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Don -- > > > >Do you have the means to copy such a diskette? I have a set of the original > >distribution diskettes here, and last time I checked the boot diskette was > >good. > > > >Later -- > > > >Glen > >0/0 > > > >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >> > >> > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: > >> > > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM > and a > >> > > compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, > >> > > yeah. > >> > > >> > Don Maslin can probably help you with the CP/M boot disk. But you are > >> > going to have to immediately come up with software for serial port file > >> > transfer, since that is the only PRACTICAL way to transfer files to or > >> > from hard-sectored disks. > >> > >> I wish that I could, Fred. Unfortunately, I do not have a hard > >> sectored boot disk for the H89 to make a copy from so I am > >> stumped. > >> - don > >> > >> > There have been several C compilers for CP/M. Aztec/Manx is > probably the > >> > best, but the most popular was Zolman's BDS C. Good news! As of 6 > months > >> > ago, BDS C became public domain! : > >> > > >> > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Don't know how many of you are on comp.os.cpm, but in case you missed > >> > it, > >> > > Leor Zolman has decided to release the full retail package of BDS C, > >> > > including *ALL* source code (compiler as well!) to the Public Domain. > >> > > > >> > > http://www.bdsoft.com/resources.html#bdsc > >> > > > >> > > Check it out! > >> > > > >> > > Rich B. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 1 13:28:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <3E89E165.1040308@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > Can a regular disk be punched to make hard sectored disc? yes but it's not THAT hard to find them. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Apr 1 13:38:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51276BC@MAIL10> Message-ID: <007501c2f886$0eccbcc0$0100000a@milkyway> Cini, Richard wrote: > I had the same feeling when Byte, well, bought it, in 1995 -- a > formerly great publishing that lost its way and its relevance to its > core readership. Elektor are their same old selves, though. I was going to build one of their USB sound cards - except for one problem. The main controller chip is a Burr-Brown (TI) part that is damn near impossible to get in the UK... EPE on the other hand are still publishing their wonderful little "This part is available in England and can be made to do [some wonderful thing]" type articles. As long as EPE is still in publication, I'll still keep reading it. Unless it turns into another "Electronics And Beyond" (pseudo-science articles? puhleeze) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Apr 1 13:43:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Any UK list members? References: <3.0.6.16.20030401102654.451f1dee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <007d01c2f886$c32fefc0$0100000a@milkyway> Joe wrote: > That's nice but Gator isn't a pop-up. It's spy-ware. I snoops on > your system for whatever it's told to look for [snip] I know what Spyware is. I've got a block in my HOSTS file on the PC - Gator seems to download most of its stuff from the Gator website. Stop it downloading that crap and it doesn't even get past installation. Use Mozilla and its ActiveX control won't even start, so Gator won't even try and install in the first place. IIRC. > FWIW I use Guide-Scope to block the pop-ups AND to selectively block > cookies and Ad-Aware to search out and delete spy-ware. They're both > available from the net for free and they seem to work fine. I use AAW a lot - I give my PC a scan every two months. As for my Acorn RiscPC, well. I don't think there's much spyware for that, do you? As for viruses, "T3" is the only real nasty virus that exists for RISC OS - the rest are just annoyances. T3 destroys data - Extend, Icon and the like just sit around wasting memory. I seem to remember the Icon virus was written by a student at the Queen Elizabeth Grammar School (QEGS) in Wakefield, England... I think his nickname was "Smigg" or something like that. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From arlen at acm.org Tue Apr 1 14:15:00 2003 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: GenRad Future Data In-Reply-To: <137401c2f6b8$af952e00$0100a8c0@majestix> Message-ID: on 30/3/03 7:34 AM, Wolfgang Kainz-Huber at webmaster@khssoftware.de wrote: > do you know what I have here ?> > I need technical infos like CPU, RAM, ROM and so on. I have one disk for this > machine, but I can't read it. Therefore I need a short reference about the > RDOS OS. A rare machine I think, because I can't find any information about > the FutureData in the www. Wolfgang, I believe this is the FutureData microprocessor development system sold around 1980-83 by GenRad, before Kontron bought the product line from them. It competed with similar high-end engineering tools from Tektronix and HP (their 64000 system). This was a very cool, high-powered development tool in its day, for the popular 8-bit processors like 6802, 8085, Z80. You would edit and assemble your code on the FData. By plugging a 40-pin probe into the target hardware's cpu socket, you'd execute the code in the actual target hardware under control of the FData and its debugging software ("in-circuit emulation"). When you were satisfied with your code you could burn it to eprom and plug it and the processor chip back into the target hardware. These systems were populated with somewhat specific hardware and software to match the target microprocessor system you were designing. For example, the box would use a 6800 cpu card, 6800 in-circuit emulator pod, and native 6800-coded OS for Motorola work; an 8085 cpu, pod, and an 8085-coded OS for Intel development. The proprietary operating system was called RDOS and worked more or less the same for each platform but, as I indicated, the OS and the applications were coded natively for each processor they supported. They also sold a structured Basic compiler called SBasic for the 8085/Z80. Arlen Michaels From patrick at evocative.com Tue Apr 1 14:34:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030401123941.019b4ec0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: > According to my H89 manual, it takes 10 sector disks. I have had my H89 > for a while, but I haven't been able to locate any software for it yet. > I bought it at a hamfest and the person that sold it to me claims to have > the software and that they will send it to me, but I'm not holding my > breath... Tom, Tony, et al, Maybe I can be of some help to a few people here. I have a recently-acquired soft sector controller and some other spare parts. I have no idea if the soft sectored controller works, because I just got it and have yet to plug it in. All of the software I do have is hard-sector HDOS... no CP/M whatsoever. I thought I had it, but apparently I don't, unless I missed a box. I have already contacted Don Maslin off list to request a soft-sectored Magnolia CP/M boot disk, and check my thinking here... it should be possible to create a bootable hard sector disk from the bootable soft sectored one by installing both controllers. Unless I'm missing something, that seems like a no-brainer. If that is in fact possible, I will be happy to share the benefits of that (small) labor with those in need. One unfortunate rub since my earlier discussion in this thread with Tony... last night I pulled my reference machine out of storage and powered it up, and it almost boots. Almost. A working machine went into storage six months ago, but what has emerged seems to take a (hard sector) disk read error on every modulo-10 numbered sector starting at 40 (that's sector, not track), with any diskette I use. No problem with any other sectors, just 40, 50, 60, etc. I have to diag and solve this problem first, obviously. Disk rotation speed is good (between 177 and 200), so any pointers any of you may have may help me save time dinking around. I have both spare drives and controllers, but all are in unknown states at this point. Timing wise, once that's fixed, I will need to have received the disk from Don, and see if the soft-sectored controller is working at all, and diagnose THAT if not. And THEN we'll be in business. For those of you who would like either the bootable HDOS (hard sector) or the bootable CP/M (hard sector) when this gets sorted out, please reply to me OFF LIST. I'm hoping the hard sector drive problem is trivial. I also found a bootable/standalone HDOS diskette with a comm program on it, so those that don't specifically need CP/M could use this, if you like. Ideas on the disk issue? Patrick From cb at mythtech.net Tue Apr 1 14:43:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Zebra Pick manuals Message-ID: I've got two binders of manuals for the General Automation Zebra Pick system. Does anyone want them before they are tossed in the garbage? -chris From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 1 14:56:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette Message-ID: <200304012053.MAA22910@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "ben franchuk" > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> It has been a while since I had the machine running. I can >> fire it up and check what I have. The only issue I have for >> making copies for others is the media. I only have a few >> hard sectored disk. For some reason, I thought that disk >> formats would last at least as long as 33 lp records. I >> didn't realize at the time that media was being obsoleted >> as fast as it was produced. I know better now. > >The funny thing some small record companies still produce >records.You can still get records, but not the crappy $7.95 k-tell >stuff, but higher priced and higher quality audio.A good >record changer and other assorted parts ( like a clean record) >is better music wise than any CD. > >Can a regular disk be punched to make hard sectored disc? >Ben. > Hi Ben Yes, one can take normal disk and punch them. They do need to be accurately done. I've been looking at setting up an index wheel to do just this. I have need for doing it on 5-1/4 and 8 inch so it is an interesting problem. One of my 8 inch applications has index holes on the outer diameter of the disk. Dwight From jamesl at bestweb.net Tue Apr 1 15:07:01 2003 From: jamesl at bestweb.net (James E. LaBarre) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51276BC@MAIL10> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51276BC@MAIL10> Message-ID: <3E89FEDE.6080503@bestweb.net> Cini, Richard wrote: > I just got my latest copy of Nuts & Volts last night and to my > surprise, there's a note from Larry Steckler of Gernsback, the publisher of > Radio-Electronics and Popular Electronics (merged into Poptronics). He says > in the note that Gernsback Publishing is closing after 94 years and N&V will > be fulfilling the balance of the subscriptions. So the last remnant of the first Science-Fiction magazine publisher is closing down (for those of you that don't know, the annual SF awards given at the World SF convention is called the Hugo, after Hugo Gernsback). From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Apr 1 15:10:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Zebra Pick manuals References: Message-ID: <004f01c2f892$b16fc100$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Do your manuals include the Zebra MC68020 executive firmware manual, or the OMTI controller docs? Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 2:41 PM Subject: Zebra Pick manuals > I've got two binders of manuals for the General Automation Zebra Pick > system. > > Does anyone want them before they are tossed in the garbage? > > -chris > From cb at mythtech.net Tue Apr 1 15:26:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Zebra Pick manuals Message-ID: >Do your manuals include the Zebra MC68020 executive firmware manual, or the >OMTI controller docs? I have the following (I guess I should have done this before, but I was too lazy): Accu-Plot Operator Guide Zebra/Pick graphics system Compu-Sheet operator guide for financial planning Pick Jet word processor guide Runoff reference manual Pick Spooler reference manual Proc reference manual Pick Basic reference manual Zebra 2500 Installation Guide Zebra Models 2500 and 3500 Cipher 1/2" Tape Unit Installation Guide Overview of the Pick Operating System Introduction to Pick TCL and file structures Pick operator guide Pick utilities guide Access reference manual Editor reference manual So in answer to your question... no, I don't have either of the manuals you are looking for. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Tue Apr 1 15:46:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Zebra Pick manuals Message-ID: >I have the following (I guess I should have done this before, but I was >too lazy): Ugh... these bloddy manuals are cursed. I am destined to never be rid of them. I have to retract my offer on these manuals for the time being. I was just told that the lady that used to handle our Zebra has expressed interest in taking the manuals. I haven't spoken to her directly yet (I've been told 3rd party by someone else here that still talks to her). But until I know what is going on with giving them to her or not, I don't want to promise them off to anyone else. I have to at least give her first dibs on them since the Pick stuff really was her baby. (the Zebra first, and then later the Pick OS on two PC clones we had, although at least I dabbled a bit in the Pick/PC setups). -chris From hansp at aconit.org Tue Apr 1 16:21:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Zebra Pick manuals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E8A105F.6050103@aconit.org> chris wrote: > I've got two binders of manuals for the General Automation Zebra Pick > system. > > Does anyone want them before they are tossed in the garbage? Instead of tossing in the garbage you might consider sending them to Al Kossow for scanning. -- hbp From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 1 16:26:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: from "Bryan Pope" at Apr 01, 2003 01:24:30 PM Message-ID: <200304012223.h31MNxim023830@shell1.aracnet.com> > And thusly Zane H. Healy spake: > > > > >P.S. The place I have found with the *most* selection of magazines is the > > >World's Biggest Bookstore in downtown Toronto. > > > > If some place can beat Powells Books, then how big are they? Powells Books > > takes up an entire city block, is multi-story for a good chunk of that > > block. They don't even stock technical books in the main store, for that > > you've got to go a couple blocks away and the Technical Bookstore is has > > more books than most normal bookstores! Plus they've got so many books > > that they had to open another LARGE store about 20 minutes away, and then > > finally get at least one warehouse. They've been one of Amazon's major > > suppliers from Amazon's start. > > > > When it originally came into being, there were no other book stores (that I > knew of) like it. Nowadays the Chapters and B&N's are about the same size. Then the main Powells has them beat without even trying. Shoot, Powells Technical is almost that big :^) Zane From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Apr 1 16:44:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Zebra Pick manuals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > But until I know what is going on with giving them to her or not, I don't > want to promise them off to anyone else. I have to at least give her > first dibs on them since the Pick stuff really was her baby. (the Zebra > first, and then later the Pick OS on two PC clones we had, although at > least I dabbled a bit in the Pick/PC setups). > If the pick box is small, I'd be interested if it's available. :) g. From aek at spies.com Tue Apr 1 16:45:30 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: Zebra Pick manuals Message-ID: <200304012242.h31MgO3O012925@spies.com> > Does anyone want them before they are tossed in the garbage? Instead of tossing in the garbage you might consider sending them to Al Kossow for scanning. -- I'd be happy to scan these, and forward them on to the person who has the Zebra system.. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 1 16:54:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette Message-ID: <200304012251.OAA22976@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Patrick Rigney" >> According to my H89 manual, it takes 10 sector disks. I have had my H89 >> for a while, but I haven't been able to locate any software for it yet. >> I bought it at a hamfest and the person that sold it to me claims to have >> the software and that they will send it to me, but I'm not holding my >> breath... > >Tom, Tony, et al, > >Maybe I can be of some help to a few people here. I have a >recently-acquired soft sector controller and some other spare parts. I have >no idea if the soft sectored controller works, because I just got it and >have yet to plug it in. All of the software I do have is hard-sector >HDOS... no CP/M whatsoever. I thought I had it, but apparently I don't, >unless I missed a box. I have already contacted Don Maslin off list to >request a soft-sectored Magnolia CP/M boot disk, and check my thinking >here... it should be possible to create a bootable hard sector disk from the >bootable soft sectored one by installing both controllers. Unless I'm >missing something, that seems like a no-brainer. If that is in fact >possible, I will be happy to share the benefits of that (small) labor with >those in need. Hi You do know that there is a hardware modification needed to run CP/M? As far as I know, this makes it so that it doesn't run HDOS. I could be wrong though, it has been a while since I looked at this issue. You should also try to get a copy of the listing for the hard sectored controller as well. I may have a copy of this someplace ( it was published by HeathKit ). I think the soft sectored code was also published. > >One unfortunate rub since my earlier discussion in this thread with Tony... >last night I pulled my reference machine out of storage and powered it up, >and it almost boots. Almost. A working machine went into storage six >months ago, but what has emerged seems to take a (hard sector) disk read >error on every modulo-10 numbered sector starting at 40 (that's sector, not >track), with any diskette I use. No problem with any other sectors, just >40, 50, 60, etc. I have to diag and solve this problem first, obviously. >Disk rotation speed is good (between 177 and 200), so any pointers any of >you may have may help me save time dinking around. I have both spare drives >and controllers, but all are in unknown states at this point. Timing wise, >once that's fixed, I will need to have received the disk from Don, and see >if the soft-sectored controller is working at all, and diagnose THAT if not. >And THEN we'll be in business. Check to see that none of the rubber from the drive belt is sticking on the flywheel or drive pully. Check with your finger to make sure both surfaces are very smooth. Even a tiny bump will cause read errors. As I recall, these came as single sided so you also need to check the pad on the head load. Dwight > >For those of you who would like either the bootable HDOS (hard sector) or >the bootable CP/M (hard sector) when this gets sorted out, please reply to >me OFF LIST. I'm hoping the hard sector drive problem is trivial. I also >found a bootable/standalone HDOS diskette with a comm program on it, so >those that don't specifically need CP/M could use this, if you like. > >Ideas on the disk issue? > >Patrick From patrick at evocative.com Tue Apr 1 17:25:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304012251.OAA22976@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > Hi > You do know that there is a hardware modification needed to run > CP/M? As far as I know, this makes it so that it doesn't run > HDOS. I could be wrong though, it has been a while since I looked > at this issue. > You should also try to get a copy of the listing for the hard > sectored controller as well. I may have a copy of this someplace > ( it was published by HeathKit ). I think the soft sectored > code was also published. Dwight, yes, I had heard that before, and forgotten, so thanks for bringing it up. IIRC that change was to move the start of RAM to $0000 (CP/M friendly). Do you recall if there are other changes (other than the impact this may have on any (EP)ROM that's in the way)? Thanks for the pointers on the floppy drive... I'll be cracking the case tonight... Patrick From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 1 17:53:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: GenRad Future Data In-Reply-To: <137401c2f6b8$af952e00$0100a8c0@majestix> from "Wolfgang Kainz-Huber" at Mar 30, 3 02:34:14 pm Message-ID: > Hello, > > do you know what I have here ? I do have a FutureData development system. The machine itself looks like a video terminal with extra PCBs plugging in the back. There's also a separate 8" dual floppy drive unit (which contains much of the controller circuitry). > > > > I need technical infos like CPU, RAM, ROM and so on. I have one disk for this Somewhere (and don't expect me to find them in the next 10 years :-)) I have the scheamtics for the main unit (nothing on the disk controller though AFAIK). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 1 17:56:07 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:44 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Mar 31, 3 08:25:09 pm Message-ID: > Hi collecting folks, > > A surprise consignment arrived for me this morning - an IBM 5150 in not bad > condition complete with keyboard/monitor and a 5161 expansion box, spare > expansion card and 2 extender cables.....reading the classiccmp archives > back to 1998 makes me think I should be impressed since the 5161 isn't that > common? It all apparently works but I won't be able to set it up fully till I am told they're fairly rare -- I've got a couple of them though. There's info on it in the Options and Adapters TechRef volume 1 It adds 6 (8 bit ISA) slots to the machine (there are 8 slots in the expansion unit, but one is taken up by the receiver card, and you lose a slot in the main unit for the extender card). Not all cards can go in the expansion unit either -- IIRC graphics cards have to go in the main system, and you have to set the DIP switches on the extender card to indicate how much (if any) RAM is in the expansion unit rather than the main system. Standard I/O cards can go in the expansion unit without problems thougk -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 1 17:58:57 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: The Gospel according to ARD: In-Reply-To: <20030401024226.GB50772@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Mar 31, 3 09:42:26 pm Message-ID: > Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 11:40:58PM +0100: > > Since when have I been a collector, true or otherwise? It is not my aim > > to own one of every version of a particular machine, I don't care about > > original boxes, if I get shrink-wrapped manuals, I unwrap them (manuals > > are for reading!), very few (if any) of my machines are 'original'. All > > that surely means I am not a collector. > > Are you sure? :-) That would mean that I'm not a collector either. Well, I don;t think you are a collector.... > However, if I'm not a collector, why then am I collecting interesting > machines at random to use and modify... and, of course, preserve. I Oh, you're a hacker (in the true, original sense), an enthusiast, a high-mass-hobbyist, a preservationist, whatever. > don't care about having one version of every machine, the machine's I only want other versions if there are real differences (extra features, major redesign of some circuits, etc). I am not interested in having every known version of the nameplate... The HP80 financial calculator is a case in point. Collectors tell me there are all sorts of versions -- things like does the nameplate read 'Hewlett Packard' or 'Hewlett Packard 80'. I claim there are 2 important versions -- the early one with a hybrid circuit for the ROM, and the later one with ROMs in DIP packages (and IIRC, the circuit board is similar to that from an HP45 then). I care about what's inside the case. > circuitry). Historical significance, and preservation, are of > interest to me, but I still feel that what's most important is using Agreed. I don't like making changes for no good reason. If I can get the right part to repair a machine (meaning a modern replacement which is electrically and mechanically the same) then I'll use it. If I can't, though, I'd rather get something that will work than have a non-working machine. Of coruse I make as few changes as possible, don't do anything that can't be reversed if the original part does turn up, and document what I've done. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 1 18:01:37 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: <200303311843270531.06EC9677@192.168.42.129> from "Bruce Lane" at Mar 31, 3 06:43:27 pm Message-ID: > On 30-Mar-03 at 12:17 Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > >This may sound harsh, but what is your favorite programming language? > > > >It would be an excellent exercise for learning some programming. > > Yes, it is harsh, and such a statement is of absolutely no use to me > since there are plenty of other things I have chosen to devote my time > and energy to. > > I am, first and foremost, a hardware hack. I have a ton of respect So am I. I am much happier with a soldering iron and wirewrap tool than with a keyboard. However, I have realised over the years that sometimes I have to write a program to support my hardware interests. Maybe it's the firmware for a microcontroller on one of my boards. Maybe it's a file conversion utility (as here). I don't particularly enjoy doing it, but it has to be done sometimes. > In short; I will do it if I have no other way to accomplish my goal. > However, I will always search for a pre-written alternative (yes, I buy > stuff from shareware authors) before I think about rolling my own. For me, it depends on how long it would take. I probably wouldn't consider writing an OS or a language compiler from scratch. But for something like this it would probably take me less time to write it than it would to search for something that might do what I want. An analogy. You have a well-stocked junk box containing many DB25 connectors, and drums of multi-core cable. Your soldering iron is, as ever hot. You need a null-modem RS232 cable. The nearest shop that sells them takes you an hour (each way) to get to. Do you spend a couple of hours going out to buy one, or do you solder one up from the contents of the junk box. I know which I'd do. And I don't particularly enjoy making cables... Same with programming. If it's going to take about half an hour to write the program, well, I grab K&R, and start coding... > > Fortunately, a number of other list users have offered outstandingly > helpful pointers (thanks, troops!) As it turns out, it's not an odd-even > split I need; It's high-byte/low-byte split. I'm still digging, and I Care to explain what the difference is? As I understand it you have a file containing bytes like this (say) L0 H0 L1 H1 L2 H2.... And you want to make 2 files, one containing L0 L1 L2 ... And the other containing H0 H1 H2... Looks like an odd/even split to me. > find I often learn more along the way than I would if I sat down and > started coding. Odd, I find I learn more by solving the problem myself than battling with some ready-made solution that's not quite right... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 1 18:03:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: <200304011617.LAA08371@wordstock.com> from "Bryan Pope" at Apr 1, 3 11:17:37 am Message-ID: > Was Nuts & Volts ever available on the newsstand? Whenever I > go to B&N or MicroCenter I always look for Circuit Cellar to see > if there are any articles of interest. Even it is hard to find. In the UK, Nuts & Volts (which I don't buy) and Circuit Cellar (which I do) are available from Borders (as are several other US magazines like Home Shop Machinist, etc). > Yet B&N stocks the 2600 mag. I've seen that in Borders too... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 1 18:05:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <3E89E165.1040308@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Apr 1, 3 11:58:45 am Message-ID: > Can a regular disk be punched to make hard sectored disc? It should be possible. One thing I intent to try sometime is to strip down an old half-height direct-drive 5.25" floppy drive and mount a punch/die in place of the index sensor and an indexing plate in place of the rotor on the end of the spindle. It should then be quite easy to punch the extra holes. Making the new parts is not a major problem (I have a lathe with milling facilities and a dividing head...) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 1 18:06:26 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: <007501c2f886$0eccbcc0$0100000a@milkyway> from "Philip Pemberton" at Apr 1, 3 08:36:44 pm Message-ID: > Elektor are their same old selves, though. I was going to build one of their Tastes differ. Elektor is the _only_ UK electronics magazine that I buy... > USB sound cards - except for one problem. The main controller chip is a > Burr-Brown (TI) part that is damn near impossible to get in the UK... Several years ago I needed a Burr-Brown chip that nobody seemed to list. So I phoned Burr-Brown to be told they's supply 1-offs (and the price was not excessive). I don't know if they still do, but it's worth trying. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 1 18:07:50 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Rigney" at Apr 1, 3 12:31:15 pm Message-ID: > have yet to plug it in. All of the software I do have is hard-sector > HDOS... no CP/M whatsoever. I thought I had it, but apparently I don't, IIRC I haev HDOS on hard-sectored disks and CP/M on soft-sectored disks... > unless I missed a box. I have already contacted Don Maslin off list to > request a soft-sectored Magnolia CP/M boot disk, and check my thinking > here... it should be possible to create a bootable hard sector disk from the > bootable soft sectored one by installing both controllers. Unless I'm > missing something, that seems like a no-brainer. If that is in fact Yes, that should work. > possible, I will be happy to share the benefits of that (small) labor with > those in need. > > One unfortunate rub since my earlier discussion in this thread with Tony... > last night I pulled my reference machine out of storage and powered it up, > and it almost boots. Almost. A working machine went into storage six > months ago, but what has emerged seems to take a (hard sector) disk read > error on every modulo-10 numbered sector starting at 40 (that's sector, not > track), with any diskette I use. No problem with any other sectors, just Very odd... You might try checkking the index monostables on the hard sector controller (they only really do anything once per track, when the index hole between the sector holes comes round), but I can't see why it would then work for the first 4 cylinders. I am really digging into the depths of my memory here, but IIRC there's some RAM on the main CPU board used as a sector buffer, and it's 2114s. I might well be thinking of some other machine though. If there _are_ 2114s for this, then check them. As you know by now, 2114s are know for their unreliablitiy... -tony From spc at conman.org Tue Apr 1 18:12:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 02, 2003 12:21:32 AM Message-ID: <20030402000948.C187266C4@tower.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > > Fortunately, a number of other list users have offered outstandingly > > helpful pointers (thanks, troops!) As it turns out, it's not an odd-even > > split I need; It's high-byte/low-byte split. I'm still digging, and I > > Care to explain what the difference is? As I understand it you have a > file containing bytes like this (say) > > L0 H0 L1 H1 L2 H2.... > > And you want to make 2 files, one containing > L0 L1 L2 ... > > And the other containing > H0 H1 H2... > > Looks like an odd/even split to me. Might be a big-endian/little-endian issue. A Z80 (if I recall) would lay down 16 bit quantities as: L0 H0 L1 H1 L2 H2 ... while a 6809 (which I know) would lay out 16 bit quantities as: H0 L0 H1 L1 H2 L2 ... So maybe that's what he's talking about? -spc (But in either case, you'll still end up with two files and I would think that as long as you know which one you need where ... ) From CCTalk at catcorner.org Tue Apr 1 20:45:00 2003 From: CCTalk at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Two ESDI drives available Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B85A@308server.308dole.com> Well, I've made up my mind. Actually, I found a controller for these drives and have installed them in a computer I use to emulate the old Tandy's I collect. How's that... Emulating a 20 year old computer on a 10 year old computer with 15 year old hard drives. Now, on to the next question. I need a 34 conductor flat cable with male IDC on one end and socket on the other. Anyone know of a good source for these? Thanks, kelly -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Leavitt [mailto:CCTalk@catcorner.org] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 6:29 PM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: Two ESDI drives available I have two: Imprimis 94166-182 (150 MB) Maxtor XT-4170E (170MB) Any one need them? I collect mostly old Tandy stuff. Model II, 12, 16, 6000 is my main focus. Any interesting uses for these boat anchors? Thanks, Kelly From cb at mythtech.net Tue Apr 1 21:20:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Zebra Pick manuals Message-ID: >If the pick box is small, I'd be interested if it's available. :) The Zebra machine is LONG gone. One of my first tasks at this company was to replace it, that was some 13 or sheesh, maybe 15 years ago. There were two of them I think, and I know I tossed them in the dumpster (this was before my collecting days when I just didn't know any better). The two PC's running pick: One was dismantled, the DigiBoards have been repacked and stored, and the hard drive has been put in storage (with Pick still installed). The rest of the PC I think is either in storage or has been stripped of parts (it honestly might still be standing on end next to my desk... I get so used to seeing things in my office that I think of them as furniture and forget all about them). The other is sitting in storage in one peice, in theory it could be booted tomorrow, but it has been offline for probably about 5 or 6 years now. I think it might have a broken DigiBoard in it as well. I seem to recall that a capacitor was snapped off one of the DigiBoards at one point. What I don't remember is if it was one being reboxed (makes sense) or if it was one that was left in the whole PC. I'm not at the point of getting rid of the whole one yet. It was saved in its runnable state because it has an old job on it that we wanted to be able to just drop back in place and run again if we wanted to. Although, at this point, even if the client DID restart the job, I suspect they would have enough changes to it to make it worth while rewriting it on a newer system. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Tue Apr 1 21:23:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Zebra Pick manuals Message-ID: >I'd be happy to scan these, and forward them on to the person who >has the Zebra system.. In the event that the lady that used to run our Pick stuff doesn't want them... then I think sending them to Al for scanning is probably the best long term idea. I actually had planned to scan them myself, but I just never got around to it (nor have I ever done a scanning project, so I don't know how hard it is). I do have two people that would like them, and I'll feel bad telling them they can't have them... but personally I would be happiest knowing they go and get scanned so that everyone can benifit from them. -chris From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Apr 1 21:54:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: <200304011617.LAA08371@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <72319EC3-64BE-11D7-BBE7-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> > Was Nuts & Volts ever available on the newsstand? We sell it at Halted. Tell'em Ron sent you. We currently have 3 issues available. Ron. From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Apr 1 22:53:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Zebra Pick manuals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >If the pick box is small, I'd be interested if it's available. :) > > The Zebra machine is LONG gone. One of my first tasks at this company was > to replace it, that was some 13 or sheesh, maybe 15 years ago. There were Ok, thanks. Pick programming pays my bills so I like messing around with different flavors. :) g. From n8uhn at yahoo.com Tue Apr 1 23:16:00 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 Message-ID: <20030402051349.45233.qmail@web40703.mail.yahoo.com> The ibm 5161 expansion box was designed for use with the ibm pc. the pc had fewer slots then the later released pc xt and it's power supply was too small to handle a hard drive. the exp box added a hard drive to the system and provided extra card slots ( i think the box also had additional bios or came with an extra fixed disk rom chip that went into the pc). the card that connects to the ribbon cables that come from the exp box goes into one of the pc's card slots. i cannot remember if it is slot specific or if it can go into any slot - there is a plate on the pc's back that removes to allow the ribbon cables to exit the case. a local retired ibm ce had asked me years ago if i had ever seen one - as he was looking for one at the time. i was told that the expansion box was a little rare because, shortly after the pc was released that pc xt was released . the pc xt has a large enough power supply to support a hard drive as well as the bios to operate one and it has eight card slots. Bill Message: 44 From: "Witchy" To: Subject: IBM 5161 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:25:09 +0100 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Hi collecting folks, A surprise consignment arrived for me this morning - an IBM 5150 in not bad condition complete with keyboard/monitor and a 5161 expansion box, spare expansion card and 2 extender cables.....reading the classiccmp archives back to 1998 makes me think I should be impressed since the 5161 isn't that common? It all apparently works but I won't be able to set it up fully till tomorrow. Not much info about it on the web either, though because 5161 is obviously bits of a phone number there's a very high signal to noise ratio..... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans --__--__-- From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 1 23:24:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304011714.h31HEXAx020508@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 acme@ao.net wrote: > Do you have the means to copy such a diskette? I have a set of the original > distribution diskettes here, and last time I checked the boot diskette was > good. Glen, my fingers got a bit ahead of the facts, I fear. I had thought that UniForm in conjunction with their MatchPoint card was capable of reading the H89 hard sector format. That is not correct. But it may be possible using my N* Horizon to duplicate the H89 disk. Not sure. - don > > > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: > > > > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM and a > > > > compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, > > > > yeah. > > > > > > Don Maslin can probably help you with the CP/M boot disk. But you are > > > going to have to immediately come up with software for serial port file > > > transfer, since that is the only PRACTICAL way to transfer files to or > > > from hard-sectored disks. > > > > I wish that I could, Fred. Unfortunately, I do not have a hard > > sectored boot disk for the H89 to make a copy from so I am > > stumped. > > - don From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 1 23:31:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030401130904.66afcd6a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > I think I have some hard sectored disks if you need any. IIRC I have both 10 and 16 sectored ones. FWIW I don't think any have > Heathkit SW. Thanks, Joe, at present I am fairly comfortable in the 10-sector world, and just the other day picked up a couple still sealed boxes of 3M 16-sector disks. Who'd 'a thunk it? From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 1 23:37:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304011805.KAA22804@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > As I mentioned earlier, I have a Forth that runs standalone > on hard sectored. Since it is standalone, I've used it to > make exact copies of other disk. I've done things like changing > the interleaving to make about a 10X improvement in load > speeds for many programs. Is it available for download, Dwight? - don > It has been a while since I had the machine running. I can > fire it up and check what I have. The only issue I have for > making copies for others is the media. I only have a few > hard sectored disk. For some reason, I thought that disk > formats would last at least as long as 33 lp records. I > didn't realize at the time that media was being obsoleted > as fast as it was produced. I know better now. > Anyway, if I can get it all running, I'll make copies > if someone supplies media. > Dwight From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Apr 2 01:57:42 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32784.64.169.63.74.1049177765.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > What is the difference between odd/even and high/low? > >>As it turns out, it's not an odd-even split I need; It's >> high-byte/low-byte split. On a big-endian processor, the high byte is the even byte, and the low byte is the odd byte. On a little-endian processor, it's the other way around. From Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk Wed Apr 2 03:02:00 2003 From: Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF388@OHM1003A> Charlie, Your subject disagrees with the body, which would you like to buy, an HX-20 or an HX-40? I have three HX-20s. I only need one for my collection, so I'm willing to sell or swap two of them. I'm in Manchester in the UK. paul -----Original Message----- From: charles finnegan [mailto:finncr@msn.com] Sent: 01 April 2003 01:13 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Epson HX-20 I would like to buy a EPSON HX-40. Who can help. I also need a printer cable. Charlie From RAWagner at tribune.com Wed Apr 2 03:27:02 2003 From: RAWagner at tribune.com (Wagner, Robert A.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Looking for vaxft 410 Message-ID: <1F9F80A15E70BE49AA6CEF6748B4644E0235ED9B@erd-fc-mb1> The company I work for is looking to purchase a vaxft 410 and/or spare parts. We might be able to trade for PDP-11 parts PICS Vaxft 410 MODEL # 52XBA-AA-C05, Series BA22 BOARDS ------------------ T3999AA KFE52-AA KA550-AA 17-02194REV.A01 62351-000 MS520-BA MS520-BA T3999-AA Any help in locating a replacement box or parts would be appreciated. Thanks, Bob Wagner Systems Analyst Chicago Tribune rawagner@tribune.com From david at dakota.dk Wed Apr 2 03:28:31 2003 From: david at dakota.dk (David Troutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: keyboard translator Message-ID: Hello there, Found your address through Google. We are trying to connect a Vax 3850 using a LK201 keyboard and a ?mouse to ps2 based KVM switch. Do you know of any products that can do the translation? regards, David Troutman From jmaranon at ing.unlp.edu.ar Wed Apr 2 03:29:54 2003 From: jmaranon at ing.unlp.edu.ar (Julio =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mara=F1=F3n?= Di Leo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Z-Star 433 VL info/parts Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20030401154858.0079a7b0@volta.ing.unlp.edu.ar> Hello Ray: I've got one notebook like that you have. I think is difficult to run win95 in this machine, because it has 2 Mb RAM memory, but if you get about 10 Mb RAM more you can run win95. I haven't got the battery pack, maybe you can build one buying the adecuate batteries. But, now, I am asking something to you. Do you have the owner manual of the machine (better if you have an archive with this and the technical information)? The machine that I have is not working and I am looking for technical information. thanks, Julio From thosmm at yahoo.com Wed Apr 2 03:31:17 2003 From: thosmm at yahoo.com (Thomas Martin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Victor Keyboard Identification In-Reply-To: <20030401180000.47782.64069.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030401185151.89937.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> Rob, It's an enhanced keyboard from a Victor 9000 system. They were built in the early 80's and were pretty good machines. 80 track 5.25" disks held 1.6MB and ran CP/M-86 or MS-DOS. 800x400 graphics mode, although most were monochrome. You can also see them labeled as Sirius machines from time to time. Tom >>Hi All, > Can anyone help me identify what machine this >keyboard goes to: >http://idisk.mac.com/colourfull_creations/Public/victor.jpg >It's from Victor Business Products. It says Model 703 >on the bottom. It >also has a keyboard cable with an RJ-45 plug on it. >I just acquired it this weekend. I only have the >keyboard not the >machine. >Thanks >Rob ===== ---------------------- "I drank what?!" - Socrates Thomas Martin thosmm@yahoo.com From vance at neurotica.com Wed Apr 2 03:32:41 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > USB sound cards - except for one problem. The main controller chip is > > a Burr-Brown (TI) part that is damn near impossible to get in the > > UK... > > Several years ago I needed a Burr-Brown chip that nobody seemed to list. > So I phoned Burr-Brown to be told they's supply 1-offs (and the price > was not excessive). I don't know if they still do, but it's worth > trying. Burr-Brown is part of TI now, and they use TI's gigantic distribution structure. Peace... Sridhar From xtguy at mindspring.com Wed Apr 2 03:35:56 2003 From: xtguy at mindspring.com (Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Victor keyboard identification Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20030401185339.00db26d8@mindspring.com> I have a Victor 9000 (a.k.a. 'Sirius') with a keyboard that looks identical to that. (just joined the list a couple of days ago.) Kevin From xtguy at mindspring.com Wed Apr 2 03:37:20 2003 From: xtguy at mindspring.com (xtguy@mindspring.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: software mentioned in March Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20030401190758.00db26d8@mindspring.com> Last month, someone mentioned some old software they had found in an old house. Listed among the items was a copy of Word Perfect 3.0 for DOS. I've been trying to find that for a while and if it's still available, I'd be interested. I'm also trying to find a copy of Word Perfect 2.0 for DOS, and a copy of Wordstar 2x for CP/M. Thanks. Kevin From kelly at catcorner.org Wed Apr 2 03:38:44 2003 From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Two ESDI drives available Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B859@308server.308dole.com> Well, I've made up my mind. Actually, I found a controller for these drives and have installed them in a computer I use to emulate the old Tandy's I collect. How's that... Emulating a 20 year old computer on a 10 year old computer with 15 year old hard drives. Now, on to the next question. I need a 34 conductor flat cable with male IDC on one end and socket on the other. Anyone know of a good source for these? Thanks, kelly -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Leavitt [mailto:CCTalk@catcorner.org] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 6:29 PM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: Two ESDI drives available I have two: Imprimis 94166-182 (150 MB) Maxtor XT-4170E (170MB) Any one need them? I collect mostly old Tandy stuff. Model II, 12, 16, 6000 is my main focus. Any interesting uses for these boat anchors? Thanks, Kelly From bqt at update.uu.se Wed Apr 2 03:52:01 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Ultrix Driver Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 04:28 AM, sridhar@neurotica.com wrote: > > Hi people. I assume that SDI disks show up as /dev/ra* on Ultrix? > > What > > do the SDI controllers show up as? Specifically, the XMI ones? > > If memory serves, they'd show up as kdm. Looks like it, yes... From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Apr 2 06:07:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Two ESDI drives available In-Reply-To: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B859@308server.308dole.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Kelly Leavitt wrote: > Well, I've made up my mind. Actually, I found a controller for these drives > and have installed them in a computer I use to emulate the old Tandy's I > collect. How's that... Emulating a 20 year old computer on a 10 year old > computer with 15 year old hard drives. > > Now, on to the next question. I need a 34 conductor flat cable with male IDC > on one end and socket on the other. Anyone know of a good source for these? Err, maybe old PC's? I've got some of those laying around from ST-506 interface (MFM/RLL) drive controllers, mail me off-list if interested. pat@purdueriots.com Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From fm.arnold at gmx.net Wed Apr 2 08:42:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Interupting RSX startup, (was:Ignoring Mount requests on startup in OpenVMS) In-Reply-To: <20030401160630.46921.31236.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030401160630.46921.31236.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 01.04.2003: From: "Don Mitchell" To: Subject: Ignoring Mount requests on startup in OpenVMS Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:49:46 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org >.... >Who remembers how you could interrupt an RSX startup and >then, with luck, >PIP your way out of trouble with files that shouldn't have >been there? > >Don Mitchell That's simple: type a ctrl/c a few times during the the startup-file output to get the explicit MCR> prompt. There you type "abo at." at. is the indirect task executes the startup.cmd file. If you'r luckey, you have now an open console that is also priviledged. If you're unluckey then a smart sysadmin may however have build some precautions into the startup.cmd file to prevent this to happen. Frank From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Apr 2 09:36:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: software mentioned in March In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20030401190758.00db26d8@mindspring.com> Message-ID: > Wordstar 2x for CP/M. > Try http://www.retroarchive.org. I may have a copy in the commercial area. g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Apr 2 09:40:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP] (fwd) Message-ID: This may be of interest....unfortunately. g. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 06:24:50 -0500 From: Bob Klahn To: trs80@cs.ubc.ca Subject: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP] Just got this msg today. Didn't check yesterday. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fustanella" Newsgroups: comp.sys.tandy Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:06 AM Subject: Ed Juge, RIP > It is with great sadness, all the more on a day known for its pranks, > that I must pass on from a friend that Ed Juge passed away today. He had > been battling a brain tumor for several months. > > Ed was one of those unique individuals who was instantly liked by anyone > who came in contact with him. He was a friend and a mentor to many > people, whether they knew him or not - his work with Tandy and the > TRS-80s, and his TANDYPRO Forum on CompuServe, helped bring personal > computing to the masses in the Seventies and early Eighties. When his > passion transferred to his later interest of RVing, he helped many enjoy > the road all the more. > > Friends and former co-workers of his plan to hold a 'Virtual Wake' on > Wednesday, April 2 at 9.00pm ET, 6.00pm PT. Anyone and everyone is > welcome to drop by and pay their online respects, share stories, and > perhaps a toast or two. It's being held on the RV Forum on CompuServe > (http://go.compuserve.com/rv - free to all, not just CS members), chat > room 1 (Virtual Campfire). > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get 128 Bit SSL Encryption! http://us.click.yahoo.com/xaxhjB/hdqFAA/VygGAA/CFFolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Using an emulator? Please join! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com -- Bob Klahn bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Apr 2 09:42:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Fw: [Suns-at-Home] [robc@solarflares.net: SPARCServer 2000,anyone want one?] References: <4855.4.20.168.178.1048819947.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030327234017.029c5c00@mail.30below.com> <2379.4.20.168.178.1048829854.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E8B0461.EBA02A3A@comcast.net> Eric Smith wrote: > > Roger wrote: > > Yes you are... I had to purchase (1) set of male & female connectors > > last year -- set me back darned near $60USD! > > Be glad your machine only needs something common and inexpensive. I need > a 208/120V 3-phase 60A 4P 5W IEC 309 pin-and-sleeve receptacle. Although > not strictly necessary, I'd prefer to get one with a mechanical interlock, > such as a Hubbell HBL560MI9W, and I shudder to even think about what > that's going to cost. (I can't find a price online, and you know what > that means.) Eric --- I sent you a direct e-mail about this receptacle. Did you get it? -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Apr 2 10:48:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Gernsback Publishing closing References: Message-ID: <002301c2f937$811a57e0$0100000a@milkyway> Tony Duell wrote: >> Elektor are their same old selves, though. I was going to build one >> of their > Tastes differ. Elektor is the _only_ UK electronics magazine that I > buy... Hmm... I've never been able to get any of the "unobtainium" parts for any of their projects. DigiKey stock the device, but I am *not* paying ?12 shipping! It should cost around $5 to send a Jiffy bag via USPS, plus about $2 for the Jiffy envelope. Which makes $7 or about ?5... > Several years ago I needed a Burr-Brown chip that nobody seemed to > list. > So I phoned Burr-Brown to be told they's supply 1-offs (and the price > was > not excessive). I don't know if they still do, but it's worth trying. Burr-Brown has been "absorbed" into TI. I'll try TI UK first, then if that fails, I'll start contacting their distis - Arrow, etc. What annoys me is that Farnell are listed as one of TI's distis, but all they seem to stock are TI opamps and 74LS chips! Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Apr 2 11:08:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette Message-ID: <200304021705.JAA23662@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Don Maslin" > >On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> Hi >> As I mentioned earlier, I have a Forth that runs standalone >> on hard sectored. Since it is standalone, I've used it to >> make exact copies of other disk. I've done things like changing >> the interleaving to make about a 10X improvement in load >> speeds for many programs. > >Is it available for download, Dwight? > > - don Hi Don Not yet but it could be. Since it is a standalone, I don't know how one could easily transfer it with HDOS. Still, I think I can come up with a simple serial to disk boot strap that would allow one to dump it from a PC onto the H89 disk, through the serial port of the H89. I've done this for several other processor ( like my Poly88 for tape images and my IMSAI to bring it back to life ). It has been a long time since I've looked at the disk EPROM's access methods. I'm sure I can figure it out and get something going. That way you could save the disk as an image file and all one would have to do is enter a small boot strap program from the monitor to get it going. I've always felt that this was the way you should be maintaining the library since it is simpler than sending media around the world. It does require that the machine in question have a code monitor or possibly a location to install a bootstrapping EPROM at worst. In any case, it would be good to get my Forth and the HDOS stuff I have transferred to something that can be easily distributed. Dwight > >> It has been a while since I had the machine running. I can >> fire it up and check what I have. The only issue I have for >> making copies for others is the media. I only have a few >> hard sectored disk. For some reason, I thought that disk >> formats would last at least as long as 33 lp records. I >> didn't realize at the time that media was being obsoleted >> as fast as it was produced. I know better now. >> Anyway, if I can get it all running, I'll make copies >> if someone supplies media. >> Dwight > > From patrick at evocative.com Wed Apr 2 12:14:01 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > [Tony wrote:] > Very odd... > > You might try checkking the index monostables on the hard sector > controller (they only really do anything once per track, when the index > hole between the sector holes comes round), but I can't see why it would > then work for the first 4 cylinders. Well, as it turned out, the stepper motor on the drive was locking up. The further towards the inner tracks it got, the more it struggled, and it wasn't close to correctly centering over any track beyond the first few. I'll mess with that later. I was able to replace the drive with a spare, and I'm again up and running. I produced several good test boot disks, BUT, I don't know how well that new drive is aligned, it's straight off the shelf from the As-Is room at Wierd Stuff. Rotation speed is spot-on according to the internal diag, but I don't have a 5.25" alignment disk to check it otherwise. Anyone who receives a boot disk from me is, therefore, going to be my "canary in the mine." :-) Next task... get the soft-sectored controller running. Unfortunately I have no docs for this whatsoever, not even a schematic. I understand that it requires MTR-90, and possibly a certain HDOS software distribution as well. Does anyone know? Patrick From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Apr 2 13:03:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Victor Keyboard Identification References: <20030401185151.89937.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E8B33B5.9050303@gifford.co.uk> Thomas Martin wrote: > You can also see them labeled as Sirius machines from > time to time. Yes, I'd have called it a Sirius keyboard! Mine are darker in colour, though; dark grey instead of beige. I have a spare Sirius I, if anyone in the UK would like one -- as designed by Chuck Peddle. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 2 13:09:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: <20030402051349.45233.qmail@web40703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Bill Allen Jr wrote: > The ibm 5161 expansion box was designed for use with > the ibm pc. > the exp box added a hard drive to the system and > provided extra card slots ( i think the box also had > additional bios or came with an extra fixed disk rom > chip that went into the pc). NOT for the hard disk. > i cannot remember if it is slot specific or if it can > go into any slot - there is a plate on the pc's back > that removes to allow the ribbon cables to exit the > case. The slots on the PC are wired in parallel. There is NO electrical difference between them, other than physical distances. But in the XT, one slot is different. At the time of the release of the XT, IBM was worried that people would use that slot for something incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to block off that slot. > the pc xt has a large enough power supply to support > a hard drive as well as the bios to operate one and it > has eight card slots. The XT BIOS does NOT include hard drive support. The ROM that includes that extension to the BIOS is on the XT hard drive controller card. The AT was the first to include hard drive support in the motherboard BIOS. All but the very earliest 5150s had a BIOS that would scan for additional ROMs, and other than number of slots and power supply inadequacy, would take a hard drive EXACTLY the same way as an XT. I think that the 5161 CAN be used on an XT, if eight is not enough. BTW, IBM called it a "FIXED DRIVE", instead of calling it a "HARD DRIVE". At their "Technical Briefing" when they introduced it, they said that that was "because "HARD DRIVE" might sound like it was "hard to use", and therefore "FIXED DRIVE" would have better connotations". Some wise-ass in the audience said, "... in a VETERINARY context?" They also called the motherboard a "SYSTEM BOARD", due to possible associations of "MOTHERBOARD" with the usage of the word "MOTHER..." by the Black Panthers, et al. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Apr 2 13:11:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette Message-ID: <200304021907.LAA23725@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Patrick Rigney" > >> [Tony wrote:] >> Very odd... >> >> You might try checkking the index monostables on the hard sector >> controller (they only really do anything once per track, when the index >> hole between the sector holes comes round), but I can't see why it would >> then work for the first 4 cylinders. > >Well, as it turned out, the stepper motor on the drive was locking up. The >further towards the inner tracks it got, the more it struggled, and it >wasn't close to correctly centering over any track beyond the first few. >I'll mess with that later. I was able to replace the drive with a spare, >and I'm again up and running. I produced several good test boot disks, BUT, >I don't know how well that new drive is aligned, it's straight off the shelf >from the As-Is room at Wierd Stuff. Rotation speed is spot-on according to >the internal diag, but I don't have a 5.25" alignment disk to check it >otherwise. Anyone who receives a boot disk from me is, therefore, going to >be my "canary in the mine." :-) > >Next task... get the soft-sectored controller running. Unfortunately I have >no docs for this whatsoever, not even a schematic. I understand that it >requires MTR-90, and possibly a certain HDOS software distribution as well. >Does anyone know? > >Patrick > Hi Old dry grease is quite common on these old drives, as well as slight corrosion on the guide bars. You should be able to relube and get it running, without changing the stepper settings. As I recall, the H89's came with one of the snail track type positioners. The biggest problem would be the guides. Dwight From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 2 13:16:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Two ESDI drives available In-Reply-To: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B859@308server.308dole.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Kelly Leavitt wrote: > Now, on to the next question. I need a 34 conductor flat cable with male IDC > on one end and socket on the other. Anyone know of a good source for these? The ESDI drives use the exact same cabling as the "MFM ST506/412" drives. The twist on the hard drive cables is NOT the same as the twist on floppy cables. But if you jumper the drive right, you can use an AT floppy cable and cut off the twisted part. From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Apr 2 13:42:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: New Heathkit/Zenith Find Message-ID: <021201c2f94f$8a25a250$c509dd40@oemcomputer> Today at a local computer shop I picked up Heathkit/Zenith Educational System ET-1000 Circuit Design Trainer. No manual for it but I have do checked online yet. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 2 13:57:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: <32784.64.169.63.74.1049177765.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > > What is the difference between odd/even and high/low? > >>As it turns out, it's not an odd-even split I need; It's > >> high-byte/low-byte split. On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > On a big-endian processor, the high byte is the even byte, and the > low byte is the odd byte. > On a little-endian processor, it's the other way around. ... and if we are using a little-endian machine to split a file made from big-endian contents, ... Well, we either need FOUR different programs: odd/even, even/odd, high/low, and low/high. :-) OR, one program, and rename the files appropriately after splitting them. On the code that I posted earlier, there is one significant error: FILE *FPIN, FPO1, FPO2; needs to be: FILE *FPIN, *FPO1, *FPO2; Also, some operating systems will require filenames (including STDIO.H) to be in lower case, and few compilers will require FILE.H. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From kth at srv.net Wed Apr 2 14:01:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: New Heathkit/Zenith Find References: <021201c2f94f$8a25a250$c509dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3E8B47DD.9040801@srv.net> Keys wrote: >Today at a local computer shop I picked up Heathkit/Zenith Educational >System ET-1000 Circuit Design Trainer. No manual for it but I have do >checked online yet. > > > Heathkit had a series of instruction manuals that used this device (plus part kits for each manual). The manuals were in binders, and fairly long. I don't know if they are still available anywhere though, anthough I think I may have a set of them. From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 2 14:11:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:45 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 Message-ID: >But in the XT, one slot is different. Why? -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 2 14:18:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030402201522.67343.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- chris wrote: > >But in the XT, one slot is different. > > Why? There is a buffer chip that buffers signals to the other slots, but this one slot is on the CPU-side of the chip, thus is not *idential* to the other slots. IBM's serial card is not affected by this difference which is why they decided it was easier to give away a serial card than deal with the customer-support issue of random 3rd-party cards not working in that slot. -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 2 14:26:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: XT slot differences (was: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, chris wrote: > >But in the XT, one slot is different. > > Why? The slot closest to the power supply (and to the processor) does not have the same buffering as the other slots. Tony might know the REAL reason. I have heard various speculations: for a co-processor card a mistake to save 25 cents because the serial card that was going in there doesn't need it From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 2 14:34:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Qbus artifact score! Message-ID: <20030402203132.53280.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> I was visiting a data-center-not-to-be-named and talked them out of an item on the scrap heap - a CompuServe Tri-Node - it's a rackable box, about 21" tall (twice as tall as an RX01, say), with *3* independent Qbuses inside. The only cards I got were some CompuServe-branded grant cards and one terminator each. I don't know how long ago it was gutted, but it's been sitting on a pallet for months. The front panel is in triplicate - three boot switches, three LTC switches and three run switches. It has three power switches on the back, and three watchdog boards inside. *Dual* boot?!? Nay! Three OSes in one! I should have enough PDP-11 boards to have an RT-11, a 2BSD, and some thing else, all in the same cabinet (external disks, naturally). I have plenty of LSI-11 and KDF-11 boards, but not KDJ-11, unfortunately. If only there was a DEC terminal with triple-session capability. Maybe I could rig up a video switcher and use three VT240 bases?!? (I know I can switch the RS-232 line, but that won't preserve screen contents of the other sessions) ... or perhaps three ports on a terminal server... The only thing missing is the back door skin. It was apparently removed some years ago, and none of the tri-nodes have them. Should be a bunch of fun getting this guy running! -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 2 14:39:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: XT slots (was: RE: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: <20030402201522.67343.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > >But in the XT, one slot is different. > > Why? On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > decided it was easier to give away a serial card than deal with the > customer-support issue of random 3rd-party cards not working in that > slot. But "WHY?" Did they leave off the buffer chip BECAUSE the serial card didn't need it? Or did they use the serial card to cover up a MISTAKE? Or did they have some OTHER plan for it, and used the serial card as a "placeholder"? From patrick at evocative.com Wed Apr 2 14:40:27 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304021907.LAA23725@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > Hi > Old dry grease is quite common on these old drives, as > well as slight corrosion on the guide bars. You should > be able to relube and get it running, without changing > the stepper settings. > As I recall, the H89's came with one of the snail track > type positioners. The biggest problem would be the guides. > Dwight Dwight, yes, the mechanism is very stiff, and I hope a little careful lub'ing may restore its health. Now that I think about, though, I wasn't very smart by trying as many diskettes as I did... hopefully I didn't strain/burn/damage the stepper during my experimentation. This drive is worm gear rather than snail track. It's one of the drives with the gigantic door that covers almost the entire face of the drive... Siemens FDD100-5. I think this is the drive that's original to these beasts, so I'd like to keep it alive if I can. Patrick From akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to Wed Apr 2 15:13:00 2003 From: akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to (akb+lists.cctech@imap1.mirror.to) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: paper tape questions Message-ID: Hi-- I was wondering, is all blank papertape media interchangeable? I know that it can be made of paper or mylar, and that it comes fanfolded and on spools, but are there variations that would block interoperability, like varying widths? In particular, I'm wondering if any one can tell me if the tape offered up on ebay at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2519056219&category=11805 will work in my friden flex-o-writer sps... (for that matter, if anyone here can help me find sps user and repair manuals, that'd be lovely... I'd like to know the pinouts on the i/o ports on the side, and I need to repair one of the carriage return straps...) --thanks in advance --akb From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Apr 2 15:46:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette Message-ID: <200304022143.NAA23809@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Patrick Rigney" > >> Hi >> Old dry grease is quite common on these old drives, as >> well as slight corrosion on the guide bars. You should >> be able to relube and get it running, without changing >> the stepper settings. >> As I recall, the H89's came with one of the snail track >> type positioners. The biggest problem would be the guides. >> Dwight > >Dwight, yes, the mechanism is very stiff, and I hope a little careful >lub'ing may restore its health. Now that I think about, though, I wasn't >very smart by trying as many diskettes as I did... hopefully I didn't >strain/burn/damage the stepper during my experimentation. Hi You don't have to worry about the stepper. These draw almost the same power if they are stalled or moving. Especially at the slow speeds used for a disk drive. Dwight > >This drive is worm gear rather than snail track. It's one of the drives >with the gigantic door that covers almost the entire face of the drive... >Siemens FDD100-5. I think this is the drive that's original to these >beasts, so I'd like to keep it alive if I can. > >Patrick From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Apr 2 15:52:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: IBM RS/6000: PS needed Message-ID: I managed to pick up a near-complete RS/6000 model 250 (7011-250) today, complete with ram, disk, framebuffer, sound card, and video capture card... A pretty neat thing to play with if it had a working power supply. Does anyone have a spare that they would be willing to part with? Thanks, Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jss at subatomix.com Wed Apr 2 16:18:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: OT: [CCTALK] Re: OT? FW: (was: (Re:) Fwd: [CCTECH] RE: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP] (fwd) +++ATH0 [Forward] FSOT ((Re:)) IANAL(Was: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP])) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <687675276.20030402161553@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, Gene Buckle wrote: > > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP] (fwd) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > This may be of interest....unfortunately. Yeah -- as an example of how NOT to write a message subject. -- Jeffrey Sharp From melamy at earthlink.net Wed Apr 2 16:22:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: XT slots (was: RE: IBM 5161 Message-ID: <02040392.46314@webbox.com> after checking in my IBM XT reference manual, the fact is that they added a buffer to the normal data and address bus and sent buffered these signals into J8. Also, they added a 14.318mhz oscillator on the expansion chassis side because they did not want pass this high of a frequency over the cable. This does mean that the manin 14mhz and the expansion chassis 14mhz are not in phase. The added buffers make the timning in slot 8 a littl emore tight because of the added delays through the additional chips. Slot 8 also had a requirement that it supply a card selected signal back to make sure the card was really ready to be accessed. The buffering from an engineering standpoint was done to increase the drive on the cable to the expansion chassis as well as help isolate the rest of the system bus from any added capacitance and noise from the outside world. best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 4/2/03 12:36:58 PM > > > >But in the XT, one slot is different. >> > Why? > >On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> decided it was easier to give away a serial card than deal with the >> customer-support issue of random 3rd-party cards not working in that >> slot. > >But "WHY?" >Did they leave off the buffer chip BECAUSE the serial card didn't need it? >Or did they use the serial card to cover up a MISTAKE? >Or did they have some OTHER plan for it, and used the serial card as a >"placeholder"? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 2 16:39:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: paper tape questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030402174156.4f8f7e04@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I know that PT was available in both 7/8" and 1" widths. Probably others as well. AFIK 7/8" was used for 5 bit stuff and 1" was used for 8 bit. Joe At 04:10 PM 4/2/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hi-- > >I was wondering, is all blank papertape media interchangeable? >I know that it can be made of paper or mylar, >and that it comes fanfolded and on spools, >but are there variations that would block interoperability, >like varying widths? > >In particular, I'm wondering if any one can tell me if the >tape offered up on ebay at >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2519056219&category=11805 > >will work in my friden flex-o-writer sps... > >(for that matter, if anyone here can help me find sps user and >repair manuals, that'd be lovely... I'd like to know the pinouts on >the i/o ports on the side, and I need to repair one of the carriage >return straps...) > > --thanks in advance > --akb From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 2 16:59:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: paper tape questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030402225620.7439.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- akb+lists.cctech@imap1.mirror.to wrote: > Hi-- > > I was wondering, is all blank papertape media interchangeable? > I know that it can be made of paper or mylar, > and that it comes fanfolded and on spools, > but are there variations that would block interoperability, > like varying widths? Besides the width (7/8" vs 1" vs other (12-channel paper tape for printer carriages)), there's an issue of oiled vs non-oiled. Generally speaking, oiled paper tape is going to be read in a slow, mechanical reader and is punched in a slow punch (think ASR-33) and non-oiled paper tape is going to be read in an optical (fast) reader and is punched in a faster punch that is lubricated as part of its normal maintenance cycle (think PC04/PC05). Mylar tape is nice when you expect to read things many, many times, but punching lots of it can dull your punch if it's expecting nice, soft paper. I can't tell you what's appropriate for your application. I do know that you can still buy fan-fold and spools of paper tape from commercial sources. I *think* that $20 per roll is too high for what they are selling, but if I'm wrong, I'm sure plenty of folks will chime in. -ethan From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Apr 2 17:03:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: OT: [CCTALK] Re: OT? FW: (was: (Re:) Fwd: [CCTECH] RE: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP] (fwd) +++ATH0 [Forward] FSOT ((Re:)) IANAL(Was: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP])) In-Reply-To: <687675276.20030402161553@subatomix.com> Message-ID: > On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP] (fwd) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > This may be of interest....unfortunately. > > Yeah -- as an example of how NOT to write a message subject. > Hey, don't shoot the messenger - I forwarded the message as I got it from the TRS-80 list. If you don't like the subject line, take it up with Thanatos and the guy that posted the message. g. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Apr 2 17:13:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: paper tape questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030402174156.4f8f7e04@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030402174156.4f8f7e04@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200304021510590816.1076A92B@192.168.42.129> Hey, troops, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 02-Apr-03 at 17:41 Joe wrote: >I know that PT was available in both 7/8" and 1" widths. Probably others >as well. AFIK 7/8" was used for 5 bit stuff and 1" was used for 8 bit. > > Joe > >At 04:10 PM 4/2/03 -0500, you wrote: >>Hi-- >> >>I was wondering, is all blank papertape media interchangeable? >>I know that it can be made of paper or mylar, >>and that it comes fanfolded and on spools, >>but are there variations that would block interoperability, >>like varying widths? It all depends on the punch involved. For example, many punches required oil-impregnated tape. Others did not. I also recall that it took a punch with a specially-designed block to handle the mylar stuff. The widths are standardized for both 5-level (Baudot) and 8-level (ASCII) code. I remember all this from my days servicing Teletype machines (boy, did I just date myself...) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From jss at subatomix.com Wed Apr 2 17:22:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: OT: [CCTALK] Re: OT? FW: (was: (Re:) Fwd: [CCTECH] RE: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP] (fwd) +++ATH0 [Forward] FSOT ((Re:)) IANAL(Was: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP])) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5511499265.20030402171937@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, Gene Buckle wrote: > > On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP] (fwd) > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > This may be of interest....unfortunately. > > > > Yeah -- as an example of how NOT to write a message subject. > > Hey, don't shoot the messenger BTW, just to clarify, my comment *was* an attempt at humor. :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 2 17:31:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: XT slots (was: RE: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: <02040392.46314@webbox.com> Message-ID: Thank you for the details. But could you explain (for those of us who barely know which end of a soldering iron to hold), WHY did they do that? What did they gain by it? What use is the difference? On 2 Apr 2003, Steve Thatcher wrote: > after checking in my IBM XT reference manual, the fact is that > they added a buffer to the normal data and address bus and sent > buffered these signals into J8. Also, they added a 14.318mhz > oscillator on the expansion chassis side because they did not > want pass this high of a frequency over the cable. This does > mean that the manin 14mhz and the expansion chassis 14mhz are > not in phase. > The added buffers make the timning in slot 8 a littl emore tight > because of the added delays through the additional chips. Slot > 8 also had a requirement that it supply a card selected signal > back to make sure the card was really ready to be accessed. > > The buffering from an engineering standpoint was done to increase > the drive on the cable to the expansion chassis as well as help > isolate the rest of the system bus from any added capacitance > and noise from the outside world. > > best regards, Steve Thatcher From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Apr 2 17:46:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: OT: [CCTALK] Re: OT? FW: (was: (Re:) Fwd: [CCTECH] RE: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP] (fwd) +++ATH0 [Forward] FSOT ((Re:)) IANAL(Was: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP])) In-Reply-To: <5511499265.20030402171937@subatomix.com> Message-ID: > > > > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP] (fwd) > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > This may be of interest....unfortunately. > > > > > > Yeah -- as an example of how NOT to write a message subject. > > > > Hey, don't shoot the messenger > > BTW, just to clarify, my comment *was* an attempt at humor. :-) > Oh. *sheepish grin* g. From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Apr 2 17:47:29 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Qbus artifact score! References: <20030402203132.53280.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <027f01c2f971$96f51520$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 2:31 PM Subject: Qbus artifact score! >If only there was a> DEC terminal with triple-session capability. >Should be a bunch of fun getting this guy running! > > -ethan > Ethan, Try a VT525, it has FOUR sessions using cabling (does not require ssu or multisessions). I have one and it is very helpful. Another way to do this is with one VT-something terminal hooked to a DECserver 200 or 300 and use reverse-LAT; connect the various computers consoles to the DECserver and use the terminal to connect to the various ports to control or configure the machine or boot / shutdown. You can also connect a VT525 to a KVM switch and use one keyboard and mouse to control PC's, Alpha's, etc. Stuart Johnson From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 2 18:01:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: keyboard translator In-Reply-To: from "David Troutman" at Apr 1, 3 12:05:16 pm Message-ID: > Hello there, > Found your address through Google. > We are trying to connect a Vax 3850 using a LK201 keyboard and a ?mouse to > ps2 based KVM switch. Do you know of any products that can do the > translation? All I can tell you is that the LK201 interface uses different voltage levels to the PS/2 interface (The LK201 is essentially RS232 levels with a 12V supply, the PS/2 is TTL levels with a 5V supply), and a totally different protocol (the LK201 is 4800 buad async, the PS/2 is, IIRC, a synchronous interfacem, with clock and data lines). A translator between them is not going to be totally trivial therefore. It would certainly need a microcontroller at each end. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 2 18:03:38 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: <20030402000948.C187266C4@tower.conman.org> from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at Apr 1, 3 07:09:47 pm Message-ID: > > Care to explain what the difference is? As I understand it you have a > > file containing bytes like this (say) > > > > L0 H0 L1 H1 L2 H2.... > > > > And you want to make 2 files, one containing > > L0 L1 L2 ... > > > > And the other containing > > H0 H1 H2... > > > > Looks like an odd/even split to me. > > Might be a big-endian/little-endian issue. A Z80 (if I recall) would lay > down 16 bit quantities as: > > L0 H0 L1 H1 L2 H2 ... > > while a 6809 (which I know) would lay out 16 bit quantities as: > > H0 L0 H1 L1 H2 L2 ... Sure... But once you've split them up into Hn and Ln files, does it matter? Provided you know which way round the bytes were originally and which file then ended up in. You can just pick the appropriate file for the high and low bytes in each case. > > So maybe that's what he's talking about? > > -spc (But in either case, you'll still end up with two files and I would > think that as long as you know which one you need where ... ) _Exactly_!!! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 2 18:06:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Two ESDI drives available In-Reply-To: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B85A@308server.308dole.com> from "Kelly Leavitt" at Apr 1, 3 09:42:21 pm Message-ID: > Now, on to the next question. I need a 34 conductor flat cable with male IDC > on one end and socket on the other. Anyone know of a good source for these? Do you mean you need a cable that could be used as an extension for a 3.5" floppy drive? The male header plug is not trivial to get (but it does exist), and it's not trivial to crimp onto the cable without damage. I remember last time I had to do one, I bought the die for one of the 'propper' crimp tools (the die alone was not too expensive) and used that to support the plug. Then, when you've got the bits, just crimp them onto a bit of cable in the bench vice... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 2 18:07:24 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 2, 3 11:06:27 am Message-ID: > On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Bill Allen Jr wrote: > > The ibm 5161 expansion box was designed for use with > > the ibm pc. > > the exp box added a hard drive to the system and > > provided extra card slots ( i think the box also had > > additional bios or came with an extra fixed disk rom > > chip that went into the pc). > NOT for the hard disk. AFIAK there is no extra BIOS ROM for the expansion box. > > i cannot remember if it is slot specific or if it can > > go into any slot - there is a plate on the pc's back > > that removes to allow the ribbon cables to exit the > > case. The Extender crd that goes into the PC has a DC62 connector on the bracket. There's a similar one on the Receiver card in the expansion unit. You link them with a (round) cable. There are no ribbon cables involved, nothing comes out through slots in the PC case. > > The slots on the PC are wired in parallel. There is NO electrical > difference between them, other than physical distances. Correct. > But in the XT, one slot is different. At the time of the release of the > XT, IBM was worried that people would use that slot for something > incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current > loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port is a very useful thing to have... > block off that slot. One of the most stupid things IBM ever did was in the 5155 PortablePC. That machine has a standard PC/XT motherboard in it. Alas the case is just too short (about 1/2" too short) to allow the Async serial card to fit in the special slot 8. Which means that slot 8 is essentially useless in that machine. > I think that the 5161 CAN be used on an XT, if eight is not enough. Correct, it can. It also works on the 5155 'PortablePC', and is the only offical way to put a hard disk on that machine. I guess it was a kind of early 'docking station' :-) AFAIK it _doesn't_ work on the 5170 PC/At, even if you only want to put 8 bit cards in the expansion unit. Pity.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 2 18:08:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Apr 2, 3 03:08:44 pm Message-ID: > >But in the XT, one slot is different. > > Why? There is a 74LS245 buffer chip that buffers the data lines to the leftmost 7 slots and to other parts of the machine. Unfortunately, this chip doesn't have enough drvie cpaability to handle all 8 slots (well, not offiicaly). Most manufactueres would have put all 8 slots on the same side of the buffer and trusted to luck. IBM didn't -- slot 8 is on the 'wrong' side of the buffer. A card in slot 8 must pull pin B8 low during a read cycle, to control said buffer chip. The IBM Async card can do this (if you put a jumper on the 2 pin header on the card). A few other cards can too (the Microsoft Bus Mouse card is one I think). And I've made cards that can do this. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 2 18:10:13 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: XT slot differences (was: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 2, 3 12:23:50 pm Message-ID: > On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, chris wrote: > > >But in the XT, one slot is different. > > > > Why? > > The slot closest to the power supply (and to the processor) does not have > the same buffering as the other slots. > > Tony might know the REAL reason. I have heard various speculations: I have never worked for IBM, and I certainly didn't design the XT (what an insult!). So I don't know the REAL reason. But it looks like an electrical loading issue pure and simple... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 2 18:11:37 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: paper tape questions In-Reply-To: from "akb+lists.cctech@imap1.mirror.to" at Apr 2, 3 04:10:10 pm Message-ID: > Hi-- > > I was wondering, is all blank papertape media interchangeable? > I know that it can be made of paper or mylar, > and that it comes fanfolded and on spools, > but are there variations that would block interoperability, > like varying widths? There are 3 standard widths.. 11/16", used for 5 level tape, often buadot or murray coded 7/8", used for 6 level, 7 level and 6 level 'typesetter' tape 1", sued for 8 level tape. The last one is the common one used on computers. The middle one is particularly difficult to find. Most punches and readers not part of teleprinters can handle all 3 widths, possibly with adjustable guides. Punching typesetter tape needs a special punching head (the feed hole is offset in the direction of tape movement), and sometimes a special read head too. > > In particular, I'm wondering if any one can tell me if the > tape offered up on ebay at > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2519056219&category=11805 > > will work in my friden flex-o-writer sps... My Flexowriter uses 1" tape, if that's any help. -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 2 18:39:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: XT slot differences (was: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > The slot closest to the power supply (and to the processor) does not have > > the same buffering as the other slots. > > Tony might know the REAL reason. I have heard various speculations: On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > I have never worked for IBM, and I certainly didn't design the XT (what > an insult!). So I don't know the REAL reason. Wow! I sure didn't intend to imply THAT! But I'll remember it in case I ever need to flame somebody! > But it looks like an electrical loading issue pure and simple... Thank you. That is EXACTLY what I wanted to know. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 2 18:45:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current > > loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port is a very useful thing to have... Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were? However, the IBM "Async" card could ALSO do current loop, which most of the after market cards could NOT. > One of the most stupid things IBM ever did was in the 5155 PortablePC. It has my nomination for the silliest design. (particularly when compared with the comparable Compaq machine which has all slots usable) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From kth at srv.net Wed Apr 2 19:08:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 References: Message-ID: <3E8B8FF6.4050200@srv.net> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >>>incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current >>>loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to >>> >>> > >On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > >>Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port is a very useful thing to have... >> >> > >Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other >companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for >serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX >functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were? > floppy, game port > >However, the IBM "Async" card could ALSO do current loop, which most of >the after market cards could NOT. > > > > >>One of the most stupid things IBM ever did was in the 5155 PortablePC. >> >> > >It has my nomination for the silliest design. (particularly when compared >with the comparable Compaq machine which has all slots usable) > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 2 19:16:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Multiple console sessions with DEC hardware (was Re: Qbus artifact score!) In-Reply-To: <027f01c2f971$96f51520$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <20030403011355.86090.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Stuart Johnson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 2:31 PM > Subject: Qbus artifact score! > > > > >If only there was a> DEC terminal with triple-session capability. > >Should be a bunch of fun getting this guy running! > > > > -ethan > > > > Ethan, > > Try a VT525, it has FOUR sessions using cabling (does not require ssu or > multisessions). Cool. I'll keep my eyes out for one (but my newest DEC terminals are VT220s and VT240s - I had some VT320s once, but I sold them before I got home from the rescue). > Another way to do this is > with one VT-something terminal hooked to a DECserver 200 or 300 and use > reverse-LAT; I have a DECserver 200, but have never even applied power to it. It came with a small crate of VAXstation 2000s (aquired after a friend died). I don't currently have anything set up to serve MOP, so I think I'd like to keep searching for a DECserver 300 that, hopefully, will load via BOOTP/TFTP. In any case, will a DECserver retain the contents of each session that I could refresh when switching from port to port? > You can also connect a VT525 to a KVM switch and use one keyboard and > mouse to control PC's, Alpha's, etc. Right. I have a mechanical KVM switch and a 2-port electronic KVM switch ($15 at the Hamvention). Thanks for the suggestions, -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 2 19:27:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Multifunction (was: Re: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: <3E8B8FF6.4050200@srv.net> Message-ID: > >Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other > >companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for > >serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX > >functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were? On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > floppy, game port floppy was quite rare on multifunction cards (until quite a bit later) game port was fairly common. But on a lot of "multifunction" cards (such as AST, Quadram, etc.), options 5 and 6 were: print spooling software, and ramdisk software! From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 2 19:31:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: keyboard translator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030403012902.88028.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: Someone else asked: > > We are trying to connect a Vax 3850 using a LK201 keyboard and > > a ?mouse to ps2 based KVM switch. Do you know of any products[?] > > All I can tell you is that the LK201 interface uses different voltage > levels to the PS/2 interface... and a totally different protocol... > > A translator between them is not going to be totally trivial therefore. > It would certainly need a microcontroller at each end. Sounds similar to hooking classic SPARC gear to a KVM. For _that_, Sun sells one of the cheaper units (surprise, surprise), but it is, IIRC, $75. With sufficient magic, one microcontroller ought to be able to convert PS/2 to LK201 protocol. The Atmel 90S2313 has an internal serial port that should have no problem speaking to either the DEC keyboard or the DEC mouse and has plenty of lines left over (and some sample code on the 'net to speak PS/2-ees, if I'm not mistaken) to emulate a PS/2 keyboard or mouse. Given timing issues and that Atmel chips are $3 each, if I were rolling my own, I'd seriously consider a dedicated microcontroller for each device even though that would double the hardware cost (an expense I think would be justified by simpler software design and more robust operation). With sufficient horsepower, or a CPU with two hardware serial ports, it might be feasible to do a two-fer. I do not know of any off-the-shelf devices that can do this. -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 2 19:47:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030402205040.402ffb00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:42 PM 4/2/03 -0800, Grumpy Ol' Fred wrote: >> > incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current >> > loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to > >On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: >> Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port is a very useful thing to have... > >Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other >companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for >serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX >functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were? Ramdisk and print buffer. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 2 19:48:45 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: <3E8B8FF6.4050200@srv.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030402205128.4f8f46f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:35 PM 4/2/03 -0700, you wrote: >Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >>>>incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current >>>>loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to >>>> >>>> >> >>On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: >> >> >>>Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port is a very useful thing to have... >>> >>> >> >>Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other >>companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for >>serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX >>functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were? >> >floppy, game port BEEP! Nope. Joe From patrick at evocative.com Wed Apr 2 20:33:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Do you recognize these boards? Message-ID: Does anyone recognize these three boards? I haven't had much luck with Google... http://www.rigneyfamily.com/patrick/ Warning: LARGE graphics... best avoided if you are on a slow connection. --Patrick From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Apr 2 20:41:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Two ESDI drives available In-Reply-To: References: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B85A@308server.308dole.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030402211714.00a43ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Tony, > and it's not trivial to crimp onto the cable without damage When I made something like that up, I plugged an already assembled female into the male, so that when I pressed the male onto the cable, the force was applied to the end of the female sticking out past the shroud around the pins of the male connector, transferring that force to the inside base of the male, not on the edges of it's shroud where the plastic is thin, nor onto it's pins. Another way to do it without needing the die you said you had gotten. I also use a vise since I don't have a special crimp tool either. I put something like cardboard over the vise jaws to protect the IDC connectors which I'm pressing on from being marred. For a cable already made up, IIRC cables like these, 34 pin with male IDC on one end, and female IDC on the other end came with floppy controller controlled tape backup drives, to add a third device ( the tape drive ) to a floppy cable already being used by both an A: and B: floppy drive. > The male header plug is not trivial to get (but it does exist) 3M and AMP might make these. We have an electronics supply here that will order "samples" for you if you only need one or two pieces. We actually wanted to purchase them, but since ordering the samples eliminated the paperwork tasks for them ( all done in one phone call ), they wanted to supply them as samples. Best Regards At 12:24 AM 4/3/03 +0100, you wrote: > > Now, on to the next question. I need a 34 conductor flat cable with > male IDC > > on one end and socket on the other. Anyone know of a good source for > these? > >Do you mean you need a cable that could be used as an extension for a >3.5" floppy drive? > >The male header plug is not trivial to get (but it does exist), and it's not >trivial to crimp onto the cable without damage. I remember last time I >had to do one, I bought the die for one of the 'propper' crimp tools (the >die alone was not too expensive) and used that to support the plug. > >Then, when you've got the bits, just crimp them onto a bit of cable in >the bench vice... > >-tony From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Wed Apr 2 20:52:01 2003 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: AST Multifunction card manual References: <20030402180001.58530.23299.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000f01c2f98b$a3362440$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> I have a photo copy of the AST I/O Plus II card user's manual. It is a Serial Parallel, Clock and Game card. It is about 50 pages long and has schematics. I will mail it to any one who needs it. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Apr 2 20:54:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Free Stuff ??? Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030402214910.00a45080@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Free Stuff ??? page info says date last modified ... Tuesday, May 04, 1999 9:32:15 PM GMT But it's currently indexed in Google, so who know? http://www.monmouth.com/~wstreett/equip.html Best Regards From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Apr 2 21:12:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030402215649.00a44c60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > how many people remember what the other two functions were? Game ( Joystick ) Port ? In seeing if I could remember what they were, I came across a web site called ... "die Jumper Site - The Jumper Site" with jumper settings on A LOT of vintage hardware. In fact, it looks like scans of the MicroHouse Technical Reference Library, so it might not last. Samples of just the 8 bit ISA I/O cards Text format at ... http://www.totalhardware.de/i/iio8_t.htm Pictures format at ... http://www.totalhardware.de/i/iio8_i.htm Pictures and Text format at ... http://www.totalhardware.de/i/iio8_1.htm Main Page at ... http://www.totalhardware.de/ Best Regards At 04:42 PM 4/2/03 -0800, you wrote: > > > incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current > > > loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to > >On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port is a very useful thing to have... > >Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other >companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for >serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX >functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were? > >However, the IBM "Async" card could ALSO do current loop, which most of >the after market cards could NOT. > > > > One of the most stupid things IBM ever did was in the 5155 PortablePC. > >It has my nomination for the silliest design. (particularly when compared >with the comparable Compaq machine which has all slots usable) > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Apr 2 21:32:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Multiple console sessions with DEC hardware (was Re: Qbus artifact score!) References: <20030403011355.86090.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02fa01c2f991$30740840$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 7:13 PM Subject: Multiple console sessions with DEC hardware (was Re: Qbus artifact score!) > --- Stuart Johnson wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ethan Dicks" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 2:31 PM > > Subject: Qbus artifact score! > > > > > > > > >If only there was a> DEC terminal with triple-session capability. > > >Should be a bunch of fun getting this guy running! > > > > > > -ethan > > > > > > > Ethan, > > > > Try a VT525, it has FOUR sessions using cabling (does not require ssu or > > multisessions). > > Cool. I'll keep my eyes out for one (but my newest DEC terminals are > VT220s and VT240s - I had some VT320s once, but I sold them before I > got home from the rescue). > > > Another way to do this is > > with one VT-something terminal hooked to a DECserver 200 or 300 and use > > reverse-LAT; > > I have a DECserver 200, but have never even applied power to it. It > came with a small crate of VAXstation 2000s (aquired after a friend > died). I don't currently have anything set up to serve MOP, so I > think I'd like to keep searching for a DECserver 300 that, hopefully, > will load via BOOTP/TFTP. > > In any case, will a DECserver retain the contents of each session that > I could refresh when switching from port to port? > > > You can also connect a VT525 to a KVM switch and use one keyboard and > > mouse to control PC's, Alpha's, etc. > > Right. I have a mechanical KVM switch and a 2-port electronic KVM > switch ($15 at the Hamvention). > > Thanks for the suggestions, > > -ethan Ethan, Check eBay, there currently is an auction for a vt525, see: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3409761014&category=1247 currently at $31, 3 days 22 hrs to go. I've seen several go by recently for $150, but I paid $57 (plus shipping) for mine back in December of last year Good hunting! Stuart Johnson. From jwstephens at cox.net Wed Apr 2 21:48:00 2003 From: jwstephens at cox.net (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Do you recognize these boards? References: Message-ID: <3E8BADE6.6F18798C@cox.net> Patrick Rigney wrote: > Does anyone recognize these three boards? I haven't had much luck with > Google... > > http://www.rigneyfamily.com/patrick/ > > Warning: LARGE graphics... best avoided if you are on a slow connection. > > --Patrick middle photo D***13 is an SMD controller, two 26 pin and a 60pin right? Top one smells like an ANSI of same time period, which had a 50 pin, and radials of the 26 or 30 some pin variety. no useful guess on host. no useful guess on bottom one at all, maybe it's std bus? but the gold edge connectors look too narrow for that. Jim From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 2 22:23:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Do you recognize these boards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030403042107.7733.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Rigney wrote: > Does anyone recognize these three boards? I haven't had much luck with > Google... > > http://www.rigneyfamily.com/patrick/ The first two remind me of boards I've been given out of PBXs. The one marked '8" HDC' has connectors consistent with SMD drive cables (60-pin, plus 2 x 26 pin), and there were plenty of them at 8 inches and up (10" for a Fuji Eagle, IIRC; plus many at 14") The CPU board seems to have a two serials and a wide parallel port. That looks like "75188" below the connector marked "P3", a standard RS-232 transciever chip. The others in that area are probably the rest of the line drivers. The 6821 is a "PIA" chip, with two 8-bit parallel ports and several handshaking lines. Common in 6502 and 6809 designs. We had one on our early COMBOARD (MC68000) products. Looks like 22 DRAMs? ECC? The name "PX62" suggests to me that they are from a PBX. Dunno what bus that is, but the layout and the silk-screen remind me of Japanese boards, FWIW. No idea what the third one is. -ethan From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Apr 2 22:47:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Do you recognize these boards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005a01c2f99b$bef37ab0$0181a8c0@k4jcw> The TMS9914 is a GPIB controller. So you've got a Z80, GPIB controller, 8 16 pin sockets that are likely 16k x 1 dynamic RAMs, 28 pin EPROM socket (likely a 27C256), a CTC (Counter Timer Chip), and the 8255 gives 24 bits of I/O. What it goes in, I have no idea, but I'd hazard a piece of test equipment, since GPIB is most commonly found there (note the word "commonly" for the pedants). --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Patrick Rigney > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 21:31 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Do you recognize these boards? > > > Does anyone recognize these three boards? I haven't had much > luck with > Google... > > http://www.rigneyfamily.com/patrick/ > > Warning: LARGE graphics... best avoided if you are on a slow > connection. > > --Patrick From anheier at owt.com Wed Apr 2 22:50:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Handheld Computer organizer available Message-ID: I have this cool little Psion Organizer II, model XP available. It's a 6800 processor powered handheld computer. I have the COM link cable and a 32K Datapak. It appears to be functional. It was made in the UK. Someone out there probably knows the history of this little device. Best offer, please send zip code for shipping costing and I prefer Paypal. Thanks Norm From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Apr 2 22:55:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:46 2005 Subject: Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030402234450.00a3e680@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Here's an interesting item for keeping those vintage floppy's in order? Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer I saw a web site where these were about $900.00 http://www.mbiusa.com/Bucket/test1.html and this one is only at $5.00 with only about 1 and a half days to go. Brian Industries Brikon 723 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2519413979 From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Apr 2 22:56:27 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030402234450.00a3e680@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Here's an interesting item for keeping those vintage floppy's in order? Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer I saw a web site where these were about $900.00 http://www.mbiusa.com/Bucket/test1.html and this one is only at $5.00 with only about 1 and a half days to go. Brian Industries Brikon 723 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2519413979 From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 2 23:00:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304011805.KAA22804@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > As I mentioned earlier, I have a Forth that runs standalone > on hard sectored. Since it is standalone, I've used it to > make exact copies of other disk. I've done things like changing > the interleaving to make about a 10X improvement in load > speeds for many programs. I always wondered, if it was so easy to change the sector interleave on disks to make them load faster, why didn't the original programmers/designers optimize the interleave in the first place? Things that make you go, "hmm". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From donm at cts.com Thu Apr 3 00:27:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > [Tony wrote:] > > Very odd... > > > > You might try checkking the index monostables on the hard sector > > controller (they only really do anything once per track, when the index > > hole between the sector holes comes round), but I can't see why it would > > then work for the first 4 cylinders. > > Well, as it turned out, the stepper motor on the drive was locking up. The > further towards the inner tracks it got, the more it struggled, and it > wasn't close to correctly centering over any track beyond the first few. You might want to check and/or clean the guide rails for the head assembly to assure that they slide with little effort, if you have not done so already. I have seen similar problems a number of times as a result of 'sticky' rails. - don > I'll mess with that later. I was able to replace the drive with a spare, > and I'm again up and running. I produced several good test boot disks, BUT, > I don't know how well that new drive is aligned, it's straight off the shelf > from the As-Is room at Wierd Stuff. Rotation speed is spot-on according to > the internal diag, but I don't have a 5.25" alignment disk to check it > otherwise. Anyone who receives a boot disk from me is, therefore, going to > be my "canary in the mine." :-) > > Next task... get the soft-sectored controller running. Unfortunately I have > no docs for this whatsoever, not even a schematic. I understand that it > requires MTR-90, and possibly a certain HDOS software distribution as well. > Does anyone know? > > Patrick From drido at optushome.com.au Thu Apr 3 00:49:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Do you recognize these boards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030403164728.010c3b04@mail.optushome.com.au> At 06:30 PM 4/2/03 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone recognize these three boards? I haven't had much luck with >Google... > >http://www.rigneyfamily.com/patrick/ > >Warning: LARGE graphics... best avoided if you are on a slow connection. > >--Patrick The top 2 boards with the 100 pin edges connectors look like they are from and NEC PABX... The size, edge connectors, and layout/screen printing look like boards I've removed from NEC PABXs in the past. Assuming the 2nd board is an SMD HDD controller as others have mentioned perhaps it was a PABX with voicemail? From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Apr 3 01:42:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001a01c2f9b4$275449a0$5838cd18@D73KSM11> > Next task... get the soft-sectored controller running. > Unfortunately I have no docs for this whatsoever, not even a > schematic. I understand that it requires MTR-90, and > possibly a certain HDOS software distribution as well. Does > anyone know? > > Patrick > MTR-90 is in the ROM on the 89's CPU board. My MTR-90 manual indicates that DIP switch SW501, located on the lower right of the CPU logic circuit board (consisting of eight jumpers, 0-7) should be set as follows: Jumpers 0 and 1 (port 07CH [174Q]) 00 Hard Sectored 5.25 disk 01 H/Z-47 10 H/Z-67 hard disk/floppy 11 No device Jumpers 2 and 3 (port 078H [170Q]) 00 Soft sectored 5.25 disk 01 H/Z-47 10 H/Z-67 Winchester disk/floppy 11 No device Jumper 4 0 Primary boot from 07CH 1 Primary boot from 078H It certainly seems as if you can run both controllers in one machine. I have the manual for the Z-89-37 double-density disk controller, which is the one I believe you need. I also have manuals for the H-17-1 (48 TPI) and H-17-5 (96 TPI) FDDs. They're all short so let me know what you need. The controller manual says that you need either HDOS version 2.0 (with update HOS-5-UP) or CP/M version 2.2.03 or higher. -W From Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk Thu Apr 3 03:28:00 2003 From: Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Victor Keyboard Identification Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF390@OHM1003A> John, Whereabouts are you in the UK? I would be interested in that Sirius 1, and could collect it if you're anywhere near Manchester. Would you be interested in a spare Epson HX20 as a swap? paul -----Original Message----- From: John Honniball [mailto:coredump@gifford.co.uk] Sent: 02 April 2003 20:02 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Victor Keyboard Identification Thomas Martin wrote: > You can also see them labeled as Sirius machines from > time to time. Yes, I'd have called it a Sirius keyboard! Mine are darker in colour, though; dark grey instead of beige. I have a spare Sirius I, if anyone in the UK would like one -- as designed by Chuck Peddle. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com Thu Apr 3 04:05:01 2003 From: adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Victor Keyboard Identification Message-ID: Damn! I too would be interested in it :( If anyone else in the UK has a spare Sirius 1 kicking about (working or dead, although the former is preferred, obviously), please get in touch. I'm willing to pay for transport costs, plus beer tokens as appropriate. Cheers, Ade. > -----Original Message----- > From: Hills, Paul [mailto:Paul.Hills@siemens.co.uk] > Sent: 03 April 2003 10:26 am > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Victor Keyboard Identification > > > John, > > Whereabouts are you in the UK? I would be interested in that > Sirius 1, and > could collect it if you're anywhere near Manchester. Would > you be interested > in a spare Epson HX20 as a swap? > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Honniball [mailto:coredump@gifford.co.uk] > Sent: 02 April 2003 20:02 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Victor Keyboard Identification > > > Thomas Martin wrote: > > You can also see them labeled as Sirius machines from > > time to time. > > Yes, I'd have called it a Sirius keyboard! Mine are darker in colour, > though; dark grey instead of beige. I have a spare Sirius I, > if anyone > in the UK would like one -- as designed by Chuck Peddle. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk From CCTalk at catcorner.org Thu Apr 3 06:06:00 2003 From: CCTalk at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Two ESDI drives available Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B85C@308server.308dole.com> > For a cable already made up, IIRC cables like these, 34 pin > with male IDC on one end, and female IDC on the other end > came with floppy controller controlled tape backup drives, to add > a third device ( the tape drive ) to a floppy cable already being > used by both an A: and B: floppy drive. I've got a dozen of these cables. The problem is that they have a pin pulled that I think is used in standard DS/DD floppy operation, but not in tape operation. I tried several anyway and it would not work. Looking carfeully, most floppy cables use one of the ground pins as a key. I know that if I use a straight direct cable it works fine. With one of these cables it does not. I am not using these for the ESDI drives, but for my TRS-80 Model 4. The internal drives do not work, the metal cage is not deep enough for "standard" 5.25" floppies, and for cosmetic reasons I want to leave the old drives in place. So I need to put two dirves in an external case. However, Having something like this hard wired in place makes handling difficult. I tried to use a card edge connector from the bottom of the unit, but it then doesn't sense the drives. I'll just keep looking and trying differnet cables. I know Digikey has them, but at $20 each it would be more than I paid for the model 4. Thanks, Kelly From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 3 08:39:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030402234450.00a3e680@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030403093951.0f078b46@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:52 PM 4/2/03 -0500, you wrote: >Here's an interesting item for keeping those vintage floppy's in order? > >Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer They are interesting. I have one and I've bid on this one. Anybody have docs for the 727 multiplexer? > > > >I saw a web site where these were about $900.00 Typical Re-seller wishfull thinking!!! These sell on E-bay for about $20. Note that this one has a $15 "handling fee" in addition to the selling price and shipping. Again typical of re-sellers. They never miss a chance to boost their profits! Joe From jim at smithy.com Thu Apr 3 08:49:00 2003 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: SMD disk drive Message-ID: <1049380551.29415.2.camel@server.smithy.com> I'm looking for an 8" SMD disk drive. The only ones I've seen were made by NEC - and I can't seem to find any. What other companies made these kind of drives? Any suggestions on where I should look or what (other) kinds of equipment these were used in? (besides Wang minicomputers) -- Jim Donoghue Smithy Co. (734) 913-6700 From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Apr 3 08:56:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: keyboard translator In-Reply-To: <20030403012902.88028.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Sounds similar to hooking classic SPARC gear to a KVM. For _that_, > Sun sells one of the cheaper units (surprise, surprise), but it is, > IIRC, $75. > I think you can get one from Raritan cheaper than that. g. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 3 09:12:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030403093951.0f078b46@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030403150958.51395.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > >I saw a web site where these were about $900.00 > > Typical Re-seller wishfull thinking!!! These sell on E-bay for about > $20. Typical indeed. OTOH, when researching other devices of similar vintage, plotters and protocol analyzers, to name some recent targets, they are available from instrument companies for $1000-$2000 every day of the week, and they will be *glad* to sell you one for that, but over on eBay, it's more like $50-$60 every week. The brick-and-mortar catalog-oriented resellers are basing their prices on a stiff percentage of the new price, and living off of "gotta have a replacement now" commercial traffic. eBay resellers are limited to what the traffic will bear over the course of a week, regardless of individual customer demand. > Note that this one has a $15 "handling fee" in addition to the > selling price and shipping. Again typical of re-sellers. They never miss > a chance to boost their profits! I noticed that. I tend to shy away from those guys, no matter what the deal seems to be - if they are pulling that, how do I know that the "untested" condition doesn't really mean "tested, guaranteed broken"? -ethan From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Apr 3 09:13:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Do you recognize these boards? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Does anyone recognize these three boards? I haven't had much luck with > Google... > > http://www.rigneyfamily.com/patrick/ The top two boards remind of somewhat of Multibus boards in early SGI systems, though those two boards are clearly not Multibus. I'd imagine the larger header connector on the processor board is the memory bus, which is similar to what you see in older SGI and VAX systems. (Can anyone verify if the 6821/6822 are some sort of bus interface chips?) My best guess would be that they are from some sort of 68k workstation or system, but I have no idea which. The date codes of the chips/boards might help you narrow it down some. The bottom board reminds me of boards I've seen from Tek and HP rack-mount test gear. It looks like the EPROM and DRAM have been 'borrowed' from the board though. -Toth From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 3 09:18:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: keyboard translator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030403151206.35419.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gene Buckle wrote: > > Sounds similar to hooking classic SPARC gear to a KVM. For _that_, > > Sun sells one of the cheaper units (surprise, surprise), but it is, > > IIRC, $75. > > > I think you can get one from Raritan cheaper than that. We had a Raritan switch at a former employer (about 100 yards from where I'm sitting now ;-)... a nice one - 4x32 (and they bought an expansion box after I was gone) - about $10K with cables. At the time (c. 1999), the Raritan converter was $150. We bought a Sun box to stick my SPARC2 (that I later sold them) on the KVM as our first "non-NT" host in the server room. Perhaps Raritan has a new model or has lowered the price on their old model, but at one time, Sun had the cheapest solution. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 3 09:21:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: SMD disk drive In-Reply-To: <1049380551.29415.2.camel@server.smithy.com> Message-ID: <20030403151915.68168.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Donoghue wrote: > I'm looking for an 8" SMD disk drive. The only ones I've seen were made > by NEC - and I can't seem to find any. What other companies made these > kind of drives? Fujitsu made lots of SMD drives. I have several. They are not so small. I have 14" and 10" units, ranging from 160MB to 400MB. Coming from the DEC world, when SMD was in fashion there, 8" drives were not, especially since the racks would hold 14" drives. If you were going to spend the $$$, you might as well get some capacity for the effort. There are also some higher-capacity 5.25" SMD drives, but IIRC, they use a different clock frequency and are not always compatible with older controllers. I remember a 600MB model selling for $600 in a day when PeeCee storage was several times that (like $5-$10/meg). The sellers were careful to warn people that these would *not* plug into an ISA machine without an expensive and rare controller. I did not buy one. :-) -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 3 09:43:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Do you recognize these boards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030403154008.42006.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > Does anyone recognize these three boards? > > > > http://www.rigneyfamily.com/patrick/ > > I'd imagine the larger header connector on the processor board is the > memory bus... Probably not with all those traces going to the 6821 chips. > ...which is similar to what you see in older SGI and VAX systems. That much is true. DEC (don't know about SGI) went to "PMI" - Private Memory Interconnect - to get around problems with address bus width and memory speeds with processors above the MicroVAX-I (the Qbus is limited to 22 address bits and about 3MB/sec transfer rate). > (Can anyone verify if the 6821/6822 are some sort of bus interface > chips?) They are not. The 6821 is a common "Parallel Interface Adapter". It has two 8-bit parallel ports, several handshaking lines and a couple of internal timers. It is functionally equivalent to the MOS 6520, and is somewhat ancestral to chips like the 6522 and 6526. They are commonly used in 1970s and 1980s gear to strobe keyboard matrices, to drive external parallel devices, and to control LED and LCD displays (there's a 6520 on the display board on a Rockwell AIM-65, for example - I've put a 6821 in mine for testing). -ethan From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Apr 3 09:46:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer Message-ID: <03040393.27829@webbox.com> I am with you guys, anyone who says untested may be selling a cabinet that has nothing inside and there is no protection against that. best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: Ethan Dicks >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 4/3/03 7:09:58 AM > --- Joe wrote: >> >I saw a web site where these were about $900.00 >> >> Typical Re-seller wishfull thinking!!! These sell on E-bay for about >> $20. > >Typical indeed. OTOH, when researching other devices of similar vintage, >plotters and protocol analyzers, to name some recent targets, they are >available from instrument companies for $1000-$2000 every day of the >week, and they will be *glad* to sell you one for that, but over on eBay, >it's more like $50-$60 every week. > >The brick-and-mortar catalog-oriented resellers are basing their prices >on a stiff percentage of the new price, and living off of "gotta have >a replacement now" commercial traffic. eBay resellers are limited to >what the traffic will bear over the course of a week, regardless of >individual customer demand. > >> Note that this one has a $15 "handling fee" in addition to the >> selling price and shipping. Again typical of re-sellers. They never miss >> a chance to boost their profits! > >I noticed that. I tend to shy away from those guys, no matter what >the deal seems to be - if they are pulling that, how do I know that >the "untested" condition doesn't really mean "tested, guaranteed >broken"? > >-ethan From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Apr 3 09:46:14 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette References: Message-ID: <3E8C5605.3020904@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I always wondered, if it was so easy to change the sector interleave on > disks to make them load faster, why didn't the original > programmers/designers optimize the interleave in the first place? It depends on your disk hardware and the speed of your computer. 1) Computers got faster 2) Disk i/o got dma rather than poiled i/o. From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Apr 3 09:53:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: keyboard translator In-Reply-To: <20030403151206.35419.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > > IIRC, $75. > > > > > I think you can get one from Raritan cheaper than that. > > We had a Raritan switch at a former employer (about 100 yards from > where I'm sitting now ;-)... a nice one - 4x32 (and they bought an > expansion box after I was gone) - about $10K with cables. At the > time (c. 1999), the Raritan converter was $150. We bought a Sun > box to stick my SPARC2 (that I later sold them) on the KVM as our > first "non-NT" host in the server room. > > Perhaps Raritan has a new model or has lowered the price on their > old model, but at one time, Sun had the cheapest solution. Ahh, ok. Good to know I guess. :) g. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Apr 3 09:53:17 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030403093951.0f078b46@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030403093951.0f078b46@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200304030750530361.140A0A7B@192.168.42.129> Hi, gang, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 03-Apr-03 at 09:39 Joe wrote: >At 11:52 PM 4/2/03 -0500, you wrote: >>Here's an interesting item for keeping those vintage floppy's in order? >> >>Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer > > > They are interesting. I have one and I've bid on this one. Anybody >have docs for the 727 multiplexer? >> >> >> >>I saw a web site where these were about $900.00 > > Typical Re-seller wishfull thinking!!! These sell on E-bay for about >$20. Note that this one has a $15 "handling fee" in addition to the >selling price and shipping. Again typical of re-sellers. They never miss a >chance to boost their profits! Fortunately, not all resellers are that way. The folks I bought my SCSI analyzer from, Prism Electronics, were just the opposite. Not only were they utterly honest about the deal, they actually refunded $50 of my purchase price when it turned out that the unit they were sending me didn't have the emulator board installed as they thought it did. FWIW: I have a Lynx floppy drive tester, barely used and still in its pouch, plus alignment media. I remember seeing those things in the Specialized Products tool catalog for over a grand, and I think I paid all of $25 for this one. I'm happy. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Apr 3 09:57:01 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: SMD disk drive In-Reply-To: <1049380551.29415.2.camel@server.smithy.com> References: <1049380551.29415.2.camel@server.smithy.com> Message-ID: <200304030754540382.140DB7F4@192.168.42.129> Hey, Jim, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 03-Apr-03 at 09:35 Jim Donoghue wrote: >I'm looking for an 8" SMD disk drive. The only ones I've seen were made >by NEC - and I can't seem to find any. What other companies made these >kind of drives? Any suggestions on where I should look or what (other) >kinds of equipment these were used in? (besides Wang minicomputers) Well, lesseee.... Those were also made by Fujitsu, Control Data, and (I recall) Shugart and Century Data. Of those, Fujitsu is the most common in the surplus arena. They were often used in high-end engineering workstations, such as those done by Tektronix, HP, and others. Come to think of it, a buddy of mine has a bunch of SMD drives in just that form factor, and I think he's looking to get rid of stuff. E-mail me a private note with details of what you're looking for in terms of capacity, and I will forward it to him. Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Apr 3 10:13:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: SMD disk drive In-Reply-To: <1049380551.29415.2.camel@server.smithy.com>; from jim@smithy.com on Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 16:35:38 %z References: <1049380551.29415.2.camel@server.smithy.com> Message-ID: <20030403153656.GE1312@krumm> On 2003.04.03 16:35 Jim Donoghue wrote: > I'm looking for an 8" SMD disk drive. The only ones I've seen were > made by NEC - and I can't seem to find any. What other companies made > these kind of drives? Fujitsu made a series of 8" SMD drives in the range from some MB to around 1 GB. Once uppon a time I we had a Sequent Symetry S27 at the Unix-AG with three Fujitsu M22??K 8" drives. They had 600 to 700 MB. The former owner of the machine instructed me to reformat the drives at least once a year, as they loose the format information leeding to lost data. A friend has some other Fujitsu drives from that series. He reported that this drives are quite unreliable. Seagate made some 8" SMD drives. The quick specs where on ftp://ftp.seagate.com/techsuppt/ when I looked at them last time. Seagate made 5,25" SMD drives too. The one I have is ether a st41097j or st41201j, it has 1 GB and I can't use it as I have no docs. (Power connector pinout, DIP switch description, ...) Very, very sad. This would be a very nice disk for one of my VAXen or PDP-11s. I own a Hitachi DK514S also. 360 MB, 5,25" FH, SMD. So maybe Hitachi made 8" models too. On the other side: What is wrong with NEC? I have some 1GB 9" NEC SMD drives. Very solid and reliable. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 3 10:16:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: SMD disk drive In-Reply-To: <1049380551.29415.2.camel@server.smithy.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030403111819.0f37ded2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found some in some kind of telephone equipment a couple of years ago. I think they were either NEC or Fujitsu but it's been a while. Joe At 09:35 AM 4/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >I'm looking for an 8" SMD disk drive. The only ones I've seen were made >by NEC - and I can't seem to find any. What other companies made these >kind of drives? Any suggestions on where I should look or what (other) >kinds of equipment these were used in? (besides Wang minicomputers) > >-- >Jim Donoghue >Smithy Co. >(734) 913-6700 From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 3 10:25:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: OT: [CCTALK] Re: OT? FW: (was: (Re:) Fwd: [CCTECH] RE: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP] (fwd) +++ATH0 [Forward] FSOT ((Re:)) IANAL(Was: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP])) In-Reply-To: <5511499265.20030402171937@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: [TRS-80] Fw: Ed Juge, RIP] (fwd) > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > This may be of interest....unfortunately. > > > > > > Yeah -- as an example of how NOT to write a message subject. > > > > Hey, don't shoot the messenger > > BTW, just to clarify, my comment *was* an attempt at humor. :-) The subject header at this point looks like a Lisp program (or some TRS-80 lover's Geek Code). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Apr 3 10:43:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030403093951.0f078b46@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030402234450.00a3e680@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030403112651.00a4d230@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Joe, > These sell on E-bay for about $20. Note that this one has a $15 "handling fee" > in addition to the selling price and shipping. That seller has a 100% positive feedback rating. That $15.00 handling fee might very well be partly or mostly consumed just covering the costs of the materials used to package it. It is not an extremely small item. If they usually only sell for $20, and they had to eat $15.00 in expenses just to package it, the next time they had one, they might not even offer it for sale. They might just send it straight to the scrap shredder instead. At 09:39 AM 4/3/03 +0000, you wrote: >At 11:52 PM 4/2/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Here's an interesting item for keeping those vintage floppy's in order? > > > >Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer > > > They are interesting. I have one and I've bid on this one. Anybody > have docs for the 727 multiplexer? > > > > > > > >I saw a web site where these were about $900.00 > > Typical Re-seller wishfull thinking!!! These sell on E-bay for about > $20. Note that this one has a $15 "handling fee" in addition to the > selling price and shipping. Again typical of re-sellers. They never miss > a chance to boost their profits! > > Joe From jim at smithy.com Thu Apr 3 10:47:00 2003 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: SMD disk drive In-Reply-To: <20030403153656.GE1312@krumm> References: <1049380551.29415.2.camel@server.smithy.com> <20030403153656.GE1312@krumm> Message-ID: <1049387638.29597.14.camel@server.smithy.com> On Thu, 2003-04-03 at 10:36, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > On the other side: What is wrong with NEC? I have some 1GB 9" NEC SMD > drives. Very solid and reliable. > -- > Nothing wrong with them. I just can't seem to find them anymore, and wanted to make a 'list' of other things to look for... -- Jim Donoghue Smithy Co. (734) 913-6700 From patrick at evocative.com Thu Apr 3 11:33:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <001a01c2f9b4$275449a0$5838cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: > MTR-90 is in the ROM on the 89's CPU board. My MTR-90 manual indicates Wayne, oh yeah, that I know. But there seem to be several revisions at work. I have two (currently dead) '89s that both have part number 444-62 at U518, which I understand from another enthusiast is MTR-89, and will not support the H-37 controller (or at least, it will not boot from it). My working machine, however, has 444-142, which is apparently MTR-90 and OK for that controller. I've also been warned by this person that I can burn my own copies of 444-142 for those other machines, but I have to watch the voltage settings (jumpers) for the EPROM socket *very* carefully. > They're all short so let me know what > you need. Thanks for the jumper positions, that's a huge help. I'll contact you off-list regarding the docs. A further question if you know: the H-17 seems to require the right-most "slot" on the CPU board (different signals from the other two). The serial card is in the middle slot, so I assume the H-37 can go into the left slot? Also, my H-37 card has a ribbon cable coming off at "P5" on the board and terminating in a DIP header, which I assume connects to the CPU board, but where, and does something else get pulled to make room for it (like the 64K memory expansion hack)? > The controller manual says that you need either HDOS version > 2.0 (with update HOS-5-UP) or CP/M version 2.2.03 or higher. I have HDOS 2.0, but I'll have to scrounge to see if I have that update. Thanks (very much) to Don Maslin, I have a CP/M, will need to check the version. Thanks for the assist! Patrick From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 3 12:56:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: DEC keyboard/mouse protocol Message-ID: <20030403185340.5023.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Re: recent discussions Found this in section 14.38 of the VMS FAQ: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_016.html The protocol definition for the old DIGITAL keyboard and mouse interfaces is buried at the back of the QDSS section in the old VAXstation II manual, specifically, in the back of the VCB02 Video Subsystem Technical Manual (EK-104AA-TM). The keyboard wiring and protocol is in appendix B, and occupies circa 44 pages. The mouse is in appendix C, circa 12 pages. ... in case anyone wants to tackle a protocol converter. -ethan From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Apr 3 14:06:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Cool calculator Message-ID: <021201c2fa1c$1dbcb590$190bdd40@oemcomputer> I picked up a Compucorp 324G Scientist calculator/micro computer at a thrift today for $8.08. Seems to work great. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 3 15:06:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: XT slot differences (was: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 2, 3 04:37:00 pm Message-ID: > > I have never worked for IBM, and I certainly didn't design the XT (what > > an insult!). So I don't know the REAL reason. > > Wow! I sure didn't intend to imply THAT! Ooops. I forgot the :-) .... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 3 15:06:28 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 2, 3 04:42:45 pm Message-ID: > Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other > companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for > serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX > functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were? Originally, I think the extra 2 functions were _software_, not hardware on the board. Something like a print spooler and RAM disks to use all that memory. Later on, multifunction cards often included a games port, floppy controller, and sometimes even video (there was a very popular card in the UK that contained 2 serial ports, parallel port, joystick port, Hercules/CGA graphics, floppy controller and real time clock -- yes, on one full-length board). > > However, the IBM "Async" card could ALSO do current loop, which most of > the after market cards could NOT. That's one reason that I grab them if I see them... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 3 15:06:33 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Two ESDI drives available In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030402211714.00a43ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> from "Mail List" at Apr 2, 3 09:38:40 pm Message-ID: > Tony, > > > and it's not trivial to crimp onto the cable without damage > > When I made something like that up, I plugged an already > assembled female into the male, so that when I pressed Good tip. When I assemble those 'transition connectors' -- the ones that crimp onto the ribbon cable and then solder permanently to the PCB -- I stick the pins into one of those plugblock 'breadboards' so they don't get bent. It's actually the only use I've found for those breadboards! [...] > is thin, nor onto it's pins. Another way to do it without needing > the die you said you had gotten. I also use a vise since I don't In this case, the die was a fairly small amount of money (around \pounds 10.00), we needed to make up about 10 cables (this was for 'work', not home hacking...) and the die was available from the place the sold the connectors. Buying the die was the obvious thing to do. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 3 15:06:43 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <001a01c2f9b4$275449a0$5838cd18@D73KSM11> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Apr 2, 3 11:39:21 pm Message-ID: > MTR-90 is in the ROM on the 89's CPU board. My MTR-90 manual indicates [...] > It certainly seems as if you can run both controllers in one machine. You most certainly can. My Z90 (essentially the same machine -- AFAIK the differences are that it came fully assembled ('Z', not 'H'), and came with 64K RAM, has MTR-90, the hard sector controller and the double-density soft sector controller. The former is cabled to the single built-in drive, the latter to an external drive box. It will boot either HDOS or CP/M, and can use both types of disks -tony From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Apr 3 15:08:01 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: RSX-11M Plus [1,2] Directory Message-ID: My [1,2] directory has disappeared from my 11/23+ running RSX-11M Plus v4.1 Base Level 46!!! I have no idea how it happened, because the last time I powered up the system it was there! I know it was because the STARTUP.CMD file ran just as it should. I guess realistically it *was* something I did, although I'll never know just what it was... Anyway, the system now aborts it's startup procedure as soon as it can't find the STARTUP.CMD file and I'm able to log in as a privileged user from there. What I need to know is: 0) What exactly was in the [1,2] directory? Other than the STARTUP.CMD file, I don't know much about the directory's contents. 1) Could anyone give me an example of what the STARTUP.CMD file should contain? I'd like to make a new STARTUP.CMD file, but I have no clue what I should put in there. 2) Every time I try to issue a SET or SHOW command, I get the message: MCR -- Task active Why is that? 3) To prevent this from happening in the future, how do I back up files to floppy via the RX50? So have I totally messed up my RSX system? I hope not, because I don't have any distribution media. -- Owen Robertson From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 3 15:13:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Cool calculator In-Reply-To: <021201c2fa1c$1dbcb590$190bdd40@oemcomputer> from "Keys" at Apr 3, 3 02:03:36 pm Message-ID: > I picked up a Compucorp 324G Scientist calculator/micro computer at a thrift > today for $8.08. Seems to work great. I have one too, found at a radio rally (hamfest) for about the same amount of money. As you've realised by now, it's programmable, in that it will remember a seqeunce of keys, and when it gets to the end, it restarts from the beginning. There are no labels or jumps, though. The only waty to stop a program is either to record a start/stop key, or for an error to occur. The user manual gave a number of programs that would force an error after a given number of iterations, thus allowing the machine to calculate factorials, etc. The 2nd function key is strange. It's pressed _after_ the other key. So that, for example SIN and COS are on the same key. Press that key to calculate one of them (I forget which), then press 2nd function to get the other. Inside there are 4 circuit boards IIRC, stuffed with 40 pin custom chips (and some standard RAMs and PSU parts). It's one of the first programmable calculators -- the 322 (same machine with half the memoey) predates the HP65 by a few weeks, or so I was told. Oh yes, it _eats_ batteries. Officially you're supposed to use 4 D-size NiCds. It will run of alkaline cells, but it drains them in a few minutes (!). -tony From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Apr 3 15:34:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette Message-ID: <200304032130.NAA24751@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> MTR-90 is in the ROM on the 89's CPU board. My MTR-90 manual indicates > >[...] > >> It certainly seems as if you can run both controllers in one machine. > >You most certainly can. My Z90 (essentially the same machine -- AFAIK the >differences are that it came fully assembled ('Z', not 'H'), and came >with 64K RAM, has MTR-90, the hard sector controller and the >double-density soft sector controller. The former is cabled to the single >built-in drive, the latter to an external drive box. > >It will boot either HDOS or CP/M, and can use both types of disks > >-tony > The Z90 is built to be 64K a H89 isn't. As far as I recall, the H89 took more than a simple jumper or switch to make it CP/M compatable. Also, one should note that HDOS came in both hard and soft sectored. Dwight From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Apr 3 15:36:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Thanks - was Re: Cool calculator References: Message-ID: <02a201c2fa28$af540470$190bdd40@oemcomputer> Thanks for the tips, I also found some sample programs on the web. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: Re: Cool calculator > > I picked up a Compucorp 324G Scientist calculator/micro computer at a thrift > > today for $8.08. Seems to work great. > > I have one too, found at a radio rally (hamfest) for about the same > amount of money. > > As you've realised by now, it's programmable, in that it will remember a > seqeunce of keys, and when it gets to the end, it restarts from the > beginning. There are no labels or jumps, though. The only waty to stop a > program is either to record a start/stop key, or for an error to occur. > The user manual gave a number of programs that would force an error after > a given number of iterations, thus allowing the machine to calculate > factorials, etc. > > The 2nd function key is strange. It's pressed _after_ the other key. So > that, for example SIN and COS are on the same key. Press that key to > calculate one of them (I forget which), then press 2nd function to get > the other. > > Inside there are 4 circuit boards IIRC, stuffed with 40 pin custom chips > (and some standard RAMs and PSU parts). > > It's one of the first programmable calculators -- the 322 (same machine > with half the memoey) predates the HP65 by a few weeks, or so I was told. > > Oh yes, it _eats_ batteries. Officially you're supposed to use 4 D-size > NiCds. It will run of alkaline cells, but it drains them in a few minutes > (!). > > -tony From mross666 at hotmail.com Thu Apr 3 15:39:00 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Ping Pat Barron Message-ID: If Pat Barron is reading this, could he email me please? mross666@hotmail.com Thanks Mike _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Apr 3 15:45:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Thanks - was Re: Cool calculator References: <02a201c2fa28$af540470$190bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3E8CAB52.6080200@gifford.co.uk> Keys wrote: > From: "Tony Duell" >>Oh yes, it _eats_ batteries. Officially you're supposed to use 4 D-size >>NiCds. It will run of alkaline cells, but it drains them in a few minutes >>(!). Just a quick cautionary tale about batteries; we have a digital camera at the office, a cheap Logitek one. We used it all day, for five days and on the last day, the batteries burst inside the battery compartment. We suddenly had hot, caustic battery electrolyte all over the place! Now, it doesn't really matter with a modern, off-the-shelf gadget, but with an irreplaceable classic, it could be more serious. Do check that the batteries you use don't start to overheat! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Apr 3 15:48:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 References: Message-ID: <3E8CABDC.2090405@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > A card in slot 8 must pull pin B8 low during a read cycle, > to control said buffer chip. > > The IBM Async card can do this (if you put a jumper on the 2 pin header > on the card). A few other cards can too (the Microsoft Bus Mouse card is > one I think). Yes, the Microsoft Bus Mouse card has a jumper labelled "XT SLOT 8". -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 3 16:17:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: <3E8CABDC.2090405@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <20030403221509.15255.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Honniball wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > A card in slot 8 must pull pin B8 low during a read cycle, > > to control said buffer chip. > > > > The IBM Async card can do this... A few other cards can too... > > Yes, the Microsoft Bus Mouse card has a jumper labelled "XT SLOT 8". Interesting. Yep... there it is. I never noticed. Just an arbitrary jumper into the 40-pin microcontroller that does all the work. *There's* something to stuff into slot 8 of a Luggable XT! And if you get tired of it, you can convert the Bus Mouse to work as an Amiga Mouse (just needs a new cable or a pin swabber; the signals are 100% compatible). -ethan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 3 16:17:35 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Thanks - was Re: Cool calculator In-Reply-To: <3E8CAB52.6080200@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Apr 3, 3 10:44:50 pm Message-ID: > Just a quick cautionary tale about batteries; we have a digital camera > at the office, a cheap Logitek one. We used it all day, for five days > and on the last day, the batteries burst inside the battery compartment. Ouch!!! How did it managhe that? Drawing excessive current from the battery? > We suddenly had hot, caustic battery electrolyte all over the place! > Now, it doesn't really matter with a modern, off-the-shelf gadget, but > with an irreplaceable classic, it could be more serious. If I bought a device that caused the batteries to explode, not only would I want a full refund, I'd _never_ buy anything from that company again. Still I knew there was a reason why I use cameras that don't need batteries at all... > > Do check that the batteries you use don't start to overheat! The Compucorp 324 draws a high current (of the order of 1A I think), but it shouldn't be high enough to cause the batteries to explode... -tony From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Apr 3 16:23:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Thanks - was Re: Cool calculator References: Message-ID: <3E8CB430.7060703@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > Ouch!!! How did it managhe that? Drawing excessive current from the > battery? I presume so, yes. Or conceivably, trying to charge the alkaline cells from the USB power input? I didn't actually see it happen, but I did get to clean up the mess. > If I bought a device that caused the batteries to explode, not only would > I want a full refund, I'd _never_ buy anything from that company again. Quite agree! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Apr 3 16:54:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Sector interleave (was: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <3E8C5605.3020904@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > > I always wondered, if it was so easy to change the sector interleave on > > disks to make them load faster, why didn't the original > > programmers/designers optimize the interleave in the first place? On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > It depends on your disk hardware and the speed of your computer. > 1) Computers got faster 2) Disk i/o got dma rather than poiled > i/o. It also depends on what kind of processinbg is being done to it during loading. For example, dumping file contents into RAM can be done a lot faster than loading a document into a word-processor. The fastest interleave occurs if the system can handle the next sector immediately after the previous. In that case, the fastest sequence is plain sequential, and a track can be read in a single revolution. But when you add extra processing of the data during reading, (such as a word processor loading a document), you could end up with NOT being ready for the next sector in time, resulting in the read taking as many revolutions of the disk as there are sectors per track. Alternating sectors might reduce that to two revolutions (or skipping 2 sectors, etc.), but that can easily be twice as long as necessary for a task that did NOT need the extraneous processing. Most system software developers DO think that they have optimized it. But they have optimized it for the type of file access that they EXPECT you to be doing (usually whatever THEY do most). BTW, it can be done either by placing the physical sectors in various orders (such as 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8,10) OR can be done by a translation between logical sector and physical sector (physical sectors numbered 1,2,3,4, . . . , but data that doesn't finish in sector 1 continues in sector 3, etc.) From patrick at evocative.com Thu Apr 3 17:48:01 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304032130.NAA24751@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > The Z90 is built to be 64K a H89 isn't. As far > as I recall, the H89 took more than a simple jumper or > switch to make it CP/M compatable. > Also, one should note that HDOS came in both hard and soft sectored. > Dwight Dwight, I think you're right. Address decode is controlled by U516 and U517 on the CPU board... and those are PROMs of Heath's creation... close to unobtainium. I have several different versions of each of these PROMs, but I haven't yet figured out their contents and differences. Oh, and regarding my earlier comment about the MTR EPROM... I went back and looked at my old emails, and apparently there's more to the MTR-90 ROM version story. You can use either 444-142 *or* 444-84 with the soft-sector controller. Version 444-142 is reported to support both 40 and 80 track drives; 444-84 supports only 40 track drives. Tony, out of curiousity, what are your versions of the various PROMs and EPROMs at U516, 517, 518, and 520 on your Z90? Patrick From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Apr 3 17:49:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: "Andy Holt" "RE: Need byte-splitter utility" (Apr 1, 11:28) References: <000001c2f839$6d271f60$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <10304040020.ZM5157@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 1, 11:28, Andy Holt wrote: > > What is the difference between odd/even and high/low? > > > On a "little-endian" bus: none > On a "big-endian" bus: flipping the low order address bit :-) > or is it vice-versa. Depends if it's word-aligned or not :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Thu Apr 3 18:34:01 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:47 2005 Subject: Cromemco Z80 system up In-Reply-To: <20030403234650.9C4643DF2@xmxpita.excite.com> from "Tim" at Apr 03, 2003 06:46:50 PM Message-ID: <200304040031.h340VObD022267@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Just thought I'd let people know, I ran across this on ebay. Not my acution, and I'd buy it for my collection if I had the money. Starting is $100. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3410837542&category=1247 Cromemco 64K-Z80 System Dual drive system. Has four(4) Cromemco brand cards. * A Z80 Card *A 64K Memory Card *A Disk Controller Card *A Printer Card From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Apr 3 18:35:35 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: Sector interleave (was: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette Message-ID: <200304040031.QAA24891@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > >> > I always wondered, if it was so easy to change the sector interleave on >> > disks to make them load faster, why didn't the original >> > programmers/designers optimize the interleave in the first place? >On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, ben franchuk wrote: >> It depends on your disk hardware and the speed of your computer. >> 1) Computers got faster 2) Disk i/o got dma rather than poiled >> i/o. > >It also depends on what kind of processinbg is being done to it during >loading. For example, dumping file contents into RAM can be done a lot >faster than loading a document into a word-processor. > >The fastest interleave occurs if the system can handle the next sector >immediately after the previous. In that case, the fastest sequence is >plain sequential, and a track can be read in a single revolution. But >when you add extra processing of the data during reading, (such as a word >processor loading a document), you could end up with NOT being ready for >the next sector in time, resulting in the read taking as many revolutions >of the disk as there are sectors per track. Alternating sectors might >reduce that to two revolutions (or skipping 2 sectors, etc.), but that can >easily be twice as long as necessary for a task that did NOT need the >extraneous processing. Most system software developers DO think that >they have optimized it. But they have optimized it for the type of file >access that they EXPECT you to be doing (usually whatever THEY do most). > >BTW, it can be done either by placing the physical sectors in various >orders (such as 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8,10) OR can be done by a translation >between logical sector and physical sector (physical sectors numbered >1,2,3,4, . . . , but data that doesn't finish in sector 1 continues in >sector 3, etc.) > Hi Fred As I recall, most things worked well with just 2 to 1 interleaving. The major problem was how the H89 used the hard sectored. It was guaranteed to wait one extra sector hole, regardless of the speed of the software. This meant that consecutive sectors took an extra revolution+ to find the next sector. I always figured that Heathkit continued to sell the formatter with the 1 to 1 because it made the soft sectored look much better when there really wasn't much difference between the two. This was one of the big claims for upgrading to the soft sectored. As I recall, there was formatter from HUG that was like the one I had. I wrote my Forth because I couldn't justify a separate purchase of HDOS( which I later acquired ). I wrote my own disk interface to FIG's block access. That was when I noticed the slow access and rewrote my formatter. It wasn't until later that I found that all of the HDOS disk had the slow access as well. My H89 was my second computer, after my Poly88. I did find that some BASIC programs worked a little better with a 3 to 1 formatting but that wasn't typical. Even then, writes and read were different. Dwight From ian_primus at yahoo.com Thu Apr 3 18:42:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: Perkin Elmer 550 Terminal and CRT mildew Message-ID: I recently acquired a nice looking Perkin Elmer 550 terminal. I haven't powered it on yet, as I just unpacked it and it's still somewhat cold from being shipped, but the person I got it from said that it works. It certainly looks to be in very good condition, I even have the manual. Right now, the only thing that worries me is that there seems to be a little bit of mold or mildew forming under the protective cover on the CRT. I remember seeing this mentioned on a site linked to on a post a while back (http://www.science.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/rampspoed.html). It isn't very noticeable, and only on the very corners, but I would like to clean it off, or at least find a way to prevent it from spreading. What causes this growth? What can be done to prevent it? I have a Hazeltine terminal that has a protective plastic cover, but no mold, and I want to keep it that way. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 3 18:45:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Rigney" at Apr 3, 3 03:45:27 pm Message-ID: > > The Z90 is built to be 64K a H89 isn't. As far > > as I recall, the H89 took more than a simple jumper or > > switch to make it CP/M compatable. > > Also, one should note that HDOS came in both hard and soft sectored. > > Dwight > > Dwight, I think you're right. Address decode is controlled by U516 and U517 > on the CPU board... and those are PROMs of Heath's creation... close to I have, of course, dumps of the 2 proms (one is 32*8, the other 256*4) in my Z90. They're a lot less 'unobtainium' than many chips I deal with!. > unobtainium. I have several different versions of each of these PROMs, but > I haven't yet figured out their contents and differences. IIRC, there were modified PROMs for CP/M-capable machines, which allowed the memory to be re-mapped with RAM at address 0. Older version CPU boards need a jumper wire (from an output port bit to a pin on the PROM, basically) for this, I think it's a trace on later boards. > Tony, out of curiousity, what are your versions of the various PROMs and > EPROMs at U516, 517, 518, and 520 on your Z90? That would involve getting to the Z90, which is not going to be trivial.... -tony From patrick at evocative.com Thu Apr 3 19:12:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I have, of course, dumps of the 2 proms (one is 32*8, the other 256*4) in > my Z90. They're a lot less 'unobtainium' than many chips I deal with!. That's good news, because I have a few CPU boards I'd like to upgrade... so, modern equivalent blanks are available? I haven't ripped labels off of any of them to see what they really are. > > Tony, out of curiousity, what are your versions of the various PROMs and > > EPROMs at U516, 517, 518, and 520 on your Z90? > > That would involve getting to the Z90, which is not going to be > trivial.... LOL! Sure, just curious. I want to confirm my suspicions that this '89 I'm using has been upgraded to the equivalent of your '90, but I'll take it on faith. If I can get that soft-sectored controller going, then it's equivalent enough for me. But hey, wasn't this the thread where two days ago, everyone was talking about how easy it was to open cases and build cables? ;-) Patrick From eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com Thu Apr 3 19:30:00 2003 From: eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4901.4.20.168.182.1049419641.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> I have, of course, dumps of the 2 proms (one is 32*8, the other 256*4) >> in my Z90. They're a lot less 'unobtainium' than many chips I deal >> with!. > > That's good news, because I have a few CPU boards I'd like to upgrade... > so, modern equivalent blanks are available? I haven't ripped labels off > of any of them to see what they really are. No, there are basically no modern equivalents for those parts. Cypress makes some CMOS PROM and EPROM parts for bipolar replacement, but not in those small sizes, and the ones that they do make are extremely expensive. And it looks like they're phasing out the windowed (erasable) parts. If you need to replace those parts, you'll have to buy surplus or NOS (new old stock) parts. From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Apr 3 20:04:00 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: VAX VLC deal In-Reply-To: <021201c2fa1c$1dbcb590$190bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: Everyone interested in a VAXstation 4000VLC, a while ago I put out an announcement about a batch of these I was going to pick up and distribute. The pick-up trip will be this Saturday, 05-Apr. If you are not on this list: Brian Chase, Neil Carpenter, John Allain, Paul Thompson, adrian/witchy I have not heard from you. If you tried to contact me, try again harder. If I hear from you by 1700 CST = 2300 UTC, Friday, 04-Apr-2003, I'll try to add you in. If you are on the list above, I'm emailing you separately to double-check. - Mark From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 3 20:06:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: Thanks - was Re: Cool calculator In-Reply-To: <3E8CAB52.6080200@gifford.co.uk> References: <02a201c2fa28$af540470$190bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030403204047.0f1f9878@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> John, What type and brand of batteries were they? Sounds like good ones to avoid! Joe At 10:44 PM 4/3/03 +0100, you wrote: >Keys wrote: >> From: "Tony Duell" >>>Oh yes, it _eats_ batteries. Officially you're supposed to use 4 D-size >>>NiCds. It will run of alkaline cells, but it drains them in a few minutes >>>(!). > >Just a quick cautionary tale about batteries; we have a digital camera >at the office, a cheap Logitek one. We used it all day, for five days >and on the last day, the batteries burst inside the battery compartment. >We suddenly had hot, caustic battery electrolyte all over the place! >Now, it doesn't really matter with a modern, off-the-shelf gadget, but >with an irreplaceable classic, it could be more serious. > >Do check that the batteries you use don't start to overheat! > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Apr 3 22:09:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: OT X is as to VMS as Linux is as to Unix...??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Could an "open" VMS be written, much as was Linux buy a bunch of guys with Pentiums? Could a modern X86 machine run a such a thing? With Terminals on both terminal servers and on the serial ports.... Comments? From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Apr 3 22:14:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: OT X is as to VMS as Linux is as to Unix...??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > Could an "open" VMS be written, much as was Linux buy a bunch of guys > with Pentiums? > > Could a modern X86 machine run a such a thing? With Terminals on both > terminal servers and on the serial > ports.... You mean like what the FreeVMS project is trying to do? http://freshmeat.net/projects/freevms/?topic_id=144 and http://www.freevms.org/ Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Apr 3 22:59:01 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: Thanks - was Re: Cool calculator References: <02a201c2fa28$af540470$190bdd40@oemcomputer> <3E8CAB52.6080200@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3E8D108A.50501@cox.net> It is hard to imagine that the batteries could have been the problem. Most likely, something was charging the battery. This is common if the device supports rechargeables as an option (whether or not it was purchased with that option), and the right jumper is in place or a switch gets flipped. Having repaired countless consumer electronic items, I've seen it many times. Another likely possibility is if one cell is reversed in the pack, thereby receiving a charge. -Bryan > > and on the last day, the batteries burst inside the battery compartment. > We suddenly had hot, caustic battery electrolyte all over the place! > > Do check that the batteries you use don't start to overheat! From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Apr 3 23:17:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: OT X is as to VMS as Linux is as to Unix...??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5DDEB286-665C-11D7-ADC7-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Thursday, April 3, 2003, at 08:17 PM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > You mean like what the FreeVMS project is trying to do? > http://freevms.free.fr.index.gb looks good. I wish I could help but I think by the time I learn to program on that level, they will have finished. Ron "who only knows enough C to be dangerous" From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Apr 3 23:47:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: Do you recognize these boards? In-Reply-To: <20030403154008.42006.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030403154008.42006.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Tothwolf wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > > > Does anyone recognize these three boards? > > > > > > http://www.rigneyfamily.com/patrick/ > > > > ...which is similar to what you see in older SGI and VAX systems. > > That much is true. DEC (don't know about SGI) went to "PMI" - Private > Memory Interconnect - to get around problems with address bus width and > memory speeds with processors above the MicroVAX-I (the Qbus is limited > to 22 address bits and about 3MB/sec transfer rate). The older SGI systems that used a Multibus backplane had a similar PMI like connection between the processor board and memory boards. Later systems with a (custom) VME backplane also used interconnects, but they were made with small pc boards and connectors instead of ribbon cable. If memory serves, the memory boards didn't need those interconnect boards, but many other board sets did, such as the video/display boards. I do have several standard VME boards installed onto adapter frames that are plugged into some of my (currently inaccessible) SGI systems. > > (Can anyone verify if the 6821/6822 are some sort of bus interface > > chips?) > > They are not. The 6821 is a common "Parallel Interface Adapter". It > has two 8-bit parallel ports, several handshaking lines and a couple of > internal timers. It is functionally equivalent to the MOS 6520, and is > somewhat ancestral to chips like the 6522 and 6526. They are commonly > used in 1970s and 1980s gear to strobe keyboard matrices, to drive > external parallel devices, and to control LED and LCD displays (there's > a 6520 on the display board on a Rockwell AIM-65, for example - I've put > a 6821 in mine for testing). I have to wonder then, if that connector might not be some kind of bulkhead connector. Later SGI systems (1990-1994) use a 68 pin header for the bulkhead, which contains a number of serial ports and also connects to another board that has a 7 segment diagnostic display, etc. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Apr 4 00:08:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: Thanks - was Re: Cool calculator In-Reply-To: <3E8CB430.7060703@gifford.co.uk> References: <3E8CB430.7060703@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, John Honniball wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > Ouch!!! How did it managhe that? Drawing excessive current from the > > battery? > > I presume so, yes. Or conceivably, trying to charge the alkaline cells > from the USB power input? I didn't actually see it happen, but I did > get to clean up the mess. I'd imagine something tried to charge one or more of the cells. Theoretically, you can (sometimes) charge an Alkaline cell, under controlled conditions, if it is not completely depleted, but you still run the risk of splitting its case or blowing its seal. This is especially true with cells that use cheaply made cases (I've seen cells that lacked vents, and some that had very bad seals) and/or if too much current is available while charging. Now, I'd still _not recommend_ anyone try to charge primary cells, and under no circumstances should anyone ever attempt to charge such batteries in a standard NiCad charger... > > If I bought a device that caused the batteries to explode, not only > > would I want a full refund, I'd _never_ buy anything from that company > > again. > > Quite agree! If you decide to clean up after the incident, plain old vinegar will help remove the alkaline electrolyte. Of course, you also have to completely rinse off the vinegar, or it will begin to corrode metals too. Still, it could have been worse... A carbon-zinc cell's electrolyte will stain plastics orange, and will also eat away battery contacts in a fairly short time period. -Toth From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 4 00:13:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: Thanks - was Re: Cool calculator In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030403204047.0f1f9878@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > John, > > What type and brand of batteries were they? Sounds like good ones to avoid! > > Joe This reminds me that just the other day I saw a calculator in a thrift, IIRC, that carried the message to remove the batteries if you were going to run it on the wallwart for more than four hours to avoid over heating the alkaline cells. Sounds like a similar problem? - don > At 10:44 PM 4/3/03 +0100, you wrote: > >Keys wrote: > >> From: "Tony Duell" > >>>Oh yes, it _eats_ batteries. Officially you're supposed to use 4 D-size > >>>NiCds. It will run of alkaline cells, but it drains them in a few minutes > >>>(!). > > > >Just a quick cautionary tale about batteries; we have a digital camera > >at the office, a cheap Logitek one. We used it all day, for five days > >and on the last day, the batteries burst inside the battery compartment. > >We suddenly had hot, caustic battery electrolyte all over the place! > >Now, it doesn't really matter with a modern, off-the-shelf gadget, but > >with an irreplaceable classic, it could be more serious. > > > >Do check that the batteries you use don't start to overheat! > > > >-- > >John Honniball > >coredump@gifford.co.uk From n8uhn at yahoo.com Fri Apr 4 00:52:01 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 Message-ID: <20030404064914.70473.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com> Which is why i keep an old db25,ibm, 8 bit, single port "asynchronus serial communications adaptor" (serial port) card around. if you rotate one of the dip jumper packs 90 deg, it goes from async to current loop. try that with a multifunction card (hehe) the pins for current loop are different then the async pins. great for testing out teletypes or old ham gear ;) the other jumper pack sets com 1 or 2 Bill Message: 5 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 20:51:28 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Joe Subject: Re: IBM 5161 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org At 06:35 PM 4/2/03 -0700, you wrote: >Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >>>>incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current >>>>loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to >>>> >>>> >> >>On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: >> >> >>>Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port is a very useful thing to have... >>> >>> >> >>Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other >>companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for >>serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX >>functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were? >> >floppy, game port BEEP! Nope. Joe --__--__-- From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 4 03:07:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: breathing life into old chips Message-ID: <20030404090456.95523.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> hi, this is sort of off-topic as it applies to my TV and not a computer, but I bet some of the folks here can offer advice... :) the microcontroller in the set seems to have developed a fault which only appears when the set's warm. Tracking down a replacement seems to be easier said than done as the chip was obviously discontinued a while back (and then I'd have to worry about the on-board ROM anyway). At the moment though there's no heatsink on the chip - if I do stick a heatsink on it in the hope that it keeps it cool enough to operate, is it still likely to fail at a later date anyway? Once a chip's started to exhibit heat-related problems is that basically the end of it even if something's done about the cooling? I figure some of you people will likely know about these things :) (the chip in question is a ST9293J9B1/AEL for the record, but no infomation appears to exist on the web or on ST's site for it; wish I could get pin-outs to check that it is the chip and not surrounding circuitry that's failing) cheers! Jules For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer From mbates at whoopis.com Fri Apr 4 08:44:00 2003 From: mbates at whoopis.com (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply Message-ID: <79489800-66AB-11D7-93D9-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> Hi folks, Dunno if this is within the 10-year rule or not, but I don't know who else to ask. :) I've got a Power Computing 100, one of the earliest Mac clones (equivalent to Mac 8100/100, though the logic board is physically different). It seems that its power supply has died. It is a Seasonic SSH-200G. I'm pretty ignorant about PSU standards, so am not sure what I need to look for in a replacement -- a friend said "it looks like an AT power supply, but that little 4-pin plug [which connects to the logic board, I think] is non-standard, so a standard AT PSU won't work as a replacement." It also has two large 6-pin plugs that plug into the motherboard as well. The rest of the plugs are standard 4-pin. Does anyone know what would be a compatible replacement? For example, I have been corresponding with the seller of this (which he will relist if I want it): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3670&item=3409672341&rd=1 which he says is the same except for being 250 watts instead of 200. But the model number's different and it looks a little different in the picture. Thanks in advance, -- MB From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Apr 4 09:08:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply References: <79489800-66AB-11D7-93D9-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> Message-ID: <3E8D9F2F.1080102@eoni.com> Marion Bates wrote: > Hi folks, > > Dunno if this is within the 10-year rule or not, but I don't know who > else to ask. :) > > I've got a Power Computing 100, one of the earliest Mac clones > (equivalent to Mac 8100/100, though the logic board is physically > different). It seems that its power supply has died. It is a Seasonic > SSH-200G. I'm pretty ignorant about PSU standards, so am not sure > what I need to look for in a replacement -- a friend said "it looks > like an AT power supply, but that little 4-pin plug [which connects > to the logic board, I think] is non-standard, so a standard AT PSU > won't work as a replacement." It also has two large 6-pin plugs that > plug into the motherboard as well. The rest of the plugs are standard > 4-pin. > > Does anyone know what would be a compatible replacement? For example, > I have been corresponding with the seller of this (which he will > relist if I want it): > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ > eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3670&item=3409672341&rd=1 > which he says is the same except for being 250 watts instead of 200. > But the model number's different and it looks a little different in > the picture. > > Thanks in advance, > > -- MB > > . > or the PowerComputing list on Lowendmac.com. More watts is better. Jim From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 4 09:15:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: OT X is as to VMS as Linux is as to Unix...??? In-Reply-To: <5DDEB286-665C-11D7-ADC7-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <20030404151308.95256.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ron Hudson wrote: > On Thursday, April 3, 2003, at 08:17 PM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > You mean like what the FreeVMS project is trying to do? > > > > http://freevms.free.fr.index.gb looks good. I think you mean this: http://freevms.free.fr/indexGB.html > I wish I could help but I think by the time I learn to > program on that level, they will have finished. > > Ron "who only knows enough C to be dangerous" I've been dangerous for years. :-) Somewhere, I still have my very first C program from 1985. It's cretinous. -ethan From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Fri Apr 4 09:18:00 2003 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: Anyone with LP25 Schematics? (or a power board) Message-ID: Hi, I've got a DEC LP25 line printer here I just unearthed. I picked it up (ha!) a couple of years back and didn't have much success repairing it. Anyway - I discovered it after my parents tried to move it - oblivious to the fact the cover wasn't screwed on, and dropped it. Looks like just cosmetic damage - but impossible to test as the power board didn't work 2 years ago, and still doesnt. There's some cosmetic damage (read corner it landed on totally smashed) but I don't see any obvious damage to the workings. I've got the maintainance manual, which has the test points in for just about everything, apart from the power board. Only tells me the motherboard voltages, all of which are absent, apart from the 38V you get from the PSU itself. So if anyone out there has the schematic for the power board in this beast (or even a complete set of schematics) and the ability to scan them in, that would be an enormous help. Also, any ideas for how to prod board with meter when it's in the machine would be useful, as you can only get to one side of the board due to the location of the card in the machine. The cards are plugged into standard edge connectors, with a pair of fingers on the cards themselves. I figure some sort of extender might be my best bet, but how to get hold of such a thing is another matter. I suppose I could always make one :&) Oh - I have a sneaking feeling the paper drive motor is fried (that's my initial thought to why the power board is dead) cause it doesn't look at all sane when you put a meter over it (infinite resistance if memory serves). So where to find a replacement would be nice. Any thoughts on the matter would be useful. It seems a shame to gut it and trash it when I'm sure it *could* be repaired. -- Matt From cb at mythtech.net Fri Apr 4 09:19:26 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply Message-ID: >I've got a Power Computing 100, one of the earliest Mac clones >(equivalent to Mac 8100/100, though the logic board is physically >different). It seems that its power supply has died. It is a Seasonic >SSH-200G. I'm pretty ignorant about PSU standards, so am not sure what >I need to look for in a replacement -- a friend said "it looks like an >AT power supply, but that little 4-pin plug [which connects to the >logic board, I think] is non-standard, so a standard AT PSU won't work >as a replacement." It also has two large 6-pin plugs that plug into the >motherboard as well. The rest of the plugs are standard 4-pin. If you find out any info, forward it on to me. I recently aquired one of those as well, and the power supply, along with every other cable in it, has had all the wires cut. It looks like someone either was fired and pissed off, so they took their revenge on the machine, or more likely (since the hard drive is missing as well), the machine was officially "decommissioned" and rendered to an unusable state to take it off the books. Before I go thru the effort of patching the leads together, if I can find a suitable, available replacement, I'll go that route for the purpose of testing it to see if the system has been damaged in other ways (then if it works, I'll go back and patch the power supply together, just because it will be fun). I did ask a Power Computing list if the Power100 used a standard AT power supply, and was told that it does not. However, the person that gave me the response spent no effort discussing how it differs, but did spend 3 paragraphs telling me not to waste my time with a Power100 and instead to buy a used PowerTower Pro. So that told me that they just didn't get it, and didn't understand the interest in reviving an old machine... which also makes me suspect the validity of their answer (not that failing to understand old computers equals a lack of knowledge of the power supply... just that it seemed more like an uninterested/uninformed wave off of the power supply question in the effort to push me to a newer faster machine). -chris From drido at optushome.com.au Fri Apr 4 09:32:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply In-Reply-To: <79489800-66AB-11D7-93D9-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030405012918.010d93cc@mail.optushome.com.au> At 09:41 AM 4/4/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hi folks, > >Dunno if this is within the 10-year rule or not, but I don't know who >else to ask. :) > >I've got a Power Computing 100, one of the earliest Mac clones >(equivalent to Mac 8100/100, though the logic board is physically >different). It seems that its power supply has died. It is a Seasonic >SSH-200G. I'm pretty ignorant about PSU standards, so am not sure what >I need to look for in a replacement -- a friend said "it looks like an >AT power supply, but that little 4-pin plug [which connects to the >logic board, I think] is non-standard, so a standard AT PSU won't work >as a replacement." It also has two large 6-pin plugs that plug into the >motherboard as well. The rest of the plugs are standard 4-pin. > >Does anyone know what would be a compatible replacement? For example, I >have been corresponding with the seller of this (which he will relist >if I want it): >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ >eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3670&item=3409672341&rd=1 >which he says is the same except for being 250 watts instead of 200. >But the model number's different and it looks a little different in the >picture. I'm not familiar with the power computing 100, but the power supply in the auction listing you posted appears to be a standard AT power supply. I doubt it will work, at least not without modification. Assuming that your system has soft power like most macs that little 4 pin connector probably carries +5V standby power and the turn on signal. Or they may be +3V if there is no 3V regulator on the power computing 100 motherboard. Neither are present on a standard AT power suppply. If you can't get an exact replacement power supply you may be able to adapt an ATX power supply. Some details for using an ATX power supply in a mac can be found here: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/MacinPC_ATX_case/pages/PC-MAC_PS_pinouts. htm The pinout for the mac 8100 power connector and others are on this page. There is also a circuit on this site that inverts the power on signal on the mac to be compatible with the power on signal on the ATX power supply. Of course having not seen a Power Computing 100 I can't be sure if any of this is relevant to you. From mbates at whoopis.com Fri Apr 4 09:41:00 2003 From: mbates at whoopis.com (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9334852E-66B3-11D7-93D9-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> Jim's post had a good link -- powerwatch.com. (Thanks!) I am on a cruddy connection right now, so haven't pored through it in depth yet, but take a look. What I may do is look for an entire Power 100 machine on eBay (found one last week, but the seller pulled it unexpectedly before it was due to end). They're usually pretty cheap. If I end up going that route to get a PSU, I'd be happy sell you the rest of the parts for cost of shipping. (Probably ought to keep them for the next piece that fails in mine, but I don't have the space for that. Plus I will become obsessed with finding another PSU to make the second PC100 work, so I'll buy a third, etc.) Obviously if we did this, you would still need a power supply too, but might be a good way to share the cost of other parts. FYI for when you either patch up the one you've got, or replace it. In the powerwatch bulletin boards, for Power 100s that don't boot, people said to check three things: The logic board battery (I remember that from other Macs -- and mine is testing a little low, so I'm gonna go to rat shack and try that first), the fuse in the PSU (mine's fine), and the lithium button battery in the PSU itself (! what? Anyway, mine tested fine. Why does PSU have its own battery? lol). One thing I wondered about -- I tried to test the power supply itself by plugging it into the wall, flipping the switch to "on", and probing the leads with a voltmeter. Nothing. But with this particular computer, you have to have that switch on AND push the soft power-on button, either on the front of the case or from the triangle key on the keyboard. So, is it possible that the PSU is not dead, but that I am not getting anything because the power-on signal's not being sent when it's not in the computer? Not, not, not, not? Sorry for the ignorance. I want there to be a giant scorch mark and melted plastic if the power supply's really had it -- that'd be more convincing. ;) Thanks again, -- MB On Friday, April 4, 2003, at 10:15 AM, chris wrote: > I recently aquired one of > those as well, and the power supply, along with every other cable in > it, > has had all the wires cut. > ... > Before I go thru the effort of patching the leads together, if I can > find > a suitable, available replacement, I'll go that route for the purpose > of > testing it to see if the system has been damaged in other ways (then if > it works, I'll go back and patch the power supply together, just > because > it will be fun). From drido at optushome.com.au Fri Apr 4 09:49:01 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply In-Reply-To: <9334852E-66B3-11D7-93D9-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030405014639.010dbeb4@mail.optushome.com.au> >I tried to test the power supply itself by plugging >it into the wall, flipping the switch to "on", and probing the leads >with a voltmeter. Nothing. But with this particular computer, you have >to have that switch on AND push the soft power-on button, either on the >front of the case or from the triangle key on the keyboard. So, is it >possible that the PSU is not dead, but that I am not getting anything >because the power-on signal's not being sent when it's not in the >computer? Not, not, not, not? Also, most switchmode power supplies will not power up without a load of some sort. For example, to test ATX power supplies outside of a computer I connect an old HDD as a load and short the power-on line to GND. Same principal applies to Mac power supplies except you short the power on line to +5V (from memory, it's been a while so check before you short anything). From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Fri Apr 4 09:55:01 2003 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: OT X is as to VMS as Linux is as to Unix...??? References: <20030404151308.95256.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 10:13 AM Subject: Re: OT X is as to VMS as Linux is as to Unix...??? > Somewhere, I still have my very first C program from 1985. It's cretinous. > > -ethan Doesn't everybody still have their first C program? #include int main() { printf("Hello World!\n"); return 0; } From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Apr 4 09:57:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply References: Message-ID: <3E8DAADA.7050508@eoni.com> From mbates at whoopis.com Fri Apr 4 10:04:00 2003 From: mbates at whoopis.com (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030405014639.010dbeb4@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: Ah, cool! Thank you for the advice. I am even more eager to try replacing that motherboard battery now. Thanks again. -- MB (By the way -- is everyone getting two copies of my posts? If so, I apologize...recently unsubbed and resubbed because I changed email accounts, and maybe I did something stupid.) On Friday, April 4, 2003, at 09:46 AM, Dr. Ido wrote: > Also, most switchmode power supplies will not power up without a load > of > some sort. For example, to test ATX power supplies outside of a > computer I > connect an old HDD as a load and short the power-on line to GND. Same > principal applies to Mac power supplies except you short the power on > line > to +5V (from memory, it's been a while so check before you short > anything). From cb at mythtech.net Fri Apr 4 10:08:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply Message-ID: >What I may do is look for an entire Power 100 machine on eBay (found >one last week, but the seller pulled it unexpectedly before it was due >to end). They're usually pretty cheap. If I end up going that route to >get a PSU, I'd be happy sell you the rest of the parts for cost of >shipping. (Probably ought to keep them for the next piece that fails in >mine, but I don't have the space for that. Plus I will become obsessed >with finding another PSU to make the second PC100 work, so I'll buy a >third, etc.) Obviously if we did this, you would still need a power >supply too, but might be a good way to share the cost of other parts. If you get one, let me know. I probably won't want all the parts, as that will just cause me to want to get TWO PC100's to work (much the same reason you don't want to keep it). However, I would want the SCSI and floppy drive ribbon cables, as even those have been cut in mine. The SCSI cable is trivial for me to replace (I can order one from anywhere, or even pull one from inside an old external hard drive... ironically, I just gave away a cable that would have worked fine since I had it sitting on a shelf unused for years), but the floppy cable isn't as easy, and I would most likely have to buy fresh ribbon of the right size, and swap the ends to it. Not a tough job, but more work than simply buying the cables from your parts machine. I may also want to buy some other parts, like the front panel switches, since those have had their leads cut as well (although those are all fairly easy to patch together). -chris From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Apr 4 10:40:01 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: breathing life into old chips Message-ID: <410-22003454163746376@M2W045.mail2web.com> Hi Jules, one of the ways to isolate a heat issues is to find a can of cold spray (Chemtronics Freeze Spray). They sell them at electronics stores and places like www.mcmelectronics.com (just searcj for it there). You allow the fual to start and then selectivespray different parts to cool them down. If the fault goes away on a particular device then you have your culprit. best regards, Steve Thatcher Original Message: ----------------- From: Jules Richardson julesrichardsonuk@yahoo.co.uk Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:04:56 +0100 (BST) To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: breathing life into old chips hi, this is sort of off-topic as it applies to my TV and not a computer, but I bet some of the folks here can offer advice... :) the microcontroller in the set seems to have developed a fault which only appears when the set's warm. Tracking down a replacement seems to be easier said than done as the chip was obviously discontinued a while back (and then I'd have to worry about the on-board ROM anyway). At the moment though there's no heatsink on the chip - if I do stick a heatsink on it in the hope that it keeps it cool enough to operate, is it still likely to fail at a later date anyway? Once a chip's started to exhibit heat-related problems is that basically the end of it even if something's done about the cooling? I figure some of you people will likely know about these things :) (the chip in question is a ST9293J9B1/AEL for the record, but no infomation appears to exist on the web or on ST's site for it; wish I could get pin-outs to check that it is the chip and not surrounding circuitry that's failing) cheers! Jules For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer http://mail2web.com/ . From mbates at whoopis.com Fri Apr 4 11:13:00 2003 From: mbates at whoopis.com (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: That pesky battery! (was: Re: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply) Message-ID: <5EBEEC1C-66C0-11D7-93D9-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> Well okay then! I dug around in the pile of old Macs in the basement and found an identical 3.6v mb battery, which tested good...stuck that in there, plugged old PSU back in, and it boots! Hooray! Thanks for all the help, everyone! :) (Sorry Chris, guess I won't be getting parts to share with you now...good luck with your Power 100 repair project.) -- MB From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Fri Apr 4 11:16:00 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: Origins of Hierarchical Filesystems In-Reply-To: <200303110341.WAA25750@parse.com> Message-ID: <001201c2facd$32fa4f60$4d4d2c0a@atx> Sorry to be so slow in responding to this - I tried to find some good references but got nowhere definite. My best impression is that the concept first came to light in the mid '60s ... probably inspired by the structure of the Algol 60 programming language. Likely first appeared in "research" operating systems in continental europe (people like Dijkstra and Wirth were much more keen on recursion than most UK or US researchers) and then appeared in better-known systems like Multics and George 3. Some systems had a limited number of levels of hierarchy - typically system/user and sometimes one more level below. Often this was done by "cheating" with what was really a single level directory. I'm not sure how Atlas and Titan did it. I'm also not convinced that the early versions of TOPS 10 had anything better than this ... similarly for the GE time sharing system that eventually evolved into GCOS. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Robert Krten > Sent: 11 March 2003 03:41 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Origins of Hierarchical Filesystems > > > Hi folks, > > writing a chapter on filesystems, and was wondering if anyone knows the > origins of the hierarchical filesystem (and no, it wasn't MS-DOS 2.0 :-)) > > I know TOPS-10 and friends used it, so it's got to be at least that old. > > Any takers? > > I'm looking for a ballpark year and the name of the OS and company... > > Probably just reply to me only; I'll be happy to summarize for the group. > > Thanks! > -RK > > -- > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From quapla at xs4all.nl Fri Apr 4 11:37:00 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: New Finds & question Message-ID: <3E8DC229.6C8B4C3D@xs4all.nl> Hello all, This morning I picked up some Dec stuff : 1x Alpha 400/166 + 1 Dec storage tower running Unix 1x Alpha 400/166 + 1 Dec storage tower running NT 1 Infotower/infoserver 1000 with 5 CD-Rom's 1 Vax 4000/100 With it came a box of cables, for which I have no idea where they can be used for. One of the cables is marked BC18D-02 and is about 50cm long, the other is a cable which has on one end a sort of high density connector and has a small block in the middle which forks into 4 D25 connectors. The vax 4000 has the female connectors at the back, am I right if these cables are for terminals? Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn onbetrouwbaar quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Wie mij te na komt zal het weten. '97 TL1000S | From patrick at evocative.com Fri Apr 4 11:48:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > Tony, out of curiousity, what are your versions of the > various PROMs and > > > EPROMs at U516, 517, 518, and 520 on your Z90? > > > > That would involve getting to the Z90, which is not going to be > > trivial.... FYI, I found this while trolling through some links on retroarchive.org. Excerpt (edited) from an Arpanet message dated 17-feb-1984: "When I ordered CP/M the first time and it didn't work, I called Heath and they said "Oh, yeah, you need a hardware upgrade!" So I did the following: 1) Replaced the 444-42 in U517 with a 444-66 2) Connect a jumper from the middle pin of U503 to pin 17 of P509 They assured me this would work. However, to make the full upgrade, I could also do: 3) Replace the 444-40 in U518 with a 444-62 4) Replace the 444-43 in U550 with a 444-61 If I did this, I would lose cassette capability. Since this wasn't necessary (they said) I decided to just do 1 & 2. When I did this and it still didn't work, I called Heath again. They said it should have worked and my disk must be bad. So they sent me a new disk..guess what, still didn't work. Then they say hardware problem with the disk drive. That's when I put my problem on the net. Mr. D. C. Finch of Phoenix was kind enough to write me a letter (they have R/O access to the net) which told me that indeed 3 & 4 were necessary (at least for CP/M 2.2.03 and later). So this morning I called Heath again and they said, "That's right, you have to replace all three chips!" Just wish they had said that back in November!! I'll be happy to give anyone the details of Mr. Finch's letter if asked, I don't think most people are that interested. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Apr 4 11:59:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: breathing life into old chips In-Reply-To: <20030404090456.95523.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com>; from julesrichardsonuk@yahoo.co.uk on Fri, Apr 04, 2003 at 11:04:56 CEST References: <20030404090456.95523.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030404185231.F151928@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.04.04 11:04 Jules Richardson wrote: > the microcontroller in the set seems to have developed a fault > which only appears when the set's warm. Are you sure it is the microcontroller? Problems of this kind are "cold" solder points much more often then failed components. => Resolder everything on the PCB, especially where the PCB gets hot. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Apr 4 12:04:01 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply In-Reply-To: <9334852E-66B3-11D7-93D9-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> References: <9334852E-66B3-11D7-93D9-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> Message-ID: <3E8DC827.7090603@charter.net> I have a fully functioning Power 100. The power supply won't start if the pram battery is dead. It's the standard 3.6v 950mAH lithium cell that 75% of all Mac's use. Rat Shack has them for around $10 or Fry's has them for $6.00. It's a Tadiran TL-5151. Some Mac's you can crowbar into starting without the battery by rapidly pressing the power on button several times off and on, but the Power 100 isn't one of those. I'm working on my Mac clones this weekend, so I can check voltages and pinouts. I adapted an ATX supply to my Daystar Genesis MP800. It has an uptime of over 5 months as of this week. I've since picked up an original Daystar/Magnetrol supply, but sine the 550watt ATX is still cooking, I haven't installed it. You are right about the lack of response on the lem PowerComputing list. Nobody want's to talk about the NuBus machines. From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Apr 4 12:07:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: That pesky battery! (was: Re: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply) In-Reply-To: <5EBEEC1C-66C0-11D7-93D9-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> References: <5EBEEC1C-66C0-11D7-93D9-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> Message-ID: <3E8DC8CD.4030309@charter.net> Marion Bates wrote: > Well okay then! I dug around in the pile of old Macs in the basement > and found an identical 3.6v mb battery, which tested good...stuck that > in there, plugged old PSU back in, and it boots! Hooray! > > Thanks for all the help, everyone! :) (Sorry Chris, guess I won't > be getting parts to share with you now...good luck with your Power 100 > repair project.) > > -- MB > Glad it worked out. I suspected it was the battery. James http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Apr 4 12:19:01 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: <20030402051349.45233.qmail@web40703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Bill Allen Jr > Sent: 02 April 2003 06:14 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: IBM 5161 > > > The ibm 5161 expansion box was designed for use with > the ibm pc. And presumably *only* the PC, ie not the XT. > the pc had fewer slots then the later released pc xt > and it's power supply was too small to handle a hard > drive. Yep, 5 slots and a 63W PSU that couldn't even handle a fully populated backplane if some of the cards were a little power-hungry. > the exp box added a hard drive to the system and > provided extra card slots ( i think the box also had > additional bios or came with an extra fixed disk rom > chip that went into the pc). Not that I've found, just an 8-slot backplane which immediately loses a slot because one of them must be occupied by the receiving end of the expander interface that has to go in the 5150. There might be a BIOS in that interface though, I didn't really check that. The 5161 has a hard drive controller card in it as well as a Seagate monster that's probably only 5 or 10 meg. > the card that connects to the ribbon cables that come > from the exp box goes into one of the pc's card slots. No ribbon cables, just an interface cable that's thicker than my thumb! > i cannot remember if it is slot specific or if it can > go into any slot - there is a plate on the pc's back > that removes to allow the ribbon cables to exit the > case. There's a plate on the back, yes, maybe very early boxes used ribbons and the thicker cables came along later? > i was told that the expansion box was a little rare > because, shortly after the pc was released that pc xt > was released . Well, a year later anyway, after the 5150 had shifted 200,000 units according to most websites. I've put a breakdown of the kit on my IBM page - go to www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk and click on the link in the very top 'updates' message. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Apr 4 12:20:43 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: new computers... Finally! In-Reply-To: <000601c2f63b$219dfaa0$2e423c3e@pbncomputer> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of ninajane > Sent: 29 March 2003 21:36 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: new computers... Finally! > > > Hey (i dont know ur name) > > I have an Amiga 500+ with an > A520 adaptor. > When i tuned it to my T.V. it just stays dark blue, but says > there's a signal. > The animated hand thing doesn't even appear! Help! And I don't > have the poster > about the connections!!! If your screen stays blue you have a fault in one of the custom chips (AGNUS, PAULA or DENISE) so it's repair time! Also, if it's a 500+ you'll have version 2 ROMs which have an animated floppy disk, not the old 1.3 'badly drawn hand'. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From sridhar at neurotica.com Fri Apr 4 12:22:08 2003 From: sridhar at neurotica.com (sridhar@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: Ultrix Driver Question Message-ID: Hi people. I assume that SDI disks show up as /dev/ra* on Ultrix? What do the SDI controllers show up as? Specifically, the XMI ones? Peace... Sridhar From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Apr 4 12:23:33 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: <3E89DE8E.4040308@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of John Honniball > Sent: 01 April 2003 19:47 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: IBM 5161 > > > Witchy wrote: > > A surprise consignment arrived for me this morning - an IBM > 5150 in not bad > > condition complete with keyboard/monitor > > That's the original IBM PC, yes? What video card do you have? Original one right down to the cassette port and built-in Microsloth BASIC-80, but it's the later 256K board not the 64K one in the first version. It's also got a genuine Intel 8088, which is apparently surprising since most later models used AMD chips. The video card is the colour model with both CGA (or is it MDA?) and composite out. Had it in bits yesterday and it's got 512K RAM too - 256K on the board and 256K on a memory expansion card. > > and a 5161 expansion box, spare > > expansion card and 2 extender cables..... > > Very nice! I thought the kitchen was gonna take off when I powered it up yesterday :) The previous owner was kind enough to leave the Zork trilogy on there, as well as KA9Q! > Well, I have one, but then I'm probably not very typical! I never > saw one when I did PC and DOS programming back in the 1980s. One > or two clones with external hard disks, but no IBM expansion chassis. Probably too expensive! I haven't found any sites yet that actually mention prices for these things, the machine yes, but not the expander. From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 4 12:24:58 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: Ultrix Driver Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 04:28 AM, sridhar@neurotica.com wrote: > Hi people. I assume that SDI disks show up as /dev/ra* on Ultrix? > What > do the SDI controllers show up as? Specifically, the XMI ones? If memory serves, they'd show up as kdm. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I've grown hair again, just St. Petersburg, FL for the occasion." -Doc Shipley From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Apr 4 12:26:24 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 01 April 2003 23:57 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: IBM 5161 > > I am told they're fairly rare -- I've got a couple of them though. > There's info on it in the Options and Adapters TechRef volume 1 The two things I didn't get were a bundle of books and a bundle of disks. The hard drive in the expander has PC-DOS on it, REXX (not sure what that is, but it says IBM Internal when I start it), the Zork trilogy and KA9Q with other networking gubbins > system, and you have to set the DIP switches on the extender card to > indicate how much (if any) RAM is in the expansion unit rather than the > main system. Standard I/O cards can go in the expansion unit without > problems thougk Ah, that's what the DIP switches do..... Reading some websites yesterday there was also a bug in early versions of the BIOS that meant certain slots in the expander couldn't be used at particular ROM addresses, which must've made installing new cards a fun task if you didn't know that :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From spedraja at mail.ono.es Fri Apr 4 12:28:10 2003 From: spedraja at mail.ono.es (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit References: Message-ID: <03f501c2f957$210a7680$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Hello. Somebody knows if one HP9885 8" floppy unit can be attached to one HP- 9000/380 ? The unit came with one 50-pin SCSI or SASI type connector, and one 37-pin connector. Thanks and Greetings. Sergio From tuban at cisco.com Fri Apr 4 12:29:34 2003 From: tuban at cisco.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: SMD disk drive In-Reply-To: <1049380551.29415.2.camel@server.smithy.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030403092615.0292f200@ubanproductions.com> CDC also made some. I think that the Sabre might be one of the models... --tom At 09:35 AM 4/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I'm looking for an 8" SMD disk drive. The only ones I've seen were made >by NEC - and I can't seem to find any. What other companies made these >kind of drives? Any suggestions on where I should look or what (other) >kinds of equipment these were used in? (besides Wang minicomputers) > >-- >Jim Donoghue >Smithy Co. >(734) 913-6700 From timothy.p.radde at lmco.com Fri Apr 4 12:31:05 2003 From: timothy.p.radde at lmco.com (Radde, Timothy P) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: PDP-11/24 Available in Virginia Message-ID: <079B626B05A0D3118B1000508B0EA5E9143E3417@emss04m05.ems.lmco.com> Is this system still available? I am in Pennsylvania and might be interested. From c.morris at townsqr.com Fri Apr 4 12:32:35 2003 From: c.morris at townsqr.com (Dr. Charles E. Morris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:48 2005 Subject: DF32x4 questions; software needed Message-ID: <005b01c2fa1f$4b243730$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> My "DF32x4" disk emulator is alive and talking to my 8/L and appears to be reading and writing blocks of data correctly. There are a few instructions that I did not implement (e.g. the "Maintenance" IOT's 6631-4 which the manual says are only used in "diagnostic programming". Also the DCEA instruction does not clear the extended address and EA registers - it would have taken quite a bit more logic to implement and there was no more room on the PC board; additionally the DEAL instruction would be used anyway, which combines the clear action with a load of these registers from the AC - so the clear would be superfluous. The DEAL and DEAC load/read register commands are, of course, implemented). Ethan Dicks has pointed out that I should look at the drivers in OS8 and TSS8 to see if this will be a compatibility problem (i.e. they may expect to be able to clear EMA and EA for some reason, rather than loading them from the AC). Can anyone tell me where to find the source code so I can verify this? Also, I would love to have a paper tape copy of 4K Disk System Builder to start a build of Disk Monitor from scratch (I already have a copy of a DF32 build thanks to David Gesswein). Anyone? thanks Charles From tradde at excite.com Fri Apr 4 12:34:01 2003 From: tradde at excite.com (Tim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Hello, I am new to this list Message-ID: <20030403234650.9C4643DF2@xmxpita.excite.com> I should have said Hello before my first post. I just found out about this list. It seems quite impressive and very useful. I know I will get much use from it. Hopefully I can answer a question ever now and then too. Tim Radde _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Apr 4 12:35:26 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette Message-ID: <200304041819.KAA25322@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I guess the next question is, does anyone have the dumps of these chips or what the new mapping is?? I suspect that there is some remapping of the memory and some for the I/O. I don't know why it would take 3 chips though. I'll have to dig through my stuff to find a schematic. I may be able to figure it out from there. Dwight >From: "Patrick Rigney" > >> > > Tony, out of curiousity, what are your versions of the >> various PROMs and >> > > EPROMs at U516, 517, 518, and 520 on your Z90? >> > >> > That would involve getting to the Z90, which is not going to be >> > trivial.... > >FYI, I found this while trolling through some links on retroarchive.org. >Excerpt (edited) from an Arpanet message dated 17-feb-1984: > >"When I ordered CP/M the first time and it didn't work, I called >Heath and they said "Oh, yeah, you need a hardware upgrade!" >So I did the following: > >1) Replaced the 444-42 in U517 with a 444-66 >2) Connect a jumper from the middle pin of U503 to pin 17 of P509 >They assured me this would work. However, to make the full upgrade, >I could also do: >3) Replace the 444-40 in U518 with a 444-62 >4) Replace the 444-43 in U550 with a 444-61 >If I did this, I would lose cassette capability. Since this wasn't >necessary (they said) I decided to just do 1 & 2. > >When I did this and it still didn't work, I called Heath again. They >said it should have worked and my disk must be bad. So they sent me >a new disk..guess what, still didn't work. Then they say hardware >problem with the disk drive. That's when I put my problem on the net. >Mr. D. C. Finch of Phoenix was kind enough to write me a letter >(they have R/O access to the net) which told me that indeed 3 & 4 >were necessary (at least for CP/M 2.2.03 and later). So this morning >I called Heath again and they said, "That's right, you have to replace >all three chips!" Just wish they had said that back in November!! >I'll be happy to give anyone the details of Mr. Finch's letter if >asked, I don't think most people are that interested. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Apr 4 12:40:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Ebka Familiarizor 6502 Message-ID: <3E8DEC01.20805.10A30042@localhost> Now for something strange: Who of you has ever heared about a Ebka Industries Familiarizor 6502 I have just seen this little beast at ePay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3409229078 Now, doing a quick search, nothing did show up, except a very short mentioning in Hans Pufals list. Any other info around? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From menadeau at attbi.com Fri Apr 4 12:56:00 2003 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Ebka Familiarizor 6502 References: <3E8DEC01.20805.10A30042@localhost> Message-ID: <03b701c2fada$9a8de440$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> According to an ad in the April 1976 issue of BYTE (p. 33), it came with 1K user RAM, one input and one output port, and a 1702A EPROM with a monitor program with sockets for three more. It cost $229 as a kit and $285 assembled. Ebka Industries was located in Oklahoma City. Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Franke" To: Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: Ebka Familiarizor 6502 > Now for something strange: > > Who of you has ever heared about a Ebka Industries Familiarizor 6502 > I have just seen this little beast at ePay: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3409229078 > > Now, doing a quick search, nothing did show up, except a very > short mentioning in Hans Pufals list. > > Any other info around? > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 4 13:12:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit In-Reply-To: <03f501c2f957$210a7680$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Sergio, Yes it CAN be attached. You'd have to use the GPIO interface and probably have to write you're own drivers. The GPIO interface is the nearest thing to the original interface (HP 98034 option 85 IIRC) for the 9885. I THINK I remember that HP did make an 9885 interface for the early 9000 200 series computers but I don't remember the details. The original interface for the 9885 is a 16 bit parallel interface, it is NOT SASI or SCSI. Joe At 10:33 PM 4/2/03 +0200, you wrote: >Hello. Somebody knows if one HP9885 8" floppy unit can be attached to one >HP- >9000/380 ? The unit came with one 50-pin SCSI or SASI type connector, and >one >37-pin connector. > >Thanks and Greetings. > >Sergio From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 4 13:16:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: DF32x4 questions; software needed In-Reply-To: <005b01c2fa1f$4b243730$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> Message-ID: <20030404191351.42398.