From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Sep 1 01:46:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:02 2005 Subject: Old DOS software In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020829080446.00a76190@207.148.227.193> Message-ID: > Hello all. I am looking for MSDOS software from the early 1980's. I have > some leads, but not many. Specifically, what I want is the entire PC-BLUE, > PC-SIG, and any other similar collections. I would prefer to download them > from someone and burn my own CDs but if you have them on CD-ROM and you are > willing to sell that is fine. Here are what leads I have. > I'd like to get this collection as well for the retroarchive.org site. It would be an important addition. g. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Sep 1 03:59:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: ASR33 questions In-Reply-To: "Erik S. Klein" "ASR33 questions" (Aug 31, 18:59) References: <013801c2515b$28cc0bd0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <10209011001.ZM19597@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Aug 31, 18:59, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I just received one of William's ASR33s and it appears to be in good > working order. I am not at all familiar with these machines so I have a > few questions about their operation and interfacing. > > First off, when I power on this unit the "main" motor doesn't run. It > turns when moved manually, but it won't move by itself. Depending on > the motor position at power-up (I think) I sometimes hear what sounds > like a warning buzzer. Is there something I'm doing wrong? How would I > run this machine in "local" mode? Sounds vaguely similar to a problem I have (occasionally) with mine. Sometimes the motor noise starts to rise and fall slightly, as if the motor is struggling; eventually it blows the fuse. In my case, I suspect the problem is something binding (needing adjustment) and/or needing correct lubrication. There are lots of parts that need lubrication, and it's definitely NOT a case of oiling or greasing everything in sight! There should be a knob on the front right. Turn left for online, centre off, right for local. > Once I figure out that this machine is working (I assume the problems > are mine and not the machines) I'd like to hook it up to my Altair > (which is now running great thanks to Dwight!). How would I go about > doing this? I'm guessing I'll need some sort of box to interface > between the TTY and RS232, but I haven't yet found any information on > that. Can anyone point me to an article, website or some other source > of information on this? You'll need a couple of RS232-to-20mA current loop converter circuits, one for the Tx line and one for Rx. Usually a small power supply, a couple of opto-isolators, and just a few other components. > What am I missing? Is there anything else I should know? Probably ;-) But I'd get the machine working in local mode before you start worring about interfacing it. David Gesswein's excellent site at www.pdp8.net has the ASR33 manuals in the document archive. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Sep 1 04:57:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: I guess I should give a little background for the folks who haven't heard from me privately lately. Just a few weeks ago or so (has it been that long already?), I ended up rescuing nearly an entire ham shack/photo/woodworking shop from a 40cu yard dumpster. A friend of mine who lived around the corner died a few years ago, and even after picking up tons of stuff from his family, and after numerous attempts to arrange pickup of the remaining stuff, I found out some of his family dumped the entire shop into a huge dumpster (or skip for you folks on the other side of the pond). Thankfully, I found out about it *before* the dumpster was to be picked up. I spent a total of around 22+ hours (with permission from the folks who filled the dumpster) over the course of two nights with the help of a work light pulling out everything I could salvage. There were a few things missing (someone else got there first), and 1000s (I'd guess that number anyway) of magazines and some books were ruined due to rain before I found out about the dumpster. Magazines dating from the 1940s to the 1970s were mostly ruined beyond salvage. These included titles such as Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, Mechanix, and Popular Electronics. It also included 3-4 different photo oriented publications with dates from early 1970s to the 1980s. Ironically, they also accidentally trashed 1000s and 1000s of photos, slides, negatives (both plastic and glass plate), and home movies. I've been returning those items as I sort them from the rest, since they did not mean to trash them. I still need advice on unsticking/cleaning the home movie films, since none were in water tight containers. Most are small reels in 3"x3"x3/4" cardboard boxes. I did explain to the family how to separate/clean prints, and I think about 99% of those were successfully salvaged. I am currently trying to figure out how to clean/salvage books that were exposed to the water, and since the texts are irreplaceable, I'm hesitant in what I try. Many books have a very fine powder-like mold on their covers, while the pages are ok. Some books have small amounts of mold growing on the edges of the pages. I also rescued a huge vinyl 33 1/3 record collection that needs to be cleaned up somehow. They were added to the dumpster (by mistake I was told) after the initial dive, and were subsequently exposed to yet more rain (Houston really sucks sometimes). I'm very worried about cleaning any mold from the album covers, but I imagine most of the vinyl is currently ok. Some of the records may have been broken when they were dumped into the dumpster, but I expect to find most intact. I imagine these may be the most time sensitive of all the rescued materials. I am also trying to figure out how to clean minor mold from and separate QSL cards that are stuck together. The cards date from the 1950s, but thankfully most were not exposed to water. I also have 100s of HARC publications that need to be salvaged. Some are in very good condition, while some have a significant mold growth on them. I should also add that I am keeping all the items stacked (and piled) in my (unfinished) computer building (nowhere else to put them at present), and have been keeping the lights on 24/7 to help inhibit the growth of mold. Also, if there is anyone located in Houston that feels like lending a hand in sorting/cleaning up stuff, please contact me. It is abit overwhelming for me to try to deal with ~50-60 years worth of items. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Sep 1 05:28:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: <10208292309.ZM17667@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Maybe this will help: there are basically 4 mice that have been used on > SGIs. Make that at least 5. The IRIS 1000/2000/3000 series systems used yet another type of mouse. I have one for the IRIS 1400 I have here. It has a stainless steel ball, but I'm not sure if it is optical or resistive. -Toth From ojw at dircon.co.uk Sun Sep 1 06:09:01 2002 From: ojw at dircon.co.uk (Oliver Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: Looking for SIMMs for PS/2 P70 386 In-Reply-To: <004501c25147$cf047960$3c00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <000101c251a7$c91a5690$0401a8c0@BADGER> Hi Bob - no SIMMs I'm afraid but I do have a P70 Quick Reference, Reference Diskette and the original boxed version of DOS (v4.00 with diskettes and manuals - pretty much mint condition). If this is any use to you I'd be happy to ship it over to you for postage cost only (although I am in the UK). Cheers [I haven't seen my own P70 since I left it in a hotel room in Moscow in 1993.... Who knows what it's doing now....] -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Robert F. Schaefer Sent: 01 September 2002 00:39 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Looking for SIMMs for PS/2 P70 386 Thanks to the local college boyz, I now have a slightly misused P70 to play on. The previous owner was kind enough to break off the retaining clips when he pulled the memory, but other than that it seems to be usable. Booting without any memory elicts a `211' error early in the POST, and booting with one or more of 8MB (IIRC) SIMMS gives a 225 error. I did a little research, and it seems that the max SIMM it'll take is a 2MB parity part, I know don't have any of those. Anyone happen to have a spare 8MB kit? Also, I'm looking for the S/370 card for it, if anyone has an extra they'd like to get rid of. ^_^ Bob From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Sun Sep 1 07:12:00 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: Old DOS software In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020829080446.00a76190@207.148.227.193> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020901080915.009fec20@pop-server> At 08:04 AM 8/29/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hello all. I am looking for MSDOS software from the early 1980's. *Best of Big Blue Disk on 5-1/4 $10 including media mail shipping *Big Blue Disk (2 disk sets) each on two 5-1/4 disks Issues 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 From r.stek at snet.net Sun Sep 1 07:16:09 2002 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: S-100 Board Info Needed Message-ID: <000001c251b1$1063ea80$6401a8c0@mycroft> This reply is a bit late, but I just received my digests this morning.... Although I have contributed some items, the Sol site is Jim Battle's - not mine. It is a wonderful resource for Processor Technology, the Sol, and also has some NorthStar materials. Jim's SolACE emulator is one of the best classic computer emulators I am familiar with. So if you haven't been there, I suggest a visit: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Sep 1 07:45:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: Need PC-AT "keyboard BIOS" docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200209010949.g819nx202181@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 31 Aug, Tony Duell wrote: >> Ah. Wasn't sure about that. I guess the uVAX2000 _does_ dedicate an >> entire serial port to just the keyboard when in workstation mode. > I can't say for the uVAX, but I am almost certain that the Rainbow does.... The MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 dedicates two serial ports to the keyboard and the mouse. There is a special break out box that makes this ports available for connecting terminals when the VAXstation 2000 is used as MicroVAX 2000. It is pluged into the keyboard/mouse/monitor connector on the back of the MicroVAX 2000. AFAIK all non-QBus VAXstations have a four port DZ-11 lookalike UART. One port for the keyboard, one for the mouse and two for printer, modem, (console), plotter, ... But the VAXstation 2000 is the only machine that officially supported terminals on the keyboard/mouse ports when in MicroVAX mode. (Selectable with a jumper.) -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From fernande at internet1.net Sun Sep 1 08:23:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D7214A5.4030601@internet1.net> Tothwolf wrote: >> Ironically, they also accidentally trashed 1000s and 1000s of photos, > slides, negatives (both plastic and glass plate), and home movies. I've > been returning those items as I sort them from the rest, since they did > not mean to trash them. Did they hire someone to clear out the space?? I can't imagine how so many things got dumped "accidently". Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Sep 1 10:37:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives again.... References: Message-ID: <3D723478.1030608@tiac.net> Sound-cars scopes don't work in this application, no Z-axis blanking. I've got a pair of Wells Gardner 19 inch monochrome vector monitors, NOS, in centeral MA. if needed. Brian Chase wrote: >On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > >>Kris Kirby wrote: >> > >>>what about an o-scope? Or I am being hideously naive about a computer >>>older than I am? >>> >>Not at all, in fact that is what we use at the moment. The problem is >>that the screen is far too small to provide any audience participation >>when the computer is on display (pardon the pun). >> > >Although this is not a good option for purists, it may be suitable for >for sizable audiences. You might try using a software oscilloscope, one >that takes its inputs from a soundcard. I'd imagine that one could use >a stereo capable soundcard to provide X/Y inputs. Then, given a large >monitor or a video projector, you could have a more adequately sized >display. > >There seem to be a couple packages available for Windows and here's one >for Linux: http://xoscope.sourceforge.net/ > >-brian. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020901/0bad30e4/attachment.html From allain at panix.com Sun Sep 1 10:43:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <003501c251ce$2b45c220$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > It is abit overwhelming for me to try to deal > with ~50-60 years worth of items. Philosophical: Will the people who come after you be sorting out 50~60 years worth of stuff or will it be 90~100 years worth of stuff? John A. From allain at panix.com Sun Sep 1 11:02:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: paging Bob Shannon References: <003501c251ce$2b45c220$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <004d01c251d0$ee4a7660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Bob, My eMails to you aren't getting through, hence this public request. John A. From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Sep 1 11:27:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: paging Bob Shannon References: <003501c251ce$2b45c220$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <004d01c251d0$ee4a7660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3D724056.1080006@tiac.net> Hello John. Please try another off-list email, and resend your mailing address. I'll send out your manual ASAP... John Allain wrote: >Bob, > > My eMails to you aren't getting through, > hence this public request. > >John A. > > > From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Sep 1 11:28:01 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020901162823.OPBJ19732.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Sunday 01 September 2002 06:07, Tothwolf wrote: > >I am currently trying to figure out how to clean/salvage books that were >exposed to the water, and since the texts are irreplaceable, I'm hesitant >in what I try. Many books have a very fine powder-like mold on their >covers, while the pages are ok. Some books have small amounts of mold >growing on the edges of the pages. > Get the books into a freezer! They will freeze dry and the cold will slow/stop the mold growth. A few libraries around here have suffed broken pipes and that's how they did it. I would try to separat eh moldy books from the others but since mold spores ar so small it may not be possible. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Sep 1 11:56:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: Info needed: Old video card References: <12f.16bcc2d1.2aa0ea4c@aol.com> <3D719B2B.90602@internet1.net> Message-ID: <004f01c251d8$6c9b2d50$863ecd18@D73KSM11> > macmcc3@aol.com wrote: > > I am looking for the EISA "CFG" file for the trident tvga8900c video > > card. If you have it or know where I can get it, it would be appreciated. > > > > Mac Mccurdy > > > > mac_mcc3@juno.com > > What is the name of the cfg file? If you put the card in a slot, the > EISA config program should ask for a specific file name. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > I have the driver files for the 8900C -- are these what you need? -W From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Sep 1 12:49:01 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: <51.2352cd61.2aa3ad14@aol.com> In a message dated 9/1/2002 12:29:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kenziem@sympatico.ca writes: > On Sunday 01 September 2002 06:07, Tothwolf wrote: > > > >I am currently trying to figure out how to clean/salvage books that were > >exposed to the water, and since the texts are irreplaceable, I'm hesitant > >in what I try. Many books have a very fine powder-like mold on their > >covers, while the pages are ok. Some books have small amounts of mold > >growing on the edges of the pages. > > > Get the books into a freezer! > > They will freeze dry and the cold will slow/stop the mold growth. > I did that once, but I dont think just placing them in the freezer is enough detail. I had ice crystals on my books. I guess they have to go in plastic bags. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020901/f495e6e0/attachment.html From foxnhare at bigvalley.net Sun Sep 1 12:56:00 2002 From: foxnhare at bigvalley.net (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #152 - 52 msgs References: <20020901170001.15952.6693.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3D72546C.2F70FB36@bigvalley.net> From: Tothwolf Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup You might want to contact the libraries in your area for companies that do freeze-drying too, since this is a big amout of items and there are contractors with large faciltiies (though I would hope you could get the family to chip in as they want some of the stuff you rescued for them) Larry -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Set your 8-bit C= rigs to sail for http://www.portcommodore.com/ 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011 From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Sep 1 15:03:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: Great HD Guide Message-ID: <00b401c251f2$9dc71280$bc000240@oemcomputer> Stopped at a new thrift in the area Friday and picked up several books (19) and one is titled The Hard Disk Technical Guide by Douglas T. Anderson PCS Publications March 1991. In it all list of various hard drives and their spec's but the best part is the listing of various controller cards and their jumper setting's (93 pages). There is lots of other good information in it and it's a total of 224 pages long and cost me a big 20 cents plus tax. This will help a lot in working with older cards when trying to get the right jumper settings. If anyone needs help with a card email me and I will see if it's listed in the book. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Sep 1 15:05:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <20020901162823.OPBJ19732.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Mike wrote: > On Sunday 01 September 2002 06:07, Tothwolf wrote: > > > I am currently trying to figure out how to clean/salvage books that > > were exposed to the water, and since the texts are irreplaceable, I'm > > hesitant in what I try. Many books have a very fine powder-like mold > > on their covers, while the pages are ok. Some books have small amounts > > of mold growing on the edges of the pages. > > Get the books into a freezer! I don't have access to a large freezer of any sort. > They will freeze dry and the cold will slow/stop the mold growth. I think most of the materials have already dried out, but some are still slightly damp. > I would try to separat eh moldy books from the others but since mold > spores ar so small it may not be possible. I would, but I don't have the room. Houston has also been seeing extremely high levels of mold spores, which I think greatly contributed to the rapid growth of mold on the damp materials. I actually removed about half of the contents from that 40cu yard dumpster, and about 1/3 of the bulk I salvaged is paper matter. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Sep 1 15:06:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D7214A5.4030601@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > Ironically, they also accidentally trashed 1000s and 1000s of photos, > > slides, negatives (both plastic and glass plate), and home movies. > > I've been returning those items as I sort them from the rest, since > > they did not mean to trash them. > > Did they hire someone to clear out the space?? I can't imagine how so > many things got dumped "accidently". I'm not exactly sure. I've heard different stories from different people. I don't think anyone wants to take the blame for it. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Sep 1 15:08:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <51.2352cd61.2aa3ad14@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/1/2002 12:29:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > kenziem@sympatico.ca writes: > > On Sunday 01 September 2002 06:07, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > I am currently trying to figure out how to clean/salvage books that > > > were exposed to the water, and since the texts are irreplaceable, > > > I'm hesitant in what I try. Many books have a very fine powder-like > > > mold on their covers, while the pages are ok. Some books have small > > > amounts of mold growing on the edges of the pages. > > > > Get the books into a freezer! > > > > They will freeze dry and the cold will slow/stop the mold growth. > > I did that once, but I dont think just placing them in the freezer is > enough detail. I had ice crystals on my books. I guess they have to go > in plastic bags. Plastic wrap would be a quick/cheap solution for larger books and such, but I just don't have access to a freezer large enough to hold papers/books. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Sep 1 15:13:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <003501c251ce$2b45c220$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, John Allain wrote: > > It is abit overwhelming for me to try to deal with ~50-60 years worth > > of items. > > Philosophical: > Will the people who come after you be sorting out 50~60 years worth of > stuff or will it be 90~100 years worth of stuff? A good question I guess ;) I would imagine it would be more than 100, since I'm considered a youngster, though you have to figure in for some overlap of the time periods too. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Sep 1 15:19:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup (was: Re: cctalk digest ...) In-Reply-To: <3D72546C.2F70FB36@bigvalley.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Larry Anderson wrote: > You might want to contact the libraries in your area for companies that > do freeze-drying too, since this is a big amout of items and there are > contractors with large faciltiies (though I would hope you could get the > family to chip in as they want some of the stuff you rescued for them) I don't have the funds, and I think most of the really wet materials have already dried out. The family who dumped everything would never help with salvage anyway, since they are currently in a big hurry to unload the estate and such. I guess the only good thing is that the computer building has excellent ventilation (by design) and the temperature stays between 70-85deg F most of the time (no electrical for A/C yet). -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 1 18:41:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: ASR33 questions In-Reply-To: <011e01c25143$5f46cf50$6e7ba8c0@piii933> from "Erik S. Klein" at Aug 31, 2 04:08:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4126 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020901/8f2ee033/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Sep 1 18:44:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update Message-ID: OK. A little looking around has revealed that I have a Model 707 (not the 707/1200, darn it!) and a model 745. I also found out this evening that $friend forgot to give me the shopping bag full of thermal paper.... I've found a lot of links to pages that mention there, but no real documentation. Oh, and one company that will sell a manual for the 745 for $30 plus S&H. Does anyone know where I might find real information? Considering the source, I have every hope that they are fully functional. Doc From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Sep 1 20:54:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: Quick intro and requests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3D727D8E.26915.1E9FCBC@localhost> > Hello, > > Just a quick introduction... My name's Justin, and I've been collecting old > computers for quite a while now. Just joined the list today. :) > > Now for a requests: > > Among my collection is an NEC ProSpeed 286 laptop computer, which seems to be in > full working condition. The only problem is I have no manuals, drivers, or > utilities for it. I couldn't find anything on the internet despite extensive > searching, and contacting NEC support as well as scouring through the NEC FTP > site. My specific problems are I can't switch to the external video output, or > activate the serial port, parallel port, or internal modem (which I think is > 2400 bps). > I have a working Prospeed 286 and the various setup files. They used to be available on the Australian NEC site. Check that out and if it's no longer up contact me off-list. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Sep 1 20:55:11 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3D727D8F.3707.1E9FD1B@localhost> Stories like this always sadden me. I've seen it happen many times and benefitted on occasion from the dumpster or heard about it afterward. One of my fears is that the same thing might happen to my stuff, since my sons are 1000 of miles distant. A while back this problem was raised on the list and some solutions broached but never really finalized. Some kind of repository for instructions for disposal, eg: offering it for auction to the list, that could be left in a will is the idea, since most of the survivors would have no idea of the value of the stuff we collect, and in my case very few locals that would be interested. Lawrence > I guess I should give a little background for the folks who haven't heard > from me privately lately. > > Just a few weeks ago or so (has it been that long already?), I ended up > rescuing nearly an entire ham shack/photo/woodworking shop from a 40cu > yard dumpster. A friend of mine who lived around the corner died a few > years ago, and even after picking up tons of stuff from his family, and > after numerous attempts to arrange pickup of the remaining stuff, I found > out some of his family dumped the entire shop into a huge dumpster (or > skip for you folks on the other side of the pond). Thankfully, I found out > about it *before* the dumpster was to be picked up. > SNIP > -Toth > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Sep 1 20:55:39 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: Um, OK.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3D727D8F.26037.1E9FD67@localhost> Unfortunately most people will just use you and take for granted your efforts on their part. And if they think it is beyond you will willingly pay some grunge shop mega-bucks to fix their machine. I don't ask for money when I fix friends machines but at least they should show some gratitude for the money you saved them. A neighbor recently brought me a laptop that his son had tried to install XP on with a friends cd. Since MSh-t has in its wisdom instituted call-in initiation as part of it's anti-piracy measures with great chest-thumping, the installation froze leaving only an inaccessable NTFS partition. And of course all drivers were lost. After doing some searching on XP which I have never used I found delpart and zapped the drive and then set it up again using fdisk and formatted it. I then had to find all the drivers and reinstall w98se as well as some essential programs. It took me about 2 days work. When I phoned them to say it was functioning again and to pick it up so I could show them some important things, the reply was "Oh I can't now" and I am still waiting for them. No "Thank you", no "Sorry I'll pick it up as soon as I"m free". This is the 2nd time I reinstalled W98 for them as well as helping them overcome other problems. And always with a taking for granted attitude. Newby's seem to think it's like repairing a flat on a bicycle. No more free tech for these guys. The next time they'll pay $ or they can take thier problems to a shop and pay the going rate. Lawrence > > Oh. Well, yeah. They're mostly the same folk. As contradictory as > >that sounds, it is really the truth. > > Amazing how that is huh. They'll give you all the real junk, but toss the > stuff that is of interest. > > >Let me guess. "But I thought you only like OLD Macs?" > > No, it was more along the lines of "Well, it never worked right for me > anyway". My retort was simply "Yeah, but you're a moron" (I've known his > brother since I was in the 3rd grade... so I can get away with calling > him a moron and not fear that he will stiff me when he junks the iMac G4 > in a month when he craps it up too.) > > > And to add insult to my weekend... I just got back from my sister's house > (had to fix her PC, her kids shoved the power button clean out of the > front of the case). It seems her husband did the same thing to me. They > got a new PC, and she planned to turn the old one into a kids gaming > computer. But her husband decided it was taking up space and gave it to > some guy he knows from work last month. At least I don't mind half as > much with this one, it was only a P180 Compaq, this little black, non > expandable desktop unit. And it went to another user rather than the > trash. No serious loss. (although it would have made a nice tiny netBSD > server since the thing was little bigger than a VCR) > > -chris > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Sep 1 21:12:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: Um, OK.... In-Reply-To: <3D727D8F.26037.1E9FD67@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > No more free tech for these guys. The next time they'll pay $ or they can > take thier problems to a shop and pay the going rate. My friends get their feelings horribly hurt when I tell them that. I invited one young friend to come over with his box AND all the software he wanted on it, have lunch, and do some yardwork while I worked on his stuff. Hour-for-hour. It was not the 2 hours in the sun, but the two trips to his house and one to the store that broke him. He finally understood how much he had expected ME to pay for HIS software, and that I really was giving up a Sunday afternoon to do the job. He paid me the original asking price, besides doing a decent job on my lawn. :) Doc From foo at siconic.com Sun Sep 1 21:27:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > OK. A little looking around has revealed that I have a Model 707 (not > the 707/1200, darn it!) and a model 745. I also found out this evening > that $friend forgot to give me the shopping bag full of thermal > paper.... > I've found a lot of links to pages that mention there, but no real > documentation. Oh, and one company that will sell a manual for the 745 > for $30 plus S&H. > Does anyone know where I might find real information? Considering the > source, I have every hope that they are fully functional. They are simply portable printing terminals, nothing really special about them. Hook them up to something and start typing. The Model 745 is by far the most common. Nothing special about it. It has an Intel 8080 at its heart. The Model 765 has a bubble memory module and a small filesystem whereby you can actually store data in it. I've got at least one. They are fairly rare. I'm not familiar with what makes the 707 different from the other models. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Sep 1 21:39:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > Does anyone know where I might find real information? Considering the > > source, I have every hope that they are fully functional. > > They are simply portable printing terminals, nothing really special about > them. Hook them up to something and start typing. Uh. That assumes FAR more knowledge than I have. I understand the concept of printing terminals. I am aware of their existence. *That* is the starting point. Doc From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 1 22:27:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup (was: Re: cctalk digest ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020902032713.59014.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tothwolf wrote: > On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Larry Anderson wrote: > > > You might want to contact the libraries in your area for companies that > > do freeze-drying too... > > I don't have the funds, and I think most of the really wet materials have > already dried out. I had a major catastrophe in my storage area about 10 years ago. I was working in the basement below the shop my mother was renting for her typing/typesetting business. The beauty salon next door managed to plug the sewage line with feminine products (as evidenced by several pounds of cotton snaked out of the line during the repair). The first thing that happened was 6" of rainwater. Two days later, it was replaced by 2" of sewage. Fortunately, I had begun the recovery work when it was just water. Among the casualties were a Diablo "RK03" disk drive, and a book case full of 1970s BYTE magazines - paid for by subscription, not free to me. The magazines were on the bottom shelf of a pressboard book case, low enough to wick up the water. They split the book case and dumped the contents into the pool. I wrapped up all the books and magazines in saran wrap and froze them to give me time to deal with them. I stacked them in the freezer at work (people didn't store lunches in there). About 5 at a time, I would remove them, unwrap them, and place them under the raised floor under a board and a weight, right in front of the air inlet. With the constantly moving air, they didn't mold, and did a fair job of drying out without too much cling and damage (on newsprint pages). I did lose a few things - DEC GIGI terminal glossies, some Dec-u-scopes and a few 1975-1980-era DEC and DECUS publications. I think I saved about 80% of the magazines and hardback books, at least to a readable state, wrinked but informationally intact. Good luck on what you have left to rescue. Water is probably one of the easiest ways to damage those things we most want to preserve. It's OK if your circuits get wet, but not the docs and software. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From red at bears.org Mon Sep 2 01:57:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > Maybe this will help: there are basically 4 mice that have been used on > > SGIs. > > Make that at least 5. The IRIS 1000/2000/3000 series systems used yet > another type of mouse. I have one for the IRIS 1400 I have here. It has a > stainless steel ball, but I'm not sure if it is optical or resistive. data point: The 3000-series mouse is different. It's an optical mouse and very similar to the later 4D-series mice, but not identical. I don't have a 4D to test to see if they're interchangeable. ok r. From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 2 09:51:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > They are simply portable printing terminals, nothing really special about > > them. Hook them up to something and start typing. > > Uh. That assumes FAR more knowledge than I have. I understand the > concept of printing terminals. I am aware of their existence. *That* > is the starting point. What else is there to know? It's a dumb terminal. Have you never played with a dumb terminal before? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Sep 2 10:16:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > They are simply portable printing terminals, nothing really special about > > > them. Hook them up to something and start typing. > > > > Uh. That assumes FAR more knowledge than I have. I understand the > > concept of printing terminals. I am aware of their existence. *That* > > is the starting point. > > What else is there to know? It's a dumb terminal. Sellam, at the risk of being a dick, do you have any references or not? > Have you never played with a dumb terminal before? Yes. I _haven't_ played with thermal printers. I _haven't_ played with acoustic couplers. I _haven't_ tried to connect a 300bps terminal to a console that expects 9600. I _have_ this thing wanting access to manuals. Just Because. I also _have_ plenty of obtuse, sarcastic jerks in my world already. Doc From wrm at ccii.co.za Mon Sep 2 10:18:00 2002 From: wrm at ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: Olivetti M24 monitor Message-ID: <200209021517.RAA06056@ccii.co.za> Hi all >Display Frequrency: 24 MHz >Horizontal Freq: 25,862 kHz >Vertical Freq: 59,873 Hz >Dots per trace: 640 >Number of Traces: 400 >Power Supply: 15V +- 1.5% Thanks, Robert. Just a tad too low to use a VGA monitor. Anyone know how to crank the horizontal scan rate on a VGA monitor down? Should be do-able, no? >I have a block diagram (from AT&T 6300 Plus docs), which I can scan and send >you if you want it. I think the monitor this guy has is pretty toasted. I'd like to replace it, not to try and repair it. Do you have the pinouts for that connector, maybe? Thanks Wouter From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 2 13:06:00 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Vintage Computer for Sale: Ithaca DPS-1 Message-ID: <001401c252aa$84084e50$e4db3fd0@DOMAIN> Hi all, Here's a nice guy trying to sell his Ithaca DPS-1 and matching dual 8" drives. It sounds like they're in great shape. Tell him dogas sent you, but I'm not affiliated with the sale. Contact Ken at his net1plus.com account below if interested. Good luck! ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From: Ken Silvestri To: 'Mike' Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 11:27 AM Subject: RE: Vintage Computer for Sale > Hello Mike, > > Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, but I have the details you > were looking for. > > Ithaca Intersystems Mod# DPS-1, Ser. # MFD-0675 > > Boards: > * IA-2030 Rev.A 64K ram > * IA-2000 Rev.A Z-80A CPU > * IA-2020 Controller? > * IA-1190 Rev.B I/O > * Tecmar S-100 D/A > * Backplane, Thinker Toys w/20 edge sockets > > Floppy Drives: > 2-8" drives in matching enclosure > Ithaca Intersystems Mod# 950 > Ser# DBD 0608 > > All switches and lights on the front panel appear to be functional. > The whole system is in excellent shape and includes the cables. > > I will let it go for any reasonable offer. > > Live well and prosper, > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Ken Silvestri > > > > > > T: 978-597-8018 > > > F: 978-597-2309 > > > E: ksilvestri@net1plus.com > > > > > > > > > > > > From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Mon Sep 2 13:09:00 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:03 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65498.62.148.193.2.1030990155.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Doc Shipley said: > On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Uh. That assumes FAR more knowledge than I have. I understand the > concept of printing terminals. I am aware of their existence. *That* > is the starting point. I've got one 700 (not sure of the model though) with an acoustic coupler and a direct connection. Never tried the acoustic coupler (I don't have anywhere to call at those speeds :) but I soldered a cable, got some cheap rolls of fax-paper, hooked it up to a unix box (hp300, NetBSD) and did some serious computing. It was a lot of fun :) I don't have any docs but I do have the cable pinouts somewhere, if you need them. -- jht From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 2 13:11:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > What else is there to know? It's a dumb terminal. Howzbout the lower case conversion? the jumper to connect/disconnect the modem from the terminal the pinout of the DA15 (which connects to both the modem and terminal and can be used with a jumper plug in lieu of the jumper) > Have you never played with a dumb terminal before? What do you do when the pirate takes all of your stuff in the maze? XYZZY PLUGH From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Sep 2 13:38:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: <65498.62.148.193.2.1030990155.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > Doc Shipley said: > > On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > Uh. That assumes FAR more knowledge than I have. I understand the > > concept of printing terminals. I am aware of their existence. *That* > > is the starting point. > > I've got one 700 (not sure of the model though) with an acoustic coupler > and a direct connection. Never tried the acoustic coupler (I don't have > anywhere to call at those speeds :) but I soldered a cable, got some > cheap rolls of fax-paper, hooked it up to a unix box (hp300, NetBSD) > and did some serious computing. It was a lot of fun :) > > I don't have any docs but I do have the cable pinouts somewhere, > if you need them. Thanks, I do need the pinouts. Does yours have a 15-pin interface? Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Sep 2 13:45:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > What else is there to know? It's a dumb terminal. > > Howzbout the lower case conversion? > the jumper to connect/disconnect the modem from the terminal > the pinout of the DA15 (which connects to both the modem and > terminal and can be used with a jumper plug in lieu of the jumper) Yes!! Those! And the ubiquitous "more". > > Have you never played with a dumb terminal before? > What do you do when the pirate takes all of your stuff in the maze? > XYZZY > PLUGH Teehee Doc From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Sep 2 13:55:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020902191527.GB22128@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tothwolf, from writings of Sun, Sep 01, 2002 at 05:07:13AM -0500: > I also rescued a huge vinyl 33 1/3 record collection that needs to be > cleaned up somehow. They were added to the dumpster (by mistake I was > told) after the initial dive, and were subsequently exposed to yet more > rain (Houston really sucks sometimes). I'm very worried about cleaning any > mold from the album covers, but I imagine most of the vinyl is currently > ok. Some of the records may have been broken when they were dumped into There's a product called "Disc Doctor" that's supposed to clean mold/mildew from vinyl LPs, as well as other aspects of cleaning them; from what I've read, this cleaning solution was created by a chemist who spent years researching and creating it. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From schoedel at kw.igs.net Mon Sep 2 14:38:00 2002 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I've found a lot of links to pages that mention there, but no real >documentation. Oh, and one company that will sell a manual for the 745 >for $30 plus S&H. > Does anyone know where I might find real information? Considering the >source, I have every hope that they are fully functional. I have a maintenance manual covering models 720, 720C, 722, 723, 725, 730, and 731 (naturally, not the model I actually *have*) plus a user manual for model 725. I would be willing to donate them to anyone who can commit to getting them scanned and made available online. -- Kevin Schoedel "The danger already exists that the mathematicians schoedel@kw.igs.net have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell" -- St. Augustine (354-430) From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 2 15:46:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Sellam, at the risk of being a dick, do you have any references or > not? Yes, but for a much older model. > I also _have_ plenty of obtuse, sarcastic jerks in my world already. If that's how you took my comments then I think that's on your end, Doc. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Sep 2 16:09:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > Sellam, at the risk of being a dick, do you have any references or > > not? > > Yes, but for a much older model. Thank you. > > I also _have_ plenty of obtuse, sarcastic jerks in my world already. > > If that's how you took my comments then I think that's on your end, Doc. quoted from you last reply: > What else is there to know? It's a dumb terminal. Assuming _you've_ ever seen one of these, that's deliberately and obviously obtuse. > Have you never played with a dumb terminal before? Not sarcastic? OK, my mistake. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 2 16:09:13 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam is right, that it is JUST a printing dumb terminal. And an Apple I is JUST a home microcomputer. But for many of us, the Silent 700 was an AWESOME device. For many of us, it was our very first exposure to any sort of PORTABLE computing. And not only was it portable, it was EASILY portable, lightweight, reliable, . . . It had acoustic cups, it printed, it would connect to damn near ANYTHING, it was the neatest thing, yet! Small caps was a disappointment for lower case, but it worked. 300 baud is no longer viable. Thermal paper with a coarse dot matrix doesn't compare to inkjet. But if I were to succomb to a craving to reagin my youth through reacquiring my past possessions, and finally getting all of the stuff that I had once lusted after, then getting back my silent 700 would have to be near the top of the list. Oh, if only that t'were all that were needed to make me young again! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 2 16:21:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > quoted from you last reply: > > What else is there to know? It's a dumb terminal. > Assuming _you've_ ever seen one of these, that's deliberately and > obviously obtuse. Well, to SOME people, it's about as interesting as a generic 286 AT. From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 2 16:46:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Fw: Vintage Computer for Sale: Ithaca DPS-1 In-Reply-To: <001401c252aa$84084e50$e4db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: In this case, the "relatively reasonable offer" will probably have to be between $600 and $2,500, which is what I indicated this system is probably worth (to the right buyer) to the guy's dad when he called me looking for a value. If you get it for $600 then you got yourself a deal. If you pay over $1,000 then you paid too much. On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Mike wrote: > Hi all, > > Here's a nice guy trying to sell his Ithaca DPS-1 and matching dual 8" > drives. It sounds like they're in great shape. > > Tell him dogas sent you, but I'm not affiliated with the sale. Contact Ken > at his net1plus.com account below if interested. > > Good luck! > > ;) > - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > > > > > From: Ken Silvestri > To: 'Mike' > Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 11:27 AM > Subject: RE: Vintage Computer for Sale > > > > Hello Mike, > > > > Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, but I have the details you > > were looking for. > > > > Ithaca Intersystems Mod# DPS-1, Ser. # MFD-0675 > > > > Boards: > > * IA-2030 Rev.A 64K ram > > * IA-2000 Rev.A Z-80A CPU > > * IA-2020 Controller? > > * IA-1190 Rev.B I/O > > * Tecmar S-100 D/A > > * Backplane, Thinker Toys w/20 edge sockets > > > > Floppy Drives: > > 2-8" drives in matching enclosure > > Ithaca Intersystems Mod# 950 > > Ser# DBD 0608 > > > > All switches and lights on the front panel appear to be functional. > > The whole system is in excellent shape and includes the cables. > > > > I will let it go for any reasonable offer. > > > > Live well and prosper, > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Ken Silvestri > > > > > > > > T: 978-597-8018 > > > > F: 978-597-2309 > > > > E: ksilvestri@net1plus.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 2 16:47:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > But if I were to succomb to a craving to reagin my youth through > reacquiring my past possessions, and finally getting all of the stuff that > I had once lusted after, then getting back my silent 700 would have to be > near the top of the list. > > Oh, if only that t'were all that were needed to make me young again! I can't make you young again, but I can reunite you with a Silent 700 if you ever want one ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 2 16:53:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > > Sellam, at the risk of being a dick, do you have any references or > > > not? > > > > Yes, but for a much older model. > > Thank you. > > > > I also _have_ plenty of obtuse, sarcastic jerks in my world already. > > > > If that's how you took my comments then I think that's on your end, Doc. > > quoted from you last reply: > > What else is there to know? It's a dumb terminal. > > Assuming _you've_ ever seen one of these, that's deliberately and > obviously obtuse. > > > Have you never played with a dumb terminal before? > > Not sarcastic? OK, my mistake. Sorry, I just never really saw these as particularly special, especially after I found my third one :) Now I have about 6, and the most special would be the model 765 with the bubble memory, and the 733 which is just damn cool looking: http://siconic.com/computers/ASR733-1.jpg I've got at least 5 of those. I'm open to trades :) The 745 is by far the most common. I never played with mine beyond plugging it in and typing a few characters. The modem should be easy to figure out. Set up a PC with a modem and some terminal software, set it for 300BPS and auto-answer. Better yet, get a PC running Linux stick a modem on it. The switches on the Silent 700 are fairly self-evident. Dial into your PC with a regular 2500 style phone (i.e. the common phones from days of yore, the handset being the type that will fit nicely into the acoustic coupler) and when you hear the carrier, stuff the handset into the AC and then switch the terminal into ORIGINATE mode. It should sync up and you'll be connected. Type and be jolly. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Sep 2 17:00:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT-record cleaning References: Message-ID: <3D73DE7F.9040301@jetnet.ab.ca> Here is a blurb on record cleaning once your mold is gone. http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/cleaner/cleaner.html From mythtech at mac.com Mon Sep 2 17:03:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >There's a product called "Disc Doctor" that's supposed to clean >mold/mildew from vinyl LPs, as well as other aspects of cleaning them; >from what I've read, this cleaning solution was created by a chemist >who spent years researching and creating it. Don't confuse this with the "Disc Doctor" for CDs. The CD thing will destroy your discs. It is a hand crank unit that the CD clips into, and comes with a spray on chemical. You are supposed to use it with badly scratched or dirtied CDs. Spray the fluid on, clip it into the hand crank, and turn the crank. Then it rebuffs the CD surface, and "grinds" a new coat on it to remove sratches. Well, I have one, and after trying to recover 3 CDs with it and it didn't work, I decided to try it on a new CD (because I didn't like the looks of the CD when it was done). It rendered the new CD useless. And was repeatable on 4 more CDs (you know, just making sure I wasn't doing something wrong). It grinds a new surface all right, it grinds the surface right off! -chris From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Mon Sep 2 17:31:01 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives Message-ID: <1fhw2bg.1etk3x2bkuyx4M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Did anybody ever market a floppy disk system that communicated via RS-232? -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 2 17:40:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: <1fhw2bg.1etk3x2bkuyx4M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, tim lindner wrote: > Did anybody ever market a floppy disk system that communicated via > RS-232? Yes, but, ... Only one really "caught on" Radio Shack "Portable Disk Drive" was sold for the Model 100. It was serial, but not quite RS-232. The first version was Single-Density? on a 3.5" disk. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Sep 2 17:59:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >It grinds a new surface all right, it grinds the surface right off! I've never seen this thing but just a thought: were you grinding the wrong surface (seriously)? I think things would have to be pretty bad for me to use a grinding product on a CD. I do have what is essentially a soft pad (just to remove dust and prints and suchlike from the surface) and I have seen various "CD restorer" kits (these seem to be mostly fluids that claim to fill in the scratches and prevent them from interfering with the data readback ... I'm not sure I believe that!) Antonio From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Sep 2 18:04:01 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: <1fhw2bg.1etk3x2bkuyx4M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020902175923.0241d730@pc> At 03:31 PM 9/2/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Did anybody ever market a floppy disk system that communicated via >RS-232? Sure, a number of applications used them. The Tandy Model 100 early laptop had one. I've seen others that were used to record and play back streams coming from 300-baud-era modems, too. - John From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Sep 2 18:28:00 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <021801c252d8$5f86f990$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Carlini" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 8:29 AM Subject: RE: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup > > >It grinds a new surface all right, it grinds the surface right off! > > I've never seen this thing but just a thought: were you grinding the > wrong surface (seriously)? > > I think things would have to be pretty bad for me to use > a grinding product on a CD. I do have what is essentially > a soft pad (just to remove dust and prints and suchlike > from the surface) and I have seen various "CD restorer" > kits (these seem to be mostly fluids that claim to fill in the > scratches and prevent them from interfering with the > data readback ... I'm not sure I believe that!) I've found that 'Brasso' applied by hand can descratch a CD that was unreadable due to serious scratching and make it useable. I've done this on several occasions now, last time was for the art teacher who had one of her favourite music CD's damaged by a student. Provided the scratching doesn't cut through the top layer, it works if you are careful... Geoff in Oz From curt at atari-history.com Mon Sep 2 19:02:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives References: Message-ID: <006801c252dc$f4ef9560$01000001@cvendel> No kidding, wow!!! I've gotta find one and see if I could get it to work on the Atari Serial I/O bus, this should be interesting.... :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 6:39 PM Subject: Re: Serial floppy drives > On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, tim lindner wrote: > > Did anybody ever market a floppy disk system that communicated via > > RS-232? > > Yes, but, ... > Only one really "caught on" > Radio Shack "Portable Disk Drive" was sold for the Model 100. > It was serial, but not quite RS-232. The first version was > Single-Density? on a 3.5" disk. > > From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Mon Sep 2 19:03:01 2002 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives Message-ID: One existed for the HP-48 series of calcs. It was called (I think) drive-95. The device used serial, and kermit to communicate with the calc for program storage. (I *reallllly* wanted one of those...) Doug Jackson MSS Operations Manager Citadel Securix (02) 6290 9011 (Ph) (02) 6262 6152 (Fax) (0414) 986 878 (mobile) > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 8:40 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Serial floppy drives > > > On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, tim lindner wrote: > > Did anybody ever market a floppy disk system that communicated via > > RS-232? > > Yes, but, ... > Only one really "caught on" > Radio Shack "Portable Disk Drive" was sold for the Model 100. > It was serial, but not quite RS-232. The first version was > Single-Density? on a 3.5" disk. > > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020902/6e22b55c/attachment.html From meltie at myrealbox.com Mon Sep 2 19:12:00 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (melt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <021801c252d8$5f86f990$0300a8c0@geoff> References: <021801c252d8$5f86f990$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <1031012008.16973.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Tue, 2002-09-03 at 00:27, Geoff Roberts wrote: > I've found that 'Brasso' applied by hand can descratch a CD > that was unreadable due to serious scratching and make it > useable. I've done this on several occasions now, last time > was for the art teacher who had one of her favourite music > CD's damaged by a student. Provided the scratching doesn't > cut through the top layer, it works if you are careful... > > Geoff in Oz Seconded - it's saved my ass a few times now too. Alex [sound engineer...] From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 2 19:27:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: <006801c252dc$f4ef9560$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: > > Radio Shack "Portable Disk Drive" was sold for the Model 100. On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > No kidding, wow!!! I've gotta find one and see if I could get it to work on > the Atari Serial I/O bus, this should be interesting.... :-) Gonna be at VCF? I'm pretty sure that there's at least one in one of the totes of stuff that I need to get rid of there. BTW, there was a later model (that I don't have) that was double density. I've got enough of a storage problem that I'll even have to turn down Sellam's offer to rejuvenate me with a Silent 700 :-( -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Sep 2 19:50:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: <006801c252dc$f4ef9560$01000001@cvendel> References: <006801c252dc$f4ef9560$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: >No kidding, wow!!! I've gotta find one and see if I could get it to work on >the Atari Serial I/O bus, this should be interesting.... :-) There are programs out there to allow the Model 100's drives to be used with the Portfolio but I've not seen anything for hooking it to the 800. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 2 19:55:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Um, OK.... In-Reply-To: <3D727D8F.26037.1E9FD67@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 1, 2 08:50:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1776 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020902/91a829d6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 2 19:55:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D727D8F.3707.1E9FD1B@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 1, 2 08:50:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 981 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020902/6bc439c2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 2 19:56:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: <1fhw2bg.1etk3x2bkuyx4M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> from "tim lindner" at Sep 2, 2 03:31:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 793 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020902/da90b691/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 2 20:35:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > There are programs out there to allow the Model 100's drives > to be used with the Portfolio but I've not seen anything for hooking > it to the 800. There has been a fair amount of written material about how to interface them to other computers. From mythtech at mac.com Mon Sep 2 20:40:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >I've never seen this thing but just a thought: were you grinding the >wrong surface (seriously)? No, I followed the directions to the letter, a few times, just to see if I was doing something wrong. You are supposed to use it on the reading surface (as opposed to the lable side) >I think things would have to be pretty bad for me to use >a grinding product on a CD. It doesn't advertise that it "grinds", rather it says it "buffs" the scratches out. But after trying it out on a few CDs, grind is MUCH better word for it, as it litterally tears the surface of the CD apart (leaving behind a very scratched up surface that no longer reflects worth crap). >I do have what is essentially >a soft pad (just to remove dust and prints and suchlike >from the surface) and I have seen various "CD restorer" >kits (these seem to be mostly fluids that claim to fill in the >scratches and prevent them from interfering with the >data readback ... I'm not sure I believe that!) I have one of those too... and it works VERY well, although not for seriously scratched CDs, but ones that are really dirty, and have some mars on them, it works nicely. But it is a much more gentle process. It looks like an overgrown jewel case, you put the CD in it read side up, spray it with the fluid (which from the ingedients is little more than alcohol and gelatin from what I can gather), and then close the cover and spin the handle. It then rubs in a pseudo circular motion, a soft felt pad (like a mini car buffer) across the surface. You spin it for a bit until the CD looks shiney. Then remove it, let it dry fully (a few seconds) and so far, most all of the CDs I have used it on have come back to life, at least long enough for me to image the disc to be burned to a new CD. -chris From mythtech at mac.com Mon Sep 2 20:44:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >I've found that 'Brasso' applied by hand can descratch a CD >that was unreadable due to serious scratching and make it >useable. What's Brasso? -chris From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Sep 2 21:01:00 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020903020040.TKGI7165.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup > From: Chris > To: > Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:44:16 -0400 > >I've found that 'Brasso' applied by hand can descratch a CD > >that was unreadable due to serious scratching and make it > >useable. > > What's Brasso? Small tin with white pop off cap, tin is covered in blue and white, thick white stuff pours out of it on cloth and rubbed on tanished metals to get it bright again. The powder in it is sightly gritty enough to polish scratched CDs. rub slow on wrong side, u don't want heat to melt plastic so no power buffing. Toothpaste will work, heatsink grease will do that too. I used that heatsink grease to polish off tanished silver platings on those VCR mode switches then protect it with coat of silicone grease. Very effective long-term fix. Cheers, Wizard From kenziem at sympatico.ca Mon Sep 2 21:13:00 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020903021204.WGDU5745.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Monday 02 September 2002 18:39, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, tim lindner wrote: > > Did anybody ever market a floppy disk system that communicated via > > RS-232? > > Yes, but, ... > Only one really "caught on" > Radio Shack "Portable Disk Drive" was sold for the Model 100. > It was serial, but not quite RS-232. The first version was > Single-Density? on a 3.5" disk. I picked up one this weekend, with a bag of drive rails, 4mm DAT tape and a bunch of odd commodore and Tandy parts. I also managed to get the Barbie PC back working. It seems that the battery is esential for the machine to work and if the battery is dead it won't even power up. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Sep 2 21:19:00 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <00d601c252f0$45e9e3e0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:14 AM Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup > >I've found that 'Brasso' applied by hand can descratch a CD > >that was unreadable due to serious scratching and make it > >useable. > > What's Brasso? Liquid brass polish. Been around forever. There is a companion product for silver called, oddly enough, Silvo which is a bit finer in composition I believe. Brasso works very well on scratched cds, I've got a couple that were unplayable/readable and now look and play like new. Requires patience. I don't recommend power tools in this application though I have resorted to putting the cd in a holder on a variable speed drill for really heavy scratching that was going to take forever by hand. That worked, with a chux and plenty of brasso. Cheers Geoff in Oz From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Mon Sep 2 21:30:01 2002 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: This sort of reminds me that the village isn't quite so global...Even though the marketing says so... Brasso is an Australian Trademark. It may not exist elsewhere. Doug Jackson MSS Operations Manager Citadel Securix (02) 6290 9011 (Ph) (02) 6262 6152 (Fax) (0414) 986 878 (mobile) > -----Original Message----- > From: Geoff Roberts [mailto:geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au] > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 12:19 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:14 AM > Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup > > > > >I've found that 'Brasso' applied by hand can descratch a CD > > >that was unreadable due to serious scratching and make it > > >useable. > > > > What's Brasso? > > Liquid brass polish. Been around forever. There is a > companion product for > silver called, oddly enough, Silvo which is a bit finer in > composition I > believe. > Brasso works very well on scratched cds, I've got a couple that were > unplayable/readable > and now look and play like new. Requires patience. I don't > recommend power > tools in this > application though I have resorted to putting the cd in a holder on a > variable speed drill for really > heavy scratching that was going to take forever by hand. > That worked, with > a chux and plenty of > brasso. > > Cheers > > Geoff in Oz > > > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020902/7ad66c2a/attachment.html From donm at cts.com Mon Sep 2 22:37:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Doug Jackson wrote: > This sort of reminds me that the village isn't quite so global...Even though > the marketing says so... > > Brasso is an Australian Trademark. It may not exist elsewhere. Well, our military folks were well acquainted with it in WWII. Just the thing for buttons and bright work, you know. - don > Doug Jackson > MSS Operations Manager > Citadel Securix > (02) 6290 9011 (Ph) > (02) 6262 6152 (Fax) > (0414) 986 878 (mobile) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Geoff Roberts [mailto:geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 12:19 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:14 AM > > Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup > > > > > > > >I've found that 'Brasso' applied by hand can descratch a CD > > > >that was unreadable due to serious scratching and make it > > > >useable. > > > > > > What's Brasso? > > > > Liquid brass polish. Been around forever. There is a > > companion product for > > silver called, oddly enough, Silvo which is a bit finer in > > composition I > > believe. > > Brasso works very well on scratched cds, I've got a couple that were > > unplayable/readable > > and now look and play like new. Requires patience. I don't > > recommend power > > tools in this > > application though I have resorted to putting the cd in a holder on a > > variable speed drill for really > > heavy scratching that was going to take forever by hand. > > That worked, with > > a chux and plenty of > > brasso. > > > > Cheers > > > > Geoff in Oz > > > > > > > > > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. > > Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. > http://www.citadel.com.au > > From fernande at internet1.net Mon Sep 2 23:13:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D7436D0.6090809@internet1.net> Doug Jackson wrote: > This sort of reminds me that the village isn't quite so global...Even > though the marketing says so... > > Brasso is an Australian Trademark. It may not exist elsewhere. > > > Doug Jackson I would imagine that it is Trademarked in several places. Trademarks don't go beyond borders do they? We certainly have Brasso in the US. It's one of those products that's been around forever. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mythtech at mac.com Mon Sep 2 23:44:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >Small tin with white pop off cap, tin is covered in blue and white, >thick white stuff pours out of it on cloth and rubbed on tanished >metals to get it bright again. Sounds like a product around here called Noxon which I use all the time to restore metals. Since I already have some Noxon I'll give it a try on a CD before I hunt and see if I can find Brasso (since Chad says it's available here in the US). Now to burn a CD, and scratch it up to see if it works. Thanks -chris From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Sep 2 23:51:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: <3D7436D0.6090809@internet1.net> Message-ID: <00a001c25305$870922e0$863ecd18@D73KSM11> > I would imagine that it is Trademarked in several places. Trademarks > don't go beyond borders do they? > > We certainly have Brasso in the US. It's one of those products that's > been around forever. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > Here's more info than you want to know. The mark is owned by Reckitt & Colman, now known as Reckitt Benckiser, and fka Reckitt & Sons, a UK company. According to the company website, it opened its first foreign office in Australia in 1886. (http://www.reckitt.com/about/history.cfm) Brasso was originally launched in 1905. The U.S. registration from the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office website (see http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=gs1u66.2.1) is below. Note the first use in commerce date: Word Mark BRASSO Goods and Services IC 003. US 004. G & S: polish for pewter, brass, chrome, copper and stainless steel. FIRST USE: 19050900. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19050900 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 74138002 Filing Date February 11, 1991 Published for Opposition October 22, 1991 Registration Number 1671556 Registration Date January 14, 1992 Owner (REGISTRANT) RECKITT & COLMAN INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE 1655 Valley Road Wayne NEW JERSEY 07470 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Prior Registrations 0068712 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20020227. Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20020227 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE From PHardwick at cybersols.com.au Tue Sep 3 02:06:01 2002 From: PHardwick at cybersols.com.au (Paul Hardwick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Novell 68b File Server Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020901173433.01d49c48@mail.cybersols.com.au> Hi All, I would like to contact Marvin Johnston who posted a message on Sun, 07 Jul 2002 16:52:49 in regards to parts of a computer collection that he was selling. I am interested in getting hold of a Novell 68b File Server (this was the one with the Motarola 68000 CPU). Could Marvin, or anyone that has one of these for sale please email me at PHardwick@cybersols.com.au. I am currently in the USA and not Australia as my email domain would suggest. Many thanks and Kind Regards, Paul. From vance at neurotica.com Tue Sep 3 02:06:18 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <20020901162823.OPBJ19732.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Mike wrote: > >I am currently trying to figure out how to clean/salvage books that were > >exposed to the water, and since the texts are irreplaceable, I'm hesitant > >in what I try. Many books have a very fine powder-like mold on their > >covers, while the pages are ok. Some books have small amounts of mold > >growing on the edges of the pages. > > > Get the books into a freezer! > > They will freeze dry and the cold will slow/stop the mold growth. > > A few libraries around here have suffed broken pipes and that's how they > did it. > > I would try to separat eh moldy books from the others but since mold > spores ar so small it may not be possible. It actually works best in a deep freeze. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Sep 3 02:06:21 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Hey people. Message-ID: I'm back. Peace... Sridhar From longshot at ptd.net Tue Sep 3 02:06:28 2002 From: longshot at ptd.net (Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: old zenith mod. zwl -184-02 Message-ID: <000801c25201$22717120$f490fea9@computer> Found this old 'puter that works..has power supply as well. Appears to have modem built in..."Zenith Data Systems Supersport...Any further info?..........Lane Roberts -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020903/0d064230/attachment.html From wienke_geoff at msn.com Tue Sep 3 02:06:31 2002 From: wienke_geoff at msn.com (Geoff Wienke - Raleigh, NC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II spare parts Message-ID: We are looking for a few spare parts: paper guide output tray paper support Have 2 units - now with broken components. Looking for a source to buy these parts. Regards, Geoff wienke_geoff@msn.com From tsm at palindrome.org Tue Sep 3 02:06:44 2002 From: tsm at palindrome.org (Terry Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Free MacUser Magazines ('91 - 97') Austin, TX Message-ID: <001f01c252b0$b92979a0$0201a8c0@nairobi> I have approximately 100 issues of MacUser from 1991 - 1997. Anybody collect these? Free for pickup in Austin, or will ship at your expense (book rate). Will put in dumpster if nobody wants. Thanks, Terry From tsm at palindrome.org Tue Sep 3 02:06:47 2002 From: tsm at palindrome.org (Terry Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Free MicroVAX Diagnostics on 5.25" Disk (RX50) Message-ID: <001a01c252e7$04326610$0201a8c0@nairobi> I have three sets of MicroVAX Dagnostics V2.1 on 5.25" disks. Also, I have one box of 10 unused RX50 disks. Anybody interested? Free to whoever will pay postage. Thanks, Terry From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Tue Sep 3 03:13:04 2002 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:04 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives Message-ID: <01KM1PWD5C1E90MVDB@cc.usu.edu> Tim Linder asked: > Did anybody ever market a floppy disk system that communicated via > RS-232? The floppies for the Epson Geneva (PX-8) communicated via RS-232. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From als at thangorodrim.de Tue Sep 3 04:48:00 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020903094713.GA9724@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 06:03:48PM -0400, Chris wrote: > >There's a product called "Disc Doctor" that's supposed to clean > >mold/mildew from vinyl LPs, as well as other aspects of cleaning them; > >from what I've read, this cleaning solution was created by a chemist > >who spent years researching and creating it. > > Don't confuse this with the "Disc Doctor" for CDs. The CD thing will > destroy your discs. It is a hand crank unit that the CD clips into, and > comes with a spray on chemical. You are supposed to use it with badly > scratched or dirtied CDs. Spray the fluid on, clip it into the hand > crank, and turn the crank. Then it rebuffs the CD surface, and "grinds" a > new coat on it to remove sratches. > > Well, I have one, and after trying to recover 3 CDs with it and it didn't > work, I decided to try it on a new CD (because I didn't like the looks of > the CD when it was done). It rendered the new CD useless. And was > repeatable on 4 more CDs (you know, just making sure I wasn't doing > something wrong). If you just want to recover the contents of an audio CD, you could use a very good CD drive and cdparanioa. I once used it on two badly scratched audio CDs which my CD player flat out refused to even recognize as audio CDs. But cdparanio got the audio off the CDs. It took almost half a day for each CD, but in the end, the result had only about 3 audible clicks in it - for the entire CD. For data CDs tough one is out of luck I'm afraid. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Sep 3 06:46:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Sep3.075217edt.119076@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >This sort of reminds me that the village isn't quite so >global...Even though the marketing says so... > >Brasso is an Australian Trademark. It may not exist elsewhere. Actually the US Navy used it for years. That and NeverDull. Haven't seen Brasso around much lately though. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Sep 3 08:48:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II spare parts References: Message-ID: <002801c25350$85575f20$70000240@oemcomputer> Contact me offline as I may have a source for you. jrkeysxxx@concentric.net please remove the three x's ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Wienke - Raleigh, NC" To: Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 6:48 PM Subject: Epson Action Laser II spare parts > We are looking for a few spare parts: > > paper guide > output tray > paper support > > Have 2 units - now with broken components. Looking for a source to buy > these parts. > > Regards, > > Geoff > > wienke_geoff@msn.com > > From dittman at dittman.net Tue Sep 3 08:58:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Hey people. In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at Sep 01, 2002 12:41:03 PM Message-ID: <200209031354.g83DsIo32403@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I'm back. Welcome back! I take it your project is done now? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From fernande at internet1.net Tue Sep 3 09:04:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Hey people. References: Message-ID: <3D74C146.40800@internet1.net> vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I'm back. > > Peace... Sridhar You were gone?? Haha, just kidding. I knew you were gone :-) CHad Fernandez Michigan, USA From dtwright at uiuc.edu Tue Sep 3 09:43:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo.. In-Reply-To: <10209010059.ZM19273@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10208292309.ZM17667@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <10208300033.ZM17790@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <10209010059.ZM19273@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020903144304.GB3559247@uiuc.edu> Pete Turnbull said: > > reply back stating that it had shipped with the 230/330/550 line of > > workstations, as well as being shown in some product shots of the > > Octane2. Oh, right! I knew that sounded familiar... I got one with the Octane2 I have at work, along with a keyboard of the same color. > > Ah, that makes sense. I've never paid much attention to those funny Intel > things that SGI plasyed with for a while, but AFAIR some of them did have > that sort of colour scheme. I wondered if the mouse had been from a > rebadged machine, but 230/330/550 sounds more likely. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From at258 at osfn.org Tue Sep 3 10:01:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Hey people. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Paxi tibi quoque. On Sun, 1 Sep 2002 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > I'm back. > > Peace... Sridhar > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Sep 3 10:37:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: QWERTY/Dvorak (was //c+ switch settings) Message-ID: Sellam asked: >Who the hell uses Dvorak? Yo. >A very interesting and unique feature to have >on a computer (anyone else know of a computer that had a switch that would >instantly change the keymapping between QWERTY and Dvorak?) Now this is *cool*!. Why didn't Apple include a Dvorak keymapping with the early Mac's, if they knew enough to do this in hardware with the //c+? Oh well, it's in there now, and ElectricDvorak exists for the earlier macs. I use it, love it, and strongly recommend it to anyone meeting the following criteria: can spend about 2 weeks of 30 minutes/day to practice -AND- ( is not a touch typist -OR- has any problem with RSI) It does, fairly reliably, generate a 50% speed-up in typing, with fewer errors. My wife, a qwerty touch-typist who then learned dvorak touch, reports that it does *not* interfere with qwerty touch-typing - she switches from one to the other with the only symptom being that she types about 30 seconds of gibberish before "locking in" on the new layout. I can't report from personal experience, because I'm a qwerty hunt-n-peck and dvorak touch. I'm at least 100% faster dvorak. I do recommend that you learn dvorak touch, because that'll accentuate the advantages of it, and because that way you don't need to rearrange the keycaps. A very useful demo is to have a Dvorak typist type while the "key caps" panel is open on a Mac. It's *amazing* how the little black dots seem to almost all flash on the home row... Available in modern Mac OS (as the dv or dq layouts, dq recommended because that way ctrl-x (cut), ctrl-c (copy), and ctrl-v (paste) are still one-handed operations). Available in modern Windows machines, look in the keyboard control panel. If you want to run it on an old Mac, let me know and I'll fix you up with ElectricDvorak (for sys 6.0.8 or later, I think) or the ElectricDvorak layout for more recent systems. - Mark From n4fs at monmouth.com Tue Sep 3 10:55:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: HP-9836A References: Message-ID: <00be01c25360$eaa14ac0$d2775243@n4fs> Hello to all - I am new to this group and hoping someone can help me regarding the subject item. I just purchased the unit, and even though it is ancient, I wanted, and still do, to use it to control some of my HP equipment through the HP-IB interface. I have no documentation on the unit at all, but, more significant, I do not have an OS. It has 2 floppy drives and ROM based Basic, but it wants a "system" disk. Any help or suggestions are welcome and will be appreciated. Thanks & Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 From mythtech at mac.com Tue Sep 3 11:36:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: QWERTY/Dvorak (was //c+ switch settings) Message-ID: >Now this is *cool*!. Why didn't Apple include a Dvorak keymapping with the >early Mac's, if they knew enough to do this in hardware with the //c+? Oh >well, it's in there now, and ElectricDvorak exists for the earlier macs. I'm not sure when it first appeared, but they DID offer alternate key mappings on the early Macs. I know for sure they were available in System 6. Dvorak was just one of a few alternate maps (most dealt with international keyboards). I think this showed up VERY early in the Mac System Software (may have been there from the begining, but I'm not really sure). -chris From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Tue Sep 3 11:45:00 2002 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: trailing-edge.com In-Reply-To: <3D6E4B3F.1030407@aconit.org> from "Hans B Pufal" at Aug 29, 2002 06:26:39 PM Message-ID: <20020903164545.3060318384@mudd.trailing-edge.com> > Bob Lafleur wrote: > > www.trailing-edge.com (and it's subordinates, like > > simh.trailing-edge.com) has been unresponsive for about a day now. Does > > anyone know if this is just temporary, or a permanent situation? It was a temporary situation, but unfortunately lasted for five days. Expect more disruptions on 6-Sep-2002, but I hope to be around to smooth out the destruction my upstream provider is doing to its routing tables. Tim. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 3 12:14:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Quick intro and requests In-Reply-To: <3D727D8E.26915.1E9FCBC@localhost> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020903130328.49474f34@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Try searching for NEC MultiSpeed. It was a V30 powered laptop and had many of the same features. I suspect the SW and docs would be nearly the same for both. Contact me directly if you can't find what you're looking for, I have some MultiSpeed manuals somewhere and I should still have the SW for the one that I used to own. Joe At 08:50 PM 9/1/02 -0500, you wrote: > > >> Hello, >> >> Just a quick introduction... My name's Justin, and I've been collecting old >> computers for quite a while now. Just joined the list today. :) >> >> Now for a requests: >> >> Among my collection is an NEC ProSpeed 286 laptop computer, which seems to be in >> full working condition. The only problem is I have no manuals, drivers, or >> utilities for it. I couldn't find anything on the internet despite extensive >> searching, and contacting NEC support as well as scouring through the NEC FTP >> site. My specific problems are I can't switch to the external video output, or >> activate the serial port, parallel port, or internal modem (which I think is >> 2400 bps). >> > I have a working Prospeed 286 and the various setup files. They used to be >available on the Australian NEC site. Check that out and if it's no longer up >contact me off-list. > >Lawrence >lgwalker@mts.net >bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Sep 3 13:17:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: '94 power mac looking for a home Message-ID: All, well, 2 years off-topic, anyway. A co-worker of mine is trying to find a good, preferably working home for a 1994 Power Mac. Send applications to me or sdykes@datasys.swri.edu . Sandy's not looking for any money for the machine, but has fond memories of it and wants to see it put someplace where it won't get trashed. Museums get preference, but let one of us know if you are interested. - Mark From rhb57 at vol.com Tue Sep 3 13:50:01 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Changes Message-ID: Had been un0subb'd for whatever reasons for a moth or two now and went to the Classiccmp.org site anmd see that all the off-topic, on-topic has been cured with a simple system (well maybe not simple for the admin anyway) and so far "I like". For now I'll likely lurk the list and see how things have changed rather than going back to regular conversation. I do like the changes so far, hopefully it will be just as nice between the 2 versions of the list. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Sep 3 14:53:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 03 Sep 2002 12:30:45 +1000." Message-ID: <200209030807.JAA21028@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi Doug Jackson said: > This sort of reminds me that the village isn't quite so global...Even though > the marketing says so... > > Brasso is an Australian Trademark. It may not exist elsewhere. Definitely British, by Reckitt and Colman, by appointment to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. Sold all over Europe... Sevenpence ha'penny a tin in 1939 acccording to the Army and Navy catalogue! Good for rejuvenating tired paint and plastic as well. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 3 15:43:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Intersil Intercept Jr (was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops)) In-Reply-To: <001b01c23daa$71cead20$0d62d6d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <20020903204336.40293.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike wrote: > > I just had to nominate the Intersil Intercept Jr. to the early laptop > catagory, Runs on batteries, fits in a lap. > > ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net Are there plans out there anywhere? I doubt I'll ever run across a real one. They looked kinda cool back when I was a kid, but at the time, I didn't understand what it meant to be PDP-8-instruction- set compatible (i.e., the implications of it, not the literal sense of "compatible"). It had, IIRC, some toggle switches, LEDs, and 4KW of SRAM, right? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Sep 3 16:28:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Looking to program a N82S181 Message-ID: <200209032127.OAA24918@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Bruce Thanks for the reply. I've found two people that have a DATA IO that takes these. I sent off for the ones that Jameco has in their catalog and it looks like they are fast enough for the application I have ( Olivetti M20 w/ Z8000 ). The 1K ones I got are Nationals and the 2K ones are Phillips. I'm still trying to figure out the PROM from the machine. There are some parts that don't make sense. The PROM is used for address mapping. Once I get it figured out, I can do the remapping I need to do. Later Dwight >From: "Bruce Lane" > >Hi, Dwight, > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 26-Aug-02 at 17:45 Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >>Hi >> Is there anyone that is in the silicon valley area >>that can program N82S181's? > > I'm about 800 or so miles north (southeast of Seattle), but I can program those if you don't mind doing mail order. > >>Also, does anyone have >>a source for or N82S181C parts? > > Yikes... No idea on that one. That particular part came from Signetics, and Signetics was bought out many moons ago by Phillips. > > You might try plugging the device number into the Google search engine and see what happens. > > My programming rates are on my web site at http://www.bluefeathertech.com/devices.html > > Let me know if you want to do the programming. > > Thanks much. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >"I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior >to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 3 16:48:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: id this Digital card? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020903172753.3d4f6d5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found this while scrounging this past weekend. It's marked "Digital" and "LG Controller" and "5016948 01 F1". Besides plenty of SSI ICs, it contains an 8255, 8 27256 EPROMs and an Intel 80186 and a 50 pin ribbon cable header. It measures 11 1/2" deep x 10" wide and looks similar to a Multibus card with one wide and one narrow card edge connector. (the wide connector is only used for ground). I searched the on-line DEC Field Guide and Google but didn't find anything that sounded like it. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 3 16:48:11 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020903165701.597f4d06@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:37 PM 9/2/02 -0700, Don wrote: >> Brasso is an Australian Trademark. It may not exist elsewhere. > >Well, our military folks were well acquainted with it in WWII. Just the >thing for buttons and bright work, you know. > It's STILL around, I got plenty of experience with it in VietNam era and one of my kids is using it today in ROTC. The stuff is MANDATORY to anyone in the military. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 3 16:48:24 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: HP-9836A In-Reply-To: <00be01c25360$eaa14ac0$d2775243@n4fs> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020903172852.597f997c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Mike, I've quite a bit of experience with the 9836 and the other HP 9000 series 200 machines. I'll go through my out-box and forward a bunch of messages regarding the 9836 directly to you. You might also look in the archives, there's been a good bit of discussion about the 9836 in the past including some just within the part week or two. Joe At 11:45 AM 9/3/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Hello to all - > >I am new to this group and hoping someone can help me regarding the subject >item. I just purchased the unit, and even though it is ancient, I wanted, >and still do, to use it to control some of my HP equipment through the HP-IB >interface. I have no documentation on the unit at all, but, more >significant, I do not have an OS. It has 2 floppy drives and ROM based >Basic, but it wants a "system" disk. Any help or suggestions are welcome and >will be appreciated. Thanks & Regards - Mike > > > >Mike B. Feher, N4FS >89 Arnold Blvd. >Howell NJ, 07731 >(732) 901-9193 > > > > From mlnealey at earthlink.net Tue Sep 3 17:02:03 2002 From: mlnealey at earthlink.net (Mike & Yvonne Nealey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: VMS stuff... Message-ID: <001f01c25395$2ee7a240$0b01a8c0@wintermute> Hi All, Quick question, does anyone know where to get the associated install kits to go with the OpenVMS Hobbyist License PAKs? In order to run VMS on these classic VAXen (3100/m76, etc...) I need a resource for the layered products. ( macro32/64, pascal, etc...). Thanks, in advance, for the info! Mike N. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 3 17:28:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: VMS stuff... In-Reply-To: from "Mike & Yvonne Nealey" at Sep 03, 2002 04:59:29 PM Message-ID: <200209032228.g83MSuu26013@shell1.aracnet.com> > Quick question, does anyone know where to get the associated install kits to > go with the OpenVMS Hobbyist License PAKs? In order to run VMS on these > classic VAXen (3100/m76, etc...) I need a resource for the layered products. > ( macro32/64, pascal, etc...). > > Thanks, in advance, for the info! > > Mike N. The word on comp.os.vms is that the new Hobbyist CD's will be ready real soon now. Montagar software is sold out of the V7.2 VAX Hobbyist CD's, and the new ones should be V7.3. Your other options are to get something off of ePay, or to buy the CD's direct from Compaq/HP (tends to be very expensive). Personally, I use a combination of all three sources. Zane From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Sep 3 18:13:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Intersil Intercept Jr (was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops)) In-Reply-To: <20020903204336.40293.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Mike wrote: > > > > I just had to nominate the Intersil Intercept Jr. to the early laptop > > catagory, Runs on batteries, fits in a lap. > > > > ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > Are there plans out there anywhere? I doubt I'll ever run across > a real one. They looked kinda cool back when I was a kid, but at > the time, I didn't understand what it meant to be PDP-8-instruction- > set compatible (i.e., the implications of it, not the literal sense > of "compatible"). > > It had, IIRC, some toggle switches, LEDs, and 4KW of SRAM, right? > > -ethan The intercept had those, the Intercept Jr only had a keypad and numeric LED display. It only 256 or 1K (12 bit) words of RAM ISTR > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > http://finance.yahoo.com > Peter Wallace From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 3 18:20:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: from "Doug Jackson" at Sep 3, 2 12:30:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 124 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020903/ea0a14dc/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Sep 3 19:09:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Stuff available in UK Message-ID: <10209040111.ZM21949@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> It's that time again -- time to clear a little space. Here are a few things I need to get rid of, some are things that I part with only reluctantly because I've had them a while, some are things that have been replaced with "better". All have to go *soon*. PDP-11/23 in a BA11-N box (upgraded to Q22, so equivalent to BA11-S) with 11/23 processor, memory, serial lines, etc. This was the first PDP-11 I ever had, but it has to go to make room for an even more interesting one. Free to a good home: Dual 8" double-sided floppies in a 3U-high rackmount case with 240V power supply. 50-pin SA850-type interface. Very nice unit made by Baydel (of RAID fame). I might also have a Q-bus floppy controller to go with this; it was once used with the 11/23 above. PDP-11/24 system chassis (also 3U high) and boards, including CPU and KT-24 Unibus map, maybe some others. Trust 9600 SP+ A4 colour scanner and SCSI interface card, with documentation and floppies. Works well under windows, not quite so well under Linux/SANE. I might also have a DEC TS11 and TS03 tape unit going spare. A few assorted DEC (and other) bits available to anyone who collects any of the above. Lastly, my much-loved Star LaserPrinter 8. This is a laser printer based on a Canon SX engine, like an HP LaserJet II. Originally with 1MB of memory, upgraded to 2MB, so it can handle a whole page of graphics plus some extra fonts/forms. Parallel and serial interfaces. In very good clean condition, it's had about 26000 pages through it from new (I bought it around 1988). I'd like to get (a small amount of) money for this. I would consider trading any of the above for a Unibus disk controller, a Viking QTD controller, or a TU56 ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 3 19:26:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020902175923.0241d730@pc> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, John Foust wrote: > At 03:31 PM 9/2/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >Did anybody ever market a floppy disk system that communicated via > >RS-232? > > Sure, a number of applications used them. The Tandy Model 100 > early laptop had one. I've seen others that were used to record > and play back streams coming from 300-baud-era modems, too. I've got one of these made by Anderson-Jacobsen. It's one of the coolest data terminal accessories I have. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Sep 3 19:28:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <021801c252d8$5f86f990$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > It grinds a new surface all right, it grinds the surface right off! > > > > I think things would have to be pretty bad for me to use a grinding > > product on a CD. I do have what is essentially a soft pad (just to > > remove dust and prints and suchlike from the surface) and I have seen > > various "CD restorer" kits (these seem to be mostly fluids that claim > > to fill in the scratches and prevent them from interfering with the > > data readback ... I'm not sure I believe that!) > > I've found that 'Brasso' applied by hand can descratch a CD that was > unreadable due to serious scratching and make it useable. I've done > this on several occasions now, last time was for the art teacher who had > one of her favourite music CD's damaged by a student. Provided the > scratching doesn't cut through the top layer, it works if you are > careful... Just this last weekend, I was talking to someone about damaged CDs. They recommended a product called ScratchX, and said it could be bought at most automotive stores. I'm not exactly sure what the intended use for the stuff is, but I'd guess it is designed for polishing scratches from glass and laminated glass. CDs are made of polycarbonate plastic, which is actually a very tough material. Most plastic lenses in eyeglasses are made of the exact same material. Someone who knows how to polish minor scratches from plastic lenses (without changing the curvature/prescription of the lens) would also know how to remove scratches from CDs. I've not yet tried ScratchX on CDs myself, so if anyone tries it out, post the results. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Sep 3 19:42:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <20020902191527.GB22128@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Tothwolf, from writings of Sun, Sep 01, 2002 at 05:07:13AM -0500: > > > I also rescued a huge vinyl 33 1/3 record collection that needs to be > > cleaned up somehow. They were added to the dumpster (by mistake I was > > told) after the initial dive, and were subsequently exposed to yet > > more rain (Houston really sucks sometimes). I'm very worried about > > cleaning any mold from the album covers, but I imagine most of the > > vinyl is currently ok. Some of the records may have been broken when > > they were dumped into > > There's a product called "Disc Doctor" that's supposed to clean > mold/mildew from vinyl LPs, as well as other aspects of cleaning them; > from what I've read, this cleaning solution was created by a chemist who > spent years researching and creating it. I don't think any of the vinyl is moldy (yet), but some of the album covers probably are. *Thankfully*, AFAIK none of of the records that made it into the dumpster were Shellac 78 RPM records. I did acquire a large stack of 78s from the family this last week. Water would have mostly ruined those, so I think I lucked out. Sadly, about 85% of the 33 1/3 collection was what I pulled from the dumpster. Does anyone here know of a good place to get record sleeves? I'm on a limited budget (which is making things quite tough), so I'd like to find the best price I can. I'm looking for around 200-250 or so 33 1/3 sleeves, and probably 100-150 sleeves for 78s. Right now, it seems I'm working against the clock. Yesterday and the day before, I spent a total of 30 or so hours or so removing the remaining contents and workbenches from the shop. I haven't yet had time to throughly sort everything and such. Again, if anyone in Houston can lend a hand sorting stuff, I'd really appreciate the help... I did find some goodies on the 1st, literally on the side of the road. They are non-computer, but are still vintage electronics, and in near perfect physical condition. I'll post about them at a later date once things settle down some. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Sep 3 19:46:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > This is why I've given my parents (who are the most likely people to > have to deal with things if I pass away [1]) explicit instructions as to > what to do. Namely to contact another enthusiast in the UK who they also > know. And he, in turn, knows to look at _everything_. Hand-written > scraps of paper may be the essential diagram that shows how to reconnect > something. He also has a list of the most important (in my opinion) > machines that I have, so he knows what he must be able to find. I can certainly relate to the hand-written scraps of paper. I found tons of those (mostly important ones) when rescuing stuff from the dumpster, including some I wrote! One in particular is a diagram I drew up on how to repair an old audio amp that the family insisted on keeping for now. I haven't been able to talk them out of it, even though it is unsafe to use in its current condition. Maybe they want it as E-pay bait? -Toth From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Sep 3 19:53:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: DECtape success (was Re: Stuff available in UK) In-Reply-To: <10209040111.ZM21949@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10209040111.ZM21949@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <2700.4.20.168.181.1031100825.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) wrote: > This was the first PDP-11 I ever had, but it has to go to make room > for an even more interesting one. And what would that be? Don't keep us in suspense! :-) Al Kossow and I just got a TU56 DECtape transport and TC11 control working on a PDP-11/44 yesterday. We're using it to extract images of old DOS, RT-11, and Unix DECtapes. Before using the 11/44, we tried hooking the TC11 up to an 11/83 in a BA123 chassis, using an Able Qniverter. However, the 11/83 failed the power-up RAM test. It appears that the Qniverter is claiming some addresses in the range 00760000..00777777, believing that to be the I/O page. I'll have to look at the Qniverter manual and schematics sometime to see if there's a not-too-difficult way to solve this problem. Speaking of failed memory tests, a few days earlier I discovered that the 11/83 fails the memory test with one or both MSV11-JE memory modules (M8637-E) ahead of the CPU, using them as PMI memory. But it seems happy enough with them after the CPU, though, using them as normal Qbus memory. I'm not sure whether this is a configuration problem with the MSV11-JE modules, as I don't have documentation on them. I'm hoping it's not a hardware fault in the memory, CPU, or backplane. If anyone can lend us a copy of the MSV11-J user manual, EK-MSV1J-UG, or the prints, MP02056, it would be much appreciated. Same goes for the KDJ11-B CPU manual and prints. Al scans these sort of docs on my Ricoh IS520 high- speed scanner and puts them on his web site. He's already scanned quite a few -11 manuals and prints, but there are lots more that we haven't been able to find copies of. I was somewhat surprised when attaching the TC11 to the 11/44, that the two Unibus slots in the TC11 (in and out) do not seem to be interchangeable. I wasn't sure which was which, so I plugged the Unibus cable in one and the M9312 terminator/bootstrap in the other. The 11/44 wouldn't start up, giving the same message as when the grant chain is broken. I swapped the cable and M9312, and then it worked. In hindsight, it is obvious that the grant out of one slot goes to the grant in of the other, but not vice-versa. Aside from the DECtape, the 11/44 is configured with: 4MB of ECC RAM (3840KB usable) - four MS11-P modules (M8743) an RH11 Massbus interface, not currently attached to anything a CMD CDU-722 SCSI controller SCSI ZIP disk drive a DELUA Ethernet interface It's running RT-11 V5.3. We're using a Powerbook as the console terminal, though I'm likely to replace that with a VT420. In the past, I've used two different SCSI tape drives on the CDU-722, an HP 88780 9-track and an HP C1537A DDS-4, but neither are attached to it at the moment. I can put some photos on my web site if anyone is interested. I've got an AVI file of the DECtape in action, though it's not all that interesting to watch. The next DECtape project is to get it to read 18-bit DECtape format (as used on 12-bit, 18-bit, and 36-bit DEC machines). John Wilson just posted some source code for a program he wrote to do that. Longer term, the plan is to interface the TU56 to a "modern" computer, reading the raw bits and decoding them in software. (DECtape decoding software is available on my web site.) Last night I tried to install Alan Baldwin's TCP/IP package for RT-11 (the "small systems" client-only version), but the Ethernet driver doesn't seem to want to load. I guess that'll be the project for next weekend. :-) Eric From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Sep 3 20:01:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: CDC serial card for SGI... Message-ID: <015301c253ae$966b1410$3c00a8c0@george> Hi! I've just aquired a CDC 6-port serial card for my Personal Iris 4D/30. The model number might be CD23/3608, the ROM is labeled `CD83/3608-FW01 240757 V1.007 COPYRIGHT 1990 CENTRAL DATA CORP'. Anyone have a lead on the switch & jumper settings, or IRIX drivers? It looks like the ports can be set to either RS232A, RS232B or RS422. (I should look up the differences between A & B. I just donated a TI expansion chassis to Merle with a RS232B card in it) It also appears that the RAM can be upgraded from 16K to 64K, and it will take an EPROM of 64K (installed), 128K, 256K, or 512K. It should be a lot of fun to play with, I hope I can get it running. Built pretty good too, only turned-pin sockets. Bob From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 3 20:01:06 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Drive-95 RE: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020903210254.3d8742e2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Drive-95 is (was?) made by Sparcom and was originally made for the HP-95 then for the HP-200 and later for the HP-48. I won one at a HP conference a couple of years ago and Megan (the owner of Sparcom) promised me that I could send it back to the company and have it upgraded to later version. I've been meaning to do that. AFIK Drive-95 is still being made and sold. Joe At 10:05 AM 9/3/02 +1000, you wrote: >One existed for the HP-48 series of calcs. It was called (I think) >drive-95. > >The device used serial, and kermit to communicate with the calc for program >storage. > >(I *reallllly* wanted one of those...) > > > >Doug Jackson >MSS Operations Manager >Citadel Securix >(02) 6290 9011 (Ph) >(02) 6262 6152 (Fax) >(0414) 986 878 (mobile) > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 8:40 AM >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Re: Serial floppy drives >> >> >> On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, tim lindner wrote: >> > Did anybody ever market a floppy disk system that communicated via >> > RS-232? >> >> Yes, but, ... >> Only one really "caught on" >> Radio Shack "Portable Disk Drive" was sold for the Model 100. >> It was serial, but not quite RS-232. The first version was >> Single-Density? on a 3.5" disk. >> >> > > >CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual >sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. > >Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. >http://www.citadel.com.au > > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\RESerial.htm" > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Sep 3 20:11:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020903210254.3d8742e2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: If you're not locked in to Serial, consider parallel. A number of outfits, including MicroSolutions ("Backpack") made parallel port external drives, including 1.4M, 2.8M, and CD-ROMs. Floptical drives are SCSI, and will also read/write 1.4M. There are a variety of parallel to SCSI solutions, such as Adaptec (Trantor) "Mini-SCSI". From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Sep 3 20:12:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I don't think any of the vinyl is moldy (yet), but some of the album > covers probably are. *Thankfully*, AFAIK none of of the records that made > it into the dumpster were Shellac 78 RPM records. Don't fret too much about the 78s - they are still incredibly common (except the large 78s, typically pressed on one side only). > Does anyone here know of a good place to get record sleeves? I'm on a > limited budget (which is making things quite tough), so I'd like to find > the best price I can. I'm looking for around 200-250 or so 33 1/3 sleeves, > and probably 100-150 sleeves for 78s. Go to your local _good_ record store - the type that does not carry the major labels, and is often filled with industrial noise, punk, or something else to scare away customers. Most carry a good selection of sleeves, liners, labels, boxes, etc.. Prices will mostly be the same, so it probably is not worth shopping around. Sleeves for 78s might be a problem (check antique stores), as many people store them in wire racks, with no sleeves. Dust on 78s just is not that much of an issue. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Sep 3 21:00:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > I don't think any of the vinyl is moldy (yet), but some of the album > > covers probably are. *Thankfully*, AFAIK none of of the records that > > made it into the dumpster were Shellac 78 RPM records. > > Don't fret too much about the 78s - they are still incredibly common > (except the large 78s, typically pressed on one side only). I'm not too worried about them, since they didn't get wet. I think they are about 10", and most seem to date quite old. I also have a large stack of home recorded 78s. They range in size from about 6-10". > > Does anyone here know of a good place to get record sleeves? I'm on a > > limited budget (which is making things quite tough), so I'd like to > > find the best price I can. I'm looking for around 200-250 or so 33 1/3 > > sleeves, and probably 100-150 sleeves for 78s. > > Go to your local _good_ record store - the type that does not carry the > major labels, and is often filled with industrial noise, punk, or > something else to scare away customers. Most carry a good selection of > sleeves, liners, labels, boxes, etc.. Prices will mostly be the same, so > it probably is not worth shopping around. Well, we don't exactly have many (if any?) of those in Houston anymore. I'll do some more checking though. > Sleeves for 78s might be a problem (check antique stores), as many > people store them in wire racks, with no sleeves. Dust on 78s just is > not that much of an issue. Are you thinking of 45s? I've never heard of storing fragile 78s in wire racks... -Toth From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Sep 3 21:12:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm not too worried about them, since they didn't get wet. I think they > are about 10", and most seem to date quite old. I also have a large stack > of home recorded 78s. They range in size from about 6-10". Big ones are 12 inches, I think. Maybe 14. > Well, we don't exactly have many (if any?) of those in Houston anymore. > I'll do some more checking though. There are likely dozens - they just tend to stay very hidden. > Are you thinking of 45s? I've never heard of storing fragile 78s in wire > racks... 78 racks have wider "slots". Another thing you might do is go to the interesting record shops and ask if they have any of the old albums for 78s - and I mean a real album. They look like books, with each "page" being a sleeve. More than not they have one record missing (it seems), so you could possibly get them very cheap. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Sep 3 21:20:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Intersil Intercept Jr (was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020904022052.93835.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> I think it used unobtainium type RAM and ROM, being all early Intersil CMOS, so it might be very difficult to make an "authentic" one today even if you had a 6100. The 6100 was, given my limited knowledge, harder to make truly PDP8/e compatible than the later 6120. I've looked around for a ROM listing or front panel code for the 6100/Intercept with no luck. --- "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > --- Mike wrote: > > > > > > I just had to nominate the Intersil Intercept > Jr. to the early laptop > > > catagory, Runs on batteries, fits in a lap. > > > > > > ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > > > Are there plans out there anywhere? I doubt I'll > ever run across > > a real one. They looked kinda cool back when I > was a kid, but at > > the time, I didn't understand what it meant to be > PDP-8-instruction- > > set compatible (i.e., the implications of it, not > the literal sense > > of "compatible"). > > > > It had, IIRC, some toggle switches, LEDs, and 4KW > of SRAM, right? > > > > -ethan > > The intercept had those, the Intercept Jr only had a > keypad and numeric LED > display. It only 256 or 1K (12 bit) words of RAM > ISTR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > > http://finance.yahoo.com > > > > Peter Wallace > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From mythtech at mac.com Tue Sep 3 21:34:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >Are you thinking of 45s? I've never heard of storing fragile 78s in wire >racks... I have some ceramic 78's stored in wire racks. They go to my Victrola. I confiscated them that way from my father (when I repaired the Victrola many years ago), but I remember growing up they were always stored that way in the basement. I can't say however if my father put them that way, or if he got them that way from my grandmother when he confiscated the Victrola from her (with intention of repairing it, but he didn't, instead it sat in the foyer for 15 years before I decided to see if I could get it going). I haven't dared change their storage method simply because I am afraid of breaking them, and I figure if they have made it about 30 years this way, they should be able to make it another 30. -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Sep 3 22:12:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > I'm not too worried about them, since they didn't get wet. I think > > they are about 10", and most seem to date quite old. I also have a > > large stack of home recorded 78s. They range in size from about 6-10". > > Big ones are 12 inches, I think. Maybe 14. Ok. I'm not sure what size the ones I have are, but I'll have to look. I know they are slightly smaller than a 33. > > Well, we don't exactly have many (if any?) of those in Houston > > anymore. I'll do some more checking though. > > There are likely dozens - they just tend to stay very hidden. That would make sense. I'll certainly check around. > > Are you thinking of 45s? I've never heard of storing fragile 78s in > > wire racks... > > 78 racks have wider "slots". > > Another thing you might do is go to the interesting record shops and ask > if they have any of the old albums for 78s - and I mean a real album. > They look like books, with each "page" being a sleeve. More than not > they have one record missing (it seems), so you could possibly get them > very cheap. A number of the 78s I got are in albums. I'd still like to put them in sleeves though, to save them from a little wear and tear. Many of the 78s I got are loose, with about half of those in brittle paper sleeves. I also ended up with a couple of 78s with embedded pictures, which look to be in very good condition. I'd never heard of such records before. Anyhow, the 78s are the least of my worries right now, since they were never exposed to rain. I'm very worried about the 33 albums and sets, and am even more worried about the books/manuals and 100s of HARC ham newsletters. -Toth From rhb57 at vol.com Tue Sep 3 22:14:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <200209030807.JAA21028@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: Brasso, like the same stuff (wadding with smelly petrolueum compounds) that I used on my uniform brass in Army ROTC and in the active duty AF world to polish brass knobs (AF uniform "brass" was silverplate and didn't need Brasso)? Hmm...didn't know it was a non-US product. I also didn't know it was good for paint, thought it might do badly on the paint like a solvent. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Stan Barr Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 3:07 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Hi Doug Jackson said: > This sort of reminds me that the village isn't quite so global...Even though > the marketing says so... > > Brasso is an Australian Trademark. It may not exist elsewhere. Definitely British, by Reckitt and Colman, by appointment to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. Sold all over Europe... Sevenpence ha'penny a tin in 1939 acccording to the Army and Navy catalogue! Good for rejuvenating tired paint and plastic as well. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Sep 3 22:16:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Chris wrote: > > Are you thinking of 45s? I've never heard of storing fragile 78s in > > wire racks... > > I have some ceramic 78's stored in wire racks. They go to my Victrola. I > confiscated them that way from my father (when I repaired the Victrola > many years ago), but I remember growing up they were always stored that > way in the basement. I think some of the 78s I got went to a Victrola at one time. I know there was a Victrola over there that went to a family member, but I don't think any records went with it. I guess that dates those 78s even older than I thought they were. I had also noticed a couple had minor chips in their edges, and thinking about it now, they very well might be ceramic. I noticed an almost glass or sand-like appearance to the chipped spots. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Sep 3 22:30:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Brasso, like the same stuff (wadding with smelly petrolueum compounds) > that I used on my uniform brass in Army ROTC and in the active duty AF > world to polish brass knobs (AF uniform "brass" was silverplate and > didn't need Brasso)? Hmm...didn't know it was a non-US product. I also > didn't know it was good for paint, thought it might do badly on the > paint like a solvent. I've seen some silver plated stuff damaged badly from Brasso, so I know its not for use on such things. I'd always heard it was for use on brass only. -Toth From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 3 23:22:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: Intersil Intercept Jr (was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops)) In-Reply-To: from "Loboyko Steve" at Sep 03, 2002 07:20:52 PM Message-ID: <200209040422.g844Mup10437@shell1.aracnet.com> You might want to check out the following project if you want to build your own small PDP-8. David Conroy has implemented a PDP-8i in an FPGA. http://surfin.spies.com/~dgc/pdp8x/ I might have some info on the 6100, I'll have to try and remember. I've got databooks from them and I believe Harris that list it. Zane > > I think it used unobtainium type RAM and ROM, being > all early Intersil CMOS, so it might be very difficult > to make an "authentic" one today even if you had a > 6100. The 6100 was, given my limited knowledge, harder > to make truly PDP8/e compatible than the later 6120. > I've looked around for a ROM listing or front panel > code for the 6100/Intercept with no luck. > > > > > --- "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > > > > --- Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > I just had to nominate the Intersil Intercept > > Jr. to the early laptop > > > > catagory, Runs on batteries, fits in a lap. > > > > > > > > ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > > > > > Are there plans out there anywhere? I doubt I'll > > ever run across > > > a real one. They looked kinda cool back when I > > was a kid, but at > > > the time, I didn't understand what it meant to be > > PDP-8-instruction- > > > set compatible (i.e., the implications of it, not > > the literal sense > > > of "compatible"). > > > > > > It had, IIRC, some toggle switches, LEDs, and 4KW > > of SRAM, right? > > > > > > -ethan > > > > The intercept had those, the Intercept Jr only had a > > keypad and numeric LED > > display. It only 256 or 1K (12 bit) words of RAM > > ISTR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > > > http://finance.yahoo.com > > > > > > > Peter Wallace > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > http://finance.yahoo.com > From fernande at internet1.net Tue Sep 3 23:30:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D758C67.1060407@internet1.net> Tothwolf wrote: > I don't think any of the vinyl is moldy (yet), but some of the album > covers probably are. *Thankfully*, AFAIK none of of the records that made > it into the dumpster were Shellac 78 RPM records. I did acquire a large > stack of 78s from the family this last week. Water would have mostly > ruined those, so I think I lucked out. Sadly, about 85% of the 33 1/3 > collection was what I pulled from the dumpster. Shellac 78's? I have some old records, many are 78's. How should I clean them? Mine have been sitting in my grandmother's garage, and are a bit gritty. A few of them I washed with dishsoap and water. I stopped when it was apparent they were 78's.... that I can't play on my Pioneer turntable. > > Does anyone here know of a good place to get record sleeves? I'm on a > limited budget (which is making things quite tough), so I'd like to find > the best price I can. I'm looking for around 200-250 or so 33 1/3 sleeves, > and probably 100-150 sleeves for 78s. Record sleeves are something I'd like to find as well. I have most of the old ones, but am unsure if I should use them. As I mentioned before, all these records area bit gritty. I don't want to sand them down everytime I remove them from there old sleeve. One that I found may be worth money, it is a Disney Snow White record set :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Tue Sep 3 23:32:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D758CF1.5010706@internet1.net> William Donzelli wrote: > Go to your local _good_ record store - the type that does not carry the > major labels, and is often filled with industrial noise, punk, or > something else to scare away customers. Most carry a good selection of > sleeves, liners, labels, boxes, etc.. Prices will mostly be the same, so > it probably is not worth shopping around. Are records still being made? I aussumed everyone was playing there old, but very well cared for collections. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Tue Sep 3 23:34:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D758D6A.60105@internet1.net> Tothwolf wrote: > I'm not too worried about them, since they didn't get wet. I think they > are about 10", and most seem to date quite old. I also have a large stack > of home recorded 78s. They range in size from about 6-10". Home recorded?? I didn't know that was possible! > Well, we don't exactly have many (if any?) of those in Houston anymore. > I'll do some more checking though. I think all I have around here in Michigan are "Music Stores", not record stores. They specialize in used CD's I think. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Tue Sep 3 23:36:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:05 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D758DC1.2010904@internet1.net> Chris wrote: > I have some ceramic 78's stored in wire racks. They go to my Victrola. I > confiscated them that way from my father (when I repaired the Victrola > many years ago), but I remember growing up they were always stored that > way in the basement. I've never heard of ceramic records. Is this different than the old bakelite reocrds? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Sep 3 23:40:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D758CF1.5010706@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > William Donzelli wrote: > > > Go to your local _good_ record store - the type that does not carry > > the major labels, and is often filled with industrial noise, punk, or > > something else to scare away customers. Most carry a good selection of > > sleeves, liners, labels, boxes, etc.. Prices will mostly be the same, > > so it probably is not worth shopping around. > > Are records still being made? I aussumed everyone was playing there > old, but very well cared for collections. Some 33s and possibly some 45s are still being made, but AFAIK, they are not sold in the US market. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Sep 3 23:45:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D758D6A.60105@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > I'm not too worried about them, since they didn't get wet. I think > > they are about 10", and most seem to date quite old. I also have a > > large stack of home recorded 78s. They range in size from about 6-10". > > Home recorded?? I didn't know that was possible! Yup, made with a diamond stylus. The machine that made them (as well as a radio) is still in the home too. The friend that passed away built it into the wall with a custom cabinet. The family won't remove it because it would leave a hole in a paneled wall, and they don't want to replace the paneling. > > Well, we don't exactly have many (if any?) of those in Houston > > anymore. I'll do some more checking though. > > I think all I have around here in Michigan are "Music Stores", not > record stores. They specialize in used CD's I think. That may be the situation here in Houston. I know for a fact we used to have a few true record stores, but the ones I knew about are gone now. -Toth From fernande at internet1.net Tue Sep 3 23:48:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D75909E.1090702@internet1.net> Tothwolf wrote: > Some 33s and possibly some 45s are still being made, but AFAIK, they are > not sold in the US market. > > -Toth What market are they made for, the Japanese? Europe? I noticed that many of the super expensive turntables I have seen online were form these areas. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mythtech at mac.com Tue Sep 3 23:54:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >I think some of the 78s I got went to a Victrola at one time. I know there >was a Victrola over there that went to a family member, but I don't think >any records went with it. I guess that dates those 78s even older than I >thought they were. I had also noticed a couple had minor chips in their >edges, and thinking about it now, they very well might be ceramic. I >noticed an almost glass or sand-like appearance to the chipped spots. If you don't have a use for those, and want to part with them REAL cheap, I might be interested in taking some of them off your hands. Not that I am a collector of these things, but a variety of records to play on my Victrola would be nice (I only have about 20 right now, and most of those I am afraid to actually play... not to mention I only have a few new needles left, so until I can figure out a safe replacement, or a safe way to sharpen old needles, I don't really use the thing at all except to show it off to people once in a while... my 1950's Rockola juke box gets the bulk of the entertainment use, but that uses off the shelf record needles, and standard 45's, so its much safer to play away with) -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Sep 3 23:57:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D758C67.1060407@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > I don't think any of the vinyl is moldy (yet), but some of the album > > covers probably are. *Thankfully*, AFAIK none of of the records that > > made it into the dumpster were Shellac 78 RPM records. I did acquire a > > large stack of 78s from the family this last week. Water would have > > mostly ruined those, so I think I lucked out. Sadly, about 85% of the > > 33 1/3 collection was what I pulled from the dumpster. > > Shellac 78's? I have some old records, many are 78's. How should I > clean them? Mine have been sitting in my grandmother's garage, and are > a bit gritty. A few of them I washed with dishsoap and water. I > stopped when it was apparent they were 78's.... that I can't play on my > Pioneer turntable. I've read it is ok to clean them with distilled water and a mild soap, but I've also read that water isn't good for them. Had the 78s I got had been in the dumpster with the 33s, they would have been wet for several days, which would have quite likely ruined them. Btw, alcohol based cleaners will completely ruin 78s (they will melt). > > Does anyone here know of a good place to get record sleeves? I'm on a > > limited budget (which is making things quite tough), so I'd like to > > find the best price I can. I'm looking for around 200-250 or so 33 1/3 > > sleeves, and probably 100-150 sleeves for 78s. > > Record sleeves are something I'd like to find as well. I have most of > the old ones, but am unsure if I should use them. As I mentioned > before, all these records area bit gritty. I don't want to sand them > down everytime I remove them from there old sleeve. It seems most collectors I've read about like to store cleaned records in new sleeves, and keep the old sleeve in the album with the new one. It would stand to reason that if you clean a record, you'd want to store it in a clean sleeve. The really old paper sleeves are more abrasive than a mylar or rice-paper one too, which tends to add tiny scratches to the records. > One that I found may be worth money, it is a Disney Snow White record > set :-) Nice. I'll have to take a quick digital photo of the "picture records" I ended up with. Btw, is there a dedicated mailing list anywhere for this sort of topic? It does seem like lots of people here have an interest in old records, wire recordings (...got some of these and the recorder too), etc, even though such topics are not exactly computer related. -Toth From mythtech at mac.com Tue Sep 3 23:58:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >One that I found may be worth money, it is a Disney Snow White record >set :-) If complete, maybe, but don't be surprised if it fetches less than you think (well, maybe with eBay you'll get a good price). I bought a small stack (5 or 6) of Disney 78's at a flea market a few years ago. Although none were complete, and none were in mint condition... I only paid $20 for the bundle, and got a large stack (30 or so) of 45's in the deal too. Then again, maybe I just got a steal (all the guy was selling was records, so I assume he had some clue as to what he was selling) -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Sep 4 00:02:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D75909E.1090702@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > Some 33s and possibly some 45s are still being made, but AFAIK, they > > are not sold in the US market. > > What market are they made for, the Japanese? Europe? I noticed that > many of the super expensive turntables I have seen online were form > these areas. I have no idea, since I read about it quite some time ago. I imagine much info could be googled up about it though. Has a laser pickup turntable ever been on the market? I remember reading about R/D for one, but don't recall ever seeing one sold anywhere. -Toth From mythtech at mac.com Wed Sep 4 00:03:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >Home recorded?? I didn't know that was possible! The only time I ever actually saw a record recorder was on an episode of the Honeymooners. Ralph recorded a message for Alice on his record player. He made a comment about needing a blank record, and then spoke into what looked like a mini horn speaker. I assumed that since the Honeymooners was a "reality" show, that the device actually existed (and since I have heard reference to such a thing elsewhere). Anyone know what material the blank records used? I would think ceramic would be too hard, and even vinyl records seem like the material would be too stiff to get a good recording. -chris From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 4 00:05:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Did anybody ever market a floppy disk system that communicated via > > RS-232? > > Yes, many. Without even thinking about it, I can come up with... > > Radio Shack sold 2 models (PDD1 and PDD2 IIRC) for the Model 100, Model > 200, etc laptops Did everyone forget about the most obvious examples? The Commodore 1541 and the Atari 810 are both serial devices, no? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mythtech at mac.com Wed Sep 4 00:05:04 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >I've never heard of ceramic records. Is this different than the old >bakelite reocrds? Don't know. I'm not a record expert, so maybe they aren't ceramic. I was told that was the material, and I know they are a hard, brittle, fragile glass or clay like substance (from the one that I broke). These are 1910-1920 era records (based on the fact that they carry the Victrola name, and IIRC, my Victrola has a 1913 date on the back) -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Sep 4 00:07:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chris wrote: > > I think some of the 78s I got went to a Victrola at one time. I know > > there was a Victrola over there that went to a family member, but I > > don't think any records went with it. I guess that dates those 78s > > even older than I thought they were. I had also noticed a couple had > > minor chips in their edges, and thinking about it now, they very well > > might be ceramic. I noticed an almost glass or sand-like appearance to > > the chipped spots. > > If you don't have a use for those, and want to part with them REAL > cheap, I might be interested in taking some of them off your hands. Not > that I am a collector of these things, but a variety of records to play > on my Victrola would be nice (I only have about 20 right now, and most > of those I am afraid to actually play... not to mention I only have a > few new needles left, so until I can figure out a safe replacement, or a > safe way to sharpen old needles, I don't really use the thing at all > except to show it off to people once in a while... my 1950's Rockola > juke box gets the bulk of the entertainment use, but that uses off the > shelf record needles, and standard 45's, so its much safer to play away > with) *chuckle*, well, I don't think I want to part with them anytime soon (especially after all the trouble I went to to get them), but if I ever decide to, I'll certainly let you know...I know they'd be in good hands at least! I'll see about making a list of what all I ended up with once things settle down, and after I deal with the mold issue of the other items. -Toth From mythtech at mac.com Wed Sep 4 00:09:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >Yup, made with a diamond stylus. The machine that made them (as well as a >radio) is still in the home too. The friend that passed away built it into >the wall with a custom cabinet. The family won't remove it because it >would leave a hole in a paneled wall, and they don't want to replace the >paneling. I would offer to repanel that wall for them (even the entire room to make sure it matched) if it meant laying my hands on one of those. Is the family selling the house? If so, stay in close contact, and even talk to the realitor and see if you can arrange something with the buyer to take custody of the machine. -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 4 00:10:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020904051006.94567.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Did anybody ever market a floppy disk system that communicated via > > > RS-232? > > > > Yes, many. Without even thinking about it, I can come up with... > > > > Radio Shack sold 2 models (PDD1 and PDD2 IIRC) for the Model 100, Model > > 200, etc laptops > > Did everyone forget about the most obvious examples? The Commodore 1541 > and the Atari 810 are both serial devices, no? Serial, yes, but TTL-level sync serial, not RS-232. The C= IEC bus is quite well documented. I expect the Atari bus is, too. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 4 00:10:04 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: QWERTY/Dvorak (was //c+ switch settings) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > >Who the hell uses Dvorak? > > Yo. Freak :) > Now this is *cool*!. Why didn't Apple include a Dvorak keymapping with > the early Mac's, if they knew enough to do this in hardware with the > //c+? Oh well, it's in there now, and ElectricDvorak exists for the > earlier macs. Apple //c too. And the //e (with a hardware mod) as we all recently learned. > It does, fairly reliably, generate a 50% speed-up in typing, with fewer > errors. My wife, a qwerty touch-typist who then learned dvorak touch, > reports that it does *not* interfere with qwerty touch-typing - she > switches from one to the other with the only symptom being that she > types about 30 seconds of gibberish before "locking in" on the new > layout. I can't report from personal experience, because I'm a qwerty > hunt-n-peck and dvorak touch. I'm at least 100% faster dvorak. I prefer the Ismail Modified Accelerated Hunt and Peck Method. ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 4 00:16:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > Another thing you might do is go to the interesting record shops and ask > if they have any of the old albums for 78s - and I mean a real album. > They look like books, with each "page" being a sleeve. More than not > they have one record missing (it seems), so you could possibly get them > very cheap. I usually find these in piles at thrift stores. Try your local Goodwill, Salvation Army, St. Vincent de Paul, etc. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fernande at internet1.net Wed Sep 4 00:17:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D75975A.4000503@internet1.net> Tothwolf wrote: > It seems most collectors I've read about like to store cleaned records in > new sleeves, and keep the old sleeve in the album with the new one. The box that I have gone through had only 2 albums, but many individual records, in sleeves. Still need to get the other boxes, though. > Btw, is there a dedicated mailing list anywhere for this sort of topic? > It does seem like lots of people here have an interest in old records, > wire recordings (...got some of these and the recorder too), etc, even > though such topics are not exactly computer related. I don't know of any lists. I haven't looked. Seems the trend now days are those silly web forums. I do read a couple of Chevy truck web forums, but I'd rather have a mailing list anyday. Seems only computer folks have the know how to do a list :-( I think most "geeks" have some interest in many forms of geekery :-) I don't know if I would consider myself a geek, though. I'm not sure I like the term, besides I leaned towards the "nerd" side in high school, to some extent. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Wed Sep 4 00:22:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D759888.8090002@internet1.net> Chris wrote: >>One that I found may be worth money, it is a Disney Snow White record >>set :-) > > > If complete, maybe, but don't be surprised if it fetches less than you > think (well, maybe with eBay you'll get a good price). I don't have any immediate plans on selling them. It's just kinda fun when a found treasure is worth money :-) I may sell the set eventually. I need to figure out about cleaning, proper care, etc, before that happens. I'm really a record newbie. Sure, I had plenty when I was little, but I didn't exactly take care of them. I can't even play the 78's, unless my Fisher can play them. It's at my parents house waiting for me to buy a house..... it's in a console. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Sep 4 00:27:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D7599C0.9000003@eoni.com> This thread got me looking. AFAIK Sheffield Labs is still making vinyl direct-to-disk recordings. I'm sure that there are others. (But their Thelma Houston "I've Got the Music in Me" recording will knock your socks off! I see that it's available as a "Gold CD" here: ) As to how a vinyl recording is made... Just point your browser to: There's a whole lot to it... Jim Chris wrote: >>I've never heard of ceramic records. Is this different than the old >>bakelite reocrds? > > > Don't know. I'm not a record expert, so maybe they aren't ceramic. I was > told that was the material, and I know they are a hard, brittle, fragile > glass or clay like substance (from the one that I broke). > > These are 1910-1920 era records (based on the fact that they carry the > Victrola name, and IIRC, my Victrola has a 1913 date on the back) > > -chris > > > . > From fernande at internet1.net Wed Sep 4 00:27:17 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D7599C6.1080403@internet1.net> Chris wrote: > I assumed that since the Honeymooners was a "reality" show, that the > device actually existed (and since I have heard reference to such a thing > elsewhere). A reality show? Do you mean non-fantasy? > > Anyone know what material the blank records used? I would think ceramic > would be too hard, and even vinyl records seem like the material would be > too stiff to get a good recording. Was the frequency responce anywhere close to a factory cut record? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Sep 4 00:33:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > William Donzelli wrote: > > > > > Go to your local _good_ record store - the type that does not carry > > > the major labels, and is often filled with industrial noise, punk, or > > > something else to scare away customers. Most carry a good selection of > > > sleeves, liners, labels, boxes, etc.. Prices will mostly be the same, > > > so it probably is not worth shopping around. > > > > Are records still being made? I aussumed everyone was playing there > > old, but very well cared for collections. > > Some 33s and possibly some 45s are still being made, but AFAIK, they are > not sold in the US market. Huh? Yeah they are. Just take a look through some 'modern' music on cdnow.com... Lots of hip-hop and techno is released this way. Some DJs prefer to use vinyl, because it sounds better, and (IMHO) is just more fun to handle than these little optical digital pieces of trash :). I've purchased a fair amount of vinyl (modern) music from cdnow. There are even a fair number of 'real' music stores I've been in that carry new music on vinyl. So, yes, there is plenty of music sold on 33s and 45s in the US. You just have to go for the right audience. -- Pat From MSHLI at aol.com Wed Sep 4 00:35:01 2002 From: MSHLI at aol.com (MSHLI@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: Wanted Message-ID: <11d.16578655.2aa6560b@aol.com> We would like to locate some Matrox QG-640 graphics boards for Qbus. These were manufactured in the 80's. Is there still an appropriate bulletin board where this want could be posted? Thank you, Neil Rubenstein Neil Rubenstein, Pres. N&R Scientific Co., Inc. 201 592 1864 201 592 7027-fax mshli@aol.com From vance at neurotica.com Wed Sep 4 00:35:10 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: Hey people. In-Reply-To: <200209031354.g83DsIo32403@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > I'm back. > > Welcome back! I take it your project is done now? Nope, still going, but I have a bit more time now. Peace... Sridhar From schoedel at kw.igs.net Wed Sep 4 00:36:01 2002 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Ironically, they also accidentally trashed 1000s and 1000s of photos, >slides, negatives (both plastic and glass plate), and home movies. The slides and negatives are also subject to mold, since the emulsion is made of yummy gelatin, and should be left out or hung up to completely dry. The older ones are likely to be more vulnerable, since modern films typically contain a fungicide, and I would guess that color film would be more vulnerable than black-and-white. >I still need advice on unsticking/cleaning the >home movie films, since none were in water tight containers. Put them in room-temperature flowing water (e.g. a sink or bathtub that has an overflow drain, with the tap running) for about half an hour. A minute before you take them out, add a *tiny* amount of dish detergent -- dab your finger on the spout and rinse it off in the water -- or better, get a bottle of wetting agent for about $3 from a camera shop and add according to instructions. Unroll and hang up to dry; probably the easiest cheap way to do this is on a series of plastic clothes hangers on a shower curtain rail. Shortly before hanging up the film, run the shower hot for a few minutes to help keep dust down. Leave to dry at least 12 hours. (Obviously, try this out first with one relatively unimportant film.) -- Kevin Schoedel "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because I am standing in the footprints of giants." From fernande at internet1.net Wed Sep 4 00:41:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D759CFC.2030308@internet1.net> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Huh? Yeah they are. Just take a look through some 'modern' music on > cdnow.com... Lots of hip-hop and techno is released this way. Some DJs > prefer to use vinyl, because it sounds better, and (IMHO) is just more fun > to handle than these little optical digital pieces of trash :). I've > purchased a fair amount of vinyl (modern) music from cdnow. Oh Shoot, I forgot about the whole DJ/HipHop/twin-turntable scratching thing. I guess they have to get records somewhere, although, I suppose there DJ needles don't ruin records as fast as what an audiophile would use. > > There are even a fair number of 'real' music stores I've been in that > carry new music on vinyl. > > So, yes, there is plenty of music sold on 33s and 45s in the US. You just > have to go for the right audience. Maybe I'll have to dig around. I really need to get the stuff to align my needle, balance my tone arm, etc, first, though. I also need to figure out why my tonearm doesn't lift fast enough, before it moves back laterally, at the end of a record. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Sep 4 00:45:01 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: References: <65498.62.148.193.2.1030990155.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <20020904054550.GA29806@mail.er-grp.com> On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 01:38:02PM -0500, Doc Shipley wrote: > > Thanks, I do need the pinouts. Does yours have a 15-pin interface? > I've only got classiccmp going back to ~2000 but google saved me: (courtesy of Neil Preston, usenet) Pin 9 - protective ground - terminal chassis pin 1 - Signal ground Printer - keyboard interface pins 11-15 Pin 14 - CR busy; from terminal; lpTTL high-true when printhead is lifted (for test only) Pin 15 - DTR from terminal; EIA level held ON when terminal is on line Pin 13 - XMTD from terminal; EIA level held to MARK state when no data is being transmitted Pin 12 - RCVD from external; Receive data; EIA level held to MARK state by external device when no data is to be printed. Pin 11 - CDET from external; CArrier detect; EIA level held ON by external device when data is to be received on pin 12. EIA communications interface Pins 2,3 8 Pin 2 - CARDET from terminal; Carrier detect; EIA level held ON by terminal when carrier is detected. Pin 8 - RCVDATA from terminal; Receive data; EIA level held to MARK state by terminal when no data is being received. Pin 3 - XMIT DATA from external device; Transmit data; EIA level held to MARK state by external device when no data is to be transmitted. Current loop interface pin 6 - RL1 Input side of receive data current loop when current loop option is installed; otherwise, 3.3K ohms to +5v Pin 7 - RL2; Return side of receive data current loop. as above Pin 5 - X1; Input side of transmit data current loop when option installed. Pin 4 - X2; Return side of transmit data current loop. Pin 10 - P12V - spare EIA level held ON when power is on (3.3K ohms to +12v My 700 has a loopback connector for the 15-pin interface, which is needed when using the acoustic modem: 2->11 3->13 8->12 -- jht From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Sep 4 00:47:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. References: <200209030807.JAA21028@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <3D759EE0.3040509@tiac.net> Hey, After a small battle, and several hundred hand-soldered decoupling caps (the original engineers figured they didnt need any), and a few dead bugs, I've gotten an Imlac PDS-1 running once again. The original Imlac hardware design divided the main CPU and display processor up onto about 65 small cards with a handful of TTL chips on each. No ground planes at all, and the 'decoupling' consists of a 15 uf bulk cap on each board along with a ferite bead inductor. No high speed decoupling caps, with the exception of 3 chips on the clock generator board. With a few decades of age on the linear power supply filter caps, the logic supply noise was amazing, often over 4 volts peak to peak on the +5 rails. Small wonder the machine would crash and hang, its kind of amazing it ever ran this way at all. So a good deal of the work I had to do to get this machine running again was to hand-solder several hundred decoupling caps, one for each chip in the machine, more or less. I could have re-capped the main supply, but given the inductance between that filter cap and all those un-decoupled TTL chips, adding the decoupling caps at the end of those long power supply leads made more sense. After all, the nose at the power supply filter caps was nearly zero, while the ground bounch on each small logic board was quite large. Without a ground plane, the TTL chips had to seek a common ground through long thin runs of etch, so I added the caps as close to the power and ground pins of each package. While this is hardly original to the machine's original design, I know of no other practial solution to getting this rare old machine running properly, so out came the soldering iron. I still have a massive ammount of cosmetic restoration to do, but getting to see it run its "HELLO" test program with green vector-generated characters was well worth a few days with the iron and scope in hand. By the way, during my debugging, I came across a bad 7473. Its a odd little JK flip flop, and I'd like to find a replacement. Note that the 74LS73A is NOT compatible, its got a different truth table! Should anyone have one of these kicking around, please let me know. And now, its time to sleep.... From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 00:56:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Patrick Finnegan Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 12:33 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Huh? Yeah they are. Just take a look through some 'modern' music on cdnow.com... Lots of hip-hop and techno is released this way. Some DJs prefer to use vinyl, because it sounds better, and (IMHO) is just more fun to handle than these little optical digital pieces of trash :). I've purchased a fair amount of vinyl (modern) music from cdnow. There are even a fair number of 'real' music stores I've been in that carry new music on vinyl. So, yes, there is plenty of music sold on 33s and 45s in the US. You just have to go for the right audience. Glad I didn't get rid of my Technics turntable then, although I have a fair amount of analog/vinyl recordings on 33, 45 and 78 stashed that I play occasionally and got some more from my parent's estate last month - records we played when we were kids eons ago (60's mainly) From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 01:05:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I *think* they might be a bakelite-like material. I have a few older recordings that are the ehavy material you are talking about, I never play them since they are so old. Not ceramic but similar and an early plastic, used for light switches and insulators too. We have a Lionel train set that the locomotive's and car's outer bodies are made of bakelite, as is the cover of the transformer for the set. Not sure what the plastic ties for the tracks are made of though. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 12:06 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup >I've never heard of ceramic records. Is this different than the old >bakelite reocrds? Don't know. I'm not a record expert, so maybe they aren't ceramic. I was told that was the material, and I know they are a hard, brittle, fragile glass or clay like substance (from the one that I broke). These are 1910-1920 era records (based on the fact that they carry the Victrola name, and IIRC, my Victrola has a 1913 date on the back) -chris From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 01:05:09 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We had a 78 sized (12" I guess) video disk recorder and players for training new GI's on our missile systems in the mid to ,ater 80's at Chanute, I guess that's about as close to a laser turntable as I've seen. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 12:13 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > Some 33s and possibly some 45s are still being made, but AFAIK, they > > are not sold in the US market. > > What market are they made for, the Japanese? Europe? I noticed that > many of the super expensive turntables I have seen online were form > these areas. I have no idea, since I read about it quite some time ago. I imagine much info could be googled up about it though. Has a laser pickup turntable ever been on the market? I remember reading about R/D for one, but don't recall ever seeing one sold anywhere. -Toth From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 01:05:17 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My dad made one for his mom when he was getting ready to go to Germany during the Korean War and somehow it's disappeared fromt heir stuff (my idiot brother has it and won't confess). It's a small record made of that bakelite-type stuff and looks a lot like the records that used to be on cereal boxes in the 60's/70's where they were one sided and bonded to the cardboard, you cut the box to play it. He used to tell me that all the GI's made them, had them all over militayr posts in the US and overseas for a while, right next to the photo booths. My sons had (as late as the late 70's) small Golden Books that came with a thin vinyl record that had the story and sounds recorded (yeah they'll reall learn how to read if you give them a record to play instead - duh!) I have a feeling I stashed those away and might come across them this winter. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 12:03 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup >Home recorded?? I didn't know that was possible! The only time I ever actually saw a record recorder was on an episode of the Honeymooners. Ralph recorded a message for Alice on his record player. He made a comment about needing a blank record, and then spoke into what looked like a mini horn speaker. I assumed that since the Honeymooners was a "reality" show, that the device actually existed (and since I have heard reference to such a thing elsewhere). Anyone know what material the blank records used? I would think ceramic would be too hard, and even vinyl records seem like the material would be too stiff to get a good recording. -chris From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 01:16:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D758DC1.2010904@internet1.net> Message-ID: Ah you've seen them too but after doing some rading those hjeavy assed bakelite looking platters might actually be what they call shellac. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:36 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Chris wrote: > I have some ceramic 78's stored in wire racks. They go to my Victrola. I > confiscated them that way from my father (when I repaired the Victrola > many years ago), but I remember growing up they were always stored that > way in the basement. I've never heard of ceramic records. Is this different than the old bakelite reocrds? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 01:16:10 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D758D6A.60105@internet1.net> Message-ID: Get into the hippie section of twon, in theold biz districts and you may find junk shops that have records in a back section. I used to hit a place in Old Town in Chicago off Rush Street but the place caught fire and is no more, as of about 3 yrs ago(wanna guess who left the cannibus burning and fell asleep to a fire?) Everything the Tommy Chong look-alike had was original from the period the music was new in, no repros. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:35 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Tothwolf wrote: > I'm not too worried about them, since they didn't get wet. I think they > are about 10", and most seem to date quite old. I also have a large stack > of home recorded 78s. They range in size from about 6-10". Home recorded?? I didn't know that was possible! > Well, we don't exactly have many (if any?) of those in Houston anymore. > I'll do some more checking though. I think all I have around here in Michigan are "Music Stores", not record stores. They specialize in used CD's I think. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 01:16:19 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That was my thought as well but I know it does a bamg up job on restoring old chromed kitchen appliances, shines that dullness right out but wears the chrome of the newer chrome plated plastic items -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 10:41 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Brasso, like the same stuff (wadding with smelly petrolueum compounds) > that I used on my uniform brass in Army ROTC and in the active duty AF > world to polish brass knobs (AF uniform "brass" was silverplate and > didn't need Brasso)? Hmm...didn't know it was a non-US product. I also > didn't know it was good for paint, thought it might do badly on the > paint like a solvent. I've seen some silver plated stuff damaged badly from Brasso, so I know its not for use on such things. I'd always heard it was for use on brass only. -Toth From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 01:19:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've made sleeve from the vinyl you can buy in rolls from Walmart for putting over leaky windows - it's pliable and thinck and similar to the vinyl that our "forefathers" (and foremothers) used to cover their furniture with, but thinner. Fold it and then heat seal the top and bottom edges. I've seen forsted vinyl sleeves lik that in years past that came with an odd sized box that they could be stored in, sort of an archival manner of storage. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 10:23 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > I'm not too worried about them, since they didn't get wet. I think > > they are about 10", and most seem to date quite old. I also have a > > large stack of home recorded 78s. They range in size from about 6-10". > > Big ones are 12 inches, I think. Maybe 14. Ok. I'm not sure what size the ones I have are, but I'll have to look. I know they are slightly smaller than a 33. > > Well, we don't exactly have many (if any?) of those in Houston > > anymore. I'll do some more checking though. > > There are likely dozens - they just tend to stay very hidden. That would make sense. I'll certainly check around. > > Are you thinking of 45s? I've never heard of storing fragile 78s in > > wire racks... > > 78 racks have wider "slots". > > Another thing you might do is go to the interesting record shops and ask > if they have any of the old albums for 78s - and I mean a real album. > They look like books, with each "page" being a sleeve. More than not > they have one record missing (it seems), so you could possibly get them > very cheap. A number of the 78s I got are in albums. I'd still like to put them in sleeves though, to save them from a little wear and tear. Many of the 78s I got are loose, with about half of those in brittle paper sleeves. I also ended up with a couple of 78s with embedded pictures, which look to be in very good condition. I'd never heard of such records before. Anyhow, the 78s are the least of my worries right now, since they were never exposed to rain. I'm very worried about the 33 albums and sets, and am even more worried about the books/manuals and 100s of HARC ham newsletters. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Sep 4 01:27:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chris wrote: > > Yup, made with a diamond stylus. The machine that made them (as well > > as a radio) is still in the home too. The friend that passed away > > built it into the wall with a custom cabinet. The family won't remove > > it because it would leave a hole in a paneled wall, and they don't > > want to replace the paneling. > > I would offer to repanel that wall for them (even the entire room to > make sure it matched) if it meant laying my hands on one of those. I would too, but my funds are severely lacking, and the existing paneling is quite nice (it was custom made back in the '60s). The family would somehow like to keep that radio too, but they honestly have no sense of its value or know how to repair it anyway (it is currently nonfunctional, but I know exactly whats wrong with it). > Is the family selling the house? If so, stay in close contact, and even > talk to the realitor and see if you can arrange something with the buyer > to take custody of the machine. Yup, thats why they dumped most of the shop's contents into that dumpster. They hadn't quite finished when I found out about it, so I did get to go in and clear out the remaining 10-15% of the shop after I got through with the dumpster. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Sep 4 01:42:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chris wrote: > The only time I ever actually saw a record recorder was on an episode of > the Honeymooners. Ralph recorded a message for Alice on his record > player. He made a comment about needing a blank record, and then spoke > into what looked like a mini horn speaker. > > I assumed that since the Honeymooners was a "reality" show, that the > device actually existed (and since I have heard reference to such a > thing elsewhere). > > Anyone know what material the blank records used? I would think ceramic > would be too hard, and even vinyl records seem like the material would > be too stiff to get a good recording. I have 4-6 blank blanks that came with the other stuff. I think these are made of some sort of thin vinyl. I noticed they seem to be about half as think as a typical 33. They also have extra holes adjacent to the spindle hole, which are used to "lock" the record to the turntable. The recordables I have vary in their hole pattern, some only have 1 extra hole, while others have two or three. The records with two and three have their holes in a triangle like pattern with/around the center hole. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Sep 4 01:44:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D7599C6.1080403@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Chris wrote: > > > Anyone know what material the blank records used? I would think > > ceramic would be too hard, and even vinyl records seem like the > > material would be too stiff to get a good recording. > > Was the frequency responce anywhere close to a factory cut record? AFAIK, no, it was nowhere close. I could be wrong though. About half to two-thirds of the recordable records that I got that have been recorded on are labeled poor or bad for their sound quality. -Toth From mranalog at attbi.com Wed Sep 4 01:46:00 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: Intersil Intercept Jr Message-ID: <3D75AC13.2D7EFBD4@attbi.com> Loboyko Steve wrote: > I think it used unobtainium type RAM and ROM, being > all early Intersil CMOS, so it might be very difficult > to make an "authentic" one today even if you had a > 6100. On mine, the motherboard uses a IM6312 for the "microinterpreter" (dated mid 1977). And I assume that the three IM6561s are ram chips (dated early 1978). The rest consists of: 1 - IM6100 2 - CD4511 1 - CD4042 1 - F4075 2 - 74C74 1 - F40175 1 - CD4025 2 - F40098 1 - 74C42 1 - CD4069 1 - CD4011 1 - F4001 1 - 1K Beckman DIP Resistor pak 1 - 10K Beckman DIP Resistor pak 8 - FND 367 7 segment red LED displays 1 - 2.4576 MHz crystal 1 - 12 key keypad 4 - 2N2222 transistors 3 - 44 pin circuit edge connectors 1 - battery holder to hold 4 D cell batteries in series and a few resistors, diodes, capactors and a switch Now the "6951c-M1KX12" plug-in battery-backuped ram board has 12 IM6518s. > I've looked around for a ROM listing or front panel > code for the 6100/Intercept with no luck. Somewhere here I have the users manual and I am almost certain that there is a listing of the microinterpreter in the manual. Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog Analogrechner, calculateur analogique, calcolatore analogico, analoogrekenaar, komputer analogowy, analog bilgisayar, kampiutere ghiyasi, analoge computer. ========================================= From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Sep 4 01:46:04 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I've made sleeve from the vinyl you can buy in rolls from Walmart for > putting over leaky windows - it's pliable and thinck and similar to the > vinyl that our "forefathers" (and foremothers) used to cover their > furniture with, but thinner. Fold it and then heat seal the top and > bottom edges. I've seen forsted vinyl sleeves lik that in years past > that came with an odd sized box that they could be stored in, sort of an > archival manner of storage. I'd be worried about the PH of such material. Highly acidic (or even highly alkaline) materials are the enemy of items you wish to preserve. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Sep 4 01:54:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Kevin Schoedel wrote: > > Ironically, they also accidentally trashed 1000s and 1000s of photos, > > slides, negatives (both plastic and glass plate), and home movies. > > The slides and negatives are also subject to mold, since the emulsion is > made of yummy gelatin, and should be left out or hung up to completely > dry. The older ones are likely to be more vulnerable, since modern films > typically contain a fungicide, and I would guess that color film would > be more vulnerable than black-and-white. Most of the negatives were in plastic pages in binders, but not all. 99% of those are now back in the possession of the family, so I won't be having anything else to do with those. I've also already given them most of the slides. About 75% of those had been in 12-14 filled Kodak 140 carousels, and most didn't get too wet. The rest of the slides were in small cardboard boxes, though I doubt the family is going to clean them properly. Also, I think all of the slides use a cardboard mount, so *all* of them would have to be remounted after cleaning. Of course, glass plate negatives should *never* be washed. Water will flat out *ruin* them. > > I still need advice on unsticking/cleaning the home movie films, since > > none were in water tight containers. > > Put them in room-temperature flowing water (e.g. a sink or bathtub that > has an overflow drain, with the tap running) for about half an hour. A > minute before you take them out, add a *tiny* amount of dish detergent > -- dab your finger on the spout and rinse it off in the water -- or > better, get a bottle of wetting agent for about $3 from a camera shop > and add according to instructions. Unroll and hang up to dry; probably > the easiest cheap way to do this is on a series of plastic clothes > hangers on a shower curtain rail. Shortly before hanging up the film, > run the shower hot for a few minutes to help keep dust down. Leave to > dry at least 12 hours. (Obviously, try this out first with one > relatively unimportant film.) I'm glad wetting agents are inexpensive. I realized a few days ago I left 30+ bottles of concentrated wetting agent in the dumpster, and I tossed out another half dozen when I was sorting out other stuff. -Toth From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Sep 4 02:28:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: some observations Message-ID: <3D75B555.9DAD9A62@ccp.com> It has been some time since the OT rants took up the majority of e-mails, and now we get the spammers in the list . . . . I've noticed that I get upwards of 100 e-mails a day from you guys. Much of it gets disposed of if I have no interest, but on occasion I pick up some nice tidbits of information for future reference. What I've seen is multiple listings from the same person, who writes and sends, writes and sends, a sentence or two at a time. Sometimes I think one would be better off if one just sat back and composed a single post with all the details in one fell swoop. I'm sorry if this may have offended someone; it was not intended to. Just some biased observations and a suggestion to help cut down on some of the unneeded traffic. You all have a wonderful treasure of knowlege out there, just make the nuggets a bit bigger . . . please???? Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Sep 4 02:44:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: some observations In-Reply-To: <3D75B555.9DAD9A62@ccp.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > I've noticed that I get upwards of 100 e-mails a day from you guys. > Much of it gets disposed of if I have no interest, but on occasion I > pick up some nice tidbits of information for future reference. > > What I've seen is multiple listings from the same person, who writes and > sends, writes and sends, a sentence or two at a time. Sometimes I think > one would be better off if one just sat back and composed a single post > with all the details in one fell swoop. Well, from what I've seen, discussions are what tend to bring out those useful tidbits of information. I don't think larger posts would occur in that manner, because there isn't anything to discuss yet. > I'm sorry if this may have offended someone; it was not intended to. > Just some biased observations and a suggestion to help cut down on some > of the unneeded traffic. No offense taken here. > You all have a wonderful treasure of knowlege out there, just make the > nuggets a bit bigger . . . please???? Well, theres always the digest list... -Toth From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Sep 4 07:20:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D7599C0.9000003@eoni.com> from Jim Arnott at "Sep 3, 2 10:27:28 pm" Message-ID: <200209041228.FAA09700@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > This thread got me looking. AFAIK Sheffield Labs is still making vinyl > direct-to-disk recordings. I'm sure that there are others. (But their > Thelma Houston "I've Got the Music in Me" recording will knock your > socks off! I see that it's available as a "Gold CD" here: > ) I've got Sheffield Labs' Tower of Power CD. Excellent quality although it's a rather soft-volume reproduction. Still, no crackle. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- R. L. Ash ------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Sep 4 07:23:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: from Chris at "Sep 4, 2 01:03:00 am" Message-ID: <200209041232.FAA27940@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Home recorded?? I didn't know that was possible! > The only time I ever actually saw a record recorder was on an episode of > the Honeymooners. Ralph recorded a message for Alice on his record > player. He made a comment about needing a blank record, and then spoke > into what looked like a mini horn speaker. In Mission: Impossible's episode "The System," Jim records Rollin's voice, impersonating Mr. Victor (Val Avery), onto an LP master so that Barney can pick and choose from a dialogue tree. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "Eight tries. The number is ... seven." ------------------------------------ From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Sep 4 07:28:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: <3D759EE0.3040509@tiac.net> References: <200209030807.JAA21028@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020904072836.01b054d0@ubanproductions.com> Congratulations Bob, good job! I know the feeling of seeing that display come up very well. Jameco still carries the straight 7473 part. Maybe next time that there is a VCF East, we can link our two Imlacs and play maze war. --tom At 01:49 AM 9/4/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Hey, > >After a small battle, and several hundred hand-soldered decoupling caps >(the original engineers figured they didnt need any), and a few dead bugs, >I've gotten an Imlac PDS-1 running once again. > >The original Imlac hardware design divided the main CPU and display >processor up onto about 65 small cards with a handful of TTL chips on >each. No ground planes at all, and the 'decoupling' consists of a 15 uf >bulk cap on each board along with a ferite bead inductor. No high speed >decoupling caps, with the exception of 3 chips on the clock generator board. > >With a few decades of age on the linear power supply filter caps, the >logic supply noise was amazing, often over 4 volts peak to peak on the +5 >rails. Small wonder the machine would crash and hang, its kind of amazing >it ever ran this way at all. > >So a good deal of the work I had to do to get this machine running again >was to hand-solder several hundred decoupling caps, one for each chip in >the machine, more or less. I could have re-capped the main supply, but given >the inductance between that filter cap and all those un-decoupled TTL >chips, adding the decoupling caps at the end of those long power supply >leads made more sense. After all, the nose at the power supply filter >caps was nearly zero, while the ground bounch on each small logic board >was quite large. Without a ground plane, the TTL chips had to seek a >common ground through long thin runs of etch, so I added the caps as close >to the power and ground pins of each package. > >While this is hardly original to the machine's original design, I know of >no other practial solution to getting this rare old machine running >properly, so out came the soldering iron. > >I still have a massive ammount of cosmetic restoration to do, but getting >to see it run its "HELLO" test program with green vector-generated >characters was well worth a few days with the iron and scope in hand. > >By the way, during my debugging, I came across a bad 7473. Its a odd >little JK flip flop, and I'd like to find a replacement. Note that the >74LS73A is NOT compatible, its got a different truth table! Should anyone >have one of these kicking around, please let me know. > >And now, its time to sleep.... > > > From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 4 08:08:00 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: Intersil Intercept Jr References: <3D75AC13.2D7EFBD4@attbi.com> Message-ID: <001301c25413$3687b390$d962d6d1@DOMAIN> From: Doug Coward > > > I've looked around for a ROM listing or front panel > > code for the 6100/Intercept with no luck. > > Somewhere here I have the users manual and I am almost > certain that there is a listing of the microinterpreter > in the manual. My Intercept Jr is missing the microinterpreter 6312 (masked 12x1k rom) chip. But I do too have the ROM listing in one of its manuals. Anyone have any ideas on how to replace this chip? Thanks - MIke: dogas@bellsouth.net From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Sep 4 08:10:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D759CFC.2030308@internet1.net> Message-ID: > > Huh? Yeah they are. Just take a look through some 'modern' music on > > cdnow.com... Lots of hip-hop and techno is released this way. Some DJs > > prefer to use vinyl, because it sounds better, and (IMHO) is just more fun > > to handle than these little optical digital pieces of trash :). I've > > purchased a fair amount of vinyl (modern) music from cdnow. DJs use vinyl because it is easier to mix. Some special CD decks now have pitch controls, but they do not have a decent way to nudge the records at the correct times, in order to get things to sync up. This is all done in real time, and a mistake can make lots of people on the dancefloor angry (like the club owner). > Oh Shoot, I forgot about the whole DJ/HipHop/twin-turntable scratching > thing. I guess they have to get records somewhere, although, I suppose > there DJ needles don't ruin records as fast as what an audiophile would use. They also know how to treat the records properly. Gentle, gentle... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Sep 4 08:19:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:06 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > If you don't have a use for those, and want to part with them REAL cheap, > I might be interested in taking some of them off your hands. Not that I > am a collector of these things, but a variety of records to play on my > Victrola would be nice (I only have about 20 right now, and most of those > I am afraid to actually play... not to mention I only have a few new > needles left, so until I can figure out a safe replacement, or a safe way > to sharpen old needles, You can not reuse needles, nor can you sharpen them. With the acoustic-era machines, needles are used exactly *once*. Play the record, then pitch the needle. If you reuse needles, you will wreck the records. Needles are very available from several sources. They are quite inexpensive (they have to be!). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed Sep 4 08:40:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: Intersil Intercept Jr (was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops)) In-Reply-To: <200209040422.g844Mup10437@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20020904134027.64197.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> You can also build one from a 6120 (possibly easier to find), which can be found in DECMate boards among other DEC spares: http://www.sparetimegizmos.com I built one of these, wire wrapped: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/main.htm http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/pdp8e.htm It's a lot more fun than an Intercept might be, because it can run OS/8. --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > You might want to check out the following project if > you want to build your > own small PDP-8. David Conroy has implemented a > PDP-8i in an FPGA. > http://surfin.spies.com/~dgc/pdp8x/ > > I might have some info on the 6100, I'll have to try > and remember. I've got > databooks from them and I believe Harris that list > it. > > Zane > > > > > > I think it used unobtainium type RAM and ROM, > being > > all early Intersil CMOS, so it might be very > difficult > > to make an "authentic" one today even if you had a > > 6100. The 6100 was, given my limited knowledge, > harder > > to make truly PDP8/e compatible than the later > 6120. > > I've looked around for a ROM listing or front > panel > > code for the 6100/Intercept with no luck. > > > > > > > > > > --- "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > > On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I just had to nominate the Intersil > Intercept > > > Jr. to the early laptop > > > > > catagory, Runs on batteries, fits in a lap. > > > > > > > > > > ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > > > > > > > Are there plans out there anywhere? I doubt > I'll > > > ever run across > > > > a real one. They looked kinda cool back when > I > > > was a kid, but at > > > > the time, I didn't understand what it meant to > be > > > PDP-8-instruction- > > > > set compatible (i.e., the implications of it, > not > > > the literal sense > > > > of "compatible"). > > > > > > > > It had, IIRC, some toggle switches, LEDs, and > 4KW > > > of SRAM, right? > > > > > > > > -ethan > > > > > > The intercept had those, the Intercept Jr only > had a > > > keypad and numeric LED > > > display. It only 256 or 1K (12 bit) words of > RAM > > > ISTR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > > > > http://finance.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > Peter Wallace > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > > http://finance.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 4 09:27:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: Intersil Intercept Jr (was Re: Blowing Up Old Computers( early laptops)) In-Reply-To: <20020904134027.64197.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020904142716.31682.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Loboyko Steve wrote: > You can also build one from a 6120 (possibly easier to > find), which can be found in DECMate boards among > other DEC spares: > > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com Right. I have the DECmates (a DM-II that runs OS-278 from an ST225, and a DM-III that's RX50-only). I looked at getting circuit boards, but in the small quantities they've been made in, I just can't justify the cost. > I built one of these, wire wrapped: > > http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/main.htm > http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/pdp8e.htm That's more up my alley. If I didn't have any working PDP-8s, I'd consider it. > It's a lot more fun than an Intercept might be, > because it can run OS/8. True, but I already _have_ hardware that runs OS/8. The interest is in a battery-powered 25-year-old design. This isn't about "making a PDP-8". It's about playing with the Intercept in particular because I remember it and never got the chance back in the old days. As I said, I don't expect to run across one; I'm not planning on paying hundreds of dollars even if I did. I was simply curious if there were plans out there, mostly to read through them. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 4 09:36:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: <20020904054550.GA29806@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <20020904143559.75070.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com wrote: > On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 01:38:02PM -0500, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > Thanks, I do need the pinouts. Does yours have a 15-pin interface? > > > > I've only got classiccmp going back to ~2000 but google saved me: > (courtesy of Neil Preston, usenet) Thanks for digging this up. > My 700 has a loopback connector for the 15-pin interface, which is needed > when using the acoustic modem: > 2->11 > 3->13 > 8->12 I got a 745 for free from a buddy at Dayton a couple of years ago (same guy that gave me the two suitcases of Atari 800 stuff). It has the DA15 on the back, but no plug. I have tested the terminal in local mode to see that the keyboard and printer work, but I haven't yet made any calls to test the acoustic coupler. Do I need to manufacture my own loopback plug, or is that not required for the 745? Also, what's the concencus for preserving the rubber cups. Mine are neither brittle nor have they turned to goo. How can I keep them that way? Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Sep 4 09:41:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: <3D758CF1.5010706@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3D761A9B.7050402@jetnet.ab.ca> Chad Fernandez wrote: > Are records still being made? I aussumed everyone was playing there > old, but very well cared for collections. Yes. How ever they are not the $7.95 K-Tel records that we all remember from the 1980's. Most are limited production Hi-Fi stuff for people with deep pockets and pricey tube/valve amps. PS.I may pick up a $5 record changer for use with thrift market LP's. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Sep 4 09:45:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: Archival storage (was RE: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanu p) Message-ID: Look for companies that sell conservation (as in museum storage) supplies. Some that I know of are Gaylord Brothers, Light Impressions, and Hollinger Corp. They sell acid free (buffered) and inert materials for storing documents, photos, textiles, etc. You might also go to a building supply company and get a roll or Tyvek building wrap and make your own sleeves. More or less the same stuff used for 51/4 inch floppy disk sleeves. Only problem might be you would need to use an archival glue or tape to hold the sleeves together. -----Original Message----- From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:57 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I've made sleeve from the vinyl you can buy in rolls from Walmart for > putting over leaky windows - it's pliable and thinck and similar to the > vinyl that our "forefathers" (and foremothers) used to cover their > furniture with, but thinner. Fold it and then heat seal the top and > bottom edges. I've seen forsted vinyl sleeves lik that in years past > that came with an odd sized box that they could be stored in, sort of an > archival manner of storage. I'd be worried about the PH of such material. Highly acidic (or even highly alkaline) materials are the enemy of items you wish to preserve. -Toth From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Sep 4 09:47:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: <20020904143559.75070.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020904054550.GA29806@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020904104954.434f3744@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:35 AM 9/4/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Also, what's the concencus for preserving the rubber cups. Mine are >neither brittle nor have they turned to goo. How can I keep them >that way? Armor-All? FWIW I've been told that ozone attacks the rubber, if so then you probably wnat to keep it away from anything that generates ozone (CRTs, monitors, TVs, laser printers) and perhaps seal it in a plastic bag. Joe From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Sep 4 09:52:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D761D3D.6030007@jetnet.ab.ca> Tothwolf wrote: > Has a laser pickup turntable ever been on the market? I remember reading > about R/D for one, but don't recall ever seeing one sold anywhere. I remeber reading about one once being developed for the cylinder records of the 1890's. BTW I expect the internet would be a good source for new records. From lists at subatomix.com Wed Sep 4 10:28:31 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: BACK-OT: which CP/M machine is best (to copy)? :) In-Reply-To: <3D6AC2F7.21E6699C@topnow.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826163709.00ab49a0@mail.zipcon.net> <3D6AC2F7.21E6699C@topnow.com> Message-ID: <1218094759.20020904102829@subatomix.com> On Monday, August 26, 2002, Ross Archer wrote: > The *right* question is: what terminal-based > system would be good to use as a starting point/reference > design? (i.e. "rip off and modify" :) By the way, I think "OT" means _off_ topic. :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp Send replies to jss roach at subatomix beetle dot com. Debug first. From mythtech at mac.com Wed Sep 4 11:11:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >A reality show? Do you mean non-fantasy? yes, sorry, bad wording on my part. -chris From mythtech at mac.com Wed Sep 4 11:16:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >My sons had (as late as the late 70's) small Golden Books that came with a >thin vinyl record that had the story and sounds recorded (yeah they'll reall >learn how to read if you give them a record to play instead - duh!) I have >a feeling I stashed those away and might come across them this winter. My sister and I used to have something along those lines. It was a mini record player/slide projector. The records were hard plastic or vinyl, and they came with a stick with slides on it and a book. You would play the record, and insert the slide stick. The record would tell the story in the book (not word for word if I remember), and every time it would beep you would pull the slide stick up one notch (maybe pressed a button to do it for you, don't remember). Somewhere in a box I still have some of the record/slide/books, but the player is long gone. Some day I hope to find a new player at a flea market. -chris From mythtech at mac.com Wed Sep 4 11:24:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >You can not reuse needles, nor can you sharpen them. With the >acoustic-era machines, needles are used exactly *once*. Play the record, >then pitch the needle. If you reuse needles, you will wreck the records. Glad to know that. I have reused them before, but never more than two or three total playings (they go visibly dull VERY quickly, and unless they look nice and sharp, I didn't dare use them). >Needles are very available from several sources. They are quite >inexpensive (they have to be!). Humm... I've never been able to track them down. But then again, last time I really looked, was pre-internet for me (pre 94/95), so I'll have to do a search now that I have the power of things like Sherlock and Google at my disposal. -chris From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 4 11:54:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: <3D759EE0.3040509@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > After a small battle, and several hundred hand-soldered decoupling caps > (the original engineers figured they didnt need any), and a few dead > bugs, I've gotten an Imlac PDS-1 running once again. Totally awesome! I hope you can post some pictures of it. Is this the one you got from Tom Uban at VCF East? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 4 11:58:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020904072836.01b054d0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > Maybe next time that there is a VCF East, we can link our two Imlacs and > play maze war. Figure sometime between early April and early June for the next VCF East. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Sep 4 12:16:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. References: Message-ID: <3D764037.50502@tiac.net> Yep, this is the Imlac I got from Tom after seeing his PDS-1D at VCF. I traded an old PDP 11 and some spare boards for the PDS-1(a?), documentation and spare parts. Now I've got to get a way to load the 4K terminal program into memory quickly and reliably (my Imlac has had the core memory replaced with SRAM), and interface it to one of my HP minis! Of course the first 'host' machine that comes to my mind is my HP 2116C, simply because of the front pannel being such a cool match for the Imlac's programmers console... Pictures eh? Hmmm, I really ought to get some digital photos of some of my more interesting machines on line. Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > >>After a small battle, and several hundred hand-soldered decoupling caps >>(the original engineers figured they didnt need any), and a few dead >>bugs, I've gotten an Imlac PDS-1 running once again. >> > >Totally awesome! I hope you can post some pictures of it. Is this the >one you got from Tom Uban at VCF East? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020904/21154eaf/attachment.html From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Sep 4 12:18:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: Another VCF East!? was: Re: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. References: Message-ID: <3D7640DF.1020809@tiac.net> Another VCF East!? Very cool. I'll have to bring a much larger machine this time! Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > >>Maybe next time that there is a VCF East, we can link our two Imlacs and >>play maze war. >> > >Figure sometime between early April and early June for the next VCF East. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020904/5832acd1/attachment.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 4 12:42:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700's: Update In-Reply-To: <20020904143559.75070.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Do I need to manufacture my own loopback plug, or is that not required > for the 745? Some have a jumper (inside) that does the same as the loopback plug. > Also, what's the concencus for preserving the rubber cups. Mine are > neither brittle nor have they turned to goo. How can I keep them > that way? Ubik? Avoiding UV, ozone, and extremes of temperature and humidity will help slow down entropy. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Sep 4 12:51:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: <3D758CF1.5010706@internet1.net> <3D761A9B.7050402@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3D76481A.9050207@internet1.net> Ben Franchuk wrote: > Yes. How ever they are not the $7.95 K-Tel records that we all > remember from the 1980's. Most are limited production Hi-Fi > stuff for people with deep pockets and pricey tube/valve amps. > > PS.I may pick up a $5 record changer for use with thrift market > LP's. K-Tel Records, there's a name I haven't heard for a lonf time :-) Both my truntables are form Goodwill, one a Harmon Kardon, the other a Pioneer. I'm presently cleaning the Pioneer. The Harmon Kardon is on the closet still. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Wed Sep 4 12:53:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D76489F.4030302@internet1.net> William Donzelli wrote: > You can not reuse needles, nor can you sharpen them. With the > acoustic-era machines, needles are used exactly *once*. Play the record, > then pitch the needle. If you reuse needles, you will wreck the records. > > Needles are very available from several sources. They are quite > inexpensive (they have to be!). > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org Wow, that is something I didn't know. I have zero knowledge on acoustic era anything :-) That would be a pain. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Sep 4 13:07:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 04 Sep 2002 08:48:29 MDT." <3D761D3D.6030007@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200209041804.TAA02755@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ben Franchuk said: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > Has a laser pickup turntable ever been on the market? I remember reading > > about R/D for one, but don't recall ever seeing one sold anywhere. > I remeber reading about one once being developed for the cylinder records > of the 1890's. The UK magazine "Electronics World", which us more mature types still call "Wireless World", sells a cd of early recording transferred from cylinders. AFAIK they were done using a custom-built drive and a conventional tone-arm rather than optically. Tracks range from "Polka des English's", 1900, to "Doin' the Raccoon" by Billy Murray, 1929. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 13:14:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D76481A.9050207@internet1.net> Message-ID: I just traded my parent's old portable (yeah 3ft wide and 52 lbs) tube based Zenith turntable/player. The new owner is in 7th heaven with it since he has a collection of the Rat Pack (originals) albums that he hasn't been able to play in 8 or 10 yrs since his old unit actually caught fire. The Tektronix 454 scope I traded for the turntable sure comes in handy where the turntable just used space. I have a few albums with the K-Tel trademark/name on them. The really neat looking albums/records are the old Columbia Records - the artwork on the record label alone is a masterpiece. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 12:51 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Ben Franchuk wrote: > Yes. How ever they are not the $7.95 K-Tel records that we all > remember from the 1980's. Most are limited production Hi-Fi > stuff for people with deep pockets and pricey tube/valve amps. > > PS.I may pick up a $5 record changer for use with thrift market > LP's. K-Tel Records, there's a name I haven't heard for a lonf time :-) Both my truntables are form Goodwill, one a Harmon Kardon, the other a Pioneer. I'm presently cleaning the Pioneer. The Harmon Kardon is on the closet still. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 13:14:06 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: Archival storage (was RE: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And be very careful that the Tyvek for covering builings is free of dirt before you assemble tit - most of the rolls I just used had all sorts of dust from the manufacturing process, I'm sure they don't feel the need to clean or dust off building supplies since they aren't intended to be used elsewhere. I've had good luck with contact cement (same as you use for gluing Formica down) to assemble things on that order - stays for eons but you have to glue both sides, let it tack and then place CAREFULLY since once it's stuck it won't let go. Rubber cement just plain sux. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:46 AM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: Archival storage (was RE: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup) Look for companies that sell conservation (as in museum storage) supplies. Some that I know of are Gaylord Brothers, Light Impressions, and Hollinger Corp. They sell acid free (buffered) and inert materials for storing documents, photos, textiles, etc. You might also go to a building supply company and get a roll or Tyvek building wrap and make your own sleeves. More or less the same stuff used for 51/4 inch floppy disk sleeves. Only problem might be you would need to use an archival glue or tape to hold the sleeves together. -----Original Message----- From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:57 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I've made sleeve from the vinyl you can buy in rolls from Walmart for > putting over leaky windows - it's pliable and thinck and similar to the > vinyl that our "forefathers" (and foremothers) used to cover their > furniture with, but thinner. Fold it and then heat seal the top and > bottom edges. I've seen forsted vinyl sleeves lik that in years past > that came with an odd sized box that they could be stored in, sort of an > archival manner of storage. I'd be worried about the PH of such material. Highly acidic (or even highly alkaline) materials are the enemy of items you wish to preserve. -Toth From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Sep 4 13:15:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020904181540.GA3847@www.4mcnabb.net> On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 12:16:45PM -0400, chris wrote: > >My sons had (as late as the late 70's) small Golden Books that came with a > >thin vinyl record that had the story and sounds recorded (yeah they'll reall > >learn how to read if you give them a record to play instead - duh!) I have > >a feeling I stashed those away and might come across them this winter. When I was cleaning out the old Brunswich 78 RPM wind-up record player my Father gave me a couple of years ago, I found two records that had been cut off the back of a Wheaties box. They were cowboy songs (of course), and were quite probably cut out by my Father when he was a young boy. As far as needles go, I've found a place on the net where you can order brand new (!) acoustic record player needles in a variety of grades. If I can find the URL again, I'll post it here. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 4 13:18:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D76489F.4030302@internet1.net> Message-ID: > You can not reuse needles, nor can you sharpen them. With the > acoustic-era machines, needles are used exactly *once*. Play the record, > then pitch the needle. If you reuse needles, you will wreck the records. So,... are you saying that it is also not a good idea to tape a stack of quarters to the top of the tone arm to stop it from skipping? From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 13:19:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That's possible but so far everything I have ion them hasn't damaged anything - nor stuck to - any of the items I've put them in. The same type of viyl used for furniture covers would turn yellow and get brittle with age but my parents French Provincial living room furniture, covered since new in 1961, is pretty much a testament that this type of vinyl is apparently pretty safe stuff. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:57 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I've made sleeve from the vinyl you can buy in rolls from Walmart for > putting over leaky windows - it's pliable and thinck and similar to the > vinyl that our "forefathers" (and foremothers) used to cover their > furniture with, but thinner. Fold it and then heat seal the top and > bottom edges. I've seen forsted vinyl sleeves lik that in years past > that came with an odd sized box that they could be stored in, sort of an > archival manner of storage. I'd be worried about the PH of such material. Highly acidic (or even highly alkaline) materials are the enemy of items you wish to preserve. -Toth From gstreet at indy.net Wed Sep 4 13:20:00 2002 From: gstreet at indy.net (Robert Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #157 - 46 msgs In-Reply-To: <20020904170001.43080.78714.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020904132104.00b663b0@pop.onemain.com> Hello All, Back on June 9th of this year (Classic Tech Eletter #11), someone thoughtfully posted the paragraph at the bottom of this message (on this newsgroup). Coincidentally, I had already found the same S-100 computer and I eventually ended up winning the bid (I was the only bidder). I only very recently received this machine (it was slightly damaged in shipping, and it _really_ was filthy! (There was an enormous delay in shipping it to me.) I've got the damage straightened out and I completely disassembled it for cleaning. I just got it back together last night and turned on the switch. I seems to power up and the led's come on (led near the on/off switch and 3 led's on the backplane/motherboard). I talked to one person who said that he thought that he'd had an ISC computer before, but that it wasn't pure S-100. The reason that I bought this machine is that I have some Seattle Computer Products S-100 cards that I really want to get running. They drop in the ISC "S-100" computer _perfectly_, but I have not powered it up with the SCP cards in place. If there's something that's not "pure S-100" about the ISC, I don't want to damage the SCP cards. I just checked the link (below) and it still works. I think the link will disappear in just a few more days (90 days), so I can provide the same pictures to anyone interested after the link disappears. The reason it's taken so long to ask this question is because it took over 2 months for me to actually receive the unit (now the darned link is ready to vanish, probably on Sept 10th). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2029719366 I cannot find _any_ information about ISC Systems Corp., Spokane, WA. It's an absolutely beautifully crafted unit and from the filthy condition that I received it in--it appears to have been left running for, perhaps, _years_! The seller claimed that he'd removed the existing cards to install in his Altair, but if that's true, someone must have already substituted different cards--in the pictures, you'll notice a bunch of twisted pair and other small gauge wires: these all appear to hook up to what would seem to be "non-standard" S-100 cards, through proprietary connectors. I cannot fathom how the original ISC cards could have been of any use to anyone except a user of this ISC system. It appears that the "non-standard" wires go to things like: keyboard, monitor, a network and LP 1 and LP 2 (LPT 1 & LPT 2??). There is yet another connector that I've no clue as to what it might do. _BUT_, _if_ the box itself conforms to the S-100 standard, and if I can use the SCP cards, all the other wires don't matter, because they won't be connected to anything. I've really taken a liking to this machine--I hope I can use it! Any help would be much appreciated! Thank you, Robert Greenstreet gstreet@indy.net > >At 08:33 PM 6/9/02 -0400, you wrote: >CLASSIC TECH ELETTER, Vol. 1, Issue 11 > >It's too bad the seller gutted this ISC Systems S-100 computer. If it >sells close to the opening bid, however, the buyer will get a good deal on >an S-100 starter system. (The seller's right about the system needing a >cleaning. You could knit a sweater with all the lint stuck in the fan >vent.) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2029719366 From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Sep 4 13:27:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: <200209041827.LAA25568@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Chad Fernandez" > >William Donzelli wrote: >> You can not reuse needles, nor can you sharpen them. With the >> acoustic-era machines, needles are used exactly *once*. Play the record, >> then pitch the needle. If you reuse needles, you will wreck the records. >> >> Needles are very available from several sources. They are quite >> inexpensive (they have to be!). >> >> William Donzelli >> aw288@osfn.org > >Wow, that is something I didn't know. I have zero knowledge on acoustic >era anything :-) > >That would be a pain. > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA Hi The original Edisons all used diamond needles and could get thousands of plays. Many of the acoustic setups used cactus needles and one could sharpen them with a twizzle thing that had sand-paper to sharpen them. Dwight From mythtech at mac.com Wed Sep 4 13:36:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >> You can not reuse needles, nor can you sharpen them. With the >> acoustic-era machines, needles are used exactly *once*. Play the record, >> then pitch the needle. If you reuse needles, you will wreck the records. > >So,... >are you saying that it is also not a good idea to tape a stack of quarters >to the top of the tone arm to stop it from skipping? Since I only have the one acoustic player, I can't say for all designs. But my Victrola has a weight already attached, and a pretty heavy one at that, so I wouldn't dream of doing such a thing. As is you have to tilt the needle down into place gently or it will tip and slam the needle into the record pretty hard (hard enough to put a nice puncture wound into a finger as I learned from experiece). Although, I know of people doing that with arms for newer analog turntables. But then in every case it was either because the person had a REALLY cheap one, or they didn't realize that there was a counterweight on the back of the arm already (I've seen a few where the weight is under the plastic cover to the arm, so it isn't obvious its there... my Rockola jukebox is like that) -chris From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Sep 4 14:01:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT/Old Recordings/Shameless Plug Message-ID: I have offered audio restoration services for many years, from any (and all) types of recorded audio media - cylinders, wire, tape: paper, plastic, sprocketed, 2MM to 4"... etc etc. I restore damaged media and do forensic work. That being said, if any list members have a few bits of recorded stuff lying about that you'd like cleaned up and transfered to a CD, contact me off-list. Obviously for big and/or complex jobs we'd need to discuss a fee structure, but for the occasional disc, old tape, or spool of wire that can be rolled into ProTools and dumped to a disc... why not? I imagine that this would extend to data cassettes with FSK or other audio-freq modulation schemes, so it's not *that* badly off-topic. :) Cheers John From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Sep 4 14:02:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D7657E8.80509@jetnet.ab.ca> chris wrote: > Glad to know that. I have reused them before, but never more than two or > three total playings (they go visibly dull VERY quickly, and unless they > look nice and sharp, I didn't dare use them). Antique electronic supply has some. www.tubesandmore.com They are good for 12 plays each. Package of 25 for $1.95 From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 14:05:01 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <20020904181540.GA3847@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: If y ou come across a vendor that also sells new stylus units for the tone arms of turntables you might post that too - my long term source dried up last year -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Christopher McNabb Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:16 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 12:16:45PM -0400, chris wrote: > >My sons had (as late as the late 70's) small Golden Books that came with a > >thin vinyl record that had the story and sounds recorded (yeah they'll reall > >learn how to read if you give them a record to play instead - duh!) I have > >a feeling I stashed those away and might come across them this winter. When I was cleaning out the old Brunswich 78 RPM wind-up record player my Father gave me a couple of years ago, I found two records that had been cut off the back of a Wheaties box. They were cowboy songs (of course), and were quite probably cut out by my Father when he was a young boy. As far as needles go, I've found a place on the net where you can order brand new (!) acoustic record player needles in a variety of grades. If I can find the URL again, I'll post it here. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 4 14:14:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: <3D764037.50502@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > Yep, this is the Imlac I got from Tom after seeing his PDS-1D at VCF. > > I traded an old PDP 11 and some spare boards for the PDS-1(a?), > documentation and spare parts. Don't tell Tom, but I definitely think you got the better end of the deal ;) > Now I've got to get a way to load the 4K terminal program into memory > quickly and reliably (my Imlac has had the core memory replaced with > SRAM), and interface it to one of my HP minis! The PDS-1D I got came with the software and documentation for boot-strapping it off the serial port. Maybe you can do it that way? If I can find where I stored this stuff I can lend it to you if it would be helpful. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Sep 4 14:27:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: Tried RadioShack? -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman [mailto:rhb57@vol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 2:07 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup If y ou come across a vendor that also sells new stylus units for the tone arms of turntables you might post that too - my long term source dried up last year From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Sep 4 14:39:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: References: <3D764037.50502@tiac.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020904143524.01b26598@ubanproductions.com> At 04:15 AM 9/4/2002 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > Yep, this is the Imlac I got from Tom after seeing his PDS-1D at VCF. > > > > I traded an old PDP 11 and some spare boards for the PDS-1(a?), > > documentation and spare parts. > >Don't tell Tom, but I definitely think you got the better end of the deal >;) LOL! Well, I still have my PDS-1D and I am happy that Bob is interested enough to get the PDS-1 running. Note, the "D" stands for Dense, as in a more densely packed set of hardware. In the PDS-1D, they put more logic into the same physical space. > > Now I've got to get a way to load the 4K terminal program into memory > > quickly and reliably (my Imlac has had the core memory replaced with > > SRAM), and interface it to one of my HP minis! > >The PDS-1D I got came with the software and documentation for >boot-strapping it off the serial port. Maybe you can do it that way? If >I can find where I stored this stuff I can lend it to you if it would be >helpful. When you say "software", what all do you mean? Do you have any additional software which runs on the Imlac, which I don't have in my collection? This is how I load my machine. I think that Bob has the serial loader information as well, and if he does not, the documentation is on Al's site: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/imlac/ When are you going to get your machine running Sellam? --tom >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Sep 4 14:45:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: FA: CompatiCard IV, old Pop Electronics with 2650 SBC, S-100 SpeechLab, SOL Access & more Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020904154815.0e1f08a2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Still cleaning up around here! See Joe From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Sep 4 14:48:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 04 Sep 2002 00:32:49 EDT." <3D758CF1.5010706@internet1.net> Message-ID: <200209040814.JAA00750@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Chad Fernandez said; > William Donzelli wrote: > > Go to your local _good_ record store - the type that does not carry the > > major labels, and is often filled with industrial noise, punk, or > > something else to scare away customers. Most carry a good selection of > > sleeves, liners, labels, boxes, etc.. Prices will mostly be the same, so > > it probably is not worth shopping around. > > Are records still being made? I aussumed everyone was playing there > old, but very well cared for collections. Twelve-inchers are still being made, rappers need them, you can't "scratch" properly with a cd :-) There are also several specialist labels including one that records direct to disk - no new-fangled digital or tape... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Sep 4 14:48:16 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 03 Sep 2002 22:40:54 CDT." Message-ID: <200209040810.JAA00735@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Tothwolf said: > On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Brasso, like the same stuff (wadding with smelly petrolueum compounds) > > that I used on my uniform brass in Army ROTC and in the active duty AF > > world to polish brass knobs (AF uniform "brass" was silverplate and > > didn't need Brasso)? Hmm...didn't know it was a non-US product. I also > > didn't know it was good for paint, thought it might do badly on the > > paint like a solvent. Obviously, try it on a part that's hidden from view first, just in case. But I've never had a problem. I was using it the other day to clean up the case of a Racal counter/timer - looks a treat now after removing the RAF grime! > > I've seen some silver plated stuff damaged badly from Brasso, so I know > its not for use on such things. I'd always heard it was for use on brass > only. > Yes, Brasso works by abrading a thin layer off the surface, and will eventually remove the silver plating. My mother has several "brass" ornaments that were once silver plated! The stuff with wadding was called "Dura-Glit" I think. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From mythtech at mac.com Wed Sep 4 14:53:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >Antique electronic supply has some. www.tubesandmore.com >They are good for 12 plays each. Package of 25 for $1.95 Thanks, I'll check them out. -chris From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Sep 4 15:39:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: References: <3D758C67.1060407@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3D762886.22949.2E580@localhost> Try rec.music.collecting.vinyl > Btw, is there a dedicated mailing list anywhere for this sort of topic? > It does seem like lots of people here have an interest in old records, > wire recordings (...got some of these and the recorder too), etc, even > though such topics are not exactly computer related. > > -Toth > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Sep 4 15:48:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:07 2005 Subject: OT/Old Recordings/Shameless Plug In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Sep 04, 2002 03:01:29 PM Message-ID: <200209042048.g84KmVs13929@shell1.aracnet.com> > I have offered audio restoration services for many years, from any (and > all) types of recorded audio media - cylinders, wire, tape: paper, > plastic, sprocketed, 2MM to 4"... etc etc. I restore damaged media and do > forensic work. I'm impressed! I know that at least a couple of us have Mac's that are setup as more or less Pro Digital Audio Workstations, but being able to handle that range of formats, WOW! Are you hooking the equipement that plays these formats up to a computer? If so how do you go about making the connections? I'm curious as currently the only Phonograph I've got capable of playing 78's doesn't like to be hooked up to other equipement, I get a horrible hum (IIRC, the problem is called a current loop). While I'd like to get a good archival turntable, no one seems to make one that also does 16rpm like my existing one does. My current archival project involves shifting Laserdisc's to DVD-R. I'm embarrassed to admit that I've resorted to using a system running Windows XP. I'm still refining the process, however, I'm getting results that are about as good as a non-Anamorphic Commercial DVD. I'm only doing this for titles that can't be gotten on DVD (and in at least some cases will probably never be released again). Zane From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 4 15:50:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Radio Shack hasn't had much of anything in a few years, even through special order, plus they are very high. I did try them and the one clerk asked "a what?" (wasn't a kid either - about 40 yrs old). The old timer inthe the place, probably 50 or so, knew what I wanted and when he looked it up it showed none of the Technics styli. The unit works fine right now but I usually keep a spare to have ion hand when the in-use one goes crappy. Looks like this time I'll be buying 3 or 4. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 2:27 PM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Tried RadioShack? -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman [mailto:rhb57@vol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 2:07 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup If y ou come across a vendor that also sells new stylus units for the tone arms of turntables you might post that too - my long term source dried up last year From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Sep 4 16:20:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT/Old Recordings/Shameless Plug In-Reply-To: <200209042048.g84KmVs13929@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020904171837.01ef1ac0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Zane H. Healy may have mentioned these words: > > I have offered audio restoration services for many years, from any (and > > all) types of recorded audio media - cylinders, wire, tape: paper, > > plastic, sprocketed, 2MM to 4"... etc etc. I restore damaged media and do > > forensic work. For an audiophobe like me, that sounds kinda fun... but my new non-computer hobby looks to be woodworking (out of necessity...) >My current archival project involves shifting Laserdisc's to DVD-R. I'm >embarrassed to admit that I've resorted to using a system running Windows >XP. Why XP instead of 2000? My Tivo -> SVCD projects went 15-20% slower on XP vs. 2K, so I dropped back. I *despised* that damnable kandy-koted GUI crap, too... > I'm still refining the process, however, I'm getting results that are >about as good as a non-Anamorphic Commercial DVD. I'm only doing this for >titles that can't be gotten on DVD (and in at least some cases will >probably never be released again). My results are better than VHS, as I've never seen SVHS in action, I can't say about that... not quite as good as DVD. But... hey... whaddya want for $0.20 per disc??? :-) http://tivo.30below.com/zmerch/ -- for my methods; maybe you'll find a nugget of info there to help you out? HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From mythtech at mac.com Wed Sep 4 16:35:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT/Old Recordings/Shameless Plug Message-ID: >Why XP instead of 2000? My Tivo -> SVCD projects went 15-20% slower on XP >vs. 2K, so I dropped back. I *despised* that damnable kandy-koted GUI crap, >too... If you are serious about these kinds of conversions, you might want to look into the VCD burner from Terapin. Its a little pricey (about $600), but it burns directly to VCD like a VCR, and works GREAT. It also claims to bypass macrovision when duping VHS or DVD, but I admit, I have not tried to copy a macrovised item yet (I only use mine for live recording, or for saving iMovie created movies to VCD since it is MUCH faster to do realtime output via a scan converter to the VCD burner, than it is to wait for my iMac to render a VCD compatible MPEG) -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Sep 4 17:11:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT/Old Recordings/Shameless Plug In-Reply-To: from "Roger Merchberger" at Sep 04, 2002 05:23:12 PM Message-ID: <200209042211.g84MBCA18026@shell1.aracnet.com> > >My current archival project involves shifting Laserdisc's to DVD-R. I'm > >embarrassed to admit that I've resorted to using a system running Windows > >XP. > > Why XP instead of 2000? My Tivo -> SVCD projects went 15-20% slower on XP > vs. 2K, so I dropped back. I *despised* that damnable kandy-koted GUI crap, > too... As much as I despise Microsoft products I've found that I can almost stomach Windows XP Pro unlike any previous version of Window or Window NT since Windows 3.11. Plus it has some features that I like. Since I don't have a dedicated system for this, XP is the best choice. If in the future I do go with a dedicated system I'll put NT2k Pro on it, as I've already got a legal copy I can use for that. Actually considering it can take 40 hours to encode a disk using the options I'm using, a dedicated system is starting to make sense. "^) > My results are better than VHS, as I've never seen SVHS in action, I can't > say about that... not quite as good as DVD. But... hey... whaddya want for > $0.20 per disc??? :-) http://tivo.30below.com/zmerch/ -- for my methods; > maybe you'll find a nugget of info there to help you out? I'll have to take a look at it. I've been looking at using VCD for shifting VHS and TV. I've run into a really wierd problem though. The audio on my AVI capture (I use a Canopus ADVR-100 hooked to a firewire port) sounds fine, but when I encoded it to MPEG1 (VCD spec'd), it has a high pitched whine. I don't get the whine if I encode it as MPEG2 for DVD. So far I've only experimented briefly with this using a TV signal as the VCR in the computer room is an old ~1990 GE model with Mono audio and I'm using fairly cheasy cables to hook it up to the ADVR-100. I'm wondering if that might not be part of my problem. As on the AVI or MPEG2 file I think I can hear a 60Hz hum. I'm going to look into getting a decent VCR for the computer room in the very near future and experiment more. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 4 17:39:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Sep 3, 2 02:06:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 445 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020904/6bfd3796/attachment.ksh From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Sep 4 17:40:30 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <200209041827.LAA25568@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3D7644CD.28985.715EF3@localhost> I have a fair number of unopened packages of needles in my collection of old 78 stuff. One brand says "Guaranteed to play 10 records" It also had "Loud" or "medium" types. The swiss steel ones from Pfanstiehl says 12 or more per needle. Victor sold chromium ones that were good for 75-100 plays. Like 33 lps, 78 came ordinarily as 10" or 12" size. Some of the early ones were single-sided. Early Victor ones were about twice the thickness of the later 78s. Lawrence > >From: "Chad Fernandez" > > > >William Donzelli wrote: > >> You can not reuse needles, nor can you sharpen them. With the > >> acoustic-era machines, needles are used exactly *once*. Play the record, then > >> pitch the needle. If you reuse needles, you will wreck the records. > >> > >> Needles are very available from several sources. They are quite > >> inexpensive (they have to be!). > >> > >> William Donzelli > >> aw288@osfn.org > > Hi > The original Edisons all used diamond needles and could > get thousands of plays. > Many of the acoustic setups used cactus needles and one > could sharpen them with a twizzle thing that had sand-paper > to sharpen them. > Dwight > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 4 17:43:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: DECtape success (was Re: Stuff available in UK) In-Reply-To: <2700.4.20.168.181.1031100825.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 3, 2 05:53:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 928 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020904/b509db01/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 4 17:48:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > However, the original question mentioned RS232. Which is _not_ the same > as serial. RS232 implies certain voltage levels. > The CBM and Atari drives do not use an RS232 interface. AND,.. If I recall correctly, the Tandy Pdd1, although it was "almost RS-232" used TTL, NOT RS-232 voltage levels. There were some trivial adapters available to permit it to work with "real" RS-232 signals. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 4 17:51:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Sep 3, 2 06:11:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1678 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020904/941cba47/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 4 18:07:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: <3D759EE0.3040509@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Sep 4, 2 01:49:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2612 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020904/c70f9925/attachment.ksh From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Sep 4 18:20:01 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT/Old Recordings/Shameless Plug References: Message-ID: <01a801c25469$a353c2b0$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 7:05 AM Subject: Re: OT/Old Recordings/Shameless Plug > It also claims to bypass macrovision when duping VHS or DVD, but I admit, > I have not tried to copy a macrovised item yet Pretty much any copy protection system for video can be defeated by putting a time base corrector in the analogue signal path between the source and whatever you are recording it on. When I worked in television and helical scan Umatic (3/4") stuff started to appear, we had to feed it through a TBC to make it presentable for on air. This also sorts out any form of copy protection, since the signal has to be playable on a common or garden tv set, not a lot you can do to it without rendering it unwatchable without special hardware. TBC's used to cost a packet, (the one we had was worth around $20kAU at late 70's prices and was the size of a big desktop pc.) now they are a single chip and any half decent camcorder has a much better one. Some systems can also be defeated by looping the signal through an old beta machine, then feeding it to your vhs box. (The beta I have neatly regenerates the syncs, getting around the commonly employed sync amplitude variation protection system by replacing them with normal .3v sync pulses.) You can recognise this method by the slow cyclic variation in picture brightness in a copied tape. You can get external TBC's for a few hundred bucks these days. Note that they work on the analogue video signal, direct digital to digital is an entirely different can of worms. Geoff in Oz From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Sep 4 18:24:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: References: <3D759EE0.3040509@tiac.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020904182223.01b0b9f0@ubanproductions.com> >Incidentally, does anyone have/know where to get 74Hxxx TTL? I'm working >on a machine that's stuffed with it, and a fair number of chips have >failed. 74LSxxx works in most places, but there are some chips (74H52, >74H54 And-Or-Invert gates, 74H108 JK flip-flops, etc) that don't seem to >have equivalents in other families. If one of those has failed (or fails >in the future) I am going to have problems... A few months back (or was it a year now), I was trying to stock up on 74Hxxx TTL so that I would have some to repair my old PDP-11s when/if those parts died. They are very hard to locate these days. After much web surfing, I located a place which used to sell them, but was switching business over to a more lucrative solar products. They still had a large inventory of the parts, but couldn't be bothered to sell me some (or all) of the 74Hxxx parts that they had on hand. I imagine that they put them into a dumpster -- what a shame! --tom >-tony From clascmp at highgate.comm.sfu.ca Wed Sep 4 18:24:11 2002 From: clascmp at highgate.comm.sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: VMS TCP/IP? In-Reply-To: <004e01c24efb$a67c0a60$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <200209042324.g84NOp430631@highgate.comm.sfu.ca> There's also CMU IP, it's freeware. Kevin [ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ] > Besides Multinet and TCPware, are there any freeware TCP services for VMS > 6.1 and higher??? Anyone have any experience with the Purveyor webserver > for VMS? > > > > Curt > > > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Sep 4 18:53:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT/Old Recordings/Shameless Plug In-Reply-To: <01a801c25469$a353c2b0$0300a8c0@geoff> References: <01a801c25469$a353c2b0$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <4608.4.20.168.169.1031183613.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > TBC's used to cost a packet, (the one we had was worth around $20kAU at > late 70's prices and was the size of a big desktop pc.) Oooh, that's a small, cheap TBC! :-) Ours took up the better part of a 19-inch rack, and was priced commensurately. And that was in 1982, although the unit was probably 2-3 years old at the time. I'd be surprised if there really was a TBC with a full frame buffer the size of a big PC before 1980; the necessary memory alone would have been bigger than a PC, not to mention the logic and the analog signal processing. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Sep 4 19:03:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT: phonograph needles References: <3D76489F.4030302@internet1.net> Message-ID: <00fa01c2546f$b257d980$3c00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:53 PM Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup > William Donzelli wrote: > > You can not reuse needles, nor can you sharpen them. With the > > acoustic-era machines, needles are used exactly *once*. Play the record, > > then pitch the needle. If you reuse needles, you will wreck the records. > > > > Needles are very available from several sources. They are quite > > inexpensive (they have to be!). > > > > William Donzelli > > aw288@osfn.org > > Wow, that is something I didn't know. I have zero knowledge on acoustic > era anything :-) I did some googling when I brought home our wind-up Pathe Actuelle-- NOT a victrola, which is a brand name. Think Coke vs. cola. The steel needles that fit my machine, not a vertical cut [un?]fortunantly, come in `hard' and `soft' versions-- and have a marked difference in sound. The hard needles look like a piece of pencil lead, ~1/2" long, sharpened on a pencil sharpener. The soft needles looked like the tips of slightly fattened safety-pins and are possibly a hard brass or bronze, judging by the color. A used needle is quite noticable, there are flats worn on the sides of it, reflections will flash as you roll it in your fingers in a bright light. > > That would be a pain. Not as much of a pain as ruining `Abide With Me'. > > Chad Fernandez Bob PS: See a similar Actuelle at http://www.intertique.com/BgPatheArt.htm. Mine doesn't have all the fancy spindles and inlays, but the speaker cone is tres cool. It points out of the horn, and is actuated by a long lever attached to the needle! From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Wed Sep 4 19:38:00 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1fhzy13.1hnjuet2rs082M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> > On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > However, the original question mentioned RS232. Which is _not_ the same > > as serial. RS232 implies certain voltage levels. > > The CBM and Atari drives do not use an RS232 interface. > > AND,.. > If I recall correctly, the Tandy Pdd1, although it was "almost > RS-232" used TTL, NOT RS-232 voltage levels. There were some trivial > adapters available to permit it to work with "real" RS-232 signals. I always thought that was called RS-422. The Macintosh standard serial port was a RS-422 serial port. When I went to look up what that meant, the only difference I could find was the voltage levels. RS-422: 0v to 5v RS-232: -5v to 5v The documentation I found went on to say that RS-422 was backaward compatiable with RS-232. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Sep 4 19:40:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: IBM Aptiva for parts Message-ID: <014c01c25474$cf87fad0$3c00a8c0@george> Move-out week is over on campus, but I decided hit a couple of alleys on the way home anyway. The only thing of interest I found was a skinless, stripped Aptiva that I nearly passed up, but then I noticed that the slots were on an active riser card so I picked it up anyway. The power supply has some extra wires on it, too. I figure these are odd enough to be hard to replace if you get a bad one. If anyone wants the parts for $postage, let me know. I've got: motherboard, FRU 11H8440 no CPU, no RAM, no cache, video RAM upgrade not installed, has a jumper board installed in the VRM slot `7x6 riser', FRU 11H8453 6 ISA, 2 PCI (1 shared), has some active components on it power supply, FRU 06H2973, P/N 06H2971 has 3.3V, and an extra connector, keyed 3 pin with a latch, 22GA black, white, & red modem/sound card, 42H1970 ISA, Mwave `MC27802C JSW/JBR', `MD-2780/I1', `GVC-KD070101', has a little 2-conductor cable that attached to the motherboard (not CD audio) Bob From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Sep 4 20:02:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: <1fhzy13.1hnjuet2rs082M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> References: <1fhzy13.1hnjuet2rs082M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <2609.4.20.168.169.1031187739.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I always thought that was called RS-422. > > The Macintosh standard serial port was a RS-422 serial port. When I > went to look up what that meant, the only difference I could find was > the voltage levels. > > RS-422: 0v to 5v > RS-232: -5v to 5v There's a lot more difference than that, and the voltage levels quoted are wrong, or at the very least, misleading. I don't have a copy of the relevant standards handy, so I might have some details wrong, but here goes... RS-232, which is now called EIA-232, is a single-ended signalling scheme. At the transmitter, the voltages are nominally around +12V (mark) and -12V (space), but are actually allowed to range from +25V to -25V. Aside from voltage output, there are various other requirements on the transmitter including short-circuit protection. At the receiver end, voltages above +3V are considered a mark, and below -3V are considered a space. A signal between +3V and -3V does not meet the EIA-232 specs, so the behavior is undefined, but most receivers will consider a signal near 0V to be a space. > The documentation I found went on to say that RS-422 was backaward > compatiable with RS-232. The documentation is wrong. EIA-422 is a differential signalling standard. Rather than having a data signal referenced to ground, you have two signals referenced to each other, e.g., RxP and RxN for receive, and TxP and TxN for transmit. EIA-422 cannot interoperate with EIA-232 without a converter of some kind. However, the Macintosh ports also support EIA-423, which is a single-ended signalling method using levels approximately equivalent to those of EIA-422. In many cases EIA-232 equipment and EIA-423 equipment can interoperate (as is usually the case with Macintosh serial ports and EIA-232 devices), but technically an EIA-423 device does not in fact meet EIA-232 specifications. Another difference between EIA-232 and EIA-422 is that EIA-232 specifies a connector and the assignment of functions to connector pins, while EIA-422 and EIA-423 specify electrical characteristics only. Note that a device that uses an EIA-232 electrical interface but not the DB-25 connector is not actually compliant with the EIA-232 specification. For instance, devices with DE-9, modular, or MMJ connectors. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Sep 4 20:04:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives Message-ID: <200209050104.SAA25780@clulw009.amd.com> >From: tlindner@ix.netcom.com > >> On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Tony Duell wrote: >> > However, the original question mentioned RS232. Which is _not_ the same >> > as serial. RS232 implies certain voltage levels. >> > The CBM and Atari drives do not use an RS232 interface. >> >> AND,.. >> If I recall correctly, the Tandy Pdd1, although it was "almost >> RS-232" used TTL, NOT RS-232 voltage levels. There were some trivial >> adapters available to permit it to work with "real" RS-232 signals. > >I always thought that was called RS-422. > >The Macintosh standard serial port was a RS-422 serial port. When I went >to look up what that meant, the only difference I could find was the >voltage levels. > >RS-422: 0v to 5v >RS-232: -5v to 5v > >The documentation I found went on to say that RS-422 was backaward >compatiable with RS-232. > >-- >tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com > Hi No, 422 is not backwards compatible with 232. RS-422 and RS-485 are both specs for driving differential lines. RS-232 can be +/- 12 volts but the receiver may have lower levels ( I forgot what the requirement was ). The document was not correct about RS-232/RS-422. It may be that one could make them work under specific conditions but these signals are not backward compatible. Dwight From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Sep 4 20:04:10 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > By the way, during my debugging, I came across a bad 7473. Its a odd > > little JK flip flop, and I'd like to find a replacement. Note that > > the 74LS73A is NOT compatible, its got a different truth table! > > Should anyone have one of these kicking around, please let me know. > > I think I might have some -- I found them the other day when looking for > the (much more common) 7474. They are RS components ('Radiospares' to > old hackers in the UK) brand, so no idea if they are true TI 7473s or > not. But if you can't get one in the States, I can see if I can find > them again and then send you one. I have a few National branded 7473 chips in the parts cabinet and can part with one if needed. > Incidentally, does anyone have/know where to get 74Hxxx TTL? I'm working > on a machine that's stuffed with it, and a fair number of chips have > failed. 74LSxxx works in most places, but there are some chips (74H52, > 74H54 And-Or-Invert gates, 74H108 JK flip-flops, etc) that don't seem to > have equivalents in other families. If one of those has failed (or fails > in the future) I am going to have problems... I believe 74H stuff was totally dropped from production, so likely the only sources for it will be old stock, the surplus market, or old parts hiding in parts cabinets. -Toth From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 4 20:07:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > If you're not locked in to Serial, consider parallel. On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I suspect you're talking about the IBM PC parallel printer > port, which is one particular parallel interface. Be warned, it's not > necessarily Centronics -- you can't use most of these devices designed to > link to PC printer ports with other Centronics ports. It's not just a You are absolutely right. I was, indeed, talking about devices built specifically for connecting to the IBM PC parallel printer port. I don't think that the original question ever completely specified what the goal was. Was he trying to connect to a PC or something else? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 4 20:13:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Sep 4, 2 09:16:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 753 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020904/5c42c5e4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 4 20:19:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: <1fhzy13.1hnjuet2rs082M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> from "tim lindner" at Sep 4, 2 05:37:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1168 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020904/eb629c42/attachment.ksh From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed Sep 4 20:30:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020904182223.01b0b9f0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20020905013022.54458.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> unicorn electronics seems to have the h108's for $1.29 ea. http://www.unicornelectronics.com Do 74H chips fail more often than "regular" or LS TTL? --- Tom Uban wrote: > > >Incidentally, does anyone have/know where to get > 74Hxxx TTL? I'm working > >on a machine that's stuffed with it, and a fair > number of chips have > >failed. 74LSxxx works in most places, but there are > some chips (74H52, > >74H54 And-Or-Invert gates, 74H108 JK flip-flops, > etc) that don't seem to > >have equivalents in other families. If one of those > has failed (or fails > >in the future) I am going to have problems... > > A few months back (or was it a year now), I was > trying to stock up on > 74Hxxx TTL > so that I would have some to repair my old PDP-11s > when/if those parts > died. They > are very hard to locate these days. After much web > surfing, I located a > place which > used to sell them, but was switching business over > to a more lucrative > solar products. > They still had a large inventory of the parts, but > couldn't be bothered to > sell me some > (or all) of the 74Hxxx parts that they had on hand. > I imagine that they put > them into > a dumpster -- what a shame! > > --tom > > >-tony > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 4 21:03:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Sep 4, 2 08:15:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1537 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020904/31f838f4/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 4 21:04:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020904143524.01b26598@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > LOL! Well, I still have my PDS-1D and I am happy that Bob is interested > enough to get the PDS-1 running. Note, the "D" stands for Dense, as in a > more densely packed set of hardware. In the PDS-1D, they put more logic > into the same physical space. Aha. That's something I didn't glean from scanning the documentation I have. > >The PDS-1D I got came with the software and documentation for > >boot-strapping it off the serial port. Maybe you can do it that way? If > >I can find where I stored this stuff I can lend it to you if it would be > >helpful. > > When you say "software", what all do you mean? Do you have any additional > software which runs on the Imlac, which I don't have in my collection? The guy I got it from wrote his own bootstrapper on a CP/M machine and cross-assmebled it to the IMLAC. He wrote all the tools himself. For a guy that didn't think there would be a problem of storing this thing outside for 5 years before I got my hands on it, he actually was smart (once). The way it works, you load the disk up on the CP/M machine (in this case it was a Cromemco Z1) and it readies the serial port. Then you turn on the Imlac, which is connected to the Cromemco by a null modem serial cable. > This is how I load my machine. I think that Bob has the serial loader > information as well, and if he does not, the documentation is on Al's > site: I'm sure the software I have does the same thing, but this guy and his friends rolled their own because they got their machines surplus when they were much younger and didn't get much software with it apparently. > When are you going to get your machine running Sellam? It's on the list-of-things-to-get-to-someday. Right now things are way too crazy. It's chore enough trying not to fall too far behind right now :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Sep 4 21:21:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020904143524.01b26598@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020904212222.01abad18@ubanproductions.com> >The guy I got it from wrote his own bootstrapper on a CP/M machine and >cross-assmebled it to the IMLAC. He wrote all the tools himself. For a >guy that didn't think there would be a problem of storing this thing >outside for 5 years before I got my hands on it, he actually was smart >(once). > >The way it works, you load the disk up on the CP/M machine (in this case >it was a Cromemco Z1) and it readies the serial port. Then you turn on >the Imlac, which is connected to the Cromemco by a null modem serial >cable. > > > This is how I load my machine. I think that Bob has the serial loader > > information as well, and if he does not, the documentation is on Al's > > site: > >I'm sure the software I have does the same thing, but this guy and his >friends rolled their own because they got their machines surplus when they >were much younger and didn't get much software with it apparently. Right. What I was actually asking was if the guy gave you any Imlac programs, you know, the ones which the loader loads into the Imlac? --tom >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Wed Sep 4 21:58:00 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: Serial floppy drives In-Reply-To: <2609.4.20.168.169.1031187739.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1fi04q1.1exyjwavrsghsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> > > I always thought that was called RS-422. > > > > The Macintosh standard serial port was a RS-422 serial port. When I > > went to look up what that meant, the only difference I could find was > > the voltage levels. > > > > RS-422: 0v to 5v > > RS-232: -5v to 5v > > There's a lot more difference than that, > > The documentation I found went on to say that RS-422 was backaward > > compatiable with RS-232. > > The documentation is wrong. Whoa, jeez. I think i'll stick to commenting on CoCo stuff from now on. :) -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From mythtech at mac.com Wed Sep 4 22:47:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT/Old Recordings/Shameless Plug Message-ID: >Pretty much any copy protection system for video can be defeated by putting >a >time base corrector in the analogue signal path between the source and >whatever you are recording it on. Yup, that is why I currently dub macrovised VHS by passing them thru my computer. My PowerMac has a NTSC/PAL input, and will output NTSC or PAL. I feed the video into the mac, then run the video player software in full screen, and record the video output. It actually makes VERY nice duplicates, and defeats macrovision in the process (since I'm not really recording the original video, but rather a screen image of my computer, that just happens to have the video playing in full screen mode). But I think Apple got wise to that, because reports are you can't do the same thing with the DVD player and video mirroring (although with an external scan converter I would think you can, but not with the built in S-Video output on their newer Powerbooks). Of course, now that I just discussed this, I am in violation of the DMCA, so the Thought Police should be knocking on my door any moment now. Lucky for you, you live in a country that seems to be a bit more rational and citizen friendly (didn't Australia just pass a law that pretty much says Macrovision is illegal or something to that effect?) -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Sep 4 22:51:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D76481A.9050207@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Both my truntables are form Goodwill, one a Harmon Kardon, the other a > Pioneer. I'm presently cleaning the Pioneer. The Harmon Kardon is on > the closet still. While searching for info on the Dual 1209 turntable I pulled from the dumpster, I found a site called The Turntable Factory [http://www.theturntablefactory.com/]. If you need advice or a source for parts, it might be worthwhile to email them. I've been chatting with them about a tonearm head for the 1209 (its currently broken due to the way the turntable landed in the dumpster). I'm a little worried about the cost of a replacement tonearm head, *if* I'm even able to find one. I may end up having to fabricate a replacement myself. The old one is cast pot metal. -Toth From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 4 23:47:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020904212222.01abad18@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > Right. What I was actually asking was if the guy gave you any Imlac > programs, you know, the ones which the loader loads into the Imlac? I believe he gave me a whole box but I don't know what he all gave me. I'll have to dig the box up and see if it's labeled. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Sep 4 23:49:00 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: IBM Aptiva for parts Message-ID: <137.13bf791f.2aa83c6b@aol.com> In a message dated 9/4/2002 8:41:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rschaefe@gcfn.org writes: << Move-out week is over on campus, but I decided hit a couple of alleys on the way home anyway. The only thing of interest I found was a skinless, stripped Aptiva that I nearly passed up, but then I noticed that the slots were on an active riser card so I picked it up anyway. The power supply has some extra wires on it, too. I figure these are odd enough to be hard to replace if you get a bad one. If anyone wants the parts for $postage, let me know. I've got: >> is there a machine type/model number listed anywhere? sounds like a 2168-??? model. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Sep 5 00:04:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: In a message dated 9/4/02 8:52:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, tothwolf@concentric.net writes: > , I found a site called The Turntable Factory > [http://www.theturntablefactory.com/]. If you need advice or a source for > parts, it might be worthwhile to email them. Great Lead... Thanks The site has one of the best tutorials on refinishing clear hard plastic covers. The link is here: http://www.theturntablefactory.com/cover.html Very good info. Paxton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020905/3bc9c679/attachment.html From fernande at internet1.net Thu Sep 5 00:24:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D76EA62.6070701@internet1.net> Tothwolf wrote: > While searching for info on the Dual 1209 turntable I pulled from the > dumpster, I found a site called The Turntable Factory > [http://www.theturntablefactory.com/]. If you need advice or a source for > parts, it might be worthwhile to email them. I've been chatting with them > about a tonearm head for the 1209 (its currently broken due to the way the > turntable landed in the dumpster). I'm a little worried about the cost of > a replacement tonearm head, *if* I'm even able to find one. I may end up > having to fabricate a replacement myself. The old one is cast pot metal. > > -Toth I found that site a few weeks ago, and have it bookmarked :-) I forgot to mention that I have a Fisher record changer besides the two turntables from Goodwill. I got the Fisher from friends at church. They bought her mothers and stepfahters house. The stepfather bought the Fisher console new in 70, I think. Now I have it :-) I paid very little :-) It's at my parents house now, so I forgot about it earlier. It will be at my house..... when I get one! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Thu Sep 5 00:29:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D76EBC7.2020806@internet1.net> Russ Blakeman wrote: > If y ou come across a vendor that also sells new stylus units for the tone > arms of turntables you might post that too - my long term source dried up > last year If you mean non-acoustic, there are several sources. I bought a new cartidge and needle for my Pioneer from www.needledoctor.com Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From gstreet at indy.net Thu Sep 5 00:52:00 2002 From: gstreet at indy.net (Robert Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: Retitle: ISC S-100 Computer/Seattle Comp. Products S-100 Cards In-Reply-To: <20020905011300.46786.80775.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020905005316.00b65e60@pop.onemain.com> Hello All, I'm going to repost this since this message's title was so obscure in the "Table of Contents" of messages that is included with each mailing. Back on June 9th of this year (Classic Tech Eletter #11), someone thoughtfully posted the paragraph at the bottom of this message (on this newsgroup). Coincidentally, I had already found the same S-100 computer and I eventually ended up winning the bid (luckily [I think] I was the only bidder). I only very recently received this machine (it was slightly damaged in shipping, and it _really_ was filthy! (There was an long delay in shipping it to me.) I've got the damage straightened out and I completely disassembled it for cleaning. I just got it back together last night and turned on the switch. I seems to power up and the led's come on (led near the on/off switch and 3 led's on the backplane/motherboard). I talked to one person who said that he thought that he'd had an ISC computer before, but that it wasn't pure S-100. The reason that I bought this machine is that I have some Seattle Computer Products S-100 cards that I really want to get running. They drop in the ISC "S-100" computer _perfectly_, but I have not powered it up with the SCP cards in place. If there's something that's not "pure S-100" about the ISC, I don't want to damage the SCP cards. I just checked the link (below) and it still works. I think the link will disappear in just a few more days (90 days since first posted), so I can provide the same pictures to anyone interested after the link disappears. The reason it's taken so long to ask this question is because it took over 2 months for me to actually receive the unit (now the darned link is ready to vanish, probably on Sept 10th). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2029719366 I cannot find _any_ information about ISC Systems Corp., Spokane, WA. It's an absolutely beautifully crafted unit and from the filthy condition that I received it in--it appears to have been left running for, perhaps, _years_! The seller claimed that he'd removed the existing cards to install in his Altair, but if that's true, someone must have already substituted different cards--in the pictures, you'll notice a bunch of twisted pair and other small gauge wires: these all appear to hook up to what would seem to be "non-standard" S-100 cards, through proprietary connectors. I cannot fathom how the original ISC cards could have been of any use to anyone except the user of another ISC system. It appears that the "non-standard" wires go to things like: keyboard, monitor, modem, a network, and "LP 1" and "LP 2" (LPT 1 & LPT 2??). There is yet another connector that I've no clue as to what it might do. _BUT_, _if_ the box itself conforms to the S-100 standard, and if I can use the SCP cards, all the other wires don't matter, because they won't be connected to anything. I've really taken a liking to this machine--I hope I can use it! Any help would be much appreciated! > >At 08:33 PM 6/9/02 -0400, you wrote: >CLASSIC TECH ELETTER, Vol. 1, Issue 11 > >It's too bad the seller gutted this ISC Systems S-100 computer. If it >sells close to the opening bid, however, the buyer will get a good deal on >an S-100 starter system. (The seller's right about the system needing a >cleaning. You could knit a sweater with all the lint stuck in the fan >vent.) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2029719366 Thank you, Robert Greenstreet gstreet@indy.net From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Sep 5 02:00:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) In-Reply-To: <1fi04q1.1exyjwavrsghsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> References: <2609.4.20.168.169.1031187739.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <1fi04q1.1exyjwavrsghsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <42089.64.169.63.74.1031209202.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > > > Whoa, jeez. I think i'll stick to commenting on CoCo stuff from now on. I hope you didn't interpret that as a personal attack. I know you were just trying to be helpful, and had undoubtedly gotten the information from an inaccurate source. I just wanted to make sure no one was led astray. Connecting EIA-232 directly to EIA-422 could let the smoke out of something, and we certainly wouldn't want that. On the other hand, I'm plenty interested in CoCo stuff, so comment on them all you like. I got my first Color Computer 2 back in 1984 or so, with 64K of RAM, a pair of TEAC FD55-F floppy drives (80 track double sided), a PBJ Word-Pak 80-column card, and some sort of PBJ backplane that did basically the same thing as the Radio Shack Multipak but was cheaper (and also less expensive). I ran OS-9 on it. After a while I added an RS-232 pak and one of the first USR Courier 2400 modems, so I could dial into a VAX running BSD 4.2. I don't recall now where I got a floppy controller, or what brand it was. Did Radio Shack sell the controller separately? I definitely didn't buy any Radio Shack drives back then, although last year I did buy some on eBay. Eventually I got a Coco 3, and gave much of my Coco 2 stuff to a friend, who has within the last two years given most of it back. I was surprised to learn recently that there's a SourceForge project to reverse-engineer, document, and extend OS-9 for the Coco: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cocoos9/ Also a package of command line utilities for Linux and MacOS X to access OS-9 disk images, and a cross-assembler: http://sourceforge.net/projects/os9tools/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Sep 5 02:03:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: WTD: Microvitec "CUB" 653 service/user manuals Message-ID: <005f01c254aa$1cd9bb40$0100000a@deepspacenine> Hi, I'm trying to track down a Service Manual and a User's Manual for my Microvitec Cub 653 RGB monitor. Has anyone here got copies of these manuals? I'd be willing to pay for photocopying, though it would be easier for me if you could just put the manuals in a scanner and send me the resulting image files. I have access to an FTP site I could use for this purpose. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Sep 5 02:12:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) References: <2609.4.20.168.169.1031187739.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <1fi04q1.1exyjwavrsghsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> <42089.64.169.63.74.1031209202.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D77031D.9BAFCE36@ccp.com> Eric Smith wrote: > > > Connecting EIA-232 directly to EIA-422 could let the smoke > out of something, and we certainly wouldn't want that. > ISTR that 422 was simply a balanced line version of 232. I think you can just tie to the non-inverting line and ground and make it work. Unless there's something else needed. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From voyager at hol.gr Thu Sep 5 05:15:01 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (George Kourvaras) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: RF NTSC to PAL and SECAM to PAL conversions References: <2609.4.20.168.169.1031187739.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <1fi04q1.1exyjwavrsghsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> <42089.64.169.63.74.1031209202.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3D77031D.9BAFCE36@ccp.com> Message-ID: <009601c254c5$2d3c1d00$8301a8c0@george> Hi guyz I have a problem with the RF video output of some of my old micros. The use either american or Japanese version of NTSC on VHF/UHF, and all my equipment is PAL compatible. I have the same problem, with some old French micros, that use SECAM RF output only. I am looking for converters but I cannot find any. Could anybody help me? Thanks George Athens/Greece From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Sep 5 07:11:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: RF NTSC to PAL and SECAM to PAL conversions References: <2609.4.20.168.169.1031187739.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <1fi04q1.1exyjwavrsghsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> <42089.64.169.63.74.1031209202.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3D77031D.9BAFCE36@ccp.com> <009601c254c5$2d3c1d00$8301a8c0@george> Message-ID: <3D774921.33BB6C55@ccp.com> George Kourvaras wrote: > > Hi guyz > > I have a problem with the RF video output of some of my old micros. The use > either american or Japanese version of NTSC on VHF/UHF, and all my equipment > is PAL compatible. > > I have the same problem, with some old French micros, that use SECAM RF > output only. > > I am looking for converters but I cannot find any. Could anybody help me? > > Thanks > > George > Athens/Greece What you are in need of is a video standards converter, and these are usually found under broadcast equipment. Input composite video is decoded into its constituent parts (luminance and either chrominance or component information), stored digitally, and regenerated with the encoding needed. PAL is an enhanced but incompatible version of NTSC, and SECAM is a wholy different encoding system, and I don't have the time or space to go into detail here. I do know of multistandard VCRs that will play back different system's tapes; whether that would work as a standards converter is unknown. For what you are seeking, you are looking at a substantial investment, probably far in excess of what a separate TV for each system would cost. Also, as you've found out, the horizontal and vertical scan rates vary. I do know that a black and white NTSC monitor will after a fashion display PAL video, albeit without color. My Amigas are set up for either 525/60 or 625/50 scan outputs, but they are also RGB separate outputs, and the encoding method becomes a moot point there. I'd say just keep a television set that is multistandard, or have separate NTSC/PAL/SECAM sets compatible with the computers you have, and the RF frequencies each needs. One television set that does it all is probably available, but more costly than the previous solution. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From vaxman at earthlink.net Thu Sep 5 08:17:00 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:08 2005 Subject: Free MicroVAX Diagnostics on 5.25" Disk (RX50) In-Reply-To: <001a01c252e7$04326610$0201a8c0@nairobi> Message-ID: Did anyone claim these? If not, my address is: Clint Wolff 11000 Chase Way Westminster, CO 80020 Thanks, Clint On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Terry Murphy wrote: > I have three sets of MicroVAX Dagnostics V2.1 on 5.25" disks. Also, I have > one box of 10 unused RX50 disks. Anybody interested? Free to whoever will > pay postage. > > Thanks, > Terry > > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Sep 5 08:42:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: Free MicroVAX Diagnostics on 5.25" Disk (RX50) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > Did anyone claim these? If not, my address is: They are claimed several times over I picked them all up last night, as Terry expressed a notable disinterest in packaging & shipping them. I will be testing and imaging the floppy sets this weekend [I hope]. None of the three sets seem to be factory originals; they are all on Digital brand media, but all have handwritten labels. If there's at least one complete good set, I'll make disk images, probably in 22Disk. Those will be available by FTP or email to whoever wants them. The physical sets will go "to the first 3 callers", whom I've already emailed. BTW, I was cruising www.montagar.com the other day, and ended up on an HPaq page dealing with the VMS Hobbyist license. I forgot to bookmark the page, but it clearly stated that all previous releases are covered by the Hobbyist provisions. Does that mean that the Diagnostics disks & tapes are now covered? Doc From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Thu Sep 5 09:00:01 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: Present day OS-9 (Was: EIA 232 vs. 422) In-Reply-To: <42089.64.169.63.74.1031209202.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1fi0y45.1bcbob51k0idu2M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> > > > > > > Whoa, jeez. I think i'll stick to commenting on CoCo stuff from now on. > > I hope you didn't interpret that as a personal attack. Naw, did you see my similie? > I was surprised to learn recently that there's a SourceForge project > to reverse-engineer, document, and extend OS-9 for the Coco: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/cocoos9/ > > Also a package of command line utilities for Linux and MacOS X to > access OS-9 disk images, and a cross-assembler: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/os9tools/ You might also be supprised that I am co-admin for os9tools and am a registered developer for os9source! Also Tim S. is porting OS9Tools to windows. Also have you seen the osnine project on sourceforge? http://sourceforge.net/projects/osnine This project is uses a 6809 emulation core to _run_ 6809 OS-9 modules on the host operating system. I recently compiled it for Mac OS X and was able to use OS-9 disasm to disassemble some OS-9 floppy disk drivers. All without booting up my CoCo! -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Sep 5 09:17:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: Free MicroVAX Diagnostics on 5.25" Disk (RX50) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > I picked them all up last night, as Terry expressed a notable > disinterest in packaging & shipping them. I should never correspond before the second cup of coffee. Sorry, Terry. That reads nothing like I meant it. Terry was quite willing to follow through on his offer. I had replied first to his offer, and offered to take, test, and "pass out" all the disks. Since we both live in Austin, he gladly accepted. Not entirely altruistic on my part either -- that guarantees I get a good set. Doc From voyager at hol.gr Thu Sep 5 09:21:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (George Kourvaras) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: RF NTSC to PAL and SECAM to PAL conversions References: <2609.4.20.168.169.1031187739.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <1fi04q1.1exyjwavrsghsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> <42089.64.169.63.74.1031209202.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3D77031D.9BAFCE36@ccp.com> <009601c254c5$2d3c1d00$8301a8c0@george> <3D774921.33BB6C55@ccp.com> Message-ID: <000801c254e7$807ab860$8301a8c0@george> Thanks for your answer. I have found NTSC video to PAL video or PAL-RF converters for Playstations, for less than $10each. Unfortunatelly, they do not support RF input, but only Composite input. I am not sure, but I suspect that I might be able to hack the PS/PS2 connector and replace it with a standard female RCA connector, and use it as the NTSC input port. I had found quite a long time ago, a generic device, that was used for the conversions, for far less than E100 (~$100), but I had no need for it at the time. My problem is that I have some micros, like the Ti99/4a or Commodore MAX, that use NTSC only standard output and I have is RF. Using a custom cable, I could bypass the Ti99/4a modulator, and use the composite video (in NTSC format) as the modulator is an external device. But for the USA version of the ZX80, I need to hack the motherboard, to get the video signal, unmodulated. And I do not want to alter or modify a "museum" item. I also do not want to use 3 different TV sets. It's very silly to do so. I have a SONY VCR that can playback NTSC video tapes, but it's not capable of translating the NTSC to PAL, and output it on PAL TVs. I know that there is professional equipment, and it's very complicated to convert the SECAM to PAL, as well as the NTSC to PAL. But I recall a small do-it-yourself kit (From Vellerman?) many many years ago that was supporting this function costing only a few Euros. > > What you are in need of is a video standards converter, and these are > usually found under broadcast equipment. Input composite video is > decoded into its constituent parts (luminance and either chrominance or > component information), stored digitally, and regenerated with the > encoding needed. > > PAL is an enhanced but incompatible version of NTSC, and SECAM is a > wholy different encoding system, and I don't have the time or space to > go into detail here. I do know of multistandard VCRs that will play > back different system's tapes; whether that would work as a standards > converter is unknown. For what you are seeking, you are looking at a > substantial investment, probably far in excess of what a separate TV for > each system would cost. > > Also, as you've found out, the horizontal and vertical scan rates vary. > I do know that a black and white NTSC monitor will after a fashion > display PAL video, albeit without color. > > My Amigas are set up for either 525/60 or 625/50 scan outputs, but they > are also RGB separate outputs, and the encoding method becomes a moot > point there. > > I'd say just keep a television set that is multistandard, or have > separate NTSC/PAL/SECAM sets compatible with the computers you have, and > the RF frequencies each needs. One television set that does it all is > probably available, but more costly than the previous solution. > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO From mythtech at mac.com Thu Sep 5 09:23:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: RF NTSC to PAL and SECAM to PAL conversions Message-ID: >I have a problem with the RF video output of some of my old micros. The use >either american or Japanese version of NTSC on VHF/UHF, and all my equipment >is PAL compatible. > >I have the same problem, with some old French micros, that use SECAM RF >output only. > >I am looking for converters but I cannot find any. Could anybody help me? There are many NTSC to PAL converters out there. J&R sells a few I know. They can also be had for fairly cheap ($40 and up). Other formats or conversion directions are a different story. PAL to NTSC is also fairly easy to find, but prices tend to start closer to $200. And anything dealing with SECAM is going to be more costly, and more difficult to locate (usually at that point, you end up getting a universal converter, and spend $500 or more). A slightly bigger problem might be getting one that works with a VHF signal... most of the ones I have seen expect it to be line composite. -chris From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Sep 5 09:44:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. References: Message-ID: <3D776E2A.8090105@tiac.net> I'd be interested to see what these people did to support the Imlac. From a software point, my first concern is going to be getting one of the older, 4K terminal programs running. But if a CP/M cross assembler exists, that would be very interesting. If it could be run under some CP/M emulation on a PC, that would be very useful right now. Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > >>Right. What I was actually asking was if the guy gave you any Imlac >>programs, you know, the ones which the loader loads into the Imlac? >> > >I believe he gave me a whole box but I don't know what he all gave me. >I'll have to dig the box up and see if it's labeled. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020905/79bbe9b1/attachment.html From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Sep 5 11:09:00 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: OT/Old Recordings/Shameless Plug References: <01a801c25469$a353c2b0$0300a8c0@geoff> <4608.4.20.168.169.1031183613.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <001101c254f6$93ffad50$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: Re: OT/Old Recordings/Shameless Plug > > TBC's used to cost a packet, (the one we had was worth around $20kAU at > > late 70's prices and was the size of a big desktop pc.) > > Oooh, that's a small, cheap TBC! :-) $20k was fairly cheap, add a Sony 1830 or 2310 Umatic VCR and you could play to air for less than $30k. The next cheapest thing started around $60k plus all the extra\ stuff, (like 3 phase and and air compressor). > Ours took up the better part > of a 19-inch rack, and was priced commensurately. And that was in > 1982, although the unit was probably 2-3 years old at the time. I'd > be surprised if there really was a TBC with a full frame buffer the > size of a big PC before 1980; I would agree. IIRC, this unit had either a 3 or 5 line buffer. Not much, but enough to (mostly) sort out helical skew. > the necessary memory alone would have been > bigger than a PC, not to mention the logic and the analog signal > processing. This was about IBM AT size but about 12" high. ISTR it had a rack mounting kit, but we just stood it on the bench next to the vcrs. It was absolutely chocka with ttl and cmos logic and got bloody hot. About a 4 hour job to give it a full alignment. Looking back, it was a piece of shit, but it was very handy at the time, as the only other play to air stuff we had was 2" quad. (RCA TR60's, and later, a TCR100) We used the helicals for commercials and the like, especially at our Broken Hill station, which was way too budget strapped to afford a 'real' vtr. Cheers Geoff in Oz > > From a.krennmair at aon.at Thu Sep 5 11:42:07 2002 From: a.krennmair at aon.at (Andreas Krennmair) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: PDP-8 "Introduction to Programming" Message-ID: <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> Hello, I'm a student interested in retrocomputing. That's why I started programming PDP-8 assembly a few days ago (Debian basically delivers all you need to do that, i.e. simh and palbart). One problem I have is the documentation. All that I found is either only a reference for the PDP-8 instructions or the documentation of PAL III assembler. The third thing I had as reference was the source code of OS/278. All in all, very incomplete. Now I learned about the "Introduction to Programming" by DEC, written for and about the PDP-8. Unfortunately I was unable to find a copy of it on the internet. Now I ask whether anybody of you has a copy of it (machine-readable preferred). In Austria, DEC hardware doesn't seem to have been very popular at that time, so documentation isn't easily available, either (it's even quite hard to get VAXen, fortunately I did). Thanks in advance, Andreas Krennmair -- "I treat [women] like compilers. They take simple statements and make them into big productions." -- Pitr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020905/2b45646c/attachment.bin From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Sep 5 11:52:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) Message-ID: <200209051652.JAA26041@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Gary Hildebrand" > >Eric Smith wrote: >> >> > > Connecting EIA-232 directly to EIA-422 could let the smoke >> out of something, and we certainly wouldn't want that. >> > >ISTR that 422 was simply a balanced line version of 232. I think you >can just tie to the non-inverting line and ground and make it work. >Unless there's something else needed. > >Gary Hildebrand >St. Joseph, MO > NO!!!! RS-422 inputs should not normally excede 7V. Many RS-232 are driven with 12 volts. Also, RS-422 is offset above ground and not intended to take large swings below ground. Most RS-422 receivers do not include ground as part of their common mode operation, so you can't tie one input to ground and get it to work. Dwight From lbutzel at attbi.com Thu Sep 5 12:04:00 2002 From: lbutzel at attbi.com (Leo Butzel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: Info on the Dynalogic Hyperion References: Message-ID: <005701c253df$bde662c0$6501a8c0@attbi.com> Merle - Hope this message finds you well and still working with classic computers. In May of 2000 we exchanged some messages re the Hyperion (See below). Just wondered if you ever solved the case of the blank screen? Since we communicated I have acquired several of the machines, two of which work (but interestingly require different versions of the DOS 1.25 operating system), two of which suffer from the blank screen problem. Regards, Leo Butzel - lbutzel@attbi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle K. Peirce" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 9:10 PM Subject: Re: Info on the Dynalogic Hyperion > As I recall, ours has special software, a word processor, a comm > programme, and something else - a database? We also have Multiplan and > perhaps Lotus floating around. I think it is one of the nicest of the > early portables. > > On Wed, 31 May 2000, Leo Butzel wrote: > > > Your symptoms are identical to mine. Likewise have a (soft) carrying case. > > Have quite a wide selection of compatible software including 123, Multiplan > > & Rbase. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Merle K. Peirce > > To: > > Cc: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 8:29 PM > > Subject: Re: Info on the Dynalogic Hyperion > > > > > > > > > > Yes, the machine makes booting sounds, so I'm convinced it's booting, > > > but the screen remains dark. I think the bulb in the power switch is > > > burned out. I'm in Rhode Island. We have a second one that works fine, > > > even has the carrying case. > > > > > > On Wed, 31 May 2000, Leo Butzel wrote: >>>>> > > > > Merle - > > > > > > > > Totally agree, the Hyperion is I think a nifty, handsome little creation. > > > > So, does your machine appear to boot up even though you have no image? What > > > > about the on/off switch: Does it light up when you turn the machine on? > > > > Where are you located? Will keep you posted as to my progress. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Leo Butzel > > > > Seattle, WA > > > > lbutzel@home.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Merle K. Peirce > > > > To: > > > > Cc: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 5:02 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Info on the Dynalogic Hyperion > > > > > > > > > We have one with the same problem. The Hyperion is a really nice little machine. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 31 May 2000, Leo Butzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Looking for info on the Dynalogic Hyperion, a "portable" DOS machine > > > > > > manufactures around 1983. At least the one I have is 1983. it was designed > > > > > > and initially built in Ottawa, Canada. Hyperion was acquired in about 1983 > > > > > > by Bytec, who was later bought by I think a Quebec company called Comterm. > > > > > > Anyway, mine has stopped working: The machine still boots but no mage is > > > > > > displayed on its 7" diag screen. Hence I am looking for service info > > > > >>>and/or persons who have worked on the machine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any leads would be most appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Leo Butzel > > > > > > Seattle, WA > > > > > > lbutzel@home.com > > > > > > From vance at neurotica.com Thu Sep 5 12:04:28 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D758CF1.5010706@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > William Donzelli wrote: > > Go to your local _good_ record store - the type that does not carry the > > major labels, and is often filled with industrial noise, punk, or > > something else to scare away customers. Most carry a good selection of > > sleeves, liners, labels, boxes, etc.. Prices will mostly be the same, so > > it probably is not worth shopping around. > > Are records still being made? I aussumed everyone was playing there > old, but very well cared for collections. A lot of Electronica, Hip-Hop, and Bhangra records are still being cut for the DJ market. Peacae... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Thu Sep 5 12:04:39 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Go to your local _good_ record store - the type that does not carry > > > the major labels, and is often filled with industrial noise, punk, or > > > something else to scare away customers. Most carry a good selection of > > > sleeves, liners, labels, boxes, etc.. Prices will mostly be the same, > > > so it probably is not worth shopping around. > > > > Are records still being made? I aussumed everyone was playing there > > old, but very well cared for collections. > > Some 33s and possibly some 45s are still being made, but AFAIK, they are > not sold in the US market. Sure they are! http://www.breakbeatscience.com/ Peace... Sridhar From MichaelDavidson at pacbell.net Thu Sep 5 12:04:44 2002 From: MichaelDavidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: DEC T-11 evaluation board (attn: Tony Eros) Message-ID: <3D7657EA.5F7A434E@pacbell.net> Last month Tony Eros was asking about documentation for the DCT11-FM T-11 evaluation board. I don't have any documentation, but I do have one of the boards and am in the process of creating an annontated disassembly of the monitor program. I would be happy to share this and/or compare notes with Tony and anyone who is interested. Michael Davidson michael_davidson@pacbell.net From vance at neurotica.com Thu Sep 5 12:04:53 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D75909E.1090702@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > Some 33s and possibly some 45s are still being made, but AFAIK, they are > > not sold in the US market. > > > > -Toth > > What market are they made for, the Japanese? Europe? I noticed that > many of the super expensive turntables I have seen online were form > these areas. I have one of those "super-expensive" turntables in the US. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Thu Sep 5 12:05:04 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:09 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D759CFC.2030308@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > Huh? Yeah they are. Just take a look through some 'modern' music on > > cdnow.com... Lots of hip-hop and techno is released this way. Some DJs > > prefer to use vinyl, because it sounds better, and (IMHO) is just more fun > > to handle than these little optical digital pieces of trash :). I've > > purchased a fair amount of vinyl (modern) music from cdnow. > > Oh Shoot, I forgot about the whole DJ/HipHop/twin-turntable scratching > thing. I guess they have to get records somewhere, although, I suppose > there DJ needles don't ruin records as fast as what an audiophile would use. DJ needles ruin records *much* faster then audiophile needles. True audiophile tables/tonearms/needles are balanced so they barely touch the record. Peace... Sridhar From kmarsh at dnsllc.com Thu Sep 5 12:05:10 2002 From: kmarsh at dnsllc.com (Kathy Marsh) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: Old Computers - Xerox Message-ID: <02FBFABBAC1CC042948C800F11DBE7B707E748@bass.dnserie.com> I was just viewing your site. I was wondering if you or anyone else would be interested in a Xerox 6085 System and a Xerox 4045 Laser CP Printer. Items included are: the Xerox 6085 CPU, 19" monitor, keyboard, infrared mouse, external 5 ?" floppy disk drive, Xerox ViewPoint Series Software (on 5 ?" floppy disks), additional 5 ?" floppy disks, Xerox 4045 Laser CP Printer, printer cable, and user manual for printer. Both are in working order. We have some photos available that I can e-mail to you if you are interested. We were thinking about putting the items on eBay, but haven't done so yet. If you would like to make an offer, please do so. I look forward to hearing from you in the near future :-) Kathy Marsh Office Manager Distributed Network Software 3250 West Lake Road Erie, PA 16505 (814) 838-5151 8A-3P, EST, Mon-Fri -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020905/60c87c24/attachment.html From vance at neurotica.com Thu Sep 5 12:05:25 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: Another VCF East!? was: Re: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: <3D7640DF.1020809@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > Another VCF East!? > > Very cool. I'll have to bring a much larger machine this time! I'm most probably going to be bringing some IBM big iron. If I can come up the money to truck the stuff in, that is. 8-) Peace... Sridhar > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > >On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > > > >>Maybe next time that there is a VCF East, we can link our two Imlacs and > >>play maze war. > >> > > > >Figure sometime between early April and early June for the next VCF East. > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > From Sofiana810 at hotmail.com Thu Sep 5 12:05:35 2002 From: Sofiana810 at hotmail.com (SH) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive driver Message-ID: Hi tehre, I have read your message, can you tell or give me the TEAC FD-55GFR driver. Please reply to me ASAP. Thank you very much -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020905/9f648265/attachment.html From ajw at awsoftware.org Thu Sep 5 12:05:45 2002 From: ajw at awsoftware.org (Anthony Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: FWD: TRS-80 Model I up for grabs (fwd) Message-ID: <20020905151051.39471.qmail@awsoftware.org> FYI ---- Forwarded Message ---- Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 02:35:37 -0700 From: George Phillips To:trs80@cs.ubc.caCc:fverde@comcast.net Subject: FWD: TRS-80 Model I up for grabs [ trs80@cs.ubc.ca only accepts posts from members purely to avoid spam. I'm forwarding this one to the list since it is clearly appropriate. ] I have a TRS 80 (bought Dec 1979) and lots of magazines (Computronics), manuals, original box, some software. Does anyone want this stuff before I take it to the dump? Frank Verde fverde@comcast.net 410/296-7531 (Baltimore, MD) From n4fs at monmouth.com Thu Sep 5 12:31:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) References: <200209051652.JAA26041@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <00f401c25501$343c71e0$d2775243@n4fs> Exactly, I just went through this exercise recently when I purchased a couple of GPS frequency reference receivers. They had an RS-422 interface with a DB-25 connector. In order to monitor its status or change some setup data it required the use of a PC and software for that is available. But, the PC has RS-232 with a DB-9. There are several companies out there that make chips, or chip sets, to do the conversion from one to the other. Maxim even sent me a couple of samples. Unfortunately they were in the SMD package and the lead spacing was just too close for me to be able to use them. Then, I found on ebay, a guy selling adapters from 422/232 and the reverse of course. They look like the typical gender changers except these have a DB-9 on one end and an RJ-45 on the other. I bought 4 of them for less than $5 each, brand new in original boxes. Of course I had to take one apart, to check it out, and it indeed did have several SMD ICs in it. The bottom line is they work great. So, do not confuse the fact that you may think they are similar. 422 by the way is specified to go almost 1000 feet, while with 232 you are lucky to get over 10 feet. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" To: Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 12:52 PM Subject: Re: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) > >From: "Gary Hildebrand" > > > >Eric Smith wrote: > >> > >> > > > Connecting EIA-232 directly to EIA-422 could let the smoke > >> out of something, and we certainly wouldn't want that. > >> > > > >ISTR that 422 was simply a balanced line version of 232. I think you > >can just tie to the non-inverting line and ground and make it work. > >Unless there's something else needed. > > > >Gary Hildebrand > >St. Joseph, MO > > > > NO!!!! > RS-422 inputs should not normally excede 7V. Many RS-232 > are driven with 12 volts. Also, RS-422 is offset above ground > and not intended to take large swings below ground. > Most RS-422 receivers do not include ground as part of their > common mode operation, so you can't tie one input to ground > and get it to work. > Dwight > > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Sep 5 12:32:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: PDP-8 "Introduction to Programming" References: <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> Message-ID: <3D779428.7000407@jetnet.ab.ca> Andreas Krennmair wrote: > Hello, > > I'm a student interested in retrocomputing. That's why I started > programming PDP-8 assembly a few days ago (Debian basically delivers all > you need to do that, i.e. simh and palbart). One problem I have is the > documentation. All that I found is either only a reference for the > PDP-8 instructions or the documentation of PAL III assembler. The third > thing I had as reference was the source code of OS/278. All in all, very > incomplete. Now I learned about the "Introduction to Programming" by > DEC, written for and about the PDP-8. Unfortunately I was unable to find > a copy of it on the internet. Now I ask whether anybody of you has a > copy of it (machine-readable preferred). In Austria, DEC hardware > doesn't seem to have been very popular at that time, so documentation > isn't easily available, either (it's even quite hard to get VAXen, > fortunately I did). > > Thanks in advance, > Andreas Krennmair I have a very ratty paper coverless copy here.:) I have not seen any thing on the internet as well. The book covers mostly using a PDP-8 with paper tape/TTY or a DECtape (TC08 controler) and the paper tape floating point package. However programing the PDP-8 is fairly straight forward as you only few instructions. The biggest problem is the memory limitation of the PDP-8 -- 128 word pages. A two good 8 links are: http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/ basic programing http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/ software, hardware docs Downloading the PDP-5 manual may be usefull as the PDP-8 is a similar product. From dittman at dittman.net Thu Sep 5 12:41:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: Free MicroVAX Diagnostics on 5.25" Disk (RX50) In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Sep 05, 2002 08:42:51 AM Message-ID: <200209051737.g85HbRA08823@narnia.int.dittman.net> > BTW, I was cruising www.montagar.com the other day, and ended up on an > HPaq page dealing with the VMS Hobbyist license. I forgot to bookmark > the page, but it clearly stated that all previous releases are covered > by the Hobbyist provisions. Does that mean that the Diagnostics disks & > tapes are now covered? The only products covered are those specifically licensed. AFAIK the diagnostics aren't covered by the Hobbyist license. Check with the Hobbyist folks to be sure. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From fernande at internet1.net Thu Sep 5 12:59:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup References: Message-ID: <3D779B5A.5080704@internet1.net> vance@neurotica.com wrote: > DJ needles ruin records *much* faster then audiophile needles. True > audiophile tables/tonearms/needles are balanced so they barely touch the > record. > > Peace... Sridhar What I meant was that an audiophile needle, if used in a DJ application, would ruin a record much faster than a DJ needle. At least that would be my guess. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Sep 5 13:22:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: Free MacUser Magazines ('91 - 97') Austin, TX References: <001f01c252b0$b92979a0$0201a8c0@nairobi> Message-ID: <003101c25509$292bd400$6b000240@oemcomputer> If you still have them next weekend I may be Austin to pick up some other items and could load them on the Van. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Murphy" To: Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 1:44 PM Subject: Free MacUser Magazines ('91 - 97') Austin, TX > I have approximately 100 issues of MacUser from 1991 - 1997. Anybody collect > these? Free for pickup in Austin, or will ship at your expense (book rate). > Will put in dumpster if nobody wants. > > Thanks, > Terry > > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Sep 5 13:28:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: Free MicroVAX Diagnostics on 5.25" Disk (RX50) In-Reply-To: <200209051737.g85HbRA08823@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > The only products covered are those specifically licensed. > AFAIK the diagnostics aren't covered by the Hobbyist license. > > Check with the Hobbyist folks to be sure. Um, not very likely. "Tis far better to ask forgiveness, than to ask permission" Doc From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Sep 5 13:43:01 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 04 Sep 2002 14:36:11 EDT." Message-ID: <200209041956.UAA04466@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, chris said: > my Rockola > jukebox is like that) Fine machines...I used to repair/maintain them many moons ago! Wish I could afford to buy one now. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From dittman at dittman.net Thu Sep 5 13:55:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: Free MicroVAX Diagnostics on 5.25" Disk (RX50) In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Sep 05, 2002 01:28:32 PM Message-ID: <200209051851.g85Ip2Q09143@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > The only products covered are those specifically licensed. > > AFAIK the diagnostics aren't covered by the Hobbyist license. > > > > Check with the Hobbyist folks to be sure. > > Um, not very likely. > > "Tis far better to ask forgiveness, than to ask permission" That's true, but even better is to get permission and make the diags freely available. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Sep 5 14:03:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) In-Reply-To: <3D77031D.9BAFCE36@ccp.com> References: <2609.4.20.168.169.1031187739.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <1fi04q1.1exyjwavrsghsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> <42089.64.169.63.74.1031209202.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3D77031D.9BAFCE36@ccp.com> Message-ID: <1142.4.20.168.164.1031252585.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > ISTR that 422 was simply a balanced line version of 232. I think you > can just tie to the non-inverting line and ground and make it work. > Unless there's something else needed. That won't work for more than one signal, since there isn't a common reference. Also, EIA-232 levels could damage EIA-422 devices. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Sep 5 14:16:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: PDP-8 "Introduction to Programming" Message-ID: > I have a very ratty paper coverless copy here.:) If it's that ratty, finish the job and drop through an sheet fed scanner :-) Antonio From mythtech at mac.com Thu Sep 5 14:55:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup Message-ID: >> my Rockola >> jukebox is like that) > > >Fine machines...I used to repair/maintain them many moons ago! >Wish I could afford to buy one now. I got mine from a friend. He was moving and didn't plan to take it with him. So he said I could come get it, but had to remove it from his basement. It is about the size of a thin desk, and weighs maybe 200 lbs (it is a table top like design, not the more stereotypical upright as seen on Happy Days). So I arranged to get a pickup, and a few large friends to help haul it from the basement. When I arrived, I found that my friend decided not to wait for me, and had put it out on curbside. I last spoke with him a week earlier, so I'm not sure how long it had been there. It had been raining all week to boot! The top had been opened by someone else, and any of the 45's that were reachable had been removed, as well as much of the carousel had been damaged from attempts to remove 45's that weren't reachable. Needless to say, I was pissed! But I took it, and spent the next two weeks on my back inside the thing, taking it apart, cleaning the rust, and repairing damaged parts. (I lucked out, the service manual was still inside, and remained mostly dry, so it was readable). It runs 99% fine now, and sounds pretty nice (very nice for an early 50's sound system, but obviously not quite as good as my surround sound system). The only problem it still has is one of the carousel selector sensors doesn't always make good contact, and if you try to play the 45 in that slot, it sometimes get stuck and just keeps spinning, never selecting the record. My guess is a spot of rust (much of it was rusted when I worked on it), but it is a pain to remove the unit, so I have ignored it for now. I still of course have to refinish the outside, as it was just totally damaged in the rain (the chrome plate rusted and bubbled off, the woodgrain siding peeled, and some decorative trim came unglued). When I buy a house, and have more room to work on it, I'll refinish the outside... but for now it lives at my parents house, and they just can't have nice things, so no sense fixing it up just for them to trash it again. -chris From allain at panix.com Thu Sep 5 15:22:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: PDP-8 "Introduction to Programming" References: <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> <3D779428.7000407@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <004201c25519$d8c7a0a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> There are two on eBay right now, of variable (but low) rattiness. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1560100494 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2050017071 John A. From tony.eros at machm.org Thu Sep 5 15:39:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: DEC T-11 evaluation board (attn: Tony Eros) In-Reply-To: <3D7657EA.5F7A434E@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020905163832.02760070@mail.njd.concentric.com> That would be great! I've received a copy of a product brochure that contains a sample program. I'll scan it shortly and post a pointer. -- Tony At 11:58 AM 9/4/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Last month Tony Eros was asking about documentation for the >DCT11-FM T-11 evaluation board. > >I don't have any documentation, but I do have one of the >boards and am in the process of creating an annontated >disassembly of the monitor program. > >I would be happy to share this and/or compare notes with >Tony and anyone who is interested. > >Michael Davidson > >michael_davidson@pacbell.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 5 15:40:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: WTD: Microvitec "CUB" 653 service/user manuals In-Reply-To: <005f01c254aa$1cd9bb40$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 5, 2 08:01:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 579 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020905/0d35f6c9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 5 15:41:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) In-Reply-To: <3D77031D.9BAFCE36@ccp.com> from "Gary Hildebrand" at Sep 5, 2 02:09:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 711 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020905/b3997cc3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 5 15:41:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: RF NTSC to PAL and SECAM to PAL conversions In-Reply-To: <009601c254c5$2d3c1d00$8301a8c0@george> from "George Kourvaras" at Sep 5, 2 01:15:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020905/33bf4d6a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 5 15:41:21 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) In-Reply-To: <00f401c25501$343c71e0$d2775243@n4fs> from "Mike Feher" at Sep 5, 2 01:25:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1711 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020905/5ba38b16/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Sep 5 15:55:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: References: <3D759CFC.2030308@internet1.net> Message-ID: >> > cdnow.com... Lots of hip-hop and techno is released this way. Some DJs >> > prefer to use vinyl, because it sounds better, and (IMHO) is just more fun >> > to handle than these little optical digital pieces of trash :). I've >> > purchased a fair amount of vinyl (modern) music from cdnow. >> >> there DJ needles don't ruin records as fast as what an audiophile would use. > >DJ needles ruin records *much* faster then audiophile needles. True >audiophile tables/tonearms/needles are balanced so they barely touch the >record. A good audiophile causes very little wear to records for a host of reasons; keeping the record clean, handling it very carefully, and using a well setup cartridge that is clean, aligned, and doesn't mistrack. The tip shape is also important, as the contact points in the groove wall are often different from common needles, so wear from a common needle is less of a problem. Without being too snooty, most people have no clue how nice a LP can sound when using the best equipment to play it back. Often very close to a good cd. Also an audiophile needle is NOT designed for cuing, ie being run backwards in the groove, and would likely break VERY soon. Some but not all audiophile cartridges are fairly delicate. One of my friends had a Signet that used a hollow tube of saphire for the cantilever (thing the diamond is mounted on directly). From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 5 16:23:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) In-Reply-To: <00f401c25501$343c71e0$d2775243@n4fs> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > similar. 422 by the way is specified to go almost 1000 feet, while with 232 > you are lucky to get over 10 feet. Regards - Mike That's not true. Serial cable can go for a good many feet before the signal breaks down (someone should pipe in with actual data ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Sep 5 16:25:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: References: <3D759CFC.2030308@internet1.net> Message-ID: <4396.4.20.168.164.1031261140.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Without being too snooty, most people have no clue how nice a LP can > sound when using the best equipment to play it back. Often very close > to a good cd. That doesn't sound snooty at all. The snooty audiophiles claim that even poorly master LPs sound better than well-mastered CDs. From n4fs at monmouth.com Thu Sep 5 16:43:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) References: Message-ID: <00a701c25525$39119640$d2775243@n4fs> OK, I may be wrong, ( will not be the first time) I do have the original Mil-STD or EIA specification on these interfaces, and admit that it is not my specialty, however, it is fact, to the best of my recollection, that 422 will be reliable over a lot more distance than RS-232. I will dig out the document, when I get a chance and quote actual specified numbers. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 9:24 AM Subject: Re: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) > On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > > > similar. 422 by the way is specified to go almost 1000 feet, while with 232 > > you are lucky to get over 10 feet. Regards - Mike > > That's not true. Serial cable can go for a good many feet before the > signal breaks down (someone should pipe in with actual data ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Sep 5 16:49:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: WTD: Microvitec "CUB" 653 service/user manuals References: Message-ID: <004201c25525$c9421fa0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Tony Duell wrote: >> Hi, >> I'm trying to track down a Service Manual and a User's Manual >> for my Microvitec Cub 653 RGB monitor. Has anyone here got copies of >> these manuals? > > What's the fualt? Most CUBs used similar circuitry (at least the TV > rate ones did), and conventional circuity at that. The PSU was a > TDA4600 design, and so on. No fault, I just want the manual in case it decides to go down on me. BTW, model number from rear panel is "1451 DS", serial number 204465. It has a TTL-level RGB interface, but the contrast control on the front panel doesn't have any effect - I think it's been switched over to Analog mode. It seems to work fine when connected to a BBC Micro (Master 128) though. Oh, and the control panel cover (the flip-down thing that hides the contrast control) is missing. But I can live without that. > HAve uyou tried Microvitec (if they're still around) and/or Mauritron? > The former used to be fairly friendly in supplying schematics, the > latter certainly used to sell copies of Microvitec manuals, but I > don't know if yours is amongst them Microvitec have put a notice up on their website - "We do not sell service manuals or schematics for our products. All servicing must be performed by Microvitec". It's in the "Service" section of their website (www.microvitec.co.uk IIRC). Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Sep 5 16:52:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: PDP-8 "Introduction to Programming" References: Message-ID: <3D77D12E.1060404@jetnet.ab.ca> Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I have a very ratty paper coverless copy here.:) > > If it's that ratty, finish the job and drop through > an sheet fed scanner :-) > > Antonio Ok .... Grind Grind Grind. Darn that was shreader not a scanner!!! I don't have one. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Sep 5 16:57:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: PDP-8 "Introduction to Programming" References: <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> <3D779428.7000407@jetnet.ab.ca> <004201c25519$d8c7a0a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3D77D26D.40501@jetnet.ab.ca> John Allain wrote: > There are two on eBay right now, of variable (but low) rattiness. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1560100494 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2050017071 > > John A. How ever since I hate E-bay I will make my copy free for the asking. I suspect somebody needs to do a scan of one as the original copy was not the great. From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Sep 5 17:23:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Eric Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > > Connecting EIA-232 directly to EIA-422 could let the smoke > > > out of something, and we certainly wouldn't want that. > > > > > > > ISTR that 422 was simply a balanced line version of 232. I think you > > can just tie to the non-inverting line and ground and make it work. > > I am _darn_ sure that the RS422 spec does not allow +/-25V to be applied > to the receiver input. Which an RS232 driver might well do. And in fact > there's no requirement (AFAIK) for the common mode range of the > differential input to include ground. Maybe the confusion occurs because one of the most common RS-422 receivers is the 26LS32C which does have a +- 15V input range (+- 25V abs max) > > It may work with Apple's so-called RS422, but that is so far from real > RS422 that I don't know how they got away with calling it that... > > -tony > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Sep 5 17:34:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) Message-ID: <200209052234.PAA26163@clulw009.amd.com> Hi 422 can be an impedance controlled line with terminations. 232 tends to be under driven on typical lines and unterminated. This means that an 232 signal will look like a stair case to the receiver input that on long runs may cause intermittent edges. At lower baud rates, most 232 receivers can handle this much distortion. Also, since it is under driven, the signal can be corrupted by even a small amount of outside noise. This is made even worse because it is single ended and any common mode noise can corrupt the signal. In other words, just because you ran it in your house for 30 feet and never saw an error doesn't mean it can be done in all cases. 422 is impedance controlled and can be used at baud rates up to 5 or 10 MHz ( depending on manufacturer ). It can do this until resistive losses bring the level too low to be detected. Being differential, only common mode noise that pushed it beyond the common mode will be an issue and if the noise is short term, the receivers are designed to not switch the outputs until they are brought back into the common mode. I once designed a communications bus using RS-485 ( similar to RS-422 ) lines to interconnect several machines in a noisy environment. The previous design used RS-232 and was not robust enough to work in that same environment. The lines were less than 15 feet on the RS-232. The RS-485 setup ran for over 10 years without logging a single bit of data loss ( there were several component failures during that time that don't count ). Dwight >From: "Mike Feher" > > >OK, I may be wrong, ( will not be the first time) I do have the original >Mil-STD or EIA specification on these interfaces, and admit that it is not >my specialty, however, it is fact, to the best of my recollection, that 422 >will be reliable over a lot more distance than RS-232. I will dig out the >document, when I get a chance and quote actual specified numbers. Regards - >Mike > > > >Mike B. Feher, N4FS >89 Arnold Blvd. >Howell NJ, 07731 >(732) 901-9193 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sellam Ismail" >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 9:24 AM >Subject: Re: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) > > >> On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: >> >> > similar. 422 by the way is specified to go almost 1000 feet, while with >232 >> > you are lucky to get over 10 feet. Regards - Mike >> >> That's not true. Serial cable can go for a good many feet before the >> signal breaks down (someone should pipe in with actual data ;) >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org >> >> * Old computing resources for business and academia at >www.VintageTech.com * >> >> > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Sep 5 17:37:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > similar. 422 by the way is specified to go almost 1000 feet, while with 232 > > you are lucky to get over 10 feet. Regards - Mike On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > That's not true. Serial cable can go for a good many feet before the > signal breaks down (someone should pipe in with actual data ;) It'll handle way more than its spec calls for. When researching the content for "RS232 Solution", Joe Campbell ran it through a couple of thousand feet of wire (on a spool). Well, I guess that by being on a spool, the two ends were less than 10 feet apart. :-) The original IBM PC Parallel Printer Port was the one that was spec'ed at 10 feet (3 meters). I often ran 30 feet with it. I have no idea what the spec is for 1284. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Sep 5 18:07:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) Message-ID: <200209052307.QAA26178@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > >> > similar. 422 by the way is specified to go almost 1000 feet, while with 232 >> > you are lucky to get over 10 feet. Regards - Mike > >On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: >> That's not true. Serial cable can go for a good many feet before the >> signal breaks down (someone should pipe in with actual data ;) > >It'll handle way more than its spec calls for. When researching the >content for "RS232 Solution", Joe Campbell ran it through a couple of >thousand feet of wire (on a spool). Well, I guess that by being on a >spool, the two ends were less than 10 feet apart. :-) > > >The original IBM PC Parallel Printer Port was the one that was spec'ed at >10 feet (3 meters). I often ran 30 feet with it. >I have no idea what the spec is for 1284. > > Hi Fred Did he stretch the spools out and put a 5 PH blower that cycles on and off in each machine at the ends. I think not! There is a big difference between running a signal through a spool ( effective length for noise being vary short ) and running in a low noise environment as compared to many real world environments. In the spool, he was only looking at resistive loss and not any of the other factors. On your PC example, it was intended to run in a low noise environment. If it failed to work, IBM would simple shrug and say 'You are only suppose to run it with a nice PC and nothing else. It was never intended to be used like that.' Besides, the parallel port is suppose to be a terminated signal and not subject to issues of under driven, as in the case of RS-232. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 5 18:14:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: WTD: Microvitec "CUB" 653 service/user manuals In-Reply-To: <004201c25525$c9421fa0$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 5, 2 10:47:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1385 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020905/d8e67414/attachment.ksh From zaft at azstarnet.com Thu Sep 5 18:24:00 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon C. Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: OT Housecleaning -- Hazeltine 1552 terminal Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020905162235.03362ea8@pop.azstarnet.com> I have an old Hazeltine 1552 terminal with docs that I need to get rid of, I am cleaning house. IT DOES NOT WORK, as far as I can tell -- screen powers up filled with junk. It's probably fixable to those that are handy with such things. Anyway, anyone wants it and is willing to come get it or pay for shipping, it's yours, otherwise it goes to the recyclers next week. I'm in Tucson Arizona. Please respond offlist. Gordon Gordon Zaft zaft@azstarnet.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 5 18:29:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020905232910.67475.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > similar. 422 by the way is specified to go almost 1000 feet, while > > > with 232 you are lucky to get over 10 feet. Regards - Mike > > On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > That's not true. Serial cable can go for a good many feet before the > > signal breaks down (someone should pipe in with actual data ;) Real world counter example: VAX 11/750 in machine room with multiple Emulex CS/21 16-port serial cards. Terminals in various offices strewn about a 3000 sq ft single- story office/warehouse space. Telco 25-pair cables going from patch panel in machine room, up to 18' high ceilings, along, then dropped down into individual offices to provide 8 ports per office (Nevada Western RJ-11 wiring system). Typical run - 150 feet from VT100 to VAX over unshielded cable. Terminal speed - 9600 bps. To wake the VMS terminal driver, one hit RETURN a couple of times. This reliably produced one "u" echoed on the terminal per RETURN sent. Once in use, no further ghosted characters appeared. Other than that, the terminals were reliable. We even used the same wiring for Kermit between machines in the machine room and at our desks (for those few of us who had a development system in addition to the ubiquitous terminals). So... 150-200 feet is OK for 9600 baud, but not entirely error free. > It'll handle way more than its spec calls for. When researching the > content for "RS232 Solution", Joe Campbell ran it through a couple of > thousand feet of wire (on a spool). Well, I guess that by being on a > spool, the two ends were less than 10 feet apart. :-) Baud rate is part of the equation for transmission length with EIA-232. The charts I've seen have a max length that tapers off at speeds over 1200 bps ISTR. The distance at 19200 bps is substantially lower than even 2400 bps (50%?) -ethan P.S. - the cool part is that I have some of this stuff in my walls at home - I have two 25-pair cables between the computer room and the basement - one for phone, one for terminal sessions. It was nice when I had multiple phone lines (fax/modem, home voice, home-office voice). I'm down to one live voice pair out of 25, but the multiple terminal lines are nice. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Sep 5 18:53:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: DEC T-11 evaluation board (attn: Tony Eros) Message-ID: <200209052353.TAA07266@shell.TheWorld.com> I haven't received my board yet (I bought the third one of them that was up at auction on ebay). Wehn it comes in I will be very interested in learning how to operate it and maybe get something running on it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From zaft at azstarnet.com Thu Sep 5 19:04:00 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon C. Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: OT -- more housecleaning -- Victor computer Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020905170237.0337f490@pop.azstarnet.com> Okay, I have a Victor computer and monitor. It has a single 5.25" floppy drive. I've not opened it up but I suspect it's an early PC clone. The monitor plugs into the back of the PC and has no power cord or other attachments. The machine powers on, seemingly, but I get no display at all. I don't have a keyboard for it either. Anyone who wants it can have it, otherwise it goes to the recyclers next week. I'm in Tucson, AZ. Please contact me offlist. GZ Gordon Zaft zaft@azstarnet.com From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 5 20:31:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) In-Reply-To: <00a701c25525$39119640$d2775243@n4fs> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > OK, I may be wrong, ( will not be the first time) I do have the original > Mil-STD or EIA specification on these interfaces, and admit that it is > not my specialty, however, it is fact, to the best of my recollection, > that 422 will be reliable over a lot more distance than RS-232. I will > dig out the document, when I get a chance and quote actual specified > numbers. Regards - Mike That I don't doubt. But I know for a fact that RS232 will work over distances greater than just 10 feet as I've done it before and very reliably :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Sep 5 20:34:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: OT -- more housecleaning -- Victor computer In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020905170237.0337f490@pop.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Gordon C. Zaft wrote: > Okay, I have a Victor computer and monitor. It has a single 5.25" floppy > drive. I've not opened it up but I suspect it's an early PC clone. The It's WAY more interesting than a clone! Of all of the machines that can run some variant of MS-DOS, it is the least like a PC. little things, like GCR on 96TPI drives. From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Fri Sep 6 01:02:00 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: more eBay stuff - not mine! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c2556a$b7d6d7c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> UK punters able to collect from the Lake District may be interested in a MINC-11 that has so far not received any bids: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2049643025 I am tempted ... but its a long way away for me. Andy From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Fri Sep 6 01:08:00 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: also interesting on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c2556b$9d3bd180$4d4d2c0a@atx> another item on UK eBay may also be extremely interesting ... if rather expensive: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2051100106 is a BBC Domesday setup in (mostly) working order. Andy From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Sep 6 03:23:01 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drive s) Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E9C@BUSH02> >> similar. 422 by the way is specified to go almost 1000 feet, while >> with 232 you are lucky to get over 10 feet. Regards - Mike > That's not true. Serial cable can go for a good many feet before > the signal breaks down (someone should pipe in with actual data ;) 450 feet at 9600 bps through multi strand sheilded cable. This was between two buildings and ran through a drain to get under a road. 19200 bps was tried but was error prone. dropping the speed to 9600 bps worked. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact VT Merlin Communications Ltd IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Sep 6 05:42:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: IBM Aptiva for parts References: <137.13bf791f.2aa83c6b@aol.com> Message-ID: <005701c25592$1f46e040$3c00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 12:49 AM Subject: Re: IBM Aptiva for parts > In a message dated 9/4/2002 8:41:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > rschaefe@gcfn.org writes: > > << Move-out week is over on campus, but I decided hit a couple of alleys on > the > way home anyway. The only thing of interest I found was a skinless, > stripped Aptiva that I nearly passed up, but then I noticed that the slots > were on an active riser card so I picked it up anyway. The power supply has > some extra wires on it, too. I figure these are odd enough to be hard to > replace if you get a bad one. If anyone wants the parts for $postage, let > me know. I've got: >> > > is there a machine type/model number listed anywhere? sounds like a 2168-??? > model. Oops-- thought I had that in there. It's a model 2168, type 2R9(SL-H), S/N 23DTRN8, Mfg date 512. The chassis was bent a little, so I pitched that, but there's still time to pull it out. Bob From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Sep 6 06:17:01 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: Paper tape reader/punch restoration Message-ID: <3D788DFD.12275361@gifford.co.uk> I'm just starting to fix up and restore a very fine old paper tape reader, a GNT 4104. It's a photoelectric model and can go up to 1000 characters per second. It was originally used on a CTL Modular One, and has the CTL logo and "1.32" designation. Next, I'll have a look at the Facit 4070 paper tape punch. This seems to be a common model, and there's interfacing info available on the web. I also have a supply of blank paper tape! What I need is a recommendation for finding teletype oil, or something similar to lubricate the mechanical parts of these machines. The oil on the machines at the moment seems to have got very sticky, and nothing moves freely any more. Oh, and I do have manuals for both of these machines. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From voyager at hol.gr Fri Sep 6 07:15:01 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (George Kourvaras) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:10 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) References: Message-ID: <003c01c2559f$0fb3d540$8301a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" > That I don't doubt. But I know for a fact that RS232 will work over > distances greater than just 10 feet as I've done it before and very > reliably :) > RS422 will work for 10x ~ 30x times longer cables of the same quality then :-)) From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Sep 6 07:16:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: Paper tape reader/punch restoration In-Reply-To: <3D788DFD.12275361@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020906070948.02477e18@pc> At 12:14 PM 9/6/2002 +0100, John Honniball wrote: >What I need is a recommendation for finding teletype oil, or >something similar to lubricate the mechanical parts of these >machines. The oil on the machines at the moment seems to have >got very sticky, and nothing moves freely any more. As I recall from the (as you might imagine endless) conversations on the Greenkeys RTTY mailing list, you'll do just fine with any sort of synthetic heavyweight auto oil. Or a good 3-in-1 oil. As you note, it's more important to clean and free those sticky joints, and then use a real oil. - John From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Sep 6 08:36:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: [jpadilla@students.uiuc.edu: Re: p.s. Re: card reader (fwd)] Message-ID: <20020906133656.GB4136669@uiuc.edu> Hey everyone, This is a request from someone in Aeronautical Engineering at the University of Illinois. If you think you can help him out, please contact him directly. Thanks, Dan ----- Forwarded message from "Jose F. Padilla" ----- Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:29:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jose F. Padilla" To: Dan Wright Subject: Re: p.s. Re: card reader (fwd) Dan, a shoe box full of 80 column punch cards containing an old FORTRAN code would be converted to an ASCII text file. Thanks. -Jose >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< Jose F. Padilla, Research Assistant and Graduate Student Department of Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Work: 217 244 1447; Base: 217 377 7310; Christ Delivers >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< >=< ----- End forwarded message ----- - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020906/a3b36e1b/attachment.bin From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Sep 6 09:14:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube Message-ID: Sufficiently retro to be interesting. Take a look at http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/Pax4b-533tube1.htm. The tube is used in an onboard audio preamp. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Sep 6 09:20:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: Otrona Attache boards on eBay Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2052204164. 5 motherboards, 3 16-bit addon boards, docs, and a _set of schematics_. Only problem is that many/most of the socketed chips have been pulled. I'm interested in the schematics for my 8:16, but have no need for all the boards. I thought John Wren had it yesterday with Buy It Now ($15.00), but it is relisted today. From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Sep 6 09:40:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: Otrona Attache boards on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yea, I'm curious about that too, and waiting a reply. I did Buy-It-Now. On the other hand, I know Donald bought all the Otrona inventory when they folded, so he may have multiple sets like that. I have three Attaches, of which two work. The other has a wonky keyboard, and the video doesn't always come up (logic side). With schematics, I can fix it. That's one of the things I'm needing out of that buy. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:20 To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: Otrona Attache boards on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2052204164. 5 motherboards, 3 16-bit addon boards, docs, and a _set of schematics_. Only problem is that many/most of the socketed chips have been pulled. I'm interested in the schematics for my 8:16, but have no need for all the boards. I thought John Wren had it yesterday with Buy It Now ($15.00), but it is relisted today. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 6 10:04:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020906110607.516f0a68@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> You gotta be kidding! It's not even April Fool's Day yet! Joe At 08:14 AM 9/6/02 -0600, you wrote: >Sufficiently retro to be interesting. > >Take a look at http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/Pax4b-533tube1.htm. The tube >is used in an onboard audio preamp. > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 6 10:09:39 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: Otrona Attache boards on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020906110715.496f5308@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> From what the seller says he has a bunch of this stuff so he probably relisted the auction to sell another batch of the stuff. Joe At 10:40 AM 9/6/02 -0400, you wrote: > Yea, I'm curious about that too, and waiting a reply. I did Buy-It-Now. >On the other hand, I know Donald bought all the Otrona inventory when they >folded, so he may have multiple sets like that. I have three Attaches, of >which two work. The other has a wonky keyboard, and the video doesn't >always come up (logic side). With schematics, I can fix it. That's one of >the things I'm needing out of that buy. > > --John > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >Behalf Of Feldman, Robert >Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:20 >To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' >Subject: Otrona Attache boards on eBay > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2052204164. > >5 motherboards, 3 16-bit addon boards, docs, and a _set of schematics_. Only >problem is that many/most of the socketed chips have been pulled. I'm >interested in the schematics for my 8:16, but have no need for all the >boards. > >I thought John Wren had it yesterday with Buy It Now ($15.00), but it is >relisted today. > > > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Sep 6 10:12:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT: wire recorders Message-ID: I guess this is only slightly OT, since this particular recorder dates from around 1948-1950 ;) I managed to rescue a Webster Chicago model 79 wire recorder from a shelf that was overlooked in my friend's shop after most of it had been dumped into the dumpster. The model 79 was sold as a bare-bones unit without any audio circuitry, while the model 80, which used the same mechanism, was a complete unit. A little more info about Webster Chicago wire recorders can be found at [http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dmorton/webcor.htm], and more info about wire recorders in general can be found at [http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dmorton/wire_recorders.htm]. The audio circuitry that my friend built for this model 79 appears to be long gone, so in order to play back the 3 reels of wire I also rescued, I'm going to have to recreate it. I managed to found the instruction manual in a binder in the dumpster, but I don't have a service manual (though I'd certainly like to find one). The instruction manual covers the use of the model 79 and a basic design for the audio circuitry. If anyone else has a model 79 or 80, or thinks it might otherwise be worthwhile, I'm willing to scan the manual if someone has a place to host it on the web. -Toth From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Sep 6 10:20:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube References: Message-ID: <3D78C703.227D0D5@ccp.com> "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > > Sufficiently retro to be interesting. I saw the article in Poptronics. Instead of looking for CMOS raam, can you see the owner of that board looking for a 12AT7 at the local Radio Shack??? Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Sep 6 10:23:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube References: <3.0.6.16.20020906110607.516f0a68@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D78C785.6070604@jetnet.ab.ca> Joe wrote: > You gotta be kidding! It's not even April Fool's Day yet! >>Take a look at http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/Pax4b-533tube1.htm. The tube >>is used in an onboard audio preamp. I hope that is well sheilded. I bet that uses less power and runs cooler than the CPU. :) Once you have tried tube audio with high quality parts you never want to go back to cheap audio stuff again. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Sep 6 10:36:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube References: <3D78C703.227D0D5@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3D78CAA7.1040805@jetnet.ab.ca> Gary Hildebrand wrote: > "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > >>Sufficiently retro to be interesting. > > > I saw the article in Poptronics. Instead of looking for CMOS raam, can > you see the owner of that board looking for a 12AT7 at the local Radio > Shack??? Well if they still sold real hi-fi they might. If they still sold real parts too you might find CMOS ram even. Still upset over RS for not designing the COCO as the REAL computer rather than selling all the Z80 trash**. Nobody in the USA made a nice 6809 machine. Mind you in hindsight 64k ram is too small many real problems on a computer. Split code and data (64k) is better but I don't think the 6809 would let you do that. ** one mans trash is another mans ... From rhb57 at vol.com Fri Sep 6 10:47:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <3D78C785.6070604@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: I have a feeling that we are regressing into progression - having to use old but terrific technology to be able to make things better again. I had to actually search around to be sure it was even part of AOpen's site - and now that I see it's true I have to wonder where the heater current is going to come from (unless the big fat cap does that) and how much this is going to cost (I think I'm lusting towards one, just to say I have a tube computer that's brand new). I think the covers over the chips must be the shields but you'd think that one tube shield around the tube would work better, unless they wanted the tube cooled well. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Ben Franchuk -> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:20 AM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube -> -> -> Joe wrote: -> > You gotta be kidding! It's not even April Fool's Day yet! -> >>Take a look at -> http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/Pax4b-533tube1.htm. The tube -> >>is used in an onboard audio preamp. -> -> I hope that is well sheilded. I bet that uses less power -> and runs cooler than the CPU. :) Once you have tried tube -> audio with high quality parts you never want to go back -> to cheap audio stuff again. -> -> From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Sep 6 11:46:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020906110607.516f0a68@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: It's actually a real motherboard. I think hardOCP did a write-up on it. g. On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > You gotta be kidding! It's not even April Fool's Day yet! > > Joe > > > At 08:14 AM 9/6/02 -0600, you wrote: > >Sufficiently retro to be interesting. > > > >Take a look at http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/Pax4b-533tube1.htm. The tube > >is used in an onboard audio preamp. > > > > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Sep 6 12:06:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: also interesting on eBay In-Reply-To: "Andy Holt" "also interesting on eBay" (Sep 6, 7:07) References: <000501c2556b$9d3bd180$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <10209060823.ZM23902@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 6, 7:07, Andy Holt wrote: > another item on UK eBay may also be extremely interesting ... if rather > expensive: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2051100106 > is a BBC Domesday setup in (mostly) working order. AFAICS the only notable problems are the scratch on the video montage disc, which might be less of a problem if the buyer solved the other problem: lack of the remote control. The remote is only used to skip through the montage (which is one of four sides), it's not used for anything else, so it's not a big deal. However, I'll make the same offer I made to the BBC mailing list when it appeared there: if the winning bidder is a list member, contact me, as I think I have a spare remote for the player. I may also have a manual (but probably not the complete set). BTW, the seller appears to have the other two interactive discs that were released for the system, in his other auctions. Of course, the LaserVision player will play "ordinary" LaserVison video discs as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Sep 6 13:01:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drives) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Sep 2002 06:24:08 PDT." Message-ID: <200209060745.IAA20255@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Sellam Ismail said: > On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > > > similar. 422 by the way is specified to go almost 1000 feet, while with 232 > > you are lucky to get over 10 feet. Regards - Mike > > That's not true. Serial cable can go for a good many feet before the > signal breaks down (someone should pipe in with actual data ;) I've got a RS232 cable running 30 feet from down here to the upstairs radio shack so I can have the PDP emulator upstairs and the terminal down here. Works fine up to 57600 but won't do 115200. The terminal only goes up to 19200 so that's ok. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Sep 6 13:37:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT: wire recorders - skip if no interest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry for the OT; this bears on classic restoration, albeit broadly. Toth, the head in a wire recorder is fairly low impedance. There were a couple of precompensation schemes used to boost the low end, somewhat like the curve applied to phonograph recordings, but nowhere near as severe as records. Transfer the wire to a more modern medium first, then 'play' with it. I have three machines here, a Brush and two Webcors, one of which has been modified for handling damaged or abused wire. I don't use the old electronics in them anymore, though the Webcors work fine. You can just hook the head leads up to a decent stereo with a 'Tape Head' or 'Tape In' facility. Then it might be necessary to apply EQ to the signal. You can of course hook up to your computer for recording to the HD - I would suggest the Microphone input for best S/N ratio. Then you can massage the program on the wire in your favorite Audio Workstation program. ALL THAT BEING SAID: it is more important, IMHO, to handle the wire safely - you never know what could be on it. I rescued the Brush Soundmirror at a ham swapmeet for $5. It had two spools of wire in the lid. One was a bunch of poorly recorded, often unintelligible 'family' stuff and radio programs. On the other, however, was a well-made recording (off radio) of a speech that Pres. Truman gave to the NAACP conference in 1950. It turns out that there was no record made of the speech itself, only that he had been there and given it. I transfered the speech to CD via ProTools, then sent the wire and a copy of the CD to the Library of Congress, and got back a nice letter and a commendation certificate from them. SO: Before loading wire on the old deck, give it a nice lube and run it in all modes for a while. [DO NOT lube the wire!!] The Webcors all used large rubber-rimmed drive pucks and many times the machine was left in "play" with the power off for decades, causing dents that need to be worked out. Especially make sure that the take-up torque is gentle and even, and that the hold-back brakes are still working. Wire moves pretty fast and has considerable rotational inertia - once wire 'gets away from you' (imagine stainless steel fishing line!) it nearly always needs to be cut and spliced and cleaned... you end up with silver clumps of hoplessly tangled knots everywhere. And you 'splice' wire by tying it in tiny knots - ugly but true... If you have any other issues or troubles with the machine, let me know off-list and we can sort it out. If the machine is not capable of handling the wire safely anymore, you can always send me your spools and I'll transfer them for you. I now return you to your currently-running Cctalk, already in progress. ;} Cheers John From gstreet at indy.net Fri Sep 6 13:39:01 2002 From: gstreet at indy.net (Robert Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: S-100 Question (ISC Computer/Seattle Computer Products) In-Reply-To: <20020905170002.53382.20393.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020906134116.00b69330@pop.onemain.com> Back on June 9th of this year (Classic Tech Eletter #11), someone thoughtfully posted the paragraph at the bottom of this message (on this newsgroup). Coincidentally, I had already found the same S-100 computer and I eventually ended up winning the bid (I was the only bidder). I only very recently received this machine (it was slightly damaged in shipping, and it _really_ was filthy! (There was an enormous delay in shipping it to me.) I've got the damage straightened out and I completely disassembled it for cleaning. I just got it back together last night and turned on the switch. I seems to power up and the led's come on (led near the on/off switch and 3 led's on the backplane/motherboard). I talked to one person who said that he thought that he'd had an ISC computer before, but that it wasn't pure S-100. The reason that I bought this machine is that I have some Seattle Computer Products S-100 cards that I really want to get running. They drop in the ISC "S-100" computer _perfectly_, but I have not powered it up with the SCP cards in place. If there's something that's not "pure S-100" about the ISC, I don't want to damage the SCP cards. I just checked the link (below) and it still works. I think the link will disappear in just a few more days (90 days), so I can provide the same pictures to anyone interested after the link disappears. The reason it's taken so long to ask this question is because it took over 2 months for me to actually receive the unit (now the darned link is ready to vanish, probably on Sept 10th). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2029719366 I cannot find _any_ information about ISC Systems Corp., Spokane, WA. It's an absolutely beautifully crafted unit and from the filthy condition that I received it in--it appears to have been left running for, perhaps, _years_! The seller claimed that he'd removed the existing cards to install in his Altair, but if that's true, someone must have already substituted different cards--in the pictures, you'll notice a bunch of twisted pair and other small gauge wires: these all appear to hook up to what would seem to be "non-standard" S-100 cards, through proprietary connectors. I cannot fathom how the original ISC cards could have been of any use to anyone except a user of this ISC system. It appears that the "non-standard" wires go to things like: keyboard, monitor, a network and LP 1 and LP 2 (LPT 1 & LPT 2??). There is yet another connector that I've no clue as to what it might do. _BUT_, _if_ the box itself conforms to the S-100 standard, and if I can use the SCP cards, all the other wires don't matter, because they won't be connected to anything. I've really taken a liking to this machine--I hope I can use it! Any help would be much appreciated! Thank you, Robert Greenstreet gstreet@indy.net > >At 08:33 PM 6/9/02 -0400, you wrote: >CLASSIC TECH ELETTER, Vol. 1, Issue 11 > >It's too bad the seller gutted this ISC Systems S-100 computer. If it >sells close to the opening bid, however, the buyer will get a good deal on >an S-100 starter system. (The seller's right about the system needing a >cleaning. You could knit a sweater with all the lint stuck in the fan >vent.) From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Sep 6 14:15:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: Amiga goodies clearance Message-ID: <3D78FDE6.507715B1@ccp.com> Having had next to no interest in the usenet groups, I'm cleaning out my stash of Zorro cards and other Amiga goodies. Included are: Toaster 2000 cards, Flyer cards, A2065 Ethernet, A2091 SCSI with 2 Meg RAM, PP&S 040 accelerators, and memory cards. If you are interested e-mail me off-list and we can either go cash and carry or trade. I'm interested in SCSI-3 drives of more than 1 gig, an LCD display for an Apple IIc+, or anything to make an A1200 into a towerized computer, including case, slot expander, etc. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Sep 6 14:29:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <3D78CAA7.1040805@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3D78C703.227D0D5@ccp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020906134502.00a700f8@mail.30below.com> At 09:32 09/06/2002 -0600, Ben Franchuk wrote: [snip] >Well if they still sold real hi-fi they might. If they still sold real >parts too you might find CMOS ram even. Still upset over RS for not designing >the COCO as the REAL computer rather than selling all the Z80 trash**. Define "real" -- Admittedly, the CoCo1's chicklet keyboard sucked bigtime, but The CoCo2/3's keyboard is as good as anything made nowadays... (that's why the newest keyboard I use on any PeeCee is an IBM "klackety" keyboard from '84 or so... and wouldn't mind having an interface for these on my CoCo...) and although they were a little harder to upgrade than today's machines, they were easier to hack & interface to. Sure, they weren't on par to the minis & mainframes of the same timeframe, but that's true today; and it was still a very capable, affordable & expandable computer in it's own right. [whew... just had to get that out of the way; 6809's being my favorite & all... ;-) ] >Nobody in the USA made a nice 6809 machine. Huh? That's where I beg to differ with you! I *lusted* over the ads in HotCoCo & Rainbow mags for the Chieftain (methinks... weren't many of those ads), and even more so, the Gimix... The Gimix was one *bitchin'* box - ran OS-9 level 2 (wasn't there a level 3 for that?), it could take 512K of RAM if you wanted it to, and this was by '83 or '84... It truly was a mini, as it was designed to run multiuser apps on multiple terminals with no problem... I dunno if they ever made a video card for it.... Anyone have a Gimix that needs a new, loving home??? hint, hint, hint... >Mind you in hindsight 64k ram >is too small many real problems on a computer. Maybe if the "real" problems you are talking about are displaying JPGs & whatnot... the only thing I can think of that doesn't involve grafix which is too much for it involves Crypto... >Split code and data (64k) >is better but I don't think the 6809 would let you do that. >** one mans trash is another mans ... No, it couldn't - it was a flat memory space. However, with the right SAM, bank switching was available & with some "creative memory accounting" it worked quite well, especially with OS-9. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it... Roger "Merch" Merchberger From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Sep 6 15:04:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube References: <3D78C703.227D0D5@ccp.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020906134502.00a700f8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3D790963.6020408@jetnet.ab.ca> Roger Merchberger wrote: > Define "real" -- Admittedly, the CoCo1's chicklet keyboard sucked > bigtime, but The CoCo2/3's keyboard is as good as anything made > nowadays... (that's why the newest keyboard I use on any PeeCee is an > IBM "klackety" keyboard from '84 or so... and wouldn't mind having an > interface for these on my CoCo...) and although they were a little > harder to upgrade than today's machines, they were easier to hack & > interface to. Sure, they weren't on par to the minis & mainframes of the > same timeframe, but that's true today; and it was still a very capable, > affordable & expandable computer in it's own right. Not really a general purpose computer more like the game console box of today. The C64/Coco/Apple was the quick and simple computer - 8k rom - 64k D-ram and a graphics chip and CPU. It was the cost cutting that got ya like none of the common 8 bit computers had a serial port. Even the AT was too cheap to drive the IRQ open collector. > [whew... just had to get that out of the way; 6809's being my favorite & > all... ;-) ] That was a toss up for me between the 6809 and the PDP-8. Needless to say I working a 12/24 bit CPU that reminds you of the 6809. http://www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html >> Nobody in the USA made a nice 6809 machine. > > > Huh? That's where I beg to differ with you! I *lusted* over the ads in > HotCoCo & Rainbow mags for the Chieftain (methinks... weren't many of > those ads), and even more so, the Gimix... The Gimix was one *bitchin'* > box - ran OS-9 level 2 (wasn't there a level 3 for that?), it could take > 512K of RAM if you wanted it to, and this was by '83 or '84... It truly > was a mini, as it was designed to run multiuser apps on multiple > terminals with no problem... I dunno if they ever made a video card for > it.... I had forgot about them. > No, it couldn't - it was a flat memory space. However, with the right > SAM, bank switching was available & with some "creative memory > accounting" it worked quite well, especially with OS-9. I suspect one could decode the opcodes since you get instruction fetch information with the 6809.. > That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it... > Roger "Merch" Merchberger Mind you with fast ram now days and programable logic a nice OS-9 machine could be built. Finding a fast 6809 chip is the problem. Boy I wish OS-9 was open source. From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Sep 6 15:37:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <3D790963.6020408@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3D78C703.227D0D5@ccp.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020906134502.00a700f8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020906162230.023dde88@mail.30below.com> At 14:00 09/06/2002 -0600, Ben Franchuk wrote: >Not really a general purpose computer more like the game console box of today. >The C64/Coco/Apple was the quick and simple computer - 8k rom - 64k D-ram >and a graphics chip and CPU. It was the cost cutting that got ya like none of >the common 8 bit computers had a serial port. Huh? The CoCo had a standard RS-232 port, with the exception of the control lines. It ran standard RS-232 voltages & with software handshaking worked just fine, albeit slowly as it was bit-banged instead of UART driven (which on the CoCo1 & 2 I can sympathize with... but to not include a UART on the CoCo3 as they'd become *very* cheap by then, that was just plain *stoopid*... :-( ) >Mind you with fast ram now days and programable logic a nice OS-9 >machine could be built. Finding a fast 6809 chip is the problem. >Boy I wish OS-9 was open source. Huh? 40Mhz ain't fast enough for you for a 6809??? :-) Check here: http://www.inicore.com/core_lib/inicpu.htm Granted, I have *no* idea how much these cost or anything... :-/ *I* wish OS-9/68K was available for my Palm... It'd knock PalmOS for a loop! Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 6 16:01:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020906134502.00a700f8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Define "real" -- Admittedly, the CoCo1's chicklet keyboard sucked bigtime, > but The CoCo2/3's keyboard is as good as anything made nowadays... (that's With one glaring exception: NO CONTROL KEY. What computer comes without a CONTROL key? That and the RF video out only with no built-in composite video output would have made the CoCo a complete lemon if it weren't for the brilliance of the users that managed to extend and expand it. And OS-9 was also a definite plus. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 6 16:10:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020906162230.023dde88@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20020906211048.42776.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Roger Merchberger wrote: > At 14:00 09/06/2002 -0600, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > >The C64/Coco/Apple was the quick and simple computer - 8k rom - 64k > >D-ram and a graphics chip and CPU. It was the cost cutting that got ya > >like none of the common 8 bit computers had a serial port. > > Huh? The CoCo had a standard RS-232 port, with the exception of the > control lines. It ran standard RS-232 voltages & with software > handshaking worked > > just fine, albeit slowly as it was bit-banged instead of UART driven... The VIC-20 and the C-64 also had bit-banged serial ports. You could drive a 300 bps modem directly from them (the VIC MODEM, bane of CompuServe customer service people) and buy/make EIA level converters. I had an EIA adapter for my C-64. I also transferred files to and from an Apple II over 1200 bps TTL (my buddy had his own bit-banging routines to use the game port - I used the built-in routines from BASIC to transfer files ;-) No UART, true. No RS-232, also true; but the VIC-20 and the C-64 _did_ have a serial port that even worked from BASIC (I wrote my own terminal program to use with the VIC MODEM and CompuServe). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Fri Sep 6 16:20:00 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube Message-ID: <1180775276-31717787@watermarkpress.com> > On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >> Define "real" -- Admittedly, the CoCo1's chicklet keyboard sucked bigtime, >> but The CoCo2/3's keyboard is as good as anything made nowadays... (that's > > With one glaring exception: NO CONTROL KEY. > > What computer comes without a CONTROL key? Sellam's been dying to bring that up. Did you notice that "Control" key on that CoCo 3 of yours? Anyway I think most CoCo 1-2 terminal emulators use the Break key as a control key. Not very slick, but it worked. What really sucked was the 32 column screen. I never bought one of the many 80 column cards, they were all serial based. Only useful under OS-9. It is funny how many places you wil find Motorola's VDG (MC6847). > That and the RF video out only with no built-in composite video output > would have made the CoCo a complete lemon if it weren't for the > brilliance of the users that managed to extend and expand it. And OS-9 > was also a definite plus. I'm curious, what experience have you had with OS-9? -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com "Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 6 16:40:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: FA: Nova 1200, 1210 & 1220 Technical manuals, PCB book, N* book, more Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020906174045.4a67801a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just finished putting some suff on E-bay including Technical Manuals for the Data General Nova 1200, 1210 and 1220, HDOS manual for the North Star hard drive systems, a good book on Magnaflux magentic partical inspection and a GREAT book on printed circuit boards by Clyde Coombs of Hewlett Packard. see Joe From rhb57 at vol.com Fri Sep 6 16:51:01 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <3D790963.6020408@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: They had sound too on the Commode-ores, the Coco's too IIRC. I think they left the serial port off (even on the POS Sanyo MBC-555-2 that I had) to get you for another expnsive add-on after you committed a lot of money for the unit itself. The Sanyo serial port was a crap 8250 UART and it cost nearly $100 for a 3x3 card that screwed to the back, had only a few parts such as a UART and 1488/1489 send/recieve and some resistors, caps and diodes. The Sanyo had a Ctrl key but NO Alt, u nderrated power supply, bitmap (Apple type) video on a supposed IBM compat, and other really pain in the rump problems. Witht he help of a few BBS systems, numerous editions of Soft Sector magazine and newsletters froma few Sanyo user's groups I finally had the machine where I was comfy with it, then dropped it for a clone and a PS/2. A real POS was that chicklet keyboard on the PCjr...after literally hours on end on those crappy keyboards I was so relieved to get off t hat machine to go to an AT with a tactile Alps switch keyboard. I would love to have a bulldozer and run over any more that are in existence (not really but I feel they suck that much). -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Ben Franchuk -> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 3:01 PM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum -> tube -> -> -> Roger Merchberger wrote: -> -> > Define "real" -- Admittedly, the CoCo1's chicklet keyboard sucked -> > bigtime, but The CoCo2/3's keyboard is as good as anything made -> > nowadays... (that's why the newest keyboard I use on any PeeCee is an -> > IBM "klackety" keyboard from '84 or so... and wouldn't mind having an -> > interface for these on my CoCo...) and although they were a little -> > harder to upgrade than today's machines, they were easier to hack & -> > interface to. Sure, they weren't on par to the minis & -> mainframes of the -> > same timeframe, but that's true today; and it was still a very -> capable, -> > affordable & expandable computer in it's own right. -> -> Not really a general purpose computer more like the game console -> box of today. -> The C64/Coco/Apple was the quick and simple computer - 8k rom - 64k D-ram -> and a graphics chip and CPU. It was the cost cutting that got ya -> like none of -> the common 8 bit computers had a serial port. Even the AT was -> too cheap to -> drive the IRQ open collector. -> -> > [whew... just had to get that out of the way; 6809's being my -> favorite & -> > all... ;-) ] -> That was a toss up for me between the 6809 and the PDP-8. -> Needless to say I -> working a 12/24 bit CPU that reminds you of the 6809. -> http://www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html -> -> >> Nobody in the USA made a nice 6809 machine. -> > -> > -> > Huh? That's where I beg to differ with you! I *lusted* over the ads in -> > HotCoCo & Rainbow mags for the Chieftain (methinks... weren't many of -> > those ads), and even more so, the Gimix... The Gimix was one -> *bitchin'* -> > box - ran OS-9 level 2 (wasn't there a level 3 for that?), it -> could take -> > 512K of RAM if you wanted it to, and this was by '83 or '84... -> It truly -> > was a mini, as it was designed to run multiuser apps on multiple -> > terminals with no problem... I dunno if they ever made a video -> card for -> > it.... -> -> I had forgot about them. -> -> > No, it couldn't - it was a flat memory space. However, with the right -> > SAM, bank switching was available & with some "creative memory -> > accounting" it worked quite well, especially with OS-9. -> I suspect one could decode the opcodes since you get instruction fetch -> information with the 6809.. -> -> > That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it... -> > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -> -> Mind you with fast ram now days and programable logic a nice OS-9 -> machine could be built. Finding a fast 6809 chip is the problem. -> Boy I wish OS-9 was open source. -> -> -> From rhb57 at vol.com Fri Sep 6 17:01:01 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think Slashdot did as well but I only heard about it from someone else, never got a chance to look it up myself. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Gene Buckle -> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 11:50 AM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube -> -> -> It's actually a real motherboard. I think hardOCP did a write-up on it. -> -> g. -> -> -> On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: -> -> > You gotta be kidding! It's not even April Fool's Day yet! -> > -> > Joe -> > -> > -> > At 08:14 AM 9/6/02 -0600, you wrote: -> > >Sufficiently retro to be interesting. -> > > -> > >Take a look at -> http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/Pax4b-533tube1.htm. The tube -> > >is used in an onboard audio preamp. -> > > -> > > -> > -> > -> > -> From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Sep 6 17:06:25 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube References: Message-ID: <3D792850.3090806@charter.net> I have one on oder from my AOpen Center. I'll let you know how it works in a couple of weeks. James Russ Blakeman wrote: >I have a feeling that we are regressing into progression - having to use old >but terrific technology to be able to make things better again. I had to >actually search around to be sure it was even part of AOpen's site - and now >that I see it's true I have to wonder where the heater current is going to >come from (unless the big fat cap does that) and how much this is going to >cost (I think I'm lusting towards one, just to say I have a tube computer >that's brand new). I think the covers over the chips must be the shields but >you'd think that one tube shield around the tube would work better, unless >they wanted the tube cooled well. > >-> -----Original Message----- >-> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >-> Behalf Of Ben Franchuk >-> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:20 AM >-> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >-> Subject: Re: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube >-> >-> >-> Joe wrote: >-> > You gotta be kidding! It's not even April Fool's Day yet! >-> >>Take a look at >-> http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/Pax4b-533tube1.htm. The tube >-> >>is used in an onboard audio preamp. >-> >-> I hope that is well sheilded. I bet that uses less power >-> and runs cooler than the CPU. :) Once you have tried tube >-> audio with high quality parts you never want to go back >-> to cheap audio stuff again. >-> >-> > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Sep 6 17:08:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020906162230.023dde88@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Huh? The CoCo had a standard RS-232 port, with the exception of the control > lines. AND connector It was SERIAL, and it was close enough to RS-232 for most COMMON uses. But it was NOT RS-232 EXCEPT,... Somebody challenged Radio Shack about calling their serial port "RS-232". The Radio Shack answer was, "Of course it is really RS-232. The RS in RS-232 stands for "Radio Shack", so we can make any changes that we want in the standard." From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Sep 6 17:38:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <3D790963.6020408@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3D78C703.227D0D5@ccp.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020906134502.00a700f8@mail.30below.com> <3D790963.6020408@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <4540.4.20.168.135.1031351928.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ben Franchuk wrote: > Finding a fast 6809 chip is the problem. Will 40 MHz suit you? http://www.inicore.com/core_lib/inicpu.htm > Boy I wish OS-9 was open source. I wish all my wishes were that easily and quickly granted! http://sourceforge.net/projects/cocoos9/ From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Sep 6 17:44:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <1180775276-31717787@watermarkpress.com> References: <1180775276-31717787@watermarkpress.com> Message-ID: <1094.4.20.168.135.1031352288.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "tim lindner" wrote (regarding the Radio Shack Color Computer and Color Computer 2): > What really sucked was the 32 column screen. I never bought one of the > many 80 column cards, they were all serial based. Only useful under > OS-9. "Serial based"? The one I bought, the PBJ Word-Pak (sp?) didn't have anything to do with serial. It had a 6845 (or maybe a 68045 or 6545, I don't recall exactly) right on the bus. They may have had some hack to use it from BASIC, but I only ran OS-9 anyhow. From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Sep 6 17:56:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: Duplicating non-standard software media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906184312.04061288@mail.njd.concentric.com> I want to back up some 5.25" Xerox ViewPoint installation diskettes, but I don't have a working D-series system. Does anyone have a pointer as to the best way to make this happen? I thought I remembered a utility out there that did diskette bit-copies. Even better, if I could find a utility to read the diskette and store it to some sort of image file that I could burn onto CD, I could restore the software to diskette later. I have a Victor 9000 system in the computer barn with a 5.25" drive. I believe it's in running condition, though I haven't fired it up since I got it. IIRC, it runs some early version of MS-DOS or possibly CP/M. Then again, I think the Victor did some weird stuff with the diskette drive speed to increase the amount of data it could write to a diskette. Hmm, I'm sure I can track down a box with a pair of 5.25" drives. Any suggestions? -- Tony From a.krennmair at aon.at Fri Sep 6 18:00:03 2002 From: a.krennmair at aon.at (Andreas Krennmair) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: PDP-8 "Introduction to Programming" In-Reply-To: <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> References: <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> Message-ID: <20020906225953.GA726@aon.at> Just in case someone's interested: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp8/IntroToProgramming1969.pdf I read about it in alt.sys.pdp8. Regards, Andreas Krennmair -- Wie, ESR war in Deutschland und ist _nicht_ wegen Verbrechen gegen die Menschlichkeit (fetchmail, das python-basierte linux-built-system, ...) angeklagt und lebensl?nglich interniert worden!? Schei?e!1!! -- Felix von Leitner in dasr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020906/10611d7c/attachment.bin From red at bears.org Fri Sep 6 18:00:15 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: visiting NY next week? Message-ID: Howdy. I'm going to be in Poughkeepsie, NY, next week for an IBM z/VM class. I think it'd be nice to meet up with a couple of folks from the list, and maybe try to arrange to do something besides sit alone in my hotel room and read trashy novels. (: I'm due to arrive late Monday night, and I'm leaving early Thursday evening. Drop me a line and let me know what you think. ok r. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Sep 6 18:10:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: Duplicating non-standard software media In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906184312.04061288@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Tony Eros wrote: > I want to back up some 5.25" Xerox ViewPoint installation diskettes, but I > don't have a working D-series system. Does anyone have a pointer as to the > best way to make this happen? I thought I remembered a utility out there > that did diskette bit-copies. Even better, if I could find a utility to > read the diskette and store it to some sort of image file that I could burn > onto CD, I could restore the software to diskette later. What do you know about the disk format? FM v MFM? Bytes per sector? Sectors per track? IFF it is MFM, then is is POSSIBLE to duplicate it using a PC plus appropriate software. Otherwise it will require significant hardware, such as Central point option board, Catweasel, etc. > I have a Victor 9000 system in the computer barn with a 5.25" drive. I > believe it's in running condition, though I haven't fired it up since I got > it. IIRC, it runs some early version of MS-DOS or possibly CP/M. Then > again, I think the Victor did some weird stuff with the diskette drive > speed to increase the amount of data it could write to a diskette. also GCR and 96 TPI If you want to try to copy Victor diskettes on a PC, FERGET IT! If you want to copy Victor 9000 diskettes, do it on a Victor. NOTHING ELSE. There was one being offered on this list yesterday, by Gordon Zaft? > Hmm, I'm sure I can track down a box with a pair of 5.25" drives. for what? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 6 18:18:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT -- more housecleaning -- Victor computer In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020905170237.0337f490@pop.azstarnet.com> from "Gordon C. Zaft" at Sep 5, 2 05:04:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2022 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020906/8b7581bc/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Sep 6 18:24:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: Duplicating non-standard software media In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906184312.04061288@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906184312.04061288@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <1304.4.20.168.135.1031354666.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I want to back up some 5.25" Xerox ViewPoint installation diskettes, > but I don't have a working D-series system. Does anyone have a > pointer as to the best way to make this happen? I thought I > remembered a utility out there that did diskette bit-copies. Even > better, if I could find a utility to read the diskette and store it to > some sort of image file that I could burn onto CD, I could restore the > software to diskette later. You need to make sure your PC can read single-density (FM) format, because cylinder 0 head 0 is in that format. I wrote a Linux program to dump images of Xerox 6085 diskettes. It's pretty crude, but I could send it to you if it's of use. I've been working on a better Linux program to dump diskette images in .dmk format. So far I've only tested that program with 8-inch disks, but it should handle 5.25 and 3.5 as well. When it's a bit further along it will appear on SourceForge as part of the dmklib project. From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Sep 6 18:44:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: Duplicating non-standard software media In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906184312.04061288@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906194210.04121500@mail.njd.concentric.com> At 04:10 PM 9/6/2002 -0700, you wrote: >On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Tony Eros wrote: > > I want to back up some 5.25" Xerox ViewPoint installation diskettes, but I > > don't have a working D-series system. Does anyone have a pointer as to > the > > best way to make this happen? I thought I remembered a utility out there > > that did diskette bit-copies. Even better, if I could find a utility to > > read the diskette and store it to some sort of image file that I could > burn > > onto CD, I could restore the software to diskette later. > >What do you know about the disk format? FM v MFM? Bytes per >sector? Sectors per track? > >IFF it is MFM, then is is POSSIBLE to duplicate it using a PC plus >appropriate software. Otherwise it will require significant hardware, >such as Central point option board, Catweasel, etc. > > > > I have a Victor 9000 system in the computer barn with a 5.25" drive. I > > believe it's in running condition, though I haven't fired it up since I > got > > it. IIRC, it runs some early version of MS-DOS or possibly CP/M. Then > > again, I think the Victor did some weird stuff with the diskette drive > > speed to increase the amount of data it could write to a diskette. >also GCR and 96 TPI > >If you want to try to copy Victor diskettes on a PC, FERGET IT! >If you want to copy Victor 9000 diskettes, do it on a Victor. NOTHING >ELSE. That's what I recalled -- I guess I was thinking out loud about using the Victor. >There was one being offered on this list yesterday, by Gordon Zaft? > > > Hmm, I'm sure I can track down a box with a pair of 5.25" drives. >for what? For copying the ViewPoint diskettes. At minimum, I need a system with a 5.25 floppy drive, otherwise I can't read the diskettes. Maybe I could use my Hyperion? -- Tony From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Sep 6 18:48:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: MasPar, anyone? In-Reply-To: <1304.4.20.168.135.1031354666.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906184312.04061288@mail.njd.concentric.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020906184312.04061288@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906194446.027b2688@mail.njd.concentric.com> I have a MasPar box sitting in a friend's garage outside of Atlanta. No documentation, console or software media. Does anyone have anything cool they'd like to trade for it? -- Tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 6 19:31:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: Paper tape reader/punch restoration In-Reply-To: <3D788DFD.12275361@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Sep 6, 2 12:14:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2141 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020906/2dbdbeb5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 6 19:32:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Sep 6, 2 06:02:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 915 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020906/43037794/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 6 19:32:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum In-Reply-To: <1180775276-31717787@watermarkpress.com> from "tim lindner" at Sep 6, 2 02:18:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 623 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020906/0ae45de4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 6 19:32:22 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <3D78C703.227D0D5@ccp.com> from "Gary Hildebrand" at Sep 6, 2 10:17:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 331 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020906/413862db/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 6 19:32:28 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:11 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020906162230.023dde88@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Sep 6, 2 04:30:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1220 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020906/d4478638/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 6 19:32:33 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Duplicating non-standard software media In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906184312.04061288@mail.njd.concentric.com> from "Tony Eros" at Sep 6, 2 06:56:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1498 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020906/10aa7c34/attachment.ksh From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Sep 6 19:39:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: MasPar, anyone? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906194446.027b2688@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: I've got a CD that is supposedly software for a DECstation 5000 console. Let me know if you want it. -- Pat On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Tony Eros wrote: > I have a MasPar box sitting in a friend's garage outside of Atlanta. No > documentation, console or software media. > > Does anyone have anything cool they'd like to trade for it? > > -- Tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 6 19:52:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Duplicating non-standard software media In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906184312.04061288@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020906205219.50cf0a7c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:56 PM 9/6/02 -0400, you wrote: >I want to back up some 5.25" Xerox ViewPoint installation diskettes, but I >don't have a working D-series system. Does anyone have a pointer as to the >best way to make this happen? I thought I remembered a utility out there >that did diskette bit-copies. You might be thinking of the Copy II PC card. It did an exact bit for bit copy of anything that the drive was capable of accessing but it didn't read files. It only read bit streams. You could even duplicate Apple disks on a PC with it but you couldn't "read" the files. Joe From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 6 20:41:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <1180775276-31717787@watermarkpress.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, tim lindner wrote: > > On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > >> Define "real" -- Admittedly, the CoCo1's chicklet keyboard sucked bigtime, > >> but The CoCo2/3's keyboard is as good as anything made nowadays... (that's > > > > With one glaring exception: NO CONTROL KEY. > > > > What computer comes without a CONTROL key? > > Sellam's been dying to bring that up. Did you notice that "Control" key on > that CoCo 3 of yours? But I'm talking about the Coco1 and Coco2. It's amazing that they gained enough of a following to merit the CoCo3, which finally did some things right. > Anyway I think most CoCo 1-2 terminal emulators use the Break key as a > control key. Not very slick, but it worked. Eh. > What really sucked was the 32 column screen. I never bought one of the many > 80 column cards, they were all serial based. Only useful under OS-9. I thought that went without mentioning :) > I'm curious, what experience have you had with OS-9? None (but I've heard enough good things about it to trust that it was way cool :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 6 20:44:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Sanyo had a Ctrl key but NO Alt, u nderrated power supply, bitmap (Apple > type) video on a supposed IBM compat, and other really pain in the rump So this has always intrigued me about the Sanyo. Are you saying that the graphics screen on the MBC-55x was mapped in an interlaced fashion? Did it have the same addressing? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Sep 6 21:31:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Duplicating non-standard software media In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020906205219.50cf0a7c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906184312.04061288@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906223000.04105ef8@mail.njd.concentric.com> At 08:52 PM 9/6/2002 +0000, you wrote: >At 06:56 PM 9/6/02 -0400, you wrote: > >I want to back up some 5.25" Xerox ViewPoint installation diskettes, but I > >don't have a working D-series system. Does anyone have a pointer as to the > >best way to make this happen? I thought I remembered a utility out there > >that did diskette bit-copies. > > You might be thinking of the Copy II PC card. It did an exact bit for > bit copy of anything that the drive was capable of accessing but it > didn't read files. It only read bit streams. You could even duplicate > Apple disks on a PC with it but you couldn't "read" the files. That sounds like it could do the trick. Anybody have one they'd be willing to lend? -- Tony > Joe From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Sep 6 21:42:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF In-Reply-To: <20020906225953.GA726@aon.at> References: <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906223942.040f25c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Does someone know of a low-cost solution for scanning documents to PDF format? I'd like to start scanning some docs with my handy sheet-fed flatbed scanner (HP G85), but what's the best way to get a stack of pages into a single document? Please forgive me if there's a really simple solution to this staring me in the face, but I haven't found it yet. -- Tony From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Sep 6 22:32:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube References: <3D78C703.227D0D5@ccp.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020906134502.00a700f8@mail.30below.com> <3D790963.6020408@jetnet.ab.ca> <4540.4.20.168.135.1031351928.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D79727C.7080900@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Smith wrote: >>Boy I wish OS-9 was open source. > > > I wish all my wishes were that easily and quickly granted! > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/cocoos9/ > The link does not work for me. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Sep 6 22:35:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube References: <1180775276-31717787@watermarkpress.com> <1094.4.20.168.135.1031352288.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D79730E.5070701@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Smith wrote: > "tim lindner" wrote (regarding the Radio Shack > Color Computer and Color Computer 2): > >>What really sucked was the 32 column screen. I never bought one of the >>many 80 column cards, they were all serial based. Only useful under >>OS-9. > > > "Serial based"? The one I bought, the PBJ Word-Pak (sp?) didn't have > anything to do with serial. It had a 6845 (or maybe a 68045 or 6545, > I don't recall exactly) right on the bus. > > They may have had some hack to use it from BASIC, but I only ran OS-9 > anyhow. The Coco had real crappy I/O hardware. This made it imposible to have a clean version of OS-9 with interupt driven hardware. From rhb57 at vol.com Fri Sep 6 22:38:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <3D79727C.7080900@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Works OK here. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Ben Franchuk -> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:29 PM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum -> tube -> -> -> Eric Smith wrote: -> >>Boy I wish OS-9 was open source. -> > -> > -> > I wish all my wishes were that easily and quickly granted! -> > -> > http://sourceforge.net/projects/cocoos9/ -> > -> The link does not work for me. -> -> From rhb57 at vol.com Fri Sep 6 22:54:01 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As far as I recollect it was the same scheme as the apple graphics. IBM software worked ok as long as it wasn't made as direct hardware addressing of the IBM video. The "upgrade" video card with RAM add-on gave the MBC-5xx sereis actual hardware CGA for a mere $275 (what a deal huh, and that was with bare DRAM sockets) -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Sellam Ismail -> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:45 PM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: CoCo's *are* real... (was: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum -> tube -> -> -> On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: -> -> > Sanyo had a Ctrl key but NO Alt, u nderrated power supply, -> bitmap (Apple -> > type) video on a supposed IBM compat, and other really pain in the rump -> -> So this has always intrigued me about the Sanyo. Are you saying that the -> graphics screen on the MBC-55x was mapped in an interlaced fashion? Did -> it have the same addressing? -> -> Sellam Ismail Vintage -> Computer Festival -> ----------------------------------------------------------------- -> ------------- -> International Man of Intrigue and Danger -> http://www.vintage.org -> -> * Old computing resources for business and academia at -> www.VintageTech.com * -> From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Sep 6 23:10:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: References: <3D78C703.227D0D5@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020907043037.GB30554@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Sat, Sep 07, 2002 at 12:53:44AM +0100: > > I saw the article in Poptronics. Instead of looking for CMOS raam, can > > you see the owner of that board looking for a 12AT7 at the local Radio > > Shack??? > > I'll bet that in, say, 5 years time you'll still be able to get 12AT7s > (what's that? ECC82?) but you'll not be able to find any of the ASICs on > that motherboard! I'll bet that as well. Most modern equipment is apparently designed to transmogrify into useless rubbish in only a few years time; hence, we're seeing steady decreases in product quality in most electronic equipment, if one considers product quality to include repairability and the ability to obtain necesary parts for repairs in a few to 40 or more years. Once someone purchases electronic equipment, one should be able to continue using it for as long as one wants, and be able to repair it whenever necessary... of course, that should also apply to most things, such as refridgerators, cars, washing machines, furnaces, radios, televisions, etc. Is not obsolescence is a concept which needs to become obsolete? I propose that we form a Society for the Obsolecence of Obsolescence, and I jest not. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Sep 6 23:47:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: HP 16C? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anyone know where I could find an HP 16C calculator in good condition? I'd prefer to work a trade for one. Most of what I have to offer in trade is newer (off-topic) stuff. Some modernish (but nice) PC equipment and other things like 4GB SCSI-2 drives--on genuine SGI Indigo2 drive sleds if you like. I'm in Southern California. Anyone interested in discussing trade options can e-mail me off list. Thanks. -brian. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Sep 7 01:18:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906223942.040f25c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Tony Eros wrote: > Does someone know of a low-cost solution for scanning documents to PDF > format? I'd like to start scanning some docs with my handy sheet-fed > flatbed scanner (HP G85), but what's the best way to get a stack of pages > into a single document? What platform? If it's Linux or a Unix that prints to PostScript and supports ghostview, you can print your scans to a file (mumble.ps), and use the oh-so-originally-named ps2pdf to convert. ps2pdf uses ghostview to do the translation. Doc From msspcva at yahoo.com Sat Sep 7 02:35:00 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Wanted In-Reply-To: <11d.16578655.2aa6560b@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020907073501.88915.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> FWIW: Did you try Newman Computer Group (www.newman.com) or possibly Gemini Digital (www.geminidigital.com)? E.L.I. inc (www.eli.com) also seems to carry some old DEC stuff... Good luck! -- Frank --- MSHLI@aol.com wrote: > We would like to locate some Matrox QG-640 graphics > boards for Qbus. These > were manufactured in the 80's. > > Is there still an appropriate bulletin board where > this want could be posted? > > Thank you, > > Neil Rubenstein > > Neil Rubenstein, Pres. > N&R Scientific Co., Inc. > 201 592 1864 > 201 592 7027-fax > mshli@aol.com ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Sep 7 04:40:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube" (Sep 7, 0:53) References: Message-ID: <10209071037.ZM24702@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 7, 0:53, Tony Duell wrote: > I'll bet that in, say, 5 years time you'll still be able to get 12AT7s > (what's that? ECC82?) Roughly. My Mullard 1977 Data Book lists as equivalents 12AT7 ECC81 12AU7 ECC82 12AX7 ECC83 12AZ7 ECC81 but I notice that my 1976 book lists ECC81 as obsolescent! You can still get them, though. That's a long obsolescence period! There's not much difference, actually; ECC81/82/83 are the same except for gm, mu, -Vg and Ia: gm mu -Vg Ia ECC81 5.5mA/V 60 2V 10mA ECC82 2.2mA/V 17 8.5V 10.5mA ECC83 1.6mA/V 90 2V 1.25mA And I found the 12AT7 data elsewhere: 12AT7 5.5mA/V 55 2V 10mA The small difference in mu between 12AT7 and ECC81 might just be the result of minor differences in measurement techniques or manufacturer quality; I read something that suggests the ECC81/82/83 were designed as exact replacements for the 12A?7 series. All data refer to 250V anode voltage. Those dual triodes are/were often underrun at 150-200V, and obviously the gain and currents etc change if you do that. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tony.eros at machm.org Sat Sep 7 05:58:01 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906223942.040f25c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020907065645.040ce438@mail.njd.concentric.com> The platform is Windows (he said sheepishly). I think ghostview runs under Windows, but I'll have to take a look around for ps2pdf. Thanks! -- Tony At 01:18 AM 9/7/2002 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Tony Eros wrote: > > > Does someone know of a low-cost solution for scanning documents to PDF > > format? I'd like to start scanning some docs with my handy sheet-fed > > flatbed scanner (HP G85), but what's the best way to get a stack of pages > > into a single document? > > What platform? If it's Linux or a Unix that prints to PostScript and >supports ghostview, you can print your scans to a file (mumble.ps), and >use the oh-so-originally-named ps2pdf to convert. ps2pdf uses ghostview >to do the translation. > > Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Sep 7 06:11:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020907065645.040ce438@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Tony Eros wrote: > The platform is Windows (he said sheepishly). I think ghostview runs under > Windows, but I'll have to take a look around for ps2pdf. The trick in Windows is going to be printing to a PostScript file. Doc From hansp at aconit.org Sat Sep 7 06:40:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF References: Message-ID: <3D79E5A1.6090703@aconit.org> Doc Shipley wrote: > On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Tony Eros wrote: >>The platform is Windows (he said sheepishly). I think ghostview runs under >>Windows, but I'll have to take a look around for ps2pdf. > The trick in Windows is going to be printing to a PostScript file. Why? Just install a HP laserjet PS driver and have te output sent to a file. All standard options. -- hbp From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 7 07:33:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906223942.040f25c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <20020906225953.GA726@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020907082330.4d77a222@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I don't think you can scan them directly into a PDF format. AFIK PDF is propriatary to Adobe and I think you have to have their software to convert your image files to PDF. Their software also probably combines the individula files into one PDF file. Again this shows up on E-bay occasionally so you might look there and see what's available and/or check Adobe's website. Joe At 10:42 PM 9/6/02 -0400, you wrote: >Does someone know of a low-cost solution for scanning documents to PDF >format? I'd like to start scanning some docs with my handy sheet-fed >flatbed scanner (HP G85), but what's the best way to get a stack of pages >into a single document? > >Please forgive me if there's a really simple solution to this staring me in >the face, but I haven't found it yet. > >-- Tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 7 07:33:34 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: HP 16C? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020907082613.4d776cde@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The only place that you're likely to find a 16C is on E-bay unless you're offering an EXTREMELY interesting trade. The 16Cs are like gold and have been for several years. Joe At 09:47 PM 9/6/02 -0700, you wrote: >Does anyone know where I could find an HP 16C calculator in good >condition? I'd prefer to work a trade for one. Most of what I have to >offer in trade is newer (off-topic) stuff. Some modernish (but nice) >PC equipment and other things like 4GB SCSI-2 drives--on genuine SGI >Indigo2 drive sleds if you like. I'm in Southern California. > >Anyone interested in discussing trade options can e-mail me off list. >Thanks. > >-brian. > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 7 07:33:40 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Duplicating non-standard software media In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906223000.04105ef8@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020906205219.50cf0a7c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020906184312.04061288@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020907082000.4d774bd2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:30 PM 9/6/02 -0400, you wrote: >At 08:52 PM 9/6/2002 +0000, you wrote: >>At 06:56 PM 9/6/02 -0400, you wrote: >> >I want to back up some 5.25" Xerox ViewPoint installation diskettes, but I >> >don't have a working D-series system. Does anyone have a pointer as to the >> >best way to make this happen? I thought I remembered a utility out there >> >that did diskette bit-copies. >> >> You might be thinking of the Copy II PC card. It did an exact bit for >> bit copy of anything that the drive was capable of accessing but it >> didn't read files. It only read bit streams. You could even duplicate >> Apple disks on a PC with it but you couldn't "read" the files. > >That sounds like it could do the trick. Anybody have one they'd be willing >to lend? > >-- Tony Someone said that the disk are GRC format. I don't know if the Copy II card will work with that or not but I suppose it's worth a try. The cards show up on E-bay occasionally. You might find one there. Someone on this list has (had?) the drivers posted a while back. Joe From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Sat Sep 7 07:57:00 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF References: <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> <5.0.2.1.0.20020906223942.040f25c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <3D79F7B0.2FDC9894@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Tony Eros wrote: > > Does someone know of a low-cost solution for scanning documents to > PDF format? I'd like to start scanning some docs with my handy > sheet-fed flatbed scanner (HP G85), but what's the best way to get a > stack of pages into a single document? My current route, which is due to David Gesswein (http://pdp8.net/) 1. Scan at 600dpi B/W and save to individual TIFF files. 