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Dr. Charles E. Morris" wrote: > My "DF32x4" disk emulator is alive and talking to my 8/L and appears to > be reading and writing blocks of data correctly. Public congratulations! --- > My "DF32x4" disk emulator is alive and talking to my 8/L and appears to > be > reading and writing blocks of data correctly. There are a few > instructions > that I did not implement (e.g. the "Maintenance" IOT's 6631-4 which the > manual says are only used in "diagnostic programming". - it > would > have taken quite a bit more logic to implement and there was no more room > on > the PC board; additionally the DEAL instruction would be used anyway, > which > combines the clear action with a load of these registers from the AC - so > the clear would be superfluous. The DEAL and DEAC load/read register > commands are, of course, implemented). > --- > There are a few instructions that I did not implement... > ... the DCEA instruction does not clear the extended address and EA > registers... Ethan Dicks has pointed out that I should look at the > drivers in OS8 and TSS8 to see if this will be a compatibility problem. Sorry I didn't get back you earlier, but over on David Gesswein's searchable software archive... RTS/8 DF-32 driver (probably will never matter, but good background info) http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/os8_html/RF08.PA?act=file;fn=images/misc_dectapes/DEC-S8-ORTSA-C-UC2.tu56;blk=290,10,0;to=auto A code snippet from http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/os8_html/DX.12?act=file;fn=linctape-images/os8l/ds8-2nd-tape.linc;blk=184,80,0;to=auto / THE ROUTINE LINCDO CLEARS DF32 FLAGS TO ALLOW / A LINC DATA BREAK. IF A DIFFERENT DATA BREAK / DEVICE IS IN USE THE APPROPRIATE MODIFICATIONS / SHOULD BE MADE. (NOTE BY CLEARY) LINCDO, 0 /EXECUTE A LINC PROGRAM DCMA /CLEAR ANY DATA BREAK FLAGS DCEA /THESE ARE FOR DF32 TAD (LINPRO) ISSP /SET UP LINC PC CLA TAD (10) ICON /SELECT LINC TAD (2) ICON /START LINC NOP TAD (-1) ICON /DESELECT LINC CLA JMP I LINCDO ... shows the use of DMCA and DCEA to clear a disk, rather than DEAL. Not exactly what you were looking for, but perhaps someone else has the sources at their fingertips (I'm behind a restrictive firewall at the moment, so my searching is somewhat limited). As I mentioned earlier, I've only done some basic DF32 twiddling from a PDP-8/i to prove that the interface mostly worked (and to diagnose my repairs of a smoked rotation sensor board). I've never had the joy of an 8K machine + DF32s, so I've never had an OS to explore them. -ethan From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Apr 4 13:21:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 References: Message-ID: <3E8DDB10.2040401@gifford.co.uk> Witchy wrote: > Original one right down to the cassette port and built-in Microsloth > BASIC-80, but it's the later 256K board not the 64K one in the first > version. It's also got a genuine Intel 8088, which is apparently surprising > since most later models used AMD chips. The video card is the colour model > with both CGA (or is it MDA?) and composite out. If it's got composite-out, it's a CGA. The socket is a phono socket (RCA connector). My machine has a genuine IBM EGA card, fully expanded to 256k with INMOS RAM chips. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Apr 4 13:28:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 References: Message-ID: <3E8DDCB0.10306@gifford.co.uk> Witchy wrote: > A surprise consignment arrived for me this morning - an IBM 5150 in not bad > condition complete with keyboard/monitor and a 5161 expansion box, spare > expansion card and 2 extender cables..... Just had a look at the images on the Binary Dinosaurs site, and I see that you have a blue, full-length card with an 8X305 on it. This is a bit-slice CPU chip, so I'm curious as to what this card is. Does anyone recognise it? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 4 13:33:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: new computers... Finally! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030404193040.45391.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Witchy wrote: > > I have an Amiga 500+ with an > > A520 adaptor. > > When i tuned it to my T.V. it just stays dark blue, but says > > there's a signal. Have you tried plugging into a monitor? Do you _have_ a compatible monitor (probably not if you are using it with a TV). It's not clear to me if the problem is with your CPU or with your A520. > > The animated hand thing doesn't even appear! Help! And I don't > > have the poster about the connections!!! The "hand" wasn't animated. It was a simple still picture of a hand holding a disk. Later ROMs (2.x) used an animated diskette inserting itself into a floppy drive. > If your screen stays blue you have a fault in one of the custom chips > (AGNUS, PAULA or DENISE) so it's repair time! I don't recall ever seeing blue. *Green* was the one you saw most often - typically caused by the Agnes chip working its way out of its socket (later units had a small spring-steel keeper over the top of the chip). Green meant that something was wrong with accessing CHIP RAM (*most* often a bad/loose Agnes, but not exclusively). The other common color was gray/white which just meant that the lowest level stuff worked, but it wasn't loading/running OS code. I have seen Red and Yellow, but they aren't very common. Black, of course, with no color shifts at all, means that nothing is happening (bad PSU, bad CPU, bad ROM...) > Also, if it's a 500+ you'll > have version 2 ROMs which have an animated floppy disk, not the old 1.3 > 'badly drawn hand'. That sounds right (I never had a 500+) Is is possible that the "blue" you are seeing isn't really a true "blue" (as in it's a black screen with the colors/brightness turned way up; or more of a deep blue, almost maroon, which could be the 2.0 background color with no disk image/text on it?) If it's a primary, saturated, bright blue (bluer than the desktop of a Windoze machine), then it might be a signal from the ROMs that something is wrong. A darker, muddy blue is probably something else. If, for example, the Denise chip is bad, or the external network that converts its 12-bit color bus to analog signals is bad, or the A520 is bad, perhaps it's a white screen with only the Blue component showing. Describe how the power LEDs flash - that tells a story, too. -ethan > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From spedraja at ono.com Fri Apr 4 13:37:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <012101c2fae1$338a9160$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> > Sergio, Hi :-) > Yes it CAN be attached. You'd have to use the GPIO interface and probably have to write you're own drivers. The GPIO interface is the nearest thing to the original interface (HP 98034 option 85 IIRC) for the 9885. I THINK I remember that HP did make an 9885 interface for the early 9000 200 series computers but I don't remember the details. The original interface for the 9885 is a 16 bit parallel interface, it is NOT SASI or SCSI. Great ! Thanks for the information. I shall try to send you one photo of the disk unit backside to see the connectors I told in my previous message. Thanks and Greetings With Best Regards Sergio From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 4 13:38:27 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Boards with an 8X305 CPU (was Re: IBM 5161) In-Reply-To: <3E8DDCB0.10306@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <20030404193456.92380.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Honniball wrote: > Just had a look at the images on the Binary Dinosaurs site, and I see > that you have a blue, full-length card with an 8X305 on it. This is > a bit-slice CPU chip, so I'm curious as to what this card is. Does > anyone recognise it? I don't know about _that_ card, but I have a full length card with an 8X305 chip on it, plus a 50-pin connector to, IIRC, a common-enough system interface for pre-DOS machines, and connectors for two hard disks. It came out of a Davong shoebox and is the (distantly related) ancestor to things like the Adaptec and OMTI SCSI<->ST-506 boards, but for 8080 and Z-80 machines. It was sold to me at the Hamvention as a SCSI shoebox. The seller was wrong. From eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com Fri Apr 4 14:09:00 2003 From: eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Boards with an 8X305 CPU (was Re: IBM 5161) In-Reply-To: <20030404193456.92380.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3E8DDCB0.10306@gifford.co.uk> <20030404193456.92380.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2502.4.20.168.238.1049486785.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> The 8X300 and 8X305 were commonly used in 5.25- and 8-inch hard drive controllers for microcomputers starting around 1980. Most of these were based on the Western Digital WD1000 design, the legacy of which can still be seen in today's ATA (IDE) drives. The 8X300 was a single-chip version of an earlier processor design by Scientific Micro Systems (SMS). The 8X305 is a slightly updated version of the 8X300. I'm not sure what the specific differences were. The 8x300/305 is AFAIK the only chip produced in a 50 pin DIP package, with 600 mil row spacing. ISTR that the 8x300 may have used I2L (integrated injection logic) rather than TTL. I2L offered some advantages at the time, but never really caught on. TI used it for some parts as well, such as the SBP9900, a bipolar version of the TMS9900. Eric From allain at panix.com Fri Apr 4 14:12:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: New Finds & question References: <3E8DC229.6C8B4C3D@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <004701c2fae6$04eda360$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > This morning I picked up some Dec stuff : Great haul! > ...which forks into 4 D25 connectors. This sounds like a possible updating of the QBus board CXY08 / M3119 and the cable BC19N which is in fact a 4x2 line Asynchronous Multiplexor. If you see model numbers like these printed on anything that would help to confirm it. FYI John A. From patrick at evocative.com Fri Apr 4 14:49:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304041819.KAA25322@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > Hi > I guess the next question is, does anyone have the > dumps of these chips or what the new mapping is?? > I suspect that there is some remapping of the memory > and some for the I/O. I don't know why it would take > 3 chips though. I'll have to dig through my stuff to > find a schematic. I may be able to figure it out from there. > Dwight Dwight, From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Apr 4 15:00:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply References: <9334852E-66B3-11D7-93D9-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> <3E8DC827.7090603@charter.net> Message-ID: <005201c2faec$2515b280$0400fea9@game> There are people on ebay selling the pram batteries cheap, I purchased 2 and had them delivered for less then you can get one ordered at radio shack. LEM doesnt have much going on with nubus machines, everybody has the OSX bug there anymore. And yes, macs do act wierd when the battery is low or dead.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Rice" To: Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:00 PM Subject: Re: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply > I have a fully functioning Power 100. The power supply won't start if > the pram battery is dead. It's the standard 3.6v 950mAH lithium cell > that 75% of all Mac's use. Rat Shack has them for around $10 or Fry's > has them for $6.00. It's a Tadiran TL-5151. Some Mac's you can crowbar > into starting without the battery by rapidly pressing the power on > button several times off and on, but the Power 100 isn't one of those. > > I'm working on my Mac clones this weekend, so I can check voltages and > pinouts. I adapted an ATX supply to my Daystar Genesis MP800. It has > an uptime of over 5 months as of this week. I've since picked up an > original Daystar/Magnetrol supply, but sine the 550watt ATX is still > cooking, I haven't installed it. > > You are right about the lack of response on the lem PowerComputing > list. Nobody want's to talk about the NuBus machines. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 4 15:25:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Hello, I am new to this list In-Reply-To: <20030403234650.9C4643DF2@xmxpita.excite.com> from "Tim" at Apr 03, 2003 06:46:50 PM Message-ID: <200304042123.h34LN0We026260@shell1.aracnet.com> > I should have said Hello before my first post. I just found out about > this list. It seems quite impressive and very useful. I know I will > get much use from it. Hopefully I can answer a question ever now and > then too. Welcome. Am I correct in assuming your area of interest is in DEC HW/SW, and more specifically PDP-11's? (At least I think I recognize your name). Zane From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Apr 4 15:50:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: DEC keyboard/mouse protocol In-Reply-To: <20030403185340.5023.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501c2faf3$e9150120$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Re: recent discussions > > Found this in section 14.38 of the VMS FAQ: > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_016.html > > The protocol definition for the old DIGITAL keyboard and > mouse interfaces is buried at the back of the QDSS section in > the old VAXstation II manual, specifically, in the back of > the VCB02 Video Subsystem Technical Manual (EK-104AA-TM). The > keyboard wiring and protocol is in appendix B, and occupies > circa 44 pages. The mouse is in appendix C, circa 12 pages. > > ... in case anyone wants to tackle a protocol converter. That manual can be found here: http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm If someone comes up with a KVM that can handle PC, VAX and Sun, I'm interested (as long as it's cheap to build :-) ) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Apr 4 15:59:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Power Computing 100 power supply In-Reply-To: <005201c2faec$2515b280$0400fea9@game> References: <9334852E-66B3-11D7-93D9-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> <3E8DC827.7090603@charter.net> <005201c2faec$2515b280$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <3E8DFF2D.50808@charter.net> They do have the OS-X bug rather bad. I have 10.2.4 running on one of my Daystar Genesis boxes with a Sonnet G4-800 card and a Tempo Trio ATA-100 card. Runs Jaguar very respectably. Everything else is MacOS 6.x-9.x. Since I love NeXT cubes so much, I had to try Jaguar. TeoZ wrote: >There are people on ebay selling the pram batteries cheap, I purchased 2 and >had them delivered for less then you can get one ordered at radio shack. >LEM doesnt have much going on with nubus machines, everybody has the OSX bug >there anymore. And yes, macs do act wierd when the battery is low or dead.. From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Apr 4 16:52:01 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Free (ish) tape & hard drive Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFD6A@lif015.vtmerlin.com> I have surplus to requirements the following.. FACIT tape drive Model No. 4203 Prod. No. 9281 01 09 .. and .. AMPEX hard drive PYXIS 13 Part No. 3315422-01 Both are of unknown status having been stored in a garage for at least a decade and both show some signs of having been damp at some time (some corrosion). Both are heavy so will cost to post. Anyone interested in these please contact me off list. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From evan947 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 4 17:18:01 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Handheld Computer organizer available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030404231539.3952.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I'm very interested in this. Can you give me an idea of how much you're looking for and where you're located (re: shipping)? --- Norm & Beth Anheier wrote: > I have this cool little Psion Organizer II, model XP > available. It's a 6800 > processor powered handheld computer. I have the COM > link cable and a 32K > Datapak. It appears to be functional. It was made > in the UK. Someone out > there probably knows the history of this little > device. > > Best offer, please send zip code for shipping > costing and I prefer Paypal. > > Thanks Norm From evan947 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 4 17:31:00 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: D'oh! -- Re: Handheld Computer organizer available In-Reply-To: <20030404231539.3952.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030404232908.76938.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry everyone, one of these days I'll get the hang of how to reply off-list. --- evan wrote: > Hi, I'm very interested in this. Can you give me an > idea of how much you're looking for and where you're > located (re: shipping)? > > --- Norm & Beth Anheier wrote: > > I have this cool little Psion Organizer II, model > XP > > available. It's a 6800 > > processor powered handheld computer. I have the > COM > > link cable and a 32K > > Datapak. It appears to be functional. It was > made > > in the UK. Someone out > > there probably knows the history of this little > > device. > > > > Best offer, please send zip code for shipping > > costing and I prefer Paypal. > > > > Thanks Norm From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Fri Apr 4 17:53:00 2003 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (Benjamin Gardiner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: The Gospel according to ARD: In-Reply-To: <20030401024226.GB50772@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20030401024226.GB50772@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3E8D8696.9010904@carnagevisors.net> Trust me about getting electrocuted across the arms isnt fun.. I used to work as an electrician (mainly doing data & communications) and I got 415 Volts across the arms, from a faulty telecoms board, needless to say it was not fun ;) it stopped my heart, burnt my arms, and blew a piece of bone out of the bottom of my hand... Luckly, my co worker, knew how to get me off the board, and keep me going till the ambulance arived, and other than a scar on my hand now 7 years later I am fine.... Benjamin -- one you lock the target two you bait the line three you slowly spread the net and four you catch the man Front 242 Headhunter From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 4 18:37:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Apr 2, 3 09:53:08 am Message-ID: > > The ibm 5161 expansion box was designed for use with > > the ibm pc. > > And presumably *only* the PC, ie not the XT. It is documented as working (by IBM) on the XT and PortablePC... > Not that I've found, just an 8-slot backplane which immediately loses a slot Yes, that's what I'd expect. It's almost a totally passive backplane, but there's a clock generator chip + crystal to generate the 14MHz 'osc' signal (which is not taken from the main PC)_ > because one of them must be occupied by the receiving end of the expander > interface that has to go in the 5150. There might be a BIOS in that > interface though, I didn't really check that. The 5161 has a hard drive There isn't... > controller card in it as well as a Seagate monster that's probably only 5 or > 10 meg. Yep... > > > the card that connects to the ribbon cables that come > > from the exp box goes into one of the pc's card slots. > > No ribbon cables, just an interface cable that's thicker than my thumb! That's what all my expansion units have too... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 4 18:39:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Apr 2, 3 10:07:23 am Message-ID: > > That's the original IBM PC, yes? What video card do you have? > > Original one right down to the cassette port and built-in Microsloth > BASIC-80, but it's the later 256K board not the 64K one in the first Actually, all genuine PCs, PC/XTs, PortablePCs, PC/ATs and PCjrs have the ROM BASIC... > version. It's also got a genuine Intel 8088, which is apparently surprising > since most later models used AMD chips. The video card is the colour model > with both CGA (or is it MDA?) and composite out. That's the CGA card (colour graphics adapter). The MDA is a mono text-only card, and has DE9 (video) and DB25 (printer) connectors on the bracket. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 4 18:39:06 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Apr 2, 3 11:08:15 am Message-ID: > Reading some websites yesterday there was also a bug in early versions of > the BIOS that meant certain slots in the expander couldn't be used at > particular ROM addresses, which must've made installing new cards a fun task > if you didn't know that :) Impossible!... All the slots in the expansion unit are the same (they're bussed pin-pin). There is no way that some cards will work in some slots and not others. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 4 18:39:11 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit In-Reply-To: <03f501c2f957$210a7680$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> from "SPC" at Apr 2, 3 10:33:32 pm Message-ID: > Hello. Somebody knows if one HP9885 8" floppy unit can be attached to one > HP- > 9000/380 ? The unit came with one 50-pin SCSI or SASI type connector, and > one > 37-pin connector. The DD50 is not SCSI (or SASI). It's an HP 16 bit interface, and was originally connected to something like a 98032 Opt 085 (GPIO interface with the right jumpers and cable) in a 9825/9835/9845 machine. I guess it can be used with other GPIO-like interfaces (but be warned it uses features of the 98032, like DMA transfers and the register select outputs, that may not be available on other GPIOs). The DC37 is the 'raw' drive bus (similar to an SA800 interface) and is used to hang 'slave' drives off the controller in this unit. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 4 18:39:15 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Rigney" at Apr 3, 3 05:10:07 pm Message-ID: > > I have, of course, dumps of the 2 proms (one is 32*8, the other 256*4) in > > my Z90. They're a lot less 'unobtainium' than many chips I deal with!. > > That's good news, because I have a few CPU boards I'd like to upgrade... so, > modern equivalent blanks are available? I haven't ripped labels off of any > of them to see what they really are. They _were_ standard PROMs, but I think that blanks are going to be rather hard to find now. There must be something that can be kludged in, though. > > > > Tony, out of curiousity, what are your versions of the various PROMs and > > > EPROMs at U516, 517, 518, and 520 on your Z90? > > > > That would involve getting to the Z90, which is not going to be > > trivial.... > > LOL! Sure, just curious. I want to confirm my suspicions that this '89 I'm > using has been upgraded to the equivalent of your '90, but I'll take it on > faith. If I can get that soft-sectored controller going, then it's > equivalent enough for me. But hey, wasn't this the thread where two days > ago, everyone was talking about how easy it was to open cases and build > cables? ;-) If I could get to the machine, it would be trivial to pull the boards (I've taken this machine totally apart in the past, and can remember how to do it). The problem is that there's a lot of stuff between me and the Z90... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 4 18:39:20 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Thanks - was Re: Cool calculator In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Apr 3, 3 10:10:56 pm Message-ID: > This reminds me that just the other day I saw a calculator in a > thrift, IIRC, that carried the message to remove the batteries > if you were going to run it on the wallwart for more than four > hours to avoid over heating the alkaline cells. Sounds like a > similar problem? I have a couple of 4-function Commodore calculators that have a warning on the back to 'unsnap and remove the battery if using the PSU' (or words to that effect). Decimo VATman calculators (a popular 1970s model in the UK, so called because it had a % key, and was useful for working out VAT (sales tax)) have a 3 position power switch. Off, On, and Charge. There's a warning not to use the Charge position unless you fit NiCds... Casio got it right (for once). Their machines took a special NiCd battery pack consisting of 2 AA cells in a plastic holder. When it was inserted, a peg on the plastic holder closed a switch in the battery compartment, enabling the charger circuitry. Of course hackers (like me), soldered a jumper across the switch and put normal AA NiCd cells in (a pair of those was a lot chaaper then the battery pack), but we can't blame the manufacturer for that. HP and TI often designed machines to run off the (special) rechargeable NiCd pack only. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 4 18:39:25 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: breathing life into old chips In-Reply-To: <20030404090456.95523.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Apr 4, 3 10:04:56 am Message-ID: > hi, > > this is sort of off-topic as it applies to my TV and not a computer, but I bet > some of the folks here can offer advice... :) > > the microcontroller in the set seems to have developed a fault which only > appears when the set's warm. Tracking down a replacement seems to be easier Possible. I assume you've checked for dry joints, that the IC's power supply is good (check decoupling caps too), that the reset line is right, and that the crystal is good (a suprising number of crystals fail in TVs...) > said than done as the chip was obviously discontinued a while back (and then > I'd have to worry about the on-board ROM anyway). Have you tried a TV spares place? You might still be able to get the original part, correctly programmed. > > At the moment though there's no heatsink on the chip - if I do stick a heatsink > on it in the hope that it keeps it cool enough to operate, is it still likely > to fail at a later date anyway? Once a chip's started to exhibit heat-related In my experience it will get worse :-( -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 4 18:39:29 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304041819.KAA25322@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Apr 4, 3 10:19:40 am Message-ID: > Hi > I guess the next question is, does anyone have the > dumps of these chips or what the new mapping is?? I have dumps of all the programmed chips in my Z90... > I suspect that there is some remapping of the memory > and some for the I/O. I don't know why it would take > 3 chips though. I'll have to dig through my stuff to AFAIK, the 3 chips involved are the monitor ROM (Z80 code), the memory mapping PROM and the I/O mapping PROM. > >2) Connect a jumper from the middle pin of U503 to pin 17 of P509 I believe that's the mod I mentioned which connects an output port line to the input on the memory mapping PROM, thus allowing software selection of HDOS (ROM at location 0) or CP/M (RAM at location 0) memory maps. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 4 18:39:35 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Rigney" at Apr 4, 3 12:46:54 pm Message-ID: > Tony, if you have dumps of U516 and U517, would you mind making those > available? Also, I have several revisions of each of these that I'd like to Sure, I'll e-mail them to you... > dump. How did you dump them? FWIW all of the boards I have have 444-66 The normal way. Open case, pull the chip, put it in the PROM programmer... > (U517) and 444-83 (U516) and 444-61 (U550), except one spare, which is > missing U517 and has U516=444-41 and U550=444-43. > > Dwight, Tony may have dumps of U518 (the MTR EPROM) as well, but if not, I I do, it's MTR-90, probably the 40 track-only version, though. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 4 18:43:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: The Gospel according to ARD: In-Reply-To: <3E8D8696.9010904@carnagevisors.net> from "Benjamin Gardiner" at Apr 4, 3 11:20:22 pm Message-ID: > Trust me about getting electrocuted across the arms isnt fun.. I can well believe it. 240V between fingers on one hand isn't _fun_ either... A true story to show that all of us can be clueless. I spent a weekend at home repairing a VT100 PSU. This is a switch-mode device. and quite a bit of the circuitry is not isolated from the power line. I took a lot of care, and amazingly got it working without electrocuting myself. Then I went into work. There was a little +/-15V linear PSU that was malfunctioning, so I decided to have a go a fixing it. A nice, simple, PSU with almost all the circuitry on the output side of the transformer. Took it apart, quickly traced the fault, soldered in a new pass transistor. Seemed to work fine, so I started to put it back together. What a pity I forgot to uplug it from the mains. As I picked up the rear panel to put it back in place, my fingers reached round the edge of it and came into contact with the tags on the mains fuseholder. So I had mains between said fingers and the rest of my hand holding the grounded panel. Hurt like hell I can tell you! -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 4 19:51:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit In-Reply-To: <012101c2fae1$338a9160$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:34 PM 4/4/03 +0200, you wrote: >> Sergio, > >Hi :-) > >> Yes it CAN be attached. You'd have to use the GPIO interface and >probably have to write you're own drivers. The GPIO interface is the nearest >thing to the original interface (HP 98034 option 85 IIRC) for the 9885. I >THINK I remember that HP did make an 9885 interface for the early 9000 200 >series computers but I don't remember the details. The original interface >for the 9885 is a 16 bit parallel interface, it is NOT SASI or SCSI. > >Great ! >Thanks for the information. I shall try to send you one photo of the disk >unit backside >to see the connectors I told in my previous message. Thanks for the offer but I know what it looks like. I have several 9885 units. That "SCSI" connector is the standard connector that HP uses for GPIO. Joe > >Thanks and Greetings >With Best Regards >Sergio From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Apr 4 20:11:01 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Free (ish) tape drive & hard drive Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DB2B@lif015.vtmerlin.com> Further information .. The FACIT tape drive can be used an a PDP 11/34, see .. www.tno.nl/instit/fel/museum/computer/en/comp783E.html The AMPEX hard drive is 10MB, ST506 interface, full height 5.25" Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Apr 4 20:11:11 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: breathing life into old chips In-Reply-To: <20030404090456.95523.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030405020544.OGAY20168.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > hi, > > (the chip in question is a ST9293J9B1/AEL for the record, but no infomation > appears to exist on the web or on ST's site for it; wish I could get pin-outs > to check that it is the chip and not surrounding circuitry that's failing) What is this TV model & brand? FYI: Most TV shops has scraps laying around waiting for a donor to fix yours. I know of this because I work for a tv/projo/video camera etc. shop. I mainly work on projos and TVs. Sharp is notorious for failing micros/jungle ICs. Cheers, Wizard > > cheers! > > Jules > For a better Internet experience > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 4 20:16:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Need docs for Microsoft Premium Softcard //e Message-ID: Sigh. I am hoping someone has the docs to the Microsoft Premium Softcard //e. This is a nice Z80 card for the Apple //e that allows one to run CP/M. Specifically, I need to know how MS assigned the serial card. I am trying to use PIP to copy a file out to the serial port. Barring that, I need to know if the utility program called APDOS that comes on the master system disk can copy files *from* CP/M *to* Apple DOS. As far as I can tell, it seems you can only copy from Apple DOS to CP/M. Lastly, if anyone with knowledge of utilities that allowed one to transfer CP/M files to Apple DOS can inform me of such, I would really appreciate it. I have no idea where my manual for this went :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 4 20:20:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Need IRIS Antivirus software ($$$) Message-ID: This is a follow-up to a message I posted on Monday. I am looking for some early (circa 1990) antivirus software made by a company called Iris (maybe spelled "iRiS"). This may have gone under the names of "Virus-Free", "Antivirus" and "Antivirus Plus" (sometimes in combination with the company name "IRIS"). The software was distributed by Iris and the software apparently written by Computers of Israel. The iRiS software was included in the system software that came with an Arche computer of the same vintage (1989-1990). It is the software that I am really after but the computer also has some use. If you tried contacting me about this but had your message bounce it was because I was moving my server around. Sorry. Please try again. I have posted bounties of $200 for the computer and $100 for the software. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 4 21:56:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Soroc terminal/Northstar DOS wanted Message-ID: See below and respond to the original sender. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:17:39 -0800 From: Philip Baily To: vcf@siconic.com Subject: VCF Feedback! Do you know of anyone with a SOROC IQ 120 Terminal for sale? (I can offer $100.00+ for it if is in good working condition.) Also, I am looking for a copy of Northstar DOS / BASIC to run my NS Horizon computer. Do you know of anyone who might be able to help me get a copy? Many thanks, Phil Baily -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com Fri Apr 4 22:05:01 2003 From: eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Need docs for Microsoft Premium Softcard //e In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2406.4.20.168.238.1049515363.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote > Barring that, > I need to know if the utility program called APDOS that comes on the > master system disk can copy files *from* CP/M *to* Apple DOS. As far as > I can tell, it seems you can only copy from Apple DOS to CP/M. I don't think they supplied a utility to do that. If I recall correctly, the documentation gave instructions for loading a file into a region of RAM that would be unaffected by booting Apple DOS, then BSAVEing the file from DOS. Pretty clunky. I've got the docs for the original Softcard. I think it's the same as the Premium Softcard //e, but I'm not completely certain. Eric From charlesmorris at direcway.com Fri Apr 4 22:43:00 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:49 2005 Subject: Interesting 8/L problem (more than you want to know about switching transistors) Message-ID: I was sending blocks of data to and from my DF32x4 emulator when I noticed that Bit 5 was always writing a zero to the disk - turned out to be a bad bus driver (M623 in slot D28) and I found a short from collector to emitter of the output switching transistor. After destroying the transistor removing it, I found out the clamping diode was the actual shorted part :^P so after replacing it with a 1N4148, I grabbed the nearest 2N3904 switching transistor and put it in. Guess what - Bit 5 still didn't work, although it was now changing states! To make a long story short, I found that the rise time of a 2N3904 is reasonably fast (around 50 nS) but the storage time in the circuit DEC used (a 7402 NOR gate driving the transistor base through 390 ohms) is on the order of 500 nS. (Once a bipolar transistor is turned on, there is a significant time required to extract the charges from the base so it will turn off, especially if a negative drive voltage is not available). Although the 7402 output waveform was square, this particular transistor base voltage was dropping much more slowly than any of the others; I could see on the scope that this made the BMB5 output change from 0 to +5 volts AFTER my disk circuit wrote the data into the NVRAM! Some research through the data books showed that a 2N5769, for example, would have been a much better replacement, with a storage time spec of 13 nS. Fortunately, after a little experimenting with "peaking" capacitors across the 390 ohm resistor, an 820 pF gave a sufficiently fast turn-on and turn-off with the 2N3904. So the object lesson here is that all switching transistors are not created equal, even in 1960's technology! Naturally since the DEC part numbers are no longer available, some thought is needed before just deciding on PNP or NPN... -Charles (Relearning long-dormant EE skills!) From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Apr 4 23:07:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: Available: Livingston PortMaster Internetwork Router. Message-ID: This was heading out towards the dumpster today, so I grabbed it. From what our network admin told me, this router is from the early 1990s. It looks like Livingston made several varieties of these plain gray boxes. The identifying markings on this one are very sparse, so I can't provide much in the way of info about /exactly/ which model this is. Dimensions are 3.2" x 16.8" x 11.5" and it weighs around 12 lbs. It has a DB-25F console/diag port. It has another DB-25F port that's switchable between RS-232 and V.35 (so, presumably, you could hook up a slower serial device or a T1/E1 device to this). And then it has a choice of RJ-45, BNC, or AUI ethernet port. The only identifying marking of note apart from the "PortMaster Internetwork Router" on the front is small label which reads "Model: IRX S/N: 1A13813". Some info related to the Livingston and their products can be found here: . This one does power up and I was able to get a login prompt by connecting a terminal to the diag port with a null modem cable at 9600 8-N-1. The login and password are unknown. The condition of it is also unknown, though it's believed to have been working when it was taken out of service a number of years ago. Available to the first taker for US$2 + shipping to anywhere in the US or Canada from zip code 90232. It won't be until sometime next week that I'll have the time to pack, estimate shipping, and send this out. -brian. From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Fri Apr 4 23:20:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: Hello, I am new to this list In-Reply-To: <20030403234650.9C4643DF2@xmxpita.excite.com> References: <20030403234650.9C4643DF2@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <20030405051757.2C8592FE06@www.fastmail.fm> Well, let me be the frist so say "hello" & welcome aboard! Yes, you'll like this place, it can get intresting, some of the discussions get a little off on a tangent, but aside from that, I've learned a whole bunch of info I never would have known. On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:46:50 -0500 (EST), "Tim" said: > I should have said Hello before my first post. I just found out about > this list. It seems quite impressive and very useful. I know I will get > much use from it. Hopefully I can answer a question ever now and then > too. > Tim Radde > > _______________________________________________ > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 4 23:52:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: Need docs for Microsoft Premium Softcard //e In-Reply-To: <2406.4.20.168.238.1049515363.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > I don't think they supplied a utility to do that. If I recall correctly, Well, the utility called APDOS that I have on my CP/M master is written by Mycroft Labs. I don't know if it was originally there but it is on my original Premium Softcard //e master diskette. > the documentation gave instructions for loading a file into a region > of RAM that would be unaffected by booting Apple DOS, then BSAVEing > the file from DOS. Pretty clunky. Totally cheesy. I have a huge file I need to transfer and it would take multiple reboots. But if this is the only way then what the hey. > I've got the docs for the original Softcard. I think it's the same > as the Premium Softcard //e, but I'm not completely certain. It's the documentation for MS' implementation of PIP and STAT that I'm after. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Apr 5 00:45:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: New Finds & question References: <3E8DC229.6C8B4C3D@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <051901c2fb3e$7fc6bbf0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed" To: "cctalk" Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 11:34 AM Subject: New Finds & question > Hello all, > > This morning I picked up some Dec stuff : > > 1x Alpha 400/166 + 1 Dec storage tower running Unix > 1x Alpha 400/166 + 1 Dec storage tower running NT > 1 Infotower/infoserver 1000 with 5 CD-Rom's > 1 Vax 4000/100 > > Thanks, > > Ed > > -- > The Wanderer | Politici zijn onbetrouwbaar > quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers > http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. > Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Wie mij te na komt zal het weten. > '97 TL1000S | I'm jealous! I've been on the trail of an Infotower w/CDRoms for a while and it was disassembled before I could get it. What a waste... You made a nice haul! Stuart Johnson From spedraja at ono.com Sat Apr 5 01:51:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Hi again, Joe: > Thanks for the offer but I know what it looks like. I have several 9885 units. That "SCSI" connector is the standard connector that HP uses for GPIO. Ok :-) Then it's possible you could give me some additional help. My HP9000 is one 380 model. It comes with one HP-IB standard connector (short centronics) and one "wide" HP-IB connector of SCSI type. Do you if one of these connectors is GPIO ? Do I need one additional board to manage GPIO devices (with independence of the specific driver problem you told me in a previous message ? Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Apr 5 05:33:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "SPC" To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 2:48 AM Subject: Re: HP9885 8" floppy unit > Then it's possible you could give me some additional help. My HP9000 is one > 380 > model. It comes with one HP-IB standard connector (short centronics) and one > "wide" HP-IB connector of SCSI type. Do you if one of these connectors is > GPIO ? > Do I need one additional board to manage GPIO devices (with independence of > the > specific driver problem you told me in a previous message ? Unless an optional board is installed, the wide Centronics-like connector is SCSI. It's pretty easy to tell if it's in there, it lives on a set of standoffs right behind the connector, and the ribbon cable moves from the mail board to it. BTW, a 380 can be upgraded to a 385 (33 MHz) with a osc change (socketed!) and a jumper moved. The '040 in mine has no trouble running at 33MHz, and I just picked up 16MB of RAM for it (Thanks, Jim!). > > Thanks and Greetings > Best Regards > Sergio Bob From spedraja at ono.com Sat Apr 5 06:34:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <01a001c2fb6f$60cbb620$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Hello, Robert: > Unless an optional board is installed, the wide Centronics-like connector is > SCSI. It's pretty easy to tell if it's in there, it lives on a set of > standoffs right behind the connector, and the ribbon cable moves from the > mail board to it. Mmm.. yes, below the connector appears a legend "SCSI-HP IB". My doubts come from this. > BTW, a 380 can be upgraded to a 385 (33 MHz) with a osc change (socketed!) > and a jumper moved. The '040 in mine has no trouble running at 33MHz, and I > just picked up 16MB of RAM for it (Thanks, Jim!). Is good to know it :-) But, being practical, I approach to ask you about another two matters: * What model of graphic screen can I use with the 380 ? I should like to know about one (or more) model with all its identificacion data to search it in eBay or some reseller. * What model of serial terminal or screen can I use with the 380 to plug into the RS-232 port of this computer ? Same than previous. (Of course I accept all reasonable offer from somebody in Europe. This includes one GPIO board) Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Apr 5 07:39:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> <01a001c2fb6f$60cbb620$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <004801c2fb78$abd31560$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "SPC" To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 7:32 AM Subject: Re: HP9885 8" floppy unit > Hello, Robert: Hi! > * What model of graphic screen can I use with the 380 ? I should like to > know > about one (or more) model with all its identificacion data to search it in > eBay > or some reseller. My 380 has an A1416A Kathmandu (a.k.a. Color VRX) (1280x1024 @ 60 hz, 8 bits, DIO-II). It has 3 BNC sync on green output, you'll need either an adapter to a VGA monitor or a monitor with 3 BNC. > * What model of serial terminal or screen can I use with the 380 to plug > into > the RS-232 port of this computer ? Same than previous. Any null-modem cable to a peasea set to 9600,8N1 should work. Note, however, that the serial console (vs the graphics head/HIL keyboard) is selected by a firmware command. The commands can be entered blindly without a monitor attached, but a HP-HIL keyboard *MUST* be used if it is not set to a serial console already. You can find some more info on the page for the hp300 port of NetBSD, http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hp300, and Jim Conrad may have some parts avaliable, you can find his original post in the classiccmp archives, http://www.classiccmp.org. > > (Of course I accept all reasonable offer from somebody in Europe. This > includes > one GPIO board) How many RAM boards are installed? > > Thanks and Greetings > Best Regards > Sergio Bob From spedraja at ono.com Sat Apr 5 09:10:01 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> <01a001c2fb6f$60cbb620$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004801c2fb78$abd31560$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <01ba01c2fb85$2c848660$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> > My 380 has an A1416A Kathmandu (a.k.a. Color VRX) (1280x1024 @ 60 hz, 8 > bits, DIO-II). It has 3 BNC sync on green output, you'll need either an > adapter to a VGA monitor or a monitor with 3 BNC. Where can I locate one adapter to a VGA monitor ? I don't have actually one 3 BNC connectors monitor. > Any null-modem cable to a peasea set to 9600,8N1 should work. Note, > however, that the serial console (vs the graphics head/HIL keyboard) is > selected by a firmware command. The commands can be entered blindly without > a monitor attached, but a HP-HIL keyboard *MUST* be used if it is not set to > a serial console already. Aha. If I understand you, I need to do the swap with one HP-HIL keyboard. Can I use the serial console for input/output once I do the swap, or I must use ever the HP-HIL keyboard ? Just by the way... What's about one HP-IB terminal ? > You can find some more info on the page for the hp300 port of NetBSD, > http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hp300, and Jim Conrad may have some parts > avaliable, you can find his original post in the classiccmp archives, > http://www.classiccmp.org. I shall try to locate his address, of course. > > (Of course I accept all reasonable offer from somebody in Europe. This > > includes > > one GPIO board) > > How many RAM boards are installed? Good question. Let me check the CPU a moment... One A1416A board One HP 98574 board with... TWO memory chips Just by the way... What is the 34 connector in the HP 98574 board ? Maybe a floppy connector ? Same for one EIGHT dip-switches bank in the A1416A board. Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio From allain at panix.com Sat Apr 5 09:31:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> <01a001c2fb6f$60cbb620$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004801c2fb78$abd31560$7d00a8c0@george> <01ba01c2fb85$2c848660$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <00e301c2fb87$da64efc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > It has 3 BNC sync on green output, you'll need either an > adapter to a VGA monitor or a monitor with 3 BNC. I had this problem a while back, and wired up my own cable. The simplest solution yet found (suggested on this list) is to combine an HD15male/BNC cable and a HD15female/HD15female gender changer. A cable like this in a single piece I have not yet found. BTW, anybody know the signals on _HD26_ video? John A. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 5 11:00:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit In-Reply-To: <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030405114622.0f17690a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:48 AM 4/5/03 +0200, you wrote: >Hi again, Joe: > >> Thanks for the offer but I know what it looks like. I have several 9885 >units. That "SCSI" connector is the standard connector that HP uses for >GPIO. > >Ok :-) >Then it's possible you could give me some additional help. My HP9000 is one >380 >model. It comes with one HP-IB standard connector (short centronics) and one >"wide" HP-IB connector of SCSI type. Do you if one of these connectors is >GPIO ? I don't have a 380 any more so I'll tell you aas best as I remember. If the wide 50 pin port is built into the machine it's probably a serial port. A lot of the HP's had those built in. If it's on a card then it may be GPIO but if so it should be clearly marked as much. >Do I need one additional board to manage GPIO devices (with independence of >the >specific driver problem you told me in a previous message ? If the port on your machine is GPIO and you are running HP BASIC then you don't need anything to manage it except for the binary driver file. If you do a LIST BIN. It will tell you all of the driver files that are loaded. I'm guessing that there's a good chance that you're not running BASIC on a 380. If you're not, then let me know what you're running and I'll try to find out if you need a driver and what it's name is. Let me explain further. If you are running BASIC and have the necessary BIN file loaded then you can control the GPIO port much like you'd control an Intel 8255. You can access it's internal registers, set each I/O line as 0 or 1 for logic true, st each as input, output or both. You can also set characteristics for the hand shaking lines and interrupts. But you still won't have any high level DOS type commands to access the disk drive (no read, write, save, load commands). I'm not sure but there MAY be a BIN file that you can load that may give you those commands. Bt even if you can do that, you'll still need to figure out the connectiosn between the GPIO interface and the 9885. Can I ask why you're trying to use a 9885? A 9895 has a HP-IB interface and would be a lot easier to use. And it has a lot higher capacity. Joe > >Thanks and Greetings >Best Regards >Sergio From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 5 11:00:38 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit In-Reply-To: <01ba01c2fb85$2c848660$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> <01a001c2fb6f$60cbb620$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004801c2fb78$abd31560$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030405120431.4337f56e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:08 PM 4/5/03 +0200, you wrote: >> My 380 has an A1416A Kathmandu (a.k.a. Color VRX) (1280x1024 @ 60 hz, 8 >> bits, DIO-II). It has 3 BNC sync on green output, you'll need either an >> adapter to a VGA monitor or a monitor with 3 BNC. > >Where can I locate one adapter to a VGA monitor ? I don't have actually one >3 BNC >connectors monitor. > >> Any null-modem cable to a peasea set to 9600,8N1 should work. Note, >> however, that the serial console (vs the graphics head/HIL keyboard) is >> selected by a firmware command. The commands can be entered blindly >without >> a monitor attached, but a HP-HIL keyboard *MUST* be used if it is not set >to >> a serial console already. > >Aha. If I understand you, I need to do the swap with one HP-HIL keyboard. >Can I use the serial console for input/output once I do the swap, or I must >use ever the HP-HIL keyboard ? > >Just by the way... What's about one HP-IB terminal ? I've never heard of one. Does anyone make one? I'm pretty sure all of HP's are RS-232. > >> You can find some more info on the page for the hp300 port of NetBSD, >> http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hp300, and Jim Conrad may have some parts >> avaliable, you can find his original post in the classiccmp archives, >> http://www.classiccmp.org. > >I shall try to locate his address, of course. > >> > (Of course I accept all reasonable offer from somebody in Europe. This >> > includes >> > one GPIO board) >> >> How many RAM boards are installed? > >Good question. Let me check the CPU a moment... > >One A1416A board >One HP 98574 board with... TWO memory chips > >Just by the way... What is the 34 connector in the HP 98574 board ? >Maybe a floppy connector ? I don't have a HP catalog any more so I'm not sure what a 98574 is but if it's a video card then the connector is probably for a daughter baord with more video RAM. That's pretty common on the HPs. I DOUBT that it's for a floppy drive even if it's not on the video card. Joe >Same for one EIGHT dip-switches bank in the A1416A board. > >Thanks and Greetings >Best Regards >Sergio From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 5 11:00:43 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit In-Reply-To: <01a001c2fb6f$60cbb620$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030405115955.483fd4f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:32 PM 4/5/03 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, Robert: > >> Unless an optional board is installed, the wide Centronics-like connector >is >> SCSI. It's pretty easy to tell if it's in there, it lives on a set of >> standoffs right behind the connector, and the ribbon cable moves from the >> mail board to it. > >Mmm.. yes, below the connector appears a legend "SCSI-HP IB". >My doubts come from this. > >> BTW, a 380 can be upgraded to a 385 (33 MHz) with a osc change (socketed!) >> and a jumper moved. The '040 in mine has no trouble running at 33MHz, and >I >> just picked up 16MB of RAM for it (Thanks, Jim!). > >Is good to know it :-) >But, being practical, I approach to ask you about another two matters: > >* What model of graphic screen can I use with the 380 ? There are a whole range of video/graphics options for the 300 series. Also on a lot of them you can also use a terminal connected to the serial port. One word of caution, you need the correct monitor to work with the card that you have. It's gets tricky trying to find both a monitor and video card that work together. I'm currently using an ADC super VGA monitor that has both the VGA port and BNC ports. IIRC it works with both the 98543 and 98547 video cards. I have a whole slew of HP viedo cards and monitors around but I'm trying to get away from having to have a special monitor for each computer. I should like to >know >about one (or more) model with all its identificacion data to search it in >eBay >or some reseller. >* What model of serial terminal or screen can I use with the 380 to plug >into >the RS-232 port of this computer ? Same than previous. > >(Of course I accept all reasonable offer from somebody in Europe. This >includes >one GPIO board) I'm confused, are you looking for a GPIO card or are you selling one? I can send you one if you need it. But it fits the DIO slot as used on the 9000 200 series and some of the 300 series. You're 380 has DIO-II slots which are wider. It MAY have the adapter that converts the DIO-II to DIO slots but that's something that you need to check on. Besides the difference in width, the two cards use different connectors. The 200 series cards have card edge connectors and the DIO-II cards have VME type connector. I think some people also call these Euro connectors. Joe > >Thanks and Greetings >Best Regards >Sergio From quapla at xs4all.nl Sat Apr 5 12:38:00 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: New Finds & question References: <3E8DC229.6C8B4C3D@xs4all.nl> <004701c2fae6$04eda360$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3E8F21FF.156AC22C@xs4all.nl> John Allain wrote: > > > This morning I picked up some Dec stuff : > > Great haul! > > > ...which forks into 4 D25 connectors. > > This sounds like a possible updating of the QBus board > CXY08 / M3119 and the cable BC19N which is in fact a > 4x2 line Asynchronous Multiplexor. If you see model > numbers like these printed on anything that would help to > confirm it. FYI > > John A. Well, it turned out to be a DHW42-CA option according to the guide I was able to put my hands on. The machine has two of these so I should be able to hook up 8 additional terminals. I also managed to get it booting and logging into it, turns out it belonged to a VAX cluster as several messages are passed along the screen. First order of business was to become system and modify the auhorisations so I could use a more easy to remember password. Authorize did do the trick of course, but boy, it has been a long time I used vms, must have been at least 10 years ago. Ed -- From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sat Apr 5 12:47:01 2003 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web Message-ID: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> In the hope that others can mirror them, I've put up over 1000 DEC manuals from the late 80's and early 90's up on the web. They hardly seem "classic" to me, since when I started collecting computers these items were brand new, but they *do* meet the 10-year definition! http://www.trailing-edge.com/~shoppa/dec94mds/ Again, if you do set up a publicly-accessible mirror for these I would appreciate it. The last thing I want to do is hoard stuff I've been sitting on for many years. Tim. From tradde at excite.com Sat Apr 5 13:06:00 2003 From: tradde at excite.com (Tim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: Thanks for the welcome Message-ID: <20030405190315.DE1CDB6BA@xmxpita.excite.com> Well, I am mainly into pdp-8 and pdp-11. Those were my first computers when in high school and college. But pdp-10s also interest me. Actually anything pdp related might get my interest. I have a pdp-8e, pdp-11/34a, and a pdp-11/84e. One day I hope to have a pdp-8i as that was the first computer I ever used. I am still working on getting all my systems fully operational. The 8e will have a dual rk05 drive connected to it. The 11/34a will have an RL02. I am not sure what the 11/84 will have as I have only had it a short while. Tim Radde >Well, let me be the frist so say "hello" & welcome aboard! Yes, >you'll >like this place, it can get intresting, some of the discussions get a >little off on a tangent, but aside from that, I've learned a whole >bunch of info I never would have known. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From spedraja at ono.com Sat Apr 5 13:06:54 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit - resume References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> <01a001c2fb6f$60cbb620$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004801c2fb78$abd31560$7d00a8c0@george> <3.0.6.16.20030405120431.4337f56e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <024001c2fba6$23ebe400$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Hi again. Well, doing a resume for my own control, and considering it of interest for everybody, I proceed to send it to the list, with the permission of the moderator. We speak about one HP9000/380 with this characteristics: > One A1416A board > One HP 98574 board with... TWO memory chips Actually, the machine don't have peripherals connected. I have actually one HP-IB Hard Disk, one HP-IB 5.25 floppy disk, one HP-IB streamer, and I have the opportunity to acquire one HP9885 8" floppy disk unit. This last device has couple of back connectors; one of 50 pin and another one of 37 pin. In appeareance, the HP9000/380 don't have this connectors available. The connector more similar to this needed to our purposes, like we shall see later, is one wide centronics connector with a legend above: "SCSI/ HS HP-IB". I don't have serial terminal, keyboard, mouse or graphic terminal. Said this, I have some questions about the machine and its peripherals. Here we go: CAN I ATTACH AND USE ONE HP9885 WITH ONE HP9000/380 ? Joe-> > Yes it CAN be attached. You'd have to use the GPIO interface > and probably have to write you're own drivers. The GPIO interface > is the nearest thing to the original interface (HP 98034 option 85 IIRC) > for the 9885. I THINK I remember that HP did make an 9885 interface > for the early 9000 200 series computers but I don't remember the details. > The original interface for the 9885 is a 16 bit parallel interface, > it is NOT SASI or SCSI. Tony-> > The DD50 is not SCSI (or SASI). It's an HP 16 bit interface, and was > originally connected to something like a 98032 Opt 085 (GPIO interface > with the right jumpers and cable) in a 9825/9835/9845 machine. I guess it > can be used with other GPIO-like interfaces (but be warned it uses > features of the 98032, like DMA transfers and the register select > outputs, that may not be available on other GPIOs). > The DC37 is the 'raw' drive bus (similar to an SA800 interface) and is > used to hang 'slave' drives off the controller in this unit. Joe-> > I have several 9885 units. That "SCSI" connector > is the standard connector that HP uses for GPIO. CAN BE ONE WIDE CENTRONICS CONNECTOR IN THE BACK OF THE HP9000/380 WITH THE LEGEND "SCSI/HS HP-IB" A GPIO PORT ? Robert-> > Unless an optional board is installed, the wide Centronics-like connector is > SCSI. It's pretty easy to tell if it's in there, it lives on a set of > standoffs right behind the connector, and the ribbon cable moves from the > mail board to it. Joe-> > I don't have a 380 any more so I'll tell you as best as I remember. > If the wide 50 pin port is built into the machine it's probably a serial port. > A lot of the HP's had those built in. If it's on a card then it may be GPIO > but if so it should be clearly marked as much. SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THE GPIO BOARD FOR THE HP9000 Joe-> > [...] But it fits the DIO slot as used on the 9000 200 series and some of the > 300 series. You're 380 has DIO-II slots which are wider. It MAY have > the adapter that converts the DIO-II to DIO slots but that's something > that you need to check on. > Besides the difference in width, the two cards use different connectors. > The 200 series cards have card edge connectors and the DIO-II cards > have VME type connector. I think some people also call these > Euro connectors. Joe-> > If the port on your machine is GPIO and you are running HP BASIC > then you don't need anything to manage it except for the binary driver file. > If you do a LIST BIN. It will tell you all of the driver files that are loaded. > I'm guessing that there's a good chance that you're not running BASIC > on a 380. If you're not, then let me know what you're running and I'll try > to find out if you need a driver and what it's name is. > Let me explain further. If you are running BASIC and have > the necessary BIN file loaded then you can control the GPIO port > much like you'd control an Intel 8255. You can access it's internal registers, > set each I/O line as 0 or 1 for logic true, st each as input, output or both. > You can also set characteristics for the hand shaking lines and interrupts. > But you still won't have any high level DOS type commands to access > the disk drive (no read, write, save, load commands). I'm not sure > but there MAY be a BIN file that you can load that may give you > those commands. Bt even if you can do that, you'll still need to figure out > the connectiosn between the GPIO interface and the 9885 HOW CAN I UPGRADE ONE HP9000/380 TO ONE HP9000/385 ? > BTW, a 380 can be upgraded to a 385 (33 MHz) with a osc change (socketed!) > and a jumper moved. The '040 in mine has no trouble running at 33MHz, and I > just picked up 16MB of RAM for it (Thanks, Jim!). HP9000/380 GRAPHIC MONITORS Robert -> > My 380 has an A1416A Kathmandu (a.k.a. Color VRX) (1280x1024 @ 60 hz, 8 > bits, DIO-II). It has 3 BNC sync on green output, you'll need either an > adapter to a VGA monitor or a monitor with 3 BNC. Joe -> > There are a whole range of video/graphics options for the 300 series. > Also on a lot of them you can also use a terminal connected to the serial port. > One word of caution, you need the correct monitor to work with the card that you have. > It's gets tricky trying to find both a monitor and video card that work together. > I'm currently using an ADC super VGA monitor that has both the VGA port and BNC ports. > IIRC it works with both the 98543 and 98547 video cards. I have a whole slew > of HP viedo cards and monitors around but I'm trying to get away from having > to have a special monitor for each computer. WHERE CAN I LOCATE ONE 3 BNC ADAPTER TO A VGA MONITOR ? John-> > I had this problem a while back, and wired up my own > cable. The simplest solution yet found (suggested on > this list) is to combine an HD15male/BNC cable and a > HD15female/HD15female gender changer. A cable like > this in a single piece I have not yet found. > BTW, anybody know the signals on _HD26_ video WHAT MODEL OF SERIAL TERMINAL CAN I USE WITH ONE HP9000/380 ? Robert-> > Any null-modem cable to a peasea set to 9600,8N1 should work. Note, > however, that the serial console (vs the graphics head/HIL keyboard) is > selected by a firmware command. The commands can be entered blindly > without a monitor attached, but a HP-HIL keyboard *MUST* be used > if it is not set to a serial console already. WHAT'S ABOUT ONE HP-IB TERMINAL ? Joe-> > I've never heard of one. Does anyone make one? > I'm pretty sure all of HP's are RS-232. WHERE CAN I FIND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ? Robert-> > You can find some more info on the page for the hp300 port of NetBSD, > http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hp300, and Jim Conrad may have some parts > avaliable, you can find his original post in the classiccmp archives, > http://www.classiccmp.org. WHAT IS ONE 34-PIN CONNECTOR IN THE HP 98574 BOARD ? MAYBE A FLOPPY CONNECTOR ? Joe -> > I don't have a HP catalog any more so I'm not sure what a 98574 is > but if it's a video card then the connector is probably for a daughter board > with more video RAM. That's pretty common on the HPs. I DOUBT > that it's for a floppy drive even if it's not on the video card. WHAT'S ABOUT ONE EIGHT DIP-SWITCHES BANK IN THE A1416A BOARD ? No answer yet :-) Best Regards Sergio From spedraja at ono.com Sat Apr 5 13:15:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030405114622.0f17690a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <024801c2fba7$5b7500e0$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> > Can I ask why you're trying to use a 9885? A 9895 has a HP-IB interface > and would be a lot easier to use. And it has a lot higher capacity. Because I don't have one. If you know where I can obtain one I should agree to know it :-) About the GPIO board, I am searching one, my reference to one offer was an inexact expression. I agree you offer about the board, but my380 has VME slots and not edge connectors. Finally, the HP 98574 is the CPU board of the 380. It combines in the same planar: * CPU * HP-HIL connector * HP-IB connector * Speaker Connector * Parallel connector * SCSI/ HS HP-IB connector * LAN BNC connector * LAN AUI connector ... plus the inner mysterious 34-pin connector :-) Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 5 13:23:00 2003 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3E8F3AB5.31963.2B40A385@localhost> amazing, what lovely quality manuals! I've just looked at the KA660 CPU module technical manual, only 800Kb or so and it's very, very good. Hope the rest of them are of similar quality. many thanks for these gems Tim! Alas slow bandwidth here (ISDN) so no mirrors. But I'll leave my PC sucking down as many as I can and cut them to CDR if anyone else in the UK wants them :) greg From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Apr 5 14:12:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit Message-ID: <1a4.1277fc3b.2bc09207@aol.com> My 1988 HP catalog indicates that it is the 9127A 5 1/4" floppy that works with the 9000/3XX series of computers. For 3 1/2" drives it is the 9122D/S drive unit that is recommended. There is no mention of an 8" floppy disk drive for use with the 9000/3XX series of computers I don't think the older 9885 floppy disk drive would work unless you wanted to program your own GPIO interface using the 98622A GPIO interface card which should fit in your 3XX. The SCSI/HS HP-IB interface is used as a disk drive interface but not for the 9885 floppys. Paxton Astoria, OR From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Apr 5 14:36:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web References: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <060a01c2fbb2$a09958f0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shoppa" To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 12:44 PM Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web > In the hope that others can mirror them, I've put up over 1000 > DEC manuals from the late 80's and early 90's up on the web. They > hardly seem "classic" to me, since when I started collecting computers > these items were brand new, but they *do* meet the 10-year definition! > > http://www.trailing-edge.com/~shoppa/dec94mds/ > > Again, if you do set up a publicly-accessible mirror for these I would > appreciate it. The last thing I want to do is hoard stuff I've been > sitting on for many years. > > Tim. > WoW! Thanks for putting this stuff online! I located and downloaded a BUNCH of stuff related to the systems I have. Do you know how large a mirror would be in MB? Thanks, Stuart Johnson From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 5 15:14:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: Need docs for Microsoft Premium Softcard //e In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I don't think they supplied a utility to do that. [(CP/M -> Apple DOS)] If I recall correctly, While not bundled with, I'm pretty sure that there were a few such utilities available. But last time that I did it, I used a 5150 with an Apple-Turnover card. No, I do not have a working one of those cards on hand. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 5 16:58:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: Interesting 8/L problem (more than you want to know about In-Reply-To: from "Charles" at Apr 4, 3 10:40:44 pm Message-ID: > So the object lesson here is that all switching transistors are > not created equal, even in 1960's technology! Naturally since the Having repaired (1960's) HP9100 calculators, I can agree with that. Some of the transistors in there are critical. Very critical. The ROM address drivers, for example (the main ROM is an inductive matrix...). And even the EHT oscillator transistor is somewhat critical -- many of the obvious choices for that one (like TV line output transistors -- HOTs to you) will oscillate, but he voltage regulation loop doesn't work -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 5 16:58:34 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: Thanks for the welcome In-Reply-To: <20030405190315.DE1CDB6BA@xmxpita.excite.com> from "Tim" at Apr 5, 3 02:03:15 pm Message-ID: > Well, I am mainly into pdp-8 and pdp-11. Those were my first You will find many people here who have PDPs (mostly 8's and 11's) of various flavours... I have an 8/e on my desk (!), an 11/45 in the next room, an 11/44 under the desk, a couple of 11/10s (one has a VT11 kludged inside, so I guess it's really a GT40...) a few 11/34s, etc. Oh, and some Q-bus boxes, but those don't count :-) > computers when in high school and college. But pdp-10s also interest > me. Actually anything pdp related might get my interest. I have a Looke at non-DEC minis too. I'm primarily a hardware hacker, so anything built from rows of TTL chips (or discrete transistors) interests me. PDP11s are nice, but HP, Data General, Philips, etc also made interesting minis at about the same time. Welcome aboard! -tony From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Apr 5 18:40:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit - resume References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> <01a001c2fb6f$60cbb620$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004801c2fb78$abd31560$7d00a8c0@george> <3.0.6.16.20030405120431.4337f56e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <024001c2fba6$23ebe400$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <008301c2fbd5$0c1454a0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "SPC" To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 2:04 PM Subject: Re: HP9885 8" floppy unit - resume PLEASE DON'T YELL. It makes you sound hostile and angry, and most people consider it quite rude. I will attempt to answer some of these questions, the ones I can't answer I will ignore. > Said this, I have some questions about the machine and its peripherals. > Here we go: > CAN BE ONE WIDE CENTRONICS CONNECTOR IN THE BACK > OF THE HP9000/380 WITH THE LEGEND "SCSI/HS HP-IB" > A GPIO PORT ? The 50-in connector labled SCSI/HS-IB can be either SCSI or HS-IB. Without an added option board mounted inside the case, it is a SCSI port. With the card installed and the cable from the connector moved from the planar to the card it becomes an HS-IP port. > HOW CAN I UPGRADE ONE HP9000/380 TO ONE HP9000/385 ? Move the jumper labled `P10' from `25' to '33'. The jumper is located daigonally opposite from pin 1 on the CPU, upper left corner of the CPU as seen from above with the DIO connectors closest to you. Replace the socketed 50MHz oscillator `Y2' located to the immediate right of the CPU as viewed above with a 66MHz oscillator. This will overclock the 25MHz 68040 to 33MHz. It will most likely void your warranty. > WHERE CAN I LOCATE ONE 3 BNC ADAPTER TO A VGA MONITOR ? http://www.google.com/search?q=BNC%20to%20VGA would be a good place to start. You can purchase them pre-made, or assemble one yourself if you like. > WHAT MODEL OF SERIAL TERMINAL CAN I USE WITH ONE > HP9000/380 ? The default settings are 9600 baud, 8 bits no parity 1 stop bit. Just about any terminal ever made will work, provided the cables can be mated up and the console can be switched to the serial port. When the serial console is enabled, it is merely an extension of the graphical head. The HP-HIL keyboard remains enabled (and presumably the framebuffer too), any characters entered on it will be echoed to the console as if they were entered via the terminal attached to the serial console. This will allow you to do things like play around on the HP-HIL keyboard and accidentally switch the console back to the graphical head... > WHERE CAN I FIND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ? http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hp300 is where I found most of my information. Another place to check would be http://www.google.com/search?q=HP+9000+380. > WHAT IS ONE 34-PIN CONNECTOR IN THE HP 98574 BOARD ? > MAYBE A FLOPPY CONNECTOR ? I'm not positive, but I believe it is where the HS-IP option board connects to the planar. > Best Regards > Sergio Bob From djg at drs-esg.com Sat Apr 5 18:46:00 2003 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: DF32x4 questions; software needed Message-ID: <200304060038.h360cmL09686@drs-esg.com> >From: Ethan Dicks >--- "Dr. Charles E. Morris" wrote: >> registers... Ethan Dicks has pointed out that I should look at the >> drivers in OS8 and TSS8 to see if this will be a compatibility problem. >> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-8/os8/os8.v3d/sources/system/dectapes/dectape2/ ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/tss8 >As I mentioned earlier, I've only done some basic DF32 twiddling >from a PDP-8/i to prove that the interface mostly worked (and to >diagnose my repairs of a smoked rotation sensor board). I've never >had the joy of an 8K machine + DF32s, so I've never had an OS to >explore them. > 4k and 1 DF32 is enough for Disk Monitor System. I built an image with the standard programs and put it at ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/software/dms/ The paper tapes images to build it and the manual are pointed to in the readme. It was installed for 8k since my 8/i is 8k but can be installed for 4k. I also have programs to dump and restore DF32 images over the console port. They aren't online yet since they need a little more cleanup but I can send you a copy. Let me know if you need any help. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Apr 5 18:48:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit - resume References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> <01a001c2fb6f$60cbb620$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004801c2fb78$abd31560$7d00a8c0@george> <3.0.6.16.20030405120431.4337f56e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <024001c2fba6$23ebe400$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <00a001c2fbd5$ee2abfa0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "SPC" To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 2:04 PM Subject: Re: HP9885 8" floppy unit - resume PLEASE DON'T YELL. It makes you sound hostile and angry, and most people consider it quite rude. I will attempt to answer some of these questions, the ones I can't answer I will ignore. > Said this, I have some questions about the machine and its peripherals. > Here we go: > CAN BE ONE WIDE CENTRONICS CONNECTOR IN THE BACK > OF THE HP9000/380 WITH THE LEGEND "SCSI/HS HP-IB" > A GPIO PORT ? The 50-in connector labled SCSI/HS-IB can be either SCSI or HS-IB. Without an added option board mounted inside the case, it is a SCSI port. With the card installed and the cable from the connector moved from the planar to the card it becomes an HS-IP port. > HOW CAN I UPGRADE ONE HP9000/380 TO ONE HP9000/385 ? Move the jumper labled `P10' from `25' to '33'. The jumper is located daigonally opposite from pin 1 on the CPU, upper left corner of the CPU as seen from above with the DIO connectors closest to you. Replace the socketed 50MHz oscillator `Y2' located to the immediate right of the CPU as viewed above with a 66MHz oscillator. This will overclock the 25MHz 68040 to 33MHz. It will most likely void your warranty, and may result in the magic smoke escaping from the CPU. > WHERE CAN I LOCATE ONE 3 BNC ADAPTER TO A VGA MONITOR ? http://www.google.com/search?q=BNC%20to%20VGA would be a good place to start. You can purchase them pre-made, or assemble one yourself if you like. > WHAT MODEL OF SERIAL TERMINAL CAN I USE WITH ONE > HP9000/380 ? The default settings are 9600 baud, 8 bits no parity 1 stop bit. Just about any terminal ever made will work, provided the cables can be mated up and the console can be switched to the serial port. When the serial console is enabled, it is merely an extension of the graphical head. The HP-HIL keyboard remains enabled (and presumably the framebuffer too), any characters entered on it will be echoed to the console as if they were entered via the terminal attached to the serial console. This will allow you to do things like play around on the HP-HIL keyboard and accidentally switch the console back to the graphical head... > WHERE CAN I FIND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ? http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hp300 is where I found most of my information. Another place to check would be http://www.google.com/search?q=HP+9000+380. > WHAT IS ONE 34-PIN CONNECTOR IN THE HP 98574 BOARD ? > MAYBE A FLOPPY CONNECTOR ? I'm not positive, as I don't have one, but I believe it is where the HS-IP option board connects to the planar. > Best Regards > Sergio Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Apr 5 18:49:26 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit - resume References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> <01a001c2fb6f$60cbb620$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004801c2fb78$abd31560$7d00a8c0@george> <3.0.6.16.20030405120431.4337f56e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <024001c2fba6$23ebe400$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <00a101c2fbd5$f1850e30$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "SPC" To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 2:04 PM Subject: Re: HP9885 8" floppy unit - resume PLEASE DON'T YELL. It makes you sound hostile and angry, and most people consider it quite rude. I will attempt to answer some of these questions, the ones I can't answer I will ignore. > Said this, I have some questions about the machine and its peripherals. > Here we go: > CAN BE ONE WIDE CENTRONICS CONNECTOR IN THE BACK > OF THE HP9000/380 WITH THE LEGEND "SCSI/HS HP-IB" > A GPIO PORT ? The 50-in connector labled SCSI/HS-IB can be either SCSI or HS-IB. Without an added option board mounted inside the case, it is a SCSI port. With the card installed and the cable from the connector moved from the planar to the card it becomes an HS-IP port. > HOW CAN I UPGRADE ONE HP9000/380 TO ONE HP9000/385 ? Move the jumper labled `P10' from `25' to '33'. The jumper is located daigonally opposite from pin 1 on the CPU, upper left corner of the CPU as seen from above with the DIO connectors closest to you. Replace the socketed 50MHz oscillator `Y2' located to the immediate right of the CPU as viewed above with a 66MHz oscillator. This will overclock the 25MHz 68040 to 33MHz. It will most likely void your warranty, and may result in the magic smoke escaping from the CPU. > WHERE CAN I LOCATE ONE 3 BNC ADAPTER TO A VGA MONITOR ? http://www.google.com/search?q=BNC%20to%20VGA would be a good place to start. You can purchase them pre-made, or assemble one yourself if you like. > WHAT MODEL OF SERIAL TERMINAL CAN I USE WITH ONE > HP9000/380 ? The default settings are 9600 baud, 8 bits no parity 1 stop bit. Just about any terminal ever made will work, provided the cables can be mated up and the console can be switched to the serial port. When the serial console is enabled, it is merely an extension of the graphical head. The HP-HIL keyboard remains enabled (and presumably the framebuffer too), any characters entered on it will be echoed to the console as if they were entered via the terminal attached to the serial console. This will allow you to do things like play around on the HP-HIL keyboard and accidentally switch the console back to the graphical head... > WHERE CAN I FIND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ? http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hp300 is where I found most of my information. Another place to check would be http://www.google.com/search?q=HP+9000+380. > WHAT IS ONE 34-PIN CONNECTOR IN THE HP 98574 BOARD ? > MAYBE A FLOPPY CONNECTOR ? I'm not positive, as I don't have one, but I believe it is where the HS-IP option board connects to the planar. > Best Regards > Sergio Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Apr 5 18:50:53 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit - resume References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> <01a001c2fb6f$60cbb620$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004801c2fb78$abd31560$7d00a8c0@george> <3.0.6.16.20030405120431.4337f56e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <024001c2fba6$23ebe400$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <00a501c2fbd5$fdcde450$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "SPC" To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 2:04 PM Subject: Re: HP9885 8" floppy unit - resume PLEASE DON'T YELL. It makes you sound hostile and angry, and most people consider it quite rude. I will attempt to answer some of these questions, the ones I can't answer I will ignore. > Said this, I have some questions about the machine and its peripherals. > Here we go: > CAN BE ONE WIDE CENTRONICS CONNECTOR IN THE BACK > OF THE HP9000/380 WITH THE LEGEND "SCSI/HS HP-IB" > A GPIO PORT ? The 50-in connector labled SCSI/HS-IB can be either SCSI or HS-IB. Without an added option board mounted inside the case, it is a SCSI port. With the card installed and the cable from the connector moved from the planar to the card it becomes an HS-IP port. > HOW CAN I UPGRADE ONE HP9000/380 TO ONE HP9000/385 ? Move the jumper labled `P10' from `25' to '33'. The jumper is located daigonally opposite from pin 1 on the CPU, upper left corner of the CPU as seen from above with the DIO connectors closest to you. Replace the socketed 50MHz oscillator `Y2' located to the immediate right of the CPU as viewed above with a 66MHz oscillator. This will overclock the 25MHz 68040 to 33MHz. It will most likely void your warranty, and may result in the magic smoke escaping from the CPU. > WHERE CAN I LOCATE ONE 3 BNC ADAPTER TO A VGA MONITOR ? http://www.google.com/search?q=BNC%20to%20VGA would be a good place to start. You can purchase them pre-made, or assemble one yourself if you like. > WHAT MODEL OF SERIAL TERMINAL CAN I USE WITH ONE > HP9000/380 ? The default settings are 9600 baud, 8 bits no parity 1 stop bit. Just about any terminal ever made will work, provided the cables can be mated up and the console can be switched to the serial port. When the serial console is enabled, it is merely an extension of the graphical head. The HP-HIL keyboard remains enabled (and presumably the framebuffer too), any characters entered on it will be echoed to the console as if they were entered via the terminal attached to the serial console. This will allow you to do things like play around on the HP-HIL keyboard and accidentally switch the console back to the graphical head... > WHERE CAN I FIND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ? http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hp300 is where I found most of my information. Another place to check would be http://www.google.com/search?q=HP+9000+380. > WHAT IS ONE 34-PIN CONNECTOR IN THE HP 98574 BOARD ? > MAYBE A FLOPPY CONNECTOR ? I'm not positive, as I don't have one, but I believe it is where the HS-IP option board connects to the planar. > Best Regards > Sergio Bob From rborsuk at colourfull.com Sat Apr 5 22:07:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: Teletype ASR 33 In-Reply-To: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: Hey, Was wondering if the Model 33 collectors seen this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2168370730&category=132 Rob Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Apr 5 22:17:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: <060a01c2fbb2$a09958f0$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: >WoW! Thanks for putting this stuff online! I located and downloaded a BUNCH >of stuff related to the systems I have. > >Do you know how large a mirror would be in MB? > >Thanks, >Stuart Johnson I'm just guessing, but I suspect there is 2-3 CD's worth of stuff there, as the copy of the DEC MDS I've got is 3 CD's. FYI, this is what replaced the Microfiche. It's great how Tim has this stuff indexed! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From aeg at paradise.net.nz Sat Apr 5 23:00:01 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: New to list - with a DG/UX question Message-ID: Hi All I am new to the list joining you from New Zealand. I have been interested in computers for a long time and I'm always picking stuff up at thrift shops and junk shops (much to the annoyance of my wife) so I thought I ought to learn a little more about what I have. My collection, so far, is rather unstructured and not catalogued in any way (I am in the process of rectifying this). My first question to the list may not even qualify for the 10 year age regulation (but I hope it does on the interest factor). I have recently acquired a Data General Aviion 8500 server (quad processor) and a Clariion 2200 (20 disk array). Both units are in great condition coming from a local Health Authority ;0) The Aviion came without any OS or media - my searches have lead to the conclusion that this unit will only run DG/UX and nothing else. Well... a copy of DG/UX 4.0 arrived in the post yesterday and I have been trying to get things moving ever since. Does anyone on the list know if I can boot the OS from CD. My CD drive is recognised (ID3) but I get nowhere. Would copying the CD to tape be a better option? Any thoughts, ideas, help or sarcastic comments will be received. Alan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 5 23:09:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: New to list - with a DG/UX question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030406050720.1217.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Alan Greenstreet wrote: > Hi All > > I am new to the list joining you from New Zealand. Cool. What part? I lived in Christchurch for a few months at a time a few years back (1996, 1997) and I've been to Wellington to visit friends. > ...Data General Aviion 8500 server... and a Clariion 2200... Well... I'd tend to agree that if this is not technically on-topic, it should get honorary membership due to its lineage. Unfortunately, I can't give you any recommendations on it. My expertise does not extend to DG gear. I'm mostly a DEC and 70s-micro guy. Good luck and welcome, -ethan From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Apr 5 23:22:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: RXV21 question Message-ID: <066801c2fbfc$24bf1c70$0200a8c0@cosmo> OK, this may be obvious to the experts here, but I haven't a clue: can a DEC RXV21 RX01 / RX02 floppy controller be used with non-DEC floppy drives, using the standard DEC RT11 driver? By non-DEC I mean ordinary SSSD or SSDD Shugart, Siemens, or Qume 8" floppy drives. I recently saw a project where someone uses a Linux PC to act as a RX02 floppy for a PDP-11 system. That got me thinking: if I can use the RXV21 with foreign floppy drives, I already have a pair of 8" floppy drives that I could use. This would be VERY handy and save me some $$$. OK experts, what is the verdict? Thanks in advance! Stuart Johnson From spedraja at ono.com Sun Apr 6 00:36:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit - resume References: <3.0.6.16.20030404141502.0f1f92e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030404205454.4597d752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <017601c2fb47$c881e140$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004101c2fb67$13a68a80$7d00a8c0@george> <01a001c2fb6f$60cbb620$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <004801c2fb78$abd31560$7d00a8c0@george> <3.0.6.16.20030405120431.4337f56e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <024001c2fba6$23ebe400$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <00a501c2fbd5$fdcde450$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <02f501c2fc06$69d27a00$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Hi, Robert ! > PLEASE DON'T YELL. It makes you sound hostile and angry, and most people > consider it quite rude. I will attempt to answer some of these questions, > the ones I can't answer I will ignore. Ok :-) I did it for "remark" purposes. Even when I know the netiquette precepts in this aspect, sometimes I have a sensation of dispersion in these messages. The only way I have to divide paragraphs in a correct visual form for me is to put the head of the paragraphs in CAPS. Sorry if somebody was offended. About the rest of the message, it answers some of the questions I have in a satisfactory way... by the moment, of course :-) Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Apr 6 08:12:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: breathing life into old chips Message-ID: <20030406131009.16359.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> > hi, > >> (the chip in question is a ST9293J9B1/AEL for the record, > What is this TV model & brand? It's a Ferguson T7073SJD, using an ICC9 chassis. One website containing a faults database listed the failure of that chip giving the exact symptoms that I see (no sound when the set warms up and the remote operation goes unresponsive). I've pulled the main board and will re-solder all the joints in that area just to check; there's only one electrolytic as part of the circuitry surrounding that chip but I'll replace it with a known-good just in case. Tony's point about the crystal was interesting - I didn't think those things ever failed. I'll see if I've got a spare to try anyway. The set's awful inside - very cheaply made with little thought to cable runs, connectors, and how the various boards plug together. Guess they must have had different teams working on different sections and management for the overall project wasn't exactly what it should have been... (typical of more modern equipment unfortunately!) cheers Jules For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sun Apr 6 08:15:01 2003 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: References: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3E9027A6.nail13711MM5C@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> > I'm just guessing, but I suspect there is 2-3 CD's worth of stuff there, as > the copy of the DEC MDS I've got is 3 CD's. It actually works out to under 600 Mbytes because there's a factor of 3 or 4 in compressing from .PS to .PDF, and then there's some more savings because I only have one copy of each document but the real MDS set has duplication. The original DEC 94 MDS set is 2 for peripherals, 3 for VAXen. For those who are mirroring, your bandwidth will go up after some others get done :-). Right now there's about 10 "wgets" going on so the effective speed for each is circa 4-5 kbytes/sec. Tim. From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 6 11:06:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web References: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <3E9027A6.nail13711MM5C@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <004001c2fc56$245a9b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > It actually works out to under 600 Mbytes... I have a bandwidth limitation on my ISP, but I could host some of these to help. I might be better suited to cut CD's on request. BTW Thanks for this magnificent effort. For those who haven't seen it yet, this eDoc set is "compressed" all the way down to properly formatted text. Clean,compact, and transportable... Most excellent! John A. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 6 11:23:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: <3E9027A6.nail13711MM5C@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <3E9027A6.nail13711MM5C@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <20030406162243.GA27357@subatomix.com> On Sunday, April 6, 2003, Tim Shoppa wrote: > It actually works out to under 600 Mbytes ... For those who are > mirroring, your bandwidth will go up after some others get done :-). > Right now there's about 10 "wgets" going on so the effective speed for > each is circa 4-5 kbytes/sec. Obvious question: How much would it cost to reimburse you for time and expenses of burning the files to CD and mailing the CD, if such a service were indeed available? Considering the prices one finds at certain other venues, even $50 would be relatively dirt cheap. Never underestimate the bandwidth of a CD in a UPS truck. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jwb at paravolve.net Sun Apr 6 12:29:00 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (James W. Brinkerhoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: <20030406162243.GA27357@subatomix.com> References: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <3E9027A6.nail13711MM5C@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <20030406162243.GA27357@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030406132711.6700561a.jwb@paravolve.net> If anyone needs a mirror, I'd be more than happy to put these up once I'm done downloading them... Bandwidth won't be much of an issue... -jwb On Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:22:43 -0500 Jeffrey Sharp wrote: # On Sunday, April 6, 2003, Tim Shoppa wrote: # > It actually works out to under 600 Mbytes ... For those who are # > mirroring, your bandwidth will go up after some others get done :-). # > Right now there's about 10 "wgets" going on so the effective speed for # > each is circa 4-5 kbytes/sec. # # Obvious question: How much would it cost to reimburse you for time and # expenses of burning the files to CD and mailing the CD, if such a # service were indeed available? Considering the prices one finds at # certain other venues, even $50 would be relatively dirt cheap. # # Never underestimate the bandwidth of a CD in a UPS truck. # # -- # Jeffrey Sharp -- ## James W. Brinkerhoff ## ## GPG Key Sig: EBF1 6C24 0814 A3E9 6E93 649C 1F25 D807 E484 C9B9 [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 6 13:06:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: New to list - with a DG/UX question In-Reply-To: from "Alan Greenstreet" at Apr 6, 3 05:00:53 pm Message-ID: > Hi All > > I am new to the list joining you from New Zealand. Welcome ! > > I have been interested in computers for a long time and I'm always > picking stuff up at thrift shops and junk shops (much to the annoyance > of my wife) so I thought I ought to learn a little more about what I I think many of us have a problem with wives/girlfriends/boyfriends/ parents who don't understand our love of these fine machines, and wonder why they keep on falling over bits of ancient computer :-). > have. My collection, so far, is rather unstructured and not catalogued > in any way (I am in the process of rectifying this). > > My first question to the list may not even qualify for the 10 year age > regulation (but I hope it does on the interest factor). I have recently AFAIK the 10 year rule has never been strictly enforced here, and is really there to stop this list degenerating into another Wintel Problems List. Interesting computers, even if not quite 10 years old, are OK :-) And this machine certainly sounds interesting! Alas I can't help you with it -- my only DG machine is an old Nova 1210 that I litereally pulled from a scrap pile. Alas somebody had got there before me and raided the switches/lights board (I guess for the switches -- the front panel bezel, etc, was still there). But I did get the CPU board, core memory, PSU, rack, and a couple of custom I/O boards. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 6 13:06:14 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: RXV21 question In-Reply-To: <066801c2fbfc$24bf1c70$0200a8c0@cosmo> from "Stuart Johnson" at Apr 5, 3 11:19:48 pm Message-ID: > OK, this may be obvious to the experts here, but I haven't a clue: can a DEC > RXV21 RX01 / RX02 floppy controller be used with non-DEC floppy drives, using > the standard DEC RT11 driver? By non-DEC I mean ordinary SSSD or SSDD Shugart, > Siemens, or Qume 8" floppy drives. Anything is _possible_ (apart from ski-ing through a revolving door :-)), but it may not be easy. And using an RX211 or RXV21 or RX8 or ... with normal drives is certainly not easy. The reason is that these cards are _not_ floppy controllers. They're bus interfaces between Unibus/Qbus/Omnibus and a serial link to the drive. The actual controller is inside the drive chassis -- a board of AMD29xx bit-slice chips in the RX02 and a board of TTL + microcode PROMs in the RX01. This controller is responsible for positioning the heads, finding sectors, doing the CRC, and so on. Third-party contollers (mostly Qbus) that linked SA800 drives to DEC machines had a fair amount of logic on the card, often including a pair of 2901 ALUs and a 2910 sequencer. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 6 13:06:18 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: breathing life into old chips In-Reply-To: <20030406131009.16359.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Apr 6, 3 02:10:09 pm Message-ID: > > hi, > > > >> (the chip in question is a ST9293J9B1/AEL for the record, > > What is this TV model & brand? > > It's a Ferguson T7073SJD, using an ICC9 chassis. One website containing a FWIW, Thomson-built ICCn chassis are _notorious_ for dry joints! > faults database listed the failure of that chip giving the exact symptoms that > I see (no sound when the set warms up and the remote operation goes > unresponsive). Those databases are not that useful IMHO. What that entry means is that somebody had a set with those symptoms, and that replacing the microcontroller cured it. It doesn't mean there was any logical reason why the microcontroller was the problem (maybe soldering in the new one cured a dry joint). It doesn't even mean that this is the most common cause of the fault. > > I've pulled the main board and will re-solder all the joints in that area just > to check; there's only one electrolytic as part of the circuitry surrounding > that chip but I'll replace it with a known-good just in case. Tony's point You need the schematic (it should be available -- maybe even in the local library -- look for the TV Servicing books). You want to check the reset line, which may well be routed across the PCB from somewhere else. > about the crystal was interesting - I didn't think those things ever failed. > I'll see if I've got a spare to try anyway. > > The set's awful inside - very cheaply made with little thought to cable runs, Well, all I can say is that in my experience Thomson sets are some of the better made ones out there. They're not good, but you should try some of the others! -tony From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Apr 6 13:26:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:50 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: <3E9027A6.nail13711MM5C@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Apr 2003, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > I'm just guessing, but I suspect there is 2-3 CD's worth of stuff there, as > > the copy of the DEC MDS I've got is 3 CD's. > > It actually works out to under 600 Mbytes because there's a factor of > 3 or 4 in compressing from .PS to .PDF, and then there's some more savings > because I only have one copy of each document but the real MDS set has > duplication. > > The original DEC 94 MDS set is 2 for peripherals, 3 for VAXen. > > For those who are mirroring, your bandwidth will go up after some others > get done :-). Right now there's about 10 "wgets" going on so the effective > speed for each is circa 4-5 kbytes/sec. > > Tim. > As I've told Tim, I'm working on setting up a mirror here at Purdue. After this finishes downloading (Probably in about another day with the 2.8kB/sec rate I'm getting), I'll be hosting it on a machine that has much more bandwith - it'll max out its network connection long before the Internet connection here is maxed out. So, if anyone wants to wait a day to download this, I can promise a much higher download rate. Of course the more people that wait, the faster I can get the stuff downloaded for a mirror ;-). Once it's set up, I'll email everyone, the URL will be: http://purdueriots.com/classiccmp/dec94mds/ Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 6 13:45:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: New to list - with a DG/UX question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030406184429.GB22774@subatomix.com> On Sunday, April 6, 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > AFAIK the 10 year rule has never been strictly enforced here, and is > really there to stop this list degenerating into another Wintel Problems > List. Interesting computers, even if not quite 10 years old, are OK :-) There's always cool factor. After all, there must be some way to on-topicize things like Crays, SGIs, modern-yet-anachronistic designs, etc. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 6 13:55:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: References: <3E9027A6.nail13711MM5C@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <20030406185422.GC22774@subatomix.com> On Sunday, April 6, 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > As I've told Tim, I'm working on setting up a mirror here at Purdue. > After this finishes downloading (Probably in about another day with the > 2.8kB/sec rate I'm getting), I'll be hosting it on a machine that has much > more bandwith - it'll max out its network connection long before the > Internet connection here is maxed out. That works for me. Would it be feasible to make MD5 sums available as well? -- Jeffrey Sharp From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Apr 6 14:06:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: <20030406185422.GC22774@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Apr 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Sunday, April 6, 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > As I've told Tim, I'm working on setting up a mirror here at Purdue. > > After this finishes downloading (Probably in about another day with the > > 2.8kB/sec rate I'm getting), I'll be hosting it on a machine that has much > > more bandwith - it'll max out its network connection long before the > > Internet connection here is maxed out. > > That works for me. Would it be feasible to make MD5 sums available as well? Sure, I guess. Not sure what that'd get you since there's no 'master' set of MD5s available and it's not like there's any binary software or source in there. Of course, I'm usually not paranoid enough to look at MD5's anyhow... I'll make an MD5sums text file in there with all of the MD5's, and put a link on the mirrored index.html. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From aeg at paradise.net.nz Sun Apr 6 18:06:00 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: New to list - with a DG/UX question In-Reply-To: <20030406050720.1217.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5BFCC3D2-6884-11D7-9D4E-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> On Sunday, Apr 6, 2003, at 17:07 Pacific/Auckland, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> > > Cool. What part? I lived in Christchurch for a few months at a time > a few years back (1996, 1997) and I've been to Wellington to visit > friends. > I'm in Christchurch and have been here for 9 months having moved from the UK (Kent) prior to that I was living in Venezuela so I'm pleased to settle down for a while. Apart from the DG Aviion (which I appreciate is a little OT) I have some SparcStations (1's, 1+'s 2's - again _fairly_ recent, the odd Apple, an Epson Equity LT-286e laptop. I got an Atari PC3 yesterday (that looks like it fell down the stairs! - but it works) along with a box of bits and pieces which I am wading through and I've a whole stack of stuff that I haven't even started with yet... Considering I've had to start from scratch again (my last collection was donated to a friend in the UK) I have managed to accumulate quite a bit. As I said no real structure so far I'm just seeing what is about locally and more often than not taking it home. Thanks for the welcome Alan From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Apr 6 20:51:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Apollo Domain, Aegis, etc Message-ID: I just acquired what seems to be a fairly complete set of tapes for an Apollo system running Domain/OS. I was planning to make images of the tapes, and wondered if anyone might be looking for any of this software? Here is a condensed list of the tapes: AEGIS 9.6.1, tapes 1 and 2 AEGIS 9.7, tapes 1 and 2 TCP/IP 3.0 DOMAIN/IX 9.5 NFS 1.0 NFS 2.0 DPCC 3.1 CC 4.8 CC 4.89 CC 6.6 M/6.5 MPX FTN 9.38 FTN 9.66 FTN 10.6 M/10.5 MPX Interleaf 4.0.66, tapes 1 and 2 Some of the (DC600?) tapes have bad drive belts, but that should be pretty simple to correct. -Toth From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Apr 6 21:03:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit In-Reply-To: <1a4.1277fc3b.2bc09207@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030406215721.107fff4c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:09 PM 4/5/03 EST, you wrote: >My 1988 HP catalog indicates that it is the 9127A 5 1/4" floppy that works >with the 9000/3XX series of computers. For 3 1/2" drives it is the 9122D/S >drive unit that is recommended. There is no mention of an 8" floppy disk >drive for use with the 9000/3XX series of computers IIRC one of the first HP catalogs that listed the 9000/200 series computer (probably about 1985) also listed an interface for the 9885 drive. The HP 9895 drive has a HP-IB interface and should be useable on any of the 200s and (I THINK) any of the 300s. The same applies to the the 82901 and 82902 5.25" floppy drives. I believe that the 9121, 82901, 82902 and 9895 all use the Amigo protocall. If so, any machine that supports the 9121 should support all the others even if they were obselete and not listed in the HP catalogs of the period. > >I don't think the older 9885 floppy disk drive would work unless you wanted >to program your own GPIO interface using the 98622A GPIO interface card which >should fit in your 3XX. I don't think the 380s came with any DIO slots so the 98622 wouldn't fit unless you add a DIO-II to DIO converter or an expansion chassis that has DIO slots. > >The SCSI/HS HP-IB interface is used as a disk drive interface but not for the >9885 floppys. Correct. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Apr 6 21:04:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit In-Reply-To: <1a4.1277fc3b.2bc09207@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030406215721.1137bec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:09 PM 4/5/03 EST, you wrote: >My 1988 HP catalog indicates that it is the 9127A 5 1/4" floppy that works >with the 9000/3XX series of computers. For 3 1/2" drives it is the 9122D/S >drive unit that is recommended. There is no mention of an 8" floppy disk >drive for use with the 9000/3XX series of computers IIRC one of the first HP catalogs that listed the 9000/200 series computer (probably about 1985) also listed an interface for the 9885 drive. The HP 9895 drive has a HP-IB interface and should be useable on any of the 200s and (I THINK) any of the 300s. The same applies to the the 82901 and 82902 5.25" floppy drives. I believe that the 9121, 82901, 82902 and 9895 all use the Amigo protocall. If so, any machine that supports the 9121 should support all the others even if they were obselete and not listed in the HP catalogs of the period. > >I don't think the older 9885 floppy disk drive would work unless you wanted >to program your own GPIO interface using the 98622A GPIO interface card which >should fit in your 3XX. I don't think the 380s came with any DIO slots so the 98622 wouldn't fit unless you add a DIO-II to DIO converter or an expansion chassis that has DIO slots. > >The SCSI/HS HP-IB interface is used as a disk drive interface but not for the >9885 floppys. Correct. Joe From charlesmorris at direcway.com Sun Apr 6 21:12:00 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Need help with ASR33 tape reader - major frustration! Message-ID: I can't get my ASR33's tape reader to stop missing occasional characters! I have lubed it and tried setting it according to the procedures in the manual but that is very frustrating since many of the adjustments interact. Using a test tape punched on the same TTY with 72 printable characters per line (incrementing from space through Z and punctuation, then LF + CR at end of each line), if I carefully adjust the detent position I can achieve one (and occasionally 3 or 4 in a row) "skipped" characters about every 10-20 lines which is roughly once every 1000 characters on average. I can load short tapes like the BIN loader and then the second short section of 4K FOCAL successfully, but the long first section of FOCAL (which takes over 10 mins. to read in) invariably gives a checksum error. In other words, not good enough. The missing characters are not being read into the data stream at all, nor are the previous or next characters duplicated. I wrote a program to just read the characters into the AC and halt if a NUL (000) is read. All 0's are indeed being read on the missed character and I think this is because the contact pins are all held down if there is a "misfeed" where the tape moves just enough to put the pins between rows of holes, but not far enough to skip to the next. Anyone with experience "tuning" this beast, please give me a hint! thanks Charles From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Sun Apr 6 23:15:01 2003 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: For sale/give away In-Reply-To: <200303250407.UAA16184@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at "Mar 24, 2003 08:07:52 pm" Message-ID: <200304070412.VAA07462@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> I've been working on spring cleaning for about 6 months now and have a few possessions to part with. Best offer takes it. Best offer includes free. Best shipping method would be you pick it up in Castro Valley, CA. Here's the first list.... All items were functioning at last test unless noted. Apple Duodisk Drive (functional status unknown) Epson QX-10 complete system with monitor, printer, assorted software and a few manuals. Pacific Rim PS/2 external 1.2MB 5.25" FDD Exabyte Streaming Tape Backup (QIC-20?) subsystem with ISA controller and software. Epson FX-85 dot matrix printer. Mouse Systems Pagebrush/256 Hand Scanner Brother Image Center Sheet Feed Scanner (Parallel Interface) w/ Drivers HP Deskwriter C with Appletalk interface HP Scanjet flatbed scanner (Parallel interface) HP 88396 SCSI/Parallel interface. 4 port parallel auto data switch two no-name XT clones with HDD, FDD. Dell Latitude CPi (nonfunctional, zero-K ram, no HDD) with power supply, FDD, Ziva DS DVD decoder card, functional at last test. Turtle Beach Montego A3D PCI audio card, condition unknown. ATX Case with 450 MHz Slot I (PII,PIII) Dell motherboard and power supply, no CPU or RAM 3COM Etherlink III PCMCIA 33.6kbps Modem+Ethernet controller. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 6 23:17:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Computers in/from N.Z. (was Re: New to list - with a DG/UX question) In-Reply-To: <5BFCC3D2-6884-11D7-9D4E-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <20030407041452.65923.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Alan Greenstreet wrote: > On Sunday, Apr 6, 2003, at 17:07 Pacific/Auckland, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> > > > > Cool. What part? I lived in Christchurch for a few months at a time > > a few years back (1996, 1997)... > > > I'm in Christchurch and have been here for 9 months... Well great! I loved Chch. I stayed there between stints on the Ice and coming home. > Apart from the DG Aviion...some SparcStations...the odd Apple, an Epson > Equity LT-286e laptop... an Atari PC3 yesterday (that looks like it fell > down the stairs!) Not bad for just having moved. My Amiga 4000 comes from Chch. I replied to an ad in whatever they call the newspaper for swapping stuff (the local one here is called "The Trading Times") - you know, the thing that was here long before eBay, printed on genuine dead trees?!? It came with a 1403(?) monitor that I sold to a mate before I left; I just shipped home the CPU. Even with shipping home, I still got a good deal on the lot. The downside was that a) it had a cheap-ass C= PSU that was *not* 220V/110V selectable, and b) it had the low-end 68EC030 board. When I got home, I replaced the 68EC030 with a full 68030 (same board; just swapped the chip) and it ran that way for a while (I needed the MMU for Enforcer, et al.), until I found a $100 A3640 68040 board that's in there now. Oh... the PSU I swapped out for a PeeCee one (the guts anyway). If anyone on the list needs an Amiga 4000 220V PSU board, please let me know. I migrated the main power harness, but left the disk drive wires attached. It would only be useful to someone in a 220V/50Hz country who has a dead A4000 PSU they need a board for. You'd have to steal the motherboard lead from the dead one. I'm willing to let it go for 1.2 X shipping to list members. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 6 23:22:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: RXV21 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030407041925.50727.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > Third-party contollers (mostly Qbus) that linked SA800 drives to DEC > machines had a fair amount of logic on the card, often including a pair > of 2901 ALUs and a 2910 sequencer. I have one of those - came in a DataRAM box with a DEC CPU and 3rd party peripherals (RAM, serial, DQ614, watchdog board). Nice cabinet. Room for two Tandon TM8xx drives up front (I have one) and a FH 5.25" ST-506 drive buried inside - all before DEC released the BA23, so an embedded disk was somewhat novel. I'll have to see what's on the floppy board. I remember attempting to use it, back in the day. We were trying to format blanks in it with a low success rate (c. 1985). Turns out there was a cold solder joint on the TM8xx power connector that finally lifted clean off. I tacked it back down and it stopped burping. -ethan From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sun Apr 6 23:27:01 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Computers in/from N.Z. (was Re: New to list - with a DG/UX question) In-Reply-To: <20030407041452.65923.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Well great! I loved Chch. I stayed there between stints on the Ice > and coming home. The great thing about dealing w/computers in NZ is the fact you can call Sun, or SGI, or Compaq/Digital/HP/who-the-hell-ever and get someone who's not only willing to waste their time talking to you, but is really interested in what you're fiddling with. Now I'll tell you right now - I've never even tried that in the US (Where I live now), but I've heard it just doesn't happen. I picked up a set of Sun 4/470s and 4/260s (Which live in an aircraft hangar in Christchurch, actually) and walked right into Sun that same day and talked to a fellow in there about them. He said once I had them reliably booting (I ended getting a replacement processing card) he'd lend me a CDROM and SunOS boot media, and he'd help me install the thing fresh -- at the time I had no experience with older machines, they were my personal "first" collectors item. Maybe its that small-time thing that does it, maybe I've just been lucky with the folks I've talked to - or maybe its like that all over the place, I can't say for sure. PS. If you're bored and want to oggle my junk, since I can't anymore, wander over to Wigram Air Force Base (or, what was Wigram AFB) and see if you can find PJ Hindin Engineering and talk to my old man. You could tell me if he's treating my Suns/DECs right ;) From dan at ekoan.com Mon Apr 7 00:07:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Available: Two DEFTA-FA FDDI cards Message-ID: Hello, I've got two DEC DEFTA-FA FDDIcontroller/TURBOchannel (Rev A02) cards that were pulled from scrapped DEC 3000 machines. I have no idea whether they work or not, since I never saw them running. Photos upon request. Best offer plus postage. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Apr 7 10:14:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: DEC Rack (GRRRRRRRRRRRRR) Message-ID: <007a01c2fd17$fe72b280$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I was all excited to pick up the 3 bay DEC rack I got off ebay. It looked like just the right rack to mate with my 11/44X rack. After unpalleting it and rolling it next to the 11/44X rack, much to my chagrin, I find it is the right hight, but the wrong depth. My kingdom for the right rack *sigh* This rack had an RA81 in it if that's any clue... I am going from foggy memory but I believe the 11/44X rack is 30 inches deep, and this rack is about 36 inches deep. Anyone want to trade a 30 inch deep corporate cab for a 36'er? Yes, I know, I'm being anal. Jay West From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 7 12:03:22 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette Message-ID: <200304071658.JAA28120@clulw009.amd.com> Hi All Well, I dug out my H89. I turned it on, POP, turned it off. Smoke comes from the one side. Well, it looked like one of the 2.2 uf tantalums decided to give up. I snipped it with my diagonals and brought it up again. No smoke this time and all the voltages looked good. As the screen came back to life, the H: prompt showed. I next put one of my bootable disk in and typed B(CR). Success! It is alive. I tried a number of disk and some had problems. I tracked it down to the disk not rotating. I'm not sure at what point they fail to rotate. I don't know if the motor isn't turning, the belt is slipping or the clamp on the disk is slipping. It seems that many of the disk envelopes are tight. This should be a warning. Don't stack disk on their sides. Years ago, I'd place a second drive in the machine by installing two half height drives. The boot drive it behind the other drive so I can't see what the difficulty is with the other disk. It got late so I'll fiddle some more, later. I was looking at the HDOS stuff I have and I also found a LISP for the H89 as well. I'll work some more on making a image to serial to transfer this stuff to a PC. Dwight From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 7 12:45:25 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: DEC Rack (GRRRRRRRRRRRRR) In-Reply-To: <007a01c2fd17$fe72b280$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030407174208.30138.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jay West wrote: > 3 bay DEC rack...to mate with my 11/44X rack... the right hight, but the > wrong depth. > > This rack had an RA81 in it if that's any clue... The trick isn't the RA81... it's that your rack is probably deep enough for an RA60. Sounds like you found the rack I was telling you about. H9642, but extended for overly-long SDI drives. I got one a couple years back, myself. I would have said that they were less common, but I suppose that the one you are looking for was probably phased out when the RL02 was no longer the dominant drive provided by DEC for small Unibus systems. Good luck on your hunt for the "right" one. -ethan From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Apr 7 12:46:30 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Victor Keyboard Identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You and me both, mate :) It's not top of my priority list however. Getting some space is at the top of my list for now! w > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: 03 April 2003 11:09 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Victor Keyboard Identification > > > Damn! > > I too would be interested in it :( > > If anyone else in the UK has a spare Sirius 1 kicking about (working or > dead, although the former is preferred, obviously), please get in touch. > I'm willing to pay for transport costs, plus beer tokens as appropriate. > > Cheers, > Ade. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Hills, Paul [mailto:Paul.Hills@siemens.co.uk] > > Sent: 03 April 2003 10:26 am > > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > > Subject: RE: Victor Keyboard Identification > > > > > > John, > > > > Whereabouts are you in the UK? I would be interested in that > > Sirius 1, and > > could collect it if you're anywhere near Manchester. Would > > you be interested > > in a spare Epson HX20 as a swap? > > > > paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Honniball [mailto:coredump@gifford.co.uk] > > Sent: 02 April 2003 20:02 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Victor Keyboard Identification > > > > > > Thomas Martin wrote: > > > You can also see them labeled as Sirius machines from > > > time to time. > > > > Yes, I'd have called it a Sirius keyboard! Mine are darker in colour, > > though; dark grey instead of beige. I have a spare Sirius I, > > if anyone > > in the UK would like one -- as designed by Chuck Peddle. > > > > -- > > John Honniball > > coredump@gifford.co.uk From Eurtly at Southslope.net Mon Apr 7 12:46:37 2003 From: Eurtly at Southslope.net (Eurtly) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: SN76477N Message-ID: I have been looking for the Chip " SN76477N " from Radio Shack, they do not sell it any more and have no idea where to find one. Could you help me on this matter. I designed a circuit over 20 years ago and now I have decided to put it together, this requires (2) SN76477N sound chips... Thank You Mr. Eurtly Parker Email: Eurtly@Engineer.com From ic349 at bellsouth.net Mon Apr 7 12:46:43 2003 From: ic349 at bellsouth.net (Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: gorilla banana printer Message-ID: Still need one? mike From ddavids2 at midsouth.rr.com Mon Apr 7 12:47:00 2003 From: ddavids2 at midsouth.rr.com (EdselDavidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Any info on the Hughes HM-4118 computer? Message-ID: <000601c2fc87$98f56a00$2f631818@midsouth.rr.com> I Too worked on the HM4118 in Gruenstadt ,Germany in 1973.I was stationed at Sembach, AB. Were you trained by Malbury and Mr. Short at Keesler?Have no Idea where you might find one. Eddie Davidson From lengyel.ba at mellon.com Mon Apr 7 12:47:06 2003 From: lengyel.ba at mellon.com (Lengyel Brian A) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 stuff wanted Message-ID: <20030407103117.26857.qmail@mellon.com> Good Day I have the following available for sale: Commodore 64 Keyboard (with power supply) Commodore 64 (1541-II) Floppy Disk Drive (with power supply and connection to keyboard) NO hookup to TV (can be purchased for less than 10 bucks at Radio Shack) ***GAMES INCLUDED IN PACKAGE*** 1988 Edition President Elect (with manual) 2-Commodore 1541 Test/Demo Diskettes Advanced Dungeons & Dragons "Heroes Of The Lance" (with box and manual) 1988 Advanced Dungeons & Dragons "War Of The Lance" (with box and manual) 1989 Blue Powder Grey Smoke Garde' (with manual) 1986 Broadsides (1983) California Games # 1, # 2, # 3 Commodore 64 C Geos (1986) Commodore 64 C Geos Applications (1986) Confilict In Vietnam (with manual) 1986 Faceoff (1989) Frankenstein (Side 1)---Jack The Ripper (Side 2)---Dracula (Side 3)---Wolfman (Side 4)1987 Geoploitique 1990 (1983) GFL Championship Football (1986) Halls Of Montezuma 1987 Hat Trick (1987) Master Type (1984) MECC Expeditions (1986) Nam (with manual) 1985 Napoleon In Russia (with box and manual) 1987 Patton vs. Rommel (1986) Power Play Hockey (USA vs. USSR) 1988 Road War 2000 (with box and manual) 1986 Russia (1987) Sim City "The Original Simulator" 1989 Sons Of Liberty (1988) Sportime "Omni-Play" Basketball (with manual) 1989 Street Sports Basketball (1987) Strike Fleet (1987) The President Is Missing (2 Disks) 1988 Triple Pack (Beach Head I, II and Raid Over Moscow) 1986 War In The South Pacific (with manual) 1987 Wasteland (2 Disks) 1986 14 Miscellaneous Disks (unlabeled) can erase and use as spare blanks ***Added Bonus*** Computes First Book Of Commodore 64 (basic programs for 19 games) Please let me know if you have ANY questions. Thanks for your time and consideration. From patrick at evocative.com Mon Apr 7 12:50:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304071658.JAA28120@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > Hi All > Well, I dug out my H89. I turned it on, POP, turned it > off. Smoke comes from the one side. > Well, it looked like one of the 2.2 uf tantalums decided Oh yeah... that's fully the behavior of the "popcorn" machine I referred to earlier. > Years ago, I'd place a second drive in the machine by > installing two half height drives. The boot drive it > behind the other drive so I can't see what the difficulty > is with the other disk. I just bought a handful of half-height drives and was about to launch into this myself. Did you feel a need to upgrade anything in the power supply before doing this, or is it up to running both motors simultaneously if/when that occurs? Patrick From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Apr 7 13:00:01 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <200304071057540485.0895411B@192.168.42.129> Hey, Tim, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 05-Apr-03 at 13:44 classiccmp@trailing-edge.com wrote: >In the hope that others can mirror them, I've put up over 1000 >DEC manuals from the late 80's and early 90's up on the web. They >hardly seem "classic" to me, since when I started collecting computers >these items were brand new, but they *do* meet the 10-year definition! > > http://www.trailing-edge.com/~shoppa/dec94mds/ > >Again, if you do set up a publicly-accessible mirror for these I would >appreciate it. The last thing I want to do is hoard stuff I've been >sitting on for many years. Wow! That's great, except for one little problem. I get '403: Access forbidden' when I try to get to it. Methinks you've got a permissions issue. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Apr 7 13:06:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette In-Reply-To: <200304071658.JAA28120@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030407130719.0800c4c8@mail.ubanproductions.com> "LISP", excellent! I would like a copy of that. Any docs with it? --tom At 09:58 AM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Hi All > Well, I dug out my H89. I turned it on, POP, turned it >off. Smoke comes from the one side. > Well, it looked like one of the 2.2 uf tantalums decided >to give up. I snipped it with my diagonals and brought >it up again. No smoke this time and all the voltages >looked good. As the screen came back to life, the H: >prompt showed. > I next put one of my bootable disk in and typed B(CR). >Success! It is alive. I tried a number of disk and >some had problems. I tracked it down to the disk not >rotating. I'm not sure at what point they fail to rotate. >I don't know if the motor isn't turning, the belt is >slipping or the clamp on the disk is slipping. It seems >that many of the disk envelopes are tight. This should >be a warning. Don't stack disk on their sides. > Years ago, I'd place a second drive in the machine by >installing two half height drives. The boot drive it >behind the other drive so I can't see what the difficulty >is with the other disk. > It got late so I'll fiddle some more, later. I was looking at >the HDOS stuff I have and I also found a LISP for the H89 >as well. I'll work some more on making a image to serial >to transfer this stuff to a PC. >Dwight From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Apr 7 13:30:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web References: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <200304071057540485.0895411B@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <076301c2fd33$58a67aa0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Lane" To: Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: Re: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web > Hey, Tim, > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 05-Apr-03 at 13:44 classiccmp@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > Wow! That's great, except for one little problem. > > I get '403: Access forbidden' when I try to get to it. > > Methinks you've got a permissions issue. ;-) > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior > to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) > Tim, I was able to see the site over the weekend, but I also get a (403) permissions error today. Stuart Johnson From h.godavari at shaw.ca Mon Apr 7 13:35:00 2003 From: h.godavari at shaw.ca (harsha godavari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: NEC Prospeed 386sx memory References: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <060a01c2fbb2$a09958f0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <3E91C4CA.128D040D@shaw.ca> Hi: I was given a NEC Prospeed laptop. It came with a 4 mb memory module. I would like to upgrade the memory to 8mb atleast. However this is a small pcb (almost 3" x 4") with 4 or so dram chips mounted on it. It seems 4mb module wass the biggest module available. My question is can this be modified to allow 8 or more mb of RAM or or there any adapters available which can accept the more common (now) sdram modules? Thanks for your help Regards Harsha Godavari From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Apr 7 13:38:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Power supply question Message-ID: <200304071829.OAA08910@wordstock.com> Hello all, Has anyone heard of the Enermax power supplys? The model number from the (now non-working) is EG150S-V. The special thing about this supply is its size: 4" W X 5" D X 2.5" H Thanks for any help!, Bryan From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 7 13:59:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: breathing life into old chips Message-ID: <20030407185651.65611.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> > FWIW, Thomson-built ICCn chassis are _notorious_ for dry joints! thanks all, that does seem to have cured it - I resoldered all the components around that IC, and it's run for the whole afternoon now without a failure so I'm pretty confident it's back up and running. cheers Jules For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Apr 7 14:00:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Victor Keyboard Identification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030407195046.00b5aee8@slave> At 19:28 04/04/2003, you wrote: >You and me both, mate :) It's not top of my priority list however. Getting >some space is at the top of my list for now! Heh, that should be the case with me as well, but my gathering instinct is somewhat stronger than my tidying instinct... Besides, I've still got 3/4 of a shed to fill.... :) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 7 14:03:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette Message-ID: <200304071900.MAA28189@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Patrick Rigney" > >> Hi All >> Well, I dug out my H89. I turned it on, POP, turned it >> off. Smoke comes from the one side. >> Well, it looked like one of the 2.2 uf tantalums decided > >Oh yeah... that's fully the behavior of the "popcorn" machine I referred to >earlier. > >> Years ago, I'd place a second drive in the machine by >> installing two half height drives. The boot drive it >> behind the other drive so I can't see what the difficulty >> is with the other disk. > >I just bought a handful of half-height drives and was about to launch into >this myself. Did you feel a need to upgrade anything in the power supply >before doing this, or is it up to running both motors simultaneously if/when >that occurs? > >Patrick > Hi Patrick I used it this way for a number of years without any problems. I do have the drives setup so that the select turns the motors off when not being accessed. I believe this is the same as the original. This is a jumper select on most drives. I did have to file a little material from the bezel where the drives fit into the front. Other than that it was reasonable. You can't see this with the drive installed. You do need to make sure that all of the shielding is put back in. It is close to the yoke of the tube and needs to be protected from the stray fields( writes will fail ). I don't recall if I had to drill any more mount holes but I'll know more as I debug my disk spinning problem. Of course, you need a new cable ( easily made ) and an extra power connector. Make sure that only one drive has the terminator( this is often missed by many ). The controller was originally setup to run 3 drives, one inside and two outside. Dual drives are handy. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 7 16:58:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: FH IBM 5 1/4" floppy drives Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030407134159.46e7e216@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Who was asking me for a couple of these a few weeks ago? Reply by direct E-mail. Joe From red at bears.org Mon Apr 7 17:02:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: New to list - with a DG/UX question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Saturday, April 5, 2003, at 09:00 PM, Alan Greenstreet wrote: > I am new to the list joining you from New Zealand. Welcome. I hope you have the patience to endure with the long-winded off-topic tirades that we seem doomed to repeat endlessly. > The Aviion came without any OS or media - my searches have lead to the > conclusion that this unit will only run DG/UX and nothing else. If it's an m88k machine, your conclusion is accurate. Folks have been working on porting NetBSD to the AViiON family, but I doubt it's far enough along to be anything but frustrating at this point. > Well... a copy of DG/UX 4.0 arrived in the post yesterday and I have > been trying to get things moving ever since. > Does anyone on the list know if I can boot the OS from CD. My CD drive > is recognised (ID3) but I get nowhere. Yes, you can boot the OS from CD. It would be helpful to know what you've tried, and what error messages the system is generating. If 4.0 came before 5.4, it may be too old for the 8500, but I'm not sure that either is the case. It's on CD so it can't be THAT old. I've only played with stuff in the 5.4R3 era. It's possible that "DG/UX 4.0" is a marketing designation for what would've been 5.4R4, a la the situation with SunOS 5.7 and Solaris 7. Another possibility is that the CD you have only contains support for IA32 AViiON systems. > Would copying the CD to tape be a better option? No. ok bear From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 7 17:15:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030407181247.467fd242@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up an old IBM XT today and it has a 3.5" floppy drive in it (and it works!) Anybody ever heard of this? The drive has it's own controller card and both it and the drive appear to be IBM parts. )I haven't pulled everything apart to be sure.) FWIW the computer also has a FH 5 1/4" floppy drive and a HH 5 1/4" 10 Mb hard drive with a Seagate logo on the front of it. Anybody know if this is an original XT hard drive or a replacement drive? It's been so long since I've seen an original XT with the 10 Mb drive that I don't remember much about it. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 7 17:21:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: anybody want a Dauphin LapPro 286 User's Manual? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030407181929.10ffbd62@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found today in a scrap today. I figured someone would want it. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 7 17:24:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Need help with ASR33 tape reader - major frustration! In-Reply-To: from "Charles" at Apr 6, 3 09:09:30 pm Message-ID: > I can't get my ASR33's tape reader to stop missing occasional > characters! I have lubed it and tried setting it according to the > procedures in the manual but that is very frustrating since many > of the adjustments interact. May I ask a very simple question. What machine are you using this with (from the description below, I assume a PDP8). If it _is_ a PDP8, do you have the reader control relay mod fitted correctly? If not, then you _will_ drop characters I think. > > Using a test tape punched on the same TTY with 72 printable > characters per line (incrementing from space through Z and > punctuation, then LF + CR at end of each line), if I carefully > adjust the detent position I can achieve one (and occasionally 3 > or 4 in a row) "skipped" characters about every 10-20 lines which > is roughly once every 1000 characters on average. That's very odd. The most obvious mechanical problem would be wear on the ratchet wheel teeth in the reader. But that would cause problems once (or n times) for every revolution of that wheel (and the drive sproket) -- say every 20 characters. Not random problems a few times in every 1000 characters You say it drops characters. Do you mean the tape feeds 2 chracters for one solenoid pulse? Or that for some reason the ASR33 sometimes fails to transmit a character (i.e. the distributor clutch doesn't engage for some reason)? Or does it send the correct number of characters but mangle a few of them? > > I can load short tapes like the BIN loader and then the second > short section of 4K FOCAL successfully, but the long first section > of FOCAL (which takes over 10 mins. to read in) invariably gives a > checksum error. In other words, not good enough. > > The missing characters are not being read into the data stream at > all, nor are the previous or next characters duplicated. I wrote a > program to just read the characters into the AC and halt if a NUL > (000) is read. All 0's are indeed being read on the missed > character and I think this is because the contact pins are all > held down if there is a "misfeed" where the tape moves just enough > to put the pins between rows of holes, but not far enough to skip > to the next. So what you're saying is that it sends the correct number of chracters, but some of them are corrupted to 0's? Either your read pins are misaligned (they should come through the middle of the tape holes -- check this), or the contacts are sometimes not making properly. Clean them, and check the wiring --- particularly to the 'common' plate contact -- for problems. Try running the reader without tape, with the EOT sensor held down. It should then send all 1's. Check that it does (use the PDP8 for this with a similar program to yhe one you've written already, just get it to halt if the character is not all 1's). Let it run for many minutes. If it halts, then it's a good bet you've got contact or wiring trouble (it can't be alignment with the tape problems, as there's no tape in the reader). A really Heath Robbinson (Rube Goldberg?) trick that I once used for something like this goes as follows. 1) Set up the system as you have it with the ASR33 in a darkroom. 2) Arrange for the PDP8 to set an output bit if it reads a NUL. Get that output bit to trigger an electronic flashgu (an SCR is useful here, an opto-isolated one even better). 3) focus a camera on the reader mechanism. Set the aperture appropriately for the flashgun. Make the room dark, hold the shutter open on B, let it run 4) When the flash fires, close the shutter, turn everything off 5) Develop the film and hope that it shows you what the problem is. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 7 17:24:07 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: SN76477N In-Reply-To: from "Eurtly" at Apr 6, 3 12:45:49 pm Message-ID: > I have been looking for the Chip " SN76477N " from Radio Shack, they do not > sell it any more > and have no idea where to find one. > > Could you help me on this matter. All I can tell you is that it was a Texas Instruments part, long since discontinued. But at least it was once available for other sources than Radio Shack so there might still be some around -tony From shirsch at adelphia.net Mon Apr 7 17:27:01 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Need docs for Microsoft Premium Softcard //e In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Sigh. > > I am hoping someone has the docs to the Microsoft Premium Softcard //e. > This is a nice Z80 card for the Apple //e that allows one to run CP/M. > > Specifically, I need to know how MS assigned the serial card. I am trying > to use PIP to copy a file out to the serial port. There was a problem with the original OS release for the Premium Softcard. This is going back almost 20 years, but IIRC either the PUN: and RDR: devices are bass-ackwards or numbered incorrectly (was there any notion of more than one PUN:?). > Barring that, I need to > know if the utility program called APDOS that comes on the master system > disk can copy files *from* CP/M *to* Apple DOS. As far as I can tell, it > seems you can only copy from Apple DOS to CP/M. > > Lastly, if anyone with knowledge of utilities that allowed one to transfer > CP/M files to Apple DOS can inform me of such, I would really appreciate > it. The reason I know about punch and reader is that I was trying to setup to do exactly that. Ended up using modem7 or equivalent to transfer things over from our H89. There is definitely an xmodem or mex overlay floating around for it. > > I have no idea where my manual for this went :( I have one here... somewhere. If you are still having problems From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 7 17:43:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030407181247.467fd242@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > I picked up an old IBM XT today and it has a 3.5" floppy drive in it > (and it works!) Anybody ever heard of this? Presumably, that is a 720K drive (subject to what the extra controller is). IBM sold internal and external 720Ks for the XT. To do it their way, you need PC-DOS 3.20 or newer, and need to do a DRIVER.SYS in CONFIG.SYS. But you could also use a 720K with certain OEM (NON-IBM) versions of MS-DOS 2.11. And the PC-JX (not available in U.S.) was available with 720K drives. > The drive has it's own > controller card and both it and the drive appear to be IBM parts. )I > haven't pulled everything apart to be sure.) FWIW the computer also Do you mean that it is NOT connected to the same controller as the 5.25" drive? > has a FH 5 1/4" floppy drive and a HH 5 1/4" 10 Mb hard drive with a > Seagate logo on the front of it. Anybody know if this is an original > XT hard drive or a replacement drive? It's been so long since I've > seen an original XT with the 10 Mb drive that I don't remember much > about it. Which model Seagate? It is likely to be an aftermarket drive. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Apr 7 17:45:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Need info HP 28S Message-ID: <012901c2fd56$f72ea800$e90cdd40@oemcomputer> Anyone know the size or type of batteries used in this model? On the back cover it shows three batteries being used to power the calculator. Thanks in advance From dmabry at mich.com Mon Apr 7 17:48:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Need info HP 28S References: <012901c2fd56$f72ea800$e90cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3E91FF7B.3000205@mich.com> It takes 3 "N" cells. Radio Shaft sells them, for one. Keys wrote: > Anyone know the size or type of batteries used in this model? On the back > cover it shows three batteries being used to power the calculator. Thanks in > advance > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From ceo at coherent-logic.com Mon Apr 7 18:02:00 2003 From: ceo at coherent-logic.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? References: <3.0.6.16.20030407181247.467fd242@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005401c2fd59$67868120$8500000a@music> Joe, This is quite possible... Provided you have DOS 3.3+ and a controller with its own BIOS extensions. I have an XT machine (actually it's an original PC) that works much the same way, although the drive is unusable as I'm currently using DOS 3.21. As far as the hard drive goes, the original XT hard drive was a FH job with an IBM logo on the front of it. John +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | John P. Willis, MCP, SBI, NASA-STD-8739.5 | Coherent Logic Development | | Chief Executive Officer | "Multiplatform Solutions | | Coherent Logic Development | for a Multiplatform World" | +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | web: http://www.coherent-logic.com/ | | e-mail: ceo@coherent-logic.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 6:12 PM Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? > I picked up an old IBM XT today and it has a 3.5" floppy drive in it (and it works!) Anybody ever heard of this? The drive has it's own controller card and both it and the drive appear to be IBM parts. )I haven't pulled everything apart to be sure.) FWIW the computer also has a FH 5 1/4" floppy drive and a HH 5 1/4" 10 Mb hard drive with a Seagate logo on the front of it. Anybody know if this is an original XT hard drive or a replacement drive? It's been so long since I've seen an original XT with the 10 Mb drive that I don't remember much about it. > > Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 7 18:04:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Need info HP 28S In-Reply-To: <012901c2fd56$f72ea800$e90cdd40@oemcomputer> from "Keys" at Apr 7, 3 05:42:25 pm Message-ID: > Anyone know the size or type of batteries used in this model? On the back Sure. It takes 3 off N size cells. These are 1.5V each. Whatever you do, don't use the similar-sized 12V batteries (used, I believe in some car alarm key fobs, etc) which will totally ruin the calculator. N size cells are easy to obtain in the UK (even food supermarkets sell them), but I am told they're harder to get elsewhere. > cover it shows three batteries being used to power the calculator. Thanks in > advance > -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 7 18:17:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: <005401c2fd59$67868120$8500000a@music> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, John Willis wrote: > Joe, This is quite possible... Provided you have DOS 3.3+ and a > controller with its own BIOS extensions. I have an XT machine > (actually it's an original PC) that works much the same way, although > the drive is unusable as I'm currently using DOS 3.21. As far as the > hard drive goes, the original XT hard drive was a FH job with an IBM > logo on the front of it. PC-DOS 3.30, BIOS extensions, and a different controller card are needed for a 1.4M drive, but NOT for 720K. 720K uses same BIOS, same controller as 360K. The only difference is how many tracks it has. PC-DOS 3.20 has full support for 720K drives in all models. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From kittstr at access-4-free.com Mon Apr 7 18:18:00 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV Message-ID: <001501c2fd5b$a04da6d0$05463b41@amscomputer> Hi all. I was watching Malcom in the Middle last night and they had a classic computer storyline. The were cleaning out their garage and found a "Nortair" computer. It looked to me like an altair front panel with the base but no cover and no cards inside. Someone offered them $1300 for it but they wouldn't let one son keep the money so he broke it in half. Anyway, I just wondered if anyone else saw this. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Mon Apr 7 19:01:00 2003 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: SN76477N In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E9210BF.nailMS91L8D6W@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> BG Micro ( http://www.bgmicro.com/ ) had these chips as recently as a year or two ago, but alas I do not see them on their website anymore. (They do however have the once-ubiquitous LM3909!) They've got some other neat stuff, like the 5x7 LED arrays that HP used in their desktop calculator machinery. I hate to sound like a broken record, but most any sound synthesis that would've been done in a SN76477N or two 20 years ago (along with a pocketfull of R's and C's) can be done today with a $1 8-pin PIC... All that said, I have one SN76477N (along with the two acres of datasheet that came with it from Radio Shack) and no it's not for sale :-) Tim. From aeg at paradise.net.nz Mon Apr 7 19:19:00 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: New to list - with a DG/UX question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, Apr 8, 2003, at 09:59 Pacific/Auckland, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > If it's an m88k machine, your conclusion is accurate. Folks have been > working on porting NetBSD to the AViiON family, but I doubt it's far > enough along to be anything but frustrating at this point. Yes it is an m88k machine and I have tried the ports of NetBSD and OpenBSD both of which have developmental ports (mainly for the mvme88k boards). From what I've been told the Aviion has a completely separate I/O subsystem for which there is little info available (to quote the developer of the current port) - Lucky Me! :0) > Yes, you can boot the OS from CD. It would be helpful to know what > you've > tried, and what error messages the system is generating. I have found an archive of DG manuals for the Aviion http://www-csc.dg.com/csc/custdocsasp/ custdocs2.asp?category=014archv.asp and from here found some info on booting from CD. The system is recognising the CD drive and it spins up without any problems (I know it works as I have used it on my Sun systems). Typing "boot sd(ncsc(0,7),3,0)" should boot the install programme. I get the very unhelpful "unable to boot file sd(ncsc(0,7),3,0)" error message. There is no mention of this error message in the docs so far. > > If 4.0 came before 5.4, it may be too old for the 8500, but I'm not > sure > that either is the case. It's on CD so it can't be THAT old. Mmm... this is where I come unstuck... I have been searching for a copy of DG/UX for about 3 months, contacting many companies and seeing nothing on ebay (and local auctions). I eventually found a guy in Holland who listed it in his computer/software collection... he very kindly sent me a copy... I have no other information. > > I've only played with stuff in the 5.4R3 era. It's possible that "DG/UX > 4.0" is a marketing designation for what would've been 5.4R4, a la the > situation with SunOS 5.7 and Solaris 7. > > Another possibility is that the CD you have only contains support for > IA32 > AViiON systems. Again, this is a possibility. I have tried to read the CD using both Windows and Mac machines and neither recognise any contents so I can't glean any info from the CD itself. (I have written back to the guy who sent it to try and find out a little more). > >> Would copying the CD to tape be a better option? > > No. Didn't think so... ;0) > ok > bear From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Apr 7 19:29:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? Message-ID: <07040397.57779@webbox.com> the hard drive is definitely a replacement. The orginal XT harddrive was a full height and I believe it was a Seagate ST412 (10 meg). As for the floppy controller, it may have a bios extension on board in rom that contains the driver for it unless there was a XT bios upgrade available for it, but I don't recall that or IBM creating a 3.5" board for the XT best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: Joe >To: cctech@classiccmp.org >Date: 4/7/03 10:12:47 AM > I picked up an old IBM XT today and it has a 3.5" floppy drive in it (and it works!) Anybody ever heard of this? The drive has it's own controller card and both it and the drive appear to be IBM parts. )I haven't pulled everything apart to be sure.) FWIW the computer also has a FH 5 1/4" floppy drive and a HH 5 1/4" 10 Mb hard drive with a Seagate logo on the front of it. Anybody know if this is an original XT hard drive or a replacement drive? It's been so long since I've seen an original XT with the 10 Mb drive that I don't remember much about it. > > Joe From patrick at evocative.com Mon Apr 7 20:25:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:51 2005 Subject: Need info HP 28S In-Reply-To: <3E91FF7B.3000205@mich.com> Message-ID: > Keys wrote: > > Anyone know the size or type of batteries used in this model? > On the back > > cover it shows three batteries being used to power the > calculator. Thanks in > > advance I have a 27S, which may or not be similar, but does take three button cells and has markings like what you described. Mine are MS76. I think Energizer 357 is equivalent, also SR44. --Patrick From dholland at woh.rr.com Mon Apr 7 20:45:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: Need info HP 28S In-Reply-To: <3E91FF7B.3000205@mich.com> References: <012901c2fd56$f72ea800$e90cdd40@oemcomputer> <3E91FF7B.3000205@mich.com> Message-ID: <1049766180.17704.8.camel@crusader> Yah, N cells sound about right, if I remember the one I used to have many moons ago.. Careful of that fool battery clip, the plastic is _easily_ broken. (And much of the "cool factor" is lost by masking tape wrapped around the thing. :-) ) David On Mon, 2003-04-07 at 18:45, Dave Mabry wrote: > It takes 3 "N" cells. Radio Shaft sells them, for one. > > Keys wrote: > > Anyone know the size or type of batteries used in this model? On the back > > cover it shows three batteries being used to power the calculator. Thanks in > > advance > > > > . > > > > > -- > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com > Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team > NACD #2093 From charlesmorris at direcway.com Mon Apr 7 21:05:01 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: DF32 emulator In-Reply-To: <20030407174227.6792.70842.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030407174227.6792.70842.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <32b49vkfvv8eav4eu8cvticdj9jvvpu42a@4ax.com> On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 12:42:27 -0500, you wrote: >... shows the use of DMCA and DCEA to clear a disk, rather than DEAL. > > >Not exactly what you were looking for, but perhaps someone else has the Crap. Oh well, I was planning a Revision B anyway, to take care of the bugs I already discovered (such as DFSE skipping on error like an RF08 instead of skip-on-no-error). I guess I'll have to figure out how to clear the LS191 counters I used for registers. Maybe there's a 4 bit counter with a clear input I can use. The simplest way would be to force 0's into the load inputs to the counters for EMA and EA and strobe the clock line with that IOT, but that would require a couple of chips and there is just no more room (and keep the board "cheap", standard 160x100mm Eurocard size and two-layer). I could put a lot more logic on a 4-layer board but they cost a LOT more. All those 12-bit busses take up a lot of PCB real estate! Meanwhile I think it'll work with a non-expanded (4K) machine like my 8/L ;) Back to the drawing board! -Charles From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 7 21:14:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: Need info HP 28S In-Reply-To: <012901c2fd56$f72ea800$e90cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030407214420.10f760c8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Yeah, It uses three 1.5 volt N cells. Be dammed sure you don't put in 12 volt batterirs by mistake. The batteries connect DIRECTLY to the CPU and they'll burn it up in an instant. I've had a good number of people that have tried to run them off of the 12 VDC cigarette lighter batteries and then send them to me to try and fix them but it hopeless after they put 36 volts into the CPU! Joe At 05:42 PM 4/7/03 -0500, you wrote: >Anyone know the size or type of batteries used in this model? On the back >cover it shows three batteries being used to power the calculator. Thanks in >advance From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 7 21:14:13 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030407181247.467fd242@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030407220808.10f74374@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:41 PM 4/7/03 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: >> I picked up an old IBM XT today and it has a 3.5" floppy drive in it >> (and it works!) Anybody ever heard of this? > >Presumably, that is a 720K drive (subject to what the extra controller >is). IBM sold internal and external 720Ks for the XT. To do it their >way, you need PC-DOS 3.20 or newer, and need to do a DRIVER.SYS in >CONFIG.SYS. But you could also use a 720K with certain OEM >(NON-IBM) versions of MS-DOS 2.11. > >And the PC-JX (not available in U.S.) was available with 720K drives. > > >> The drive has it's own >> controller card and both it and the drive appear to be IBM parts. )I >> haven't pulled everything apart to be sure.) FWIW the computer also > >Do you mean that it is NOT connected to the same controller as the >5.25" drive? My mistake. It IS on the same controller. It didn't look like it till I got it apart. > >> has a FH 5 1/4" floppy drive and a HH 5 1/4" 10 Mb hard drive with a >> Seagate logo on the front of it. Anybody know if this is an original >> XT hard drive or a replacement drive? It's been so long since I've >> seen an original XT with the 10 Mb drive that I don't remember much >> about it. >Which model Seagate? It is likely to be an aftermarket drive. I expect that you're right. But it definitely appears to be connected an an IBM controller card. Interesting tidbit; the controller has BOTH data cables installed on it even though there's only one hard drive. The cables are stacked one on top of the other and taped together. I think this is the only time that I've ever seen a controller that came with two data cables. FINALLY got the drive out! Two screws on the side (inside side, of course!) had backed out partially and jammed it up good. The drive is a ST 238R (32Mb) so it's definitely not an original drive. Joe > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 7 21:14:19 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: Need info HP 28S In-Reply-To: References: <3E91FF7B.3000205@mich.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030407221146.467f5b52@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The 27 s and 28 s are completely different models. The 28C and 28S are physically similar but the S has more memory. Joe At 06:22 PM 4/7/03 -0700, you wrote: >> Keys wrote: >> > Anyone know the size or type of batteries used in this model? >> On the back >> > cover it shows three batteries being used to power the >> calculator. Thanks in >> > advance > >I have a 27S, which may or not be similar, but does take three button cells >and has markings like what you described. Mine are MS76. I think Energizer >357 is equivalent, also SR44. --Patrick From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Apr 7 21:28:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030407220808.10f74374@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > I expect that you're right. But it definitely appears to be > connected an an IBM controller card. Interesting tidbit; the controller > has BOTH data cables installed on it even though there's only one hard > drive. The cables are stacked one on top of the other and taped > together. I think this is the only time that I've ever seen a > controller that came with two data cables. FWIW, All of the XTs and ATs I've taken apart have had both data cables installed, and taped together like you said. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 7 21:29:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: Anyone need any IBM XT parts? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030407222728.10ff3210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up an IBM XT today to get the FH drive for one of the list members. Does anyone need any of the other parts? It has IBM CGA card, IBM HD controller, IBM floppy drive controller card with port on the back, IBM 3.5" floppy drive with black front and blue button, fits in a 5 1/4" HH opening, also serial/parallel port card, 256/640K Motherboard. I don't have a CGA monitor so I installed another video card and I've been using the machine all afternoon. The PSU is bad, but everything else seems to work. Also have a Seagate st238R hard drive. It's not reading cluster #1 so it's not bootable but otherwise it's working fine. LL formatting should (may?) cure the problem. No math coproccessor. Best offer plus shipping on any or all parts. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 7 21:38:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: Need info HP 28S In-Reply-To: <1049766180.17704.8.camel@crusader> References: <3E91FF7B.3000205@mich.com> <012901c2fd56$f72ea800$e90cdd40@oemcomputer> <3E91FF7B.3000205@mich.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030407223550.468729dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:42 PM 4/7/03 -0400, David wrote: >Yah, N cells sound about right, if I remember the one I used to have >many moons ago.. > >Careful of that fool battery clip, the plastic is _easily_ broken. (And >much of the "cool factor" is lost by masking tape wrapped around the >thing. :-) ) Good point! The batteries have a tendency to press againt the cover and push it sideways out of it's slot. Then when you really press on it to try and close it it jams and you break it. Press the batteries into the calculator and try to keep them from pressing against the battery cover as you install it. Make sure that you get the cover lined up properly in it's slot before you press it closed. Joe From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 7 22:38:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV In-Reply-To: <001501c2fd5b$a04da6d0$05463b41@amscomputer> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Andrew Strouse wrote: > Hi all. I was watching Malcom in the Middle last night and they had a classic > computer storyline. The were cleaning out their garage and found a "Nortair" > computer. It looked to me like an altair front panel with the base but no > cover and no cards inside. Someone offered them $1300 for it but they > wouldn't let one son keep the money so he broke it in half. Anyway, I just > wondered if anyone else saw this. Wow, that's crazy. Classic computer themes are now being featured in cheesy sitcoms. I guess that name is supposed to be a catenation of "Northstar" and "Altair". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 7 22:52:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030407220808.10f74374@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > My mistake. It IS on the same controller. It didn't look like it till I got it apart. Is it a 720K? (look for a media sensor in the drive for a quick but not certain test) If so, then it has no need for any difference in cntroller or BIOS than a 360K. > >Which model Seagate? It is likely to be an aftermarket drive. > I expect that you're right. But it definitely appears to be > connected an an IBM controller card. Interesting tidbit; the > controller has BOTH data cables installed on it even though there's > only one hard drive. The cables are stacked one on top of the other > and taped together. I think this is the only time that I've ever seen > a controller that came with two data cables. Yeah, IBM always did that (taping the cables together, prefolded to fit tidily in the case) That tape is prbably pretty thoroughly decayed by now. > FINALLY got the drive out! Two screws on the side (inside side, of > course!) had backed out partially and jammed it up good. The drive is > a ST 238R (32Mb) so it's definitely not an original drive. I think that the R means that it is rated for RLL use. The original stock IBM hard drive controller came set for 10M, but could be jumpered (solder jumpers or put in a dipswitch) for IIRC, 5M, 10M, 16M, 26M? Minor bad news: on the XT (not AT), there were incompatabilities between different controllers, so the drive needs to be reformatted to switch to a different brand of controller! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 7 23:23:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: DF32 emulator In-Reply-To: <32b49vkfvv8eav4eu8cvticdj9jvvpu42a@4ax.com> Message-ID: <20030408042114.34852.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Charles wrote: > On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 12:42:27 -0500, you wrote: > > >... shows the use of DMCA and DCEA to clear a disk, rather than DEAL. . . . > I guess I'll have to figure out how to clear the LS191 counters I > used for registers... The simplest way would... require a couple > of chips and there is just no more room (and keep the board "cheap", > standard 160x100mm Eurocard size and two-layer). SMT? I've done a bit of SO soldering and it's not that hard. A decent temp-controlled iron and some masking tape or blu-tack to hold the parts in place so you can tack down the corners. However you solve it, don't give up. This is a cool idea that just needs a little tweaking. -ethan From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Apr 7 23:43:30 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: <3E8DDCB0.10306@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of John Honniball > Sent: 04 April 2003 20:28 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: IBM 5161 > > > Witchy wrote: > > A surprise consignment arrived for me this morning - an IBM > 5150 in not bad > > condition complete with keyboard/monitor and a 5161 expansion box, spare > > expansion card and 2 extender cables..... > > Just had a look at the images on the Binary Dinosaurs site, and I see > that you have a blue, full-length card with an 8X305 on it. This is > a bit-slice CPU chip, so I'm curious as to what this card is. Does > anyone recognise it? It's a *something* Decision card, complete with a BNC port......I really should've noted it's name as it struck me as odd, as well as the size of the CPU; still, the machine is easily accessible downstairs so I can dig it out tomorrow and photograph it properly. Could it have been ethernet related? There's KA9Q software on the HD in the expansion too, which is why I think that. More info tomorrow :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Apr 7 23:43:52 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 05 April 2003 00:50 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: IBM 5161 > > > > Reading some websites yesterday there was also a bug in early > versions of > > the BIOS that meant certain slots in the expander couldn't be used at > > particular ROM addresses, which must've made installing new > cards a fun task > > if you didn't know that :) > > Impossible!... All the slots in the expansion unit are the same (they're > bussed pin-pin). There is no way that some cards will work in some slots > and not others. Hm, that makes sense, so all I can assume is the site I was reading was wrong, unless it's possible for cards not to work in the expansion *period* because of this bug? cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Apr 7 23:44:01 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: new computers... Finally! In-Reply-To: <20030404193040.45391.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: 04 April 2003 20:31 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: new computers... Finally! > > I don't recall ever seeing blue. *Green* was the one you saw most > often - typically caused by the Agnes chip working its way out of > its socket (later units had a small spring-steel keeper over the > top of the chip). Green meant that something was wrong with accessing > CHIP RAM (*most* often a bad/loose Agnes, but not exclusively). The > other common color was gray/white which just meant that the lowest level > stuff worked, but it wasn't loading/running OS code. I have seen Red > and Yellow, but they aren't very common. Black, of course, with no > color shifts at all, means that nothing is happening (bad PSU, bad CPU, > bad ROM...) I got this from every web page I found mentioning boot screen colours, for instance: http://www.amicue.org/TechStuff/amigaboot.html and http://www.nyx.net/~rdavis/AmigaHints2.html#BootColor > Is is possible that the "blue" you are seeing isn't really a true "blue" > (as in it's a black screen with the colors/brightness turned way up; or > more of a deep blue, almost maroon, which could be the 2.0 background > color with no disk image/text on it?) If it's a primary, saturated, > bright blue (bluer than the desktop of a Windoze machine), then it might > be a signal from the ROMs that something is wrong. A darker, muddy blue > is probably something else. I got the feeling the signal was auto-tuned with a modern TV so the picture would be as good as it could get; there's nothing to stop the custom chips dying after nearly 17 years existence - these are CBM related chips we're talking about :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Apr 7 23:44:08 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? References: <3.0.6.16.20030407181247.467fd242@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001101c2fd57$4e4ac420$6500a8c0@starship1> Joe, Wow, major flashbacks!!! I remember installing my 1st 3.5" into an AT, not XT but I do recall there was a big routine that we had to go through to install a bunch of drivers and such to allow the system to recognize and use the 3.5" disk drive. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 6:12 PM Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? > I picked up an old IBM XT today and it has a 3.5" floppy drive in it (and it works!) Anybody ever heard of this? The drive has it's own controller card and both it and the drive appear to be IBM parts. )I haven't pulled everything apart to be sure.) FWIW the computer also has a FH 5 1/4" floppy drive and a HH 5 1/4" 10 Mb hard drive with a Seagate logo on the front of it. Anybody know if this is an original XT hard drive or a replacement drive? It's been so long since I've seen an original XT with the 10 Mb drive that I don't remember much about it. > > Joe From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Apr 7 23:44:14 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: SN76477N In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Eurtly > Sent: 06 April 2003 20:46 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: SN76477N > > > I have been looking for the Chip " SN76477N " from Radio Shack, > they do not > sell it any more > and have no idea where to find one. > > Could you help me on this matter. > > I designed a circuit over 20 years ago and now I have decided to put it > together, > this requires (2) SN76477N sound chips... BG Micro sell those for approx. $7 plus shipping, you can get 'em at www.bgmicro.com. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From rachael at rachael.dyndns.org Mon Apr 7 23:44:20 2003 From: rachael at rachael.dyndns.org (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: sco unix Message-ID: <530.228T1700T403020rachael@rachael.dyndns.org> Hi I found a SCO software diskette package box, but I`m not sure all the disks are there. "SCO unix system v/386 Rel: 2.0.0d volume: 1" "SCO CGI n286 rel. 1.1.0e volume: 1-3" "SCO Xsight rel 2.3.0j volume:1-2" "Open Desktop rel 1.1.0 p21-p37", suspect that I lack the first 0-20 disks for this. "Open Desktop update F uf1-uf2" anyone knows how many disks there is supposed to be ? regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- CBM, Amiga,Vintage hardware collector Email: rachael()rachael.dyndns.org url: http://rachael.dyndns.org From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Apr 7 23:44:26 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: Need info HP 28S In-Reply-To: <012901c2fd56$f72ea800$e90cdd40@oemcomputer> References: <012901c2fd56$f72ea800$e90cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3914.4.20.168.221.1049764271.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Anyone know the size or type of batteries used in this model? On the > back cover it shows three batteries being used to power the calculator. > Thanks in advance N size alkaline. From melamy at earthlink.net Tue Apr 8 00:47:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 Message-ID: <07040397.81908@webbox.com> the "blue" card sounds more like an arcnet card rather than ethernet. Ethernet would have a BNC and a AUI 15 pin DB type connector on the back. The arcnet card was a coaxial cable type connection. The blue really rings a bell asn well as the processor. I did a bit of work in the early day with arcnet before ethernet became the standard. best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: "Witchy" >To: , >Date: 4/7/03 11:23:55 AM > > -----Original Message----- >> From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On >> Behalf Of John Honniball >> Sent: 04 April 2003 20:28 >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Re: IBM 5161 >> >> >> Witchy wrote: >> > A surprise consignment arrived for me this morning - an IBM >> 5150 in not bad >> > condition complete with keyboard/monitor and a 5161 expansion box, spare >> > expansion card and 2 extender cables..... >> >> Just had a look at the images on the Binary Dinosaurs site, and I see >> that you have a blue, full-length card with an 8X305 on it. This is >> a bit-slice CPU chip, so I'm curious as to what this card is. Does >> anyone recognise it? > >It's a *something* Decision card, complete with a BNC port......I really >should've noted it's name as it struck me as odd, as well as the size of the >CPU; still, the machine is easily accessible downstairs so I can dig it out >tomorrow and photograph it properly. Could it have been ethernet related? >There's KA9Q software on the HD in the expansion too, which is why I think >that. > >More info tomorrow :) > >cheers > >-- >adrian/witchy >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Apr 8 00:48:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: Update: Re: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Apr 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > As I've told Tim, I'm working on setting up a mirror here at Purdue. > After this finishes downloading (Probably in about another day with the > 2.8kB/sec rate I'm getting), I'll be hosting it on a machine that has much > more bandwith - it'll max out its network connection long before the > Internet connection here is maxed out. > > So, if anyone wants to wait a day to download this, I can promise a much > higher download rate. Of course the more people that wait, the faster I > can get the stuff downloaded for a mirror ;-). > > Once it's set up, I'll email everyone, the URL will be: > > http://purdueriots.com/classiccmp/dec94mds/ It looks like I might have actually finished downloading this before Tim's master went down. So, anyone who's interested can go ahead and download things from the above URL. Let me know if anyone finds broken links, so I know if the mirror isn't complete. I've also posted a MD5sums file with the MD5's of the files on the site, with a link on the index.html to it. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 8 00:50:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030407220808.10f74374@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > At 03:41 PM 4/7/03 -0700, you wrote: > >On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > >> I picked up an old IBM XT today and it has a 3.5" floppy drive in it > >> (and it works!) Anybody ever heard of this? > > > >Presumably, that is a 720K drive (subject to what the extra controller > >is). IBM sold internal and external 720Ks for the XT. To do it their > >way, you need PC-DOS 3.20 or newer, and need to do a DRIVER.SYS in > >CONFIG.SYS. But you could also use a 720K with certain OEM > >(NON-IBM) versions of MS-DOS 2.11. > > > >And the PC-JX (not available in U.S.) was available with 720K drives. > > > > > >> The drive has it's own > >> controller card and both it and the drive appear to be IBM parts. )I > >> haven't pulled everything apart to be sure.) FWIW the computer also > > > >Do you mean that it is NOT connected to the same controller as the > >5.25" drive? > > > My mistake. It IS on the same controller. It didn't look like it till I got it apart. > > > > > >> has a FH 5 1/4" floppy drive and a HH 5 1/4" 10 Mb hard drive with a > >> Seagate logo on the front of it. Anybody know if this is an original > >> XT hard drive or a replacement drive? It's been so long since I've > >> seen an original XT with the 10 Mb drive that I don't remember much > >> about it. > >Which model Seagate? It is likely to be an aftermarket drive. > > I expect that you're right. But it definitely appears to be connected an an IBM controller card. Interesting tidbit; the controller has BOTH data cables installed on it even though there's only one hard drive. The cables are stacked one on top of the other and taped together. I think this is the only time that I've ever seen a controller that came with two data cables. > > FINALLY got the drive out! Two screws on the side (inside side, > of course!) had backed out partially and jammed it up good. The > drive is a ST 238R (32Mb) so it's definitely not an original > drive. Interesting question is whether it is being used as a 21mb MFM drive or as a 33mb RLL. My guess would be 21mb. - don > > Joe > > > > >-- > >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From kevan at heydon.org Tue Apr 8 01:21:00 2003 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: The Garden of Eden Message-ID: <20030408061851.HIHZ5354.out012.verizon.net@Sqyok> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=;dcopt=ist;pos=banner1;sz=468x60;tile=1;ord=1047872763595[1].htm Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: PG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0icmVmcmVzaCIgY29udGVudD0iNzIwIiB1cmw9InVybCI+PGEg dGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9hZC5kb3VibGVjbGljay5uZXQvY2xpY2s7 aD12MnwyZjYzfDB8MHwlMmF8cDs1MzEwNTcxOzMtMDswOzY4NzI2OTg7MS00Njh8NjA7MjQ2 Nzk3MnwyNDY2MjA0fDE7OyUzZmh0dHA6Ly9hZC5kb3VibGVjbGljay5uZXQvY2xrOzUwNjYz OTY7Njg4Mzk4ODtrP2h0dHA6Ly93d3cuZ2V0c21hcnQuY29tL21vcnRnYWdlL0hvbWVCYW5u ZXI/YmFubmVyX2lkPVcxMzJYMzczOC9jYmE5OVBHU01HeTQ3OTY2MS9hbGxiYW5uZXJzLmdp ZiZzb3VyY2VpZD12bmQuZ3NtZy5hdHQubW9ydGdhZ2VzIj48aW1nIHNyYz0iaHR0cDovL20y LmRvdWJsZWNsaWNrLm5ldC92aWV3YWQvNzk4Mzk3L0dTTUdfNDY4eDYwX2Nob29zZWxvYW5f MDExNzAzLmdpZiIgYm9yZGVyPTAgYWx0PSJDbGljayBIZXJlISI+PC9hPjwvYm9keT48L2h0 bWw+ From kurtk7 at visi.com Tue Apr 8 01:41:01 2003 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (Kurtk7) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: anybody want a Dauphin LapPro 286 User's Manual? Message-ID: <003d01c2fd99$5e7d78a0$0200000a@p166mmx> Hello Yes, I would like it, if it is still available. Thanks Kurt -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: cctech@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, April 07, 2003 5:22 PM Subject: anybody want a Dauphin LapPro 286 User's Manual? >Found today in a scrap today. I figured someone would want it. > > Joe From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Tue Apr 8 05:53:01 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: New to list - with a DG/UX question References: <5BFCC3D2-6884-11D7-9D4E-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <010b01c2fdbc$b23e1fd0$0100a8c0@athlon> Hey- Whatcha doin' in my sandpit?!! DaveB(in CHCH) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Greenstreet" To: Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 11:06 AM Subject: Re: New to list - with a DG/UX question > On Sunday, Apr 6, 2003, at 17:07 Pacific/Auckland, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> > > > > Cool. What part? I lived in Christchurch for a few months at a time > > a few years back (1996, 1997) and I've been to Wellington to visit > > friends. > > > I'm in Christchurch and have been here for 9 months having moved from > the UK (Kent) prior to that I was living in Venezuela so I'm pleased to > settle down for a while. > > Apart from the DG Aviion (which I appreciate is a little OT) I have > some SparcStations (1's, 1+'s 2's - again _fairly_ recent, the odd > Apple, an Epson Equity LT-286e laptop. I got an Atari PC3 yesterday > (that looks like it fell down the stairs! - but it works) along with a > box of bits and pieces which I am wading through and I've a whole stack > of stuff that I haven't even started with yet... > > Considering I've had to start from scratch again (my last collection > was donated to a friend in the UK) I have managed to accumulate quite a > bit. As I said no real structure so far I'm just seeing what is about > locally and more often than not taking it home. > > Thanks for the welcome > > Alan From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Tue Apr 8 06:01:00 2003 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (Benjamin Gardiner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E92AB29.2010308@carnagevisors.net> > Once it's set up, I'll email everyone, the URL will be: > > http://purdueriots.com/classiccmp/dec94mds/ Also I am mirroring it, when I have got it all finished, it will be at: http://www.carnagevisors.com/classiccmp/dec94mds/ Benjamin -- one you lock the target two you bait the line three you slowly spread the net and four you catch the man Front 242 Headhunter From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Tue Apr 8 06:13:01 2003 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (Benjamin Gardiner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: <076301c2fd33$58a67aa0$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <3E8F2407.nailJIE11L9ER@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <200304071057540485.0895411B@192.168.42.129> <076301c2fd33$58a67aa0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <3E92ADE5.1090808@carnagevisors.net> I have now got it all mirrored... you can get these DEC manuals at the url I mentioned earlier http://www.carnagevisors.net/classiccmp/dec94mds/ Benjamin -- one you lock the target two you bait the line three you slowly spread the net and four you catch the man Front 242 Headhunter From jss at subatomix.com Tue Apr 8 06:33:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV In-Reply-To: References: <001501c2fd5b$a04da6d0$05463b41@amscomputer> Message-ID: <20030408113239.GA11861@subatomix.com> On Monday, April 7, 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Andrew Strouse wrote: > > Hi all. I was watching Malcom in the Middle last night and they had a > > classic computer storyline. The were cleaning out their garage and > > found a "Nortair" computer. It looked to me like an altair front panel > > with the base but no cover and no cards inside. > > I guess that name is supposed to be a catenation of "Northstar" and > "Altair". You give these people too much credit. I'd say "Norton" and "Altair". -- Jeffrey Sharp From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Apr 8 07:08:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: <3E92AB29.2010308@carnagevisors.net> References: <3E92AB29.2010308@carnagevisors.net> Message-ID: <20030408120614.GA7734@www.4mcnabb.net> I have mirrored Tim Shoppa's great collection at http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu/dec94mds . This site should have plenty of bandwidth since the machine is located in the Virginia Tech Information Services Building. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Tue Apr 8 07:11:00 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: Interfacing HP82905A Printer to HP85 Message-ID: Hello, I am having trouble getting an HP 82905A Option 002 dot matrix printer to work with my HP85. This printer appears to have two interfaces on the back. One appears to be a serial or parallel interface and the other is an HP-IB. There are no dip switch srttings on the back for setting the HP-IB address. Under a small cover on top I noticed a 6 position dip switch set with switches 1 and 2 "on" and 3 - 6 "off". I tried printer is 700, printer is 703, etc. I then set all the switches to on and then to off trying Printer is 700 without success. Unfortunately I do not have a manual for the printer. The printer on line light is on and I have paper in the machine. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks once again, RH From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 8 07:27:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030407220808.10f74374@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030408082428.44b7aa84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:47 PM 4/7/03 -0700, Don wrote: > >Interesting question is whether it is being used as a 21mb MFM >drive or as a 33mb RLL. My guess would be 21mb. It's an RLL drive and is 32 Mb according to my sources. Joe From jim at smithy.com Tue Apr 8 07:58:00 2003 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: Found that VS-85.. Message-ID: <1049805868.2246.16.camel@server.smithy.com> Finally found a Wang VS-85. Had to take it apart to get it in the house! I'll be putting up some information and pictures on my web site soon. The power supply had been removed, so I hacked together some cables and used a power supply from something else. It has 1MB main memory, an I/O controller for 16 serial (Wang coax-connected devices), four SMD disk ports, a tape drive controller, and a couple of other unknown I/O controllers. The most interesting part: A CE manual, describing the CPU architecture, theory, and lots of other useful stuff, along with complete schematics for the whole system, and most of the I/O controllers. This machine is 32-bit, with an instruction set similar to the IBM 370. The CPU consists of a ton of TTL chips, an ALU made of 74181's, and an 8KB writable control store. The microcode for the CPU resides on a 5 1/4" floppy disk. The floppy disk drive in the CPU cabinet can only load microcode, you can't use it to store data. Each I/O controller has its own CPU (or several). The old ones have a couple of 74181's and EPROMS with a control program, the newer ones use Z80's, and have RAM only, the control program gets loaded to them when you IPL the system. It's about the size of a clothes dryer. The standard power is 120vac, but the hacked-in power supply is 220vac. Draws about 4 amps @ 220vac. -- Jim Donoghue Smithy Co. (734) 913-6700 From kenziem at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 8 08:36:01 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: mimic 8080 ? Message-ID: <20030408133421.IJQK25567.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Does anyone remember the mimic 8080? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3411844327&rd=1 From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 8 08:55:01 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: Would like to introduce me In-Reply-To: <1049805868.2246.16.camel@server.smithy.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Herbert and I'm running the "First Computer Museum of Nova Scotia Society" in Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia, Canada. I hope to connect with other collectors and people interested in vintage computers here on that fine list. My special interest lies in vintage computers from the 70s and early 80s. My collection is constantly growing. I have a vast collection of manuals, books, software and other vintage computer related stuff. I recently got a great donation of a mint Heathkit H89 system, with all the manuals, disks etc. If somebody needs scans from those manuals etc. let me know and I can see what I can do. I also have a complete set of H8 manuals (H17 discdrive included). Of course I'm looking for stuff, too. A copy of a Altair 8800 manual, a Imsai 8080 manual and a Commodore PET (with the chicklet keys) manual for example. Greetings to you all Herbert From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Apr 8 09:09:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: Camintonn CMV-5000 Memory Board for PDP-11 Message-ID: <3E92D77E.E659825C@compsys.to> I have been trying to find out if there is a Camintonn memory board called a CMV-5000 which I understand is supposed to be similar to a Camintonn CMV-254. Both are 1 MegaByte memory on a dual Qbus card, but the CMV-5000 is also supposed to have Battery Backup option (??) and error correction. I would appreciate any help that can be provided in finding out is the above information is correct. I also wish to buy some of the CMV-5000. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 8 09:33:01 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, One thing I was always interested in - and the visitors in my Computer Museum often want to know - is how many of the very first personal computers are still in existence. By first PCs I mean the following machines: Kenbak 1 Scelbi 8h Mark-8 IBM 5100 Apple 1 Altair 8800 IMSAI 8080 I know it's quite difficult to figure out how many Altairs or IMSAIS are still around. But a search on the Mark-8 e.G. (on the Internet) turned out that there are only a handful still in existence. Greetings Herbert From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 8 10:13:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: MFM vs RLL or ST-225 vs ST-238R (was Re: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030408082428.44b7aa84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030408151003.52825.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > At 10:47 PM 4/7/03 -0700, Don wrote: > > > >Interesting question is whether it is being used as a 21mb MFM > >drive or as a 33mb RLL. My guess would be 21mb. > > > It's an RLL drive and is 32 Mb according to my sources. Does that mean that you confirmed that your controller is an RLL controller? There's no substantial difference between an ST-238R and an ST-225 except a) the label, and b) some manufacturing confidence that a tighter encoding scheme will not drop bits. The data cable holds analog signals. This is significantly different than an IDE drive (whose cable is all digital). The density of storage is entirely dependent on the nature of the controller. The quality of retention is dependent on the nature of the drive. People did attempt to stick an ST-225 on an RLL controller. Results were mixed. It was a "cheap" way to increase storage 50%, but if your drive had some weak spots, you would develop lots of data errors. Others chose to put ST-238Rs on MFM controllers. Results there were much better. You only got 21.4MB of storage (marketing MB, AFAIK), but you weren't taxing the surface as much as Seagate said you could. So, yes, your sources are correct - the ST-238R *does* do 32MB, but only when attached to an RLL controller (which you might very well have). -ethan P.S. - there were other arrangements than 614 x 4 x 17 when ST-506/ST-412 drives were used in non-PeeCee applications. One that immediately comes to mind is the Tandon drive (TM602S or TM603S) used in the Commodore D9060 and D9090 IEEE-488 hard drives. Due to the nature of Commodore "DOS" and its floppy origins, they chose not to change the block size of 256 bytes per block. Its internal OMTI controller did tracks of 32 sectors of 256 bytes for a total of 8192 bytes per track, not 8704 (17 x 512). Yes, to keep it on topic, the ST-225 will work in a D9060, but will only use the first 154 tracks). (see http://www.softwolves.pp.se/misc/arkiv/cbm-hackers/2/2264.html , among other things you can find googling for D9090) From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Tue Apr 8 10:38:00 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030408153528.93835.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> here are my guesses.... --- The Design Fort DTP wrote: > Hi all, > > One thing I was always interested in - and the > visitors in my Computer > Museum often want to know - is how many of the very > first personal computers > are still in existence. By first PCs I mean the > following machines: > Kenbak 1 10-20 > Scelbi 8h 25 > Mark-8 Mark-8 was a set of plans and boards, so its hard to define what a "Mark-8" is (would a set of boards count? or does it have to be assembled???) > IBM 5100 no idea > Apple 1 50 > Altair 8800 500 (a,b,bt) > IMSAI 8080 1000 again, just wild guesses. steve From melamy at earthlink.net Tue Apr 8 10:56:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV Message-ID: <08040398.32042@webbox.com> If they used Norton then they were a few years too early to warrant giving him any credit. He was a PC guy that released the Norton Utilities in 1982-1983 timeframe - after the blinkly light period of the late 70s (unless someone can tell me what credit Peter should deserve for the non-pc era). best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: Jeffrey Sharp >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 4/8/03 3:32:39 AM > On Monday, April 7, 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Andrew Strouse wrote: >> > Hi all. I was watching Malcom in the Middle last night and they had a >> > classic computer storyline. The were cleaning out their garage and >> > found a "Nortair" computer. It looked to me like an altair front panel >> > with the base but no cover and no cards inside. >> >> I guess that name is supposed to be a catenation of "Northstar" and >> "Altair". > >You give these people too much credit. I'd say "Norton" and "Altair". > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp From melamy at earthlink.net Tue Apr 8 10:57:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV Message-ID: <08040398.32102@webbox.com> If they used Norton then they were a few years too early to warrant giving him any credit. He was a PC guy that released the Norton Utilities in 1982-1983 timeframe - after the blinkly light period of the late 70s (unless someone can tell me what credit Peter should deserve for the non-pc era). best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: Jeffrey Sharp >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 4/8/03 3:32:39 AM > On Monday, April 7, 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Andrew Strouse wrote: >> > Hi all. I was watching Malcom in the Middle last night and they had a >> > classic computer storyline. The were cleaning out their garage and >> > found a "Nortair" computer. It looked to me like an altair front panel >> > with the base but no cover and no cards inside. >> >> I guess that name is supposed to be a catenation of "Northstar" and >> "Altair". > >You give these people too much credit. I'd say "Norton" and "Altair". > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 8 11:30:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, The Design Fort DTP wrote: > One thing I was always interested in - and the visitors in my Computer > Museum often want to know - is how many of the very first personal computers > are still in existence. By first PCs I mean the following machines: > Kenbak 1 > Scelbi 8h > Mark-8 > IBM 5100 > Apple 1 > Altair 8800 > IMSAI 8080 > > I know it's quite difficult to figure out how many Altairs or IMSAIS are > still around. But a search on the Mark-8 e.G. (on the Internet) turned out > that there are only a handful still in existence. The machines that show up on the web can at best only be assumed to be a fraction of those actually in existence. As far as Apple-1's, I have been tracking them for several years and have located 27 throughout the world. I estimate that there are no more than 50 in existence. The actual number may be much less. As far as the Kenbak 1, the only one I know of is in the Computer History Museum's collection. There might be another on display in another museum somewhere in the world. There may well be dozens of forgotten Mark-8's in various states of assemblage sitting in basement workshops or attics all around the US. The Scelbi 8H is probably a bit more obscure. Perhaps less than 50 of those. This is just a wild assed guess. There are hundreds of IBM 5100's, and hundreds (if not thousands) of Altair 8800's and IMSAI 8080's. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 8 11:33:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <20030408153528.93835.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, steve wrote: > here are my guesses.... > > --- The Design Fort DTP > wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > One thing I was always interested in - and the > > visitors in my Computer > > Museum often want to know - is how many of the very > > first personal computers > > are still in existence. By first PCs I mean the > > following machines: > > Kenbak 1 > 10-20 There were only 40 made (interestingly in Brentwood, California, just 30 minutes north of where I live in Livermore). Here's a brief article: http://www.pretext.com/mar98/shorts/short3.htm I can stretch my imagination and believe that 10 may still be around, but certainly not 20. > > Altair 8800 > 500 (a,b,bt) Move it over one decimal place to the left. From what I know, about 50,000 Altair's of all models were produced. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jss at subatomix.com Tue Apr 8 11:35:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV In-Reply-To: <08040398.32042@webbox.com> References: <08040398.32042@webbox.com> Message-ID: <20030408163509.GA448@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, April 8, 2003, Steve Thatcher wrote: > From: Jeffrey Sharp > > On Monday, April 7, 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > I guess that name is supposed to be a catenation of "Northstar" and > > > "Altair". > > > > You give these people too much credit. I'd say "Norton" and "Altair". > > If they used Norton then they were a few years too early to warrant giving > him any credit. He was a PC guy that released the Norton Utilities in > 1982-1983 timeframe - after the blinkly light period of the late 70s > (unless someone can tell me what credit Peter should deserve for the > non-pc era). No, I meant that Sellam was giving the TV show's makers too much credit. The way I thunk it, they knew that this Norton guy had been around for a while, and they 'knew' that the Altair was the 'first computer', so they just put them together. That was based on my opinions on how much Hollywood and friends know about computer history. -- Jeffrey Sharp From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Tue Apr 8 12:25:01 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: Update: Re: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1049822504.3017.1.camel@azure.subsolar.com> I have not been following this thread, but have you guys gotten permission from DEC/COMPAQ/HP to post this information on the internet? If you have not, then there are legal issues to consider. Regards, Paul On Tue, 2003-04-08 at 00:51, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Sun, 6 Apr 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > As I've told Tim, I'm working on setting up a mirror here at Purdue. > > After this finishes downloading (Probably in about another day with the > > 2.8kB/sec rate I'm getting), I'll be hosting it on a machine that has much > > more bandwith - it'll max out its network connection long before the > > Internet connection here is maxed out. > > > > So, if anyone wants to wait a day to download this, I can promise a much > > higher download rate. Of course the more people that wait, the faster I > > can get the stuff downloaded for a mirror ;-). > > > > Once it's set up, I'll email everyone, the URL will be: > > > > http://purdueriots.com/classiccmp/dec94mds/ > > It looks like I might have actually finished downloading this before Tim's > master went down. So, anyone who's interested can go ahead and download > things from the above URL. Let me know if anyone finds broken links, so I > know if the mirror isn't complete. I've also posted a MD5sums file with > the MD5's of the files on the site, with a link on the index.html to it. > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu -- Paul Berger From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 8 12:32:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030408082428.44b7aa84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > >Interesting question is whether it is being used as a 21mb MFM > >drive or as a 33mb RLL. My guess would be 21mb. On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > It's an RLL drive and is 32 Mb according to my sources. But what controller is it connected to? The IBM controller (full length, made by Xebec) was MFM. ONLY. When connected to an MFM controller, the drive will only be usable for 2/3 of its rated RLL capacity, giving you a very good 20M drive. MFM and RLL gave two different recording encodings on what was otherwise an identical drive. But many/most? MFM drives could not reliably handle the higher "density" of RLL. Drives that were sold as RLL could. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Apr 8 12:37:00 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: <3E8DDCB0.10306@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of John Honniball > Sent: 04 April 2003 20:28 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: IBM 5161 > > Just had a look at the images on the Binary Dinosaurs site, and I see > that you have a blue, full-length card with an 8X305 on it. This is > a bit-slice CPU chip, so I'm curious as to what this card is. Does > anyone recognise it? > It's an IRMA Decision Support Interface, and according to an IT Glossary I've found at mtsac.edu it's "IRMA - A circuit card and software combination package from DCA which serves as a microprocessor responding to poll in an interactive 327x network. It emulates a terminal while residing in a PC. This makes PC's dual function devices - they serve as both terminals and micros (see also AVATAR card)." Pix are here: hi-res: http://vorbis.demon.co.uk/irma-hi.jpg lo-res: http://vorbis.demon.co.uk/irma-lo.jpg Here's a post I found in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.networking: "This is not a 10B2 card...it is an IRMA board I believe. IRMA boards are 3278 clones made by DCA (as stated on the card). An IBM3278 board is a NIC for a PC to interface with a 3270 network. They're useless unless of course you're running a 3270 network as well" So that's me stuffed since I don't have a handy mainframe floating around anywhere :o) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From dectech at usa.net Tue Apr 8 12:37:09 2003 From: dectech at usa.net (paul turner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:52 2005 Subject: 21-17322-01 Chip location. Message-ID: <304HDHoQE2960S18.1049812950@uwdvg018.cms.usa.net> Good afternoon Mr Frank Arnold, Apologies for the intrusion. A colleague told me you may have some PDP T11 chips (Part No 21-17311-01) that I am looking for. I need 5 pieces here in the UK with me by this Thursday. Please advise if you have these and at what price, Best Regards, Paul S. Turner. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 8 12:47:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Altair 8800 > > 500 (a,b,bt) > > Move it over one decimal place to the left. From what I know, about > 50,000 Altair's of all models were produced. Math check: move the decimal RIGHT (i.e. at least 5,000). (Thanks, Robert ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 8 12:49:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV In-Reply-To: <20030408163509.GA448@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > No, I meant that Sellam was giving the TV show's makers too much credit. > The way I thunk it, they knew that this Norton guy had been around for a > while, and they 'knew' that the Altair was the 'first computer', so they > just put them together. That was based on my opinions on how much Hollywood > and friends know about computer history. It could be that there's a vintage geek on the show's writing crew. But anyway, I don't know why they didn't just make it an Altair. It's not like they would be violating copyrights or giving some company free advertising. Who knows. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 8 13:05:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It could be that there's a vintage geek on the show's writing crew. But > anyway, I don't know why they didn't just make it an Altair. It's not > like they would be violating copyrights or giving some company free > advertising. Who knows. How much does it cost for a "product placement"? Might there be a studio POLICY that NO product name goes unmangled until fees are paid? OR If they used a REAL name, then geeks would write in griping about inaccuracies of model number, etc. If they HAD said Altair, and used a homemade mockup, instead of a real one, then they would become the subject of lots of email on lists like this. Therefore, what they had probably WAS a Nortair. The only Nortair to ever exist. From jss at subatomix.com Tue Apr 8 13:06:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: Fwd: Unknown "Model 25" Available Message-ID: <20030408180620.GB448@subatomix.com> Argh. This guy ticks me off: - No subject. - Does not adequately identify to whom he is speaking. - Does not adequately identify the machine. - Does not adequately identify the location. - No capitalization. - Obvious typing errors not corrected. - Your/You're confusion Normally, this kind of post gets rejected. This guy, however, has something available for the cost of shipping. I don't want a machine to get destroyed because of me being a post quality nazi. If you're looking for a "Model 25", here's your chance. You have been warned. ----- Forwarded message from Wollitz Garden ----- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:04:59 -0400 From: "Wollitz Garden" To: i saw your post on the web. i got on of those Model 25 with one floppy here. i dunno if it has a hardrive. i'm here in jax area. if you wish to p[ick it up your welcome. no charge for machine, only if you want it shipped. would propblay be a fortune for a heavy machine like that ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Jeffrey Sharp From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Apr 8 13:20:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: Lead on a VAX 4000/300 for sale Message-ID: <3E931214.DD72848B@comcast.net> I have a lead on a VAX 4000/300, two pedestals, that will be hitting e-Bay soon. It's in New Haven, CT, and you'd have to pick it up fairly quickly. Storage space is tight, where it's sitting now. I'm not the seller, just kknow about it. Send me a message directly, for more info. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 8 13:21:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030408082428.44b7aa84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > At 10:47 PM 4/7/03 -0700, Don wrote: > > > >Interesting question is whether it is being used as a 21mb MFM > >drive or as a 33mb RLL. My guess would be 21mb. > > > It's an RLL drive and is 32 Mb according to my sources. My curiousity was really as to the controller and whether it was RLL or MFM, Joe. - don From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Apr 8 13:50:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: Pacific Page PE Docs Message-ID: Thought I'd ask if anyone wants these before tossing them out: 1 copy PacificPage PE (Postscript Emulation cart) manuals 1 set of Win 3.x font disks for PE. 3 copies Pacific 4 Memory Installation guides. Free for shipping. Total shipping weight, 2 pounds. Media Mail rate in US: $2.00. Bob From kapteynr at cboe.com Tue Apr 8 13:56:00 2003 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? Message-ID: <72F57ECC9732D611815100A0C984ED9C7C855A@msx1.cboe.com> I still have the Altair 8800 that my Dad bought for me when I was in high school. It was not very long before we realized how "special" it's role in history was. So, I suspect that the survival rate of these was relatively high. (Most of the lost ones were probably accidentally burned up by incompetent tinkerers :-) Of course the number of early 8800 models produced was not that high, and a good number of those were upgraded with "B" front panels and power supplies. (those original tiny switches are a real pain) -Rob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 11:29 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: The very first personal computers - How many are left? On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, steve wrote: > here are my guesses.... > > --- The Design Fort DTP > wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > One thing I was always interested in - and the > > visitors in my Computer > > Museum often want to know - is how many of the very > > first personal computers > > are still in existence. By first PCs I mean the > > following machines: > > Kenbak 1 > 10-20 There were only 40 made (interestingly in Brentwood, California, just 30 minutes north of where I live in Livermore). Here's a brief article: http://www.pretext.com/mar98/shorts/short3.htm I can stretch my imagination and believe that 10 may still be around, but certainly not 20. > > Altair 8800 > 500 (a,b,bt) Move it over one decimal place to the left. From what I know, about 50,000 Altair's of all models were produced. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Apr 8 14:08:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E9339FB.9691.255B9884@localhost> > > It could be that there's a vintage geek on the show's writing crew. But > > anyway, I don't know why they didn't just make it an Altair. It's not > > like they would be violating copyrights or giving some company free > > advertising. Who knows. > How much does it cost for a "product placement"? > Might there be a studio POLICY that NO product name goes unmangled until > fees are paid? > OR > If they used a REAL name, then geeks would write in griping about > inaccuracies of model number, etc. If they HAD said Altair, and used a > homemade mockup, instead of a real one, then they would become the subject > of lots of email on lists like this. > Therefore, what they had probably WAS a Nortair. The only Nortair to ever > exist. I ?ove your explanation Fred. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From kth at srv.net Tue Apr 8 14:30:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV References: <3E9339FB.9691.255B9884@localhost> Message-ID: <3E931BE4.3060605@srv.net> Hans Franke wrote: >>>It could be that there's a vintage geek on the show's writing crew. But >>>anyway, I don't know why they didn't just make it an Altair. It's not >>>like they would be violating copyrights or giving some company free >>>advertising. Who knows. >>> >>> Looking at it, it had an Altair front panel, but behind that it looked like a stereo inside. Was there any audio equipment company starting with "Nor" that they could have cojoined to Altair? And, considering that he broke it in half over his knee, I doubt anyone who ever picked up a real Altair would believe that someone could possibly do that. > > >>How much does it cost for a "product placement"? >>Might there be a studio POLICY that NO product name goes unmangled until >>fees are paid? >>OR >>If they used a REAL name, then geeks would write in griping about >>inaccuracies of model number, etc. If they HAD said Altair, and used a >>homemade mockup, instead of a real one, then they would become the subject >>of lots of email on lists like this. >>Therefore, what they had probably WAS a Nortair. The only Nortair to ever >>exist. >> >> > >I ?ove your explanation Fred. From joe_web at worldonline.fr Tue Apr 8 14:43:00 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: For sale/give away IMPORTANT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! References: <200304081541.IAA16750@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <001f01c2fe06$a30d4550$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> hello, i send this message to all, because a have a little problem, all the message who i send to you private, comes always back... so, i want to know the price to shipping the swith to france. thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J. Korpela" To: "[Jo_l Weber]" Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 5:41 PM Subject: Re: For sale/give away > [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > hello, what do you want for the 4 port // auto data switch? the dell > > latitude? > > thanks > > You can have the parallel switch for the cost of shipping it. The dead > notebook was already snapped up. Sorry. > > Let me know where you want the data switch shipped, and I'll get it out on > friday. > > Eric From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Tue Apr 8 14:47:00 2003 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: For sale/give away Message-ID: <200304081944.MAA17759@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> For anyone who tried to reach me after about 21:00 PDT last night, we had a little configuration problem here that resulted in bounced mail. Please try again, as most of the items are still available. It looks like the problem is now fixed. Sorry for the bounces. Eric From joe_web at worldonline.fr Tue Apr 8 14:50:01 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: For sale/give away References: <200304081944.MAA17759@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <002f01c2fe08$04ed4fd0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> hello, i want to know the price to shipping the swith to france (for the 4 port switch). thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J. Korpela" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 9:44 PM Subject: RE: For sale/give away > For anyone who tried to reach me after about 21:00 PDT last night, > we had a little configuration problem here that resulted in bounced > mail. > > Please try again, as most of the items are still available. > > It looks like the problem is now fixed. > > Sorry for the bounces. > > Eric From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Apr 8 15:13:01 2003 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030408160753.00b19458@mail.wincom.net> At 11:25 AM 08/04/2003, you wrote: >Hi all, > >One thing I was always interested in - and the visitors in my Computer >Museum often want to know - is how many of the very first personal computers >are still in existence. By first PCs I mean the following machines: >Kenbak 1 >Scelbi 8h >Mark-8 >IBM 5100 >Apple 1 >Altair 8800 >IMSAI 8080 > >I know it's quite difficult to figure out how many Altairs or IMSAIS are >still around. But a search on the Mark-8 e.G. (on the Internet) turned out >that there are only a handful still in existence. > >Greetings >Herbert Hello Herbert: I have a 5100. Someone was gathering information on the serial numbers a few years ago, but I don't know what his results were. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From jss at subatomix.com Tue Apr 8 15:19:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: Update: Re: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: <1049822504.3017.1.camel@azure.subsolar.com> References: <1049822504.3017.1.camel@azure.subsolar.com> Message-ID: <20030408201916.GC448@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, April 8, 2003, Paul Berger wrote: > I have not been following this thread, but have you guys gotten > permission from DEC/COMPAQ/HP to post this information on the internet? > > If you have not, then there are legal issues to consider. There was a blanket grant of permission. If I wasn't at work, I'd google for specifics and post them. IIRC I read the text of the grant at one of the archive sites. -- Jeffrey Sharp From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 8 15:25:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <72F57ECC9732D611815100A0C984ED9C7C855A@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Kapteyn, Rob wrote: > I still have the Altair 8800 that my Dad bought for me when I was in > high school. It was not very long before we realized how "special" it's > role in history was. So, I suspect that the survival rate of these was > relatively high. (Most of the lost ones were probably accidentally > burned up by incompetent tinkerers :-) Of course the number of early > 8800 models produced was not that high, and a good number of those were > upgraded with "B" front panels and power supplies. (those original tiny > switches are a real pain) There were thousands of Altairs that were used in process control applications in all manner of industry, from industrial to medical. Most of these would have been 8800b's or "turnkey" Altairs (i.e. no front panel). So when we ask how many Altair's still remain, are we asking how many 8800's, or how many of all the models? If we are talking about 8800's, I would say that number is probably less than 1,000. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Apr 8 15:38:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? References: Message-ID: <024c01c2fe0e$64739990$d70cdd40@oemcomputer> Where's your museum located ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Design Fort DTP" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 10:25 AM Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? > Hi all, > > One thing I was always interested in - and the visitors in my Computer > Museum often want to know - is how many of the very first personal computers > are still in existence. By first PCs I mean the following machines: > Kenbak 1 > Scelbi 8h > Mark-8 > IBM 5100 > Apple 1 > Altair 8800 > IMSAI 8080 > > I know it's quite difficult to figure out how many Altairs or IMSAIS are > still around. But a search on the Mark-8 e.G. (on the Internet) turned out > that there are only a handful still in existence. > > Greetings > Herbert From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 8 15:45:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: T 08 (fwd) Message-ID: Someone in France has a Thomson T08 to sell. The Google translation of the message is as follows: "I have one T O8 and wishes to demolish me, causes new computer at the house... If you are interested, to quote..." I think you get the general idea ;) Please reply to the original sender. Reply-to: triosalles@infonie.fr ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:43:19 -0000 From: TRIOSALLES To: vcf@vintage.org Subject: T 08 Je poss?de un T O8 et souhaite m'en d?faire, cause nouvel ordinateur ? la maison...Si vous ?tes int?ress?, faire offre... Merci de votre attention, IS -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Apr 8 16:05:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002e01c2fe12$2c6e5590$46f8b8ce@impac.com> > So when we ask how many Altair's still remain, are we asking how many > 8800's, or how many of all the models? If we are talking about 8800's, I > would say that number is probably less than 1,000. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 8 16:23:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: MFM vs RLL or ST-225 vs ST-238R (was Re: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT?) In-Reply-To: <20030408151003.52825.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030408082428.44b7aa84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030408170725.48cf8b98@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:10 AM 4/8/03 -0700, you wrote: >--- Joe wrote: >> At 10:47 PM 4/7/03 -0700, Don wrote: >> > >> >Interesting question is whether it is being used as a 21mb MFM >> >drive or as a 33mb RLL. My guess would be 21mb. >> >> >> It's an RLL drive and is 32 Mb according to my sources. > >Does that mean that you confirmed that your controller is an RLL >controller? No, my controller is an original IBM 10 Mb MFM HD controller. It's only using 10 Mb of the drive. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 8 16:23:47 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030408082428.44b7aa84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030408171846.0f4f721c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Don, The controller is full length and has XEBEC chips and a Z-80 CPU. I'm sure that it's MFM. It's marked IBM and next to that is a paper sticker that says #1501492. Also marked IBM 6135984 in copper foil. My diagnostic tool shows four settings in the ROM, the 10Mb drive is third setting. I didn't look at the capacity of the other settings. It's running this drive as a 10 Mb MFM drive but the drive is rated as a 32Mb RLL capable drive. Joe At 11:19 AM 4/8/03 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > >> At 10:47 PM 4/7/03 -0700, Don wrote: >> > >> >Interesting question is whether it is being used as a 21mb MFM >> >drive or as a 33mb RLL. My guess would be 21mb. >> >> >> It's an RLL drive and is 32 Mb according to my sources. > >My curiousity was really as to the controller and whether it was >RLL or MFM, Joe. > - don From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 8 16:23:58 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030408170512.48cf69ca@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Herbert, I think you'll find that there are a good number of Altairs, 5100s and Mark-8s still around. I personally owned two Altairs and a 5100 up until last year. There are a GOOD number of people on this list that Mark-8s, Altairs, 5100 and IMSAIs. Have you checked Steve Gabaly's Altair register? He been trying to put together a list of all the existing Altairs. Joe At 11:25 AM 4/8/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all, > >One thing I was always interested in - and the visitors in my Computer >Museum often want to know - is how many of the very first personal computers >are still in existence. By first PCs I mean the following machines: >Kenbak 1 >Scelbi 8h >Mark-8 >IBM 5100 >Apple 1 >Altair 8800 >IMSAI 8080 > >I know it's quite difficult to figure out how many Altairs or IMSAIS are >still around. But a search on the Mark-8 e.G. (on the Internet) turned out >that there are only a handful still in existence. > >Greetings >Herbert From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Tue Apr 8 16:26:01 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030408212415.82906.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Altair 8800 > > 500 (a,b,bt) > > Move it over one decimal place to the left. From > what I know, about > 50,000 Altair's of all models were produced. 50K? I doubt it, I have seen many Altairs and I think the highest serial number was around three thousand something (8800 and 8800A's),lets say 6K were made, I find it hard to believe that MITs made another 44,000 B's and BT's by mid 1978 when the line was discontinued. BT's were introduced in, what, late 77 after MITS was sold to Pertec. The line was discontinued in less then a year because of lack of sales (many better options were available at this time). So I must assume not many BT's were sold, but I have no serial number data to confirm this. I have only seen 5 or so and most serial numbers were in the hundreds, I think I saw one in the thousands. I would guess not more then 10K were ever made (all Altairs including the 680,Attache and Sherwood). If you (or anyone for that matter) has serial number data that disagrees with this conclusion please feel free to correct me! steve > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia > at www.VintageTech.com * From joe_web at worldonline.fr Tue Apr 8 16:29:00 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: search computers ! References: <3.0.6.16.20030408170512.48cf69ca@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004a01c2fe15$cd8c0870$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> bonjour, je cherche les exemplaires suivants, alors si cel? vous tombe entre les mains, faites moi un petit signe (meme s'ils ne fonctionnent pas!): - 5100 (ibm) - minicomputer (mark-8) - altair 8800 (mits) - ddp-516 (honeywell) - apple 1 (apple) - system I/II/III (cromemco) - Z-1 (cromemco) - Apple II ( Apple) - pet 2001 (commodore) - p6060 (olivetti) - terminal processor (tei) - abc 80 (luxor) - apple II+ (apple) - pet 200 (commodore) - pet 30XX (commodore) - Apple III (apple) voila pour le moment, biensur si vous en avez d'autres... je suis tjr int?rr?s?! ;-) hello, i search the fallow computers: - 5100 (ibm) - minicomputer (mark-8) - altair 8800 (mits) - ddp-516 (honeywell) - apple 1 (apple) - system I/II/III (cromemco) - Z-1 (cromemco) - Apple II ( Apple) - pet 2001 (commodore) - p6060 (olivetti) - terminal processor (tei) - abc 80 (luxor) - apple II+ (apple) - pet 200 (commodore) - pet 30XX (commodore) - Apple III (apple) and more if you have, i'm interested in all..... merci / thanks ! joel weber From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 8 16:52:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030408171846.0f4f721c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > The controller is full length and has XEBEC chips and a Z-80 CPU. > I'm sure that it's MFM. It's marked IBM and next to that is a paper > sticker that says #1501492. Also marked IBM 6135984 in copper foil. My > diagnostic tool shows four settings in the ROM, the 10Mb drive is > third setting. I didn't look at the capacity of the other settings. > It's running this drive as a 10 Mb MFM drive but the drive is rated as > a 32Mb RLL capable drive. > my controller is an original IBM 10 Mb MFM HD controller. It's only > using 10 Mb of the drive. Near the middle of the board are 8 solder pads. By jumpering those (they are the right size for a 4 position dip switch), you can get the controller to use the other setting that are in its ROM. The 4 positions are 2 for each drive, resulting in 4 possible combinations for each drive. 10M, the default, is both switches open. OR, there are software ways tio override the controller - check with Steve Thatcher. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Apr 8 17:00:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <20030408212415.82906.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004101c2fe19$effa48f0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> > I would guess not more then 10K were ever made (all > Altairs including the 680,Attache and Sherwood). If > you (or anyone for that matter) has serial number data > that disagrees with this conclusion please feel free > to correct me! I don't have serial number data to correct you with, but keep in mind that MITS was notoriously "odd" with regards to serial numbers. I'm not sure what internal meaning those numbers ever had. I read an article that said that the 8800 supposedly sold 10k units in the first year (I'm not sure how many were delivered, or how many of the kits were completed versus scrapped or cannibalized for parts). The 8800a and b lines were similarly successful, give or take, with the Bs being more so because of their higher quality. I don't know jack about the numbers for 680s, Attache's etc. 10k sounds a bit low, even if 50k might be a bit high. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 8 17:03:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV In-Reply-To: <3E931BE4.3060605@srv.net> Message-ID: > And, considering that he broke it in half over his knee, I doubt anyone > who ever picked up a real Altair would believe that someone could > possibly do that. It would be best to not argue with anybody who is capable of breaking an Altair over their knee. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 8 17:18:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Apr 7, 3 08:23:55 pm Message-ID: > It's a *something* Decision card, complete with a BNC port......I really > should've noted it's name as it struck me as odd, as well as the size of the > CPU; still, the machine is easily accessible downstairs so I can dig it out > tomorrow and photograph it properly. Could it have been ethernet related? I don't think it's ethernet (back then, an ethernet card would always have a DA15 AUI connector on it (IMHO they still should!)). I've seen cards like this before, I _think_ they're some strange IBM protocol -- 3278 or similar. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 8 17:18:14 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Apr 7, 3 08:25:36 pm Message-ID: > Hm, that makes sense, so all I can assume is the site I was reading was > wrong, unless it's possible for cards not to work in the expansion *period* > because of this bug? There are certainly cards that don't work in the expansion unit, due to timing problems (the extra delay of the buffers on the extender/receiver cards). I think graphics cards -- in fact any card with RAM above the 640K boundary -- don't work in the expansion unit for this reason, but I would have to re-read the techref to be sure. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 8 17:18:23 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: Need info HP 28S In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030407221146.467f5b52@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Apr 7, 3 10:11:46 pm Message-ID: > The 27 s and 28 s are completely different models. The 28C and 28S > are physically similar but the S has more memory. The 28C and 28S have the same case, and take the same cells, but the logic boards are very different (i.e. a 28S is _not_ a 28C with extra/different RAM chips added). The 28C has 3 direct-on-board chips under the display (CPU in the middle, 2 RAM/display drivers), and 2 saturn-bus ROMs on the back side. The 28S is more like a 19B -- it has 2 TAB chips under the display (which I think are CPU/ROM/display drivers, with the CPU disabled on one of them) and a 32K JEDEC-pinout RAM on the back side. Actually, the 28C is the more expandable one. You have access to the Saturn bus (which can address 512K bytes), and the machine _will_ recognise extra RAM (e.g. taken from an HP71). There are no extra address lines available on the 28S CPU AFAIK, so you're pretty much stuck with the 32K. I've often wondered if it would be possible to get a 28C to talk to an HP71 HPIL module (the hardware interface should be trivial). Of course writing the necessary software could prove 'interesting'... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 8 17:18:29 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: SN76477N In-Reply-To: <3E9210BF.nailMS91L8D6W@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> from "Tim Shoppa" at Apr 7, 3 07:58:55 pm Message-ID: > They've got some other neat stuff, like the 5x7 LED arrays that HP > used in their desktop calculator machinery. Do you mean the 4-character displays used in the 9820 and 9830? If so, I know people who are looking for spares of those. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 8 17:19:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030408082428.44b7aa84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Apr 8, 3 08:24:28 am Message-ID: > At 10:47 PM 4/7/03 -0700, Don wrote: > > > >Interesting question is whether it is being used as a 21mb MFM > >drive or as a 33mb RLL. My guess would be 21mb. > > > It's an RLL drive and is 32 Mb according to my sources. All that means is the drive is capable of handling RLL encoding (basically, it can correctly reproduce pulses at half-multiples of the MFM spacing (although they won't ever be closer together than the MFM encoder would produce). Such a drive will, of course, work correctly with an MFM controller, but will have a lower capacity when so used (in this case 21 Mbytes). Remember that with the ST506/ST412 interface, it's the _controller_, not the drive that handles the data encoding/decoding. The 'data cable' carries the raw data stream to/from the disk. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 8 17:19:07 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: MFM vs RLL or ST-225 vs ST-238R (was Re: 3.5" floppy drive in In-Reply-To: <20030408151003.52825.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 8, 3 08:10:03 am Message-ID: > --- Joe wrote: > > At 10:47 PM 4/7/03 -0700, Don wrote: > > > > > >Interesting question is whether it is being used as a 21mb MFM > > >drive or as a 33mb RLL. My guess would be 21mb. > > > > > > It's an RLL drive and is 32 Mb according to my sources. > > Does that mean that you confirmed that your controller is an RLL > controller? There's no substantial difference between an ST-238R > and an ST-225 except a) the label, and b) some manufacturing confidence > that a tighter encoding scheme will not drop bits. > > The data cable holds analog signals. This is significantly different Actually, all the signals on the data cable are digital. The Read/Write data signals are differential pairs of similar-to-TTL level signals, normally using a 26LS31 driver and 26LS32 receiver. But in a sense they're analogue in _time_. In write mode, the drive writes a flux transition to the disk for every pulse on the write data line. In read mode, the drive sends a pulse on the read data line for every flux transition on the disk. There are some restrictions on allowable frequencies of transisitions, of course. Therefore it's up to the controller to handle the raw data from the disk, to sort it out into sectors, check the sector headers and checksums, and so on. And when writing, the controller has to pack the user's data into sectors, add the correct headers, etc. The choice of encoding scheme (FM/MFM/RLL) is up to the controller. RLL drives should really be called RLL _capable_ drives. They are capable of handling the somewhat tighter timing requirements of the RLL encoding scheme. They'll work fine with MFM encoding too (just as double-denisty -- MFM -- floppy disks will work on a single density -- FM -- controller). -tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Apr 8 17:27:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: Complete NEC find Today Message-ID: <02da01c2fe1d$bdd3db80$d70cdd40@oemcomputer> At a local thrift I found in a brown carrying case the following items: NEC PC8201A computer (works great) A LAPDOS cable converter for 1986 made by Traveling Software Two Traveling Software manuals IDEA and T-Word A 10 foot long ribbon cable Purple Computing model D103 external floppy drive (3.5) in it was a T-DOS floppy from Traveling Software TRS-80 model 100 SCRIPSIT 100 cassette and manual TRS-80 Executive Calendar cassette and manual All the power supplies and cables to hook everything together. I searched with google trying to find some information on the Purple drive with no luck anyone have doc's for it? From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Tue Apr 8 17:31:00 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030408170512.48cf69ca@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Apr 08, 2003 05:05:12 PM Message-ID: <200304082228.h38MSq6k020810@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> I have an Imsai I rescued from the uninversity garbage actually. It's missing the processor card but has about 5 or so other cards in the bus. Also got a large dual blue box 8" floppy drive unit with it. So count me on the listing of what's out there. ;) By the way, if anyone on the list has an extra processor card for it please let me know. Marty From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Tue Apr 8 17:36:00 2003 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: For sale/give away In-Reply-To: <002f01c2fe08$04ed4fd0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> from "[Jo_l Weber]" at "Apr 8, 2003 09:49:50 pm" Message-ID: <200304082233.PAA07652@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > hello, i want to know the price to shipping the swith to france (for the 4 > port switch). thanks 7 day delivery is US$11. 4-6 weeks delivery is US$5.10. Both via post office. Eric > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric J. Korpela" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 9:44 PM > Subject: RE: For sale/give away > > > > For anyone who tried to reach me after about 21:00 PDT last night, > > we had a little configuration problem here that resulted in bounced > > mail. > > > > Please try again, as most of the items are still available. > > > > It looks like the problem is now fixed. > > > > Sorry for the bounces. > > > > Eric From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Apr 8 18:06:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030408170512.48cf69ca@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005b01c2fe23$1abbc920$46f8b8ce@impac.com> > Have you checked Steve Gabaly's Altair register? He been trying to put > together a list of all the existing Altairs. I just did a cursory web search and couldn't find this register. I've got several Altairs (2x8800, 8800a and 8800bt + drives, docs, software, etc.) that should be listed. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 8 19:53:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <005b01c2fe23$1abbc920$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I just did a cursory web search and couldn't find this register. I've > got several Altairs (2x8800, 8800a and 8800bt + drives, docs, software, > etc.) that should be listed. That site went defunct a while ago. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 8 20:13:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:53 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030408171846.0f4f721c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030408210735.3c7fd068@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks for the info but I don't see the pads that you're talking about. Near the center of the card are pads for a 14 pin DIP with nothing strapped. It's unlabeled but is located between ICs 8D and 10D. Right next to the bracket on the very end of the card is a place for an 8 pin DIP. It has the package outline painted on the board. But it has two rows on header pins installed instead of a DIP package. (The rows are .4" apart.) One row of pins is marked S1 and the other is marked 1, 2, 3, 4. There's nothing jumpered on it either but I suspect that it's used to select the drive sizes. Joe At 02:49 PM 4/8/03 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > >> The controller is full length and has XEBEC chips and a Z-80 CPU. >> I'm sure that it's MFM. It's marked IBM and next to that is a paper >> sticker that says #1501492. Also marked IBM 6135984 in copper foil. My >> diagnostic tool shows four settings in the ROM, the 10Mb drive is >> third setting. I didn't look at the capacity of the other settings. >> It's running this drive as a 10 Mb MFM drive but the drive is rated as >> a 32Mb RLL capable drive. > >> my controller is an original IBM 10 Mb MFM HD controller. It's only >> using 10 Mb of the drive. > >Near the middle of the board are 8 solder pads. By jumpering those (they >are the right size for a 4 position dip switch), you can get the >controller to use the other setting that are in its ROM. The 4 positions >are 2 for each drive, resulting in 4 possible combinations for each >drive. 10M, the default, is both switches open. > >OR, there are software ways tio override the controller - >check with Steve Thatcher. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 8 20:13:37 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <005b01c2fe23$1abbc920$46f8b8ce@impac.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030408170512.48cf69ca@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030408211104.1197f530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Unfortunately I don't have the URL for it on this computer. However Steve is the one that was selling Mark-8 kits on E-bay recently. You should be able to contact him via his E-bay auctions. Joe At 04:03 PM 4/8/03 -0700, you wrote: >> Have you checked Steve Gabaly's Altair register? He been trying to put >> together a list of all the existing Altairs. > >I just did a cursory web search and couldn't find this register. I've >got several Altairs (2x8800, 8800a and 8800bt + drives, docs, software, >etc.) that should be listed. > >Erik S. Klein >www.vintage-computer.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 8 20:19:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: anybody want a Dauphin LapPro 286 User's Manual? In-Reply-To: <003d01c2fd99$5e7d78a0$0200000a@p166mmx> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030408211428.3eb7e35a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Kurt, OK send your address. Joe At 01:37 AM 4/8/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hello > >Yes, I would like it, if it is still available. > >Thanks > >Kurt > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe >To: cctech@classiccmp.org >Date: Monday, April 07, 2003 5:22 PM >Subject: anybody want a Dauphin LapPro 286 User's Manual? > > >>Found today in a scrap today. I figured someone would want it. >> >> Joe From aeg at paradise.net.nz Tue Apr 8 20:19:16 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: New to list - with a DG/UX question In-Reply-To: <010b01c2fdbc$b23e1fd0$0100a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <64A7283E-6A29-11D7-B304-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> On Tuesday, Apr 8, 2003, at 22:50 Pacific/Auckland, Dave Brown wrote: > Hey- Whatcha doin' in my sandpit?!! > DaveB(in CHCH) Oops I didn't know this spot was taken... This town must be big enough for just two of us! Alan (in CHCH - Cashmere) From oldcomp at cox.net Tue Apr 8 20:43:01 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: How many Mark 8s? was Re: The very first personal computers - How many are left? References: <3.0.6.16.20030408170512.48cf69ca@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E937A24.4060805@cox.net> Hmm... _A GOOD number?_ Anyone care to chime in with a head count? For years now I've been asking visitors to my web site for any Mark 8 stories they may have. I've heard from a few, certainly less than fifteen, but most no longer have one. I only have knowledge of five originals (built in the day, as it were) and of those, only three are operational. I know that other list members have built their own more recently, but I have not been tracking them. I would love hear how many list member have a Mark 8: 1) Original, built before, say 1980, with Techniques boards 2) Original, pre 1980 +/-, built any way at all, and 3) Recent construction, of any construction method. Also, is your Mark 8 still operational? -Bryan P.S. Steve Gabaly's web site is http://mark8.obtronix.com/gallery/ (and has a link to my web site ;-) Joe wrote: >Altairs and a 5100 up until last year. There are a GOOD number of people on this list that Mark-8s, Altairs, 5100 and IMSAIs. Have you checked Steve Gabaly's Altair register? He been trying to put together a list of all the existing Altairs. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Apr 8 20:47:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000901c2fe39$a7604390$947ba8c0@piii933> > > I just did a cursory web search and couldn't find this register. I've > > got several Altairs (2x8800, 8800a and 8800bt + drives, docs, software, > > etc.) that should be listed. > That site went defunct a while ago. That's too bad. At least he's still got the http://www.altairmanuals.com/ site running. . . Erik From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 8 21:02:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? Message-ID: <200304090159.SAA28951@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "The Design Fort DTP" > >Hi all, > >One thing I was always interested in - and the visitors in my Computer >Museum often want to know - is how many of the very first personal computers >are still in existence. By first PCs I mean the following machines: >Kenbak 1 >Scelbi 8h >Mark-8 >IBM 5100 >Apple 1 >Altair 8800 >IMSAI 8080 Hi Missed the Poly88. Dwight > >I know it's quite difficult to figure out how many Altairs or IMSAIS are >still around. But a search on the Mark-8 e.G. (on the Internet) turned out >that there are only a handful still in existence. > >Greetings >Herbert From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Apr 8 21:16:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030408210735.3c7fd068@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030408171846.0f4f721c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030408210735.3c7fd068@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > At 02:49 PM 4/8/03 -0700, you wrote: > > > Near the middle of the board are 8 solder pads. By jumpering those > > (they are the right size for a 4 position dip switch), you can get the > > controller to use the other setting that are in its ROM. The 4 > > positions are 2 for each drive, resulting in 4 possible combinations > > for each drive. 10M, the default, is both switches open. > > Thanks for the info but I don't see the pads that you're talking about. > Near the center of the card are pads for a 14 pin DIP with nothing > strapped. It's unlabeled but is located between ICs 8D and 10D. Right > next to the bracket on the very end of the card is a place for an 8 pin > DIP. It has the package outline painted on the board. But it has two > rows on header pins installed instead of a DIP package. (The rows are > .4" apart.) One row of pins is marked S1 and the other is marked 1, 2, > 3, 4. There's nothing jumpered on it either but I suspect that it's used > to select the drive sizes. The 8 pin dip outline near the bracket is what you are looking for. I've seen WD boards with empty pads, a 4 position dip switch, an empty socket, and a socket with a punch-type shunt installed. I used to just plug a standard 4 position dip switch into the header/socket to make selecting the various drive types much simpler. -Toth From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Apr 8 22:19:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Favorite Terminal Emulator Message-ID: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> Does anyone have a favorite Windows based terminal emulator? I've been evaluating several but I haven't come across any with every terminal I'd like to emulate and every feature I've been looking for. Tiger Term - http://www.tigerterm.co.uk is my current favorite but it's missing a few terminal emulations that I'd prefer (VT100 being the most important). Any package I consider would support most vintage terminal types and ascii file transfers as well as a few more common protocols (XModem, Kermit, etc.) So, does anyone have a favorite for when they aren't firing up there ADM3A or VT52? Erik From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 8 22:34:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Favorite Terminal Emulator In-Reply-To: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> from "Erik S. Klein" at Apr 08, 2003 08:16:44 PM Message-ID: <200304090332.h393WKlk017617@shell1.aracnet.com> > Does anyone have a favorite Windows based terminal emulator? TeraTerm I'm currently trying to find a good one for Mac OS X that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I think I'll be going with 'dataComet', though 'iTerm' seems to be almost good enough. Zane From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Apr 8 22:47:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Favorite Terminal Emulator In-Reply-To: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> References: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > > So, does anyone have a favorite for when they aren't firing up there > ADM3A or VT52? > Van Dyke's CRT. I love it, been using it for over two years Cheers John From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Tue Apr 8 22:59:00 2003 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? References: <20030408170001.17132.62282.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <001001c2fe4c$072c7980$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> I am a Southwest Technical Products 6800 collector and I normally define the first personal computers as those made before mid 1977. (You could be strict and say they had to introduced in 1975.) Almost all of these were only available in kit form. Even the Apple 1 and KIM required you to build a power supply. In mid 1977 the Apple II , the PET and the TRS 80 brought personal computers to those who did not know which end of a soldering iron you held. I don't know how many SWTPC 6800 were made, I still have 3. SWTPC never have a large market share but lasted longer than most of the early companies. They made computers until the mid 1980s. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley >From: "The Design Fort DTP" > >Hi all, > >One thing I was always interested in - and the visitors in my Computer >Museum often want to know - is how many of the very first personal computers >are still in existence. By first PCs I mean the following machines: >Kenbak 1 >Scelbi 8h >Mark-8 >IBM 5100 >Apple 1 >Altair 8800 >IMSAI 8080 From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Apr 8 23:15:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Favorite Terminal Emulator In-Reply-To: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030408235507.0252bdc0@mail.30below.com> At 20:16 04/08/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Does anyone have a favorite Windows based terminal emulator? NetTerm. They make both a normal & ssh-based terminal emulator, and the normal one also works thru the comport. The downside is: it takes a fair amount of futzing to get the comport stuff working just right, but the upside is that it's super-configurable, and has every emulation known to man (that I've seen, anyway...) You can also configure the keyboard seperate to the emulation (say, an ANSI emulation with an XTERM keyboard layout), and it comes with a keyboard config utility to fine-tune _that_ to do just ezactly what you need. My friend uses TeraTerm -- I didn't like it as much (not powerful enough for the different systems I use) but it's easier to set up (he's blind, and it was a lot easier for him to navigate) WRT fonts & comport usage. www.netterm.com -- time-unlimited shareware (one nag screen when you exit each login window you have open) somewhere around $30 for the non-SSH version, $60 for the SSH version. Never tried to do any comport stuff with the SSH version, so I dunno if it'll suit your needs... http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA002416/teraterm.html -- Freeware, (can't argue the price!) does have VT100, but webpage last updated: Aug. 9, 1999. Win32 software last updated: Mar 10, 1998 (1/2 way to being ontopic!!! ;-) Good news: Source code is available, and the win3.1 version is written in Pascal! Anywho, HTH! Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Apr 8 23:57:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Favorite Terminal Emulator In-Reply-To: "Erik S. Klein"'s message of "Tue, 8 Apr 2003 20:16:44 -0700" References: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <200304090427.h394RweJ078046@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > Does anyone have a favorite Windows based terminal emulator? For serial: TeraTerm For network (only): PuTTY I haven't really needed either to emulate anything other than something VT100ish. For HP terminal emulation, Telnet or serial: AICS Research's QCTerm. -Frank McConnell From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 9 02:32:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <200304090159.SAA28951@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: "The Design Fort DTP" > > > >Hi all, > > > >One thing I was always interested in - and the visitors in my Computer > >Museum often want to know - is how many of the very first personal computers > >are still in existence. By first PCs I mean the following machines: > >Kenbak 1 > >Scelbi 8h > >Mark-8 > >IBM 5100 > >Apple 1 > >Altair 8800 > >IMSAI 8080 > > Hi > Missed the Poly88. Well, for that matter there's the Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1, Compal-80, Sphere 6800, SWTPc 6800, Intel MCS-4, Intel MCS-8, KIM-1, Jolt, etc. (all within the time frame between the Kenbak 1 and the IMSAI 8080). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 9 02:33:11 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Favorite Terminal Emulator In-Reply-To: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Does anyone have a favorite Windows based terminal emulator? ProComm. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 9 02:35:02 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Favorite Terminal Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, John Lawson wrote: > Van Dyke's CRT. I love it, been using it for over two years Truly totally rocks. I use Van Dyke's SecureCRT and SecureFX (secure FTP). Worth every nickel I paid (about $110 for both during a special they were running). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Apr 9 06:33:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: New to list References: <64A7283E-6A29-11D7-B304-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <033a01c2fe8b$6bf012c0$0100a8c0@athlon> Good to have someone else local, Alan. 'fraid I'm just a 'small iron' fan- no room for much else! As for the size of the town- well -- I guess it going to have to be in the square at midnight, eh? You'll recognise me by the Epson PX8 under one arm and the HP45 holstered on the opposite hip- with the flap open! Dave Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Greenstreet" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 1:20 PM Subject: Re: New to list - with a DG/UX question > On Tuesday, Apr 8, 2003, at 22:50 Pacific/Auckland, Dave Brown wrote: > > > Hey- Whatcha doin' in my sandpit?!! > > DaveB(in CHCH) > > Oops I didn't know this spot was taken... > This town must be big enough for just two of us! > > Alan (in CHCH - Cashmere) From joe_web at worldonline.fr Wed Apr 9 07:10:01 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: For sale/give away References: <200304082233.PAA07652@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <002701c2fe90$8b5d2bc0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> can i pay with check? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J. Korpela" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:33 AM Subject: Re: For sale/give away > [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > hello, i want to know the price to shipping the swith to france (for the 4 > > port switch). thanks > > 7 day delivery is US$11. 4-6 weeks delivery is US$5.10. Both via post office. > > Eric > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Eric J. Korpela" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 9:44 PM > > Subject: RE: For sale/give away > > > > > > > For anyone who tried to reach me after about 21:00 PDT last night, > > > we had a little configuration problem here that resulted in bounced > > > mail. > > > > > > Please try again, as most of the items are still available. > > > > > > It looks like the problem is now fixed. > > > > > > Sorry for the bounces. > > > > > > Eric From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Apr 9 07:45:00 2003 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV In-Reply-To: References: <3E931BE4.3060605@srv.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030409083911.00b19980@mail.wincom.net> At 06:00 PM 08/04/2003, you wrote: > > And, considering that he broke it in half over his knee, I doubt anyone > > who ever picked up a real Altair would believe that someone could > > possibly do that. > >It would be best to not argue with anybody who is capable of breaking an >Altair over their knee. I once caught an XT with my knee when the cover came off unexpectedly, it didn't seem to bother the XT, can't say the same for my knee! Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Apr 9 07:52:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Favorite Terminal Emulator In-Reply-To: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: Good ol' Telix works in a Dos window.. :-) According to my usage log, I'm still using the same binaries I downloaded in 94. David On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Does anyone have a favorite Windows based terminal emulator? > > > > I've been evaluating several but I haven't come across any with every > terminal I'd like to emulate and every feature I've been looking for. > Tiger Term - http://www.tigerterm.co.uk > is my current favorite but it's missing a few terminal emulations that > I'd prefer (VT100 being the most important). > > > > Any package I consider would support most vintage terminal types and > ascii file transfers as well as a few more common protocols (XModem, > Kermit, etc.) > > > > So, does anyone have a favorite for when they aren't firing up there > ADM3A or VT52? > > > > Erik From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 9 08:12:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Favorite Terminal Emulator In-Reply-To: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <20030409130930.28622.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > Does anyone have a favorite Windows based terminal emulator? Kermit. -ethan From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 9 09:18:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: For sale/give away In-Reply-To: <002701c2fe90$8b5d2bc0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> Message-ID: Can this conversation please be taken to private channels? On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, Jo?l Weber wrote: > can i pay with check? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric J. Korpela" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:33 AM > Subject: Re: For sale/give away > > > > [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > > hello, i want to know the price to shipping the swith to france (for the > 4 > > > port switch). thanks > > > > 7 day delivery is US$11. 4-6 weeks delivery is US$5.10. Both via post > office. > > > > Eric > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Eric J. Korpela" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 9:44 PM > > > Subject: RE: For sale/give away > > > > > > > > > > For anyone who tried to reach me after about 21:00 PDT last night, > > > > we had a little configuration problem here that resulted in bounced > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > Please try again, as most of the items are still available. > > > > > > > > It looks like the problem is now fixed. > > > > > > > > Sorry for the bounces. > > > > > > > > Eric > -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From joe_web at worldonline.fr Wed Apr 9 10:05:00 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: some computers Message-ID: <000001c2fea9$54050b20$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> hello, have anyone some of this computers to sell or to give? - ORB (Abs computer) - acces computer ( access computer) - apricot pc (apricot act) - 1000 series (alpha micro) - ws 1 (ampere) - imagination machine (apf electronic inc.) - apple III - Apple IIe - apple IIc+ - macintosh - macintosh+ - macintosh II - macintosh SE - systemx (asci) - pc 6300 (at&t) - basis 108 (basis) - mimi 802/803/804 (british micro) - l'attach? (bull) - micral 80/22 (bull) - 65 (cab) so it was all for this time, if you are an other computer to give or to sell; say it me ! thanks at all, joel weber From kth at srv.net Wed Apr 9 10:10:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Favorite Terminal Emulator References: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <3E943060.2040407@srv.net> Erik S. Klein wrote: >Does anyone have a favorite Windows based terminal emulator? > > > Of those I've tried, Kermit95 has given me the fewest problems. > >I've been evaluating several but I haven't come across any with every >terminal I'd like to emulate and every feature I've been looking for. >Tiger Term - http://www.tigerterm.co.uk >is my current favorite but it's missing a few terminal emulations that >I'd prefer (VT100 being the most important). > > > >Any package I consider would support most vintage terminal types and >ascii file transfers as well as a few more common protocols (XModem, >Kermit, etc.) > > > >So, does anyone have a favorite for when they aren't firing up there >ADM3A or VT52? > > > > Erik From mranalog at attbi.com Wed Apr 9 10:17:00 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? Message-ID: <3E943F1E.DB6D769A@attbi.com> > > Move it over one decimal place to the left. From what I know, about > > 50,000 Altair's of all models were produced. > Math check: move the decimal RIGHT (i.e. at least 5,000). Instead of throwing number around forever, why doesn't someone just ask Steve Shepard? He was a customer service rep. (or something like that) for MITS. And at one time he maintained a list of all of MITS customers. Next, someone could ask Todd Fischer about the number of IMSAIs. Or ask Lee Felsenstein and Bob Marsh about SOL 10s and 20s. Or ask Jon Titus about the Mark-8. etc. etc. etc. > > > I just did a cursory web search and couldn't find this register. > > That site went defunct a while ago. > That's too bad. > At least he's still got the http://www.altairmanuals.com/ site running. That's not David Freibrun or Steve Gabaly, that's Steve Shepard's site. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From jss at subatomix.com Wed Apr 9 10:27:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Favorite Terminal Emulator In-Reply-To: <20030409130930.28622.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> <20030409130930.28622.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030409152709.GB905@subatomix.com> --- "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > Does anyone have a favorite Windows based terminal emulator? The only emulation I need done under Windows is for telnet and SSH sessions. I have to use telnet to login to my home Linux box from work to do the occasional email reading. SSH to the outside world is firewalled into oblivion. Thankfully, I was able to use the S/Key one-time password system, which provides enough security for my tastes. BTW, I use PuTTY for this emulation. I'm sure it is nowhere near as full-featured as TeraTerm or CRT. -- Jeffrey Sharp From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 9 12:07:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030409130500.4bafda58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Sergio, Are you still interested in connecting a HP 9885 to your HP 9000/380? I've been going through some of my old HP manuals and I've found a lot more info. You definitely need the HP 98622 GPIO interface. The standard 98622 has a 50 pin female Ampenol connector (ie "SCSI" connector) and you'll have to make you're own cable. But if you find a 98622 option 002 interface it already has a 0.8m cable and connector for the 9885 disk drive. It also has the jumpers already set for use with the 9885 drive. The 98622 jumpers should be set as follows; BSY and BSY 0; PCL, PFLG, PSTS, HSHK, DIN, DOUT, RD, RDY, RD, RDY all set to 1. I know there appear to be some duplcates in the lists above but that's the way they're shown in the 98622 manual. I have the pin outs of the 98622 but I don't have them for the 9885. At least I don't have them readily available. Assuming that you're running BASIC, you need to load the GPIO.BIN and HP9885.BIN files. The GPIO file provides drivers for the 98622 hardware and the HP9885 file provides the driver for the 9885 drive. I'm not sure what you need if you're running other languages. Joe > >Sergio, > > Yes it CAN be attached. You'd have to use the GPIO interface and probably have to write you're own drivers. The GPIO interface is the nearest thing to the original interface (HP 98034 option 85 IIRC) for the 9885. I THINK I remember that HP did make an 9885 interface for the early 9000 200 series computers but I don't remember the details. The original interface for the 9885 is a 16 bit parallel interface, it is NOT SASI or SCSI. > > Joe > >At 10:33 PM 4/2/03 +0200, you wrote: >>Hello. Somebody knows if one HP9885 8" floppy unit can be attached to one >>HP- >>9000/380 ? The unit came with one 50-pin SCSI or SASI type connector, and >>one >>37-pin connector. >> >>Thanks and Greetings. >> >>Sergio From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Apr 9 12:48:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Need Resue Fw: Older Computer Equipment Here Message-ID: <00f501c2febf$e8699f40$1f0add40@oemcomputer> Anyone in the area wanting any of these items please contact him directly. I have not stake in this. ----- Original Message ----- From: pegntim23 To: jrkeys@concentric.net Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:29 PM Subject: Older Computer Equipment Here I found your address on a web page of folks interested in old computer equipment. I have the equipment listed below in Council Bluffs, Iowa, but have relatives in St. Paul. If you are interested in any of it (for free), please reply and if it is still available, we'll arrange a hookup. 1) PC CPU: Gateway 2000 P5-120 (won't boot, hard drive crashed? or virus? Has CD-ROM, Tape Drive, 3.25 floppy, and sound card) 2) SCANNER: Mustek 600III EP (just stopped scanning one day a few months ago). 3) SCANNER: Optic Pro 9630P (given to me by a friend when mine quit working, but I never did hook it up as I didn't have driver disks) 4) INKJET PRINTER: HP Deskjet 1120C (wide format, colors aren't coming out right even with a new ink cartridge) 5) INKJET PRINTER: HP PaintJetXL (a real dinosaur, but worked fine before I disconnected it a couple years ago) 6) COPIER: Sharp SF-7100 (worked fine five years ago, but haven't plugged in since!) I may or may not have software/drivers that came with them -- specify if this is important to you. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 9 12:52:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: OT: "Nortair" on TV In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030409083911.00b19980@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: > >It would be best to not argue with anybody who is capable of breaking an > >Altair over their knee. On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, Charles E. Fox wrote: > I once caught an XT with my knee when the cover came off > unexpectedly, it didn't seem to bother the XT, can't say the same for my knee! During the Loma Prieta quake, a seven foot high three foot wide bookcase full of computer books toppled onto an open 5150 in my office. It bent the corner of the case slightly. From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Wed Apr 9 13:01:00 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: ADM Terminal = Televideo Terminal? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030409130500.4bafda58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I have a vintage Televideo 910 Terminal which I know little about. It looks just like a Lear Siegler ADM Terminal. I want to setup an authentic Altair 8800 display and was wondering if Televideo and Lear Siegler might be one and the same company. Does anybody know more about it? Thanks Herbert From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 9 13:26:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: ADM Terminal = Televideo Terminal? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030409130500.4bafda58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030409142349.450729a2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Herbert, I don't know anything about them but I saw one in a scrap yard a few weeks ago. I posted a question about it but never got any answers. Joe At 02:53 PM 4/9/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I have a vintage Televideo 910 Terminal which I know little about. It looks >just like a Lear Siegler ADM Terminal. I want to setup an authentic Altair >8800 display and was wondering if Televideo and Lear Siegler might be one >and the same company. > >Does anybody know more about it? > >Thanks >Herbert From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Apr 9 14:01:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: ADM Terminal = Televideo Terminal? References: Message-ID: <3E946DD7.5090007@gifford.co.uk> The Design Fort DTP wrote: > I have a vintage Televideo 910 Terminal which I know little about. It looks > just like a Lear Siegler ADM Terminal. I want to setup an authentic Altair > 8800 display and was wondering if Televideo and Lear Siegler might be one > and the same company. > > Does anybody know more about it? Televideo, also known as TVI, built Lear Siegler clones in about 1980. The TVI 910 was a basic ADM-3A clone, while the TVI 925 was styled more like a VT100. We used them on the Prime P750 at Westfield College in the early 1980s. But, just to complicate matters, the UK importer (Data Type) re-badged the TVI 910 as model DT22. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 9 14:08:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: ADM Terminal = Televideo Terminal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, The Design Fort DTP wrote: > I have a vintage Televideo 910 Terminal which I know little about. It looks > just like a Lear Siegler ADM Terminal. I want to setup an authentic Altair > 8800 display and was wondering if Televideo and Lear Siegler might be one > and the same company. > > Does anybody know more about it? Hi Herbert. Although they look similar, Televideo != Lear-Siegler. They were two completely different companies with distinct products. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spedraja at ono.com Wed Apr 9 14:26:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit References: <3.0.6.16.20030409130500.4bafda58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <007501c2fecd$8613f1c0$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> > Sergio, Thank you for the your interest, Joe :-) Your information is VERY valuable. Only rests the problem of the Bus Slots of the HP9000/380. While the previous 200 and 300 Series appear to have "edge" slots, my 380 have these that somebody named here "Euro Slots" or something so. Somebody talked too about some kind of slot conversor. What's about this ? Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio > Are you still interested in connecting a HP 9885 to your HP 9000/380? I've been going through some of my old HP manuals and I've found a lot more info. You definitely need the HP 98622 GPIO interface. The standard 98622 has a 50 pin female Ampenol connector (ie "SCSI" connector) and you'll have to make you're own cable. But if you find a 98622 option 002 interface it already has a 0.8m cable and connector for the 9885 disk drive. It also has the jumpers already set for use with the 9885 drive. The 98622 jumpers should be set as follows; BSY and BSY 0; PCL, PFLG, PSTS, HSHK, DIN, DOUT, RD, RDY, RD, RDY all set to 1. I know there appear to be some duplcates in the lists above but that's the way they're shown in the 98622 manual. I have the pin outs of the 98622 but I don't have them for the 9885. At least I don't have them readily available. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 9 14:51:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: Numbers of systems available Message-ID: I took Doug's advice and called Tom Fischer who took over IMSAI's operations when they went bankrupt. The number of IMSAI's produced is as follows: "According to a July 2002 e-mail from the IMSAI 8080 creator Joe Killian, "I remember passing the 17,000 mark. I believe it never went past 20,000" [between December of 1975 and September 1979]. Fischer-Freitas Company produced another 2100+ machines between November 1979 and June 1986. These machines can be identified by the Fischer-Freitas Company back panel label." This is right on the front page of imsai.net. More detailed information can be found here: http://www.imsai.net/history/imsai_history/imsai_pre_history.htm These numbers are not broken down by front panel vs. turnkey system, so it's still not readily known what the split was in terms of those counts. IMSAI also sold a number of other machines. Here's a nice summary (still being edited by Tom so some inaccuracies exist): http://www.imsai.net/support/imsai_systems.htm -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 9 15:12:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: HP computer manuals FA Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030409161027.3f6fcf10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've just finished listing a pile of HP computer manuals on E-bay. There are manuals for both BASIC and HP-UX. A couple of the BASIC manuals are VERY helpfull if you own a HP 9000 series 200 or 300 computer. I STRONGLY recommend the BASIC Programming Techniques and BASIC Interfacing Techniques manuals if you're trying to use one of these computers. See . I will be listing more as I have time to sort through them. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 9 15:34:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit In-Reply-To: <007501c2fecd$8613f1c0$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030409130500.4bafda58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030409163138.44dfafca@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Sergio, I was the one that brought up the subject of the slots. IIRC the 380 only has DIO-II slots. The 98622 fits in a DIO-1 (usually just called DIO) slot. If so then you'll need the "slot upgrade". I have the "HP A1401a DIO-I Slot Upgrade Installation Guide". This is a slot converter for the HP 9000 400 series computers but I think it may be identical to the one used for the 300 series computers. There's not much to it, just a frame the fits in the DIO-II slot. It has a wide ribbon cable to plugs into the DIO-II connector and that has a DIO-I connector on the other end. I've seen these in some the 300 sereis computers that I've looked at so I don't think it would be hard to find one. I MAY have one in one of my 300s but I haven't looked. Joe At 09:23 PM 4/9/03 +0200, you wrote: >> Sergio, > >Thank you for the your interest, Joe :-) > >Your information is VERY valuable. Only rests the problem of the Bus Slots >of >the HP9000/380. While the previous 200 and 300 Series appear to have "edge" >slots, >my 380 have these that somebody named here "Euro Slots" or something so. >Somebody talked too about some kind of slot conversor. What's about this ? > >Thanks and Greetings >Best Regards >Sergio > >> Are you still interested in connecting a HP 9885 to your HP 9000/380? >I've been going through some of my old HP manuals and I've found a lot more >info. You definitely need the HP 98622 GPIO interface. The standard 98622 >has a 50 pin female Ampenol connector (ie "SCSI" connector) and you'll have >to make you're own cable. But if you find a 98622 option 002 interface it >already has a 0.8m cable and connector for the 9885 disk drive. It also has >the jumpers already set for use with the 9885 drive. The 98622 jumpers >should be set as follows; BSY and BSY 0; PCL, PFLG, PSTS, HSHK, DIN, DOUT, >RD, RDY, RD, RDY all set to 1. I know there appear to be some duplcates in >the lists above but that's the way they're shown in the 98622 manual. I >have the pin outs of the 98622 but I don't have them for the 9885. At least >I don't have them readily available. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 9 15:43:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit In-Reply-To: <007501c2fecd$8613f1c0$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> from "SPC" at Apr 9, 3 09:23:38 pm Message-ID: > the lists above but that's the way they're shown in the 98622 manual. I > have the pin outs of the 98622 but I don't have them for the 9885. At least > I don't have them readily available. If it's any help. I'll include the wirelist of the cable to link the 9885 to the 98032 GPIO interface (for the HP98x5 machines). That at least should give the pinout.... The 'wire' column gives the wire colour using the resistor colour code (base colour, then first stripe, then second stripe). The 'DD50' column is the connectr on the 9885. Ignore the 'jumpers' section -- that refers to the configuration jumpers inside the 98032 interface. DD50 Wire 98032 Signal 1 9 A25 Drain 2 905 A1 Gnd 3 906 B1 Gnd 4 927 A22 Ctl0 5 902 A21 PReset 6 928 A23 Ctl1 7 918 B21 EIR 8 9 A18 Gnd 9 9 B18 Drain 10 98 A19 Pctl 11 903 A24 Gnd 12 904 B24 Gnd 13 8 B19 Pflg 14 908 B20 Psts 15 901 A20 I/O 16 916 B22 Sti0 17 917 B23 Sti1 18 948 A2 DO15 19 947 A3 DO14 20 946 A4 DO13 21 945 A5 DO12 22 937 A6 DO11 23 936 A7 DO10 24 935 A8 DO9 25 934 A9 DO8 26 97 A10 DO7 27 96 A11 DO6 28 95 A12 D05 29 94 A13 DO4 30 93 A14 DO3 31 92 A15 DO2 32 91 A16 DO1 33 90 A17 DO0 34 N/C 35 926 B2 DI15 36 925 B3 DI14 37 924 B4 DI13 38 923 B5 DI12 39 915 B6 DI11 40 914 B7 DI10 41 913 B8 DI9 42 912 B9 DI8 43 7 B10 DI7 44 6 B11 DI6 45 5 B12 DI5 46 4 B13 DI4 47 3 B14 DI3 48 2 B15 DI2 49 1 B16 DI1 50 0 B17 DI0 Jumpers : 2 Output +ve true 7 DMA Enable 8 Clock high input byte on rdy B Word Input E Clock low input byte on rdy F Word Output > -tony From spedraja at ono.com Wed Apr 9 15:54:01 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit References: <3.0.6.16.20030409130500.4bafda58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030409163138.44dfafca@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <008d01c2fed9$e25254c0$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> > Sergio, > > I was the one that brought up the subject of the slots [...] Ok, I forgot it :-) > IIRC the 380 only has DIO-II slots. The 98622 fits in a DIO-1 (usually just called DIO) slot. [...] I MAY have one in one of my 300s but I haven't looked. If you locate one I should like to speak with you about get it (in case that you want to sell it, of course). Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Wed Apr 9 16:40:01 2003 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: SN76477N In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E9492C3.nailK5111FH41@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> >>They've got some other neat stuff, like the 5x7 LED arrays that HP >>used in their desktop calculator machinery. >Do you mean the 4-character displays used in the 9820 and 9830? If so, I >know people who are looking for spares of those. I don't know if they're identical (I owned a 9830 but never had to fix it), but they are very superficially very similar. The data sheets and application notes for the HP parts that BG Micro sells are at http://www.bgmicro.com/proddoc.asp as the document for BG Micro part number ACS1076. I use these hooked to a PIC to make custom alphanumeric displays. They suck power like it's before the 1973 energy crisis :-) Tim. From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Apr 9 17:53:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: DEC Star Coupler Message-ID: Saw these when scrounging through eBay auctions. No relation to seller/merchandise/etc http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411169964&category=1247 "DEC PDP Digital SC008-AB Star Coupler A & B" Looks like the Star Coupler that I sold a few weeks ago on the list. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Apr 9 18:16:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness Message-ID: To me it looks like just another TRS-80 model 4, with some common software. Which, to me, means that it's worth quite a bit less than what it's going for: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411037612&category=1247 (For those non-web-inclined, it's at $510 with 3.7 hrs left) Is this just a fluke, or have these things gone up a lot in value since I last looked at them? My guess, is of course, 'just eBay prices,' but even on eBay, I rarely see pricing *that far* off what I'd expect. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 9 18:55:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030409195251.59a74c70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hey the seller is our very own Mike (Dog Ass) Haas! I think that's the model 4 that I gave him at the last junk-fest we had down here. I'm SURE that he's pleased with the price. Joe At 06:19 PM 4/9/03 -0500, you wrote: >To me it looks like just another TRS-80 model 4, with some common >software. Which, to me, means that it's worth quite a bit less than >what it's going for: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411037612&category=1247 > >(For those non-web-inclined, it's at $510 with 3.7 hrs left) > >Is this just a fluke, or have these things gone up a lot in value since I >last looked at them? My guess, is of course, 'just eBay prices,' but even >on eBay, I rarely see pricing *that far* off what I'd expect. > >Pat >-- >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 9 18:58:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: "Practicle Microprocessors" was Re: TRS-80 Madness Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030409195414.59a7b3d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Somebody here was looking for this book at couple of weeks ago. Mike has one included with a HP 5036 Microprocesor lab that he's selling in his other auctions. Joe > > Hey the seller is our very own Mike (Dog Ass) Haas! I think that's the model 4 that I gave him at the last junk-fest we had down here. I'm SURE that he's pleased with the price. > > Joe > >At 06:19 PM 4/9/03 -0500, you wrote: >>To me it looks like just another TRS-80 model 4, with some common >>software. Which, to me, means that it's worth quite a bit less than >>what it's going for: >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411037612&category=1247 >> >>(For those non-web-inclined, it's at $510 with 3.7 hrs left) >> >>Is this just a fluke, or have these things gone up a lot in value since I >>last looked at them? My guess, is of course, 'just eBay prices,' but even >>on eBay, I rarely see pricing *that far* off what I'd expect. >> >>Pat >>-- >>Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS >>Information Technology at Purdue >>Research Computing and Storage >>http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Apr 9 20:00:01 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030409195251.59a74c70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200304100057.TAA28057@caesar.cs.umn.edu> It seems like a lot of money to me. Not that I follow TRS-80 prices. If it does have 128K, that memory upgrade requires a special PAL or something, so perhaps they think this is something special. Still, it makes me want to sell my system ;) it doesnt have 128K, but I do have an unused memory upgrade kit, including the special chip, that i ordered from Radio Shack back when I heard they still had stuff like that in a warehouse. Years ago. -Lawrence LeMay > Hey the seller is our very own Mike (Dog Ass) Haas! I think that's the model 4 that I gave him at the last junk-fest we had down here. I'm SURE that he's pleased with the price. > > Joe > > At 06:19 PM 4/9/03 -0500, you wrote: > >To me it looks like just another TRS-80 model 4, with some common > >software. Which, to me, means that it's worth quite a bit less than > >what it's going for: > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411037612&category=1247 > > > >(For those non-web-inclined, it's at $510 with 3.7 hrs left) > > > >Is this just a fluke, or have these things gone up a lot in value since I > >last looked at them? My guess, is of course, 'just eBay prices,' but even > >on eBay, I rarely see pricing *that far* off what I'd expect. > > > >Pat > >-- > >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > >Information Technology at Purdue > >Research Computing and Storage > >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 9 20:17:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030409211439.518fff2c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> FYI, there are a couple of pictures of HP 98622 GPIO cards at . The item there isn't a DataComm unit. It's a system expander chassis for an HP 9000 200 or 300 series computer! It has four GPIO cards, three Datacomm cards and one HP-IB card in it. The empty slot at the bottom is supposed to house the interface card that connects it back to a 9000 200 or 300 series computer. Note that the interface cards cover TWO expansion slots even though they only use one slot. It's very possible that there are other cards installed in this chassis but they're covered up and can't be seen. Joe From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Apr 9 20:20:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:54 2005 Subject: ADM Terminal = Televideo Terminal? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030409142349.450729a2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <4FD4264E-6AF2-11D7-8801-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Hi All I used to work for Televideo. They are still alive and kicking, Their offices are now in San Jose, CA. They currently have a line of thin clients. no longer do they do terminals. Televideo started out as a Monitor manufacturer (their logo is a cube made of monitor screens) Then they branched out into terminals. Next they had a line of 8 bit computers running cpm Next they had a line of PC-Clone computers running DOS and SCO (in the 286's) They added a line of add on boards (Zuckerboards). Funny name, because the guy and his wife who made the zuckerboards charged up corporate credit cards before they split. Televideo no longer makes terminals or computer systems except the Cyrix based thin client. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Apr 9 20:40:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: Installing SAVER on RSTS/E Message-ID: <1049938659.22151.1.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> I have this 9 track tape labeled "Saver Version 2.8 for RSTS". The tape appears to be 100% readable, and I'd like to install the software. Trouble is, I don't have any docs on the installation procedure. Any one have any info? -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 9 20:42:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: ADM Terminal = Televideo Terminal? In-Reply-To: <4FD4264E-6AF2-11D7-8801-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > I used to work for Televideo. They are still alive and kicking, Their > offices are now in San Jose, CA. > They currently have a line of thin clients. no longer do they do > terminals. What is the dividing line between a "thin client" and a "terminal"? From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 9 20:46:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > To me it looks like just another TRS-80 model 4, with some common > software. Which, to me, means that it's worth quite a bit less than > what it's going for: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411037612&category=1247 > > (For those non-web-inclined, it's at $510 with 3.7 hrs left) > > Is this just a fluke, or have these things gone up a lot in value since I > last looked at them? My guess, is of course, 'just eBay prices,' but even > on eBay, I rarely see pricing *that far* off what I'd expect. I once sold a common Apple /// for $510. I think sometimes it's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Apr 9 20:49:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: ADM Terminal = Televideo Terminal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1049939188.22153.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Wed, 2003-04-09 at 21:40, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > > I used to work for Televideo. They are still alive and kicking, Their > > offices are now in San Jose, CA. > > They currently have a line of thin clients. no longer do they do > > terminals. > > What is the dividing line between a "thin client" and a "terminal"? I think that generally, a "thin client" displays GUI type stuff, while a terminal is character based. Also, Thin Clients are usually associated with MicroSoft based systems such as Terminal Server and Citrix WinFrame. They generally use the MS T-Streams protocol or Citrix ICA protocol. They are kinda like X servers, only for Windoze. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Apr 9 21:00:00 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness References: <3.0.6.16.20030409195251.59a74c70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002b01c2ff03$6270ce60$5a19d7d1@DOMAIN> Model 3,4, II, and 16s have been seeing good action there lately. But, I'm suprised too, and needfully thankful.... .Alot of those funds are going to the support that computer's brethern and their curator through dark times. It was my nicest Model 4 (with the 128k) by the way, and Joe, I think that was a 4p from off you then. (I prefer them to the bigger 4's anyway) I did start the bidding out at $25 and when I saw it blast off, I tried to sweeten the deal and will probably throw in some bonusii too Cheers - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From: Joe > Hey the seller is our very own Mike (Dog Ass) Haas! I think that's the model 4 that I gave him at the last junk-fest we had down here. I'm SURE that he's pleased with the price. > > Joe > > At 06:19 PM 4/9/03 -0500, you wrote: > >To me it looks like just another TRS-80 model 4, with some common > >software. Which, to me, means that it's worth quite a bit less than > >what it's going for: > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411037612&category=1247 > > > >(For those non-web-inclined, it's at $510 with 3.7 hrs left) > > > >Is this just a fluke, or have these things gone up a lot in value since I > >last looked at them? My guess, is of course, 'just eBay prices,' but even > >on eBay, I rarely see pricing *that far* off what I'd expect. > > > >Pat > >-- > >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > >Information Technology at Purdue > >Research Computing and Storage > >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Apr 9 21:02:00 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: "Practicle Microprocessors" was Re: TRS-80 Madness References: <3.0.6.16.20030409195414.59a7b3d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <003301c2ff03$bcf78cc0$5a19d7d1@DOMAIN> From: Joe > Somebody here was looking for this book at couple of weeks ago. Mike has one included with a HP 5036 Microprocesor lab that he's selling in his other auctions. > Yup, that one's mine tooo and that was Stuart Johnson. I've got his request and am going down to Kinko's on Friday and will punch out a copy then... ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Apr 9 22:03:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: ADM Terminal = Televideo Terminal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91127AB9-6B00-11D7-8801-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 06:40 PM, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: >> I used to work for Televideo. They are still alive and kicking, Their >> offices are now in San Jose, CA. >> They currently have a line of thin clients. no longer do they do >> terminals. > > What is the dividing line between a "thin client" and a "terminal"? > > Mostly the kind of display, the terminal is a character based kind of device. The thin client usually is a graphics based device, like a box only running an X server or a Windows "display process". Neither actually do any calculations, or store any data - they only display whatever "boss" tells 'em to. From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Apr 9 22:06:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: "Practicle Microprocessors" was Re: TRS-80 Madness References: <3.0.6.16.20030409195414.59a7b3d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <003301c2ff03$bcf78cc0$5a19d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <0b8f01c2ff0d$bbdee540$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 8:51 PM Subject: Re: "Practicle Microprocessors" was Re: TRS-80 Madness > From: Joe > > > Somebody here was looking for this book at couple of weeks ago. Mike > has one included with a HP 5036 Microprocesor lab that he's selling in his > other auctions. > > > > Yup, that one's mine tooo and that was Stuart Johnson. I've got his > request and am going down to Kinko's on Friday and will punch out a copy > then... > > ;) > - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net Yes, and I am really looking forward to it! These manuals seem to be rather difficult to find. Stuart Johnson From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Apr 9 22:14:01 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: "Practicle Microprocessors" was Re: TRS-80 Madness References: <3.0.6.16.20030409195414.59a7b3d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <003301c2ff03$bcf78cc0$5a19d7d1@DOMAIN> <0b8f01c2ff0d$bbdee540$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <001e01c2ff0d$b0482110$5a19d7d1@DOMAIN> From: Stuart Johnson > > > > ;) > > - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > Yes, and I am really looking forward to it! These manuals seem to be rather > difficult to find. > > Stuart Johnson No problem, It'll just be your turn next time someone needs a copy From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Apr 9 22:45:01 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 4/9/03 6:19 PM, Patrick Finnegan at pat@purdueriots.com wrote: > To me it looks like just another TRS-80 model 4, with some common > software. Which, to me, means that it's worth quite a bit less than > what it's going for: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411037612&category=1247 > > (For those non-web-inclined, it's at $510 with 3.7 hrs left) Whoa. I have a TRS-80 Model 4 and more software than the one on eBay comes with. And mine's a NGA, white screen, 128K version, too, with a 15MB Tandy hard disk unit and everything. I spent maybe $100-$150 accumulating my system. BTW - If anyone happens to have a non-gate-array Model 4 keyboard (not the one with clustered arrow keys, that's gate-array) I would like to get a replacement for my keyboard which is damaged. Also - if anyone has a Model 6000 keyboard... I could use one of those too. -- Owen Robertson From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Wed Apr 9 23:58:00 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: DEC 7000 available in exchange for help with big stuff from Boston Message-ID: <3E94F943.9080002@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I set a reward of a nice DEC 7000 with 4 CPUs (AXP) and 1.5 GB RAM and SCSI for the one who would come with a truck and get it and --- here is the catch --- bring me my VAX 11/785 (plus more) gear from Boston. I was going to sell the 7000 on ebay to make money to afford the move, but now I figure that a trade in this way would be the more conservative thing to do. Anybody interested? thanks, -Gunther X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from pop015.verizon.net (pop015pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.172]) by aurora.regenstrief.org (8.12.3/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h2T36aqK012910 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 22:06:37 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from fdebros@verizon.net) Received: from fred ([141.154.74.176]) by pop015.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030329030632.PKIL24156.pop015.verizon.net@fred> for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:06:32 -0600 From: "Fred deBros" To: "'Gunther Schadow'" Subject: RE: Vaxen vultures on ebay ... and is "rtlacy" here? Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 22:06:02 -0500 Message-ID: <001701c2f5a0$21b1d430$6401a8c0@fred> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <3E84BA46.3090800@aurora.regenstrief.org> X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop015.verizon.net from [141.154.74.176] at Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:06:32 -0600 What can I do for u sir? Fred/Boston Now I wonder, just in case, is anyone of you out in the Boston area, just in case? regards, -Gunther From spedraja at ono.com Thu Apr 10 00:01:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit References: <3.0.6.16.20030409211439.518fff2c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00d101c2ff1d$a3490000$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> Hi, Joe > FYI, there are a couple of pictures of HP 98622 GPIO cards at . Mmmm... Could I use it with one 9000/380 ? I ever was curious about these expansion units and its possible use with my system. Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 10 07:15:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: HP9885 8" floppy unit In-Reply-To: <00d101c2ff1d$a3490000$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030409211439.518fff2c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030410075505.46672312@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I *believe* that it could be used with a 380 but you'd need the interface card that goes in the bottom slot of the 9888 along with the cable and the card that goes in the computer. IIRC these are usually one big assembly. The card that goes into the computer is a DIO card so you'd need the DIO-II to DIO slot converter. There are expansion chassis for the 300 series but I don't know if they fit every 3xx model. Usually you replace the 3xx cover with a cover with a slot in the top. Then the expansion chassis sits on top of the 3xx and there is a short card that connects bewteen the two backplanes. Essentially it converts the 3xx into a taller chassis with more slots. Joe At 06:57 AM 4/10/03 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, Joe > > >> FYI, there are a couple of pictures of HP 98622 GPIO cards at >>. > >Mmmm... Could I use it with one 9000/380 ? I ever was curious about these >expansion units and its possible use with my system. > >Thanks and Greetings >Best Regards >Sergio From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Thu Apr 10 07:26:00 2003 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc 1+ real cheap Message-ID: Don't know if this would be of interest to anyone here. These are Sun Sparc 1+ systems for $5.00 US. http://www.pcliquidator.com/detailproduct.asp?which=864 I am not affiliated with them in anyway. Greg Manuel From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Apr 10 08:07:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: DEC 7000 available in exchange for help with big stuff from Boston References: <3E94F943.9080002@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3E956CAF.C01349FE@comcast.net> Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Hi, > > I set a reward of a nice DEC 7000 with 4 CPUs (AXP) and 1.5 GB RAM > and SCSI for the one who would come with a truck and get it and --- > here is the catch --- bring me my VAX 11/785 (plus more) gear from > Boston. I was going to sell the 7000 on ebay to make money to > afford the move, but now I figure that a trade in this way would > be the more conservative thing to do. > > Anybody interested? Hmmm... where are you located, and what kind of truck would be needed? -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Apr 10 08:33:01 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness References: Message-ID: <003501c2ff64$2c5fe610$42881442@DOMAIN> Hey, speaking of TRS-80 madness... I've always had it and I'm still looking for those rare pieces to add to my model 1, and coco3 systems like a voxbox, huh-8100, that digital i/o board (a tar/80???) and a ide/scsi card for the coco... Anyone with any of thiis and other cool gear wanna trade stuff for stuff? Cheers - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 10 09:11:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: <003501c2ff64$2c5fe610$42881442@DOMAIN> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030410100901.0fe78f56@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Mike, I don't have any TRS stuff except one 6000 and the model 4. You got everything else :-/ That early model I and the Holmes stuff would probably bring a GOOD price on E-bay. I do have some interesting Amiga cards. BTW can you make a copy of some of your model 4 SW for me? I could download it but I'm too lazy :-) BTW there's a hamfest in Gainsvile the weekend after Easter. It's small and probably not worth attending. Joe At 09:22 AM 4/10/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hey, speaking of TRS-80 madness... I've always had it and I'm still >looking for those rare pieces to add to my model 1, and coco3 systems like >a voxbox, huh-8100, that digital i/o board (a tar/80???) and a ide/scsi card >for the coco... Anyone with any of thiis and other cool gear wanna trade >stuff for stuff? > >Cheers >- Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From spedraja at ono.com Thu Apr 10 09:24:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness References: <003501c2ff64$2c5fe610$42881442@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <002501c2ff6c$7d2ac120$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> Hi ! > Hey, speaking of TRS-80 madness... I've always had it and I'm still > looking for those rare pieces to add to my model 1, and coco3 systems like > a voxbox, huh-8100, that digital i/o board (a tar/80???) and a ide/scsi card > for the coco... Anyone with any of thiis and other cool gear wanna trade > stuff for stuff? I approach the occasion... Someone know about one Tandy system with Xenix installed ? I saw some of these in eBay months ago and I should like to get one some day. Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Apr 10 09:31:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: FS/FT: VaxStation 3100 m38; C-128; Atari 800 Message-ID: <3E957FB9.7EB78DAD@comcast.net> Well, in the process of going through my computer room, and sorting stuff out to keep, and get rid of; I've decided to get rid of 3 of my classics. They've sat around for too long, going unused. So... --- VaxStation 3100 m38 - 32MB RAM (maximum!) - 600 MB HDD in matching Storage Expansion Unit - mono video output - VR262 monitor (Don't think it works, might be a minor repair) it does drive a Digital VRT-17 fine on the green channel fine, though. - Installing & Using the VR262 manual - cables & power cords - including a MMJ cable & MMJ-DB25 adapter - 2 keyboards (IIRC LK201) - I'll make sure they work first... - Owner's binder - Customer Hardware Info/Planning & Prep/Owner's Manual/Network Guide - NetBSD 1.5 is currently installed --- C-128 & Atari 800 - both have 5 1/4 floppy drives, power cables, joystick - Bunch of games and apps Best offer. Pick up in New Haven CT preferred (especially for the Vax). The C-128 and Atari should'nt be that bad to ship, though. Cash, money order, PayPal. For trade, I'm looking for SCSI & IDE HDDs over 4GB, true-parity memory, PC100/133 DIMMs, P-III 800 CPU, 19" monitor... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Apr 10 09:52:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: <002501c2ff6c$7d2ac120$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> References: <003501c2ff64$2c5fe610$42881442@DOMAIN> <002501c2ff6c$7d2ac120$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <20030410145008.GA30686@www.4mcnabb.net> On Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 04:21:33PM +0200, SPC wrote: > > I approach the occasion... Someone know about one Tandy system with Xenix > installed ? I saw some of these in eBay months ago and I should like to get > one some day. > Back in the early part of the last decade I had a Tandy 6000 that had Microsoft Xenix installed on an external 20Meg Harddrive. It also had two eight inch floppies. It was larger than a normal PC, but smaller than a rack mount system. I also had several Tandy terminals to go with it. These looked like the 6K, but had no "brains" in them. Alas, the Tandy 6K is another one of those machines I wish I had never gotten rid of, along with the IMSAI 8008 I sold for 50 bucks back in the mid eighties. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Apr 10 09:55:01 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness References: <3.0.6.16.20030410100901.0fe78f56@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000d01c2ff6f$af6cc8b0$4edb3fd0@DOMAIN> > Mike, > > I don't have any TRS stuff except one 6000 and the model 4. You got everything else :-/ That early model I and the Holmes stuff would probably bring a GOOD price on E-bay. I do have some interesting Nope, private stash and toys. That Holmes interface is sweet. I also have a LNW ei bareboard and a MDX II ei (nice as the Holmes) along with the normal RS one too or a few.. Amiga cards. BTW can you make a copy of some of your model 4 SW for me? I could download it but I'm too lazy :-) ok... BTW there's a hamfest in Gainsvile the weekend after Easter. It's small and probably not worth attending. Well, I don't think the car will make it that far, but, ok. ;) - Mike > > Joe > > At 09:22 AM 4/10/03 -0400, you wrote: > >Hey, speaking of TRS-80 madness... I've always had it and I'm still > >looking for those rare pieces to add to my model 1, and coco3 systems like > >a voxbox, huh-8100, that digital i/o board (a tar/80???) and a ide/scsi card > >for the coco... Anyone with any of thiis and other cool gear wanna trade > >stuff for stuff? > > > >Cheers > >- Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 10 10:04:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: <002501c2ff6c$7d2ac120$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> References: <003501c2ff64$2c5fe610$42881442@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030410110218.3dbfe354@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:21 PM 4/10/03 +0200, you wrote: >Hi ! > >> Hey, speaking of TRS-80 madness... I've always had it and I'm still >> looking for those rare pieces to add to my model 1, and coco3 systems >like >> a voxbox, huh-8100, that digital i/o board (a tar/80???) and a ide/scsi >card >> for the coco... Anyone with any of thiis and other cool gear wanna trade >> stuff for stuff? > >I approach the occasion... Someone know about one Tandy system with Xenix >installed ? Sounds like a Tandy 6000. I have one but Mike got all my manuals :-/ The 6000 has both a 68000 and a Z-80 CPU and runs XENIX or CPM. Mine is a 6000HD and has an internal hard drive and an 8" floppy drive. They were multi-user systems and definitely a notch above the usual TRS stuff. Joe I saw some of these in eBay months ago and I should like to get >one some day. > >Thanks and Greetings >Best Regards >Sergio From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Apr 10 10:14:00 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: micropolis disk question Message-ID: <3E958986.776872C9@xs4all.nl> Hello all, I have picked up 2 micropolis disks, type 1325. Question is, are they ESDI or ST-506 type of disks? The card edge connectors are identical. Thanks, Ed -- From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Apr 10 10:14:12 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness References: <003501c2ff64$2c5fe610$42881442@DOMAIN> <002501c2ff6c$7d2ac120$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <001301c2ff72$5bdc15e0$4edb3fd0@DOMAIN> From: SPC > I approach the occasion... Someone know about one Tandy system with Xenix > installed ? I saw some of these in eBay months ago and I should like to get > one some day. I have a few 16 and 6000 crates. The 16 I played with last was having a failure to (visually) communicate even though the raster was there. I pulled the cards and didnt see anything obvious and the cards reseat didn't help so the junk factor is a little higher, but hey, one of (or with parts of one of) the others might... I had a few extra 6000 keyboards, Owen, but some dude in Canada has borrowed them for a data rescue and I haven't seen them back yet. - > Thanks and Greetings > Best Regards > Sergio From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 10 10:19:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: <002501c2ff6c$7d2ac120$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, SPC wrote: > I approach the occasion... Someone know about one Tandy system with Xenix > installed ? I saw some of these in eBay months ago and I should like to get > one some day. I have a Tandy 6000 (or it might be a Model 12 or something) that runs Xenix (boots from floppy but I believe it may also be installed to a hard drive). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Apr 10 10:41:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: <003501c2ff64$2c5fe610$42881442@DOMAIN> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030410113008.02d31f18@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Mike may have mentioned these words: >Hey, speaking of TRS-80 madness... I've always had it and I'm still >looking for those rare pieces to add to my model 1, and coco3 systems like >a voxbox, huh-8100, that digital i/o board (a tar/80???) and a ide/scsi card >for the coco... Anyone with any of thiis and other cool gear wanna trade >stuff for stuff? If you don't mind trading for $$$, go here: http://www.cloud9tech.com/ Lotsa CoCo stuff, that the guy's still making! (New stuff, too!) He has a SCSI CD-ROM kit now! :-O hmmm.... Hopefully I'll have a little cash left over from job #2... ;-) HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 10 10:46:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: micropolis disk question In-Reply-To: <3E958986.776872C9@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20030410154415.77135.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ed wrote: > Hello all, > > I have picked up 2 micropolis disks, type 1325. Question is, are they > ESDI or ST-506 type of disks? The card edge connectors are identical. ST-506/ST412, not ESDI. The ESDI drive that looks like these is a model 1355, IIRC. I've seen the ESDI drives in old outboard Sun boxes. The 1325 can be converted to DEC use (as a 73MB RD53) by adding the infamous 0 ohm jumper at R7, then low-level formatting on a MicroVAX 2000 (using the ROM diagnostic formatter) or a Qbus MicroVAX with an RQDX3 and the Diagnostic tape formatter, or even a Qbus PDP-11 w/RQDX3 and XXDP. It large enough to run VMS 5.0 (barely) or 2.11BSD (barely) or 2.9BSD (with some room to spare). RT-11 is a possibility, too (v5.4 and up?), but you'd have to partition the drive into multiple "devices". To get to the jumper, loosen the two flat-head screws at one end of the circuit board on the bottom of the drive, tip it up (it's on a pivot), and look for R7 on the silkscreen, somewhat near the middle of the board. Solder in a jumper wire, reassemble and install! If these drives came out of a PeeCee, check the unit jumpers before putting them to use in a DEC machine. To forestall any "warnings", you will probably find that these drives do not have the best longevity. Many of them have lots of hours accumulated already. They probably won't stand up to heavy use. The bearings seem to go in the ones that I've had fail. I don't think I've ever had a head crash. -ethan From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 10 10:57:00 2003 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: For sale/give away In-Reply-To: <002701c2fe90$8b5d2bc0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> from "[Jo_l Weber]" at "Apr 9, 2003 02:07:07 pm" Message-ID: <200304101554.IAA16728@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> > can i pay with check? I'd prefer something dollar denominated. My bank would probably charge me $10 to cash a foreign check. Is paypal an option? I hate to use it, but it's probably the cheapest option for both of us. Eric > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric J. Korpela" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:33 AM > Subject: Re: For sale/give away > > > > [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > > hello, i want to know the price to shipping the swith to france (for the > 4 > > > port switch). thanks > > > > 7 day delivery is US$11. 4-6 weeks delivery is US$5.10. Both via post > office. > > > > Eric > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Eric J. Korpela" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 9:44 PM > > > Subject: RE: For sale/give away > > > > > > > > > > For anyone who tried to reach me after about 21:00 PDT last night, > > > > we had a little configuration problem here that resulted in bounced > > > > mail. > > > > > > > > Please try again, as most of the items are still available. > > > > > > > > It looks like the problem is now fixed. > > > > > > > > Sorry for the bounces. > > > > > > > > Eric From kth at srv.net Thu Apr 10 11:00:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: Installing SAVER on RSTS/E References: <1049938659.22151.1.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3E958DDE.6080708@srv.net> Christopher McNabb wrote: >I have this 9 track tape labeled "Saver Version 2.8 for RSTS". The tape >appears to be 100% readable, and I'd like to install the software. >Trouble is, I don't have any docs on the installation procedure. Any >one have any info? > > > Saver 2.8 is from the older style of install procedures. It's main reason for existing was because of the extremely horrible preformance of the standard backup program. I used to have a manual for it, but cannot locate it any more. I'm not sure if it will install properly on RSTS greater than version 8, as it doesn't seem to work on 10. log into 1,2, then $ run build BUILD V10.1-A RSTS V10.1-L RSTS/E V10.1 Input device <_SY:> ? ms0: Output device <_SY0:> ? Control File is ? saver.ctl *** Copying file _MS0:[1,2]SAVER.CTL to BLD02.TMP *** Installation Procedure for SAVER Version 2.8 Locate SAVER on (device:[account]) ? sy0:[1,66] %Account _SY0:[1,66] does not exist - create it ? yes Account _SY0:[1,66] created - SAVER will be installed on SY0:[1,66] ....... Answer lots of questions ....... Many things happen ! ! Install the SAVR28 RTS to make sure it installs and then ! Add the CCL ! RUN SY:[1,2]UTILTY UTILTY V10.1-A RSTS V10.1-L RSTS/E V10.1 #REMOVE SAVR28 ?Can't find file or account - in REMOVE #ADD SY0:[1,66]SAVR28 ?Protection violation - in ADD ?Error in job ?Command file aborted From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Apr 10 11:20:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E95B595.7580.2F0E6BF8@localhost> > > To me it looks like just another TRS-80 model 4, with some common > > software. Which, to me, means that it's worth quite a bit less than > > what it's going for: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411037612&category=1247 > > (For those non-web-inclined, it's at $510 with 3.7 hrs left) > > Is this just a fluke, or have these things gone up a lot in value since I > > last looked at them? My guess, is of course, 'just eBay prices,' but even > > on eBay, I rarely see pricing *that far* off what I'd expect. > I once sold a common Apple /// for $510. I think sometimes it's just a > matter of being in the right place at the right time. Well, there's a saying: 'Every day one idiot gets up, all you have to do (to be successful) is to find him'.... looks like your apple /// and this TRS M4 whent to the respective one on each day... The biding of this computernews80 guy was AFAICT reasonable. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Apr 10 11:20:35 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: References: <200304090159.SAA28951@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E95B595.6246.2F0E6C18@localhost> From: > > >One thing I was always interested in - and the visitors in my Computer > > >Museum often want to know - is how many of the very first personal computers > > >are still in existence. By first PCs I mean the following machines: > > >Kenbak 1 > > >Scelbi 8h > > >Mark-8 > > >IBM 5100 > > >Apple 1 > > >Altair 8800 > > >IMSAI 8080 > > Hi > > Missed the Poly88. > Well, for that matter there's the Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1, Compal-80, > Sphere 6800, SWTPc 6800, Intel MCS-4, Intel MCS-8, KIM-1, Jolt, etc. (all > within the time frame between the Kenbak 1 and the IMSAI 8080). And dont forget the little Ebka Industries Familiarizor 6502 :)) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Apr 10 12:16:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: Fwd: ..Hi.........Can you help? References: <3E95A357.7060507@attibi.com> Message-ID: <200304101013410459.03C9CC0B@192.168.42.129> Hi, gang, I received the attached E-mail from a math tutor at one of the schools outside Pittsburgh. He needs assistance with some Apple II stuff that I have no familiarity with at all. If any of you can help in what certainly seems to be a worthy quest, please contact Randy directly. Thanks much. Attachment follows. *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 10-Apr-03 at 13:01 Randy Sammons wrote: >Hello, > Can you help me? I tutor math at a juvenile institution >outside of Pittsburgh, Pa. and still use an Apple II E computer(made in >1982). My math program is a very good one...but now down to three 5 >1/4" disks which were made in 1984. The software company is long out >of existence.(Instructional Communications Technoglogy,Inc.) > Do you know of anyone who has three useable 5 1/4" disks?..(my >disks say: Apple II (48K) Dos 3.3 Version)..and can my three disks be >copied? > ..Can these disks be copied to a normal 3 1/2" PC disk? > Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated. > Thank you, > Randy Sammons > Irwin, Pa. > 724.864.2719 > > *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From jss at subatomix.com Thu Apr 10 12:43:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030410174328.GA28798@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, Owen Robertson wrote: > Whoa. I have a TRS-80 Model 4 and more software than the one on eBay comes > with. And mine's a NGA, white screen, 128K version, too, with a 15MB Tandy > hard disk unit and everything. I spent maybe $100-$150 accumulating my > system. You remember that M4 we picked up downtown in Ft. Worth for ~$10? That's the most I've ever paid for a TRS-80. -- Jeffrey Sharp From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Apr 10 13:47:00 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: micropolis disk question References: <20030410154415.77135.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E95BB95.D20627AE@xs4all.nl> Thanks! I did find the jumper, it's on the left if you look to the board in it's upright position. Using XXDP is no problem, I can run it on my 11/83. These two drives were used on former Norsk Data computers and one of the two drives is still in it's original packaging. Ed Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Ed wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I have picked up 2 micropolis disks, type 1325. Question is, are they > > ESDI or ST-506 type of disks? The card edge connectors are identical. > > ST-506/ST412, not ESDI. The ESDI drive that looks like these is a > model 1355, IIRC. I've seen the ESDI drives in old outboard Sun > boxes. > > The 1325 can be converted to DEC use (as a 73MB RD53) by adding > the infamous 0 ohm jumper at R7, then low-level formatting on > a MicroVAX 2000 (using the ROM diagnostic formatter) or a Qbus > MicroVAX with an RQDX3 and the Diagnostic tape formatter, or > even a Qbus PDP-11 w/RQDX3 and XXDP. It large enough to run > VMS 5.0 (barely) or 2.11BSD (barely) or 2.9BSD (with some room to > spare). RT-11 is a possibility, too (v5.4 and up?), but you'd have to > partition the drive into multiple "devices". > > To get to the jumper, loosen the two flat-head screws at one end of the > circuit board on the bottom of the drive, tip it up (it's on a pivot), > and look for R7 on the silkscreen, somewhat near the middle of the > board. Solder in a jumper wire, reassemble and install! If these drives > came out of a PeeCee, check the unit jumpers before putting them to > use in a DEC machine. > > To forestall any "warnings", you will probably find that these > drives do not have the best longevity. Many of them have lots > of hours accumulated already. They probably won't stand up to > heavy use. The bearings seem to go in the ones that I've had > fail. I don't think I've ever had a head crash. > > -ethan -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn onbetrouwbaar quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Wie mij te na komt zal het weten. '97 TL1000S | From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Apr 10 15:06:01 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: DEC 7000 available in exchange for help with big stuff from Boston References: <3E94F943.9080002@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3E956CAF.C01349FE@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3E95CE3D.60402@aurora.regenstrief.org> David Woyciesjes wrote: > Hmmm... where are you located, and what kind of truck > would be needed? I am in Indianapolis. A 15 ft truck would be enough, because it's at the most 18 ft rack space which divides nicely in 9 ft on either side. To load and unload, a lift gate is convenient. The VAXen's UNIBUS cabinets are already detached, so -- I believe -- one main cab goes sideways on the lift-gate. Lift-gate isn't absolutely necessary for I would assume that the place in Boston has a proper loading dock and we can get help from a wrecker (flatbed) at my place to unload. It's a bit scary, but it works. If I only had the time, I could do it with just one more person helping to. Loading in Boston will be fine, since the guy who has this now will be able to help somehow (and I'm sure they have a convenient loading dock so you just push the thing in.) For the DEC 7000 in return, the same kind of truck would suffice :-). If the wether is nice, a certain size open hanger could actually be enough if all is strapped on well. thanks for the consideration. BTW: if the DEC 7000 is not incentive alone, I also have another VAX 6420 to give away with it. regards, -Gunther David Woyciesjes wrote: > Gunther Schadow wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>I set a reward of a nice DEC 7000 with 4 CPUs (AXP) and 1.5 GB RAM >>and SCSI for the one who would come with a truck and get it and --- >>here is the catch --- bring me my VAX 11/785 (plus more) gear from >>Boston. I was going to sell the 7000 on ebay to make money to >>afford the move, but now I figure that a trade in this way would >>be the more conservative thing to do. >> >>Anybody interested? From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Apr 10 15:37:01 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: <20030410174328.GA28798@subatomix.com> Message-ID: on 4/10/03 12:43 PM, Jeffrey Sharp at jss@subatomix.com wrote: > On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, Owen Robertson wrote: >> Whoa. I have a TRS-80 Model 4 and more software than the one on eBay comes >> with. And mine's a NGA, white screen, 128K version, too, with a 15MB Tandy >> hard disk unit and everything. I spent maybe $100-$150 accumulating my >> system. > > You remember that M4 we picked up downtown in Ft. Worth for ~$10? That's > the most I've ever paid for a TRS-80. Yeah, I remember. I think those were from a local school district. A friend of mine's mother used to work at the local elementary school, and she had Model IIIs in her classroom with a Network 3 controller. A few years later the school gave her "new" computers that were supposed to be much more powerful. They were PCjrs. Frankly, I would have stuck with the Model IIIs. I've never been back to that place. Maybe we should go back sometime and see if they have anything. -- Owen Robertson From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 10 16:28:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <200304090159.SAA28951@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Apr 8, 3 06:59:39 pm Message-ID: [...] > >Kenbak 1 > >Scelbi 8h > >Mark-8 > >IBM 5100 > >Apple 1 > >Altair 8800 > >IMSAI 8080 > > Hi > Missed the Poly88. If the IBM 5100 is classed as an 'early personal computer', why isn't the HP9830 also included? The 9830 came out in 1973 (I think, maybe 1974). It had a cut-down BASIC in ROM (no string variables, for one thing, but it _is_ BASIC) which could be extended by plug-in ROM modules (Matix Operations, String Variables, Extended I/O, Plotter, Terminal Emulator, etc all exist). It could take up to 16K bytes of RAM, had a full-size QWERTY keybard and a 1-line 32 character display. Oh, and 4 I/O slots. Is the only reason this is not classed as an 'early personal computer' the fact that it says '9830 Calculator' on the nameplate? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 10 17:46:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at Apr 10, 3 05:42:43 pm Message-ID: > On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > If the IBM 5100 is classed as an 'early personal computer', why isn't > > the HP9830 also included? The 9830 came out in 1973 (I think, maybe > > 1974). It had a cut-down BASIC in ROM (no string variables, for one > > thing, but it _is_ BASIC) which could be extended by plug-in ROM modules > > (Matix Operations, String Variables, Extended I/O, Plotter, Terminal > > Emulator, etc all exist). It could take up to 16K bytes of RAM, had a > > full-size QWERTY keybard and a 1-line 32 character display. Oh, and 4 > > I/O slots. > > > > Is the only reason this is not classed as an 'early personal computer' > > the fact that it says '9830 Calculator' on the nameplate? > > Was it aimed or marketed at the general computing market? Could it be > easily used as a general-purpose computer? It _is_ a general-purpose computer. Turn it on, you get a prompt. Start typing in BASIC program lines. Type RUN (or press the RUN key) to execute your program. The only calculator feature is that you cna type in an expression and press EXECUTE (rather than END LINE) to evaluate it. There's also a built-in digital cassette drive for saving programs and data. Up to 10 more such drives can be added externally. There's also an option that I've never seen that allows up to 4 9830s to share a rack of demountable hard disks (I think RK05-like packs). If you insist that a 'computer' must be able to process strings as well as numbers then you'd have to add the String Variable ROM. This is an option, but it's not particularly rare. If you insist that a 'computer' must have I/O facilities, well, the 9830 has a built-in interface for the 9866 printer. This is a 7 bit (!) parallel port, a bit like Centronics. There are also 4 slots for HP interfaces. There are built-in software drivers for a printer interface and also for a special HP card reader or paper tape reader that simulates a keyboard. For other I/O operations you need the Extended I/O ROM. There were 8 bit parallel, BCD, RS232 and HPIB interfaces at least. These ROMs come in 2 versions. Either as a PCB that fits inside the machine (there are 3 such slots) which had to be installed by HP engineers [1], or as a user-installable cartridge that fits into one of 5 slots in a little cage behind a door on the left side of the machine. Most ROMs came in both versions, some came as a cartridge only. [1] No idea why. The procedure for installing such a ROM is : Remove top cover. Remove 1 more screw and the PCB hold-down clamps. Put the ROM PCB in the slot, matching up the handle colours with the guides (I don't think it will fit backwards anyway). Put the machine back together. -tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Apr 10 19:05:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: New HP find Message-ID: <026b01c2ffbd$c318f610$ad0cdd40@oemcomputer> Today I got HP 41C the following items; ac adapter, 5- extra battery packs model 82120A, Brown carrying case, HP Card Reader model 82104A, a model 82143A printer with an ac adapter for it. Got it all for only $7. Also got Heathkit VectorScope model 10-101 for $12. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 10 19:06:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > If the IBM 5100 is classed as an 'early personal computer', why isn't the > HP9830 also included? The 9830 came out in 1973 (I think, maybe 1974). It > had a cut-down BASIC in ROM (no string variables, for one thing, but it > _is_ BASIC) which could be extended by plug-in ROM modules (Matix > Operations, String Variables, Extended I/O, Plotter, Terminal Emulator, > etc all exist). It could take up to 16K bytes of RAM, had a full-size > QWERTY keybard and a 1-line 32 character display. Oh, and 4 I/O slots. > > Is the only reason this is not classed as an 'early personal computer' > the fact that it says '9830 Calculator' on the nameplate? It probably has more to do with the fact that it is not heralded nearly as much as the other machines mentioned. When people first start collecting they typically go after the more common names: Altair, IMSAI, etc. Once they mature as collectors, they start to discover that there are a large number of other machines from the same era. I think the list posted is representative of a not so mature collector. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From CCTalk at catcorner.org Thu Apr 10 19:40:00 2003 From: CCTalk at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: Tandy 6000 (old xenix machine) needs rescuing... Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B864@308server.308dole.com> Right now it is in Malvern AR. Any takers, it will need to be picked up by 4/15/2003. bunch of other tandy and PeeCee equipment also. Kelly From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Apr 10 20:08:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c2ffc6$86594500$947ba8c0@piii933> > I think the list posted is representative of a not so mature collector. I don't know if maturity has anything to do with it. I think the other names mentioned are just more recognizable (or heralded, as you said). Why? Because the machines mentioned had more of an impact on the industry or they were more advertised or more common or all of the above. People collect what they are excited about and that usually doesn't include more obscure machines. I have hundreds of computer magazines from the seventies and eighties. I rarely see an ad for HP 9830 but I see ads for IMSAI, Altair and other mentioned machines a ton. It's the recognition factor. Besides, the IMSAI starred in a movie! :) Speaking of HPs, though, I just came across a small collection of ROM drawers (82936A) and two RAM modules (82903A - 16k and 82907A - 32k) at Weird Stuff. The ROM drawers all have at least one ROM in them and several have multiples. Most have the "Advanced Prgm." ROM but there are copies of "Mass Storage", "I/O", "Matrix 1 and 2" and "Plotter Printer." It might be time to pull out the 85 to play. Erik From dan at ekoan.com Thu Apr 10 20:56:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <000001c2ffc6$86594500$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: On Thursday, April 10, 2003, at 09:06 PM, Erik S. Klein wrote: > People collect what they are excited about and that usually doesn't > include more obscure machines. I'd like to find an HP 9831. I wrote a fair amount of software for it back in 1981 or so, but haven't seen one since. I know Tony has one, but he's across the pond (Atlantic Ocean) and wouldn't part with it in any case. Is that obscure enough? > I have hundreds of computer magazines from the seventies and eighties. > I rarely see an ad for HP 9830 but I see ads for IMSAI, Altair and > other > mentioned machines a ton. For the terminally curious, I have a scan of an ad for the 9830 here: http://www.decodesystems.com/hp9830-ad.html This may be a good time to ask again if anyone has a copy of the Service Manual for the HP 9830. If so, please contact me off-list. Cheers, Dan From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 10 22:34:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <000001c2ffc6$86594500$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > > I think the list posted is representative of a not so mature > collector. > > I don't know if maturity has anything to do with it. I think the other > names mentioned are just more recognizable (or heralded, as you said). > Why? Because the machines mentioned had more of an impact on the > industry or they were more advertised or more common or all of the > above. First, when I say "maturity" I mean in the sense of becoming more involved as a computer collector and learning more about the history. I know when I first started to collect in earnest I wanted nothing more than an IMSAI 8080. I now realize there are far more interesting machines from the same era. The machines mentioned did indeed have a significant impact on the future of the industry, but it neglects many more machines that were equally (if not more) significant. > People collect what they are excited about and that usually doesn't > include more obscure machines. Yes, but I tend to see it more as the difference between fad collecting and collecting based on learned knowledge of the history. > I have hundreds of computer magazines from the seventies and eighties. > I rarely see an ad for HP 9830 but I see ads for IMSAI, Altair and other > mentioned machines a ton. You're not reading the right journals. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Apr 10 23:16:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: References: <000001c2ffc6$86594500$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <20030411044315.GC64756@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Thu, Apr 10, 2003 at 08:30:32PM -0700: > First, when I say "maturity" I mean in the sense of becoming more involved > as a computer collector and learning more about the history. I know when > I first started to collect in earnest I wanted nothing more than an IMSAI > 8080. I now realize there are far more interesting machines from the same > era. While I'm probably not a computer "collector," in the sense that some use to describe a collector, even though I do collect computers, the historical significance of some systems has been of much interest to me for many years. For example, over a decade ago, I began collecting much information about PERQ graphics workstations... I've many looseleaf binders (over a dozen, IIRC) filled with printed e-mail discissions about them with people who created, used and manufatured them. That, I didn't really view as an aspect of collecting, however; it was mostly an excercise aimed at satisfying my own curiosity, but with hacking and preservation in mind. Whether the notebooks will ever mean anything to anyone else, or find their way to the recyclers some day when I'm gone, time will tell. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Apr 11 00:58:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:55 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c2ffee$ff431180$e143cd18@D73KSM11> > > >Kenbak 1 > > >Scelbi 8h > > >Mark-8 > > >IBM 5100 > > >Apple 1 > > >Altair 8800 > > >IMSAI 8080 > > > > Hi > > Missed the Poly88. > > If the IBM 5100 is classed as an 'early personal computer', > why isn't the > HP9830 also included? Why stop there; why not the HP 9100A? As some may recall, Wired declared it the "first" personal computer in that, inter alia, it was the supposedly the first device that was marketed using the term "personal computer" -- way back in 1968. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.12/mustread.html?pg=11 -W From brian at quarterbyte.com Fri Apr 11 02:21:00 2003 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Documation M1000 card reader on ebay Message-ID: <000701c2fffa$787ab610$4072c13f@Evelyn> Hi folks -- there's a Documation M1000L card reader up for auction on eBay -- Item # 3603141802, title "Documation 1000 Voting Ballot Card Reader." Currently no bids with 9 hours left, $99. I don't know what type of interface the L model has but it's 1000 cards/minute. I have an M200 and an M600 already so if you're looking for a card reader, please buy this and save me from being tempted to get it myself. Brian PS - am writing this from home with Outlook Express, which appears to append HTML even when asked not to, so I apologize in advance for that. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Apr 11 07:31:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: DEC 7000 available in exchange for help with big stuff from Boston References: <3E94F943.9080002@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3E956CAF.C01349FE@comcast.net> <3E95CE3D.60402@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3E96B5F2.F8EA401F@comcast.net> Gunther Schadow wrote: > > David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Hmmm... where are you located, and what kind of truck > > would be needed? > > I am in Indianapolis. A 15 ft truck would be enough, because it's > at the most 18 ft rack space which divides nicely in 9 ft on either > side. To load and unload, a lift gate is convenient. The VAXen's UNIBUS > cabinets are already detached, so -- I believe -- That's what I thought... COnsidering that, and the fact that I just got a job offer (woo hoo! after 6months, it's about damn time!) I won't be able to help out on this deal. Sorry... Yep, I'm going back to Yale for work. This time I'll be in the Dermatology department, and I'll be getting about the same salary as when I was laid off. Man, what a relief... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Apr 11 07:33:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: FS/FT: VaxStation 3100 m38; C-128; Atari 800 References: <3E957FB9.7EB78DAD@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3E96B63E.6339239@comcast.net> *** One thing I did foret to add... I said below, that the best offer gets the stuff. I'll give people about 2 weeks.*** David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Well, in the process of going through my computer room, and sorting > stuff out to keep, and get rid of; I've decided to get rid of 3 of my > classics. They've sat around for too long, going unused. So... > > --- VaxStation 3100 m38 > - 32MB RAM (maximum!) > - 600 MB HDD in matching Storage Expansion Unit > - mono video output > - VR262 monitor (Don't think it works, might be a minor repair) > it does drive a Digital VRT-17 fine on the green channel fine, though. > - Installing & Using the VR262 manual > - cables & power cords - including a MMJ cable & MMJ-DB25 adapter > - 2 keyboards (IIRC LK201) - I'll make sure they work first... > - Owner's binder - Customer Hardware Info/Planning & Prep/Owner's > Manual/Network Guide > - NetBSD 1.5 is currently installed > > --- C-128 & Atari 800 > - both have 5 1/4 floppy drives, power cables, joystick > - Bunch of games and apps > > Best offer. Pick up in New Haven CT preferred (especially for the Vax). > The C-128 and Atari should'nt be that bad to ship, though. > Cash, money order, PayPal. For trade, I'm looking for SCSI & IDE HDDs > over 4GB, true-parity memory, PC100/133 DIMMs, P-III 800 CPU, 19" > monitor... > > -- -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From alex at trdlnk.com Fri Apr 11 09:43:00 2003 From: alex at trdlnk.com (Alex Stade) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: docs for ods 1.0/sunos 4.1.4 Message-ID: <3E96D3F5.1090900@trdlnk.com> Hi, I've installed ODS 1.0 on a SunOS 4.1.4 box, but I can't seem to find any documentation on how to use it. Did the google thing, but couldn't find much. Any ideas? Thanks. -Alex From hansp at aconit.org Fri Apr 11 10:42:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Looking for : schematics and technical manual for LA30 or DECwriter I Message-ID: <3E96E20D.4080302@aconit.org> Subject line says it all, we have an LA30 that we would like to get working. It operates in local mode but we cannot get it to talk current loop to our PDP-9. Any help would be appreciated. -- hbp From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Fri Apr 11 11:17:00 2003 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Looking for : schematics and technical manual for LA30 or DECwriter I References: <3E96E20D.4080302@aconit.org> Message-ID: <00fd01c30045$51cc1ae0$05247452@newhare> LA-30 maintenance manual will be scanned in the next week or so and sent to Al K for inclusion in his exellent site... Bruce Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. bkr@WildHareComputers.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans B Pufal" To: Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 9:41 AM Subject: Looking for : schematics and technical manual for LA30 or DECwriter I > Subject line says it all, we have an LA30 that we would like to get > working. It operates in local mode but we cannot get it to talk current > loop to our PDP-9. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > -- hbp From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Apr 11 12:57:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Looking for : schematics and technical manual for LA30 or DECwriter I References: <3E96E20D.4080302@aconit.org> <00fd01c30045$51cc1ae0$05247452@newhare> Message-ID: <3E970146.47C7223@compsys.to> >Bruce Ray wrote: > LA-30 maintenance manual will be scanned in the next week or so and sent to > Al K for inclusion in his exellent site... > Bruce > Bruce Ray > Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. > bkr@WildHareComputers.com > > Subject line says it all, we have an LA30 that we would like to get > > working. It operates in local mode but we cannot get it to talk current > > loop to our PDP-9. > >> Any help would be appreciated. > > -- hbp Jerome Fine replies: Can you please provide the complete address for Al K's site, PLEASE! Also, is there a separate e-mail address for Al K? I may have a manual that he would like to include. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From hansp at aconit.org Fri Apr 11 13:15:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Looking for : schematics and technical manual for LA30 or DECwriter I In-Reply-To: <3E970146.47C7223@compsys.to> References: <3E96E20D.4080302@aconit.org> <00fd01c30045$51cc1ae0$05247452@newhare> <3E970146.47C7223@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3E9705DC.4030707@aconit.org> Jerome H. Fine wrote: >>Bruce Ray wrote: >>LA-30 maintenance manual will be scanned in the next week or so and sent to >>Al K for inclusion in his exellent site... >>Bruce >>Bruce Ray >>Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. >>bkr@WildHareComputers.com Thanks Bruce, I'll look out for it. > Jerome Fine replies: > Can you please provide the complete address for Al K's site, > PLEASE! www.spies.com/~aek/pdf -- hbp From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 11 13:23:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: New HP find In-Reply-To: <026b01c2ffbd$c318f610$ad0cdd40@oemcomputer> from "Keys" at Apr 10, 3 07:03:18 pm Message-ID: > Today I got HP 41C the following items; ac adapter, 5- extra battery packs > model 82120A, Brown carrying case, HP Card Reader model 82104A, a model > 82143A printer with an ac adapter for it. Got it all for only $7. You do realise that this is a _very_ nice calculator (I am still using a lot of 41 stuff here, CVs (a C with 5 times as much user memory), CXs (a CV with built-in extended functions ROM, extended memory, real time clock, and a bit more), and various plug-in modules. The problem with the C is the limited memory. You really want to add a Quad Memory Module to bring it up to the CV specification. Apart from that, the card reader and printer mean you have a nice system. Be warned the 41 series are adictive. You start playing with them. Then you want an HPIL module and all the peripherals (digital cassette drive, disk drive (!), Thinkhet printer, Plotter, DMM, etc). Then you start doing things HP didn't intend, like synthetic programming (which is creating 'illegal' instructions in user programs). When you lose interest in that, you want an MLDL box (a special RAM unit which emulates a ROM module) so that you can program the darn thing in machine code. This happened to me... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 11 13:23:11 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <000d01c2ffee$ff431180$e143cd18@D73KSM11> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Apr 10, 3 10:55:41 pm Message-ID: > > If the IBM 5100 is classed as an 'early personal computer', > > why isn't the > > HP9830 also included? > > Why stop there; why not the HP 9100A? As some may recall, Wired The 9100 _is_ user-programmable, it does do calculations. It's also a very nice machine. However, a working definition that I use is that a 'calculator' is keystroke-programmable -- there's a key marked 'SIN' say that calculates the sine of an angle. If you want to use that in a program, you press the SIN key, you don't type S,I,N. A computer has an alphanumeric keyboard, and you do type out function names, etc, like that. It's an arbitrary definition, sure. And to be honest I don't normally care about it -- I collect just about anything that computes/calculates. Whether it's called a computer or not. But I was a bit worried that if I'd suggested the 9100, then people would have had good reasons why it wasn't a computer. There are no such reasons (AFAIK) for the 9830. The other point is that the 9830 is fairly similar (to the user) to the IBM5100. It's about the same size (albeit with only a 1-line display), it runs a high-level language from internal ROM, it has built-in mass storage, etc. And yet the 5100 is a bit later than the 9830. Why the former gets all the glory is beyond me... -tony From cb at mythtech.net Fri Apr 11 13:29:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Tandon LT/386 Message-ID: I have a Tandon LT/386 laptop here. I really don't think I want it. I've had it for a while, I was given it a number of years ago. I was going to use it to connect to my phone system as a programming station, but I never could get it to connect properly (the phone system is a little picky about what computers it lets connect). And now I have an old 486 laptop serving that duty anyway. According to the label on the back, it is a 16 MHz system, with a 40 MB HDD. There is also a 3.5 HD FDD, a serial port, parallel port, 2 PS/2 ports, VGA, and some kind of expansion slot. Memory test at boot only shows 1024 K of RAM (could be a config issue however, first boot said the config was bad and needed to be reset) I don't know if the battery holds a charge (I seem to recall when it was given to me, I was told it has a brand new battery, but I got it so long ago, I'm not positive, nor can I say if the battery is still any good). I have it plugged in right now to see if it will charge. The HDD is rather loud, and the screen (black and white) is sucky... really sucky. But the thing boots to the HDD (DOS 6.22 is on it right now, along with a few other odds and ends... all internal software, nothing really confidential, so I doubt I will blank it). I might also have the carrying case, and the manual around here somewhere (although if I have the case, I may keep it as I could use an extra laptop bag). If anyone wants the thing, its up for grabs (just cover shipping). Since I'm trying to scrounge up as many pennies as possible (trying to buy a house), if for some bizzare reason I get more than one person that wants it... it will go to whoever gives me the best offer for it (best offer can be trading of stuff... I like Apple/Mac stuff... but I really need money more than I need additional toys). -chris From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Fri Apr 11 13:31:00 2003 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (swtpc6800@attbi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? Message-ID: <200304111830.h3BIUiu45427@huey.classiccmp.org> I think of a personal computer as one that was owned by an individual for use in a home. The same computer could also be used in a commercial setting but these computers were often in homes. In 1979 I had about six HP 9825 calculators in my basement. These “calculators” were great computers but they cost many time more than my SWTPC 6800 system did. (I was setting up a contract project so these 9825 were just rented. There was over $100,000 worth of rented equipment in the house.) Even though I had a HP 9825 in my home I don’t think of it as a “personal computer”. ------------------------------- Michael Holley swtpc6800@attbi.com www.swtpc.com/mholley ------------------------------- From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Apr 11 14:16:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030411141609.078b4580@mail.ubanproductions.com> Does anyone know where 132 column (14x11) white (blank) fanfold paper is still available? Bowater used to make it years ago, but has since sold that business off... --tnx --tom From cb at mythtech.net Fri Apr 11 14:45:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper Message-ID: >Does anyone know where 132 column (14x11) white (blank) fanfold >paper is still available? Bowater used to make it years ago, but >has since sold that business off... We were buying it from Staples and Office Depot up until recently. As of when we stopped buying it, they were still carrying it (we just upgraded our system and moved to printing to a laser printer... MUCH cheaper). I am pretty sure Staples still sells it. Its kind of pricey. IIRC, it was about $50 or $60 for a box. -chris From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 11 14:48:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > The other point is that the 9830 is fairly similar (to the user) to the > IBM5100. It's about the same size (albeit with only a 1-line display), it > runs a high-level language from internal ROM, it has built-in mass > storage, etc. And yet the 5100 is a bit later than the 9830. Why the > former gets all the glory is beyond me... A multi-line display on a CRT helps a lot ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Apr 11 14:49:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Apr 11, 03 03:43:16 pm Message-ID: <200304111939.PAA09050@wordstock.com> And thusly chris spake: > > We were buying it from Staples and Office Depot up until recently. As of > when we stopped buying it, they were still carrying it (we just upgraded > our system and moved to printing to a laser printer... MUCH cheaper). > But for printing program listings - nothing beats fanfold paper! Cheers, Bryan From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Apr 11 15:07:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > A computer has an alphanumeric keyboard, and you do type out function > names, etc, like that. I'm SURE that you didn't mean to exclude a row of 8 toggle switches, nor a hex keypad (ala Kim-1) From jmh at SLAC.Stanford.EDU Fri Apr 11 15:07:23 2003 From: jmh at SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Hodgers, James) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: more goodies? Message-ID: <26E3EC48949D134C94A1574B2C89466124F608@exchange2.slac.stanford.edu> I have recently come across original -- disks only -- (5 1/4") of Wordstar Pro 4.0, Turbo Pascal, Microsoft Word 5.0 and in 3 1/2" of Microsoft Presentation Manager. Also manual and 5 1/4 disk for SpinRite. Are these of interest or should I just toss them? Jim jmh@slac.stanford.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Apr 11 15:49:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030411141609.078b4580@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, Tom Uban wrote: > Does anyone know where 132 column (14x11) white (blank) fanfold > paper is still available? Bowater used to make it years ago, but > has since sold that business off... A petty correction: It's 14 7/8, NOT 14. (15 7/8 including the edges). An incompetent purchasing agent at out college got it confused with "Legal" paper and ordered enormous quantities of 8.5 x 14 7/8 paper! (instead of 11 x 14 7/8) Be sure to consider whether you want white, greebar, or blue bar. And, there used to be paper available that was VERY handy for printers that were inconvenient to change paper on, that was 14 7/8, but had tear-offs not only for the pin feed edges, but also a perf part way over to also be able to tear it into 8.5 x 11. From jss at subatomix.com Fri Apr 11 16:02:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Documation M1000 card reader on ebay In-Reply-To: <000701c2fffa$787ab610$4072c13f@Evelyn> References: <000701c2fffa$787ab610$4072c13f@Evelyn> Message-ID: <20030411210314.GD2401@subatomix.com> On Friday, April 11, 2003, Brian Knittel wrote: > PS - am writing this from home with Outlook Express, which appears to > append HTML even when asked not to, so I apologize in advance for that. Posts to this list are filtered through a program called demime that strips mail down to plain text. Demime is capable of rendering HTML and RTF to plain text. You need not worry. -- Jeffrey Sharp From kenziem at sympatico.ca Fri Apr 11 16:22:01 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Mimic 8080 Message-ID: <20030411211952.NUKU6342.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Does anyone know anything about the mimic 8080? These are the only pictures I've found so far. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3411844327&rd=1 This site ( http://www.bink.org/Portfolio/MIMIC.htm ) give some details about what they did. "when electronics products were specifically designed for their intended functions, and features were typically hardwired, all the MIMICs shared the same underlying, programmable, microprocessor based, mutable system of boards, varied only in their configuration and firmware." But there are no pictures or specs From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 11 17:04:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <200304111830.h3BIUiu45427@huey.classiccmp.org> from "swtpc6800@attbi.com" at Apr 11, 3 06:29:09 pm Message-ID: > I think of a personal computer as one that was owned by an individual for use > in a home. The same computer could also be used in a commercial setting but > these computers were often in homes. OK... Is the IBM 5100 a 'personal computer' by your definition? I would guess not. My comment is really that the HP 9830 and IBM 5100 are similar in many ways. If one is a 'personal computer' then so is the other. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 11 17:04:35 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Apr 11, 3 12:44:34 pm Message-ID: > On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > The other point is that the 9830 is fairly similar (to the user) to the > > IBM5100. It's about the same size (albeit with only a 1-line display), it > > runs a high-level language from internal ROM, it has built-in mass > > storage, etc. And yet the 5100 is a bit later than the 9830. Why the > > former gets all the glory is beyond me... > > A multi-line display on a CRT helps a lot ;) Sure, as does a graphical display, and many other features that came out later. Point is, the HP9830 _was_ earlier than the IBM5100, and presumably HP couldn't justify providing a CRT display on it (they certainly could have designed one -- they had CRT displays on larger computers at the time). If you want to consider _early personal computers_ then IMHO you have to consider the HP9830... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 11 17:04:44 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 11, 3 01:04:31 pm Message-ID: > On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > A computer has an alphanumeric keyboard, and you do type out function > > names, etc, like that. > > I'm SURE that you didn't mean to exclude a row of 8 toggle switches, nor a > hex keypad (ala Kim-1) No, of coruse I didn't :-). Very bad wording on my part. I think what I meant to say was a 'calculator' has a key-per-function, a computer generally doesn't. -tony From spedraja at ono.com Fri Apr 11 17:11:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: HP2118 References: <20030411211952.NUKU6342.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <009e01c30076$f2674160$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> Hi everybody ! Maybe somebody could have some interest in this two auctions: http://cgi.es.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411899424&category=12 47 http://cgi.es.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=34118994 43 Good luck to the winner. This is one of the computers that I should like to have in my collection one day (somebody has one of this left in Europe ?) Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 11 17:21:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: more goodies? In-Reply-To: <26E3EC48949D134C94A1574B2C89466124F608@exchange2.slac.stan ford.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030411162906.0f9fd024@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Spinrite is ALWAYS usefull to have around if you do any work with the older PCs. When scrounging I always take a look at the back of PCs for any unusual PC cards. Frequently I can recover the drivers from the hard drive (if it hasn't been removed) but the drives are frequently is sad shape and Spinrite is great for recovering data. Joe At 01:04 PM 4/11/03 -0700, you wrote: >I have recently come across original -- disks only -- (5 1/4") of Wordstar Pro 4.0, Turbo Pascal, Microsoft Word 5.0 and in 3 1/2" of Microsoft >Presentation Manager. Also manual and 5 1/4 disk for SpinRite. Are these of >interest or should I just toss them? > >Jim > >jmh@slac.stanford.edu From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 11 17:21:28 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: FA HP disk drive and computer manuals (9826, 9836, 9122 more) Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030411181849.3be746d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've just finished putting some HP computer and disk drive manuals on E-bay. I previously listed some HP software manuals and I'll be adding more as time permits. . Also listed a NEW unassembled Heathkit kit on there if anyone is intersted. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 11 17:30:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: HP2118 In-Reply-To: <009e01c30076$f2674160$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> References: <20030411211952.NUKU6342.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030411182516.0fafa2ec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The seller is Craig and he's a frequent lurker on the list. He often has interesting HP stuff. Joe At 12:08 AM 4/12/03 +0200, you wrote: >Hi everybody ! > >Maybe somebody could have some interest in this two auctions: > >http://cgi.es.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411899424&category=12 >47 >http://cgi.es.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=34118994 >43 > >Good luck to the winner. This is one of the computers that I should like to >have in >my collection one day (somebody has one of this left in Europe ?) > >Thanks and Greetings >Best Regards >Sergio From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Apr 11 17:42:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030410110218.3dbfe354@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <002501c2ff6c$7d2ac120$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <3E698FCB.30827.462D463@localhost> On 10 Apr 2003, , Joe wrote: > >I approach the occasion... Someone know about one Tandy > >system with Xenix installed ? > > Sounds like a Tandy 6000. I have one but Mike got all my > manuals :-/ The 6000 has both a 68000 and a Z-80 CPU and > runs XENIX or CPM. Mine is a 6000HD and has an internal > hard drive and an 8" floppy drive. They were multi-user > systems and definitely a notch above the usual TRS stuff. > > Joe > > The TRS model II could also run Xenix with a 68000 card. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Apr 11 17:42:15 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Madness In-Reply-To: References: <002501c2ff6c$7d2ac120$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <3E698FCB.29166.462D494@localhost> On 10 Apr 2003, , Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, SPC wrote: > > > I approach the occasion... Someone know about one Tandy > > system with Xenix installed ? I saw some of these in eBay > > months ago and I should like to get one some day. > > I have a Tandy 6000 (or it might be a Model 12 or something) > that runs Xenix (boots from floppy but I believe it may also > be installed to a hard drive). > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival My model II was a donation that came with Xenix on 8" floppy as well as 3 of the huge TRS 5 meg HDs. Never did get the cabling for the drives so I still don't know what's on there. On my ever-expanding to-do list. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Apr 11 17:42:23 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: <200304090159.SAA28951@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E698FCB.27271.462D4CE@localhost> On 8 Apr 2003, , Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: "The Design Fort DTP" > > > >Hi all, > > > >One thing I was always interested in - and the visitors in > >my Computer Museum often want to know - is how many of the > >very first personal computers are still in existence. By > >first PCs I mean the following machines: Kenbak 1 Scelbi 8h > >Mark-8 IBM 5100 Apple 1 Altair 8800 IMSAI 8080 > > Hi > Missed the Poly88. > Dwight > And also the MICOM 2000. The first Canadian-produced computer and it came fully assembled.(!) In 1975, by Stephen Dorsey who had earlier developed the worlds first programmable word processor under the AES label in 1972. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Apr 11 17:42:32 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Would like to introduce me In-Reply-To: References: <1049805868.2246.16.camel@server.smithy.com> Message-ID: <3E698FCB.11832.462D405@localhost> Glad to see another Canuck on the list. Actually there's a considerable number of us on the list as well as some lurkers. I've been acquiring old computers for some years and was part of a failed endeavor to start a museum in Toronto. A couple of years ago I retired to central Manitoba with my considerable collection. I also have an H/Z 89 needing repair and an H17 but unfortunately no software or docs. From the sticker on the side I suspect it was used by the successful canadian Mt. Everest climb in 1982. Found it outside a church in central T.O. When I do get to it on my to-do list I might call on you, as well as the list's emminent Tony Duell of course. Possibly one day there might be a repository of stuff from the considerable contributions made by canadians to computer history. You might take a look at Poulsson's Timeline of Computer History which is on the net and a book I've yet to find, "Knights of the New Technology - The Inside Story of Canada's Computer Elite, by David Thomas, 1983. Lawrence On 8 Apr 2003, , The Design Fort DTP wrote: > Hi all, > > I would like to introduce myself. My name is Herbert and I'm > running the "First Computer Museum of Nova Scotia Society" > in Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia, Canada. I hope to connect > with other collectors and people interested in vintage > computers here on that fine list. My special interest lies > in vintage computers from the 70s and early 80s. My > collection is constantly growing. I have a vast collection > of manuals, books, software and other vintage computer > related stuff. I recently got a great donation of a mint > Heathkit H89 system, with all the manuals, disks etc. If > somebody needs scans from those manuals etc. let me know and > I can see what I can do. I also have a complete set of H8 > manuals (H17 discdrive included). > > Of course I'm looking for stuff, too. A copy of a Altair > 8800 manual, a Imsai 8080 manual and a Commodore PET (with > the chicklet keys) manual for example. > > Greetings to you all > Herbert lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Apr 11 18:04:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: more goodies? In-Reply-To: <26E3EC48949D134C94A1574B2C89466124F608@exchange2.slac.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <3E699514.23268.4777B5B@localhost> Well I for one, am definitely interested in the SpinRite if it's up for grabs. Lawrence On 11 Apr 2003, , Hodgers, James wrote: > I have recently come across original -- disks only -- (5 > 1/4") of Wordstar Pro 4.0, Turbo Pascal, Microsoft Word 5.0 > and in 3 1/2" of Microsoft Presentation Manager. Also manual > and 5 1/4 disk for SpinRite. Are these of interest or should > I just toss them? > > Jim > > jmh@slac.stanford.edu lgwalker@ mts.net From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Apr 11 18:33:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Looking for : schematics and technical manual for LA30 or DECwriter I References: <3E96E20D.4080302@aconit.org> <00fd01c30045$51cc1ae0$05247452@newhare> <3E970146.47C7223@compsys.to> <3E9705DC.4030707@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3E97501A.269E8A38@compsys.to> >Hans B Pufal wrote: > >>Bruce Ray wrote: > >>LA-30 maintenance manual will be scanned in the next week or so and sent to > >>Al K for inclusion in his exellent site... > >>Bruce Ray > >>Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. > >>bkr@WildHareComputers.com > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Can you please provide the complete address for Al K's site, > > PLEASE! > www.spies.com/~aek/pdf > -- hbp Jerome Fine replies: I presume that for us internet dummies, you mean: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf Thank you! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From unr00ster at worldnet.att.net Fri Apr 11 18:58:00 2003 From: unr00ster at worldnet.att.net (UnRooster) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: more goodies? In-Reply-To: <26E3EC48949D134C94A1574B2C89466124F608@exchange2.slac.stanford.edu> Message-ID: Keep them!! I know that the Microsoft and Spinrite are still under copyright. www.microsoft.com http://grc.com -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Hodgers, James Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 1:05 PM To: 'cctech@classiccmp.org' Subject: more goodies? I have recently come across original -- disks only -- (5 1/4") of Wordstar Pro 4.0, Turbo Pascal, Microsoft Word 5.0 and in 3 1/2" of Microsoft Presentation Manager. Also manual and 5 1/4 disk for SpinRite. Are these of interest or should I just toss them? Jim jmh@slac.stanford.edu From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Apr 11 19:12:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: New HP find References: Message-ID: <02bb01c30087$cf7397b0$a70cdd40@oemcomputer> Thanks for the tips and information. I got 82169A HPIL/HPIB interface a while back with another calculator. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 12:46 PM Subject: Re: New HP find > > Today I got HP 41C the following items; ac adapter, 5- extra battery packs > > model 82120A, Brown carrying case, HP Card Reader model 82104A, a model > > 82143A printer with an ac adapter for it. Got it all for only $7. > > You do realise that this is a _very_ nice calculator (I am still using a > lot of 41 stuff here, CVs (a C with 5 times as much user memory), CXs (a > CV with built-in extended functions ROM, extended memory, real time > clock, and a bit more), and various plug-in modules. > > The problem with the C is the limited memory. You really want to add a > Quad Memory Module to bring it up to the CV specification. Apart from > that, the card reader and printer mean you have a nice system. > > Be warned the 41 series are adictive. You start playing with them. Then > you want an HPIL module and all the peripherals (digital cassette drive, > disk drive (!), Thinkhet printer, Plotter, DMM, etc). Then you start > doing things HP didn't intend, like synthetic programming (which is > creating 'illegal' instructions in user programs). When you lose interest > in that, you want an MLDL box (a special RAM unit which emulates a ROM > module) so that you can program the darn thing in machine code. This > happened to me... > > -tony From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 11 19:46:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > The other point is that the 9830 is fairly similar (to the user) to the > > > IBM5100. It's about the same size (albeit with only a 1-line display), it > > > runs a high-level language from internal ROM, it has built-in mass > > > storage, etc. And yet the 5100 is a bit later than the 9830. Why the > > > former gets all the glory is beyond me... > > > > A multi-line display on a CRT helps a lot ;) > > Sure, as does a graphical display, and many other features that came out > later. Point is, the HP9830 _was_ earlier than the IBM5100, and > presumably HP couldn't justify providing a CRT display on it (they > certainly could have designed one -- they had CRT displays on larger > computers at the time). > > If you want to consider _early personal computers_ then IMHO you have to > consider the HP9830... I was being somewhat facetious. I'll be the first to say that the 9830 is a computer. In fact there is no question in my mind and no need to even have to argue for this. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 11 21:17:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: New HP find In-Reply-To: <02bb01c30087$cf7397b0$a70cdd40@oemcomputer> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030411221519.0faf88aa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:09 PM 4/11/03 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks for the tips and information. I got 82169A HPIL/HPIB interface a >while back with another calculator. I just found another of those too. They're pretty dammed cool! With it you can use the (relatively) common HP-IB disk drives and other devices on your HP 41 or 71. Or you can run your IL stuff like a 3468 Multimeter from a HP-IB controller such as a 9825. LOTS of possiblilities! Joe From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Apr 11 21:27:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Help nomenclature??? Message-ID: IBM had a standard for text based user interfaces. Systems Architecure blah blah.. Many of the DOS6.2 programs exibit this user interface, like "Edit" and perhaps "Qbasic" What was that called?? Thanks. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 11 21:48:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: ICS Electronics IEEE 488 Speech Synthesizer ???? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030411224217.0f97f140@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found this recently. It's a model 4800 IEEE 488 (HP-IB) Speech Synthesizer made by ICS Electronics. Does anyone have ANY info on this? I searched ICS's site and ran Google and Altavista searchs but found nothing. Joe From jim at jkearney.com Fri Apr 11 21:50:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Help nomenclature??? References: Message-ID: <01bf01c3009d$df408980$1301090a@xpace.net> > IBM had a standard for text based user interfaces. Systems Architecure > blah blah.. Dredging from my memory, wasn't it CUA (Common User Access), part of SAA (System Application Architecture), and specifically CUI (Character User Interface)? From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Apr 11 22:19:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Help nomenclature??? In-Reply-To: <01bf01c3009d$df408980$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <348A5656-6C95-11D7-9A9C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Friday, April 11, 2003, at 07:47 PM, Jim Kearney wrote: >> IBM had a standard for text based user interfaces. Systems Architecure >> blah blah.. > > Dredging from my memory, wasn't it CUA (Common User Access), part of > SAA > (System Application Architecture), and specifically CUI (Character User > Interface)? > drats... that sounds very right, but I searched on CUA, "Common User Interface" and did not find anything, but I did not try Character user interface Thanks. From jim at jkearney.com Fri Apr 11 22:37:01 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Help nomenclature??? References: <348A5656-6C95-11D7-9A9C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <01e301c300a4$72924150$1301090a@xpace.net> > that sounds very right, but I searched on CUA, "Common User Interface" > and did not find > anything, but I did not try Character user interface Check this out: http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/sj/273/ibmsj2703E.pdf From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Apr 12 08:27:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Help nomenclature??? In-Reply-To: <01e301c300a4$72924150$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <36F37902-6CEA-11D7-8161-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Friday, April 11, 2003, at 08:34 PM, Jim Kearney wrote: >> that sounds very right, but I searched on CUA, "Common User Interface" >> and did not find >> anything, but I did not try Character user interface > > Check this out: > > http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/sj/273/ibmsj2703E.pdf > > OOH that's it. Looks like everything I need is there too. Thanks! From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Apr 12 09:46:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa XL on eBay Message-ID: <013201c30102$01cde920$f20bdd40@oemcomputer> Boy now the XL's are going for crazy prices. $750 plus $75 shipping and handling. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411411855 From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Apr 12 09:52:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Apple IIe for $700 Message-ID: <013801c30102$bec5c3e0$f20bdd40@oemcomputer> Another crazy price for an Apple IIe??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2168296821 From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Apr 12 11:42:01 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Apple IIe for $700 In-Reply-To: <013801c30102$bec5c3e0$f20bdd40@oemcomputer> References: <013801c30102$bec5c3e0$f20bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20030412163846.1960.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Keys writes: > Another crazy price for an Apple IIe??? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2168296821 I think the $700 was for the Woz signature, and it so happened to be on a IIe. Maybe I could copy that sig and put it on my IIe Platinum and increase the value twohundredfold. the winning bidder probably has several Corvettes too -- and all they are is a plastic Chevy. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From cbajpai at attbi.com Sat Apr 12 14:09:00 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:56 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa XL on eBay In-Reply-To: <013201c30102$01cde920$f20bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <000001c30126$8cd10740$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> And I thought the economy was in the toilet. Maybe all the money that normally flows into the stock market is going into collectables? TRS-80s are also fetching crazy prices. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Keys Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 10:44 AM To: cctech@classiccmp Subject: Apple Lisa XL on eBay Boy now the XL's are going for crazy prices. $750 plus $75 shipping and handling. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411411855 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 12 14:27:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa XL on eBay In-Reply-To: <000001c30126$8cd10740$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <013201c30102$01cde920$f20bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030412152501.4ccf388c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:05 PM 4/12/03 -0400, you wrote: >And I thought the economy was in the toilet. Only for the average citizen. The rich are richer than ever thanks to Bush and administration (or maybe I should say LACK of administration!) Joe Maybe all the money that >normally flows into the stock market is going into collectables? >TRS-80s are also fetching crazy prices. > >-Chandra > > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Keys >Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 10:44 AM >To: cctech@classiccmp >Subject: Apple Lisa XL on eBay > >Boy now the XL's are going for crazy prices. $750 plus $75 shipping and >handling. >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411411855 From marvin at rain.org Sat Apr 12 14:48:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa XL on eBay References: <013201c30102$01cde920$f20bdd40@oemcomputer> <3.0.6.16.20030412152501.4ccf388c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E986CF3.C79E4E78@rain.org> Joe wrote: > > At 03:05 PM 4/12/03 -0400, you wrote: > >And I thought the economy was in the toilet. > > Only for the average citizen. The rich are richer than ever thanks to Bush and administration (or maybe I should say LACK of administration!) Most people are *always* willing to believe that is it someone elses fault, and blame others for the current situation. I think the high prices for some of the items on ebay are primarily due to new people bidding. Look at the bidding history, and most likely you will find a couple of people battleing it out rather than the intelligent way of either bidding your maximum at the first bid, or sniping. From spedraja at ono.com Sat Apr 12 14:59:01 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa XL on eBay References: <000001c30126$8cd10740$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <001b01c3012d$b9ebcba0$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> > And I thought the economy was in the toilet. Maybe all the money that > normally flows into the stock market is going into collectables? > TRS-80s are also fetching crazy prices. Not so far of reality in Spain just now, Chandra. Interest Rates are more down here (in all Europe really) than ever in the past. You can get mortgages for %2,90 when sixteen years ago, when I began to work, it was in %15. In the other side, bank accounts paid over %12 in these far dates. Now you must pay for your account :-) The money searched the Stocks Market here during last six years, but last two were very bad for the investors. No alternatives in appeareance. What's happening with the money ? Three ways: underground economy; an absolutely ahead (and crazy) buying of all kind of residential homes, garages, and bussines places(that is being the cause of a growing of the prices in last six years in the %60 !); and investments in collectables. I know it because I get all the weeks a couple of economic newspapers and I saw the evolution of its recomendations in investments during last year. I have the impression that something so is happening in other places in Europe but not exactly like here. Oh, and here the computers are not exactly (with exception of the UK perhaps) a general matter of collecting. Thanks and greetings Best Regards Sergio From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 12 15:28:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: New HP find In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030411221519.0faf88aa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Apr 11, 3 10:15:19 pm Message-ID: > At 07:09 PM 4/11/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Thanks for the tips and information. I got 82169A HPIL/HPIB interface a > >while back with another calculator. > > > I just found another of those too. They're pretty dammed cool! With > it you can use the (relatively) common HP-IB disk drives and other > devices on your HP 41 or 71. Or you can run your IL stuff like a 3468 Can you? I don't doubt the hardware side will work, but AFAIK the standard firmware for the HPIL module on the HP41 or HP71 will _not_ recognise an HPIB disk drive on the other side of an 82169. Or at least I've never met anyone who has got it to work. It _does_ work on the Portable+, provided the 82169 is a sufficiently late one (I can check the necessary serial number). > Multimeter from a HP-IB controller such as a 9825. LOTS of possiblilities! Oh, sure the 82169 is a useful unit (I think I have 3 of them now), but not for using HPIB drives on HP41s. -tony From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Apr 12 15:52:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Fw: [rescue] [dlj9@earthlink.net: PDP11-34] Message-ID: <04a001c30135$5e9826b0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 2:23 PM Subject: [rescue] [dlj9@earthlink.net: PDP11-34] > Please contact Mr. Jones directly. Surely someone can save this.. > > Can someone also forward to classiccmp? > > Bill > > ----- Forwarded message from Douglas L Jones ----- > > Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:11:25 -0700 > To: mrbill > From: Douglas L Jones > Subject: PDP11-34 > > DEC PDP11 Rescuer: > > We have a PDP11/34 & 2 RK-05j drives with ~16 disk packs (some with RT-11 > v.4 software) and a 6' DEC rack with power panel that needs a good > home! We also have an 11/04 with a few boards and an RX-02 dual 8" floppy > drive unit. The /34 worked from 1979 till 2001 when we converted over to a > PC system. The /04 was last operated in the mid '80s. We also have a lot > of "paper" to go with them! > > Recycling them in some form would be much preferred to dumping in a land > fill, but we need to get rid of them very soon. The "no cost to us" option > would be great, if you have a mechanism for accomplishing that. Let me > know when the truck will be at our front door! > > Thanks, > Douglas Jones > Laboratory Director > > > -- > DOUGLAS L JONES > 8123 SW 184th Ave OMEGA ANALYTICAL SERVICES dlj9@earthlink.net > Aloha, OR 97007 "The Final Word In Surface Analysis" 503-649-8203 > (SiForest, USA) http://www.teleport.com/~dougj/oas/ < > ******************************************************************** > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > bill bradford > mrbill > austin, texas > _______________________________________________ > rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Apr 12 16:43:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" "Re: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper" (Apr 11, 13:46) References: Message-ID: <10304122239.ZM12325@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 11, 13:46, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, Tom Uban wrote: > > Does anyone know where 132 column (14x11) white (blank) fanfold > > paper is still available? Bowater used to make it years ago, but > > has since sold that business off... > > A petty correction: > It's 14 7/8, NOT 14. (15 7/8 including the edges). The nominal size sold here is 14.5" (and the stuff in boxes I have here measures 14 5/8") including the edges. And that makes sense, because 132 columns is nominally 13.2" (at 10 chars/inch pitch), plus a little for margins, plus 1/2" each side. I have seen listing paper described as 14x11, but it's actually about 14.5" x 11"; I've seen 11 x 15 1/16" (in a catalogue); I don't remember ever seeing anything as wide as 15 7/8". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Apr 12 17:03:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" Message-ID: <356DDC78-6D32-11D7-8E42-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Hi. I ran across an Amiga 2000 yesterday, with the front of the case silk-screened "Video Toaster Powered". No cables, keyboard, docs, or anything else, but the price was right. The motherboard is probably junk. The battery has leaked and etched a pretty large area, plus the GVP 030 accelerator (A3001) has dumped rubber sludge on the board. The rubber button on the back of the board *melted* and ran like hot fudge. http://amiga.resource.cx/gallery/A3001-50-back.jpg shows the button intact. Beware; that's a half-meg pic. There is a RAM-32 daughterboard, too, with 2x 4MB SIMMs, http://amiga.resource.cx/gallery/A3001-RAM32.jpg and a GVP SCSI hardcard with a 340MB drive and no DRAMs installed. The Video Toaster boardset is labeled v1.0, but there's a sticker that reads "Eval Board 08/90" It's cabled to a Faruodja Labs board, a "Y/C Separator Board". http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=ycp100 Also installed are 2 ISA cards by RGB Computers and Video. http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=amilink The short card I have has only 3 BNC connectors - positions 1. 3, and 5, and the long card has only the bottom two. I have another working 2000, so I could replace the motherboard, but I'm not sure I'd gain anything. I have a bunch of questions. I'm not really an "Amiga person", so don't assume any reasonable level of prior knowledge. Where the heck is the video out? I know zip about Video Toaster and even less about the Amilink adapters. All the online documentation assumes I know the basics, like how to hook the durned thing up.... Are there docs for the original VT? Software? I have an OpalVision, with documentation and software. Which is the better board for general futzing around? For animation & graphics? Any docs or software at all for the Amilink setup? Are the SIMMs for the A3001 unobtainium? I have a 33MHz CSI "Derringer 030" in the other 2000, but I don't like the clearance between the top of the accelerator and the drive bay - basically none. Plus, a 50MHz 68030 would be much nicer than a 33MHz. The hardware database page claims that the RAM-32 board needs 4x 1MB SIMMs installed to use the 2 4MB sticks, but this one just has 2x 4MB in the top two slots. Is the database page smoking crack? I haven't seen any pics or mention of the A2000 with the Toaster label on front. I get the impression that this machine is pretty much original - that it wasn't built a piece at a time. Anyone know anything about that? Thanks. Any pointers or help would be appreciated. From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Apr 12 17:27:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" In-Reply-To: <356DDC78-6D32-11D7-8E42-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Apr 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > Where the heck is the video out? I know zip about Video Toaster and > even less about the Amilink adapters. All the online documentation > assumes I know the basics, like how to hook the durned thing up.... If it's in there, it's a card on the opposite side of the power supply from the other cards in the machine. Should have 6 BNC connectors on it, the bottom two are Program and Preview outputs (I *think* in that order, can never remember). > Are there docs for the original VT? Software? I've got some of each, contact me off-list. > I have an OpalVision, with documentation and software. Which is the > better board for general futzing around? For animation & graphics? Never heard of that. The VideoToaster is good for (live) video switching/effects, titling, and that's about all. There's a 3D animation package, but you're probably better off with a good modern PC with a good video card. Things take AGES to render on something that slow. > Are the SIMMs for the A3001 unobtainium? I have a 33MHz CSI Those look a lot like 72pin SIMM slots. Have you tried parity or non-parity 72pin SIMMS from a PC or MAC yet? > "Derringer 030" in the other 2000, but I don't like the clearance > between the top of the accelerator and the drive bay - basically none. That's what electrical tape is for... Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Apr 12 17:47:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5A9A7580-6D38-11D7-8E42-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Saturday, April 12, 2003, at 05:30 PM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > If it's in there, it's a card on the opposite side of the power supply > from the other cards in the machine. Should have 6 BNC connectors on > it, > the bottom two are Program and Preview outputs (I *think* in that > order, > can never remember). Oh, yeah, the board set is there. I just can't find any specific diagrams or instructions. > >> Are there docs for the original VT? Software? > > I've got some of each, contact me off-list. OK. > Never heard of that. The VideoToaster is good for (live) video > switching/effects, titling, and that's about all. There's a 3D > animation > package, but you're probably better off with a good modern PC with a > good > video card. Things take AGES to render on something that slow. If I want to do serious rendering, I'll probably fire up the AS2100A.... This is strictly a toy. >> Are the SIMMs for the A3001 unobtainium? I have a 33MHz CSI > > Those look a lot like 72pin SIMM slots. Have you tried parity or > non-parity 72pin SIMMS from a PC or MAC yet? No, they're a proprietary form factor. 64-pin, IIRC. Bigger than 30-pin, smaller than 72-pin. Bah! >> "Derringer 030" in the other 2000, but I don't like the clearance >> between the top of the accelerator and the drive bay - basically none. > > That's what electrical tape is for... It's more a matter of ventilation than insulation. I'm sort of paranoid about processors with no room for airflow. Doc From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Apr 12 18:56:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Apple IIe for $700 In-Reply-To: <20030412163846.1960.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <000101c3014e$d43cb110$947ba8c0@piii933> Gary Dean Hildebrand writes: > the winning bidder probably has several Corvettes too -- and all they are > is a plastic Chevy. Bite your tongue, heathen! :) Erik From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Apr 12 19:01:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Apple IIe for $700 References: <000101c3014e$d43cb110$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <008a01c3014e$a3e6e1c0$0400fea9@game> I happen to own a very nice 1981 corvette, whats that have to do with overpaying for a Apple IIe? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik S. Klein" To: Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 7:54 PM Subject: RE: Apple IIe for $700 > Gary Dean Hildebrand writes: > > > the winning bidder probably has several Corvettes too -- and all they > are > is a plastic Chevy. > > Bite your tongue, heathen! :) > > Erik From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Apr 12 19:50:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's (was: Apple IIe for $700) In-Reply-To: <000101c3014e$d43cb110$947ba8c0@piii933> References: <20030412163846.1960.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <000101c3014e$d43cb110$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <20030413011715.GD64756@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Erik S. Klein, from writings of Sat, Apr 12, 2003 at 04:54:17PM -0700: > Gary Dean Hildebrand writes: > > > the winning bidder probably has several Corvettes too -- and all they > are > is a plastic Chevy. > > Bite your tongue, heathen! :) Hey, isn't a Corvette a Chevy that isn't strong enough to move around with a steel body? I heard they had to use fiberglass to make it capable of reasonable performance for a Chevy. Aye, P.T. Barnum would have loved the concept... pay a lot of money and don't get a real automobile (although, as we all know, real automobiles are no longer manufactured, but plenty of suckers still pay a fortune to buy the modern pseudo-automotive rubbish). I realize the superiority of Fords to Chevy's, so, go ahead, call me a Heathen as well... and I'll accept it as a fine compliment. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Apr 12 20:41:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Toy Chevy's (was: Apple IIe for $700) In-Reply-To: <20030413011715.GD64756@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <000101c3015d$83049dd0$947ba8c0@piii933> Actually, the fiberglass body of the older Vettes is probably as heavy or heavier then a comparable steel body. Fiberglass was chosen for its ability to be formed into more attractive shapes. A concept Ford has had a hard time grasping. Meanwhile I'll pit my Chevy against your Fraud (probably a Rustang, right?) any day of the week and twice on Sundays! :) Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of R. D. Davis Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 6:17 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's (was: Apple IIe for $700) Quothe Erik S. Klein, from writings of Sat, Apr 12, 2003 at 04:54:17PM -0700: > Gary Dean Hildebrand writes: > > > the winning bidder probably has several Corvettes too -- and all they > are > is a plastic Chevy. > > Bite your tongue, heathen! :) Hey, isn't a Corvette a Chevy that isn't strong enough to move around with a steel body? I heard they had to use fiberglass to make it capable of reasonable performance for a Chevy. Aye, P.T. Barnum would have loved the concept... pay a lot of money and don't get a real automobile (although, as we all know, real automobiles are no longer manufactured, but plenty of suckers still pay a fortune to buy the modern pseudo-automotive rubbish). I realize the superiority of Fords to Chevy's, so, go ahead, call me a Heathen as well... and I'll accept it as a fine compliment. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 12 21:59:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper In-Reply-To: <10304122239.ZM12325@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > > It's 14 7/8, NOT 14. (15 7/8 including the edges). On Sat, 12 Apr 2003, Peter Turnbull wrote: > The nominal size sold here is 14.5" (and the stuff in boxes I have here > measures 14 5/8") including the edges. And that makes sense, because > 132 columns is nominally 13.2" (at 10 chars/inch pitch), plus a little > for margins, plus 1/2" each side. I have seen listing paper described > as 14x11, but it's actually about 14.5" x 11"; I've seen 11 x 15 1/16" > (in a catalogue); I don't remember ever seeing anything as wide as 15 > 7/8". The nominal size sold here is 14 7/8. But I suppose that anywhere that you go, there are some people who round off such things ("Give me some of that striped stuff that's a few feet wide"). Around here, the box always says 14 7/8 You ARE right that that is INCLUDING the tearoffs - 13 7/8 without, 14 7/8 with. I got sloppy with the fact that with narrow paper (8.5"), the nominal size is without the tearoffs. (9.5" with the tearoffs) BTW, there ARE papers available wider than 15". But not at Chumpusa. You have to go to a place that handles large format computer forms. For an example of the "multiple perf": http://www.gotoforms.com/templates/frmTemplateM.asp?CatalogID=117&Zoom=Yes&SubFolderId=20 From aeg at paradise.net.nz Sat Apr 12 22:55:00 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: HH drives Message-ID: Hi All I have a newbie question I don't have much experience with HH type drives and recently unearthed a Wyse Technologies machine at the local refuse recycling centre (it's a shop rather than me wading though a landfill site - I'm not that desperate). Inside this machine (stated built in 1986) were two HH type 5.25" hard drives (one a Segate ST-251 the other not branded but built 1989). On boot up I get: Pheonix 80386 ROM BIOS version 3.53 (c) 1985, 1986 Pheonix Technologies Ltd 640K Base 1408K Extended Memory Hard Disk Failure I have booted the system using a floppy and one drive (the unbranded one) is partially readable. It is a 41Mb drive split into two partitions (primary & extended) - FAT16 system It seems to have been installed with DRDOS. Using my later versions of DOS on floppy I cannot get the drive to respond to any standard commands (I always get a 'Sector not found' error). Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked and now physically damaged? I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive characteristics... are they all dead? Thanks in advance Alan From donm at cts.com Sat Apr 12 23:48:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: HH drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote: > Hi All > > I have a newbie question > I don't have much experience with HH type drives and recently unearthed > a Wyse Technologies machine at the local refuse recycling centre (it's > a shop rather than me wading though a landfill site - I'm not that > desperate). > > Inside this machine (stated built in 1986) were two HH type 5.25" hard > drives (one a Segate ST-251 the other not branded but built 1989). > > On boot up I get: > Pheonix 80386 ROM BIOS version 3.53 > (c) 1985, 1986 Pheonix Technologies Ltd > 640K Base 1408K Extended Memory > Hard Disk Failure > > I have booted the system using a floppy and one drive (the unbranded > one) is partially readable. > It is a 41Mb drive split into two partitions (primary & extended) - > FAT16 system > It seems to have been installed with DRDOS. > Using my later versions of DOS on floppy I cannot get the drive to > respond to any standard commands (I always get a 'Sector not found' > error). > Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked > and now physically damaged? > > I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive > characteristics... are they all dead? Have you gone into the BIOS to see what the settings are for the drives? Does the clock/calendar work properly? If not, the battery may be dead and settings incorrect. - don > Thanks in advance > > Alan From oldcomp at cox.net Sun Apr 13 00:01:01 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: HH drives References: Message-ID: <3E98EE7D.3050808@cox.net> Check the BIOS settings first. I have a program called spinrite that I remember using to recover disks. I can't remember everything it can do, but I remember that it saved a lot of hard drives for me... let me know off line if you would like a copy and I can email it to you. -Bryan > > Using my later versions of DOS on floppy I cannot get the drive to > respond to any standard commands (I always get a 'Sector not found' > error). > Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked > and now physically damaged? From marvin at rain.org Sun Apr 13 00:08:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: HH drives References: Message-ID: <3E98F035.18506D5E@rain.org> Alan Greenstreet wrote: > On boot up I get: > Pheonix 80386 ROM BIOS version 3.53 > (c) 1985, 1986 Pheonix Technologies Ltd > 640K Base 1408K Extended Memory > Hard Disk Failure Have you checked the CMOS settings for the correct HD parameters? The "sector not found" error sounds like the HD is being recognized, and it is possible that a low level format followed by a high level format might solve the problems. *My* preference in such cases is to use Spinrite as it can reformat the drive without losing data ... assuming the original data is still accessible. From aeg at paradise.net.nz Sun Apr 13 00:51:44 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: HH drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sunday, Apr 13, 2003, at 16:45 Pacific/Auckland, Don Maslin wrote: > On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote: >> Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked >> and now physically damaged? >> >> I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive >> characteristics... are they all dead? > > Have you gone into the BIOS to see what the settings are for the > drives? Does the clock/calendar work properly? If not, the > battery may be dead and settings incorrect. > > - don > The BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I can read the partition table and the attributes of the disk. A small victory: Through persistence I can now read the data in the extended partition but it is quite unreliable (sometimes reads sometimes not) - the disk makes a _lot_ of noise and quite obviously wants to be left alone... Not to be outdone I will try Spinrite. Another question - is it worth trying to save? Has anyone got any information on Wyse Technologies machines? The google thing didn't bring up much other than another collector stating it was a 386 server??? Thanks Alan From drido at optushome.com.au Sun Apr 13 01:02:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" In-Reply-To: <5A9A7580-6D38-11D7-8E42-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030413160026.010fccb8@mail.optushome.com.au> At 05:44 PM 4/12/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Saturday, April 12, 2003, at 05:30 PM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: >>> Are the SIMMs for the A3001 unobtainium? I have a 33MHz CSI >> >> Those look a lot like 72pin SIMM slots. Have you tried parity or >> non-parity 72pin SIMMS from a PC or MAC yet? > > No, they're a proprietary form factor. 64-pin, IIRC. Bigger than >30-pin, smaller than 72-pin. Bah! 64 pin SIMMs can be found in Mac IIfxs and some AST 386/486 PCs, though I doubt either are that easy to find now. Can't say whether these 64 pin SIMMs are the same as the ones used on your card either.. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Apr 13 01:03:01 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Favorite Terminal Emulator In-Reply-To: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> References: <000401c2fe46$72b7d010$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <200304122300320359.00B44806@192.168.42.129> Good eve, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-Apr-03 at 20:16 Erik S. Klein wrote: >Does anyone have a favorite Windows based terminal emulator? Yes indeed. CRT, by Van Dyke Software. Not only can it handle serial, and a nice VT100 emulation at that, it also does Telnet and TAPI. Shareware at about $30 or so. My fallback is Procomm Plus for Windows. Kind of hard to find, but still very useful. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From marvin at rain.org Sun Apr 13 01:04:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: HH drives References: Message-ID: <3E98FD73.7B68A9A3@rain.org> Alan Greenstreet wrote: > > > The BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I > can read the partition table and the attributes of the disk. What kind of HD controller is being used, 8 bit or 16 bit? I have seen XT controllers used in AT machines, and the bios hd settings are then set at none. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Apr 13 02:55:01 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Toy Chevy's (was: Apple IIe for $700) In-Reply-To: <000101c3015d$83049dd0$947ba8c0@piii933> References: <000101c3015d$83049dd0$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <20030413075140.30244.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Erik S. Klein writes: > Meanwhile I'll pit my Chevy against your Fraud (probably a Rustang, > right?) any day of the week and twice on Sundays! :) > > Erik > >> Gary Dean Hildebrand writes: >> >> > the winning bidder probably has several Corvettes too -- and all they are is a plastic Chevy. >> >> Bite your tongue, heathen! :) Well as a matter of fact here . . . I drive a 91 Escort -- does me very well at 37 to 40 mpg or better if I drive it gingerly (less than 55 mph). For performance I'm a 60's Mopar man at heart. Last comment on this thread, we'll get back to vintage DECS rather than rustbuckets. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Apr 13 03:01:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: HH drives & DRDOS Message-ID: <2b.3d6875f4.2bca72ca@aol.com> There is another clue in this. I thought it booted DRDOS from the first message. I am not really familiar with DRDOS but I suspect a disk formatted under that would be different from formatting under MS or PCDOS. Do check your BIOS settings and battery. Paxton Astoria, OR From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Apr 13 03:26:01 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Video?= Toaster =?iso-8859-1?Q?Powered=22?= In-Reply-To: <356DDC78-6D32-11D7-8E42-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> References: <356DDC78-6D32-11D7-8E42-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20030413082206.26774.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Doc Shipley writes: > Hi. > I ran across an Amiga 2000 yesterday, with the front of the case > silk-screened "Video Toaster Powered". No cables, keyboard, docs, or > anything else, but the price was right. You're kinda SOL without a keyboard as a PC keyboard will not interchange. You can get an adapter that translates the keycodes from PC to Amiga and then use a cheap PC keyboard for about the same price you'd pay for an Amiga 2000/3000 keyboard. The mouse is incompatible as well, and if you had the keyboard you could work around that. > The motherboard is probably junk. The battery has leaked and etched a > pretty large area, plus the GVP 030 accelerator (A3001) has dumped rubber > sludge on the board. The rubber button on the back of the board *melted* > and ran like hot fudge. Does it boot up -- should give you a picture of a hand inserting a workbench 1.2 or 2.x disk out both the RGB and the composite video jacks. > > http://amiga.resource.cx/gallery/A3001-50-back.jpg shows the button > intact. Beware; that's a half-meg pic. > > There is a RAM-32 daughterboard, too, with 2x 4MB SIMMs, > > http://amiga.resource.cx/gallery/A3001-RAM32.jpg > > and a GVP SCSI hardcard with a 340MB drive and no DRAMs installed. > The Video Toaster boardset is labeled v1.0, but there's a sticker that > reads "Eval Board 08/90" It's cabled to a Faruodja Labs board, a "Y/C > Separator Board" That gives you s-video output --- seperates the chroma from the luminance information, like on S-VHS recorders. A bit better video quality doing things this way.. > > http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=ycp100 > > Also installed are 2 ISA cards by RGB Computers and Video. These are probably TBC's needed for two tape inputs for the Toaster. They only got DC power from the ISA buss. > > http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=amilink > > The short card I have has only 3 BNC connectors - positions 1. 3, and 5, > and the long card has only the bottom two. > Got me there. > I have another working 2000, so I could replace the motherboard, but I'm > not sure I'd gain anything. I have a bunch of questions. I'm not really > an "Amiga person", so don't assume any reasonable level of prior > knowledge. > > Where the heck is the video out? The connectors on the Toaster should be Inputs 1-4 , preview, and video output top to bottom. All inputs have to be sync timed to the #1 input, which is the reference that the Toaster works from. The monitor has to be RGB, attached to the DB23 ouput connector. Composite video is available at the RCA jack, but is not color encoded (b&w) > Are there docs for the original VT? Software? I don't have copies yet, but it is out there. You can get a CD ROM from Newtek for $100 that has all the versions of the software. > I have an OpalVision, with documentation and software. Which is the > better board for general futzing around? For animation & graphics? Stick with the native gfx for general futzing/games/etc. The Opalvision and other gfx boards just provide greater resolution/color resolution, and usually feed a VGA/SVGA mornitor. Native video mode is NTSC rates RGB analog output. You'll soon find out why Amigas needed a flickerfixer. > Any docs or software at all for the Amilink setup? I'm sure there is -- might check aminet.org for anything pertinenet. > Are the SIMMs for the A3001 unobtainium? I have a 33MHz CSI "Derringer > 030" in the other 2000, but I don't like the clearance between the top of > the accelerator and the drive bay - basically none. Plus, a 50MHz 68030 > would be much nicer than a 33MHz. The hardware database page claims that > the RAM-32 board needs 4x 1MB SIMMs installed to use the 2 4MB sticks, but > this one just has 2x 4MB in the top two slots. Is the database page > smoking crack? I think GVP-M still has those SIMMs available, as they used those in quite a few of their products. They ain't cheap. > I haven't seen any pics or mention of the A2000 with the Toaster label > on front. I get the impression that this machine is pretty much original > - that it wasn't built a piece at a time. Anyone know anything about > that? The Amigas with the Toaster racing stripe were OEM machines built by Newtek and sold turnkey with whatever was needed to make things all work. The GVP SCSI controller was needed for HD access, and the 030 made things a bit livlier than the 7 mHz 68000 in the stock A2k. > > Thanks. Any pointers or help would be appreciated. Glad to help out there. I have 15 Toaster cards here collecting dust . . . . . Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Apr 13 04:01:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" In-Reply-To: <20030413082206.26774.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <18F45834-6D8E-11D7-B93F-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 03:22 AM, Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: > Doc Shipley writes: >> Hi. >> I ran across an Amiga 2000 yesterday, with the front of the case >> silk-screened "Video Toaster Powered". No cables, keyboard, docs, or >> anything else, but the price was right. > > You're kinda SOL without a keyboard as a PC keyboard will not > interchange. You can get an adapter that translates the keycodes from > PC to Amiga and then use a cheap PC keyboard for about the same price > you'd pay for an Amiga 2000/3000 keyboard. The mouse is incompatible > as well, and if you had the keyboard you could work around that. I have a keyboard that belongs to the other 2000, and several mice. What I don't have is the cables for the Toaster. >> The motherboard is probably junk. The battery has leaked and >> etched a pretty large area, plus the GVP 030 accelerator (A3001) has >> dumped rubber sludge on the board. The rubber button on the back of >> the board *melted* and ran like hot fudge. > > Does it boot up -- should give you a picture of a hand inserting a > workbench 1.2 or 2.x disk out both the RGB and the composite video > jacks. Haven't powered it at all. I want to at least get the rubber sludge off the board first, and replace the onboard battery. I'm much more concerned about the etching around the battery than anything else. >> The Video Toaster boardset is labeled v1.0, but there's a sticker >> that reads "Eval Board 08/90" It's cabled to a Faruodja Labs board, >> a "Y/C Separator Board" > > That gives you s-video output --- seperates the chroma from the > luminance information, like on S-VHS recorders. A bit better video > quality doing things this way.. So if I can find docs for that board, I can get output with a standard S-video cable? >> http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=ycp100 Also installed are >> 2 ISA cards by RGB Computers and Video. > > These are probably TBC's needed for two tape inputs for the Toaster. > They only got DC power from the ISA buss. Ah. I kind of thought that. It's an AT card-edge, which would be incredibly slow graphics. >> http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=amilink The short card >> I have has only 3 BNC connectors - positions 1. 3, and 5, and the >> long card has only the bottom two. > > Got me there. They're definitely some iteration of the Amilink set. I wonder if they are the CI set, which only supported one particular VCR. > The connectors on the Toaster should be Inputs 1-4 , preview, and > video output top to bottom. All inputs have to be sync timed to the > #1 input, which is the reference that the Toaster works from. The > monitor has to be RGB, attached to the DB23 ouput connector. > Composite video is available at the RCA jack, but is not color encoded > (b&w) OK, thanks. This means that I can attach my 1084 to the standard connector, without any cabling for the Video Toaster, right? The documentation to the OpalVision card in the other A2000 warns against that, so I didn't want to experiment much. >> Are there docs for the original VT? Software? > > I don't have copies yet, but it is out there. You can get a CD ROM > from Newtek for $100 that has all the versions of the software. Oh, yeah, I saw that on their website. I can get a later-rev Video Toaster off eBay, with software, documentation, and cables, for much less. Speaking of revisions, does the fact that it's labeled an eval board mean anything? In terms of drivers and software, and in terms of value? > Stick with the native gfx for general futzing/games/etc. The > Opalvision and other gfx boards just provide greater resolution/color > resolution, and usually feed a VGA/SVGA mornitor. Native video mode > is NTSC rates RGB analog output. You'll soon find out why Amigas > needed a flickerfixer. BTDT, with the flicker.... The OpalVision is 23-pin RGB output, and so far I haven't found anything to gripe about with it. >> Any docs or software at all for the Amilink setup? > > I'm sure there is -- might check aminet.org for anything pertinenet. I wasn't able to resolve www.aminet.org, and it was down last month too. Know of a working mirror? > I think GVP-M still has those SIMMs available, as they used those in > quite a few of their products. They ain't cheap. 'Fraid of that. I'm terribly tempted to shift some chips around. I know the Derringer supports a 50MHz CPU.... My mix & match options are to run the GVP '030 with its 8MB, plus the 8MB on my other GVP HC+8 hardcard, or to swap the 50MHz proc onto the Derringer with its 16MB, giving me a total of 24MB. I'm just not all that thrilled with the way the Derringer sits on the board. Any opinion there? >> Thanks. Any pointers or help would be appreciated. > > Glad to help out there. I have 15 Toaster cards here collecting dust > . . . . . Cables? Later revision? Thanks again for the information. Every Little Bit Helps. :) Doc From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sun Apr 13 04:54:01 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: HH drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030413104107.0307ae18@pop.freeserve.net> I've used a number of Wyse 286 & 386 machines in the past (as servers). Early machines did not have a BIOS configuration program built in - you had to boot a setup floppy. (I *might* still have one kicking about somewhere in the old discs at the office, if you need it; might also have some manuals.) If the battery went, then you need to set it up again. They mostly used fixed disc parameters, from which you selected the one closest to your drive, and with no "user definable" mode. I also had a lot of disc failures in those days. (I remember one particularly memorable day trying to read that one last sector off a dead disc on an old machine, in desperation dropping the machine 3", upside down, timed exactly right - and it read it!) Discs were usually st306? Three cables from a controller to the discs - one shared between drives, one each per drive. Floppy drives run from same controller. Seperate cards for Parallel+Serial (or parallel + 2 serial) video, etc. Has yours got that natty (but impractical) LCD display on the front? regards Rob. At 17:49 13/04/2003 +1200, you wrote: >On Sunday, Apr 13, 2003, at 16:45 Pacific/Auckland, Don Maslin wrote: > >>On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote: >>>Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked >>>and now physically damaged? >>> >>>I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive >>>characteristics... are they all dead? >> >>Have you gone into the BIOS to see what the settings are for the >>drives? Does the clock/calendar work properly? If not, the >>battery may be dead and settings incorrect. >> >> - don >The BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I can >read the partition table and the attributes of the disk. >A small victory: Through persistence I can now read the data in the >extended partition but it is quite unreliable (sometimes reads sometimes >not) - the disk makes a _lot_ of noise and quite obviously wants to be >left alone... >Not to be outdone I will try Spinrite. > >Another question - is it worth trying to save? Has anyone got any >information on Wyse Technologies machines? >The google thing didn't bring up much other than another collector stating >it was a 386 server??? > >Thanks > >Alan From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Apr 13 09:00:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" In-Reply-To: <18F45834-6D8E-11D7-B93F-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > Cables? Later revision? The connectors are just standard BNC composite video, like any pro video editing equipment (that's not old enough to use UHF connectors). Just go find yourself BNC->RCA's if you're going to use it with 'consumer' video equipment, you can get them for probably $20 each ;-) at RadioShack or for a lot cheaper from anywhere else - including http://www.allcorp.com, one of my favorite surplus mail-order places. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Apr 13 09:24:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Update: Re: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55B44D8E-6DBB-11D7-ABF4-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 09:04 AM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > The connectors are just standard BNC composite video, like any pro > video > editing equipment (that's not old enough to use UHF connectors). Just > go > find yourself BNC->RCA's if you're going to use it with 'consumer' > video > equipment, you can get them for probably $20 each ;-) at RadioShack or > for > a lot cheaper from anywhere else - including http://www.allcorp.com, > one > of my favorite surplus mail-order places. Cool. I've actually never seen one before. :) I disassembled the computer, pulled the system board, and cleaned the rubber sludge with isopropyl alcohol and an old soft toothbrush. When I got it out in the light, the etching around the battery is more ugly than functional. There is damage, but I think it's mostly cosmetic. Next order of business, while the parts dry, is to shoot Newtek an email and see if they have any documentation for this particular box, specifically the cabling arrangements and application of the RGB Computer & Video controllers. And if they're going to want my firstborn in trade for info. Second order of biz is to mount the system drive in the other A2000 and commit sacrilege - make a backup. Snoop around on it in the process, of course. In a couple of days, I'll install another battery (if I can find one! RatShack here is getting notably allergic to legacy parts.....), put it all together, plug it in, and see if any smoke falls out. > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS BTW, my spellchecker *really* wants you to respell "university" ;^) Doc From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Apr 13 10:29:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Video?= Toaster =?iso-8859-1?Q?Powered=22?= In-Reply-To: <18F45834-6D8E-11D7-B93F-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> References: <18F45834-6D8E-11D7-B93F-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20030413152517.17039.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Doc Shipley writes: > On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 03:22 AM, Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: > >> Doc Shipley writes: >>> The Video Toaster boardset is labeled v1.0, but there's a sticker that >>> reads "Eval Board 08/90" It's cabled to a Faruodja Labs board, a "Y/C >>> Separator Board" >> >> That gives you s-video output --- seperates the chroma from the luminance >> information, like on S-VHS recorders. A bit better video quality doing >> things this way.. > > So if I can find docs for that board, I can get output with a standard > S-video cable? Yes. > Also installed are 2 ISA cards by RGB Computers and Video. >> >> These are probably TBC's needed for two tape inputs for the Toaster. >> They only got DC power from the ISA buss. > > Ah. I kind of thought that. It's an AT card-edge, which would be > incredibly slow graphics. Not necessarily. Most PC gfx cards only shuffle control data, not the actual digital vidio on the ISA buss. You're not going to get good animation, but the older Targa/Vista boards did wonderful things with still graphics. > > OK, thanks. This means that I can attach my 1084 to the standard > connector, without any cabling for the Video Toaster, right? Yep. Only composite video is input/output on the Toaster BNC jacks. You'll need a couple composite monitors, one with a loop-through input (two jacks) for the program output. and the other for the preview. The 1084 will only have the control panel displayed. Should be an array of wipes, and a 6 input switcher and 'fader' bar to the right of it. The interface is pretty user-friendly, if you've been around video switcher before. > >>> Are there docs for the original VT? Software? >> >> I don't have copies yet, but it is out there. You can get a CD ROM from >> Newtek for $100 that has all the versions of the software. > > Oh, yeah, I saw that on their website. I can get a later-rev Video > Toaster off eBay, with software, documentation, and cables, for much less. > > Speaking of revisions, does the fact that it's labeled an eval board > mean anything? In terms of drivers and software, and in terms of value? > > > I wasn't able to resolve www.aminet.org, and it was down last month too. > Know of a working mirror? There should be, I do know of one in Germany. Can't remember the URL though. > >> I think GVP-M still has those SIMMs available, as they used those in >> quite a few of their products. They ain't cheap. > > 'Fraid of that. I'm terribly tempted to shift some chips around. I > know the Derringer supports a 50MHz CPU.... > My mix & match options are to run the GVP '030 with its 8MB, plus the > 8MB on my other GVP HC+8 hardcard, or to swap the 50MHz proc onto the > Derringer with its 16MB, giving me a total of 24MB. I'm just not all that > thrilled with the way the Derringer sits on the board. > > Any opinion there? Well you don't need that much memory for the Toaster. All video is done on the Toaster card itself. The Toaster just translates the program control into what is needed to manipulate the effects etc. 8 Meg would be MORE than enough. > >>> Thanks. Any pointers or help would be appreciated. >> >> Glad to help out there. I have 15 Toaster cards here collecting dust . . >> . . . > > Cables? Later revision? I'll have to check the revision -- get back to you later today on that, when I dig them out. One card is still in the factory static bag, never used in a machine. I'm not sure, but one of my Toaster 2k's had a Washburn University inventory tag on it, and I think they were surplussed out of Washburn U in Topeka. Seems they had a whole slew of them at one point in time, and I got extra parts and stuff, along with some Flyer cards. The Flyer was used with the Toaster to make a true non-linear digital editing system. That needs at least an 030 and 16 Megs RAM to play fairly well. A complete Toaster/Flyer system still commands several thousand bucks used. I'm thinking about building one, but I'm in need of three good sized fast SCSI drives for video/audio file storage, enough to hold around an hour of video. Use BNC cables with RG59 (75 ohm) for everything, and stay away from RCA phono style plugs. The BNC's with the twist/ears keeps things together. After that is all hooked up then you'll have to time the system, which is best done with a dual trace scope. Also having a good sync generator with a blackburst output is highly suggested to feed input #1 for timing purposes. You aren't out of the woods yet getting that thing up and running. When the Toaster came out a lot of video novices expected a plug and play unit, which it isn't. I think they became old technology when digital video cams came out and all editing/effects were done in the digital domain, instead of on the NTSC analog signal. You might contact a local TV station or video production house to see if you can rent an engineer (like me!) for a few hours to help get you through the tough parts. > > Thanks again for the information. Every Little Bit Helps. :) Always glad to help. gh From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 13 11:35:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Macintosh System 7.5.x question Message-ID: Does anyone remember what the last update to System 7.5.x was? I'm in the process of getting my old PowerBook 540c (purchased used a few years ago to replace the 520c I wore out) setup to use as a 'typewriter', and noticed that I've got it running System 7.5.3. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From c.morris at townsqr.com Sun Apr 13 11:38:00 2003 From: c.morris at townsqr.com (Dr. Charles E. Morris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: ASR33 reader woes Message-ID: <005101c2fdfd$8bc98bf0$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) >May I ask a very simple question. What machine are you using this with (from the description below, I assume a PDP8). If it _is_ a PDP8, do you have the reader control relay mod fitted correctly? If not, then you _will_ drop characters I think. My computer is an 8/L. I do not have the relay fitted at all. After a careful examination of the schematic and manuals, this relay only forces TTY power on, in LINE mode (this is redundant if the TTY is already on and prepared to read a tape), and also forces 115V to the distributor trip coil so that a tape will immediately start reading if present. Without the relay a manual start is required by simply flipping the reader lever to "Start". Everything gets up to speed after one or two characters of leader no matter how the reader is initiated. No characters will be dropped since the program will loop indefinitely at the usual KSF, JMP.-1 until a character is assembled and sent to the TTY receiver card. >That's very odd. The most obvious mechanical problem would be wear on the ratchet wheel teeth in the reader. But that would cause problems once (or n times) for every revolution of that wheel (and the drive sproket) -- Quite. That's why I'm scratching my head! >So what you're saying is that it sends the correct number of chracters, but some of them are corrupted to 0's? Yes, when an error occurs while printing the test tape I can "hear" the nonprinting character being sent to the typing unit (it "jumps" but nothing appears on the paper) and the next consecutive char is then printed correctly. >Either your read pins are misaligned (they should come through the middle of the tape holes -- check this), or the contacts are sometimes not making properly. Agreed. They look centered to me (but what IS the definition of "centered" i.e. at what point in the read cycle? The tape and pins do not seem perfectly stationary with respect to one another during the read cycle.) The manual shows that the sprocket wheel should be rotated forward to take up the slack against the detent at which point the pins are centered in the holes. IF I'm reading this right. Actually they show a "Gate Flash" that looks like a hole on the side of the sprocket, which does not exist in my reader. >Try running the reader without tape, with the EOT sensor held down. It should then send all 1's. Check that it does (use the PDP8 for this with a similar program to yhe one you've written already, just get it to halt if the character is not all 1's). Let it run for many minutes. Excellent suggestion, thank you. I will try this right away. >A really Heath Robbinson (Rube Goldberg?) trick Who's Heath Robbinson? I always liked Rube Goldberg's inventions... >3) focus a camera on the reader mechanism. Set the aperture appropriately for the flashgun. Make the room dark, hold the shutter open on B, let it run 4) When the flash fires, close the shutter, turn everything off 5) Develop the film and hope that it shows you what the problem is. -tony Sounds awfully complicated. Perhaps I can do this with my Sony digital camera if it has a sync input! thanks for the tips -Charles From acruicks at cix.compulink.co.uk Sun Apr 13 11:38:10 2003 From: acruicks at cix.compulink.co.uk (Alex Cruickshank) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: V-Tel Message-ID: Dear Andreas, I found your message; http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-December/005834.html I wondered whether you would be willing to give me a copy of your 'V-Tel' client? I've been looking for something to Telnet into a mail server using the PsiMail Internet TCP/IP stack, but all I've found so far is alpha-quality Telnet clients. I would be very grateful if you could help. Regards, Alex Alex Cruickshank 12 Barton Way, Croxley Green, Herts., WD3 3QA, UK +44 (0)1923 773112 acruicks@cix.co.uk From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Apr 13 11:42:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Macintosh System 7.5.x question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Does anyone remember what the last update to System 7.5.x was? I'm in > the process of getting my old PowerBook 540c (purchased used a few years > ago to replace the 520c I wore out) setup to use as a 'typewriter', and > noticed that I've got it running System 7.5.3. 7.5.5, it's available from apple's support web site. There's also System 7.6.1 IIRC... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jklein at electronic-boardroom.com Sun Apr 13 11:43:01 2003 From: jklein at electronic-boardroom.com (*June R. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II Message-ID: God bless you John! Mine has just started having paper getting stuck on the "teeth roller" underneath the larger one next to the green felt "hot" area. It needs a new smaller roller cause worn out. There are a number of rollers that look like this, how do I tell which one it is in order to order the right one? Thanks very much. Somewhere down the line I'll return the favor. Regards, June From Profllew at aol.com Sun Apr 13 11:43:10 2003 From: Profllew at aol.com (Profllew@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Juki 6100 Message-ID: <12b.275d9e1c.2bc598a3@aol.com> Mike Davis, You probably already have an answer on your question about a ribbon for the Juki, but on the rare chance you haven't: Ribbons for the IBM Selectric II work on the Juki. Some of the newer ribbons tend to snag about half way thru and I have to remove the old ribbon half and attach the new to make the ribbon work. I'm trying to find a driver for the Juki to install on newer word processors. Bill Lllewellyn From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Sun Apr 13 11:43:20 2003 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Interfacing HP82905A Printer to HP85 Message-ID: <200304091639.h39Gdqjf026750@codex.cis.upenn.edu> The manual is available at The www.series80.org site contains scanned manuals, programs and pictures of the HP Series computers and peripherals. **vp From kelly at catcorner.org Sun Apr 13 11:43:28 2003 From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Tandy 6000 available for pickup in AR (was RE: TRS-80 Madness) Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B862@308server.308dole.com> not by me... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=179&item=3412008207&r d=1 A 6000 with external HD and some software. Must pick it up though. Comes with a bunch of PeeCees too. Guy says you can pick and choose what you want. Only 4 hours left and is only $1.00 right now... Kelly From notwax at yahoo.com Sun Apr 13 11:43:38 2003 From: notwax at yahoo.com (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: "First" Personal Computer In-Reply-To: <200304041819.KAA25322@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20030409173604.49098.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> Apparently, the first device that was touted as a "personal computer" was the HP 9100A, back in 1968. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.12/mustread.html?pg=11 -W From jontitus at attbi.com Sun Apr 13 11:43:52 2003 From: jontitus at attbi.com (Jon Titus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: How many Mark 8's? Message-ID: Hello: Let me chime in on the number of Mark-8 computers, etc. Several years ago I went through some old records that showed the royalties paid to me by both Radio-Electronics magazine and Techniques. R-E paid a small royalty for each of the instruction booklets they sold. You may recall the original magazine article could not hold all the information and construction details. Techniques paid a royalty on the sets of printed-circuit boards (PCBs) they sold. Based on the information I still have, I figure R-E sold about 7500 copies of the booklet, and Techniques sold about 400 sets of PCBs. Unfortunately, the original R-E article and the booklet failed to publish a key piece of information: the wiring diagram for the board-to-board connections. So, I heard from many people who needed this information, but these communications took place before email and low-cost fax, so I have no record nor recollection of how many people I spoke with. As you can probably guess, I also have no idea how many people actually built a Mark-8, nor do I know how many of those built systems still exist. My original Mark-8 is in the Smithsonian, and it was in working condition when it left here, so that counts as one system. The prototype memory board for the original point-to-point wired Mark-8 prototype went to the American Computer Museum in Bozeman, MT in October. The ACM also got mimeographed copies of the original "Mark-8 Newsletter" and its successor, the "Micro-8 Newsletter." If anyone has questions about the Mark-8, refer to the Web site: http://www.his.com/~jlewczyk/adavie/mark8b.html which contains information I wrote back in 1999. (I need to go back and clean it up a bit.) Please note, the email addresses in that posting are incorrect. People can reach me at the permanent email addresses: KZ1G@ARRL.NET or jontitus@hendrielane.com For a while longer, the jontitus@attbi.com email still works. We expect a shift to comcast.net sometime soon, though. Cheers, Jon Jon Titus 36 Sunset Drive Milford, MA 01757-1362 USA Phone: +1-508-478-8040 E-mail: jontitus@attbi.com Member, National Association of Science Writers From sidneybnice at earthlink.net Sun Apr 13 11:44:02 2003 From: sidneybnice at earthlink.net (sidneybnice@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Running T5200 R u interested? Message-ID: <004501c2ff65$294dcea0$08f3e9ce@P4> Everything works but the floppy drive. Don't know if it is the controller or the floppy drive. Anyway it is in my closet taking up space. ______________________________ Respectfully and with my best regards, Sidney B. Nice sidneyb@vonl.com From root at parse.com Sun Apr 13 11:44:12 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Needed rackmount stuff for an 8/E, 8/M, and 11/20... Message-ID: <200304101412.KAA15833@parse.com> Hoping someone has some spare rackmount parts. For my 8/E, it was pulled out of a rack, so it just needs the parts that are inside the rack -- approximately 1+3/4" high sliders; my /E has the part that goes *into* the sliders. For my 8/M, it needs the complete rack kit, as does my 11/20. Anyone able to help out? Thanks in advance, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From junkmale at mindspring.com Sun Apr 13 11:44:22 2003 From: junkmale at mindspring.com (JunkMale) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:57 2005 Subject: Items For Free ??? Message-ID: <6131507.1050010026244.JavaMail.nobody@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Hi Just joined the list and came across this in the October archives from Rich Beaudry. Sorry but I don't know if I can contact you off list. I know the posting is a bit old but I thought it would not hurt to ask. I am looking for one or more IBM 3270 Microchannel cards for a pet project of mine. If you (or anyone else) still have this one card available I would be happy to pay the shipping costs and even offer a couple of dollars for your trouble if you like. I could use more than one if anyone else has any that they are willing to part with. Thanks for your time, Michael From vance at neurotica.com Sun Apr 13 11:44:32 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: The very first personal computers - How many are left? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > If the IBM 5100 is classed as an 'early personal computer', why isn't > the HP9830 also included? The 9830 came out in 1973 (I think, maybe > 1974). It had a cut-down BASIC in ROM (no string variables, for one > thing, but it _is_ BASIC) which could be extended by plug-in ROM modules > (Matix Operations, String Variables, Extended I/O, Plotter, Terminal > Emulator, etc all exist). It could take up to 16K bytes of RAM, had a > full-size QWERTY keybard and a 1-line 32 character display. Oh, and 4 > I/O slots. > > Is the only reason this is not classed as an 'early personal computer' > the fact that it says '9830 Calculator' on the nameplate? Was it aimed or marketed at the general computing market? Could it be easily used as a general-purpose computer? Peace... Sridhar From geoffr at zipcon.com Sun Apr 13 11:44:42 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.com (geoffr@zipcon.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Tandy 6000 (old xenix machine) needs rescuing... References: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B864@308server.308dole.com> Message-ID: <3e9622323681d3.78592797@zipcon.com> WAAH, why's it gotta be across the country :( > Right now it is in Malvern AR. Any takers, it will need to be picked up by > 4/15/2003. bunch of other tandy and PeeCee equipment also. > > Kelly From ravid at cox.net Sun Apr 13 11:44:55 2003 From: ravid at cox.net (Ravid Avrahamian) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: HP-85 HP-85B memory interface roms manuals for sale Message-ID: <003601c2fff8$446f1ca0$6502a8c0@ravidt20> Hi, I have few items for HP-85 that I would like to sell. I have a few of each: 16K Memory Modules, 128K Memory Modules, Serial interfaces, HPIB interfaces, Modems, Rom drawers with different ROMS, Manuals and software. I can ship internationally. I am located in California USA. To make an offer for an item/s or ask questions please Email ravid@iovega.com. I will not monitor this board for the next week or so. Please Email me. I also have a lot of other vintage computers, software, and manuals. (TRS-80, Atari, Apple, Commodore, IBM, HP, and more) Thanks. Ravid. From vance at neurotica.com Sun Apr 13 11:45:06 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: IBM Kingston Message-ID: I really wish IBM Kingston hadn't closed. That place was neat. Anyone here used to work there? Peace... Sridhar From rene at creative-computing.com Sun Apr 13 11:45:16 2003 From: rene at creative-computing.com (Rene Rodrigue - Creative Computing, Inc.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: DEC Network Equipment Up For Grabs Message-ID: <000e01c30034$674461e0$1e01000a@chloe> Hello, I received this distribution list address from a friend of a friend. I have the following equipment for free. Either come and pick it up or pay to have it shipped to you. Rene ******************* > 2 DECnis 600s fully populated (spare power supply, spare cards, mostly memory/CPU) Lan Cards/Wan Cards/FDDI/ATM in both MPC 1 Processor Several Adaptor Cables for WAN Cards > 2 DECnis 500s Lan/ Wan Cards MPC 11 Processor > 1 GigaSwitch ATM 5 Slot Fully Populated / Management Card / MMF Cards / Dual Power Supply > 2 DECconcentrator 500 Fully populated 1 is okay //// 1 Doesn't Power on but the cards are good A/B Ports on Management Card 2 Slave cards are all M Ports > 2 500Mhz Desktop Alphas (DEC Unix or OpenVMS) FDDI Cards / Enet Cards CD Rom / Floppy (Small Blue Desktop machine) > 1 InfoServer Tower (6 Slot CD for OpenVMS) > 2 Proteon ClamShell Routers Digital Rebranded as RouteAbout ES > Several CSU/DSUs These are not Modem Eliminators 56KB Mostly Cray // Can be setup Back to Back Thanks for looking. Rene From ProdFind at aol.com Sun Apr 13 11:45:29 2003 From: ProdFind at aol.com (ProdFind@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Printer Ribbon Source Message-ID: Apr 11/03 We are looking for 60 pieces obsolete printer ribbons IBM #1040920 for IBM printer 4772. We are desperate! Can you help? Thanks and regards Eric Sperwer Tel: (954) 438-6622 From odemir at metu.edu.tr Sun Apr 13 11:45:39 2003 From: odemir at metu.edu.tr (orhan ozdemir) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: HP79XX magnetic tape reader Message-ID: <200304111645.h3BGjeT27516@myra.cc.metu.edu.tr> Dear Sir, I have a hp7974A magnetic tape reader and now I can read/write data on a magnetic tape via gpib+code (by C++) with 1600 PE density. However, the written data cannot be read our another hp7970B tape reader due to the fact that It can read the data with 800 NRZI tape density. As far as I know, hp7970E series can read both. Is it possible to buy one of it? and did You know where can i buy one? Thank you. odemir@metu.edu.tr From vance at neurotica.com Sun Apr 13 11:45:50 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030411141609.078b4580@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: Check on http://pucc.princeton.edu/ It's ground zero for IBM mainframe culture right now. Other than the IBM Fora. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, Tom Uban wrote: > Does anyone know where 132 column (14x11) white (blank) fanfold > paper is still available? Bowater used to make it years ago, but > has since sold that business off... > > --tnx > --tom From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Sun Apr 13 11:46:01 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030411141609.078b4580@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20030411193805.36343.qmail@web20805.mail.yahoo.com> www.officedepot.com --- Tom Uban wrote: > Does anyone know where 132 column (14x11) white > (blank) fanfold > paper is still available? Bowater used to make it > years ago, but > has since sold that business off... > > --tnx > --tom From larry at laurelnet.com Sun Apr 13 11:46:12 2003 From: larry at laurelnet.com (Larry Laurel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper Message-ID: <9aee5fd4154e2ff1c05728f36638ec9716574cf9@bodekandrhodes.com> We take standard green-bar or blue-bar and print on the back side. Larry -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tom Uban Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 3:19 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper Does anyone know where 132 column (14x11) white (blank) fanfold paper is still available? Bowater used to make it years ago, but has since sold that business off... --tnx --tom From philip at awale.qc.ca Sun Apr 13 11:46:23 2003 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: more goodies? In-Reply-To: <26E3EC48949D134C94A1574B2C89466124F608@exchange2.slac.stanford.edu> Message-ID: On 11-Apr-2003 Hodgers, James wrote: > I have recently come across original -- disks only -- (5 1/4") of > Wordstar Pro 4.0, Turbo Pascal, What version of Turbo Pascal? ISTR that turbo pascal is now available for download... I might be interested in the WordStar and Tpascal disks... -Philip From fdebros at verizon.net Sun Apr 13 11:46:37 2003 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000 vs Decserver 5000 In-Reply-To: <200303120243.SAA09041@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <000001c300e8$270afcb0$6401a8c0@fred> Hi I have a bunch of these boxen, storage boxen with Ultrix included. Looks like the decserver runs serial to a VT only, no framebuffer. What other differences are there? Any good info source? I plan to get them going, so I will have to crack the pwd...something like starting in single user-mode...i lost the ref, anybody have a trick here? Fred From fdebros at verizon.net Sun Apr 13 11:46:47 2003 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: dec 5000 questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c30167$aa6411d0$6401a8c0@fred> For lord isildur maybe This is a hardware question: Whats the difference between a decstation 5000 and a decsystem 5000? The latter apparently has no graphics capability. On some of my decstation 5000/200 and /240, I have the add on turbo-graphics board -D and -F . these output to the screen with the 3-pin to 3-bnc cable like in the vlc4000. There is also a 3-pin to single bnc cable apparently for grayscale biz. But the cable that connects mouse and kbd via a db15 connector to my decstation also terminates with a single bnc connector. Is this another grayscale output (or b/w only) of the decstation? So why no signal there? Do I have to pull the graphics board to get console output via that db15 plug like in the Vaxstation 3100, where a spx graphics board will exclude the b/w output from the db15 plug? So you cant have it both ways, composite graphics and b/w terminal style simultaneously? Only either or? Thanks for help! Next Q will be howto start in single user mode in order to get new root pwd! fred From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Apr 13 11:53:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: IBM Kingston In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I really wish IBM Kingston hadn't closed. That place was neat. > Anyone here used to work there? You might try asking on the alt.folklore.computers newsgroup, there are a number of IBMers who post there. -brian. From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Apr 13 11:56:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Rusted out DECs (was: Toy Chevy's (was: Apple IIe for $700)) In-Reply-To: <20030413075140.30244.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> References: <000101c3015d$83049dd0$947ba8c0@piii933> <20030413075140.30244.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <20030413172322.GE64756@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Gary Dean Hildebrand, from writings of Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 02:51:40AM -0500: > Last comment on this thread, we'll get back to vintage DECS rather than > rustbuckets. My 11/34A is both a rustbucket and vintage DEC equipment. The BA(?) chasis was rusting and filled with spiders when I got it several years ago, and it hasn't improved much since them... of course, I did remove the boards and front panel, and did disassemble the PSU, but never got around to completely restoring the chasis and reassembling everything. At this point, this should probably just be considered a pile of spare parts that I might be willing to trade for whatever I need to get my 11/44 operational. :-( -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 13 11:59:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Macintosh System 7.5.x question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> Does anyone remember what the last update to System 7.5.x was? I'm in >> the process of getting my old PowerBook 540c (purchased used a few years >> ago to replace the 520c I wore out) setup to use as a 'typewriter', and >> noticed that I've got it running System 7.5.3. > >7.5.5, it's available from apple's support web site. There's also System >7.6.1 IIRC... Thanks, I'll have a look and see what I can find on their site. I think 7.5.3 must be the version that the Blackbirds shipped with. I remember my 520c had 7.1.x installed when I bought it new, but had a 7.5.x image on the Hard Drive so that you could install it. You don't really want to run 7.5.x on a 4MB Mac, so the first thing I did was buy a 16MB RAM expansion (for, about $600). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Apr 13 12:09:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa XL on eBay In-Reply-To: <20030413164506.66021.66715.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030413170653.52729.