2. Clean up scans (crop, removing blotches, etc.) This is the time-consuming bit! 3. Combine the TIFFs and convert to Group 4 compression at the same time with tiffcp command from the tools provided with libtiff (http://www.libtiff.org). Binaries are available for Windows as well. 4. PDF supports this format natively, so you just have to run some wrapper software, c42pdf. The website for this is http://c42pdf.ffii.org, but I got my copy from David Gesswein, because I think he has made some mods to it. This program is so fast that David uses it in a CGI script to allow page ranges to be selected from the TIFF file and served up as PDF on the fly. Libtiff and c42pdf are free. I can't imagine why you'd want to go through PS to get to PDF! - Paul From jim at jkearney.com Sat Sep 7 08:06:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF References: <20020906225953.GA726@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> <3.0.6.16.20020907082330.4d77a222@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <011801c2566f$6b867e10$1001090a@xpace.net> >From: "Joe" > I don't think you can scan them directly into a PDF format. AFIK PDF is propriatary to Adobe and I >think you have to have their software to convert your image files to PDF. Their software also There are some other vendors than Adobe's rather expensive Distiller. I use PDF Factory from FinePrint (www.fineprint.com), and a search at download.com shows a number of other tools. I can highly recommend PDF Factory, it's worked flawlessly for me, and the Pro version supports links and bookmarks. Jim From rhb57 at vol.com Sat Sep 7 08:47:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If it's a hollow pot cast metal consider using JB Weld in the hollow underside with a small coat hanmger wire strip (or 2) within it as a brace. It will make the unit less valuable if someone noted the underside repair but if there is no replacement available that's your next best bet since zinc/pot metal can't be brazed or welded. I did an arm from the steam piston to the eccentric wheel on a small German steam engine and it worked great and was hidden so that people didn't see it. When it was assessed I didn't say a thing and the assessor didn't notice it until she started getting to the fine detail as where the JB Weld was I had used brush on silver hammer-finish paint and it blended well enough to cover the remaining JB Weld as to appear at regular glances as the normal diecast. I had it assessed for my uncle, the owner of it then and getting up in his years and not willing to F*** with it but wanted the extra cash to his estate to be put away for burial expenses. The steam engine brought $750 even with the note that it had been repaired. This was more than the assessor had planned but then she didn't take into consideration the crowd at the auction either - Well off Chicago suburban doctors, engineers, etc that wanted it for the novelty rather than the functionlity, though it worked as well as the day it was new and was still in it's original heavy printed cardboard box from pre-WWII 1937 Germany as opposed to W. or E. Germany. My dad had one identical (all the sons got one that year when they were kids) and my brother has it now but has made a nice cherry wood and glass case for it and has put the box away in safe storage. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Tothwolf -> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 11:02 PM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup -> -> -> On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: -> -> > Both my truntables are form Goodwill, one a Harmon Kardon, the other a -> > Pioneer. I'm presently cleaning the Pioneer. The Harmon Kardon is on -> > the closet still. -> -> While searching for info on the Dual 1209 turntable I pulled from the -> dumpster, I found a site called The Turntable Factory -> [http://www.theturntablefactory.com/]. If you need advice or a source for -> parts, it might be worthwhile to email them. I've been chatting with them -> about a tonearm head for the 1209 (its currently broken due to -> the way the -> turntable landed in the dumpster). I'm a little worried about the cost of -> a replacement tonearm head, *if* I'm even able to find one. I may end up -> having to fabricate a replacement myself. The old one is cast pot metal. -> -> -Toth -> From rhb57 at vol.com Sat Sep 7 08:57:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <3D76EBC7.2020806@internet1.net> Message-ID: Ah Mr. Chad you are a genius... -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Chad Fernandez -> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 12:30 AM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup -> -> -> Russ Blakeman wrote: -> > If y ou come across a vendor that also sells new stylus units -> for the tone -> > arms of turntables you might post that too - my long term -> source dried up -> > last year -> -> If you mean non-acoustic, there are several sources. I bought a new -> cartidge and needle for my Pioneer from www.needledoctor.com -> -> Chad Fernandez -> Michigan, USA -> From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sat Sep 7 09:23:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <013901c2567a$2ba61a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> I just can't believe that this is real, even though all the information is integrated into the Aopen website like it is a real product. First off, motherboards don't have built-in amplifiers beyond the normal line-level output. Is that what this tube does, amplifies to line-level? If one wanted tube aplificiation from a regular PC, they could simply hook a tube amp up to the line-level outputs of a regular motherboard. And what about the 5.1 audio? One tube isn't going to handle all those channels, right? If one was going to go to the lengths of having a tube amp, wouldn't they want it for all channels? There's a product UPC code listed. Has anyone tried to order one of these? - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:15 AM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube Sufficiently retro to be interesting. Take a look at http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/Pax4b-533tube1.htm. The tube is used in an onboard audio preamp. From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Sep 7 09:33:05 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube References: <013901c2567a$2ba61a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3D7A0ECA.2010406@charter.net> Bob, it is a real product. I've ordered one from my AOpen Center in Dallas. The wholesale cost is around $220.00 which is about $100 higher than the normal wholesale for a P4 board with similar specs. I ordered it on a lark, as a novelty. When I get it up and running (I don't have any spare P4 chips right now), I'll test it out and post some pic's. James Bob Lafleur wrote: >I just can't believe that this is real, even though all the information >is integrated into the Aopen website like it is a real product. > >First off, motherboards don't have built-in amplifiers beyond the normal >line-level output. Is that what this tube does, amplifies to line-level? >If one wanted tube aplificiation from a regular PC, they could simply >hook a tube amp up to the line-level outputs of a regular motherboard. >And what about the 5.1 audio? One tube isn't going to handle all those >channels, right? If one was going to go to the lengths of having a tube >amp, wouldn't they want it for all channels? > >There's a product UPC code listed. Has anyone tried to order one of >these? > > - Bob > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert >Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:15 AM >To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' >Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube > > >Sufficiently retro to be interesting. > >Take a look at http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/Pax4b-533tube1.htm. The >tube is used in an onboard audio preamp. > > > > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Sep 7 09:42:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF References: Message-ID: <3D7A0F67.6010804@jetnet.ab.ca> Doc Shipley wrote: > On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Tony Eros wrote: > > >>The platform is Windows (he said sheepishly). I think ghostview runs under >>Windows, but I'll have to take a look around for ps2pdf. > > > The trick in Windows is going to be printing to a PostScript file. > > Doc True but easy to do. You add a PS printer and print to that but writing to a file instead. I have ps2pdf but for the life of me I can't remember where I got it. PS2PDF is a command line only program.I also zip my PDF file as it is smaller and my ISP does not permit *.pdf files for some reason. From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Sep 7 10:23:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <013901c2567a$2ba61a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: <013901c2567a$2ba61a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <20020907154434.GC30554@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Bob Lafleur, from writings of Sat, Sep 07, 2002 at 10:23:43AM -0400: > First off, motherboards don't have built-in amplifiers beyond the normal > line-level output. Is that what this tube does, amplifies to line-level? The tube is apparently functioning as a pre-amplifier; even it it's attached to a power amplifier that uses transistors, it can add some of that "tube sound" to the final output. Of course, if they were going for true hi-fi, surely they'd add some extras like a miniature record player designed to play miniature 33 RPM records, read by a laser, instead of CDs. Of course, what's the point when people are going to be listening to streaming audio, and other forms of digitized (low-fi) audio? > If one wanted tube aplificiation from a regular PC, they could simply > hook a tube amp up to the line-level outputs of a regular motherboard. ...and if they want something that emphasizes the tube sound, they could build a TubeHead (from PAIA) pre-amp into a custom PeeCee cabinet, and use the output from some random sound card as the input, and it would probably cost less than purchasing that motherboard. > And what about the 5.1 audio? One tube isn't going to handle all those Not sure what 5.1 audio is, but a single tube could be a dual triode, and hence be used for stereo (is there such a thing as a quad triode?) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Sep 7 10:24:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > The platform is Windows (he said sheepishly). I think ghostview runs under > > Windows, but I'll have to take a look around for ps2pdf. > The trick in Windows is going to be printing to a PostScript file. If you don't mind crappy algorithmically created Postscript, just "install" a Postscript printer. Then "print to file", instead of to the non-existent printer. From fernande at internet1.net Sat Sep 7 10:52:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube References: <013901c2567a$2ba61a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> <20020907154434.GC30554@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3D7A209B.3080709@internet1.net> R. D. Davis wrote: > Not sure what 5.1 audio is, but a single tube could be a dual triode, > and hence be used for stereo (is there such a thing as a quad triode?) Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound Most DVD's are surround sound, and thats what most home theater systems are designed for, although a 7.1 exists as well, as well as alot of other abreviations, initials, etc. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Sep 7 11:01:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: HP 16C? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020907082613.4d776cde@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > The only place that you're likely to find a 16C is on E-bay unless > you're offering an EXTREMELY interesting trade. The 16Cs are like gold > and have been for several years. Yeah, I know. I'm certainly willing to offer equipment which has an eBay value that would match or exceed the eBay value of an HP 16C. The most interesting /on-topic/ items for trade would be NeXTstations. I might be able to swing a loaded SGI Challenge L server if you're local to SoCal. I also have an Amiga 4000T w/mouse and keyboard. I could sell this stuff on eBay and get the money and then turn around and buy an HP 16C on eBay, but I'd rather avoid the pain of that. I'm hoping that just maybe someone here has a spare 16C or two, making it easier for them to part with one. If not, I'll do the auction thing. -brian. From jamesl at bestweb.net Sat Sep 7 12:39:01 2002 From: jamesl at bestweb.net (James E. LaBarre) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906223942.040f25c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020907065645.040ce438@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <3D7A39DE.3040100@bestweb.net> If you're running Windows, you want Cygwin (http://cygwin.com) which is a unix environment foe Windows, GCC, bash shell & everything (even a port of XFree86). It has a port of ps2pdf. Tony Eros wrote: > The platform is Windows (he said sheepishly). I think ghostview runs > under Windows, but I'll have to take a look around for ps2pdf. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Sep 7 13:05:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Digitizing vinyl records. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020907082613.4d776cde@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Here's an interesting application of technology. This fellow claims to have used a flatbed scanner to make images of records and has written some software to decode the music from those images. http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~springer/ Obviously the resulting sound quality is a bit crude, but it's an interesting hack. -brian. From foo at siconic.com Sat Sep 7 15:55:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: It lives! Imlac PDS-1, serial #2 is running again. In-Reply-To: <3D776E2A.8090105@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > I'd be interested to see what these people did to support the Imlac. They mostly hacked around with them. I'll have to check through what I got from them to see what they did. > But if a CP/M cross assembler exists, that would be very interesting. > If it could be run under some CP/M emulation on a PC, that would be > very useful right now. It exists, or at least it did at some point. If I can find the stash I'll let you know what's in it. Unfortunately, I lost the guy's e-mail address. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 7 16:29:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020907212958.88017.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> It's not a general-purpose computer, but it does have two Motorola MC68000 processors in it (main board and sound board) and was built in 1987, so it's on-topic... Went to the USAA arcade auction today... it's free to get in and free to get a bidder number. Just had to pay the fairgrounds $4 to park. Played a lot of pinball for free (gotta investigate the merchandise, naturally ;-) and a few classic video games. I saw stripped cocktail cabinets (no board, monitor or glass) go for nearly $100. I saw some 1950s electo-mechanical games go for under $200. Pac-Man fetched $600 or more. Space Invaders with some plexiglass scratches went for about $200. A video bowling game went for $900! Generally speaking, name-brand games (Defender, Dig-Dug, Frogger and the like) went for $400-$600. They got to the Xenophobe and I walked away with it for $200. Me and one other guy. It went $100-$150-$200 and they couldn't get another bid. Works perfectly. I've seen just the game controllers sell on ePay for $85 each. Now to get it in my house from the porch. I had to disassemble it to get it up the front stairs alone. I have to put the monitor enclosure back on its stalk and put the controls back on the front, plug in a few connectors and I'm back in business. It's no $15 cocktail game, but I've wanted one for years. If only there were some hacks for it. Oh yeah! That's right! It came with full schematics in a pouch in the door. Just need a memory map and I'm hacking away... I can use MAME to test the hacks before burning EPROMs. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sat Sep 7 17:11:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF In-Reply-To: <3D79E5A1.6090703@aconit.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020907180948.0077d650@pop1.epm.net.co> At 01:40 PM 9/7/02 +0200, you wrote: >> The trick in Windows is going to be printing to a PostScript file. > >Why? Just install a HP laserjet PS driver and have te output sent to a >file. All standard options. > > -- hbp No, no standard options (I do this all the time): Click "Print to a file". Then choose Laserjet properties. ( I use the HP Laserjet 4/4M driver). In the postscript tab, choose "ADSC for portability" as opposed to "Optimize for speed", the default. Then, after the postscript file is produced, remove the first few lines until the first line in the document starts with %!PS-Adobe-3.0 Then remove the last few lines until the last line is %%EOF Only then you have a true postscript document. These are easy to convert to pdf using ps2pdf. By the way, this script comes with Ghostscript, not Ghostview; Ghostview is just a graphics front end for Ghostscript. carlos. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Sep 7 17:26:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020907180948.0077d650@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote: > By the way, this script comes with Ghostscript, > not Ghostview; Ghostview is just a graphics > front end for Ghostscript. You're right, of course. Thanks. Doc From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Sep 7 18:36:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: <20020907212958.88017.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >If only there were some hacks for it. Oh yeah! That's right! It >came with full schematics in a pouch in the door. Just need a >memory map and I'm hacking away... I can use MAME to test the hacks >before burning EPROMs. Is it a JAMMA compatable board? If so you might want to look into the Multi-JAMMA adapter that lets you put 6 JAMMA boards in your cabinet. Or is this one of the games that has specialized controls? I think getting into Arcade systems is even more dangerous than getting into Classic Computers. As my wife loves our Neo Geo 4-Slot, so she doesn't object to new games for it (gotta love cartridge based arcade systems). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 7 19:18:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <10209071037.ZM24702@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Sep 7, 2 09:37:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1092 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020907/f33663a8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 7 19:18:28 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <20020907154434.GC30554@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Sep 7, 2 11:44:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1039 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020907/4ff4de22/attachment.ksh From han_hao at 163.net Sat Sep 7 19:38:00 2002 From: han_hao at 163.net (HanHao) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: FOR ST20 compiler Message-ID: <20020908003827.1A8D01CA6BEC2@bjapp1.163.net> hi,all I'm looking for something about ST20's compiler,ST20-SWC, ST20-SWC++ anybody can help me :_) HanHao han_hao@163.net From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Sep 7 20:39:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe References: <20020907212958.88017.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003a01c256d8$a5b4cf10$3c00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 5:29 PM Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe > > It's not a general-purpose computer, but it does have two Motorola > MC68000 processors in it (main board and sound board) and was > built in 1987, so it's on-topic... Cool-- played this on my brothers Nintendo. Rolled the score over once. It wasn't a hard game... > > Went to the USAA arcade auction today... it's free to get in and free > to get a bidder number. Just had to pay the fairgrounds $4 to park. > Played a lot of pinball for free (gotta investigate the merchandise, > naturally ;-) and a few classic video games. Does this thing come around every year? Did I miss it this time? I'm close enough to walk, but IIRC so are you. > -ethan Bob From dbwood at kc.rr.com Sat Sep 7 21:16:00 2002 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube References: <013901c2567a$2ba61a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <004a01c256dd$c7983f40$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> I would guess that it's partly targeted to the "tricked-out" computer case crowd... Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: RE: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube > I just can't believe that this is real, even though all the information > is integrated into the Aopen website like it is a real product. > > First off, motherboards don't have built-in amplifiers beyond the normal > line-level output. Is that what this tube does, amplifies to line-level? > If one wanted tube aplificiation from a regular PC, they could simply > hook a tube amp up to the line-level outputs of a regular motherboard. > And what about the 5.1 audio? One tube isn't going to handle all those > channels, right? If one was going to go to the lengths of having a tube > amp, wouldn't they want it for all channels? > > There's a product UPC code listed. Has anyone tried to order one of > these? > > - Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:15 AM > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube > > > Sufficiently retro to be interesting. > > Take a look at http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/Pax4b-533tube1.htm. The > tube is used in an onboard audio preamp. > > From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Sep 7 21:17:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: References: <20020907154434.GC30554@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20020908023757.GE30554@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 12:25:39AM +0100: > > Not sure what 5.1 audio is, but a single tube could be a dual triode, > > and hence be used for stereo (is there such a thing as a quad triode?) > > It is a dual triode (I am truely suprised you haven't come across this > valve). The European code is ECC81, indicating it has a 6.3V heater ('E'), > it contains 2 triodes ('C' for each of them) and it fits a B9A (noval, 9 > pin miniature) base ('8'). I have come across dual triodes and most likely have a few of them. :-) Not sure what the number for it is, however. > I've never seen a quadruple triode. The most complex common valves in the > UK were double triodes, double diode triodes, triple diode triodes [1]. Ah, yes; somewhere around here I also have some "duo diode hi mu triode" valves/tubes... There seemed to be a lot of interesting valves/tubes used in television sets, with many more elements in them, than those found in radios and stereo equipment. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Sep 7 21:34:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: References: <10209071037.ZM24702@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020908025520.GF30554@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 12:18:39AM +0100: > kind of switching PSU to provide a reasonable anode voltage, though. If > that finds its way onto the bus lines it's going to be spectacular! That reminds me of when I purchased my Tektronix 531 'scope a few years ago, back around 1982. The seller had just "repaired" it, and somehow had the fillaments connected to the B+ supply. One can imagine what things looked like when the scope's B+ relay clicked on; all of the tubes were glowing white for a very brief period of time---the 'scope was shut off rather quickly. I only had to replace one or two tubes, from what I recall. Let's see a PC motherboard, with all of those microscopic components, survive something like that, and be repaired in a very short period of time! That won't happen; hence, one could say that older, and well evolved, technology is superior to newer technology in terms of long-term durability and repairability. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sat Sep 7 21:47:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:12 2005 Subject: Noval 760 on eBay (again) Message-ID: <20020908024738.57682.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2052619348 This is that Noval 760 machine discussed earlier. If I had the room and could move it myself, the buy it now price seems reasonable (for a change!). It actually looks like a nice piece of furniture! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Sep 7 22:53:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <20020908023757.GE30554@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > Ah, yes; somewhere around here I also have some "duo diode hi mu > triode" valves/tubes... There seemed to be a lot of interesting > valves/tubes used in television sets, with many more elements in them, > than those found in radios and stereo equipment. Dou-diode-triodes were standard tubes in radios, actually. I am pretty sure there was a quad triode produced, probably for the organ industry. Quite a few very weird types were used (four plate dual triodes, sextuple diodes, etc) - mostly used for frequency dividers. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Sep 7 23:05:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <20020908025520.GF30554@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > That reminds me of when I purchased my Tektronix 531 'scope a few > years ago, back around 1982. The seller had just "repaired" it, and > somehow had the fillaments connected to the B+ supply. One can > imagine what things looked like when the scope's B+ relay clicked on; > all of the tubes were glowing white for a very brief period of > time---the 'scope was shut off rather quickly. I only had to replace > one or two tubes, from what I recall. One thing is certain, however - you severly damaged every one of those tubes. Whacking the filaments with a huge pulse, even for a very short amount of time, will almost always reduce the emmission of tubes (exceptions being tubes with pure tungsten filaments). If you want, take some junk tubes and zap them on a tube tester - you will see a marked decrease in the emmission. > Let's see a PC motherboard, > with all of those microscopic components, survive something like that, > and be repaired in a very short period of time! That won't happen; > hence, one could say that older, and well evolved, technology is > superior to newer technology in terms of long-term durability and > repairability. Tubes more reliable than transistors/ICs? Wow, that is alternative... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 7 23:36:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020908043631.91849.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >If only there were some hacks for it... > > Is it a JAMMA compatable board? If so you might want to look into the > Multi-JAMMA adapter that lets you put 6 JAMMA boards in your cabinet. Or > is this one of the games that has specialized controls? It is not JAMMA. It has a customized set of controls. > I think getting into Arcade systems is even more dangerous than getting > into Classic Computers. As my wife loves our Neo Geo 4-Slot, so she > doesn't object to new games for it (gotta love cartridge based arcade > systems). I've had a Gorf for years - I put it together with bits from three sources over a 10 year span. It's no bigger than most of my VAXen. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 7 23:42:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: <003a01c256d8$a5b4cf10$3c00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20020908044211.10807.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Robert F. Schaefer" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 5:29 PM > Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe > > > > > It's not a general-purpose computer, but it does have two Motorola > > MC68000 processors in it (main board and sound board) and was > > built in 1987, so it's on-topic... > > Cool-- played this on my brothers Nintendo. Rolled the score over once. > It wasn't a hard game... It's especially not hard when you can keep pumping in more money for more lives. :-) > > Went to the USAA arcade auction today... it's free to get in... > > Does this thing come around every year? Did I miss it this time? Several times a year. The next one is in November. > I'm close enough to walk, but IIRC so are you. Yep. About a mile south of me and 1/2 mile East. I _have_ walked to the State Fair before. But if you walk, how can you get your goodies home? ;-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Sep 8 06:28:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe References: <20020908044211.10807.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001401c2572a$e75b52c0$3c00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 12:42 AM Subject: Re: New aquisition: Xenophobe > > --- "Robert F. Schaefer" wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ethan Dicks" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 5:29 PM > > Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe > > > > > > > > It's not a general-purpose computer, but it does have two Motorola > > > MC68000 processors in it (main board and sound board) and was > > > built in 1987, so it's on-topic... > > > > Cool-- played this on my brothers Nintendo. Rolled the score over once. > > It wasn't a hard game... > > It's especially not hard when you can keep pumping in more money for more > lives. :-) One life. It _really_ wasn't a hard game... > > > > Went to the USAA arcade auction today... it's free to get in... > > > > Does this thing come around every year? Did I miss it this time? > > Several times a year. The next one is in November. Cool. If you think of it, ping me. > > > I'm close enough to walk, but IIRC so are you. > > Yep. About a mile south of me and 1/2 mile East. I _have_ walked > to the State Fair before. > > But if you walk, how can you get your goodies home? ;-) I suppose that might be a problem. 'Course, I have lots of family on call 24/7 if I need anything moved, picked up, delivered, whatever. Being the oldest has it's perks. ^_^ > > -ethan Bob From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Sep 8 09:50:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: <003a01c256d8$a5b4cf10$3c00a8c0@george> Message-ID: I assume that you are talking about the game. The FIRST "Xenophobe" was our compatability testing program. I hadn't really intended to get into testing compatability, but my publisher was trying to negotiate with IBM, and asked me to write a version of XenoCopy that would refuse to run on anything but the IBM PC. I did that by calling the ROM BASIC. Then the scum^H^H^H^H publisher sent THAT version out to reviewers. When PC World used XenoCopy, Lotus?, and Flight Simulator as their method of testing compatability of clones (1/83?), and referred to the 5150 ONLY version of XenoCopy as "the acid test", I wrote and distributed a program called "XenoPhobe : The acid test" that checked clone compatability level. Enforcing a trademark is too much like work. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From tony.eros at machm.org Sun Sep 8 12:27:01 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: HP ET8855 - Logic Analyzer Demonstration System In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020907082330.4d77a222@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906223942.040f25c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> <20020906225953.GA726@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020908131134.02bfde18@mail.njd.concentric.com> I recently picked one of these up. It's a flat panel with a pair of boards, one marked 8080 and the other marked 6800. Both boards have ZIF processor sockets (the one on the 8080 board is empty). There's a set of four seven-segment LEDs on the 6800 board. The panel includes a pair of toggle switches (run/hold below the 8080 board, run/reset below the 6800) There's a bnc plug marked 'logic probe' and a set of switches marked "reset", "cnt up", "cnt dn", "clear" and "stop". Does anyone have any idea what it's for? -- Tony From appleone at mac.com Sun Sep 8 13:33:00 2002 From: appleone at mac.com (Steven Christensen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Cygwin In-Reply-To: <20020908170000.81078.16613.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: If you're running Windows, you want Cygwin (http://cygwin.com) which is a unix environment foe Windows, GCC, bash shell & everything (even a port of XFree86). It has a port of ps2pdf. "Unix environment foe windows"? Boy, what a Freudian slip! And I think Mr. Gates would agree! Steve Christensen From ernestls at attbi.com Sun Sep 8 14:25:00 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Digitizing vinyl records. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Brian Chase > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 11:06 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Digitizing vinyl records. > > > Here's an interesting application of technology. This fellow claims to > have used a flatbed scanner to make images of records and has written > some software to decode the music from those images. > > http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~springer/ > > Obviously the resulting sound quality is a bit crude, but it's an > interesting hack. Crude yes but pretty cool too. It amazes me what some people will do with their spare time. Next thing you know, he'll start trying to fix some broken old computer just because he thought it might be fun. E. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 8 15:04:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <20020908023757.GE30554@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Sep 7, 2 10:37:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1053 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020908/d773b383/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 8 15:05:05 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <20020908025520.GF30554@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Sep 7, 2 10:55:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2719 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020908/c592fa80/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 8 15:12:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: 74H52 chip Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1707 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020908/8d62fb2b/attachment.ksh From jim at jkearney.com Sun Sep 8 15:24:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: 74H52 chip References: Message-ID: <001a01c25775$c4367a90$1301090a@jkearney.com> Tony, Here's a guy not to far away from you that shows 98 in stock: http://alle-ersatzteile.de/ prices seem reasonable for shipping inside Germany, and it says 'International Shipping on request'. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 4:01 PM Subject: 74H52 chip > Last week I mentioned I was repairing an HP9810 programmable calculator. > I've now traced the last fault to the 74H52 AND-OR gate chip on the > memory timing PCB (09810-66522). Needless to say this chip is > unobtainable as far as I can see. > > I've worked out a kuldge using a 74LS51 which works in this circuit (as > only 2 sets of inputs on the 'H52 were used). I'll stick details of that > at the end of this message in case anyone else ever has to do the same > repair (unlikely...). > > But the repair is a kludge, with wires flying everywhere. So does anyone > have/know where to get a 74H52 chip? > > -tony > > ------------------------------- > Replacing the 74H52 IC on the memory timing PCB (09810-66522) > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Well, have you ever tried to get one :-) However, _on this PCB_ it can be > replaced by a 74LS51, suitably wired. > > Remove old IC carefully, in case it's still good. > Bend out all pins of a 74LS51 apart from 1, 7, 14. Put this chip in place > of the old one. Solder 1, 7, 14 to the PCB. Solder wires (wire-wrap wire > is ideal) as follows : > > PCB 2 -> IC 13, IC 12 > PCB 3 -> IC 11 > PCB 4 -> IC 10 > PCB 5 -> IC 9 > IC 8 -> IC 2, IC 3, IC 4, IC 5 > PCB 8 -> IC 6 > > > mu(26)/ -------|\ > | \ +---|\ > ALU(0) ----+---| >-----+ | | >----+ > | | / | +---|/ | > +---|/ | | +---)\ > +---)\ | ) >o---- TRegSin > ) >o---+---|\ +---)/ > mu(25+24/)/----|\ +---)/ | | >----+ > | \ | +---|/ > T(0)-----------| >------+ > | / > mu(26)---------|/ > > > > From voyager at hol.gr Sun Sep 8 15:32:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Digitizing vinyl records. References: Message-ID: <005a01c25776$6f96b3a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> I think that the article is wrong in the consept of modulation. I recall that the stereo is modulated not in depth and with but on each side of the track. So he should be wrong on the demodulation itself, missing the channel splitting. I guess he could hear something like (Left+Right)*cos (x) and not the proper left or right channel. Anyway, I would be glad to send over some old stuff to see what he can do about them ;-) > > Here's an interesting application of technology. This fellow claims to > > have used a flatbed scanner to make images of records and has written > > some software to decode the music from those images. > > > > http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~springer/ > > > > Obviously the resulting sound quality is a bit crude, but it's an > > interesting hack. > > Crude yes but pretty cool too. It amazes me what some people will do with > their spare time. Next thing you know, he'll start trying to fix some broken > old computer just because he thought it might be fun. > > E. > From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Sep 8 15:43:00 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20020908161040.00a131e0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> If any of you list members ( that are also eBay buyers, as many of you are ) feel as we do, that computer components should be shipped in some type of antistatic packaging, you might wish to avoid purchases from ... eBay seller ... davidth dba ... Tec Instruments Inc We purchased a computer card from them that they did not place in an antistatic bag. They just wrapped it in clear bubble wrap, which is not an antistatic material. As most, if not all, of you well know, the pink bubble wrap is the antistatic variety. We just purchased a roll ourselves that cost us less than eight cents per square foot. One square foot ( eight pennies worth ) would have been sufficient to have done a decent job, but that was not done. They also did not realize we had paid them for the part virtually immediately after the auction was over ( IIRC we purchased with the Buy It Now feature ) and SIX WEEKS+ LATER when we still hadn't received it, we had to call and inquire as to it's whereabouts. We felt that a job done that poorly did not deserve a positive comment, so we gave them a neutral comment calling it like it was. This seller sees fit to retaliate against neutral comments and lie in their response. Just a heads up for anyone that would wish their purchases not to be senselessly placed at risk of damage before you have ever even received it. From wonko at 4amlunch.net Sun Sep 8 15:47:00 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Free Stuff for PICKUP ONLY in Collegeville, PA (near philly) Message-ID: <20020908164750.D67800@marvin.4amlunch.net> i have had the pleasure of making a trip with Dave McGuire to rescue some very nice PDP-11/70 boxes. what were not expecting was the volume of stuff that we were presented with. being the people we are, we could not just flat out say no, we had to take it all. it filled a 24' truck. that's a lot of PDP-11/70. in the pile of stuff was a bunch of LA36 and LA120 terminals. only one of the LA36 terminals powers up and DTRT, the rest are assumed to be dead. this is WAY more stuff that i can deal with, so i need these dead terminals (including a dead LA120) as well as the working LA36 and four CRT terminals gone from my house as soon as possible. i am not one to lightly toss things into the skip, but if these are not recovered from my house in a timely manner, i fear i have no choice but to do so. ok, quick run out to the driveway, and here is a list of what is there for the taking: 1 LA120 (assumed broken) 4 LA36 (assumed broken) 1 LA36 (seems to work) 1 Qume QVT-101 CRT terminal (powers up, seems to work) 1 Qume QVT-201 CRT terminal (powers up, seems to work) 1 Qume QVT-202 CRT terminal (powers up, seems to work) MicroTeam FE 4520 CRT terminal (powers up, seems to work) Diablo 620 (untested, has the extra tractor assembly) i think i have the keyboards for all the CRT terminals, but i'd have to check. -brian ps: some pics of the PDP-11 haul, as well as moving my large collection of VAX kit from dave's locker to my garage (stone/dirt floors SUCK) -- she manipulates my language | the scion of a cunning goddess | Fridge and i *am* but a MAN | Magnet watching my gratuitous torment | Poetry not looking herculean | From wonko at 4amlunch.net Sun Sep 8 16:00:01 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Free Stuff for PICKUP ONLY in Collegeville, PA (near philly) In-Reply-To: <20020908164750.D67800@marvin.4amlunch.net>; from wonko@4amlunch.net on Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 04:47:50PM -0400 References: <20020908164750.D67800@marvin.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: <20020908170028.F67800@marvin.4amlunch.net> On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 04:47:50PM -0400, Brian Hechinger wrote: > > ps: some pics of the PDP-11 haul, as well as moving my large collection of VAX > kit from dave's locker to my garage (stone/dirt floors SUCK) i'm some sort of tool and forgot the URL. shame on me. http://www.4amlunch.net/pics/Hell_Trip -brian -- "Fear me, for I am a programmer with a soldering iron. :D" -- Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler -- From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Sep 8 16:40:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: Message-ID: <001b01c2577f$adaaa4e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Tony Duell wrote: >> What really sucked was the 32 column screen. I never bought one of >> the many 80 column cards, they were all serial based. Only useful >> under OS-9. > Eh? The 80 column modules I read about (I never had one) contained a > 6845 CTRC, RAM, and a bit of logic. Nothing to do with a serial port. Just BTW, in case anyone is interested in the "inner workings" of the 6845, DP8350, 8275, 6545 or 5027 CRTCs, I've got a copy of Gerry Kane's "CRT Controller Handbook" here. Anyone got a copy of the book mentioned on the front cover, "An Introduction to Microcomputers: Volume 3 - Some Real Support Devices"? Also, has anyone got a timing diagram of the sync signal a Microvitec Cub 653 (as used with the BBC Micro) requires or a BBC Micro generates? I'm specifically interested in the pulse width of the Hsync and Vsync parts of the Csync signal and the high pulse width (visible area). Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Sep 8 16:45:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Digitizing vinyl records. References: Message-ID: <002901c25780$63b916e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Ernest wrote: > Crude yes but pretty cool too. It amazes me what some people will do > with their spare time. Next thing you know, he'll start trying to fix > some broken old computer just because he thought it might be fun. Or maybe even build one... Just FYI, I've chosen to spend my weekends building a COSMAC Elf. As featured in Popular Electronics magazine. Google for "COSMAC Elf" or beg me to FTP the articles to you. It'll have to wait until my ADSL line gets fixed though. Went down on Friday morning, low chance of repair until Wednesday. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 8 17:03:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) In-Reply-To: <001b01c2577f$adaaa4e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 8, 2 10:35:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 411 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020908/6d2a8aca/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 8 17:07:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: 74H52 chip In-Reply-To: <001a01c25775$c4367a90$1301090a@jkearney.com> from "Jim Kearney" at Sep 8, 2 04:24:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 377 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020908/a9d1a26e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 8 17:10:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20020908161040.00a131e0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> from "Mail List" at Sep 8, 2 04:44:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 697 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020908/7ea86891/attachment.ksh From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Sep 8 17:36:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: Message-ID: <001101c25787$e958af20$0100000a@deepspacenine> Tony Duell wrote: >> Also, has anyone got a timing diagram of the sync signal a >> Microvitec Cub 653 (as used with the BBC Micro) requires or a BBC >> Micro generates? I'm specifically interested in the pulse width of >> the Hsync and Vsync parts of the Csync signal and the high pulse >> width (visible area). > > Would it help if I dug out a BBC micro and clipped a logic analyser > onto the Hsync and Vsync outputs of the 6845? That would be great. Csync and red video would be even better if you can get the Beeb to display either a crosshatched red screen or a solid red screen. Otherwise Hs and Vs would be OK. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Sep 8 17:42:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: HP ET8855 - Logic Analyzer Demonstration System In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020908131134.02bfde18@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020907082330.4d77a222@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020906223942.040f25c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> <20020906225953.GA726@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020908174916.5ac780b8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Tony, I've seen stuff like that for logic analyzers. They're just small scale computers and are used to teach/demonstrate how to use a logic analyzer. I have instructions for one here somewhere (from Gould I think). I don't have the device but the docs show the schematic and contain the listing of the EPROM on it and it's VERY simple. You can make it "run" a short program that's in EPROM and you use that to demonstrate how to setup the LA to trigger when certain data appears and also set to trigger on the Nth appearance of certain data. The EPROM also has some sections with all 0s and alternating 1s and 0s and that's used for some other demo but I don't recall exactly what they were for. The BNC connector on your's is almost certainly to supply 5 VDC for a HP logic probe. HP built all (or some) of their probes to get power from a BNC connector and included the BNC power point on many of their instruments. >"reset", "cnt up", "cnt dn", "clear" and "stop". Sounds like the SW on the board just has a simple counter program. Reset the CPU so that it restarts at address 0. Make it count up or down, clear the counter without resetting and stop the counter. If you don't need it. I'd like to play with it. Joe At 01:27 PM 9/8/02 -0400, you wrote: >I recently picked one of these up. It's a flat panel with a pair of >boards, one marked 8080 and the other marked 6800. Both boards have ZIF >processor sockets (the one on the 8080 board is empty). There's a set of >four seven-segment LEDs on the 6800 board. The panel includes a pair of >toggle switches (run/hold below the 8080 board, run/reset below the >6800) There's a bnc plug marked 'logic probe' and a set of switches marked >"reset", "cnt up", "cnt dn", "clear" and "stop". > >Does anyone have any idea what it's for? > >-- Tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Sep 8 17:42:36 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20020908161040.00a131e0@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020908180658.5a67d8de@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Generally I agree with the comments about the necessity of anti-static packing but otherwise I'm very suspicious of messages like this that are posted without a name and not even a recognizable From address. If the situation is as bad as you describe then why didn't you post negative feedback instead of neutral? Just for those of you that are interested, the buyer's feedback rating is 51 and the seller's feedback rating is 1332! The auction in question appears to be . I think there's more going on here than what this message describes. Joe At 04:44 PM 9/8/02 -0400, you wrote: > > > >If any of you list members ( that are also eBay buyers, as many of you are >) feel >as we do, that computer components should be shipped in some type of antistatic >packaging, you might wish to avoid purchases from ... > > eBay seller ... davidth > > dba ... Tec Instruments Inc > >We purchased a computer card from them that they did not place in an antistatic >bag. They just wrapped it in clear bubble wrap, which is not an antistatic >material. >As most, if not all, of you well know, the pink bubble wrap is the >antistatic variety. >We just purchased a roll ourselves that cost us less than eight cents per >square >foot. One square foot ( eight pennies worth ) would have been sufficient to >have >done a decent job, but that was not done. > >They also did not realize we had paid them for the part virtually >immediately after >the auction was over ( IIRC we purchased with the Buy It Now feature ) and >SIX WEEKS+ LATER when we still hadn't received it, we had to call and inquire >as to it's whereabouts. > >We felt that a job done that poorly did not deserve a positive comment, so we >gave them a neutral comment calling it like it was. This seller sees fit to >retaliate >against neutral comments and lie in their response. > >Just a heads up for anyone that would wish their purchases not to be >senselessly >placed at risk of damage before you have ever even received it. > > > > > > From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Sep 8 17:50:01 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Free books Message-ID: <20020908225224.SHL1776.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> The following lot is available for the cost of postage (or pickup in Orlando, FL). You must take them all. All on topic since they are over ten years old. Please contact me offlist if you're interested. CICS Handbook (Kageyama) Programmer's Survival Guide (Ruhl) 1-2-3 Macro Library, 3rd Edition (Ewing) Paul Mace Guide to Data Recovery (Mace) Practical Image Processing in C (with diskette) (Lindley) Novell Netware Power Tools (with diskette) (Edelhart) Practical Guide to Database Design (Hogan) MVS Performance Management (Samson) Hard Disk Power (with diskette) (Jamsa) CICS for the COBOL Programmer Part 1 (Lowe) CICS for the COBOL Programmer Part 2 (Lowe) All in great shape. If no takers by Friday 9-13-2002 these will become dumpster food as per the Bullshit Reduction Act of 2002. Later -- Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Sep 8 18:07:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <004a01c256dd$c7983f40$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Douglas Wood wrote: > I would guess that it's partly targeted to the "tricked-out" computer case > crowd... D'ya mean like Tony Cole's "ultimate clone"? His machine, with gold plated case ("for RF shielding") made the cover of a bunch of magazines, thereby providing free advertising for his VIPC company far past the cost of building the machine. But that was a long time ago. Now he is more commonly known for his Cray memorabilia. "Tony Cole and the Crays" hmmm. it would be a nice name for a rock band. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 8 18:26:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Sep 8, 2 04:07:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 839 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020908/738790a2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 8 18:32:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) In-Reply-To: <001101c25787$e958af20$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 8, 2 11:34:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1179 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020908/f0c29d30/attachment.ksh From tony.eros at machm.org Sun Sep 8 19:37:01 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: HP ET8855 - Logic Analyzer Demonstration System In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020908174916.5ac780b8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020908131134.02bfde18@mail.njd.concentric.com> <3.0.6.16.20020907082330.4d77a222@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020906223942.040f25c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> <20020906225953.GA726@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020908203312.02bb8ea0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Joe - Ahh, that makes sense -- thanks for the info. It sounds kind of cool, but I don't think I'll have much use for it so it's yours for the cost of shipping if you'd like. I'll box it up and drop you a note with the total. -- Tony At 05:49 PM 9/8/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Tony, > > I've seen stuff like that for logic analyzers. They're just small > scale computers and are used to teach/demonstrate how to use a logic > analyzer. I have instructions for one here somewhere (from Gould I > think). I don't have the device but the docs show the schematic and > contain the listing of the EPROM on it and it's VERY simple. You can > make it "run" a short program that's in EPROM and you use that to > demonstrate how to setup the LA to trigger when certain data appears and > also set to trigger on the Nth appearance of certain data. The EPROM also > has some sections with all 0s and alternating 1s and 0s and that's used > for some other demo but I don't recall exactly what they were for. > > The BNC connector on your's is almost certainly to supply 5 VDC for a > HP logic probe. HP built all (or some) of their probes to get power from > a BNC connector and included the BNC power point on many of their instruments. > > >"reset", "cnt up", "cnt dn", "clear" and "stop". > > Sounds like the SW on the board just has a simple counter > program. Reset the CPU so that it restarts at address 0. Make it count > up or down, clear the counter without resetting and stop the counter. > > If you don't need it. I'd like to play with it. > > > Joe > > >At 01:27 PM 9/8/02 -0400, you wrote: > >I recently picked one of these up. It's a flat panel with a pair of > >boards, one marked 8080 and the other marked 6800. Both boards have ZIF > >processor sockets (the one on the 8080 board is empty). There's a set of > >four seven-segment LEDs on the 6800 board. The panel includes a pair of > >toggle switches (run/hold below the 8080 board, run/reset below the > >6800) There's a bnc plug marked 'logic probe' and a set of switches marked > > > >"reset", "cnt up", "cnt dn", "clear" and "stop". > > > >Does anyone have any idea what it's for? > > > >-- Tony > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Sep 8 21:03:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: HP ET8855 - Logic Analyzer Demonstration System In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020908203312.02bb8ea0@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020908174916.5ac780b8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020908131134.02bfde18@mail.njd.concentric.com> <3.0.6.16.20020907082330.4d77a222@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020906223942.040f25c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> <20020906225953.GA726@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> <20020905164150.GA728@aon.at> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020908220637.108f3f52@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:37 PM 9/8/02 -0400, you wrote: >Joe - > >Ahh, that makes sense -- thanks for the info. It sounds kind of cool, but >I don't think I'll have much use for it so it's yours for the cost of >shipping if you'd like. > >I'll box it up and drop you a note with the total. > >-- Tony OK that sounds good. You have my address. I guess those sort of things aren't much good unless you like to tinker with Logic Analyzers. Joe From msspcva at yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 00:23:01 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: <001401c2572a$e75b52c0$3c00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20020909052334.95930.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> Gentleman! Where are you located? This auction sounds interesting but I suspect you're far from Virginia... I've been thinking about getting one of the old Xenophobe games myself. The arcade game was one of the first cooperative multiplayer games out, so I used to enjoy it (and the first Gauntlet) a lot. I recall the Xenophobe game as also being no pushover, but maybe my inability to pump quarters in held me back from learning the secrets to success. Do you know if there's a copy of the PROMs for download into an arcade simulation program for a PC? -- Frank --- "Robert F. Schaefer" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 12:42 AM > Subject: Re: New aquisition: Xenophobe > > > > > > --- "Robert F. Schaefer" > wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ethan Dicks" > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 5:29 PM > > > Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe > > > > > > > > > > > It's not a general-purpose computer, but it > does have two Motorola > > > > MC68000 processors in it (main board and sound > board) and was > > > > built in 1987, so it's on-topic... > > > > > > Cool-- played this on my brothers Nintendo. > Rolled the score over once. > > > It wasn't a hard game... > > > > It's especially not hard when you can keep pumping > in more money for more > > lives. :-) > > One life. It _really_ wasn't a hard game... > > > > > > > Went to the USAA arcade auction today... it's > free to get in... > > > > > > Does this thing come around every year? Did I > miss it this time? > > > > Several times a year. The next one is in > November. > > Cool. If you think of it, ping me. > > > > > > I'm close enough to walk, but IIRC so are you. > > > > Yep. About a mile south of me and 1/2 mile East. > I _have_ walked > > to the State Fair before. > > > > But if you walk, how can you get your goodies > home? ;-) > > I suppose that might be a problem. 'Course, I have > lots of family on call > 24/7 if I need anything moved, picked up, delivered, > whatever. Being the > oldest has it's perks. ^_^ > > > > > -ethan > > Bob > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 00:47:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: <20020909052334.95930.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020909054732.81933.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > Gentleman! > > Where are you located? This auction sounds > interesting but I suspect you're far from Virginia... Columbus, OH. The next auction here is 9-Nov. The whole schedule (OH, IN, NJ) is at http://www.usamusement.com/calendar.html There are other companies that run on different circuits. I have never looked into the schedules for VA, but I would suspect that you have one or two within a 3 hour drive. I know that people do show up at the USAA auctions from all over the state and beyond. > I've been thinking about getting one of the old > Xenophobe games myself. The arcade game was one of > the first cooperative multiplayer games out, so I used > to enjoy it (and the first Gauntlet) a lot. Yep. Gauntlet is another favorite of mine, but I couldn't afford to get very good at it. I was just amazed at the lack of interest in it. The last time I saw one sell, there were three or four and the first ones went for $300-$400; it was the final one that went cheap. All the really interested parties got theirs early. > I recall the Xenophobe game as also being no pushover, > but maybe my inability to pump quarters in held me > back from learning the secrets to success. I also think it's an easy game to play to completion, presuming that you have an endless supply of quarters. Picking up goodies gets you health; dropping coins in the machine gives you more health (1000 or 2000, depending on the switches). I have beaten it on my Lynx. It _is_ an excellent cooperative game, even on _that_ platform (yes, I have multiple Lynx consoles (3) *and* multiple copies of Xenophobe (2)). Once you get the finger memory to move, pick up stuff, and throw bombs at the "Festers", it's a pushover. The higher levels get a little tricky with fires to put out (you have to switch between weapon and fire extinguisher) and with yawning chasms (switch out jetpacks and weapons), but it's lots and lots of running search sweeps and killing everything that's green. > Do you know if there's a copy of the PROMs for > download into an arcade simulation program for a PC? Such things exist. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Sep 9 01:06:00 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020908180658.5a67d8de@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20020908161040.00a131e0@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20020908223502.00a1a4a0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Joe Rigdon, > I think there's more going on here than what this message describes. You bet. Here's just how small a world it really is ... Just so you know, it's Bennett Paul here in Va. Beach. Incidently, I did go ahead and bid on your National Instruments GPIB-1014DP. I guess when I talked to you on the phone, you thought I was trying to get over on you or something? I'm sorry you thought that. If I hadn't bid, as I felt should have been the case, Mitch would have gotten that part from you for only $86.00 or $87.50 and you would have done worse than my offer to you. As it turned out, against my better judgement, I bid anyway and that's what got you the $111.48 for it. All in the same range of what I pretty much knew it would sell for, and in the range of my offer to you, because I track all this type of gear. You always could have come back with a reasonable counter offer. And if you had been willing to cooperate, I might have been able to get you two to three times as much for it; you just would have to have been willing to be patient and cooperative. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2039825292 http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=2039825292 After that one, we have decided that we will never again compete with Mitch for any your parts. Joe, your overly suspicious nature just makes you too difficult for us to deal with. So now, when you mention your parts for sale to this list, we'll take a look, but we probably won't be buying. I have since now gotten a GPIB-1014 from another member of this list. Dropped over $1,300 on that cc list member which will help him in his business endeavors. Is there more to this than casual inspection shows? You bet. The seller of that DIO-24/PnP responded with a retaliatory comment, to a neutral comment, because I posted that I consider it substandard to ship a bare computer component in nothing but a material that risked damaging it. We really expected that someone that would be in the instrument business would know better than that. Most of the sellers that have made this mistake, at least have shown that they cared and that they would try to do better in the future. I know I should have given him a negative. If I knew ahead of time what his attitude was going to be, I most definitely would have. Too picky? No. The parts we buy must be of a quality to be acceptable to business buyers or you will find we will stop buying from any seller that sells obviously physically damaged trash without truthfully describing it or mishandles our purchases. When I used to sell DEC Qbus components on eBay ( to Zane, Gordon, Clint, Barry, William, Mark, Tim, and others ), I always tried to package their purchases properly. Even a M3104 that I sold to Doug Meade for only ONE DOLLAR, went into an antistatic bag. My patience has worn thin with eBay sellers that charge enough for shipping and handling to do the job properly, then don't. It's not about what they charge. It's about ignorance and incompetence. It's about their risking damage to the thousands of dollars worth of gear we have been buying. In the very recent past these items were shipped to us without being in either an antistatic bag OR antistatic bubble wrap ... National Instruments PC-DIO-24/PNP ISA Card - $24.99 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1750732393 national instruments IEEE 488 interface card - $21.50 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2048704854 Data Translation DT5712 Analog Input Board - $39.17 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2045869397 National Instruments PCI-MXI-2 - $125.00 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2049828950 Motorola MVME 300 VME Module - $39.95 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1756363070 GPIB PCI Card National Instruments NI-488.2 - $150.00 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1749304420 Hmmm ... And Louis Schulman thought GPIB interfaces were worth only about $5 http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-09/0543.html At least Allison knew. http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-09/0552.html Anyway, these items were misrepresented by their seller ... Ziatech ZT8907 STD32 Single Board Computer SB http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2036630347 NATIONAL INSTRUMENTS TERMINAL SCREW BLOCK - $24.95 - item pictured was acceptable, item received had the ends of the socket broken off and the latches missing http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1760911557 And these following items were received DAMAGED due to poor packaging practices ... Dawn VME Supercard i860 vector processor - $76.00 - received DAMAGED due to poor packaging methods - seller has refused/failed to respond to 2 emails concerning this. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2040376918 JORWAY 74A CAMAC TYPE SERIAL CRATE CONTROLLER - $59.95 - received DAMAGED due to poor packaging methods - Frank will probably make good on this, but it causes a senseless loss of time and money http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1758624242 Add it up. It starts to become a fairly significant amount. Tony, with his physics background, is the one most likely to recognize the significance of more of these types of parts than anyone else. There are a lot of you list members that sell on eBay. If you want us ( who are more often than not, the high bidder that will pay you better for your parts than most anyone else out there ) to buy your parts, you must show proper care in their handling and shipping. We will no longer give "Praise" to those that don't. If any of you list members wish to reject our bids which are more often than not the high bid, and even when not, usually helps increase the amount you receive for your parts, feel free to add us to your blocked bidder list. If anyone cares to learn how to properly package items for shipment, review these following links ... http://pages.ebay.com/services/buyandsell/shippingcenter2.html http://www.ups.com/using/services/packaging/guidline.html http://www.fedex.com/us/services/packaging/groundtips.html Best Regards, Bennett Paul dba ... Legacy Solutions International http://www.analog-and-digital-solutions.com/ At 06:06 PM 9/8/02 +0000, you wrote: > Generally I agree with the comments about the necessity of anti-static > packing but otherwise I'm very suspicious of messages like this that are > posted without a name and not even a recognizable From address. > > If the situation is as bad as you describe then why didn't you post > negative feedback instead of neutral? > > Just for those of you that are interested, the buyer's feedback rating > is 51 and the seller's feedback rating is 1332! > > The auction in question appears to be > . > > I think there's more going on here than what this message describes. > > Joe > > > >At 04:44 PM 9/8/02 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > > >If any of you list members ( that are also eBay buyers, as many of you are > >) feel > >as we do, that computer components should be shipped in some type of > antistatic > >packaging, you might wish to avoid purchases from ... > > > > eBay seller ... davidth > > > > dba ... Tec Instruments Inc > > > >We purchased a computer card from them that they did not place in an > antistatic > >bag. They just wrapped it in clear bubble wrap, which is not an antistatic > >material. > >As most, if not all, of you well know, the pink bubble wrap is the > >antistatic variety. > >We just purchased a roll ourselves that cost us less than eight cents per > >square > >foot. One square foot ( eight pennies worth ) would have been sufficient to > >have > >done a decent job, but that was not done. > > > >They also did not realize we had paid them for the part virtually > >immediately after > >the auction was over ( IIRC we purchased with the Buy It Now feature ) and > >SIX WEEKS+ LATER when we still hadn't received it, we had to call and > inquire > >as to it's whereabouts. > > > >We felt that a job done that poorly did not deserve a positive comment, > so we > >gave them a neutral comment calling it like it was. This seller sees fit to > >retaliate > >against neutral comments and lie in their response. > > > >Just a heads up for anyone that would wish their purchases not to be > >senselessly > >placed at risk of damage before you have ever even received it. > > > > > > > > > > > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Sep 9 01:24:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: Message-ID: <002201c257c9$50f260e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Tony Duell wrote: > Csync is a particulary nasty signal to look at on most small logic > analysers because it's got narrow pulses that are quite widely spaced. > I'd rather not use this unless I have to. Fair enough. > What do you need to know? > > Pulse width/frequency of Hsync and Vsync? > Timing between leading edges of Hsync and Vsync? > Timing between Hsync and start of video line? All of those please. > Of course many of those can be controlled by software on the 6845. I > assume you just want the default values for the Beeb. Do you want me > ot use a particular video MDOE? MODE 7 would be OK. I need the timing info to connect a Teletext i/f up to the Cub, so MODE 7 (Teletext emulation) would be the logical choice. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Mon Sep 9 04:34:00 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: <001b01c2577f$adaaa4e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: <3D7C6B1A.8EF3A66C@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Anyone got a copy of the book mentioned on the front cover, "An > Introduction to Microcomputers: Volume 3 - Some Real Support > Devices"? We have a copy of this in the library at work. This is a large collection of datasheets and descriptions, loose leaves in a binder that was obviously meant to be extended over time. I think it is by Gerry Kane and Adam Osborne, but I can get you a full citation and description later. - Paul From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Sep 9 08:21:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: OT: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) Message-ID: Our local Blockbuster Video here in Chicago is rapidly decreasing the number of video cassettes it rents, in favor of DVD's. Soon there won't be any available, except at the public library or specialty rental stores. I guess they are trying to force users to switch to DVD. -----Original Message----- From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org] Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 11:31 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube Once someone purchases electronic equipment, one should be able to continue using it for as long as one wants, and be able to repair it whenever necessary... of course, that should also apply to most things, such as refridgerators, cars, washing machines, furnaces, radios, televisions, etc. Is not obsolescence is a concept which needs to become obsolete? I propose that we form a Society for the Obsolecence of Obsolescence, and I jest not. From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Sep 9 08:40:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "I guess they are trying to force users to switch to DVD." You make it sound like a conspiracy. It's a simple matter of economics. Every time you play a VHS cassette, you degrade it. DVD does not inherently suffer from this, unless you mishandled a DVD. DVDs take less space, in a vertical spine-out display configuration. DVDs do not need to be rewound. DVDs have a better picture. DVDs have better sound. In fact, the *only* disadvantage that DVD has as a medium is that unlike VHS, it's not readily recordable. If I were a video rental store, I'd be dumping miserable VHS cassettes as fast as I could. Let the antique shops rent them. The DVD market now represents a rather large percentage of the rental market, since a reasonable DVD player is as cheap as a mid-range VHS deck. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 09:21 To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: OT: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) Our local Blockbuster Video here in Chicago is rapidly decreasing the number of video cassettes it rents, in favor of DVD's. Soon there won't be any available, except at the public library or specialty rental stores. I guess they are trying to force users to switch to DVD. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Sep 9 08:54:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) Message-ID: > In fact, the *only* disadvantage that DVD has as a medium is that unlike >VHS, it's not readily recordable. If I were a rental shop I'd see this as a bonus too :-) > If I were a video rental store, I'd be dumping miserable VHS cassettes as >fast as I could. Let the antique shops rent them. The DVD market now >represents a rather large percentage of the rental market, since a >reasonable DVD player is as cheap as a mid-range VHS deck. True. The lack of VHS cassettes for rental does not mean that you cannot keep playing the ones you have at home however. So I don't see this as making the VCR + tapes obsolete. (In the UK, the VHS=>DVD move has not yet happened - there are plenty of people with VCR and no DVD player). If I were so inclined, I suspect that I could stock up on enough spare VCRs and tapes to last me as long as I am likely to watch them. Antonio From msell at ontimesupport.com Mon Sep 9 09:03:00 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: References: <20020907212958.88017.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020909090035.034e5e68@127.0.0.1> I wouldn't say it's dangerous, but it certainly gets interesting trying to get VAXen and arcade games to co-exist inside the house. : ) Power issues and space.... It would be interesting to find just how many of us cross over from classic computers into arcade games. After all, arcade games are single-purpose computers anyways...... - Matt At 04:36 PM 9/7/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >If only there were some hacks for it. Oh yeah! That's right! It > >came with full schematics in a pouch in the door. Just need a > >memory map and I'm hacking away... I can use MAME to test the hacks > >before burning EPROMs. > >Is it a JAMMA compatable board? If so you might want to look into the >Multi-JAMMA adapter that lets you put 6 JAMMA boards in your cabinet. Or >is this one of the games that has specialized controls? > >I think getting into Arcade systems is even more dangerous than getting >into Classic Computers. As my wife loves our Neo Geo 4-Slot, so she >doesn't object to new games for it (gotta love cartridge based arcade >systems). > > Zane >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/d1b5a513/attachment.html From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Sep 9 09:05:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) Message-ID: Yes, but go to a Best Buy or similar store, and you can still buy a VCR. What gets my attention is the speed with which the newer medium/technology is being pushed. It took a lot longer for CD's to replace LP's, and as another recent thread mentioned, you can still buy LP's and turntables. What I object to is being "forced" to switch, to have to buy new hardware when what I have is still functional and functioning. We can keep our old computers running, and functional, with old programs, or even newly written programs for the old platforms. I still use NewWord (copyright 1986) on my 1994-vintage HP 200LX palmtop that I carry with me every day. I guess if I purchesed prerecorded videocassettes like I purchased my old software, I could keep playing them. In software, if I rented (annually licensed) my software, it could be cut off at any time, like WordPerfect was for certain Data Generals,IIRC, or like MS would prefer. Enough rambling, though. -----Original Message----- From: J.C. Wren [mailto:jcwren@jcwren.com] Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 8:41 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) "I guess they are trying to force users to switch to DVD." You make it sound like a conspiracy. It's a simple matter of economics. Every time you play a VHS cassette, you degrade it. DVD does not inherently suffer from this, unless you mishandled a DVD. DVDs take less space, in a vertical spine-out display configuration. DVDs do not need to be rewound. DVDs have a better picture. DVDs have better sound. In fact, the *only* disadvantage that DVD has as a medium is that unlike VHS, it's not readily recordable. If I were a video rental store, I'd be dumping miserable VHS cassettes as fast as I could. Let the antique shops rent them. The DVD market now represents a rather large percentage of the rental market, since a reasonable DVD player is as cheap as a mid-range VHS deck. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 09:21 To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: OT: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) Our local Blockbuster Video here in Chicago is rapidly decreasing the number of video cassettes it rents, in favor of DVD's. Soon there won't be any available, except at the public library or specialty rental stores. I guess they are trying to force users to switch to DVD. From jamesl at bestweb.net Mon Sep 9 09:20:01 2002 From: jamesl at bestweb.net (James E. LaBarre) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:13 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) References: Message-ID: <3D7CAE26.60703@bestweb.net> J.C. Wren wrote: > "I guess they are trying to force users to switch to DVD." > > You make it sound like a conspiracy. It's a simple matter of economics. > Every time you play a VHS cassette, you degrade it. DVD does not inherently > suffer from this, unless you mishandled a DVD. DVDs take less space, in a > vertical spine-out display configuration. DVDs do not need to be rewound. > DVDs have a better picture. DVDs have better sound. > > In fact, the *only* disadvantage that DVD has as a medium is that unlike > VHS, it's not readily recordable. > > If I were a video rental store, I'd be dumping miserable VHS cassettes as > fast as I could. Let the antique shops rent them. The DVD market now > represents a rather large percentage of the rental market, since a > reasonable DVD player is as cheap as a mid-range VHS deck. My dislike of DVDs has been more political than technical. I do not like the heacy handed way the MPAA has been using DVDs (and it's brain-dead encryption) as a weapon to take away the rights of a consumer to use a product *which they purchased with their own hard-earned money* on whatever system they desire. A problem with off-shore bootlegging of disks should not be used as an excuse to screw the consumer. Posessing a decoder not "authorized" by the MPAA so that you can watch your *own property* on some OS which the MPAA & friends felt was beneath their dignity to port to should /not/ be a crime. The only reason I even have a DVD player is because we were given one for Christmas. I certainly will not be going hog-wild buying DVDs for home. The RIAA are pulling the same sort of crap too. All that legislation they're trying to get passed not only screws the ordinary consumer simply trying to make optimum use of the MPAA's overpriced product, but is an effort to subsidize themselves and drive the independent labels & artists out of business at the same time. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Sep 9 09:45:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: VT220 Message-ID: <3D7CB40F.253478A3@compsys.to> I remember that there was a VT220 available here recently, is it still available? Mine is just too burned at this point. Please reply directly. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Sep 9 10:07:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote: > What I object to is being "forced" to switch, to have to buy new hardware > when what I have is still functional and functioning. We can keep our old I gotta say that "functional" is a relative term here. I won't argue that "the producers" are pushing HARD for an inherently copy-unfriendly format. However, if DVD weren't so very much easier to use, store, ship, maintain, and produce -- let alone harder to ruin -- users, vendors and rental shops would not be flocking to DVD. VHS cassettes & players have always been a big, huge, clunky, temperamental-and-easily- borked, slow-to-set-up PITA. DVD are none of those things. Notice that nowhere did I mention video quality. Napster proved conclusively that nobody cares. ;) Seriously. Superior video is not driving the market at all. Doc From gcroasdill at enlighten.com Mon Sep 9 10:12:00 2002 From: gcroasdill at enlighten.com (Greg Croasdill) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: VMS Conquest. Message-ID: Just saw you posting about conquest. This was an old favorite of mine. I Googled it this morning because an old college chum and I were reminiscing last night. You might want to check out www.radscan.com/conquest.html Looks like ConQuest was ported to linux, and this site has a telnet service where you can go play (just like the good old days). Not quite the same as a VT100 hooked to a VAX750, but, fills the bill ;-) Take Care! GregC /-----------------------------------\ + Greg Croasdill + gcroasdill@enlighten.com \-----------------------------------/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/06c7d218/attachment.html From seweryni at grs.nasdsl.com Mon Sep 9 10:12:23 2002 From: seweryni at grs.nasdsl.com (George Seweryniak) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: HP 4972A LAN Protocol Analyser Message-ID: <000601c2551a$32ebcca0$0300a8c0@er.doe.gov> Do you still have a manual for this equipment and software? George -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/c710946a/attachment.html From aek at spies.com Mon Sep 9 10:12:46 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Old Computers - Xerox Message-ID: <200209052238.g85McXJP011465@spies.com> here's an exchange I already had with them: From: "Kathy Marsh" To: "Al Kossow" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by spies.com id g7KCZnVt000585 X-SpamBouncer: 1.6 beta (7/05/02) X-SBClass: OK X-Folder: Bulk Status: RO Good morning, Al! I apologize for the delay in responding to this. I work 8 am to 3 pm, EST, Mon-Fri, so I had already left yesterday when you sent this. We are located in Erie, PA. I have some links with photos of the items. We are asking $999.00 plus shipping for everything or $950.00 plus shipping for the computer system and software (no printer). From aek at spies.com Mon Sep 9 10:13:18 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: PDP-8 "Introduction to Programming" Message-ID: <200209052213.g85MD19r009110@spies.com> I've had a copy sitting next to the scanner for a while now. I'll see about getting it pdf'ed and up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/dec/pdp8 From detyreed at frontiernet.net Mon Sep 9 10:13:40 2002 From: detyreed at frontiernet.net (Bob & Denise Jasinski) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Latest find: Victor Comptometer, model 12E.523.157.C need power cord Message-ID: <3D77FB64.F8D38C27@frontiernet.net> Do you have a picture of this machine? I may have found a machine with the same problem, or any info? Thank you Bob Jasinski From vance at neurotica.com Mon Sep 9 10:14:03 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > >> > cdnow.com... Lots of hip-hop and techno is released this way. Some DJs > >> > prefer to use vinyl, because it sounds better, and (IMHO) is just more fun > >> > to handle than these little optical digital pieces of trash :). I've > >> > purchased a fair amount of vinyl (modern) music from cdnow. > >> > >> there DJ needles don't ruin records as fast as what an audiophile would use. > > > >DJ needles ruin records *much* faster then audiophile needles. True > >audiophile tables/tonearms/needles are balanced so they barely touch the > >record. > > A good audiophile causes very little wear to records for a host of reasons; > keeping the record clean, handling it very carefully, and using a well > setup cartridge that is clean, aligned, and doesn't mistrack. The tip shape > is also important, as the contact points in the groove wall are often > different from common needles, so wear from a common needle is less of a > problem. Indeed, I didn't mean to imply that the needle is the only reason for wear in a non-audiophile setting. > Without being too snooty, most people have no clue how nice a LP can sound > when using the best equipment to play it back. Often very close to a good > cd. It can sound even a good deal better than a CD. I have a sizeable collection of original-edition press-condition classical music (as well as a table and electronics to match) and I can tell you that a lot of the recordings have string-bass parts that extend well below 20Hz. > Also an audiophile needle is NOT designed for cuing, ie being run backwards > in the groove, and would likely break VERY soon. Some but not all > audiophile cartridges are fairly delicate. One of my friends had a Signet > that used a hollow tube of saphire for the cantilever (thing the diamond is > mounted on directly). Agreed. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Mon Sep 9 10:14:30 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: OT: dumpster dive and water/mold cleanup In-Reply-To: <4396.4.20.168.164.1031261140.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > Without being too snooty, most people have no clue how nice a LP can > > sound when using the best equipment to play it back. Often very close > > to a good cd. > > That doesn't sound snooty at all. The snooty audiophiles claim that > even poorly master LPs sound better than well-mastered CDs. I disagree with that statement as well, but I would go as far as to say that a perfectly mastered record sounds better than a perfectly mastered CD, if both are played back on capable equipment. Peace... Sridhar From foo at vintage.org Mon Sep 9 10:15:00 2002 From: foo at vintage.org (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Otrona Attache boards on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > Yea, I'm curious about that too, and waiting a reply. I did > Buy-It-Now. Either he re-listed it by accident or he has multiple similar lots. Looking at his item history shows that J.C. did in fact Buy One Then. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From atredo at nitram.com Mon Sep 9 10:15:23 2002 From: atredo at nitram.com (Andrew Tredo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: HP BASIC Message-ID: <23005FF585063F4282CD4F54F61760F432BD5A@exchange1.nitram.com> Anyone have an HP Basic Manual ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/21c91724/attachment.html From lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net Mon Sep 9 10:15:50 2002 From: lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net (linc fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Scanning documents to PDF In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020907065645.040ce438@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Tony Eros wrote: > The platform is Windows (he said sheepishly). I think ghostview runs under > Windows, but I'll have to take a look around for ps2pdf. > > Thanks! > > -- Tony That's ok, if it'll run windows it's easy enough to upgrade to Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD/OpenBSD... It'll make your PC run many times better as well :-) -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From RonaJoyner at hotmail.com Mon Sep 9 10:16:14 2002 From: RonaJoyner at hotmail.com (Rona Joyner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: For Sale/Trade at the VCF - plus want list Message-ID: I am looking for either :- - working Sharp PC1500 Pocket Computer with or without printer or - working Sharp PC1500A Pocket Computer with or without printer I live in Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/d35e3684/attachment.html From vance at neurotica.com Mon Sep 9 10:16:36 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube In-Reply-To: <20020907154434.GC30554@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > going for true hi-fi, surely they'd add some extras like a miniature > record player designed to play miniature 33 RPM records, read by a > laser, instead of CDs. Of course, what's the point when people are > going to be listening to streaming audio, and other forms of digitized > (low-fi) audio? *ahem* Not all digitized audio is low-fi. Peace... Sridhar From gmphillips at earthlink.net Mon Sep 9 10:16:58 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs Message-ID: <001d01c257aa$4a89d900$0100a8c0@sys1> I'm looking for a 1974, or 1975 Intel Data Catalog. Will pay $200 for either. Will pay $100 for a scanned copy on CD. Also looking for Intel 1301 ROM. Don't care what's programmed on it. Also looking for Intel C3102, C3104, C3106, or C3107 Static RAMs. Will pay $50 to $200 ea. depending on condition. email me: gmphillips@earthlink.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/d68dc808/attachment.html From Dcsonntag at aol.com Mon Sep 9 10:17:21 2002 From: Dcsonntag at aol.com (Dcsonntag@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: I have a bunch of old data tapes that my father (deceased) wrote on his TI 733 ASR terminal. Any idea how I might go about accessing data on the tapes or transferring to more modern media? Thanks, Dave Sonntag -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/a3aa6271/attachment.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Sep 9 10:21:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > I gotta say that "functional" is a relative term here. I won't argue > that "the producers" are pushing HARD for an inherently copy-unfriendly > format. However, if DVD weren't so very much easier to use, store, > ship, maintain, and produce -- let alone harder to ruin -- users, > vendors and rental shops would not be flocking to DVD. VHS cassettes & > players have always been a big, huge, clunky, temperamental-and-easily- > borked, slow-to-set-up PITA. DVD are none of those things. Gaah! I hereby crown myself King of the Unreadable Paragraph. Doc From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 9 10:22:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20020908223502.00a1a4a0@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020908180658.5a67d8de@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20020908161040.00a131e0@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020909112050.49b74852@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:06 AM 9/9/02 -0400, Bennett Paul wrote: > > >Joe Rigdon, > > > I think there's more going on here than what this message describes. > >You bet. Here's just how small a world it really is ... > > Just so you know, it's Bennett Paul here in Va. Beach. Hi Paul. I knew that id sounded familar but I couldn't place it. why didn't you put your name on the message? Incidently, I did >go ahead and bid on your National Instruments GPIB-1014DP. I guess >when I talked to you on the phone, you thought I was trying to get over >on you or something? I'm sorry you thought that. If I hadn't bid, as I >felt should have been the case, Mitch would have gotten that part from >you for only $86.00 or $87.50 and you would have done worse than my >offer to you. As it turned out, against my better judgement, I bid anyway >and that's what got you the $111.48 for it. All in the same range of what I >pretty much knew it would sell for, and in the range of my offer to you, >because I track all this type of gear. You always could have come back >with a reasonable counter offer. And if you had been willing to cooperate, >I might have been able to get you two to three times as much for it; you >just would have to have been willing to be patient and cooperative. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2039825292 > >http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=2039825292 > > After that one, we have decided that we will never again compete with >Mitch for any your parts. Joe, your overly suspicious nature just makes >you too difficult for us to deal with. So now, when you mention your parts >for sale to this list, we'll take a look, but we probably won't be buying. Juat so the rest of you know what's going on. Paul called me on the phone and wanted to buy a VME GP-IB that I had ALREADY posted on e-bay. He wanted me to cancel the auction and sell it dirctly to him. At that point, two other people had already bid on it so I declined. Not only is outside selling against my user's agreement with E-bay but more importantly it's not fair to the other bidders. Call that suspicious if you like but I'd do the same thing again. >I have >since now gotten a GPIB-1014 from another member of this list. Dropped >over $1,300 on that cc list member which will help him in his business >endeavors. > > Is there more to this than casual inspection shows? You bet. > >The seller of that DIO-24/PnP responded with a retaliatory comment, to a >neutral comment, because I posted that I consider it substandard to ship a >bare computer component in nothing but a material that risked damaging it. >We really expected that someone that would be in the instrument business >would know better than that. Most of the sellers that have made this >mistake, at >least have shown that they cared and that they would try to do better in >the future. That's true. >I know I should have given him a negative. If I knew ahead of time what his >attitude was going to be, I most definitely would have. Too picky? No. No, not "too picky" just a cop-out. If he deserved negative feedback you should have posted negative feedback and not worried about it. I just posted negative feedback on someone for the first time, after I couldn't contact him via e-mail or telephone for over a month. After I posted the feedback he contacted me and told me that his secretary was supposed to have handled the transaction while he was on vacation. It's regretable that she didn't and that he got negative feedback but that's what happens if you leave things up to someone else without checking up on them. The >parts >we buy must be of a quality to be acceptable to business buyers or you will >find we will stop buying from any seller that sells obviously physically >damaged >trash without truthfully describing it or mishandles our purchases. Then maybe you should point that out to the seller before he ships it. I know you shouldn't have to but personally I'd rather be safe than sorry. I frequently get requests for special shipping, packaging, etc and I usually comply with their requests. > >When I used to sell DEC Qbus components on eBay ( to Zane, Gordon, Clint, >Barry, William, Mark, Tim, and others ), I always tried to package their >purchases >properly. Even a M3104 that I sold to Doug Meade for only ONE DOLLAR, went into >an antistatic bag. So do mine. Even my books go out in anti-static bags! I bought a big pile of them and use them for EVERYTHING. > > My patience has worn thin with eBay sellers that charge enough for shipping >and handling to do the job properly, then don't. It's not about what they >charge. I have to agree there. Too many sellers are trying to make a living just on what they charge for "handling". (You'll notice that a lof of commercail companies are doing the exact same thing). If I'm interested in it, I E-mail the seller and ask about that on EVERY auction that has additional charges. And I usually deduct the "handling" cost from what I'm willing to pay for an item. If they charged a "packing" or "handling" fee and the item was damaged due to improper packing I would file a complaint with E-bay (and file negative feedback) if the seller didn't refund my money. >It's about ignorance and incompetence. It's about their risking damage to the >thousands of dollars worth of gear we have been buying. > > In the very recent past these items were shipped to us without being in >either >an antistatic bag OR antistatic bubble wrap ... > >National Instruments PC-DIO-24/PNP ISA Card - $24.99 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1750732393 > >national instruments IEEE 488 interface card - $21.50 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2048704854 > >Data Translation DT5712 Analog Input Board - $39.17 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2045869397 > >National Instruments PCI-MXI-2 - $125.00 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2049828950 > >Motorola MVME 300 VME Module - $39.95 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1756363070 > >GPIB PCI Card National Instruments NI-488.2 - $150.00 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1749304420 > > I must say, you seem having a lot more trouble with it than I do. I seldom have that problem and I've had leterally thousands of items sent to me. The items that I recieve damaged are usually do to gross mishandling by the shipping company and have nothing to do with how it was packing. >Hmmm ... > > And Louis Schulman thought GPIB interfaces were worth only about $5 > http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-09/0543.html Naw, they're worth at least $14. > > At least Allison knew. > http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-09/0552.html > > >Anyway, these items were misrepresented by their seller ... > >Ziatech ZT8907 STD32 Single Board Computer SB > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2036630347 > >NATIONAL INSTRUMENTS TERMINAL SCREW BLOCK - $24.95 - item pictured > was acceptable, item received had the ends of the socket broken off >and the > latches missing > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1760911557 That looks like a pretty simple and compact item. How did they manage to pack it so that it was damaged, put a stamp on it and send it bare? It looks like even a simple box would have protected it (not that that's what I'm recommending). Why didn't you post negative or even neutral feedback? > > > And these following items were received DAMAGED due to poor packaging >practices ... > >Dawn VME Supercard i860 vector processor - $76.00 - received DAMAGED > due to poor packaging methods - seller has refused/failed to respond to > 2 emails concerning this. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2040376918 Then why didn't you post negative or neutral feedback? I checked all the way back to June but didn't find it if you did. This and the one above are the only two that I checked and I didn't see any feedback on either one. Joe > >JORWAY 74A CAMAC TYPE SERIAL CRATE CONTROLLER - $59.95 - > received DAMAGED due to poor packaging methods - Frank will probably > make good on this, but it causes a senseless loss of time and money > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1758624242 > > >Add it up. It starts to become a fairly significant amount. Tony, with his >physics >background, is the one most likely to recognize the significance of more of >these >types of parts than anyone else. > >There are a lot of you list members that sell on eBay. If you want us ( who are >more often than not, the high bidder that will pay you better for your >parts than >most anyone else out there ) to buy your parts, you must show proper care in >their handling and shipping. We will no longer give "Praise" to those that >don't. > >If any of you list members wish to reject our bids which are more often >than not >the high bid, and even when not, usually helps increase the amount you receive >for your parts, feel free to add us to your blocked bidder list. > > >If anyone cares to learn how to properly package items for shipment, review >these following links ... > >http://pages.ebay.com/services/buyandsell/shippingcenter2.html > >http://www.ups.com/using/services/packaging/guidline.html > >http://www.fedex.com/us/services/packaging/groundtips.html > > > >Best Regards, > >Bennett Paul > >dba ... Legacy Solutions International > >http://www.analog-and-digital-solutions.com/ > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Sep 9 10:22:29 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: VT220 References: <3D7CB40F.253478A3@compsys.to> Message-ID: <009d01c25814$aae26870$11010240@oemcomputer> I will be picking up several of them from a list member on Tuesday, let me know how close you are to Houston Texas? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome H. Fine" To: Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 9:45 AM Subject: VT220 > I remember that there was a VT220 available here recently, is > it still available? Mine is just too burned at this point. > > Please reply directly. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 9 10:23:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: OT: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020909112345.49b74d4c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I was in a BlockBuster here two nights ago and was surprised to find that at leat 80% of the VCR tapes have been replaced by DVDs. I guess DVDs don't wear out and they take up less space, That equals higher profit for BlockBuster. Joe At 07:21 AM 9/9/02 -0600, you wrote: >Our local Blockbuster Video here in Chicago is rapidly decreasing the number >of video cassettes it rents, in favor of DVD's. Soon there won't be any >available, except at the public library or specialty rental stores. I guess >they are trying to force users to switch to DVD. > >-----Original Message----- From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Sep 9 10:33:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Otrona Attache boards on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's all different lots, but reusing the same listing data. He's got a literal ton of Otrona gear. He bought their inventory when Otrona tanked. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 05:04 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Otrona Attache boards on eBay On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > Yea, I'm curious about that too, and waiting a reply. I did > Buy-It-Now. Either he re-listed it by accident or he has multiple similar lots. Looking at his item history shows that J.C. did in fact Buy One Then. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mythtech at mac.com Mon Sep 9 10:38:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Free Stuff for PICKUP ONLY in Collegeville, PA (near philly) Message-ID: >1 Qume QVT-101 CRT terminal (powers up, seems to work) >1 Qume QVT-201 CRT terminal (powers up, seems to work) >1 Qume QVT-202 CRT terminal (powers up, seems to work) I'm in need of a Qume QVT-108, are any of those 3 compatible? (although, even if so terminal wise, I'm not 100% sure I could use them, as I have to swap in a special RS-422 card from my dead 108). My brother in law lives in the Philly area, so I'm sure I could talk him into picking one up if it would be useable in place of a 108. -chris From jamesl at bestweb.net Mon Sep 9 10:54:00 2002 From: jamesl at bestweb.net (James E. LaBarre) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs References: <001d01c257aa$4a89d900$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <3D7CC431.1020505@bestweb.net> Love that username . I've often used that for nosy registration/survey forms (with an email address of jgalt@taggarttranscon.com). John Galt wrote: > I'm looking for a 1974, or 1975 Intel Data Catalog. Will pay $200 for > either. > > Will pay $100 for a scanned copy on CD. > > Also looking for Intel 1301 ROM. Don't care what's programmed on > it. Also looking for Intel C3102, C3104, C3106, or C3107 Static RAMs. > Will pay $50 to $200 ea. depending on condition. > > email me: gmphillips@earthlink.net > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Sep 9 11:06:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Gaming machines Was Re: New aquisition: Xenophobe References: <20020907212958.88017.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020909090035.034e5e68@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <00d901c2581a$db1f97f0$11010240@oemcomputer> I just added the gaming machines to the collection as the prices fall on them and they started showing up at some thrifts here. It's really hard to get the older computers anymore either because of price (thousands) or they do not show up around here like they used to. ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Sell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 9:03 AM Subject: Re: New aquisition: Xenophobe I wouldn't say it's dangerous, but it certainly gets interesting trying to get VAXen and arcade games to co-exist inside the house. : ) Power issues and space.... It would be interesting to find just how many of us cross over from classic computers into arcade games. After all, arcade games are single-purpose computers anyways...... - Matt At 04:36 PM 9/7/2002 -0700, you wrote: >If only there were some hacks for it. Oh yeah! That's right! It >came with full schematics in a pouch in the door. Just need a >memory map and I'm hacking away... I can use MAME to test the hacks >before burning EPROMs. Is it a JAMMA compatable board? If so you might want to look into the Multi-JAMMA adapter that lets you put 6 JAMMA boards in your cabinet. Or is this one of the games that has specialized controls? I think getting into Arcade systems is even more dangerous than getting into Classic Computers. As my wife loves our Neo Geo 4-Slot, so she doesn't object to new games for it (gotta love cartridge based arcade systems). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/06eae482/attachment.html From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Mon Sep 9 11:51:00 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: <001b01c2577f$adaaa4e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: <3D7CD18F.5B4F4C98@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Just BTW, in case anyone is interested in the "inner workings" of > the 6845, DP8350, 8275, 6545 or 5027 CRTCs, I've got a copy of Gerry > Kane's "CRT Controller Handbook" here. Anyone got a copy of the book > mentioned on the front cover, "An Introduction to Microcomputers: > Volume 3 - Some Real Support Devices"? By Jerry [sic] Kane with Adam Osborne. Published by Osborne Associates, September 1978. ISBN 0-931988-18-7 Inside the cover it says "Have you ordered your Volume 3 update subscription? New material will be published in six bimonthly updates, September 1978 - September 1979". Hmm ... it appears that we didn't buy the subscription! The sections are supposed to be as follows. The copy in front of me only has the sections marked with an asterisk. *A - Memory Devices *B - Parallel I/O Devices *C - Serial I/O Devices D - Telecommunication Devices E - Data Converter Devices *F - CPU Single-Function Support Devices *G - Multifunction Support Devices H - Peripheral Controllers I - Display Devices *J - Bus Standards Section 8 is missing, so no CRT Controllers in this copy. Volume 1 - Some Real Microprocessors, contains details of: TMS1000, Mostek 3870 (and Fairchild F8), National Semiconductor SC/MP, 8080A, 8085, 8048, Zilog Z80, Motorola MC6800, MOS Technology MCS6500, Signetics 2650A, RCA COSMAC, IM6100, 8X300 (or SMS300), Nat. Semi. PACE and INS8900, General Instrument CP1600, General Instrument 1650 Series, Texas Instruments TMS 9900, TMS 9980 and TMS 9940, Single Chip Nova Minicomputer CPU, Intel 8086, 2900 Series and 6700 Series Chip Slice Products, MC10800 Series Chip Slice Logic, and Hewlett Packard MC2. - Paul From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Sep 9 11:54:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020909090035.034e5e68@127.0.0.1> References: <20020907212958.88017.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >I wouldn't say it's dangerous, but it certainly gets interesting trying to >>get VAXen and arcade games to co-exist inside the house. > >: ) > > >Power issues and space.... I don't know, the BA213 (VAX 3400?) with a PDP-8/e on top make an excellent place to sit the dish full of quarters for our Neo Geo. >It would be interesting to find just how many of us cross over from >classic >computers into arcade games. My guess is just about anyone under the age of 35-45. Of course most people here are probably using MAME, rather than having their own Arcade cabinets. It's intesting, but neither my wife or I were that big of video game fans prior to getting married. After getting married we've found that it's turned into a common hobby. We now have most home console systems, and we got the Neo Geo arcade cabinet as it was cheaper than getting the Neo Geo home console and the games we wanted (she's actually the one that found the cabinet for sale locally, on eBay). On the home consoles we seem to tend to prefer the arcade ports and two player games. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Sep 9 12:04:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020909172517.GA35384@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Doc Shipley, from writings of Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 10:07:23AM -0500: > On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote: > vendors and rental shops would not be flocking to DVD. VHS cassettes & > players have always been a big, huge, clunky, temperamental-and-easily- > borked, slow-to-set-up PITA. DVD are none of those things. VCRs and video tapes are tempermental? Until a bad tape recently damaged my VCR (it was a tape from a company selling parts and instructions for laser printer repair), I've never had a single problem with my Zenith 4-head VCR (made by JVC) that I purchased back in 1984. Of course, I've never rented tapes for it, and only used new or blank tapes in it (and only purchased high-quality blank tapes to use). As to DVDs, I can only say "what are those"? I never saw one, and am in no hurry to see, or use, one. Again, they're digital rubbish, whereas VCRs use tapes with nice analog signals recorded on them. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mranalog at attbi.com Mon Sep 9 12:05:01 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: The Financephalograph Message-ID: <3D7CD4A7.E8A638B8@attbi.com> A new link that I placed in my little museum has been generating quite a few enjoyable comments. Financephalograph Bill Phillips is most known for his "Phillips Curve" in Economics. But before the Phillips Curve was invented and while attending London School of Economic, Phillips was having problems understanding the economics lectures. So he sketched out a hydraulic model of the economy, then built the computer that uses water to represent money as it flows through the economy and a pen plotter to display the results. http://www.nzpca.org.nz/megabyte/2001/02/art02.htm One of the (maybe the only) remaining copy of this computer is in the Science Museum in London. If someone gets a chance to stop by and see this computer, I would appreciate a first hand report and maybe,maybe,maybe a picture. Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Sep 9 12:18:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <20020909172517.GA35384@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > As to DVDs, I can only say "what are those"? I never saw one, and am > in no hurry to see, or use, one. Again, they're digital rubbish, > whereas VCRs use tapes with nice analog signals recorded on them. I'm sorry, VHS is the absolute worst format on earth. Worse than anything digital. DVD is sooo much nicer. However, I would agree that 'good' formats like BETA (even BETAmax) Umatic, or even Sony 1" are much better, and probably surpass the quality of a DVD, only because of DVD's lossy MPEG-2 compression. OK, that's enough OT rant for me. -- Pat From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Sep 9 13:05:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) References: Message-ID: <002e01c2582b$439d1040$0100000a@deepspacenine> Feldman, Robert wrote: > I still use > NewWord (copyright 1986) on my 1994-vintage HP 200LX palmtop that I > carry with me every day. Wow - another person with a HP LX-series palmtop. I've got an Omnigo 700LX with the Nokia 2110 mobile to go with it. But that's going way OT for this mailing list (my 700LX carries a manufacture date in 1996). > In software, if I rented (annually licensed) my software, it > could be cut off at any time, like WordPerfect was for certain Data > Generals,IIRC, or like MS would prefer. Anyone know the full story to this? Hmm... Interesting. Now everyone knows why I'm still using Windows 98. I'm also a cheapskate - I won't buy anything unless I have to. Hence why I'm using OpenOffice. I also hate spyware. When I get my Linux box working as a router, I'm going to have a packet tracer running on it. It might be interesting to find out just what is spying on me... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Sep 9 13:12:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) References: <3D7CAE26.60703@bestweb.net> Message-ID: <003601c2582b$f25e4ea0$0100000a@deepspacenine> James E. LaBarre wrote: > Posessing a decoder not "authorized" by the MPAA > so that you can watch your *own property* on some OS which the MPAA & > friends felt was beneath their dignity to port to should /not/ be a > crime. Finally! Someone who shares my opinion :-) I'm not buying a DVDROM for my PC due to region coding - if I want to buy a DVD in the 'States to watch here in the UK, I'll go ahead and do it. > The only reason I even have a DVD player is because we were > given one for Christmas. I certainly will not be going hog-wild > buying DVDs for home. The only reason I'm even thinking of buying a DVD player is the fact that some of them (particularly one made by Mustek) can play CDRs, CDRWs, VideoCDs, Super VideoCDs, etc. Screw DVDs. I'm keeping my Sharp VC-A45HM video recorder and no-one is going to stop me. > The RIAA are pulling the same sort of crap too. All that legislation > they're trying to get passed not only screws the ordinary consumer > simply trying to make optimum use of the MPAA's overpriced product, > but is an effort to subsidize themselves and drive the independent > labels & artists out of business at the same time. My thoughts exactly. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Sep 9 13:19:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) References: Message-ID: <004101c2582d$49d40700$0100000a@deepspacenine> Doc Shipley wrote: > Notice that nowhere did I mention video quality. Napster proved > conclusively that nobody cares. ;) > Seriously. Superior video is not driving the market at all. If digital satellite is anything to go by, Digital=crap, analog=good. IMO, digital video looks blocky and horrible. Needless to say, I hate SkyDigital. If anyone wants the full story, email me off list and I'll tell you my experiences with it. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From dlormand at aztec.asu.edu Mon Sep 9 13:27:00 2002 From: dlormand at aztec.asu.edu (DAVID L. ORMAND) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Free broken laptop Message-ID: <200209091826.LAA11572@aztec2.asu.edu> I got hold of a Compaq LTE Lite/20, which is a '386 monochrome job. It was broke when I got it, and I can't seem to fix it (laptops were never designed to be repaired). If anyone wants it for spare parts or to have their own go at resurrecting it, it's yours for the shipping from Tucson. Cosmetically fine, but the power switch does nothing. Power is working, as the battery charge light comes one. I also have the power pack for it, which is fine. Also works with the other Lite series. I'd like to get $20 for it. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Sep 9 13:33:01 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: The Financephalograph References: <3D7CD4A7.E8A638B8@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3D7CE8B3.CABC558D@gifford.co.uk> Doug Coward wrote: > http://www.nzpca.org.nz/megabyte/2001/02/art02.htm > > One of the (maybe the only) remaining copy of this computer > is in the Science Museum in London. If someone gets a chance > to stop by and see this computer, I would appreciate a first > hand report and maybe,maybe,maybe a picture. I've seen this machine in the Computing gallery of the Science Museum. It's about six feet tall, maybe two or three feet wide and mostly made of perspex (plexiglass) so that the internal flow is visible. It wasn't working at the time, though. Next time I go, I'll get a photo! It's right next to a Classic PDP-8, the Babbage engine, an ICL 1900 and a huge hard disk drive (IBM I think) with hydraulic head actuators. The Science Museum is that kinda place... -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Sep 9 13:37:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: <001b01c2577f$adaaa4e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> <3D7CD18F.5B4F4C98@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: <3D7CE996.7CD6C18A@gifford.co.uk> Paul Williams wrote: > By Jerry [sic] Kane with Adam Osborne. > Published by Osborne Associates, September 1978. ISBN 0-931988-18-7 I already have the CRT controllers book, so this one is now on my list of books to find on AbeBooks.com! Thanks for posting the details. Just recently, I found a 1966/67 edition of The Digital Logic Handbook, which describes all the flip-chip modules of the time. Also shows the PDP-7 and PDP-8. At the same bookshop, I found a copy of the TTL Cookbook, by Don Lancaster and the Scelbi 8080 Software Gourmet Guide. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Sep 9 13:47:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) References: <002e01c2582b$439d1040$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: <3D7CEBF7.2556D7D4@gifford.co.uk> Philip Pemberton wrote: > Feldman, Robert wrote: > > I still use > > NewWord (copyright 1986) on my 1994-vintage HP 200LX palmtop that I > > carry with me every day. > Wow - another person with a HP LX-series palmtop. I've got an Omnigo 700LX > with the Nokia 2110 mobile to go with it. Right in front of me here is an HP 95LX, which I use occasionally for things like capturing GPS serial output. I also have an OmniGo 100 but since it eats AA batteries, I don't use it much. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 9 13:49:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Price of GPIB (was: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20020908223502.00a1a4a0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Mail List wrote: > And Louis Schulman thought GPIB interfaces were worth only about $5 Yeah? So? He is certainly entitled to that opinion. Particularly since he can find them at that price. When I closed out my office, that's more than I got for them. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 9 13:56:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > vendors and rental shops would not be flocking to DVD. VHS cassettes & > players have always been a big, huge, clunky, temperamental-and-easily- > borked, slow-to-set-up PITA. DVD are none of those things. "big, clunky": The size difference is NOT that much. "slow-to-set-up": When used for playing pre-recorded materials, the setup for VCR v DVD is IDENTICAL. All of the differences lie in setup needed for the "extra" features of VCR (signal input, timer, etc.) 'course we've seen that setting the clock of the timer crosses over the threshold of competency of much of the public. > Notice that nowhere did I mention video quality. Napster proved > conclusively that nobody cares. ;) > Seriously. Superior video is not driving the market at all. Very true. But abused DVD produces a better signal than abused VCR, just as abused audio CD produces better sound than abused cassette tape. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Sep 9 14:01:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: HP BASIC In-Reply-To: <23005FF585063F4282CD4F54F61760F432BD5A@exchange1.nitram.com> References: <23005FF585063F4282CD4F54F61760F432BD5A@exchange1.nitram.com> Message-ID: <2859.4.20.168.231.1031598070.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Andrew Tredo" asks: > Anyone have an HP Basic Manual ? For which HP BASIC? There were at least 20 *different* products called HP BASIC, over the last 35 years. The manual for one may not be very much help with another, because some are radially different from others. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 14:07:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020909190754.998.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> Maybe you've never put a SINGLE FINGERPRINT on a DVD. Most players go absolutely wacky. --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > vendors and rental shops would not be flocking to > DVD. VHS cassettes & > > players have always been a big, huge, clunky, > temperamental-and-easily- > > borked, slow-to-set-up PITA. DVD are none of > those things. > > "big, clunky": The size difference is NOT that much. > "slow-to-set-up": When used for playing > pre-recorded materials, the setup > for VCR v DVD is IDENTICAL. All of the differences > lie in setup needed > for the "extra" features of VCR (signal input, > timer, etc.) 'course we've > seen that setting the clock of the timer crosses > over the threshold of > competency of much of the public. > > > Notice that nowhere did I mention video quality. > Napster proved > > conclusively that nobody cares. ;) > > Seriously. Superior video is not driving the > market at all. > > Very true. > > But abused DVD produces a better signal than abused > VCR, just as > abused audio CD produces better sound than abused > cassette tape. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Sep 9 14:20:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > vendors and rental shops would not be flocking to DVD. VHS cassettes & > > players have always been a big, huge, clunky, temperamental-and-easily- > > borked, slow-to-set-up PITA. DVD are none of those things. > > "big, clunky": The size difference is NOT that much. > "slow-to-set-up": When used for playing pre-recorded materials, the setup > for VCR v DVD is IDENTICAL. All of the differences lie in setup needed I wasn't clear. Setup at my house includes skipping trailers and soda ads. Therein lies a huge difference. As for "big, clunky", have you raised toddlers around VCR's & CD players? The relative invitation to insertion of foreign objects is amazing. > But abused DVD produces a better signal than abused VCR, just as > abused audio CD produces better sound than abused cassette tape. Oh, I completely agree. I just meant that it's not germaine to the question of market acceptance. More is the pity. Doc From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Sep 9 14:45:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:14 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) References: Message-ID: <001301c25839$240ff180$0100000a@deepspacenine> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > But abused DVD produces a better signal than abused VCR, just as > abused audio CD produces better sound than abused cassette tape. Anyone here see the "first appearance" of CDs on the British TV show "Tomorrow's World"? "And it even works if I smear strawberry jam all over it"... The guy demoing the CD player smears jam all over the *label* side of the CD, plays it, wipes it clean then plays it again. It would have been far more impressive if he had coated the data side of the CD in jam. I know CDs certainly won't work when there are fingerprints comprised mostly of Nutella (chocolate and hazelnut sandwich spread) all over the playing side. I found that out when my brother pilfered one of my CDs and got Nutella all over it. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Sep 9 15:21:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <3D7CEBF7.2556D7D4@gifford.co.uk> from John Honniball at "Sep 9, 2 07:44:07 pm" Message-ID: <200209092029.NAA26694@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > I still use > > > NewWord (copyright 1986) on my 1994-vintage HP 200LX palmtop that I > > > carry with me every day. > > Wow - another person with a HP LX-series palmtop. I've got an Omnigo 700LX > > with the Nokia 2110 mobile to go with it. > Right in front of me here is an HP 95LX, which I use occasionally > for things like capturing GPS serial output. I also have an > OmniGo 100 but since it eats AA batteries, I don't use it much. I've got two 95LXs. Until I got a Palm m505, a 95LX was my primary PDA, and it still is in use as a mobile serial terminal. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- You're never too old to become younger. -- Mae West ------------------------ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 9 15:22:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <002e01c2582b$439d1040$0100000a@deepspacenine> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020909143829.48a735e6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:03 PM 9/9/02 +0100, Philip wrote: >Feldman, Robert wrote: >> I still use >> NewWord (copyright 1986) on my 1994-vintage HP 200LX palmtop that I >> carry with me every day. >Wow - another person with a HP LX-series palmtop. Are you kidding! I have one that I use frequently and I expect a good number of the people on this list have one. I've tried a bunch of different palmtops including the HP color Jornada (runs Windows CE, yuck!) and I still prefer the 200LX. I've got an Omnigo 700LX >with the Nokia 2110 mobile to go with it. But that's going way OT for this >mailing list (my 700LX carries a manufacture date in 1996). > >> In software, if I rented (annually licensed) my software, it >> could be cut off at any time, like WordPerfect was for certain Data >> Generals,IIRC, or like MS would prefer. >Anyone know the full story to this? Hmm... Interesting. >Now everyone knows why I'm still using Windows 98. I'm also a cheapskate - I >won't buy anything unless I have to. Hence why I'm using OpenOffice. I also >hate spyware. Get a copy of Ad_Aware. It's free and works beautifully. When I get my Linux box working as a router, I'm going to have >a packet tracer running on it. It might be interesting to find out just what >is spying on me... Let us know when you find out. Joe From dan at ekoan.com Mon Sep 9 15:32:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: DEC Logic Handbooks, was Re: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms In-Reply-To: <3D7CE996.7CD6C18A@gifford.co.uk> References: <001b01c2577f$adaaa4e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> <3D7CD18F.5B4F4C98@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020909163233.043253f0@enigma> At 07:33 PM 9/9/02 +0100, you wrote: >Just recently, I found a 1966/67 edition of The Digital Logic Handbook, >which describes all the flip-chip modules of the time. Also shows the >PDP-7 and PDP-8. I've got the Logic Handbooks for 66-67, 1967 (yes, two different books), 1969 and 1970, if anyone needs information from them. The 1970 issue has an interesting section in the back entitled "Interfacing to the PDP-11." I've also got a Digital Control Handbook from 1970, which details the K Series Solid State Control Modules and the various Control and Data Acquisition Systems. It also has two page blurbs and photos in the back for several computer products of the time, including the PDP-8/I and 8/L, the PDP-9 and 9/L, the PDP-10 and the Computer Lab, a DEC-produced digital logic trainer. Speaking of books, at a recent hamfest I picked up a 1986 Inmos databook and a Transputer Reference Manual dated January 1987. Was someone on the list recently looking for either of these titles? Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Sep 9 15:41:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: from Doc Shipley at "Sep 9, 2 10:07:23 am" Message-ID: <200209092049.NAA08690@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I gotta say that "functional" is a relative term here. I won't argue > that "the producers" are pushing HARD for an inherently copy-unfriendly > format. However, if DVD weren't so very much easier to use, store, > ship, maintain, and produce -- let alone harder to ruin -- users, > vendors and rental shops would not be flocking to DVD. VHS cassettes & > players have always been a big, huge, clunky, temperamental-and-easily- > borked, slow-to-set-up PITA. DVD are none of those things. No offense, but bull :-) My personal DVD player story involves the great scourge known as Macrovision. I only own a 20" TV/VCR combination, which means I have no choice but to connect the DVD player effectively "through" the VCR. Thanks to Macrovision, the picture was then unviewable until I got an additional $50 filter device. Moreover, since Macrovision isn't compatible with a non-interlaced signal, this means we get half the output lines we could get if we didn't have to bother with that crap. (See www-cse.stanford.edu/classes/cs201/projects-99-00/dmca-2k/macrovision.html for a great explanation of how Macrovision works/sucks). DVD is nice quality, yes, but the players are finicky, the technical issues are legion, and the only reason I'm slowly converting at all is that my beloved VHS tapes are starting to wear out and some just aren't carried on videotape anymore. People have already discussed the other stuff that burns my cookies like region encoding, so I'll just shut up for now. Anyway, the marketroids behind DRM and likeminded cow patty policy should burn in hell as far as I'm concerned. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- They make a desert and call it peace. -- Tacitus --------------------------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 9 15:57:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <001301c25839$240ff180$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Anyone here see the "first appearance" of CDs on the British TV show > "Tomorrow's World"? "And it even works if I smear strawberry jam all over > it"... The guy demoing the CD player smears jam all over the *label* side of > the CD, plays it, wipes it clean then plays it again. It would have been far > more impressive if he had coated the data side of the CD in jam. I know CDs > certainly won't work when there are fingerprints comprised mostly of Nutella > (chocolate and hazelnut sandwich spread) all over the playing side. I found > that out when my brother pilfered one of my CDs and got Nutella all over it. It is generally a LOT easier to wipe jam, Nutella, etc. off of a CD than it is to disassemble and clean tape. Neither one works well while the jam is on it. From dan at ekoan.com Mon Sep 9 15:57:29 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020909143829.48a735e6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <002e01c2582b$439d1040$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020909164129.03a63ec0@enigma> At 02:38 PM 9/9/02 +0000, Joe Rigdon wrote: >At 07:03 PM 9/9/02 +0100, Philip wrote: > > >Wow - another person with a HP LX-series palmtop. > > Are you kidding! I have one that I use frequently and I expect a good > number of the people on this list have one. I've tried a bunch of > different palmtops including the HP color Jornada (runs Windows CE, > yuck!) and I still prefer the 200LX. Absolutely. I have two of them here, and still use them. The most interesting use so far is in conjunction with a PCMCIA smartcard reader, but they're very handy as a serially-connected computer terminal. I disliked the 320LX and the later Jornadas, both because of Windows CE cruft and because software development suddenly got a lot more difficult than on the 200LX. The 200LX would run (nearly any) straight DOS program and I wrote several utilities using normal development tools, many of which made use of the serial port (the earlier 95LX had a different serial port configuration). Equivalent development on the Jornada series was expensive, time-consuming, and basically wasted effort. It's off-topic, but I've got a 360LX (built 1997) here if anyone is interested in a trade. There is still a thriving 200LX "community" of users. See, for example, http://www.palmtop.net/ and http://www.palmtoppaper.com/ Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Sep 9 16:03:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) References: <3D7CAE26.60703@bestweb.net> <003601c2582b$f25e4ea0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: <3D7D0BC7.3@jetnet.ab.ca> Philip Pemberton wrote: > Finally! Someone who shares my opinion :-) > I'm not buying a DVDROM for my PC due to region coding - if I want to buy a > DVD in the 'States to watch here in the UK, I'll go ahead and do it. Try Here for a multi-region DVD player. http://www.jlist.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 16:04:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020909210409.10436.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I wouldn't say it's dangerous, but it certainly gets interesting trying > to get VAXen and arcade games to co-exist inside the house. > > > >: ) > > > > > >Power issues and space.... A standard arcade machine is rated at 8.0A max @ 110VAC - that runs the board set, the lights and the 19" monitor. > ...most people here are probably using MAME, rather than having their own > Arcade cabinets. I do both. MAME is portable, but MAME on a PeeCee keyboard can't match the feel of real buttons, etc. Yes, people are making their own MAME cabinets (like a buddy of mine down the hall) but you might as well get a real cabinet to start with. The other issue of emulators vs the real thing is odd controllers - spinners come to mind immediately: Tempest, Star Trek and Arkanoid. Xenophobe is another, because of the thumb buttons. I've played it with MAME (and on my Lynx) and it's not the same feel. It's much smoother with the original hardware. > (she's actually the one that found the cabinet for sale locally...) That's the key - not shipping these things across the country. If I didn't have an arcade auction nearby, I probably would consider crafting my own cabinet from scratch as a viable option. After seeing a stripped Galaga Cocktail go for nearly $100, maybe I still will (I have a spare boardset for Gorf - I can use a DEC VR241 as the monitor and have it take up less space). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 16:11:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Latest find: Victor Comptometer, model 12E.523.157.C need power cord In-Reply-To: <3D77FB64.F8D38C27@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <20020909211116.92431.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bob & Denise Jasinski wrote: > Do you have a picture of this machine? I may have found a machine with > the same problem, or any info? Thank you Bob Jasinski No picture yet, but I have no idea what problems there might be with mine besides a missing power cord. I've contemplated rigging something up, but it's been a low priority. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Sep 9 16:23:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: DEC Logic Handbooks, was Re: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms References: <001b01c2577f$adaaa4e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> <3D7CD18F.5B4F4C98@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020909163233.043253f0@enigma> Message-ID: <000701c25847$0e9ce200$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Veeneman" To: Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 4:39 PM Subject: DEC Logic Handbooks, was Re: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms > > I've got the Logic Handbooks for 66-67, 1967 (yes, two different books), > 1969 and 1970, if anyone needs information from them. The 1970 issue > has an interesting section in the back entitled "Interfacing to the PDP-11." > I've got the Logic Handbook from '73 - '74. It has sections labeled: Logic & Control Computer Interfacing Analog Modules Accessory Modules Dec Kits Power Supplies Cabling Hardware Data Entry Terminals Lab Series The "Computer Interfacing" section has a picture at the front of a lady with late 60's or early 70s hair looking at a Teletype printout. Clearly visible in the picture is the frontpanel of a PDP-8/I. From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Mon Sep 9 16:23:31 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs References: <001d01c257aa$4a89d900$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <00ac01c25847$2bec6470$0101a8c0@athlon> Have 1976 if it's of any interest. Dave Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Galt" To: Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 2:40 PM Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs I'm looking for a 1974, or 1975 Intel Data Catalog. Will pay $200 for either. Will pay $100 for a scanned copy on CD. Also looking for Intel 1301 ROM. Don't care what's programmed on it. Also looking for Intel C3102, C3104, C3106, or C3107 Static RAMs. Will pay $50 to $200 ea. depending on condition. email me: gmphillips@earthlink.net From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Sep 9 16:23:38 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) References: <3D7CAE26.60703@bestweb.net> <003601c2582b$f25e4ea0$0100000a@deepspacenine> <3D7D0BC7.3@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <00eb01c25846$f98b34c0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Ben Franchuk wrote: > Try Here for a multi-region DVD player. > http://www.jlist.com/ Hmm. Interesting. I'll keep that URL handy. I did see a Mustek DVD-V520 player being sold by "Diskhouse" (based in Leeds, they've got a small shop on an industrial estate in Armley). I used to get CDRs from them. Until they ditched all the good brands (Verbatim, Taiyo-Yuden etc) in favour of Princo and their own-brand CDRs. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Sep 9 16:38:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe Message-ID: <200209092138.OAA27601@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Ethan Dicks" > > >--- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: >> >I wouldn't say it's dangerous, but it certainly gets interesting trying >> to get VAXen and arcade games to co-exist inside the house. >> > >> >: ) >> > >> > >> >Power issues and space.... > >A standard arcade machine is rated at 8.0A max @ 110VAC - that runs >the board set, the lights and the 19" monitor. > >> ...most people here are probably using MAME, rather than having their own >> Arcade cabinets. > >I do both. MAME is portable, but MAME on a PeeCee keyboard can't match >the feel of real buttons, etc. Yes, people are making their own MAME >cabinets (like a buddy of mine down the hall) but you might as well get >a real cabinet to start with. > >The other issue of emulators vs the real thing is odd controllers - >spinners come to mind immediately: Tempest, Star Trek and Arkanoid. >Xenophobe is another, because of the thumb buttons. I've played it >with MAME (and on my Lynx) and it's not the same feel. It's much >smoother with the original hardware. > > >> (she's actually the one that found the cabinet for sale locally...) > >That's the key - not shipping these things across the country. If >I didn't have an arcade auction nearby, I probably would consider >crafting my own cabinet from scratch as a viable option. After >seeing a stripped Galaga Cocktail go for nearly $100, maybe I still Hi Most empty upright cabinets go for giveaway prices. Cocktail machines are alway a premium, even stripped ones because one can move an upright's inners into one and increase the value. Rather than using MAME, why not just get a complete working vid. Better yet, a real pinball machine :) Dwight >will (I have a spare boardset for Gorf - I can use a DEC VR241 as >the monitor and have it take up less space). > >-ethan > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes >http://finance.yahoo.com > From msell at ontimesupport.com Mon Sep 9 16:39:00 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: <20020909210409.10436.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020909163203.03577638@127.0.0.1> > >Power issues and space.... >A standard arcade machine is rated at 8.0A max @ 110VAC - that runs >the board set, the lights and the 19" monitor. But when you collect video games like I do, and run them during social events (about 6 of 'em at a time), it's as bad as firing up a VAX. Of course, the wiring in my house sucks. The electricians put an average of three rooms on a 15 amp branch. Jerks.... >I do both. MAME is portable, but MAME on a PeeCee keyboard can't match >the feel of real buttons, etc. Yea - no kidding. Try playing Robotron on a PC.... Or Star Wars (using keyboard) >The other issue of emulators vs the real thing is odd controllers - >spinners come to mind immediately: Tempest, Star Trek and Arkanoid. >Xenophobe is another, because of the thumb buttons. I've played it >with MAME (and on my Lynx) and it's not the same feel. It's much >smoother with the original hardware. I also like putting quarters in my machines. It's sort of a savings account for my addiction. >That's the key - not shipping these things across the country. I used to use "Forward Air" and have my games arrive at Houston Intercontinental Airport. From there, I would use a hotshot delivery service to bring them to my house. Shipping to IAH was about $150, and another $25 to have it brought into my garage. Now I just look locally for my stuff. Getting it into the house and past the wife was my task..... (probably the hardest) Recently I grabbed a Centipede for $250. That's a good price (it's in decent condition). Before that was a Missile Command ($650) and a Tempest ($450). On the whole, I find arcade game collecting complementary to my VAX addiction. Both use similar technology (not including mass storage), so the techniques used to fix one can be used with the other. Both devices (VAX and arcade game) are about the same vintage, and use similar components - for the most part. - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/b816b36e/attachment.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 9 16:52:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs In-Reply-To: <00ac01c25847$2bec6470$0101a8c0@athlon> References: <001d01c257aa$4a89d900$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020909175543.0eb7d35a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> 1974 or '75 catalog? I didn't know they printed them that far back. I've seen several 1978 or '79 catalogs but nothing older. Joe At 09:23 AM 9/10/02 +1200, you wrote: >Have 1976 if it's of any interest. >Dave Brown > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Galt" >To: >Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 2:40 PM >Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs > > >I'm looking for a 1974, or 1975 Intel Data Catalog. Will pay $200 for >either. > >Will pay $100 for a scanned copy on CD. > >Also looking for Intel 1301 ROM. Don't care what's programmed on it. Also >looking for Intel C3102, C3104, C3106, or C3107 Static RAMs. Will pay $50 >to $200 ea. depending on condition. > >email me: gmphillips@earthlink.net > > > > > From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Mon Sep 9 16:54:00 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: <001b01c2577f$adaaa4e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> <3D7CD18F.5B4F4C98@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> <3D7CE996.7CD6C18A@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3D7D188E.FD1F7A6@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> John Honniball wrote: > > Paul Williams wrote: > > By Jerry [sic] Kane with Adam Osborne. > > Published by Osborne Associates, September 1978. ISBN 0-931988-18-7 > > I already have the CRT controllers book, so this one is now on my > list of books to find on AbeBooks.com! Thanks for posting the > details. Here is the rest of Adam Osborne's late 70s output in our library: "8089 I/O Processor Handbook: Includes 9289 Bus Arbiter" by Adam Osborne. Pub. by McGraw-Hill, 1978. ISBN 0-931988-39-X. "An Introduction to Microcomputers, Volume 0: The Beginner's Book" by Adam Osborne. Pub. by Osborne & Associates, 1979. ISBN 0-931988-08-X "An Introduction to Microcomputers, Volume 1: Basic Concepts" by Adam Osborne. Pub. by Osborne & Associates, 1979. ISBN 0-931988-02-0 "An Introduction to Microcomputers, Volume 2: Some Real Microprocessors" by Adam Osborne with Jerry Kane. Pub. by Osborne & Associates, 1978. ISBN 0-931988-15-2 "Osborne 4 & 8-Bit Microprocessor Handbook" by Adam Osborne and Gerry Kane. Pub. by McGraw-Hill, 1981. ISBN 0-931988-42-X. The last one is a paperback which I think covers much of the same ground as volumes 2 and 3 of the original series, although it's been a while since I borrowed it. - Paul From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 9 16:58:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <200209092049.NAA08690@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > DVD is nice quality, yes, but the players are finicky, the technical > issues are legion, and the only reason I'm slowly converting at all is > that my beloved VHS tapes are starting to wear out and some just aren't > carried on videotape anymore. Yep, DVD is the best thing for the porn industry since VHS. Now, no matter how many times you watch it (and I'm sure it is a lot) it'll never wear out. (Of course the problem of keeping the discs clean is another issue, but I won't go into that ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Sep 9 17:15:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Sep 9, 2 06:59:24 am" Message-ID: <200209092223.PAA27220@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > DVD is nice quality, yes, but the players are finicky, the technical > > issues are legion, and the only reason I'm slowly converting at all is > > that my beloved VHS tapes are starting to wear out and some just aren't > > carried on videotape anymore. > > Yep, DVD is the best thing for the porn industry since VHS. Now, no > matter how many times you watch it (and I'm sure it is a lot) it'll never > wear out. Dunno, I guess James Bond does count as porn in some countries :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- How are you gentlemen? All your base are belong to us! --------------------- From blstuart at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 9 18:12:00 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:40:34 -0400 . Message-ID: In message , "J.C. Wren" writes : > In fact, the *only* disadvantage that DVD has as a medium is that unlik >e >VHS, it's not readily recordable. I disagree. I personally consider the lack of full disclosure of the format, including CSS to be a disadvantage. In fact, it is so severe a disadvantage that I won't purchase a player or a disk that includes the encryption until the format's backers get out of court and start making useful contributions to society. I realize that doesn't really affect the motivations of a video rental store owner, but it sure means that DVD only stores won't be making any money off of me. (Note that I'm not talking about DVDs used for data storage without the encryption or DVD-Rs (or the slew of incompatible kin), only the encrypted entertainment uses of DVDs.) In a vain effort to keep from straying too far off topic, does anyone backup their classic stuff to DVD? How's the reliability/longevity relative to CD-Rs? Brian L. Stuart From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 9 19:25:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: HP BASIC In-Reply-To: <23005FF585063F4282CD4F54F61760F432BD5A@exchange1.nitram.com> from "Andrew Tredo" at Sep 6, 2 04:21:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 899 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/4e1eeeff/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 9 19:26:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) In-Reply-To: <002201c257c9$50f260e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 9, 2 07:22:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 834 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/350b96d4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 9 19:26:22 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Sep 9, 2 10:07:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 907 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/54eaffbb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 9 19:26:32 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: from "Antonio Carlini" at Sep 9, 2 02:54:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1563 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/9d49905c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 9 19:26:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <3D7CAE26.60703@bestweb.net> from "James E. LaBarre" at Sep 9, 2 10:20:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1615 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/da76315b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 9 19:27:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <002e01c2582b$439d1040$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 9, 2 07:03:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 581 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/0c43705f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 9 19:27:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <004101c2582d$49d40700$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 9, 2 07:18:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1179 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020909/dfc3c7d9/attachment.ksh From wonko at 4amlunch.net Mon Sep 9 20:55:01 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Free Stuff for PICKUP ONLY in Collegeville, PA (near philly) In-Reply-To: ; from mythtech@mac.com on Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 11:38:26AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20020909215548.F75088@marvin.4amlunch.net> > I'm in need of a Qume QVT-108, are any of those 3 compatible? (although, > even if so terminal wise, I'm not 100% sure I could use them, as I have > to swap in a special RS-422 card from my dead 108). i have no idea. i know nothing about these things. > My brother in law lives in the Philly area, so I'm sure I could talk him > into picking one up if it would be useable in place of a 108. find out, he is more than welcome to come take them, since they are small and i know they work, i don't mind hanging on to them for a while. let me know! cheers, -brian -- "Oh, shut up Buddha." -Jesus Christ (South Park) From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Sep 10 00:01:00 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Price of GPIB (was: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20020908223502.00a1a4a0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20020910005502.024b0980@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Yeah? So? Maybe the ones you had were junk. Or maybe you didn't have the ability to properly manage your assets? You did end up going out of business, right? Opinions are like assholes Fred, everybodys got one, and everybody elses stinks but your own. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1759281641 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1758428714 At 11:49 AM 9/9/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Mail List wrote: > > And Louis Schulman thought GPIB interfaces were worth only about $5 > >Yeah? So? >He is certainly entitled to that opinion. Particularly since he can find >them at that price. When I closed out my office, that's more than I got >for them. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Sep 10 00:15:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: Message-ID: <000d01c25888$f0cc1ba0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Tony Duell wrote: >>> Pulse width/frequency of Hsync and Vsync? >>> Timing between leading edges of Hsync and Vsync? >>> Timing between Hsync and start of video line? >> All of those please. > > Any others? Nope. >> the Cub, so MODE 7 (Teletext emulation) would be the logical choice. > > Any reason to believe it won't just plug in? Teletext output is going > to be normal UK frame rates, as is the Beeb. Have you tried it (and > have you tried inverting Csync if you get no picture)? The TTX board doesn't have a sync generator. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From red at bears.org Tue Sep 10 00:37:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <3D7CEBF7.2556D7D4@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, John Honniball wrote: > Right in front of me here is an HP 95LX, which I use occasionally > for things like capturing GPS serial output. I also have an > OmniGo 100 but since it eats AA batteries, I don't use it much. I use my old OmniGo 120 (I used to work for Geoworks) every day and hadn't ever noticed anything particularly appalling about battery life... ok r. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Sep 10 02:19:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: <200209092138.OAA27601@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > From: "Ethan Dicks" > > > > That's the key - not shipping these things across the country. If I > > didn't have an arcade auction nearby, I probably would consider > > crafting my own cabinet from scratch as a viable option. After seeing > > a stripped Galaga Cocktail go for nearly $100, maybe I still > > Most empty upright cabinets go for giveaway prices. Cocktail machines > are alway a premium, even stripped ones because one can move an > upright's inners into one and increase the value. Of course, we are talking about a Galaga cab too. Galaga machines always seem to bring a premium price, and cocktail cabs would go even higher. I don't think I've ever even seen a Galaga cocktail... -Toth From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Sep 10 02:36:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > Of course, we are talking about a Galaga cab too. Galaga machines always > seem to bring a premium price, and cocktail cabs would go even higher. I > don't think I've ever even seen a Galaga cocktail... Oh, I have, resulting in massive hemorrhaging of my wallet, over a period of months. The machine was shiny new. Doc From fauradon at frontiernet.net Tue Sep 10 06:41:00 2002 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: HP BASIC References: <23005FF585063F4282CD4F54F61760F432BD5A@exchange1.nitram.com> Message-ID: <002a01c258cf$a7f7baa0$0264640a@auradon.com> you can find scan for the HP 85 BASIC guidelines at: http://auradon.com/users/sanctuary/index.html under "Tech info" I hope this helps Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Tredo" To: Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 1:21 PM Subject: Re: HP BASIC > Anyone have an HP Basic Manual ? > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 10 07:45:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Price of GPIB (was: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20020910005502.024b0980@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20020908223502.00a1a4a0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020910084822.477f83d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:01 AM 9/10/02 -0400, Bennett Paul wrote: > > >Yeah? So? > >Maybe the ones you had were junk. Or maybe he wasn't interested in squeezing every last penny out of them. I know for a fact that Fred doesn't make his living by selling HP-IB cards. > >Or maybe you didn't have the ability to properly manage your assets? > >You did end up going out of business, right? I strongly suspect Fred has made a lot more money in his career than you'll ever see! Especialy with your attitude. > >Opinions are like assholes Fred, everybodys got one, and everybody elses >stinks but your own. That term certainy seems to apply to some people that never post on this list except to complain about other people (and then only post anonymously!) and only lurk on the list looking for bargains that they can turn around and make a fat profit on! Joe > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1759281641 > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1758428714 > > > > >At 11:49 AM 9/9/02 -0700, you wrote: >>On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Mail List wrote: >> > And Louis Schulman thought GPIB interfaces were worth only about $5 >> >>Yeah? So? >>He is certainly entitled to that opinion. Particularly since he can find >>them at that price. When I closed out my office, that's more than I got >>for them. > > From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Sep 10 07:53:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Price of GPIB (was: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020910084822.477f83d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: I'm tending to agree with Joe here, we don't need these personal attacks on the list. If you really feel it's necessary to attack someone, do it with private email. This is one thing I detest even more than the MPAA, RIAA, DVD's CSS, and Spam. -- Pat On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > At 01:01 AM 9/10/02 -0400, Bennett Paul wrote: > > > > > >Yeah? So? > > > >Maybe the ones you had were junk. > > Or maybe he wasn't interested in squeezing every last penny out of them. I know for a fact that Fred doesn't make his living by selling HP-IB cards. > > > > > >Or maybe you didn't have the ability to properly manage your assets? > > > >You did end up going out of business, right? > > I strongly suspect Fred has made a lot more money in his career than you'll ever see! Especialy with your attitude. > > > > > >Opinions are like assholes Fred, everybodys got one, and everybody elses > >stinks but your own. > > That term certainy seems to apply to some people that never post on this list except to complain about other people (and then only post anonymously!) and only lurk on the list looking for bargains that they can turn around and make a fat profit on! > > Joe From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Sep 10 08:39:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe Message-ID: You can always build your own panel. I have friends who run MAME on a PC using real arcade controllers. Happ Controls (http://www.happcontrols.com/) sells buttons, joysticks, trackballs, even coin input boxes. Not necessarily cheap to buy all the parts from them, but they are the real things. -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 4:40 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: New aquisition: Xenophobe >>I do both. MAME is portable, but MAME on a PeeCee keyboard can't match >>the feel of real buttons, etc. >Yea - no kidding. Try playing Robotron on a PC.... Or Star Wars (using keyboard) >>The other issue of emulators vs the real thing is odd controllers - >>spinners come to mind immediately: Tempest, Star Trek and Arkanoid. >>Xenophobe is another, because of the thumb buttons. I've played it >>with MAME (and on my Lynx) and it's not the same feel. It's much >>smoother with the original hardware. >I also like putting quarters in my machines. It's sort of a savings account for my addiction. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Sep 10 09:26:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020910084822.477f83d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020910102448.00786d8c@pop1.epm.net.co> Does anybody have the configuration software for the above device? I want to connect my older mac phonenet network to the rest; I know about the localtalk-ethernet bridge software, but I don't want to hog down a Mac (only possibilities: IIci or SE/30; none of them are particularly fast). Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 10 09:59:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020910145931.67124.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tothwolf wrote: > On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > From: "Ethan Dicks" > > > ...After seeing a stripped Galaga Cocktail go for nearly $100... > > > > Most empty upright cabinets go for giveaway prices. Cocktail machines > > are alway a premium, even stripped ones because one can move an > > upright's inners into one and increase the value. Most of the innards, yes. The monitors are frequently a touch smaller for a cocktail. > Of course, we are talking about a Galaga cab too. Galaga machines always > seem to bring a premium price, and cocktail cabs would go even higher. I > don't think I've ever even seen a Galaga cocktail... The strangest thing about it was the left-right controls were levers with about a 30-45 degree arc of swing, not a joystick knob like the uprights. I'm sure the rest of the stuff in the box was pretty stock. -ethan __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 10 11:05:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Price of GPIB (was: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20020910005502.024b0980@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, An Asshole wrote: > Yeah? So? > > Maybe the ones you had were junk. > > Or maybe you didn't have the ability to properly manage your assets? > > You did end up going out of business, right? Geez, you certainly are a nasty old cuss. Instead of at least trying to understand Fred's point, which was completely valid, you decided to become offended and lash out at him. How sad. > Opinions are like assholes Fred, everybodys got one, and everybody elses > stinks but your own. Assholes are like opinions. Sometimes you just don't want to hear them. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 10 11:07:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Price of GPIB (was: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020910084822.477f83d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > At 01:01 AM 9/10/02 -0400, Bennett Paul wrote: > > > > > >Yeah? So? > > > >Maybe the ones you had were junk. > > Or maybe he wasn't interested in squeezing every last penny out of > them. I know for a fact that Fred doesn't make his living by selling > HP-IB cards. He wasn't. He was more interested in seeing that everything (and it was a lot) went into the hands of those that would benefit the most from it. And it all did. And that's what matters. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 10 11:36:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Xenophobe In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020909163203.03577638@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20020910163611.82838.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Matthew Sell wrote: > > > Of course, the wiring in my house sucks. The electricians put an average > of three rooms on a 15 amp branch. That's typical around here for the houses I've lived in (pre-WW-I, typically, some with active knob-and-tube wiring). I haven't lived in a place with a 60A feed (there are plenty), but the most I have ever had is 100A. > Yea - no kidding. Try playing Robotron on a PC.... Or Star Wars (using > keyboard) Not playable. I'm a whiz at the real Star Wars. I'm OK with the version that came out for the Amiga (uses the mouse for targetting). MAME/keyboard Star Wars is awful. I've seen instructions for how to make a facimile Star Wars controller out of PVC pipe and a few other goodies. Looks interesting but time consuming. I missed the chance to buy a (broken) sit-down Star Wars cabinet at the same time I bought my (broken) Gorf cabinet, but the operator wouldn't name a price (and shortly thereafter, his warehouse was levelled and is now a grassy field next to Chemical Abstracts, as a reference point for the locals on this list). If I run across a broken Star Wars, I'd rather fix it than make a controller from scratch. More payback for the same investment of time. > Both devices (VAX and arcade game) are about the same vintage, and use > similar components - for the most part. Indeed. I stripped some AMD 2901s from a dead 11/730 board for a buddy to fix the math co-processor for his Battlezone. It has one or two 6502s for the main functions and sound, and a bolt-on 16-bit bit-slice vector engine. Apparently they are one of the first things to check if a particular diagnostic code appears. Fixed him right up. I have a stack of 11/730 CPU boards purchased over the 1988-1990 timeframe - it was frequently cheaper to keep our 11/730s running by purchasing entire CPUs than it was to buy a single board from a repair depot like ESS. DEC Field Service contracts were out of sight for deprecated hardware. I still have the 11/730 in storage. It's a nice old box if you can stand .4 VUPs, 5MB of RAM and 120MB of internal storage. Rather play with an 11/750, though. -ethan __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 10 11:42:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <00eb01c25846$f98b34c0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: <20020910164231.58421.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Philip Pemberton wrote: > Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Try Here for a multi-region DVD player. > > http://www.jlist.com/ > > ...I did see a Mustek DVD-V520 player being sold by "Diskhouse"... My favorite hackable players are made by Apex. There are numerous sites for how to repair "features" like region encoding and Macrovision. Not all players are understood well enough to "repair" by the community- at-large. The AD600A, the 500WM and the 1100W are three that I know can be done. One problem is that one model number can encompass several similar products with internal differences, some understood, others not so well. Interested parties should do some googling and/or make a trip to http://www.vcdhelp.com/ Feature shopping guidelines are available from a variety of web pages. One caveat: I have an AD600A (the one that shipped with the "YOU SHOULD NOT BE HERE" menu). I had to upgrade the ROMs (and remove that menu, unfortunately) to fix some bugs in the player that interfered with playback of certain discs (there was a serious filesystem bug with SVCD discs). Sometimes you have to give up certain features to gain others. Shop wisely. -ethan __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Sep 10 12:32:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Price of GPIB (was: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you. I'm too tired and sick to deal with that asshole. I'd rather have Dick back than that jerk. Makes me wish that I still had all of my old GPIB cards (I think that Eric got most of them), just so that I could offer them up at $1 each to anyone but him. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > > > At 01:01 AM 9/10/02 -0400, Bennett Paul wrote: > > > > > > > > >Yeah? So? > > > > > >Maybe the ones you had were junk. > > > > Or maybe he wasn't interested in squeezing every last penny out of > > them. I know for a fact that Fred doesn't make his living by selling > > HP-IB cards. > > He wasn't. He was more interested in seeing that everything (and it > was a lot) went into the hands of those that would benefit the most from > it. And it all did. > > And that's what matters. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Sep 10 12:33:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Price of GPIB (was: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: sorry. that was intended to go privately to Sellam. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Sep 10 12:53:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) References: <20020910164231.58421.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002f01c258f2$d1115860$0100000a@deepspacenine> Ethan Dicks wrote: > My favorite hackable players are made by Apex. There are numerous > sites for how to repair "features" like region encoding and > Macrovision. [...] > One caveat: I have an AD600A (the one that shipped with the "YOU > SHOULD NOT BE HERE" menu). Guess what - the Mustek DVD-V560 (uprated DVD-V520?) has this same menu... Hmm... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ PGP Key ID: 0x0E18C95F PGP Key Fingerprint: 2741 5CB7 1D45 6F77 D1FC FA3D 7A87 2DA4 0E18 C95F From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 10 13:06:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:15 2005 Subject: Price of GPIB (was: Proper Observance of ESD Handling Proceedures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > sorry. > > that was intended to go privately to Sellam. That's OK. Sometimes a public airing of personal sentiment is appropriate ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mythtech at mac.com Tue Sep 10 13:17:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker Message-ID: I just aquired an Apple II "Echo II" card and speaker box. I don't get how to connect the speaker box. It has a Din 5 connector, but no where on the card is any place to connect it. The card has a 2 pin plug for routing the Apple internal speaker, and has a 1/8 inch phono jack for an external speaker. Also, maybe I misunderstood what this thing does. I thought it was basically a sound card for the Apple II series, but the box has a "rate" dial, and the company that makes it is the "American Printing House for the Blind" (based on a product label on the underside of the speaker box). Is this thing some kind of voice box? What software do I need to make it work? -chris From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 10 13:38:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, chris wrote: > I just aquired an Apple II "Echo II" card and speaker box. I don't get > how to connect the speaker box. It has a Din 5 connector, but no where > on the card is any place to connect it. The card has a 2 pin plug for > routing the Apple internal speaker, and has a 1/8 inch phono jack for an > external speaker. I have no idea where the DIN connector would go. I don't think I've ever seen an Echo card with that. > Also, maybe I misunderstood what this thing does. I thought it was > basically a sound card for the Apple II series, but the box has a "rate" > dial, and the company that makes it is the "American Printing House for > the Blind" (based on a product label on the underside of the speaker > box). > > Is this thing some kind of voice box? What software do I need to make it > work? It also does speech synthesis with the supplied software. If you don't have the software then I can probably make a copy for you as I know exactly where my disks are. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Gary.Messick at itt.com Tue Sep 10 13:46:00 2002 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Free Stuff for PICKUP ONLY in Collegeville, PA (near philly) Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468B56@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hechinger [mailto:wonko@4amlunch.net] > Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 3:48 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Free Stuff for PICKUP ONLY in Collegeville, PA (near philly) > > > i have had the pleasure of making a trip with Dave McGuire to > rescue some very > nice PDP-11/70 boxes. what were not expecting was the volume > of stuff that we > were presented with. being the people we are, we could not > just flat out say > no, we had to take it all. it filled a 24' truck. that's a > lot of PDP-11/70. > > in the pile of stuff was a bunch of LA36 and LA120 terminals. > only one of the > LA36 terminals powers up and DTRT, the rest are assumed to be > dead. this is > WAY more stuff that i can deal with, so i need these dead > terminals (including > a dead LA120) as well as the working LA36 and four CRT > terminals gone from my > house as soon as possible. i am not one to lightly toss > things into the skip, > but if these are not recovered from my house in a timely > manner, i fear i have > no choice but to do so. > > ok, quick run out to the driveway, and here is a list of what > is there for the > taking: > > 1 LA120 (assumed broken) > 4 LA36 (assumed broken) > 1 LA36 (seems to work) > 1 Qume QVT-101 CRT terminal (powers up, seems to work) > 1 Qume QVT-201 CRT terminal (powers up, seems to work) > 1 Qume QVT-202 CRT terminal (powers up, seems to work) > MicroTeam FE 4520 CRT terminal (powers up, seems to work) > Diablo 620 (untested, has the extra tractor assembly) > > i think i have the keyboards for all the CRT terminals, but > i'd have to check. > > -brian > > ps: some pics of the PDP-11 haul, as well as moving my large > collection of VAX > kit from dave's locker to my garage (stone/dirt floors SUCK) > -- > she manipulates my language | > the scion of a cunning goddess | Fridge > and i *am* but a MAN | Magnet > watching my gratuitous torment | Poetry > not looking herculean | Brian, I'm looking for some keycaps for a LA-36. Would it be possible for you to grab me a couple of the LA-36's? I could re-reimburse you for expenses incurred (like maybe shipping and a 6-pack?) I've got an original LA-36 (bought new), and the Wife thoughtfully vacuumed the "really dusty" keyboard, and ate a couple of keycaps! Thanks for your consideration! Gary ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ From mythtech at mac.com Tue Sep 10 14:21:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker Message-ID: >I have no idea where the DIN connector would go. I don't think I've ever >seen an Echo card with that. I'm still scratching my head on that. The only DIN 5 connector I remember on an Apple II, is on the IIc for the modem port. Maybe this was meant for that (it is possible that the two are not a pair, I got them as a pair, and I have seen one on eBay as a pair, but maybe the card is for one type of Apple, and the box is for another). >It also does speech synthesis with the supplied software. If you don't >have the software then I can probably make a copy for you as I know >exactly where my disks are. I don't have the software. All I got was a card and speaker box. I was going to check the asimov ftp site, but if you know where the disks are, and it isn't much trouble to send me images, that would be great (but if it is much effort, I can just search that ftp site and then bug you again in the future if I can't find the software there). -chris From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Sep 10 14:21:30 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs References: <001d01c257aa$4a89d900$0100a8c0@sys1> <3.0.6.16.20020909175543.0eb7d35a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D7E469F.7010709@tiac.net> I've got a minty 1977 catalog here... Joe wrote: > 1974 or '75 catalog? I didn't know they printed them that far back. I've seen several 1978 or '79 catalogs but nothing older. > > Joe > > > >At 09:23 AM 9/10/02 +1200, you wrote: > >>Have 1976 if it's of any interest. >>Dave Brown >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "John Galt" >>To: >>Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 2:40 PM >>Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs >> >> >>I'm looking for a 1974, or 1975 Intel Data Catalog. Will pay $200 for >>either. >> >>Will pay $100 for a scanned copy on CD. >> >>Also looking for Intel 1301 ROM. Don't care what's programmed on it. Also >>looking for Intel C3102, C3104, C3106, or C3107 Static RAMs. Will pay $50 >>to $200 ea. depending on condition. >> >>email me: gmphillips@earthlink.net >> >> >> >> >> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020910/f5e6ecf2/attachment.html From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Sep 10 14:43:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: The right to tinker (Was Re: Obsolecence) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There's an interesting article mentioned in Slashdot today about Edward Felton's (of SDMI watermark reverse-engineering fame) efforts to publicize the benefits and rights of consumers and researchers to be able to tinker with technology: http://www.economist.com/science/tq/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1176171 It's not a very deep or comprehensive article, but I find some comfort in the fact that someone seems to be looking at preserving our rights to play with technology to experiment and improve it. I see and hear lots of people complaining about corporations and big business erroding our rights, but there don't seem to be many people who are trying to do anything about it. It seems to me that if nothing /is/ done, the hobby we all enjoy and take for granted will be criminalized for subsequent generations. -brian. From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Sep 10 15:09:01 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Data General stuff, Nova 2/10 on ebay Message-ID: <7c.2dd7b337.2aafab66@aol.com> A friend asked me to post this listing of a DG2/10. I told him he is asking 5 times what it is worth but he has delusions of value. If anyone is interested they should would make him an offer after the auction closes. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2052986986&rd=1 I told him the price he is asking is for a fully function and running DG not an incomplete and untested system. I think he realizes it wont sell. I mention him in particular because he is sitting on one of the biggest stashes of Data General in the Northwest. He is an old mainframe person turned into a scrapper who like to accumulate. Findlay used to provide data processing services and still has a running IBM 4381 in a real computer room. However I don't think he does much data processing business anymore and makes his living off of scrapping. He turned out to be the DG scrap specialist in PDX in the late 1990s when a lot of systems were coming out of service from the Government. Last I was there the place was filled with old DG racks. He was/is selling parts into the DG secondary market. Everything from Novas to MVS?10,000s. Not much newer. If you are looking for odd old Data General parts it may be worth contacting him. He travels a good part of the year. Paxton Astoria, OR From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 10 15:10:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, chris wrote: > I'm still scratching my head on that. The only DIN 5 connector I remember > on an Apple II, is on the IIc for the modem port. Maybe this was meant > for that (it is possible that the two are not a pair, I got them as a > pair, and I have seen one on eBay as a pair, but maybe the card is for > one type of Apple, and the box is for another). Aha. Look at the speaker box. Does it say "Echo II" or "Echo IIc"? If the latter then it is the //c version of the Echo card, since there is no way to put the card inside a //c. If this is the case, I am not terribly familiar with the Echo IIc. I would guess the electronics are in the box, and it connects to a serial port on the back of the //c. > I don't have the software. All I got was a card and speaker box. I was > going to check the asimov ftp site, but if you know where the disks are, > and it isn't much trouble to send me images, that would be great (but if > it is much effort, I can just search that ftp site and then bug you again > in the future if I can't find the software there). These days everything is a chore. If you don't find it on Asimov then let me know. I'll make disk images that I can send to you, and you can put them up on Asimov for the next guy :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 10 15:22:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) In-Reply-To: <000d01c25888$f0cc1ba0$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 10, 2 06:14:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 800 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020910/baa9d8ac/attachment.ksh From mythtech at mac.com Tue Sep 10 15:38:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker Message-ID: >Aha. Look at the speaker box. Does it say "Echo II" or "Echo IIc"? If >the latter then it is the //c version of the Echo card, since there is no >way to put the card inside a //c. If this is the case, I am not terribly >familiar with the Echo IIc. I would guess the electronics are in the box, >and it connects to a serial port on the back of the //c. All it says is "Echo" and then on the bottom it says "Echo Commander". I did find some links, and I am guessing you are right, this is the IIc version, and doesn't actually go with the card that I got. I found out there were at least IIe, IIgs, Mac, and PC versions, all seem to have slightly different connection methods. I didn't see anything that specifically mentioned a IIc version, but it would make the most sense based on the plug. I'll have to pull out my IIc and give it a try. Do you know, do you *need* the echo box, or will any speaker work? Can I just hook up a set of headphones to the card's "speaker" connection and use it that way? Or is the speaker box part of the system itself (has electronics in it that are used for the speech). Just curious if I should hunt down the box to match my card, or if I can use it without. >These days everything is a chore. If you don't find it on Asimov then let >me know. I'll make disk images that I can send to you, and you can put >them up on Asimov for the next guy :) In the searching, I found reference to a complete set of the disks being posted on the Asimov site, so they should be there, I just haven't gotten as far as looking. Thanks for the help. -chris From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 10 15:41:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs In-Reply-To: <3D7E469F.7010709@tiac.net> References: <001d01c257aa$4a89d900$0100a8c0@sys1> <3.0.6.16.20020909175543.0eb7d35a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020910163918.3bef528c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Bob, Do you want to part with it? Joe At 03:23 PM 9/10/02 -0400, you wrote: >I've got a minty 1977 catalog here... > >Joe wrote: > >> 1974 or '75 catalog? I didn't know they printed them that far back. I've seen several 1978 or '79 catalogs but nothing older. >> >> Joe >> >> >> >>At 09:23 AM 9/10/02 +1200, you wrote: >> >>>Have 1976 if it's of any interest. >>>Dave Brown >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "John Galt" >>>To: >>>Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 2:40 PM >>>Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs >>> >>> >>>I'm looking for a 1974, or 1975 Intel Data Catalog. Will pay $200 for >>>either. >>> >>>Will pay $100 for a scanned copy on CD. >>> >>>Also looking for Intel 1301 ROM. Don't care what's programmed on it. Also >>>looking for Intel C3102, C3104, C3106, or C3107 Static RAMs. Will pay $50 >>>to $200 ea. depending on condition. >>> >>>email me: gmphillips@earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\ReWanted.htm" > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 10 15:41:20 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020910164406.443f4f1e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:39 AM 9/10/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, chris wrote: > >> I just aquired an Apple II "Echo II" card and speaker box. I don't get >> how to connect the speaker box. It has a Din 5 connector, but no where >> on the card is any place to connect it. The card has a 2 pin plug for >> routing the Apple internal speaker, and has a 1/8 inch phono jack for an >> external speaker. > >I have no idea where the DIN connector would go. I don't think I've ever >seen an Echo card with that. > >> Also, maybe I misunderstood what this thing does. I thought it was >> basically a sound card for the Apple II series, but the box has a "rate" >> dial, and the company that makes it is the "American Printing House for >> the Blind" (based on a product label on the underside of the speaker >> box). >> >> Is this thing some kind of voice box? What software do I need to make it >> work? > >It also does speech synthesis with the supplied software. If you don't >have the software then I can probably make a copy for you as I know >exactly where my disks are. I could use a copy if you don't mind. I have one of those cards too. Is there anything special about the speaker box? (Is it amplified?) I didn't get the box with mine. FWIW a Google search founds plenty of hits about the Echo cards. They were widely used in computers that were specially set up for the handicapped. Lots of hits and lots of uses but very few had any technical info. Joe From voyager at hol.gr Tue Sep 10 15:44:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker References: Message-ID: <009d01c2590a$5891f260$0100a8c0@voyager3> Hi guys I had posted a message, a few days ago, asking for help on the specs of the external PSU for the infamous Sinclair Flat Screen Pocket TV. Nobody posted any reply (thanks for the help! I guess it was quite off-topic) and I had to open it up and trace back the signals using a multimeter. Well, for any future reference, the PSU Sinclair Flat Screen Pocket TV is 6VDC (much less than 900mA) and the polarity of the socket is : (+)----( *----(-) (inner negative, outer positive) Cheers George From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Sep 10 16:00:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker References: <3.0.6.16.20020910164406.443f4f1e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D7E5C85.B1B05C0F@ccp.com> Joe wrote: > > > > I could use a copy if you don't mind. I have one of those cards too. Is there anything special about the speaker box? (Is it amplified?) I didn't get the box with mine. > > FWIW a Google search founds plenty of hits about the Echo cards. They were widely used in computers that were specially set up for the handicapped. Lots of hits and lots of uses but very few had any technical info. > > Joe Yeah, me too. On my card the speaker box was just a speaker in a box. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Sep 10 16:02:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Today's Dumpster Grab... Message-ID: Well, it'a a touch short of the 10 year rule, but I know there are DEC collectors running around here... I found a Digital VRT17-HA monitor just now. It has 5 BNC connectors, R, G, B, HD, and VD sync. It has a switch, for choosing either 75 ohm or 2k Ohm. It's currently on the 2k Ohm setting. It also has a DIN-8 connector, which appears to be for servicing it. After some quick tests (swapping around the R G and B lines) it appears to work fine, except for the Blue line in the cable itself. Woo-hoo! Now at least I don't have to mess around inside with the high-voltage stuff... Does anyone have a spare cable they're willing to part with? Digital part # 17-04340-01. Next line on it is BC13L-10. -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Sep 10 16:15:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Today's Dumpster Grab... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > Well, it'a a touch short of the 10 year rule, but I know there are > DEC collectors running around here... > I found a Digital VRT17-HA monitor just now. It has 5 BNC > connectors, R, G, B, HD, and VD sync. It has a switch, for choosing either > 75 ohm or 2k Ohm. It's currently on the 2k Ohm setting. It also has a > DIN-8 connector, which appears to be for servicing it. > After some quick tests (swapping around the R G and B lines) it > appears to work fine, except for the Blue line in the cable itself. > Woo-hoo! Now at least I don't have to mess around inside with the > high-voltage stuff... > Does anyone have a spare cable they're willing to part with? > Digital part # 17-04340-01. Next line on it is BC13L-10. > > -- > --- David A. Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > > Thats a standard VGA (HD15) to 5 BNC video cable, Cheapest I've seen them is around $15.00... Peter Wallace From mythtech at mac.com Tue Sep 10 16:19:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker Message-ID: > I could use a copy if you don't mind. I have one of those cards too. >Is there anything special about the speaker box? (Is it amplified?) I >didn't get the box with mine. I just opened the box for mine. Now mine most likely is designed to hook up to the serial port if a IIc, but inside, there is NOTHING of importance. No amplifier, no nothing. Basically, the cable comes in, 2 wires go to the Volume, which splits to a headphone jack and then to the speaker... and 2 wires go to the pot for "Rate". So at least on the IIc version, everything must be done in software, and the rate pot must just alter the signal on the serial port, and just tells the software to make the correct changes. I don't know what is in the box for the IIe card. I found a pic of that box, and it appears to have a standard 1/8 plug for that speaker jack on the card. I couldn't really tell from the picture if there was even a "rate" dial on that box at all. If there was, the dial was missing and it was just the post. I would think that if there is a rate dial for it, that something would have to be done internally to the box, because there doesn't appear to be any way to get the signal back to the card (the jack on my card looks like it might be a mono type plug, which would only give you the +/- for the speaker and no return path). The software is supposed to be on the asimov ftp site (ftp.apple.asimov.net) but I can't seem to log on there right now (I either get a connection refused, or it just sits trying to connect). Does anyone know if that site is still up? (I'll check the appleii newsgroup tonight... I can't read NNTP from work) -chris From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 10 16:23:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Data General stuff, Nova 2/10 on ebay In-Reply-To: <7c.2dd7b337.2aafab66@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > A friend asked me to post this listing of a DG2/10. I told him he is asking 5 > times what it is worth but he has delusions of value. If anyone is interested > they should would make him an offer after the auction closes. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2052986986&rd=1 > > I told him the price he is asking is for a fully function and running DG not > an incomplete and untested system. I think he realizes it wont sell. Hi opening bid is a tad high but I don't think it's way off the mark, as long as the chassis is stuffed with enough cards to make it work. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 10 16:25:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, chris wrote: > I did find some links, and I am guessing you are right, this is the IIc > version, and doesn't actually go with the card that I got. I found out > there were at least IIe, IIgs, Mac, and PC versions, all seem to have > slightly different connection methods. I didn't see anything that > specifically mentioned a IIc version, but it would make the most sense > based on the plug. I'll have to pull out my IIc and give it a try. I could swear I have at least a couple "Echo IIc" units. > Do you know, do you *need* the echo box, or will any speaker work? Can I > just hook up a set of headphones to the card's "speaker" connection and > use it that way? Or is the speaker box part of the system itself (has > electronics in it that are used for the speech). Just curious if I should > hunt down the box to match my card, or if I can use it without. I think you need an amplified speaker, but yes, any one will do. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Sep 10 16:25:10 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Today's Dumpster Grab... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 09/10/02, Peter C. Wallace scribbled: > On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Well, it'a a touch short of the 10 year rule, but I know there are > > DEC collectors running around here... > > I found a Digital VRT17-HA monitor just now. It has 5 BNC > > connectors, R, G, B, HD, and VD sync... > > ... > > Does anyone have a spare cable they're willing to part with? > > Digital part # 17-04340-01. Next line on it is BC13L-10. > > > > Thats a standard VGA (HD15) to 5 BNC video cable, Cheapest I've seen them is > around $15.00... > Cool, thanks for the info. That'll make it a little easier. Searching on eBay hasn't turned up anything yet, well at least searching on the Digital parts numbers... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 10 16:27:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Sinclair Flat Screen (was Re: Apple II Echo II card and speaker) In-Reply-To: <009d01c2590a$5891f260$0100a8c0@voyager3> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Voyager wrote: > Hi guys > > I had posted a message, a few days ago, asking for help on the specs of the > external PSU for the infamous Sinclair Flat Screen Pocket TV. Nobody posted > any reply (thanks for the help! I guess it was quite off-topic) and I had to > open it up and trace back the signals using a multimeter. > > Well, for any future reference, the PSU Sinclair Flat Screen Pocket TV is > 6VDC (much less than 900mA) and the polarity of the socket is : (+)----( > *----(-) (inner negative, outer positive) Hi George. It would probably help immensely if you started a new thread with an appropriate subject title rather than simply replying to the first message you come across with your query. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 10 16:33:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, chris wrote: > I just opened the box for mine. Now mine most likely is designed to hook > up to the serial port if a IIc, but inside, there is NOTHING of > importance. No amplifier, no nothing. Basically, the cable comes in, 2 > wires go to the Volume, which splits to a headphone jack and then to the > speaker... and 2 wires go to the pot for "Rate". > > So at least on the IIc version, everything must be done in software, and > the rate pot must just alter the signal on the serial port, and just > tells the software to make the correct changes. No, that's not right. The //c has no hardware for producing sound other than the internal speaker that you rattle incessantly to make any noise with. Maybe there was an additional module that plugged in between the speaker box and the //c? > I don't know what is in the box for the IIe card. I found a pic of that > box, and it appears to have a standard 1/8 plug for that speaker jack on > the card. I couldn't really tell from the picture if there was even a > "rate" dial on that box at all. If there was, the dial was missing and it > was just the post. I would think that if there is a rate dial for it, > that something would have to be done internally to the box, because there > doesn't appear to be any way to get the signal back to the card (the jack > on my card looks like it might be a mono type plug, which would only give > you the +/- for the speaker and no return path). I haven't looked at one in a while so I don't remember if there is a "rate" dial, but my recollection is that there is not. I did some googling but it didn't turn up anything terribly relevant to the Echo IIc. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Sep 10 16:43:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Data General stuff, Nova 2/10 on ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > > > A friend asked me to post this listing of a DG2/10. I told him he is asking 5 > > times what it is worth but he has delusions of value. If anyone is interested > > they should would make him an offer after the auction closes. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2052986986&rd=1 > > > > I told him the price he is asking is for a fully function and running DG not > > an incomplete and untested system. I think he realizes it wont sell. > > Hi opening bid is a tad high but I don't think it's way off the mark, as > long as the chassis is stuffed with enough cards to make it work. The lack of memory kind of takes the fun out of it... > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > Peter Wallace From voyager at hol.gr Tue Sep 10 16:49:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Sinclair Flat Screen (was Re: Apple II Echo II card and speaker) References: Message-ID: <03c401c25913$727adb20$0100a8c0@voyager3> Sorry Ismail, but I pressed Ctrl+Enter a split second before the Paste of the subject. Really sorry for the mess. > > Hi George. > > It would probably help immensely if you started a new thread with an > appropriate subject title rather than simply replying to the first message > you come across with your query. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 10 17:00:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Data General stuff, Nova 2/10 on ebay In-Reply-To: from "Peter C. Wallace" at Sep 10, 2002 02:43:49 PM Message-ID: <200209102200.g8AM0kC00753@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Hi opening bid is a tad high but I don't think it's way off the mark, as > > long as the chassis is stuffed with enough cards to make it work. > > The lack of memory kind of takes the fun out of it... Thankfully the opening bid is as high as it is. Unless I'm mistaken I've got Doc's and a Coreplane (from Paxton no less), somewhere. Worse, I wouldn't have to pay shipping, as I could go pick it up. Zane Must remember, I do not need another Mini..... From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 10 17:14:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker In-Reply-To: <009d01c2590a$5891f260$0100a8c0@voyager3> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020910181009.1137ec88@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:40 PM 9/10/02 +0300, you wrote: >Hi guys > >I had posted a message, a few days ago, asking for help on the specs of the >external PSU for the infamous Sinclair Flat Screen Pocket TV. Nobody posted >any reply (thanks for the help! Did you happen to think that maybe no body knew the answer to your question and that that's why no one replied? I've asked about external PSUs several times and never got a response but I never got PO'd about it. Joe I guess it was quite off-topic) and I had to >open it up and trace back the signals using a multimeter. > >Well, for any future reference, the PSU Sinclair Flat Screen Pocket TV is >6VDC (much less than 900mA) and the polarity of the socket is : (+)----( >*----(-) (inner negative, outer positive) > > >Cheers >George > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 10 17:14:18 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker In-Reply-To: <3D7E5C85.B1B05C0F@ccp.