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> > From: Joe > > At 03:05 PM 4/12/03 -0400, you wrote: > >And I thought the economy was in the toilet. > > Only for the average citizen. The rich are richer > than ever thanks to Bush and administration (or > maybe I should say LACK of administration!) > > Joe You probably shouldn't say that, since it's wrong... Can we keep political commentary off this list? Especially mean-spirited partisan hate speech with no data to back it up? I want to hear about Classic Computers on this list. Not someone's partisan hatred. Thanks! Al From cb at mythtech.net Sun Apr 13 13:38:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II Message-ID: >Mine has just started having paper getting stuck on the "teeth roller" >underneath the larger one next to the green felt "hot" area. It needs a new >smaller roller cause worn out. There are a number of rollers that look like >this, how do I tell which one it is in order to order the right one? www.fixyourownprinter.com They sell a rebuild kit for the LJ2 that addresses the jamming on pickup. They also have a number of other kits available, for assorted common jamming problems with that printer series. -chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 13 15:39:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: ASR33 reader woes In-Reply-To: <005101c2fdfd$8bc98bf0$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> from "Dr. Charles E. Morris" at Apr 8, 3 01:34:52 pm Message-ID: > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > > >May I ask a very simple question. What machine are you using this with > (from the description below, I assume a PDP8). If it _is_ a PDP8, do you > have the reader control relay mod fitted correctly? If not, then you > _will_ drop characters I think. > > My computer is an 8/L. I do not have the relay fitted at all. After a > careful examination of the schematic and manuals, this relay only forces TTY > power on, in LINE mode (this is redundant if the TTY is already on and Ah. With the PDP8/e and PDP11s, there's a relay wired in series with the reader trip magnet (the one on top of the distributor unit at the rear right). It allows the computer to start and stop the reader, and in fact the read a character at a time. It's partly controlled in hardware, in that when the PDP derects an incoming character, it turns off the relay (stopping the reader). It's then turned on a again by software (presumably after said software ahs read the character). > >So what you're saying is that it sends the correct number of chracters, > but some of them are corrupted to 0's? > > Yes, when an error occurs while printing the test tape I can "hear" the > nonprinting character being sent to the typing unit (it "jumps" but nothing Do you know if it's corrupted to 0's, or if odd bits are mangled? > appears on the paper) and the next consecutive char is then printed > correctly. > > >Either your read pins are misaligned (they should come through the middle > of the tape holes -- > check this), or the contacts are sometimes not making properly. > > Agreed. They look centered to me (but what IS the definition of "centered" > i.e. at what point in the read cycle? The tape and pins do not seem Presumably they must be entirely clear of the holes in the tape as they come up through the tape. > perfectly stationary with respect to one another during the read cycle.) > The manual shows that the sprocket wheel should be rotated forward to take > up the slack against the detent at which point the pins are centered in the Could it bee too much free play here? In other words the sproket is not being held firmly during the read cycle? Check the detent adjustment?? > Who's Heath Robbinson? I always liked Rube Goldberg's inventions... Heath Robbinson was an English artist who produced drawings of such inventions. Over here the term 'Heath Robbinson Idea/Invention/Device/...' is used to describe anything that somewhat crazily designed.... > > >3) focus a camera on the reader mechanism. Set the aperture appropriately > for the flashgun. Make the room dark, hold the shutter open on B, let it run > 4) When the flash fires, close the shutter, turn everything off > 5) Develop the film and hope that it shows you what the problem is. > -tony > > Sounds awfully complicated. Perhaps I can do this with my Sony digital > camera if it has a sync input! This depends on the length of delay from the sync input to actually taking the picture (this may not be that short!). The advantage of using a flashgun in a darkroom is that the trigger time _is_ short. That's quite apart from the fact that I am alergic to digital cameras... -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 13 16:47:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Update: Re: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" In-Reply-To: <55B44D8E-6DBB-11D7-ABF4-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > BTW, my spellchecker *really* wants you to respell "university" ;^) Would it prefer "unaversity"? (the FBI spelling that led to the naming of "the unabomber") From vance at neurotica.com Sun Apr 13 16:51:02 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Items For Free ??? In-Reply-To: <6131507.1050010026244.JavaMail.nobody@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Message-ID: What kind of project is it? Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, JunkMale wrote: > Hi > Just joined the list and came across this in the October archives from Rich Beaudry. Sorry but I don't know if I can contact you off list. > > I know the posting is a bit old but I thought it would not hurt to ask. > > I am looking for one or more IBM 3270 Microchannel cards for a pet project of mine. If you (or anyone else) still have this one card available I would be happy to pay the shipping costs and even offer a couple of dollars for your trouble if you like. > > I could use more than one if anyone else has any that they are willing to part with. > > Thanks for your time, > Michael From vance at neurotica.com Sun Apr 13 16:51:11 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: DEC Network Equipment Up For Grabs In-Reply-To: <000e01c30034$674461e0$1e01000a@chloe> Message-ID: Where are you located? Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, Rene Rodrigue - Creative Computing, Inc. wrote: > Hello, > I received this distribution list address from a friend of > a friend. I have the following equipment for free. Either come > and pick it up or pay to have it shipped to you. > > Rene > ******************* > > > 2 DECnis 600s fully populated (spare power supply, spare cards, mostly > memory/CPU) > Lan Cards/Wan Cards/FDDI/ATM in both > MPC 1 Processor > Several Adaptor Cables for WAN Cards > > 2 DECnis 500s > Lan/ Wan Cards MPC 11 Processor > > 1 GigaSwitch ATM 5 Slot > Fully Populated / Management Card / MMF Cards / Dual Power Supply > > 2 DECconcentrator 500 Fully populated > 1 is okay //// 1 Doesn't Power on but the cards are good > A/B Ports on Management Card > 2 Slave cards are all M Ports > > 2 500Mhz Desktop Alphas (DEC Unix or OpenVMS) > FDDI Cards / Enet Cards > CD Rom / Floppy (Small Blue Desktop machine) > > 1 InfoServer Tower (6 Slot CD for OpenVMS) > > 2 Proteon ClamShell Routers > Digital Rebranded as RouteAbout ES > > Several CSU/DSUs > These are not Modem Eliminators > 56KB Mostly Cray // Can be setup Back to Back > > > Thanks for looking. > > Rene From vance at neurotica.com Sun Apr 13 16:51:21 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000 vs Decserver 5000 In-Reply-To: <000001c300e8$270afcb0$6401a8c0@fred> Message-ID: No difference at all. You can put a framebuffer in a DECsystem 5000 and it becomes a DECstation 5000. When you bought a CPU upgrade from DEC, you would get two faceplates. One that says DECstation and one that says DECsystem. They're MIPS-based. If you tell me what model it is, I can give you more information. You don't need to run Ultrix on them. If you want to run a more modern OS, you can run NetBSD/pmax on them. I have a *lot* of these machines. They're pretty nice. I've run them for years at home. You should just be able to do something like boot -s #/vmunix or something like that. Check http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/pmax/ and click on Supported Hardware or something like that. It should have more information than you would even need. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 12 Apr 2003, Fred deBros wrote: > Hi > I have a bunch of these boxen, storage boxen with Ultrix included. > Looks like the decserver runs serial to a VT only, no framebuffer. What > other differences are there? > Any good info source? > I plan to get them going, so I will have to crack the pwd...something > like starting in single user-mode...i lost the ref, anybody have a trick > here? > > > Fred From vance at neurotica.com Sun Apr 13 16:51:30 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: IBM Kingston In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks. Will do. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > I really wish IBM Kingston hadn't closed. That place was neat. > > Anyone here used to work there? > > You might try asking on the alt.folklore.computers newsgroup, there are > a number of IBMers who post there. > > -brian. From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sun Apr 13 16:51:40 2003 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: IBM Kingston In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030413152213.00a93570@mail.n.ml.org> Hey buddy, my dad used to work there for a subcontractor called Geiger on the Mainframe team which then turned into the power parallel housings design team in 1994. This group was in charge of creating the specs and "1st drafts" of the new housings for the units produced 1992-1996/7. The whole campus was pretty cool. Too bad security sucked so bad that I could get through the security card doors and checkpoints without ID. Wasn't that the campus where an ex employee got caught stealing over 85 million worth of equipment? The test labs for the power-parallel systems were pretty damned cool. I snuck a walk through once on a Saturday. It's like sneaking into a toy store after hours and looking at all the things that would make you drool. -John Boffemmyer IV At 08:36 AM 4/11/2003, you wrote: >I really wish IBM Kingston hadn't closed. That place was neat. Anyone >here used to work there? > >Peace... Sridhar ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 13 16:51:50 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: > God bless you John! > > Mine has just started having paper getting stuck on the "teeth roller" > underneath the larger one next to the green felt "hot" area. It needs a new > smaller roller cause worn out. There are a number of rollers that look like > this, how do I tell which one it is in order to order the right one? Take a look at the PrinterWorks web site (http://www.printerworks.com/). They have exploded diagrams of the printer (you have an 'SX engine') with all the parts identified. You should be able to get a part number for each roller. -tony From pdm4606 at sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 13 16:51:59 2003 From: pdm4606 at sbcglobal.net (Paul Mika) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Macintosh System 7.5.x question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: System 7.5???? I went with 7.6 and my p'book worked quite well. From oldcomp at cox.net Sun Apr 13 16:52:10 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: HH drives References: <3E98F035.18506D5E@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E99D9AA.5020901@cox.net> I have had a number of requests for this so I thought it would be easiest to put it up on a web page for anyone interested. If you are worried about the copyright, send your money to the address provided in the software! ;-) Spinrite is available for download at http://members.cox.net/oldcomp2/ save this file to a bootable floppy and run it from the command prompt. It has been at least 10-12 years since I have used it, so I can't remember the details. Just read through the menus to see what it can do. Good luck! This link will be available for at least 7 days, but not much longer. Download it now if you think you will ever need it! -Bryan From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Sun Apr 13 17:12:00 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: IBM Kingston In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030413180938.026a90f8@pop-server> At 08:36 AM 4/11/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I really wish IBM Kingston hadn't closed. That place was neat. Anyone >here used to work there? I worked for IBM in Poughkeepsie but spent some time in the Kingston plant. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Apr 13 17:28:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Update: Re: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 04:42 PM, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: >>> Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS >> BTW, my spellchecker *really* wants you to respell "university" >> ;^) > > Would it prefer "unaversity"? (the FBI spelling that led to the naming > of > "the unabomber") Links? That's just too cool to leave alone.... Doc From aeg at paradise.net.nz Sun Apr 13 17:49:01 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: HH drives In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030413104107.0307ae18@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <4D248548-6E02-11D7-A9E4-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> On Sunday, Apr 13, 2003, at 21:50 Pacific/Auckland, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > I've used a number of Wyse 286 & 386 machines in the past (as > servers). Early machines did not have a BIOS configuration program > built in - you had to boot a setup floppy. (I *might* still have one > kicking about somewhere in the old discs at the office, if you need > it; might also have some manuals.) If the battery went, then you need > to set it up again. This machine has no BIOS that I can interrogate (I got the date from running scandisk from a later version of MSDOS) - On boot-up (using the floppy) it is asking for a Setup Disk (this could be what you mention above). I don't have this disk so if you can find it I'd like a copy... > > They mostly used fixed disc parameters, from which you selected the > one closest to your drive, and with no "user definable" mode. I also > had a lot of disc failures in those days. (I remember one > particularly memorable day trying to read that one last sector off a > dead disc on an old machine, in desperation dropping the machine 3", > upside down, timed exactly right - and it read it!) Ouch! > > Discs were usually st306? Three cables from a controller to the discs > - one shared between drives, one each per drive. Floppy drives run > from same controller. Seperate cards for Parallel+Serial (or parallel > + 2 serial) video, etc. Mine has an st-251-1 and an unbranded model installed and there appears to be one controller for both the hard drives and the floppy disks. It also has a 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy drives installed. Internally the machine is in good condition but from the outside it looks as if it has had a hard life. I was trying to get it up and running to use it as a test bed for other MFM controlled disks (as it has two HD bays and 3 FD bays). > > Has yours got that natty (but impractical) LCD display on the front? Yes! What was that for? It doesn't appear to be working at the moment (it does power up) - I am assuming that once the Setup disk is run this might come back to life? > > regards > > Rob. Thanks for the info Alan From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 13 17:54:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Update: Re: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > > Would it prefer "unaversity"? (the FBI spelling that led to the naming > > of > > "the unabomber") > Links? That's just too cool to leave alone.... Hmmm. Don't have any good documentation. The FBI had a press conference when they first started calling him "the Unabomber", before they knew of Ted Kaczynski. In the background was a blackboard, on which the largest writing was the word "Unaversity". In a LATER press conference, they started talking about "university and airline bomber", possibly as a backpedaling of their previous spelling error. From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Apr 13 18:14:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: HH drives & DRDOS In-Reply-To: <2b.3d6875f4.2bca72ca@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030413161153.055e7160@mail.zipcon.net> DRDOS is pretty much compatible with MS/PCdos although on some of hte newer versions it allows long finelanes, like DOS 7 (part of win95/etc) At 03:59 AM 4/13/03 -0400, you wrote: >There is another clue in this. I thought it booted DRDOS from the first >message. > >I am not really familiar with DRDOS but I suspect a disk formatted under that >would be different from formatting under MS or PCDOS. > >Do check your BIOS settings and battery. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR From marvin at rain.org Sun Apr 13 19:24:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives References: <3E98F035.18506D5E@rain.org> <3E99D9AA.5020901@cox.net> Message-ID: <3E99FF36.ABE2E6B0@rain.org> Pirating is not something that should be condoned on this list. SpinRite is NOT shareware which is what you are suggesting by your comment. Bryan Blackburn wrote: > > I have had a number of requests for this so I thought it would be > easiest to put it up on a web page for anyone interested. If you are > worried about the copyright, send your money to the address provided in > the software! ;-) > > Spinrite is available for download at http://members.cox.net/oldcomp2/ > save this file to a bootable floppy and run it from the command prompt. > It has been at least 10-12 years since I have used it, so I can't > remember the details. Just read through the menus to see what it can do. > Good luck! > > This link will be available for at least 7 days, but not much longer. > Download it now if you think you will ever need it! > > -Bryan From cb at mythtech.net Sun Apr 13 19:38:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives Message-ID: >Pirating is not something that should be condoned on this list. I don't want to start a battle, so I'm not going to comment beyond this email... but... shouldn't "pirating" be something that IS condoned on this list? At least under the idea of "abandonware". After all, without some degree of software piracy, it is highly unlikely that a good chunk of the hardware this list is interested in would have any useful software available to it. I very much support the idea of abondonware, and I would think that idea is very much in this list's interest. However, it is in many cases still piracy. -chris From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Apr 13 19:54:00 2003 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Mac Classic References: Message-ID: <00c001c30220$0e2969f0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Have a mac classic that I gave to one of the local kids a few months back. Apparently a visiting friend was fiddling with it and has somehow gotten it into magnify mode. IIRC, it's system 7.something. Can't figure out how to turn it off. It's on maximum magnfiy apparently, can only see a very tiny part of anything, even a single word takes more than the entire screen which makes it real hard to use the GUI. Is there a keyboard shortcut that will turn the $%^& thing off?? Cheers Geoff in OZ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Apr 13 20:19:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: New Toy! :-) Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030413211652.4e9f0ca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found another HP 1000! Third one in three weeks. I think this one is a keeper. Got ALL the cables including the AC power cables, the interface panel, the CPU (2113E with option 065) and 1 MW of memory, boot loader ROMs for HP 264x terminal, CS-80 hard drives and HP 79xx disk drives, plenty of interface cards and a HP 12979 I/O Expander chassis. Best of all, this one was untampered with so everything was there and where it was suppsoed to be and I was able to mark where all the cables, etc all went to. The only thing that I've found wrong with it so far is two broken switches on the front panel from where they kicked it off the truck! It had a 7914 hard drive attached but I left it behind. I've never found one worth taking home. Pictures at . Joe From rborsuk at colourfull.com Sun Apr 13 20:27:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Closet sale - some stuff to go. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey all, I'm cleaning out some closets around the house and I have the following available. Everything is at best offer and must go. Wife is nagging about the house. Here's the stuff (Some classic - some not so classic) SGI - Onyx boards IO4 (030-0646-105) - w/ vcam also SCSI differential, IOADAPT, and SCSI SE Power board - (030-0263-004) MC3 memory board (030-0613-006) with 8 sticks of memory. Two - drive trays with Seagate ST15230WD drives on them Cubix ERS-II System (Take all or parts)(Great info is on the Cubix web site) Chassis with power supply and covers. Single Board 486 - BC4035A Single Board Pentium - BC5133 Paypal is proudly accepted. If your in Michigan you can pick up (or I can ship). This is the newer stuff. I have some classic stuff that will come out the more I clean. Please respond to me off list. Thanks Rob From rborsuk at colourfull.com Sun Apr 13 20:30:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Mac Classic In-Reply-To: <00c001c30220$0e2969f0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: <62C7B494-6E18-11D7-8C59-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Reboot while holding down shift to turn off extensions. Rob On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 08:50 PM, Geoff Roberts wrote: > Have a mac classic that I gave to one of the local kids a few months > back. Apparently a visiting friend was fiddling with it and > has somehow gotten it into magnify mode. IIRC, it's system > 7.something. Can't figure out how to turn it off. It's on maximum > magnfiy apparently, can only see a very tiny part of anything, even a > single word takes more than the entire screen which makes it > real hard to use the GUI. > Is there a keyboard shortcut that will turn the $%^& thing off?? > > Cheers > > Geoff in OZ From pietstan at rogers.com Sun Apr 13 21:03:00 2003 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: CMD CDI-4000 Message-ID: <3E9A1600.6050408@rogers.com> I was shuffling some of my collected VaxenStuff, and in the 4000 I found a couple of CMD CDI-4000 DSSI to SCSI bridge cards..... A yahoo and google search turned up Silicon Image's web site, with a hanging link to a supposed user's manual... :-{( Does anyone know of a real (working) link to a manual?? Failing that, does anyone know what jumper / ribbon cable does what? Thanks..... From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Apr 13 21:34:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030414030038.GG64756@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe chris, from writings of Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 08:35:55PM -0400: > but... shouldn't "pirating" be something that IS condoned on this list? > At least under the idea of "abandonware". After all, without some degree Definitely! If software is needed and no longer available from the manufacturer or other "legal" sources, then, why should it be considered wrong to duplicate it for others who need it? To not make such software available, in many cases, would mean that many classic computers would become unusable and we couldn't preserve them properly. > of software piracy, it is highly unlikely that a good chunk of the > hardware this list is interested in would have any useful software > available to it. Which is further proof that you're correct in asking your original question and should not be flamed. > I very much support the idea of abondonware, and I would think that idea > is very much in this list's interest. However, it is in many cases still > piracy. I like the position that DEC, and some other companies, took on computers being used by hobbyists who had illegal posession of unlicenced operating systems, etc.: "just look the other way... those hobbyists, who aren't costing us anything, and who can't afford our software now, may grow to like our products even more and turn out to be paying customers some day when they work for, or have, a business that can buy our software and hardware." -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From marvin at rain.org Sun Apr 13 22:17:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives References: <20030414030038.GG64756@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3E9A27A4.D6FA870D@rain.org> Good grief, talk about changing the subject. My comment was based on making SpinRite available to listmembers at no charge. I doubt anyone here is stupid enough to think that SpinRite is not a readily available commercial product. "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > Quothe chris, from writings of Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 08:35:55PM -0400: > > but... shouldn't "pirating" be something that IS condoned on this list? > > At least under the idea of "abandonware". After all, without some degree > > Definitely! If software is needed and no longer available from the > manufacturer or other "legal" sources, then, why should it be > considered wrong to duplicate it for others who need it? To not > make such software available, in many cases, would mean that many > classic computers would become unusable and we couldn't preserve > them properly. > > > of software piracy, it is highly unlikely that a good chunk of the > > hardware this list is interested in would have any useful software > > available to it. > > Which is further proof that you're correct in asking your original > question and should not be flamed. > > > I very much support the idea of abondonware, and I would think that idea > > is very much in this list's interest. However, it is in many cases still > > piracy. > > I like the position that DEC, and some other companies, took on > computers being used by hobbyists who had illegal posession of > unlicenced operating systems, etc.: "just look the other way... those > hobbyists, who aren't costing us anything, and who can't afford our > software now, may grow to like our products even more and turn out to > be paying customers some day when they work for, or have, a business > that can buy our software and hardware." > > -- > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From oldcomp at cox.net Sun Apr 13 22:47:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives References: <3E98F035.18506D5E@rain.org> <3E99D9AA.5020901@cox.net> <3E99FF36.ABE2E6B0@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E9A2EC1.7040707@cox.net> I'm not suggesting it is! What I am subtly suggesting, is that if you think the company is still in business, or would still recognize the product name, send them a check. More power to you! I stopped using the software when the hardware it was specifically designed to work with became obsolete, well over a decade ago. (Probably about a year or two after the company went out of business.) -Bryan >Spinrite is NOT shareware which is what you are suggesting by your comment. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 13 22:57:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: FA HP disk drive and computer manuals (9826, 9836, 9122 more) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030411181849.3be746d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030414035501.12694.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > Also listed a NEW unassembled Heathkit kit on there if anyone is > intersted. Joe, Hate to contradict the last sentence of that Heathkit auction, but I have one of those exact same ultrasonic books in just as nice a shape. I got it from the the same ex-boss as my H-11 (along with a couple of unassembled H-11 periperal cards). It's pretty cool. Dunno if I'd ever sell mine or not. -ethan From pietstan at rogers.com Sun Apr 13 22:58:01 2003 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:58 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives References: <3E98F035.18506D5E@rain.org> <3E99D9AA.5020901@cox.net> <3E99FF36.ABE2E6B0@rain.org> <3E9A2EC1.7040707@cox.net> Message-ID: <3E9A3102.7040307@rogers.com> Check grc.com for information on SpinRite 5...... It appears that Gibson Research is back... Bryan Blackburn wrote: > I'm not suggesting it is! What I am subtly suggesting, is that if you > think the company is still in business, or would still recognize the > product name, send them a check. More power to you! I stopped using the > software when the hardware it was specifically designed to work with > became obsolete, well over a decade ago. (Probably about a year or two > after the company went out of business.) > > -Bryan > >> Spinrite is NOT shareware which is what you are suggesting by your >> comment. From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Apr 13 23:10:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: Bryan Blackburn's message of "Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:45:05 -0700" References: <3E98F035.18506D5E@rain.org> <3E99D9AA.5020901@cox.net> <3E99FF36.ABE2E6B0@rain.org> <3E9A2EC1.7040707@cox.net> Message-ID: <200304140407.h3E476OT001276@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Bryan Blackburn wrote: > I'm not suggesting it is! What I am subtly suggesting, is that if > you think the company is still in business, or would still recognize > the product name, send them a check. More power to you! I stopped > using the software when the hardware it was specifically designed to > work with became obsolete, well over a decade ago. (Probably about a > year or two after the company went out of business.) Gibson Research is still in business, and still sells Spinrite. http://grc.com/spinrite.htm -Frank McConnell From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Apr 13 23:26:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [Fwd: [swap] FS: BCS-MAC newsletters] Message-ID: <3E9A37D0.3070300@eoni.com> From a Mac Swap list. Please contact NeptuneMidheaven@ao;.com for further info. Jim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [swap] FS: BCS-MAC newsletters Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:01:54 EDT From: NeptuneMidheaven@aol.com To: (LEM Swap List) Would like to see these go to a good home rather than the trash. Eight vintage editions of "The Active Window" BCS-MAC newsletter (Boston Computer Society Macintosh Users' Group Magazine). In mint condition. 7/87 12/87 2/88 5/88 6/88 7/88 10/88 1/89 How about $3.00 for all & media mail shipping (weight 2+ pounds) from 02368. Paypal verified (non cc only) NeptuneMidheaven@aol.com Ebay ID: Cattastro -- LEM-Swap is sponsored by and... 123Inkjets.com Support Low End Mac LEM-Swap list info: --> AOL users, remove "mailto:" Send list messages to: To unsubscribe, email: For digest mode, email: Subscription questions: Archive: Join the SwapChat list: --------------------------------------------------------------- >The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com --------------------------------------------------------------- . From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Apr 13 23:27:01 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Mac Classic References: <00c001c30220$0e2969f0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: <3E9A3835.4030708@eoni.com> Geoff Roberts wrote: >Is there a keyboard shortcut that will turn the $%^& thing off?? > try "apple -" From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Apr 14 00:20:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <3E9A3102.7040307@rogers.com> References: <3E98F035.18506D5E@rain.org> <3E99D9AA.5020901@cox.net> <3E99FF36.ABE2E6B0@rain.org> <3E9A2EC1.7040707@cox.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030413222440.02d80c90@mail.zipcon.net> Gibson Research never went away :) At 11:54 PM 4/13/03 -0400, you wrote: >Check grc.com for information on SpinRite 5...... > >It appears that Gibson Research is back... > >Bryan Blackburn wrote: > >>I'm not suggesting it is! What I am subtly suggesting, is that if you >>think the company is still in business, or would still recognize the >>product name, send them a check. More power to you! I stopped using the >>software when the hardware it was specifically designed to work with >>became obsolete, well over a decade ago. (Probably about a year or two >>after the company went out of business.) >>-Bryan >> >>>Spinrite is NOT shareware which is what you are suggesting by your comment. From donm at cts.com Mon Apr 14 00:33:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: HH drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote: > On Sunday, Apr 13, 2003, at 16:45 Pacific/Auckland, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote: > >> Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked > >> and now physically damaged? > >> > >> I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive > >> characteristics... are they all dead? > > > > Have you gone into the BIOS to see what the settings are for the > > drives? Does the clock/calendar work properly? If not, the > > battery may be dead and settings incorrect. > > > > - don > > > The BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I > can read the partition table and the attributes of the disk. > A small victory: Through persistence I can now read the data in the > extended partition but it is quite unreliable (sometimes reads > sometimes not) - the disk makes a _lot_ of noise and quite obviously > wants to be left alone... > Not to be outdone I will try Spinrite. > > Another question - is it worth trying to save? Has anyone got any > information on Wyse Technologies machines? I fear that I cannot shed any light on the subject other than I have heard of them. Basically a PC clone, I'd guess. - don > The google thing didn't bring up much other than another collector > stating it was a 386 server??? > > Thanks > > Alan From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Apr 14 01:05:01 2003 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Mac Classic References: <00c001c30220$0e2969f0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <3E9A3835.4030708@eoni.com> Message-ID: <02d901c3024b$735b9390$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 1:55 PM Subject: Re: Mac Classic > Geoff Roberts wrote: > > >Is there a keyboard shortcut that will turn the $%^& thing off?? > > > try "apple -" I think I tried that already but I'll give it another go. Or is this a hold while rebooting one as well? Holding down the shift key while booting made no difference. And it's apparently System 6.something. the Apple Menu icon on the left top of the display almost fills the screen, and is alternating between that icon and another which looks vaguely like a screen with an exclamation mark. I'm running out of keyboard combinations to try. Geoff in Oz From oldcomp at cox.net Mon Apr 14 02:01:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives References: <3E98F035.18506D5E@rain.org> <3E99D9AA.5020901@cox.net> <3E99FF36.ABE2E6B0@rain.org> <3E9A2EC1.7040707@cox.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030413222440.02d80c90@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3E9A5C19.6080005@cox.net> That's only ONE more time that I've been wrong! But it's okay, I can take it. >Snif< -Bryan Geoff Reed wrote: > Gibson Research never went away :) From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Apr 14 03:50:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <3E99FF36.ABE2E6B0@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E6CC174.3084.10DD4E67@localhost> Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone forever come up on the list. For the most part almost all old computer collectors are using programs illegally. Spinrite made their money off this version back when MFM and RLL drives were still current. They no longer provide it and haven't seen fit to offer it to PD. I have no problem with some small programmer still supplying AND supporting a vintage program that is of use but there are a thousand others sitting on a program which they won't put into public domain due to not giving a shit about the end user. Why is there not an similar outcry about companies like Lotus or Borland that put out products that were obsoleted because of the Y2K only 5 years after they were issued. They knew damn well it was coming. I won't even touch on the liscensing aspect that the software giants use to avoid responsability for crap they issue. Is it any wonder that so many are cynical about "piracy" The days of "buttonware" and voluntary payment are long past precisely because of these pigs. I will always be fair to the small programmers but for most of the large companies it's tit for tat. Apple and a few others do the decent thing but they are the exceptions not the rule. Lawrence On 13 Apr 2003, , Marvin Johnston wrote: > Pirating is not something that should be condoned on this > list. SpinRite is NOT shareware which is what you are > suggesting by your comment. > > Bryan Blackburn wrote: > > > > I have had a number of requests for this so I thought it > > would be easiest to put it up on a web page for anyone > > interested. If you are worried about the copyright, send > > your money to the address provided in the software! ;-) > > > > Spinrite is available for download at > > http://members.cox.net/oldcomp2/ save this file to a > > bootable floppy and run it from the command prompt. It has > > been at least 10-12 years since I have used it, so I can't > > remember the details. Just read through the menus to see > > what it can do. Good luck! > > > > This link will be available for at least 7 days, but not > > much longer. Download it now if you think you will ever > > need it! > > > > -Bryan lgwalker@ mts.net From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Apr 14 04:54:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: dec 5000 questions In-Reply-To: <000001c30167$aa6411d0$6401a8c0@fred>; from fdebros@verizon.net on Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 04:52:04 %z References: <000001c30167$aa6411d0$6401a8c0@fred> Message-ID: <20030414081916.GG1359@oblina> On 2003.04.13 04:52 Fred deBros wrote: > Whats the difference between a decstation 5000 and a decsystem 5000? The nameplate and that the DECsystem comes without framebuffer. If you add one later, the DECsystem becomes a DECstation. > But the cable that connects mouse and kbd via a db15 connector to my > decstation also terminates with a single bnc connector. > Is this another grayscale output (or b/w only) of the decstation? No. That cable comes from a VAXstation. The "right" DECstation cable has no BNC connector. The only way to get graphics on that machine is via a Turbochannel card. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Apr 14 05:47:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Mac Classic In-Reply-To: <02d901c3024b$735b9390$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: <221E4658-6E66-11D7-9FAB-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> If the magnification thing is a program, you might be able to force quit it. Hit option-open apple-escape and then click "Force Quit", or if you can't see the window, hitting enter should press the button. The only other thing I can think of would be to boot off a floppy and reinstall the OS. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 02:02 AM, Geoff Roberts wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 1:55 PM > Subject: Re: Mac Classic > > >> Geoff Roberts wrote: >> >>> Is there a keyboard shortcut that will turn the $%^& thing off?? >>> >> try "apple -" > > I think I tried that already but I'll give it another go. > Or is this a hold while rebooting one as well? > > Holding down the shift key while booting made no difference. > And it's apparently System 6.something. > the Apple Menu icon on the left top of the display almost fills the > screen, and is > alternating between that icon and another which looks vaguely like a > screen with an > exclamation mark. I'm running out of keyboard combinations to try. > > Geoff in Oz From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 14 07:19:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <3E9A3102.7040307@rogers.com> References: <3E98F035.18506D5E@rain.org> <3E99D9AA.5020901@cox.net> <3E99FF36.ABE2E6B0@rain.org> <3E9A2EC1.7040707@cox.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030414081317.4897303c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I don't think it ever went away. I've been visiting his site for years to catch up on the latest (and UNBIASED) info on firewalls, spyware, etc. I use his routinely LeakTest to test my firewall. Even if you're not intersted in Spinrite, take a look at his site. There's lots of good info on there. Joe At 11:54 PM 4/13/03 -0400, you wrote: +>Check grc.com for information on SpinRite 5...... > >It appears that Gibson Research is back... From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 14 07:19:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: <3E9A41FF.3090309@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030414080624.489739f2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:07 PM 4/13/03 -0700, Jim wrote: > >I have a highly original late production XT, with the 640k system board, >720k hh floppy, 360k hh floppy, and full height IBM 20mb hard drive. >Interesting features include a Y cable to power both floppy drives from >the PSU connector (Y cable has black wires, and a cloth tag with IBM >part number 6480173). Also, the 720k drive has a plain blue eject >button. The 3.5" drives from the PS/2 series were labelled 1.44m or >2.88m as appropriate. Yes, that sounds exactly like the drive in this machine. The 360k drive has an asterisk on it, just like >on the optional AT 360k drive. Apparently the IBM convention for 5.25" >drives was that if it was a full height floppy, drive then it was 360k, >if it was a half height drive it was assumed to be 1.2M, unless it had >an asterisk, then it was 360k. This 360K drive only has IBM marked on it. But I have seen a number of external drives with the asterisk on them. The X drives for the IBM P70s all seem to be marked that way. Thanks for the info. Joe From cb at mythtech.net Mon Apr 14 07:55:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Mac Classic Message-ID: >Have a mac classic that I gave to one of the local kids a few months >back. Apparently a visiting friend was fiddling with it and >has somehow gotten it into magnify mode. IIRC, it's system 7.something. >Can't figure out how to turn it off. It's on maximum >magnfiy apparently, can only see a very tiny part of anything, even a >single word takes more than the entire screen which makes it >real hard to use the GUI. >Is there a keyboard shortcut that will turn the $%^& thing off?? They have accidentally activated CloseView, a control panel designed to magnify the screen for people with vision problems. To deactivate it, type Command-Option-O (hold the command key, that's the cloverleaf, apple key, the option key, and the letter O all at the same time). To permanantly disable it, remove the CloseView icon from the Control Panels folder and reboot the Mac. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Mon Apr 14 07:59:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Mac Classic Message-ID: >Is there a keyboard shortcut that will turn the $%^& thing off?? Sorry, I said Command-Option-O, but what you may in fact want is Command-Option-X. Command-Option-O toggles CloseView on and off, and Command-Option-X toggles the magnification on and off. I don't remember if turning off CloseView will ALSO turn off the magnification, or if they are two different abilities. In either case, to permanantly disable it, you still should remove the CloseView control panel from the Control Panels folder and reboot. -chris From jamesl at bestweb.net Mon Apr 14 09:58:00 2003 From: jamesl at bestweb.net (James E. LaBarre) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's In-Reply-To: <20030413011715.GD64756@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20030412163846.1960.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <000101c3014e$d43cb110$947ba8c0@piii933> <20030413011715.GD64756@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3E9ACBFB.6050200@bestweb.net> R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Erik S. Klein, from writings of Sat, Apr 12, 2003 at 04:54:17PM -0700: > >>Gary Dean Hildebrand writes: >> >> >>>the winning bidder probably has several Corvettes too -- and all they >> >>are > is a plastic Chevy. >> >>Bite your tongue, heathen! :) > > > Hey, isn't a Corvette a Chevy that isn't strong enough to move around > with a steel body? I heard they had to use fiberglass to make it > capable of reasonable performance for a Chevy. The explanation I've heard was that the production numbers on the Corvette were too small to make stamped body panels cost effective. Apparently for smaller runs, fiberglass molding is cheaper. Wouldn't know what production numbers are now, and if the cost factors are the same, but I'm sure that there'd be a big outcry from purists if GM tried to go to metal bodies. From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Apr 14 10:37:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's References: <20030412163846.1960.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <000101c3014e$d43cb110$947ba8c0@piii933> <20030413011715.GD64756@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3E9ACBFB.6050200@bestweb.net> Message-ID: <000801c3029a$a7b85340$0400fea9@game> At least the fiberglass keeps them from rusting, saving quite a few of the cars from the rust heap unlike other cars of their era. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James E. LaBarre" To: Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 10:55 AM Subject: Re: OT: Toy Chevy's > R. D. Davis wrote: > > Quothe Erik S. Klein, from writings of Sat, Apr 12, 2003 at 04:54:17PM -0700: > > > >>Gary Dean Hildebrand writes: > >> > >> > >>>the winning bidder probably has several Corvettes too -- and all they > >> > >>are > is a plastic Chevy. > >> > >>Bite your tongue, heathen! :) > > > > > > Hey, isn't a Corvette a Chevy that isn't strong enough to move around > > with a steel body? I heard they had to use fiberglass to make it > > capable of reasonable performance for a Chevy. > > The explanation I've heard was that the production numbers on the > Corvette were too small to make stamped body panels cost effective. > Apparently for smaller runs, fiberglass molding is cheaper. Wouldn't > know what production numbers are now, and if the cost factors are the > same, but I'm sure that there'd be a big outcry from purists if GM tried > to go to metal bodies. From marvin at rain.org Mon Apr 14 11:10:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives References: <3E6CC174.3084.10DD4E67@localhost> Message-ID: <3E9ADCDD.B689413B@rain.org> Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone > forever come up on the list. For the most part almost > all old computer collectors are using programs illegally. > Spinrite made their money off this version back when > MFM and RLL drives were still current. They no longer > provide it and haven't seen fit to offer it to PD. Whoa boy, I *will* speak up when this listserver starts publicly doing things that are not in the best interests of the classic computer community. We are talking about software that is still a viable commercial product (although granted, it appears to be an older version.) Trying to trash the reputation of this hobby is not something that I will be a part of, and I *will* say something. Before you start saying they (GRC) no longer provides it, where did you come up with that information??? http://grc.com/default.htm still has an announcement prominently offering SpinRite in their top banner. From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Apr 14 12:12:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <3E9ADCDD.B689413B@rain.org> References: <3E6CC174.3084.10DD4E67@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030414124736.02858638@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Marvin Johnston may have mentioned these words: >Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > > Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone > > forever come up on the list. For the most part almost > > all old computer collectors are using programs illegally. > > Spinrite made their money off this version back when > > MFM and RLL drives were still current. They no longer > > provide it and haven't seen fit to offer it to PD. > >Whoa boy, I *will* speak up when this listserver starts publicly doing >things that are not in the best interests of the classic computer >community. We are talking about software that is still a viable >commercial product (although granted, it appears to be an older >version.) Trying to trash the reputation of this hobby is not something >that I will be a part of, and I *will* say something. > >Before you start saying they (GRC) no longer provides it, where did you >come up with that information??? http://grc.com/default.htm still has >an announcement prominently offering SpinRite in their top banner. Here's what the owners manual for SpinRite 5.0 says: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System Requirements SpinRite operates with 100% IBM-compatible PC, XT, AT, PS/1 and PS/2 personal computer systems equipped with at least one diskette drive, 350K of free RAM, Monochrome, EGA or VGA display adapter (not CGA) and DOS version 2.1 or later. NOTE: SpinRite operates with most hard and floppy disk data storage devices and technologies. However, some storage devices are inherently different in design from the hard drives found in standard IBMcompatible systems. As a result, SpinRite cannot operate upon some hardware storage devices. For specific information, please see the "Known Incompatibilities" appendix. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Now, if one were to have some older MFM/RLL hardware to test the latest version on, one would be able to let us know _if_ it still works. If not, then i'd say "sharing" _older_ versions to support older hardware wouldn't be out-of-line, but if it does support it, then one should definately give the company your $$$... Just my take, here's a grain of salt with it... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From jforbes2 at mindspring.com Mon Apr 14 12:55:02 2003 From: jforbes2 at mindspring.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: MicroDaSys and Solid State Music info rqst Message-ID: <3E99DDF9.8070900@mindspring.com> Hi again...been awhile! I got hold of the remains of a computer my dad built (with the help of us kids, college age at the time) about 1980 or so. It's a 6809 S-100 bus system, with a microdasys MDA-6809A processor board, and a Solid State Music VB1B video interface board. It also uses a Jameco JE610 ASCII keyboard. The computer was stored in a shed where rats got in, and chewed away all the wires connecing the cpu board to the case keyboard connector. So, I need to figure out how to wire it back up. I also need to build a power supply, although I might be able to use a bench supply I borrowed from my brother...but it only provides 2 amps per side (dual supply, 0-30vdc). Any scans of microdasys or SSM data shemetatics would be incredibly helpful...but if you have links to sites with S-100 bus info, that would also be a help. I'm on digest mode, so expect delays... Thanks! -- Jim Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum! http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2 From kirone0 at libero.it Mon Apr 14 12:56:44 2003 From: kirone0 at libero.it (Kirone dal portatile) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 expansion ports Message-ID: <200304132314.h3DNEgu70158@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi, I've found this http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-July/000553.html searching for technical specs about the expansion ports of the PPC640. In it you write "I have both the (software) technical manual and the service manual." Can you please look at the manuals, for the pinout of expansion ports A anc B? My interest is about this statement: "2) The PPC has an expansion bus which can be turned into normal PC-compatible (8 bit) slots, so you can have an external display adapter" The expansion bus is the ISA-8bit bus? Can I use it (rewiring it) for connect a ISA card? TIA, and sorry for my English. ^_^; -- The disadvantage of working over networks is that you can't so easily go into someone else's office and rip their bloody heart out. (Jim McDonald) From jforbes2 at mindspring.com Mon Apr 14 12:58:18 2003 From: jforbes2 at mindspring.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? Message-ID: <3E9A41FF.3090309@mindspring.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 6:12 PM Subject: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? > I picked up an old IBM XT today and it has a 3.5" floppy drive in it (and it works!) Anybody ever heard of this? The drive has it's own controller card and both it and the drive appear to be IBM parts. )I haven't pulled everything apart to be sure.) FWIW the computer also has a FH 5 1/4" floppy drive and a HH 5 1/4" 10 Mb hard drive with a Seagate logo on the front of it. Anybody know if this is an original XT hard drive or a replacement drive? It's been so long since I've seen an original XT with the 10 Mb drive that I don't remember much about it. > > Joe I have a highly original late production XT, with the 640k system board, 720k hh floppy, 360k hh floppy, and full height IBM 20mb hard drive. Interesting features include a Y cable to power both floppy drives from the PSU connector (Y cable has black wires, and a cloth tag with IBM part number 6480173). Also, the 720k drive has a plain blue eject button. The 3.5" drives from the PS/2 series were labelled 1.44m or 2.88m as appropriate. The 360k drive has an asterisk on it, just like on the optional AT 360k drive. Apparently the IBM convention for 5.25" drives was that if it was a full height floppy, drive then it was 360k, if it was a half height drive it was assumed to be 1.2M, unless it had an asterisk, then it was 360k. Mueller's book says that the 640k system board, XT 20M hd, half height 360k drive, and 720k drive were introduced in April, 1986. Hope this helps solve the mystery.... -- Jim Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum! http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2 From junkmale at mindspring.com Mon Apr 14 12:59:50 2003 From: junkmale at mindspring.com (JMB) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Items For Free ??? In-Reply-To: References: <6131507.1050010026244.JavaMail.nobody@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030414013031.00b35838@mindspring.com> It's nothing spectacular... I have several IBM Model 76's sitting around my office (in storage) and I thought I would try to replace the couple of remaining dumb terminals that are all dying a slow death. I found a couple of these 3270 cards in an old box a couple of years ago so I built a PC DOS 5.0/IBM PC3270 disk image on one of the PCs. I built two and they still work beautifully ! I would have built more but I could find no more cards and there wasn't much of a demand. These are very sturdy machines (The IBM 76 and 77 Models) and I would love to put more of them back in service. I admit I have a sentimental attachment to them and have on several occasions had to make excuses to keep others from tossing them. So it's not critical... but if I can accomplish this I will be quite happy. Peace to you as well. - Michael At 01:35 PM 4/13/2003 -0400, vance@neurotica.com wrote: >What kind of project is it? > >Peace... Sridhar > >On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, JunkMale wrote: > > > > I am looking for one or more IBM 3270 Microchannel cards for a pet > project of mine. > > > > Thanks for your time, > > Michael From technoid at 30below.com Mon Apr 14 13:02:00 2003 From: technoid at 30below.com (SYSTEM MANAGER [VAX]) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: HH drives References: Message-ID: <3E9AAFF7.5E847D49@30below.com> IIRC, the command "G=c800:5" from witin the dos 'Debug utility will often launch a low-level format utility from the host adapter's roms.... Regards, Jeff Alan Greenstreet wrote: > > On Sunday, Apr 13, 2003, at 16:45 Pacific/Auckland, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote: > >> Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked > >> and now physically damaged? > >> > >> I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive > >> characteristics... are they all dead? > > > > Have you gone into the BIOS to see what the settings are for the > > drives? Does the clock/calendar work properly? If not, the > > battery may be dead and settings incorrect. > > > > - don > > > The BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I > can read the partition table and the attributes of the disk. > A small victory: Through persistence I can now read the data in the > extended partition but it is quite unreliable (sometimes reads > sometimes not) - the disk makes a _lot_ of noise and quite obviously > wants to be left alone... > Not to be outdone I will try Spinrite. > > Another question - is it worth trying to save? Has anyone got any > information on Wyse Technologies machines? > The google thing didn't bring up much other than another collector > stating it was a 386 server??? > > Thanks > > Alan From acme at ao.net Mon Apr 14 13:06:01 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Need caddy for RRD-42DA DEC CD-ROM drive Message-ID: <200304141804.h3EI42ue017415@eola.ao.net> Actually, I could use more than one. TIA -- Glen 0/0 From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Apr 14 13:09:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's In-Reply-To: <000801c3029a$a7b85340$0400fea9@game> References: <20030412163846.1960.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <000101c3014e$d43cb110$947ba8c0@piii933> <20030413011715.GD64756@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3E9ACBFB.6050200@bestweb.net> <000801c3029a$a7b85340$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <20030414183622.GA76953@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe TeoZ, from writings of Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 11:29:29AM -0400: > At least the fiberglass keeps them from rusting, saving quite a few of the > cars from the rust heap unlike other cars of their era. The Corvette frames can still rust, can't they? The lack of body rust is nice, but fiberglass shatters easily. Also, surely there are still many metal bits that do rust away on those cars as well. Wouldn't it make much more sense if new car models only came out once a decade or so, and new body panels, etc. were available for decades? After 25 years, I'm still driving the same cars that I've always driven, and I don't understand why people feel a need to purchase new cars. With the computerization of manufacturing that's available, it makes no sense to me why auto manufacturers can't stamp out any body part, for any car, from any year, on demand. Of course, I guess the reason they don't do this is called "planned obsolesence." -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 14 13:29:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030414124736.02858638@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Now, if one were to have some older MFM/RLL hardware to test the latest > version on, one would be able to let us know _if_ it still works. If not, > then i'd say "sharing" _older_ versions to support older hardware wouldn't > be out-of-line, but if it does support it, then one should definately give > the company your $$$... Why doesn't someone end the debate and just contact GRC to see if they will release the older versions into the public domain? If I didn't already have a bazillion jillion things going right now I'd do it myself. GIBSON RESEARCH CORPORATION 27071 Cabot Road, Suite 105 Laguna Hills, CA 92653 Sales: 800-736-0637 Sales: 949-348-7100 Fax: 949-348-7110 Sales: sales@grc.com Offices: offices@grc.com -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Mon Apr 14 13:34:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's Message-ID: > With >the computerization of manufacturing that's available, it makes no >sense to me why auto manufacturers can't stamp out any body part, for >any car, from any year, on demand. Can't they? Eons ago, when I owned a 65 T-Bird and was rebuilding it (a failed project), I was told by a Ford Dealer that Ford can make ANY part for the car if I request it. However it was going to cost a bundle as they had to retool to make the parts. (The conversation was specifically revolving around body panels and interior body parts... so engine and other mechanical parts may not be included... I didn't clarify as I wasn't able to afford used parts much less factory new). -chris From alhartman at yahoo.com Mon Apr 14 13:59:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Harrassment by list member In-Reply-To: <20030414170001.76527.86492.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030414185654.83704.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> I am being harrassed once again by Sellam. I am posting this to the list so that members can observe for themselves the behavior of one of it's members... Here are the texts of his messages... ----------------------------------------------------- Message 1: Shut up you fucking dickhead. Quit fanning the flames on the list you filthy scum. Message 2: Shut your filthy scum hole you nationalistic servant of American facism. You're part of the reason for the decline of this nation and the destruction of the world that is coming upon us. Go find a dirty little hole befitting for your kind, crawl into it, and pull a rock in behind you. Your stink is overwhelming. Message 3: The next time you send me a message I will report you to the FBI for harassment and violating my civil rights. You have called me an "Islamic Idiot" one time too many and I will not stand for this anymore. This is hate speech! ----------------------------------------------------- The claim I called him an "Islamic Idiot" is totally fictional. I used the term in a reply to message #2, but was referring to people in the Radical Islamic Community who hailed the explosion of the Space Shuttle as Punishment from Allah to the U.S. I predicted that would happen, and then got attacked on and off the list by Sellam. Who somehow takes the actions of other people of the Islamic faith personally. In that people who criticizing them are also criticizing him... I just want the list to know how nasty and awful Sellam is. Just for those few of you who might not. And to give those of you who have written to me about him off-list some more data for your files.. I am currently reporting him to his ISP for harrassment. Thanks! Al Hartman From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 14 13:59:17 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Labelling of drives (was: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030414080624.489739f2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > >I have a highly original late production XT, with the 640k system board, > >720k hh floppy, 360k hh floppy, and full height IBM 20mb hard drive. > >Interesting features include a Y cable to power both floppy drives from > >the PSU connector (Y cable has black wires, and a cloth tag with IBM > >part number 6480173). Also, the 720k drive has a plain blue eject > >button. The 3.5" drives from the PS/2 series were labelled 1.44m or > >2.88m as appropriate. PS/2's ALSO had 3.5" drives with a blue eject button labelled 720K. The 720K was out for a while before 1.4M or 2.8M existed. All IBM 3.5" drives with unlabelled button (IN THOSE DAYS) were 720K. > The 360k drive has an asterisk on it, just like > >on the optional AT 360k drive. Apparently the IBM convention for 5.25" > >drives was that if it was a full height floppy, drive then it was 360k, > >if it was a half height drive it was assumed to be 1.2M, unless it had > >an asterisk, then it was 360k. Full height drives could also be 720K, although that was never used by IBM in the U.S. There were 1.2M full height drives (never used by IBM), but they are now rather rare. Half height 360K drives existed BEFORE the existence of 1.2M. The Qume 142 (one of the worst drives EVER) HH drives used in the Jr and in the "Portable PC" did NOT have asterisks. LATER, when IBM started selling ATs with 1.2M drives, they started to put asterisks on 360K HH drives for the AT. Thus, a HH drive with an asterisk is a 360K that came out after the 1.2M. An IBM HH drive without an asterisk could be: a 360K (from before the 1.2M) a 1.2M an aftermarket drive of any size From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Apr 14 14:01:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Spinrite 5 - WAS ->Re: Piracy was Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030414124736.02858638@mail.30below.com> References: <3E9ADCDD.B689413B@rain.org> <3E6CC174.3084.10DD4E67@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030414120502.025e6ca0@mail.zipcon.net> At 01:07 PM 4/14/03 -0400, you wrote: >-SNIP- >Now, if one were to have some older MFM/RLL hardware to test the latest >version on, one would be able to let us know _if_ it still works. If not, >then i'd say "sharing" _older_ versions to support older hardware wouldn't >be out-of-line, but if it does support it, then one should definately give >the company your $$$... I've used spinrite 5 on MFM, RLL, IDE and SCSI drives... From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Apr 14 14:08:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:59 2005 Subject: Harrassment by list member References: <20030414185654.83704.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004d01c302b8$d8e17c80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Hey, at least he kept it off-list. From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Apr 14 14:08:33 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Harrassment by list member In-Reply-To: <20030414185654.83704.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> from "Al Hartman" at Apr 14, 03 11:56:54 am Message-ID: <200304141858.OAA16792@wordstock.com> And thusly Al Hartman spake: > > I am being harrassed once again by Sellam. > > I am posting this to the list so that members can > observe for themselves the behavior of one of it's > members... > > > Here are the texts of his messages... > Where are *your* messages to him? Cheers, Bryan From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 14 14:14:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Labelling of drives (was: 3.5" floppy drive in IBM XT? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > The 360k drive has an asterisk on it, just like > > >on the optional AT 360k drive. Apparently the IBM convention for 5.25" > > >drives was that if it was a full height floppy, drive then it was 360k, > > >if it was a half height drive it was assumed to be 1.2M, unless it had > > >an asterisk, then it was 360k. The 720K HH 5.25" drives in the IBM PC/JX (also available with 3.5") also did not have an asterisk. From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Apr 14 14:14:18 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's References: Message-ID: <001c01c302b8$fceaf340$0400fea9@game> The process of stamping out body panels probably hasnt changed that much in the last 30 years. Sure its automated better but a press is a press. I'm not sure what happens to the old molds after the car companies are done stamping out parts with them. Are they so used up that they are scrapped or are they sold off at auction to people that make after market parts? ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 2:31 PM Subject: Re: OT: Toy Chevy's > > With > >the computerization of manufacturing that's available, it makes no > >sense to me why auto manufacturers can't stamp out any body part, for > >any car, from any year, on demand. > > Can't they? > > Eons ago, when I owned a 65 T-Bird and was rebuilding it (a failed > project), I was told by a Ford Dealer that Ford can make ANY part for the > car if I request it. However it was going to cost a bundle as they had to > retool to make the parts. (The conversation was specifically revolving > around body panels and interior body parts... so engine and other > mechanical parts may not be included... I didn't clarify as I wasn't able > to afford used parts much less factory new). > > -chris > From spedraja at ono.com Mon Apr 14 14:21:01 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Harrassment by list member References: <20030414185654.83704.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> <004d01c302b8$d8e17c80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <008901c302ba$b137c2a0$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> > Hey, at least he kept it off-list. YES ! Best Regards Sergio From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Apr 14 14:27:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's References: <20030412163846.1960.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <000101c3014e$d43cb110$947ba8c0@piii933> <20030413011715.GD64756@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3E9ACBFB.6050200@bestweb.net> <000801c3029a$a7b85340$0400fea9@game> <20030414183622.GA76953@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <002101c302ba$b9b18f60$0400fea9@game> Yes, frames can rust out if noit taken care of. I dont know too many people who drive older corvettes in the winter snow (for good reason). The reason new car models come out every few years, and each model has small changes every year is to get people to trade in and keep buying new cars. Some people like to buy a new car every few years or major model changes for a few reasons. New styles always look better then the old ones. Got rid of the sports car and now want an SUV or whatever else is trendy at the moment. Get rid of the current car before it starts needing major repairs. Car was a lemon to begin with. Didnt really like the color. Etc. I drive my cars untill they die. My current 1989 Cougar has 180,000+ miles on it and is starting to look a little ratty, transmition could be better. I had this car since the early 90's with barely 30,000 miles on it. If it was in mint condition I would not even think of getting rid of it. As it is now I will drive it till it dies, and get another used car. I alsways wanted a corvette (for the looks mostly) and got one 5 years ago as a weekend summer toy (70,000 ,miles pretty mint inside and out). If you dont hit anything solid with the car the fiberglass wont break (its harder to dammage then you think) and can be patched up if needed (havnt had to do it). New cars are VERY easy to dent, and expensive to repair professionally. Unlike the 20+ year old cars you drive with a full frame, newer cars are built to crumple on impact and cost alot to fix. The old cars would bounce of each other with a slightly bent fender and a very rattled driver. I had a 86 thunderbird that got rearended at a light waiting to turn by an old lincoln town car (metal bumpers). My car was turned into a sub compact (complete writeoff) but I wasnt hurt at all. ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 2:36 PM Subject: Re: OT: Toy Chevy's > Quothe TeoZ, from writings of Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 11:29:29AM -0400: > > At least the fiberglass keeps them from rusting, saving quite a few of the > > cars from the rust heap unlike other cars of their era. > > The Corvette frames can still rust, can't they? The lack of body rust > is nice, but fiberglass shatters easily. Also, surely there are still > many metal bits that do rust away on those cars as well. Wouldn't it > make much more sense if new car models only came out once a decade or > so, and new body panels, etc. were available for decades? After 25 > years, I'm still driving the same cars that I've always driven, and I > don't understand why people feel a need to purchase new cars. With > the computerization of manufacturing that's available, it makes no > sense to me why auto manufacturers can't stamp out any body part, for > any car, from any year, on demand. Of course, I guess the reason they > don't do this is called "planned obsolesence." > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From alhartman at yahoo.com Mon Apr 14 14:27:15 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Fwd: Harrassment by list member Message-ID: <20030414192456.73895.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> I am still being harrassed once again by Sellam. I am posting this to the list so that members can observe for themselves the behavior of one of it's members... Here is the text of his latest message... ----------------------------------------------------- Message 4: The next time you send me a message I will report you to the FBI for harassment and violating my civil rights. You have called me an "Islamic Idiot" one time too many and I will not stand for this anymore. This is hate speech! I am forwarding your messages to colleagues at the ACLU and will pursue the matter legally if you continue to send me your vitriolic hate speech. ----------------------------------------------------- I look forward to speaking to representatives of the ACLU and FBI and presenting factual data of this list user's continual hate and harrassment of me. I'm sure there are several other list members who have been harrassed by Sellam who would like to do likewise (Contact me off the list if you'd like to do that). I'd like the fantasies and harrassment to stop. I have NEVER attacked Sellam over his religious beliefs, and never would. I have commented on Nastiness of Radical Islamics in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and other Middle Eastern Countries. There lies the hate and intolerance. But, I would plead guilty to being intolerant of intolerance... LOL! I'd much rather be dicussing some cool Classic Computers... The first weekend of May is the Trenton Computer Festival (oddly held in Edison, New Jersey rather than Trenton...). I'm looking forward to the Flea Market, as I do every year. Though sadly, each year the flea is dominated more and more by PC's and less by cool classic computers. I'm still hoping to get some Amiga Equipment, and a TRS-80 Model I/III/4 for my collection. And possibly anything for my Atari ST. But, there wasn't much there last year. Mostly because I think the price for a Flea Booth is too expensive for most people to sell the few things they have. It's a shame Ken Gore bought the rights for this show from the original User's Group that ran it. They've made it less special and smaller in recent years. Regards, Al Hartman From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Apr 14 14:29:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's In-Reply-To: <20030414183622.GA76953@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > With > the computerization of manufacturing that's available, it makes no > sense to me why auto manufacturers can't stamp out any body part, for > any car, from any year, on demand. Of course, I guess the reason they > don't do this is called "planned obsolesence." You may want to ask someone in the industry why they can not do this, even with the computization of manufacturing. You will be horrified. The auto plants themselves are extremely finely tuned machines - straying from the optimal cost the manufacturers an extreme amount of money. Back in my USR days, I worked with a guy that mas a manufacturing engineer for GM. Whenever something went wrong and the assembly line stopped (it was a final line), it would cost GM around $30,000 per minute. That's 1.8 million dollars an hour. Pretty serious. Even at USR, when our lines stopped, the cost was something around $150 per minute. Having a line that stamps out older body parts on demand just would not make sense. Even if all of the tooling was still available (it is not, and you *really* don't want to know how much new tooling would cost), the manufacturing engineers could not make a line that even comes close to making money. They also can not stamp hundreds of panels at a time and store them - warehousing is extremely expensive, and body panels are about the most innefficient things ever made to store (next time or two you see a freight train, look for those monster sized boxcars. They are shipping body panels. They have to be huge, as they are moving a bunch of air, with some metal scattered in between.). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Apr 14 14:33:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Eons ago, when I owned a 65 T-Bird and was rebuilding it (a failed > project), I was told by a Ford Dealer that Ford can make ANY part for the > car if I request it. However it was going to cost a bundle as they had to > retool to make the parts. I once worked on a project for Agco, one of the big farm machine companies. They had us scan blueprints for machines from 1930 to 1970 or so, as they had the same policy. They will make you a new part if they don't have one on a warehouse, but you won't like the cost. Cars or tractors - often it was cheaper just to buy the latest model. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Apr 14 14:37:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's In-Reply-To: <001c01c302b8$fceaf340$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: > I'm not sure what happens to the old molds after the car companies are done > stamping out parts with them. Are they so used up that they are scrapped or > are they sold off at auction to people that make after market parts? From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Apr 14 14:42:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Fwd: Harrassment by list member In-Reply-To: <20030414192456.73895.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030414192456.73895.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > I am still being harrassed once again by Sellam. > > I am posting this to the list so that members can > observe for themselves the behavior of one of it's > members... You're both adults, at least in theory. Why should any of us care about what either of you say to eachother in private[*] e-mails? Keep your personal feuds off this public list. -brian. [*] Forwarding or posting private messages to a public forum is a serious breach of netiquette. From cb at mythtech.net Mon Apr 14 14:44:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Tenton Computer Fest (was: Fwd: Harrassment by list member) Message-ID: >The first weekend of May is the Trenton Computer >Festival (oddly held in Edison, New Jersey rather than >Trenton...). I'm looking forward to the Flea Market, >as I do every year. Anyone have a URL with info on the Festival? I missed it last year, and am thinking heavily of going this year, but would like to find out more info before I pen in the date. -chris From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 14 14:46:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Harrassment by list member In-Reply-To: <20030414185654.83704.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I find this all quite amusing. First of all, I have not posted any messages to the list attacking Al, as has been noted. Second, Al has gone out of his way to take messages sent to him in private e-mail, and posted them to the list, thereby forcing the list to be dragged down to the basest levels without any regards to fellow list members. These are the tactics of an immature person. Al, I object to this behavior and to the harassment, and I demand that it end. This mailing list is for the discussion of classic computers, not to bring your personal grudges out into the open. I will not comment further on this on the list, but will only add that Al has made some possibly actionable statements that may require legal remedy. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Apr 14 14:48:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Tenton Computer Fest (was: Fwd: Harrassment by list member) In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Apr 14, 03 03:42:14 pm Message-ID: <200304141937.PAA13656@wordstock.com> And thusly chris spake: > > Anyone have a URL with info on the Festival? > http://www.tcf-nj.org/ http://www.tcfshow.com/ Cheers, Bryan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 14 14:53:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Harrassment by list member In-Reply-To: <004d01c302b8$d8e17c80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20030414185654.83704.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030414153222.43bf918a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:05 PM 4/14/03 -0500, Jay wrote: >Hey, at least he kept it off-list. > Well he didn't keep this off the list: > From: Joe > > At 03:05 PM 4/12/03 -0400, you wrote: > >And I thought the economy was in the toilet. > > Only for the average citizen. The rich are richer > than ever thanks to Bush and administration (or > maybe I should say LACK of administration!) > > Joe You probably shouldn't say that, since it's wrong... Can we keep political commentary off this list? Especially mean-spirited partisan hate speech with no data to back it up? I want to hear about Classic Computers on this list. Not someone's partisan hatred. Thanks! Al I decided to wait a day before I replied to it but I think that it's time that I did. I'll send my reply in a separate message. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 14 15:06:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Al, the idiot! was RE: Apple Lisa XL on eBay In-Reply-To: <20030413170653.52729.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030413164506.66021.66715.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030414160333.493fee2e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Sorry to fan the flames but I suffered one of Al's meally mouthed attacks a couple of days ago it's been eating at me. I kept silent till now but after hearing about his attack on Sellam I feel that it's time I made a reply. See below. At 10:06 AM 4/13/03 -0700, Al wrote: >> From: Joe >> >> At 03:05 PM 4/12/03 -0400, you wrote: >> >And I thought the economy was in the toilet. >> >> Only for the average citizen. The rich are richer >> than ever thanks to Bush and administration (or >> maybe I should say LACK of administration!) >> >> Joe > >You probably shouldn't say that, since it's wrong... > >Can we keep political commentary off this list? > >Especially mean-spirited partisan hate speech with no >data to back it up? > >I want to hear about Classic Computers on this list. >Not someone's partisan hatred. > >Thanks! > >Al > Al, what are you, some king of F***** idiot? That certainly didn't qualify as hate speech or "mean-spirited". As for backing it up, where have you been for the last year? Did you miss the news that Enron, Adelphi, World Com and a number of other companies have been looted and ruined by their own management? Not only did they wipe out their companies but they also wiped out the life savings and retirements of tens of thousands of their company employees and millions of stock holders. That's just one example of the lack of administration that I was referring to. The gouging of the american consumers by the oil companies is another. Gas prices have nearly doubled in the past six months or have you been living in a cave somewhere and not noticed? In both cases the perpetraitors are major supporters (read $$$$) of the Bush administartion. Don't get me wrong, I'm a registered Republican, but I won't stand by and say nothing while the Bush administration stands idlely by and lets their big dollar supporters rob the american public. Why don't you ask the members of this list how many of them have lost their jobs entirely or have had to take jobs far below their capabilities because of the lousy economy and stock market? If you wanted to hear about classic computers then why did you even reply to this message, why didn't you just ignore it and go on? No one else felt it necessary to jump in and grossly exaggerate what I said. Not only did you feel it necessary to mouth off on the CC-Talk list but you also posted your batherings to the CC-Tech list! As a matter of fact, I don't remember ever seeing a message from you that was about computers. But you're always eager to but in and shot off your mouth when someone expresses their opinion! In the mean time, your village is looking for you! Joe PS you don't need to bother to reply, you've just been added to my permanent kill-file. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 14 15:06:26 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Al, the idiot! was RE: Apple Lisa XL on eBay In-Reply-To: <20030413170653.52729.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030413164506.66021.66715.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030414160333.493ffe34@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Sorry to fan the flames but I suffered one of Al's meally mouthed attacks a couple of days ago it's been eating at me. I kept silent till now but after hearing about his attack on Sellam I feel that it's time I made a reply. See below. At 10:06 AM 4/13/03 -0700, Al wrote: >> From: Joe >> >> At 03:05 PM 4/12/03 -0400, you wrote: >> >And I thought the economy was in the toilet. >> >> Only for the average citizen. The rich are richer >> than ever thanks to Bush and administration (or >> maybe I should say LACK of administration!) >> >> Joe > >You probably shouldn't say that, since it's wrong... > >Can we keep political commentary off this list? > >Especially mean-spirited partisan hate speech with no >data to back it up? > >I want to hear about Classic Computers on this list. >Not someone's partisan hatred. > >Thanks! > >Al > Al, what are you, some king of F***** idiot? That certainly didn't qualify as hate speech or "mean-spirited". As for backing it up, where have you been for the last year? Did you miss the news that Enron, Adelphi, World Com and a number of other companies have been looted and ruined by their own management? Not only did they wipe out their companies but they also wiped out the life savings and retirements of tens of thousands of their company employees and millions of stock holders. That's just one example of the lack of administration that I was referring to. The gouging of the american consumers by the oil companies is another. Gas prices have nearly doubled in the past six months or have you been living in a cave somewhere and not noticed? In both cases the perpetraitors are major supporters (read $$$$) of the Bush administartion. Don't get me wrong, I'm a registered Republican, but I won't stand by and say nothing while the Bush administration stands idlely by and lets their big dollar supporters rob the american public. Why don't you ask the members of this list how many of them have lost their jobs entirely or have had to take jobs far below their capabilities because of the lousy economy and stock market? If you wanted to hear about classic computers then why did you even reply to this message, why didn't you just ignore it and go on? No one else felt it necessary to jump in and grossly exaggerate what I said. Not only did you feel it necessary to mouth off on the CC-Talk list but you also posted your batherings to the CC-Tech list! As a matter of fact, I don't remember ever seeing a message from you that was about computers. But you're always eager to but in and shot off your mouth when someone expresses their opinion! In the mean time, your village is looking for you! Joe PS you don't need to bother to reply, you've just been added to my permanent kill-file. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 14 15:19:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's In-Reply-To: <001c01c302b8$fceaf340$0400fea9@game> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030414160946.43cffca6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:06 PM 4/14/03 -0400, you wrote: >The process of stamping out body panels probably hasnt changed that much in >the last 30 years. Sure its automated better but a press is a press. > >I'm not sure what happens to the old molds after the car companies are done >stamping out parts with them. Are they so used up that they are scrapped or >are they sold off at auction to people that make after market parts? In all the cases that I'm aware of the molds where sold as scrap with the express requirement that they be destroyed. I guess the car companies what to be sure that no one starts producng '55 chevys in Mexico, Brazil or where ever. Joe > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "chris" >To: "Classic Computer" >Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 2:31 PM >Subject: Re: OT: Toy Chevy's > > >> > With >> >the computerization of manufacturing that's available, it makes no >> >sense to me why auto manufacturers can't stamp out any body part, for >> >any car, from any year, on demand. >> >> Can't they? >> >> Eons ago, when I owned a 65 T-Bird and was rebuilding it (a failed >> project), I was told by a Ford Dealer that Ford can make ANY part for the >> car if I request it. However it was going to cost a bundle as they had to >> retool to make the parts. (The conversation was specifically revolving >> around body panels and interior body parts... so engine and other >> mechanical parts may not be included... I didn't clarify as I wasn't able >> to afford used parts much less factory new). >> >> -chris >> From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Apr 14 15:34:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <3E9ADCDD.B689413B@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E6D669A.27872.13628216@localhost> Yup, version 5 and it won't do MFM and RLL HDs. Can any justification be made for any restrictions on the dissemnation of old software such as this which in no way cuts into the sales of his newest product ? This is an on-going debate among classic computer collectors and some formalistic posture as to the useage of outmoded software is ludicrous. Most of the old hardware we attempt to get up and running would be consigned to landfills if we religeously held to that position. This is not about stealing the bread from some hardworking programmers table but should be about his responsibility to the community that enabled him to continue his type of work. If it's no longer a viable product and is not supported, all deals are off. This would not justify someone coming along and marketing his product. That's a different ball of wax. I just checked my version of Spinrite 1.2a. Under liscensing it says: o Consultant License -- Consultants who wish to repair and revitalize systems belonging to others may do so by executing our CONSULTING USE LICENSING AGREEMENT and paying a $10 fee each time SpinRite is used on another system. SpinRite must not, of course, be installed onto those drives. I hope those taking this position have religeously submitted the $10 whenever they've used it on someone elses machine. Lawrence On 14 Apr 2003, , Marvin Johnston wrote: > Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > > Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone > > forever come up on the list. For the most part almost all > > old computer collectors are using programs illegally. > > Spinrite made their money off this version back when MFM > > and RLL drives were still current. They no longer provide > > it and haven't seen fit to offer it to PD. > > Whoa boy, I *will* speak up when this listserver starts > publicly doing things that are not in the best interests of > the classic computer community. We are talking about > software that is still a viable commercial product (although > granted, it appears to be an older version.) Trying to trash > the reputation of this hobby is not something that I will be > a part of, and I *will* say something. > > Before you start saying they (GRC) no longer provides it, > where did you come up with that information??? > http://grc.com/default.htm still has an announcement > prominently offering SpinRite in their top banner. lgwalker@ mts.net From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 14 15:57:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Fwd: Harrassment by list member Message-ID: <200304142054.NAA04172@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I think this show why we should keep both political and religious comments out of our text and even our signature lines. This group is really intend to be a classic computer list. There are plenty of other news groups and mail list that one can go out and pick fights in. I know that most people feel strongly about things. It is good that they voice their opinions. It is just that this is not the place. Dwight From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Apr 14 16:20:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Fwd: Harrassment by list member In-Reply-To: References: <20030414192456.73895.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> <20030414192456.73895.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030414142050.04d0c050@mail.zipcon.net> You know, right now I'm watching a 2 1/2 year old and 5 month old from 4 am till 4:30 PM) because their mother ran out on my brother . I'm in school full time and looking for work. I don't NEED bullshit like this. it's simple, if sellam is 'harassing' you, you filter his email messages to /dev/null and he can do the same for you. I don't need to recieve crap like this, I have enough bullshit stress in my life right now. If you insist on sending crap like this, perhaps you'd like to pay for my meds that ran out a week ago that I can't afford right now due to being unemployed so I can deal with YOUR crap on top of the rest of it. From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Apr 14 16:22:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Fwd: Harrassment by list member In-Reply-To: <20030414192456.73895.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030414142507.025faec0@mail.zipcon.net> At 12:24 PM 4/14/03 -0700, you wrote: >I am still being harrassed once again by Sellam. -snip- You do realize that in addition to being a breach of netiquite(sp) your posting of private emails in a public forum is illegal in some areas. especially since I really doubt that Sellam gave you permission to do so. From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Mon Apr 14 16:29:01 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <4D248548-6E02-11D7-A9E4-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030413104107.0307ae18@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030414221125.02da1fb0@pop.freeserve.net> At 10:50 14/04/2003 +1200, Alan Greenstreet wrote: >This machine has no BIOS that I can interrogate (I got the date from >running scandisk from a later version of MSDOS) - On boot-up (using the >floppy) it is asking for a Setup Disk (this could be what you mention >above). I don't have this disk so if you can find it I'd like a copy... OK, I had a rummage around and found a box of discs at the bottom of a filing cabinet! Wyse setup discs, and a DOS tools disc, along with other miscellaneous stuff.. All on 5.25". I've dragged them home, along with a suitable drive, and as soon as I can fit it into a PC I'll read the discs and post the relevant files up somewhere. >Mine has an st-251-1 and an unbranded model installed and there appears to >be one controller for both the hard drives and the floppy disks. It also >has a 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy drives installed. Internally the machine is >in good condition but from the outside it looks as if it has had a hard >life. I was trying to get it up and running to use it as a test bed for >other MFM controlled disks (as it has two HD bays and 3 FD bays). they were pretty solid machines ... weighed a ton, too... >>Has yours got that natty (but impractical) LCD display on the front? > >Yes! What was that for? It doesn't appear to be working at the moment (it >does power up) - I am assuming that once the Setup disk is run this might >come back to life? As far as I remember, it showed the stuff you'd expect to see as LEDs on a PC - turbo status, flashing "C" for hard drive access, etc. I /think/ you could get it to show the time, too.. Wyse are still going - http://www.wyse.com. But they seem to concentrate on WinTerms now - even the "discontinued products" pages has newer stuff on them than I ever used of theirs! I have some Wyse serial terminals (WY-120 I think) in a box buried somewhere, plus a (XT style) keyboard off a 286 if anybody wants them. Regards Rob From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Apr 14 16:48:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Cars, politics & hate mail Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030414223447.019a8008@slave> Chaps, Cars: I love classic cars & motor racing, that's why I subscribe to one mailing list & several newsgroups. I rarely read about classic computers in those. Politics: I detest politics & politicians, this is why I neither subscribe to related mailing lists or newsgroups. Hate mail: Never had any, never sent any, probably never will. Classic computers: Love 'em, that's why I subscribe to this list, and several newsgroups. I've got my cars elsewhere. I've got my classic comps here. I don't want politics or hate mail. Can we keep it on topic please? You Know Who You Are. And finally: Please please please DO NOT reply to this message. Ever. Thanks. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 14 17:39:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 expansion ports In-Reply-To: <200304132314.h3DNEgu70158@huey.classiccmp.org> from "Kirone dal portatile" at Apr 13, 3 00:33:03 am Message-ID: > Hi, I've found this > > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-July/000553.html > > searching for technical specs about the expansion ports of the PPC640. > In it you write "I have both the (software) technical manual and the service > manual." This is a fairly large mailing list, but I suspect it was me who said that. In any cas, I do have those manuals... > > Can you please look at the manuals, for the pinout of expansion ports A anc B? Sure, here you are. Expansion A (DB25) 1 +5V _input_ 2 T/C 3 A19 4 A17 5 A15 6 A13 7 A11 8 A9 9 A7 10 A5 11 A3 12 A1 13 AEN 14 Ground 15 DACK0/ 16 A18 17 A16 18 A14 19 A12 20 A10 21 A8 22 A6 23 A4 24 A2 25 A0 Expansion B (DC37) 1 -20V 2 IRQ2 3 IRQ4 4 IRQ6 5 I/O Rdy 6 DACK2/ 7 I/O CHCK/ 8 DRQ2 9 CK14 (Osc) 10 MEMR/ 11 I/OR/ 12 ALE 13 D7 14 D5 15 D3 16 D1 17 -5V input 18 -12V input 19 Ground 20 +12V Input 21 IRQ3 22 IRQ5 23 IRQ7 24 DACK1/ 25 DACK3/ 26 DRQ1 27 DRQ3 28 MEMW/ 29 IOW/ 30 RESET (out) 31 CK4 (Clock) 32 D6 33 D4 34 D2 35 D0 36 +12V input 37 +5V input Note that the power lines are inputs -- the machine is powered from the expansion unit, not the other way round. Many of the signals come from irreplaceable custom chips, and should be buffered (Amstrad suggest using a 74HC244 for this). In particular, the following 16 signals need to be buffered : A0-A7 IOW/ IOR/ MEMW/ MEMR/ ALE RESET CK14 CK4 The data bus should be pulled high by external 10k resistors. > > My interest is about this statement: > "2) The PPC has an expansion bus which can be turned into normal > PC-compatible (8 bit) slots, so you can have an external display adapter" > The expansion bus is the ISA-8bit bus? Can I use it (rewiring it) for connect > a ISA card? You can connect an 8 bit ISA card by matching up the signals, but I would still advise buffering the 16 signals I mentioned. Note that you need to provide an external PSU as well. -tony From allain at panix.com Mon Apr 14 17:52:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Harrassment by list member References: <20030414185654.83704.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007201c302d8$16357720$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I'm concerned about this thread but I have no time to read it right now. To all concerned - stay (or, become) calm and I will read this thread on Wednesday. Hopefully, all will be cleared by then anyway; else you'll/they'll/he'll cause holy hell for the readers/lurkers caring to read through another mess. John A. From donm at cts.com Mon Apr 14 18:16:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:00 2005 Subject: Al, the idiot! was RE: Apple Lisa XL on eBay In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030414160333.493ffe34@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Joe, you must be using your double gun today and you fired both barrels simultaneously! - don On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > Sorry to fan the flames but I suffered one of Al's meally mouthed attacks a couple of days ago it's been eating at me. I kept silent till now but after hearing about his attack on Sellam I feel that it's time I made a reply. See below. > > At 10:06 AM 4/13/03 -0700, Al wrote: > >> From: Joe > >> > >> At 03:05 PM 4/12/03 -0400, you wrote: > >> >And I thought the economy was in the toilet. > >> > >> Only for the average citizen. The rich are richer > >> than ever thanks to Bush and administration (or > >> maybe I should say LACK of administration!) > >> > >> Joe > > > >You probably shouldn't say that, since it's wrong... > > > >Can we keep political commentary off this list? > > > >Especially mean-spirited partisan hate speech with no > >data to back it up? > > > >I want to hear about Classic Computers on this list. > >Not someone's partisan hatred. > > > >Thanks! > > > >Al > > > > Al, what are you, some king of F***** idiot? That certainly didn't qualify as hate speech or "mean-spirited". As for backing it up, where have you been for the last year? Did you miss the news that Enron, Adelphi, World Com and a number of other companies have been looted and ruined by their own management? Not only did they wipe out their companies but they also wiped out the life savings and retirements of tens of thousands of their company employees and millions of stock holders. That's just one example of the lack of administration that I was referring to. The gouging of the american consumers by the oil companies is another. Gas prices have nearly doubled in the past six months or have you been living in a cave somewhere and not noticed? In both cases the perpetraitors are major supporters (read $$$$) of the Bush administartion. Don't get me wrong, I'm a registered Republican, but I won't stand by and say nothing while the Bush administration stands idlely by and! l! > ets their big dollar supporters rob the american public. Why don't you ask the members of this list how many of them have lost their jobs entirely or have had to take jobs far below their capabilities because of the lousy economy and stock market? > > If you wanted to hear about classic computers then why did you even reply to this message, why didn't you just ignore it and go on? No one else felt it necessary to jump in and grossly exaggerate what I said. Not only did you feel it necessary to mouth off on the CC-Talk list but you also posted your batherings to the CC-Tech list! As a matter of fact, I don't remember ever seeing a message from you that was about computers. But you're always eager to but in and shot off your mouth when someone expresses their opinion! > > In the mean time, your village is looking for you! > > Joe > > PS you don't need to bother to reply, you've just been added to my permanent kill-file. > > From kittstr at access-4-free.com Mon Apr 14 18:44:00 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: OT?: low tech computer. Message-ID: <003901c302df$680de710$70d9d63f@amscomputer> I got sent this from a list, I thought it was funny. http://jokeworm.com/funlinks/funlinks6.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 14 18:58:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: Al, the idiot! was RE: Apple Lisa XL on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030414160333.493ffe34@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030414195443.0f8fe290@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Don, Yeah, like I said this has been eating at me for a couple of days. I try to be very carefull and precise about what I say and it REALLY pisses me off to have someone accuse me of saying something like that. Or in this case grossly over exaggerating what I said. My apologies to anyone else on the list that I might have offended. Joe At 04:14 PM 4/14/03 -0700, you wrote: >Joe, you must be using your double gun today and you fired both >barrels simultaneously! > - don > > >On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > >> Sorry to fan the flames but I suffered one of Al's meally mouthed attacks a couple of days ago it's been eating at me. I kept silent till now but after hearing about his attack on Sellam I feel that it's time I made a reply. See below. >> >> At 10:06 AM 4/13/03 -0700, Al wrote: >> >> From: Joe >> >> >> >> At 03:05 PM 4/12/03 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >And I thought the economy was in the toilet. >> >> >> >> Only for the average citizen. The rich are richer >> >> than ever thanks to Bush and administration (or >> >> maybe I should say LACK of administration!) >> >> >> >> Joe >> > >> >You probably shouldn't say that, since it's wrong... >> > >> >Can we keep political commentary off this list? >> > >> >Especially mean-spirited partisan hate speech with no >> >data to back it up? >> > >> >I want to hear about Classic Computers on this list. >> >Not someone's partisan hatred. >> > >> >Thanks! >> > >> >Al >> > >> >> Al, what are you, some king of F***** idiot? That certainly didn't qualify as hate speech or "mean-spirited". As for backing it up, where have you been for the last year? Did you miss the news that Enron, Adelphi, World Com and a number of other companies have been looted and ruined by their own management? Not only did they wipe out their companies but they also wiped out the life savings and retirements of tens of thousands of their company employees and millions of stock holders. That's just one example of the lack of administration that I was referring to. The gouging of the american consumers by the oil companies is another. Gas prices have nearly doubled in the past six months or have you been living in a cave somewhere and not noticed? In both cases the perpetraitors are major supporters (read $$$$) of the Bush administartion. Don't get me wrong, I'm a registered Republican, but I won't stand by and say nothing while the Bush administration stands idlely by an! d! > l! >> ets their big dollar supporters rob the american public. Why don't you ask the members of this list how many of them have lost their jobs entirely or have had to take jobs far below their capabilities because of the lousy economy and stock market? >> >> If you wanted to hear about classic computers then why did you even reply to this message, why didn't you just ignore it and go on? No one else felt it necessary to jump in and grossly exaggerate what I said. Not only did you feel it necessary to mouth off on the CC-Talk list but you also posted your batherings to the CC-Tech list! As a matter of fact, I don't remember ever seeing a message from you that was about computers. But you're always eager to but in and shot off your mouth when someone expresses their opinion! >> >> In the mean time, your village is looking for you! >> >> Joe >> >> PS you don't need to bother to reply, you've just been added to my permanent kill-file. >> >> From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 14 19:01:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: H89 disk transfer program Message-ID: <200304142357.QAA04304@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I've started looking at how to make a H89 disk transfer program that would allow one to make images of the hard sectored disk into a DOS file. I've had my H89 powered up and thought I'd pass on one of the first problems I came across ( other than one of the tantalums popping ). The belts on the floppy drives have all stretched. Only about half of my floppies would read. Since I don't have the original full height drive, the drives I do have had no adjustment for belt tension( they were ALPS single sided drives, half height ). I had to file the motor mount holes to get the drives to work well with the pile of disk I have. Anyway, this is something to watch for in the older drives. Now, onto the more useful stuff. I've written some bootstrap code that allows me to pass a program into the H89 from a serial port. The code to do this take a reasonable amount of space because of the need to initialize the serial port. It currently takes about 40H+ of code to enter ( in octal for Heath monitor ). I might find some code in the ROMs that does this part for me. This is a little long but there is not much I can do about it. I am using the LP serial port of the H89 since it runs with a 1:1 wiring of a PC serial port ;) The idea is that the first 4 bytes will contain the address and count to load. The rest will be the actual code. When it finishes the counted bytes, it will automatically switch to the down loaded code. This next code is expected to perform the functions of format, disk image write and disk image read. This will be used as the next level of bootstrapping. I've got notes on all of the entry points to control the H17 disk controller so I can do the various disk operations. There is one problem I have now and that is that the HDOS disk all have a thing called 'Volume Number'. I expect that this was so that one could avoid trashing other disk ( HDOS uses a mount/dismount system ). The difficulty is that the first track is always volume 0 and the others are the particular volume number selected for that disk. In order to read or write, one needs to know the volume number for that disk. This is encoded on the disk, similar to things like sector number and track number. I haven't figured out how HDOS knows what volume the disk is by looking at the first track. I suppose it is someplace there. I suspect that I may want to format the disk as I write the image so that I can pass the volume number along. I'm not sure if it is a good idea or not to keep the original volume number. One might want to have new volume numbers for each disk in their collection. Still, I am making progress. Hopefully, this will make sending and archiving HDOS disk easier. Any suggestions on things I might want to add? Dwight From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 14 19:19:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: Harrassment by list member In-Reply-To: <20030414192456.73895.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8B170026-6ED7-11D7-981B-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 02:24 PM, Al Hartman wrote: > I am still being harrassed once again by Sellam. I find myself in the highly amusing position of siding with Sellam, sort of. I refuse to take seriously anything that is quoted out of context. You haven't posted his entire messages, nor the full text of your own side of the exchange. You did mention in your previous post that you *had* used the term "Islamic Idiot", "although not referring to Sellam himself." Al, that was pretty dumb, at best, and malicious at worst. Especially considering that Sellam is well and widely known for trumping with the race card, and for being very sensitive concerning his heritage. > I am posting this to the list so that members can > observe for themselves the behavior of one of it's > members... We all know how Sellam behaves on list, and many of us have been exposed to his behavior off list. I vote "not interested" There's enough crap here without dragging up more from outside. You know who the maintainer is, if you have a problem with someone's behavior on the list. You evidently know also how to contact Sellam's ISP. If you're being threatened, I suggest contacting your local LEA. But none of what you've posted here is useful here, and it comes off as simple character assassination. Doc From patrick at evocative.com Mon Apr 14 19:38:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: H89 disk transfer program In-Reply-To: <200304142357.QAA04304@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > It currently takes > about 40H+ of code to enter ( in octal for Heath monitor ). > I might find some code in the ROMs that does this > part for me. This is a little long but there is not much > I can do about it. > Any suggestions on things I might want to add? > Dwight Dwight, Hmmm... interesting. I have an idea... How about borrowing a concept from bootloaders in general? Shorten the program that you have to key in by hand to just a short bootstrap loader that reads bytes from the serial port and stuffs memory. The PC-side program's job, then, is to *first* send the *real* larger downloader down the line before the disk image data, which the bootloader stuffs into memory and then executes to read the image data that then follows. I'm not sure how much shorter the bootloader could be than 40H, but I have to imagine a good bit since no disk I/O is needed at that stage, and it would certainly facilitate the bigger duplicator app being much larger without much hassle to the operator. Patrick From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 14 20:28:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: H89 disk transfer program Message-ID: <200304150126.SAA04353@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Patrick Rigney" > >> It currently takes >> about 40H+ of code to enter ( in octal for Heath monitor ). >> I might find some code in the ROMs that does this >> part for me. This is a little long but there is not much >> I can do about it. > >> Any suggestions on things I might want to add? >> Dwight > >Dwight, > >Hmmm... interesting. I have an idea... How about borrowing a concept from >bootloaders in general? Shorten the program that you have to key in by hand >to just a short bootstrap loader that reads bytes from the serial port and >stuffs memory. The PC-side program's job, then, is to *first* send the >*real* larger downloader down the line before the disk image data, which the >bootloader stuffs into memory and then executes to read the image data that >then follows. I'm not sure how much shorter the bootloader could be than >40H, but I have to imagine a good bit since no disk I/O is needed at that >stage, and it would certainly facilitate the bigger duplicator app being >much larger without much hassle to the operator. > >Patrick > Hi Patrick Reread my post. That is just about all it does. It does have to initialize the port and that takes more than about half the code. The loop that loads the memory is quite short. The com port on the H89 is a 8250 and so needs a bunch of stuff setup. To load a value into the port I/O takes 3 to 4 bytes, regardless of how it is done. I suspect I can strip a little but I doubt I can take out more than about 10%. One thing I haven't tried is to use the Z80 I/O instructions and have a table of things to output in sequence. This might be shorter. Anyway, I've made it so that I can optimize it more after I get the rest of the functionality of the main code. There is a small amount of extra because I've not used a fixed load address or fixed size. I could shorten it a little and keep it flexable by only writing the load address. One would write the bytes backwards from there. At some point, the JMP instructions address would be over written by my new load code. The address of the high byte would be the same, just the low byte part of the address would change, directing the code to the newly loaded code. This would simplify the load loop since no count needs to be maintained ( a trick I learned form my Nicolet 1080's bootstrap ). I'll make another pass at the code and publish what I have. Others can then look at it for optimizations. Dwight From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Apr 14 20:57:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: New Finds for teh Museum Message-ID: <029201c302f2$0130ea70$6d0bdd40@oemcomputer> Well the last few days have been fun and I got the following items: A vintage Hasbro Think-A-Tron toy computer that works great. An AMIGA A3000 needs some tender loving care, will not power up right now. A Commodore 1403 monitor. A Grid notebook model 1660 needs some work. A digital Decpc XL590 not tested yet. An AT&T 6310 PC. Several more mousepads and other items too new to list. From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Apr 14 21:10:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: Need Omnibot 2000 parts Message-ID: <02b601c302f3$cb8c64b0$6d0bdd40@oemcomputer> I'm looking for two items to complete my omnibot 2000. I need the remote control and the tray. Also the cardboard base would be nice to have. If anyone has these items to sell or trade let me know off line. Thanks From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 14 21:16:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: HP 7905/7920 "Amigo" drives? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030414221450.507f7a62@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Is anyone here familar with these drives? I was checking some HP 1000s today and making particular note of what boot roms they contained. One of them had a label that said that it had a boot rom for the "7905/20 disk". I checked my references and found that these drives are supposed to use the Amigo/MAC protocall. I know that a lot of the older HP floppy drives (9885, 82901/902, 9121, etc) also use the Amigo prototcall. I'm wondering if that means that this 1000 can boot from one of those floppy drives. How compatible is the 7905/7920 Amigo protocall and the Amigo protocall that's used for the floppy drives? Joe From cb at mythtech.net Mon Apr 14 21:33:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: OT?: low tech computer. Message-ID: >I got sent this from a list, I thought it was funny. > >http://jokeworm.com/funlinks/funlinks6.html Ok, what OS does it run? It says Intel Inside, but has an ADB Mac Mouse connected... humm... I thought Apple's only Intel based OS was an early version of Rhapsody... and that ran on standard Intel compatible hardware, so no ADB mouse (could be an internal build of OS X for Intel, but that still wouldn't use an ADB mouse). Humm... NeXTStep maybe, using a Mac mouse as a replacement... they used ADB on some model NeXT boxes, didn't they? Color is right for a NeXT Cube. Er.. ok, I have officially taken this too seriously. -chris From anheier at owt.com Mon Apr 14 22:38:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: ISA single board computer and Hardcard 40 Message-ID: I have a Plus Hardcard 40 and a 80286-20 ISA single board ISA card available. These look to be in good shape and probably function properly. Best offer, prefer Paypal. Thanks Norm From patrick at evocative.com Mon Apr 14 23:25:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: H89 disk transfer program In-Reply-To: <200304150126.SAA04353@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > Reread my post. Uh huh. I totally read those two separate steps as being one. Can't wait to try it... Patrick From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Apr 14 23:48:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: Netframe NF450 Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030414215138.03483370@mail.zipcon.net> anyone have any netframe NF450 documentation? From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 14 23:58:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: OT: Toy Chevy's In-Reply-To: <20030414183622.GA76953@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20030412163846.1960.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <000101c3014e$d43cb110$947ba8c0@piii933> <20030413011715.GD64756@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3E9ACBFB.6050200@bestweb.net> <000801c3029a$a7b85340$0400fea9@game> <20030414183622.GA76953@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3E9B90ED.4070700@internet1.net> R. D. Davis wrote: > The Corvette frames can still rust, can't they? Old ones, yes. Newer ones are mainly aluminum, I believe. Also GM has come pretty far with rust prevention in vehicles.... dipping whole frames in wax, galvanized parts, stainless exhausts, and so on. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Apr 15 00:24:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: HP 7905/7920 "Amigo" drives? Message-ID: Take a look at the 12992-90001_loaderRomsApr86.pdf doc on Al's site. It has details of the operation of the various HP 1000 loader ROMs, including source code listings. There is a separate ROM, p/n 12992-80007 12992E, which is specifically for booting from the 9885 flexible disk. I'm not sure what interface is used to the 9885 for that loader ROM. ROM p/n 12992-80002 12992B is for MAC 7905/7920 drives, 13175A/B interface. ROM p/n 12992-80004 12992H is for HP-IB 7920H/7925H/9895 drives, 12821A interface. If you remove the memory cards from the front card cage of the 1000E CPU you should be able to see the loader ROMs and if you can read the p/n labels you should be able to reference those back to the loader ROM doc to see exactly what you have. >I know that a lot of the older HP floppy drives (9885, 82901/902, 9121, >etc) also use the Amigo prototcall. I'm wondering if that means that this >1000 can boot from one of those floppy drives. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Apr 15 01:21:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: Al, the idiot! was RE: Apple Lisa XL on eBay In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030414160333.493fee2e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001f01c30316$db1e5d70$023fcd18@D73KSM11> > Sorry to fan the flames but I suffered one of Al's meally > mouthed attacks a couple of days ago it's been eating at me. > I kept silent till now but after hearing about his attack on > Sellam I feel that it's time I made a reply. See below. > > At 10:06 AM 4/13/03 -0700, Al wrote: > >> From: Joe > >> > >> At 03:05 PM 4/12/03 -0400, you wrote: > >> >And I thought the economy was in the toilet. > >> > >> Only for the average citizen. The rich are richer > >> than ever thanks to Bush and administration (or > >> maybe I should say LACK of administration!) > >> > >> Joe > > > >You probably shouldn't say that, since it's wrong... > > > >Can we keep political commentary off this list? > > > >Especially mean-spirited partisan hate speech with no > >data to back it up? > > > >I want to hear about Classic Computers on this list. > >Not someone's partisan hatred. > > > >Thanks! > > > >Al > > Al may well be an idiot, but so are those who think this list is a place to discuss politics, or who so quickly take the bait when anyone else does. Those on the left and right political fringes (and we certainly seem to have more than our fair share of those on this list) seem to see political statements in what appear to be innocuous comments to the politically unwashed. It seems that to certain members of the list, any statement about "the economy" is pregnant with underlying political and provides a legitimate "opening" for a political rejoinder. This is opportunistic behavior that is destructive to the list. There are political issues specifically relevant to classic computers (e.g., abandonware, the DMCA, piracy, etc.) that, at least in theory, should be open for list discussion. The problem is that we are pretty lousy at doing this. Our discussions of these issues usually quickly degenerate into personal insults, which in turn tend to generate a fair amount of OT commentary to the dismay of most list members. -W From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Apr 15 01:57:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: Help nomenclature??? Message-ID: I rather thought they used ASCII text, sometimes strained through ANSI for color, but ASCII was the primary character set/map. Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Ron Hudson [mailto:rhudson@cnonline.net] Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 9:25 PM To: Classic Computers Subject: Help nomenclature??? IBM had a standard for text based user interfaces. Systems Architecure blah blah.. Many of the DOS6.2 programs exibit this user interface, like "Edit" and perhaps "Qbasic" What was that called?? Thanks. From hansp at aconit.org Tue Apr 15 01:59:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: European members Message-ID: <3E9BAD5C.5030308@aconit.org> Hi all this is a call to all european members, or should I say members in Europe?. I have been invited to write a paper about the work being done in Europe on the history of computing. I have decided to highlight the individual collectors and the valuable work they are doing. If you are in europe and collect/preserve computer hardware/software/documentation I would appreciate a short description of what you do, how big your collection is and anything else you might like to mention. I will probably highlight the contributions for just a few of you but mention all of you. Please let me know if you would be willing to be be an in depth subject which will entail an email interview. Mention also if you would prefer to remain anonymous. Finally, if you know of any other individuals working in the field who are not subscribed to this list I would be interested in hearing from them also. All contributors will receive a copy of the paper when it is completed. Regards, -- hbp From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Apr 15 02:08:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: HH drives Message-ID: Hmm... If they're FAT16 (2.1Gb max recognition), maybe you can get hold of an old copy of Partition Magic, and see if you can read them with it. Its doubtful that the drives are physically harmed, but the 0 Sector (boot and/or reference sector) will be different with each version of DOS you try. If you can boot from floppy, you may want to reformat the disks (DOS 2.11, or 3.20) and start anew. Do you know what they likely contain? Are they worth the time/effort to recover as-is? Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Alan Greenstreet [mailto:aeg@paradise.net.nz] Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 10:55 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: HH drives Hi All I have a newbie question I don't have much experience with HH type drives and recently unearthed a Wyse Technologies machine at the local refuse recycling centre (it's a shop rather than me wading though a landfill site - I'm not that desperate). Inside this machine (stated built in 1986) were two HH type 5.25" hard drives (one a Segate ST-251 the other not branded but built 1989). On boot up I get: Pheonix 80386 ROM BIOS version 3.53 (c) 1985, 1986 Pheonix Technologies Ltd 640K Base 1408K Extended Memory Hard Disk Failure I have booted the system using a floppy and one drive (the unbranded one) is partially readable. It is a 41Mb drive split into two partitions (primary & extended) - FAT16 system It seems to have been installed with DRDOS. Using my later versions of DOS on floppy I cannot get the drive to respond to any standard commands (I always get a 'Sector not found' error). Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked and now physically damaged? I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive characteristics... are they all dead? Thanks in advance Alan From SPEDRAJA at ono.com Tue Apr 15 02:13:00 2003 From: SPEDRAJA at ono.com (Sergio Pedraja Cabo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: European members Message-ID: <8dfd3918b2.918b28dfd3@ono.com> Hi ! > Hi all this is a call to all european members, or should I say > members in Europe?. All Europeans at last :-) > I have been invited to write a paper about the work being done > in Europe on the history of computing. I have decided to highlight > the individual collectors and the valuable work they are doing. Ok, Hans, I shall send you a list or document privately. Good action this :-) Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio From hansp at aconit.org Tue Apr 15 02:45:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: European members In-Reply-To: <8dfd3918b2.918b28dfd3@ono.com> References: <8dfd3918b2.918b28dfd3@ono.com> Message-ID: <3E9BB83E.2030607@aconit.org> Sergio Pedraja Cabo wrote: > Ok, Hans, I shall send you a list or document privately. > Good action this :-) Yes, please send your contributions to me not to the list, should have mentioned that in my original message. -- hbp From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Apr 15 03:15:00 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: European members Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBC05@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Oops, forgot one complete system, Hans. I also have an PDP-11/05 with PC05 and Perkin-Elmer drive. The Perkin has a removable disk and a fixed hard disk. I guess this is the *only* non-DEC part, but it boots RT-11 (V.4). cheers, - Henk. From drido at optushome.com.au Tue Apr 15 04:27:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: OT?: low tech computer. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030415192543.01127d24@mail.optushome.com.au> At 10:31 PM 4/14/03 -0400, you wrote: >>I got sent this from a list, I thought it was funny. >> >>http://jokeworm.com/funlinks/funlinks6.html > >Ok, what OS does it run? It says Intel Inside, but has an ADB Mac Mouse >connected... humm... I thought Apple's only Intel based OS was an early >version of Rhapsody... and that ran on standard Intel compatible >hardware, so no ADB mouse (could be an internal build of OS X for Intel, >but that still wouldn't use an ADB mouse). > >Humm... NeXTStep maybe, using a Mac mouse as a replacement... they used >ADB on some model NeXT boxes, didn't they? Color is right for a NeXT Cube. > >Er.. ok, I have officially taken this too seriously. > >-chris > No idea where I'd look to find the link now, but ages ago I saw a similar pic. It was of a prop made for a movie (according to the site I saw it on). The guts of a compact mac including the CRT were mounted in an underwood typewriter. No visible ADB mouse, floppy drive, and definitely no intel inside badge. I don't know how functional it is if at all, but the desktop on the CRT didn't look faked. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 15 05:57:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: It's Alive! (HP 1000) Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030415065519.3bf70a82@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Last night I cleaned up the HP 1000 that I picked up a couple of days ago and double-checked everything. Then I powered it up. It came up with no problems. Next I punched in some code into the front panel and run it. I spent three hours or more changing the program around, moving it to different memory locations, running it with different data, etc. Everything is working perfectly. The two broken switches haven't been a problem. I just poke my finger into the hole in the panel and press the contacts. Now I have to get busy and built a terminal cable and hook up hard drive. Joe From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 10:19:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: Unhappy Amiga 3000 (was Re: New Finds for teh Museum) In-Reply-To: <029201c302f2$0130ea70$6d0bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20030415151638.29874.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > Well the last few days have been fun and I got the following items: > A vintage Hasbro Think-A-Tron toy computer that works great. Cool. > An AMIGA A3000 needs some tender loving care, will not power up right > now. No lights? No nothing? The A3000 PSU is not exactly the most robust thing in the world. It's also small enough that a non-C= replacement will be troublesome. I don't recall if that is one of the models or not, but some C= PSUs provide 60Hz "tick" to the CIAs (some, like the A500, do not). -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Tue Apr 15 10:48:00 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: Interfacing an HP 9134 HDD to my HP 85 Message-ID: Hello, I am having trouble interfacing an HP 9134 HDD to my HP 85. I have connected other drives without difficulty such as the 9121D so I believe the computer is set up properly. I recently picked up a 9134A HD. It apparently emulates a 9895A 8" flexible drive and 3 slaves each with 1.15MB capacity. I set the HP-IB address to zero on the HD and typed MASS STORAGE is ":D700". I then typed CAT and Initialize and keep getting a "Timeout". Also if I turn the 85 on with the HD connected and running and type CAT the HD does not respond as my 9121 would without typing a mass storage is command. Can I assume the drive is bad or am I using the wrong syntax. The drive spins up nicely, and the light comes on but I get that error message and the disk access light does not come on. I hate to toss this drive into the dumpster if it is functional. Thank you for your thoughts. Bob H From alhartman at yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 11:15:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #556 - 46 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030415012800.80788.95858.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030415161328.37453.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> > From: Doc Shipley > > I find myself in the highly amusing position of > siding with Sellam, > sort of. > > I refuse to take seriously anything that is > quoted out of context. > You haven't posted his entire messages, nor the full > text of your own side of the exchange. As a matter of fact, I did. Those ARE his entire messages in full. They are NOT out of context. Anyone who would like to read my replies may e-mail me off list to get them. I will send them in full. > You did mention in your previous post that you > *had* used the term "Islamic Idiot", "although not > referring to Sellam himself." Al, that > was pretty dumb, at best, and malicious at worst. So, you don't think that celebrating the death of courageous Astronauts, and using their death to claim that Allah was against the U.S. and punished it wasn't "pretty dumb, at best, and malicious at worst."? I stand by my comment. I think people who are trying to make this a war against Islam, rather than a war against Terrorists ARE idiots. And what's funny... It's the Radical Islamics themselves who keep trying to drag all of Islam into the fray. I can only speak for me, but I have MANY, MANY friends who are Islamic. And I enjoy the lives and work of many other people who are followers of Islam. And I would reject in the loudest terms that All of Islam is bad. > Especially considering that Sellam is well and > widely known for trumping with the race card, and > for being very sensitive concerning his heritage. That's not my problem. I don't take offense when people talk about Germans, or Italians or Irish. And if you haven't missed it... Two of the three have been major enemies of the U.S. in wars in the last century, and the last one has been the cause of lots of terrorism as well... I don't take any of that personally, as being German, Irish and Italian does not mean I am a Nazi, a Fascist, or an IRA Terrorist. If others can't seperate themselves from what other people do, either they need some help.. Or feel connected in feeings and desires. I can't control either. But, I won't be stifled in my opinions because someone else wants to coddle people doing wrong because their feelings might be hurt. Sorry. When someone does wrong, they deserve to recieve the negative reaction from it. It's how society shows it's displeasure at wrong actions. > > I am posting this to the list so that members can > > observe for themselves the behavior of one of it's > > members... > > We all know how Sellam behaves on list, and many > of us have been exposed to his behavior off list. > I vote "not interested" There's enough crap here > without dragging up more from outside. Ok.. I posted these messages because I want it to stop. I want him to stop doing this, rather than having it tolerated. You say you know about it. How about doing something about it, rather than letting others be attacked and harrassed by him? Because, I'm not willing to just ignore him and allow him to attack others on the list in the future. That's wrong. If he does not receive strong admonishment and feedback that his behaviour is unacceptable (and just letting him go on and do it unchallenged tells him it's ok....), why would he ever stop? He dominates this list and uses it to support his business. He receives a HUGE benefit from this list, that I would not deny him. In return for that, he needs to control himself and treat members of this list with the respect he himself receives. > You know who the maintainer is, if you have a > problem with someone's behavior on the list. You > evidently know also how to contact Sellam's > ISP. If you're being threatened, I suggest > contacting your local LEA. I do NOT know who the maintainer is. Can you give me an E-Mail Address for them? I simply sent copies of Sellam's Email and a complaint to "Postmaster@hisdomain". For all I know, that is he himself, and he got the complaint and is snickering about it... So, posting to this list was an attempt to get others to cooperate in stopping his hate, without resorting to the "LEA" (What is that?) or another Govermental Agency. > But none of what you've posted here is useful here, > and it comes off as simple character assassination. I did nothing to assasinate his character. If reposting his messages does that, that's his problem. I don't post anything that I don't want to come back to haunt me. I certainly don't post messages to people off the list and curse at them, or call them nasty names. OR, falsely accuse them of being racist... LOL! > > Doc Thanks Doc! I appreciate the time and thought that went into your post. Regards, Al Hartman The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Apr 15 11:30:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #556 - 46 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030415161328.37453.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Anyone who would like to read my replies may e-mail me > off list to get them. I will send them in full. Why would anyone want to get involved with your little fight, except just for curiousity? Honestly, man, you are just making yourself look foolish. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From alhartman at yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 11:37:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:01 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #556 - 46 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030415012800.80788.95858.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030415163520.68138.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> > From: Joe > Subject: Al, the idiot! was RE: Apple Lisa XL on > eBay > > Al, what are you, some king of F***** idiot? > That certainly didn't qualify as hate speech or > "mean-spirited". As for backing it up, where have > you been for the last year? Did you miss the news > that Enron, Adelphi, World Com and a number of other > companies have been looted and ruined by their own > management? Not only did they wipe out their > companies but they also wiped out the life savings > and retirements of tens of thousands of their > company employees and millions of stock holders. What does that have to do with George Bush? > That's just one example of the lack of > administration that I was referring to. Certainly. But of the Clinton Administration, where all this happened during... Not the current Administration. > The gouging of the american consumers by the oil > companies is another. Gas prices have nearly > doubled in the past six months or have you been > living in a cave somewhere and not noticed? I have NOT been living in a cave, and again... How is that the fault of the Bush Administration? If you haven't noticed, his actions have caused the oil prices to start to go back down. Oil prices ALWAYS peak in Winter, and threats of war in the Middle East ALWAYS cause Oil prices to go up, whether the Oil supply is threatened or not. To suggest that Bush leave Saddam to continue to develop WMD's, build up a military to attack his neighbors, and to murder and torture his own citizens is selfish in the extreme. It's a price we have to pay to secure the future safety of the U.S., and the region. > In both cases the perpetraitors are major > supporters (read $$$$) of the Bush administartion. AND the major supporters (read $$$$) of the Clinton Administration AND ALL political parties... Any smart major corporations funds BOTH parties... > Don't get me wrong, I'm a registered Republican, > but I won't stand by and say nothing while the Bush > administration stands idlely by and l! Great to hear that. But, because it's taking longer than you or I would like, doesn't mean they are standing Idlely by... > ets their big dollar supporters rob the american > public. Why don't you ask the members of this list > how many of them have lost their jobs entirely or > have had to take jobs far below their capabilities > because of the lousy economy and stock market? I have myself. And I lost my good job not because of Action of the Bush Administration (that has only been in office about 28 months... But due to the actions over 8 years of the previous one. To expect the current administration to reverse 8 years (actually 12 years, since Bush 41 made some bad moves as well in regards to taxes and our economy) in 28 months is impatient. Especially considering that 9/11 caused TRILLIONS in damage to this economy. The fact that it is as strong as it still is, and rebounding is a testament to his good leadership. We could be a LOT worse off. I still remember the Carter days.... And this ain't those. Anyone who is slamming this administration for the economy or it's leadership has a very short memory. Our economy has been A LOT worse off in recent memory, and isn't so bad now. And is getting better by the day. The President just made a speech, that should kick the market up a few more points today. I just read an article on the CBS website that says that MOST Americans believe that Bush is doing a good job and the economy today is better than a year ago. That's why I called your post nasty and mean-spirited. Because it goes counter to the data in the world. The data that the economy is improving, and that people say Bush is doing a GREAT job as President. > If you wanted to hear about classic computers then > why did you even reply to this message, why didn't > you just ignore it and go on? No one else felt it > necessary to jump in and grossly exaggerate what I > said. They believe in letting stuff pass, or agree with YOUR Gross Exaggeration. It was your message that was the gross exaggeration. Not mine. Sorry. Go pick up any newspaper today, or listen to the news tonight. I don't think you'll find much agreement with your post in them. > Not only did you feel it necessary to mouth > off on the CC-Talk list but you also posted your > batherings to the CC-Tech list! I am not subscribed to the CC-Tech list. If it went there, it was purely by accident. > As a matter of fact, I don't remember ever seeing a > message from you that was about computers. You haven't been looking then. > But you're always eager to but in and shot off your > mouth when someone expresses their opinion! Yes, if I disagree with it... > In the mean time, your village is looking for > you! I assume by this you intend to say I am liberal? Because that is FAR, FAR from the truth. > > Joe > > PS you don't need to bother to reply, you've > just been added to my permanent kill-file. > > Typical. If you took the time to talk to me, rather than making the harsh assumptions you make in the last few paragraphs of your post. You'd find we agree on a lot of things (except your post), and you might even like me (most people do who take the time to get to know me..). I've posted quite a bit in the last few months on computers. But, I'm out of my depth with the major iron that people talk about here. Ask me anything about HP Laserjet II/III, TRS-80's, Coco's (I worked for Spectrum Projects and wrote for Rainbow Magazine), Timex/Sinclairs (I wrote the front end for a lot of Zebra's Products and the manuals), and Mac Emulation... And while I used an Imsai 8080 (with a Z-80 CPU Card) for several years to run a small mail-order business in the mid-80's. I know little about it, as I only used it. I didn't assemble it or maintain it. I can say, it was a nice machine and did everything we asked of it well. I wonder what Stewart did with it? That was at Zebra Systems, Inc. where we made add-ons for the Timex/Sinclair Computers, Tandy Color Computer, Commodore Amiga and the Atari ST computers. Stewart also used to make something called the "Music Box" and "Rhythym Box" for S-100 Systems and the TRS-80 Computers. It was the fore-runner of the Orchestra-80, which Stewart always claimed was a cheaper knock-off of the much nicer Music Box. A minor mod of the Music Box software or Orch-80 Software made them run on the other hardware. I think just a change in which port one addressed with the music data was all... Regards, Al Hartman The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 15 12:42:00 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 in the first Computer Museum of Nova Scotia In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030415065519.3bf70a82@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I found myself a "holy grail" :) I was lucky and acquired a Kenbak-1 computer from 1971. The computer is in really good condition considering the age. With the computer came the original "student laboratory manual". It was published by C.T.I (Consulting Technologies, Inc). They were the sales agent for the Kenbak-1 back then. I just got the Kenbak today so naturally I'm very excited about it. I will take pictures and publish them on my website soon. Is there anybody on this list who owns a Kenbak-1? I would love some information exchange. Greetings Herbert The First Computer Museum of Nova Scotia From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 13:11:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" In-Reply-To: <20030413152517.17039.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <20030415180849.22922.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: > >> These are probably TBC's needed for two tape inputs for the Toaster. > >> They only got DC power from the ISA buss. > > > > Ah. I kind of thought that. It's an AT card-edge, which would be > > incredibly slow graphics. Not necessarily. Most PC gfx cards only > > shuffle control data, not the actual digital vidio on the ISA buss. Plus, without something like a GG2 Bus+ or an A2088/A2286 BridgeCard, the AT bus in the Amiga is inert. The slots are wired to each other and to power and ground, but nowhere else. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 15 13:11:19 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: H89 disk transfer program Message-ID: <200304151809.LAA04699@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Here is the code I have so far. I've shortened it a bunch but I don't think I can get it much shorter. I desided not to use any special Z80 instructions because I want this to work with the H8's as well ( these are 8080 box's but can run HDOS ). It is down to about 42 ( decimal ) bytes. If anyone can remove some more that would be great. I'm using the over writing of the jump address at the end of the code to stop loading and begin using the main down loader. This saved quite a bit of code but it means that I need to load the main loader backwards. This is a pain but not that big of a deal, compared to typing in a lot of bytes. For this code, if someone thinks of some other method that does something like self modifying code, I'm game to that. This is a boot strap and the key is being small. There are no other rules. I thought it would be a good idea to also have the ability in the main loader to save the main loader to disk as a bootable image. This would make it easier because one wouldn't need to keep typing in the first bootstrap loader every time one got more images to load, like a week later. Dwight BOOTSTRP.ASM ; 42 BYTE BOOTSTRAP LOADER WITH INIT FOR 8250 ; INTENDED FOR THE H89 BUT MAY ASLO WORK ON H8. ORG 2300H LDR: XRA A OUT LCNTL ; LINE CONTROL OUT IER ; NO INTERRUPTS OUT MCNTL ; INIT MODEM CONTROL DCR A ; SHOULD BE 'MVI A, 80H' BUT 0FFH OK? OUT LCNTL MVI A, 0CH ; 9600 BAUD OUT DVL XRA A OUT DVH MVI A, 07H ; 8 BIT 2 STOPS OUT LCNTL IN LSTAT IN RX ; CLEAR ANY JUNK LXI H, 2400H ; DEPENDS ON SIZE (TO BE DETERMINED) LDR1: IN LSTAT ANI 01 JZ LDR1 ; WAIT FOR CHAR IN RX MOV M,A DCX H JMP LDR ; ADDRESS TO BE OVER WRITTEN BY CODE LOADED From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 13:16:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" In-Reply-To: <20030413082206.26774.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <20030415181415.68159.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: > You're kinda SOL without a keyboard... The mouse is incompatible as > well... If you can't locate a used Amiga mouse, it's possible to rewire a MicroSoft Bus Mouse - they are electrically, but not physically, compatible - raw quadrature output, X-PhaseA, X-PhaseB, Y-PhaseA, Y-PhaseB, Left and Right button. The only active components are IR LEDs and phototransistors. No chips. There's also instructions out on the web to hack an Atari Trackball to the Amiga - I've done it with one from a 7800 and from some other console model (5300?) - unfortunately, my really nice hacked Wico unit was stolen in 1990 when they got my A500... it was still compatible with the Atari... I just put an additional DE-9 on the side, and you just used the right connector, depending on the target. *Great* for Marble Madness. :-) -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Apr 15 13:23:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Need caddy for RRD-42DA DEC CD-ROM drive In-Reply-To: <200304141804.h3EI42ue017415@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <001401c3037b$c017c5b0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Actually, I could use more than one. Just checking since I've seen others slip before ... The RRD42 takes the standard "flip-top" caddy that must have been made in their millions. The older RRD40 takes the somewhat harder to find "antlers" caddy that is a pig to use. Did you mean the harder to get hold of RRD40 one? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Apr 15 14:37:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Old Computer Books - what to do? (fwd) Message-ID: This is a forwarded message from a.f.c. Don't reply to me for details. -brian. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 15 Apr 2003 11:30:13 -0700 >From: Patrick Connors Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Old Computer Books - what to do? I'm about to do a Major Purge of my library. Part of that library is a collection of old microcomputer books (catalog not yet available - I'll post a pointer when it becomes available), which I kept around for historical purposes. We're talking, Apple II; the original TRS-80, and a big basket of random Bytes and Amiga magazines. Possibly even a Creative Computing or two. Since I'm never going to start a proper historical computer library, I'd like to offer these books to interested parties. Not looking for money or even recognition* here, just space on my bookshelves and Less Stuff to Manage. It was suggested elsewhere that I try here. Also, ebay and half.com have already been mentiioned as possibilities, but I'm after the shelf space not the money. Any ideas? And, yes, interested individuals may apply. - Patrick Connors, lost in his own library, never to return... *My ego claims otherwise and points out that recognition is good, where applicable. My wallet will accept reimbursement for shipping, if offered. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 15 15:05:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Interfacing an HP 9134 HDD to my HP 85 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030415160156.0f27b20e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:52 AM 4/15/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, > >I am having trouble interfacing an HP 9134 HDD to my HP 85. I have connected >other drives without difficulty such as the 9121D so I believe the computer >is set up properly. > >I recently picked up a 9134A HD. It apparently emulates a 9895A 8" flexible >drive and 3 slaves each with 1.15MB capacity. I'm not sure that the 9134A will work, you may need the 9133 or 9134 VX model. I've seen a great deal of contradictory info in the HP catalogs and manuals. According to some docs you also have to have the correct option. On SOME models there is a switch inside that can be used to set the 9895 emulation mode (that's all there is to the option). Some VX models have the switch and some don't. After YEARS of looking I've finally found one and maybe two of the right models. One of them has problems. I just got the other yesterday and I THINK if has the necessary switch but I haven't opened it to be sure. I just dug out my HP 9000 series 200 configuration manual and it says that the 9134A does use the Amigo protocall and will emulate four 9895s. It also says that the option 010 drive is a single unit (ie one 5 Mb drive) so if your's is a 010 then you need to change the switch setting. > >I set the HP-IB address to zero on the HD and typed MASS STORAGE is ":D700". Try using "D700,0", "D700,1", "D700,2" and "D700,3", That will address the individual logical drive units. >I then typed CAT and Initialize and keep getting a "Timeout". Also if I turn >the 85 on with the HD connected and running and type CAT the HD does not >respond as my 9121 would without typing a mass storage is command. > >Can I assume the drive is bad or am I using the wrong syntax. The drive >spins up nicely, and the light comes on but I get that error message and the >disk access light does not come on. Turn off the drive, unplug the HP-IB cable, turn the drive on and it will do a self test. If the fault light goes out and the power light isn't blinking after about 1 minute then there's about a 99% chance that the drive is good. (Note: the power light may go off or it may stay on, different drives are different.) If you get any abnormal indications then the drive is probably bad. HINT: on some (all?) HP HP-IB drives the heads will park automaticly after the self-test if you power it up with the HP-IB disconnected. A handy thing to keep in mind before you ship or transport the deive. > >I hate to toss this drive into the dumpster if it is functional. Don't toss it if it self-tests ok. It can still be used with other HP computers. Joe > >Thank you for your thoughts. > >Bob H From aeg at paradise.net.nz Tue Apr 15 15:08:00 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Modem Message-ID: <20B654AE-6F7E-11D7-8308-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> Hi All Was just browsing ebay and this might be of interest to someone on the list... (not my auction, don't know the seller etc) TRS-80 Modem 1 (Radio Shack) currently at $5 with about 5 hours left to go. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3412343006&category=3692 Alan From at258 at osfn.org Tue Apr 15 15:20:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: new gifts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Today we got to visit two donors and preview some of the things they have for us. The first is rehabilitating the 1894 Standard-Times Building in New Bedford, MA. Even in its derelict state, this building is beautiful. We have been offered the paper's old computer systems on the 4th floor. The elevators are gone however and removing them would involve either bringing each rach down a narrow winding staircase for the whole 4 floors, or high level defenestration. The good news is that the donor will bring the equipment to the sidewalk for us to load. The systems are two identical DEC PDP-11/70's that seem to date from the early 1980's. There are two CDC 9766 drives and a nice DEC LP26 printer, plus 6-8 terminals. The systems have not been powered on since 1996. They also seem to bear the name of an aftermarket supplier - Systems Industries?- and some sort of system name, which I cannot remember, but suggests typesetting. Our second visit in East Providence, RI let us view the ca1930-35 Art Deco transmitting facility of WEAN. Although not 100% original, the bulk of the original features are there, including the original black and chrome decor. The original transmitter has been replaced twice, but an 80's era Harris MW-5A is the main unit, with a 40's era RCA as a fully functioning backup. The building itself is cast concrete with the main transmitter rooms flanked by office and attendant's living space. This is truly a beautiful building. As most space is now used for storage, we looked over and were given a Printronix, a GE paper terminal and a Data General Nova 4, all in excellent condition, and an American Anadex printer. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Apr 15 15:48:01 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Unhappy Amiga 3000 (was Re: New Finds for teh Museum) In-Reply-To: <20030415151638.29874.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030415151638.29874.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030415204425.26016.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Ethan Dicks writes: >> An AMIGA A3000 needs some tender loving care, will not power up right >> now. > > No lights? No nothing? The A3000 PSU is not exactly the most > robust thing in the world. It's also small enough that a non-C= > replacement will be troublesome. I don't recall if that is one > of the models or not, but some C= PSUs provide 60Hz "tick" to > the CIAs (some, like the A500, do not). > > -ethan I'd just try to find a smaller SMPS that will put out 5v and +/-12v that will fit in the box of the original. ISTR that it is only good for 150 watts anyway. Hanging on a larger external PS would be rather tacky. I'd look through Jameco or MPJones catalogs to find such a critter. Anything that is original Amiga is far too much money for what you get. Check the PS voltages first before comming yourself to major surgery. You might just have a shorted bypass cap or something else easy to fix. The 60Hz 'tick' was on the old CBM 8 bit machines. They had a seperate 10vAC input that was tapped for that, as well as provide 12 volts for the analog circuitry. The A500 PS only provided DC voltages. Drop me a line off-list if you need any help there. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Apr 15 15:51:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: new gifts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The systems are two identical DEC PDP-11/70's that seem to date from the > early 1980's. There are two CDC 9766 drives and a nice DEC LP26 printer, > plus 6-8 terminals. The systems have not been powered on since 1996. > They also seem to bear the name of an aftermarket supplier - Systems > Industries?- and some sort of system name, which I cannot remember, but > suggests typesetting. SI made lots of disk products for DECs. At one point I had a somewhat trashed Diablo drive for a PDP-8/E (RKmumble), with an SI interface board and power supply. I still have the power unit, if anyone os interested, but the rest is long gone. SI also made a neato disk cache for the VAX-11/780. Neato, as it had an LED bar graph for the hit rate! No stinkin' ten LED doodad this - this graph had *many* LEDs, because you never know when you will need to know just how precise your cache is... > Our second visit in East Providence, RI let us view the ca1930-35 Art Deco > transmitting facility of WEAN. Although not 100% original, the bulk of > the original features are there, including the original black and chrome > decor. The original transmitter has been replaced twice, but an 80's > era Harris MW-5A is the main unit, with a 40's era RCA as a fully > functioning backup. Do you remember what kind? Shame on you for noting the modern Harris but not the classic RCA... Generally broadcast transmitters and computers don't mix. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 15 15:54:01 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Xerox 16/8 Professional Computer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030415160156.0f27b20e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Does anybody know where I could find manuals for the Xerox 16/8 Professional Computer? Thanks Herbert From tosteve at yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 16:13:01 2003 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered" In-Reply-To: <20030415181415.68159.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030415211053.86192.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> I have Amiga 2000 keyboards and mice available. Who needs what where?! Steve. http://oldcomputers.net --- Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: > > You're kinda SOL without a keyboard... The mouse > is incompatible as > > well... > > If you can't locate a used Amiga mouse, it's > possible to rewire a > MicroSoft Bus Mouse - they are electrically, but not > physically, > compatible - raw quadrature output, X-PhaseA, > X-PhaseB, Y-PhaseA, > Y-PhaseB, Left and Right button. The only active > components are > IR LEDs and phototransistors. No chips. > > There's also instructions out on the web to hack an > Atari Trackball > to the Amiga - I've done it with one from a 7800 and > from some other > console model (5300?) - unfortunately, my really > nice hacked Wico > unit was stolen in 1990 when they got my A500... it > was still > compatible with the Atari... I just put an > additional DE-9 on the > side, and you just used the right connector, > depending on the target. > *Great* for Marble Madness. :-) > > -ethan > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 15 16:22:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: H89 disk transfer program Message-ID: <200304152119.OAA04786@clulw009.amd.com> Code Oops! see below: >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >Hi > Here is the code I have so far. I've shortened it a ---snip--- > > BOOTSTRP.ASM > >; 42 BYTE BOOTSTRAP LOADER WITH INIT FOR 8250 >; INTENDED FOR THE H89 BUT MAY ASLO WORK ON H8. > > > ORG 2300H >LDR: XRA A > OUT LCNTL ; LINE CONTROL > OUT IER ; NO INTERRUPTS > OUT MCNTL ; INIT MODEM CONTROL > DCR A ; SHOULD BE 'MVI A, 80H' BUT 0FFH OK? > OUT LCNTL > MVI A, 0CH ; 9600 BAUD > OUT DVL > XRA A > OUT DVH > MVI A, 07H ; 8 BIT 2 STOPS > OUT LCNTL > IN LSTAT > IN RX ; CLEAR ANY JUNK > LXI H, 2400H ; DEPENDS ON SIZE (TO BE DETERMINED) >LDR1: IN LSTAT > ANI 01 > JZ LDR1 ; WAIT FOR CHAR > IN RX > MOV M,A > DCX H > JMP LDR ; ADDRESS TO BE OVER WRITTEN BY CODE LOADED > should be: JMP LDR1 ; ADDRESS TO BE OVER WRITTEN BY CODE LOADED Later Dwight From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 15 16:26:00 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks Message-ID: Hi folks, I have an HP 9133 HDD that I'm going to have to re-format (for an HP based measuring system). The drive already has quite a lot of software on it that it seems a shame to destroy. I've stuck a bus analyser on the drive and had a quick look at the data passing back and forth between a controller and it. I think that I can control the drive OK (using cs80 protocol) from a PC with HPIB controller card - i.e. I can identify the drive, check block sizes and pull data off or write data to the drive. It strikes me that an application that enables the information on a cs/80 drive to be pulled onto a PC, backed-up on another format (e.g. CD ROM) and then written back to the cs80 drive would be useful - does such an application already exist? With the data clocks off the drive, I'm having a few problems working out the actual format that HP use to record files on the disk. It looks as though the first block on the disk (block 0) contains information about the volume label, number of blocks available, number of blocks allocated etc. (and I assume the length of the catalog). The next few blocks seem to contain the catalog information itself - file names, start locations lengths, file types etc. Does anyone have access to details of the format that HP use to store files on cs80 protocol disks/tapes? (I already have a document 'cs/80 instruction set' dated March 1983 that has proved invaluable in understanding the messages between the controller and disk drive.) Any help much appreciated. Cheers Peter Brown _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From at258 at osfn.org Tue Apr 15 16:33:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: new gifts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All I call is the beautiful RCA broadcast transmitter logo in red and black. It's either ca 1942 or 1948, but incredibly beautiful. The backside is somewhat reminiscent of an Ardent. It's about 5-6 feet tall and 12-15 feet long, plus an external transformer. Easily 3times the size of the Harris. The Nova is also ex-WEAN, apparently. If only the building could be restored. Some of the glass brick has been replaced with cement block. When we get moved, you'll have to come see the new warehouse. On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > > The systems are two identical DEC PDP-11/70's that seem to date from the > > early 1980's. There are two CDC 9766 drives and a nice DEC LP26 printer, > > plus 6-8 terminals. The systems have not been powered on since 1996. > > They also seem to bear the name of an aftermarket supplier - Systems > > Industries?- and some sort of system name, which I cannot remember, but > > suggests typesetting. > > SI made lots of disk products for DECs. At one point I had a somewhat > trashed Diablo drive for a PDP-8/E (RKmumble), with an SI interface board > and power supply. I still have the power unit, if anyone os interested, > but the rest is long gone. > > SI also made a neato disk cache for the VAX-11/780. Neato, as it had an > LED bar graph for the hit rate! No stinkin' ten LED doodad this - this > graph had *many* LEDs, because you never know when you will need to know > just how precise your cache is... > > > Our second visit in East Providence, RI let us view the ca1930-35 Art Deco > > transmitting facility of WEAN. Although not 100% original, the bulk of > > the original features are there, including the original black and chrome > > decor. The original transmitter has been replaced twice, but an 80's > > era Harris MW-5A is the main unit, with a 40's era RCA as a fully > > functioning backup. > > Do you remember what kind? Shame on you for noting the modern Harris but > not the classic RCA... > > Generally broadcast transmitters and computers don't mix. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From aknight at mindspring.com Tue Apr 15 16:36:00 2003 From: aknight at mindspring.com (Alex Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Interfacing an HP 9134 HDD to my HP 85 Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20030415163124.00f16f10@mail.mindspring.com> Hi Bob & Joe, At 04/15/03 12:01 PM Joe wrote ... > > At 11:52 AM 4/15/03 -0400, you wrote: > >Hello, > > > >I am having trouble interfacing an HP 9134 HDD to my HP 85. I have >connected > >other drives without difficulty such as the 9121D so I believe the >computer > >is set up properly. > > > >I recently picked up a 9134A HD. It apparently emulates a 9895A 8" >flexible > >drive and 3 slaves each with 1.15MB capacity. > > I'm not sure that the 9134A will work, you may need the 9133 or 9134 VX >model. The 9134A will work just fine with a HP85. It's the same as a 9135A without the 5.25" floppy drive that the 9135A has. I've used a 9135A with both the HP85/87 family machines and with a HP9835B. > >I set the HP-IB address to zero on the HD and typed MASS STORAGE is >":D700". > > Try using "D700,0", "D700,1", "D700,2" and "D700,3", That will address >the individual logical drive units. I believe those commands are for a 9826 or something else. On the HP85, the 9134A/9135A drives emulate four 9895 8" floppy drives (approximately 1.2 Mbytes each). If the unit address switches are set for 0, the individual logical drive units are ":D700", ":D701", "D702", and "D703" on the HP85. >I then typed CAT and Initialize and keep getting a "Timeout". Also if I >turn > >the 85 on with the HD connected and running and type CAT the HD does not > >respond as my 9121 would without typing a mass storage is command. > > > >Can I assume the drive is bad or am I using the wrong syntax. The drive > >spins up nicely, and the light comes on but I get that error message and >the > >disk access light does not come on. I had much the same trouble with the hard drive in my 9135A when I got it. It appears that the drive mechanism got "sticky" during a long period of storage. Much of the other stuff I got from the same lot as the 9135A was rusty. Anyhow, with some encouragement from list member Vassilis, I opened up the case, unscrewed the hard drive (I think it's an ST-506) from the mounting hardware and set it on it's side, still hooked up, and was able to eventually get the disk to initialize. It took a number of tries before I could get all four partitions to initialize, but once I got them all going, it worked fine. I would try MASS STORAGE IS ":D700" and then INITIALIZE. If that doesn't work, then try the same thing with ":D701", then ":D702", then ":D703". I wouldn't give up unless you've tried it multiple times, alternating between partitions. If you do decide to open up the case, you can see an arm on the side of the drive that is supposed to move - it moves about 90 degrees going from the :D700 partition to the :D701 partition. Once I got it working on the HP85 I tried it using my 9835B with Mass Storage ROM, but I had to re-initialize the partitions I wanted to use with the 9835B because they weren't compatible with the HP85 (too bad, I'd hoped to be able to transfer data that way). Right now I have two partitions in HP85 format and two in 9835 format. At least Bob got the hard drive in his 9134A. I bought a second one that was listed on eBay that ended later the same day as his, and when it arrived I found that the unit had been stripped and there was no hard drive inside :-( Anybody have a spare ST-506??? Hope this helps, Alex The Calculator Museum Web Page http://www.calcmuseum.com From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 16:49:00 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 in the first Computer Museum of Nova Scotia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030415214705.10899.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> Great find, good pictures of the Kenbak-1 are hard to find on the net, a couple detailed pictures of the inside and back would be nice. It is the "holy grail", or at least one of them, my holy grail is the CM2, here is one for sale, if only I had room....! http://www.paulos.net/other/cm2.html steve --- The Design Fort DTP wrote: > Hi all, > > I found myself a "holy grail" :) I was lucky and > acquired a Kenbak-1 > computer from 1971. The computer is in really good > condition considering the > age. With the computer came the original "student > laboratory manual". It was > published by C.T.I (Consulting Technologies, Inc). > They were the sales agent > for the Kenbak-1 back then. > I just got the Kenbak today so naturally I'm very > excited about it. I will > take pictures and publish them on my website soon. > > Is there anybody on this list who owns a Kenbak-1? I > would love some > information exchange. > > Greetings > Herbert > The First Computer Museum of Nova Scotia The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From aeg at paradise.net.nz Tue Apr 15 16:50:00 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: New finds Message-ID: <5EAC4D3A-6F8C-11D7-8308-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> Hi I just thought I'd share with you a few of my finds this week (maybe someone will be able to shed a little light on one or two items?) Sinclair Spectrum+ (nice condition in its original box) complete with data cassette, joystick, games and thermal printer. I've already had this up and running. Dick Smith VZ-200 (again good condition) complete with 16kb memory expansion (taking it to a heady 24kb), twin joystick adaptor. No power supply with this but I've found out it takes 10V 800mA so that shouldn't be too hard to rig up. Apparently these were sold in Australia between 1983 and 1989, the VZ-200 being the first of the model range. It uses the Z80 processor. (For those that don't know Dick Smith is a Radio Shack style electronics outlet - he used to use the catchy but rather self depreciating slogan "The Electronic Dick" ) IBM 122-key keyboard - this is the clicky type board with 24 function buttons across the top and a group of preset functions to the left of the main qwerty board. It has an 8 pin RJ45 style plug (rather than the 4 pin versions I've seen on Digital and Wyse keyboards). I don't know where this comes from or what it was originally hooked up to. Commodore PC10-III (this is the small case version) very clean condition, came with the keyboard but no monitor. It powers up without a problem. Canon A-200 (that is the model stated on the back) This powers up fine but the inbuilt graphics card does not like my mono monitor (in fact my monitor doesn't like most cards, I must get around to changing it). It has twin 5.25" floppies with a rather neat eject system that requires you to push the button to lock the disk in and also to eject it (well, I thought it was neat anyway). There is no hard disk but it came with a boot floppy of a really cut down version of DOS 2.11 and a word processing programme. I don't have a keyboard or anything else for that matter with this. I can't find any information on the web about this computer, it appears to have an 8086 or 8088 chip - I haven't dismantled it all yet. Anyone know about this one? Advanced Electronic Applications PAKRATT model PK-64 radio modem. This is for the Commodore 64, SX64 and C128 (in C64 emulation mode). It came with the manual, power adaptor and cables. In the blurb it states that you can send and receive Morse, Baudot, ASCII, Amtor and AX.25 V2.0 (or below - but to receive morse you need the HFM-64 module). I haven't tested this and don't have a C64 or Ham radio... it was just one of those strange add-ons that would have bugged me if I'd let it pass. A couple of 2400 and 9600 modems and a box full of cards that I haven't gone through yet. Not a bad week in all. Alan From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Apr 15 16:55:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Modem In-Reply-To: <20B654AE-6F7E-11D7-8308-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> References: <20B654AE-6F7E-11D7-8308-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <0c1dbbe34b.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <20B654AE-6F7E-11D7-8308-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> Alan Greenstreet wrote: > Was just browsing ebay and this might be of interest to someone on the > list... > (not my auction, don't know the seller etc) [snip] For the benefit of the list, I've created a MakeAShorterLink tag for the item: http://makeashorterlink.com/?J34621934 Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From acme at ao.net Tue Apr 15 17:03:01 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: DEC newbie (was need caddy for RRD-42DA CD-ROM drive) Message-ID: <200304152201.h3FM1Due021838@eola.ao.net> From: Antonio Carlini > Just checking since I've seen others slip before ... > > The RRD42 takes the standard "flip-top" caddy that > must have been made in their millions. Well, that's a relief. Can you point me to a source for these common caddies? I have ZERO experience with DEC equipment but recently acquired a VaxStation 3100 m76, with the specific goal in mind of gaining familiarity with DEC gear and VMS. I'll be pestering the list with a lot of newbie questions as things progress . . . Later -- Glen 0/0 From acme at ao.net Tue Apr 15 17:03:16 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Will you please stop your OT posts? Message-ID: <200304152201.h3FM1Due021851@eola.ao.net> Mr. Hartman -- I now add my voice to the voices of others who have repeatedly requested that you stop your grossly off-topic and impolite posts to this list. Will you please stop this? > Anyone who would like to read my replies may e-mail me > off list to get them. I will send them in full. Your continued attempt to justify your actions (posting private messages to a public list) is very distasteful to me, and I'm sure others also find it so. > I can't control either. But, I won't be stifled in my > opinions because someone else wants to coddle people The fact that you have an opinion does not entitle you to use this list to express that opinion. We are all here as guests. > I posted these messages because I want it to stop. > > I want him to stop doing this, rather than having it > tolerated. You have no control over what others choose to tolerate, regardless of what you "want." > You say you know about it. How about doing something > about it, rather than letting others be attacked and > harrassed by him? If Sellam should "attack" and/or "harass" someone other than yourself, is that not their battle to fight? > Because, I'm not willing to just ignore him and allow > him to attack others on the list in the future. I am not at all sure what you are suggesting here, but I *am* sure that I don't like the sound of it. Since you do not have the power to banish Sellam or anyone else from this list, and since such a banishment would still not prevent Sellam or anyone else from sending private email messages, the above-quoted statement implies that you are prepared to take *some other course of action* to achieve your stated goals. Mr. Hartman, I am certain that posting such sentiments to a public forum is not a wise thing to do. > In return for that, he needs to control himself and > treat members of this list with the respect he himself > receives. Mr. Hartman, who *are* you to state as a fact your opinion of what anyone needs to do, on this list or off? > So, posting to this list was an attempt to get others > to cooperate in stopping his hate, without resorting If this is so, then why have you not asked for help in clear and simple language? I believe you will find that the members of this list are not so easily manipulated. Again, I respectfully request that you cease these impolite, manipulative, defensive, and off-topic posts. Glen Goodwin Orlando, FL USA 0/0 From charlesmorris at direcway.com Tue Apr 15 17:18:01 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: ASR33 reader In-Reply-To: <20030415170001.86377.90764.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030415170001.86377.90764.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4q0p9vg7ermhbbdd3n79svmhsro7t1dubi@4ax.com> On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:00:01 -0500, Tony Duell wrote: >Ah. With the PDP8/e and PDP11s, there's a relay wired in series with the >reader trip magnet (the one on top of the distributor unit at the rear >right). It allows the computer to start and stop the reader, and in fact >the read a character at a time. It's partly controlled in hardware, in >that when the PDP derects an incoming character, it turns off the relay >(stopping the reader). It's then turned on a again by software >(presumably after said software ahs read the character). My TTY *does* have a relay on the reader "powerpack" board which can be turned on if an XON (DC3, Ctrl-Q) is sent to the typing unit, and off again upon receipt of an XOFF (DC1, Ctrl-S); it also latches itself on if the reader's manual start lever is flipped, until it is pushed to the stop position, or the tape-out contact opens. Is that the relay to which you are referring? Are you sure the 8/e actually goes to the trouble of turning off/on the reader after EVERY character? At 10 cps that's 100,000 uS between characters (60,000 machine cycles on my 8/L)? Meanwhile I have my 33 apart awaiting new function levers that trigger the above flow-control options (someone had installed Ctrl-B and CR instead of the correct Ctrl-S and -Q). Further reader "tuning" will thus be delayed... -Charles From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Apr 15 17:37:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Newspaper layout/typsetting (was Re: new gifts) Message-ID: <200304152234.h3FMYpDl005796@io.crash.com> > They also seem to bear the name of an aftermarket supplier - > Systems Industries?- and some sort of system name, which I cannot > remember, but suggests typesetting. May be the Atex (?) system, which I understand was very popular and is still hanging on in some corners. I've got some pictures around here somewhere from one datacenter of a major metro New York area newspaper showing racks of what I believe are rebadged pdp-11/x4's (they look recent, so maybe /84, /94, or one of the goosed third party CPUs) dedicated to running Atex terminals in newsrooms. The systems are using some reasonably modern storage system - might even be 3.5" form factor. But I wasn't in a position to inspect any- thing too closely. If I run across the snapshots I'll scan them and put them up somewhere for grins. --Steve. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 15 17:38:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: DEC newbie (was need caddy for RRD-42DA CD-ROM drive) In-Reply-To: from "acme@ao.net" at Apr 15, 2003 06:01:13 PM Message-ID: <200304152236.h3FMaBbT030993@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Just checking since I've seen others slip before ... > > > > The RRD42 takes the standard "flip-top" caddy that > > must have been made in their millions. > > Well, that's a relief. Can you point me to a source for these common caddies? Try places that carry old PC junk. This type of CD-ROM was used primarily in 1-4x CD-ROM's that were seen in PC's (the fastest I've seen is an 8x that I put in my PDP-11/73). Of course you can also find this style CD-ROM in DEC, Sun, and probably other manufacturer's equipment (I think Apple had one drive of this style). Actually your best place to look might be eBay, I'd imagine they're pretty easy to find there. Just be glad you don't have one of the drives that use the 'pincer' caddies! Zane From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Apr 15 17:43:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally Produced by Tim Shoppa) Message-ID: <3E9C8A7D.F060FFAE@compsys.to> The last two times I posted this, another person contacted me either for help or to request the CDs. This will be the last time for about 6 months unless more people reply. In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 that Tim Shoppa originally produced: I am in the middle of finishing a second (very small) batch of CDs and could easily add a few additional copies. I will be making all copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ Since not everyone has both a high speed internet connection and a CD burner, I thought it would be helpful to make them available. If you have both requirements and are using Windows 98 SE / Nero Burning, I can help with the details if you don't know how to burn a CD from an "Image File". I have even been able to produce a label for each CD that is close to the original label from Tim Shoppa, although since they were scanned (THANK YOU FOR THE HELP), they are not perfect. They are available at $ 5 / $ 9 / $ 12 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. In addition, I understand that Memorex Black CD-Rs have a longer shelf life and are available at Business Depot. If anyone wants those instead, add $ 1 for each CD that you are requesting. Thus those amounts are $ 6 / $ 11 / $ 15 Please contact me directly for my snail mail address. I picked up some Memorex Black CD-R blanks and started on the copies for those who have already requested that a Black CD-R be used. Please include your mailing address!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In general, I will regard any funds you send as a gift so that if anyone really can't afford the CDs, please state why that is so. Outside of the US, probably about $ 2 should be sufficient for extra postage. All amounts are in US dollars. Please ask if you are not in the US. No point in converting twice. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 15 17:46:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks In-Reply-To: from "Peter Brown" at Apr 15, 3 09:23:34 pm Message-ID: > With the data clocks off the drive, I'm having a few problems working out > the actual format that HP use to record files on the disk. > > It looks as though the first block on the disk (block 0) contains > information about the volume label, number of blocks available, number of > blocks allocated etc. (and I assume the length of the catalog). > > The next few blocks seem to contain the catalog information itself - file > names, start locations lengths, file types etc. > > Does anyone have access to details of the format that HP use to store files > on cs80 protocol disks/tapes? THis sounds very much like LIF (Logical Interchange Format). It's documented (mostly) in the back of the manual for the HP71 HPIL module (of all places). All blocks are 256 bytes long. Block 0 is the volume label/descriptor block Bytes 0-1 LIF ID (0x80, 0) 2-7 Volume lablel, ASCII, padded with spaces 8-11 Directory start block number, MSB first 12-13 System 3000 compatibility (0x10, 0) 14-15 zeros 16-19 Directory length (in blocks, MSB first) 20-21 Version (normally 0 1) 22-23 zeros 24-27 Tracks per surface 28-31 Number of surfaces 32-35 Records per track 36-41 Date and Time intialised (year, month, day, hour, minute, second in BCD) 42-255 zeros Block 1 is all zeros Each directoy block (the directory normally starts in block 2, BTW) contains 8 directory entries, each 32 bytes long. Each entry describes a file. Files must be contiguous, and the directory entries must appear in the 'right order' -- that's to say they describe the files (and unused space) in the order it appears on the disk. A directory entry contains ; Bytes 0-9 Filename, ASCII padded with spaces 10-11 Filetype (binary) 12-15 File starting block, MSB first 16-19 File length in blocks, MSB first 20-25 Date and Time created (see above for format) 26-27 Volume flag/number (0x80 1) 28-31 File type specific bytes (often the exact file length, record size, protection, etc is put here. File lengths may not be in bytes!) The filetype is a 16 bit number. The important ones to recognise are 0 0 Deleted file (empty space on the disk) 0xFF 0xFF End of directory 0 1 Text file (note, this is a somewhat odd format, it's not a simple stream of ASCII characters). Others will be OS-specific. I know them for the calculators, but that's no help to you. You may want to look at my 'LIF utilites for Linux', available from the HPCC web site. Although they won't do what you want (they're written for the 9114 floppy disks used on the calculators, and the parameters of this disk type are hard-coded in some of the programs), you might get some useful hints from the source code, or you might just want to laugh at my terrible C. -tony From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 15 17:50:01 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi again, here is the link to my website. I posted a few pictures of the Kenbak-1 and the manual. I will update the page in the next few days with a few stories that I found out about the Kenbak computer history as well as other links related to the Kenbak-1. Here is the link: http://www.computermuseum.20m.com/frame.htm just follow the Kenbak-1 exhibit link on the main page or click on the "computers" button and scroll down to Kenbak. Again if anybody has information about the Kenbak computer or owns one or a manual, please contact me. Herbert From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Apr 15 17:55:01 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Newspaper layout/typsetting Message-ID: <200304152252.h3FMqfDl005838@io.crash.com> Sorry, should have mentioned the timeframe: this was a disaster recovery datacenter being setup in early 2002. So clearly this stuff is in current use and probably will be for some time. --S. From jmd5 at earthlink.net Tue Apr 15 17:55:14 2003 From: jmd5 at earthlink.net (jmd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: DEC newbie (was need caddy for RRD-42DA CD-ROM drive) In-Reply-To: <200304152201.h3FM1Due021838@eola.ao.net> References: <200304152201.h3FM1Due021838@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <1050447141.11168.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Glen.. i have 2 of these caddies. there is a store in redondo beach ca that had stacks of them. i don't know if they still do.i can check for you if you need some. they were top loading. i can part with mine if necessary but they do go with 2 plextor 4x cdroms. jeff duncan hi ethan....ltns. been off this list for a while.... good to see you are still here. say hi to franco, jim etc at yin yeu (sp?) > Well, that's a relief. Can you point me to a source for these common caddies? > > I have ZERO experience with DEC equipment but recently acquired a VaxStation > 3100 m76, with the specific goal in mind of gaining familiarity with DEC gear > and VMS. I'll be pestering the list with a lot of newbie questions as things > progress . . . > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 -- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 15 18:00:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: ASR33 reader In-Reply-To: <4q0p9vg7ermhbbdd3n79svmhsro7t1dubi@4ax.com> from "Charles" at Apr 15, 3 05:16:03 pm Message-ID: > >Ah. With the PDP8/e and PDP11s, there's a relay wired in series with the > >reader trip magnet (the one on top of the distributor unit at the rear > >right). It allows the computer to start and stop the reader, and in fact > >the read a character at a time. It's partly controlled in hardware, in > >that when the PDP derects an incoming character, it turns off the relay > >(stopping the reader). It's then turned on a again by software > >(presumably after said software ahs read the character). > > My TTY *does* have a relay on the reader "powerpack" board which > can be turned on if an XON (DC3, Ctrl-Q) is sent to the typing > unit, and off again upon receipt of an XOFF (DC1, Ctrl-S); it also > latches itself on if the reader's manual start lever is flipped, > until it is pushed to the stop position, or the tape-out contact > opens. Is that the relay to which you are referring? No, that's the standard Teletype automatic reader control relay. The relay I am refing to is a DEC modification (Intel had an almost identical mod that was used with the MCS8i (and probably other machines). It's a little PCB with a relay on it that's fitted to the call control unit. The cotnacts are wired in series with the reader trip magnet coil. The relay coil is wired back to the PDP (no connections to the teletype), and is driven by a transsitor circuit there. > > Are you sure the 8/e actually goes to the trouble of turning > off/on the reader after EVERY character? At 10 cps that's 100,000 Yes. It's done partially in hardware. The relay (and hence the trip magnet) is turned off as a character is received by the PDP. The computer then has to set a bit on the serial card (I can remember how to do this on a PDP11, but not on the PDP8) to restart the reader. -tony From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Apr 15 18:13:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030415161345.05b526d0@mail.zipcon.net> Looks cool, however :( please warn about the pop-ups at your host, I got cascading popups because I didn't ahve my pop-up killer loaded when i visited your site :( From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Tue Apr 15 18:39:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <3E6CC174.3084.10DD4E67@localhost> References: <3E6CC174.3084.10DD4E67@localhost> Message-ID: <1050449718.3040.39.camel@azure.subsolar.com> On Mon, 2003-03-10 at 16:46, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone > forever come up on the list. For the most part almost > all old computer collectors are using programs illegally. > a thousand others sitting on a program which they won't > put into public domain due to not giving a shit about the > end user. I usually take the extremely legalistic point of view to highlight to people that the current system of copyright is broken, and only getting more so to protect the interests of a few. Whenever I catch somebody I know doing something that is technically illegal I point out this fact most strenuous and let them know they can get a criminal records, do jail time and receive millions in fines if somebody takes offense at what they are doing. I will then suggest that if they think this is wrong they should contact their representative and suggest things be changed. Most shrug, figure I'm a kook (probably right) and don't do a damn thing ... this is why things won't change. > Why is there not an similar outcry about companies like > Lotus or Borland that put out products that were obsoleted > companies it's tit for tat. Apple and a few others do the > decent thing but they are the exceptions not the rule. Borland has released some of their old dos compilers on their community site, so I would not knock them too much. They sold off the rights to many of their applications so I would not expect them to release them to the public. I'm hoping that the shareware type idea will come back with the rise of open-source software creating new niches, and the big software companies charging for support & updates. You don't want support, the software is free, but if you want somebody to answer questions, you need to pay the author something. Regards, Paul From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 15 19:11:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives Message-ID: <200304160009.RAA04911@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Paul Berger" > >On Mon, 2003-03-10 at 16:46, Lawrence Walker wrote: >> Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone >> forever come up on the list. For the most part almost >> all old computer collectors are using programs illegally. > >> a thousand others sitting on a program which they won't >> put into public domain due to not giving a shit about the >> end user. > >I usually take the extremely legalistic point of view to highlight to >people that the current system of copyright is broken, and only getting >more so to protect the interests of a few. > >Whenever I catch somebody I know doing something that is technically >illegal I point out this fact most strenuous and let them know they can >get a criminal records, do jail time and receive millions in fines if >somebody takes offense at what they are doing. I will then suggest that >if they think this is wrong they should contact their representative and >suggest things be changed. > >Most shrug, figure I'm a kook (probably right) and don't do a damn thing >... this is why things won't change. > >> Why is there not an similar outcry about companies like >> Lotus or Borland that put out products that were obsoleted > >> companies it's tit for tat. Apple and a few others do the >> decent thing but they are the exceptions not the rule. > >Borland has released some of their old dos compilers on their community >site, so I would not knock them too much. They sold off the rights to >many of their applications so I would not expect them to release them to >the public. > >I'm hoping that the shareware type idea will come back with the rise of >open-source software creating new niches, and the big software companies >charging for support & updates. You don't want support, the software is >free, but if you want somebody to answer questions, you need to pay the >author something. Hi The only problem here is something I saw done ( and admitted to ) in shareware. The product was release to shareware with a known bug. In order to get it fixed, simply pay for the support/upgrade. I chose to delete the original and not use either. I had a couple of shareware programs that I released. They were used by many hundreds of people. I only had 4 people send me the $5. I'm not complaining. Actually I'm happy that so many found them useful. I'll have to admit that most were college students so they have a good excuse. I've also used several shareware programs without sending any money in so I can't complain about others. There were a couple that I did send money in for and used quite a bit. My only complaint is with abandonware. When the code is no longer relevant, why hang onto it as though it were of some value. I can see that one could make a point that there might be something in the source that was of value but the application is different. Dwight > >Regards, >Paul From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 15 19:33:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 pictures Message-ID: <200304160030.RAA04926@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Geoff Reed > >Looks cool, however :( please warn about the pop-ups at your host, I got >cascading popups because I didn't ahve my pop-up killer loaded when i >visited your site :( Hi I never got the pictures to come across?? I only got one popup. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 15 19:38:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030415182200.18ff507c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Peter, Are you dealing with SS80 or CS80? The title says SS-80 but the text says CS-80. Which model 9133 are you using? Do you know what kind of system it was previously used on? Bob Shannon, Steve Robertson and a couple of others have done a LOT of work figuring out the CS-80 protocall so that they can write drivers for use with the HP 1000. Apparently there's a lot more to it than what's shown in the instruction manual. FYI at one time HP made a kit that had a 8 bit ISA HP-IB card along with software and docs to let you use one of the HP drives on a PC. I used to have one but don't remember the exact name or model. I don't know if it was capable of reading HP data from a drive or not but it's a possibility. >With the data clocks off the drive, I'm having a few problems working out >the actual format that HP use to record files on the disk. If the drive came from a 9000 200 computer, it could be LIF or HFS. HP used both. To make matter worse there are a LOT of different LIF formats. I used to have a document from HP that described some of the different LIF formats that were used just on their instruments and there were about two dozen different formats as I recall. And that did not include the formats used on the various computers! Joe At 09:23 PM 4/15/03 +0000, you wrote: >Hi folks, > >I have an HP 9133 HDD that I'm going to have to re-format (for an HP based >measuring system). > >The drive already has quite a lot of software on it that it seems a shame to >destroy. > >I've stuck a bus analyser on the drive and had a quick look at the data >passing back and forth between a controller and it. I think that I can >control the drive OK (using cs80 protocol) from a PC with HPIB controller >card - i.e. I can identify the drive, check block sizes and pull data off or >write data to the drive. > >It strikes me that an application that enables the information on a cs/80 >drive to be pulled onto a PC, backed-up on another format (e.g. CD ROM) and >then written back to the cs80 drive would be useful - does such an >application already exist? > >With the data clocks off the drive, I'm having a few problems working out >the actual format that HP use to record files on the disk. > >It looks as though the first block on the disk (block 0) contains >information about the volume label, number of blocks available, number of >blocks allocated etc. (and I assume the length of the catalog). > >The next few blocks seem to contain the catalog information itself - file >names, start locations lengths, file types etc. > >Does anyone have access to details of the format that HP use to store files >on cs80 protocol disks/tapes? > >(I already have a document 'cs/80 instruction set' dated March 1983 that has >proved invaluable in understanding the messages between the controller and >disk drive.) > >Any help much appreciated. > >Cheers > >Peter Brown > >_________________________________________________________________ >Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger >http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 15 19:42:00 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, the pop-ups on my webpage are gone. I apologize for any inconvenience they may have caused. Unfortunately running a real computer museum is not always cheap and has to be done on a tight budget. Stan, donations are always welcome. If somebody wants to sponsor a pop up free webpage for a year it is $23.88 Thanks Herbert Stan Sieler wrote: Caution...besides popping up more annoying popups than I've seen for weeks (I temporarily disabled my pop-up blocker), at least one of the popups offered to install the spyware GAIN from Gator! -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Apr 15 19:58:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <1050449718.3040.39.camel@azure.subsolar.com> References: <3E6CC174.3084.10DD4E67@localhost> <3E6CC174.3084.10DD4E67@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030415204401.05ae5ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > if somebody takes offense at what they are doing. > and let them know they can get a criminal records, do jail time > and receive millions in fines if somebody takes offense at what > they are doing. http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/reporting/ http://www.bsa.org/ http://www.spa.org/ http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/ip.html http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/ob/OBMain.htm Also note, there was recently a request for information from a country which the US has economic sanctions against. http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/sanctions/t11iran.pdf Perkin-Elmer equipment might have "dual use" applications. At 06:35 PM 4/15/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 2003-03-10 at 16:46, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone > > forever come up on the list. For the most part almost > > all old computer collectors are using programs illegally. > > > a thousand others sitting on a program which they won't > > put into public domain due to not giving a shit about the > > end user. > >I usually take the extremely legalistic point of view to highlight to >people that the current system of copyright is broken, and only getting >more so to protect the interests of a few. > >Whenever I catch somebody I know doing something that is technically >illegal I point out this fact most strenuous and let them know they can >get a criminal records, do jail time and receive millions in fines if >somebody takes offense at what they are doing. I will then suggest that >if they think this is wrong they should contact their representative and >suggest things be changed. > >Most shrug, figure I'm a kook (probably right) and don't do a damn thing >... this is why things won't change. > > > Why is there not an similar outcry about companies like > > Lotus or Borland that put out products that were obsoleted > > > companies it's tit for tat. Apple and a few others do the > > decent thing but they are the exceptions not the rule. > >Borland has released some of their old dos compilers on their community >site, so I would not knock them too much. They sold off the rights to >many of their applications so I would not expect them to release them to >the public. > >I'm hoping that the shareware type idea will come back with the rise of >open-source software creating new niches, and the big software companies >charging for support & updates. You don't want support, the software is >free, but if you want somebody to answer questions, you need to pay the >author something. > >Regards, >Paul From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Apr 15 20:14:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Some Cool Sun stuff Today Message-ID: <041401c303b5$38a22460$b70add40@oemcomputer> At a local Goodwill I picked up the following: A Sun external tape drive PN 595-1711-01 model 411. A Sun SPARCserver 20 model 544 with 2-20gig HD's, 256 MB memory and loaded with software but I have no password to login with. A Sun SPARCstation 10 model 144 can't get it to boot up. A Sun type 6 keyboard. A Burroughs desk top computer power supply external black brick. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 15 20:21:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030415205112.11e77834@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Herbert, Why don't you talk to Jay West? He's offered to give free, unlimited web space to anyone that wants to post classic computer related web pages. Joe At 09:34 PM 4/15/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > >the pop-ups on my webpage are gone. I apologize for any inconvenience they >may have caused. Unfortunately running a real computer museum is not always >cheap and has to be done on a tight budget. > >Stan, donations are always welcome. If somebody wants to sponsor a pop up >free webpage for a year it is $23.88 > >Thanks >Herbert > > >Stan Sieler wrote: >Caution...besides popping up more annoying popups than I've >seen for weeks (I temporarily disabled my pop-up blocker), >at least one of the popups offered to install the spyware GAIN >from Gator! > >-- >Stan Sieler >sieler@allegro.com >www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Tue Apr 15 20:22:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <200304160009.RAA04911@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200304160009.RAA04911@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1050455902.3372.24.camel@azure.subsolar.com> On Tue, 2003-04-15 at 19:09, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > The only problem here is something I saw done ( and > admitted to ) in shareware. The product was release to > shareware with a known bug. In order to get it fixed, > simply pay for the support/upgrade. I chose to delete > the original and not use either. Hopefully such products would not last long in the market. I wonder sometimes if such a strategy is used by certain other large software vendors that I won't mention. > I had a couple of shareware programs that I released. > They were used by many hundreds of people. I only had > 4 people send me the $5. I'm not complaining. Actually > I'm happy that so many found them useful. I'll have to > admit that most were college students so they have a good > excuse. Myself I've paid for software that I find useful even if I was not required by the license. If I use a utility that has a donate link on the site I will throw a couple spare bucks to. I know I am unusual, most people I know abuse shareware licenses far beyond anything reasonable, I find this sad since most can afford to pay. There are some shareware utilities (DIRMAN is an example of one) that I would like to pay for, but I can't find the author. > My only complaint is with abandonware. When the code is > no longer relevant, why hang onto it as though it were > of some value. I can see that one could make a point that > there might be something in the source that was of value > but the application is different. Things where the copyright is essentially abandoned like much software that is more than 10 years old, old book that are not published, and most old movies moldering in vaults are a big problem. Most you can't determine the current holder of the copyright to request permission, and the current holder may not even know what they have. This is why it should never have gotten away from the system that existed pre 1973 where the holder had to renew copyright after 28 years for 28 years or else it went into the public domain. Pulling numbers out of the air I would say 20 years with 10 year increments till 70-90 years would be fine. Regards, Paul From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 20:28:00 2003 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks References: <3.0.6.16.20030415182200.18ff507c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E9CB11D.6050704@yahoo.com> Joe wrote: >Peter, > > ...snip...snip...snip... > FYI at one time HP made a kit that had a 8 bit ISA HP-IB card along with software and docs to let you use one of the HP drives on a PC. I used to have one but don't remember the exact name or model. I don't know if it was capable of reading HP data from a drive or not but it's a possibility. > > HP 88500A is the one I have. Allows you to use both HPIB tape drives and disk drives on your PC.... The package included an interface card HP88500A, one-meter HPIB cable (8120-4554), a manual set: 88500-90011, 88500-90005, and 88500-90010, and a software disk (5.25") 88500-10100... This package formatted the drives for use with DOS, so that the partitions on the drives were DOS partitions. I didn't see anything in the manual about accessing LIF (or any other non-DOS file system) with this product... Bill McDermith From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 15 20:35:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:02 2005 Subject: Some Cool Sun stuff Today In-Reply-To: from "Keys" at Apr 15, 2003 08:12:15 PM Message-ID: <200304160132.h3G1WuEL006812@shell1.aracnet.com> > A Sun SPARCserver 20 model 544 with 2-20gig HD's, 256 MB memory and loaded > with software but I have no password to login with. Isn't the model that has 4 50Mhz CPU's? If so that *IS* a *VERY COOL* find! You can probably boot it in single user mode and clear the password. Zane From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 15 20:39:00 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 pictures In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030415205112.11e77834@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Hi Joe! Wow, that would be great! Do you have his email address? Thanks Herbert on 4/15/03 8:51 PM, Joe at rigdonj@cfl.rr.com wrote: > Herbert, > > Why don't you talk to Jay West? He's offered to give free, unlimited web space > to anyone that wants to post classic computer related web pages. > > Joe > > At 09:34 PM 4/15/03 -0400, you wrote: >> Hi, >> >> the pop-ups on my webpage are gone. I apologize for any inconvenience they >> may have caused. Unfortunately running a real computer museum is not always >> cheap and has to be done on a tight budget. >> >> Stan, donations are always welcome. If somebody wants to sponsor a pop up >> free webpage for a year it is $23.88 >> >> Thanks >> Herbert >> >> >> Stan Sieler wrote: >> Caution...besides popping up more annoying popups than I've >> seen for weeks (I temporarily disabled my pop-up blocker), >> at least one of the popups offered to install the spyware GAIN >> from Gator! >> >> -- >> Stan Sieler >> sieler@allegro.com >> www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 15 20:48:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 pictures In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030415205112.11e77834@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030415214626.0f8fbee6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:31 PM 4/15/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Joe! >Wow, that would be great! Do you have his email address? Yes, it's "Jay West" . But he hosts this list so it's not hard to find. Joe > >Thanks >Herbert > >on 4/15/03 8:51 PM, Joe at rigdonj@cfl.rr.com wrote: > >> Herbert, >> >> Why don't you talk to Jay West? He's offered to give free, unlimited web space >> to anyone that wants to post classic computer related web pages. >> >> Joe >> >> At 09:34 PM 4/15/03 -0400, you wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> the pop-ups on my webpage are gone. I apologize for any inconvenience they >>> may have caused. Unfortunately running a real computer museum is not always >>> cheap and has to be done on a tight budget. >>> >>> Stan, donations are always welcome. If somebody wants to sponsor a pop up >>> free webpage for a year it is $23.88 >>> >>> Thanks >>> Herbert >>> >>> >>> Stan Sieler wrote: >>> Caution...besides popping up more annoying popups than I've >>> seen for weeks (I temporarily disabled my pop-up blocker), >>> at least one of the popups offered to install the spyware GAIN >>> from Gator! >>> >>> -- >>> Stan Sieler >>> sieler@allegro.com >>> www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From dancohoe at oxford.net Tue Apr 15 20:59:00 2003 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Xerox 16/8 Professional Computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001a01c303bb$5ea4c450$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> Herbert, I've got a set. Contact me off-list and we can figure how to get you what you need. I'm in Ontario. regards, Dan Cohoe > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of The Design Fort DTP > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 5:45 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Xerox 16/8 Professional Computer > > > Does anybody know where I could find manuals for the Xerox > 16/8 Professional > Computer? > > Thanks > Herbert From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Apr 15 21:26:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Modem In-Reply-To: <20B654AE-6F7E-11D7-8308-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> References: <20B654AE-6F7E-11D7-8308-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote: > Hi All > > Was just browsing ebay and this might be of interest to someone on the > list... (not my auction, don't know the seller etc) > > TRS-80 Modem 1 (Radio Shack) currently at $5 with about 5 hours left to > go. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3412343006&category=3692 Is anyone familiar with the Lynx modem that was available for the TRS80 Model 1 (also worked with models 3 and 4 with an adapter board)? I have always wondered about the history of the company, but didn't find much info the last time I searched. -Toth From tsl at tslinc.com Tue Apr 15 21:40:01 2003 From: tsl at tslinc.com (Andy Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: TIL-308 Message-ID: <001301c302b5$35e96450$7501a8c0@ANDY> Dear Mr. Arnold: I found your name through a Google search for TIL-308 numeric displays. You were in some kind of web discussion concerning replacing the TIL-307/307 displays with TIL-308 displays. You mentioned that you had a small quantity of TIL-308s. We are looking for a few of these displays. Are they still available and, if so, what is the price? Thanks, Andy Corbin Technical Services Laboratory Inc. 95 Ready Avenue Ft. Walton Beach, FL 32548 USA Phone (850) 243-3722 FAX (850) 244-6653 E-mail address: tsl@tslinc.com From jwest at kwcorp.com Tue Apr 15 21:40:19 2003 From: jwest at kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: List member harassment Message-ID: <008d01c302bf$6c687520$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Take it to private email please, both of you. On a more on-topic note, is anyone well versed in troubleshooting/repair of a Data I/O 29A w/Unipak 2? Mine is sick and I'm not sure where to start :\ Jay West From martial.perrin at free.fr Tue Apr 15 21:40:31 2003 From: martial.perrin at free.fr (Martial PERRIN) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: iUP201 Message-ID: <000801c302c3$60e31940$167afea9@santiago> Hi, I've got a IUP201a programmer with a Fast27K module which works fine. I'm seeking docs on them. I can upload hex files from a PC via serial port but I know that it is possible to download from programmer to PC via serial port. Widely it is possible to command programmer from host but I need command language. Martial From sieler at allegro.com Tue Apr 15 21:41:11 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E9A944B.17908.18903395@localhost> Re: > >Does anyone know where 132 column (14x11) white (blank) fanfold > >paper is still available? Bowater used to make it years ago, but > >has since sold that business off... > > We were buying it from Staples and Office Depot up until recently. As of > when we stopped buying it, they were still carrying it (we just upgraded > our system and moved to printing to a laser printer... MUCH cheaper). Some people have the best of both worlds ... a small number of laser printers can use fanfold paper. I helped buy/install one such a few years back, and the client's been happy with it (it emulates a LaserJet, but is faster and is fanfold). -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From fdebros at verizon.net Tue Apr 15 21:43:02 2003 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: dec 5000 questions In-Reply-To: <20030414081916.GG1359@oblina> Message-ID: <000001c302f5$aa134ae0$6401a8c0@fred> > But the cable that connects mouse and kbd via a db15 connector to my > decstation also terminates with a single bnc connector. > Is this another grayscale output (or b/w only) of the decstation? No. That cable comes from a VAXstation. The "right" DECstation cable has no BNC connector. The only way to get graphics on that machine is via a Turbochannel card. Ur right. I tried pulling the framebuffer card out ....no go! Do kbd and mouse work with this cable? Should! And where oh where do I get the 3pin to 3bnc cable from? Ebay? What's it called? I thought about getting some radioshack powersupply plugs that fit into the 3pin socket and make 3 coaxcables with them. Any other way to juryrig the 3pin connector of the vlc4000 and this turbochannel card -d and -f type? AND: Does netbsd 1.6/pmax or its X really work with these framebuffers and allow a GUI? In which case I'll dump Ultrix of course. -- tsch??, fred From DBRYAN at genicom.com Tue Apr 15 21:43:16 2003 From: DBRYAN at genicom.com (Bryan, Donald x1394) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Old UNIVACS Message-ID: Just stumbled onto a message posted on Nov 7, 2002, in which you mentioned having some UYK-20 machines. Should you have any left, or locate any more of the -20's or -44's, please add me to the list. Being a true diehard collecter, I might also consider coming and picking up something bigger: UYK-7, Univac 1218, CP-642, etc. Just depends on the price and the timing. Thanks, Don Bryan dbryan@genicom.com (540) 949-1394 From h.ahonen at shaw.ca Tue Apr 15 21:43:28 2003 From: h.ahonen at shaw.ca (h.ahonen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Commodore 16 Power Supply Message-ID: <000801c3036a$58fc1cc0$9cc59144@ahoneni2dtn3ze> Hi, Can someone please help me. I have a Commodore 16 computer without Power Supply. I understan it requires 9VDC source at 1A. What is the polarity of the connector? Is plus (+) on the center pin or on the sleeve? Thanks Hank Ahonen email: hank.ahonen@shaw.ca From h.ahonen at shaw.ca Tue Apr 15 21:43:40 2003 From: h.ahonen at shaw.ca (h.ahonen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Commodore 16 Power Supply Message-ID: <000c01c3036a$e03210a0$9cc59144@ahoneni2dtn3ze> Subject: Re: Commodore 16 Power Supply Sorry, email address should read: h.ahonen@shaw.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: h.ahonen To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:16 AM Subject: Commodore 16 Power Supply Hi, Can someone please help me. I have a Commodore 16 computer without Power Supply. I understan it requires 9VDC source at 1A. What is the polarity of the connector? Is plus (+) on the center pin or on the sleeve? Thanks Hank Ahonen email: h.ahonen@shaw.ca From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Tue Apr 15 21:43:52 2003 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Interfacing an HP 9134 HDD to my HP 85 Message-ID: <200304151851.h3FIpgYn024351@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Well I have my 9134A connected to an HP-87 and when the system boots it recognizes the hard disk automatically, so that you can just type a CAT commend and see the directory listing. One question, I assume that you have set the two address switches on the back to *different* addresses (e.g. HP-IB addr 0 for the hard disk and addr 1 for the floppy). So if you try to do a CAT on the floppy address, do you still get a timeout? **vp From sieler at allegro.com Tue Apr 15 21:44:05 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E9C3A83.26886.5FA81E0@localhost> Re: > Here is the link: > http://www.computermuseum.20m.com/frame.htm Caution...besides popping up more annoying popups than I've seen for weeks (I temporarily disabled my pop-up blocker), at least one of the popups offered to install the spyware GAIN from Gator! -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Tue Apr 15 21:44:18 2003 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Some Cool Sun stuff Today In-Reply-To: <041401c303b5$38a22460$b70add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030415220419.00a94e78@mail.n.ml.org> hey Keys, if memory serves me correctly, on some "hacking" site I passed by a year ago, I recall seeing something of mention on SPARCserver backdoors/admin overrides. I'll look to see if I can find the site again, it may help you get back in without having to beat the machine to hell out of frustration, grin. -John Boffemmyer IV At 09:12 PM 4/15/2003, you wrote: >At a local Goodwill I picked up the following: >A Sun external tape drive PN 595-1711-01 model 411. > >A Sun SPARCserver 20 model 544 with 2-20gig HD's, 256 MB memory and loaded >with software but I have no password to login with. > >A Sun SPARCstation 10 model 144 can't get it to boot up. > >A Sun type 6 keyboard. > >A Burroughs desk top computer power supply external black brick. ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From Technoid at 30below.com Tue Apr 15 21:51:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Classic Spring Cleaning photos In-Reply-To: <5A9A7580-6D38-11D7-8E42-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <000001c303c3$09426c80$6300a8c0@benchbox> Well, it is that time again I suppose. While going through stuff, I'm taking pictures: http://technoid.dyndns.org So far I have the Sparc, the AtariSt, and the Data General MV4000/dc featured. I think the MV4000 has the prettiest memory board of all time short of those nifty ruby-rod cores I once saw.... BTW, this website is running on an Atari Mega ST4 running MiNT. Regards and best wishes all, Jeff From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Apr 15 22:06:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c303c4$d8b46440$947ba8c0@piii933> That is one great machine! The site is very well done also! There must be a great story to the acquisition, right? How did you run across such a rare computer? Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of The Design Fort DTP Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:40 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Kenbak-1 pictures Hi again, here is the link to my website. I posted a few pictures of the Kenbak-1 and the manual. I will update the page in the next few days with a few stories that I found out about the Kenbak computer history as well as other links related to the Kenbak-1. Here is the link: http://www.computermuseum.20m.com/frame.htm just follow the Kenbak-1 exhibit link on the main page or click on the "computers" button and scroll down to Kenbak. Again if anybody has information about the Kenbak computer or owns one or a manual, please contact me. Herbert From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Apr 15 22:11:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Help nomenclature??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 11:54 PM, Tillman, Edward wrote: > I rather thought they used ASCII text, sometimes strained through ANSI > for > color, but ASCII was the primary character set/map. > Yes, but the arrangement of the ascii text into menus. a content area, a statusline at the bottom function key labels etc. Had a name Common User Interface / System Architecture something like that anyway. From jim at jkearney.com Tue Apr 15 22:18:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Data I/O References: <008d01c302bf$6c687520$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000f01c303c6$736d3290$1301090a@xpace.net> > On a more on-topic note, is anyone well versed in troubleshooting/repair of > a Data I/O 29A w/Unipak 2? Mine is sick and I'm not sure where to start :\ I have PDF versions of the manuals for both of those (picked em up somewhere on the web). Complete schematics and troubleshooting sections! I'll put them on my web server: http://www.jkearney.com/dataio.zip (16.3MB) From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Apr 15 22:19:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: dec 5000 questions In-Reply-To: <000001c302f5$aa134ae0$6401a8c0@fred> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Fred deBros wrote: > I tried pulling the framebuffer card out ....no go! > Do kbd and mouse work with this cable? Should! No, there's a bunch of DEC 'keyboard/mouse' cables that have a 15pin connector, each with a different pinout. Don't ask me why. > And where oh where do I get the 3pin to 3bnc cable from? Ebay? What's it > called? The '3pin' connector is probably a 3W3. I'd try either eBay, finding someone on the list with a spare, or your favorite surplus equipment place. > I thought about getting some radioshack powersupply plugs that fit into > the 3pin socket and make 3 coaxcables with them. Any other way to > juryrig the 3pin connector of the vlc4000 and this turbochannel card -d > and -f type? You could just solder new connector(s) onto the framebuffer... if you don't mind modifying it. > AND: Does netbsd 1.6/pmax or its X really work with these framebuffers > and allow a GUI? In which case I'll dump Ultrix of course. I'm fairly sure that it doesn't, but you could probably find out by looking on their website - they probably have a supported hardware list for the port. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Apr 15 22:31:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Backdoor- WasRe: Some Cool Sun stuff Today References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030415220419.00a94e78@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: <04f101c303c8$50efef30$b70add40@oemcomputer> Great!!! Hope you can find it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Boffemmyer IV" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Some Cool Sun stuff Today > hey Keys, if memory serves me correctly, on some "hacking" site I passed by > a year ago, I recall seeing something of mention on SPARCserver > backdoors/admin overrides. I'll look to see if I can find the site again, > it may help you get back in without having to beat the machine to hell out > of frustration, grin. > -John Boffemmyer IV > At 09:12 PM 4/15/2003, you wrote: > ---------------------------------------- > Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst > and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies > http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html > --------------------------------------- From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Apr 15 22:40:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: 132 column (14x11) fanfold paper References: <3E9A944B.17908.18903395@localhost> Message-ID: <3E9CD031.8090103@eoni.com> Stan Sieler wrote: >Re: > > >>>Does anyone know where 132 column (14x11) white (blank) fanfold >>>paper is still available? Bowater used to make it years ago, but >>>has since sold that business off... >>> >>> >>We were buying it from Staples and Office Depot up until recently. As of >>when we stopped buying it, they were still carrying it (we just upgraded >>our system and moved to printing to a laser printer... MUCH cheaper). >> >> > >Some people have the best of both worlds ... a small number >of laser printers can use fanfold paper. I helped buy/install >one such a few years back, and the client's been happy with it >(it emulates a LaserJet, but is faster and is fanfold). > > > Just checked... Staples lists green and blue bar on-line. Office Depot lists it at:: Whew... I was beginning to think that it had gone the way of nine-track magtapes.... Jim From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Apr 15 22:47:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Old UNIVACS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Just stumbled onto a message posted on Nov 7, 2002, in which you mentioned > having some UYK-20 machines. I might be getting another AN/UYK-19, but it is a Rolm, not a Univac... > Should you have any left, or locate any more of the -20's or -44's, please > add me to the list. Being a true diehard collecter, I > might also consider coming and picking up something bigger: UYK-7, Univac > 1218, CP-642, etc. Just depends on the price and the timing. Wow, a collector of Univacs? They are as rare as the machines themselves. What is the CP-642/ part of? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Apr 15 22:48:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: new gifts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > When we get moved, you'll have to come see the new warehouse. Yes, when I have time. I also still have that Altos system for you. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Apr 15 22:53:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: MC6870A Message-ID: A while back I offered an old Motorola 6871A clock chip for the 6800 - it went fast. Now I dug up an MC6870A - apparently the same thing, but slower (614.4 KHz). Anyone need it for pocket change and shipping? $3.00 cash gets it to your door. Act quickly, as in ten days I am going on vacation! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Apr 15 22:58:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Data I/O 29A In-Reply-To: "Jay West"'s message of "Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:52:47 -0500" References: <008d01c302bf$6c687520$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200304160345.h3G3j12m052851@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Jay West" wrote: > On a more on-topic note, is anyone well versed in troubleshooting/repair of > a Data I/O 29A w/Unipak 2? Mine is sick and I'm not sure where to start :\ Take a look at -- there are links there to the documentation for the 29A and Unipak 2. Mine seems to think it is OK (passes self test), but it does weird things sometimes, especially when I switch from reading one device type to another. Looks like when I do that, I should cycle power and put it back in remote mode, else the next read will either fail with an error or fail silently by only reading part of the device. So, trust but verify. -Frank McConnell From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Apr 15 23:22:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Commodore 16 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <000c01c3036a$e03210a0$9cc59144@ahoneni2dtn3ze> References: <000c01c3036a$e03210a0$9cc59144@ahoneni2dtn3ze> Message-ID: <20030416041834.432.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> h.ahonen writes: > Subject: Re: Commodore 16 Power Supply > Hi, > Can someone please help me. > I have a Commodore 16 computer without Power Supply. > I understan it requires 9VDC source at 1A. > What is the polarity of the connector? Is plus (+) on the center pin or on the sleeve? > Thanks > Hank Ahonen > email: h.ahonen@shaw.ca ISTR it was center negative, barrel positive. Open up the unit and check the connections off the jack. Negative should go to the large PC trace on the board. Also double check electrolytic caps polarity too. I think there should be a fixed 5V regulator inside like the old VIC-20's. I happen to have one in the basement here, somewhere . . . buried. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 23:34:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Unhappy Amiga 3000 (was Re: New Finds for teh Museum) In-Reply-To: <20030415204425.26016.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <20030416043210.66845.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: > Ethan Dicks writes: > > I don't recall if that is one of the models or not, but some C= PSUs > > provide 60Hz "tick" to the CIAs (some, like the A500, do not). > The 60Hz 'tick' was on the old CBM 8 bit machines. They had a seperate > 10vAC input that was tapped for that, as well as provide 12 volts for the > analog circuitry. Not only the 8-bit machines. The A1000 and A2000 provided 'tick' to their boards. The A2000 could be jumpered to not require it (I have done so for my A2000 in a Bomac (sp?) tower case that I've fitted a PeeCee PSU in. The A4000 does not provide tick. I didn't remember about the A3000. > The A500 PS only provided DC voltages. That much is certainly true. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Tue Apr 15 23:52:01 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Apple II Corvus drives? In-Reply-To: from "Tillman, Edward" at Apr 15, 2003 01:54:54 AM Message-ID: <200304160450.h3G4o54e016641@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Anyone have any extra old Corvus hard drives? I'm looking for on for my Apple II display. Thanks! Marty From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Apr 16 00:23:00 2003 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Mac Classic References: Message-ID: <049c01c303d7$fe2b5310$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 10:27 PM Subject: Re: Mac Classic > >Is there a keyboard shortcut that will turn the $%^& thing off?? > > Sorry, I said Command-Option-O, but what you may in fact want is > Command-Option-X. > > Command-Option-O toggles CloseView on and off, Well, I did that first, and it restored the desktop to normal, so I was then able to use the mouse to disable Closeview. > In either case, to permanantly disable it, you still should remove the > CloseView control panel from the Control Panels folder and reboot. Did that too. Thanks for your help. I was sure there had to be a way, but I couldn't seem to find it. Cheers Geoff in Oz From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Apr 16 00:28:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Classic Spring Cleaning photos In-Reply-To: <000001c303c3$09426c80$6300a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: On Tuesday, April 15, 2003, at 07:51 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > Well, it is that time again I suppose. While going through stuff, I'm > taking pictures: > > http://technoid.dyndns.org > > So far I have the Sparc, the AtariSt, and the Data General MV4000/dc is this the "soul of a new machine" machine? > featured. I think the MV4000 has the prettiest memory board of all time > short of those nifty ruby-rod cores I once saw.... > > BTW, this website is running on an Atari Mega ST4 running MiNT. > > Regards and best wishes all, > > Jeff From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 16 00:48:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Backdoor- WasRe: Some Cool Sun stuff Today In-Reply-To: <04f101c303c8$50efef30$b70add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Tuesday, April 15, 2003, at 10:28 PM, Keys wrote: > Great!!! Hope you can find it. Best way is to boot single-user from the install CD, mount the root filesystem, and edit relevant password files. Breaking in without the CD is a serious PITA. Doc From kurtk7 at visi.com Wed Apr 16 01:15:01 2003 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (Kurtk7) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes Message-ID: <002201c303df$0271ab20$0200000a@p166mmx> I know this is a strange request for help, but I have done a lot of searching for sources of odd sized floppy disks, and haven't had much luck. The 8" disks are not so much a problem, but from what I can tell, there were 2.0, 2.5, 2.8, 3.0, 3.25, and 4.0 inch formats and finding even one example has become a challenge for me. Since 3" disks were popular with the Sinclair systems, these can be had off Ebay, but what of the rest? Its a personal quest to one one copy of every type of removable media and if anyone has any ideas, sources, information, it would be most appreciated. I hope to post the collection to a website as I don't think it has been done. Thanks for any input Kurt (Still seeking a copy of the manual for the Jupiter Ace 4000, but I am hopeful as there is one possible source if I am lucky) From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Apr 16 01:41:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes In-Reply-To: <002201c303df$0271ab20$0200000a@p166mmx> References: <002201c303df$0271ab20$0200000a@p166mmx> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Kurtk7 wrote: > I know this is a strange request for help, but I have done a lot of > searching for sources of odd sized floppy disks, and haven't had much > luck. The 8" disks are not so much a problem, but from what I can tell, > there were 2.0, 2.5, 2.8, 3.0, 3.25, and 4.0 inch formats and finding > even one example has become a challenge for me. Since 3" disks were > popular with the Sinclair systems, these can be had off Ebay, but what > of the rest? Its a personal quest to one one copy of every type of > removable media and if anyone has any ideas, sources, information, it > would be most appreciated. I hope to post the collection to a website > as I don't think it has been done. I have a Panasonic Video Floppy player that uses a 2" or 2.5" disk to hold still images. I never have done anything with it, since I didn't know where to get the disks. The remote for the unit is also missing, which I was told limits the functionality of it quite a bit. -Toth From drido at optushome.com.au Wed Apr 16 02:58:01 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Commodore 16 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <000801c3036a$58fc1cc0$9cc59144@ahoneni2dtn3ze> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030416175632.01128624@mail.optushome.com.au> At 10:16 AM 4/15/03 -0600, you wrote: >Hi, >Can someone please help me. >I have a Commodore 16 computer without Power Supply. >I understan it requires 9VDC source at 1A. >What is the polarity of the connector? Is plus (+) on the center pin or on the sleeve? >Thanks >Hank Ahonen >email: hank.ahonen@shaw.ca Center pin negative. A Sega master system or megadrive/genesis 1 power supply will work. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Apr 16 04:02:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: dec 5000 questions In-Reply-To: <000001c302f5$aa134ae0$6401a8c0@fred>; from fdebros@verizon.net on Tue, Apr 15, 2003 at 04:21:03 CEST References: <20030414081916.GG1359@oblina> <000001c302f5$aa134ae0$6401a8c0@fred> Message-ID: <20030416102754.A172246@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.04.15 04:21 Fred deBros wrote: > Do kbd and mouse work with this cable? Should! Possibly not. There are two different 15 pin SubD to keyboard / mouse cables. AFAIK the DECstations use the later pinout that was also used by the DEC 3000 Alphas. > And where oh where do I get the 3pin to 3bnc cable from? Ebay? EBay or a list member that has more cables then he needs. (I need all my 3W3 cables. ;-) ) > What's it called? 3W3. Sometimes you can get this connectors from an electronic parts dealer. > AND: Does netbsd 1.6/pmax or its X really work with these > framebuffers and allow a GUI? Depends on the frame buffer. Look at the Netbsd/PMAX web site, there is a list of supported hardware. But don't give up if your framebuffer is listed as unsupported. There may be some new drivers in -current. Ask at the NetBSD port-pmax list if you can't find an answer youself. I had a full blown X11 setup running on my DECstation 5000/240 with a CX and later with a HX frame buffer. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From aeg at paradise.net.nz Wed Apr 16 04:50:00 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030414221125.02da1fb0@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <1FB3E5B3-6FC8-11D7-AFD3-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> On Tuesday, Apr 15, 2003, at 09:26 Pacific/Auckland, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > OK, I had a rummage around and found a box of discs at the bottom of a > filing cabinet! Wyse setup discs, and a DOS tools disc, along with > other miscellaneous stuff.. All on 5.25". I've dragged them home, > along with a suitable drive, and as soon as I can fit it into a PC > I'll read the discs and post the relevant files up somewhere. > Thanks! > they were pretty solid machines ... weighed a ton, too... You bet, feels like they're lead lined Thanks again Alan From aeg at paradise.net.nz Wed Apr 16 04:50:27 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: HH drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, Apr 15, 2003, at 19:05 Pacific/Auckland, Tillman, Edward wrote: > Hmm... > > If they're FAT16 (2.1Gb max recognition), maybe you can get hold of an > old > copy of Partition Magic, and see if you can read them with it. It's a possibility, another list member is trying to dig out an old Wyse set-up disk, this may also do the trick. > > Its doubtful that the drives are physically harmed, but the 0 Sector > (boot > and/or reference sector) will be different with each version of DOS > you try. > If you can boot from floppy, you may want to reformat the disks (DOS > 2.11, > or 3.20) and start anew. Do you know what they likely contain? Are > they > worth the time/effort to recover as-is? They have a version of DRDOS and whilst this is hardly irreplacable I don't currently have a copy. I'd also like to gain a little more experience with this type of drive. I've tried DOS 2.11, 3.21 and 3.30 (and even 4.1, 5.0 and 6.22). With all versions one of the disks is not recognised at all (this could be another fault all together). At the end of the day I'm more curious than desperate. Thank you all who replied to this post for all of the hints and tips Alan From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Apr 16 04:52:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: not old, but cute Atari TV In-Reply-To: <029201c302f2$0130ea70$6d0bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030416024052.029fe3b0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Gamestop.com a chain of new/used video game cartridge stores has a cute item, looks pretty much exactly like a Atari joystick, but internally its a complete console that when hooked to a tv plays about 10 of the classic Atari arcade games. Look for Atari TV and its about $20. From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Apr 16 04:53:00 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030414221125.02da1fb0@pop.freeserve.net> References: <4D248548-6E02-11D7-A9E4-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> <5.1.1.6.0.20030413104107.0307ae18@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030416104416.02f049e8@pop.freeserve.net> At 22:26 14/04/2003 +0100, Rob O'Donnell wrote: >OK, I had a rummage around and found a box of discs at the bottom of a >filing cabinet! Wyse setup discs, and a DOS tools disc, along with other >miscellaneous stuff.. All on 5.25". I've dragged them home, along with a >suitable drive, and as soon as I can fit it into a PC I'll read the discs >and post the relevant files up somewhere. Discs are up at http://www.irrelevant.com/cc/ Wyse Setup, Kaypro Setup, Some driver discs for each. DOS 3.30. Also an Apricot boot disc. See the .txt file on each for a directory. They are straight dd images, if you are using dos/windoze, you'll need to use rawrite.exe or fdimage.exe (google for them) to copy these back to a floppy. Regards Rob. From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Apr 16 05:04:01 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030416104416.02f049e8@pop.freeserve.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030414221125.02da1fb0@pop.freeserve.net> <4D248548-6E02-11D7-A9E4-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> <5.1.1.6.0.20030413104107.0307ae18@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030416105618.02ef5548@pop.freeserve.net> At 10:48 16/04/2003 +0100, Rob O'Donnell wrote: >Discs are up at http://www.irrelevant.com/cc/ hmm, it truncates the list, so for the record:- AT + Kaypro Setup AT + Kaypro Setup.txt Apricot 286-386 release 1 system disk Apricot 286-386 release 1 system disk.txt [*] DOS3.3+Setup for Wyse.txt Kaypro Keyboard Driver 16bit + Video Emulaton SW Kaypro Keyboard Driver 16bt + Keyboard Emulation SW.txt [*] Kaypro Speedstor Kaypro Speedstor.txt Wyse Enhanced MS-DOS 3.3 System Diskette 1.00 Wyse Enhanced MS-DOS 3.3 System Diskette 1.00.txt [*] Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01 Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01.txt [*] Wyse Setup Wyse Setup-fdiag Wyse Setup-fdiag.txt Wyse Setup.txt at setup at setup.txt Forgot to mention - files are labeled as the discs were - I think "AT setup" means "Wyse AT", as I had another disc labeled such with the same files on it, but with read errors. Certainly Wyse were the main machines we used at the time, so it's unlikely to be anything else. Those marked [*] are actual original discs - others are copies or contain just odd files. Regards Rob. From truthanl at oclc.org Wed Apr 16 07:58:00 2003 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: HH Drives ( Wyse Setup & Test Diskette) Message-ID: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC5088CEEA7@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> Alan, Do you have a Wyse Setup and test diskette? My employer resold Wyse systems for several years. I 'May" be able to get a version of setup and test. Wyse setup & Test diskettes walk you through configuration. You can enter a drive by "type" from tables, or free form, Cylinder, Head, Sector , entries. Usually when the battery is weak these sytems would forget drive configurations, or even loose track of the Floppy drives. Do you have any identifying marks FCCID # etc on the motherboard, Wyse model, date codes. The wyse bios Part number, (version 3.53 was one of the latter ones). They ran a Wyse Version of MS DOS which, allowed larger cluster sizes, Wyse systems could typically run drives larger the the 528MB. If you can characterize your system a little better I might be able to help Larry Truthan, truthanl@oclc.org. Dublin Ohio, USA Digest Subscriber From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Wed Apr 16 08:02:00 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: not old, but cute Atari TV In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030416024052.029fe3b0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> from "Mike Ford" at Apr 16, 2003 02:44:02 AM Message-ID: <200304161300.h3GD0ZGd031355@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Mike Ford > >Gamestop.com a chain of new/used video game cartridge stores has a cute >item, looks pretty much exactly like a Atari joystick, but internally its a >complete console that when hooked to a tv plays about 10 of the classic >Atari arcade games. Look for Atari TV and its about $20. > The item has actually been out quite some time now (last November I believe), and you can get it through Avon and on QVC as well. It is not however, a complete console. They basicly took 10 game roms and ported the 6507 assembly code to work on a custom IC setup of their own. There is no emulator playing actual Atari roms, there are no TIA, 6507 or PIA chips inside. In the process of porting over the games, they managed to screw up a number of things including managing to leave out the original famous easter egg in Adventure. For a full review and listing of the many inherent faults, go ahead and visit: http://www.backntime.net/Atari%20Interactive/Teninone/Frame10in1.html For some odd reason as well, somebody decided to include paddle games as well in the 10 games offered on a joystick setup. From tim.myers at sunplan.com Wed Apr 16 08:07:00 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: DEC disk packs. Message-ID: <000501c30418$cd115fe0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> I have 29 RLO1/RLO2 cartridges, 11 RL07 cartridges, and 3 RM03 cartdridges. If anyone wants to collect them from The Wirral, UK, contact me off list. The need to be collected by the end of this week, they'll be skipped otherwise. Tim. From at258 at osfn.org Wed Apr 16 08:19:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Newspaper layout/typsetting (was Re: new gifts) In-Reply-To: <200304152234.h3FMYpDl005796@io.crash.com> Message-ID: The name began with a C, and used a light beige band on the top of the 11's. The terminals were a mix of VT100's and Maxdata? maybe from Bohemia, NY. Does that ring bells. There were also a couple of Autologic machines that looked derelict. On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, Steve Jones wrote: > > They also seem to bear the name of an aftermarket supplier - > > Systems Industries?- and some sort of system name, which I cannot > > remember, but suggests typesetting. > > May be the Atex (?) system, which I understand was very popular and > is still hanging on in some corners. > > I've got some pictures around here somewhere from one datacenter of > a major metro New York area newspaper showing racks of what I believe > are rebadged pdp-11/x4's (they look recent, so maybe /84, /94, or one > of the goosed third party CPUs) dedicated to running Atex terminals > in newsrooms. > > The systems are using some reasonably modern storage system - might > even be 3.5" form factor. But I wasn't in a position to inspect any- > thing too closely. > > If I run across the snapshots I'll scan them and put them up > somewhere for grins. > > --Steve. > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 16 08:24:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes In-Reply-To: <002201c303df$0271ab20$0200000a@p166mmx> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030416080131.268f8424@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:11 AM 4/16/03 -0500, you wrote: >I know this is a strange request for help, but I have done a lot of >searching for sources of odd sized floppy disks, and haven't had much luck. >The 8" disks are not so much a problem, but from what I can tell, there were >2.0, 2.5, 2.8, 3.0, 3.25, and 4.0 inch formats and finding even one example >has become a challenge for me. Since 3" disks were popular with the >Sinclair systems, these can be had off Ebay, but what of the rest? Zenith used 2" disk in one of their laptops, I think it was called a Mini-Sport. I've found the machines and disk on both E-bay and at hamfest. I used to have two drives and about 13 or 14 disks but gave them away. Mike Haas got them. I gave Don Maslin the 3" drive and disk that I used to have. You can try to talk him out of them. There was a 3 1/4" disk advertised on E-bay just recently. I may have the seller's address if you can't find it by searching E-bay. Joe From drido at optushome.com.au Wed Apr 16 08:36:01 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030416105618.02ef5548@pop.freeserve.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030416104416.02f049e8@pop.freeserve.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20030414221125.02da1fb0@pop.freeserve.net> <4D248548-6E02-11D7-A9E4-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> <5.1.1.6.0.20030413104107.0307ae18@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030416233521.0112f0a8@mail.optushome.com.au> At 11:00 AM 4/16/03 +0100, you wrote: >Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01 >Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01.txt [*] Are these for the Wyse card that drives the WY-800 monitor? I've got one of these monitors somewhere, but have never been able to get anything other than standard 80x25 DOS text mode out of it. Very nice in text mode, larger character cell than VGA, nice characters, long persistance white phoshor CRT. Without drivers it emulates CGA, but I'm pretty sure it's capable of hires mono graphics with the right software/drivers. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 08:58:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Backdoor- WasRe: Some Cool Sun stuff Today In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030416135554.64289.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Doc Shipley wrote: > Best way is to boot single-user from the install CD, mount the root > filesystem, and edit relevant password files. Breaking in without the > CD is a serious PITA. Easiest way without a CD is to install the root drive into another Sun box, mount it and edit the shadow file. :-) There's other techniques if the NVRAM has a password and the boot device is set to something you don't have (like those $5 SPARCclassics I got from the university the year before last - had to set up a network boot to get them up and running to use the eeprom command to clear the password). -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Apr 16 09:12:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Backdoor- WasRe: Some Cool Sun stuff Today In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Tuesday, April 15, 2003, at 10:28 PM, Keys wrote: > > > Great!!! Hope you can find it. > > Best way is to boot single-user from the install CD, mount the root > filesystem, and edit relevant password files. Breaking in without the > CD is a serious PITA. > > Doc > ISTR that I've done it by booting a NetBSD install disk and then doing the same... Peter Wallace From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 09:44:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:03 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030416144153.93159.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- The Design Fort DTP wrote: > Hi again, > > here is the link to my website. I posted a few pictures of the Kenbak-1 > and the manual... Pretty nice. > Again if anybody has information about the Kenbak computer or owns one or > a manual, please contact me. I wish! I take it, then, that the student manual does not have schematics. :-( That's a sparse-looking design. I wonder how hard it would be to render it in a few GALs. The case would be hard to replicate, I'd guess, but a functional implementation shouldn't be hard. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Apr 16 10:01:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: DEC disk packs. In-Reply-To: <000501c30418$cd115fe0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Tim Myers wrote: > I have 29 RLO1/RLO2 cartridges, 11 RL07 cartridges, and 3 RM03 > cartdridges. If anyone wants to collect them from The Wirral, UK, > contact me off list. Crap. I could use a few RL02 carts, but you're on the complete wrong side of the pond. Any chance you'd ship to the states? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From joe_web at worldonline.fr Wed Apr 16 10:10:00 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?B?Sm/rbCBXZWJlcg==?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: New Finds for teh Museum References: <029201c302f2$0130ea70$6d0bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <01a701c3042a$2e9a2f60$1d64a8c0@toi> i'm very interested, what is the price? thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: Keys To: cctech@classiccmp Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 3:54 AM Subject: New Finds for teh Museum > Well the last few days have been fun and I got the following items: > A vintage Hasbro Think-A-Tron toy computer that works great. > > An AMIGA A3000 needs some tender loving care, will not power up right now. > > A Commodore 1403 monitor. > > A Grid notebook model 1660 needs some work. > > A digital Decpc XL590 not tested yet. > > An AT&T 6310 PC. > > Several more mousepads and other items too new to list. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 16 10:17:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: For the record... In-Reply-To: <20030415161328.37453.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > I posted these messages because I want it to stop. > > I want him to stop doing this, rather than having it > tolerated. > > You say you know about it. How about doing something > about it, rather than letting others be attacked and > harrassed by him? > > Because, I'm not willing to just ignore him and allow > him to attack others on the list in the future. This is silly. Please stop trying to make it seem that because I have singled you out for your narrow and simple mind that this is a regular practice of mine. You've referenced "scores of other people" who have contacted you about my nasty behavior. Scores! Wow, that is a lot. I must have pissed off the equivalent of a small community. Where is your proof? Everytime I ask this of people who employ the very tactics you are now doing to attack my character, I get no response. None. Whatsoever. The reality is that there are few people I have sparred with in private mail, and even fewer that have then taken those messages back to the list in an attempt to gain sympathy for their cause. You share company with Bruce Lane and "John Galt". Congratulations. You should be really proud to be a member of this Axis of Weasles. As has been pointed out, this is a serious breach of netiquette. Not to mention revealing of a serious character flaw. However, that is yours to deal with, not mine nor the list's. Are you incapable of understanding that no one is interested in any of your private crusades, let alone mine? As those who have spoken with me in private e-mail and have met me in person, I don't think you'll find many who have anything but a liking and respect for me. Even those whom I've sparred with publicly, once we move the discussion to private and bear it out, we end up coming away with an understanding and mutual respect. The difference between those pepple and you is, quite frankly, the level of intelligence and maturity at hand. > If he does not receive strong admonishment and > feedback that his behaviour is unacceptable (and just > letting him go on and do it unchallenged tells him > it's ok....), why would he ever stop? Will you ever stop? You've been asked by several list members to take your little crusade elsewhere, yet you persist. I've tried to take a personal exchange off the list but you brought it right back on again. Are you even capable of being aware of how immature and selfish that kind of behavior is? Aren't you the one that needs behavior modification? > In return for that, he needs to control himself and > treat members of this list with the respect he himself > receives. The respect returned is the respect I get. Do not attack me without justification, and you'll be fine. Everyone who truly knows me, knows this. I have nothing but friends here. Anyone who would consider me their "enemy" is irrelevant, because as far as I'm concerned, I don't have any. If you want to make me your enemy or adversary then that's really your problem. > I simply sent copies of Sellam's Email and a complaint > to "Postmaster@hisdomain". For all I know, that is he > himself, and he got the complaint and is snickering > about it... heheheheh. > So, posting to this list was an attempt to get others > to cooperate in stopping his hate, without resorting > to the "LEA" (What is that?) or another Govermental > Agency. Maybe you can start a Coalition of the Willing and have me removed from power? If so, then bring it on. The streets will flow with the blood of the infidels! This will be the Mother of All Battles!! Al, really, seek help. If you really have a problem with me, take this back to private e-mail and we'll discuss it. If you won't do that, I'll have nothing to do with you. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Apr 16 10:25:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Forwarded: Please help if you can... Apple issue Message-ID: <200304160822520241.1229F38B@192.168.42.129> Fellow classiccmp'ers, A while back, I forwarded an E-mail I'd received to the list. It came from a school tutor who had some questions about Classic-era Apple computers that I couldn't answer. Unfortunately, there was a typo in his E-mail addy, which would have caused any replies to bounce. That typo has been corrected. Here's the message text again. If anyone can help, please contact him directly. Thanks much. Attachment follows. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Subject: ..Hi.........Can you help? Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:01:11 -0400 From: Randy Sammons Reply-To: Randy Sammons To: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Hello, Can you help me? I tutor math at a juvenile institution outside of Pittsburgh, Pa. and still use an Apple II E computer(made in 1982). My math program is a very good one...but now down to three 5 1/4" disks which were made in 1984. The software company is long out of existence.(Instructional Communications Technoglogy,Inc.) Do you know of anyone who has three useable 5 1/4" disks?..(my disks say: Apple II (48K) Dos 3.3 Version)..and can my three disks be copied? ..Can these disks be copied to a normal 3 1/2" PC disk? Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Randy Sammons Irwin, Pa. 724.864.2719 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 16 10:27:03 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: OT [IGNORE!]: Re: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #556 - 46 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030415163520.68138.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > To expect the current administration to reverse 8 > years (actually 12 years, since Bush 41 made some bad > moves as well in regards to taxes and our economy) in > 28 months is impatient. > > Especially considering that 9/11 caused TRILLIONS in > damage to this economy. The fact that it is as strong > as it still is, and rebounding is a testament to his > good leadership. <...> > The President just made a speech, that should kick the > market up a few more points today. > > I just read an article on the CBS website that says > that MOST Americans believe that Bush is doing a good > job and the economy today is better than a year ago. > > That's why I called your post nasty and mean-spirited. > Because it goes counter to the data in the world. The > data that the economy is improving, and that people > say Bush is doing a GREAT job as President. Reading this, I was reminded of the Iraqi Minister of Information who was telling reporters that the American forces were being routed even though as he spoke American tanks were rolling up on his location. > > In the mean time, your village is looking for > > you! > > I assume by this you intend to say I am liberal? Heheh. "Somewhere there is a village missing its idiot." Somewhere there is an idiot missing his knowledge of popular colloquialisms. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Apr 16 10:28:12 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030416233521.0112f0a8@mail.optushome.com.au> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030416105618.02ef5548@pop.freeserve.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20030416104416.02f049e8@pop.freeserve.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20030414221125.02da1fb0@pop.freeserve.net> <4D248548-6E02-11D7-A9E4-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> <5.1.1.6.0.20030413104107.0307ae18@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030416161742.02e89918@pop.freeserve.net> At 23:35 16/04/2003 +1100, Dr. Ido wrote: >At 11:00 AM 4/16/03 +0100, you wrote: > > >Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01 > >Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01.txt [*] > >Are these for the Wyse card that drives the WY-800 monitor? > >I've got one of these monitors somewhere, but have never been able to get >anything other than standard 80x25 DOS text mode out of it. Very nice in >text mode, larger character cell than VGA, nice characters, long >persistance white phoshor CRT. Without drivers it emulates CGA, but I'm >pretty sure it's capable of hires mono graphics with the right >software/drivers. To be honest, I don't know! Apart from the above description, the label has a part code of 730288-01, (C)Wyse Technology, Inc. 1989. No other info I am afraid.. Files on there include "mpatest.exe" so I suspect if you run that against your card it might indicate something.. regards Rob, From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Apr 16 10:31:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: DEC disk packs. References: Message-ID: <060b01c3042c$7f806960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Here Here... I 2nd that... I'm in need of some RL02 media, and I'd gladly pay shipping if you'd be willing... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 10:04 AM Subject: Re: DEC disk packs. > On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Tim Myers wrote: > > > I have 29 RLO1/RLO2 cartridges, 11 RL07 cartridges, and 3 RM03 > > cartdridges. If anyone wants to collect them from The Wirral, UK, > > contact me off list. > > Crap. I could use a few RL02 carts, but you're on the complete wrong side > of the pond. Any chance you'd ship to the states? > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Apr 16 10:33:13 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: For the record... References: Message-ID: <061901c3042c$b2bb5740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I don't want to see any more of this. Take it to private email. Last warning. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 16 10:37:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: H89 disk transfer program In-Reply-To: <200304151809.LAA04699@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: My knowledge of 8080 assembly is totally weak, but here I go: On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > BOOTSTRP.ASM > > ; 42 BYTE BOOTSTRAP LOADER WITH INIT FOR 8250 > ; INTENDED FOR THE H89 BUT MAY ASLO WORK ON H8. > > > ORG 2300H > LDR: XRA A > OUT LCNTL ; LINE CONTROL > OUT IER ; NO INTERRUPTS > OUT MCNTL ; INIT MODEM CONTROL > DCR A ; SHOULD BE 'MVI A, 80H' BUT 0FFH OK? > OUT LCNTL > MVI A, 0CH ; 9600 BAUD > OUT DVL > XRA A > OUT DVH Why not move this up so you don't have to repeat the XRA A? Or does this have to be here? > MVI A, 07H ; 8 BIT 2 STOPS > OUT LCNTL > IN LSTAT > IN RX ; CLEAR ANY JUNK > LXI H, 2400H ; DEPENDS ON SIZE (TO BE DETERMINED) > LDR1: IN LSTAT > ANI 01 > JZ LDR1 ; WAIT FOR CHAR > IN RX > MOV M,A > DCX H > JMP LDR ; ADDRESS TO BE OVER WRITTEN BY CODE LOADED How does this work if the address is two bytes but the code is loaded one byte at a time? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From deano at rattie.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 16 10:43:00 2003 From: deano at rattie.demon.co.uk (Deano Calver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes References: <002201c303df$0271ab20$0200000a@p166mmx> Message-ID: <07f101c3042e$a1834fd0$2000a8c0@hal> Kurtk7 wrote: > example has become a challenge for me. Since 3" disks were popular > with the Sinclair systems, these can be had off Ebay, but what of the > rest? Its a personal quest to one one copy of every type of > removable media and if anyone has any ideas, sources, information, it > would be most appreciated. I hope to post the collection to a > website as I don't think it has been done. To be correct Amstrad liked 3" discs not Sinclair, when Amstrad brought Sinclair they added them to the Spectrum. Sinclair liked Microdrives. Nintendo 64 DD drives use weird disks. 4x4x0.4 inch discs holding 64Mb with variable writable range (from 1-38Mb), it was only released in Japan. Bye, Deano From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Apr 16 11:17:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Disk and CD found Inside Two Sparc's Message-ID: <023a01c30433$5b32e090$b108dd40@oemcomputer> Today I found a 3.5 floppy in the SPARCstation 10 with the labeling saying SPARC BSD is on it, I have been able to read it yet. In the cd-rom drive on the SPARCserver 20 I found cd titled ORACLE8i The Complete Reference. I can read the cd with my windows machine. From alhartman at yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 11:28:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Apple II Corvus drives? In-Reply-To: <20030416161701.97813.82939.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030416162607.7209.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> > From: Martin Scott Goldberg > > Anyone have any extra old Corvus hard drives? I'm > looking for on for my Apple II display. Thanks! > > Marty I have an "H" series drive and an Apple II specific Omnidrive. Not 100% sure that they are still working, as they have been in storage for over 10 years. I also have controller cards and manuals/software for them. I'd love to adopt them out to a good home, and wouldn't want much for them. I just can't stand to throw classic computer stuff out, but would love to lighten the load around here... They are heavy and shipping would be expensive. It would probably cost more to ship the units than I'd want for them... Contact me off list if you're interested... Regards, Al Hartman The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Apr 16 11:57:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: H89 disk transfer program Message-ID: <200304161655.JAA05514@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Sallam See embedded: >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >My knowledge of 8080 assembly is totally weak, but here I go: > >On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> BOOTSTRP.ASM >> >> ; 42 BYTE BOOTSTRAP LOADER WITH INIT FOR 8250 >> ; INTENDED FOR THE H89 BUT MAY ASLO WORK ON H8. >> >> >> ORG 2300H >> LDR: XRA A >> OUT LCNTL ; LINE CONTROL >> OUT IER ; NO INTERRUPTS >> OUT MCNTL ; INIT MODEM CONTROL >> DCR A ; SHOULD BE 'MVI A, 80H' BUT 0FFH OK? >> OUT LCNTL >> MVI A, 0CH ; 9600 BAUD >> OUT DVL >> XRA A >> OUT DVH > >Why not move this up so you don't have to repeat the XRA A? Or does this >have to be here? The idea is to clear the IER as early as one can to make sure that no interrupts are generated. Since IER and DVH share the same I/O address and are selected by the MSB of the LCNTL, I needs to clear both LCNTL and IER first. Note: the DCR A causes the MSB to be set for the LCNTL that selects the baud rate registers, DVL and DVH. > >> MVI A, 07H ; 8 BIT 2 STOPS >> OUT LCNTL >> IN LSTAT >> IN RX ; CLEAR ANY JUNK >> LXI H, 2400H ; DEPENDS ON SIZE (TO BE DETERMINED) >> LDR1: IN LSTAT >> ANI 01 >> JZ LDR1 ; WAIT FOR CHAR >> IN RX >> MOV M,A >> DCX H >> JMP LDR ; ADDRESS TO BE OVER WRITTEN BY CODE LOADED > >How does this work if the address is two bytes but the code is loaded one >byte at a time? First, the last JMP LDR was suppose to be JMP LDR1 ( my typo ). As long as the high part of the address of the new code to run was the same as LDR1, by writing one byte at a time, overwriting the same high part would not cause the JMP LDR1 to change its action. The next byte to be over written would be the low part of the address. when this happened, the JMP NEW would happen instead. One just need to make sure that the start address of the NEW code has the same high byte. In this case, I can just put it right after the JMP LDR1. It would look something like: Tail end of boot strap: 2328 DCX H 2329 JMP 232A 1E 232B 23 New code to run after load: ORG 232A DW $+2 NEW: New code starts here . . . As you can see, the two will overlap and the final JMP of the bootstrap will be modified to point to the new code on the last loaded value. This is why it is loaded backwards. I should note that Patrick Rigney found one more byte to remove. The sequence: ANI 01 JZ LDR1 could be replaced by: RAR JNC LDR1 Later Dwight > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 12:29:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: ASR33 reader In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030416172635.28878.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > No, that's the standard Teletype automatic reader control relay. The > relay I am refing to is a DEC modification Yes. I've seen it referred to as the "LT-33" mod. > > Are you sure the 8/e actually goes to the trouble of turning > > off/on the reader after EVERY character? At 10 cps that's 100,000 > > Yes. It's done partially in hardware. The relay (and hence the trip > magnet) is turned off as a character is received by the PDP. The computer > then has to set a bit on the serial card (I can remember how to do this > on a PDP11, but not on the PDP8) to restart the reader. In the case of the PDP-8, whether it's an M8650 OMNIBUS card, or the M-series M706 or even the DTL W-series W706, it all works similarly. The KCC IOT (6032) clears the Reader Run flip-flop that drives the buffer that activates the relay. For the TTL and DTL cards, there are 3 combinable IOTs related to console input (the M8650 doesn't allow combining the KSF with the other IOTs, but in practice, that wasn't done): KSF (6031) - Skip on Keyboard Flag KCC (6032) - Clear Keyboard Flag KRS (6034) - Read Keyboard Buffer Static KRB (6036) - Read Keyboard Buffer Dynamic (combined KCC + KRS) When the code running on the PDP-8 tells the console hardware to read a byte from the console, the normal sequence of IOTs toggles the bit without any extra programming required. Example (from the "1966 PDP-8 Users Handbook") LOOK, KSF /SKIP WHEN TTI IS FLUSHED JMP LOOK KRB /READ TTI INTO AC You can use a KRS to just peek at the TTI (TTY In) buffer register on the console interface, but, since you would still have to clear the buffer with a second instruction, it was rarely used. AFAIK, the relay does not impinge on the keyboard path, just the stepper relay of the papertape reader, so there is no such throttling of the TTY keyboard. For "modern" uses, people have made minor modifications to the M8650 board to handshake bytes for, say, PeeCee-based papertape emulators, but normally, it's hit-or-miss on overflow if you disregard the relay output (eg. EIA/RS-232 cables from an unmodified M8650). Non-console TTYs (DZ-11 w/20mA distribution panel, etc.) used a 4-wire interface (2 current loops) and were not typically used to load data via papertape. -ethan References (all available through www.pdp8.net) "dec-8i-hr2a-d-pr.pdf", page 35, or page "II-31" of paper document "D-BS-8I-0-11", titled "Teletype Receivers". "PDP-8/e/f/m Minicomputer Handbook", page 13 of the PDF scan of chapters 1-3, or page 1-13 of the paper version. "1966 PDP-8 Users Handbook", pages 72-73 of the PDF or pages 58 and 59 of the paper copy). The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 12:32:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: DEC disk packs. In-Reply-To: <060b01c3042c$7f806960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030416172932.9066.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jay West wrote: > Here Here... I 2nd that... I'm in need of some RL02 media, and I'd gladly > pay shipping if you'd be willing... What are packs going for over here? I'm sure shipping is a big deal, intra-state or inter-national, because of padding requirements. DEC used to ship packs between these urethane foam box ends. I wonder how those have held up over the years. Many of mine are damaged here and there. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 16 12:44:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes In-Reply-To: <002201c303df$0271ab20$0200000a@p166mmx> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Kurtk7 wrote: > The 8" disks are not so much a problem, but from what I can tell, there were > 2.0, 2.5, 2.8, 3.0, 3.25, and 4.0 inch formats and finding even one example Also: 2.9" 3.9" and, of course, 5.25" (soft-sector, hard-sector (10 and 16), twiggy) 3.5" (early ones without shutter, manual shutter, one-way shutter, floptical) From acme at ao.net Wed Apr 16 12:46:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: DEC newbie (was need caddy for RRD-42DA CD-ROM drive) Message-ID: <200304161744.h3GHiKue012940@eola.ao.net> > i have 2 of these caddies. there is a store in redondo beach ca that had > stacks of them. i don't know if they still do.i can check for you if you > need some. they were top loading. i can part with mine if necessary but > they do go with 2 plextor 4x cdroms. > > jeff duncan Thanks Jeff, but I took Zane's advice and found some on eBay. Later -- Glen 0/0 From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Apr 16 12:48:00 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: ( Wyse Setup & Test Diskette) Message-ID: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A8E7@exch2000.cmh.internal> My first Pc was an Amdek/Wyse 10Mhz 8086. I had installed an RLL 30MB drive in it. We used Wyse's and PS/2 model 25's at work. I have the original hard drive from my Wyse and the diskettes somewhere. I'll look Mike m m c f a d d e n @ c m h . e d u From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 16 12:57:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030416233521.0112f0a8@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Dr. Ido wrote: > >Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01 > >Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01.txt [*] > Are these for the Wyse card that drives the WY-800 monitor? > I've got one of these monitors somewhere, but have never been able to get > anything other than standard 80x25 DOS text mode out of it. Very nice in > text mode, larger character cell than VGA, nice characters, long > persistance white phoshor CRT. Without drivers it emulates CGA, but I'm > pretty sure it's capable of hires mono graphics with the right > software/drivers. It was also sold as the Amdek 1280. Try to find a newer version of the drivers (I doubt that I can find mine). There were drivers available through Windoze 3.10, as well as drivers for Xerox Ventura, etc. The 1280 x 800 mode was one of the best of its time. One common problem was a gradual loss of brightness. There was another brightness control inside the case that couldbe cranked up to get another year or so before it became too dim to use. One other common problem was idiots plugging it into a EGA, CGA, or MDA board (or plugging a regular monitor into its special board). -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 16 13:44:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: FAT16 2G trivia (was: HH drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > If they're FAT16 (2.1Gb max recognition), maybe you can get hold of an Would 65535 be considered to be 65.5K here? How many bytes are in a K? M? G? The maximum size for most FAT16 partitions is 2147483647, which is 2 to the 31st power minus 1, or 2 HONEST Gigabytes (minus 1). The size limit is due to the use in MS-DOS of a long int, which is a 32 bit signed number. A long int has a range from -2147483648 to 2147483647. That was an error; they should have used a UNSIGNED long int (0 to 4294967295) The long int is also used for file size. Thus, for many versions of MS-DOS, the range of file sizes is also -2147483648 to 2147483647. One time, when the free space on one of my hard drives was getting sparse, I took a floppy disk and stepped on one of the directory entries to give it a reported file size of -2147483648. Then I tried to copy that negative 2 gig file to the hard drive. What effect should there be on free space if you add a file with a negative size? It didn't work. What was even more fun was trying to explain to the MICROS~1 "Beta team" management why things like file size should be unsigned. In NT (not sure if ALL versions), they switched from a long int to an unsigned long int (which it should have been from the get go). Because of that, a FAT16 partition in NT can be up to 2 to the 32nd power minus one, 4294967295, or FOUR HONEST/binary gigabytes (minus one byte). But those partitions are only readable by NT, since MS-DOS (and WINDOZE9x) sees them as having a negative size. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Apr 16 13:48:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Wyse 700 not 800 Message-ID: <21.2de1636e.2bceff02@aol.com> In a message dated 4/16/03 10:57:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cisin@xenosoft.com writes: > It was also sold as the Amdek 1280. Try to find a newer version of the > drivers (I doubt that I can find mine). There were drivers available > through Windoze 3.10, as well as drivers for Xerox Ventura, etc. The 1280 > x 800 mode was one of the best of its time. > I used one in a XT about 1990. Great monitor. However I think the monitor is a Wyse 700 not an 800 if you are looking for drivers. Originally with a matching 8 bit ISA double card IIRC. They also made a 19" 7XXX series of High res mono white monitors. Paxton Astoria, OR From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 13:52:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: new gifts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030416185028.19396.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- William Donzelli wrote: > > The systems are two identical DEC PDP-11/70's that seem to date from > > the early 1980's. There are two CDC 9766 drives... aftermarket > > supplier - Systems Industries? > > SI made lots of disk products for DECs. My first 11/750 had an SI9900 on it from the day it was used by the original owner. My 11/70s also have SI9900s - they are, in their simplest form, a 5.25"-tall rack-mounted box with cards that talk to hosts (over MASSBUS for the 11/750 and 11/70; over Qbus or Unibus for "lesser" machines), and cards that talk to drives (SMD, as far as I've seen). You can pack several of each kind on their respective sides of the enclosure. The 11/750 controlled two drives and had a total of three cards (one host, two drive) I know they made wads of other, less elaborate, interfaces. The 11/70s also came with SI-badged tape drives, in 60" Corporate-Cab- style cabinets. > At one point I had a somewhat trashed Diablo drive for a PDP-8/E > RKmumble), with an SI interface board and power supply. I haven't seen an OMNIBUS SI controller for Diablos, but the PDP-8/m-based Mass Spectrometer at the Vet School at Ohio State had a different brand of dual-ported controller - the operator would switch a drive to face the -8/m that ran the mass spec, collect samples, then flip the drive to face the -8/m that had the Tektronix terminals, analyze and print the results. I'm sorry I never got that machine when they dumped it - two CPUs, 24K of core each (IIRC), two 4014 terminals, a 9-track mag tape, 4 or 5 Diablo model 30s, and a Xebec? dual-ported OMNIBUS disk controller, all in 4 racks! At least I got to play on it when the mass spec was being torn down and cleaned. :-) -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Apr 16 13:55:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: New finds: documentation Message-ID: Just picked these up today, "helping to clean out" a room in my department at Purdue. I now have a small VAX/VMS Orange Wall: - Basic User's Manual - Basic Reference Guide - System Manager's manual Volumes 1-6 - Guide to VAX/VMS Disk and Magnetic Tape Operations - 8" Floppy: "AS-1T215G-DE 071812 RX41 11780 EUROPE RD CONSOLE PROPERTY OF DEC (C)1981,84 Digital Equipment Corporation" -- has a sticker with the number "18" on it. - "Introduction to the PDP-11/80 Resource Sharing Timesharing System/Extended (RSTS/E) G.F. Wyncott William I. Bormann" 106 pages. -- George Wyncott still works here, and does software licensing for Purdue. Marked "W0 RSTS (3/86)" - presumably from March 1986? - "RSTS/E Device Requests" by Jeffrey L. Clark, "(11/79) W0-DEVICE". 19 pages. I'm hoping to get time to scan the last two documents, which are interesting to read, and possibly somewhat helpful to RSTS/E people. Also, they don't have Copyrights on them, so I'll try to get them posted to my website. If anyone is interested in a copy of anything here, let me know off-list. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Apr 16 14:27:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: DEC disk packs. In-Reply-To: <000501c30418$cd115fe0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> Message-ID: If you'll ship to the states, I could *seriously* use all the RL01 packs I can get my hands on. My PDP-11/34 FINALLY booted RSX-11M the other day, and I have a whole bunch of RL01s that I really need to back up, plus I need some for file storage of my own. -- Owen Robertson on 4/16/03 8:05 AM, Tim Myers at tim.myers@sunplan.com wrote: > I have 29 RLO1/RLO2 cartridges, 11 RL07 cartridges, and 3 RM03 > cartdridges. If anyone wants to collect them from The Wirral, UK, > contact me off list. > > The need to be collected by the end of this week, they'll be skipped > otherwise. From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Apr 16 14:32:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: New finds: documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > - "Introduction to the PDP-11/80 Oops, that should read "PDP-11/70". Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Just picked these up today, "helping to clean out" a room in my department > at Purdue. I now have a small VAX/VMS Orange Wall: > > - Basic User's Manual > - Basic Reference Guide > - System Manager's manual Volumes 1-6 > - Guide to VAX/VMS Disk and Magnetic Tape Operations > > - 8" Floppy: > "AS-1T215G-DE 071812 > RX41 11780 EUROPE RD CONSOLE > PROPERTY OF DEC > (C)1981,84 Digital Equipment Corporation" > -- has a sticker with the number "18" on it. > > - "Introduction to the PDP-11/80 > Resource Sharing Timesharing System/Extended (RSTS/E) > G.F. Wyncott > William I. Bormann" > 106 pages. > -- George Wyncott still works here, and does software licensing for > Purdue. Marked "W0 RSTS (3/86)" - presumably from March 1986? > > - "RSTS/E Device Requests" by Jeffrey L. Clark, "(11/79) W0-DEVICE". > 19 pages. > > I'm hoping to get time to scan the last two documents, which are > interesting to read, and possibly somewhat helpful to RSTS/E people. > Also, they don't have Copyrights on them, so I'll try to get them posted > to my website. > > If anyone is interested in a copy of anything here, let me know off-list. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 16 14:50:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. (fwd) Message-ID: This guy has obviously mined the classiccmp mail list for his address list! - don ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:00:02 +0200 From: Alexander Thaler To: peraza@uia.ua.ac.be, ingesudl@aol.com, anonymouys@bogus-address.con, fodder1@ureach.com, iam@here.com, j.bus@athccnet.dotnl, rstevew@deepthought.armory.com, fjscipio@rochester.rr.com, dmabry@mich.com, anthony.rhill@tiscali.co.uk, ralf_quint@hottmail.com, raj@rijhwani.org, prhunt@dyson.brisnet.org.au, herby@memotech.franken.de, mike@spurgeon.net, anonymous@bogus-address.con, jimbo@sonic.net, seanb51229@aol.com, rkulhanek@gmx.de, usenetreply@xs4all.nl, rolfharrmann@t-online.de, stanb45@dial.pipex.com, msxhans@yahoo.com, peter.schorn@acm.org, shirkahn@busoutoshi.net, j.cammell@xtra.co.nz, niemz@hagemann-druck.de, wes.parish@paradise.net.nz, bill_leary@msn.com, john@guntersville.net, rdoerr@bizserve.com, kth@srv.net, halbower@worldnet.att.net, tmartin@s100classics.org, ruud.baltissen@abp.nl, harry_zandbergen@hotmail.com, a.stuurman@kader.hobby.nl, m10766@abc.se, terrygski@cfl.rr.com, invalid_email@guestwho.com, john.hotdog.jardine@hotmail.com, vze337gt@verizon.net, supertrone@hotmail.com, dkelvey@hotmail.com, rgerlach@nowhere.com.au, peacock@simconv.com, stevejdubrovich@digitalme.com, hharte@hartetec.com, thosmm@yahoo.com, donm@crash.cts.com, snyder@gonzaga.edu, jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk, c@c.com, larry_fosdick@hotmail.com, anonymous@bogus_address.con, greenwoo@misu.nodak.edu, ndrez@att.net, hjohnson@zzznjcc.com, salle.arobase@wanadoo.fr, mjmahon@aol.com, cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net, cbfalconer@yahoo.com, axel_berger@su2.maus.de, leeahart@earthlink.net, daveh@ci.com.au, s_dubrovich@yahoo.com, jce@seasip.demon.co.uk, paralegl@cwo.com, watzman@neo.rr.com, blackm00@cam.org Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. ----- Original message follows ----- Microsoft Customer this is the latest version of security update, the "April 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which eliminates all known security vulnerabilities affecting Internet Explorer, Outlook and Outlook Express as well as five newly discovered vulnerabilities. Install now to protect your computer from these vulnerabilities, the most serious of which could allow an attacker to run executable on your system. This update includes the functionality of all previously released patches. System requirements: Win 9x/Me/2000/NT/XP [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/X-MSDOWNLOAD which had a NAME of update797.exe] From jim at jkearney.com Wed Apr 16 15:10:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Try this security update from Microsoft. (fwd) References: Message-ID: <00d301c30453$ea292eb0$1301090a@xpace.net> > This guy has obviously mined the classiccmp mail list for his > address list! > - don This message is from a trojan/worm that uses the Windows Address Book to spread - I've gotten lots of them recently. So, more likely, one of the subscribers to this list is infected. Here are the details: http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.gibe.b@mm.html > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:00:02 +0200 > From: Alexander Thaler From spedraja at ono.com Wed Apr 16 15:12:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Try this security update from Microsoft. (fwd) References: Message-ID: <014001c30454$22f8cac0$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> It's some kind of virus or trojan, I think. I've received this evening one message same than this from one "Bob Stacey". Be careful. Best Regards Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 9:48 PM Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. (fwd) > This guy has obviously mined the classiccmp mail list for his > address list! > - don > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:00:02 +0200 > From: Alexander Thaler > To: peraza@uia.ua.ac.be, ingesudl@aol.com, anonymouys@bogus-address.con, > fodder1@ureach.com, iam@here.com, j.bus@athccnet.dotnl, > rstevew@deepthought.armory.com, fjscipio@rochester.rr.com, dmabry@mich.com, > anthony.rhill@tiscali.co.uk, ralf_quint@hottmail.com, raj@rijhwani.org, > prhunt@dyson.brisnet.org.au, herby@memotech.franken.de, mike@spurgeon.net, > anonymous@bogus-address.con, jimbo@sonic.net, seanb51229@aol.com, > rkulhanek@gmx.de, usenetreply@xs4all.nl, rolfharrmann@t-online.de, > stanb45@dial.pipex.com, msxhans@yahoo.com, peter.schorn@acm.org, > shirkahn@busoutoshi.net, j.cammell@xtra.co.nz, niemz@hagemann-druck.de, > wes.parish@paradise.net.nz, bill_leary@msn.com, john@guntersville.net, > rdoerr@bizserve.com, kth@srv.net, halbower@worldnet.att.net, > tmartin@s100classics.org, ruud.baltissen@abp.nl, > harry_zandbergen@hotmail.com, a.stuurman@kader.hobby.nl, m10766@abc.se, > terrygski@cfl.rr.com, invalid_email@guestwho.com, > john.hotdog.jardine@hotmail.com, vze337gt@verizon.net, > supertrone@hotmail.com, dkelvey@hotmail.com, rgerlach@nowhere.com.au, > peacock@simconv.com, stevejdubrovich@digitalme.com, hharte@hartetec.com, > thosmm@yahoo.com, donm@crash.cts.com, snyder@gonzaga.edu, > jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk, c@c.com, larry_fosdick@hotmail.com, > anonymous@bogus_address.con, greenwoo@misu.nodak.edu, ndrez@att.net, > hjohnson@zzznjcc.com, salle.arobase@wanadoo.fr, mjmahon@aol.com, > cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net, cbfalconer@yahoo.com, axel_berger@su2.maus.de, > leeahart@earthlink.net, daveh@ci.com.au, s_dubrovich@yahoo.com, > jce@seasip.demon.co.uk, paralegl@cwo.com, watzman@neo.rr.com, > blackm00@cam.org > Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. > > > ----- Original message follows ----- > > Microsoft Customer > > this is the latest version of security update, the > "April 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which eliminates all > known security vulnerabilities affecting Internet Explorer, > Outlook and Outlook Express as well as five newly discovered > vulnerabilities. Install now to protect your computer from these > vulnerabilities, the most serious of which could allow an attacker to > run executable on your system. This update includes the functionality > of all previously released patches. > > System requirements: > Win 9x/Me/2000/NT/XP > > > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/X-MSDOWNLOAD which had a NAME of update797.exe] From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Apr 16 15:14:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually, that's a virus payload. There is no such fix. g. On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Don Maslin wrote: > This guy has obviously mined the classiccmp mail list for his > address list! > - don > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:00:02 +0200 > From: Alexander Thaler > To: peraza@uia.ua.ac.be, ingesudl@aol.com, anonymouys@bogus-address.con, > fodder1@ureach.com, iam@here.com, j.bus@athccnet.dotnl, > rstevew@deepthought.armory.com, fjscipio@rochester.rr.com, dmabry@mich.com, > anthony.rhill@tiscali.co.uk, ralf_quint@hottmail.com, raj@rijhwani.org, > prhunt@dyson.brisnet.org.au, herby@memotech.franken.de, mike@spurgeon.net, > anonymous@bogus-address.con, jimbo@sonic.net, seanb51229@aol.com, > rkulhanek@gmx.de, usenetreply@xs4all.nl, rolfharrmann@t-online.de, > stanb45@dial.pipex.com, msxhans@yahoo.com, peter.schorn@acm.org, > shirkahn@busoutoshi.net, j.cammell@xtra.co.nz, niemz@hagemann-druck.de, > wes.parish@paradise.net.nz, bill_leary@msn.com, john@guntersville.net, > rdoerr@bizserve.com, kth@srv.net, halbower@worldnet.att.net, > tmartin@s100classics.org, ruud.baltissen@abp.nl, > harry_zandbergen@hotmail.com, a.stuurman@kader.hobby.nl, m10766@abc.se, > terrygski@cfl.rr.com, invalid_email@guestwho.com, > john.hotdog.jardine@hotmail.com, vze337gt@verizon.net, > supertrone@hotmail.com, dkelvey@hotmail.com, rgerlach@nowhere.com.au, > peacock@simconv.com, stevejdubrovich@digitalme.com, hharte@hartetec.com, > thosmm@yahoo.com, donm@crash.cts.com, snyder@gonzaga.edu, > jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk, c@c.com, larry_fosdick@hotmail.com, > anonymous@bogus_address.con, greenwoo@misu.nodak.edu, ndrez@att.net, > hjohnson@zzznjcc.com, salle.arobase@wanadoo.fr, mjmahon@aol.com, > cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net, cbfalconer@yahoo.com, axel_berger@su2.maus.de, > leeahart@earthlink.net, daveh@ci.com.au, s_dubrovich@yahoo.com, > jce@seasip.demon.co.uk, paralegl@cwo.com, watzman@neo.rr.com, > blackm00@cam.org > Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. > > > ----- Original message follows ----- > > Microsoft Customer > > this is the latest version of security update, the > "April 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which eliminates all > known security vulnerabilities affecting Internet Explorer, > Outlook and Outlook Express as well as five newly discovered > vulnerabilities. Install now to protect your computer from these > vulnerabilities, the most serious of which could allow an attacker to > run executable on your system. This update includes the functionality > of all previously released patches. > > System requirements: > Win 9x/Me/2000/NT/XP > > > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/X-MSDOWNLOAD which had a NAME of update797.exe] From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Apr 16 15:22:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Fwd: Seeking good home(s) for old hardware [UK] Message-ID: Here's something of possible interest to rightpondians. -brian. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:23:51 +0000 >From: John Carlyle-Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Seeking good home(s) for old hardware Can anyone provide any suggestions, flippant or otherwise, as to where I might seek new homes for some old kit that has been cluttering my attic for many years? My wife is putting her foot down, and frankly I am never going to do anything with it. I am paring down my collection of old computers and peripherals to a few that I will actually use, and trying to find people who will actually use the others. So I need homes for: * SWTPC 6809 computer. Main unit, disk unit inc. 8 1/2" Qume floppy drive, Western digital harddisk controller but no HDD. VDU/terminal (not working). Used to run Uniflex (but I don't have this, since the hard disk crashed and there were no originals provided). I have all the hardware and software manuals. I have seen this computer working but it has been stored a long time. * Remex paper tape reader/writer (works as far as I know, but I don't have the cables for it). * Diablo daisy wheel (have seen it working but about 17 years ago!) It's a long shot, but somebody may be able to help. I can provide more details if anyone is interested. Mail me at jpcc "at" bigfoot "dot" com if you prefer. I am in the UK. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Apr 16 15:26:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes Message-ID: <200304162022.NAA05626@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > >On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Kurtk7 wrote: >> The 8" disks are not so much a problem, but from what I can tell, there were >> 2.0, 2.5, 2.8, 3.0, 3.25, and 4.0 inch formats and finding even one example I don't know that 8 inch were all that regular. You have 16 hard sectored and 32 hard sectored. You even have a hard sectored with the holes around the outside of the disk instead of the center. Now, add single/double density and single/double sided. Dwight > >Also: >2.9" >3.9" > >and, of course, >5.25" (soft-sector, hard-sector (10 and 16), twiggy) >3.5" (early ones without shutter, manual shutter, one-way shutter, >floptical) From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 16 15:35:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: [Slightly OT] IBM Typewriter Ribbons Message-ID: This is probably off topic, but maybe only slightly. I don't know the age of the Typewriters in question. Does anyone need 3 unopened typewriter ribbons for an IBM/Lexmark typewriter. I don't know which model specifically, but the ribbon is labeled as: IBM Easystrike Superior Write Correctable Ribbon #1380999 by Lexmark If anyone has the typewriter these go to and wants 3 of these ribbons, unopened, still in their box, let me know... you can have them (just pay postage, they should be under one pound so it should be really cheap). Also, if anyone knows what typewriter they go to, let me know. I'm curious why I have 3 of them, and maybe if I knew what they went to I might know why they were purchased. They are going in the trash in the next few days, so respond quick if you want them. -chris From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Apr 16 15:40:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. (fwd) Message-ID: <200304162037.NAA05635@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Don I've gotten this several times on my hotmail account as well. I just hope that most people are not stupid enough to ask for it and put it on their machines. I doubt anyone on this list is that stupid so mining list list would be a waste of time. Dwight >From: "Don Maslin" > >This guy has obviously mined the classiccmp mail list for his >address list! > - don > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:00:02 +0200 >From: Alexander Thaler >To: peraza@uia.ua.ac.be, ingesudl@aol.com, anonymouys@bogus-address.con, > fodder1@ureach.com, iam@here.com, j.bus@athccnet.dotnl, > rstevew@deepthought.armory.com, fjscipio@rochester.rr.com, dmabry@mich.com, > anthony.rhill@tiscali.co.uk, ralf_quint@hottmail.com, raj@rijhwani.org, > prhunt@dyson.brisnet.org.au, herby@memotech.franken.de, mike@spurgeon.net, > anonymous@bogus-address.con, jimbo@sonic.net, seanb51229@aol.com, > rkulhanek@gmx.de, usenetreply@xs4all.nl, rolfharrmann@t-online.de, > stanb45@dial.pipex.com, msxhans@yahoo.com, peter.schorn@acm.org, > shirkahn@busoutoshi.net, j.cammell@xtra.co.nz, niemz@hagemann-druck.de, > wes.parish@paradise.net.nz, bill_leary@msn.com, john@guntersville.net, > rdoerr@bizserve.com, kth@srv.net, halbower@worldnet.att.net, > tmartin@s100classics.org, ruud.baltissen@abp.nl, > harry_zandbergen@hotmail.com, a.stuurman@kader.hobby.nl, m10766@abc.se, > terrygski@cfl.rr.com, invalid_email@guestwho.com, > john.hotdog.jardine@hotmail.com, vze337gt@verizon.net, > supertrone@hotmail.com, dkelvey@hotmail.com, rgerlach@nowhere.com.au, > peacock@simconv.com, stevejdubrovich@digitalme.com, hharte@hartetec.com, > thosmm@yahoo.com, donm@crash.cts.com, snyder@gonzaga.edu, > jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk, c@c.com, larry_fosdick@hotmail.com, > anonymous@bogus_address.con, greenwoo@misu.nodak.edu, ndrez@att.net, > hjohnson@zzznjcc.com, salle.arobase@wanadoo.fr, mjmahon@aol.com, > cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net, cbfalconer@yahoo.com, axel_berger@su2.maus.de, > leeahart@earthlink.net, daveh@ci.com.au, s_dubrovich@yahoo.com, > jce@seasip.demon.co.uk, paralegl@cwo.com, watzman@neo.rr.com, > blackm00@cam.org >Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. > > >----- Original message follows ----- > >Microsoft Customer > >this is the latest version of security update, the >"April 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which eliminates all >known security vulnerabilities affecting Internet Explorer, >Outlook and Outlook Express as well as five newly discovered >vulnerabilities. Install now to protect your computer from these >vulnerabilities, the most serious of which could allow an attacker to >run executable on your system. This update includes the functionality >of all previously released patches. > >System requirements: >Win 9x/Me/2000/NT/XP > > > >[demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/X-MSDOWNLOAD which had a NAME of update797.exe] From patrick at evocative.com Wed Apr 16 16:38:01 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200304162037.NAA05635@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: Don, I'd guess this is part of an earnest, recently-launched campaign that I think might be even more generic. I have of late received many (all deMIMEd) emails with similar content from several people who I know for a fact are not on cctalk. It may well be, however, that one of us accidently was infected by its payload, and that payload is now emailing everyone in that person's address book. I know a lot of people who use Outlook's "Put everyone I reply to in my Address Book" feature, which would then easily result in this effect, particularly for someone who has been on the list for a while and carried on a few off-list conversations. In any case, it seems to be going around. The most recent I received, just this morning, came under the guise of being a virus scanner/remover/innoculator for Klez that should be run immediately, "before infecting [sic] can occur." Riiiiight... Patrick > >From: "Don Maslin" > > > >This guy has obviously mined the classiccmp mail list for his > >address list! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 16 17:08:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Commodore 16 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <000801c3036a$58fc1cc0$9cc59144@ahoneni2dtn3ze> from "h.ahonen" at Apr 15, 3 10:16:18 am Message-ID: > Hi, > Can someone please help me. > I have a Commodore 16 computer without Power Supply. > I understan it requires 9VDC source at 1A. > What is the polarity of the connector? Is plus (+) on the center pin > or on the sleeve? THe service manual doesn't actually show the connector, it just numbers the 2 connections '1' and '2'. However, it's clear from the schematic that the +ve side goes to the power switch (a single pole device), so it should be easy to check which this is with an ohmmeter. The -ve connection goes to the systgem 0V rail, which should also be easy to find. I _think_, from looking at the PCB overlay, that the centre is -ve, but check this before blowing up the machine! -tony From tosteve at yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 17:44:01 2003 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030416224229.64806.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Hmm, try saying that 3 times real fast... The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Apr 16 17:56:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Classic Spring Cleaning photos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004101c3046b$6987b8e0$6300a8c0@benchbox> Yes and no. This machine is also an Eagle but was made a teensy bit later on. The original Eagle was a rackmount machine. All the boards will interchange though. Mine came without the 9track drive and with 2mb ram. I ripped the 9track out of an mv9800? And the ram card as well. I got this machine BECAUSE of Tracy Kidder's book. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 1:26 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Classic Spring Cleaning photos On Tuesday, April 15, 2003, at 07:51 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > Well, it is that time again I suppose. While going through stuff, I'm > taking pictures: > > http://technoid.dyndns.org > > So far I have the Sparc, the AtariSt, and the Data General MV4000/dc is this the "soul of a new machine" machine? > featured. I think the MV4000 has the prettiest memory board of all time > short of those nifty ruby-rod cores I once saw.... > > BTW, this website is running on an Atari Mega ST4 running MiNT. > > Regards and best wishes all, > > Jeff From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Apr 16 17:57:43 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: Some Cool Sun stuff Today In-Reply-To: <200304160132.h3G1WuEL006812@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <004201c3046b$6aca23f0$6300a8c0@benchbox> If that machine is running Solaris, booting single won't get you there. You'll still need the root pw to get a prompt. I have a way though. Email me and I'll give you the skinny on how to break this machine. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 9:33 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Some Cool Sun stuff Today > A Sun SPARCserver 20 model 544 with 2-20gig HD's, 256 MB memory and loaded > with software but I have no password to login with. Isn't the model that has 4 50Mhz CPU's? If so that *IS* a *VERY COOL* find! You can probably boot it in single user mode and clear the password. Zane From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Apr 16 18:00:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: 1000+ DEC PDF manuals on the web In-Reply-To: <20030408120614.GA7734@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <000901c3046b$8de73ee0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > I have mirrored Tim Shoppa's great collection at > http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu/dec94mds . This site should have > plenty of bandwidth since the machine is located in the > Virginia Tech Information Services Building. Just in case anyone is interested, there's what looks like a January 2000 set of the same CDs (but newer) on ebay right now: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3603918902&category =3806 US & Canada only, no bids so far. $25. I assume that it has some of the newer docs available. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From anheier at owt.com Wed Apr 16 18:03:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: PCI cards available Message-ID: I have two recent pulls, functionality unknown: ATTO Express PCI PSC Single channel ultrawide SCSI-3 host adapter, $15 3Com Fast Etherlink XL PCI 10/100BASE TX, $10 prefer paypal, contact me off line Thanks Norm From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Apr 16 18:18:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:04 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info In-Reply-To: <3E4143BC.8090801@theriver.com> Message-ID: <004f01c3046e$75bd26b0$6300a8c0@benchbox> Computer Parts Barn of Asheville, NC has several sets of Aviion install disks. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Ponsford Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:03 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: aviion 4000 info Hi All Well I picked up a couple of Aviions about 2 months ago for about $2.50 at our local University auction. I got 2 AV530's (dual procs) and 2 300CD's none of them have any disks, so I'm looking for some install media. I'll gladly donate one of the 300CD's either whole,board or chip to the cause, if you need it cheers, Tom r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Steve Jones wrote: > > >>'r. bear stricklin' was collecting NVRAM dumps for analysis, so >>we can try to load usable data into replacement parts, but I've >>no idea where that stands. I haven't bothered getting a part to >>see if, like Suns, the machine will function at all with an >>uninitialized NVRAM. Anyway if you search the archive for his >>name or Aviion I'm sure you'll find the relevant post. Or head >>to this URL: http://www.bears.org/~red/museum/aviion-nvram.html > > > It's true, I am. > > The project is languishing at the moment for lack of some 'breakthrough' > data. I have what I was able to restore my AV310CD to, and several > different samples from AV530 systems. I'm hoping somebody will donate > NVRAM dumps from some other models. > > I have only two AViiONs at the moment, and the only one that is known good > is too new to support the 'examine memory' command at the console monitor. > My AV310 came to me with a dead NVRAM, and is mostly running now with a > new 48T02, that I reprogrammed with as much information as I knew about. > THere are still a few glitches I believe are related to missing > information in the NVRAM; the biggest one is related to the graphics > configuration and is preventing X from starting. > > The good news is a lot of the most important stuff in the NVRAM is > easily recoverable, and that unlike Suns, the ethernet MAC address is > stored in non-volatile storage. I should write a recovery procedure with > as much information as I know now. I was hoping to do it when the whole > mystery had been unravelled, but in the meanwhile folks should be able to > get their systems recovered enough to at least boot the OS. > > I'm always happy to answer questions relating to resurrecting old m88k > AViiONs. > > ok > r. From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Apr 16 18:23:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: RSTS/E Docs online (was Re: New finds: documentation) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've placed the two RSTS/E docs I got online, as PDF's: - "Introduction to the PDP-11/70 Resource Sharing Timesharing System/Extended (RSTS/E) G.F. Wyncott William I. Bormann" 106 pages. Marked "W0 RSTS (3/86)" - presumably from March 1986? -- George Wyncott still works here, and does software licensing for Purdue. - "RSTS/E Device Requests" by Jeffrey L. Clark, "(11/79) W0-DEVICE". 19 pages. in http://purdueriots.com/classiccmp/rstse/ . Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Apr 16 18:28:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Big Want List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005901c3046f$f3419bb0$6300a8c0@benchbox> The Atari model 825 printer is in fact a Centronics 733 printer. Really really heavy duty too. Eight-pin dot matrix and used an octagonal steel bar in place of a rubber platen. I left mine printing once and forgot the cr/lf switch. It drove 80 perfect rectangular holes in the paper before I caught what was going on. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 3:13 PM To: Classic Computers Mailing List; Bay Area Computer Collector List Subject: Big Want List I'm working on a rather large project and am looking for the following computers and hardware: Cromemco Z2D (and periperhals) Cromemco System Three (and peripherals) Centronics printer (103 or any model) DEC Rainbow 100 (and peripherals) DEC Pro350 Heathkit H11 (and peripherals) Micro-Term ACT I (terminal) NEC SpinWriter NorthStar Dimension Ohio Scientific Challenger (any model, prefer II or III) OSM Zeus (any model) SWTPc 6800 (and peripherals) Vector Graphics (prefer MZ/2) Fortune Systems 32:16 Dynalogic Hyperion Corvus Concept (and peripherals) (Peripherals include monitors, keyboards, terminals, disk drives, hard drives, printers, etc.) I am also interested in any and all collateral material including: * System software (originals preferred) * Application software (originals preferred) * Manuals and schematics * Related magazines * Related books * Ephemera such as posters, buttons, mugs, etc. If you have anything on the above list please contact me with an asking price. International or domestic. I can also be reached by phone at +1 925/294-5900. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From kth at srv.net Wed Apr 16 19:04:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. (fwd) References: Message-ID: <3E9DF695.9050208@srv.net> Patrick Rigney wrote: >Don, > >I'd guess this is part of an earnest, recently-launched campaign that I >think might be even more generic. I have of late received many (all > I've been getting such emails for months, but they have been blocked by my ISP's virus scanners. It's not new, but seems to becomming more common lately. MicroSoft does NOT email updates, so any such e-mails you get are 99 and 44/100% going to be a virus. Never trust emailed updates without verifying that they are legitimate, and from the original source (in this case MicroSoft). >deMIMEd) emails with similar content from several people who I know for a >fact are not on cctalk. It may well be, however, that one of us accidently >was infected by its payload, and that payload is now emailing everyone in >that person's address book. I know a lot of people who use Outlook's "Put >everyone I reply to in my Address Book" feature, which would then easily >result in this effect, particularly for someone who has been on the list for >a while and carried on a few off-list conversations. > >In any case, it seems to be going around. The most recent I received, just >this morning, came under the guise of being a virus >scanner/remover/innoculator for Klez that should be run immediately, "before >infecting [sic] can occur." Riiiiight... > >Patrick From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 16 19:07:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Kurtk7 wrote: > > The 8" disks are not so much a problem, but from what I can tell, there were > > 2.0, 2.5, 2.8, 3.0, 3.25, and 4.0 inch formats and finding even one example > > Also: > 2.9" > 3.9" Who used them; who made them? Do you have a handy chart, Fred? > and, of course, > 5.25" (soft-sector, hard-sector (10 and 16), twiggy) > 3.5" (early ones without shutter, manual shutter, one-way shutter, > floptical) "One-way shutter"? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 16 19:10:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Don Maslin wrote: > This guy has obviously mined the classiccmp mail list for his > address list! I think he just mined Usenet. I get this message about once every ten days on a new account that I've used to post to usenet recently. It's obviously some sort of trojan. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 16 19:57:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes References: <002201c303df$0271ab20$0200000a@p166mmx> Message-ID: <019301c3047b$da96a4a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> There's a guy at the MIT swap meet and the TCF that sold them for $6/ea from 1999-2002, and, hopefully now. I have one here if you need more details. If you really want one and can't go I could get it for you. John A. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 16 20:24:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Stop it! Re: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes In-Reply-To: <200304162022.NAA05626@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030416211748.48cfd4b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> You guys are going to give the poor guy a nervous break down! :-) Joe At 01:22 PM 4/16/03 -0700, Dwight wrote: >>From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" >> >>On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Kurtk7 wrote: >>> The 8" disks are not so much a problem, but from what I can tell, there were >>> 2.0, 2.5, 2.8, 3.0, 3.25, and 4.0 inch formats and finding even one example > >I don't know that 8 inch were all that regular. You have 16 >hard sectored and 32 hard sectored. You even have a hard sectored with >the holes around the outside of the disk instead of the center. >Now, add single/double density and single/double sided. >Dwight > >> >>Also: >>2.9" >>3.9" >> >>and, of course, >>5.25" (soft-sector, hard-sector (10 and 16), twiggy) >>3.5" (early ones without shutter, manual shutter, one-way shutter, >>floptical) From jss at subatomix.com Wed Apr 16 20:30:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: new gifts In-Reply-To: <20030416185028.19396.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030416185028.19396.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030417013155.GA9606@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, April 16, 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > My first 11/750 had an SI9900 on it from the day it was used by the > original owner. My 11/70s also have SI9900s - they are, in their simplest > form, a 5.25"-tall rack-mounted box with cards that talk to hosts (over > MASSBUS for the 11/750 and 11/70; over Qbus or Unibus for "lesser" > machines), and cards that talk to drives (SMD, as far as I've seen). You > can pack several of each kind on their respective sides of the enclosure. > The 11/750 controlled two drives and had a total of three cards (one host, > two drive) > [...] > The 11/70s also came with SI-badged tape drives, in 60" Corporate-Cab- > style cabinets. The previous owner of my SI9900s said he had problems getting it to work between some CDC 9762s and a Unibus PDP-11. He said that it liked to perform a spiral write for him at inopportune moments. I didn't get much more information than that. He was certain that the SI box was at fault. Has anyone, by chance, heard of anything like this before regarding the SI9900? And when it interfaces to Qbus/Unibus, what does it look like to the rest of the system? MSCP? Or maybe it was configurable? -- Jeffrey Sharp From tradde at excite.com Wed Apr 16 20:32:00 2003 From: tradde at excite.com (Tim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: DEC disk packs Message-ID: <20030417012944.66BE71E43E@xmxpita.excite.com> I could use some RL02s myself, but am also in the US. Tim Radde _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From jss at subatomix.com Wed Apr 16 20:43:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030417014523.GB9606@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, April 16, 2003, Don Maslin wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:00:02 +0200 > From: Alexander Thaler > Subject: FWD: Try this security update from Microsoft. > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/X-MSDOWNLOAD which > had a NAME of update797.exe] Thankfully, even when people send a viral attachment to the list, whether intentional or not, demime strips it off for us. We can safely say that the list itself is *not* a suitable vector for viruses. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Apr 16 20:51:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: DEC disk packs. In-Reply-To: References: <000501c30418$cd115fe0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> Message-ID: <20030417015333.GC9606@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, April 16, 2003, Owen Robertson wrote: > If you'll ship to the states, I could *seriously* use all the RL01 packs I > can get my hands on. My PDP-11/34 FINALLY booted RSX-11M the other day, > and I have a whole bunch of RL01s that I really need to back up, plus I > need some for file storage of my own. BTW, I hereby send out a public congrats for getting that going. You've been working on that thing off and on for quite a while! I can't wait to see it boot up the next time I come visit. I know you had several other RL01 packs there; how many of them work? -- Jeffrey Sharp From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 16 20:59:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > 2.9" There were a couple of 2.5" and a couple of 2.9" One was a spiral track, and one (TEC?) was the same as a 720K 3.5" (80 track, etc.) > > 3.9" > Who used them; who made them? Do you have a handy chart, Fred? IBM. They showed sample drives, made by Tabor?, and disks by Brown, before they finally went with 3.5". They showed them a LOT, and released some "engineering samples", but never seem to have put them into a production machine. > > 3.5" (early ones without shutter, manual shutter, one-way shutter, > > floptical) > "One-way shutter"? The original 3.5" had no shutter. The ones that I have are labeled "Shugart". The next ones had a completely manual shutter. YOU opened it, YOU closed it. Then came the "one way", or "pinch" shutter. You opened it manually, and to close it, you squeezed the corner of the disk. A few drives would open the disk for you, but you still needed to pinch the corner to release the shutter to close it. Some current disks still have the arrow that points to where you pinch it. Then came the current style that opens AND closes it for you. The 3.25" is a much more interesting story (Dysan bet the company on it) At one time, the journalists were arguing about 3 v 3.25 v 3.5, as "shirt pocket disks". MOST of them got it wrong. George Morrow had the solution, "Let's just payoff the clothing business to make 5.25" shirt poskets." (Anybody got a copy of "Quotations from Chairman Morrow"?) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 16 21:13:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030416080131.268f8424@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > I gave Don Maslin the 3" drive and disk that I used to have. You > can try to talk him out of them. and I sent him a 3.25" diskette. But I doubt that he would part with any unless he had duplicates. From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Wed Apr 16 21:33:00 2003 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks Message-ID: <200304160502.h3G52Mn0009199@codex.cis.upenn.edu> "Peter Brown" wrote: > It strikes me that an application that enables the information on a cs/80 > drive to be pulled onto a PC, backed-up on another format (e.g. CD ROM) and > then written back to the cs80 drive would be useful - does such an > application already exist? Well if you have an HP9000 computer running HP-UX you can use dd to get a copy of the disk image. > It looks as though the first block on the disk (block 0) contains some drives do, others are hard partitioned (by the drive logic) to 2 or more partitions, so what you are looking at may be just the catalog of the first partition. NetBSD (an Open Source Unix clone) supports the HP 9000 architecture so the kernel source code (available from www.netbsd.org) contains drives to access cs80 mass storage devices over HP-IB. **vp From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Apr 16 21:34:55 2003 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: PCI cards available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030416203909.00a950f8@mail.n.ml.org> norm, what's your addy? I'm interested in both. -John john at boff-net dot dhs dot org (last time i put my addy in a list msg, i got close to 80 spams the next day) At 07:10 PM 4/16/2003, you wrote: >I have two recent pulls, functionality unknown: > >ATTO Express PCI PSC Single channel ultrawide SCSI-3 host adapter, $15 >3Com Fast Etherlink XL PCI 10/100BASE TX, $10 > > prefer paypal, contact me off line > >Thanks Norm ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From Mhooks10 at cs.com Wed Apr 16 21:35:09 2003 From: Mhooks10 at cs.com (Mhooks10@cs.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Fluke pod Message-ID: <4d.2e18f400.2bcf65a6@cs.com> Joe, I was searching for a fluke pod for the 6502 processor and found a newsgroup post of yours. Did you ever find the 8088 pod you were looking for? I have one to trade or sell. Mark Hooks From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 16 21:36:44 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Stop it! Re: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030416211748.48cfd4b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Joe wrote: > You guys are going to give the poor guy a nervous break down! :-) Actually, it's an excellent way to start collecting. It's like filling in a "Lincoln Cent" folder. With half a dozen, you can have an interesting collection, but as the collection matures, there are virtually endless additional different ones to add to the collection. And even a giant collection doesn't need much of any storage space! Anyone else have any Amlyn diskettes? (besides Sam) It's an EARLY 1.2M with 5 disks in a holder and a mechanism for changing disks under software control. The diskettes are usable as 1.2M, but have extra holes for the changing mechanism. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Apr 16 21:38:59 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes References: <3.0.6.16.20030416080131.268f8424@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001c01c30486$ad8e51a0$4f62d6d1@DOMAIN> From: Joe > Zenith used 2" disk in one of their laptops, I think it was called a Mini-Sport. I've found the machines and disk on both E-bay and at hamfest. I used to have two drives and about 13 or 14 disks but gave them away. Mike Haas got them. Yeah, I've got that box in front of me right now. Fuji Film Floppy Disk LT-1, 2 inch, 10-pack (DSDD, 245TPI, 80 tracks) specifically for the Zenith Minisport and compatibles. Each teenee floppy has it's own jewele-t case... classy. I wonder if they'll fit in my Canon Xapshot. I can send out a few disks, send email. - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Apr 16 22:07:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: DEC disk packs. In-Reply-To: <20030417015333.GC9606@subatomix.com> Message-ID: on 4/16/03 8:53 PM, Jeffrey Sharp at jss@subatomix.com wrote: > On Wednesday, April 16, 2003, Owen Robertson wrote: >> If you'll ship to the states, I could *seriously* use all the RL01 packs I >> can get my hands on. My PDP-11/34 FINALLY booted RSX-11M the other day, >> and I have a whole bunch of RL01s that I really need to back up, plus I >> need some for file storage of my own. > > BTW, I hereby send out a public congrats for getting that going. You've > been working on that thing off and on for quite a while! Thank you! I have been working on it off and on for about 1.5 - 2 years. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank everyone on the list (including yourself, Jeff) who helped me get it up and running. I got it booted rather by accident. I was testing out my spare DL11-W, and decided that using the "It might not help but it can't hurt" principle, I would try booting it with the spare DL11-W in place. The next thing I knew I was sitting at an MCR prompt. > I can't wait to see it boot up the next time I come visit. And I can't wait to show it to someone who understands the significance of it! > I know you had several other RL01 packs there; how many of them work? I just counted them today. I have 17 in all. Of those 17, there are only 3 that I know for sure don't work. I've tested out almost all of the other 14, and so far they have all worked. I consider myself very fortunate. I have a bunch of great RSX-11 software that came with my system including a Fortran compiler, Pascal compiler, Z80 and 8048 development systems, Datatrieve and more! -- Owen Robertson From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 16 22:21:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > 3.9" > > Who used them; who made them? Do you have a handy chart, Fred? > > IBM. They showed sample drives, made by Tabor?, and disks by Brown, > before they finally went with 3.5". They showed them a LOT, and released > some "engineering samples", but never seem to have put them into a > production machine. Interesting. Have you got a sample? > The original 3.5" had no shutter. The ones that I have are labeled > "Shugart". I think I have one. > The next ones had a completely manual shutter. YOU opened it, YOU closed > it. Wacky. > Then came the "one way", or "pinch" shutter. You opened it manually, and > to close it, you squeezed the corner of the disk. A few drives would open > the disk for you, but you still needed to pinch the corner to release the > shutter to close it. Some current disks still have the arrow that points > to where you pinch it. Ah. The first 3.5" disk I ever owned was an HP labeled disk with a pinch shutter (I still have it somewhere). > Then came the current style that opens AND closes it for you. Technology marches on. > The 3.25" is a much more interesting story (Dysan bet the company on it) > > > At one time, the journalists were arguing about 3 v 3.25 v 3.5, as "shirt > pocket disks". MOST of them got it wrong. George Morrow had the > solution, "Let's just payoff the clothing business to make 5.25" shirt > poskets." > (Anybody got a copy of "Quotations from Chairman Morrow"?) No, but I'd like a copy. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From charlesmorris at direcway.com Wed Apr 16 22:28:00 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: ASR33 reader Message-ID: <677s9vssjec4mq6eu5r39sa554i34gadkm@4ax.com> OK now the light has finally come on. Thanks to all who provided different pieces of the puzzle. I had assumed that the PDP-8 turned on the reader, read in however many words from the tape reader it wanted, and then shut it off. It never occurred to me that DEC would toggle this line on every character read, let alone hard-wire this function, given the very slow speed of the tape compared to even a PDP-8! I suppose I could have figured this out by looking at the M706 schematic though... So I'll put a relay in my ASR33 but I'm don't think I'll wire the power switch connections, just the reader magnet path. I wouldn't be using the 8/L and TTY without both being turned on anyway, and only an SPST contact will be required. -Charles >From: Ethan Dicks >The KCC IOT (6032) clears the Reader Run flip-flop that drives >the buffer that activates the relay. >When the code running on the PDP-8 tells the console hardware to read a >byte from the console, the normal sequence of IOTs toggles the bit without >any extra programming required. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 16 23:34:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: DEC disk packs. In-Reply-To: from "Owen Robertson" at Apr 16, 2003 02:24:47 PM Message-ID: <200304170432.h3H4W9Vo013567@shell1.aracnet.com> > If you'll ship to the states, I could *seriously* use all the RL01 packs I > can get my hands on. My PDP-11/34 FINALLY booted RSX-11M the other day, and > I have a whole bunch of RL01s that I really need to back up, plus I need > some for file storage of my own. > > -- > Owen Robertson To properly backup a RL01 or RL02 you need the following items: Q-Bus based MicroVAX (I use a MicroVAX 3 in a third party chassis) A fair amount of diskspace on the MicroVAX (I use a pair of shadowed RA73's). An Ethernet controller for the MicroVAX an RLV12 for the MicroVAX With a setup like this you can simply attach a RL01 or RL02 drive to the MicroVAX and backup the diskpacks to disk files. You can then restore the disk files to diskpacks at a later date. You can also use the diskfiles that you create under SIMH. BTW, the ethernet controller is so that you can get the images transferred to a system with a CD-R/W drive, and burn your images to CD-R's! Zane From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 17 00:01:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Looking for docs for the IC86 assembler Message-ID: Does anyone have documentation for an 8086 assembler called IC86? There are some docs on the web but I'm trying to find a full set for someone I'm returning a favor to. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From technoid at 30below.com Thu Apr 17 00:22:01 2003 From: technoid at 30below.com (SYSTEM MANAGER [VAX]) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives References: <3E6D669A.27872.13628216@localhost> Message-ID: <3E9DF33F.4D13563C@30below.com> I agree wholeheartedly. If I'd not bought a set of original tapes for my Data General mini, I'd have a lump of recycleable metal instead of a functioning, neato computer. Now, I bought the tapes fair and sqare, but from a licensing standpoint they should have been either returned to DG or destroyed. They were really hard to find as a large percentage of DG customers complied with the license. The US Forest Service for instance destroyed all of thier media, documentation, etcetera. They also blanked the drives on the machines they sold to scrappers. So far as I know, I'm the only private person on the planet with a full install set for AOS/VS II v3.0 and TCP/IP. Those three tapes are golden. I also have several versions of thier ades/adex diagnostic software which contains microcode for ALL data general MV (Eagle) machines. These tapes are all completely illegal for me to own. Until a couple of years ago the OS and tcpip were available from DG, but they wanted $1300.00 for them. I told DG where to stick it and instead dropped $300.00 on a 9track, controller, and the golden tapes. I doubt any court in the world would convict me for this. Especially in light of DG's aquisition by EMC about a year after I got the machine up and running. I was totally floored that Digital had thier hobbyist license for VMS and layered products. I signed up right away! Data General might still be making computers if they weren't such tightasses. Regards, Jeff Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Yup, version 5 and it won't do MFM and RLL HDs. Can > any justification be made for any restrictions on the > dissemnation of old software such as this which in no way > cuts into the sales of his newest product ? > This is an on-going debate among classic computer > collectors and some formalistic posture as to the useage > of outmoded software is ludicrous. Most of the old > hardware we attempt to get up and running would be > consigned to landfills if we religeously held to that > position. This is not about stealing the bread from some > hardworking programmers table but should be about his > responsibility to the community that enabled him to > continue his type of work. If it's no longer a viable product > and is not supported, all deals are off. This would not > justify someone coming along and marketing his product. > That's a different ball of wax. > > I just checked my version of Spinrite 1.2a. Under > liscensing it says: > > o Consultant License -- > Consultants who wish to repair and revitalize systems > belonging to others may do so by executing our > CONSULTING USE LICENSING AGREEMENT > and paying a $10 fee each time SpinRite is used on > another system. > SpinRite must not, of course, be installed onto those > drives. > > I hope those taking this position have religeously > submitted the $10 whenever they've used it on someone > elses machine. > > Lawrence From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 17 01:01:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Need command codes for Epson Stylus Color 600 Message-ID: Does anyone have documentation for the complete command codes of the Epson Stylus Color 600 printer? The command codes are apparently identical to those of the LQ-850, so a manual for that printer will also do. Any help would be greatly appreciated. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Thu Apr 17 01:06:00 2003 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives References: <3E6D669A.27872.13628216@localhost> <3E9DF33F.4D13563C@30below.com> Message-ID: <010401c304a6$f94cad60$05247452@newhare> G'day Jeff - Be aware that TLC Corporation in Uxbridge MA has the distribution rights to -all- of the DG 32-bit MV software and still actively charges for use of all DG (now EMC) software products and TLC must still pay royalties to EMC. I am trying to work on a hobbyist along with more attractive "commercial use" license arrangement for the 32-bit (and 16-bit) software, but all of it is still covered by license requirements from TLC to EMC. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "SYSTEM MANAGER [VAX]" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 11:20 PM Subject: Re: Piracy was Re: HH drives > I agree wholeheartedly. If I'd not bought a set of original tapes for > my Data General mini, I'd have a lump of recycleable metal instead of a > functioning, neato computer. > > Now, I bought the tapes fair and sqare, but from a licensing standpoint > they should have been either returned to DG or destroyed. They were > really hard to find as a large percentage of DG customers complied with > the license. The US Forest Service for instance destroyed all of thier > media, documentation, etcetera. They also blanked the drives on the > machines they sold to scrappers. > > So far as I know, I'm the only private person on the planet with a full > install set for AOS/VS II v3.0 and TCP/IP. Those three tapes are golden. > I also have several versions of thier ades/adex diagnostic software > which contains microcode for ALL data general MV (Eagle) machines. > > These tapes are all completely illegal for me to own. Until a couple of > years ago the OS and tcpip were available from DG, but they wanted > $1300.00 for them. I told DG where to stick it and instead dropped > $300.00 on a 9track, controller, and the golden tapes. > > I doubt any court in the world would convict me for this. Especially in > light of DG's aquisition by EMC about a year after I got the machine up > and running. > > I was totally floored that Digital had thier hobbyist license for VMS > and layered products. I signed up right away! Data General might still > be making computers if they weren't such tightasses. > > Regards, > > > Jeff > > Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > > Yup, version 5 and it won't do MFM and RLL HDs. Can > > any justification be made for any restrictions on the > > dissemnation of old software such as this which in no way > > cuts into the sales of his newest product ? > > This is an on-going debate among classic computer > > collectors and some formalistic posture as to the useage > > of outmoded software is ludicrous. Most of the old > > hardware we attempt to get up and running would be > > consigned to landfills if we religeously held to that > > position. This is not about stealing the bread from some > > hardworking programmers table but should be about his > > responsibility to the community that enabled him to > > continue his type of work. If it's no longer a viable product > > and is not supported, all deals are off. This would not > > justify someone coming along and marketing his product. > > That's a different ball of wax. > > > > I just checked my version of Spinrite 1.2a. Under > > liscensing it says: > > > > o Consultant License -- > > Consultants who wish to repair and revitalize systems > > belonging to others may do so by executing our > > CONSULTING USE LICENSING AGREEMENT > > and paying a $10 fee each time SpinRite is used on > > another system. > > SpinRite must not, of course, be installed onto those > > drives. > > > > I hope those taking this position have religeously > > submitted the $10 whenever they've used it on someone > > elses machine. > > > > Lawrence From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 17 05:37:01 2003 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: tape stuck in a TK70 Message-ID: <3E9E916D.29375.A8DFB0@localhost> How does one get a tape out of a TK70 when it doesn't want to let it go? Tried powering on / off a few times, hitting the unload button 3 or 4 times in quick succession etc. Wish the TK50 / TK70 QBUS controller cards had some firmware diagnostics that one could access, like retension tape, unload tape, etc... greg From jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Apr 17 05:56:00 2003 From: jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: tape stuck in a TK70 In-Reply-To: <3E9E916D.29375.A8DFB0@localhost> References: <3E9E916D.29375.A8DFB0@localhost> Message-ID: <20030417105714.GA32679@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, Apr 17, 2003 at 11:35:09AM +0100, Greg Elkin wrote: > How does one get a tape out of a TK70 when it doesn't > want to let it go? There is a hole in the PCB on the bottom of the drive right below the casette motor. You can see a Phillips screw through this hole. You can put a screw driver into it and manually rewind the tape with it. (At least this was so on a TK50 I had to do this.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Thu Apr 17 07:25:01 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Kenbak-1 pictures In-Reply-To: <000801c303c4$d8b46440$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: Hi Erik, I'm glad you like the site. I'm currently working on the story how the Kenbak got to my museum. I hope I have it up soon. Greetings Herbert on 4/15/03 11:04 PM, Erik S. Klein at classiccmp@vintage-computer.com wrote: > That is one great machine! The site is very well done also! > > There must be a great story to the acquisition, right? How did you run > across such a rare computer? > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com From big_boy_toddy at yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 07:28:01 2003 From: big_boy_toddy at yahoo.com (Todd Nathan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: FS/A: Northern Telecom (NT) DisplayPhone Plus NT6K90AC Message-ID: <20030417122551.55577.qmail@web40507.mail.yahoo.com> I have for sale a few Northern Telecom (yes, NT, not Nortel) Model NT6K90AC Displayphone, Date of Mfr. Nov 15 1984 (yeps, that makes them almost 19 years old, way ahead of their time). If you are interested, and know what this is for, do let me know. I think 50 USD for each is fairly reasonable. They are in very, very good working condition taken out of service a number of years ago, stored and finally sold off recently. I picked them up at a government auction, and they are being sold as-is. I know little to nothing about them, and am by no means an expert, you are more than I am...PS. I hope this is ok to offer these here for sale. I looked at the listing, and it seems this kind of device was WAY ahead of its time, so much so that NT didn't do much with them, but they are prized for collectors. I hope I can find a nice home for them.Best wishesTodd Nathan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. From big_boy_toddy at yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 07:30:00 2003 From: big_boy_toddy at yahoo.com (Todd Nathan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: (photos) of Northern Telecom (NT) DisplayPhone Plus NT6K90AC Message-ID: <20030417122744.21272.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com> Oh, and I also thought maybe some photos of the unitswould help folks see and realize what they are and enjoythe 'old stuff' and also the great shape these are in...http://sdo.dyndns.org/auctions/images/nt6k90/Thanks for being patient with me, this is my first, andhopefully last post to the group. These lovely classiccomputing devices need to find a friendly home.Todd Nathan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. From rborsuk at colourfull.com Thu Apr 17 07:42:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Need command codes for Epson Stylus Color 600 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam, I have the manual for the 600. I can scan in the back section that has the codes if you need. Send to me off list. Rob On Thursday, April 17, 2003, at 01:57 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Does anyone have documentation for the complete command codes of the > Epson > Stylus Color 600 printer? > > The command codes are apparently identical to those of the LQ-850, so a > manual for that printer will also do. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From rborsuk at colourfull.com Thu Apr 17 07:54:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: List posting..Maybe I missed something In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <51C5B1E0-70D3-11D7-A6D6-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Hi All, I have to ask this. I subscribe to both lists. Whenever I post it always goes to both lists, how can I change this? Thanks Rob (the cross-list infiltrator) Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Thu Apr 17 07:55:52 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks Message-ID: Hi Joe, Bill, Tony, Sorry for the delay in replying - the 'proper' job takes precedence unfortunately! Joe - bit of a typo on my part the 9133 appears to be CS/80. Can you explain the differences between CS/80 and SS/80? I seem to remember that CS stands for Command Set and SS stands for Sub Set but other than my lack of knowledge is complete. I have an HP 1000 based system (the 5451c) that runs 7900 and 7906 drives - are these CS/80 based too? It would be useful if I could back the software up on these. I think that the HP ISA card just allowed you to put DOS partitions on HPIB disks not read partitions in other formats. How can I tell if the drive is from an HP 9000 200 or an HP 9000 300 series system? Do you still have your HP LIF foramt description document? - any chance of a copy? Bill - Thanks for clarifying the HP 88500A harware capabilities Tony - thanks for the pointers with the LIF format. I took your byte tables and overlaid them with the data blocks that I am pulling off the disk and they agree very well (all of the record position / record length values seem to be correct). I have a few questions. The volumme label / descriptor block, bytes 16-19, returns a directory length of 1 but when I directory the disk I get around 280 filenames. A directory of one block would only support 32 files - where am I going wrong? In the tracks per surface, Number of surfaces, Records per track fields I get all zeros - does this just mean that the drive does not report them? What is the LIF file structure for text files? Thanks for your replies Cheers Peter Brown _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile From jss at subatomix.com Thu Apr 17 09:05:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: List posting..Maybe I missed something In-Reply-To: <51C5B1E0-70D3-11D7-A6D6-00050287688D@colourfull.com> References: <51C5B1E0-70D3-11D7-A6D6-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <20030417140714.GA12347@subatomix.com> On Thursday, April 17, 2003, Robert Borsuk wrote: > I subscribe to both lists. That is most likely an error. You'll get duplicate copies of every on-topic message posted to the list. > Whenever I post it always goes to both lists, how can I change this? You can't. They aren't separate lists. Think of them as two message streams coming out of the same list. Cctech is delayed but only sends you on-topic posts. This is a feature. Our mail alias file contains lines similar to these: cctalk: classiccmp cctech: classiccmp classiccmp: "|post-to cctalk cctech" -- Jeffrey Sharp From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 09:17:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: SI9900 (was Re: new gifts) In-Reply-To: <20030417013155.GA9606@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030417141518.98227.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Wednesday, April 16, 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > My first 11/750 had an SI9900 on it from the day it was used by the > > original owner. My 11/70s also have SI9900s... MASSBUS... > > The previous owner of my SI9900s said he had problems getting it to work > between some CDC 9762s and a Unibus PDP-11. He said that it liked to > perform a spiral write for him at inopportune moments. Hmm... how nasty. I've never used the Unibus interface. I have what I _think_ are a couple of Qbus interfaces (spares from an old SI FS guy), but I've never even installed one to test. > Has anyone, by chance, heard of anything like this before regarding the > SI9900? I have no such experience, but we had Fuji drives, not CDC drives, and we weren't using a Unibus interface, so YMMV. > And when it interfaces to Qbus/Unibus, what does it look like to the rest > of the system? MSCP? Or maybe it was configurable? I doubt it was MSCP unless that was done on the Unibus/Qbus card itself. We used the VMS DRDRIVER on the 11/750 (and its equivalent under SysV and 4BSD, IIRC). One perpetual problem we had was that our big drive was a Fuji Eagle, which does not equate to any DEC drive capacity. Our choices were to ignore massive amounts of storage, or patch the driver. We were dependent on SI for upgrade after upgrade. It would have been a real nightmare, except that our system drive was a Fuji 160MB disk (with the translucent lid) that appeared to be two real RM03s to the VAX. No patches required. As far as the VAX thought, there were a pair of 9762s out there on the end of the cable. I think a Fuji Super Eagle matched up closely enough with something real that you didn't have to patch the driver if you had one of those, but we didn't, so I'm not certain of that. This is a "problem" that MSCP relieves you of (that and manual bad block replacement). The SI9900 would have been *the* way to go for our 11/750 if it had been MSCP. As it was, we never bought any disks beyond the original two spindles (both of which I now have in storage). When we went to expand the machine, we kept its MASSBUS boot drive and added a UDA50 + RA81s (they weren't cheap, but they were physically smaller than the SI9900 + drives, and they were self-contained). If I ever get any SI9900-compatible SMD drives (not SMD-E, AFAIK) in the 8" range, I might drag a controller home from the farm and stick it on a MicroVAX to see how it behaves. I just don't want to be humping around a bunch of Fuji Eagles. They look nice exactly where they are. :-) -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 09:22:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <20030416224229.64806.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030417142018.13557.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- steven wrote: > Hmm, try saying that 3 times real fast... > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com Please post the source, if you find one. I have an Atari plotter and a Commodore plotter (model 1520) that use the same mechanism and the same pens. What I could _really_ use is a source of the gear that fits directly on the X and Y motor shafts. I have tried going to local RC car and model train shops, but they don't carry gears. This thread has come up before, but I still don't know how to sit down and accurately determine the physical characteristics of these gears to the satsifaction of a mail-order gear vendor. I can mic the shaft, I can count teeth, but the rest eludes me. I did buy a handful of plot engines from a surplus house. 80% had fractured gears. :-( -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 17 09:55:00 2003 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: tape stuck in a TK70 In-Reply-To: <20030417105714.GA32679@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <3E9E916D.29375.A8DFB0@localhost> Message-ID: <3E9ECDED.13076.1953381@localhost> > There is a hole in the PCB on the bottom of the drive right below the > casette motor. You can see a Phillips screw through this hole. You can > put a screw driver into it and manually rewind the tape with it. (At > least this was so on a TK50 I had to do this.) -- > 'tis the same on the TK70 tape drive, I've manually rewound the tape & got it out of the drive now. thanks, greg From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 17 10:19:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: List posting..Maybe I missed something In-Reply-To: <51C5B1E0-70D3-11D7-A6D6-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Robert Borsuk wrote: > I have to ask this. I subscribe to both lists. Whenever I post it > always goes to both lists, how can I change this? What e-mail address are you sending to? The only way you could be sending messages to both lists is if you are putting cctalk and cctech in your To: field. Sometimes messages come across the list that have both cctech and cctalk in the reply-to: field. Make sure when you reply you select one or the other. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Apr 17 10:21:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens Message-ID: Go back to the hobby shop and flip through some RC magazines to locate gear vendors (or just Google for them). Then send out some emails describing what you need. -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 9:20 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens What I could _really_ use is a source of the gear that fits directly on the X and Y motor shafts. I have tried going to local RC car and model train shops, but they don't carry gears. From nampcjr at yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 11:27:00 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Software stores? Message-ID: <20030417162521.79441.qmail@web20709.mail.yahoo.com> Hello all Can anyone direct me to some decent Classic computer software vendors or stores. I have found a few over the months that sold a lot of "New-old stock" which is interesting, but have been unable to find my "Agent USA" for IBM yet. (I used to own it). Maybe someone here has it? Brian The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. From rborsuk at colourfull.com Thu Apr 17 11:47:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Looking for Pascal Microengine In-Reply-To: <3E9C8A7D.F060FFAE@compsys.to> Message-ID: Hi All, I'm looking for a Pascal Microengine. If anyone has one that they would be willing to part with ($) or if you know of someone who doesn't have room for one anymore, could you send them my way. It will have a good home porting code and reliving an old project. Thanks Rob Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From jss at subatomix.com Thu Apr 17 11:49:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: List posting..Maybe I missed something In-Reply-To: References: <51C5B1E0-70D3-11D7-A6D6-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <20030417165130.GB12347@subatomix.com> On Thursday, April 17, 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Robert Borsuk wrote: > > I have to ask this. I subscribe to both lists. Whenever I post it always > > goes to both lists, how can I change this? > > The only way you could be sending messages to both lists is if you are > putting cctalk and cctech in your To: field. Wrong. No matter if you send it to cctalk or cctech (or even classiccmp), it *always* goes to both lists. There is no way for people to send to just one of them. Please read my previous post in this thread. If you put both cctalk and cctech in the To: field, you're sending a duplicate post; it goes to both lists twice. > Sometimes messages come across the list that have both cctech and cctalk > in the reply-to: field. Make sure when you reply you select one or the > other. Actually, it doesn't matter to which address you reply. It automatically goes to both lists. This is one more sign that I really need to dust off the new FAQ and finish it. :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 17 12:00:02 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: List posting..Maybe I missed something In-Reply-To: <20030417165130.GB12347@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Thursday, April 17, 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Robert Borsuk wrote: > > > I have to ask this. I subscribe to both lists. Whenever I post it always > > > goes to both lists, how can I change this? > > > > The only way you could be sending messages to both lists is if you are > > putting cctalk and cctech in your To: field. > > Wrong. No matter if you send it to cctalk or cctech (or even classiccmp), > it *always* goes to both lists. There is no way for people to send to just > one of them. Please read my previous post in this thread. > > If you put both cctalk and cctech in the To: field, you're sending a > duplicate post; it goes to both lists twice. Exactly, which is what I am saying, and which may explain why Robert's messages are going to both lists. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Apr 17 12:04:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Software stores? References: <20030417162521.79441.qmail@web20709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00ca01c30502$36ebc380$0400fea9@game> I am interested in places that have older software Win3.x or DOS titles in box with full manuals for my collection. I have had some success on doing this on the Low End Mac swap email list for my older 68k machines but havnt seen anything like it for PC based stuff. Anybody know of any places (besides ebay) let me know. "Agent USA" is that a game? If so are you looking for the abandonwear download or the original in box etc? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Heise" To: Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:25 PM Subject: Classic Computer Software stores? > Hello all Can anyone direct me to some decent Classic computer software vendors or stores. I have found a few over the months that sold a lot of "New-old stock" which is interesting, but have been unable to find my "Agent USA" for IBM yet. (I used to own it). Maybe someone here has it? Brian > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 17 12:41:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030417133951.51a71178@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Peter, At 12:52 PM 4/17/03 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Joe, Bill, Tony, > >Sorry for the delay in replying - the 'proper' job takes precedence >unfortunately! > >Joe - bit of a typo on my part the 9133 appears to be CS/80. I doubt it. The 9133/9134 A, B, D and H are all SS-80. That's why I asked which model you had. SS-80 in a hard drive is unusually. Can you >explain the differences between CS/80 and SS/80? I seem to remember that CS >stands for Command Set and SS stands for Sub Set but other than my lack of >knowledge is complete. I don't know the details except that SS-80 is supposed to be a sub-set of the CS-80 protocall. I had a manual with the instruction set for CS-80 but I gave it to Steve Robertson for their use in writing a CS-80 driver for HIPLOS for the HP 1000s. I do still have a document titled "HP Flexible Disk Drive Command Set" that describes what I assume to be SS-80 altough it doesn't specificly say so. I've never seen the docs for Amigo protocall but I think that a couple of list members have them. Frank McConnel comes to mind. > >I have an HP 1000 based system (the 5451c) I've been meaning to E-mail you and find out more about your HP 1000. Can you give me more details about it? BTW yesterday I just found another one buried in storage that I'd forgotten about. It's a M series. I also picked up the cable that you wanted. I can ship it with the manual. More on that by direct E-mail. that runs 7900 and 7906 drives - >are these CS/80 based too? It would be useful if I could back the software >up on these. I don't have any info on the 7900 so I can't tell you anything about it. But the 7906 is an Amigo/MAC interface. I don't know if the Amigo portion is the same as that used for the older floppy disk drives but I assume that it is or that it's at least close. I'm not sure what all is required to support SS-80/CS-80 on the HP 1000s but it definitely needs more than the Amigo/MAC inteface. > >I think that the HP ISA card just allowed you to put DOS partitions on HPIB >disks not read partitions in other formats. I knew it put MS_DOS format on the drive but I thought that it might have some lower level commands that would let you write a driver to read HP formats. What you describe, MS-DOS format - no HP format support, is the same as what the HP 110 Portable and Portable Plus do with the HP 9114 disk drive. > >How can I tell if the drive is from an HP 9000 200 or an HP 9000 300 series >system? Unless you just happen to know where it came from, the only what that I know of is to connect it to a 9000 200/300 and boot it and do a CAT. I thought that you might know the history of the drive. Do you still have your HP LIF foramt description document? - any >chance of a copy? I don't think I have it any more. I gave it to someone that was researching the LIF formats and trying to come up with a way to use the HP LIFUTILS in a predictable manner. Joe > >Bill - Thanks for clarifying the HP 88500A harware capabilities > >Tony - thanks for the pointers with the LIF format. > >I took your byte tables and overlaid them with the data blocks that I am >pulling off the disk and they agree very well (all of the record position / >record length values seem to be correct). > >I have a few questions. > >The volumme label / descriptor block, bytes 16-19, returns a directory >length of 1 but when I directory the disk I get around 280 filenames. A >directory of one block would only support 32 files - where am I going wrong? > >In the tracks per surface, Number of surfaces, Records per track fields I >get all zeros - does this just mean that the drive does not report them? > >What is the LIF file structure for text files? > >Thanks for your replies > >Cheers > >Peter Brown > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 17 12:41:46 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Cranking up a HP 7914. Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030417131338.51a75ec8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At the urging on one of the other local collectors and against my better judgement, I went back and picked up the HP 7914 disk drive that was part of the HP 1000 system that I recently acquired. I think this is going to be a waste of time since I've never found one of these old drives that still worked. But I'm going to try this one and see what happens. Anyone have any suggestions about anything that I should check or do before I try to spin this drive up? Joe From Technoid at 30below.com Thu Apr 17 13:27:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:05 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <20030417142018.13557.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <024701c3050e$fbbe0040$6300a8c0@benchbox> B&C Computervisions in California not only has a LOT of plotters, but knows quite well about the gear problem. IIRC, the plotters are common in mechanism between Atari, Commodore, and Radio Shack. I think they were made by Alps? They differ somewhat in case and interface, but otherwise parts interchange readily. Anawho, we are probably talking about this plotter which mechanism is the same as that of the Atari 1020. It is a 40-column plotter which has four pens, black, red, blue and green esconced in a revolving cylinder not unlike that of a 4shot Derringer pistol and which prints on a 4" or so roll of register paper. The pens, paper, and parts for the plotter are all available new at B&C. If we are talking about the same plotter, then off you go. Otherwise.... errr... disregard this message and the pedant behind it's creation. ;-) Regards, jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:20 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens --- steven wrote: > Hmm, try saying that 3 times real fast... > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com Please post the source, if you find one. I have an Atari plotter and a Commodore plotter (model 1520) that use the same mechanism and the same pens. What I could _really_ use is a source of the gear that fits directly on the X and Y motor shafts. I have tried going to local RC car and model train shops, but they don't carry gears. This thread has come up before, but I still don't know how to sit down and accurately determine the physical characteristics of these gears to the satsifaction of a mail-order gear vendor. I can mic the shaft, I can count teeth, but the rest eludes me. I did buy a handful of plot engines from a surplus house. 80% had fractured gears. :-( -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From big_boy_toddy at yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 14:11:01 2003 From: big_boy_toddy at yahoo.com (Todd Nathan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: FS/A: (photos) Northern Telecom DisplayPhone In-Reply-To: <20030417170001.10416.57380.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030417190900.45196.qmail@web40507.mail.yahoo.com> http://sdo.dyndns.org/auctions/images/displayphoneGoing to try again, seems formatting is off.Make an offer.ThanksTodd Nathan (remove dotski and put ".") The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 17 14:44:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: What is a Smartnet Arnet card? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030417154238.1107ab70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found this this morning. Full length 16 ISAcard for a PC. Marked "Arnet Smartport" "Made in USA" and "Copyright 1985 Arnet Corporation". It has a daughterboard marked "Arnet Smart Plus 4". The main board has two copper shielded 34 pin ribbon cables that extend out the back panel. Snybody know what this is? Joe From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 15:06:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <024701c3050e$fbbe0040$6300a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <20030417200403.29076.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Jeffrey S. Worley" wrote: > B&C Computervisions in California not only has a LOT of plotters, but > knows quite well about the gear problem. I see... they do mention having Atari 1020 plotters with and without known good gears. I've dropped them a line about a handful of just the gears. > IIRC, the plotters are common in mechanism between Atari, Commodore, and > Radio Shack. I think they were made by Alps? They differ somewhat in > case and interface, but otherwise parts interchange readily. AFAIK, the plotter engine is abolutely identical. I used to buy my pens and paper at Radio Shack. I still have an unopened box of paper and a tube of unopened pens. Hope they still write. :-) > Anawho, we are probably talking about this plotter which mechanism is > the same as that of the Atari 1020. It is a 40-column plotter which has > four pens, black, red, blue and green esconced in a revolving cylinder > not unlike that of a 4shot Derringer pistol and which prints on a 4" or > so roll of register paper. Bingo. I wrote a few programs for the Commodore 1520 about 16 years ago. Unfortunately for emulation purposes, the C= ROM code is embedded in a 6502-family microcontroller, so any emulation has to be by inspection, not by, um, "borrowing". > The pens, paper, and parts for the plotter are all available new at B&C. Thanks for the tip. Found 'em. I found a parts list at http://www.myatari.com/bc800hw.txt but the gears are not listed seperately, just some other parts like the pen carriage. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From martinm at allwest.net Thu Apr 17 15:21:00 2003 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: What is a Smartnet Arnet card? References: <3.0.6.16.20030417154238.1107ab70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E9F0C23.4090100@allwest.net> Joe wrote: > Found this this morning. Full length 16 ISAcard for a PC. Marked "Arnet Smartport" "Made in USA" and "Copyright 1985 Arnet Corporation". It has a daughterboard marked "Arnet Smart Plus 4". The main board has two copper shielded 34 pin ribbon cables that extend out the back panel. Snybody know what this is? > > Joe This is a serial port board. The ribbon cables go to breakout boxes that contain the serial port connectors. I think that Digi acquired Arnet. Martin From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Apr 17 17:28:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens" (Apr 17, 7:20) References: <20030417142018.13557.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10304172325.ZM16455@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 17, 7:20, Ethan Dicks wrote: > What I could _really_ use is a source of the gear that fits directly > on the X and Y motor shafts. I have tried going to local RC car and > model train shops, but they don't carry gears. This thread has come > up before, but I still don't know how to sit down and accurately > determine the physical characteristics of these gears to the > satsifaction of a mail-order gear vendor. I can mic the shaft, I > can count teeth, but the rest eludes me. There are two common ways of specifying gears. One is by diametral pitch (DP), where you specify, in effect, the distance between teeth (actually it's done by dividing the number of teeth by the pitch diameter). The other, mostly used for metric gears, is by "module", and is the reciprocal of DP, ie you divide the pitch diameter by the number of teeth. Gears that mesh will have the same DP (and, of course the same module). The trick is to find the pitch diameter -- that's the "effective" diameter of the gear wheel. If you're using DP, for normal gears the amount of the tooth above and below the pitch diameter, called the addendum and dedendum, is standardised, and it conveniently works out such that if you can accurately measure the outside diameter (OD), and you can count the number of teeth (t), you can easily work out the DP without actually measuring the pitch diameter directly: OD = (t+2) / DP therefore DP = (t+2) / OD and if you do need to know the pitch diameter, then since DP = t/p it's just p = t/DP. There's just one caveat: those formulae only apply to gears with a 20 degree pressure angle, and with more than 15 or so teeth (otherwise you need to make some corrections as the angles get more extreme). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Technoid at 30below.com Thu Apr 17 17:36:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <20030417200403.29076.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02c301c30531$cc01eb00$6300a8c0@benchbox> I used to have the 1020 model and wrote some cool stuff for it. Here's a nice idea for a project. I did this one about 15years ago, but still have the warez I coded. 3feet plastic fiber optic cable (shielded). 1ea fiber optic detector (is a vpot) 1ea 9pin joystick port connector. Wire the output of the IRD to the potentiometer port on your Atari/commie/whatever. Strip the end of the cable to expose about 1/8th inch. Wrap electrical tape around the end of the cable til' it is the same diameter as the pens. Remove a pen from the plotter and substitute the fiber for it. The exposed end of the fiber should protrude a little through the metal spring return for the pens. The rest should be obvious, but put a porno magazine 1/2 page into the plotter and shine a BRIGHT light at the page. Run my program. It stepps the plotter, samples the returned light for that spot and assigns a greyscale to it, posts that pixel to the screen, stepps the potter, samples, etc til' the image in in memory. Works pretty well. I used an emitter/detector set from Radio shock to do this back in 85' or 86'. It does not pick up text well (low rez destination screen). Greens and blues don't register well which is one of the reasons for the BRIGHT light. I used a 100watt bulb in a flexible desk lamp. The Radio shack pens are compatible with this mechanism, but they are a little thicker at the end which makes them a tight fit in the Atari version. Still work though. If your pens dry out in storage, boil them for a few minutes in a pot of water. That should rejuvenate them. Regards, Jeff AFAIK, the plotter engine is abolutely identical. I used to buy my pens and paper at Radio Shack. I still have an unopened box of paper and a tube of unopened pens. Hope they still write. :-) > Anawho, we are probably talking about this plotter which mechanism is > the same as that of the Atari 1020. It is a 40-column plotter which > has four pens, black, red, blue and green esconced in a revolving > cylinder not unlike that of a 4shot Derringer pistol and which prints > on a 4" or so roll of register paper. Bingo. I wrote a few programs for the Commodore 1520 about 16 years ago. Unfortunately for emulation purposes, the C= ROM code is embedded in a 6502-family microcontroller, so any emulation has to be by inspection, not by, um, "borrowing". From nampcjr at yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 18:17:01 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Software stores? Message-ID: <20030417231524.80234.qmail@web20712.mail.yahoo.com> Well, one of the "stores" I found was an online one. Granted, its not the GREATEST place as far as quantity and selection, but they didnt have what I was looking for either.http://shop.store.yahoo.com/classicsoftware/clasadgam.html Another place I have been looking, and even posted a place on the "wait list" is called the "Ye Olde Infocom Shop". Its a trader who has a nice selection of items...for trade and for sale as well....and NOT all just Infocom stuff...http://www.if-legends.org/~yois/index.php Im looking for the boxed version of Agent USA, but if someone accidentally slipped an image to me, I would not cry either...but my goal is to have the original....There is a remake out there on the abandonware scene....but I hate to tell them...it is just that...a remake....no game of 1.6mb fit on one 5.25" DSDD floppy :) Brian The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 17 18:55:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks In-Reply-To: from "Peter Brown" at Apr 17, 3 12:52:14 pm Message-ID: > Tony - thanks for the pointers with the LIF format. I am glad it was of help... > > I took your byte tables and overlaid them with the data blocks that I am > pulling off the disk and they agree very well (all of the record position / > record length values seem to be correct). > > I have a few questions. > > The volumme label / descriptor block, bytes 16-19, returns a directory > length of 1 but when I directory the disk I get around 280 filenames. A > directory of one block would only support 32 files - where am I going wrong? Actually, a single block will hold 8 filenames... As to where the problem is, I don't know. Maybe this is one of the differences between various LIF formats. The HP71 HPIL manuals says 'Bytes 16 through 19 indicate the number of records in the directory, which is fixed whren the medium is initialised, but varies from medium to medium' There must be some way for the machine to find out the directory size for 2 reasons -- firstly to determine whether there's space in the directory for another file, and secondly to determine the start block of the first file on the disk (== first block after the directory). > In the tracks per surface, Number of surfaces, Records per track fields I > get all zeros - does this just mean that the drive does not report them? Probaly. There's no reason for a user program to ever need this information, all it needs is the total size of the volume (and I think there's a CS/80 command for that). > > What is the LIF file structure for text files? The easiest way to answer this is for me to post the source of my program to turn such files into unix-style text files (streams of bytes with newlines to mark the end of lines). Here it is. It's GPLed, so feel free to hack about with it. ------ /* hptext.c -- a filter to process HP text (LIF1) files */ /* 2000 A. R. Duell, and placed under the GPL */ /* An HP text file, also known as a 'LIF file type 1' consists of a number of records. Each record starts with a 2 byte length (high byte first), and contains that number of bytes. A record length of 0xFFFF indicates the end of the file. A record length of 0xFFFE indicates a null record. Note that if the record length is odd, then an extra dummy byte is placed at the end of the record. Thus the total length (header+data) of any record is even. See HP71 Software IDS volume 1, section 11.2.8.1 for further details This filter decodes such files into a stream-of-bytes, with the ends of records being marked by \n characters. */ #include #define END_LEN 0xFFFF #define NULL_LEN 0xFFFE unsigned int record_length(void) { /* Get 2 bytes from standard input, and return the record length that they specify. Return 0xFFFF if end-of-file occurs */ unsigned char data[2]; /* Buffer to store the 2 bytes in */ if(fread(data,sizeof(char),2,stdin)!=2) { /* This is the end of the physical file, so return an end-of-file marker */ return(END_LEN); } else { /* Return the record length */ return((data[0]<<8)+data[1]); } } void copy_chars(int length) { /* copy length characters from standard input to standard output */ int c; /* Character to copy */ int i; /* counter */ for(i=0; i from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 17, 3 07:20:18 am Message-ID: > Please post the source, if you find one. I have an Atari plotter > and a Commodore plotter (model 1520) that use the same mechanism > and the same pens. There seem to be 2 types of mechanism -- the 4" (or so) one used in the Atari, Commodore 1520, Radio Shack CGP115, Sharp MZ730 (I think -- it's one of the MZ700s), etc, and the 2" (or so) one used with the Sharp PC1500 and TRS-80 PC2. Apart from the obvious changes for the different width (frame and platten roller) they are identical. I believe they're made by Alps. I have the exploded diagrams and parts lists for the 4" one, but the motor gears are not shown as a separate part :-( > > What I could _really_ use is a source of the gear that fits directly Couldn't we all!. This is a major problem with these plotters -- the plastic seems to have been the wrong type, or the hole was made too small (thus stressing the plastic too much when the gear was fitted) or something. I think _all_ my plotters (a 1520, a CGP115, another CGP115-like thing with the PSU internal, a couple of Sharp units for the PC1500) have at least one broken gear. > on the X and Y motor shafts. I have tried going to local RC car and > model train shops, but they don't carry gears. This thread has come > up before, but I still don't know how to sit down and accurately > determine the physical characteristics of these gears to the > satsifaction of a mail-order gear vendor. I can mic the shaft, I > can count teeth, but the rest eludes me. I will have to look up the exact procedure (the standard rules-of-thumb may not apply in this case). It shouldn't be too hard to figure out... Maybe then I should try and make either a brass replacement (which would outlast the rest of the machine), or a lantern pinion type of thing (which would have the advantage of not needing a special milling cutter to make, but which strictly would need different shape teeth on the gear it meshes with. That probably doesn't matter though). -tony From jwstephens at cox.net Thu Apr 17 18:59:00 2003 From: jwstephens at cox.net (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Cranking up a HP 7914. References: <3.0.6.16.20030417131338.51a75ec8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E9F3E30.29BB0864@cox.net> check out how to clean the ways. I am assuming that this is a single platter type top or front load with a 2.5 5 or 10 meg capacity. If you can get the schematics, or do some tracing, one thing that most of these will do is spin up w/o moving the heads. You can get this to happen by either physically pulling a driver connector, or setting a switch to be sure the heads don't get energized. I would get the drive to be able to spin up first w/o head load and be sure that it is happy (finding a test manual would help a whole lot here). Then be sure you get the media you plan to use cleaned. If you have a fixed disk, you probably have a bigger problem than if you have removable, since you can get in and clean the cartridge media and inspect it much easier than a fixed platter in a drive. Use lint free cleaning swabs and isopropyl alcohol for cleaning. I doubt there are any media houses left in existance, but if there are, you could send the media to them for a clean job and inspection. Clean the heads off and inspect them as well before any power up. Then all you need is luck and a quick hand on the power if you crash. these drives can survive a crash with some luck if you are quick enough and don't fry the head. Of course the media will be lost, but that is better than the whole unit. Jim Joe wrote: > At the urging on one of the other local collectors and against my better judgement, I went back and picked up the HP 7914 disk drive that was part of the HP 1000 system that I recently acquired. I think this is going to be a waste of time since I've never found one of these old drives that still worked. But I'm going to try this one and see what happens. Anyone have any suggestions about anything that I should check or do before I try to spin this drive up? > > Joe From dlormand at aztecfreenet.org Thu Apr 17 19:35:00 2003 From: dlormand at aztecfreenet.org (DAVID L. ORMAND) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification Message-ID: <200304180031.h3I0VNP6010323@aztec2.aztecfreenet.org> I have been told (by an IT professional, take that for what it's worth) that 5.25" 360K drives have the latch handle on the left side of the drive, and the 1.2M drives have it on the right side. All the drives I have in view right now, this is true. Anybody have a notion of whether this is absolutely true in fact? It sure would make sorting drives easier than trying them out on an old peecee! (Which actually needs to be done anyways, to test for functionality.) From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Apr 17 19:56:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: <200304180031.h3I0VNP6010323@aztec2.aztecfreenet.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, DAVID L. ORMAND wrote: > I have been told (by an IT professional, take that for what it's worth) > that 5.25" 360K drives have the latch handle on the left side of the > drive, and the 1.2M drives have it on the right side. All the drives > I have in view right now, this is true. > Anybody have a notion of whether this is absolutely true in fact? > It sure would make sorting drives easier than trying them out on an > old peecee! (Which actually needs to be done anyways, to test for > functionality.) NO F WAY You should know better than to talk to an IT professional. The Teac 55b (360K) and 55G (1.2M) have the same door/latch The Shugart/Matsushita 455 (360K) and 475 (1.2M) have the same door/latch How many more examples are needed? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 17 20:11:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Delay Line Memory(?) ICs Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030417210910.5067295e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found an odd looking board today that I THINK might be some kind of delay line memory. I'm trying to find out more about the ICs used on it but I'm not finding much. Can anyone id these ICs? MC1662L, MC1043P, MC1010P and MC1040P? They are all 14 pin DIPs expect for the 1662, it is a 16 pin DIP. All of them are dated 1973 to 1976. They are definitely not sync chips or PICS! The board itself has seven glass or plastic cylinders about 3 1/2" long and 1/4" in diameter. Each cylinder is wound with a twisted pair of fine wires. Besides the beginning and ending points there are six additional taps in the windings. (A total of 8 connections per wire per cylinder). There are four 1662s next to each cylinder and the white wire of the pair is coupled to them. The red pair of the pair connects to a post that goes through the board. On the back of the the board is a daughter board that is seated on the posts. It has the 1040s, 1043 and 1010s on it. This board also has a row of four ICs for each cylinder. There are two 1043s and an two 1040s in each row and they apppear to connect to the posts that connect back to the red leads on the cylinders. The four 1010s are mounted on the bottom of the board between the rows of ICs and seem to be pre-drivers or some such. There's also a row of pre-drivers or something like that on the main board. They use MC1668L s and there are seven of them. These boards came out of a LARGE test system built by Tektronix. (The same one that I pulled the DEC PDP-11/35 out of.) But someone else pulled these and I'm not sure what unit that came from. The main board and outside panel are marked "2941 Delay" and the daugherboard is marked "Delay Register". Any ideas what these boards are? Can anyone positively id the ICs? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 17 20:14:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: <200304180031.h3I0VNP6010323@aztec2.aztecfreenet.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030417211224.50670344@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> What about the ones that use a push button or pull latch located in the center? So much for "professionals". Joe At 05:31 PM 4/17/03 -0700, you wrote: >I have been told (by an IT professional, take that for what it's worth) >that 5.25" 360K drives have the latch handle on the left side of the >drive, and the 1.2M drives have it on the right side. All the drives >I have in view right now, this is true. > >Anybody have a notion of whether this is absolutely true in fact? >It sure would make sorting drives easier than trying them out on an >old peecee! (Which actually needs to be done anyways, to test for >functionality.) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 17 20:20:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: <200304180031.h3I0VNP6010323@aztec2.aztecfreenet.org> from "DAVID L. ORMAND" at Apr 17, 3 05:31:23 pm Message-ID: > I have been told (by an IT professional, take that for what it's worth) I think I'd better not post my views of the technical knowledge (or lack of it) of such people to a public forum... > that 5.25" 360K drives have the latch handle on the left side of the > drive, and the 1.2M drives have it on the right side. All the drives > I have in view right now, this is true. Can I assume the set of drives you are looking at is non-empty? :-) The PC I am typing this on has an original IBM 1.2M drive. The handle is offset towards the left side... > > Anybody have a notion of whether this is absolutely true in fact? It most certainly is not true. In many cases the 1.2M and 360K drives were built on the same chassis, and therefore had the handle on the same side. -tony From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Apr 17 20:33:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Was HP 7914 - Priam 15050 & 3350s Message-ID: <16f.1d5a3171.2bd0af6a@aol.com> Actually IIRC the HP 7914 has a Priam 15050 single platter(?) hard drive with a 14 inch platter. The HP 7912 used the similar Priam 6650 drive. These were used in many early computers from the late 70s to early 80s. Early Xerox 8010 Stars had them so there may be some info on the drives on Al Kossow's Site. IIRC these auto head park (with a loud clunk) when powered off. There may be drive &/or head locks too. I am looking for information on starting up some Priam 3350s, 8 inch HD drives. I have an Intel 330 (6 slot Multibus 1) and an Intel 380 (14 Slot Multibus 1 with separate drive cabinet) that I want to fire up before I part with them. Both these use Priam 3350s. Also looking for ideas on how to start them safely. Last time I used them was about 1989. I did park the heads and locked the drives for the intervening years. Paxton Astoria, OR From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Apr 17 20:46:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > that 5.25" 360K drives have the latch handle on the left side of the > drive, and the 1.2M drives have it on the right side. All the drives > I have in view right now, this is true. No, but on all the machines it this room right now (BOTH of them), the 360K drives have black faceplates and red LEDs, but the 1.2M drives have beige faceplates. :-) Machines with 1.2M drives have more keys on the keyboard than machines with 360K drives. :-) Have you tried checking the motor speed to tell them apart? From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Apr 17 20:57:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <20030417142018.13557.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030416224229.64806.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030417215359.06385ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > but I still don't know how to sit down and accurately > determine the physical characteristics of these gears Look up gears/gearing in Machinery's Handbook for a definition of all the defining parameters for gears. At 07:20 AM 4/17/03 -0700, you wrote: >--- steven wrote: > > Hmm, try saying that 3 times real fast... > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > > http://search.yahoo.com > >Please post the source, if you find one. I have an Atari plotter >and a Commodore plotter (model 1520) that use the same mechanism >and the same pens. > >What I could _really_ use is a source of the gear that fits directly >on the X and Y motor shafts. I have tried going to local RC car and >model train shops, but they don't carry gears. This thread has come >up before, but I still don't know how to sit down and accurately >determine the physical characteristics of these gears to the >satsifaction of a mail-order gear vendor. I can mic the shaft, I >can count teeth, but the rest eludes me. > >I did buy a handful of plot engines from a surplus house. 80% >had fractured gears. :-( > >-ethan >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >http://search.yahoo.com From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Apr 17 21:20:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Delay Line Memory(?) ICs In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030417210910.5067295e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > I found an odd looking board today that I THINK might be some kind of > delay line memory. I'm trying to find out more about the ICs used on it > but I'm not finding much. Can anyone id these ICs? MC1662L, MC1043P, > MC1010P and MC1040P? They are all 14 pin DIPs expect for the 1662, it is a > 16 pin DIP. All of them are dated 1973 to 1976. They are definitely not > sync chips or PICS! MECL II and MECL III. They are all small glue - gates, latches, and I think a 3 to 8 line decoder. MECL III (the 1600 series) is damn fast - almost as fast as the more familiar 100K ECL. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Apr 17 22:19:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: What is a Smartnet Arnet card? References: <3.0.6.16.20030417154238.1107ab70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3E9F0C23.4090100@allwest.net> Message-ID: <00dd01c30558$ec2b7dc0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Marshall" To: Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: Re: What is a Smartnet Arnet card? > Joe wrote: > > Found this this morning. Full length 16 ISAcard for a PC. Marked "Arnet Smartport" "Made in USA" and "Copyright 1985 Arnet Corporation". It has a daughterboard marked "Arnet Smart Plus 4". The main board has two copper shielded 34 pin ribbon cables that extend out the back panel. Snybody know what this is? > > > > Joe > > This is a serial port board. The ribbon cables go to breakout boxes > that contain the serial port connectors. I think that Digi acquired > Arnet. > > Martin The Arnet "Smart" cards had on-card microprocessor and buffering for better throughput and lower main cpu utilization. The other "non-smart" cards were more like a plain old serial card on a PC, differing mostly in that they had more than 2 ports. I have a 4-port Arnet card (non-smart) that has a (large) ISA card, a ribbon cable, and an external mounting plate with a "breakout box" (built for a max of 8 ports), with 4 connectors loaded. I used it with SCO UNIX and it worked fine, actually better than the SCO UNIX did :-) It is very difficult to develop C code with a compiler that dumps core every time I try to generate a listing file...(dang M$ compiler!). Digi DID acquire Arnet some time back. Last time I looked, Digi still had some drivers and documentation for the Arnet stuff on their web site. Stuart Johnson From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Apr 18 00:31:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <20030417142018.13557.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030417142018.13557.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- steven wrote: > > > Hmm, try saying that 3 times real fast... > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > > http://search.yahoo.com > > Please post the source, if you find one. I have an Atari plotter and a > Commodore plotter (model 1520) that use the same mechanism and the same > pens. I think I'm gonna be kicking myself for passing up on a literal pile of these for the next 10 years. There was a RadioShack outlet store in Houston with 100s of packages of these that I could have had for $0.05-$0.10/ea or maybe $5-10 for the whole lot. I never got around to picking them up, and the store seems to be gone now. As of 2-3 years or so ago they still had all kinds of TRS80 parts and supplies. I imagine the stock was dumped when they closed the store. At least I picked up their stock of data cassettes and cassette interface cables... > What I could _really_ use is a source of the gear that fits directly on > the X and Y motor shafts. I have tried going to local RC car and model > train shops, but they don't carry gears. This thread has come up > before, but I still don't know how to sit down and accurately determine > the physical characteristics of these gears to the satsifaction of a > mail-order gear vendor. I can mic the shaft, I can count teeth, but the > rest eludes me. > > I did buy a handful of plot engines from a surplus house. 80% had > fractured gears. :-( I wonder if there are enough of us with these plotters to justify having a batch of replacement gears made somewhere? -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Apr 18 01:05:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: DEC newbie (was need caddy for RRD-42DA CD-ROM drive) In-Reply-To: <200304152236.h3FMaBbT030993@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200304152236.h3FMaBbT030993@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Well, that's a relief. Can you point me to a source for these common > > caddies? > > Try places that carry old PC junk. This type of CD-ROM was used > primarily in 1-4x CD-ROM's that were seen in PC's (the fastest I've seen > is an 8x that I put in my PDP-11/73). Of course you can also find this > style CD-ROM in DEC, Sun, and probably other manufacturer's equipment (I > think Apple had one drive of this style). SGI used Toshiba drives that used these caddies for their 4D Deskside systems. Apple had a number of drives that used these caddies. I have an external Apple cdrom that uses them, and it seems like the MacTV systems I've seen also used them. > Actually your best place to look might be eBay, I'd imagine they're > pretty easy to find there. > > Just be glad you don't have one of the drives that use the 'pincer' > caddies! Just how uncommon are the RRD40 caddies? I managed to obtain some caddies for my RRD40, so I think I've been rather lucky. I remember reading not too long ago that the things seemed to be made of unobtanium. [Note to the folks who are considering emailing me to ask if I will give away a caddy: You couldn't pry my RRD40 caddies from my cold dead fingers.] -Toth From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Apr 18 06:15:01 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Stop it! Re: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and other odd sizes In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030416211748.48cfd4b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030418120952.03294008@pop.freeserve.net> At 19:23 16/04/2003 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >Anyone else have any Amlyn diskettes? (besides Sam) It's an EARLY 1.2M >with 5 disks in a holder and a mechanism for changing disks under software >control. The diskettes are usable as 1.2M, but have extra holes for the >changing mechanism. I remember back in my early BBC days, when the floppy drives were often single-sided, being able to buy "flippable discs" - they had extra holes in them so you could insert the disc into the drive either way up, and use both sides! You could also buy some natty little punches to allow you to modify stock floppies in the same way. Rob From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Apr 18 06:25:01 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Need command codes for Epson Stylus Color 600 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030418121750.07c92ec0@pop.freeserve.net> At 22:57 16/04/2003 -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >Does anyone have documentation for the complete command codes of the Epson >Stylus Color 600 printer? > >The command codes are apparently identical to those of the LQ-850, so a >manual for that printer will also do. > >Any help would be greatly appreciated. I believe it's the standard Epson ESC-P codes you need. The LQ-850 is definitely this. Full technical manual available here: http://www.epson.co.uk/cgi-bin/epson-uk/dirwrap.cgi?path=support%2Fmanuals%2Fpdf%2FESCP&sort=by_name&Submit=Go&template=manuals&case=lower (If that doesn't wrap/work, the individual files are:) http://www.epson.co.uk/support/manuals/pdf/ESCP/Part_1.pdf http://www.epson.co.uk/support/manuals/pdf/ESCP/Part_2.pdf http://www.epson.co.uk/support/manuals/pdf/ESCP/Part_3-Command_Compatibility_Table.pdf http://www.epson.co.uk/support/manuals/pdf/ESCP/Part_4-Printer_Feature_Summary.pdf http://www.epson.co.uk/support/manuals/pdf/ESCP/Part_5-Appendix.pdf http://www.epson.co.uk/support/manuals/pdf/ESCP/Part_5B-Appendix.pdf http://www.epson.co.uk/support/manuals/pdf/ESCP/Part_6-Glossary.pdf Regards Rob. From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Apr 18 06:40:00 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: What is a Smartnet Arnet card? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030417154238.1107ab70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030418122707.034731e0@pop.freeserve.net> At 15:42 17/04/2003 +0000, you wrote: > Found this this morning. Full length 16 ISAcard for a PC. Marked > "Arnet Smartport" "Made in USA" and "Copyright 1985 Arnet Corporation". > It has a daughterboard marked "Arnet Smart Plus 4". The main board has > two copper shielded 34 pin ribbon cables that extend out the back panel. > Snybody know what this is? > > Joe It's a serial expansion unit. The ribbon cables connect to a "black box" with 4 (or 8) DB25 connectors on it. Lots of jumpers on the back to swap pins about for DCE/DTE/combinations, but otherwise no electronics in there. The unit is a 4 port, and you add the expansion card to make it up to eight. The Smart port has intelligence on it, to take the load off the machine. They did a Multiport version which was just multiple plain old ports that you could address as serial ports at whatever IO addresses you configured the card at. The Smart port would need drivers installing. We used to use a lot of them in days when we ran multi-user operating systems on 8086/286/386 servers! There is a large box full of cards, and even more of the external boxes at the office. Manuals too. I've also got the Smartport SCO-Xenix drivers, and the diagnostic disc in front of me here (were in the same box as the wyse setup discs I posted earlier). If you want copies, etc., let me know! If you want an external box, I can do that too, for the cost of shipping. Regards Rob. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 18 07:20:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: What is a Smartnet Arnet card? In-Reply-To: <00dd01c30558$ec2b7dc0$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <3.0.6.16.20030417154238.1107ab70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3E9F0C23.4090100@allwest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030418081524.429f430e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:16 PM 4/17/03 -0500, Staurt wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Martin Marshall" >To: >Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 3:18 PM >Subject: Re: What is a Smartnet Arnet card? > > >> Joe wrote: >> > Found this this morning. Full length 16 ISAcard for a PC. Marked >"Arnet Smartport" "Made in USA" and "Copyright 1985 Arnet Corporation". It >has a daughterboard marked "Arnet Smart Plus 4". The main board has two >copper shielded 34 pin ribbon cables that extend out the back panel. Snybody >know what this is? >> > >> > Joe >> >> This is a serial port board. The ribbon cables go to breakout boxes >> that contain the serial port connectors. I think that Digi acquired >> Arnet. >> >> Martin > > >The Arnet "Smart" cards had on-card microprocessor and buffering for better >throughput and lower main cpu utilization. The other "non-smart" cards were >more like a plain old serial card on a PC, differing mostly in that they had >more than 2 ports. > >I have a 4-port Arnet card (non-smart) Well do you want a smart one? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 18 07:22:03 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Was HP 7914 - Priam 15050 & 3350s In-Reply-To: <16f.1d5a3171.2bd0af6a@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030418081235.429fac0c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:31 PM 4/17/03 EDT, you wrote: >Actually IIRC the HP 7914 has a Priam 15050 single platter(?) hard drive with >a 14 inch platter. The HP 7912 used the similar Priam 6650 drive. > >These were used in many early computers from the late 70s to early 80s. Early >Xerox 8010 Stars had them so there may be some info on the drives on Al >Kossow's Site. > >IIRC these auto head park (with a loud clunk) when powered off. There may be >drive &/or head locks too. There are locks on them. But they weren't locked! That's one reason I probably never find a good one. I think it's a long shot that this one is useable. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 18 07:23:48 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: What is a Smartnet Arnet card? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030418122707.034731e0@pop.freeserve.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030417154238.1107ab70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030418081825.3dc7b672@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:35 PM 4/18/03 +0100, Rob wrote: >At 15:42 17/04/2003 +0000, you wrote: > >> Found this this morning. Full length 16 ISAcard for a PC. Marked >> "Arnet Smartport" "Made in USA" and "Copyright 1985 Arnet Corporation". >> It has a daughterboard marked "Arnet Smart Plus 4". The main board has >> two copper shielded 34 pin ribbon cables that extend out the back panel. >> Snybody know what this is? >> >> Joe > >It's a serial expansion unit. The ribbon cables connect to a "black box" >with 4 (or 8) DB25 connectors on it. Lots of jumpers on the back to swap >pins about for DCE/DTE/combinations, but otherwise no electronics in there. > >The unit is a 4 port, and you add the expansion card to make it up to eight. > >The Smart port has intelligence on it, to take the load off the >machine. They did a Multiport version which was just multiple plain old >ports that you could address as serial ports at whatever IO addresses you >configured the card at. The Smart port would need drivers installing. > >We used to use a lot of them in days when we ran multi-user operating >systems on 8086/286/386 servers! > >There is a large box full of cards, and even more of the external boxes at >the office. Manuals too. > >I've also got the Smartport SCO-Xenix drivers, and the diagnostic disc in >front of me here (were in the same box as the wyse setup discs I posted >earlier). > >If you want copies, etc., let me know! If you want an external box, I can >do that too, for the cost of shipping. > >Regards > >Rob. > Thanks for the offer but I don't need the card. Do you want it? FWIW this was in an old Compaq 386 DeskPro (386 20 I think). Joe From cb at mythtech.net Fri Apr 18 10:20:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Last call for Printronix Message-ID: Last call if anyone wants my Printronix or parts from it. The printer supposedly has a fried transformer in the power supply. I know it does not power up. I have the complete printer, rolling stand, and at least one paper basket. Its located in NJ (07450), I'm not willing to ship the whole thing, but I am willing to hold on to it for a pickup, or to strip any wanted parts from it and ship those. It goes in the dumpster Monday afternoon if someone doesn't speak up first. -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 18 10:24:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030418152012.28860.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tothwolf wrote: > > I did buy a handful of plot engines from a surplus house. 80% had > > fractured gears. :-( > > I wonder if there are enough of us with these plotters to justify having > a batch of replacement gears made somewhere? I doubt if we'd have to have gears made-to-order. It's mostly a question of measuring the critical dimensions in a manner that is meaningful to a gear maker. I was hoping to find a way to order these from someone's catalog, then make an offer to buy a quantity bag and distribute them to folks on a variety of lists including the CBM Hacker's list and here. I don't mind buying q. 100 and being a gear-go-to-guy, but I still don't know how to take a physical gear and sit there with a handful of measuring tools to get _all_ of the critical dimensions (number of teeth and shaft diameter are trivial...) -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 18 10:28:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030417215359.06385ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030418152317.29182.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mail List wrote: > > but I still don't know how to sit down and accurately > > determine the physical characteristics of these gears > > > Look up gears/gearing in Machinery's Handbook for a definition > of all the defining parameters for gears. That's a nice tip, but could you go one step further and give the complete title of a book I could go to the Library Reference section and ask for? I'm not being a smartass; I'm just fairly ignorant about the mechanical aspects of moving parts. Now, if you'd said "look up *foo* in the CRC", I'd just go down to my bookshelf and pull out my copy. I have no such things for mechanical engineering, just EE and a tid bit of chemistry. Thanks, -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 18 10:31:16 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030418152417.85385.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > that 5.25" 360K drives have the latch handle on the left side of the > > drive, and the 1.2M drives have it on the right side. All the drives > > I have in view right now, this is true. > Machines with 1.2M drives have more keys on the keyboard than machines > with 360K drives. :-) Machines with 1.2M drives weigh less than machines with 360K drives? -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Fri Apr 18 10:44:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification Message-ID: >Machines with 1.2M drives weigh less than machines with 360K drives? No, no that doesn't work... my Leading Edge machines have 360K drives, and they weigh less than my IBM AT's with 1.2M drives. :-) -chris From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Apr 18 10:46:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <20030418152317.29182.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030417215359.06385ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030418114047.05e841a0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Ethan, re: Machinery's Handbook That was the complete title. Check out these links ... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Machinery%27s+Handbook&btnG=Google+Search http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&query2=Machinery%27s+Handbook&search_option=1&minPrice=&maxPrice=&category0=&exclude=&st=&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&maxRecordsPerPage=50&worldlocation=ebayavail®ion=0&available_to=1&located_in=1&ebaycurr=&submit=+Search+&siteid=0&query=Machinery%27s+Handbook&shortcut=&ebaytag1code_tmp=&ebaytag1_tmp=&ebaytag1code=&ebaytag1=&ebaytag12=ebayreg&from=R6 At 08:23 AM 4/18/03 -0700, you wrote: >--- Mail List wrote: > > > but I still don't know how to sit down and accurately > > > determine the physical characteristics of these gears > > > > > > Look up gears/gearing in Machinery's Handbook for a definition > > of all the defining parameters for gears. > >That's a nice tip, but could you go one step further and give >the complete title of a book I could go to the Library Reference >section and ask for? I'm not being a smartass; I'm just fairly >ignorant about the mechanical aspects of moving parts. > >Now, if you'd said "look up *foo* in the CRC", I'd just go down >to my bookshelf and pull out my copy. I have no such things >for mechanical engineering, just EE and a tid bit of chemistry. > >Thanks, > >-ethan >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >http://search.yahoo.com From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Apr 18 10:49:01 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Last call for Printronix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030418104634.0380ec30@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hi Chris, What model is the printronix? --tom At 11:17 AM 4/18/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Last call if anyone wants my Printronix or parts from it. The printer >supposedly has a fried transformer in the power supply. I know it does >not power up. > >I have the complete printer, rolling stand, and at least one paper basket. > >Its located in NJ (07450), I'm not willing to ship the whole thing, but I >am willing to hold on to it for a pickup, or to strip any wanted parts >from it and ship those. > >It goes in the dumpster Monday afternoon if someone doesn't speak up >first. > >-chris > From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Apr 18 10:54:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Was: TRS-80 PC-2 Now: Macinery's Handbook In-Reply-To: <20030418152317.29182.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030418152317.29182.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > That's a nice tip, but could you go one step further and give > the complete title of a book I could go to the Library Reference Y'all cain't do wifout yer Masheenry's Handbook, Clem! Hits got it all! Vide: http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=166743258 for just one recent example. www.abebooks.com lists more than a hundred, from 1919 to the present, from about $10 to over $300 (hope springs eternal!) It truly is a nice volume to have on your reference shelf, just for times like this. Kinda like the Merck Index but for machinists. About 1300 pages, indexed and usually thumb-niched like a dictionary. At the library, look up: Oberg and Jones, Machinery's Handbook. But as cheap as they are (you most likely will find one locally, or at Dayton this year) it's not a bad thing to have, even if you need it once a year. Cheers John From cb at mythtech.net Fri Apr 18 10:59:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Last call for Printronix Message-ID: Oh, sorry... its a Printronix 300 >What model is the printronix? > > >At 11:17 AM 4/18/2003 -0400, you wrote: >>Last call if anyone wants my Printronix or parts from it. The printer >>supposedly has a fried transformer in the power supply. I know it does >>not power up. >> >>I have the complete printer, rolling stand, and at least one paper basket. >> >>Its located in NJ (07450), I'm not willing to ship the whole thing, but I >>am willing to hold on to it for a pickup, or to strip any wanted parts >>from it and ship those. >> >>It goes in the dumpster Monday afternoon if someone doesn't speak up >>first. -chris From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Apr 18 11:01:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <20030418152012.28860.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030418152012.28860.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I was hoping to find a way to order these from someone's catalog, then > make an offer to buy a quantity bag and distribute them to folks on > a variety of lists including the CBM Hacker's list and here. I don't After you've identified the proper replacement gear, try the folks at McMaster Carr Supply Company. www.mcmaster.com They have a huge selection of off-the-shelf gearing, and are happy to sell you one piece or one box-car full. They have a big, very cool catalog, and you'll find it in every machine shop and facilities department on the planet, with good reason. Cheers John From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Fri Apr 18 11:06:00 2003 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Looking for : schematics and technical manual for LA30 or DECwriter I References: <3E96E20D.4080302@aconit.org> <00fd01c30045$51cc1ae0$05247452@newhare> Message-ID: <00ee01c305c3$ecb5b9c0$05247452@newhare> The LA-30 manual has been scan (along with a few other items) and sent to Al Kossow for inclusion on his exellent site. Thanks Al. To those wanting to immediately get the source .tif file may anonymous ftp to www.SimuLogics.com with account name anonymous@simulogics.com, no password (just hit the key), then "dir public/DEC" and "ls" to see what items are available. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Ray" To: Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:13 AM Subject: Re: Looking for : schematics and technical manual for LA30 or DECwriter I > LA-30 maintenance manual will be scanned in the next week or so and sent to > Al K for inclusion in his exellent site... > > Bruce > > Bruce Ray > Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. > bkr@WildHareComputers.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hans B Pufal" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 9:41 AM > Subject: Looking for : schematics and technical manual for LA30 or DECwriter > I > > > > Subject line says it all, we have an LA30 that we would like to get > > working. It operates in local mode but we cannot get it to talk current > > loop to our PDP-9. > > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > > -- hbp From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Apr 18 11:14:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: was: TRS-80 PC-2 Now: Gears In-Reply-To: <20030418152317.29182.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030418152317.29182.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Damn - forgot this until just after I hit 'send' on the last message: the Central Hive of all things gear-related is at Boston Gear, www.bostongear.com They include some very nice and detailed tutorials to help you find the part you're looking for. Cheers John From Technoid at 30below.com Fri Apr 18 11:33:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <20030418152317.29182.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000101c305c8$3e1c5c70$6300a8c0@benchbox> Why is cannibalizing the new printers not an option? If you can replace the whole mech with a new one for $19.00 or so, why not do that? Is it that the gears once installed are damages by de-installing them? I can see how that could be. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 11:23 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens --- Mail List wrote: > > but I still don't know how to sit down and accurately > > determine the physical characteristics of these gears > > > Look up gears/gearing in Machinery's Handbook for a definition > of all the defining parameters for gears. That's a nice tip, but could you go one step further and give the complete title of a book I could go to the Library Reference section and ask for? I'm not being a smartass; I'm just fairly ignorant about the mechanical aspects of moving parts. Now, if you'd said "look up *foo* in the CRC", I'd just go down to my bookshelf and pull out my copy. I have no such things for mechanical engineering, just EE and a tid bit of chemistry. Thanks, -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 18 11:37:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: DEC newbie (was need caddy for RRD-42DA CD-ROM drive) In-Reply-To: References: <200304152236.h3FMaBbT030993@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Just how uncommon are the RRD40 caddies? I managed to obtain some caddies >for my RRD40, so I think I've been rather lucky. I remember reading not >too long ago that the things seemed to be made of unobtanium. They're darn hard to find. The real shock was when I found one in a brand new computer room that I *KNOW* for a fact doesn't have any RRD40 drives in it, and neither did the computer room that the equipment was moved from, or the one before that one! I still wonder where on earth that caddie came from. A year or so ago I managed to find a bare drive from the original manufacturer, still in the box, and with a caddie! Now that was a shock! Those two cases are in addition to the RRD40 and Caddie that I bought from Jim Willing a few years ago. >[Note to the folks who are considering emailing me to ask if I will give >away a caddy: You couldn't pry my RRD40 caddies from my cold dead >fingers.] Ditto. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Apr 18 11:43:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally Produced by Tim Shoppa) Message-ID: <3EA02A85.2C83F6DC@compsys.to> The last two times I posted this, another person contacted me either for help or to request the CDs. This will be the last time for about 6 months unless more people reply. In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 that Tim Shoppa originally produced: I am in the middle of finishing a second (very small) batch of CDs and could easily add a few additional copies. I will be making all copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ Since not everyone has both a high speed internet connection and a CD burner, I thought it would be helpful to make them available. If you have both requirements and are using Windows 98 SE / Nero Burning, I can help with the details if you don't know how to burn a CD from an "Image File". I have even been able to produce a label for each CD that is close to the original label from Tim Shoppa, although since they were scanned (THANK YOU FOR THE HELP), they are not perfect. They are available at $ 5 / $ 9 / $ 12 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. In addition, I understand that Memorex Black CD-Rs have a longer shelf life and are available at Business Depot. If anyone wants those instead, add $ 1 for each CD that you are requesting. Thus those amounts are $ 6 / $ 11 / $ 15 Please contact me directly for my snail mail address. I picked up some Memorex Black CD-R blanks and started on the copies for those who have already requested that a Black CD-R be used. Please include your mailing address!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In general, I will regard any funds you send as a gift so that if anyone really can't afford the CDs, please state why that is so. Outside of the US, probably about $ 2 should be sufficient for extra postage. All amounts are in US dollars. Please ask if you are not in the US. No point in converting twice. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 18 12:02:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <000101c305c8$3e1c5c70$6300a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <20030418170018.58088.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Jeffrey S. Worley" wrote: > Why is cannibalizing the new printers not an option? It is, but not a long-term one. > If you can replace the whole mech with a new one for $19.00 or so... $4 when I got them. > ... why not do that? Because most of the mechs had bad gears, too. So far, my total count of working gears is very close (+/- 1) to the number I need to keep the plotters I own working. At some point, I will not have enough gears. As it is, I spent a wad of money to buy a pile of spare parts with about 3 good gears. :-( > Is it that the gears once installed are damages by de-installing them? > I can see how that could be. No, but plotters that once had good gears, now have bad gears. They fail. Perhaps it's thermal expansion problems, perhaps it's stress, but these gears do not last. The material is so thin at the bottom of the splines that they develop a longitudinal crack along them. As other have said, perhaps it's a poor choice of materials or perhaps it's a poor match of shaft diameter to gear I.D., but for whatever reason, it's a common problem to this plot engine. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Apr 18 12:37:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: Was HP 7914 - Priam 15050 & 3350s Message-ID: In a message dated 4/18/03 5:21:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > > There are locks on them. But they weren't locked! That's one reason I > probably never find a good one. I think it's a long shot that this one is > useable. > Will your surplus place let you plug it in before you take one? This might be the best choice now that you know how to deal with the locks. If you have it home, I would just make sure it is level, warm and plug it in. Hmm, that's right, you live in Florida you don't have to make sure it is warm. I am going to wait till summer before trying to start the 3350s I have. Good luck. I consider these Priams to be fairly sturdy drives. Paxton Astoria, OR From cb at mythtech.net Fri Apr 18 13:24:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: PlusTek Spectra 1200 and 6000 scanners Message-ID: Anyone know if the interface card for the PlusTek Spectra 1200 and 6000 sheet feed scanners is a SCSI card? I have both of these scanners. On the back is a DB25 Male port. No power input, so it pulls power from the connector. The manuals I have just indicate that it uses an "Interface Card" that comes with the scanner. Naturally I don't have the card or the cable. I'm curious if it is a SCSI card as many older scanners used. I'm looking to possibly bring one back to life to try using for archiving of old manuals (the HP All-In-One I had set aside for the purpose I just found out is a Print/Copy/Fax, no scanner). If it uses a special custom card, either A: does anyone have one that they want to give me (and the cable if it is something special as well), or B: does anyone want the scanners? I don't know if either works as they were given to me as is years ago and have never been used. I do have the manuals for them, as well as one driver disk (but the drivers appear to still be downloadable from PlusTek's web site). -chris From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Apr 18 13:54:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:06 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CD caddies (was Re: DEC newbie) Message-ID: <200304181851.h3IIpVFP015745@io.crash.com> > Just how uncommon are the RRD40 caddies? I managed to obtain > some caddies for my RRD40, so I think I've been rather lucky. > I remember reading not too long ago that the things seemed to > be made of unobtanium. I recall back in the 1990-91 timeframe when VMS was first being distributed on CD as well as tape, we got these plastic cases that held the CDs, and each CD was in an RRD40 pincer caddy. Which was fine for my lab because we actually had an RRD40 on hand... I'm not sure if the CONDIST started early enough to be delivered the same way. I used to have one of these VMS 5.x CD kits around here, but it seems determined to remain hidden so I can't confirm. --S. From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Apr 18 14:21:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CD caddies (was Re: DEC newbie) In-Reply-To: <200304181851.h3IIpVFP015745@io.crash.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Steve Jones wrote: > > Just how uncommon are the RRD40 caddies? I managed to obtain > > some caddies for my RRD40, so I think I've been rather lucky. > > I remember reading not too long ago that the things seemed to > > be made of unobtanium. > > I recall back in the 1990-91 timeframe when VMS was first being > distributed on CD as well as tape, we got these plastic cases > that held the CDs, and each CD was in an RRD40 pincer caddy. > Which was fine for my lab because we actually had an RRD40 > on hand... I'm not sure if the CONDIST started early enough > to be delivered the same way. > > I used to have one of these VMS 5.x CD kits around here, but > it seems determined to remain hidden so I can't confirm. > > --S. > That reminded me, and I looked in the bottom of a desk drawer here: I have what must be a RRD40 caddy in a digital vinyl booklet like thing. Its has a 1990's vintage Ultrix online documentation CD inside Free for shipping costs... Peter Wallace From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 18 14:32:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Now tape drive was Re: Cranking up a HP 7914. In-Reply-To: <3E9F3E30.29BB0864@cox.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030417131338.51a75ec8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030418153042.10c7655c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:52 PM 4/17/03 -0700, you wrote: >check out how to clean the ways. I am assuming that this is a single platter type >top or front load with a 2.5 5 or 10 meg capacity. No this is a fixed disk with ~132 Mb capacity and a built in tape drive. > >If you can get the schematics, or do some tracing, one thing that most of these will do is >spin up w/o moving the heads. You can get this to happen by either physically pulling >a driver connector, or setting a switch to be sure the heads don't get energized. That's a good idea. I'd been thinking of doing something like that. > >I would get the drive to be able to spin up first w/o head load and be sure that it >is happy (finding a test manual would help a whole lot here). > >Then be sure you get the media you plan to use cleaned. If you have a fixed disk, >you probably have a bigger problem than if you have removable, since you can >get in and clean the cartridge media and inspect it much easier than a fixed platter >in a drive. > >Use lint free cleaning swabs and isopropyl alcohol for cleaning. I doubt there >are any media houses left in existance, but if there are, you could send the media >to them for a clean job and inspection. I wish! I don't have the couple of grand that they'd want to do a job like that. I'm on my own here. > >Clean the heads off and inspect them as well before any power up. > >Then all you need is luck and a quick hand on the power if you crash. these >drives can survive a crash with some luck if you are quick enough and don't fry >the head. Of course the media will be lost, but that is better than the whole >unit. I don't care about the media, or the drive either for that matter. I'd like to get it fired up ONE time just long enough to copy the OS to newer HP-IB drive. Anybody know if these use the same tapes as the HP 9144/7942/7946? Also if the 9144/7942/7946s can read the 7914 tapes? The 7914 (and the 7942/7946) has the ability to copy directly from the hard drive to the tape drive without being connected to a computer. (The 9144 is a stand alone tape drive. The 7914/7942 and 7946 are all combination tape drives and hard drives.) I thought it might be better to make a backup tape directly on the 7914 rather than spending what be left of the 7914's limited life trying to get to boot on the 1000 and figuring out the passwords, etc and the commands to copy the drive contents to another drive. Joe From aek at spies.com Fri Apr 18 14:45:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: message from comp.sys.cdc Message-ID: <200304181944.h3IJiPfR004841@spies.com> Just saw this on comp.sys.cdc Unfortunately, they may have waited too long for help :-< Greetings: Our computer museum, The Cybertheque Museum, has been preserving important CDC computers and their software, manuals and spare parts since 1971; we are currently in a major funding crisis and there is jeopardy of the irretrievable loss (lien sale) of the following machines (and more): 1. CDC 160 S/N 18 (handwired at Chippewa, overhanging desktop, rising punch) 2. CDC 160A S/N 270 3. CDC 606A S/N 9 (non-corporate switches) 4. CDC 8092 Teleprogrammer S/N 24 5. Librascope General Precision LGP-30 vacuum tube computer S/N 254 6. Various IBM card unit record peripherals for the 160. 7. CDC 1604 Console (with typewriter and punch) 8. CDC 3200 Console and Typewriter Console and various 3200 frames. 9. CDC 6400 cabinet 10. large amount of 1604, 3000, 6000, 7000, Control Corp, DDI, and peripheral logic cards 11. The entire FOCUS program library for the 160/160A 12. Much of the software library for the 1604 13. Much object and source for 6000 SCOPE 14. Experimental Operating Systems from Roseville and Rochester for the 160A/8090 15. 1700 Software 16. The entire software library for the Roseville TFC/MTC 32bit mini- computer. And much much more. Since a crisis precipitated by the unreasonable real-estate tax and redevelopment policies of Anoka County, MN in 1991, we were denied our musuem building and forced to store the above systems in storage unit warehousing in the Twin Cities area. The rental agreement was reasonable at the time but in the ensuing years the warehouse company decided to breach the agreement and forced us to pay ever increasing rent until it has become a major burden. The intent was to ready new facilities in Northern Minnesota and move the collection; the high rent at the warehouses and the high cost of transportation has delayed the relocation effort. We must pay $900.00 per month for the storage; we are attempting to raise money to cover some past rent to avoid a lien sale on April 23. We are open to discussions to salvage the collection before the sale and/or to partner with others and receive donations to support the ongoing rental until relocation is possible. Please help us avoid the sad loss of such important artifacts. Michael Grigoni founder and president Cybertheque Museum From aek at spies.com Fri Apr 18 14:47:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Grigoni's email adr Message-ID: <200304181945.h3IJj7Mb004920@spies.com> msg@wate.org From aek at spies.com Fri Apr 18 14:52:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: corrected adr Message-ID: <200304181950.h3IJovVV005573@spies.com> msg@waste.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 18 14:55:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Was HP 7914 - Priam 15050 & 3350s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030418155311.3d57c8e4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:35 PM 4/18/03 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/18/03 5:21:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > > >> >> There are locks on them. But they weren't locked! That's one reason I >> probably never find a good one. I think it's a long shot that this one is >> useable. >> > >Will your surplus place let you plug it in before you take one? They would have IF I could have dragged it 200 feet to an outlet. :-/ I drug it 20 feet to the jeep and gave them $10 for it. That was a LOT easier! This might be >the best choice now that you know how to deal with the locks. > >If you have it home, I would just make sure it is level, warm and plug it in. >Hmm, that's right, you live in Florida you don't have to make sure it is >warm. Maybe if I can pack it in ice I can make it mearly warm. > >I am going to wait till summer before trying to start the 3350s I have. > >Good luck. Thanks. I think I'll need it. Joe I consider these Priams to be fairly sturdy drives. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 18 15:01:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: message from comp.sys.cdc In-Reply-To: <200304181944.h3IJiPfR004841@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030418155904.3ba70a48@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> There's not much time left to prevent this sale. If the sale does happen I hope some of the collectors on this list will be there to buy this stuff and keep it out of the hands of the gold scrappers and garbage men. I expect this stuff will sell for 1/10s of pennys on the dollars. Joe At 12:44 PM 4/18/03 -0700, Al wrote: >Just saw this on comp.sys.cdc > >Unfortunately, they may have waited too long for help :-< > >Greetings: > >Our computer museum, The Cybertheque Museum, has been preserving >important CDC computers and their software, manuals and spare >parts since 1971; we are currently in a major funding crisis and >there is jeopardy of the irretrievable loss (lien sale) of the >following machines (and more): > > 1. CDC 160 S/N 18 (handwired at Chippewa, overhanging desktop, > rising punch) > 2. CDC 160A S/N 270 > 3. CDC 606A S/N 9 (non-corporate switches) > 4. CDC 8092 Teleprogrammer S/N 24 > 5. Librascope General Precision LGP-30 vacuum tube computer S/N 254 > 6. Various IBM card unit record peripherals for the 160. > 7. CDC 1604 Console (with typewriter and punch) > 8. CDC 3200 Console and Typewriter Console and various 3200 frames. > 9. CDC 6400 cabinet > 10. large amount of 1604, 3000, 6000, 7000, Control Corp, DDI, > and peripheral logic cards > 11. The entire FOCUS program library for the 160/160A > 12. Much of the software library for the 1604 > 13. Much object and source for 6000 SCOPE > 14. Experimental Operating Systems from Roseville and Rochester for > the 160A/8090 > 15. 1700 Software > 16. The entire software library for the Roseville TFC/MTC 32bit mini- > computer. > >And much much more. > >Since a crisis precipitated by the unreasonable real-estate tax and >redevelopment policies of Anoka County, MN in 1991, we were denied >our musuem building and forced to store the above systems in storage >unit warehousing in the Twin Cities area. The rental agreement was >reasonable at the time but in the ensuing years the warehouse company >decided to breach the agreement and forced us to pay ever increasing >rent until it has become a major burden. The intent was to ready >new facilities in Northern Minnesota and move the collection; the >high rent at the warehouses and the high cost of transportation has >delayed the relocation effort. > >We must pay $900.00 per month for the storage; we are attempting to >raise money to cover some past rent to avoid a lien sale on April >23. We are open to discussions to salvage the collection before the >sale and/or to partner with others and receive donations to support >the ongoing rental until relocation is possible. > >Please help us avoid the sad loss of such important artifacts. > >Michael Grigoni >founder and president >Cybertheque Museum From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Apr 18 15:03:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Flippy disks (was: Stop it! Re: Where can one find 2.5 inch In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030418120952.03294008@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: > >Anyone else have any Amlyn diskettes? (besides Sam) It's an EARLY 1.2M > >with 5 disks in a holder and a mechanism for changing disks under software > >control. The diskettes are usable as 1.2M, but have extra holes for the > >changing mechanism. On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > I remember back in my early BBC days, when the floppy drives were often > single-sided, being able to buy "flippable discs" - they had extra holes in > them so you could insert the disc into the drive either way up, and use > both sides! The extra holes in the Amlyn included a large rectangualr hole near the corner to give the changer something to grab. > You could also buy some natty little punches to allow you to modify stock > floppies in the same way. That was one of my first retail products 25 years ago - a plexiglass jig for marking the location for the index hole and write enable notch, with a punch for making the holes. The deluxe model also had a jig onthe side for applying hub reinforcing rings. I have discontinued the product, and at the last VCF, I couldn't even sell NOS ones. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Apr 18 15:29:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Now tape drive was Re: Cranking up a HP 7914. In-Reply-To: Joe's message of "Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:30:42" References: <3.0.6.16.20030417131338.51a75ec8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030418153042.10c7655c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200304182018.h3IKIc5m017303@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote: > Anybody know if these use the same tapes as the HP > 9144/7942/7946? Also if the 9144/7942/7946s can read the 7914 tapes? Yes and yes, up to a point. They do use HP 88140 tapes (and may take 3M DC6xxHC tapes too). I don't think you can easily use the 791x/4x standalone disk->tape backups to restore the image to another model of drive. For that matter, I'm not sure what the drive writes on them in the course of a standalone backup or whether the drive will permit user-level read access to the standalone backup media. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't, except for notions about security, but then I'm pretty sure these drives will write to some regions of the tape even if you've set the write-protect knob to "protect" -- so I think they're too smart for their own good. -Frank McConnell From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 18 16:07:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Flippy disks (was: Stop it! Re: Where can one find 2.5 inch In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030418120952.03294008@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030418170359.10cf54f2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:00 PM 4/18/03 -0700, Grumpy Fred wrote: > >That was one of my first retail products 25 years ago - a plexiglass jig >for marking the location for the index hole and write enable notch, with a >punch for making the holes. The deluxe model also had a jig onthe side >for applying hub reinforcing rings. >I have discontinued the product, and at the last VCF, I couldn't even sell >NOS ones. You should put one on E-bay with lots of hype. I'll bet you'll get an arm and a leg for it. :-/ Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 18 16:23:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Help! Facit 4042 PT Reader/Punch Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030418172202.11177888@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Pulled this out of deep storage this past week but it seems to be dead. Does anyone have any info on these? Specs, pinouts, general info, service info, anything? Joe From spedraja at ono.com Fri Apr 18 16:42:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Help! Facit 4042 PT Reader/Punch References: <3.0.6.16.20030418172202.11177888@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <017d01c305f3$029f6c20$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> I think this is the model that I get some months ago from Germany. Mine has HP-IB interface, but this interface comes in a board that could be swapped for another one with RS-232 interface. I couldn't put the machine to work again by diverse reasons, but it appears to be in good shape (and oiled). Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 7:22 PM Subject: Help! Facit 4042 PT Reader/Punch > Pulled this out of deep storage this past week but it seems to be dead. Does anyone have any info on these? Specs, pinouts, general info, service info, anything? > > Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 18 17:23:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Stop it! Re: Where can one find 2.5 inch floppy disks, and In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030418120952.03294008@pop.freeserve.net> from "Rob O'Donnell" at Apr 18, 3 12:11:27 pm Message-ID: > I remember back in my early BBC days, when the floppy drives were often > single-sided, being able to buy "flippable discs" - they had extra holes in > them so you could insert the disc into the drive either way up, and use > both sides! I've seen a 5.25" signle-head drive that had the option of 2 index sensors and 2 write-protect switches so that any normal disk could be flipped over. 3" single-head drives normally allowed you to insert the disk both ways up too, so as to use both sides. Double head drives had an extra bracket so that the disk would only fit the right way up. Which meant that double-head drives could not normally read disks written on single-head drives (since the 'flup side' was recorded backwards...) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 18 17:25:04 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <20030418152317.29182.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 18, 3 08:23:17 am Message-ID: > --- Mail List wrote: > > > but I still don't know how to sit down and accurately > > > determine the physical characteristics of these gears > > > > > > Look up gears/gearing in Machinery's Handbook for a definition > > of all the defining parameters for gears. > > That's a nice tip, but could you go one step further and give > the complete title of a book I could go to the Library Reference That is the title... It's a thick reference book (over 1000 pages IIRC) that includes just about every useful table for mechanical engineering -- thread cutting, gears, etc. I found an old copy (1943 IIRC) for \pounds 1.00 in a second-hand bookshop. The problem with a copy that old is that it doesn't include things like standard metric screw threads. On the other hand the information that is there is still valid, at least for the sort od engineering I do. It's like old copies of the 'rubber bible' (the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics). The last few figures of some of the constants may well have chnaged by now. But I can't work to that accuracy at home :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 18 17:27:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Wanted: TRS-80 PC-2 Pocket Computer Plotter pens In-Reply-To: <000101c305c8$3e1c5c70$6300a8c0@benchbox> from "Jeffrey S. Worley" at Apr 18, 3 12:33:24 pm Message-ID: > Why is cannibalizing the new printers not an option? If you can replace 2 good reasons... 1) There's not an unlimited supply of 'new' plotter mechanisms But more importantly 2) These gears fail in storage anyway. I think it's from the stressed caused by press-fitting them onto the motor spindle -- they crack longtitudinally between the teeth. For example, my CGP115 was OK when I packed it away. When I got it out again a year or so later, one of the gears had failed. Now I think both are broken. -tony From rborsuk at colourfull.com Fri Apr 18 18:41:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Closet sale part II In-Reply-To: <00ee01c305c3$ecb5b9c0$05247452@newhare> Message-ID: Hi All, Here comes my second lot of cleaning. Let me know if you see something you like. Naturally cost plus shipping. Unless you live in Michigan then you can come pick up if you want. Paypal, money order, check. Whatever. TI 99/4a with power supply, TV modulator, and 2 books - $10 Complete year 1974 of Radio-Electronics -$12.00 (or trade for some Kilobaud microcomputing) The $5.00 pile Adaptec 2940 AHA SCSI card 3COM 3c905-TX 3COM 3csoho100-TX HP Jetdirect card J2550 10BaseT The $3.00 pile Boca research multi-IO card BRI4320 laserjet III memory expansion (micron) don't know the size Thanks Rob ps. I'm still looking for the pascal microengine. Working or not. I'm willing to spend the elbow grease on one. Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 18 19:40:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Flippy disks (was: Stop it! Re: Where can one find 2.5 inch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I have discontinued the product, and at the last VCF, I couldn't even sell > NOS ones. If I'd have known you were selling them I would have grabbed one. I'm usually too busy running around to notice cool little things like that sitting on the table. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rborsuk at colourfull.com Fri Apr 18 19:51:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Closet sale part II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hang on , small correction - Radio electronics DOES NOT come with the july issue. Sorry about that. Rob On Friday, April 18, 2003, at 07:39 PM, Robert Borsuk wrote: > Hi All, > Here comes my second lot of cleaning. Let me know if you see > something you like. Naturally cost plus shipping. Unless you live in > Michigan then you can come pick up if you want. Paypal, money order, > check. Whatever. > > TI 99/4a with power supply, TV modulator, and 2 books - $10 > > Complete year 1974 of Radio-Electronics -$12.00 (or trade for some > Kilobaud microcomputing) > > The $5.00 pile > Adaptec 2940 AHA SCSI card > 3COM 3c905-TX > 3COM 3csoho100-TX > HP Jetdirect card J2550 10BaseT > > The $3.00 pile > Boca research multi-IO card BRI4320 > laserjet III memory expansion (micron) don't know the size > > Thanks > Rob > > ps. I'm still looking for the pascal microengine. Working or not. I'm > willing to spend the elbow grease on one. > > > > Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com > President > Colourfull Creations > http://www.colourfull.com From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 18 19:56:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Mac LCII in San Antonio, Texas Message-ID: If interested in a Mac LCII, contact original sender. If I was interested I wouldn't pay more than $5. Reply-to: texcritsit@devtex.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:34:19 -0500 From: texcritsit Subject: I have an Apple I have an Apple Macintosh LC II system. Includes keyboard, mouse, monitor, and printer. Need more specs? How much are you willing to pay? I live in San Antonio, Texas. If you're interested contact me at gabehack@hotmail.com ~Gabe Hackebeil~ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 18 20:13:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Help! Facit 4042 PT Reader/Punch In-Reply-To: <017d01c305f3$029f6c20$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030418172202.11177888@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030418210810.514fb5f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Sergio, This one was completely dead so I've torn into it. I has two RS-232 interfaces. They're on the 2nd board from the bottom. Found a bad power switch and bad power lamp in this one. I don't know it everything is working properly but it at least makes noises now when I press various buttons. (An operator's manual would be handy about now!) It would interesting to have one with HP-IB interface! I'm thinking about putting this on the HP 1000 that I just got so HP-IB interface would be perfect. I've never even heard of a reader/punch with a HP-IB interface. I didn't find much on the net except re-sellers that want outragous prices for their's but I did find this . Joe At 11:39 PM 4/18/03 +0200, you wrote: >I think this is the model that I get some months ago from Germany. >Mine has HP-IB interface, but this interface comes in a board that could >be swapped for another one with RS-232 interface. > >I couldn't put the machine to work again by diverse reasons, but it appears >to be in good shape (and oiled). > >Thanks and Greetings >Best Regards >Sergio > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: >Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 7:22 PM >Subject: Help! Facit 4042 PT Reader/Punch > > >> Pulled this out of deep storage this past week but it seems to be dead. >Does anyone have any info on these? Specs, pinouts, general info, service >info, anything? >> >> Joe From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Apr 18 20:26:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Closet sale part II References: Message-ID: <010601c30612$aec4b1d0$7f00a8c0@midorirose.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Borsuk" To: Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 7:39 PM Subject: Closet sale part II > HP Jetdirect card J2550 10BaseT Looks like it will work with the 4V. If you still have this, I'd like it. > Rob Bob From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 18 20:41:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Help! Facit 4042 PT Reader/Punch In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030418210810.514fb5f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <017d01c305f3$029f6c20$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <3.0.6.16.20030418172202.11177888@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030418213903.10b7a5c6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just finished putting this one back together. I can now punch holes and feed tape through the reader and punch (using the front panel controls) so I think it's all working now. But I'm not sure what most of the controls are supposed to do. Is there anyone familar with these that can help? Joe At 09:08 PM 4/18/03, you wrote: > Sergio, > > This one was completely dead so I've torn into it. I has two RS-232 interfaces. They're on the 2nd board from the bottom. Found a bad power switch and bad power lamp in this one. I don't know it everything is working properly but it at least makes noises now when I press various buttons. (An operator's manual would be handy about now!) It would interesting to have one with HP-IB interface! I'm thinking about putting this on the HP 1000 that I just got so HP-IB interface would be perfect. I've never even heard of a reader/punch with a HP-IB interface. > > I didn't find much on the net except re-sellers that want outragous prices for their's but I did find this . > > Joe > >At 11:39 PM 4/18/03 +0200, you wrote: >>I think this is the model that I get some months ago from Germany. >>Mine has HP-IB interface, but this interface comes in a board that could >>be swapped for another one with RS-232 interface. >> >>I couldn't put the machine to work again by diverse reasons, but it appears >>to be in good shape (and oiled). >> >>Thanks and Greetings >>Best Regards >>Sergio >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joe" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 7:22 PM >>Subject: Help! Facit 4042 PT Reader/Punch >> >> >>> Pulled this out of deep storage this past week but it seems to be dead. >>Does anyone have any info on these? Specs, pinouts, general info, service >>info, anything? >>> >>> Joe From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Apr 18 23:16:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: <20030418164301.19804.27797.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030419041359.48942.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> > From: dlormand@aztecfreenet.org (DAVID L. ORMAND) > > I have been told (by an IT professional, take that > for what it's worth) that 5.25" 360K drives have > the latch handle on the left side of the drive, and > the 1.2M drives have it on the right side. All the > drives I have in view right now, this is true. > > Anybody have a notion of whether this is absolutely > true in fact? You've already gotten an answer from others on the list on this. LOL! > It sure would make sorting drives easier than > trying them out on an old peecee! (Which actually > needs to be done anyways, to test for > functionality.) A rule of thumb I use, but I won't swear is universal... Is the LED color. USUALLY... Red LED signifies 360k/180k Drives, and a Green LED signifies 1.2mb Drives. And I also think that as for IBM Drives, the 360k at one point were made with and Asterisk molded into the front case. I could have this reverse. But, I seem to remember some discussion (perhaps here) that someone thought it was odd that IBM would start adding the asterisk to 360k Drives, hence having some with and some without, rather than just making all 1.2mb drives with asterisks. I may have this one reversed though. But, I've used the LED color as a good indicator for years. Also, if you look at the jumpers on the logic board, near the drive select jumpers... A 1.2mb drive should have a Speed Select Jumper (SS) to select High speed Data Transfer to work on AT-Standard Floppy Controllers, and low speed (for what? I don't know... Maybe to work on an 8in Drive Controller?) So, that's another indication of whether the drive is high or low density. Regards, Al Hartman The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From spedraja at ono.com Sat Apr 19 02:03:01 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Help! Facit 4042 PT Reader/Punch References: <017d01c305f3$029f6c20$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> <3.0.6.16.20030418172202.11177888@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030418213903.10b7a5c6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <01af01c30641$7b810600$0d02a8c0@cavorita.net> I shall try to ask about it to the previous owner of the machine. I think that I have the old messages that I've interchanged with him yet, included the photos of how to dismount and mount the Paper Tape Reader/Puncher. Depending of the answers, we could even consider a module interchange ;-) One HP-IB for one RS-232 board (but I don't think it would be so easy). Thanks and Greetings Best Regards Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 11:39 PM Subject: Re: Help! Facit 4042 PT Reader/Punch > I just finished putting this one back together. I can now punch holes and feed tape through the reader and punch (using the front panel controls) so I think it's all working now. But I'm not sure what most of the controls are supposed to do. Is there anyone familar with these that can help? > > Joe > > At 09:08 PM 4/18/03, you wrote: > > Sergio, > > > > This one was completely dead so I've torn into it. I has two RS-232 interfaces. They're on the 2nd board from the bottom. Found a bad power switch and bad power lamp in this one. I don't know it everything is working properly but it at least makes noises now when I press various buttons. (An operator's manual would be handy about now!) It would interesting to have one with HP-IB interface! I'm thinking about putting this on the HP 1000 that I just got so HP-IB interface would be perfect. I've never even heard of a reader/punch with a HP-IB interface. > > > > I didn't find much on the net except re-sellers that want outragous prices for their's but I did find this . > > > > Joe > > > >At 11:39 PM 4/18/03 +0200, you wrote: > >>I think this is the model that I get some months ago from Germany. > >>Mine has HP-IB interface, but this interface comes in a board that could > >>be swapped for another one with RS-232 interface. > >> > >>I couldn't put the machine to work again by diverse reasons, but it appears > >>to be in good shape (and oiled). > >> > >>Thanks and Greetings > >>Best Regards > >>Sergio > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Joe" > >>To: > >>Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 7:22 PM > >>Subject: Help! Facit 4042 PT Reader/Punch > >> > >> > >>> Pulled this out of deep storage this past week but it seems to be dead. > >>Does anyone have any info on these? Specs, pinouts, general info, service > >>info, anything? > >>> > >>> Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Apr 19 11:23:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: paging dan veeneman Message-ID: <000701c3068f$bd73aab0$6900a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Sent a few emails to Dan Veeneman, no replies - was wondering if I had the right email address. Regards, Jay West From dan at ekoan.com Sat Apr 19 12:39:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: DEC disk packs. In-Reply-To: <060b01c3042c$7f806960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030419133241.02e7bec0@enigma> Hi Jay, I'm still working my way through the backlog of e-mail. At 10:26 AM 4/16/03 -0500, you wrote: >Here Here... I 2nd that... I'm in need of some RL02 media, and I'd gladly >pay shipping if you'd be willing... I've got a couple of RL02 disk packs here. They're in good physical shape, but since I don't have an RL02 drive or even a PDP to run them on, I have no idea if they're useable. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From dan at ekoan.com Sat Apr 19 12:42:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: paging dan veeneman In-Reply-To: <000701c3068f$bd73aab0$6900a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030419133739.030a0350@enigma> At 11:21 AM 4/19/03 -0500, you wrote: >Sent a few emails to Dan Veeneman, no replies - was wondering if I had the >right email address. I've been on travel, and just returned to several hundred e-mail messages. Sorry for the delay. Jay, I've sent you responses under separate cover. Regards, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From wrb at wrbuckley.com Sat Apr 19 13:35:00 2003 From: wrb at wrbuckley.com (William R. Buckley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally Produced by Tim Shoppa) In-Reply-To: <3EA02A85.2C83F6DC@compsys.to> Message-ID: <001601c305e1$030f7130$992cfea9@softnerdhqpo000> Jerome: Frankly, I would like to obtain these CD's but, my current economic condition is such that I cannot now afford them, and I really do not want to burden others. The collapse of the software industry has hit us all pretty hard, with those of us in California experiencing a continuing downward trend. When things pick-up, I expect to then place such an order. In fact, at that time I may well be in the position to obtain high=speed wireless access from a local provider, and can then both make my own copies, and provide some mirroring to the data. As you will recall, I had earlier posted to the list questions regarding requests I had made to Tim Shoppa which he had not responded to, and so I wondered if Tim was still around and working to provide the content you now provide. I do feel for you in that you have taken up the charge but, others seem not to show interest. So you know, my mailing address is William R. Buckley POBox 292728 Phelan CA 92329-2728 My preferred email address is wrb@wrbuckley.com From Eurtly at Southslope.net Sat Apr 19 13:36:56 2003 From: Eurtly at Southslope.net (Eurtly) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: SN76477N Message-ID: I just ran into this article that you have posted. I have all the data sheets and even a couple of SN76477N chips that I just aquired. I'm looking for more of the SN76477N AND SN76488 CHIPS or the replacements. Can you help me out here... Eurtly Parker Eurtly@Southslope.net _____________________________________________________________________ Old TI analog sound chip; info? Tothwolf cctech@classiccmp.org Tue Dec 17 16:04:55 2002 Previous message: Old TI analog sound chip; info? Next message: Old TI analog sound chip; info? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > I'm looking for the documentation for the olde TI analog sound chip; > > this dates back to the late 70's early 80's if my memory serves me > > correctly. I don't even remember the part number. AFAIK, it had some > > kind of "I2L" (I squared > > The number 'SN76477' springs to mind. May not be the same device, but it > was a TI analogue sound generator. The sound generator chips that I recall TI making were the SN76477N, SN76488N, and the SN94281. I believe TI also made some others, but those were commonly available to hobbyist in the time period that is mentioned above. I'm fairly sure Radio Shack at one time sold some of those particular sound generator chips too. I have the data sheet for the SN94281, but I'm not sure about the other two. If it would be helpful, I can scan it. -Toth From Paul.HILLS at landisgyr.com Sat Apr 19 13:38:43 2003 From: Paul.HILLS at landisgyr.com (Hills Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Seeking good home(s) for old hardware [UK] Message-ID: <50B5734B22082241A292BA7DDC0AFACD275247@exdrnsbelng03.eq1lng.local> I would love to take the SWTP6809 system. I already have an SWTP6800 that I acquired recently. Getting on 20 years ago I built a 6809 based computer from a series running in the UK magazine "Electronics & Computing Monthly", called the 77/68 system. This was based on the SWTP stuff but was marketed through a company called Stirling Microsystems in Baker Street, London. Does anyone else here remember that system? There's one reference to it on a Google search here: http://www.jakelod.demon.co.uk/7768.htm, although now even that link isn't working anymore. Was I the only person ever to build it?!!! I never got it working, and I think my parents must have chucked it all out unfortunately, although I've still got all the docs including circuit diagram and hex dumps. paul -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Chase Sent: 16 April 2003 21:20 To: Classic Computers Subject: Fwd: Seeking good home(s) for old hardware [UK] Here's something of possible interest to rightpondians. -brian. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:23:51 +0000 >From: John Carlyle-Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Seeking good home(s) for old hardware Can anyone provide any suggestions, flippant or otherwise, as to where I might seek new homes for some old kit that has been cluttering my attic for many years? My wife is putting her foot down, and frankly I am never going to do anything with it. I am paring down my collection of old computers and peripherals to a few that I will actually use, and trying to find people who will actually use the others. So I need homes for: * SWTPC 6809 computer. Main unit, disk unit inc. 8 1/2" Qume floppy drive, Western digital harddisk controller but no HDD. VDU/terminal (not working). Used to run Uniflex (but I don't have this, since the hard disk crashed and there were no originals provided). I have all the hardware and software manuals. I have seen this computer working but it has been stored a long time. * Remex paper tape reader/writer (works as far as I know, but I don't have the cables for it). * Diablo daisy wheel (have seen it working but about 17 years ago!) It's a long shot, but somebody may be able to help. I can provide more details if anyone is interested. Mail me at jpcc "at" bigfoot "dot" com if you prefer. I am in the UK. From vivid at australia.edu Sat Apr 19 13:44:45 2003 From: vivid at australia.edu (vivid@australia.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: WANTED: Microbee(s) Message-ID: <3ea03660.7014.0@australia.edu> Is there anyone out there that has, or knows of anyone with microbee(s) they want to sell/get rid of. please mail me at vivid@australia.edu with ANY info. Thanks.. any info would be helpful. Study Business at USQ's Australian Graduate School of Business. http://www.usq.edu.au/faculty/business/usqagsb/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 19 13:47:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: <20030419041359.48942.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > A rule of thumb I use, but I won't swear is > universal... Is the LED color. USUALLY... Red LED > signifies 360k/180k Drives, and a Green LED signifies > 1.2mb Drives. Like the faceplate color, that is one that TENDS to be correct, but with exceptions. Some of the earliest 1.2M had red LEDs, andsome of the later 360K drives had green. But it would work for a rough sort, followed by confirmation by model number. > And I also think that as for IBM Drives, the 360k at > one point were made with and Asterisk molded into the > front case. I could have this reverse. But, I seem to > remember some discussion (perhaps here) that someone > thought it was odd that IBM would start adding the > asterisk to 360k Drives, hence having some with and > some without, rather than just making all 1.2mb drives > with asterisks. > I may have this one reversed though. No, YOU have it right; IBM did it wrong. Once there were two similar drives, there was a need for visual identification. The RIGHT way to do it would have been to put the added emblem on the NEW type, so that all of the old ones would already be correctly labelled. OR make two different emblems, so that all emblemed drives would be labelled. > But, I've used the LED color as a good indicator for > years. Glad it's worked for you, but there ARE exceptions. The incorrect door handle one worked for somebody (who had simply switched brands of drives at the same time that they switched from buying 360K to buying 1.2M) > Also, if you look at the jumpers on the logic board, > near the drive select jumpers... A 1.2mb drive should > have a Speed Select Jumper (SS) to select High speed > Data Transfer to work on AT-Standard Floppy > Controllers, and low speed (for what? I don't know... > Maybe to work on an 8in Drive Controller?) NO! At least a third of the 1.2M drives do NOT have a speed select. It is for whether the drive changes speed 300 v 360 RPM, NOT for data transfer rate. The data transfer rate of a 1.2M at "high" density IS the rate of an 8" DSDD. The two are indistinguishable, unless you count 77 v 80 tracks. > So, that's another indication of whether the drive is > high or low density. If a drive does both 300 RPM AND 360 RPM, then it is 1.2M If a drive supports both 300 and 360 RPM, then the controller needs only 250K and 500K data transfer rates. (Plus 125K bits per second if you want to do 5.25" FM (150K bits per second with single speed 1.2M drives)) If a drive only does one speed, then it could be a 360K drive, OR it could be a 1.2M that expects the controller to handle the difference. The IBM AT controller did 250K, 300K, and 500K bits per second data transfer rates, and used single speed drives. If the single speed is 300 RPM, then it is a 360K drive. If the single speed is 360 RPM, then it is a 1.2M drive. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Sat Apr 19 14:42:01 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Seeking good home(s) for old hardware [UK] In-Reply-To: <50B5734B22082241A292BA7DDC0AFACD275247@exdrnsbelng03.eq1lng.local> Message-ID: <000a01c306ab$78c29c20$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Getting on 20 years ago I built a 6809 based computer from a > series running in the UK magazine "Electronics & Computing > Monthly", called the 77/68 system. This was based on the SWTP > stuff but was marketed through a company called Stirling > Microsystems in Baker Street, London. Does anyone else here > remember that system? ... As I remember it, the 77/68 was published in the ACC newsletter (not in E&CM) - the original was a rather neat design by Mike Lord on 8" square PCBs. I built a seriously extended one of these (which eventually "fissioned" into two complete systems - connected by a homebrew network that was a sort of very cheap slow ethernet). Some boards were from the original design - others I designed and implemented myself ... most notably including a 6809 board (the original was a 6800) with the only technical data being a pin-out and some other vague descriptions in a Byte article. It was a couple of years of successful use before I discovered that I was feeding the clock in through the "wrong" pin! Amongst the peripherals that this system acquired was a large Calcomp plotter surplus from the University mainframe. Unfortunately most of the hardware and documents have now been recycled or worse. Andy From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Apr 19 14:53:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Chips in Germany Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030419154759.00a47010@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Here's an interesting variety of chips for any collectors ( chip or computer ) in Germany CPU 10 St?ck Intel- AMD -Cyrix-Kingston-IBM Current bid EUR 10.50 (approx. US $11.42 ) Time left 21 hours, 56 mins + http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3413239714&category=32162 From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Sat Apr 19 15:35:01 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: FS/A: Northern Telecom (NT) DisplayPhone Plus NT6K90AC In-Reply-To: <20030417122551.55577.qmail@web40507.mail.yahoo.com> from "Todd Nathan" at Apr 17, 2003 05:25:51 AM Message-ID: <200304192033.h3JKXNM8022291@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >I have for sale a few Northern Telecom (yes, NT, not Nortel) Model NT6K90AC Displayphone, Date of Mfr. Nov 15 1984 (yeps, that makes them almost 19 years old, way ahead of their time). If you are interested, and know what this is for, do let me know. I think 50 USD for each is fairly reasonable. They are in very, very good working condition taken out of service a number of years ago, stored and finally sold off recently. I picked them up at a government auction, and they are being sold as-is. I know little to nothing about them, and am by no means an expert, you are more than I am...PS. I hope this is ok to offer these here for sale. I looked at the listing, and it seems this kind of device was WAY ahead of its time, so much so that NT didn't do m uch with them, but they are prized for collectors. I hope I can find a nice home for them.Best wishesTodd Nathan >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > These have been discussed previously (you may want to check the list archive) here, but they are basicly all in one voice/data terminals that were indeed ahead of their time. I had one from around '83-'88 I used pretty regularly. They have a built in chicklet style keyboard (if you plug it in, go to the notepad and test that all the keys work), as well as telephone and program related keys up top. Those small unlabled set of keys along the base of the screen are called "soft keys" and are basicly software programmable keys (another advanced feauture for the time). It was capable of connection from 75-1200 baud, and 40 or 80 column vt100 display capabilities (thought you better have good eyesight for the 80 column setting on that tiny screen). It had a speakerphone built in and multi-line capability. The directory storage (which was rather large and capable of user definition) was interesting in that you could differentiate between voice and data calls in an entry, and even store all the modem and terminal settings individually for each entry. Marty From mike at shawnuff.net Sat Apr 19 16:04:01 2003 From: mike at shawnuff.net (Mike Shaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Howdy...new to list and a couple questions. Message-ID: <200304192102.h3JL2Oro046770@mailserver1.hushmail.com> Hey there! I hope this isn't bad form but I'm new to the list and just wanted to put my collecting needs out there and ask a question or two. Currently I'm partial to anything TRS-80, PCjr, or PC XT related. But I'm also trying to fill in some gaps with Commodore , TI 99, and Apple II(e). Also, where do y'all find most of your stuff? There's always ebay, but that's usually at a premium. I've thought about notifying some of the local auction houses to keep an eye out. Any input would be appreciated, and it's good to know that there are folks out there who don't immediately think "samford and son" whenever they see "obsolete" hardware! -Mike From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Apr 19 16:16:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Howdy...new to list and a couple questions. In-Reply-To: <200304192102.h3JL2Oro046770@mailserver1.hushmail.com> References: <200304192102.h3JL2Oro046770@mailserver1.hushmail.com> Message-ID: <20030419211116.22707.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Mike Shaw writes: > Hey there! I hope this isn't bad form but I'm new to the list and just > wanted to put my collecting needs out there and ask a question or two. > > Currently I'm partial to anything TRS-80, PCjr, or PC XT related. But > I'm also trying to fill in some gaps with Commodore , TI 99, and Apple > II(e). > > Also, where do y'all find most of your stuff? There's always ebay, but > that's usually at a premium. I've thought about notifying some of the > local auction houses to keep an eye out. First, welcome to our little world and hope you enjoy your stay. I've found some of my goodies at hamfests, and very rarely at computer swap meets, as most computer vendors try to get the latest stuff they can. Sometimes Goodwill or other thrist stores might have something interesting. Mostly it is a matter of keeping eyes and ears open. Quite often people will simply give stuff away rather than trying to deal with disposal. Auctions can be good; my girlfriend got me several dot matrix printers, a VGA monitor, and odds and ends of PC stuff for . . . $1.00. And another good place is a computer recycling outfit, or office surplus organization, if any are nearby. Gary HIldebrand WA7KKP St. Joseph, MO From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 19 16:26:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: <20030419041359.48942.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> from "Al Hartman" at Apr 18, 3 09:13:59 pm Message-ID: > A rule of thumb I use, but I won't swear is > universal... Is the LED color. USUALLY... Red LED > signifies 360k/180k Drives, and a Green LED signifies > 1.2mb Drives. Again, not reliable. The 1.2M drive on this machine (orginal IBM) has a red LED. I think that for Teac drives, the LED colour was actually a customer-selectable option (red, yellow and green all exist, for all types of drives) > > And I also think that as for IBM Drives, the 360k at > one point were made with and Asterisk molded into the > front case. I could have this reverse. But, I seem to > remember some discussion (perhaps here) that someone > thought it was odd that IBM would start adding the > asterisk to 360k Drives, hence having some with and > some without, rather than just making all 1.2mb drives > with asterisks. It's more complicated than that. There are 2 types of IBM 360K half-height drives. The one that was used in the PortablePC and the PCjr does _not_ have the asterisk. The one that is used in the PC/AT does. The 2 drives have other differences too -- they were made by different manufacturers normally (the PortablePC / PCjr one is a Qume, I forget who made the one for the PC/AT), and I suspect pin 34 changed between Ready and DiskChange. No IBM 1.2M drive has the asterisk. This is really stupid (as others have pointed out) -- it would have been much easier and clearer to mark the 'new' type of drive -- the 1.2M one. > Also, if you look at the jumpers on the logic board, > near the drive select jumpers... A 1.2mb drive should > have a Speed Select Jumper (SS) to select High speed > Data Transfer to work on AT-Standard Floppy > Controllers, and low speed (for what? I don't know... > Maybe to work on an 8in Drive Controller?) No, the 8" controller would have wanted the higher speed too (360rpm). IBM controllers always spun the 1.2M drive at 360rpm, which means they had to support a 300kbps transfer rate (==(360/300) * 250kbps) for 360K disks in 1.2M drives. The lower speed (almost never used) was to allow 360K disks to be read at 250kbps on a suitable controller. However, this jumper is also not a reliable indication of drive type. Many later drives have almost no jumpers at all, and SS would be one of the first to vanish as almost nobody used it. So there are 1.2M drives around without the jumper. And some manufactuerers used common logic boards and even spindle motor PCBs for 360K and 1.2M drives. Which means there are 360K drives out there with the SS jumper. -tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Apr 19 16:28:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Howdy...new to list and a couple questions. References: <200304192102.h3JL2Oro046770@mailserver1.hushmail.com> Message-ID: <020901c306ba$238469f0$5c08dd40@oemcomputer> If you are looking for Apple stuff I find that School auctions are the best source for Apple items. Also many still have older Commodore items as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Shaw" To: Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 4:02 PM Subject: Howdy...new to list and a couple questions. > Hey there! I hope this isn't bad form but I'm new to the list and just > wanted to put my collecting needs out there and ask a question or two. > > Currently I'm partial to anything TRS-80, PCjr, or PC XT related. But > I'm also trying to fill in some gaps with Commodore , TI 99, and Apple > II(e). > > Also, where do y'all find most of your stuff? There's always ebay, but > that's usually at a premium. I've thought about notifying some of the > local auction houses to keep an eye out. > > Any input would be appreciated, and it's good to know that there are > folks out there who don't immediately think "samford and son" whenever > they see "obsolete" hardware! > > -Mike From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Apr 19 17:22:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Seeking good home(s) for old hardware [UK] References: <50B5734B22082241A292BA7DDC0AFACD275247@exdrnsbelng03.eq1lng.local> Message-ID: <3EA1CC29.3080204@gifford.co.uk> Hills Paul wrote: > Getting on 20 years ago I built a 6809 based computer from a series > running in the UK magazine "Electronics & Computing Monthly", called > the 77/68 system. This was based on the SWTP stuff but was marketed > through a company called Stirling Microsystems in Baker Street, London. > Does anyone else here remember that system? Yes! I called in at the Baker Street shop one day when I was at Uni in London (1981-85). I was very keen on the 6809 at the time (and still am) but there wasn't much going on at the shop. Not sure if they even had an example of the machine there that day. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From nampcjr at yahoo.com Sat Apr 19 18:04:01 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Howdy...new to list and a couple questions. In-Reply-To: <200304192102.h3JL2Oro046770@mailserver1.hushmail.com> Message-ID: <20030419230236.30290.qmail@web20713.mail.yahoo.com> Mike With the PCjr stuff, I might be a help. I have a very extensive collection of PCjr items as well as my own site dedicated to PCjr stuff http://www.micro-zone.com . A lot of my stuff was bought on Ebay or through private channels via Usenet....Usenet requests are usually where I eneded up getting great amounts of extras that people on Ebay normally sold separately... Brian The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 19 18:07:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: FS/A: Northern Telecom (NT) DisplayPhone Plus NT6K90AC In-Reply-To: <200304192033.h3JKXNM8022291@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Apr 2003, Martin Scott Goldberg wrote: > These have been discussed previously (you may want to check the list > archive) here, but they are basicly all in one voice/data terminals that > were indeed ahead of their time. I had one from around '83-'88 I used I'm in need of a power supply if anyone has a spare. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 19 18:08:49 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Howdy...new to list and a couple questions. In-Reply-To: <200304192102.h3JL2Oro046770@mailserver1.hushmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Apr 2003, Mike Shaw wrote: > Hey there! I hope this isn't bad form but I'm new to the list and just > wanted to put my collecting needs out there and ask a question or two. > > Currently I'm partial to anything TRS-80, PCjr, or PC XT related. But > I'm also trying to fill in some gaps with Commodore , TI 99, and Apple > II(e). Hey, Mike. Where are you at? I can probably help you out with an Apple //e. > Also, where do y'all find most of your stuff? There's always ebay, but > that's usually at a premium. I've thought about notifying some of the > local auction houses to keep an eye out. Try this article for tips: http://www.vintage.org/content.php?id=001 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dgari at msn.com Sat Apr 19 18:29:00 2003 From: dgari at msn.com (David Gari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay Message-ID: I am selling my second and last MITS Altair 8800a due to on-going unemployment. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2723371361 This will be the only notice given here. Thank you. -David Gari _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From roger161uk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Apr 19 18:49:00 2003 From: roger161uk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Roger=20Bisson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: 286 Computers Message-ID: <20030419234743.75792.qmail@web14104.mail.yahoo.com> Dear List, What is the concensus on disposal of 286 and 386sx hardware -- should they be consigned to the bin, or are there any folks out there collecting them? (or needing spares?). One is a Schneider 286 Tower PC (10Mhz), and the other is a Philips P3345 (16Mhz). Personally, I do not view either as being particularly noteworth (other than, perhaps, for sentimental reasons) .. but seems such a shame to turn them into landfill :-) Best regards, Roger For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 19 19:20:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: 286 Computers In-Reply-To: <20030419234743.75792.qmail@web14104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Roger Bisson wrote: > What is the concensus on disposal of 286 and 386sx > hardware -- should they be consigned to the bin, or > are there any folks out there collecting them? (or > needing spares?). > > One is a Schneider 286 Tower PC (10Mhz), and the other > is a Philips P3345 (16Mhz). I sometimes hold on to some name brand models (i.e. Dell, Compaq) but only if they are representative of a certain PC era or style, or were interesting or unique in their own way (both technological and design wise). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From CCTalk at catcorner.org Sat Apr 19 19:55:01 2003 From: CCTalk at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:07 2005 Subject: Fortune systems parts available Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B86A@308server.308dole.com> > I have the mother board (no security chip), several I/O cards, console > card, console, two terminals, a paper box of software and manuals (I > haven't inventoried yet), floppy drive and a power supply for a fortune > 16:32 (or was it 32:16?). > > All the cards and motherboard are in their original shipping/packing > containers. > > This is the spare parts inventory of a local (New Jersey USA) law firm > that has moved on to one of the Linux > > Any takers? > > Make and offer (I'm not looking for ebay prices). Would be shipping from > 07848. > > Kelly From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 19 20:10:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The beige faceplate on 360K is yellower than on 1.2M 360K has jumpers for drive 0,1,2,3; 1.2M has jumpers for A,B 360K has a screen that is usually white on black; 1.2M has a screen that is white on blue. (If it bluescreens, then the drive is a 1.2M) From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Apr 19 20:21:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally Produced by Tim Shoppa) Message-ID: <3EA1F597.6E953EA6@compsys.to> The last two times I posted this, another person contacted me either for help or to request the CDs. This will be the last time for about 6 months unless more people reply. In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 that Tim Shoppa originally produced: I am in the middle of finishing a second (very small) batch of CDs and could easily add a few additional copies. I will be making all copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ Since not everyone has both a high speed internet connection and a CD burner, I thought it would be helpful to make them available. If you have both requirements and are using Windows 98 SE / Nero Burning, I can help with the details if you don't know how to burn a CD from an "Image File". I have even been able to produce a label for each CD that is close to the original label from Tim Shoppa, although since they were scanned (THANK YOU FOR THE HELP), they are not perfect. They are available at $ 5 / $ 9 / $ 12 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. In addition, I understand that Memorex Black CD-Rs have a longer shelf life and are available at Business Depot. If anyone wants those instead, add $ 1 for each CD that you are requesting. Thus those amounts are $ 6 / $ 11 / $ 15 Please contact me directly for my snail mail address. I picked up some Memorex Black CD-R blanks and started on the copies for those who have already requested that a Black CD-R be used. Please include your mailing address!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In general, I will regard any funds you send as a gift so that if anyone really can't afford the CDs, please state why that is so. Outside of the US, probably about $ 2 should be sufficient for extra postage. All amounts are in US dollars. Please ask if you are not in the US. No point in converting twice. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Apr 19 20:31:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 286 Computers References: <20030419234743.75792.qmail@web14104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003701c306db$68cd5f00$3c281941@neo.rr.com> Personally I wouldnt mind an old gateway 386 in the mini desktop case + keyboard since I liked the design, and could use a 386 with ps2 type connections. Its not worth the shipping to bother with the generic packard bells and other cheap brand 286's. I dont think many of the 286 computers will ever be collectable. For some reason they are just not popular, maybe because of memory/memory management limitations. The original IBM pc's are still collectable, same with the original compaq and portable. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Bisson" To: Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 7:47 PM Subject: 286 Computers > Dear List, > > What is the concensus on disposal of 286 and 386sx > hardware -- should they be consigned to the bin, or > are there any folks out there collecting them? (or > needing spares?). > > One is a Schneider 286 Tower PC (10Mhz), and the other > is a Philips P3345 (16Mhz). > > Personally, I do not view either as being particularly > noteworth (other than, perhaps, for sentimental > reasons) .. but seems such a shame to turn them into > landfill :-) > > Best regards, > > > Roger > For a better Internet experience > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Apr 19 20:53:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: Compaq EISA Netflex-2 ENET/TR adapter? Message-ID: <005b01c306df$9cc166e0$7f00a8c0@midorirose.net> Well, in the Big Box of Token-Ring Stuff I received a few days ago, there was one EISA TR adapter, a Compaq Netflex-2 ENET/TR. ENET as in Ethernet, TR as in token-ring. That's right, this baby apparently can speak ethernet *and* token-ring! I've been going over Comp^H^H^HHPs site for the last half-hour, and the only thing I've found out about it is that a part number is COMX142151, the TR side is an option that I presubably have installed (as the card has a jumper block on the TR side and not the ENET side), and it was avaliable on just about everything from the pro-whatever-500 through the -4500. Does anyone know where I can find the .cfg file for this? Can it speak ethernet and token-ring at the same time? Is there a manual for it anywhere? Thanks! Bob From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Apr 19 20:56:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: Howdy...new to list and a couple questions. In-Reply-To: <200304192102.h3JL2Oro046770@mailserver1.hushmail.com> References: <200304192102.h3JL2Oro046770@mailserver1.hushmail.com> Message-ID: >Also, where do y'all find most of your stuff? There's always ebay, but >that's usually at a premium. I've thought about notifying some of the >local auction houses to keep an eye out. Well, knowing where roughly where you're located might help in answering that question. For example, if you're in Oregon, let me know, and I can probably come up with some stuff (I'm not interested in shipping, so don't ask about shipping). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From Technoid at 30below.com Sat Apr 19 22:20:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c306eb$d8455710$6300a8c0@benchbox> Boy, I'm so glad that is settled. Now I know how to identify any 5.25" mech just by the color of the faceplate and soldermask on the pcb. Wow. Why didn't I ever think of that? Until this moment, I've been using silly things like model numbers, testing, and something no one has yet mentioned: The step rate marked on the stepper in degrees. Sometime this can yield a clue. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:09 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 5.25" drive identification The beige faceplate on 360K is yellower than on 1.2M 360K has jumpers for drive 0,1,2,3; 1.2M has jumpers for A,B 360K has a screen that is usually white on black; 1.2M has a screen that is white on blue. (If it bluescreens, then the drive is a 1.2M) From donm at cts.com Sat Apr 19 23:24:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: <000801c306eb$d8455710$6300a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Apr 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > Boy, I'm so glad that is settled. Now I know how to identify any 5.25" > mech just by the color of the faceplate and soldermask on the pcb. > > Wow. Why didn't I ever think of that? > > Until this moment, I've been using silly things like model numbers, > testing, and something no one has yet mentioned: Don't you think that is a bit rudimentary? > The step rate marked on the stepper in degrees. Sometime this > can yield a clue. Unfortunately, that is hard to find these days. I cannot recall seeing that on any half-high drive. - don > Regards, > > Jeff > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:09 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 5.25" drive identification > > The beige faceplate on 360K is yellower than on 1.2M > > 360K has jumpers for drive 0,1,2,3; 1.2M has jumpers for A,B > > 360K has a screen that is usually white on black; 1.2M has a screen that > is white on blue. (If it bluescreens, then the drive is a 1.2M) From vcf at siconic.com Sun Apr 20 00:02:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 286 Computers In-Reply-To: <003701c306db$68cd5f00$3c281941@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Apr 2003, TeoZ wrote: > I dont think many of the 286 computers will ever be collectable. For some > reason they are just not popular, maybe because of memory/memory management > limitations. Or because they are just plain boring and uninteresting. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 20 00:27:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: Howdy...new to list and a couple questions. In-Reply-To: <200304192102.h3JL2Oro046770@mailserver1.hushmail.com> References: <200304192102.h3JL2Oro046770@mailserver1.hushmail.com> Message-ID: <20030420052957.GA23266@subatomix.com> On Saturday, April 19, 2003, Mike Shaw wrote: > Also, where do y'all find most of your stuff? There's always ebay, but > that's usually at a premium. I've thought about notifying some of the > local auction houses to keep an eye out. My non-eBay sources have been: - Other enthusiasts (purchase, trade, giveaway) - Scrapyards - University surplus sales - Goodwill computer stores -- Jeffrey Sharp From marvin at rain.org Sun Apr 20 00:32:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 286 Computers References: Message-ID: <3EA23006.E4B4A2C7@rain.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Sat, 19 Apr 2003, TeoZ wrote: > > > I dont think many of the 286 computers will ever be collectable. For some > > reason they are just not popular, maybe because of memory/memory management > > limitations. > > Or because they are just plain boring and uninteresting. Except for the original IBM 6 MHz AT. It is interesting in the same way that the Compaq 386 is; both are first editions. Also, the original 512K IBM AT has the piggyback memory chips which are kind of interesting. Now, add the 386 multiuser system on the 286, ???386 (can't recall the name of the Atlanta, Ga company), and we are beginning to see the PCs get usable. From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Apr 20 01:26:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: <000801c306eb$d8455710$6300a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <000001c30705$dcb6e330$6300a8c0@benchbox> I guess you missed the irony. Yes. It is rudimentary and almost totally useless. If you've handled as many hundreds of drives as I have, you'd know that color, shape, size, door-type, whatever, has no bearing. I mean, you can guess from experience and be right more often than not, but if a customer called me by phone and described a drive, I wouldn't venture to say 40 or 80 track, high or regular density etc without testing the drive myself. Barring a test, a model number would be the only other way I'd swear to a drive's capacity. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey S. Worley Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 11:21 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 5.25" drive identification Boy, I'm so glad that is settled. Now I know how to identify any 5.25" mech just by the color of the faceplate and soldermask on the pcb. Wow. Why didn't I ever think of that? Until this moment, I've been using silly things like model numbers, testing, and something no one has yet mentioned: The step rate marked on the stepper in degrees. Sometime this can yield a clue. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:09 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 5.25" drive identification The beige faceplate on 360K is yellower than on 1.2M 360K has jumpers for drive 0,1,2,3; 1.2M has jumpers for A,B 360K has a screen that is usually white on black; 1.2M has a screen that is white on blue. (If it bluescreens, then the drive is a 1.2M) From cbajpai at attbi.com Sun Apr 20 08:10:00 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? Message-ID: <000001c3073d$c9507a80$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> I had a small accident in my basement a couple of days ago and in cleaning everything out I discovered an old box of 5.25 TRS-80/Heathkit floppies with all my old stuff on them were damp with water. I let them air dry overnight, but some of them still don't spin freely. What can I do to recover these disks - I hate to lose them. What sort of damage does water cause to floppies? Thanks, Chandra From thompson at new.rr.com Sun Apr 20 08:18:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: CMD CDI-4000 In-Reply-To: <3E9A1600.6050408@rogers.com> Message-ID: J1 - DSSI J2 - SCSI J3 - POWER J4 - SERIAL PORT J5 - LCD INTERFACE J6 - ISE OR LCD INTERFACE On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > I was shuffling some of my collected VaxenStuff, and in the 4000 I found > a couple of CMD CDI-4000 DSSI to SCSI bridge cards..... A yahoo and > google search turned up Silicon Image's web site, with a hanging link to > a supposed user's manual... :-{( > > Does anyone know of a real (working) link to a manual?? Failing that, > does anyone know what jumper / ribbon cable does what? > > Thanks..... > -- From mbates at whoopis.com Sun Apr 20 08:32:00 2003 From: mbates at whoopis.com (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? In-Reply-To: <000001c3073d$c9507a80$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <281BDDF0-7334-11D7-B286-003065B9194E@whoopis.com> Bummer! Well, dunno if this will be helpful to you or not, but we had a zillion 3.5" floppies from 1984 (first Mac) and they got immersed in water during Hurricane Andrew in 1992...they didn't work at all, so figuring we had nothing to lose, I slit the labels, popped 'em apart, and removed the disk itself, wiped down both surfaces with Q-tips and rubbing alcohol. Then I took new floppies and disassembled them, tossed the blank media, and put the old disk inside the case...taped back together, and almost all of them worked well enough to recover the data. The real issue seemed to be that the two paper pads swelled and wrinkled, then dried, depositing lint on the disk surface and impeding spin. The disks themselves seemed to weather the water fine. (The Mac itself survived Andrew also -- I still have it. Only hurricane damage was a couple dead keyswitches on the keyboard, I replaced those and all's well -- 11 years later. :) If only the roof had been so durable...) Good luck... -- MB On Sunday, April 20, 2003, at 09:07 AM, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > I had a small accident in my basement a couple of days ago and in > cleaning everything out I discovered an old box of 5.25 TRS-80/Heathkit > floppies with all my old stuff on them were damp with water. I let > them > air dry overnight, but some of them still don't spin freely. > > What can I do to recover these disks - I hate to lose them. What sort > of > damage does water cause to floppies? > > Thanks, > Chandra From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Apr 20 09:43:00 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 20 Apr 2003 09:07:24 EDT." <000001c3073d$c9507a80$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <200304201427.PAA07537@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Chandra Bajpai" said: > I had a small accident in my basement a couple of days ago and in > cleaning everything out I discovered an old box of 5.25 TRS-80/Heathkit > floppies with all my old stuff on them were damp with water. I let them > air dry overnight, but some of them still don't spin freely. > > What can I do to recover these disks - I hate to lose them. What sort of > damage does water cause to floppies? I had something similar happen many years ago. I removed damaged disks from their sleeves, washed and dried them, and put each in turn into a clean new sleeve which I'd cut open and removed the disk from. This let me copy all the data off the damaged disks. Of course all the disks were then scrap, but the data was saved onto new disks. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Apr 20 10:02:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? References: <200304201427.PAA07537@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <000a01c3074c$ab4f0f60$3c281941@neo.rr.com> I think the 5.25 floppies are far more forgiving to abuse then the newer higher density disks. I noticed even under normal use 3.5 HD disk will lose some data after 8 yrs while my older C64 era 5.25's still work fine copy protection and all. I have also recovered disks that have been dropped in the snow/slush over a weekend and they worked fine once they dried out. If they have dirt/sand you have to clean the media before you even try to run them or they will get scratched. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Barr" To: Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 10:27 AM Subject: Re: help! how to recover water logged floppies? > > I had something similar happen many years ago. I removed damaged disks > from their sleeves, washed and dried them, and put each in turn into > a clean new sleeve which I'd cut open and removed the disk from. > This let me copy all the data off the damaged disks. Of course all the > disks were then scrap, but the data was saved onto new disks. > > -- > Cheers, > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > > The future was never like this! From xtguy at mindspring.com Sun Apr 20 10:45:00 2003 From: xtguy at mindspring.com (xtguy@mindspring.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: need CP/M boot disks Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20030420094324.00da9b00@mindspring.com> I was told that Don Maslin can help me with boot disks for some old CP/M computers. I need boot disks for the following: Morrow Micro Decision MD 1 Epson QX-10 several different Kaypro models I tried to make a boot disk for the Morrow using 22disk and the 'STDCPM22' file at 'www.retroarchive.org'. 22disk did not have a file format for the Morrow MD 1, so I used the format for the Morrow MD 2. (As far as I have been able to find out, the MD1 had full height floppy disk drives and the MD2 had half-height drives, but they were the same capacity). When I tried to use the floppy to boot the computer, it would spin for about 15 seconds, then the computer would reboot. I was making the boot disk on a computer which had a 360K floppy drive. Thanks! xtguy From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Apr 20 11:32:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? In-Reply-To: <000001c3073d$c9507a80$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <012d01c3075a$280e9040$947ba8c0@piii933> The suggestion to remove the disks from the damaged sleeves, clean the media carefully and then place them in a "new" sleeve for data recovery is good. I did the same with some PC disks a dozen years ago or more and had no difficulties with any of the media. When I was done I tried a little experiment and placed the media alone in the drive without a sleeve. It worked that was as well, although I wouldn't recommend it for more then entertainment value. I can imagine the flex on the disk isn't good for it. . . Good luck! -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 6:07 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? I had a small accident in my basement a couple of days ago and in cleaning everything out I discovered an old box of 5.25 TRS-80/Heathkit floppies with all my old stuff on them were damp with water. I let them air dry overnight, but some of them still don't spin freely. What can I do to recover these disks - I hate to lose them. What sort of damage does water cause to floppies? Thanks, Chandra From cbajpai at attbi.com Sun Apr 20 12:58:00 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? In-Reply-To: <012d01c3075a$280e9040$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <000001c30766$1de7e060$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> How do you clean the media itself? Will a clean paper towel work or is some other procedure required? Thanks, Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Erik S. Klein Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 12:30 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: help! how to recover water logged floppies? The suggestion to remove the disks from the damaged sleeves, clean the media carefully and then place them in a "new" sleeve for data recovery is good. I did the same with some PC disks a dozen years ago or more and had no difficulties with any of the media. When I was done I tried a little experiment and placed the media alone in the drive without a sleeve. It worked that was as well, although I wouldn't recommend it for more then entertainment value. I can imagine the flex on the disk isn't good for it. . . Good luck! -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 6:07 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? I had a small accident in my basement a couple of days ago and in cleaning everything out I discovered an old box of 5.25 TRS-80/Heathkit floppies with all my old stuff on them were damp with water. I let them air dry overnight, but some of them still don't spin freely. What can I do to recover these disks - I hate to lose them. What sort of damage does water cause to floppies? Thanks, Chandra From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Apr 20 13:23:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: Game console up to $200 Message-ID: <014801c30769$a1f05ab0$510add40@oemcomputer> A Magnavox Odyssey from 1972 is up to $200 with a few hours left to bid. I would like to have one but not at these prices. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 20 13:28:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 19, 3 06:08:30 pm Message-ID: > The beige faceplate on 360K is yellower than on 1.2M :-) Only because the 360K drive is likely to be older... > > 360K has jumpers for drive 0,1,2,3; 1.2M has jumpers for A,B Nonsense!. I've seen plenty of 1.2M drives with 4 drive select jumpers... > > 360K has a screen that is usually white on black; 1.2M has a screen that > is white on blue. (If it bluescreens, then the drive is a 1.2M) If my PERQ ever bluescreens I'll eat a PDP11 (I have a 5.25" 1.2Mbyte drive hooked up to the PERQ as a little hack. The PERQ, of course, has a white monochrome monitor). That's quite apart from the fact that PC/AT machines (the most common place to find 1.2M drives) most certainly support MDA and CGA cards... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 20 13:31:08 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? In-Reply-To: <000001c3073d$c9507a80$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> from "Chandra Bajpai" at Apr 20, 3 09:07:24 am Message-ID: > I had a small accident in my basement a couple of days ago and in > cleaning everything out I discovered an old box of 5.25 TRS-80/Heathkit > floppies with all my old stuff on them were damp with water. I let them > air dry overnight, but some of them still don't spin freely. > > What can I do to recover these disks - I hate to lose them. What sort of The best way to do it is to _carefully_ slit open the jacket along one side and extract the media. Clean that carefully (with propan-2-ol, for example), and slip it into a slit-open jacket obtained from a disk that's not waterlogged. Of course make sure you get the media in the right way up. Once you've done this, make a backup of the disk, of course. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 20 13:32:57 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: <000801c306eb$d8455710$6300a8c0@benchbox> from "Jeffrey S. Worley" at Apr 19, 3 11:20:46 pm Message-ID: > Until this moment, I've been using silly things like model numbers, > testing, and something no one has yet mentioned: The method I use is to hook the drive up to an exerciser and check for (a) the number of head steps between the limits (40 -> 360K, 80 -> possible 1.2M, but maybe a standard data rate only drive, giving 720K on a pC). And (b) the index timing -- can the thing give 6 index pulses per second (360rpm) or not? I find this to be the most reliable way of distinguishing between different drives... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 20 13:34:40 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? In-Reply-To: <012d01c3075a$280e9040$947ba8c0@piii933> from "Erik S. Klein" at Apr 20, 3 09:30:29 am Message-ID: > When I was done I tried a little experiment and placed the media alone > in the drive without a sleeve. It worked that was as well, although I This is commonly called 'mounting a naked floppy' :-). I've done it too. It's easiest if you have the drive out of its case, so you can carefully feed the disk in and centre it over the spindle. > wouldn't recommend it for more then entertainment value. I can imagine > the flex on the disk isn't good for it. . . Well, it works well enough for you to make a backup of the disk, which is all I'd want to do with any potentially damaged media.... -tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Apr 20 13:37:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: Fw: Game console up to $200 Message-ID: <016401c3076a$f37a1d20$510add40@oemcomputer> Forgot to put the url http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3019149119 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctech@classiccmp" Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 1:21 PM Subject: Game console up to $200 > A Magnavox Odyssey from 1972 is up to $200 with a few hours left to bid. I > would like to have one but not at these prices. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Apr 20 13:39:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? In-Reply-To: <000001c30766$1de7e060$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <013801c3076b$c6295b00$947ba8c0@piii933> When I did this all of the disk jackets were still wet. I used a clean, lint free drying cloth from my collection of car-care products (I don't remember what they were called, exactly, but they are basically a synthetic lint-free chamois) and blotted each disk carefully. Once they were blotted as thoroughly as possible I let them air dry for an hour or two (as I extracted and removed the other wet media) and then checked for water spots. I buffed those very gently with the same cloth which was then slightly damp. I then slid the media into a fresh jacket and everything was fine to do a quick disk copy. If I remember correctly I used one of the more error tolerant aftermarket disk copy programs (CopyIIPC or something like it) just in case. Once I was done with the whole pile I'm pretty sure I used a head cleaner to make sure I didn't damage the drive. Of course, I then put the naked media in that same drive so how careful was I really? :) Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 10:56 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: help! how to recover water logged floppies? How do you clean the media itself? Will a clean paper towel work or is some other procedure required? Thanks, Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Erik S. Klein Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 12:30 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: help! how to recover water logged floppies? The suggestion to remove the disks from the damaged sleeves, clean the media carefully and then place them in a "new" sleeve for data recovery is good. I did the same with some PC disks a dozen years ago or more and had no difficulties with any of the media. When I was done I tried a little experiment and placed the media alone in the drive without a sleeve. It worked that was as well, although I wouldn't recommend it for more then entertainment value. I can imagine the flex on the disk isn't good for it. . . Good luck! -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 6:07 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? I had a small accident in my basement a couple of days ago and in cleaning everything out I discovered an old box of 5.25 TRS-80/Heathkit floppies with all my old stuff on them were damp with water. I let them air dry overnight, but some of them still don't spin freely. What can I do to recover these disks - I hate to lose them. What sort of damage does water cause to floppies? Thanks, Chandra From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Apr 20 13:53:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? In-Reply-To: <013801c3076b$c6295b00$947ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <000801c3076e$2412e180$6300a8c0@benchbox> I've used the same methods to recover damaged floppies. If a sleeve is 'bent' and won't let a disk spin freely within it, this is the way to go. A little tip for 5.25" and 8" disks that fail at spots is to put a 'tab' of tape at the exposed end of the disk so that is protrudes through the drive's face. Read the sectors that are giving you trouble over and over using a very tolerant and configurable copy program, or write your own little sector getter program. Tug on the tape off and on with different amounts of force as the machine is reading the sector in question. Keep this up til' you give up or the sector is read. What this does is both vary the drive's rotational speed whilst reading as well as warping the disk a teensy bit thus changing the bearing on the head(s) a teensy bit. I've also used this method to produce 'bad' sectors to duplicate simple copy protection schemes. Write a program that repeatedly writes and reads the sector in question. When the just-written sector is not readable without tugging on the disk again, you are in business for a bad sector. It really works. Regards, jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Erik S. Klein Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 2:37 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: help! how to recover water logged floppies? When I did this all of the disk jackets were still wet. I used a clean, lint free drying cloth from my collection of car-care products (I don't remember what they were called, exactly, but they are basically a synthetic lint-free chamois) and blotted each disk carefully. Once they were blotted as thoroughly as possible I let them air dry for an hour or two (as I extracted and removed the other wet media) and then checked for water spots. I buffed those very gently with the same cloth which was then slightly damp. I then slid the media into a fresh jacket and everything was fine to do a quick disk copy. If I remember correctly I used one of the more error tolerant aftermarket disk copy programs (CopyIIPC or something like it) just in case. Once I was done with the whole pile I'm pretty sure I used a head cleaner to make sure I didn't damage the drive. Of course, I then put the naked media in that same drive so how careful was I really? :) Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 10:56 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: help! how to recover water logged floppies? How do you clean the media itself? Will a clean paper towel work or is some other procedure required? Thanks, Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Erik S. Klein Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 12:30 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: help! how to recover water logged floppies? The suggestion to remove the disks from the damaged sleeves, clean the media carefully and then place them in a "new" sleeve for data recovery is good. I did the same with some PC disks a dozen years ago or more and had no difficulties with any of the media. When I was done I tried a little experiment and placed the media alone in the drive without a sleeve. It worked that was as well, although I wouldn't recommend it for more then entertainment value. I can imagine the flex on the disk isn't good for it. . . Good luck! -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 6:07 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? I had a small accident in my basement a couple of days ago and in cleaning everything out I discovered an old box of 5.25 TRS-80/Heathkit floppies with all my old stuff on them were damp with water. I let them air dry overnight, but some of them still don't spin freely. What can I do to recover these disks - I hate to lose them. What sort of damage does water cause to floppies? Thanks, Chandra From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 20 13:55:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: Odessey 1 (was Re: Fw: Game console up to $200) In-Reply-To: <016401c3076a$f37a1d20$510add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20030420185202.807.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > Forgot to put the url > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3019149119 . . . > > A Magnavox Odyssey from 1972 is up to $200 with a few hours left to > > bid. I would like to have one but not at these prices. I've had one these since I was a kid, but I've never seen the rifle or the boxed games before. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 20 14:06:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > The method I use is to hook the drive up to an exerciser and check for > . . . > I find this to be the most reliable way of distinguishing between > different drives... I used to think that checking model number was reliable identification. Until I encountered a drive labelled TM 100-4, that turned out to be a 100-4M. It actually was a serendipitous occurence, since I had been having trouble finding any 100 TPI drives. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Apr 20 14:19:00 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 20 Apr 2003 13:56:04 EDT." <000001c30766$1de7e060$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <200304201819.TAA11343@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Chandra Bajpai" said: Re cleaning water damaged disks: > How do you clean the media itself? Will a clean paper towel work or is > some other procedure required? I think I just washed the disks in clean water to remove any marks and hung them up to air dry. Paper towels might be a little abrasive, they are made of wood. Soft cotton would probably be better if any rubbing is needed. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From cb at mythtech.net Sun Apr 20 14:38:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: Game console up to $200 Message-ID: >A Magnavox Odyssey from 1972 is up to $200 with a few hours left to bid. I >would like to have one but not at these prices. I have one of these, but not complete. Its missing most of the little stuff like chips, cards, cash. Some overlays are missing, and I am pretty sure the rifle is long since destroyed. I'm also not positive if the unit itself works or not. Its one of the things on my list to install in my "retro" basement when I finally find a house I can afford. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Sun Apr 20 14:44:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: Odessey 1 (was Re: Fw: Game console up to $200) Message-ID: >I've had one these since I was a kid, but I've never seen the rifle >or the boxed games before. I've never seen boxed games, but then A: I was pretty young when I used to play with mine, (and I believe it predates me in existance), and B: I have a feeling mine was never obtained via the market, but rather as a test item directly from Magnavox, so it may never have been complete with market packaging (I know I have a white labeled box that the system and controllers and stuff goes in, I'm assuming that was standard packaging). As for the rifle. I don't remember everything it was used for, but I know I LOVED the haunted house game that used it. There was a haunted house overlay, and basically "ghosts" appeared at various windows and doors and you had to shoot them. (IIRC, the ghosts were nothing more than white blocks, but hey, for early 70's that kicked ass!) -chris From musicman at satcom.whit.org Sun Apr 20 15:35:01 2003 From: musicman at satcom.whit.org (Musicman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #476 - 3 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030420170001.41799.76052.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: I had an accident involving 2 liters of coke and two dozen of my prize 5 1/4" floppies. I carefully slit the top (away from the access hole) and rinsed them in a sink of dishwater, then rinsed and let dry completely, then slit new disks, remove the new media disk and put the old (now cleaned) media into the new sleeve, and taped it with clear tape. Then immediately copied the disks to good new disks...They worked like a champ and I recovered everything.... Hope this helps -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of cctech-request@classiccmp.org Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 11:00 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #476 - 3 msgs Send cctech mailing list submissions to cctech@classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctech-request@classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctech-admin@classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. 286 Computers (=?iso-8859-1?q?Roger=20Bisson?=) 2. Re: help! how to recover water logged floppies? (Marion Bates) 3. need CP/M boot disks (xtguy@mindspring.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 00:47:43 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Roger=20Bisson?= Subject: 286 Computers To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Dear List, What is the concensus on disposal of 286 and 386sx hardware -- should they be consigned to the bin, or are there any folks out there collecting them? (or needing spares?). One is a Schneider 286 Tower PC (10Mhz), and the other is a Philips P3345 (16Mhz). Personally, I do not view either as being particularly noteworth (other than, perhaps, for sentimental reasons) .. but seems such a shame to turn them into landfill :-) Best regards, Roger For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 09:29:47 -0400 Subject: Re: help! how to recover water logged floppies? From: Marion Bates To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Bummer! Well, dunno if this will be helpful to you or not, but we had a zillion 3.5" floppies from 1984 (first Mac) and they got immersed in water during Hurricane Andrew in 1992...they didn't work at all, so figuring we had nothing to lose, I slit the labels, popped 'em apart, and removed the disk itself, wiped down both surfaces with Q-tips and rubbing alcohol. Then I took new floppies and disassembled them, tossed the blank media, and put the old disk inside the case...taped back together, and almost all of them worked well enough to recover the data. The real issue seemed to be that the two paper pads swelled and wrinkled, then dried, depositing lint on the disk surface and impeding spin. The disks themselves seemed to weather the water fine. (The Mac itself survived Andrew also -- I still have it. Only hurricane damage was a couple dead keyswitches on the keyboard, I replaced those and all's well -- 11 years later. :) If only the roof had been so durable...) Good luck... -- MB On Sunday, April 20, 2003, at 09:07 AM, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > I had a small accident in my basement a couple of days ago and in > cleaning everything out I discovered an old box of 5.25 TRS-80/Heathkit > floppies with all my old stuff on them were damp with water. I let > them > air dry overnight, but some of them still don't spin freely. > > What can I do to recover these disks - I hate to lose them. What sort > of > damage does water cause to floppies? > > Thanks, > Chandra --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 09:43:24 -0600 To: cctech@classiccmp.org From: xtguy@mindspring.com Subject: need CP/M boot disks Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org I was told that Don Maslin can help me with boot disks for some old CP/M computers. I need boot disks for the following: Morrow Micro Decision MD 1 Epson QX-10 several different Kaypro models I tried to make a boot disk for the Morrow using 22disk and the 'STDCPM22' file at 'www.retroarchive.org'. 22disk did not have a file format for the Morrow MD 1, so I used the format for the Morrow MD 2. (As far as I have been able to find out, the MD1 had full height floppy disk drives and the MD2 had half-height drives, but they were the same capacity). When I tried to use the floppy to boot the computer, it would spin for about 15 seconds, then the computer would reboot. I was making the boot disk on a computer which had a 360K floppy drive. Thanks! xtguy End of cctech Digest From kth at srv.net Sun Apr 20 15:39:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? References: Message-ID: <3EA30C07.6080404@srv.net> Tony Duell wrote: >>When I was done I tried a little experiment and placed the media alone >>in the drive without a sleeve. It worked that was as well, although I >> >> > >This is commonly called 'mounting a naked floppy' :-). I've done it too. >It's easiest if you have the drive out of its case, so you can carefully >feed the disk in and centre it over the spindle. > > > >>wouldn't recommend it for more then entertainment value. I can imagine >>the flex on the disk isn't good for it. . . >> >> > >Well, it works well enough for you to make a backup of the disk, which is >all I'd want to do with any potentially damaged media.... > > It's much easier to deal with them in a sleeve. You only need to sacrifice one floppy for the sleeve, as you can reuse it for all the floppies stripped of their skins. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Apr 20 16:08:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: Game console up to $200 In-Reply-To: <014801c30769$a1f05ab0$510add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Keys wrote: > A Magnavox Odyssey from 1972 is up to $200 with a few hours left to bid. I > would like to have one but not at these prices. I assume you mean eBay. They come up for auction there every week (it is not rare to see multiple units listed simulateously), and it is rare when one sells for less than $125. Considering how many of them are out there (tens of thousands based on the original sales figures) I don't think they're worth much more than that as long as they are complete, including all the game pieces, cards, chips, and overlays, and the box is in decent condition. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Apr 20 16:12:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? In-Reply-To: <000801c3076e$2412e180$6300a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > I've also used this method to produce 'bad' sectors to duplicate simple > copy protection schemes. Write a program that repeatedly writes and > reads the sector in question. When the just-written sector is not > readable without tugging on the disk again, you are in business for a > bad sector. It really works. It's generally easier to just find and remove the copy protection ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Apr 20 16:17:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: Odessey 1 (was Re: Fw: Game console up to $200) In-Reply-To: <20030420185202.807.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > A Magnavox Odyssey from 1972 is up to $200 with a few hours left to > > > bid. I would like to have one but not at these prices. > > I've had one these since I was a kid, but I've never seen the rifle > or the boxed games before. Those are not too uncommon on eBay either. They do come up from time to time. I found one in the wild (at a thrift store) a few years ago and bought it, but it didn't have the carthridge. I bought one on eBay last year and spent entirely way too much money on it (something like $75) but it included the carthridge, the overlays, and the box was nice. The boxed games also come up from time to time (more than the rifle does). They are especially hard to get because very few were sold due to poor marketing. People bid them up to sometimes outrageous levels on eBay, but if you're patient you can snap them up at bargain prices one at a time (2 down, 5 to go). The coolest Odyssey gadget I have is a floaty pen that reads "Magnavox Color TV with Built-In Odyssey". Now, I've spoken with Ralph Baer (the inventor of the Odyssey) and he never mentioned that one of these was ever built (though it was his idea from the start). So it was really interesting to find this pen. It doesn't write but the floaty still works, and it's way cool. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 20 16:25:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 20, 3 12:04:31 pm Message-ID: > I used to think that checking model number was reliable identification. > Until I encountered a drive labelled TM 100-4, that turned out to be a > 100-4M. It actually was a serendipitous occurence, since I had been > having trouble finding any 100 TPI drives. YEs. While the model number is a good guide, it's not always reliable. Particularly not when some mad hacker (like me) has been swapping bits between drives to configure the unit he needs. I might well move an 80 cylinder head and stepper assembly onto a chasssis that once held a 40 cylinder unit, and then not change the model number label. The onyl way to be sure is to test the drive! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 20 16:26:48 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? In-Reply-To: <3EA30C07.6080404@srv.net> from "Kevin Handy" at Apr 20, 3 03:07:19 pm Message-ID: [Mounting a naked floppy] > It's much easier to deal with them in a sleeve. The last time I had to do this, it was to recover a student's disk that had been seriously crushed between pages of a book in his backpack. I didn't happen to have a spare 5.25" disk with me either, so I couldn't easily make a sleeve. On the other hand, I could upload the files (once recovered) onto a larger machine until said student had some new media to store them on. > > You only need to sacrifice one floppy for the sleeve, as you can > reuse it for all the floppies stripped of their skins. Sure... -tony From acme at ao.net Sun Apr 20 17:09:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 6850 IC needed Message-ID: <200304202207.h3KM7bue025366@eola.ao.net> I have an old floppy disk drive interface with a dead MC6850P IC in it. Anyone know of a source for these? MCM, Jameco, and Digikey don't list them anymore :-( TIA -- Glen 0/0 From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Sun Apr 20 18:37:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 6850 IC needed In-Reply-To: <200304202207.h3KM7bue025366@eola.ao.net> References: <200304202207.h3KM7bue025366@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <1050881598.13617.62.camel@azure.subsolar.com> You fixing an OSI system? Paul On Sun, 2003-04-20 at 17:07, acme@ao.net wrote: > I have an old floppy disk drive interface with a dead MC6850P IC in it. > > Anyone know of a source for these? MCM, Jameco, and Digikey don't list > them anymore :-( > > TIA -- > > Glen > 0/0 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 20 19:50:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 6850 IC needed In-Reply-To: <200304202207.h3KM7bue025366@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <20030421004836.99127.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- acme@ao.net wrote: > I have an old floppy disk drive interface with a dead MC6850P IC in it. > > Anyone know of a source for these? MCM, Jameco, and Digikey don't list > them anymore :-( B.G. Micro - $1.75 http://www.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid=08246180555555562416016975&prodid=ICS6850&page=1&cri=6850&stype=3 I've seen these in use with Commdore peripherals like the D9060/D9090 hard drives. What are you restoring? -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From uban at ubanproductions.com Sun Apr 20 20:17:01 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: SMD drive cables? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030420201334.01991c00@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hello, Does anyone have a set of SMD drive cables that they would be willing to part with? I am looking for something that is at least 8' long, or maybe even a bit longer. They typically consist of a 60 pin twisted pair ribbon (or bundle) cable and a 26 pin ribbon cable. --tnx --tom From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Apr 20 20:20:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: Fw: [jdvicto@med.cornell.edu: need a home for a pdp-11 and associated...] Message-ID: <01a401c307a4$1afa5430$7f00a8c0@midorirose.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 7:06 PM Subject: [rescue] [jdvicto@med.cornell.edu: need a home for a pdp-11 and associated...] > Please contact him directly. Can someone also forward this to classiccmp? > > Bill > > ----- Forwarded message from "Jonathan D. Victor" ----- > > Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:47:48 -0400 > To: mrbill > From: "Jonathan D. Victor" > Subject: need a home for a pdp-11 and associated... > Cc: jdvicto@med.cornell.edu > > Hello! > > I found your address on http://www.pdp11.org/, and indeed, I have a PDP-11 > and related material that now needs a new home. The material (including > photos) is described on a web page, > http://www-users.med.cornell.edu/~jdvicto/nycpdp93.html. > > Ideally, I would like to sell it, but it is also important to me that it > finds a good home (so I am not going the ebay route). > > Please let me know if you have any interest, or, if you have suggestions > for how I should proceed. > > Thank you very much. > > > Jonathan Victor > > Jonathan D. Victor mailto:jdvicto@med.cornell.edu > > Professor, Neurology and Neuroscience (212) 746 2343 (office) > Weill Medical College of Cornell University (212) 746 6521 (lab) > 1300 York Avenue, New York, NY 10021 (212) 746 8984 (fax) > > personal: http://www-users.med.cornell.edu/~jdvicto/jdvonweb.html > lab : http://www-users.med.cornell.edu/~jdvicto/labonweb.html > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > bill bradford > mrbill > austin, texas > _______________________________________________ > rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue From uban at ubanproductions.com Sun Apr 20 21:08:01 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: printronix P9012 maintenance manual ? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030420210511.019ffe50@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hello, Does anyone have a printronix P9012 maintenance manual? A friend just acquired one of these and it isn't fully functional, so he would like to find some schematics and such to attempt to fix it. --tnx --tom From donm at cts.com Sun Apr 20 21:11:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: <000001c30705$dcb6e330$6300a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > I guess you missed the irony. I think it may have been mutual, Jeff. - don > Yes. It is rudimentary and almost totally useless. If you've handled > as many hundreds of drives as I have, you'd know that color, shape, > size, door-type, whatever, has no bearing. > > I mean, you can guess from experience and be right more often than not, > but if a customer called me by phone and described a drive, I wouldn't > venture to say 40 or 80 track, high or regular density etc without > testing the drive myself. Barring a test, a model number would be the > only other way I'd swear to a drive's capacity. > > Regards, > > Jeff > From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Apr 20 22:07:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:08 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? In-Reply-To: <000001c3073d$c9507a80$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <000001c3073d$c9507a80$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <20030421033605.GC87143@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Chandra Bajpai, from writings of Sun, Apr 20, 2003 at 09:07:24AM -0400: > I had a small accident in my basement a couple of days ago and in > cleaning everything out I discovered an old box of 5.25 TRS-80/Heathkit > floppies with all my old stuff on them were damp with water. I let them > air dry overnight, but some of them still don't spin freely. Did you open the jackets to allow them to dry, and attempt to clean the floppies? If not, think of all of the contaminants that may have been in the water (if it was a water leak or flooding, etc.). > What can I do to recover these disks - I hate to lose them. What sort of > damage does water cause to floppies? In some cases, none. E.g., cleaning dirty floppy media with distilled water and putting them in new jackets. Of course, if they don't dry, the dreaded 'm' word (mildew) can set in. Perhaps you just need to disassemble the floppies, give them a good cleaning with distilled water, then hang them by the holes in a reasonably warm location that's well-lit. ventilated and dust-free. Perhaps clean the jackets as well, or, better yet, replace them. Good luck! -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From melamy at earthlink.net Sun Apr 20 23:35:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: 6850 IC needed Message-ID: <200403110.77577@webbox.com> http://www.bgmicro.com has them... best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: acme@ao.net >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 4/20/03 2:07:37 PM > I have an old floppy disk drive interface with a dead MC6850P IC in it. > >Anyone know of a source for these? MCM, Jameco, and Digikey don't list >them anymore :-( > >TIA -- > >Glen >0/0 From donm at cts.com Sun Apr 20 23:38:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: need CP/M boot disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20030420094324.00da9b00@mindspring.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 xtguy@mindspring.com wrote: > I was told that Don Maslin can help me with boot disks for some old CP/M > computers. I need boot disks for the following: > > Morrow Micro Decision MD 1 > Epson QX-10 > several different Kaypro models > > I tried to make a boot disk for the Morrow using 22disk and the 'STDCPM22' > file at 'www.retroarchive.org'. 22disk did not have a file format for the > Morrow MD 1, so I used the format for the Morrow MD 2. (As far as I have > been able to find out, the MD1 had full height floppy disk drives and the > MD2 had half-height drives, but they were the same capacity). When I tried > to use the floppy to boot the computer, it would spin for about 15 seconds, > then the computer would reboot. The format for MD-1 and MD-2 are the same. The major difference between the machines is that the -1 is a single drive machine while the -2 has - surprise - two! His 'STDCPM22' of course would not work as it is not tailored to the Morrow hardware, and even had it been, 22Disk will not normally write a boot track. > I was making the boot disk on a computer which had a 360K floppy drive. > > Thanks! > > xtguy I have contacted Kevin off-list and hope to get him up and running soon. - don From harrywhake at sbcglobal.net Mon Apr 21 01:04:01 2003 From: harrywhake at sbcglobal.net (harrywhake) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Power Supply FRU06H2973 Message-ID: <001401c306d9$008b39a0$db09fea9@pacbell.net> I could sure use that Power supply here in Bakersfield,Ca, Please advise./hwh From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Mon Apr 21 01:06:07 2003 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Compaq EISA Netflex-2 ENET/TR adapter? In-Reply-To: <005b01c306df$9cc166e0$7f00a8c0@midorirose.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030420092932.024165c0@mail.n.ml.org> Rob, I own one of these things. It CANNOT speak both. Ethernet was achieved through setting a jumper/switch (different on model) and making sure the circuit block for Token Ring was not installed. Token Ring gets enabled (and Ethernet disabled) via putting in the circuit block and setting the switch/jumper. Compaq does have drivers for these under ProLiant 2000 Server on their site and such if you look for drivers by system model. I believe it was Compaq supported for Novell 3.x and OS/2 and I think DOS. I do know various flavors of Linux support it too. It was Compaq's way of creating flexibility and being cheap at the same time (which is something you never do with a server). -John Boffemmyer IV At 09:53 PM 4/19/2003, you wrote: >Well, in the Big Box of Token-Ring Stuff I received a few days ago, there >was one EISA TR adapter, a Compaq Netflex-2 ENET/TR. ENET as in Ethernet, >TR as in token-ring. That's right, this baby apparently can speak ethernet >*and* token-ring! I've been going over Comp^H^H^HHPs site for the last >half-hour, and the only thing I've found out about it is that a part number >is COMX142151, the TR side is an option that I presubably have installed (as >the card has a jumper block on the TR side and not the ENET side), and it >was avaliable on just about everything from the pro-whatever-500 through >the -4500. Does anyone know where I can find the .cfg file for this? Can >it speak ethernet and token-ring at the same time? Is there a manual for it >anywhere? > >Thanks! > >Bob ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From yarnhook at charter.net Mon Apr 21 01:07:46 2003 From: yarnhook at charter.net (MIchelle Zygo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: B&C microsystems UP200 software Message-ID: <000801c30764$392361d0$6601a8c0@yourwg5n33dutv> I am in need of software for the UP200 programmer. LMK if you have it and could send me a copy via email. Just picked up a unit and want to get programming. Thanks, Stan From xdale at yahoo.com Mon Apr 21 01:09:54 2003 From: xdale at yahoo.com (Xdale) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: TrantorMini SCSI Epp Message-ID: <20030420193033.101.qmail@web11502.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Fred: You Wrote:Trantor was bought out by Adaptec. You might try them. There were three models that I'm aware of: T338 (rectangular thin box) that hangs off of the parallel port, or screw it on so that it gets enough leverage to break the connector. The black labelled earlier sub-model is significantly less reliablke than the later blue labelled one. Also marketed briefly through NEC (they once had the drivers on the web) T348 cable based model. T358 cable based model with ECP/EPP support NONE of them are very reliable; but it's a handy way to hook things up to laptops, etc that don't have provision for a "real" SCSI controller. Would you like me to snail mail a copy of the disk? Or would you prefer e-mail attachment? COULD YOU KINDLY SEND ME THAT DRIVER AS AN ATTACHMENT IN REPLYIN TO THIS EMAIL? THANKS Doug Crosdale The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Mon Apr 21 01:11:34 2003 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: 6850 IC needed In-Reply-To: <200304202207.h3KM7bue025366@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030420203741.00a95f78@mail.n.ml.org> Glen: try Newark Electronics or Allied Electronics. Both are very comprehensive, much more so than Jameco. -John At 06:07 PM 4/20/2003, you wrote: >I have an old floppy disk drive interface with a dead MC6850P IC in it. > >Anyone know of a source for these? MCM, Jameco, and Digikey don't list >them anymore :-( > >TIA -- > >Glen >0/0 ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Apr 21 03:02:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: help! how to recover water logged floppies? Message-ID: <99.3680f746.2bd4fefb@aol.com> How do you clean the media itself? Will a clean paper towel work or is > > some other procedure required? > > After removing the magnetic disk I use denatured ethyl alcohol and a soft lintless cotton cloth to wipe it down. Paper towns are too abrasive, use soft cotton, preferably lintless. Work on top of a cotton cloth also. If there is dirt or other abrasives I would rinse this off with water and do the final drying with the alcohol wipe. I have used a head cleaning diskette jacket as a holder for the truly floppy disk at this point. I do not think you can successfully dry out a wet jacket very well, better to discard it. Paxton Astoria, OR From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 21 07:56:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: B&C microsystems UP200 software In-Reply-To: <000801c30764$392361d0$6601a8c0@yourwg5n33dutv> Message-ID: <20030421125442.27978.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- MIchelle Zygo wrote: > I am in need of software for the UP200 programmer. LMK if you have it and > could send me a copy via email. Just picked up a unit and want to get > programming. I don't have one that old. I have a B&C Microsystems model UP600A. I think I have the second-to-newest software for it. I have found the UP600A unreliable in 386 and 486 computers. I suspect it is software related, not hardware related (the hardware is a B&C proprietary parallel card (that send power down the same cable as data) attached to a large box with a multi-channel D-to-A and a 40-pin ZIF socket - there are dozens of chips in the programmer box itself). I used to have mine in a Commodore Colt; now it's in the base station of a Compaq SLT/286. I don't know where you could find software for your UP200. I searched long and hard for software for my UP600A when my Colt died. In the end, I was able to recover the data from its XT-IDE drive, and that's what's on the SLT/286. Good Luck, -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Apr 21 08:30:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Installation Manual for Camintonn CMV-254 Message-ID: <3EA3F215.B76EBA50@compsys.to> Does anyone know where I can find the installation manual for the Camintonn CMV-254 memory board. This is a Qbus Dual board with 1 MByte of memory. Alternatively, I am actually looking for the CMV-5000 which is very similar, except that it has a battery backup option along with EDC capability. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 21 10:37:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Seeking Lotus 1-2-3 or Symphony Developer Toolkit from 1986 ($$$) Message-ID: I'm looking for the Lotus 1-2-3 or Symphony Developer Toolkit from the 1986 timeframe. If you have it, please contact me. There is a $$$ reward for finding this. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From roger161uk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 21 11:21:00 2003 From: roger161uk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Roger=20Bisson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: need CP/M boot disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20030420094324.00da9b00@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20030421161920.82929.qmail@web14101.mail.yahoo.com> I have an original set of Epson QX-10 boot disks (plus original owners manual) - although I was intending to scan the manual, I haven't had an opportunity to do so. I also do not have a QX-10 or any suitable equipment to make copies of the disks available through archives such as http://www.retroarchive.org. If there is anybody with the time, and inclination to preserve and make the disks and available to enthusiasts online ... please contact me. Best regards, Roger ------- Roger Bisson, Disky.com, 6 & 8 Sand Street, St. Helier, Jersey, Channel Islands http://www.disky.com --- xtguy@mindspring.com wrote: > I was told that Don Maslin can help me with boot > disks for some old CP/M > computers. I need boot disks for the following: > > Morrow Micro Decision MD 1 > Epson QX-10 > several different Kaypro models > > I tried to make a boot disk for the Morrow using > 22disk and the 'STDCPM22' > file at 'www.retroarchive.org'. 22disk did not have > a file format for the > Morrow MD 1, so I used the format for the Morrow MD > 2. (As far as I have > been able to find out, the MD1 had full height > floppy disk drives and the > MD2 had half-height drives, but they were the same > capacity). When I tried > to use the floppy to boot the computer, it would > spin for about 15 seconds, > then the computer would reboot. > > I was making the boot disk on a computer which had a > 360K floppy drive. > > Thanks! > > xtguy For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer From Technoid at 30below.com Mon Apr 21 12:05:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c30828$25d27750$6300a8c0@benchbox> Ah! Humor. I had to look it up in Miriam Webster's to be sure. Pardon my density. Pun intendted. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Don Maslin Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 10:07 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 5.25" drive identification On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > I guess you missed the irony. I think it may have been mutual, Jeff. - don > Yes. It is rudimentary and almost totally useless. If you've handled > as many hundreds of drives as I have, you'd know that color, shape, > size, door-type, whatever, has no bearing. > > I mean, you can guess from experience and be right more often than not, > but if a customer called me by phone and described a drive, I wouldn't > venture to say 40 or 80 track, high or regular density etc without > testing the drive myself. Barring a test, a model number would be the > only other way I'd swear to a drive's capacity. > > Regards, > > Jeff > From patrick at evocative.com Mon Apr 21 12:09:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Source of Vintage CPUs: Vintage Burglar Alarms Message-ID: Over the weekend I dissected two commercial alarm panels people had saved for me. While I was grateful for the thought, I didn't give my donors much credit for being discriminating. Boy was I wrong. When I opened the first panel, the board inside had a 6805 sitting smack in the middle of it. It also yielded a 2716, a 2764, a 6821, and a pair of 6116 static RAMs, along with numerous other Motorola-branded support chips and passives. I thought that was a pretty cool find, especially considering my short-sighted view of its potential. Panel #2, however, seems to have been the real gem. The large board within didn't look that interesting, just the usual myriad passives, and the panel was clearly very old (looked 20 years or more). It had a daughter board about six inches square and fully enclosed in shielding, hiding its contents. I removed the board, stripped it of its shielding, and found... an RCA CDP1806, two 1852s, an RCA-branded 6116, and three other support chips. The label on the 27128 EPROM on the board says "(C) 1984". Simple stuff, but I was jazzed. Classic computers are everywhere... --Patrick From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 21 12:19:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Source of Vintage CPUs: Vintage Burglar Alarms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030421171728.38532.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Rigney wrote: > Over the weekend I dissected two commercial alarm panels... . . . > Panel #2, however, seems to have been the real gem... > an RCA CDP1806, two 1852s... Is the 1806 the version with the embedded FORTH interpreter? Nice find on the 1852s - those are highly sought after (almost as much as 1861s!) What brand is the panel, in case one of us is lucky enough to run across a pile of them at the Hamvention or the like? -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From distante at teleline.es Mon Apr 21 12:36:55 2003 From: distante at teleline.es (Distante) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab Message-ID: Hi Stuart, I'd seen your ad at: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-January/009065.html asking for the manual of the HP 5036A microprocessor lab. Have you got it ?? I also have one and also searching for a manual. There's no way to find it. Cheers Jose Madrid-Spain From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 21 12:57:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: TrantorMini SCSI Epp In-Reply-To: <20030420193033.101.qmail@web11502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Xdale wrote: > Hi Fred: You Wrote:Trantor was bought out by Adaptec. You might try them. > . . . Yes, I wrote that, but it was a LONG time ago. years. > Would you like me to snail mail a copy of the disk? Or would you prefer > e-mail attachment? > COULD YOU KINDLY SEND ME THAT DRIVER AS AN ATTACHMENT IN REPLYIN TO > THIS EMAIL? THANKS Doug Crosdale The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. > Easier. Bingo. I'd be glad to, if I still had any of them. But in 2000, I closed up my offices, and sold/gave away 1K square feet of stuff. I still have a few dozen cubic yards of stuff, but I don't think that I still have any Trantor stuff. From patrick at evocative.com Mon Apr 21 13:32:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Source of Vintage CPUs: Vintage Burglar Alarms In-Reply-To: <20030421171728.38532.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > What brand is the panel, in case one of us is lucky enough to run > across a pile of them at the Hamvention or the like? > > -ethan Ethan, it was a Radionics panel. --Patrick From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 21 13:40:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: PIP problem solved on Apple ][ CP/M Message-ID: I was finally able to devote some time to my Apple CP/M issues and figured it out. It turns out that the version of MS CP/M that I'm using has got the device identifiers correct, even though Steve Hirsch warned that they were reversed in Microsoft's implementation. I apparently have a version where it is fixed. I first connected up my laptop to the Super Serial Card in slot #2 and then tried to PIP RDR:=B:file. I got a message to the effect that the RDR: device cannot be written to. Then I tried to get slick and use STAT to change the RDR: device to what PUN: was pointed to. That didn't work. Then I decided to just try PIPing to the PUN: device and it took, but I didn't see anything across the serial port. A little more digging and reading and I verified that, as Steve said, the Apple ][ CP/M standard is for a serial card in slot 2. In fact, the documentation I read indicated that the hardware configuration pretty much matches that of Apple Pascal. So I did a STAT DEV: to show me what devices were connected where. RDR: was set to PTR: and PUN: was set to :PTP (presumably Paper Tape Reader and Paper Tape Punch respectively). So then I did a STAT VAL: to see what the possible connections were for each device. PUN: could be TTY: PTP: UP1: UP2: I thought for a second and then figured it would be worth a try to see if UP2: stood for the device in slot 2. Sure enough it did, and when I tried a PIP to PUN: it worked. So I was able to PIP the files directly from disk over the serial port to my laptop. Very convenient. There apparently is a utility that allows you to copy files from CP/M disks to Apple DOS disks but it must have come on a DOS utility disk that I just don't have. I'm sure KERMIT or some sort of X-modem protocol was written that would have made this a lot easier, but I seem to have misplaced my Apple CP/M disks. Oh well. At least I know how it's done, and this can serve as quick docs for someone attempting to do the same in the future. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dmabry at mich.com Mon Apr 21 13:44:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: TrantorMini SCSI Epp References: Message-ID: <3EA439B1.8080606@mich.com> I think I missed the original request here. What was asked for? If it has to do with drivers for the Trantor parallel port-SCSI host adapters I might have them. The ones I've used recently (well, kind of recently, well, maybe it was last century) were from Adaptec but I believe they would work correctly with Trantor. Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Xdale wrote: > >>Hi Fred: You Wrote:Trantor was bought out by Adaptec. You might try them. >>. . . > > > Yes, I wrote that, but it was a LONG time ago. years. > > >>Would you like me to snail mail a copy of the disk? Or would you prefer >>e-mail attachment? >>COULD YOU KINDLY SEND ME THAT DRIVER AS AN ATTACHMENT IN REPLYIN TO >>THIS EMAIL? THANKS Doug Crosdale The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. >>Easier. Bingo. > > > I'd be glad to, if I still had any of them. But in 2000, I closed up my > offices, and sold/gave away 1K square feet of stuff. I still have a few > dozen cubic yards of stuff, but I don't think that I still have any > Trantor stuff. > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Apr 21 14:11:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: 5.25" drive identification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > A rule of thumb I use, but I won't swear is universal... Is the LED > > color. USUALLY... Red LED signifies 360k/180k Drives, and a Green LED > > signifies 1.2mb Drives. > > Again, not reliable. The 1.2M drive on this machine (orginal IBM) has a > red LED. I think that for Teac drives, the LED colour was actually a > customer-selectable option (red, yellow and green all exist, for all > types of drives) Panasonic 5.25" drives use a socket for the front panel LED, so it is extremely easy to change the color. I've swapped out many amber LEDs in their 1.2Mb drives for green ones. According to the company when I requested technical docs for that particular series of drives, the LED color was something a customer could specify when ordering drives. -Toth From joe_web at worldonline.fr Mon Apr 21 14:52:00 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?B?Sm/rbCBXZWJlcg==?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: amd 1600 xp + accesoires References: Message-ID: <003a01c1567b$996fed60$1d64a8c0@toi> bonjour, je vends: amd 1600 xp+ carte m?re + ventillateur geforce 4 ti4200 128 ddr 768 ddr memoire 80go western digital carte r?seau pinnacle pctv sat digital clavier et souris sans fil de logitech webcam logitech (sous garantie) ecran 19 pouces flat hyundai (sous garantie) imprimante lexmark avec cartouches de r?change ainsi d'un kit de r?charge lecteur disuqette lecteur cd lecteur dvd graveur traxdata 241040+ graveur traxdata 522452 (sous garantie) grande tour atx (une des plus grandes) volant microsoft force feedback (jamais servi) saiteck game pad (jamais servi) certains jeux (originaux avec leurs bo?tes) valeur neuve 2700 euros vendu : 2200 euros pour des questions ?crvez ? joe_web@worldonline.fr From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Apr 21 15:33:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: B&C microsystems UP200 software In-Reply-To: <20030421125442.27978.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <000801c30764$392361d0$6601a8c0@yourwg5n33dutv> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030421133452.025c8290@mail.zipcon.net> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- B&C Microsystems Inc. 750 North Pastoria Avenue Sunnyvale, CA 94086 Phone: 408.730.5511 Fax: 408.730.5521 BBS: 408.730.2317 Try this, they might still exist. At 05:54 AM 4/21/03 -0700, you wrote: >--- MIchelle Zygo wrote: > > I am in need of software for the UP200 programmer. LMK if you have it and > > could send me a copy via email. Just picked up a unit and want to get > > programming. > >I don't have one that old. I have a B&C Microsystems model UP600A. I >think I have the second-to-newest software for it. > >I have found the UP600A unreliable in 386 and 486 computers. I suspect >it is software related, not hardware related (the hardware is a B&C >proprietary parallel card (that send power down the same cable as data) >attached to a large box with a multi-channel D-to-A and a 40-pin ZIF >socket - there are dozens of chips in the programmer box itself). I >used to have mine in a Commodore Colt; now it's in the base station of >a Compaq SLT/286. > >I don't know where you could find software for your UP200. I searched >long and hard for software for my UP600A when my Colt died. In the >end, I was able to recover the data from its XT-IDE drive, and that's >what's on the SLT/286. > >Good Luck, > >-ethan >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >http://search.yahoo.com From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Apr 21 15:40:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Microvax 3100 Model 38 wanted Message-ID: <1d5.7e34df9.2bd5b0c1@aol.com> One of my dealer contacts is looking for MV 3100 Model 38s. They are offering to pay cash. Reply to them, not me, please. This is their second request. I think these things are over 10 years old. Paxton Astoria, OR WE NEED TO BUY: MICROVAX 3100 MODEL 38 OR SYSTEM DV-31JCC-XX (46-ZMC-A9) SYSTEM BOX BA42B LICENSE QL-005AP-62 CPU KA58 (54-24695-02) CALL US TODAY !!! WE HAVE ORDERS - - WILL PAY TOP $ Call, fax or E-mail us today! 246 Commerce Drive, Rochester, NY 14623 www.computerclearinghouse.com Call Now: (585) 334-0550 Fax: (585) 334-2244 E-mail: hardware@computerclearinghouse.com From jss at subatomix.com Mon Apr 21 16:14:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: amd 1600 xp + accesoires In-Reply-To: <003a01c1567b$996fed60$1d64a8c0@toi> References: <003a01c1567b$996fed60$1d64a8c0@toi> Message-ID: <20030421211750.GA31658@subatomix.com> This has been dealt with. Move along, nothing to see here. On Tuesday, October 16, 2001, Jo?l Weber wrote: > bonjour, je vends: > > amd 1600 xp+ > ... -- Jeffrey Sharp From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Mon Apr 21 17:16:01 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks Message-ID: Hi All, Thanks for the help with LIF formats and CS80 protocol. I now have the bare bones of an application working. Currently the application runs on a PC fitted with a NI GPIB board. It reads LIF formatted hardrives (in my case one of two 9133's that I have) extracting the file catalog. A file can then be selected from the catalog and its binary image written to the PC's hard drive. This means that I can back-up the files on one of the 9133 drives before reformatting it :) That's as far as I've got at the moment - it has taken rather longer than I had first hoped but seems to be pretty stable now. I could write some more code to allow sets of files to be selected from the binary images stored on the PC and then written back to the CS80 protocol hard drive (either re-formatting the hard drive or appending the new files to the existing catalog). This would allow easy file interchange (and back-up) for people with CS80 / LIF based computers. Perhaps a database of binaries / files could be made available on the internet to download as required? What would the copyright implications be if such a database were made available? Would there be any interest from people with 9000 200 and 300 systems on the list? If there is enough interest I will look doing the extra coding sooner rather than putting it on the pile of things that I 'really shoud do one day'. Cheers Peter Brown _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Mon Apr 21 18:43:00 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Odessey 1 (was Re: Fw: Game console up to $200) In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Apr 20, 2003 03:42:26 PM Message-ID: <200304212341.h3LNfO36015590@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >From: chris >Sender: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > >>I've had one these since I was a kid, but I've never seen the rifle >>or the boxed games before. > >I've never seen boxed games, but then A: I was pretty young when I used >to play with mine, (and I believe it predates me in existance), and B: I >have a feeling mine was never obtained via the market, but rather as a >test item directly from Magnavox, so it may never have been complete with >market packaging (I know I have a white labeled box that the system and >controllers and stuff goes in, I'm assuming that was standard packaging). Magnavox didn't test market in that way, since there was no market to test in. The Odyssey, being the first video game console, was sold alongside every other Magnavox product just like any other television accessory (which is what it was considered by many at the time, and why many people wound up mistakingly thinking it would only work on Magnavox television sets). My guess is your parent's could have gotten a used model, or you just don't remember everything that actually came with it because you were so young and it was so long ago. You probbly didn't see the boxed games because they were sold seperately (see below). > >As for the rifle. I don't remember everything it was used for, but I know >I LOVED the haunted house game that used it. There was a haunted house >overlay, and basically "ghosts" appeared at various windows and doors and >you had to shoot them. (IIRC, the ghosts were nothing more than white >blocks, but hey, for early 70's that kicked ass!) > >-chris > > The rifle and added cartridges were sold seperately, and usually not pushed. Remember the Odyssey was sold as an accessory to Magnavox televisions, so these were basicly accessories to an accessory in store owners views. Consequently they were usually stored behind the counter or in some unplain view location. If you want to learn more about the Odyssey, read the Odyssey FAQ here: http://www.pong-story.com/o1faq.txt Marty From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Apr 21 19:11:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: B&C microsystems UP200 software In-Reply-To: <20030421125442.27978.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <000801c30764$392361d0$6601a8c0@yourwg5n33dutv> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030421170142.043d0c80@mail.zipcon.net> At 05:54 AM 4/21/03 -0700, you wrote: >--- MIchelle Zygo wrote: > > I am in need of software for the UP200 programmer. LMK if you have it and > > could send me a copy via email. Just picked up a unit and want to get > > programming. I now have what is supposedly a copy of the software, :) if you're still interested in it email me directly and I'll email it out to you. I also have a copy of the UP600 software :) From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 21 19:22:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: TrantorMini SCSI Epp In-Reply-To: <3EA439B1.8080606@mich.com> Message-ID: If you, or anybody else, have Trantor/Adaptec drivere, please get a copy to "xdale". He made his request based on something that I posted a buncha years ago. On Mon, 21 Apr 2003, Dave Mabry wrote: > I think I missed the original request here. What was asked for? If it > has to do with drivers for the Trantor parallel port-SCSI host adapters > I might have them. The ones I've used recently (well, kind of recently, > well, maybe it was last century) were from Adaptec but I believe they > would work correctly with Trantor. > > > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Xdale wrote: > > > >>Hi Fred: You Wrote:Trantor was bought out by Adaptec. You might try them. > >>. . . > > > > > > Yes, I wrote that, but it was a LONG time ago. years. > > > > > >>Would you like me to snail mail a copy of the disk? Or would you prefer > >>e-mail attachment? > >>COULD YOU KINDLY SEND ME THAT DRIVER AS AN ATTACHMENT IN REPLYIN TO > >>THIS EMAIL? THANKS Doug Crosdale The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. > >>Easier. Bingo. > > > > > > I'd be glad to, if I still had any of them. But in 2000, I closed up my > > offices, and sold/gave away 1K square feet of stuff. I still have a few > > dozen cubic yards of stuff, but I don't think that I still have any > > Trantor stuff. > > > > . > > > > > -- > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com > Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team > NACD #2093 From zorba at mbari.org Mon Apr 21 19:27:00 2003 From: zorba at mbari.org (Zorba) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Quadram "Golden Quadboard" Message-ID: <200304211815.h3LIFO703285@mbari.org> Hello - I got your email address from a websearch - you seen to know about the Quadram Quadboard. I have a "Golden Quadboard", what the difference is between this and the regular variety - I don't know. However, I'd really like to be able to use the real time clock, is there a setclock program, and a readclock that sets the DOS clock from the board at bootup? Do you have any idea where I could get programs like these? Any help would be appreciated! Thanx! -Zorba From geoffr at zipcon.com Mon Apr 21 19:28:39 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.com (geoffr@zipcon.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: hmmm... oldish booklet Message-ID: <3ea46c78bf2161.57279172@zipcon.com> I was digging through some old paperwork I had laying around and found a copy of "Radio Shack Introduces the world of computers" from 1977 From cb at mythtech.net Mon Apr 21 19:36:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Odessey 1 (was Re: Fw: Game console up to $200) Message-ID: >Magnavox didn't test market in that way, since there was no market to test >in. The Odyssey, being the first video game console, was sold alongside >every other Magnavox product just like any other television accessory >(which is what it was considered by many at the time, and why many people >wound up mistakingly thinking it would only work on Magnavox television >sets). Makes sense, but that doesn't preclude my theory from being correct. (see below) >My guess is your parent's could have gotten a used model, or you just >don't remember everything that actually came with it because you were so >young and it was so long ago. Nope, it might very well have been a test product. My father owns a market research company, and in the past Magnavox has been one of our clients. There is a good chance that it was obtained directly from Magnavox for the purpose of a focus group to discuss it and get opinions on it. Knowing that people thought it was only for Magnavox TVs just makes me believe this even more, as it would have been ripe for a focus group to try to figure out how to alter public perception. I also have 2 (3?) Atari 2600's that were never purchased, but instead left behind after studies and focus groups were done with them. I was supposed to have a Coleco Adam from the same way, but Coleco opted to take it back (which just made me want my friend's even more, which he shipped off to the Philipeans after telling me I could have it... so I think I am destined to never own an Adam). I tried to get a TurboExpress (the Turbo Graphix 16 portable unit). But at the time that I was playing with one when we were doing groups on them, it was one of 3 in the US from Japan (the other two of them NEC execs were busy playing with in the same room) I had more toys growing up than I new what to do with... all because they would be left behind after studies, a practice that most companies seem to have stopped. Unfortantly, I didn't know the gold mine I was sitting on, so many of the items were broken and/or disposed of (much like how I cry when I see what Star Wars action figures go for today, and I think about how many I blew up with firecrackers in my back yard). Of course, NONE of this means that is how I got my Odessey for sure. It is just my suspicion based on what my parents were willing to buy. If it was remotely interesting or expensive, they wouldn't buy it. So all the best toys came from study leftovers. Since I remember the Odessey as being fun, and I'm sure it wasn't cheap, I have to assume we did a job on it and Magnavox left it behind. -chris From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 21 21:24:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: micropfiche things at auction In-Reply-To: <20030320220650.71EBE42C18@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030421191445.02c32480@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > www.govliquidation.com. Poking around at some semi local auction I found some microfiche readers and printers http://usainfo.com/hooks/Niinall.asp?P=5510&Userid=llg&Niin=673000MICROFI&LLK=99 From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Apr 21 21:48:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab References: Message-ID: <034301c30879$51d69bf0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Distante" To: Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 10:56 AM Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab > Hi Stuart, > > I'd seen your ad at: > > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-January/009065.html > > asking for the manual of the HP 5036A microprocessor lab. Have you got it ?? > > I also have one and also searching for a manual. There's no way to find it. > > Cheers > > Jose > > Madrid-Spain Jose, Yes, I managed to get a manual, by watching auctions on eBay. In fact, I bought another HP 5036A plus manual and let the seller keep the hardware to save shipping costs from England to the US. The manual is softcover and would not be easy to copy without cutting the spine off, which would ruin its value. Don't give up, though. I know someone that has a manual that has been cut up and copied and I'm trying to get it so that I can make an Acrobat PDF file of it. Regards, Stuart Johnson From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 21 23:17:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Odessey 1 (was Re: Fw: Game console up to $200) In-Reply-To: <200304212341.h3LNfO36015590@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Apr 2003, Martin Scott Goldberg wrote: > Magnavox didn't test market in that way, since there was no market to test > in. The Odyssey, being the first video game console, was sold alongside > every other Magnavox product just like any other television accessory > (which is what it was considered by many at the time, and why many people > wound up mistakingly thinking it would only work on Magnavox television > sets). Magnavox certainly had the intention that people might think that because of course it meant more TV sales for them. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From shirsch at adelphia.net Tue Apr 22 06:43:00 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: PIP problem solved on Apple ][ CP/M In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Apr 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I was finally able to devote some time to my Apple CP/M issues and figured > it out. > > It turns out that the version of MS CP/M that I'm using has got the device > identifiers correct, even though Steve Hirsch warned that they were > reversed in Microsoft's implementation. I apparently have a version where > it is fixed. > > I first connected up my laptop to the Super Serial Card in slot #2 and > then tried to PIP RDR:=B:file. I got a message to the effect that the > RDR: device cannot be written to. Then I tried to get slick and use STAT > to change the RDR: device to what PUN: was pointed to. That didn't work. > Then I decided to just try PIPing to the PUN: device and it took, but I > didn't see anything across the serial port. > > A little more digging and reading and I verified that, as Steve said, the > Apple ][ CP/M standard is for a serial card in slot 2. In fact, the > documentation I read indicated that the hardware configuration pretty > much matches that of Apple Pascal. So I did a STAT DEV: to show me what > devices were connected where. RDR: was set to PTR: and PUN: was set to > :PTP (presumably Paper Tape Reader and Paper Tape Punch respectively). So > then I did a STAT VAL: to see what the possible connections were for each > device. PUN: could be TTY: PTP: UP1: UP2: > > I thought for a second and then figured it would be worth a try to see if > UP2: stood for the device in slot 2. Sure enough it did, and when I tried > a PIP to PUN: it worked. Bingo! That's the bit I couldn't recall from my own (mis)adventures with the Softcard IIe. I knew that it involved using the second instance (or opposite) of ... something (twenty years is a lot of brain cells into the bit-bucket). Glad you have it going. > > So I was able to PIP the files directly from disk over the serial port to > my laptop. Very convenient. > No doubt you are having to use slow baud rates to avoid character loss, correct? > There apparently is a utility that allows you to copy files from CP/M > disks to Apple DOS disks but it must have come on a DOS utility disk that > I just don't have. There is a free utility floating around (name slips my mind) which can copy between DOS <--> ProDOS <--> Pascal <--> CP/M diskettes. Perhaps someone else can think of the name? Steve From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 22 08:06:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030422090501.0ffff026@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Peter, I for one would be very interested in further work on the HP drive reader/writer. I have a lot of old drives around that I'd like to investgate and see what's on them but frequenty you have to have a system/CPU very similar to what they were written on in order to read them. Since that's not always possible your tool would be handy for taking a peek at what kind of files are on the drives before spending a lot of time finding the correct CPU and connecting it. For example I just found a HP-9133VX drive with BTL-200 on it. I want to reformat the drive (SS-80) and try to use it on a HP-85 but the BTL-200 is rare and may be worth saving. Which NI card are you using? Can I get a copy of what you have so far? Joe At 10:13 PM 4/21/03 +0000, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Thanks for the help with LIF formats and CS80 protocol. I now have the bare >bones of an application working. > >Currently the application runs on a PC fitted with a NI GPIB board. > >It reads LIF formatted hardrives (in my case one of two 9133's that I have) >extracting the file catalog. A file can then be selected from the catalog >and its binary image written to the PC's hard drive. This means that I can >back-up the files on one of the 9133 drives before reformatting it :) > >That's as far as I've got at the moment - it has taken rather longer than I >had first hoped but seems to be pretty stable now. > >I could write some more code to allow sets of files to be selected from the >binary images stored on the PC and then written back to the CS80 protocol >hard drive (either re-formatting the hard drive or appending the new files >to the existing catalog). > >This would allow easy file interchange (and back-up) for people with CS80 / >LIF based computers. > >Perhaps a database of binaries / files could be made available on the >internet to download as required? > >What would the copyright implications be if such a database were made >available? > >Would there be any interest from people with 9000 200 and 300 systems on the >list? > >If there is enough interest I will look doing the extra coding sooner rather >than putting it on the pile of things that I 'really shoud do one day'. > > >Cheers > >Peter Brown > >_________________________________________________________________ >Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 10:15:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears Message-ID: <20030422151303.51626.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Having worked out the pitch of the broken drive gears (120), and having looked on a couple of web sites _and_ contacted someone at Boston Gear, it's looking grim. According to the e-mail I got back, Boston Gear doesn't carry anything finer than a pitch of 64. When I asked who did carry such gears, the answer was: "I am not familiar with any company that makes miniature gearing." :-( My goal all along has been to find a company that has a bag of these on the shelf. I had no idea it was such an unusual item. I don't relish the idea of fabrication, but maybe that's what we're facing. Rather than machining each gear, I wonder how hard it would be to make an extrusion die to pump out a long gear and cut it into 5/32" slices? -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Apr 22 10:52:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter g ears Message-ID: Allied Devices (http://www.allieddevices.com/web2000/documents/pinhubgears.80.120.html) lists 120 pitch gears. Making a die (internal cuts) is probably harder than machining individual gears. -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 10:13 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears Having worked out the pitch of the broken drive gears (120), and having looked on a couple of web sites _and_ contacted someone at Boston Gear, it's looking grim. According to the e-mail I got back, Boston Gear doesn't carry anything finer than a pitch of 64. When I asked who did carry such gears, the answer was: "I am not familiar with any company that makes miniature gearing." :-( My goal all along has been to find a company that has a bag of these on the shelf. I had no idea it was such an unusual item. I don't relish the idea of fabrication, but maybe that's what we're facing. Rather than machining each gear, I wonder how hard it would be to make an extrusion die to pump out a long gear and cut it into 5/32" slices? -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 22 11:04:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: PIP problem solved on Apple ][ CP/M In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Steven N. Hirsch wrote: > > So I was able to PIP the files directly from disk over the serial port to > > my laptop. Very convenient. > > > > No doubt you are having to use slow baud rates to avoid character loss, > correct? Actually, I had no such problems transferring at 9600 baud. > There is a free utility floating around (name slips my mind) which can > copy between DOS <--> ProDOS <--> Pascal <--> CP/M diskettes. Perhaps > someone else can think of the name? Sweet. I need that. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Apr 22 11:11:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Apple IIe for $700 + somewhat OT In-Reply-To: <20030412163846.1960.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> References: <013801c30102$bec5c3e0$f20bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3EA5858D.26646.6CD3EF6E@localhost> > > Another crazy price for an Apple IIe??? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2168296821 > I think the $700 was for the Woz signature, and it so happened to be on a > IIe. Maybe I could copy that sig and put it on my IIe Platinum and increase > the value twohundredfold. > the winning bidder probably has several Corvettes too -- and all they are is > a plastic Chevy. Jup, heaving an A2 with a Woz signature, and the shows video would make a nice setup ... well, I gues even I would have payed more than 50 Bucks - unlike for a pastic Corvette (*1) Gruss H. (*1) Over here (Germany) the Corvett still has an image of a low level pimp car. During the late 70s, early 80s, when the Dollar started to decline quite fast, Chevrolet forgot to raise the price in Marks (to earn more), which led to a dramatic price drop. At some point, a VW Beetle convertible did cost substantial more than Corvette. While the average buyer still wasn't so much jumping on, a whole generation of low level wanabes (I just keep the more apropriate names for myself) bought them. Since the sale of US GM cars wasn't part of the main Opel business, nobody over here realy cared - and the Detroit was extremly happy with soaring sales numbers ... just no real profit, since they had a lot of blonn engines etc. It was also the time when American car engeneering was not at it's best, so it gave US cars a bad name in technology the very same time. It's a blow US carmakers still feel. And when their European companies tried to build the new models based on US designed platforms (and designs) 2-3 years ago, their market share droped also. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Apr 22 11:26:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks Message-ID: Ditto; I have several drives and would like to interrogate them. I also just picked up a HP ISA HPIB card at Goodwill (inside a Compaq Deskpro XE 466). It would help. Thanks a lot for developing the concept and prelim SW. Paxton Astoria, OR From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 22 12:46:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter g ears References: Message-ID: <003101c308f6$bbf24660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Coming up dry... ? This listing looks decent: Gears & Gear Manufacturers Gears: Miniature (36 Companies Found) http://www.gears-ez.com/gears/0055881_0009155_1.html John A. From acme at ao.net Tue Apr 22 12:55:01 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: 6850 IC needed Message-ID: <200304221753.h3MHrQue029223@eola.ao.net> From: Paul Berger Date: 04/20/2003 7:41 PM > You fixing an OSI system? > > Paul No, it's a LarKen 1000 floppy disk drive controller for the ZX81/TS1000. On the off chance that *anyone* on this list has a schematic for this critter -- I'd sure appreciate it! Later -- Glen 0/0 From acme at ao.net Tue Apr 22 12:55:22 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: 6850 IC needed Message-ID: <200304221753.h3MHrUue029272@eola.ao.net> From: Ethan Dicks Date: 04/20/2003 8:57 PM > B.G. Micro - $1.75 > > http://www.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid=08246180555555562416016975&prodid=ICS > 0&page=1&cri=6850&stype=3 Thanks! Glen 0/0 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 12:57:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030422175453.3181.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > Allied Devices > (http://www.allieddevices.com/web2000/documents/pinhubgears.80.120.html) > lists 120 pitch gears. Thanks for the tip. I hadn't found them yet. I've sent them the dimensions. Those URLs to PDFs don't work (missing files, it appears) unfortunately. > Making a die (internal cuts) is probably harder than machining individual > gears. True, but it's something that is done once, rather than for each gear. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 13:03:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys Message-ID: <20030422180108.77541.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> New toys: Apple II Mouse Interface (I have one somewhere in a box that I haven't seen in years, so it was faster to buy another one ;-) Apple II Network Workstation Card (2). I've done some Googling, and it appears that I may not be able to use these in any Apple II I currently have (they seem to require an enhanced IIe). Ultimately, I'd like to lay hands on the Mac server software (3.x?) that will let me boot an Apple II over Localtalk and treat the Mac as a remote disk drive. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Apr 22 13:05:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:09 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears In-Reply-To: <20030422151303.51626.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030422134913.00a39320@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Ethan, Internal splines, which is basically what that extrusion die would be are much harder to do than cutting gear teeth on the OD of a gear blank. The internal splines would have to be done on a slotter ( or possibly a shaper with the right set up, i.e. some cutting machine with a linear reciprocating cutting motion ) or cut into the die with EDM or wire EDM processes. Much more difficult, and therefore more expensive manufacturing processes. Original gears probably were shot in a plastic injection mold, but the mold making is very expensive too, and not something to do for very small production runs. Too bad you couldn't find someone with a broach, because broaching internal splines might not be as expensive a manufacturing process as long as you found someone with the broach already made up. To have a tool and die maker have to make a broach would also be expensive. Also extrusion die blank material would have too not be too hard to broach. But then you have to have the extrusion process set up and run. All in all, if you can't find them already made up, milling the teeth into blanks or slotting on a lathe are probably going to be your only really feasible options. Best Regards At 08:13 AM 4/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >Having worked out the pitch of the broken drive gears (120), and >having looked on a couple of web sites _and_ contacted someone >at Boston Gear, it's looking grim. > >According to the e-mail I got back, Boston Gear doesn't carry anything >finer than a pitch of 64. When I asked who did carry such gears, the >answer was: "I am not familiar with any company that makes miniature >gearing." :-( > >My goal all along has been to find a company that has a bag of these >on the shelf. I had no idea it was such an unusual item. I don't >relish the idea of fabrication, but maybe that's what we're facing. > >Rather than machining each gear, I wonder how hard it would be to >make an extrusion die to pump out a long gear and cut it into 5/32" >slices? > >-ethan >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >http://search.yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Tue Apr 22 13:19:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: FREE Some kind of SIMM card Message-ID: I have some kind of 72 pin SIMM card here. I am pretty sure I pulled it from a dying Zenith 386 before the PC was scrapped. The only label on it says JABIL APE 240-7929-20 I think it might be some kind of BIOS card, or Cache card. Silk screened between two chips says 32K Cache 85-3749-01. I don't know if that refers to the card, or just the two chips it is printed between. None of the other chips on the card have screened labels of value. If anyone wants it, send me your address, I'll stick it in a padded envelope and mail it out to you. -chris From patrick at evocative.com Tue Apr 22 13:40:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: <20030422180108.77541.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Apple II Mouse Interface (I have one somewhere in a box that I haven't > seen in years, so it was faster to buy another one ;-) For those in the SF Bay Area who care about such things... Weird Stuff Warehouse had a box full of these in the As-Is room (I was there Friday), mixed in with a bunch of Super Serial cards and Disk II interface ards. --Patrick From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 14:04:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Radio Shack/Science Fair bonus Message-ID: <20030422190220.89949.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> I recently won an auction described as a "Science Fair Junior Electronic Lab 10 in 1"... the picture showed a couple of blue grid boards which were, AFAIK, not part of a 10-in-1 It turns out that in addition to the 10-in-1, there was an entire (and a partial) "Science Fair Junior Project Board Kit" (cat no. 28-153) - one manual, two plug boards, one IC board (14-pin socket + 14 springs) plus a double handful of mixed loose components. The components are somewhat interesting from a historical perspective - there are several flavors of transistor sockets, several segmented LED displays (some on PCBs as from an LED calculator, some in DIP form), mercury switches, reed switches, and a bag of resistors with a "King Kits" card from Poly Paks. I'm curious if there's a repository of ancient Radio Shack kit manuals out there - I did not get a manual for the 10-in-1 (cat no. 28-225), but at least I got its box (covered in packing tape, grrr.) -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Apr 22 14:09:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: <20030422180108.77541.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Apr 22, 3 11:01:08 am" Message-ID: <200304221919.MAA07514@floodgap.com> > Apple II Network Workstation Card (2). I've done some Googling, and it > appears that I may not be able to use these in any Apple II I currently > have (they seem to require an enhanced IIe). Ultimately, I'd like to > lay hands on the Mac server software (3.x?) that will let me boot an > Apple II over Localtalk and treat the Mac as a remote disk drive. 3.x maybe but 2.x definitely as I've booted IIgs systems this way. I have it installed on an SE/30 somewhere around here. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Use [Microsoft] IE and Passport and you can browse like it's 1984. -- /. --- From cb at mythtech.net Tue Apr 22 14:26:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Radio Shack/Science Fair bonus Message-ID: >I'm curious if there's a repository of ancient Radio Shack kit >manuals out there - I did not get a manual for the 10-in-1 >(cat no. 28-225), but at least I got its box (covered in packing >tape, grrr.) Did you check Radio Shack's web site? They have hundreds of their manuals online in PDF format, many going back quite a long time. -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 22 14:37:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: <20030422180108.77541.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030422180108.77541.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Apple II Mouse Interface (I have one somewhere in a box that I haven't > seen in years, so it was faster to buy another one ;-) Would you believe I actually got a IIgs with one of these in it, and the mouse? > Apple II Network Workstation Card (2). I've done some Googling, and it > appears that I may not be able to use these in any Apple II I currently > have (they seem to require an enhanced IIe). Ultimately, I'd like to > lay hands on the Mac server software (3.x?) that will let me boot an > Apple II over Localtalk and treat the Mac as a remote disk drive. These would also work in a IIgs wouldn't they? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 22 14:42:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears Message-ID: <200304221940.MAA10416@clulw009.amd.com> Hi As long as the load is not that great, one can whack out the center with a drill and then notch it with a file. The drill needs to be larger than the OD of the inner splins. You then fill the voids with a mixture of epoxie and fiber glass wool. Using something like JB Weld will make the material as hard as most plastics. To keep things aligned while the epoxie is setting, make a jig to hold things by drilling some concentric holes in layers of plywood that are bolted together, for alignment. You need to put a wax surface on the plywood where the epoxie will be so it doesn't stick. It isn't real clean looking but should be functional. Dwight >From: "Mail List" > >Hello Ethan, > >Internal splines, which is basically what that extrusion die would be are >much harder to do than cutting gear teeth on the OD of a gear blank. >The internal splines would have to be done on a slotter ( or possibly >a shaper with the right set up, i.e. some cutting machine with a linear >reciprocating cutting motion ) or cut into the die with EDM or wire >EDM processes. Much more difficult, and therefore more expensive >manufacturing processes. Original gears probably were shot in a >plastic injection mold, but the mold making is very expensive too, and >not something to do for very small production runs. Too bad you couldn't >find someone with a broach, because broaching internal splines might >not be as expensive a manufacturing process as long as you found >someone with the broach already made up. To have a tool and die maker >have to make a broach would also be expensive. Also extrusion die blank >material would have too not be too hard to broach. But then you have to >have the extrusion process set up and run. All in all, if you can't find them >already made up, milling the teeth into blanks or slotting on a lathe are >probably going to be your only really feasible options. > >Best Regards > > > > >At 08:13 AM 4/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >>Having worked out the pitch of the broken drive gears (120), and >>having looked on a couple of web sites _and_ contacted someone >>at Boston Gear, it's looking grim. >> >>According to the e-mail I got back, Boston Gear doesn't carry anything >>finer than a pitch of 64. When I asked who did carry such gears, the >>answer was: "I am not familiar with any company that makes miniature >>gearing." :-( >> >>My goal all along has been to find a company that has a bag of these >>on the shelf. I had no idea it was such an unusual item. I don't >>relish the idea of fabrication, but maybe that's what we're facing. >> >>Rather than machining each gear, I wonder how hard it would be to >>make an extrusion die to pump out a long gear and cut it into 5/32" >>slices? >> >>-ethan >>The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >>http://search.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 14:56:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears In-Reply-To: <200304221940.MAA10416@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20030422195412.34749.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > Hi > As long as the load is not that great, one can whack > out the center with a drill and then notch it with a file. > The drill needs to be larger than the OD of the inner splins. > You then fill the voids with a mixture of epoxie and > fiber glass wool... That sounds interesting for a large enough gear, but in this case, it's about 1/8" in diameter and 5/32" long with a bore of 1/20". I don't think I'll be trying to whack and/or notch a chunk of plastic that's smaller than a tic-tac. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 15:05:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Radio Shack/Science Fair bonus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030422200305.8071.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- chris wrote: > >I'm curious if there's a repository of ancient Radio Shack kit > >manuals out there - I did not get a manual for the 10-in-1 > >(cat no. 28-225), but at least I got its box (covered in packing > >tape, grrr.) > > Did you check Radio Shack's web site? They have hundreds of their manuals > online in PDF format, many going back quite a long time. I found this: http://support.radioshack.com/support_games/3183.htm ... but that is dozens, not hundreds. I could not find anything on their website for the "10-in-1" kit (but I could find "30-in-1" and "200-in-1"). Am I looking in the wrong place? -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Apr 22 15:11:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears In-Reply-To: <20030422195412.34749.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030422195412.34749.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > That sounds interesting for a large enough gear, but in this case, it's > about 1/8" in diameter and 5/32" long with a bore of 1/20". > > I don't think I'll be trying to whack and/or notch a chunk of plastic > that's smaller than a tic-tac. What type of plastic were these gears made from? I was thinking about pulling out one of my plotters, but I don't exactly remember where I put it right now ;P If they are made of nylon, I'm surprised that they split. I really expect to find that they were made of some kind of ABS or ABS blended plastic that didn't handle the press-fit pressure very well. Has anyone contacted Alps to see if maybe they might know where the gears were made originally? It's certainly possible a set of molds might still be sitting around somewhere... -Toth From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Apr 22 15:15:01 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Apr 22, 3 12:35:22 pm" Message-ID: <200304222024.NAA11616@floodgap.com> > > Apple II Network Workstation Card (2). I've done some Googling, and it > > appears that I may not be able to use these in any Apple II I currently > > have (they seem to require an enhanced IIe). Ultimately, I'd like to > > lay hands on the Mac server software (3.x?) that will let me boot an > > Apple II over Localtalk and treat the Mac as a remote disk drive. > > These would also work in a IIgs wouldn't they? Probably, but you don't need one for a ROM 03 IIgs -- they have built-in boot-over-LocalTalk support. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I see nothing! Nothing! -- Sgt. Schultz, "Hogan's Heroes" ------------------ From cb at mythtech.net Tue Apr 22 15:22:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Radio Shack/Science Fair bonus Message-ID: >I found this: > > http://support.radioshack.com/support_games/3183.htm > >... but that is dozens, not hundreds. I could not find anything on >their website for the "10-in-1" kit (but I could find "30-in-1" and >"200-in-1"). > >Am I looking in the wrong place? You're looking in the right place... looks like they just don't have that one. And I didn't mean hundreds in that catagory, I meant hundreds of manuals in total. Unless they have removed a bunch recently. -chris From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Apr 22 15:43:01 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears In-Reply-To: <20030422195412.34749.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > Hi > > As long as the load is not that great, one can whack > > out the center with a drill and then notch it with a file. > > The drill needs to be larger than the OD of the inner splins. > > You then fill the voids with a mixture of epoxie and > > fiber glass wool... > > That sounds interesting for a large enough gear, but in this case, > it's about 1/8" in diameter and 5/32" long with a bore of 1/20". > > I don't think I'll be trying to whack and/or notch a chunk of > plastic that's smaller than a tic-tac. How about making a silicone mold from an original gear and making copies out of some kind of plastic or epoxy resin? > > -ethan > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com > Peter Wallace From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 22 15:46:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears In-Reply-To: <20030422151303.51626.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Having worked out the pitch of the broken drive gears (120), and > having looked on a couple of web sites _and_ contacted someone > at Boston Gear, it's looking grim. > > According to the e-mail I got back, Boston Gear doesn't carry anything > finer than a pitch of 64. When I asked who did carry such gears, the > answer was: "I am not familiar with any company that makes miniature > gearing." :-( Ethan, there is an outfit Sterling Instrument/Stock Drive Products at 2101 Jericho Turnpike, Box 5416, New Hyde Park, NY 11042-5416, phone 516-328-3300, fax 516-326-8827 who may be able to help out in the 64 pitch game. The address and phone data is some years old, but may well still be valid. - don > My goal all along has been to find a company that has a bag of these > on the shelf. I had no idea it was such an unusual item. I don't > relish the idea of fabrication, but maybe that's what we're facing. > > Rather than machining each gear, I wonder how hard it would be to > make an extrusion die to pump out a long gear and cut it into 5/32" > slices? > > -ethan > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com From rborsuk at colourfull.com Tue Apr 22 15:49:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Teletype Model 32 In-Reply-To: <1d5.7e34df9.2bd5b0c1@aol.com> Message-ID: <8D1F115B-7503-11D7-B572-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Hi All, I received a beautiful Teletype model 32 in today. Unfortunately I wish it ran as good as it looks. It only prints one character no matter what key you press and it won't return from the right hand side. Does anyone have the Technical manual for this beast or know where I can get it from? Thanks Rob Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 22 15:55:00 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks Message-ID: Hi Joe and Paxton?, Joe, I'm using device level calls to the NI GPIB board via the GPIB-32.DLL so any NI card that uses this driver should work - that includes NI ISA based cards (TNT-GPIB etc.), PCI cards (PCI-GPIB - the one that I'm using) and probably the PCMCIA-GPIB as well. For the record, my development machine is XP based though any Win32 operating system should be OK. I'm going to try to tidy the code up a little - if people think that the idea of making an online catalog of files is a good one then I have no problem with making this application available to help making it. Paxton, Apologies if Paxton is where you live and not your name - I live in the UK so my knowledge of US place names is a little lacking! My development machine has two GPIB cards in it both are PCI based - one is an NI PCI-GPIB card, the other an HP 82350 card. The NI configuration utility only displays the NI card that is installed in the machine however the HP utility shows both cards. It may be that the HP card can be controlled using the NI software but I haven't tried it yet - I'll have a play this evening. If the HP PCI based card can be recognised then it is possible that an HP ISA card would be OK. If not then it should be OK to use an NI ISA based GPIB card (around $20 on e-bay). I'll let you know how I get on. Cheers Peter Brown _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 15:58:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: <200304222024.NAA11616@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <20030422205634.83360.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Apple II Network Workstation Card (2)... (they seem to require an > > > enhanced IIe). > > > > These would also work in a IIgs wouldn't they? > > Probably, but you don't need one for a ROM 03 IIgs -- they have built-in > boot-over-LocalTalk support. Well... I have one ROM 01 IIgs and one ROM 03 IIgs. Presumably, I could use it in the older IIgs, but I wouldn't have to (setting up one IIgs should be enough at any one time ;-) Thanks for the tip, -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 16:03:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Apple II mouse (was Re: Two new Apple toys) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030422210132.84121.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Apple II Mouse Interface (I have one somewhere in a box that I > > haven't seen in years, so it was faster to buy another one ;-) I didn't mention it, but I did get one mouse in the box, too. > Would you believe I actually got a IIgs with one of these in it, and the > mouse? The IIgs has ADB ports, yes? Why would you want an old mouse card then? I got this one because, long ago, I wrote commercial software that *supported* the mouse card (my portion included reading the mouse and scrolling a digit under the disk icon to let the player load/save one of ten game files). We paid full retail price for the card and mouse - $80 for the mouse and $250 for the card, IIRC, in 1984. One of the screens for our "Micro Mother Goose" product was "London BridgeOut" - a breakout clone. Besides playing Bolo and a few other games, we programmers used to take our own games for a ride now and then - the mouse gave us a *huge* score boost over the arrow keys. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From Technoid at 30below.com Tue Apr 22 16:06:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c30913$0a1eb8c0$6300a8c0@benchbox> I've had good luck with a solid two-part epoxy you can find at most auto shops - usually right by the register. It comes in a clear plastic cylinder about 1' in diameter and 3" long. It is grey in color and has the consistency of putty. The two parts are together already in the form of a core of one material and a shell of another. You cut off a piece and knead it til' it is fully mixed. It will get warm and smell like a ladies' old-style hair 'permanent'. When cured it is heat resistant enough that I used it to seal the headers on my BMW R60/5, and strong enough that I've used it in place of metal for lots of repairs in printers, tape drives, you name it. I think it is strong enough to make gears out of in that scale. It forms very well and is cheap as dirt for what it does (about four bucks a tube). For the gears, I'd let it cure for 24hrs before doing any machining. I mention this because someone else mentioned JBWeld. JB is a great product but is liquid which makes it harder to handle and unsuitable for many of the jobs I've used the more solid product for. Best, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Peter C. Wallace Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 4:41 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > Hi > > As long as the load is not that great, one can whack > > out the center with a drill and then notch it with a file. > > The drill needs to be larger than the OD of the inner splins. > > You then fill the voids with a mixture of epoxie and > > fiber glass wool... > > That sounds interesting for a large enough gear, but in this case, > it's about 1/8" in diameter and 5/32" long with a bore of 1/20". > > I don't think I'll be trying to whack and/or notch a chunk of > plastic that's smaller than a tic-tac. How about making a silicone mold from an original gear and making copies out of some kind of plastic or epoxy resin? > > -ethan > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com > Peter Wallace From ssj152 at charter.net Tue Apr 22 16:47:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: KIM-1 question Message-ID: <006f01c30918$5a238c10$0200a8c0@cosmo> I recently got a KIM-1 Rev. A (on eBay) and have a question about it. This particular model, the Revision A, doesn't say Commodore, and has a low (< 3000) serial number on it. What it DOES have, is a PIN 10 of U26 is cut in half, and a twisted pair of wires are attached 1) at the chip, and 2) at the board. The end of the wires not connected to U26 is not connected to anything other than each other. The schematic showing this component is in the KIM-1 User Manual, section 3.7 Is this part of a known mod for the KIM-1? It looks to me like it might have been used with a switch on the free end to select half duplex (open) and full duplex (closed) for the TTY interface. Your suggestions and comments are solicited. Regards, Stuart Johnson From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Tue Apr 22 17:06:00 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: F/U HP 9134A HDD problem Message-ID: Hello, I want to give some follow up on my problem interfacing a 9134A HDD to my HP 85. Nothing seemed to work and I was about to toss it when I decided to follow the advice of Alex Knight and vp**. Alex suggested removing the HDD and trying to initialize each one of the 4 logical drives with the HDD on it's side, "to loosen things up a bit". I took the top off, and hey, does HP use the biggest darn capacitors you have ever seen or what? There are two side by side capacitors in there that look like sticks of dynamite. Mindful of these I had the first screw holding the drive out when I noticed under a big dust ball that the ribbon cable connection from the HDD to the PCB was loose. I pushed it back on and to my delight everything now works fine! After a little detailing she looks and works great. Thanks again for your help. >I am having trouble interfacing an HP 9134 HDD to my HP 85. I have connected >other drives without difficulty such as the 9121D so I believe the computer >is set up properly. >I recently picked up a 9134A HD. It apparently emulates a 9895A 8" flexible >drive and 3 slaves each with 1.15MB capacity. >I set the HP-IB address to zero on the HD and typed MASS STORAGE is ":D700". >I then typed CAT and Initialize and keep getting a "Timeout". Also if I turn >the 85 on with the HD connected and running and type CAT the HD does not >respond as my 9121 would without typing a mass storage is command. >Can I assume the drive is bad or am I using the wrong syntax. The drive >spins up nicely, and the light comes on but I get that error message and the >disk access light does not come on. >I hate to toss this drive into the dumpster if it is functional. >Thank you for your thoughts. from "Cameron Kaiser" at Apr 22, 2003 01:24:13 PM Message-ID: <200304222218.h3MMIQcV023431@shell1.aracnet.com> > > These would also work in a IIgs wouldn't they? > > Probably, but you don't need one for a ROM 03 IIgs -- they have built-in > boot-over-LocalTalk support. I wish I had a ROM 03 IIgs, but then I also wish I had room to have my IIe and IIgs setup. Unfortunatly all my Apple II stuff is in storage. :^( Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 22 17:23:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Apple II mouse (was Re: Two new Apple toys) In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 22, 2003 02:01:32 PM Message-ID: <200304222221.h3MMLFdM023497@shell1.aracnet.com> > --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Would you believe I actually got a IIgs with one of these in it, and the > > mouse? > > The IIgs has ADB ports, yes? Why would you want an old mouse card > then? I have a theory about this. Was the ADB mouse an additional purchase? My guess is that whoever put it in there had the card and mouse from an old system and rather than spending the money on an ADB mouse, put it into the IIgs. Either that or they had software which required it. Zane From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 22 17:45:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears Message-ID: <200304222243.PAA10563@clulw009.amd.com> >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> That sounds interesting for a large enough gear, but in this case, it's >> about 1/8" in diameter and 5/32" long with a bore of 1/20". >> >> I don't think I'll be trying to whack and/or notch a chunk of plastic >> that's smaller than a tic-tac. > >What type of plastic were these gears made from? I was thinking about >pulling out one of my plotters, but I don't exactly remember where I put >it right now ;P > >If they are made of nylon, I'm surprised that they split. I really expect >to find that they were made of some kind of ABS or ABS blended plastic >that didn't handle the press-fit pressure very well. > >Has anyone contacted Alps to see if maybe they might know where the gears >were made originally? It's certainly possible a set of molds might still >be sitting around somewhere... > >-Toth > Hi I've seen this same kind of failure in a small Automatic Kodak camera. One other thought would be to make a mold with a good gear and use that to make new gears using something like JB Weld ( I do like this stuff ). You'd mold the gear on the shaft so that there would be no tendency to split the gear from pressing it together. The gear in the camera looked like it was a nylon gear and not the typical plastic. I didn't make a check on it though. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 22 17:48:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter gears Message-ID: <200304222246.PAA10568@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Peter C. Wallace" > >On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: >> > Hi >> > As long as the load is not that great, one can whack >> > out the center with a drill and then notch it with a file. >> > The drill needs to be larger than the OD of the inner splins. >> > You then fill the voids with a mixture of epoxie and >> > fiber glass wool... >> >> That sounds interesting for a large enough gear, but in this case, >> it's about 1/8" in diameter and 5/32" long with a bore of 1/20". >> >> I don't think I'll be trying to whack and/or notch a chunk of >> plastic that's smaller than a tic-tac. > >How about making a silicone mold from an original gear and making copies out >of some kind of plastic or epoxy resin? > >> >> -ethan >> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >> http://search.yahoo.com >> > >Peter Wallace > Like minds! Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 22 18:34:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter In-Reply-To: <20030422151303.51626.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 22, 3 08:13:03 am Message-ID: > Rather than machining each gear, I wonder how hard it would be to > make an extrusion die to pump out a long gear and cut it into 5/32" > slices? There are 3 ways that instantly spring to mind for making this gear, using the sort of tools you'd find in a good amateur workshop (i.e. no CNC tools). 1) Mill it a tooth at a time on a dividing head. The disadvantage is that this is slow. The advantage is that the equipment needed is not too exotic. The pitch sounds simmilar to small watch or clock pinions, so a tooth cutter for those might be able to be used (but be warned such cutters are _very_ expensive). 2) Cut it on a hobbing machine. Once set up, it'll just cut the gear -- you don't have to index the blank round and feed it past the cutter by hand. The problem is that hobbing machines are not common (although not impossible to make either). Where you get a suitable fine pitch hob is another matter... 3) Injection mould it. David Gingery has written a book about making a small injection moulding machine which I think would be suitable for making these gears 1 or 2 at a time. The problem is making the mould. The obvious way to make something of that size would be by EDM. The electrode could be made by one of first 2 methods (you'd only ever have to make one of them :-)). EDM is not impossible in the home workshop, or so I am told... Methods (1) and (2) have the advantage you could make the gear in brass, which would easily outlast the owner of the plotter :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 22 18:36:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Coming up dry for Alps/Radio Shack/Atari/Commodore plotter In-Reply-To: <200304221940.MAA10416@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Apr 22, 3 12:40:33 pm Message-ID: > Hi > As long as the load is not that great, one can whack > out the center with a drill and then notch it with a file. Rather you than me. This gear is about 1/8" OD (that's from memory, whatever you do, don't make one on that spec :-)). I would not fancy trying to file internal splines on a hole about 2mm (i.e. the 'root' diamater of the gear) in diamater... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 22 18:36:20 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Teletype Model 32 In-Reply-To: <8D1F115B-7503-11D7-B572-00050287688D@colourfull.com> from "Robert Borsuk" at Apr 22, 3 04:46:54 pm Message-ID: > Hi All, > I received a beautiful Teletype model 32 in today. Unfortunately I > wish it ran as good as it looks. It only prints one character no > matter what key you press and it won't return from the right hand side. > Does anyone have the Technical manual for this beast or know where I > can get it from? The Model 32 is the 5-level (baudot) version of the Model 33. I believe that many of the mechanisms are similar, and that the Model 33 manuals (which are on the web somewhere I think) might be of some use. In fact at least one of my Model 33 manuals (maybe the parts catalogue) covers the Model 32 as well. -tony From patrick at evocative.com Tue Apr 22 19:00:01 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: H89: Soft-sectored controller help/question Message-ID: Thanks to Wayne Smith's timely docs for the Heath Z-89-37 soft-sectored floppy controller, after another person who shall for the moment remain nameless has failed to fulfill his (repeated) promise of spare parts and docs paid for seven months ago now, but I digress... I think I'm in the home stretch of getting the board installed and working. But... The installation instructions for the controller state that CPU board ICs U557 and U558 are to be removed, and a DIP header/ribbon cable from the controller board is to be connected into the now empty U557, and a "20 pin plug with jumper" are to be installed at U558. However, I do not _have_ the 20-pin plug with jumper that replaces the 74LS240 removed at U558, and the connection of a jumper in this socket is not immediately evident to me from studying the schematics. Can someone with an H/Z-90 and the soft-sectored controller please take a look and tell me what pins in the 20-pin plug at U558 are jumpered? Thanks! Patrick From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 22 19:04:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Teletype Model 32 Message-ID: <200304230002.RAA10638@clulw009.amd.com> Check for the 33 stuff on: http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl?Search=teletype&stype=Partial+Wo rd&fields=id%2Ctitle%2Cdate&debug=0&table=pdp8docs&orderby=sort%2Ctitle I'm sure you'll have to paste it back together. Dwight >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >> Hi All, >> I received a beautiful Teletype model 32 in today. Unfortunately I >> wish it ran as good as it looks. It only prints one character no >> matter what key you press and it won't return from the right hand side. >> Does anyone have the Technical manual for this beast or know where I >> can get it from? > >The Model 32 is the 5-level (baudot) version of the Model 33. I believe >that many of the mechanisms are similar, and that the Model 33 manuals >(which are on the web somewhere I think) might be of some use. In fact at >least one of my Model 33 manuals (maybe the parts catalogue) covers the >Model 32 as well. > >-tony From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Apr 22 20:08:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Apple II mouse (was Re: Two new Apple toys) References: <200304222221.h3MMLFdM023497@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <00b201c30934$c0f24c80$7f00a8c0@midorirose.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 6:21 PM Subject: Re: Apple II mouse (was Re: Two new Apple toys) > > --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > Would you believe I actually got a IIgs with one of these in it, and the > > > mouse? > > > > The IIgs has ADB ports, yes? Why would you want an old mouse card > > then? > > I have a theory about this. Was the ADB mouse an additional purchase? My > guess is that whoever put it in there had the card and mouse from an old > system and rather than spending the money on an ADB mouse, put it into the > IIgs. Either that or they had software which required it. Or a good salesman... > > Zane Bob From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Apr 22 20:55:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Turns down $443 for Win1.1 Message-ID: <02b601c3093b$149d00e0$7b0bdd40@oemcomputer> I'm glad you can still get it from the thrifts for under $3, used not new like this one. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3602578486 From oldcomp at cox.net Tue Apr 22 20:58:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Teletype Model 32 References: <8D1F115B-7503-11D7-B572-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <3EA5F23D.7080504@cox.net> Someone has been selling 32/33 Teletype manuals on CD on ebay. -Bryan > > I received a beautiful Teletype model 32 in today. Unfortunately I > wish it ran as good as it looks. It only prints one character no > matter what key you press and it won't return from the right hand > side. Does anyone have the Technical manual for this beast or know > where I can get it from? From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 22 21:43:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Turns down $443 for Win1.1 In-Reply-To: from "Keys" at Apr 22, 2003 08:53:02 PM Message-ID: <200304230241.h3N2fQgs005479@shell1.aracnet.com> > I'm glad you can still get it from the thrifts for under $3, used not new > like this one. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3602578486 You know, I really should put my copy up on eBay, the shrinkwrap and box aren't as perfect as that, but I could sure use the cash for some software upgrades for my Mac! Zane From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Apr 23 07:33:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: 286 Computers In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Apr 19, 03 09:58:05 pm Message-ID: <200304231222.IAA16132@wordstock.com> And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > On Sat, 19 Apr 2003, TeoZ wrote: > > > I dont think many of the 286 computers will ever be collectable. For some > > reason they are just not popular, maybe because of memory/memory management > > limitations. > > Or because they are just plain boring and uninteresting. > *But* you can play Castle Wolfenstein 3D on them! ;) Cheers, Bryan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 23 08:39:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: 286 Computers In-Reply-To: <200304231222.IAA16132@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20030423133750.31140.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > > > On Sat, 19 Apr 2003, TeoZ wrote: > > > > > I dont think many of the 286 computers will ever be collectable... > > > > Or because they are just plain boring and uninteresting. > > > > *But* you can play Castle Wolfenstein 3D on them! ;) When people were still attempting to sell 286s at Hamfests and Fleamarkets, you could tell the 286s because *that* was running on them as a crowd attractor. It also showed off the dogs... all it took was one 386-25 across the aisle and nobody paid any attention to the 286s. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Apr 23 10:04:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: 286 Computers References: <20030423133750.31140.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000e01c309a8$88377f40$3c281941@neo.rr.com> Reminds me of sellers showing doom2 on a 486/133 at the computer shows trying to get rid of them before people realised that the pentium was soooo much faster. I still have a 386/40 for playing the older games. So far I havnt run into anything that I need a 286 or earlier to play it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 9:37 AM Subject: Re: 286 Computers > --- Bryan Pope wrote: > > And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > > > > > On Sat, 19 Apr 2003, TeoZ wrote: > > > > > > > I dont think many of the 286 computers will ever be collectable... > > > > > > Or because they are just plain boring and uninteresting. > > > > > > > *But* you can play Castle Wolfenstein 3D on them! ;) > > When people were still attempting to sell 286s at Hamfests and Fleamarkets, > you could tell the 286s because *that* was running on them as a crowd > attractor. > > It also showed off the dogs... all it took was one 386-25 across the > aisle and nobody paid any attention to the 286s. > > -ethan > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com From jamesl at bestweb.net Wed Apr 23 11:22:01 2003 From: jamesl at bestweb.net (James E. LaBarre) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Turns down $443 for Win1.1 In-Reply-To: <200304230241.h3N2fQgs005479@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200304230241.h3N2fQgs005479@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3EA6BD5E.2080006@bestweb.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>I'm glad you can still get it from the thrifts for under $3, used not new >>like this one. >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3602578486 Gee, mine is shrinkwrapped, but not in a box From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Apr 23 11:49:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Turns down $443 for Win1.1 References: <200304230241.h3N2fQgs005479@shell1.aracnet.com> <3EA6BD5E.2080006@bestweb.net> Message-ID: <001001c309b7$31df78a0$3c281941@neo.rr.com> Im sure the guy was just testing the water, have a few auctions where reserve is like $5K or something stupid. Probably bid on it himself. Then when he does another auction (he probably has a case of that software) he wants to sucker stupid collectors into thinking its rare and buy it for a few 100 a box. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James E. LaBarre" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:20 PM Subject: Re: Turns down $443 for Win1.1 > Zane H. Healy wrote: > >>I'm glad you can still get it from the thrifts for under $3, used not new > >>like this one. > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3602578486 > > Gee, mine is shrinkwrapped, but not in a box From jforbes2 at mindspring.com Wed Apr 23 13:11:30 2003 From: jforbes2 at mindspring.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Kaypro Software-Micro Cornucopia Disks Message-ID: <3EA49950.5050500@mindspring.com> When I got several Kaypro II etc. machines several years ago at the thrift store, I also found a bunch of related floppy disks. Several of them are apparently copies of disks from Micro Cornucopia at Bend, Oregon (a mid 80s magazine?). They appear to have lots of useful software, I think public domain...assemblers, utilities, etc. I finally got round to getting 22disk running on an XT, and I've been reading these old floppies, and copying the contents to the hard drive on my main computer. No read errors yet, and I've done a dozen! amazing.... Is there any interest in this stuff, such as on a CP/M archive server somewhere? I should be able to zip it up and email or ftp it somewhere. I don't have room on my home page (url below). Here's a sample of what's in them, from part of the .doc file for one of the disks: ============================================= KAYPRO USER'S DISK #10-------Assembly Language Disk Micro Cornucopia PO BOX 223 Bend OR 97709 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- CROWECPM.COM CROWECPM.DOC CROWECPM.Z80 This program is for all of you that wanted a Z80 assembler without spending hundreds of dollars for it. We modified the CROWE assembler so that it would work under any CP/M system. CROWECPM accepts standard Zilog mnemonics and creates a .HEX and .PRN files. The .HEX file is in Intel format and can be used to create a .COM file with the CP/M LOAD.COM. A symbol table is listed at the end of the .PRN file. It is a good assembler and the source code is included if any one would like to make it even better. See CROWECPM.DOC for information on using the CROWECPM assembler. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- LASM.COM LASM.DOC This is another assembler. It is a rewrite of the standard CP/M ASM assembler. The difference is that this version can link assembly language programs together at assembly time. This version also runs faster the ASM.COM. This could be a the begininning of a linker for our Small C+. See LASM.DOC for details. ======================================================= Neat stuff, obviously. -- Jim Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum! http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2 From kaii_01 at hotmail.com Wed Apr 23 13:12:58 2003 From: kaii_01 at hotmail.com (kai kai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: want to datasheet AM9515a-1PC Message-ID: Hi Emanuel I want to datasheet am9515a-1pc from pdf file my email. amornsukp@yahoo.com I hope you conducted to me. Thanks to the fueture. Andy From glennervin at cableone.net Wed Apr 23 13:13:46 2003 From: glennervin at cableone.net (Glenn Ervinat home) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: ISA Expansion Box Message-ID: <00a401c30940$f4e1c6e0$a600a8c0@glenn> Hello Jeff, I saw your post on the IBM machine which used an ISA Expansion Box, and I am looking for such a box, or 2 or 3. Would you know where I could get my hands on some? The Blind (myself included) like using our synthetic speech cards along with the software synthetic speech that comes from the sound card. Usually the sound cards produce a more pleasant speech output, but if the soundcard stops working, we are screwed, so we would like to keep using the older speech cards (ISA). I have been doing some web searches without much luck. Thanks for any leads. "Live long and prosper", O. Glenn Ervin (Lenny) N0YJV Northeast Nebraska e-mail: GlennErvin@cableONE.net The above address can also be found on MSM. or my work e-mail: gErvin@ncbvi.state.ne.us From guru.communications at virgin.net Wed Apr 23 13:14:08 2003 From: guru.communications at virgin.net (David Tyler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Sharp PC-7100 in the UK Message-ID: <014601c309a9$5e01b8c0$1d070150@dave> .. doesn't have the same ring as 'Anarchy in the UK', but never mind :) I'm new to the group, but the FAQ says it's OK to advertise a bit so here goes: Emigration means getting rid of stuff I can't afford to take, and this includes a Sharp PC-7100. Includes cables butno documentation. Anyone who'd like it contact me at oldcmp@gurucomms.co.uk regards Dave From bill at timeguy.com Wed Apr 23 13:14:27 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Radio Shack/Science Fair bonus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030422150224.E48933-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Heck - I just gave a couple of the older RS electronic experimenter kits to Goodwill. They had the manuals, too. On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, chris wrote: > >I'm curious if there's a repository of ancient Radio Shack kit > >manuals out there - I did not get a manual for the 10-in-1 > >(cat no. 28-225), but at least I got its box (covered in packing > >tape, grrr.) > > Did you check Radio Shack's web site? They have hundreds of their manuals > online in PDF format, many going back quite a long time. > > -chris > From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Apr 23 14:04:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: asr Teletype in the ASIS section at WeirdStuff Message-ID: <131AB8F0-75BE-11D7-8406-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> I saw it there the last 2 or 3 times I went. (I don't work for Weird stuff, but I shop there a lot!) I had wanted one of these until I owned a machine with a floppy disk.... From hansp at aconit.org Wed Apr 23 14:15:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Kaypro Software-Micro Cornucopia Disks In-Reply-To: <3EA49950.5050500@mindspring.com> References: <3EA49950.5050500@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3EA6E5F6.7000807@aconit.org> J Forbes wrote: ... > I finally got round to getting 22disk running on an XT, and I've been > reading these old floppies, and copying the contents to the hard drive > on my main computer. No read errors yet, and I've done a dozen! > amazing.... Almost as amazing as my experience reading 30 year old DECtapes, over 25 tapes read and only a few retries, no read errors. > Is there any interest in this stuff, such as on a CP/M archive server > somewhere? I should be able to zip it up and email or ftp it somewhere. > I don't have room on my home page (url below). Neat stuff indeed, if no one else volounteers I can host them in my webspace.... -- hbp From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Wed Apr 23 14:17:00 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Odessey 1 (was Re: Fw: Game console up to $200) In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Apr 21, 2003 08:34:32 PM Message-ID: <200304231915.h3NJFglE022740@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >>Magnavox didn't test market in that way, since there was no market to test >>in. The Odyssey, being the first video game console, was sold alongside >>every other Magnavox product just like any other television accessory >>(which is what it was considered by many at the time, and why many people >>wound up mistakingly thinking it would only work on Magnavox television >>sets). > >Makes sense, but that doesn't preclude my theory from being correct. (see >below) Actually, it does. Read below. > >>My guess is your parent's could have gotten a used model, or you just >>don't remember everything that actually came with it because you were so >>young and it was so long ago. > >Nope, it might very well have been a test product. My father owns a >market research company, and in the past Magnavox has been one of our >clients. There is a good chance that it was obtained directly from >Magnavox for the purpose of a focus group to discuss it and get opinions >on it. Knowing that people thought it was only for Magnavox TVs just >makes me believe this even more, as it would have been ripe for a focus >group to try to figure out how to alter public perception. Actually, it's the opposite. People just didn't do focus groups for these types of products, and the fact that Magnavox didn't change it's marketing the entire 2 years it was being sold show's it's lack of attempt at this type of idea. It was unheard of, and to Magnavox at the time would be no different than doing a focus group for a new TV antenna. It wasn't considered a major product purchase like a television - something they would consider spending the money on product placement research for. It was considered a television accessory. Just another example of the cost cutting and lack of forsight on it - the Odyssey prototype that Ralph built was originally in *color*. (In fact last time I talked to him, he was in the middle of restoring it to display color again.) Maganvox was the one that decided to go with black and white to cut costs. Again, you don't have to take my word for it, talk to Ralph himself or ask any of the major Odyssey and Pong collectors (such as David Winter). People thought it was only for Magnavox because Magnavox *didn't* know how to market it and *didn't* care to change it. The history of the Odyssey is legendary for this fact. You're infusing a market view and practice common in the video game industry (and others) today that just didn't exist back then. There was no industry at the time. What prompted sales of the original Odyssey were it's novelty effect and it's tennis game. Why the tennis game? Because of the success Atari was generating with it's Pong coin-op in the arcades at the same time. The actual video game industry (from a modern consumer standpoint) didn't start until '75 when Atari started it's consumer division and pong consoles (Magnavox did as well with the Odyssey 100, which just played it's tennis game) literally started pushing video game consoles as a consumer product of their own (under the Sears Tele-games label). Then with the influx of Warner money, marketing and advertising in 1976 you had the stakes raised to the level of big business (which is where you have focus groups and other such practices come in). Atari created the modern video game industry, and Nintendo perfected it's in the mid to late 80's. > >I also have 2 (3?) Atari 2600's that were never purchased, but instead >left behind after studies and focus groups were done with them. I was >supposed to have a Coleco Adam from the same way, but Coleco opted to >take it back (which just made me want my friend's even more, which he >shipped off to the Philipeans after telling me I could have it... so I >think I am destined to never own an Adam). I tried to get a TurboExpress >(the Turbo Graphix 16 portable unit). But at the time that I was playing >with one when we were doing groups on them, it was one of 3 in the US >from Japan (the other two of them NEC execs were busy playing with in the >same room) Yes, but these (including the 2600) are much later products. Warner was a major media studio that brought that level of marketing to Atari and the industry for instance (including commercials, movie appearances, etc.). Before that, they just didn't exist in the video game and coin-op industry. People didn't test market pong consoles. There was a sort of test market of coin-ops before that, but that usually just involved setting up a coin-op in an arcade location and seeing how much money it earned at the end of a few weeks. No concerted "focus group" type effort. > >I had more toys growing up than I new what to do with... all because they >would be left behind after studies, a practice that most companies seem >to have stopped. Unfortantly, I didn't know the gold mine I was sitting >on, so many of the items were broken and/or disposed of (much like how I >cry when I see what Star Wars action figures go for today, and I think >about how many I blew up with firecrackers in my back yard). > > >Of course, NONE of this means that is how I got my Odessey for sure. It >is just my suspicion based on what my parents were willing to buy. If it >was remotely interesting or expensive, they wouldn't buy it. So all the >best toys came from study leftovers. Since I remember the Odessey as >being fun, and I'm sure it wasn't cheap, I have to assume we did a job on >it and Magnavox left it behind. > >-chris > > The sold for about $100 at the time. Marty From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Apr 23 14:30:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:10 2005 Subject: Kaypro Software-Micro Cornucopia Disks References: <3EA49950.5050500@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3EA6E958.4000303@eoni.com> J Forbes wrote: > When I got several Kaypro II etc. machines several years ago at the > thrift store, I also found a bunch of related floppy disks. Several > of them are apparently copies of disks from Micro Cornucopia at Bend, > Oregon (a mid 80s magazine?). They appear to have lots of useful > software, I think public domain...assemblers, utilities, etc. > > I finally got round to getting 22disk running on an XT, and I've been > reading these old floppies, and copying the contents to the hard drive > on my main computer. No read errors yet, and I've done a dozen! > amazing.... > > Is there any interest in this stuff, such as on a CP/M archive server > somewhere? I should be able to zip it up and email or ftp it > somewhere. I don't have room on my home page (url below). > Grab an account at one of the free webservers (I use tripod) and slap a quick webpage up. Free and it works for me! Jim From kth at srv.net Wed Apr 23 14:41:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Kaypro Software-Micro Cornucopia Disks References: <3EA49950.5050500@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3EA6F39F.4090105@srv.net> J Forbes wrote: > When I got several Kaypro II etc. machines several years ago at the > thrift store, I also found a bunch of related floppy disks. Several > of them are apparently copies of disks from Micro Cornucopia at Bend, > Oregon (a mid 80s magazine?). They appear to have lots of useful > software, I think public domain...assemblers, utilities, etc. Micro Cornucopia was a Kaypro oriented magazine, which also had some MS-DOS stuff in later years. They offered several items for sale for upgrading Kaypro's, such as a 4Mhz modification, and schematics of the system. > > I finally got round to getting 22disk running on an XT, and I've been > reading these old floppies, and copying the contents to the hard drive > on my main computer. No read errors yet, and I've done a dozen! > amazing.... > > Is there any interest in this stuff, such as on a CP/M archive server > somewhere? I should be able to zip it up and email or ftp it > somewhere. I don't have room on my home page (url below). I thought I had some of these Kaypro Disks, but can only see a Pro-8 utility disk at the moment. I wouldn't mind getting copies of the Kaypro disks, but don't have any place to host them. These disks usually were programs without source code. Micro Cornucopia also had several MS-DOS disks available, some of which I have. These are (rough names only) ms-2 CheapAssem ms-3 Adventure ms-8 NeatGames ms-13 EditorAndFormatter ms-21 SmallCAndCWindows ms-22 DynamiteUtilities ms-23 Express ms-24 SuperiorGames ms-27 SystemPrimer ms-28 FiveNewAdventures ms-32 HackAndBeast ms-34 ColorGames ms-36 GeneralUtilities ms-37 DiskUtilities ms-40 MoreUtilities ms-44 Hercules ms-47 PCStyle From mr at jasongullickson.com Wed Apr 23 15:14:00 2003 From: mr at jasongullickson.com (Jason J. Gullickson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: <20030422180108.77541.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <153D0FAADC2C90459D202D16D24A94AE015EF6C5@webmail.inacom-msn.com> You know I remember using one of these when I was in school. We had an SE/30 server that ran a lab of mac...mac II something's and then there were these two IIe's in the corner with greenscreens that were somehow attached to the network...so it a localtalk interface? -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 1:01 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Two new Apple toys New toys: Apple II Mouse Interface (I have one somewhere in a box that I haven't seen in years, so it was faster to buy another one ;-) Apple II Network Workstation Card (2). I've done some Googling, and it appears that I may not be able to use these in any Apple II I currently have (they seem to require an enhanced IIe). Ultimately, I'd like to lay hands on the Mac server software (3.x?) that will let me boot an Apple II over Localtalk and treat the Mac as a remote disk drive. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 23 15:38:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: <153D0FAADC2C90459D202D16D24A94AE015EF6C5@webmail.inacom-msn.com> Message-ID: <20030423203545.63470.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Jason J. Gullickson" wrote: > You know I remember using one of these when I was in school. We had an > SE/30 server that ran a lab of mac...mac II something's and then there > were these two IIe's in the corner with greenscreens that were somehow > attached to the network...so it a localtalk interface? Yep. The "Apple Workstation Interface" is an intellegent card that fits in late-model Apple IIs (well... it *fits* in all of them, but it only _works_ with a IIgs or expanded IIe). It has two 8-pin DINs on the end of ribbon cables, one marked with an Apple Localtalk icon, one with a printer icon. The board itself has a 65SC02, two 6264 SRAMs, a Zilog Z8530 (common to Macs, Suns and late-model COMBOARDS ;-), some glue logic, a honkin' big Apple ASIC, and some AM26LS30/AM26LS32 level drivers. There's a picture at: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/apple2tree/card/card2.htm It's the one at the bottom of the page. WARNING: Japanese characters are present. Your browser might or might not like them. Under the picture, it starts off with "uuaakusuteeshiyon kaado" ("Workstation Card" in Katakana). -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Apr 23 16:20:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys References: <20030423203545.63470.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001a01c309dd$0c549cc0$3c281941@neo.rr.com> Anybody have an extra one of those cards? Wouldnt mind getting my IIgs connected to the apple network :) Also on a related note, where the heck can you find a scsi card for a IIgs that doesnt cost $50+? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: RE: Two new Apple toys > --- "Jason J. Gullickson" wrote: > > You know I remember using one of these when I was in school. We had an > > SE/30 server that ran a lab of mac...mac II something's and then there > > were these two IIe's in the corner with greenscreens that were somehow > > attached to the network...so it a localtalk interface? > > Yep. The "Apple Workstation Interface" is an intellegent card that > fits in late-model Apple IIs (well... it *fits* in all of them, but > it only _works_ with a IIgs or expanded IIe). It has two 8-pin DINs > on the end of ribbon cables, one marked with an Apple Localtalk icon, > one with a printer icon. > > The board itself has a 65SC02, two 6264 SRAMs, a Zilog Z8530 (common > to Macs, Suns and late-model COMBOARDS ;-), some glue logic, a > honkin' big Apple ASIC, and some AM26LS30/AM26LS32 level drivers. > > There's a picture at: > > http://member.nifty.ne.jp/apple2tree/card/card2.htm > > It's the one at the bottom of the page. > > WARNING: Japanese characters are present. Your browser might or might > not like them. Under the picture, it starts off with "uuaakusuteeshiyon > kaado" ("Workstation Card" in Katakana). > > -ethan > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo > http://search.yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 23 16:50:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Turns down $443 for Win1.1 In-Reply-To: <001001c309b7$31df78a0$3c281941@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Im sure the guy was just testing the water, have a few auctions where > reserve is like $5K or something stupid. Probably bid on it himself. Then > when he does another auction (he probably has a case of that software) he > wants to sucker stupid collectors into thinking its rare and buy it for a > few 100 a box. Actually, original boxed copies of Windows 1.x are fairly rare. At least they are extremely uncommon (in the box and shrinkwrapped). Unless someone suddenly uncovers a warehouse full of them (I've heard crazier things) I'll continue to consider it fairly rare. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Apr 23 17:03:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: <001a01c309dd$0c549cc0$3c281941@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Anybody have an extra one of those cards? Wouldnt mind getting my IIgs > connected to the apple network :) Can't you just use one of the serial ports on the back as an AppleTalk port? I seem to remember that you can do that, at least under GS/OS. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Apr 23 17:06:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: <20030423203545.63470.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000101c309e4$91686fc0$6300a8c0@benchbox> ROFLMAO! Jeff >>>> a honkin' big Apple ASIC From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 23 17:17:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Kaypro Software-Micro Cornucopia Disks In-Reply-To: <3EA49950.5050500@mindspring.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Apr 2003, J Forbes wrote: > When I got several Kaypro II etc. machines several years ago at the > thrift store, I also found a bunch of related floppy disks. Several of > them are apparently copies of disks from Micro Cornucopia at Bend, > Oregon (a mid 80s magazine?). They appear to have lots of useful > software, I think public domain...assemblers, utilities, etc. > > I finally got round to getting 22disk running on an XT, and I've been > reading these old floppies, and copying the contents to the hard drive > on my main computer. No read errors yet, and I've done a dozen! > amazing.... > > Is there any interest in this stuff, such as on a CP/M archive server > somewhere? I should be able to zip it up and email or ftp it somewhere. I would suggest contacting Gaby and asking if she would like to host it on her site. - don > I don't have room on my home page (url below). > > Here's a sample of what's in them, from part of the .doc file for one of > the disks: > > ============================================= > > > KAYPRO USER'S DISK #10-------Assembly Language Disk > > Micro Cornucopia > PO BOX 223 > Bend OR 97709 > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > CROWECPM.COM > CROWECPM.DOC > CROWECPM.Z80 > > This program is for all of you that wanted a Z80 assembler without spending > hundreds of dollars for it. We modified the CROWE assembler so that it > would work under any CP/M system. CROWECPM accepts standard Zilog mnemonics > and creates a .HEX and .PRN files. The .HEX file is in Intel format and can > be used to create a .COM file with the CP/M LOAD.COM. A symbol table is > listed at the end of the .PRN file. It is a good assembler and the source > code is included if any one would like to make it even better. > > See CROWECPM.DOC for information on using the CROWECPM assembler. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > LASM.COM > LASM.DOC > > This is another assembler. It is a rewrite of the standard CP/M ASM > assembler. The difference is that this version can link assembly language > programs together at assembly time. This version also runs faster the > ASM.COM. This could be a the begininning of a linker for our Small C+. > > See LASM.DOC for details. > > ======================================================= > Neat stuff, obviously. > -- > Jim > > Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum! > http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2 From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 23 17:31:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: from "TeoZ" at Apr 23, 2003 05:12:28 PM Message-ID: <200304232229.h3NMTq84019278@shell1.aracnet.com> > Also on a related note, where the heck can you find a scsi card for a IIgs > that doesnt cost $50+? You might try dropping these folks a line, and see if they still have any. http://members.aol.com/webescsi/scsi/cie.html It's been a few years since I got one from them, but I only payed $30 for one, IIRC. Zane From kenziem at sympatico.ca Wed Apr 23 19:11:01 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Tonights pickings, Message-ID: <20030424000946.URAS4202.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Well today's been interesting. There was snow on the ground this morning. At a Lotusshpere today I won a pair of tickets to the hockey game this Friday. And I just returned with an Arix 800, (quite large, hard drives have been pulled but the tape drive and cards are there), a Wyse 60 terminal, a box of unisys docs for u5000, a tape with PDN-5000, and windows 286 in the plastic wrap, a scanner new in box, and two clones that are missing the drives but still have the cpu's and ram. I was also offered a very old telephone switchboard this past weekend. From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Apr 23 19:38:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Books & stuff sale plus need info SD Systems Message-ID: Hi All, Digging in the closet again. I have a collection of magazines and books for sale. Please write to me off list about the following. Paypal , money order, etc accepted. If your in michigan you can pick up. Naturally it will be cost plus shipping (actual). Kilobaud microcomputing ($1.00 per issue or will trade for issues #1-#27 of Kilobaud) July 1979 (#31) Sept 1979 (#33) Jan 1980 - March 1980 (#37-#39) June 1980 - Sept 1980 (#42- #45) Nov 1980 (#47) Okay how about the following books at $2.00 each How to build your own working robot pet - Dacosta 1979 (excellent book 8085 based) Engineering Electromagnetics - Hayt 1981 Communication Systems - An introduction to Signals and Noise in Electrical Communication- Carlson 1986 Electronic Circuit Analysis & Design - Hayt 1984 Computer Oriented Circuit Design - Kuo 1969 Computer-aided integrated circuit design - Herskowitz 1968 How about something completely different. Does anyone have documentation for the following: (all S-100 boards) SD Systems SBC-200 SD Systems Expandoram III Solid State Music ADL-1 SD Systems Versafloppy II Thanks again. Rob ps. Still no luck on the Teletype Model 32 documentation. I started going through the model 33 stuff. It's close BUT still not it. I think as I work on this project I'm going to take pictures and document what I do. I'll post it on my web site to help other Model 32 users. Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 23 19:52:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement Message-ID: http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/news/5699838.htm -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Apr 23 20:38:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: from Patrick Finnegan at "Apr 23, 3 05:07:49 pm" Message-ID: <200304240147.SAA10918@floodgap.com> > > Anybody have an extra one of those cards? Wouldnt mind getting my IIgs > > connected to the apple network :) > > Can't you just use one of the serial ports on the back as an AppleTalk > port? I seem to remember that you can do that, at least under GS/OS. Sure, it works just fine. Mine is connected to the Ethernet backbone through a Dayna EtherPrint-T LocalTalk-EtherTalk bridge. GS/OS 6.0.1 shares files with the Macs without problem. And again, if you have a ROM 03 IIgs, it can even netboot over LocalTalk from an Apple II-aware AppleShare server. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Emulate your heroes, but not if they're dead. ------------------------------ From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Apr 23 21:09:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030423212308.00a48c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> That's right here in the next town over. If it's an open courtroom I could go over there and check it out. I don't know about eBay and patent infringement, but I think eBay has a monopoly on the online auction market for private individuals which might warrant anti-trust action. I don't think a private individual would be able to sell many types of items anymore through a classified ad, and if they tried to use another online auction service, would do so poorly, that if they would like to do the best they can, just about have no choice but to list on eBay. Also, eBay has such power in this arena these days, i.e. no other online auction service for the private individual seems to be able to compete very well with them, that they got the sellers by the "nads". They don't seem to be very interested in the performance of their customers, i.e. the sellers. That's why I don't offer anything for sale on eBay anymore. I only buy on eBay these days. At 05:48 PM 4/23/03 -0700, you wrote: >http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/news/5699838.htm > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 23 21:59:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030423212308.00a48c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <69B79E82-7600-11D7-94A6-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, at 08:40 PM, Mail List wrote: > That's right here in the next town over. If it's an open courtroom I > could > go over there and check it out. > > I don't know about eBay and patent infringement, but I think eBay > has a monopoly on the online auction market for private individuals > which might warrant anti-trust action. I don't think a private > individual The fact that an entity may be the only viable player on a given field doesn't "warrant anti-trust action." If eBay is actively doing anything to hinder their competition, other than doing what they do VERY well, and marketing it well, *that* might warrant action. > would be able to sell many types of items anymore through a classified > ad, and if they tried to use another online auction service, would do > so > poorly, that if they would like to do the best they can, just about > have no I sell goods all the time on the austin.forsale newsgroup. As far as I'm concerned, eBay is an *asset* to that, not a detraction. eBay is the de facto Blue Book for used/surplus goods, allowing me to decide if my property is salable, whether it's worth more in cash than as a possession, and how to price it. It also shortstops lowballing by prospective customers. Naturally, it isn't the only resource I use, but it a very convenient and extremely well-organized asset for any seller, and for any buyer of either local or online goods. > choice but to list on eBay. Also, eBay has such power in this arena > these days, i.e. no other online auction service for the private > individual > seems to be able to compete very well with them, that they got the > sellers by the "nads". They don't seem to be very interested in the > performance of their customers, i.e. the sellers. That's why I don't > offer > anything for sale on eBay anymore. I only buy on eBay these days. As far as I can tell, and I haven't heard even a rumor of eBay leveraging their weight against the competition, the only reason the other online auction services aren't getting action is that they suck. Doc From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Apr 23 23:07:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <69B79E82-7600-11D7-94A6-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030423212308.00a48c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030423234605.00a4c100@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Doc, Your's is an interesting perspective. > the only reason the other online auction services aren't getting action is that they suck. They definitely do. But the reason they suck is that the others don't seem to have much variety or volume of interesting items for sale. > eBay is the de facto Blue Book for used/surplus goods Yet on this very same mailing list, many have said eBay prices are "artificially" inflated, etc. and that Michael's book is the more accurate guide to true market value. It really does still end up boiling down to each individuals perspective as eBay buyer's, eBay seller's, and hobbyist's goals vary quite widely. > As far as I can tell, and I haven't heard even a rumor of eBay leveraging their weight > against the competition I heard that with them being the Goliath that they are, they bought out and absorbed most of their potentially serious competitors. > other than doing what they do VERY well, and marketing it well Wouldn't that definition fit Microsoft as well. ( Being honest, and not just bashing Microsoft because it's the popular thing to do ). Yet Microsoft was brought up on anti-trust charges. > The fact that an entity may be the only viable player on a given field doesn't "warrant anti-trust action." If they were the only player that wanted to play, that would surely be so. But if almost no competition can make a dent in the market against such a Goliath, it seemed to me that was what the "anti-trust" laws were all about. But, IANAL, so I might be way off base in my thoughts on the matter. At 09:56 PM 4/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, at 08:40 PM, Mail List wrote: > >>That's right here in the next town over. If it's an open courtroom I could >>go over there and check it out. >> >>I don't know about eBay and patent infringement, but I think eBay >>has a monopoly on the online auction market for private individuals >>which might warrant anti-trust action. I don't think a private individual > > The fact that an entity may be the only viable player on a given field > doesn't "warrant anti-trust action." If eBay is actively doing anything > to hinder their competition, other than doing what they do VERY well, and > marketing it well, *that* might warrant action. > >>would be able to sell many types of items anymore through a classified >>ad, and if they tried to use another online auction service, would do so >>poorly, that if they would like to do the best they can, just about have no > > I sell goods all the time on the austin.forsale newsgroup. As far as > I'm concerned, eBay is an *asset* to that, not a detraction. eBay is the > de facto Blue Book for used/surplus goods, allowing me to decide if my > property is salable, whether it's worth more in cash than as a > possession, and how to price it. It also shortstops lowballing by > prospective customers. Naturally, it isn't the only resource I use, but > it a very convenient and extremely well-organized asset for any seller, > and for any buyer of either local or online goods. > >>choice but to list on eBay. Also, eBay has such power in this arena >>these days, i.e. no other online auction service for the private individual >>seems to be able to compete very well with them, that they got the >>sellers by the "nads". They don't seem to be very interested in the >>performance of their customers, i.e. the sellers. That's why I don't offer >>anything for sale on eBay anymore. I only buy on eBay these days. > > As far as I can tell, and I haven't heard even a rumor of eBay > leveraging their weight against the competition, the only reason the > other online auction services aren't getting action is that they suck. > > Doc From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Apr 23 23:13:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030325011536.027383e8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <000201c30a17$ef309550$6300a8c0@benchbox> In Roger's case, I know where he lives. He'd do better with Soviet equipment intended for Arctic exepeditions. No kidding. He's lucky to get to work on a proper winter's morning in a 4wd truck. Thank God once again that 30below's service area is unadulterated by hills, valleys or other such line-of-site obstacles or they never would have considered much less implemented a wireless Ethernet system. That system serves pretty darned well all things considered. An Amtrack or a m113 might be 'reliable transport' in the winter in his part of the world. They might even be too heavy to track through. An m1 or a 60 would be lost til' summer. Crew and all. My brother works at Roger's company. He runs an old 80's Chevy Blazer with all the stops pulled. My brother generally gets to work on time. In the Seabees, the Blazer was our Hmmv back in the old days. Different engine of course, but the same chassis. I don't remember there being heat in them but we were in the desert most of the time so that wouldn't come up would it? The Blazer in my brother's custom configuration could pull a freaking stump. A nice snowmobile is the only bulletproof way to go all the way up there short of Ezekiel's firey chariot. Best, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Roger Merchberger Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:28 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) At 01:05 03/25/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Quothe Roger Merchberger, from writings of Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 11:50:24PM >-0500: > > Altho the station wagons of days gone by could handle pretty decent loads, > > they always had the rear-view mirrors of a car... so I'll keep my > full-size > > 4x4, thanks! (horrible gas mileage & all...) > >Do you get less than 12 MPG on the highway and about 7 MPG or less in >the suburbs or cities? If not, then you might want to trade up to >something with lower gas mileage that can shock more people. :-) I've been wanting a new Avalanche... ;-) (well, everything *except* the pricetag/payments...) > Funny >thing... the fuel economy sticker in the station wagon's window, when >it was new and on the dealer's lot, read something like 18 MPG, but I >don't think this was ever achieved (is it possible for a 351C engine >to ever achieve mileage like that when the car weighs over 5000 lbs?) Dunno -- the last new vehicle I bought was a '89 S-15 mini-pickup, with a grand total of 3 options: rally wheels (the not *quite* ugly ones), split-rear window, and high-output alternator. No, it didn't even have a radio or lighter. Sticker said 26 Highway, I usually got 29-33. My 6000lb. truck I got used, fairly low mileage -- 350ci, Z71 offroad package... if I kept my foot out of the fuel-injection (<65mph) I could get 17-18 highway, but as the speedo climbed over 70, the mileage dipped... (and yes, I can tell you that at 115mph for 20 miles, I don't think I got 10mph... long, offtopic story... but it *was* an emergency. BTW, the truck had over 100K at that time, so it's a credit to Chevy's engineering... 140K now, gets 15hwy, and still starts NP w/o block heater at -30F. Yes, there's a reason for my email domain!) > > the 10-codes... my dad's a trucker, so I learned young. My handle was the > > "Whiz-Kid"]] My dad still has a CB (for channel 9...) but never uses it > > anymore -- because of the low S:N ratio. > >Thats why I keep one as well, in case the cell phone isn't working. >However, I wonder if it would even work with all of the high-power >transmitters blocking other people out. My Ham radio rig kept my bacon outta the fire more than a few times... ;-) > > To try to bring this ontopic - every time my friend moves his (rather > > heavy) Viewsonic 19" monitor, he complains about it's weight. (He does > > on-site digital photography; I help him out some weekends.) I remind him > > that I have a 17" that's just as heavy. He doesn't believe me. (The one > for > > my VaxStation 3100). Some nite I'll have him over for a beer, and teach > 'im > > a lesson... ;-) Then I'll let him pick up my DEC 19"... ;-) Who says > >Oooooh,.. cruel! ...to the monitor, that is. After all, what if he >drops it? He used to lay block & work construction... I wouldn't want him on the wrong side of a barfight... ;-) [ granted, that still doesn't stop him from bitching about the weight of his monitors... ] Considering by 35 I've had 2 heart attacks [10 years ago] and haven't been as serious as I should be about reclaiming my musculature since; the monitor's in a lot more danger when I pick it up than if he does... Gaak... 16 hours behind these damn things... I'm headed for the rack! Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Apr 23 23:21:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Stingray card for free to a tech who is smar(er?) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030327234017.029c5c00@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <000301c30a19$000d7d10$6300a8c0@benchbox> I would like to offer my Stingray memory card to anyone qualified to fix it. I've always had memory problems with my Sparcstation 4/330 and the stingray is no exception. Suspecting that cold solder joints might be the root, I resoldered the SIMM connections on this card. Testing shows this action rendered the card useless. Stingrays being fairly rare, I offer mine to someone smarter than I am to make it useful again. All you pay is shipping. Boy do I feel dumb. Again, no charge, just send me an envelope or a box and it is yours. Best. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Roger Merchberger Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 11:42 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Fw: [Suns-at-Home] [robc@solarflares.net: SPARCServer 2000, anyone want one?] At 22:08 03/27/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > In my experience, U.S. clothes dryers don't use twist-lock plugs. So > > I'd expect them to use a NEMA 6-20R or 6-30R non-locking receptacle. > >I have never seen a clothes dryer with a twist lock (but they may be out >there). > >For anyone interested in big machines from the 1980s and 90s, L6-30 is a >*very* common plug and socket combination, so salvage them whenever you >can - they are not cheap. I saved quite a few when I was deinstalling the >old NSFnet RS/6000-T3Bs. I am glad I did. Yes you are... I had to purchase (1) set of male & female connectors last year -- set me back darned near $60USD! Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From Cess120 at aol.com Wed Apr 23 23:30:01 2003 From: Cess120 at aol.com (Cess120@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Books & stuff sale plus need info SD Systems Message-ID: <30.3d5b2b92.2bd8c1ed@aol.com> I may have the info that you need on the SD boards. Larry From kd7bcy at teleport.com Wed Apr 23 23:39:00 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: 286 Computers (and an Apollo note) In-Reply-To: <200304231222.IAA16132@wordstock.com> References: <200304231222.IAA16132@wordstock.com> Message-ID: >*But* you can play Castle Wolfenstein 3D on them! ;) Why keep a 286 around when it does fine on my Mac? I don't play it much anymore, I bought the new Return to Castle Wolfenstein, someone told me it's based on the Quake 3 engine. Very nice, but needs a lot of memory. The Belkin Nostromo game controller really helps, too. But what am I supposed to do with the old PC's? I'm keeping the more interesting stuff like my PC and XT. And my personal favorite, the HP Vectra. But the typical beige box junk is cluttering up my basement. Everything from 286/386 parts to Pentium MMX systems, what can be done with them besides recycling the chassis and hoping you'll need the other parts eventually? I don't imagine many people need or want that old stuff, even on eBay. Speaking of eBay, I have some Apollo parts I'm going to put up just to see what happens. Odd stuff like WD7000 cards and memory cards and such. Once I gather up most of the other stuff I'll be offering it here on the list, but if you're interested in getting an old Apollo chassis and various parts and bits, let me know. I could probably ship the small stuff, but the big stuff is pretty heavy so I'd prefer to give it to someone local. I'll post a note here when I get it all together. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Apr 23 23:39:28 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <69B79E82-7600-11D7-94A6-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <000401c30a1b$8dc6da00$6300a8c0@benchbox> I agree wholeheartedly with Doc. It is one thing to have a type of service , and another entirely to have one which excludes certain users, types of users, or otherwise prevents free trade. Ebay is not (yet) a member of this group. They have done nothing wrong (Yet). Just because they are successful doesn't justify antitrust action. Best. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Doc Shipley Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 10:57 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: eBay being sued over patent infringement On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, at 08:40 PM, Mail List wrote: > That's right here in the next town over. If it's an open courtroom I > could > go over there and check it out. > > I don't know about eBay and patent infringement, but I think eBay > has a monopoly on the online auction market for private individuals > which might warrant anti-trust action. I don't think a private > individual The fact that an entity may be the only viable player on a given field doesn't "warrant anti-trust action." If eBay is actively doing anything to hinder their competition, other than doing what they do VERY well, and marketing it well, *that* might warrant action. > would be able to sell many types of items anymore through a classified > ad, and if they tried to use another online auction service, would do > so > poorly, that if they would like to do the best they can, just about > have no I sell goods all the time on the austin.forsale newsgroup. As far as I'm concerned, eBay is an *asset* to that, not a detraction. eBay is the de facto Blue Book for used/surplus goods, allowing me to decide if my property is salable, whether it's worth more in cash than as a possession, and how to price it. It also shortstops lowballing by prospective customers. Naturally, it isn't the only resource I use, but it a very convenient and extremely well-organized asset for any seller, and for any buyer of either local or online goods. > choice but to list on eBay. Also, eBay has such power in this arena > these days, i.e. no other online auction service for the private > individual > seems to be able to compete very well with them, that they got the > sellers by the "nads". They don't seem to be very interested in the > performance of their customers, i.e. the sellers. That's why I don't > offer > anything for sale on eBay anymore. I only buy on eBay these days. As far as I can tell, and I haven't heard even a rumor of eBay leveraging their weight against the competition, the only reason the other online auction services aren't getting action is that they suck. Doc From sleepyjackal at earthlink.net Wed Apr 23 23:57:00 2003 From: sleepyjackal at earthlink.net (Gary and the Samoyeds) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Radio Shack/Science Fair bonus References: <20030422190220.89949.