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020910164406.443f4f1e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020910181137.1137d254@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks Gary, that's what I expected. Do you know if the speaker is 8 Ohm, 4 Ohm or what? Joe At 03:56 PM 9/10/02 -0500, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> >> >> >> I could use a copy if you don't mind. I have one of those cards too. Is there anything special about the speaker box? (Is it amplified?) I didn't get the box with mine. >> >> FWIW a Google search founds plenty of hits about the Echo cards. They were widely used in computers that were specially set up for the handicapped. Lots of hits and lots of uses but very few had any technical info. >> >> Joe > >Yeah, me too. On my card the speaker box was just a speaker in a box. > >Gary Hildebrand >St. Joseph > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 10 17:14:26 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Data General stuff, Nova 2/10 on ebay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020910181716.452fddb6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:43 PM 9/10/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >> On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: >> >> > A friend asked me to post this listing of a DG2/10. I told him he is asking 5 >> > times what it is worth but he has delusions of value. If anyone is interested >> > they should would make him an offer after the auction closes. >> > >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2052986986&rd=1 >> > >> > I told him the price he is asking is for a fully function and running DG not >> > an incomplete and untested system. I think he realizes it wont sell. >> >> Hi opening bid is a tad high but I don't think it's way off the mark, as >> long as the chassis is stuffed with enough cards to make it work. > >The lack of memory kind of takes the fun out of it... This sounds like it might be a good time for me to put those DG Nova 4 memory cards that I have on E-bay :-) Joe From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Sep 10 17:34:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Apple II Echo II card and speaker References: <3.0.6.16.20020910164406.443f4f1e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020910181137.1137d254@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D7E7292.536FE682@ccp.com> Joe wrote: > > Thanks Gary, that's what I expected. Do you know if the speaker is 8 Ohm, 4 Ohm or what? > > Joe probably 8, shouldn't make any difference. Gary From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 10 18:01:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Data General stuff, Nova 2/10 on ebay Message-ID: Holy ugly 70's colors, Batman! _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Sep 10 18:17:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs In-Reply-To: Bob Shannon "Re: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs" (Sep 10, 15:23) References: <001d01c257aa$4a89d900$0100a8c0@sys1> <3.0.6.16.20020909175543.0eb7d35a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3D7E469F.7010709@tiac.net> Message-ID: <10209102237.ZM1924@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 10, 15:23, Bob Shannon wrote: > > I've got a minty 1977 catalog here... > > Joe wrote: > > > > 1974 or '75 catalog? I didn't know they printed them that far back. > > I've seen several 1978 or '79 catalogs but nothing older. I have a well-thumbed 1976. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Sep 10 18:39:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Today's Dumpster Grab... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > Thats a standard VGA (HD15) to 5 BNC video cable, Cheapest I've seen them is > around $15.00... Ack! The Goodwill here almost always has a few for $5 or so. Doc From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Sep 10 18:53:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Data General stuff, Nova 2/10 on ebay In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020910181716.452fddb6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020910195221.02c7d0c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> At 06:17 PM 9/10/2002 +0000, you wrote: >At 02:43 PM 9/10/02 -0700, you wrote: > >On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> > A friend asked me to post this listing of a DG2/10. I told him he is > asking 5 > >> > times what it is worth but he has delusions of value. If anyone is > interested > >> > they should would make him an offer after the auction closes. > >> > > >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2052986986&rd=1 > >> > > >> > I told him the price he is asking is for a fully function and > running DG not > >> > an incomplete and untested system. I think he realizes it wont sell. > >> > >> Hi opening bid is a tad high but I don't think it's way off the mark, as > >> long as the chassis is stuffed with enough cards to make it work. > > > > >The lack of memory kind of takes the fun out of it... > > > This sounds like it might be a good time for me to put those DG Nova 4 > memory cards that I have on E-bay :-) Just make sure you get top dollar for them. Or better yet, end the auction early and sell the boards to me offline after a bunch of people have already bid on them. :-) -- Tony > Joe From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Sep 10 19:02:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs In-Reply-To: <10209102237.ZM1924@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Joe wrote: > > > > > > 1974 or '75 catalog? I didn't know they printed them that far back. > > > I've seen several 1978 or '79 catalogs but nothing older. > > I have a well-thumbed 1976. I have a well-thumbed 1972 -- Her name is Grace. I will apologise, but I will not cancel the send. It Just Had To Be Said. :) Doc From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Sep 10 19:21:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Today's Dumpster Grab... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > Thats a standard VGA (HD15) to 5 BNC video cable, Cheapest I've seen them is > > around $15.00... > > Ack! The Goodwill here almost always has a few for $5 or so. > > Doc > > You must have a better Goodwill there that we have around here. There is never _any_ computer stuff at our local Goodwill. I've seen computer stuff donated, not sure where it goes though... Peter Wallace From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 10 19:32:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Today's Dumpster Grab... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > You must have a better Goodwill there that we have around here. There is > never _any_ computer stuff at our local Goodwill. I've seen computer > stuff donated, not sure where it goes though... At least in Northern California, I don't think they even take computers as donations anymore. They aren't saleable (especially at the prices they try to sell them for) and now they just end up getting stuck with toxic waste. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mythtech at mac.com Tue Sep 10 19:44:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Today's Dumpster Grab... Message-ID: >You must have a better Goodwill there that we have around here. There is >never >_any_ computer stuff at our local Goodwill. I've seen computer stuff >donated, not sure where it goes though... They might throw it out... the Salavation Army store near me does that. They sell computer parts (monitors, keyboards, software, printers, that kind of stuff), but all CPU's they throw out. They claim this is because too many people were buying them, and then bringing them back and expecting support or to return them when they didn't work (despite all the large "As Is, All Sales Final" signs everywhere). You should check with them, maybe they will let you have them if all they are doing is tossing them. -chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Sep 10 19:56:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Today's Dumpster Grab... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > Thats a standard VGA (HD15) to 5 BNC video cable, Cheapest I've seen them is > > > around $15.00... > > Ack! The Goodwill here almost always has a few for $5 or so. On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > You must have a better Goodwill there that we have around here. There is never > _any_ computer stuff at our local Goodwill. I've seen computer stuff > donated, not sure where it goes though... Where does it go? Obviously to Doc's Goodwill store. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 10 21:14:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Data General stuff, Nova 2/10 on ebay In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020910195221.02c7d0c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020910181716.452fddb6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020910221650.0e1fb748@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:53 PM 9/10/02 -0400, you wrote: >At 06:17 PM 9/10/2002 +0000, you wrote: >>At 02:43 PM 9/10/02 -0700, you wrote: >> >On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >> > A friend asked me to post this listing of a DG2/10. I told him he is >> asking 5 >> >> > times what it is worth but he has delusions of value. If anyone is >> interested >> >> > they should would make him an offer after the auction closes. >> >> > >> >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2052986986&rd=1 >> >> > >> >> > I told him the price he is asking is for a fully function and >> running DG not >> >> > an incomplete and untested system. I think he realizes it wont sell. >> >> >> >> Hi opening bid is a tad high but I don't think it's way off the mark, as >> >> long as the chassis is stuffed with enough cards to make it work. >> >> > >> >The lack of memory kind of takes the fun out of it... >> >> >> This sounds like it might be a good time for me to put those DG Nova 4 >> memory cards that I have on E-bay :-) > >Just make sure you get top dollar for them. Or better yet, end the auction >early and sell the boards to me offline after a bunch of people have >already bid on them. :-) You're catching on Tony. :-) Joe From wonko at 4amlunch.net Tue Sep 10 23:28:00 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: More Free Stuff Near Philly Message-ID: <20020911002812.P75088@marvin.4amlunch.net> ok, added to the list are two Dataproducts dot-matrix printers, model M200. one in beige skins and one in black skins. also available is a spares kit that has at least one of every piece in the printers. -brian -- "You're the only stranger i know, and you're as strange as they come laddie." From mythtech at mac.com Wed Sep 11 00:37:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Anyone in the Raleigh NC area? Message-ID: This is on eBay right now, anyone in the Raleigh North Carolina area that wants these things? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2051689106 I would love a 512k or two and the SE 30, and would be willing to go in for some (or all if it goes low) of the bid if someone wants to pick these things up. It looks like they can probably be had for about $30 (opening bid of $25 with zero current bids, closes in about 12 hours) -chris From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Sep 11 00:44:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020910102448.00786d8c@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <3.0.6.16.20020910084822.477f83d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020910224432.0422fec0@mail.zipcon.net> It may be available on intel's site, ISTR that INtel bought out Shiva At 10:24 AM 9/10/02 -0400, you wrote: >Does anybody have the configuration software for the above device? >I want to connect my older mac phonenet network to the rest; >I know about the localtalk-ethernet bridge software, but I don't >want to hog down a Mac (only possibilities: IIci or SE/30; none of them are >particularly fast). > >Carlos. > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Sep 11 01:18:06 2002 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: MasPar, anyone? Message-ID: <01KMCRTVQG5U8Y65EJ@cc.usu.edu> Qstieee@aol.com said: > I believe it stood for Massachusetts Parallel processing, or perhaps > Massively Parallel processing. It was for real-time high performance use. MasPar was a company out of Milpitas, CA founded (I understand) by ex-DECcies. They built a SIMD massively parallel machine. The unit was controlled by a front-end computer, originally a VAXstation 3520 running Ultrix, later some flavor of DECstation 5000 also running Ultrix. They used the VAXstation 3520 because they got a real good deal on them from DEC, who was anxious to sell the thing. I designed the interface between the 3520 and the MasPar which, AFAIK, was the only 3rd party interface done for the 3520's proprietary MBUS. They claimed to have licked the problem of compiling for and debugging SIMD machines using standard languages; IIRC they supported FORTRAN and C. Seems to me they were more proud of their debugger than their compilers. I debugged the front-end interface hardware by poking hand-assembled code into the console using CP/M KERMIT's TRANSMIT command on my (then) trusty Kaypro 10. When I arrived with the prototype and my Kaypro, they said "How quaint; he hand-assembles code". After a while it was "Wow! Scope loops you can see on a scope!" (they were using a high-level interpreted thingy called hdb for hardware debugging; their scope loops were too slow to see on a scope) By the time I left, it was "show us how you did that." Sometimes being an old fart pays off. -- Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From red at bears.org Wed Sep 11 02:40:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: MasPar, anyone? In-Reply-To: <01KMCRTVQG5U8Y65EJ@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Roger Ivie wrote: > I designed the interface between the 3520 and the MasPar which, AFAIK, > was the only 3rd party interface done for the 3520's proprietary MBUS. That's cool. I always like hearing about the classic stuff you guys were involved with designing. I guess it's my secret disappointment that I never made it into the compsci department at university and consequently dropped out to become a unix sysadmin. (: > After a while it was "Wow! Scope loops you can see on a scope!" (they > were using a high-level interpreted thingy called hdb for hardware > debugging; their scope loops were too slow to see on a scope) By the > time I left, it was "show us how you did that." Sometimes being an old > fart pays off. I've never heard of a scope loop. What is it? ok r. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Sep 11 02:49:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: Message-ID: <000b01c25967$a585ad20$567efea9@deepspacenine> Tony Duell wrote: > But what chipset does this decoder use? Some of them do contain sync > generators, as they can be used as general-purpose display devices > too. The SAA524x series can, for example. The board is from a Ferguson T14T (Thomson TX91 chassis?) and has two ICs onboard - a Texas Instruments IC labelled: EUROTEXT TELETEXT DECODER CF70204NW 59A5V3W The other one is also TI, labelled: 58D71DT CF72306 DATA SLICER Anyone got a Ferguson T14T or Thomson TX91 service manual? I need the part number of the TTX decoder mentioned in the schematic. I think it originally used a Philips SAA52xx IC, not sure though. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Sep 11 02:53:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:16 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) Message-ID: <002501c25968$36aeee60$567efea9@deepspacenine> Sorry about the last message (the one that contained HTML). I've just reinstalled Win98 and Outlook and forgot that OE5.5 defaulted to HTML format for mail. Tony Duell wrote: > But what chipset does this decoder use? Some of them do contain sync > generators, as they can be used as general-purpose display devices > too. The SAA524x series can, for example. The board is from a Ferguson T14T (Thomson TX91 chassis?) and has two ICs onboard - a Texas Instruments IC labelled: EUROTEXT TELETEXT DECODER CF70204NW 59A5V3W The other one is also TI, labelled: 58D71DT CF72306 DATA SLICER Anyone got a Ferguson T14T or Thomson TX91 service manual? I need the part number of the TTX decoder mentioned in the schematic. I think it originally used a Philips SAA52xx IC, not sure though. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Sep 11 03:04:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3520 (was: Re: MasPar, anyone?) In-Reply-To: <01KMCRTVQG5U8Y65EJ@cc.usu.edu>; from IVIE@cc.usu.edu on Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 08:18:25 CEST References: <01KMCRTVQG5U8Y65EJ@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: <20020911095706.C13075@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.09.11 08:18 Roger Ivie wrote: > They used the VAXstation 3520 because they got a real good deal on > them from DEC, who was anxious to sell the thing. I designed the > interface between the 3520 and the MasPar which, AFAIK, was the > only 3rd party interface done for the 3520's proprietary MBUS. Du you still have access to doc about the VAXstation 3520 and its MBUS? NetBSD on a VS 3520 or 3540 would be so nice as NetBSD VAX supports SMP for more than a year now... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Sep 11 03:16:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Anyone in the Pacific Northwest (USA) going to the VCF? Message-ID: <20020911011700.C24305@eskimo.eskimo.com> I want to bring an exhibit. Taking things on the plane is even more of a nuisance than usual these days, shipping could be expensive, the train may not be very practical, and I can't drive. So a ride would be the logical way to go. I'm in downtown Seattle. Thanks, -- Derek From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Sep 11 07:14:01 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Anyone in the Raleigh NC area? Message-ID: <10f.16edb6e4.2ab08da6@aol.com> In a message dated 9/11/2002 1:39:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mythtech@mac.com writes: << This is on eBay right now, anyone in the Raleigh North Carolina area that wants these things? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2051689106 >> hmmm, I'll check it out. I guess the SE30 would be worth it. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From hansp at aconit.org Wed Sep 11 07:18:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: MasPar, anyone? References: Message-ID: <3D7F3460.4020806@aconit.org> r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > I've never heard of a scope loop. What is it? I'll bite: Scope loop : A short sequence of code used to exercise a specific hardware component such that its operation can be verified using an oscilloscope. -- hbp From at258 at osfn.org Wed Sep 11 08:01:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On monday, a crew of RICM faithfuls and friends from RCS/RI visited International Bridge and Iron in Newington, CT. Our purpose was to rescue to largely intact Univac systems. The oldest, a 9300 went of Bill Donzelli of RCS/RI. The other system was a Univac 80, ca 1973, and it is presently sitting quietly in a storage locker until we can give it our attention. A vilely hot day, and it was a bit of shock to realise that the 9300 did not ride on casters, hence a nasty moving job, but everything was loaded into the truck in a little over 4 hours, including 3 1710 card punch/verifiers. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Sep 11 08:52:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: HP Protocol Analyzers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Figured this was on topic since it's over 10 years old and has a computer inside... Heh. I acquired a pair of HP-4952A protocol analyzers. One has version 1.00 1986 software, the other A.02.00 1989 software. I'm wondering if I can update the software of the older unit. I figured with the vast knowledge base of this group, someone here probably actually helped designed the things... :) Also, I'm looking for a copy of the terminal emulator that came with these. I know the diskettes can't be copied on the unit, but I'm sure they could be copied on a *nix box. Any help would be appreciated. --John From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Sep 11 09:17:01 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Today's Dumpster Grab... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 09/10/02, Doc Shipley scribbled: > On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > Thats a standard VGA (HD15) to 5 BNC video cable, Cheapest I've seen them is > > around $15.00... > > Ack! The Goodwill here almost always has a few for $5 or so. > > Doc > Problem is, I haven't found any decent used computer shops around here, and Goodwill only deals in clothes and home goods... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 11 11:03:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: HP Protocol Analyzers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020911160249.44262.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > I acquired a pair of HP-4952A protocol analyzers. One has version > 1.00 1986 software, the other A.02.00 1989 software... > > Also, I'm looking for a copy of the terminal emulator that came with > these. I know the diskettes can't be copied on the unit, but I'm sure > they could be copied on a *nix box. Can't help you with floppy-based HP analyzers, but it leads me to ask about my own - I have a pair of portable HP protocol analyzers (I *thought* the numbers were 4951A and 4951B, buit they do not use 3.5" floppies (that's the 4951C, AFAIK); instead, they use the same sort of tapes as a DEC TU-58). I did find this PDF on a Google search: http://www.helmut-singer.de/pdf/hp4951c-4952a-4954a-4955a-4972a.pdf Doesn't solve any problems, but it's a nice feature reference. We did lots and lots with ours, including simulating an IBM 37X5 (PU T4) up to and including the BIND, with enough RR traffic to fool our PU T2 product into thinking it was logging onto a real system. It's harder than it sounds, especially given that the menu-based "programming language" does not allow much creative latitude. I suspect that newer analyzers (like yours), especially those mentioned in that PDF file, would have better SNA support. In any case, they were stunning for BISYNC traffic. Not sure we ever used them for async monitoring, but they _will_ do it. Are there any other HP analyzer owners on the list? I'd love to swap any information. -ethan __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Sep 11 11:47:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: HP Protocol Analyzers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33409.64.169.63.74.1031762844.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I acquired a pair of HP-4952A protocol analyzers. [..] > Also, I'm looking for a copy of the terminal emulator that came with > these. Terminal emulator? I've used these things for over ten years, and never heard of a terminal emulator running on them. (Of course, I've also never had a manual.) > I know the diskettes can't be copied on the unit, Are you sure? I haven't done it in quite a while, but I thought they could. From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 11 12:00:01 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Today's Dumpster Grab... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Same here, includingthe major cities like Louisville, E'town, Elxington and Bowling Green - lots of industry to make donations but I guess a lot goes to supposed "non-profit groups" that are supp0osed to rebuild and donate to needy causes - yet I'm sure they have no use for servers and other industrial scale items as well as classics/obsoletes...I did have connections with one group but they got caught reselling instead of donating and were closed down. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of David A. Woyciesjes -> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 9:19 AM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Today's Dumpster Grab... -> -> -> On 09/10/02, Doc Shipley scribbled: -> -> > On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: -> > -> > > Thats a standard VGA (HD15) to 5 BNC video cable, Cheapest -> I've seen them is -> > > around $15.00... -> > -> > Ack! The Goodwill here almost always has a few for $5 or so. -> > -> > Doc -> > -> -> Problem is, I haven't found any decent used computer shops around -> here, and Goodwill only deals in clothes and home goods... -> -> -- -> --- David A. Woyciesjes -> --- C & IS Support Specialist -> --- Yale University Press -> --- (203) 432-0953 -> --- ICQ # - 905818 -> From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Sep 11 12:07:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: HP Protocol Analyzers In-Reply-To: <33409.64.169.63.74.1031762844.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: I can't find a part number for it, but section 17 of the manual for the 4952A talks about it. And yes, this is the first time I've ever seen a manual, too. Diskettes can be copied, but copy protected files can only be copied once. I think what happens is that the master has a bit set indicating the file is copy protected, and a bit indicating it's copy status. When you copy it, the unit clears the copy status bit. If you try to copy a file that has the copy protection bit set, but the copy status cleared, it won't permit a copy. I don't know about the actual implementation internally, but the manual talks about copying files. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 12:47 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: HP Protocol Analyzers > I acquired a pair of HP-4952A protocol analyzers. [..] > Also, I'm looking for a copy of the terminal emulator that came with > these. Terminal emulator? I've used these things for over ten years, and never heard of a terminal emulator running on them. (Of course, I've also never had a manual.) > I know the diskettes can't be copied on the unit, Are you sure? I haven't done it in quite a while, but I thought they could. From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Sep 11 12:28:00 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Univac rescue References: Message-ID: <005501c259b8$bb75a8a0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Any photo material aviable soon ? Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------ http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle K. Peirce" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 3:01 PM Subject: Re: Univac rescue > > On monday, a crew of RICM faithfuls and friends from RCS/RI visited > International Bridge and Iron in Newington, CT. Our purpose was to > rescue to largely intact Univac systems. The oldest, a 9300 went of Bill > Donzelli of RCS/RI. The other system was a Univac 80, ca 1973, and it is > presently sitting quietly in a storage locker until we can give it our > attention. > > A vilely hot day, and it was a bit of shock to realise that the 9300 did > not ride on casters, hence a nasty moving job, but everything was loaded > into the truck in a little over 4 hours, including 3 1710 card > punch/verifiers. > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > From hansp at aconit.org Wed Sep 11 12:32:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Univac rescue References: Message-ID: <3D7F7E43.1020309@aconit.org> Merle K. Peirce wrote: > A vilely hot day, and it was a bit of shock to realise that the 9300 did > not ride on casters, hence a nasty moving job, but everything was loaded > into the truck in a little over 4 hours, including 3 1710 card > punch/verifiers. Sounds like a fun day was had by all. Any pictures available ? -- hbp From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 11 12:40:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: <3D7F7E43.1020309@aconit.org> Message-ID: > A vilely hot day, and it was a bit of shock to realise that the 9300 did > not ride on casters, hence a nasty moving job, but everything was loaded "REAL computers are too big to be on casters"? From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Sep 11 14:01:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020910224432.0422fec0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <3.0.2.32.20020910102448.00786d8c@pop1.epm.net.co> <3.0.6.16.20020910084822.477f83d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020911145912.0077539c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 10:44 PM 9/10/02 -0700, you wrote: >It may be available on intel's site, ISTR that INtel bought out Shiva > >At 10:24 AM 9/10/02 -0400, you wrote: >>Does anybody have the configuration software for the above device? Thanks! I found a version of Net Manager for winblows and a version of LanConnect for Macintosh at the intel site; I think one of them might work. Now I have another question: How do you connect the Fastpath 4's DE-9 Localtalk connector to a phonenet network? Regards, Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 11 14:13:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020911145912.0077539c@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20020911191314.56224.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Carlos Murillo wrote: > I found a version of Net Manager for winblows and a version of LanConnect > for Macintosh at the intel site; I think one of them might work. Cool! I also have a Shiva FastPath/4 with no software. Could you post the URLs? > Now I have another question: How do you connect the Fastpath 4's > DE-9 Localtalk connector to a phonenet network? With a standard (ancient) DE-9<->PhoneNet adapter. Barring that, I have made DIN-8 to DE-9 LocalTalk adapters (my mother had a bunch of Mac 512Ks and switched from Apple's wiring scheme to Farallon PhoneNet when she started adding stations at her business. I got the old AppleTalk adapters). All of my LocalTalk adapters were DE-9-style, but my HP LaserJet-4ML was DIN-8. I took an Imagewriter cable, cut it in half and put DE-9s on the cut ends. The DIN-8s went to "modern" hardware (LJ-4/ML and A-Max II+ board), the DE-9s went to the DE-9s on the old LocalTalk adapaters. I do not have the pinout handy, but there was nothing tricky. I located the signal names on a webpage somewhere (I'd start at http://www.lowendmac.com/ and surf around), and wired them name-to- name along the cable. You would need a female DIN-8 connector to go the other way. I have seen such, but they are not common. They are also a pain to wire to - very close quarters. I rigged one up to make a DA15 to DIN-8 Sun-3 to Sun-4 adapter... Got the Sun 3/60. Got the Sun-3 optical mouse. Don't got a Sun-3 keyboard. -ethan __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Sep 11 15:44:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: What is a Texas Instruments TDS? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020911164655.4757a5c4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> What the heck is a Texas Instruments TDS? It^H^H They look like developement systems. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Sep 11 17:17:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: HP Protocol Analyzers In-Reply-To: <20020911160249.44262.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020911181928.42b7eb4a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Ethan, At 09:02 AM 9/11/02 -0700, you wrote: > >--- "J.C. Wren" wrote: >> I acquired a pair of HP-4952A protocol analyzers. One has version >> 1.00 1986 software, the other A.02.00 1989 software... >> >> Also, I'm looking for a copy of the terminal emulator that came with >> these. I know the diskettes can't be copied on the unit, but I'm sure >> they could be copied on a *nix box. > >Can't help you with floppy-based HP analyzers, but it leads me to ask >about my own - I have a pair of portable HP protocol analyzers (I >*thought* the numbers were 4951A and 4951B, buit they do not use 3.5" >floppies (that's the 4951C, AFAIK); instead, they use the same sort of >tapes as a DEC TU-58). I have a 4951. It uses the same tapes as the HP-85, HP 9825, etc. IIRC they're DC-100 tapes and you can use the same (40MB?) tapes that were used in PCs. You can also reformat and use DECTapes. But check your drive first, you'll probably find that it has the same problems (melted tape drive roller) as the HPs usually do. > >I did find this PDF on a Google search: > > http://www.helmut-singer.de/pdf/hp4951c-4952a-4954a-4955a-4972a.pdf > >Doesn't solve any problems, but it's a nice feature reference. > >We did lots and lots with ours, including simulating an IBM 37X5 (PU T4) >up to and including the BIND, with enough RR traffic to fool our PU T2 >product into thinking it was logging onto a real system. It's harder >than it sounds, especially given that the menu-based "programming >language" does not allow much creative latitude. I suspect that newer >analyzers (like yours), especially those mentioned in that PDF file, >would have better SNA support. In any case, they were stunning for >BISYNC traffic. Not sure we ever used them for async monitoring, but >they _will_ do it. > >Are there any other HP analyzer owners on the list? I'd love to swap >any information. My 4951 is in storage but I'm pretty sure that there's a operators manual with it. Joe > >-ethan > > >__________________________________________________ >Yahoo! - We Remember >9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost >http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Sep 11 17:31:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: HP Protocol Analyzers Message-ID: <200209112231.PAA29590@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I know someone that re-tires phono idlers. Contact me off list and I'll give you the info on him. He said he'd give re-tiring a capstan a try if someone want to experiment. Dwight >From: Joe > >Ethan, > >At 09:02 AM 9/11/02 -0700, you wrote: >> >>--- "J.C. Wren" wrote: >>> I acquired a pair of HP-4952A protocol analyzers. One has version >>> 1.00 1986 software, the other A.02.00 1989 software... >>> >>> Also, I'm looking for a copy of the terminal emulator that came with >>> these. I know the diskettes can't be copied on the unit, but I'm sure >>> they could be copied on a *nix box. >> >>Can't help you with floppy-based HP analyzers, but it leads me to ask >>about my own - I have a pair of portable HP protocol analyzers (I >>*thought* the numbers were 4951A and 4951B, buit they do not use 3.5" >>floppies (that's the 4951C, AFAIK); instead, they use the same sort of >>tapes as a DEC TU-58). > > > I have a 4951. It uses the same tapes as the HP-85, HP 9825, etc. IIRC they're DC-100 tapes and you can use the same (40MB?) tapes that were used in PCs. You can also reformat and use DECTapes. But check your drive first, you'll probably find that it has the same problems (melted tape drive roller) as the HPs usually do. > >> >>I did find this PDF on a Google search: >> >> http://www.helmut-singer.de/pdf/hp4951c-4952a-4954a-4955a-4972a.pdf >> >>Doesn't solve any problems, but it's a nice feature reference. >> >>We did lots and lots with ours, including simulating an IBM 37X5 (PU T4) >>up to and including the BIND, with enough RR traffic to fool our PU T2 >>product into thinking it was logging onto a real system. It's harder >>than it sounds, especially given that the menu-based "programming >>language" does not allow much creative latitude. I suspect that newer >>analyzers (like yours), especially those mentioned in that PDF file, >>would have better SNA support. In any case, they were stunning for >>BISYNC traffic. Not sure we ever used them for async monitoring, but >>they _will_ do it. >> >>Are there any other HP analyzer owners on the list? I'd love to swap >>any information. > > My 4951 is in storage but I'm pretty sure that there's a operators manual with it. > > Joe >> >>-ethan >> >> >>__________________________________________________ >>Yahoo! - We Remember >>9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost >>http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute >> > > > From dittman at dittman.net Wed Sep 11 17:33:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: TI-74 and TI-95 Message-ID: <200209112229.g8BMThg28955@narnia.int.dittman.net> While cleaning up some old stuff I found my TI-74, TI-95, and PC-324 printer. I completely forgot I had these, even though I used to use them all the time. I think the most interesting accessory is the Pascal module for the TI-74, allowing programs to be written in Pascal instead of BASIC. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 11 17:38:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: MasPar, anyone? In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at Sep 11, 2 03:39:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 547 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020911/716a7832/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 11 17:39:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) In-Reply-To: <000b01c25967$a585ad20$567efea9@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 11, 2 08:48:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1340 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020911/1c480b9a/attachment.ksh From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Sep 11 17:39:11 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: <005501c259b8$bb75a8a0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: > Any photo material aviable soon ? I have some poor shots, made when I first discovered the lot about four months ago. The room was a mess (much more so than Monday), so some of the pictures are really bad. 9300 CPU and console printer: http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/Univac01.jpg Punch Station: http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/Univac02.jpg 9300 Disk Control: http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/Univac03.jpg 80 Floppies: http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/Univac04.jpg 9300 innards: http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/Univac05.jpg 80 Disk: http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/Univac06.jpg There is much more, and at least with the 9300, a real photoshoot will occur some time in the future. Much of the system was buried under junk - the card reader, card punch, disk drives, and core box. Most of the 80 was also buried. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Sep 11 17:48:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Univac rescue References: Message-ID: <3D7FC75C.7CCE356B@ccp.com> William Donzelli wrote: > > > Any photo material aviable soon ? > Wow, after hearing the name since I was but a wee lad, getting to see one. Brings back memories of "The Jetsons" with the ultimate robot named 'Uni-blab'. Just think, our grandkids will think the same over the XTs and Amigas of the recent past. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 11 19:46:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020910084822.477f83d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Q: Where did Osama get the idea? Who and when first came up with the idea of flying a plane into the WTC? A: More than a dozen years ago: http://www.xenosoft.com/BLAME.JPG From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 11 20:25:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > "REAL computers are too big to be on casters"? > Are you saying my ES/9000 isn't a real computer? It rides on casters... > 24 of them. I guess that with a couple dozen casters, you can make ANY computer "portable". From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Sep 11 20:55:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > "REAL computers are too big to be on casters"? > > Are you saying my ES/9000 isn't a real computer? It rides on casters... > > 24 of them. > > I guess that with a couple dozen casters, you can make ANY computer ^^^^^^^ I'd probably add ramps and/or elevators to that list. It's a REAL pain moving 'real' computers down stairs, or up stairs for that matter. -- Pat > "portable". > > From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Sep 11 21:39:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: <20020911191314.56224.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.2.32.20020911145912.0077539c@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020911223739.01241670@pop1.epm.net.co> At 12:13 PM 9/11/02 -0700, you wrote: >--- Carlos Murillo wrote: >> I found a version of Net Manager for winblows and a version of LanConnect >> for Macintosh at the intel site; I think one of them might work. >Cool! I also have a Shiva FastPath/4 with no software. Could you >post the URLs? Sure; they're at http://www.intel.com/support/si/dial/netmodem/software.htm AFAIK, this software could manage both the shiva netmodem and the fastpath devices. There is no mention of the shiva fastpath at the site, except as an example of something that can be configured using the Net Manager software. I knew as much, but I did not know that you could do it from the windows version too. >> Now I have another question: How do you connect the Fastpath 4's >> DE-9 Localtalk connector to a phonenet network? >With a standard (ancient) DE-9<->PhoneNet adapter. Barring that, I >have made DIN-8 to DE-9 LocalTalk adapters -snip- >I took an Imagewriter cable, cut it in half and put DE-9s on the cut >ends. The DIN-8s went to "modern" hardware (LJ-4/ML and A-Max II+ >board), the DE-9s went to the DE-9s on the old LocalTalk adapaters. >I do not have the pinout handy, but there was nothing tricky. I >located the signal names on a webpage somewhere (I'd start at >http://www.lowendmac.com/ and surf around), and wired them name-to- >name along the cable. Ok, I'll start searching for this. >You would need a female DIN-8 connector to go the other way. That would be the trickiest part... I think that I should try wiring the DE9 directly to a 4wire phone cable; it is easier to find a phone cable than a female DIN8. Thanks! carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From meltie at myrealbox.com Wed Sep 11 21:58:01 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (melt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1031799513.3224.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Thu, 2002-09-12 at 02:55, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > > "REAL computers are too big to be on casters"? > > > Are you saying my ES/9000 isn't a real computer? It rides on casters... > > > 24 of them. > > > > I guess that with a couple dozen casters, you can make ANY computer > ^^^^^^^ > I'd probably add ramps and/or elevators to that list. It's a REAL pain > moving 'real' computers down stairs, or up stairs for that matter. Nothing that an anglegrinder cannae sort out. alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From mythtech at mac.com Wed Sep 11 22:29:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box Message-ID: >That would be the trickiest part... I think that I should >try wiring the DE9 directly to a 4wire phone cable; it is easier >to find a phone cable than a female DIN8. This won't work as there are electronics in that box. A TeleNet connector doesn't just re-pin from a din 8 to a phone wire. Besides, it only uses 2 of the four wires (the yellow/black pair aka "line 2"). You will need to build an adaptor to go from Din 8 to DE 9, or just check eBay and see if you can find telenet connectors with the DE9 already on it. -chris From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Sep 11 22:43:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020911234146.00775c74@pop1.epm.net.co> At 11:29 PM 9/11/02 -0400, you wrote: >>That would be the trickiest part... I think that I should >>try wiring the DE9 directly to a 4wire phone cable; it is easier >>to find a phone cable than a female DIN8. >This won't work as there are electronics in that box. A TeleNet connector >doesn't just re-pin from a din 8 to a phone wire. I suspected this.. Techworks adapters even have a couple of LED's that light up with net activity... > Besides, it only uses 2 >of the four wires (the yellow/black pair aka "line 2"). Yes, I had figured out this much since the terminators are connected only to these two wires. >You will need to build an adaptor to go from Din 8 to DE 9, or just check >eBay and see if you can find telenet connectors with the DE9 already on >it. I guess it will be much faster if I just open up one of my farallon DIN8-phonenet adapters and copy the circuitry inside, provided that I can find the pinout for the DE-9 connector... Thanks, carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Sep 11 23:25:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: MasPar, anyone? References: Message-ID: <3D801791.8000506@tiac.net> The Imlac CPU has a special instruction that generates a TTL signal to trigger a scope for debugging, a special 'scope loop' opcode. I'd never seen this before the Imlac, its been very handy too! Tony Duell wrote: >>I've never heard of a scope loop. What is it? >> > >A tight software (or maybe even microcode) loop that keeps on doing the >same thing to a particular section of the circuitry. You thus get >repetitive signals that you can look at on an old-fashioned non-storage >oscilloscope. > >Before most serious repairers had logic analysers, such loops were often >the only way to observe how parts of the machine behaved at full speed. >Many diagnostic routines included them (I have certainly seen them >mentioned in MAINDEC listings, for example). > >-tony > > From rhb57 at vol.com Wed Sep 11 23:56:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bad Fred, bad. Now go curl up in your corner like a good geek. I remember having that and last year scowled the box after the tragedy and wondered about that. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) -> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 7:46 PM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? -> -> -> Q: Where did Osama get the idea? Who and when first came up -> with the idea of flying a plane into the WTC? -> -> A: More than a dozen years ago: -> http://www.xenosoft.com/BLAME.JPG -> From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Sep 12 00:46:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: VAX 6000-460 Available -- Richmond, VA References: <1031799513.3224.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <004f01c25a1f$cc896e80$fe41cd18@D73KSM11> Hi all: In a weak moment I bought a VAX 6000-460 rack at a government surplus auction, but have now concluded, reluctantly, that I have nowhere to put it. If anyone from the list wants it, let me know as it is available for pick-up during the next week or two. Priority goes to those who will reimburse me the 60 bucks I paid for it! Wayne Smith From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Sep 12 01:37:00 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Univac rescue Message-ID: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8F10@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> > 80 Floppies: > http://users.bestweb.net/~toober/images/Univac04.jpg This looks quite like the SSP (System Support Processor ?) of the A-series (again ? , it is over 7 years ago). That was also a small table with a few 8" floppy disk drives and to the right a white table surface. I worked on an 1163 and a 1172 Sperry / UNISYS machine. Was one of the happy few allowed to program in assembler. HAd some "odd" things like no stack and some, I still think IMHO, nice instructions, like EX, execute remote. The EX instruction was sort of the execution of one instruction "somewhere else". Compare it to a JSR to a subroutine of one instruction (besides the RTS of course). BTW the 1163 is a main frame, so not likely found "at home". Pity. - Henk. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Sep 12 03:17:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: <3D7FC75C.7CCE356B@ccp.com> References: <3D7FC75C.7CCE356B@ccp.com> Message-ID: <33438.64.169.63.74.1031818651.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Brings back memories of "The Jetsons" with the ultimate robot > named 'Uni-blab'. Make sure that you supply the right kind of power to your robot! From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Sep 12 03:33:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? Message-ID: <7d.2d46992b.2ab1ab4f@aol.com> And here I am contributing to the way way off topic..... I understand one of Tom Clancy's novels deals with the subject, flying large airliners into a building. Written in the mid 1990's. I am trying to find out which novel it is, he is very prolific. Paxton Who is looking for a novel to take traveling to Fiji and wondering where he will find the internet there? Hmm.. When I was last there (1990) the telecom system was run on intel multibus and the airport on a microvax. Does that make this on topic. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Sep 12 03:42:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? References: <7d.2d46992b.2ab1ab4f@aol.com> Message-ID: <00a001c25a38$5235c840$fe41cd18@D73KSM11> Actually, it was two novels. Debt of Honor (1994) and Executive Orders (1996) both involved flying planes into the Capitol, etc. to kill the President and other leaders. -W > And here I am contributing to the way way off topic..... I understand one of > Tom Clancy's novels deals with the subject, flying large airliners into a > building. Written in the mid 1990's. I am trying to find out which novel it > is, he is very prolific. > > Paxton > > Who is looking for a novel to take traveling to Fiji and wondering where he > will find the internet there? > > Hmm.. When I was last there (1990) the telecom system was run on intel > multibus and the airport on a microvax. Does that make this on topic. > From hansp at aconit.org Thu Sep 12 04:11:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Broken mouse! Message-ID: <3D805A2B.7070601@aconit.org> I have been asked if I can repair or replace a broken mouse. It is for a CDC Cyber 910 workstation, the mouse is obviously manufactured by Mouse Systems, its number is MSC 401162-006/E The connection is a DE9 male connector which connects to the system keyboard. The problem is that the mouse was dropped and only one LED works. The mouse allows horizontal cursor movement but not vertical. If anyone has a replacement available or can provide additional information please contact me off list. -- hbp From jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Sep 12 06:13:00 2002 From: jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Broken mouse! In-Reply-To: <3D805A2B.7070601@aconit.org> References: <3D805A2B.7070601@aconit.org> Message-ID: <20020912112147.GA13959@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 11:11:07AM +0200, Hans B Pufal wrote: > It is for a CDC Cyber 910 workstation, Isn't that a relabled SGI Indigo R3000? -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From vaxman at earthlink.net Thu Sep 12 07:06:00 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: <7d.2d46992b.2ab1ab4f@aol.com> Message-ID: One good OT deserves another... In Clive Cussler's latest book, terrorists attempt to sail a supertanker full of propane up to the dock and explode it. In the book Dirk Pitt speculates the WTC towers would not collapse, but the rest of the area would be badly damaged. The printing history: First hardcover edition: August 2001 Regards, Clint On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > And here I am contributing to the way way off topic..... I understand one of > Tom Clancy's novels deals with the subject, flying large airliners into a > building. Written in the mid 1990's. I am trying to find out which novel it > is, he is very prolific. > > Paxton > > Who is looking for a novel to take traveling to Fiji and wondering where he > will find the internet there? > > Hmm.. When I was last there (1990) the telecom system was run on intel > multibus and the airport on a microvax. Does that make this on topic. > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 07:22:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: HAMFEST! Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912082523.5b5fc754@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> There's a hamfest this Saturday in Melbourne Florida at the civic auditorium. This is one of the best one hamfests in the state and definitely worth visiting if you're in the area. While you're there visit Astro II . They're located a few miles away and I always find GOOD stuff there. That's where I found the RCA Cosmac VIP. E-mail if you need directions or anything. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 07:41:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: References: <7d.2d46992b.2ab1ab4f@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912084356.5b2fd000@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> In the book Prometheus (sp?) they load a large freighter with Ammonium Nitrade (with the right additives) then stack the deck with tons of Magnesium ingots and then expode the whole thing in the port in the capital of a South American country. The effect is like that of an atomic bomb (anybody remember what happened in Texas City?) PLUS the flaming magnesium fell for miles outside the blast area and created thousands of fires that combine to form a fire storm. (Remember Toyko in early 1945? The fire storms killed more people than both of the atomic bombs.) I'm convinced that our "leaders" always get most of their plans from movies, TV and books. (R. Reagan watched StarWars one too many times!) Joe At 06:06 AM 9/12/02 -0600, you wrote: > >One good OT deserves another... In Clive Cussler's latest book, >terrorists attempt to sail a supertanker full of propane up to >the dock and explode it. In the book Dirk Pitt speculates the >WTC towers would not collapse, but the rest of the area would >be badly damaged. > >The printing history: First hardcover edition: August 2001 > >Regards, >Clint > >On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > >> And here I am contributing to the way way off topic..... I understand one of >> Tom Clancy's novels deals with the subject, flying large airliners into a >> building. Written in the mid 1990's. I am trying to find out which novel it >> is, he is very prolific. >> >> Paxton >> >> Who is looking for a novel to take traveling to Fiji and wondering where he >> will find the internet there? >> >> Hmm.. When I was last there (1990) the telecom system was run on intel >> multibus and the airport on a microvax. Does that make this on topic. >> > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 07:52:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Anybody know anything about the TI TMS 32010 DSP chip? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912085546.5b1f3c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up a machine (TI TDS) that I thought was a developement system and it has a TMS 32010 pod on it. Joe From hansp at aconit.org Thu Sep 12 08:55:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Broken mouse! - fixed References: <3D805A2B.7070601@aconit.org> <20020912112147.GA13959@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3D809CE1.5080001@aconit.org> Thanks for all the helpful comments. After taking the mouse apart, I realised that my original diagnostic was incorrect. It only has one LED, the other "LED" is actually a sensor. The problem turned out to be simple, one of the shperical plastic lenses had come adrift when the mouse was dropped. -- hbp From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Sep 12 09:18:01 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think the word the best describes this is "hooey". g. On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Bad Fred, bad. Now go curl up in your corner like a good geek. I remember > having that and last year scowled the box after the tragedy and wondered > about that. > > -> -----Original Message----- > -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > -> Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > -> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 7:46 PM > -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > -> Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? > -> > -> > -> Q: Where did Osama get the idea? Who and when first came up > -> with the idea of flying a plane into the WTC? > -> > -> A: More than a dozen years ago: > -> http://www.xenosoft.com/BLAME.JPG > -> > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Sep 12 09:45:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? References: Message-ID: <3D80A7A0.5090204@jetnet.ab.ca> Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > One good OT deserves another... In Clive Cussler's latest book, > terrorists attempt to sail a supertanker full of propane up to > the dock and explode it. In the book Dirk Pitt speculates the > WTC towers would not collapse, but the rest of the area would > be badly damaged. A few years ago I read that a supertanker like that would have the power of a small nuke. It is the fire not the explosion that causes damage in the cities. Remember that the FIRE not the plane crash that damaged the WTC. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Sep 12 10:01:01 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (jbdigriz@dragonsweb.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: Anybody know anything about the TI TMS 32010 DSP chip? Message-ID: <200209121501.g8CF1Tdj016517@ns2.i16.net> Joe wrote .. > I picked up a machine (TI TDS) that I thought was a developement system > and it has a TMS 32010 pod on it. > > Joe I'm only vaguely familiar with the system with the separate 32010 pod. There was the original TMS32010 EVM that has the DSP, TMS9995 host processor, dual serial ports, audio tape interface, EPROM programming socket, and a 40-pin emulation cable. This would be part number RTC/EVM320A-03. Been looking for one, with software, for some time. What is the model number of yours? I have a bunch of TI DSP literature from the 32010 period and I'll try to look it up. This sounds somewhat later, though. jbdigriz From enrico.badella at softstar.it Thu Sep 12 10:06:00 2002 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:17 2005 Subject: HP Protocol Analyzers References: <200209112231.PAA29590@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3DA83955.B9273529@softstar.it> I have a 4951A but it is missing the floppy/tape and the cable that goes from the back to the 18173A RS-232/V24 interface pod. It is a 37 pin cable with a DB like connector. Anybody know if a flat cable will do? I tried to turn it on but the vertical sync sees dead e. -- /|_ .-------------------------. ,' .\ / | Looking for PDP, and VAX| ,--' _,' | hardware and DEC-10 docs| / / `-------------------------' ( -. | | ) | (`-. '--.) `. )----' From jim at jkearney.com Thu Sep 12 10:23:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Anybody know anything about the TI TMS 32010 DSP chip? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020912085546.5b1f3c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020912085546.5b1f3c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: >From: Joe >Subject: Anybody know anything about the TI TMS 32010 DSP chip? > I picked up a machine (TI TDS) that I thought was a developement > system and it has a TMS 32010 pod on it. If you want to do something with it, I know someone with more than a thousand 32010s sitting in a drawer. They're 20Mhz SMT parts, if I recall correctly. Jim From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 12 10:50:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Q: Where did Osama get the idea? Who and when first came up > with the idea of flying a plane into the WTC? > > A: More than a dozen years ago: > http://www.xenosoft.com/BLAME.JPG We should launch a pre-emptive strike against Redmond!! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jamesl at bestweb.net Thu Sep 12 10:54:00 2002 From: jamesl at bestweb.net (James E. LaBarre) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? References: Message-ID: <3D80B8AD.8050105@bestweb.net> One could be in even worse taste and observe that Microsoft, once again, missed their target. I expect the concept of crashing aircraft into things goes way back. There was the small private plane (Cessna or similar) that crashed into the White House (causing little or no damage; it didn't have enough explosive or flamable material to do anything). During WWII there were the kamakazi (sp?) pilots attacking our Pacific Fleet. In fact, the general concept goes back even before aircraft. Think about Roman ships ramming opposition ships in battle. Gene Buckle wrote: > I think the word the best describes this is "hooey". > > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > >>Bad Fred, bad. Now go curl up in your corner like a good geek. I remember >>having that and last year scowled the box after the tragedy and wondered >>about that. From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 12 10:56:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020912084356.5b2fd000@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > In the book Prometheus (sp?) they load a large freighter with > Ammonium Nitrade (with the right additives) then stack the deck with > tons of Magnesium ingots and then expode the whole thing in the port in > the capital of a South American country. The effect is like that of an > atomic bomb (anybody remember what happened in Texas City?) PLUS the > flaming magnesium fell for miles outside the blast area and created > thousands of fires that combine to form a fire storm. (Remember Toyko in > early 1945? The fire storms killed more people than both of the atomic > bombs.) You guys had better be careful discussing all these terror attack scenarios in public. Pretty soon we'll have Asscroft breathing down our necks. (I'm being half serious.) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Sep 12 11:14:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > atomic bomb (anybody remember what happened in Texas City?) PLUS the > > flaming magnesium fell for miles outside the blast area and created > > thousands of fires that combine to form a fire storm. (Remember Toyko in > > early 1945? The fire storms killed more people than both of the atomic > > bombs.) > > You guys had better be careful discussing all these terror attack > scenarios in public. Pretty soon we'll have Asscroft breathing down our > necks. > Don't forget Reichsmarschall Rumsfeld. g. From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Sep 12 11:23:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I always felt that the name "Homeland Security" reeks of Nazi Germany. "Homeland" is not a term we Americans use much, and it feels wrong. "Internal Security" sounds too Russian. They just need to retask the IRS. They've already got all the spies, informants, SWAT teams and databases they need to do the job, right? --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Gene Buckle Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 12:20 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? > > atomic bomb (anybody remember what happened in Texas City?) PLUS the > > flaming magnesium fell for miles outside the blast area and created > > thousands of fires that combine to form a fire storm. (Remember Toyko in > > early 1945? The fire storms killed more people than both of the atomic > > bombs.) > > You guys had better be careful discussing all these terror attack > scenarios in public. Pretty soon we'll have Asscroft breathing down our > necks. > Don't forget Reichsmarschall Rumsfeld. g. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Sep 12 11:23:28 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: Message-ID: <001e01c25a78$a0bb4cc0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Tony Duell wrote: > Texas CFxxxx numbers tend to be custom ASICs :-(. No chance of > getting a data sheet on those. *ACK. > What also bothers me is the lack of RAM. The Philips decoder uses the > SAA5231 VIP (Video Input Processor -- this is essentially the 'data > slicer' and is mostly analouge), the SAA5243 Teletext decoder/display > chip _and an 8K RAM_. There are Philips chips with built-in RAM, though. SAA5246 IIRC. >> Anyone got a Ferguson T14T or Thomson TX91 service manual? I need >> the part > It's a bit modern for me :-(. However, a TV service manual is _not_ > going to include any info on the commands that flow between various > ICs. You will not get a list of registers on the I2C bus and their > contents, for example. The thing that seems interesting is that the TTX controller IDs it as an SAA52xx series TTX controller. The original schematic that I had (a VERY bad scan) listed the TTX controller as an SAA-something-or-other. Shame the scan was so bad. I'm not sure the chassis was TX91 anyway - it might have been TX90. Same thing. Ferguson=Thomson, T14T=TX9-something. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Sep 12 11:36:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Q: Where did Osama get the idea? Who and when first came up > > with the idea of flying a plane into the WTC? > > A: More than a dozen years ago: > > http://www.xenosoft.com/BLAME.JPG > > We should launch a pre-emptive strike against Redmond!! All that I ask is that we make Bill Gates into a millionaire. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Sep 12 11:39:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: <3D80B8AD.8050105@bestweb.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, James E. LaBarre wrote: > One could be in even worse taste and observe that Microsoft, once again, > missed their target. > I expect the concept of crashing aircraft into things goes way back. > There was the small private plane (Cessna or similar) that crashed into > the White House (causing little or no damage; it didn't have enough > explosive or flamable material to do anything). During WWII there were > the kamakazi (sp?) pilots attacking our Pacific Fleet. In fact, the > general concept goes back even before aircraft. Think about Roman ships > ramming opposition ships in battle. Yes But I think that the 1989 Flight Simulator is the FIRST reference to planes with the WTC. As to being "Off-Topic" - It is over 10 years old, and refers to computer history. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 12 11:51:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020911223739.01241670@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20020912165159.26266.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Carlos Murillo wrote: > Sure; they're at > > http://www.intel.com/support/si/dial/netmodem/software.htm Thanks! > >> Now I have another question: How do you connect the Fastpath 4's > >> DE-9 Localtalk connector to a phonenet network? -snip- > >With a standard (ancient) DE-9<->PhoneNet adapter. Barring that, I > >have made DIN-8 to DE-9 LocalTalk adapters > > >You would need a female DIN-8 connector to go the other way. > > That would be the trickiest part... I think that I should > try wiring the DE9 directly to a 4wire phone cable; it is easier > to find a phone cable than a female DIN8. That won't work. The LocalTalk/PhoneNet adapters are not passthrus. Apple LocalTalk adapters contain self-terminating connectors (the plastic pip in the end of the cable pushes on a switch that disengages the internal terminator; PhoneNet adapters use RJ-11s with external terminators), and both adapters contain at least a transformer, IIRC to couple the Mac to the network. There might also be a resistor or two in the adapter. I haven't opened up one in over 10 years. If you have a spare adapter you wish to sacrifice, you could cut the DIN-8 off and install a DE-9 instead. If you had enough cable, you could take the DIN-8 pigtail and put a matching DE-9 on _that_ so you could recombine the two pieces if you needed it for its original use. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 12 11:56:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: HP Protocol Analyzers In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020911181928.42b7eb4a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020912165705.26953.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > Ethan, > > At 09:02 AM 9/11/02 -0700, I wrote: > > > >--- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > >> I acquired a pair of HP-4952A protocol analyzers... > > > >I have a pair of portable HP protocol analyzers (...4951A and 4951B) > > I have a 4951. It uses the same tapes as the HP-85, HP 9825, etc. IIRC > they're DC-100 tapes and you can use the same (40MB?) tapes that were > used in PCs. Really? Didn't know the PC tapes would work in the older drives. Given that the storage capacity of a DECtape and an old PC backup tape are so wildly different, I didn't assume the media was compatible even if the shell would fit in the drive. > You can also reformat and use DECTapes. Right. That's what my boss used to do. I have plenty of 4951-formatted DECtapes to last me a while (5-10, IIRC). > But check your drive first, you'll probably find that it has the same > problems (melted tape drive roller) as the HPs usually do. That's a common problem with all these drives. I've already replaced the melted rubber in one TU-58 with tygon tubing. I can do it again. Last time I checked (six months ago), the 4951s hadn't melted yet. > My 4951 is in storage but I'm pretty sure that there's a operators > manual with it. I have a operator's manual somewhere, too. I'd _really_ love to lay my hands on a maintenance manual. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Sep 12 11:59:01 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: References: <3D80B8AD.8050105@bestweb.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020912115328.05523ea0@pc> At 09:39 AM 9/12/2002 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >But I think that the 1989 Flight Simulator is the FIRST reference to >planes with the WTC. When they built the WTC, the builders and planners were quite aware of its potential as a terrorist target. - John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 12 12:04:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: TU-58 tape drives and melted capstans (was Re: HP Protocol Analyzers) In-Reply-To: <200209112231.PAA29590@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20020912170452.87457.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > Hi > I know someone that re-tires phono idlers. Contact me > off list and I'll give you the info on him. He said > he'd give re-tiring a capstan a try if someone want > to experiment. > Dwight Interesting offer, but Allison's suggestion of Tygon tubing seems to be working just fine. I bought a foot of it at the hardware store and have plenty to refurb all of the TU-58-style drives I have (which is at least 8 - two in an 11/730, one each in two 11/750s, two (already done) in a TU-58 that came out of an 11/725, and two HP 4951s). I've been using the TU-58 pulled from that 11/725 (my boss bought it for a few hundred dollars 10+ years ago to strip for parts for our 11/730 that had daily use until 1994) to archive several dozen kilograms of tapes. I built a power cable to tap off of the PeeCee supply, and grabbed an old DLV11J serial cable and have been using a DOS program to make physical backups. I've only gotten about 20 tapes read so far. I frequently have to clean the head between each tape. Fortunately, I have easy access to the top of the drives. I have about an 80% success rate, reading 100% of the tapes. Some of the ones from c. 1983 just won't read every block (VMS 3.x upgrade tapes - all I need now is the base VMS 3.0 install for an 11/750). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Sep 12 12:19:00 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (jbdigriz@dragonsweb.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? Message-ID: <200209121719.g8CHJsul017443@ns2.i16.net> John Foust wrote .. > At 09:39 AM 9/12/2002 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >But I think that the 1989 Flight Simulator is the FIRST reference to > >planes with the WTC. > > When they built the WTC, the builders and planners were quite aware of > its potential as a terrorist target. > > - John I promised myself I would not contribute to any off-topic threads again on this list, but I have to at least say that your comment is going to have to qualify as one of the great masterpieces of understatement, or maybe caustic irony, of not just this decade or century, but of the millenium. 'nuff sed. jbdigriz From rhb57 at vol.com Thu Sep 12 12:39:00 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: <3D80B8AD.8050105@bestweb.net> Message-ID: Or even catapults lobbing heavy objects into buildings and such, or rolling boulders down big hills into dwellings and towns. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of James E. LaBarre -> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 10:54 AM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? -> -> -> One could be in even worse taste and observe that Microsoft, once again, -> missed their target. -> -> I expect the concept of crashing aircraft into things goes way back. -> There was the small private plane (Cessna or similar) that crashed into -> the White House (causing little or no damage; it didn't have enough -> explosive or flamable material to do anything). During WWII there were -> the kamakazi (sp?) pilots attacking our Pacific Fleet. In fact, the -> general concept goes back even before aircraft. Think about Roman ships -> ramming opposition ships in battle. From rhb57 at vol.com Thu Sep 12 12:39:24 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There is a similar term used a lot though - "Heartland" that I got so sick of hearing when I lived in Wichita. I have heard references to "Homeland" as well and in Hitler's Germany of the 30's and 40's I believe they used "Motherland" more than "Homeland" -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of J.C. Wren -> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 11:24 AM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? -> -> -> I always felt that the name "Homeland Security" reeks of -> Nazi Germany. -> "Homeland" is not a term we Americans use much, and it feels wrong. -> "Internal Security" sounds too Russian. They just need to -> retask the IRS. -> They've already got all the spies, informants, SWAT teams and -> databases they -> need to do the job, right? -> -> --John -> -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Gene Buckle -> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 12:20 -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? -> -> -> > > atomic bomb (anybody remember what happened in Texas City?) PLUS the -> > > flaming magnesium fell for miles outside the blast area and created -> > > thousands of fires that combine to form a fire storm. -> (Remember Toyko in -> > > early 1945? The fire storms killed more people than both of -> the atomic -> > > bombs.) -> > -> > You guys had better be careful discussing all these terror attack -> > scenarios in public. Pretty soon we'll have Asscroft -> breathing down our -> > necks. -> > -> Don't forget Reichsmarschall Rumsfeld. -> -> g. -> -> -> -> From rhb57 at vol.com Thu Sep 12 12:39:46 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: <3D80A7A0.5090204@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Actually the plane damaged the structure but the redundant supports held it up, the heat of the fire is what killed the redundant supports and they collapsed. It was the combination of the ramming/crash and the fire that did what it did. I don't think the planners of the attack expected the collapse to happen either. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Ben Franchuk -> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:42 AM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? -> A few years ago I read that a supertanker like that would have the -> power of a small nuke. It is the fire not the explosion that causes -> damage in the cities. Remember that the FIRE not the plane crash -> that damaged the WTC. -> -> From rhb57 at vol.com Thu Sep 12 12:39:57 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020912084356.5b2fd000@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: The people along the Ohio River in Louisville, Cinncinatti, Evansville, etc have been paranoid of a barge being loaded in a such a manner and docked mear their city since last year - never occurrred to them prior to that. I think last year's tragedy did more than they expected and wanted and they know that fear and paranoia will stay with the masses (for the most part, not everyone) for a long time and give them time to regroup and replan. I'll almost bet that a majority of the people on this list CAN remember when Nagasaki and Hiroshima were nuked, as noted by the demographics of age on the list. My earliest historical memories are watching JFK's burial on TV as a 6 yr old. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Joe -> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:44 AM -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? -> -> -> In the book Prometheus (sp?) they load a large freighter with -> Ammonium Nitrade (with the right additives) then stack the deck -> with tons of Magnesium ingots and then expode the whole thing in -> the port in the capital of a South American country. The effect -> is like that of an atomic bomb (anybody remember what happened -> in Texas City?) PLUS the flaming magnesium fell for miles -> outside the blast area and created thousands of fires that -> combine to form a fire storm. (Remember Toyko in early 1945? The -> fire storms killed more people than both of the atomic bombs.) -> -> I'm convinced that our "leaders" always get most of their -> plans from movies, TV and books. (R. Reagan watched StarWars one -> too many times!) -> -> Joe -> -> -> At 06:06 AM 9/12/02 -0600, you wrote: -> > -> >One good OT deserves another... In Clive Cussler's latest book, -> >terrorists attempt to sail a supertanker full of propane up to -> >the dock and explode it. In the book Dirk Pitt speculates the -> >WTC towers would not collapse, but the rest of the area would -> >be badly damaged. -> > -> >The printing history: First hardcover edition: August 2001 -> > -> >Regards, -> >Clint -> > -> >On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: -> > -> >> And here I am contributing to the way way off topic..... I -> understand one of -> >> Tom Clancy's novels deals with the subject, flying large -> airliners into a -> >> building. Written in the mid 1990's. I am trying to find out -> which novel it -> >> is, he is very prolific. -> >> -> >> Paxton -> >> -> >> Who is looking for a novel to take traveling to Fiji and -> wondering where he -> >> will find the internet there? -> >> -> >> Hmm.. When I was last there (1990) the telecom system was run -> on intel -> >> multibus and the airport on a microvax. Does that make this on topic. -> >> -> > -> > -> -> -> From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Sep 12 12:42:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Anyone in the Pacific Northwest (USA) going to the VCF? Message-ID: <20020912104251.C3238@eskimo.eskimo.com> Sorry if you're subscribed to both lists. This is for the people who are only subscribed to cctech. I want to bring an exhibit. Taking things on the plane is even more of a nuisance than usual these days, shipping could be expensive, the train may not be very practical, and I can't drive. So a ride would be the logical way to go. I'm in downtown Seattle. Thanks, -- Derek From vance at neurotica.com Thu Sep 12 13:12:03 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <20020909172517.GA35384@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > As to DVDs, I can only say "what are those"? I never saw one, and am > in no hurry to see, or use, one. Again, they're digital rubbish, > whereas VCRs use tapes with nice analog signals recorded on them. *shakes head* Peace... Sridhar From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Sep 12 13:12:28 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Q: Where did Osama get the idea? Who and when first came up > > > with the idea of flying a plane into the WTC? > > > A: More than a dozen years ago: > > > http://www.xenosoft.com/BLAME.JPG > > > > We should launch a pre-emptive strike against Redmond!! > > All that I ask is that we make Bill Gates into a millionaire. Hmmm, buy him a stock car. "It's easy to make a small fortune in racing!" "How?" "Start with a LARGE fortune..." yuk, yuk, yuk, yuk Doc From vance at neurotica.com Thu Sep 12 13:12:38 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: <003601c2582b$f25e4ea0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Posessing a decoder not "authorized" by the MPAA > > so that you can watch your *own property* on some OS which the MPAA & > > friends felt was beneath their dignity to port to should /not/ be a > > crime. > Finally! Someone who shares my opinion :-) > I'm not buying a DVDROM for my PC due to region coding - if I want to buy a > DVD in the 'States to watch here in the UK, I'll go ahead and do it. There are ways around region coding. Peace... Sridhar From Qstieee at aol.com Thu Sep 12 13:12:59 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: MasPar, anyone? Message-ID: <30F1CDB3.5E8ED121.001A265C@aol.com> I believe it stood for Massachusetts Parallel processing, or perhaps Massively Parallel processing. It was for real-time high performance use. It was merged with Concurrent Computer Corporation of Oceanport, NJ (formerly Perkin-Elmer, originally Interdata). I have some history with the Interdata and successors, and might be able to contact someone with info on your unit. From DeRoe at aol.com Thu Sep 12 13:13:09 2002 From: DeRoe at aol.com (DeRoe@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Paratronics Logic Analyzer Message-ID: <102.1ab7cb30.2ab02201@aol.com> Joe, I'm not the one who first requested a copy of your Paratronics Logic Analyzer manual, but I do have a need for a copy if it is indeed the Paratronic Logic Analyzer, model PI-616. Let me know what you have, ok? Thanks, Don -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020912/8484e2f6/attachment.html From vcf at siconic.com Thu Sep 12 13:13:24 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Amstrad cpm boot disk wanted. (fwd) Message-ID: Can someone in the UK help Mike out? Please reply to him directly. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:43:32 +0100 From: Mike Coen To: "'archive@vintage.org'" Cc: 'Anthony' Subject: Amstrad cpm boot disk wanted. Hi. Do you know the best way to get hold of an Amstrad cpm boot disk in the UK ? Thanks. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vance at neurotica.com Thu Sep 12 13:13:35 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > A vilely hot day, and it was a bit of shock to realise that the 9300 did > > not ride on casters, hence a nasty moving job, but everything was loaded > > "REAL computers are too big to be on casters"? Are you saying my ES/9000 isn't a real computer? It rides on casters... 24 of them. Paece... Sridhar From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Thu Sep 12 13:13:51 2002 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020911212602.38323.qmail@web20807.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > A vilely hot day, and it was a bit of shock to > realise that the 9300 did > not ride on casters, hence a nasty moving job, but > everything was loaded > > "REAL computers are too big to be on casters"? > Real computers require Roll-a-Lifts, or once installed are never meant to be moved again (http://www.computerhistory.org/volunteers/past_volunteers/meiko_05132000/). Lee Courtney __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute From vance at neurotica.com Thu Sep 12 13:14:01 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: TI-74 and TI-95 In-Reply-To: <200209112229.g8BMThg28955@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: Refresh my memory. What are these machines? Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > While cleaning up some old stuff I found my TI-74, TI-95, and > PC-324 printer. I completely forgot I had these, even though > I used to use them all the time. I think the most interesting > accessory is the Pascal module for the TI-74, allowing programs > to be written in Pascal instead of BASIC. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > From Qstieee at aol.com Thu Sep 12 13:14:12 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: MasPar, anyone? Message-ID: <60F34183.307073E8.001A265C@aol.com> You know, I should look through my old stuff more before posting. The company I was thinking of in my earlier post may have been MassComp, not MasPar. Though you say MasPar had a DEC connection, I believe MassComp was actually located in MA. Anyway, we got another great story from someone who really understands computers. Someone should take all of these types of stories from this list and write a pre-quel to the popular Hacker books, about how a lot of computer system really got born. From jfrim at idirect.com Thu Sep 12 13:14:28 2002 From: jfrim at idirect.com (Justin Frim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Reveal external CD-ROM Message-ID: $20 to anyone who can find me an MS-DOS driver for a Reveal external 2X CD-ROM drive, model CD 610, FCC ID: 138-EXT-CDROMSLM Specifics: ISA controller card: Reveal Computer Products Inc, V1.2, FCC ID: 138-MMCD861 CD-ROM drive: Matsushita-Kotobuki Electronics Industries Ltd, model CD-563-B, FCC ID: IUO9TB008CRB DIP switch information for switch bank SW1 on the controller card would also be useful. BTW, I'm not really offering $20... just gratitude. But that's priceless, right? ;) And if anyone's wondering why I'd want to use such an old peripheral, it's because it's going on a dedicated network server I'm setting up (FTP, HTTP, SMTP, NAT, Socks5, and DHCP). The server only needs a CD-ROM for two things: #1, installing the operating system (Win32. Don't laugh. I'm no UNIX pro) and software distributed by CD (this is a one-time thing). #2, providing an "online CD of the week" available for download by FTP and HTTP (the bottleneck will be in the server's internet connection bandwidth anyways, not the CD-ROM speed) From vance at neurotica.com Thu Sep 12 13:14:38 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > "REAL computers are too big to be on casters"? > > Are you saying my ES/9000 isn't a real computer? It rides on casters... > > 24 of them. > > I guess that with a couple dozen casters, you can make ANY computer > "portable". The only problem is that if you hit a hill, you're in *big* trouble. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Thu Sep 12 13:14:49 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > "REAL computers are too big to be on casters"? > > > Are you saying my ES/9000 isn't a real computer? It rides on casters... > > > 24 of them. > > > > I guess that with a couple dozen casters, you can make ANY computer > ^^^^^^^ > I'd probably add ramps and/or elevators to that list. It's a REAL pain > moving 'real' computers down stairs, or up stairs for that matter. If you tried to move my ES/9000 on a ramp, you would probably die a quick death. Unless, of course you had a lot of help. Peace... Sridhar From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Sep 12 13:22:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020910084822.477f83d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020912183413.GA260@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Fred Cisin (XenoSoft), from writings of Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 05:46:25PM -0700: > Q: Where did Osama get the idea? Who and when first came up > with the idea of flying a plane into the WTC? > > A: More than a dozen years ago: > http://www.xenosoft.com/BLAME.JPG Ok, now we know who else may have masterminded this. Unfortunately, the U.S. government has spent vast sums of money bombing those it thinks, or wants us to think, are responsible, so that the average citizen will believe that Uncle Sam is doing something to stop terrorism (non-U.S. government sponsored terrorism, that is), while giving itself an excuse to take away more civil liberties and otherwise do more to curtail freedom. Doesn't it make one wonder if anyone in the World Trade Center was working on anything that posed a threat to the Mickeysoft Empire? Hmmm, and to think how much the present administration wants to protect Mickeysoft... ...at any cost? Which one of our politicians was rumored to have said something along the lines of: "Freedom and Liberty are of little importance when compared to corporate profitability"? Hmmm.... ok, perhaps it was more than one of our politicrats, or, more likely, most of them. Oops, I forgot Ashcroft's spooks might be reading this... -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 12 13:22:26 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Please guys. With the exception of watching some of the memorials early in the day, I spent all of yesterday mostly trying to avoid the September 11 talk. The last place I expect to get it is here. I've watched/read the news, I've seen the documentaries on the WTC on The History Channel and The Learning Channel, I know more about it than I need to by now. If you want to discuss it, please go find one of the gazillion discussion groups on the web that are talking about it right now. Let's get back to old computers ;) On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Actually the plane damaged the structure but the redundant supports held it > up, the heat of the fire is what killed the redundant supports and they > collapsed. It was the combination of the ramming/crash and the fire that did > what it did. I don't think the planners of the attack expected the collapse > to happen either. > > -> -----Original Message----- > -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > -> Behalf Of Ben Franchuk > -> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:42 AM > -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > -> Subject: Re: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? > > -> A few years ago I read that a supertanker like that would have the > -> power of a small nuke. It is the fire not the explosion that causes > -> damage in the cities. Remember that the FIRE not the plane crash > -> that damaged the WTC. > -> > -> > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 12 13:26:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: OT - Warren Zevon Message-ID: I think Warren Zevon has come up here a couple times. I figured I'd let any fans that don't already know, know the bad news. I know my day is ruined now. Zane September 12, 2002 Warren Zevon has inoperable cancer Sep. 12, 2002 "Werewolves of London" rocker Warren Zevon, the singer-songwriter whose satire, cynicism and wit went on display in the 1978 album "Excitable Boy," has been diagnosed with inoperable lung cancer, his publicist said Thursday. Zevon, 55, was told of the terminal diagnosis last month by doctors and he is spending time with his grown children, spokeswoman Diana Baron said. The entertainer lives in Los Angeles. "He has been diagnosed with lung cancer which has advanced to an untreatable stage," she said, adding he's writing and recording as many songs as possible and will be in the recording studio next week. Zevon said in a statement, "I'm OK with it, but it'll be a drag if I don't make it till the next James Bond movie comes out." (AP) -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 13:56:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: <3D80B8AD.8050105@bestweb.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912143307.10e7f01c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:54 AM 9/12/02 -0400, you wrote: >One could be in even worse taste and observe that Microsoft, once again, >missed their target. > >I expect the concept of crashing aircraft into things goes way back. >There was the small private plane (Cessna or similar) that crashed into >the White House (causing little or no damage; it didn't have enough >explosive or flamable material to do anything). During WWII there were >the kamakazi (sp?) pilots attacking our Pacific Fleet. In fact, the >general concept goes back even before aircraft. Think about Roman ships >ramming opposition ships in battle. That goes back far beyond the Romans. And I don't think those were intended to be suicide attacks. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 13:56:17 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912143611.10e7ce1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:23 PM 9/12/02 -0400, you wrote: > I always felt that the name "Homeland Security" reeks of Nazi Germany. >"Homeland" is not a term we Americans use much, and it feels wrong. >"Internal Security" sounds too Russian. They just need to retask the IRS. >They've already got all the spies, informants, SWAT teams and databases they >need to do the job, right? No, they won't use the IRS. They'll use Bush's new SUPER Agency. I think the name for it is going to be "Gestapo"! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 13:56:27 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912143716.10e74cac@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:36 AM 9/12/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: >> > Q: Where did Osama get the idea? Who and when first came up >> > with the idea of flying a plane into the WTC? >> > A: More than a dozen years ago: >> > http://www.xenosoft.com/BLAME.JPG >> >> We should launch a pre-emptive strike against Redmond!! > >All that I ask is that we make Bill Gates into a millionaire. Do you mean take away 99.9% of his money? Poor guy! Joe > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 13:56:41 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020912115328.05523ea0@pc> References: <3D80B8AD.8050105@bestweb.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912145457.10e7637c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:53 AM 9/12/02 -0500, you wrote: >At 09:39 AM 9/12/2002 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >>But I think that the 1989 Flight Simulator is the FIRST reference to >>planes with the WTC. > >When they built the WTC, the builders and planners were quite aware of >its potential as a terrorist target. I don't think they were actually considering a terrorist act when they were designing the WTC. What they were considering was an accidental crash such as the bomber that crashed into the Empire State building in 1945. They did consider the effects of a plane crash but they were considering the effects of a 707 (the largest plane at that time) and not a fully loaded 767. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 13:56:54 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: HP Protocol Analyzers In-Reply-To: <20020912165705.26953.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020911181928.42b7eb4a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912144217.10e7874c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:57 AM 9/12/02 -0700, you wrote: > >--- Joe wrote: >> Ethan, >> >> At 09:02 AM 9/11/02 -0700, I wrote: >> > >> >--- "J.C. Wren" wrote: >> >> I acquired a pair of HP-4952A protocol analyzers... >> > >> >I have a pair of portable HP protocol analyzers (...4951A and 4951B) >> >> I have a 4951. It uses the same tapes as the HP-85, HP 9825, etc. IIRC >> they're DC-100 tapes and you can use the same (40MB?) tapes that were >> used in PCs. > >Really? Didn't know the PC tapes would work in the older drives. Given >that the storage capacity of a DECtape and an old PC backup tape are >so wildly different, I didn't assume the media was compatible even if >the shell would fit in the drive. You have to reformat them but yes, the OLD PC tapes work fine in the HPs. > >> You can also reformat and use DECTapes. > >Right. That's what my boss used to do. I have plenty of 4951-formatted >DECtapes to last me a while (5-10, IIRC). Just be carefull who you tell about that. The DECheads get real sensative to anybody putting DEc stuff to REAL work. :-) > >> But check your drive first, you'll probably find that it has the same >> problems (melted tape drive roller) as the HPs usually do. > >That's a common problem with all these drives. I've already replaced >the melted rubber in one TU-58 with tygon tubing. I can do it again. > >Last time I checked (six months ago), the 4951s hadn't melted yet. > >> My 4951 is in storage but I'm pretty sure that there's a operators >> manual with it. > >I have a operator's manual somewhere, too. I'd _really_ love to lay my >hands on a maintenance manual. Me too. I have an option board in mine that had batteries on it that leaked and some of the surface mount parts fell off. I'd like to get a schematic and fix it. Fortunatly the machine works fine without it. I got the machine dirt cheap because of the battery damage and all I had to do to make it work was to unplug that card. Joe > >-ethan > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! News - Today's headlines >http://news.yahoo.com > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 13:57:15 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912143110.42f7c43e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:51 AM 9/12/02 -0700, Sellam wrote: >On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >> Q: Where did Osama get the idea? Who and when first came up >> with the idea of flying a plane into the WTC? >> >> A: More than a dozen years ago: >> http://www.xenosoft.com/BLAME.JPG > >We should launch a pre-emptive strike against Redmond!! I think it's already too late! Joe From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Sep 12 13:58:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: <20020912165159.26266.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.2.32.20020911223739.01241670@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020912145702.0124199c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 09:51 AM 9/12/02 -0700, you wrote: >> That would be the trickiest part... I think that I should >> try wiring the DE9 directly to a 4wire phone cable; it is easier >> to find a phone cable than a female DIN8. > >That won't work. The LocalTalk/PhoneNet adapters are not passthrus. >Apple LocalTalk adapters contain self-terminating connectors (the >plastic pip in the end of the cable pushes on a switch that disengages >the internal terminator; PhoneNet adapters use RJ-11s with >external terminators), and both adapters contain at least a transformer, >IIRC to couple the Mac to the network. There might also be a resistor >or two in the adapter. I haven't opened up one in over 10 years. >If you have a spare adapter you wish to sacrifice, you could cut the >DIN-8 off and install a DE-9 instead. If you had enough cable, you >could take the DIN-8 pigtail and put a matching DE-9 on _that_ so you >could recombine the two pieces if you needed it for its original use. Guys, after all of your comments, I had no choice but to crack open a Farallon adapter. Indeed, there is a pulse isolation transformer inside, Farallon part no. HK 9418K. I think that the transformer is wired up to cancel local listening (as in phones). Makes sense so that you can detect collisions. So, can I now go and assume that the DE9 in the Shiva Fastpath has the same pinout as the older serial connectors in the original mac and the Mac512K? regards, carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From mythtech at mac.com Thu Sep 12 14:29:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box Message-ID: >So, can I now go and assume that the DE9 in the Shiva Fastpath has the >same pinout as the older serial connectors in the original mac and the >Mac512K? Unless they used some special Shiva only adaptor (which is HIGHLY doubtful), then yes, you can make that assumption. There were only two styles of Localtalk connectors for connecting to computers, the DE-9 (used by old Macs, PCs, repeaters, and hubs/routers/bridges) and the mini-din 8 (used by most Macs, printers, and some hubs/routers/bridges). In both cases, the pinout was a standard, so if you can find the pinouts for the mac's din 8 serial port and the old mac's DE9 serial port, it should be trivial to make up an adaptor. -chris From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Sep 12 14:49:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: from chris at "Sep 12, 2 03:29:33 pm" Message-ID: <200209121958.MAA21040@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > In both cases, the pinout was a standard, so if you can find the pinouts > for the mac's din 8 serial port and the old mac's DE9 serial port, it > should be trivial to make up an adaptor. Dayna made one. Alas, my only converter is in use at the moment. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Know what I hate most? Rhetorical questions. -- Henry N. Camp ------------- From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Sep 12 15:22:01 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000/240 Message-ID: <3D80F6C5.D2086C44@gifford.co.uk> I've recently acquired a DECstation 5000/240, a MIPS-based workstation made in 1992. I've got it to respond to the serial console (by removing the frame buffer card) and now I want to try to net-boot it. However, the console PROM is version KN03-AA V5.1b, which is too old to boot via tftp. Version KN03-AA V5.2b would be OK. Now, does anyone know if I can upgrade the console PROM somehow? If so, how? I do have an EPROM programmer, of course! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Sep 12 15:26:01 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Broken mouse! - fixed References: <3D805A2B.7070601@aconit.org> <20020912112147.GA13959@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3D809CE1.5080001@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3D80F7BC.703BEE51@gifford.co.uk> Hans B Pufal wrote: > After taking the mouse apart, I realised that my original diagnostic was > incorrect. It only has one LED, the other "LED" is actually a sensor. I'm wondering if this is actually like a Sun mouse, and that second "LED" is an infra-red one. The Sun mice have both LED and sensor behind a completely spherical lens, one for X and another for Y position. > The problem turned out to be simple, one of the shperical plastic lenses > had come adrift when the mouse was dropped. The first time my friend Beccy saw an optical mouse, she had to find out how it worked, and took it apart. Moments later, two tiny round lenses popped out and rolled away... they're quite hard to find, being transparent! (we did find them again!) -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Sep 12 15:51:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box" (Sep 12, 9:51) References: <20020912165159.26266.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10209122153.ZM3924@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 12, 9:51, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Carlos Murillo wrote: > > >> Now I have another question: How do you connect the Fastpath 4's > > >> DE-9 Localtalk connector to a phonenet network? > > >With a standard (ancient) DE-9<->PhoneNet adapter. Barring that, I > > >have made DIN-8 to DE-9 LocalTalk adapters > > > > >You would need a female DIN-8 connector to go the other way. > > > > That would be the trickiest part... I think that I should > > try wiring the DE9 directly to a 4wire phone cable; it is easier > > to find a phone cable than a female DIN8. > > That won't work. The LocalTalk/PhoneNet adapters are not passthrus. > Apple LocalTalk adapters contain self-terminating connectors (the > plastic pip in the end of the cable pushes on a switch that disengages > the internal terminator; PhoneNet adapters use RJ-11s with > external terminators), and both adapters contain at least a transformer, > IIRC to couple the Mac to the network. There might also be a resistor > or two in the adapter. I haven't opened up one in over 10 years. All the commercial LocalTalk and Phonenet adaptors contain an isolating transformer, which is carefully designed to preserve nice clean square waves from one side of the interface to the other. Note that you can't just use any old small transformer! There's a web page describing the innards at http://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/apple2/MiscInfo/Hardware/appletalk.phonenet It's also commonly believed that the Farallon Phonenet system using unsheilded cable works better than Apple's own grounded shielded cable system. However, I have seen one DIY design that didn't use an isolating transformer. Called CapNet, it was intended for small networks, and used capacitors to acheive some degree of isolation. A slightly updated version was claimed to work with printers and the like. http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/HyperArchive/Abstracts/info/hdwr/at-connector-substitute.txt.txt http://www.loten-am-mac.yucom.be/cap1.htm -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Sep 12 15:57:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: Reveal external CD-ROM References: Message-ID: <000b01c25a9e$ccbd8420$0100000a@deepspacenine> Justin Frim wrote: > $20 to anyone who can find me an MS-DOS driver for a Reveal external > 2X CD-ROM drive, model CD 610, FCC ID: 138-EXT-CDROMSLM > > Specifics: > ISA controller card: Reveal Computer Products Inc, V1.2, FCC ID: > 138-MMCD861 CD-ROM drive: Matsushita-Kotobuki Electronics > Industries Ltd, model CD-563-B, FCC ID: IUO9TB008CRB The Matsushita (Panasonic) CDROM is the same as one I had - IIRC mine was a CR563B. It uses a Panasonic bus - NOT IDE. Most of the controller cards used the same drivers anyway. MKE wrote a driver and everyone went and cloned their card. I'll see if I can find a driver for you. > DIP switch information for switch bank SW1 on the controller card > would also be useful. Probably selects the card address. > BTW, I'm not really offering $20... just gratitude. But that's > priceless, right? ;) Uh-hu..... Riiiiighhttt.... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From lists at subatomix.com Thu Sep 12 16:21:15 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:18 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drive s) In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E9C@BUSH02> References: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E9C@BUSH02> Message-ID: <11316638675.20020912161743@subatomix.com> On Friday, September 6, 2002, Davison, Lee wrote: > > > That's not true. Serial cable can go for a good many feet before > > the signal breaks down (someone should pipe in with actual data ;) > > 450 feet at 9600 bps through multi strand sheilded cable. This was between > two buildings and ran through a drain to get under a road. 19200 bps was > tried but was error prone. dropping the speed to 9600 bps worked. 100 feet at 115200 bps through three unshielded wires, wrapped around a three-foot-tall Jacob's ladder apparatus enclosed in plexiglass. No bit errors. We gave up and decided to build a device to simulate bit errors. -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. From a.krennmair at aon.at Thu Sep 12 16:54:10 2002 From: a.krennmair at aon.at (Andreas Krennmair) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000/240 In-Reply-To: <3D80F6C5.D2086C44@gifford.co.uk> References: <3D80F6C5.D2086C44@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <20020912215417.GA2433@aon.at> * John Honniball [02-09-12 22:28]: > > I've recently acquired a DECstation 5000/240, a MIPS-based workstation > made in 1992. I've got it to respond to the serial console (by > removing the frame buffer card) and now I want to try to net-boot it. Why net-booting? I'm always booting VAXstation (I know, that's different hardware, but from pretty much the same time, and I suppose from the same engineers) via an SCSI CD drive. You need one that works with 512-byte sectors. Fortunately, I have a drive available made by DEC for VAXstations, but I tried it once with another drive we use at work to install old Sun Sparc machines and SGI machines. Regards, Andreas Krennmair -- > will that break anything ? yes, a lot of exploit code. -- Jolan Luff in misc@openbsd.org about non-exec stack in OpenBSD-current From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Sep 12 17:08:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000/240 In-Reply-To: <20020912215417.GA2433@aon.at> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Andreas Krennmair wrote: > * John Honniball [02-09-12 22:28]: > > > > I've recently acquired a DECstation 5000/240, a MIPS-based workstation > > made in 1992. I've got it to respond to the serial console (by > > removing the frame buffer card) and now I want to try to net-boot it. > > Why net-booting? I'm always booting VAXstation (I know, that's different > hardware, but from pretty much the same time, and I suppose from the > same engineers) via an SCSI CD drive. You need one that works with 512-byte > sectors. Fortunately, I have a drive available made by DEC for > VAXstations, but I tried it once with another drive we use at work to > install old Sun Sparc machines and SGI machines. The DS5000/240 has no internal SCSI interface or drive mounts. It's less of a PITA to netboot than to manage external storage, even if you *do* have that proprietary DEC external cable. Doc, who would like a firmware upgrade too. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Sep 12 18:02:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drive s) Message-ID: <200209122302.QAA00740@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jeffrey Sharp" > >On Friday, September 6, 2002, Davison, Lee wrote: >> >> > That's not true. Serial cable can go for a good many feet before >> > the signal breaks down (someone should pipe in with actual data ;) >> >> 450 feet at 9600 bps through multi strand sheilded cable. This was between >> two buildings and ran through a drain to get under a road. 19200 bps was >> tried but was error prone. dropping the speed to 9600 bps worked. > >100 feet at 115200 bps through three unshielded wires, wrapped around a >three-foot-tall Jacob's ladder apparatus enclosed in plexiglass. No bit >errors. We gave up and decided to build a device to simulate bit errors. > Hi Jeffrey What makes you think that wrapped on the outside of a Jacob's ladder has either the right coupling or the right frequency spectrum to effect a RS-232 signal? Arbitrary test like this are not real world test and only impress those that don't understand what it takes to interfer with a particular signaling method. There are books written about how to test for interference. Looking at impressive sparks will sell P.T. Barnum's "one every minute" but not me. The environment I used the RS-485 in had RS-232 running at 4800 baud and was seeing error burst on the order of 1 in every 1000 or so bytes. The lines were not any longer than 20 feet. It was more the type of noise source that was important. One needs to know the right spectrum and how the energy was coupled. I wouldn't have expected the Jacob's ladder connected as you described to have introduced hardly any energy in the right form. Dwight From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Sep 12 18:20:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <3D7A11EF.7070506@tiac.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020904124038.01afc8c0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904150256.01adbc00@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904173738.01ad3cd8@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904175048.01b08ae0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906090505.01b35098@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906125622.01a52570@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020912182009.01ae93b8@ubanproductions.com> Hi Bob, Your work prompted me to spend some time on an assembler for the Imlac and after a couple of nights of work on a brand new program, I can correctly assemble the simple display program. I will get you a copy once I clean up a couple of things. What kind of machine would you like to run it on? --tom From vaxman at earthlink.net Thu Sep 12 18:22:01 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Heathkit ET-3200 digital trainer on EBay Message-ID: BIN $25 From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Sep 12 18:30:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000/240 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Andreas Krennmair wrote: > > > * John Honniball [02-09-12 22:28]: > > > > > > I've recently acquired a DECstation 5000/240, a MIPS-based workstation > > > made in 1992. I've got it to respond to the serial console (by > > > removing the frame buffer card) and now I want to try to net-boot it. > > > > Why net-booting? I'm always booting VAXstation (I know, that's different > > hardware, but from pretty much the same time, and I suppose from the > > same engineers) via an SCSI CD drive. You need one that works with 512-byte > > sectors. Fortunately, I have a drive available made by DEC for > > VAXstations, but I tried it once with another drive we use at work to > > install old Sun Sparc machines and SGI machines. > > The DS5000/240 has no internal SCSI interface or drive mounts. It's > less of a PITA to netboot than to manage external storage, even if you > *do* have that proprietary DEC external cable. Actually unlike the DS3100 and VS3100, the DS5000/240 has a standard SCSI-2 external drive connector... > > Doc, who would like a firmware upgrade too. > > Peter Wallace From cbajpai at attbi.com Thu Sep 12 18:35:01 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020912182009.01ae93b8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <000401c25ab4$f5769e40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> How about a simulator for the rest of us Imlac-less folks? :-) -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Uban Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 7:23 PM To: Bob Shannon Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... Hi Bob, Your work prompted me to spend some time on an assembler for the Imlac and after a couple of nights of work on a brand new program, I can correctly assemble the simple display program. I will get you a copy once I clean up a couple of things. What kind of machine would you like to run it on? --tom From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 12 19:11:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Broken mouse! In-Reply-To: <3D805A2B.7070601@aconit.org> from "Hans B Pufal" at Sep 12, 2 11:11:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 843 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020912/6f5bb90f/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Sep 12 19:12:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000/240 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > The DS5000/240 has no internal SCSI interface or drive mounts. It's > > less of a PITA to netboot than to manage external storage, even if you > > *do* have that proprietary DEC external cable. > > Actually unlike the DS3100 and VS3100, the DS5000/240 has a standard SCSI-2 > external drive connector... Well, shut-my-mouth. The horrible thing about THAT mistake is that it's only been a couple of months since I had mine running. With external drives attached. Thanks, Peter. I gotta go wash the egg off my face now.... Doc, who still wants the firmware upgrade From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Sep 12 19:14:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: MasPar, anyone? Message-ID: Scratch "may have" and replace with "was"... Masscomp, or Massachusetts Computer Corporation, made multibus machines running RTU (Real Time UNIX). Not really sure why Perki-Data bought them (thats the common term for Perkin-Elmer Data Systems, since that was really Interdata after being bought by P-E).. Then they spun all the computer stuff off as Concurrent Computer Corp., who at some point accquired Harris's computer division also.. I have an Interdata and multiple P-E/Concurrents... Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From archer at topnow.com Thu Sep 12 19:39:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? References: Message-ID: <3D8133D5.D1BDD2D@topnow.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > > > In the book Prometheus (sp?) they load a large freighter with > > Ammonium Nitrade (with the right additives) then stack the deck with > > tons of Magnesium ingots and then expode the whole thing in the port in > > the capital of a South American country. The effect is like that of an > > atomic bomb (anybody remember what happened in Texas City?) PLUS the > > flaming magnesium fell for miles outside the blast area and created > > thousands of fires that combine to form a fire storm. (Remember Toyko in > > early 1945? The fire storms killed more people than both of the atomic > > bombs.) > > You guys had better be careful discussing all these terror attack > scenarios in public. Pretty soon we'll have Asscroft breathing down our > necks. > > (I'm being half serious.) Just remember: 1) Stop asking Questions or you will be Indefinitely Detained until the War is Over (see #4). 2) Surrender All your Freedoms, or the Terrorists will Win! 3) Know your neighbor. Spy on him as often as possible. 4) War without End, Amen. This message brought to you as a public service by the Office of Homeland Security, which reminds you: "shut your big subversive mouth or Else." > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Sep 12 20:09:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <000401c25ab4$f5769e40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020912182009.01ae93b8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020912201221.01b27470@ubanproductions.com> Patience... --tom At 07:34 PM 9/12/2002 -0400, you wrote: >How about a simulator for the rest of us Imlac-less folks? :-) > >-Chandra > > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Tom Uban >Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 7:23 PM >To: Bob Shannon >Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... > >Hi Bob, > >Your work prompted me to spend some time on an assembler for the Imlac >and after a couple of nights of work on a brand new program, I can >correctly >assemble the simple display program. > >I will get you a copy once I clean up a couple of things. What kind of >machine >would you like to run it on? > >--tom From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 20:13:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: paging Bruce Lane Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912211144.50a7693c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bruce, I tried to reply to you but the reply bounced. See below. Can you give me another address? Joe ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 550 RR.com netspace: Access denied due to ongoing spamming.) From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Sep 12 20:17:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: HP Protocol Analyzers In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020912144217.10e7874c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020911181928.42b7eb4a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020912144217.10e7874c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <4974.4.20.168.154.1031879889.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >>> I have a 4951. It uses the same tapes as the HP-85, HP 9825, etc. >>> IIRC >>> they're DC-100 tapes and you can use the same (40MB?) tapes that were >>> used in PCs. >> >>Really? Didn't know the PC tapes would work in the older drives. >>Given that the storage capacity of a DECtape and an old PC backup tape >>are so wildly different, I didn't assume the media was compatible even >>if the shell would fit in the drive. > > You have to reformat them but yes, the OLD PC tapes work fine in the > HPs. I'd be somewhat surprised. I thought there were some mechanical differences between DC100 cartridges (HP and DEC) and DC2000 cartridges (40 MB & up, found on PCs and Macs in the 80s). >>> You can also reformat and use DECTapes. >> >>Right. That's what my boss used to do. I have plenty of >>4951-formatted DECtapes to last me a while (5-10, IIRC). > > Just be carefull who you tell about that. The DECheads get real > sensative to anybody putting DEc stuff to REAL work. :-) I've got quite a few reels of DECtape, and I can't imagine how you could possibly jam them into a cartridge tape slot, nor how they could be expected to do anything useful if you di. Presumably the tapes in question are TU58 tapes, which are unfortunately known as "DECtape II". Anyhow, the big problem with reformatting them for use on other systems is that there is no known way to format them back into TU58 tapes if you ever need any. :-( And I could definitely use some TU58 tapes, but not if they've been formatted into something else. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Sep 12 20:18:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? References: <3D8133D5.D1BDD2D@topnow.com> Message-ID: <000f01c25ac3$74570de0$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" > 1) Stop asking Questions or you will be Indefinitely > Detained > until the War is Over (see #4). > 2) Surrender All your Freedoms, > or the Terrorists will Win! > 3) Know your neighbor. Spy on him as often as possible. > 4) War without End, Amen. > > This message brought to you as a public > service by the Office of Homeland Security, > which reminds you: "shut your big subversive mouth > or Else." We have always been at war with Oceana. War is Peace I Love Big Brother This message brought to you by the Ministry of Truth. From blstuart at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 12 20:18:11 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Anybody know anything about the TI TMS 32010 DSP chip? In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:01:29 -0400 . <200209121501.g8CF1Tdj016517@ns2.i16.net> Message-ID: In message <200209121501.g8CF1Tdj016517@ns2.i16.net>, jbdigriz@dragonsweb.org w rites: >Joe wrote .. >> I picked up a machine (TI TDS) that I thought was a developement system >> and it has a TMS 32010 pod on it. >> >> Joe > >I'm only vaguely familiar with the system with the separate 32010 pod. There w >as the original TMS32010 EVM that has the DSP, TMS9995 host processor, dual s >erial ports, audio tape interface, EPROM programming socket, and a 40-pin emul >ation cable. This would be part number RTC/EVM320A-03. Been looking for one, w >ith software, for some time. We used to have one of those when I worked for Tellabs. What I remember most was the sound of the fan spinning up. It was one of the loudest and most impressive fans I've ever heard on a box that could sit on a lab bench. We nicknamed it our nuclear reactor. Brian L. Stuart From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 12 20:19:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drive s) In-Reply-To: <200209122302.QAA00740@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20020913011940.23007.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > >From: "Jeffrey Sharp" > > > >100 feet at 115200 bps through three unshielded wires, wrapped around a > >three-foot-tall Jacob's ladder apparatus enclosed in plexiglass. No bit > >errors. We gave up and decided to build a device to simulate bit errors. > > > > Hi Jeffrey > What makes you think that wrapped on the outside of a Jacob's > ladder has either the right coupling or the right frequency > spectrum to effect a RS-232 signal? Arbitrary test like this are > not real world test and only impress those that don't understand > what it takes to interfer with a particular signaling method. That's why they built this device I have - a BERT - Bit Error Rate Tester(?) You hook two serial devices to it and crank the knobs to inject errors. It can insert as few as 1 error per 1E06 bits passed through, IIRC. It's excellent for testing error recovery schemes, V.whatever as well as those in the protocol stacks. We used it for testing our Bisync products for proper packet retranmission behavior on noisy lines. i.e. - to verify that we implemented the HASP protocol correctly (since one of our advertised features was that our HASP engine did all the error detection/retransmission, presenting clean blocks of data to the PDP-11/VAX, reducing its overhead). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 12 20:24:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: <10209122153.ZM3924@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020913012430.23341.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Sep 12, 9:51, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Carlos Murillo wrote: > > > > >> Now I have another question: How do you connect the Fastpath 4's > > > >> DE-9 Localtalk connector to a phonenet network? > > > > >With a standard (ancient) DE-9<->PhoneNet adapter. Barring that, I > > > >have made DIN-8 to DE-9 LocalTalk adapters > > All the commercial LocalTalk and Phonenet adaptors contain an isolating > transformer, which is carefully designed to preserve nice clean square > waves from one side of the interface to the other. Note that you can't > just use any old small transformer! There's a web page describing the > innards at > > http://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/apple2/MiscInfo/Hardware/appletalk.phonenet Perfect! Just the sort of page I knew existed somewhere... here's a helpful table from it: And here are the serial connections from page A-4 of "Inside Appletalk" Second Edition: Wire Sig MiniDIN-8 DE-9 ------------------------------------- Red TxD- pin 3 pin 5 Blu RxD- pin 5 pin 9 Wht RxD+ pin 8 pin 8 Grn TxD+ pin 6 pin 4 GND Case Shield Shield That's the information you need to make a MiniDIN-8 to DE-9 adapter like the one sitting next to me (I really didn't want to have to pull it and whip out the continuity tester; I *knew* this was not hard-to-get information). The comment that page makes about hooking Apple's cable scheme to Farallon's is absolutely true. My mother's network had a satin cable with an Apple connector on one end, and an RJ-11 on the other to bridge the two wiring schemes. I did not make it. She did not make it. AFAIK, she bought it from Farallon. Thanks for the excellent link, Pete. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 12 20:27:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) In-Reply-To: <001e01c25a78$a0bb4cc0$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 12, 2 05:22:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1699 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020912/098852cd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 12 20:27:13 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Broken mouse! - fixed In-Reply-To: <3D80F7BC.703BEE51@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Sep 12, 2 09:23:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 689 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020912/1c94525f/attachment.ksh From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Sep 12 20:37:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: My collection (Pictures!) Message-ID: <005601c25ac6$1eb75130$3200a8c0@winnt> I've posted some pictures of the major pieces of my collection at http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu . Shown are the HP9000/832, PDP-8/E, and PDP-11/24. Not shown are the Commodore 64, the Sun SparcClassic, the Macintosh SE, or the Tandy 100 Portable. From djenner at earthlink.net Thu Sep 12 21:09:12 2002 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Turbo Pascal Toolbox: Numerical Methods Message-ID: <3D8148BE.14AEA322@earthlink.net> In rummaging through the storage closet, I found most of my old Turbo Pascal (for DOS) floppies, but I didn't find those for the Turbo Pascal Toolbox: Numerical Methods, Version 4.0, IBM Version (1987). I found the book, and it says that there are three floppies, which are probably 5.25" 360KB disks. So, does anyone have copies of these disks they'd be willing to part with or share with a bona fide owner? Thanks, Dave -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Sep 12 21:26:03 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Univac rescue Message-ID: I bet my 4381 weighs more... Scariest experience with it is a tie between it teetering on the liftgate, and when it rolled away toward someone's car in the parking lot... Thankfully I managed to steer it away, barely! Will J _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From allain at panix.com Thu Sep 12 21:28:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? References: <3D8133D5.D1BDD2D@topnow.com> Message-ID: <003d01c25acd$3f424b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> (Remember Toyko in early 1945? (nope: I was -13yo > 1) Stop asking Questions or you will be Indefinitely Detained There's probably a good story here, but one that I personally haven't lived... For those of us who shop at Hamfests, you may have heard that owning and operating certain types of legal radio equipment before WWII apparently became illegal after it started. John A. Freedon and Security are both important to have, but you can't have 100% of both at the same time. From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Sep 12 21:35:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: OT - Warren Zevon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020913024744.GB260@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Zane H. Healy, from writings of Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 11:26:18AM -0700: > I think Warren Zevon has come up here a couple times. I figured I'd let > any fans that don't already know, know the bad news. I know my day is > ruined now. :-( That is indeed sad news. Just the other night, they were playing "Werewolves of London" on the radio---I just had to crank it up and get strange looks from people in other cars stopped at stoplights as I sang along with the windows open; a true classic, and one of my favorites (it helps to have a long beard and perhaps look a bit more like a wolfman when singing this!). Hopefully he can prove his physicians wrong, and somehow turn around and make a recovery. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From kenziem at sympatico.ca Thu Sep 12 21:42:01 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020913024303.JGEK4068.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Thursday 12 September 2002 03:51, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Q: Where did Osama get the idea? Who and when first came up > > with the idea of flying a plane into the WTC? > > > > A: More than a dozen years ago: > > http://www.xenosoft.com/BLAME.JPG > > We should launch a pre-emptive strike against Redmond!! Could al queda be operatives of the BSA Was someone in the WTC running something other than NT? Does Sadam have a licenced copy of XP on his machine? From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Sep 12 21:59:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: <3D8133D5.D1BDD2D@topnow.com> References: <3D8133D5.D1BDD2D@topnow.com> Message-ID: <20020913031136.GC260@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Ross Archer, from writings of Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 05:39:49PM -0700: > > scenarios in public. Pretty soon we'll have Asscroft breathing down our > > necks. Scr*w him... [...] > > (I'm being half serious.) Many a true word has been spoken in jest. > This message brought to you as a public > service by the Office of Homeland Security, > which reminds you: "shut your big subversive mouth > or Else." \ |//////> 'em as well! :-) This is the U.S.A. (or is it the / U.S.S.A. :-( ?), not the 4th Reich. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Sep 12 22:16:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Illegal Possession of Controlled Devices (was: IN BAD TASTE...) In-Reply-To: <003d01c25acd$3f424b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3D8133D5.D1BDD2D@topnow.com> <003d01c25acd$3f424b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20020913033526.GD260@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Allain, from writings of Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 10:28:28PM -0400: > There's probably a good story here, but one that I personally > haven't lived... For those of us who shop at Hamfests, you > may have heard that owning and operating certain types of legal > radio equipment before WWII apparently became illegal after it started. Illegal to own it? Zog! When are we going to start hearing that owning computers with mass storage devices, computers designed to use mass storage devices, or mass storage devices, are illegal acts? How soon before the illegal posession of "controlled devices" will be as serious, or more serious, a crime as the illegal posession of "controlled substances?" Next, it will be illegal (or at least easier to get caught... it's probably already illegal) to open up one's cable TV converter box to check for hidden microphones and cameras. How long before we're all going to have to begin using "internet appliances" so that we can't do subversive things like keeping backups of our own data? Will it soon become a federal felony to use computers that aren't connected to the Internet all of the time so that they can be spied on at any time? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 22:26:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: SGI, er, ah, CDC Indigo Re: Broken mouse! In-Reply-To: <20020912112147.GA13959@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <3D805A2B.7070601@aconit.org> <3D805A2B.7070601@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912231206.450f72c6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:21 PM 9/12/02 +0200, you wrote: >On Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 11:11:07AM +0200, Hans B Pufal wrote: > >> It is for a CDC Cyber 910 workstation, >Isn't that a relabled SGI Indigo R3000? I think that you're thinking of the CDC 9100. Here's a picture Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 22:26:20 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: HP Protocol Analyzers In-Reply-To: <4974.4.20.168.154.1031879889.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020912144217.10e7874c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020911181928.42b7eb4a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020912144217.10e7874c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912232840.44bfec7e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:18 PM 9/12/02 -0700, you wrote: >>>> I have a 4951. It uses the same tapes as the HP-85, HP 9825, etc. >>>> IIRC >>>> they're DC-100 tapes and you can use the same (40MB?) tapes that were >>>> used in PCs. >>> >>>Really? Didn't know the PC tapes would work in the older drives. >>>Given that the storage capacity of a DECtape and an old PC backup tape >>>are so wildly different, I didn't assume the media was compatible even >>>if the shell would fit in the drive. >> >> You have to reformat them but yes, the OLD PC tapes work fine in the >> HPs. > >I'd be somewhat surprised. I thought there were some mechanical >differences between DC100 cartridges (HP and DEC) and DC2000 cartridges >(40 MB & up, found on PCs and Macs in the 80s). There are differences between the DC 100 and DC 2000 tapes. That why I said to get the ***OLD*** 40Mb tapes such as used by the IRWIN tape drives. They are DC-100. A couple of years ago you could find loads of them surplus but now most of what I find are DC 2000 tapes. The most obvious difference is the width of the tape and the thickness of the plastic cartridge. > >>>> You can also reformat and use DECTapes. >>> >>>Right. That's what my boss used to do. I have plenty of >>>4951-formatted DECtapes to last me a while (5-10, IIRC). >> >> Just be carefull who you tell about that. The DECheads get real >> sensative to anybody putting DEc stuff to REAL work. :-) > >I've got quite a few reels of DECtape, and I can't imagine how you >could possibly jam them into a cartridge tape slot, nor how they could >be expected to do anything useful if you di. > >Presumably the tapes in question are TU58 tapes, which are unfortunately >known as "DECtape II". You're probably right. I have used any of them in several years. > >Anyhow, the big problem with reformatting them for use on other systems >is that there is no known way to format them back into TU58 tapes if >you ever need any. :-( Did anyone ever tell you that a tape in the hand is worth two in the bush? :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 12 22:28:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Obsolecence (Was RE: OT: PC Motherboard with a vacuum tube) In-Reply-To: References: <003601c2582b$f25e4ea0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020912233145.450f9a80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:43 PM 9/9/02 -0400, Sridhar wrote: >On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > >> > Posessing a decoder not "authorized" by the MPAA >> > so that you can watch your *own property* on some OS which the MPAA & >> > friends felt was beneath their dignity to port to should /not/ be a >> > crime. >> Finally! Someone who shares my opinion :-) >> I'm not buying a DVDROM for my PC due to region coding - if I want to buy a >> DVD in the 'States to watch here in the UK, I'll go ahead and do it. > >There are ways around region coding. Keep talking. I'm all ears. Joe From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Sep 12 23:55:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: <10209122153.ZM3924@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <20020912165159.26266.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020913005325.013f25f8@pop1.epm.net.co> At 08:53 PM 9/12/02 GMT, you wrote: >All the commercial LocalTalk and Phonenet adaptors contain an isolating >transformer, which is carefully designed to preserve nice clean square >waves from one side of the interface to the other. Note that you can't >just use any old small transformer! There's a web page describing the >innards at > >http://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/apple2/MiscInfo/Hardware/appletalk.phonenet -snip- Thanks Pete! Excellent links. By the way, I had found an apple PDF file documenting most ports, but the serial mini DIN8 connector shown in page 2 seems to be have the wrong pin numbering; according to my own measurements, pin 4 is actually closer to pin 3 than to pin 5; if the pins were numbered in right to left, bottom-up order the picture would be right: http://www.apple.com.pl/infotech/varia/Ports/Ports_Pinouts.pdf (2MB download) The document that you referenced shows a numbering that is in accord with my own measurements. A case of an official document being wrong and a hobbyist-produced document being right. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Sep 12 23:59:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: <20020913012430.23341.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <10209122153.ZM3924@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020913005655.013feabc@pop1.epm.net.co> I thought I should post the url of a good resource for older Macs that I found: http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/ carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Sep 13 00:08:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? References: <3D8133D5.D1BDD2D@topnow.com> <000f01c25ac3$74570de0$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <3D8172DF.40805@eoni.com> We're at war with Oceana??? Does this mean that, when I chat with an acquaintance in New Zealand, I'm "consorting with the enemy"? Oh no!!! He's a geologist. I'll bet he's just trying to get the secret locations of the U.S. basalt hoard out of me... I'll never tell! My lips are sealed. We got 1984... Just eighteen years late... Jim Christopher McNabb wrote: > > > We have always been at war with Oceana. > War is Peace > I Love Big Brother > > This message brought to you by the Ministry of Truth. > > > > . > From mhscc at canada.com Fri Sep 13 00:10:00 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Cromemco Z80 Assembler manual (was: Cromemco 64KZ Info Needed) Message-ID: <000801c25ae4$09fb4260$5b4a3dcf@msed03> As a matter of fact, I do, but it's 206 pages... write me off-list & we'll see what we can do. mike -------Original Message------- From: "Douglas Wood" To: Subject: Re: Cromemco 64KZ Info Needed Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:01:38 -0500 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Any chance you have a copy of Cromemco's Macro Assembler for Z80 user manual? Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC and SX http://epicis.piclist.com From hansp at aconit.org Fri Sep 13 00:11:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Broken mouse! - fixed References: <3D805A2B.7070601@aconit.org> <20020912112147.GA13959@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3D809CE1.5080001@aconit.org> <3D80F7BC.703BEE51@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3D817385.20601@aconit.org> John Honniball wrote: > Hans B Pufal wrote: > >>After taking the mouse apart, I realised that my original diagnostic was >>incorrect. It only has one LED, the other "LED" is actually a sensor. > I'm wondering if this is actually like a Sun mouse, and that second > "LED" is an infra-red one. The Sun mice have both LED and sensor > behind a completely spherical lens, one for X and another for Y > position. Externally it is identical to a Sun mouse, but the electronics and the cabling is different (at least for the one example of the Sun mouse I disassembled. The proinciple of operation is the same,- one LED and one sensor. The MSC part number for the Sun mouse :401162-035/D is the same as for the CDC one except for the suffix after the hyphen. I suspect the suffix changes depending on the connection type and also probably the version of the electronics. Mouse Systems made these mice for many years and for many OEM's. > The first time my friend Beccy saw an optical mouse, she had to > find out how it worked, and took it apart. Moments later, two tiny > round lenses popped out and rolled away... they're quite hard to > find, being transparent! Indeed, luckily mine stayed inside the mouse and were quickly recaptured. -- Hans From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Fri Sep 13 00:20:07 2002 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3520 (was: Re: MasPar, anyone?) Message-ID: <01KMFIJ1DHMW8Y6KDT@cc.usu.edu> Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2002.09.11 08:18 Roger Ivie wrote: > > They used the VAXstation 3520 because they got a real good deal on > > them from DEC, who was anxious to sell the thing. I designed the > > interface between the 3520 and the MasPar which, AFAIK, was the > > only 3rd party interface done for the 3520's proprietary MBUS. > Du you still have access to doc about the VAXstation 3520 and its MBUS? > NetBSD on a VS 3520 or 3540 would be so nice as NetBSD VAX supports SMP > for more than a year now... I do have some docs. The stuff I have is mostly hardware oriented; it talks about the bus protocol more than the registers and console firmware implementation, which is what you would be interested in. However, I'm in the process of moving, so I'm not sure what box it would be in. I also don't know what the NetBSD group's attitude toward underground document shipments is; I acquired the stuff under NDA and was probably supposed to destroy it when the project was over. If someone had a good way to anonymously donate sensitive documents to the NetBSD project, I might have several they would be interested in. Or perhaps not. It may be the case that I could put my hands on a copy of the MSCP spec, for instance. Or maybe I just talk big and don't actually have that sort of stuff lying around. I definitely may or may not have a copy of the SOC CPU spec, which could (or could not) be interesting to the 4000/VLC crowd. I could even have interesting and unusual pieces of hardware, such as a couple of rtVAX400s if such things exist, but they don't, so I clearly must not have any. Definitely not 3 of them. Not that it would matter; if they did exist, there would probably be a nasty bug in the ASIC anyway. Or maybe not. > tsch??, > Jochen Aufwiederschreiben, Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Sep 13 00:34:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Nifty Find - HP2644A In-Reply-To: <005601c25ac6$1eb75130$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <20020913053437.42141.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> I picked up on a $10.00 eBay Buy it now an HP2644A terminal. This terminal uses little tapes (DC-100A's or HP 98200A's). It's slightly beat up (mostly in shipping in spite of the seller's best and professional efforts), but nothing (except see below) that I can't repair - I'm pretty sure I can get this back to nearly original factory condition. It should be a nice complement to some classic micro's I'm working with. The HP 2644A is working. It even came with the hard to replace RS-232 cable,with an edge connector to the unit, weird. Annoying, considering that this thing cost several $1000's in the mid 1970's. It looks like you could put 20 amps of RS-232 signal through it, given the diameter of the cable! The 2644A's claim to fame is that it used the 8008 CPU, and has a tiny mini-operating system, pretty good for a machine with 16K of address space. There is a web site in Germany with a pong game that is actually that you run on the 8008 in the terminal via a diagnostic "back door", which I'm looking forward to trying. I wonder who wrote it. This unit I have doesn't have many goodies like graphics or lower case, but for $10, what do you want. It's built like a "mainframe", and later models used the same everything with different boards plugged into the backplane. I got a few manuals with it; the 2645A and 2648A manuals. The 2645 seems to be very similar. A few questions: 1. The "infamous" HP 98200A tapes are REALLY awful. I got a box on eBay, never used, in wrappers, and they failed immediately. After taking them apart, I think I know why. Even sealed after all these years, the oxide was actualy coming off the tape and the reels didn't even have clips to hold the tape on. Whatever held the ends of the tape on originally, doesn't. Hard to beleive that this was an HP product of that era. I've got almost 35 year old audio casettes that still work and sound great. I think DC100A's and even DC2000's will work according to what I've googled. Any comments? Of course, I've already tackled and (probably) fixed the "gummy" roller problem. Before I used the drives, even. Naturally, I've given away all of my DC2000 tapes... 2. Has anyone ever seen a CRT develop mold between the (bonded to the tube) safety glass and the tube itself? The unit itself was probably stored indoors in a controlled environment because it was otherwise very clean. I'm pretty sure I can get a replacement, but it will cost. Too bad, because the tube is really good and not burned in whatsoever, which is very surprising (the tape heads have zero detectable wear also). Trust me, even if it's technically possible, I won't be trying to separate the safety glass from the tube itself. I hate replacing CRT's. Unfortunately, I've gotten good at it. 3. The tab key is missing. Not broken off, just missing. I have a "kinda close" replacement, but if anyone has a junk HP product of that era with tall, "Cherry" keytops, I'll take anything. Thanks for reading! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From glenslick at hotmail.com Fri Sep 13 01:22:01 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) Message-ID: Does anyone on the list have a copy of this manual that can be copied or scanned, or is there a scanned copy on the net somewhere already? I have a couple of CS/80 HPIB disk drives and I am curious how they are controlled and would like to read the CS/80 programming manual if I can find one. The drives I have are a 9133H which is a combo 20MB hard drive and floppy drive unit which I have used with my HP IPC, and a 2203A which is a whopping 670MB dual disk unit which I haven't hooked up to anything yet. Was that the biggest CS/80 HPIB drive HP ever made? Some day I'll try interfacing one of the drives to the HP 2117F box I have if I can ever figure out how to get it to power up. -Glen _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Sep 13 01:38:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: Message-ID: <000d01c25af0$19fc2100$0100000a@deepspacenine> Tony Duell wrote: >> Tony Duell wrote: >>> Texas CFxxxx numbers tend to be custom ASICs :-(. No chance of >>> getting a data sheet on those. >> *ACK. >> >>> What also bothers me is the lack of RAM. The Philips decoder uses >>> the SAA5231 VIP (Video Input Processor -- this is essentially the >>> 'data slicer' and is mostly analouge), the SAA5243 Teletext >>> decoder/display chip _and an 8K RAM_. >> There are Philips chips with built-in RAM, though. SAA5246 IIRC. > > I thought the 5246 integrated the VIP and the ECCT (Enhanced Computer > Controlled Teletext -- the SAA5243) and still used an external RAM > chip. Oops - my bad. I think the SAA5281 has the RAM integrated, IIRC. >>>> Anyone got a Ferguson T14T or Thomson TX91 service manual? I need >>>> the part >>> It's a bit modern for me :-(. However, a TV service manual is _not_ >>> going to include any info on the commands that flow between various >>> ICs. You will not get a list of registers on the I2C bus and their >>> contents, for example. >> The thing that seems interesting is that the TTX controller IDs it >> as an > > How do you mean? What exactly tells you it's an SAA52xx chip? The I2C address is the same as some of the chips from the SAA52xx series. >> SAA52xx series TTX controller. The original schematic that I had (a >> VERY bad > > If you suspect it's a 5243 or similar, and if you know it's > controlled by an I2C bus, have you tried enabling the external sync > output by writing to the appropriate bit in one of the mode control > registers and then tried looking for a composite sync signal on the > pins of the larger IC? I'm planning to build a video generator using a PIC and then connect Sync to the Cub653, CVBS to the TTX board, then connect R.G.B. from the TTX board to the monitor. In theory that *should* get me a picture. I've got an I2C interface for my laptop that still works, so I have some way of controlling it. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Sep 13 05:12:01 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Illegal Possession of Controlled Devices (was: IN BAD TASTE...) In-Reply-To: <20020913033526.GD260@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <003d01c25acd$3f424b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3D8133D5.D1BDD2D@topnow.com> <003d01c25acd$3f424b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020913060640.00b1f8c0@mail.wincom.net> At 11:35 PM 12/09/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Quothe John Allain, from writings of Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 10:28:28PM -0400: > > There's probably a good story here, but one that I personally > > haven't lived... For those of us who shop at Hamfests, you > > may have heard that owning and operating certain types of legal > > radio equipment before WWII apparently became illegal after it started. > >Illegal to own it? Zog! When are we going to start hearing that >owning computers with mass storage devices, computers designed to use >mass storage devices, or mass storage devices, are illegal acts? How >soon before the illegal posession of "controlled devices" will be as >serious, or more serious, a crime as the illegal posession of >"controlled substances?" Next, it will be illegal (or at least easier >to get caught... it's probably already illegal) to open up one's cable >TV converter box to check for hidden microphones and cameras. If I remember correctly, when amateur radio operators were taken off the air during WWII their transmitters had to be rendered "inoperative" so an enemy agent couldn't take them over and use them for his nefarious activities. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Sep 13 05:22:00 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: My collection (Pictures!) In-Reply-To: <005601c25ac6$1eb75130$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020913062115.00b2cb78@mail.wincom.net> At 09:37 PM 12/09/2002 -0400, you wrote: >I've posted some pictures of the major pieces of my collection at >http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu . Shown are the HP9000/832, PDP-8/E, and >PDP-11/24. Not shown are the Commodore 64, the Sun SparcClassic, the >Macintosh SE, or the Tandy 100 Portable. Beautiful!! but I hope your dart players don't miss very often. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Sep 13 06:04:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Reveal external CD-ROM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Justin Frim wrote: > ISA controller card: Reveal Computer Products Inc, V1.2, FCC ID: > 138-MMCD861 This is what you need a driver for. The cdrom itself is a standard interface, although certainly not ATA or SCSI like more "modern" cdrom drives use. Reveal also went out of business ages ago, so good luck on hunting down info and drivers on the web. > DIP switch information for switch bank SW1 on the controller card would > also be useful. This sets the memory I/O address, and possibly the IRQ (I forget if this particular card used an IRQ). Does the dip switch have 4 or 8 switches? > BTW, I'm not really offering $20... just gratitude. But that's > priceless, right? ;) Uh huh... I quite likely have the docs/drivers for that card, but finding time to move things (lots of big, heavy things) to get access to them is another story... > And if anyone's wondering why I'd want to use such an old peripheral, > it's because it's going on a dedicated network server I'm setting up > (FTP, HTTP, SMTP, NAT, Socks5, and DHCP). The server only needs a > CD-ROM for two things: Wouldn't it be easier to use an old 4x ATA drive for this particular setup? > #1, installing the operating system (Win32. Don't laugh. I'm no UNIX > pro) and software distributed by CD (this is a one-time thing). Linux and FreeBSD both work with that controller/cdrom btw. -Toth From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 13 09:04:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: HP Protocol Analyzers In-Reply-To: <4974.4.20.168.154.1031879889.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20020913140443.52675.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Smith wrote: > >>> I have a 4951. It uses the same tapes as the HP-85, HP 9825, etc. > >>> IIRC they're DC-100 tapes... > > >>> You can also reformat and use DECTapes. > >> > >>Right. That's what my boss used to do. I have plenty of > >>4951-formatted DECtapes to last me a while (5-10, IIRC). > > I've got quite a few reels of DECtape, and I can't imagine how you > could possibly jam them into a cartridge tape slot, nor how they could > be expected to do anything useful if you di. > > Presumably the tapes in question are TU58 tapes, which are unfortunately > known as "DECtape II". Yes. You are correct. Original DECtapes were open reel and ran on TU-55 and TU-56 drives. I wonder what fills the evolutionary tree as a TU-57 (engineering prototype? unreleased transport? skipped for marketing reasons?) > Anyhow, the big problem with reformatting them for use on other systems > is that there is no known way to format them back into TU58 tapes if > you ever need any. :-( True. > And I could definitely use some TU58 tapes, but not if they've been > formatted into something else. I myself have never done it, but I have used ones that other people reformatted. Better to use a DC-100 in your HP 4951, clearly, but 14 years ago, faced with two cases of DECtapes (yes, we did have a bunch bought new from DEC, so not just diagnostic and distro tapes), my boss chose to sacrifice half-a-dozen tapes. It was his company. They were his tapes. Now they are mine. :-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Sep 13 09:35:01 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Almost OT?: The origin of the smiley emoticon... Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467B5B@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> I saw this on The Register's US web site (http://www.theregus.com/) today... First ever smiley found, preserved for posterity - MS researcher and CMU staff find backup tape 13 September 2002 4:33am http://www.theregus.com/content/6/26295.html -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Fri Sep 13 09:40:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box In-Reply-To: <20020913012430.23341.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <10209122153.ZM3924@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020913103802.0124ffb0@pop1.epm.net.co> >And here are the serial connections from page A-4 of "Inside Appletalk" >Second Edition: > >Wire Sig MiniDIN-8 DE-9 >------------------------------------- >Red TxD- pin 3 pin 5 >Blu RxD- pin 5 pin 9 > >Wht RxD+ pin 8 pin 8 >Grn TxD+ pin 6 pin 4 > >GND Case Shield Shield Progress report: I made the adapter and turned on the shiva fastpath. After a few seconds, all of the machines connected to phonenet flashed a message: "Your appletalk network is now available". Not that they could not see each other before; but now, the fastpath box seems to have "zoned" the appletalk network; the Appletalk control panel in all machines now has different info in the "current-zone" field, the "Network" field and the "Network Range" field. Wow. Talk about self-configuration. The "network" application in the Powermac 8100 shows the named appletalk zone under a tab, containing all of the machines currently turned on. There is another tab, named "etalk" (probably by the previous owner of the fastpath box); I guess that's the ethertalk side of the network. I haven't connected that side to the enet hub yet; I need to do some reconfiguration first. But things look good. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From als at thangorodrim.de Fri Sep 13 09:58:00 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Illegal Possession of Controlled Devices (was: IN BAD TASTE...) In-Reply-To: <20020913033526.GD260@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <3D8133D5.D1BDD2D@topnow.com> <003d01c25acd$3f424b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <20020913033526.GD260@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20020913145900.GA17939@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 11:35:26PM -0400, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe John Allain, from writings of Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 10:28:28PM -0400: > > There's probably a good story here, but one that I personally > > haven't lived... For those of us who shop at Hamfests, you > > may have heard that owning and operating certain types of legal > > radio equipment before WWII apparently became illegal after it started. > > Illegal to own it? Zog! When are we going to start hearing that > owning computers with mass storage devices, computers designed to use > mass storage devices, or mass storage devices, are illegal acts? How > soon before the illegal posession of "controlled devices" will be as > serious, or more serious, a crime as the illegal posession of > "controlled substances?" Next, it will be illegal (or at least easier > to get caught... it's probably already illegal) to open up one's cable > TV converter box to check for hidden microphones and cameras. AFAIK it is already illegal in the US of A to mess with any eavesdropping equipment of the police/FBI/.gov you may happen to find in, on or connected to your property (yeah right - and the big bad drug lord _of_ _course_ leaves the microphone in his living room in place and keeps discussing his drug shipments from south amerika there - after all, he's a law abiding criminal *manical laughter*). Or so I've read somewhere. > How long before we're all going to have to begin using "internet > appliances" so that we can't do subversive things like keeping backups > of our own data? Will it soon become a federal felony to use > computers that aren't connected to the Internet all of the time so > that they can be spied on at any time? There was a nice logo spoof of the NSA somewhere with the embedded text: "1984 - we're behind schedule". But they sure work hard to catch up. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Sep 13 10:21:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:19 2005 Subject: Illegal Possession of Controlled Devices (was: IN BAD TASTE...) In-Reply-To: <20020913145900.GA17939@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > AFAIK it is already illegal in the US of A to mess with any > eavesdropping equipment of the police/FBI/.gov you may happen to find > in, on or connected to your property (yeah right - and the big bad drug > lord _of_ _course_ leaves the microphone in his living room in place and > keeps discussing his drug shipments from south amerika there - after > all, he's a law abiding criminal *manical laughter*). Or so I've read > somewhere. Hell, if I ever find something (meaning they did a poor job of hiding it), how do I know it was the 'police' and not some criminal that broke in and installed it? In any matter, it's going to quietly get smashed with a big enough hammer... or maybe just retasked to listening to the exhaust pipe of my car. -- Pat From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Sep 13 11:43:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020904124038.01afc8c0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904150256.01adbc00@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904173738.01ad3cd8@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904175048.01b08ae0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906090505.01b35098@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906125622.01a52570@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020912182009.01ae93b8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> A Windows machine would be the most practical host. Tom Uban wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Your work prompted me to spend some time on an assembler for the Imlac > and after a couple of nights of work on a brand new program, I can > correctly > assemble the simple display program. > > I will get you a copy once I clean up a couple of things. What kind of > machine > would you like to run it on? > > --tom > > From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Sep 13 11:46:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... References: <000401c25ab4$f5769e40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <3D8216E0.6060304@tiac.net> How about a ReImlac? The Imlac CPU is amazingly simple, and would be an ideal project for re-implementation on a FPGA. I'm looking into re-designing the Imlac in exactly this way, but that would come after the 50 Mhz HP2114 on a FPGA, which comes after the release of the new operating system for HP mini's, which is almost done... Chandra Bajpai wrote: >How about a simulator for the rest of us Imlac-less folks? :-) > >-Chandra > > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Tom Uban >Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 7:23 PM >To: Bob Shannon >Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... > >Hi Bob, > >Your work prompted me to spend some time on an assembler for the Imlac >and after a couple of nights of work on a brand new program, I can >correctly >assemble the simple display program. > >I will get you a copy once I clean up a couple of things. What kind of >machine >would you like to run it on? > >--tom > > From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Sep 13 12:46:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Nifty Find - HP2644A References: <20020913053437.42141.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D8224F8.8070801@tiac.net> I've got some 2645's and 2647's that are not working currently, you might get some parts from these. The CRT problem is bad, there is no reasonable treatment, but you can have the tube rebuilt at a very high cost. Or you may get lucky and find that some of my CRT's are in better shape. Loboyko Steve wrote: >I picked up on a $10.00 eBay Buy it now an HP2644A >terminal. This terminal uses little tapes (DC-100A's >or HP 98200A's). It's slightly beat up (mostly in >shipping in spite of the seller's best and >professional efforts), but nothing (except see below) >that I can't repair - I'm pretty sure I can get this >back to nearly original factory condition. It should >be a nice complement to some classic micro's I'm >working with. The HP 2644A is working. It even came >with the hard to replace RS-232 cable,with an edge >connector to the unit, weird. Annoying, considering >that this thing cost several $1000's in the mid >1970's. It looks like you could put 20 amps of RS-232 >signal through it, given the diameter of the cable! > >The 2644A's claim to fame is that it used the 8008 >CPU, and has a tiny mini-operating system, pretty good >for a machine with 16K of address space. There is a >web site in Germany with a pong game that is actually >that you run on the 8008 in the terminal via a >diagnostic "back door", which I'm looking forward to >trying. I wonder who wrote it. > >This unit I have doesn't have many goodies like >graphics or lower case, but for $10, what do you want. >It's built like a "mainframe", and later models used >the same everything with different boards plugged into >the backplane. > >I got a few manuals with it; the 2645A and 2648A >manuals. The 2645 seems to be very similar. > >A few questions: > >1. The "infamous" HP 98200A tapes are REALLY awful. I >got a box on eBay, never used, in wrappers, and they >failed immediately. After taking them apart, I think I >know why. Even sealed after all these years, the oxide >was actualy coming off the tape and the reels didn't >even have clips to hold the tape on. Whatever held the >ends of the tape on originally, doesn't. Hard to >beleive that this was an HP product of that era. I've >got almost 35 year old audio casettes that still work >and sound great. > > I think DC100A's and even DC2000's will work >according to what I've googled. Any comments? Of >course, I've already tackled and (probably) fixed the >"gummy" roller problem. Before I used the drives, >even. Naturally, I've given away all of my DC2000 >tapes... > >2. Has anyone ever seen a CRT develop mold between the >(bonded to the tube) safety glass and the tube itself? >The unit itself was probably stored indoors in a >controlled environment because it was otherwise very >clean. I'm pretty sure I can get a replacement, but it >will cost. Too bad, because the tube is really good >and not burned in whatsoever, which is very surprising >(the tape heads have zero detectable wear also). Trust >me, even if it's technically possible, I won't be >trying to separate the safety glass from the tube >itself. I hate replacing CRT's. Unfortunately, I've >gotten good at it. > >3. The tab key is missing. Not broken off, just >missing. I have a "kinda close" replacement, but if >anyone has a junk HP product of that era with tall, >"Cherry" keytops, I'll take anything. > > >Thanks for reading! > > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! News - Today's headlines >http://news.yahoo.com > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Sep 13 12:56:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Reveal external CD-ROM In-Reply-To: Justin Frim "Reveal external CD-ROM" (Sep 11, 23:55) References: Message-ID: <10209131858.ZM4642@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 11, 23:55, Justin Frim wrote: > $20 to anyone who can find me an MS-DOS driver for a Reveal external 2X CD-ROM drive, model CD 610, FCC ID: > 138-EXT-CDROMSLM > > Specifics: > ISA controller card: Reveal Computer Products Inc, V1.2, FCC ID: 138-MMCD861 > CD-ROM drive: Matsushita-Kotobuki Electronics Industries Ltd, model CD-563-B, FCC ID: IUO9TB008CRB > > DIP switch information for switch bank SW1 on the controller card would also be useful. Did you try a Google search? I did, after I discovered there wasn't enough information in your message or my old Reveal manuals to be sure what I have is what you want. The first hit for "reveal CD610" leads to this page: http://ellingson.com/reveal/products/cdrom/ which will allow you to tell which model you really have, and download the drivers atc. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Sep 13 13:01:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: SGI, er, ah, CDC Indigo Re: Broken mouse! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020912231206.450f72c6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>; from rigdonj@cfl.rr.com on Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 01:12:06 CEST References: <3D805A2B.7070601@aconit.org> <3D805A2B.7070601@aconit.org> <20020912112147.GA13959@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3.0.6.16.20020912231206.450f72c6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020913195404.A1351@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.09.13 01:12 Joe wrote: > >> It is for a CDC Cyber 910 workstation, > >Isn't that a relabled SGI Indigo R3000? > I think that you're thinking of the CDC 9100. Here's a picture > Ahh, yes. You are right. But the pix@epay are from a R4000 Indigo, if I see it right. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Sep 13 13:03:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: ATM NIC trade? Message-ID: <10209131905.ZM4654@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> I have the opportunity to set up some ATM networking kit and I'd like to include one of my SGI machines in the system. I'm looking for a GIO bus ATM NIC for an Indy or Indigo2. I have a brand-new-in-box Newbridge VIVID S-Bus ATM (OC-3, 155Mb/s) card with Solaris drivers to trade, preferably to someone in the UK. BTW, anyone (again, in the UK, because you'd have to collect it) want some Newbridge ATM kit, going fairly cheap? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Sep 13 13:08:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000/240 In-Reply-To: ; from doc@mdrconsult.com on Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 02:12:30 CEST References: Message-ID: <20020913200132.C1351@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.09.13 02:12 Doc Shipley wrote: > Doc, who still wants the firmware upgrade \begin{AOL} MEE 2!!! \end{AOL} If you can get a TurboCannel Ethernet card (PMAD-A) you will be able to boot with tftp. The card has its own ROM without bugs. Note that the main system PROM has only in the tftp code a bug. It can boot via MOP very well. But getting a suitable MOP image and MOPD on an other OS than ULTRIX is a problem. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jim at jkearney.com Fri Sep 13 13:17:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: 74H52 chip References: Message-ID: <003701c25b51$cb2df320$1301090a@jkearney.com> >From: "Tony Duell" > Thanks for the info, I'll give them a try. Tony, I don't know if you've followed through on this yet, but I happened to run across a couple of these guys at a surplus store today, individually boxed no less. I got the pair for a buck, do you want them? The boxes and ICs are labelled "Technicians Component Group", but presumably were made by some real mfr. Jim From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Sep 13 13:35:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Almost OT?: The origin of the smiley emoticon... In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467B5B@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > I saw this on The Register's US web site (http://www.theregus.com/) today... > First ever smiley found, preserved for posterity > - MS researcher and CMU staff find backup tape > 13 September 2002 4:33am > http://www.theregus.com/content/6/26295.html Is that the article that claims that no smiley's were ever used before 1982? While I can not provide any proof of prior art, I saw them used occasionally with 360 selectric terminal operations in 1970! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Sep 13 13:38:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Illegal Possession of Controlled Devices (was: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > AFAIK it is already illegal in the US of A to mess with any > > eavesdropping equipment of the police/FBI/.gov you may happen to find > > in, on or connected to your property (yeah right - and the big bad drug > > lord _of_ _course_ leaves the microphone in his living room in place and > > keeps discussing his drug shipments from south amerika there - after > > all, he's a law abiding criminal *manical laughter*). Or so I've read > > somewhere. > Hell, if I ever find something (meaning they did a poor job of hiding it), > how do I know it was the 'police' and not some criminal that broke in and > installed it? In any matter, it's going to quietly get smashed with a big > enough hammer... or maybe just retasked to listening to the exhaust pipe > of my car. How do you smash it with a big hammer QUIETLY?!? That just gets new ones installed. Proper way to handle it is with a prepared script, and some tape loops of background noises and conversation. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Sep 13 13:40:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Almost OT?: The origin of the smiley emoticon... In-Reply-To: References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467B5B@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3100.4.20.168.118.1031942422.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Is that the article that claims that no smiley's were ever used before > 1982? He doesn't claim that. He claims that he independently invented it and started the use of it on the Internet. From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Sep 13 13:42:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Illegal Possession of Controlled Devices (was: References: Message-ID: <3D8231ED.7040307@tiac.net> No no, you find the monitoring van.....or remote recorder setup... Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >>>AFAIK it is already illegal in the US of A to mess with any >>>eavesdropping equipment of the police/FBI/.gov you may happen to find >>>in, on or connected to your property (yeah right - and the big bad drug >>>lord _of_ _course_ leaves the microphone in his living room in place and >>>keeps discussing his drug shipments from south amerika there - after >>>all, he's a law abiding criminal *manical laughter*). Or so I've read >>>somewhere. >>> >>Hell, if I ever find something (meaning they did a poor job of hiding it), >>how do I know it was the 'police' and not some criminal that broke in and >>installed it? In any matter, it's going to quietly get smashed with a big >>enough hammer... or maybe just retasked to listening to the exhaust pipe >>of my car. >> > >How do you smash it with a big hammer QUIETLY?!? > >That just gets new ones installed. Proper way to handle it is with a >prepared script, and some tape loops of background noises and >conversation. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020913/265fc753/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 13 13:43:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Nifty Find - HP2644A In-Reply-To: <20020913053437.42141.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> from "Loboyko Steve" at Sep 12, 2 10:34:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3051 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020913/c308d959/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 13 13:43:13 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) In-Reply-To: <000d01c25af0$19fc2100$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 13, 2 07:37:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2558 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020913/d8c88342/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 13 13:44:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Nifty Find - HP2644A In-Reply-To: <3D8224F8.8070801@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Sep 13, 2 01:48:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 518 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020913/3f6a9230/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Sep 13 13:49:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Almost OT?: The origin of the smiley emoticon... In-Reply-To: <3100.4.20.168.118.1031942422.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > Is that the article that claims that no smiley's were ever used before > > 1982? > > He doesn't claim that. He claims that he independently invented it and > started the use of it on the Internet. So prior use with computers would not count? How about Arpanet? From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Sep 13 13:50:01 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Almost OT?: The origin of the smiley emoticon... Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467B5C@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Eric Smith [mailto:eric@brouhaha.com] > > > > Is that the article that claims that no smiley's were ever > used before > > 1982? > > He doesn't claim that. He claims that he independently > invented it and started the use of it on the Internet. > Actually, if you go the the bottom of the page here... http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~sef/sefSmiley.htm ... I don't think he is claiming that he started the use of it, he seems to only be concluding that. He says "...but it is pretty clear from the timing that my suggestion was the one that finally took hold..." Of course, everyone interprets written words in different ways... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Sep 13 13:58:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Almost OT?: The origin of the smiley emoticon... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Is that the article that claims that no smiley's were ever used before > > 1982? > > He doesn't claim that. He claims that he independently invented it and > started the use of it on the Internet. So,... A newbie who gets an AOL account today and "comes up with it on their own and starts using it" could make the same claim. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 13 13:59:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020913190006.578.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > If you tried to move my ES/9000 on a ramp, you would probably die a quick > death. Unless, of course you had a lot of help. > > Peace... Sridhar I watched a couple of "stooges" try to cart away our 3745 when it went off lease. We *told* the company that we did not have a loading dock and that they would need to bring a lift-gate truck. They showed up with a 16' truck with the built-in aluminum ramp (like a U-Haul). To their credit, they managed to get it half-way up, but then the ramp began to torque, probably about 15 degrees each way. It was almost an undampened oscillation, but at the last second, they steadied the load and eased it back down. Someone else showed up the next day with a lift-gate. :-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Sep 13 14:20:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... References: <000401c25ab4$f5769e40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> <3D8216E0.6060304@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3D823989.4010409@jetnet.ab.ca> Bob Shannon wrote: > How about a ReImlac? > > The Imlac CPU is amazingly simple, and would be an ideal project for > re-implementation on a FPGA. do you know of any DOCS on the web for the hardware/software details? From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Sep 13 15:03:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: Message-ID: <001701c25b60$89eb9160$0100000a@deepspacenine> Tony Duell wrote: >> I'm planning to build a video generator using a PIC and then connect >> Sync to the Cub653, CVBS to the TTX board, then connect R.G.B. from >> the TTX board to the monitor. In theory that *should* get me a >> picture. I've got an I2C > Should it? Why? The Teletext decoder is not also a colour video > decoder (or at least the ones I am used to aren't). The RGB outputs > of the Teletext decoder are mixed/multiplexed with the RGB outputs of > a colour decoder and then fed to the video output stages. Hmm... I thought it used the CVBS signal to lock onto and then generated RGB video out. RGB -> Cub monitor, Sync from vidgen -> Cub monitor, CVBS from vidgen -> TTX board. Anyway, I'll see if my PICDREAM video generator can generate a good enough signal for the TTX board to generate some form of video signal. The 5281 also seems to allow access to its RAM via I2C register accesses - set the X and Y co-ords, then write a character to it. Oh, how I wish I had a TX91G service manual so I could find out just how this pesky thing works and what Thomson originally designed it to use... The TX90 uses an SAA5281, the schematic I've got for the TTX board has had the "SAA52" bit nipped off and most of the next digit. It looks like a 2-chip design, though. > Unless there's a valid teletext stream in the video signal, the > teletext decoder is not going to produce any video.... *thud* *thud* *thud* *thud* <-- sound of philpem's head hitting the wall many times... > I know you have this teletext board using these unknown ICs, but > really your life would be a lot simpler if you used the SAA5243 or > one of its later replacements. Those can generate sync signals. Those > can be used as just video display ICs (without needing a valid > teletext input -- you can store data in the video RAM via the I2C > bus). And there's a lot of documentation out there for them. Know anyone that stocks the SAA5243? Can't find it on Farnell's site, nor does my CPC catalogue list it. >> interface for my laptop that still works, so I have some way of >> controlling it. > > If your OS allows you to have direct access to the printer port I/O > registers, you can make an I2C interface for the PC using 2 diodes [snip] Actually, mine uses a 7406 (IIRC) buffer. It's a clone of the original Philips I2C probing pod. It looks like it can intercept I2C traffic and also output it. I'll see if I can persuade the TTX board to generate any video tonight. I've got a Tek 466 storage scope and a Gould OS1100A in case I need an extra two channels. Anyone know of a source for Tek 1x/10x probes? The 466 seems to want the ring around the BNC connector shorting to the shield (GND) to push it into 10x mode. Guess how many probes I've found that do that... That's right, none. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 13 15:33:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020913203342.83653.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I watched a couple of "stooges" try to cart away our 3745 when it went > > off lease... the ramp began to torque, probably about 15 degrees each > > way... > > LOL > > I'm surprised the ramp didn't snap. Me, too; but I suppose the side rails have a lot of strength in the vertical dimension and the torque was possible because of insufficient stiffness in the lateral dimension. I forgot to say that the 3745 itself did not *fit* on the ramp - they balanced it on a 4-caster furniture dolly that did. The bottom of the 3745 cleared the side rails by less than an inch. The box itself was at least 72" tall (perhaps 78") and no less than twice as wide as the ramp! I think the stooge on the left came about 6" from being crushed by an FEP. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From jwillis at arielusa.com Fri Sep 13 15:41:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: WTB: DEC VAX 11/750 in New Mexico, W. Texas, Arizona Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2B8B78@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> Wanted to buy: Digital Equipment Corporation VAX 11/750 system In New Mexico, West Texas or Arizona would be best as these are heavy and expensive to ship. John Perkins Willis Software Engineer/Database Architect Ariel Technologies (505) 524-6860 jwillis@arielusa.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020913/fb51a013/attachment.html From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Sep 13 15:42:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <3D823989.4010409@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <000401c25ab4$f5769e40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> <3D8216E0.6060304@tiac.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020913154324.01a77140@ubanproductions.com> Check here: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/imlac/ --tom At 01:16 PM 9/13/2002 -0600, Ben Franchuk wrote: >Bob Shannon wrote: >>How about a ReImlac? >>The Imlac CPU is amazingly simple, and would be an ideal project for >>re-implementation on a FPGA. > do you know of any DOCS on the web for the hardware/software details? > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 13 16:12:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020913171448.46b79fec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:22 PM 9/12/02 -0700, you wrote: >Does anyone on the list have a copy of this manual that can be copied or >scanned, or is there a scanned copy on the net somewhere already? I think Frank McConnell has one. He used to be on this list but I haven't seen anything from him in quite a spell. > >I have a couple of CS/80 HPIB disk drives and I am curious how they are >controlled and would like to read the CS/80 programming manual if I can find >one. > >The drives I have are a 9133H which is a combo 20MB hard drive and floppy >drive unit which I have used with my HP IPC, I'm using a HP 7958 in my IPC. It's not listed as being recommended for the IPC but it works fine. Every HP hard drive that I've tried on the IPC has worked fine on it. and a 2203A which is a whopping >670MB dual disk unit which I haven't hooked up to anything yet. Was that >the biggest CS/80 HPIB drive HP ever made? No, I know that some versions of the HP 7963 were larger. Probably others as well. The 7963 is in a box that is the same height and width as the standard HP hard drives but it's much deeper. It comes standard with one 330 Mb drive installed but you (or HP) can add two (or 3?) more drives inside the box. I looked it up in the '86 HP catalog one time and the price for a fully loaded 7963 was about $22,000!!!! I used to have a 7963 but I don't remember what I did with it. It may still be in the shed outside. I never tried it on the IPC. The ~80 Mb 7958 has far more capacity than I'll ever use on the IPC. Joe Some day I'll try interfacing >one of the drives to the HP 2117F box I have if I can ever figure out how to >get it to power up. > >-Glen > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 13 16:12:34 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Nifty Find - HP2644A In-Reply-To: <20020913053437.42141.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <005601c25ac6$1eb75130$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020913170648.46aff858@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Steve, At 10:34 PM 9/12/02 -0700, you wrote: >I picked up on a $10.00 eBay Buy it now an HP2644A >terminal. This terminal uses little tapes (DC-100A's >or HP 98200A's). That's a pretty nifty find! The HP 2644 was HP's first product to use the DC-100 tapes. The 2644 was well covered in one of the HP Journals. According to an article in it, the DC-100 tapes were developed jointly between HP and 3M. If so then the HP tapes must be some of the very first ones made. Perhaps that explains why they're so failure prone. Not only does the media fall of but usually the rubber drive belt in the tape has crystalized and falls apart at the first attempt to use the tape. The DECTape II and DC-100 marked tapes have a high failure rate too but well below the near 100% failure rate for the HP marekd tapes. It's slightly beat up (mostly in >shipping in spite of the seller's best and >professional efforts), but nothing (except see below) >that I can't repair - I'm pretty sure I can get this >back to nearly original factory condition. It should >be a nice complement to some classic micro's I'm >working with. The HP 2644A is working. It even came >with the hard to replace RS-232 cable,with an edge >connector to the unit, weird. Annoying, considering >that this thing cost several $1000's in the mid >1970's. It looks like you could put 20 amps of RS-232 >signal through it, given the diameter of the cable! > >The 2644A's claim to fame is that it used the 8008 >CPU, and has a tiny mini-operating system, pretty good >for a machine with 16K of address space. There is a >web site in Germany with a pong game that is actually >that you run on the 8008 in the terminal via a >diagnostic "back door", which I'm looking forward to >trying. I wonder who wrote it. Any idea what the HP part number is on the 8008? I have some old junk HP terminals of that style and I'll save the 8008s if I can locate them. > >This unit I have doesn't have many goodies like >graphics or lower case, but for $10, what do you want. >It's built like a "mainframe", and later models used >the same everything with different boards plugged into >the backplane. > >I got a few manuals with it; the 2645A and 2648A >manuals. The 2645 seems to be very similar. > >A few questions: > >1. The "infamous" HP 98200A tapes are REALLY awful. I >got a box on eBay, never used, in wrappers, and they >failed immediately. After taking them apart, I think I >know why. Even sealed after all these years, the oxide >was actualy coming off the tape and the reels didn't >even have clips to hold the tape on. Whatever held the >ends of the tape on originally, doesn't. Hard to >beleive that this was an HP product of that era. I've >got almost 35 year old audio casettes that still work >and sound great. > > I think DC100A's and even DC2000's will work >according to what I've googled. Any comments? There have been a bunch of comments about this just in the past week so I won't repeat them but yes the DC-100 tapes and DECTape IIs will work in the HP if you reformat them. The DC-2000 tapes won't work, the tape is wider and the plastic housing is thicker. The drive roller in the tape cartridge also falls half way off of the drive roller in the drive and tears up the roller. Of >course, I've already tackled and (probably) fixed the >"gummy" roller problem. Before I used the drives, >even. Naturally, I've given away all of my DC2000 >tapes... > >2. Has anyone ever seen a CRT develop mold between the >(bonded to the tube) safety glass and the tube itself? I've seen that in a lot of HPs including the 9845s and 9835s. I don't know if it's mold or what but it shows up as lots of white spots inside the glass. It seems to show up regardless of how the monitor was stored. A couple of years ago I junked seven HP 64000 LDSs. They all had good CRTS. About a week later I found that the CRTs were the same as that used in the 9835. :-( You might be able to locate a HP 64000 and use the CRT from that. >The unit itself was probably stored indoors in a >controlled environment because it was otherwise very >clean. I'm pretty sure I can get a replacement, but it >will cost. Too bad, because the tube is really good >and not burned in whatsoever, which is very surprising >(the tape heads have zero detectable wear also). Trust >me, even if it's technically possible, I won't be >trying to separate the safety glass from the tube >itself. I hate replacing CRT's. Unfortunately, I've >gotten good at it. > >3. The tab key is missing. Not broken off, just >missing. I have a "kinda close" replacement, but if >anyone has a junk HP product of that era with tall, >"Cherry" keytops, I'll take anything. I may have one. I have a couple of old HP terminals of that style laying around. I'll check when it's not raining. Remind me in a day or two if you don't hear from me. Joe > > >Thanks for reading! > > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! News - Today's headlines >http://news.yahoo.com > From cpg at aladdin.de Fri Sep 13 17:08:00 2002 From: cpg at aladdin.de (Christian Groessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: CP/M-8000 Message-ID: <87znulwni5.fsf@power.cnet.aladdin.de> Hi, On 09/13/2002 10:55:11 PM ZE2 jurjen.kranenborg wrote: > >In case you still are looking for it, here's the link to the >officilial DR distribution of CP/M-8000 tuned to the M20: >http://www.cpm.z80.de/source.html >On this page you will find the link to CP/M-8000 distributions Thanks. I knew this already :-) >I have a few questions concerning the z8001 and accompanying >software, may I get in contact with you about this (I am planning to >build a Z8001 system myself (in the year 2002? Yes, because I bought >the parts in 1985 and I rediscovered them just recently) Yes, sure. regards, chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 13 17:12:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) In-Reply-To: <001701c25b60$89eb9160$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 13, 2 09:02:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5419 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020913/2d698641/attachment.ksh From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Sep 13 17:20:01 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Nifty Find - HP2644A References: Message-ID: <042a01c25b73$eb4c0670$0101a8c0@athlon> Subject: Re: Nifty Find - HP2644A > 2. Has anyone ever seen a CRT develop mold between the > (bonded to the tube) safety glass and the tube itself? Steve et al This sounds like the problem I had a month or so back with the CRT in a HP9845. Only in my case the mould spots had 'advanced' inwards from the edge of the screen around 2-3 inches. Not pretty! If you have a look you will probably find the 'seal' around the edge of the front of the tube is taped over- virtually no real moisture barrier at all for what is underneath. Further- you will almost certainly find that the front of the tube itself has a conventional bonded safety glass- the mould is in the layer of transparent 'goo' used to attach an additional anti-glare 'cosmetically appealing' dark glass to the front of the safety glass on an ordinary CRT. The 'goo' in the case of the 9845 CRT was very similar in texture to silicon rubber-possibly was- and the layer was a bit over an eighth of an inch thick. Likewise the dark glass on the front. I tried several solvents on the 'goo' (after removing CRT from 9845 of course!) and found ordinary petrol to be fairly effective- there are no doubt better solvents but it worked. Judicious use of a piece of piano wire and weights was tried, with the CRT mounted in a temporary wooden frame, but the most rapid way to get the goo out was (you are outside or in a well ventilated area - right!) to dribble a generous amount of petrol into the goo- wait about a minute, and carefully dig out the softened stuff with a long thin screwdriver. It's tedious work and I did it in several stages but it was not difficult. End result- cleaned 'em up and got a perfectly useable CRT and separate 'anti glare' glass. I reassembled them with an air gap and 'goo' in the screen corners only- its easy enuff to get into the gap and clean it out now- should the need arise again. Visually no difference- except maybe a bit brighter screen image. Essential point to note- make sure the tube has a bonded safety glass-- in this case it was difficult to actually tell till I had it out and removed all the black tape around the edge of the screen. DaveB Ch Ch NZ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Sep 13 17:39:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: CP/M-8000 Message-ID: <200209132239.PAA01418@clulw009.amd.com> Hi He should also be aware of the manuals at: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/digitalResearch/ and http://www.retrocomputing-world.com/biblio/cpu/z8000/z8000.html Chris and I are working on getting CPM-8000 up and running on our M20's. It has been a slow project. I just yesterday figured out how to get the machines to take 512K of RAM ( CPM8000 needed 128K of free RAM and the normal 224K system was not big enough ). Chris is already quite handy with the assembler but I've mostly been looking at hardware issues with the help of the manuals from Hans Pufal. Progress is being made but it is slow. It takes me several hours to pull the 16K DRAMs to stick in 64K one on the expansion boards. I currently only have one card modified for a total of 256K ( w/ motherboard ). When I do all three, I'll be at 512K ( a power user ). Dwight >From: "Christian Groessler" > >Hi, > >On 09/13/2002 10:55:11 PM ZE2 jurjen.kranenborg wrote: >> >>In case you still are looking for it, here's the link to the >>officilial DR distribution of CP/M-8000 tuned to the M20: >>http://www.cpm.z80.de/source.html >>On this page you will find the link to CP/M-8000 distributions > >Thanks. I knew this already :-) > > >>I have a few questions concerning the z8001 and accompanying >>software, may I get in contact with you about this (I am planning to >>build a Z8001 system myself (in the year 2002? Yes, because I bought >>the parts in 1985 and I rediscovered them just recently) > >Yes, sure. > >regards, >chris > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Sep 13 18:47:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Your M20 problems Message-ID: <200209132347.QAA01454@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Hans It just occurred to me that your system may have the same problem mine did when I first got it. I was seeing occasional bad reads. I took the drives apart to clean the heads when I noticed something funny. Both disk drives had terminators installed. I removed one of these and my problems went away. It was such a long time ago that I'd forgot about it. While tracing down signals for my 512K fix, I noticed the terminator R-Pack that I'd taped to the disk drive ( I try to follow the first rule of intelligent tinkering: "Save All the Pieces" ). I had to go back through the thought process of why it was there. Eventually, I remembered that you were having drive problems. Strange how the mind works sometimes. Dwight From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Sep 13 19:40:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Illegal Possession of Controlled Devices (was: In-Reply-To: <3D8231ED.7040307@tiac.net> References: <3D8231ED.7040307@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20020914005317.GA876@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Bob Shannon, from writings of Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 02:43:57PM -0400: > No no, you find the monitoring van.....or remote recorder setup... ...and pipe some laughing gas in there for the humor-impaired droids of Big Brother inside, or place a big magnet in the right place, close to the tape reels, inconspicuously? :-) I also rather like the idea of spray painting a big peace symbol with the words "Birds do it, we do it. Wanna do it with us? Come on in, anyone!" below it, on the van, while they're busy inside with their spook stuff, along with the words "If this vans a rockin' don't come a knockin'." Wow, wait until the spooks step outside and see that! They'd freak out! :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From glenslick at hotmail.com Fri Sep 13 20:14:01 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) Message-ID: I did get a private reply with a temporary pointer to the CS/80 spec so I now have a copy. Thanks to some help from Bob I got past the HP 2117F power supply issue so now the box is not totally dead. Some day after I figure out a lot more about how this system works I'll have to try building an HPIB cable to connect to the 12821A disc interface in the system and see if I can get it to talk to one of my CS/80 drives. Apparently this box has a CS/80 boot prom which I have been told is not too common. -Glen >From: Joe >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) Date: >Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:14:48 > >At 11:22 PM 9/12/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Does anyone on the list have a copy of this manual that can be copied or > >scanned, or is there a scanned copy on the net somewhere already? > > > I think Frank McConnell has one. He used to be on this list but I >haven't seen anything from him in quite a spell. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 13 22:07:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020913231010.4cf72694@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Glen, Don't bother to build a HP-IB cable. They're common. If you can't find one locally I'll drop one in the mail to you. Joe At 06:14 PM 9/13/02 -0700, you wrote: >I did get a private reply with a temporary pointer to the CS/80 spec so I >now have a copy. > >Thanks to some help from Bob I got past the HP 2117F power supply issue so >now the box is not totally dead. Some day after I figure out a lot more >about how this system works I'll have to try building an HPIB cable to >connect to the 12821A disc interface in the system and see if I can get it >to talk to one of my CS/80 drives. Apparently this box has a CS/80 boot >prom which I have been told is not too common. > >-Glen > > > >>From: Joe >>Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: Re: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) Date: >>Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:14:48 >> >>At 11:22 PM 9/12/02 -0700, you wrote: >> >Does anyone on the list have a copy of this manual that can be copied or >> >scanned, or is there a scanned copy on the net somewhere already? >> >> >> I think Frank McConnell has one. He used to be on this list but I >>haven't seen anything from him in quite a spell. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Sep 13 22:33:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Illegal Possession of Controlled Devices (was: IN BAD TASTE...) In-Reply-To: <20020913033526.GD260@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <003d01c25acd$3f424b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3D8133D5.D1BDD2D@topnow.com> <003d01c25acd$3f424b60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020913231242.00a76008@mail.30below.com> At 23:35 09/12/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Illegal to own it? Zog! When are we going to start hearing that >owning computers with mass storage devices, computers designed to use >mass storage devices, or mass storage devices, are illegal acts? How >soon before the illegal posession of "controlled devices" will be as >serious, or more serious, a crime as the illegal posession of >"controlled substances?" Honestly, prolly *less* likely, as the Ooh Ess of Aah has been lightening up on crypto laws, altho Snuffle is still illegal - prolly because it's better than what the No Such Agency has... ;-) Dunno Snuffle? Look up "DJB" & "qmail" -- that should give you more... > Next, it will be illegal (or at least easier >to get caught... it's probably already illegal) to open up one's cable >TV converter box to check for hidden microphones and cameras. Bzzzt. Wrong answer. At least for now, it's not illegal to open up what you have (or even what you don't *own*) provided you don't make modifications to it. You can legally own a Colt AR-15 rifle (read: civilian version of the M-16 automatic rifle) and *legally* own the full-auto conversion kit... you are not in violation of any laws until you actually *install* the kit. (Erm... Scheayah, here in the US... those over the Ponds I can't vouch for...) Granted, I don't have a crystal ball... this may not hold to the future... and I'm certainly not saying they're not *actively trying* to amend these laws... (re: DMCA, and it's ilk...) >How long before we're all going to have to begin using "internet >appliances" so that we can't do subversive things like keeping backups >of our own data? Will it soon become a federal felony to use >computers that aren't connected to the Internet all of the time so >that they can be spied on at any time? FidoNet & Usenet... here we come! Time to design some "unhackable" crypto that runs on a CoCo! (Or at least a STacy, if you need 16-bit power...) A buddy of mine *still* runs an active Tandy Model 10x/200 BBS! The American people have always prevailed, despite the Gubbermint & it's laws... ;-) Enough OT ramblings borne of foreign & domestic brews... Roger "Merch" Merchberger From red at bears.org Fri Sep 13 22:34:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Illegal Possession of Controlled Devices (was: In-Reply-To: <20020914005317.GA876@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: [political opinions removed] > "If this vans a rockin' don't come a knockin'." Wow, wait until the > spooks step outside and see that! They'd freak out! :-) R.D.: Have you ever submitted any message to this list that had actual classic computer content? Because I can't remember any. My memory's not great, though, so I just wanted to double check before I get the wrong impression. ok r. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Sep 13 22:50:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Nifty Find - HP2644A In-Reply-To: <042a01c25b73$eb4c0670$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20020914035053.95773.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> Very interesting! Thanks - comments below. --- Dave Brown wrote: > Subject: Re: Nifty Find - HP2644A > > > > 2. Has anyone ever seen a CRT develop mold between > the > > (bonded to the tube) safety glass and the tube > itself? > > Steve et al > > This sounds like the problem I had a month or so > back with the CRT in a > HP9845. Only in my case the mould spots had > 'advanced' inwards from the edge > of the screen around 2-3 inches. Not pretty! This is indeed what is happening to mine. > If you have a look you will probably find the > 'seal' around the edge of the > front of the tube is taped over- virtually no real > moisture barrier at all > for what is underneath. > > Further- you will almost certainly find that the > front of the tube itself > has a conventional bonded safety glass- the mould is > in the layer of > transparent 'goo' used to attach an additional > anti-glare 'cosmetically > appealing' dark glass to the front of the safety > glass on an ordinary CRT. > > The 'goo' in the case of the 9845 CRT was very > similar in texture to silicon > rubber-possibly was- and the layer was a bit over an > eighth of an inch > thick. Likewise the dark glass on the front. > > I tried several solvents on the 'goo' (after > removing CRT from 9845 of > course!) and found ordinary petrol to be fairly > effective- there are no > doubt better solvents but it worked. > > Judicious use of a piece of piano wire and weights > was tried, with the CRT > mounted in a temporary wooden frame, but the most > rapid way to get the goo > out was (you are outside or in a well ventilated > area - right!) to dribble a > generous amount of petrol into the goo- wait about a > minute, and carefully > dig out the softened stuff with a long thin > screwdriver. It's tedious work > and I did it in several stages but it was not > difficult. > I'm a little nervous about screwdrivers or putty knives and glass under vacuum. I wonder if a HEATED wire would cut through this. Also, I've found that acetone goes through just about anything not metal or glass eventually. If you've ever seen the people who replace car windshields at work (on pre-1990's cars, anyway), they heat a very thin wire with a blowtorch and use this to cut the sealant. It might be hard to find this thin, strong wire, though. Thin wire, easy. Strong wire, easy. Thin, strong wire... > End result- cleaned 'em up and got a perfectly > useable CRT and separate > 'anti glare' glass. > I reassembled them with an air gap and 'goo' in the > screen corners only- I might use clear RTV or something similar, if I am successful. > its easy enuff to get into the gap and clean it out > now- should the need > arise again. Visually no difference- except maybe a > bit brighter screen > image. > Essential point to note- make sure the tube has a > bonded safety glass-- in > this case it was difficult to actually tell till I > had it out and removed > all the black tape around the edge of the screen. I think it is illegal in the US (at least for the last 40+ years) to sell a CRT without a bonded faceplate (actually as a part of the glass). I was reading some horror stories about what happened before this law. Imagine a very hot tube of glass and metal (the gun part of the tube) being shot right into your face (because this is the direction it wants to go in when the tube implodes). So I'm pretty sure that this will be ok. Considering that this tube might be hard to get, probably expensive, and may not be or look "original" without the faceplate, I think I'm going to make a frame out of wood and try it. The CRT itself doesn't seem to be burned at all, and delivers fairly crisp characters. Interesting that you did this so resourcefully - where you are, I'll bet you can't get a replacement at ANY price! > DaveB > Ch Ch NZ > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Sep 13 23:05:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Illegal Possession of Controlled Devices (was: References: Message-ID: <3D82B592.5F0E3C34@compsys.to> >"r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > > On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > > [political opinions removed] > > "If this vans a rockin' don't come a knockin'." Wow, wait until the > > spooks step outside and see that! They'd freak out! :-) > > R.D.: > Have you ever submitted any message to this list that had actual classic > computer content? Because I can't remember any. My memory's not great, > though, so I just wanted to double check before I get the wrong > impression. > ok > r. Jerome Fine replies: "Just the facts!" I am not sticking up for R.D. Davis, but this did take place under cctalk. FURTHER, of the 12 messages I have saved from R. D. Davis from March 22nd, 2002 until now, at least 6 were classic computer in content, in particular for TSX-PLUS which reminds me that I should have replied to those. And frankly, I rather enjoyed reading some of them - they are both funny and serious at the same time! So although I rarely have enough time to take part, I still think they should be allowed under cctalk. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Sep 14 00:00:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Mildew and Computers (was: OT: Re: Illegal Possession...) In-Reply-To: References: <20020914005317.GA876@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20020914051950.GA2553@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe r. 'bear' stricklin, from writings of Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 11:34:20PM -0400: > Have you ever submitted any message to this list that had actual classic > computer content? Because I can't remember any. My memory's not great, Yes. Now for a question for you: are you one of the spooks, and are you attempting to silence dissenting thoughts? Didn't think so, but just wanted to make sure. :-) Now, we return you to your regularly scheduled on-topic programming: In today's eposide of "The Menacing Mr. Mildew Meets Ol' Widder Bitcruncher," The Ol' Widder Bitcruncher has been visited by Mr. Mildew, and she's now beginning to turn pale from the mildew spores that were left behind. Alas, the last time that Lysol Man attempted to rescue her, he damaged some of her plastic parts. In today's eposide, the Widder Bitcruncher is trying to find a way of saving herself from the remaining mildew spores which have reappeared since the cheerfully damp and dreary weather arrived. Can the old Widder Bitcruncher be saved? Tune in next time and find out, but, for now, we give you a hint: someone's attempting to save her by looking into the use of a secret forumula called Disc Doctor---normally used on vinyl LPs, which isn't supposed to harm vinyl records, and may be gentle on various types of plastic. Has anyone tried mixing up a batch of Disc Doctor (the formula used for vinyl LPs) in a spray bottle, and using it inside, or on, mildew-damaged machines? Has anyone tried this on mildewed floppies as well? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sat Sep 14 00:06:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020914050621.75624.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> I work near a mil surplus place, and I saw these devices like "racks" of casters...could be used for moving thousands of pounds...very neat. Somthing I didn't buy because I have no use for it (for a change). --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > "REAL computers are too big to be on casters"? > > Are you saying my ES/9000 isn't a real computer? > It rides on casters... > > 24 of them. > > I guess that with a couple dozen casters, you can > make ANY computer > "portable". > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From glenslick at hotmail.com Sat Sep 14 01:27:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) Message-ID: Thanks for the offer, but I didn't mean a standard HPIB-HPIB cable. The 12821A disc interface has a 50 conductor edge connector instead of a standard HPIB champ connector. I think the HP part number for the edge connector to HPIB champ connector cable is 59310-60008. If that was really the cable you were talking about then maybe I will take you up on your offer. -Glen >From: Joe >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) >Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:10:10 > >Glen, > > Don't bother to build a HP-IB cable. They're common. If you can't find >one locally I'll drop one in the mail to you. > > Joe _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Sep 14 02:12:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: Have DG AV530s, need media/docs Message-ID: <200209140712.g8E7CJR02830@buserr.crash.com> I've recently come into posession of two working Data General AViiON AV530 workstations, and an as-yet un-tested AV410. Copyrights on the PCBs indicate a 1990 provenence so I think I'm okay WRT list rules... ;^) First question: Anybody have bootable media that they could see fit to duplicate or loan? None of the BSDs seem to have made it to the DG m88k boxes, though many people have asked and some work has been done. (Last time I checked was a while ago, though...) Second: Anybody have docs for this model, paper or 'lectronic? Third: The AV530s are dual-capable - can I just pull the CPU from one AV530 and pop it on top of the connector blocks on the other AV530? Wouldn't mind hearing from someone before I discover the answer myself via a smoke test... There are jumpers that are labeled clearly WRT running sinle- or dual-processor, but is there anything else I need to know? Thanks, --Steve. Steve Jones ...!uunet!crash.com!smj Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing (any spambots parse bang paths?) "Chaos will ensue if the variable i is altered..." - SysV Programmers Guide From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Sep 14 02:28:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:20 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) References: Message-ID: <002701c25bc0$32a4ba20$0100000a@deepspacenine> Tony Duell wrote: [snip] > What it _won't_ do is decode PAL (or any other) colour video. There's > a separate chip for that in the TV. I don't WANT it to decode PAL. I'm using it for a display system in a selfbuilt computer. I'm going to add a video tuner later (i.e. when I've reverse-engineered one of the VCR tuners in my junk^M^M^M^M quality used parts box). > The RGB outputs from the teletext > board are combined with that chip. There's often another output from > the teletext board which is used to blank the 'live' video. So you > can have live video only (teletext decoder produces no RGB ouptuts), > teletext only (teletext decoder produces RGB _and_ blanks live video) That's the mode I'm planning to use it in. >> vidgen -> TTX board. >> Anyway, I'll see if my PICDREAM video generator can generate a good >> enough signal for the TTX board to generate some form of video >> signal. The 5281 > I doubt the PICDREAM will produce a valid teletext data stream... I don't want it to generate a TTX data stream. I want it to generate a video signal for the TTX to lock onto and the Cub to sync to. I don't care if it has no TTX data to lock onto - I can just load its RAM and send it a "DISPLAY ON" command. >> Oh, how I wish I had a TX91G service manual so I could find out just >> how this pesky thing works and what Thomson originally designed it >> to use... The > Have you tried the local public library? Main ones often have the > Radio and Television Servicing books, and the TX91 is likely to be in > one of those. Alas my only collection of such books only goes up to > 1981. Might be worth a shot. Thanks. Now, I wonder if the central library is open on a Saturday... > Be warned that when they changed the teletext decoder board they may > also have changed the control microcontroller. So it's not definite > that your board repsonds to the same commands as the SAA52xx series. I think I've got the MCU somewhere. Don't know if it still works, though. >> Know anyone that stocks the SAA5243? Can't find it on Farnell's >> site, nor does my CPC catalogue list it. > Grandata used to do it (I bought one from there to use in a very > simple I2C colour video display (4 chips IIRC -- the SAA5243, a > 74LS04 (clock oscillator, mostly), a 6264 RAM and a 74LS244 (output > buffer)). Ooh - another company to track down :-) > See if you can track down the Teletext PCB from a Thomson ICC5 > chassis. It would be ideal for you. There are several versions, but > every one I've seen contains an SAA5243, SAA5231 and a 6264 RAM. Some > have a custom on-screen-display chip that you can easily desolder (to > keep it off the bus). The support components are there too. From what > I remmeber you need to feed it +12V (and/or +5V, I forget just what > PSU components are on-board) and composite video. It's got a standard > I2C bus to control it. The RGB outputs are transistor-buffered to > strange levels, but you can either add a few more transistors to make > them sane again or tap the signals off the SAA5243 pins. Time to track down a junked ICC5 chassis. Anyone on here got one they don't mind pulling the Teletext board out of? :-) >> I'll see if I can persuade the TTX board to generate any video >> tonight. I've got a Tek 466 storage scope and a Gould OS1100A in >> case I need an extra two channels. Anyone know of a source for Tek >> 1x/10x probes? The 466 seems to want the ring around the BNC >> connector shorting to the shield (GND) to push it into 10x mode. >> Guess how many probes I've found that do that... That's > That only sets the on-screen display and/or the lamps on the range > switch. It doesn't actually affect the operation of the 'scope (the > probe is a passive /10 divider, the 'scope will always display the > signal it receives). You can use any probe with the 466 (provided you > can match it to the input capacitance of the 'scope), the extra > contact is just to make it easier to read the range switch, etc. Ah, right. So it doesn't matter if I use, say, a Velleman "professional" 10x probe and leave the outer contact unconnected? Or I could just shove a piece of tinfoil in there to short it out... > IIRC, that pin is shorted to ground for the 'identify' mode (moves the > trace vertically slightly and changes the on-screen-display to > 'INDENTIFY' so you can tell which trace corresponds to the probe). > It's connected to ground via a rrsistor to tell the 'scope what > division ratio the probe is. Older 'scopes just support *1 > (open-circuit) and *10. Later ones support *100 (and maybe others) > too. The 466 seems to support 1x/10x only. No OSD either. The trace does look a bit "grainy", but I guess that's because it's a storage scope. BTW, anyone interested in a Gould OS1100A? 30MHz, delay sweep, single timebase, dual channel, no manual, a bit heavy. Make me an offer - buyer collects or sends a courier round for it. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sat Sep 14 06:44:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Available - UK- Tricom Custodian II Network Security Controller Message-ID: <3D83210F.4ACDA371@naffnet.org.uk> Hi, Looking for a home is a Tricom Custodian II network security controller. This is a device that sits between modems and equipment to be protected (host computer/terminal server etc.), and provides a layer of extra security, including ring-back. This is a 19" rack-mounting unit with dual (one redundant) power supplies. The frame itself consists of a backplane that accepts HD63B09 (6809 compatible) SBCs, each controlling two host/modem pails (four serial lines). The frame accepts one Supervisory Module. and up to 16 Line modules (the cards are distinguished only by their firmware). The Supervisory Module has connects to a serial log printer and a terminal. With the frame comes the SM and four LMs, and cables to suit (so up to eight lines could be protected). There is a manual, too, but I have put it in a safe place, so it'll have to follow the unit when it re-surfaces. The system is menu-driven, and is fairly intuitive, so this should not be a problem. I am looking for some sort of swap:- I would love a KA655 CPU for my uVAX, perhaps with some (up to two) 16MB memory cards to suit, or a very basic EIS '11 QBUS system (no need for storage, just CPU/serial/memory). I am, of course, open to other offers... The beast weighs in the region of 12Kg, plus cables, so collection might be the best option (west Berkshire), although I'm sure that Parcel Force would appreciate the business. Cheers, Dave. From MTPro at aol.com Sat Sep 14 07:18:01 2002 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Need power plug Message-ID: <119.17544e86.2ab48306@aol.com> Would anyone have an extra power plug they could sell me for my generic S-100 computer? Somehow mine must have gotten given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a picture to anyone who needs to verify. I haven't had it up and running for a couple of years now, and I would like to. I'm really hoping to make it for the first time to the VCF West this year! Thanks very much, David David Greelish Classic Computing www.classiccomputing.com "classiccomputing" on eBay From martinm at allwest.net Sat Sep 14 07:52:00 2002 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Have DG AV530s, need media/docs References: <200209140712.g8E7CJR02830@buserr.crash.com> Message-ID: <3D833137.5FEECF28@allwest.net> Steve Jones wrote: > > I've recently come into posession of two working Data General > AViiON AV530 workstations, and an as-yet un-tested AV410. > Copyrights on the PCBs indicate a 1990 provenence so I think > I'm okay WRT list rules... ;^) > > First question: Anybody have bootable media that they could > see fit to duplicate or loan? None of the BSDs seem > to have made it to the DG m88k boxes, though many > people have asked and some work has been done. > (Last time I checked was a while ago, though...) I have a couple of versions of dg/ux on tape and CD. Let me check which versions and what media. I'll let you know. > > Second: Anybody have docs for this model, paper or 'lectronic? Try www-csc.dg.com/csc/ > > Third: The AV530s are dual-capable - can I just pull the CPU from > one AV530 and pop it on top of the connector blocks > on the other AV530? Wouldn't mind hearing from someone > before I discover the answer myself via a smoke test... > There are jumpers that are labeled clearly WRT running > sinle- or dual-processor, but is there anything else I > need to know? > > Thanks, > --Steve. From fastluck at email.com Sat Sep 14 08:13:00 2002 From: fastluck at email.com (John Reynolds) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Hp-85B is really an HP-85? Message-ID: <3D8334F2.000008.01212@BERETTA> I purchased 4 HP-85Bs at auction yesterday. I was browsing information on HPs at http://www.finseth.com/~fin/hpdata/serial.html, and discovered that one of my "new" machines was manufactured in February, 1982. That's 16 months before the 85B was released, as I understand it. Here's the serial number: 2210A60158. If the first two digits are the number of years since 1960, it was manufactured in 1982. If the next two are the number of weeks since a certain week in November, it was manufactured sometime in February. Is that right? If the HP-85Bs were released on June 1, 1983, this one was either a prototype that rolled off the 85A assembly line, or it's an 85-A in disguise. Do the 85B covers fit the 85A? If so, there's a hapless soul with an 85B that thinks it's an 85. And I own both models. Something else that's interesting: This particular model had an older-style riveted-on serial number plate, while the other three had newer stickers. It s also the only one with a 82936A ROM DRAWER. This drawer has the 00085-15002 PLOTTER/PRINTER ROM. I don't think that's significant, but maybe?? One other thing: The FCC-ID on three models ends with 85B. The model in question either hasn't got one, or I can't find it. If you can shed any light, please do so. I plan to keep one and sell off the other three. If I'm selling an 85-A, I want to make sure that's what I'm advertising. In fact, I may just want to keep two of them. Also, how much is an 85-A worth? I can't find them for sale anywhere. Cheers, John From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Sep 14 09:19:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Nifty Find - HP2644A References: Message-ID: <3D8345EE.70100@tiac.net> Yeah, well, Tom Uban has located a rebuilder that does do exactly what I described, at a very high price, with no garuntee they won't destroy the tube in the process. BTW, the CRT on HP terminals is VERY unique, it has an unsusal aspect ration, which also means that it has a rather unusual deflection asseembly. The tube is about 3 times wider than it is tall! Tony Duell wrote: >>The CRT problem is bad, there is no reasonable treatment, but you can >>have the tube rebuilt >>at a very high cost. Or you may get lucky and find that some of my >>CRT's are in better shape. >> > >The CRT rebuilders I've come across can replace the electron gun assembly >(and sometimes rebuild the gun if a replacement is unavailable), but they >can't generally do much with the screen or glass envelope. There may be >people who can rebond a bonded faceplate, but if so they are very few and >far between. > >-tony > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020914/4a9431fd/attachment.html From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Sep 14 09:28:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... References: <000401c25ab4$f5769e40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> <3D8216E0.6060304@tiac.net> <3D823989.4010409@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3D83480A.6010307@tiac.net> No on-line docs, but I have full schematics for the PDS-1. Not easily scannable... But to turn this into a FPGA processor, a MAJOR redesign is needed. The current design is highly dependant on RC pulse shaping networks, one-shots, etc. The memory timing is very core-specific, and some modifications were needed for it to use modern semiconductor memory. So to implement this on a chip, a new CPU needs to be designed just about from the ground up, using modern design methods. About all you really need is the instruction set information, the original schematics are not much of a help here due to the design methods used by Imlac back in 1968 and 1969. Its really amazing to see how much engineers did not know back then. Its also amazing that the Imlac worked at all, given how it was implemented back then. Ben Franchuk wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > >> How about a ReImlac? >> >> The Imlac CPU is amazingly simple, and would be an ideal project for >> re-implementation on a FPGA. > > do you know of any DOCS on the web for the hardware/software details? > > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Sep 14 09:46:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Illegal Possession of Controlled Devices (was: References: <3D8231ED.7040307@tiac.net> <20020914005317.GA876@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3D834C57.3010600@tiac.net> Or just use the trick from Enemy of the State, where you call in a complaint against the van, claiming that people are sitting in there doing drugs! R. D. Davis wrote: >Quothe Bob Shannon, from writings of Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 02:43:57PM -0400: > >>No no, you find the monitoring van.....or remote recorder setup... >> > >...and pipe some laughing gas in there for the humor-impaired droids >of Big Brother inside, or place a big magnet in the right place, close >to the tape reels, inconspicuously? :-) I also rather like the idea of >spray painting a big peace symbol with the words "Birds do it, we do >it. Wanna do it with us? Come on in, anyone!" below it, on the van, >while they're busy inside with their spook stuff, along with the words >"If this vans a rockin' don't come a knockin'." Wow, wait until the >spooks step outside and see that! They'd freak out! :-) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020914/6b8f6850/attachment.html From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Sep 14 09:51:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) References: Message-ID: <3D834D6A.2090702@tiac.net> I've got a spare 12821A to CS/80 drive cable, no need to build one! Glen Slick wrote: > I did get a private reply with a temporary pointer to the CS/80 spec > so I now have a copy. > > Thanks to some help from Bob I got past the HP 2117F power supply > issue so now the box is not totally dead. Some day after I figure out > a lot more about how this system works I'll have to try building an > HPIB cable to connect to the 12821A disc interface in the system and > see if I can get it to talk to one of my CS/80 drives. Apparently > this box has a CS/80 boot prom which I have been told is not too common. > > -Glen > > > >> From: Joe >> Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Re: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) >> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:14:48 >> >> At 11:22 PM 9/12/02 -0700, you wrote: >> >Does anyone on the list have a copy of this manual that can be >> copied or >> >scanned, or is there a scanned copy on the net somewhere already? >> >> >> I think Frank McConnell has one. He used to be on this list but I >> haven't seen anything from him in quite a spell. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > From listor at melin.org Sat Sep 14 10:24:21 2002 From: listor at melin.org (Joacim Melin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Deskstation Raptor 3 for sale. Message-ID: <002701c25c03$04cf58b0$f401a8c0@vallentuna.melin.org> Available in the Stockholm, Sweden area, I have to get rid of some computers due to the wife-is-getting-sort-of-mad-at-this-computer-collecting-business-problem and this one must go : Deskstation Raptor 3, featuring : Full Tower Case Alpha 21164 UniFlex Motherboard 4 PCI / 3 ISA slots Dual SCSI II ports 2 serial / 1 parallel ports 1.44 Floppy Drive 96MB RAM / 2MB SRAM Cache 1.9GB SCSI II Hard Drive S3 something VGA card (will produce 1024x768 in 16bit color) 10/100 NIC with Digital chipset that works great with NT4 The computer works great. The only thing that needs replacing are two 8cm fans that was mounted in the front panel of the case. They were completely shot and I removed them a while ago. Please email any bids, small or large to joacim at melin dot org. I will ship wherever but please bare in mind that this box runs on 220 volts power and purchaser will pay for all shipping costs and other fees. I don't have any illusions of making a ton of money out of this box but I want it to find a good home and not being dumped somewhere, which is what will happen if I don't find a new owner for it. To sum up - it's a great box. It won't run Linux or any flavor of BSD but it's still a great machine to run as a server. I have tried to boot the Windows 2000 RC1 beta on it but it never get's pass the boot screen... Joacim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020914/1f8648e5/attachment.html From allain at panix.com Sat Sep 14 10:25:02 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) References: <3D834D6A.2090702@tiac.net> Message-ID: <005a01c25c02$d0a724a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Bob Shannon, While you're going to all the trouble to make all these replies, please make the effort to respond to my eMail. Thanks, John A. From foo at siconic.com Sat Sep 14 10:38:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Hp-85B is really an HP-85? In-Reply-To: <3D8334F2.000008.01212@BERETTA> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Sep 2002, John Reynolds wrote: > Also, how much is an 85-A worth? I can't find them for sale anywhere. $35 is reasonable providing it comes with the necessary ROM packs, a manual and it works (including the tape drive). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Sep 14 10:55:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... References: <000401c25ab4$f5769e40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> <3D8216E0.6060304@tiac.net> <3D823989.4010409@jetnet.ab.ca> <3D83480A.6010307@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3D835B30.4090808@jetnet.ab.ca> Bob Shannon wrote: > No on-line docs, but I have full schematics for the PDS-1. Not easily > scannable... > > But to turn this into a FPGA processor, a MAJOR redesign is needed. The > current design is highly dependant > on RC pulse shaping networks, one-shots, etc. The memory timing is very > core-specific, and some modifications > were needed for it to use modern semiconductor memory. > > So to implement this on a chip, a new CPU needs to be designed just > about from the ground up, using modern design methods. About all you > really need is the instruction set information, the original schematics > are not much of a help here due to the design methods used by Imlac back > in 1968 and 1969. > > Its really amazing to see how much engineers did not know back then. Its > also amazing that the Imlac worked at all, given how it was implemented > back then. > It is not that they did not know better, that is all they had to work with. Mind you cost cutting often did not help any computer product.The real problem is the Imlac is VECTOR display. Finding a new CRT would be a problem with the original design. A raster scan display design could be used but then you need to buffer the display correctly to have unrefreshed data fade off the screen. From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Sep 14 10:56:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) References: <3D834D6A.2090702@tiac.net> <005a01c25c02$d0a724a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3D835C91.7030002@tiac.net> Check your inbox! John Allain wrote: >Bob Shannon, > While you're going to all the trouble to make all these replies, > please make the effort to respond to my eMail. > >Thanks, John A. > > > From wonko at 4amlunch.net Sat Sep 14 12:07:00 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Who was looking for old VMS for an 11/750?? Message-ID: <20020914130736.H3493@marvin.4amlunch.net> email me off list. i might be able to help you out. -brian -- i'm trying to use a windows shell function to move a directory... and it reports that it failed with the error "the operation completed successfully" From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Sep 14 12:47:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... References: <000401c25ab4$f5769e40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> <3D8216E0.6060304@tiac.net> <3D823989.4010409@jetnet.ab.ca> <3D83480A.6010307@tiac.net> <3D835B30.4090808@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3D837699.4030203@tiac.net> Ben Franchuk wrote: > It is not that they did not know better, that is all they had to work > with. Clearly you haven't looked at the Imlac schematics! Engineers designed lots of hardware of the same era without resorting to the kinds of tricks used in the Imlac. Did you know that each Imlac had to have RC networks that control its clocks and timing signals tuned by hand, for each unit? The components used were garden variety ceramic caps with very loose tolerances, not poly or other higher quality components. The issue here is the quality of hardware engineering. HP machines of the same period are vastly better engineered, as are many other machines from the late '60's and early 70's. To suggest that nothing better was available to the engineering team at Imlac is laughable at best. > > Mind you cost cutting often did not help any computer product.The real > problem > is the Imlac is VECTOR display. Finding a new CRT would be a problem > with the > original design. A raster scan display design could be used but then you > need to buffer the display correctly to have unrefreshed data fade off > the screen. The vector display has nothing to do with the design quality whatsoever! What makes you say something like this Ben? For what the Imlac did, when it did it, VECTOR was FAR SUPERIOR to raster displays. Please note, the Imlac had a 1024 by 1024 addressable display, prior to 1970. This greatly exceeds what was possible with raster graphics at the time, and the Imlac was designed for calligraphic applications where its short vectors made for a mugh higher quality display than a pixellated raster display of the same resolution would have. There is also the fact that manipulating raster display is far more computationally intensive than manipulating a vector display list. The Imlac CPU would not be well suited for raster graphics at all, but its more than sufficient for its intended use. The problems with the Imlac are issues of engineering quality, like the total lack of decoupling capacitors, poor grounding, and poor logic design. This is also reflected in the manufacturing of early units in the failue to wash the etchant off the boards (many Imlac boards now have fuzzy green etches, or no remaining etches at all) and poor metal preperation prior to painting, and the fact that the design was very quickly repackaged as the PDS-1D's. The CRT used in the Imlac was common enough in its day, and that same tube was also used in much higher quality products as well. The last comment about the display refesh is hard to understand. The Imlac does not use a storage tube, and it must keep the display refreshed in the same way as any raster graphics display does. I'm not at all sure I understand your point here, can you expand on this point? If your suggesting re-implementing the Imlac with a raster display, this is totally impractical. My ReImlac project will use a real vector display, as that is the only way to duplicate the capabilities of the original machine. Remember, the Imlac does not have jagged vectors even when drawing at any angle. To try to do this on a raster display would reqire a resolution far far greater than 1024 by 1024. The anti-alising along would take more logic than the full original machine does. On the other hand, a Wells Gardner vector monitor is more than able to display the vector video from an Imlac exactly the way a real Imlac does. So will most small oscilloscopes, or even a modified TV monitor. Small vector display monitors are fairly common on eBay at very affordable prices. So whats the problem with a vector display? To be true to the original, I'm sticking with a true vector display. After all, I'm quite addicted to vector (and point plot) displays, and this was my main attraction to the Imlac. If this were replaced by a raster display, you might as well run a software emulator and not bother re-implementing the Imlac in hardware at all. The vector display of the Imlac is a thing of beauty and is a huge part of what makes an Imlac so unique. To call this "...the real problem..." is heracy! From jwillis at arielusa.com Sat Sep 14 13:33:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Who was looking for old VMS for an 11/750?? Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6A9@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> I'm looking for an actual 11/750 system. but this message has piqued my curiosity. Do 11/750s not run the VMS hobbyist kit from montagar? -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hechinger Sent: Sat 9/14/2002 11:07 AM To: Classic CMP Cc: Subject: Who was looking for old VMS for an 11/750?? email me off list. i might be able to help you out. -brian -- i'm trying to use a windows shell function to move a directory... and it reports that it failed with the error "the operation completed successfully" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3942 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020914/8b0bb22b/attachment.bin From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sat Sep 14 14:28:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <3D837699.4030203@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20020914192906.69812.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> I don't think it's fair (except for the not washing the boards properly part) to say this was badly engineered. There might have been cost issues that we can only guess about. I worked at company that made terminals. I asked how come there were only a few bypass caps instead of the traditional one per chip, and the chief engineer (who wrote The famous Microcomputer Design book, Don Martin of Martin Research), who definitely knew how to build things, told me that the board would start with them all in. Then they would be removed until the board stopped working. Then they'd put that one back in! Seriously, they would look at the power supply and use just enough with a little extra margin. Costs add up, same with poly caps, crystals (which used to cost a lot more than they do now), etc. Maybe an engineer would have liked to use a part, but just couldn't get it simply because of supply condsiderations. Skilled assy line labor used to be cheaper, too. Everyone on our assy line knew how to use a scope, and often using one was part of the assy process. So at that time it was cheaper to have a tech/assy line person tweek a pot than it was to put in a crystal. It's my understanding that electrommagnetic deflected vector displays take very, very high-power deflection coils and drivers, and this is where the real money is in these units. I don't know if the Imlac is electrostatic or electromagnetic deflection (electromagnetic, I suspect). I am working on a TTL-based vector display (128x128 dots only), from a 1975ish BYTE maganize. I'm using a Tektronix 620 display, which I can get for $15 in clean, paint, and use condition from a local surplus place. --- Bob Shannon wrote: > Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > > It is not that they did not know better, that is > all they had to work > > with. > > > Clearly you haven't looked at the Imlac schematics! > Engineers designed > lots of hardware > of the same era without resorting to the kinds of > tricks used in the > Imlac. > > Did you know that each Imlac had to have RC networks > that control its > clocks and timing signals > tuned by hand, for each unit? The components used > were garden variety > ceramic caps with very > loose tolerances, not poly or other higher quality > components. The issue > here is the quality of hardware > engineering. HP machines of the same period are > vastly better > engineered, as are many other machines > from the late '60's and early 70's. > > To suggest that nothing better was available to the > engineering team at > Imlac is laughable at best. > > > > > Mind you cost cutting often did not help any > computer product.The real > > problem > > is the Imlac is VECTOR display. Finding a new CRT > would be a problem > > with the > > original design. A raster scan display design > could be used but then you > > need to buffer the display correctly to have > unrefreshed data fade off > > the screen. > > > The vector display has nothing to do with the design > quality whatsoever! > > What makes you say something like this Ben? For > what the Imlac did, > when it did it, VECTOR was > FAR SUPERIOR to raster displays. > > Please note, the Imlac had a 1024 by 1024 > addressable display, prior to > 1970. This greatly exceeds what > was possible with raster graphics at the time, and > the Imlac was > designed for calligraphic applications where > its short vectors made for a mugh higher quality > display than a > pixellated raster display of the same resolution > would have. There is also the fact that > manipulating raster display is > far more computationally intensive than > manipulating a vector display list. The Imlac CPU > would not be well > suited for raster graphics at all, but its more > than sufficient for its intended use. > > The problems with the Imlac are issues of > engineering quality, like the > total lack of decoupling capacitors, poor > grounding, and poor logic design. This is also > reflected in the > manufacturing of early units in the failue to wash > the > etchant off the boards (many Imlac boards now have > fuzzy green etches, > or no remaining etches at all) and poor metal > preperation prior to > painting, and the fact that the design was very > quickly repackaged as > the PDS-1D's. > > The CRT used in the Imlac was common enough in its > day, and that same > tube was also used in much higher quality products > as well. > > The last comment about the display refesh is hard to > understand. The > Imlac does not use a storage tube, and it > must keep the display refreshed in the same way as > any raster graphics > display does. I'm not at all sure I understand your > point here, can you > expand on this point? > > If your suggesting re-implementing the Imlac with a > raster display, this > is totally impractical. My ReImlac project will use > a real vector > display, as that is the only way to duplicate the > capabilities of the > original machine. Remember, the Imlac does not have > jagged vectors even > when drawing at any angle. To try to do this on a > raster display would > reqire a resolution far far greater than 1024 by > 1024. The anti-alising > along would take more logic than the full original > machine does. > > On the other hand, a Wells Gardner vector monitor is > more than able to > display the vector video from an Imlac exactly the > way a real Imlac > does. So will most small oscilloscopes, or even a > modified TV monitor. > Small vector display monitors are fairly common on > eBay at very > affordable prices. So whats the problem with a > vector display? > > To be true to the original, I'm sticking with a true > vector display. > After all, I'm quite addicted to vector (and point > plot) displays, and > this was my main attraction to the Imlac. If this > were replaced by a > raster display, you might as well run a software > emulator and not bother > re-implementing the Imlac in hardware at all. > > The vector display of the Imlac is a thing of beauty > and is a huge part > of what makes an Imlac so unique. To call this > "...the real problem..." > is heracy! > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From wonko at 4amlunch.net Sat Sep 14 14:32:00 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Who was looking for old VMS for an 11/750?? In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6A9@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM>; from jwillis@arielusa.com on Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 12:33:51PM -0600 References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6A9@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> Message-ID: <20020914153215.K3493@marvin.4amlunch.net> On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 12:33:51PM -0600, John Willis wrote: > I'm looking for an actual 11/750 system. but this message has > piqued my curiosity. Do 11/750s not run the VMS hobbyist > kit from montagar? * The minimum memory requirement for OpenVMS Vax Version 7.2 is 4 megabytes. Additional components, such as DECnet for OpenVMS VAX, DIGITAL TCP/IP Services, or VAXcluster, require more memory to ensure satisfactory performance. * The MA780 shared memory is not supported. * You cannot install or upgrade to the OpenVMS VAX Version 7.2 operating system on the following VAX computers and system disks: Computers: MicroVAX I, VAXstation I, VAXstation 8000, VAX--11/725, and VAX--11/782 System disks: RK07, RL02, RC25, RD32, RD51, RD52, RD53, RZ22, RZ25, and RZ23L so the answer is, with enough memory, and the right disks, yes you can. however, the reasons for running pre-7.2 are usually nostalgic. i run 7.2 on all my machines, but only because i'm new to VMS and don't need the added confusion of multiple versions. plus there is the fact that i have all my VAXen clustered, so they all need to be about the same version. for nostalgia, i have an 11/750 that has 4.3 BSD on it since that was where i had my first unix account in college. -brian -- "Oh, shut up Buddha." -Jesus Christ (South Park) From jwillis at arielusa.com Sat Sep 14 15:52:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Who was looking for old VMS for an 11/750?? Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6AA@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> Cool. So you have an 11/750. I'm curious, what did you do about powering it? I heard they require three-phase 240V power. best john -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hechinger Sent: Sat 9/14/2002 1:32 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: Who was looking for old VMS for an 11/750?? On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 12:33:51PM -0600, John Willis wrote: > I'm looking for an actual 11/750 system. but this message has > piqued my curiosity. Do 11/750s not run the VMS hobbyist > kit from montagar? * The minimum memory requirement for OpenVMS Vax Version 7.2 is 4 megabytes. Additional components, such as DECnet for OpenVMS VAX, DIGITAL TCP/IP Services, or VAXcluster, require more memory to ensure satisfactory performance. * The MA780 shared memory is not supported. * You cannot install or upgrade to the OpenVMS VAX Version 7.2 operating system on the following VAX computers and system disks: Computers: MicroVAX I, VAXstation I, VAXstation 8000, VAX--11/725, and VAX--11/782 System disks: RK07, RL02, RC25, RD32, RD51, RD52, RD53, RZ22, RZ25, and RZ23L so the answer is, with enough memory, and the right disks, yes you can. however, the reasons for running pre-7.2 are usually nostalgic. i run 7.2 on all my machines, but only because i'm new to VMS and don't need the added confusion of multiple versions. plus there is the fact that i have all my VAXen clustered, so they all need to be about the same version. for nostalgia, i have an 11/750 that has 4.3 BSD on it since that was where i had my first unix account in college. -brian -- "Oh, shut up Buddha." -Jesus Christ (South Park) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3400 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020914/df077d29/attachment.bin From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Sep 14 15:54:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... References: <000401c25ab4$f5769e40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> <3D8216E0.6060304@tiac.net> <3D823989.4010409@jetnet.ab.ca> <3D83480A.6010307@tiac.net> <3D835B30.4090808@jetnet.ab.ca> <3D837699.4030203@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3D83A114.90800@jetnet.ab.ca> Bob Shannon wrote: > To suggest that nothing better was available to the engineering team at > Imlac is laughable at best. Ok I did not look at the schematic. > What makes you say something like this Ben? For what the Imlac did, > when it did it, VECTOR was > FAR SUPERIOR to raster displays. I agree the VECTOR display is the way to go. > Please note, the Imlac had a 1024 by 1024 addressable display, prior to > 1970. This greatly exceeds what > was possible with raster graphics at the time, and the Imlac was > designed for calligraphic applications where > its short vectors made for a mugh higher quality display than a > pixellated raster display of the same resolution > would have. There is also the fact that manipulating raster display is > far more computationally intensive than > manipulating a vector display list. The Imlac CPU would not be well > suited for raster graphics at all, but its more > than sufficient for its intended use. I was thinking with the lack of modern CRT tubes implimenting the VECTOR display will be rather difficult. > The problems with the Imlac are issues of engineering quality, like the > total lack of decoupling capacitors, poor > grounding, and poor logic design. This is also reflected in the > manufacturing of early units in the failue to wash the > etchant off the boards (many Imlac boards now have fuzzy green etches, > or no remaining etches at all) and poor metal preperation prior to > painting, and the fact that the design was very quickly repackaged as > the PDS-1D's. Good point. > The CRT used in the Imlac was common enough in its day, and that same > tube was also used in much higher quality products as well. > On the other hand, a Wells Gardner vector monitor is more than able to > display the vector video from an Imlac exactly the way a real Imlac > does. So will most small oscilloscopes, or even a modified TV monitor. > Small vector display monitors are fairly common on eBay at very > affordable prices. So whats the problem with a vector display? Where? That is something I never knew. > To be true to the original, I'm sticking with a true vector display. > After all, I'm quite addicted to vector (and point plot) displays, and > this was my main attraction to the Imlac. If this were replaced by a > raster display, you might as well run a software emulator and not bother > re-implementing the Imlac in hardware at all. > > The vector display of the Imlac is a thing of beauty and is a huge part > of what makes an Imlac so unique. To call this "...the real problem..." > is heracy! > I am saying creating a good design will be rather difficult.I would like to see this implimented as a new design, You are right vector is the way to go. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 14 16:07:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Nifty Find - HP2644A In-Reply-To: <20020914035053.95773.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> from "Loboyko Steve" at Sep 13, 2 08:50:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1925 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020914/3eb79c0f/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Sep 14 16:17:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <20020914192906.69812.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3D837699.4030203@tiac.net> <20020914192906.69812.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <34222.64.169.63.74.1032038277.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I asked how come there were only a few > bypass caps instead of the traditional one per chip, > and the chief engineer (who wrote The famous > Microcomputer Design book, Don Martin of Martin > Research), who definitely knew how to build things, > told me that the board would start with them all in. > Then they would be removed until the board stopped > working. Then they'd put that one back in! The Earl "Madman" Muntz approach. Just because you think he knew how to build things didn't make that good engineering practice. You should have *more* bypass caps than you need under normal conditions, because there will be real-world conditions that don't match your lab bench. There are definitely ways to determine a reasonable minimum number of bypass capacitors as an engineering exercise, but this is MUCH more complicated than taking them out until the product breaks, and adding one back in. In particular, it's not just the total count of bypass capacitors that's important. They have to be in the right places. Just because they're conceptually all in parallel doesn't mean that they can be anywhere on the board. The power and ground traces (or planes) have resistance and inductance, which is part of the reason that you need bypass capacitors in the first place. So the bypass capacitors must be physically near the components that have large current fluctuations. "One per chip" or "one per two chips" are rules of thumb that can be used with some kinds of logic chips to get reasonably bypassing without having to do detailed analysis. Yes, you can get by with less, but not simply by randomly removing some and hoping for the best. How do I know this is a problem? From personal experience with two companies that left out bypass capacitors despite the objections of the hardware engineer, because it still seemed to work OK in the lab. In both cases, I had to debug the resulting problems, which were blamed on software. At first I believed it was the software, but eventually I discovered that adding the bypass capacitor back into the circuit fixed the problem. Once I'd finally proven this to management, it was ECO'd back in. In one case, a bunch of inventory had to be reworked (expensive!), and in the other case, the inventory was scrapped. But the worst part was the units already in the field. RMAs cost a *lot* of money. > Seriously, > they would look at the power supply and use just > enough with a little extra margin. You can't determine how many bypass capacitors you need by looking at the power supply. > It's my understanding that electrommagnetic deflected > vector displays take very, very high-power deflection > coils and drivers, and this is where the real money is > in these units. I don't know if the Imlac is > electrostatic or electromagnetic deflection > (electromagnetic, I suspect). That has *nothing* to do with using lots of RC delays in the design of the digital logic of a processor. I won't go so far as to say that doing so is always wrong, but you would need an awful lot of justification for doing it. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 14 16:18:16 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:21 2005 Subject: 6845 CRTC, Microvitec VDU/BBC Micro sync waveforms (was Re: CoCo's *are* real...) In-Reply-To: <002701c25bc0$32a4ba20$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Sep 14, 2 08:27:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1671 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020914/66fba2f4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 14 16:28:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Nifty Find - HP2644A In-Reply-To: <3D8345EE.70100@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Sep 14, 2 10:21:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 829 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020914/b9cab585/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Sat Sep 14 16:50:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Early Mac Message-ID: I saw a Mac at a thrift today that I assume must be one of the 128k Macs. It is a Model M0001 and there is not a mini-DIN to be found on it. Just D-subs and an RJ-11 on the front for the keyboard. It runs too - or it would like to if it had a disk. Is my 128k Mac surmise correct? - don From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Sep 14 17:17:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Early Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <013401c25c3c$9abee4b0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Don, If the nameplate on the back says "Macintosh" and nothing else, it is the original 128K Mac. I'm pretty sure the M0001 designation was used exclusively for that model and that the Macintosh 128K which shipped concurrently with the Macintosh 512K had a different number. Erik www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Don Maslin Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 2:51 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Early Mac I saw a Mac at a thrift today that I assume must be one of the 128k Macs. It is a Model M0001 and there is not a mini-DIN to be found on it. Just D-subs and an RJ-11 on the front for the keyboard. It runs too - or it would like to if it had a disk. Is my 128k Mac surmise correct? - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 14 18:33:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <20020914192906.69812.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> from "Loboyko Steve" at Sep 14, 2 12:29:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1208 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020914/8209dc9f/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sat Sep 14 19:30:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Early Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Sep 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > Macs. It is a Model M0001 and there is not a mini-DIN to be found on it. > Just D-subs and an RJ-11 on the front for the keyboard. It runs too - or > it would like to if it had a disk. > > Is my 128k Mac surmise correct? If it has no badge on the backside that has "Macintosh 128K" or "Macintosh 512K" then it is indeed an original Mac. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Sep 14 19:35:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020912143611.10e7ce1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020912143611.10e7ce1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020915005506.GB2553@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Joe, from writings of Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 02:36:11PM +0000: > No, they won't use the IRS. They'll use Bush's new SUPER Agency. I > think the name for it is going to be "Gestapo"! Are you sure? I thought that I heard someone say that "Gestapo" would be a bad name to use, since the Gestapo was considered too gentle, weak and ineffective compared to what the Hillary & Bush administrations want... but remember, they only want to help you! -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Sep 14 19:42:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: TU-58 tape drives and melted capstans (was Re: HP Protocol Analyzers) In-Reply-To: <20020912170452.87457.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200209112231.PAA29590@clulw009.amd.com> <20020912170452.87457.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020915010128.GC2553@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Ethan Dicks, from writings of Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 10:04:52AM -0700: > Interesting offer, but Allison's suggestion of Tygon > tubing seems to be working just fine. I bought a Some people have also had success with hoses from auto parts stores, or from their own supplies of spare auto parts. Are there any benefits to using tygon instead of rubber? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From redodd at comcast.net Sat Sep 14 21:44:00 2002 From: redodd at comcast.net (Ralph E. Dodd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: brand new AT&T 458 daisy wheel printer Message-ID: <004001c25c61$d48e8bd0$35d02544@redmlca1yovgxi> Hello, Today I acquired a BRAND NEW AT&T model 458 serial daisy wheel printer. It's in the original wrapping. It has a printout saying Printer AT&T 458 Number 7829177, then it has a vertical alignment test. If someone wants this before I open the original packing, let me know. Ralph -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020914/0ab44169/attachment.html From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sat Sep 14 21:57:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: brand new AT&T 458 daisy wheel printer In-Reply-To: <004001c25c61$d48e8bd0$35d02544@redmlca1yovgxi>; from redodd@comcast.net on Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 10:44:35PM -0400 References: <004001c25c61$d48e8bd0$35d02544@redmlca1yovgxi> Message-ID: <20020914195731.A26696@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 10:44:35PM -0400, Ralph E. Dodd wrote: > Today I acquired a BRAND NEW AT&T model 458 serial daisy wheel printer. > It's in the original wrapping. It has a printout saying Printer AT&T 458 > Number 7829177, then it has a vertical alignment test. If someone wants > this before I open the original packing, let me know. I've reformatted your text. Where is the printer and how heavy is it? -- Derek From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sat Sep 14 22:13:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <34222.64.169.63.74.1032038277.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20020915031319.7977.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> Well, the point I was making was that financial pressures sometimes make things that started out well designed not well built. Interesting you brought up Muntz - although his televisions were made from pure evil (running tubes in parallel to get the 6.3v, fer instance), he did make cheap TV's that less wealthy people could buy, that worked fairly well as long as you were in a big city, and until it broke. I have the schematics for the Xerox/Diablo HyType II printer here - made by a company with quite considerable engineering and manufacturing know-how - and what you describe happened in this design, someone took out too many bypass caps, then someone ECO'd them back in. And this was not a "cheap" printer. Obviously, someone tried to shave every nickel. I know that in super-high volume products, engineers do have to fight for every single part - because this cost board space, stocking, etc, and so on. A 0.005 cent resistor actually costs quite a bit more more on the board. But this is a classic engineering/cost engineering problem, common in any kind of engineering/manufacturing endeavor. If engineers had their way, blank check, to make a "perfect" product, no one would be able to afford any of the "goodies" we have today. But, I state the obvious. I marvel at how well the HP2644A I have is built. But really, did it have to be built so well that it would be working 27 years later, long after it was obsolete? The original purchaser paid for a lot more than they used. HP used to make the best stuff. But if they still made stuff that way, they would be out of business. Such is the world we live in. --- Eric Smith wrote: > > I asked how come there were only a few > > bypass caps instead of the traditional one per > chip, > > and the chief engineer (who wrote The famous > > Microcomputer Design book, Don Martin of Martin > > Research), who definitely knew how to build > things, > > told me that the board would start with them all > in. > > Then they would be removed until the board stopped > > working. Then they'd put that one back in! > > The Earl "Madman" Muntz approach. Just because you > think he knew > how to build things didn't make that good > engineering practice. > You should have *more* bypass caps than you need > under normal > conditions, because there will be real-world > conditions that > don't match your lab bench. > > There are definitely ways to determine a reasonable > minimum number > of bypass capacitors as an engineering exercise, but > this is MUCH > more complicated than taking them out until the > product breaks, and > adding one back in. In particular, it's not just > the total count > of bypass capacitors that's important. They have to > be in the > right places. Just because they're conceptually all > in parallel > doesn't mean that they can be anywhere on the board. > The power and > ground traces (or planes) have resistance and > inductance, which is > part of the reason that you need bypass capacitors > in the first place. > So the bypass capacitors must be physically near the > components that > have large current fluctuations. > > "One per chip" or "one per two chips" are rules of > thumb that can be > used with some kinds of logic chips to get > reasonably bypassing > without having to do detailed analysis. Yes, you > can get by with > less, but not simply by randomly removing some and > hoping for the > best. > > How do I know this is a problem? From personal > experience with > two companies that left out bypass capacitors > despite the > objections of the hardware engineer, because it > still seemed to > work OK in the lab. In both cases, I had to debug > the resulting > problems, which were blamed on software. At first I > believed it > was the software, but eventually I discovered that > adding the bypass > capacitor back into the circuit fixed the problem. > Once I'd finally > proven this to management, it was ECO'd back in. In > one case, a > bunch of inventory had to be reworked (expensive!), > and in the other > case, the inventory was scrapped. But the worst > part was the units > already in the field. RMAs cost a *lot* of money. > > > Seriously, > > they would look at the power supply and use just > > enough with a little extra margin. > > You can't determine how many bypass capacitors you > need > by looking at the power supply. > > > It's my understanding that electrommagnetic > deflected > > vector displays take very, very high-power > deflection > > coils and drivers, and this is where the real > money is > > in these units. I don't know if the Imlac is > > electrostatic or electromagnetic deflection > > (electromagnetic, I suspect). > > That has *nothing* to do with using lots of RC > delays in > the design of the digital logic of a processor. I > won't > go so far as to say that doing so is always wrong, > but > you would need an awful lot of justification for > doing it. > From what I've seen, the Imlac was in fact poorly > designed, > just as others have asserted. They might have > reduced > their manufacturing cost, or they might not have. > But > they decreased the reliability of the machine > considerably. > Usually a tradeoff like that winds up being a false > economy > for the company -- penny wise, pound foolish. > > Eric > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Sep 14 23:24:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Who was looking for old VMS for an 11/750?? Message-ID: Umm looks like a twist-lock connector... *sniff* tastes like a twist-lock connector... *lick* mmm tastes like a twist-lock connector... "Hey mom, um a VAX is FAR more usefull than a dryer! OK? OK!" Nope no three-phase here : ).. Also, the main difference between the "normal" VMS and 11/750 VMS is that generally speaking, it would be difficult to put the CDs in the TU-58... 11/750 VMS distros generally were at at least some portion TU58-based. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Sep 15 00:46:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: It's almost there Message-ID: I've got a PDP-11/23 cpu, M8044 32kW memory card, DLV11-J serial card, and an RQDX1 set up, and starting up into ODT. I've got an ST225 'MFM' interface drive and an RX50 I'd like to hook up, but no cab kit for the RQDX1. Four questions: 1a) Does anyone have a pinout for a cable that'll let me hook up the RX50 and MFM drive to the RQDX1 1b) What DIP switch settings should I use on the RQDX1? 1c) Does someone have a bootstrap I can enter using ODT to boot RT-11 off of an RX50 or the hard drive on the RQDX1? 2) I can potentially get a PC set up with a TU58 emulator, does anyone have a bootstrap to load from a TU58? Thanks! -- Pat From wonko at 4amlunch.net Sun Sep 15 01:53:00 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Who was looking for old VMS for an 11/750?? In-Reply-To: ; from xds_sigma7@hotmail.com on Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 10:24:43PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020915025332.Q3493@marvin.4amlunch.net> On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 10:24:43PM -0600, Will Jennings wrote: > Umm looks like a twist-lock connector... *sniff* tastes like a twist-lock > connector... *lick* mmm tastes like a twist-lock connector... and three-phase doesn't use twist-lock? ;) > "Hey mom, um a > VAX is FAR more usefull than a dryer! OK? OK!" Nope no three-phase here : if only i didn't share my dryer with my neighbors. i certainly don't have any problem going to the laundrymat. ;) although it's really just a matter of me being lazy. i *could* get the /750 running again, all i need to do is run some wire. but that is way low on the priority list. luckily however, the pdp-11/70 is higher on the priority list, and to makes things easier it only needs 110V. ;) (although BOY does that MK11 draw some power) > ).. Also, the main difference between the "normal" VMS and 11/750 VMS is > that generally speaking, it would be difficult to put the CDs in the > TU-58... 11/750 VMS distros generally were at at least some portion > TU58-based. there is nothing says you can't install VMS on a /750 from an INFOSERVER. -brian -- "Hand me my lightsaber. its the purple one that says "BAD MOTHERFUCKER"" From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Sep 15 05:21:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Early Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35366.64.169.63.74.1032085308.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > If it has no badge on the backside that has "Macintosh 128K" or > "Macintosh 512K" then it is indeed an original Mac. Not necessarily. Many (all?) original 128Ks that were upgraded to 512K or 512Ke (512K with 128K Mac Plus ROM, vs. original 64K ROM) still had the original nameplate. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Sep 15 05:29:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <20020915031319.7977.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> References: <34222.64.169.63.74.1032038277.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <20020915031319.7977.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <35373.64.169.63.74.1032085784.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > HP used to make the best stuff. But if they > still made stuff that way, they would be out of > business. No! If HP still made good quality stuff, they would still be a market leader in fields other than inkjet cartridges. I don't begrudge them the inkjet business, but they've let everything else slide, and they've suffered the consequences. Now that their products are no better than anyone else's, yet are still generally more expensive than competing products, customers have no particular reason to favor HP. Thus their market share continues to decline. In the last few years, they decided that rather than stick with their core compentencies, they would try to make money in the cutthroat PC market. They combined their money-losing PC business with that of Compaq. Apparently if you want to lose money on every unit and make it up in volume, you need to have *really* high volume. Of course, the result of the merger is that they will wind up with lower volume, as they continue to lose business to Dell and other clone vendors. I'd love to see them prove me wrong, but I think I'm more likely to see pigs fly. Just a simple matter of applying sufficient thrust. :-) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Sep 15 07:29:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Hp-85B is really an HP-85? In-Reply-To: <3D8334F2.000008.01212@BERETTA> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020915083226.3d7fced6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:09 AM 9/14/02 -0600, you wrote: >I purchased 4 HP-85Bs at auction yesterday. I was browsing information on >HPs at http://www.finseth.com/~fin/hpdata/serial.html, and discovered that >one of my "new" machines was manufactured in February, 1982. That's 16 >months before the 85B was released, as I understand it. Here's the serial >number: 2210A60158. If the first two digits are the number of years since >1960, it was manufactured in 1982. If the next two are the number of weeks >since a certain week in November, it was manufactured sometime in February. > > > >Is that right? Publicly that's correct but in reality HP makes items and dates them X weeks ahead so that they have a near current date when they arrive at the dealer's. I'm not sure X is the same for all divisions of HP and/or all products but 8 weeks seems to be a typical. If the HP-85Bs were released on June 1, 1983, this one was >either a prototype that rolled off the 85A assembly line, or it's an 85-A in >disguise. Do the 85B covers fit the 85A? Yes they'r eexactly the samew size. The difference between them is that the 85B has more memory. FWIW I used to have an 85 (or 85B?) pre-production unit that had a sticker that said "Property of HP Do not sell. Demo Unit" and it had a 9999 data code. If so, there's a hapless soul >with an 85B that thinks it's an 85. And I own both models. > > > >Something else that's interesting: This particular model had an older-style >riveted-on serial number plate, while the other three had newer stickers. It >s also the only one with a 82936A ROM DRAWER. This drawer has the >00085-15002 PLOTTER/PRINTER ROM. I don't think that's significant, but >maybe?? > > > >One other thing: The FCC-ID on three models ends with 85B. The model in >question either hasn't got one, or I can't find it. > > > >If you can shed any light, please do so. I plan to keep one and sell off >the other three. If I'm selling an 85-A, I want to make sure that's what I'm >advertising. In fact, I may just want to keep two of them. > > > >Also, how much is an 85-A worth? I can't find them for sale anywhere. They show up on E-bay frequently. The selling price depends mainly on what all comes with it. The 85s by themselves only bring $50 or so. I have to run now. More later. Joe > > > >Cheers, > > > >John > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Sep 15 09:41:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: It's almost there In-Reply-To: ; from pat@purdueriots.com on Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 07:46:20 CEST References: Message-ID: <20020915163416.C2205@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.09.15 07:46 Patrick Finnegan wrote: > 1a) Does anyone have a pinout for a cable that'll let me hook up the > RX50 and MFM drive to the RQDX1 If the distpanel for the RQDX1 is the same as for the RQDX3: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/tmp/RQDX3-Distpanel.txt > 1c) Does someone have a bootstrap I can enter using ODT to boot RT-11 > off of an RX50 or the hard drive on the RQDX1? http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/tmp/mscp_rt11.txt http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/tmp/tmscp_uodt_pdp11_bootstrap.txt http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/tmp/mscp_uodt.minicom-script http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/tmp/tmscp_uodt.minicom-script The later two are scripts for the *ix terminal emulator programm minicom. (The tmscp scripts are for booting from a MSCP tape like a TK50.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sun Sep 15 09:45:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Hp-85B is really an HP-85? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020915083226.3d7fced6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3D8334F2.000008.01212@BERETTA> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020915104354.01e794f0@pop1.epm.net.co> At 08:32 AM 9/15/02, you wrote: > Yes they'r eexactly the samew size. The difference between them is >that the 85B has more memory. FWIW I used to have an 85 (or 85B?) >pre-production unit that had a sticker that said "Property of HP Do >not sell. Demo Unit" and it had a 9999 data code. There are more differences... the ROM in the 85B seems to include some of the mass storage rom functions, while the 85A can't talk to hpib drives; there is even a TRANSLATE command in the hp85B that will modify a program created in an hp85A without the mass storage ROM so that the program can access disk-based files; otherwise, it will be only able to access tape-based files when run in the 85B. Also, memory architecture might be different; I infer this from the fact that hp explicitly warns not to use the 128K memory module in an 85A, only in an 85B. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Sep 15 10:08:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: want:Apple Pascal Message-ID: <200209150807.01289.rhudson@cnonline.net> Anybody got a spare or know how to clone this. I don't need docs, I have the Mcgraw Hill apple pascal book. I have internet access with a linux box/windows box but I don't know how to cut apple IIc disks from there. Thanks! ron. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Sep 15 10:19:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: It's almost there In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "It's almost there" (Sep 15, 0:46) References: Message-ID: <10209151532.ZM5803@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 15, 0:46, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've got a PDP-11/23 cpu, M8044 32kW memory card, DLV11-J serial card, and > an RQDX1 set up, and starting up into ODT. I've got an ST225 'MFM' > interface drive and an RX50 I'd like to hook up, but no cab kit for the > RQDX1. > > Four questions: > > 1a) Does anyone have a pinout for a cable that'll let me hook up the RX50 > and MFM drive to the RQDX1 I have two documents that might help. Years ago, I made two (different) "distribution boards" so I could use my RQDX1 and RQDX3 on machines that didn't have the proper DEC board. One was no more than a small (2" x 4") perfboard with a 50-way connector for the cable to the RQDX1, a 34-way header for the RX50, and another 34-way, with adjacent 20-way headers, for one or two RDxx drives (actually I used either a Rodime or a Seagate). It also had a terminator pack (7-resistor SIL pack) and a set of jumper pins to take the place of the panel pushbuttons. The interconnections were just hand-soldered, using wire-wrap wire. However, I also made a PCB which does the job more neatly, and which I mounted inside an old TK50Z box (is that a "leprechaun box"?), along with the original PSU, an RX50 (where the TK50 used to be) and a Rodime 10MB drive. It's still in use today (literally today, as I'm using it to copy some RT-11 stuff for someone). I've put the document I wrote (in PostScript format) listing the RQDX distribution board connections and signals, along with some notes about using random floppy drives, on my web site. It's not just a list of signals and pin numbers; it also describes what they actually do. I've also put the layout for the distribution board PCB up there. http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/RQDX/ I once traced out the connections and drew the circuit diagram of a real M9058 distribution board (which is what my PCB emulates) but I can't find the document. Sorry! However, I do remember that it's very simple. > 1b) What DIP switch settings should I use on the RQDX1? Well, that's easy, because it has no switches :-) If you mean the jumpers, they're set as follows: There's a group of jumpers to set the starting LUN (Logical Unit Number) of the RQDX1, at the back edge on the right (top left if you're looking at a board from above, with the contact fingers downwards and the LEDs and connector at the top). The jumper positions are labelled 0 to 7, and represent powers of two, so no jumpers at all sets "0", a jumper on the first position ('0') sets "1", a jumper on the second and third positions sets "6", etc. If this is the first or only MSCP disk controller in the system, set LUN 0 (which means it controls drive units 0-3, ie four LUNs starting at 0) ie remove all the jumpers. Another set of jumpers, near the "Row B" contact fingers, sets the addresses of the IP and SA registers, by setting A2...A12. The A2 jumper position is nearest the "Row A" fingers and the A12 position is near the "Row C" fingers. Jumper IN is a '1', no jumper is a '0'. A0 and A1 are always zero, and the higher bits are controlled by BBS7 so there are no jumpers for those bits. The standard address is 17772150, set by jumpering A3, A5, A6, A10, A12. The interrupt vector is set by software as part of the bootstrap; it's usually 154 for the first MSCP device. Finally, there are four wire links, W1/W2 near the "Row C" fingers and W3/W4 near the centre of the board. Actually, they're usually zero-ohm resistors. W1 and W2 are for grant continuity, they are IN for use in Q/Q or Q22/Q22 (serpentine) backplanes and OUT (removed) for use in Q/CD or Q22/C (straight) backplanes. I don't know what W3 and W4 do, but they're IN on mine. > 1c) Does someone have a bootstrap I can enter using ODT to boot RT-11 off > of an RX50 or the hard drive on the RQDX1? That's harder. The way MSCP works, by setting up message blocks and passing them to the controller, makes it a bit complicated, and I've never seen a stand-alone bootstrap. The easiest way might be to get the boot code off an Emulex controller to disassemble, as at least that wouldn't have all the overhead of dialogs and options for other devices which the DEC boot ROMs have. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From zmerch at 30below.com Sun Sep 15 10:56:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: Oxymorons... (was: It's almost there In-Reply-To: <10209151532.ZM5803@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020915114411.023e6798@mail.30below.com> At 14:32 09/15/2002 +0000, Peter Turnbull wrote: >Actually, they're usually zero-ohm resistors. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'll have to add that one to my list of: "OTP-EPROM", Military Intelligence & Microsoft Works... :-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From glenslick at hotmail.com Sun Sep 15 11:24:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:22 2005 Subject: want:Apple Pascal Message-ID: Try this: ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/utility/adt122.zip ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/utility/programming/apple_pascal/ >From: Ron Hudson >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: want:Apple Pascal >Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 08:07:01 -0700 > >Anybody got a spare or know how to clone this. >I don't need docs, I have the Mcgraw Hill apple pascal >book. > >I have internet access with a linux box/windows box but I don't >know how to cut apple IIc disks from there. > >Thanks! >ron. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From martinm at allwest.net Sun Sep 15 12:09:00 2002 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Oxymorons... (was: It's almost there References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020915114411.023e6798@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3D84BECA.A9A075DC@allwest.net> Roger Merchberger wrote: > > At 14:32 09/15/2002 +0000, Peter Turnbull wrote: > > >Actually, they're usually zero-ohm resistors. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I'll have to add that one to my list of: "OTP-EPROM", Military Intelligence > & Microsoft Works... :-) > I thought the refernece to a "zero ohm resistor" was a joke when reading instructions to modify a Sun mouse. When doing the mod, there really was a "0" smd resistor on the board. I presume a zero ohm resistor is used so that it can be placed with automated smd assembly. Martin From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Sep 15 12:24:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Oxymorons... (was: It's almost there In-Reply-To: <3D84BECA.A9A075DC@allwest.net> Message-ID: Zero ohm resistors in common form factors have been around for years. They're available in 1/4 watt rhough-hole, 1/8 watt through-hole, 1/16 watt through-hole, all SMD sizes from 1206 on down. Usually used to set options on a board at automated assembly time. For instance, a radio may be optioned for different countries simply by inserting (or not) a zero-ohm resistor. It's faster, cheaper, smaller and more reliable than removable jumper plugs. We use them all the time. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Martin Marshall Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 13:10 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Oxymorons... (was: It's almost there Roger Merchberger wrote: > > At 14:32 09/15/2002 +0000, Peter Turnbull wrote: > > >Actually, they're usually zero-ohm resistors. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I'll have to add that one to my list of: "OTP-EPROM", Military Intelligence > & Microsoft Works... :-) > I thought the refernece to a "zero ohm resistor" was a joke when reading instructions to modify a Sun mouse. When doing the mod, there really was a "0" smd resistor on the board. I presume a zero ohm resistor is used so that it can be placed with automated smd assembly. Martin From listor at melin.org Sun Sep 15 12:29:29 2002 From: listor at melin.org (Joacim Melin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: For sale : Original Apple II Euro+ Message-ID: <00d501c25cdd$b6073a50$f401a8c0@vallentuna.melin.org> Yet another box from my collection will have to go. It's an fully working Apple II Euro+, an Apple II made for the european market that was able to display video in the PAL format and also supported european letters. Read more about it here : http://www.apple-history.com/quickgallery.html?where=aIIplus.html As with the Raptor 3 - I will ship anywhere. The computer works great but I have no additional stuff for it like manuals, software or anything. Please email an offer to joacim at melin dot org. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020915/d468f34e/attachment.html From foo at siconic.com Sun Sep 15 13:05:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <20020915031319.7977.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Sep 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote: > I marvel at how well the HP2644A I have is built. But really, did it > have to be built so well that it would be working 27 years later, long > after it was obsolete? The original purchaser paid for a lot more than > they used. HP used to make the best stuff. But if they still made stuff > that way, they would be out of business. Such is the world we live in. The field of computing was much different in the 1970s than it is today. We don't take for granted the fact that next month the chip manufacturers will squeeze another couple hundred megahertz of performance out of the latest whiz bang CPU. Computers were built to last for a long time because they had to. A $1,000 computer investment in the 70s was considerably more money than it is today, and that probably bought you a dumb terminal. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Sep 15 13:05:31 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Early Mac In-Reply-To: <35366.64.169.63.74.1032085308.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > If it has no badge on the backside that has "Macintosh 128K" or > > "Macintosh 512K" then it is indeed an original Mac. > > Not necessarily. Many (all?) original 128Ks that were upgraded to 512K > or 512Ke (512K with 128K Mac Plus ROM, vs. original 64K ROM) still had > the original nameplate. True, I hadn't considered that. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Sep 15 13:25:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Oxymorons... (was: It's almost there In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > Zero ohm resistors in common form factors have been around for years. > They're available in 1/4 watt rhough-hole, 1/8 watt through-hole, 1/16 watt > through-hole, all SMD sizes from 1206 on down. Usually used to set options > on a board at automated assembly time. For instance, a radio may be > optioned for different countries simply by inserting (or not) a zero-ohm > resistor. It's faster, cheaper, smaller and more reliable than removable > jumper plugs. We use them all the time. > > --John Yes, but what tolerance do you use? Peter Wallace From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Sep 15 13:40:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... References: Message-ID: <3D84D330.5040305@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: > The field of computing was much different in the 1970s than it is today. > We don't take for granted the fact that next month the chip manufacturers > will squeeze another couple hundred megahertz of performance out of the > latest whiz bang CPU. Computers were built to last for a long time > because they had to. A $1,000 computer investment in the 70s was > considerably more money than it is today, and that probably bought you a > dumb terminal. The big increase in speed was do to the fact that MAIN memory has increased in speed in the 1970's to the 1990's. Early machines had efficent programs as well. I have 600? Mhz machine so a new 2GHZ machine would be 3x faster? No-way ... still main memory will limit the speed of this machine or the next version of software will have 33% more bloat. Something like Real Hi-Fi after the transistor came out. Sure we can give you 32 watt amps rather than 8 watts in a tube amp.The fine print don't tell you with cheap speakers you have 1/2 the power and with the distortion given by transistors you run at 1/2 the power so it sounds good... umm 8 watts again. Well we can sell you this 64 Watt amp now ... From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Sep 15 13:41:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Oxymorons... (was: It's almost there In-Reply-To: Message-ID: [zero ohm resistor] On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > Yes, but what tolerance do you use? That could depend on how serioulsy the circuit would be adversely affected by having a higher resistance than spec'ed. Apparently it is quite rare that a zero ohm resistor would have LESS resistance than spec. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Sep 15 13:52:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Oxymorons... (was: It's almost there References: Message-ID: <3D84D6DF.CA2BBA4E@compsys.to> >"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > [zero ohm resistor] > On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > Yes, but what tolerance do you use? > That could depend on how serioulsy the circuit would be adversely > affected by having a higher resistance than spec'ed. > Apparently it is quite rare that a zero ohm resistor would have LESS > resistance than spec. Jerome Fine replies: OK, Fred, you had me wondering for a million nanoseconds. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jwillis at arielusa.com Sun Sep 15 14:04:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 power requirements Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6AB@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> Do these things require (as I have heard rumored) 240-volt 3-phase power? Thanks John From hansp at aconit.org Sun Sep 15 14:23:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Pictures of PDP-9 Message-ID: <3D84DE17.7030201@aconit.org> I've put up some pictures of our PDP-9 restoration project : http://www.aconit.org/hbp/PDP9 -- hbp From meltie at myrealbox.com Sun Sep 15 15:20:00 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (melt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 power requirements In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6AB@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6AB@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> Message-ID: <1032121259.3478.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Sun, 2002-09-15 at 20:04, John Willis wrote: > Do these things require (as I have heard rumored) 240-volt 3-phase > power? Nope, my (UK) model is a single-phase model, and will run off a standard UK mains plug. Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From jwillis at arielusa.com Sun Sep 15 16:55:01 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 power requirements Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6AC@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> what voltage is UK mains power, out of curiosity Best John -----Original Message----- From: melt Sent: Sun 9/15/2002 2:20 PM To: ccmp Cc: Subject: Re: VAX 11/750 power requirements On Sun, 2002-09-15 at 20:04, John Willis wrote: > Do these things require (as I have heard rumored) 240-volt 3-phase > power? Nope, my (UK) model is a single-phase model, and will run off a standard UK mains plug. Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3678 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020915/e48c83b9/attachment.bin From wonko at 4amlunch.net Sun Sep 15 16:59:00 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 power requirements In-Reply-To: <1032121259.3478.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu>; from meltie@myrealbox.com on Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 09:20:51PM +0100 References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6AB@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> <1032121259.3478.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20020915175946.A163079@marvin.4amlunch.net> On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 09:20:51PM +0100, melt wrote: > On Sun, 2002-09-15 at 20:04, John Willis wrote: > > Do these things require (as I have heard rumored) 240-volt 3-phase > > power? > Nope, my (UK) model is a single-phase model, and will run off a standard > UK mains plug. the US modem is 220V split-phase. no three phase needed. -brian -- "Hand me my lightsaber. its the purple one that says "BAD MOTHERFUCKER"" From meltie at myrealbox.com Sun Sep 15 18:24:00 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (melt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 power requirements In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6AC@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6AC@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> Message-ID: <1032132288.4089.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Sun, 2002-09-15 at 22:55, John Willis wrote: > what voltage is UK mains power, out of curiosity 240VRMS Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From donm at cts.com Sun Sep 15 18:27:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: TU-58 tape drives and melted capstans (was Re: HP Protocol Analyzers) In-Reply-To: <20020915010128.GC2553@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Sep 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Ethan Dicks, from writings of Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 10:04:52AM -0700: > > Interesting offer, but Allison's suggestion of Tygon > > tubing seems to be working just fine. I bought a > > Some people have also had success with hoses from auto parts stores, > or from their own supplies of spare auto parts. Are there any > benefits to using tygon instead of rubber? Even a rubber grommet of the proper bore diameter can be used by turning/sanding down the flanges to get the needed OD. - don > -- > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > From donm at cts.com Sun Sep 15 18:49:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Oxymorons... (was: It's almost there In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > > > Zero ohm resistors in common form factors have been around for years. > > They're available in 1/4 watt rhough-hole, 1/8 watt through-hole, 1/16 watt > > through-hole, all SMD sizes from 1206 on down. Usually used to set options > > on a board at automated assembly time. For instance, a radio may be > > optioned for different countries simply by inserting (or not) a zero-ohm > > resistor. It's faster, cheaper, smaller and more reliable than removable > > jumper plugs. We use them all the time. > > > > --John > > Yes, but what tolerance do you use? > > Peter Wallace I'd think that zero +/- 100% would be close enough :) - don From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Sep 15 18:56:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Oxymorons... (was: It's almost there In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36252.64.169.63.74.1032134214.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Peter Wallace wrote regarding 0 Ohm resistors: > Yes, but what tolerance do you use? Don Maslin wrote: > I'd think that zero +/- 100% would be close enough :) That would be great if you could get it. The 0 Ohm resistors I've seen do not have anywhere near that good a tolerance. Usually through-hole 0 Ohm resistors have a single black band, and no tolerance band. I did find some once that had a black band and a gold band. Wishful thinking by the manufacturer, I suppose. From blstuart at bellsouth.net Sun Sep 15 19:05:00 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: It's almost there In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 15 Sep 2002 00:46:20 -0500 (EST) . Message-ID: In message , Patrick Finnegan writes: >2) I can potentially get a PC set up with a TU58 emulator, does anyone > have a bootstrap to load from a TU58? Here's one that I whipped up several years ago. As I remember, it worked well enough to boot RT11 from TU58, but it hasn't been too extensively tested and, of course, I don't make any guarantees. Also, I hand-assembled this so it may well be some strange mix of DEC and UNIX assembler notations. It should be relocatable, but my notes suggest I loaded it at 1000. Brian L. Stuart 1000: 012700 176504 mov #176504,r0 1004: 010001 mov r0,r1 1006: 012720 000001 mov #1,(r0)+ 1012: 005010 clr (r0) 1014: 005010 clr (r0) 1016: 105711 1: tstb (r1) 1020: 100376 bpl 1b 1022: 005011 clr (r1) 1024: 012702 176502 mov #176502,r2 1030: 105712 tstb (r2) 1032: 005004 clr r4 1034: 012703 001000 mov #777,r3 1040: 112710 000004 movb #4,(r0) 1044: 105711 1: tstb (r1) 1046: 100376 bpl 1b 1050: 112710 000010 movb #10,(r0) 1054: 105711 1: tstb (r1) 1056: 100376 bpl 1b 1060: 105010 clrb (r0) 1062: 105737 176500 1: tstb @#176500 1066: 100375 bpl 1b 1070: 111224 movb (r2),(r4)+ 1072: 077305 sob r3,1b 1074: 005000 clr r0 1076: 005007 clr pc From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Sep 15 19:14:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Gould / Encore SEL 32s - any interest Message-ID: The DG guy in PDX just got in three Gould/Encore SEL 32s in. If there is any interest I can send you his way. Since he is a scrapper you will have to pay twice gold price. These won't stick around long. They appear to be single full height racks with a Pertec tape and maybe a large (physically) HD. Heavy and would require pickup In Portland, OR or palletizing and shipping from there. Sorry no pictures. I am 100 miles from the systems and cannot go look. Paxton Astoria, OR From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 15 19:47:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 power requirements In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6AB@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> Message-ID: <20020916004806.96107.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Willis wrote: > Do these things require (as I have heard rumored) 240-volt 3-phase > power? Mine have 120V 30A twist-n-lock plugs. The only box in our entire machine room at work, c. 1992, that needed 220V was our TU78. We _had_ a VAX 8530 that did take 3-phase, but we got rid of it as soon as we no longer had a need for a Nautilus-bus machine. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Sep 15 21:32:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 and Ethernet Message-ID: <200209160242.TAA28510@stockholm.ptloma.edu> http://www.floodgap.com/cbm-enet.jpg 'Nuff said. The device is a Lantronix UDS-10 in modem mode, allowing the SX to open TCP connections using Hayes-like commands over the local Ethernet network. Here, it's browsing the apartment network using HyperLink 2.5: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/hl/ The picture the SX-64 is viewing has been slightly blurred to protect the innocent/unwitting. :-) By the way, I see no reason why Apples, Ataris, TIs, etc., can't all be using these things too. The only problem is they're not terribly cheap (mine was a little over $100). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Why did the chicken cross the Moebius strip? To get to the other ... uh ... From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Sep 15 22:44:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Hey! I got a job finally! Message-ID: <200209152043.12687.rhudson@cnonline.net> After a year search I am now working at HALTED. Any of you in the area, stop by and say Hi. Sorry, can't get you any discounts :^) I am usually there Thurs, Fri and SAT This saturday is Halted's 25th aniversary SALE, many-but-not-all things discounted! Come and see what they drag out of the dark corners of the warehouse! (probably very little classic comp stuff, lots of components!) From curt at atari-history.com Mon Sep 16 00:26:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Hey! I got a job finally! References: <200209152043.12687.rhudson@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <003001c25d41$876f2220$7000a8c0@cvendel> Ron, Congrats dude, nice to hear of someone getting Hired instead of fired for a change. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 11:43 PM Subject: Hey! I got a job finally! > > After a year search I am now working at HALTED. > > Any of you in the area, stop by and say Hi. > > Sorry, can't get you any discounts :^) > > I am usually there Thurs, Fri and SAT > > > This saturday is Halted's 25th aniversary SALE, many-but-not-all things > discounted! Come and see what they drag out of the dark corners of the > warehouse! (probably very little classic comp stuff, lots of components!) > > From dave at naffnet.org.uk Mon Sep 16 01:21:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 power requirements References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6AC@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> <1032132288.4089.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <3D85788E.DDBC1D86@naffnet.org.uk> melt wrote: > On Sun, 2002-09-15 at 22:55, John Willis wrote: > > what voltage is UK mains power, out of curiosity > > 240VRMS > > Alex > -- > > Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance > like no-one is watching. Alex is correct, but strictly speaking, due to the EU, UK supply is now 220Vrms with enough allowable error that we are within spec with a 240V supply- so no change to the actual voltage whilst still achieving a pan-european standard... 50Hz is a given, of course. Cheers, Dave. From jbdigriz at ns2.i16.net Mon Sep 16 02:07:01 2002 From: jbdigriz at ns2.i16.net (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: TI-74 and TI-95 Message-ID: <200209121856.g8CIuNq5018289@ns2.i16.net> vance@neurotica.com wrote .. > > Refresh my memory. What are these machines? > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > While cleaning up some old stuff I found my TI-74, TI-95, and > > PC-324 printer. I completely forgot I had these, even though > > I used to use them all the time. I think the most interesting > > accessory is the Pascal module for the TI-74, allowing programs > > to be written in Pascal instead of BASIC. > > -- > > Eric Dittman > > dittman@dittman.net > > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > > Early handheld computers/calcs with a single line display somewhat along the lines of the RS model 100. What TI ultimately put out instead of the much-touted TI-88. (Actually saw one of those a while back on Ebay. Went for about $600 IIRC. The seller was an ex-TI engineer who expressed surprise when I brought up the subject of the TI-99/8, many more of which escaped Engineering and found their way out into the world than said calc.) The 74 has a BASIC interpreter, while the 95 is more an advanced scientific calculator. Both are programmable at the assembly level. The PC-324 printer works with both. Nice machines. You can still by them new/refurbed from an outfit in the Pac. Northwest. Name of which escapes me at the moment.) jbdigriz From nerdware at ctgonline.org Mon Sep 16 02:07:46 2002 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (nerdware@ctgonline.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Reply to: OT - Warren Zevon Message-ID: <200209122207.g8CM7DN06716@garcon.ctgonline.org> I heard this a little while ago, also. You don't know how much this ruined my day... Warren is one of the best. Met him a couple of times, seen him a dozen, was at one of the shows that got recorded for "Learning to Flinch." Damn it. I hate it when we lose the good ones. Paul ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS: I think Warren Zevon has come up here a couple times. I figured I'd let any fans that don't already know, know the bad news. I know my day is ruined now. Zane September 12, 2002 Warren Zevon has inoperable cancer Sep. 12, 2002 "Werewolves of London" rocker Warren Zevon, the singer-songwriter whose satire, cynicism and wit went on display in the 1978 album "Excitable Boy," has been diagnosed with inoperable lung cancer, his publicist said Thursday. Zevon, 55, was told of the terminal diagnosis last month by doctors and he is spending time with his grown children, spokeswoman Diana Baron said. The entertainer lives in Los Angeles. "He has been diagnosed with lung cancer which has advanced to an untreatable stage," she said, adding he's writing and recording as many songs as possible and will be in the recording studio next week. Zevon said in a statement, "I'm OK with it, but it'll be a drag if I don't make it till the next James Bond movie comes out." (AP) -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net Mon Sep 16 02:07:59 2002 From: lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net (linc fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000/240 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Andreas Krennmair wrote: > > > * John Honniball [02-09-12 22:28]: > > > > > > I've recently acquired a DECstation 5000/240, a MIPS-based workstation > > > made in 1992. I've got it to respond to the serial console (by > > > removing the frame buffer card) and now I want to try to net-boot it. > > > > Why net-booting? I'm always booting VAXstation (I know, that's different > > hardware, but from pretty much the same time, and I suppose from the > > same engineers) via an SCSI CD drive. You need one that works with 512-byte > > sectors. Fortunately, I have a drive available made by DEC for > > VAXstations, but I tried it once with another drive we use at work to > > install old Sun Sparc machines and SGI machines. > > The DS5000/240 has no internal SCSI interface or drive mounts. It's > less of a PITA to netboot than to manage external storage, even if you > *do* have that proprietary DEC external cable. > > Doc, who would like a firmware upgrade too. > Huh? it doesn't have a dec proprietary cable.. You're thinking of DS3100/2100'ds.. Standard scsi hanging off the back will work just fine. In fact I use one for my DNS/File/MP3 server.. Works fantastic. As for installing NetBSD, use a scsi cdrom, or the "helper disk" method.. I used the latter myself and it worked flawlessly. -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From w_mcculley at hotmail.com Mon Sep 16 02:08:31 2002 From: w_mcculley at hotmail.com (wallis mcculley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: morrow decision 1, ? Message-ID: Hello: I wrote the following query to a Don Maslin (I think) who referred me to your site. I may well just keep it or sell it to the right party for the right price. I have a Morrow Decision 1 (?) in large rectangle box (not in console), big power supply, noisy 8" fd, many discs, bodacious hd (few megs), liberty rs232 monitor (I have 3-4), wordstar, micronix, asm(?), manuals . I'm 50 miles n SFran. Decision in console, this thing big raw box approx. 3x2x1' only smaller, what is it, who can I contact who is the prime collector etc.?? It has been in covered storage for years and I haven't looked at since. I am writing you to get some measure of its value and being sought after. thanks, wally _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From Qstieee at aol.com Mon Sep 16 02:08:46 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Software & docs for Shiva Fastpath 4 box Message-ID: <71369CFE.313C7610.001A265C@aol.com> I assume nothing at http://www.intel.com/support/si/index.htm is of value to you. I'm not familiar with Fastpath but have LANROVER E From gmphillips at earthlink.net Mon Sep 16 02:08:59 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs References: <001d01c257aa$4a89d900$0100a8c0@sys1> <3.0.6.16.20020909175543.0eb7d35a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001c01c25ac9$419befa0$0100a8c0@sys1> I've got the 1st Intel Data Catalog, it's dated Sept. 1972. As far as I know, it's the only one known, but I'm sure there's others out there. I also have the 1977 Intel data Catalog. I really need a 1974 or 1975 but I might be interested in a 1976 if that's all I can get, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 5:55 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs > 1974 or '75 catalog? I didn't know they printed them that far back. I've seen several 1978 or '79 catalogs but nothing older. > > Joe > > > > At 09:23 AM 9/10/02 +1200, you wrote: > >Have 1976 if it's of any interest. > >Dave Brown > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "John Galt" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 2:40 PM > >Subject: Wanted: Intel Data Catalogs > > > > > >I'm looking for a 1974, or 1975 Intel Data Catalog. Will pay $200 for > >either. > > > >Will pay $100 for a scanned copy on CD. > > > >Also looking for Intel 1301 ROM. Don't care what's programmed on it. Also > >looking for Intel C3102, C3104, C3106, or C3107 Static RAMs. Will pay $50 > >to $200 ea. depending on condition. > > > >email me: gmphillips@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > From Dcsonntag at aol.com Mon Sep 16 02:09:21 2002 From: Dcsonntag at aol.com (Dcsonntag@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: TI ASR 733 data tapes Message-ID: Counted the tapes, there are 24 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020916/f93bb0fa/attachment.html From vance at neurotica.com Mon Sep 16 02:09:40 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote: > There is a similar term used a lot though - "Heartland" that I got so sick > of hearing when I lived in Wichita. I have heard references to "Homeland" as > well and in Hitler's Germany of the 30's and 40's I believe they used > "Motherland" more than "Homeland" Nope... "fatherland". Peace... Sridhar > -> I always felt that the name "Homeland Security" reeks of > -> Nazi Germany. > -> "Homeland" is not a term we Americans use much, and it feels wrong. > -> "Internal Security" sounds too Russian. They just need to > -> retask the IRS. > -> They've already got all the spies, informants, SWAT teams and > -> databases they > -> need to do the job, right? > -> > -> --John > -> > -> -----Original Message----- > -> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > -> Behalf Of Gene Buckle > -> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 12:20 > -> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > -> Subject: Re: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? > -> > -> > -> > > atomic bomb (anybody remember what happened in Texas City?) PLUS the > -> > > flaming magnesium fell for miles outside the blast area and created > -> > > thousands of fires that combine to form a fire storm. > -> (Remember Toyko in > -> > > early 1945? The fire storms killed more people than both of > -> the atomic > -> > > bombs.) > -> > > -> > You guys had better be careful discussing all these terror attack > -> > scenarios in public. Pretty soon we'll have Asscroft > -> breathing down our > -> > necks. > -> > > -> Don't forget Reichsmarschall Rumsfeld. > -> > -> g. > -> > -> > -> > -> > From vance at neurotica.com Mon Sep 16 02:10:00 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Almost OT?: The origin of the smiley emoticon... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > I saw this on The Register's US web site (http://www.theregus.com/) today... > > First ever smiley found, preserved for posterity > > - MS researcher and CMU staff find backup tape > > 13 September 2002 4:33am > > http://www.theregus.com/content/6/26295.html > > Is that the article that claims that no smiley's were ever used before > 1982? > While I can not provide any proof of prior art, I saw them used > occasionally with 360 selectric terminal operations in 1970! I saw them in comments in IBM 360 listings which were at least 20 years old when I saw them in about 1984. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Mon Sep 16 02:10:15 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Univac rescue In-Reply-To: <20020913190006.578.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > If you tried to move my ES/9000 on a ramp, you would probably die a quick > > death. Unless, of course you had a lot of help. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > I watched a couple of "stooges" try to cart away our 3745 when it went > off lease. We *told* the company that we did not have a loading dock > and that they would need to bring a lift-gate truck. They showed up > with a 16' truck with the built-in aluminum ramp (like a U-Haul). > > To their credit, they managed to get it half-way up, but then the > ramp began to torque, probably about 15 degrees each way. It was > almost an undampened oscillation, but at the last second, they > steadied the load and eased it back down. Someone else showed up > the next day with a lift-gate. :-) LOL I'm surprised the ramp didn't snap. Peace... Sridhar From jurjen.kranenborg at philips.com Mon Sep 16 02:10:31 2002 From: jurjen.kranenborg at philips.com (jurjen.kranenborg@philips.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: CP/M-8000 Message-ID: Dear Christian, On 10/15/01 you wrote, concerning CP/M-8000: Hi, I've got a Olivetti M20 Z8001 PC, and it appears that once there was a CP/M-8000 version available for it. Has anyone got such thing? I'd be interested in this, I could swap with some PCOS programs. (Assuming the copyright holder (Olivetti) doesn't mind.) regards, chris In case you still are looking for it, here's the link to the officilial DR distribution of CP/M-8000 tuned to the M20: http://www.cpm.z80.de/source.html On this page you will find the link to CP/M-8000 distributions I have a few questions concerning the z8001 and accompanying software, may I get in contact with you about this (I am planning to build a Z8001 system myself (in the year 2002? Yes, because I bought the parts in 1985 and I rediscovered them just recently) Regards, Jurjen Kranenborg From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Mon Sep 16 02:10:45 2002 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Nifty Find - HP2644A In-Reply-To: <20020913053437.42141.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020914002418.63831.qmail@web20809.mail.yahoo.com> Steve, There are several dealers of used HP1000 and 3000 equipment (Monterey bay Communications) that may be able to help you with a replacement key and other items for a few $ if you're inclined to go that route. Google on used HP computers. Nice find. Used 264x terminals when I was at HP and they are built like tanks. Lee Courtney --- Loboyko Steve wrote: > I picked up on a $10.00 eBay Buy it now an HP2644A > terminal. This terminal uses little tapes (DC-100A's > or HP 98200A's). It's slightly beat up (mostly in > shipping in spite of the seller's best and > professional efforts), but nothing (except see > below) > that I can't repair - I'm pretty sure I can get this > back to nearly original factory condition. It should > be a nice complement to some classic micro's I'm > working with. The HP 2644A is working. It even came > with the hard to replace RS-232 cable,with an edge > connector to the unit, weird. Annoying, considering > that this thing cost several $1000's in the mid > 1970's. It looks like you could put 20 amps of > RS-232 > signal through it, given the diameter of the cable! > > The 2644A's claim to fame is that it used the 8008 > CPU, and has a tiny mini-operating system, pretty > good > for a machine with 16K of address space. There is a > web site in Germany with a pong game that is > actually > that you run on the 8008 in the terminal via a > diagnostic "back door", which I'm looking forward to > trying. I wonder who wrote it. > > This unit I have doesn't have many goodies like > graphics or lower case, but for $10, what do you > want. > It's built like a "mainframe", and later models used > the same everything with different boards plugged > into > the backplane. > > I got a few manuals with it; the 2645A and 2648A > manuals. The 2645 seems to be very similar. > > A few questions: > > 1. The "infamous" HP 98200A tapes are REALLY awful. > I > got a box on eBay, never used, in wrappers, and they > failed immediately. After taking them apart, I think > I > know why. Even sealed after all these years, the > oxide > was actualy coming off the tape and the reels didn't > even have clips to hold the tape on. Whatever held > the > ends of the tape on originally, doesn't. Hard to > beleive that this was an HP product of that era. > I've > got almost 35 year old audio casettes that still > work > and sound great. > > I think DC100A's and even DC2000's will work > according to what I've googled. Any comments? Of > course, I've already tackled and (probably) fixed > the > "gummy" roller problem. Before I used the drives, > even. Naturally, I've given away all of my DC2000 > tapes... > > 2. Has anyone ever seen a CRT develop mold between > the > (bonded to the tube) safety glass and the tube > itself? > The unit itself was probably stored indoors in a > controlled environment because it was otherwise very > clean. I'm pretty sure I can get a replacement, but > it > will cost. Too bad, because the tube is really good > and not burned in whatsoever, which is very > surprising > (the tape heads have zero detectable wear also). > Trust > me, even if it's technically possible, I won't be > trying to separate the safety glass from the tube > itself. I hate replacing CRT's. Unfortunately, I've > gotten good at it. > > 3. The tab key is missing. Not broken off, just > missing. I have a "kinda close" replacement, but if > anyone has a junk HP product of that era with tall, > "Cherry" keytops, I'll take anything. > > > Thanks for reading! > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! News - Today's headlines > http://news.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From NOcmcnabbSPAM at 4mcnabb.net Mon Sep 16 02:11:00 2002 From: NOcmcnabbSPAM at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Problems Booting RSX-11M V4.4 on a PDP-11/24 from an RA80 Disk Drive Message-ID: <002101c25bab$2d2722f0$3200a8c0@winnt> I've finally got what I think is a good sysgen for my PDP-11, but I'm having a hard time getting it to boot from an RA80. Here is the machine config: PDP-11/24 Unibus Map Memory Map Floating Point Unit Extended Instruction Set DZ11 Async board 512 KW (1024 KB) Ram Two RL02 Disk Drives One RA80 Disk Drive with MSCP controller Here is the sequence of commands I am using to transfer the system from the RL02 (where it was sysgened) to the RA80: >MOU DU0:/FOR >ACS DL0:/BLKS=0 >INS $BRU >INS $VMR >INS $PIP >DMO DL0:/DEV >MOU DL0:/FOR >BRU DL0: DU0: (BRU Initializes DU0) >DMO DU0: >DMO DL0:/DEV >MOU DL0:RSXM46 >MOU DU0:RSXM46 >SET /UIC=[1,54] >PIP DU0:RSX11M.SYS/NV/CO/BL:2050=RSX11M.TSK >ASN DU0: SY: >ASN DU0: LB: >VMR @SYSVMR >BOO DU0:RSX11M.SYS XDT> G RSX11M V4.4 BL 46 > TIM XX:XX XX-XXX-XX Note: A 'DEV' command at this point shows all the proper devices and redirects. > SAV /WB /MOU="DU0:RSXM46" The RA80 Ready light flickers for a few seconds, then the channel select light will go off and back on twice. Then the system hangs. If I boot from the RL02 at this point, and then try to boot from the RA80, the system will hang again. Booting from the ODT prompt (173204g) yields the same result. The system hangs wether or not I specify the /MOU option to the 'SAV' command. If I try the boot right after the BRU command, I get the expected "Device does not contain a hardware boot block' message, so I know the MSCP controller is working. I don't know why I can boot the first time with the 'BOO' command, but not subsequently. Anyone out there have any clues? From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 16 03:10:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: morrow decision 1, ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, wallis mcculley wrote: > Hello: I wrote the following query to a Don Maslin (I think) who > referred me to your site. I may well just keep it or sell it to the > right party for the right price. > > I have a Morrow Decision 1 (?) in large rectangle box (not in > console), big power supply, noisy 8" fd, many discs, bodacious hd (few > megs), liberty rs232 monitor (I have 3-4), wordstar, micronix, asm(?), > manuals . I'm 50 miles n SFran. Decision in console, this thing big raw > box approx. 3x2x1' only smaller, what is it, who can I contact who is > the prime collector etc.?? It has been in covered storage for years and > I haven't looked at since. > I am writing you to get some measure of its value and being sought > after. thanks, wally Hi Wally. This would be a good thing to sell on consignment at the Vintage Computer Festival: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/vendor.php Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Sep 16 07:20:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at "Sep 13, 2 02:09:11 pm" Message-ID: <200209161229.FAA09808@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > There is a similar term used a lot though - "Heartland" that I got so sick > > of hearing when I lived in Wichita. I have heard references to "Homeland" > > as well and in Hitler's Germany of the 30's and 40's I believe they used > > "Motherland" more than "Homeland" > Nope... "fatherland". Schultz: "Why do I *always* *lose*?!" Hogan: "It's not you, Schultz, it's the Fatherland!" (from #26 "The Prince from the Phone Company") -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Adore, v.: To venerate expectantly. -- Ambrose Bierce ---------------------- From lists at subatomix.com Mon Sep 16 08:08:07 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: EIA 232 vs. 422, Color Computers (was Re: Serial floppy drive s) In-Reply-To: <200209122302.QAA00740@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200209122302.QAA00740@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <19442574879.20020916080744@subatomix.com> On Thursday, September 12, 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > From: "Jeffrey Sharp" > > > 100 feet at 115200 bps through three unshielded wires, wrapped around a > > three-foot-tall Jacob's ladder apparatus enclosed in plexiglass. No bit > > errors. We gave up and decided to build a device to simulate bit errors. > > What makes you think that wrapped on the outside of a Jacob's ladder has > either the right coupling or the right frequency spectrum to effect a > RS-232 signal? Well said. It probably had more to do with a burning desire to do *something* with the giant Jacob's ladder. But we were still suprised when nothing happened, none of us being hardware guys. Someone else mentioned a device that you could insert into a serial link that generated bit errors with a configurable frequency. That seems like the way to go here, and it can be done with nearly any machine with two compatible serial ports. -- Jeffrey Sharp Reply to jss at subatomix dot com. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Mon Sep 16 08:13:00 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (jbdigriz@dragonsweb.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: TI-74 and TI-95 Message-ID: <200209161314.g8GDE9tC020306@ns2.i16.net> "James B. DiGriz" wrote .. > vance@neurotica.com wrote .. > > > > Refresh my memory. What are these machines? > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > While cleaning up some old stuff I found my TI-74, TI-95, and > > > PC-324 printer. I completely forgot I had these, even though > > > I used to use them all the time. I think the most interesting > > > accessory is the Pascal module for the TI-74, allowing programs > > > to be written in Pascal instead of BASIC. > > Early handheld computers/calcs with a single line display somewhat along > the lines of the RS model 100. > jbdigriz Make that "along the lines of the RS PC-2 or Sharp handhelds" There is a good description of the 74 at http://www.99er.net/ti74art.html, by Charles Good of the Lima TI User Group. It's basically a pocket version of the CC40. It's possible to adapt a CC40 Hexbus cable and peripherals to it, even, according to the article. http://www.hightechsolutions.com/Accesories.htm for TI-74 and 95 stuff. They appear to be out of the computers, but the PC-324, modules, and other accessories are available. jbdigriz From lists at subatomix.com Mon Sep 16 08:17:06 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020904124038.01afc8c0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904150256.01adbc00@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904173738.01ad3cd8@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904175048.01b08ae0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906090505.01b35098@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906125622.01a52570@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020912182009.01ae93b8@ubanproductions.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> Message-ID: <1443120754.20020916081649@subatomix.com> On Friday, September 13, 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > A Windows machine would be the most practical host. I suggest you make it platform-independent (e.g. Java). -- Jeffrey Sharp Reply to jss at subatomix dot com. From fastluck at email.com Mon Sep 16 08:33:00 2002 From: fastluck at email.com (John Reynolds) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Hp-85B is really an HP-85? References: <3.0.2.32.20020915104354.01e794f0@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3D85DC9B.000001.01356@BERETTA> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020916/6b9970d1/attachment.gif From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Sep 16 08:49:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:23 2005 Subject: Hp-85B is really an HP-85? In-Reply-To: <3D85DC9B.000001.01356@BERETTA> References: <3.0.2.32.20020915104354.01e794f0@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020916094704.0131c454@pop1.epm.net.co> At 07:28 AM 9/16/02 -0600, you wrote: >So the cover fits a little tighter because of the increased functionality? :) >Anyway, the real answer to my question is "read the plate." I was told I was >purchasing HP-85Bs. But one of them was an 85, and the cover clearly said that. >I just didn't read it. Or, you can see if it recognizes the TRANSLATE command that was mentioned before. Only the HP85B supports it. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From msell at ontimesupport.com Mon Sep 16 08:49:37 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 power requirements In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6AB@deathstar.ARIELNET. COM> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020916084849.0352d008@127.0.0.1> John, Nope. I'm running mine on a standard 3-conductor cable, 12AWG. It draws between 700 and 900 watts, depending on if I insert a full complement of memory (8MB) and the FPU. - Matt At 01:04 PM 9/15/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Do these things require (as I have heard rumored) 240-volt 3-phase >power? > >Thanks >John Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020916/64d91726/attachment.html From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Mon Sep 16 08:53:08 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) Message-ID: >I have a couple of CS/80 HPIB disk drives and I am curious how they are >controlled and would like to read the CS/80 programming manual if I can >find one. > >The drives I have are a 9133H which is a combo 20MB hard drive and floppy >drive unit which I have used with my HP IPC, and a 2203A which is a >whopping 670MB dual disk unit which I haven't hooked up to anything yet. >Was that the biggest CS/80 HPIB drive HP ever made? Some day I'll try >interfacing one of the drives to the HP 2117F box I have if I can ever >figure out how to get it to power up. Glen, Earlier this year I wrote a primitive driver so that my HP1000's could talk to CS/80 drives. Even with the CS80 docs it took weeks of tinkering to make the damned thing work. The CS80 protocol really isn't that difficult. All you need is a HPIB protocol analyzer (Joe has one) and some patience. I can help you get started with the command sequences. Getting the HP1000 to to send all the correct sequences is a much larger problem. I never finished the project but, I can do some basic disk functions. I can boot from the 1000, I can read an write absolute sectors, and I can run progrmas from the disk. This in itself is a major accomlishment. If you need any help getting started, just let me know. See ya, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Sep 16 08:55:00 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: paging Bruce Lane In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020912211144.50a7693c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020912211144.50a7693c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200209160547510135.4E8F2172@192.168.42.129> Hi, Joe, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 12-Sep-02 at 21:11 Joe wrote: >Bruce, I tried to reply to you but the reply bounced. See below. Can you >give me another address? You bet! I'm sorry you got caught up in RR.com's spammer infestation problems. Alternate address is kc7gr [at] qsl dot-net. Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Mon Sep 16 09:02:07 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) Message-ID: >Thanks to some help from Bob I got past the HP 2117F power supply issue so >now the box is not totally dead. Some day after I figure out a lot more >about how this system works I'll have to try building an HPIB cable to >connect to the 12821A disc interface in the system and see if I can get it >to talk to one of my CS/80 drives. Apparently this box has a CS/80 boot >prom which I have been told is not too common. I have a machine with the CS80 boot ROMs but have been unable to dup them. One of the problems that we've had is finding a burner to dup the ROMs. Bob Shannon had tried a number of times but still can't get his copies to work. So... This weekend I wnet to the Melbourne Hamfest and stumbled across an old programmer that is supposed to burn Harris 7611's. Now If I can just get Bob to send some of those chips back to me, maybe I can make dups. See ya, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From mross666 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 16 09:30:11 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Manuals available Message-ID: Folks, Just got this email, feel free to respond directly - armin_h_schmidt@yahoo.de is the guy with the stuff. Hello Mike, I've got some old manuals (about 1980) of a Sycor (Northern Telecom) System 405. Included are software and hardware description - they are all in mint conditionn. If you're interested or know somebody who is - then please let me know. Don't want to make money with it - will ship worldwide as long as somebody is paying postage for it. armin Hope someone needs these... Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From fastluck at email.com Mon Sep 16 09:43:00 2002 From: fastluck at email.com (John Reynolds) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Hp-85B is really an HP-85? References: <3.0.2.32.20020916094704.0131c454@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3D85ECFE.000012.01356@BERETTA> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020916/77953699/attachment.gif From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 16 09:45:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 power requirements In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020916084849.0352d008@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20020916144549.48956.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Matthew Sell wrote: > > John, > > Nope. > > I'm running mine on a standard 3-conductor cable, 12AWG. > > It draws between 700 and 900 watts, depending on if I insert a full > complement of memory (8MB) and the FPU. > > > - Matt That sounds just about right. If you have the last rev of the memory controller, you can drop a couple of 4MB boards in there, but they were never common. I personally upgraded my original 11/750 from 2MB to 8MB when it was still owned by my employer. The upgrade was to add a backplane wire for the extra address line, stick the new mem controller in, and change a switch on the backplane switch register. I do not know what's involved with upgrading an 8MB 11/750. It is probably similar. Never had an FPU for ours, but it does have a Massbus controller (for our TU78), an Systems Industries SI9900 controller (in another Massbus slot), and at one point, we had an L0010 "2nd Unibus" card (don't recall if it's in there at the moment). It _might_ have another Massbus adapter in that slot since at one point, we did have a pair of RM03s as stand-by system disks in case our SI9900 or its 160MB Fuji SMD drive failed. Nice system. Ours was the office machine for 60+ people, including software developers, sales, office admins, etc. 8MB of RAM, and as long as we rode herd on the users to get out of their apps when they were idle (VMS MAIL and MASS-11, our word-processing app, had about 1MB of resident storage plus whatever was needed for working space for each user), we paged, but we almost never swapped. One way to reduce the draw of the 11/750 itself would be to not use the internal Unibus. Grant all the slots and use an external BA-11. You might draw more overall current that way, but you could put them on seperate branches. For as many users as we had, plus as many disk and tape devices as we needed, we *filled* the internal Unibus, and had a BA-11 at about 50% capacity, but we had RX50, RL02, SDI disks (RA81s typically), 64 terminal lines, line printer, several COMBOARDs for SNA and Bisync, etc. Nice machines if you can stand .6 VUPs and live within the memory it provides. For a Unibus-oriented machine, it's probably my favorite. A low-end VAXBI machine *with* a Unibus is almost a substitute, but not quite. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Sep 16 10:02:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <1443120754.20020916081649@subatomix.com> References: <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904124038.01afc8c0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904150256.01adbc00@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904173738.01ad3cd8@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904175048.01b08ae0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906090505.01b35098@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906125622.01a52570@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020912182009.01ae93b8@ubanproductions.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020916111023.02a1e588@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Jeffrey Sharp may have mentioned these words: >On Friday, September 13, 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > A Windows machine would be the most practical host. > >I suggest you make it platform-independent (e.g. Java). Why not make it a lot *more* platform independent... e.g. Perl. There's a version of Perl 4.0.36 that runs on Atari STs (not too badly, either...) kinda bringing this back ontopic... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Sep 16 10:48:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... References: <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904124038.01afc8c0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904150256.01adbc00@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904173738.01ad3cd8@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904175048.01b08ae0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906090505.01b35098@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906125622.01a52570@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020912182009.01ae93b8@ubanproductions.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020916111023.02a1e588@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3D85FDBB.1070609@tiac.net> Well, the only PC thats allowed anywhere near the vintage computer room (basement) is quite vintage itself, it does not have Java, nor Pearl, or much of anything. Should 'ReImlacs' become available, I agree a portable assembler would be very important, but right now there are something like TWO working Imlac's in the world. The one I need to assemble code for would have to be supported by a specific PC, that already has a large number of other software dependancies on it already (as it also supports some vintage HP hardware). Given that many modern non-PC workstations have workable DOS-in-a-window emulators, a basic 16-bit DOS application would work just fine for now, or a basic windows program would work fine.. So lets keep the focus on getting the actual machines supported, then think about ports for an Atari, etc. Personally, I'd be tempted to write all the supporting software in HP-IPL/OS, one of the LEAST portable platforms in the world! Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Jeffrey Sharp may have mentioned these words: > >> On Friday, September 13, 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: >> >> > A Windows machine would be the most practical host. >> >> I suggest you make it platform-independent (e.g. Java). > > > Why not make it a lot *more* platform independent... e.g. Perl. > > There's a version of Perl 4.0.36 that runs on Atari STs (not too > badly, either...) kinda bringing this back ontopic... ;-) > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > zmerch@30below.com > > What do you do when Life gives you lemons, > and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? > > From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Sep 16 10:57:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <1443120754.20020916081649@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Friday, September 13, 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > A Windows machine would be the most practical host. > > I suggest you make it platform-independent (e.g. Java). Personally, I would say if you don't want to use Java, at least write it so it's posix compliant, maybe so it'll compile just fine on *nix, and using cygwin if necessary on windows. -- Pat From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Sep 16 11:05:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020916111023.02a1e588@mail.30below.com> References: <1443120754.20020916081649@subatomix.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904124038.01afc8c0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904150256.01adbc00@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904173738.01ad3cd8@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904175048.01b08ae0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906090505.01b35098@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906125622.01a52570@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020912182009.01ae93b8@ubanproductions.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020916110445.01a73918@ubanproductions.com> At 11:11 AM 9/16/2002 -0400, Roger Merchberger wrote: >Rumor has it that Jeffrey Sharp may have mentioned these words: >>On Friday, September 13, 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: >> >> > A Windows machine would be the most practical host. >> >>I suggest you make it platform-independent (e.g. Java). > >Why not make it a lot *more* platform independent... e.g. Perl. > >There's a version of Perl 4.0.36 that runs on Atari STs (not too badly, >either...) kinda bringing this back ontopic... ;-) Hmm. Well I would actually guess that while C (in which the assembler is already written) is not quite as portable as Perl (from the it runs without modification standpoint), there are probably more C implementations than there are Perl, for a wider variety of machines. BTW, what is off topic about any of these discussions? --tom >Laterz, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger > >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >zmerch@30below.com > >What do you do when Life gives you lemons, >and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 16 11:49:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020916124835.3bf7b326@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Glen, I can probably turn up one of those too. I had some but gave them and all the other HP 1000 stuff to Bob Shannon and Steve Robertson. In fact, I gave Steve one of the card edge connectors this past weekend. Joe At 11:27 PM 9/13/02 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks for the offer, but I didn't mean a standard HPIB-HPIB cable. The >12821A disc interface has a 50 conductor edge connector instead of a >standard HPIB champ connector. I think the HP part number for the edge >connector to HPIB champ connector cable is 59310-60008. If that was really >the cable you were talking about then maybe I will take you up on your >offer. > >-Glen > > >>From: Joe >>Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: Re: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) >>Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:10:10 >> >>Glen, >> >> Don't bother to build a HP-IB cable. They're common. If you can't find >>one locally I'll drop one in the mail to you. >> >> Joe > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 16 11:50:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Need power plug In-Reply-To: <119.17544e86.2ab48306@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020916125242.3c0fa2e6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> David, If you can post or send a picture I can probably find a power cord. Joe At 08:18 AM 9/14/02 EDT, you wrote: >Would anyone have an extra power plug they could sell me for my generic S-100 >computer? Somehow mine must have gotten given away with other misc. cords. >It's the kind with two sort of oval female prong inputs on the computer end. >Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a picture to anyone who needs to verify. I >haven't had it up and running for a couple of years now, and I would like to. > >I'm really hoping to make it for the first time to the VCF West this year! >Thanks very much, David > >David Greelish >Classic Computing >www.classiccomputing.com >"classiccomputing" on eBay > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 16 11:50:20 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Nifty Find - HP2644A In-Reply-To: <20020914035053.95773.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <042a01c25b73$eb4c0670$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020916124451.3bf76db8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:50 PM 9/13/02 -0700, you wrote: > >I'm a little nervous about screwdrivers or putty >knives and glass under vacuum. I wonder if a HEATED >wire would cut through this. Also, I've found that >acetone goes through just about anything not metal or >glass eventually. > >If you've ever seen the people who replace car >windshields at work (on pre-1990's cars, anyway), they >heat a very thin wire with a blowtorch and use this to >cut the sealant. I was going to suggest using a thin wire as you described. I've done that to remove car windshields from the rubbery putty that they're mounted in. I used .030" stainless steel safety wire. Tie each end to a wooden handle (section of broom handle) and use a back and forth sawing motion to cut through the glue. If you want to heat it, connect each end to some kind of power supply (a car battery with a big variable resistor might work ok). I used a variac to heat a LONG piece of safety wire to cut through a big piece styrofoam to make a 6+ foot wing for a large model airplane once. But be carefull about variacs, remember that thier output is still connected directly to the AC line! It might be hard to find this thin, >strong wire, though. Thin wire, easy. Strong wire, >easy. Thin, strong wire... > > >> End result- cleaned 'em up and got a perfectly >> useable CRT and separate >> 'anti glare' glass. >> I reassembled them with an air gap and 'goo' in the >> screen corners only- > >I might use clear RTV or something similar, if I am >successful. They do make an optical grade of RTC. You might be able to call Dow Corning and get a sample from them. FWIW I spent yesterday afternoon carving the optical sensors that had been potted up n this stuff. Soaking in acetone helps soften it up. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 16 11:59:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020916130211.5857090e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:02 AM 9/16/02 -0400, Steve wrote: >>Thanks to some help from Bob I got past the HP 2117F power supply issue so >>now the box is not totally dead. Some day after I figure out a lot more >>about how this system works I'll have to try building an HPIB cable to >>connect to the 12821A disc interface in the system and see if I can get it >>to talk to one of my CS/80 drives. Apparently this box has a CS/80 boot >>prom which I have been told is not too common. > >I have a machine with the CS80 boot ROMs but have been unable to dup them. >One of the problems that we've had is finding a burner to dup the ROMs. Bob >Shannon had tried a number of times but still can't get his copies to work. > >So... This weekend I wnet to the Melbourne Hamfest and stumbled across an >old programmer that is supposed to burn Harris 7611's. Now If I can just get >Bob to send some of those chips back to me, maybe I can make dups. Steve, Don't forget to send me the dash number of the 7611 and I'll send you a list of possible replacement ICs. I'm still trying to find programming info for them. Joe From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Sep 16 12:37:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help Message-ID: I'm trying to get some assembly code to run on my 11/23 by entering it in at the ODT, and it seems like I'm having trouble with device I/O addresses. All I've got in the machine right now is the CPU card, an M8044 with 32kW at address 0, and the DLV-11J, set up so that port 3 works with ODT as a console port. I've got a DLV11-J set up so that port 3 is the console, and I can interact with ODT just fine. However, when I try entering something that should read or write to the console, nothing happens. Below is a listing of the assembled code I'm trying - I got the I/O address out of a PDP-11 assembly programming book I got from the library. Most likely the book was written with a UNIBUS -11 in mind, not a QBUS one... is that a problem? 1 000000 LC=. 2 001000 .=LC+1000 3 4 177564 XSR=177564 5 177566 XBUF=177566 6 7 001000 012767 000110 177566' MOV #110,XBUF 8 001006 105767 177564' L1: TSTB XSR 9 001012 100375 BPL L1 10 001014 012767 000064 177566' MOV #64,XBUF 11 001022 105767 177564' L2: TSTB XSR 12 001026 100375 BPL L2 13 001030 012767 000130 177566' MOV #130,XBUF 14 001036 105767 177564' L3: TSTB XSR 15 001042 100375 BPL L3 16 001044 012767 000060 177566' MOV #60,XBUF 17 001052 105767 177564' L4: TSTB XSR 18 001056 100375 BPL L4 19 001060 012767 000122 177566' MOV #122,XBUF 20 001066 105767 177564' L5: TSTB XSR 21 001072 100375 BPL L5 22 001074 000005 RESET 23 001076 000000 HALT -- Pat From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 16 12:51:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Friday, September 13, 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > > A Windows machine would be the most practical host. > I suggest you make it platform-independent (e.g. Java). Want PORTABLE? FORTRAN. "FORTRAN is more portable than syphilis" -Dijkstra From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Sep 16 12:59:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: CP/M-8000 Message-ID: <200209161800.LAA03244@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Chris I spent quite a bit of time looking at the stuff from the web site on the CPM-8000. It looks like the CPM.SYS in the cpm8k11 stuff is built specifically for the M20. It was made with the symbol table so I was able to find the various tables. I don't think the fellow that did this implementation really had a solid grasp of a boot process but what they have done should work. There is no reason why what they call CPMLDR.SYS couldn't have been a slightly modified CPM.SYS with a simple loader added ( like more traditional CPM's ). If you look, you'll see that in one place ( I forget where ), they have a compiler flag called TRANSFER. It would seem that they had, in fact, connected a 8 inch drive to a system as the next drive after the hard drive. They used this as a transfer system. The disk, that the .img files were from, was built as though it were for this setup. It was not a bootable disk. There is quite a bit of information on building a boot disk in the various files that contain the tables T0S0, T1S0 and T1S1. These are the main information involved in creating a boot disk. My understanding of T0S0 leads me to think that the one they have is not correct but may have still worked. I believe we can continue to just use the unaltered T0S0 that is on the disk, formatted by the M20. We can just build the bootable image on one of these disk. We don't need to get too carried away. Once we've built a disk that boots, we can add one file at a time to a different disk and transfer them using the second drive. This way, we only have to deal with the directory on the CPM for one file at a time. This simplifies transfers but may take a little extra time. Still, we wouldn't have to deal all that much with disk space allocation. I'm going to fiddle with trying to build up an image but I'll only be able to do this in the evenings this week. Next weekend I'll be off visiting relatives. I converted another RAM board to 128K. It now boots to 384K :) It was one of the two B/W memory boards that I have. It wasn't as simple as I thought. Changing pin 8 from +12V to +5V was just a simple jumper change but Pin 9 had connections inside to an internal power plane. This time, rather than lifting a pin on the chips, I lifted one of the socket pins. I used a little quick setting epoxy to insulate the board pin 9 from the socket pin that I bent out to the side. On these boards, there was at least, a nice jumper hole to connect this additional wire to ( it even looks like they had intended it to be jumper configured but the internal plane connections kept one from doing that ). It took me about 4 hours to do one board. I could have done it faster if I didn't want to save the IC's. Just clipping the IC out and pulling the pins is a lot faster than removing the entire IC, intact. It is a lot safer for the board but I just can destroy working chips. Anyway, do you know of any issues that I should look out for in creating a boot disk from these files? I haven't seen anything that looks like a show stopper. Dwight From lists at subatomix.com Mon Sep 16 13:21:17 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020916110445.01a73918@ubanproductions.com> References: <1443120754.20020916081649@subatomix.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904124038.01afc8c0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904150256.01adbc00@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904173738.01ad3cd8@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904175048.01b08ae0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906090505.01b35098@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906125622.01a52570@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020912182009.01ae93b8@ubanproductions.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20020916110445.01a73918@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <10661343667.20020916132032@subatomix.com> On Monday, September 16, 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > At 11:11 AM 9/16/2002 -0400, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > Rumor has it that Jeffrey Sharp may have mentioned these words: > > > I suggest you make it platform-independent (e.g. Java). > > Hmm. Well I would actually guess that while C (in which the assembler is > already written) is not quite as portable as Perl (from the it runs > without modification standpoint), there are probably more C > implementations than there are Perl, for a wider variety of machines. You know, you're right. There's no reason to use anything other than standard C and its library. It's a fancy assembler that needs anything more than that. > BTW, what is off topic about any of these discussions? Absolutely nothing. -- Jeffrey Sharp Reply to jss roach at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. Debug first. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Sep 16 13:23:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: CP/M-8000 Message-ID: <200209161824.LAA03291@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >Hi Chris > I spent quite a bit of time looking at the stuff from >the web site on the CPM-8000. It looks like the CPM.SYS >in the cpm8k11 stuff is built specifically for the >M20. It was made with the symbol table so I was able >to find the various tables. ---snip--- Hi Sorry about that, this was intended for Chris only but if there is anyone else interested in getting the CP/M-8000 up and running, let me know. It may be easy but one can never tell. I'm not much of a C expert. I wish they'd just done it in assembly. Proper used of macros would have made the job easy enough. My main complaint is that it requires either a PDP-11 with their compiler or a working CP/M-8000. Of course, that is what I'm trying to create. Writing an assembler is relatively trivial while writing a C compiler is a bit more. There are several M*** assemblers that one could easily adapt to the 8000 out there as well ( I do tend to write my own though ). The stuff from the web site looks like one may be able to build a booting disk. I'll be working on that, over the next few days. Dwight From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Sep 16 13:30:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020916111023.02a1e588@mail.30below.com> from Roger Merchberger at "Sep 16, 2 11:11:21 am" Message-ID: <200209161839.LAA10896@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > A Windows machine would be the most practical host. > > I suggest you make it platform-independent (e.g. Java). > Why not make it a lot *more* platform independent... e.g. Perl. > There's a version of Perl 4.0.36 that runs on Atari STs (not too badly, > either...) kinda bringing this back ontopic... ;-) Totally. Perl is a great way to write platform independent code. I'm converting the 6502 xa cross-assembler into Perl, and I'll try to make it Perl4 syntax so that just about any system with some kind of Perl can run it. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Xerox never comes up with anything original. ------------------------------- From spc at conman.org Mon Sep 16 14:23:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Sep 16, 2002 10:57:10 AM Message-ID: <200209161923.PAA30477@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Patrick Finnegan once stated: > > On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > On Friday, September 13, 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > > > A Windows machine would be the most practical host. > > > > I suggest you make it platform-independent (e.g. Java). > > Personally, I would say if you don't want to use Java, at least write it > so it's posix compliant, maybe so it'll compile just fine on *nix, and > using cygwin if necessary on windows. It's possible to write an assembler using ANSI-C with the Standard C library. I have an Amiga assembler (68000) written in ANSI-C and I've had no problems compiling it for use under the Amiga itself, MS-DOS or numerous versions of Unix. -spc (Portable code is *good* 8-) From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 16 14:47:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: osborne executive disks Message-ID: <20020916194949.NSG8286.imf09bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot ---------- > From: Patrick Finnegan > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: osborne executive disks > Date: Saturday, August 10, 2002 10:07 PM > > Does anyone have some (preferally images of) Osborne Executive CP/M disks? > Also, what format does it use, and is it possible to use an Osborne 1 boot > disk to boot an Exec? > > Thanks for the help > > -- Pat > From n4fs at monmouth.com Mon Sep 16 15:52:01 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... References: Message-ID: <018a01c25dc2$588bf100$d2775243@n4fs> Well, I grew up with Fortran. My first introduction to a real computer was in 1964. At the time I lived on Long Island, NY, and the HS I was attending was close to Brookhaven National Laboratory. I had several ham friends working there at the time as well. Anyway, between my junior and senior years at HS BNL offered a summer course for a few select individuals to learn about computers. I, and about 8 or so of my classmates, decided to take the class. It was great. We had to program in machine language and write a program to calculate the value of PI using a power series. What a great experience. I believe we used an IBM 7094, but it was a long time ago. I believe the 360 became popular toward the later part of the 60's. At college everything was in Fortran, and I became pretty comfortable with it. Used it even after I received my BSEE undergraduate degree. Used Fortran a lot at work in the early '70s. However, for the past 25 or more years, I have essentially used nothing but GW basic ( or equivalent) to solve equations and redundant algorithms. Even for simple calculations. I have used just plain C a few times, but I always go back to GW Basic. It works for me, and I understand it. I guess I am as much of a dinasour as some of these machines. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:51 PM Subject: Re: Imlac assembler almost ready... > On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > On Friday, September 13, 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > > A Windows machine would be the most practical host. > > I suggest you make it platform-independent (e.g. Java). > > Want PORTABLE? > FORTRAN. > > "FORTRAN is more portable than syphilis" -Dijkstra > > From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Sep 16 17:11:01 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Oxymorons... (was: It's almost there References: Message-ID: <00aa01c25dce$1e83de80$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Zero Tolerance ! Sipke de Wal ----------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter C. Wallace" To: Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 8:25 PM Subject: RE: Oxymorons... (was: It's almost there > On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > > > Zero ohm resistors in common form factors have been around for years. > > They're available in 1/4 watt rhough-hole, 1/8 watt through-hole, 1/16 watt > > through-hole, all SMD sizes from 1206 on down. Usually used to set options > > on a board at automated assembly time. For instance, a radio may be > > optioned for different countries simply by inserting (or not) a zero-ohm > > resistor. It's faster, cheaper, smaller and more reliable than removable > > jumper plugs. We use them all the time. > > > > --John > > Yes, but what tolerance do you use? > > Peter Wallace > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Sep 16 17:52:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: FS Amiga A1000 and A1010 drive in original boxes Message-ID: <3D865FEF.A8005908@ccp.com> Some time ago I saw someone on the list interested in the above . . . . well I found these at my gold mine in Topeka and had to bring them home . . . !!! I've yet to try them out, but if they are working, I'm willing to part with them for a few bucks, for all those Amigaphile wannabes out there. I have nine Amigas already and it is getting hard to navigate around the house. Reply off-list and we'll go from there. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Sep 16 17:52:27 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 and Ethernet References: <200209160242.TAA28510@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3D865FFA.3AA87DFD@ccp.com> Wow looks impressive . . . . all goes to prove how versitile the Model T of home computers is. Wish there was a 128/80 column version . I wouldn't mind having some way of using my 128 for emails etc. Gary Hildebrand ST. Joseph, MO From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Sep 16 18:33:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 and Ethernet In-Reply-To: <3D865FFA.3AA87DFD@ccp.com> from Gary Hildebrand at "Sep 16, 2 05:49:30 pm" Message-ID: <200209162343.QAA08544@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Wish there was a 128/80 column version . I wouldn't mind > having some way of using my 128 for emails etc. Well, with something like DesTerm and the UDS-10 set to 9600 bps, you could use the 128 in 80-column mode as a Telnet-capable dummy terminal right now with no extra hardware. Hadn't considered a 128 version of HyperLink. Will look into it though :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Angels we have heard on High/Tell us to go out and Buy. -- Tom Lehrer ------ From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Sep 16 18:48:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help References: Message-ID: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I'm trying to get some assembly code to run on my 11/23 by entering it in > at the ODT, and it seems like I'm having trouble with device I/O > addresses. > > Below is a listing of the assembled code I'm trying - I got the I/O > address out of a PDP-11 assembly programming book I got from the library. > Most likely the book was written with a UNIBUS -11 in mind, not a QBUS > one... is that a problem? > > 1 000000 LC=. > 2 001000 .=LC+1000 > 3 > 4 177564 XSR=177564 > 5 177566 XBUF=177566 > 6 > 7 001000 012767 000110 177566' MOV #110,XBUF > 8 001006 105767 177564' L1: TSTB XSR > 9 001012 100375 BPL L1 > 10 001014 012767 000064 177566' MOV #64,XBUF > 11 001022 105767 177564' L2: TSTB XSR > 12 001026 100375 BPL L2 > 13 001030 012767 000130 177566' MOV #130,XBUF > 14 001036 105767 177564' L3: TSTB XSR > 15 001042 100375 BPL L3 > 16 001044 012767 000060 177566' MOV #60,XBUF > 17 001052 105767 177564' L4: TSTB XSR > 18 001056 100375 BPL L4 > 19 001060 012767 000122 177566' MOV #122,XBUF > 20 001066 105767 177564' L5: TSTB XSR > 21 001072 100375 BPL L5 > 22 001074 000005 RESET > 23 001076 000000 HALT Jerome Fine replies: I see the string 177564' for XSR and 177566' for XBUF, but the listing does not have the actual value. Depending on the translation, that could be the problem. NORMALLY, in order to avoid problems, I use the code: 001000 112737 000110 177566 MovB #110, @#XBUF which forces the output to 177566 no matter what address is used for the instruction. Note that I also output ONLY a byte. Please let us know if this helps. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Sep 16 19:21:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help In-Reply-To: "Jerome H. Fine" "Re: MACRO-11 help" (Sep 16, 19:47) References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> Message-ID: <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 16, 19:47, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > I'm trying to get some assembly code to run on my 11/23 by entering it in > > at the ODT, and it seems like I'm having trouble with device I/O > > addresses. > > > > Below is a listing of the assembled code I'm trying - I got the I/O > > address out of a PDP-11 assembly programming book I got from the library. > > Most likely the book was written with a UNIBUS -11 in mind, not a QBUS > > one... is that a problem? No, the console address is the same on all -11s. It's not the address, but the addressing mode you've used. > > 7 001000 012767 000110 177566' MOV #110,XBUF > Jerome Fine replies: > > I see the string 177564' for XSR and 177566' for XBUF, but the > listing does not have the actual value. Depending on the translation, that > could be the problem. > > NORMALLY, in order to avoid problems, I use the code: > 001000 112737 000110 177566 MovB #110, @#XBUF > which forces the output to 177566 no matter what address is used for the > instruction. Note that I also output ONLY a byte. Pat is using PC-relative addressing -- probably inadvertantly. The 67 in that opcode 012767 means mode 6, PC-relative, so the address actually used is the address of the instruction word, plus 4 (for the increment of the PC), plus the value given. It's like an indexed address, but using the PC as the index register, and it'll be 1010 bytes off. As Jerome points out, the correct way is to specify an absolute address, address mode 3, by typing @#XBUF instead of just XBUF. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 19:39:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help In-Reply-To: <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>; from pete@dunnington.u-net.com on Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 12:24:02AM +0000 References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020916174019.B2524@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 12:24:02AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Pat is using PC-relative addressing -- probably inadvertantly. The 67 in > that opcode 012767 means mode 6, PC-relative, so the address actually used Is that why the apostrophes show up after the data? I had noticed them and I know what they mean (relocatable data) but I thought it might be the lack of correct pseudo-ops. Now I see there are no apostrophes after the declarations at the beginning of the file, only after the later references. I'm not sure I would have defined "relocatable" that way. (Even though the program never sets . it isn't marked as relocatable, and there aren't any external modules that can be relocated.) But it's still a useful definition if it catches errors. -- Derek From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Mon Sep 16 19:51:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <10661343667.20020916132032@subatomix.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020916110445.01a73918@ubanproductions.com> <1443120754.20020916081649@subatomix.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904124038.01afc8c0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904150256.01adbc00@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904173738.01ad3cd8@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904175048.01b08ae0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906090505.01b35098@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906125622.01a52570@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020912182009.01ae93b8@ubanproductions.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20020916110445.01a73918@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020917104847.0262a558@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 01:20 PM 16/09/2002 -0500, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >On Monday, September 16, 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > > > > Hmm. Well I would actually guess that while C (in which the assembler is > > already written) is not quite as portable as Perl (from the it runs > > without modification standpoint), there are probably more C > > implementations than there are Perl, for a wider variety of machines. > >You know, you're right. There's no reason to use anything other than >standard C and its library. It's a fancy assembler that needs anything more >than that. The main issue is that whilst there are lots of C implementations (which allows for portability) the fact that lots of people write very non-portable C is bad. The real killer (from personal experience) are those programmers who think sizeof(int) == sizeof(*int). This breaks lots of "portable" code when moving away from a typical 32bit machine (especially to alpha). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From root at parse.com Mon Sep 16 20:11:01 2002 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: PDP11/73 (fwd) Message-ID: <200209161825.OAA28125@parse.com> Folks, there are 2 PDP-11/73 (LSI 11/73's) as described below in Oregon; anyone interested? (I believe it's Eugene/OR) I believe the cost is $free$ or very nominal. Please reply by Friday of this week, as I promised the guy I'd get back to him in a week. Preference given to people in the area of Oregon to minimize grief for the guy. If you're interested, reply to me and I'll put you on a #1, #2 order. Tell me what pieces you're interested in; first come first served. If no one is interested, the machines' cards will be pulled and shipped to Canada :-) Cheers, -RK > After more than a decade looking at a stack of PDP-11 hardware in > my office, I just summoned the courage to put it on a cart to take > down to the junk heap. Since I am by nature a procrastinator, the > cart still sits in a corner awaiting its fate. So, if you're interested, I > have two LSI 11/73's, fully loaded with 4 (count 'em) MB of ram, > three floppy drives, several hard disks (I can't remember the type > RL02 maybe). > I do still > have 6 of those big 10 mB removable platters. I also have a shelf full of 11/73 > manuals (RT-11). -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Sep 16 21:16:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3D86905E.F2E9A600@compsys.to> >Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Sep 16, 19:47, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > I'm trying to get some assembly code to run on my 11/23 by entering it in > > > > at the ODT, and it seems like I'm having trouble with device I/O > > > addresses. > > > Below is a listing of the assembled code I'm trying - I got the I/O > > > address out of a PDP-11 assembly programming book I got from the library. > > > > Most likely the book was written with a UNIBUS -11 in mind, not a QBUS > > > one... is that a problem? > No, the console address is the same on all -11s. It's not the address, but > the addressing mode you've used. Jerome Fine replies: I agree! I should have answered this as well. > > > 7 001000 012767 000110 177566' MOV #110,XBUF > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I see the string 177564' for XSR and 177566' for XBUF, but the > > listing does not have the actual value. Depending on the translation, that > > > could be the problem. By translation, I meant what MACRO-11 places in the OBJ file as opposed to what Patrick used when he entered 177566' by hand using ODT - notice that the ' character makes 177566' VERY different from just 177566 by itself - which is what happens when @#XBUF is used instead of XBUF by itself. > > NORMALLY, in order to avoid problems, I use the code: > > 001000 112737 000110 177566 MovB #110, @#XBUF > > which forces the output to 177566 no matter what address is used for the > > instruction. Note that I also output ONLY a byte. > Pat is using PC-relative addressing -- probably inadvertantly. The 67 in > that opcode 012767 means mode 6, PC-relative, so the address actually used > is the address of the instruction word, plus 4 (for the increment of the > PC), plus the value given. It's like an indexed address, but using the PC > as the index register, and it'll be 1010 bytes off. As Jerome points out, > the correct way is to specify an absolute address, address mode 3, by > typing @#XBUF instead of just XBUF. I understand your answer. Under normal situations (when MACRO-11 source is translated and the actual code is placed into an OBJ file which is then LINKed), both ways are acceptable. BUT, Patrick was setting up the program via ODT (see line four). If Patrick did not realize what the ' character in the string 177566' meant, perhaps he just put 177566 instead so that the three word instruction became: 001000 Mov #110,XBUF 012767 000110 177566 which, of course, is NOT what Patrick intended. However 001000 MovB #110,@#XBUF 112737 000110 177566 is correct and does the job. So it is not that the first method is incorrect, but for some it might be confusing. My personal opinion is that the MACRO-11 program should make the situation plain, but unfortunately I suspect that MACRO-11 will never be modified by the present owners. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dittman at dittman.net Mon Sep 16 21:16:55 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Pro380 Message-ID: <200209170213.g8H2DSR17268@narnia.int.dittman.net> I'd like to sell my Pro380. It's pretty standard, and I've got a mono and color monitor, documentation, and the CP/M card (but no software for the CP/M card). I'm not sure which version of the P/OS software I have on floppy, but the latest is downloadable. Due to the size of all this, I'd rather someone pick up. This is located in Plano, just north of Dallas, Texas. I'm open to offers of cash or trades. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Mon Sep 16 21:55:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Pro380 Message-ID: <200209170251.g8H2pxb17358@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I'd like to sell my Pro380. It's pretty standard, and I've got > a mono and color monitor, documentation, and the CP/M card (but > no software for the CP/M card). I'm not sure which version of > the P/OS software I have on floppy, but the latest is downloadable. > Due to the size of all this, I'd rather someone pick up. This > is located in Plano, just north of Dallas, Texas. > > I'm open to offers of cash or trades. I forgot to mention that this Pro380 is the model relabelled as a VAX Console, and includes the board and adapter cable for operation as a VAX console (but no cable to connect from the adapter cable to the VAX). There's also another Pro380/VAX Console box with a bad motherboard included. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 16 22:10:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: New Toy! SWTPC 6800 Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020916231322.4f377066@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found a new toy at the hamfest this past weekend. A SWTPC 6800 computer and an AC-30 Cassette Interface. Can anyone asnswer some questions about these? This one has MP-A CPU card, a BOAZ D64kb memory card, a Percom LFD-400B Mini-Disk Controller, a MP-S (serial interface?) card and a MP-L (parallel interface?) card. The MP-L card has a small board hanging off of it with a Datel D/A converter IC on it. Does anyone have any suggestions about whewre to start with this? (After I check the power supply, etc) Does anyone have the terminal connections for this thing? Also the pin out for the Percom Disk controller and info about what drives it supports? and what disks format and wheather they're hard or soft sectored? Joe From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Sep 16 22:39:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: New acquisition Message-ID: I've just picked up a nearly-free NCR model 2119 (class 3400-MSTD). It appears to be almost exactly the same (probably somewhat newer version) as the Unisys U5000 I once had. Of course, there's no information available on the web, and it didn't come with any documentation. However, I do still have the old Unisys manuals for the moment so I can figure out what is what (Will: email me if you still want those, I've not heard back from you in a while). I've got to get the thing cleaned off outside, and then moved upstairs... that will be not-so-fun. It's about 30"x30"x8" deep (guestimate dimensions) and weighs in excess of 100LBS. It has a pair of MFM hard drives (full height 5.25") a streaming tape drive, and a 5.25" floppy drive mounted in it. Also has 8 RS-232 DA-15 serial ports, a parallel (?) printer port, and some sort of other, possibly serial, DB-25 port. I'm hoping that it still has an OS on it, I might be able to figure out how to get around and root password it has... Anyone have more info on the system? I'm gonna get some picture up as soon as I can drag it up here. -- Pat From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Sep 16 22:44:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: This weekend's yard sale finds (TRS-80 programs) In-Reply-To: <018a01c25dc2$588bf100$d2775243@n4fs> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020916222616.01b1f008@ubanproductions.com> This past weekend, I picked up the following three TRS-80 games: Games Pack Three (which includes: Meteor Mission 2 and Cosmic Fighter) on 2 cassettes in original packaging with instruction sheet. For TRS-80 model I - Model III. 1983 Invasion Orion on 1 5.25" floppy in original packaging with instruction sheets and book. For both TRS-80 and Apple. 1979 Key Commander on 1 cassette in original packaging with instruction book. For TRS-80 model 1/III. 1981 As I don't have a TRS-80, if anyone is interesting in these, I will be happy to send them to you for what I have in them $6 ($2 each) plus shipping. --tom From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Sep 16 23:45:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: SE/30 odd behavior In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020916222616.01b1f008@ubanproductions.com> References: <018a01c25dc2$588bf100$d2775243@n4fs> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020917004339.0076d2e4@pop1.epm.net.co> I have had to postpone further testing of my appletalk/ethertalk bridge setup because my SE30 has developed some problems. The symptoms: The machine thinks that there is a floppy disk in the superdrive constantly; it is always trying to read the (empty) drive, then the "This disk cannot be read; Initialize? Eject?" dialog box shows up, I click on "eject" and it starts trying to read the nonexistent floppy again. Thinking that some switch or optical sensor had gone awry, I replaced the drive with another superdrive. Same behavior. Both drives work fine when installed in a second machine. Once, when I was rebooting, I noticed that even before loading the HD driver the machine looks at the floppy first, then gives up and proceeds to boot from the HD. So, what that tells me is that this is no software issue. By the way, this behavior started suddenly after a few hours of operation on Sunday and has continued ever since. So, what kind of failure (in the SE30 mainboard, I guess) could possibly be causing this? Is there a "media changed" line that could be picking up noise? I must say that drives have never been my area of expertise; I just clean some of them ocasionally. Regards, carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From red at bears.org Tue Sep 17 00:00:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: SE/30 odd behavior In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020917004339.0076d2e4@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote: > The machine thinks that there is a floppy disk in the superdrive > constantly; it is always trying to read the (empty) drive, > then the "This disk cannot be read; Initialize? Eject?" dialog > box shows up, I click on "eject" and it starts trying to > read the nonexistent floppy again. Something fried the disk controller. I did this to one of my SE/30s once by being cavalier about not shutting the machine off before connecting and disconnecting an external disk drive. I suppose it goes without saying that the floppy controller is not a standard part. ok r. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Sep 17 02:08:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: Fwd: 11/750 Available [sawyer@cbcast.com] In-Reply-To: <3D867B6F.351945D2@cbcast.com>; from sawyer@cbcast.com on Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 02:46:40 CEST References: <3D867B6F.351945D2@cbcast.com> Message-ID: <20020917090124.A13958@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. Seen this morning on port-vax@netbsd.org: ----- On 2002.09.17 02:46 The Sawyers wrote: Hey Everyone, 11/750 available in the Chicago Area, far west suburbs. Full Set of spares, front panel down to the power supplies, Print Set, Emulex MASSBUS <-> SMD 2 Fujitsu Eagles ~430 MB each (SMD) (with boot prom) 2 CDC Sabre ~ 1BG each (SMD) (with boot prom) TU81 (Unibus interface) Unibus Ethernet Unibus SCSI RS232 Multiplexers Many TU58 Diagnostic Tapes Installation Manuals, Hardware Manuals .. and more. The whole machine currently will run on a 120V/20A circuit. (CPU, TU81, 1 Eagle, and both Sabres) PLEASE SAVE ME FROM THE DUMPSTER Please reply to sawyer@cbcast.com.. Thanks ! -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Sep 17 02:10:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help In-Reply-To: "Jerome H. Fine" "Re: MACRO-11 help" (Sep 16, 22:15) References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3D86905E.F2E9A600@compsys.to> Message-ID: <10209170813.ZM8088@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 16, 22:15, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > I understand your answer. Under normal situations (when MACRO-11 > source is translated and the actual code is placed into an OBJ file which > is then LINKed), both ways are acceptable. BUT, Patrick was setting up > the program via ODT (see line four). If Patrick did not realize what the ' > character in the string 177566' meant, perhaps he just put 177566 instead > so that the three word instruction became: > 001000 Mov #110,XBUF 012767 000110 177566 > which, of course, is NOT what Patrick intended. However > 001000 MovB #110,@#XBUF 112737 000110 177566 > is correct and does the job. > > So it is not that the first method is incorrect, but for some it might be > confusing. Hmm. I'd argue that it *is* incorrect, or at the very least, bad practice. Relative addresses are meant for situations where the target is a label, indicating something which must move if the code does, like the target of a JSR, or a block of data attached to the code; if you mean to indicate something like a memory-mapped register, which has an absolute and invariant address, you should use absolute addressing. Given that Pat said he was going to enter the code using ODT, I imagine he expected the MACRO output to be the correct numbers to enter. But he used the wrong addressing mode to do that :-) > My personal opinion is that the MACRO-11 program should make the > situation plain, but unfortunately I suspect that MACRO-11 will never > be modified by the present owners. I suspect you're right :-) Besides, the output is meant for the linker, not ODT, and I'm not sure how you could make it really plain that the numerical value in the output is not what the linker will turn it into, without a lot of (usually) unneccessary clutter. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Sep 17 02:55:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:24 2005 Subject: New acquisition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > dimensions) and weighs in excess of 100LBS. It has a pair of MFM hard > drives (full height 5.25") a streaming tape drive, and a 5.25" floppy > drive mounted in it. Also has 8 RS-232 DA-15 serial ports, a parallel (?) > printer port, and some sort of other, possibly serial, DB-25 port. It has a 68010 CPU, 4MB of RAM (As far as I can tell), and a multibus interface that has the floppy/hard drive controller, RS-232 line controller (with a dedicated 68010), a tape controller, and a controller for a second bus that has an I/O modules of some sort stuck in it. There's three more slots, so it's possible that additional Multibus cards could be placed in it. Right now (or after I get some sleep), I'm trying to determine the pinout on the console ports so that I can connect something to the machine and watch the console messages. I love (*cough* *cough*) the non-standard DA15F and DE9F RS-232 ports on this thing. The ST-506 interface drives are Hitachi DK511-5's, 41MB each. A bit smaller than the 140MB drives I had with my Unisys U5000. Pictures will come tomorrow, and be available at http://purdueriots.com/classiccmp/ncr_multibus/ -- Pat From dpeschel at eskimo.com Tue Sep 17 06:25:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help In-Reply-To: <10209170813.ZM8088@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>; from pete@dunnington.u-net.com on Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 07:13:10AM +0000 References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3D86905E.F2E9A600@compsys.to> <10209170813.ZM8088@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020917042600.A10898@eskimo.eskimo.com> Pete and Jerome, On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 07:13:10AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Sep 16, 22:15, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > My personal opinion is that the MACRO-11 program should make the > > situation plain, but unfortunately I suspect that MACRO-11 will never > > be modified by the present owners. > > I suspect you're right :-) Besides, the output is meant for the linker, > not ODT, and I'm not sure how you could make it really plain that the > numerical value in the output is not what the linker will turn it into, > without a lot of (usually) unneccessary clutter. You may want to know that Patrick is not using real MACRO-11, but a cross- assembler under Linux. So it may be wrong but at least it can be changed easily. Pete, I replied to your other post in this thread. I'm just trying to understand what "the right thing to do" is here. -- Derek From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Tue Sep 17 07:12:11 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: HP CS/80 Instruction Set Programmers Manual (5955-3442) Message-ID: > >Steve, > > Don't forget to send me the dash number of the 7611 and I'll send you a >list of possible replacement ICs. I'm still trying to find programming info >for them. > > Joe They are 7611-5 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Sep 17 07:29:00 2002 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Weekly finds Message-ID: Went to the U of M property office for my bi-weekly Classic Computing collecting endeavour. Picked up a few wierd video and SCSI cables, and an Intel ProShare video conferencing system (Cool camera!) Also an HP 900/something terminal and Centris 650 for parts (Had a cool NI ADC board, too) They had a CDC 9-disc array, looks to be eighties vintage, in a beautiful blue steel-and-aluminum rack. Also had the matching disk pack drive, standard 19" width and REALLY deep. They had some wierd Kodak computer, looked like a Sun pedestal and might have been an OEMed Sun 3 or 4. An HP 16-Track reel-to-reel data recorder for $50, a steal, as it seemed to work fine except for a few burned-out bulbs on the light-up buttons. They still have the big RS/6000 disc arrays and tape backup units, if anyone has a few thou to blow and a semi to pick them up with. Good luck hunting! _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Sep 17 07:41:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Anyone attend the MIT flea market last weekend? References: Message-ID: <3D872354.4080406@tiac.net> Despite threatening skies, the rain held off long enough for the MIT flea market. I didn't notice too much vintage gear, other than a small HP embedded controller with attached X/Y display (which I did not bring home). From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Sep 17 07:55:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: SE/30 odd behavior In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.2.32.20020917004339.0076d2e4@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020917085327.01490c50@pop1.epm.net.co> At 01:00 AM 9/17/02 -0400, you wrote: >On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote: >> The machine thinks that there is a floppy disk in the superdrive >> constantly; it is always trying to read the (empty) drive, >> then the "This disk cannot be read; Initialize? Eject?" dialog >> box shows up, I click on "eject" and it starts trying to >> read the nonexistent floppy again. >Something fried the disk controller. I did this to one of my SE/30s once >by being cavalier about not shutting the machine off before connecting and >disconnecting an external disk drive. Ouch, I really hope that this is not the case; SE30's are rare here in Colombia. I know that I haven't plugged an external floppy to this machine in eons. So if it is fried, that came out of the blue. I did another experiment: I unplugged the floppy ribbon cable and turned the computer on. No more "...initialize or eject" dialogs. I've been looking at the SE30 schematics (http://www.archaic-apples.com/index.php?category=Macintosh&subcategory=Sche matics), especially page 2 of the SCSI-SWIM diagrams, where the floppy disk controller is depicted. I see that the RDDATA line in the header is tied to the RDDATA _and_ SENSE pins in the controller chip. I don't see any signal name other than "SENSE" that might indicate if there is media in the drive. I also see that all of the lines go through an "RCNET" pack before heading out to the external floppy disk connector. I wonder if the problem might be in this device... I'd like to wait for input from you guys before I turn on the soldering iron. >I suppose it goes without saying that the floppy controller is not a >standard part. Not socketed, either :-( . carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Sep 17 08:22:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Available: IBM 3833 Modem Message-ID: I recently acquired this through my network of friends who know I collect "old computer stuff". It's a 2400bps 4-wire leased line modem. Seems to have been manufactured in 1984. It has a nice case and power supply, that I'll use for other projects if no one wants it or can make a case for its preservation. I also have the "Maintenance Information and Parts Catalog" (First Edition) and a customer troubleshooting guide. I seem to recall that there are a couple of modem collectors on the list. Email if interested. Bill From jim at jkearney.com Tue Sep 17 08:24:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Anyone attend the MIT flea market last weekend? References: <3D872354.4080406@tiac.net> Message-ID: <009201c25e4d$8eed3c00$1001090a@xpace.net> It was pretty thin on the ground there for both sellers and buyers, wasn't it? I saw one of the old HP protocol analyzers with (I think) dual tape drives that were discussed here recently, but that's about it for vintage. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 8:43 AM Subject: Anyone attend the MIT flea market last weekend? > > Despite threatening skies, the rain held off long enough for the MIT > flea market. I didn't notice too much vintage gear, other than a small > HP embedded controller with attached X/Y display (which I did not bring > home). > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Sep 17 08:38:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Anyone attend the MIT flea market last weekend? References: <3D872354.4080406@tiac.net> <009201c25e4d$8eed3c00$1001090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <3D8730D9.1090706@tiac.net> Well, the September Flea is generally one of the largest, as all the freshman have just arrived for the term. But the turn-out was rather light in my opinion, due to the weather reports. I arrived rather late, so I don't know what vintage items I may have missed. Jim Kearney wrote: >It was pretty thin on the ground there for both sellers and buyers, wasn't >it? I saw one of the old HP protocol analyzers with (I think) dual tape >drives that were discussed here recently, but that's about it for vintage. > >Jim > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Shannon" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 8:43 AM >Subject: Anyone attend the MIT flea market last weekend? > > >>Despite threatening skies, the rain held off long enough for the MIT >>flea market. I didn't notice too much vintage gear, other than a small >>HP embedded controller with attached X/Y display (which I did not bring >>home). >> >> >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020917/4e1eb2df/attachment.html From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Sep 17 08:54:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3D86905E.F2E9A600@compsys.to> <10209170813.ZM8088@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3D87340E.3D3C5F18@compsys.to> >Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Sep 16, 22:15, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > I understand your answer. Under normal situations (when MACRO-11 > > source is translated and the actual code is placed into an OBJ file which > > is then LINKed), both ways are acceptable. BUT, Patrick was setting up > > the program via ODT (see line four). If Patrick did not realize what the ' > > > character in the string 177566' meant, perhaps he just put 177566 instead > > so that the three word instruction became: > > 001000 Mov #110,XBUF 012767 000110 177566 > > which, of course, is NOT what Patrick intended. However > > 001000 MovB #110,@#XBUF 112737 000110 177566 > > is correct and does the job. > > So it is not that the first method is incorrect, but for some it might be > > confusing. > Hmm. I'd argue that it *is* incorrect, or at the very least, bad practice. Jerome Fine replies: YES!!! Bad practice, in my opinion, is code which can easily lead to mistakes being made. PLUS, I regard code as an artistic result as well. Using MovB #<'H>,@#XBUF is, again in my opinion, a preferred method of writing the instruction since it also explains what is being done with as little comment as possible. > Relative addresses are meant for situations where the target is a label, > indicating something which must move if the code does, like the target of a > JSR, or a block of data attached to the code; if you mean to indicate > something like a memory-mapped register, which has an absolute and > invariant address, you should use absolute addressing. PLUS, if the instruction is JSR,R0 LOCATION, then PIC (Position Independent Code) results as well. I also agree that absolute addressing is BEST (@#XBUF) when a memory-mapped register which has an invariant absolute address is being referenced. > Given that Pat said he was going to enter the code using ODT, I imagine he > expected the MACRO output to be the correct numbers to enter. But he used > the wrong addressing mode to do that :-) Only insofar as the listed output was concerned. So again, bad practice. > > My personal opinion is that the MACRO-11 program should make the > > situation plain, but unfortunately I suspect that MACRO-11 will never > > be modified by the present owners. > I suspect you're right :-) Besides, the output is meant for the linker, > not ODT, and I'm not sure how you could make it really plain that the > numerical value in the output is not what the linker will turn it into, > without a lot of (usually) unneccessary clutter. Since I have modified MACRO-11 in V5.04G of RT-11 to use dates with 4 digit years up to 2099, I don't think it is impossible to make the modification for the ' character. My first preference would be to at least identify which PSect is being referenced - maybe with a capital letter - which would allow up to 26. Then, it would be helpful to have the actual value being sent to the OBJ file. Remember that if the code and the location are in the SAME PSect, MACRO-11 uses the actual value sent to the OBJ file and NO ' character is placed in the listing. But then the location within the PSect is not explicitly disclosed. Either way, valuable information is missing. As one of the bugs to be added to the list in: http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ in the file rt11bugs.txt, what would you suggest should be the format to be used for the listing in MACRO-11 to allow the additional information to be displayed - perhaps as an option? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mythtech at mac.com Tue Sep 17 09:03:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Weekly finds Message-ID: >They had some >wierd Kodak computer, looked like a Sun pedestal and might have been an >OEMed Sun 3 or 4. It might be a Kodak Firey (sp?). It was their print RIP for their high end printing system. I'm not sure what a Sun pedestal looks like, but the Firey that my Uncle's store had looked like a fat boxy PC mini tower. It connected via Ethernet IIRC to their Mac, and then connected to a Kodak printer/color copier unit (might have been an Agfa or Canon printer/copier, not sure). I could see one of these coming out of a school's graphic arts department. I'm not sure how much these are used any more now that many of the workgroup color laser printers give as good or better quality than the early color copier/firey sytems, and at a much lower cost. Or, it might be a newer Kodak photo processor that you find in those one hour photo places, although I don't know why a school would have one of those and be ditching it (I was under the impression they weren't owned by stores, but rather leased as part of the kiosk and had to be returned to Kodak when they were no longer wanted) -chris From fastluck at email.com Tue Sep 17 09:19:00 2002 From: fastluck at email.com (John Reynolds) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: This weekend's yard sale finds (TRS-80 programs) References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020916222616.01b1f008@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3D8738D0.000001.01236@BERETTA> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020917/883891d1/attachment.gif From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Sep 17 09:24:01 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Ping: Brian Hechinger In-Reply-To: <20020914130736.H3493@marvin.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020917092135.02835c90@127.0.0.1> Brian, What's your email address? Please reply to msell@pdq.net. I have to work out some arrangements with you regarding big machines that draw incredible amounts of power. The other address I have for you is bouncing with DNS probs. - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020917/585d4fde/attachment.html From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Sep 17 09:27:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: This weekend's yard sale finds (TRS-80 programs) In-Reply-To: <3D8738D0.000001.01236@BERETTA> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020916222616.01b1f008@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020917092934.03ed2fd8@ubanproductions.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Re This weekend's yard sale fi.gif Type: image/gif Size: 494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020917/a4c46954/ReThisweekendsyardsalefi.gif From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Sep 17 09:58:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020916110445.01a73918@ubanproductions.com> <1443120754.20020916081649@subatomix.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904124038.01afc8c0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904150256.01adbc00@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904173738.01ad3cd8@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904175048.01b08ae0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906090505.01b35098@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906125622.01a52570@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020912182009.01ae93b8@ubanproductions.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20020916110445.01a73918@ubanproductions.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020917104847.0262a558@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <3D874239.6090206@jetnet.ab.ca> Huw Davies wrote: > The main issue is that whilst there are lots of C implementations (which > allows for > portability) the fact that lots of people write very non-portable C is > bad. The > real killer (from personal experience) are those programmers who think > sizeof(int) == sizeof(*int). This breaks lots of "portable" code when > moving > away from a typical 32bit machine (especially to alpha). Or 16 bit code to a 32 bit machine. BTW FORTRAN was fairly portiable in its day. Not easy to program in for text based operations like cross assemblers but many cpu's in the 1970's has cross-compilers and cross-assemblers written for them in FORTRAN. It is the fact that computers DON'T have a front panel that really makes OLD FORTRAN a pain to port for SENSE switch opertations. From dbwood at kc.rr.com Tue Sep 17 10:14:00 2002 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: New Toy! SWTPC 6800 References: <3.0.6.16.20020916231322.4f377066@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <14e301c25e5c$a10114c0$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> I have docs for SWTPC computers, including schematics (somewhere)... I even have a bunch of miniFlex disks and software. Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:13 PM Subject: New Toy! SWTPC 6800 > I found a new toy at the hamfest this past weekend. A SWTPC 6800 computer and an AC-30 Cassette Interface. Can anyone asnswer some questions about these? This one has MP-A CPU card, a BOAZ D64kb memory card, a Percom LFD-400B Mini-Disk Controller, a MP-S (serial interface?) card and a MP-L (parallel interface?) card. The MP-L card has a small board hanging off of it with a Datel D/A converter IC on it. Does anyone have any suggestions about whewre to start with this? (After I check the power supply, etc) Does anyone have the terminal connections for this thing? Also the pin out for the Percom Disk controller and info about what drives it supports? and what disks format and wheather they're hard or soft sectored? > > Joe > > From jim at jkearney.com Tue Sep 17 10:18:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Anyone attend the MIT flea market last weekend? In-Reply-To: <3D8730D9.1090706@tiac.net> References: <3D872354.4080406@tiac.net> <009201c25e4d$8eed3c00$1001090a@xpace.net> <3D8730D9.1090706@tiac.net> Message-ID: >From: Bob Shannon > Well, the September Flea is generally one of the largest, as all the > freshman have just arrived for the > term. But the turn-out was rather light in my opinion, due to the > weather reports. I think the first two had the best turnout, but I missed a couple in the middle. > I arrived rather late, so I don't know what vintage items I may have > missed. I was there at 9 and didn't see anything worth mentioning. It seems like a lot of the more interesting sellers start out the summer with a few vintagy items amid a mountain of PC/Sun/Apple and, as the summer goes on, sell them and are left with mostly PC stuff. Also a lot of the smaller guys seem to drop out over the course of the summer. From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Sep 17 10:30:00 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Attn: Joe Rigdon In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020916124451.3bf76db8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20020914035053.95773.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> <042a01c25b73$eb4c0670$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020917082803.0219b840@postoffice.pacbell.net> Sorry for the spam if you are reading this and you aren't Joe. Joe, we have some ebay business that I've been mailing you about daily and I haven't heard from you. I see you active here. Please contact me. I hate to chide, but standard ebay courtesy is to contact the buyer within 48 hours. It has been 5 or 6 days now. Thanks. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From mythtech at mac.com Tue Sep 17 10:31:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Printronix P300 Free for pickup (broken) Message-ID: I have a Printronix P300 printer here in New Jersey that anyone that wants to come pick it up, can have it free. The printer does NOT work to the best of my knowledge. Many years ago we had the 3 phase power coming into the building short across the building power, and it toasted the power supplies to most of the equipment here. This printer was one of the items that died. We had someone in to look at it, and IIRC, they said the transformer was shot and would need to be replaced. They wanted $400 for the job, we didn't want to pay it, so we swapped the printer for a Citizen's dot matrix. I kept the Printronix with the intent of one day fixing it myself, but years later, we no longer have the system it went with (a Zebra and later PCs running PICK OS), so I no longer care about fixing it. I have the printer, a paper basket, and the "Applications Manual" (looks like a normal user manual). I thought I had some extra ribbons for it, but I don't see them (if I find them, then I will include them). The printer is mounted on a rolling stand (I thought that was the only way they came, but the manual pictures it without the stand). It uses wide carriage tractor feed paper. The printer is rated as a 300 LPM (that's Lines Per Minute, so it is WAY faster than your standard 300 Characters Per Minute dot matrix printer). The connector on the back is a Centronics looking connector, and the manual says it is a Parallel printer, but I could have sworn it was connected to a port on the Digi-Board, which would have made it a serial printer. I'm probably remembering wrong as to how it was connected, and it probably is a parallel interface, but I can't say for 100% sure. (I know its replacement was a parallel printer) This thing is large, and heavy, so shipping is out of the question. If anyone wants it, they can come pick it up. I can hold on to it for a while, so it doesn't have to be an ASAP pickup (heck, I've been storing it now for about 8 years, what's another few months or so). I can post a picture if any one is interested. -chris From red at bears.org Tue Sep 17 11:00:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: SE/30 odd behavior In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020917085327.01490c50@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote: > I did another experiment: I unplugged the floppy ribbon cable and > turned the computer on. No more "...initialize or eject" dialogs. Oh! Well, then in that case, you might be in luck. My problem only went away when I had _both_ the internal _and_ an external floppy drive connected. If I had one, the other, or neither, I would get the continuous dialogs. You may very well just have a bum floppy drive. If the defect is not immediately traceable to the disk presence switch, I would spring the $5 for a replacement drive. Be glad it's failed now, instead of five years ago. My first SE/30 ate floppy drives like candy. Refurbed drives cost $80, then. ok r. From fastluck at email.com Tue Sep 17 11:20:00 2002 From: fastluck at email.com (John Reynolds) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Televideo 912C and General DataComm Gen Net Terminal Server Message-ID: <3D875528.000003.01236@BERETTA> I have a Televideo 912C and a General DataComm Gen Net Terminal Server. I want to make these two machines talk to each other. I think it would be really cool to be able to display a Trek game or something. But I have a couple of problems. First of all, I'm mostly a PC guy. I don't know anything about these machines. Secondly, I don't even think the ports on the back of the Gen Net are RS-232C. If they are, there's a protocol problem or something, because what gets echoed back isn't what I type. (I type several characters before one is echoed, and the echoed character is usually an odd-looking non-character.) I don't know the password on the server, and I don't know how to operate its control keyboard. Here's something else weird--you have to actually remove the front cover to turn it on and off! Here are some pictures of these machines http://mywebpages.comcast net/fastluck1/Televideo.htm. Check out the terminal--it looks really cool. Can anyone give me information on operating these machines, or point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance, John From fastluck at email.com Tue Sep 17 11:31:00 2002 From: fastluck at email.com (John Reynolds) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Televideo 912C and General DataComm Gen Net Terminal Server References: <3D875528.000003.01236@BERETTA> Message-ID: <3D8757D3.000009.01236@BERETTA> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020917/10bfdebf/attachment.gif From P.Gebhardt at gmx.de Tue Sep 17 11:32:09 2002 From: P.Gebhardt at gmx.de (P.Gebhardt@gmx.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Emulex QD32 Message-ID: <8268.1032280356@www48.gmx.net> Hi all, I'm ready to attach the controller to the backplane of my PDP 11/23 but before, it would be interesting to set the jumpers correctly. On the net, I just found jumper descriptions of the QD33, but the jumpers are different. Is there anybody who can tell me how to set the jumpers ? Moreover, the descriptions on the net are a bit confusing. Several sites say that the QD32 is an E-SMD controller, while other sites talk of a SMD-Controller ? So which interface does this controller support ? And the last thing: 3 big FSD-500 (CDC) drives (9") are waiting to be connected. I hope that the QD32 supports E-SMD as I read that these drives are E-SMD drives... Same case as to the controller... I can't find any descriptions or manuals on the net in order to set the jumpers correctly. Seagate bought CDC at the beginning of the '90 but they didn't answer me. Thanks alot for any help ! Pierre -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Tue Sep 17 11:48:00 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Televideo 912C and General DataComm Gen Net Terminal Server References: <3D875528.000003.01236@BERETTA> Message-ID: <3D875CCC.5FA5098D@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> John Reynolds wrote: > > I have a Televideo 912C and a General DataComm Gen Net Terminal > Server. I want to make these two machines talk to each other. > > Can anyone give me information on operating these machines, or point > me in the right direction? If you give Google the name of the terminal and tell it you're feeling lucky, you will be. TeleVideo Operator's Reference Handbook TVI-912B and TVI-920B TVI-912C and TVI-920C http://vt100.net/televideo/912b-om/ (PDF only, at the moment) Sorry, I know nothing about the terminal server. Have you tried changing the baud rate on the terminal? - Paul From emu at ecubics.com Tue Sep 17 12:13:01 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Emulex QD32 References: <8268.1032280356@www48.gmx.net> Message-ID: <3D876429.E6027138@ecubics.com> P.Gebhardt@gmx.de wrote: > > Hi all, > > Moreover, the descriptions on the net are a bit confusing. > Several sites say that the QD32 is an E-SMD controller, while other sites > talk of a SMD-Controller ? supports SMD & SMD-E, up to 20 MHz. Certified are: CDC: 9457 LMD, 9710-80, 9715-340, 9715-515, 9720, 9771 XMD CDS 315, Fujitsu: 2298, 2321, 2322, M2333, m2351a, m2361a NEC 2352 > I hope that the QD32 supports E-SMD as I read that these drives are E-SMD > drives... > Same case as to the controller... I can't find any descriptions or manuals > on the net in order to set the jumpers correctly. I thought that the qd32 manual is on the net somewhere ... > And the last thing: 3 big FSD-500 (CDC) drives (9") are waiting > to be connected. Do you have the manuals for them ? You probably have to setup the QD32-NVRAM with the right values ... cheers From jwillis at arielusa.com Tue Sep 17 12:30:01 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: 11/750 Available [sawyer@cbcast.com] Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6B1@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> Oh if only I lived near Chicago... -----Original Message----- From: Jochen Kunz Sent: Tue 9/17/2002 1:01 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Fwd: 11/750 Available [sawyer@cbcast.com] Hi. Seen this morning on port-vax@netbsd.org: ----- On 2002.09.17 02:46 The Sawyers wrote: Hey Everyone, 11/750 available in the Chicago Area, far west suburbs. Full Set of spares, front panel down to the power supplies, Print Set, Emulex MASSBUS <-> SMD 2 Fujitsu Eagles ~430 MB each (SMD) (with boot prom) 2 CDC Sabre ~ 1BG each (SMD) (with boot prom) TU81 (Unibus interface) Unibus Ethernet Unibus SCSI RS232 Multiplexers Many TU58 Diagnostic Tapes Installation Manuals, Hardware Manuals .. and more. The whole machine currently will run on a 120V/20A circuit. (CPU, TU81, 1 Eagle, and both Sabres) PLEASE SAVE ME FROM THE DUMPSTER Please reply to sawyer@cbcast.com.. Thanks ! -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020917/d117271e/attachment.gif From fastluck at email.com Tue Sep 17 13:19:00 2002 From: fastluck at email.com (John Reynolds) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Televideo 912C and General DataComm Gen Net Terminal Server References: <3D875CCC.5FA5098D@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: <3D87711B.000013.01236@BERETTA> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020917/0dd94e07/attachment.gif From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Sep 17 14:06:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Weekly finds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020917120538.05130140@mail.zipcon.net> At 10:04 AM 9/17/02 -0400, you wrote: > >They had some > >wierd Kodak computer, looked like a Sun pedestal and might have been an > >OEMed Sun 3 or 4. > >It might be a Kodak Firey (sp?). It was their print RIP for their high >end printing system. I'm not sure what a Sun pedestal looks like, but the >Firey that my Uncle's store had looked like a fat boxy PC mini tower. it also may be a kodak photocd system..... last place I worked had an old Kodak PhotoCD burner and it was a sun with a few extra bits and bobs... From louiss at gate.net Tue Sep 17 14:26:01 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: New Toy! SWTPC 6800 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020916231322.4f377066@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Visit www.swtpc.com. If you still manage to have a question after going through that entire site, then it must be a real good question! Louis On Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:13:22, Joe wrote: # I found a new toy at the hamfest this past weekend. A SWTPC 6800 computer and an AC-30 Cassette Interface. Can anyone asnswer some questions about these? This one has MP-A CPU card, a BOAZ D64kb memory card, a Percom LFD-400B Mini-Disk Controller, a MP-S (serial interface?) card and a MP-L (parallel interface?) card. The MP-L card has a small board hanging off of it with a Datel D/A converter IC on it. Does anyone have any suggestions about whewre to start with this? (After I check the power supply, etc) Does anyone have the terminal connections for this thing? Also the pin out for the Percom Disk controller and info about what drives it supports? and what disks format and wheather they're hard or soft sectored? # # Joe # # From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Sep 17 14:39:00 2002 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Weekly finds References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020917120538.05130140@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: After looking at my sun box at home I don't think it's the same. The Kodak box is a lot deeper, almost like a uVax II pedestal. It's probably a RIP for something, 'cause property had a TON of photo finishing machines a few weeks ago. Did Kodak own Firey? I always thought they were their own company. I knew this design shop in the mid-90's that had a sweet Canon color laser printer with a big 386-based Firey (The 386 was the host with a few thousand $$ worth of Firey DSP cards inside) They later replaced it with a RISC dedicated system the size of a small dictionary. Makes my Quadex Q500 typesetting mini look like a dinosaur. Wait a minute... it is! :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Reed" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 3:06 PM Subject: Re: Weekly finds > At 10:04 AM 9/17/02 -0400, you wrote: > > >They had some > > >wierd Kodak computer, looked like a Sun pedestal and might have been an > > >OEMed Sun 3 or 4. > > > >It might be a Kodak Firey (sp?). It was their print RIP for their high > >end printing system. I'm not sure what a Sun pedestal looks like, but the > >Firey that my Uncle's store had looked like a fat boxy PC mini tower. > > it also may be a kodak photocd system..... last place I worked had an old > Kodak PhotoCD burner and it was a sun with a few extra bits and bobs... > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 17 14:42:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: SE/30 odd behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020917194303.89981.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote: > > > The machine thinks that there is a floppy disk in the superdrive > > constantly... > > Something fried the disk controller. I did this to one of my SE/30s once > by being cavalier about not shutting the machine off before connecting > and disconnecting an external disk drive. > > I suppose it goes without saying that the floppy controller is not a > standard part. Well... it's standard to Apple... there's a chip on there marked "IWM" - Integrated Woz Machine. That's the "floppy controller", though I'm not certain that 100% of the floppy functions are performed by that chip (thinking of the Amiga where it takes two or three chips to run the floppies - Paula, an 8520, and Gary (if present)). There might or might not be some control-line stuff and/or analog stuff external to the IWM. AFAIK, it's the IWM that controls the data clocks and handles the number of sectors-per-track changes, among other functions. Best bet is a replacement motherboard. Second best bet is to pull the IWM from your SE/30 board and from another board and install a socket before installing the replacement. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 17 14:52:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020917104847.0262a558@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <20020917195317.91447.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Huw Davies wrote: > The real killer (from personal experience) are those programmers who > think sizeof(int) == sizeof(*int). This breaks lots of "portable" code > when moving away from a typical 32bit machine (especially to alpha). Remember the attitude, "all the world's a VAX"? There was even more code 15 years ago with a variety of assumptions about pointer size and format, and byte order. The best way (besides good design) to cure that is to write and test your C code on two architectures that have little common ground. It's one of the reasons cited for porting Unix to the Interdata 8/32. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From mythtech at mac.com Tue Sep 17 15:00:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Weekly finds Message-ID: >Did Kodak own Firey? I always thought they were their own company. Good question. I have only seen 3 Firey boxes ever (and personally used none). All 3 had big Kodak labels on them, so I just kind of assumed it was a Kodak product. That could of course be a bad assumption. Based on the big labels concept, most of my WinTel PCs must be made by apple, because they all have big apple stickers on them (as well as my old car) All 3 of the ones I looked at were fat square mini-tower size boxes, two were beige, one was black, and I have NO idea what was in them (my "looking" at them was pretty much just that, they were on the floor near a color printer, I pointed my eyes at it, and looked) -chris From fastluck at email.com Tue Sep 17 15:07:00 2002 From: fastluck at email.com (John Reynolds) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:25 2005 Subject: Televideo 912C and General DataComm Gen Net Terminal Server References: <3D875CCC.5FA5098D@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: <3D878A83.000016.01236@BERETTA> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020917/44aec7d2/attachment.gif From red at bears.org Tue Sep 17 15:47:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: SE/30 odd behavior In-Reply-To: <20020917194303.89981.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Well... it's standard to Apple... there's a chip on there marked > "IWM" - Integrated Woz Machine. That's the "floppy controller", though Yes, I'm aware of that. I suppose I should've said what I meant, which was "not generally available as a replacement part." You couldn't order a SWIM out of a catalog, like you could with, say, a SID. > Best bet is a replacement motherboard. Second best bet is to pull the > IWM from your SE/30 board and from another board and install a socket > before installing the replacement. For a roached SWIM, I agree, and for mine the replacement motherboard was the cure. Further description of Carlos' problem leads me to suspect a different failure. ok r. From seeker2k02 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 17 15:56:16 2002 From: seeker2k02 at yahoo.com (laurie mintz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: International Modems? Message-ID: <20020917205644.71832.qmail@web13203.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone know when the first international-capable modems were sold? I know that there were Hayes commands pretty early on that allowed modems to be configured for either US or Europe, but I suspect this may have been more related to signal standards than to phone line requirements (such as impedance). I'm looking for a modem that could be switched between US, Europe, and/or Japan phone lines. Can anyone help? Thanks. Laurie --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020917/f8846e3a/attachment.html From dbwood at kc.rr.com Tue Sep 17 16:12:00 2002 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: International Modems? References: <20020917205644.71832.qmail@web13203.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <182001c25e8e$8dd7eae0$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Laurie, I used to write software for the Chinese National Railway back in 1989-1990. We used Multi-Mate modems (external). Most of the differences in phone systems involves the use of "guard tones" as we found out the hard way; I had to fly to China over Thanksgiving '89 to rewrite some of the modem software because the V.P. of Engineering for my company failed to get the needed specs for their (the Chinese) phone system!!! Hope that helps. Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: laurie mintz To: cctech@classiccmp.org Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 3:56 PM Subject: International Modems? Does anyone know when the first international-capable modems were sold? I know that there were Hayes commands pretty early on that allowed modems to be configured for either US or Europe, but I suspect this may have been more related to signal standards than to phone line requirements (such as impedance). I'm looking for a modem that could be switched between US, Europe, and/or Japan phone lines. Can anyone help? Thanks. Laurie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020917/bdb7e575/attachment.html From redodd at comcast.net Tue Sep 17 16:19:00 2002 From: redodd at comcast.net (Ralph E. Dodd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: 19. Re: brand new AT&T 458 daisy wheel printer Message-ID: <004e01c25e8f$ff0ea7c0$35d02544@redmlca1yovgxi> > Today I acquired a BRAND NEW AT&T model 458 serial daisy wheel printer. > It's in the original wrapping. It has a printout saying Printer AT&T 458 > Number 7829177, then it has a vertical alignment test. If someone wants > this before I open the original packing, let me know. >I've reformatted your text. Where is the printer and how heavy is it? >-- Derek The printer has been spoken for. Ralph From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 17 16:26:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: Emulex QD32 Message-ID: Pierre, I have a QD32 manual.. if those drives are PA5 variety, then I have manuals too.. please provide the model numbers. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From jwillis at arielusa.com Tue Sep 17 16:58:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: VAXstation 2000 parts Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6B2@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> Needed: ethernet controller board for VAXstation 2000/MicroVAX 2000 also an RD54 hard disk in working order also a TK50Z tape drive From wonko at 4amlunch.net Tue Sep 17 17:16:00 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: what drive does an RV02K WORK disk go in? Message-ID: <20020917181634.R163079@marvin.4amlunch.net> and does anyone know where i could get one? i need to get data off of an RV02K pak, but lack the drive. thanks!! -brian -- Don't get too bent out of shape, for half the world, Calculus is incomprehensible until they learn the epsilon-delta proof. After learning the epsilon-delta proof, it's incomprehensible for most of the other half. -- George Adkins -- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Sep 17 17:19:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <20020917195317.91447.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Sep 17, 2 12:53:17 pm" Message-ID: <200209172228.PAA09978@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > The best way (besides good design) to cure that is to write and test your > C code on two architectures that have little common ground. It's one > of the reasons cited for porting Unix to the Interdata 8/32. What's the architecture of an Interdata 8/32? I've never heard of it before. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I see nothing! Nothing! -- Sgt. Schultz, "Hogan's Heroes" ------------------ From wm65805 at alltel.net Tue Sep 17 17:44:00 2002 From: wm65805 at alltel.net (bill malcolm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: CP/M TEX wanted Message-ID: <3D86FF98.81C7CF01@alltel.net> Did you Find TEX? I seen it on a cp/m site and have the file somewhere -- when I find it I could email to you. bill .. From root at parse.com Tue Sep 17 17:44:35 2002 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: PDP11/73 (fwd) [GONE!] Message-ID: <200209171513.LAA04960@parse.com> The systems are now spoken for. Thanks to all who replied! Cheers, -RK Forwarded message: > From root Mon Sep 16 14:25:13 2002 > Subject: Re: PDP11/73 (fwd) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:25:13 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Robert Krten" > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] > Content-Length: 1337 > > > Folks, > there are 2 PDP-11/73 (LSI 11/73's) as described below in Oregon; anyone > interested? (I believe it's Eugene/OR) > > I believe the cost is $free$ or very nominal. > > Please reply by Friday of this week, as I promised the guy I'd get > back to him in a week. Preference given to people in the area of > Oregon to minimize grief for the guy. > > If you're interested, reply to me and I'll put you on a #1, #2 order. > Tell me what pieces you're interested in; first come first served. > > If no one is interested, the machines' cards will be pulled and > shipped to Canada :-) > > Cheers, > -RK > > > After more than a decade looking at a stack of PDP-11 hardware in > > my office, I just summoned the courage to put it on a cart to take > > down to the junk heap. Since I am by nature a procrastinator, the > > cart still sits in a corner awaiting its fate. So, if you're interested, I > > have two LSI 11/73's, fully loaded with 4 (count 'em) MB of ram, > > three floppy drives, several hard disks (I can't remember the type > > RL02 maybe). > > I do still > > have 6 of those big 10 mB removable platters. I also have a shelf full of 11/73 > > manuals (RT-11). > > -- > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com > -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From bennyb at ntplx.net Tue Sep 17 17:45:01 2002 From: bennyb at ntplx.net (Ben Bridgwater) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: Wanted: SSI-263 speech chip Message-ID: <3D87926D.9050700@ntplx.net> Hi, I've just acquired an old Micromint Sweettalker II card (phoneme based speech synthesiser for Apple II, based on BYTE '84 design) which is missing the SSI-263 speech chip. Does anyone have an SSI-263P or SSI-263AP chip they're interested in selling, or maybe another old speech card that has one on that I can scavenge? Thanks! Ben From seeker2k02 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 17 18:02:14 2002 From: seeker2k02 at yahoo.com (laurie mintz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: Available: IBM 3833 Modem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020917230228.46769.qmail@web13207.mail.yahoo.com> Bill - I'm interested. Laurie Bill Sudbrink wrote:I recently acquired this through my network of friends who know I collect "old computer stuff". It's a 2400bps 4-wire leased line modem. Seems to have been manufactured in 1984. It has a nice case and power supply, that I'll use for other projects if no one wants it or can make a case for its preservation. I also have the "Maintenance Information and Parts Catalog" (First Edition) and a customer troubleshooting guide. I seem to recall that there are a couple of modem collectors on the list. Email if interested. Bill --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020917/4574042a/attachment.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Sep 17 18:24:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:26 2005 Subject: New Finds Today Message-ID: <000c01c25ea1$79f96bd0$6c000240@oemcomputer> At auction I got a hp 122A Oscilloscope with a operating/service manual for $12.50 Also got the following items: - Toshiba T4850CT/500 laptop for $5 - PowerPC 6100/60 for $2 - Apple dot matrix printer model A9M0303 for $2 - Sega Genesis 16-Bit with PowerBase converter attached for $4 - Lots of mice, cables, and other small items. From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Sep 17 18:27:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:27 2005 Subject: Fw: New Finds Today Message-ID: <003401c25ea1$e6b96310$6c000240@oemcomputer> FYI ----- Original Message ----- From: Keys To: cctech@classiccmp Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 6:25 PM Subject: New Finds Today At auction I got a hp 122A Oscilloscope with a operating/service manual for $12.50 Also got the following items: - Toshiba T4850CT/500 laptop for $5 - PowerPC 6100/60 for $2 - Apple dot matrix printer model A9M0303 for $2 - Sega Genesis 16-Bit with PowerBase converter attached for $4 - Lots of mice, cables, and other small items. From davebarnes at adelphia.net Tue Sep 17 18:56:00 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:27 2005 Subject: what drive does an RV02K WORK disk go in? References: <20020917181634.R163079@marvin.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: <3D87D018.9A45A4DA@adelphia.net> DEC RV20 optical disk drive... is what you are looking for... Brian Hechinger wrote: > and does anyone know where i could get one? i need to get data off of an > RV02K pak, but lack the drive. > > thanks!! > > -brian > -- > Don't get too bent out of shape, for half the world, Calculus is > incomprehensible until they learn the epsilon-delta proof. After learning > the epsilon-delta proof, it's incomprehensible for most of the other half. > -- George Adkins -- -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 17 20:22:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:27 2005 Subject: what drive does an RV02K WORK disk go in? In-Reply-To: from "David Barnes" at Sep 17, 2002 08:00:09 PM Message-ID: <200209180122.g8I1MhM12937@shell1.aracnet.com> Ouch! Good luck. I wonder how rare one of those are. I've heard of them (I think), but I'm pretty sure I've never seen one for sale. Depending on how badly you need the data, you might want to consider looking for a professional data recovery service that might have a drive (unless you're lucky and someone on the list can do it for you). Zane > DEC RV20 optical disk drive... is what you are looking for... > > > > Brian Hechinger wrote: > > > and does anyone know where i could get one? i need to get data off of an > > RV02K pak, but lack the drive. From OwnedByDogs at clearsource.net Tue Sep 17 20:24:00 2002 From: OwnedByDogs at clearsource.net (Kevin Monceaux) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:27 2005 Subject: Fwd: 11/750 Available [sawyer@cbcast.com] In-Reply-To: <20020917090124.A13958@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: Argggh! The second 11/750 I've come across recently looking for a home and neither anywhere near me. If it wasn't for the shipping costs :-( It was an 11/750 I got my first tast of VMS on. Ah, the memories. Kevin On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > Hi. > > Seen this morning on port-vax@netbsd.org: > ----- > On 2002.09.17 02:46 The Sawyers wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > 11/750 available in the Chicago Area, far west suburbs. > > Full Set of spares, front panel down to the power supplies, > Print Set, > > Emulex MASSBUS <-> SMD > 2 Fujitsu Eagles ~430 MB each (SMD) (with boot prom) > 2 CDC Sabre ~ 1BG each (SMD) (with boot prom) > > TU81 (Unibus interface) > Unibus Ethernet > Unibus SCSI > RS232 Multiplexers > > Many TU58 Diagnostic Tapes > Installation Manuals, Hardware Manuals .. and more. > > The whole machine currently will run on a 120V/20A > circuit. (CPU, TU81, 1 Eagle, and both Sabres) > > PLEASE SAVE ME FROM THE DUMPSTER > > Please reply to sawyer@cbcast.com.. > > Thanks ! > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Sep 18 03:02:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:27 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help In-Reply-To: Derek Peschel "Re: MACRO-11 help" (Sep 16, 17:40) References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020916174019.B2524@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <10209180905.ZM8795@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 16, 17:40, Derek Peschel wrote: > On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 12:24:02AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Pat is using PC-relative addressing -- probably inadvertantly. The 67 in > > that opcode 012767 means mode 6, PC-relative, so the address actually used > > Is that why the apostrophes show up after the data? I had noticed them > and I know what they mean (relocatable data) but I thought it might be > the lack of correct pseudo-ops. Now I see there are no apostrophes after > the declarations at the beginning of the file, only after the later > references. > I'm not sure I would have defined "relocatable" that way. (Even though the > program never sets . it isn't marked as relocatable, and there aren't any > external modules that can be relocated.) But it's still a useful definition > if it catches errors. Well, addressing mode 6 and 7 aren't meant merely to generate relocatable code -- given suitable information, any linker can relocate code. Mode 6 and Mode 7 generate position-independant code (PIC), code that can be moved at any time without alteration. The PDP-11 was designed to make that easy. On Sep 17, 4:26, Derek Peschel wrote: > Pete, I replied to your other post in this thread. I'm just trying to > understand what "the right thing to do" is here. Well, I'd say the "right thing to do" is to use absolute addressing modes. What modes 6/7 do is generate references which are relative to the instruction address. They're meant for things that will move if the code is moved (eg the target of a JSR). However, the address of a device register doesn't move, so although it's possible to refer to using modes 6/7, it breaks the position-independance of the code. If you move the code, you need to recalculate the address offset. Once assembled, the first part of Pat's code, despite using mode 6, is not PIC: 4 177564 XSR=177564 5 177566 XBUF=177566 6 7 001000 012767 000110 177566' MOV #110,XBUF 8 001006 105767 177564' L1: TSTB XSR 9 001012 100375 BPL L1 10 001014 012767 000064 177566' MOV #64,XBUF 11 001022 105767 177564' L2: TSTB XSR 12 001026 100375 BPL L2 13 001030 012767 000130 177566' MOV #130,XBUF The actual values in the finally-assembled code would be (if I've done my arithmetic correctly): 7 001000 012767 000110 176552 MOV #110,XBUF 8 001006 105767 176550 L1: TSTB XSR 9 001012 100375 BPL L1 10 001014 012767 000064 176536 MOV #64,XBUF 11 001022 105767 176534 L2: TSTB XSR 12 001026 100375 BPL L2 13 001030 012767 000130 17652 2 MOV #130,XBUF Note that the pointers to XSR and XBUF change according to their position in the code, because they're PC-relative (even if my PC-relative arithmetic is wrong, the differences are correct). Now if he'd written it using absolute addresses: 7 001000 012737 000110 177566 MOV #110,@#XBUF 8 001006 105737 177564 L1: TSTB @#XSR 9 001012 100375 BPL L1 10 001014 012737 000064 177566 MOV #64,@#XBUF 11 001022 105737 177564 L2: TSTB @#XSR 12 001026 100335 BPL L2 13 001030 012737 000130 177566 MOV #130,@#XBUF ... they don't change. Moreover, since there are no JMPs or JSRs, only (relative) BRanches, this is PIC. Now if he wanted to write it using a subroutine, and he used the simple method: 7 001000 012701 000110 MOV #'H', R1 8 001006 004537 JSR R5, @#PUT 9 001012 012701 000064 MOV #'4', R1 10 001014 004537 JSR R5, @#PUT 11 001022 012701 000130 MOV #'X', R1 12 001026 004537 JSR R5, @#PUT : : 35 001100 105767 177564 PUT: TSTB @#XSR 36 001104 100375 BPL PUT 37 001106 010137 177566 MOV R1, @#XBUF 38 001112 000205 RTS R5 That's hand-assembled, in a hurry, so don't rely on the opcodes being correct! but the point is that the subroutine is referred to by its absolute address, so the first part of the code can be moved but not the subroutine (because its address is fixed). However, if it were written using relative addressing, ie 8 001006 004567 JSR R5, PUT : 35 001100 105767 177564 PUT: TSTB @#XSR then the whole thing can be placed anywhere in memory without alteration (so long as the subroutine stays in the same position relative to the rest). Of course, the subroutine still uses absoute addresses for the registers. Does that make it clear what the point of the two types of addressing is? My example is a bit contrived; that's not really how I'd do it. Instead, I'd write a subroutine that wrote out a whole string, the string being stored immediately after the JSR, and returning to the word after the string. But that's another story. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From P.Gebhardt at gmx.de Wed Sep 18 03:13:12 2002 From: P.Gebhardt at gmx.de (P.Gebhardt@gmx.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:27 2005 Subject: Emulex QD32 References: <3D876429.E6027138@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <7147.1032336808@www40.gmx.net> Hello Emanuel, Thanks for your answer ! the Modell 9715(0)-515 is, in a way, the FSD-500 drive (CDC description). I found the values of the drive, but I don't know to what kind of machine these drives were connected before. And theses drives have lots of jumpers. I guess, we're both searching the manuals... Anybody an idea where we can find manuals of these drives ? Greetings Pierre > P.Gebhardt@gmx.de wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > Moreover, the descriptions on the net are a bit confusing. > > Several sites say that the QD32 is an E-SMD controller, while other > sites > > talk of a SMD-Controller ? > > supports SMD & SMD-E, up to 20 MHz. > > Certified are: > > CDC: 9457 LMD, 9710-80, 9715-340, 9715-515, 9720, 9771 XMD > CDS 315, > Fujitsu: 2298, 2321, 2322, M2333, m2351a, m2361a > NEC 2352 > > > I hope that the QD32 supports E-SMD as I read that these drives are > E-SMD > > drives... > > Same case as to the controller... I can't find any descriptions or > manuals > > on the net in order to set the jumpers correctly. > > I thought that the qd32 manual is on the net somewhere ... > > > And the last thing: 3 big FSD-500 (CDC) drives (9") are waiting > > to be connected. > > Do you have the manuals for them ? > You probably have to setup the QD32-NVRAM with the right values ... > > cheers > -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From P.Gebhardt at gmx.de Wed Sep 18 03:23:09 2002 From: P.Gebhardt at gmx.de (P.Gebhardt@gmx.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:27 2005 Subject: Emulex QD32 References: Message-ID: <32400.1032337448@www40.gmx.net> Hello Will, next time I should read ALL the emails... The drive is from the 9715 family and the correct number should be CDC 9715-500. I don't know if it's technically different from the model 9715-515 (difference in 15 MB more capacity). What is the PA5 variety exactly ? Pierre > Pierre, > I have a QD32 manual.. if those drives are PA5 variety, then I have > manuals > too.. please provide the model numbers. > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Sep 18 03:24:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:27 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help In-Reply-To: Derek Peschel "Re: MACRO-11 help" (Sep 16, 17:40) References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020916174019.B2524@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <10209180926.ZM8824@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Sigh. I really should read what I've written, before I post it. Being in a hurry is no good excuse. I missed out a whole column (the destination address) in the JSRs! And forgot to alter the addresses to allow for the different instruction lengths :-( On Sep 18, 9:05, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Now if he wanted to write it using a subroutine, and he used the simple > method: It should be something like: 7 001000 012701 000110 MOV #'H', R1 8 001004 004537 001100 JSR R5, @#PUT 9 001010 012701 000064 MOV #'4', R1 10 001014 004537 001100 JSR R5, @#PUT 11 001020 012701 000130 MOV #'X', R1 12 001024 004537 001100 JSR R5, @#PUT : : 35 001100 105767 177564 PUT: TSTB @#XSR 36 001104 100375 BPL PUT 37 001106 010137 177566 MOV R1, @#XBUF 38 001112 000205 RTS R5 > However, if it were written using relative addressing, ie 8 001004 004567 000070 JSR R5, PUT 9 001010 012701 000064 MOV #'4', R1 10 001014 004567 000060 JSR R5, PUT : 35 001100 105767 177564 PUT: TSTB @#XSR Apologies for any confusion. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Sep 18 08:00:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: Imlac assembler almost ready... In-Reply-To: <3D874239.6090206@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020916110445.01a73918@ubanproductions.com> <1443120754.20020916081649@subatomix.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904124038.01afc8c0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904150256.01adbc00@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904173738.01ad3cd8@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020904175048.01b08ae0@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906090505.01b35098@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020906125622.01a52570@ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20020912182009.01ae93b8@ubanproductions.com> <3D821609.40206@tiac.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20020916110445.01a73918@ubanproductions.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020917104847.0262a558@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020918225737.00bace40@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 08:54 AM 17/09/2002 -0600, Ben Franchuk wrote: >Huw Davies wrote: > >>The main issue is that whilst there are lots of C implementations (which >>allows for >>portability) the fact that lots of people write very non-portable C is >>bad. The >>real killer (from personal experience) are those programmers who think >>sizeof(int) == sizeof(*int). This breaks lots of "portable" code when moving >>away from a typical 32bit machine (especially to alpha). > Or 16 bit code to a 32 bit machine. I wasn't going to mention that but perhaps I should have. There were lots of problems migrating code written on Unix running on PDP-11s to VAXes (and other 32 bit systems). You'd have thought that this would have triggered the mindset of programmers not to make unnecessary architectural dependencies when writing code but obviously not. "He who ignores history is destined to repeat it" rings true here. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Sep 18 08:02:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: Anyone attend the MIT flea market last weekend? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020918084345.4e1719e4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:18 AM 9/17/02 -0400, Jim wrote: > >>From: Bob Shannon >> Well, the September Flea is generally one of the largest, as all the >> freshman have just arrived for the >> term. But the turn-out was rather light in my opinion, due to the >> weather reports. > >I think the first two had the best turnout, but I missed a couple in >the middle. > >> I arrived rather late, so I don't know what vintage items I may have >> missed. > >I was there at 9 and didn't see anything worth mentioning. It seems >like a lot of the more interesting sellers start out the summer with a >few vintagy items amid a mountain of PC/Sun/Apple and, as the summer >goes on, sell them and are left with mostly PC stuff. Also a lot of >the smaller guys seem to drop out over the course of the summer. I went to the Melbourne hamfest and there was almost no computer stuff there. No Trash-80s, Commie 64s, Ataris, not even much PC stuff. But I did find a SWTPC on a junk table! Joe From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Sep 18 08:52:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: Fwd: 11/750 Available [sawyer@cbcast.com] In-Reply-To: References: <20020917090124.A13958@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020918135230.GA1213014@uiuc.edu> Hell, I'm in champaign-urbana, which is close enough to chicago...problem is, I couldn't fit the 11/750 in my apartment, nor up the 3 flights of stairs. damn it! Kevin Monceaux said: > > Argggh! The second 11/750 I've come across recently looking for a home > and neither anywhere near me. If it wasn't for the shipping costs :-( It > was an 11/750 I got my first tast of VMS on. Ah, the memories. > > Kevin > > On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > Seen this morning on port-vax@netbsd.org: > > ----- > > On 2002.09.17 02:46 The Sawyers wrote: > > Hey Everyone, > > > > 11/750 available in the Chicago Area, far west suburbs. > > > > Full Set of spares, front panel down to the power supplies, > > Print Set, > > > > Emulex MASSBUS <-> SMD > > 2 Fujitsu Eagles ~430 MB each (SMD) (with boot prom) > > 2 CDC Sabre ~ 1BG each (SMD) (with boot prom) > > > > TU81 (Unibus interface) > > Unibus Ethernet > > Unibus SCSI > > RS232 Multiplexers > > > > Many TU58 Diagnostic Tapes > > Installation Manuals, Hardware Manuals .. and more. > > > > The whole machine currently will run on a 120V/20A > > circuit. (CPU, TU81, 1 Eagle, and both Sabres) > > > > PLEASE SAVE ME FROM THE DUMPSTER > > > > Please reply to sawyer@cbcast.com.. > > > > Thanks ! > > > > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed Sep 18 09:05:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: ADM-3A/HP 6144 Terminal Updates In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020918084345.4e1719e4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020918140526.10279.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> ADM-3A/HP 6144 Terminal Updates ADM-3A I just "restored" a nice brown/beige ADM-3A. I got a new CRT for USD 50, and then noticed that this unit didn't have lower case installed. What the "lower case" option consisted of was a lower case 2513-type ROM and a couple of 2102-1 chips, all of which can be inserted into sockets on the motherboard. Problem is, the lower case 2513 LC ROM is not readily available. So I built an adapter to make the multi-voltage 2513 PMOS chip I had from my other ADM-3A look like a 2716 to my EPROM programmer/reader. I read the upper and lower case chips, programmed a lower case 2716, and made a small adapter from to make the 2716 "look" like a 2513 in the socket, installed the chips/adapter, flipped a few switches, and voila! This is detailed at http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/adm3a-2.htm I don't think that this is the FIRST time that this has been done - but it might be among the last! HP2644A I've finished the keyboard, and got some paint that fairly matches what I THINK that the original color of this unit was. A several-hour long job was the buffing of all (all) of the keys - this made a MAJOR difference in the appearance of the unit (the keys are NOT supposed to be chalky yellow). I found a source for the unusual tube - but they want USD 225 for it! They assure me that they use a type of acrylic between the faceplate and the safety glass that will never yellow, separate, or grow mold. Still, this is a lot of money, and I intend to do the hair-raising act of heating a nichrome wire (arriving soon) to separate the faceplate from the CRT's safety glass/front. Assuming that I survive with minimal injury and am capable of writing anything, I will detail this operation on my web pages. If anyone has $225 to spend on a tube, contact me. I beleive that this tube was also used on HP equipment more worthy of spending $225 on. http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/hp2644a.htm __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Sep 18 09:08:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020916174019.B2524@eskimo.eskimo.com> <10209180905.ZM8795@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3D8888CF.83271C08@compsys.to> >Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Sep 17, 4:26, Derek Peschel wrote: > > Pete, I replied to your other post in this thread. I'm just trying to > > understand what "the right thing to do" is here. > Well, I'd say the "right thing to do" is to use absolute addressing modes. > What modes 6/7 do is generate references which are relative to the > instruction address. They're meant for things that will move if the code > is moved (eg the target of a JSR). However, the address of a device > register doesn't move, so although it's possible to refer to using modes > 6/7, it breaks the position-independance of the code. If you move the > code, you need to recalculate the address offset. > > Once assembled, the first part of Pat's code, despite using mode 6, is not > PIC: > > 4 177564 XSR=177564 > 5 177566 XBUF=177566 > 6 > 7 001000 012767 000110 177566' MOV #110,XBUF > 8 001006 105767 177564' L1: TSTB XSR > 9 001012 100375 BPL L1 > 10 001014 012767 000064 177566' MOV #64,XBUF > 11 001022 105767 177564' L2: TSTB XSR > 12 001026 100375 BPL L2 > 13 001030 012767 000130 177566' MOV #130,XBUF > > The actual values in the finally-assembled code would be (if I've done my > arithmetic correctly): > > 7 001000 012767 000110 176552 MOV #110,XBUF > 8 001006 105767 176550 L1: TSTB XSR > 9 001012 100375 BPL L1 > 10 001014 012767 000064 176536 MOV #64,XBUF > 11 001022 105767 176534 L2: TSTB XSR > 12 001026 100375 BPL L2 > 13 001030 012767 000130 17652 2 MOV #130,XBUF > > Note that the pointers to XSR and XBUF change according to their position > in the code, because they're PC-relative (even if my PC-relative arithmetic > is wrong, the differences are correct). > > Now if he'd written it using absolute addresses: > > 7 001000 012737 000110 177566 MOV #110,@#XBUF > 8 001006 105737 177564 L1: TSTB @#XSR > 9 001012 100375 BPL L1 > 10 001014 012737 000064 177566 MOV #64,@#XBUF > 11 001022 105737 177564 L2: TSTB @#XSR > 12 001026 100335 BPL L2 > 13 001030 012737 000130 177566 MOV #130,@#XBUF > > ... they don't change. Moreover, since there are no JMPs or JSRs, only > (relative) BRanches, this is PIC. > > Now if he wanted to write it using a subroutine, and he used the simple > method: > > 7 001000 012701 000110 MOV #'H', R1 > 8 001006 004537 JSR R5, @#PUT > 9 001012 012701 000064 MOV #'4', R1 > 10 001014 004537 JSR R5, @#PUT > 11 001022 012701 000130 MOV #'X', R1 > 12 001026 004537 JSR R5, @#PUT > : > : > 35 001100 105767 177564 PUT: TSTB @#XSR > 36 001104 100375 BPL PUT > 37 001106 010137 177566 MOV R1, @#XBUF > 38 001112 000205 RTS R5 > > That's hand-assembled, in a hurry, so don't rely on the opcodes being > correct! but the point is that the subroutine is referred to by its > absolute address, so the first part of the code can be moved but not the > subroutine (because its address is fixed). However, if it were written > using relative addressing, ie > > 8 001006 004567 JSR R5, PUT > : > 35 001100 105767 177564 PUT: TSTB @#XSR > > then the whole thing can be placed anywhere in memory without alteration > (so > long as the subroutine stays in the same position relative to the rest). > Of > course, the subroutine still uses absoute addresses for the registers. > > Does that make it clear what the point of the two types of addressing is? > > My example is a bit contrived; that's not really how I'd do it. Instead, > I'd write a subroutine that wrote out a whole string, the string being > stored immediately after the JSR, and returning to the word after the > string. But that's another story. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York Jerome Fine replies: All of which implies, in my opinion, that programming has elements of an artistic endeavor. In addition, there is no absolute correct way, only a preferred manner. Depending on the goals and the environment in which the program runs and is developed, that preferred manner can change. And while so-called efficient assembler language programming is often measured by the total number of instructions combined with the speed of execution, code that is easy to understand is also, in my opinion, even more important. In regard to this latter aspect, in most situations, my personal experience has been that code which is easy to understand depends more on the visual aspects plus the comments, but two additional criteria are even more important for large programs: (a) The realization that almost all programs have bugs that will need to be eliminated long after the original designer/implementor has departed from the project. Enhancements will be even more frequent. After a number of years, even the original group who develops a large project will forget some of the details. Adequate documentation at a very high level is critical. (b) Modular design of a large program is usually essential to ensure adequate control, but not always. There are a few situations when one huge program is still more manageable. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Sep 18 09:18:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: ADM-3A/HP 6144 Terminal Updates In-Reply-To: <20020918140526.10279.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020918084345.4e1719e4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020918091833.01b11d38@ubanproductions.com> At 07:05 AM 9/18/2002 -0700, you wrote: >ADM-3A/HP 6144 Terminal Updates > >ADM-3A > >I just "restored" a nice brown/beige ADM-3A. I got a >new CRT for USD 50, and then noticed that this unit >didn't have lower case installed. What the "lower >case" option consisted of was a lower case 2513-type >ROM and a couple of 2102-1 chips, all of which can be >inserted into sockets on the motherboard. Problem is, >the lower case 2513 LC ROM is not readily available. >So I built an adapter to make the multi-voltage 2513 >PMOS chip I had from my other ADM-3A look like a 2716 >to my EPROM programmer/reader. I read the upper and >lower case chips, programmed a lower case 2716, and >made a small adapter from to make the 2716 "look" like >a 2513 in the socket, installed the chips/adapter, >flipped a few switches, and voila! > >This is detailed at >http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/adm3a-2.htm > > > >I don't think that this is the FIRST time that this >has been done - but it might be among the last! Nice! Back in the day, at Purdue University, we modified a number of ADM-3a terminals with a 2x PROM which contained an APL character set. We then added a toggle switch in the little metal plate on the left of the keyboard and stuck stickers onto the keyboard so that you could select normal terminal mode or APL mode and program in APL... --tom >HP2644A > >I've finished the keyboard, and got some paint that >fairly matches what I THINK that the original color of >this unit was. A several-hour long job was the buffing >of all (all) of the keys - this made a MAJOR >difference in the appearance of the unit (the keys are >NOT supposed to be chalky yellow). > >I found a source for the unusual tube - but they want >USD 225 for it! They assure me that they use a type of >acrylic between the faceplate and the safety glass >that will never yellow, separate, or grow mold. Still, >this is a lot of money, and I intend to do the >hair-raising act of heating a nichrome wire (arriving >soon) to separate the faceplate from the CRT's safety >glass/front. Assuming that I survive with minimal >injury and am capable of writing anything, I will >detail this operation on my web pages. > >If anyone has $225 to spend on a tube, contact me. I >beleive that this tube was also used on HP equipment >more worthy of spending $225 on. > > >http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/hp2644a.htm > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! News - Today's headlines >http://news.yahoo.com From MTPro at aol.com Wed Sep 18 09:27:00 2002 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! Message-ID: <5C1EF80E.3A320F17.0000EF7A@aol.com> One more time. Anyone?! Would anyone please have an extra power plug they could sell me for my generic S-100 computer? Somehow mine must have gotten given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a picture to anyone who needs to verify. I haven't had it up and running for a couple of years now, and I would like to. Thank you, David From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Sep 18 09:36:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help In-Reply-To: <10209180905.ZM8795@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > My example is a bit contrived; that's not really how I'd do it. Instead, > I'd write a subroutine that wrote out a whole string, the string being > stored immediately after the JSR, and returning to the word after the > string. But that's another story. FYI, I was trying to use that as an example to try and learn MACRO-11 (fun stuff, eh?). I've made myself a subroutine version of the code also, I'm not yet trying for reusable or well-written code, just something I can quickly enter into ODT and see if what I did worked. -- Pat From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Sep 18 10:09:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! In-Reply-To: <5C1EF80E.3A320F17.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <005801c25f25$5adbad10$90f8b8ce@impac.com> I don't have a plug, but couldn't you bypass the power socket on the back of the machine with a regular power cord? Depending on how the case is set up you should be able to do that without modifying anything. Of course, this only applies if your original power cord was also a straight plug. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of MTPro@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 7:29 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! One more time. Anyone?! Would anyone please have an extra power plug they could sell me for my generic S-100 computer? Somehow mine must have gotten given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a picture to anyone who needs to verify. I haven't had it up and running for a couple of years now, and I would like to. Thank you, David From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Sep 18 10:44:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: NCR Tower help (was Re: New acquisition) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What I've managed to pick up looks like an NCR Tower 400 series machine. I managed to find a DA15 pinout for the majority of the serial ports on the machine in the old classiccmp archive. However, the 'console' port "B" is a DE9, not a DA15, and definately isn't the same pinout as IBM has used. Any help with the pinout would be appreaciated, thanks! -- Pat On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > dimensions) and weighs in excess of 100LBS. It has a pair of MFM hard > > drives (full height 5.25") a streaming tape drive, and a 5.25" floppy > > drive mounted in it. Also has 8 RS-232 DA-15 serial ports, a parallel (?) > > printer port, and some sort of other, possibly serial, DB-25 port. > > It has a 68010 CPU, 4MB of RAM (As far as I can tell), and a multibus > interface that has the floppy/hard drive controller, RS-232 line > controller (with a dedicated 68010), a tape controller, and a controller > for a second bus that has an I/O modules of some sort stuck in it. > > There's three more slots, so it's possible that additional Multibus cards > could be placed in it. > > Right now (or after I get some sleep), I'm trying to determine the pinout > on the console ports so that I can connect something to the machine and > watch the console messages. I love (*cough* *cough*) the non-standard > DA15F and DE9F RS-232 ports on this thing. > > The ST-506 interface drives are Hitachi DK511-5's, 41MB each. A bit > smaller than the 140MB drives I had with my Unisys U5000. > > Pictures will come tomorrow, and be available at > http://purdueriots.com/classiccmp/ncr_multibus/ > > -- Pat > > From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Sep 18 10:51:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: NCR Tower help (was Re: New acquisition) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, Ignore me. I just found it on my first try searching comp.sys.ncr with google. However, does anyone else still have one of these beasts lying around? I'm probably going to need more assistance once I a serial console connection to it up. -- Pat On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > What I've managed to pick up looks like an NCR Tower 400 series machine. > I managed to find a DA15 pinout for the majority of the serial ports on > the machine in the old classiccmp archive. However, the 'console' port > "B" is a DE9, not a DA15, and definately isn't the same pinout as IBM has > used. > > Any help with the pinout would be appreaciated, thanks! > > -- Pat > > On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > > dimensions) and weighs in excess of 100LBS. It has a pair of MFM hard > > > drives (full height 5.25") a streaming tape drive, and a 5.25" floppy > > > drive mounted in it. Also has 8 RS-232 DA-15 serial ports, a parallel (?) > > > printer port, and some sort of other, possibly serial, DB-25 port. > > > > It has a 68010 CPU, 4MB of RAM (As far as I can tell), and a multibus > > interface that has the floppy/hard drive controller, RS-232 line > > controller (with a dedicated 68010), a tape controller, and a controller > > for a second bus that has an I/O modules of some sort stuck in it. > > > > There's three more slots, so it's possible that additional Multibus cards > > could be placed in it. > > > > Right now (or after I get some sleep), I'm trying to determine the pinout > > on the console ports so that I can connect something to the machine and > > watch the console messages. I love (*cough* *cough*) the non-standard > > DA15F and DE9F RS-232 ports on this thing. > > > > The ST-506 interface drives are Hitachi DK511-5's, 41MB each. A bit > > smaller than the 140MB drives I had with my Unisys U5000. > > > > Pictures will come tomorrow, and be available at > > http://purdueriots.com/classiccmp/ncr_multibus/ > > > > -- Pat > > > > > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Sep 18 12:07:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! Message-ID: <200209181707.KAA06097@clulw009.amd.com> >From: MTPro@aol.com >One more time. Anyone?! Would anyone please have an extra power plug they could sell me for my generic S-100 computer? Somehow mine must have gotten given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a picture to anyone who needs to verify. I haven't had it up and running for a couple of years now, and I would like to. Thank you, David > Hi I have an Allied catalog that is a couple of years old. They call these SVT cords. They have several listed: manuf Manuf# Allied# Length Price Alpha 543 663-7082 7'6" 4.62 Belden 17952 612-3569 8' 5.38 Belden 17280 612-3677 7'6" 4.84 Hope this helps Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Sep 18 13:07:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! In-Reply-To: <200209181707.KAA06097@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020918141026.592f3c88@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:07 AM 9/18/02 -0700, you wrote: >>From: MTPro@aol.com > >>One more time. Anyone?! Would anyone please have an extra power plug they >could sell me for my generic S-100 computer? Somehow mine must have gotten >given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval >female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a >picture to anyone who needs to verify. I haven't had it up and running for a >couple of years now, and I would like to. Thank you, David >> > >Hi > I have an Allied catalog that is a couple of years >old. They call these SVT cords. Are you sure? I looked up SVT pwer cords on the net and every site that I looked at said that SVT was some kind of plastic and not a plug configuration. I'm trying to figure out what David is looking for but I don't remember ever seeing a power cord with oval prongs. Joe They have several >listed: > >manuf Manuf# Allied# Length Price >Alpha 543 663-7082 7'6" 4.62 >Belden 17952 612-3569 8' 5.38 >Belden 17280 612-3677 7'6" 4.84 > >Hope this helps >Dwight > > > From bruce at consultbcm.com Wed Sep 18 13:17:01 2002 From: bruce at consultbcm.com (Bruce Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: Early Computer Magazines Message-ID: <2A5A3FEECF38BC41B83AEDAF6AB568DC03D7DF@server.bcm.local> Would anyone be interested in the first four years issues of Kilobaud Microcomputing magazine. These are in good condition and cover the period from January 1977 to December 1980, with February 1981 thrown in as a bonus! If so, make me an offer! Bruce Michael -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020918/7eb1042d/attachment.html From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Sep 18 14:07:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: NCR Tower help : recovering root password In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Sep 18 14:13:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:28 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! Message-ID: <200209181914.MAA06209@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Joe > >At 10:07 AM 9/18/02 -0700, you wrote: >>>From: MTPro@aol.com >> >>>One more time. Anyone?! Would anyone please have an extra power plug they >>could sell me for my generic S-100 computer? Somehow mine must have gotten >>given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval >>female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a >>picture to anyone who needs to verify. I haven't had it up and running for a >>couple of years now, and I would like to. Thank you, David >>> >> >>Hi >> I have an Allied catalog that is a couple of years >>old. They call these SVT cords. > > Are you sure? I looked up SVT pwer cords on the net and every site that I looked at said that SVT was some kind of plastic and not a plug configuration. > > I'm trying to figure out what David is looking for but I don't remember ever seeing a power cord with oval prongs. It looks like I may have been looking at the wrong thing. I thought he was looking for the older type of HP instrument cord. I don't know of anything that has oval prongs. I thought he meant oval housing. SVT is the power cord style, not the material. Maybe he needs to be a little clearer. Is this an AC power connector we are talking about? Dwight > > Joe > > > They have several >>listed: >> >>manuf Manuf# Allied# Length Price >>Alpha 543 663-7082 7'6" 4.62 >>Belden 17952 612-3569 8' 5.38 >>Belden 17280 612-3677 7'6" 4.84 >> >>Hope this helps >>Dwight >> >> >> > > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Sep 18 14:30:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! Message-ID: <200209181930.MAA06246@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >>From: Joe >> >>At 10:07 AM 9/18/02 -0700, you wrote: >>>>From: MTPro@aol.com >>> >>>>One more time. Anyone?! Would anyone please have an extra power plug they >>>could sell me for my generic S-100 computer? Somehow mine must have gotten >>>given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval >>>female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a >>>picture to anyone who needs to verify. I haven't had it up and running for >a >>>couple of years now, and I would like to. Thank you, David >>>> >>> >>>Hi >>> I have an Allied catalog that is a couple of years >>>old. They call these SVT cords. >> >> Are you sure? I looked up SVT pwer cords on the net and every site that >I looked at said that SVT was some kind of plastic and not a plug >configuration. >> >> I'm trying to figure out what David is looking for but I don't remember >ever seeing a power cord with oval prongs. > > It looks like I may have been looking at the wrong thing. I thought >he was looking for the older type of HP instrument cord. I don't >know of anything that has oval prongs. I thought he meant oval >housing. > SVT is the power cord style, not the material. I'd like to modify that. I found a specific page that defines it as 18 guage stranded (S) vacuum cleaner (V) cord with plastic outsides (T). I see on closer looks, they are refering to the cable used. The only mention of the connector type is in one place, they call it a PH-163 which I think is a NEMA number. Dwight > Maybe he needs to be a little clearer. Is this an AC power >connector we are talking about? >Dwight > >> >> Joe >> >> >> They have several >>>listed: >>> >>>manuf Manuf# Allied# Length Price >>>Alpha 543 663-7082 7'6" 4.62 >>>Belden 17952 612-3569 8' 5.38 >>>Belden 17280 612-3677 7'6" 4.84 >>> >>>Hope this helps >>>Dwight >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Sep 18 14:39:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! Message-ID: <200209181939.MAA06267@clulw009.amd.com> >X-Server-Uuid: e4c4d26a-1188-11d5-b029-00508be35655 >X-Server-Uuid: 02753650-11b0-11d5-bbc5-00508bf987eb >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >Subject: Re: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-WSS-ID: 11960BE4991835-01-01 >X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org >X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 >X-Reply-To: "Dwight K. Elvey" >List-Unsubscribe: , >List-Id: Classic Computers Mailing List -- Anything Goes >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: , >List-Archive: >X-Original-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:30:55 -0700 (PDT) >Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:30:55 -0700 (PDT) >X-WSS-ID: 11960AA5449089-01-02 >Content-MD5: SJYufKz8xm+8OEhEs7N1vg== >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >>From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >> >>>From: Joe >>> >>>At 10:07 AM 9/18/02 -0700, you wrote: >>>>>From: MTPro@aol.com >>>> >>>>>One more time. Anyone?! Would anyone please have an extra power plug >they >>>>could sell me for my generic S-100 computer? Somehow mine must have >gotten >>>>given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval >>>>female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish >a >>>>picture to anyone who needs to verify. I haven't had it up and running >for >>a >>>>couple of years now, and I would like to. Thank you, David >>>>> >>>> >>>>Hi >>>> I have an Allied catalog that is a couple of years >>>>old. They call these SVT cords. >>> >>> Are you sure? I looked up SVT pwer cords on the net and every site >that >>I looked at said that SVT was some kind of plastic and not a plug >>configuration. >>> >>> I'm trying to figure out what David is looking for but I don't remember >>ever seeing a power cord with oval prongs. >> >> It looks like I may have been looking at the wrong thing. I thought >>he was looking for the older type of HP instrument cord. I don't >>know of anything that has oval prongs. I thought he meant oval >>housing. >> SVT is the power cord style, not the material. > > I'd like to modify that. I found a specific page that defines >it as 18 guage stranded (S) vacuum cleaner (V) cord with plastic >outsides (T). I see on closer looks, they are refering to the >cable used. The only mention of the connector type is in >one place, they call it a PH-163 which I think is a NEMA number. >Dwight > >> Maybe he needs to be a little clearer. Is this an AC power >>connector we are talking about? >>Dwight >> >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> They have several >>>>listed: >>>> >>>>manuf Manuf# Allied# Length Price >>>>Alpha 543 663-7082 7'6" 4.62 >>>>Belden 17952 612-3569 8' 5.38 >>>>Belden 17280 612-3677 7'6" 4.84 An interesting side note about the Belden cords that I found in a web search: " The Eberline Instruments using the non-standard AC cord are listed on page two of this bulletin. Belden power cord model #17280 has standard polarity per UL 817 and CSA 895B and should NOT be used on the Eberline instruments listed. Belden model #17952 has polarity, neutral and lines reversed and is the only cord to be used on the Eberline Instruments listed. The non-standard cords come from the manufacturer with a paper label stating that they have reversed polarity but the labels are susceptible to damage and are easily lost. " Later Dwight >>>> >>>>Hope this helps >>>>Dwight >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From quapla at xs4all.nl Wed Sep 18 15:13:01 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: NCR Tower help : recovering root password References: Message-ID: <3D88DD13.93B403FD@xs4all.nl> You could try to use tftp to get into the machine. AFAIK, tftp was not disabled and you could extract the '/etc/passwd' file and use a cracker to decode the root password. These older system 5 Unixes did have the password in this file. Ed Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > >From the login prompt, it's obviously an NCR Tower XP. And, it looks like > the system is booting just fine, I just need to hit a key to get it to > show a login: prompt. > > Now for the problem: I have no idea what any of the passwords are on the > machine. Searching comp.os.unisys and comp.os.ncr bring no useful > results. The only non-pasworded account on the machine (that I can find so > far) seems to be 'startup'. Any ideas on how to 'break in' without an OS > install floppy/tape? > > Thanks for any help! > > -- Pat -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn onbetrouwbaar quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Wie mij te na komt zal het weten. '97 TL1000S | From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Sep 18 15:31:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: NCR Tower help : recovering root password In-Reply-To: <3D88DD13.93B403FD@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, The Wanderer wrote: > > You could try to use tftp to get into the machine. AFAIK, tftp was not That would be a nice idea, but this machine doesn't have an ethernet or other 'netowork' connection that I can hook up to another machine I own. It has some sort of sync serial interface, I think, but that doesn't really help me any. -- Pat > > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > >From the login prompt, it's obviously an NCR Tower XP. And, it looks like > > the system is booting just fine, I just need to hit a key to get it to > > show a login: prompt. > > > > Now for the problem: I have no idea what any of the passwords are on the > > machine. Searching comp.os.unisys and comp.os.ncr bring no useful > > results. The only non-pasworded account on the machine (that I can find so > > far) seems to be 'startup'. Any ideas on how to 'break in' without an OS > > install floppy/tape? > > > > Thanks for any help! > > > > -- Pat > > -- > The Wanderer | Politici zijn onbetrouwbaar > quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers > http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. > Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Wie mij te na komt zal het weten. > '97 TL1000S | > From patrick at evocative.com Wed Sep 18 15:34:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: NCR Tower help : recovering root password In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Now for the problem: I have no idea what any of the passwords are on the > machine. Searching comp.os.unisys and comp.os.ncr bring no useful > results. The only non-pasworded account on the machine (that I can find so > far) seems to be 'startup'. Any ideas on how to 'break in' without an OS > install floppy/tape? Pat, many older *nix's allow you boot into single user mode without a password, giving you a shell prompt on the system console. At that point, /etc is probably mounted as part of /. You should be able to change or surgically remove the password with passwd|ed|vi. If it has a boot prompt on the way up, try entering "-s" or hitting "?". --Patrick From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Sep 18 15:39:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! In-Reply-To: <200209181914.MAA06209@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020918164055.3d1766fa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:14 PM 9/18/02 -0700, you wrote: >>From: Joe >> >>At 10:07 AM 9/18/02 -0700, you wrote: >>>>From: MTPro@aol.com >>> >>>>One more time. Anyone?! Would anyone please have an extra power plug they >>>could sell me for my generic S-100 computer? Somehow mine must have gotten >>>given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval >>>female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a >>>picture to anyone who needs to verify. I haven't had it up and running for >a >>>couple of years now, and I would like to. Thank you, David >>>> >>> >>>Hi >>> I have an Allied catalog that is a couple of years >>>old. They call these SVT cords. >> >> Are you sure? I looked up SVT pwer cords on the net and every site that >I looked at said that SVT was some kind of plastic and not a plug >configuration. >> >> I'm trying to figure out what David is looking for but I don't remember >ever seeing a power cord with oval prongs. > > It looks like I may have been looking at the wrong thing. I thought >he was looking for the older type of HP instrument cord. I don't >know of anything that has oval prongs. I thought he meant oval >housing. That's what I thought too until I read it closer. Joe From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Sep 18 15:48:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: NCR Tower help : recovering root password In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Pat, many older *nix's allow you boot into single user mode without a > password, giving you a shell prompt on the system console. At that point, > /etc is probably mounted as part of /. You should be able to change or > surgically remove the password with passwd|ed|vi. If it has a boot prompt > on the way up, try entering "-s" or hitting "?". --Patrick No luck there, either. It boots up into single user mode, with no prompts, and then gives a "login:" prompt. At that point, you enter 'startup' to get it to go into multiuser mode, which (I'm guessing) brings up all of the other terminal logins. When I get some time (maybe not for another week or so) I'll try probing all the other terminal ports to see if there's anything other than a login prompt on them. Once I'm in, I pretty much know how to get around and change the password, but it's the 'getting in' part that has me stumped at the moment. -- Pat From allain at panix.com Wed Sep 18 16:11:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! References: <200209181930.MAA06246@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <011d01c25f57$e6f67460$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> One solution for making a power plug that I have never been desperate enough to use (I have a cord with two insulated alligator clips on the end for temporary --and very careful-- application) is to go to a model or large art store where they sell very narrow metal tubes (2mm to 8mm+ OD). Then: force the tube over the prong. cut to length solder and shrink-wrap to power cord. epoxy the pins to the right distance apart. This I might test very carefully as well. Not for construction by minors, etc. John A. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Sep 18 16:14:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Kurz-Kasch Signature II Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020918165907.218fcb06@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, Does anyone have any information about a Kurz-Kasch Signature II made in Dayton, Oh? It seems to be a combination Signature Analyzer, Logic Probe and Logic Pulser. I'm guessing that it was made in the late 1970s or early 80s. Joe From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Sep 18 17:00:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "Re: MACRO-11 help" (Sep 18, 9:36) References: Message-ID: <10209182127.ZM9111@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 18, 9:36, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > My example is a bit contrived; that's not really how I'd do it. Instead, > > I'd write a subroutine that wrote out a whole string, the string being > > stored immediately after the JSR, and returning to the word after the > > string. But that's another story. > > FYI, I was trying to use that as an example to try and learn MACRO-11 (fun > stuff, eh?). I've made myself a subroutine version of the code also, I'm > not yet trying for reusable or well-written code, just something I can > quickly enter into ODT and see if what I did worked. I didn't mean to denigrate your code :-) I guessed you might just be learing about MACRO-11 and the PDP-11 instruction set. I learned by writing short toggle-in programs, mostly hand-assembled, mostly to test hardware, and some of them are much more embarrassing than your effort :-) Yes, it is fun, and I offered the examples purely in the spirit of contrasting two types of addressing modes, whose syntax isn't always immediately obvious to a beginner. Now you can write subroutines, have you tried a little fun with co-routines? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dan at ekoan.com Wed Sep 18 17:03:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Any interest in a Data General Nova 3? In-Reply-To: <2A5A3FEECF38BC41B83AEDAF6AB568DC03D7DF@server.bcm.local> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020918180310.044b8b30@enigma> Hello, I recently came across a Data General Nova 3/12 that was originally a controller for some type of medical equipment. The back plate is stamped with option 4077. It is connected to a model 6030 dual diskette drive and a model 6012 terminal. I have no idea whether it works. It does not come with any manuals, documentation or software. I'd appreciate estimates of its value and rarity to figure out whether it's worth the asking price and the rescue effort. Thanks! Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Wed Sep 18 17:23:00 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Fwd: 68 Micro Journal Message-ID: <1fipoqu.y2xewgte3g4M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Here is a message that came over the Flex Users Group mailing list recently. Though you all might be interested. Cross posted with permission. ------- Begin Forwarded Message ------- Subject: 68 Micro Journal From: Mickey Ferguson To: Multiple recipients of fufulist Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 10:38:25 -0700 (PDT) For a couple of old retired guys, Ron Anderson & I have been busy! :) Back in the spring I made a trip up to Chattanooga & spent the better part of a day with Larry Williams. We discussed everything under the sun, but mostly 68 Micro. I told him that Ron & I were planning on scanning 68 Micro and putting it on CD-R for our own use & maybe sell a few sets to recover our costs [tho not our time. You can't imagine the hundreds of hours we have invested!] Larry & Tom are all for the idea but technically cannot give permission for several reasons, mostly because Don left 68MJ equally to all 5 of his children. And like any family of that size, they can't agree on what day of the week it is! :) Larry has discussed this with his attorney and is of the opinion it is covered by the "fair use" clause of the copyright law. His only stipulation was that he get a copy of the original scans, plus a copy of the distribution disks for himself and each of his siblings. [Believe it or not, but that is 105 CD's!] At any rate, we've finished! Each page of the magazine is a 1024 pixel width JPG file that is easier to read than the pages we started with! I did the scanning and Ron did the adjusting. He did a masterful job! He thinks I had the hard job, but I think he did! You wouldn't believe the differance in the before & after images! Ron has written a viewer program especially for viewing 68MJ files. It runs under Win9x or ME [I'm not sure about XP.] If you are running Linux [or Windoze for that matter] Compupic available from photodex.com also does an excellent job. Ron's viewer program is included on the CD's. This is a 5 CD set and is the complete 68 Micro. Every page from the first issue thru the last all 8105 pages. If you want a copy, you can order it from either Ron or me. But I would suggest ordering from me unless you want to wait til October to order because Ron is about to depart on an extended vacation. We are asking $25 for the set including postage. If you are outside the U.S.A., better make that $30 if you want air mail instead of slow boat! If you want a set send a check, money order, or even cash [as Yogi Berra said "that's almost like money"] to: Mickey Ferguson P.O. Box 520 Wausau FL 32463-0520 or Ron Anderson 1107 Citation Circle Hendersonville NC 28739 NOTE: U.S. Funds only, please. Mickey -------- End Forwarded Message -------- -- -------------------------------------------------------- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 18 18:29:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020918164055.3d1766fa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > >>>given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval > >>>female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a > > > > It looks like I may have been looking at the wrong thing. I thought > >he was looking for the older type of HP instrument cord. I don't > >know of anything that has oval prongs. I thought he meant oval > >housing. > > That's what I thought too until I read it closer. The "old" version of "modern" power cords, before the current "IEC" cords, had a oval plastic outer shell, and had either two or three ROUND pins. But sometimes the sockets (holes) in the end of the cord were oval in order to get a better grip on the round pins. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Sep 18 18:38:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help In-Reply-To: <10209182127.ZM9111@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: I want to thank everyone for their help with my MACRO-11 problems, you've all been...well, very helpful. -- Pat From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Sep 18 18:47:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! Message-ID: <200209182347.QAA06464@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > >> >>>given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval >> >>>female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a >> > >> > It looks like I may have been looking at the wrong thing. I thought >> >he was looking for the older type of HP instrument cord. I don't >> >know of anything that has oval prongs. I thought he meant oval >> >housing. >> >> That's what I thought too until I read it closer. > >The "old" version of "modern" power cords, before the current "IEC" cords, >had a oval plastic outer shell, and had either two or three ROUND >pins. But sometimes the sockets (holes) in the end of the cord were oval >in order to get a better grip on the round pins. > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > Hi So it might be that my suggested cords was right. Dwight From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Sep 18 19:08:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: NCR Tower help : recovering root password In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Now for the problem: I have no idea what any of the passwords are on the > machine. Searching comp.os.unisys and comp.os.ncr bring no useful > results. The only non-pasworded account on the machine (that I can find so > far) seems to be 'startup'. Any ideas on how to 'break in' without an OS > install floppy/tape? I've just had an idea... would it be possible to hook the drive up using a PC/XT drive controller in one of my computers running Linux and mount the filesystem on there? I know that there's problems with using ST-506 style harddisks on a controller other than what they've been formatted on, but I'm hoping that it could work. I'm not planning on trying to modify the filesystem, I'd just like to grab the encrypted rood password off of the drive so I can try running it through a password cracker. Let me know if anyone knows if this is possible. I'm guessing, worst case, the drive are only 41MB, so I could just search through the drive sector-by-sector until I found something that looked like the password file. -- Pat From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Sep 18 19:16:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help In-Reply-To: <10209180905.ZM8795@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>; from pete@dunnington.u-net.com on Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 08:05:27AM +0000 References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020916174019.B2524@eskimo.eskimo.com> <10209180905.ZM8795@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020918171625.A7367@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 08:05:27AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Sep 16, 17:40, Derek Peschel wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 12:24:02AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > I'm not sure I would have defined "relocatable" that way. (Even though > the > > program never sets . it isn't marked as relocatable, and there aren't any > > external modules that can be relocated.) But it's still a useful > definition > > if it catches errors. > > Pete, I replied to your other post in this thread. I'm just trying to > > understand what "the right thing to do" is here. > > Well, I'd say the "right thing to do" is to use absolute addressing modes. > What modes 6/7 do is generate references which are relative to the Sorry, I meant "the right thing for MACRO to do". Jerome and you didn't seem to like the output format as it currently stands. How would you change it? Jerome apparently wants to add some kind of warning lines. Would you distinguish between ordinary relocation and PIC? I'm really asking what the situations are (what the loader is capable of, how you would define "relocatable" on the -11, tec.) as well as what algorithms make sense to you. I've been playing with the -10 where there's only one word per instruction (though the left and right halves have their own loader flags) and the address column as well as the data column can have an apostrophe in the listing. I doubt PIC is a big priority on the -10 because it has always had base/limit registers and, later, paging. I tried the real MACRO (under RSX-11M) and it adds an apostrophe to the initial setting of . (which is what I'd expect, since . was never given a numeric value, only incremented from its default) but still no apostrophes after the addresses later in the listing. -- Derek From red at bears.org Wed Sep 18 19:32:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: DG AViiON NVRAM backup procedure available Message-ID: Howdy. For those of you I've been speaking with about Data General AViiON NVRAM backups, I've written a procedure and published it on the web. For those of you with AViiONs whom I have NOT yet spoken to, please check the page out and consider sending me backups. I'm in the middle of dissasembling the NVRAM contents so those with failed NVRAMs can restore their systems, and I'm in need of additional data points to complete my research. http://www.bears.org/~red/museum/aviion-nvram.html Thanks for your support. ok r. From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Sep 18 20:00:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Any interest in a Data General Nova 3? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020918180310.044b8b30@enigma> Message-ID: <016b01c25f77$ff9a6290$57000240@oemcomputer> Were is the unit located? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Veeneman" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 5:11 PM Subject: Any interest in a Data General Nova 3? > Hello, > > I recently came across a Data General Nova 3/12 that was > originally a controller for some type of medical equipment. The > back plate is stamped with option 4077. It is connected to a > model 6030 dual diskette drive and a model 6012 terminal. I > have no idea whether it works. It does not come with any > manuals, documentation or software. > > I'd appreciate estimates of its value and rarity to figure out > whether it's worth the asking price and the rescue effort. > > Thanks! > > > Cheers, > > Dan > http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 18 20:22:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! In-Reply-To: <011d01c25f57$e6f67460$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Sep 18, 2 05:11:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 454 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020918/563e12a7/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 18 20:27:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Fwd: 68 Micro Journal In-Reply-To: <1fipoqu.y2xewgte3g4M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <20020919012728.94981.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- tim lindner wrote: > Here is a message that came over the Flex Users Group mailing list > recently. > Though you all might be interested. > > Cross posted with permission. > > ------- Begin Forwarded Message ------- > > Subject: 68 Micro Journal > ...This is a 5 CD set and is the complete 68 Micro. Every page from the > first issue thru the last all 8105 pages. I've heard of "68 Micro". I presume that it primarily covers the 6800 through the 6809, but I welcome corrections. I am curious if someone on the list who is familiar with the publication can sum up in a paragraph the sorts of articles one would find. My interests lie in a parallel channel, with the 65xx processors, and I'm wondering if I would find anything interesting in "68 Micro". Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dan at ekoan.com Wed Sep 18 20:30:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Any interest in a Data General Nova 3? In-Reply-To: <016b01c25f77$ff9a6290$57000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <77D9AD6C-CB6F-11D6-AC4F-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> Washington, D.C. area. On Wednesday, September 18, 2002, at 09:00 PM, Keys wrote: > Were is the unit located? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Veeneman" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 5:11 PM > Subject: Any interest in a Data General Nova 3? > > >> Hello, >> >> I recently came across a Data General Nova 3/12 that was >> originally a controller for some type of medical equipment. The >> back plate is stamped with option 4077. It is connected to a >> model 6030 dual diskette drive and a model 6012 terminal. I >> have no idea whether it works. It does not come with any >> manuals, documentation or software. >> >> I'd appreciate estimates of its value and rarity to figure out >> whether it's worth the asking price and the rescue effort. >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Dan >> http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html >> >> > From donm at cts.com Wed Sep 18 23:20:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! In-Reply-To: <200209181707.KAA06097@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: MTPro@aol.com > > >One more time. Anyone?! Would anyone please have an extra power plug they > could sell me for my generic S-100 computer? Somehow mine must have gotten > given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval > female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a > picture to anyone who needs to verify. I haven't had it up and running for a > couple of years now, and I would like to. Thank you, David > > > > Hi > I have an Allied catalog that is a couple of years > old. They call these SVT cords. They have several > listed: > > manuf Manuf# Allied# Length Price > Alpha 543 663-7082 7'6" 4.62 > Belden 17952 612-3569 8' 5.38 > Belden 17280 612-3677 7'6" 4.84 > > Hope this helps > Dwight Good information, Dwight, but my inclination would be to replace that two-prong receptacle with a current two-prong and ground unit as is commonly used on most all equipment now. Safer! - don From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Sep 19 02:42:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help In-Reply-To: Derek Peschel "Re: MACRO-11 help" (Sep 18, 17:16) References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020916174019.B2524@eskimo.eskimo.com> <10209180905.ZM8795@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020918171625.A7367@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <10209190813.ZM9401@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 18, 17:16, Derek Peschel wrote: > On Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 08:05:27AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Well, I'd say the "right thing to do" is to use absolute addressing modes. > > What modes 6/7 do is generate references which are relative to the > > Sorry, I meant "the right thing for MACRO to do". Jerome and you didn't > seem to like the output format as it currently stands. How would you > change it? Jerome apparently wants to add some kind of warning lines. > Would you distinguish between ordinary relocation and PIC? > > I'm really asking what the situations are (what the loader is capable of, > how you would define "relocatable" on the -11, tec.) as well as what > algorithms make sense to you. I'm not sure what LINK does, and what input it needs. It's a long time since I used MACRO-11, but I'd have expected it to generate the "correct" values, for a start. What Pat's output showed was: 7 001000 012767 000110 177566' MOV #110,XBUF but if you were entering that in ODT, what you'd want would be 7 001000 012767 000110 176552' MOV #110,XBUF In other words, you'd want MACRO to do the calculation for you, and have LINK adjust that if the eventual loading address was other than 001000. If I were redesigning MACRO from scratch, I'd have it mark the PC-relative addresses more obviously, perhaps something like this: 7 001000 012767 000110 [176552] MOV #110,XBUF but then it would be more reasonable to put the target address, 177566, in the listing, rather than the offset, 176552. Maybe it could do both, but it gets a bit clumsy: 7 001000 012767 000110 [177566] (+176552) MOV #110,XBUF This is just for the listing, obviously; what it puts in the .OBJ file would not change. However, I imagine any such changes would bring howls of protest from generations of MACRO programmers :-) > I tried the real MACRO (under RSX-11M) and it adds an apostrophe to the > initial setting of . (which is what I'd expect, since . was never given > a numeric value, only incremented from its default) but still no apostrophes > after the addresses later in the listing. I don't have any listing readily to hand. Were the addresses shown as the target addresses, or the offsets required to reach those tagets? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Sep 19 05:58:00 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: PDP8 Chassis Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20020919064547.02458a00@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> PDP8 Chassis PDP 8 DEC pdp11 Digital Item # 2055395983 Sep-25-02 12:13:58 PDT http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2055395983 From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Sep 19 10:05:01 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Any interest in a Data General Nova 3? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020918180310.044b8b30@enigma> Message-ID: <006d01c25fed$ed774620$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> I would definitely be interested in a Nova 3! Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Veeneman" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 5:11 PM Subject: Any interest in a Data General Nova 3? > Hello, > > I recently came across a Data General Nova 3/12 that was > originally a controller for some type of medical equipment. The > back plate is stamped with option 4077. It is connected to a > model 6030 dual diskette drive and a model 6012 terminal. I > have no idea whether it works. It does not come with any > manuals, documentation or software. > > I'd appreciate estimates of its value and rarity to figure out > whether it's worth the asking price and the rescue effort. > > Thanks! > > > Cheers, > > Dan > http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Sep 19 12:02:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020916174019.B2524@eskimo.eskimo.com> <10209180905.ZM8795@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020918171625.A7367@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <200209191703.NAA9677726@shell.TheWorld.com> >I'm not sure what LINK does, and what input it needs. It's a long time >since I used MACRO-11, but I'd have expected it to generate the "correct" >values, for a start. What Pat's output showed was: > > 7 001000 012767 000110 177566' MOV #110,XBUF What it shows is the address which is supposed to be referenced. The flag lets you know that relocation will be applied at link time. If it were to use the offset information in the listing, one would have to do the calculation to see where it was actually addressing (unless the listing were to add that info, but then it would be too busy a listing, and comments would fall off the edge of the paper since there wouldn't be room). Not to mention the fact that the offset to an absolute location would be different if the code were linked at a different location. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Sep 19 12:17:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Bring up CPM-8000 Message-ID: <200209191717.KAA06919@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Since there was a bunch of CPM-8000 stuff showing up lately, I've been trying to get it to work on my Olivetti M20 ( what the release code is to run on ). The code I got was originally from 8 inch disk. I have both the 8 inch disk images and the files recovered from the disk. The 8 inch disk were not boot disk but contained enough information to build a boot disk. As near as I can tell, the code was to run on a 5-1/4 inch disk and not the 8 inch. That is what I have been working on but I've reached a stumbling block. It seems to be CPM related so people that know CPM should be the most help ( I mean, know what directory structures should look like and how the disk blocks are referenced, not just, I can use PIP or ED ). I've been building a boot image from the files and what I understand of how CPM should look. I've got it to the point that it runs the low level bootstrap code but fails to do the final load of CPM.SYS. I know it is running the bootstrap because it prints the error message that it has an error in opening or reading CPM.SYS. This is only in the bootstrap code. I have the files on my PC and I've written some code to build the image. I then copy the image to a disk for my M20 and try to boot it. So far it doesn't seem to get the CPM.SYS file correctly. I can't tell if it is an issue with the directory I built, the file location or something about the file itself. I hope one of you can help me by looking at my image file and confirming that I am building the directory and file correctly, for a CPM type file. Thanks Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Sep 19 12:36:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Bring up CPM-8000, I need a little CPM type help Message-ID: <200209191737.KAA06925@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I've been working on bringing up a CPM-8000 on my Olivetti M20. I've made quite a bit of progress but I seem to have hit a stumbling block. The code that was available on the net was found on 8 inch disk. The files themselves seem to be the correct code to run on 5-1/4 inch disk. I've been building a image disk on my PC and trying them out on the M20. I've got to the point now ( after some other failed attempts ) that it is running the bootstrap code. This is the last part before it reads CPM.SYS and transfers execution to it. The bootstrap code expects there to be a file called CPM.SYS in the normal CPM file space and looks in the CPM directory for it. Right now, I get an error message that says it has an error opening or reading CPM.SYS ( this is how I know the bootstrap is running ). Looking at the source code for this part, it doesn't make the distinction between an error in reading the directory or an error in reading/finding the file. I suspect that I am either building the directory wrong or I got something wrong with the file. I'm not sure which it is. I feel I am really close to getting it to work but there is some little thing I missed. I what hoping is that someone could look at my image file and see something obviously wrong or could send me an image of a normal 5-1/4 CPM disk ( hopefully with the same parameters ). You don't have to know any Z8000. You do have to know the inners of CPM. Thanks Dwight From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Thu Sep 19 12:46:01 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: ADM-3A/HP 6144 Terminal Updates References: <20020918140526.10279.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D8A0D69.62FCB94B@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Loboyko Steve wrote: > > ADM-3A > > I read the upper and lower case chips, programmed a lower case > 2716, and made a small adapter from to make the 2716 "look" like > a 2513 in the socket, installed the chips/adapter, flipped a few > switches, and voila! Nice work Steve, and thanks for the PROM files. A very trivial question: can you see any particular reason why the glyphs in the lowercase ROM run backwards (apart from "address lines 3 - 8 are inverted"!) Does this make anything simpler? I've just found the ADM-3 Maintenance Manual, and it appears to have the same configuration, but it just says "... the lower case ROM is a custom masked part. The one unusual thing about this is that all of the address lines into the lower case character generator are inverted." No explanation! And it can't be all of the lines on the ADM-3a, because the 8 scan lines run top to bottom, as with the upppercase ROM. - Paul From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Sep 19 13:21:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Free HP 5332A Preset Controller/Counter Message-ID: Not sure quite what it does -- I just pulled it out of a dumpster in the Loop that has a ton (literally) of old video production equipment in it. Don't know if it works, even. Has a nice 5 digit nixie display. Sticker on the back says it was last calibrated in April of 1976. Anyway, free for postage (about 10 pounds shipping weight, from Chicago). If more than one person wants it, I'll draw slips from a hat, tomorrow at noon (CST). Reply directly to me at robert_feldman@jdedwards.com. Bob From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Sep 19 13:34:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: OT: Enron liquidation auction In-Reply-To: <20020919170001.88392.82591.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: All, Saw on the CNN ticker that Enron will be holding an auction to liquidate excess equipment. Computers were listed as among the to-be-auctioned things. Any Houston members, you may want to look more into this - that's all the info I have. Has Enron even been in business 10 years? - Mark From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Sep 19 15:01:01 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: MACRO-11 help In-Reply-To: <10209190813.ZM9401@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>; from pete@dunnington.u-net.com on Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 07:13:10AM +0000 References: <3D866D8C.B3C225CE@compsys.to> <10209170124.ZM7880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020916174019.B2524@eskimo.eskimo.com> <10209180905.ZM8795@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020918171625.A7367@eskimo.eskimo.com> <10209190813.ZM9401@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020919130214.A18991@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 07:13:10AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 08:05:27AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > I tried the real MACRO (under RSX-11M) and it adds an apostrophe to the > > initial setting of . (which is what I'd expect, since . was never given > > a numeric value, only incremented from its default) but still no > apostrophes > > after the addresses later in the listing. > > I don't have any listing readily to hand. Were the addresses shown as the > target addresses, or the offsets required to reach those tagets? Offsets The listing is almost the same as Patrick's. The column alignment is slightly different, HALT has no built-in definition and produces an error, and MACRO included page headers, the symbol table, and statistics. (I didn't copy any of that.) 1 000000' LC=. 2 001000' .=LC+1000 3 4 177564 XSR=177564 5 177566 XBUF=177566 6 7 001000 012767 000110 177566' MOV #110,XBUF 8 001006 105767 177564' L1: TSTB XSR 9 001012 100375 BPL L1 10 001014 012767 000064 177566' MOV #64,XBUF 11 001022 105767 177564' L2: TSTB XSR 12 001026 100375 BPL L2 13 001030 012767 000130 177566' MOV #130,XBUF 14 001036 105767 177564' L3: TSTB XSR 15 001042 100375 BPL L3 16 001044 012767 000060 177566' MOV #60,XBUF 17 001052 105767 177564' L4: TSTB XSR 18 001056 100375 BPL L4 19 001060 012767 000122 177566' MOV #122,XBUF 20 001066 105767 177564' L5: TSTB XSR 21 001072 100375 BPL L5 22 001074 000005 RESET 23 001076 000000 HALT E 0 -- Derek From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 19 15:35:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Humming Variac? Message-ID: Is it normal for a Variac to hum when it's plugged in? If not, any ideas why one would do so? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cpg at aladdin.de Thu Sep 19 15:51:00 2002 From: cpg at aladdin.de (Christian Groessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Bring up CPM-8000, I need a little CPM type help Message-ID: <87lm5xpuuc.fsf@power.cnet.aladdin.de> Hi, On 09/19/2002 10:37:01 AM MST "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > I suspect that I am either building the directory >wrong or I got something wrong with the file. I'm >not sure which it is. I feel I am really close to getting >it to work but there is some little thing I missed. > I what hoping is that someone could look at my image file >and see something obviously wrong or could send me >an image of a normal 5-1/4 CPM disk ( hopefully with the >same parameters ). You don't have to know any Z8000. >You do have to know the inners of CPM. I'm no CPM guy, but I know there are many different floppy formats there. I think it's important to mention that the M20 has 256 byte sectors, 16 sectors/track and 35 tracks. I also found a tool to access CPM disk images, it's at http://www.moria.de/~michael/cpmtools/ Maybe that helps... regards, chris From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Sep 19 15:52:01 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Humming Variac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20020919165036.0236c3f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > If not, any ideas why one would do so? Vibrations induced by the changing magnetic fields created as a result of the cyclic nature of alternating current. At 05:36 AM 9/19/02 -0700, you wrote: >Is it normal for a Variac to hum when it's plugged in? > >If not, any ideas why one would do so? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 19 15:58:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Humming Variac? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Sep 19, 2 05:36:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 826 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020919/98eaf4aa/attachment.ksh From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Sep 19 17:10:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Kurz-Kasch Signature II References: <3.0.6.16.20020918165907.218fcb06@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002601c26029$326b1780$0100000a@deepsp9> Joe wrote: > Does anyone have any information about a Kurz-Kasch Signature II > made in Dayton, Oh? It seems to be a combination Signature Analyzer, > Logic Probe and Logic Pulser. I'm guessing that it was made in the > late 1970s or early 80s. I remember seeing a manual for this thing in the "Wiretap" arcade archive on www.spies.com/arcade -- now moved to somewhere on www.stormaster.com IIRC. A search on Google should reveal the URL. IIRC the file was under "Test Equipment Manuals" and the link was titled "Signature analysis notes". Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From mhscc at canada.com Thu Sep 19 18:10:01 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (MHStein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! Message-ID: <000d01c26031$bf2f3040$fbe8059a@msed03> I hope by now someone has fixed you up, but if not, send me the picture and the pin spacing, and I'll see what I can find. mike ----------------Original Message-------------- Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:28:53 -0400 From: MTPro@aol.com Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! One more time. Anyone?! Would anyone please have an extra power plug they could sell me for my generic S-100 computer? Thank you, David ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Sep 19 18:30:00 2002 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: OT: Enron liquidation auction In-Reply-To: References: <20020919170001.88392.82591.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920002323.023d1720@slave> At 19:30 19/09/2002, you wrote: >All, > Saw on the CNN ticker that Enron will be holding an auction to >liquidate excess equipment. I say don't bother: The UK auction was held a couple of months ago, and (due to media interest) stuff was going for incredibly inflated prices - greater than retail in some cases I saw. Besides, there almost certainly won't be any "classic" stuff in there; it'll all be PCs. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 19 18:54:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Humming Variac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > It depends on how loudly! It's quiet. But I left it plugged in and when I was going to bed at night and the house was quiet it was noticeable enough that I went to investigate and determined that it was the Variac, so I unplugged it. I noticed also that the enclosure was warm, which bothered me. > All Variacs -- in fact just about every mains-frequency transformer -- > will hum a little. The hum will get louder when you increase the load. A > Variac with no load should hum pretty quietly, but you may still hear it. At the time I noticed it there was no load on it. I'd never heard it hum before (or at least never noticed). I plugged it in today just to see if it hummed off the bat and it does. > On variacs, the moving contact brush will effectively short-circuit a > couple of turns. The variac is designed to handle this, but if you're not > using the original brush then you might have problems. Have you replaced > the brush? Nope. Where would I get a replacement brush if it needs it? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From MTPro at aol.com Thu Sep 19 20:08:01 2002 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: S-100 Plug Message-ID: <194.d8c506a.2abbcf05@aol.com> In a message dated 9/19/02 1:04:12 PM, cctalk-request@classiccmp.org writes: << I'm trying to figure out what David is looking for but I don't remember ever seeing a power cord with oval prongs. >> Sorry, I'm a dolt everyone. I was wrong about the plug, it has three prongs. And what I meant to describe is that the outline of the female plug on the back of the computer is oval. Anyway, take a look see here: http://members.aol.com/mtpro/ac.jpg Thank you, David From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Sep 19 20:21:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:29 2005 Subject: Humming Variac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Is it normal for a Variac to hum when it's plugged in? > That all depends on what it's humming. *gd&r* g. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Sep 19 21:04:36 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Problems Booting RSX-11M V4.4 on a PDP-11/24 from an RA80 Disk Drive References: <002101c25bab$2d2722f0$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <3D8A8215.86CAA386@Vishay.com> Christopher, don't you need to explicitly specify decimal notation by including a dot after the file size? I just dug out the papers, and in my SYSGEN, it was PIP DU0:RSX11M.SYS/NV/CO/BL:498.=RSX11M.TSK (OK, I have less memory than you, but this was a PDP-11/34A, and it doesn't take any more, right?) So for your memory size, I think you should say PIP DU0:RSX11M.SYS/NV/CO/BL:2050.=RSX11M.TSK Otherwise, you may only get a system image of (octal) 2050=1064. (decimal) blocks, and when you run VMR, you probably overwrite something you'd better leave intact for your next boot. Alternatively, you may during boot sniff something from behind the image which isn't healthy for your executive. Good luck! Andreas Christopher McNabb schrieb: > > I've finally got what I think is a good sysgen for my PDP-11, but I'm having > a hard time getting it to boot from an RA80. Here is the machine config: > > PDP-11/24 > Unibus Map > Memory Map > Floating Point Unit > Extended Instruction Set > DZ11 Async board > 512 KW (1024 KB) Ram > Two RL02 Disk Drives > One RA80 Disk Drive with MSCP controller > > Here is the sequence of commands I am using to transfer the system from the > RL02 (where it was sysgened) to the RA80: > > >MOU DU0:/FOR > > >ACS DL0:/BLKS=0 > > >INS $BRU > > >INS $VMR > > >INS $PIP > > >DMO DL0:/DEV > > >MOU DL0:/FOR > > >BRU DL0: DU0: > > (BRU Initializes DU0) > > >DMO DU0: > > >DMO DL0:/DEV > > >MOU DL0:RSXM46 > > >MOU DU0:RSXM46 > > >SET /UIC=[1,54] > > >PIP DU0:RSX11M.SYS/NV/CO/BL:2050=RSX11M.TSK > > >ASN DU0: SY: > > >ASN DU0: LB: > > >VMR @SYSVMR > > >BOO DU0:RSX11M.SYS > > XDT> G > > RSX11M V4.4 BL 46 > > > TIM XX:XX XX-XXX-XX > > Note: A 'DEV' command at this point shows all the proper > devices and redirects. > > > SAV /WB /MOU="DU0:RSXM46" > > The RA80 Ready light flickers for a few seconds, then the channel select > light will go off and back on twice. Then the system hangs. If I boot from > the RL02 at this point, and then try to boot from the RA80, the system will > hang again. Booting from the ODT prompt (173204g) yields the same result. > The system hangs wether or not I specify the /MOU option to the 'SAV' > command. If I try the boot right after the BRU command, I get the expected > "Device does not contain a hardware boot block' message, so I know the MSCP > controller is working. I don't know why I can boot the first time with the > 'BOO' command, but not subsequently. > > Anyone out there have any clues? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 19 21:09:02 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: S-100 Plug In-Reply-To: <194.d8c506a.2abbcf05@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020919221030.334f2f64@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:08 PM 9/19/02 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 9/19/02 1:04:12 PM, cctalk-request@classiccmp.org writes: > ><< I'm trying to figure out what David is looking for but I don't remember >ever seeing a power cord with oval prongs. >> > >Sorry, I'm a dolt everyone. I was wrong about the plug, it has three prongs. >And what I meant to describe is that the outline of the female plug on the >back of the computer is oval. Anyway, take a look see here: > >http://members.aol.com/mtpro/ac.jpg I looked at the picture. It's what I expected, an old style oval Hewlett Packard power plug. That bit about the "oval pins" sure had me going! Joe > >Thank you, David > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 19 21:13:29 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Humming Variac? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020919221140.334f7a24@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:26 PM 9/19/02 -0700, Gene wrote: >> >> Is it normal for a Variac to hum when it's plugged in? >> >That all depends on what it's humming. *gd&r* Ten thousand comedians out of work and we get Gene! :-/ Joe From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Sep 19 21:47:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: OT: Update on console radio/record recorder (was: Re: OT: dumpster dive ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chris wrote: > > Yup, made with a diamond stylus. The machine that made them (as well > > as a radio) is still in the home too. The friend that passed away > > built it into the wall with a custom cabinet. The family won't remove > > it because it would leave a hole in a paneled wall, and they don't > > want to replace the paneling. > > I would offer to repanel that wall for them (even the entire room to > make sure it matched) if it meant laying my hands on one of those. > > Is the family selling the house? If so, stay in close contact, and even > talk to the realitor and see if you can arrange something with the buyer > to take custody of the machine. Well, lots has happened this week... Last week, the house "sold", and (sadly) it sold as a teardown... Of course, this meant I was able to get permission to pull that console radio and record recorder. I took some photos of it before I pulled it, and I'll see about putting them up on the web soon. The really sad part about the house going as a teardown, is that someone in my family was also trying to buy the property. Their showing of the house got canceled at the last minute because the actual owners (not located here in Houston) figured they already had enough offers on the property (they listed it too low). Turns out the person in my family who wanted it might have actually been willing to pay much more than the "investor" (read: vulture) who ended up buying it. Gosh this ordeal sure has been tiring..... -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Sep 19 21:58:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! In-Reply-To: <200209181939.MAA06267@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > An interesting side note about the Belden cords that I found in a web > search: > > " The Eberline Instruments using the non-standard AC cord are listed on > page two of this bulletin. Belden power cord model #17280 has standard > polarity per UL 817 and CSA 895B and should NOT be used on the Eberline > instruments listed. Belden model #17952 has polarity, neutral and lines > reversed and is the only cord to be used on the Eberline Instruments > listed. The non-standard cords come from the manufacturer with a paper > label stating that they have reversed polarity but the labels are > susceptible to damage and are easily lost. " I have one of those non-standard cords in a box of parts for my JC80 system. It appears Johnson Controls used those cords for that system. I'd like to find a couple more of those cords (I'm short one, and could use a spare) if anyone comes across any. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Sep 19 22:02:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! In-Reply-To: <000d01c26031$bf2f3040$fbe8059a@msed03> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, MHStein wrote: > I hope by now someone has fixed you up, but if not, send me the picture > and the pin spacing, and I'll see what I can find. I can take a photo of the reversed cord I have if needed. It uses the exact same connector. -Toth From sloboyko at yahoo.com Thu Sep 19 23:09:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: ADM-3A/HP 6144 Terminal Updates In-Reply-To: <3D8A0D69.62FCB94B@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: <20020920041027.97933.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> Hmmm...I never noticed that... No, I don't see any reason to have done this, except possibly to deliberately make it incompatible with the "standard" lower case 2513 (I'm fairly certain that there was one, Jameco used to sell it), so that they could get a premium price for their part. Imagine the suprise of someone plugging one of these chips in in 1978 or so, to see the characters jumbled up!Because I made a copy of it without analyzing it, no problem. No brains, no headaches. Of course, one could make it compatible with a little board the size of the one I made and flip the address lines around, or cut up and jumper the PCB, but who would want to start cutting up their $1000 terminal for a relatively small savings? And remember, of course, UVEPROMS were very expensive them and very few people had programmers at their disposal. So, that's the best I can come up with. > one unusual thing > about this is that all of the address lines into the > lower case > character generator are inverted." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From fernande at internet1.net Fri Sep 20 00:08:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: OT: Enron liquidation auction References: Message-ID: <3D8AAD77.5060101@internet1.net> There even selling the big E that was in fron fo one of the buildings :-) Yes, they have been around more than 10 years, but not the Enron name. I can't remember what there heritage was. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Mark Tapley wrote: > All, > Saw on the CNN ticker that Enron will be holding an auction to > liquidate excess equipment. Computers were listed as among the > to-be-auctioned things. Any Houston members, you may want to look more into > this - that's all the info I have. > Has Enron even been in business 10 years? > - Mark From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Sep 20 00:41:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: OT: Update on console radio/record recorder (was: Re: OT: dumpster dive ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As promised, heres a link to some photos of the console radio and record recorder: http://techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/console-radio/ I also put up a couple photos of how the wire recorder that I mentioned in an earlier email looked before I started work on it: http://techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/wire-recorder/ -Toth From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Sep 20 00:59:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: FREE VAX 6000-460 in Richmond, VA References: <1031799513.3224.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> <004f01c25a1f$cc896e80$fe41cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <002c01c2606a$dc2f6a50$073bcd18@D73KSM11> Last call. This is a free VAX 6000-460 rack located at a government facility in Richmond, VA, strapped to a pallet. It needs to be picked up in the next few weeks, otherwise it will be consigned to oblivion. If you can take it, reply and I will provide you with the necessary information. Please, save this VAX! -W From fernande at internet1.net Fri Sep 20 01:51:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: OT: Update on console radio/record recorder (was: Re: OT: dumpster dive ...) References: Message-ID: <3D8AC584.2020605@internet1.net> Wow, that's more than just a radio!! The front is beautiful, but it looks like the turntable needs a lot of work. How is the cabinet structuraly? Is it solid wood, or a veneer? I had an old console radio at one time, but it was too far gone, for me to be able to restore it. I didn't have the ambition to complete the job, so I didn't start it. I ended up selling it in a garage sale. The most use I got out of it was as a table for my cd player and reciever. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Tothwolf wrote: > As promised, heres a link to some photos of the console radio and record > recorder: http://techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/console-radio/ > > I also put up a couple photos of how the wire recorder that I mentioned in > an earlier email looked before I started work on it: > http://techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/wire-recorder/ > > -Toth > > > From sipke at wxs.nl Fri Sep 20 03:47:00 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Humming Variac? References: Message-ID: <01d601c26082$6b174fa0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> A Variac is a kinda transformer. Transformers often hum. Especialally when the iron laminates in the core start to come loose. So it's a bit of an old age phenomenon. Even small HF ferite-based transformers can squeek (arghhh yuck) if the frequency (product) comes into the hearing range.......... Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 2:36 PM Subject: Humming Variac? > > Is it normal for a Variac to hum when it's plugged in? > > If not, any ideas why one would do so? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From dmabry at mich.com Fri Sep 20 05:19:01 2002 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: S-100 Plug References: <194.d8c506a.2abbcf05@aol.com> Message-ID: <3D8AF5AC.573B5DAA@mich.com> I only watched this thread for a bit, but this is what I thought it might be when you first described it. Now, refresh my memory a bit. Do you still need a power cord for this? I might be able to find one if you do. MTPro@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/19/02 1:04:12 PM, cctalk-request@classiccmp.org writes: > > << I'm trying to figure out what David is looking for but I don't remember > ever seeing a power cord with oval prongs. >> > > Sorry, I'm a dolt everyone. I was wrong about the plug, it has three prongs. > And what I meant to describe is that the outline of the female plug on the > back of the computer is oval. Anyway, take a look see here: > > http://members.aol.com/mtpro/ac.jpg > > Thank you, David -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Sep 20 06:26:00 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: OT: Update on console radio/record recorder (Wire recorder info) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920072237.00b201a8@mail.wincom.net> At 12:53 AM 20/09/2002 -0500, you wrote: >As promised, heres a link to some photos of the console radio and record >recorder: http://techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/console-radio/ > >I also put up a couple photos of how the wire recorder that I mentioned in >an earlier email looked before I started work on it: >http://techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/wire-recorder/ > >-Toth Service information on the Webster wire recorder was available in Sam's 1947 Record Changer Manual. If you can't find one I will scan desired information and email it to you. This also contained information on the General Industries disk recorder, if that was the unit in the console. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Sep 20 08:01:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: OT: Enron liquidation auction Message-ID: I've read that there are about 3000 PC's, most packed into pallets of 36 units each. -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Vickers [mailto:avickers@solutionengineers.com] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 6:24 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: Enron liquidation auction At 19:30 19/09/2002, you wrote: >All, > Saw on the CNN ticker that Enron will be holding an auction to >liquidate excess equipment. I say don't bother: The UK auction was held a couple of months ago, and (due to media interest) stuff was going for incredibly inflated prices - greater than retail in some cases I saw. Besides, there almost certainly won't be any "classic" stuff in there; it'll all be PCs. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From allain at panix.com Fri Sep 20 08:25:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: "Re:" Power Plug: uVaxIII References: <3.0.6.16.20020919221030.334f2f64@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <006c01c260a9$24014e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I've been searching for that oval plug as well, I have 1 cord and three items that use it. But, While searching I found the cord for MicroVaxIII's that has the high current cut-out in it. http://www.dealtime.com searching for "power cord" Yielded http://www.techdepot.com/product.asp?productid=27873&affid=673 http://www.computers4sure.com/product.asp?productid=27873&affid=673 John A. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Sep 20 09:12:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Humming Variac? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020919221140.334f7a24@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > At 06:26 PM 9/19/02 -0700, Gene wrote: > >> > >> Is it normal for a Variac to hum when it's plugged in? > >> > >That all depends on what it's humming. *gd&r* > > Ten thousand comedians out of work and we get Gene! :-/ > Sorry Joe, if you were expecting a professional, you'll just have to wait. :) g. From allain at panix.com Fri Sep 20 09:27:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: free vintage keyboard References: <3.0.6.16.20020919221030.334f2f64@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <006c01c260a9$24014e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <026f01c260b1$cb4d16a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Keyboard Twintest XRF-AUX AK202-1086 Twin City International, Inc. (TCI) This looks to be a 1970's era keyboard, back in the days of molded keycaps, discrete switches, hand assembly, metal case, etc. Probably not RS232 despite the connector: DB25M on the keyboard and D?15M at the end of the included cable. free for ship John A. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Fri Sep 20 09:49:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Macintosh and Mcintosh In-Reply-To: <006c01c260a9$24014e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3.0.6.16.20020919221030.334f2f64@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020920104736.0125c94c@pop1.epm.net.co> Who would have known it; I unearthed a box that I had that contains a product by Sun Microsystems , ca. 1987: "TOPS: All software required to transform a Macintosh into a TOPS network station". Essentially it seems like Sun wrote an ethertalk driver and an appleshare daemon for Sun workstations as well as an appletalk solution (interface, driver, file sharing and laserprep clients) for PC compatibles and some extra software for the mac as well. Some of the blurb in the box is reproduced at the end of the message. Anyway, I have three comments and a question: 1) I did not know that Sun made unix/pc/mac compatible solutions that early; my experience with such products was limited to Sun's PC-NFS, which I liked a lot at the time. 2) Why the name TOPS? Isn't that the name of an OS used in some PDP's, such as the legendary SIMTEL-20? 3) Inside the box, I found exactly the kind of appletalk connector that I ended up building from a Farallon phonenet connector a few days ago. And the question: Tne macintosh diskettes in the box carry the following legend in the trademark attribution section: "Macintosh is a trademark of McIntosh Laboratory, Inc., licensed to Apple Computer, Inc." So did McIntosh sue Apple over trademark infringement and win? Did Apple eventually buy the Macintosh trademark from McIntosh? I never knew about this; please clarify what happened. Regards, carlos. TOPS box blurb: Connect to other computers: TOPS opens up a whole new world of possibilities. You can share files not only with other Macintosh stations, but with IBM PCs & compatibles, Sun workstations and other computers connected to the TOPS network. Share network resources: With TOPS, each network station can share its resources with every other station. Files accessed from a remote station look and behave just as if they were stored locally--even if the files are stored on a different kind of computer than the one you're using. Print spooling: TOPS includes a desk accessory called TOPS Spool that handles all postscript print jobs in the background as you continue to work. TOPS Spool is Pagemaker compatible. Convert file formats: TOPS includes an utility called TOPS Translators that converts file formats between many popular Macintosh and DOS applications. Requirements: Mac 512, 512Ke, Plus, SE or II, System 5.3 and Finder 3.2 or higher. Fully compatible with all AFP applications. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From Mzthompson at aol.com Fri Sep 20 09:53:00 2002 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Sams Photofacts & Apple stuff Message-ID: <10d.186d98c5.2abc9047@aol.com> I received the following in an email: > Know of any collectors looking for Sams Photofact Folder Set schematics? > My father-in-law collected approximately 300 folder sets in used but > good condition dating from 1947 through 1990 (sets #23 through #1733) > (not complete). ....... After an email exchange, she wrote: > We're willing to let go of them for postage/packing materials. And she added: > While you're at it, I have some classic Macintosh stuff. I have a > working IIcx cpu with a hard drive of 100MB, and maybe 16M of RAM), an Apple > LaserWriter II, a quadra 950. I still have the original manuals for the > IIcx, when they packaged it in a really cool way. "Open this first, Open > this second," etc. Do you think there would be any interest in that? I think she would like to get a little something for the hardware, mostly for sentimental reasons. I suspect she would be pleased that the stuff finds a good home. Located in Bloomfield (near Newark), New Jersey. If interested please contact her direct: Sandra Gola gola@skylightgraphics.com From cb at mythtech.net Fri Sep 20 10:14:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Macintosh and Mcintosh Message-ID: >1) I did not know that Sun made unix/pc/mac compatible >solutions that early; my experience with such products was >limited to Sun's PC-NFS, which I liked a lot at the time. Yup, I have this software and hardward (TOPS Flashcard) >2) Why the name TOPS? Isn't that the name of an OS used in >some PDP's, such as the legendary SIMTEL-20? Because Sun didn't come up with the name. TOPS did. They were a standalone company at one point, and Sun bought them and kept the name. >3) Inside the box, I found exactly the kind of appletalk connector >that I ended up building from a Farallon phonenet connector >a few days ago. Yup. The DE9 version was available as it was used on the PCs, as well as most repeaters and some bridges. I have a few of that style (I didn't offer them to you because I need them for my repeater and PCs on my Appletalk network). >"Macintosh is a trademark of McIntosh Laboratory, Inc., licensed >to Apple Computer, Inc." > >So did McIntosh sue Apple over trademark infringement and win? >Did Apple eventually buy the Macintosh trademark from McIntosh? >I never knew about this; please clarify what happened. This I don't know about. I know some of the details with the Apple Records deal for the Apple name, but I didn't know anything about a deal with McIntosh labs (is that the audio company?) -chris From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 20 10:18:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: "Re:" Power Plug: uVaxIII In-Reply-To: <006c01c260a9$24014e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3.0.6.16.20020919221030.334f2f64@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020920111957.193f5864@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:25 AM 9/20/02 -0400, you wrote: >I've been searching for that oval plug as well, >I have 1 cord and three items that use it. > >But, > While searching I found the cord for MicroVaxIII's > that has the high current cut-out in it. A friend of mine is always looking for that type power cord. I've found a pile of them by checking UPSs in the scrap places. The big UPSs all seem to use that type plug. Joe > >http://www.dealtime.com > searching for "power cord" >Yielded > http://www.techdepot.com/product.asp?productid=27873&affid=673 > http://www.computers4sure.com/product.asp?productid=27873&affid=673 > >John A. > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 20 10:22:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 power requirements Message-ID: >the US modem is 220V split-phase. no three phase needed. That must be one hell of a big ass modem! ;p Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 20 10:30:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020920112941.4f970018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I was scrounging around last week and found a pair of HH 5 1/4" floppy drives that are marked "2.4" next to a disk symbol on the front. Just out of curiousity I picked them up and checked and sure enough they're 2.4Mb floppy drives! I've never heard of these before. Does anyone know what the disk format is or where these are used? The drives are Hitachi model FD532EIU. The label on them says that they're made for IBM. They're in some sort of a plastic sled. Joe From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Sep 20 11:55:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: OT: Update on console radio/record recorder (was: Re: OT: dumpster dive ...) In-Reply-To: <3D8AC584.2020605@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Wow, that's more than just a radio!! The front is beautiful, but it > looks like the turntable needs a lot of work. How is the cabinet > structuraly? Is it solid wood, or a veneer? I had an old console radio > at one time, but it was too far gone, for me to be able to restore it. > I didn't have the ambition to complete the job, so I didn't start it. > I ended up selling it in a garage sale. The most use I got out of it > was as a table for my cd player and reciever. The cabinet is made up of two major parts. The front part that you can see in those photos is solid, and I think it is oak. That part is about 5-6" deep and sticks out from the wall. The other part of the cabinet sets into the wall and is made of rough pine/fur/scrap wood. The rear part is in poor shape too, since it stuck out about 10" beyond the wall into a garage. The radio itself is a Truetone, though the model number escapes me for the moment. The record recorder is actually in fair shape, but is very, very dusty. Much of that dust appears to have crept in from the garage. When I started looking at removing the radio, I found that someone had removed the back of the cabinet while attempting to figure out how it was put in, and it was left off for awhile before I got to it. I also found the thing was live electrically when I pulled it. Talk about a fire hazard... The cord for the radio is brittle and bare in lots of places. I had to cut power to that section of the house twice; once to remove the radio and record recorder, and again when pulling the cabinet, since it has a built-in outlet. I'll eventually do a full restoration of the radio and record recorder, both electronically and mechanically. Something is strange about the wood front though, it has a waxy like feel to it right now, and it flakes off. I'm thinking that may just be 20-30 year old furniture wax that is deteriorating, but I don't know for sure yet. If there is interest, I'll post when I get time to take some photos of the radio chassis. -Toth From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Sep 20 12:12:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! Message-ID: <200209201712.KAA07648@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Tothwolf > >On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> An interesting side note about the Belden cords that I found in a web >> search: >> >> " The Eberline Instruments using the non-standard AC cord are listed on >> page two of this bulletin. Belden power cord model #17280 has standard >> polarity per UL 817 and CSA 895B and should NOT be used on the Eberline >> instruments listed. Belden model #17952 has polarity, neutral and lines >> reversed and is the only cord to be used on the Eberline Instruments >> listed. The non-standard cords come from the manufacturer with a paper >> label stating that they have reversed polarity but the labels are >> susceptible to damage and are easily lost. " > >I have one of those non-standard cords in a box of parts for my JC80 >system. It appears Johnson Controls used those cords for that system. I'd >like to find a couple more of those cords (I'm short one, and could use a >spare) if anyone comes across any. > >-Toth > > Hi Well, it looks like I was right after all. The part numbers I posted were correct. I could use a couple of these cords myself. I have a few but not as many as I have things to use it on and some cords are in poor shape. I'm not sure If Allied has a minimum order ( but I think they do ) but I'd be willing go in with someone else on a purchase of at least 3 of these cords. Their on line is listed as www.allied.avnet.com. I haven't checked it out yet but if there is some interest it might be worth it. The shipping will be high compared to the cost of the cords but that is life. Dwight Repost of numbers: manuf Manuf# Allied# Length Price Alpha 543 663-7082 7'6" 4.62 Belden 17952 612-3569 8' 5.38 < non-standard line/neutral Belden 17280 612-3677 7'6" 4.84 From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Sep 20 12:45:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020920112941.4f970018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > I was scrounging around last week and found a pair of HH 5 1/4" > floppy drives that are marked "2.4" next to a disk symbol on the > front. Just out of curiousity I picked them up and checked > and sure enough Interesting that those guys refer to them as "high density", but refer to the 1.2M as "double density" > they're 2.4Mb floppy drives! I've never heard of these before. Does > anyone know what the disk format is or where these are used? The > drives are Hitachi model FD532EIU. The label on them says that they're > made for IBM. They're in some sort of a plastic sled. I'm not familiar with them, at all. I don't think that IBM ever released a machine with them, like their 3.9" drive. It does not appear to be supported in any version of PC-DOS. But a simple block mode device driver is all that would be needed. There have been a few different higher density 5.25" systems, such as the one that Kodak bought out. But I don't think that this is the same one. There are two obvious ways to get that capacity. One would be to halve the track spacing to 192 TPI. That would give you 160 tracks per side, with 15 sectors per track with 512 bytes per sector, and would permit using "regular" 600 Oerstedt ("1.2M") diskettes, but possibly with some problems with diskettes that aren't quite up to it. (like the problems that Tony has with using "360K" diskettes for 720K 5.25.) It would require a smaller step track to track, and a narrower head (about 1/2 mm wide track v the 1/6mm wide track of the 1.2M) The other way to do it would be to use a barium ferrite diskette (5.25 version of the 2.8M 3.5"). That would require a special head for "vertical recording", and would require a 1000K bits per second data transfer rate (same as for the 2.8M 3.5"). Then it would still only be 80 tracks per side, but instead of 15 512 byte sectors, it would be able to fit 30 (or maybe even 32) 512 byte sectors on each track. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Sep 20 12:50:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Humming Variac? Message-ID: <200209201751.NAA9711913@shell.TheWorld.com> >> >> >> >> Is it normal for a Variac to hum when it's plugged in? >> >> >> >That all depends on what it's humming. *gd&r* >> >> Ten thousand comedians out of work and we get Gene! :-/ >> >Sorry Joe, if you were expecting a professional, you'll just have to >wait. :) Hey, even the jokes here are more than 10 years old... so they fit the requirements of the group... :-) Megan From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Sep 20 14:08:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Any Sanyo/Everex/Zeos 386 LT owners ? Message-ID: <3D8B2C58.15565.274B09DF@localhost> I finally got serious about my Commodore LT and did some major Googling thru the NGs. Following some hints I found, I got what I think is the pinout for the 8pin mini-din power plug on the Zeos site. Sanyo appears to be the mfgr. Anyone on the list have one of these beasts ? 3 of the pins take 15v and I'd like to find the amperage requirements. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 20 15:14:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive? Message-ID: Those drives must be from an IBM control unit, such as a 3174, since I know the drives in it say "1.4M" next to them. Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From donm at cts.com Fri Sep 20 15:33:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020920112941.4f970018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > I was scrounging around last week and found a pair of HH 5 1/4" > floppy drives that are marked "2.4" next to a disk symbol on the > front. Just out of curiousity I picked them up and checked > and sure enough > they're 2.4Mb floppy drives! I've never heard of these before. Does > anyone know what the disk format is or where these are used? The > drives are Hitachi model FD532EIU. The label on them says that they're > made for IBM. They're in some sort of a plastic sled. Do these drives have the typical single stepper to position the heads, Joe, or is there an additional "vernier stepper" to more closely position them as was the case with the Drivetec and (later) Kodak drives? Both of those required preformatted disks that contained servo tracks. - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 20 15:38:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Humming Variac? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Sep 19, 2 08:55:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1134 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020920/1d33d556/attachment.ksh From dan at ekoan.com Fri Sep 20 16:19:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Data General Nova 3 pictures In-Reply-To: <200209201712.KAA07648@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920172519.037fe350@enigma> Hello, As a follow-up to the DG Nova 3/12 rescue, I've taken a bunch of photos of the system and added what commentary I could. You can see the whole thing at http://www.decodesystems.com/dg-nova3/ Cheers, Dan From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Sep 20 16:34:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Data General Nova 3 pictures In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920172519.037fe350@enigma> Message-ID: I would venture that the MPX8A is a multiplexor. It probably allows switching between various inputs into the ADC. Likely it has some buffering, and is perhaps medical rated. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dan Veeneman Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 17:27 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Data General Nova 3 pictures Hello, As a follow-up to the DG Nova 3/12 rescue, I've taken a bunch of photos of the system and added what commentary I could. You can see the whole thing at http://www.decodesystems.com/dg-nova3/ Cheers, Dan From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Sep 20 16:39:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Data General Nova 3 pictures In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920172519.037fe350@enigma> Message-ID: And in looking closer at the pictures, I would venture to say that the 8 input selector on the front of the respirator control panel is what selects which channel on the mux that gets routed to the A/D. At the time, those A/Ds were *incredibly* expensive. I had a 12 bit ADC and DAC pair given to me, and they were valued around $500 at the time (1983?) --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dan Veeneman Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 17:27 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Data General Nova 3 pictures Hello, As a follow-up to the DG Nova 3/12 rescue, I've taken a bunch of photos of the system and added what commentary I could. You can see the whole thing at http://www.decodesystems.com/dg-nova3/ Cheers, Dan From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Sep 20 16:41:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Data General Nova 3 pictures In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920172519.037fe350@enigma> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > As a follow-up to the DG Nova 3/12 rescue, I've taken a bunch > of photos of the system and added what commentary I could. > You can see the whole thing at > http://www.decodesystems.com/dg-nova3/ The Analog Devices MPX8A is a multiplexer of some sort. I think the databook you need is the Analog Devices Module Subsystems Volume 1. I have Volume 2, but it does not cover that device. -Toth From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Sep 20 17:02:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Heathkit H10 paper tape reader/punch? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920172519.037fe350@enigma> References: <200209201712.KAA07648@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020920180124.04228ea8@mail.njd.concentric.com> I'm starting to play with a Heathkit H11 I got a while back. Does anyone have an H10 reader/punch they're not using? -- Tony From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Fri Sep 20 17:42:00 2002 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Data General Nova 3 pictures References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920172519.037fe350@enigma> Message-ID: <013601c260f5$a5308670$e266bccc@newhare> Note that the "cassette I/O" controllers normally have a serial port interface on them and the "cassette I/O" section os usually unpopulated. This 4075/76/77/78 controller was favored over the standard DG 4007/8/9/10 serial port controller for many years as it had more options and was easier to configure than the the 4007 board. So you probably have two serial ports in that configuration... Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Veeneman" To: Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 3:27 PM Subject: Data General Nova 3 pictures > Hello, > > As a follow-up to the DG Nova 3/12 rescue, I've taken a bunch > of photos of the system and added what commentary I could. > You can see the whole thing at > http://www.decodesystems.com/dg-nova3/ > > > Cheers, > > Dan > From dan at ekoan.com Fri Sep 20 17:49:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Heathkit H10 paper tape reader/punch? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020920180124.04228ea8@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920172519.037fe350@enigma> <200209201712.KAA07648@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920185549.038f0d90@enigma> At 06:02 PM 9/20/02 -0400, you wrote: >I'm starting to play with a Heathkit H11 I got a while back. Does anyone >have an H10 reader/punch they're not using? I hate to sound like an AOL'er, but..."me too!" I've got an H-11 in unknown condition with an H-10 that doesn't work. I'd love to get my hands on another H-10, even temporarily, in order to try and get mine working correctly. Tony, I've got the Heathkit manual for the H-10 if you need any information from it. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Sep 20 18:04:01 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Heathkit H10 paper tape reader/punch? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920185549.038f0d90@enigma> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020920180124.04228ea8@mail.njd.concentric.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020920172519.037fe350@enigma> <200209201712.KAA07648@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020920190350.042b3110@mail.njd.concentric.com> Thanks! I have what looks like a full set of H11 docs, so if you need anything, drop me a line. -- Tony At 06:58 PM 9/20/2002 -0400, you wrote: >At 06:02 PM 9/20/02 -0400, you wrote: >>I'm starting to play with a Heathkit H11 I got a while back. Does anyone >>have an H10 reader/punch they're not using? > >I hate to sound like an AOL'er, but..."me too!" > >I've got an H-11 in unknown condition with an H-10 that doesn't work. >I'd love to get my hands on another H-10, even temporarily, in order >to try and get mine working correctly. > >Tony, I've got the Heathkit manual for the H-10 if you need any information >from it. > > >Cheers, > >Dan >www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Sep 20 18:14:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Flat Panel Display Message-ID: <005601c260fb$858d4140$f7000240@oemcomputer> Picked up a Gateway 15" digital flat panel display at auction on Thursday and need the video cable and ac adapter for it. Gateway was no help both online and I went to one of their local stores (they do not carry parts). During a google search I did find these part numbers cable = 8003275 and adapter = 6500322. no luck on ebay either. Anyone have clue? Thanks From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Sep 20 18:17:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Fw: Flat Panel Display Message-ID: <006401c260fc$03dff830$f7000240@oemcomputer> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctech@classiccmp" Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 6:14 PM Subject: Flat Panel Display > Picked up a Gateway 15" digital flat panel display at auction on Thursday > and need the video cable and ac adapter for it. Gateway was no help both > online and I went to one of their local stores (they do not carry parts). > During a google search I did find these part numbers cable = 8003275 and > adapter = 6500322. no luck on ebay either. Anyone have clue? Thanks > From patrick at evocative.com Fri Sep 20 19:33:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Flat Panel Display In-Reply-To: <005601c260fb$858d4140$f7000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: You might try Computer Parts Unlimited http://www.cpumart.com/ --Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Keys > Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 4:15 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp > Subject: Flat Panel Display > > > Picked up a Gateway 15" digital flat panel display at auction on Thursday > and need the video cable and ac adapter for it. Gateway was no help both > online and I went to one of their local stores (they do not carry parts). > During a google search I did find these part numbers cable = 8003275 and > adapter = 6500322. no luck on ebay either. Anyone have clue? Thanks > > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Sep 20 20:27:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Fw: units available Message-ID: <010001c2610e$140edcf0$9c469280@george> Found on spamnet news, wish I was a few hours closer! Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hank Vander Waal" Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 1:24 PM Subject: units available > Anyone interested in the following pieces of equipment please contact me off > list. Doing some house cleaning here and need to move a couple of things. > They are located in West Michigan near Grand Rapids. > > MV3100-30 with 32MB memory > can throw in drive or 2 > > Decservers - 200's and 300's with MMJ connectors > 90L & 90l+ > Decserver 250 with LP ports > VT 320's > > I really dont want to throw them away - I can remember how much this stuf > cost new !! :) > > please contact me at hvanderw at mansply dot com > > > From jwillis at arielusa.com Fri Sep 20 20:38:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: units available Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6B5@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> -----Original Message----- From: Robert F. Schaefer Sent: Fri 9/20/2002 7:27 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Fw: units available Found on spamnet news, wish I was a few hours closer! Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hank Vander Waal" Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 1:24 PM Subject: units available What are you asking for the MV3100 and do you ship? Thanks John Willis > Anyone interested in the following pieces of equipment please contact me off > list. Doing some house cleaning here and need to move a couple of things. > They are located in West Michigan near Grand Rapids. > > MV3100-30 with 32MB memory > can throw in drive or 2 > > Decservers - 200's and 300's with MMJ connectors > 90L & 90l+ > Decserver 250 with LP ports > VT 320's > > I really dont want to throw them away - I can remember how much this stuf > cost new !! :) > > please contact me at hvanderw at mansply dot com > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2760 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020920/97c52ce7/attachment.bin From fernande at internet1.net Fri Sep 20 23:18:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: OT: Update on console radio/record recorder (was: Re: OT: dumpster dive ...) References: Message-ID: <3D8BF307.50002@internet1.net> Tothwolf wrote: > The cabinet is made up of two major parts. The front part that you can see > in those photos is solid, and I think it is oak. That part is about 5-6" > deep and sticks out from the wall. The other part of the cabinet sets into > the wall and is made of rough pine/fur/scrap wood. The rear part is in > poor shape too, since it stuck out about 10" beyond the wall into a > garage. The garage?? That's nice. > > The radio itself is a Truetone, though the model number escapes me for the > moment. The record recorder is actually in fair shape, but is very, very > dusty. Much of that dust appears to have crept in from the garage. When I > started looking at removing the radio, I found that someone had removed > the back of the cabinet while attempting to figure out how it was put in, > and it was left off for awhile before I got to it. Truetone.... I have two Trutone/Raymer items. They're newer (early 70's) PA/store music type components, However. I didn;t realize that was a record recorder. I found a home recorded record at the Salvation Army store last week. It was the first tiem I had ever seen one. Actually, before this thread, I didn't know they existed. > > I also found the thing was live electrically when I pulled it. Talk about > a fire hazard... The cord for the radio is brittle and bare in lots of > places. I had to cut power to that section of the house twice; once to > remove the radio and record recorder, and again when pulling the cabinet, > since it has a built-in outlet. > > I'll eventually do a full restoration of the radio and record recorder, > both electronically and mechanically. Something is strange about the wood > front though, it has a waxy like feel to it right now, and it flakes off. > I'm thinking that may just be 20-30 year old furniture wax that is > deteriorating, but I don't know for sure yet. The radio I had was flaking, but it wasn't waxy, it was the finish :-) > > If there is interest, I'll post when I get time to take some photos of the > radio chassis. Yes, please do. Have you had any time to work on the Fisher I sent you? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From foo at siconic.com Sat Sep 21 00:36:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! In-Reply-To: <200209201712.KAA07648@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Well, it looks like I was right after all. The part numbers > I posted were correct. I could use a couple of these cords > myself. I have a few but not as many as I have things to use it > on and some cords are in poor shape. I'm not sure If Allied > has a minimum order ( but I think they do ) but I'd be willing > go in with someone else on a purchase of at least 3 of these > cords. Their on line is listed as www.allied.avnet.com. Ditto. Count me in for 3. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Sep 21 00:41:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:30 2005 Subject: Humming Variac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > It's quiet. But I left it plugged in and when I was going to bed at night > > and the house was quiet it was noticeable enough that I went to > > OK< that sounds about normal, actually... Cool. > A worn brush is _not_ the cause of the humming. But if somebody had > replaced the brush with one of the wrong type then it could cause problems. > > Often, replacement brushes are available from the manufacturer (at least > I've seen them listed in catalogues over here). It's rare to need to > replace one, though. M'kay. Thanks very much for the information, Tony! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sat Sep 21 09:40:29 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: what drive does an RV02K WORK disk go in? References: <200209180122.g8I1MhM12937@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3D8C84DA.DBDDB739@Vishay.com> Probably this is not a very hot hint, but as a last resort and if nothing else helps, I remember having seen a RV20 drive in a TV report about the Swiss lottery. Apparently, they use this type of drive for data archiving, so maybe they might be able to read a pack for you. I dunno if they might be *willing* to do so, however... Andreas "Zane H. Healy" schrieb: > > Ouch! Good luck. I wonder how rare one of those are. I've heard of them > (I think), but I'm pretty sure I've never seen one for sale. Depending on > how badly you need the data, you might want to consider looking for a > professional data recovery service that might have a drive (unless you're > lucky and someone on the list can do it for you). > > Zane > > > DEC RV20 optical disk drive... is what you are looking for... > > > > > > > > Brian Hechinger wrote: > > > > > and does anyone know where i could get one? i need to get data off of an > > > RV02K pak, but lack the drive. From mranalog at attbi.com Sat Sep 21 12:56:00 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! Message-ID: <3D8CB2C5.BC7AB4C8@attbi.com> > Hi > Well, it looks like I was right after all. The part numbers > I posted were correct. I could use a couple of these cords > myself. I have a few but not as many as I have things to use it > on and some cords are in poor shape. I'm not sure If Allied > has a minimum order ( but I think they do ) but I'd be willing > go in with someone else on a purchase of at least 3 of these > cords. Their on line is listed as www.allied.avnet.com. > I haven't checked it out yet but if there is some interest > it might be worth it. The shipping will be high compared to > the cost of the cords but that is life. > Dwight > Repost of numbers: > manuf Manuf# Allied# Length Price > Alpha 543 663-7082 7'6" 4.62 > Belden 17952 612-3569 8' 5.38 < non-standard line/neutral > Belden 17280 612-3677 7'6" 4.84 I could use 3 of these power cords. They are just what I need for my Electronic Associates TR-20, TR-10 and the ATC-510 flight simulator. I found the Alpha 663-7082 in their catalog on page 385. $4.85 each for 1-24. $4.41 each for 25-up. http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=385.pdf They say "There is a $25.00 minimum on all on-line orders." "Orders that total less than $25.00 may be subject to a handling fee. The amount of the handling fee will be the difference between $25.00 and the total amount of the order." "The shipping cost on any order will be determined at the time of shipment. All shipments are F.O.B Fort Worth, Texas. Shipping method, in most cases, is the customer?s choice." Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog Analogrechner, calculateur analogique, calcolatore analogico, analoogrekenaar, komputer analogowy, analog bilgisayar, kampiutere ghiyasi, analoge computer. ========================================= From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 21 16:13:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Gateway was no help Re: Flat Panel Display In-Reply-To: <005601c260fb$858d4140$f7000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020921165005.0e6f2b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:14 PM 9/20/02 -0500, you wrote: >Picked up a Gateway 15" digital flat panel display at auction on Thursday >and need the video cable and ac adapter for it. Gateway was no help both >online and I went to one of their local stores (they do not carry parts). That should tell you where NOT to buy your next computer! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 21 16:14:07 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Data General Nova 3 pictures In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920172519.037fe350@enigma> References: <200209201712.KAA07648@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020921170814.0e6fa0f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have the 1984, 1990 and 1992 AD catalogs and none of them lists the ADC-120 device. Based on the PNs that they do list I think the 120 part is far older. There's no mention of ANYTHING with a MPX part number. Have you tried contacting AD and asking them about them? BTW doesn't AD's website suck?! There's nothing on it except talk about clones of the Intel CPUs for use in PCs. Joe At 05:27 PM 9/20/02 -0400, you wrote: > Through the access panel you can see a couple of Analog Devices modules. The function of the ADC-120Z I can guess, but what is the MPX8A? Comments received: J.C. Wren: I would venture that the MPX8A is a multiplexor. It probably allows switching between various inputs into the ADC. Likely it has some buffering, and is perhaps medical rated. And in looking closer at the pictures, I would venture to say that the 8 input selector on the front of the respirator control panel is what selects which channel on the mux that gets routed to the A/D. At the time, those A/Ds were *incredibly* expensive. I had a 12 bit ADC and DAC pair given to me, and they were valued around $500 at the time (1983?) Toth: The Analog Devices MPX8A is a multiplexer of some sort. I think the databook you need is the Analog Devices Module Subsystems Volume 1. I have Volume 2, but it does not cover that device. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 21 16:14:47 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Data General Nova 3 pictures In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020920172519.037fe350@enigma> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020921171023.0e6fa9ec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:52 PM 9/20/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > >> As a follow-up to the DG Nova 3/12 rescue, I've taken a bunch >> of photos of the system and added what commentary I could. >> You can see the whole thing at >> http://www.decodesystems.com/dg-nova3/ > >The Analog Devices MPX8A is a multiplexer of some sort. I think the >databook you need is the Analog Devices Module Subsystems Volume 1. I have >Volume 2, but it does not cover that device. I have volume 2 of the 1984 databook but it contains a complete index and PN reference and there's no mention of either part in it. Joe From jfrim at idirect.com Sat Sep 21 20:49:00 2002 From: jfrim at idirect.com (Justin Frim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Televideo 912C and General DataComm Gen Net Terminal Server In-Reply-To: <3D875CCC.5FA5098D@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: Since we're talking about Televideo terminals here, I think I'll pipe up with my situation. I have a Televideo TS-800A workstation, wihch IIRC is basically a TVI-950 with a daughterboard containing a Z-80 CPU and an RS-422 serial interface for a floppy disk. Apparently this "dumb terminal" could also run CP/M for some basic tasks.(?) Unfortunately, I too do not have the manuals for it. It's been a while since I played with it, but I think I was able to set the serial line parameters (baud rate, word length, parity, stop bits). I remember connecting it to the RS-232 port on the back of a PC running a VT-100 emulator and I was able to type text across both ways. Does anyone here know where I can find some documentation on this terminal (setup, escape sequences, etc) so I can do more than just type "hello world" on this thing? I'd also like to try out the Z-80 daughterboard, but I don't know if I need to first find an RS-422 floppy disk drive, or if the terminal can download it's bootstrap code and OS right off the serial cable. --Justin 2002-09-17 12:48:12, Paul Williams wrote: >John Reynolds wrote: >> >> I have a Televideo 912C and a General DataComm Gen Net Terminal >> Server. I want to make these two machines talk to each other. >> >> Can anyone give me information on operating these machines, or point >> me in the right direction? > >If you give Google the name of the terminal and tell it you're feeling >lucky, you will be. > >TeleVideo Operator's Reference Handbook >TVI-912B and TVI-920B >TVI-912C and TVI-920C > >http://vt100.net/televideo/912b-om/ (PDF only, at the moment) > >Sorry, I know nothing about the terminal server. Have you tried changing >the baud rate on the terminal? > >- Paul > > From bill at timeguy.com Sat Sep 21 20:52:11 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! In-Reply-To: <200209181707.KAA06097@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20020918131305.A48131-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Umm - aren't those plugs the same as used on older kitchen appliances and calculators? I'd think you could find several at any Goodwill store. Of course, there's always alligator clips and lampcord, too... the universal power cord. On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: MTPro@aol.com > > >One more time. Anyone?! Would anyone please have an extra power plug they > could sell me for my generic S-100 computer? Somehow mine must have gotten > given away with other misc. cords. It's the kind with two sort of oval > female prong inputs on the computer end. Anyway, I'd be happy to furnish a > picture to anyone who needs to verify. I haven't had it up and running for a > couple of years now, and I would like to. Thank you, David > > > > Hi > I have an Allied catalog that is a couple of years > old. They call these SVT cords. They have several > listed: > > manuf Manuf# Allied# Length Price > Alpha 543 663-7082 7'6" 4.62 > Belden 17952 612-3569 8' 5.38 > Belden 17280 612-3677 7'6" 4.84 > > Hope this helps > Dwight > > From vcf at siconic.com Sat Sep 21 20:52:32 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: An Important Announcement About VCF 5.0 Message-ID: Dear Vintage Computer Festival fan: It is with great pleasure that I announce that the fifth annual Vintage Computer Festival is being sponsored by the Computer History Museum. In conjunction with the CHM's sponsorship, VCF 5.0 will now be held at the Moffett Training & Conference Center at Moffet Federal Airfield in Mountain View, California. The dates of the event will remain October 26th and 27th. Moffett Federal Airfield is of course also the home of the Computer History Museum. This year's tours of the CHM's Visible Storage exhibits will be more tightly integrated with the VCF. The collaboration between the VCF and CHM will make for an exciting computer history experience. Admission to the event will be $10 per person per day for full access to Speakers, the Exhibition and the Marketplace, or $4 per person per day for Exhibition and Marketplace access only. As always, kids 17 and under will be admitted free, and parking is free. Important note for foreign nationals (i.e. non-U.S. citizens): because the Moffett Federal Airfield is a United States military installation, foreign nationals must undergo screening prior to being allowed on the base. We regret this inconvenience. If you are a foreign national (not a United States citizen) planning to attend VCF, please fill out the Foreign National Registration form on the VCF website: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/foreign.php Your registration must be received by September 26, 2002. If you are a United States citizen, you do not need to register. Stay tuned for forthcoming announcements regarding VCF 5.0 or visit the VCF 5.0 website for more information: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/ Vendor booths are still available! Best regards, Sellam Ismail Producer Vintage Computer Festival -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Sat Sep 21 21:18:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! References: <3D8CB2C5.BC7AB4C8@attbi.com> Message-ID: <002701c261de$602ea9a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=385.pdf > #663-7082, $4.85 I could order 5 and send out some individuals if no-one else will. I probably could use 2+ myself, leaving 2+. Send your address if you need 1. John A. From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Sep 21 21:41:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Televideo 912C and General DataComm Gen Net Terminal Server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Justin Frim wrote: > I have a Televideo TS-800A workstation, wihch IIRC is basically a TVI-950 with a daughterboard containing > a Z-80 CPU and an RS-422 serial interface for a floppy disk. Apparently this "dumb terminal" could also > run CP/M for some basic tasks.(?) > Does anyone here know where I can find some documentation on this terminal (setup, escape sequences, etc) > so I can do more than just type "hello world" on this thing? I'd also like to try out the Z-80 > daughterboard, but I don't know if I need to first find an RS-422 floppy disk drive, or if the terminal > can download it's bootstrap code and OS right off the serial cable. IIRC, it would download its OS from something like a TS-806 or TS-816 located at the other end of the RS-422 line. My dad's practice (he's an optometrist) used to have a bunch of the things before the TS-806 died. I used to have a manual for the TS800A, but that got tossed out at some point unfortunately :(, probably when my parents moved. The TS-8?6 would then run some sort of database server usually, and serve data/disk/printer out to the diskless TS800A's Thanks to Don Maslin, I now have a TS-816 that I need to work on resurrecting - the hard drive was crashed when I got it, and it's tape drive (it has no floppy drives) needs at least a new tape-present lamp. -- Pat From voyager at hol.gr Sun Sep 22 03:07:01 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: Message-ID: <000f01c2620e$a4338820$0100a8c0@voyager3> Hi guys I am working on an essay, and I need statistics and figures from the 80's on sales, value, models, types of computers sold. Any number would be appreciated. I need to cover not only the PC market, but the home computer market too. Looking for numbers like like, how many Ti99/4A were sold, per year if possible and at what price, how many Compaq portables, how many Spectrums, QLs, IBM PC/XT, PC/XT clones, etc Could anybody please give me a hand? Thanks in advance From foo at siconic.com Sun Sep 22 11:40:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <000f01c2620e$a4338820$0100a8c0@voyager3> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Voyager wrote: > I am working on an essay, and I need statistics and figures from the 80's on > sales, value, models, types of computers sold. Any number would be > appreciated. I need to cover not only the PC market, but the home computer > market too. > > Looking for numbers like like, how many Ti99/4A were sold, per year if > possible and at what price, how many Compaq portables, how many Spectrums, > QLs, IBM PC/XT, PC/XT clones, etc Sorry, I can only offer you luck in your search for these kinds of statistics. I would love to have them myself. If you find any, please report them back here ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From voyager at hol.gr Sun Sep 22 12:14:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: Message-ID: <000c01c2625b$174c0840$0100a8c0@voyager3> From: "Sellam Ismail" > > I am working on an essay, and I need statistics and figures from the 80's on > > sales, value, models, types of computers sold. Any number would be > > appreciated. I need to cover not only the PC market, but the home computer > > market too. > > > > Looking for numbers like like, how many Ti99/4A were sold, per year if > > possible and at what price, how many Compaq portables, how many Spectrums, > > QLs, IBM PC/XT, PC/XT clones, etc > > Sorry, I can only offer you luck in your search for these kinds of > statistics. I would love to have them myself. > > If you find any, please report them back here ;) > I thought that Dataquest was posting / reporting regurally (quarterly?) the sales of the computer market of the 80s. Unfortunatelly, after a quick search, I cannot locate such a report, or article. I found in Gartner's site, reports back to 1997, 20 years younger than what I am looking for. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sun Sep 22 12:15:01 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (jbdigriz@dragonsweb.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80 Message-ID: <200209221716.g8MHG4un003615@ns2.i16.net> Sellam Ismail wrote .. > On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Voyager wrote: > > > I am working on an essay, and I need statistics and figures from the > 80's on > > sales, value, models, types of computers sold. Any number would be > > appreciated. I need to cover not only the PC market, but the home computer > > market too. > > > > Looking for numbers like like, how many Ti99/4A were sold, per year if > > possible and at what price, how many Compaq portables, how many Spectrums, > > QLs, IBM PC/XT, PC/XT clones, etc > > Sorry, I can only offer you luck in your search for these kinds of > statistics. I would love to have them myself. > > If you find any, please report them back here ;) > Byte Magazine and Infoworld both used to publish figures like this nearly every month or week, respectively, as I recall. Don't remember what their sources were. You're not the only one who'd be interested, though. The figure I always heard for total sales of the 4A was 2-3, maybe 4 million. Not sure how accurate that is, as TI had to eat a bunch of returns when they pulled the plug, but it's probably in the ballpark. There are still piles of them around, anyway. jbdigriz From menadeau at attbi.com Sun Sep 22 12:50:01 2002 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: <000c01c2625b$174c0840$0100a8c0@voyager3> Message-ID: <002301c2625f$02cb7aa0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Market research reports are notoriously unreliable, especially if they are predictive. In the 1980s, InfoWorld did a comparison of PC industry reports from a half-dozen or so firms, and the numbers varied widely. And some firms like Future Computing were prone to wildly optimistic numbers, which endeared them to the manufacturers. Such reports are useful to get an idea of relative numbers, but the only reliable actual production numbers will be from manufacturers' sources. That will be tough, as many of the leading vendors never publicly released real sales figures. Your best sources might be old annual reports, press releases, etc. You might also contact the Charles Babbage Institute (http://www.cbi.umn.edu/), which has an extensive library that houses corporate documents from a wide number of computer manufacturers. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Voyager" To: Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 1:10 PM Subject: Re: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's > > From: "Sellam Ismail" > > > I am working on an essay, and I need statistics and figures from the > 80's on > > > sales, value, models, types of computers sold. Any number would be > > > appreciated. I need to cover not only the PC market, but the home > computer > > > market too. > > > > > > Looking for numbers like like, how many Ti99/4A were sold, per year if > > > possible and at what price, how many Compaq portables, how many > Spectrums, > > > QLs, IBM PC/XT, PC/XT clones, etc > > > > Sorry, I can only offer you luck in your search for these kinds of > > statistics. I would love to have them myself. > > > > If you find any, please report them back here ;) > > > > I thought that Dataquest was posting / reporting regurally (quarterly?) the > sales of the computer market of the 80s. Unfortunatelly, after a quick > search, I cannot locate such a report, or article. I found in Gartner's > site, reports back to 1997, 20 years younger than what I am looking for. > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Sep 22 12:59:00 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! In-Reply-To: <20020918131305.A48131-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> References: <200209181707.KAA06097@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20020922175955.FGBW10370.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Bill Richman > To: > Subject: Re: An S-100 Power Plug - Please?! > Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 13:14:46 -0500 (CDT) > Umm - aren't those plugs the same as used on older kitchen appliances and > calculators? I'd think you could find several at any Goodwill store. Of > course, there's always alligator clips and lampcord, too... the universal > power cord. > Ouch!! That is called "sucide cord"! :-) I once had to make one to run early old LSI-based calculator for fun but I destroyed that dangerous cord right after. That nickname for that "bared ended cord" I didn't know till few weeks ago. Prior to that, I had been bitten (buzzed) by bad plugs and saw "lightenings" fly when I was small so I had healthy respect for those invisible electrons do have teeth after all. Even pulsed high voltage (60V and up) DC or AC, I do still get "that Buzzy" feeling then jerks back & Yowch! Depending, I would let off a blue streak at it. When I must work with HV stuff, I always double check HV is all drained away with HV probe then 150K 10W sandblock between that anode cup and CRT ground strap. Then leave jumper wire clipped to anode and ground strap. I have seen that mysterious charging itself back up happen before. Cheers, Wizard From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Sep 22 14:11:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: OT: URL for the list's Tesla fans Message-ID: <3D8DCFFC.7742.7D3775E@localhost> http://www.edm.net/~jwilliams/tesla.html lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sun Sep 22 21:46:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <000f01c2620e$a4338820$0100a8c0@voyager3>; from voyager@hol.gr on Sun, Sep 22, 2002 at 11:04:13AM +0300 References: <000f01c2620e$a4338820$0100a8c0@voyager3> Message-ID: <20020922194716.A8628@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Sun, Sep 22, 2002 at 11:04:13AM +0300, Voyager wrote: > Hi guys > > I am working on an essay, and I need statistics and figures from the 80's on > sales, value, models, types of computers sold. Any number would be > appreciated. I need to cover not only the PC market, but the home computer > market too. I always thought that companies kept their sales figures secret, and (as Sellam mentioned) the business reports that claim to collect sales figures in one place are not necessarily reliable. So my strategy would be: Find a list of brands you want to concentrate on. You already know the common ones, but the categorized lists of Web sites (that Yahoo, AltaVista, etc. maintain) might still be useful. This site has an excellent cross- reference of models along with release dates and technical details (screen resolution, chips used). http://www.machine-room.org/ There are other "overview" sites which I don't have the URLs for right now. Search engines or categorized lists of Web sites will find them with enough patience. Then look for sites that cover specific brands. http://www.mcmordie.co.uk/ has some figures for Acorn computers (click on "The history of Acorn's computers") http://www.apple2history.org/ is an expanded version of some material from 1991 (click where it says "Welcome to the Apple II History" in bold) And don't forget the library. My university library has the "J. Ramade IBM Series" printed by McGraw-Hill; the books mostly cover mainframe topics but there is one on the PC line: AUTHOR Sanchez, Julio, 1938- TITLE IBM microcomputers : a programmer's handbook / Julio Sanchez, Maria P. Canton. PUB INFO New York : McGraw-Hill, c1990. SERIES J. Ranade IBM series. OTHER AUTHOR Canton, Maria P. LCCN 90005870. ISBN 0070545944. which is actually quite complete. And some of these companies are still in business, so maybe you can tell them you're doing research on '80s machines and get the official prices and sales figures. -- Derek From NOcmcnabbSPAM at 4mcnabb.net Sun Sep 22 22:20:23 2002 From: NOcmcnabbSPAM at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: RSX-11 Kermit Transfers Message-ID: <000e01c26272$6bb40970$3200a8c0@winnt> Which kermit mode should be used when transfering files to an RSX-11 system using kermit, ASCII or BINARY? I realize this is normally based on the type of the file, but when I xfer task files using BINARY I get this silly "not a valid task" message when I try to install or run the file. From dan at ekoan.com Sun Sep 22 22:53:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: CRT Controller Handbook In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <22BD2943-CEA8-11D6-AC4F-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> Pardon my lack of short-term memory, but was someone recently looking for information from the book _CRT Controller Handbook_ by Gerry Kane (1980)? Just today I picked up that title plus the following classic computer titles at a local used book sale: The 8080A Bugbook; Radio Shack; 1977 Build Your Own Universal Computer Interface; Bruce Chubb; 1989 The Cheap Video Cookbook; Don Lancaster; 1978 Computer Peripherals You Can Build; Dr. Gordon Wolfe; 1982 Data Communications for Microcomputers; Nichols et al; 1982 Microcomputer Design and Troubleshooting; Eugene Zumchak; 1982 Microcomputer Interfacing Handbook: A/D & D/A; Joseph Carr; 1980 Microcomputer Primer, 2ed; Michael Waite and Michael Pardee; 1980 Microprocessor Interfacing; Joseph Carr; 1982 Programming Microprocessors; Marshall McMurran; 1977 TRS-80 Interfacing; Jonathan Titus; 1979 TV Typewriter Cookbook; Don Lancaster; 1976 Z-80 Applications; James Coffron; 1983 Z-80 Assembly Language Subroutines; Leventhal and Seville; 1983 Z-80 Microprocessor Programming and Interfacing (Books 1 and 2); Nichols et al; 1979 Also the following databooks: Component Data Catalog; Intel; 1981 HD64180 8-Bit Microprocessor Hardware Manual; Hitachi; January 1988 MCS-86 User's Manual; Intel; July 1978 I also picked up a 1979 copy of _Computer Arithmetic: Principles, Architecture, and Design_ by Kai Hwang. Besides the interesting content, the first page has Leo J. Scanlon's name and imprint stamp. Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From msspcva at yahoo.com Sun Sep 22 23:00:00 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: RSX-11 Kermit Transfers In-Reply-To: <000e01c26272$6bb40970$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <20020923040051.82194.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> Christopher: It's been some time since I used an RSX11 Kermit, however... I believe there's another option on the RSX11 side called "fixed" as in "binary file fixed record length of 512 bytes". You may be ending up with variable record length binary file or a fixed length record size of 128 bytes or something like that. -- Frank --- Christopher McNabb wrote: > Which kermit mode should be used when transfering > files to an RSX-11 system > using kermit, ASCII or BINARY? I realize this is > normally based on the type > of the file, but when I xfer task files using BINARY > I get this silly "not a > valid task" message when I try to install or run the > file. > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From voyager at hol.gr Mon Sep 23 01:34:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: <000f01c2620e$a4338820$0100a8c0@voyager3> <20020922194716.A8628@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <002701c262ca$cdeef2a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> Hi Derek Thanks for the info. I have already "sweeped" sites like Alexios' machine-room.org (he is Greek too you know:-)) )I am looking for figures published every few months in the 80's. Unfortunatelly, BYTE magazine that published them regurally in articles, is not on line for so early issues. Most of the companies I am looking for, are out of business. And, for these that are not, I could never ask for data (I cannot ask IBM or Compaq for how many compatibles were sold in 1986 :((( ) I am focused in the home-computer area, and the systems built from mid-70's to 1995 (when Atari and Amiga eventually died). I try to cover also the PCs used as home computers at the same time. I will search the links you gave me. THANKS! (and for the rest of the guys that replied) Any other help? anybody with figures? :-) George > > I always thought that companies kept their sales figures secret, > and (as Sellam mentioned) the business reports that claim to collect > sales figures in one place are not necessarily reliable. So my > strategy would be: > > Find a list of brands you want to concentrate on. You already know the > common ones, but the categorized lists of Web sites (that Yahoo, AltaVista, > etc. maintain) might still be useful. This site has an excellent cross- > reference of models along with release dates and technical details > (screen resolution, chips used). > > http://www.machine-room.org/ > > There are other "overview" sites which I don't have the URLs for > right now. Search engines or categorized lists of Web sites will > find them with enough patience. > > Then look for sites that cover specific brands. > > http://www.mcmordie.co.uk/ > > has some figures for Acorn computers (click on "The history of Acorn's > computers") > > http://www.apple2history.org/ > > is an expanded version of some material from 1991 (click where it says > "Welcome to the Apple II History" in bold) > > And don't forget the library. My university library has the "J. Ramade > IBM Series" printed by McGraw-Hill; the books mostly cover mainframe > topics but there is one on the PC line: > > AUTHOR Sanchez, Julio, 1938- > TITLE IBM microcomputers : a programmer's handbook / Julio Sanchez, > Maria P. Canton. > PUB INFO New York : McGraw-Hill, c1990. > SERIES J. Ranade IBM series. > OTHER AUTHOR Canton, Maria P. > LCCN 90005870. > ISBN 0070545944. > > which is actually quite complete. > > And some of these companies are still in business, so maybe you can tell > them you're doing research on '80s machines and get the official prices > and sales figures. > > -- Derek From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Sep 23 02:49:01 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <002701c262ca$cdeef2a0$0100a8c0@voyager3>; from voyager@hol.gr on Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 09:31:08AM +0300 References: <000f01c2620e$a4338820$0100a8c0@voyager3> <20020922194716.A8628@eskimo.eskimo.com> <002701c262ca$cdeef2a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> Message-ID: <20020923004948.A18993@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 09:31:08AM +0300, Voyager wrote: > Hi Derek > > Thanks for the info. I have already "sweeped" sites like Alexios' > machine-room.org (he is Greek too you know:-)) )I am looking for figures > published every few months in the 80's. Unfortunatelly, BYTE magazine that > published them regurally in articles, is not on line for so early issues. Oh. I didn't know that you were looking for BYTE. Did you mention it earlier and I wasn't paying attention? > Most of the companies I am looking for, are out of business. And, for these > that are not, I could never ask for data (I cannot ask IBM or Compaq for how > many compatibles were sold in 1986 :((( ) No, but you could ask about genuine IBM and Compaq machines. What exactly is the purpose of your essay? How much time do you have? -- Derek From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Sep 23 03:42:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: AES CPM on E-Pay Message-ID: <3D8E757D.22650.640CE2@localhost> An interesting early CPM computer, complete with monitor and fdds. AES is Automatic Electronic Systems, a Montreal company that was founded by Stephen Dorsey who then sold the company and went on to found Micom. He put out a remarkable Word Processor/computer called the MICOM 2000 before the Apple got out of Woz's garage. AES must have mfrd. this after Dorsey sold it. No date given but likely pre 80. Wish I could afford it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2056611909 Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From voyager at hol.gr Mon Sep 23 04:00:01 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (George Kourvaras) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: <000f01c2620e$a4338820$0100a8c0@voyager3> <20020922194716.A8628@eskimo.eskimo.com> <002701c262ca$cdeef2a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> <20020923004948.A18993@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <009c01c262df$e8597100$8301a8c0@george> > Oh. I didn't know that you were looking for BYTE. Did you mention it > earlier and I wasn't paying attention? No, I did not, but it would be a great source of info if they had online the early issues :-( I should also check the PCW and PCMag, but I have not any links to these yet. > > Most of the companies I am looking for, are out of business. And, for these > > that are not, I could never ask for data (I cannot ask IBM or Compaq for how > > many compatibles were sold in 1986 :((( ) > > No, but you could ask about genuine IBM and Compaq machines. > > What exactly is the purpose of your essay? How much time do you have? It's a MSc thesis, on Retrocomputing and Recycling of home micros of the area 1975-1995 (mostly 80s actually) Deadline is really short, draft at the end of the month, complete presentation in mid-October. But I need desperately any stats to build a business model. From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon Sep 23 04:12:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: KDF 9 Programming manual. Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146EA6@BUSH02> I've found a programming manual for this English Electric machine. With luck I will eventually get it OCRed and posted somewhere but if anyone has any questions it may answer meanwhile feel free to ask. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Sep 23 04:36:01 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <009c01c262df$e8597100$8301a8c0@george>; from voyager@hol.gr on Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 12:02:12PM +0300 References: <000f01c2620e$a4338820$0100a8c0@voyager3> <20020922194716.A8628@eskimo.eskimo.com> <002701c262ca$cdeef2a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> <20020923004948.A18993@eskimo.eskimo.com> <009c01c262df$e8597100$8301a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20020923023642.A23209@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 12:02:12PM +0300, George Kourvaras wrote: > No, I did not, but it would be a great source of info if they had online the > early issues :-( More than one person on the list has the early issues (in paper format). Can you describe where in each issue to find the figures? > > What exactly is the purpose of your essay? How much time do you have? > > It's a MSc thesis, on Retrocomputing and Recycling of home micros of the > area 1975-1995 (mostly 80s actually) I would be surprised to see much recycling -- computers weren't redesigned as often then as they were now, and they were more expensive, so people upgraded or just made do with what they had. -- Derek From hansp at aconit.org Mon Sep 23 06:31:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: KDF 9 Programming manual. References: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146EA6@BUSH02> Message-ID: <3D8EFB86.80004@aconit.org> Davison, Lee wrote: > I've found a programming manual for this English Electric > machine. With luck I will eventually get it OCRed and > posted somewhere but if anyone has any questions it may > answer meanwhile feel free to ask. Oooh, VERY nice. This is something I've been searching for for some time! Which side of the pond are you on? Any chance of getting a copy, I'd be happy to do scanning, OCR'ing and/or retyping. The KDF9 is one machine I'd really like to do a simulator for. Anyone have any disgnostic programs for the beastie? -- hbp From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Sep 23 08:02:15 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for book Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126F0D@MAIL10> Hello, all: I'm looking for the following book from the early Dr. Dobbs book series. "SmallWindows - A Library of Windowing Functions for the C Language" written by James E. Hendrix. The original publisher is M&T Books. If anyone has this and wouldn't mind parting with it, please contact me off list. Thanks. Rich Cini From at258 at osfn.org Mon Sep 23 08:32:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <20020923023642.A23209@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: I think with larger machines, there may have been a tendency to recycle by sale. Many older machines found homes at other, smaller companies. On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 12:02:12PM +0300, George Kourvaras wrote: > > No, I did not, but it would be a great source of info if they had online the > > early issues :-( > > More than one person on the list has the early issues (in paper format). > Can you describe where in each issue to find the figures? > > > > What exactly is the purpose of your essay? How much time do you have? > > > > It's a MSc thesis, on Retrocomputing and Recycling of home micros of the > > area 1975-1995 (mostly 80s actually) > > I would be surprised to see much recycling -- computers weren't redesigned > as often then as they were now, and they were more expensive, so people > upgraded or just made do with what they had. > > -- Derek > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Mon Sep 23 09:57:01 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: OT: Wanted: Timex Datalink 150S wristwatch Message-ID: To make this sort of on topic, I'm willing to trade some classic hardware (various S-100, old Tandy, old Mac, others...) for one. NOTE: The watch does not have to be working, just in good cosmetic condition. Please email if interested. Thanks, Bill Sudbrink wh.sudbrink@verizon.net From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Sep 23 10:08:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <009c01c262df$e8597100$8301a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, George Kourvaras wrote: > > Oh. I didn't know that you were looking for BYTE. Did you mention it > > earlier and I wasn't paying attention? > > No, I did not, but it would be a great source of info if they had online the > early issues :-( > I should also check the PCW and PCMag, but I have not any links to these > yet. I know it may not seem 'techno-savvy', but have you tried your campus's library? Here at Purdue (according to the search page anyways) we've got backissues going back to 1980. If you don't have much luck finding anything, contact me off list and I should be able to get around to doing some research Wednesday or Thursday (After my two exams this week, that is). -- Pat From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 23 10:44:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: RSX-11 Kermit Transfers In-Reply-To: <20020923040051.82194.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020923154525.43309.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > Christopher: > > It's been some time since I used an RSX11 Kermit, > however... And I never did, but I used VMS Kermit a lot 10-15 years ago, and the problems/issues are similar (due to the filesystem) > I believe there's another option on the RSX11 side > called "fixed" as in "binary file fixed record length > of 512 bytes". Yes. Same as VMS. RMS (Record Management Services), a library that has no equivalent that I know of in UNIX or Windows, understands record-oriented files, not just sequences of bytes. Text files, object libraries and tasks/executables are all different. > You may be ending up with variable record length > binary file or a fixed length record size of 128 bytes > or something like that. Exactly. We used to run into this problem all the time when I was working customer support at SRC. With many of our customers, it was faster and simpler to mail them a 9-track tape than talk them through how to use Kermit (since we typically had to send binary files). Programs are somewhat easy - as Larry said, 'set file type fixed' on the RSX end (or both, if appropriate) will tell RSX (or VMS) Kermit to open the file via RMS to the correct type for a runnable program. What will give you fits will be .OLB (Object Library) files or any other kind of file that has a complex record structure (VMS Backup files?) We resorted to a program called BACKPACK.EXE for VMS. Think of it like a UUENCODE for RMS files. It converts a binary file to printable ASCII, including RMS record metadata. ISTR, BACKPACK.EXE was written in FORTRAN, in case anyone wants to port it anywhere. Given that it only really helps when moving things from VMS<->VMS, etc., it probably won't help you with your problem, but I wanted to mention it as a period solution to the worst-case file transfer problem with complex files on a DEC machine. > --- Christopher McNabb > wrote: > > Which kermit mode should be used when transfering > > files to an RSX-11 system using kermit, ASCII or BINARY? > > I realize this is normally based on the type > > of the file, but when I xfer task files using BINARY > > I get this silly "not a valid task" message when I try to > > install or run the file. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 23 12:18:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <20020923004948.A18993@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: > > Most of the companies I am looking for, are out of business. And, for these > > that are not, I could never ask for data (I cannot ask IBM or Compaq for how > > many compatibles were sold in 1986 :((( ) > No, but you could ask about genuine IBM and Compaq machines. Or you could ask intel their production and sales numbers for 80x86 microprocessors. The total number of "compatibles" is gonna be about the intel production, plus the production of competing chip companies, minus chips used for other non "compatible" 80x86 devices. The intel production will be a more accurate number than some of the "annual report" figures! (stock manipulation sometimes took the form of counting warehoused unsold machines as if they were sales, and then in a subsequent report counting the same machine again when they sold) How many people believe that Apple outsold IBM? From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 23 12:21:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: AES CPM on E-Pay In-Reply-To: <3D8E757D.22650.640CE2@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > An interesting early CPM computer, complete with monitor and fdds. AES is > Automatic Electronic Systems, a Montreal company that was founded by > Stephen Dorsey who then sold the company and went on to found Micom. > He put out a remarkable Word Processor/computer called the MICOM 2000 > before the Apple got out of Woz's garage. AES must have mfrd. this after > Dorsey sold it. No date given but likely pre 80. Wish I could afford it. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2056611909 Well, if he claims to be pre-Apple, then I certainly hope that it is pre-80! Is this the "Lanier"? Wait until you check out the disk format and/or try to transfer files to or from. :-) From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 23 12:25:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Most of the companies I am looking for, are out of business. And, for these > > > that are not, I could never ask for data (I cannot ask IBM or Compaq for how > > > many compatibles were sold in 1986 :((( ) > > No, but you could ask about genuine IBM and Compaq machines. > > Or you could ask intel their production and sales numbers for > 80x86 microprocessors. The problem with that approach is that 80x86 processors ended up in many more things than just computers: phone systems for one. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From voyager at hol.gr Mon Sep 23 12:39:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: <000f01c2620e$a4338820$0100a8c0@voyager3> <20020922194716.A8628@eskimo.eskimo.com> <002701c262ca$cdeef2a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> <20020923004948.A18993@eskimo.eskimo.com> <009c01c262df$e8597100$8301a8c0@george> <20020923023642.A23209@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <00cb01c26327$ae02f920$0100a8c0@voyager3> > More than one person on the list has the early issues (in paper format). > Can you describe where in each issue to find the figures? Difficult to know. It's in the editorial or in aricles. I cannot tell, as I do not have any of these issues. I've got some PCW of 1986 if I recall, but not the rest :-( > > > What exactly is the purpose of your essay? How much time do you have? > > > > It's a MSc thesis, on Retrocomputing and Recycling of home micros of the > > area 1975-1995 (mostly 80s actually) > > I would be surprised to see much recycling -- computers weren't redesigned > as often then as they were now, and they were more expensive, so people > upgraded or just made do with what they had. I want to point out, what happen to the home computers, and that it's impossible to upgrade them, anyway, and the only solution/destination is the retrocomputing or collecting these items. Rotrocomputing seems to be the most environment-friendly destination of these micros. I have made a small research on the PC-compatible part of the home micros, in order to proove that there is no actual collector's value for these systems (unless you consider some extreme cases). From voyager at hol.gr Mon Sep 23 12:39:25 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: Message-ID: <00d101c26327$b23b4ba0$0100a8c0@voyager3> From: "Merle K. Peirce" > I think with larger machines, there may have been a tendency to recycle > by sale. Many older machines found homes at other, smaller companies. > you are right. I am focused on the home computer market of the '80s, were the micros are rather small in volume and can be stored away, probably as a foundation on a future collection (like mine). Most of the PCs are bulky and also upgradable, expanding the lifecycle of the actual machine at least for 10 years in some extreme cases (you could use the PC/XT/AT box to hold a Pentium II class motherboard), something impossible for the Sinclair ZX Spectrum or ZX81s. The second option, is to extend lie cycle or "recycle" by software, changing the basic use for the main home computer (PC) from gaming to router or printer server (in SOHO configurations). From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Sep 23 15:39:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: HP 9000/C160 Message-ID: I've managed to pick up a memory-less HP C110 that was upgraded to a C160. Looking at Kingston's site, they want way too much for new memory for it. Does anyone have extra memory, or a source for memory? I've also got an HP Apollo 715/50 - is that memory compatible? Thanks for the help! -- Pat From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Sep 23 15:54:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: HP 9000/C160 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've managed to pick up a memory-less HP C110 that was upgraded to a > C160. Looking at Kingston's site, they want way too much for new memory > for it. Does anyone have extra memory, or a source for memory? I've also > got an HP Apollo 715/50 - is that memory compatible? > > Thanks for the help! > > -- Pat > > 715 memory is not compatible with C110 memory. You should be able to find cheaper memory from one of the HP re-sellers. A friend of mine with a C110 did that and I dont think he paid more than $50 or so for 256M... Another (perhaps cheaper) option is finding another C110... Peter Wallace From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Sep 23 15:58:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: your RL02 problems In-Reply-To: References: <1443120754.20020916081649@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020923160122.01b0ebe0@ubanproductions.com> Pat, How is your RL02 effort going? Are you done with my terminator yet? --tom From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Sep 23 16:03:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: your RL02 problems In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020923160122.01b0ebe0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > Pat, > > How is your RL02 effort going? Are you done with my terminator yet? I haven't had much time to play with it lately. I'm pretty sure that it's either a bad controller or drive. I'll try to get your terminator sent back to you in the next couple days - could you send me your address again so I don't have to go looking for it? Thanks. -- Pat From hansp at aconit.org Mon Sep 23 16:08:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: <000f01c2620e$a4338820$0100a8c0@voyager3> <20020922194716.A8628@eskimo.eskimo.com> <002701c262ca$cdeef2a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> <20020923004948.A18993@eskimo.eskimo.com> <009c01c262df$e8597100$8301a8c0@george> <20020923023642.A23209@eskimo.eskimo.com> <00cb01c26327$ae02f920$0100a8c0@voyager3> Message-ID: <3D8F82F6.1070504@aconit.org> Voyager wrote: >>More than one person on the list has the early issues (in paper format). >>Can you describe where in each issue to find the figures? > Difficult to know. It's in the editorial or in aricles. I cannot tell, as I > do not have any of these issues. I've got some PCW of 1986 if I recall, but > not the rest :-( I have PCW all the way back to the first issue in 1976. I can look but I don't recall seeing any figures of the sort you are looking for. There again, I've been concentrating on the very early issues. Ill look at the early 80's and see what I can find. -- hbp From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Mon Sep 23 17:21:00 2002 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Wanted: HP 3421A Data Acquisition/Control Unit Message-ID: <200209232222.SAA27644@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Hi, I am looking for an HP 3421A with a digital I/O assembly and/or the Multiplexer Assembly (preferably both). Thanks **vp From wonko at 4amlunch.net Mon Sep 23 17:27:00 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: StorageTek 9708 Tape library Message-ID: <20020923182724.C1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> does anyone know anything about these? does anyone have docs? i'd love to get mine setup and working, but i can't seem to figure out details. like for instance, there is a db25 on the back, and the robot doesn't show up as a scsi id, are the robots on these things serial controlled? docs would be best. thanks all!!! -brian -- "Hope you don't have much traffic then... ya turn on any feature in a crisco and you tax the hell outta the cpu..don't be so cruel to that little 68030, he never did anything to hurt you. Really, he loves you and just wants to shovel the bits around. meanie" Derrick D. Daugherty From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 23 17:43:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 lives! Message-ID: <20020923224537.APA12589.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Greetings to all -- About a year ago, Joe Rigdon very kindly gave me a number of old machines (thanks, Joe!), among them a Xerox 820. At the time he gave it to me, the unit didn't power up, but today I finally found the time to give it a second look. After I reconnected a loose lead inside the box it came to life! This is my only machine with 8" disk drives, so I'm interested in finding a good use for it. I could use some help from the list members, though. I found *no* technical data via Google, and have *no* real docs for this beast. After poking at the 820 for a bit, here's where I'm at: --> The "B" drive is faulty. Disk initialization fails, and it will not consistently read disks created on the "A" drive. Any pointers on replacement drives? Even if a thorough cleaning revives this drive, I'd like to obtain a spare. --> Assuming I can't revive the "B" drive or find a replacement, how can I duplicate diskettes? The CP/M utilities all seem to want two drives in order to do their job. --> Two of the boot diskettes which I have boot up a pretty normal looking version of CP/M 2.2, with a normal "A>" prompt, but another diskette displays the following upon boot: "Good Day! ZCPR 2.04 SYSTEM READY" and the prompt is "A0>" (obviously user group 0). What is this "ZCPR"? --> Some of the utilities on the boot diskettes (FMT, for example) refer to hard disk drives. What's involved in attaching a hard drive to this system? --> The flimsy "User Manual" which I have states that the RS232 port may be configured to attach to a terminal or to a modem. How? --> Lastly, does anyone have any documentation on this thing? If you can part with it, I'd be glad to pay a fair price. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Although this system doesn't appear to be special or unique, it does seem to be a sort of nice, friendly critter, and I'd like to put it into use. Later -- Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 23 18:04:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 lives! In-Reply-To: <20020923224537.APA12589.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020923190815.301fff2c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hey Glen, That's good news. I never got around to testing that 820. I did have a box of disks and docs for the 820s but maybe Mike or someone else got it. ZCPR is a replacement command processor for CPM. In simple terms, it is to CPM what DR DOS was to MS DOS. It should run all the normal CPM commands plus others. I'm using an enhanced version of ZCPR on my SB-180. I have a printout of a help file that you can borrow or I can copy the file the next time that I have the SB-180 setup and running. BTW ZCPR usually includes on-line help. Try typing in HELP and see if it's there. You should be able to find info on ZCPR on the net. I know that I did when I first got the SB-180. There's also a book called "ZCPR, The Manual" by Richard Kahn (sp?). I had a copy but it didn't tell any more than what the disk help files did. I think I gave that book to Bob Rief but he can't find it. What kind of drive is in the 820? Joe At 06:43 PM 9/23/02 -0400, you wrote: >Greetings to all -- > >About a year ago, Joe Rigdon very kindly gave me a number of old machines >(thanks, Joe!), among them a Xerox 820. At the time he gave it to me, the >unit didn't power up, but today I finally found the time to give it a >second look. After I reconnected a loose lead inside the box it came to >life! This is my only machine with 8" disk drives, so I'm interested in >finding a good use for it. > >I could use some help from the list members, though. I found *no* >technical data via Google, and have *no* real docs for this beast. After >poking at the 820 for a bit, here's where I'm at: > >--> The "B" drive is faulty. Disk initialization fails, and it will not >consistently read disks created on the "A" drive. Any pointers on >replacement drives? Even if a thorough cleaning revives this drive, I'd >like to obtain a spare. > >--> Assuming I can't revive the "B" drive or find a replacement, how can I >duplicate diskettes? The CP/M utilities all seem to want two drives in >order to do their job. > >--> Two of the boot diskettes which I have boot up a pretty normal looking >version of CP/M 2.2, with a normal "A>" prompt, but another diskette >displays the following upon boot: > >"Good Day! ZCPR 2.04 SYSTEM READY" > >and the prompt is "A0>" (obviously user group 0). What is this "ZCPR"? > >--> Some of the utilities on the boot diskettes (FMT, for example) refer to >hard disk drives. What's involved in attaching a hard drive to this >system? > >--> The flimsy "User Manual" which I have states that the RS232 port may be >configured to attach to a terminal or to a modem. How? > >--> Lastly, does anyone have any documentation on this thing? If you can >part with it, I'd be glad to pay a fair price. > >Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Although this system >doesn't appear to be special or unique, it does seem to be a sort of nice, >friendly critter, and I'd like to put it into use. > >Later -- > >Glen >0/0 > >If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? >And if not now, when? >-- Pirkei Avot > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 23 18:40:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:31 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <3D8F82F6.1070504@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > I have PCW all the way back to the first issue in 1976. I can look but I Errr,... The IBM PC came out in August 1981. Later, PC magazine was created. Then, disgruntled (are there every any gruntled?) staff from PC formed PC World magazine. Did you mean 1986? Or was there a different PCW? Or did they manage to put out issues before their subject came out? From menadeau at attbi.com Mon Sep 23 19:07:00 2002 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: Message-ID: <008701c2635c$e8858240$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> It's a British publication--Personal Computer World. Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 7:40 PM Subject: Re: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's > On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > > I have PCW all the way back to the first issue in 1976. I can look but I > > Errr,... > The IBM PC came out in August 1981. > Later, PC magazine was created. > Then, disgruntled (are there every any gruntled?) staff from PC formed PC > World magazine. > > Did you mean 1986? > Or was there a different PCW? > Or did they manage to put out issues before their subject came out? > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Sep 23 19:13:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Fw: sun equipment free to any home! (other side of the pond!) Message-ID: <009701c2635f$3bf4ff30$97469280@george> As seen on port-sparc at netbsd.org Please note location... Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg MATTHEWS" To: Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 6:00 AM Subject: sun equipment free to any home! > my department is about to send an awful lot of old sun stuff to landfill. lots > of monitors (not multi-sync) ipcs ipxs and classics. if you can collect you > can take away. i have cleared this provisionally with my line manager. > > no warrentee on anything, has to go asap. > > GREG > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Greg Matthews tel: 020 7679 3668 > Networks and Multimedia Group fax: 020 7387 1397 > Department of Computer Science > University College London > ------------------------------------------------------- > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 23 19:14:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <20020922194716.A8628@eskimo.eskimo.com> from "Derek Peschel" at Sep 22, 2 07:47:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 866 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020923/f1178fcd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 23 19:14:21 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <00cb01c26327$ae02f920$0100a8c0@voyager3> from "Voyager" at Sep 23, 2 08:26:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 380 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020923/f89203ea/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 23 19:15:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Or you could ask intel their production and sales numbers for > > 80x86 microprocessors. > > The problem with that approach is that 80x86 processors ended up in many > more things than just computers: phone systems for one. That's why I said: "The total number of "compatibles" is gonna be about the intel production, plus the production of competing chip companies, minus chips used for other non "compatible" 80x86 devices." What would you guess the ratio of PCs to other 80x86 devices would be? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred From donm at cts.com Mon Sep 23 19:18:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 lives! In-Reply-To: <20020923224537.APA12589.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Greetings to all -- > > About a year ago, Joe Rigdon very kindly gave me a number of old machines > (thanks, Joe!), among them a Xerox 820. At the time he gave it to me, the > unit didn't power up, but today I finally found the time to give it a > second look. After I reconnected a loose lead inside the box it came to > life! This is my only machine with 8" disk drives, so I'm interested in > finding a good use for it. > > I could use some help from the list members, though. I found *no* > technical data via Google, and have *no* real docs for this beast. After > poking at the 820 for a bit, here's where I'm at: First off, Glen, is it an 820 or an 820-II? Since you have been in to it, you should recall whether there is a daughter card that plugs in vertically in the right rear quadrant of the motherboard. If it is there, you have an 820-II. If not, it is an 820 and only capable of read/write SSSD disks, and the drives are likely Shugart SA-800s. The 820-II is DSDD capable and likely has SA-850s. > --> The "B" drive is faulty. Disk initialization fails, and it will not > consistently read disks created on the "A" drive. Any pointers on > replacement drives? Even if a thorough cleaning revives this drive, I'd > like to obtain a spare. Make sure that the heads are clean and that the guide rails for the head assembly are clean and VERY LIGHTLY lubricated. > --> Assuming I can't revive the "B" drive or find a replacement, how can I > duplicate diskettes? The CP/M utilities all seem to want two drives in > order to do their job. There is a program named MFT45.COM (also MFT48.COM) that is capable of single drive copy. It is a little tedious because of disk jockeying, but it does do the job. MFT stands for Multiple File Transfer. > --> Two of the boot diskettes which I have boot up a pretty normal looking > version of CP/M 2.2, with a normal "A>" prompt, but another diskette > displays the following upon boot: > > "Good Day! ZCPR 2.04 SYSTEM READY" > > and the prompt is "A0>" (obviously user group 0). What is this "ZCPR"? Joe covered this pretty well. > --> Some of the utilities on the boot diskettes (FMT, for example) refer to > hard disk drives. What's involved in attaching a hard drive to this > system? If an 820, it is not a particularly reasonable thing to try. If an 820-II, easy if you can find the Xerox add ons. Rather more difficult otherwise. > --> The flimsy "User Manual" which I have states that the RS232 port may be > configured to attach to a terminal or to a modem. How? Probably switching the port from DTE to DCE pinout. > --> Lastly, does anyone have any documentation on this thing? If you can > part with it, I'd be glad to pay a fair price. Cannot help there. - don > Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Although this system > doesn't appear to be special or unique, it does seem to be a sort of nice, > friendly critter, and I'd like to put it into use. > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 > > If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? > And if not now, when? > -- Pirkei Avot > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Sep 23 19:18:29 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <008701c2635c$e8858240$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Michael Nadeau wrote: > It's a British publication--Personal Computer World. The US "Personal Computer World" (aka PCW) was a giant. Is the British one affiliated with it, or independent? Did IT come out 5 years before the IBM "Personal Computer"? From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 23 19:33:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Or you could ask intel their production and sales numbers for > > > 80x86 microprocessors. > > > > The problem with that approach is that 80x86 processors ended up in many > > more things than just computers: phone systems for one. > > That's why I said: > > "The total number of "compatibles" is gonna be about the intel production, > plus the production of competing chip companies, minus chips used for > other non "compatible" 80x86 devices." > > What would you guess the ratio of PCs to other 80x86 devices would be? I would venture to guess that 10% of all 80x86 CPUs produced went into non-computers. I wouldn't be surprised if the ratio was higher (or lower for that matter :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From menadeau at attbi.com Mon Sep 23 19:35:00 2002 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: Message-ID: <00af01c26360$c1cf6540$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> No relation to PC World, which was launched by a disgruntled PC Magazine staff that jumped ship when the publication was sold to Ziff-Davis. And no, it wasn't an IBM PC-specific pub. See this eBay listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2056499916. Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's > On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > It's a British publication--Personal Computer World. > > The US "Personal Computer World" (aka PCW) was a giant. Is the British > one affiliated with it, or independent? > Did IT come out 5 years before the IBM "Personal Computer"? > From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Sep 23 19:55:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: StorageTek 9708 Tape library In-Reply-To: <20020923182724.C1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020923175451.02bfc170@mail.zipcon.net> the robot isn't controlled via the '232 port, that is for diagnostics and maintenance. you need to have software that recognizes the robot. I set up a couple of 97xx series libraries a few years back for Experience Music Project. we used a Clariion branded LVM (Library volume manager) that, in conjunction with a raid array made the tape drive look like a 17 terabyte disk :) At 06:27 PM 9/23/02 -0400, you wrote: >does anyone know anything about these? does anyone have docs? i'd love >to get >mine setup and working, but i can't seem to figure out details. like for >instance, there is a db25 on the back, and the robot doesn't show up as a scsi >id, are the robots on these things serial controlled? > >docs would be best. > >thanks all!!! > >-brian >-- >"Hope you don't have much traffic then... ya turn on any feature in a >crisco and you tax the hell outta the cpu..don't be so cruel to that >little 68030, he never did anything to hurt you. Really, he loves you >and just wants to shovel the bits around. meanie" Derrick D. Daugherty From dancohoe at oxford.net Mon Sep 23 20:57:00 2002 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 lives! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020923190815.301fff2c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000501c2636d$a99d5240$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 7:08 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Xerox 820 lives! > > > Hey Glen, > > That's good news. I never got around to testing that 820. > I did have a box of disks and docs for the 820s but maybe > Mike or someone else got it. ZCPR is a replacement command > processor for CPM. In simple terms, it is to CPM what DR DOS > was to MS DOS. It should run all the normal CPM commands > plus others. I'm using an enhanced version of ZCPR on my > SB-180. I have a printout of a help file that you can borrow > or I can copy the file the next time that I have the SB-180 > setup and running. BTW ZCPR usually includes on-line help. > Try typing in HELP and see if it's there. You should be able > to find info on ZCPR on the net. I know that I did when I > first got the SB-180. There's also a book called "ZCPR, The > Manual" by Richard Kahn (sp?). I had a copy but it didn't > tell any more than what the disk help files did. I think I > gave that book to Bob Rief but he can't find it. > > What kind of drive is in the 820? > > Joe > > At 06:43 PM 9/23/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Greetings to all -- > > > >About a year ago, Joe Rigdon very kindly gave me a number of > old machines > >(thanks, Joe!), among them a Xerox 820. At the time he gave > it to me, the > >unit didn't power up, but today I finally found the time to give it a > >second look. After I reconnected a loose lead inside the > box it came to > >life! This is my only machine with 8" disk drives, so I'm > interested in > >finding a good use for it. > > > >I could use some help from the list members, though. I found *no* > >technical data via Google, and have *no* real docs for this > beast. After > >poking at the 820 for a bit, here's where I'm at: > > > >--> The "B" drive is faulty. Disk initialization fails, and > it will not > >consistently read disks created on the "A" drive. Any pointers on > >replacement drives? Even if a thorough cleaning revives > this drive, I'd > >like to obtain a spare. > > > >--> Assuming I can't revive the "B" drive or find a > replacement, how can I > >duplicate diskettes? The CP/M utilities all seem to want > two drives in > >order to do their job. > > > >--> Two of the boot diskettes which I have boot up a pretty > normal looking > >version of CP/M 2.2, with a normal "A>" prompt, but another diskette > >displays the following upon boot: > > > >"Good Day! ZCPR 2.04 SYSTEM READY" > > > >and the prompt is "A0>" (obviously user group 0). What is > this "ZCPR"? > > > >--> Some of the utilities on the boot diskettes (FMT, for > example) refer to > >hard disk drives. What's involved in attaching a hard drive to this > >system? > > > >--> The flimsy "User Manual" which I have states that the > RS232 port may be > >configured to attach to a terminal or to a modem. How? > > > >--> Lastly, does anyone have any documentation on this > thing? If you can > >part with it, I'd be glad to pay a fair price. > > > >Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Although this system > >doesn't appear to be special or unique, it does seem to be a > sort of nice, > >friendly critter, and I'd like to put it into use. > > > >Later -- > > > >Glen > >0/0 > > > >If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? > >And if not now, when? > >-- Pirkei Avot > > > > > Glen, I have a very complete set of docs and software that I received in the last month for the Xerox 820. The package included several 820's and at bunch of Televideo TS803's as well as Z80 development systems (ZDS-1, with complete hardware and the documentation). It includes ZCPR3 software and the manual Joe refers to above (by Richard Conn). I don't have the space or time to even take some of the stuff out of the boxes right now, but when I do I can make some copies of the diskettes. I hope to look around at what documents should be scanned since I've recently had some good results with the autofeed photocopier/scanner at the office. What do you need? Immediately, its probably easier for me to scan stuff than to attempt to copy diskettes. Dan Cohoe From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Sep 23 22:59:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: StorageTek 9708 Tape library In-Reply-To: <20020923182724.C1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Brian Hechinger wrote: > does anyone know anything about these? does anyone have docs? i'd love to get > mine setup and working, but i can't seem to figure out details. like for > instance, there is a db25 on the back, and the robot doesn't show up as a scsi > id, are the robots on these things serial controlled? > > docs would be best. Heh. My boss just pulled ST's ass out of a 1/2-million-dollar crack, AND made them another $million sale while he was at it. When I get home I'll see if I can lean a little. Doc PS - Remind me Saturday. From wonko at 4amlunch.net Mon Sep 23 23:15:01 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: StorageTek 9708 Tape library In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020923175451.02bfc170@mail.zipcon.net>; from geoffr@zipcon.net on Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 05:57:36PM -0700 References: <20020923182724.C1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020923175451.02bfc170@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20020924001556.I1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 05:57:36PM -0700, Geoff Reed wrote: > the robot isn't controlled via the '232 port, that is for diagnostics and > maintenance. do you know the info for that port? 9600,8n1? DTE or not? etc. > you need to have software that recognizes the robot. I set > up a couple of 97xx series libraries a few years back for Experience Music > Project. so it's not just a "regular scsi device" then? my SPARCstation LX running NetBSD 1.6 certainly can't see the robot, although it sees the drives just fine. do you know where to find the special software to run this thing? StorageTek seems to think this thing never existed. > we used a Clariion branded LVM (Library volume manager) that, in > conjunction with a raid array made the tape drive look like a 17 terabyte > disk :) oh, that's too cool. -brian -- " My brain's like the US Postal Service, with Carrot-top as Postmaster General." From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Sep 24 00:35:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Pixel Machines Message-ID: There's a AT&T/Pixel Machines model 964d 'video thing' down at university salvage, and I was wondering if anyone had any information on them. It appears to have been produced in 1989 by an offshoot of AT&T called "Pixel Machines". Using google, the only result I can get that matches "Pixel Machines" and 964 or 964d is a thesis of some sort, which doesn't have a whole lot of useful information on the beast. As far as I can tell, it's some sort of redering/raytracing 'thing', and from its outputs, it appears like it might output NTSC video. I'm not sure yet if I want to bother lugging it up here - it's about 2ft x 2ft x 1ft in size, and looks like it might weigh as much as a small car. Thanks for any information you guys can turn up, -- Pat From emu at ecubics.com Tue Sep 24 00:48:22 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Pixel Machines References: Message-ID: <3D8FFE51.A36B7047@ecubics.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > There's a AT&T/Pixel Machines model 964d 'video thing' down at university > salvage, and I was wondering if anyone had any information on them. Yes, but it is in german ;-) > It > appears to have been produced in 1989 by an offshoot of AT&T called "Pixel > Machines". Using google, the only result I can get that matches "Pixel > Machines" and 964 or 964d is a thesis of some sort, which doesn't have a > whole lot of useful information on the beast. As far as I can tell, it's > some sort of redering/raytracing 'thing', and from its outputs, it appears > like it might output NTSC video. It is a very interesting thing. Someking of a multiprocessor system for rendering pictures. A lot of research was doen on this thing. And few nice algorithms were found ... > I'm not sure yet if I want to bother lugging it up here - it's about > 2ft x 2ft x 1ft in size, and looks like it might weigh as much as a small > car. Would be bad to loose something like this to the dumpster, but paying shipping, ... What do you think, how heavy it really is ? cheers From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Sep 24 00:55:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: StorageTek 9708 Tape library In-Reply-To: <20020924001556.I1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020923175451.02bfc170@mail.zipcon.net> <20020923182724.C1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020923175451.02bfc170@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020923225639.027ad7f0@mail.zipcon.net> I will see if I still have any of my contacts from back then's cards/email, etc.... it was a sweet setup. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Tue Sep 24 01:10:01 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: StorageTek 9708 Tape library References: <20020923182724.C1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020923175451.02bfc170@mail.zipcon.net> <20020924001556.I1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: <3D9001F0.B879AB1D@naffnet.org.uk> Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 05:57:36PM -0700, Geoff Reed wrote: > > so it's not just a "regular scsi device" then? my SPARCstation LX running > NetBSD 1.6 certainly can't see the robot, although it sees the drives just > fine. Can it see the robot from Open Boot (i.e. when it's not running NTSC)? From the Open Boot "ok" prompt, try the command "proboscis" (no quotes, of course) and see what happens. Good luck, Dave. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Tue Sep 24 01:14:01 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: StorageTek 9708 Tape library References: <20020923182724.C1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020923175451.02bfc170@mail.zipcon.net> <20020924001556.I1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> <3D9001F0.B879AB1D@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <3D900305.77FF459C@naffnet.org.uk> "Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk" wrote: Spellchecker got me !!!! I'll try again, although I like the way it mangled the message... > Brian Hechinger wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 05:57:36PM -0700, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > > so it's not just a "regular scsi device" then? my SPARCstation LX running > > NetBSD 1.6 certainly can't see the robot, although it sees the drives just > > fine. > > Can it see the robot from OpenBoot (i.e. when it's not running NetBSD)? From > the Open Boot "ok" prompt, try the command "proboscis" (no quotes, of course) > and see what happens. > > Good luck, > > Dave. Can it see the robot from OpenBoot (i.e. when it's not running NetBSD)? From the OpenBoot "ok" prompt, try the command "probe-scsi" (no quotes, of course) and see what happens. Good luck, Dave. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Sep 24 01:19:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: StorageTek 9708 Tape library In-Reply-To: <20020924001556.I1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 05:57:36PM -0700, Geoff Reed wrote: > > the robot isn't controlled via the '232 port, that is for diagnostics and > > maintenance. > > do you know the info for that port? 9600,8n1? DTE or not? etc. > > > you need to have software that recognizes the robot. I set > > up a couple of 97xx series libraries a few years back for Experience Music > > Project. > > so it's not just a "regular scsi device" then? my SPARCstation LX running > NetBSD 1.6 certainly can't see the robot, although it sees the drives just > fine. > > do you know where to find the special software to run this thing? > StorageTek seems to think this thing never existed. It looks like Tivoli's (IBM's) TSM supports it, and I'd imagine that VERITAS NetBackup supports it as well (on the operating systems their server software supports). Both TSM and NetBackup have command-line utilities for manually manipulating the robotics and drives of these sorts of devices. I'd have to double-check, but it may be possible to run these tools independently of having licensed server software. > > we used a Clariion branded LVM (Library volume manager) that, in > > conjunction with a raid array made the tape drive look like a 17 terabyte > > disk :) > > oh, that's too cool. Not quite as cool as my 135TB LTO based ADIC Scalar 10K which does the same! My job is all about designing and operating massive storage systems. -brian. From voyager at hol.gr Tue Sep 24 02:03:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: Message-ID: <007501c26398$0e6d0600$0100a8c0@voyager3> OK, let's see, how is possible to change the CPU of the ZX Spectrum 48K (the rubber keyd version) to get double/triple the performance? how could I have no 48K but 1MB instead? How could I mount a CDROM or Hard disk? Could I change my old floppy drive( no "sinclair" floppies existed for the ZX48K) to a new larger one? Let's say, I need a better resolution on graphics, and 3 channel sound generator. Upgrading from my point of view, and I guess you would agree with me, is something that can be done by (almost) everyday people, at very *VERY* reasonable cost, and not by nerds or extreme hobbyist (like myself). "Upgrading" should not need an Electronic Engineering degree. Only modular systems, and with a lot of hardware options and development through time, could be considered "Upgrade-friendly", like the PC or the Apple-II. Amigas were a different case, I am reffering mostly to 80's 8bit home computers, and not the 16/32bit monsters :-) From: "Tony Duell" > > I want to point out, what happen to the home computers, and that it's > > impossible to upgrade them, anyway, and the only solution/destination is > > COme again? "It's impossible to upgrade home computers"??? I guess that's > total news to me, and to many others on this list (who have machines > expanded and modified _way_ beyond what the manufacturers ever intended). > > -tony > From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Sep 24 02:07:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: StorageTek 9708 Tape library In-Reply-To: References: <20020924001556.I1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020924000847.030484b0@mail.zipcon.net> At 11:20 PM 9/23/02 -0700, you wrote: >Not quite as cool as my 135TB LTO based ADIC Scalar 10K which does the >same! My job is all about designing and operating massive storage >systems. You lucky bastage :) I had the MOST fun getting that up and running :) From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Sep 24 04:20:01 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 2002 17:18:45 PDT." Message-ID: <200209240821.JAA12361@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" said: > On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > It's a British publication--Personal Computer World. > > The US "Personal Computer World" (aka PCW) was a giant. Is the British > one affiliated with it, or independent? > Did IT come out 5 years before the IBM "Personal Computer"? 3 years actually. I've still got issue No. 1. dated 1978. AFAIK there's no connection with the US magazine, the British one was published by A. Zgorelec and proudly claimed to be "Europe's first magazine for personal computers." It grew to be Britains biggest computer magazine - literally, many issues were over an inch thick, but now it's a shadow of its former self. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Sep 24 06:55:01 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <007501c26398$0e6d0600$0100a8c0@voyager3> from "Voyager" at Sep 24, 02 10:00:23 am Message-ID: <200209241154.HAA08803@wordstock.com> And thusly Voyager spake: > > OK, let's see, how is possible to change the CPU of the ZX Spectrum 48K (the > rubber keyd version) to get double/triple the performance? how could I have > no 48K but 1MB instead? How could I mount a CDROM or Hard disk? > Could I change my old floppy drive( no "sinclair" floppies existed for the > ZX48K) to a new larger one? Let's say, I need a better resolution on > graphics, and 3 channel sound generator. > > Upgrading from my point of view, and I guess you would agree with me, is > something that can be done by (almost) everyday people, at very *VERY* > reasonable cost, and not by nerds or extreme hobbyist (like myself). > "Upgrading" should not need an Electronic Engineering degree. > > Only modular systems, and with a lot of hardware options and development > through time, could be considered "Upgrade-friendly", like the PC or the > Apple-II. Amigas were a different case, I am reffering mostly to 80's 8bit > home computers, and not the 16/32bit monsters :-) > > It is possible to upgrade the CPU on a Commodore 64 or 128. The SuperCPUs ae still being sold today. You can also double the number of voices you get from the SID chip and get stereo sound. Upgrading the graphics is a different store though... Cheers, Bryan From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Sep 24 07:23:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: AES CPM on E-Pay In-Reply-To: References: <3D8E757D.22650.640CE2@localhost> Message-ID: <3D8FFAC1.18317.654DB40@localhost> > On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > An interesting early CPM computer, complete with monitor and fdds. AES is > > Automatic Electronic Systems, a Montreal company that was founded by > > Stephen Dorsey who then sold the company and went on to found Micom. > > He put out a remarkable Word Processor/computer called the MICOM 2000 > > before the Apple got out of Woz's garage. AES must have mfrd. this after > > Dorsey sold it. No date given but likely pre 80. Wish I could afford it. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2056611909 > > Well, if he claims to be pre-Apple, then I certainly hope that it is > pre-80! > > Is this the "Lanier"? > > Wait until you check out the disk format and/or try to transfer files to > or from. :-) > Nope MICOM Data Systems, which was bought out by Philips in 79. Mine uses a Shugart 8" SS. There are several companies that do conversion of MICOM files, Shaftstall Corp, among others. Interestingly they also do AES and Lanier. NASA had a couple of hundred of the MICOM 2000s. Don't know the date that AES brought out the box for sale on E-pay but it was certainly after Dorsey sold the firm. This wasn't Dorsey's "claim". I got it from : TIMELINE OF MICROCOMPUTER HISTORY................Poulsson 1972 Intel introduces its 200-KHz 8008 chip, the first 8-bit microprocessor. Atari is founded and ships Pong, the first commercial video game. Canada's Automatic Electronic Systems introduces the world's first programmable word processor with a video screen, the AES 90. The computer system uses magnetic disks for storage, and a custom-built microprocessor. [615.94] Bill Gates and Paul Allen form the Traf-O-Data company. 5.25 inch diskettes first appear. Xerox decides to build a personal computer to be used for research. Project "Alto" begins. [263.58] March (75) Fred Moore and Gordon French hold the first meeting of a new microcomputer hobbyist's club in French's garage, in Menlo Park, California. 32 people meet, including Bob Albrect, Steve Dompier, Lee Felsenstein, Bob Marsh, Tom Pittman, Marty Spergel, Alan Baum, and Steven Wozniak. Bob Albrect shows off an Altair, and Steve Dompier reports on MITS, and how they had 4000 orders for the Altair. [185.110] [266.104] [301.55] [346.18] [353.200] [346.257] (April [208.67] 266.39) Stephen Dorsey, founder of Automatic Electronic Systems, sells his 25% of the company for $135,000. [615.98] Stephen Dorsey and Louis Miller found Micom Data Systems, in Canada. [615.90] July (75) Bill Gates and Paul Allen sign a licensing agreement with MITS, for their implementation of the BASIC language. [299.8] Bill Gates and Paul Allen ship 4K and 8K version of BASIC v2.0. [123] Dick Heiser opens Arrow Head Computer Company, subtitled "The Computer Store", in Los Angeles, selling assembled Altairs, boards, peripherals, and magazines. This is the first retail computer store in the USA. [266.185] [684.41] Micom Data Systems ships its first product, the Micom 2000 word processing computer. [615.99] September (75) The first issue of Byte magazine is published. [9] [266.159] March (76) Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs finish work on a computer circuit board, that they call the Apple I computer. [46] By the end of its first year in business, Micom Data Systems ships 180 Micom 2000 computers, worth $2 million. [615.99] ( Poulssen's source was : [615] Knights of the New Technology - The Inside Story of Canada's Computer Elite, by David Thomas, 1983.) Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From at258 at osfn.org Tue Sep 24 08:14:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: StorageTek 9708 Tape library In-Reply-To: <20020923182724.C1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: Brian, is this the BIG one? On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Brian Hechinger wrote: > does anyone know anything about these? does anyone have docs? i'd love to get > mine setup and working, but i can't seem to figure out details. like for > instance, there is a db25 on the back, and the robot doesn't show up as a scsi > id, are the robots on these things serial controlled? > > docs would be best. > > thanks all!!! > > -brian > -- > "Hope you don't have much traffic then... ya turn on any feature in a > crisco and you tax the hell outta the cpu..don't be so cruel to that > little 68030, he never did anything to hurt you. Really, he loves you > and just wants to shovel the bits around. meanie" Derrick D. Daugherty > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Tue Sep 24 08:19:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 lives! In-Reply-To: <20020923224537.APA12589.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: The 820, is, I think, my favourite CP/M machine. They can be twitchy though, often stemming from dirty contacts on various cards. The floppy drive is a Shugart. So, as a matter of fact is the hard drive. The little 5-1/4's suck, they cripple the machine. I might have some Xerox manuals somewhere. They might be buried deep, though. Want me to look? WordStar runs very nicely on the 820. I used it for a number of years. Most common printer I've seen with it is the diablo 620. On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Greetings to all -- > > About a year ago, Joe Rigdon very kindly gave me a number of old machines > (thanks, Joe!), among them a Xerox 820. At the time he gave it to me, the > unit didn't power up, but today I finally found the time to give it a > second look. After I reconnected a loose lead inside the box it came to > life! This is my only machine with 8" disk drives, so I'm interested in > finding a good use for it. > > I could use some help from the list members, though. I found *no* > technical data via Google, and have *no* real docs for this beast. After > poking at the 820 for a bit, here's where I'm at: > > --> The "B" drive is faulty. Disk initialization fails, and it will not > consistently read disks created on the "A" drive. Any pointers on > replacement drives? Even if a thorough cleaning revives this drive, I'd > like to obtain a spare. > > --> Assuming I can't revive the "B" drive or find a replacement, how can I > duplicate diskettes? The CP/M utilities all seem to want two drives in > order to do their job. > > --> Two of the boot diskettes which I have boot up a pretty normal looking > version of CP/M 2.2, with a normal "A>" prompt, but another diskette > displays the following upon boot: > > "Good Day! ZCPR 2.04 SYSTEM READY" > > and the prompt is "A0>" (obviously user group 0). What is this "ZCPR"? > > --> Some of the utilities on the boot diskettes (FMT, for example) refer to > hard disk drives. What's involved in attaching a hard drive to this > system? > > --> The flimsy "User Manual" which I have states that the RS232 port may be > configured to attach to a terminal or to a modem. How? > > --> Lastly, does anyone have any documentation on this thing? If you can > part with it, I'd be glad to pay a fair price. > > Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Although this system > doesn't appear to be special or unique, it does seem to be a sort of nice, > friendly critter, and I'd like to put it into use. > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 > > If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? > And if not now, when? > -- Pirkei Avot > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Sep 24 08:51:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first Message-ID: <200209240650.37774.rhudson@cnonline.net> I have just been offered an altair computer, it's been sitting in the back of a garage, unused for some time. I don't want to just plug it in and power it up right away do I ? Inspect -- what am I looking for? Clean -- best method? It is described as "not having switches or blinking lights", having floppy disks, having been used for somthing to do with ham radio. This is in advance of actually getting the computer, From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 24 09:19:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: FA: RCA 1802 Cosmac computer and various Cosmac manuals Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020924102252.3fb78798@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> See From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 24 10:28:01 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 lives! Message-ID: <20020924152834.VCCG29935.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Don Maslin > First off, Glen, is it an 820 or an 820-II? Since you have been in to > it, you should recall whether there is a daughter card that plugs in > vertically in the right rear quadrant of the motherboard. If it is > there, you have an 820-II. Cool! It's an 820-II. > Make sure that the heads are clean and that the guide rails for the head > assembly are clean and VERY LIGHTLY lubricated. The drive is scheduled for a good cleaning this weekend ;>) > There is a program named MFT45.COM (also MFT48.COM) that is capable of > single drive copy. It is a little tedious because of disk jockeying, > but it does do the job. MFT stands for Multiple File Transfer. More cool -- I'll check the diskettes that came with it to see if this program is present. > > --> Some of the utilities on the boot diskettes (FMT, for example) refer to > > hard disk drives. What's involved in attaching a hard drive to this > > system? > > If an 820, it is not a particularly reasonable thing to try. If an > 820-II, easy if you can find the Xerox add ons. Rather more difficult > otherwise. Would you happen to know the model number of the Xerox external HDD unit? > > --> The flimsy "User Manual" which I have states that the RS232 port may be > > configured to attach to a terminal or to a modem. How? > > Probably switching the port from DTE to DCE pinout. Sure, but I'm reluctant to make any internal changes w/o docs. As always, thanks, Don! Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 24 10:28:37 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 lives! Message-ID: <20020924152846.VCHA29935.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Dan Cohoe > I have a very complete set of docs and software that I received in the last > month for the Xerox 820. > What do you need? Immediately, its probably easier for me to scan stuff than > to attempt to copy diskettes. This is good news! Whatever you can provide (at your convenience, of course) would be greatly appreciated. I'll be glad to pay for media, postage, etc. -- please let me know. Thanks, Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 24 10:28:57 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 lives! Message-ID: <20020924152853.VCKE29935.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Merle K. Peirce > The 820, is, I think, my favourite CP/M machine. Mind if I ask why? So far I still prefer my Kaypro 10, but my mind is always open ;>) > They can be twitchy > though, often stemming from dirty contacts on various cards. I'll keep that in mind. > I might have some Xerox manuals somewhere. They might be buried deep, > though. Want me to look? Only if it is convenient for you. > WordStar runs very nicely on the 820. I used > it for a number of years. Fortunately, I have WS 3.3, dBase II, and Multiplan. Anyway, thanks for the info. Glen 0/0 From kapteynr at cboe.com Tue Sep 24 11:15:01 2002 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first Message-ID: <72F57ECC9732D611815100A0C984ED9C7C8207@msx1.cboe.com> Good move -- don't plug it in yet. The biggest danger is that the electrolytic capacitors have depolarized. In that case, they could heat up and explode when you turn it it on. Search Google for "reforming electrolytic capacitors" and you get a lot of links. In any case, detach everything from the power supply and check it out first. Unfortunately, Altairs have no connectors for this, so you will have to desolder the wires. Some suggest powering it up slowly on a variable transformer, but I have not tried that. After checking out the power supply voltages, unplug all of the cards and power up the front panel only. Then do the same for the CPU, etc. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 8:51 AM To: Classic Computers Subject: Altair-what do I do first I have just been offered an altair computer, it's been sitting in the back of a garage, unused for some time. I don't want to just plug it in and power it up right away do I ? Inspect -- what am I looking for? Clean -- best method? It is described as "not having switches or blinking lights", having floppy disks, having been used for somthing to do with ham radio. This is in advance of actually getting the computer, From voyager at hol.gr Tue Sep 24 13:08:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: <200209241154.HAA08803@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <002c01c263f4$f0a1c9a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> Well, up to now, the only stats I got is: ZX80s aroung 70.000 pcs (ZX81s ~2.000.000 pcs) ??? ZX48K and ZX+ ~3.000.000 pcs QLs 100.000 pcs Orics: less than 300.000 for both Oric1 & Oric ATMOS. Any hints on the MSX market? the Commodores? From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Sep 24 13:18:01 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <002c01c263f4$f0a1c9a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> from "Voyager" at Sep 24, 02 09:05:14 pm Message-ID: <200209241816.OAA07090@wordstock.com> And thusly Voyager spake: > > Well, up to now, the only stats I got is: > ZX80s aroung 70.000 pcs > (ZX81s ~2.000.000 pcs) ??? > ZX48K and ZX+ ~3.000.000 pcs > QLs 100.000 pcs > Orics: less than 300.000 for both Oric1 & Oric ATMOS. > > Any hints on the MSX market? the Commodores? > This is from the 2002 Guinness Book of World Records: "About 30 million Commodore 64 computers were sold between the model's launch in 1982 and its commercial decline in 1993. The computer contained 64K RAM, 16K graphics, and 16K sound." :-D Cheers, Bryan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 24 13:20:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Pictures Re: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020920112941.4f970018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020924142418.56ef1f9e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'm still trying to find out where the 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drives came from. I finally got around to taking some pictures of the 2.4Mb floppy drive. This one is a picture of the front. This one is a picture of the plastic sled that it's mounted in. This is a picture of the back showing the Hitachi label and the connector that plugs into the system. This is a picture of the top of the bare drive. And here is a picture of the bottom. The sled has IBM PN 25F8398 on it. I've searched Google and IBM's site for the number but didn't find anything. I found these drives in the same pile with some IBM RS/6000 cards. Does anyone know if the RS/6000 uses anything like this? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 24 13:30:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020920112941.4f970018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020924143347.3fb7609c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:34 PM 9/20/02 -0700, Don wrote: > > >On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > >> I was scrounging around last week and found a pair of HH 5 1/4" >> floppy drives that are marked "2.4" next to a disk symbol on the >> front. Just out of curiousity I picked them up and checked >> and sure enough >> they're 2.4Mb floppy drives! I've never heard of these before. Does >> anyone know what the disk format is or where these are used? The >> drives are Hitachi model FD532EIU. The label on them says that they're >> made for IBM. They're in some sort of a plastic sled. > >Do these drives have the typical single stepper to position the heads, >Joe, or is there an additional "vernier stepper" to more closely >position them as was the case with the Drivetec and (later) Kodak >drives? Both of those required preformatted disks that contained servo >tracks. > Don, No it's looks like just a single stepper motor. I found a diskette in one of htem. It appears to be a standard disk. More about that in reponse to Will's message. Joe From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Sep 24 13:49:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: HP 9000/C160 Message-ID: Search eBay for A2580-60001. I think that is the correct part number for a 64MB module which works for this system. You can get a pair (128MB total) for $15 or less right now. >From: "Peter C. Wallace" >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Slightly OT: HP 9000/C160 >Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:55:33 -0700 (PDT) > >On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > I've managed to pick up a memory-less HP C110 that was upgraded to a > > C160. Looking at Kingston's site, they want way too much for new memory > > for it. Does anyone have extra memory, or a source for memory? I've >also > > got an HP Apollo 715/50 - is that memory compatible? > > > > Thanks for the help! > > > > -- Pat > > > > > >715 memory is not compatible with C110 memory. You should be able to find >cheaper memory from one of the HP re-sellers. A friend of mine with a C110 >did >that and I dont think he paid more than $50 or so for 256M... Another >(perhaps cheaper) option is finding another C110... > > > >Peter Wallace _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Sep 24 14:35:01 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: HP 9000/C160 References: Message-ID: <0de201c26401$98b77520$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> I have a large number of brand new 32mb modules for an HPD220, I am 90% certain these are the same modules used in C's and B's. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Slick" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Slightly OT: HP 9000/C160 > Search eBay for A2580-60001. I think that is the correct part number for a > 64MB module which works for this system. > > You can get a pair (128MB total) for $15 or less right now. > > > >From: "Peter C. Wallace" > >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Subject: Re: Slightly OT: HP 9000/C160 > >Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:55:33 -0700 (PDT) > > > >On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > > I've managed to pick up a memory-less HP C110 that was upgraded to a > > > C160. Looking at Kingston's site, they want way too much for new memory > > > for it. Does anyone have extra memory, or a source for memory? I've > >also > > > got an HP Apollo 715/50 - is that memory compatible? > > > > > > Thanks for the help! > > > > > > -- Pat > > > > > > > > > >715 memory is not compatible with C110 memory. You should be able to find > >cheaper memory from one of the HP re-sellers. A friend of mine with a C110 > >did > >that and I dont think he paid more than $50 or so for 256M... Another > >(perhaps cheaper) option is finding another C110... > > > > > > > >Peter Wallace > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From voyager at hol.gr Tue Sep 24 15:50:01 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: <200209241816.OAA07090@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <001201c2640b$9a185920$0100a8c0@voyager3> > This is from the 2002 Guinness Book of World Records: > "About 30 million Commodore 64 computers were sold between the model's > launch in 1982 and its commercial decline in 1993. The computer contained > 64K RAM, 16K graphics, and 16K sound." > Bryan I do not think so. The numbers I got are estimating for 12mil to 20mil including all international versions. Where did they got the 30mil figure from?! From menadeau at attbi.com Tue Sep 24 16:22:00 2002 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: <200209241154.HAA08803@wordstock.com> <002c01c263f4$f0a1c9a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> Message-ID: <000d01c2640e$efa6c900$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> I have a Sinclair press release that says it sold more than 100,000 ZX80s. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Voyager" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 2:05 PM Subject: Re: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's > Well, up to now, the only stats I got is: > ZX80s aroung 70.000 pcs > (ZX81s ~2.000.000 pcs) ??? > ZX48K and ZX+ ~3.000.000 pcs > QLs 100.000 pcs > Orics: less than 300.000 for both Oric1 & Oric ATMOS. > > Any hints on the MSX market? the Commodores? From voyager at hol.gr Tue Sep 24 16:31:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: <200209241154.HAA08803@wordstock.com> <002c01c263f4$f0a1c9a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> <000d01c2640e$efa6c900$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <005901c26411$474f5bc0$0100a8c0@voyager3> > I have a Sinclair press release that says it sold more than 100,000 ZX80s. > Could you send a copy please? I would be very interested. When is it dated? Sir Clive was notorius for giving false info on comercial issues :-) From msspcva at yahoo.com Tue Sep 24 16:48:00 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: RSX-11 Kermit Transfers In-Reply-To: <20020923154525.43309.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020924214904.85087.qmail@web14612.mail.yahoo.com> Ethan: On VMS there was an easier way to transfer files via kermit and still retain the files' attributes. The tecnique involved using VMS' backup utility to create a backup file save set with a record length of 8192 bytes and group=0 (no redundancy groups). You transfer that file over to the other system in fixed file mode - the result is a 512 byte record length binary file. You then on that system create a small backup save set with the same record size of 8192 bytes, and use copy/overlay to copy the transferred file over that newly created backup saveset. Viola, VMS recreates the file from the first system with the proper record structure, and you can then use backup/restore to get the files you transferred out and put them to use. Particularly useful when transferring Stream_LF file types I recall. -- Frank --- Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > > Christopher: > > > > It's been some time since I used an RSX11 Kermit, > > however... > > And I never did, but I used VMS Kermit a lot 10-15 > years ago, and > the problems/issues are similar (due to the > filesystem) > > > I believe there's another option on the RSX11 side > > called "fixed" as in "binary file fixed record > length > > of 512 bytes". > > Yes. Same as VMS. RMS (Record Management > Services), a library > that has no equivalent that I know of in UNIX or > Windows, understands > record-oriented files, not just sequences of bytes. > Text files, > object libraries and tasks/executables are all > different. > > > You may be ending up with variable record length > > binary file or a fixed length record size of 128 > bytes > > or something like that. > > Exactly. We used to run into this problem all the > time when I was > working customer support at SRC. With many of our > customers, it was > faster and simpler to mail them a 9-track tape than > talk them through > how to use Kermit (since we typically had to send > binary files). > > Programs are somewhat easy - as Larry said, 'set > file type fixed' on > the RSX end (or both, if appropriate) will tell RSX > (or VMS) Kermit > to open the file via RMS to the correct type for a > runnable program. > What will give you fits will be .OLB (Object > Library) files or any other > kind of file that has a complex record structure > (VMS Backup files?) > We resorted to a program called BACKPACK.EXE for > VMS. Think of it like > a UUENCODE for RMS files. It converts a binary file > to printable ASCII, > including RMS record metadata. > > ISTR, BACKPACK.EXE was written in FORTRAN, in case > anyone wants to > port it anywhere. Given that it only really helps > when moving things > from VMS<->VMS, etc., it probably won't help you > with your problem, > but I wanted to mention it as a period solution to > the worst-case > file transfer problem with complex files on a DEC > machine. > > > --- Christopher McNabb > > wrote: > > > Which kermit mode should be used when > transfering > > > files to an RSX-11 system using kermit, ASCII or > BINARY? > > > I realize this is normally based on the type > > > of the file, but when I xfer task files using > BINARY > > > I get this silly "not a valid task" message when > I try to > > > install or run the file. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! > http://sbc.yahoo.com ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 24 17:07:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <002c01c263f4$f0a1c9a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Voyager wrote: > Well, up to now, the only stats I got is: > ZX80s aroung 70.000 pcs > (ZX81s ~2.000.000 pcs) ??? I would think there would have been way more ZX81s produced. > Any hints on the MSX market? the Commodores? Commodore 64 - anywhere from 17 to 22 million Apple ][ - something like 17 million (combining all models of Apple ][ including ][, ][+, //e, //c, //c+, //gs). I think this information is online somewhere, either on Apple's website or on some of the history websites. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 24 17:09:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <200209241816.OAA07090@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > "About 30 million Commodore 64 computers were sold between the model's > launch in 1982 and its commercial decline in 1993. The computer > contained 64K RAM, 16K graphics, and 16K sound." That's contrary to every figure I've ever heard for the C64 production numbers. It's inflated by about 50-60%. Cameron Kaiser or Larry Anderson would be the guys to ask. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 24 17:10:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:32 2005 Subject: Pictures Re: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020924142418.56ef1f9e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > I'm still trying to find out where the 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drives > came from. I finally got around to taking some pictures of the 2.4Mb > floppy drive. This one > is a picture of the > front. This one is a > picture of the plastic sled that it's mounted in. This > is a picture of the > back showing the Hitachi label and the connector that plugs into the > system. This is a > picture of the top of the bare drive. And here > is a picture of the > bottom. The sled has IBM PN 25F8398 on it. I've searched Google and > IBM's site for the number but didn't find anything. I found these drives > in the same pile with some IBM RS/6000 cards. Does anyone know if the > RS/6000 uses anything like this? This does look like the drive from a 3174 Controller that someone else mentioned. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From at258 at osfn.org Tue Sep 24 17:19:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 lives! In-Reply-To: <20020924152853.VCKE29935.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: I love the keyboards, especially the old one. Also, the high disk capacity. It was always a joy to work with. Good that you have the software. Supposedly there is WordStar4 for it, but I don't think I've seen it. On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > From: Merle K. Peirce > > > The 820, is, I think, my favourite CP/M machine. > > Mind if I ask why? So far I still prefer my Kaypro 10, but my mind is > always open ;>) > > > They can be twitchy > > though, often stemming from dirty contacts on various cards. > > I'll keep that in mind. > > > I might have some Xerox manuals somewhere. They might be buried deep, > > though. Want me to look? > > Only if it is convenient for you. > > > WordStar runs very nicely on the 820. I used > > it for a number of years. > > Fortunately, I have WS 3.3, dBase II, and Multiplan. > > Anyway, thanks for the info. > > Glen > 0/0 > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Sep 24 17:41:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020924143347.3fb7609c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > No it's looks like just a single stepper motor. I found a diskette > in one of htem. It appears to be a standard disk. More about that in > reponse to Will's message. Assuming that it is a formatted, used diskette for that drive, (not just any-old diskette being used as a shipping head protector), then several things can be determined from it. What COLOR is the media? 360K and 1.2M (300 oerstedt v 600 oerstedt) are slightly different colors. 1.4M floppies v 2.8M (Barium Ferrite) are different colors. If the diskette is the same material as a 1.2M, then the 2.4M was probably achieved by going to 192 TPI, instead of 96 TPI, since that would use the same oerstedt media as 1.2M. OTOH, if it is a Barium Ferrite media, then it is probably still 96 TPI, but with twice the linear density on each track of a 1.2M. That would require a different media. Try write protecting the diskette and put it into a DOS machine. (the error messages from Windoze will hide all useful information) If it is readable (both DIRectory and files, then it is NOT a 2.4M diskette If part of the DIRectory is readable, but file access produces SECTOR NOT FOUND, or GENERAL FAILURE, or if you ever get SECTOR NOT FOUND, or SEEK ERROR. then it is almost certainly 192 TPI. If NOTHING is readable and produces General Failure (even first sectors of DIRectory - try "ignore"), then it could be either. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From donm at cts.com Tue Sep 24 18:04:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 lives! In-Reply-To: <20020924152834.VCCG29935.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > From: Don Maslin > > > First off, Glen, is it an 820 or an 820-II? Since you have been in to > > it, you should recall whether there is a daughter card that plugs in > > vertically in the right rear quadrant of the motherboard. If it is > > there, you have an 820-II. > > Cool! It's an 820-II. > > > Make sure that the heads are clean and that the guide rails for the head > > assembly are clean and VERY LIGHTLY lubricated. > > The drive is scheduled for a good cleaning this weekend ;>) > > > There is a program named MFT45.COM (also MFT48.COM) that is capable of > > single drive copy. It is a little tedious because of disk jockeying, > > but it does do the job. MFT stands for Multiple File Transfer. > > More cool -- I'll check the diskettes that came with it to see if this > program is present. > > > > --> Some of the utilities on the boot diskettes (FMT, for example) > refer to > > > hard disk drives. What's involved in attaching a hard drive to this > > > system? > > > > If an 820, it is not a particularly reasonable thing to try. If an > > 820-II, easy if you can find the Xerox add ons. Rather more difficult > > otherwise. > > Would you happen to know the model number of the Xerox external HDD unit? IIRC, it is an external cabinet called the Disk Expansion Module. Also contains a 5.25" drive. - don > > > --> The flimsy "User Manual" which I have states that the RS232 port > may be > > > configured to attach to a terminal or to a modem. How? > > > > Probably switching the port from DTE to DCE pinout. > > Sure, but I'm reluctant to make any internal changes w/o docs. > > As always, thanks, Don! > > Glen > 0/0 > > From menadeau at attbi.com Tue Sep 24 18:21:00 2002 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: <200209241154.HAA08803@wordstock.com> <002c01c263f4$f0a1c9a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> <000d01c2640e$efa6c900$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> <005901c26411$474f5bc0$0100a8c0@voyager3> Message-ID: <009801c2641f$8d40e780$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> > Sir Clive was notorius for giving false info on comercial issues :-) And how does that make him different from every other micro maker? I'd be happy to send you a copy of the press release. Send me your fax number off-list. It's a 23-page company fact sheet dated May 1982. Do you want it all or just the relevant pages? What is the source for your 70,000 figure? Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Voyager" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 5:28 PM Subject: Re: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's > > > > I have a Sinclair press release that says it sold more than 100,000 ZX80s. > > > Could you send a copy please? I would be very interested. When is it dated? > Sir Clive was notorius for giving false info on comercial issues :-) > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 24 18:38:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Quadri Core memory? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020924194216.618720ce@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I recently found what looked like a solid block of aluminium recently but on closer inspection it turned out to be a 64k x 18 core memory made by Quadri Corporation. It's part number is 1-0805-0015-02. It measures 1 1/2" x 6' x 9" and all the case parts are machined out of solid aluminium and it fits together so well that the joints are barely visible. It's very obviously military. It looks like it could survive WW III! I did some searching for Quadri and found that they used to be a manufacturer of high reliability core memory systems used in military aircraft, helicopters, tanks and other vehicles but they have been bought out by a company by the name of Agro-Tech and no longer exist. Does anyone know anything about the Quadri core memories or know anything about Quadri? Joe From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Sep 24 18:43:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Pictures Re: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive? In-Reply-To: Joe "Pictures Re: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive?" (Sep 24, 14:24) References: <3.0.6.16.20020920112941.4f970018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020924142418.56ef1f9e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10209242158.ZM13210@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 24, 14:24, Joe wrote: > I'm still trying to find out where the 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drives came from. > The sled has IBM PN 25F8398 on it. I've searched Google and IBM's site for the number but didn't find anything. I found these drives in the same pile with some IBM RS/6000 cards. Does anyone know if the RS/6000 uses anything like this? I'd never heard of a 5.25" 2.4MB floppy before this, but I know that some models of the RS/6000 range and I believe also some PS/2 range had so-called "2.88MB" 3.5" floppies. I have one here (the drive,that is, not the RS/6000). They look just like ordinary 3.5" HD floppies except for the extra media sensor. They can use normal DD or HD disks, or special ED disks which have the media sensor hole in a different place to HD disks -- it's slightly further from the bottom edge, so if you put an ED disk in an HD drive, it would be seen as DD. However, the coating is a special barium ferrite rather than the normal cobalt ferrite, and for ED, the drive uses a vertical recording technique developed by Toshiba instead of normal longitudinal recording. If the disk in the drive you've found looks just like a normal HD floppy, that's what it is -- not an Extra Density one. Apart from IBMs they were also used in 3Com Netbuilder routers. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Sep 24 18:48:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Fw: DEC PDP-11/73 in GA Message-ID: <009901c26425$02276920$8e469280@george> Anyone interested in checking this out? Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Olin" To: "Robert F. Schaefer" Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 10:41 PM Subject: Re: DEC PDP-11/73 > Hi again, Bob, > Sorry to bother you. You might remember I am the wife of the guy > who saved a VAX from the scrapheap earlier this month. Well, he went and > saved another DEC but I was wondering if you know anything about it. > It's a Digital PDP-11/73. I'm not sure about the dash in there. Anyway, > Dave said that it doesn't run the VMS software and it isn't the nice specimen that > the DEC 6000 was. But they were going to scrap it, so he paid the > scrap price and brought it home. He was able to transport it himself > without getting a UHaul, so he doesn't have much in it and won't have to ask for > much for it. > > Is there any interest out there in the PDP 11? He said this one > is missing a small panel, otherwise it was physically okay. >> Now for the bad news. Shipping is 152.89 and they would want more if you [------------------------------------^ to zip 43211 for a datapoint] >> need a lift gate for it. That's the price if you have a fork lift on your >> end. Don't worry. I can put it on ebay. We'll save it. My husband is >> looking at another DEC he wants to save. Tell me, he's considering a WANG >> too, are they as good? > Kate From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 24 18:51:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020924143347.3fb7609c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020924195219.6187d502@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:42 PM 9/24/02 -0700, Fred wrote: >On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: >> No it's looks like just a single stepper motor. I found a diskette >> in one of htem. It appears to be a standard disk. More about that in >> reponse to Will's message. > >Assuming that it is a formatted, used diskette for that drive, (not just >any-old diskette being used as a shipping head protector), then several >things can be determined from it. > >What COLOR is the media? 360K and 1.2M (300 oerstedt v 600 oerstedt) are >slightly different colors. 1.4M floppies v 2.8M (Barium Ferrite) are >different colors. It looks exactly the same color as the Ds, HD, 96 TPI disks that I have and neither of them have hub reinforment rings. The 360k disks that I have have a greener color. > >If the diskette is the same material as a 1.2M, then the 2.4M was probably >achieved by going to 192 TPI, instead of 96 TPI, since that would use the >same oerstedt media as 1.2M. > >OTOH, if it is a Barium Ferrite media, then it is probably still 96 TPI, >but with twice the linear density on each track of a 1.2M. That would >require a different media. > > >Try write protecting the diskette and put it into a DOS machine. >(the error messages from Windoze will hide all useful information) > > >If it is readable (both DIRectory and files, then it is NOT a 2.4M >diskette > >If part of the DIRectory is readable, but file access produces SECTOR NOT >FOUND, or GENERAL FAILURE, or if you ever get SECTOR NOT FOUND, or SEEK >ERROR. then it is almost certainly 192 TPI. > >If NOTHING is readable and produces General Failure (even first sectors of >DIRectory - try "ignore"), then it could be either. OK I'll try it when I get a chance. I'm pretty sure that it came from a 3174 and I searched for info on them but couldn't find anything that talked about the disks or that drive other than mentioning that it was an available option. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Sep 24 18:51:35 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020924195445.3457a184@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:15 PM 9/20/02 -0600, Will J wrote: >Those drives must be from an IBM control unit, such as a 3174, since I know >the drives in it say "1.4M" next to them. > I assume that you mean 2.4M. I did some searching on the 3174 and option 1048 for them is a 2.4Mb drive so that looks like that's where they came from. Later I checked the drives closer and I found a disk in the one that I hadn't looked at. It looks like a standard 5 1/4" floppy disk. It had a plain white label on it with no brand name. The lable says "DISKETTE TYPE 2.4MB 3174 CONTROL", "LICENSED INTERNAL CODE - PROPERTY OF IBM", "MACHINE 3174 P/N 25F8499 E/C A78831 ML90095 MICROCODE LVL B2.0" etc etc so it appears that it's definitely for a 3174. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 24 19:44:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <72F57ECC9732D611815100A0C984ED9C7C8207@msx1.cboe.com> from "Kapteyn, Rob" at Sep 24, 2 11:16:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1491 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020924/c5fe66aa/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 24 19:46:36 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's In-Reply-To: <007501c26398$0e6d0600$0100a8c0@voyager3> from "Voyager" at Sep 24, 2 10:00:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2451 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020924/5c986f76/attachment.ksh From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Sep 24 19:55:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11/73 in GA References: <009901c26425$02276920$8e469280@george> Message-ID: <001601c2642e$585872e0$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert F. Schaefer" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Olin" > > Hi again, Bob, > > Sorry to bother you. You might remember I am the wife of the guy > > who saved a VAX from the scrapheap earlier this month. <> > >Don't worry. I can put it on ebay. We'll save it. My husband is > > looking at another DEC he wants to save. Tell me, he's considering a > > WANG > > too, are they as good? > > > Kate Georgia's a little far for me to go, but I sure wish MY wife was this understanding. She had a cow at the mere suggestion of bringing home a VAX the other day. She is under the impression I have too many old computers as it is. I say there is no such thing as too many old computers. From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Sep 24 20:07:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A less painful way may be to lift the output pin of the regulator from its via. Or (and this is evil, but works, and is can be better than losing all your unsocketted chips), cut the trace after output of the regulator. You can always use a piece of foil tape or wire to effect a repair. This may detract from the ultimate value of the board, but you're far less likely to wreck it than removing irreplacable socketted chips. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 20:24 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Altair-what do I do first > > Good move -- don't plug it in yet. _Neve_ plug in a classic computer without checking it first! [Good advice on electrolytic caps deleted] > In any case, detach everything from the power supply and check it out first. > Unfortunately, Altairs have no connectors for this, so you will have to > desolder the wires. > Some suggest powering it up slowly on a variable transformer, but I have not > tried that. > > After checking out the power supply voltages, unplug all of the cards and The amin problem with S100 systems is that the PSU lines on the bus are unregulated. The voltage regulators are on each card. And this means that a defective regulator _on a card_ will wipe out all the chips on that card, and may even put high voltages onto the bus lines and damage other cards. Therefore, do as suggested and get the unregulated PSU working first. Then take the cards (one at a time) and remove all socketed ICs. Make a diagram first, of course if you don't have the schematics/layout diagrams for that card. You'd better hope that the expensive/rare ICs (CPU, ROMs, RAM, LSI I/O chips) are socketed. Then put the (essentially bare) card in the backplane and check the outputs of the regulators on that card. Repeat for all the cards you have. Put the ICs back into a card before starting on the next one (unless you are a lot better organised than me!) Then, and only then do you put populated cards into the backplane and start testing logic functions. -tony From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 24 20:28:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11/73 in GA In-Reply-To: <001601c2642e$585872e0$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > I say there is no such thing as too many old computers. You haven't been to my warehous yet. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 24 20:38:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11/73 in GA In-Reply-To: from "Christopher McNabb" at Sep 24, 2002 08:56:04 PM Message-ID: <200209250138.g8P1cvP09234@shell1.aracnet.com> > Georgia's a little far for me to go, but I sure wish MY wife was this > understanding. She had a cow at the mere suggestion of bringing home a VAX > the other day. She is under the impression I have too many old computers as > it is. I say there is no such thing as too many old computers. Your wife is probably correct. Consider your self lucky, my wife is understanding. As a result, I'm the one that thinks I've got too many old computers. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, collecting old computers is a disease! DECitis is one of the more extreme and dangerous varients of this disease. Developing DECitis can be especially dangerous if you already suffer from Bibliomania. If you think I'm joking, think again. Zane PS at least the disease isn't as distructive as some. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Sep 24 20:48:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E Paper Tapes from ECRM Message-ID: <000901c26435$bdcb0b40$3200a8c0@winnt> While looking through the pile of stuff I got with the PDP-8/E, I found a tray of papertapes from 'ECRM, INC'. The tapes are labeled as follows: 5365 Board (Video Store) Diag (c) 1976 ECRM, Inc 5000 Series Panel Switches Diag (c) 1975 ECRM, Inc BTCON 5000 (c) 1974 ECRM, Inc Beehive Terminal Diagnostic (c) 1975 ECRM, Inc ECRM Keyboard Diagnostic (c) 1976 ECRM, Inc Dictionary Generator Program SW9122(G) (c) 1974 ECRM,Inc AutoPrep 1 PaceSetter (c) 1974 ECRM, Inc Dictionary Generator Program SW9122(F) (c) 1974 ECRM, Inc. 5342 Board (Stok Search) Diag. (c) 1976 ECRM, Inc 5018 Board (Interrupt Mask) Diag (c) 1976 ECRM, Inc 5005 Board Serial Punch Diag (c) 1976 ECRM, Inc The use of some of these is obvious from the label, others are not. I am assuming that the PDP-8/E was connected to something made by ECRM, but I have no idea what. I do have one ECRM board, which is the 5005 Serial Punch/Reader controller. Does anyone know who ECRM is/was, and what kind of machine/system these tapes might have been used with? From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Sep 24 20:52:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: StorageTek 9708 Tape library In-Reply-To: <20020923182724.C1067143@marvin.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Brian Hechinger wrote: > does anyone know anything about these? does anyone have docs? i'd love > to get mine setup and working, but i can't seem to figure out details. > like for instance, there is a db25 on the back, and the robot doesn't > show up as a scsi id, are the robots on these things serial controlled? If it is indeed a SCSI media changer, have a look at mtx [http://mtx.sourceforge.net/]. -Toth From archer at topnow.com Tue Sep 24 21:31:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first References: Message-ID: <3D912028.1CDB93D@topnow.com> "J.C. Wren" wrote: > > A less painful way may be to lift the output pin of the regulator from its > via. Or (and this is evil, but works, and is can be better than losing all > your unsocketted chips), cut the trace after output of the regulator. You > can always use a piece of foil tape or wire to effect a repair. This may > detract from the ultimate value of the board, but you're far less likely to > wreck it than removing irreplacable socketted chips. > > --John And if all this seems like too much trouble, I'll be happy to take this odious burden off your hands. :) Merely email me for my shipping address. :) -- Ross > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 20:24 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Altair-what do I do first > > > > > Good move -- don't plug it in yet. > > _Neve_ plug in a classic computer without checking it first! > > [Good advice on electrolytic caps deleted] > > > In any case, detach everything from the power supply and check it out > first. > > Unfortunately, Altairs have no connectors for this, so you will have to > > desolder the wires. > > Some suggest powering it up slowly on a variable transformer, but I have > not > > tried that. > > > > After checking out the power supply voltages, unplug all of the cards and > > The amin problem with S100 systems is that the PSU lines on the bus are > unregulated. The voltage regulators are on each card. And this means that > a defective regulator _on a card_ will wipe out all the chips on that > card, and may even put high voltages onto the bus lines and damage other > cards. > > Therefore, do as suggested and get the unregulated PSU working first. > Then take the cards (one at a time) and remove all socketed ICs. Make a > diagram first, of course if you don't have the schematics/layout diagrams > for that card. You'd better hope that the expensive/rare ICs (CPU, ROMs, > RAM, LSI I/O chips) are socketed. > > Then put the (essentially bare) card in the backplane and check the > outputs of the regulators on that card. Repeat for all the cards you > have. Put the ICs back into a card before starting on the next one > (unless you are a lot better organised than me!) > > Then, and only then do you put populated cards into the backplane and > start testing logic functions. > > -tony From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Sep 24 21:54:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Pixel Machines In-Reply-To: <3D8FFE51.A36B7047@ecubics.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > There's a AT&T/Pixel Machines model 964d 'video thing' down at university > > salvage, and I was wondering if anyone had any information on them. > > I'm not sure yet if I want to bother lugging it up here - it's about > > 2ft x 2ft x 1ft in size, and looks like it might weigh as much as a small > > car. > > Would be bad to loose something like this to the dumpster, > but paying shipping, ... > > What do you think, how heavy it really is ? It was heavier than the copier sitting on top of it, and *might* have been possible for us to lift, although difficult. Probably 200+ lbs. Considering the weight, there's no way that I'll be able convince myself to bring it home. -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From dpeschel at eskimo.com Tue Sep 24 22:11:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E Paper Tapes from ECRM In-Reply-To: <000901c26435$bdcb0b40$3200a8c0@winnt>; from cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net on Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 09:49:09PM -0400 References: <000901c26435$bdcb0b40$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <20020924201130.B12742@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 09:49:09PM -0400, Christopher McNabb wrote: > While looking through the pile of stuff I got with the PDP-8/E, I found a > tray of papertapes from 'ECRM, INC'. The tapes are labeled as follows: > Does anyone know who ECRM is/was, and what kind of machine/system these > tapes might have been used with? I don't know anything about ECRM but the titles together suggest add-on typesetting or page layout hardware. "Dictionary" likely refers to hyphenations rather than spelling correction. The terminal would have been used for input, and maybe editing, of the text and formatting commands. The computer would then break the text into lines, add hyphens, and translate the result into the specialized codes used by the Linotype, phototypesetter, etc. Generally the typesetting codes are pretty low-level. The Linotype only worked with a line at a time so you had to deal with vertical spacing and boxes for photos yourself. Phototypesetters could do vertical spacing. The video system might be for previewing the page -- that seems quite fancy for a small computer but it obviously was used for something! -- Derek From emu at ecubics.com Tue Sep 24 22:13:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Pixel Machines References: Message-ID: <3D912B58.4F2FE1DD@ecubics.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > Considering the weight, there's no way that I'll be able convince myself > to bring it home. too bad, to see another dinosaur dying :( cheers From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Sep 24 22:19:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Pixel Machines In-Reply-To: <3D912B58.4F2FE1DD@ecubics.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > Considering the weight, there's no way that I'll be able convince myself > > to bring it home. > > too bad, to see another dinosaur dying :( Well, if anyone wants to rescue it (it's in Lafayette, IN), email me for information on where it is. I really do hate having to tell myself not to get things... -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Sep 24 22:36:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <3D912028.1CDB93D@topnow.com> References: <3D912028.1CDB93D@topnow.com> Message-ID: <200209242035.43021.rhudson@cnonline.net> On Tuesday 24 September 2002 07:32 pm, Ross Archer wrote: > "J.C. Wren" wrote: > And if all this seems like too much trouble, I'll be happy > to take > this odious burden off your hands. :) > > Merely email me for my shipping address. :) > :^) yup I knew there'd be one of those.... seriously, I'm a software guy, regulator? solder? whassat? Thanks anyway JC .... Bear in mind that It so far is only an offer. I will consider serious offers of trade.. things I would like in working order please. Commodore 64 /w 1 floppy drive / 64SX (the portable) HP41C pref with card reader Other HP gear - HP71, HP74 . Some other S100 bus system, Bare bones that can use my laptop as a "ASR" teletype. Televideo CPM system, the kind that had a tower and a monitor side by side with floppy drives in the tower. Televideo CGA clone same sort of form factor. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 24 22:53:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: C-64 numbers (was Re: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020925035421.55479.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > > > "About 30 million Commodore 64 computers were sold between the model's > > launch in 1982 and its commercial decline in 1993. The computer > > contained 64K RAM, 16K graphics, and 16K sound." > > That's contrary to every figure I've ever heard for the C64 production > numbers. It's inflated by about 50-60%. Cameron Kaiser or Larry > Anderson would be the guys to ask. Agreed. My understanding of the number of C-64s sold is more in the ballpark of 17-19M. I have s/n S00002345 (FCC ID BR98VY.VIC20 !) among others (I used to have S00002008, a freebie/promo unit from C= to my first employer in April, 1982, but we traded it into the dealer for a newer one that crashed less often. Somewhere, I have the 1540 that came with it). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 24 23:00:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: RSX-11 Kermit Transfers In-Reply-To: <20020924214904.85087.qmail@web14612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020925040122.99499.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > Ethan: > > On VMS there was an easier way to transfer files via > kermit and still retain the files' attributes. > > The tecnique involved using VMS' backup utility to > create a backup file save set with a record length of > 8192 bytes and group=0... Interesting. That sounds like it work work perfectly, from a technical standpoint. I'm not sure I would have wanted to explain any of that to our customers (but in those many cases where they gave us dial-in access to fix problems... ;-) We had one manager call us because his technical guy was out. I told him he we needed to look at the log files. I said he needed to type "DIR HASP:*.LGA". It went like this: Me: Type 'dee, eye, arr, space, aych, aye, ess, pee, colon, star, dot, ell, gee, aye, return. PHB: Star... that's the one over the '8' key, right? Me (to myself): maybe he calls it something else?!? Me (to customer): Yes. That's the one. PHB: Colon... that's the one with the little tail, right? Me: Umm... no. That's a semi-colon. You need the other one. The call went down-hill fast. This guy couldn't manage English literacy, let alone computer literacy. His self-assumed title was the "Network Manager". We gave our customers BACKPACK. That was easier to talk them through than other ideas we had. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Tue Sep 24 23:05:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: RSX-11 Kermit Transfers In-Reply-To: <20020924214904.85087.qmail@web14612.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020923154525.43309.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020925140425.02211600@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 02:49 PM 24/09/2002 -0700, Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: >Ethan: > >On VMS there was an easier way to transfer files via >kermit and still retain the files' attributes. > >The tecnique involved using VMS' backup utility to >create a backup file save set with a record length of >8192 bytes and group=0 (no redundancy groups). You >transfer that file over to the other system in fixed >file mode - the result is a 512 byte record length >binary file. > >You then on that system create a small backup save set >with the same record size of 8192 bytes, and use >copy/overlay to copy the transferred file over that >newly created backup saveset. Viola, VMS recreates >the file from the first system with the proper record >structure, and you can then use backup/restore to get >the files you transferred out and put them to use. With slightly more recent versions of OpenVMS you don't have to do the copy/overlay trick, you can use the set file command to change the file attributes instead. Before this functionality was added there were programs around that allowed you to "fix" backup savesets that had been transferred via kermit (or ftp for that matter). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From donm at cts.com Wed Sep 25 00:00:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: 2.4Mb 5 1/4" floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020924195219.6187d502@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > At 03:42 PM 9/24/02 -0700, Fred wrote: > >On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > >> No it's looks like just a single stepper motor. I found a diskette > >> in one of htem. It appears to be a standard disk. More about that in > >> reponse to Will's message. > > > >Assuming that it is a formatted, used diskette for that drive, (not just > >any-old diskette being used as a shipping head protector), then several > >things can be determined from it. > > > >What COLOR is the media? 360K and 1.2M (300 oerstedt v 600 oerstedt) are > >slightly different colors. 1.4M floppies v 2.8M (Barium Ferrite) are > >different colors. > > It looks exactly the same color as the Ds, HD, 96 TPI disks that I have and neither of them have hub reinforment rings. The 360k disks that I have have a greener color. > > > > >If the diskette is the same material as a 1.2M, then the 2.4M was probably > >achieved by going to 192 TPI, instead of 96 TPI, since that would use the > >same oerstedt media as 1.2M. > > > >OTOH, if it is a Barium Ferrite media, then it is probably still 96 TPI, > >but with twice the linear density on each track of a 1.2M. That would > >require a different media. > > > > > >Try write protecting the diskette and put it into a DOS machine. > >(the error messages from Windoze will hide all useful information) > > > > > >If it is readable (both DIRectory and files, then it is NOT a 2.4M > >diskette > > > >If part of the DIRectory is readable, but file access produces SECTOR NOT > >FOUND, or GENERAL FAILURE, or if you ever get SECTOR NOT FOUND, or SEEK > >ERROR. then it is almost certainly 192 TPI. > > > >If NOTHING is readable and produces General Failure (even first sectors of > >DIRectory - try "ignore"), then it could be either. > > OK I'll try it when I get a chance. I'm pretty sure that it came from a 3174 and I searched for info on them but couldn't find anything that talked about the disks or that drive other than mentioning that it was an available option. > > Joe Looked it up in the Pocket PC Ref and found it listed as 2.4MB and DSHD which would suggest the 192 TPI. You might connect one of the drives to a PC FDC, stuff a HD floppy in it and issue the format command. If the head travels only half way before starting the verify pass, it is certainly the higher track density. - don From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Sep 25 00:33:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <03e501c2644b$bbfc8ad0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> References: <03e501c2644b$bbfc8ad0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <200209242232.51573.rhudson@cnonline.net> On Tuesday 24 September 2002 09:26 pm, you wrote: > Ron, > > You are seriously looking to potentially trade the machine? > > Erik > www.vintage-computer.com yes, seriously, my eyesight is not much good for soldering, or chip reading. Everyone - Please remember this is not the altair you think of with the blinky lights and switches, it does have a video out (some sort of terminal board) and floppy drives. It has been sitting in a garage for some time, and it's only an offer so far, not delivered. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Wed Sep 25 01:23:01 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: RSX-11 Kermit Transfers References: <20020924214904.85087.qmail@web14612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D9156A3.9F511370@naffnet.org.uk> Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > Ethan: > > On VMS there was an easier way to transfer files via > kermit and still retain the files' attributes. > > The tecnique involved using VMS' backup utility to > create a backup file save set with a record length of > 8192 bytes and group=0 (no redundancy groups). You > transfer that file over to the other system in fixed > file mode - the result is a 512 byte record length > binary file. > > You then on that system create a small backup save set > with the same record size of 8192 bytes, and use > copy/overlay to copy the transferred file over that > newly created backup saveset. Viola, VMS recreates > the file from the first system with the proper record > structure, and you can then use backup/restore to get > the files you transferred out and put them to use. > > Particularly useful when transferring Stream_LF file > types I recall.. If more information is needed, then the 'DCL Dialogue' columns are all on line, and the August 1991 column describes this technique (complete with viola!). The columns can be found at http://www.kgb.com/dcl.html, and the specific column is located at http://www.kgb.com/dcl/199108.txt. Happy reading, Dave. From voyager at hol.gr Wed Sep 25 01:33:01 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Looking for statistics on the Computer market of the 80's References: <200209241154.HAA08803@wordstock.com> <002c01c263f4$f0a1c9a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> <000d01c2640e$efa6c900$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> <005901c26411$474f5bc0$0100a8c0@voyager3> <009801c2641f$8d40e780$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <005f01c2645c$ef6c0d80$0100a8c0@voyager3> > > Sir Clive was notorius for giving false info on comercial issues :-) > And how does that make him different from every other micro maker? > > I'd be happy to send you a copy of the press release. Send me your fax > number off-list. It's a 23-page company fact sheet dated May 1982. Do you > want it all or just the relevant pages? > > What is the source for your 70,000 figure? > Thanks ! But, would be possible to scan it, so we could use it online too? The70K was found on world of spectrum or some relevant sinclair-related site, on the sinclair story review George From hansp at aconit.org Wed Sep 25 04:19:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E Paper Tapes from ECRM References: <000901c26435$bdcb0b40$3200a8c0@winnt> <20020924201130.B12742@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3D917F99.3010109@aconit.org> Derek Peschel wrote: > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 09:49:09PM -0400, Christopher McNabb wrote: >>Does anyone know who ECRM is/was, and what kind of machine/system these >>tapes might have been used with? > I don't know anything about ECRM but the titles together suggest add-on > typesetting or page layout hardware. "Dictionary" likely refers to > hyphenations rather than spelling correction. As Derek says, it appears that this was some typesetting system. A quick look on Google for ECRM throws up a few pages relating to typesetting systems. I did not dig much deeper but at first glance it would appear that ECRM is still around and still in that business (see www.ecrm.com). -- hbp From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Sep 25 05:08:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: KDF 9 Core stores Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146EA9@BUSH02> Pictures of two parts of the nesting store from this machine are now online at .. http://members.lycos.co.uk/leeedavison/kdf9/index.html Enjoy. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Sep 25 07:50:48 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Was "War Games" based on real-life? Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126F55@MAIL10> Hello, all: While flipping through PC Magazine this morning, I noticed the following quote on page 26 of the 10/15/02 issue: "You might expect highly technical security advice from Kevin Mitnick, whose alleged 1982 hack into NORAD inspired the movie War Games." This is the first time I've seen this reference. Is this true? Rich From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Sep 25 08:25:00 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Was "War Games" based on real-life? Message-ID: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8F20@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> What I remember from that time is that as result of the movie questions were asked in the Senate *if* the scenario shown in the movie *could* be possible ... BTW I love that movie. Seen it more than 5 times, still like it. my 2c, - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Cini, Richard [mailto:RCini@congressfinancial.com] > Sent: woensdag 25 september 2002 14:51 > To: CCTalk (E-mail) > Subject: Was "War Games" based on real-life? > > Hello, all: > > While flipping through PC Magazine this morning, I noticed the > following quote on page 26 of the 10/15/02 issue: > > "You might expect highly technical security advice from Kevin > Mitnick, whose alleged 1982 hack into NORAD inspired the > movie War Games." > > This is the first time I've seen this reference. Is this true? > > Rich From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 25 08:47:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Was "War Games" based on real-life? In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126F55@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Cini, Richard wrote: > While flipping through PC Magazine this morning, I noticed the > following quote on page 26 of the 10/15/02 issue: > > "You might expect highly technical security advice from Kevin > Mitnick, whose alleged 1982 hack into NORAD inspired the movie War Games." > > This is the first time I've seen this reference. Is this true? Kevin did a lot of stuff people don't know about. But I don't know if this is true or not. Sounds plausible. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Sep 25 09:03:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <200209242232.51573.rhudson@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <001801c2649c$63b77b40$90f8b8ce@impac.com> It's probably an 8080BT, but that's just a guess at this point. The Altair I "rescued" with tons of help from Dwight and others from this list was also a garage piece for a long time. I brought it up piece by piece as was suggested in one of the previous replies. I didn't separate card logic from the regulators on each card, but I did power each card individually to see what might go pop. I got lucky with capacitors but some of the front panel TTL was bad and needed repair (Dwight and his 'scope saved my ignorant butt on that!) With the machine running I realized that 6 of 7 RAM cards I had were either completely dead or unreliable. I don't know if that was just dumb luck or a result of rough handling before I got the machine but it was shipped wrapped in clear bubble wrap then embedded in Styrofoam peanuts and the cards were left installed in the machine resulting in broken card guides and split slots. If you do decide to keep this machine expect equal portions of fun and frustration, which I think pretty well defines this hobby. Erik S. Klein -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 10:33 PM To: ClassicCmp@vintage-computer.com; Classic Computers Subject: Re: Altair-what do I do first On Tuesday 24 September 2002 09:26 pm, you wrote: > Ron, > > You are seriously looking to potentially trade the machine? > > Erik > www.vintage-computer.com yes, seriously, my eyesight is not much good for soldering, or chip reading. Everyone - Please remember this is not the altair you think of with the blinky lights and switches, it does have a video out (some sort of terminal board) and floppy drives. It has been sitting in a garage for some time, and it's only an offer so far, not delivered. From bqt at update.uu.se Wed Sep 25 09:28:00 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: RSX-11 Kermit file transfer of binary files... In-Reply-To: <20020925140300.38221.24425.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Unfortunately I (somehow) missed the start of this thread, but I figured I might as well jump in. I don't even know for sure who asked the original question, but I hope this gets to whoever is interested. First of all, you need to set kermit to transfer binary files in order to transfer tasks (I figure it handles this if you allow it to automatically decide the mode as well). Second, kermit-11 can send attribute packets, which tranfers RMS information, along with the file. Third, KERMIT-11 is somewhat buggy. I wrote a patch or two to remedy the most obvious errors (which crashed KERMIT-11 if attribute packets were sent). However, I got tired of this whole thing, and wrote a program similar to uuencode/uudecode for RSX, which preserves everything, while converting to/from plain text files. I called it COD, and it's in MACRO-11. Not in all respects a beautiful program (the source, that is), but it works very nice, and it's free. Using this, you just throw your file at COD, transfer the text file, run it through COD, and you have your file back. It retains all attributes, contigous state, and some other meta information as well (such as file protection). If anyone need it, it is free, available in source at ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp11/rsx/tools/cod/ Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From at258 at osfn.org Wed Sep 25 10:05:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 lives! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There were two hard drive systems used. The later one used the DEM(DEM-II?)which held 5-1/4 floppies and could hold a hard disk and a controller card, I think. The earlier system used a combination single floppy with Shugart 8 inch hard drive. On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > > From: Don Maslin > > > > > First off, Glen, is it an 820 or an 820-II? Since you have been in to > > > it, you should recall whether there is a daughter card that plugs in > > > vertically in the right rear quadrant of the motherboard. If it is > > > there, you have an 820-II. > > > > Cool! It's an 820-II. > > > > > Make sure that the heads are clean and that the guide rails for the head > > > assembly are clean and VERY LIGHTLY lubricated. > > > > The drive is scheduled for a good cleaning this weekend ;>) > > > > > There is a program named MFT45.COM (also MFT48.COM) that is capable of > > > single drive copy. It is a little tedious because of disk jockeying, > > > but it does do the job. MFT stands for Multiple File Transfer. > > > > More cool -- I'll check the diskettes that came with it to see if this > > program is present. > > > > > > --> Some of the utilities on the boot diskettes (FMT, for example) > > refer to > > > > hard disk drives. What's involved in attaching a hard drive to this > > > > system? > > > > > > If an 820, it is not a particularly reasonable thing to try. If an > > > 820-II, easy if you can find the Xerox add ons. Rather more difficult > > > otherwise. > > > > Would you happen to know the model number of the Xerox external HDD unit? > > IIRC, it is an external cabinet called the Disk Expansion Module. Also > contains a 5.25" drive. > - don > > > > > --> The flimsy "User Manual" which I have states that the RS232 port > > may be > > > > configured to attach to a terminal or to a modem. How? > > > > > > Probably switching the port from DTE to DCE pinout. > > > > Sure, but I'm reluctant to make any internal changes w/o docs. > > > > As always, thanks, Don! > > > > Glen > > 0/0 > > > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Wed Sep 25 10:07:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11/73 in GA In-Reply-To: <001601c2642e$585872e0$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: There is such a thing as too many wives, though, Bob. On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert F. Schaefer" > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kate Olin" > > > Hi again, Bob, > > > Sorry to bother you. You might remember I am the wife of the guy > > > who saved a VAX from the scrapheap earlier this month. > > <> > > > >Don't worry. I can put it on ebay. We'll save it. My husband is > > > looking at another DEC he wants to save. Tell me, he's considering a > > > WANG > > > too, are they as good? > > > > > Kate > > Georgia's a little far for me to go, but I sure wish MY wife was this > understanding. She had a cow at the mere suggestion of bringing home a VAX > the other day. She is under the impression I have too many old computers as > it is. I say there is no such thing as too many old computers. > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Sep 25 10:18:01 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11/73 in GA In-Reply-To: References: <001601c2642e$585872e0$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020925100822.024b49f8@pc> At 11:08 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, Merle K. Peirce wrote: >There is such a thing as too many wives, though, Bob. As Oscar Wilde put it, bigamy is having one spouse too many; monogamy is the same. - John From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 25 10:19:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11/73 in GA Message-ID: LOL! Well, my parents apparently are willing to agree there's nothing called too many computers, so long as they are put away nicely, not filling the garage, spread through the house, etc.. Heh.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From kapteynr at cboe.com Wed Sep 25 10:22:01 2002 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first Message-ID: <72F57ECC9732D611815100A0C984ED9C7C820C@msx1.cboe.com> All good advice so far -- but one caution I forgot. My experience is that the CMOS chips from this period are THE MOST STATIC SENSITIVE chips that there are. It is much easier to damage these whith inappropriate handling than any modern stuff. Use paranoid static handling precautions. Since I usually work on these machines on those cold (dry) winter days when static forms easily, I also use a humidifier in the room where I work. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of J.C. Wren Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 8:08 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Altair-what do I do first A less painful way may be to lift the output pin of the regulator from its via. Or (and this is evil, but works, and is can be better than losing all your unsocketted chips), cut the trace after output of the regulator. You can always use a piece of foil tape or wire to effect a repair. This may detract from the ultimate value of the board, but you're far less likely to wreck it than removing irreplacable socketted chips. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 20:24 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Altair-what do I do first > > Good move -- don't plug it in yet. _Neve_ plug in a classic computer without checking it first! [Good advice on electrolytic caps deleted] > In any case, detach everything from the power supply and check it out first. > Unfortunately, Altairs have no connectors for this, so you will have to > desolder the wires. > Some suggest powering it up slowly on a variable transformer, but I have not > tried that. > > After checking out the power supply voltages, unplug all of the cards and The amin problem with S100 systems is that the PSU lines on the bus are unregulated. The voltage regulators are on each card. And this means that a defective regulator _on a card_ will wipe out all the chips on that card, and may even put high voltages onto the bus lines and damage other cards. Therefore, do as suggested and get the unregulated PSU working first. Then take the cards (one at a time) and remove all socketed ICs. Make a diagram first, of course if you don't have the schematics/layout diagrams for that card. You'd better hope that the expensive/rare ICs (CPU, ROMs, RAM, LSI I/O chips) are socketed. Then put the (essentially bare) card in the backplane and check the outputs of the regulators on that card. Repeat for all the cards you have. Put the ICs back into a card before starting on the next one (unless you are a lot better organised than me!) Then, and only then do you put populated cards into the backplane and start testing logic functions. -tony From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 25 10:24:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: RSTS/E Manuals??? Message-ID: Hi, I recently accquired a really, really random assortment of RSTS manuals, from V06B up to like V9.6 or so, and I'm attempting to make sense of what portions of docsets I have parts of.. If anyone has extra manuals, that'd rock, but I also could really use copies/scans/etc. of the documentation directories, since the only one I have is for V7.1 haha Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Sep 25 10:31:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: VAX 4000-500 near Texas? In-Reply-To: <20020925140300.38221.24425.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: All, Dunno whether this is on-topic or not, apologies if not. Someone at my institute needs access to a VAX 4000-500 or similar series machine for a proposal for some project work. I intend to loan my Vax 4000 VLC to them, but: 1) Does anyone near San Antonio Texs, have a qualifying machine that they'd like to unload permanently, hopefully at a reasonably good price? 2) What are the differences between the 4000VLC and the 4000-500? Are there likely to be some serious gotchas in there? - Mark From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 25 11:38:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11/73 in GA In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020925100822.024b49f8@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, John Foust wrote: > At 11:08 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > >There is such a thing as too many wives, though, Bob. > > As Oscar Wilde put it, bigamy is having one spouse too many; > monogamy is the same. Damn, I love that guy! (Er, but not in the same way that he loved other males ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed Sep 25 11:54:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:33 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <72F57ECC9732D611815100A0C984ED9C7C820C@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: <20020925165438.72000.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> I know of a guy who repairs "classic" music synthesizers who says that virtually every 4000 CMOS chip from the original RCA masks has or is about to fail from static problems/metal creep. This includes most mid 1970's era chips. Fortunately, not much of it in an Altair, as I recall. --- "Kapteyn, Rob" wrote: > All good advice so far -- but one caution I forgot. > > My experience is that the CMOS chips from this > period are THE MOST STATIC > SENSITIVE chips that there are. > > It is much easier to damage these whith > inappropriate handling than any > modern stuff. > > Use paranoid static handling precautions. > Since I usually work on these machines on those cold > (dry) winter days when > static forms easily, > I also use a humidifier in the room where I work. > > -Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of J.C. Wren > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 8:08 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Altair-what do I do first > > > A less painful way may be to lift the output pin of > the regulator > from its > via. Or (and this is evil, but works, and is can be > better than losing all > your unsocketted chips), cut the trace after output > of the regulator. You > can always use a piece of foil tape or wire to > effect a repair. This may > detract from the ultimate value of the board, but > you're far less likely to > wreck it than removing irreplacable socketted chips. > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 20:24 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Altair-what do I do first > > > > > > Good move -- don't plug it in yet. > > _Neve_ plug in a classic computer without checking > it first! > > [Good advice on electrolytic caps deleted] > > > In any case, detach everything from the power > supply and check it out > first. > > Unfortunately, Altairs have no connectors for > this, so you will have to > > desolder the wires. > > Some suggest powering it up slowly on a variable > transformer, but I have > not > > tried that. > > > > After checking out the power supply voltages, > unplug all of the cards and > > The amin problem with S100 systems is that the PSU > lines on the bus are > unregulated. The voltage regulators are on each > card. And this means that > a defective regulator _on a card_ will wipe out all > the chips on that > card, and may even put high voltages onto the bus > lines and damage other > cards. > > Therefore, do as suggested and get the unregulated > PSU working first. > Then take the cards (one at a time) and remove all > socketed ICs. Make a > diagram first, of course if you don't have the > schematics/layout diagrams > for that card. You'd better hope that the > expensive/rare ICs (CPU, ROMs, > RAM, LSI I/O chips) are socketed. > > Then put the (essentially bare) card in the > backplane and check the > outputs of the regulators on that card. Repeat for > all the cards you > have. Put the ICs back into a card before starting > on the next one > (unless you are a lot better organised than me!) > > Then, and only then do you put populated cards into > the backplane and > start testing logic functions. > > -tony > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Sep 25 11:54:55 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Quadri Core memory? References: <3.0.6.16.20020924194216.618720ce@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D91EACF.40009@tiac.net> Good God Man! I think you have part of a Hughes HM-4118 there! I worked on these in the USAF, if anything remains of the machine, it should be very easy to identify due to the fancy packaging of the electronics. If you see small PCB's with a latticework of metal running under each flat-pack IC, all under a thick layer of conformal coating, your probably looking at the remains of an TSQ-91 combat air traffic control system. Heartbreaking if true... Are there any large radar consols there? Any electronics packaged in mil-spec swing-out doors with Hughes Aircraft lables? The HM-4118 was quite a machine, it had a square-root function is its machine code, and was something like a 18-bit PDP-8 or HP2100, with a 17-bit physical address space. Kinda large for a mini of its era, but not quite a main frame either. Butt-ugly and near bullet-proof.. But what a vector display system it had, for real-time radar video overlays. Super-cool to see in action. Joe wrote: > I recently found what looked like a solid block of aluminium recently but on closer inspection it turned out to be a 64k x 18 core memory made by Quadri Corporation. It's part number is 1-0805-0015-02. It measures 1 1/2" x 6' x 9" and all the case parts are machined out of solid aluminium and it fits together so well that the joints are barely visible. It's very obviously military. It looks like it could survive WW III! I did some searching for Quadri and found that they used to be a manufacturer of high reliability core memory systems used in military aircraft, helicopters, tanks and other vehicles but they have been bought out by a company by the name of Agro-Tech and no longer exist. Does anyone know anything about the Quadri core memories or know anything about Quadri? > > Joe > > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Sep 25 12:51:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: CPM-8000 running Message-ID: <200209251751.KAA10856@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Chris Groessler and I have been working with the CPM-8000 images that we found on the unofficial CPM page, along with manuals and such found elsewhere. Last night, I was able to get the CPM-8000 prompt and execute both commands that I tried ( DIR and USER ). There are still some minor issues but things should be moving right along ( why can't programmers realize that initializing variables is an important part of any program? ). I want to give thanks to Hans, without the hardware manual he scanned, I wouldn't have been able to figure out the address decoder PROM in my Olivetti M20 and find out how to bring my machine up to 256K of RAM ( needed by CPM-8000 ). We still have some work to do ( building up the disk with all of the files ) but it looks like a down hill trip from here. Later Dwight From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 25 12:56:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Was "War Games" based on real-life? In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126F55@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Cini, Richard wrote: > Hello, all: > While flipping through PC Magazine this morning, I noticed the > following quote on page 26 of the 10/15/02 issue: > "You might expect highly technical security advice from Kevin > Mitnick, whose alleged 1982 hack into NORAD inspired the movie War Games." > This is the first time I've seen this reference. Is this true? "inspired the movie" is NOT the same as saying that it was based on real events, merely that some event gave somebody the idea. "somebody broke into our computer" "Gee, what if they were to break into the computer that controls the missiles?" (aka paranoia) When somebody breaks into a computer owned by the military, paranoid people don't differentiate between the multitudinous different machines that the military has (which do not all have the same level of security). Do the launch computers have dial-up modems? Do they have websites? Missile control computers and ones used for requisitioning toilet paper are both "military computers". Never mind the missiles, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF TERRISTS DISRUPTED THE TOILET PAPER SUPPLY??!? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 25 13:23:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: from "J.C. Wren" at Sep 24, 2 09:08:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1641 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020925/2a798b30/attachment.ksh From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Sep 25 13:39:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > A less painful way may be to lift the output pin of the regulator from its > > via. Or (and this is evil, but works, and is can be better than losing all > > your unsocketted chips), cut the trace after output of the regulator. You > > A word of warning if you try this. Some (only a few, but) 3-terminal > regulators are unstable if don't properly decouple them. So if you > totally disconnect the output pin, add a 100nF capacitor between the > disconnected pin and the ground rail. > > It may be impossible to do this, BTW, if the regulator is a TO3 (metal > can) one _and_ the power distribution is on an internal power plane of a > multi-layer PCB. Multi-layer PCBs are not common in S100 machines, but > they did exist at that time. > > > can always use a piece of foil tape or wire to effect a repair. This may > > Indeed. Don't just bridge the trace with a blob of solder, though. It > will give problems later.... In fact _always_ solder a wire across a > track break or cut rather than just using a blob of solder. > > > detract from the ultimate value of the board, but you're far less likely to > > wreck it than removing irreplacable socketted chips. > > I've never damaged a chip removing it from a socket. But desoldering > irreplacable chips (i.e. removing unsocketed ones) is something I'd not > want to do too often. > > It depends on the board. If you can pull almost all the ICs, perhaps just > leving a bit of TTL, then try it like that. TTL is still fairly easy to > get. If, on the other hand you've got soldered-in RAMs, or LSI parts, > or... then disconnect the regulator from the rest of the board rather > then trying to remove the ICs. > > -tony > > Seems like an easier thing to do would be to use a lab supply to power the unreg, ramp it up slowly, and make sure the regulators are working. Better still, if you are testing the cards one at a time with an external supply, tack on a 5V (set to 5.5 or so) crowbar on the output side of the local 5V regulator -- no cut traces, only tacking on 2 wires temporarily... Peter Wallace From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Sep 25 15:06:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Keyboard adapter for ?? Message-ID: <3D91D057.21942.D215DC2@localhost> I picked up an ordinary Fujitso KB at a thrift shop that had an adapter on the end of the cable. It's a small plug and the only markings on it were the common I/O arrows on the business end. One side is the regular F 5-pin Din but the male side is about halfway between a regular din and a PS/2 sub. It is in a 6-pin configuration but the pins are much thinner than usual. It only has 4 pins which would square with the 5v, grnd, clock, data requirements but it could have a pin(s) broken off since they're fragile and protrude from the shell about 3/8". Clockwise the 1 and 3 are missing. There's no center lock. Anyone have any idea of what this might be for ? Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Sep 25 15:51:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: RSTS/E Manuals??? In-Reply-To: from "Will Jennings" at Sep 25, 2002 09:24:26 AM Message-ID: <200209252051.g8PKp1520803@shell1.aracnet.com> > I recently accquired a really, really random assortment of RSTS manuals, > from V06B up to like V9.6 or so, and I'm attempting to make sense of what > portions of docsets I have parts of.. If anyone has extra manuals, that'd > rock, but I also could really use copies/scans/etc. of the documentation > directories, since the only one I have is for V7.1 haha > > Will J Would you by any chance have an extra copy of the 9.x or 10.x System Managers manual? Zane From patrick at evocative.com Wed Sep 25 16:19:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Better still, if you are testing the cards one at a time with an external > supply, tack on a 5V (set to 5.5 or so) crowbar on the output side of the > local 5V regulator -- no cut traces, only tacking on 2 wires > temporarily... > > Peter Wallace Peter, yeah, this seems like an easy approach. Question: could a simple 6.2V Zener be installed reverse-biased from the 5V regulator output to ground? Seems like you'd want inline fuses between the unregulated supply and the backplace as well for this kind of test... Patrick From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Sep 25 16:30:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > Better still, if you are testing the cards one at a time with an external > > supply, tack on a 5V (set to 5.5 or so) crowbar on the output side of the > > local 5V regulator -- no cut traces, only tacking on 2 wires > > temporarily... > > > > Peter Wallace > > Peter, yeah, this seems like an easy approach. Question: could a simple > 6.2V Zener be installed reverse-biased from the 5V regulator output to > ground? Seems like you'd want inline fuses between the unregulated supply > and the backplace as well for this kind of test... > > Patrick > > You would have to have a monster zener to be safe, probably 50 W or so. Those arent that common. A crowbar circuit stolen from another supply or a home made one would be better than a zener. Instead of a crowbar (that usually use SCRs), You could also use a 5.6v or so shunt regulator made with a big (20A) power transistor and a 5V 10W zener... Peter Wallace From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Sep 25 16:37:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: VAX 4000-500 near Texas? Message-ID: >2) What are the differences between the 4000VLC and the 4000-500? Are there >likely to be some serious gotchas in there? The VLC (as you know) is small, uses one low profile SCSI disk internally, has an external SCSI connector, supports a max of 24MB or memory and weighs in at 6 VUPs or so. There is no real expansion available. A VAX 4000-500 is bigger (coffee table size), usually comes with DSSI drives (although it can use SCSI with the right additional h/w) can have many disks, supports more memory (512MB max - 32MB min!) and runs at 24VUPs on a bad day (more if it is really a -700A or 705A). DSSI is available for storage and the box has a Q-bus. Whether any of this matters or not depends on what the VAX is supposed to do. If they wanted an OpenVMS compute engine, almost any cheap Alpha would eat both of the above for breakfast, so I assume that there is either a software constraint (e.g. VAX-only 3rd party s/w) or a hardware one (must use this Q-bus interface card). Antonio From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 25 17:05:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Rigney" at Sep 25, 2 02:20:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1441 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020925/20d99c5b/attachment.ksh From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Sep 25 17:17:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first Message-ID: <200209252215.PAA11016@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Peter C. Wallace" > >On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > >> > Better still, if you are testing the cards one at a time with an external >> > supply, tack on a 5V (set to 5.5 or so) crowbar on the output side of the >> > local 5V regulator -- no cut traces, only tacking on 2 wires >> > temporarily... >> > >> > Peter Wallace >> >> Peter, yeah, this seems like an easy approach. Question: could a simple >> 6.2V Zener be installed reverse-biased from the 5V regulator output to >> ground? Seems like you'd want inline fuses between the unregulated supply >> and the backplace as well for this kind of test... >> >> Patrick >> >> > > You would have to have a monster zener to be safe, probably 50 W or >so. Those arent that common. A crowbar circuit stolen from another supply or a >home made one would be better than a zener. > > Instead of a crowbar (that usually use SCRs), You could also use a >5.6v or so shunt regulator made with a big (20A) power transistor and a 5V >10W zener... > >Peter Wallace > > Hi I think you are all a little paranoid. Regulators rarely fail in storage. If it is blown, it most likely blew while the power was on and any damage has already long since been done. That being said, there is a failure that can happen in storage that is related to the regulation. Many regulators, especially the TO-3 types need the screw holding them to the board to have a vary good connection. If this is bad, the voltage will go unregulated and it will over voltage. You should remove and check under these screws to look for corrosion and clean the surfaces. I recommend a star washer between the PCB and nut/washer. This should be checked on any electronics that has been stored. Often this is a good point to restore some fresh heatsink compound as well. The old dry stuff is less effective. The most common failure is the old electrolytics and the tantalums. I've seen flames from a blown tantalum. If you connect a voltmeter to the output leads of any regulators and watch the voltage as you bring the line up with a variac ( adjustable auto-transformer ), you should be able to catch any over voltage before it does any harm. ( note: don't use a variac on a switcher supply! ) Later Dwight From dittman at dittman.net Wed Sep 25 17:26:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: VAX 4000-500 near Texas? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Sep 25, 2002 10:11:53 AM Message-ID: <200209252222.g8PMMaa13039@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Dunno whether this is on-topic or not, apologies if not. Someone at > my institute needs access to a VAX 4000-500 or similar series machine for a > proposal for some project work. I intend to loan my Vax 4000 VLC to them, > but: > > 1) Does anyone near San Antonio Texs, have a qualifying machine that they'd > like to unload permanently, hopefully at a reasonably good price? I have a VAX 4000-500 I'm looking to sell, but I'm in Plano, Texas (northern suburb of Dallas). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Sep 25 17:28:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <200209252215.PAA11016@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: "( note: don't use a variac on a switcher supply! )" Why not? We do it all the time, for checking what the low and high voltage cut-off point of a switcher is. We also vary the frequency all over the place. I don't know switchers in general, but ours suddenly start switching as the voltage hits 90V on the up-test, and about the same on the down-test. It may not be *useful* do to so for testing the device, but it won't cause any damage in any of the number of supplies we've tested. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 18:16 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Altair-what do I do first [ snip] ( note: don't use a variac on a switcher supply! ) Later Dwight From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 25 18:00:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: VAX 4000-500 near Texas? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020925230107.28874.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > > >2) What are the differences between the 4000VLC and the 4000-500?... > Whether any of this matters or not depends on what the VAX is supposed > to do. If they wanted an OpenVMS compute engine, almost any cheap > Alpha would eat both of the above for breakfast, so I assume that there > is either a software constraint (e.g. VAX-only 3rd party s/w) or a > hardware one (must use this Q-bus interface card). I got a cheap Alpha - a DEC 4000 (1 180MHz CPU, 385MB RAM, three disk trays, TLZ07, RRD42, DEC 4mm DAT) from the Uni Surplus. I'd rather it have been a VAX 4000. I _do_ have 3rd-party Qbus cards - Mine! I have *no* need for Futurebus+. You are right, though; it does make a nice OpenVMS engine. It's everything I ever wanted in a VAX, minus ancient peripheral compatibility and 32-bit binary compatibility (meaning I can't run stuff off my old backups). If I didn't have so much legacy stuff, it would *really* be neat. As it is, I probably spend more time with a uVAX-II powered up than this guy (and more time on the 8200 still) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Sep 25 18:17:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Mark-8 schematics? References: <20020925230107.28874.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D92448F.3070504@tiac.net> I've just checked the Mark-8 links, and the only schematic-like thing I've found is part of the original Intel schematic that inspired the Mark-8. Having found a few 8008's, I would like to see the actual Mark-8 (or mark-8 clone) schematics. They don't seem to be on-line. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Sep 25 18:48:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Brian Instruments BRIKON Mdl 723 Floppy Drive Tester / Analyzer Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020925195205.25973a34@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone here have access to one the model 723 floppy drive testers with the analog/alignment attachment (option R)? If so can you send me the pin out of the I/O cable for analog attachment? I think there's only six or eight leads on it? Joe From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Sep 25 19:30:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first Message-ID: <200209260031.RAA11074@clulw009.amd.com> Hi John Not all switcher are of the same high quality as the ones you are testing. I've seen enough of them that will turn the transistor on solid if the the voltage is too low, in an attempt to bring the output voltage up. This was more common in older switchers than newer ones. Most are designed to shut down, as John noted, now days. It wasn't always that way. Even so, there is little useful results of using a variac on these new ones. The only capacitor that you are bringing up slowly is the primary side filter. The DC outputs will snap to level when the input protection allows it. Dwight >From: "J.C. Wren" > "( note: don't use a variac on a switcher supply! )" > > Why not? We do it all the time, for checking what the low and high voltage >cut-off point of a switcher is. We also vary the frequency all over the >place. I don't know switchers in general, but ours suddenly start switching >as the voltage hits 90V on the up-test, and about the same on the down-test. > > It may not be *useful* do to so for testing the device, but it won't cause >any damage in any of the number of supplies we've tested. > > --John > > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey >Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 18:16 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: RE: Altair-what do I do first > >[ snip] > >( note: don't use a variac on a switcher supply! ) >Later >Dwight > > > > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed Sep 25 20:24:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Mark-8 schematics? In-Reply-To: <3D92448F.3070504@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20020926012516.42894.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, at least the hand-drawn schematic for the CPU is. http://www.his.com/~jlewczyk/adavie/mark8/circuit1024.gif Someone on eBay was selling boards, etc to the original prints, and he had reproduced the original radio electronics package on ROM. R-E had apparently given him permission to do so. That person also had some parts. I'm somewhat familiar with the Mark-8 design, and the Scelbal machine was "better", in that it didn't use circuits that are now hard to get (never mind the mechanical aspects). Everything to build an electronic clone of a Scelbi is still available inexpensively except for, of course, the 8008 and the 1101 RAMs. The Mark-8 had a third party 2102 ram board, and these are pretty easy to get. --- Bob Shannon wrote: > I've just checked the Mark-8 links, and the only > schematic-like thing > I've found is part of the original > Intel schematic that inspired the Mark-8. > > Having found a few 8008's, I would like to see the > actual Mark-8 (or > mark-8 clone) schematics. They don't seem to be > on-line. > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Sep 25 21:23:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11/73 in GA In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020925100822.024b49f8@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020925222122.013bad9c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 09:39 AM 9/25/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, John Foust wrote: >> At 11:08 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, Merle K. Peirce wrote: >> >There is such a thing as too many wives, though, Bob. >> As Oscar Wilde put it, bigamy is having one spouse too many; >> monogamy is the same. > >Damn, I love that guy! So do I; one of the lines I like the most: "The unthinkable in pursuit of the uneatable", regarding fox hunting. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Sep 25 21:33:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020925223105.0134fca8@pop1.epm.net.co> At 10:54 PM 9/25/02 +0100, you wrote: >A better solution is to use a crowbar circuit. It's only 3 components! > > > > +5V o--------------+-----------------------+ > | | > | | > --- | > ^ | 5v6 Zener | > | | > +-------------------\ | > | \ V Thryistor/SCR > / ------ to carry full PSU current > \ 100R | > / | > \ | > | | > | | > 0V o---------------+-----------------------+ > >> ground? Seems like you'd want inline fuses between the unregulated supply >> and the backplace as well for this kind of test... > >You want something that will fail safely if the crowbar trips, sure.... A >fuse is a pretty good choice. > >-tony Excellent advice. However, repeated "accidents" can stress the SCR enough that it will eventually fail. The trick is to insure that the peak safe current for the SCR is not exceeded before the fuse blows. So you either include somewhat higher resistance wiring between the regulator output decoupling caps and the SCR or a very small inductor in series before the SCR. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Sep 26 03:00:00 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: PDP8/e Chassis Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20020926034619.00a56960@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Lawrence, I see you got that PDP8/e chassis on eBay that I posted to the list. As you now well know it wasn't me selling it, and while it wasn't anything I was interested in, I thought one of you DEC collectors might be. Bennett From spc at conman.org Thu Sep 26 03:58:01 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Was "War Games" based on real-life? In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126F55@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Sep 25, 2002 08:51:26 AM Message-ID: <200209260858.EAA22580@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Cini, Richard once stated: > > Hello, all: > > While flipping through PC Magazine this morning, I noticed the > following quote on page 26 of the 10/15/02 issue: > > "You might expect highly technical security advice from Kevin > Mitnick, whose alleged 1982 hack into NORAD inspired the movie War Games." > > This is the first time I've seen this reference. Is this true? I belive that both Kevin Mitnick *and* the producers of War Games both deny this. The producers did, however, create the concept of ``war dialing'' from which we now get ``war driving'' (which is searching for open wireless access points by driving down the street with your laptop and a wireless network card). -spc (Just found a neighbor (not sure which one) with a wireless access station nearby ... ) From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 26 08:09:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Was "War Games" based on real-life? In-Reply-To: <200209260858.EAA22580@conman.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > I belive that both Kevin Mitnick *and* the producers of War Games both > deny this. The producers did, however, create the concept of ``war > dialing'' from which we now get ``war driving'' (which is searching for open > wireless access points by driving down the street with your laptop and a > wireless network card). Actually, "war dialing" had been around long before War Games. The term "war dialing" came about as a result of the movie, but the practice had been known by other terms ("scanning" being one, which has its obvious routes in another hobby). > -spc (Just found a neighbor (not sure which one) with a wireless access > station nearby ... ) WAP hacking is the new frontier. It's just too damn easy. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Sep 26 10:10:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Mark-8 schematics? References: <20020926012516.42894.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D9323EB.2020805@tiac.net> I may be wrong here, but that is NOT the schematic for the Mark-8. If you read the description of the design written by Titus (from the same site) he clearly states that he was unsatisfied with the clock generator in the Intel design, and that it was based on four monostable multivibrators. The schematic your refering to shows the quad-monostable clock generator which Titus had redesigned for the Mark-8. So I'm thinking that the schematic in question is in fact Intel's 'original' version. The caption below the partial schematic seems to support this as well. Am I wrong here? Loboyko Steve wrote: >Actually, at least the hand-drawn schematic for the >CPU is. > >http://www.his.com/~jlewczyk/adavie/mark8/circuit1024.gif > >Someone on eBay was selling boards, etc to the >original prints, and he had reproduced the original >radio electronics package on ROM. R-E had apparently >given him permission to do so. That person also had >some parts. > >I'm somewhat familiar with the Mark-8 design, and the >Scelbal machine was "better", in that it didn't use >circuits that are now hard to get (never mind the >mechanical aspects). Everything to build an electronic >clone of a Scelbi is still available inexpensively >except for, of course, the 8008 and the 1101 RAMs. The >Mark-8 had a third party 2102 ram board, and these are >pretty easy to get. > > >--- Bob Shannon wrote: > >>I've just checked the Mark-8 links, and the only >>schematic-like thing >>I've found is part of the original >>Intel schematic that inspired the Mark-8. >> >>Having found a few 8008's, I would like to see the >>actual Mark-8 (or >>mark-8 clone) schematics. They don't seem to be >>on-line. >> >> >> >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! >http://sbc.yahoo.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020926/31370bfd/attachment.html From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Sep 26 10:32:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Was "War Games" based on real-life? In-Reply-To: <200209260858.EAA22580@conman.org> from Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner at "Sep 26, 2 04:58:32 am" Message-ID: <200209261542.IAA10106@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I belive that both Kevin Mitnick *and* the producers of War Games both > deny this. The producers did, however, create the concept of ``war > dialing'' from which we now get ``war driving'' (which is searching for open > wireless access points by driving down the street with your laptop and a > wireless network card). More reasons to stay with hard lines. (100BaseT until death, baby.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The best of all: God is with us. -- John Wesley ---------------------------- From cb at mythtech.net Thu Sep 26 11:05:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Was "War Games" based on real-life? Message-ID: >WAP hacking is the new frontier. It's just too damn easy. That makes it ideal for today's script kiddies... er um... sorry, "hackers"... I wouldn't want to have one of those 13 year olds throw a temper tantrum because I didn't use his prefered term. -chris From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Sep 26 11:21:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Was "War Games" based on real-life? References: Message-ID: <001d01c26578$b1b97f00$0100000a@deepspacenine> chris wrote: >> WAP hacking is the new frontier. It's just too damn easy. > That makes it ideal for today's script kiddies... er um... sorry, > "hackers"... I wouldn't want to have one of those 13 year olds throw a > temper tantrum because I didn't use his prefered term. While we're on the subject of script kiddies, I had one send me an ICQ IM. "I will throw you off the internet". A quick tracert later and I find he's on AOL using a dialup modem. I've got a 256k up/512k down ADSL line. He ended up consuming 18% of my incoming bandwidth with his ping-flood. I sent his ping flood back at him. His words - "you th1nk dat willl stoop me? wimp". I started another ping session and he dropped off of ICQ. Wonder why? Then there was the stupid kiddie who tried to Back Orifice my machine... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Thu Sep 26 13:05:00 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E Paper Tapes from ECRM In-Reply-To: <20020924201130.B12742@eskimo.eskimo.com> References: <000901c26435$bdcb0b40$3200a8c0@winnt> <20020924201130.B12742@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3D91A8AA000275AA@mta12n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) On Wednesday 25 September 2002 4:11 am, you wrote: > On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 09:49:09PM -0400, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > While looking through the pile of stuff I got with the PDP-8/E, I found a > > tray of papertapes from 'ECRM, INC'. The tapes are labeled as follows: > > > > Does anyone know who ECRM is/was, and what kind of machine/system these > > tapes might have been used with? ECRM made a OCR machine that used an 8/E as its brain. This machine needed a lot of extra hardware ( in the form of a few extra omnibus boards) to achieve this. Output of the operation was a papertape to be fed into a typesetting machine. Some of the ECRM omnibus boards are quite usefull : they have a two board display system, with 80x24 char output and an IO board combing fast PPT punch, fast PPT reader and serial channel, all on one omnibus board. If you need anything ispecial , I have full docs on the ECRM system. Jos Dreesen From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Thu Sep 26 13:39:01 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Leor Zolman's BDS C Now Public Domain Message-ID: Don't know how many of you are on comp.os.cpm, but in case you missed it, Leor Zolman has decided to release the full retail package of BDS C, including *ALL* source code (compiler as well!) to the Public Domain. http://www.bdsoft.com/resources.html#bdsc Check it out! Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Sep 26 14:25:01 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: American Computer Museum? Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020926142107.0227ca38@pc> Anyone ever been to this place in Bozeman, MT? http://www.compuseum.org - John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 26 14:31:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Quadri Core memory? In-Reply-To: <3D91EACF.40009@tiac.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20020924194216.618720ce@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020926151624.111fecb4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:56 PM 9/25/02 -0400, Bob wrote: >Good God Man! > >I think you have part of a Hughes HM-4118 there! > >I worked on these in the USAF, if anything remains of the machine, it >should be very easy to identify due to >the fancy packaging of the electronics. > >If you see small PCB's with a latticework of metal running under each >flat-pack IC, all under a thick layer of >conformal coating, your probably looking at the remains of an TSQ-91 >combat air traffic control system. I didn't see anyting that looked like metal running under the ICs. > >Heartbreaking if true... > >Are there any large radar consols there? Any electronics packaged in >mil-spec swing-out doors with Hughes Aircraft lables? No and no. but this stuff was well picked over before I got to it. > >The HM-4118 was quite a machine, it had a square-root function is its >machine code, and was something like a 18-bit PDP-8 or HP2100, with a >17-bit physical address space. Kinda large for a mini of its era, but >not quite a main frame either. Butt-ugly and near bullet-proof.. > >But what a vector display system it had, for real-time radar video >overlays. Super-cool to see in action. It sounds like it. I took some pictures and posted them at Joe > >Joe wrote: > >> I recently found what looked like a solid block of aluminium recently but on closer inspection it turned out to be a 64k x 18 core memory made by Quadri Corporation. It's part number is 1-0805-0015-02. It measures 1 1/2" x 6' x 9" and all the case parts are machined out of solid aluminium and it fits together so well that the joints are barely visible. It's very obviously military. It looks like it could survive WW III! I did some searching for Quadri and found that they used to be a manufacturer of high reliability core memory systems used in military aircraft, helicopters, tanks and other vehicles but they have been bought out by a company by the name of Agro-Tech and no longer exist. Does anyone know anything about the Quadri core memories or know anything about Quadri? >> >> Joe >> >> >> > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Sep 26 14:57:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Bob Wallace, R.I.P. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bob Wallace has died. He was my best friend in high school (long ago) He was the author of PC-Write He was one of the first employees of Microsoft, and one of the first to get out. He wrote their Pascal compiler and a bunch of other stuff. http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=wallace24&date=20020924 From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Sep 26 15:01:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: American Computer Museum? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020926142107.0227ca38@pc>; from jfoust@threedee.com on Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 02:21:28PM -0500 References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020926142107.0227ca38@pc> Message-ID: <20020926130210.B22822@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 02:21:28PM -0500, John Foust wrote: > > Anyone ever been to this place in Bozeman, MT? > > http://www.compuseum.org Yes, in July after my brother's wedding (which was in Big Sky). There's an impressive collection of artifacts -- a (the?) Cal-Tech prototype electronic calculator, Gutenberg Bible, replica of the Antikythera Mechanism, '60s IBM computers, Speak-And-Spell, combination calculator/ abacus, and much more. Apparently most of the collection is not on display. Most museums' exhibits have individual themes and have no relationship to each other. (i.e., you would have an office automation exhibit, a game exhibit, a scientific computing exhibit, etc.) The Compuseum tries to tie everything together in a single timeline. So the Gutenberg Bible is not related to computing, but is related to the more fundamental issues of communication and information storage, which have recently been computerized. In the modern era the timeline splits up into themes anyway, but I still liked the idea. I had a hard time seeing some things (as usual) and the signs gave almost no technical information (as usual). There's a video but I didn't watch it. In short the presentation is not designed for the technical audience. The owner was out so I wrote my questions down for later. Incidentally, the operation started after the owner's wife told him the collection was too big... "Why don't you open a museum or something?" At least that's the story I recall. -- Derek From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 26 15:34:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: American Computer Museum? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020926142107.0227ca38@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, John Foust wrote: > Anyone ever been to this place in Bozeman, MT? > > http://www.compuseum.org No, but they've been around for a few years. They seem to be making a real go at it. I haven't visited their site in a while and don't know where they are with their plans but they drew up plans for a pretty major computer history facility. They don't seem to want to collaborate with anyone else though. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Sep 26 16:11:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Bob Wallace, R.I.P. Message-ID: My condolences, Fred... Hopefully, through his contributions to the computing community, he may have terminated, but his memory will stay resident. Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 26 17:21:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <200209260031.RAA11074@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Sep 25, 2 05:31:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2274 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020926/fab85741/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 26 17:23:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020925223105.0134fca8@pop1.epm.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Sep 25, 2 10:31:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 726 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020926/8decf1fb/attachment.ksh From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Sep 26 18:29:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: American Computer Museum? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, John Foust wrote: > > > Anyone ever been to this place in Bozeman, MT? > > > > http://www.compuseum.org > > No, but they've been around for a few years. They seem to be making a > real go at it. I haven't visited their site in a while and don't know > where they are with their plans but they drew up plans for a pretty major > computer history facility. > > They don't seem to want to collaborate with anyone else though. It looks like they aren't going for exact spelling either, they've managed to spell "Macintosh" as "McIntosh" on their web site at least... -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From sloboyko at yahoo.com Thu Sep 26 18:40:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Bob Wallace, R.I.P. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020926234114.6965.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> I really enjoyed PC-write in its day. I knocked out a lot of code in it. --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > Bob Wallace has died. > > He was my best friend in high school (long ago) > > > He was the author of PC-Write > > He was one of the first employees of Microsoft, and > one of the first to > get out. He wrote their Pascal compiler and a bunch > of other stuff. > > > http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=wallace24&date=20020924 > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From ernestls at attbi.com Thu Sep 26 20:00:00 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was just wondering if any of you have had to drastically cut back on your collecting this year. I collected 20+ Apple II clones in 2001. So far this year, I think that I've picked up maybe six. Collecting old computers is a luxury, of course and this year has been hard on my wallet. I've watched several choice systems go by on ebay, and I never used to let any of them go by -even the crappy ones. Things are getting better for me but I'll sure be damned glad when this lousy year is over. People talk about Black '87 but as far as I'm concerned, '02 has been my "black" year. Ernest http://12.228.5.66 From curt at atari-history.com Thu Sep 26 20:10:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Hard year References: Message-ID: <000e01c265c2$841dc700$01000001@cvendel> Yes, I agree... I've had to pass on several items and also sell off some duplicates of items I have to get some extra $$$ to maintain the rest of the collections... times are tight and so are the purse strings :-( Hopefully on the up side.... when things get better, prices should have fallen significantly and beginning grabs at bargains should be good for all... the times of fat wallets and insultingly high Ebay prices are now over and lean times and good bargains should be on their way. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest" To: Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 9:00 PM Subject: Hard year > I was just wondering if any of you have had to drastically cut back on your > collecting this year. I collected 20+ Apple II clones in 2001. So far this > year, I think that I've picked up maybe six. Collecting old computers is a > luxury, of course and this year has been hard on my wallet. I've watched > several choice systems go by on ebay, and I never used to let any of them go > by -even the crappy ones. > > Things are getting better for me but I'll sure be damned glad when this > lousy year is over. People talk about Black '87 but as far as I'm concerned, > '02 has been my "black" year. > > Ernest > > http://12.228.5.66 > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Sep 26 20:48:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair stuff Message-ID: <200209270149.SAA11755@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Check out: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2057333335 Later Dwight From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 26 20:50:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <000e01c265c2$841dc700$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <20020927015116.69664.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Curt Vendel wrote: > Hopefully on the up side.... when things get better, prices should have > fallen significantly and beginning grabs at bargains should be good for > all... the times of fat wallets and insultingly high Ebay prices are > now over and lean times and good bargains should be on their way. Agreed. I'm seeing reasonable prices for core planes on ePay. Two years ago, I won an auction but failed to meet the reserve for a 4K PDP-8/i core stack. The reserve ($100) was five times higher than the previous stack I'd bought (not at auction) not too long before (but before the Dot-Com boom). I decided I didn't *need* a core stack for a PDP-11 that ended up going for under $50. I suppose I could have afforded it, but I need the money more than I need memory for a non-primary machine. I bid around $35-$40 and let someone else have it when it got too expensive. The same kind of board would have gone for at least $100 a couple of years ago. Good time to buy and/or hold. Bad time to sell, but if you need the $$$ right now, you gotta take what the market provides. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Sep 26 20:53:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Altair stuff Message-ID: <200209270154.SAA11760@clulw009.amd.com> Oops Did it again. I've got to check that send line. Sorry Erik. Dwight >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >Hi > Check out: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2057333335 > > >Later >Dwight > > > From archer at topnow.com Thu Sep 26 21:09:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:34 2005 Subject: Hard year References: Message-ID: <3D93BE01.A5BAE93A@topnow.com> Ernest wrote: > > I was just wondering if any of you have had to drastically cut back on your > collecting this year. You said it. The economy is not only far worse than people generally admit, but if you pay close attention to recent news, all signs point to another sharp decline that's already underway. You want a recovery? We had it, baby! That anemic little blip was it. It's all downhill from here. Despite assurances that "the economy is basically sound", too many bad factors are coming together at the same time. Many are preventable; some are inevitable. Investor confidence is low, consumers are holding onto their cash, unemployment continues to rise, and foreign investors are pulling out of the US market in droves, perceiving rightly or wrongly that the US leadership is neglecting fiscal policy (or worse, actively screwing things up), and creating problems for global stability due to reckless and/or unilateral foreign policy. Oil prices are headed upward, mostly due to defective foreign policy, which is always harmful to the economy, and the odds are good that a lot of European investors will yank their holdings out of US markets and put them into Europe or Asia. There's no up-side. There's no turn-around, or even economic news that hints at one. Of course, this kind of condition just exacerbates the tendency of people to hold tighter onto their income and cut spending, in a downward spiral. In the absence of inspiring leadership to reverse the trend, it's going to be a while before people are going to spend, let along re-enter the stock markets in large numbers needed to bring things back. Bleh. That's my analysis, take it or leave it. :) On the bright side, now that more and more people are aware of the value of these old systems, maybe a lot more will be spared from the dumpster and will end up on e-bay. That ought to increase the supply at least. Supply-side economics says that means the price should drop. :) -- Ross > I collected 20+ Apple II clones in 2001. So far this > year, I think that I've picked up maybe six. Collecting old computers is a > luxury, of course and this year has been hard on my wallet. I've watched > several choice systems go by on ebay, and I never used to let any of them go > by -even the crappy ones. > > Things are getting better for me but I'll sure be damned glad when this > lousy year is over. People talk about Black '87 but as far as I'm concerned, > '02 has been my "black" year. > > Ernest > > http://12.228.5.66 From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Sep 26 21:37:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: SE/30 odd behavior In-Reply-To: <20020917194303.89981.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020917194303.89981.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1591.4.20.168.135.1033094295.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ethan Dicks wrote about the floppy controller in early Macintosh computers: > Well... it's standard to Apple... there's a chip on there marked > "IWM" - Integrated Woz Machine. That's the "floppy controller", Replaced by the SWIM (Super Woz Integrated Machine) in the Mac IIx and newer machines, and as an upgrade to the Mac II and Mac SE. The SWIM chip supports industry-standard MFM in addition to Apple GCR format. The SWIM went through multiple generations, and got absorbed into larger chips. AFAIK, recent Macs no longer have any ability to read or write GCR format. So there isn't a "standard" floppy controller, even just amongst Macintoshes. > though > I'm not certain that 100% of the floppy functions are performed by that > chip (thinking of the Amiga where it takes two or three chips to run the > floppies - Paula, an 8520, and Gary (if present)). There might or might > not be some control-line stuff and/or analog stuff > external to the IWM. The only extra stuff was the PWM speed control signal used by the 400K drives. The later 800K and FDHD/"Superdrive" drives had integral speed control, and the connector pin used for speed control on the 400K drive became a no-connect. In the original Macintosh, the speed control was done using bytes from the same buffer as the sound output; the video controller grabbed one 16-bit word from this buffer during every horizontal retrace, and used one byte for sound and the other for disk speed. > AFAIK, it's the IWM that controls the data > clocks and handles the number of sectors-per-track changes, among > other functions. The IWM has no concept of sectors per track. In fact, it doesn't even know what sectors are! That's handled entirely by software. It works essentially the same way as the Disk ][ controller for the Apple ][. The SWIM chip probably has some idea of sectors, but I suspect that it still doesn't know how many sectors belong on a track. (The industry- standard controllers based on the WD17xx and NEC uPD765 don't know or care about how many sectors are on a track either.) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 26 21:42:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 Re: Altair stuff In-Reply-To: <200209270149.SAA11755@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020926224259.12072944@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The same guy has a manual for the Tektronix 4051 computer. See Joe At 06:49 PM 9/26/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > Check out: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2057333335 > > >Later >Dwight > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Sep 26 21:42:27 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <3D93BE01.A5BAE93A@topnow.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020926224614.485ff560@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:10 PM 9/26/02 -0700, you wrote: >Ernest wrote: >> >> I was just wondering if any of you have had to drastically cut back on your >> collecting this year. > >You said it. The economy is not only far worse than >people generally admit, but if you pay close >attention to recent news, all signs point to >another sharp decline that's already underway. >You want a recovery? We had it, baby! That anemic >little blip was it. It's all downhill from here. > >Despite assurances that "the economy is basically sound", Sound for who? The bastards that are looting their companies and their Republican pals, that's who! Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 26 21:45:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Amiga 3000 Accelerator or Amiga 4000? Message-ID: <200209270245.g8R2jvp17226@shell1.aracnet.com> I've finally found the time to get my Amiga 3000 back up and running. It's a pretty nice machine, though it has an early rev 6.1 Motherboard, I'd upgraded it to 3.1 ROMs, and have it running with the latest rev's of all the chips. I'd also gotten an Ami-Fast board to add 4 4Mb 72-pin SIMMs, instead of using ZIPs, a Hydra 10Base2 Ethernet board, and a Picasso IV video card. It currently has a 2GB HD, and an external 4x CD-ROM. My first new upgrade has been a brand new copy of Amiga OS 3.9 (well worth the $40+S&H). There is one slight problem, WinUAE is considerably faster. As the first paragraph shows, the one thing my system is missing is an Accelerator card. Does anyone happen to have either an Accelerator, or an Amiga 4000 that they'd let go cheap or for trade? Zane From red at bears.org Thu Sep 26 21:50:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: SE/30 odd behavior In-Reply-To: <1591.4.20.168.135.1033094295.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Replaced by the SWIM (Super Woz Integrated Machine) in the Mac IIx I always thought it stood for "Sony/Woz Integrated Machine". In any case, the SE/30 floppy controller certainly was implemented using a SWIM, rather than a WIM. ok r. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Sep 26 22:25:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Hard year References: <3.0.6.16.20020926224614.485ff560@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001301c265d5$95f70af0$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" > > Sound for who? The bastards that are looting their companies and their Republican pals, that's who! > I seem to recall that most of the bastards donated pretty much equal amounts of money to both sides of the aisle. Lets keep the politics out of it and get back to old, cranky, computers. I did manage to pick up a dual trace Tektronix RM-503 scope on ebay for $49.99 today :-D From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Sep 26 22:43:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Amiga 3000 Accelerator or Amiga 4000? References: <200209270245.g8R2jvp17226@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3D93D347.58A1C95F@ccp.com> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: >Does anyone happen to have either an Accelerator, or an > Amiga 4000 that they'd let go cheap or for trade? > > Zane I have an A3640 but it is an early revision that won't work in a 3k. I guess that is what you really need to find, as long as it is rev.3.1 or 3.2. My friend has a GVP accelerator, but I don't think it physically fits a desktop 3k. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From donm at cts.com Fri Sep 27 00:19:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <3D93BE01.A5BAE93A@topnow.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Ross Archer wrote: > Ernest wrote: > > > > I was just wondering if any of you have had to drastically cut back on your > > collecting this year. > > You said it. The economy is not only far worse than > people generally admit, but if you pay close > attention to recent news, all signs point to > another sharp decline that's already underway. > You want a recovery? We had it, baby! That anemic > little blip was it. It's all downhill from here. > > Despite assurances that "the economy is basically sound", > too many bad factors are coming together at the same time. > Many are preventable; some are inevitable. > Investor confidence is low, consumers are holding onto > their cash, unemployment continues to rise, and > foreign investors are pulling out of the US market in > droves, perceiving rightly or > wrongly that the US leadership is neglecting fiscal > policy (or worse, actively screwing things up), > and creating problems for global stability > due to reckless and/or unilateral foreign policy. Oil > prices > are headed upward, mostly due to defective foreign policy, > which is always harmful to the economy, > and the odds are good that a lot of European investors will > yank their holdings out of US markets and put them into > Europe > or Asia. There's no up-side. There's no turn-around, or > even > economic news that hints at one. Perhaps so, but do not overlook the fact that most of the foreign markets are also down. - don > Of course, this kind of condition just exacerbates the > tendency > of people to hold tighter onto their income and cut > spending, > in a downward spiral. In the absence of inspiring > leadership > to reverse the trend, it's going to be a while before people > are > going to spend, let along re-enter the stock markets in > large > numbers needed to bring things back. Bleh. > That's my analysis, take it or leave it. :) > > On the bright side, now that more and more > people are aware of the value of these old > systems, maybe a lot more will be spared from > the dumpster and will end up on e-bay. That > ought to increase the supply at least. Supply-side > economics says that means the price should drop. :) > > -- Ross > > > > > > > > > I collected 20+ Apple II clones in 2001. So far this > > year, I think that I've picked up maybe six. Collecting old computers is a > > luxury, of course and this year has been hard on my wallet. I've watched > > several choice systems go by on ebay, and I never used to let any of them go > > by -even the crappy ones. > > > > Things are getting better for me but I'll sure be damned glad when this > > lousy year is over. People talk about Black '87 but as far as I'm concerned, > > '02 has been my "black" year. > > > > Ernest > > > > http://12.228.5.66 > From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Sep 27 00:47:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: San Diego DEC Rescue Message-ID: Well, after wading thru miles of corporate red tape, and jumping several Dilbertian hurdles, we managed to rescue two 11/44s and two 11/23s from a Big Company in San Diego. Marvin Johnston drove from Santa Barbara (and back!) to get the machines, which are all in one 7' DEC rack. There is also an RL02, 1 (or 2?) SCSI drives attached to one of the /44s, about 20 RL02 packs, and a Blue Wall. It appears the machines are running RSX. I'll know more about them next week when I get them back up here to Quincy in the northern Sierras. Thanks go to Sellam who first alerted me to the deal *last year*, and of course to Marvin who drove over 400 miles on very short notice... More legacy machinery saved from the dumpster... if things work out I am strongly considering exhibiting at least one of the /44s at VCF 5 - along with a PR1ME 750 if we can get it's swap disk crankiness sorted out. Cheers John From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Sep 27 01:16:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020927061654.55644.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> I agree that the economy is worse than it looks at first glance. There are going to be suicides when the third Q 401(k) statements come out. And I'm not kidding. And just in time for the election. I'm fortunate to be working for a company that's pretty light, tight, and smart. I think I'm working smarter AND harder (both at work and collecting)! OTOH, I think I'm more proud to show something I've restored to good appearance and function than just having something I bought. Buying a broken, dying ADM-3A for $25.00 and then restoring it gives me more satisfaction than getting a perfectly restored one for $300. And I'd feel that way even if I HAD the $300. If there's a recession, it sure hasn't hit the hard-core geeks yet. I still get blown away on what people pay on eBay (recently, over $500 for a 4004 CPU board out of (maybe) an EPROM programmer - with PLASTIC parts, fer gods sake, never mind ceramic/white ceramic, and not an entire working computer ,either, of course). Nonetheless, you can STILL catch bargains there! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Sep 27 02:18:00 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20020927025023.05295ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> If anyone has the below part, and want's to cough it up to help the US military, let me know. Know this though, it's not my problem, and I'm not too concerned about it. If you have it, you won't be helping me, you will be helping your own military. I read that some of you hate the government, etc., but some of you are also ex-military and might be willing to assist them. I'm not going to release enough information that would make it possible for you to contact them direct, so it will go through me, or it won't go at all. If you're one of the ones that generally spouts about dealer prices and prices on eBay being too high, and feel that you should never pay anyone else very much for anything, you better have a low price yourself, or we're not going to be willing to have any involvement with you. After all, who of you would want to have anything to do with people that say one thing and do another. In Europe OK, shipping costs are not a problem. EOL OSCILLATOR,NONCRYSTAL CONTROLLED OTC-1CM-054-59-20P-A last known company to build it. Company Name and Address: L-3 COMMUNICATIONS CORP - NARDA MICROWAVE DIV 107 WOODMERE RD FOLSOM CA 95630 Phone: 916-351-4500 FAX: 916-351-4591 Bennett From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Sep 27 04:20:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: "Mail List" "Bennett" In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20020927025023.05295ec0@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020927022053.02fbbd00@mail.zipcon.net> Can't you even ONCE post ANYTHING on here without making inflammatory remarks or trying to pick a bloody fight? From cbajpai at attbi.com Fri Sep 27 05:59:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c26614$dd7979a0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> I agree...I've definitely cut back on collecting this year (not getting a paycheck made that decision easy)...it's so hard to window shop! But what amazes me is that some systems have not come down in price and in some cases set records (e.g. Apple Lisa 1, Altairs, SOL-20s, Apple I etc.)...I am amazed that some people can drop that much cash in this economy. I also observed that the supply has not gone up...I would expect more systems on the market as people would sell their "luxuries" to raise cash. I just haven't seen it. Any one agree? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ernest Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 9:01 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Hard year I was just wondering if any of you have had to drastically cut back on your collecting this year. I collected 20+ Apple II clones in 2001. So far this year, I think that I've picked up maybe six. Collecting old computers is a luxury, of course and this year has been hard on my wallet. I've watched several choice systems go by on ebay, and I never used to let any of them go by -even the crappy ones. Things are getting better for me but I'll sure be damned glad when this lousy year is over. People talk about Black '87 but as far as I'm concerned, '02 has been my "black" year. Ernest http://12.228.5.66 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 27 07:23:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <001301c265d5$95f70af0$3200a8c0@winnt> References: <3.0.6.16.20020926224614.485ff560@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020927082654.454f742e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:25 PM 9/26/02 -0400, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >> >> Sound for who? The bastards that are looting their companies and their >Republican pals, that's who! >> > > >I seem to recall that most of the bastards donated pretty much equal amounts >of money to both sides of the aisle. No, not true. The real big bastards like Ken Lay donated overwhelmingly to the Republicans. They donated some to the Democrats just so that they could say that they supported them but the Democrats main contributors have always been wealthy non-business individuals, LAWYERS, and labor unions and their members. Lets keep the politics out of it and >get back to old, cranky, computers. Sorry but losing nearly $1,000,000 in mine and my wife's retirement accounts tends to make me bitter! > >I did manage to pick up a dual trace Tektronix RM-503 scope on ebay for >$49.99 today :-D I've been picking up some good bargains on E-bay lately but the local surplus market is getting to be just about non-existant. Most of the local surplus companies are having a tough time finding ANYTHING much less anything worth while. If this is happening all over the country, and I expect that it is, I expect that it will soon affect the amount and quality of stuff showing up on E-bay. Fortunately(?) I probably have enough junk around here to keep me occupied for the next 20 years! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 27 07:24:17 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <000001c26614$dd7979a0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020927081507.4d27d5a4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:58 AM 9/27/02 -0400, you wrote: >I agree...I've definitely cut back on collecting this year (not getting >a paycheck made that decision easy)...it's so hard to window shop! But >what amazes me is that some systems have not come down in price and in >some cases set records (e.g. Apple Lisa 1, Altairs, SOL-20s, Apple I >etc.)...I am amazed that some people can drop that much cash in this >economy. It just goes to show that while most people are getting poorer there are still plenty of people around that have money to burn. > >I also observed that the supply has not gone up...I would expect more >systems on the market as people would sell their "luxuries" to raise >cash. I just haven't seen it. Any one agree? True. The people that have spent serious money on collecting aren't hurting so they're not selling. It really seems to support the saying that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Joe From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Sep 27 08:31:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020927081507.4d27d5a4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: " True. The people that have spent serious money on collecting aren't hurting so they're not selling. It really seems to support the saying that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer." Or that poor have an addiction that must be satisfied. Or have no common sense. Either describe me, I think. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 08:15 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Hard year At 06:58 AM 9/27/02 -0400, you wrote: >I agree...I've definitely cut back on collecting this year (not getting >a paycheck made that decision easy)...it's so hard to window shop! But >what amazes me is that some systems have not come down in price and in >some cases set records (e.g. Apple Lisa 1, Altairs, SOL-20s, Apple I >etc.)...I am amazed that some people can drop that much cash in this >economy. It just goes to show that while most people are getting poorer there are still plenty of people around that have money to burn. > >I also observed that the supply has not gone up...I would expect more >systems on the market as people would sell their "luxuries" to raise >cash. I just haven't seen it. Any one agree? True. The people that have spent serious money on collecting aren't hurting so they're not selling. It really seems to support the saying that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Joe From jpfinch78 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 27 08:58:01 2002 From: jpfinch78 at hotmail.com (J. Pierrepont Finch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: from 'Mail List' guy Message-ID: At 03:19 AM 9/27/2002 -0400, you wrote: >If anyone has the below part, and want's to cough it up to help the >US military, let me know. Know this though, it's not my problem, >and I'm not too concerned about it. Why aren't you concerned about it? Our military needs something and you're not concerned about it? What are you, some kind of commie pinko or somethin'? I'm shocked, shocked! >... I'm not going to release enough information that would make it possible >for you to contact them direct, so it will go through me, or it won't go at >all. Whoa -- now it sounds like you want to act as a choke point on these vitally-needed parts as well. I'm starting to get worried here, chief. >... If you're one of the ones that generally spouts about dealer prices and >prices on eBay beingtoo high, and feel that you should never pay anyone >else very much for anything, you better have a low price yourself, or we're >not going to be willing to have any involvement with you. Just hold on one darned minute! You don't care if the military gets the parts they need, you insert yourself as gatekeeper to ensure they only get what you want them to get, now you want a low cost so you can add some outrageous uplift and gouge the armed forces as well? For shame! _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Sep 27 09:57:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first References: Message-ID: <3D94727E.4040706@tiac.net> This thread is covering a lot of interesting ground, but most of it does not apply to an Altair at all. The Altair uses a linear power supply of course, and there are well-known issues with old filter caps causing problems. But realistially, how often do these old caps really fail? Lets limit this to the main filter caps in an Altair or Imsai class S-100 box. Should these caps really be 'reformed' be default when a machine is returned to service? Probably not. The first thing that should be done to such a power supply is simply to test the caps. There is a good probability that they are perfectly servicable as they are. Testing such caps can be as easy as charging them from a battery and watching the voltage decay through the bleeder resistors with a DVM. If the caps are shot, they will fail such a test. If the caps pass this sort of test, there is little justification for removing parts and risking dammage. A few resistance checks is all thats needed before you can feel quite safe before you flip the power switch for the first time. So what would I do with an Altair for the first time, the exact same thing I did when I got my Imsai 8080. I spent about 10 minutes with a DMV, and I used a small bench supply to check the caps. Checked a few resistance readings, then fired it up. It ran, and still runs perfectly, without any re-forming of caps or major disassembly. And no one mentioned one of the most common Altair failures, the original rectifier diodes had a too-low PIV rating and often fail when the machine is powered up at the wrong point in the AC power cycle. Imsai's also have this issue to a lesser degree, and its a good idea to upgrade these diodes with something a little stouter than stock. Check the diodes! From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Sep 27 10:51:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Hard year References: Message-ID: <000f01c2663d$c7942c10$75000240@oemcomputer> I will second that, since my layoff last year I have to cut back deeply. I too hope 2003 is a better year. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest" To: Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:00 PM Subject: Hard year > I was just wondering if any of you have had to drastically cut back on your > collecting this year. I collected 20+ Apple II clones in 2001. So far this > year, I think that I've picked up maybe six. Collecting old computers is a > luxury, of course and this year has been hard on my wallet. I've watched > several choice systems go by on ebay, and I never used to let any of them go > by -even the crappy ones. > > Things are getting better for me but I'll sure be damned glad when this > lousy year is over. People talk about Black '87 but as far as I'm concerned, > '02 has been my "black" year. > > Ernest > > http://12.228.5.66 > > From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Fri Sep 27 11:10:00 2002 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <000001c26614$dd7979a0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <20020927161119.2427.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chandra Bajpai wrote: I am amazed that some people can drop that > much cash in this > economy. > > I also observed that the supply has not gone up...I > would expect more > systems on the market as people would sell their > "luxuries" to raise > cash. I just haven't seen it. Any one agree? > I don't. The recession is not that serious for this to happen, median household income declined 2.2% last year, and unemployment went up 1%, that tells me the overwhelming majority of collectors still have their jobs and adequate income to collect. steve __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 27 11:23:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20020927162522.CHNU7035.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Who IS this arrogant, manipulative bloodsucker? The list has been sooooo peaceful lately . . . > From: Mail List > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: (no subject) > Date: Friday, September 27, 2002 3:19 AM First, a plea to our patriotism: > If anyone has the below part, and want's to cough it up to help the > US military, let me know. Next, a (false) attestation of indifference: > Know this though, it's not my problem, > and I'm not too concerned about it. .. and an implication that "Mail List" will not benefit from this transaction: > If you have it, you won't be helping > me, you will be helping your own military. .. followed by another attempt to appeal to our sense of patriotic duty: > I read that some of you > hate the government, etc., but some of you are also ex-military and > might be willing to assist them. But wait: > I'm not going to release enough > information that would make it possible for you to contact them direct, > so it will go through me, or it won't go at all. If he's "not too concerned" about the outcome, why is he jealously controlling the flow of information? > If you're one of the ones > that generally spouts about dealer prices and prices on eBay being > too high, and feel that you should never pay anyone else very much > for anything, you better have a low price yourself, or we're not going > to be willing to have any involvement with you. Translation: He wants to Buy Low and Sell High. > After all, who of you > would want to have anything to do with people that say one thing and > do another. I hope that none of the listmembers would choose to deal with someone who would present such a sleazy proposal. Please, whoever you are, this list is not a commercial venue. It is for those who choose to restore, preserve, collect, and USE classic computing equipment. Although many of us do trade and sell equipment, we do so in order to support our hobby, not in anticipation of a quick, fat profit at someone else's expense. If you choose to deal in these items on a for-profit basis, so be it, but this is not the place to do so. My apologies to the listmembers for the rant. Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Sep 27 11:55:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 Re: Altair stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020926224259.12072944@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: BTW I have a 4051 manual free to any one who wants to pick it up in the SF Bay Area... I will not ship it (too heavy and not enough time) Peter Wallace From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 27 11:59:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20020927025023.05295ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: Just a helpful hint: you are obnoxious. Drop the bitching and yammering already. If you have something helpful to add to the list, do so, but please put a subject line. And I still don't even know your name. Do you have Mail List on your birth certificate? If you need something, just post the request without all the superfluous guilt tripping and veiled insults. You might actually get positive responses. I know your ego is still sore from the rightful bruising it got before, but you aren't going to get any sympathy with your attitude. On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Mail List wrote: > If anyone has the below part, and want's to cough it up to help the > US military, let me know. Know this though, it's not my problem, > and I'm not too concerned about it. If you have it, you won't be helping > me, you will be helping your own military. I read that some of you > hate the government, etc., but some of you are also ex-military and > might be willing to assist them. I'm not going to release enough > information that would make it possible for you to contact them direct, > so it will go through me, or it won't go at all. If you're one of the ones > that generally spouts about dealer prices and prices on eBay being > too high, and feel that you should never pay anyone else very much > for anything, you better have a low price yourself, or we're not going > to be willing to have any involvement with you. After all, who of you > would want to have anything to do with people that say one thing and > do another. In Europe OK, shipping costs are not a problem. EOL > > > OSCILLATOR,NONCRYSTAL CONTROLLED > > OTC-1CM-054-59-20P-A > > last known company to build it. > > Company Name and Address: > L-3 COMMUNICATIONS CORP - NARDA MICROWAVE DIV > 107 WOODMERE RD > FOLSOM CA 95630 > > Phone: 916-351-4500 > FAX: 916-351-4591 > > > Bennett > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Sep 27 12:01:36 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: The Internet transmitted by ... carrier pigeon? Message-ID: <200209271711.KAA06802@stockholm.ptloma.edu> http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/ Listed here without further comment :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- BOND THEME NOW PLAYING: "The Man With the Golden Gun" ---------------------- From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 27 12:03:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <000001c26614$dd7979a0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > I agree...I've definitely cut back on collecting this year (not getting > a paycheck made that decision easy)...it's so hard to window shop! But > what amazes me is that some systems have not come down in price and in > some cases set records (e.g. Apple Lisa 1, Altairs, SOL-20s, Apple I > etc.)...I am amazed that some people can drop that much cash in this > economy. Those were the truly smart people who realized it was a bubble and pulled out at the peak ;) > I also observed that the supply has not gone up...I would expect more > systems on the market as people would sell their "luxuries" to raise > cash. I just haven't seen it. Any one agree? I think the psychology is that people are not willing to let their precious gems go for less than they think they're worth, certainly not for less than they paid for them. Everyone seems to be waiting for the immaculate economic recovery that Bush keeps promising. I hope everyone is planning to vote in this year's elections. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From schoedel at host.kw.igs.net Fri Sep 27 12:40:01 2002 From: schoedel at host.kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: The Internet transmitted by ... carrier pigeon? In-Reply-To: <200209271711.KAA06802@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <200209271741.g8RHfNF69542@host.kw.igs.net> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/ You may be particularly interested in the followup work of RFC 2549. A (possibly incomplete) list of related RFCs follows... now excuse me while I attend to my HTCPCP server. RFC0748: TELNET RANDOMLY-LOSE Option RFC1097: TELNET SUBLIMINAL-MESSAGE Option RFC1149: A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers RFC1217: Memo from the Consortium for Slow Commotion Research (CSCR) RFC1313: Today's Programming for KRFC AM 1313 Internet Talk Radio RFC1437: The Extension of MIME Content-Types to a New Medium RFC1438: Internet Engineering Task Force Statements Of Boredom (SOBs) RFC1605: SONET to Sonnet Translation RFC1606: A Historical Perspective On The Usage Of IP Version 9 RFC1607: A View from the 21st Century RFC1639: FTP Operation Over Big Address Records (FOOBAR) RFC1776: The Address is the Message RFC1925: The Twelve Networking Truths RFC1926: An Experimental Encapsulation of IP Datagrams on Top of ATM RFC1927: Suggested Additional MIME Types for Associating Documents RFC2100: The Naming of Hosts RFC2321: RITA: The Reliable Internetwork Troubleshooting Agent RFC2322: Management of IP numbers by peg-dhcp RFC2323: IETF Identification and Security Guidelines RFC2324: Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol (HTCPCP/1.0) RFC2325: Definitions of Managed Objects for Drip-Type Heated Beverage Hardware RFC2549: IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service RFC2550: Y10K and Beyond RFC2551: The Roman Standards Process -- Revision III RFC2795: The Infinite Monkey Protocol Suite (IMPS) RFC3091: Pi Digit Generation Protocol RFC3092: Etymology of "Foo" RFC3093: Firewall Enhancement Protocol (FEP) RFC3251: Electricity over IP RFC3252: Binary Lexical Octet Ad-hoc Transport From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 27 13:32:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Amiga 3000 Accelerator or Amiga 4000? In-Reply-To: <3D93D347.58A1C95F@ccp.com> References: <200209270245.g8R2jvp17226@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >"Zane H. Healy" wrote: >>Does anyone happen to have either an Accelerator, or an >> Amiga 4000 that they'd let go cheap or for trade? >> >> Zane >I have an A3640 but it is an early revision that won't work in a 3k. I >guess that is what you really need to find, as long as it is rev.3.1 or >3.2. My friend has a GVP accelerator, but I don't think it physically >fits a desktop 3k. > >Gary Hildebrand >St. Joseph, MO I'd recently looked at a picture of a GVP G-Force 040 board, and I think it would fit in a desktop 3000, as long as you didn't have an Ami-Fast board sitting over the ZIP sockets (which I do). It looks like the Mercury 040 board has the same physical problem, BUT while the GVP board will only take 8MB of GVP RAM the Mercury looks to take up to 32MB of 30-pin SIMMS. Of course the ideal solution would be a CyberStorm board, but... BTW, the following is a more or less complete list of the accelerators that have been made for the 3000. Zane A3640 Commodore 1992, USA Apollo 3040 & 3060 ACT, Germany CyberStorm Mk2 Phase5 Digital Products 1996, Germany CyberStorm Mk3 Phase5 Digital Products 1998, Germany CyberStorm PPC Phase5 Digital Products 1997, Germany G-Force 040 Great Valley Products 1992, USA Mercury 040 Progressive Peripherals & Software 1991, USA Warp Engine MacroSystem US 1994, USA -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 27 13:33:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: References: <000001c26614$dd7979a0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020927143304.0ef72d0c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:05 AM 9/27/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > >> I agree...I've definitely cut back on collecting this year (not getting >> a paycheck made that decision easy)...it's so hard to window shop! But >> what amazes me is that some systems have not come down in price and in >> some cases set records (e.g. Apple Lisa 1, Altairs, SOL-20s, Apple I >> etc.)...I am amazed that some people can drop that much cash in this >> economy. > >Those were the truly smart people who realized it was a bubble and pulled >out at the peak ;) Except that we're now finding out that many of those people weren't "truely smart" as much as being "truely insiders"! > >> I also observed that the supply has not gone up...I would expect more >> systems on the market as people would sell their "luxuries" to raise >> cash. I just haven't seen it. Any one agree? > >I think the psychology is that people are not willing to let their >precious gems go for less than they think they're worth, certainly not for >less than they paid for them. True. They're going to have to get truely desperate before they do that. > >Everyone seems to be waiting for the immaculate economic recovery that >Bush keeps promising. > >I hope everyone is planning to vote in this year's elections. Let's just hope we have someone worth voting for! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 27 13:33:34 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: The Internet transmitted by ... carrier pigeon? In-Reply-To: <200209271711.KAA06802@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020927143623.0ef7fcbe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:11 AM 9/27/02 -0700, you wrote: >http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/ > >Listed here without further comment :-) ROFL! And it all runs on bird seed! How ecological. I just hope that none of the main lines runs over my house! Joe From glinder at ews.uiuc.edu Fri Sep 27 13:43:00 2002 From: glinder at ews.uiuc.edu (Greg Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Does anyone want a big Digital Networking Switch? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020926142107.0227ca38@pc> Message-ID: Being a college student, I keep my eyes open for interesting tidbits, and last year I picked up what was my dormitory's ethernet gear when they upgraded. It's a DECHub 900 MultiSwitch. Apparently it is still a supported product, but as many computers as I own, I cannot use the 150 10BaseT ports on this monster. Here is what I have: 1 DEChub 900 Multiswitch Chassis w/ 3 power supply modules and the following units: 4 DECRepeater 900TM - These are 10 megabit 24 port hubs. 1 DECswitch 900 EF - FDDI, 2 AUI, 4 10BaseT 3 PORTSwitch 900TP - These are 24 port 10 megabit switches. I also have a DECRepeater 90/FA 10baseFL with AUI and 10Base2 All these modules fit into the fairly large DEChub rack. There is a little bit more, which live in my brother's computer room doing real work, but we never, ever see ourselves needing this many ports for any hobbyist applications. It's taking up space in my bro's back room, and if anyone wants it, lemme know. It is heavy. We played with this enough to know most of the modules work- I don't know about the FDDI interface, as when I picked it up they said it was nonfunctional, but it may not have been configured. If you want this, I'll include all the manuals/flash upgrades/etc etc that my brother and I got off Digital Network's website on a CD. It needs some work, though if you want to put it to real use- Each module has a number of fans in them, and many of them make that unhappy dying fan sound. If you happen to be in the champaign/urbana area of Illinois, and want to have a look, pick up is available. Thanks, Greg Linder glinder@uiuc.edu From dan at ekoan.com Fri Sep 27 14:05:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Prior art for multi-resolution computers? In-Reply-To: <200209270149.SAA11755@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020927150831.039d9430@enigma> Hello, I'd be interested in hearing about prior art, provable and demonstrable, that repudiates this: There is a very old patent, 1982, that Compaq owns that they claim covers any computer that displays more than one resolution on a monitor, using different horizontal scan rates, where the resultant displays are the same size on the monitor. Any comments on machines that can disprove this claim? Cheers, Dan From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Sep 27 14:17:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: The Internet transmitted by ... carrier pigeon? In-Reply-To: <200209271741.g8RHfNF69542@host.kw.igs.net> from Kevin Schoedel at "Sep 27, 2 01:41:23 pm" Message-ID: <200209271926.MAA10162@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/ > > You may be particularly interested in the followup work of RFC 2549. Yes, but what amazed me was that they actually implemented 1149, and even provide software ;-) Another nice thing about RFC1149 is that the carrier pigeons make their own audittrails. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- MOVIE IDEA: From Russia with E-mail Signature ------------------------------ From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Sep 27 14:26:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Prior art for multi-resolution computers? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020927150831.039d9430@enigma> References: <200209270149.SAA11755@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020927142146.01af75c8@ubanproductions.com> Wouldn't this patent have expired by now, or are you just curious if it was really a first at the time? Does PAL use a different horizontal scan rate than NTSC? If so, perhaps some sort of studio production computer interface would have had this ability. --tom At 03:15 PM 9/27/2002 -0400, Dan Veeneman wrote: >Hello, > >I'd be interested in hearing about prior art, provable and demonstrable, >that repudiates this: > > There is a very old patent, 1982, that Compaq owns that they claim covers > any computer that displays more than one resolution on a monitor, using > different horizontal scan rates, where the resultant displays are the same > size on the monitor. > >Any comments on machines that can disprove this claim? > > >Cheers, > >Dan > From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Sep 27 14:32:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Prior art for multi-resolution computers? Message-ID: > There is a very old patent, 1982, that Compaq owns that they claim covers Exactly how long do patents last these days? Did it not used to be 17 years (max - assuming the renewal fees were paid)? If so, has it not expired? The IBM patent server should be able to track it down (given a few more details) and (IIRC) it will tell you if it is still in force. Antonio From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 27 15:34:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <3D94727E.4040706@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Sep 27, 2 11:00:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2848 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020927/ac179a98/attachment.ksh From bill at timeguy.com Fri Sep 27 16:09:00 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Classic Computer sights in Minneapolis & Chicago? Message-ID: <20020923094900.C75264-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> I'm going to be spending a few days in Minneapolis and then road-tripping down to Chicago for a few more. Anything in particular I don't want to miss in terms of classic computer surplus, museums, robots, etc? Recommendations welcomed and appreciated. From kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com Fri Sep 27 16:09:54 2002 From: kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Apple 2 HPIB Message-ID: <000901c2638d$7e6ff440$6e00000a@f4s.xmission.com> I aquired an Apple 2 HPIB card from ebay, without documentation. Does anyone know where to find or have a copy of the Apple ][ IEEE-488 Interface Users Guide? You can find a picture of the cover here http://member.nifty.ne.jp/apple2tree/manual/manual6.htm Keven Miller kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com From vcf at siconic.com Fri Sep 27 16:10:37 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Quantum Data Corporation 801A character generator? Message-ID: Has anyone ever heard of or have a Quantum Data Corporation 801A character generator? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aek at apple.com Fri Sep 27 16:28:14 2002 From: aek at apple.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Pixel Machines Message-ID: I worked with one of the main programmers when we were both in Apple ATG. It is a box full of ATT 32C DSPs. It's worth saving. They were very neat devices at the time. The Computer Museum will probably be interested, since I don't think they have one. From aek at apple.com Fri Sep 27 16:29:21 2002 From: aek at apple.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 Message-ID: re: google search not finding anything.. "xerox 820" returns http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/xerox/820/ as the first entry, which contains all of my scanned documentation. Unfortunately, spies is down right now. Hopefully it will be back up soon. From stefan at softhome.net Fri Sep 27 16:29:55 2002 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Various DEC software for swap, sale, give away etc Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020926001515.02c79a08@pop.softhome.net> A "small" list of what I have here, I would like to swap/sell it so I can get new thingies for my own collection, but if someone really wants it badly enough I might give it away. The list : DecNet MicroVMS V4.6 Decnet-11m+ V4.0 Deckit 16mt9 Decnet-11m+ V4.0 Netkit 16mt9 Decnet-VAX F/Func RX50 DECprint Printing Services V4.0 UPD DOC DECprint Printing Services V4.0 UPD MT DECprint V4.1 16mt9 Decserver 1.2 bin TK50 Decserver 1.3 bin 16mt9 HSC Software V3.9A DOC UPD Lifespan int rtl2 VAX V2.2 MicroVMS V1.0 Pathworks VMS V4.0 TK50 RSX11M V4.2 update E MT:1600 RSX11m V4.4 BIN MT:1600 RSX11m V4.4 BRU64K MT:1600 RSX-11m-PLUS V4.2 BIN 16mt9 TU58#15 VAX TE16/TU45/77 DIAG TU58#20 VAX SYS EXR/BUSINT TU58#33 VAX BUS DIAGNOSTICS TU58#43 VAX BUS TEST DIAG TU58#5 VAX750 CACHEB/MEM/EXR TU58#52 VAX TU80 DIAGNOSTIC TU58#7 VAX 11 HARDCORE INSTR TU58#8 VAX 11 INSTR TU58#9 CR/DISK USER MODE VAX ADA V1.5 bin TK50 VAX ADA/UVMS V1.3 bin TK50 VAX BASIC V3.4 UPD TK50 VAX CDD PLUS V4.1 BIN 16mt9 VAX CDD PLUS V4.1A TUPD 16mt9 VAX CDD PLUS V4.2 16mt9 VAX CDD PLUS V4.2A UPD 16mt9 VAX CDD PLUS V4.3 UPD 16mt9 VAX Fortran V4.5-V4.8 VAX PCA V2.2 UPD 16mt9 VAX RDB/VMS V3.0B 16mt9 VAX RDB/VMS V3.1A 16mt9 VAX RDB/VMS V3.1B 16mt9 VAX/VMS V4.4 BIN 16mt9 VMS/WS SFTWR V4.1 UPD TK50 VMS/WS SFTWR V4.2 UPD DOC VMS/WS SFTWR V4.3 UPD TK50 VMS/WS SFTWR V4.4 UPD TK50 All located in the Netherlands btw but sendable all over the world. yours, Stefan. From spedraja at ono.com Fri Sep 27 16:30:39 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Free books References: <20020908225224.SHL1776.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <08ea01c265a4$27934500$0301a8c0@cavorita.net> Hello, Glen. I write you from Spain. I ma interested in get them. Let mw know the total shiping cost and packing, and I shall send it to you. I live in Santander, Spain, and use usps surface usually for these shipments. Greetigns Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: Glen Goodwin To: classiccmp Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 12:50 AM Subject: Free books > The following lot is available for the cost of postage (or pickup in > Orlando, FL). You must take them all. All on topic since they are over > ten years old. Please contact me offlist if you're interested. > > CICS Handbook (Kageyama) > Programmer's Survival Guide (Ruhl) > 1-2-3 Macro Library, 3rd Edition (Ewing) > Paul Mace Guide to Data Recovery (Mace) > Practical Image Processing in C (with diskette) (Lindley) > Novell Netware Power Tools (with diskette) (Edelhart) > Practical Guide to Database Design (Hogan) > MVS Performance Management (Samson) > Hard Disk Power (with diskette) (Jamsa) > CICS for the COBOL Programmer Part 1 (Lowe) > CICS for the COBOL Programmer Part 2 (Lowe) > > All in great shape. If no takers by Friday 9-13-2002 these will become > dumpster food as per the Bullshit Reduction Act of 2002. > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 > > If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? > And if not now, when? > -- Pirkei Avot > > From eric-no-spam-for-me at brouhaha.com Fri Sep 27 16:31:26 2002 From: eric-no-spam-for-me at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <200209242035.43021.rhudson@cnonline.net> References: <3D912028.1CDB93D@topnow.com> <200209242035.43021.rhudson@cnonline.net> Message-ID: Ron Hudson writes: > I will consider serious offers of trade.. things I would like > in working order please. [...] > Other HP gear - HP71, HP74 Oooh, I want an HP-74 also!!! Despite having no clue what it is :-) Did you perhaps mean HP-75C or HP-75D? From eric-no-spam-for-me at brouhaha.com Fri Sep 27 16:32:01 2002 From: eric-no-spam-for-me at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Was "War Games" based on real-life? In-Reply-To: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8F20@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> References: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8F20@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> Message-ID: Gooijen H writes: > What I remember from that time is that as result of the movie > questions were asked in the Senate *if* the scenario shown in > the movie *could* be possible ... No, because the military doesn't buy computers from Burger King. The rest of the movie was *completely* realistic, though. :-) From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Sep 27 16:37:16 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: PDP8/e Chassis In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20020926034619.00a56960@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <200209272137.QAA09861@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Sure, it was Joe Moir at Peripheral Parts Support. I could have bought this from him a few weeks ago, or even months ago, and i'm glad i didnt. I would have offered more money ;) I did buy a chassis from him last spring though, an Industrial 8 color scheme in very nice condition. This box I have spare parts enough to pretty much repair everything immediately, including the jumpers to add the second omnibus, except for the missing power switch assembly and missing lid... Ah well, it wouldnt be as satisfying if there wasnt one last obstacle. -Lawrence LeMay > > > Hi Lawrence, > > I see you got that PDP8/e chassis on eBay that I posted to the list. As you > now well know it wasn't me selling it, and while it wasn't anything I was > interested in, I thought one of you DEC collectors might be. > > Bennett > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 27 16:40:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Rhode & Schwarz LogICscope? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020927174352.4e6f040a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Went shopping today and found one of these. Is anyone familar with them? I guess it does the same thing as a HP Logic Clip but it's bigger. It has a clip the attaches to a 16 pin IC then about a 18" cable. On the other end of the cable is a box that measures about 4 1/2" x 3" x 1/2" with a large window on one side. Inside the window is a black panel with two rows of holes with a LED under each hole. The odd thing is that one row has eight holes and LEDs and the other has nine! I've been playing with it and haven't seen the 9th LED light up yet so I'm not sure what it's for. There also a slot at the end of the box, It looks like it's intended for the user to make a THIN paper label and insert it under the window and between the rows of LED holes. I opened it up and it's made of individual components (including lots of diodes!) except for three 7404 ICs. The ICs used in this one are all dated 1972. The whole thing is grey except for the window and it says that it was made in West Germany. Anybody know exactly what the extra LED is for? Joe From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Sep 27 16:59:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first References: Message-ID: <3D94D553.9010800@tiac.net> Look, the chances that any regulators failed while the machine was sitting unused are VERY LOW. For someone who takes the time to ask what their first step is, suggesting that they begin by removing components from the boards boarders on the absurd. The risk of causing dammage in this process is probably much higher than the chance that there is any problem in the machine. Unless something is eating the etches off your board as they sat, a formerly running Altair really should not have any open grounds on its voltage regulators. So in this specific case, yes, your paranoid! I'm be far more concerned with the idea of someone new to computer restoration is being advised to start removing parts from boards on the astronomically unlikely chance that a 7805 ground has opened. The practical reality remains that most probably, the Altair will power up and run just fine after a good cleaning. New defective components are one thing, but we can assume that the Altair was working at one point, so unless something has gone wrong, it should still be working today. As for resistance checks, I have to strongly disagree Tony. If you verify that there are no shorts caused by broken decoupling caps, loose parts, and so on, then the chances are nothing rude will happen when you flick the switch, and this is the only point behind such tests. Resistance checks have absolutley nothing to do with testing the 7905 regulators functionality whatsoever, and that is not why such tests are a good idea before applying power. The regulators generally dont fail while sitting around. Getting a bad part into a new project is a very different situation than trying to return a formerly working machine to service. No practical set of testing, other than dynamic (functional) testing can detect every possible failed component. So the question should be, what is the PRACTICAL level of testing that should be applied PRIOR to powering up the Altair. In all the replies to the original post, now many suggested ANY testing at all? My point being, its easy enough to check the power supply filter caps BEFORE attemtping any snake-oil rejunivation methods, but this was not mentioned, and you seem to agree this is probably not needed here. So why does the list as a whole sit by while reccomendations of pulling parts off of boards float by, when this is one of the VERY LAST things a beginner in vintage restoration should attempt? I agree, many vintage chips are hard to replace. So don't remove them unless its absolutley mandatory to do so, after you have isolated a real failure. The idea of a restoration should be to do as little to the machine as possible in order to return it to its original operating condition. In the case of a S-100 box like an Altair, very little is really needed before you can feel quite safe about flipping the power switch, given that the machine used to run just fine. The bottom line is just this simple, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Quite different from the advice this Altair owner got from the list. Tony Duell wrote: >>But realistially, how often do these old caps really fail? Lets limit >>this to the main filter caps in an Altair or >>Imsai class S-100 box. Should these caps really be 'reformed' be >>default when a machine is returned to service? >> >>Probably not. >> > >Agreed. I've worked on a lot of old computers and of course I've had >capacitors fail. I've had just about all components fail. But I've never >seen a computer where all the capacitors have failed due to old age. I've >just had random failures. > >>If the caps pass this sort of test, there is little justification for >>removing parts and risking dammage. A few resistance checks is all >>thats needed before you can feel quite safe before you flip the power >>switch for the first time. >> > >Sorry, but no!. > >'Cold' resistance checks will not spot a 3 terminal regulator where the >common pin has gone open-circuit or some other internal failure has >occured. Such a failure could result in the full unregulated input >voltage appearing at the output. Which will kill chips all over the machine. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020927/5075db65/attachment.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 27 17:00:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:35 2005 Subject: Quantum Data Corporation 801A character generator? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020927180101.4e6fbf82@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Sellam, Yeah I have one and I DID have the manual but I'm not sure where the manual went to. I think Mike Haas may have it but he's not answering his e-mail so I can't find out. I MAY have a PDF copy of the manual on my old PC. Basicly it's a character generator that lets you specify the dot time, number of pixels per line, pixels per character, lines, refresh time, etc etc etc AND all the electrical characteristics. I've never seen anything else that lets you control a display in such detail. In fact, it's probably too complex! Did you get the buffer box that goes with it? It's a small box about the size of a pack of cigarettes and it mounts on the end of a cable about three foot long. The buffer box has a card edge connector that brings out all the electrical signals. You put a connector on the card edge connector and connect up the monitor to the various terminals. I know that's brief but it will give you the general idea. Joe At 12:15 PM 9/24/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Has anyone ever heard of or have a Quantum Data Corporation 801A >character generator? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 27 17:00:46 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: References: <200209242035.43021.rhudson@cnonline.net> <3D912028.1CDB93D@topnow.com> <200209242035.43021.rhudson@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020927180335.4e6ff6dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:37 PM 9/26/02 -0700, you wrote: >Ron Hudson writes: >> I will consider serious offers of trade.. things I would like >> in working order please. >[...] >> Other HP gear - HP71, HP74 > >Oooh, I want an HP-74 also!!! Despite having no clue what it is :-) > >Did you perhaps mean HP-75C or HP-75D? Or a TI-74? Or perhaps even a HP-94? Joe > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Sep 27 17:02:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Quantum Data Corporation 801A character generator? References: Message-ID: <3D94D4A3.A4D82574@ccp.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Has anyone ever heard of or have a Quantum Data Corporation 801A > character generator? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ISTR they were a variation of the TRS80 computer with dedicated software for char. generation at NTSC rates. Weren't too popular. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Sep 27 17:17:00 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: PDP8/e Chassis In-Reply-To: <200209272137.QAA09861@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20020926034619.00a56960@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20020927180744.025b2ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Lawrence, Do you have a spare face plate? Shame that one was broken. I don't have one myself. In fact, I've never yet had any interest in PDP8 stuff at all, but if I see one around, I'll shoot you a message on it. Best Regards, Bennett At 04:37 PM 9/27/02 -0500, you wrote: >Sure, it was Joe Moir at Peripheral Parts Support. I could have bought this >from him a few weeks ago, or even months ago, and i'm glad i didnt. I would >have offered more money ;) > >I did buy a chassis from him last spring though, an Industrial 8 color >scheme in very nice condition. > >This box I have spare parts enough to pretty much repair everything >immediately, including the jumpers to add the second omnibus, except for >the missing power switch assembly and missing lid... Ah well, it wouldnt >be as satisfying if there wasnt one last obstacle. > >-Lawrence LeMay > > > > > > > Hi Lawrence, > > > > I see you got that PDP8/e chassis on eBay that I posted to the list. > As you > > now well know it wasn't me selling it, and while it wasn't anything I was > > interested in, I thought one of you DEC collectors might be. > > > > Bennett > > > > > > > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 27 17:42:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020927143304.0ef72d0c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > Let's just hope we have someone worth voting for! It goes without saying that we will not. I suggest you "throw your vote away" and vote for an independent. Hell, at this point I'd vote for a damn Communist! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 27 17:44:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Prior art for multi-resolution computers? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020927150831.039d9430@enigma> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > Hello, > > I'd be interested in hearing about prior art, provable and demonstrable, > that repudiates this: > > There is a very old patent, 1982, that Compaq owns that they claim covers > any computer that displays more than one resolution on a monitor, using > different horizontal scan rates, where the resultant displays are the same > size on the monitor. > > Any comments on machines that can disprove this claim? Is this request by way of the engineer from Hawaii hired by a law firm to come up with some prior art for this? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From archer at topnow.com Fri Sep 27 17:47:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year References: <20020927161119.2427.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D94E03C.AC5FDD61@topnow.com> steve wrote: > > --- Chandra Bajpai wrote: > I am amazed that some people can drop that > > much cash in this > > economy. > > > > I also observed that the supply has not gone up...I > > would expect more > > systems on the market as people would sell their > > "luxuries" to raise > > cash. I just haven't seen it. Any one agree? > > > I don't. The recession is not that serious for this to > happen, median household income declined 2.2% last > year, and unemployment went up 1%, that tells me the > overwhelming majority of collectors still have their > jobs and adequate income to collect. These numbers don't sound too serious, until you realize the nature of this unemployment (many highly-skilled, college-educated workers) vs. the employment (retail, minimum-wage, or low-wage jobs.) I know several qualified engineers working far below their ability. They're being counted as employed, but at a far lower salary, doing something they're overqualified for. Also, unemployment is grossly under-reported. There are lots of people who are out of work long enough now, that they're not being counted as unemployed anymore, due to some trickery enacted back in the 80s to make recessions seem less severe. Unemployment is almost certainly 10-15% right now, and again, note the sorts of people who were laid off that make up that "only" 1% increase. A lot of them are undoubtedly geeky computer collectors. And finally, I know so many engineers out of work personally, that I have to conclude the government is lying about the statistics they're releasing. -- Ross > > steve > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! > http://sbc.yahoo.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Sep 27 17:50:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > > Let's just hope we have someone worth voting for! > > It goes without saying that we will not. Yeah, anyone who'd be a worthwhile candidate has enough sense to not run for office. It's sad but true. -brian. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Sep 27 17:51:00 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Transputer Boards Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20020927183139.025b8ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Re: Transputer Boards I talked with a hobbyist this morning, that unfortunately since about the time of the 9/11 incident, has been out of work for the last year, and is selling some of his gear to make next month's rent. He currently sells stuff on eBay. ( note: to make as much money as he can, and he is at least honest in his open admission of it, so he has my respect for that ). He is looking for some transputer boards. I myself don't yet know anything about them, as I've never had any, or done any research on them. But if anyone has any they want to sell, let me know what you've got, and how much you want for it/them. I might be willing to buy some for him, and he and I would then trade some parts. You'd pretty much have to be wanting what he, as another hobbyist, would be willing to pay for them, so if you're not interested ( because it might not be a whole lot, I just don't know ), I would completely understand. Bennett From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 27 17:51:41 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Was "War Games" based on real-life? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 26 Sep 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Gooijen H writes: > > What I remember from that time is that as result of the movie > > questions were asked in the Senate *if* the scenario shown in > > the movie *could* be possible ... > > No, because the military doesn't buy computers from Burger King. > > The rest of the movie was *completely* realistic, though. :-) The scanning (a.k.a. "war-dialing") was very real. The speed with which the calls connected was not (less than a second between dialing and ringing...back in those days ESS was not widely deployed, maybe a few large cities had some ESS switches, but the whole country was still connected by mainly clunky analog trunking and long distance calls just did not go through that quickly). The part where he fools a payphone into giving him a dialtone by shorting the mouthpiece to the phone was a scene stolen out of reality. I'm sure Ma Bell loved that one. In the old days, when you put a coin into a payphone, the coin would actually be the object that grounded the telephone line by causing a short, which would result in the CO providing a dialtone (all payphones work on "ground-start" lines). That trick still worked years later, but only on local calls (since toll and long distance calls went through the AT&T ACTS computer for billing). I don't know if it still works, but my guess is "probably not". The scenes where he is "talking" to the computer: complete fantasy ;) I wish we AI that good even today. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 27 17:53:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Quantum Data Corporation 801A character generator? In-Reply-To: <3D94D4A3.A4D82574@ccp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > ISTR they were a variation of the TRS80 computer with dedicated software > for char. generation at NTSC rates. Weren't too popular. Are you sure about that? If so, that's pretty intriguing. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 27 17:57:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Transputer Boards In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20020927183139.025b8ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Mail List wrote: > I talked with a hobbyist this morning, that unfortunately since about the > time of the 9/11 incident, has been out of work for the last year, and is > selling some of his gear to make next month's rent. He currently sells > stuff on eBay. ( note: to make as much money as he can, and he is at > least honest in his open admission of it, so he has my respect for that ). > He is looking for some transputer boards. I myself don't yet know anything > about them, as I've never had any, or done any research on them. But if > anyone has any they want to sell, let me know what you've got, and how > much you want for it/them. I might be willing to buy some for him, and > he and I would then trade some parts. You'd pretty much have to be > wanting what he, as another hobbyist, would be willing to pay for them, > so if you're not interested ( because it might not be a whole lot, I just > don't know ), I would completely understand. Mail, this makes no sense whatsoever. Why not just post the guy's e-mail address or eBay username so those who have Transputer stuff and actually know what it does can trade with him directly? Why do you always insist on being in the middle of every "deal" you bring here? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 27 18:29:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <3D94D553.9010800@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Sep 27, 2 06:01:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 8076 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020927/99caceef/attachment.ksh From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Fri Sep 27 18:34:00 2002 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <3D94E03C.AC5FDD61@topnow.com> Message-ID: <20020927233443.98629.qmail@web12401.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ross Archer wrote: > Unemployment is almost certainly 10-15% right now, > and > again, note the sorts of people who were laid off > that > make up that "only" 1% increase. A lot of them are > undoubtedly geeky computer collectors. > > And finally, I know so many engineers out of work > personally, > that I have to conclude the government is lying > about > the statistics they're releasing. > > -- Ross > > I personally don't know any engineers out of work so I may conclude just the opposite :), however, contractors I know say they recently have been forced to take jobs at less desireable locations. 15% unemployment is hard to believe... steve __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 27 18:40:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 Message-ID: <20020927234228.INIW20456.imf07bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> ---------- > From: Al Kossow > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Xerox 820 > Date: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 6:17 PM > > re: google search not finding anything.. > > "xerox 820" returns http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/xerox/820/ > as the first entry, which contains all of my scanned > documentation. > > Unfortunately, spies is down right now. Hopefully it > will be back up soon. > Thanks Al. My wife *has* been bugging me to get new glasses ;>) Glen 0/0 From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Sep 27 19:25:01 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020927082654.454f742e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <001301c265d5$95f70af0$3200a8c0@winnt> <3.0.6.16.20020926224614.485ff560@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020927195355.0362bc18@mail.njd.concentric.com> At 08:26 AM 9/27/2002 +0000, you wrote: >At 11:25 PM 9/26/02 -0400, you wrote: > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe" > >> > >> Sound for who? The bastards that are looting their companies and their > >Republican pals, that's who! > >> > > > > > >I seem to recall that most of the bastards donated pretty much equal amounts > >of money to both sides of the aisle. > > > No, not true. The real big bastards like Ken Lay donated > overwhelmingly to the Republicans. They donated some to the Democrats > just so that they could say that they supported them but the Democrats > main contributors have always been wealthy non-business individuals, > LAWYERS, and labor unions and their members. Not to get too far afield, but that's not really the case either. Enron was pouring big bucks into the Clinton administration for access and they got it too, in spades. They made some big foreign deals (in India for instance) on the strength of their administration contacts in the late 1990s. Global Crossing screwed their stockholders and employees almost as bad as Enron did and Gary Winnick (Global Crossing's CEO) is a large, economy-sized contributor to the Democratic party. Martha Stewart (just look how some pillows and a splash of color will brighten up a drab prison cell) is a strong supporter of the Democratic party. We all know where Ted Turner's money goes. Then of course there are the big money pols themselves: Maria Cantwell of Real Networks fame, Herb Kohl of Kohl's Department Store fame, Jon Corzine of Goldman-Sachs fame, John D. Rockefeller of well, pretty much everything. The big-time bucks are flowing to both parties, don't think otherwise for a minute. > Lets keep the politics out of it and > >get back to old, cranky, computers. > > Sorry but losing nearly $1,000,000 in mine and my wife's retirement > accounts tends to make me bitter! I've been reading my 401(k) balance with a microscope as well, but there's sadly, plenty of blame to coat both sides evenly. We had a market bubble in the Nineties like the Holland Tulip Bubble of the 1600's. Accounting practices were on the edge, everyone knew it and the administration in Washington wasn't going to do a thing to rock the boat. Oh, they floated some accounting cosmetic accounting reforms at one point, which give the Dems a couple of pasties-worth of cover as they try to hammer Harvey Pitt and the SEC. But the truth is, the market was flying high, growth was through the roof and nobody, not the administration, not Congress, not the Democrats, not the Republicans, were much interested in saying, doing or even proposing anything that might possibly upset the apple cart. A pox on both their houses. The fat cats are firmly ensconced in both parties. If you don't believe that, just take a look at the net worth of the members of the Senate. According to their 2001 filings, the average net worth of a Senate Republican is $2.9 million. The average net worth of a Senate Democrat is $11 million. > > > >I did manage to pick up a dual trace Tektronix RM-503 scope on ebay for > >$49.99 today :-D > > I've been picking up some good bargains on E-bay lately but the local > surplus market is getting to be just about non-existant. Most of the > local surplus companies are having a tough time finding ANYTHING much > less anything worth while. If this is happening all over the country, and > I expect that it is, I expect that it will soon affect the amount and > quality of stuff showing up on E-bay. Fortunately(?) I probably have > enough junk around here to keep me occupied for the next 20 years! > I've seen very little local surplus pickings around here as well. There's a surplus depot for duPont locally, but unless you like Mac SEs and Pentium 60s, slim pickings. -- Tony From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Sep 27 20:24:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: PAGING stefan@softhome.net Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F77214696D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Stefan, Please drop me an email regarding your recent posting... e-mail to your address (stefan@softhome.net) bounces.... Thanks, Fred -- InterNetworking, Network Security and Communications Consultants MicroWalt Corporation (Netherlands), Postbus 8, 1400 AA BUSSUM Phone +31 (35) 6980059 FAX +31 (35) 6980215 http://WWW.MicroWalt.NL/ Dit bericht en eventuele bijlagen is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding aan derden is niet toegestaan. Er wordt geen verantwoordelijkheid genomen voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van dit bericht, noch voor de tijdige ontvangst ervan. From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Fri Sep 27 20:48:00 2002 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Bob Wallace, R.I.P. Message-ID: <002701c26691$3f013510$9865fea9@downstairs> When I first moved to Seattle in December of 1977, I checked out the local computer stores. At "The Retail Computer Store" the clerk was Bob Wallace. Bob invited me to the Northwest Computer Club meetings that were then held at the Pacific Science Center (part of the 1962 Worlds Fair.) Club officers, December 1977 http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/MySystem/ClubMembers100.jpg The Club hosted a computer fair at the Science Center. (In 1978 and 1979 it drew thousands of people.) Bob ran the first one and I was volunteered to run the fair the next year. I was glad the Bob was around to help for the second fair. The night the second fair was over, Bob and I sat around talking. He almost finished with his Masters in Computer Science at the University of Washington. (He was helping with the fair during finals week.) He was excited about his new job in Albuquerque with Microsoft. Later when I was working at Data I/O doing PLD software (ABEL), we OEMed a few thousand copies of Bob's text editor "PC-Write". Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Sep 27 21:27:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: References: <200209242035.43021.rhudson@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <200209271926.36886.rhudson@cnonline.net> On Thursday 26 September 2002 08:37 pm, Eric Smith wrote: > Ron Hudson writes: > > I will consider serious offers of trade.. things I would like > > in working order please. > > [...] > > > Other HP gear - HP71, HP74 > > Oooh, I want an HP-74 also!!! Despite having no clue what it is :-) > > Did you perhaps mean HP-75C or HP-75D? Uh yeah...right, a 75c, not a 74 75-c, with working card reader... I was sick the day someone stole my 75c out of my car (lots of homeless people around where we had to park in SF) and I guess it probably just ended up in a gutter somewhere cuz, nobody but us would pay anything for it. : ^ ( wait... wasn't the 74 the "horizontal format" hp-41c, yeah that's it, that's the ticket, horizontal format... Now my google stocks with rise because they all will be searching for days for that! : ^ ) From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Sep 27 21:28:02 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020927180335.4e6ff6dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200209242035.43021.rhudson@cnonline.net> <3.0.6.16.20020927180335.4e6ff6dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200209271927.35507.rhudson@cnonline.net> On Friday 27 September 2002 11:03 am, Joe wrote: > At 08:37 PM 9/26/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Ron Hudson writes: > >> I will consider serious offers of trade.. things I would like > >> in working order please. > > > >[...] > > > >> Other HP gear - HP71, HP74 > > > >Oooh, I want an HP-74 also!!! Despite having no clue what it is :-) > > > >Did you perhaps mean HP-75C or HP-75D? > > Or a TI-74? Or perhaps even a HP-94? ok what's a TI-74? > > Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 27 21:49:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020927143304.0ef72d0c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020927223447.4dd776c4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:44 PM 9/27/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > >> Let's just hope we have someone worth voting for! > >It goes without saying that we will not. > >I suggest you "throw your vote away" and vote for an independent. Hell, >at this point I'd vote for a damn Communist! Given the choice between "I invented the internet" Gore and "Let's start war somewhere to take people's minds off the economy" Bush I have to agree. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 27 21:49:43 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020927223757.4dd7762e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:50 PM 9/27/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: >> On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > >> > Let's just hope we have someone worth voting for! >> >> It goes without saying that we will not. > >Yeah, anyone who'd be a worthwhile candidate has enough sense >to not run for office. It's sad but true. I don't know. Maybe we could get Perot to run again. Hell, even Jesse Ventura would be an improvement over the candidates that we've had in the last few elections. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 27 21:50:23 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Quantum Data Corporation 801A character generator? In-Reply-To: References: <3D94D4A3.A4D82574@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020927224723.4dd77706@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:55 PM 9/27/02 -0700, Sellam wrote: >On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > >> ISTR they were a variation of the TRS80 computer with dedicated software >> for char. generation at NTSC rates. Weren't too popular. > >Are you sure about that? If so, that's pretty intriguing. Gary's completely wrong on this one. The 801 is a tan plastic box about a foot wide x a foot deep x 7 inches tall. It has a bunch of membrane keys on the front and about an eight (I think) character LED display. A cable about 3 foot long comes out the back and connects to a buffer box that's about the size of a pack of cigarettes. A card edge connector on the buffer box is used to connect how ever many leads are needed to connect to the monitor. It looks nothing like an TRS computer and it's too small to have a TRS computer board inside of it. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Sep 27 21:55:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: TI-74 Re: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <200209271927.35507.rhudson@cnonline.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20020927180335.4e6ff6dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200209242035.43021.rhudson@cnonline.net> <3.0.6.16.20020927180335.4e6ff6dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020927225924.4dd7635a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:27 PM 9/27/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Friday 27 September 2002 11:03 am, Joe wrote: >> At 08:37 PM 9/26/02 -0700, you wrote: >> >Ron Hudson writes: >> >> I will consider serious offers of trade.. things I would like >> >> in working order please. >> > >> >[...] >> > >> >> Other HP gear - HP71, HP74 >> > >> >Oooh, I want an HP-74 also!!! Despite having no clue what it is :-) >> > >> >Did you perhaps mean HP-75C or HP-75D? >> >> Or a TI-74? Or perhaps even a HP-94? > >ok what's a TI-74? I'm a HP fan so I can't tell you much about the TI-74 except that it's a little larger than a HP-71 and has a lid that closes like a HP 200 LX and it runs BASIC and has one ROM socket. But I do have one if you're interested in some kind of swap. I think a couple of people on this list have TI-74s so they should be able to tell you more. Somebody here on the list recently mentioned that they had a Pascal ROM for their 74. Joe From bob at copenhagen.cuug.ab.ca Fri Sep 27 22:29:17 2002 From: bob at copenhagen.cuug.ab.ca (Bob Bramwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: American Computer Museum Message-ID: <200209280315.g8S3F4p03869@babbage.pronto> >Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:21:28 -0500 >From: John Foust >Subject: American Computer Museum? > > >Anyone ever been to this place in Bozeman, MT? > > http://www.compuseum.org > >- John The American Computer Museum is quite good. However, Bozeman *is* a bit off the beaten track, and a straightforward tour (arranged as a timeline) only takes about an hour. All the exhibits are static: no blinkenlights, poppenkorken, or blowenfusen to amuse das dumbkopfen. When I was there (about 3 years ago) they didn't have anything really exotic that I can recall, but there were some quite cool electromechanical accounting machines and some fine 10 key-per-column Burroughs adding machines. There is a well stocked little gift shop. The people who run it certainly know their stuff (spelling mistakes notwithstanding). Also well worth looking into is: http://www.computerhistory.org/ located at Moffet Field, near Mountain View, CA. I was there last week, and they have some very neat stuff: part of the original ENIAC, a complete (but butchered) JOHNNIAC, a CRAY 1, a CRAY 2, the original Woz Apple prototype, and uncharted warehouses full of dusty boxes donated over the years. At present they are only open a couple of days a week. A very knowledgeable guide (who probably actually used some of the stuff they have on display) will give you a guided tour. Enjoy, Bob. | the digital divide is an issue of poverty; Bob Bramwell 60 Baker Cr. NW | if we can eliminate the information ProntoLogical Calgary, AB | barriers, we'll all live in a safer, +1 403/861-8827 T2L 1R4, Canada | more prosperous world. | - John Gage, Sun's chief researcher. From donm at cts.com Fri Sep 27 22:59:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > > > Let's just hope we have someone worth voting for! > > It goes without saying that we will not. > > I suggest you "throw your vote away" and vote for an independent. Hell, > at this point I'd vote for a damn Communist! At times like this it is a real shame that they killed the proposed ballot choice of "None of the above" of a few years ago here in California. It wooould be a natural this year! - don > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Sep 27 23:54:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year References: <20020927161119.2427.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> <3D94E03C.AC5FDD61@topnow.com> Message-ID: <00c801c266ab$2d0d1cb0$073bcd18@D73KSM11> > > --- Chandra Bajpai wrote: > > I am amazed that some people can drop that > > > much cash in this > > > economy. > > > > > > I also observed that the supply has not gone up...I > > > would expect more > > > systems on the market as people would sell their > > > "luxuries" to raise > > > cash. I just haven't seen it. Any one agree? > > > > > I don't. The recession is not that serious for this to > > happen, median household income declined 2.2% last > > year, and unemployment went up 1%, that tells me the > > overwhelming majority of collectors still have their > > jobs and adequate income to collect. > > These numbers don't sound too serious, until you realize > the nature of this unemployment (many highly-skilled, > college-educated workers) vs. the employment (retail, > minimum-wage, or low-wage jobs.) I know several > qualified engineers working far below their ability. > They're being counted as employed, but at a far lower > salary, doing something they're overqualified for. > > Also, unemployment is grossly under-reported. > There are lots of people who are out of work long enough > now, that they're not being counted as unemployed anymore, > due to some trickery enacted back in the 80s to make > recessions seem less severe. > I suspect that, in general, people on this list have been hit more severely due to the huge contraction in the IT business. This would probably be the case to some extent even if the rest of the economy was healthy. You can define unemployment many different ways. There was an investigative piece recently in the New York Times (I believe) that noted that people who are considered "disabled" are not counted as unemployed. It also turns out that about 40% or so of low-skill workers who lose their jobs, and are unable to find new work, eventually claim to be disabled. This has been a huge trend in the last decade, and when the increases in those claiming disability are backed out of the employment figures, it turns out that there was actually almost no employment growth at all during the 1990s, and that the waves of people presently claiming disability is masking a fairly steep employment decline. This year in California the governer signed legislation shifting the burden to the employer/state to prove that an employee claiming disability is actually not disabled, meaning (in the great tradition of soft-tissue injury claims) that more people will be deemed disabled. Ironically, one of the effects of this legislation will be to reduce unemployment. Whatever the condition of the economy, it isn't depressing the prices of classic stuff on eBay. I haven't bought much at all on eBay this year -- and it's only because I am getting outbid on almost everything -- even sniping doesn't work anymore! Prices in prior years have dropped dramatically during the summer, but not this year. -W From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Sep 28 04:31:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year References: Message-ID: <001d01c266d1$bf6599e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Don Maslin wrote: > On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: >> I suggest you "throw your vote away" and vote for an independent. >> Hell, at this point I'd vote for a damn Communist! > > At times like this it is a real shame that they killed the proposed > ballot choice of "None of the above" of a few years ago here in > California. It wooould be a natural this year! How about either handing it in blank or just taking a medium-tip Sharpie marker and putting a giant "X" on it? Or you could just tick both boxes... Either way, it counts as a spoiled vote. If enough people do this, I think someone will notice... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Sep 28 09:59:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first References: Message-ID: <3D95C455.9000804@tiac.net> This is getting absurd! Tony Duell wrote: >>Look, the chances that any regulators failed while the machine was >>sitting unused are VERY LOW. >> > >But the chances of you having a complete set of spare ICs is even lower. >I have a pretty well-stocked junk box (even if I say so myself) and I >wouldn't have all the chips in stock... > I think your failing to address the relative risks here. You may have good reasons for using and reccomending your particular approach to bringing up a vintage machine, but please review the advice the list as a whole has given to this Altair ower: Main filter cap restoration was reccomended without bothering to test if such a risky technique is even needed. This is simply BAD advice, period. Zero safety tests were reccomended, in fact, its not clear from the old messages just what should be done prior t0 applying power for the first time. Disassembly was reccomended to the point of removing chips from boards, despite the lack of documentation. Do you think the list gave this Altair owner good advice? I don't. >>For someone who takes the time to ask what their first step is, >>suggesting that they begin by removing >>components from the boards boarders on the absurd. The risk of causing >>dammage in this process is >>probably much higher than the chance that there is any problem in the >>machine. >> > >The risk of causing damage by removing _socketed_ parts is extremely low. > Really? Here we must agree to disagree. Old sockets suck, and Altairs generally don't use them for this reason. If I recall correctly, you had to pay extra for sockets (or was that the Imsai??). > >In fact I would argue you _must_ remove and reseat all socketed chips to >cure bad connections anyway. I wouldn't suggest desoldering chips unless >there was no alternative _and_ they were very rare _and_ you had a lot of >practice in desoldering ICs. FWIW, I _have_ once desoldered a rare custom >chip in order to rnsure a PSU wasn't going to wreck it. > Good for you. Has the Altair owner done this? Do they have the equipment needed for antistatic protection? > >To be honest, if you can't remove socketed ICs without damage then you >need to spend a bit of time practicing before starting work on an Altair >(or anything else moderately rare). > Hmmm, did anyone tell the Altair owner this Tony? >>Unless something is eating the etches off your board as they sat, a >>formerly running Altair really should >>not have any open grounds on its voltage regulators. So in this >> > >Hmmm... ICs (including regulators) can fail internally, even when just >sitting around. I have seen this happen. > Sure, and pigs sometimes fly, but the FAA is not too concerned over this. Parts can fail for apparently unknown reasons, but is this likley enough that it should determin how an old Altair is brought back to life? Once again, we may have to agree to disagree. > >Also, if any of the regulators are in TO3 cans, the ground is made via >the mounting screws. If these are loose/have oxidised then the ground may >well be open. Sure, you should check them for tightness. Sure you should >remove them and clean them. But you won't catch me then powering up the >machine with said regulator powering anything but a dummy load. Only when >I know it's OK will I add some chips. > Let me get this clear, you would REMOVE soldered-in TO-3 regulators rather than simply check that their case was grounded with an ohm meter? Thats quite some restoration style you have there. Ever restored a machine larger than a microcomputer? >>specific case, yes, your paranoid! >> >>I'm be far more concerned with the idea of someone new to computer >>restoration is being advised to start >>removing parts from boards on the astronomically unlikely chance that a >> > >Why? You're going to have to learn to remove ICs sooner or later. >Including removing soldered-in ICs without damaging chip or board. > The reason why is that the original post was seeking advice on how to safely return an Altair to operation. As you have already agreed, the chances are that ZERO chips need to be changed. How about starting with small steps, and learning new skills as needed? >>7805 ground has opened. >> >>The practical reality remains that most probably, the Altair will power >>up and run just fine after a good cleaning. >> > >Agreed. But if it doesn't then you might have a real mess on your hands. > Ahh, so perhaps the most efficient course of action is to take precautions agains messy failures, ones that would burn up etches, etc. Clearly burning up rare chips would also fall under this concept as well, so we have to go back to the relative risks envolved. IMO, having a person new to vintage restoration start by removing chips from boards is FAR more risky than applying power after a few basic tests. >>New defective components are one thing, but we can assume that the >>Altair was working at one point, so unless something has gone wrong, it >>should still be working today. >> > >Most likely it _is_ still working. But the damage caused if a regulator >has failed is sufficiently great to make it worth checking. > The Altair uses +8 unregulated. If this were applies to TTL parts, some ~might~ fail, but you are not going to destroy all of them as you suggest. So once again we are back to the question of how likley is it that such a regulator failure exists in this machine? In your own words, "most likely is _is_ still working". So how then is it any SAFER to reccomend that the original poster start pulling chips off boards? Frankly, I'd risk any chip in the machine to not mess up PCB etches, as many parts (probably) are not in sockets. The advice and discussion have gotten far too abstract, and really are not giving the original poster good advice on how to proceed and what to check for. >>As for resistance checks, I have to strongly disagree Tony. If you >>verify that there are no shorts caused by broken >>decoupling caps, loose parts, and so on, then the chances are nothing >> > >Any reasonable PSU (including every 3 terminal regulator I've worked >with) has current limiting. A shorted decoupling capacitor is not going >to do much damage. Abyway, ceramic capacitors don't short that often. > S-100 vintage decoupling caps generally don't fail I agree, but they are by far the most commonly dammaged components I find on S-100 boards, due to mechanical dammage. They get chiped and broken, often shorting. Other times they break one lead, and short something nearby. The risk here is a burnt etch. Not a huge risk, but given that this risk can be eliminated in seconds with a meter, its not an unwise thing to test, is it? > >To turn your argument back on yourself, I'd be more worried about the >open-circuit voltage of the ohmmeter doing some damage (if nothing is >shorted). Do you know the open-circuit voltage of your meter? Does a >newcomer? > Its been a long time since meters were made that would apply enough current (thats what matters, not the voltage) to dammage devices. Testing the power to ground resistance, even with something like a Simson 260, is not going to cause dammage. Once again it seems the argument is grasping at straws rather than focusing on the original posters needs. >>rude will happen when you flick the switch, and this is the only point >>behind such tests. Resistance checks have absolutley nothing to do with >>testing the 7905 regulators functionality whatsoever, and that is not >> > >The point is, though that a regulator failure will do a lot of damage. >Sure you can do resistance checks as well. You can also check for shorts >between bus lines, you can check 101 other things. Most of them will not >have the effect that a 5V line rising to 8V will have. > Hmm, I'm going to take a board full of old TTL devices, and run them at 8 volts. I'll let you know when they fail. Don't hold your breath though. >>why such tests are a good idea before applying power. >> >>The regulators generally dont fail while sitting around. Getting a bad >> > >Maybe not, but it sure can happen.... > Yes, it can happen. And if it did happen, there is a chance, not a certainty, that a device might fail. But you have already agreeded that this is most probably NOT going to happen in this case. Given that this is most probably NOT going to happen, the process of removing parts from a machine is far more likley to CAUSE problems than it is to prevent them. >>part into a new project is a very different situation than trying to >>return a formerly working machine to service. No practical set of >>testing, other than dynamic (functional) testing can detect every >>possible failed component. So the question should be, what is the >> > >Of course not. Which is why you have to test the regulator under working >conditions. Namely by giving it a suitable input voltage and load and >seeing what the output voltage is. This can only be done with the PSU >powered up, of course. > Perhaps the best test for the regulators is to leave them alone, given that they probably are working just fine. > >But equally, you choose a load which will not be damaged and/or expensive >to repair/replace if things go wrong. A 6V car bulb rather than a PCB of >unobtainable silicon... > Aren't you over-reacting to a risk that you admit is unlikely? An extender board with a fuze is a much better idea if you insist on such tests. >>PRACTICAL level of testing that should be applied PRIOR to powering up >>the Altair. >> >>In all the replies to the original post, now many suggested ANY testing >>at all? >> > >What's that got to do with it? Many people apply power to things without >doing tests first. I've seen the results in some cases (not just >computers). I've also had to sort out the resulting mess. When you >consider that a single loose screw on a regulator mounting could wipe out >the entire PCB-fuil of ICs, you take a little more care. > What that has to do with it is simply this, the list gave the original poster some BAD ADVICE. Your overstating the risks, and the potential for dammage. >>My point being, its easy enough to check the power supply filter caps >> > >FWIW, shorts in good-quality modern electrolytics are rare. A failed >capacitor will not damage any of the chips. If it shorts it might take >out the rectifier. It will blow the fuse, but unless some idiot has put a >nail in the fuseholder, it's not going to burn out the transformer. The >risk from failed smoothing capacitor is minimal. > Then why was the original poster reccomended to 'reform' the caps? > >The only real risk is mechanical damage due to the darn thing exploding. >Modern capacitors are, of course, designed to vent safely, so this is a >non-issue too. But yes, I would check them for shorts. I'd check the >rectifier diodes for shorts too. I'd stick a megger on the transformer. > Venting is a non-issue? Its really nasty stuff for your health and for the health of the machine, but I agree its not a major risk here. Thats part of why I object to the advice the poster was given by the list. > >Is it any wonder it can take me a good few weeks before powering up a new >toy. Is it also any wonder that major disasters at first power-on are >unheard-of here? > If it takes you a few weeks to power up an old S-100 box, you either have too little time, or your going in way over your head. >>BEFORE attemtping any snake-oil rejunivation methods, but this was not >>mentioned, and you seem to agree this is probably not needed here. So >>why does the list as a whole sit by while reccomendations of pulling >>parts off of boards float by, when this is one of the VERY LAST things a >>beginner in vintage restoration should attempt? >> > >Why? Take anti-static precautions (which you should do before even >opening the case on a machine like this), and pull the chips out >carefully. You _will not damage them_. I've removed thousands of ICs from >sockets and never damaged a single one.... > Once again, good for you Tony. We really are impressed. How many chips has the poster changed? Mainly, is there a really good reason to remove them? This last point may be a matter of opinion for people with experiance, but thats not who the lists replys to the poster should be written for now is it? >>I agree, many vintage chips are hard to replace. So don't remove them >>unless its absolutley mandatory to do so, after you have isolated a real >>failure. >> > >It might be too late then.... > Risk versus risk. Which risk is greater? The low probability that a regulator has failed, AND that it will dammage other components, or the risk of breaking a pin or the hermetic seal on some vintage chip? >>The idea of a restoration should be to do as little to the machine as >>possible in order to return it to its original operating condition. In >> > >Of course. Which means keeping as many of the original parts as possible >and not risking them unnecessarily. > >>the case of a S-100 box like an Altair, very little is really needed >>before you can feel quite safe about flipping the power switch, given >>that the machine used to run just fine. >> >>The bottom line is just this simple, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". >> > >That is quite the most rediculous proverb I have ever heard. Several good >books on engineering that I've read point out this is the best way to >ruin most electrical or mechanical devices. I suppose you wait for a >bearing to seize up before oiling it? I suppose you wait for a PSU to >drift far enough out of regulation to do major damage before bothering to >check and fix it? > Preventitive maintainance is not a repair, an oil change on your car is not a repair. Your grasping at straws here. And this has ZERO to do with an Altair. >> Quite different from the advice this Altair owner got from the list. >> > >Just out of curiousity, who died and made you the god of classic computing? > >-tony > Apparently one of your 7805's Tony. If you want to make this personal, take it off-list. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020928/644c29f7/attachment.html From OwnedByDogs at clearsource.net Sat Sep 28 10:24:00 2002 From: OwnedByDogs at clearsource.net (Kevin Monceaux) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11/73 in GA In-Reply-To: <001601c2642e$585872e0$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: I think I'm making progress with my fiancee. I don't know how many times I've heard "Can't you get rid of some of this stuff?" Recently she got me a VAXstation 3100/76 for my birthday off of eBay. It's the things that we both like to collect that are dangerous. We're both dog people. I had five dogs when we got together. Now I have ten. The additional five she found for me. She has six dogs. Now she's been bitten by the fish bug. I have two aquariums at my place. We're having another 100 gallon tank delivered Monday. Recently she said that she spotted a 75 gallon and 55 gallon tank listed in the local paper for a reasonable price and wants to go and take a look at them. Now if I can just get her that excited about old computers I'll either be very lucky or in big trouble. Kevin On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert F. Schaefer" > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kate Olin" > > > Hi again, Bob, > > > Sorry to bother you. You might remember I am the wife of the guy > > > who saved a VAX from the scrapheap earlier this month. > > <> > > > >Don't worry. I can put it on ebay. We'll save it. My husband is > > > looking at another DEC he wants to save. Tell me, he's considering a > > > WANG > > > too, are they as good? > > > > > Kate > > Georgia's a little far for me to go, but I sure wish MY wife was this > understanding. She had a cow at the mere suggestion of bringing home a VAX > the other day. She is under the impression I have too many old computers as > it is. I say there is no such thing as too many old computers. > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 28 10:57:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <3D95C455.9000804@tiac.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020928115415.488fb180@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:01 AM 9/28/02 -0400, Bob wrote: >This is getting absurd! > >Tony Duell wrote: > >> >>The risk of causing damage by removing _socketed_ parts is extremely low. >> >Really? Here we must agree to disagree. Old sockets suck, Bob is absolutely right here! I've had any number of boards that worked UNTIL I tried to pull the ICs then the legs on the ICs would break right at the bend. I have a HeathKit ET-3400 right now that was working till I tried to pull the 74LS241s and then legs broke on everyone one of them. My advice is to test as best you can (looking for shorted caps, etc) and leave the ICs alone! and Altairs >generally don't use them for this >reason. If I recall correctly, you had to pay extra for sockets (or was >that the Imsai??). I don't think sockets were even an option from MITS. You could buy and install them yourself but since these kits were designed for absolute minimum costs I doubt many owners were likely to pursue that. I've had two Altairs including one factory built and very few of the ICs in either of them were socketed. > >> >>In fact I would argue you _must_ remove and reseat all socketed chips to >>cure bad connections anyway. Sometimes you have to do that but I'd test it first. If you have problems then try to reseat the ICs but beware that electrolysis between the cheap sockets and ICs frequently causes the legs to corrode right at the bend and any movment will cuase the legs to fall apart. And some of those ICs are dammed hard to find now. I recently had to replace half the legs on a CDP1861 that had fallen apart. It wasn't easy. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 28 10:58:02 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <001d01c266d1$bf6599e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020928115646.488f9018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:30 AM 9/28/02 +0100, you wrote: >Don Maslin wrote: >> On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: >>> I suggest you "throw your vote away" and vote for an independent. >>> Hell, at this point I'd vote for a damn Communist! >> >> At times like this it is a real shame that they killed the proposed >> ballot choice of "None of the above" of a few years ago here in >> California. It wooould be a natural this year! >How about either handing it in blank or just taking a medium-tip Sharpie >marker and putting a giant "X" on it? Or you could just tick both boxes... >Either way, it counts as a spoiled vote. If enough people do this, I think >someone will notice... Hmm. Maybe that's what the Florida voters are doing. This is the second election in a row that has had unmarked, double marked or other screwed up ballots. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 28 10:58:44 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: E-bay Re: Hard year In-Reply-To: <00c801c266ab$2d0d1cb0$073bcd18@D73KSM11> References: <20020927161119.2427.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> <3D94E03C.AC5FDD61@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020928120119.0f573daa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:54 PM 9/27/02 -0700, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > >Whatever the condition of the economy, it isn't depressing the prices of classic >stuff on eBay. I haven't bought much at all on eBay this year -- and it's only >because I am getting outbid on almost everything -- even sniping doesn't work >anymore! Do you mean that you can't automaticly steal an auction win just by sniping? I guess that means that you'll just have to go back to bidding higher instead of sniping. GASP! Joe :-) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 28 11:04:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Quantum Data Corporation 801A character generator? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020927224723.4dd77706@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3D94D4A3.A4D82574@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020928120754.488717c4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found a picture of a QD 801. It's at But it doeswn't show the buffer box and I don't think it's included. Joe At 10:47 PM 9/27/02, you wrote: >At 03:55 PM 9/27/02 -0700, Sellam wrote: >>On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: >> >>> ISTR they were a variation of the TRS80 computer with dedicated software >>> for char. generation at NTSC rates. Weren't too popular. >> >>Are you sure about that? If so, that's pretty intriguing. > > Gary's completely wrong on this one. The 801 is a tan plastic box about a foot wide x a foot deep x 7 inches tall. It has a bunch of membrane keys on the front and about an eight (I think) character LED display. A cable about 3 foot long comes out the back and connects to a buffer box that's about the size of a pack of cigarettes. A card edge connector on the buffer box is used to connect how ever many leads are needed to connect to the monitor. It looks nothing like an TRS computer and it's too small to have a TRS computer board inside of it. > > Joe > > > From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Sep 28 11:10:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <3D95C455.9000804@tiac.net> Message-ID: OK, so if you're all worried about dead voltage regulators, why not just put a crowbar on a board when you first power it up, and make sure that it doesn't fire? Doing this one board at a time seems reasonable. If the crowbar doesn't fire, and you can measure 5V+- output from each regulator as it's powered up, you should be just fine to do a test without the crowbars. Of course, since it's a linear supply, you could (and probably should) test it first under no load and make sure you get a good +8V or so output, with good filtering. Then, you aught to be able to try powering the boards up one-at-a-time with crowbars on them, to make sure everything is OK. -- Pat On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > This is getting absurd! > > Tony Duell wrote: > > >>Look, the chances that any regulators failed while the machine was > >>sitting unused are VERY LOW. > >> > > > >But the chances of you having a complete set of spare ICs is even lower. > >I have a pretty well-stocked junk box (even if I say so myself) and I > >wouldn't have all the chips in stock... > > > > I think your failing to address the relative risks here. You may have > good reasons for using and reccomending > your particular approach to bringing up a vintage machine, but please > review the advice the list as a whole > has given to this Altair ower: > > Main filter cap restoration was reccomended without bothering to test if > such a risky technique is even needed. > This is simply BAD advice, period. Zero safety tests were reccomended, > in fact, its not clear from the old messages just what should be done > prior t0 applying power for the first time. Disassembly was reccomended > to the point of removing chips from boards, despite the lack of > documentation. > > Do you think the list gave this Altair owner good advice? > > I don't. > > >>For someone who takes the time to ask what their first step is, > >>suggesting that they begin by removing > >>components from the boards boarders on the absurd. The risk of causing > >>dammage in this process is > >>probably much higher than the chance that there is any problem in the > >>machine. > >> > > > >The risk of causing damage by removing _socketed_ parts is extremely low. > > > Really? Here we must agree to disagree. Old sockets suck, and Altairs > generally don't use them for this > reason. If I recall correctly, you had to pay extra for sockets (or was > that the Imsai??). > > > > >In fact I would argue you _must_ remove and reseat all socketed chips to > >cure bad connections anyway. I wouldn't suggest desoldering chips unless > >there was no alternative _and_ they were very rare _and_ you had a lot of > >practice in desoldering ICs. FWIW, I _have_ once desoldered a rare custom > >chip in order to rnsure a PSU wasn't going to wreck it. > > > Good for you. Has the Altair owner done this? Do they have the > equipment needed for antistatic protection? > > > > >To be honest, if you can't remove socketed ICs without damage then you > >need to spend a bit of time practicing before starting work on an Altair > >(or anything else moderately rare). > > > Hmmm, did anyone tell the Altair owner this Tony? > > >>Unless something is eating the etches off your board as they sat, a > >>formerly running Altair really should > >>not have any open grounds on its voltage regulators. So in this > >> > > > >Hmmm... ICs (including regulators) can fail internally, even when just > >sitting around. I have seen this happen. > > > > Sure, and pigs sometimes fly, but the FAA is not too concerned over > this. Parts can fail for apparently > unknown reasons, but is this likley enough that it should determin how > an old Altair is brought back to life? > > Once again, we may have to agree to disagree. > > > > >Also, if any of the regulators are in TO3 cans, the ground is made via > >the mounting screws. If these are loose/have oxidised then the ground may > >well be open. Sure, you should check them for tightness. Sure you should > >remove them and clean them. But you won't catch me then powering up the > >machine with said regulator powering anything but a dummy load. Only when > >I know it's OK will I add some chips. > > > Let me get this clear, you would REMOVE soldered-in TO-3 regulators > rather than simply check that > their case was grounded with an ohm meter? > > Thats quite some restoration style you have there. Ever restored a > machine larger than a microcomputer? > > >>specific case, yes, your paranoid! > >> > >>I'm be far more concerned with the idea of someone new to computer > >>restoration is being advised to start > >>removing parts from boards on the astronomically unlikely chance that a > >> > > > >Why? You're going to have to learn to remove ICs sooner or later. > >Including removing soldered-in ICs without damaging chip or board. > > > > The reason why is that the original post was seeking advice on how to > safely return an Altair to operation. > As you have already agreed, the chances are that ZERO chips need to be > changed. > > How about starting with small steps, and learning new skills as needed? > > >>7805 ground has opened. > >> > >>The practical reality remains that most probably, the Altair will power > >>up and run just fine after a good cleaning. > >> > > > >Agreed. But if it doesn't then you might have a real mess on your hands. > > > > Ahh, so perhaps the most efficient course of action is to take > precautions agains messy failures, ones that > would burn up etches, etc. Clearly burning up rare chips would also > fall under this concept as well, so we > have to go back to the relative risks envolved. > > IMO, having a person new to vintage restoration start by removing chips > from boards is FAR more risky > than applying power after a few basic tests. > > >>New defective components are one thing, but we can assume that the > >>Altair was working at one point, so unless something has gone wrong, it > >>should still be working today. > >> > > > >Most likely it _is_ still working. But the damage caused if a regulator > >has failed is sufficiently great to make it worth checking. > > > The Altair uses +8 unregulated. If this were applies to TTL parts, some > ~might~ fail, but you are not > going to destroy all of them as you suggest. > > So once again we are back to the question of how likley is it that such > a regulator failure exists in this machine? > > In your own words, "most likely is _is_ still working". So how then is > it any SAFER to reccomend that the > original poster start pulling chips off boards? > > Frankly, I'd risk any chip in the machine to not mess up PCB etches, as > many parts (probably) are not in sockets. > > The advice and discussion have gotten far too abstract, and really are > not giving the original poster good advice on how to proceed and what to > check for. > > >>As for resistance checks, I have to strongly disagree Tony. If you > >>verify that there are no shorts caused by broken > >>decoupling caps, loose parts, and so on, then the chances are nothing > >> > > > >Any reasonable PSU (including every 3 terminal regulator I've worked > >with) has current limiting. A shorted decoupling capacitor is not going > >to do much damage. Abyway, ceramic capacitors don't short that often. > > > S-100 vintage decoupling caps generally don't fail I agree, but they are > by far the most commonly dammaged > components I find on S-100 boards, due to mechanical dammage. They get > chiped and broken, often shorting. > Other times they break one lead, and short something nearby. > > The risk here is a burnt etch. Not a huge risk, but given that this > risk can be eliminated in seconds with a meter, its > not an unwise thing to test, is it? > > > > >To turn your argument back on yourself, I'd be more worried about the > >open-circuit voltage of the ohmmeter doing some damage (if nothing is > >shorted). Do you know the open-circuit voltage of your meter? Does a > >newcomer? > > > Its been a long time since meters were made that would apply enough > current (thats what matters, not the > voltage) to dammage devices. > > Testing the power to ground resistance, even with something like a > Simson 260, is not going to cause dammage. > > Once again it seems the argument is grasping at straws rather than > focusing on the original posters needs. > > >>rude will happen when you flick the switch, and this is the only point > >>behind such tests. Resistance checks have absolutley nothing to do with > >>testing the 7905 regulators functionality whatsoever, and that is not > >> > > > >The point is, though that a regulator failure will do a lot of damage. > >Sure you can do resistance checks as well. You can also check for shorts > >between bus lines, you can check 101 other things. Most of them will not > >have the effect that a 5V line rising to 8V will have. > > > Hmm, I'm going to take a board full of old TTL devices, and run them at > 8 volts. I'll let you know when > they fail. > > Don't hold your breath though. > > >>why such tests are a good idea before applying power. > >> > >>The regulators generally dont fail while sitting around. Getting a bad > >> > > > >Maybe not, but it sure can happen.... > > > Yes, it can happen. And if it did happen, there is a chance, not a > certainty, that a device might fail. > But you have already agreeded that this is most probably NOT going to > happen in this case. > > Given that this is most probably NOT going to happen, the process of > removing parts from a machine > is far more likley to CAUSE problems than it is to prevent them. > > >>part into a new project is a very different situation than trying to > >>return a formerly working machine to service. No practical set of > >>testing, other than dynamic (functional) testing can detect every > >>possible failed component. So the question should be, what is the > >> > > > >Of course not. Which is why you have to test the regulator under working > >conditions. Namely by giving it a suitable input voltage and load and > >seeing what the output voltage is. This can only be done with the PSU > >powered up, of course. > > > Perhaps the best test for the regulators is to leave them alone, given > that they probably are working > just fine. > > > > >But equally, you choose a load which will not be damaged and/or expensive > >to repair/replace if things go wrong. A 6V car bulb rather than a PCB of > >unobtainable silicon... > > > Aren't you over-reacting to a risk that you admit is unlikely? > > An extender board with a fuze is a much better idea if you insist on > such tests. > > >>PRACTICAL level of testing that should be applied PRIOR to powering up > >>the Altair. > >> > >>In all the replies to the original post, now many suggested ANY testing > >>at all? > >> > > > >What's that got to do with it? Many people apply power to things without > >doing tests first. I've seen the results in some cases (not just > >computers). I've also had to sort out the resulting mess. When you > >consider that a single loose screw on a regulator mounting could wipe out > >the entire PCB-fuil of ICs, you take a little more care. > > > What that has to do with it is simply this, the list gave the original > poster some BAD ADVICE. > > Your overstating the risks, and the potential for dammage. > > >>My point being, its easy enough to check the power supply filter caps > >> > > > >FWIW, shorts in good-quality modern electrolytics are rare. A failed > >capacitor will not damage any of the chips. If it shorts it might take > >out the rectifier. It will blow the fuse, but unless some idiot has put a > >nail in the fuseholder, it's not going to burn out the transformer. The > >risk from failed smoothing capacitor is minimal. > > > Then why was the original poster reccomended to 'reform' the caps? > > > > >The only real risk is mechanical damage due to the darn thing exploding. > >Modern capacitors are, of course, designed to vent safely, so this is a > >non-issue too. But yes, I would check them for shorts. I'd check the > >rectifier diodes for shorts too. I'd stick a megger on the transformer. > > > Venting is a non-issue? Its really nasty stuff for your health and for > the health of the machine, but I agree > its not a major risk here. Thats part of why I object to the advice the > poster was given by the list. > > > > >Is it any wonder it can take me a good few weeks before powering up a new > >toy. Is it also any wonder that major disasters at first power-on are > >unheard-of here? > > > If it takes you a few weeks to power up an old S-100 box, you either > have too little time, or your going > in way over your head. > > >>BEFORE attemtping any snake-oil rejunivation methods, but this was not > >>mentioned, and you seem to agree this is probably not needed here. So > >>why does the list as a whole sit by while reccomendations of pulling > >>parts off of boards float by, when this is one of the VERY LAST things a > >>beginner in vintage restoration should attempt? > >> > > > >Why? Take anti-static precautions (which you should do before even > >opening the case on a machine like this), and pull the chips out > >carefully. You _will not damage them_. I've removed thousands of ICs from > >sockets and never damaged a single one.... > > > Once again, good for you Tony. We really are impressed. > > How many chips has the poster changed? > > Mainly, is there a really good reason to remove them? This last point > may be a matter of opinion for > people with experiance, but thats not who the lists replys to the poster > should be written for now is it? > > >>I agree, many vintage chips are hard to replace. So don't remove them > >>unless its absolutley mandatory to do so, after you have isolated a real > >>failure. > >> > > > >It might be too late then.... > > > > Risk versus risk. Which risk is greater? The low probability that a > regulator has failed, AND that it will > dammage other components, or the risk of breaking a pin or the hermetic > seal on some vintage chip? > > >>The idea of a restoration should be to do as little to the machine as > >>possible in order to return it to its original operating condition. In > >> > > > >Of course. Which means keeping as many of the original parts as possible > >and not risking them unnecessarily. > > > >>the case of a S-100 box like an Altair, very little is really needed > >>before you can feel quite safe about flipping the power switch, given > >>that the machine used to run just fine. > >> > >>The bottom line is just this simple, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". > >> > > > >That is quite the most rediculous proverb I have ever heard. Several good > >books on engineering that I've read point out this is the best way to > >ruin most electrical or mechanical devices. I suppose you wait for a > >bearing to seize up before oiling it? I suppose you wait for a PSU to > >drift far enough out of regulation to do major damage before bothering to > >check and fix it? > > > Preventitive maintainance is not a repair, an oil change on your car is > not a repair. Your grasping at straws here. > > And this has ZERO to do with an Altair. > > >> Quite different from the advice this Altair owner got from the list. > >> > > > >Just out of curiousity, who died and made you the god of classic computing? > > > >-tony > > > Apparently one of your 7805's Tony. If you want to make this personal, > take it off-list. > > > > -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Sep 28 11:22:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020928115415.488fb180@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > > This is getting absurd! Understatement. It passed absurd long ago. If a socket is so crusty that it breaks pins, then it probably isn't making good electrical contact, and the chip should be pulled and reseated anyway. Try pressing down on the chip BEFORE pulling up. If you can break the pins loose first, it's likely to come out intact. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Sep 28 11:29:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: E-bay Re: Hard year References: <20020927161119.2427.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> <3D94E03C.AC5FDD61@topnow.com> <3.0.6.16.20020928120119.0f573daa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001101c2670c$5f5af460$073bcd18@D73KSM11> > At 09:54 PM 9/27/02 -0700, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > >Whatever the condition of the economy, it isn't depressing the prices of classic > >stuff on eBay. I haven't bought much at all on eBay this year -- and it's only > >because I am getting outbid on almost everything -- even sniping doesn't work > >anymore! > > Do you mean that you can't automaticly steal an auction win just by sniping? I guess that means that you'll just have to go back to bidding higher instead of sniping. GASP! > > > Joe :-) Joe, I'm sure it just kills you, me and everyone else on the list that sells on eBay when you have to sell your stuff to that last second high bidder. Darn! If only eBay's rules allowed us to cancel that bid. Of course we could avoid the ethical dilemma of selling to snipers by offering to the list first . . . 8-) -W From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Sep 28 12:31:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20020927162522.CHNU7035.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Who IS this arrogant, manipulative bloodsucker? The list has been sooooo > peaceful lately . . . This is "Bennett", right? Is it the same guy who used to post with a return addy of dec.parts@verizon.net - "Info from LSI"? Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Sep 28 13:32:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020927223757.4dd7762e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > >Yeah, anyone who'd be a worthwhile candidate has enough sense > >to not run for office. It's sad but true. > > I don't know. Maybe we could get Perot to run again. Hell, even Jesse Ventura would be an improvement over the candidates that we've had in the last few elections. I voted for Nader. I'd do it again. I also voted for Ross Perot in '92 (?), and I'd have voted for him more if he'd run again. Nader is a fanatic, and Perot is a crook, but at least neither one is owned. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Sep 28 15:14:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Yeah, anyone who'd be a worthwhile candidate has enough sense > > to not run for office. It's sad but true. ANYBODY who would deliberately run for office, by that action has demonstrated that they are unfit for it. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 28 15:42:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:36 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020927223757.4dd7762e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020928164505.3307be42@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:33 PM 9/28/02 -0500, Doc wrote: >On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > >> >Yeah, anyone who'd be a worthwhile candidate has enough sense >> >to not run for office. It's sad but true. >> >> I don't know. Maybe we could get Perot to run again. Hell, even Jesse Ventura would be an improvement over the candidates that we've had in the last few elections. > > I voted for Nader. I'd do it again. I also voted for Ross Perot in >'92 (?), and I'd have voted for him more if he'd run again. Nader is a >fanatic, and Perot is a crook, but at least neither one is owned. At least they're smart fanatic/crooks. :-) Seriously, I was impressed with Perot, no matter if you agree with his politics or not, he had enough sense to know that you couldn't fix the problems in this country by simply throwing more money at them. That alone sets him apart from any current politician. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 28 15:44:05 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020928164609.444f73f4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:15 PM 9/28/02 -0700, Fred wrote: >> > Yeah, anyone who'd be a worthwhile candidate has enough sense >> > to not run for office. It's sad but true. > >ANYBODY who would deliberately run for office, by that action has >demonstrated that they are unfit for it. Let's all vote for Fred! > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Sep 28 15:48:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020928164609.444f73f4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > >ANYBODY who would deliberately run for office, by that action has > >demonstrated that they are unfit for it. > > Let's all vote for Fred! If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will run to Canada. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Sep 28 15:50:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F77214697E@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > Let's all vote for Fred! Thanks! :-) I would have voted for Clinton, though, just so y'all know.. --fred From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Sep 28 15:52:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F77214697F@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> The song "Blame Canada" from South Park comes to mind... --fred From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 28 15:57:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F77214697E@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020928170052.4f3fc9ba@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:50 PM 9/28/02 +0200, you wrote: >> Let's all vote for Fred! >Thanks! :-) > >I would have voted for Clinton, though, just so y'all know.. > >--fred What do you mean "would have"? Either you voted for him or you didn't? (I voted for none of the above both times he ran) Joe > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 28 15:59:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F77214697F@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020928170228.510f78ec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:52 PM 9/28/02 +0200, you wrote: >The song "Blame Canada" from South Park comes to mind... > >--fred Is that where it came from? I first heard it on the radio a couple of days ago. It's a hoot! Joe > From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Sep 28 16:01:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F772146980@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > What do you mean "would have"? Either you voted for him or > you didn't? (I voted for none of the above both times he ran) Given the fact that although I live in the US (most of the year), they still wont let me vote... *sigh* Hence, "would have". --f From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Sep 28 16:05:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F772146981@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> yeah, from "SP - The Movie". Cartman's mom (or was it Kyle's) goes to war against the Canadians after she finds the kids' minds are poised by the new Terrance&Philip (adult-)movie. The "war march" song is Blame Canada ;-) --f From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 28 16:17:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F772146980@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020928172033.510ff648@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:02 PM 9/28/02 +0200, you wrote: >> What do you mean "would have"? Either you voted for him or >> you didn't? (I voted for none of the above both times he ran) >Given the fact that although I live in the US (most of the year), >they still wont let me vote... *sigh* Hence, "would have". Oh, I thought you'd been here long enough to be a citizen. Joe From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Sep 28 16:23:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F772146982@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> uhm, yes. well. clinton agreed. bush didnt. his first action in-office was to freeze all pending INS requests. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 7:21 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Hard year > > > At 11:02 PM 9/28/02 +0200, you wrote: > >> What do you mean "would have"? Either you voted for him or > >> you didn't? (I voted for none of the above both times he ran) > >Given the fact that although I live in the US (most of the year), > >they still wont let me vote... *sigh* Hence, "would have". > > Oh, I thought you'd been here long enough to be a citizen. > > Joe > > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Sep 28 16:42:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Yeah, anyone who'd be a worthwhile candidate has enough sense > > > to not run for office. It's sad but true. > > ANYBODY who would deliberately run for office, by that action has > demonstrated that they are unfit for it. You must be a fan of Arthur C. Clarke Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Sep 28 16:53:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > ANYBODY who would deliberately run for office, by that action has > > demonstrated that they are unfit for it. > > You must be a fan of Arthur C. Clarke I gave some of my programming students an assignment of completing the program in "Nine Billion Names of God". I don't think that they've done it yet. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 28 16:58:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F772146982@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020928180108.444f70ec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:23 PM 9/28/02 +0200, you wrote: >uhm, yes. well. clinton agreed. bush didnt. his first action >in-office was to freeze all pending INS requests. Just proves that you didn't know hpow to work the system. If you would have floated in on a raft, you'd automaticly been granted residence. If you'd sneaked across the border from Mexico, you'd been granted citizenship! I'll stop here before my blood pressure gets any higher! Joe > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] >> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 7:21 PM >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: RE: Hard year >> >> >> At 11:02 PM 9/28/02 +0200, you wrote: >> >> What do you mean "would have"? Either you voted for him or >> >> you didn't? (I voted for none of the above both times he ran) >> >Given the fact that although I live in the US (most of the year), >> >they still wont let me vote... *sigh* Hence, "would have". >> >> Oh, I thought you'd been here long enough to be a citizen. >> >> Joe >> >> >> > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Sep 28 17:02:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > ANYBODY who would deliberately run for office, by that action has > > > demonstrated that they are unfit for it. > > > > You must be a fan of Arthur C. Clarke > > I gave some of my programming students an assignment of completing the > program in "Nine Billion Names of God". You Bastard. ;) Now I have to dig it out and read it again.... Doc From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Sep 28 17:04:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F772146983@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> dude, how'd you float in on a raft loaded with PDP-11's VAXen and the occasional Sun? > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 8:01 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Hard year > > > At 11:23 PM 9/28/02 +0200, you wrote: > >uhm, yes. well. clinton agreed. bush didnt. his first action > >in-office was to freeze all pending INS requests. > > Just proves that you didn't know hpow to work the system. > If you would have floated in on a raft, you'd automaticly > been granted residence. If you'd sneaked across the border > from Mexico, you'd been granted citizenship! > > I'll stop here before my blood pressure gets any higher! > > Joe > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > >> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 7:21 PM > >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >> Subject: RE: Hard year > >> > >> > >> At 11:02 PM 9/28/02 +0200, you wrote: > >> >> What do you mean "would have"? Either you voted for him or > >> >> you didn't? (I voted for none of the above both times he ran) > >> >Given the fact that although I live in the US (most of the year), > >> >they still wont let me vote... *sigh* Hence, "would have". > >> > >> Oh, I thought you'd been here long enough to be a citizen. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> > >> > > > > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Sep 28 17:12:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year References: Message-ID: <3D962922.2040507@jetnet.ab.ca> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > >>>ANYBODY who would deliberately run for office, by that action has >>>demonstrated that they are unfit for it. >> >> You must be a fan of Arthur C. Clarke > > > I gave some of my programming students an assignment of completing the > program in "Nine Billion Names of God". > > I don't think that they've done it yet. > > Now that was punch card output right! :) From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Sep 28 17:17:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F772146983@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > dude, how'd you float in on a raft loaded with PDP-11's VAXen and the > occasional Sun? Raft, barge... What's the difference? -brian. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Sep 28 17:21:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <3D962922.2040507@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > program in "Nine Billion Names of God". > Now that was punch card output right! :) The original story mentioned binding printouts. From n4fs at monmouth.com Sat Sep 28 17:29:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year References: <3.0.6.16.20020927143304.0ef72d0c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020927223447.4dd776c4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <008201c2673d$e0793120$d2775243@n4fs> Guys, I lived under communism. I am very happy here. You are all welcome to move. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 10:34 PM Subject: RE: Hard year > At 03:44 PM 9/27/02 -0700, you wrote: > >On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > > > >> Let's just hope we have someone worth voting for! > > > >It goes without saying that we will not. > > > >I suggest you "throw your vote away" and vote for an independent. Hell, > >at this point I'd vote for a damn Communist! > > Given the choice between "I invented the internet" Gore and "Let's start war somewhere to take people's minds off the economy" Bush I have to agree. > > Joe > > > > From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Sep 28 17:33:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F772146984@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Communism is one extreme (yes, I know what its like), but current and/or recent U.S. politics is another.... --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Feher [mailto:n4fs@monmouth.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 12:25 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Hard year > > > > Guys, I lived under communism. I am very happy here. You are > all welcome to > move. Regards - Mike > > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS > 89 Arnold Blvd. > Howell NJ, 07731 > (732) 901-9193 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 10:34 PM > Subject: RE: Hard year > > > > At 03:44 PM 9/27/02 -0700, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Joe wrote: > > > > > >> Let's just hope we have someone worth voting for! > > > > > >It goes without saying that we will not. > > > > > >I suggest you "throw your vote away" and vote for an > independent. Hell, > > >at this point I'd vote for a damn Communist! > > > > Given the choice between "I invented the internet" Gore > and "Let's > start war somewhere to take people's minds off the economy" > Bush I have to > agree. > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Sep 28 17:50:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20020927162522.CHNU7035.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020928155101.04d77800@mail.zipcon.net> At 12:32 PM 9/28/02 -0500, you wrote: > This is "Bennett", right? Is it the same guy who used to post with a >return addy of dec.parts@verizon.net - "Info from LSI"? Yes, it is From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Sep 28 17:52:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year References: Message-ID: <3D963275.3070700@jetnet.ab.ca> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > The original story mentioned binding printouts. True but having the entire print out done with modern equipment don't feel right with the era of the story. BTW how big would that printout be? From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Sep 28 18:01:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <3D963275.3070700@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > The original story mentioned binding printouts. > True but having the entire print out done with modern > equipment don't feel right with the era of the story. > BTW how big would that printout be? 14 7/8" greenbar? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Sep 28 18:19:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year References: Message-ID: <3D9638EB.5080603@jetnet.ab.ca> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > >>>The original story mentioned binding printouts. >> >>True but having the entire print out done with modern >>equipment don't feel right with the era of the story. >>BTW how big would that printout be? > > > 14 7/8" greenbar? err how many sheets? From marvin at rain.org Sat Sep 28 18:35:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year References: <3.0.6.16.20020928180108.444f70ec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D963CE7.D9359136@rain.org> Joe wrote: > > At 11:23 PM 9/28/02 +0200, you wrote: > >uhm, yes. well. clinton agreed. bush didnt. his first action > >in-office was to freeze all pending INS requests. > > Just proves that you didn't know hpow to work the system. If you would have floated in on a raft, you'd automaticly been granted residence. If you'd sneaked across the border from Mexico, you'd been granted citizenship! > > I'll stop here before my blood pressure gets any higher! > > Joe Just to contribute to this OT discussion, Clinton seemed to be "form over substance" with character playing a very secondary role. (/OT) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 28 18:57:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <3D95C455.9000804@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Sep 28, 2 11:01:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 17115 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020928/e22770a7/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Sep 28 18:58:59 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020928155101.04d77800@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > At 12:32 PM 9/28/02 -0500, you wrote: > > This is "Bennett", right? Is it the same guy who used to post with a > >return addy of dec.parts@verizon.net - "Info from LSI"? > > Yes, it is Well, I told everyone that wanted to know that I'd hold my tongue unless he started fucking around again. Looks like he's fucking around again. About February or so, I was working part-time for a local scrapper, and on a pickup run we were shown a DEC rack, and asked if we would take it. My boss said yes, I said nothing, while memorizing the label and what details I could, and the owners said they'd call when the red tape was ready. Some of y'all might remember what happened after that. I posted to ClassicCmp that night, asking if a PDP-11/93 was worth buying at 2x scrap rates. The next day, my OTHER boss, who is also my best friend, called to tell me that some guy was trying to queer my pitch. Evidently, Bennett tracked our company website from my email address, and found Mark's business number and email. Mark said Bennett sent him several emails, then called to tell him that the merchandise "I was telling him was worthless" was actually very valuable, and offered to buy it directly from Mark. He forwarded Mark a very nicely edited copy of my post to CCmp, making it look like I knew the machine was valuable, and that I intended to mislead my employer about that. Mark, being my friend, never told Bennett that he had no clue what was going on, or that I had another job that involved salvage. He simply told the guy that he would ask me about it, He also told Bennett that if we got the PDP-11, he would get back in touch. His presence of mind kept Bennett from tracking down my other employer, who *would* have sold it out from under me. Mark then called me, told me what was happening, and told me "If you can't afford it, MDR will pick it up, and we'll take this asshole for a ride on it." Like I said, he's my friend. If anybody wants to see this in print, I have my original post, and the forwarded copies of "Info from LSI's" email to my boss. And Bennett, just in case you wondered since then, I *did* get that rack. It was indeed a /93, with a M8981-BA, a M5977-AA, and a M3106, with an RZ24 and TZ30. And, the identical backup unit came with it. Same configuration. For a total cost of $80. I'm not usually given to profanity on public lists, but, Fuck You, ya stupid jerk. I win. Doc From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Sep 28 19:56:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020928155101.04d77800@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020928204221.54b732be@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Good for you, Doc! Joe At 06:57 PM 9/28/02 -0500, Doc wrote: >On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > >> At 12:32 PM 9/28/02 -0500, you wrote: >> > This is "Bennett", right? Is it the same guy who used to post with a >> >return addy of dec.parts@verizon.net - "Info from LSI"? >> >> Yes, it is > > Well, I told everyone that wanted to know that I'd hold my tongue >unless he started fucking around again. Looks like he's fucking around >again. > > About February or so, I was working part-time for a local scrapper, >and on a pickup run we were shown a DEC rack, and asked if we would take >it. My boss said yes, I said nothing, while memorizing the label and >what details I could, and the owners said they'd call when the red tape >was ready. > > Some of y'all might remember what happened after that. I posted to >ClassicCmp that night, asking if a PDP-11/93 was worth buying at 2x >scrap rates. The next day, my OTHER boss, who is also my best friend, >called to tell me that some guy was trying to queer my pitch. > > Evidently, Bennett tracked our company website from my email address, >and found Mark's business number and email. Mark said Bennett sent him >several emails, then called to tell him that the merchandise "I was >telling him was worthless" was actually very valuable, and offered to >buy it directly from Mark. He forwarded Mark a very nicely edited copy >of my post to CCmp, making it look like I knew the machine was valuable, >and that I intended to mislead my employer about that. > > Mark, being my friend, never told Bennett that he had no clue what was >going on, or that I had another job that involved salvage. He simply >told the guy that he would ask me about it, He also told Bennett that >if we got the PDP-11, he would get back in touch. His presence of mind >kept Bennett from tracking down my other employer, who *would* have sold >it out from under me. > > Mark then called me, told me what was happening, and told me "If you >can't afford it, MDR will pick it up, and we'll take this asshole for a >ride on it." Like I said, he's my friend. > > If anybody wants to see this in print, I have my original post, and >the forwarded copies of "Info from LSI's" email to my boss. > > And Bennett, just in case you wondered since then, I *did* get that >rack. It was indeed a /93, with a M8981-BA, a M5977-AA, and a M3106, >with an RZ24 and TZ30. > And, the identical backup unit came with it. Same configuration. > For a total cost of $80. > > I'm not usually given to profanity on public lists, but, > > Fuck You, ya stupid jerk. I win. > > Doc > > > From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 28 21:00:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20020929020249.TZEY12648.imf04bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Doc Shipley > And Bennett, just in case you wondered since then, I *did* get that > rack. It was indeed a /93, with a M8981-BA, a M5977-AA, and a M3106, > with an RZ24 and TZ30. > And, the identical backup unit came with it. Same configuration. > For a total cost of $80. Nice score, Doc. > I'm not usually given to profanity on public lists, but, > > Fuck You, ya stupid jerk. I win. Right on! I remember this scenario very well, and every so often since then I've wondered who on this list would pull such a low-down trick. Thanks for clearing this up. Perhaps now the rat will stop polluting this list and crawl back to where he belongs. Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Sep 28 21:35:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first References: Message-ID: <3D966793.90503@tiac.net> Perhaps this thread needs to be changed to "What not to do first...". Tony Duell wrote:: > >I guess you're relatively new here. > Perhaps I've not been on the list for many years, but I've got a few decades in the industry Tony. > >What's the problem with taking things apart???? > Simply put, in your own words... >>Fine. However, the first rule of restoration of _anything_ is not to make >>matters worse. >> Pulling soldered-in IC's will cause far more long-term reliability problems than you seem to be aware of. This is especially true for older devices that were not as well treated prior to packaging, and gas permiable packages used on older TTL chips. But as I'll get to later, this process WILL dammage even new chips. > >Secondly, PCB etches are normally quite easy to repair. Solder a bit of >wire-wrap wire across the break. ICs are not easy to repair. Why are you >so concerned about the PCBs? > Because it greatly effects the original condition of the machine. > >Look, I don't know who you are, I don't know what experience you've had >repairing classic computers. I do know what I've done. I do know what >I've seen happen when a PSU goes crazy. I also know I could desolder >every chip in an Altair without damaging either IC or PCB if I had to. As >for pulling ICs from sockets, well, I wouldn't even think about damaging >anything before doing that. > FYI... I've done engineering work for companies like Lisp Machine Inc, Thinking Machines Inc, Apollo Computer, and NEC. I also had the great pleasure to work at the MIT AI lab, but my formal training comes from the USAF where I maintained combat air traffic control and electronic warfare systems. I've got well over two decades in the industry, and I've been restoring vintage computer hardware for over15 years. So basically I've done engineering on computers with more CPU's than your talking about having chips in your CPU. I have been around the block more than a few times Tony. >>Then why was the original poster reccomended to 'reform' the caps? >> > >I don't recall ever suggesting this.... > Please review the thread. So far the original poster has been told to reform the caps with zero testing, and now also to begin to unsolder the damn chips from the PCB's. And Altairs do not use sockets. Perhaps this is your restoration technique, but its not mine. > >ROFL again. Based on your comments here I suspect I've worked on machines >where, based on the (lack of) available documentation, you wouldn't have a >clue how to start.... > Is that so? Maybe you should check to see if I was one of the ones who originally designed them before you make any more foolish assumptions. Your getting a little bit more than arrogant here Tony. > >Perhaps the reason it takes me so long before powering up a machine is >that I like to make sure I'm not going to damage anything. I don't like >making problems worse. > By unsoldering the chips? If you think this does the least dammage, your grossly in error. As a test engineer, I can direct you to any number of volumes that will show you the dramatic increase in MTBF for resoldered parts. This is known, for-sure dammage, not some risk of dammage from a theoretical regulator failure. Care to defend this position? From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Sep 28 21:46:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first References: Message-ID: <3D966A40.5020901@tiac.net> This would be much much safer for the machine that any unsldering, however skilled. Unsoldering WILL greatly reduce the service life of chips, old or new. The older, the greater this effect, but its very measurable even with the newest parts made. Using a crowbar is an excellent suggestion really, if your super-concerned about rare chips, a clip-on crowbar will trip faster than TTL devices are dammaged by an over-voltage condition. Patrick Finnegan wrote: >OK, so if you're all worried about dead voltage regulators, why not just >put a crowbar on a board when you first power it up, and make sure that it >doesn't fire? Doing this one board at a time seems reasonable. If the >crowbar doesn't fire, and you can measure 5V+- output from each regulator >as it's powered up, you should be just fine to do a test without the >crowbars. > >Of course, since it's a linear supply, you could (and probably should) >test it first under no load and make sure you get a good +8V or so output, >with good filtering. Then, you aught to be able to try powering the >boards up one-at-a-time with crowbars on them, to make sure everything is >OK. > >-- Pat > From fernande at internet1.net Sat Sep 28 23:31:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year References: <3.0.6.16.20020927143304.0ef72d0c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020927223447.4dd776c4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <008201c2673d$e0793120$d2775243@n4fs> Message-ID: <3D9681E7.10001@internet1.net> Mike Feher wrote: > Guys, I lived under communism. I am very happy here. You are all welcome to > move. Regards - Mike as did my Dad, Aunt, and grandparents. No country is perfect, and there are things I don't like in America, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Sep 29 00:07:00 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Back on topic- NOS tapes for sale Message-ID: <28.2d37bb93.2ac7e4ad@aol.com> Finally for everyone's enjoyment, something on topic: Ive got a bunch of tapes, some old some not so old and the prices can't be beat. here's the list: 8 verbatim dc2120 2pack 25 bernoulli 44meg 5.25 disks 3pack 1 KAO 3.5 hard disk cartridge for syquest drives 105Meg 5 3M compactape II Digital TK70 compatible 6 3M DC2060 QIC-40 thetamat format 60meg 7 3M DC2060 QIC-40 kappamat format 60/120meg 10 3M DC2080 Irwin80 compatible Rhomat format 80/160meg 5 3M DC2080 80meg 5 3M DC2120 120meg QIC/irwin 40/80 compatible 4 sony 3080XLF 2/4G QICwide 2 3M DC2000 thetamat format 40meg 1 3M DC2750 750meg 1 Imation MC3000XL 680meg 1 Verbatim DC2060 QIC-40-MC 1 Verbatim MC3000XL 2 Verbatim MC3010XL 4 Sony 2120QIC80 120meg 8 Verbatim MC3020XL 6 KAO MC3000XL QIC3020 4 3M DC2120 Rhomat format Irwin80 compatible 120/240meg 6 Sony QW3020XLF 850/1.7G 29 Exatape MC3000XL 1Gig 22 Universal MC3000XL QIC-3010 340meg 9 Imation 5gig minicarts for Dittomax drive 14 3M drive upgrade kit. inc. 2 2120XL Ximat format tapes&arcade backup app 5 pack colorado QIC3020 tapes for Jumbo1400 tape drive 4 3M DC600A 60meg 2 Verbatim DC9200 3 Verbatim DC9250 3 Sony QD9210 QIC2100C standard 2.1G 2 Conner QW5122F 420meg 1 Imation SLR50 50Gig 1 Sony SDX-T3N 25Gig 3 Sony QG15M 600meg 4 Verbatim MC3020EX 1.6Gig 4 8mm tape cleaners 2 3M 230meg optical disks 4 Fuji HIFD 200meg disks 3 Verbatim DC2120extra 400/800meg 8 boxes of 5pack Universal DC2120XL ~50 KAO DC2120XL ~55 Maxell MC3000XL 22 Computer grade Maxell cassette tapes 29 Imation MC3000XL Taumat format 680m/1.36Gig ~60 Sony QW5122F 200/420meg 20 Imation DC2000 40meg 1 Imation DC2080 80meg 14 3M DC2000 Kappamat format 40meg 13 Imation DC2010 Ximat format 120/240meg ~50 Sony 2120XLF 170meg ~30 KAO 5.25 syquest disks 88meg Let's say .50c for the 2120 and 2120xl types, $2 for everything else and maybe a little more for the very high capacity ones. volume discounts too and this stuff can ship USPS media rate so it's very affordable. get yours now! -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From ebbsoft at directvinternet.com Sun Sep 29 01:24:00 2002 From: ebbsoft at directvinternet.com (Eric Bal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20020927201025.00aa00d0@email.hudsonet.com> I still have three of HP 9000/520 computers, both mono & color, plus have a model 540, and have many boards and cables for them. I programmed these for years, but long ago. Eric From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Sep 29 06:24:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: any interest in deskjets? Message-ID: <002e01c267aa$df3c7de0$7f469280@george> I've got several located in Columbus, Ohio that I really don't want. Anybody want 'em before I set them out by the curb? They're basically untested, but it's a pretty good bet the pickup tires are going bad. :) I can dig up model #'s if anyone's interested. Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Sep 29 06:45:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: WTT IRIX CD Message-ID: <003401c267ad$ca747c70$7f469280@george> I've got an unopened IRIX CD here, `IRIX 5.3 for Indy R4400 175MHz' (#813-0336-001) that I'd like to trade for a version that will install on a 4D/30, preferably with XFS. Bob From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sun Sep 29 07:50:00 2002 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Free DEC-ish stuff in DC Message-ID: <3D96F75C.nail61E11RF5O@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> OK, time for another round of cleaning. All of the following is available immediately, just inside the Washington DC Beltway (I-495). Pick up only; no shipping. E-mail me at "shoppa@trailing-edge.com" if you're interested. Qty 5 RL02 drives. Take them all and get a free DEC H960 rack with power controller too. (You just have to help me lug it out of the basement...) Qty 2 rack-mount BA23 chassis. Random cards inside, I let you pick over my box of old Q-bus junk too. Qty 1 floor-standing BA23 chassis. Most of a Microvax III inside. One BA123, most of a Microvax II inside. Some 5.25" FH SCSI and ESDI drives. In the few hundred MB to 2 Gbyte range. At least two 600MB Magento-Optical 5.25" cartridge drives, SCSI interface. Dozens and dozens of cartridges too. A bunch of RL02 packs in a stand-up roll-down-door Wright-Line cabinet. I'd prefer to give these to whoever takes the RL02 drives. A few random RL01 carts mixed in. A DEC Alpha 3000/300 with greyscale monitor. Again, E-mail me at "shoppa@trailing-edge.com" if you're interested; do not reply to this account, please. Tim. From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sun Sep 29 08:03:01 2002 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Free 8" floppy drives, near Washington DC Message-ID: <3D96FA59.nail61E21SOIK@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Same conditions as the DEC stuff: You pick up only. A bunch of Shugart 8" floppy drives, electrically identical to SA801's but the aluminum castings are slightly wider than a real SA801. (Maybe these are SA901's? I don't know.) E-mail me at "shoppa@trailing-edge.com" if interested. Tim. From foo at siconic.com Sun Sep 29 09:33:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <008201c2673d$e0793120$d2775243@n4fs> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > Guys, I lived under communism. I am very happy here. You are all welcome to > move. Regards - Mike Mike, I understand your sentiment, but there is no excuse for what we have for a political system currently, and who we have in office. Just because other systems were much worse than ours does not mean that we should not seek to make ours more honorable. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Sep 29 09:53:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Free DEC-ish stuff in DC In-Reply-To: <3D96F75C.nail61E11RF5O@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <3D96F75C.nail61E11RF5O@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <20020929150829.GE25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tim Shoppa, from writings of Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 08:51:40AM -0400: > Qty 5 RL02 drives. Take them all and get a free DEC H960 rack with > power controller too. (You just have to help me lug it out of the > basement...) Is that the full-height rack? Wow, I really need one of those, and some of the hardware used to hold drives in the rack, for my 11/44 and its RL02 drives. No space for any of those drives, however, as I already have about three or four of them. Presently my 11/44 chasis is in a little non-DEC rack that also holds one RL02... this rack is something that I want to give away once I get a larger rack. Is anyone interested in this non-DEC rack? If anyone else, locally, wants the drives, and other stuff mentioned, and not the rack, I'll be glad to split the cost of renting a truck for a day with them. > Some 5.25" FH SCSI and ESDI drives. In the few hundred MB to 2 Gbyte > range. I'd better not... these drives seem to multiply when no one's looking. Thanks for posting this info! -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Sep 29 10:13:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first References: <3.0.6.16.20020929081532.4fcf959e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D971938.6060608@tiac.net> Thanks for catching my typo Joe. The MTBF (mean time between failures) is greatly REDUCED by unsoldering chips, often very dramatically so. Ever notice the soldering specifications for TTL devices, like 300 degrees C for not more than 10 seconds? This limitation is given for the parts to meet their rated MTBF, not because 300 degrees C for 11 seconds will destroy the parts right away. Resolder the parts, and you may be throwing away well over half their service life. Clearly not a professional way to restore a machine. For some repairs, we have no other option, but melting solder is a last resort. Joe wrote: >At 10:38 PM 9/28/02 -0400, you wrote: > > >>If you think this does the least dammage, your grossly in error. As a >>test engineer, I can direct you to any number >>of volumes that will show you the dramatic increase in MTBF >> > > I think you mean dramatic DECREASE in MTBF. But I doubt many people on this list even truely understand what MTBF is. I worked in reliablility, logisitics and maintainablity so I'm prpobably one of the few that would catch this. > > Joe > > > > > > for > >>resoldered parts. This is known, for-sure dammage, not some risk of >>dammage from a theoretical regulator failure. >> >>Care to defend this position? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > From n4fs at monmouth.com Sun Sep 29 10:36:01 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year References: Message-ID: <00b101c267cc$e68d3b80$d2775243@n4fs> Sellam - I agree, completely. I also voted for Perot. But, between Clinton and Bush, at least to me, there is a world of difference. I still cannot believe that the majority of the American people voted for Clinton, for two terms. I am not claiming that Bush is perfect, but, he is a heck of a lot better in every respect than Clinton, from what I can see, from an engineer's perspective. As someone else pointed out previously, the people that can really do a decent job at being president, unfortunately will not run, or do not have the finances to even get it started if they were to. So, our choices are limited. But, at least, we do have choices. Fortunately in this country, I believe we have the momentum, and the will of the American people, to make things continue, properly, during any administration. Fluctuations in economy and world opinion will continue regardless. I am a consultant, for the military, and as of the new fiscal year I do not have a job. I do not blame any one for that. I will make something work out, as I have enough confidence in myself and my abilities even at 57. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Hard year > On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > > > Guys, I lived under communism. I am very happy here. You are all welcome to > > move. Regards - Mike > > Mike, I understand your sentiment, but there is no excuse for what we have > for a political system currently, and who we have in office. > > Just because other systems were much worse than ours does not mean that we > should not seek to make ours more honorable. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From at258 at osfn.org Sun Sep 29 11:00:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year In-Reply-To: <00b101c267cc$e68d3b80$d2775243@n4fs> Message-ID: Well Mike, as an engineer, I think Clinton has proven he was better at getting his whistle blown. :) On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > > Sellam - > > I agree, completely. I also voted for Perot. But, between Clinton and Bush, > at least to me, there is a world of difference. I still cannot believe that > the majority of the American people voted for Clinton, for two terms. I am > not claiming that Bush is perfect, but, he is a heck of a lot better in > every respect than Clinton, from what I can see, from an engineer's > perspective. As someone else pointed out previously, the people that can > really do a decent job at being president, unfortunately will not run, or do > not have the finances to even get it started if they were to. So, our > choices are limited. But, at least, we do have choices. Fortunately in this > country, I believe we have the momentum, and the will of the American > people, to make things continue, properly, during any administration. > Fluctuations in economy and world opinion will continue regardless. I am a > consultant, for the military, and as of the new fiscal year I do not have a > job. I do not blame any one for that. I will make something work out, as I > have enough confidence in myself and my abilities even at 57. Regards - Mike > > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS > 89 Arnold Blvd. > Howell NJ, 07731 > (732) 901-9193 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 10:34 AM > Subject: Re: Hard year > > > > On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > > > > > Guys, I lived under communism. I am very happy here. You are all welcome > to > > > move. Regards - Mike > > > > Mike, I understand your sentiment, but there is no excuse for what we have > > for a political system currently, and who we have in office. > > > > Just because other systems were much worse than ours does not mean that we > > should not seek to make ours more honorable. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From n4fs at monmouth.com Sun Sep 29 11:45:01 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Hard year References: Message-ID: <010401c267d6$ce40a300$d2775243@n4fs> Merle - I think it was more than his whistle. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle K. Peirce" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 12:01 PM Subject: Re: Hard year > Well Mike, as an engineer, I think Clinton has proven he was better at > getting his whistle blown. :) > > On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > > > > > Sellam - > > > > I agree, completely. I also voted for Perot. But, between Clinton and Bush, > > at least to me, there is a world of difference. I still cannot believe that > > the majority of the American people voted for Clinton, for two terms. I am > > not claiming that Bush is perfect, but, he is a heck of a lot better in > > every respect than Clinton, from what I can see, from an engineer's > > perspective. As someone else pointed out previously, the people that can > > really do a decent job at being president, unfortunately will not run, or do > > not have the finances to even get it started if they were to. So, our > > choices are limited. But, at least, we do have choices. Fortunately in this > > country, I believe we have the momentum, and the will of the American > > people, to make things continue, properly, during any administration. > > Fluctuations in economy and world opinion will continue regardless. I am a > > consultant, for the military, and as of the new fiscal year I do not have a > > job. I do not blame any one for that. I will make something work out, as I > > have enough confidence in myself and my abilities even at 57. Regards - Mike > > > > > > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS > > 89 Arnold Blvd. > > Howell NJ, 07731 > > (732) 901-9193 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sellam Ismail" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 10:34 AM > > Subject: Re: Hard year > > > > > > > On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > > > > > > > Guys, I lived under communism. I am very happy here. You are all welcome > > to > > > > move. Regards - Mike > > > > > > Mike, I understand your sentiment, but there is no excuse for what we have > > > for a political system currently, and who we have in office. > > > > > > Just because other systems were much worse than ours does not mean that we > > > should not seek to make ours more honorable. > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > Festival > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Sep 29 12:35:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon Message-ID: Yesterday I ran across someone that has a fairly large supply of Tek Oscilliscopes available with all the pluggins (I believe they're the 7704A model). They were well cleaned prior to storage and they've been kept in a very clean environment. He said prior to storing them they all worked, but prior to selling any he'd want to recheck them. I gather he wants a fair price (it sounded reasonable to me), and would be willing to ship (for an additional cost). If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll put you in contact with him. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Sep 29 12:38:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <3D966793.90503@tiac.net> References: <3D966793.90503@tiac.net> Message-ID: <200209291035.50440.rhudson@cnonline.net> Hey Everyone! Tempers seem to be getting a little heated here. ; ^ ) Thanks for all the great suggestions, Those of you who suggest the technically harder things to do, I am sure, do it out of care for detail and best interest. I have not even gotten the machine yet, I may never. It's from a stranger, (X of a co-worker) who mentioned it once. I will not press the person because I have no real right to the machine. If I do get it, I will probably trade. My knowledge of actuall electronics is somewhat limited, I know what a capacitor is but I can't really identify types on sight. I don't even know what a crowbar is, except that large metal prying tool used to open crates. From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Sep 29 12:56:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <200209291035.50440.rhudson@cnonline.net> Message-ID: "I don't even know what a crowbar is, except that large metal prying tool used to open crates." They're also useful for attempting to bludgeon some sense into individuals that carry on certain threads *far* past their expected lifetime. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 13:36 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Altair-what do I do first Hey Everyone! Tempers seem to be getting a little heated here. ; ^ ) Thanks for all the great suggestions, Those of you who suggest the technically harder things to do, I am sure, do it out of care for detail and best interest. I have not even gotten the machine yet, I may never. It's from a stranger, (X of a co-worker) who mentioned it once. I will not press the person because I have no real right to the machine. If I do get it, I will probably trade. My knowledge of actuall electronics is somewhat limited, I know what a capacitor is but I can't really identify types on sight. I don't even know what a crowbar is, except that large metal prying tool used to open crates. From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Sep 29 13:09:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:37 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > "I don't even know what a crowbar is, except that large metal > prying tool used to open crates." > > They're also useful for attempting to bludgeon some sense into individuals > that carry on certain threads *far* past their expected lifetime. > > --John Not as useful as a good sledgehammer or cattle prod... ( does this email qualify me for application of those? ) -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Sep 29 14:05:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Free DEC-ish stuff in DC References: <3D96F75C.nail61E11RF5O@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <20020929150829.GE25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3D974F17.CD459E9@compsys.to> >"R. D. Davis" wrote: > If anyone else, locally, wants the drives, and other stuff mentioned, > and not the rack, I'll be glad to split the cost of renting a truck > for a day with them. Jerome Fine replies: I am too far away in Toronto to consider this trip, however, if anyone is heading north to get back home, I am interested in the magneto optical drives. I acquired a large number of the media for a Sony SMO S501 drive last year and would like a backup drive or even two. > > Some 5.25" FH SCSI and ESDI drives. In the few hundred MB to 2 Gbyte > > range. > I'd better not... these drives seem to multiply when no one's looking. I would be interested in an XT8760E as a backup spare. I also have a number of ST32550N 2 GByte drives which I intend to use for a few years to run RT-11 on both a real PDP-11 and a PC under Ersatz-11. You are right - I think that they must have rabbit genes! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Sep 29 15:18:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first References: Message-ID: <3D9760A2.9040409@tiac.net> Good luck getting the machine. Should it arrive, there are many people whoo can give you reliable advice, off-list. Apparently some people have the idea that threads have some preset life-span, no matter how on-topic they might be. J.C. Wren wrote: > "I don't even know what a crowbar is, except that large metal >prying tool used to open crates." > > They're also useful for attempting to bludgeon some sense into individuals >that carry on certain threads *far* past their expected lifetime. > > --John > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >Behalf Of Ron Hudson >Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 13:36 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Altair-what do I do first > > > >Hey Everyone! > >Tempers seem to be getting a little heated here. ; ^ ) > >Thanks for all the great suggestions, Those of you who suggest the >technically >harder things to do, I am sure, do it out of care for detail and best >interest. > >I have not even gotten the machine yet, I may never. It's from a stranger, >(X >of a co-worker) who mentioned it once. I will not press the person because >I >have no real right to the machine. > >If I do get it, I will probably trade. My knowledge of actuall electronics >is >somewhat limited, I know what a capacitor is but I can't really identify >types on sight. I don't even know what a crowbar is, except that large metal >prying tool used to open crates. > > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Sep 29 15:46:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <3D9760A2.9040409@tiac.net> Message-ID: I was actually thinking more of the Hard Year thread, which has degenerated way too far. This thread was interesting with some good recommendations about do's and dont's. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 16:21 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Altair-what do I do first Good luck getting the machine. Should it arrive, there are many people whoo can give you reliable advice, off-list. Apparently some people have the idea that threads have some preset life-span, no matter how on-topic they might be. J.C. Wren wrote: > "I don't even know what a crowbar is, except that large metal >prying tool used to open crates." > > They're also useful for attempting to bludgeon some sense into individuals >that carry on certain threads *far* past their expected lifetime. > > --John > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >Behalf Of Ron Hudson >Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 13:36 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Altair-what do I do first > > > >Hey Everyone! > >Tempers seem to be getting a little heated here. ; ^ ) > >Thanks for all the great suggestions, Those of you who suggest the >technically >harder things to do, I am sure, do it out of care for detail and best >interest. > >I have not even gotten the machine yet, I may never. It's from a stranger, >(X >of a co-worker) who mentioned it once. I will not press the person because >I >have no real right to the machine. > >If I do get it, I will probably trade. My knowledge of actuall electronics >is >somewhat limited, I know what a capacitor is but I can't really identify >types on sight. I don't even know what a crowbar is, except that large metal >prying tool used to open crates. > > > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sun Sep 29 16:08:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: ADM-3A Keyswitch Contacts In-Reply-To: <200209291035.50440.rhudson@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <20020929210900.52701.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> I just picked up an unused keyboard assembly much like (but not laid out exactly like) an LSI ADM-3A's. I got it primarily for spare parts for my ADM-3A's, but someone had mentioned to me that they wished that they had keyboard contact and/or plunger replacements. I now have more than I will ever need in the future; if someone needs these, please email me. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Sep 29 16:56:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Zane H. Healy, from writings of Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 10:36:27AM -0700: > Oscilliscopes available with all the pluggins (I believe they're the 7704A [...] > If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll put you in contact with him. If they were Tek 500 series 'scopes, this would be an interesting offer, but having become spoiled by the excellent display, and very sharp traces, over the past two decades, on the 500 series models, unlike any other 'scopes, no other 'scopes will do. :-) Alas, biz 'droids always have to go introducing horrid new and disimproved models when they're selling things that people like. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Sep 29 18:06:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon References: <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> I've got a Tek 547, complete with scope cart and several plug-ins I'd be willing to part with. R. D. Davis wrote: >Quothe Zane H. Healy, from writings of Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 10:36:27AM -0700: > >>Oscilliscopes available with all the pluggins (I believe they're the 7704A >> >[...] > >>If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll put you in contact with him. >> > >If they were Tek 500 series 'scopes, this would be an interesting >offer, but having become spoiled by the excellent display, and very >sharp traces, over the past two decades, on the 500 series models, >unlike any other 'scopes, no other 'scopes will do. :-) > >Alas, biz 'droids always have to go introducing horrid new and >disimproved models when they're selling things that people like. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020929/a83bc2ab/attachment.html From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sun Sep 29 18:56:30 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: RSX-11 Kermit Transfers References: <000e01c26272$6bb40970$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <3D979342.A99D5F52@Vishay.com> After some interesting remarks about transferring binary files, VMS, BACKUP, and some nifty utilities, back to the original question. The correct mode to transfer RSX task files is either BINARY or FIXED. According to my copy of the PDP-11 Kermit User Guide, Version 3.58 (Sept. 1987), SET FILE TYPE BINARY is equivalent to SET FILE TYPE FIXED. After transmitting SOME.TSK file, you need to make the file contiguous again on the target system: PIP /CO/NV=SOME.TSK will do the trick. Andreas Christopher McNabb schrieb: > > Which kermit mode should be used when transfering files to an RSX-11 system > using kermit, ASCII or BINARY? I realize this is normally based on the type > of the file, but when I xfer task files using BINARY I get this silly "not a > valid task" message when I try to install or run the file. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Sep 29 20:50:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Eulogy for Bob Wallace by Dan Gillmor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Dan Gillmor wrote of Bob Wallace in his September 28 column in the San > Jose Mercury: > Bob Wallace, personal-computer software pioneer, philanthropist and > activist, died last week in San Rafael. He had a too-short life, but > accomplished more than most. > > Wallace was 53 when he died, apparently of natural causes, according to > the Marin County coroner's preliminary report. Later adjusted to pneoumonia. When he was about 16, he had a collapsed lung. I wonder if there is a connection? > He was one of the first Microsoft employees, Ninth employee, but first to leave with stock. > but left in the early 1980s to start his own company, > Quicksoft, which sold a popular word processor, PC-Write. He wrote PC-Write before he started his company. One of his earlier name choices before Quicksoft, was "Cimarron Software". Later, he told me that he had found that he could not do both running the company AND program. He tried hiring programmers; when that didn't work out, he sold the company and worked as a programmer for his new owner. > He may be best known for his early contributions to the genre of software > that became called "shareware"-- a marketing method in which people would He was the one who came up with that name. An earlier variant was "commission shareware" > buy diskettes with free-to-try software on them, or download it, and then > let them buy it if they liked it. He had qualms about the commercial > software industry, and once told the New York Times, "My philosophy is > that I want to make a living, not a killing." > > Wallace worked, in college and afterward, with some of the industry's > leading lights. He joined Microsoft in 1978. But he was always enthusiastic about helping anybody and everybody. He introduced me to computers in the mid 1960s. The first time that I ever saw any kind of PORTABLE computing was a Silent 700 that he had brought home one weekend about 1970. Until then, every terminal that I had used was immovable. > Wallace's interests ranged beyond the computing world. He was also known > among drug-policy reformers, and funded medical and social research about > psychedelic drugs. By the time of his death, he had sold off his software company, and had moved to Sebastapol to run a book company dealing with psychedleics. > Wallace had many admirers, including his former employers at Microsoft > and technology luminaries in Silicon Valley. "I remeber Bob as a gentle > soul who was soft-spoken, but creative, persistent and meticulous in his > programming and thinking," Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen told the Times > this week. > > Rest in peace. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Sep 29 21:31:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon In-Reply-To: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> References: <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020929193346.4d372872@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bob, I'll take it off your hands for $100. That means you PAY ME to take it! :-) Joe At 07:08 PM 9/29/02 -0400, you wrote: >I've got a Tek 547, complete with scope cart and several plug-ins I'd be >willing to part with. > From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Sun Sep 29 21:39:00 2002 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon Message-ID: The 547 was not *that* bad... Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 5:34 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon > > > Bob, > > I'll take it off your hands for $100. That means you PAY > ME to take it! :-) > > Joe > > At 07:08 PM 9/29/02 -0400, you wrote: > >I've got a Tek 547, complete with scope cart and several > plug-ins I'd be > >willing to part with. > > > > > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020929/19efb922/attachment.html From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sun Sep 29 22:01:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020929193346.4d372872@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> At 07:33 PM 9/29/02, you wrote: >Bob, > I'll take it off your hands for $100. That means you PAY ME to take it! :-) > Joe >At 07:08 PM 9/29/02 -0400, you wrote: >>I've got a Tek 547, complete with scope cart and several plug-ins I'd be >>willing to part with. Hmmm... I had a 547 (I think that was the number). I *liked* it. Big. Heavy. Beautifully built. Silver solder, porcelain standoffs, gold-plated switches. Reliable. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Mon Sep 30 02:19:00 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon References: <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> Message-ID: <00ca01c26851$e1323980$0101a8c0@athlon> Bob I'd gladly give you the $100 for it/them but there's a big problem in the way--- it's called the Pacific!!! Some of these guys just don't appreciate good test gear.. Anyway I do have five other 500 series scopes-plus several plugins- but always did want a 547!!! Bugger! Cheers Dave Brown Christchurch New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:08 AM Subject: Re: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon > I've got a Tek 547, complete with scope cart and several plug-ins I'd be > willing to part with. > > R. D. Davis wrote: > > >Quothe Zane H. Healy, from writings of Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 10:36:27AM -0700: > > > >>Oscilliscopes available with all the pluggins (I believe they're the 7704A > >> > >[...] > > > >>If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll put you in contact with him. > >> > > > >If they were Tek 500 series 'scopes, this would be an interesting > >offer, but having become spoiled by the excellent display, and very > >sharp traces, over the past two decades, on the 500 series models, > >unlike any other 'scopes, no other 'scopes will do. :-) > > > >Alas, biz 'droids always have to go introducing horrid new and > >disimproved models when they're selling things that people like. > > > > From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Sep 30 07:39:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <3.0.6.16.20020929193346.4d372872@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020930083719.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> At 11:00 PM 9/29/02 -0400, you wrote: >Hmmm... I had a 547 (I think that was the number). I *liked* it. >Big. Heavy. Beautifully built. Silver solder, porcelain standoffs, >gold-plated switches. Reliable. >Carlos. I know, bad form (replying to my own msg)... but I remembered about this book that I have, "Typical Oscilloscope Circuitry", revised edition, 1964, Tektronix Inc. From the introduction: Manipulation of the front-panel controls of an oscilloscope can be learned by rote. To use the instrument to its fullest capabilities a knowledge of oscilloscope circuitry is essential. What a different point of view with respect to the customers! Back then, they would publish this beautifully edited [1] book, printed in high quality paper, hard bound, containing actual schematics, and telling you that you should learn about the insides of your instrument to make beter use of it. Now, you get just basic docs and the proverbial troubleshooting guide, the first entry being "problem: doesn't turn on, check: Is the power cord plugged in?" [1] for a technical book; about the only aspect that makes it clear that engineers published this book are the use of underlining for subsection titles and within the text for emphasis. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon Sep 30 07:43:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Seen this? Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146EAA@BUSH02> There's at least an Apple ][ in that lot. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2057798506&ssPageName=ADM E:B:SS:US:1 6 hours to go. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Sep 30 08:54:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3D985818.8030502@tiac.net> Yep, the 547 is the dual-timebase scope of the series. A very useful feature for debugging digital logic. Carlos Murillo wrote: >At 07:33 PM 9/29/02, you wrote: > >>Bob, >> I'll take it off your hands for $100. That means you PAY ME to take it! >> >:-) > >> Joe >>At 07:08 PM 9/29/02 -0400, you wrote: >> >>>I've got a Tek 547, complete with scope cart and several plug-ins I'd be >>>willing to part with. >>> > >Hmmm... I had a 547 (I think that was the number). I *liked* it. >Big. Heavy. Beautifully built. Silver solder, porcelain standoffs, >gold-plated switches. Reliable. > >Carlos. > > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020930/0def5ffd/attachment.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 30 09:30:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Seen this? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146EAA@BUSH02> Message-ID: <20020930143127.22475.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Davison, Lee" wrote: > > There's at least an Apple ][ in that lot. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2057798506&ssPageName=ADM > E:B:SS:US:1 > > 6 hours to go. That's about 2 hours up the road from me, but I didn't see anything in the pictures that would urge me to take the entire lot. I like Apples. I have plenty. What I'm really looking for is a second 32K BASIC 2.0 PET. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Sep 30 11:54:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first Message-ID: Yes, a great way to remove any socketed chips that are stuck (or soldered-in ones for that matter!) -----Original Message----- From: Bob Shannon [mailto:bshannon@tiac.net] Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 9:50 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Altair-what do I do first Using a crowbar is an excellent suggestion really, if your super-concerned about rare chips, From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Sep 30 12:40:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> <3D985818.8030502@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3D988D0C.4030906@tiac.net> I've just found something rather rare, and I'm willing to part with it, so... For Sale or Trade (Not listed on eBay!): An RCA CDP 1801 CPU board, New Old Stock, with matching edge-card connector. The PCB artwork is labled "RCA GPA 3903822/02 PCA 47-5", and "3901822". This is a 4.25 inch by 2.75 inch (including fingers) blue-colored PCB with a 40-pin CDP1801UD data path chip and its associated 28-pin SSTC TA6890W control store ROM, along with some passive support components. The IC's are in white ceramic with gold covers. Even the Beckman 22K resistor DIP is in a white ceramic package. PCB traces are tinned over a blue substrate, with a 44-pin gold edge finger connector. The mating connector is a Sullins ETM22DSEH in a matching blue color, for some reason (because is looks really cool?). This two-chip CPU is a very early example of the RCA COSMAC CPU design built prior to the much more common CDP1802 single-chip processor. Dates codes are 7539 for the data path, and 7525 for the SSTC chip. Condition is absolutely mint, NOS-condition, but untested. No documentation, but I ~MAY~ be able to find something on this board, just don't count on it. I'll also include a pair of vintage HP hexidecimal displays exactly like those used on the original ELF project, to make this combo the starting point for a really special ELF project. (Some ceramic 1852's may also be available) From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Sep 30 12:49:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> <3D985818.8030502@tiac.net> <3D988D0C.4030906@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3D988F6F.5070301@tiac.net> Ok, so replaying to my own email is bed form and all, but a chip collector has a 1801 chipset for sale, and is claiming its the old set for sale anywhere. He's asking $1,500. I, on the other hand, will claim to be sane. Bob Shannon wrote: > I've just found something rather rare, and I'm willing to part with > it, so... > > For Sale or Trade (Not listed on eBay!): > > An RCA CDP 1801 CPU board, New Old Stock, with matching edge-card > connector. The PCB artwork is labled "RCA GPA 3903822/02 PCA 47-5", > and "3901822". > > This is a 4.25 inch by 2.75 inch (including fingers) blue-colored PCB > with a 40-pin CDP1801UD data path chip and its > associated 28-pin SSTC TA6890W control store ROM, along with some > passive support components. The IC's are > in white ceramic with gold covers. Even the Beckman 22K resistor DIP > is in a white ceramic package. PCB traces are tinned over a blue > substrate, with a 44-pin gold edge finger connector. > > The mating connector is a Sullins ETM22DSEH in a matching blue color, > for some reason (because is looks really cool?). > > This two-chip CPU is a very early example of the RCA COSMAC CPU design > built prior to the much more common CDP1802 single-chip processor. > Dates codes are 7539 for the data path, and 7525 for the SSTC chip. > Condition is absolutely mint, NOS-condition, but untested. No > documentation, but I ~MAY~ be able to find something on this board, > just don't count on it. > > I'll also include a pair of vintage HP hexidecimal displays exactly > like those used on the original ELF project, to make this combo the > starting point for a really special ELF project. > > (Some ceramic 1852's may also be available) > > > > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Sep 30 13:16:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> <3D985818.8030502@tiac.net> <3D988D0C.4030906@tiac.net> Message-ID: <001701c268ad$840a65a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Bob Shannon wrote: > I've just found something rather rare, and I'm willing to part with > it, so... [snip] Three questions: A) Has it gone yet? B) How much will it cost to ship this thing to the UK? C) How much do you want for it? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Sep 30 13:28:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> <3D985818.8030502@tiac.net> <3D988D0C.4030906@tiac.net> <001701c268ad$840a65a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3D98985C.1010402@tiac.net> Answers... A. Not yet, it was only posted minutes ago! B. Shipping to the UK would not be much, we are only talking about a small PCB, so the weight and size are very small. C. Make me an offer. Clearly one chip collector places a very high dollar value on the 'only' 1801 chip set he's aware of. This is the full 1801 CPU board, so its more 'practical' in my eyes, for someone who would acutally use the board and build a 1801-based ELF-like thing. So I don't have a preset dollar value in mind at all, and am willing to accept trades, etc. But some day, I'd love to look at some web page, and see a pretty blue 1801 CPU board built into a working machine, rather than have it sitting unused in some collection. I think its rare-enough that my first concern is that it should go to a 'good home' rather than what I get for it. This is why I posted the offer to the mailing list rather than eBay. Philip Pemberton wrote: >Bob Shannon wrote: > >>I've just found something rather rare, and I'm willing to part with >>it, so... >> >[snip] >Three questions: >A) Has it gone yet? >B) How much will it cost to ship this thing to the UK? >C) How much do you want for it? > >Later. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020930/b126faf4/attachment.html From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Sep 30 14:50:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... In-Reply-To: <3D988D0C.4030906@tiac.net> References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> <3D985818.8030502@tiac.net> <3D988D0C.4030906@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3675.4.20.168.228.1033415499.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > An RCA CDP 1801 CPU board, [...] > This is a 4.25 inch by 2.75 inch (including fingers) blue-colored PCB > with a 40-pin CDP1801UD data path chip and its > associated 28-pin SSTC TA6890W control store ROM, along with some > passive support components. Quite a find! According to documentation I've seen, the original chip set was the TA6889 and TA6890. The later ones are CDP1801R and CDP1801U. I'm not sure whether there were actual differences in the chips, or whether they just changed the part numbers. I've only seen a reference to one other RCA chip with a TAxxxx part number, and it was a CMOS RAM. I suspect that the "TA" prefix may have been used for preproduction (non-qualified) parts, similar to the Motorola "XC" prefix. The TA68xx/CDP1801 supports only a subset of the instructions of the 1802. The instructions that were added on the 1802 were quite commonly used, so don't count on it running 1802 software. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Sep 30 15:01:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Eulogy for Bob Wallace by Dan Gillmor In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 29 Sep 2002 18:50:57 PDT." Message-ID: <200209300821.JAA28110@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" said: [re Bob Wallace] > > He wrote PC-Write before he started his company. One of his earlier name > choices before Quicksoft, was "Cimarron Software". Later, he told me that > he had found that he could not do both running the company AND > program. He tried hiring programmers; when that didn't work out, he sold > the company and worked as a programmer for his new owner. I used PC-Write for many years, and I still have my certificate granting ne the right to use it in perpetuity. I correspnded with Quicksoft on a couple of occasions, I can't remember if it was Bob who replied, but what I do remember was that they added a feature to PC-Write that I requested - the first time a software comapny actually listened to me! A pleasure to do business with. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 30 15:46:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020930083719.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> <3.0.6.16.20020929193346.4d372872@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020930164413.46d73914@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I remember those books, Tektronix published quite a few different ones about oscilloscopes and taking measurements. I had a dozen or so of them when I was younger. They were great reading and very educational. I highly recommend them to anyone interested in using oscilloscopes or learning more about how they work. Joe At 08:37 AM 9/30/02 -0400, you wrote: > >I know, bad form (replying to my own msg)... but I remembered >about this book that I have, "Typical Oscilloscope Circuitry", >revised edition, 1964, Tektronix Inc. From the introduction: > > Manipulation of the front-panel controls of an oscilloscope can be > learned by rote. To use the instrument to its fullest capabilities > a knowledge of oscilloscope circuitry is essential. > >What a different point of view with respect to the customers! >Back then, they would publish this beautifully edited [1] book, >printed in high quality paper, hard bound, containing actual >schematics, and telling you that you should learn about the >insides of your instrument to make beter use of it. Now, >you get just basic docs and the proverbial troubleshooting >guide, the first entry being "problem: doesn't turn on, >check: Is the power cord plugged in?" > >[1] for a technical book; about the only aspect that makes it clear >that engineers published this book are the use of underlining for >subsection titles and within the text for emphasis. > >Carlos. > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Sep 30 16:27:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Anybody want a TI Linear and Interface Circuits Data Book? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020930173150.5697035a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> First Edition, 1973, semi hard cover. Original owner's name on the outside top of the pages, slight crease in front cover. Paper sticker on front cover. Otherwise in VG conditon. I have two of them and don't need them both. Your's for the price of shipping. Joe From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Sep 30 16:43:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Free 8" floppy drives, near Washington DC Message-ID: <200209302144.OAA14278@clulw009.amd.com> >From: classiccmp@trailing-edge.com > >Same conditions as the DEC stuff: You pick up only. > >A bunch of Shugart 8" floppy drives, electrically identical to SA801's >but the aluminum castings are slightly wider than a real SA801. (Maybe >these are SA901's? I don't know.) > >E-mail me at "shoppa@trailing-edge.com" if interested. > >Tim. > Hi I think that all of the 900 series used 44 pin edge connectors instead of 50 pin. At least the SA925 uses the 44 pin connector. I have at least one of the larger SA800's and it just has a different dash number as I recall ( I used its control board and spindle shaft on another drive that fit the box I had ). Dwight From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Sep 30 19:27:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: PDP-11/93 Schematics Message-ID: <3D98EC29.C95427D7@compsys.to> A friend of mine has an 11/93 that hangs about every third time the power is cycled. Can anyone help with a set of schematics? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From archer at topnow.com Mon Sep 30 20:51:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> <3D985818.8030502@tiac.net> <3D988D0C.4030906@tiac.net> <3675.4.20.168.228.1033415499.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D98FFCC.809EDE1B@topnow.com> Eric Smith wrote: > > > An RCA CDP 1801 CPU board, > [...] > > This is a 4.25 inch by 2.75 inch (including fingers) blue-colored PCB > > with a 40-pin CDP1801UD data path chip and its > > associated 28-pin SSTC TA6890W control store ROM, along with some > > passive support components. > > Quite a find! I'll say. And a bit of 1802 trivia: The 1802 was used in quite a number of Amateur radio ("ham") satellites. It was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros from what I remember reading, due in large part to its CMOS construction. I guess those days there were a few PMOS CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs (Z80, 6502, 9900JL), and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was 1802 or bust. :) I don't recall hearing about commercial and military satellites, but I'm guessing they also used this chip extensively for a time. I suppose if e-bay prices go high enough for the chips, you can always launch a mission to recover one of those sats for the chip salvage. ;) An observation about the 1802. Most micros' instruction sets I remember from those days tended to be either simple and likeable for their elegant minimalism (6502, 6800), or were complex and irregular, but likeable because of really neat and powerful instructions (Z80 w/CPIR, LDDR, XTHL etc.), or interesting for just being plain weird (9900). I remember pegging every micro of the day into one of those camps (simple, complex, weird) except one: 1802. The 1802 is the only one that seemed to me to be elegant, simple, and clean and yet so weird that it must have been the product of a completely alien intelligence. Perhaps one that GLOs in the dark... No doubt at any rate the 1802 was interesting and unique. It's great that folks on the list care more about seeing this rare gear see use than fall into disuse as part of a "collection". > > According to documentation I've seen, the original chip set was the TA6889 > and TA6890. The later ones are CDP1801R and CDP1801U. I'm not sure whether > there were actual differences in the chips, or whether they just changed the > part numbers. > > I've only seen a reference to one other RCA chip with a TAxxxx part number, > and it was a CMOS RAM. I suspect that the "TA" prefix may have been used > for preproduction (non-qualified) parts, similar to the Motorola "XC" > prefix. > > The TA68xx/CDP1801 supports only a subset of the instructions of the 1802. > The instructions that were added on the 1802 were quite commonly used, > so don't count on it running 1802 software. that BLO's. ;) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Sep 30 21:11:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> <3D985818.8030502@tiac.net> <3D988D0C.4030906@tiac.net> <3675.4.20.168.228.1033415499.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3D98FFCC.809EDE1B@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3D99044F.2090907@jetnet.ab.ca> Ross Archer wrote: > The 1802 was used in quite a number of Amateur radio ("ham") > satellites. > It was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros from > what I remember > reading, due in large part to its CMOS construction. I > guess those days > there were a few PMOS CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs > (Z80, 6502, > 9900JL), and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was > 1802 or bust. :) The other CMOS chip at the time was the PDP-8 on a chip. The 1802 was I think was a special CMOS version that was latch up and rad-hardened. Several CPU's are rad-hard but the 1802 was the first cheap one. From jim at jkearney.com Mon Sep 30 21:35:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> <3D985818.8030502@tiac.net> <3D988D0C.4030906@tiac.net> <3675.4.20.168.228.1033415499.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3D98FFCC.809EDE1B@topnow.com> <3D99044F.2090907@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <015a01c268f3$5439c910$1301090a@jkearney.com> >From: "Ben Franchuk" > Ross Archer wrote: > > > The 1802 was used in quite a number of Amateur radio ("ham") > > satellites. > > It was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros from > > what I remember > > reading, due in large part to its CMOS construction. I > > guess those days > > there were a few PMOS CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs > > (Z80, 6502, > > 9900JL), and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was > > 1802 or bust. :) > The other CMOS chip at the time was the PDP-8 on a chip. > The 1802 was I think was a special CMOS version that was > latch up and rad-hardened. Several CPU's are rad-hard but > the 1802 was the first cheap one. It goes beyond that... there is a Silicon-On-Saphire version which is considerably more rad-hard than a pure silicon process. In fact even more recent space probes like Galileo (launched 1989) used 1802s. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Sep 30 22:09:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> <3D985818.8030502@tiac.net> <3D988D0C.4030906@tiac.net> <3675.4.20.168.228.1033415499.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3D98FFCC.809EDE1B@topnow.com> <3D99044F.2090907@jetnet.ab.ca> <015a01c268f3$5439c910$1301090a@jkearney.com> Message-ID: <001901c268f8$1007a5f0$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kearney" > > It goes beyond that... there is a Silicon-On-Saphire version which is > considerably more rad-hard than a pure silicon process. In fact even more > recent space probes like Galileo (launched 1989) used 1802s. > According to http://www.amsat.org/amsat/sats/phase3d/ihu.html , AO-40 (which was launched on Nov 16th, 2000) uses an 1802 as its internal housekeeping unit. Here is a brief quote from the page: "The P3D IHU is based on a Sandia-processed (rad hard) CDP1802 COSMAC processor and standard 4000-series CMOS logic operating at a nominal power supply of 10-volts. The memory array is based on donated GEC Plessey MA9287 rad-hard CMOS static RAMs, giving a total memory size of 64k bytes. " From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Sep 30 22:27:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... In-Reply-To: <3D99044F.2090907@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Using www.cosmacelf.com, there are dozens of sites devoted to the 1802. There are emulators for Windows, Palms, and probably *nix. In fact, just the other night I converted Frankasm to run under Linux (didn't take much, but I also went through the 1802 and base code, making prototypes modernized, and basically getting it to compiled with -W -Wall GCC flags). Misc items: The rad-hard version of the 1802 was saphirre on silicon, from what I've been told. You can pick up the RCA Studio II on eBay pretty cheap. These are 1802 based. There is the Netronics Elf, Quest Super Elf, and the RCA SA711 (I own 1 each of the latter, plus a couple of RCA Stdio II's). One day I stumbled across about 110 pieces of CDP1802ACEs in Austin Electronics. This got me on the 1802 kick, something I had always wanted to play with, but never got around to. It's a neat instruction set. Not perfect, but powerful. Lends itself to Forth quite well, and I imagine that a port of GCC to it wouldn't be outrageous (not compared to braindead architectures like the PIC, at any rate). Lots of nifty support chips. CDP1823 256x8 RAMS, CDP1861 video, there are port expanders, larger RAMs, ROMs, the CDP1854 serial chip (found 9 boards on eBay, payed my board builder a couple bucks to desolder them all), some other stuff. Expect to pay dearly for databooks. I won't mentioned what I've spent lately, especially if Joe Rigdon won't (grin). --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ben Franchuk Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 22:11 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Attention 1802 fans... Ross Archer wrote: > The 1802 was used in quite a number of Amateur radio ("ham") > satellites. > It was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros from > what I remember > reading, due in large part to its CMOS construction. I > guess those days > there were a few PMOS CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs > (Z80, 6502, > 9900JL), and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was > 1802 or bust. :) The other CMOS chip at the time was the PDP-8 on a chip. The 1802 was I think was a special CMOS version that was latch up and rad-hardened. Several CPU's are rad-hard but the 1802 was the first cheap one. From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Sep 30 23:19:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20021001044051.GB36792@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Carlos Murillo, from writings of Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 11:00:02PM -0400: > Hmmm... I had a 547 (I think that was the number). I *liked* it. > Big. Heavy. Beautifully built. Silver solder, porcelain standoffs, > gold-plated switches. Reliable. Yes, they're true works of art, and the preservation of them will hopefully, one day, convince engineers to go back to designing useful equipment that's pleasant to use, user-repairable, well documented and lasts for many decades if properly maintained. Alas, most engineers these days are less interested in engineering than they are in being good little corporate 'droids who design poorly designed rubbish to make their company's management 'droids happy and appease other cow-orkers who do the same. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.