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EA76819.3A73C20B@earthlink.net> Would a scan be adequate? I have a 28-225 and could (in time) send you images. Of course, if you are collecting, that won't help. -- Sic semper tyrannus Send eMail to ----> grenaud@acm.org. For contact info, see: http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/contact.htm From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 24 00:33:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Getting long; Was Re: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030423234605.00a4c100@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, at 11:05 PM, Mail List wrote: > > the only reason the other online auction services aren't getting > action is that they suck. > > They definitely do. But the reason they suck is that the others don't > seem to have much > variety or volume of interesting items for sale. Yahoo Auctions is the only other one I've really spent time on lately, and at least as far as Yahoo goes, I submit that you have put the cart before the horse. In my view, the reason they don't seem to have much variety or volume of interesting items for sale is that they suck. Their search engine is very poor, navigation of the categories is a nightmare, and they host far too much extraneous advertising. > > eBay is the de facto Blue Book for used/surplus goods > > Yet on this very same mailing list, many have said eBay prices are > "artificially" inflated, That's a patently ridiculous statement, the fact that it is made often notwithstanding. I _will_ grant that items often sell for far more than I would pay. But Bennett, the *definition* of market value is the price that the available buyer is willing to pay. eBay prices may be inflated, from a professional dealer's or an experienced hobbyist's perspective. For auction prices to be *artificially* inflated, as a general condition, is simply impossible, unless you assume consistent, fraudulent price-fixing. > etc. and that Michael's book is the more accurate guide to true market > value. It really > does still end up boiling down to each individuals perspective as eBay > buyer's, eBay > seller's, and hobbyist's goals vary quite widely. Well, yeah. As I said, I do use other pricing tools. I match my pricing to my market, and my market to the price I need. For instance, I have a stack of HP C160 workstations I'd like to sell. I won't put them on eBay, because the shipping will exceed the probable selling price, the size of the machine make them a mother to crate, and I'd get a barrage of "I'll buy it if you'll just send me X part" requests. I'll sell them locally, on the newsgroup, for a little less than I'd get on eBay. On those, convenience is the bottom line, not the dollar value. Further, who the prospective buyer is makes a difference. J Random Idjit will pay eBay prices. Hobbyists I've traded with or expect to trade with get deep discounts from market wholesale. The resellers I deal with pay wholesale, or more often trade at wholesale. If I have to get market, I offer it to friends and lists at near eBay prices, explaining the cash crunch, then eBay it. That's the case with the Laserbus and XMI gear I'm about to put on the market. Some buyers will pay 3x or 4x retail, if I'll sell to them at all. I have a very long memory, and my temper takes precedence over my wallet every time. > I heard that with them being the Goliath that they are, they bought > out and absorbed > most of their potentially serious competitors. Not illegal, or even unethical, as long as it's done within SEC regs, and other federal guidelines. > > other than doing what they do VERY well, and marketing it well > > Wouldn't that definition fit Microsoft as well. ( Being honest, and > not just bashing > Microsoft because it's the popular thing to do ). Yet Microsoft was > brought up on > anti-trust charges. Now that's just a huge red herring,and doesn't fit at all. Honestly? I use MS products maybe once a month. Nothing to do with fashion - I just prefer a secure and stable computing platform. MS *doesn't* do their job well, although they market it well. As far as anti-trust issues are concerned, Microsoft was not charged with having too large a share of the market. MS was charged with exerting undue influence - active coercion - on their customers, using that market share as leverage. eBay has never even been accused of coercing their customers to do anything, and I flatly fail to see that as being even possible. To claim that their paying customers, the eBay sellers, have no other venue is laughable. > > The fact that an entity may be the only viable player on a given field > > doesn't "warrant anti-trust action." > > If they were the only player that wanted to play, that would surely be > so. But if almost > no competition can make a dent in the market against such a Goliath, > it seemed to > me that was what the "anti-trust" laws were all about. But, IANAL, so > I might be way > off base in my thoughts on the matter. The anti-trust laws are about using market share, and absence of viable competitors, to exert undue or unwarranted influence on that market. eBay is the Goliath they are because they provide a good product, not because of unethical practices. [Like Jeffrey Worley said, "Yet"] To go with your metaphor, all it takes is one David with a better idea to bring them down to size. Doc From paulm064 at icqmail.com Thu Apr 24 02:19:00 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: ISA Expansion Box References: <00a401c30940$f4e1c6e0$a600a8c0@glenn> Message-ID: <003e01c30a33$85a50460$c455ddcb@earth2> i've never actually seen one of these. If somone has clear pics can they make them available for download. if not to complicated might be able to make one using an isa riser card that came with an old 486. do they connect to serial port or piggyback an isa slot? paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Ervinat home" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: ISA Expansion Box > Hello Jeff, > I saw your post on the IBM machine which used an ISA Expansion Box, and I am > looking for such a box, or 2 or 3. > Would you know where I could get my hands on some? > The Blind (myself included) like using our synthetic speech cards along with > the software synthetic speech that comes from the sound card. Usually the > sound cards produce a more pleasant speech output, but if the soundcard > stops working, we are screwed, so we would like to keep using the older > speech cards (ISA). > I have been doing some web searches without much luck. > Thanks for any leads. > > "Live long and prosper", > O. Glenn Ervin (Lenny) > N0YJV > Northeast Nebraska > e-mail: > GlennErvin@cableONE.net > The above address can also be found on MSM. > or my work e-mail: > gErvin@ncbvi.state.ne.us From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Apr 24 02:30:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement Message-ID: <9d.380fc712.2bd8ec1b@aol.com> The suit is over the process of running the auction which another person patented in the early 90s. It is an interesting suit. At one time in 2000 or so eBay offered to pay licensing fees, then opted to fight it. Actually, as a seller, I think the eBay process sucks. It is the second best bidder that really sets the price. The advantage really is to the bidder. Another very successful Internet auction run by LabX is a much preferred model for me. It is where the sale is extended by a minute or two when each bid comes in at the end of the auction. WWW.labx.com I do much better for lab equipment here than on eBay. Auctions are much more like real auctions. LabX is a totally different, more real auction model. Very successful also. I did an interesting experiment with some identical Olympus microscope tubes (parts). They did sell for much more on eBay than LabX (av $75 vs. $20). On the other hand an IBM HPLC did much better on LabX than eBay ($400 vs $35) and saw a lot of action at the end. To keep this on topic I do find classic computers on the LabX auction site that were primarily used as lab controllers. They often go cheap. Paxton Astoria, OR From paulm064 at icqmail.com Thu Apr 24 02:48:00 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: sharp pc-7000a manual scans Message-ID: <007901c30a37$85455b60$c455ddcb@earth2> i am seeking scans of any and all manuals for sharp pc-7000a portable computer. can any one help? thanks paul From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Apr 24 04:31:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: COSMAC Elf (was Re: Source of Vintage CPUs...) References: Message-ID: <010e01c30a44$3ef1e540$0100000a@milkyway> Patrick Rigney wrote: > its shielding, and found... an RCA CDP1806, two 1852s, an RCA-branded > 6116, and three other support chips. The label on the 27128 EPROM on > the board says "(C) 1984". Wow. Those COSMACs get everywhere - deep space probes, hobby computers, alarm panels... Yes, I do have an Elf. Yes, it does have an 1861 VIDC fitted. No, it's not for sale. It's the first computer I built from scratch, most of the parts are modern and there's a photo of it on www.cosmacelf.com. If anyone wants a better photo or in depth specs of my Elf, let me know. About the only mod I've made to it is the display - I couldn't get any Hewlett Packard hex displays so I bought some TI TIL311s and fitted them. For those of you looking for TIL311s, TI also branded them as "DIS1417". I bought some of those from a hamfest in October last year and I'm planning to buy more this year if I see any lying around. They're nice displays, even if they are power hungry little beasts. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Apr 24 08:38:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys Message-ID: Not knowing much about Apples, how can I tell which ROM is on a IIgs motherboard? I have one that I pulled from the trash, and don't need. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 5:18 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Two new Apple toys > > These would also work in a IIgs wouldn't they? > > Probably, but you don't need one for a ROM 03 IIgs -- they have built-in > boot-over-LocalTalk support. I wish I had a ROM 03 IIgs, but then I also wish I had room to have my IIe and IIgs setup. Unfortunatly all my Apple II stuff is in storage. :^( Zane From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Thu Apr 24 08:40:01 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: How to build a working digital computer book In-Reply-To: <3EA76819.3A73C20B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I recently acquired the awesome book "How to build a working digital computer" by Alcosser, Phillips and Wolk. Within the next year (as time allows) I want to (re)construct this computer. I know this book was discussed on here before. Maybe there are other people out there now who are in the process of building it or built it before. I would like to get in touch with anybody who has experience building it. The only website I found on so far that shows a built "Paperclip computer" is this one: http://www.apparent-wind.com/mbr/emmerack.html If anybody knows any other pictures of a built "Paperclip computer" on the net, please let me know. Greetings Herbert Computer Museum of Nova Scotia From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Apr 24 09:16:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: from "Feldman, Robert" at "Apr 24, 3 07:35:57 am" Message-ID: <200304241425.HAA07650@floodgap.com> > Not knowing much about Apples, how can I tell which ROM is on a IIgs > motherboard? I have one that I pulled from the trash, and don't need. I don't know the numbers. It's easiest to fire it up and see what it says on the bootup banner (a ROM 00 says nothing, ROM 01 and 03 both announce themselves). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Two wrongs don't make a right, but they do make a great TV movie. ---------- From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Apr 24 09:34:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Getting long; Was Re: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030423234605.00a4c100@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424095728.00a48cc0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Doc, > Yahoo Auctions is the only other one I've really spent time on lately I was checking Yahoo periodically for some items. While eBay had a full page or two every day, Yahoo usually had not a single one. I finally just gave up because soon seemed a waste of time. > eBay prices may be inflated, from a professional dealer's or an experienced > hobbyist's perspective. I'm quite happy with eBay prices, though only occasionally the product quality is poor, or items are unfortunately sometimes mis-described. > For auction prices to be *artificially* inflated, as a general condition, is simply > impossible, unless you assume consistent, fraudulent price-fixing. Not impossible. There is the potential for the occasional abuse in "shill bidding", etc. But, perhaps I should not have said "artifically" It was only a restatement of what I thought I had understood that some other people thought that this was so. > MS was charged with exerting undue influence - active coercion - on their customers, > using that market share as leverage. No one ever had to buy Microsoft products. They always could have gone with the Macintosh platform, or a Unix system. > eBay has never even been accused of coercing their customers to do anything Just as no one has to buy or sell on eBay. But for an interesting read on some of eBay's customer's viewpoints, scan the eBay DNF message board every time eBay comes up with a new way to charge their sellers more money for another new "feature". They aren't all wonderfully overjoyed with eBay. eBay also has monitors that monitor that message board, and they suspended "Tag" for voicing an opinion they didn't wish heard. > The anti-trust laws are about using market share, and absence of viable competitors, > to exert undue or unwarranted influence on that market. eBay market share is the largest by a landfall. No other online auction service seems to be a viable competitor. eBay has become a very serious marketplace. There is Federal oversight on the stock and commodities markets. eBay has gotten to be such a big thing these days, oversight over the online auction market might be needed someday too. At 12:31 AM 4/24/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, at 11:05 PM, Mail List wrote: >> > the only reason the other online auction services aren't getting >> action is that they suck. >> >>They definitely do. But the reason they suck is that the others don't >>seem to have much >>variety or volume of interesting items for sale. > > Yahoo Auctions is the only other one I've really spent time on lately, > and at least as far as Yahoo goes, I submit that you have put the cart > before the horse. In my view, the reason they don't seem to have much > variety or volume of interesting items for sale is that they suck. Their > search engine is very poor, navigation of the categories is a nightmare, > and they host far too much extraneous advertising. > >> > eBay is the de facto Blue Book for used/surplus goods >> >>Yet on this very same mailing list, many have said eBay prices are >>"artificially" inflated, > > That's a patently ridiculous statement, the fact that it is made often > notwithstanding. I _will_ grant that items often sell for far more than > I would pay. But Bennett, the *definition* of market value is the price > that the available buyer is willing to pay. > eBay prices may be inflated, from a professional dealer's or an > experienced hobbyist's perspective. For auction prices to be > *artificially* inflated, as a general condition, is simply impossible, > unless you assume consistent, fraudulent price-fixing. > >>etc. and that Michael's book is the more accurate guide to true market >>value. It really >>does still end up boiling down to each individuals perspective as eBay >>buyer's, eBay >>seller's, and hobbyist's goals vary quite widely. > > Well, yeah. As I said, I do use other pricing tools. I match my > pricing to my market, and my market to the price I need. For instance, I > have a stack of HP C160 workstations I'd like to sell. I won't put them > on eBay, because the shipping will exceed the probable selling price, the > size of the machine make them a mother to crate, and I'd get a barrage of > "I'll buy it if you'll just send me X part" requests. >I'll sell them locally, on the newsgroup, for a little less than I'd get >on eBay. On those, convenience is the bottom line, not the dollar value. > Further, who the prospective buyer is makes a difference. J Random > Idjit will pay eBay prices. Hobbyists I've traded with or expect to > trade with get deep discounts from market wholesale. The resellers I > deal with pay wholesale, or more often trade at wholesale. > If I have to get market, I offer it to friends and lists at near eBay > prices, explaining the cash crunch, then eBay it. That's the case with > the Laserbus and XMI gear I'm about to put on the market. > > Some buyers will pay 3x or 4x retail, if I'll sell to them at all. I > have a very long memory, and my temper takes precedence over my wallet > every time. > >>I heard that with them being the Goliath that they are, they bought out >>and absorbed >>most of their potentially serious competitors. > > Not illegal, or even unethical, as long as it's done within SEC regs, > and other federal guidelines. > >> > other than doing what they do VERY well, and marketing it well >> >>Wouldn't that definition fit Microsoft as well. ( Being honest, and not >>just bashing >>Microsoft because it's the popular thing to do ). Yet Microsoft was >>brought up on >>anti-trust charges. > > Now that's just a huge red herring,and doesn't fit at > all. Honestly? I use MS products maybe once a month. Nothing to do > with fashion - I just prefer a secure and stable computing platform. MS > *doesn't* do their job well, although they market it well. > As far as anti-trust issues are concerned, Microsoft was not charged > with having too large a share of the market. MS was charged with > exerting undue influence - active coercion - on their customers, using > that market share as leverage. > eBay has never even been accused of coercing their customers to do > anything, and I flatly fail to see that as being even possible. To claim > that their paying customers, the eBay sellers, have no other venue is > laughable. > > > > The fact that an entity may be the only viable player on a given field > > > doesn't "warrant anti-trust action." >> >>If they were the only player that wanted to play, that would surely be >>so. But if almost >>no competition can make a dent in the market against such a Goliath, it >>seemed to >>me that was what the "anti-trust" laws were all about. But, IANAL, so I >>might be way >>off base in my thoughts on the matter. > > The anti-trust laws are about using market share, and absence of viable > competitors, to exert undue or unwarranted influence on that market. > eBay is the Goliath they are because they provide a good product, not > because of unethical practices. [Like Jeffrey Worley said, "Yet"] > To go with your metaphor, all it takes is one David with a better idea > to bring them down to size. > > Doc From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Apr 24 09:46:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys Message-ID: Starting it up is a bit of a problem, as I just have the system box -- no monitor or software, and I shipped the RAM expansion card to TeoZ. -----Original Message----- From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@floodgap.com] Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 9:26 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Two new Apple toys > Not knowing much about Apples, how can I tell which ROM is on a IIgs > motherboard? I have one that I pulled from the trash, and don't need. I don't know the numbers. It's easiest to fire it up and see what it says on the bootup banner (a ROM 00 says nothing, ROM 01 and 03 both announce themselves). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Two wrongs don't make a right, but they do make a great TV movie. ---------- From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Apr 24 09:54:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <9d.380fc712.2bd8ec1b@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424103800.00a23670@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Paxton, > Actually, as a seller, I think the eBay process sucks. Scan the DNF message board. A lot of other sellers share that same sentiment. > The advantage really is to the bidder. And if eBay can capture the bidders, the sellers have little choice but to follow. That's why, having both sold and bought on eBay, I find eBay is great for buying, but for selling, not quite as good. Still has some good points from a selling perspective, i.e. huge exposure, etc. but there are some characteristics that are not so good for the seller. > a much preferred model for me. It is where the sale is extended by a minute or two > when each bid comes in at the end of the auction. Yes, that one feature takes the teeth out of sniping. That model is what the GSA auctions uses. And they are selling their own ( all of our's actually ) stuff and want to do the best they can on it. > On the other hand an IBM HPLC did much better on LabX than eBay ($400 vs $35) > and saw a lot of action at the end. Big difference, and I'm sure you were well able to find a good use for it. At 03:28 AM 4/24/03 -0400, you wrote: >The suit is over the process of running the auction which another person >patented in the early 90s. It is an interesting suit. At one time in 2000 or >so eBay offered to pay licensing fees, then opted to fight it. > >Actually, as a seller, I think the eBay process sucks. It is the second best >bidder that really sets the price. The advantage really is to the bidder. > >Another very successful Internet auction run by LabX is a much preferred >model for me. It is where the sale is extended by a minute or two when each >bid comes in at the end of the auction. WWW.labx.com > >I do much better for lab equipment here than on eBay. Auctions are much more >like real auctions. LabX is a totally different, more real auction model. >Very successful also. > >I did an interesting experiment with some identical Olympus microscope tubes >(parts). They did sell for much more on eBay than LabX (av $75 vs. $20). On >the other hand an IBM HPLC did much better on LabX than eBay ($400 vs $35) >and saw a lot of action at the end. > >To keep this on topic I do find classic computers on the LabX auction site >that were primarily used as lab controllers. They often go cheap. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR From cb at mythtech.net Thu Apr 24 09:56:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys Message-ID: >Starting it up is a bit of a problem, as I just have the system box -- no >monitor or software, and I shipped the RAM expansion card to TeoZ. You should still be able to boot it. There is a composite RCA output on the back. That will plug into anything that takes composite video (TV, VCR, game/tv adaptor box, whatever). It also uses a standard PC power cord. Plug those two things in, flip the switch, and you should get to the BIOS boot screen that will tell you the rom version. You won't get much further without software, drives, keyboard and anything else you might want to use... but at least you should get as far as knowing the ROM version. -chris From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Apr 24 10:14:01 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424103800.00a23670@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.c om> References: <9d.380fc712.2bd8ec1b@aol.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030424103800.00a23670@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.c om> Message-ID: <33299.130.76.32.21.1051197163.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> > > a much preferred model for me. It is where the sale is extended by a > minute or two > > when each bid comes in at the end of the auction. > This hurts the seller and should make no difference to the bidder. NO ONE should ever bid more than they are willing to pay. But with sniping, people often bid a little higher just to protect their bid. If there is an extention bids will still not rise higher than anyone is willing to bid. I have seen auctions go for $400 on items that normally wouldn't sell for $300. One bidder contacted me because two people bid that $400 and he said, "I guess I got stuck. I was just trying to protect my bid." He paid the auction but clearly bid more than he ever expected or wanted to pay. The people that whine the most about sniping, NEVER win auctions, unless they are the first to see a "low" buy-it-now, on popular items. They just NEVER bid high enough and would lose anyway. From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Apr 24 10:17:01 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Getting long; Was Re: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424095728.00a48cc0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.c om> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030423234605.00a4c100@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.c om> <5.1.1.6.2.20030424095728.00a48cc0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.c om> Message-ID: <18181.130.76.32.21.1051197322.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> > > eBay prices may be inflated, from a professional dealer's or an > experienced > > hobbyist's perspective. > Actually, they are not inflated at all. Before ebay, prices were depressed because of the lack of exposure to the item. Supply and demand was still at work but the demand side is very much increased by ebay. On items were there is a fixed supply, like antiques and collectibles, the only side of the equation that can increase is demand. Therefore, the price rises to the fair and correct value. Simple! Of course, those that are whining about not being able to find bargains, don't believe that. :-) From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Apr 24 10:43:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys References: Message-ID: <002d01c30a77$0f8890a0$3c281941@neo.rr.com> There is memory on the motherboard, you dont need the expansion card to boot it (card came in handy BTW). It uses ADB mouse and keyboard so if you have that your set. Monitor is probably the only problem. An old mac monitor would probably work. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 10:43 AM Subject: RE: Two new Apple toys > Starting it up is a bit of a problem, as I just have the system box -- no > monitor or software, and I shipped the RAM expansion card to TeoZ. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@floodgap.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 9:26 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Two new Apple toys > > > > Not knowing much about Apples, how can I tell which ROM is on a IIgs > > motherboard? I have one that I pulled from the trash, and don't need. > > I don't know the numbers. It's easiest to fire it up and see what it says > on the bootup banner (a ROM 00 says nothing, ROM 01 and 03 both announce > themselves). > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ > -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Two wrongs don't make a right, but they do make a great TV movie. > ---------- From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 24 10:43:34 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: ISA Expansion Box In-Reply-To: <003e01c30a33$85a50460$c455ddcb@earth2> Message-ID: <20030424154150.37784.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- pmulry wrote: > i've never actually seen one of these. If somone has clear pics can they > make them available for download. if not to complicated might be able to > make one using an isa riser card that came with an old 486. do they > connect to serial port or piggyback an isa slot? They are a box with a passive ISA back plane and a pair of ISA cards that are connected with a single round cable about as big around as your thumb. The box itself is styled like an XT (down to the sloping front). -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 24 10:45:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Radio Shack/Science Fair bonus In-Reply-To: <3EA76819.3A73C20B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20030424154255.25616.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary and the Samoyeds wrote: > Would a scan be adequate? I have a 28-225 and could (in time) send you > images. Of course, if you are collecting, that won't help. That would be fine. Don't send the scans to the list (they'll be filtered out, anyway). Put them up on a website and make an announcement. Thanks, -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From jss at subatomix.com Thu Apr 24 10:45:22 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <9d.380fc712.2bd8ec1b@aol.com> References: <9d.380fc712.2bd8ec1b@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030424154851.GA12362@subatomix.com> On Thursday, April 24, 2003, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > Actually, as a seller, I think the eBay process sucks. It is the second > best bidder that really sets the price. The advantage really is to the > bidder. I feel that the advantage quite frequently tilts to the seller. When two or more bidders are competing in the final moments of an auction, they get caught in the excitement of battle, and those psychological forces induce them to place bids higher then they would have normally placed. I have experienced it both as a seller and as a bidder. > Another very successful Internet auction run by LabX is a much preferred > model for me. It is where the sale is extended by a minute or two when > each bid comes in at the end of the auction. WWW.labx.com My favorite idea is simply to have sealed bids. That is, you don't know the high bid until the auction closes. Doing it that way prevents last-minute psychology from causing bad decisions. -- Jeffrey Sharp From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Apr 24 11:06:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: New finds this week Message-ID: I found some new toys out at Purdue Surplus this week... 2xIBM RS/6000 model 220 -- POWER single chip 33MHz 2xIBM RS/6000 model 250 -- PowerPC 601, 66MHz The one I opened had both memory and a hard disk, and all but one of them still had their keys. These things are nice pizza-box sized things, I'm tempted to try and use them as X-Terminals, since they do have framebuffers. Has anyone tried this before? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From cb at mythtech.net Thu Apr 24 11:06:46 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys Message-ID: >It uses ADB mouse and keyboard so if you have that your set. Monitor is >probably the only problem. An old mac monitor would probably work. No, it probably won't work with a mac montior. The Mac uses a different style RGB. But, the IIgs does have composite video as well as RGB, so you can always use the composite video in absence of the right RGB monitor. Mac ADB keyboards and mice are fully compatible with the IIgs. -chris From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Apr 24 11:09:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030424154851.GA12362@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <003a01c30a7b$93436ab0$0181a8c0@k4jcw> Out of curiosity, why is it in my best interest as a seller to prevent people from making rash decisions? Unless you're a very strange seller, most sellers are out to get the maximum amount they can for the item in question. It's not my moral or social responsibility to keep others from making stupid decisions. If you're old enough to bid/sell on eBay (and RL auctions), you're old enough to decide if you're spending too much or not (and I'm not talking about mispresented products). This is very much NOT like preying on old people for home repairs. eBay may turn into an addiction for some, but no one MAKES you press the 'bid' button. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 11:49 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: eBay being sued over patent infringement > > > On Thursday, April 24, 2003, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > > Actually, as a seller, I think the eBay process sucks. It > is the second > > best bidder that really sets the price. The advantage > really is to the > > bidder. > > I feel that the advantage quite frequently tilts to the > seller. When two or > more bidders are competing in the final moments of an > auction, they get > caught in the excitement of battle, and those psychological > forces induce > them to place bids higher then they would have normally > placed. I have > experienced it both as a seller and as a bidder. > > > Another very successful Internet auction run by LabX is a > much preferred > > model for me. It is where the sale is extended by a minute > or two when > > each bid comes in at the end of the auction. WWW.labx.com > > My favorite idea is simply to have sealed bids. That is, you > don't know the > high bid until the auction closes. Doing it that way > prevents last-minute > psychology from causing bad decisions. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Apr 24 11:10:01 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:11 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030424154851.GA12362@subatomix.com> References: <9d.380fc712.2bd8ec1b@aol.com> <20030424154851.GA12362@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <1108.130.76.32.21.1051200505.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> > My favorite idea is simply to have sealed bids. That is, you don't know > the > high bid until the auction closes. Doing it that way prevents last-minute > psychology from causing bad decisions. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > Why would a seller ever buy into this system? The only thing the seller cares about is getting the best price. Further, that is all that eBay cares about. NO SYSTEM that make it easy to get a steal, will ever be adopted. The only systems that will ever win out are the ones that offer sellers high returns. The seller will simply choose the medium that will offer the greater return. You say the bidders will just go where there are lower prices. But the problem is there won't be anything to buy. Collectible type items have a fixed number available and there will always be someone who is willing to pay a higher price. So, the sellers have all the cards in this game. From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Thu Apr 24 11:15:01 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: Getting long; Was Re: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <18181.130.76.32.21.1051197322.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <20030424161302.77316.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike wrote: > On items were there is a fixed supply, like antiques > and collectibles, the > only side of the equation that can increase is > demand. Therefore, the > price rises to the fair and correct value. Simple! > Wrong, the "available" supply has also increased on many fixed supply collectibles. People are digging stuff out of their closets that would of never been available for sale before, or available to only a very limited number of people. Many collectible items that were considered very rare before ebay, are now just considered common place, and prices have dropped greatly even though the actual supply has been constant. This also applies to commodity items, I can by caps, resistors, IC's, power cords cheaper on ebay then anywhere else (the availablility is erratic though). Items that are very unique, or in mint condition have, on average, increased in price because the supply is truly limited, in the end I think its a wash, some items have drop in value other risen... The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Apr 24 11:18:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <33299.130.76.32.21.1051197163.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQue st.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424103800.00a23670@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.c om> <9d.380fc712.2bd8ec1b@aol.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030424103800.00a23670@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.c om> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424120435.00a52ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Mike, > But with sniping, people often bid a little higher just to protect their bid. That might be the case some of the time, but with extensions, a bidder has the opportunity to re-evaluate their decision, and go higher if they want to. With the snipe, you calculate what you think might do it, enter the bid, and then see how it ends ( for the seasoned bidder anyway ). > "I guess I got stuck. I was just trying to protect my bid." That "protecting the bid" strategy can backfire on the bidder just as you saw. > The people that whine the most about sniping, NEVER win auctions I hope you don't interpret my discussion as whining about sniping. I always snipe and usually win whenever I really want to. > The people that whine the most about sniping, NEVER win auctions, ... > they just NEVER bid high enough and would lose anyway. You're generally right. Most buyers that might whine about sniping are just expressing their disappointment that they couldn't buy the item as inexpensively as they had wished to. But from the sellers perspective, the exact ending time and the sniping would sometimes prevent their from being able to reach their best potential selling price. At 08:12 AM 4/24/03 -0700, you wrote: > > > a much preferred model for me. It is where the sale is extended by a > > minute or two > > > when each bid comes in at the end of the auction. > > > >This hurts the seller and should make no difference to the bidder. > >NO ONE should ever bid more than they are willing to pay. But with >sniping, people often bid a little higher just to protect their bid. If >there is an extention bids will still not rise higher than anyone is >willing to bid. > >I have seen auctions go for $400 on items that normally wouldn't sell for >$300. One bidder contacted me because two people bid that $400 and he >said, "I guess I got stuck. I was just trying to protect my bid." He >paid the auction but clearly bid more than he ever expected or wanted to >pay. > >The people that whine the most about sniping, NEVER win auctions, unless >they are the first to see a "low" buy-it-now, on popular items. They just >NEVER bid high enough and would lose anyway. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Apr 24 11:30:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030424154851.GA12362@subatomix.com> References: <9d.380fc712.2bd8ec1b@aol.com> <9d.380fc712.2bd8ec1b@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424121938.00a48010@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Jeffrey, > When two or more bidders are competing in the final moments of an auction, they > get caught in the excitement of battle, and those psychological forces induce them > to place bids higher then they would have normally placed. I have experienced it both > as a seller and as a bidder. This happens sometimes. I've been there. Sometimes my best way to keep from getting caught up in it is to enter my bid ( that hopefully only purely rational thought has gone into making that decision, leaving emotion out of it ) into a bid sniping service, and then walking away from it. Come back after it's all over and then see if the item was won or not. > My favorite idea is simply to have sealed bids. A sealed bid sale is effectively where every bid is the same as the snipe bid. I'd bid at a few sealed bid sales. I generally liked them, but again, you don't have the chance to change your mind and increase your bid if you're not the high bidder. At 10:48 AM 4/24/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Thursday, April 24, 2003, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > > Actually, as a seller, I think the eBay process sucks. It is the second > > best bidder that really sets the price. The advantage really is to the > > bidder. > >I feel that the advantage quite frequently tilts to the seller. When two or >more bidders are competing in the final moments of an auction, they get >caught in the excitement of battle, and those psychological forces induce >them to place bids higher then they would have normally placed. I have >experienced it both as a seller and as a bidder. > > > Another very successful Internet auction run by LabX is a much preferred > > model for me. It is where the sale is extended by a minute or two when > > each bid comes in at the end of the auction. WWW.labx.com > >My favorite idea is simply to have sealed bids. That is, you don't know the >high bid until the auction closes. Doing it that way prevents last-minute >psychology from causing bad decisions. > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Apr 24 11:34:01 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming Message-ID: All, Got this from the guy in Houston who supplied the VAX VLC machines. Contact him (best) or me if you are interested. >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:33:16 -0500 (CDT) >From: sandmann@clio.rice.edu (Charles Sandmann) >Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming ... > >I was just notified today by the ChemE department head at Rice that it >is time to clean out one of the labs. It has mostly PDP stuff, some >VAX stuff, documentation, some media. KZ's going to make a rough list >so we can estimate the volume. The VAX stuff has been used in the last >year, but most of the PDP stuff has been off for 8 years or more, so >may need some TLC when being checked out the first time (if you don't >know about power supply caps, you probably shouldn't ask :-) I've made >some promises for some of this stuff already - but if there is something >you are dying for, it might be a good time to remind me. Between the >Rice stash and the AspenTech stash, there should be lots of machines >for everyone. > >If Intel IRMX (?) means anything to anyone, bug me. I think thats the >system name - and they are rare (but not DEC stuff ...) > >I think we will keep the extra RS6000/AIX IBM systems for spare parts >for clio - but you never know... > >I know there are some VT103s (VT100 systems with built in dual TU58s >and QBUS backplanes) - lots of QBUS cards, an 11/23+ rack mount system, >BA123 based MicroVAX II with ESDI and RQDX3/RD54 disks. I think the >11/23+ has an RQDX1 with RD51 drive (don't cringe!), dual RX02s >(I have a requirement to be able to read some media on these first!) > >There is a requirement to take lots of pictures for our scrapbook :-) From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Apr 24 11:38:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <003a01c30a7b$93436ab0$0181a8c0@k4jcw> References: <20030424154851.GA12362@subatomix.com> <003a01c30a7b$93436ab0$0181a8c0@k4jcw> Message-ID: <39056.130.76.32.21.1051202170.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> > Out of curiosity, why is it in my best interest as a seller to prevent > people from making rash decisions? Unless you're a very strange seller, > most sellers are out to get the maximum amount they can for the item in > question. It's not my moral or social responsibility to keep others from > making stupid decisions. If you're old enough to bid/sell on eBay (and RL > auctions), you're old enough to decide if you're spending too much or not > (and I'm not talking about mispresented products). > > This is very much NOT like preying on old people for home repairs. eBay > may turn into an addiction for some, but no one MAKES you press the 'bid' > button. > > --John It's clearly not. But as I mentioned before, the only one whining about this are the ones that used to find "steals" and are not complaining because they can't get these "steals." I have heard very many new people on eBay saying they "don't care" about the high prices that others "perceive." They know that is their only opportunity to get those items. The only ones being hurt by the eBay model are the ones that still want "bargains". From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Apr 24 11:38:23 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: Supply and Demand (Was RE: Getting long; Was Re: eBay being sued. ..) Message-ID: While it is true that the ultimate numbers of an item are fixed, in this situation, it can be argued that the supply is not constant, since many the closeted items would likely have gone out in the Spring Cleaning trash. As long as there are only 3 of X for sale, then the demand will be high. The higher demand saves and brings out more items, the supply goes up, and the price (eventually, depending in part on the rate at which new supply appears) will go down. -----Original Message----- From: steve [mailto:gkicomputers@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 11:13 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Getting long; Was Re: eBay being sued over patent infringement People are digging stuff out of their closets that would of never been available for sale before, or available to only a very limited number of people. Many collectible items that were considered very rare before ebay, are now just considered common place, and prices have dropped greatly even though the actual supply has been constant. From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Apr 24 11:41:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: Getting long; Was Re: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030424161302.77316.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> References: <18181.130.76.32.21.1051197322.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> <20030424161302.77316.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <19513.130.76.32.21.1051202333.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> > --- Mike wrote: > > >> On items were there is a fixed supply, like antiques >> and collectibles, the >> only side of the equation that can increase is >> demand. Therefore, the >> price rises to the fair and correct value. Simple! >> > Wrong, the "available" supply has also increased on > many fixed supply collectibles. People are digging > stuff out of their closets that would of never been > available for sale before, or available to only a very > limited number of people. Only by an insignificant amount. If only 10,000 of an item was ever produced, the supply can't exceed that but the exposure could go from a few hundred that might see it otherwise to millions. The proof of that is that prices are rising. They are rising because there is more increase demand than an increase in supply. Supply and demand is on duty 24/7. From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Apr 24 11:43:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming References: Message-ID: <00cd01c30a7f$920f33a0$3c281941@neo.rr.com> Any old software getting dumped? I am a ChemE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Tapley" To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 12:05 PM Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming > All, > Got this from the guy in Houston who supplied the VAX VLC machines. > Contact him (best) or me if you are interested. > > >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:33:16 -0500 (CDT) > >From: sandmann@clio.rice.edu (Charles Sandmann) > >Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming > ... > > > >I was just notified today by the ChemE department head at Rice that it > >is time to clean out one of the labs. It has mostly PDP stuff, some > >VAX stuff, documentation, some media. KZ's going to make a rough list > >so we can estimate the volume. The VAX stuff has been used in the last > >year, but most of the PDP stuff has been off for 8 years or more, so > >may need some TLC when being checked out the first time (if you don't > >know about power supply caps, you probably shouldn't ask :-) I've made > >some promises for some of this stuff already - but if there is something > >you are dying for, it might be a good time to remind me. Between the > >Rice stash and the AspenTech stash, there should be lots of machines > >for everyone. > > > >If Intel IRMX (?) means anything to anyone, bug me. I think thats the > >system name - and they are rare (but not DEC stuff ...) > > > >I think we will keep the extra RS6000/AIX IBM systems for spare parts > >for clio - but you never know... > > > >I know there are some VT103s (VT100 systems with built in dual TU58s > >and QBUS backplanes) - lots of QBUS cards, an 11/23+ rack mount system, > >BA123 based MicroVAX II with ESDI and RQDX3/RD54 disks. I think the > >11/23+ has an RQDX1 with RD51 drive (don't cringe!), dual RX02s > >(I have a requirement to be able to read some media on these first!) > > > >There is a requirement to take lots of pictures for our scrapbook :-) From marvin at rain.org Thu Apr 24 11:47:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424103800.00a23670@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3EA814AF.54322E3B@rain.org> Mail List wrote: > > Hi Paxton, > > > Actually, as a seller, I think the eBay process sucks. > Scan the DNF message board. A lot of other sellers share that same sentiment. That feeling is, at least from what I have seen, not a universal one. What seems to be far more reaching is the feeling that the ebay management is incompetent from the standpoint of running auctions. They are incredibly inept at making decisions that will help the sellers, and incredibly arrogant at forcing their ideas on the ebay community. The DNF Board (Discuss Newest Features Board for those who don't know) has a number of people who are *very* familiar with the workings of ebay and help out where they can. The DNF Board has a tradition of people seeing how many multiple posts they can make at 22:22:22 Ebay (Pacific Coast) time. The current record is 17 in the single second. This is done manually and is actually a lot of fun. Take a look at: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/tuz.htm for more information. I wrote this after I became (briefly) the reigning champion with 8 or so posts. The DNF Board is at: http://chatboards.ebay.com/chat.jsp?forum=1&thread=2 > > a much preferred model for me. It is where the sale is extended by a > > minute or two when each bid comes in at the end of the auction. > Yes, that one feature takes the teeth out of sniping. Sniping is a requirement unless the bidder doesn't mind being the bid price going up. I made a suggestion to ebay years ago that sealed bids should be allowed that would only become known after the auction had ended. That would encourage bidders to make a realistic bid of what they are willing to pay, and make the sniping issue irrelevant. Of course, since that would benefit the sellers, it was ignored. From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Apr 24 11:50:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming References: Message-ID: <00b001c30a81$4f823c60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I'd be most interested in a good condition VT100, or perhaps a VT103 Jay West From marvin at rain.org Thu Apr 24 11:51:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: Getting long; Was Re: eBay being sued over patentinfringement References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030423234605.00a4c100@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.c om> <5.1.1.6.2.20030424095728.00a48cc0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.c om> <18181.130.76.32.21.1051197322.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <3EA815AA.3932630A@rain.org> Mike wrote: > > Of course, those that are whining about not being able to find bargains, > don't believe that. :-) Bargains are certainly to be found. Spelling errors, bad descriptions, wrong catagories, etc. all make bargains possible for those people willing to find them. Not too long ago, I bought the January 1975 Popular Electronics magazine (along with some others) for $25.00; the going price is $80 - $135 for that issue. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Apr 24 12:02:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping Message-ID: <200304241659.JAA12425@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Mike > >> > a much preferred model for me. It is where the sale is extended by a >> minute or two >> > when each bid comes in at the end of the auction. >> > >This hurts the seller and should make no difference to the bidder. > >NO ONE should ever bid more than they are willing to pay. But with >sniping, people often bid a little higher just to protect their bid. If >there is an extention bids will still not rise higher than anyone is >willing to bid. > >I have seen auctions go for $400 on items that normally wouldn't sell for >$300. One bidder contacted me because two people bid that $400 and he >said, "I guess I got stuck. I was just trying to protect my bid." He >paid the auction but clearly bid more than he ever expected or wanted to >pay. > >The people that whine the most about sniping, NEVER win auctions, unless >they are the first to see a "low" buy-it-now, on popular items. They just >NEVER bid high enough and would lose anyway. > Hi I'd once sniped a bid with a value of $145 for an item I wanted. Knowing the current going rate for the item, $120 was about the highest I'd seen. The winning bid, also a last minute bid, went for something over my highest. A couple of days latter, I got a note from the seller. The asked if I was still interested. They didn't specify a price so I told them that I thought a fair price would be 1/2 between the my high price and the next lowest below me( it was $90 ). They said that I should pay the full $145. I told them that that was a proxy bid that wouldn't have been exposed if the other bidder hadn't backed out and that if I'd won the bid at that price, I'd have honored it but since I didn't, I was not obligated to pay that amount and that it was inappropriate for them to demand that I did, considering that it was not a completed auction. They claimed that I was wrong and that I was obligated to pay my high bid. Anyway, later, I found that the same buyer had purchased a number of different items from this seller. What was strange was the variety of the types of items they bought. To be honest, it really looked like it was a shill bid. Now I tell sellers that I will only purchase through eBay and not after bidding when the other seller backs out. There is more to the story but this gives you the idea. Dwight From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Apr 24 12:26:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <200304241659.JAA12425@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <003b01c30a86$4a39c020$0181a8c0@k4jcw> Why sniping is good: Many people get upset about having auctions sniped. All this garbage about extending auctions an extra minute, blah blah blah, is just a dumb idea. The reason I regularly snipe is purely psychological: If you enter a bid early on in an item, you're expressing an interest. This likely drives the price up, since *most* people seem unwilling to set hard prices and stick to them. My procedure it to set the price when I notice the item, basically, what's worth to me. I then track the item, and don't bother bidding if it goes over my limit. However, if the closing time comes around, and it's still below my limit, I want until about 3 seconds before close, and submit. If you're not fast enough, or haven't set a higher price, you lose. I have no moral quandries about this. There is nothing that I have, do, or know that makes me a better bidder than anyone else. Simply the ability to stick to my price, and not show early interest, driving prices up unnecessarily. And as for the "no interest" technique, no one can gripe about that. I've seen plenty of buyers at junk stores, hamfests, auctions, etc, that desparately want an item, but make it seem like "eh, whatever". Why? Because they *know* if you say "Damn, this is the coolest widget ever, one of only 5 ever made, I *have* to have it!" they're quite likely to clue the seller in, or in any case, drive the price up. Buy low, sell high. To do otherwise is a Enron-esque business model, and just plain nuts. --John From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 24 12:32:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <9d.380fc712.2bd8ec1b@aol.com> Message-ID: <7B266BE4-767A-11D7-AF0E-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Thursday, April 24, 2003, at 02:28 AM, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > Actually, as a seller, I think the eBay process sucks. It is the > second best > bidder that really sets the price. The advantage really is to the > bidder. I'll grant that eBay is heavily slanted to the buyer, and that it's far from perfect. My point was that eBay isn't breaking any anti-trust laws by being the "Goliath" of online auctions. I also still maintain that if the exposure didn't offset the difficulty, sellers would be flocking elsewhere in droves. > Another very successful Internet auction run by LabX is a much > preferred > model for me. It is where the sale is extended by a minute or two when > each > bid comes in at the end of the auction. WWW.labx.com I think we've discussed that feature - the "last-bid extension" - on CCmp before. I firmly believe that eBay, not only the auction house and sellers, but eBay buyers as well, would benefit from that feature. In truth, I don't do much selling on eBay. I do have several acquaintances who make their living at it, but I don't handle enough volume to require it often. I just let the folks I know know it's there, and somebody almost always wants it. Wow. I just got off the phone with my boss, and a guy we used to race karts against/with is a plaintiff in the infringement suit. A little closer to home.... Doc From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Thu Apr 24 12:40:00 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <200304241659.JAA12425@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20030424173757.44436.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > Hi > I'd once sniped a bid with a value of $145 for an > item I wanted. > Knowing the current going rate for the item, $120 > was about the > highest I'd seen. The winning bid, also a last > minute bid, went > for something over my highest. A couple of days > latter, I got > a note from the seller. The asked if I was still > interested. > They didn't specify a price so I told them that I > thought > a fair price would be 1/2 between the my high price > and the > next lowest below me( it was $90 ). In this situation I always offer what the final auction price would of been if the top bidder didn't exist, that is, the high bid of the third bidder, $90 in your case, I am suprised you offered more then that. (well its actually $90 + bid increment, probably $91.50 or so) The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Apr 24 13:10:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping Message-ID: <200304241808.LAA12479@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I have no problem with sniping, other than that I can't always be around at the last minute. The only time I didn't like being sniped was the first item I lost to this method. Once I understood what was going on, I couldn't understand why bidders would make incremental bids. I usually will post a lower bid, early on. This way, other savy bidders will check what I've previously bid on items and they will either back out or, in those cases that they just have to have an item, they will out bid me. I think it tends to even out the play field. I always look to see what other bidders have been doing. I wouldn't mind having a combination of open and sealed bits. I could then snipe without having to wait till the last minute. Dwight >From: "J.C.Wren" > >Why sniping is good: > > Many people get upset about having auctions sniped. All this garbage about >extending auctions an extra minute, blah blah blah, is just a dumb idea. >The reason I regularly snipe is purely psychological: If you enter a bid >early on in an item, you're expressing an interest. This likely drives the >price up, since *most* people seem unwilling to set hard prices and stick to >them. > > My procedure it to set the price when I notice the item, basically, what's >worth to me. I then track the item, and don't bother bidding if it goes >over my limit. However, if the closing time comes around, and it's still >below my limit, I want until about 3 seconds before close, and submit. > > If you're not fast enough, or haven't set a higher price, you lose. I have >no moral quandries about this. There is nothing that I have, do, or know >that makes me a better bidder than anyone else. Simply the ability to stick >to my price, and not show early interest, driving prices up unnecessarily. > > And as for the "no interest" technique, no one can gripe about that. I've >seen plenty of buyers at junk stores, hamfests, auctions, etc, that >desparately want an item, but make it seem like "eh, whatever". Why? >Because they *know* if you say "Damn, this is the coolest widget ever, one >of only 5 ever made, I *have* to have it!" they're quite likely to clue the >seller in, or in any case, drive the price up. > > Buy low, sell high. To do otherwise is a Enron-esque business model, and >just plain nuts. > > --John From allain at panix.com Thu Apr 24 13:29:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping References: <003b01c30a86$4a39c020$0181a8c0@k4jcw> Message-ID: <008201c30a8f$0b2e7160$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Since this seems the time to air eBay gripes, I thought I'd add mine. Little complaint about the system on the face of it. But my main complaint is on the oft published figure of 1 fraud out of 10,000*. Now, I've done a LOT less than that number of purchases, and in that time I've seen enough frauds to make me want to push the number closer to 1:200... That's a pretty big difference. Secondary to that is just the hilarious lack of control over how the seller will disclose his acceptable payment methods, or shipping price. Some will leave everything out of the eBay system and send a personal eMail, Some threaten "Do Not use Unified Checkout", others will send nothing and rely completely on Unified Checkout... while still leaving off the shipping price. Then there's the sellers who claim to accept Check/Money Order on the offer page but the UC'out will Only have PayPal. Makes me think its all a mess sometimes. So, they should be more honest about fraud, and they should make Unified Checkout work for everyone. just my $0.02 bid John A. *may have even been 1:40,000. Anyway, way off. From patrick at evocative.com Thu Apr 24 13:55:01 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: OT: eBay being sued over patent infringement (et al) In-Reply-To: <3EA815AA.3932630A@rain.org> Message-ID: Going back to where this started: Sellam posted a link about eBay being sued over patent infringement. What are the real merits of this case? I know Jerry Kaplan founded OnSale in 1994. I haven't read the patent, but I know that eBay is not unique in what it is doing, and it wasn't the first. Whether or not we LIKE eBay, it may be worth considering how the service would change if they lost the suit, and how this would affect ALL similar sites, including Yahoo, DoveBid, etc. For myself, I'm very concerned that the USPTO has issued many frivolous and unwarranted patents for processes that existed previously and/or are too obvious or trivial. eBay was also recently sued by a company that claims to have a patent on the caching of data for presentation in a user interface, for example. The patent describes a caching mechanism that is generally the way most web browsers interoperate with a web server. The USPTO is, IMHO, overwhelmed and missing critical resources and subject matter experts in the evaluation of its applications. Grave mistakes have been made, and to me the article to which Sellam refers is just another (quite alarming) reminder of that fact. I offer patent #6,549,904 - a patent granted to Amazon.com just LAST WEEK for "A method and system for generating notifications of auctions based on user notification requests", which is in summary, you choose categories of items and identifying keywords, and the system will email you when matching auctions are found. This is now a patented process, and whoever felt this was a process unique and worthy enough of a patent needs a performance review, IMHO. I get at least one email a day from eBay and Yahoo Auctions, which is now evidence of their infringement as of 4/15/2003. Patrick Patent 6,549,904: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/net ahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=6,549,904&OS=6,549,904 &RS=6,549,904 Caching: http://www.internalmemos.com/memos/memodetails.php?memo_id=1210 From jrice54 at charter.net Thu Apr 24 14:03:01 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <200304241808.LAA12479@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200304241808.LAA12479@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3EA833F1.3040403@charter.net> I can't always be around at the end so I use esnipe. It costs a penny per dollar of the final price on a winning bid, but if I want something bad enough, it's worth it. I was told by a friend that was cheating. Why? Because I pay a server to snipe for me? If I get snipe, I don't really care, I must have not wanted it as bad as they did. I'm also really getting tired of everyone bad mouthing ebay. I work 50-60 hours a week, every week. I don't have time to hunt through junk shops and salvage yards for bargains. I can use my time to make more money and do my collecting on ebay. And let UPS deliver to my office. I paid $342 for a Daystar Millennium last night because I want one to finish out my Daystar clone collection. Is it worth $342.00? I don't know but, I really don't care if it is or not, because I wanted it. When I sell something, I usually use ebay. I've offered things in private sales to people on mailing lists and get tired of getting low-balled on offers. On ebay, it's a worldwide market and there is always someone who wants almost everything. If I have to have a certain price for something, I set a reserve. Free enterprise will set the proper price for any item. James Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >Hi > I have no problem with sniping, other than that >I can't always be around at the last minute. >The only time I didn't like being sniped was the >first item I lost to this method. Once I understood >what was going on, I couldn't understand why bidders >would make incremental bids. I usually will post >a lower bid, early on. This way, other savy bidders >will check what I've previously bid on items and >they will either back out or, in those cases that >they just have to have an item, they will out bid >me. I think it tends to even out the play field. >I always look to see what other bidders have been doing. > I wouldn't mind having a combination of open and >sealed bits. I could then snipe without having >to wait till the last minute. >Dwight From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Apr 24 14:07:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: How to build a working digital computer book References: Message-ID: <3EA8355B.6010504@cox.net> I want to know where you are getting this stuff!! (So I can try to get there before you next time!) -Bryan The Design Fort DTP wrote: >I recently acquired the awesome book "How to build a working digital >computer" by Alcosser, Phillips and Wolk. Within the next year (as time >allows) I want to (re)construct this computer. > >I know this book was discussed on here before. Maybe there are other people >out there now who are in the process of building it or built it before. I >would like to get in touch with anybody who has experience building it. > >The only website I found on so far that shows a built "Paperclip computer" >is this one: >http://www.apparent-wind.com/mbr/emmerack.html > >If anybody knows any other pictures of a built "Paperclip computer" on the >net, please let me know. > >Greetings >Herbert >Computer Museum of Nova Scotia From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 24 14:09:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: OT: eBay being sued over patent infringement (et al) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <080FC1C0-7688-11D7-AF0E-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Thursday, April 24, 2003, at 01:53 PM, Patrick Rigney wrote: > What are the real merits of this case? I know Jerry Kaplan founded > OnSale > in 1994. I haven't read the patent, but I know that eBay is not > unique in > what it is doing, and it wasn't the first. Whether or not we LIKE > eBay, it > may be worth considering how the service would change if they lost the > suit, > and how this would affect ALL similar sites, including Yahoo, DoveBid, > etc. I don't have any details, but I can say that one of the plaintiffs also holds patent to several processes basic to PayPal, and eBay is paying royalties on those with no argument. He developed iEscrow as well. I'm _guessing_, based on those facts, that David's claim, at least, isn't frivolous. Please don't ask me for any details past the above -- I won't give them, for several obvious reasons. Doc From marvin at rain.org Thu Apr 24 14:33:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping References: <003b01c30a86$4a39c020$0181a8c0@k4jcw> <008201c30a8f$0b2e7160$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3EA83B68.AEEACEEE@rain.org> The way Checkout is set up, it cannot work for everyone as it does not allow for all the variables that can take place; various shipping methods (ups, usps, etc), shipping costs (vary by zip code), insurance (tied to carrier and amount of insurance), international shipping, and a host of other issues including privacy concernss. Fraud is most certainly an issue. Ebays response is basically "trust us" when they haven't earned that trust, and in fact, have done a number of things to give reasons for *not* trusting them ... as well as their new acquisition PayPal. John Allain wrote: > > Since this seems the time to air eBay gripes, I thought I'd add mine. > > Little complaint about the system on the face of it. But my main complaint > is on the oft published figure of 1 fraud out of 10,000*. Now, I've done a > LOT less than that number of purchases, and in that time I've seen enough > frauds to make me want to push the number closer to 1:200... That's a > pretty big difference. > Secondary to that is just the hilarious lack of control over how the seller > will disclose his acceptable payment methods, or shipping price. > Some will leave everything out of the eBay system and send a personal > eMail, Some threaten "Do Not use Unified Checkout", others will send > nothing and rely completely on Unified Checkout... while still leaving off > the shipping price. Then there's the sellers who claim to accept > Check/Money Order on the offer page but the UC'out will Only have > PayPal. Makes me think its all a mess sometimes. > > So, they should be more honest about fraud, and they should make > Unified Checkout work for everyone. > > just my $0.02 bid > John A. > > *may have even been 1:40,000. Anyway, way off. From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Apr 24 14:33:45 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <003b01c30a86$4a39c020$0181a8c0@k4jcw> References: <200304241659.JAA12425@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> At 18:23 24/04/2003, you wrote: >All this garbage about >extending auctions an extra minute, blah blah blah, is just a dumb idea. I dispute that - the "extension" idea is what happens in a "normal" auction. The auctioneer will take bids until all competing bidders back out, leaving the one winner. This, naturally, maximises the sale price (which is good for the seller & the auction house). As for sniping itself, I personally have no real problem with it (and do it myself, frequently). It's also interesting (from a psychological POV) as a seller: I sell very little on eBay, but I find myself watching my own auction(s) coming to a close & wondering how many snipe bids there'll be... Personally, I'd like to see eBay introduce the *option* of self-extending auctions, which continue past their deadline until 5 mins (for example) after the last bid is placed. That way, as a seller, I get to choose whether I want sniper bids or not. It's entirely possible that an extending auction will /reduce/ the final sale price (since people are less likely to get completely carried away with a top bid); but for popular items I suspect the reverse is true, since more people are likely to bid for longer right at the end. Uninteresting (probably) collarary: I recenly won two Sinclair Cambridge Programmable calcs, both in excellent condition, one of them in the original (and remarkably un-battered) box c/w instructions, etc. Normally, tatty un-boxed examples of these machines go for around £45 each. I got both for £25.01. Chuffed, I was. However, the usual last second malarkey was going on, and I'd only bid £25 at the start, fully expecting the price to hit about £50-£60 or so before the last-second rush. Obviously, though, the professional snipers were away that day, since there were only a few bids upping the price towards my £25 limit. When it hit £24, though, I panicked & bid again (with 2 seconds to spare), thus raising the price over my own bid by 1 pence... Duh! -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Apr 24 14:39:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <3EA833F1.3040403@charter.net> References: <200304241808.LAA12479@clulw009.amd.com> <200304241808.LAA12479@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030424203326.01af2e78@slave> At 19:58 24/04/2003, James Rice wrote: >Is it worth $342.00? I don't know but, I really don't care if it is or >not, because I wanted it. Then it obviously /is/ worth $342. To you. It's not worth $0.01 to me. The relative values of things to people - especially collector items - is so variable as to be almost meaningless. I'd have happily paid £100 for a Sharp MZ-80K two years ago. Now I'll baulk at anything over about £25, and I'd prefer it free. Why? Because I have two of them now. Their relative value to me as a purchaser has changed significantly for reasons which are totally unrelated to their "real" value. Same goes for the MZ-80A & B, of which I have 2 & 1 examples respectively. I'd still pay £50 or so for a VGC "B", as the one I have has a slightly dubious keyboard & a nasty scratch in the screen which I don't think is repairable. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Apr 24 14:46:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: from chris at "Apr 24, 3 12:04:44 pm" Message-ID: <200304241956.MAA03548@floodgap.com> > > It uses ADB mouse and keyboard so if you have that your set. Monitor is > > probably the only problem. An old mac monitor would probably work. > > No, it probably won't work with a mac montior. The Mac uses a different > style RGB. There is a IIgs-specific monitor available (pity they use the same plug, it confuses a lot of people) -- I think it's called the AppleColour RGB. It took me a little while to track one down, but it's well worth it (especially in GS/OS). > But, the IIgs does have composite video as well as RGB, so you can always > use the composite video in absence of the right RGB monitor. Yep, a friend of mine uses a Commodore 1702 with his. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- When you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly. ----------------------- From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Apr 24 14:57:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> References: <200304241659.JAA12425@clulw009.amd.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> Message-ID: <39290.130.76.32.21.1051214093.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> > At 18:23 24/04/2003, you wrote: > > >>All this garbage about >>extending auctions an extra minute, blah blah blah, is just a dumb idea. > > I dispute that - the "extension" idea is what happens in a "normal" > auction. The auctioneer will take bids until all competing bidders back > out, leaving the one winner. This, naturally, maximises the sale price > (which is good for the seller & the auction house). Absolute nonsense! In a normal auction, there is no specified "end time." These are two completely different formats. In a normal auction, everyone shows up at the same time and bids. Bidding is only for a few minutes. In an eBay auction (a completely different format) everyone has a very long time to decide. If you had an extended time feature (or pathetic idea) no one would bid on a 10 day auction until day 10. There would be no need to, unless you just couldn't be around. What you are trying to do is have a completely new format for an auction. Specified end time with extended provision. You don't have any such "NORMAL" auction like this. The only reason people place early bids on eBay is because they are thinking like this is a "NORMAL" auction, which it is NOT. This is like a sealed bid auction because the auction ends at a specified time and the winners will be those that place last second bids (i.e. not seen by others). From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Thu Apr 24 15:04:00 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: Publishing old manuals and books on the web. Legal? In-Reply-To: <3EA833F1.3040403@charter.net> Message-ID: Hi all, I'm in the process of digitizing a lot of old manuals and books. Some pieces I want to make downloadable on my website. But I don't want to run into trouble with copyright etc. Does anybody have experience with publishing old stuff on the internet? I'm thinking about stuff like Heathkit manuals, or the "How to build a digital computer" book. Or articles of old Popular Electronics magazines that are relevant to vintage computers. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Herbert Computer Museum of Nova Scotia From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 24 15:06:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <39290.130.76.32.21.1051214093.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: On Thursday, April 24, 2003, at 02:54 PM, Mike wrote: > > If you had an extended time feature (or pathetic idea) no one would > bid on ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's rude, gratuitous, antagonistic, escalatory and uncalled for. Regardless of agreement/disagreement with the proposition, there's no point or profit in being uncivil about it. Doc From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Apr 24 15:33:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping References: <003b01c30a86$4a39c020$0181a8c0@k4jcw> <008201c30a8f$0b2e7160$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <004d01c30a9f$97f50180$3c281941@neo.rr.com> There was only 1 auction I didnt go thrrough on, this was for some old memory I wanted that was cheap. The auction specifically stated checks were ok. Once I won the guy said he only wanted a money order. I didnt feel like getting a money order at the time since I was busy as hell so I told him forget about it. If you state a check is ok, then its OK. If not keep your item. These days I pay mostly by paypal. I have never got burned on a transaction so far from EBAY, newsgroups, or from people I talk to on swaplists or websites. I must be lucky. I even had one computer show up DOA (purchased on ebay)and the guy sent me another one even before I shipped the dead one. I also purchased an old ISA video card needed for a game rig from a guy on a newsgroup that was doa but he replaced it without any fuss. I think the most I ever spent on 1 item was maybe $200. I guess if your buying more expensive items the chance of fraud goes up quite a bit more. Expecially on any graded collectables like stamps,coins,porcelin etc... ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "CCTalk" Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 2:26 PM Subject: Re: eBay sniping > Since this seems the time to air eBay gripes, I thought I'd add mine. > > Little complaint about the system on the face of it. But my main complaint > is on the oft published figure of 1 fraud out of 10,000*. Now, I've done a > LOT less than that number of purchases, and in that time I've seen enough > frauds to make me want to push the number closer to 1:200... That's a > pretty big difference. > Secondary to that is just the hilarious lack of control over how the seller > will disclose his acceptable payment methods, or shipping price. > Some will leave everything out of the eBay system and send a personal > eMail, Some threaten "Do Not use Unified Checkout", others will send > nothing and rely completely on Unified Checkout... while still leaving off > the shipping price. Then there's the sellers who claim to accept > Check/Money Order on the offer page but the UC'out will Only have > PayPal. Makes me think its all a mess sometimes. > > So, they should be more honest about fraud, and they should make > Unified Checkout work for everyone. > > just my $0.02 bid > John A. > > *may have even been 1:40,000. Anyway, way off. From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Apr 24 15:40:01 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <3EA833F1.3040403@charter.net> References: <200304241808.LAA12479@clulw009.amd.com> <3EA833F1.3040403@charter.net> Message-ID: <1051216522.2129.64.camel@nazgul.pao.digeo.com> On Thu, 2003-04-24 at 11:58, James Rice wrote: > I can't always be around at the end so I use esnipe. It costs a penny > per dollar of the final price on a winning bid, but if I want something > bad enough, it's worth it. I was told by a friend that was cheating. > Why? Because I pay a server to snipe for me? If I get snipe, I don't > really care, I must have not wanted it as bad as they did. > I have mixed feelings about sniping. I've lost a number of bids to "snipers". The thing that bugs me about it is that for items I care about, I don't have an opportunity to respond to the snipe. Most of the bids I've lost due to sniping have been where I was the original bidder and there were no other bidders until the snipe. I think this is unfair to not only me, but the seller as well. For example I may have put in a max bid on something for $30. An esnipe comes in for $31. Upon seeing that I may have re-assed my bid and bid it to $50. But because esnipes happen in the last few seconds, I can't respond and the seller potentially looses additional funds for the item. But in the end, if I wanted really badly, I would have bid more. So it's a tough call. > I'm also really getting tired of everyone bad mouthing ebay. I work > 50-60 hours a week, every week. I don't have time to hunt through junk > shops and salvage yards for bargains. I can use my time to make more > money and do my collecting on ebay. And let UPS deliver to my office. > I paid $342 for a Daystar Millennium last night because I want one to > finish out my Daystar clone collection. Is it worth $342.00? I don't > know but, I really don't care if it is or not, because I wanted it. > When I sell something, I usually use ebay. I've offered things in > private sales to people on mailing lists and get tired of getting > low-balled on offers. On ebay, it's a worldwide market and there is > always someone who wants almost everything. If I have to have a certain > price for something, I set a reserve. Free enterprise will set the > proper price for any item. I don't have a problem with e-bay. Sometimes people get into a feeding frenzy over an item which drives the price on an item way up. I look for items on e-bay that I either think I will get a bit of a discount on rather than finding it at a dealer or it's just not available elsewhere. There are also sellers who think their items are worth more than they really are, but as you said free enterprise will determine the proper price. -- TTFN - Guy From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Apr 24 15:49:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <39290.130.76.32.21.1051214093.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQue st.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> <200304241659.JAA12425@clulw009.amd.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030424213803.01afa488@slave> At 20:54 24/04/2003, you wrote: > > At 18:23 24/04/2003, you wrote: > > > > > >>All this garbage about > >>extending auctions an extra minute, blah blah blah, is just a dumb idea. > > > > I dispute that - the "extension" idea is what happens in a "normal" > > auction. The auctioneer will take bids until all competing bidders back > > out, leaving the one winner. This, naturally, maximises the sale price > > (which is good for the seller & the auction house). > >Absolute nonsense! In a normal auction, there is no specified "end time." Er, so? > These are two completely different formats. In a normal auction, >everyone shows up at the same time and bids. Bidding is only for a few >minutes. Rather like a typical eBay auction then. >In an eBay auction (a completely different format) everyone has a very >long time to decide. Only because (a) there's so many items on eBay, and (b) it operates in several time zones. Imagine having to login to eBay every day at 3pm (then adjust for timezone) just to bid on an item. >If you had an extended time feature (or pathetic idea) no one would bid on >a 10 day auction until day 10. There would be no need to, unless you just >couldn't be around. So, rather like the current format. >What you are trying to do is have a completely new format for an auction. Bullshit. The format is identical, with a built-in "anti-snipe" measure. >Specified end time with extended provision. You don't have any such >"NORMAL" auction like this. Of course you do. "Normal" auctions are held on a specific day, which in real-world terms is much the same thing as an eBay end time. Hell, you even have "buy-it-now" (sold prior, in a normal auction format), withdrawn & changed lots. >This is like a >sealed bid auction because the auction ends at a specified time and the >winners will be those that place last second bids (i.e. not seen by >others). Absolute bullshit. A sealed bid auction does not allow you to bid more than once, nor do you know if your bid has been exceeded. Nor is there any advantage/disadvantage in bidding early or late, as no-one knows what the bids are until the auction finishes. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Apr 24 15:50:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: OT: eBay being sued over patent infringement (et al) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > [...] > > For myself, I'm very concerned that the USPTO has issued many > frivolous and unwarranted patents for processes that existed > previously and/or are too obvious or trivial. eBay was also recently > sued by a company that claims to have a patent on the caching of data > for presentation in a user interface, for example. The patent > describes a caching mechanism that is generally the way most web > browsers interoperate with a web server. The USPTO is, IMHO, > overwhelmed and missing critical resources and subject matter experts > in the evaluation of its applications. Grave mistakes have been made, > and to me the article to which Sellam refers is just another (quite > alarming) reminder of that fact. > > [...] I'd agree that US patent law and the USPTO allows far too much "intellectual property" to be protected by patents. The patenting of business processes and practices seems absurd to me, and I'm not entirely supportive of the idea of patenting software. In my opinion, eBay is getting a raw deal with this, but only because I don't think that patenting the concept of online auctions should be allowed. However, our laws allow for it to be patented, so, unless eBay can get that patent thrown out, legally they're obligated to abide by the patent holder's licensing terms. On a more personal note, I like to believe that there is some sort of legal karma coming into play. A little over a year ago, I'd registered the domain name joebay.org, putting up a website for an acquaintence of mine, a guy named Joe Bay. Within a few weeks of registering the domain and setting up the site, I received a cease and desist letter from eBay's legal department stating that I was infringing their trademark with "joebay". They cited the 1999 Anti-cybersquatting and Consumer Protection Act and insisted that I stop using the domain name or face litigation and levying of monetary damages. Mind you, there wasn't anything on my site even /remotely/ related to eBay, online auctions, or any sort of e-commerce. It was strictly a personal site for a guy named Joe Bay. Fortunately I was able to have some helpful folks at the Stanford Law School volunteered to handle the C&D letter for me, and they put together a very stern reply for eBay telling them they really didn't have a leg to stand on. We never heard anything back from them, but I did decide to let the domain name registration expire this year to avoid any further hassles from them. I'm very happy with the service eBay offers to sellers and buyers; it's a great business idea and they've executed it very well, IMHO, but I've little sympathy for their situation. What goes around comes around. -brian. From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Apr 24 16:04:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <69B79E82-7600-11D7-94A6-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030423212308.00a48c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424140340.02f8ddd0@mail.zipcon.net> At 09:56 PM 4/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, at 08:40 PM, Mail List wrote: > >>That's right here in the next town over. If it's an open courtroom I could >>go over there and check it out. >> >>I don't know about eBay and patent infringement, but I think eBay >>has a monopoly on the online auction market for private individuals >>which might warrant anti-trust action. I don't think a private individual > > The fact that an entity may be the only viable player on a given field > doesn't "warrant anti-trust action." If eBay is actively doing anything > to hinder their competition, other than doing what they do VERY well, and > marketing it well, *that* might warrant action. They are, the state of Illinois? has a new law that was pushed through with the help of ebay requiring the operators of any Internet auction site to register with that state "if any potential sellers or buyers reside within the state" at a fee of $200. of course you also have to find an auctioneer to "sponsor" you and you have to take state approved courses to maintain the registration (auction calling, and the like) :( the state is getting ready to start filing civil lawsuits seeking damages of up to $10,000 and the shutting down of the offending sites if you don't comply. For small auction site operators like my wife (she hasn't made any $ from the thing yet and it's been running for > 6 months) that state's requirements are onerous. From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Apr 24 16:21:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030424213803.01afa488@slave> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> <200304241659.JAA12425@clulw009.amd.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424213803.01afa488@slave> Message-ID: <46214.130.76.32.21.1051219141.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> >>Specified end time with extended provision. You don't have any such >>"NORMAL" auction like this. > > Of course you do. "Normal" auctions are held on a specific day, which in > real-world terms is much the same thing as an eBay end time. Hell, you > even > have "buy-it-now" (sold prior, in a normal auction format), withdrawn & > changed lots. At best, that is a stretch. A specified end time, is just what it means. eBay is exactly what a sealed bid auction is. A "normal" auction can theoretically go for days. An ebay auction ends at X:YY period. Those that bid early are just people that make a bid and announce what they bid. But those that place their sealed bids at the end are unknown until the end of the auction. Any auction, where there is any real interest, is ALMOST NEVER won by an early bid; making them essentially non-bids. >>This is like a >>sealed bid auction because the auction ends at a specified time and the >>winners will be those that place last second bids (i.e. not seen by >>others). > > Absolute bullshit. A sealed bid auction does not allow you to bid more > than > once, nor do you know if your bid has been exceeded. Nor is there any > advantage/disadvantage in bidding early or late, as no-one knows what the > bids are until the auction finishes. Sure they do. Maybe some don't but many sealed bid auctions allow you to get your bid back and make a change. Until the end of the auction, you can do as you like. The auction you propose is: 1) one with a fixed end time that is published 2) has an extension period for x amount of minutes. There exists NO such auction in the real world. Only in your imagination for a format that you think will give you a better chance of winning. But the bottom line is, you don't win, unless you have the high bid. That is what ebay does; that is what any real world auction does. What you want is one that you can change your mind, essentially, after the auction should have ended. You want an auction where they auctioneer says, "Sold!" and you stand up and say, "I was sleeping. Give me one more minute." From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Apr 24 16:21:42 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping Message-ID: <46297.130.76.32.21.1051219142.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> >>Specified end time with extended provision. You don't have any such >>"NORMAL" auction like this. > > Of course you do. "Normal" auctions are held on a specific day, which in > real-world terms is much the same thing as an eBay end time. Hell, you > even > have "buy-it-now" (sold prior, in a normal auction format), withdrawn & > changed lots. At best, that is a stretch. A specified end time, is just what it means. eBay is exactly what a sealed bid auction is. A "normal" auction can theoretically go for days. An ebay auction ends at X:YY period. Those that bid early are just people that make a bid and announce what they bid. But those that place their sealed bids at the end are unknown until the end of the auction. Any auction, where there is any real interest, is ALMOST NEVER won by an early bid; making them essentially non-bids. >>This is like a >>sealed bid auction because the auction ends at a specified time and the >>winners will be those that place last second bids (i.e. not seen by >>others). > > Absolute bullshit. A sealed bid auction does not allow you to bid more > than > once, nor do you know if your bid has been exceeded. Nor is there any > advantage/disadvantage in bidding early or late, as no-one knows what the > bids are until the auction finishes. Sure they do. Maybe some don't but many sealed bid auctions allow you to get your bid back and make a change. Until the end of the auction, you can do as you like. The auction you propose is: 1) one with a fixed end time that is published 2) has an extension period for x amount of minutes. There exists NO such auction in the real world. Only in your imagination for a format that you think will give you a better chance of winning. But the bottom line is, you don't win, unless you have the high bid. That is what ebay does; that is what any real world auction does. What you want is one that you can change your mind, essentially, after the auction should have ended. You want an auction where they auctioneer says, "Sold!" and you stand up and say, "I was sleeping. Give me one more minute." From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 24 16:32:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424140340.02f8ddd0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Thursday, April 24, 2003, at 04:08 PM, Geoff Reed wrote: > > They are, the state of Illinois? has a new law that was pushed > through with the help of ebay requiring the operators of any Internet > auction site to register with that state "if any potential sellers or > buyers reside within the state" at a fee of $200. of course you also > have to find an auctioneer to "sponsor" you and you have to take state > approved courses to maintain the registration (auction calling, and > the like) :( the state is getting ready to start filing civil > lawsuits seeking damages of up to $10,000 and the shutting down of the > offending sites if you don't comply. You have to take a *calling* class to run an online auction? That does sound really fishy, especially considering eBay's participation. Why is nobody fighting it? Doc From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Apr 24 17:09:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: OT: eBay being sued over patent infringement (et al) In-Reply-To: References: <3EA815AA.3932630A@rain.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424180354.05670980@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > and how this would affect ALL similar sites, including Yahoo, DoveBid, etc. Even the United States government is using online auctions for a lot of GSA auctions now. If online auction sites have to pay to license the ability to operate, they will still operate, but as their costs increase, they will be passed on to the users ( could be buyers and sellers both ) in increased fees, buyer's premiums, membership fees, or some other revenue generating mechanism. At 11:53 AM 4/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >Going back to where this started: Sellam posted a link about eBay being sued >over patent infringement. > >What are the real merits of this case? I know Jerry Kaplan founded OnSale >in 1994. I haven't read the patent, but I know that eBay is not unique in >what it is doing, and it wasn't the first. Whether or not we LIKE eBay, it >may be worth considering how the service would change if they lost the suit, >and how this would affect ALL similar sites, including Yahoo, DoveBid, etc. > >For myself, I'm very concerned that the USPTO has issued many frivolous and >unwarranted patents for processes that existed previously and/or are too >obvious or trivial. eBay was also recently sued by a company that claims to >have a patent on the caching of data for presentation in a user interface, >for example. The patent describes a caching mechanism that is generally the >way most web browsers interoperate with a web server. The USPTO is, IMHO, >overwhelmed and missing critical resources and subject matter experts in the >evaluation of its applications. Grave mistakes have been made, and to me >the article to which Sellam refers is just another (quite alarming) reminder >of that fact. > >I offer patent #6,549,904 - a patent granted to Amazon.com just LAST WEEK >for "A method and system for generating notifications of auctions based on >user notification requests", which is in summary, you choose categories of >items and identifying keywords, and the system will email you when matching >auctions are found. This is now a patented process, and whoever felt this >was a process unique and worthy enough of a patent needs a performance >review, IMHO. > >I get at least one email a day from eBay and Yahoo Auctions, which is now >evidence of their infringement as of 4/15/2003. > >Patrick > > >Patent 6,549,904: >http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/net >ahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=6,549,904&OS=6,549,904 >&RS=6,549,904 > >Caching: >http://www.internalmemos.com/memos/memodetails.php?memo_id=1210 From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Apr 24 17:43:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping Message-ID: <200304242241.PAA12618@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Adrian Vickers" ---snip--- > >>This is like a >>sealed bid auction because the auction ends at a specified time and the >>winners will be those that place last second bids (i.e. not seen by >>others). > >Absolute bullshit. A sealed bid auction does not allow you to bid more than >once, nor do you know if your bid has been exceeded. Nor is there any >advantage/disadvantage in bidding early or late, as no-one knows what the >bids are until the auction finishes. Hi After all the items I've bid on, I'd bid the same amount on a sealed bid as I'd snipe with. I've learned to look at an item and determine what I'll bid. I've learned to not change that amount, regardless of how the auction goes. Why should one let emotion rule their bid? If the item goes above my amount, I only watch the auction for interest. I've learned to never reassess my bid. I've found that after losing many bids, I'd rather lose to a sniped bid than to someone that pennies me up in open bidding. I realized that that person either doesn't know what he wants to pay or he may even be a shill bidder. It is the wrong place for either. Dwight From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Apr 24 17:51:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <39290.130.76.32.21.1051214093.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQue st.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> <200304241659.JAA12425@clulw009.amd.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424182345.056abc20@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Mike, > What you are trying to do is have a completely new format for an auction. > Specified end time with extended provision. You don't have any such > "NORMAL" auction like this. Yahoo auctions, GSA auctions, and a local one ( that ceased operations ) called Bidzilla had the extending auctions format. > and the winners will be those that place last second bids (i.e. not seen by others) Not necessarily so. An early bidder that enters a high enough proxy bid will still win. Sniping sometimes backfires on the snipers, if they miscalculate what it will take to win ( if it was something they really wanted ) and enter too low a sniping bid. At 12:54 PM 4/24/03 -0700, you wrote: > > At 18:23 24/04/2003, you wrote: > > > > > >>All this garbage about > >>extending auctions an extra minute, blah blah blah, is just a dumb idea. > > > > I dispute that - the "extension" idea is what happens in a "normal" > > auction. The auctioneer will take bids until all competing bidders back > > out, leaving the one winner. This, naturally, maximises the sale price > > (which is good for the seller & the auction house). > >Absolute nonsense! In a normal auction, there is no specified "end time." > These are two completely different formats. In a normal auction, >everyone shows up at the same time and bids. Bidding is only for a few >minutes. > >In an eBay auction (a completely different format) everyone has a very >long time to decide. > >If you had an extended time feature (or pathetic idea) no one would bid on >a 10 day auction until day 10. There would be no need to, unless you just >couldn't be around. > >What you are trying to do is have a completely new format for an auction. >Specified end time with extended provision. You don't have any such >"NORMAL" auction like this. > >The only reason people place early bids on eBay is because they are >thinking like this is a "NORMAL" auction, which it is NOT. This is like a >sealed bid auction because the auction ends at a specified time and the >winners will be those that place last second bids (i.e. not seen by >others). From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Apr 24 17:53:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424140340.02f8ddd0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <69B79E82-7600-11D7-94A6-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030423212308.00a48c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424184908.05670220@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Geoff, > For small auction site operators like my wife So tell us how to find your wife's site, and perhaps some among us might check it out. At 02:08 PM 4/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:56 PM 4/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >>On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, at 08:40 PM, Mail List wrote: >> >>>That's right here in the next town over. If it's an open courtroom I could >>>go over there and check it out. >>> >>>I don't know about eBay and patent infringement, but I think eBay >>>has a monopoly on the online auction market for private individuals >>>which might warrant anti-trust action. I don't think a private individual >> >> The fact that an entity may be the only viable player on a given field >> doesn't "warrant anti-trust action." If eBay is actively doing anything >> to hinder their competition, other than doing what they do VERY well, >> and marketing it well, *that* might warrant action. > >They are, the state of Illinois? has a new law that was pushed through >with the help of ebay requiring the operators of any Internet auction site >to register with that state "if any potential sellers or buyers reside >within the state" at a fee of $200. of course you also have to find an >auctioneer to "sponsor" you and you have to take state approved courses to >maintain the registration (auction calling, and the like) :( the state is >getting ready to start filing civil lawsuits seeking damages of up to >$10,000 and the shutting down of the offending sites if you don't comply. > > For small auction site operators like my wife (she hasn't made any $ > from the thing yet and it's been running for > 6 months) that state's > requirements are onerous. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 24 17:58:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: Publishing old manuals and books on the web. Legal? In-Reply-To: References: <3EA833F1.3040403@charter.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030424154330.031e99a0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >I'm in the process of digitizing a lot of old manuals and books. Some pieces >I want to make downloadable on my website. >But I don't want to run into trouble with copyright etc. Does anybody have Make a nice pretty web page, but only put links to the files on the official web site. Keep the actual files on some other unrelated , unnamed site, and zip the files and give them meaningless file names. This way if somebody complains and the file site boots you off, just find another freeby file site and update the links. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 24 17:58:46 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <1051216522.2129.64.camel@nazgul.pao.digeo.com> References: <3EA833F1.3040403@charter.net> <200304241808.LAA12479@clulw009.amd.com> <3EA833F1.3040403@charter.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030424155045.031e8210@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >I have mixed feelings about sniping. I've lost a number of bids to >"snipers". The thing that bugs me about it is that for items I care >about, I don't have an opportunity to respond to the snipe. Most of the A) Sniping makes us feel bad about losing items we really would not have bid a lot more for anyway. B) Sniping makes us feel bad about losing items we really would have bid a bit more for (and maybe, maybe not have won). Solution Always bid what you REALLY would be willing to pay for an item and stop fussing about it. or Start sniping, especially on items you really want, but really prefer to get at a lower price. The simple fact is that seeing that somebody else is willing to bid X, often increases the value of an item to X+ something in our minds. With one of a kind items, that + something can get pretty wild too. Paying too much for something you really want can't be that great of a sin anyway. From jwstephens at cox.net Thu Apr 24 18:00:00 2003 From: jwstephens at cox.net (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> <200304241659.JAA12425@clulw009.amd.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424213803.01afa488@slave> Message-ID: <3EA86AF8.B650AF07@cox.net> Ebay's auctions are like what I have seen called "silent auctions" I once frequented coin shops that held these auctions, and at friday night at 7pm, they would close the shop for 10 minutes clean of the auction board, and then collect the proceeds. You could consign your stuff, or buy theirs. They had the coins in bags stapled to bid cards. you wrote your # and bid on the back. had to exceed the previous by a percentage. sound familiar? only thing was, sniping went on in person and with some heated arguments. but it just made for a really smelly loud 20 minutes before 7pm, and lots of frantic scribbleing as the auctions ran down. and you could cuss the guy who was bidding on your 1960D proof silver dime. anyway, point being there is no ethical reason to ban sniping. And the format is a monitored silent auction (no auctioneer) so there has to be a way to call the bidding, since the auctioneer is not there to force it to a close. Jim From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Thu Apr 24 18:10:00 2003 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:12 2005 Subject: eBay sniping References: <200304241659.JAA12425@clulw009.amd.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> Message-ID: <3EA86CD8.B3A7339@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Adrian Vickers wrote: > > I'd only bid ?25 at the start, fully expecting the price to hit > about ?50-?60 or so before the last-second rush. Obviously, though, > the professional snipers were away that day, since there were only > a few bids upping the price towards my ?25 limit. When it hit ?24, > though, I panicked & bid again (with 2 seconds to spare), thus > raising the price over my own bid by 1 pence... To save any confusion, I should point out that raising your (already winning) maximum bid doesn't normally raise the current price for an item. You only got caught out because the previous bidder's non-winning bid was less than one increment off your winning bid. Any new bids have to beat current bids by at least one increment. Hmm ... maybe that didn't unconfuse things! I'm not going to reveal your eBay name here, Adrian, but if you go to http://vt100.net/rebay and type in the appropriate auction number, you'll be able to see a blow-by-blow account of the auction, in time order. - Paul From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 24 18:36:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:13 2005 Subject: Stingray card for free to a tech who is smar(er?) In-Reply-To: <000301c30a19$000d7d10$6300a8c0@benchbox> from "Jeffrey S. Worley" at Apr 24, 3 00:21:38 am Message-ID: > I've always had memory problems with my Sparcstation 4/330 and the > stingray is no exception. Suspecting that cold solder joints might be > the root, I resoldered the SIMM connections on this card. Testing shows > this action rendered the card useless. Stingrays being fairly rare, I > offer mine to someone smarter than I am to make it useful again. Before you give up totally, recheck your work. In particular, check you've not made any solder bridges (short circuits, of course) between adjacent pins. It's easy to do that... -tony From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Apr 24 18:55:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:13 2005 Subject: ISA Expansion Box In-Reply-To: <20030424154150.37784.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030424154150.37784.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- pmulry wrote: > > > i've never actually seen one of these. If somone has clear pics can > > they make them available for download. if not to complicated might be > > able to make one using an isa riser card that came with an old 486. do > > they connect to serial port or piggyback an isa slot? > > They are a box with a passive ISA back plane and a pair of ISA cards > that are connected with a single round cable about as big around as your > thumb. The box itself is styled like an XT (down to the sloping front). Of course, those are 8 bit only. There are 16 bit solutions available, but they are usually marketed for industrial computer uses, and tend to be a little pricey. -Toth From sleepyjackal at earthlink.net Thu Apr 24 19:13:00 2003 From: sleepyjackal at earthlink.net (Gary and the Samoyeds) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:13 2005 Subject: eBay sniping References: <200304241808.LAA12479@clulw009.amd.com> <3EA833F1.3040403@charter.net> <1051216522.2129.64.camel@nazgul.pao.digeo.com> Message-ID: <3EA87710.8A8CA055@earthlink.net> I just set the maximum amount to what I'm willing to pay and then let it sit there. If I get beaten, so be it. I've had My bid jump by $20 in the last minute of the auction, but I still won and wanted to send a "ha ha" to whoever tried to steal it. Of course, I only buy a little bit, nothing really expensive, and nothing really rare. I suppose if I were bidding on a Kenbak or Apple I, it might be more annoying. -- Sic semper tyrannus Send eMail to ----> grenaud@acm.org. For contact info, see: http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/contact.htm From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Thu Apr 24 19:51:00 2003 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:13 2005 Subject: Publishing old manuals and books on the web. Legal? References: <20030424170002.80373.5724.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <010601c30ac4$7d134af0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> It is easy to ask for a copyright release from the owner (if they are still in business.) I got permission from Motorola to uses some data sheets on my web site. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/MP_A2/MC6875/MC6875.htm I sent an email to the press contact in the semiconductor division. (See my request below.) I asked them to foward my request to the correct department. I was emailed a short form to fill out and then they gave me permission. I did the same for Byte magazine but received no response. I am going to put some Radio Electronics articles up without permission because Gernsback Publications went out of business last year. If I find out who owns the copyright I will ask for a release. Try to locate the owner and keep a record of your effort. Have contact information on your web site so any copyright owner can reach you. Heathkit is still around. www.heathkit.com Ask them for permission. I think Popular Electronics was acquired by Gernsback Publications. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley --------------------------------------------------- My original request to Motorola I have a non-profit web site that documents personal computers from the 1970s that were based on the Motorola 6800 family of microprocessors. ( www.swtpc.com/mholley ) I would like permission to post copies of out-of-print Motorola data sheets. These are useful for collectors and hobbyist who are restoring these 6800 based computers and games. An example is the datasheet for the MC6875 clock generator. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/MP_A2/MC6875/MC6875.htm Could you direct this email to the correct person that handles this type of release? ---------------------------------------------------- From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Apr 24 19:51:41 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:13 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424184908.05670220@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424140340.02f8ddd0@mail.zipcon.net> <69B79E82-7600-11D7-94A6-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030423212308.00a48c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424175425.02a49aa0@mail.zipcon.net> http://www.lordandlady.net it's sci-fi, Fantasy ,Ren/Mediaeval and goth stuff At 06:51 PM 4/24/03 -0400, you wrote: >Geoff, > > > For small auction site operators like my wife > >So tell us how to find your wife's site, and perhaps some among us >might check it out. > > > > >At 02:08 PM 4/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >>At 09:56 PM 4/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >>>On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, at 08:40 PM, Mail List wrote: >>> >>>>That's right here in the next town over. If it's an open courtroom I could >>>>go over there and check it out. >>>> >>>>I don't know about eBay and patent infringement, but I think eBay >>>>has a monopoly on the online auction market for private individuals >>>>which might warrant anti-trust action. I don't think a private individual >>> >>> The fact that an entity may be the only viable player on a given >>> field doesn't "warrant anti-trust action." If eBay is actively doing >>> anything to hinder their competition, other than doing what they do >>> VERY well, and marketing it well, *that* might warrant action. >> >>They are, the state of Illinois? has a new law that was pushed through >>with the help of ebay requiring the operators of any Internet auction >>site to register with that state "if any potential sellers or buyers >>reside within the state" at a fee of $200. of course you also have to >>find an auctioneer to "sponsor" you and you have to take state approved >>courses to maintain the registration (auction calling, and the like) >>:( the state is getting ready to start filing civil lawsuits seeking >>damages of up to $10,000 and the shutting down of the offending sites if >>you don't comply. >> >> For small auction site operators like my wife (she hasn't made any $ >> from the thing yet and it's been running for > 6 months) that state's >> requirements are onerous. From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Apr 24 19:59:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:13 2005 Subject: ISA Expansion Box In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks's message of "Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:41:50 -0700 (PDT)" References: <20030424154150.37784.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200304250049.h3P0n37w065674@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > They are a box with a passive ISA back plane and a pair of ISA cards > that are connected with a single round cable about as big around as > your thumb. The box itself is styled like an XT (down to the sloping > front). The original poster was describing an intended use for these to enable use of a speech-synthesis card on what I'm guessing is a more modern PC with a sound card, as a backup for when the sound card or its drivers fail. I guess what I'm wondering is, how is this supposed to work with shiny new PCs that have no ISA slots, and is that what the poster is really after? Probably completely off topic though. As long as I'm off the rails, some other ramblings: A blind former ex-cow-orker used to use Artic speech synthesizers to work her computers. I remember her having both an ISA card and an external box about the size of a paperback book (maybe a bit thinner and longer) which attached to the PC via a serial port, and later another smaller Artic external box (about half the size of the older one). These were something of a nuisance due to copy protection -- it wasn't enough to require the speech synthesizer hardware, the Artic software was keyed to the specific speech synthesizer. Later (I'm thinking 1997 or 1998) she switched to using a software package called JAWS from Henter-Joyce. This could either use the Artic synthesizer or the Windows audio drivers (she was running NT 4.0 on her notebook PC). She liked the voice of the Artic box (because she'd been using it for years and had got used to it), but rapidly got used to the software speech-synthesizer code because it meant one or two less things to have to carry around. JAWS was also copy protected, with a key diskette that allowed some small number of installations to hard disks -- you could also de-install and increment the counter on the key disk in order to move the installation, but of course if the hard disk got whacked then you might not have the opportunity to do this. -Frank McConnell From norm-classiccmp at docnorm.com Thu Apr 24 20:41:00 2003 From: norm-classiccmp at docnorm.com (norm-classiccmp@docnorm.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:13 2005 Subject: Some serious punched-card equipment on Ebay Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2724747600&category=1247 Someone in Minneapolis/St. Paul has quite a lot of IBM punched card equipment up for sale. They mention 029, 077, 129, 514, and 526 -- it looks like a large number of punches with perhaps one each of the 077, 514, and 526. The auction ends in 8 days and is for "the right to contact me on the above machines" -- so it looks like, if you want some or all of the equipment, you'll have a chance to make a deal rather than take it en bloc. Norm From marvin at rain.org Thu Apr 24 21:20:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:13 2005 Subject: Ebay SNAFU References: Message-ID: <3EA89AFA.67AC2FA2@rain.org> With all this talk about the ebay DNF board, just thought some of you would like to know what is going on there. Basically, a number of people (10 or so that I know of), myself included, were suspended today from posting on any of the boards. Seems that a *MAJOR* SNAFU on their part last night left open a database that documented the complaints that were being generated by (I think) the Report Button; that URL got posted on the DNF Board. That database included *who* generated the complaint, and several DNFers started browsing the database to find out who the snitches are. Several of us scrolled the board so that URL was no longer available for public viewing ... and ended up getting suspended for it. From paulm064 at icqmail.com Thu Apr 24 21:21:01 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: How to build a working digital computer book References: Message-ID: <009701c30ad3$00ccb9e0$5055ddcb@earth2> Is there a downloadable copy available of this book . Sounds interesting! I'm sure i won't be the only person interested. ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Design Fort DTP" To: Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 12:31 AM Subject: How to build a working digital computer book > I recently acquired the awesome book "How to build a working digital > computer" by Alcosser, Phillips and Wolk. Within the next year (as time > allows) I want to (re)construct this computer. > > I know this book was discussed on here before. Maybe there are other people > out there now who are in the process of building it or built it before. I > would like to get in touch with anybody who has experience building it. > > The only website I found on so far that shows a built "Paperclip computer" > is this one: > http://www.apparent-wind.com/mbr/emmerack.html > > If anybody knows any other pictures of a built "Paperclip computer" on the > net, please let me know. > > Greetings > Herbert > Computer Museum of Nova Scotia From paulm064 at icqmail.com Thu Apr 24 21:33:01 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: ISA Expansion Box References: <20030424154150.37784.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <200304250049.h3P0n37w065674@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <00af01c30ad4$c3600420$5055ddcb@earth2> ok, i took a tangent (my mind works that way) :-( all roads lead to rome :-/ all hamburgers are not macdonalds :-| all opsys's are not microsoft :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank McConnell" To: Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 10:49 AM Subject: Re: ISA Expansion Box > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > They are a box with a passive ISA back plane and a pair of ISA cards > > that are connected with a single round cable about as big around as > > your thumb. The box itself is styled like an XT (down to the sloping > > front). > > The original poster was describing an intended use for these to enable > use of a speech-synthesis card on what I'm guessing is a more modern > PC with a sound card, as a backup for when the sound card or its > drivers fail. I guess what I'm wondering is, how is this supposed to > work with shiny new PCs that have no ISA slots, and is that what the > poster is really after? Probably completely off topic though. > > As long as I'm off the rails, some other ramblings: > > A blind former ex-cow-orker used to use Artic speech synthesizers to > work her computers. I remember her having both an ISA card and an > external box about the size of a paperback book (maybe a bit thinner > and longer) which attached to the PC via a serial port, and later > another smaller Artic external box (about half the size of the older > one). These were something of a nuisance due to copy protection -- it > wasn't enough to require the speech synthesizer hardware, the Artic > software was keyed to the specific speech synthesizer. > > Later (I'm thinking 1997 or 1998) she switched to using a software > package called JAWS from Henter-Joyce. This could either use the > Artic synthesizer or the Windows audio drivers (she was running NT 4.0 > on her notebook PC). She liked the voice of the Artic box (because > she'd been using it for years and had got used to it), but rapidly got > used to the software speech-synthesizer code because it meant one or > two less things to have to carry around. > > JAWS was also copy protected, with a key diskette that allowed some > small number of installations to hard disks -- you could also > de-install and increment the counter on the key disk in order to move > the installation, but of course if the hard disk got whacked then you > might not have the opportunity to do this. > > -Frank McConnell From MTPro at aol.com Thu Apr 24 21:43:00 2003 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement Message-ID: <1ea.751554c.2bd9fa54@aol.com> Doc Shipley wrote: << I sell goods all the time on the austin.forsale newsgroup. As far as I'm concerned, eBay is an *asset* to that, not a detraction. eBay is the de facto Blue Book for used/surplus goods, allowing me to decide if my property is salable, whether it's worth more in cash than as a possession, and how to price it. It also shortstops lowballing by prospective customers. Naturally, it isn't the only resource I use, but it a very convenient and extremely well-organized asset for any seller, and for any buyer of either local or online goods. >> I think for most items, including collectible classic computers, this is absolutely true. I've said for many years, you can find ANYTHING on eBay if you look regularly, and for most things, most of the time, it's a deal. Things that have collectability you have to be more careful about in order to get the best price. That's really true of anything though, shop around a little, research before you buy. I think Michael Nadeau's book, "Collectible Microcomputers" is terrific and I highly recommend it to anyone here, but for pricing, I think the values are definitely on the low end of the spectrum. For instance a Heath H11 from 1977 is said to be valued at between $65 - $175. Do you know how fast I'd jump on the opportunity to buy one for under $200?! Even if just the cpu. Off the top of my head, an H11 in great shape with a couple manuals a few cards in it, operational, I'd say would easily get $600+ on eBay. Anything above that would approach excessive in my mind, but on average, eBay prices represent "real" market values to me. eBay has done a pretty good job over the years to improve the process and to be fair about charges, etc. I think it's just about one of THE best web creations of all time, seriously. Doc, you said it right, it's a fine tool and asset. Best, David David Greelish Classic Computing www.classiccomputing.com "classiccomputing" on eBay From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 24 22:02:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: How to build a working digital computer book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, The Design Fort DTP wrote: > I recently acquired the awesome book "How to build a working digital > computer" by Alcosser, Phillips and Wolk. Within the next year (as time > allows) I want to (re)construct this computer. I believe I have a copy as well. > I know this book was discussed on here before. Maybe there are other people > out there now who are in the process of building it or built it before. I > would like to get in touch with anybody who has experience building it. > > The only website I found on so far that shows a built "Paperclip computer" > is this one: > http://www.apparent-wind.com/mbr/emmerack.html Simply incredible! What a terrific site. I wish there was more information though. > If anybody knows any other pictures of a built "Paperclip computer" on the > net, please let me know. Go here: http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml ...and scroll down to see a commercial version of the Paperclip Computer. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Apr 24 22:04:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Some serious punched-card equipment on Ebay References: Message-ID: <001901c30ad7$1f714830$6900a8c0@HPLAPTOP> oh MAN! I'm drooling over the 029 keypunches! My first computer class in college freshman year, we were the last class to use the 29 card punches. After our semester, they were retired and everything went to VM/CMS on 3270 terminals. I'd love to find one of those 029 punches someday in working order! Of course, I'd also love to find the 4341 they were attached to :) I think I'd make room in the basement for that ;) Jay West From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Apr 24 22:09:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424175425.02a49aa0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424184908.05670220@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030424140340.02f8ddd0@mail.zipcon.net> <69B79E82-7600-11D7-94A6-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030423212308.00a48c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424230651.056ab620@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Geoff, It's very professional looking. My compliments. At 05:55 PM 4/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >http://www.lordandlady.net > >it's sci-fi, Fantasy ,Ren/Mediaeval and goth stuff > >At 06:51 PM 4/24/03 -0400, you wrote: >>Geoff, >> >> > For small auction site operators like my wife >> >>So tell us how to find your wife's site, and perhaps some among us >>might check it out. >> >> >> >> >>At 02:08 PM 4/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >>>At 09:56 PM 4/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >>>>On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, at 08:40 PM, Mail List wrote: >>>> >>>>>That's right here in the next town over. If it's an open courtroom I could >>>>>go over there and check it out. >>>>> >>>>>I don't know about eBay and patent infringement, but I think eBay >>>>>has a monopoly on the online auction market for private individuals >>>>>which might warrant anti-trust action. I don't think a private individual >>>> >>>> The fact that an entity may be the only viable player on a given >>>> field doesn't "warrant anti-trust action." If eBay is actively doing >>>> anything to hinder their competition, other than doing what they do >>>> VERY well, and marketing it well, *that* might warrant action. >>> >>>They are, the state of Illinois? has a new law that was pushed through >>>with the help of ebay requiring the operators of any Internet auction >>>site to register with that state "if any potential sellers or buyers >>>reside within the state" at a fee of $200. of course you also have to >>>find an auctioneer to "sponsor" you and you have to take state approved >>>courses to maintain the registration (auction calling, and the like) >>>:( the state is getting ready to start filing civil lawsuits seeking >>>damages of up to $10,000 and the shutting down of the offending sites if >>>you don't comply. >>> >>> For small auction site operators like my wife (she hasn't made any $ >>> from the thing yet and it's been running for > 6 months) that state's >>> requirements are onerous. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 24 22:15:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <33299.130.76.32.21.1051197163.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Mike wrote: > NO ONE should ever bid more than they are willing to pay. But with > sniping, people often bid a little higher just to protect their bid. If > there is an extention bids will still not rise higher than anyone is > willing to bid. But it will prevent sniping, which is the root cause of a lot of gripes one hears about eBay (both from buyers and sellers). > I have seen auctions go for $400 on items that normally wouldn't sell for > $300. One bidder contacted me because two people bid that $400 and he > said, "I guess I got stuck. I was just trying to protect my bid." He > paid the auction but clearly bid more than he ever expected or wanted to > pay. Which is a clear example of how eBay pricing gets artificially inflated. I'm not saying it happens all the time, but it probably happens enough (and this is clearly obvious from some of the prices that some auctions end at) that the end result is artificial price inflation. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 24 22:17:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, chris wrote: > >It uses ADB mouse and keyboard so if you have that your set. Monitor is > >probably the only problem. An old mac monitor would probably work. > > No, it probably won't work with a mac montior. The Mac uses a different > style RGB. I can factually attest to this since I tried a Mac RGB monitor on a //gs the other day and it didn't work (wrong frequency it seems). > But, the IIgs does have composite video as well as RGB, so you can always > use the composite video in absence of the right RGB monitor. True. But it makes a difference when you have an RGB display. > Mac ADB keyboards and mice are fully compatible with the IIgs. Yep. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 24 22:19:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <1108.130.76.32.21.1051200505.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Mike wrote: > NO SYSTEM that make it easy to get a steal, will ever be adopted. The > only systems that will ever win out are the ones that offer sellers high > returns. The seller will simply choose the medium that will offer the > greater return. That's not true. That assumes that the seller is only interested in the money aspect. There is also value in a great many other things, such as customer loyalty, customer service, treating the customer right, etc. > You say the bidders will just go where there are lower prices. But the > problem is there won't be anything to buy. Collectible type items have a > fixed number available and there will always be someone who is willing to > pay a higher price. So, the sellers have all the cards in this game. Bidders might want to go where the prices are fair. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Apr 24 22:22:01 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC09@lif015.vtmerlin.com> > It's very professional looking. My compliments. >>http://www.lordandlady.net >>it's sci-fi, Fantasy ,Ren/Mediaeval and goth stuff Shame about the 'Protected area' (Anyone who wants to know how to bypass anoyances like this mail me off list) Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Apr 24 22:31:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006801c30ada$da566830$0181a8c0@k4jcw> Sellam said: > Which is a clear example of how eBay pricing gets > artificially inflated. > I'm not saying it happens all the time, but it probably happens enough > (and this is clearly obvious from some of the prices that > some auctions > end at) that the end result is artificial price inflation. Nonsense. This is how *all* auctions work. It has nothing to do with sniping, it has to do with emotional bidding. If you starting letting the "I gotta have it" emotions run over the "I'll pay only this much" logic, you're not bidding wisely. --John From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Apr 24 22:33:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: ISA Expansion Box In-Reply-To: <200304250049.h3P0n37w065674@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <20030424154150.37784.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <200304250049.h3P0n37w065674@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Frank McConnell wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > They are a box with a passive ISA back plane and a pair of ISA cards > > that are connected with a single round cable about as big around as > > your thumb. The box itself is styled like an XT (down to the sloping > > front). > > The original poster was describing an intended use for these to enable > use of a speech-synthesis card on what I'm guessing is a more modern PC > with a sound card, as a backup for when the sound card or its drivers > fail. I guess what I'm wondering is, how is this supposed to work with > shiny new PCs that have no ISA slots, and is that what the poster is > really after? Probably completely off topic though. I think there are PCI to ISA solutions available for the industrial computer market. The real drawback is price, as they tend to be pricey, just like the 16 bit ISA ones I mentioned. -Toth From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Apr 24 22:56:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Ebay SNAFU In-Reply-To: <3EA89AFA.67AC2FA2@rain.org> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424235040.05e35ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Marvin, What's the url to the archive? > Several of us scrolled the board so that URL was no longer > available for public viewing ... and ended up getting suspended for it. Seems like you were doing eBay a favor by doing that. > and ended up getting suspended for it. Sure wasn't the first time eBay suspended someone on the DNF board. It's only temporary, I hope? At 07:18 PM 4/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >With all this talk about the ebay DNF board, just thought some of you >would like to know what is going on there. Basically, a number of people >(10 or so that I know of), myself included, were suspended today from >posting on any of the boards. Seems that a *MAJOR* SNAFU on their part >last night left open a database that documented the complaints that were >being generated by (I think) the Report Button; that URL got posted on >the DNF Board. That database included *who* generated the complaint, and >several DNFers started browsing the database to find out who the >snitches are. Several of us scrolled the board so that URL was no longer >available for public viewing ... and ended up getting suspended for it. > > From my standpoing, this further verifies comments I've made about the >inept ebay management! Some people from the media have been contacted, >so you may be hearing more about this :). From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 24 23:11:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Apr 24, 2003 08:13:01 PM Message-ID: <200304250326.h3P3QTpG023778@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Mac ADB keyboards and mice are fully compatible with the IIgs. > > Yep. I prefer to say that IIgs ADB keyboards are fully compatible with Mac's :^) What can I say, for a Mac that you don't use much, those tiny keyboards are *NICE*. I've got one sitting on my Audio Workstation (PowerMac 8500/180). Zane From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Apr 24 23:34:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Ebay SNAFU References: <3EA89AFA.67AC2FA2@rain.org> Message-ID: <018901c30ae3$86466480$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 9:18 PM Subject: Ebay SNAFU > With all this talk about the ebay DNF board, just thought some of you > would like to know what is going on there. Basically, a number of people > (10 or so that I know of), myself included, were suspended today from > posting on any of the boards. Seems that a *MAJOR* SNAFU on their part > last night left open a database that documented the complaints that were > being generated by (I think) the Report Button; that URL got posted on > the DNF Board. That database included *who* generated the complaint, and > several DNFers started browsing the database to find out who the > snitches are. Several of us scrolled the board so that URL was no longer > available for public viewing ... and ended up getting suspended for it. > > >From my standpoing, this further verifies comments I've made about the > inept ebay management! Some people from the media have been contacted, > so you may be hearing more about this :). I realize this shows my total ignorance - but what is the "DNF" board on eBay? Curiosity overwhelms me... Stuart Johnson From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Apr 24 23:35:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Some serious punched-card equipment on Ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0087DDE0-76D7-11D7-8B36-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Thursday, April 24, 2003, at 06:39 PM, norm-classiccmp@docnorm.com wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ > eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2724747600&category=1247 Anyone notice that the description says "you are bidding on the right to contact me" not "you are bidding on several machines"?? What did they mean by that? From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Apr 24 23:50:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424230651.056ab620@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424175425.02a49aa0@mail.zipcon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030424184908.05670220@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030424140340.02f8ddd0@mail.zipcon.net> <69B79E82-7600-11D7-94A6-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030423212308.00a48c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424215232.053c8790@mail.zipcon.net> I will let her know you said so At 11:07 PM 4/24/03 -0400, you wrote: >Geoff, > >It's very professional looking. My compliments. From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Apr 24 23:51:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC09@lif015.vtmerlin.c om> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424215400.053cb2e0@mail.zipcon.net> Protected area? At 04:20 AM 4/25/03 +0100, you wrote: > > It's very professional looking. My compliments. > > >>http://www.lordandlady.net > >>it's sci-fi, Fantasy ,Ren/Mediaeval and goth stuff > >Shame about the 'Protected area' > >(Anyone who wants to know how to bypass anoyances like >this mail me off list) > >Lee. > >________________________________________________________________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >http://www.star.net.uk >________________________________________________________________________ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 24 23:55:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: How to build a working digital computer book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030425045328.81936.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Go here: > > http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml > > ...and scroll down to see a commercial version of the Paperclip Computer. I have an original brochure for one of those. Any idea how much the actual computer would go for these days? Has anyone here _seen_ a real one? -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Apr 25 00:21:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424215400.053cb2e0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC09@lif015.vtmerlin.c om> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030425011530.05662b00@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Geoff, > Protected area? You've got something in your code that disables right mouse button clicks that was impeding Lee's desire to 'open link in new window' to 'browse in multiple windows' At 09:55 PM 4/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >Protected area? > >At 04:20 AM 4/25/03 +0100, you wrote: >> > It's very professional looking. My compliments. >> >> >>http://www.lordandlady.net >> >>it's sci-fi, Fantasy ,Ren/Mediaeval and goth stuff >> >>Shame about the 'Protected area' >> >>(Anyone who wants to know how to bypass anoyances like >>this mail me off list) >> >>Lee. >> >>________________________________________________________________________ >>This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The >>service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >>anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >>http://www.star.net.uk >>________________________________________________________________________ From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Apr 25 00:31:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Some serious punched-card equipment on Ebay In-Reply-To: <0087DDE0-76D7-11D7-8B36-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030425012044.0589fb40@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > "you are bidding on the right to contact me" > What did they mean by that? Looks to me you won't be receiving any tangible goods for your bid. The description says "Please email with any ?'s and for pricing." so it looks like the seller has a price for the items that is going to be independent of what the bidding ends up at. At 09:33 PM 4/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >On Thursday, April 24, 2003, at 06:39 PM, norm-classiccmp@docnorm.com >wrote: > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2724747600&category=1247 > >Anyone notice that the description says "you are bidding on the right >to contact me" not >"you are bidding on several machines"?? > >What did they mean by that? From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 02:10:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030424203326.01af2e78@slave> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > The relative values of things to people - especially collector items - is > so variable as to be almost meaningless. I'd have happily paid ?100 for a > Sharp MZ-80K two years ago. Now I'll baulk at anything over about ?25, and > I'd prefer it free. Why? Because I have two of them now. Their relative > value to me as a purchaser has changed significantly for reasons which are > totally unrelated to their "real" value. Same goes for the MZ-80A & B, of > which I have 2 & 1 examples respectively. I'd still pay ?50 or so for a VGC > "B", as the one I have has a slightly dubious keyboard & a nasty scratch in > the screen which I don't think is repairable. This is a really good point. There has to be an objective value based on true scarcity (i.e. how many total units produced), not regional scarcity, and generally acknowledged historical and/or technical significance. eBay prices do not generally reflect objective value. I think Michael Nadeau's book made great strides towards this end, but refinement is still needed. To be sure, prices for old computers will still not settle in the near future. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 02:12:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Two new Apple toys In-Reply-To: <200304241956.MAA03548@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > There is a IIgs-specific monitor available (pity they use the same plug, it > confuses a lot of people) -- I think it's called the AppleColour RGB. It took > me a little while to track one down, but it's well worth it (especially in > GS/OS). Yap, I just brought one home today and it looks quite nice. Now, if I could just figure out how to get this SCSI card working with the CD-ROM. It's a Rev-A and I read on the web that Rev-B fixed some problems with using the card on a GS. Has anyone got any info on this? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 02:15:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Publishing old manuals and books on the web. Legal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, The Design Fort DTP wrote: > I'm in the process of digitizing a lot of old manuals and books. Some pieces > I want to make downloadable on my website. > But I don't want to run into trouble with copyright etc. Does anybody have > experience with publishing old stuff on the internet? > I'm thinking about stuff like Heathkit manuals, or the "How to build a > digital computer" book. Or articles of old Popular Electronics magazines > that are relevant to vintage computers. I would just put them up. If/when you get a cease & desist letter, take the offending material off and that's that. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 02:21:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <004d01c30a9f$97f50180$3c281941@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, TeoZ wrote: > These days I pay mostly by paypal. I have never got burned on a transaction > so far from EBAY, newsgroups, or from people I talk to on swaplists or > websites. I must be lucky. I only had one bad experience buying something through a newsgroup. I advertised a want ad for an Apple ][. Some guy came forward and said he had one. He said it worked. Ok cool. We negotiated a price of $75. When I got it, the CPU and socket looked like it had been ripped from the motherboard. There was no way this thing "worked". So I brought it up with him and he insisted that he didn't know how it happened. And it obviously couldn't have happened in transit. I told the guy to give me my money back and to pay for the shipping of the unit back to him. He balked. So I went on the newsgroups and posted a few messages about the transaction. That changed his tune quick. He complained that I was ruining his reputation. I told him I wasn't saying anything that wasn't true (which was correct). I made the offer that if he sent me back $50 I would post a retraction. He did, and I did (I posted that we had settled the dispute satisfactorily). The moral of the story: people will always be stupid. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 02:23:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: OT: eBay being sued over patent infringement (et al) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > I'm very happy with the service eBay offers to sellers and buyers; it's > a great business idea and they've executed it very well, IMHO, but I've > little sympathy for their situation. What goes around comes around. That's mainly the problem with the patent system today. It's used primarily as a tool to thwart competition, rather than foster innovation. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 02:33:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <46297.130.76.32.21.1051219142.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Mike wrote: > At best, that is a stretch. A specified end time, is just what it means. > eBay is exactly what a sealed bid auction is. A "normal" auction can > theoretically go for days. An ebay auction ends at X:YY period. No it's not. The bids you make on eBay, unless the seller turns on the feature to hide the bids, are open for all to see. How is that not totally and completely obvious to you? > Those that bid early are just people that make a bid and announce what > they bid. But those that place their sealed bids at the end are unknown > until the end of the auction. Any auction, where there is any real > interest, is ALMOST NEVER won by an early bid; making them essentially > non-bids. Just because people can choose to wait until the last second to enter a bid does not make it "sealed-bid". Your definitions are whack, yo. > The auction you propose is: > 1) one with a fixed end time that is published > 2) has an extension period for x amount of minutes. > > There exists NO such auction in the real world. Only in your imagination > for a format that you think will give you a better chance of winning. But > the bottom line is, you don't win, unless you have the high bid. That is > what ebay does; that is what any real world auction does. Forget your argument. It's going nowhere and does not really serve to clarify the issue. The analogy is that, if all the bidding is going to take place in the last 10 seconds by snipers, the days leading up to the end of the auction are really like a "preview" period. By extending the auction you give each bidder a chance to up their bid in response to another bid. It would be analagous to the way a "typical" auction in the real world works. > What you want is one that you can change your mind, essentially, after the > auction should have ended. > > You want an auction where they auctioneer says, "Sold!" and you stand up > and say, "I was sleeping. Give me one more minute." No, you want an auction where you have a chance to enter a bid higher than the last one. A better analogy with sniping is that the auctioneer screams "ONCETWICESOLD!" before you even have a chance to open your mouth. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 02:46:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <006801c30ada$da566830$0181a8c0@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > Sellam said: > > > Which is a clear example of how eBay pricing gets > > artificially inflated. > > I'm not saying it happens all the time, but it probably happens enough > > (and this is clearly obvious from some of the prices that > > some auctions > > end at) that the end result is artificial price inflation. > > Nonsense. This is how *all* auctions work. It has nothing to do with > sniping, it has to do with emotional bidding. If you starting letting the > "I gotta have it" emotions run over the "I'll pay only this much" logic, > you're not bidding wisely. Nonsense. What I was replying to was the practice of setting a price higher than you would want to pay because you were trying to "protect your bid". You then get sniped in the end and the price gets pushed up to past your intended maximum. It's a specific case. And like I said, it suerly doesn't happen all the time, but it certainly can contribute to some auctions ending with a ridiculous price. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 02:49:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: How to build a working digital computer book In-Reply-To: <20030425045328.81936.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Go here: > > > > http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml > > > > ...and scroll down to see a commercial version of the Paperclip Computer. > > I have an original brochure for one of those. Any idea how much > the actual computer would go for these days? On eBay or otherwise? ;) > Has anyone here _seen_ a real one? No, but the one pictured is from the manual of an actual unit that Doug Salot bought from a company that went out of business a few years ago and was still selling them up to that point as educational tools for teaching computer principles. I assume Doug still has it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 02:50:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Some serious punched-card equipment on Ebay In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030425012044.0589fb40@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Mail List wrote: > The description says "Please email with any ?'s and for pricing." so > it looks like the seller has a price for the items that is going to be > independent of what the bidding ends up at. I think the words that are relevant here are "free advertising" ;) (Well, cheap advertising at least.) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 25 02:58:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <57E3E67A-76F3-11D7-803A-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Friday, April 25, 2003, at 02:05 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > This is a really good point. There has to be an objective value based > on > true scarcity (i.e. how many total units produced), not regional > scarcity, and generally acknowledged historical and/or technical > significance. eBay prices do not generally reflect objective value. There will never be any true or even consistent determination of a thing's "objective value". It's a null phrase, an impossibility. "Value", by its very definition, is purely subjective. Any attempt to assign an immutable quantity will fail. Even the criteria you've used as constants are variable, and subject to personal interpretation. "True" scarcity? You intend to verify each unit produced, and verify the destruction of each unit not known to still exist? It's not possible. Regional and *perceived* scarcity are much more relevant factors to real current value than some assigned global scarcity. A good example is the plight of the DEC collectors in Australia and New Zealand, who would commit unnnatural acts for a working VAX. Meanwhile, I have a stack of them in storage, besides the several I use at home. I would drive across town to rescue another VS3100, but I doubt that I'd pay cash for one. Understand that I'm not nit-picking. I'm trying to demonstrate that the "artificial" influences on eBay, realtime auctions, the feeding frenzies I've seen at swap meets -- they are _valid_ factors in the value of any product, and doubly so with collectibles. My PDP-11/53's "true" "objective" value would have to be nil. There's nothing it can do that can't be done more efficiently by a later PDP-11, and nothing *I* do with it that I couldn't do in SIMH, much faster and at a much lower real expense. Its value is *entirely* emotional, and entirely subjective. That's the whole point, isn't it? Doc From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Apr 25 02:58:27 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Publishing old manuals and books on the web. Legal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001801c30b00$2e7dae80$8543cd18@D73KSM11> > On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, The Design Fort DTP wrote: > > > I'm in the process of digitizing a lot of old manuals and > books. Some > > pieces I want to make downloadable on my website. But I > don't want to > > run into trouble with copyright etc. Does anybody have > experience with > > publishing old stuff on the internet? I'm thinking about stuff like > > Heathkit manuals, or the "How to build a digital computer" book. Or > > articles of old Popular Electronics magazines that are relevant to > > vintage computers. > > I would just put them up. If/when you get a cease & desist > letter, take the offending material off and that's that. > There's also that small matter of $150,000 statutory damages for willful infringement per copyrighted work ($30,000 per work for non-willful) under the copyright statute. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Apr 25 03:15:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: OT: eBay being sued over patent infringement (et al) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001901c30b02$94763200$8543cd18@D73KSM11> > On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > > > I'm very happy with the service eBay offers to sellers and buyers; > > it's a great business idea and they've executed it very well, IMHO, > > but I've little sympathy for their situation. What goes > around comes > > around. > > That's mainly the problem with the patent system today. It's > used primarily as a tool to thwart competition, rather than > foster innovation. > In my experience, its primary use is as a shakedown device to extract royalty payments. The idea is not to actually thwart competition, but to threaten it enough that accused infringers, fearing an injunction, capitulate and pay a royalty. From hansp at aconit.org Fri Apr 25 04:37:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Valuing classic computers, was re: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EA90183.9020000@aconit.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > There has to be an objective value based on > true scarcity (i.e. how many total units produced), not regional > scarcity, and generally acknowledged historical and/or technical > significance. eBay prices do not generally reflect objective value. Why does there have to be an objective value? There are far too many variables to provide any sort of meaningful value, you cite some such as regional scarcity etc but there are also others such as the physical state of the item in question, its configuration, what comes with it in terms of documentation etc, the availability of such documentation if not included with the item, transport costs, number of people interested. All these factors play a role and that is why I think eBay prices DO reflect market value. eBay provides an almost perfect global marketplace and in such an environment prices will fluctuate around a "market value". If you as a buyer feel the prices are too high then that simply means there are people around who consider the value of those items to be higher than you do. I might as well gripe about the exhorbitant prices charged for BMW cars, I might be willing to pay say $10,000 for one yet the "market" price can be as high as $100,000, does my griping change anything? > I think Michael Nadeau's book made great strides towards this end, but > refinement is still needed. Not having had the opportunity to see a copy I cannot comment, but without denigrating his good work, I would question the real world relevance of any value placed on any particular machine at a particular moment in time. > To be sure, prices for old computers will still not settle in the near > future. And probably never will, it is a fluid, ever developing market as items come up for sale and collectors join and leave the community. -- hbp From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Apr 25 08:31:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: Some serious punched-card equipment on Ebay In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030425012044.0589fb40@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030425082856.06323518@mail.ubanproductions.com> I wonder if that equipment isn't related to the museum woes that Al Kossow mentioned earlier. --tom At 12:45 AM 4/25/2003 -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Mail List wrote: > > > The description says "Please email with any ?'s and for pricing." so > > it looks like the seller has a price for the items that is going to be > > independent of what the bidding ends up at. > >I think the words that are relevant here are "free advertising" ;) > >(Well, cheap advertising at least.) > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Fri Apr 25 09:28:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: [Slightly OT] Message-ID: Ugh. Sorry to ask this here, but I know many of you will know the answer. I'm looking for a 15 pin High Density, PC Mount, D-Sub, Right Angle, Female socket. In other words, I have a VGA socket that I need to replace on a board. I'm have a surprisingly difficult time tracking one down. I can find 9 and 25 pin all I want, I can even find 15 pin, but not in the high density format (just the regular 2 rows like used in ethernet AUI or Mac RGB connectors). Anyone know of a place to get one. On the same thought, who do people recommend as a source for parts like this. I used to use MCM Electronics, but they seem to be moving more towards the flashy side of things and are carrying less and less variety of small parts. This would normally probably be on topic, but its for a repair of non-classic item, so its slightly off topic. -chris From rborsuk at colourfull.com Fri Apr 25 09:41:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:14 2005 Subject: [Slightly OT] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a brand new one in stock you can have for $1.00 plus shipping. Rob Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com On Friday, April 25, 2003, at 10:26 AM, chris wrote: > Ugh. Sorry to ask this here, but I know many of you will know the > answer. > > I'm looking for a 15 pin High Density, PC Mount, D-Sub, Right Angle, > Female socket. In other words, I have a VGA socket that I need to > replace > on a board. > > I'm have a surprisingly difficult time tracking one down. I can find 9 > and 25 pin all I want, I can even find 15 pin, but not in the high > density format (just the regular 2 rows like used in ethernet AUI or > Mac > RGB connectors). > > Anyone know of a place to get one. > > On the same thought, who do people recommend as a source for parts like > this. I used to use MCM Electronics, but they seem to be moving more > towards the flashy side of things and are carrying less and less > variety > of small parts. > > This would normally probably be on topic, but its for a repair of > non-classic item, so its slightly off topic. > > -chris > From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Apr 25 09:47:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: [Slightly OT] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://www.mouser.com g. On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, chris wrote: > Ugh. Sorry to ask this here, but I know many of you will know the answer. > > I'm looking for a 15 pin High Density, PC Mount, D-Sub, Right Angle, > Female socket. In other words, I have a VGA socket that I need to replace > on a board. > > I'm have a surprisingly difficult time tracking one down. I can find 9 > and 25 pin all I want, I can even find 15 pin, but not in the high > density format (just the regular 2 rows like used in ethernet AUI or Mac > RGB connectors). > > Anyone know of a place to get one. > > On the same thought, who do people recommend as a source for parts like > this. I used to use MCM Electronics, but they seem to be moving more > towards the flashy side of things and are carrying less and less variety > of small parts. > > This would normally probably be on topic, but its for a repair of > non-classic item, so its slightly off topic. > > -chris > From jss at subatomix.com Fri Apr 25 09:58:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <003a01c30a7b$93436ab0$0181a8c0@k4jcw> References: <20030424154851.GA12362@subatomix.com> <003a01c30a7b$93436ab0$0181a8c0@k4jcw> Message-ID: <20030425150205.GA18422@subatomix.com> On Thursday, April 24, 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > > My favorite idea is simply to have sealed bids. That is, you don't know > > the high bid until the auction closes. Doing it that way prevents > > last-minute psychology from causing bad decisions. > > Out of curiosity, why is it in my best interest as a seller to prevent > people from making rash decisions? As a seller, there are two advantages that I can identify. First, it promotes customer satisfaction, which leads to a more profitable long-term relationship with the customer. Second, people who make rash decisions are less likely to pay, and nonpaying bidders are a real pain. It may be worth it to reduce the probability of experiencing that pain. As both a seller and a bidder, eBay is a great tool for discovering the approximate values of things. Last-minute auction psychology, IMHO, artificially inflates these prices (though generally not by much). A sealed-bid system, by decreasing the last-minute effect, would make eBay's market values for things more accurately reflect the market values outside of eBay. Thus, eBay would become a better value estimation tool. As a bidder, it's currently inconvenient. The way eBay works (and I'm not really a big eBay basher; I have lots of fun with it), if you really want to be competitive, you have to snipe. You have to be paying attention when the auction ends (I wouldn't trust a sniping service IMHO). That's difficult to do for a great many people and depends on work, weather, and a virtually infinite number of other factors. A sealed-bid system would enable people to bid -- competitively -- at their convenience and then go on about their lives. > It's not my moral or social responsibility to keep others from making > stupid decisions. I do not have the following view, but some may say that it is unethical to take advantage of people by exploiting their psychology. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Fri Apr 25 10:03:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <39056.130.76.32.21.1051202170.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> References: <20030424154851.GA12362@subatomix.com> <003a01c30a7b$93436ab0$0181a8c0@k4jcw> <39056.130.76.32.21.1051202170.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <20030425150707.GB18422@subatomix.com> On Thursday, April 24, 2003, Mike wrote: > But as I mentioned before, the only one whining about this are the ones > that used to find "steals" and are not complaining because they can't get > these "steals." I'm not really complaining as much as I am saying "What if?". I still enjoy eBay a great deal and buy something from it every week or so. I usually browse every day. > The only ones being hurt by the eBay model are the ones that still want > "bargains". Bargains still happen on eBay. -- Jeffrey Sharp From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Apr 25 10:39:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030425150205.GA18422@subatomix.com> References: <003a01c30a7b$93436ab0$0181a8c0@k4jcw> <20030424154851.GA12362@subatomix.com> <003a01c30a7b$93436ab0$0181a8c0@k4jcw> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030425113139.056d18d0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Jeffrey, > (I wouldn't trust a sniping service IMHO) The sniping service has missed getting a bid in on a couple of occasions due to delays caused by high network traffic loads > You have to be paying attention when the auction ends This one gets me sometimes. There have been some items I had meant to bid on, but ended up getting too busy, and then when I got to checking the auction, found I had let the time get away from me, and it was already over and done. There are some advantages to getting one's bid entered early also. At 10:02 AM 4/25/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Thursday, April 24, 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > > > My favorite idea is simply to have sealed bids. That is, you don't know > > > the high bid until the auction closes. Doing it that way prevents > > > last-minute psychology from causing bad decisions. > > > > Out of curiosity, why is it in my best interest as a seller to prevent > > people from making rash decisions? > >As a seller, there are two advantages that I can identify. First, it >promotes customer satisfaction, which leads to a more profitable long-term >relationship with the customer. Second, people who make rash decisions are >less likely to pay, and nonpaying bidders are a real pain. It may be worth >it to reduce the probability of experiencing that pain. > >As both a seller and a bidder, eBay is a great tool for discovering the >approximate values of things. Last-minute auction psychology, IMHO, >artificially inflates these prices (though generally not by much). A >sealed-bid system, by decreasing the last-minute effect, would make eBay's >market values for things more accurately reflect the market values outside >of eBay. Thus, eBay would become a better value estimation tool. > >As a bidder, it's currently inconvenient. The way eBay works (and I'm not >really a big eBay basher; I have lots of fun with it), if you really want to >be competitive, you have to snipe. You have to be paying attention when the >auction ends (I wouldn't trust a sniping service IMHO). That's difficult to >do for a great many people and depends on work, weather, and a virtually >infinite number of other factors. A sealed-bid system would enable people >to bid -- competitively -- at their convenience and then go on about their >lives. > > > It's not my moral or social responsibility to keep others from making > > stupid decisions. > >I do not have the following view, but some may say that it is unethical to >take advantage of people by exploiting their psychology. > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp From marvin at rain.org Fri Apr 25 10:41:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: Ebay SNAFU References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424235040.05e35ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3EA956A3.253224A6@rain.org> Mail List wrote: > What's the url to the archive? The DNF archives are posted at http://www.manuals2go.com/dnf/. > > > Several of us scrolled the board so that URL was no longer > > available for public viewing ... and ended up getting suspended for it. > Sure wasn't the first time eBay suspended someone on the DNF board. > It's only temporary, I hope? It is an indefinite suspension from posting to the ebay boards. There are a lot of *PISSED* off people over the situation, myself included! > > At 07:18 PM 4/24/03 -0700, you wrote: > >With all this talk about the ebay DNF board, just thought some of you > >would like to know what is going on there. Basically, a number of people > >(10 or so that I know of), myself included, were suspended today from > >posting on any of the boards. Seems that a *MAJOR* SNAFU on their part > >last night left open a database that documented the complaints that were > >being generated by (I think) the Report Button; that URL got posted on > >the DNF Board. That database included *who* generated the complaint, and > >several DNFers started browsing the database to find out who the > >snitches are. Several of us scrolled the board so that URL was no longer > >available for public viewing ... and ended up getting suspended for it. > > > > From my standpoing, this further verifies comments I've made about the > >inept ebay management! Some people from the media have been contacted, > >so you may be hearing more about this :). From marvin at rain.org Fri Apr 25 10:55:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: Ebay SNAFU References: <3EA89AFA.67AC2FA2@rain.org> <018901c30ae3$86466480$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <3EA959E3.F85488E1@rain.org> Stuart Johnson wrote: > > I realize this shows my total ignorance - but what is the "DNF" board on > eBay? Curiosity overwhelms me... The DNF Board is the "Discuss Newest Features" board on Ebay. Before everyone got suspended, it was one of the best places to get answers to almost any question about ebay. It also had the reputation among the pinks (ebay staff who occassionaly visit the boards, pinks because that is the color of their header when they post) of being the DMZ. It also had the reputation of being the first place that any problems with ebay were found and posted. Most of the regulars expected the worst from ebay "management", and were rarely disappointed. Most of the regulars who were suspended are over at the SYI lounge at http://www.sellyouritem.com/Lounge.html. At least there, you can ask questions and not worry about the ever changing rules and interpretations present on ebay. Least I be too misunderstood, the concept of online auctions is a great one. However Ebay has chosen to rape the concept with little consideration given to the community that helped build it. A few of the problems include a search engine that doesn't always work properly, site reliabiity problems, the HH (hoops and hurdles) factor when it comes to needing support, an ever increasing amount of fraud, and the list goes on. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 11:27:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: Publishing old manuals and books on the web. Legal? In-Reply-To: <001801c30b00$2e7dae80$8543cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > I would just put them up. If/when you get a cease & desist > > letter, take the offending material off and that's that. > > There's also that small matter of $150,000 statutory damages for willful > infringement per copyrighted work ($30,000 per work for non-willful) > under the copyright statute. Oops. Who snuck those laws on the books? ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Fri Apr 25 12:28:00 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030425150205.GA18422@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030425172624.68470.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: You have to be > paying attention when the > auction ends (I wouldn't trust a sniping service > IMHO). I use esnipe, and only once did it miss a bid, and that was two years ago when both ebay and esnipe were buggy, since then its always place the bid within a few seconds of my target time. I can't ever imagine going back to the old manual method because of the difficulties you listed below. That's difficult to > do for a great many people and depends on work, > weather, and a virtually > infinite number of other factors. I think you just need to use esnipe a few times to build your confidence The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Fri Apr 25 13:45:00 2003 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (Shannon Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming References: Message-ID: <014201c30b4e$60d17440$1bd2f7a5@shannon> We would be very interested and could pay fair prices. Could we get a list of the gear? Best regards, Shannon Hoskins pds3@ix.netcom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Tapley" To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming > All, > Got this from the guy in Houston who supplied the VAX VLC machines. > Contact him (best) or me if you are interested. > > >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:33:16 -0500 (CDT) > >From: sandmann@clio.rice.edu (Charles Sandmann) > >Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming > ... > > > >I was just notified today by the ChemE department head at Rice that it > >is time to clean out one of the labs. It has mostly PDP stuff, some > >VAX stuff, documentation, some media. KZ's going to make a rough list > >so we can estimate the volume. The VAX stuff has been used in the last > >year, but most of the PDP stuff has been off for 8 years or more, so > >may need some TLC when being checked out the first time (if you don't > >know about power supply caps, you probably shouldn't ask :-) I've made > >some promises for some of this stuff already - but if there is something > >you are dying for, it might be a good time to remind me. Between the > >Rice stash and the AspenTech stash, there should be lots of machines > >for everyone. > > > >If Intel IRMX (?) means anything to anyone, bug me. I think thats the > >system name - and they are rare (but not DEC stuff ...) > > > >I think we will keep the extra RS6000/AIX IBM systems for spare parts > >for clio - but you never know... > > > >I know there are some VT103s (VT100 systems with built in dual TU58s > >and QBUS backplanes) - lots of QBUS cards, an 11/23+ rack mount system, > >BA123 based MicroVAX II with ESDI and RQDX3/RD54 disks. I think the > >11/23+ has an RQDX1 with RD51 drive (don't cringe!), dual RX02s > >(I have a requirement to be able to read some media on these first!) > > > >There is a requirement to take lots of pictures for our scrapbook :-) From jss at subatomix.com Fri Apr 25 13:50:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030425172624.68470.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030425150205.GA18422@subatomix.com> <20030425172624.68470.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030425185433.GA19615@subatomix.com> On Friday, April 25, 2003, steve wrote: > --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > You have to be paying attention when the auction ends (I wouldn't trust > > a sniping service IMHO). > > I think you just need to use esnipe a few times to build your confidence So what happens when you and I both use the same sniping service on the same auction for the same bid? -- Jeffrey Sharp From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 14:05:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030425185433.GA19615@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Friday, April 25, 2003, steve wrote: > > --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > You have to be paying attention when the auction ends (I wouldn't trust > > > a sniping service IMHO). > > > > I think you just need to use esnipe a few times to build your confidence > > So what happens when you and I both use the same sniping service on the same > auction for the same bid? The universe implodes and we start all over again in about 15 billion years. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Fri Apr 25 14:14:00 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030425185433.GA19615@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030425191254.85734.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > So what happens when you and I both use the same > sniping service on the same > auction for the same bid? The bid placed earlist would win (well, assuming no other higher bids were placed). You tell esnipe exactly when to bid (its accurate to a few seconds). No two ebay bids occur at exactly the same time, even with a sniping service. So even if we both tell esnipe to bid 5 seconds before the auction ends. One may be placed 5.01 seconds and the other perhaps 4.99 seconds before the auction ends. Depends how the server ques us up... The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 14:18:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <57E3E67A-76F3-11D7-803A-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > There will never be any true or even consistent determination of a > thing's "objective value". It's a null phrase, an impossibility. Perhaps. But there has to be at least some generally acceptable standard by which people can use to trade fairly. We do not really have that right now. > "Value", by its very definition, is purely subjective. Any attempt to > assign an immutable quantity will fail. Even the criteria you've used > as constants are variable, and subject to personal interpretation. I can concur with that. > "True" scarcity? You intend to verify each unit produced, and verify > the destruction of each unit not known to still exist? It's not > possible. Ok, perhaps "true" was too strong an adjective. But it is not impossible to give an educated estimate (based on good research) as to how many units are out there. I've just learned of possibly four more Apple-1's that I was not aware of before, which will take the total of known units in my personal registry to 32 (I still have to verify there is not overlap from what I already know). With significant machines produced in low numbers, such as the Apple-1 and PDP-8, it may not be all that impossible to estimate within a margin of error of +/-15% the total number of units out there. Once that number can be ascertained, a reliable "value" based on demand could be established, and trading can then be conducted on that basis of knowledge. Of course, there is still variation based on condition and accessories (peripherals, documentation, software, etc.) and that can also be objectively valued with more research. > Regional and *perceived* scarcity are much more relevant factors to > real current value than some assigned global scarcity. A good example > is the plight of the DEC collectors in Australia and New Zealand, who > would commit unnnatural acts for a working VAX. Meanwhile, I have a > stack of them in storage, besides the several I use at home. I would > drive across town to rescue another VS3100, but I doubt that I'd pay > cash for one. Wasn't someone just arguing in a message a short while ago that eBay has now opened up a global market and therefore increased demand to the same finite supply? Of course, this depends on whether or not you use eBay to market your wares. And then there's the issue of shipping charges, which adds to the overall "value" that a person will assign to something. If it can be had for $1 but costs $99 to ship, it could be considered to be worth just as much as someone who could pick it up locally and would be willing to pay $100. This assumes that the buyer is taking shipping into consideration when they put down their bid. But regional scarcity implies ignorance on the part of the buyer. You cannot always rely on this. And in a global market like collectable computers, you cannot completely rely on this anymore. > Understand that I'm not nit-picking. I'm trying to demonstrate that > the "artificial" influences on eBay, realtime auctions, the feeding > frenzies I've seen at swap meets -- they are _valid_ factors in the > value of any product, and doubly so with collectibles. I can't entirely agree. I'll pull up an old example. If people are regularly paying $10 for Apple //e's and then some uninformed buyer one day pays $500, are all Apple //e's suddenly worth $500? or some significant amount over $10 that is arrived at by averaging in the $500 sale? I say no, it's still only worth $10. > My PDP-11/53's "true" "objective" value would have to be nil. There's > nothing it can do that can't be done more efficiently by a later > PDP-11, and nothing *I* do with it that I couldn't do in SIMH, much > faster and at a much lower real expense. Its value is *entirely* > emotional, and entirely subjective. Then what was it worth when it was new? Wasn't the "value" then also entirely emotional and subjective? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jss at subatomix.com Fri Apr 25 14:21:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? Message-ID: <20030425192509.GB19615@subatomix.com> Forgive me if this has already been discussed today; I don't have time at the moment to scan the entire thread. With this latest round of discussion about eBay, the thought crossed my mind that maybe we need our own WWW auction site. It would only contain classic computers and related items, and it could be designed in such a way that would please a large number of list members and colleagues, including those who avoid eBay. Could I hear some opinions on this, please? My WWW-related programming skills -- not my traditional forte -- have seriously improved since the last time we discussed ideas for the CC site. In fact, I've been doing it for money at my workplace for the last few weeks. For several months now, I've been increasingly interested in implementing some of the ideas I've had for ClassicCmp improvements, and if people think it is a good idea, an auction subsite would make for a very interesting project. Don't worry; there are no weblogs up my sleeve. :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 14:21:30 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: Valuing classic computers, was re: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <3EA90183.9020000@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > All these factors play a role and that is why I think eBay prices DO > reflect market value. eBay provides an almost perfect global marketplace > and in such an environment prices will fluctuate around a "market value". And again, I disagree, precisely because of the way that eBay auctions work, and the factors that can influence a final selling price. However, I will say that as time goes on, and using eBay becomes a way of life, the values will normalize somewhat, and I think we are seeing that with certain items now. > > I think Michael Nadeau's book made great strides towards this end, but > > refinement is still needed. > > Not having had the opportunity to see a copy I cannot comment, but > without denigrating his good work, I would question the real world > relevance of any value placed on any particular machine at a particular > moment in time. As I mentioned previously, the relevance is in establishing a baseline value upon which two people can efficiently trade. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From marvin at rain.org Fri Apr 25 14:39:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:15 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? References: <20030425192509.GB19615@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3EA98E78.563ACF95@rain.org> I think this is a great idea, but I'm not sure we need to re-invent the wheel here. There are existing auction sites that will do what needs to be done. SYI, for example, has been mentioned here in the past (and I am taking a look at them again getting ready to list some stuff.) And if we approach such a site as a group of interested people, they are more likely to incorporate things we would like to see. From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Apr 25 15:00:01 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? References: <20030425192509.GB19615@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3EA9935E.1000203@eoni.com> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >Forgive me if this has already been discussed today; I don't have time at >the moment to scan the entire thread. > >With this latest round of discussion about eBay, the thought crossed my mind >that maybe we need our own WWW auction site. It would only contain classic >computers and related items, and it could be designed in such a way that >would please a large number of list members and colleagues, including those >who avoid eBay. Could I hear some opinions on this, please? > >My WWW-related programming skills -- not my traditional forte -- have >seriously improved since the last time we discussed ideas for the CC site. >In fact, I've been doing it for money at my workplace for the last few >weeks. For several months now, I've been increasingly interested in >implementing some of the ideas I've had for ClassicCmp improvements, and if >people think it is a good idea, an auction subsite would make for a very >interesting project. Don't worry; there are no weblogs up my sleeve. :-) > > > Personally, I think that this is an excellent idea. It wouldn't have to be at all elaborate. Just some webspace to advertise one's 'spares'. For "auction" it could easily be 'best offer by...' A true sealed bid auction! The VW bus community does this on their website at: Of course, it would require someone willing to spend the time to administer it. Jim From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Apr 25 15:18:01 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? In-Reply-To: <3EA9935E.1000203@eoni.com> from Jim at "Apr 25, 3 12:58:22 pm" Message-ID: <200304252027.NAA09018@floodgap.com> > The VW bus community does this on their website at: > Of course, it would require someone willing to spend the time to > administer it. It probably would be helpful if it were worth their while, like a small fee for a successful sale. IMO. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- DON'T PANIC! --------------------------------------------------------------- From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Apr 25 15:25:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: References: <57E3E67A-76F3-11D7-803A-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030425162043.00a481e0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > some significant amount over $10 that is arrived at by averaging in the $500 sale? You probably should use more advanced statistical analysis tools than just a simple average. Been a long time, but the terms that come to mind are mean, and standard deviation. At 12:14 PM 4/25/03 -0700, you wrote: >On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > There will never be any true or even consistent determination of a > > thing's "objective value". It's a null phrase, an impossibility. > >Perhaps. But there has to be at least some generally acceptable standard >by which people can use to trade fairly. We do not really have that right >now. > > > "Value", by its very definition, is purely subjective. Any attempt to > > assign an immutable quantity will fail. Even the criteria you've used > > as constants are variable, and subject to personal interpretation. > >I can concur with that. > > > "True" scarcity? You intend to verify each unit produced, and verify > > the destruction of each unit not known to still exist? It's not > > possible. > >Ok, perhaps "true" was too strong an adjective. But it is not impossible >to give an educated estimate (based on good research) as to how many units >are out there. I've just learned of possibly four more Apple-1's that I >was not aware of before, which will take the total of known units in my >personal registry to 32 (I still have to verify there is not overlap from >what I already know). > >With significant machines produced in low numbers, such as the Apple-1 and >PDP-8, it may not be all that impossible to estimate within a margin of >error of +/-15% the total number of units out there. Once that number can >be ascertained, a reliable "value" based on demand could be established, >and trading can then be conducted on that basis of knowledge. > >Of course, there is still variation based on condition and accessories >(peripherals, documentation, software, etc.) and that can also be >objectively valued with more research. > > > Regional and *perceived* scarcity are much more relevant factors to > > real current value than some assigned global scarcity. A good example > > is the plight of the DEC collectors in Australia and New Zealand, who > > would commit unnnatural acts for a working VAX. Meanwhile, I have a > > stack of them in storage, besides the several I use at home. I would > > drive across town to rescue another VS3100, but I doubt that I'd pay > > cash for one. > >Wasn't someone just arguing in a message a short while ago that eBay has >now opened up a global market and therefore increased demand to the same >finite supply? Of course, this depends on whether or not you use eBay to >market your wares. And then there's the issue of shipping charges, which >adds to the overall "value" that a person will assign to something. If it >can be had for $1 but costs $99 to ship, it could be considered to be >worth just as much as someone who could pick it up locally and would be >willing to pay $100. This assumes that the buyer is taking shipping into >consideration when they put down their bid. > >But regional scarcity implies ignorance on the part of the buyer. You >cannot always rely on this. And in a global market like collectable >computers, you cannot completely rely on this anymore. > > > Understand that I'm not nit-picking. I'm trying to demonstrate that > > the "artificial" influences on eBay, realtime auctions, the feeding > > frenzies I've seen at swap meets -- they are _valid_ factors in the > > value of any product, and doubly so with collectibles. > >I can't entirely agree. I'll pull up an old example. If people are >regularly paying $10 for Apple //e's and then some uninformed buyer one >day pays $500, are all Apple //e's suddenly worth $500? or some >significant amount over $10 that is arrived at by averaging in the $500 >sale? > >I say no, it's still only worth $10. > > > My PDP-11/53's "true" "objective" value would have to be nil. There's > > nothing it can do that can't be done more efficiently by a later > > PDP-11, and nothing *I* do with it that I couldn't do in SIMH, much > > faster and at a much lower real expense. Its value is *entirely* > > emotional, and entirely subjective. > >Then what was it worth when it was new? Wasn't the "value" then also >entirely emotional and subjective? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Fri Apr 25 15:27:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? References: <20030425192509.GB19615@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <007901c30b68$b053eba0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Could I hear some opinions on this, please? I kinda like eBay, but hate the customer service - too many hurdles, as was mentioned earlier. One problem of having our own engine is the dilemma - have it be private and the prices will be lower. have it be public and the legal hassles as regards patented functionality kick in. FYI > don't have time at the moment to scan the entire thread. Talk about not having the time. Imagine the possibilities for dispute with our own auctions going on. I have given away about 16 lots of items now on list and have had 2 nonpayers. Also FYI. John A. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 25 15:27:25 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030425191254.85734.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, steve wrote: > --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > So what happens when you and I both use the same > > sniping service on the same > > auction for the same bid? > > The bid placed earlist would win (well, assuming no > other higher bids were placed). You tell esnipe > exactly when to bid (its accurate to a few seconds). I use StealthBid. It's accurate to the second. The only time I lose an auction with StealthBid is either when I didn't bid enough or someone outsnipes me in the last second (StealthBid gets it's bid in within the last 3-4 seconds of an auction). http://www.stealthbid.com (free credits for new users so you can trial the service) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Apr 25 15:40:01 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030425191254.85734.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030425191254.85734.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EA99C38.6050601@charter.net> I bid on a NeXT cube in 2001. I had exactly the same bid as the winning bidder and the item display had the same bid time down to the second. I questioned ebay about it. They gave me the bid time down to .01 second. I missed the bid by .01 second. James steve wrote: >--- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > >>So what happens when you and I both use the same >>sniping service on the same >>auction for the same bid? >> >> > >The bid placed earlist would win (well, assuming no >other higher bids were placed). You tell esnipe >exactly when to bid (its accurate to a few seconds). > >No two ebay bids occur at exactly the same time, even >with a sniping service. So even if we both tell >esnipe to bid 5 seconds before the auction ends. One >may be placed 5.01 seconds and the other perhaps 4.99 >seconds before the auction ends. Depends how the >server ques us up... >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo >http://search.yahoo.com From Technoid at 30below.com Fri Apr 25 15:59:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming In-Reply-To: <014201c30b4e$60d17440$1bd2f7a5@shannon> Message-ID: <000501c30b6d$9c721990$6300a8c0@benchbox> I could sure use manuals for the Vaxstation 4000/60. Mine boots in two stages and I KNOW there is a way to set the prom to just doggone BOOT. Best, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Hoskins Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 1:16 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: More DEC Stuff Coming We would be very interested and could pay fair prices. Could we get a list of the gear? Best regards, Shannon Hoskins pds3@ix.netcom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Tapley" To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming > All, > Got this from the guy in Houston who supplied the VAX VLC machines. > Contact him (best) or me if you are interested. > > >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:33:16 -0500 (CDT) > >From: sandmann@clio.rice.edu (Charles Sandmann) > >Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming > ... > > > >I was just notified today by the ChemE department head at Rice that it > >is time to clean out one of the labs. It has mostly PDP stuff, some > >VAX stuff, documentation, some media. KZ's going to make a rough list > >so we can estimate the volume. The VAX stuff has been used in the last > >year, but most of the PDP stuff has been off for 8 years or more, so > >may need some TLC when being checked out the first time (if you don't > >know about power supply caps, you probably shouldn't ask :-) I've made > >some promises for some of this stuff already - but if there is something > >you are dying for, it might be a good time to remind me. Between the > >Rice stash and the AspenTech stash, there should be lots of machines > >for everyone. > > > >If Intel IRMX (?) means anything to anyone, bug me. I think thats the > >system name - and they are rare (but not DEC stuff ...) > > > >I think we will keep the extra RS6000/AIX IBM systems for spare parts > >for clio - but you never know... > > > >I know there are some VT103s (VT100 systems with built in dual TU58s > >and QBUS backplanes) - lots of QBUS cards, an 11/23+ rack mount system, > >BA123 based MicroVAX II with ESDI and RQDX3/RD54 disks. I think the > >11/23+ has an RQDX1 with RD51 drive (don't cringe!), dual RX02s > >(I have a requirement to be able to read some media on these first!) > > > >There is a requirement to take lots of pictures for our scrapbook :-) From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 25 15:59:56 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? References: <20030425192509.GB19615@subatomix.com> <3EA9935E.1000203@eoni.com> Message-ID: <00a901c30b6d$4b459ce0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I had brought a similar request to Jeff Sharp via a telephone call a while back for implementation. I thought it was a "done deal". My plan was to not create an "auction site" persay, because that is a rather huge task, and because - well, there IS ebay. So instead, I had asked him to create an "available" site. It would only be open to list members (password protected). On the site they could list all their spare inventory, and/or equipment they were willing to trade. That way, people could perhaps find things they were looking for more easily from other listmembers, and work their own deals (cash or trade), without going through ebay. My vote is of course to proceed with this idea, any thoughts? Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 2:58 PM Subject: Re: ClassicCmp Auction Site? > Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > >Forgive me if this has already been discussed today; I don't have time at > >the moment to scan the entire thread. > > > >With this latest round of discussion about eBay, the thought crossed my mind > >that maybe we need our own WWW auction site. It would only contain classic > >computers and related items, and it could be designed in such a way that > >would please a large number of list members and colleagues, including those > >who avoid eBay. Could I hear some opinions on this, please? > > > >My WWW-related programming skills -- not my traditional forte -- have > >seriously improved since the last time we discussed ideas for the CC site. > >In fact, I've been doing it for money at my workplace for the last few > >weeks. For several months now, I've been increasingly interested in > >implementing some of the ideas I've had for ClassicCmp improvements, and if > >people think it is a good idea, an auction subsite would make for a very > >interesting project. Don't worry; there are no weblogs up my sleeve. :-) > > > > > > > Personally, I think that this is an excellent idea. It wouldn't have to > be at all elaborate. Just some webspace to advertise one's 'spares'. > For "auction" it could easily be 'best offer by...' A true sealed bid > auction! > > The VW bus community does this on their website at: > > Of course, it would require someone willing to spend the time to > administer it. > > Jim From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 25 16:19:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: Real Cost vs Real Value; was Re: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4BCE75C6-7763-11D7-8D8D-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Preface: I come at this from a slightly different viewpoint. My father was a manufacturer, as well as distributor of other firms' product. I literally grew up wheeling and dealing, and learning through loss of my allowance the difference between cost, value, and the expenses that lie between. My mother is a professor of business economics at a business college, and teaches at a nuts & bolts level. What's different is that they were also missionaries in Uganda and Kenya for several months each year while Mother was taking her Master's, and she used the Ugandan economy and the concept of "relative regional valuation" in her thesis. I absorbed a good bit of that, although not at any deep level. I've found eBay to be a very compressed, very accelerated microcosmic example of not only my mother's observations, but of general business principles of valuation and distribution. To quote the, uhm, well, anyway, to quote Richard Erlacher, "See below, plz." On Friday, April 25, 2003, at 02:14 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: >> Regional and *perceived* scarcity are much more relevant factors to >> real current value than some assigned global scarcity. A good example >> is the plight of the DEC collectors in Australia and New Zealand, who >> would commit unnnatural acts for a working VAX. Meanwhile, I have a >> stack of them in storage, besides the several I use at home. I would >> drive across town to rescue another VS3100, but I doubt that I'd pay >> cash for one. > > Wasn't someone just arguing in a message a short while ago that eBay > has > now opened up a global market and therefore increased demand to the > same > finite supply? Of course, this depends on whether or not you use eBay > to > market your wares. And then there's the issue of shipping charges, > which > adds to the overall "value" that a person will assign to something. > If it > can be had for $1 but costs $99 to ship, it could be considered to be > worth just as much as someone who could pick it up locally and would be > willing to pay $100. This assumes that the buyer is taking shipping > into > consideration when they put down their bid. > > But regional scarcity implies ignorance on the part of the buyer. You > cannot always rely on this. And in a global market like collectable > computers, you cannot completely rely on this anymore. Here I think you're not recognizing the difference between value and cost. To mix our examples, the real _cost_ of a VAXstation 3100 in Austin - to me - is, say, $1 USD. To someone in Melbourne, I'm guessing the cost is much closer to $100 USD. Since I know there are persons in Australia who would like to have one, and they haven't contacted me to inquire about shipping arrangements, I can safely assume that the real _value_ in Australia doesn't approach the real _cost_. That's the condition of regional scarcity to which I referred. While my example isn't extreme enough to warrant shipping a container of VAXen, it does imply, rightly I think, that the Australian owner of a VAXstation 3100 could expect a selling price many times higher than I could expect. >> Understand that I'm not nit-picking. I'm trying to demonstrate >> that >> the "artificial" influences on eBay, realtime auctions, the feeding >> frenzies I've seen at swap meets -- they are _valid_ factors in the >> value of any product, and doubly so with collectibles. > > I can't entirely agree. I'll pull up an old example. If people are > regularly paying $10 for Apple //e's and then some uninformed buyer one > day pays $500, are all Apple //e's suddenly worth $500? or some > significant amount over $10 that is arrived at by averaging in the $500 > sale? > > I say no, it's still only worth $10. To you as buyer or to you as seller? As buyer, absolutely. If the thing was worth more than $10 to me as a buyer, and they had been selling at $10, I'd have already sated myself on $11 Apple //e's, so that spike would be irrelevant. :) As seller, it's more complicated. The answer would be "No, but yes." If I put an Apple //e on the newsgroup at a fixed price, I'd look at the low side of this config and condition, as indicated by eBay and any other references I can find to actual sales, add 25-50%, and settle for the best offer. If I have 100 //e's and I put them up at a Dutch auction, I would have to expect $8 or $9 each at best. Auctioned as a single lot, maybe $2 each or even less. If I have 100 units and I auction them singly, well presented, records of high price spikes would either be rare enough to not affect the average sale, or common enough to indicate that I may benefit from that mania. >> My PDP-11/53's "true" "objective" value would have to be nil. >> There's >> nothing it can do that can't be done more efficiently by a later >> PDP-11, and nothing *I* do with it that I couldn't do in SIMH, much >> faster and at a much lower real expense. Its value is *entirely* >> emotional, and entirely subjective. > > Then what was it worth when it was new? Wasn't the "value" then also > entirely emotional and subjective? Sure. Its "value" was simply more widely acknowledged. Doc From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 25 17:16:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? In-Reply-To: <00a901c30b6d$4b459ce0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20030425192509.GB19615@subatomix.com> <3EA9935E.1000203@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030425150852.031f1b20@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 03:57 PM 4/25/03 -0500, Jay West wrote: >My vote is of course to proceed with this idea, any thoughts? Good idea, I suggest you make it a scrolling site, ie any list member can post a text message (with html links too I guess), but after some fixed time the text and all drops into the bit bucket, and would need to be reposted if desired. Or maybe better, two sections, one of links to our own out of date pages that stays forever, and a second section of scrolling endless text. Also beyond limiting to list members, maybe it should be list members of at least a week or so, so we don't get people joining the list, just to post somethng perhaps offtopic forsale. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 25 17:17:09 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: Virus alert that may effect us all In-Reply-To: <00a901c30b6d$4b459ce0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20030425192509.GB19615@subatomix.com> <3EA9935E.1000203@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030425150541.031ebab0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Beware of C-nile VIRUS Just got this in from a reliable source. It seems that there is a virus out there called the C-nile Virus that even the most advanced programs from Norton and McAfee cannot take care of, so be warned, it appears to affect those users born before 1958! Symptoms of C-nile Virus - Causes you to: -- send same e-mail twice. -- send blank e-mail. -- send to wrong person. -- send it back to person who sent it to you. -- forget to attach the attachment. -- hit "SEND" before you've finished the .......... From marvin at rain.org Fri Apr 25 17:26:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? References: <20030425192509.GB19615@subatomix.com> <3EA9935E.1000203@eoni.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030425150852.031f1b20@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3EA9B580.9E1B7368@rain.org> What is the difference between that, and posting to this list? We have talked in the past about having a separate site for posting stuff to sell, but it seems that few people are interested. Mike Ford wrote: > > At 03:57 PM 4/25/03 -0500, Jay West wrote: > >My vote is of course to proceed with this idea, any thoughts? > > Good idea, I suggest you make it a scrolling site, ie any list member can > post a text message (with html links too I guess), but after some fixed > time the text and all drops into the bit bucket, and would need to be > reposted if desired. Or maybe better, two sections, one of links to our own > out of date pages that stays forever, and a second section of scrolling > endless text. > > Also beyond limiting to list members, maybe it should be list members of at > least a week or so, so we don't get people joining the list, just to post > somethng perhaps offtopic forsale. From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 25 17:57:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? In-Reply-To: <20030425192509.GB19615@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <0BC181C4-7771-11D7-8D8D-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Friday, April 25, 2003, at 02:25 PM, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > With this latest round of discussion about eBay, the thought crossed > my mind > that maybe we need our own WWW auction site. It would only contain > classic > computers and related items, and it could be designed in such a way > that > would please a large number of list members and colleagues, including > those > who avoid eBay. Could I hear some opinions on this, please? I'd be more interested in a straight "for sale/wanted" list. It's simple enough to post a best-offer item, with a cutoff date if so desired. Lots less maintenance, we could ask for stuff, and participants can shape their sales to suit themselves. Plus, you don't have to choose between becoming an auction caller and excluding our Illinois-based brethren. ;) I think some kind of dedicated intra-ClassicCmp trading forum is a really groovy idea. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 25 18:04:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming In-Reply-To: <000501c30b6d$9c721990$6300a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: On Friday, April 25, 2003, at 03:59 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > I could sure use manuals for the Vaxstation 4000/60. Mine boots in two > stages and I KNOW there is a way to set the prom to just doggone BOOT. Ack. I have those, in BookReader format. *When* I get a little caught up, I'll dig them up, if nobody has done it. I'd love to promise that now or soon, but I'm frankly over-committed to my eyeballs right now, and finding the files will involve some searching. All you HP guys - this weekend. Last stab at translating tapes to CD, and then we're going with what we got. Expect private email Monday or Tuesday. Full-height racks rock. Doc From elecdata1 at gbronline.com Fri Apr 25 18:09:01 2003 From: elecdata1 at gbronline.com (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? References: <20030425192509.GB19615@subatomix.com> <3EA98E78.563ACF95@rain.org> Message-ID: <3EA9BE1A.74601EEF@gbronline.com> Howdy Marvin! LTNS I agree with you completely about SellYourItem.com, I know from past experience that the support will look seriously at opening up cat's for the serious seller. I have had several opened up by them for classic mauals, and electronics, etc.. If those reading this thread would take a look at the site, it may just work out for the list. Bill Marvin Johnston wrote: > I think this is a great idea, but I'm not sure we need to re-invent the > wheel here. There are existing auction sites that will do what needs to > be done. SYI, for example, has been mentioned here in the past (and I am > taking a look at them again getting ready to list some stuff.) And if we > approach such a site as a group of interested people, they are more > likely to incorporate things we would like to see. > > >From my perspective, there are two issues. 1) wanting to get the most > money out of something, and 2) wanting to get it to a collector/user ... > they are not necessarily exclusive :). There is probably not much doubt > that ebay is the place that will usually bring in the most money. But > the pricing (and philosophy) there does drive some collectors away. > > Things I would like to see in a ClassicCmp auction site: > > links/descriptions of equipment that could be incorporated in listings > a mechanism to allow trades of equipment > a way of qualifying buyers and sellers before they list/bid/trade. > > And the list could go on, but this is a start. > > Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > > Forgive me if this has already been discussed today; I don't have time at > > the moment to scan the entire thread. > > > > With this latest round of discussion about eBay, the thought crossed my mind > > that maybe we need our own WWW auction site. It would only contain classic > > computers and related items, and it could be designed in such a way that > > would please a large number of list members and colleagues, including those > > who avoid eBay. Could I hear some opinions on this, please? > > > > My WWW-related programming skills -- not my traditional forte -- have > > seriously improved since the last time we discussed ideas for the CC site. > > In fact, I've been doing it for money at my workplace for the last few > > weeks. For several months now, I've been increasingly interested in > > implementing some of the ideas I've had for ClassicCmp improvements, and if > > people think it is a good idea, an auction subsite would make for a very > > interesting project. Don't worry; there are no weblogs up my sleeve. :-) > > > > -- > > Jeffrey Sharp From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Apr 25 18:13:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC13@lif015.vtmerlin.com> > Full-height racks rock. Not if you bolt them down properly. Lee ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 25 18:29:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC13@lif015.vtmerlin.com> Message-ID: <7057B9F2-7775-11D7-8D8D-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Friday, April 25, 2003, at 06:11 PM, Davison, Lee wrote: >> Full-height racks rock. > > Not if you bolt them down properly. He shoots! He SCORES!!! Doc From marvin at rain.org Fri Apr 25 18:32:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? References: <20030425192509.GB19615@subatomix.com> <3EA98E78.563ACF95@rain.org> <3EA9BE1A.74601EEF@gbronline.com> Message-ID: <3EA9C4F8.9C0780@rain.org> Hi Bill!!! I think there would be enough support from this listserver to substantially increase the site usage, and help us out at the same time. Personally, I won't have time until Monday to get listings ready, but I'm willing to give it a try. Listings are free, and I don't think the FVFs are out of line. This would be a wonderful place for those people who aren't looking for money as much as a chance to pass on some of this stuff to other collectors. bill claussen wrote: > > Howdy Marvin! LTNS > > I agree with you completely about SellYourItem.com, I know from past experience > that the support will look seriously at opening up cat's for the serious seller. > I have had several opened up by them for classic mauals, and electronics, etc.. > If those reading this thread would take a look at the site, it may just work out > for the list. > > Bill > > Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > I think this is a great idea, but I'm not sure we need to re-invent the > > wheel here. There are existing auction sites that will do what needs to > > be done. SYI, for example, has been mentioned here in the past (and I am > > taking a look at them again getting ready to list some stuff.) And if we > > approach such a site as a group of interested people, they are more > > likely to incorporate things we would like to see. > > > > >From my perspective, there are two issues. 1) wanting to get the most > > money out of something, and 2) wanting to get it to a collector/user ... > > they are not necessarily exclusive :). There is probably not much doubt > > that ebay is the place that will usually bring in the most money. But > > the pricing (and philosophy) there does drive some collectors away. > > > > Things I would like to see in a ClassicCmp auction site: > > > > links/descriptions of equipment that could be incorporated in listings > > a mechanism to allow trades of equipment > > a way of qualifying buyers and sellers before they list/bid/trade. > > > > And the list could go on, but this is a start. > > > > Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > > > > Forgive me if this has already been discussed today; I don't have time at > > > the moment to scan the entire thread. > > > > > > With this latest round of discussion about eBay, the thought crossed my mind > > > that maybe we need our own WWW auction site. It would only contain classic > > > computers and related items, and it could be designed in such a way that > > > would please a large number of list members and colleagues, including those > > > who avoid eBay. Could I hear some opinions on this, please? > > > > > > My WWW-related programming skills -- not my traditional forte -- have > > > seriously improved since the last time we discussed ideas for the CC site. > > > In fact, I've been doing it for money at my workplace for the last few > > > weeks. For several months now, I've been increasingly interested in > > > implementing some of the ideas I've had for ClassicCmp improvements, and if > > > people think it is a good idea, an auction subsite would make for a very > > > interesting project. Don't worry; there are no weblogs up my sleeve. :-) > > > > > > -- > > > Jeffrey Sharp From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Fri Apr 25 20:43:00 2003 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement Message-ID: <200304260141.h3Q1fCAK028192@king.mcs.drexel.edu> In cctalk digest, Vol 1 #569, Mail List wrote: > > Doc Shipley wrote: > > MS was charged with exerting undue influence - active coercion - on > > their customers, using that market share as leverage. > > No one ever had to buy Microsoft products. They always could have > gone with the Macintosh platform, or a Unix system. This is your personal opinion and I respect it. It does not, however, change the *fact* that Micro$oft was found guilty of breaking the anti-trust law. No logical argument can dispute that, since it is a fact; Micro$oft exhausted the appeal process, so unless the law is changed, or Micro$oft is pardoned, they remain guilty. Maybe the anti-trust laws are wrong, or unfair, however Micro$oft is now legally considered to have been a monopoly and to have leveraged their status to gain unfair advantage over their competitors. **vp From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Apr 25 21:18:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? In-Reply-To: <0BC181C4-7771-11D7-8D8D-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> References: <20030425192509.GB19615@subatomix.com> <0BC181C4-7771-11D7-8D8D-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20030426024538.GA2136@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Doc Shipley, from writings of Fri, Apr 25, 2003 at 05:55:44PM -0500: > I'd be more interested in a straight "for sale/wanted" list. It's > simple enough to post a best-offer item, with a cutoff date if so [...] > I think some kind of dedicated intra-ClassicCmp trading forum is a > really groovy idea. Me too. Years ago, what I didn't get from a hamfest or other local sources, to satisfy my computer collecting habit, I bought/traded from ads posted on Usenet newsgroups. It was rarely a case of "best offer;" the first person to reply to the ad usually got the goodies. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mbates at whoopis.com Fri Apr 25 21:38:01 2003 From: mbates at whoopis.com (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: maybe OT: Performa 6200CD needs network help Message-ID: Hi folks, I've got a friend with a Macintosh Performa 6200CD, and we can't get the network card to function. We've upgraded to OS 9.1 (though we may back it down to 8.5/8.6, it's really really slow now) and when that didn't work, I tried installing a driver package from Farallon (for Ethernet Comm Slot LC? I know this isn't an LC but it was the only thing I could find that was even close to sounding like the right thing). The end result of that was, in the TCP/IP control panel, there are options for "Ethernet slot 1" and "Alternate Ethernet" but neither one accepts an IP address (when we select DHCP, on a known-good DHCP network, it thinks for a few seconds and then says "no valid network address available" or something, and AppleTalk refuses to switch to that interface, and a manually-assigned, known-valid IP also fails). When I hit the Info button in that same control panel, it says Hardware Address Not Available. That seems bad. If it recognizes the card at all, it ought to see the "hardware" (MAC) address in any situation, right? There is a green LED lit up on the card itself, and the LED on the hub lights up too...we tried re-seating the card, no change...tried reinstalling OS 9.1...tried disabling the "Apple Built-in Ethernet" extension...no dice. Anyone have any ideas? I wrote down some cryptic info off the card itself, nothing obvious to me about the manufacturer or model ("SONIC-T"..."BD-059 Rev A"...?) Thanks in advance, -- MB From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Fri Apr 25 21:47:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: sharp pc-7000a manual scans In-Reply-To: <007901c30a37$85455b60$c455ddcb@earth2> References: <007901c30a37$85455b60$c455ddcb@earth2> Message-ID: <20030426024535.EB078341D5@www.fastmail.fm> Well, sorry I can't help you on this matter. But I do have one question though, I have a PC-7000 (no "a"), & I'd like to know the specs on yours to see what, if any difference between your and mine. On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:00:06 +1000, "pmulry" said: > i am seeking scans of any and all manuals for sharp pc-7000a portable > computer. > can any one help? > > > thanks paul > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Apr 25 21:49:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: maybe OT: Performa 6200CD needs network help Message-ID: <141.101769b5.2bdb4d1f@aol.com> In a message dated 4/25/2003 10:38:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mbates@whoopis.com writes: > > I've got a friend with a Macintosh Performa 6200CD, and we can't get > the network card to function. We've upgraded to OS 9.1 (though we may > back it down to 8.5/8.6, it's really really slow now) and when that > didn't work, I tried installing a driver package from Farallon (for > Ethernet Comm Slot LC? I know this isn't an LC but it was the only > One problem I had with an Asante NIC was that it would not work if connected to my 10/100 router. If I plugged it into a 10mb hub and then chained that to the router, it would work. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From rborsuk at colourfull.com Fri Apr 25 21:49:28 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: maybe OT: Performa 6200CD needs network help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5DC1579A-7791-11D7-8F0A-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Where is the card plugged into? Com slot or PDS slot? Rob On Friday, April 25, 2003, at 10:35 PM, Marion Bates wrote: > I tried installing a driver package from Farallon (for Ethernet Comm > Slot LC? I know this isn't an LC but it was the only thing I could > find that was even close to sounding like the right thing). The end > result of that was, in the Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Apr 25 21:55:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:16 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <200304260141.h3Q1fCAK028192@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030425222130.05ea8cb0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Vassilis, > This is your personal opinion and I respect it. It does not, however, > change the *fact* that Micro$oft was found guilty of breaking the > anti-trust law. No logical argument can dispute that, since it is a > fact; Micro$oft exhausted the appeal process, so unless the law is > changed, or Micro$oft is pardoned, they remain guilty. Maybe the > anti-trust laws are wrong, or unfair, however Micro$oft is now legally > considered to have been a monopoly and to have leveraged their status > to gain unfair advantage over their competitors. I'm not saying Microsoft didn't have a monopoly on the OS market. I myself was under a bit of a need to go with Microsoft OS products, because when I needed to last upgrade my system, I couldn't easily have afforded a Macintosh computer new enough to perform at a level I would have found satisfactory. I also couldn't easily have afforded the applications programs I would have had to purchase to change over to that platform. I didn't easily have the time available to become as familiar with the unix / linux OS to the degree that would have substituted for my familiarity with Microsoft products, and a whole set of apps for the unix platform either. But even though not comfortably done, those were still available options. But for that matter, it might have been that I didn't even need to even be using a computer at all. But if not, I would have had to totally restructure my life because it's current structure is based on the use of a computer, not only for recreation, but to make a living. Microsoft products work pretty well for me, though by the time I've added all the third party apps, it is certainly not flawless. I wouldn't want to be running a mission critical application, such as a reactor plant control system, on it. But thankfully there are other more stable OS's better suited to such a task. I was just trying to draw a similarity between Microsoft's position in the OS market to eBays position in the online auction market, as I put forth the question of whether or not eBay has a monopoly in the online auction market for the private individual. But here's a couple of links for all to enjoy ... As I was looking into what Marvin had told us about, I ran across this which was somewhat humorous ... WHAT IF AIRLINES WERE LIKE OPERATING SYSTEMS? http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/dosprompt And for all eBay users, here is the Auction Guild's link ... http://www.auctionguild.com/ Best Regards At 09:41 PM 4/25/03 -0400, you wrote: >In cctalk digest, Vol 1 #569, >Mail List wrote: > > > Doc Shipley wrote: > > > MS was charged with exerting undue influence - active coercion - on > > > their customers, using that market share as leverage. > > > > No one ever had to buy Microsoft products. They always could have > > gone with the Macintosh platform, or a Unix system. > >This is your personal opinion and I respect it. It does not, however, >change the *fact* that Micro$oft was found guilty of breaking the >anti-trust law. No logical argument can dispute that, since it is a >fact; Micro$oft exhausted the appeal process, so unless the law is >changed, or Micro$oft is pardoned, they remain guilty. Maybe the >anti-trust laws are wrong, or unfair, however Micro$oft is now legally >considered to have been a monopoly and to have leveraged their status >to gain unfair advantage over their competitors. > >**vp From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Apr 25 22:04:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <3EA814AF.54322E3B@rain.org> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424103800.00a23670@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030425230051.05cc3da0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Marvin, One thing I forgot to add ... Bite Me, eBay Best Regards At 09:45 AM 4/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >Mail List wrote: > > > > Hi Paxton, > > > > > Actually, as a seller, I think the eBay process sucks. > > Scan the DNF message board. A lot of other sellers share that same > sentiment. > >That feeling is, at least from what I have seen, not a universal one. >What seems to be far more reaching is the feeling that the ebay >management is incompetent from the standpoint of running auctions. They >are incredibly inept at making decisions that will help the sellers, and >incredibly arrogant at forcing their ideas on the ebay community. The >DNF Board (Discuss Newest Features Board for those who don't know) has a >number of people who are *very* familiar with the workings of ebay and >help out where they can. > > > > a much preferred model for me. It is where the sale is extended by a > > > minute or two when each bid comes in at the end of the auction. > > Yes, that one feature takes the teeth out of sniping. > >Sniping is a requirement unless the bidder doesn't mind being the bid >price going up. I made a suggestion to ebay years ago that sealed bids >should be allowed that would only become known after the auction had >ended. That would encourage bidders to make a realistic bid of what they >are willing to pay, and make the sniping issue irrelevant. Of course, >since that would benefit the sellers, it was ignored. From kittstr at access-4-free.com Fri Apr 25 22:20:00 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally Produced by Tim Shoppa) References: <3E9C8A7D.F060FFAE@compsys.to> Message-ID: <00f101c30ba2$707bb9b0$73cdd63f@amscomputer> I think I am interested in these CDs. I have a few questions though. I apologize in advance for any "newbie" questions. Can I use these CDs with E-11 or simh? Also how many different CDs are you creating? (If you order 3 are they all the same?) Also, can you paypal? (I would be willing to add a service charge if you can.) Thanks for any answers you can provide. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome H. Fine" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 6:41 PM Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally Produced by Tim Shoppa) > The last two times I posted this, another person contacted > me either for help or to request the CDs. This will be the > last time for about 6 months unless more people reply. > > In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 > that Tim Shoppa originally produced: > > I am in the middle of finishing a second (very small) batch > of CDs and could easily add a few additional copies. > > I will be making all copies of the CD images from: > ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ > http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ > http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ > > They are available at $ 5 / $ 9 / $ 12 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. From paulm064 at icqmail.com Fri Apr 25 22:46:00 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: sharp pc-7000a manual scans References: <007901c30a37$85455b60$c455ddcb@earth2> <20030426024535.EB078341D5@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <007e01c30ba8$04fce640$b654ddcb@earth2> I suspect the 'a' refers to its design for australian markets ( ie: 240 volts). Otherwise it appears visually (via 2 downloaded images only ) the same as the pc-7000 .The pc-7100 also appears similar appart from a harddisk in place of one floppy drives. I bought 2 of 3 available at my local dump recycling centre (no manuals,disks or cables).Telephone lead works for keyboard! One won't start at all ,the other wants to boot but either the floppy drive is faulty or the old ms-dos 3.2 boot disk i used is incompatable and although text is visable the screen is dark (screen swap made no dif). Would like to know if i can add harddisk also. This is why i'm searching for manuals etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Vohs" To: Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2003 12:45 PM Subject: Re: sharp pc-7000a manual scans > Well, sorry I can't help you on this matter. But I do have one question > though, I have a PC-7000 (no "a"), & I'd like to know the specs on yours > to see what, if any difference between your and mine. > > > On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:00:06 +1000, "pmulry" said: > > i am seeking scans of any and all manuals for sharp pc-7000a portable > > computer. > > can any one help? > > > > > > thanks paul > > > -- > David Vohs > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 25 22:46:40 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Strouse" at Apr 25, 2003 11:17:22 PM Message-ID: <200304260344.h3Q3iXGR016653@shell1.aracnet.com> > I think I am interested in these CDs. I have a few questions though. I > apologize in advance for any "newbie" questions. Can I use these CDs with > E-11 or simh? Also how many different CDs are you creating? (If you order 3 > are they all the same?) Also, can you paypal? (I would be willing to add a > service charge if you can.) Thanks for any answers you can provide. I'm not sure about E11, but with SIMH, you should be able to 'dd' them to a disk image, and access the RT-11 formated portion of the RT-11 CD from RT-11 and the ODS-1 formated RSX-11M/M+ CD from RSX-11M/M+. I got copies of these when Tim first put them together, and I was able to read both the RT-11 formated and ODS-1 formated one on my PDP-11/73 (under the appropriate OS's). Zane From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 26 00:48:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Announcing the Vintage Computer Festival Marketplace Message-ID: Ok, I guess it's time to begin the launch of the Vintage Computer Festival Marketplace. This has been in the works between Patrick Rigney and I for several weeks now, and it's just about ready for prime time. However, there is still some tweaking and debugging, and we'll want to enlist the help of 5-10 alpha/beta testers. But first, let me explain some of the features of the VCF Marketplace that, we believe, makes it a preferred venue to buy/sell/trade vintage computers. The site is based on the premise that we are all one community, and that we generally all want to trade old computers for hobby or business purposes. Some of us may want to make money. Others may just be interested in trading some of their good stuff for someone else's good stuff. Some may just want to give stuff away. Whatever the motive, our service caters to everyone. The basic services offered include: - Buy (search for what you want and buy/bid) - Sell (list your items) - Trade (ads can be posted as "for trade" or even "for sale or trade") - Request ("I'm looking for ") We also feature: - Discussion boards - A more sensible feedback/rating system We will in the future feature: - Inventory management (keep your own personal collection inventory complete with descriptions, serial numbers, photos, etc., and use the pre-entered data to sell/trade off items as you like) - Store fronts (use the inventory manager to input all your items for sale, then have people "enter" your store and shop around) The most important feature (from a buyer perspective) is searching. Our service has a search capability well beyond what eBay offers. I think everyone pretty much knows that putting a search term in eBay does not always guarantee you'll get what you want. In a lot of cases you have to wade through dozens, sometimes hundreds or even thousands of (irrelevant) results. We solve this in two ways. First, our service is targeted to the vintage computer enthusiast, so only items that are or are related to vintage computers will be listed. Second, we allow you to search by type, make, model and keyword. There are other search criteria that can be added to further refine your search (e.g. condition, keywords, etc.) The results will always be relevant to what you are looking for. And in case you're wondering, yes, there is a free-form entry in case the make or model is not in our database. When anything free-form is entered, we'll research it and add it to our permanent database. We also offer convenient and useful features such as the ability to save a search and e-mail notification. You can save a search and reference it whenever you want (so you don't have to keep entering in search terms over and over). You can also have the service notify you when something new comes up in your search criteria. You can even be notified the instant a new item gets listed that meets your criteria (but it costs...more on this later). Our navigation system is also laid out in a format that we feel is more organized and logical than other auction sites. The information is presented in a much more orderly and readable fashion. You will not experience the gawdiness of some eBay auctions. Clean, uniform listings is what you'll get. Listing an item is easy and more structured. If you're selling, you first decide how you want to sell it. Is it a sale or an auction? If it's a sale, you can put in the amount you want, or solicit a best offer by a certain date, or you can use the Max Eskin method (1.x * cost of shipping where x = some factor) if you're really just interested in giving it away. You can also specify a trade value, i.e. if you're listing a Sol-20, you can specify a dollar amount or "Trade for IMSAI 8080". If it's an auction, you decide what type of auction. You can have the (by now) traditional timed-auction (highest bid by a fixed time/date), timed-auction plus automatic extensions (to thwart sniping), sealed bid (basically the same thing as the best-offer-by-date sale), etc. For describing the item, we have a more powerful entry form. You have the choice of either listing an item in the traditional fashion (i.e. one description of a complete system), or you can list each item individually in a collective lot. So for instance, for a complete computer system, you first start with the general lot description, then you can individually enter the computer (you select its make and model, then enter pertinent information such as it's physical and operating condition) and then the display or terminal (same information) and then perhaps a peripheral of some sort (same info), and you can attach a photo to each. This helps you organize your listing and makes it easier for others to find your items. Of course, if you don't want to take the time to list the item in that manner (it really doesn't take much more time than a general overall description) you can, but it will be harder for people to find your items. Anyway, for buyers, you can browse the items that are listed in the database for sale/auction/trade/whatever by transaction type, or item type, or some combination thereof. For instance, say you want to peruse all S-100 adaptor boards. You can select "Adaptor Boards", "S-100" (or "ISA" or "PCI" or "Apple ][", etc.). You can then further specify you want to only see boards manufactured by "MITS", or "IMSAI", or "IMSAI" and "MITS", or any combination. Hit the submit button and you now have exactly what you are looking for. The listing shows all the items of the type you specified and at a glance shows you what type of listing it is (sale, trade, auction, freebie, etc.) Here's the best part: the site will be free to use for most people. As a buyer/browser, you of course pay nothing (unless you want to utilize the advance search features, discussed below). As a seller, once you establish an account, you can list up to 5 items every month free of charge. Once you go over the 5 item limit, you pay a flat fee of $20 for the month to list up to 15 more items. After that, you pay a flat fee of $50 a month to list an unlimited number of items. Also, you don't pay a sales commission. You just pay the flat listing fee. For buyers, you have access to all the advance search features. However, if you want the privelege of instant notification (you want to know the very moment someone lists an Altair for free) you'll have to pay a flat fee per month for that (a small fee per notification; yes you'll have to set-up an account to do this, and yes you'll have to, in effect, buy credits). Our service will be international in scope. We recognize the world-wide nature of computer collecting. In a next phase, we will implement multiple currencies and multiple languages. To start, however, everything will be in English and the Almighty Dollar. As mentioned, we are ready to begin some testing. We want to list the aid of 5-10 volunteer testers. You will be rewarded with free use of the paid features of the site for your help. If you're interested, please contact me directly at . If all goes well, we hope to open the site up in a beta mode in about 2-4 weeks. We'll then go into full live mode. We will be actively advertising the site to raise its profile among the community and make sure that it always has an abundance of listings so that it doesn't just become an also-ran. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From anheier at owt.com Sat Apr 26 10:00:01 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Misc. Stuff Available Message-ID: With all this talk of sniping and auctions, I have some more eclectic stuff available for best offer or trade. I prefer Paypal. item 1. I have a bunch (30?) of unused ACTEL PLCC FPGA ICs: A1010A-PLC86C A1020A-PLC86C A1280A-PQ160C I have the data book on these too. item 2. Hewlett-Packard, HP-15C owner handbook, excellent shape item 3. EV80C196CA evaluation board from the Dearborn Group Inc, with manual. Please contact me directly, Thanks for your time Norm From cb at mythtech.net Sat Apr 26 10:04:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: maybe OT: Performa 6200CD needs network help Message-ID: >I tried installing a driver package from Farallon (for >Ethernet Comm Slot LC? I know this isn't an LC but it was the only >thing I could find that was even close to sounding like the right >thing). >Anyone have any ideas? I wrote down some cryptic info off the card >itself, nothing obvious to me about the manufacturer or model >("SONIC-T"..."BD-059 Rev A"...?) You've got the wrong drivers. Sonic cards need their own driver, and don't work with the Apple drivers. Obviously, Farallon drivers aren't going to work either. try this download ftp://ftp.sonicwall.com/pub/software/Unsupported/Ethernet/Ethernet_7.8.imag e.sea.hqx Also, uninstall or disable the Farallon drivers. The Sonic will also install as "Alternate Ethernet" which will probably cause issues with the Farallon Drivers (you can disable the Apple Drivers too if you want since they won't be used either). -chris From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sat Apr 26 10:23:01 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: free pc stuff (Salford, UK) Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030426160716.039343d8@mail.mosthosts.com> Hi, am trying to do a clear-out, and have a hefty box containing the following available FOC to anybody who wants to collect it, from Salford, UK, else it goes in the bin... There is nothing particularly noteworthy here, btw, but it might interest someone. 10 x 486 motherboards, some with processors, at least one with RAM. AT form factor. 6 x Pentium 1 motherboards, AT form factor 1 x Socket 7 motherboard, ATX form factor. works sometimes.. 4 x ISA internal modems 1 x PCI internal modem 1 x ISA game port card. All are from stipped down PCs, so may or may not work (though apart from the ATX board, I'd be pretty confident of them.) Also have a mountain of Floppy and IDE (ata33) cables whomever can pick through. I'll also probably be adding to this pile as I work my way through the boxes. I know there are processors and RAM of similar vintage, not to mention SCSI cards, network and video, etc, I can add to it. I have cases and some (working but 'need adjustment') monitors too I can throw in. If anybody is interested, drop me an email on robert at irrelevant dot com or ring on 07801 809928. I don't want to get into mailing individual bits out I am afraid, this is mainly an effort to make some space so I can work on a new bedroom! :-) regards Rob. From mbates at whoopis.com Sat Apr 26 11:50:01 2003 From: mbates at whoopis.com (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: maybe OT: Performa 6200CD needs network help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey thank you!! We will try that. :) Thanks, -- MB On Saturday, April 26, 2003, at 11:02 AM, chris wrote: >> I tried installing a driver package from Farallon (for >> Ethernet Comm Slot LC? I know this isn't an LC but it was the only >> thing I could find that was even close to sounding like the right >> thing). > > >> Anyone have any ideas? I wrote down some cryptic info off the card >> itself, nothing obvious to me about the manufacturer or model >> ("SONIC-T"..."BD-059 Rev A"...?) > > You've got the wrong drivers. > > Sonic cards need their own driver, and don't work with the Apple > drivers. > Obviously, Farallon drivers aren't going to work either. > > try this download > > ftp://ftp.sonicwall.com/pub/software/Unsupported/Ethernet/ > Ethernet_7.8.imag > e.sea.hqx > > Also, uninstall or disable the Farallon drivers. The Sonic will also > install as "Alternate Ethernet" which will probably cause issues with > the > Farallon Drivers (you can disable the Apple Drivers too if you want > since > they won't be used either). > > -chris > From mark_k at totalise.co.uk Sat Apr 26 12:40:00 2003 From: mark_k at totalise.co.uk (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Amiga CATS developer CD 1.0, IBM Storyteller Live Message-ID: Hi, I posted a question about this to an Amiga newsgroup a while ago, but no-one there seemed to know much about it. I have a CD-ROM produced by Commodore-Amiga Inc. labelled CATS Developer CD V1.0 (CATSCD10). This was probably distributed to registered Amiga developers circa 1991. The disc doesn't contain an ISO 9660 filesystem. Examining the raw data seems to suggest there might be a presentation authored with the IBM StoryTeller Live! package (StoryTeller Live! was a multimedia authoring package for DOS PCs, probably similar to Macromedia Director). I have a copy of the ST.EXE player program on an old magazine cover CD. One possibility might be that my CD was mis-labelled at the replicator, but that's unlikely. If anyone is curious enough to investigate further, I have uploaded a picture of the CD and image files of its contents to http://www.a32768.fsnet.co.uk/CATS_CD_V1.0/ (I split the image file into 4MB chunks and compressed each using gzip. To recreate the file decompress all .gz files, then join them in order.) Regards, -- Mark From mark_k at totalise.co.uk Sat Apr 26 12:41:36 2003 From: mark_k at totalise.co.uk (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab Message-ID: Hi, On 21 April 2003 Stuart Johnson wrote: >Yes, I managed to get a manual, by watching auctions on eBay. In fact, I >bought another HP 5036A plus manual and let the seller keep the hardware to >save shipping costs from England to the US. The manual is softcover and >would not be easy to copy without cutting the spine off, which would ruin >its value. Coincidentally enough, I bought a copy of the 5036A service manual (HP part no. 05036-90001) a few weeks ago. Is that very different from the user manual? It says the microfiche part no. is 05036-90002. Maybe it's still available on microfiche from HP? Okay, that's doubtful... Along with that was a book titled "SC-MPUTER (2)" from Elektor publishers dated 1980. Has anyone come across an SC-MPUTER? It may only have been sold in kit form. Regards, -- Mark From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Apr 26 13:10:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab References: Message-ID: <02ed01c30c1e$c96f90b0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark" To: Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2003 1:38 PM Subject: Re: HP 5036A microprocessor lab > Hi, > > On 21 April 2003 Stuart Johnson wrote: > Coincidentally enough, I bought a copy of the 5036A service manual (HP part > no. 05036-90001) a few weeks ago. Is that very different from the user > manual? It says the microfiche part no. is 05036-90002. Maybe it's still > available on microfiche from HP? Okay, that's doubtful... > > Along with that was a book titled "SC-MPUTER (2)" from Elektor publishers > dated 1980. Has anyone come across an SC-MPUTER? It may only have been sold > in kit form. > > > Regards, > -- Mark > Mark, Yes, the service manual is different from the book "Practical Microprocessors". Practical Microprocessors is a 450+ page book that thoroughly explains the HP 5036A and has many lab experiments for the user or student to perform. It also contains the assembly language listings of the ROM on the 5036A and schematics. I have a xerographic copy of the "Service Manual" and there IS some overlap between it and "Practical Microprocessors", but the Service Manual is not directed towards teaching microprocessor theory and usage. The copy of "Practical Microprocessors" that I have is soft bound and could not easily be copied without having the binding cut off, ruining the book. I would rate the book "Practical Microprocessors" together with an HP 5036A as a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. I also have the Heath ET-3400A, an ETA-3400 (memory & I/O) expansion, and the Heath manuals. I would rate that as perhaps a 6 or 7 on the same scale. By the way, where DID you find a the Service Manual? Would they perhaps have another? Stuart Johnson From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Apr 26 13:15:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Amiga CATS developer CD 1.0, IBM Storyteller Live In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030426181020.24488.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Mark writes: > Hi, > > I posted a question about this to an Amiga newsgroup a while ago, but no-one > there seemed to know much about it. > > I have a CD-ROM produced by Commodore-Amiga Inc. labelled CATS Developer CD > V1.0 (CATSCD10). This was probably distributed to registered Amiga > developers circa 1991. > > The disc doesn't contain an ISO 9660 filesystem. Examining the raw data > seems to suggest there might be a presentation authored with the IBM > StoryTeller Live! package (StoryTeller Live! was a multimedia authoring > package for DOS PCs, probably similar to Macromedia Director). I have a copy > of the ST.EXE player program on an old magazine cover CD. > I think this is a developers package for CD32 gaming. The CD32 was a stillborn version of the A1200, intended to compete with Nintendo, etc. I'll bet it autoboots on a CD32 console, if you can find one. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 26 13:59:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab In-Reply-To: from "Mark" at Apr 26, 3 06:38:04 pm Message-ID: > Along with that was a book titled "SC-MPUTER (2)" from Elektor publishers > dated 1980. Has anyone come across an SC-MPUTER? It may only have been sold > in kit form. I doubt it even existed as an official kit. Elektor is a European electronics magazine (Dutch, originally, I think). The SC-MPUTER would be a project from that publication. Often large projects like the computers (and there were many over the years) would have the articles reprinted in book form. Elektor never sold kits. They did sell etched PCBs and programed EPROMs (etc). You had to get the rest of the components yourself. Maybe some component shops would have made up kits, though. -tony From rborsuk at colourfull.com Sat Apr 26 17:38:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: More stuff from the closet Message-ID: <7B1FB8E5-7837-11D7-84D9-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Hi All, Isn't cleaning fun? I've dug up the following stuff. Let me know off list if your interested. Cost plus actual shipping. I'm asking for paypal this time. Unless your in Michigan you can always pick up. Here's what I dug up this time. Books at $2.00 each How to Build your own working robot pet - Dacosta -1979 (excellent - uses 8085) 178 IC Designs & Applications - Mendelson - 1984 Handbook of simplified solid-state circuit design - Lenk - 1971 Fiberoptics - Kuecken - Tab books - 1980 ================================ Manuals at $1.00 each or all for $4.00 (for the Apple II - I don't even own one) Synergizer CP/M User's manual Master Diagnostics + plus from Nikrom Bag of Tricks by Don worth and Peter Lechner from Quality Software (probably close to 100 pages) RanaSystems Elite Controller Manual (and for the Atari ST) ICD AdSCSI ST Series Manual ================================ A pair of Mitsubishi Luma 1000 video phones - 1986 (not vintage computer but still cool) $50 for the set Okay, I'm still cleaning. I'm sorry to have to say this but if you have written me before and have not followed through on a previous transaction I'm going to have to ignore your email. I understand that things come up but when you can't take 2 minutes to drop me an email and let me know what's going on then..... Okay, enough of that. How about something I'm looking for. Does anyone have an Intersil 6100 chip that they might be willing to part with? Let me know. Thanks Rob From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Apr 26 17:55:00 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: More stuff from the closet In-Reply-To: <7B1FB8E5-7837-11D7-84D9-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <200304262253.RAA08401@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Maybe, if the price is right. Got anything good to trade -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu > > How about something I'm looking for. Does anyone have an Intersil 6100 > chip that they might be willing to part with? > > Let me know. > Thanks > Rob From kth at srv.net Sat Apr 26 18:08:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally References: <200304260344.h3Q3iXGR016653@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3EAB18DD.7050202@srv.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>I think I am interested in these CDs. I have a few questions though. I >>apologize in advance for any "newbie" questions. Can I use these CDs with >>E-11 or simh? Also how many different CDs are you creating? (If you order 3 >>are they all the same?) Also, can you paypal? (I would be willing to add a >>service charge if you can.) Thanks for any answers you can provide. >> >> > >I'm not sure about E11, but with SIMH, you should be able to 'dd' them to a >disk image, and access the RT-11 formated portion of the RT-11 CD from RT-11 >and the ODS-1 formated RSX-11M/M+ CD from RSX-11M/M+. > >I got copies of these when Tim first put them together, and I was able to >read both the RT-11 formated and ODS-1 formated one on my PDP-11/73 (under >the appropriate OS's). > If you are using simh under Linux, you can just point to "/dev/cdrom" and use them directly. No copying necessary. Under Windows, this doesn't work, and you must make the image file. Some CD burner software is able to do this while under windows (like some versions of Nero). From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sat Apr 26 19:43:00 2003 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (VaxCat) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Depressing realization... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So I pick up this spiffy complete II gs system the other night. While testing it, I pull out some of my old Apple disks and find zlink. I hook up my old Everex 2400 modem, run zlink, type in ATDT and... (pause) There's nothing left to call. Anthony Clifton From rborsuk at colourfull.com Sat Apr 26 19:51:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Yet some more Message-ID: <177FE558-784A-11D7-84D9-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Hi All, Give me a couple of Mocha-chino's and I get all crazy. Okay here's another group of stuff. Books at $2.00 each Mastering Machine Code on your ZX Spectrum - Baker - 1983 MS-DOS/GW Basic reference manual for the Tandy 3000 Part #25-4103 Apple Numerics Manual - 1988 Assorted stuff priced accordingly. PC Sentry - Diagnostic ISA card and manual from TriniTech Inc. $5.00 Beagle Bros Peeks, Pokes and Pointers Poster for Apple II $1.00 Microsoft Developer Network Subscription from 1996 & some 1997 (30+ CD's NT workstation, NT server, Operating systems, developer info. I don't feel like listing all that's in it)(Naturally licensing is your responsibility) $15.00 PCI bus isolation and test card from AZ-COM (allows you to isolate a PCI card under test from the system) $5.00 Same as always. Just let me know what you want. Thanks Rob Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From scannall at mac.com Sat Apr 26 20:26:01 2003 From: scannall at mac.com (Dan Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Depressing realization... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > So I pick up this spiffy complete II gs system the other night. > > While testing it, I pull out some of my old Apple disks and find > zlink. > > I hook up my old Everex 2400 modem, run zlink, type in ATDT and... > > (pause) > > There's nothing left to call. > > > Anthony Clifton Maybe some internet software for the ][GS? Look at http://www.geeks.org/~taubert/gstcp/ Dan Smith From allain at panix.com Sat Apr 26 20:43:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Depressing realization... References: Message-ID: <01a101c30c5e$0bd56760$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Thanks for the insight. Anywhere in the world as a local call (Internet) is pretty tough competition. I do see that there are multitudinous hits on 'Telephone Line Simulator' on Yahoo. You could connect two machines in your home without a real phonecall. John A. From scannall at mac.com Sat Apr 26 21:13:00 2003 From: scannall at mac.com (Dan Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Depressing realization... In-Reply-To: <01a101c30c5e$0bd56760$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > Thanks for the insight. Anywhere in the world as a local > call (Internet) is pretty tough competition. > > I do see that there are multitudinous hits on 'Telephone Line > Simulator' on Yahoo. You could connect two machines in your > home without a real phonecall. > > John A. Years and years ago now I ran a BBS system on an Apple ][+. 4 floppy drives, 48k of ram and a blazing 300 baud modem. Later the board moved to a ][e with 128k ram, 4 floppies and a 10 meg HD. Got quite a deal on the HD, only $1500.00. I was sure no one person could possibly fill a drive that big with around the house kinda stuff. Dan Smith From rborsuk at colourfull.com Sat Apr 26 21:25:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Video Phones Message-ID: <401852B8-7857-11D7-84D9-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Hi, I've had a couple of request for pictures of the video phones. I snapped a quick one. Take a look at: http://idisk.mac.com/colourfull_creations/Public/ads/video.jpg They work over a standard phone line. The have a built in address book that you program on the screen. Pretty cool for 1986. Oh, the exact model # is VM-100 Rob Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From kittstr at access-4-free.com Sat Apr 26 21:47:01 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally References: <200304260344.h3Q3iXGR016653@shell1.aracnet.com> <3EAB18DD.7050202@srv.net> Message-ID: <007501c30c67$1708e6d0$63cbd63f@amscomputer> Sorry, this was meant to be off list. I WILL get the hang of these reply-to's. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Strouse" To: Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 11:17 PM Subject: Re: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally Produced by Tim Shoppa) > I think I am interested in these CDs. I have a few questions though. I > apologize in advance for any "newbie" questions. Can I use these CDs with > E-11 or simh? Also how many different CDs are you creating? (If you order 3 > are they all the same?) Also, can you paypal? (I would be willing to add a > service charge if you can.) Thanks for any answers you can provide. > > Andrew Strouse > ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerome H. Fine" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 6:41 PM > Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally Produced by > Tim Shoppa) > > > > The last two times I posted this, another person contacted > > me either for help or to request the CDs. This will be the > > last time for about 6 months unless more people reply. > > > > In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 > > that Tim Shoppa originally produced: > > > > I am in the middle of finishing a second (very small) batch > > of CDs and could easily add a few additional copies. > > > > I will be making all copies of the CD images from: > > ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ > > http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ > > http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ > > > > They are available at $ 5 / $ 9 / $ 12 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. From mike at shawnuff.net Sat Apr 26 22:07:01 2003 From: mike at shawnuff.net (Mike Shaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Depressing realization... Message-ID: <200304270305.h3R35m5A029829@mailserver1.hushmail.com> For anyone interested I have a few telephone line simulators for sale or trade.... -Mike >I do see that there are multitudinous hits on 'Telephone Line >Simulator' on Yahoo. You could connect two machines in your >home without a real phonecall. > >John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Apr 26 23:14:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally In-Reply-To: <3EAB18DD.7050202@srv.net> References: <200304260344.h3Q3iXGR016653@shell1.aracnet.com> <3EAB18DD.7050202@srv.net> Message-ID: >If you are using simh under Linux, you can just point to >"/dev/cdrom" and use them directly. No copying necessary. >Under Windows, this doesn't work, and you must make the >image file. Some CD burner software is able to do this >while under windows (like some versions of Nero). That's new! I'd tried this about a year ago and it wouldn't work. Of course it could have been due to my hardware or OS. I'll have to give this a try again. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Apr 26 23:26:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (OriginallyProduced by Tim Shoppa) References: <3E9C8A7D.F060FFAE@compsys.to> <00f101c30ba2$707bb9b0$73cdd63f@amscomputer> Message-ID: <3EAB5B7C.90612FFF@compsys.to> >Andrew Strouse wrote: > I think I am interested in these CDs. I have a few questions though. I > apologize in advance for any "newbie" questions. Can I use these CDs with > E-11 or simh? Also how many different CDs are you creating? (If you order 3 > are they all the same?) Also, can you paypal? (I would be willing to add a > service charge if you can.) Thanks for any answers you can provide. > Andrew Strouse > ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) Jerome Fine replies: There are 3 CDs: (a) RT-11 with BOTH an ISO9660 and an RT-11 file structures The ISO9660 portion 21,223 files / 969 directories / 403,733,960 bytes The CD full image is 671,088,640 bytes which is 65,536 * 20 blocks or exactly 20 RT-11 partitions with the first portion being files under the ISO9660 files structure and the last 7 RT-11 partitions holding files with each of those 7 partitions having the necessary RT-11 file structure The files under the ISO9660 file structure can be accessed via any operating system which can. Both E11 and SIMH are usefully able to "MOUNT/ATTACH" all of the individual files that have an internal RT-11 file structure On a PC using Windows 98 SE, I have tested the E11 command MOUNT DU0: CDROMa:/RONLY where "a" is the drive letter which allows all 7 non-zero RT-11 partitions to be used directly under RT-11 (as are all the other non-zero RT-11 partitions fully available), BUT E11 can NOT see for RT-11 partition zero the first 64 blocks (of 512 bytes each or 16 CD sectors of 2048 bytes each - which is NOT either a problem or relevant since under the RT-11, they are all zero as there is NO RT-11 directory structure for RT-11 partition zero) In addition, the "Full" (Commercial) version of E11 allows the command MOUNT DU0: SCSIn:/RONLY were "n" is the SCSI ID which also allows all 7 non-zero RT-11 partitions to be used directly under RT-11 AND if a user has a SCSI CDROM drive on a real PDP-11 which SUPPORTS 512 byte access, then a real PDP-11 running RT-11 can also directly use those same 7 non-zero RT-11 partitions along with all of the other 13 partitions which is not relevant since none of them have an RT-11 file structure (b) RSX-11 with an ISO9660 file structure The ISO9660 file structure 55,093 files / 2040 directories / 528,559,136 bytes The CD full image is 610,842,624 bytes The files under the ISO9660 file structure can be accessed via any operating system which can. Both E11 and SIMH are usefully able to "MOUNT/ATTACH" all of the individual files that have an internal RSX-11 file structure (c) RSX-11 with an RSX-11 file structure or so I have been told The CD full image is 665,600,512 bytes I have never used this CD, but I imagine that SIMH can't at all and the hobby (demo) version of E11 would have difficulty using this CD under Windows 98 SE because the first 64 blocks are NOT available BUT, under the "Full" (Commercial) version of E11 the command: MOUNT DU0: SCSIn:/RONLY where "n" is the SCSI ID can use this CD with the RSX-11 file structure AND if a user has a SCSI CDROM drive on a real PDP-11 which SUPPORTS 512 byte access, then a real PDP-11 running RSX-11 can also directly use this CD. I have only used the RT-11 CD. >Zane H. Healy also wrote: >I'm not sure about E11, but with SIMH, you should be able to 'dd' them to a >disk image, and access the RT-11 formatted portion of the RT-11 CD from RT-11 >and the ODS-1 formatted RSX-11M/M+ CD from RSX-11M/M+. I am not sure how I would "dd" them, but I guess I could also provide the *.bz2 files on a separate CD as well - they would easily all fit on one CD. Then, as required, these compressed versions can be expanded using bzip2.exe and checked with MD5.exe for the MD5 value. Then, while SIMH can open these very large files, the hobby (demo) version of E11 can NOT do so. However, the "Full" (Commercial) version of E11 is able to do so. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Apr 27 02:47:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Wanted: PC parts (was: Re: free pc stuff (Salford, UK)) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030426160716.039343d8@mail.mosthosts.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030426160716.039343d8@mail.mosthosts.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Apr 2003, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > Hi, am trying to do a clear-out, and have a hefty box containing the > following available FOC to anybody who wants to collect it, from > Salford, UK, else it goes in the bin... There is nothing particularly > noteworthy here, btw, but it might interest someone. Darn, on the wrong side of the pond :/ > 10 x 486 motherboards, some with processors, at least one with RAM. AT > form factor. > 6 x Pentium 1 motherboards, AT form factor > 1 x Socket 7 motherboard, ATX form factor. works sometimes.. I've been talking about this off-list for awhile now, but I might as well mention something here too. I've been playing with the idea of building a Mosix or similar distributed CPU project from old (obsolete? whats that? :) 386/486/Pentium boards. I drew up a CAD design for a rack that can hold 12 such boards on edge. The design uses right angle ISA adapters to allow NICs to be plugged into the motherboards. > I know there are processors and RAM of similar vintage, not to mention > SCSI cards, network and video, etc, I can add to it. ------- Recycled text from an older email: (Maybe I should put up a better list on web page?) I am looking for certain bits of odd, or in some cases very common PC hardware if you happen to come across much in the way of used PC stuff. I use such boards for driver development/testing for Linux, BSD, etc for older hardware when time permits. Since I don't make money from working with free drivers, I can't afford to spend much on the hardware, but I am happy to cover shipping costs. [Of course, there is a limit to what I can afford, so if lots of people contact me, I may have to ask about putting some things on hold...] The kinds of boards I'm always looking for are: S3 chipset based video boards, ISA, EISA, VLB, PCI Other older ISA, EISA, VLB, PCI video boards (*except* most 'trident' chipset) Promise Technology caching controllers, ISA, EISA, VLB, etc Promise Technology (other boards) BusTek, BusLogic, Mylex [all the same company] SCSI controllers Adaptec SCSI controllers (practically any type) Madge Token Ring cards Token Ring cards (3Com, IBM, etc) SMC Arcnet and Ethernet cards (some originally made by Western Digital) The more "unusual" cards are also often helpful, including boards with EISA or MCA interfaces. Some old motherboards and such are also quite helpful, such as old multi-processor types. In addition to the kind of hardware above that I can use for driver development and testing, 3Com Etherlink III cards of most any type are always helpful. I tend to give lots of those away to local schools and such, as they are very reliable and were (are?) extremely popular cards. ------- -Toth From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sun Apr 27 06:36:00 2003 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Depressing realization... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EABC04A.7090905@dragonsweb.org> VaxCat wrote: > So I pick up this spiffy complete II gs system the other night. > > While testing it, I pull out some of my old Apple disks and find > zlink. > > I hook up my old Everex 2400 modem, run zlink, type in ATDT and... > > (pause) > > There's nothing left to call. > > > Anthony Clifton > > Try 1-912-653-5138. DragonsWeb Labs BBS (just started) MBSE 0.37.3 (Linux-i386) General Science, Engineering, and Technology BBS, with a subemphasis on classic computers and computing, including BBS'ing. TI 99=4/A and Myarc 9640 support, others planned. Fido 1:123/755 The USBBS List has more dialable boards, of course. They're out there, just harder to find now. Telnet-only BBSes are growing by leaps and bound right now, but I felt I needed a dialup for people with old systems to use. I have a working IIe, a IIc, and a Mac SE here, among all the other stuff, including a mini (TI DS990/10). Not a lot of Apple software, but at some point, I'm going to try to link as many of the old systems as I can into the BBS and provide some kind of terminal interface to them. So your despondence is maybe a little premature. :-) later, jbdigriz From runtime at wzrd.com Sun Apr 27 08:48:01 2003 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: DSD 880 Q Bus RL02 emulator Message-ID: I have a Data Systems Design DSD 880 Q-Bus drive. It dates from 1982 or 1983, and is a RL02 emulator (as I remember); there's a big old 8" drive (Shugart, I think) in a 19" wide rack mount. Also, there's a Q-Bus interface. The last time I used it was maybe 1985, but more likely 1984, and it worked. It could be set to look like an RL02 with 5 mb but also you could set it up to give something like 7 or 8 mb, as I remember. A quick look in the old documentation box doesn't show anything there for it. I have no Q-Bus equipment on which to test it; I wouldn't bet on its working at the moment, but it might. Storage conditions have been, let's say, casual. I'd be happy to let it go for ACTUAL SHIPPING COST. It's located in Buffalo, NY. Don Mitchell From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Apr 27 10:17:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030427104751.459777dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:38 PM 4/26/03 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, > >On 21 April 2003 Stuart Johnson wrote: >>Yes, I managed to get a manual, by watching auctions on eBay. In fact, I >>bought another HP 5036A plus manual and let the seller keep the hardware to >>save shipping costs from England to the US. The manual is softcover and >>would not be easy to copy without cutting the spine off, which would ruin >>its value. > >Coincidentally enough, I bought a copy of the 5036A service manual (HP part >no. 05036-90001) a few weeks ago. Is that very different from the user >manual? Yes VERY different. Joe It says the microfiche part no. is 05036-90002. Maybe it's still >available on microfiche from HP? Okay, that's doubtful... > >Along with that was a book titled "SC-MPUTER (2)" from Elektor publishers >dated 1980. Has anyone come across an SC-MPUTER? It may only have been sold >in kit form. > > >Regards, >-- Mark From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Apr 27 10:20:05 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab In-Reply-To: <02ed01c30c1e$c96f90b0$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030427110824.0f179f4a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've kept quite for a while about the 5036s since I didn't want to be repeatedly pestered for copies of docs and other items but since there seems to be some real interest in the 5036s I'm going to reply just this once. I used to do a lot of work with the 5036s and I owned about 8 of them at one time. (FWIW Mike H. ended up with most of them and he's been selling them on E-bay). I think I still have loose leaf copies of ALL of the 5036 manuals, including the SM, Practical Microprocessors and User's (Owner's?) manual. I'll *loan* them anyone that is willing to scan them and post them on a website somewhere. I also still have a copy of the webpage that I used to have for the 5036. I intended to post it and a lot of other HP related web pages on Jay's wesite but I ran into too many problems with his site (it wouldn't work with any of the FTP programs that I had, the directories couldn't be found, the passwords didn't work, etc) so none of them ever got posted. At 01:08 PM 4/26/03 -0500, you wrote: > >I would rate the book "Practical Microprocessors" together with an HP 5036A >as a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. I also have the Heath ET-3400A, an ETA-3400 >(memory & I/O) expansion, and the Heath manuals. I would rate that as >perhaps a 6 or 7 on the same scale. I used to rate the Heathkit trainers at 8 or 9 on a scale of ten but after using the HP 5036 I wouldn't rate the HK higher than about a 4! The HP beats it hands down in every area. It's better built, it's better laid out, it's easier to expand, the docs are MUCH better, the training course is also much better and includes many areas that HK never talked about and finally it has a real service manual. Tip: the push button locks that hold the 5036 circuit board in place are frequently broken. I found that a lot of the PS-2s use similar locks. They can be removed from junk PS-2s and used to fix the 5036. If you have problems figuring out how to R&R the locks let me know and I'll explain how to in detail. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Apr 27 10:21:51 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: More stuff from the closet In-Reply-To: <7B1FB8E5-7837-11D7-84D9-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030427111430.3d27d6f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Speaking of cleaning out the closets. I was helping clean out some stuff from the estate of a deceased writer of computer and electronics books and found a work book for a CPM course that Dictaphone taught. I didn't know that Dictaphone even made CPM computers. This is a thin book and it's pretty elementary but it might be of interst to someone that has a Dictaphone machine or is a CPM collector. It's up for grabs for $1 (to cover the cost of an envelope) plus postage if anyone wants it. Joe From ernestls at attbi.com Sun Apr 27 10:24:01 2003 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? In-Reply-To: <00a901c30b6d$4b459ce0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > I had brought a similar request to Jeff Sharp via a telephone call a while > back for implementation. I thought it was a "done deal". My plan > was to not > create an "auction site" persay, because that is a rather huge task, and > because - well, there IS ebay. So instead, I had asked him to create an > "available" site. It would only be open to list members (password > protected). On the site they could list all their spare inventory, and/or > equipment they were willing to trade. That way, people could perhaps find > things they were looking for more easily from other listmembers, and work > their own deals (cash or trade), without going through ebay. I like the this idea also rather than a formal sort of auction site. I have many items that I aren't worth much money but I know that someone, sometime will want them, and if there is a site that that I can post these items to for others to view at their leisure, then I can just post them and forget about it. Later, if someone wants them, they can contact me about it even if it's months later because there aren't any deadlines or ending dates. You post the items, and they stay there until you remove them (within reason, of course.) This kind of site might not be a big money maker but it would be very useful to the community. E. From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Apr 27 11:11:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab References: <3.0.6.16.20030427110824.0f179f4a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002001c30cd7$593d08e0$6900a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Joe wrote: >I intended to post it and a lot of other HP related web pages on Jay's wesite but I ran into too many problems with his site (it wouldn't work with any of the FTP programs that I had, the directories couldn't be found, the passwords didn't work, etc) so none of them ever got posted. Huh? I'd like more info on this Joe. 1) Our servers never have supported FTP, and never did. You have to use sFTP instead. There are plenty of shareware programs that do sFTP just fine. We have about 23 webservers, all are identical. Most of those webservers host around 100-175 business sites, and we haven't had any problems with sFTP, nor complaints from customers. We don't allow FTP, and require sFTP, for security reasons. If our customers are transmitting their passwords in cleartext (FTP), then their account can be used to gain access to the systems. 2) Directories couldn't be found and passwords didn't work? Hummm Please drop me a line and give me the particulars, and we'll get to the bottom of it I can assure you! Hosting sites isn't just something I do for a hobby - It's my profession. If there is something that you can't get working, please let me know. Jay West From dogas at bellsouth.net Sun Apr 27 11:15:02 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab References: <3.0.6.16.20030427110824.0f179f4a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <007901c30cd6$2912d2e0$16db3fd0@DOMAIN> From: Joe > > I used to do a lot of work with the 5036s and I owned about 8 of them at one time. (FWIW Mike H. ended up with most of them and he's been selling them on E-bay). Tried selling them on ebay that is... I reserved it at $90 and it didn't reach there twice. I paid a high price for my first 5036a in my early day on ebay but that was because I had found 'Practical Microprocessors' a few years earlier and grew tired of opening suitcases at fleas & thrifts. Then I bought 5 more of the trainers later on ebay. I think I first traded two to Joe for a DEC WT/78, then another two trainers for a PDP 11/05. Then when Joe was throwing stuff out, I got a few of the trainers back too. ;) So you should still have some hiding around Joe. I think I still have loose leaf copies of ALL of the 5036 manuals, including the SM, Practical Microprocessors and User's (Owner's?) manual. I'll *loan* them anyone that is willing to scan them and post them on a website somewhere. I also still have a copy of the webpage that I used to have for the 5036. I intended to post it and a lot of other HP related web pages on Jay's wesite but I ran into too many problems with his site (it wouldn't work with any of the FTP programs that I had, the directories couldn't be found, the passwords didn't work, etc) so none of them ever got posted. > >I would rate the book "Practical Microprocessors" together with an HP 5036A > >as a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. I also have the Heath ET-3400A, an ETA-3400 > >(memory & I/O) expansion, sheesh! There's a breadboard there for god's sake... >> and the Heath manuals. I would rate that as > >perhaps a 6 or 7 on the same scale. > No way. "Individual Learning Program in Microprocessors" is everybit as good as PM. PM concentrates more on troubleshooting and Heath presents more on interfacing... > I used to rate the Heathkit trainers at 8 or 9 on a scale of ten but after using the HP 5036 I wouldn't rate the HK higher than about a 4! The HP beats it hands down in every area. It's better built, it's better laid out, it's easier to expand, the docs are MUCH better, the training course is also much better and includes many areas that HK never talked about and finally it has a real service manual. > > Tip: the push button locks that hold the 5036 circuit board in place are frequently broken. I found that a lot of the PS-2s use similar locks. They can be removed from junk PS-2s and used to fix the 5036. If you have problems figuring out how to R&R the locks let me know and I'll explain how to in detail. > > > Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Apr 27 11:55:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab In-Reply-To: <007901c30cd6$2912d2e0$16db3fd0@DOMAIN> References: <3.0.6.16.20030427110824.0f179f4a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030427125418.46df19d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:00 PM 4/27/03 -0400, Mike wrote: > >Tried selling them on ebay that is... I reserved it at $90 and it didn't >reach there twice. I paid a high price for my first 5036a in my early day >on ebay but that was because I had found 'Practical Microprocessors' a few >years earlier and grew tired of opening suitcases at fleas & thrifts. Then >I bought 5 more of the trainers later on ebay. I think I first traded two >to Joe for a DEC WT/78, then another two trainers for a PDP 11/05. Then >when Joe was throwing stuff out, I got a few of the trainers back too. ;) >So you should still have some hiding around Joe. I do have a couple left but I'm not parting with them :-) That's why I decided to put in a plug for your auctions. You're right, they're worth a lot more than $90! I sold a couple on E-bay for ~$130 and if you're selling the ones that you got from me they've all been cleaned, tested and repaired including replacing the missing power cords with original HP cords, replacing all the missing straps so that they'll stand up like an A-frame, replaced the broken snap fasteners, etc. And they included all the manuals (or at least NEW copies of them). > > >I think I still have loose leaf copies of ALL of the 5036 manuals, including >the SM, Practical Microprocessors and User's (Owner's?) manual. I'll *loan* >them anyone that is willing to scan them and post them on a website >somewhere. I also still have a copy of the webpage that I used to have for >the 5036. I intended to post it and a lot of other HP related web pages on >Jay's wesite but I ran into too many problems with his site (it wouldn't >work with any of the FTP programs that I had, the directories couldn't be >found, the passwords didn't work, etc) so none of them ever got posted. > >> >I would rate the book "Practical Microprocessors" together with an HP >5036A >> >as a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. I also have the Heath ET-3400A, an >ETA-3400 >> >(memory & I/O) expansion, > >sheesh! There's a breadboard there for god's sake... Yeap, and it's a lot easier to work with and more reliable than the cheap sockets and jumper wires that HK uses. If I want to use the HK style breadboard, I can jumpered from a plug over to a full size breadboard. > > >>> and the Heath manuals. I would rate that as >> >perhaps a 6 or 7 on the same scale. >> > >No way. "Individual Learning Program in Microprocessors" is everybit as >good as PM. PM concentrates more on troubleshooting and Heath presents more >on interfacing... sheesh, Every other microprocessor book that I pick up has interfacing information. The PM includes stuff like how to use Logic Analyzers, logic probes, logic pulsers, current tracers, signature analyis that's seldom covered elsewhere. I guess which one is best depends on wheather you want to design computers or fix them! Joe From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 27 14:22:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Nationwide LD Calling (Was: Depressing realization...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030427192653.GA31084@subatomix.com> On Saturday, April 26, 2003, VaxCat wrote: > I hook up my old Everex 2400 modem, run zlink, type in ATDT and... > > (pause) > > There's nothing left to call. An interesting development I'm seeing in telephone service (at least, here in Oklahoma) is the land line telcos offering unlimited nationwide long distance calling for a flat monthly fee. I presume this is an attempt to compete with cell phone companies, with whom such service is the norm. A side effect of the service, if indeed it is being offered in most areas of the country, might be a renaissance of the dialup BBS in the USA. A lack of LD charges is also a lack of economic boundaries between BBS communities, enabling a level of interconnection we have seen only on the Internet thus far. The service may also enable other enthusiast dialup activity, including UUCP networking. I'm very tempted to sign on to this service. Back in my BBS days, I lived in a rural town of about 1200 people that was not a member of any LATA. Any call out of the town's 867 prefix was a LD call. There were, of course, no BBSes reachable without a LD call, so BBSing was a very rare pleasure. It would be quite cool to be able to make up for all that lost experience! As a neat note, all the numbers in that town were in the 4000-5999 range. There was an 867-5309, which matches the name of a song that was popular some years ago. Folklore says that it used to be the number of the grade school cafeteria, but that may be a myth. Families of two of my friends from high school, however, did take a turn each of having that number. They reported occasional calls from strangers asking for Jenny (who, I guess, was a character in the song). IIRC, one of these friends may have used an answering machine greeting specially tailored to entertain these callers. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 27 14:28:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <7B266BE4-767A-11D7-AF0E-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> References: <9d.380fc712.2bd8ec1b@aol.com> <7B266BE4-767A-11D7-AF0E-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20030427193234.GB31084@subatomix.com> On Thursday, April 24, 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > I do have several acquaintances who make their living at it [eBay] I tried that out of financial necessity for a while. It wasn't fun, and I don't believe I was ever in the black WRT living expenses. I can't really recommend it to anyone. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 27 14:40:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Getting long; Was Re: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030424161302.77316.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> References: <18181.130.76.32.21.1051197322.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> <20030424161302.77316.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030427194522.GD31084@subatomix.com> On Thursday, April 24, 2003, steve wrote: > --- Mike wrote: > > On items were there is a fixed supply, like antiques and collectibles, > > the only side of the equation that can increase is demand. Therefore, > > the price rises to the fair and correct value. Simple! > > Wrong, the "available" supply has also increased on many fixed supply > collectibles. People are digging stuff out of their closets that would of > never been available for sale before, or available to only a very limited > number of people. I agree. The actual 'supply' we should talk about is not the total number of units produced, but instead the number available for sale. And not only do closet diggers affect this number, but the item's turnover rate is also an important factor; some items simply change hands more often than others. The total-produced number is really an asymptotic limit to the real supply, which varies over time based on these, and possibly other, factors. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Apr 27 14:43:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Nationwide LD Calling (Was: Depressing realization...) In-Reply-To: <20030427192653.GA31084@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <001501c30cf4$fe9e0bf0$0181a8c0@k4jcw> Googling will tell you all about Jenny & Tommy Tutone. http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/8675309.htm has an article on it. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 15:27 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Nationwide LD Calling (Was: Depressing realization...) > > > On Saturday, April 26, 2003, VaxCat wrote: > > I hook up my old Everex 2400 modem, run zlink, type in ATDT and... > > > > (pause) > > > > There's nothing left to call. > > An interesting development I'm seeing in telephone service > (at least, here > in Oklahoma) is the land line telcos offering unlimited > nationwide long > distance calling for a flat monthly fee. I presume this is > an attempt to > compete with cell phone companies, with whom such service is the norm. > > A side effect of the service, if indeed it is being offered > in most areas of > the country, might be a renaissance of the dialup BBS in the > USA. A lack of > LD charges is also a lack of economic boundaries between BBS > communities, > enabling a level of interconnection we have seen only on the > Internet thus > far. The service may also enable other enthusiast dialup activity, > including UUCP networking. > > I'm very tempted to sign on to this service. Back in my BBS > days, I lived > in a rural town of about 1200 people that was not a member of > any LATA. Any > call out of the town's 867 prefix was a LD call. There were, > of course, no > BBSes reachable without a LD call, so BBSing was a very rare > pleasure. It > would be quite cool to be able to make up for all that lost > experience! > > As a neat note, all the numbers in that town were in the > 4000-5999 range. > There was an 867-5309, which matches the name of a song that > was popular > some years ago. Folklore says that it used to be the number > of the grade > school cafeteria, but that may be a myth. Families of two of > my friends > from high school, however, did take a turn each of having > that number. They > reported occasional calls from strangers asking for Jenny > (who, I guess, was > a character in the song). IIRC, one of these friends may have used an > answering machine greeting specially tailored to entertain > these callers. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Apr 27 14:44:47 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Nationwide LD Calling (Was: Depressing realization...) References: <20030427192653.GA31084@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3EAC327A.9080509@eoni.com> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >As a neat note, all the numbers in that town were in the 4000-5999 range. >There was an 867-5309, which matches the name of a song that was popular >some years ago. Folklore says that it used to be the number of the grade >school cafeteria, but that may be a myth. Families of two of my friends >from high school, however, did take a turn each of having that number. They >reported occasional calls from strangers asking for Jenny (who, I guess, was >a character in the song). IIRC, one of these friends may have used an >answering machine greeting specially tailored to entertain these callers. > > > I couldn't resist: From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 27 14:50:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: OT: eBay being sued over patent infringement (et al) In-Reply-To: <001901c30b02$94763200$8543cd18@D73KSM11> References: <001901c30b02$94763200$8543cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <20030427195508.GE31084@subatomix.com> On Friday, April 25, 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > In my experience, its [patent system] primary use is as a shakedown device > to extract royalty payments. The idea is not to actually thwart > competition, but to threaten it enough that accused infringers, fearing an > injunction, capitulate and pay a royalty. There is a neat little business process in use today by a few corps. I call it the Rambus method: 1. Hire some lawyers 2. Get some illegitimate patents 3. Deceive lots of people 4. Profit!!! I wonder if any company has tried to patent the process, and if so, if the company's employees had any idea of the irony. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 27 14:58:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: Getting long; Was Re: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <19513.130.76.32.21.1051202333.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> References: <18181.130.76.32.21.1051197322.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> <20030424161302.77316.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> <19513.130.76.32.21.1051202333.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <20030427200247.GF31084@subatomix.com> On Thursday, April 24, 2003, Mike wrote: > > --- Mike wrote: > > > On items were there is a fixed supply, like antiques and collectibles, > > > the only side of the equation that can increase is demand. > > > > Wrong, the "available" supply has also increased on many fixed supply > > collectibles. > > Only by an insignificant amount. If only 10,000 of an item was ever > produced, the supply can't exceed that The significance really depends. If the total produced is a low number, say, below 1K, you are very correct. But if the total produced is more like 10K or 100K, there's a lot of room for that availability figure to vary. If everyone but a few people are holding on to their items, it doesn't really matter how many were produced at all; the items are still hard to acquire and thus the value goes up. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 27 15:10:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:17 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <46214.130.76.32.21.1051219141.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> <200304241659.JAA12425@clulw009.amd.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424213803.01afa488@slave> <46214.130.76.32.21.1051219141.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <20030427201525.GG31084@subatomix.com> On Thursday, April 24, 2003, Mike wrote: > eBay is exactly what a sealed bid auction is. Except that the bids aren't sealed all the way, since the highest one is known to all bidders. -- Jeffrey Sharp From rborsuk at colourfull.com Sun Apr 27 15:13:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: OT: eBay being sued over patent infringement (et al) In-Reply-To: <20030427195508.GE31084@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <6ED91B68-78EC-11D7-AD7D-00050287688D@colourfull.com> I think Rambus did a hell of a job. Another engineer and I wrote the test vectors for some of the first Rambus modules coming out of NEC. It's the most incredible RAM I've ever worked on. Rob On Sunday, April 27, 2003, at 03:55 PM, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > There is a neat little business process in use today by a few corps. > I call > it the Rambus method: > > 1. Hire some lawyers > 2. Get some illegitimate patents > 3. Deceive lots of people > 4. Profit!!! > > I wonder if any company has tried to patent the process, and if so, if > the > company's employees had any idea of the irony. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 27 16:22:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: Nationwide LD Calling (Was: Depressing realization...) In-Reply-To: <3EAC327A.9080509@eoni.com> References: <20030427192653.GA31084@subatomix.com> <3EAC327A.9080509@eoni.com> Message-ID: <20030427210327.GI31084@subatomix.com> On Sunday, April 27, 2003, Jim wrote: > Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > As a neat note, all the numbers in that town were in the 4000-5999 > > range. There was an 867-5309, which matches the name of a song that was > > popular some years ago. > > I couldn't resist: Interesting. I'll fire up my file sharing app and see if anyone's got a MP3 of the Goo Goo Dolls playing it at a club. I think I'll have to convince my little garage band to cover it as well. What a wonderful little inside joke! -- Jeffrey Sharp From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 16:29:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: Amiga CATS developer CD 1.0, IBM Storyteller Live In-Reply-To: <20030426181020.24488.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <20030427212245.85001.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: > Mark writes: > > I posted a question about this to an Amiga newsgroup a while ago, but > > no-one there seemed to know much about it. > > > > I have a CD-ROM produced by Commodore-Amiga Inc. labelled CATS > > Developer CD V1.0 (CATSCD10). This was probably distributed to > > registered Amiga developers circa 1991. Interesting. > > The disc doesn't contain an ISO 9660 filesystem. It might have an Amiga FFS Filesystem. > I think this is a developers package for CD32 gaming. The CD32 was a > stillborn version of the A1200, intended to compete with Nintendo, etc. > I'll bet it autoboots on a CD32 console, if you can find one. I have one (and an SX-1 to go with it! - what I don't have is the MPEG cartridge) :-( Let me know if you want to pass it along, or just see what it plays in. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From MTPro at aol.com Sun Apr 27 16:39:01 2003 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? Message-ID: <166.1f70dae3.2bdda6c1@aol.com> From: Marvin Johnston << Things I would like to see in a ClassicCmp auction site: links/descriptions of equipment that could be incorporated in listings a mechanism to allow trades of equipment a way of qualifying buyers and sellers before they list/bid/trade. >> This last one is very interesting. In what way(s) would you qualify anyone to participate in the auctions? A ClassicCmp auction and/or trade site would be a great idea, but I'd bet that anyone who still wanted the most money for their item, would still list it on eBay for the most exposure and money potential. This can't really be escaped. There will be the ongoing problem of people just posting eBay auctions to the auction/trades site too. Best, David David Greelish Classic Computing www.classiccomputing.com "classiccomputing" on eBay From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Apr 27 16:42:31 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay being sued over patent infringement In-Reply-To: <20030427193234.GB31084@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <67E386AF-78F8-11D7-935B-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Sunday, April 27, 2003, at 02:32 PM, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Thursday, April 24, 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: >> I do have several acquaintances who make their living at it [eBay] > > I tried that out of financial necessity for a while. It wasn't fun, > and I > don't believe I was ever in the black WRT living expenses. I can't > really > recommend it to anyone. There are three companies here that I deal with doing it. As far as I can tell, a warehouse is the first requirement, and a fair amount of seed cash is the second. It takes a lot of volume. DSI enterprises keeps about 8 people in the Austin office alone, just running eBay auctions. But I agree; it's not a career that appeals to me. Doc > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp From marvin at rain.org Sun Apr 27 16:51:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? References: <166.1f70dae3.2bdda6c1@aol.com> Message-ID: <3EAC5071.32D4D72E@rain.org> MTPro@aol.com wrote: > > From: Marvin Johnston > > << Things I would like to see in a ClassicCmp auction site: > << a way of qualifying buyers and sellers before they list/bid/trade. > > This last one is very interesting. In what way(s) would you qualify anyone to > participate in the auctions? A ClassicCmp auction and/or trade site would be > a great idea, but I'd bet that anyone who still wanted the most money for > their item, would still list it on eBay for the most exposure and money > potential. This can't really be escaped. There will be the ongoing problem of > people just posting eBay auctions to the auction/trades site too. To me, one of the best ways of qualifying people is with references from people already involved. I think the feedback system is good, and mostly takes care of the problem. On a small scale, a review committee or peer presure is probably sufficient to keep things above board. On a larger scale, perhaps besides a feedback rating, a "recommended by" rating might prove useful. Anyone who wants to get the mostest out of their stuff will list at whatever venue will accomplish that. Right now, for Classic computer stuff it probably is ebay; that may change in the future. At least from my standpoing, who cares where stuff gets listed. The problem is getting the listings found :). From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 27 16:55:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: Ebay SNAFU In-Reply-To: <3EA956A3.253224A6@rain.org> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424235040.05e35ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EA956A3.253224A6@rain.org> Message-ID: <20030427203631.GH31084@subatomix.com> On Friday, April 25, 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > It is an indefinite suspension from posting to the ebay boards. There are > a lot of *PISSED* off people over the situation, myself included! Sounds like it's time to register a few false accounts and have a little fun... :-) ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H -- Jeffrey Sharp From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Apr 27 17:00:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: DSD 880 Q Bus RL02 emulator References: Message-ID: <3EAC527F.ED5FC7A7@compsys.to> >Don Mitchell wrote: > I have a Data Systems Design DSD 880 Q-Bus drive. > > It dates from 1982 or 1983, and is a RL02 emulator (as I > remember); there's a big old 8" drive (Shugart, I think) in > a 19" wide rack mount. Also, there's a Q-Bus interface. > > The last time I used it was maybe 1985, but more likely > 1984, and it worked. It could be set to look like an RL02 > with 5 mb but also you could set it up to give something > like 7 or 8 mb, as I remember. > > A quick look in the old documentation box doesn't show > anything there for it. > > I have no Q-Bus equipment on which to test it; I wouldn't > bet on its working at the moment, but it might. Storage > conditions have been, let's say, casual. > > I'd be happy to let it go for ACTUAL SHIPPING COST. It's > located in Buffalo, NY. > > Don Mitchell Jerome Fine replies: You have what is called a DSD 880/8. You are correct as far as the hard disk drive is concerned. This drive is also quite heavy relative to the 8 MBytes of capacity. I recommend local pickup. After the media scare over SARS is finished by the end of April and the WHO admits it made a mistake by the end of May, you can come a pick up my DSD 880/8 in Toronto. I can also provide a DSD 880/30 after I dig it out from the pile. Unfortunately, both hard drives are no longer working. It also contains a SINGLE 8" RX03 floppy disk drive. The RX03 is compatible with the DEC RX02 floppy disk drive, which is both a SSDD (Single-Sided Double Density) and a SSSD (Single-Sided Single Density identical to the IBM 8" SSSD floppy disk drive media) when ONLY one side is used. The RX03 can use both sides in either Single Density or Double Density mode. As a result, when the appropriate device driver is available, the RX03 can hold up to 1976 blocks as opposed to only 988 blocks for the RX02 and 494 blocks for the RX01 (always only SSSD). The reason I know it is possible is that I also have a broken DSD 880/8 along with a probably broken DSD 880/30. The latter has the same RX03, but the hard disk drive emulated 3 * RL02 hard drives or 30 MBytes in total. NOTE: The DSD 880/8 and the DSD 880/30 can handle only 18 bit addresses on the Qbus. If the device driver in RT-11 is the standard one distributed from DEC, then there is no provision for 22 bit buffer addresses. However, I managed to modify the DYX.SYS device driver to handle BOTH the Double-Sided RX03 and 22 bit addresses, the latter with a bounce buffer within the device driver. Since at one point I used the RX03 as my primary backup device, having 1976 blocks with the RX03 as opposed to only 988 blocks with the RX02 was a big advantage. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From marvin at rain.org Sun Apr 27 17:02:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: Ebay SNAFU References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030424235040.05e35ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EA956A3.253224A6@rain.org> <20030427203631.GH31084@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3EAC52F1.E0256C4@rain.org> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > On Friday, April 25, 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > It is an indefinite suspension from posting to the ebay boards. There are > > a lot of *PISSED* off people over the situation, myself included! > > Sounds like it's time to register a few false accounts and have a little > fun... :-) ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Besides the MSNBC article, The Auction Guild has a more in depth look at the SNAFU. It also states *HOW* the posted URL was obtained ... stupidity on the part of the Liveworld staff. That article is located at: http://www.auctionguild.com/generic110.html From dogas at bellsouth.net Sun Apr 27 17:43:00 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? References: <166.1f70dae3.2bdda6c1@aol.com> <3EAC5071.32D4D72E@rain.org> Message-ID: <003501c30d0c$dcc989b0$2c62d6d1@DOMAIN> From: Marvin Johnston > Anyone who wants to get the mostest out of their stuff will list at > whatever venue will accomplish that. Right now, for Classic computer > stuff it probably is ebay; that may change in the future. I agree here, but an auction site that also records and adds comments from shoppers and responses from sellers during the sale would provide a better benefit to the communities buyers, as one suggested change to ebay's style format. Ebay pretty much covers sales. I'm waiting for sites that encourage inventory, trading, lending, restoration, and package delivery (ala packet switching) through a store and forward network of associated people... ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Apr 27 18:15:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <20030427201525.GG31084@subatomix.com> References: <46214.130.76.32.21.1051219141.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> <200304241659.JAA12425@clulw009.amd.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424202243.00b68568@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030424213803.01afa488@slave> <46214.130.76.32.21.1051219141.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030428000623.020b0898@slave> At 21:15 27/04/2003, you wrote: >On Thursday, April 24, 2003, Mike wrote: > > eBay is exactly what a sealed bid auction is. > >Except that the bids aren't sealed all the way, since the highest one is >known to all bidders. Not quite: Everyone knows what the *second* highest one is, and that the highest bid is at least greater than (or equal to, depending on bid timing) that one. The fact that the price changes during the auction, however, is the greatest indicator that eBay is not remotely like a "sealed bid" auction. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From tosteve at yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 18:52:00 2003 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab for trade only. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030427125418.46df19d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030427235000.3534.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Gents, After all this talk of HP-5036A microprocessor labs, I thought this is a good time to speak up. I have an HP-5036a, in the suitcase of course, with the two manuals - "5036A Microprocessor Lab Service Manual" (~100 pages?) and "Practical Microprocessors (~450 pages)" both in very good condition. The suitcase has some scuffs, but the HP is in excellent like-new condition. http://68.109.73.245:8000/test/hp-5036a-1.jpg I don't want to sell it, but I'd gladly trade it for: MOS KIM-1 Exidy Sorcerer Sinclair ZX-80 PET 2001 w/chicklets Dynalogic Hyperion Steve. The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 27 19:05:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: System 34, pick up in Fayettville, Arkansas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I heard from somebody who has a "fully loaded" System 34 and a "Decision Data 750 line per minute printer". No CRTs. If anybody is interested, let me know. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Sun Apr 27 20:24:00 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: Yet some more In-Reply-To: <177FE558-784A-11D7-84D9-00050287688D@colourfull.com> from "Robert Borsuk" at Apr 26, 2003 08:49:24 PM Message-ID: <200304280122.h3S1MNSJ026543@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> I'd like the beagle bros. poster if nobody else took it. Been out of town all weekend, just got back. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 27 20:29:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? In-Reply-To: <166.1f70dae3.2bdda6c1@aol.com> References: <166.1f70dae3.2bdda6c1@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030428013353.GL31084@subatomix.com> On Sunday, April 27, 2003, MTPro@aol.com wrote: > I'd bet that anyone who still wanted the most money for their item, would > still list it on eBay for the most exposure and money potential. This > can't really be escaped. I agree. Making the seller the most money wouldn't be the purpose of a CC auction site. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sun Apr 27 20:31:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Auction Site? In-Reply-To: <003501c30d0c$dcc989b0$2c62d6d1@DOMAIN> References: <166.1f70dae3.2bdda6c1@aol.com> <3EAC5071.32D4D72E@rain.org> <003501c30d0c$dcc989b0$2c62d6d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <20030428013538.GM31084@subatomix.com> On Sunday, April 27, 2003, Mike wrote: > an auction site that also records and adds comments from shoppers and > responses from sellers during the sale would provide a better benefit to > the communities buyers, as one suggested change to ebay's style format. Comments on items would be a must. I've always wanted eBay to implement something like that, so that knowledgable people could add comments about items to better inform bidders. -- Jeffrey Sharp From rborsuk at colourfull.com Sun Apr 27 20:46:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: Yet some more In-Reply-To: <200304280122.h3S1MNSJ026543@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Message-ID: Sorry, all the Apple stuff got claimed. Rob On Sunday, April 27, 2003, at 09:22 PM, Martin Scott Goldberg wrote: > I'd like the beagle bros. poster if nobody else took it. Been out of > town > all weekend, just got back. > > Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Apr 27 21:16:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: HP 5036A microprocessor lab for trade only. In-Reply-To: <20030427235000.3534.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030427125418.46df19d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030427215056.3c0f0ba6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Steven, I have a Hyperion that is looking for a home but I don't really need another 5036. Do you have any other trading stuff? Where are you located? I'm in Florida. Joe At 04:50 PM 4/27/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Gents, > >After all this talk of HP-5036A microprocessor labs, I >thought this is a good time to speak up. > >I have an HP-5036a, in the suitcase of course, with >the two manuals - >"5036A Microprocessor Lab Service Manual" (~100 >pages?) >and >"Practical Microprocessors (~450 pages)" >both in very good condition. > >The suitcase has some scuffs, but the HP is in >excellent like-new condition. > >http://68.109.73.245:8000/test/hp-5036a-1.jpg > >I don't want to sell it, but I'd gladly trade it for: > >MOS KIM-1 >Exidy Sorcerer >Sinclair ZX-80 >PET 2001 w/chicklets >Dynalogic Hyperion > >Steve. >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >http://search.yahoo.com From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 21:25:01 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030428000623.020b0898@slave> Message-ID: <20030428022312.23031.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> --- Adrian Vickers wrote: > The fact that the price changes during the auction, > however, is the > greatest indicator that eBay is not remotely like a > "sealed bid" auction. > Not remotely? Is almost exactly like a sealed bid. Those price changes during the auction mean absolutely nothing, as the final price is determined in the last 5 seconds (at least in the majority of cases). Nobody takes those prices changes during the auction seriously, its like people talking before an auction, discussing what the items are worth, but nobody really tells you what they really think its worth. That comes in the last 5 seconds. Since the other bidders have no practical way to counter bid those bids entered during the last 5 seconds, ebay's auction model can accurately be called a "sealed bid" auction format, with the highest bidder paying the second highest bid. If you change ebay's format to extend the auction time after each bid, then I agree its not a sealed auction anymore. The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Apr 27 21:31:00 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: OT: eBay being sued over patent infringement (et al) In-Reply-To: <20030427195508.GE31084@subatomix.com> References: <001901c30b02$94763200$8543cd18@D73KSM11> <20030427195508.GE31084@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3EAC9209.4090806@pacbell.net> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Friday, April 25, 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > >>In my experience, its [patent system] primary use is as a shakedown device >>to extract royalty payments. The idea is not to actually thwart >>competition, but to threaten it enough that accused infringers, fearing an >>injunction, capitulate and pay a royalty. > > > There is a neat little business process in use today by a few corps. I call > it the Rambus method: > > 1. Hire some lawyers > 2. Get some illegitimate patents > 3. Deceive lots of people > 4. Profit!!! > > I wonder if any company has tried to patent the process, and if so, if the > company's employees had any idea of the irony. That is cheap, uninformed, and baseless. I worked at a company that used Rambus back in 1993, getting 600 Mb/s per pin in the days before SDRAM even existed. At the time, many people didn't believe it was possible. Remember that at that time routing 66 MHz signals on commodity PC boards was pushing the limit. Working with it was certainly a challenge (testing the interface posed special challenges), and the price per megabit of it never became competitive with commodity DRAM. Rambus really did have a vastly superior interface technology. The physics of it were better, the architecture of it was better. It really did work. What happened with respect to the JEDEC standards meeting may be a different story. But to claim that they set out to deceive people and take credit for things they didn't do is contrary to fact. As for point 4, part of the reason Rambus has had a spotty history is they didn't do enough of that. From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Apr 27 21:48:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <20030428022312.23031.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, steve wrote: > --- Adrian Vickers > wrote: > > > The fact that the price changes during the auction, > > however, is the > > greatest indicator that eBay is not remotely like a > > "sealed bid" auction. > > > Not remotely? Is almost exactly like a sealed bid. > Those price changes during the auction mean absolutely > nothing, as the final price is determined in the last > 5 seconds (at least in the majority of cases). Nobody Um, I'd have to disagree. I rarely try to snipe auctions, and most of the auctions where I'm selling things, there aren't any bids in the last few minutes. From my experience, you can usually tell how the auction is going to end up from watching it, and if there aren't many bids before the last few hours, there probably isn't going to be anyone sniping the auction. Your experience might be different than mine, but those are my experiences. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 27 22:12:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay sniping References: Message-ID: <002c01c30d33$aabe5780$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > ... if there aren't many bids before the last few hours, > there probably isn't going to be anyone sniping the > auction. I did get sniped in the last minute as a sole bidder on something once. It was a particularly foul experience. Like the guy was too chicken to bid normally. Bidding first and then sniping last is not too good, but a lot better than sneaking the whole way. John A. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Apr 27 22:15:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <20030428022312.23031.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, steve wrote: > Since the other bidders have no practical way to > counter bid those bids entered during the last 5 > seconds, ebay's auction model can accurately be called > a "sealed bid" auction format, with the highest bidder > paying the second highest bid. If you change ebay's You apparently haven't heard of the sniping services out there that can put in a bid reliably in the last 3-4 seconds. Though eBay's auction mechanism may end up being utilized in such a way that renders it similar to a sealed-bid auction, in some cases, it is not truly a sealed-bid auction. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 22:36:01 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030428033431.58197.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > Um, I'd have to disagree. I rarely try to snipe > auctions, and most of the > auctions where I'm selling things, there aren't any > bids in the last few > minutes. > > Your experience might be different than mine, but > those are my > experiences. Yea, I don't know, definitely not my experience, were these low interest auctions (less then 5 bids?). I just did a search on completed ebay auctions, and all the auctions with >10 bids were sniped. When there are only a few bidders and little interest in a auction item, all the differences between various auction models melt away. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 22:48:00 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030428034610.43179.qmail@web12401.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, steve wrote: > > > Since the other bidders have no practical way to > > counter bid those bids entered during the last 5 > > seconds, ebay's auction model can accurately be > called > > a "sealed bid" auction format, with the highest > bidder > > paying the second highest bid. If you change > ebay's > > You apparently haven't heard of the sniping services > out there that can > put in a bid reliably in the last 3-4 seconds. > Huh? You apparently haven't comprehended what I said, it doesn't make a difference if you have a sniping service that can realiably bid .0001 seconds before a auction ends. If someone bids 5 seconds before a auction that beats your previous bid price you have no way to reenter a new bid before that 5 seconds it up, ain't going to happen, and thats why ebay is a "sealed bid" auction model. The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Apr 27 23:42:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <20030428022312.23031.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030428022312.23031.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, steve wrote: > Not remotely? Is almost exactly like a sealed bid. > Those price changes during the auction mean absolutely > nothing, as the final price is determined in the last > 5 seconds (at least in the majority of cases). Nobody > takes those prices changes during the auction > seriously, its like people talking before an auction, > discussing what the items are worth, but nobody really > tells you what they really think its worth. That comes > in the last 5 seconds. > > Since the other bidders have no practical way to > counter bid those bids entered during the last 5 > seconds, ebay's auction model can accurately be called > a "sealed bid" auction format, with the highest bidder > paying the second highest bid. If you change ebay's > format to extend the auction time after each bid, then > I agree its not a sealed auction anymore. Sealed bid auctions don't result in bidding frenzies. I don't think your comparison of sealed bid to eBay auctions holds at all. -brian. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 28 00:08:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <20030428034610.43179.qmail@web12401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, steve wrote: > Huh? You apparently haven't comprehended what I said, it doesn't make a > difference if you have a sniping service that can realiably bid .0001 > seconds before a auction ends. If someone bids 5 seconds before a > auction that beats your previous bid price you have no way to reenter a > new bid before that 5 seconds it up, ain't going to happen, and thats > why ebay is a "sealed bid" auction model. I take exception to your claim that one has no way to enter a bid within the last 5 seconds if someone tops yours. There are numerous ways to achieve this, with the lowest tech way being to have multiple windows open with different bids ready to be submitted while you constantly refresh the item page. Sure, when you get down to the last .0001 second it is pretty much impossible, but 5 seconds is a lot of time. Again, while I agree that the basic premise of your description of eBay auctions can be correct under the right circumstances, it is not a sealed bid auction format. http://www.agorics.com/Library/Auctions/auction4.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 00:32:00 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030428053049.79545.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Chase wrote: > > Sealed bid auctions don't result in bidding > frenzies. They certainly do, put 10 similar valuable items up for auction in a traditional sealed bid auction, one week apart, as each bidder loses each week, his/her sealed bid will increase each week so by the 6 or 7 auction a frenzie will occur, everyone fearing that he/she will never be the winning bidder . Exactly like you see in ebay. I don't think > your comparison of sealed bid to eBay auctions holds > at all. Ebay always hides the the current highest bid, the auction ends at a fixed time, on many auction many bids are placed within 5 seconds of the end of auction basically removing any opportunity for the previous bidders to place a counter bid, sounds like a sealed bid auction to me.... > > -brian. The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 00:57:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: DSD 880 Q Bus RL02 emulator In-Reply-To: <3EAC527F.ED5FC7A7@compsys.to> Message-ID: <20030428055542.97785.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > >Don Mitchell wrote: > > > I have a Data Systems Design DSD 880 Q-Bus drive... > > ...I can also provide a DSD 880/30 after I dig it out from the > pile. Unfortunately, both hard drives are no longer working. I'd be interested in any or all of these. I am somewhat deficient in Qbus disks physically smaller than a real RL02 (and I have this CompuServe TriNode to populate...) I'm in Ohio, but I do get up to Buffalo and/or Toronto once or twice a year. I know how large a DSD 440 is, and I don't relish the idea of shipping something that weighs *more*. -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 01:07:00 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030428060556.24153.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, steve wrote: > > I take exception to your claim that one has no way > to enter a bid within > the last 5 seconds if someone tops yours. There are > numerous ways to > achieve this, with the lowest tech way being to have > multiple windows open > with different bids ready to be submitted while you > constantly refresh the > item page. Maybe if you had multiple windows up with a predefined bid alreadly placed into another window (where all you have to do is click a mouse button) you could do it one out of 10 times (server response is typically seconds, both on your end and ebays end), but I doubt you could enter a new bid value based on the new information of the sniped bid, which is what you really need to be able to do, but I suppose in theory its possible. If you automated the process with a intelligent sniper that could read the current ebay bid, well then, I guess you would have a bunch of computers bidding against each other in a true open bid auction, that I agree with. (hmm, I wonder is thats coming) > Again, while I agree that the basic premise of your > description of eBay > auctions can be correct under the right > circumstances, Yes, thats all I am trying to say (excuse me as I am thinking on the fly), its really a hybrid auction model, the higher the interest in the auction item, the more snipes are likely to occur, and the more the auction appears to simulate a sealed bid auction format. The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 01:13:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: Amiga CATS developer CD 1.0, IBM Storyteller Live In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030428061110.61742.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark wrote: > Hi, > > I posted a question about this to an Amiga newsgroup a while ago, but > no-one there seemed to know much about it. In a way, I'm not surprised... the CD-TV was not a big seller. > I have a CD-ROM produced by Commodore-Amiga Inc. labelled CATS Developer > CD V1.0 (CATSCD10). This was probably distributed to registered Amiga > developers circa 1991. > > The disc doesn't contain an ISO 9660 filesystem... I don't know if this would work with any of the Amiga emulators (like UAE, etc.), but I expect it _would_ work with a real CD-TV (which is not a CD-32). The CD-TV was an Amiga in a black box, styled like a VCR or component CD-player. It would play audio CDs, CD+G and even CD+MIDI (although I am only aware of one CD+MIDI disk ever being produced). It should resemble an Amiga 500 with an A570 CD-ROM drive (more or less) with some extra libraries in ROM. There's a VFD display on the front that the 68000 can write to, and an early memory card interface (64K/128K?) for saving game data, etc. You could get a floppy drive, mouse and keyboard for it (the floppy was standard Amiga, but black; the mouse and keyboard were not). I had one for a while, before it was stolen in a 1990 burglary. I paid full MSRP of $799 for it. Somewhere, I still have the CD that came with it, as well as the black caddy. Oh yea... IIRC the drive is 1X and definitely uses a caddy. Besides playing audio disks with its built-in ROM-based interface, I did hook it up to my Amiga 1000 over a parallel cable and built a boot floppy for it with DNet and the NetKeys handler, so I could drive it from my regular desktop machine (two CPUs, two monitors, one mouse and keyboard) to explore the machine. There's some really great crud in the corners of the demo disk that came in the package. Thanks for sharing this. It makes me miss my CD-TV (but not enough to go pay too much on eBay for one. ;-) -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From rcini at optonline.net Mon Apr 28 01:41:48 2003 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: ANN: Altair32 Emulator v2.5 release notice Message-ID: <000201c30d03$65e89470$1501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Hello, all: Tonight I posted to my Web site the latest release of the Altair32 Emulator for Windows. Through the hard, and much appreciated work of my closest project teammates, over the last few months we've made a few bug fixes and several enhancements that improve the functionality of the Emulator. The release notes include the complete detail, but the most significant changes include: * "Revision 0" front panel graphics. * Disk drive dialog replaced with bitmap graphics of real disk drive enhanced with disk sounds. * Full VT100 terminal support within the Windows Console terminal option. Now, you can add color to your BASIC programs by using CHR$ codes. * Added the option of using a real terminal as the console through the host's serial port. * Updated unified configuration dialogs. * Added the ability to create blank disk files on the fly. * Revised documentation. Enjoy the emulator. For the next release we're working on bitmapped graphics for the paper tape reader and possibly a Z80 CPU "plug-in". If you have any questions or comments, feel free to drop me a line. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ Altair32 page: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/Altair32.htm /************************************************************/ From vance at neurotica.com Mon Apr 28 01:42:32 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: New finds this week In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It depends on the framebuffers. I believe these machines came standard with GT1-series framebuffers, and support has been removed in AIX >= 4. If you replace the framebuffer, the 220 should make a really nice Xterminal. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I found some new toys out at Purdue Surplus this week... > > 2xIBM RS/6000 model 220 -- POWER single chip 33MHz > > 2xIBM RS/6000 model 250 -- PowerPC 601, 66MHz > > The one I opened had both memory and a hard disk, and all but one of them > still had their keys. > > These things are nice pizza-box sized things, I'm tempted to try and use > them as X-Terminals, since they do have framebuffers. Has anyone tried > this before? > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de Mon Apr 28 01:43:01 2003 From: thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: New finds this week In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 24-Apr-2003 Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I found some new toys out at Purdue Surplus this week... > > 2xIBM RS/6000 model 220 -- POWER single chip 33MHz > > 2xIBM RS/6000 model 250 -- PowerPC 601, 66MHz > > The one I opened had both memory and a hard disk, and all but one of them > still had their keys. > > These things are nice pizza-box sized things, I'm tempted to try and use > them as X-Terminals, since they do have framebuffers. Has anyone tried > this before? If you have at least 64MB-RAM, a GXT150 Framebuffer and a fast HD the 250 makes not only a good X-Terminal but a very useful and *quiet* workstation. I use mine for Mail, News, Latex, programming and other stuff that doesn't need much horsepower. (don't use Java ;-) ) The 220 is somewhat slower but should still be fast enough if you stick with AIX 4.2. bye Thilo From dwoyciesjes at comast.net Mon Apr 28 01:43:29 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: FS/FT: VaxStation 3100 m38; C-128; Atari 800 References: <3E957FB9.7EB78DAD@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3EA937F7.6AC29623@comast.net> Well, the Vax and C-128 are sold, but the Atari is still available... David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Well, in the process of going through my computer room, and sorting > stuff out to keep, and get rid of; I've decided to get rid of 3 of my > classics. They've sat around for too long, going unused. So... > --- > --- C-128 & Atari 800 > - both have 5 1/4 floppy drives, power cables, joystick > - Bunch of games and apps > > Best offer. Pick up in New Haven CT preferred (especially for the Vax). > The C-128 and Atari should'nt be that bad to ship, though. > Cash, money order, PayPal. For trade, I'm looking for SCSI & IDE HDDs > over 4GB, true-parity memory, PC100/133 DIMMs, P-III 800 CPU, 19" > monitor... > > -- -- --- Dave WOyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From A.F.R.Bain at statslab.cam.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 01:44:07 2003 From: A.F.R.Bain at statslab.cam.ac.uk (Alan Bain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: Facit 4070 8 level Paper Tape Punch For Sale (Cambridge, UK) Message-ID: As part of an imposed old-hardware clear out, and the decision on the grounds of space to stick to 5 level tape for which I have a reader and printer, I've got a Facit 4070 paper tape punch for sale. In working order, complete with chad box. Instructions on connecting to a parallel port may be found at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~pmaydell/misc/cardpunch/dongle.htm It's in Cambridge, UK and is heavy so would be expensive to post anywhere! Offers, questions to me at Alan Bain From n1malone at cox.net Mon Apr 28 01:44:34 2003 From: n1malone at cox.net (Neil Malone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: Board ID : Plessey PM DCV51? Message-ID: <3EA9DFFA.3F91A4AF@cox.net> Is it possible for you to send me the data sheets for the 8X305. thx From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Mon Apr 28 01:45:02 2003 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: free pc stuff (Salford, UK) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030426160716.039343d8@mail.mosthosts.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030426121835.00a97008@mail.n.ml.org> Damn, and the SCSI/RAM/CPU's/etc. sounded good for a minute. Too bad it's in UK. Shipping would be a nightmare. -John At 11:18 AM 4/26/2003, you wrote: >Hi, am trying to do a clear-out, and have a hefty box containing the >following available FOC to anybody who wants to collect it, from Salford, >UK, else it goes in the bin... There is nothing particularly noteworthy >here, btw, but it might interest someone. > >10 x 486 motherboards, some with processors, at least one with RAM. AT >form factor. >6 x Pentium 1 motherboards, AT form factor >1 x Socket 7 motherboard, ATX form factor. works sometimes.. >4 x ISA internal modems >1 x PCI internal modem >1 x ISA game port card. > >All are from stipped down PCs, so may or may not work (though apart from >the ATX board, I'd be pretty confident of them.) > >Also have a mountain of Floppy and IDE (ata33) cables whomever can pick >through. I'll also probably be adding to this pile as I work my way >through the boxes. I know there are processors and RAM of similar >vintage, not to >mention SCSI cards, network and video, etc, I can add to it. I have cases >and some (working but 'need adjustment') monitors too I can throw in. > >If anybody is interested, drop me an email on robert at irrelevant dot com >or ring on 07801 809928. I don't want to get into mailing individual bits out >I am afraid, this is mainly an effort to make some space so I can work on >a new bedroom! :-) > >regards > >Rob. ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 01:45:30 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: Blow or Suck - Which is Best? Message-ID: <20030426214649.48648.qmail@web20804.mail.yahoo.com> I need to remove several years of accumulated dust and debris from the inside of an HP3000 Series 40. I will remove the boards and vacuum the inside of the cabinet (size of a washing machine), but was wondering what is the best way to remove dust and dirt from the PC cards in a way that will not damage them - mechanically or electrically. My default would be to clean with a shop vacuum, but I was wondering if that might cause static damage to the components on the board? Would a high pressure air compressor be a better choice? Thanks, Lee Courtney The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Mon Apr 28 01:45:59 2003 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: PC parts (was: Re: free pc stuff (Salford, UK)) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030426160716.039343d8@mail.mosthosts.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030426160716.039343d8@mail.mosthosts.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030427091022.00a97120@mail.n.ml.org> Wrong side of the pond is right, I was thinking the same thing (another working AT board with CPU would be great to fix a machine who's board ate itself). Toth, where are ya? I've got my Token Ring which has sat here on the back burner pile since I've been dealing with other things. DB9 to Vampire connector cables (8ft), an IBM 8228, a 3Com LinkBuilder FMS TR 12, a Bay Networks BayStack Token Ring Hub 504 series 24port with MDA Fiber card and Network Management Module, an old AT case, some not-really working AT 386/486/Pentium boards, an ISA Cirrus Logic video card (worked as of 3 months ago when I last used it), etc. I even have a couple EISA Adaptec 1742 (?) cards floating about. Note: The Token Ring NICs are all PCI and are IBM and Madge, save one: an ISA Ring Adapter card that has BOTH ISA and MCA edges (just flip a daughtercard/backplate). Nothing to spare on NICs or PCI/ISA SCSI though, since they are used in my other boxes. Yours for shipping and maybe some LED's/kits? can never go wrong with blinky lights and loud fans, heh. All in all told, probably 2 boxes of stuff, weighing in at about 30-40 pounds. UPS ground/USPS last I checked to most lower 48 states locations is under $35. Talk more off-list and I can give you a better number. -John john at boff-net dot dhs dot org --------------------------------- At 03:50 AM 4/27/2003, you wrote: >On Sat, 26 Apr 2003, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > > > Hi, am trying to do a clear-out, and have a hefty box containing the > > following available FOC to anybody who wants to collect it, from > > Salford, UK, else it goes in the bin... There is nothing particularly > > noteworthy here, btw, but it might interest someone. > >Darn, on the wrong side of the pond :/ > > > 10 x 486 motherboards, some with processors, at least one with RAM. AT > > form factor. > > 6 x Pentium 1 motherboards, AT form factor > > 1 x Socket 7 motherboard, ATX form factor. works sometimes.. > >I've been talking about this off-list for awhile now, but I might as well >mention something here too. I've been playing with the idea of building a >Mosix or similar distributed CPU project from old (obsolete? whats that? >:) 386/486/Pentium boards. I drew up a CAD design for a rack that can hold >12 such boards on edge. The design uses right angle ISA adapters to allow >NICs to be plugged into the motherboards. > > > I know there are processors and RAM of similar vintage, not to mention > > SCSI cards, network and video, etc, I can add to it. > >------- >Recycled text from an older email: >(Maybe I should put up a better list on web page?) > >I am looking for certain bits of odd, or in some cases very common PC >hardware if you happen to come across much in the way of used PC stuff. I >use such boards for driver development/testing for Linux, BSD, etc for >older hardware when time permits. Since I don't make money from working >with free drivers, I can't afford to spend much on the hardware, but I am >happy to cover shipping costs. [Of course, there is a limit to what I can >afford, so if lots of people contact me, I may have to ask about putting >some things on hold...] > >The kinds of boards I'm always looking for are: > > S3 chipset based video boards, ISA, EISA, VLB, PCI > Other older ISA, EISA, VLB, PCI video boards (*except* most 'trident' > chipset) > Promise Technology caching controllers, ISA, EISA, VLB, etc > Promise Technology (other boards) > BusTek, BusLogic, Mylex [all the same company] SCSI controllers > Adaptec SCSI controllers (practically any type) > Madge Token Ring cards > Token Ring cards (3Com, IBM, etc) > SMC Arcnet and Ethernet cards (some originally made by Western Digital) > >The more "unusual" cards are also often helpful, including boards with >EISA or MCA interfaces. Some old motherboards and such are also quite >helpful, such as old multi-processor types. > >In addition to the kind of hardware above that I can use for driver >development and testing, 3Com Etherlink III cards of most any type are >always helpful. I tend to give lots of those away to local schools and >such, as they are very reliable and were (are?) extremely popular cards. >------- > >-Toth ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From jforbes2 at mindspring.com Mon Apr 28 01:46:27 2003 From: jforbes2 at mindspring.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: IBM PC DOS 1.10 on a Hard Drive Message-ID: <3EAC3F79.3020803@mindspring.com> I have an early 64k 5150 PC, with an internal 10mb hard drive, and external power supply for the hd, and a Davong controller card. I figured I'd never get this thing running, but I lucked out and found another Davong ps and card, plus the original (July 1982) documentation and installation diskette!!!! $5 plus $20 shipping....a bargain for ebay! I finally got around to seeing if I could get it working. The drive in my machine is labelled 10 mg formatted. The docs and installation software mention 6mb and 12mb formatted drives...not 10mb. To install it, I followed the instructions in the manual...first, make a blank formatted bootable dos 1.10 floppy. Then copy the files from the Davong diskette to the new floppy. Now run the installation program, which configures and formats the hard drive. At first, I told it that the drive was 12mb, and it crashed during the installation. I changed to 6mb, and it worked fine. Now I have a system that boots from the floppy I made, and comes up in the A: drive...but that is the hard drive! B: is another partition on the hard drive (volume, actually), and C: is the floppy drive. Wierd to get used to. But PC DOS 1.x on a hard drive is a rather rare thing. I have a copy of PC DOS 1.00 also, and the Davong software has support for it also. That might be my next experiment. This drive identification scheme is just like on my Kaypro 10, which runs CP/M on it's hard drive (but the Kayrpo boots from the hard drive, unlike the PC) The Kaypro has user areas, which act a bit like the directories on DOS 2.x + -- Jim Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum! http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2 From vance at neurotica.com Mon Apr 28 01:46:55 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: OT: eBay being sued over patent infringement (et al) In-Reply-To: <20030427195508.GE31084@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > In my experience, its [patent system] primary use is as a shakedown > > device to extract royalty payments. The idea is not to actually > > thwart competition, but to threaten it enough that accused infringers, > > fearing an injunction, capitulate and pay a royalty. > > There is a neat little business process in use today by a few corps. I > call it the Rambus method: > > 1. Hire some lawyers > 2. Get some illegitimate patents > 3. Deceive lots of people > 4. Profit!!! > > I wonder if any company has tried to patent the process, and if so, if the > company's employees had any idea of the irony. How about more like this. 1. Steal underpants. 2. Hire some Lawyers. 3. ??? 4. Profit!! Peace... Sridhar From jforbes2 at mindspring.com Mon Apr 28 01:47:24 2003 From: jforbes2 at mindspring.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4010 graphics terminal Message-ID: <3EAC401A.4090503@mindspring.com> I got my Tek 4010 powered up and running. See the link in my sig for some pics and more info. -- Jim Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum! http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2 From nickmiller at charter.net Mon Apr 28 01:59:12 2003 From: nickmiller at charter.net (Nick Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: eBay sniping References: <006801c30ada$da566830$0181a8c0@k4jcw> Message-ID: <010c01c30ade$03703a90$7a00a8c0@themillers> Sniping is simply a bidders maximum bid entered at the latest possible moment, no more, no less. Nick Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C.Wren" To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 10:29 PM Subject: RE: eBay sniping > Sellam said: > > > Which is a clear example of how eBay pricing gets > > artificially inflated. > > I'm not saying it happens all the time, but it probably happens enough > > (and this is clearly obvious from some of the prices that > > some auctions > > end at) that the end result is artificial price inflation. > > Nonsense. This is how *all* auctions work. It has nothing to do with > sniping, it has to do with emotional bidding. If you starting letting the > "I gotta have it" emotions run over the "I'll pay only this much" logic, > you're not bidding wisely. > > --John From classiccmp at karg.org Mon Apr 28 02:46:00 2003 From: classiccmp at karg.org (classiccmp@karg.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:18 2005 Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming References: <000501c30b6d$9c721990$6300a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <003901c30d59$fca889a0$2106080a@internal.net> > I could sure use manuals for the Vaxstation 4000/60. Mine boots in two > stages and I KNOW there is a way to set the prom to just doggone BOOT. At the triple chevron (>>>) prompt, use the following command: SET HALT where is a single digit number as follows: 1 - automatic restart (if O/S restart fails, does a reboot) 2 - automatic reboot (system halts, then reboots) 3 - automatic halt (system halts after startup, and displays >>> prompt) To automatically boot on power on, use 2 (for non-DEC OS) or 1 for (VAX/VMS). Enjoy! Christian From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Apr 28 03:03:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: 286 Computers (and an Apollo note) Message-ID: If you have a complete 386 DX 66 or higher (box), I might be interested. -- actually, my wife would be more interested. She misses WordStar and the Dr. Brain series. She'd be in 7th heaven... Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: John Rollins [mailto:kd7bcy@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 11:36 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 286 Computers (and an Apollo note) >*But* you can play Castle Wolfenstein 3D on them! ;) Why keep a 286 around when it does fine on my Mac? I don't play it much anymore, I bought the new Return to Castle Wolfenstein, someone told me it's based on the Quake 3 engine. Very nice, but needs a lot of memory. The Belkin Nostromo game controller really helps, too. But what am I supposed to do with the old PC's? I'm keeping the more interesting stuff like my PC and XT. And my personal favorite, the HP Vectra. But the typical beige box junk is cluttering up my basement. Everything from 286/386 parts to Pentium MMX systems, what can be done with them besides recycling the chassis and hoping you'll need the other parts eventually? I don't imagine many people need or want that old stuff, even on eBay. Speaking of eBay, I have some Apollo parts I'm going to put up just to see what happens. Odd stuff like WD7000 cards and memory cards and such. Once I gather up most of the other stuff I'll be offering it here on the list, but if you're interested in getting an old Apollo chassis and various parts and bits, let me know. I could probably ship the small stuff, but the big stuff is pretty heavy so I'd prefer to give it to someone local. I'll post a note here when I get it all together. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Apr 28 05:43:00 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: 286 Computers (and an Apollo note) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >If you have a complete 386 DX 66 or higher (box), I might be interested. -- >actually, my wife would be more interested. She misses WordStar and the Dr. >Brain series. She'd be in 7th heaven... Sorry, I don't have anything that fast that is complete. I know I have a few DX33 boards around, but the only thing that actually qualifies as a complete system is the 200MMX that someone else has already asked for, or some rather slow 286 and 386 - I don't know that I have anything faster than 33. Even my Vectra 486 is only 25MHz. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From dholland at woh.rr.com Mon Apr 28 06:06:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: Blow or Suck - Which is Best? In-Reply-To: <20030426214649.48648.qmail@web20804.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030426214649.48648.qmail@web20804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1051527879.7297.6.camel@crusader> FWIW, YMMV/Etc... This is what I do, when I find some nice bit of old hardware that's full of dust. Use a nice _SOFT_ 1" paintbrush, and canned air. The canned air doesn't seem to have enough pressure to cause any real damage, (be careful however not to turn the can over, so the liquid comes out.) The paintbrush knocks all the dust loose anyways, so it doesn't take much to get rid of it either. There are rumors of folks here using a dish washer, but I'm not brave enough to try that. (Soap and water on the plastic parts works pretty well though.) David On Sat, 2003-04-26 at 17:46, Lee Courtney wrote: > I need to remove several years of accumulated dust and > debris from the inside of an HP3000 Series 40. I will > remove the boards and vacuum the inside of the cabinet > (size of a washing machine), but was wondering what is > the best way to remove dust and dirt from the PC cards > in a way that will not damage them - mechanically or > electrically. > > My default would be to clean with a shop vacuum, but I > was wondering if that might cause static damage to the > components on the board? Would a high pressure air > compressor be a better choice? > > Thanks, > > Lee Courtney > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Mon Apr 28 08:05:00 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: How to build a working digital computer book In-Reply-To: <3EA8355B.6010504@cox.net> Message-ID: Hi Bryan, well, that's no secret, I found it on ebay... :) It was "buried" somewhere in the "wrong" category. Herbert on 4/24/03 3:04 PM, Bryan Blackburn at oldcomp@cox.net wrote: > I want to know where you are getting this stuff!! (So I can try to get > there before you next time!) > > -Bryan > > The Design Fort DTP wrote: > >> I recently acquired the awesome book "How to build a working digital >> computer" by Alcosser, Phillips and Wolk. Within the next year (as time >> allows) I want to (re)construct this computer. >> >> I know this book was discussed on here before. Maybe there are other people >> out there now who are in the process of building it or built it before. I >> would like to get in touch with anybody who has experience building it. >> >> The only website I found on so far that shows a built "Paperclip computer" >> is this one: >> http://www.apparent-wind.com/mbr/emmerack.html >> >> If anybody knows any other pictures of a built "Paperclip computer" on the >> net, please let me know. >> >> Greetings >> Herbert >> Computer Museum of Nova Scotia From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Apr 28 08:14:00 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: ISA Expansion Box Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51277F9@MAIL10> I have one of these boxes. It appears that IBM took another PC case off the assembly line, stuck in a power supply and a passive backplane. There are two interface cards, one for the PC and one for the expansion box, connected by a very stiff cable -- don't recall what's on them but probably buffering ICs and the like. The cable is about 3/4" in diameter. It terminates in D-shell connectors but I don't recall the pin count (probably D50). The stiffness of the cable borders on inflexible and mine pops-out of the metal shell constantly. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 11:42 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: ISA Expansion Box --- pmulry wrote: > i've never actually seen one of these. If somone has clear pics can they > make them available for download. if not to complicated might be able to > make one using an isa riser card that came with an old 486. do they > connect to serial port or piggyback an isa slot? They are a box with a passive ISA back plane and a pair of ISA cards that are connected with a single round cable about as big around as your thumb. The box itself is styled like an XT (down to the sloping front). -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 28 10:20:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <20030428053049.79545.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, steve wrote: > They certainly do, put 10 similar valuable items up > for auction in a traditional sealed bid auction, one > week apart, as each bidder loses each week, his/her > sealed bid will increase each week so by the 6 or 7 > auction a frenzie will occur, everyone fearing that > he/she will never be the winning bidder . Exactly like > you see in ebay. That's not a frenzy. That's a (somewhat contrived) case of the market value going up because presumably the auctioneer has the only supply of some one thing that a group of people want. > Ebay always hides the the current highest bid, the > auction ends at a fixed time, on many auction many > bids are placed within 5 seconds of the end of auction > basically removing any opportunity for the previous > bidders to place a counter bid, sounds like a sealed > bid auction to me.... The biggest and most important difference is the most obvious one. In a normal sealed bid auction, everyone submits their bid by a certain deadline. Nobody knows what anyone else has bid. At the end of the auction, the envelopes with the bids are opened, and the highest bid submitted is the winner. In a standard eBay auction, everyone always sees who the top bidder is and what the current high bid is. If there's enough time, the high bidder's highest amount entered can be probed by entering successively higher bids. There is not much room for comparison between the two. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 28 10:22:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <20030428060556.24153.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, steve wrote: > Maybe if you had multiple windows up with a predefined > bid alreadly placed into another window (where all you > have to do is click a mouse button) you could do it > one out of 10 times (server response is typically > seconds, both on your end and ebays end), but I doubt > you could enter a new bid value based on the new > information of the sniped bid, which is what you > really need to be able to do, but I suppose in theory > its possible. Not only is it possible but I've done it before. > If you automated the process with a intelligent sniper > that could read the current ebay bid, well then, I > guess you would have a bunch of computers bidding > against each other in a true open bid auction, that I > agree with. (hmm, I wonder is thats coming) It wouldn't be too much more to program some of these sniping services to do just that. But it would rely on the speed of eBay's servers, which are prone to all manner of problems. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Apr 28 11:03:01 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: Valuing classic computers, was re: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: References: <3EA90183.9020000@aconit.org> Message-ID: <20030428160134.GI1631@uiuc.edu> Vintage Computer Festival said: > > > All these factors play a role and that is why I think eBay prices DO > > reflect market value. eBay provides an almost perfect global marketplace > > and in such an environment prices will fluctuate around a "market value". > > And again, I disagree, precisely because of the way that eBay auctions > work, and the factors that can influence a final selling price. No matter what anyone says, it remains a fact that eBay DOES determine a fair market value of an item -- the value of that item on the eBay market :) eBay prices really have no relevance outside that scope, since any (most?) other markets you'd be selling classiccmp items in (hamfest, local shop, etc) are inherently local and/or specialized can't really be judged by the same standards as eBay. There can be more then one fair market value for something, dependant on the market in question. This is why it's SO annoying to hear someone try to bargain at a hamfest by saying "but I could get 10 times that on ebay!" - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From jss at subatomix.com Mon Apr 28 11:06:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <20030428053049.79545.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030428053049.79545.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030428161053.GA3980@subatomix.com> On Sunday, April 27, 2003, steve wrote: > Ebay always hides the the current highest bid, Whether you think of it as the high bid or the second highest bid, it doesn't matter. eBay shows a possibly changing price while the auction is in progress. Sealed bid auctions don't do that. That's a pretty big difference. > many bids are placed within 5 seconds of the end of auction basically > removing any opportunity for the previous bidders to place a counter bid, > sounds like a sealed bid auction to me.... The time period when most bids happen is irrelevant. On an active eBay auction, there is some non-zero duration in which you or some machine can see the highest proxy bid and react. It doesn't matter how close to zero it is, because any sufficiently fast machine could do it. Sealed bid auctions do not have this duration. A person or machine would require time travel in order to react to a bid. Not even an infinitely fast machine could do it. -- Jeffrey Sharp From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 28 11:21:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <20030428161053.GA3980@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Apr 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > The time period when most bids happen is irrelevant. On an active eBay > auction, there is some non-zero duration in which you or some machine can > see the highest proxy bid and react. It doesn't matter how close to zero it > is, because any sufficiently fast machine could do it. Sealed bid auctions > do not have this duration. A person or machine would require time travel in > order to react to a bid. Not even an infinitely fast machine could do it. Superman could win any sealed-bid auction he wanted to. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Apr 28 11:33:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <20030428161053.GA3980@subatomix.com> References: <20030428053049.79545.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> <20030428161053.GA3980@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <35245.130.76.32.16.1051547492.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> > On Sunday, April 27, 2003, steve wrote: >> Ebay always hides the the current highest bid, > It doesn't matter how close to > zero it is, because any sufficiently fast machine could do it. Sealed > bid auctions do not have this duration. A person or machine would > require time travel in order to react to a bid. Not even an infinitely > fast machine could do it. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp Not true! I can bid at 1 to 2 seconds left and no proxy bidding software is going to have time to see my bid posted, download the new web page, process the data, calculate a new bid and upload the new data, all withing 1 second. But aside from that, NO software works that way. They work by simply placing their bid, one time, just at the end. None look for a bid and make a change. And no person can react in that amount of time. Upload and download times are far slower than the fastest machine. Machine speed is irrelevant. I would bet monet that no person ever sees a bid placed with 2 or 3 seconds left that has time to react and change their bid. From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Apr 28 11:47:01 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <35245.130.76.32.16.1051547492.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> References: <20030428053049.79545.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> <20030428161053.GA3980@subatomix.com> <35245.130.76.32.16.1051547492.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <34360.130.76.32.16.1051548329.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Here is another interesting thing about sniping. I hear people all the time saying that sniping hurts sellers. However, I have never seen a seller that doesn't like sniping. It's always a bidder that complains and never the experienced seller. From alhartman at yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 12:05:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: Reminder - Trenton Computer Festival coming up... In-Reply-To: <20030428065912.17182.78764.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030428170231.77990.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> A reminder to the list that the TCF 2003 is coming up this weekend... 28th Annual TRENTON COMPUTER FESTIVAL(TM) May 3-4, 2003 NJ Convention Center in the Raritan Center Edison, NJ Info here: http://www.pcshow.com/ While no longer held in Trenton (now in Edison NJ), it's a worthwhile show for the fleamarket where lots of classic computers and other hardware (I.C.s, and other cool things) can often be found cheap! If you are in traveling distance to Edison NJ, you might want to make the trip. While the flea has been getting smaller and smaller, AND is mostly dominated by recent PC stuff... There are still classic bargains to be had. Last year there were several complete Apple II systems (monitor, drives, CPU, joysticks, software) for $5.00 each. PowerMac 6100's for $10.00 (A pallet of them). A dealer was selling DEC Alpha Motherboards. LaserJet IIIp's for $40.00 (I bought one), and Lexmark Laser Printers (a small WinPrinter) for $50.00. Amigas of all stripes were there, lots of older systems I didn't know much about. I'm sure some of the "Big Iron" a lot of you here are talking about. S-100 boards here and there... Software, and other things... I'll report anything cool I see. I'm hoping to pick up a TRS-80 Model I or III (or my holy grail... an LNW-80), and maybe another Amiga. I passed up a late model white C-64 for $5.00 last year. This year, I won't. I also saw an SX-64 being sold. But didn't want to pay $100.00 for it. Since it didn't look like it was working. That's all! Regards, Al The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From deano at rattie.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 28 12:37:00 2003 From: deano at rattie.demon.co.uk (Deano Calver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping References: Message-ID: <0a9d01c30dac$930cc710$2000a8c0@hal> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Superman could win any sealed-bid auction he wanted to. Didn't know Superman collecting old computer but if so.... All I have to do is find a PDP-1, hide small peices of Kyptonite in it and then let Superman use his powers to win it. Once he has it and is examining it, the Kyptonite will kill/disable him and I shall rule the world Ha Ha Ha Bye, Deano From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 28 13:01:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <35245.130.76.32.16.1051547492.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Apr 2003, Mike wrote: > I would bet monet that no person ever sees a bid placed with 2 or 3 > seconds left that has time to react and change their bid. How much monet? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Apr 28 13:06:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping Message-ID: Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Superman could win any sealed-bid auction he wanted to. And all along, we thought the "S" stood for Sellam! :) From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Apr 28 13:07:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Apr 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > How much monet? I'll see your Monet and raise you two Gaugins and a Grandma Moses... ;{} John From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Apr 28 13:28:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <34360.130.76.32.16.1051548329.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQue st.net> References: <35245.130.76.32.16.1051547492.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> <20030428053049.79545.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> <20030428161053.GA3980@subatomix.com> <35245.130.76.32.16.1051547492.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030428191337.01a79530@slave> At 17:45 28/04/2003, you wrote: >Here is another interesting thing about sniping. I hear people all the >time saying that sniping hurts sellers. > >However, I have never seen a seller that doesn't like sniping. It's >always a bidder that complains and never the experienced seller. I'm extremely tempted to agree with you on this (although I should point out that I don't really give a monkeys about sniping/not sniping - all of the auctions I've not won, I wouldn't have paid the final price even if I'd known it in advance). The only thing I'd say, which may or may not be seen as a disagreement, is that we don't /know/ that the eBay fixed end-time model does - or does not - hurt sellers. Sure, sniping ups the ante in the last few seconds much of the time - but would it have gone higher with an extending auction? Until (if) eBay try it, we will never know... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jss at subatomix.com Mon Apr 28 13:33:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <35245.130.76.32.16.1051547492.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> References: <20030428053049.79545.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> <20030428161053.GA3980@subatomix.com> <35245.130.76.32.16.1051547492.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <20030428183820.GB3980@subatomix.com> On Monday, April 28, 2003, Mike wrote: > Not true! I can bid at 1 to 2 seconds left and no proxy bidding software > is going to have time to see my bid posted, download the new web page, > process the data, calculate a new bid and upload the new data, all withing > 1 second. See, you're talking practical. I was talking theoretical -- it's easier to argue my point when computers are infinitely fast. :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From allain at panix.com Mon Apr 28 14:15:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping References: <20030428053049.79545.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> <20030428161053.GA3980@subatomix.com> <35245.130.76.32.16.1051547492.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <001101c30dba$2764c720$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> No criticism to any individual intended - it's to this stupid thread. On and on about sniping. > I would bet monet that no person ever sees a bid placed > with 2 or 3 seconds left that has time to react and change > their bid. I would bet that many persons have tried things like this - I have. The adrenaline rush for many must be comparable to day trading or casino gambling, both activities that don't seem to me to be anything to be proud of, and need I say that they both tend to set up their practictioners for greater and greater losses. Perhaps the popularity of this thread just attests to the thrill of the eBay adrenaline rush. Realize what activities are mindless, and curb them. What I do: Know your limit, Bid your limit, Win or Lose, and be done with it. John A. From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Mon Apr 28 14:27:01 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: Colossus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: While surfing I came across this website: http://www.codesandciphers.org.uk/lorenz/rebuild.htm Many of you might already know about this site, but it was new for me. Those guys rebuilt the Colossus! Cool! Herbert From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Apr 28 16:51:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: Depressing realization... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EADBE6E.21530.8CF21F21@localhost> > So I pick up this spiffy complete II gs system the other night. > While testing it, I pull out some of my old Apple disks and find > zlink. > I hook up my old Everex 2400 modem, run zlink, type in ATDT and... > (pause) > There's nothing left to call. Hey, Tony, if you don't mind international calls, then there's still the CSS Base in Seeshaupt, a beautiful little vilage in the hills between the Starnberger See (yes, where the fairy tale King Ludwig died) and the Bavarian Alps. Some say this area is a bit outdated ... other just love the old flair :) +49/8801-2453 Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 28 17:33:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: Facit 4070 8 level Paper Tape Punch For Sale (Cambridge, UK) In-Reply-To: from "Alan Bain" at Apr 24, 3 02:39:16 pm Message-ID: > As part of an imposed old-hardware clear out, and the decision > on the grounds of space to stick to 5 level tape for which I > have a reader and printer, I've got a Facit 4070 paper tape > punch for sale. In working order, complete with chad box. You do realise that a 4070 will punch 5 level tape as well (in fact IIRC, the tape clamp spring will correctly hold 5, 6/7 or 8 level tape without adjustments). The only tape you can't do (without a replacement die assembly) is the typesetter tape. No, I don't need another 4070 -- I've got 3 of them already. They are very nice punches, and easy to keep going, though -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 28 17:33:39 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: ISA Expansion Box In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51277F9@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Apr 28, 3 09:10:44 am Message-ID: > I have one of these boxes. It appears that IBM took another PC case off the > assembly line, stuck in a power supply and a passive backplane. There are Apart from the front label, it _is_ a standard PC/XT case (8 slots). > two interface cards, one for the PC and one for the expansion box, connected > by a very stiff cable -- don't recall what's on them but probably buffering > ICs and the like. The cable is about 3/4" in diameter. It terminates in Yes, basically buffers for all the signals. The schematics are in the Options and Adapters TechRef. > D-shell connectors but I don't recall the pin count (probably D50). The It's a DC62 connector IIRC (62 pins in the same shell as a normal 37 pin connector). -tony From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 28 23:08:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030428191337.01a79530@slave> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Apr 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > The only thing I'd say, which may or may not be seen as a disagreement, is > that we don't /know/ that the eBay fixed end-time model does - or does not > - hurt sellers. Sure, sniping ups the ante in the last few seconds much of > the time - but would it have gone higher with an extending auction? Until > (if) eBay try it, we will never know... In my experience running automatically extended auctions, no. It tends to temper the bidding. Bidders know that they don't have any advantage waiting until the last minute to bid. There may be a psychological factor in waiting it out to see if the bidding goes higher than what you were willing to pay before you submit your first bid, but for the most part it tends to result in a more, what I would call, realistic market value. Where sniping really jacks up the price is if the high bidder put in a really high maximum in order to secure their win. So say the item is at $1,000 up until the last 4 seconds, but the high bidder has a maximum bid of $5,000 and some sniper comes in with a bid of $2,999, the price will all of a sudden shoot up $2,000. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Apr 28 23:39:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: FS/FT Items Message-ID: I'm looking for either QBUS parts, or $5 + shipping for each of the following.. Trying to clean out my room before I have to move in a few months. - SparcStation 20, 32MB ram, 1x50MHz proc, floppy, 2GB HDD. I have 2 of these to get rid of. - Macintosh IIfx with a pair of 16 channel A/D cards, and some sort of interface software on the drive. It was originally a part of a NMR system, and still has the software on it. Unfortunately, they decided to crush the instrumentation that hooked up to the I/O cards to do the NMR stuff. Has 8MB ram and (I think) a 120MB hdd. - Macintosh Classic II. 80MB HDD, not sure on amount of ram. - Macintosh Plus 1MB - Macintosh Quadra 700, 16MB ram, 230MB HDD. - Mac-plus style keyboards and mice (4pin RJ11 keyboard, DE9 mouse) - PS/2 Model 70, with 6MB ram and an 80MB hard drive. I have at least two to get rid of, but need to find where I stuffed the ram first... - 2 Full-height 50pin centronics SCSI enclosures - HP 9000 model 715/50, I think it has 32MB ram. - IBM RS/6000 7011 Model 220 with 32MB ram, 400MB+ HDD, 2.88MB FDD, Gt1x framebuffer Now, what I'm looking for in trade: + Small-ish (can be lifted by 2 people) PERTEC or SCSI 9 track tape drive, that is manual/autoloading. I don't really want one that's slot load, I rather be able to see it spinning (and possibly manually load it). I use to have one, but it died, and I'd like to get a 'new' one. This would be worth a few things from the above, and I'd probably be willing to pay some money for it. + QBUS PERTEC card. + QBUS RAM card for a PDP-11/23, 128kW or better. + RLV12 + QBUS ethernet card that works with PDP-11 OS's. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Apr 29 00:14:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c30e0d$dadf3210$dd3ecd18@D73KSM11> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 10:57 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: eBay sniping > > > On Mon, 28 Apr 2003, Mike wrote: > > > I would bet monet that no person ever sees a bid placed with 2 or 3 > > seconds left that has time to react and change their bid. > > How much monet? > One clod. From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Apr 29 00:26:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: FS/FT Items References: Message-ID: <000e01c30e0e$bd05a2a0$0500fea9@game> Any other information on the IIfx with the a/d cards such as brand and model number? Any manuals or cables? Im in Ohio (44509 zip) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:43 AM Subject: FS/FT Items > I'm looking for either QBUS parts, or $5 + shipping for each of the > following.. Trying to clean out my room before I have to move in a few > months. > > - SparcStation 20, 32MB ram, 1x50MHz proc, floppy, 2GB HDD. > I have 2 of these to get rid of. > > - Macintosh IIfx with a pair of 16 channel A/D cards, and some sort > of interface software on the drive. It was originally a part of a > NMR system, and still has the software on it. Unfortunately, they > decided to crush the instrumentation that hooked up to the I/O cards > to do the NMR stuff. Has 8MB ram and (I think) a 120MB hdd. > > - Macintosh Classic II. 80MB HDD, not sure on amount of ram. > > - Macintosh Plus 1MB > > - Macintosh Quadra 700, 16MB ram, 230MB HDD. > > - Mac-plus style keyboards and mice (4pin RJ11 keyboard, DE9 mouse) > > - PS/2 Model 70, with 6MB ram and an 80MB hard drive. I have at least two > to get rid of, but need to find where I stuffed the ram first... > > - 2 Full-height 50pin centronics SCSI enclosures > > - HP 9000 model 715/50, I think it has 32MB ram. > > - IBM RS/6000 7011 Model 220 with 32MB ram, 400MB+ HDD, 2.88MB FDD, > Gt1x framebuffer > > Now, what I'm looking for in trade: > > + Small-ish (can be lifted by 2 people) PERTEC or SCSI 9 track tape drive, > that is manual/autoloading. I don't really want one that's slot load, > I rather be able to see it spinning (and possibly manually load it). I > use to have one, but it died, and I'd like to get a 'new' one. This > would be worth a few things from the above, and I'd probably be willing > to pay some money for it. > > + QBUS PERTEC card. > > + QBUS RAM card for a PDP-11/23, 128kW or better. > > + RLV12 > > + QBUS ethernet card that works with PDP-11 OS's. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Apr 29 00:29:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <000801c30e0d$dadf3210$dd3ecd18@D73KSM11> References: <000801c30e0d$dadf3210$dd3ecd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Apr 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > How much monet? > > > > One clod. > That was very,very,very,very BAD! Damn! that was baaaad! Took me a couple of seconds. Undoubtedly one of the most wickedly creative multi-puns ever seen on this List. My ear is off to you, sir. Cheerz Joghn From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Tue Apr 29 00:30:48 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:19 2005 Subject: eBay sniping Message-ID: >> On Mon, 28 Apr 2003, Mike wrote: >> >> > I would bet monet that no person ever sees a bid placed with 2 or 3 >> > seconds left that has time to react and change their bid. >> >> How much monet? >> > >One clod. I saw an interesting thing happen a couple of years ago, with *silly* consequences for those involved. From drido at optushome.com.au Tue Apr 29 03:17:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:20 2005 Subject: FS/FT Items In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030429181555.011726d4@mail.optushome.com.au> At 05:27 PM 4/29/03, you wrote: >I'm looking for either QBUS parts, or $5 + shipping for each of the >following.. Trying to clean out my room before I have to move in a few >months. >- IBM RS/6000 7011 Model 220 with 32MB ram, 400MB+ HDD, 2.88MB FDD, > Gt1x framebuffer I'd like this. I've got a Dilog DQ130 Qbus card (pertec controller AFAIK) and a Texas Instruments TM10010 Qbus RAM card (128k x 18 bit I thnk), but I doubt it's worth shipping the RS/6000 to Australia :( From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 29 05:00:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:20 2005 Subject: I live in NYC and have no space for my old Mac... (fwd) Message-ID: See below. Reply to original sender. Reply-to: SYoshioka7@aol.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:48:24 -0400 From: SYoshioka7@aol.com To: chrisa@harvestworks.org, pencilbox@pencilbox.org, bakermusic@mindspring.com, donations@worldcomputerexchange.org, donate@vintage.org Subject: I live in NYC and have no space for my old Mac... Hi, My name is Stacy Yoshioka and I have a very old Mac computer, monitor and printer that I no longer have space for. I have purchased a PC laptop about a year ago and since I live in a cramped NYC apartment I cannot store it any longer and have finally transfered all of the old info to a PC disk. Anyway, it is a Performa 6360 and the printer is a Style Writer II. The entire system still works and I have the manuals and backup software. I also installed about 100 mb of extra memory when I got it. If any of your organizations could use this machine please let me know. I saved so much money to buy it when I was in college that I can't see just throwing it away. I do not have a car in the city so if any of your organizations pick them up or are easy to get to please let me know as well. Thank You, Stacy Yoshioka Stacy Jin Yoshioka 126 East 103rd Street #27 New York, New York 10029 212-289-2242 646-245-3860 SYoshioka7@aol.com -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Apr 29 10:58:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:20 2005 Subject: FS/FT Items (update) In-Reply-To: <000e01c30e0e$bd05a2a0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Any other information on the IIfx with the a/d cards such as brand and model > number? Any manuals or cables? Crap. Those are 16-channel digital I/O cards, not A/D cards. > > - Macintosh IIfx with a pair of 16 channel A/D cards, and some sort > > of interface software on the drive. It was originally a part of a > > NMR system, and still has the software on it. Unfortunately, they > > decided to crush the instrumentation that hooked up to the I/O cards > > to do the NMR stuff. Has 8MB ram and (I think) a 120MB hdd. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Apr 29 11:27:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:20 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Message Board Message-ID: Hello, I would like to announce a new message board that I have created in support of our community. During the past couple of years I?ve been participating as a member of this mailing list as well as several related ones. I have made a few observations that I felt needed addressing including: - the need for a better way to advertise items or help (wanted or offered) - the ability to support off topic conversations along with on- topic ones without burdening those not interested in one or the other - the ability to easily search archives for topics of interest - the ability to keep ?threads? of discussion together - the ability to categorize these threads for easier research With the above in mind I decided to experiment with a web based bulletin board (a long way from my days with RBBS and WWIV). Over the past month or so I have changed my web hosting service for www.vintage- computer.com in order to work with a hosting company that could support the new forum I was considering. Over this past weekend I finished the initial phases of moving my site and configuring the boards. The result is now available for use at www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum. A link is also available from my www.vintage-computer.com front page. Since my web hosting has been recently moved the new DNS information may not have completely propagated yet. If you get an error trying to access the above address or if the message board link from my home page refers you to an ezBoard page, please try back a little later. There are two things that I would like to stress about the new forums. First, I don?t envision them as a threat to this mailing list or the community that supports it. I see it as another tool in our toolbox (or toy in our toy chest) to enhance our enjoyment of our hobby. Second, although I set up these forums I consider them to be ?ours? in as broad a sense as that is possible. I am not only willing, but anxious to have others participate in these forums as administrators, moderators and contributors. Volunteers are welcome and operators are standing by! Hopefully if you are reading this you will see your way clear to popping over for a visit and supporting this effort with whatever you are willing to offer, be that participation, suggestions or criticism. Again, this is our community and I will do my best to make these forums reflect that. Thank you and best regards, Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Apr 29 11:32:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: FS/FT Items - Mac IIfx In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, TeoZ wrote: > > > Any other information on the IIfx with the a/d cards such as brand and model > > number? Any manuals or cables? > > Those are 16-channel digital I/O cards, not A/D cards. The cards are made by National Instruments, and they still have software available for them on their web site. Also, the IIfx has a 160MB hard drive not a 120MB one like I said originally. > > > - Macintosh IIfx with a pair of 16 channel A/D cards, and some sort > > > of interface software on the drive. It was originally a part of a > > > NMR system, and still has the software on it. Unfortunately, they > > > decided to crush the instrumentation that hooked up to the I/O cards > > > to do the NMR stuff. Has 8MB ram and (I think) a 120MB hdd. > > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Apr 29 12:05:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: Magtapes - 9 Track Available Message-ID: <3EAEB080.DC203CFA@compsys.to> Are you interested in magtape just for the media [has old National Library of Medicine stuff? (this would be at least another box) ================================================== I have been advised that the above tapes are available, probably about at least a dozen tapes for either the contents or for scratch. The cost will be for shipping. They are in New York City, but may need to first be sent to Buffalo. If they are of interest, please advise and I will try and find out what arrangements can be made. I might also be looking to have 3 or 4 magtapes copied to a TK50 (or other suitable media) and might need some help in this regard. They have RT-11 file labels if that is helpful information, so probably RT-11 would be needed to make to copies. Eventually, I would like to copy the contents to a CD. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ipscone at msdsite.com Tue Apr 29 13:16:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: Yet another forum - MSDSite.com In-Reply-To: <3EAEB080.DC203CFA@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3EAE5E8F.11155.150B0E@localhost> I wanted to let everyone know that I have a group of forums (70 total) that cover a variety of areas that I'm interested in. One group of forums is dedicated to Vintage Computers and Calculators. They are at: http://www.msdsite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=17 The main entry to all forums is at: http://www.msdsite.com/index.php These have been up and running for a couple of years but I have not advertized them much. Only those that stumble across them know about them, for the most part. My forums cover areas of interest of calculators, computers, military, Marine Corps, competitive shooting, firearms, and even the war on terrorism. There are currently over 400 registered members and we need more. Feel free to stop by and browse. I can start any forum of interest within any of these groups. Just ask. Thanks, From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Apr 29 13:32:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: 256x4 80NS or faster Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030429113643.0516fcc0@mail.zipcon.net> anyone have any of these floating around? I can't believe I gave 'em all away and now I need to populate a laserjet IIID memory board :( From kth at srv.net Tue Apr 29 14:08:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: Magtapes - 9 Track Available References: <3EAEB080.DC203CFA@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3EAED54B.7040009@srv.net> Jerome H. Fine wrote: >Are you interested in magtape just for the media [has old National >Library >of Medicine stuff? (this would be at least another box) >================================================== >I have been advised that the above tapes are available, probably about >at least a dozen tapes for either the contents or for scratch. The cost > >will be for shipping. They are in New York City, but may need to >first be sent to Buffalo. > >If they are of interest, please advise and I will try and find out >what arrangements can be made. > >I might also be looking to have 3 or 4 magtapes copied to a TK50 >(or other suitable media) and might need some help in this regard. >They have RT-11 file labels if that is helpful information, so probably >RT-11 would be needed to make to copies. Eventually, I would like >to copy the contents to a CD. > > > If you do an exact copy of the tapes, the directory format doesn't matter during the transfer. The only thing you need to worry about is that the destination device has enough space available for the copy. I have copied many tapes for several OS's using just a TSV05 and TK50 drive using RSTS/E. I used a program called TAPCOP, where TCOPY is another name for it. There are several other copy programs (some using the same name). This is a Basic+ program that copies the tape to the disk, then copies to the other tape (which is actually much faster than trying to go tape-to-tape due to many reasons). I can send you a copy if you want it, but it originally came from a Decus tape. The directory structure only becomes important when you want to access the data. If you wanted to see individual files, than it would become important. From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Apr 29 16:41:00 2003 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: 256x4 80NS or faster References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030429113643.0516fcc0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <00f001c30e97$bb771520$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Exactly what type do you want ? Dual in Line packages ? What amount ? Sipke de Wal -------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx -------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Reed" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:37 PM Subject: 256x4 80NS or faster > anyone have any of these floating around? I can't believe I gave 'em all > away and now I need to populate a laserjet IIID memory board :( From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 29 18:53:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: H89 disk formats? Message-ID: <200304292351.QAA17302@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I've been looking at a pile of disk that I'd collected over a period of years. Most are the typical 10 hard sectored disk, formatted in the same way as HDOS uses. In the pile, I found a few that are marked "format 96". These have the 10 plus index holes but they don't seem to be the normal format. When I attempt to read them, I can only read the first sector. All of the rest don't seem to read. Does anyone know what this was all about? Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 29 20:01:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: Me Too! Re: 256x4 80NS or faster In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030429113643.0516fcc0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030429205605.0f2fcf28@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Are you looking for ROMs or RAM? I don't know anything about what the printers use but it sounds like what you should be looking for are 256 K x 4 RAMs (44256s). If that's the case go to a surplus store or scrap place that carries old PC parts and check the video cards. A LOT of them used socketed 256k x 4 RAMs. I needed about 200 of them last year to fully populate my HP Viper cards and I picked up about 15 video cards in one store for less than $1 each and ended up with about 140 RAMs off of them. I'm looking for some blank 256 x4 TS 45ns PROMs to program up some new loader PROMs for the HP 1000s. I can use Signetics 82S129 or equivelents. Here's a list of others that I believe will work. Signetics MMI TI Harris Raytheon AMD National Intel --------- --- -- ------ -------- --- -------- ----- TS 82S129 (50ns) 6301-1 24S10 7611-5 29661 27S21 74S287 3621 82S129A(27ns) 63S141 - 7611A - 27S21A - - Intersil Fujitsu -------- ------- 7052 Joe At 11:37 AM 4/29/03 -0700, you wrote: >anyone have any of these floating around? I can't believe I gave 'em all >away and now I need to populate a laserjet IIID memory board :( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 29 20:03:27 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: H89 disk formats? In-Reply-To: <200304292351.QAA17302@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030429205958.11873048@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Just as a guess I'd say that they're 96 TPI 80 track disks instead of 40 track disks. I don't know but I'm guessing that the HK normally used 40 track disks but that those disks came from someone had a mod to use 80 track disks. That was pretty common on a lot of the early computers. I did that to my Sanyo and I had a Kaypro that had the Advent Turbo ROM and 80 track drives installed. Joe At 04:51 PM 4/29/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > I've been looking at a pile of disk that I'd >collected over a period of years. Most are the >typical 10 hard sectored disk, formatted in the >same way as HDOS uses. In the pile, I found a >few that are marked "format 96". These have the >10 plus index holes but they don't seem to be >the normal format. When I attempt to read them, >I can only read the first sector. All of the rest >don't seem to read. Does anyone know what this >was all about? >Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 29 20:22:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: H89 disk formats? Message-ID: <200304300120.SAA17403@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Joe This would explain why I can't read other tracks but doesn't explain why I can only read the first sector of track 0. When I get a chance, I'll put a scope to the signals to see if it also has some changes in sector length or something. The 96 does match to the 80 track drives as 96 tpi. This does make sense. I don't really know if it actually read the first sector completely correct though. It may have read the data and then failed the checksum, if the sector data was twice as long, it would still read the first 256 bytes correctly. Putting one scope channel on the sync output and the other on the data should make it clearer what they are. Having double length sectors would make sense with twice the tracks. This would require less modifications to HDOS in things like directories. Dwight >From: Joe > >Just as a guess I'd say that they're 96 TPI 80 track disks instead of 40 track disks. I don't know but I'm guessing that the HK normally used 40 track disks but that those disks came from someone had a mod to use 80 track disks. That was pretty common on a lot of the early computers. I did that to my Sanyo and I had a Kaypro that had the Advent Turbo ROM and 80 track drives installed. > > Joe > >At 04:51 PM 4/29/03 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi >> I've been looking at a pile of disk that I'd >>collected over a period of years. Most are the >>typical 10 hard sectored disk, formatted in the >>same way as HDOS uses. In the pile, I found a >>few that are marked "format 96". These have the >>10 plus index holes but they don't seem to be >>the normal format. When I attempt to read them, >>I can only read the first sector. All of the rest >>don't seem to read. Does anyone know what this >>was all about? >>Dwight From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Apr 29 23:45:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030430004149.05c35ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Here's some Next Stations some of you might be interested in. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2725937944&category=1247 No Afffiliation. From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 29 23:53:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: H89 disk formats? In-Reply-To: <200304292351.QAA17302@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > I've been looking at a pile of disk that I'd > collected over a period of years. Most are the > typical 10 hard sectored disk, formatted in the > same way as HDOS uses. In the pile, I found a > few that are marked "format 96". These have the > 10 plus index holes but they don't seem to be > the normal format. When I attempt to read them, > I can only read the first sector. All of the rest > don't seem to read. Does anyone know what this > was all about? > Dwight Dwight, I would assume that they were done on a 96tpi floppy drive. - don From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 30 00:00:01 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: Toshiba Memo Note? Message-ID: <20030430045844.8484.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, anyone have info on an early 1980s gadget called the Toshiba Memo Note? It was called the LC-1018MN in Japan. The only data I've found so far is from the site www.calculators.de, and I found some obscure info about its use as a crypto platform. But I want more! Thanks all, Evan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Apr 30 00:32:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: D/A Chips Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030430012859.05c326a0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> These chips interesting to anyone? 10pc LOT RARE PMI D/A CONVERTER ic's DAC88EX http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2525988961 No Affiliation. From wrb at wrbuckley.com Wed Apr 30 00:45:00 2003 From: wrb at wrbuckley.com (William R. Buckley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: Blow or Suck - Which is Best? In-Reply-To: <1051527879.7297.6.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <003c01c30da6$a287b200$992cfea9@softnerdhqpo000> In my years as a consulting software developer, I had the opportunity to work with a small firm Unit Design. They manufacture small scale circuit board production equipment, to include defluxing cleaners. These cleaners were built of standard home dishwashers, with added and removed components to support the new application. The cleaning solvents were typical surfactants mixed with deionized water. The customers for this kind of equipment were most commonly those which build small batches of military hardware; one-off kinds of builds. If I get the spelling correct, one kind of cleaner used was *keizen* though as I recall it was a bit volatile and so difficult to use. Generally however, we were quite able to use more common household or industrial surfactants to clean circuit boards without damage. For the purposes of list readers, I expect that a dish washer will work fine. The one question I have (caveat) concerns proximity of cleaned boards to the heating element in the sump. We did not have problems even with seven, eight, and nine layer boards but, the boards of PDP and similarly aged boards may be more delicate. What say any readers who actually use a dish washer for cleaning of older boards? William R. Buckley > David Holland said: > FWIW, YMMV/Etc... > > This is what I do, when I find some nice bit of old hardware > that's full > of dust. > > Use a nice _SOFT_ 1" paintbrush, and canned air. > > The canned air doesn't seem to have enough pressure to cause any real > damage, (be careful however not to turn the can over, so the liquid > comes out.) The paintbrush knocks all the dust loose anyways, so it > doesn't take much to get rid of it either. > > There are rumors of folks here using a dish washer, but I'm not brave > enough to try that. (Soap and water on the plastic parts works pretty > well though.) > > On Sat, 2003-04-26 at 17:46, Lee Courtney wrote: > > I need to remove several years of accumulated dust and > > debris from the inside of an HP3000 Series 40. I will > > remove the boards and vacuum the inside of the cabinet > > (size of a washing machine), but was wondering what is > > the best way to remove dust and dirt from the PC cards > > in a way that will not damage them - mechanically or > > electrically. > > > > My default would be to clean with a shop vacuum, but I > > was wondering if that might cause static damage to the > > components on the board? Would a high pressure air > > compressor be a better choice? From c.morris at townsqr.com Wed Apr 30 00:46:56 2003 From: c.morris at townsqr.com (Dr. Charles E. Morris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: phones and Dictaphone References: <20030428170001.20993.81728.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <005801c30dad$72bb0bb0$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> It was a very popular song around 1981. Tommy Tutone's biggest hit, 867-5309 (Jenny). She was the young lady whose number was written ..."on the wall, For a good time, call..." > There was an 867-5309, which matches the name of a song that was popular > some years ago. > reported occasional calls from strangers asking for Jenny (who, I guess, was > a character in the song). > Jeffrey Sharp I've never seen a computer made by them either. Only thing I know is a bad joke: Doctor 1: "Can I borrow your Dictaphone?" Doctor 2: "No, just dial with your finger like everyone else" 8^P -Charles > Speaking of cleaning out the closets. I was helping clean out some stuff from the estate of a deceased writer of computer and electronics books and found a work book for a CPM course that Dictaphone taught. I didn't know that Dictaphone even made CPM computers. This is a thin book and it's pretty elementary but it might be of interst to someone that has a Dictaphone machine or is a CPM collector. > Joe From hansp at citem.org Wed Apr 30 00:48:55 2003 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: Colossus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EAD83BE.3040702@citem.org> The Design Fort DTP wrote: > While surfing I came across this website: > > http://www.codesandciphers.org.uk/lorenz/rebuild.htm > > Many of you might already know about this site, but it was new for me. > Those guys rebuilt the Colossus! Cool! Well here are some more links in the same vien: http://www.computer50.org/mark1/index.html which links to pages about the rebuild of the Manchester Mark I http://www.jharper.demon.co.uk/bombe1.htm the page about the ongoing project to rebuild the bombes, code breaking machines at Bletchley Park where the Colossus was built and rebuilt. http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/ : the official Bletchley Park web site -- hbp From sieler at allegro.com Wed Apr 30 00:50:47 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: Cromemcos may be available in Michigan In-Reply-To: <177FE558-784A-11D7-84D9-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <3EAD5FEC.19579.15D80ECD@localhost> Hi, I received the following a couple of days ago. All I know is below, contact Carl, not me! > From: "Carr Baldwin" ... > I have several Cromemco S100 bus computers, a couple of C10s and at > least one 3102 terminal. As far as I know they are all operable. They > are going to the dump next week if no one wants them. He's in Marquette, Michigan -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Apr 30 00:52:37 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: WTD: Qualstar 3412s or other Quad 9-track References: Message-ID: <000b01c30dfb$5af42d10$6500a8c0@starship1> Anyone have one available for a low and decent price, I prefer the front loaders and I need something with Quad Density as I've got varying tapes from 800,1600 and 6250 that I need to read. I currently have a Qualstar 3404s which only does 1600/3200, if anyone is interested in it or wants to do a trade plus $$$ I'd love an M4 9914 but I doubt anyone is willing to part with one cheap. Curt From ReCarDeaux at aol.com Wed Apr 30 00:54:25 2003 From: ReCarDeaux at aol.com (ReCarDeaux@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:21 2005 Subject: Inquiry about Classic Computers Collectors List Message-ID: <109.22f7a995.2bde2809@aol.com> To Whom It May Concern: From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Apr 30 00:56:18 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Mark Tapley > Sent: 24 April 2003 17:05 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming > > > All, > Got this from the guy in Houston who supplied the VAX VLC machines. > Contact him (best) or me if you are interested. > I'd love a VT103 but I guess shipping to the UK would be a bit prohibitive! My gf's coming over to the US in August but the last time she brought something home for me (TRS80 MIII) some baggage 'handlers' forgot that glass breaks when its dropped :( cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From rgill at innocor.com Wed Apr 30 00:58:19 2003 From: rgill at innocor.com (Randy Gill) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: replacement for TIL311 display Message-ID: <012701c30e56$5b3a4e70$c302010a@innocor.com> Hello; I just noticed your e-mail on the web. I wanted to inform you that Innocor manufactures a direct, drop-in replacement for the TIL311 (INL0397-1) featuring less power, brighter LEDs, lower cost and higher reliability. Pls find the link to our datasheet. If you have any requirements, pls let me know. Regards; Randy http://www.innocor.com/documents/inl0397_v2_iss2.pdf ******************************************* Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:00:23 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Joe > Subject: Re: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org At 06:01 PM 1/1/03 -0600, you wrote: >On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Joe wrote: >> At 10:51 PM 12/31/02 -0600, you wrote: >> >On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: >> > >> > > Does anyone know of another display that can be substituted for the >> > > TIL 306/307? Here is a data sheet for the 306/307 in case you have a >> > > question about it, . >> > >> > I don't know of an exact replacement offhand, but I thought these were >> > still in production? >> >> Are they? I think mine are about 25 years old. FWIW I went looking for >> some at a large local surplus store and found one that I think is >> prototype. It's built out of clear material instead of red and is marked >> TIXL306 and is date coded 7204 (almost 31 years old!). I went through >> several boxs and THOUSANDs of displays and only found one standard 306 >> and the one prototype. >> >> > How many of these displays are you looking for? I believe I still have >> > a few in my parts bin... >> >> In addition to the one that I found in the store I need three of them. >> Mine were in sockets and the dissimilar metal corrosion has eaten off at >> least one leg off of each of mine. > >Oops, I have TIL311s, not the 306. I was thinking that the 311s were still >in production. I guess the 311 with a built-in BCD controller must still >be useful in current products. The 306/307s also have built in BCD decoders. I've been trying to find a data sheet on the 311 so that I can see what the difference is between it and the 306/307. ******************** From wrb at wrbuckley.com Wed Apr 30 01:01:00 2003 From: wrb at wrbuckley.com (William R. Buckley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: Blow or Suck - Which is Best? In-Reply-To: <1051527879.7297.6.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <004f01c30ed8$9ba2fa20$992cfea9@softnerdhqpo000> In my years as a consulting software developer, I had the opportunity to work with a small firm Unit Design. They manufacture small scale circuit board production equipment, to include defluxing cleaners. These cleaners were built of standard home dishwashers, with added and removed components to support the new application. The cleaning solvents were typical surfactants mixed with deionized water. The customers for this kind of equipment were most commonly those which build small batches of military hardware; one-off kinds of builds. If I get the spelling correct, one kind of cleaner used was *keizen* though as I recall it was a bit volatile and so difficult to use. Generally however, we were quite able to use more common household or industrial surfactants to clean circuit boards without damage. For the purposes of list readers, I expect that a dish washer will work fine. The one question I have (caveat) concerns proximity of cleaned boards to the heating element in the sump. We did not have problems even with seven, eight, and nine layer boards but, the boards of PDP and similarly aged boards may be more delicate. What say any readers who actually use a dish washer for cleaning of older boards? William R. Buckley > David Holland said: > FWIW, YMMV/Etc... > > This is what I do, when I find some nice bit of old hardware > that's full > of dust. > > Use a nice _SOFT_ 1" paintbrush, and canned air. > > The canned air doesn't seem to have enough pressure to cause any real > damage, (be careful however not to turn the can over, so the liquid > comes out.) The paintbrush knocks all the dust loose anyways, so it > doesn't take much to get rid of it either. > > There are rumors of folks here using a dish washer, but I'm not brave > enough to try that. (Soap and water on the plastic parts works pretty > well though.) > > On Sat, 2003-04-26 at 17:46, Lee Courtney wrote: > > I need to remove several years of accumulated dust and > > debris from the inside of an HP3000 Series 40. I will > > remove the boards and vacuum the inside of the cabinet > > (size of a washing machine), but was wondering what is > > the best way to remove dust and dirt from the PC cards > > in a way that will not damage them - mechanically or > > electrically. > > > > My default would be to clean with a shop vacuum, but I > > was wondering if that might cause static damage to the > > components on the board? Would a high pressure air > > compressor be a better choice? From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 30 01:15:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: Cromemcos may be available in Michigan In-Reply-To: <3EAD5FEC.19579.15D80ECD@localhost> References: <3EAD5FEC.19579.15D80ECD@localhost> Message-ID: <3EAF6980.8000209@internet1.net> Stan Sieler wrote: > Hi, > > I received the following a couple of days ago. > All I know is below, contact Carl, not me! > > >>From: "Carr Baldwin" > > ... > >>I have several Cromemco S100 bus computers, a couple of C10s and at >>least one 3102 terminal. As far as I know they are all operable. They >>are going to the dump next week if no one wants them. > > > He's in Marquette, Michigan Wow, Marquette? That's waaay up there! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Apr 30 06:59:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: Cromemcos may be available in Michigan In-Reply-To: <3EAD5FEC.19579.15D80ECD@localhost> References: <177FE558-784A-11D7-84D9-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030430075315.026da010@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Stan Sieler may have mentioned these words: >Hi, > >I received the following a couple of days ago. >All I know is below, contact Carl, not me! > > > From: "Carr Baldwin" >... > > I have several Cromemco S100 bus computers, a couple of C10s and at > > least one 3102 terminal. As far as I know they are all operable. They > > are going to the dump next week if no one wants them. > >He's in Marquette, Michigan I'm not big into Cromemcos... but I'm relatively close (3 hours drive) and may be able to snag these if someone(s) are interested... Lemme know the size of these rascals if you want 'em, so I know if I need to take a trailer... I have a 6.5 foot (2 meter) bed on my 1/2 ton pickup; would I need more? Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 30 08:57:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: OT: iMac References: <3EAE5E8F.11155.150B0E@localhost> Message-ID: <019501c30f20$00c6bb20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I was helping my Dad put some things to the local Goodwill today (good source of Monitors!) and one of the things there was an iMac for $200. I played around with it for a couple of minutes because it was displaying all of it's dialogs in french. This leads to two questions: 1./ is there a buried internationalizing menu somewhere, IE, could it be switched over to english? 2./ Anybody make PC drivers for the great USB keyboard and mouse? John A. From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Apr 30 09:06:00 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: OT: iMac In-Reply-To: <019501c30f20$00c6bb20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3EAE5E8F.11155.150B0E@localhost> <019501c30f20$00c6bb20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20030430140405.GA8423@uiuc.edu> John Allain said: > > 2./ Anybody make PC drivers for the great USB keyboard and mouse? As far as I know, they're just a standard USB kb/mouse that conform to the USB HID spec. So, they should Just Work, as long as the PC in question supports USB input devices. Of course, YMMV :) - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 30 09:10:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: OT: iMac Message-ID: >I was helping my Dad put some things to the local Goodwill today (good >source of Monitors!) and one of the things there was an iMac for $200. >I played around with it for a couple of minutes because it was displaying >all of it's dialogs in french. This leads to two questions: > > 1./ is there a buried internationalizing menu somewhere, > IE, could it be switched over to english? If it was OS X, then maybe (I know you can install other languages, I'm just not sure if you can switch between them once they are installed), but if it was previous to OS X, then no, not to the degree that you were seeing. Rather it must have had a French version of the OS installed. If you decide to buy it, let me know, I can get you a US-English copy of whatever OS version was installed. > 2./ Anybody make PC drivers for the great USB keyboard and mouse? My iMac USB keyboard and mouse worked on Win2k by just plugging them in. They also worked on my PlayStation 2 (well, at least the keyboard did, I don't remember if I plugged the mouse in to it or not). Of course, I lost the right click ability in Windows while using my iMac puck mouse, but at least the mouse (and keyboard) worked without additional drivers. -chris From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Apr 30 09:13:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: OT: iMac In-Reply-To: <019501c30f20$00c6bb20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <92564A41-7B15-11D7-8AD6-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Hi John, Mouse and keyboard are standard USB. It will work on a PC just fine. If it has the hockey puck mouse, unless you have little hands, it hurts to use after awhile. Localization is done in seperate installs for OS 9 but can be changed for OS X. Rob On Wednesday, April 30, 2003, at 09:54 AM, John Allain wrote: > I was helping my Dad put some things to the local Goodwill today (good > source of Monitors!) and one of the things there was an iMac for $200. > I played around with it for a couple of minutes because it was > displaying > all of it's dialogs in french. This leads to two questions: > > 1./ is there a buried internationalizing menu somewhere, > IE, could it be switched over to english? > > 2./ Anybody make PC drivers for the great USB keyboard and mouse? > > John A. From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Apr 30 09:31:01 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: OT: iMac In-Reply-To: <019501c30f20$00c6bb20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from John Allain at "Apr 30, 3 09:54:21 am" Message-ID: <200304301441.HAA09164@floodgap.com> > I was helping my Dad put some things to the local Goodwill today (good > source of Monitors!) and one of the things there was an iMac for $200. > I played around with it for a couple of minutes because it was displaying > all of it's dialogs in french. This leads to two questions: > > 1./ is there a buried internationalizing menu somewhere, > IE, could it be switched over to english? Depends on what version of MacOS it's running. If it's OS 9 or lower, I suspect someone loaded a localized version of MacOS on it (i.e., no), but you can change this in OS X (it's under System Preferences). > 2./ Anybody make PC drivers for the great USB keyboard and mouse? Just regular USB devices IIRC, although obviously if the Windows special keys are important to you ... :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Eeny, Meeny, Jelly Beanie, the spirits are about to speak! -- Bullwinkle --- From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 30 10:37:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4010 graphics terminal In-Reply-To: <3EAC401A.4090503@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20030430153558.34237.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- J Forbes wrote: > I got my Tek 4010 powered up and running. See the link in my sig for > some pics and more info. Nice job. I used to use a 4010 as a console on a pair of PDP-8/ms at Ohio State - this is the rig with the rack of Diablo drives and the dual-ported controller I mentioned recently. I still have a stack of printouts from a Textronix hardcopy unit that was attached to it. I remember it was more cumbersome to use than a VT52 or VT220, owing to the storage nature of the scope. When at the OS/8 dot prompt and typing commands, IIRC, I had to hit some key or switch to clear the screen or it would wrap around and overlay older text. Long directory listings were easily mangled. Still, that particular color of green still takes me back to those days. I don't remember if a ^L or some such would clear the screen when running applications. I don't think I ever attempted ADVENT on it. :-) But congrats on getting your working. -ethan P.S. - nice clocks. If I had some play money lying around, I'd consider getting a CRT clock - as a kit, naturally. It would be a nice addition to my growing shelf of binary clocks. The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From jss at subatomix.com Wed Apr 30 10:46:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: Inquiry about Classic Computers Collectors List In-Reply-To: <109.22f7a995.2bde2809@aol.com> References: <109.22f7a995.2bde2809@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030430155149.GA12878@subatomix.com> On Monday, April 28, 2003, ReCarDeaux@aol.com wrote: > From 1977 to 1991, I worked for General Electric, Honeywell, Magnetic > Peripherals, Control Data, Imprimis, and Seagate. I am interested in > staying in touch with people/computers of that era. Is your list for me? > > Richard Oklahoma City, OK 73118 Email ReCarDeaux@aol.com I'm not exactly of that era (I'm 24), but I love machines that are. I'm also located in the OKC Metro. I live in Norman and work for a large company near Classen and Western. I have a medium-sized collection of mostly DEC PDP-11s, VAXen, and old Suns. I also help administrate this list. I think you would have an enjoyable time as a list member. There are two ways to subscribe. The first is cctalk, which is unmoderated and delivered immediately. The second is cctech, which is moderated for topic and delivered after an average delay of 12 hours. Please be aware that both share the same on-topic messages, so you should only subscribe to one of the two. Subscribing to both will get you nothing but duplicate messages. See our web site at: http://www.classiccmp.org/ It would be great to have someone else from my area on the list. AFAIK the closest existing subscriber is in Fort Worth. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Apr 30 11:09:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: A Vectrex Case goes for over $162 Message-ID: <017201c30f32$a07e7790$7208dd40@oemcomputer> This just for a empty case???? The machines itself goes for $5 to $25 at the thrifts here. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2723594245 From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 30 11:55:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:22 2005 Subject: A Vectrex Case goes for over $162 In-Reply-To: <017201c30f32$a07e7790$7208dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Keys wrote: > This just for a empty case???? The machines itself goes for $5 to $25 at the > thrifts here. You're lucky then. They're not exactly popping out of sidewalk cracks in the rest of the world. ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Wed Apr 30 12:57:00 2003 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Yet another forum - MSDSite.com In-Reply-To: <3EAE5E8F.11155.150B0E@localhost> References: <3EAE5E8F.11155.150B0E@localhost> Message-ID: <3EB00E17.2060209@dragonsweb.org> Mike Davis wrote: > I wanted to let everyone know that I have a group of forums (70 > total) that cover a variety of areas that I'm interested in. One > group of forums is dedicated to Vintage Computers and Calculators. > > They are at: > http://www.msdsite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=17 > > The main entry to all forums is at: > http://www.msdsite.com/index.php > > These have been up and running for a couple of years but I have not > advertized them much. Only those that stumble across them know about > them, for the most part. > > My forums cover areas of interest of calculators, computers, > military, Marine Corps, competitive shooting, firearms, and even the > war on terrorism. There are currently over 400 registered members > and we need more. > > Feel free to stop by and browse. I can start any forum of interest > within any of these groups. Just ask. > > Thanks, > > Great to see more vintage and classic forums being listed. The only thing I hate to see is the fragmentation. Usenet, FTN-style and Qwk networks on BBS'es, etc. used to be able to bring together scattered groups of people and individuals all over the world in a non-centralized, non-single-point-of-failure way. Web-based forums have really not tried to go there yet, in part because some are commercial and sometimes proprietary, with excessive numbers of PHB's and lawyers making policy decisions instead of the moderators and/or users, and because even the more independent forums are usually not up on stuff like RDF feeds or nntp backends, or aren't in a position to implement them with their hosting services. It's even harder now in the climate of DMCA and super DMCA's etc. that have an effect on way more than just retransmission of movies and audio CD's, at least when you're thinking of gating Yahoo groups or something. Compilation copyrights, TOS's, and all that bs. Nevertheless, I'm setting up a few FTN echos that will also be available by nntp, RDF, a web based-forum/news site, mailing lists, etc. if anyone is interested. It really helps everyone, though, especially in the long run. Different forums or forum hosts come and go, and so on. Look at what has happened to all the forums on the old online services. Most of that info is now just plain gone, or going fast, subject to being tossed out at any time. There is no Google archive for CIS, Delphi, the Source, etc. There is Google, for web sites, but again, there is just all that fragmenation which makes it hard to search for anything, and prevents discussions from happening to begin with. Jay, I'd be happy to work with you on gating the cc lists, if you're interested. Anyone else has any ideas on this, please chime in. I'm interested in what people think about the idea, and if anyone is doing anything like this already. Or just contact me directly. jbdigriz From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Apr 30 13:58:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Message Board Message-ID: Stan Sieler wrote: > Re: > > - the ability to support off topic conversations along with on- > > topic ones without burdening those not interested in one or the other > > - the ability to easily search archives for topics of interest > > - the ability to keep ?threads? of discussion together > > - the ability to categorize these threads for easier research > > That's all easily achievable with the current CC-TALK/CC-TECH. > ...just use a small prefix (from a small set of group endorsed ones). > > E.g.: OT: iraqi playing cards > where "OT" means "Off Topic" > I agree that we could implement that. It becomes a little more complicated when you try to generate the "group endorsed" prefixes and, once you do, keeping those in the public eye so folks use them. I like the idea, though, and think it would make the list easier to use. We already have OT, FS and FA of course. What other prefixes could we have? HW and SW? OS? PRG? HLP? > The inherent problem with the current vcforum web interface is the large > amount of extra work that people need to do to use it. With CC-TALK, all the > current posts are visible (one per line) on my screen. With vcforum, I > have to scroll the index web page to see what sections have new posts. > For each section with a new post, I have to click on it (deciding whether or > not to click-into-new-window or click-into-same-window), just to see the list > of topics in that section. Then I have to potentially scroll (not now, but > later, as more topics are posted) to see which topics have new posts ... > the end result it that it takes me 10 to 20 times longer to "catch up" as > it does with CC-TALK/CC-TECH. I don't think it's all that difficult to navigate although it is different from an email interface and there are disadvantages inherent in the greater flexibility. Once you get used to it, however, I think it takes just as much time to remain "caught up." On the other hand, you can eliminate topics you don't care about a lot easier by simply tracking messages in the forums you are most interested in. If you have no interest in Apple or Unix or the Off Topic discussions you need never visit those boards. CCTalk will always send you those messages. The thing that I like the most about a threaded message board is that you can view the entire discussion without any heavy manipulations. If I want to do that with the mail list I have to either visit the archives or use my mail program to sort on message header (assuming that hasn't been changed mid-thread). As of right now I have nearly 29,000 CCTalk messages in my outlook CCTalk folder. Even with a P4 2.4 and 1GB of RAM resorting that list is slow. > Could this be fixed? Yes. There could be an alternate presentation page which > lists all new posts, one per line ... sortable by topic or date- posted. > I should be able to quickly mark any I wish as "ignore" (aka "delete" in a > mail reader). However, most web based forums use the server to accomplish > updates, as opposed to doing more work just behind the glass (e.g., java > to collect the updates/markings/wishes and then upload the set to the server). > That's easier, of course, but clearly makes for more work and/or slower > response for the user. The "new posts since my last visit" link is my favorite on bigger boards. I hope that this new forum gets the kind of reception that makes that feature useful. If enough people sign up and start using the forums they'll hit "critical mass" which will make them that much more useful. > One person's comments, anyway :) Thanks, Stan! I do appreciate the feedback! Erik From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Wed Apr 30 14:27:01 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Valuing classic computers, was re: eBay sniping In-Reply-To: <20030428160134.GI1631@uiuc.edu> from "Dan Wright" at Apr 28, 2003 11:01:34 AM Message-ID: <200304301925.h3UJPVHX010027@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >Dan Wright says: > >Vintage Computer Festival said: >> >> > All these factors play a role and that is why I think eBay prices DO >> > reflect market value. eBay provides an almost perfect global marketplace >> > and in such an environment prices will fluctuate around a "market value". >> >> And again, I disagree, precisely because of the way that eBay auctions >> work, and the factors that can influence a final selling price. > >No matter what anyone says, it remains a fact that eBay DOES determine a fair >market value of an item -- the value of that item on the eBay market :) eBay >prices really have no relevance outside that scope, since any (most?) other >markets you'd be selling classiccmp items in (hamfest, local shop, etc) are >inherently local and/or specialized can't really be judged by the same >standards as eBay. There can be more then one fair market value for >something, dependant on the market in question. > This is something that the video game community has been grappling with for some time as well. More often than no however, the solution is to form some sort of official price guide (which this list should consider) based on a survey of Ebay prices. Ebay still presents a valuable resource, because it makes it much easyer to research selling prices of an item than calling all over and trying to keep track of sales without the net would be. Generally though, you want to report three prices in such a listing - a high, low, and average selling price for the item. >This is why it's SO annoying to hear someone try to bargain at a hamfest by >saying "but I could get 10 times that on ebay!" > >- Dan Wright I'm reminded of a story on the r.g.v.c. newsgroup of someone who came across someone like that at an indoor flea market. The seller was using it to justify their rediculously high price. The newgroup member had their laptop (equiped with cellular modem) with and proceeded to pull up an ebay auction for the item in question. He then began to showing it to people just outside the booth in question, in protest claiming the seller was of course a scam artist. The seller became irate, but security wouldn't do anything about it since the guy wasn't breaking any laws showing it to people. He also was not in the guy's booth area. The seller quickly closed down his booth and went home "for the day". From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Apr 30 15:46:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Misc. Stuff Available In-Reply-To: Norm & Beth Anheier "Misc. Stuff Available" (Apr 26, 8:08) References: Message-ID: <10304302136.ZM12874@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 26, 8:08, Norm & Beth Anheier wrote: > With all this talk of sniping and auctions, I have some more eclectic stuff > available for best offer or trade. I prefer Paypal. > > item 1. > I have a bunch (30?) of unused ACTEL PLCC FPGA ICs: > > A1010A-PLC86C > A1020A-PLC86C > A1280A-PQ160C > > I have the data book on these too. Hmm... That reminds me to ask: Does anyone have programming software for an Actel Activator (the original one, not an Activator 2)? I've got some devices, the Activator, and the I/O card for a PC, but have never found the software :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Apr 30 16:01:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: FS/FT Items In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 philip@awale.qc.ca wrote: > > On 29-Apr-2003 Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > I'm looking for either QBUS parts, or $5 + shipping for each of the > > following.. Trying to clean out my room before I have to move in a few > > months. > > > > - SparcStation 20, 32MB ram, 1x50MHz proc, floppy, 2GB HDD. > > I have 2 of these to get rid of. > > I'd be interested in one of these. Or have they be claimed already. > Could you give me an estimate on shipping to Québec (J0B 2C0) ? All of the sparcstation 20's have been taken. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Apr 30 16:05:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Misc. Stuff Available Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC1E@lif015.vtmerlin.com> Hmm... That reminds me to ask: Does anyone have programming software for an Actel Activator (the original one, not an Activator 2)? I've got some devices, the Activator, and the I/O card for a PC, but have never found the software :-( According to the help file the DOS software on the Actel site is for the Activator, not the Activator 2. It can be downloaded from here .. http://www.actel.com/products/tools/activator/index.html Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Apr 30 16:15:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Misc. Stuff Available Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC1F@lif015.vtmerlin.com> > Activator, not the Activator 2. That should read "Activator and the Activator 2." Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From claudew at videotron.ca Wed Apr 30 17:14:00 2003 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Auction fraud was the No. 1 Internet-related complaint recorded by the FTC last year. Message-ID: <001801c30f65$3c1309a0$c700a8c0@Laptop> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030430/ap_on_hi_te/internet_auctions_6 And thats only the "obvious" scams....think of all the "schilling" and other crap going on....Gave up on all this long time ago...for selling or buying... Later Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Wed Apr 30 17:21:00 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: FS/FT: VaxStation 3100 m38; C-128; Atari 800 In-Reply-To: <3EA937F7.6AC29623@comast.net> Message-ID: Did you ever find a buyer for your Atari 800? How about $10 plus shipping? On Friday, April 25, 2003, at 09:28 AM, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Well, the Vax and C-128 are sold, but the Atari is still available... > > David Woyciesjes wrote: >> >> Well, in the process of going through my computer room, and >> sorting >> stuff out to keep, and get rid of; I've decided to get rid of 3 of my >> classics. They've sat around for too long, going unused. So... >> > --- >> --- C-128 & Atari 800 >> - both have 5 1/4 floppy drives, power cables, joystick >> - Bunch of games and apps >> >> Best offer. Pick up in New Haven CT preferred (especially for >> the Vax). >> The C-128 and Atari should'nt be that bad to ship, though. >> Cash, money order, PayPal. For trade, I'm looking for SCSI & >> IDE HDDs >> over 4GB, true-parity memory, PC100/133 DIMMs, P-III 800 CPU, 19" >> monitor... >> >> -- > > -- > --- Dave WOyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 From marvin at rain.org Wed Apr 30 17:30:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Apple II APL Board? References: Message-ID: <3EB04E1D.CCFA3364@rain.org> I picked up a board for the Apple II this last weekend, and am curious if anyone knows anything about it? The silkscreening on the boards is "APL BOARD", and besides an EPROM (Fairchild M88518H?) with "APL" stamped on it, it has what appears to be a centronics printer cabled attached. From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Apr 30 17:36:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Apple II APL Board? In-Reply-To: <3EB04E1D.CCFA3364@rain.org> Message-ID: on 4/30/03 5:28 PM, Marvin Johnston at marvin@rain.org wrote: > I picked up a board for the Apple II this last weekend, and am curious > if anyone knows anything about it? The silkscreening on the boards is > "APL BOARD", and besides an EPROM (Fairchild M88518H?) with "APL" > stamped on it, it has what appears to be a centronics printer cabled > attached. Umm... Something to do with the APL character set, maybe? A character generator for a printer? -- Owen Robertson From marvin at rain.org Wed Apr 30 17:44:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Apple II APL Board? Message-ID: <3EB05158.B8276772@rain.org> I picked up a board for the Apple II this last weekend, and am curious if anyone knows anything about it? The silkscreening on the boards is "APL BOARD", and besides an EPROM (Fairchild M88518H?) with "APL" stamped on it, it has what appears to be a centronics printer cabled attached. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Apr 30 17:45:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Misc. Stuff Available In-Reply-To: "Davison, Lee" "RE: Misc. Stuff Available" (Apr 30, 22:03) References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC1E@lif015.vtmerlin.com> Message-ID: <10304302315.ZM12959@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 30, 22:03, Davison, Lee wrote: > According to the help file the DOS software on the Actel site is for the > Activator, not the Activator 2. > > It can be downloaded from here .. > > http://www.actel.com/products/tools/activator/index.html Thanks, Lee! Either I never found that, or I thought it was just for the Activator 2 (since that's what it implies). Anyway, I never downloaded it because it'll take a while at 64kb/s! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Wed Apr 30 17:52:00 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: FS/FT: VaxStation 3100 m38; C-128; Atari 800 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <238BB5D4-7B5F-11D7-BD4A-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Darn! I intended this to be a private message. Sorry! On Wednesday, April 30, 2003, at 06:26 PM, David Betz wrote: > Did you ever find a buyer for your Atari 800? How about $10 plus > shipping? From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Apr 30 18:00:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Yet another forum - MSDSite.com In-Reply-To: <3EB00E17.2060209@dragonsweb.org> References: <3EAE5E8F.11155.150B0E@localhost> <3EB00E17.2060209@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <20030430232829.GJ2136@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe James B. DiGriz, from writings of Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 01:55:35PM -0400: > Great to see more vintage and classic forums being listed. The only > thing I hate to see is the fragmentation. Yes, I know what you mean. If these new discussion groups each had some particular specialty, then I could see a reason why various classic computer collectors would use them. However, since they don't, I can't see the point in going through the extra work that it would take to access them. > Usenet, FTN-style and Qwk networks on BBS'es, etc. used to be able to > bring together scattered groups of people and individuals all over the > world in a non-centralized, non-single-point-of-failure way. Web-based > forums have really not tried to go there yet, in part because some are For one thing, web-based forums are a blasted nuisance to use. Browsers crash, and then an entire message is gone. If I can't use emacs, or some other text editor that's reasonably useful, such as vi, or even ed, then there's not much point to using a computer for writing. The multi-line text-area fields in forms on the 'web are nowhere near being a reasonable substitute for a good text editor. > commercial and sometimes proprietary, with excessive numbers of PHB's What's a PHB? Sounds like a nasty type of chemical to avoid. > and lawyers making policy decisions instead of the moderators and/or A good reason to avoid them. Is it just me, or does it give others the creeps when they see user agreements telling them that they can't have their first-ammendment guaranteed right to free speech on the 'net, whenever corporate droids, politically correct university bureaucrats and ambulance chasers (lawyers), etc. get involved with the 'net? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Apr 30 18:18:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: H89 disk formats? Message-ID: <200304302316.QAA18231@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Don Maslin" > >On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> Hi >> I've been looking at a pile of disk that I'd >> collected over a period of years. Most are the >> typical 10 hard sectored disk, formatted in the >> same way as HDOS uses. In the pile, I found a >> few that are marked "format 96". These have the >> 10 plus index holes but they don't seem to be >> the normal format. When I attempt to read them, >> I can only read the first sector. All of the rest >> don't seem to read. Does anyone know what this >> was all about? >> Dwight > >Dwight, I would assume that they were done on a 96tpi >floppy drive. > - don > Hi Don That is what I figured. I've been working on my serial bootstrap and transfer program. I'm able to read and write an image to the H89 but I'm still having issues getting the formatting to work. I copied some old code that I have in the Fig-Forth that I did but it is still missing something. I even went back and ran the Forth FORMAT and it works fine. I suspect there is some other initialization that I'm missing. I looked at one stretch of code and there is an operation that should always hang. Can't figure why the original works. It may be something connected to the timer interrupt that isn't normally there. I wish I'd made good notes when I did the original but this was one of my first computer projects, after working on my Poly88, and brain rot is now catching up with me. Once I get the format working, I can work on cleaning up the user interface. Looking at the 96 stuff is a little later on the list. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 30 18:30:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Inquiry about Classic Computers Collectors List In-Reply-To: <109.22f7a995.2bde2809@aol.com> from "ReCarDeaux@aol.com" at Apr 28, 3 02:45:29 am Message-ID: > To Whom It May Concern: > > >From 1977 to 1991, I worked for General Electric, Honeywell, Magnetic > Peripherals, Control Data, Imprimis, and Seagate. I am interested in staying > in touch with people/computers of that era. Is your list for me? I believe it is. The classiccmp list covers all machines 10 years old or older. So the period you're interested in is most certainly on-topic here. Now admittedly most of the messages from that period seem to concern home micros or DEC minis, but that's because that's what most of us have at home :-). Messages on other machines/peripherals are most certainly welcome. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 30 18:30:34 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Apr 28, 3 09:19:07 am Message-ID: > I'd love a VT103 but I guess shipping to the UK would be a bit prohibitive! > My gf's coming over to the US in August but the last time she brought > something home for me (TRS80 MIII) some baggage 'handlers' forgot that glass > breaks when its dropped :( I beleive the original packing box for the M3/M4 had the following printed on it : 'Do not drop, or CRT may implode' ... Mind you , I once had a CRT sent by Royal Mail (who are good at wrecking things!) in a cardboard box with _no_ packing -- just rattling around in the box, and it arrived in onve piece. How, I will never know... Is it time to repost the story of the 'Danger Implosives' sign :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 30 18:31:03 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Apple II APL Board? In-Reply-To: <3EB04E1D.CCFA3364@rain.org> from "Marvin Johnston" at Apr 30, 3 03:28:45 pm Message-ID: > I picked up a board for the Apple II this last weekend, and am curious > if anyone knows anything about it? The silkscreening on the boards is > "APL BOARD", and besides an EPROM (Fairchild M88518H?) with "APL" Fujitsu, I thionk, not Fairchild. > stamped on it, it has what appears to be a centronics printer cabled > attached. > For some reason, Epson printer interfaces were called APL boards (APLication boards?). I think this is just a standard Epson MX80 (etc) interface for the Apple, and has nothing to do with the language of that name. -tony From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Wed Apr 30 20:02:01 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Auction fraud was the No. 1 Internet-related complaint recorded by the FTC last year. In-Reply-To: <001801c30f65$3c1309a0$c700a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <20030501010059.94185.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> Using ebay or not, comes back, as always, to how risk adverse you are. People get screwed all the time in any type of transaction, with newspaper classified ads, newsgroup postings, fleamarkets, and, more generally, bad investment advice, home contractors, telemarketers, used car dealers, new car dealers, car repair shops, charities, life insurance etc etc... why oh why do people expect ebay auctions to be any different then any other transaction? People get screwed out of $3000 on a new car purchase and its just chalked up to a lifes lesson, they lose $200 on ebay and decide its time to shut down the internet. --- "Claude.W" wrote: > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030430/ap_on_hi_te/internet_auctions_6 > > And thats only the "obvious" scams....think of all > the "schilling" and other crap going on....Gave up > on all this long time ago...for selling or buying... > > Later > Claude > http://computer_collector.tripod.com The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Apr 30 20:30:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Auction fraud was the No. 1 Internet-related complaint recorded by the FTC last year. References: <20030501010059.94185.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003501c30f80$32a34fe0$0500fea9@game> Thats because most people are too stupid to realise they got ripped of when buying a car, and are too embarassed to say anything about it if they do figure it out. When you get ripped of from ebay its pretty obvious (the thing never shows up, not as desribed/pictured, doesnt work etc.) and people will complain loudly even if it only cost a few dollars. I still laugh at people who paid $300+ for a Playstation 2 box when they came out and found out that they only got the box, as was advertised. ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:00 PM Subject: Re: Auction fraud was the No. 1 Internet-related complaint recorded by the FTC last year. > Using ebay or not, comes back, as always, to how risk > adverse you are. People get screwed all the time in > any type of transaction, with newspaper classified > ads, newsgroup postings, fleamarkets, and, more > generally, bad investment advice, home contractors, > telemarketers, used car dealers, new car dealers, car > repair shops, charities, life insurance etc etc... why > oh why do people expect ebay auctions to be any > different then any other transaction? People get > screwed out of $3000 on a new car purchase and its > just chalked up to a lifes lesson, they lose $200 on > ebay and decide its time to shut down the internet. > > --- "Claude.W" wrote: > > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030430/ap_on_hi_te/internet_auctions_6 > > > > And thats only the "obvious" scams....think of all > > the "schilling" and other crap going on....Gave up > > on all this long time ago...for selling or buying... > > > > Later > > Claude > > http://computer_collector.tripod.com > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com From ejchapel at attbi.com Wed Apr 30 21:35:00 2003 From: ejchapel at attbi.com (Ed Chapel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Cromemcos may be available in Michigan (Roger) In-Reply-To: <20030430170001.37364.32800.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030430192711.00b191c0@mail.attbi.com> >At 12:00 PM 4/30/2003 -0500, cctalk-request@classiccmp.org, your nimble fingers typed: >Re: Cromemcos may be available in Michigan >I'm not big into Cromemcos... but I'm relatively close (3 hours drive) and >may be able to snag these if someone(s) are interested... I am way out here in Washington state. A long way from Michigan. You can unload a C-10 here and I'm good for the cost plus. Also I have been looking for a C-10 monitor pedestal if you see one. Ed Chapel Vancouver, WA From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Apr 30 22:07:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: OT: Dot Matrix Printer Symphony Message-ID: <20030501033521.GL2136@rhiannon.rddavis.org> While looking for something else, I accidentally happened upon a web site pertaining to a "Symphony for Dot Matrix Printers." The URL is: http://theuser.silophone.net//dotmatrix/en/intro.html -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 30 22:11:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Yet another forum - MSDSite.com In-Reply-To: <20030430232829.GJ2136@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20030501030947.67506.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > commercial and sometimes proprietary, with excessive numbers of PHB's > > What's a PHB? Sounds like a nasty type of chemical to avoid. Pointy-Haired Boss?!? (not for internal or external use ;-) -ethan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Wed Apr 30 22:52:00 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Dot Matrix Printer Symphony Message-ID: Wow, Either 1. These guys need serious help. 2. These guys are brilliant. They recieved arts funding for the project... (Why couldn't I have thought of that) Doug Jackson Manager - Managed Services (ACT) Citadel Securix Pty Ltd Level 1, 10 Moore St Canberra ACT 2601 Ph: (612) 6290 9011 Fx: (612) 6262 6152 Mob: 0414 986 878 Web: www.citadel.com.au Melbourne - Sydney - Canberra - Brisbane - Hong Kong - Atlanta Any pricing or time figures contained within this email are indicative only, and have been provided for planning purposes only. Please request a quotation from your sales representative prior to undertaking any work. -----Original Message----- From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 1:35 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: OT: Dot Matrix Printer Symphony While looking for something else, I accidentally happened upon a web site pertaining to a "Symphony for Dot Matrix Printers." The URL is: http://theuser.silophone.net//dotmatrix/en/intro.html -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 30 23:03:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: Apple II APL Board? In-Reply-To: <3EB04E1D.CCFA3364@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > I picked up a board for the Apple II this last weekend, and am curious > if anyone knows anything about it? The silkscreening on the boards is > "APL BOARD", and besides an EPROM (Fairchild M88518H?) with "APL" > stamped on it, it has what appears to be a centronics printer cabled > attached. I have a couple. It is what it seems, just a simple, boring printer card :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 30 23:09:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: OT: Dot Matrix Printer Symphony In-Reply-To: <20030501033521.GL2136@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > While looking for something else, I accidentally happened upon a > web site pertaining to a "Symphony for Dot Matrix Printers." The > URL is: > > http://theuser.silophone.net//dotmatrix/en/intro.html Very cool, indeed. I invited them to perform at the VCF but unfortunately their fee was too high for me. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 30 23:52:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:37:23 2005 Subject: More DEC Stuff Coming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > I'd love a VT103 but I guess shipping to the UK would be a bit prohibitive! > > My gf's coming over to the US in August but the last time she brought > > something home for me (TRS80 MIII) some baggage 'handlers' forgot that glass > > breaks when its dropped :( > > I beleive the original packing box for the M3/M4 had the following > printed on it : 'Do not drop, or CRT may implode' ... Mind you , I once > had a CRT sent by Royal Mail (who are good at wrecking things!) in a > cardboard box with _no_ packing -- just rattling around in the box, and > it arrived in onve piece. How, I will never know... > > Is it time to repost the story of the 'Danger Implosives' sign :-) A good story is always worthy of repetition! - don > -tony