From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Oct 1 00:27:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:38 2005 Subject: 11/44 rescue complete Message-ID: A rescue not without it's glitches and travails - from the fact that it took somewhere plus-or-minus a year to get the equipment released from the Large Company where it had been mothballed - only the dedication of it's former sysop kept it from the Dumpster of Death, to several hurdles that had to be danced around in actually effecting rescue process. Thanks to Sellam for orginally brining it to my attention. Thanks to Marvin who, on very short notice, drove over 400 miles round trip to pick up the System, and whose van subsequently broke down and required towing to a service center, with the computers and software and manuals still loaded. Thanks also to two non-listmembers who went out of thier way to help us - one of whom worked for the aforementioned service center, where the Poor Van got locked inside for the evening, even though Marv requested that it be left out so we could transload it... I now have 2 11/44s set up as mirrored systems - if one failed the other could be switched over 'easily' - 2 SCSI HDs of unknown capacity (they're full-height and look like Seagates from the front - 1 RL02 - and an 11/23 used as a serial line concentrator. The system runs RSX-11M. A Blue Wall came with it, and about 20 diskpacks. Perhaps this coming weekend I will find the time to power it up and see how it's journey of years of storage and a thousand miles in vans and pickup trucks has treated it. Here's hoping it's still Happy!! Cheers and thanks to all who helped! John From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Oct 1 01:28:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: 11/44 rescue complete In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >used as a serial line concentrator. The system runs RSX-11M. A Blue Wall >came with it, and about 20 diskpacks. Out of curiousity just how old does RSX-11M have to be in order for it to have Blue Binders for the Doc's? I know RT-11 V3 rates Blue Binders, yet V4 and V5 are Orange, as is V4.2 of RSX-11M. In other words, just what version did you get? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From elmo at mminternet.com Tue Oct 1 01:37:01 2002 From: elmo at mminternet.com (Eliot Moore) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: Free in LA: TK50's - DEC Manuals - Commodore Pet - Dell P120 - Jaz Drives Message-ID: <3D96B9A3.9030303@mminternet.com> Help me with my pre-spring cleaning: I have several DEC Basic+2 manuals available in the small grey binders. About 20 TK50's - mostly VMS 4.0 - 5.0 distributions and updates, plus a couple LICENSE PAKs and a 3780 BSC emulator. A Commodore Pet 8032. A Dell Pentium 120 System (Chassis/CPU/Floppy, small HD, no memory - works.) A large assortment of wall warts, mostly 9 VDC. Several Multitech modem power supplies. Two Okidata low-profile laser printers - one 600, one 300 dpi, with toners and trays. (Recent feeding issues) A pair of 1 G SCSI Jaz drives. Miscellaneous ISA / PCI cards - video, network, sound. Promise ISA EIDE controller with BIOS. All yours for free. Pickup in Santa Monica. I have also a PDP-11/23 available for trade. Regards, Eliot From dogbert at mindless.com Tue Oct 1 01:37:10 2002 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: Hard year References: <00b101c267cc$e68d3b80$d2775243@n4fs> Message-ID: <3D97420C.1040002@mindless.com> Mike Feher wrote: >Sellam - > >I agree, completely. I also voted for Perot. But, between Clinton and Bush, >at least to me, there is a world of difference. > You're right. Never since Grant's administration has there been such rampant corruption, creepy secrecy, and disregard for the common interest as we've seen since Shrub/Ashcroft/Cheney took office. At least two of them are proven liars and crooks, and the remaining one is a religious freak. Improvement indeed. Give me almost any president in the last 100 years and it would be better than the dishonerable liar polluting the office for his oil and defense buddies. Corrupt to the core, even worse than Clinton's worst. That's a fact, and it's coming to light very slowly, but it IS coming to light. --- Ross > I still cannot believe that >the majority of the American people voted for Clinton, for two terms. I am >not claiming that Bush is perfect, but, he is a heck of a lot better in >every respect than Clinton, from what I can see, from an engineer's >perspective. As someone else pointed out previously, the people that can >really do a decent job at being president, unfortunately will not run, or do >not have the finances to even get it started if they were to. So, our >choices are limited. But, at least, we do have choices. Fortunately in this >country, I believe we have the momentum, and the will of the American >people, to make things continue, properly, during any administration. >Fluctuations in economy and world opinion will continue regardless. I am a >consultant, for the military, and as of the new fiscal year I do not have a >job. I do not blame any one for that. I will make something work out, as I >have enough confidence in myself and my abilities even at 57. Regards - Mike > > > >Mike B. Feher, N4FS >89 Arnold Blvd. >Howell NJ, 07731 >(732) 901-9193 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sellam Ismail" >To: >Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 10:34 AM >Subject: Re: Hard year > > > > >>On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: >> >> >> >>>Guys, I lived under communism. I am very happy here. You are all welcome >>> >>> >to > > >>>move. Regards - Mike >>> >>> >>Mike, I understand your sentiment, but there is no excuse for what we have >>for a political system currently, and who we have in office. >> >>Just because other systems were much worse than ours does not mean that we >>should not seek to make ours more honorable. >> >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >> >> >Festival > > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >---- > > >>International Man of Intrigue and Danger >> >> >http://www.vintage.org > > >> * Old computing resources for business and academia at >> >> >www.VintageTech.com * > > >> >> > > > > From dogbert at mindless.com Tue Oct 1 01:37:22 2002 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first References: <3.0.6.16.20020929081532.4fcf959e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3D971938.6060608@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3D97534F.60809@mindless.com> Bob Shannon wrote: > Thanks for catching my typo Joe. The MTBF (mean time between > failures) is greatly REDUCED by unsoldering chips, often very > dramatically so. Hmm, I never even thought of this one before. Yet another general argument for sockets. :) I would think if you had an adjustable DC supply, you could gradually ramp up the voltage on the unregulated input and watch the output with a voltmeter. If it ever got to 5.25 volts, you'd not want to ramp any higher and replace the regulator. That wouldn't help with re-forming caps though. Maybe you'd start at the output of the regulator and work up from a very low voltage? Or would undervoltage hurt some components due to a mysterious process I'm not aware of? -- Ross > > > Ever notice the soldering specifications for TTL devices, like 300 > degrees C for not more than 10 seconds? This limitation is given for > the parts to meet their rated MTBF, not because 300 degrees C for 11 > seconds will destroy the parts right away. > > Resolder the parts, and you may be throwing away well over half their > service life. Clearly not a professional way to restore a machine. > For some repairs, we have no other option, but melting solder is a > last resort. > > > Joe wrote: > >> At 10:38 PM 9/28/02 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >>> If you think this does the least dammage, your grossly in error. As >>> a test engineer, I can direct you to any number >>> of volumes that will show you the dramatic increase in MTBF >>> >> >> I think you mean dramatic DECREASE in MTBF. But I doubt many >> people on this list even truely understand what MTBF is. I worked in >> reliablility, logisitics and maintainablity so I'm prpobably one of >> the few that would catch this. >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> >> >> for >> >>> resoldered parts. This is known, for-sure dammage, not some risk of >>> dammage from a theoretical regulator failure. >>> >>> Care to defend this position? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > From vcf at siconic.com Tue Oct 1 01:37:29 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: Eulogy for Bob Wallace by Dan Gillmor Message-ID: Dan Gillmor wrote of Bob Wallace in his September 28 column in the San Jose Mercury: Bob Wallace, personal-computer software pioneer, philanthropist and activist, died last week in San Rafael. He had a too-short life, but accomplished more than most. Wallace was 53 when he died, apparently of natural causes, according to the Marin County coroner's preliminary report. He was one of the first Microsoft employees, but left in the early 1980s to start his own company, Quicksoft, which sold a popular word processor, PC-Write. He may be best known for his early contributions to the genre of software that became called "shareware"-- a marketing method in which people would buy diskettes with free-to-try software on them, or download it, and then let them buy it if they liked it. He had qualms about the commercial software industry, and once told the New York Times, "My philosophy is that I want to make a living, not a killing." Wallace worked, in college and afterward, with some of the industry's leading lights. He joined Microsoft in 1978. Wallace's interests ranged beyond the computing world. He was also known among drug-policy reformers, and funded medical and social research about psychedelic drugs. Wallace had many admirers, including his former employers at Microsoft and technology luminaries in Silicon Valley. "I remeber Bob as a gentle soul who was soft-spoken, but creative, persistent and meticulous in his programming and thinking," Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen told the Times this week. Rest in peace. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From robert_little_2000 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 1 01:37:36 2002 From: robert_little_2000 at yahoo.com (Robert Little) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: IBM PC 5150 and 720KB Floppy Drive In-Reply-To: <20020927205909.56506.29018.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20020930124337.59664.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com> Got a question... I have just received an original IBM PC; actually, 2 of them (one had to be parted out). I still haven't checked the BIOS date, but the machine does have an origianl Intel 8088 and the power supply appears to be the original design. Here is the crux of the problem... I want to refit the machine with a 720 KB 3 1/2" drive. This was a fairly easy mod that we used to perform on XT's, but it seems to have problems finding the drive. Anybody out there have any experience with this? Robert __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 1 01:59:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: IBM PC 5150 and 720KB Floppy Drive In-Reply-To: <20020930124337.59664.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020927205909.56506.29018.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20020930124337.59664.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42726.64.169.63.74.1033455610.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I have just received an original IBM PC; actually, 2 [...] > I want to refit the machine with a 720 KB 3 1/2" > drive. Ugh! Am I the only one that finds this idea completely repugnant? The whole point of having an original 5150 is that it is *original*. If you want a PC with a 3.5" drive, you can find those *anywhere*. From jd at sourcecode.co.za Tue Oct 1 05:29:01 2002 From: jd at sourcecode.co.za (JD Gouws) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: new list member.. Message-ID: <8D3112E09D20A14CBDE1502C2EF752900A1662@scpdc.sourcecode.co.za> Hi Everyone I am new to this mailing list & thought a quick few lines as introductory would be ok. I'm a 23yo South African male Systems Developer (Read: microsoft monkey). Recently I acquired a lot of old computer systems and since then I have been collecting everything I can find that pre dates the general PC era. I will post a URL with a complete listing of all my current goods but here's a few I thought i'd mention seeing as there is very little about these on the internet: Intel Prompt 80, MDS-800 & ICE. I also have various atari/commodore/hp/epson/sharp/ncr computers & handhelds. As far as i know i have one of the only few surviving Multitech Microproffessor II (MPR II) machines which is a slightly modified clone of the original apple 2 & apparently the first apple clone to be shipped out of taiwan. Back to the intel stuff, who can help me learn to use the MDS & Prompt 80 machines? Programming on a IC level has always been something I've been wanting to get into but alas no newbie resources are readily availible.. is the Prompt 80 ok for this purpose? reg jD From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 1 07:42:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first In-Reply-To: <3D97534F.60809@mindless.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020929081532.4fcf959e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3D971938.6060608@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021001084506.0ebf49de@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:23 PM 9/29/02 -0700, you wrote: >Bob Shannon wrote: > >> Thanks for catching my typo Joe. The MTBF (mean time between >> failures) is greatly REDUCED by unsoldering chips, often very >> dramatically so. > > >Hmm, I never even thought of this one before. >Yet another general argument for sockets. :) Yes and no. I used to be all in favor of sockets but what I've found over the years is that sockets generally cause more problems than they fix. Yes they make repairs easier but electrolysis bewteen the IC leads and the sockets cause problems in time, even to the point to where the leads will corrode completely through and fall off or break when you try to remove them. In addition, ICs tend to creep out of the sockets and have to be periodicly reseated. Using GOOD quality sockets (gold pins) and ICs (mil-spec parts) minimizes problems but are EXPENSIVE (unless you're a good scounger like me and can get them free :-). My personal opinion is to do like most of the good manuafacturers have done and to install SSI ICs directly on the board and install EPROMs, CPUs and specailized parts in sockets. That seems to a good compromise between cost, repairablility and reliability. > >I would think if you had an adjustable DC supply, >you could gradually ramp up the voltage on the unregulated >input and watch the output with a voltmeter. If it ever got >to 5.25 volts, you'd not want to ramp any higher and replace >the regulator. > Of course you can. All the arguments about removing ICs to check the regulators is rediculous! Who in their right mind would remove 50 to 100 ICs to test one part with only three leads! If they're THAT worried about worried about the regulators it would be MUCH easier to remove it and test it by itself instead of removing all those ICs! >That wouldn't help with re-forming caps though. Actually it would. You're just powering the circuit from a variable DC supply instead of a variable AC supply and you're bypassing the transformer and retifiers. Maybe >you'd start at the output of the regulator and work up from >a very low voltage? Assuming that the circuits are designed to operate off of 5 VDC, you should be able to safely start at that voltage or maybe slightly less and then increase the voltage to the rated voltage (8 volts or so for S-100 type cards) while monitoring the output. (In fact, you can take the voltage all the way to the input limit of the regulator as long as the regulator can dissapate the heat generated.) If you want to reform caps at the same time then start lower, say 1 VDC. Another advantage of using a bench type power supply is that you can set a current limit in case a cap or anything on the board is shorted and the chances of doing any damage are greatly minimized. The current limit setting is sort of a SWAG. On a fully populated board I'd probably start at 1/2 of the rated current of the regulator and probably have to raise the setting to get it to operate. On a board that's not fully populated I'd reduce the current in proportion to the percentage of ICs that are installed on the card. I generally keep notes on how much current various devices draw, If you ever have to test a similar device those notes give a good starting point. I use bench power supplies like this ALL the type, IMO they should be a repairman's second investment after a good meter, even before buying an O'scope. Or would undervoltage hurt some >components due to a mysterious process I'm not aware of? It's POSSIBLE that some IC or circuit might latch up and cause a problem but I'd say the chances of that happening is between slim and none on a TTL circuit. I have seen that kind of thing happen on CMOS devices such as HP calculators but even there it doesn't do any damage, it just causes the device to lock up. Bear in mind that at this point we don't care if the circuit is operating, only that there aren't any shorts or things of that type. Joe > >-- Ross > > >> >> >> Ever notice the soldering specifications for TTL devices, like 300 >> degrees C for not more than 10 seconds? This limitation is given for >> the parts to meet their rated MTBF, not because 300 degrees C for 11 >> seconds will destroy the parts right away. >> >> Resolder the parts, and you may be throwing away well over half their >> service life. Clearly not a professional way to restore a machine. >> For some repairs, we have no other option, but melting solder is a >> last resort. >> >> >> Joe wrote: >> >>> At 10:38 PM 9/28/02 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>> >>>> If you think this does the least dammage, your grossly in error. As >>>> a test engineer, I can direct you to any number >>>> of volumes that will show you the dramatic increase in MTBF >>>> >>> >>> I think you mean dramatic DECREASE in MTBF. But I doubt many >>> people on this list even truely understand what MTBF is. I worked in >>> reliablility, logisitics and maintainablity so I'm prpobably one of >>> the few that would catch this. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> for >>> >>>> resoldered parts. This is known, for-sure dammage, not some risk of >>>> dammage from a theoretical regulator failure. >>>> >>>> Care to defend this position? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > From voyager at hol.gr Tue Oct 1 07:51:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: IBM PC 5150 and 720KB Floppy Drive References: <20020930124337.59664.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <011101c26948$c72be660$0100a8c0@voyager3> use a power cable splitter to get the proper power plug, then a flat cable, with IDC connector instead the edge connector. I believe you could use a 3.5'' 1.44 drive right away (I did with a very very very old PC compatible). I think it should be better to have the 3.5'' as a second device. > I have just received an original IBM PC; actually, 2 > of them (one had to be parted out). I still haven't > checked the BIOS date, but the machine does have an > origianl Intel 8088 and the power supply appears to be > the original design. Here is the crux of the > problem... > > I want to refit the machine with a 720 KB 3 1/2" > drive. This was a fairly easy mod that we used to > perform on XT's, but it seems to have problems finding > the drive. Anybody out there have any experience with > this? > > Robert > > From voyager at hol.gr Tue Oct 1 07:56:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: IBM PC 5150 and 720KB Floppy Drive References: <20020927205909.56506.29018.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20020930124337.59664.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com> <42726.64.169.63.74.1033455610.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <011901c26949$13495fa0$0100a8c0@voyager3> Don't be such a racist :-) You cannot always have software on 5.25 drives, or 5.25 drives on your ATX box. Is it so bad to be able to use a 3.5'' floppy on an old system? it's not necessary a sacrilege to use an old system, otherwise useless (without any software) > Ugh! Am I the only one that finds this idea completely > repugnant? > > The whole point of having an original 5150 is that it is > *original*. If you want a PC with a 3.5" drive, you > can find those *anywhere*. > > > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Oct 1 08:53:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: 11/44 rescue complete References: Message-ID: <3D99A90E.EC60DB7E@compsys.to> >"Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >used as a serial line concentrator. The system runs RSX-11M. A Blue Wall > >came with it, and about 20 diskpacks. > Out of curiousity just how old does RSX-11M have to be in order for it to > have Blue Binders for the Doc's? I know RT-11 V3 rates Blue Binders, yet > V4 and V5 are Orange, as is V4.2 of RSX-11M. In other words, just what > version did you get? Jerome Fine replies: Just a quick note of correction. As of V5.07, RT-11 DOCs were switched to GREY Binders. If I remember correctly, they were still ORANGE for V5.06, but that is not certain. But for sure, they were still orange for V5.04G and almost certainly still orange for V5.05 of RT-11. NOTE: V5.06 DOCs of RT-11 and V5.07 DOCs of RT-11 are identical EXCEPT for the release notes in V5.07 which are about an inch thick. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Oct 1 09:05:01 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: IBM PC 5150 and 720KB Floppy Drive Message-ID: <27.2e307915.2acb05b8@aol.com> In a message dated 10/1/2002 8:55:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, voyager@hol.gr writes: << > I have just received an original IBM PC; actually, 2 > of them (one had to be parted out). I still haven't > checked the BIOS date, but the machine does have an > origianl Intel 8088 and the power supply appears to be > the original design. Here is the crux of the > problem... > > I want to refit the machine with a 720 KB 3 1/2" > drive. This was a fairly easy mod that we used to > perform on XT's, but it seems to have problems finding > the drive. Anybody out there have any experience with > this? > > Robert >> Install the drive and start using it. Might need a cable adaptor depending on how old the 3.5 drive is. With a modern version of DOS, it will either work outright or you might need a DRIVEPARM statement to let DOS know it's a 720k. From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Oct 1 09:39:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: Message-ID: <3D99B433.7080408@tiac.net> Some think all 1802's use the SOS process, but I beleive that this is not the case, its too expensive for normal parts. Some time back, I got a sample from an engineer at RCA, of a real rad-hard 1802 with extra instructions added to accelerate the Forth Kernel. I beleive that this is called either an 1805, or perhaps an 1806. So does anyone know what suffix is used to indicate the SOS process was used on a given 180x chip? J.C. Wren wrote: > Using www.cosmacelf.com, there are dozens of sites devoted to the 1802. >There are emulators for Windows, Palms, and probably *nix. In fact, just >the other night I converted Frankasm to run under Linux (didn't take much, >but I also went through the 1802 and base code, making prototypes >modernized, and basically getting it to compiled with -W -Wall GCC flags). > > Misc items: The rad-hard version of the 1802 was saphirre on silicon, from >what I've been told. You can pick up the RCA Studio II on eBay pretty >cheap. These are 1802 based. There is the Netronics Elf, Quest Super Elf, >and the RCA SA711 (I own 1 each of the latter, plus a couple of RCA Stdio >II's). One day I stumbled across about 110 pieces of CDP1802ACEs in Austin >Electronics. This got me on the 1802 kick, something I had always wanted to >play with, but never got around to. > > It's a neat instruction set. Not perfect, but powerful. Lends itself to >Forth quite well, and I imagine that a port of GCC to it wouldn't be >outrageous (not compared to braindead architectures like the PIC, at any >rate). Lots of nifty support chips. CDP1823 256x8 RAMS, CDP1861 video, >there are port expanders, larger RAMs, ROMs, the CDP1854 serial chip (found >9 boards on eBay, payed my board builder a couple bucks to desolder them >all), some other stuff. > > Expect to pay dearly for databooks. I won't mentioned what I've spent >lately, especially if Joe Rigdon won't (grin). > > --John > > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >Behalf Of Ben Franchuk >Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 22:11 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Attention 1802 fans... > > >Ross Archer wrote: > >>The 1802 was used in quite a number of Amateur radio ("ham") >>satellites. >>It was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros from >>what I remember >>reading, due in large part to its CMOS construction. I >>guess those days >>there were a few PMOS CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs >>(Z80, 6502, >>9900JL), and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was >>1802 or bust. :) >> >The other CMOS chip at the time was the PDP-8 on a chip. >The 1802 was I think was a special CMOS version that was >latch up and rad-hardened. Several CPU's are rad-hard but > the 1802 was the first cheap one. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021001/e4f61b4c/attachment.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 1 10:04:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... In-Reply-To: <015a01c268f3$5439c910$1301090a@jkearney.com> Message-ID: <20021001150533.58698.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Kearney wrote: > It goes beyond that... there is a Silicon-On-Saphire version which is > considerably more rad-hard than a pure silicon process. In fact even > more recent space probes like Galileo (launched 1989) used 1802s. While it's true that the Galileo _does_ have them and it was launched in 1989, it belies the fact that it was built from a spare Voyager frame. Galileo's design stems from the mid-1970s when the 1802 was a more popular platform for space hardware. Doesn't detract from how cool it is, though. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From jim at jkearney.com Tue Oct 1 10:04:29 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: <3D99B433.7080408@tiac.net> Message-ID: <01b101c2695b$f25c4970$1301090a@jkearney.com> According to this source, all the rad-hardened versions were SOS: "The COSMAC's that flew in space were space/radiation hardened versions using a CMOS/SOS chip technology. These radiation hardened versions were developed in conjunction with the Sandia National Laboratories." Other sources treat the two as separate options. There is also a "high reliability" version, which they designate with "/3". The datasheet is at http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn1/fn1441/fn1441.pdf. Maybe the SOS is "/2" or something like that? I recently built an Elf, BTW: http://www.jkearney.com/elf. It's not going into space anytime soon. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Shannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 10:41 AM Subject: Re: Attention 1802 fans... Some think all 1802's use the SOS process, but I beleive that this is not the case, its too expensive for normal parts. Some time back, I got a sample from an engineer at RCA, of a real rad-hard 1802 with extra instructions added to accelerate the Forth Kernel. I beleive that this is called either an 1805, or perhaps an 1806. So does anyone know what suffix is used to indicate the SOS process was used on a given 180x chip? J.C. Wren wrote: Using www.cosmacelf.com, there are dozens of sites devoted to the 1802.There are emulators for Windows, Palms, and probably *nix. In fact, justthe other night I converted Frankasm to run under Linux (didn't take much,but I also went through the 1802 and base code, making prototypesmodernized, and basically getting it to compiled with -W -Wall GCC flags). Misc items: The rad-hard version of the 1802 was saphirre on silicon, fromwhat I've been told. You can pick up the RCA Studio II on eBay prettycheap. These are 1802 based. There is the Netronics Elf, Quest Super Elf,and the RCA SA711 (I own 1 each of the latter, plus a couple of RCA StdioII's). One day I stumbled across about 110 pieces of CDP1802ACEs in AustinElectronics. This got me on the 1802 kick, something I had always wanted toplay with, but never got around to. It's a n eat instruction set. Not perfect, but powerful. Lends itself toForth quite well, and I imagine that a port of GCC to it wouldn't beoutrageous (not compared to braindead architectures like the PIC, at anyrate). Lots of nifty support chips. CDP1823 256x8 RAMS, CDP1861 video,there are port expanders, larger RAMs, ROMs, the CDP1854 serial chip (found9 boards on eBay, payed my board builder a couple bucks to desolder themall), some other stuff. Expect to pay dearly for databooks. I won't mentioned what I've spentlately, especially if Joe Rigdon won't (grin). --John-----Original Message-----From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]OnBehalf Of Ben FranchukSent: Monday, September 30, 2002 22:11To: cctalk@classiccmp.orgSubject: Re: Attention 1802 fans...Ross Archer wrote: The 1802 was used in quite a number of Amateur radio ("ham")satellites.It was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros fromwhat I rememberreading, due in large part to its CMOS construction. Iguess those daysthere were a few PMOS CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs(Z80, 6502,9900JL), and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was1802 or bust. :) The other CMOS chip at the time was the PDP-8 on a chip.The 1802 was I think was a special CMOS version that waslatch up and rad-hardened. Several CPU's are rad-hard but the 1802 was the first cheap one. From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Oct 1 10:05:01 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:40 2005 Subject: Wang 2200 web site and emulator announcement Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021001014416.021e0ec0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Hello one and all. For the past three or four years, I've actively been looking for a first generation Wang 2200 computer. I actually have two now, mostly working. Over the past couple of months I acquired/developed all the technical information I needed to write an emulator. The emulator is far from complete, but it is quite usable. Besides the emulator, I've overhauled my Wang web site and added a lot more content. Now that the ball is rolling, I hope to maintain it more actively. The web site: http://www.thebattles.net/wang/wang.html The emulator: http://www.thebattles.net/wang/emu.html The emulator runs on win32 platforms right now, but I wrote it using a GUI/system abstraction toolkit, wxWindows, so it should be pretty portable to unix/linux/mac at least. If you have no nostalgia for the 2200, why is it interesting anyway? The first generation came out in 1973. Because it was designed before microprocessors were available, it is a microcoded TTL box. In many ways, it can be compared pretty fairly to home computers that came five years later. Because it predates Microsoft, it has a rich and quirky BASIC dialect. Unfortunately, I don't have any Wang BASIC documents online yet, but I do have a quick comparison of Wang BASIC vs early Microsoft BASIC. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 1 10:11:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021001151238.59561.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > You can pick up the RCA Studio II on eBay pretty cheap. Didn't someone on this list have "somewhere" an article or set of docs for converting a Studio II to an Elf-like computer? I got a Studio II from a buddy of mine. If there aren't any schematics out there, I could start with his - he annotated the entire inside of his unit. > Expect to pay dearly for databooks... Guess I was lucky enough to grab mine when they were current or just falling out of favor. I have a stack (not as large as what Joe recently sold) from 15-20 years ago that cost me cover price ($5) or free. What I _don't_ have that was appealing in that auction is the stack of newsletters. There can be some amazing stuff from those days - people who owned single-board computers were natural tinkerers, the kind that fell from prominence with the release of consumer friendly machines like the PET and the TRS-80 Model I and the Apple II. Not to say that those newer owners were never tinkerers, but getting your mom's permission to modify a $1,000 machine vs a $200 machine... well... the 1802 and other SBCs were easier to experiment with. > > It was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros from > > what I remember reading, due in large part to its CMOS > > construction. I guess those days there were a few PMOS > > CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs (Z80, 6502, 9900JL), > > and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was > > 1802 or bust. :) > The other CMOS chip at the time was the PDP-8 on a chip. Right... the Intersil 6100, and later, the 6120. Available in the mid-1970s in the Intercept Jr. and a few other forms (not including the WT-78 word processor, etc.) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 1 10:16:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... In-Reply-To: <3D98FFCC.809EDE1B@topnow.com> Message-ID: <20021001151654.59141.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ross Archer wrote: > I suppose if e-bay prices go high enough for the chips, you > can always launch a mission to recover one of those sats for > the chip salvage. ;) They haven't been out of production that long, if indeed they _are_ out of production. I bought some Harris 1802 processors, new, in 1999. Besides, I'd like to see anyone recover Voyager 1 and 2. :-) > No doubt at any rate the 1802 was interesting and unique. Agreed. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 1 11:55:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: IBM PC 5150 and 720KB Floppy Drive In-Reply-To: <20020930124337.59664.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Robert Little wrote: > Got a question... > I have just received an original IBM PC; actually, 2 > of them (one had to be parted out). I still haven't > checked the BIOS date, but the machine does have an > origianl Intel 8088 and the power supply appears to be > the original design. Here is the crux of the > problem... > I want to refit the machine with a 720 KB 3 1/2" > drive. This was a fairly easy mod that we used to > perform on XT's, but it seems to have problems finding > the drive. Anybody out there have any experience with > this? Did you set the dipswitches for number of drives? There is literally NO difference between the PC and XT for installing a floppy drive. What EXACTLY do you mean by "problems finding the drive"? What DOS error message do you get? What Int13h error number do you get? If you are concerned about maintaining the pristine "original" nature of it, then install the drive as the third or fourth (external) drive. The original PC and XT disk controllers had a DC37 connector for that. OR, find one of the "rare" IBM original 3.5" retrofit kits with the big faceplate. If you want MS/PC DOS support of it, then you need to use version 3.20 or above, and use DRIVER.SYS. (DRIVPARM is present in both MS-DOS, and PC-DOS (undocumented), but does not work properly with those original IBM BIOSes) Some OEM versions of 2.11 supported 3.5" drives, but those were custom versions, and MODE.COM, etc. may not be right for it. OR, use third party drivers, such as John Henderson's (Tall Tree systems)' JFORMAT. , or Manzanita, or, ... -- Grumpy Ol' Fred From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Oct 1 12:06:06 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: CPMUG Disk Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126F8E@MAIL10> Hello, all: I'm preparing another release of the Altair32 Emulator and I wanted to start building different program diskettes. I remember sometime in the past someone on the list provided me with a file listing from the old CPMUG Archive and also provided a few ZIP files from the archive. Unfortunately, I can't find that person's email address. If someone has this archive (or a pointer to it), please contact me off-list. Thanks. Rich From bernd at kopriva.de Tue Oct 1 12:42:00 2002 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: "Food" for my HP 9000/382 Message-ID: <17wR32-1jI67MC@fmrl08.sul.t-online.com> Hi, i'm looking for another challenge for my HP 9000/382 ... Currently, i've installed NetBSD, but there seems to be a Pascal Operationg environment available ? Does anyone know some details ? Where can i get it ? Which other operating systems are available for that machine ? Thanks Bernd Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de D-71397 Leutenbach Germany From n4fs at monmouth.com Tue Oct 1 13:34:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Hard year References: <00b101c267cc$e68d3b80$d2775243@n4fs> <3D97420C.1040002@mindless.com> Message-ID: <00ed01c26979$2da766a0$d2775243@n4fs> Ross - I feel sorry for you. Hope your endeavors, in the classic computer collecting hobby, works out, regardless of your misguided beliefs. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 2:10 PM Subject: Re: Hard year > Mike Feher wrote: > > >Sellam - > > > >I agree, completely. I also voted for Perot. But, between Clinton and Bush, > >at least to me, there is a world of difference. > > > > You're right. Never since Grant's administration has there been such > rampant corruption, creepy secrecy, and disregard for the common > interest as we've seen since Shrub/Ashcroft/Cheney took office. > At least two of them are proven liars and crooks, and the remaining > one is a religious freak. > > Improvement indeed. Give me almost any president in the last > 100 years and it would be better than the dishonerable liar polluting > the office for his oil and defense buddies. Corrupt to the core, > even worse than Clinton's worst. > > That's a fact, and it's coming to light very slowly, but it IS > coming to light. > > --- Ross > > > > I still cannot believe that > >the majority of the American people voted for Clinton, for two terms. I am > >not claiming that Bush is perfect, but, he is a heck of a lot better in > >every respect than Clinton, from what I can see, from an engineer's > >perspective. As someone else pointed out previously, the people that can > >really do a decent job at being president, unfortunately will not run, or do > >not have the finances to even get it started if they were to. So, our > >choices are limited. But, at least, we do have choices. Fortunately in this > >country, I believe we have the momentum, and the will of the American > >people, to make things continue, properly, during any administration. > >Fluctuations in economy and world opinion will continue regardless. I am a > >consultant, for the military, and as of the new fiscal year I do not have a > >job. I do not blame any one for that. I will make something work out, as I > >have enough confidence in myself and my abilities even at 57. Regards - Mike > > > > > > > >Mike B. Feher, N4FS > >89 Arnold Blvd. > >Howell NJ, 07731 > >(732) 901-9193 > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Sellam Ismail" > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 10:34 AM > >Subject: Re: Hard year > > > > > > > > > >>On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Guys, I lived under communism. I am very happy here. You are all welcome > >>> > >>> > >to > > > > > >>>move. Regards - Mike > >>> > >>> > >>Mike, I understand your sentiment, but there is no excuse for what we have > >>for a political system currently, and who we have in office. > >> > >>Just because other systems were much worse than ours does not mean that we > >>should not seek to make ours more honorable. > >> > >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > >> > >> > >Festival > > > > > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > >---- > > > > > >>International Man of Intrigue and Danger > >> > >> > >http://www.vintage.org > > > > > >> * Old computing resources for business and academia at > >> > >> > >www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Oct 1 13:43:01 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... Message-ID: One thing I really regret is that I bought all of the parts to build an Elf back when the Popular Electronics articles came out (I was only twelve at the time) but never actually finished building it because someone my father worked with gave me a KIM-1 that he no longer needed and it was more interesting to use an already working computer than try to build one. I kept all of the parts and the articles until I returned home from college and then, gasp, threw them out. I really wish I still had them now so I could build the Elf that I never finished. I guess I should just acquire some 1802 chips and finish the job now. I also regret trading in the KIM-1 along with a 8KB ram board and a SWTP terminal that I built from a kit a year or two later for credit toward an Apple II+ when they were brand new. The mistakes of youth... -Glen >From: "Jim Kearney" >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: >Subject: Re: Attention 1802 fans... >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:05:14 -0400 > > >I recently built an Elf, BTW: http://www.jkearney.com/elf. It's not going >into space anytime soon. > >Jim > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 1 14:02:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Latest aquisition: DEC 3000-300 In-Reply-To: <3D8DCFFC.7742.7D3775E@localhost> Message-ID: <20021001190306.5346.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> At the Uni Surplus today, I spotted a lonely DEC 3000-300 with monitor and cables marked $35. It was more than I wanted to spend on it, but I hauled it over to the test table and plugged it all in. The monitor isn't stable, but it did go through its power-on tests, all the way to the "lazy sergant" prompt (>>>). It has 112MB of RAM and a 100MHz CPU. I was about to put it back when the Surplus manager apologized and said that she'd been meaning to mark it down. "$10 and it's yours," so now it's mine. Didn't take the time to boot it up. Figure it has Digital UNIX or OSF/1 on it. Got the keyboard. Needs a mouse. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Oct 1 14:14:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Latest aquisition: DEC 3000-300 In-Reply-To: <20021001190306.5346.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 10/01/02, Ethan Dicks scribbled: > > At the Uni Surplus today, I spotted a lonely DEC 3000-300 with monitor > and cables marked $35. It was more than I wanted to spend on it, but > I hauled it over to the test table and plugged it all in. The monitor > isn't stable, but it did go through its power-on tests, all the way > to the "lazy sergant" prompt (>>>). It has 112MB of RAM and a 100MHz > CPU. I was about to put it back when the Surplus manager apologized > and said that she'd been meaning to mark it down. "$10 and it's yours," > so now it's mine. > Lucky bugger... :-P -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Oct 1 14:26:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Mistakes of youth (Was: Attention 1802 fans...) References: Message-ID: <001b01c26980$9af36d10$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Slick" > I > kept all of the parts and the articles until I returned home from college > and then, gasp, threw them out. I really wish I still had them now so I > could build the Elf that I never finished. I guess I should just acquire > some 1802 chips and finish the job now. > > I also regret trading in the KIM-1 along with a 8KB ram board and a SWTP > terminal that I built from a kit a year or two later for credit toward an > Apple II+ when they were brand new. > I once bought a complete, working Imsai 8008 at a pawn shop for fifty bucks. This would have been about 1987, and the deal included the computer, a terminal, and a dual 8" floppy drive. I used it for a couple of years until I got out of the navy. Deciding that it was too heavy to truck across the country, I gave it away. I really wish I hadn't done that, since I later found out that the guy I gave it to sold it to a scrapper for about 5 dollars. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Oct 1 14:29:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: 11/44 rescue complete References: <3D99A90E.EC60DB7E@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3D99F7E1.4283F938@compsys.to> >"Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > Just a quick note of correction. As of V5.07, RT-11 DOCs > were switched to GREY Binders. If I remember correctly, > they were still ORANGE for V5.06, but that is not certain. > But for sure, they were still orange for V5.04G and almost > certainly still orange for V5.05 of RT-11. Jerome Fine replies: Quick note of correction. Those GREY Binders for the DOCs were from V5.06 of RT-11. Since they came via Mentec in the late 1990s, it is still possible that when DEC originally released V5.06 in 1992 the Binders for the DOCs were still ORANGE. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 1 15:07:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: DRIVPARM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A quick puzzle: When IBM came out with PC-DOS 3.20 (the first version to support 720K 3.5"), it documented DRIVER.SYS, but did not mention DRIVPARM. MS-DOS did document DRIVPARM. (NOTE: some OEM versions of 2.11 had direct support of 720K, often INSTEAD of 360K) When using MS-DOS on "real" IBM PC, XT, AT, and PS/2, DRIVPARM would produce "unrecognized command in CONFIG.SYS". When using PC-DOS on "real" IBM PC, XT, AT, and PS/2, DRIVPARM would produce "unrecognized command in CONFIG.SYS". When using PC-DOS on "real" generic clones, DRIVPARM would work. When using MS-DOS on "real" generic clones, DRIVPARM would work. When I put copies of the IBM BIOS into a generic clone, DRIVPARM would no longer work. Although I can't claim that my sample was enough to be truly certain, it certainly implies that DRIVPARM was incompatible with the IBM BIOS. The error message that was produced does not seem to be accurate as to what the problem was. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From voyager at hol.gr Tue Oct 1 15:20:01 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: DRIVPARM References: Message-ID: <001d01c26987$829b1c20$0100a8c0@voyager3> Please correct me if I am wrong, but on the IBM PC motherboard there should be some jumpers or a dip switch array. Am I wrong? could anybody provide me with the functionality of these jumpers or switches? > A quick puzzle: > <....> > Although I can't claim that my sample was enough to be truly certain, it > certainly implies that DRIVPARM was incompatible with the IBM BIOS. > The error message that was produced does not seem to be accurate as to > what the problem was. > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 1 15:33:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Latest aquisition: DEC 3000-300 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021001203418.16980.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "David A. Woyciesjes" wrote: > On 10/01/02, Ethan Dicks scribbled: > > > > > At the Uni Surplus today, I spotted a lonely DEC 3000-300... 112MB > > of RAM and a 100MHz CPU...$10 > > Lucky bugger... :-P I think the Surplus Manager is still happy with me that I took the DEC 4000-710 off her hands (I really only wanted the TSZ07, but what DEC-head could resist a mini-class box with 192MB of RAM, 1 processor with a second one possible, 5 SCSI buses, disk and tape for less than the cost of shipping the tape drive?) I let her know that I'm interested in anything Digital. She's done a good job of keeping an eye out for me. Unfortunately, they don't get all that much DEC stuff; most of it left years ago. I keep waiting for some really classic stuff to show up, but not lately (I did get some 11/03s w/RX01s from these same guys ten years ago for $10, and some PET 8032s for about the same). They did have three SGI monitors today - two with BNC, one with SGI 13W3 connectors in and out. The "little" ones were under $25; I think the newer, bigger one was $35. One Mac 6100/66, no disk. IBM Selectrics. Thin pickings today. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dittman at dittman.net Tue Oct 1 15:33:18 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Latest aquisition: DEC 3000-300 In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Oct 01, 2002 12:03:06 PM Message-ID: <200210012029.g91KTtE04316@narnia.int.dittman.net> > to the "lazy sergant" prompt (>>>). It has 112MB of RAM and a 100MHz I've always called (and heard others call) the prompt the "dead sergeant". -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 1 15:39:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: PC SWITCHES (was: DRIVPARM In-Reply-To: <001d01c26987$829b1c20$0100a8c0@voyager3> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > Please correct me if I am wrong, but on the IBM PC motherboard there should > be some jumpers or a dip switch array. Am I wrong? could anybody provide me > with the functionality of these jumpers or switches? On the PC, there are TWO switch packs. One for memory size, and one for various option, including number of drives, 8087 installed, etc. On the XT, there is ONE switch pack, and memory is determined during POST. Int 11h maps the switches into AX. Int 12h reports the amount of RAM. 1, 7, 8 are the number of drives 2 is co-processor (half are set wrong) 3, 4 is RAM on motherboard 5, 6 is monitor type -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From voyager at hol.gr Tue Oct 1 16:44:01 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: PC SWITCHES (was: DRIVPARM References: Message-ID: <000b01c26993$391ff5a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> Thanks! But, could you please give me more details on the ON-OFF and meaning? for example the 1,7,8 is for the number of drives. Up to 8 drives? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 11:40 PM Subject: PC SWITCHES (was: DRIVPARM > On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > > > Please correct me if I am wrong, but on the IBM PC motherboard there should > > be some jumpers or a dip switch array. Am I wrong? could anybody provide me > > with the functionality of these jumpers or switches? > > On the PC, there are TWO switch packs. One for memory size, and one for > various option, including number of drives, 8087 installed, etc. > On the XT, there is ONE switch pack, and memory is determined during POST. > > Int 11h maps the switches into AX. > Int 12h reports the amount of RAM. > > 1, 7, 8 are the number of drives > 2 is co-processor (half are set wrong) > 3, 4 is RAM on motherboard > 5, 6 is monitor type > > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 1 18:03:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: new list member.. In-Reply-To: <8D3112E09D20A14CBDE1502C2EF752900A1662@scpdc.sourcecode.co .za> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021001190658.4e47d9d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:28 PM 10/1/02 +0200, JD wrote: >Hi Everyone > >I am new to this mailing list & thought a quick few lines as introductory would be ok. > >I'm a 23yo South African male Systems Developer (Read: microsoft monkey). > >Recently I acquired a lot of old computer systems and since then I have been collecting everything I can find that pre dates the general PC era. > >I will post a URL with a complete listing of all my current goods but here's a few I thought i'd mention seeing as there is very little about these on the internet: >Intel Prompt 80, MDS-800 & ICE. Cool! which ICE unit do you have? I have an Intel MDS-800 with ICE-80, an Intel MDS-888 with an ICE-80, an Intel MDS-235 with hard drive with iCE-85 and ICE-86 and an Intel 320 system. I'm also storing another MDS-225 for a friend of mine. Dwight Elvey and Dave Mabry are also on this list and both have Intel systems and we all use them regularly. I also have various atari/commodore/hp/epson/sharp/ncr computers & handhelds. > >As far as i know i have one of the only few surviving Multitech Microproffessor II (MPR II) machines which is a slightly modified clone of the original apple 2 & apparently the first apple clone to be shipped out of taiwan. > >Back to the intel stuff, who can help me learn to use the MDS & Prompt 80 machines? Programming on a IC level has always been something I've been wanting to get into but alas no newbie resources are readily availible.. is the Prompt 80 ok for this purpose? A prompt 80? I've never seen one. I've seen a few Prompt 48s but never managed to buy one. I assume that it's for the 8080 CPU.? I suspect the Prompt 80 wil be fine, especailly when used with the MDS-800 and ICE-80. Joe (located in central Florida) > >reg >jD > > > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 1 18:04:10 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: "Food" for my HP 9000/382 In-Reply-To: <17wR32-1jI67MC@fmrl08.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021001185357.4e474bce@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Bernd, AFIK all of the HP 9000 series 200s and 300s will all run HP Pascal, HPL and HP BASIC. FWIW the later versions (>5.x) of HP BASIC are frequently called RMB or Rocky Mountain BASIC. HPL is an APL like programming language that first appeared on the 9825. I have all three on my HP 9000 220. What do you want to know? Joe At 07:47 PM 10/1/02 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, >i'm looking for another challenge for my HP 9000/382 ... > >Currently, i've installed NetBSD, but there seems to be a Pascal Operationg environment available ? >Does anyone know some details ? >Where can i get it ? >Which other operating systems are available for that machine ? > >Thanks Bernd > > >Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 >Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de >D-71397 Leutenbach >Germany > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 1 18:29:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: PC SWITCHES (was: DRIVPARM In-Reply-To: <000b01c26993$391ff5a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > Thanks! > But, could you please give me more details on the ON-OFF and meaning? for > example the 1,7,8 is for the number of drives. Up to 8 drives? FOUR drives. Switch 1 was whether or not there were any drives (probably actually whether it should attempt to boot from floppy), and 7 and 8 set how many. More detail than that will have to wait until sometime when I have the technical reference manual handy. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jingber at ix.netcom.com Tue Oct 1 18:31:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: PC SWITCHES (was: DRIVPARM In-Reply-To: <000b01c26993$391ff5a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> References: <000b01c26993$391ff5a0$0100a8c0@voyager3> Message-ID: <1033428631.2001.0.camel@supermicro> http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~preid/pcxtsw.htm IBM PC Switch block 1, near center of board: * Switch 1 * off = Boot from floppy * ON = Don't boot from floppy (goes to Cassette BASIC in ROM) * Switch 2 * off = 8087 Math Chip installed * ON = 8087 NOT installed * Switch 3,4 * ON,ON = One bank of memory * off,ON = Two banks * ON,off = Three banks * off,off = Four banks * Switch 5,6 * off,off = MDA (or Hercules) Video * off,ON = 40 column CGA * ON,off = 80 column CGA * ON,ON = No video or special (EGA, VGA) * Switch 7,8 * ON,ON = 1 floppy drive * off,ON = 2 flops * ON,off = 3 flops * off,off = 4 flops Switch block 2, near power supply: Switches 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 = Total memory installed * Memory installed - sw1 2 3 4 5 * 16K = ON ON ON ON ON * 32K = ON ON ON ON ON * 48K = ON ON ON ON ON * 64K = ON ON ON ON ON * 96K = off ON ON ON ON * 128K = ON off ON ON ON * 160K = off off ON ON ON * 192K = ON ON off ON ON * 224K = off ON off ON ON * 256K = ON off off ON ON * 288K = off off off ON ON * 320K = ON ON ON off ON * 352K = off ON ON off ON * 384K = ON off ON off ON * 416K = off off ON off ON * 448K = ON ON off off ON * 480K = off ON off off ON * 512K = ON off off off ON * 544K = off off off off ON * 576K = ON ON ON ON off * 608K = off ON ON ON off * 640K = ON off ON ON off * Switches 6, 7, 8 * Always off Jeffrey H. Ingber (jingber@ix.netcom.com) On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 17:40, Voyager wrote: > Thanks! > But, could you please give me more details on the ON-OFF and meaning? for > example the 1,7,8 is for the number of drives. Up to 8 drives? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 11:40 PM > Subject: PC SWITCHES (was: DRIVPARM > > > > On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > > > > > Please correct me if I am wrong, but on the IBM PC motherboard there > should > > > be some jumpers or a dip switch array. Am I wrong? could anybody provide > me > > > with the functionality of these jumpers or switches? > > > > On the PC, there are TWO switch packs. One for memory size, and one for > > various option, including number of drives, 8087 installed, etc. > > On the XT, there is ONE switch pack, and memory is determined during POST. > > > > Int 11h maps the switches into AX. > > Int 12h reports the amount of RAM. > > > > 1, 7, 8 are the number of drives > > 2 is co-processor (half are set wrong) > > 3, 4 is RAM on motherboard > > 5, 6 is monitor type > > > > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > > From donm at cts.com Tue Oct 1 18:48:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: PC SWITCHES (was: DRIVPARM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > > Thanks! > > But, could you please give me more details on the ON-OFF and meaning? for > > example the 1,7,8 is for the number of drives. Up to 8 drives? > > FOUR drives. > Switch 1 was whether or not there were any drives (probably actually > whether it should attempt to boot from floppy), and 7 and 8 set how > many. > More detail than that will have to wait until sometime when I have the > technical reference manual handy. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com There is a small program, the PC Magazine System Checkout Utility, called STATUS.COM which should answer many of your questions as well as show you the "status" of your machine's switch settings. I would guess that it is still around on the web somewhere that google can find it. If not, I can email it to you. - don From archer at topnow.com Tue Oct 1 18:52:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Altair-what do I do first References: <3.0.6.16.20020929081532.4fcf959e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3D971938.6060608@tiac.net> <3.0.6.16.20021001084506.0ebf49de@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D9A3568.61F9B747@topnow.com> Joe wrote: > > At 12:23 PM 9/29/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Bob Shannon wrote: > > > >> Thanks for catching my typo Joe. The MTBF (mean time between > >> failures) is greatly REDUCED by unsoldering chips, often very > >> dramatically so. > > > > > >Hmm, I never even thought of this one before. > >Yet another general argument for sockets. :) > > Yes and no. I used to be all in favor of sockets but what I've found over the years is that sockets generally cause more problems than they fix. Yes they make repairs easier but electrolysis bewteen the IC leads and the sockets cause problems in time, even to the point to where the leads will corrode completely through and fall off or break when you try to remove them. In addition, ICs tend to creep out of the sockets and have to be periodicly reseated. Using GOOD quality sockets (gold pins) and ICs (mil-spec parts) minimizes problems but are EXPENSIVE (unless you're a good scounger like me and can get them free :-). My personal opinion is to do like most of the good manuafacturers have done and to install SSI ICs directly on the board and install EPROMs, CPUs and specailized parts in sockets. That seems to a good compromise between cost, repairablility and reliability. I've definitely seen the case where reseating chips was necessary with sockets. There's no doubt you're right; the correct approach is to socket any chip that you might reasonably replace during the product's service lifetime (EPROMs), parts that can be user-populated, or any chips that are either exceptionally likely to fail or exceptionally difficult to remove. :) Still, I love getting a board with sockets, because it means it's easier for me to scavange (at worst) or repair. > > > > >I would think if you had an adjustable DC supply, > >you could gradually ramp up the voltage on the unregulated > >input and watch the output with a voltmeter. If it ever got > >to 5.25 volts, you'd not want to ramp any higher and replace > >the regulator. > > > Of course you can. All the arguments about removing ICs to check the regulators is rediculous! Who in their right mind would remove 50 to 100 ICs to test one part with only three leads! If they're THAT worried about worried about the regulators it would be MUCH easier to remove it and test it by itself instead of removing all those ICs! OR even better, wire a brand new 7805 or whatnot in a circuit with a resistive load to verify it works, then solder it in place of the old one, since regulators are so vital and yet so cheap. > > >That wouldn't help with re-forming caps though. > > Actually it would. You're just powering the circuit from a variable DC supply instead of a variable AC supply and you're bypassing the transformer and retifiers. I meant it wouldn't help if your variable supply was on the input side fo the regulator, rather than the output side. I'm tempted to experiment with a 7805 by applying a voltage on the output side and nothing on the input, to see if this is safe. If so, your idea of using a bench supply with current limiting, and possibly ramping up voltage gradually to re-form caps, is a zero-desolder, zero-tamper solution which ought to work well. > > Maybe > >you'd start at the output of the regulator and work up from > >a very low voltage? > > Assuming that the circuits are designed to operate off of 5 VDC, you should be able to safely start at that voltage or maybe slightly less and then increase the voltage to the rated voltage (8 volts or so for S-100 type cards) while monitoring the output. (In fact, you can take the voltage all the way to the input limit of the regulator as long as the regulator can dissapate the heat generated.) If you want to reform caps at the same time then start lower, say 1 VDC. > > Another advantage of using a bench type power supply is that you can set a current limit in case a cap or anything on the board is shorted and the chances of doing any damage are greatly minimized. The current limit setting is sort of a SWAG. On a fully populated board I'd probably start at 1/2 of the rated current of the regulator and probably have to raise the setting to get it to operate. On a board that's not fully populated I'd reduce the current in proportion to the percentage of ICs that are installed on the card. I generally keep notes on how much current various devices draw, If you ever have to test a similar device those notes give a good starting point. I use bench power supplies like this ALL the type, IMO they should be a repairman's second investment after a good meter, even before buying an O'scope. > > Or would undervoltage hurt some > >components due to a mysterious process I'm not aware of? > > It's POSSIBLE that some IC or circuit might latch up and cause a problem but I'd say the chances of that happening is between slim and none on a TTL circuit. I have seen that kind of thing happen on CMOS devices such as HP calculators but even there it doesn't do any damage, it just causes the device to lock up. Bear in mind that at this point we don't care if the circuit is operating, only that there aren't any shorts or things of that type. > > Joe Nice ideas. If one were really seriously into collecting, you could really make an argument for needing a good quality bench supply. Wonder what percentage of folks on classiccmp have one? I bet it's a fair number? (Me: 25 Mhz scope, logic pulser, logic probe, numerous VOMs, an RCL meter, an impedance meter, is it. I *knew* there was something neat I was missing!) :) -- Ross > > > >-- Ross > > > > > >> > >> > >> Ever notice the soldering specifications for TTL devices, like 300 > >> degrees C for not more than 10 seconds? This limitation is given for > >> the parts to meet their rated MTBF, not because 300 degrees C for 11 > >> seconds will destroy the parts right away. > >> > >> Resolder the parts, and you may be throwing away well over half their > >> service life. Clearly not a professional way to restore a machine. > >> For some repairs, we have no other option, but melting solder is a > >> last resort. > >> > >> > >> Joe wrote: > >> > >>> At 10:38 PM 9/28/02 -0400, you wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> If you think this does the least dammage, your grossly in error. As > >>>> a test engineer, I can direct you to any number > >>>> of volumes that will show you the dramatic increase in MTBF > >>>> > >>> > >>> I think you mean dramatic DECREASE in MTBF. But I doubt many > >>> people on this list even truely understand what MTBF is. I worked in > >>> reliablility, logisitics and maintainablity so I'm prpobably one of > >>> the few that would catch this. > >>> > >>> Joe > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> for > >>> > >>>> resoldered parts. This is known, for-sure dammage, not some risk of > >>>> dammage from a theoretical regulator failure. > >>>> > >>>> Care to defend this position? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > From archer at topnow.com Tue Oct 1 19:02:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: <20021001151654.59141.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D9A37BF.1283EA88@topnow.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Ross Archer wrote: > > I suppose if e-bay prices go high enough for the chips, you > > can always launch a mission to recover one of those sats for > > the chip salvage. ;) > > They haven't been out of production that long, if indeed they > _are_ out of production. I bought some Harris 1802 processors, > new, in 1999. WOW. One thing for still producing the chip: I bet they've amortized the development cost by now. :) Have they cranked up the clock rates or made any improvements, do you know? I know you can get a WDC 6502 that runs at 14 Mhz, (I'm running one at 6 Mhz and it isn't too shabby, speedwise, but I had to screen a fair batch of 6522s and 65C51s to get ones that operated reliably at this bus speed), so maybe there's a 200 Mhz 1802 out there? ;) > Besides, I'd like to see anyone recover Voyager 1 and 2. :-) That would be one heckuva road-trip. I was being silly of course. If you needed an 1802 for an existing design badly enough, and couldn't buy a new one, you could undoubtedly create a clone of it on an FPGA on a little PCB and a 40-pin DIP header. It can't be a lot of complexity as 8 bitters go. > > > No doubt at any rate the 1802 was interesting and unique. > > Agreed. Another thing I recall is it was one of the few micros I knew of at the time that provided for easy tri-stating to take control of the bus, such as for DMA or even multiprocessing. Another legacy of being CMOS, I suspect. -- Ross > > -ethan > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! > http://sbc.yahoo.com From donm at cts.com Tue Oct 1 19:03:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: PC SWITCHES (was: DRIVPARM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > > > Thanks! > > > But, could you please give me more details on the ON-OFF and meaning? for > > > example the 1,7,8 is for the number of drives. Up to 8 drives? > > > > FOUR drives. > > Switch 1 was whether or not there were any drives (probably actually > > whether it should attempt to boot from floppy), and 7 and 8 set how > > many. > > More detail than that will have to wait until sometime when I have the > > technical reference manual handy. > > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > There is a small program, the PC Magazine System Checkout Utility, > called STATUS.COM which should answer many of your questions as well > as show you the "status" of your machine's switch settings. I would > guess that it is still around on the web somewhere that google can > find it. If not, I can email it to you. > - don It has one problem though. It is confused as to OFF and ON!!! - don From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Oct 1 19:07:00 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" Message-ID: <20021001170427.J52018-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Greetings all; Finances suck at present, and to be honest I don't know if I'm going to be able to make VCF this year. (foo) So... in an attempt to free up some much needed $$ and keep the lights on, (and maybe even get to VCF) I'm having a "Garage Sale". (appropriate, no?) The offering list and details can be found at: http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/Gsale Any questions, drop me a note. Thanks! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From archer at topnow.com Tue Oct 1 19:23:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Hard year References: <00b101c267cc$e68d3b80$d2775243@n4fs> <3D97420C.1040002@mindless.com> <00ed01c26979$2da766a0$d2775243@n4fs> Message-ID: <3D9A3CBA.47651369@topnow.com> Mike Feher wrote: > > Ross - I feel sorry for you. Hope your endeavors, in the classic computer > collecting hobby, works out, regardless of your misguided beliefs. Regards - > Mike Thanks, and a sincere wish things go well for you too. I would very much like to be wrong about the rest. Time will surely tell. -- Ross > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS > 89 Arnold Blvd. > Howell NJ, 07731 > (732) 901-9193 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross Archer" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 2:10 PM > Subject: Re: Hard year > > > Mike Feher wrote: > > > > >Sellam - > > > > > >I agree, completely. I also voted for Perot. But, between Clinton and > Bush, > > >at least to me, there is a world of difference. > > > > > > > You're right. Never since Grant's administration has there been such > > rampant corruption, creepy secrecy, and disregard for the common > > interest as we've seen since Shrub/Ashcroft/Cheney took office. > > At least two of them are proven liars and crooks, and the remaining > > one is a religious freak. > > > > Improvement indeed. Give me almost any president in the last > > 100 years and it would be better than the dishonerable liar polluting > > the office for his oil and defense buddies. Corrupt to the core, > > even worse than Clinton's worst. > > > > That's a fact, and it's coming to light very slowly, but it IS > > coming to light. > > > > --- Ross > > > > > > > I still cannot believe that > > >the majority of the American people voted for Clinton, for two terms. I > am > > >not claiming that Bush is perfect, but, he is a heck of a lot better in > > >every respect than Clinton, from what I can see, from an engineer's > > >perspective. As someone else pointed out previously, the people that can > > >really do a decent job at being president, unfortunately will not run, or > do > > >not have the finances to even get it started if they were to. So, our > > >choices are limited. But, at least, we do have choices. Fortunately in > this > > >country, I believe we have the momentum, and the will of the American > > >people, to make things continue, properly, during any administration. > > >Fluctuations in economy and world opinion will continue regardless. I am > a > > >consultant, for the military, and as of the new fiscal year I do not have > a > > >job. I do not blame any one for that. I will make something work out, as > I > > >have enough confidence in myself and my abilities even at 57. Regards - > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > >Mike B. Feher, N4FS > > >89 Arnold Blvd. > > >Howell NJ, 07731 > > >(732) 901-9193 > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Sellam Ismail" > > >To: > > >Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 10:34 AM > > >Subject: Re: Hard year > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>Guys, I lived under communism. I am very happy here. You are all > welcome > > >>> > > >>> > > >to > > > > > > > > >>>move. Regards - Mike > > >>> > > >>> > > >>Mike, I understand your sentiment, but there is no excuse for what we > have > > >>for a political system currently, and who we have in office. > > >> > > >>Just because other systems were much worse than ours does not mean that > we > > >>should not seek to make ours more honorable. > > >> > > >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > >> > > >> > > >Festival > > > > > > > > > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >> > > >---- > > > > > > > > >>International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > >> > > >> > > >http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > > > >> * Old computing resources for business and academia at > > >> > > >> > > >www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 1 19:25:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: PC SWITCHES (was: DRIVPARM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > There is a small program, the PC Magazine System Checkout Utility, > > called STATUS.COM which should answer many of your questions as well > > as show you the "status" of your machine's switch settings. I would > > guess that it is still around on the web somewhere that google can > > find it. If not, I can email it to you. It is presumably just doing an INT 11h and parsing the bits of AX. I used to assign that as homework to my assembly language classes. That gave excellent practice with using AND, SHR, etc. But the switch settings no longer provide reliable info. Hmmmm. maybe I should assign reading the CMOS and displaying the information that it represents. > It has one problem though. It is confused as to OFF and ON!!! Each of the switches is switched to "open" for "YES". Therefore, "logical ON" became "electrical off" One of the first rounds of IBM's "Guide to Operations" had it backwards for the setting for the "Math coprocessor present" switch! That resulted in half of the machines being set wrong. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Tue Oct 1 19:39:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Latest aquisition: DEC 3000-300 In-Reply-To: <200210012029.g91KTtE04316@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021002103904.02628c50@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 03:29 PM 1/10/2002 -0500, Eric Dittman wrote: > > to the "lazy sergant" prompt (>>>). It has 112MB of RAM and a 100MHz > >I've always called (and heard others call) the prompt the "dead sergeant". I always refer to it as the "triple arrow" prompt. I must have got this from either the local Digital engineer or possibly off comp.os.vms after we installed our first alpha in 1992. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Oct 1 19:45:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Latest aquisition: DEC 3000-300 Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469BC@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> We call it "the chevron" here.. :) --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Huw Davies [mailto:Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au] > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 2:40 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Latest aquisition: DEC 3000-300 > > > At 03:29 PM 1/10/2002 -0500, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > to the "lazy sergant" prompt (>>>). It has 112MB of RAM > and a 100MHz > > > >I've always called (and heard others call) the prompt the > "dead sergeant". > > I always refer to it as the "triple arrow" prompt. I must > have got this > from either the > local Digital engineer or possibly off comp.os.vms after we > installed our > first alpha > in 1992. > > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au > | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > | air, the sky would be painted green" > > From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Oct 1 19:50:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469BD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hey all, Does anyone have info on this beastie? I'm trying to convince it to be nice to me and lock itself to 1600bpi, but it doesn't wanna play... :( --fred -- InterNetworking, Network Security and Communications Consultants MicroWalt Corporation (Netherlands), Postbus 8, 1400 AA BUSSUM Phone +31 (35) 6980059 FAX +31 (35) 6980215 http://WWW.MicroWalt.NL/ Dit bericht en eventuele bijlagen is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding aan derden is niet toegestaan. Er wordt geen verantwoordelijkheid genomen voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Oct 1 20:22:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: new list member.. Message-ID: <200210020123.SAA14997@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Joe > >At 12:28 PM 10/1/02 +0200, JD wrote: >>Hi Everyone >> >>I am new to this mailing list & thought a quick few lines as introductory would be ok. >> >>I'm a 23yo South African male Systems Developer (Read: microsoft monkey). >> >>Recently I acquired a lot of old computer systems and since then I have been collecting everything I can find that pre dates the general PC era. >> >>I will post a URL with a complete listing of all my current goods but here's a few I thought i'd mention seeing as there is very little about these on the internet: >>Intel Prompt 80, MDS-800 & ICE. > > Cool! which ICE unit do you have? I have an Intel MDS-800 with ICE-80, an Intel MDS-888 with an ICE-80, an Intel MDS-235 with hard drive with iCE-85 and ICE-86 and an Intel 320 system. I'm also storing another MDS-225 for a friend of mine. Dwight Elvey and Dave Mabry are also on this list and both have Intel systems and we all use them regularly. > > > > I also have various atari/commodore/hp/epson/sharp/ncr computers & handhelds. >> >>As far as i know i have one of the only few surviving Multitech Microproffessor II (MPR II) machines which is a slightly modified clone of the original apple 2 & apparently the first apple clone to be shipped out of taiwan. >> >>Back to the intel stuff, who can help me learn to use the MDS & Prompt 80 machines? Programming on a IC level has always been something I've been wanting to get into but alas no newbie resources are readily availible.. is the Prompt 80 ok for this purpose? > > A prompt 80? I've never seen one. I've seen a few Prompt 48s but never managed to buy one. I assume that it's for the 8080 CPU.? I suspect the Prompt Hi Prompt48 is for the 8048/49/35 parts. I don't have one of these but I do have a Prompt 2920. Dwight 80 wil be fine, especailly when used with the MDS-800 and ICE-80. > > Joe (located in central Florida) > > >> >>reg >>jD >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Oct 1 20:45:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Great Finds Today at Auction Message-ID: <001701c269b5$7ee3f1a0$e8010240@oemcomputer> 1. hp 25C calculator with case and quick reference guide but no charger. 2. Direct Logic 405 PLC by Koyo with DL440 CPU 22.5K word, I/O base 4 slot, DC input module, and 8 channel analog module. 3. Atari 130XE with a XF551 ext. FD (51/4) for it. 4. Magnavox Color monitor 40 5. Commodore 1084S monitor 6. Vtech The Equalizer laptop in the box with mouse, manual, and ac adapter for it. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 1 21:53:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469BD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469BD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <2345.4.20.168.172.1033527276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Fred N. van Kempen" writes about the HP 7980S 9-track tape drive: > Does anyone have info on this beastie? Yes. It's basically the same as the 88780. I've got the user and service manuals somewhere. > I'm trying to convince it to be > nice to me and lock itself to 1600bpi, but it doesn't wanna play... :( You can only tell it what density to use when writing. It autodetects for reading, and AFAIK there is no way to override that. From donm at cts.com Tue Oct 1 22:05:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: CPMUG Disk In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126F8E@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Cini, Richard wrote: > Hello, all: > > I'm preparing another release of the Altair32 Emulator and I wanted > to start building different program diskettes. > > I remember sometime in the past someone on the list provided me with > a file listing from the old CPMUG Archive and also provided a few ZIP files > from the archive. Unfortunately, I can't find that person's email address. > > If someone has this archive (or a pointer to it), please contact me > off-list. > > Thanks. > Rich, come up on www.retroarchive.org/cpm/cdrom/SINTEL/CPMUG and you should be able to find your desired file. - don From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 1 22:58:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" In-Reply-To: <20021001170427.J52018-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <20021002035905.62764.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- James Willing wrote: > So... in an attempt to free up some much needed $$ and keep the lights > on, (and maybe even get to VCF) I'm having a "Garage Sale"... Foo! Missed the high-speed punch/reader card. Been looking for one for a while. I have one punch/reader on an 11/34, another on a PDP-8/L (one PC04, one PC05; forget which one goes where at the moment). It would be very handy to have an OMNIBUS board to debug my -8/e. Sigh. That's the second one I've heard of too late recently. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Oct 1 23:32:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> <3D985818.8030502@tiac.net> <3D988D0C.4030906@tiac.net> Message-ID: <00c501c269cc$e36224a0$073bcd18@D73KSM11> Any chance you can post a scan of this board? I'd like to compare it to some of the ones from my Cosmac Development System -- scans at http://home.earthlink.net/~msmith6020/Cosmac/ -W > I've just found something rather rare, and I'm willing to part with it, > so... > > For Sale or Trade (Not listed on eBay!): > > An RCA CDP 1801 CPU board, New Old Stock, with matching edge-card > connector. The PCB artwork is labled "RCA GPA 3903822/02 PCA 47-5", and > "3901822". > > This is a 4.25 inch by 2.75 inch (including fingers) blue-colored PCB > with a 40-pin CDP1801UD data path chip and its > associated 28-pin SSTC TA6890W control store ROM, along with some > passive support components. The IC's are > in white ceramic with gold covers. Even the Beckman 22K resistor DIP is > in a white ceramic package. PCB traces are tinned over a blue > substrate, with a 44-pin gold edge finger connector. > > The mating connector is a Sullins ETM22DSEH in a matching blue color, > for some reason (because is looks really cool?). > > This two-chip CPU is a very early example of the RCA COSMAC CPU design > built prior to the much more common CDP1802 single-chip processor. > Dates codes are 7539 for the data path, and 7525 for the SSTC chip. > Condition is absolutely mint, NOS-condition, but untested. No > documentation, but I ~MAY~ be able to find something on this board, just > don't count on it. > > I'll also include a pair of vintage HP hexidecimal displays exactly like > those used on the original ELF project, to make this combo the starting > point for a really special ELF project. > > (Some ceramic 1852's may also be available) > > > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Oct 2 00:00:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: 11/44 rescue complete In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >used as a serial line concentrator. The system runs RSX-11M. A Blue Wall > >came with it, and about 20 diskpacks. > > Out of curiousity just how old does RSX-11M have to be in order for it to > have Blue Binders for the Doc's? I know RT-11 V3 rates Blue Binders, yet > V4 and V5 are Orange, as is V4.2 of RSX-11M. In other words, just what > version did you get? Seems to be V3.3, Fortran IV, and a Pascal of some kind.... Cheers John From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Oct 2 00:29:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen"'s message of "Wed, 2 Oct 2002 02:50:59 +0200" References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469BD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <200210020515.g925F0e8059829@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > Does anyone have info on this beastie? I'm trying to convince it to be > nice to me and lock itself to 1600bpi, but it doesn't wanna play... :( CONF 46 -Frank McConnell From luser at xtra.co.nz Wed Oct 2 02:14:00 2002 From: luser at xtra.co.nz (Kenneth Dunn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 300 PSU Message-ID: Hi all, I'm in need of details on the DEC 3000 300 power supply. I've been give one that has none. The cost of getting a suitable PSU from Compaq USA to NZ is more than I make in a week. I'd like to try my hand at building one. Cheers. From stefan at softhome.net Wed Oct 2 02:15:00 2002 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: For swap : Philips NMS 8245 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021001231941.02285ab0@pop.softhome.net> Hi, I have here for swap a Philips NMS 8245 MSX2 system. Willing to swap for almost anything vintage computer related. Stefan. From aek at spies.com Wed Oct 2 02:15:12 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: microdata 9000 Message-ID: <200210012250.g91MoWKG018048@spies.com> the person auctioning the microdata on ebay forwarded a picture to me, which i've put up at www.spies.com/aek/microdata it's a model 9000 with a cipher 880 the auction is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2057885211 From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 2 07:19:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:41 2005 Subject: microdata 9000 References: <200210012250.g91MoWKG018048@spies.com> Message-ID: <000f01c26a0d$e2cb7960$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> That's a SEQUEL machine... the last of the Pick machines from Microdata/McDonnel Douglas Computer Systems... except for the Series 18. The SEQUEL was a wonderful pick machine, capable of supporting around 120 users fairly well. If I wasn't behind the 8-ball cash-wise, I'd grab this system. I wrote a lot of the 1/2" Mag Tape code on the SEQUEL OS so there's some sentimental value there. I sure hope someone preserves it. One word of caution... this machine I believe (like most of the Microdata line I am sure), had the firmware on a board in the cpu chassis. This firmware was what translated the missionary (pick virtual assembler) instructions to native instructions. As a result, the machine is completely 100% useless without that board. It was very common practice in the final years of MDCS that when a system was decomissioned, the FE was required to go out and pull the microcode board. They considered the microcode board as something that was part of your maintenance contract (they retained ownership of the board), so if you were no longer paying maintenance they took the board so you couldn't use or resell the system (at least unless you sold it to someone who put it on maintenance). There have been a few of these found in the wild with the firmware board still installed. Anyone wanting to get this system should definitely check for that board first. Regards, Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 5:50 PM Subject: microdata 9000 > > the person auctioning the microdata on ebay forwarded a picture to > me, which i've put up at www.spies.com/aek/microdata > > it's a model 9000 with a cipher 880 > > the auction is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2057885211 > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 2 07:21:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469BD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <200210020515.g925F0e8059829@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <001f01c26a0e$1f6cb6e0$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> We still have quite a few 7980S units here in production. I'll see if I can find one of the manuals and look up the front panel magic. However, just going from memory, I seem to recall that the drive senses the last recorded density on the tape, and wants to keep using that. I'll look... Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank McConnell" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 12:14 AM Subject: Re: HP 7980S scsi 9-track > "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > > Does anyone have info on this beastie? I'm trying to convince it to be > > nice to me and lock itself to 1600bpi, but it doesn't wanna play... :( > > CONF 46 > > -Frank McConnell > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Oct 2 08:42:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Mistakes of youth (Was: Attention 1802 fans...) References: <001b01c26980$9af36d10$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <3D9AF853.8070608@tiac.net> As long as we are all confessing... I actually shoved my beloved DEC Graphic PDP11/40 off the back of a truck, then saw it crunched by a massive electromagent hanging from a crane at the scrap yard. It smashed that 11/40 flat in a heartbeat. At least I'd saved most of its guts, and the 11/35 'spare' CPU chassis (now Tom Uban's) and VT-11 hardware. I was closing down a business venture, and had no place to store the machine. I still had a 11/34 at the time, so the massive and hungry 11/40 system simply had to go. Christopher McNabb wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Glen Slick" > >>I >>kept all of the parts and the articles until I returned home from college >>and then, gasp, threw them out. I really wish I still had them now so I >>could build the Elf that I never finished. I guess I should just acquire >>some 1802 chips and finish the job now. >> >>I also regret trading in the KIM-1 along with a 8KB ram board and a SWTP >>terminal that I built from a kit a year or two later for credit toward an >>Apple II+ when they were brand new. >> > >I once bought a complete, working Imsai 8008 at a pawn shop for fifty bucks. >This would have been about 1987, and the deal included the computer, a >terminal, and a dual 8" floppy drive. I used it for a couple of years until >I got out of the navy. Deciding that it was too heavy to truck across the >country, I gave it away. I really wish I hadn't done that, since I later >found out that the guy I gave it to sold it to a scrapper for about 5 >dollars. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021002/c3c89559/attachment.html From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Oct 2 09:16:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" In-Reply-To: <20021001170427.J52018-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On 10/01/02, James Willing scribbled: > ... in an attempt to free up some much needed $$ and keep the lights on, > (and maybe even get to VCF) I'm having a "Garage Sale". (appropriate, > no?) > > The offering list and details can be found at: > > http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/Gsale > I don't think it's me, but the web server is not responding... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Oct 2 10:20:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" In-Reply-To: <20021001170427.J52018-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021002112030.043403b0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Jim - I couldn't reach your web site to get your address. Could you drop me a note with it so I can get the bucks out to you? Thanks! -- Tony At 05:08 PM 10/1/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Greetings all; > >Finances suck at present, and to be honest I don't know if I'm going to be >able to make VCF this year. (foo) > >So... in an attempt to free up some much needed $$ and keep the lights on, >(and maybe even get to VCF) I'm having a "Garage Sale". (appropriate, >no?) > >The offering list and details can be found at: > > http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/Gsale > >Any questions, drop me a note. > >Thanks! >-jim >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From bernd at kopriva.de Wed Oct 2 10:31:00 2002 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: "Food" for my HP 9000/382 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021001185357.4e474bce@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <17wlTV-0nIQbYC@fmrl08.sul.t-online.com> Hi Joe, i know the Pascal environment for the 9826/9836 machines, as i've used it for some months ... ... that was about 20 years ago :-) ... Can that version be used for the 9000/382 as well or is there a special one for the 9000/382 ? I've seen only 2 or 3 messages on dejanews regarding a pascal for the 9000/382, and i've found no product information, so i'm not sure, that there is such a version at all ... Bernd On Tue, 01 Oct 2002 18:53:57, Joe wrote: >Hi Bernd, > > AFIK all of the HP 9000 series 200s and 300s will all run HP Pascal, HPL and HP BASIC. FWIW the later versions (>5.x) of HP BASIC are frequently called RMB or Rocky Mountain BASIC. HPL is an APL like programming language that first appeared on the 9825. I have all three on my HP 9000 220. What do you want to know? > > Joe > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 2 11:34:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Great Finds Today at Auction In-Reply-To: <001701c269b5$7ee3f1a0$e8010240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021002123157.0ef775fc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Nice finds! The HP 25 uses the HP 82041A charger in the US. There are other chargers for other countries with different AC power outlets. The charger puts out 10 VAC at 18 VA. You can probably get one from E-bay if you're willing to pay the price! Check you battery pack, it's probably shot. But they use two AA NiCad cells and they're easy to rebuilt. Just pop the plastic shell open along the seem and slip in two new cells with a strap across the one end. There's a spring in there that SHOULD provide continuity between the cells but don't trust it. They corrode with age and won't give you reliable contact. Joe At 08:46 PM 10/1/02 -0500, John Keys wrote: >1. hp 25C calculator with case and quick reference guide but no charger. >2. Direct Logic 405 PLC by Koyo with DL440 CPU 22.5K word, I/O base 4 slot, >DC input module, and 8 channel analog module. >3. Atari 130XE with a XF551 ext. FD (51/4) for it. >4. Magnavox Color monitor 40 >5. Commodore 1084S monitor >6. Vtech The Equalizer laptop in the box with mouse, manual, and ac adapter >for it. > > From chris.muller at mullermedia.com Wed Oct 2 12:54:01 2002 From: chris.muller at mullermedia.com (Chris Muller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: RK05 or RK07 Message-ID: <002201c26a3c$e5dd68f0$6401a8c0@CMHPLAPTOP> Hi, I've been asked to try to get some data (to CD) from some number of RK05 and/or RK07 packs. I have an old 11/73 floating around, but I believe the RK's were only for Unibus, so the drives alone wouldn't help me. My contact is unaware of the O/S, but I resume its got to be RT or RSX. (?) Is there anyone in or near NYC that can handle these? If you can get the files to a tape via COPY, I think we can take it from there. Regards, Chris Muller Muller Media Conversions www.mullermedia.com 800-OLD2NEW or 212-3440474 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021002/f6bcd76a/attachment.html From jss at subatomix.com Wed Oct 2 13:00:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: First Indirect Addressing? Message-ID: <190352238221.20021002125803@subatomix.com> Ok, I've got a friend in academia who wants to know: What was the first computer to support indirect addressing? While I expect no definite answer (as if I had asked "what is the first computer" :-), it should be an interesting discussion. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Oct 2 13:20:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: RK05 or RK07 In-Reply-To: <002201c26a3c$e5dd68f0$6401a8c0@CMHPLAPTOP> References: <002201c26a3c$e5dd68f0$6401a8c0@CMHPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <91353416055.20021002131741@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, Chris Muller wrote: > I believe the RK's were only for Unibus, so the drives alone wouldn't help > me. There is an RKV11 Qbus controller. -- Jeffrey Sharp From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 2 13:26:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: First Indirect Addressing? Message-ID: <200210021826.LAA15529@clulw009.amd.com> >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Ok, I've got a friend in academia who wants to know: > > What was the first computer to support indirect addressing? > >While I expect no definite answer (as if I had asked "what is the first >computer" :-), it should be an interesting discussion. > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp > > Hi My Nicolet 1080 uses indirect addressing as its primary form of addressing. It was designed in the late 60's sometime. This is the only way to address out of the current page. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 2 13:55:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Stuff on ebay Message-ID: <200210021855.LAA15582@clulw009.amd.com> I see some of the strangest stuff on ebay: ROCKWELL's 6502 (100% 6800 code compatible) Dwight From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Oct 2 14:11:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Stuff on ebay References: <200210021855.LAA15582@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3D9B44BD.3080305@jetnet.ab.ca> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I see some of the strangest stuff on ebay: > > ROCKWELL's 6502 (100% 6800 code compatible) > > Dwight That don't sound right!. The 6501 was 6800 pin out compatable but Motorola did like that idea. Thus the 6502 was born. From allain at panix.com Wed Oct 2 14:14:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" References: <20021001170427.J52018-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <003901c26a47$feed9300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- http://www.rdrop.com/+AH4-jimw/Gsale +AHs-down+AH0- +AD4- Any questions, drop me a note. I look forward to being able to view this. Let me know how to do so, personally if it's necessary. Jim, you can email me a page too if it's less than 1MB. John A. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Oct 2 14:20:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Stuff on ebay References: <200210021855.LAA15582@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3D9B4653.3ED36DEF@ccp.com> "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > I see some of the strangest stuff on ebay: > > ROCKWELL's 6502 (100% 6800 code compatible) He probably runs windows XP on it as well, using it as a firewall/intranet server for the house. "It is best to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." unknown . . Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Oct 2 14:34:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Searching for eBay seller "Mobybids" In-Reply-To: References: <20021001170427.J52018-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021002153058.05bffeb0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Has anyone on the list dealt with the eBay seller known as "Mobybids"? He/she recently won a couple of auctions for some old DEC documentation. In particular, a teacher's guide ( I have the workbook, but not this) for the DEC Computer Lab really caught my eye, but I got outbid. I've tried sending a couple of eBay "Question from eBay member" notes to Mobybids, but got no response. I should probably take the hint and just stop trying, but I thought I'd run it by the list anyway, just in case. -- Tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Oct 2 15:09:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Help Needed with NT 4 Password Message-ID: <000701c26a4f$ac8a2350$6e010240@oemcomputer> Just purchased a digital Prioris HX 5133DP server at a auction and it is password protected. It powers up ok and then ask for the admin password. Does anyone know a work around to get into this system? Can put a new version of NT 4 on top of it? I do have a legal CD that I got last year that could install on top if I will not lose the drivers that are already on the machine. Thanks in advance for any help. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 2 15:41:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: RK05 or RK07 In-Reply-To: <91353416055.20021002131741@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20021002204235.56301.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, Chris Muller wrote: > > > I believe the RK's were only for Unibus, so the drives alone wouldn't > > help me. > > There is an RKV11 Qbus controller. Yep. I loaned mine to Jerome Fine. Works like a champ. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 2 15:50:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: RK05 or RK07 In-Reply-To: <002201c26a3c$e5dd68f0$6401a8c0@CMHPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20021002205107.26037.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chris Muller wrote: > Hi, > > I've been asked to try to get some data (to CD) from some number of RK05 > and/or RK07 packs. I have an old 11/73 floating around, but I believe the > RK's were only for Unibus, so the drives alone wouldn't help me. As mentioned in another reply of this thread (I read from new to old), there is an RKV11D for the RK05s. AFAIK, though, there is only the RK611 controller for the RK07 drives - Unibus - in its own 9-slot backplane. I've seen them in their own enclosure, and alongside a DD11-DC in a full-sized BA-11. I used to have one, but it, the four RK07 drives (2 working, 2 spares) and the forty-some disk packs did not survive the closing of my employer 9 years ago. I got lots of stuff, but those had to be left behind. :-( > My contact is unaware of the O/S, but I resume its got to be RT or RSX. Knowing the filesystem will help. Plus, unless you have reason to exclude it off the bat, it could be RSTS as well. If I had to guess based solely on the media, I'd think that RK05 suggests RT-11 or RSX, and RK07s suggest RSX or RSTS. It's not that you couldn't use RT-11 with RK07 drives; it's that the drives were so large (28MB) and so expensive that it was a not-so-common configuration. > Is there anyone in or near NYC that can handle these? If you can get the > files to a tape via COPY, I think we can take it from there. I'm in Ohio and my RKV11D is in Canada. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 2 15:59:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Help Needed with NT 4 Password In-Reply-To: <000701c26a4f$ac8a2350$6e010240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Keys wrote: > Just purchased a digital Prioris HX 5133DP server at a auction and it is > password protected. It powers up ok and then ask for the admin password. > Does anyone know a work around to get into this system? Can put a new > version of NT 4 on top of it? I do have a legal CD that I got last year that > could install on top if I will not lose the drivers that are already on the > machine. Thanks in advance for any help. I guess NT is just about 10 years old now, isn't it? Sick. Anyway, one way is to install the drive in an NT server where you know the admin password, and then access the "protected" drive from there. Next, you should be able to find info on the web that tells you how to crack NT passwords. You'll be able to get at the password file of the "protected" drive and then find out the admin password. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Wed Oct 2 16:02:00 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: First Indirect Addressing? In-Reply-To: <190352238221.20021002125803@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <000301c26a56$dd67e320$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Ok, I've got a friend in academia who wants to know: > > What was the first computer to support indirect addressing? > I've taken this to be specifically memory indirect and not the use of index registers (or "B-lines" - invented in 1949). I would think, perhaps, that memory indirect was not really feasable until the use of core memory. Some datum points from manuals found on web. IBM704 (mid '50s) didn't GE 625/635 (mid 60's) did PDP8 (?) did CDC160A (1961) did The Manchester Mark 1 (1947-9) had an indirect jump (as well as index registers) ... this probably takes the prize, then. Haven't yet found a definitive answer as far as data access is concerned > While I expect no definite answer (as if I had asked "what is the first > computer" :-), it should be an interesting discussion. > Andy From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Oct 2 16:07:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Help Needed with NT 4 Password In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10/02/02, Sellam Ismail scribbled: > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Keys wrote: > > > Just purchased a digital Prioris HX 5133DP server at a auction and it is > > password protected. It powers up ok and then ask for the admin password. > > Does anyone know a work around to get into this system? Can put a new > > version of NT 4 on top of it? I do have a legal CD that I got last year that > > could install on top if I will not lose the drivers that are already on the > > machine. Thanks in advance for any help. > > I guess NT is just about 10 years old now, isn't it? Sick. > > Anyway, one way is to install the drive in an NT server where you know > the admin password, and then access the "protected" drive from there. > > Next, you should be able to find info on the web that tells you how to > crack NT passwords. You'll be able to get at the password file of the > "protected" drive and then find out the admin password. > I had the same problem, when I picked up a Dec Prioris HX 5100 MP/2. It had NT 3.51 on it. Here's a link I have... http://www.nthelp.com/40/domain.htm ...I also found this one... http://is-it-true,org/nt/atips/atips262.shtml -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 2 16:09:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: RK05 or RK07 In-Reply-To: "Chris Muller" "RK05 or RK07" (Oct 2, 13:55) References: <002201c26a3c$e5dd68f0$6401a8c0@CMHPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <10210022212.ZM22971@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 2, 13:55, Chris Muller wrote: > > I've been asked to try to get some data (to CD) from some number of RK05 > and/or RK07 packs. I have an old 11/73 floating around, but I believe the > RK's were only for Unibus, so the drives alone wouldn't help me. My contact > is unaware of the O/S, but I resume its got to be RT or RSX. (?) The QBus equivalent of an RK11 is an RKV11-D, which is a single quad board, controlling up to eight RK05's. They were moderately common on larger 11/03 and some 11/23 systems. The RK06 and RK07 use an RK611 controller, which is a large multi-board unit occupying two system units, usually in an expansion box. There's no QBus equivalent that I know of. Emulex did make QBus boards that emulated an RK611, or more accurately, emulated the whole RK711 subsystem using a QBus SC02 controller and an SMD drive, but you couldn't connect a real RK06/7 to one of those. The OS could be RT or RSX, possibly RSTS or something more unusual like MUMPS. Even 7th Edition Unix has an RK driver. I think RT-11 or RSX-11 would be most likely, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Oct 2 16:11:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: First Indirect Addressing? References: <190352238221.20021002125803@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3D9B600A.693BF2B0@gifford.co.uk> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Ok, I've got a friend in academia who wants to know: > > What was the first computer to support indirect addressing? I was thinking about the LGP-30, as used by Mel, the Real Programmer. Did that have indirect addressing, or was it indexed? Mel wouldn't have used either of those new-fangled inventions, of course. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Oct 2 16:26:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: First Indirect Addressing? In-Reply-To: <3D9B600A.693BF2B0@gifford.co.uk> References: <190352238221.20021002125803@subatomix.com> <3D9B600A.693BF2B0@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3684.4.20.168.172.1033594052.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I was thinking about the LGP-30, as used by Mel, the Real Programmer. > Did that have indirect addressing, or was it indexed? I'm not sure about the LGP-30, but according to the story, the RPC-4000 did have indexing. > Mel wouldn't have > used either of those new-fangled inventions, of course. Are you sure you grok the story? The story claims that Mel used indexing. In general, Mel would have used any available feature of the machine when it helped him improve his program. From martinm at allwest.net Wed Oct 2 16:43:00 2002 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Help Needed with NT 4 Password References: <000701c26a4f$ac8a2350$6e010240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <005701c26a5d$c31a2ad0$0101a8c0@computerroom2> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 2:09 PM Subject: Help Needed with NT 4 Password > Just purchased a digital Prioris HX 5133DP server at a auction and it is > password protected. It powers up ok and then ask for the admin password. > Does anyone know a work around to get into this system? Can put a new > version of NT 4 on top of it? I do have a legal CD that I got last year that > could install on top if I will not lose the drivers that are already on the > machine. Thanks in advance for any help. > > I used this: http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/bootdisk.html a while back to change an administrator's password - worked well. Boot from the floppy and and change the password. Martin From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 2 17:08:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: RK05 or RK07 In-Reply-To: <10210022212.ZM22971@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20021002220944.66876.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 2, 13:55, Chris Muller wrote: > > > > I've been asked to try to get some data (to CD) from some number of > > RK05 and/or RK07 packs... > > The QBus equivalent of an RK11 is an RKV11-D, which is a single quad > board, controlling up to eight RK05's. They were moderately common on > larger 11/03 and some 11/23 systems. Umm... _my_ RKV11D is a quad-slot box. There's a dual-height card that sits on the Qbus with a pair of 40-pin cables that go to a small enclosure that is mostly filled with an RK11D. Another set of 40-pin cables goes from that to a short dual-height paddle card that goes in the first drive. Is there more than one variant of the RKV11D? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Oct 2 17:37:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: First Indirect Addressing? In-Reply-To: <3684.4.20.168.172.1033594052.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <190352238221.20021002125803@subatomix.com> <3D9B600A.693BF2B0@gifford.co.uk> <3684.4.20.168.172.1033594052.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <4028.4.20.168.172.1033598290.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: > The story claims that Mel used indexing. OK, correcting myself, the story said that he did indexing by modifying an instruction rather than using the hardware indexing feature. But presumably he did this because it was more efficient in the cited example. In any cases where using the hardware indexing feature was more efficient, he would have used it. The point of the story is not "Mel's too old and set in his ways to use new features." The point is "Mel is an expert on every aspect of the machine, and knows the best techniques for using it." From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 2 17:54:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I guess NT is just about 10 years old now, isn't it? Sick. MICROS~1 was demo'ing NT in 1991, right before announcing Windoze 3.10. The "dryrot logo" (which MICROS~1 calls the "flying windows logo" (in spite of pieces falling off of the left side) was introduced at the Microsoft Professional Developers Conference in August 1991 (along with Windoze 3.10). MICROS~1 didn't care that NONE of the developers, from whom they expected enthusiastic response, liked it. Might I formally propose that when we get to 2005, we revise the charter of this list to be 11 years? and in 2006, 12 years in 2007, 13 years . . . acceptable age = current year - 1994 'cause when Windoze 95 becomes on topic, it just might not be fun anymore. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Oct 2 18:20:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: Tossing ICs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm fixing to toss 9 NEC D80C35C CPUs unless someone wants them for the cost of mailing. --John From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 2 18:21:43 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: RK05 or RK07 In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: RK05 or RK07" (Oct 2, 15:09) References: <20021002220944.66876.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10210030024.ZM23075@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 2, 15:09, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > > The QBus equivalent of an RK11 is an RKV11-D, which is a single quad > > board, controlling up to eight RK05's. They were moderately common on > > larger 11/03 and some 11/23 systems. > > Umm... _my_ RKV11D is a quad-slot box. There's a dual-height card > that sits on the Qbus with a pair of 40-pin cables that go to a > small enclosure that is mostly filled with an RK11D. Another set > of 40-pin cables goes from that to a short dual-height paddle card > that goes in the first drive. > > Is there more than one variant of the RKV11D? No, you're right -- I don't know what I was thinking of there. An RKV11-D is basically an RK11-D with a QBus interface. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Oct 2 18:26:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at Oct 02, 2002 03:55:51 PM Message-ID: <200210022327.g92NRWB11843@shell1.aracnet.com> > Might I formally propose that when we get to 2005, we revise the charter > of this list to be 11 years? > and in 2006, 12 years > in 2007, 13 years . . . > > acceptable age = current year - 1994 > > > 'cause when Windoze 95 becomes on topic, it just might not be fun anymore. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com The only problem is then you block stuff that falls under the non-Windows/"Really Cool Tech" catagories. I'd say retain the 10 year rule and just state that an exception to that rule is that Microsoft OS's newer than Windows 3.11 & x86 PC's with PCI slots are off-topic. Zane From jingber at ix.netcom.com Wed Oct 2 18:35:01 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: What's wrong with this picture? Message-ID: <1033515264.8470.3.camel@supermicro> It's been a long day. This was good for a laugh: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1772937615 Jeffrey H. Ingber (jingber@ix.netcom.com) From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 2 18:47:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <200210022327.g92NRWB11843@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > The only problem is then you block stuff that falls under the > non-Windows/"Really Cool Tech" catagories. I'd say retain the 10 year > rule and just state that an exception to that rule is that Microsoft > OS's newer than Windows 3.11 & x86 PC's with PCI slots are off-topic. Ah, but then you exclude all the weird x86 386/486 hybrid boards with PCI busses ;) -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 2 18:49:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: What's wrong with this picture? In-Reply-To: <1033515264.8470.3.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: On 1 Oct 2002, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > It's been a long day. This was good for a laugh: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1772937615 Pfft... I needed that ;) Hey, it even has an UPS card and a light pen! :) -Toth From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Oct 2 18:51:01 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: What's wrong with this picture? In-Reply-To: <1033515264.8470.3.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021002194958.042a56f0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Hey, somebody squished a cube and painted it white! :-) On a slightly more serious note, does the description mean it's running OpenStep? -- Tony At 07:34 PM 10/1/2002 -0400, you wrote: >It's been a long day. This was good for a laugh: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1772937615 > >Jeffrey H. Ingber (jingber@ix.netcom.com) From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 2 18:53:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > The only problem is then you block stuff that falls under the > > non-Windows/"Really Cool Tech" catagories. I'd say retain the 10 year > > rule and just state that an exception to that rule is that Microsoft > > OS's newer than Windows 3.11 & x86 PC's with PCI slots are off-topic. > > Ah, but then you exclude all the weird x86 386/486 hybrid boards with PCI > busses ;) And that's a bad thing? -Pat -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Oct 2 18:55:00 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: 10 years References: <200210022327.g92NRWB11843@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <013001c26a6f$2fcd1a00$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 8:57 AM Subject: Re: 10 years > > Might I formally propose that when we get to 2005, we revise the charter > > of this list to be 11 years? > > and in 2006, 12 years > > in 2007, 13 years . . . > > > > acceptable age = current year - 1994 > > > > > > 'cause when Windoze 95 becomes on topic, it just might not be fun anymore. > > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > The only problem is then you block stuff that falls under the > non-Windows/"Really Cool Tech" catagories. I'd say retain the 10 year rule > and just state that an exception to that rule is that Microsoft OS's newer > than Windows 3.11 & x86 PC's with PCI slots are off-topic. I feel I must make a case that a 'classic' Win95 system should be on topic at the 10 year point. I still give my kids 486Dx's with VESA video and 95 to play games on and even do a bit of net surfing, play music cd's etc on stuff that most people consider beyond obsolete. It's worth noting that some classic games will run in a dos box on win95 and not on Win XP or ME. Some of the purists might consider ANYTHING MS offtopic under the same criteria, ie it was made by the Gates of Hell. Whilst I sympathise with the sentiments about Billie boy's software, I suppose we must maintain a timeline of systems and software, including, at the appropriate times, Win9x, NT and whatever comes after it. Remember that 30 years from now, when we have our 20Ghz pc's embedded in our forebrains and live video feeds to our optic nerves with 100mbps wireless connections to the internet, that a quaint P4-2Ghz with XP Pro and a 17" tube monitor might be a unique antique system.."You mean you had to TYPE stuff? And READ the results on a SCREEN? and you needed CABLES? WTH is a MODEM? Wow talk about primitive.... Uh, what's a picture tube? Uh, what's a Blue Screen of Death? Bill who?" Food for thought? cheers Geoff in Oz > > Zane > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Oct 2 19:02:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: What's wrong with this picture? In-Reply-To: <1033515264.8470.3.camel@supermicro> from "Jeffrey H. Ingber" at Oct 01, 2002 07:34:16 PM Message-ID: <200210030002.g9302xT13645@shell1.aracnet.com> > It's been a long day. This was good for a laugh: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1772937615 > > Jeffrey H. Ingber (jingber@ix.netcom.com) Main thing I see with it is that the seller probably has no idea how little it's actually worth.... Either that or we don't. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Oct 2 19:04:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: What's wrong with this picture? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Eros" at Oct 02, 2002 07:50:54 PM Message-ID: <200210030004.g9304KP13691@shell1.aracnet.com> > On a slightly more serious note, does the description mean it's running > OpenStep? > > -- Tony Nope, NeXTStep 3.3. For OPENSTEP you need to be running V4.x. Of course V4.2 was *also* shipped as "Prelude to Rhapsody". Zane From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 2 19:43:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <013001c26a6f$2fcd1a00$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote: > maintain a timeline of systems and software, including, at the appropriate > times, Win9x, NT and whatever comes > after it. Remember that 30 years from now, when we have our 20Ghz pc's I can accept that viewpoint, except, ... it scares me to think that someday we might consider THESE to be the "good old days"! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 2 19:45:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: First Indirect Addressing? Message-ID: Well I'm not sure as to indexing, but I know that the entire memory on the LGP-30 is the drum.. nothing else, well at least not programmable anyway.. and no, I/O devices aren't memory! heh _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From jss at subatomix.com Wed Oct 2 19:49:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <013001c26a6f$2fcd1a00$0300a8c0@geoff> References: <200210022327.g92NRWB11843@shell1.aracnet.com> <013001c26a6f$2fcd1a00$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <815978286.20021002194732@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote: > From: "Zane H. Healy" > > > 'cause when Windoze 95 becomes on topic, it just might not be fun > > > anymore. > > > > The only problem is then you block stuff that falls under the > > non-Windows/"Really Cool Tech" catagories. I'd say retain the 10 year > > rule and just state that an exception to that rule is that Microsoft > > OS's newer than Windows 3.11 & x86 PC's with PCI slots are off-topic. > > I suppose we must maintain a timeline of systems and software, including, > at the appropriate times, Win9x, NT and whatever comes after it. Remember > that 30 years from now ... a quaint P4-2Ghz with XP Pro and a 17" tube > monitor might be a unique antique system. Would anyone object to adding an official 'cool factor clause' to the 10-year rule? We already sorta have that now, where a newer computer (e.g. mid-90s SGI MIPS) has sufficient cool factor that we're ok with it. All we need is a concept of negative cool factor, so that some computers (e.g. Packard Bell PC) might never be on-topic. In reality, this isn't any more ambiguous than what we already have. The other option would be to develop some sort of unit for classicity and set a threshold above which a machine is on-topic. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jwest at imail.kwcorp.com Wed Oct 2 19:56:00 2002 From: jwest at imail.kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available Message-ID: <005701c26a0f$2b83b220$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com Wed Oct 2 19:57:41 2002 From: kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469BD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3D9AE9B7.9C9334C9@reeltapetransfer.com> I have user guide to 7980A. I could fax the config pages if you'd like. Keven Miller kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com From robert_little_2000 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 2 19:59:20 2002 From: robert_little_2000 at yahoo.com (Robert Little) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: 5150 & 720 KB FD In-Reply-To: <20021002071325.99317.35888.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20021002130633.61561.qmail@web20603.mail.yahoo.com> Think I found the problems.... Machine #2 (the one I'm rebuilding) had its DIP's set for a single drive. After correcting that, still failed to work, so decided to check out the 720 itself... AH HA! Of course it wouldn't work. It was a dead drive. As for the purist out there who shudder at the thought of adding later components to such a classic, I should mention that I'm an astronomer. I don't have the systems as collectibles, I use them. Yup, that's right... when you're on a budget, you have to make everything work. This ol' PC is basically just going to serve as a real time clock. With CGA monitors they are good for that... Better that then have it go to the landfill (as is too often the case...) Robert Little Astronomer Talcott Mountain Science Center __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Oct 2 20:00:54 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469BD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469BD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <200210020630010536.A11A5529@192.168.42.129> Good day, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 02-Oct-02 at 02:50 Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >Hey all, > >Does anyone have info on this beastie? I'm trying to convince it to be >nice to me and lock itself to 1600bpi, but it doesn't wanna play... :( I had an 88170 at one time. They're pretty much the same as the 7980. It will automatically sense the density of the tape you load, and will lock itself to said density, and it should certainly be able to handle all three of the standards (800, 1600, 6250). Bear in mind that you'll need some fairly specialized (and expensive -- in the $300 region) software if you want to use that drive on any sort of PC. Good hunting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From stefan at softhome.net Wed Oct 2 20:02:33 2002 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:42 2005 Subject: For swap/sale : Digital LAX34-JL Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021002211029.028f0898@pop.softhome.net> This is a set of special character keys. Probably for the LA34 DECwriter IV. See http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/LAX34/ for the only related pic I could find. 100% new, I only opened the box to see what was in it. Willing to swap or sell it. yours, Stefan. From stefan at softhome.net Wed Oct 2 20:04:07 2002 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Digital T2011 Board Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021002211653.02953fd8@pop.softhome.net> Anybody interested in this board ? Its a CPU board, and I even looked it up, but I forgot. So if anyone wants anymore info let me know. Stefan. From f.heite at hccnet.nl Wed Oct 2 20:05:41 2002 From: f.heite at hccnet.nl (Freek Heite) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Looking for CP/M-86 for Compudata Tulip System I Message-ID: <200210021955.VAA28888@smtp.hccnet.nl> Hello, Someone out there who has the CP/M-86 software for the Dutch-made Compudata Tulip System I? It's an 8086-machine that is hardly IBM-compatible (as it was introduced before the IBM PC). The BIOS is completely different from IBM-PC-standards. Under Tulip's MS-DOS (which was also available when buying this machine) it has a whopping TPA of about 900 KB, as the video RAM is somewhere at the top of the 1 megabyte memory, and there are no expansion cards with their own BIOSses. The 5,25 inch diskettes could store ca. 800 KB each. Thanks, Freek Heite From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 2 20:07:14 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: VCF Gazette Volume 1 Issue 3 Message-ID: VCF Gazette Volume 1, Issue 3 A Newsletter for the Vintage Computer Festival October 1, 2002 Hello Vintage Computer Fans! The VCF Gazette is back again with more news about the Vintage Computer Festival. In this issue: VCF 5.0 Venue Change VCF 5.0 General Information VCF 5.0 Special Events VCF Open House Update Latest Additions to the VCF Archives VCF 5.0 Venue Change -------------------- The VCF is pleased to announce that this year's Vintage Computer Festival is being sponsored by the Computer History Museum. This sponsorship has enabled the VCF to be held at the Moffett Training & Conference Center at the Moffett Federal Airfield in Mountain View, California. The move has several advantages, including tighter integration with the tours to the Computer History Museum's Visible Storage exhibit area. Tours of the Air & Space Museum will also be available. The Computer History Museum has always shown support for the VCF in the past by exhibiting terrific artifacts from their collection in the VCF Exhibit. We greatly appreciate this new level of commitment to and support of the Vintage Computer Festival! VCF 5.0 General Information --------------------------- Vintage Computer Festival 5.0 is scheduled for October 26th and 27th. Doors open at 9:00AM each day, with talks beginning at 10:00AM and running until 2:00PM. The Exhibit and Marketplace is open from 2:00PM until 6:00PM each day. The admission to VCF 5.0 is $10 per person per day for full access to Speakers, the Exhibition and the Marketplace, or $4 per person per day for Exhibition and Marketplace access only. Kids 17 and under are admitted free of charge, and parking is free. VCF 5.0 is being held at the Moffett Training & Conference Center at Moffett Federal Airfield in Mountain View, California. Check the VCF 5.0 website for more details and directions. LODGING The VCF has reserved a room block at the County Inn in Mountain View, California, which is a short drive or walk to Moffett Field. The room rate is $69 per night for single or double occupany. Reservation information as well as information on other area hotels can be found on the VCF 5.0 Lodging page: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/lodging.php EXHIBITORS If you wanted to an exhibit a computer from your collection, there is still time to register. To register as an exhibitor, please go to: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/exhibit.php VENDORS The VCF still has vendor booths available. The VCF Marketplace is the best place to sell your old computer items to a targeted market. You may also sell items on consignment and leave the hassle to us. For more information on the VCF Marketplace and consignment sales, please visit: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/vendor.php VCF 5.0 BBS The VCF has just launched a bulletin board system on the VCF 5.0 website to enable attendees to communicate with each other before the event to arrange trades, form carpools, and discuss the VCF in general. The BBS can be accessed here: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/bbs.php FOREIGN NATIONALS Foreign nationals can disregard previous announcements about the requirement to register in advance in order to be allowed access to Moffett Federal Airfield. The confusion with the entry procedures was caused by a miscommunication. Foreign nationals will be allowed onto the base just as any United States citizen, but as is required for all persons entering the base, valid identification must be presented at the main gate. We sincerely apologize for the confusion. SPONSORS The Vintage Computer Festival gratefully thanks its sponsors, the Computer History Museum and the Alameda County Computer Resource Center. Computer History Museum http://www.computerhistory.org Alameda County Computer Resource Center http://www.accrc.org VCF 5.0 Special Events ---------------------- We are adding new features to the VCF this year to increase attendee participation. Along with the Nerd Trivia Challenge, the popular quiz game that tests your computer history knowledge, the VCF will feature the Retro-Code vintage computer coding challenge in which attendees will write games on old home computers within a limited time period at the VCF. Information on the Nerd Trivia Challenge can be found here: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/ntc.php Information about the Retro-Code challenge is here: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/retrocode.php COMPUTER HISTORY MUSEUM TOURS Tours of the Computer History Museum will be running throughout the exhibition hours of the VCF. Those that have not yet had the opportunity to visit the Computer History Museum's Visible Storage exhibits will certainly want to take advantage of this. For more information about the Computer History Museum, please visit their website at: http://www.computerhistory.org/ DIGIBARN EXCURSION The DigiBarn is a computer museum in a country setting (literally housed in a barn in the Santa Cruz Mountains). Bruce Damer, the curator of the DigiBarn, will be heading the excursion. A caravan will leave the VCF at approximately 2:30pm on Sunday and return before the close of VCF 5.0. More information about the DigiBarn can be found on their website: http://www.digibarn.com/ APL BAY AREA USERS' GROUP MEETING The VCF is hosting a meeting of the APL Bay Area Users' Group (The Northern California SIGAPL of the ACM) at VCF 5.0 in conjunction with the lecture that will be given by Zbigniew Stachniak. Zbigniew will be discussing an early portable personal computer, the MCM/70, which ran APL. The meeting will take place at 3:00pm on Saturday, October 26, in the speaker hall. For more information on the APL BAUG, visit their website: http://www.acm.org/sigapl Stay tuned for more VCF event updates! VCF Open House Update --------------------- The first VCF Open House is still in the works. We had promised to have the VCF Archives ready for display by now but progress has been slower than hoped. Still, progress is being made. Most of the material needed to build out the floor has been acquired. Construction on the floor will begin in October. Once it's complete, artifacts will be selected and exhibits will be assembled throughout the Fall, with an anticipated museum opening sometime in late November or early December. Again, the VCF would like to thank the Alameda County Computer Resource Center for generously providing space for the VCF to store our archives. The Alameda County Computer Resource Center is the largest non-profit computer recycling operation on the west coast of the United States. You may visit them on the web at: http://www.accrc.org/ Better yet, visit them in person and volunteer your time to help put computers into the hands of deserving kids, schools and organizations world-wide. Volunteering details can be found the ACCRC website. Latest Additions to the VCF Archives ------------------------------------ The VCF has continued to acquire new (or rather "old") artifacts since our last update. One of the most exciting is our acquisition of a Digital Computer Controls D-116 minicomputer. The DCC D-116 is roughly a clone of the Data General Nova 830. We have also acquired a Linus WriteTop. The Linus WriteTop was the first pen-based computer, manufactured in 1986. The computer did not meet with much success, mainly because the hand-writing recognition was not perfect (but then, it still isn't 16 years later ;) That wraps it up for this issue of the VCF Gazette! Until next time... Best regards, Sellam Ismail Producer Vintage Computer Festival http://www.vintage.org/ The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and their history. The VCF Gazette goes out to anyone who subscribed to the VCF mailing list, and is intended to keep those interested in the VCF informed of the latest VCF events and happenings. The VCF Gazette is guaranteed to be published in a somewhat irregular manner, though we will try to maintain a quarterly schedule. If you would like to be removed from the VCF mailing list, and therefore not receive any more issues of the VCF Gazette, visit the following web page: http://www.vintage.org/remove.php ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From phil at ultimate.com Wed Oct 2 20:08:50 2002 From: phil at ultimate.com (Phil Budne) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: First Indirect Addressing? Message-ID: <200210022241.g92Mflrp003959@ultimate.com> >From: "Andy Holt" > IBM704 (mid '50s) didn't The IBM709, which succeeded the 704 did; http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/grosch.html The 709 succeeded the 704, adding overlapped i/o, indirect addressing, and decimal instructions. The 7090 was a 709 with transistor, rather than vacuum-tube, logic. http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/glossary_7.html The IBM 709 Data Processing System was introduced in January 1957. > PDP8 (?) did The first DEC computer, the PDP-1 (designed 1959) did as well. http://www.utc.edu/~jdumas/cs460/vonnarch.htm mentions the 709 and no others. From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Oct 2 20:11:08 2002 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: VCF Gazette Volume 1 Issue 3 Message-ID: <01KN77N828F68WXPAT@cc.usu.edu> > Vintage Computer Festival 5.0 is scheduled for October 26th and 27th. > Doors open at 9:00AM each day, with talks beginning at 10:00AM and > running until 2:00PM. The Exhibit and Marketplace is open from 2:00PM > until 6:00PM each day. Argh! It's up against the Edwards AFB air show. Moral dilemma... -- Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 2 20:12:42 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: <005701c26a0f$2b83b220$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Jay West wrote: > Seagate ST12400N, definitely known to be working. I believe it's a 1gb Actually, it's 2G: ST - seagate 1 - 3.5" 2400 - 2.4GB N - Narrow scsi A decent drive (well, better than the 5.25" narrow-scsi types) for replacing older smaller/failed SCSI drives. -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Oct 2 20:18:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Oct 02, 2002 07:47:32 PM Message-ID: <200210030119.g931Jni17129@shell1.aracnet.com> > Would anyone object to adding an official 'cool factor clause' to the > 10-year rule? We already sorta have that now, where a newer computer (e.g. > mid-90s SGI MIPS) has sufficient cool factor that we're ok with it. All we > need is a concept of negative cool factor, so that some computers (e.g. > Packard Bell PC) might never be on-topic. > > In reality, this isn't any more ambiguous than what we already have. The > other option would be to develop some sort of unit for classicity and set a > threshold above which a machine is on-topic. > > Jeffrey Sharp I for one obviously don't have a problem with having an official 'cool factor clause'. After all, then my DEC PWS 433au running OpenVMS would be ontopic, as would systems such as BeBox's and the like. I think as a whole, systems that aren't x86 based, or Mac's that are less than 10 years old have been considered to have suffecient 'coolness factor'. Besides, about all that seems to cover is UNIX workstations, and OpenVMS systems. Also, I think 'custom built' x86 systems that have been specifically built to emulate older hardware, such as a PDP-10 are almost ontopic. Zane From jss at subatomix.com Wed Oct 2 20:38:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Digital T2011 Board In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021002211653.02953fd8@pop.softhome.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021002211653.02953fd8@pop.softhome.net> Message-ID: <978902601.20021002203616@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, Stefan wrote: > I forgot Some file I have says: : T2011 - 6310 - 6300 CPU / KA62B CPU XMI cpu module -- Jeffrey Sharp From archer at topnow.com Wed Oct 2 20:42:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years References: <200210022327.g92NRWB11843@shell1.aracnet.com> <013001c26a6f$2fcd1a00$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <3D9BA0C8.C1D39689@topnow.com> Geoff Roberts wrote: [snip] > Uh, what's a Blue Screen of Death? Bill who?" That's an uplifting thought. :) > > Food for thought? > > cheers > > Geoff in Oz > > > > > Zane > > > > From archer at topnow.com Wed Oct 2 20:52:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years References: Message-ID: <3D9BA313.37840EBD@topnow.com> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I guess NT is just about 10 years old now, isn't it? Sick. > > MICROS~1 was demo'ing NT in 1991, right before announcing Windoze 3.10. > The "dryrot logo" (which MICROS~1 calls the "flying windows logo" (in > spite of pieces falling off of the left side) was introduced at the > Microsoft Professional Developers Conference in August 1991 (along with > Windoze 3.10). MICROS~1 didn't care that NONE of the developers, from > whom they expected enthusiastic response, liked it. > > Might I formally propose that when we get to 2005, we revise the charter > of this list to be 11 years? > and in 2006, 12 years > in 2007, 13 years . . . > > acceptable age = current year - 1994 > > 'cause when Windoze 95 becomes on topic, it just might not be fun anymore. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com To be honest, I don't think such a measure is necessary. Among geeks, MickySoft OS'es are decidedly un-sexy, and commodity PCs are (except for the truly oddball ones) boring to a life-threatening degree. :) A thread about THE generic OS on THE generic platform would probably be good for two or three responses, and then would die the ignominious death that it so deserved. :) "The economy isn't at 'The Grapes of Wrath' stage yet. It's only up to 'The Raisins of Regret", or perhaps the "Prunes of Peevishness". :) -- Ross From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 2 20:54:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > The only problem is then you block stuff that falls under the > > > non-Windows/"Really Cool Tech" catagories. I'd say retain the 10 > > > year rule and just state that an exception to that rule is that > > > Microsoft OS's newer than Windows 3.11 & x86 PC's with PCI slots are > > > off-topic. > > > > Ah, but then you exclude all the weird x86 386/486 hybrid boards with > > PCI busses ;) > > And that's a bad thing? Well, maybe for the folks who find it both fun and a challenge to make em do stuff they were never designed to do... -Toth From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Oct 2 20:55:34 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Digital T2011 Board References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021002211653.02953fd8@pop.softhome.net> <978902601.20021002203616@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <007d01c26a7f$d0ecb5c0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Digital T2011 Board > On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, Stefan wrote: > > I forgot > > Some file I have says: > : T2011 - 6310 - 6300 CPU / KA62B CPU XMI cpu module Yes, 300 Series cpu for a VAX 6000 4.7VUP. (1 VUP~=1 MIPS) Geoff in Oz From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 2 20:58:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Jay West wrote: > > > Seagate ST12400N, definitely known to be working. I believe it's a 1gb > > Actually, it's 2G: > > ST - seagate > 1 - 3.5" > 2400 - 2.4GB > N - Narrow scsi 3.5" FH too, not one of the later 3.5" HH drives. -Toth From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 2 21:13:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Jay West wrote: > > > > > Seagate ST12400N, definitely known to be working. I believe it's a 1gb > > > > Actually, it's 2G: > > > > ST - seagate > > 1 - 3.5" > > 2400 - 2.4GB > > N - Narrow scsi > > 3.5" FH too, not one of the later 3.5" HH drives. If you mean 1.6", then yes -- I've got a couple of these drives. I've always heard 1.6" called half height and 1" called "1/3 height". What's the proper terminology? -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Oct 2 21:24:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: First Indirect Addressing? References: Message-ID: <3D9BAAB5.D4124B33@compsys.to> >Will Jennings wrote: > Well I'm not sure as to indexing, but I know that the entire memory on the > LGP-30 is the drum.. nothing else, well at least not programmable anyway.. > and no, I/O devices aren't memory! heh Jerome Fine replies: When I first saw this line, I did not thing of a drum system as having indirect addressing. However, if this qualifies, then the IBM 650 system that must have been produced prior to 1960 (I used one in 1960) also had a drum to hold both instructions and data. Each IBM 650 instruction was 10 decimal digits - the IBM 650 was NOT a binary computer. The first 2 decimal digits were the op code. the next 4 decimal digits were the address of the operand. The last 4 decimal digits were the ADDRESS of the next instruction on the drum. The assembler program to convert the source language into machine language was called SOAP - Symbolic Optimal Assembly Program. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Oct 2 21:29:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available References: Message-ID: <3D9BABDE.D4E4EA7D@compsys.to> >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > If you mean 1.6", then yes -- I've got a couple of these drives. I've > always heard 1.6" called half height and 1" called "1/3 height". What's > the proper terminology? Jerome Fine replies: VERY THIN! -); If you have any 5 1/4" FH ESDI drives, that must be about 20 lb. each (well maybe only 10 lb.), then anything less, especially when 2 of any drive can be held in one have is THIN and LIGHT. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 2 21:46:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: <3D9BABDE.D4E4EA7D@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > If you mean 1.6", then yes -- I've got a couple of these drives. I've > > always heard 1.6" called half height and 1" called "1/3 height". What's > > the proper terminology? > > Jerome Fine replies: > > VERY THIN! -); If you have any 5 1/4" FH ESDI drives, > that must be about 20 lb. each (well maybe only 10 lb.), then > anything less, especially when 2 of any drive can be held in > one have is THIN and LIGHT. Well, I have a pair of those in my VaxStation 3200... 5.25" FH drives are thin and light when compared with something like an RP07, of course.... -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Oct 2 21:48:15 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Mag Drums? Message-ID: Anyone know what this is? Litton Systems? http://home1.gte.net/~gslick/drum.jpg _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Oct 2 21:50:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <200210030119.g931Jni17129@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > I for one obviously don't have a problem with having an official 'cool > factor clause'. After all, then my DEC PWS 433au running OpenVMS would be > ontopic, as would systems such as BeBox's and the like. I do not see the point of anything official, as most of the posts are to the lawless CCTALK list anyway. I would actually like to see the "official" cutoff pushed out to 20 years, as 10 years just does not seem that long ago... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Oct 2 22:00:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <3D9BA313.37840EBD@topnow.com> Message-ID: <000701c26a89$1e789d00$6e7ba8c0@piii933> > Among geeks, MickySoft OS'es > are decidedly un-sexy, and commodity PCs are > (except for the truly oddball ones) boring to > a life-threatening degree. :) I dunno. I just booted up my 64K IBM PC with DOS 1.0 and I thought it was pretty cool. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Oct 2 22:05:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <200210030119.g931Jni17129@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: on 10/2/02 8:19 PM, Zane H. Healy at healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > I think as a whole, systems that aren't x86 based, or Mac's that are less > than 10 years old have been considered to have suffecient 'coolness factor'. Well, think about it this way. Five years ago, wasn't NeXT hardware considered classic or collectable or at least cool? Because five years ago, it didn't meet the 10 year rule. Am I right on that one? Didn't the '030 NeXT Cube come out in 1988? -- Owen Robertson From jrice54 at charter.net Wed Oct 2 22:15:05 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years References: Message-ID: <3D9BB72A.7010002@charter.net> The same with SGI Indy's. They have been discussed under the "not 10 years old but sufficently "geek cool" enough rule." I think the same would be true of other limited production machines, like Canon object.stations, Daystar Genesis MP's. James >Well, think about it this way. Five years ago, wasn't NeXT hardware >considered classic or collectable or at least cool? Because five years ago, >it didn't meet the 10 year rule. Am I right on that one? Didn't the '030 >NeXT Cube come out in 1988? > > > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From archer at topnow.com Wed Oct 2 22:20:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years References: <000701c26a89$1e789d00$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <3D9BB7BA.9EFA2E3F@topnow.com> "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > > > Among geeks, MickySoft OS'es > > are decidedly un-sexy, and commodity PCs are > > (except for the truly oddball ones) boring to > > a life-threatening degree. :) > > I dunno. I just booted up my 64K IBM PC with DOS 1.0 and I thought it > was pretty cool. Yeah, but DOS doesn't crash! :) -- Ross > > Erik S. Klein > www.vintage-computer.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 2 22:31:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Might I formally propose that when we get to 2005, we revise the charter > of this list to be 11 years? > and in 2006, 12 years > in 2007, 13 years . . . > > acceptable age = current year - 1994 > > > 'cause when Windoze 95 becomes on topic, it just might not be fun anymore. Fred's got a good point. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Oct 2 22:36:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available References: Message-ID: <3D9BBB68.C7E5AB1B@compsys.to> >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > Jerome Fine replies: > > VERY THIN! -); If you have any 5 1/4" FH ESDI drives, > > that must be about 20 lb. each (well maybe only 10 lb.), then > > anything less, especially when 2 of any drive can be held in > > one hand is THIN and LIGHT. > Well, I have a pair of those in my VaxStation 3200... 5.25" FH drives are > thin and light when compared with something like an RP07, of course.... Jerome Fine replies: And I have 3 FH 5 1/4" ESDI Hitachi DK515-78 600 MByte drives on the PDP-11/83 that I use. But that is where I draw the line as far as "production" hardware is concerned. I don't regard a 60 lb. RL02 drive as reasonable because of BOTH the size and the weight - aside from the fact that the capacity is only 10 MBytes. On the other hand, I hope to eventually switch from using those ESDI drives to a SCSI drive - an ST32550N drive with a host adapter on both the PDP-11 and the PC so I can move the same SCSI drive between the two systems and run RT-11 from the same drive either directly on the real PDP-11 hardware or on the PC under Ersatz-11. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Oct 2 22:43:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years References: Message-ID: <3D9BBCDF.6050305@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: > I do not see the point of anything official, as most of the posts are to the > lawless CCTALK list anyway. > > I would actually like to see the "official" cutoff pushed out to 20 > years, as 10 years just does not seem that long ago... The whole point of the 10 year limit was to to prevent the "Latest Golly-Gee Wizzbang computer from Netsoft-3456 cpu" from taking up readers bandwith with topics like "Why autostart programs don't work, if the powerbar is in the OFF position." A classic computer is a CLASSIC computer regardless of age as all computers were new sometime. While I like "front panel" beasts I like to know what is out there rather than the classic PC clone of today that may be worth keeping in the future. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Oct 2 22:56:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <3D9BBCDF.6050305@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > The whole point of the 10 year limit was to to prevent the > "Latest Golly-Gee Wizzbang computer from Netsoft-3456 cpu" > from taking up readers bandwith with topics like "Why autostart > programs don't work, if the powerbar is in the OFF position." > A classic computer is a CLASSIC computer regardless of age > as all computers were new sometime. While I like "front panel" > beasts I like to know what is out there rather than the classic > PC clone of today that may be worth keeping in the future. It was a reference to the whole "gettin' old" phase one goes thru from time to time. Sometimes 1992 seems like yesterday. To add to my thoughts, it certainly does not seem like the list has been around for so long. It feels like I jumped on just a little bit ago. What has it been? Three years? Four years? Five? Maybe I ought to go chill out with a beverage. I am getting old. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Oct 2 23:05:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Oct 02, 2002 11:57:35 PM Message-ID: <200210030406.g9346Je23064@shell1.aracnet.com> > To add to my thoughts, it certainly does not seem like the list has been > around for so long. It feels like I jumped on just a little bit ago. What > has it been? Three years? Four years? Five? Maybe I ought to go chill out > with a beverage. I am getting old. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org I hate to tell you, but I think you're right, you're getting old, but then so are the rest of us :^/ Pondering the age of the list is definitly scarry though. Come to think of it, I suspect I've been on here since mid '97. At least I no longer haul stuff home by the truckload (normally). Zane From donm at cts.com Wed Oct 2 23:52:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Jay West wrote: > > > Seagate ST12400N, definitely known to be working. I believe it's a 1gb > > Actually, it's 2G: > > ST - seagate > 1 - 3.5" > 2400 - 2.4GB > N - Narrow scsi In reality, it is a 3.5" half-high, SCSI-2 FAST of 2400MB capacity. Half-high being about 1.6" tall. - don > A decent drive (well, better than the 5.25" narrow-scsi types) for > replacing older smaller/failed SCSI drives. > > -- > "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is > completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" > -- Anonymous > http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > > > From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Oct 3 00:29:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: What's wrong with this picture? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021002194958.042a56f0@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <1033515264.8470.3.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <3D9B8F8C.15151.112373D@localhost> Actually there are Intel "white" Next's. Doubtfull they would be Pentium based tho. Lawrence > Hey, somebody squished a cube and painted it white! :-) > > On a slightly more serious note, does the description mean it's running > OpenStep? > > -- Tony > > At 07:34 PM 10/1/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >It's been a long day. This was good for a laugh: > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1772937615 > > > >Jeffrey H. Ingber (jingber@ix.netcom.com) > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Oct 3 00:39:01 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: What's wrong with this picture? In-Reply-To: <3D9B8F8C.15151.112373D@localhost> Message-ID: on 10/3/02 12:30 AM, Lawrence Walker at lgwalker@mts.net wrote: > Actually there are Intel "white" Next's. Doubtfull they would be Pentium > based tho. I have a NeXTstep 3.x CD that says it contains the black and white (NeXT and Intel) versions of the OS. So by 'Intel' does it mean PCs, or specialized Intel based hardware? I always thought it meant that it would run on 486 and higher PCs, but I haven't been able to get it to boot on any, which leads me to believe that it isn't for generic Intel hardware. Or maybe I need a boot floppy which I don't have. -- Owen Robertson From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Thu Oct 3 00:55:01 2002 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Digital Decserver 700-16 info requested Message-ID: Hi, I am the proud owner of 3 of these old (1991) terminal servers. DSRVW-YC. A01 Unfortunately, I have absoloutly no doco. I have been able to determine that the device is trying to TFTP a configuration file of some type. But I can not find any doco since Compaq desimated the Digital support sites. I believe that their logic was "is this PC related?" no - flush it. Does anybody on the list either (1) know anything or (2) know anybody who would know anything, about these boxes. I would *really* like to use one to put a couple of modems onto to use as a dial in service for my organisation. regards, Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021003/a5feb8d3/attachment.html From red at bears.org Thu Oct 3 01:23:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: What's wrong with this picture? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: > I have a NeXTstep 3.x CD that says it contains the black and white (NeXT > and Intel) versions of the OS. So by 'Intel' does it mean PCs, or > specialized Intel based hardware? I always thought it meant that it > would run on 486 and higher PCs, but I haven't been able to get it to > boot on any, which leads me to believe that it isn't for generic Intel > hardware. Or maybe I need a boot floppy which I don't have. It works on some subset of "generic" intel hardware. Basically you need a VGA card, a supported disk controller, an Intel 80486 CPU, 16 MB RAM. The CD is not bootable on intel; the two boot floppies are required. Canon sold the Object.station 41, which is essentially a generic i486 system, integrated specifically to run NEXTSTEP. ok r. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 3 01:25:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: 5150 & 720 KB FD In-Reply-To: <20021002130633.61561.qmail@web20603.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021002071325.99317.35888.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20021002130633.61561.qmail@web20603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43441.64.169.63.74.1033626367.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > As for the purist out there who shudder at the thought > of adding later components to such a classic, I should > mention that I'm an astronomer. I don't have the > systems as collectibles, I use them. Yup, that's > right... when you're on a budget, you have to make > everything work. This ol' PC is basically just going > to serve as a real time clock. And a real time clock need a 3.5-inch floppy drive because...? > With CGA monitors they are good for that... Better than an LED digital clock with four-inch tall red digits? From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Oct 3 01:27:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track In-Reply-To: "Bruce Lane"'s message of "Wed, 02 Oct 2002 06:30:01 -0700" References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469BD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <200210020630010536.A11A5529@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <200210030622.g936MuM2085325@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Bruce Lane" wrote: > I had an 88170 at one time. They're pretty much the same as > the 7980. It will automatically sense the density of the tape > you load, and will lock itself to said density, and it should > certainly be able to handle all three of the standards (800, > 1600, 6250). It's less than certain. The supported densities are determined by the installed board set. There are many 88780s out there that only do 1600 and 6250. Fewer that do 800 too. I have yet to run across one that only does 1600 but it's a possible configuration; HP sold that (w/HP-IB interface) as the 7979A. For 7980s, 1600 and 6250 are standard and 800 is an option. 7980A is HP-IB, 7980S is SCSI (single-ended). There's also an "XC" option which does in-the-drive compression on 6250BPI tapes; I think this option does not coexist with the 800BPI option. BTW, a couple months ago Sun had a version of their service manual for the 88780 up at: http://sunsolve.sun.com/data/800/800-3447/pdf/doc.pdf It's missing the figures though. > Bear in mind that you'll need some fairly specialized (and > expensive -- in the $300 region) software if you want to use > that drive on any sort of PC. Last time I noticed, FreeBSD and Linux were able to make use of a SCSI interface with an attached 88780. -Frank McConnell From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 3 01:27:18 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track In-Reply-To: <200210020630010536.A11A5529@192.168.42.129> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469BD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <200210020630010536.A11A5529@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <43443.64.169.63.74.1033626529.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >>Does anyone have info on this beastie? I'm trying to convince it to be >> nice to me and lock itself to 1600bpi, but it doesn't wanna play... :( Bruce Lane wrote: > I had an 88170 at one time. An 88780, probably. > Bear in mind that you'll need some fairly specialized (and expensive -- > in the $300 region) software if you want to use that drive on any sort > of PC. Someone should have warned me about that before I started using one with no special software whatsoever. :-) It responds to plain old SCSI tape commands, so any software that talks to SCSI tape drives should work. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Oct 3 01:55:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Digital T2011 Board Message-ID: >From: Geoff Roberts [mailto:geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au] >>From: "Jeffrey Sharp" >> On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, Stefan wrote: >> > I forgot >> >> Some file I have says: >> : T2011 - 6310 - 6300 CPU / KA62B CPU XMI cpu module > >Yes, 300 Series cpu for a VAX 6000 4.7VUP. (1 VUP~=1 MIPS) My list has: T2011-00 KA62A-A VAX 6000-200 CPU T2011-YA KA62B-A VAX 6000-300 CPU T2011-YB KA62A-B VAXserver 6000-200 CPU T2011-YC KA62B-B VAXserver 6000-300 CPU I don't have any manuals to hand to go and check. I do know that the KA62B was essentially a souped up KA62A, so the -YA designator seems entirely plausible. Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Oct 3 01:58:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Digital Decserver 700-16 info requested Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Doug Jackson [mailto:doug_jackson@citadel.com.au] Sent: 03 October 2002 06:58 To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: Digital Decserver 700-16 info requested Hi, >I am the proud owner of 3 of these old (1991) terminal servers. DSRVW-YC. A01 > Unfortunately, I have absoloutly no doco. I have been able to determine that the device is trying to TFTP Go to the dnpg website and enter "decserver 700" as a search term or follow this link: http://www.dnpg.com/search/search.cgi?m=any&ps=10&o=0&q=decserver+700 Antonio From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Oct 3 02:47:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? Message-ID: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> Why do now what you can put off until the last minute... A gentleman in Canada has some hardware that he's willing to give me (old computers in questionable state). Thing is, neither one of us is sure if there's any paperwork required to bring these boxes over the border. He's even willing to deliver, but not without any necessary paperwork. Can anybody fill me in on what would be required? Would working versus non-working make a difference? It's close to 15 years old if that matters... Thanks, --Steve. smj@spamfree.crash.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Oct 3 03:03:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Jay West wrote: > > > > > Seagate ST12400N, definitely known to be working. I believe it's a 1gb > > > > Actually, it's 2G: > > > > ST - seagate > > 1 - 3.5" > > 2400 - 2.4GB > > N - Narrow scsi > > In reality, it is a 3.5" half-high, SCSI-2 FAST of 2400MB capacity. > Half-high being about 1.6" tall. I've seen lots of companies call these drives full height, while floppy drives and such were considered half height. Maybe different folks refer to the height differently. The actual height of these drives should be right about 1.63". -Toth From hansp at aconit.org Thu Oct 3 03:09:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Mag Drums? References: Message-ID: <3D9BFB46.9040207@aconit.org> Glen Slick wrote: > Anyone know what this is? Litton Systems? > > http://home1.gte.net/~gslick/drum.jpg I would assume it is a mag drum unit ;-) Made, perhaps, by Litton? Drums, were the ancestors of disks, same basic principle of operation: read write head near moving surface of magnetic material. Drums were developed before disks, I suppose they were easier to construct. They typically have faster access times than disks (they were usually constructed with one head per track though moving head disks did exist). The superior storage density of disks cause dthem to displace drums in the 60's and 70's. Drums continued to be used for a time as backing store or fro VM systems. Interestingly (for some) there were machines built in the 50's whose main memory consisted of drums. On some of those those machines, each instruction would include the address of the next instruction to be executed so that program execution could be optimised. -- hbp From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 3 03:38:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Stuff on ebay Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469C4@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > > ROCKWELL's 6502 (100% 6800 code compatible) > > He probably runs windows XP on it as well, using it as a > firewall/intranet server for the house. > > "It is best to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to > open it and remove all doubt." Besides, wasn't the Rockwell chip the improved version of the original (MOS) 6502, called the 65C02? It had some nifty extra instructions and an extra addressing mode.. --fred From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 3 04:10:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469C5@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Thanks to all who responded, both on-list and off-list. Summary: While READING, the 7980S will always default to whatever it finds on the tape currently loaded. If no format can be found (? bulk- erased tape?) it will use the setting below. While WRITING, it will use the desity as set with the CONF 46 setting. So, to fix my problem I had to set CONF46 to 1600, rather than 6250, and it worked. :) Cheers, Fred From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 3 04:18:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Looking for CP/M-86 for Compudata Tulip System I Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC39@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Freek, Een hele oude vriend van me, die ik al zeker 15 jaar niet heb gezien, had er een. Die mensen verzamelden ook vanalles, en ze waren heel zuinig op de spullen. Ze zouden die machine plus aanverwanten nog best eens kunnen hebben. Via telefoonboek of 0800-8008 zou je hun telnr kunnen achterhalen; ik weet het niet meer: Roeland & Maarten Tuk Schoonoord [ik meen] 92 Voorhout, ZH Groets, Fred From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 3 04:25:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: Looking for CP/M-86 for Compudata Tulip System I Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC3C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> *sigh* Sorry people, wasn't awake when doing that. I redirected it offlist. *blush* --f From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 3 04:32:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC3E@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > Jerome Fine replied: > > But that is where I draw the line as far as "production" hardware > is concerned. I don't regard a 60 lb. RL02 drive as reasonable > because of BOTH the size and the weight - aside from the fact > that the capacity is only 10 MBytes. Yeah, but they are way cool, too, like the RK05's.... I truly wish I had the physical space to put up some racks with an 11/40, 11/34a and an 11/70 side-by-side -with- all the stuff that used to go with them... *sigh* --fred From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 3 04:42:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:43 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC3F@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > > Bear in mind that you'll need some fairly specialized (and > expensive -- > > in the $300 region) software if you want to use that drive > on any sort > > of PC. > > Someone should have warned me about that before I started > using one with no special software whatsoever. :-) > > It responds to plain old SCSI tape commands, so any software > that talks to SCSI tape drives should work. Yeah :) I wrote my own ASPI layer for both DOS and Win32, and developed a bunch of tools around them to handle the reading, writing and archiving of tapes of various sorts. Kinda nice, because I can read in magtapes, store them in a single formatted file, enter the info on the tape label, and then let it sit on my server, or email it around. Later, one can re-write a tape using that file. The drawback is: many tapes [worldwide] have decided to gather up and move themselves to Holland, to find their eternal piece in archived format. In other words... gawd, I still have a PILE of tapes to go.... Anyway. The toolkit runs under most UNIXes, too, so no problems there. The 7980S is actually connected to a MicroVAX 3100 running Ultrix, and that box is my fast-tape-reader. Nice! It responds fine, no extra stuff needed. Cheers, Fred From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Oct 3 05:06:01 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: OSI disk basic disk Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146EAB@BUSH02> Does anyone have an image of the OSI Disk BASIC disk? If not that disk any 'bootable' disk for any of the 6502 OSI Challenger, or compatible, machines. I've managed to replicate the OSI 610 disk interface and get it to read/write onto a DD 3.5" drive. Now I would like to try it out with some 'real' software. Ta much. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From hansp at aconit.org Thu Oct 3 06:06:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Info request : Tek 4052 Message-ID: <3D9C24DE.1030201@aconit.org> We are exhibiting a Tektronix 4052 computer and I am looking for some info on the beastie: Year of introduction Price at introduction Memory size Processor Clock frequency Tape capacity Tape speed Screen resolution The web seems somewhat reluctant to divulge this info and I'd appreciate your help. Regards, -- Hans B Pufal From jrice54 at charter.net Thu Oct 3 06:34:24 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: What's wrong with this picture? References: Message-ID: <3D9C2C45.6040502@charter.net> I'm running it on a Pentium 233 at work. You need the intel boot floppy, the first driver disk, the second driver disk and the additional driver disk all of which can be downloaded at Apple, a supported video and network card and a supported SCSI card even if you are installing on an IDE hard drive. NS3.3 won't install using a ATAPI CD-ROM, it must be installed using a SCSI drive. There is a beta IDE driver that is supposed to support installs with IDE CD-ROM,s but I've never got it to work. Also NS3.3 won't recognize partitions over 2.2gb without risk of filesystem corruption. NeXTstep 3.3 works with Matrox Millenium PCI video cards, NE2000 10BT NIC's and Adaptec SCSI cards (some models). I put my intel box together out of cast off junk that was cluttering up the workbench area. NeXT never produced any hardware that wasn't Motorola based, however the Canon line of object.stations were intel based. The 31 and 41 were 486DX4-100's and the 51 and 61 were Pentiums. James Owen Robertson wrote: >on 10/3/02 12:30 AM, Lawrence Walker at lgwalker@mts.net wrote: > > > >>Actually there are Intel "white" Next's. Doubtfull they would be Pentium >>based tho. >> >> > >I have a NeXTstep 3.x CD that says it contains the black and white (NeXT and >Intel) versions of the OS. So by 'Intel' does it mean PCs, or specialized >Intel based hardware? I always thought it meant that it would run on 486 and >higher PCs, but I haven't been able to get it to boot on any, which leads me >to believe that it isn't for generic Intel hardware. Or maybe I need a boot >floppy which I don't have. > > > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Oct 3 07:26:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years References: Message-ID: <3D9C375A.9000604@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: > It was a reference to the whole "gettin' old" phase one > goes thru from time to time. Sometimes 1992 seems like yesterday. For me 1982 seems like yesterday ( I got to use a real computer with punch cards and even a printer ). > To add to my thoughts, it certainly does not seem like the list has been > around for so long. It feels like I jumped on just a little bit ago. What > has it been? Three years? Four years? Five? Maybe I ought to go chill out > with a beverage. I am getting old. Maybie a better rule would be -- no computers advertised on e-bay unless known to classic. From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Oct 3 08:59:01 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: <3D9BABDE.D4E4EA7D@compsys.to> Message-ID: On 10/02/02, Jerome H. Fine scribbled: > >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > If you mean 1.6", then yes -- I've got a couple of these drives. I've > > always heard 1.6" called half height and 1" called "1/3 height". What's > > the proper terminology? > > Jerome Fine replies: > > VERY THIN! -); If you have any 5 1/4" FH ESDI drives, > that must be about 20 lb. each (well maybe only 10 lb.), then > anything less, especially when 2 of any drive can be held in > one have is THIN and LIGHT. > -- How about my Seagate 9 GB SCSI drive, that are the size of 2 CD-ROMs glue together? :) Got 3 of them. I also have a 2GB and a 600MB SCSI drive of the same size... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Oct 3 09:26:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC3E@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3D9C53A2.748AAD32@compsys.to> >"Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > > Jerome Fine replied: > > But that is where I draw the line as far as "production" hardware > > is concerned. I don't regard a 60 lb. RL02 drive as reasonable > > because of BOTH the size and the weight - aside from the fact > > that the capacity is only 10 MBytes. > Yeah, but they are way cool, too, like the RK05's.... I truly wish > I had the physical space to put up some racks with an 11/40, 11/34a > and an 11/70 side-by-side -with- all the stuff that used to go with > them... *sigh* Jerome Fine replies: I probably have the room, but not the inclination. I am really a software person - the hardware is just there to run the software - well mostly - my wife certainly would not agree when she she looks at the basement full of PDP-11 junk. As for using the RL02 and RK05 drives, while I have one RK05 drive at the moment and a borrowed RKV11-D (THANK YOU Ethan Dicks - which I am close to being finished with) to recover some RK05 packs I obtained last year in Montreal, I would NEVER consider using the RL02 drives, let alone the RK05 drive, as a production unit to fix software bugs, etc. So if I really want to run some code which can only be run using an RK05 device driver under RT-11, I would use Ersatz-11 and run the code on a PC under Windows 98 SE/Ersatz-11. About the only problem is that it will run TOO FAST - about 15 times the speed of a PDP-11/93 right now and eventually I hope to get to 50 times the speed of a PDP-11/93 when a high end Pentium 4 is cheap enough. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Oct 3 09:34:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available References: Message-ID: <3D9C556B.18AFDE8B@compsys.to> >"David A. Woyciesjes" wrote: > How about my Seagate 9 GB SCSI drive, that are the size of 2 > CD-ROMs glue together? :) Got 3 of them. I also have a 2GB and a 600MB > SCSI drive of the same size... > --- David A. Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 Jerome Fine replies: If I am not mistaken, all ST3xxxxN drives have the same physical dimensions. I have some ST32550N drives, so I know what you mean. I can easily hold 2 drives in one hand at a time from the top and up to a dozen drives if I am extremely careful from the bottom. By the way, do you know where I could find a spare ST39171N or similar drive? I see them on eBay every so often, but I have not bothered as yet. Tim Shoppa has bragged about his 9 GBytes SCSI drive that he uses under RT-11 with 256 partitions!!! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 3 09:44:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC4B@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > I probably have the room, but not the inclination. I am > really a software person - the hardware is just there to > run the software - well mostly - my wife certainly would > not agree when she she looks at the basement full of > PDP-11 junk. Ahh, but that merely takes a quick #ifdef WIFE # undef WIFE # define WIFE GEEK_WIFE #endif to fix... :) > As for using the RL02 and RK05 drives, while I have > one RK05 drive at the moment and a borrowed RKV11-D > (THANK YOU Ethan Dicks - which I am close to being > finished with) to recover some RK05 packs I obtained > last year in Montreal, I would NEVER consider using the > RL02 drives, let alone the RK05 drive, as a production > unit to fix software bugs, etc. So if I really want to run > some code which can only be run using an RK05 device > driver under RT-11, I would use Ersatz-11 and run the > code on a PC under Windows 98 SE/Ersatz-11. About > the only problem is that it will run TOO FAST - about > 15 times the speed of a PDP-11/93 right now and > eventually I hope to get to 50 times the speed of a > PDP-11/93 when a high end Pentium 4 is cheap enough. I do all my Ultrix-11 development under E11 too, simple because (a) it's a hell of a lot faster, and (b) I can take Falcon (the "machine") with me, including its four RA82 drives and all the others. :) Still.. I do try make sure it still runs (acceptably) on Real Hardware as much as possible. Which usually means teaming with retrogeek-friends for Yet Another retro-session. (did I mention the WIFE issue already? They usually seem to have issues with these sessions, too.. duuno why ;-) So... OK. I probably would not run a bunch of RP's for fun anymore. However, I have friends ['lo, ed ;-] that do, soo... :) --fred From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 3 09:46:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC4C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> I used to have about half a zillion of these and other "anywhere between 2 and 9G" SCSI drives, mostly taken from old Compaq servers I had to service. Most of them have been given away, but I do have some 4GB's left. I *might* have a bunch of 9GB barracuda's left, too, which run at 7200. And get hot. :) --f From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Oct 3 09:50:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? References: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <3D9C58A4.4C983EAE@ccp.com> Steve Jones wrote: > > Why do now what you can put off until the last minute... > > A gentleman in Canada has some hardware that he's willing to give > me (old computers in questionable state). Thing is, neither one of > us is sure if there's any paperwork required to bring these boxes > over the border. He's even willing to deliver, but not without any > necessary paperwork. > > Can anybody fill me in on what would be required? Would working > versus non-working make a difference? It's close to 15 years old > if that matters... > > Thanks, > --Steve. > > smj@spamfree.crash.com One needs to consult with a customs broker, and there are many in business on both sides of the border. One trick to help avoid duties is to disable working equipment and declare it junk. Something simple like snipping attached line cords, or pulling a fuse(s) out of the power supply. Since NAFTA I haven't any idea what some of the procedures are now. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Oct 3 09:51:01 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: <3D9C556B.18AFDE8B@compsys.to> Message-ID: On 10/03/02, Jerome H. Fine scribbled: > >"David A. Woyciesjes" wrote: > > > How about my Seagate 9 GB SCSI drive, that are the size of 2 > > CD-ROMs glue together? :) Got 3 of them. I also have a 2GB and a 600MB > > SCSI drive of the same size... > > Jerome Fine replies: > > If I am not mistaken, all ST3xxxxN drives have the same > physical dimensions. I have some ST32550N drives, so > I know what you mean. I can easily hold 2 drives in one > hand at a time from the top and up to a dozen drives if > I am extremely careful from the bottom. Actually, I was talking about my ST-910800N Elite 9 drives. They are 3.25"H x 5.75"W x 8"D and weigh 8 lbs each. Try to hold 2 of these from the top! :) But yeah, I do believe all ST3xxxxN drives are the common current size of about 1"H x 4"W x 6"D. > By the way, do you know where I could find a spare > ST39171N or similar drive? I see them on eBay every > so often, but I have not bothered as yet. > I would say either eBay, or maybe Pricewatch... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 3 09:59:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <200210030119.g931Jni17129@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I for one obviously don't have a problem with having an official 'cool > factor clause'. After all, then my DEC PWS 433au running OpenVMS would be > ontopic, as would systems such as BeBox's and the like. > > I think as a whole, systems that aren't x86 based, or Mac's that are less > than 10 years old have been considered to have suffecient 'coolness factor'. > Besides, about all that seems to cover is UNIX workstations, and OpenVMS > systems. > > Also, I think 'custom built' x86 systems that have been specifically built > to emulate older hardware, such as a PDP-10 are almost ontopic. I think as long as this doesn't become a Windows technical support forum then we're fine. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 3 10:02:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > To add to my thoughts, it certainly does not seem like the list has been > around for so long. It feels like I jumped on just a little bit ago. What > has it been? Three years? Four years? Five? Maybe I ought to go chill out > with a beverage. I am getting old. The list is about 5.5 years old now. (Amazing, isn't it?) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Oct 3 10:11:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC3F@mwsrv04.microwalt.n l> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021003093105.0267cb38@pc> At 11:43 AM 10/3/2002 +0200, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >I wrote my own ASPI layer for both DOS and Win32, and developed >a bunch of tools around them to handle the reading, writing and >archiving of tapes of various sorts. Did you release these tools on the web somewhere? - John From jss at subatomix.com Thu Oct 3 10:23:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: First Indirect Addressing? In-Reply-To: <3D9BAAB5.D4124B33@compsys.to> References: <3D9BAAB5.D4124B33@compsys.to> Message-ID: <853821124.20021003102054@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > When I first saw this line, I did not thing of a drum system as having > indirect addressing. ... The last 4 decimal digits [of an instruction] > were the ADDRESS of the next instruction on the drum. That's not indirect addressing. What I mean by 'indirect addressing' is 'accessing data at run-time-computed addresses'. You're talking about accessing code at hardcoded addresses. I was thinking of the first machine that supported indirect addressing in its instruction set, but we should also count machines where you could kludge indirect addressing by modifying the machine code before executing it. -- Jeffrey Sharp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 3 10:29:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years Message-ID: Well, as to not accepting x86-machines, then would that rule out NetFrames? Those things rock, running Netware SMP or Windows NT.. Fault-tolerant too... And though it isn't 10 yet, what about my Sequent? Would the fact it runs Pentium-66s disqualify it? I think I agree with Sellam, in that so long as it doesn't turn into a Windows support forum its OK... Would be good not to have basic PC questions either, unless they're for say 5150s or for the "sort-of-compatible" early clones.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Thu Oct 3 10:31:00 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Items for free Message-ID: Hello all, I have the following items available for free... You do need to pay for shipping, so send me your country or ZIP code with your requests, so I can get shipping quotes out. I accept PayPal, or money order for postage payments. This is *NOT* first-come, first-serve. In order to be fair to international and digest readers, I will pull names from my hat (or any other convenient place :-) ) to determine who gets what. PLEASE make all contact OFF-LIST.... No need to flood the list with replies... - HP Network Printer Interface for HP LaserJet IIIsi -- looks unused, comes w/ selaed manual, LANSpool Si test drive edition, original box - Dell Laser System Font Cartridge "R" - Qty. 2 SMC fiber-optic Arcnet cards, ISA bus, model PC-310, original box, w/ manual and registration card, sticker priced at $1295.00 each! - Qty. 2 proNET Model p2400 "Wire center" -- 4 ports on top, two on the sides, top ports labeled "node", side ports labeled "link". Each port has a switch for "in ring" and"out", and each port is a 15-pin D-shaped connector -- token ring??? - NEC ProSpeed Power-Block Battery Cartridge for the ProSpeed 286 laptop. Model no. PC-21-71. Probably dead, but looks in near-mint condition, and in original box/packaging. - Qty. 3 Connect brand Ethernet/PC 16-bit ISA Ethernet cards -- AUI/BNC connectors, original box, driver disk, docs (refer to BNC as "CheaperNet" connector, so you know it's old :-)) - Microchannel 3270 card -- no docs, but comes w/ "IBM Personal System 3270 Connection Diagnostics" diskette (Version 4.10) - Tiara LANCard/A, full-length 16-bit ISA Arcnet card, w/ original box, manual - Chorus Data Systems PC-EYE Video Capture card -- old, full-length 8-bit ISA card for video capture. w/ original box, docs, software. Manual seems to indicate it willwork with "standard" graphics cards, but install instructions only refer to Chorus cards - Excelan Etherport II ethernet card -- looks like a Macintosh NuBus, or PDS? (96-pin connector, 3 rows of 32) full-length card, no docs or drivers - Qty. 3 Madge Microchannel token ring cards, "SMART MC Ringnode", w/ original box, disks,docs. 2 boxes still sealed, one opened - Proteon ProNET 8-port Wire Center. similar to 4-port described above, but with 8 ports, not 4 :-) - Megahertz External Token Ring Adapter for Toshiba T1000SE/XE/LE, T1200XE, T2000SX, original box, manual, disks _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 3 10:44:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track [GAIN] Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC51@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hey all ! *grumpf* still not working. Although I can change the DENSITY setting with CONF 46, it doesn't "hold" it. The moment I try to write a tape, it switches back to the original 6250 setting. Meaning (apparently) that the host is forcing it to 6250... So... how does one tell that thing that host (SCSI) commands can **NOT** override the default density stored with CONF46 ? I grabbed the Sun manual, but that didn't say much about it, just that it had a DENSITY switch which mine doesn't have, and the info on the COFN46 stuff... --fred From n4fs at monmouth.com Thu Oct 3 10:46:01 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? References: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> <3D9C58A4.4C983EAE@ccp.com> Message-ID: <00de01c26af2$397e3ec0$d2775243@n4fs> Another thing that really helps is to declare that it was made in the USA. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Hildebrand" To: Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? > Steve Jones wrote: > > > > Why do now what you can put off until the last minute... > > > > A gentleman in Canada has some hardware that he's willing to give > > me (old computers in questionable state). Thing is, neither one of > > us is sure if there's any paperwork required to bring these boxes > > over the border. He's even willing to deliver, but not without any > > necessary paperwork. > > > > Can anybody fill me in on what would be required? Would working > > versus non-working make a difference? It's close to 15 years old > > if that matters... > > > > Thanks, > > --Steve. > > > > smj@spamfree.crash.com > > One needs to consult with a customs broker, and there are many in > business on both sides of the border. One trick to help avoid duties is > to disable working equipment and declare it junk. Something simple like > snipping attached line cords, or pulling a fuse(s) out of the power > supply. > > Since NAFTA I haven't any idea what some of the procedures are now. > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO > From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Thu Oct 3 10:48:01 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: OT: Anybody have these Apple items?? Message-ID: Hello all, You knew this list would closely follow the free list :-) I believe all of these are too new to be on-topic, so my apologies... It never hurts to ask, right? If anyone has any of these items, please contact me OFF-LIST... Thanks! 1) Apple Localtalk Locking Connector Kit, DE-9 (for a LocalTalk PC Card). I have two cards, so I'd like two kits... 2) I recently purchased a 12" PCI-slot Apple PC Compatibility card, for a PowerMac 8500, but it did not have the three-connector monitor cable (one connects to the PC card, one to the monitor, and one to the Mac video output). 3) Apple "Superdrive" 1.44MB 3.5" floppy -- needs to be the AUTO-INJECT style, where the manual eject pinhole is directly to the right of the drive slot, and NOT where the pinhole is directly below the slot. You can also identify this drive as one WITHOUT the flap over the drive slot. The bare drive is fine, as I intend to put it in my own enclosure. I'd like to get two if possible. I guess that's it for now.. :-) Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 3 11:22:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: TDU, TDF and "Doing magtape image archiving" [was: HP 7980S ...] Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC54@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, Oooh... hrrm. Didn't realize there was such a lot of interest in those (already). The toolkit is basically an API in the shape of a C library, which handles all the nitty gritty of the TDF (Tape Distribution Format, aka Tape Dump Format) file format stuff. The user interface for reading physical tapes to image, writing the images back to physical tapes, and doing all sorts of weird stuff with the image files, is handled by a single program called TDU, the T... Utility. Its synopsis is similar to that of 'tar': -------------------------------------------------------- TDU version 1.0.15 for OpenBSD on VAX. Usage: tdu [-f file] [-m maxchunk] [-p path] [-v] cmd [args] where 'cmd' is one of {c|e|i|p|r|t|w|x} -------------------------------------------------------- Also, several conversion tools exist to convert between TDF and TAP (used in Ersatz-11 and SimH simlators) and raw formats. The tookit is currently in its final First Release testing, at version 1.0.15. It has been tested with the following systems: - DOS 6.22 and Win32 DOS box (with ASPI layers for tape I/O) - Windows 9X, NT 4.0 and 2K, Win32 console app - DEC Ultrix-32 V4.5 both VAX and MIPS - OpenBSD/vax V3.1 - DEC Ultrix-11 (on PD-11/83, both real and emulated) - SunOS 4.1.4 on SPARCstation - Solaris (cant memebr which one) - SGI IRIX Porting to VMS is being done by Robert Alan Byer, of SimH/VMS fame. Thanks to Tim Shoppa for helping me out with one of those 'does this ever happen?' issues ... :) I have added TDF support to SimH, so you can just do a simh> mount mt0: /u/dist/rsx11mplus-4.2-tp1.tdf /wprotect /tdf in SinH and then boot the tape. The goal, of course, is to be able to easly get an archive of software up and running. Here's sample output of what an RSX-11M Plus V4.2 tape looks like: -------------------------------------------------------- (vaxlab)$ tdu tfv rsx11mplus-4.2-tp1.tdf TDF version : 1 CRC-32 : 0x32b466df Part # : BB-J083H-BC Serial Number : ME109856 Tape Label : RSX-11M-PLUS V4.2 MT:1600 Description : BRUSYS STANDALONE COPY SYSTEM Copyright : 1989 Owner : DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION File 0 : blocksize 512 (439 blocks) File 1 : blocksize 80 (2 blocks) File 2 : blocksize 80 (1 blocks) 2 : blocksize 512 (2 blocks) 2 : blocksize 80 (1 blocks) 2 : blocksize 512 (1 blocks) 2 : blocksize 80 (2 blocks) 2 : blocksize 2560 (1 blocks) 2 : blocksize 80 (1 blocks) 2 : blocksize 4144 (28 blocks) 2 : blocksize 560 (1 blocks) File 3 : blocksize 80 (2 blocks) File 4 : blocksize 80 (2 blocks) File 5 : blocksize 80 (1 blocks) 5 : blocksize 512 (2 blocks) ....... -------------------------------------------------------- All I need to do is testing magtapes written with TDU, and I need the HP to work for that. The code will be released for more testing after I merge in Robert Byer's VMS stuff when he's done. Cheers, Fred From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Oct 3 11:30:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years References: <200210022327.g92NRWB11843@shell1.aracnet.com> <013001c26a6f$2fcd1a00$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <002501c26afa$38296380$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Geoff Roberts wrote: > I still give my kids 486Dx's with VESA video and 95 to play games on > and even do a bit of net surfing, > play music cd's etc on stuff that most people consider beyond > obsolete. Real Men (tm) use Linux :-) Although I have to admit, I do keep Win98 around for one simple reason. Starcraft. > with 100mbps wireless connections to the internet *drool* We'll need more IP addresses first. > Uh, what's a > Blue Screen of Death? Bill who?" I ask myself the same questions when I use Linux :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From hansp at aconit.org Thu Oct 3 11:31:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: First Indirect Addressing? References: <3D9BAAB5.D4124B33@compsys.to> <853821124.20021003102054@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3D9C70F9.6050901@aconit.org> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > I was thinking of the first machine that supported indirect addressing in > its instruction set, but we should also count machines where you could > kludge indirect addressing by modifying the machine code before executing > it. But surely ANY computer (other than Harvard architecture machines which seaprate code from data) can modify their own program. In that case I do not hesitatte to nominate the Manchester Baby machine, first operational program in June 1948. It did not have any hardwired indirect addressing but it could certainly modify its own program. -- hbp > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 3 12:24:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Stuff on ebay Message-ID: <200210031725.KAA16340@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > >> > ROCKWELL's 6502 (100% 6800 code compatible) >> >> He probably runs windows XP on it as well, using it as a >> firewall/intranet server for the house. >> >> "It is best to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to >> open it and remove all doubt." > >Besides, wasn't the Rockwell chip the improved version of the original >(MOS) 6502, called the 65C02? It had some nifty extra instructions and >an extra addressing mode.. > >--fred > Hi Fred I have a Rockwell AIM65 and book. I'll have to see if there is anything extra. Having worked on both 6800 and 6502 code, I can assure you that there is no code compatability. The 6502 traded depth in instructions for more page 0 accesses. For most applications, this worked well. Those who worked with Apples will tell you that the OS over used page 0 and didn't leave enough for the users. As was mentioned, there was a 6501 that was pin compatable with the 6800. It was also not code compatable. Rockwell also made a number of embedded 6502 application processors. These are a pain because they are P-MOS and have non-ttl busses. I have these in my old Gottlieb pinball machine ( what we pinheads call spider chips ). Dwight From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Oct 3 12:49:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <002501c26afa$38296380$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <200210022327.g92NRWB11843@shell1.aracnet.com> <013001c26a6f$2fcd1a00$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: >Real Men (tm) use Linux :-) No, real men use whichever OS is best suited to what they are trying to do. For me, at work, that means Linux, Solaris, and AIX. At home, it typically means Mac OS 9.1 or OpenVMS, but can also mean OpenBSD, WinXP, Linux, or others depending on what I'm trying to do. >Although I have to admit, I do keep Win98 around for one simple reason. >Starcraft. Uh, doesn't Starcraft run on Linux under Wine? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Oct 3 12:57:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > I would actually like to see the "official" cutoff pushed out to 20 > years, as 10 years just does not seem that long ago... We could start a second list: ClassicerCmp. -brian. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Oct 3 13:02:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: References: <200210030119.g931Jni17129@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021003140053.0078e134@pop1.epm.net.co> Sellam wrote: >I think as long as this doesn't become a Windows technical support forum >then we're fine. Actually, whenever such questions arise we could simply put our BOFH hat before answering :-) . carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 3 13:19:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? In-Reply-To: <00de01c26af2$397e3ec0$d2775243@n4fs> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > Another thing that really helps is to declare that it was made in the USA. > Regards - Mike That can SOMETIMES add to the problems! A US company with a registered trademark can object to anything with their trademark being permitted in! But, on a casual level, it might help to tell the customs guy that it is merely being "returned" to the US. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Oct 3 13:22:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: First Indirect Addressing? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Oct 2002 18:31:53 +0200." <3D9C70F9.6050901@aconit.org> Message-ID: <200210031750.SAA03746@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Hans B Pufal said: > Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > I was thinking of the first machine that supported indirect addressing in > > its instruction set, but we should also count machines where you could > > kludge indirect addressing by modifying the machine code before executing > > it. > > But surely ANY computer (other than Harvard architecture machines which > seaprate code from data) can modify their own program. In that case I do > not hesitatte to nominate the Manchester Baby machine, first operational > program in June 1948. It did not have any hardwired indirect addressing > but it could certainly modify its own program. Indeed, and that was the normal way of indexing arrays on EDSAC (1949). (I'm just writing some simple test programs for the emulator, so I know that's the only way to do it!). -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Oct 3 13:22:23 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years References: Message-ID: <3D9C8B8C.1060203@tiac.net> Lets face it, PC's have been around a while now, and they are not going away any time soon. But how 'classic' is any machine that was so highly mass-produced? The sheer numbers make them so common, their collectable 'value' will be nearly zero, unless they are unusual in some way. So highly customized PC's, or specialized machines (i.e. EISA bus) may hold more interest than your standard PCI based Pentiums, which are about as collectable as a 10 year old toaster. But there are some 'interesting' things out there in PC land, strange things that never made it into mass production, like Intel P54CBT's, or extinct operating systems like PenPoint. Older machines, like minicomputers from back when all machines had a front panel, had very unique and recognisable styles. The gold plating of HP gear, the near military qualitiy (and tank-like nature) of Unibus machines, or the no-nonsense practicality of a Nova, each made a clear statement about the design philosophy of their makers. PC's simply lack this, being a commodity product (exactly like a toaster). So yes, Windows 95 will become a 'classic' O/S. So what, that will not make it any more interesting. This of it this way, the era of recognisable computer design philosophy ended, some time ago. This only makes the value of really ANTIQUE computers much higher than mearly 'vintage' computers. To my eye, an interesting machine its not really a matter of being more than 10 years old, its a matter of having been made with a unique design style. It just so happens that once upon a time, all computers were made this way. Will Jennings wrote: > Well, as to not accepting x86-machines, then would that rule out > NetFrames? Those things rock, running Netware SMP or Windows NT.. > Fault-tolerant too... And though it isn't 10 yet, what about my > Sequent? Would the fact it runs Pentium-66s disqualify it? I think I > agree with Sellam, in that so long as it doesn't turn into a Windows > support forum its OK... Would be good not to have basic PC questions > either, unless they're for say 5150s or for the "sort-of-compatible" > early clones.. > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Oct 3 13:53:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: What's wrong with this picture? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: > on 10/3/02 12:30 AM, Lawrence Walker at lgwalker@mts.net wrote: > > Actually there are Intel "white" Next's. Doubtfull they would be Pentium > > based tho. > > I have a NeXTstep 3.x CD that says it contains the black and white (NeXT and > Intel) versions of the OS. So by 'Intel' does it mean PCs, or specialized > Intel based hardware? I always thought it meant that it would run on 486 and > higher PCs, but I haven't been able to get it to boot on any, which leads me > to believe that it isn't for generic Intel hardware. Or maybe I need a boot > floppy which I don't have. It runs just fine on Pentium systems, at least with the subset of video and network cards it supports. Up until the end of 2000, DreamWork's Animation used a variety of Dell Pentium systems, maybe even some PIIs, for their pencil test stations. In 2001, we moved to Linux/Intel based system. If you need a NEXTSTEP 3.3 boot floppy, I'll mail you an image which you can use dd or rawrite.exe to put onto a 1.44MB floppy. -brian. From passerm at umkc.edu Thu Oct 3 14:04:00 2002 From: passerm at umkc.edu (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years References: Message-ID: <003e01c26b0f$cc37b6c0$8e8fc186@kc.umkc.edu> Re: 10 yearsI find it interesting that I agree with this, but picturing the same text after a %s/PC/C64/g (and other appropriate adjustments) changes my attitude somewhat. --Mike From jss at subatomix.com Thu Oct 3 14:22:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <003e01c26b0f$cc37b6c0$8e8fc186@kc.umkc.edu> References: <003e01c26b0f$cc37b6c0$8e8fc186@kc.umkc.edu> Message-ID: <10818179360.20021003142012@subatomix.com> On Thursday, October 3, 2002, Michael Passer wrote: > I find it interesting that I agree with this, With what? There are numerious view in this thread. > but picturing the same text What text? There are numerous emails in this thread. > after a %s/PC/C64/g (and other appropriate adjustments) changes my > attitude somewhat. To what? There are numerous ways one's attitude can change. -- Jeffrey Sharp From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 3 14:22:19 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? In-Reply-To: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> References: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <4969.4.20.168.172.1033673022.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > A gentleman in Canada has some hardware that he's willing to give > me (old computers in questionable state). Thing is, neither one of us is > sure if there's any paperwork required to bring these boxes > over the border. If the equipment was originally made in USA, it's no problem. Just tell US Customs that you're reptriating it. They may want some proof that it's made in USA. A label stating that is best, but even just the address of the manufacturer being in the USA may be sufficient. Failing that, you can just tell them that it's old scrap with no commercial value. That's true, isn't it? It might help to buy the equipment from him for a nominal price rather than get it as a gift. If you buy it (for $25, perhaps) and have a bill of sale, the import duty would be based on the sale price. But if it's a gift, Customs would try to determine the value and assess the import duty based on that. I'm not an expert, but I've brought computer equipment into the US from Canada twice without problems. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 3 14:34:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Stuff on ebay In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469C4@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469C4@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3673.4.20.168.172.1033673747.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Besides, wasn't the Rockwell chip the improved version of the original > (MOS) 6502, called the 65C02? It had some nifty extra instructions and > an extra addressing mode.. That came later. Rockwell was one of the original second-source manufacturers of the NMOS 6502, with no added instructions. Synertek was another. Contrary to popular belief, Mostek *NEVER* made any 6502s or related parts. Rockwell made a line of single-chip microcontrollers based on the NMOS 6502 core, starting with the "6500/1" (that's the full part number, it's not a 6500 or 6501). On some of these parts they added an extra set of bit manipulation instructions, using opcodes of the form xxxxxx11, all of which were undefined on the original 6501 and 6502. Some friends and I did a lot of work with the 6511Q, a ROMless part with a lot of nice on-board I/O features. When Rockwell licensed the CMOS 6502 from WDC, they added their bit manipuation instructions to it. Thus the Rockwell R65C02 has more instructions than the "standard" 65C02 from WDC, GTE, NCR, and others. Their later single-chip microcontrollers were based on the CMOS core. Rockewll put a preliminary blurb sheet for an R65C29 in one of their data books, but unfortunately never introduced the part. The 65C29 was described as containing two R65C02 processors. Internally, though, it was to be a "double-pumped" design. It would have had two complete sets of registers (A, X, Y, P, S, PC), but only one set of logic, and switched between the two contexts on alternate clocks. Conceptually similar to the "barrel processor" approach of the PPUs on the CDC 6600, except that the PPUs each had their own memory while the 65C29 would have shared the same memory for both contexts. This technique is used in several proprietary microcontrollers, and in at least one new commercial microprocessor due out in 2003. A related technique is used by Intel for their "Hyperthreading" in the Xeon. From passerm at umkc.edu Thu Oct 3 14:39:00 2002 From: passerm at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael W.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years Message-ID: The point is that elitists years ago would have said the same thing about the C-64, which is now generally considered a classic. From jrice54 at charter.net Thu Oct 3 14:46:13 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years References: <3D9C8B8C.1060203@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3D9CA0A6.5030006@charter.net> I feel that the BeBox fit's that category. An orphan OS, unusual design (dual PPC, not a Mac, PC conponent's, case color, and don't forget the blinkin lights). The last BeBoxs won't be 10 years old until 2008. The original Grid laptops with magnesium cases and oil field equipment rugged design are another. The first Grids not the Tandy Grids are already included in the 10 year rule I think. James Bob Shannon wrote: > Lets face it, PC's have been around a while now, and they are not going > away any time soon. > > But how 'classic' is any machine that was so highly mass-produced? The > sheer numbers make them so common, their > collectable 'value' will be nearly zero, unless they are unusual in some > way. > > So highly customized PC's, or specialized machines (i.e. EISA bus) may > hold more interest than your standard PCI based Pentiums, which are > about as collectable as a 10 year old toaster. > > But there are some 'interesting' things out there in PC land, strange > things that never made it into mass production, like Intel P54CBT's, or > extinct operating systems like PenPoint. > > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 3 14:47:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: OSI disk basic disk In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146EAB@BUSH02> References: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146EAB@BUSH02> Message-ID: <2689.4.20.168.172.1033674482.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Does anyone have an image of the OSI Disk BASIC disk? Did they actually have anything called "Disk BASIC"? When I used OSI systems, they had two operating systems, OS-65/D and OS-65/U (not sure of the punctuation in those). OS-65/D was what was normally found on smaller systems. It was a pathetic excuse for an operating system. If you wanted to view the directory, you had to run a BASIC program to do it. Sorted directory listing? You've got to be kidding. And if you had a program in memory that you didn't want to lose by loading the directory program, too bad. Need to create a file? Run another BASIC program. It prompts you for the filename, starting track, and ending track. It doesn't check whether your new file overlaps an existing file. I guess the good thing about it was that the BASIC programs were easily modified to add those features. When I was in junior high school and had less than a year of computer experience, I had no trouble adding a Shell sort to the directory program, and enhancing the file creation program to check for sufficient room and locate the file for you. I sent my improved versions to Ohio Scientific, but never heard from them. The main accomplishment of my friend Tod and I on the C4P at school was to write a game based on the arcade game "blockout". That taught me how to do keyboard scanning and direct access to the video memory. We were pretty good at the game, but we added a cheat feature so that we'd always beat the other students. If you pressed a particular key (different for the left and right player), it would enable cheat mode and automatically turn if you were about to crash. Nowdays Tod is a professor of Computer Science, and assigns writing this game (including cheat mode) as an exercise for his students. :-) Tod and I both migrated from using the C4P to the Apple ][. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 3 14:51:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC4B@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC4B@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <4793.4.20.168.172.1033674721.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Ahh, but that merely takes a quick > > #ifdef WIFE > # undef WIFE > # define WIFE GEEK_WIFE > #endif You forgot the step: #undef HALF Also, the third step of your algorithm seems to be quite difficult to achieve. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 3 14:54:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? In-Reply-To: <3D9C58A4.4C983EAE@ccp.com> References: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> <3D9C58A4.4C983EAE@ccp.com> Message-ID: <2280.4.20.168.172.1033674938.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > One needs to consult with a customs broker, and there are many in > business on both sides of the border. For old equipment, the broker's fee will exceed the import duties you could expect to pay. I've had people send me stuff from Canada, and later received outrageous bills from customs brokers, usually for around five times what I paid for the merchandise. As far as I'm concerned, I have no established business relationship with these customs brokers. I did not expect the sender to use such a broker, and was not told that it would be done. So I have never paid them. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 3 14:58:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC57@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > > Ahh, but that merely takes a quick > > > > #ifdef WIFE > > # undef WIFE > > # define WIFE GEEK_WIFE > > #endif > > You forgot the step: > > #undef HALF OOps. > Also, the third step of your algorithm seems to be quite > difficult to achieve. Nobody ever said programming was easy... :) Much worse is the lack of share-ware (also called try-before-you-buy) these days... --f From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 3 15:01:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? In-Reply-To: References: <00de01c26af2$397e3ec0$d2775243@n4fs> Message-ID: <4221.4.20.168.172.1033675329.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Mike Feher wrote: > Another thing that really helps is to declare that it was made in the > USA. Regards - Mike "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > That can SOMETIMES add to the problems! > A US company with a registered trademark can object to anything with > their trademark being permitted in! Surely they can't do anything to prevent a product they manufactured and that bears their trademark from being imported? Isn't that covered under the doctrine of first sale? From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Oct 3 15:02:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: 10 years References: <200210022327.g92NRWB11843@shell1.aracnet.com> <013001c26a6f$2fcd1a00$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <000a01c26b17$ddae4240$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Although I have to admit, I do keep Win98 around for one simple >> reason. Starcraft. > > Uh, doesn't Starcraft run on Linux under Wine? Yes, but it runs too slowly under WINE to be playable. Under 98 it runs fine. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jim at jkearney.com Thu Oct 3 15:11:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Stuff on ebay References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469C4@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <3673.4.20.168.172.1033673747.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <02a101c26b19$22ceae40$1301090a@jkearney.com> > > (MOS) 6502, called the 65C02? It had some nifty extra instructions and > was another. Contrary to popular belief, Mostek *NEVER* made any 6502s I think a lot of people are just mistakenly taking 'Mostek' as a short form of 'MOS Technology'. > instructions than the "standard" 65C02 from WDC, GTE, NCR, and others. I have a GTE 65SC02 here that has yet another variation of the extended instructions Here's a snippet I found: <> I don't think "MOS Semiconductors" is right, though. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Thu Oct 3 15:12:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? References: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> <4969.4.20.168.172.1033673022.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D9CA4D1.204859E2@naffnet.org.uk> Eric Smith wrote: > It might help to buy the equipment from him for a nominal price rather > than get it as a gift. If you buy it (for $25, perhaps) and have > a bill of sale, the import duty would be based on the sale price. But > if it's a gift, Customs would try to determine the value and assess the > import duty based on that. If it's a gift, and the value is less that $100 then the customs section of the US embassy pages here in the UK imply that there is no duty to pay - other than that the first $100 would not be subject to duty. Dave. From dancohoe at oxford.net Thu Oct 3 15:31:00 2002 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? In-Reply-To: <4969.4.20.168.172.1033673022.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <000d01c26b1b$be6a9420$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Eric Smith > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:24 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? > > > > A gentleman in Canada has some hardware that he's willing to give > > me (old computers in questionable state). Thing is, neither > one of us is > > sure if there's any paperwork required to bring these boxes > > over the border. ........Eric Smith said: > > If the equipment was originally made in USA, it's no problem. Just > tell US Customs that you're reptriating it. They may want some proof > that it's made in USA. A label stating that is best, but even just > the address of the manufacturer being in the USA may be sufficient. > > Failing that, you can just tell them that it's old scrap with no > commercial value. That's true, isn't it? > > It might help to buy the equipment from him for a nominal price rather > than get it as a gift. If you buy it (for $25, perhaps) and have > a bill of sale, the import duty would be based on the sale price. But > if it's a gift, Customs would try to determine the value and > assess the > import duty based on that. > > I'm not an expert, but I've brought computer equipment into > the US from > Canada twice without problems. > I usually am bringing stuff into Canada, but once I wanted to pass through from Eastern Ontario into New York, through Syracuse, then back into Canada at Buffalo. Problem was, I had about 20 HP 9000 series 300 machines with me coming from Canada. The US Customs agent heard my story, looked at the HP plate that said "Made in USA" and sent me on my way to Buffalo. My experience going the other way has always been that a good explanation of what you are doing, a reasonable valuation (more than $0 even if the stuff was a gift to you), and a look by the agent at a date sticker or an IC with an early eighties or beyond date will convince at least a supervisor that the goods have very little value and that the real reason you are doing this is because of some weakness in your mental powers. Dan Cohoe From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Oct 3 15:59:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" In-Reply-To: <20021001170427.J52018-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <038201c26b1f$dc7af8c0$90f8b8ce@impac.com> Jim Willing's website seems to be down and I assume his email went with it. Did anyone happen to copy down his mailing address from the garage sale page before it stopped working? I want to send him payment for a couple of items he's holding for me. Thank you, Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 3 16:10:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? In-Reply-To: <2280.4.20.168.172.1033674938.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20021003211115.7667.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Smith wrote: > > One needs to consult with a customs broker, and there are many in > > business on both sides of the border. > > For old equipment, the broker's fee will exceed the import duties you > could expect to pay. I've had people send me stuff from Canada, and > later received outrageous bills from customs brokers, usually for around > five times what I paid for the merchandise. As far as I'm concerned, > I have no established business relationship with these customs brokers. > I did not expect the sender to use such a broker, and was not told that > it would be done. So I have never paid them. I had one of them contact me while the shipment was being held. This was > 10 years ago and was one of the first times I'd ever ordered a product by e-mail from Canada. It was also the first time that this guy (small company) sent any thing _from_ Canada. He just took it to UPS and off it went. They wanted $80 to process the paperwork. I told them there was no way I was paying them and that they needed to send the shipment back to the shipper. They were genuinely surprised. What I have learned since then is that when shipping via UPS, a one- page form, properly filled out, is all you need. No brokers. No funny business. There is the potential for duty, depending on the price and nature of the item, but that's a different issue. Mostly, my personal experiences have been shipping 10" 9-track tapes to Canadian COMBOARD customers (software, no duty; $4 tape, no duty) and GG2 Bus+ boards (via Post, so I expect that any duties are paid by the recipent - I certainly didn't pay any to export - that's unconstitutional). ISTR a UPS export declaration form was all I had to submit with my shipper's book for a pickup. Things may have changed with NAFTA (easier rather than harder, I would expect), but it shouldn't be a major production. Physically taking the goods with you across the border is a different story. Accompanied goods are subject to different regulations (like the $100 exemption previously mentioned). Proof of place of manufacture can be handy ("Made in USA" stickers *should* suffice). Proof of purchase is nearly as good. I've never had any problems with bringing anything across the border with me except the one time I was asked to pay import duty on some Canadian beer I brought home with me, because I didn't spend enough time in Canada to qualify for an exemption. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Oct 3 16:12:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:44 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" References: <038201c26b1f$dc7af8c0$90f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <003301c26b21$924abea0$3200a8c0@winnt> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik S. Klein" > Did anyone happen to copy down his mailing address from the garage sale > page before it stopped working? I want to send him payment for a couple > of items he's holding for me. > As much as I hate to say it - me too. If someone does have the address, can you post it to the list (or barring that, include me in the email)? From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Oct 3 16:14:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? Message-ID: It used to be for some cameras that you could not import one if it had the logo/name intact. Just covering it with tape or goo was not sufficient -- the name had to be ground off! This condition was imposed by the official US importer, IIRC. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith [mailto:eric@brouhaha.com] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:02 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? Mike Feher wrote: > Another thing that really helps is to declare that it was made in the > USA. Regards - Mike "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > That can SOMETIMES add to the problems! > A US company with a registered trademark can object to anything with > their trademark being permitted in! Surely they can't do anything to prevent a product they manufactured and that bears their trademark from being imported? Isn't that covered under the doctrine of first sale? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 3 16:15:41 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: 65C02 (was RE: Stuff on ebay) In-Reply-To: <3673.4.20.168.172.1033673747.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20021003211542.949.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Smith wrote: > When Rockwell licensed the CMOS 6502 from WDC, they added their bit > manipuation instructions to it. Thus the Rockwell R65C02 has more > instructions than the "standard" 65C02 from WDC, GTE, NCR, and others. Speaking of the 65C02, does anyone know if replacing the 6502 in a PET or VIC-20 is known to trip up copy protection on any apps/games? I know that for well-behaved code, there should be no problems. I'm concerned about WordPro or some other pirate-fearing program trying to be clever with undocumented op codes, and not working with a real 65C02. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Oct 3 16:19:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" In-Reply-To: <003301c26b21$924abea0$3200a8c0@winnt> References: <038201c26b1f$dc7af8c0$90f8b8ce@impac.com> <003301c26b21$924abea0$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <20021003214058.GE37876@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Christopher McNabb, from writings of Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 05:12:24PM -0400: > > Did anyone happen to copy down his mailing address from the garage sale > > page before it stopped working? I want to send him payment for a couple > > of items he's holding for me. > > As much as I hate to say it - me too. If someone does have the address, can > you post it to the list (or barring that, include me in the email)? Same here. Thanks. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From curt at atari-history.com Thu Oct 3 17:02:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" References: <038201c26b1f$dc7af8c0$90f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <000601c26b28$88b62ee0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> What happened??? I donated $100 a while back to the save Jim's Garage fund..... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik S. Klein" To: Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: RE: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" > Jim Willing's website seems to be down and I assume his email went with > it. > > Did anyone happen to copy down his mailing address from the garage sale > page before it stopped working? I want to send him payment for a couple > of items he's holding for me. > > Thank you, > > Erik S. Klein > www.vintage-computer.com > > > From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Oct 3 17:10:00 2002 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" In-Reply-To: <000601c26b28$88b62ee0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: FYI.... Jim Willing is in Kansas... His website and email is still in Oregon... His ISP is having an outage. Although I haven't talked to Jim or the ISP (I use the ISP for other services) I'm sure the problem is being worked... Best Regards, George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > What happened??? I donated $100 a while back to the save Jim's Garage > fund..... > > > > Curt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Erik S. Klein" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:00 PM > Subject: RE: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" > > > > Jim Willing's website seems to be down and I assume his email went with > > it. > > > > Did anyone happen to copy down his mailing address from the garage sale > > page before it stopped working? I want to send him payment for a couple > > of items he's holding for me. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Erik S. Klein > > www.vintage-computer.com > > > > > > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 3 17:32:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? In-Reply-To: <3D9CA4D1.204859E2@naffnet.org.uk> References: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> <4969.4.20.168.172.1033673022.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3D9CA4D1.204859E2@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <3633.4.20.168.172.1033684426.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > If it's a gift, and the value is less that $100 then the customs section > of the > US embassy pages here in the UK imply that there is no duty to pay - > other than that the first $100 would not be subject to duty. The problem is if customs things the value is more than $100. If you buy it for $25, the value is $25, and it doesn't matter what customs thinks it is worth. From archer at topnow.com Thu Oct 3 17:33:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: 65C02 (was RE: Stuff on ebay) References: <20021003211542.949.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D9CC5F3.A20FB447@topnow.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Eric Smith wrote: > > When Rockwell licensed the CMOS 6502 from WDC, they added their bit > > manipuation instructions to it. Thus the Rockwell R65C02 has more > > instructions than the "standard" 65C02 from WDC, GTE, NCR, and others. > > Speaking of the 65C02, does anyone know if replacing the 6502 in a PET > or VIC-20 is known to trip up copy protection on any apps/games? I > know that for well-behaved code, there should be no problems. I'm > concerned about WordPro or some other pirate-fearing program trying > to be clever with undocumented op codes, and not working with a real > 65C02. There's always the possibility, but CMOS versions would be much better candidates for such perverse cleverness than the old NMOS parts. At least I vaguely recall that most if not all unimplemented instructions for the NMOS 6502 either sent the CPU careening off into the weeds or were simple duplicates of "legal" op-codes due to incomplete op-decoding. Hopefully others who know I'm full of beans can correct this if it's wrong. This is the impression I got from reading the MINI-DIS listing in The First Book of KIM (not with me at the moment), anyways. P.S.: I think 512Kx8 for a KIM-1 is pretty cool, but I haven't figured out the best TLB/MMU and cache implementation. ;) > > -ethan > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! > http://sbc.yahoo.com From spc at conman.org Thu Oct 3 17:46:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <3D9CA0A6.5030006@charter.net> from "James Rice" at Oct 03, 2002 02:55:18 PM Message-ID: <200210032247.SAA12263@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great James Rice once stated: > > I feel that the BeBox fit's that category. An orphan OS, unusual design > (dual PPC, not a Mac, PC conponent's, case color, and don't forget the > blinkin lights). The last BeBoxs won't be 10 years old until 2008. I don't think it's quite that young---I think they first came out in '95 or '96. I remember at the time that my partner (and boss) was planning on getting me one if I finished a project on time (which I didn't, but that's another story). -spc (Looked like a cool box at the time ... ) From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 3 18:05:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Stuff on ebay Message-ID: <200210032306.QAA16661@clulw009.amd.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2057697313 Ok, the price is high but this is surely a one of a kind. Dwight From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Oct 3 18:14:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? References: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> <4969.4.20.168.172.1033673022.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D9CCF71.D029C24@compsys.to> >Eric Smith wrote: > > A gentleman in Canada has some hardware that he's willing to give > > me (old computers in questionable state). Thing is, neither one of us is > > sure if there's any paperwork required to bring these boxes > > over the border. > If the equipment was originally made in USA, it's no problem. Just > tell US Customs that you're reptriating it. They may want some proof > that it's made in USA. A label stating that is best, but even just > the address of the manufacturer being in the USA may be sufficient. > > Failing that, you can just tell them that it's old scrap with no > commercial value. That's true, isn't it? > > It might help to buy the equipment from him for a nominal price rather > than get it as a gift. If you buy it (for $25, perhaps) and have > a bill of sale, the import duty would be based on the sale price. But > if it's a gift, Customs would try to determine the value and assess the > import duty based on that. > > I'm not an expert, but I've brought computer equipment into the US from > Canada twice without problems. Jerome Fine replies: While my experience has MOSTLY been in the opposite direction form the US to Canada, the few times I have sent items to the US, it has not been a problem. If you don't need to insure the shipment, then I still strongly agree that a nominal value of $ US 10 is MUCH better than zero since immediately the US customs (as is the same in Canada - all bureaucracy is really the same) will want to make an evaluation. HOWEVER, from what I understand, the value of the shipment and the insurance "tend" to correspond - although we both know that repairs are very often more than the worth of something. BUT, the shipper will not insure the merchandise for more than the declared value - of course, they are cooperating with customs, but when was that not the situation. One possible method is to say that the shipment is being returned under warranty for repair in the US where it was built. I expect that might get by most of the time, but not always. After all, if it had been sent to Canada and arrived broken, there would be a record of it being shipped in the first place. Normally, on shipments of a reasonable value, the country of origin is not questioned if stated as the US and the stuff has the name of the company which is located in the US. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jingber at ix.netcom.com Thu Oct 3 18:23:01 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Stuff on ebay In-Reply-To: <200210032306.QAA16661@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200210032306.QAA16661@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1033600983.1877.0.camel@supermicro> Added Bonus: Kevin Mitnick is personally willing to deliver the laptop anywhere in the United States, provided that the Buyer pays for travel expenses, and the U.S. Probation Department grants permission to travel. I thought he couldn't "touch" computers. Jeffrey H. Ingber (jingber@ix.netcom.com) On Thu, 2002-10-03 at 19:06, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2057697313 > > Ok, the price is high but this is surely a one of a kind. > Dwight > > > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Oct 3 18:39:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? References: <000d01c26b1b$be6a9420$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> Message-ID: <3D9CD561.1EACCDD@compsys.to> >Dan Cohoe wrote: > I usually am bringing stuff into Canada, but once I wanted to pass through > from Eastern Ontario into New York, through Syracuse, then back into Canada > at Buffalo. Problem was, I had about 20 HP 9000 series 300 machines with me > coming from Canada. The US Customs agent heard my story, looked at the HP > plate that said "Made in USA" and sent me on my way to Buffalo. > > My experience going the other way has always been that a good explanation of > what you are doing, a reasonable valuation (more than $0 even if the stuff > was a gift to you), and a look by the agent at a date sticker or an IC with > an early eighties or beyond date will convince at least a supervisor that > the goods have very little value and that the real reason you are doing this > is because of some weakness in your mental powers. Jerome Fine replies: Dan, if you see this, give me a call. Sometime in the last 3 or 4 years, I went to Detroit and picked up about 8 VT100/VT220 terminals along with a BA23 box or two - I can't really remember that long ago. In any case, the stuff was really dirty and when I went through customs in Canada, all they needed was to see the date of manufacture on the back as being in the first half of the 1980s. The trip took a whole day (Toronto => Detroit => Toronto), but the gas was really the only cost (plus the tunnel tolls). So it seemed OK at the time. But I did need to convince the guy at customs that I was more than a bit crazy in running such old computers - I think the dirt helped quite a bit. The following year I went to Cleveland and did the same thing. But the fellow that gave me the BA123 and the terminals insisted on cash - $ 10 to balance the books at the company. That actually was useful at Canadian customs as it was the actual truth. By the way, shipping into Canada is probably still very easy if the valuation or "Commercial Invoice" shows less than $ US 12 or more specifically less than $ Can 20 - in that case, the shipment is noted as being of "Low Value" and goes into Canada under "Courier Remission" - which translates as NO GST - which translates as no broker required to clear the shipment since there is nothing to collect - computer parts having no duty, but EVERYTHING STILL has GST (7%) applied when it is coming into Ontario. So a broker is really needed only to pass on the GST to the Federal Government - a rather sweet set up that UPS, in particular, takes advantage of. I image that similar set up applies in the opposite direction, but the dollar threshold might be different. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Oct 3 18:43:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Stuff on ebay References: <200210032306.QAA16661@clulw009.amd.com> <1033600983.1877.0.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <3D9CD62B.959149A2@compsys.to> >"Jeffrey H. Ingber" wrote: > Added Bonus: Kevin Mitnick is personally willing to deliver the laptop > anywhere in the United States, provided that the Buyer pays for travel > expenses, and the U.S. Probation Department grants permission to > travel. > I thought he couldn't "touch" computers. > Jeffrey H. Ingber (jingber@ix.netcom.com) > >On Thu, 2002-10-03 at 19:06, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2057697313 > > Ok, the price is high but this is surely a one of a kind. > > Dwight Jerome Fine replies: Someone else can put it into a box or he can wear gloves? Now if he can't go near a computer, how does he run the microwave? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 3 19:35:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Stuff on ebay Message-ID: One presumes his car doesn't have electronic fuel injection... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From jim at jkearney.com Thu Oct 3 19:37:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum References: <200210032306.QAA16661@clulw009.amd.com> <1033600983.1877.0.camel@supermicro> <3D9CD62B.959149A2@compsys.to> Message-ID: <043d01c26b3e$5280eac0$1301090a@jkearney.com> I just had an email exchange with someone at Intel's Museum (http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/index.htm), and they asked me if I had or knew anyone who had an actual copy of Gordon Moore's original Moore's Law article. I don't, but perhaps someone here does? They didn't say why, but I presume they want to acquire it. The exact citation is: "Cramming More Components Onto Integrated Circuits" Author: Gordon E. Moore Publication: Electronics, April 19, 1965 There is a scan (I guess from a library copy) at http://www.intel.com/research/silicon/moorespaper.pdf Jim From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Oct 3 19:44:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Stuff on ebay In-Reply-To: <1033600983.1877.0.camel@supermicro> from "Jeffrey H. Ingber" at "Oct 2, 2 07:22:59 pm" Message-ID: <200210040053.RAA16956@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I thought he couldn't "touch" computers. I'm sure he'll use gloves. If people want the almost real thing, I'll sell my T1950 for half that! Just $7,500! It's almost as good, almost! The high bidder is currently a Mr. Phukewe. I'm sure he'll pay the full obscene $15,000 it's going for right now. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- A good pun is its own reword. ---------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 3 19:44:24 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <3D9C8B8C.1060203@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > So highly customized PC's, or specialized machines (i.e. EISA bus) may > hold more interest than your standard PCI based Pentiums, which are > about as collectable as a 10 year old toaster. You spoke too soon: The Toaster Museum Foundation http://www.toaster.org > But there are some 'interesting' things out there in PC land, strange > things that never made it into mass production, like Intel P54CBT's, or > extinct operating systems like PenPoint. PenPoint is definitely something worthy of collecting and discussing. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Oct 3 19:48:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: 65C02 (was RE: Stuff on ebay) In-Reply-To: <3D9CC5F3.A20FB447@topnow.com> from Ross Archer at "Oct 3, 2 03:34:27 pm" Message-ID: <200210040058.RAA31692@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Speaking of the 65C02, does anyone know if replacing the 6502 in a PET > > or VIC-20 is known to trip up copy protection on any apps/games? I > > know that for well-behaved code, there should be no problems. I'm > > concerned about WordPro or some other pirate-fearing program trying > > to be clever with undocumented op codes, and not working with a real > > 65C02. > > There's always the possibility, but CMOS versions would be much > better candidates for such perverse cleverness than the old NMOS parts. > At least I vaguely recall that most if not all > unimplemented instructions for the NMOS 6502 either sent the > CPU careening off into the weeds or were simple duplicates of > "legal" op-codes due to incomplete op-decoding. Yes to the first, not just simple duplicates to the second. Some instructions actually combine the operations of two opcodes in one instruction (and I think in the same cycle execution time, though I need to check this), and some have totally novel behaviour. I doubt this is a big deal on the PET, but the VIC-20 may have some of the paranoid software that the original poster was worried about, and there are definitely some C64 loaders that used undocumented opcodes as part of their copy protection scheme. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. ----- From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 3 19:52:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" In-Reply-To: <000601c26b28$88b62ee0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > What happened??? I donated $100 a while back to the save Jim's Garage > fund..... The Computer Garage was saved. I guess he's just culling the superfluous to save the whole. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Oct 3 20:08:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The list is about 5.5 years old now. > > (Amazing, isn't it?) Crap. In 4.5 years we can talk about it. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Oct 3 21:19:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: 10 years Message-ID: <200210040220.WAA64268372@shell.TheWorld.com> >> I would actually like to see the "official" cutoff pushed out to 20 >> years, as 10 years just does not seem that long ago... > >We could start a second list: ClassicerCmp. Or named 'ClassicCmpLite' Megan From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Oct 3 21:24:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: 10 years Message-ID: <200210040225.WAA65173101@shell.TheWorld.com> Speaking of a C64... I know of someone who has one she wants to get rid of along with a disk drive... Contact Cesullivan@aol.com if interested... Megan From patrick at evocative.com Thu Oct 3 21:35:01 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam, Now that's what I call collectible. I really wish I still had my EO 440... :-( Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:46 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 10 years > > > On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > So highly customized PC's, or specialized machines (i.e. EISA bus) may > > hold more interest than your standard PCI based Pentiums, which are > > about as collectable as a 10 year old toaster. > > You spoke too soon: > > The Toaster Museum Foundation > http://www.toaster.org > > > But there are some 'interesting' things out there in PC land, strange > > things that never made it into mass production, like Intel P54CBT's, or > > extinct operating systems like PenPoint. > > PenPoint is definitely something worthy of collecting and discussing. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 3 22:04:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Now that's what I call collectible. I really wish I still had my EO 440... > :-( I have one ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Oct 3 22:26:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum References: <200210032306.QAA16661@clulw009.amd.com> <1033600983.1877.0.camel@supermicro> <3D9CD62B.959149A2@compsys.to> <043d01c26b3e$5280eac0$1301090a@jkearney.com> Message-ID: <3D9D0A84.FA0154BB@compsys.to> >Jim Kearney wrote: > I just had an email exchange with someone at Intel's Museum > (http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/index.htm) Jerome Fine replies: I am not sure why the information is so blatant in its stupid attempt to ignore anything but Intel hardware as far a anything that even look like a CPU chip, but I guess it is an "Intel" museum. Of course, even now, Intel, in my opinion, is so far behind from a technical point of view that is is a sad comment just to read about the products that were way behind, and still are, the excellence of other products. No question that if the Pentium 4 had been produced 10 years ago, it would have been a major accomplishment. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Oct 4 03:06:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Spectrum Issue 2 Message-ID: I have a Spectrum (issue two) with a duff power connector. Does anyone know where I can get a direct replacement connector in the UK (other than ripping it off another similar Spectrum ...). Thanks Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Oct 4 03:25:01 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: OSI disk basic disk Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146EAD@BUSH02> >> Does anyone have an image of the OSI Disk BASIC disk? > Did they actually have anything called "Disk BASIC"? When > I used OSI systems, they had two operating systems, OS-65/D > and OS-65/U (not sure of the punctuation in those). There was advertised, at least in the UK, a disk expansion (OSI 610) that included 12k disk BASIC on disk. From what I remember if you got the fully populated expansion (24k) and had the full complement of RAM on the CPU (8k) you had 19000 and something bytes free after loading the disk BASIC. > OS-65/D was what was normally found on smaller systems. > It was a pathetic excuse for an operating system. Now I've gone to the trouble of building the hardware I'd like to try some original software on it. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Oct 4 09:11:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum In-Reply-To: <3D9D0A84.FA0154BB@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3D9D5B64.4066.816BF59@localhost> Well no matter what we may think about the Intel behemoth now, one can't deny Moore's accomplishments. From his time with Shockley, the Fairchild start-up by Shockleys "the traitorist eight", and then founding Intel with Noyce and Graves. What I was surprised at, was the date of the "Electronics" issue. I didn't know they went back that far. I have about 20 issues from 80 and 83 including the massive April 80 'Special Commemortive Issue". I value them for resources more than my 80-83 Bytes. Talk about elitist ! "Subscriptions limited to professional persons with active responsability in electronics technology. No subscriptions accepted without complete identification of subscriber name, title or job function, company or organization, and product manufactured or services performed. Based on information supplied, the publishers reserve the right to reject non-qualified requests." Makes me wonder if I could be prosecuted just for having them. :^) Lawrence > >Jim Kearney wrote: > > > I just had an email exchange with someone at Intel's Museum > > (http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/index.htm) > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I am not sure why the information is so blatant in its > stupid attempt to ignore anything but Intel hardware > as far a anything that even look like a CPU chip, but > I guess it is an "Intel" museum. > > Of course, even now, Intel, in my opinion, is so far > behind from a technical point of view that is is a sad > comment just to read about the products that were > way behind, and still are, the excellence of other > products. No question that if the Pentium 4 had been > produced 10 years ago, it would have been a major > accomplishment. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Oct 4 09:13:15 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D9D5B64.30599.816BF8B@localhost> Am I missing something here ? I have a SCSI 1 gig Fujitsu model m2266sa hard drive that I've always considered a FH since it's the same dimensions (just over 3.5") as the FH floppy in the original IBM PC. Or does the reference here to 3.5" relate, like 5 1/4, to fdd size . Lawrence > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Jay West wrote: > > > > > > > Seagate ST12400N, definitely known to be working. I believe it's a 1gb > > > > > > Actually, it's 2G: > > > > > > ST - seagate > > > 1 - 3.5" > > > 2400 - 2.4GB > > > N - Narrow scsi > > > > In reality, it is a 3.5" half-high, SCSI-2 FAST of 2400MB capacity. > > Half-high being about 1.6" tall. > > I've seen lots of companies call these drives full height, while floppy > drives and such were considered half height. Maybe different folks refer > to the height differently. The actual height of these drives should be > right about 1.63". > > -Toth > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Oct 4 09:13:24 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? In-Reply-To: <000d01c26b1b$be6a9420$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> References: <4969.4.20.168.172.1033673022.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D9D5B64.4428.816BEDC@localhost> I ship and receive goods all the time from here in Canada. Usually there is no problem, except occasionally getting dinged on this end for GST (goods and services tax). Since NAFTA (which I HATE generally), there is no duty on electronics to my knowledge. It is unecessary to disable the equipment nor does it matter where it was manufactured. One should avoid customs brokers like a plague and also UPS which charges a brokerage fee. The customs forms are quite simple and more designed to prevent entry for unauthorized goods. Considering how easy it is I'm always annoyed with the USAers who won't ship to Canada. This is especially prevalent among southerners who seem to live in some insular world and ignore a market of 30 millian people. Don't think so ? Check ship-to's on E-Pay. If the amount of computers is considerable I would simply contact US customs to find out the steps to be taken. A former contributer to the list, IIRC pdp8.com (can't remember his name) bought out the leftover stock when DEC shut down Maynard. He had something like 5 truckloads that he brought up to Toronto in U-Haul trucks. I got in contact with him and eagerly offered to supplement his crew of family and friends, but was turned down. :^( :^(( The Toronto collectors group I helped start was to do a tour of his operation but fell apart before it occurred. He seemed to be a nice guy and could possibly offer valid advice. In checking his site I see that it is now in Niagara Falls. Don't know whether he is still the owner but a phone call wouldn't hurt. PDP8.COM  1477896 Ontario Limited  5444 Victoria Ave.  Niagara Falls, ON L2G 3L2  Canada  (905) 468-4597  Lawrence > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Eric Smith > > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:24 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? > > > > > > > A gentleman in Canada has some hardware that he's willing to give > > > me (old computers in questionable state). Thing is, neither > > one of us is > > > sure if there's any paperwork required to bring these boxes > > > over the border. > > ........Eric Smith said: > > > > If the equipment was originally made in USA, it's no problem. Just > > tell US Customs that you're reptriating it. They may want some proof > > that it's made in USA. A label stating that is best, but even just > > the address of the manufacturer being in the USA may be sufficient. > > > > Failing that, you can just tell them that it's old scrap with no > > commercial value. That's true, isn't it? > > > > It might help to buy the equipment from him for a nominal price rather > > than get it as a gift. If you buy it (for $25, perhaps) and have > > a bill of sale, the import duty would be based on the sale price. But > > if it's a gift, Customs would try to determine the value and > > assess the > > import duty based on that. > > > > I'm not an expert, but I've brought computer equipment into > > the US from > > Canada twice without problems. > > > > I usually am bringing stuff into Canada, but once I wanted to pass through > from Eastern Ontario into New York, through Syracuse, then back into Canada at > Buffalo. Problem was, I had about 20 HP 9000 series 300 machines with me coming > from Canada. The US Customs agent heard my story, looked at the HP plate that > said "Made in USA" and sent me on my way to Buffalo. > > My experience going the other way has always been that a good explanation of > what you are doing, a reasonable valuation (more than $0 even if the stuff was a > gift to you), and a look by the agent at a date sticker or an IC with an early > eighties or beyond date will convince at least a supervisor that the goods have > very little value and that the real reason you are doing this is because of some > weakness in your mental powers. > > Dan Cohoe > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jim at jkearney.com Fri Oct 4 10:03:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum References: <200210032306.QAA16661@clulw009.amd.com> <1033600983.1877.0.camel@supermicro> <3D9CD62B.959149A2@compsys.to> <043d01c26b3e$5280eac0$1301090a@jkearney.com> <3D9D0A84.FA0154BB@compsys.to> Message-ID: <004001c26bb7$53eeeeb0$1301090a@jkearney.com> > I am not sure why the information is so blatant in its > stupid attempt to ignore anything but Intel hardware > as far a anything that even look like a CPU chip, but > I guess it is an "Intel" museum. > > Of course, even now, Intel, in my opinion, is so far > behind from a technical point of view that is is a sad > comment just to read about the products that were > way behind, and still are, the excellence of other > products. No question that if the Pentium 4 had been > produced 10 years ago, it would have been a major > accomplishment. Well, of course it's a branch of the corporate PR department, what did you expect? But the Intel of the 1969-1979 era was a dynamic and innovative company. Look at the 3101, 1101, 4004, 8008, 1702, 2102, 8080, etc. All the other companies were playing catch-up. The Moore article is indepent of Intel anyway, it was written when he was at Fairchild before Intel was even founded. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 4 10:25:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: 10 years Message-ID: ClassicCmpLite? Tastes great, less filling? heh _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Oct 4 10:29:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Looking for 9trk drive Message-ID: I am in the market for a DEC TE16 or Kennedy 9300 working drive with Unibus formatter card and cables. I don't have much to trade, but will pay reasonable bux and also pay to have it shipped , or pick up in the NorCal/Oregon/NorNevada areas. This is for an 11/44 system. I have an M4 Data streamer, a very nice SCSI/Pertec device, works well, quiet - but it lacks the 'cachet', shall we say, of watching those reels go 'round. Cheers and Thanks! John From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Oct 4 10:30:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum In-Reply-To: <3D9D5B64.4066.816BF59@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Well no matter what we may think about the Intel behemoth now, one can't > deny Moore's accomplishments. From his time with Shockley, the Fairchild > start-up by Shockleys "the traitorist eight", and then founding Intel with > Noyce and Graves. > > What I was surprised at, was the date of the "Electronics" issue. I didn't > know they went back that far. I have about 20 issues from 80 and 83 including > the massive April 80 'Special Commemortive Issue". I value them for > resources more than my 80-83 Bytes. > > Talk about elitist ! > "Subscriptions limited to professional persons with active responsability in > electronics technology. No subscriptions accepted without complete > identification of subscriber name, title or job function, company or > organization, and product manufactured or services performed. Based on > information supplied, the publishers reserve the right to reject non-qualified > requests." > > Makes me wonder if I could be prosecuted just for having them. :^) Actually they just said that to make their advertisers happy. I had a subscripion when I was ~15 (a _long_ _long_ time ago) PCW From jss at subatomix.com Fri Oct 4 10:45:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" In-Reply-To: <20021001170427.J52018-100000@agora.rdrop.com> References: <20021001170427.J52018-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <9291549330.20021004104302@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, James Willing wrote: > The offering list and details can be found at: > > http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/Gsale I think it's working now. -- Jeffrey Sharp From dundas at caltech.edu Fri Oct 4 11:06:01 2002 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: RD53 repair Message-ID: I know Allison posted on this several years ago, but I couldn't find a collection of instructions. Maybe someone has put this together in a "cookbook." I have several RD53s that I'd like to get data off of. I opened one up as described in previous posts. However it's not obvious to my eyes where the failed rubber bumper is. Do any of you have any detailed instructions you can send or point me to regarding repairing these drives? Thanks for any help. John --------------------------------------------------------- John A. Dundas III Director, Information Technology Services, Caltech Mail Code: 014-81, Pasadena, CA 91125-8100 Phone: 626.395.3392 FAX: 626.449.6973 From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 4 11:07:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum References: <200210032306.QAA16661@clulw009.amd.com> <1033600983.1877.0.camel@supermicro> <3D9CD62B.959149A2@compsys.to> <043d01c26b3e$5280eac0$1301090a@jkearney.com> <3D9D0A84.FA0154BB@compsys.to> Message-ID: <002d01c26bc0$35c6a960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Intel, in my opinion, is so far behind from > a technical point of view that is is a sad... I regard some things about Intel pretty highly, like their managers. No-one seems to be a total offence like Gates/Ballmer/etc. do to me. On the contrary, reading Andy Groves' philosophy (in the SJ Mercury news) was a real pleasure. However, in that Intel has to service Microsoft in keeping its half of the monopoly going, that's where all the compromises have to be made. I really think they have great potential otherwise. BTW I think Moore's law is totally on point, for the whole industry. John A. From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 4 11:11:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum In-Reply-To: <004001c26bb7$53eeeeb0$1301090a@jkearney.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Jim Kearney wrote: > But the Intel of the 1969-1979 era was a dynamic and innovative company. > Look at the 3101, 1101, 4004, 8008, 1702, 2102, 8080, etc. All the other > companies were playing catch-up. A significant point to make: With regards to the 4004, it wasn't terrifically innovative. Many people who designed LSI circuits of the era considered a "processor on a chip" the next logical step. By the time Intel did it the technology was feasible enough to do so without requiring a mammoth effort (3 people did it). The real envelope pushers were Ray Holt with the CADC (20-bit serial architecture) circa 1969-1970 and Four Phase Systems with their AL-1 (8-bit parallel architecture) circa 1968-1969. Intel's effort was actually mediocre compared to what was possible at the time of the 4004's development. There wasn't really any practical application for the CPU-on-a-chip (until Busicom decided that was the architecture they wanted for their calculators) and so there was no quick rush to develop one when it became possible. TI was right on the heels of Intel with their TMS1000. Other companies quickly followed with microprocessors the following year, that were far more powerful than anything Intel had (AMI for one). So to say all the other companies were playing catch-up is misleading. It could be argued that once the market for such a chip was proven by Intel, other companies quickly jumped on the bandwagon. A good website to reference: http://www.datamath.org/Story/Intel.htm > The Moore article is indepent of Intel anyway, it was written when he > was at Fairchild before Intel was even founded. Moore's Law is definitely significant as it became a self-fulfilling prophecy that drove the computer industry to try to obey it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jim at jkearney.com Fri Oct 4 12:02:42 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum References: Message-ID: <006c01c26bc7$c0740c90$1301090a@jkearney.com> > With regards to the 4004, it wasn't terrifically innovative. Many people You're right, "innovative" was not the best choice of words. "Firsts" might have been better. Clearly (and particularly in the memory area) they were doing something right, because they set the standards for almost all the major devices of the early-mid 70s. I really wasn't trying to boost Intel, but point out that the earlier poster's dissing of Intel didn't really apply to the Moore era company. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Oct 4 12:04:01 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021002112030.043403b0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <20021004100146.G18179-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Greetings; On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Tony Eros wrote: > Jim - > > I couldn't reach your web site to get your address. Could you drop me a > note with it so I can get the bucks out to you? Yeah, the net seems to be having a bad week... James Willing The Computer Garage P.O. Box 242 Yates Center, KS. 66783-0242 Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Oct 4 12:04:11 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - "Garage Sale" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021004100331.C18179-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Greetings; On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > > The offering list and details can be found at: > > > > http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/Gsale > > > > I don't think it's me, but the web server is not responding... Yeah, the net seems to be having a bad week. Looks like its back now. Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From patrick at evocative.com Fri Oct 4 12:34:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > Now that's what I call collectible. I really wish I still had > my EO 440... > > :-( > > I have one ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Very cool... is it still working? I'd love to see pix; many memories. I worked for Go shortly before they merged back together with Eo and then... "went". --Patrick From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Oct 4 13:07:01 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Oops... Message-ID: <20021004110728.Y43927-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Sorry gang, email/web site just came back on line (net seems to be having a bad week) and in trying to respond to some inquiries I see that the mailer responded back to the list. My bad. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 4 13:09:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Looking for 9trk drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2928.4.20.168.172.1033754991.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I am in the market for a DEC TE16 or Kennedy 9300 working drive with > Unibus formatter card and cables. [...] > This is for an 11/44 system. The TE16 is a Massbus drive, so you would need an RH11 Massbus adapter to use it. I've got s spare TE16, but I don't have a spare RH11. Let me know if you want the TE16. I've got some other tape drives that might be available, including a few Kennedy 9100s, but no 9300. Eric From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Oct 4 14:38:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Geek Wives, was ->RE: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: <4793.4.20.168.172.1033674721.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC4B@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC4B@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021004123756.03c7b7c0@mail.zipcon.net> At 12:52 PM 10/3/02 -0700, you wrote: >Also, the third step of your algorithm seems to be quite >difficult to achieve. not as hard to #define WIFE GEEK_WIFE as you'd think. I brought my wife over to the geek side a few years back, starting with getting her started on her own web site :) now she has a Apex switchbox and 3 machines at her desk :) From Mzthompson at aol.com Fri Oct 4 15:17:00 2002 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Earlier Acquistions Message-ID: I went into the local PC reseller's shop just over a month ago. He had gotten in a big mess of machines which included some Apple stuff. I managed to talk him out of three PowerMacs (not quite 10 years old yet) for 10 bucks each. The models were 7200/120 (with a 1.2 gb HDD), 7200/90, and a 7100/66. These weren't for me though and they are gone now. A friend of mine took them for his daughter's private church school. If it were not for his efforts they probably wouldn't even have that first machine. These were the machines only, no monitors, kybds, mice, etc. That has been partially rectified. See my next posting. Mike From Mzthompson at aol.com Fri Oct 4 15:17:41 2002 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:45 2005 Subject: Hamfest: Bedford Indiana Message-ID: <17a.fd212c7.2acf519a@aol.com> As mentioned in an earlier posting, there is a hamfest this weekend. It is at Bedford Indiana. It is not usually a big hamfest, but I seem to find better goodies there than some of the bigger events. It is also a reunion of sorts for a group of folks from all over Indiana and I get to see old friends from Civil Air Patrol days and the like. In addition to the Intel PC stuff mentioned in an earlier posting, I will have some other computer stuff. Under the heading of DEC will be some keyboards, mice (you awake Ethan), MMJ cables & adapters, as well as some free manuals (which I won't bring back). Also hope to take some spare NeXT parts. If you are interested in going, see: http://www.hoosierhillshamfest.org for a map, directions and GPS info. If you mention you are a Classiccmp'er, I'll give you a good discount and maybe even a free goodie or two. Mike KA9JWZ From Mzthompson at aol.com Fri Oct 4 15:17:50 2002 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Recent Acquistions (Intel) Message-ID: <2d.2461aef3.2acf5198@aol.com> After I got the PowerMacs, I went back with an idea. Since he considers 486's and lower to be useless I made a suggestion. I would tear them down to cards, memory, drives, cables, etc. and I would take the stuff to an upcoming hamfest (see next posting) and sell it cheap. He agreed and we decided on a 50-50 split and I got 'skimming' rights to the machines as I tear them down to cover my time. We also decided to recycle the cases and motherboards to keep them out of the landfill. So after a few afternoons I got more PC stuff piled around here than even I can tolerate. Let me just say that I am not so naive as to believe that the majority of this mess will sell. I suspect the shop owner thinks otherwise. But who knows, someone might walk up and see that box full of hundreds of SIMMS and make me an offer that I just can't refuse. During those afternoons, he would come back and offer to give me this and that. I think he was happy to just be able to walk into the store room and see the empty space grow. Out of all his offers was a monitor for a PowerMac that had been recently uncovered. The thing that probably made all of this worth it is what I call the Borland Bonanza. Among all the machines were boxes of software. I got about two dozen sets of disks in unopened plastic wrap. It includes Paradox, dbase, Turbo C++, Turbo Pascal, ObjectVision, Delphi, etc. For some products there is both DOS and Windoze versions. Given that it is older versions, I suppose that it is available on their web site. Still there is something to be said for having the original disks. Mike From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 4 15:48:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Hamfest: Bedford Indiana In-Reply-To: <17a.fd212c7.2acf519a@aol.com> Message-ID: <20021004204910.85267.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > As mentioned in an earlier posting, there is a hamfest this weekend. It > is at Bedford Indiana... > > Under the heading of DEC will be some keyboards, mice (you awake > Ethan)... I'm awake but have other plans this weekend, far from Indiana. :-( Thanks for thinking of me. -ethan N8TVD __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Oct 4 17:38:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years References: Message-ID: <3D9E1913.5080205@tiac.net> People actually remember Penpoint! I'm afraid I had a small hand in 'killing' Penpoint. Back when I worked at NEC, we had done a lot of work on a tablet-based portable PC called a VersaPad. The VersaPad was a fairly slick little 486SX based machine with a paper-white mono VGA display and a MicroTouch digitizer. It used an active, RF-linked 'pen' stylus with mouse-like buttons, etc. You had your choice of operating systems, Microsoft's Windows for Pen Computing, a hacked up version of Windows 3.11, or Go's Penpoint, a strange OS that was centered around the idea of an electronic book. I was sent from NEC to Go's offices, along with a BIOS engineer, to assist Go Inc. in their efforts to port Penpoint for the VersaPad. Given this assignement, I sat down with a prototype and a stack of PenPoint documentation. As strange as Penpoint was (to me) at the time, I found it easy to learn despite the gesture-recognisers inability to deal with my nearly unreadable handwriting style. But then things got ugly. The VersaPad had 2 PCMCIA slots, and Penpoint supported an array of smart card, flash and SRAM cards. Penpoint had absolutley no concept of a physical volume or device name, so when you inserted a PCMCIA card, a small book-like icon appeared on a GUI 'shelf'. Apparently the VersaPad was the only Penpoint machine that supported 2 PCMCIA slots, something Go had never forseen in their low-level O/S design. This was a feature thought to be critical for a major customer who had asked NEC to develop the strange little VersaPad machine in the first place. Turns out I could pop a card into slot 0, and get its icon as normal. I could then pop a second card into slot 1 and see another 'book' icon appear. But when I removed the first card and its icon disappeared, the identical icon for the card in slot 0 slid down the 'shelf' into the position that had held the icon for the card I'd just removed. Re-inserting the card in slot 0 now generated an icon on the OPPOSITE side of the icon for the slot 1 card, so there was no way to relate either PCMCIA card icon to either physical slot, as the GUI presentation depended on the order of insertion. The way this OS worked, with 2 PCMCIA slots, you were sure to delete files from the wrong physical volume, or not know which physical bit of media actually held your data. It was nasty. When this bug was replicated by the NEC BIOS enginer on the trip with me, we reported this bizzare bug to Go's team. Later that day, 90% of the engineers we were sent to support were called into 'urgent' meetings. In the end, Go's assesement was that Penpoint would have to be fundementally re-engineered to fix this issue. The changes needed would be to dramatic that the project was canceled. This was a bug they just could not fix, and without the ability to use a PCMCIA modem and data-card, NEC's customer for the VersaPad would be forced to abandon the Penpoint application and retool for a Windows for Pen Computing application. The result of this, and some really major issues with early Ni-MHD battery cells was enough to kill the complete VersaPad project. A few VersaPad's still exist, and I probably even have a copy of Penpoint, a tragically flawed Penpoint mind you, for these rare beasts. I had a small stack of VersaPads, and recently sold some at the MIT flea-market to people wanting to use them as controllers for mobile robots. If there is any real interest, I'll go dig one out and see if one of the 2 remaining machines has Penpoint still installed. Anyway, I was not to happy Penpoint went away. I think I would prefer Penpoint as an O/S for my MobilePro 450 over Windows CE, but it has been a long time since I've used either one. Say, how old is a NEC MobilePro anyway? Hmm, nope, thats off-topic! Patrick Rigney wrote: >>On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: >> >>>Now that's what I call collectible. I really wish I still had >>> >>my EO 440... >> >>>:-( >>> >>I have one ;) >> >>Sellam Ismail Vintage >> > >Very cool... is it still working? I'd love to see pix; many memories. I >worked for Go shortly before they merged back together with Eo and then... >"went". --Patrick > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021004/1905d185/attachment.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Oct 4 17:43:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: New finds on Thursday At the Thrift's Message-ID: <00ca01c26bf7$84353990$93000240@oemcomputer> Got a digital DECstation 5000/240 $6.95 plus tax no keyboard, mouse or monitor with it. A dca IRMA Key/3270 keyboard in excellent shape. A dtk DLT-3311 laptop for $8 no charger with it so not able to test it yet. Apple mono monitor A2M2010 with cable. A DeLorme TripMate Hyperformance GPS unit for laptop missing software and manual, was free. A TI Passport Flight Computer was free. SyQuest SyJet 1.5 GB internal SCSI cartridge unit was $1.21 and I found one cartridge for it (the lady let me have it for 60 cents), and I also found the install 3.5 FD for it at a cost of 75 cents. Got some game cartridges for the NES, SNS, Sega CD, and some controllers for PS1 console. Also got several mousepads for that collection and some books/manuals. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Oct 4 18:04:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years Message-ID: <200210042305.QAA17122@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Bob Just thought I'd let you know that this last message was sent with an html attachment. You shouldn't sent html to news groups. Dwight From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Oct 4 18:21:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Excelan EXOS 8000S ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC6C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi all ! While reading in the *pile* of magtapes (on my left side; rightside for the viewers ;-) I found a tape which doesn't look very familiar to me: Excelan EXOS 8000-0101S TCP/IP NETWORK SOFTWARE SOURCE PRODUCT FOR OEM DEVELOPMENT PN: 4408000-0101S REL: 3.3Zv7 It has three more labels, all of which warn about it's contents being proprietary, confidential, yadda yadda. The usual :) Question: what is this? Does anyone know, or remember, what the EXOS 8000S was? The contents (2.3MB or so) look like a UNIX dist of some kind, with UNIX shell scripts for installation... the rest is probably a compressed file with the sources. Any ideas? Thx, TapeMa$ter Fred From jim at jkearney.com Fri Oct 4 18:25:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: New finds on Thursday At the Thrift's References: <00ca01c26bf7$84353990$93000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <002301c26bfd$76bc1210$1301090a@jkearney.com> > A DeLorme TripMate Hyperformance GPS unit for laptop missing software and > manual, was free. It doesn't come with any software. It works with their Street Atlas and other mapping software, but in reality once you initialize it right it just spits out coordinates over its serial cable. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Oct 4 18:58:01 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: New finds on Thursday At the Thrift's References: <00ca01c26bf7$84353990$93000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3D9E2A81.80FCD8D4@gifford.co.uk> Keys wrote: > Got a digital DECstation 5000/240 $6.95 plus tax no keyboard, mouse or > monitor with it. I got one of those a few weeks ago, for free. I also have no mouse or keyboard, but I do know the pinout of the special DEC cable for them. It's the same as the cable for the DEC 3000/600, which is an Alpha machine (the 5000 is a MIPS box). If you want to make up a cable, you'll need an LK201 keyboard (or an LK401) and a VSXXX-AA mouse (or similar "round" mouse). My machine runs NetBSD just fine. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Oct 4 19:15:01 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years References: <3D9E1913.5080205@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3D9E2E68.2B28F2A5@gifford.co.uk> Bob Shannon wrote: > You had your choice of operating systems, Microsoft's Windows for > Pen Computing, I have a Samsung "tablet" PC that runs this little-known version of Windows. I think it's from 1993, so nearly on-topic. I used it a year or two ago to show my students some alternative interface designs. It had a configuration option for landscape or portrait display, although some applications failed when in portrait mode. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From patrick at evocative.com Fri Oct 4 19:35:01 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years In-Reply-To: <3D9E1913.5080205@tiac.net> Message-ID: Bob, Great story. But, I don't think you can take credit for even a small part in killing PenPoint. What really killed it, in my opinion (and c'mon, dish out the flames all you lurkers out there, I'm ready for ya), was the engineering team itself. PenPoint's fatal flaw was that its development was like some kind of psychotic symphony, with too many conductors, and musicians working from different sheet music or ignoring the music altogether. The engineers couldn't stop engineering, and often had conflicting goals and marching orders, and for the most part, engineering management didn't seem to be able to get their hands around it, despite some really good people giving it their best. Even late in "release" cycles there would be major internal subsystems thrown into the round file and rewritten (killing one bug and injecting who knows how many others, and sometimes dropping requirements of other subsystems). The "90%" meeting you referred to was classic Go... get everybody in one room, twenty, thirty, or more, and try to get them to agree. As time droned on, the cost of development steadily climbed, cash slipped away, and the end came with just a slight push from AT&T. Go had great engineers, but in the absence of sufficient discipline and process, they made themselves the poster children for the "herding cats" analogy so often heard in reference to software project management. My stint there was short. My third week at the company, there was a 50% layoff. I was spared, for reasons unknown; I should have been among the first to go. I lasted about five months, and then the rumors began that AT&T was killing the Hobbit, the processor on which the 440 and 880 were based. Fatal, no money to retool. I was outta there, just weeks before the doors closed. I was responsible for GoMail (the modem-based email link/application), and GoConnect (a LapLink-like PC bridge that presented your desktop PC's files in the book metaphor in PenPoint). Fun stuff, but we also ran into our deep-system problems (remember the 63-character pathname limit? PenPoint borrowed heavily from ancient MS-DOS, internally). PenPoint (and its applications) were cool beyond belief, truly "killer apps". Too bad it didn't last. It would really be great on today's hardware... My 2p, Patrick -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 3:41 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years People actually remember Penpoint! I'm afraid I had a small hand in 'killing' Penpoint. Back when I worked at NEC, we had done a lot of work on a tablet-based portable PC called a VersaPad. The VersaPad was a fairly slick little 486SX based machine with a paper-white mono VGA display and a MicroTouch digitizer. It used an active, RF-linked 'pen' stylus with mouse-like buttons, etc. You had your choice of operating systems, Microsoft's Windows for Pen Computing, a hacked up version of Windows 3.11, or Go's Penpoint, a strange OS that was centered around the idea of an electronic book. I was sent from NEC to Go's offices, along with a BIOS engineer, to assist Go Inc. in their efforts to port Penpoint for the VersaPad. Given this assignement, I sat down with a prototype and a stack of PenPoint documentation. As strange as Penpoint was (to me) at the time, I found it easy to learn despite the gesture-recognisers inability to deal with my nearly unreadable handwriting style. But then things got ugly. The VersaPad had 2 PCMCIA slots, and Penpoint supported an array of smart card, flash and SRAM cards. Penpoint had absolutley no concept of a physical volume or device name, so when you inserted a PCMCIA card, a small book-like icon appeared on a GUI 'shelf'. Apparently the VersaPad was the only Penpoint machine that supported 2 PCMCIA slots, something Go had never forseen in their low-level O/S design. This was a feature thought to be critical for a major customer who had asked NEC to develop the strange little VersaPad machine in the first place. Turns out I could pop a card into slot 0, and get its icon as normal. I could then pop a second card into slot 1 and see another 'book' icon appear. But when I removed the first card and its icon disappeared, the identical icon for the card in slot 0 slid down the 'shelf' into the position that had held the icon for the card I'd just removed. Re-inserting the card in slot 0 now generated an icon on the OPPOSITE side of the icon for the slot 1 card, so there was no way to relate either PCMCIA card icon to either physical slot, as the GUI presentation depended on the order of insertion. The way this OS worked, with 2 PCMCIA slots, you were sure to delete files from the wrong physical volume, or not know which physical bit of media actually held your data. It was nasty. When this bug was replicated by the NEC BIOS enginer on the trip with me, we reported this bizzare bug to Go's team. Later that day, 90% of the engineers we were sent to support were called into 'urgent' meetings. In the end, Go's assesement was that Penpoint would have to be fundementally re-engineered to fix this issue. The changes needed would be to dramatic that the project was canceled. This was a bug they just could not fix, and without the ability to use a PCMCIA modem and data-card, NEC's customer for the VersaPad would be forced to abandon the Penpoint application and retool for a Windows for Pen Computing application. The result of this, and some really major issues with early Ni-MHD battery cells was enough to kill the complete VersaPad project. A few VersaPad's still exist, and I probably even have a copy of Penpoint, a tragically flawed Penpoint mind you, for these rare beasts. I had a small stack of VersaPads, and recently sold some at the MIT flea-market to people wanting to use them as controllers for mobile robots. If there is any real interest, I'll go dig one out and see if one of the 2 remaining machines has Penpoint still installed. Anyway, I was not to happy Penpoint went away. I think I would prefer Penpoint as an O/S for my MobilePro 450 over Windows CE, but it has been a long time since I've used either one. Say, how old is a NEC MobilePro anyway? Hmm, nope, thats off-topic! Patrick Rigney wrote: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: Now that's what I call collectible. I really wish I still had my EO 440... :-( I have one ;)Sellam Ismail Vintage Very cool... is it still working? I'd love to see pix; many memories. Iworked for Go shortly before they merged back together with Eo and then..."went". --Patrick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021004/bfb79b07/attachment.html From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 4 20:48:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > I have one ;) > > Very cool... is it still working? I'd love to see pix; many memories. I > worked for Go shortly before they merged back together with Eo and then... > "went". --Patrick Yes, it still works. It's basically complete in the original box. I can try to take a picture at some point, but I'm sure you can dig something up on the web. So were you around to observe all the Microsoft trickery and shenanigans that led to them basically stealing PenPoint from under your noses? Jerry Kaplan's book _Startup_ was a great read. But from what I heard, the VCs basically considered Jerry a boob after the whole Go fiasco. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 4 21:08:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years In-Reply-To: <3D9E1913.5080205@tiac.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021004220753.0edf58aa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bob, Is this machine related to the pen top Fujitsu computer? I have one but haven't used it in a while. The dammed batteries are about worthless in it, they go dead in a few days even with the machine off. Anyway mine has two (IIRC) PCMCIA slots and runs the pen version of Win 3.1. It's actually a pretty neat machine, you can detach the keyboard completely and run everything via the pen. Also it has SRAM for memory so you can turn it off then turn it back on and everything is exactly the way that you left it. I THINK I remember reading that this machine would support PenPoint but I've never seen a copy of it. Joe At 06:41 PM 10/4/02 -0400, you wrote: >People actually remember Penpoint! > >I'm afraid I had a small hand in 'killing' Penpoint. > >Back when I worked at NEC, we had done a lot of work on a tablet-based >portable PC called >a VersaPad. The VersaPad was a fairly slick little 486SX based machine >with a paper-white >mono VGA display and a MicroTouch digitizer. It used an active, >RF-linked 'pen' stylus with >mouse-like buttons, etc. > >You had your choice of operating systems, Microsoft's Windows for Pen >Computing, a hacked >up version of Windows 3.11, or Go's Penpoint, a strange OS that was >centered around the idea of >an electronic book. > >I was sent from NEC to Go's offices, along with a BIOS engineer, to >assist Go Inc. in their efforts >to port Penpoint for the VersaPad. Given this assignement, I sat down >with a prototype and a stack >of PenPoint documentation. As strange as Penpoint was (to me) at the >time, I found it easy to learn >despite the gesture-recognisers inability to deal with my nearly >unreadable handwriting style. > >But then things got ugly. > >The VersaPad had 2 PCMCIA slots, and Penpoint supported an array of >smart card, flash and SRAM >cards. Penpoint had absolutley no concept of a physical volume or >device name, so when you inserted >a PCMCIA card, a small book-like icon appeared on a GUI 'shelf'. > >Apparently the VersaPad was the only Penpoint machine that supported 2 >PCMCIA slots, something Go >had never forseen in their low-level O/S design. This was a feature >thought to be critical for a major customer >who had asked NEC to develop the strange little VersaPad machine in the >first place. > >Turns out I could pop a card into slot 0, and get its icon as normal. I >could then pop a second card into slot >1 and see another 'book' icon appear. But when I removed the first card >and its icon disappeared, the identical >icon for the card in slot 0 slid down the 'shelf' into the position that >had held the icon for the card I'd just removed. > >Re-inserting the card in slot 0 now generated an icon on the OPPOSITE >side of the icon for the slot 1 card, so >there was no way to relate either PCMCIA card icon to either physical >slot, as the GUI presentation depended >on the order of insertion. The way this OS worked, with 2 PCMCIA slots, >you were sure to delete files from >the wrong physical volume, or not know which physical bit of media >actually held your data. It was nasty. > >When this bug was replicated by the NEC BIOS enginer on the trip with >me, we reported this bizzare bug to Go's team. >Later that day, 90% of the engineers we were sent to support were called >into 'urgent' meetings. > >In the end, Go's assesement was that Penpoint would have to be >fundementally re-engineered to fix this issue. The changes needed would >be to dramatic that the project was canceled. This was a bug they just >could not fix, and >without the ability to use a PCMCIA modem and data-card, NEC's customer >for the VersaPad would be forced to abandon the Penpoint application and >retool for a Windows for Pen Computing application. The result of this, >and some really major issues with early Ni-MHD battery cells was enough >to kill the complete VersaPad project. > >A few VersaPad's still exist, and I probably even have a copy of >Penpoint, a tragically flawed Penpoint mind you, for these rare beasts. > I had a small stack of VersaPads, and recently sold some at the MIT >flea-market to people wanting to use them as controllers for mobile >robots. > >If there is any real interest, I'll go dig one out and see if one of the >2 remaining machines has Penpoint still installed. > >Anyway, I was not to happy Penpoint went away. I think I would prefer >Penpoint as an O/S for my MobilePro 450 over Windows CE, but it has been >a long time since I've used either one. > >Say, how old is a NEC MobilePro anyway? Hmm, nope, thats off-topic! > >Patrick Rigney wrote: > >>>On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: >>> >>>>Now that's what I call collectible. I really wish I still had >>>> >>>my EO 440... >>> >>>>:-( >>>> >>>I have one ;) >>> >>>Sellam Ismail Vintage >>> >> >>Very cool... is it still working? I'd love to see pix; many memories. I >>worked for Go shortly before they merged back together with Eo and then... >>"went". --Patrick >> >> >> > > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\Penpoint.htm" > From cbajpai at attbi.com Fri Oct 4 22:05:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years In-Reply-To: <3D9E1913.5080205@tiac.net> Message-ID: <000201c26c1c$20ad2f20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Hey Bob.I've got 2 prototype (working) NEC VersaPads (they actually say NEC Autograph on them). It's was a slick machine, our company SystemSoft was developing the PCMCIA for NEC. Not to be critical 10 years later, but the NEC VersaPad a lousy implementation of PCMCIA (hot swapping primarily), but it could have been our early engineering samples. The other machine from that era that impressed me was the NCR 3125. http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/ncr_3125/ Out of all the pen machine built in 1992-1994, I think the 3125 or the AT&T Safari machine were the biggest sellers (not that pen machines were big sellers). I never realized the VersaPad was never released..or that PenPoint ran on it. I would love to try it though. After GO went under I really regret (now) throwing out the PenPoint SDK, documentation, diskettes etc. I've an IBM pen computer that runs PenPoint and I really think it was much better then Windows for Pen Computing by far. I've always wanted a Momenta pen system - anyone have one? Momenta burned through $40M in VC money.until the dotcom era, that was the biggest disaster that VCs ever had. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 6:41 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years People actually remember Penpoint! I'm afraid I had a small hand in 'killing' Penpoint. Back when I worked at NEC, we had done a lot of work on a tablet-based portable PC called a VersaPad. The VersaPad was a fairly slick little 486SX based machine with a paper-white mono VGA display and a MicroTouch digitizer. It used an active, RF-linked 'pen' stylus with mouse-like buttons, etc. You had your choice of operating systems, Microsoft's Windows for Pen Computing, a hacked up version of Windows 3.11, or Go's Penpoint, a strange OS that was centered around the idea of an electronic book. I was sent from NEC to Go's offices, along with a BIOS engineer, to assist Go Inc. in their efforts to port Penpoint for the VersaPad. Given this assignement, I sat down with a prototype and a stack of PenPoint documentation. As strange as Penpoint was (to me) at the time, I found it easy to learn despite the gesture-recognisers inability to deal with my nearly unreadable handwriting style. But then things got ugly. The VersaPad had 2 PCMCIA slots, and Penpoint supported an array of smart card, flash and SRAM cards. Penpoint had absolutley no concept of a physical volume or device name, so when you inserted a PCMCIA card, a small book-like icon appeared on a GUI 'shelf'. Apparently the VersaPad was the only Penpoint machine that supported 2 PCMCIA slots, something Go had never forseen in their low-level O/S design. This was a feature thought to be critical for a major customer who had asked NEC to develop the strange little VersaPad machine in the first place. Turns out I could pop a card into slot 0, and get its icon as normal. I could then pop a second card into slot 1 and see another 'book' icon appear. But when I removed the first card and its icon disappeared, the identical icon for the card in slot 0 slid down the 'shelf' into the position that had held the icon for the card I'd just removed. Re-inserting the card in slot 0 now generated an icon on the OPPOSITE side of the icon for the slot 1 card, so there was no way to relate either PCMCIA card icon to either physical slot, as the GUI presentation depended on the order of insertion. The way this OS worked, with 2 PCMCIA slots, you were sure to delete files from the wrong physical volume, or not know which physical bit of media actually held your data. It was nasty. When this bug was replicated by the NEC BIOS enginer on the trip with me, we reported this bizzare bug to Go's team. Later that day, 90% of the engineers we were sent to support were called into 'urgent' meetings. In the end, Go's assesement was that Penpoint would have to be fundementally re-engineered to fix this issue. The changes needed would be to dramatic that the project was canceled. This was a bug they just could not fix, and without the ability to use a PCMCIA modem and data-card, NEC's customer for the VersaPad would be forced to abandon the Penpoint application and retool for a Windows for Pen Computing application. The result of this, and some really major issues with early Ni-MHD battery cells was enough to kill the complete VersaPad project. A few VersaPad's still exist, and I probably even have a copy of Penpoint, a tragically flawed Penpoint mind you, for these rare beasts. I had a small stack of VersaPads, and recently sold some at the MIT flea-market to people wanting to use them as controllers for mobile robots. If there is any real interest, I'll go dig one out and see if one of the 2 remaining machines has Penpoint still installed. Anyway, I was not to happy Penpoint went away. I think I would prefer Penpoint as an O/S for my MobilePro 450 over Windows CE, but it has been a long time since I've used either one. Say, how old is a NEC MobilePro anyway? Hmm, nope, thats off-topic! Patrick Rigney wrote: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: Now that's what I call collectible. I really wish I still had my EO 440... :-( I have one ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Very cool... is it still working? I'd love to see pix; many memories. I worked for Go shortly before they merged back together with Eo and then... "went". --Patrick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021004/3d76654e/attachment.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Oct 4 22:56:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021004220753.0edf58aa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Joe wrote: > Is this machine related to the pen top Fujitsu computer? I have one but > haven't used it in a while. The dammed batteries are about worthless in > it, they go dead in a few days even with the machine off. Anyway mine > has two (IIRC) PCMCIA slots and runs the pen version of Win 3.1. It's > actually a pretty neat machine, you can detach the keyboard completely > and run everything via the pen. Also it has SRAM for memory so you can > turn it off then turn it back on and everything is exactly the way that > you left it. > > I THINK I remember reading that this machine would support PenPoint but > I've never seen a copy of it. IIRC, Alan Cox is currently working on getting the Linux kernel to play nice with one of those Fujitsu computers. Maybe once thats all polished it'll be a little more fun than win3.1? -Toth From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Oct 5 00:12:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: SIPP to SIMM conversion Message-ID: <3D9E2EAA.4459.B502B65@localhost> Does anyone on the list know a source for the kits to change SIMMs to SIPPs. I believe you soldered the tips on. Or better yet a source for these hard to get 30 pin RAM chips. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Oct 5 00:55:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: SIPP to SIMM conversion In-Reply-To: <3D9E2EAA.4459.B502B65@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Does anyone on the list know a source for the kits to change SIMMs to > SIPPs. I believe you soldered the tips on. Or better yet a source for > these hard to get 30 pin RAM chips. I've seen SIP modules made out of SIMMS with bits of wire soldered to the tinned pads. Of course, it really wasn't a pretty modification. I've never seen the pins available anywhere, but a company like Mouser Electronics or Digikey might stock something suitable. If you are handy with desoldering, you could always retrofit a board with SIMM sockets instead of SIP sockets. There might be SIMM sockets available with pins that would fit into the SIP socket too. -Toth From fernande at internet1.net Sat Oct 5 02:16:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: freebies in preparation of moving! Message-ID: <3D9E91EC.1000804@internet1.net> -2 DEC fan sleds with fans for BA440 chassis, from R400X DSSI Expansion Chassis -1 power supply for BA440 chassis, from R400X DSSI Expansion Chassis -Procomm Plus for Windows on 3.5" disk -Linear power supply from old Sperry external drive case, 12vdc 2amp, 5vdc 3.5 amp -Kensington System saver for a Mac Plus, SE, etc located in southwest Michigan, but I'll ship at the cost of the new owner. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Oct 5 02:34:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years References: <3D9E1913.5080205@tiac.net> Message-ID: <001d01c26c41$be51c860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Shannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:41 PM Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years Back when I worked at NEC, we had done a lot of work on a tablet-based portable PC called a VersaPad. The VersaPad was a fairly slick little 486SX based machine with a paper-white mono VGA display and a MicroTouch digitizer. It used an active, RF-linked 'pen' stylus with mouse-like buttons, etc. OMG... I remember seeing a tablet-based machine in a computer store a few years ago, when 486 SX/25s were still "top of the range" as far as laptops were concerned. A fast-talking salesman walked up to my Mum and then proceeded to demo a rather nice tablet-based PC, followed by a very nice Samsung NoteMaster laptop. I told my Mum to get the tablet PC. She said "The laptop's better". Guess which one she ended up buying... Yup. A Samsung NoteMaster 486S/25N. As proprietary as hell - Samsung BIOS, proprietary hard drive, floppy drive, RAM, name it. And now the 3.6V lithium battery is duff. And to top it all off, Tadiran (original manufacturer) don't make another one like it. And I'm trading her my Compaq Contura 420C (after I put Win3.1 and Word 6 on it) for it. Why do I get the feeling I'm making a huge mistake? From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sat Oct 5 03:33:01 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Excelan EXOS 8000S ? References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC6C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3D9EA404.95523E55@naffnet.org.uk> "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > > Excelan > EXOS 8000-0101S > TCP/IP NETWORK SOFTWARE SOURCE PRODUCT > FOR OEM DEVELOPMENT > PN: 4408000-0101S REL: 3.3Zv7 > > It has three more labels, all of which warn about it's contents being > proprietary, confidential, yadda yadda. The usual :) > > Question: what is this? Does anyone know, or remember, what the EXOS > 8000S was? The contents (2.3MB or so) look like a UNIX dist of some > kind, with UNIX shell scripts for installation... the rest is probably > a compressed file with the sources. This is the source code fir the VMS networking product that they used to keep - development was on UNIX with RCS being used for version control, and all of the code was released into the public domain when the product was discontinued after the company was acquired - by whom I cannot remember. I used to have a copy of the sources, ftp'd long ago from the company ftp site, but they went via the head-crash route. When I went to get them again, they were unfindable. At the time, I could not get the sources to compile with the GNU C compiler (version 1.something) and I could not justify the cost of the VAX C compiler, just to see if it would compile them - I have no idea whether EXOS moved the sources to a VAX to compile them or cross-compiled on UNIX. Cheers, Dave. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 5 07:34:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Excelan EXOS 8000S ? Message-ID: Well I used to have some model of EXOS ethernet interface that was QBus... They were, at one point, owned by Novell.. The board even had Novell silkscreened on it, was quite amusing to me.. I still have a multibus EXOS card for a Masscomp. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 5 07:42:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: 11/44 rescue complete Message-ID: For what it's worth; RT-11 V4 seems to exist in both blue AND orange binder versions! And yes, the V4 manuals in blue do indeed have "PDP-11" style covers... Weird eh? Will J _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sat Oct 5 08:10:01 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: SIPP to SIMM conversion In-Reply-To: <3D9E2EAA.4459.B502B65@localhost> Message-ID: Somewhere in my piles of stuff, I have about 10 never soldered SIMM sockets, cut into individual units for just that purpose. The pin spacing matches SIPP sockets. If you can't find another source, let me know and I'll go digging. Bill Sudbrink > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Lawrence Walker > Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 1:14 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: SIPP to SIMM conversion > > > Does anyone on the list know a source for the kits to change SIMMs to > SIPPs. I believe you soldered the tips on. Or better yet a source for these > hard to get 30 pin RAM chips. > > Lawrence > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jim at jkearney.com Sat Oct 5 08:20:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: SIPP to SIMM conversion References: Message-ID: <00dc01c26c72$04f6f440$1301090a@jkearney.com> You'll have to find out how to get some, but check out product # 3620 at mill-max.com. Die-Tech (die-tech.org) makes leadframes, including for SIPs, and might give you a substantial sample. Their products 5000-5006 look exactly right. These are from a discussion on Usenet a few months ago that I happened to remember. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 2:08 AM Subject: Re: SIPP to SIMM conversion > On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > Does anyone on the list know a source for the kits to change SIMMs to > > SIPPs. I believe you soldered the tips on. Or better yet a source for > > these hard to get 30 pin RAM chips. > > I've seen SIP modules made out of SIMMS with bits of wire soldered to the > tinned pads. Of course, it really wasn't a pretty modification. I've never > seen the pins available anywhere, but a company like Mouser Electronics or > Digikey might stock something suitable. > > If you are handy with desoldering, you could always retrofit a board with > SIMM sockets instead of SIP sockets. There might be SIMM sockets available > with pins that would fit into the SIP socket too. > > -Toth > > From foo at siconic.com Sat Oct 5 08:44:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years In-Reply-To: <3D9E1913.5080205@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > In the end, Go's assesement was that Penpoint would have to be > fundementally re-engineered to fix this issue. The changes needed would > be to dramatic that the project was canceled. This was a bug they just > could not fix, and without the ability to use a PCMCIA modem and > data-card, NEC's customer for the VersaPad would be forced to abandon > the Penpoint application and retool for a Windows for Pen Computing > application. The result of this, and some really major issues with early > Ni-MHD battery cells was enough to kill the complete VersaPad project. Why not just label the virtual PCMCIA card (the "book" icon) with the slot number? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 5 08:45:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years References: <3.0.6.16.20021004220753.0edf58aa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D9EED98.3050603@tiac.net> NEC VersaPad was based on a standard WinTel laptop design. They simply re-packaged it, eliminating the conventional clambshell chassis and keyboard. The LCD was the replaced with one having the Microtouch digitizer, and an internal serial port was dedicated to talking to the MicroTouch controller, some sort of 8051 I think. So it dod not borrow any design from Fujitsu, but the very early NiMHD cells were from Fujitsu if I recall correctly. These were a disaster, a total disaster, very very unsafe cells. If your Fuji laptop has these old Ni-MHD cells, REMOVE then ASAP. What happens is this, the electrolyte is unstable in some portions of its charge cycle, and the battery control electronics accumulate error in this percentage of charge calculations (because the cell voltage does not change during charge/discharge very much). So once the calculated charge value is wrong, it begins to overcharge the cells slightly, and this causes the electrolyte to begin to form metal crystals (nickel if I recall correctly). These tiny, sharp crystals begin to perforate the semi-permiable ion membrane inside the cells. In this condition, the cells become very unstable. They can start fires if your charger is stupid enough, it does not take much once the cells are screwed up. My advice it to remove the cells from your battery pack if you suspect they are early Ni-MHD technology. Joe wrote: >Bob, > > Is this machine related to the pen top Fujitsu computer? I have one but haven't used it in a while. The dammed batteries are about worthless in it, they go dead in a few days even with the machine off. Anyway mine has two (IIRC) PCMCIA slots and runs the pen version of Win 3.1. It's actually a pretty neat machine, you can detach the keyboard completely and run everything via the pen. Also it has SRAM for memory so you can turn it off then turn it back on and everything is exactly the way that you left it. > > I THINK I remember reading that this machine would support PenPoint but I've never seen a copy of it. > > Joe > >At 06:41 PM 10/4/02 -0400, you wrote: > >>People actually remember Penpoint! >> >>I'm afraid I had a small hand in 'killing' Penpoint. >> >>Back when I worked at NEC, we had done a lot of work on a tablet-based >>portable PC called >>a VersaPad. The VersaPad was a fairly slick little 486SX based machine >>with a paper-white >>mono VGA display and a MicroTouch digitizer. It used an active, >>RF-linked 'pen' stylus with >>mouse-like buttons, etc. >> >>You had your choice of operating systems, Microsoft's Windows for Pen >>Computing, a hacked >>up version of Windows 3.11, or Go's Penpoint, a strange OS that was >>centered around the idea of >>an electronic book. >> >>I was sent from NEC to Go's offices, along with a BIOS engineer, to >>assist Go Inc. in their efforts >>to port Penpoint for the VersaPad. Given this assignement, I sat down >>with a prototype and a stack >>of PenPoint documentation. As strange as Penpoint was (to me) at the >>time, I found it easy to learn >>despite the gesture-recognisers inability to deal with my nearly >>unreadable handwriting style. >> >>But then things got ugly. >> >>The VersaPad had 2 PCMCIA slots, and Penpoint supported an array of >>smart card, flash and SRAM >>cards. Penpoint had absolutley no concept of a physical volume or >>device name, so when you inserted >>a PCMCIA card, a small book-like icon appeared on a GUI 'shelf'. >> >>Apparently the VersaPad was the only Penpoint machine that supported 2 >>PCMCIA slots, something Go >>had never forseen in their low-level O/S design. This was a feature >>thought to be critical for a major customer >>who had asked NEC to develop the strange little VersaPad machine in the >>first place. >> >>Turns out I could pop a card into slot 0, and get its icon as normal. I >>could then pop a second card into slot >>1 and see another 'book' icon appear. But when I removed the first card >>and its icon disappeared, the identical >>icon for the card in slot 0 slid down the 'shelf' into the position that >>had held the icon for the card I'd just removed. >> >>Re-inserting the card in slot 0 now generated an icon on the OPPOSITE >>side of the icon for the slot 1 card, so >>there was no way to relate either PCMCIA card icon to either physical >>slot, as the GUI presentation depended >>on the order of insertion. The way this OS worked, with 2 PCMCIA slots, >>you were sure to delete files from >>the wrong physical volume, or not know which physical bit of media >>actually held your data. It was nasty. >> >>When this bug was replicated by the NEC BIOS enginer on the trip with >>me, we reported this bizzare bug to Go's team. >>Later that day, 90% of the engineers we were sent to support were called >>into 'urgent' meetings. >> >>In the end, Go's assesement was that Penpoint would have to be >>fundementally re-engineered to fix this issue. The changes needed would >>be to dramatic that the project was canceled. This was a bug they just >>could not fix, and >>without the ability to use a PCMCIA modem and data-card, NEC's customer >>for the VersaPad would be forced to abandon the Penpoint application and >>retool for a Windows for Pen Computing application. The result of this, >>and some really major issues with early Ni-MHD battery cells was enough >>to kill the complete VersaPad project. >> >>A few VersaPad's still exist, and I probably even have a copy of >>Penpoint, a tragically flawed Penpoint mind you, for these rare beasts. >>I had a small stack of VersaPads, and recently sold some at the MIT >>flea-market to people wanting to use them as controllers for mobile >>robots. >> >>If there is any real interest, I'll go dig one out and see if one of the >>2 remaining machines has Penpoint still installed. >> >>Anyway, I was not to happy Penpoint went away. I think I would prefer >>Penpoint as an O/S for my MobilePro 450 over Windows CE, but it has been >>a long time since I've used either one. >> >>Say, how old is a NEC MobilePro anyway? Hmm, nope, thats off-topic! >> >>Patrick Rigney wrote: >> >>>>On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: >>>> >>>>>Now that's what I call collectible. I really wish I still had >>>>> >>>>my EO 440... >>>> >>>>>:-( >>>>> >>>>I have one ;) >>>> >>>>Sellam Ismail Vintage >>>> >>>Very cool... is it still working? I'd love to see pix; many memories. I >>>worked for Go shortly before they merged back together with Eo and then... >>>"went". --Patrick >>> >>> >>> >> >>Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\Penpoint.htm" >> > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 5 08:48:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years References: <000201c26c1c$20ad2f20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <3D9EEE58.8080502@tiac.net> Thats the machine! Its quite rare. Note the bizzare hard drives it uses, a very unusual form-factor! If its an early engineering sample, it will be in whats called Soft-mold plastic, with a shiny texture rather than the normal NEC finish (so the engineers would have a good excuse for dropping them). Are you interested in trying to get PenPoint onto these machines? Chandra Bajpai wrote: > Hey Bob...I've got 2 prototype ( work ing) NEC VersaPads (they > actually say NEC Autograph on them). It's was a slick machine, our > company SystemSoft was developing the PCMCIA for NEC. Not to be > critical 10 years later, but the NEC VersaPad a lousy implementation > of PCMCIA (hot swapping primarily), but it could have been our early > engineering samples. > > The other machine from that era that impressed me was the NCR 3125. > http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/ncr_3125/ > > Out of all the pen machine built in 1992-1994, I think the 3125 or the > AT&T Safari machine were the biggest sellers (not that pen machines > were big sellers). > > I never realized the VersaPad was never released....or that PenPoint > ran on it. I would love to try it though. > > After GO went under I really regret (now) throwing out the PenPoint > SDK, documentation, diskettes etc. > > I've an IBM pen computer that runs PenPoint and I really think it was > much better then Windows for Pen Computing by far. I've always wanted > a Momenta pen system - anyone have one? Momenta burned through $40M in > VC money...until the dotcom era, that was the biggest disaster that > VCs ever had. > > -Chandra > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Bob Shannon > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 6:41 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years > > People actually remember Penpoint! > > I'm afraid I had a small hand in 'killing' Penpoint. > > Back when I worked at NEC, we had done a lot of work on a tablet-based > portable PC called > a VersaPad. The VersaPad was a fairly slick little 486SX based machine > with a paper-white > mono VGA display and a MicroTouch digitizer. It used an active, > RF-linked 'pen' stylus with > mouse-like buttons, etc. > > You had your choice of operating systems, Microsoft's Windows for Pen > Computing, a hacked > up version of Windows 3.11, or Go's Penpoint, a strange OS that was > centered around the idea of > an electronic book. > > I was sent from NEC to Go's offices, along with a BIOS engineer, to > assist Go Inc. in their efforts > to port Penpoint for the VersaPad. Given this assignement, I sat down > with a prototype and a stack > of PenPoint documentation. As strange as Penpoint was (to me) at the > time, I found it easy to learn > despite the gesture-recognisers inability to deal with my nearly > unreadable handwriting style. > > But then things got ugly. > > The VersaPad had 2 PCMCIA slots, and Penpoint supported an array of > smart card, flash and SRAM > cards. Penpoint had absolutley no concept of a physical volume or > device name, so when you inserted > a PCMCIA card, a small book-like icon appeared on a GUI 'shelf'. > > Apparently the VersaPad was the only Penpoint machine that supported 2 > PCMCIA slots, something Go > had never forseen in their low-level O/S design. This was a feature > thought to be critical for a major customer > who had asked NEC to develop the strange little VersaPad machine in > the first place. > > Turns out I could pop a card into slot 0, and get its icon as normal. > I could then pop a second card into slot > 1 and see another 'book' icon appear. But when I removed the first > card and its icon disappeared, the identical > icon for the card in slot 0 slid down the 'shelf' into the position > that had held the icon for the card I'd just removed. > > Re-inserting the card in slot 0 now generated an icon on the OPPOSITE > side of the icon for the slot 1 card, so > there was no way to relate either PCMCIA card icon to either physical > slot, as the GUI presentation depended > on the order of insertion. The way this OS worked, with 2 PCMCIA > slots, you were sure to delete files from > the wrong physical volume, or not know which physical bit of media > actually held your data. It was nasty. > > When this bug was replicated by the NEC BIOS enginer on the trip with > me, we reported this bizzare bug to Go's team. > Later that day, 90% of the engineers we were sent to support were > called into 'urgent' meetings. > > In the end, Go's assesement was that Penpoint would have to be > fundementally re-engineered to fix this issue. The changes needed > would be to dramatic that the project was canceled. This was a bug > they just could not fix, and > without the ability to use a PCMCIA modem and data-card, NEC's > customer for the VersaPad would be forced to abandon the Penpoint > application and retool for a Windows for Pen Computing application. > The result of this, and some really major issues with early Ni-MHD > battery cells was enough to kill the complete VersaPad project. > > A few VersaPad's still exist, and I probably even have a copy of > Penpoint, a tragically flawed Penpoint mind you, for these rare > beasts. I had a small stack of VersaPads, and recently sold some at > the MIT flea-market to people wanting to use them as controllers for > mobile robots. > > If there is any real interest, I'll go dig one out and see if one of > the 2 remaining machines has Penpoint still installed. > > Anyway, I was not to happy Penpoint went away. I think I would prefer > Penpoint as an O/S for my MobilePro 450 over Windows CE, but it has > been a long time since I've used either one. > > Say, how old is a NEC MobilePro anyway? Hmm, nope, thats off-topic! > > Patrick Rigney wrote: > >>On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: >> >>>Now that's what I call collectible. I really wish I still had >>> >>my EO 440... >> >>>:-( >>> >>I have one ;) >> >> >> >>Sellam Ismail Vintage >> > > >Very cool... is it still working? I'd love to see pix; many memories. I > >worked for Go shortly before they merged back together with Eo and then... > >"went". --Patrick > > > > > From foo at siconic.com Sat Oct 5 08:48:31 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years In-Reply-To: <000201c26c1c$20ad2f20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > I've an IBM pen computer that runs PenPoint and I really think it was > much better then Windows for Pen Computing by far. I've always wanted a > Momenta pen system - anyone have one? Momenta burned through $40M in VC > money.until the dotcom era, that was the biggest disaster that VCs ever > had. I've got a Momenta as well. Very odd shaped wedge design. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 5 08:50:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years References: <3D9E1913.5080205@tiac.net> <001d01c26c41$be51c860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3D9EEED9.1080208@tiac.net> Sure, I'll sell you a VersaPad! Philip Pemberton wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > > From:Bob Shannon > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:41 PM > > Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years > > Back when I worked at NEC, we had done a lot of work on a > tablet-based portable PC called > a VersaPad. The VersaPad was a fairly slick little 486SX based > machine with a paper-white > mono VGA display and a MicroTouch digitizer. It used an active, > RF-linked 'pen' stylus with > mouse-like buttons, etc. > > OMG... I remember seeing a tablet-based machine in a computer store a > few years ago, when 486 SX/25s were still "top of the range" as far as > laptops were concerned. A fast-talking salesman walked up to my Mum > and then proceeded to demo a rather nice tablet-based PC, followed by > a very nice Samsung NoteMaster laptop. I told my Mum to get the tablet > PC. She said "The laptop's better". Guess which one she ended up > buying... Yup. A Samsung NoteMaster 486S/25N. As proprietary as hell - > Samsung BIOS, proprietary hard drive, floppy drive, RAM, name it. And > now the 3.6V lithium battery is duff. And to top it all off, Tadiran > (original manufacturer) don't make another one like it. And I'm > trading her my Compaq Contura 420C (after I put Win3.1 and Word 6 on > it) for it. Why do I get the feeling I'm making a huge mistake? > > From what I remember, the tablet PC had a 486 CPU, 8MB RAM and a 7" or > so touch-sensitive screen you had to touch with a stylus. Oh, and it > ran Pen Windows. And it was black. And IIRC it had a pull-out keyboard. > > > > BTW, anyone got a tablet based PC they feel like parting with? I'd > love to get one simply to recapture some of the childhood I lost when > my Mum chose the laptop over the tablet PC. > > > > Later. > > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > From foo at siconic.com Sat Oct 5 08:50:27 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years In-Reply-To: <001d01c26c41$be51c860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > BTW, anyone got a tablet based PC they feel like parting with? I'd love > to get one simply to recapture some of the childhood I lost when my Mum > chose the laptop over the tablet PC. Does that qualify as parental abuse? Maybe you can report your mother to the social service authorities to have her locked away as revenge ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Oct 5 08:51:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years References: Message-ID: <016201c26c76$73352a40$93000240@oemcomputer> I've got a PenCentra 130 with windows CE and it's a pretty cool tablet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:09 PM Subject: Re: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years > On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Joe wrote: > > > Is this machine related to the pen top Fujitsu computer? I have one but > > haven't used it in a while. The dammed batteries are about worthless in > > it, they go dead in a few days even with the machine off. Anyway mine > > has two (IIRC) PCMCIA slots and runs the pen version of Win 3.1. It's > > actually a pretty neat machine, you can detach the keyboard completely > > and run everything via the pen. Also it has SRAM for memory so you can > > turn it off then turn it back on and everything is exactly the way that > > you left it. > > > > I THINK I remember reading that this machine would support PenPoint but > > I've never seen a copy of it. > > IIRC, Alan Cox is currently working on getting the Linux kernel to play > nice with one of those Fujitsu computers. Maybe once thats all polished > it'll be a little more fun than win3.1? > > -Toth > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Oct 5 08:59:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years References: <3D9E1913.5080205@tiac.net> <001d01c26c41$be51c860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <3D9EEED9.1080208@tiac.net> Message-ID: <017a01c26c77$9553cb80$93000240@oemcomputer> Anyone else that has one of these for sale email me off list with your asking price. Thanks jrkeys@concentric.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 8:53 AM Subject: Re: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years > Sure, I'll sell you a VersaPad! > > Philip Pemberton wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From:Bob Shannon > > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:41 PM > > > > Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years > > > > Back when I worked at NEC, we had done a lot of work on a > > tablet-based portable PC called > > a VersaPad. The VersaPad was a fairly slick little 486SX based > > machine with a paper-white > > mono VGA display and a MicroTouch digitizer. It used an active, > > RF-linked 'pen' stylus with > > mouse-like buttons, etc. > > > > OMG... I remember seeing a tablet-based machine in a computer store a > > few years ago, when 486 SX/25s were still "top of the range" as far as > > laptops were concerned. A fast-talking salesman walked up to my Mum > > and then proceeded to demo a rather nice tablet-based PC, followed by > > a very nice Samsung NoteMaster laptop. I told my Mum to get the tablet > > PC. She said "The laptop's better". Guess which one she ended up > > buying... Yup. A Samsung NoteMaster 486S/25N. As proprietary as hell - > > Samsung BIOS, proprietary hard drive, floppy drive, RAM, name it. And > > now the 3.6V lithium battery is duff. And to top it all off, Tadiran > > (original manufacturer) don't make another one like it. And I'm > > trading her my Compaq Contura 420C (after I put Win3.1 and Word 6 on > > it) for it. Why do I get the feeling I'm making a huge mistake? > > > > From what I remember, the tablet PC had a 486 CPU, 8MB RAM and a 7" or > > so touch-sensitive screen you had to touch with a stylus. Oh, and it > > ran Pen Windows. And it was black. And IIRC it had a pull-out keyboard. > > > > > > > > BTW, anyone got a tablet based PC they feel like parting with? I'd > > love to get one simply to recapture some of the childhood I lost when > > my Mum chose the laptop over the tablet PC. > > > > > > > > Later. > > > > -- > > Phil. > > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 5 09:11:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:46 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years In-Reply-To: <3D9EED98.3050603@tiac.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20021004220753.0edf58aa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021005100851.19878a20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks for the tip Bob. Mine does still have the original cells in it. Can they be replaced with standard NiMD cells or is the charging cycle wrong for them? Do you know if Fujitsu ever recalled or replaced the original cells? Joe At 09:48 AM 10/5/02 -0400, you wrote: >NEC VersaPad was based on a standard WinTel laptop design. > >They simply re-packaged it, eliminating the conventional clambshell >chassis and keyboard. >The LCD was the replaced with one having the Microtouch digitizer, and >an internal serial >port was dedicated to talking to the MicroTouch controller, some sort of >8051 I think. > >So it dod not borrow any design from Fujitsu, but the very early NiMHD >cells were from Fujitsu >if I recall correctly. These were a disaster, a total disaster, very >very unsafe cells. > >If your Fuji laptop has these old Ni-MHD cells, REMOVE then ASAP. > >What happens is this, the electrolyte is unstable in some portions of >its charge cycle, and the battery >control electronics accumulate error in this percentage of charge >calculations (because the cell voltage >does not change during charge/discharge very much). > >So once the calculated charge value is wrong, it begins to overcharge >the cells slightly, and this >causes the electrolyte to begin to form metal crystals (nickel if I >recall correctly). These tiny, sharp >crystals begin to perforate the semi-permiable ion membrane inside the >cells. > >In this condition, the cells become very unstable. They can start fires >if your charger is stupid enough, it >does not take much once the cells are screwed up. > >My advice it to remove the cells from your battery pack if you suspect >they are early Ni-MHD technology. > >Joe wrote: > >>Bob, >> >> Is this machine related to the pen top Fujitsu computer? I have one but haven't used it in a while. The dammed batteries are about worthless in it, they go dead in a few days even with the machine off. Anyway mine has two (IIRC) PCMCIA slots and runs the pen version of Win 3.1. It's actually a pretty neat machine, you can detach the keyboard completely and run everything via the pen. Also it has SRAM for memory so you can turn it off then turn it back on and everything is exactly the way that you left it. >> >> I THINK I remember reading that this machine would support PenPoint but I've never seen a copy of it. >> >> Joe >> >>At 06:41 PM 10/4/02 -0400, you wrote: >> >>>People actually remember Penpoint! >>> >>>I'm afraid I had a small hand in 'killing' Penpoint. >>> >>>Back when I worked at NEC, we had done a lot of work on a tablet-based >>>portable PC called >>>a VersaPad. The VersaPad was a fairly slick little 486SX based machine >>>with a paper-white >>>mono VGA display and a MicroTouch digitizer. It used an active, >>>RF-linked 'pen' stylus with >>>mouse-like buttons, etc. >>> >>>You had your choice of operating systems, Microsoft's Windows for Pen >>>Computing, a hacked >>>up version of Windows 3.11, or Go's Penpoint, a strange OS that was >>>centered around the idea of >>>an electronic book. >>> >>>I was sent from NEC to Go's offices, along with a BIOS engineer, to >>>assist Go Inc. in their efforts >>>to port Penpoint for the VersaPad. Given this assignement, I sat down >>>with a prototype and a stack >>>of PenPoint documentation. As strange as Penpoint was (to me) at the >>>time, I found it easy to learn >>>despite the gesture-recognisers inability to deal with my nearly >>>unreadable handwriting style. >>> >>>But then things got ugly. >>> >>>The VersaPad had 2 PCMCIA slots, and Penpoint supported an array of >>>smart card, flash and SRAM >>>cards. Penpoint had absolutley no concept of a physical volume or >>>device name, so when you inserted >>>a PCMCIA card, a small book-like icon appeared on a GUI 'shelf'. >>> >>>Apparently the VersaPad was the only Penpoint machine that supported 2 >>>PCMCIA slots, something Go >>>had never forseen in their low-level O/S design. This was a feature >>>thought to be critical for a major customer >>>who had asked NEC to develop the strange little VersaPad machine in the >>>first place. >>> >>>Turns out I could pop a card into slot 0, and get its icon as normal. I >>>could then pop a second card into slot >>>1 and see another 'book' icon appear. But when I removed the first card >>>and its icon disappeared, the identical >>>icon for the card in slot 0 slid down the 'shelf' into the position that >>>had held the icon for the card I'd just removed. >>> >>>Re-inserting the card in slot 0 now generated an icon on the OPPOSITE >>>side of the icon for the slot 1 card, so >>>there was no way to relate either PCMCIA card icon to either physical >>>slot, as the GUI presentation depended >>>on the order of insertion. The way this OS worked, with 2 PCMCIA slots, >>>you were sure to delete files from >>>the wrong physical volume, or not know which physical bit of media >>>actually held your data. It was nasty. >>> >>>When this bug was replicated by the NEC BIOS enginer on the trip with >>>me, we reported this bizzare bug to Go's team. >>>Later that day, 90% of the engineers we were sent to support were called >>>into 'urgent' meetings. >>> >>>In the end, Go's assesement was that Penpoint would have to be >>>fundementally re-engineered to fix this issue. The changes needed would >>>be to dramatic that the project was canceled. This was a bug they just >>>could not fix, and >>>without the ability to use a PCMCIA modem and data-card, NEC's customer >>>for the VersaPad would be forced to abandon the Penpoint application and >>>retool for a Windows for Pen Computing application. The result of this, >>>and some really major issues with early Ni-MHD battery cells was enough >>>to kill the complete VersaPad project. >>> >>>A few VersaPad's still exist, and I probably even have a copy of >>>Penpoint, a tragically flawed Penpoint mind you, for these rare beasts. >>>I had a small stack of VersaPads, and recently sold some at the MIT >>>flea-market to people wanting to use them as controllers for mobile >>>robots. >>> >>>If there is any real interest, I'll go dig one out and see if one of the >>>2 remaining machines has Penpoint still installed. >>> >>>Anyway, I was not to happy Penpoint went away. I think I would prefer >>>Penpoint as an O/S for my MobilePro 450 over Windows CE, but it has been >>>a long time since I've used either one. >>> >>>Say, how old is a NEC MobilePro anyway? Hmm, nope, thats off-topic! >>> >>>Patrick Rigney wrote: >>> >>>>>On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Now that's what I call collectible. I really wish I still had >>>>>> >>>>>my EO 440... >>>>> >>>>>>:-( >>>>>> >>>>>I have one ;) >>>>> >>>>>Sellam Ismail Vintage >>>>> >>>>Very cool... is it still working? I'd love to see pix; many memories. I >>>>worked for Go shortly before they merged back together with Eo and then... >>>>"went". --Patrick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\Penpoint.htm" >>> >> >> >> > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 5 09:21:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years References: Message-ID: <3D9EF62C.2020908@tiac.net> NEC asked this sort of question, but apparently at some lower level, the OS did not know which slot held which bit of media. There was some level of software, I think called a MIL that performed hardware abstraction for the higher-level OS. Its possible that the MIL had no way to communicate this info up to the OS level, and any fix would make large changes to the way the OS talked to the MIL layer. It was pretty late in the Go game for that sort of change. NEC's reaction to this was to abruptly 'kill' the whole program, but I suspect that this had a lot to do with 'saving face' over the battery cell issues that also plauged the project. So perhaps this all didn't kill Go as a company, it sure left a bad taste in NEC's mouth where non-Microsoft operating systems were concerned. I know that people within NEC had big plans for non-windows portables back then. It took a very long time before NEC's portable products group was comfortable working on anything less than a conventional clamshell Windows box. Even the Windows CE based MobilePro program was kept at arms distance until it began to sell fairly well. But even then, it was not treated as a main-stream product line. Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > >>In the end, Go's assesement was that Penpoint would have to be >>fundementally re-engineered to fix this issue. The changes needed would >>be to dramatic that the project was canceled. This was a bug they just >>could not fix, and without the ability to use a PCMCIA modem and >>data-card, NEC's customer for the VersaPad would be forced to abandon >>the Penpoint application and retool for a Windows for Pen Computing >>application. The result of this, and some really major issues with early >>Ni-MHD battery cells was enough to kill the complete VersaPad project. >> > >Why not just label the virtual PCMCIA card (the "book" icon) with the slot >number? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 5 09:32:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years References: <3.0.6.16.20021004220753.0edf58aa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021005100851.19878a20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D9EF8B5.5090403@tiac.net> Modern NI-MHD cells should work fine, as long as you get the correct mAH rating so the battery guage works properly. Also, try to fully charge and discharge the cells on each cycle, partial charge cycles will accumulate error much faster than any other activity. Often you can replace older NI-MHD cells with high quality Ni-CD cells, again matching the capacity. This is generally 'safer', although Ni-MHD cells ARE greatly superior to Ni-CD cells. Just don't try to mess around with Li-Ion cells or packs. These can really explode, bigtime! Joe wrote: > Thanks for the tip Bob. Mine does still have the original cells in it. Can they be replaced with standard NiMD cells or is the charging cycle wrong for them? > > Do you know if Fujitsu ever recalled or replaced the original cells? > > Joe > >At 09:48 AM 10/5/02 -0400, you wrote: > >>NEC VersaPad was based on a standard WinTel laptop design. >> >>They simply re-packaged it, eliminating the conventional clambshell >>chassis and keyboard. >>The LCD was the replaced with one having the Microtouch digitizer, and >>an internal serial >>port was dedicated to talking to the MicroTouch controller, some sort of >>8051 I think. >> >>So it dod not borrow any design from Fujitsu, but the very early NiMHD >>cells were from Fujitsu >>if I recall correctly. These were a disaster, a total disaster, very >>very unsafe cells. >> >>If your Fuji laptop has these old Ni-MHD cells, REMOVE then ASAP. >> >>What happens is this, the electrolyte is unstable in some portions of >>its charge cycle, and the battery >>control electronics accumulate error in this percentage of charge >>calculations (because the cell voltage >>does not change during charge/discharge very much). >> >>So once the calculated charge value is wrong, it begins to overcharge >>the cells slightly, and this >>causes the electrolyte to begin to form metal crystals (nickel if I >>recall correctly). These tiny, sharp >>crystals begin to perforate the semi-permiable ion membrane inside the >>cells. >> >>In this condition, the cells become very unstable. They can start fires >>if your charger is stupid enough, it >>does not take much once the cells are screwed up. >> >>My advice it to remove the cells from your battery pack if you suspect >>they are early Ni-MHD technology. >> >>Joe wrote: >> >>>Bob, >>> >>> Is this machine related to the pen top Fujitsu computer? I have one but haven't used it in a while. The dammed batteries are about worthless in it, they go dead in a few days even with the machine off. Anyway mine has two (IIRC) PCMCIA slots and runs the pen version of Win 3.1. It's actually a pretty neat machine, you can detach the keyboard completely and run everything via the pen. Also it has SRAM for memory so you can turn it off then turn it back on and everything is exactly the way that you left it. >>> >>> I THINK I remember reading that this machine would support PenPoint but I've never seen a copy of it. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>>At 06:41 PM 10/4/02 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>>>People actually remember Penpoint! >>>> >>>>I'm afraid I had a small hand in 'killing' Penpoint. >>>> >>>>Back when I worked at NEC, we had done a lot of work on a tablet-based >>>>portable PC called >>>>a VersaPad. The VersaPad was a fairly slick little 486SX based machine >>>>with a paper-white >>>>mono VGA display and a MicroTouch digitizer. It used an active, >>>>RF-linked 'pen' stylus with >>>>mouse-like buttons, etc. >>>> >>>>You had your choice of operating systems, Microsoft's Windows for Pen >>>>Computing, a hacked >>>>up version of Windows 3.11, or Go's Penpoint, a strange OS that was >>>>centered around the idea of >>>>an electronic book. >>>> >>>>I was sent from NEC to Go's offices, along with a BIOS engineer, to >>>>assist Go Inc. in their efforts >>>>to port Penpoint for the VersaPad. Given this assignement, I sat down >>>>with a prototype and a stack >>>>of PenPoint documentation. As strange as Penpoint was (to me) at the >>>>time, I found it easy to learn >>>>despite the gesture-recognisers inability to deal with my nearly >>>>unreadable handwriting style. >>>> >>>>But then things got ugly. >>>> >>>>The VersaPad had 2 PCMCIA slots, and Penpoint supported an array of >>>>smart card, flash and SRAM >>>>cards. Penpoint had absolutley no concept of a physical volume or >>>>device name, so when you inserted >>>>a PCMCIA card, a small book-like icon appeared on a GUI 'shelf'. >>>> >>>>Apparently the VersaPad was the only Penpoint machine that supported 2 >>>>PCMCIA slots, something Go >>>>had never forseen in their low-level O/S design. This was a feature >>>>thought to be critical for a major customer >>>>who had asked NEC to develop the strange little VersaPad machine in the >>>>first place. >>>> >>>>Turns out I could pop a card into slot 0, and get its icon as normal. I >>>>could then pop a second card into slot >>>>1 and see another 'book' icon appear. But when I removed the first card >>>>and its icon disappeared, the identical >>>>icon for the card in slot 0 slid down the 'shelf' into the position that >>>>had held the icon for the card I'd just removed. >>>> >>>>Re-inserting the card in slot 0 now generated an icon on the OPPOSITE >>>>side of the icon for the slot 1 card, so >>>>there was no way to relate either PCMCIA card icon to either physical >>>>slot, as the GUI presentation depended >>>>on the order of insertion. The way this OS worked, with 2 PCMCIA slots, >>>>you were sure to delete files from >>>>the wrong physical volume, or not know which physical bit of media >>>>actually held your data. It was nasty. >>>> >>>>When this bug was replicated by the NEC BIOS enginer on the trip with >>>>me, we reported this bizzare bug to Go's team. >>>>Later that day, 90% of the engineers we were sent to support were called >>>>into 'urgent' meetings. >>>> >>>>In the end, Go's assesement was that Penpoint would have to be >>>>fundementally re-engineered to fix this issue. The changes needed would >>>>be to dramatic that the project was canceled. This was a bug they just >>>>could not fix, and >>>>without the ability to use a PCMCIA modem and data-card, NEC's customer >>>>for the VersaPad would be forced to abandon the Penpoint application and >>>>retool for a Windows for Pen Computing application. The result of this, >>>>and some really major issues with early Ni-MHD battery cells was enough >>>>to kill the complete VersaPad project. >>>> >>>>A few VersaPad's still exist, and I probably even have a copy of >>>>Penpoint, a tragically flawed Penpoint mind you, for these rare beasts. >>>>I had a small stack of VersaPads, and recently sold some at the MIT >>>>flea-market to people wanting to use them as controllers for mobile >>>>robots. >>>> >>>>If there is any real interest, I'll go dig one out and see if one of the >>>>2 remaining machines has Penpoint still installed. >>>> >>>>Anyway, I was not to happy Penpoint went away. I think I would prefer >>>>Penpoint as an O/S for my MobilePro 450 over Windows CE, but it has been >>>>a long time since I've used either one. >>>> >>>>Say, how old is a NEC MobilePro anyway? Hmm, nope, thats off-topic! >>>> >>>>Patrick Rigney wrote: >>>> >>>>>>On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Now that's what I call collectible. I really wish I still had >>>>>>> >>>>>>my EO 440... >>>>>> >>>>>>>:-( >>>>>>> >>>>>>I have one ;) >>>>>> >>>>>>Sellam Ismail Vintage >>>>>> >>>>>Very cool... is it still working? I'd love to see pix; many memories. I >>>>>worked for Go shortly before they merged back together with Eo and then... >>>>>"went". --Patrick >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\Penpoint.htm" >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Oct 5 10:20:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years References: Message-ID: <001901c26c82$dc4123c0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Does that qualify as parental abuse? Maybe you can report your > mother to the social service authorities to have her locked away as > revenge ;) Nah... Not my style. I've probably had more fun with the Samsung laptop. Shame the b*dy hard drive is a stupid Samsung proprietary design - ?800 for a 700MB drive - I think not. I've just had to bodge in a Sonnenschein 3V6 Inorganic Lithium battery in place of the duff Tadiran CMOS battery. Lots of fun - two layers of Sellotape, a bit of solder and a burned finger later and I still don't know if it works. As for my Compaq Contura, I had to pull most of the casing to bits just to get to the battery holder... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jwillis at arielusa.com Sat Oct 5 11:49:01 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: SIPP to SIMM conversion Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6C8@deathstar.ARIELNET.COM> I have in stock many many many 30 pin SIMMS From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Oct 5 13:57:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: 11/44 rescue complete References: Message-ID: <3D9F3647.677A1C71@compsys.to> >Will Jennings wrote: > For what it's worth; RT-11 V4 seems to exist in both blue AND orange binder > versions! And yes, the V4 manuals in blue do indeed have "PDP-11" style > covers... Weird eh? Jerome Fine replies: Somewhere I seem to remember I have a set of V4.00 manuals without ANY binders. Should I save them or toss them? It is only about 18 inches of paper? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 5 14:27:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Any Altos fans out there? References: <3.0.6.16.20021004220753.0edf58aa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021005100851.19878a20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3D9EF8B5.5090403@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3D9F3DD0.3060508@tiac.net> I have an Altos Series 5-15, its a dual 5.25" floppy based Z80 system. It used to run MPM-II, and had always been a reliable little box. No front pannels or expansion slots, just a reliable 'appliance' computer from the pre-PC days. Bank-switched memory too, I forget how much RAM is in the thing. The floppy drives in their day were rather advanced, with about 720K of storage each. As long as you used high-quality media, they were rock solid. Recently I dusted off the old Altos, and after years of disuse I'd like to get it running again, but I've got two problems. First off, on reset the machine will seek track 0 on drive 0, and if that drive is already at track 0 it quickly selects drive 1 and attempts the same thing. The problem is that it never un-selects drive 1, so it does not even attempt to boot from a disk in drive 0. If I were to guess, I'd have to say the track 0 sensor in drive 1 is shot. Should be easy enough to test, but then I run into problem #2. I can't find the manuals for this box. They are here, somewhere. Hidden in some box guarded by oversized spiders probably. Eeek. I'll find them eventually. Looking at the Vintage links, I was supprized there are no Altos sites. I seem to recall Altos being a rather well respected name back then. They did make a pretty decent box in their day, and I'd thought they sold rather well. But they sure don't seem to turn up in any on-line collections. Can anyone tell me where I need to be looking on the floppy disk bus to find the track 0 signal? Is this a open collector signal that is shared for all drives on the bus, etc? Does anyone have a pointer to the general history of Altos? Whatever happend to them? From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Oct 5 15:34:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: 11/44 rescue complete In-Reply-To: <3D9F3647.677A1C71@compsys.to> References: Message-ID: >Jerome Fine replies: > >Somewhere I seem to remember I have a set of V4.00 manuals >without ANY binders. Should I save them or toss them? It is >only about 18 inches of paper? I'd say if you've got a set of V4 manuals that you don't want, offer them up to the list. I'm sure that someone here would like a copy (I've already got one and don't need another). Shipping shouldn't be that bad, or hard for a stack like that (definitly easier than if they were in binders). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Oct 5 15:54:01 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Any Altos fans out there? In-Reply-To: Bob Shannon's message of "Sat, 05 Oct 2002 15:30:24 -0400" References: <3.0.6.16.20021004220753.0edf58aa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021005100851.19878a20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3D9EF8B5.5090403@tiac.net> <3D9F3DD0.3060508@tiac.net> Message-ID: <200210052045.g95KjfRT053373@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Bob Shannon wrote: > Does anyone have a pointer to the general history of Altos? Whatever > happend to them? Bought by Acer. -Frank McConnell From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Oct 5 18:21:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: SIPP to SIMM conversion In-Reply-To: References: <3D9E2EAA.4459.B502B65@localhost> Message-ID: <3D9F2DB2.5822.F34865F@localhost> SIMM sockets that would fit into the SIP ones, if they were low-profile enough, would be the best solution. This is for older GRID LTs and they are flush with the motherboard inserts, so desoldering sockets isn't an option. I did find one site that had an adaptor to convert SIP ram to SIMM but not the obverse. I'll take a look at the sources you mention. Lawrence > On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > Does anyone on the list know a source for the kits to change SIMMs to > > SIPPs. I believe you soldered the tips on. Or better yet a source for > > these hard to get 30 pin RAM chips. > > I've seen SIP modules made out of SIMMS with bits of wire soldered to the > tinned pads. Of course, it really wasn't a pretty modification. I've never > seen the pins available anywhere, but a company like Mouser Electronics or > Digikey might stock something suitable. > > If you are handy with desoldering, you could always retrofit a board with > SIMM sockets instead of SIP sockets. There might be SIMM sockets available > with pins that would fit into the SIP socket too. > > -Toth > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sat Oct 5 20:49:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Any Altos fans out there? In-Reply-To: <200210052045.g95KjfRT053373@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20021004220753.0edf58aa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021005100851.19878a20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3D9EF8B5.5090403@tiac.net> <3D9F3DD0.3060508@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021005214711.00d33628@pop1.epm.net.co> At 01:45 PM 10/5/02 -0700, you wrote: >Bob Shannon wrote: >> Does anyone have a pointer to the general history of Altos? Whatever >> happend to them? > >Bought by Acer. > >-Frank McConnell Yes. I recently saw some systems in a phone company that bore the ALTOS/Acer trade mark. I was surprised that Acer chose to continue using the ALTOS name for some systems. In 1986 or '87, the accounting system for the university where I was studying ran on an Altos under Xenix, if my memory serves me right. A friend and I managed to install a second hard drive in it for less than 1/3 of what the company doing the support wanted. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 5 22:03:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Any Altos fans out there? Message-ID: After their Xenix 8086 systems, they made 68k-based *NIX servers... I think they were making x86 processor *NIX servers when Acer bought them.. I have a 3068EP, which is a 20MHz 68020 machine, needs manuals and software, plus assorted case parts.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From foo at siconic.com Sun Oct 6 01:23:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Any Altos fans out there? In-Reply-To: <3D9F3DD0.3060508@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > Looking at the Vintage links, I was supprized there are no Altos sites. > I seem to recall Altos being a rather well > respected name back then. They did make a pretty decent box in their > day, and I'd thought they sold rather well. They are definitely plentiful out in the wild. I think the problem is that they are so damn boring for the most part that no collectors or hobbysists really thought to devote any time to a page honoring their service. Perhaps you should put one up? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Oct 6 01:26:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? Message-ID: So, does anyone know what ever happend to Richard Erlacher? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Oct 6 02:17:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? References: Message-ID: <006301c26d08$87a1d090$073bcd18@D73KSM11> > So, does anyone know what ever happend to Richard Erlacher? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival A Google search indicates that his Usenet posts, which were fairly regular for years, stopped on 7/31/02. -W From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Oct 6 10:26:01 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? In-Reply-To: <2280.4.20.168.172.1033674938.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> <3D9C58A4.4C983EAE@ccp.com> <2280.4.20.168.172.1033674938.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20021006152730.TJZP9131.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Thursday 03 October 2002 15:55, Eric Smith wrote: > > One needs to consult with a customs broker, and there are many in > > business on both sides of the border. > > For old equipment, the broker's fee will exceed the import duties you > could expect to pay. I've had people send me stuff from Canada, and > later received outrageous bills from customs brokers, usually for > around five times what I paid for the merchandise. As far as I'm > concerned, I have no established business relationship with these > customs brokers. I did not expect the sender to use such a broker, and > was not told that it would be done. So I have never paid them. I tried this approach with UPS. They sent me the bill after I'd already given the goods away. They sent a few threatening letters and then I got one from a collections agency. From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Oct 6 10:32:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Attention 1802 fans... References: <3D97880A.7080805@tiac.net> <20020929221733.GF25966@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.2.32.20020929230002.00789524@pop1.epm.net.co> <3D985818.8030502@tiac.net> <3D988D0C.4030906@tiac.net> <00c501c269cc$e36224a0$073bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3DA0584E.3040407@tiac.net> Wanye had asked if any pictures of the 1801 CPU were on-line. I have made some hi-res JPEG's of the board, but they are close to half a meg each, so I've not posted them on-line, but they can be emailed on request. But while searching through my documentation for the meaning of the 'SSTC' acronym, I found something... I have found a rare copy of the "RCA Solid State MICROSYSTEMS" manual, SSD-270. This is over 500 pages of detailed information on RCA's 1802 board-level products including schematic diagrams, address maps, jumper settings, timing diagrams, component placement charts, etc. Several people from the list have commented on the rarity of 1802 documentation, so I'll offer this book for sale. The condition is quite good, hardly used, but not 'mint'. No tares or missing pages, the binding is intact and all the data is perfectly readable. Note, this book covers 1802-based RCA Microboard products, it does not contain any 1801 information. Also, a note for Wayne Smith...This manual describes 1802 based CPU boards, but they all appear to be the 'full size' boards that resemble STD-bus boards, that than the much shorter 1802 CPU shown in Wanye's JPEGs. It does however describe the RCA industrial chassis, power supply, and backplane signal definitions. From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Oct 6 10:40:00 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <815978286.20021002194732@subatomix.com> References: <200210022327.g92NRWB11843@shell1.aracnet.com> <013001c26a6f$2fcd1a00$0300a8c0@geoff> <815978286.20021002194732@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20021006154152.UFFA8339.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Wednesday 02 October 2002 20:47, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > From: "Zane H. Healy" > > > > > > 'cause when Windoze 95 becomes on topic, it just might not be fun > > > > anymore. > Would anyone object to adding an official 'cool factor clause' to the > 10-year rule? We already sorta have that now, where a newer computer > (e.g. mid-90s SGI MIPS) has sufficient cool factor that we're ok with > it. All we need is a concept of negative cool factor, so that some > computers (e.g. Packard Bell PC) might never be on-topic. I have a PB that I keep as a sample of bad design, along with the IBM Aptiva, and AST Bravo. From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Oct 6 10:54:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: BSD 2.9 Message-ID: Does anyone know where I could find a distribution of BSD 2.9 that I could install on my PDP-11/23. Also, will it work with just a 'TU58' (or possibly two) - I should hopefully have a working emulator by the end of the week - and 32kW of ram? I don't need it to do much - I'd just like to have something set up to play with a little. Thanks! Pat -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Oct 6 10:58:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: School Auction Finds Message-ID: <00c401c26d51$69b36be0$87010240@oemcomputer> Went to a large school auction Saturday and got lots of stuff real cheap. There was hundreds of computers stuff at this auction. I got; Epson PX-8 missing keyboard cover and ac adapter. 2 - IBM EduQuest Fifty-cs desktop computers that work fine, first time I had seen these. I have several of the all-in-one units. IBM type 3194 controller. NEC MultiSync 6FGp 20" monitor for $1 and it works great. Apple IIe platinum case and 6 external 51/4 floppy drives. IBM Thinkpad 350c no charger but only cost $1 Compaq Contura 3/25c no charger but also was only $1 And I got about 15 P166 Compaq for less than $1 each along with one P266 Compaq, several IBM 486's desktop all for less than $1 each. There were some Dell's in the lot also. Also got a box full of game consoles that I have not checked yet but saw a Genesis 16-bit and NES on top. From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Oct 6 11:19:01 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: latest HP haul Message-ID: <000701c26d54$09b60740$0101a8c0@jay> Here's what came in my last acquisition of HP gear that I started to unpack today.... (2) HP 2113E cpu's in impeccably mint condition. They look refurbed (no dust at all). The have been tested and run diags perfectly. Each one has 512KW, DCPC, M.E.M., Mem Protect, and 2102E memory controllers One has loader roms: 264x terminal, 7970 magtape {YES!}, 79xx Disc, CS80 disc The other has loader roms: 264x terminal, 7970 magtape, 79xx Disc, and 7905/06/20/25 disc Here's the cards between the two... (2) 13037 disc subsystem interfaces (2) TBG (2) BACI 12966A (2) Line Printer 26099A (2) BUS I/O (5) GRD TRU IN/OUT and..... a 5060-6282 prototyping board! Other items in the racks... 13037D disc subsystem controller (this one is MINT!) 13037B disc subsystem controller 12979B I/O expansion chassis & PS (2) 7906D disc drives (both appear to be in extremely clean condition) (2) standard cream colored HP racks Much fun! Jay West From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Sun Oct 6 11:23:00 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: School Auction Finds In-Reply-To: <00c401c26d51$69b36be0$87010240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021006122315.00b4af58@pop-server> At 10:59 AM 10/6/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Also got a box full of game consoles that I have not checked yet but saw a >Genesis 16-bit and NES on top. I have been looking for a top loading NES. Did you get one of those? "A successful marriage requires falling in love many times, always with the same person." -Mignon McLaughlin From pietstan at rogers.com Sun Oct 6 11:52:00 2002 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Mystery QBus cards Message-ID: <3DA06A30.6050908@rogers.com> I spotted a few cards at the local dismantlers the other day, and I wonder what they are: - dual-height (2 card edge fingers) with a sticker reading " MTI Model MSV05B" and a 50-pin header at the outside edge of the card - quaad-height with a silk-screened Dilog logo and DQ130 model number and 2 50-pin headers at teh ccard edge. What are these?? They had several of each of these, condition unknown (they were already pulled out of the machines), which I asked them to put away for me for a few days. Does anybody need any? One machine I also spotted there was labelled VaxStation II / GPX in a BA123 enclosure. I"m not interested in the machine, but if anyone wants cards from it, let me know.... From allain at panix.com Sun Oct 6 12:00:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT 286 References: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> <3D9C58A4.4C983EAE@ccp.com> <2280.4.20.168.172.1033674938.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <20021006152730.TJZP9131.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <008201c26d59$e88bfb00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I just picked up one of these precision ivory bricks this weekend (free at my village scrap center). Pretty intricate design, yet solid. This unit will remain safe in my stores for years. Anybody know if there's a BIOS boot menu available on it? John A. From allain at panix.com Sun Oct 6 12:03:10 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: 10 years References: <200210022327.g92NRWB11843@shell1.aracnet.com> <013001c26a6f$2fcd1a00$0300a8c0@geoff> <815978286.20021002194732@subatomix.com> <20021006154152.UFFA8339.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <008301c26d5a$140ee580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I have a PB that I keep as a sample of bad design, > along with the IBM Aptiva, and AST Bravo. Could you expound a bit on its pitfalls? I picked up a otherwise nice looking PB P75 this weekend for free. John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Oct 6 12:27:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Mystery QBus cards In-Reply-To: <3DA06A30.6050908@rogers.com> Message-ID: >I spotted a few cards at the local dismantlers the other day, and I >wonder what they are: > - dual-height (2 card edge fingers) with a sticker reading " MTI Model >MSV05B" and a 50-pin header at the outside edge of the card I think it's a tape controller for drives with a Pertec interface? At least that's what a "MSV05" appears to be. Or does this by any chance look like the following board ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/viking_scsi/qdt.jpg > - quad-height with a silk-screened Dilog logo and DQ130 model number >and 2 50-pin headers at teh ccard edge. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Oct 6 12:32:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: BSD 2.9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Does anyone know where I could find a distribution of BSD 2.9 that I could >install on my PDP-11/23. Also, will it work with just a 'TU58' (or >possibly two) - I should hopefully have a working emulator by the end of >the week - and 32kW of ram? I don't need it to do much - I'd just like to >have something set up to play with a little. I've links on my page to PUPS, they're who host the UNIX distro's. http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp11emu.html You're going to need more than a TU58 and 32Kw RAM. I don't remember how much RAM, but, IIRC, you'll need at least 1-2 RL02 drives. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Oct 6 12:50:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Mystery QBus cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I spotted a few cards at the local dismantlers the other day, and I > >wonder what they are: > > - dual-height (2 card edge fingers) with a sticker reading " MTI Model > >MSV05B" and a 50-pin header at the outside edge of the card > > I think it's a tape controller for drives with a Pertec interface? At > least that's what a "MSV05" appears to be. Or does this by any chance look > like the following board ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/viking_scsi/qdt.jpg If there's only a single 50pin header, I doubt it. Pertec uses a pair of 50pin headers. > > - quad-height with a silk-screened Dilog logo and DQ130 model number > >and 2 50-pin headers at teh ccard edge. > > > >From the field Guide: > DQ130 Q Dilog DU120 tape controller. Emulates TM11. > 4 Drives. Pertec I/O I'd be interested in one of these... Now I just need to find myself another 9track tape drive (working, this time). I'll contact you offlist. > >One machine I also spotted there was labelled VaxStation II / GPX in a > >BA123 enclosure. I"m not interested in the machine, but if anyone wants > >cards from it, let me know.... Why don't you post a list of the cards in the machine, if you can get back to it before they want it 'gone away'. -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Oct 6 13:05:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT 286 References: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> <3D9C58A4.4C983EAE@ccp.com> <2280.4.20.168.172.1033674938.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <20021006152730.TJZP9131.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> <008201c26d59$e88bfb00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <004201c26d63$27795c50$80469280@george> I *think* I gve one of these (w/ dock) to Ethan Dicks. Keyboard lifts out, with a battery in the center under it? Don't know much about it, but it came with win3.11 installed, and a 3270 emulator card in the dock. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 1:00 PM Subject: Compaq SLT 286 > I just picked up one of these precision ivory bricks this > weekend (free at my village scrap center). Pretty intricate > design, yet solid. This unit will remain safe in my stores > for years. > Anybody know if there's a BIOS boot menu available on it? > > John A. From classiccmp at dobyns.com Sun Oct 6 14:05:09 2002 From: classiccmp at dobyns.com (Barry A. Dobyns) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks References: <525F19E608DFD311A5E500902733E7CA445C6C@COOKSONPEIRCE01> Message-ID: <00bd01c26d6b$80027c50$a103fea9@Moltres> Apparently, because I mention Altos in a few places on my website, I got this request. I just saw some bits about Altos pass recently - someone has to have a live one still in captivity. Mine are all in need of dustbunny removal and more. Please reply to the email below, not to me. Thanks, -barry --- Barry Dobyns, barry@dobyns.com, http://www.dobyns.com/barry/museum/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce W. Miller" To: "Barry A Dobyns" Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:25 AM Subject: Help needed We had an old Altos 3068 (running a 68010 chip I belive) that died. We are in need of transferring some data from the floppys written on that machine to our new server. These were written using the IBM format. Do you have any ideas on what we could try? Thanks, Bruce From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 6 14:43:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: BSD 2.9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33038.64.169.63.74.1033933446.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Does anyone know where I could find a distribution of BSD 2.9 that I > could install on my PDP-11/23. Also, will it work with just a 'TU58' > (or possibly two) - I should hopefully have a working emulator by the > end of the week - and 32kW of ram? I don't need it to do much - I'd > just like to have something set up to play with a little. There's no way you're going to be able to run BSD 2.x with only 64kb of RAM, you need about four times that! I'm not sure how much disk is required, but it will be measured in megabytes, so TU58s won't be sufficient. 5th or 6th edition would be more practical on this system, though you'd probably have to write a TU58 driver. Eric From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Oct 6 14:52:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: BSD 2.9 In-Reply-To: <33038.64.169.63.74.1033933446.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: Message-ID: >5th or 6th edition would be more practical on this system, though you'd >probably have to write a TU58 driver. > >Eric I thought 5th & 6th were limited to Unibus systems.... For that matter, will 7th even run on a Q-Bus system? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Oct 6 14:54:01 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <008301c26d5a$140ee580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200210022327.g92NRWB11843@shell1.aracnet.com> <20021006154152.UFFA8339.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> <008301c26d5a$140ee580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20021006195435.VQTH28320.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Sunday 06 October 2002 13:01, John Allain wrote: > > I have a PB that I keep as a sample of bad design, > > along with the IBM Aptiva, and AST Bravo. > > Could you expound a bit on its pitfalls? > I picked up a otherwise nice looking PB P75 this > weekend for free. One of the first machines I had to work on was a PB. They had shipped it without connecting the serial ports to the back of the case. Most of that shipment was returned with in a week. My complaints with it are the daughter board and the layout of the insides, it's very difficult to add an drive to the machine, or change the one in it. The aptiva has similar problems along with the Mwave modem/sound-card combo. The Bravo used daughter boards for the soldered on CPU, and a few of the other add-ons as well as a none standard motherboard. I view these machines as single use disposable machines. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 6 14:55:39 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Mystery QBus cards In-Reply-To: <3DA06A30.6050908@rogers.com> References: <3DA06A30.6050908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <33049.64.169.63.74.1033934113.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > I spotted a few cards at the local dismantlers the other day, and I > wonder what they are: > - dual-height (2 card edge fingers) with a sticker reading " MTI Model > MSV05B" and a 50-pin header at the outside edge of the card > - quaad-height with a silk-screened Dilog logo and DQ130 model number > and 2 50-pin headers at teh ccard edge. They're nine-track tape controllers (Pertec interface). Might be worth saving if they'll sell them cheap. > One machine I also spotted there was labelled VaxStation II / GPX in a > BA123 enclosure. I"m not interested in the machine, but if anyone wants > cards from it, let me know.... Hard to say without knowing what cards are in it. If it's just a stock configuration, it's not too exciting, although I wouldn't mind having a spare VCB02 card set. Could contain interesting third-party stuff, though. The BA123 is a nice enclosure, and I wouldn't mind having another, especially if it's in good condition, but it's probably not worth shipping. Where's the stuff located? From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 6 15:37:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: BSD 2.9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33100.64.169.63.74.1033936700.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I thought 5th & 6th were limited to Unibus systems.... For that matter, > will 7th even run on a Q-Bus system? If you have under 256KB of memory, and only I/O devices equivalent to the corresponding Unibus devices, it should be possible to get them working. To software, an 11/23 with 256KB of memory is not that much different than an 11/40 with KT11. I remember hearing of someone running 6th edition on an 11/23, but I don't recall who it was, or whether modifications were required. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Oct 6 16:20:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: School Auction Finds References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021006122315.00b4af58@pop-server> Message-ID: <003901c26d7e$555a18b0$c8010240@oemcomputer> Yes, and it looks like it has 2 controllers and ac adapter with it. Have not pulled it to test yet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Ehrich" To: Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 11:23 AM Subject: Re: School Auction Finds > At 10:59 AM 10/6/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >Also got a box full of game consoles that I have not checked yet but saw a > >Genesis 16-bit and NES on top. > > I have been looking for a top loading NES. > > Did you get one of those? > > > "A successful marriage requires falling in love > many times, always with the same person." > -Mignon McLaughlin > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Oct 6 16:27:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: hp items found today Message-ID: <004301c26d7f$500404b0$c8010240@oemcomputer> Went to unload the van at the warehouse and stopped at a couple of stores and found these hp items: hp 82162A Thermal Printer with one roll of paper. hp 82169A HP-IL/HP-IB Interface unit. A plastic bag hanging on the junk rack with a hp ac adapter 82059D; hp 82160A HP-IL module; and three different length hp cables for the above units. Also picked up a power supply for the Zenith Supersport 286 notebook. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Oct 6 16:45:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks In-Reply-To: <00bd01c26d6b$80027c50$a103fea9@Moltres> Message-ID: > We had an old Altos 3068 (running a 68010 chip I belive) that died. We are > in need of transferring some data > from the floppys written on that machine to our new server. These were > written using the IBM format. > Do you have any ideas on what we could try? > Please reply to the email below, not to me. I just don't have the strength and energy right now to correspond with somebody until they identify the disk diameter, density, and operating system more explicitly and specifically than "the IBM format". Perhaps somebody else here has enough familiarity with his model of computer to provide some of the information that he failed to. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sun Oct 6 17:57:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: HP 2644A "Moldy CRT" Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021006225844.21498.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> I have successfully solved the HP2644A "Moldy CRT" problem. I wanted to report on this because several people emailed me mentioning that this strange format (wide) CRT was used in a lot of 70's-early 80's HP equipment. The only examples I found of this type of CRT in use on the 'net also have this problem. To recap, the silicone between the front anti-glare shield and CRT gets mold creeping in from all sides, making the CRT ugly and/or hard to read. The very rare replacments, made with an acrylic shield, cost $225 plus shipping. In a nutshell, I used a nichrome wire, an old AT power supply, and some homemade handles along with a mounting box to contain (and I do mean "contain") the CRT in removing the front glare shield. After silicone cleanup and removal with a razor blade scraper and acetone, I reattached the glare shield (but only at the edges) with optical grade (fish tank) RTV. Obviously, this takes some work and nerve to do. I'd put up instructions on exactly how to do it, but I'm afraid of liability issues! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From donm at cts.com Sun Oct 6 18:38:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: School Auction Finds In-Reply-To: <00c401c26d51$69b36be0$87010240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Keys wrote: > Went to a large school auction Saturday and got lots of stuff real cheap. > There was hundreds of computers stuff at this auction. I got; > > Epson PX-8 missing keyboard cover and ac adapter. That should be little problem. It is a 6VDC 600MA wall wart with a coax connector where the shell is plus. - don > 2 - IBM EduQuest Fifty-cs desktop computers that work fine, first time I had > seen these. I have several of the all-in-one units. > > IBM type 3194 controller. > > NEC MultiSync 6FGp 20" monitor for $1 and it works great. > > Apple IIe platinum case and 6 external 51/4 floppy drives. > > IBM Thinkpad 350c no charger but only cost $1 > > Compaq Contura 3/25c no charger but also was only $1 > > And I got about 15 P166 Compaq for less than $1 each along with one P266 > Compaq, several IBM 486's desktop all for less than $1 each. There were some > Dell's in the lot also. > > Also got a box full of game consoles that I have not checked yet but saw a > Genesis 16-bit and NES on top. > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Oct 6 19:47:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:47 2005 Subject: BSD 2.9 In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: BSD 2.9" (Oct 6, 12:52) References: Message-ID: <10210070148.ZM26089@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 6, 12:52, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >5th or 6th edition would be more practical on this system, though you'd > >probably have to write a TU58 driver. > > > >Eric > > I thought 5th & 6th were limited to Unibus systems.... For that matter, > will 7th even run on a Q-Bus system? 7th Edition certainly runs on QBus. That's what one of my 11/23's is running, and it was a development machine for Heriot-Watt University, when they were the UK distribution centre. It has 256KB RAM and two RL02's on an RLV11 controller. With a small tweak, 7th Edition will also run on an 11/73. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Oct 6 19:49:18 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Mystery QBus cards In-Reply-To: Stan Pietkiewicz "Mystery QBus cards" (Oct 6, 12:52) References: <3DA06A30.6050908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <10210070150.ZM26093@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 6, 12:52, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > I spotted a few cards at the local dismantlers the other day, and I > wonder what they are: > - dual-height (2 card edge fingers) with a sticker reading " MTI Model > MSV05B" and a 50-pin header at the outside edge of the card > - quaad-height with a silk-screened Dilog logo and DQ130 model number > and 2 50-pin headers at teh ccard edge. DQ130 is a Dilog controller providing a Pertec 2x50-way interface for a tape drive. I guess the other is a QIC-02 or similar interface. I always get the QIC numbers confused. Which are the interface descriptions and which are the tape formats? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From donm at cts.com Sun Oct 6 19:53:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > We had an old Altos 3068 (running a 68010 chip I belive) that died. We are > > in need of transferring some data > > from the floppys written on that machine to our new server. These were > > written using the IBM format. > > Do you have any ideas on what we could try? > > > Please reply to the email below, not to me. > > I just don't have the strength and energy right now to correspond with > somebody until they identify the disk diameter, density, and operating > system more explicitly and specifically than "the IBM format". > > Perhaps somebody else here has enough familiarity with his model of > computer to provide some of the information that he failed to. Fred, several sites that I dug up via google show the mass storage of the machine to be 5.25" 1.2MB floppy and 20MB hard disk. Sounds like it used 512 byte sectors in Unix form. - don > > -- > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > > From jss at subatomix.com Sun Oct 6 20:13:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: New Acquisition Message-ID: <943396774.20021006201100@subatomix.com> A listmember and I met today, in a city in the middle of the USA, to exchange some hardware. If you cctech-ers are wondering why you haven't got list mail in several days, well, now you know the rest of the story. :-) He got a Stardent deskside that I originally rescued from a Austin, Texas auction block. He also got a complete Xerox 8010 of his that I had transported and stored for him from elsewhere in the country. I got a nearly-complete Symbolics 3650 system and a DEC Computer Lab. I've always thought that LISP was an entertaining language, and that a LISP machine would be equally entertaining (maybe bewildering). Now maybe I'll be able to find out. Oh gods, that thing was heavy! But at least it came with a very cool (albeit later-model) space cadet keyboard, like the one pictured here: http://www.abstractscience.freeserve.co.uk/symbolics/photos/IO/index.html -- Jeffrey Sharp From patrick at evocative.com Sun Oct 6 20:37:01 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > So were you around to observe all the Microsoft trickery and shenanigans > that led to them basically stealing PenPoint from under your noses? Sellam, I never saw it that way. Microsoft has yet to produce anything nearly as revolutionary as PenPoint. If they had the keys, they didn't use them. Actually, Apple's Newton seemed to get more benefit from the demise of Go than Microsoft... a lot of the really top-notch handwriting people ended up going to work on the Newton. Speaking of which... somebody must have a Newton??? And if it's you, Sellam, then you need to give it up... both an Eo 440 and a Newton... that's a lot of karma! :-) > Jerry Kaplan's book _Startup_ was a great read. But from what I heard, > the VCs basically considered Jerry a boob after the whole Go fiasco. Jerry founded Onsale, and was pretty much on the cutting edge of web-based auctioning. I think he's probably done well enough that he doesn't need to worry about what VCs think, which is a healthy thing for an entrepreneur. IMHO, the success of your business is directly related to how _you_ feel about it--the vision you build and the tenacity with which you stick by it to make it a reality--not how a VC feels about it. Jerry always seemed to stay true to his vision, and people were excited to work with him. That's not the mark of a boob in my book. Patrick From foo at siconic.com Sun Oct 6 21:22:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Speaking of which... somebody must have a Newton??? And if it's you, > Sellam, then you need to give it up... both an Eo 440 and a Newton... that's > a lot of karma! :-) Newtons are relatively easy to find (certainly easier than an EO 440). Yes, I also have a Newton. But it was very hard earned karma, so please cut me some slack :) > Jerry founded Onsale, and was pretty much on the cutting edge of web-based > auctioning. I think he's probably done well enough that he doesn't need to > worry about what VCs think, which is a healthy thing for an entrepreneur. > IMHO, the success of your business is directly related to how _you_ feel > about it--the vision you build and the tenacity with which you stick by it > to make it a reality--not how a VC feels about it. Jerry always seemed to > stay true to his vision, and people were excited to work with him. That's > not the mark of a boob in my book. Me either, I was just reporting what I heard from an "insider". It was a very good story at any rate. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Oct 6 21:32:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: PDP 11/44 working Message-ID: Yesterday (and into the night), I powered up one of the two 11/44 machines rescued from San Diego. Did the usual thing of taking out the cards, documenting cables, cleaning, dusting, and then turning things up slow and watching voltages - no worries, the systaem came up and was subsequently reassembled in it's as-acquired config. It boots from two Micropolis 51/4" half-height drives sitting in the card bay of a card-less 11/23 chassis... which has been re-badged by Centaur Software. The front panel switches control write-protect, now. I don't have models right now, since I didn't work on that device yet. But they connect to a Dilog DU686 controller card - a quad-height card with one common 34-pin ribbon and individual 20-pin ribbons going to each (of 2 drives). This is... MFM, no? the original owner called them SCSI but somehow I think not.... Anybody have Doc on this Dilog card? The machine currently runs RSX-11M V4.2 G Build 58, or so it says. File creations run from 1980 to 1997, when the machine was shut down. The physical devices are mostly from '79 to '83. It has Fortran, Basic, and Oregon Pascal V2 installed. There is an RL02 system, working nicely, and couple of multi-line EIA muxes, one DEC (M7819) DZ11 and a Ditronics 16-line EIA mux. There is also a Digital Pathways SLC-1 real-time clock/calendar that sits in the Console line and responds to certain interrogatories from the System... fairly funky, IMHO. It came with printsets for all major subsystems, and the Blue Wall, and about 20 RL02 packs, most of which are blank. If everything goes as planned, I will bring this machine to VCF5.0 and let it be Played With. And, looking back into the Files, it was Bill Bradford who first brought this machine to the attention of Chris Kennedy, who referred it to me, and voila! here it is warming my (pleasantly) chilly garage while we wait to see if Autumn is going to actually stay for a while. It was pushing 90 here this afternoon... wierd! Should be fixing to snow.... So - now to wake up the Second System. Since this was a mission-critical machine, there are actually two complete identically-configured 11/44a and disk subsystems. The RL02 is shared by changing cables to the machine in use, and the TTY lines are all hooked up to a bank of DPDT mini switches (also by Centaurus Software) so that, if one system crashes, the other can be cut over by changing one connector and flipping the switches. Anyway - not a particularly 'rare' or 'significant' system, but certainly fun to mess around with. It certainly gets stares from my nieghbors. One of the local kids looked in while it was running this evening and asked "what's *that* thing?". I told him it was a computer. "No Way!!" Cheers John From pietstan at rogers.com Sun Oct 6 21:43:00 2002 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Mystery QBus cards References: Message-ID: <3DA0F49B.7040705@rogers.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: <> >>>One machine I also spotted there was labelled VaxStation II / GPX in a >>>BA123 enclosure. I"m not interested in the machine, but if anyone wants >>>cards from it, let me know.... >>> > > Why don't you post a list of the cards in the machine, if you can get back > to it before they want it 'gone away'. > If I can get back there before they pull it apart, I will... Silly me, I forgot to make a list of what was in it when I saw it... From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 6 23:02:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: BSD 2.9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021007040341.74712.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > I've links on my page to PUPS, they're who host the UNIX distro's. > http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp11emu.html > > You're going to need more than a TU58 and 32Kw RAM. I don't remember how > much RAM, but, IIRC, you'll need at least 1-2 RL02 drives. I've installed 2.9BSD onto a real (not emulated) PDP-11, an 11/24 w/1MB of RAM, RL11, 2 x RL02 and a 9-track drive hung off of a Dilog tape controller (this was long ago, long before PUPS). My recollection is that the primary distro fits on a single RL02; you'll need a second one for the source archives (to remake the kernel). It runs in 256K, but that doesn't leave lots of RAM for user processes. ISTR that I could run rogue, but not dungeon (an older version of Bob Supnik's FORTRAN port, not 3.2A). I bought a real KT24 and a couple extra megs of RAM (from Terry Kennedy, about $500 c. 1988, ISTR) to run 2.9BSD comfortably. The real problem I ran into was disk space. 4 RL02s just wasn't enough space to really have fun. If I would've been willing to drop another grand, I could have had a Unibus SMD disk controller and a decent sized (capacity, not weight) SMD disk. It's a good UNIX to play with. Completely recognizable by today's standards. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From donm at cts.com Sun Oct 6 23:33:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: PDP 11/44 working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > Yesterday (and into the night), I powered up one of the two 11/44 > machines rescued from San Diego. Did the usual thing of taking out the > cards, documenting cables, cleaning, dusting, and then turning things up > slow and watching voltages - no worries, the systaem came up and was > subsequently reassembled in it's as-acquired config. > > It boots from two Micropolis 51/4" half-height drives sitting in the > card bay of a card-less 11/23 chassis... which has been re-badged by > Centaur Software. The front panel switches control write-protect, now. > I don't have models right now, since I didn't work on that device yet. > But they connect to a Dilog DU686 controller card - a quad-height card > with one common 34-pin ribbon and individual 20-pin ribbons going to each > (of 2 drives). This is... MFM, no? the original owner called them SCSI > but somehow I think not.... Anybody have Doc on this Dilog card? Certainly not SCSI, but are either ST506/411 (what you called MFM) or ESDI. Check the controller capabilities or the interface of the drives before you swap in a different drive that "looks the same". The connectioons are NOT the same. - don > The machine currently runs RSX-11M V4.2 G Build 58, or so it says. File > creations run from 1980 to 1997, when the machine was shut down. The > physical devices are mostly from '79 to '83. > > It has Fortran, Basic, and Oregon Pascal V2 installed. > > There is an RL02 system, working nicely, and couple of multi-line EIA > muxes, one DEC (M7819) DZ11 and a Ditronics 16-line EIA mux. > > There is also a Digital Pathways SLC-1 real-time clock/calendar that > sits in the Console line and responds to certain interrogatories from the > System... fairly funky, IMHO. > > It came with printsets for all major subsystems, and the Blue Wall, and > about 20 RL02 packs, most of which are blank. > > > If everything goes as planned, I will bring this machine to VCF5.0 and > let it be Played With. > > > And, looking back into the Files, it was Bill Bradford who first brought > this machine to the attention of Chris Kennedy, who referred it to me, and > voila! here it is warming my (pleasantly) chilly garage while we wait to > see if Autumn is going to actually stay for a while. It was pushing 90 > here this afternoon... wierd! Should be fixing to snow.... > > > So - now to wake up the Second System. Since this was a > mission-critical machine, there are actually two complete > identically-configured 11/44a and disk subsystems. The RL02 is shared by > changing cables to the machine in use, and the TTY lines are all hooked up > to a bank of DPDT mini switches (also by Centaurus Software) so that, if > one system crashes, the other can be cut over by changing one connector > and flipping the switches. > > > Anyway - not a particularly 'rare' or 'significant' system, but > certainly fun to mess around with. It certainly gets stares from my > nieghbors. One of the local kids looked in while it was running this > evening and asked "what's *that* thing?". I told him it was a computer. > > "No Way!!" > > > Cheers > > John > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 6 23:38:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks Message-ID: should be 5.25", I think 1.44MB, and UNIX. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 7 00:05:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've never seen a high density Altos diskette. But that doesn't mean there there aren't any; there is a LOT that I've never seen. I've seen a lot of "720K" 5.25" Altos diskettes. Mostly Altos MP/M or CP/M, some Altos Unix, and one Altos diskette that was a CP/M (MP/M) directory structure, but with Motorola (MSB first) byte order. But the source of that diskette couldn't tell me anything more about the machine than "really old" and "ADM 3A". While it COULD be CP/M68K, it was more likely the result of a faulty data conversion program. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 7 00:19:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1918158780.20021007001702@subatomix.com> On Sunday, October 6, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > So, does anyone know what ever happend to Richard Erlacher? As far as his list membership is concerned... Some time ago, his email account began to spam the list with harmful attachments. I put him into moderated mode and demanded that he fix the problem. He did not, so I removed him from the list. I don't remember when, why, or how they stopped, but it's been a while since I saw anything from him (always a harmful-attachment mail) in the non-subscrber post queue. -- Jeffrey Sharp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 7 01:27:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks Message-ID: It is possible that it is 760K, I haven't looked up the model number on the floppy drive in my 3068EP yet, I was just guessing due to the lateness of the machine.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 7 01:35:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: 10 years Message-ID: I have a Newton.. also the complete, never-used programming kit.. And a spare LCD should anyone need one... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 7 01:41:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Mystery QBus cards Message-ID: MTI MSV05 = emulates DEC TSV05.. I have the manual for it... I think its a a QIC controller, not sure off the top of my head.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 7 01:42:39 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Mystery QBus cards Message-ID: MTI MSV05 = emulates DEC TSV05.. I have the manual for it... I think its a a QIC controller, not sure off the top of my head.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Oct 7 01:55:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021006235145.031655e0@mail.zipcon.net> which model of newton? At 12:36 AM 10/7/02 -0600, you wrote: >I have a Newton.. also the complete, never-used programming kit.. And a >spare LCD should anyone need one... > >Will J > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 7 02:25:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: PDP 11/44 working In-Reply-To: Don Maslin "Re: PDP 11/44 working" (Oct 6, 21:34) References: Message-ID: <10210070757.ZM26268@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 6, 21:34, Don Maslin wrote: > On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > It boots from two Micropolis 51/4" half-height drives sitting in the > > card bay of a card-less 11/23 chassis... which has been re-badged by > > Centaur Software. The front panel switches control write-protect, now. > > I don't have models right now, since I didn't work on that device yet. > > But they connect to a Dilog DU686 controller card - a quad-height card > > with one common 34-pin ribbon and individual 20-pin ribbons going to each > > (of 2 drives). This is... MFM, no? the original owner called them SCSI > > but somehow I think not.... Anybody have Doc on this Dilog card? > > Certainly not SCSI, but are either ST506/411 (what you called MFM) or > ESDI. Check the controller capabilities or the interface of the drives > before you swap in a different drive that "looks the same". The > connectioons are NOT the same. DQ686 is an ESDI controller, with MSCP protocol. Don's right, do not connect ST506/412 drives to it or you'll release soe magic smoke! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Oct 7 02:30:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Mystery QBus cards In-Reply-To: <3DA06A30.6050908@rogers.com>; from pietstan@rogers.com on Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 18:52:00 CEST References: <3DA06A30.6050908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20021007092643.O1254@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.10.06 18:52 Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > - dual-height (2 card edge fingers) with a sticker reading " MTI > Model MSV05B" and a 50-pin header at the outside edge of the card Speculation: Floppy controler? I have a similar card from MTI and it is a RX02 emulating floppy controler with Shugart SA800 interface. > - quaad-height with a silk-screened Dilog logo and DQ130 model > number and 2 50-pin headers at teh ccard edge. Megans pdp11-field-guide.txt says: DQ130 Q Dilog DU120 tape controller. Emulates TM11. 4 Drives. Pertec I/O -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Oct 7 02:30:42 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: BSD 2.9 In-Reply-To: ; from pat@purdueriots.com on Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 17:56:51 CEST References: Message-ID: <20021007090725.M1254@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.10.06 17:56 Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Does anyone know where I could find a distribution of BSD 2.9 that I > could install on my PDP-11/23. http://www.tuhs.org/ http://www.pups.org/ -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Oct 7 04:06:00 2002 From: jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Mystery QBus cards In-Reply-To: <10210070150.ZM26093@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3DA06A30.6050908@rogers.com> <10210070150.ZM26093@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20021007091633.GA30912@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 12:50:54AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > I always get the QIC numbers confused. Which are the interface > descriptions and which are the tape formats? http://www.qic.org/html/qicstan.html Most common on "real" computers are: QIC-02 1/4-Inch Cartridge Tape Drive Intelligent Interface QIC-36 1/4-Inch Cartridge Tape Drive Basic Interface -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cbajpai at attbi.com Mon Oct 7 06:52:01 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? In-Reply-To: <1918158780.20021007001702@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <000501c26df8$104d17c0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Should someone check on him to see if everything is OK? A couple of years ago I was exchanging email with a guy down in Texas about his TRS-80 Model 1 which he wanted to give way. Didn't hear from in a while, so I sent an "what's up" message. Got a message some time later from his daughter that he passed away shortly after that message. Strangely enough he packaged up the computer before he passed away and his daughter was kind enough to send it. Weird. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 1:17 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Richard Erlacher? On Sunday, October 6, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > So, does anyone know what ever happend to Richard Erlacher? As far as his list membership is concerned... Some time ago, his email account began to spam the list with harmful attachments. I put him into moderated mode and demanded that he fix the problem. He did not, so I removed him from the list. I don't remember when, why, or how they stopped, but it's been a while since I saw anything from him (always a harmful-attachment mail) in the non-subscrber post queue. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Oct 7 07:24:01 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: New Acquisition References: <943396774.20021006201100@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <002d01c26dfc$6e499f20$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> You were in the middle of the USA and didn't stop by here? I'm hurt Jeff! :) Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 8:11 PM Subject: New Acquisition > A listmember and I met today, in a city in the middle of the USA, to > exchange some hardware. If you cctech-ers are wondering why you haven't got > list mail in several days, well, now you know the rest of the story. :-) > > He got a Stardent deskside that I originally rescued from a Austin, Texas > auction block. He also got a complete Xerox 8010 of his that I had > transported and stored for him from elsewhere in the country. > > I got a nearly-complete Symbolics 3650 system and a DEC Computer Lab. I've > always thought that LISP was an entertaining language, and that a LISP > machine would be equally entertaining (maybe bewildering). Now maybe I'll be > able to find out. Oh gods, that thing was heavy! But at least it came with a > very cool (albeit later-model) space cadet keyboard, like the one pictured > here: > > http://www.abstractscience.freeserve.co.uk/symbolics/photos/IO/index.html > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Oct 7 07:31:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? In-Reply-To: <1918158780.20021007001702@subatomix.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021007072229.0272a4d8@pc> At 12:17 AM 10/7/2002 -0500, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >On Sunday, October 6, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: >> So, does anyone know what ever happend to Richard Erlacher? > >As far as his list membership is concerned... Some time ago, his email >account began to spam the list with harmful attachments. A quick Google of "richard erlacher death notices" turned up nothing. :-) - John From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Mon Oct 7 08:08:00 2002 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific's Rescued...need help/info! In-Reply-To: <000701c26d54$09b60740$0101a8c0@jay> References: <000701c26d54$09b60740$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: Last night I rescued two Ohio Scientific systems: A challenger C1P and A Challenger II (which was a MUCH bigger box, and had a matching big, heavy dual 8" floppy cabinet). The haul also included an ADM-3A terminal (always wanted one of these), and a dual 5 1/4" floppy cabinet (don't know which system this goes to). I got no documentation, no software or anything (these were all picked up from a curb-side garbage pile!!)! I've always admired the ohio scientific systems...and almost bought a C1P back in the late 70's (it was a toss up between a C1P and a trs-80). Any pointers to documentation, software, specifications, etc?? I've read the stuff on a careful process to power-up an altair...does this apply to these systems too (I don't have much in the way of electronic test equipment or power supplies). thanks much! Man...I hate to think of these classic's going landfill...... gotta save 'em all! -Bob bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 7 08:45:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Newton Karma (was RE: 10 years) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021007134625.48234.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > Speaking of which... somebody must have a Newton??? And if it's you, > > Sellam, then you need to give it up... both an Eo 440 and a Newton... > > that's a lot of karma! :-) > > Newtons are relatively easy to find (certainly easier than an EO 440). > Yes, I also have a Newton. But it was very hard earned karma, so please > cut me some slack :) I don't have a Newton myself, but my girlfriend does. She got it years before meeting me. She doesn't believe her when I tell her the kind of "geek points" she earned. Between that and her teaching herself to build web pages with a text editor (again, before she met me), I think I'm pretty lucky. In return, I helped her move from office work to a geek job. Now she's an operator for a data center with NT, UNIX and 36-bit machines! See how much karma a Newton conveys! -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Oct 7 09:21:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: PDP-8 available in NZ ? In-Reply-To: <20021007040341.74712.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021007092357.01b39730@ubanproductions.com> I was forworded this email. If there is someone in the NZ area, you might want to check this out. I have no association with this, so please don't send me email about it... --tom -----Original Message----- From: mark [mailto:mark@tcode.tcs.auckland.ac.nz] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 4:45 AM Subject: PDP 8 Dear Sir. I have a PDP 8 (circa 1965). Is there a market for such a museum piece? Has it a value? Sincerely Mark R. Titchener -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021007/8346f2a4/attachment.html From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 7 09:24:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Pentium BIOS Writer's Guide? Message-ID: Does anyone have the first version of the Pentium BIOS Writer's Guide? If so, please contact me. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 7 09:58:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021007072229.0272a4d8@pc> Message-ID: <001301c26e12$07b89840$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > A quick Google of "richard erlacher death notices" > turned up nothing. :-) A similar Yahoo of +"richard erlacher"+death turned up his name in the proximity of "beating a horse to death". No surprise there. John A. From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 7 10:09:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021007072229.0272a4d8@pc> <001301c26e12$07b89840$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00bc01c26e13$a0e9b520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > A quick Google of "richard erlacher death notices" > turned up nothing. :-) A similar Yahoo of +"richard erlacher"+death turned up his name in the proximity of "beating a horse to death". No surprise there. John A. From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Oct 7 10:28:00 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Newton Karma (was RE: 10 years) Message-ID: >I don't have a Newton myself, but my girlfriend does. She got it >years before meeting me. She doesn't believe her when I tell her >the kind of "geek points" she earned. Between that and her teaching >herself to build web pages with a text editor (again, before she met >me), I think I'm pretty lucky. In return, I helped her move from >office work to a geek job. Now she's an operator for a data center >with NT, UNIX and 36-bit machines! > >See how much karma a Newton conveys! > GOD man, MARRY HER!!!! NOW!!!!! :-) :-) (and is her sister cute? :-) ) Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Oct 7 10:31:00 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? Message-ID: I pinged him today, and he's just fine, thanks ... Just busy with some other stuff ... Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Oct 7 10:32:01 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific's Rescued...need help/info! Message-ID: <21.254ecdea.2ad30354@aol.com> In a message dated 10/7/2002 9:10:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bbrown@harper.cc.il.us writes: << Last night I rescued two Ohio Scientific systems: A challenger C1P and A Challenger II (which was a MUCH bigger box, and had a matching big, heavy dual 8" floppy cabinet). The haul also included an ADM-3A terminal (always wanted one of these), and a dual 5 1/4" floppy cabinet (don't know which system this goes to). I got no documentation, no software or anything (these were all picked up from a curb-side garbage pile!!)! I've always admired the ohio scientific systems...and almost bought a C1P back in the late 70's (it was a toss up between a C1P and a trs-80). Any pointers to documentation, software, specifications, etc?? >> I have 5 C1P models including a plastic case one. I have schematics and shiny advertisements that must have came with the system. Interesting machines although I have not tested mine yet. The 4 I got last year have all sorts of switches and knobs on them. I think they were modded for extra video capabilities. From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Oct 7 10:44:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <00bc01c26e13$a0e9b520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021007072229.0272a4d8@pc> <001301c26e12$07b89840$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <00bc01c26e13$a0e9b520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <61613.12.13.226.13.1034005547.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Ok, I need some advice on what type of scope might be available for troubleshooting vintage computers. I have already decided that I need more than is necessary. I want to limit my choice to a economically priced portable LCD scope. However, I'm not familar with what is available. Any good choices? From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Oct 7 11:04:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <61613.12.13.226.13.1034005547.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: All LCD scopes are junk compared to a good tube scope. I understand that you're spec'ing a LCD scope, but seriously consider a Tektronix 2445. This is a four channel 150mhz scope, and they can be had for $400-$500. A 2465 is an even better choice, with the 2465B being the top of the line. However, 300mhz is far more than you'll ever use day to day, and the B, while having some nice features, drives the price up into the $1000-$1200 range. You can also find good deals on the P6131 probes for the 2400 series scopes. These are far more flexible than the after market Scopemaster probes. I've found new ones on eBay (unopened) for $35 on occasion. LCDs scopes are a compromise. The bandwidth is poor (though adequate for most 4Mhz systems), and do very poorly on dynamic signals. They're OK to capture a single image, but if you want to watch for jitter in a clock and such, they're useless. Again, I acknowledge you've said you wanted a LCD scope, but if this is to be a primary instrument, I would recommend a good tube scope instead. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 11:46 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting Ok, I need some advice on what type of scope might be available for troubleshooting vintage computers. I have already decided that I need more than is necessary. I want to limit my choice to a economically priced portable LCD scope. However, I'm not familar with what is available. Any good choices? From dundas at caltech.edu Mon Oct 7 11:33:00 2002 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: 11/44 rescue complete In-Reply-To: <3D9F3647.677A1C71@compsys.to> References: Message-ID: At 11:58 AM -0700 10/5/02, Jerome H. Fine wrote: >>Will Jennings wrote: > >> For what it's worth; RT-11 V4 seems to exist in both blue AND orange binder >> versions! And yes, the V4 manuals in blue do indeed have "PDP-11" style >> covers... Weird eh? > >Jerome Fine replies: > >Somewhere I seem to remember I have a set of V4.00 manuals >without ANY binders. Should I save them or toss them? It is >only about 18 inches of paper? > >Sincerely yours, > >Jerome Fine If these were somehow to make their way to Al Kossow, would he be willing to scan and make them available on his FTP site? John From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Oct 7 12:08:00 2002 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021007170950.67438.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> --- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > All LCD scopes are junk compared to a good tube > scope. > LCDs scopes are a compromise. The bandwidth is > poor (though adequate for > most 4Mhz systems), and do very poorly on dynamic > signals. They're OK to > capture a single image, but if you want to watch for > jitter in a clock and > such, they're useless. > Huh? What? My 200Mhz, 2Gs/sec Tek TDS LCD scope works just fine thank you... steve __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Oct 7 12:20:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting References: <20021007170950.67438.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DA1C318.7000807@tiac.net> Works just fine, for what measurments? Analog scopes have clear advantages in some cases, digital scopes in others. LCD scopes are always digital scopes, and so they have some of the issues common to CRT based digital scopes. In most cases, a good quality digital scope (I use a Tek 2430A) can be pushed to do what comes easily to a much lower quality analog scope, but it takes much more work to get the scope setup just right. Manufactuers still make analog scopes for this very reason, which type works best depends on the types of signals, and the types of measurments being made. For people just learning to use an oscilloscope, I generally reccomend you start with an analog scope, as they are much less likely to 'lie' to you when you don't have the scope triggered correctly than a digital scope. This should not become an argument over which type of scope is 'better' than the other. Each type excells at some things, and not others. But which type of scope should be used for Vintage Compters is easy. A vintage scope of the correct era for the machine when it was manufactured, of course! steve wrote: >--- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > >> All LCD scopes are junk compared to a good tube >>scope. > LCDs scopes are a compromise. The >> >bandwidth is > >>poor (though adequate for >>most 4Mhz systems), and do very poorly on dynamic >>signals. They're OK to >>capture a single image, but if you want to watch for >>jitter in a clock and >>such, they're useless. >> > >Huh? What? My 200Mhz, 2Gs/sec Tek TDS LCD scope works >just fine thank you... > >steve > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More >http://faith.yahoo.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021007/9a2222e7/attachment.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 7 12:23:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <20021007170950.67438.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > All LCD scopes are junk compared to a good tube > > scope. > LCDs scopes are a compromise. The For working on vintage computers, should you use a vintage scope? Can somebody advise me how much to charge for an NLS (they later became Kaypro) model 215 (dual trace 15 MHz) portable scope? The batteries are beyond redemption. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Oct 7 13:17:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: References: <61613.12.13.226.13.1034005547.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <61635.12.13.226.18.1034014700.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Actually, this is good info. I have limited my choice to LCD simply because of the size/weight issues. I have an area that I work most of the time that is not permanently set up. I was hoping to get something to allow easy tear down and setup. But, if LCD are junk, maybe I need to rethink that position. Mike > All LCD scopes are junk compared to a good tube scope. I understand > that > you're spec'ing a LCD scope, but seriously consider a Tektronix 2445. > This is a four channel 150mhz scope, and they can be had for $400-$500. > A 2465 is an even better choice, with the 2465B being the top of the > line. However, 300mhz is far more than you'll ever use day to day, and > the B, while having some nice features, drives the price up into the > $1000-$1200 range. > > You can also find good deals on the P6131 probes for the 2400 series > scopes. These are far more flexible than the after market Scopemaster > probes. I've found new ones on eBay (unopened) for $35 on occasion. > > LCDs scopes are a compromise. The bandwidth is poor (though adequate > for > most 4Mhz systems), and do very poorly on dynamic signals. They're OK > to capture a single image, but if you want to watch for jitter in a > clock and such, they're useless. > > Again, I acknowledge you've said you wanted a LCD scope, but if this > is to > be a primary instrument, I would recommend a good tube scope instead. > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 11:46 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting > > > Ok, I need some advice on what type of scope might be available for > troubleshooting vintage computers. > I have already decided that I need more than is necessary. I want to > limit my choice to a economically priced portable LCD scope. However, > I'm not familar with what is available. > Any good choices? From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Oct 7 13:21:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <3DA1C318.7000807@tiac.net> References: <20021007170950.67438.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> <3DA1C318.7000807@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20021007182152.GA10627@www.4mcnabb.net> On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 01:23:36PM -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: > But which type of scope should be used for Vintage Compters is easy. > > A vintage scope of the correct era for the machine when it was > manufactured, of course! > Mine is a Tekronix RM-503. I also have an old RCA scope, plus a Kenwood Service Monitor scope (SM-220) that can handle 1KW of RF at up to 150 Mhz. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 7 13:23:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <61613.12.13.226.13.1034005547.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQue st.net> References: <00bc01c26e13$a0e9b520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <5.1.1.6.0.20021007072229.0272a4d8@pc> <001301c26e12$07b89840$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <00bc01c26e13$a0e9b520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021007142635.4d771556@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The all time classic scope has to be the Tektronix 465. It's the right vintage to go with most of the classic computers too. Joe At 08:45 AM 10/7/02 -0700, you wrote: >Ok, I need some advice on what type of scope might be available for >troubleshooting vintage computers. >I have already decided that I need more than is necessary. I want to >limit my choice to a economically priced portable LCD scope. However, I'm >not familar with what is available. >Any good choices? > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 7 13:28:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: References: <20021007170950.67438.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021007143216.4d779b52@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:24 AM 10/7/02 -0700, you wrote: >> > All LCD scopes are junk compared to a good tube >> > scope. > LCDs scopes are a compromise. The > >For working on vintage computers, should you use a vintage scope? > > >Can somebody advise me how much to charge for an NLS (they later became >Kaypro) model 215 (dual trace 15 MHz) portable scope? The batteries are >beyond redemption. Is that the little tiny scope that NLS made with the screen that's about 1" across? I have one and it's usefull for some things such as checking for the presense of a signal but the screen is too small for a lot of uses. Therefore I wouldn't recommend it for someone's only or first scope. You should be able to remove the battteries and replace them without too much trouble. I replaced the batteries in mine about 15 -18 years ago. Yes, they're still good. That's why I insist on the Japanese made Sanyo batteries! Joe From patrick at evocative.com Mon Oct 7 13:33:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021007142635.4d771556@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > The all time classic scope has to be the Tektronix 465. It's > the right vintage to go with most of the classic computers too. > > Joe I've got one, but it's in dire need of calibration. Do you know anyone who can do this? Patrick From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Oct 7 13:33:50 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Semicon Cross Ref help needed Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126FD4@MAIL10> Hello, all: I got my hands on an unpopulated S100 motherboard by Vector Electronics and I want to put it together for testing purposes. It's an active-terminated board and I'm having trouble finding equivalent parts for two transistors: NPN power: GE D44C1 or NSI D44C4 (TO-220) PNP power: GE D41D1 or NSI D45C4 (TO-202)(NSI is National Semiconductor) Any help would be appreciated. Rich From patrick at evocative.com Mon Oct 7 13:38:01 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: Etak Navigator Message-ID: I have an Etak Navigator, serial number 67, that was at one time installed in my car, but many years ago was removed and relegated to a box in storage. I pulled it out a few months ago, but I have no idea where the tape drive is. I've moved many times since I worked there. I've contacted Etak (now Tele Atlas), but so far my inquiries have fallen on deaf ears. Does anyone out there happen to have a tape drive, or the whole system, that they'd be willing to sell/trade/etc? TIA, Patrick From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 7 13:41:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:48 2005 Subject: FYI: Kevin Mitnick's Laptop auction Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021007144529.0f4790ec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The auctions for Kevin Mitnick's two laptops have closed. One reached $15,200 and the other reached $14,100! The $14,100 didn't reach the minimum! That's got to be some kind of records for laptops! There's something very odd going on with the first auction, the winner and the seller both have -1 feedback ratings! Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Oct 7 13:47:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: 11/44 rescue complete In-Reply-To: References: <3D9F3647.677A1C71@compsys.to> Message-ID: >>Jerome Fine replies: >> >>Somewhere I seem to remember I have a set of V4.00 manuals >>without ANY binders. Should I save them or toss them? It is >>only about 18 inches of paper? >> >>Sincerely yours, >> >>Jerome Fine > >If these were somehow to make their way to Al Kossow, would he be willing >to scan and make them available on his FTP site? > >John Unfortunatly I don't think such material can legally be posted on an FTP site. RT-11 doc's are a bit tricky in that you can still get a set from Mentec. Please do not even consider making such material available on the net without first checking with them. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 7 13:48:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20021007142635.4d771556@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021007144936.0f479630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Yes, but he's pretty busy right now. I'll forward your E-mail to him and see if he can look at it. If all else fails, I have a manual for the 465. FWIW a friend of mine just bought a 465B that had problems with two of the atteuation/gain settings on one channel. He opened it up and opened the attenuator and found two of the mounting screws loose. Apparently they shorted or opened the ground to the attenuator. He tightened the screws and all is well now. Joe At 11:34 AM 10/7/02 -0700, you wrote: >> The all time classic scope has to be the Tektronix 465. It's >> the right vintage to go with most of the classic computers too. >> >> Joe > >I've got one, but it's in dire need of calibration. Do you know anyone who >can do this? > >Patrick > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 7 13:48:12 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Etak Navigator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021007145227.0f47bd94@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> What the heck is an Etak Navigator and why does it have a tape drive? Joe At 11:39 AM 10/7/02 -0700, you wrote: >I have an Etak Navigator, serial number 67, that was at one time installed >in my car, but many years ago was removed and relegated to a box in storage. >I pulled it out a few months ago, but I have no idea where the tape drive >is. I've moved many times since I worked there. I've contacted Etak (now >Tele Atlas), but so far my inquiries have fallen on deaf ears. Does anyone >out there happen to have a tape drive, or the whole system, that they'd be >willing to sell/trade/etc? TIA, Patrick > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Oct 7 13:58:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <20021007170950.67438.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Huh? What? My 200Mhz, 2Gs/sec Tek TDS LCD scope works just fine thank you..." Yea, and I bet you didn't pay $800 for it, either. I perhaps should have expounded my distrust/distaste for the LCD scopes to more clearly say "handheld" scopes. I had a TDS scope at IBM (4 actually), and I dearly loved those things. They weren't *always* a substitute for a 2465B, but in most cases they were. And, ironically, they run Windows 95... I did boot Linux on one much to the consternation of the Tek guy, tho. Couldn't use it as a scope, but it really paniced him to see the scope tore open, and a spare drive hanging out of it. Oh yea, I also added a network card (supported under W95), and was able to FTP files off to the server to backup images and configurations. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of steve Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 13:10 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting --- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > All LCD scopes are junk compared to a good tube > scope. > LCDs scopes are a compromise. The bandwidth is > poor (though adequate for > most 4Mhz systems), and do very poorly on dynamic > signals. They're OK to > capture a single image, but if you want to watch for > jitter in a clock and > such, they're useless. > Huh? What? My 200Mhz, 2Gs/sec Tek TDS LCD scope works just fine thank you... steve __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From jim at jkearney.com Mon Oct 7 14:35:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting References: Message-ID: <011801c26e38$e6081af0$1301090a@jkearney.com> I haven't seen one of those for years! That was my very first scope... my Jr. High abutted Nonlinear and I used to go over there and scrounge parts after school. One of the techs sold me a refurb that wasn't in good enough condition to send out again for, I think, $50. I'd still have it if it weren't for a major UPS disaster shipping stuff home from college. When you work out a price, drop me a line please! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 1:24 PM Subject: RE: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting > > > All LCD scopes are junk compared to a good tube > > > scope. > LCDs scopes are a compromise. The > > For working on vintage computers, should you use a vintage scope? > > > Can somebody advise me how much to charge for an NLS (they later became > Kaypro) model 215 (dual trace 15 MHz) portable scope? The batteries are > beyond redemption. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From patrick at evocative.com Mon Oct 7 14:36:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Etak Navigator In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021007145227.0f47bd94@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Joe, Back in the mid-80's, Etak began shipping what I believe is the first commercially available in-vehicle navigation system. This system was the precursor to today's driver-guidance systems, and Etak's patents are probably in most if not all of them. The original Etak Navigator was a specially-packaged 286 system with 256MB RAM and 256MB ROM, and a four-track tape drive on which some of the "OS" and the digital maps were stored. The tapes didn't hold much, so for the San Francisco area, for example, you had four or five tapes--when you drove off the end of the map, you changed tapes to match your new location. The map moved as you drove, just like today's systems, but instead of the fancy color raster display, it had a green vector display. It had address geocoding (the ability to convert a street address to a lat/long point). It worked by using a compass mounted somewhere in the car (typically inside the headliner) and two wheel sensors on the rear wheels (which magnetic strips installed on the wheel rims themselves). The system worked by "dead reckoning" (actually "ded. reckoning" for "deduced"), which basically meant that you told it where you were when you first installed it, and then took it on a short calibration drive, and from then on, the system self-corrected and got increasingly better at following the map. No GPS at that time... that came much later, and obviously improved the accuracy and simplicity of the system. For those of you in the San Francisco area during the 70's and 80's, you could buy these at various auto-stereo places for around $3000-$3500 installed (does anyone remember Steven Matthew David, owner of Matthews TV and Stereo, top of the hill, Daly City! :-)) It was also used in emergency vehicles: coupled with a data radio, a central dispatch could watch a moving display of paramedic and fire vehicles driving around. Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 2:52 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Etak Navigator > > > What the heck is an Etak Navigator and why does it have a tape drive? > > Joe > > At 11:39 AM 10/7/02 -0700, you wrote: > >I have an Etak Navigator, serial number 67, that was at one time > installed > >in my car, but many years ago was removed and relegated to a box > in storage. > >I pulled it out a few months ago, but I have no idea where the tape drive > >is. I've moved many times since I worked there. I've contacted > Etak (now > >Tele Atlas), but so far my inquiries have fallen on deaf ears. > Does anyone > >out there happen to have a tape drive, or the whole system, that > they'd be > >willing to sell/trade/etc? TIA, Patrick > > > > > > > From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Oct 7 14:43:00 2002 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021007194404.21954.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> --- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > "Huh? What? My 200Mhz, 2Gs/sec Tek TDS LCD scope > works just fine thank > you..." > > Yea, and I bet you didn't pay $800 for it, either. Correct. > I perhaps should have > expounded my distrust/distaste for the LCD scopes to > more clearly say > "handheld" scopes. Oh, those things, is that what the original poster was taking about? I hate all the handhelds, the display size alone is all the justification you need not to get one, ...my ideal scope would have about a 5 foot long display steve __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Oct 7 14:56:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <20021007194404.21954.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021007194404.21954.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <60909.12.13.226.98.1034020666.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> >> I perhaps should have >> expounded my distrust/distaste for the LCD scopes to >> more clearly say >> "handheld" scopes. > > Oh, those things, is that what the original poster was > taking about? I hate all the handhelds, the display > size alone is all the justification you need not to > get one, ...my ideal scope would have about a 5 foot > long display > > steve Well, since I was the original poster, I have a good idea what I was talking about. I was referring to an LCD scope that was portable (didn't specify handheld) that would be suitable for vintage computer work. The only ones I have seen to refer to are the newer Tek scopes that are about 12" wide and have a 5" (or so) LCD display. I need something light weight and easily to move around. From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Oct 7 15:10:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: FYI: Kevin Mitnick's Laptop auction In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021007144529.0f4790ec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021007131247.028bc5f0@mail.zipcon.net> At 02:45 PM 10/7/02 +0000, you wrote: > The auctions for Kevin Mitnick's two laptops have closed. One reached > $15,200 and the other reached $14,100! The $14,100 didn't reach the > minimum! That's got to be some kind of records for laptops! There's > something very odd going on with the first auction, the winner and the > seller both have -1 feedback ratings! > > > > > > Joe here's the feedback.... for the 1st auciton. Complaint : I have never bid on Ebay for any item - someone is having someone on. Response by tsstechgoddess - Bidder replied name/address to eBay. No reply to e-mails after bid. Fake bid. From dundas at caltech.edu Mon Oct 7 15:15:01 2002 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: 11/44 rescue complete In-Reply-To: References: <3D9F3647.677A1C71@compsys.to> Message-ID: Sorry, my mistake. I was under the impression that Mentec would not be concerned with V4. Similarly I have found various RSTS manuals online and assumed that since they were >>Jerome Fine replies: >>> >>>Somewhere I seem to remember I have a set of V4.00 manuals >>>without ANY binders. Should I save them or toss them? It is >>>only about 18 inches of paper? >>> >>>Sincerely yours, >>> >>>Jerome Fine >> >>If these were somehow to make their way to Al Kossow, would he be willing >>to scan and make them available on his FTP site? >> >>John > >Unfortunatly I don't think such material can legally be posted on an FTP >site. RT-11 doc's are a bit tricky in that you can still get a set from >Mentec. Please do not even consider making such material available on the >net without first checking with them. > > Zane >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Oct 7 15:32:00 2002 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <60909.12.13.226.98.1034020666.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <20021007203354.30714.qmail@web12401.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike wrote: > Well, since I was the original poster, I have a good > idea what I was > talking about. > I was referring to an LCD scope that was portable > (didn't specify > handheld) that would be suitable for vintage > computer work. The only ones > I have seen to refer to are the newer Tek scopes > that are about 12" wide > and have a 5" (or so) LCD display. > I need something light weight and easily to move > around. > > Hi Mike, Oh, ok, those are nice portable scopes, I did own a Tek 210, which is the bottom of the line older version of the type you are referring to and I built and debugged many a classic computer with it, it did everything I needed it to do, being very light and small they are nice to move around too, I recommend one. Lecroy makes a similar one, but the Tek's are very popular in industry and used ones can be found on ebay for $600 or so. I believe HP makes a larger portable with a built-in 16 channel logic analyzer, which is very nice, but out of my price range. A analog scope will have a better front end for the same price, but I don't have the patience to use one for any of my projects (personal preference) and of course they are much larger. steve steve __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Oct 7 15:37:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: NLS Scope value (was scope for vintage computers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > All LCD scopes are junk compared to a good tube > > > scope. > LCDs scopes are a compromise. The From having owned many of both kinds, I still prefer a tiny CRT based scope to a big LCD - and I do mostly audio and low RF stuff... the Tek LCD rig is not bad, but when you factor in the 'what it does:what it costs' relation, then.... > > For working on vintage computers, should you use a vintage scope? Many, many old photos of IBM and Univac consoles have the obligatory Tek 545B on a cart, waiting to be Useful. And of course, Tony Duel has recently converted his 555 to portable use, so he's Ready for Anything. (He reprotedly uses a household biomass methane generator to fire a vintage 1898 Eppley 20HP steam engine, leather belted to a vintage 1911 Thompson-Houston DC generator, the output of which is fed to a DC to AC convertor of his own design, the first in England to use cast-off sodium vapor streetlamps for the purpose.. all of it controlled by a Perq on wheels.) [Advance appointments for service calls are recommended] ;} Meself, I have a couple of 465Bs, an HP rackmount something, and an old HP 140 mainframe with a Nelson-Ross spectrum analyzer stuck in it. Also, in the portable area, I found a cute little Tek 213 DMM scope, which is actually smaller than the NLS machines, and has a cool digital multi-meter function that displays on the screen in vector numerals. Came with most of another one (for Partz) and all manuals. Gotta love Ham Swap Meets. > > Can somebody advise me how much to charge for an NLS (they later became > Kaypro) model 215 (dual trace 15 MHz) portable scope? The batteries are > beyond redemption. > I see the 215s in working shape typically in the $75 to 150 range, depending on degree of pristininity and presence of manuals, probes, leatherette case, etc. Two things are 'gotchas' with the NLS scopes: the CRT, and the fact that they use old CMOS 4016 quad bilateral switch ICs on place of 'real' switches. If you encounter one that seems to 'light up' but is otherwise autistic, it almost always can be traced to one or more of the 4016s dying. They are now made of Unobtanium, and the 'replacement' pinouts and impedances are different, so a kludge is called for, if original 4016s can't be scrounged. For your particular example, I'd offer you $35 and let you talk me up to 45 or 50... if it was otherwise in good-looking shape, and had the case with it. They're pretty simple units and easy to work on... Cheers John From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Oct 7 15:39:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Etak Navigator In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20021007145227.0f47bd94@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021007153321.0292c678@pc> At 12:37 PM 10/7/2002 -0700, Patrick Rigney wrote: >Back in the mid-80's, Etak began shipping what I believe is the first >commercially available in-vehicle navigation system. I think Amiga designer Jay Miner once worked at Etak, but my memory is not confirmed by Google. - John From jim at jkearney.com Mon Oct 7 16:01:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: NLS Scope value (was scope for vintage computers) References: Message-ID: <01b801c26e44$e2aa5380$1301090a@jkearney.com> > they use old CMOS 4016 quad bilateral switch ICs on place of 'real' > switches. If you encounter one that seems to 'light up' but is otherwise > autistic, it almost always can be traced to one or more of the 4016s > dying. They are now made of Unobtanium, and the 'replacement' pinouts and > impedances are different, so a kludge is called for, if original 4016s > can't be scrounged. What do you mean? CD4016s are still available from a lot of sources, even Digi-Key. Is it an odd, non-DIP package? From donm at cts.com Mon Oct 7 16:02:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > It is possible that it is 760K, I haven't looked up the model number on the > floppy drive in my 3068EP yet, I was just guessing due to the lateness of > the machine.. > > Will J The several German sites that I visited via google all indicated 1.2MB 5.25" drive. - don > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 7 16:12:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks Message-ID: I looked the model of the drive up, and sure enough, 1.2MB.. Which is exactly what I had figured. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 7 16:15:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: scanning PDP-11 software manuals (was Re: 11/44 rescue complete) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33977.64.169.63.74.1034025382.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "John A. Dundas III" wrote: > If these were somehow to make their way to Al Kossow, would he be > willing to scan and make them available on his FTP site? I can't really speak for Al, but since he uses my Ricoh scanner for a lot of his scanning, I'll try anyhow. :-) The problem with putting PDP-11 software manuals online is that Mentec still owns and sells this stuff. If someone were to convince Mentec to grant permission to put scans of PDP-11 software manuals online, I think Al would be happy to do it. Note that some PDP-11 software is NOT owned by Mentec. Obvious examples are DOS/Batch, IAS, DSM (Mumps), and diagnostics. Al has already scanned some DOS/Batch docs, but I'm sure that if more of these manuals were provided, he'd get them scanned. You'd have to check with Al to be sure, though. Eric From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Mon Oct 7 16:16:00 2002 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <17yfFE-1vxztYC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> On Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:50:13 -0700 (PDT), Don Maslin wrote: > > >On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >> > We had an old Altos 3068 (running a 68010 chip I belive) that died. We are >> Perhaps somebody else here has enough familiarity with his model of >> computer to provide some of the information that he failed to. > >Fred, several sites that I dug up via google show the mass storage of >the machine to be 5.25" 1.2MB floppy and 20MB hard disk. Sounds like >it used 512 byte sectors in Unix form. Hi.. he should use ANADISK and TELEDISK. Anadisk to see the contence of the disk and to make a dump (including sector/track informations) of it. Teledisk will make an image he could sent to us for expecting the format. I'm interested in an image for testing. MfG. Fritz Chwolka >> collecting old computers just for fun << << at www.alterechner.de >> From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Oct 7 16:16:17 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > I looked the model of the drive up, and sure enough, 1.2MB.. Which is > exactly what I had figured. I think the source of the confusion is that the Z80-based Altos all had DSQD drives. Doc From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 7 16:49:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: PDP 11/44 working In-Reply-To: pete@mindy (Pete Turnbull) "Re: PDP 11/44 working" (Oct 7, 6:57) References: <10210070757.ZM26268@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10210071835.ZM26614@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 7, 6:57, Pete Turnbull wrote: > DQ686 is an ESDI controller, with MSCP protocol. Oops, I meant DU686 (though a DQ is much the same thing, only for QBus instead of Unibus). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 7 16:49:53 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Mystery QBus cards In-Reply-To: Jochen Kunz "Re: Mystery QBus cards" (Oct 7, 11:16) References: <3DA06A30.6050908@rogers.com> <10210070150.ZM26093@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20021007091633.GA30912@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <10210071837.ZM26619@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 7, 11:16, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 12:50:54AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > I always get the QIC numbers confused. Which are the interface > > descriptions and which are the tape formats? > http://www.qic.org/html/qicstan.html Thanks, I've bookmarked that so I have (almost) no excuse now! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Oct 7 16:54:01 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Newton Karma (was RE: 10 years) References: Message-ID: <3DA201FE.7B88B486@gifford.co.uk> Rich Beaudry wrote: > >I don't have a Newton myself, but my girlfriend does. ... > >Now she's an operator for a data center > >with NT, UNIX and 36-bit machines! > GOD man, MARRY HER!!!! NOW!!!!! Will somebody *please* tell me where I can meet women like this? :-) ObClassicCmp: Acquired a PET 2001 the other day. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Oct 7 16:58:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: 10 years References: Message-ID: <3DA202D7.73B336A4@gifford.co.uk> Patrick Rigney wrote: > Speaking of which... somebody must have a Newton??? Yes, I have one: a MessagePad model H1000. I also have an Amstrad PenPad PDA 600, an HP OmniGo, a Philips Nino and a Microwriter AgendA. Ooops, the Newton's only nine years old; I claim "cool factor"! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 7 17:01:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > I looked the model of the drive up, and sure enough, 1.2MB.. Which is > exactly what I had figured. THANK YOU! Would it be convenient for you to provide some basic information about the machine? Processor? Memory? Disk capacity? Disk format parameters even? So far, all we have heard about it is the MODEL NUMBER, your confirmation of the drive model, and discussion between people who haven't seen a machine, and don't know what it is, about what they've found out on the web. I trust your statement about the drive, since you have looked at it. I do NOT trust a website that says QD or 96TPI or 1.2M, since many of them don't know the differences. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Oct 7 17:52:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: scanning PDP-11 software manuals (was Re: 11/44 rescue complete) References: <33977.64.169.63.74.1034025382.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3DA21062.5E55FBB3@compsys.to> >Eric Smith wrote: > The problem with putting PDP-11 software manuals online is that Mentec > still owns and sells this stuff. If someone were to convince Mentec > to grant permission to put scans of PDP-11 software manuals online, > I think Al would be happy to do it. Jerome Fine replies: In respect to the V4.00 RT-11 manuals, I still have not found them, but will continue to look. However, based on the notice that someone posted (Zane was it you? that DEC allows anyone to make a copy of any DOCs that are not longer being sold by DEC, I can't see that there would be a problem with scanning RT-11 V4.00 DOCs and putting them on a CD. From there, it should be possible to at least distribute them privately until the issue is resolved. > Note that some PDP-11 software is NOT owned by Mentec. Obvious > examples are DOS/Batch, IAS, DSM (Mumps), and diagnostics. Al has > already scanned some DOS/Batch docs, but I'm sure that if more of > these manuals were provided, he'd get them scanned. As for who actually owns the present DOCs for RT-11, there really seems to be something VERY curious (fishy?) going on. Since the only available DOCs for RT-11 are for V5.06 (which are the same IDENTICAL DOCs as are being used for V5.07 - with the addition from Mentec of just the V5.07 Release Notes which are mostly useless from what I have been told), it seems possible that DEC still owns the actual copyright on the DOCs themselves. In addition, I know the DEC approved of making copies of even V5.04G DOCs for RT-11 since they are no longer being sold by DEC. And there certainly seems to be a blackout on ALMOST ALL detailed information about V5.07 of RT-11. For example, I would very much like to add a large number of bugs to the SECRET "Mentec V5.07 RT-11 Bug List", but I am prevented from doing so because the list is of course SECRET. > You'd have to check with Al to be sure, though. Maybe it would be better to have Al scan a set of at least V5.03 DOCs for RT-11. Since DEC certainly is not selling V5.03 if V5.04G is not available, I can't see why putting V5.03 DOCs on a CD would not be permitted as well. Perhaps either Al or anyone else willing to scan a set of RT-11 DOCs could contact me. Al are you still at the same e-mail address? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Oct 7 18:11:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021007143216.4d779b52@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20021007231228.39227.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> FWIW, I sold this model on eBay last year for $80.00 or thereabouts, with good (replaced) batteries. I liked it very much and was the original owner. I used it in field service (just simple stuff) but I don't move around anymore so I got a Tek 464 (harder to get parts for than a 465, but really better with analog storage). The DM44 (meter) option is nice if you don't have a frequency counter, BTW. It was an option on the 465 also. There is a Yahoo newsgroup for Tek scope restoration; they formerly discussed only tube models but now transistors are OK. --- Joe wrote: > At 10:24 AM 10/7/02 -0700, you wrote: > >> > All LCD scopes are junk compared to a good > tube > >> > scope. > LCDs scopes are a compromise. The > > > >For working on vintage computers, should you use a > vintage scope? > > > > > >Can somebody advise me how much to charge for an > NLS (they later became > >Kaypro) model 215 (dual trace 15 MHz) portable > scope? The batteries are > >beyond redemption. > > Is that the little tiny scope that NLS made with > the screen that's about 1" across? I have one and > it's usefull for some things such as checking for > the presense of a signal but the screen is too small > for a lot of uses. Therefore I wouldn't recommend it > for someone's only or first scope. > > You should be able to remove the battteries and > replace them without too much trouble. I replaced > the batteries in mine about 15 -18 years ago. Yes, > they're still good. That's why I insist on the > Japanese made Sanyo batteries! > > Joe > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Oct 7 18:19:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Etak Navigator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Back in the mid-80's, Etak began shipping what I believe is the first > commercially available in-vehicle navigation system. This system was the > precursor to today's driver-guidance systems, and Etak's patents are > probably in most if not all of them. The original Etak Navigator was a > specially-packaged 286 system with 256MB RAM and 256MB ROM, and a four-track > tape drive on which some of the "OS" and the digital maps were stored. I'm guessing you meant to say "256KB RAM and 256KB ROM"; otherwise, that computer would've probably cost several times more than the car in which it was used--at least back in the mid-1980s. -brian. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Oct 7 18:49:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021007235012.87621.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> I've gotten lucky, twice, on eBay, paying $200 for a 464 (like a 465 with an analog storage capability). It had recent (but out of date) calibration from the Canadian Air Force. It worked for 1.5 years and then a hi-voltage diode went. Instead of fixing it, I picked up another, also in good calibration from HP (really!), and excellent condition on eBay for only $45.00, with the DM44 option. It was close to cheaper than fixing it, so now I have spare parts (darned important, given that most parts are made from unobtanium). 465's are expensive because they are so popular. Not everyone knows what a 464 is and no one searches for it. If you get a 464/5/etc, make sure it has a front cover if you plan to use it portably. I also picked up (locally) a K212 scope cart only dusty, for only $25.00. A logic analyzer is also a nice thing to have, I have a loaded Tek 1230 and a working spare, but that's another subject.... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From patrick at evocative.com Mon Oct 7 19:04:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Etak Navigator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brian, you are so right. My bad. New habits die hard. Thanks for spotting the error. --Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Brian Chase > Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 4:21 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Etak Navigator > > > On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > Back in the mid-80's, Etak began shipping what I believe is the first > > commercially available in-vehicle navigation system. This > system was the > > precursor to today's driver-guidance systems, and Etak's patents are > > probably in most if not all of them. The original Etak Navigator was a > > specially-packaged 286 system with 256MB RAM and 256MB ROM, and > a four-track > > tape drive on which some of the "OS" and the digital maps were stored. > > I'm guessing you meant to say "256KB RAM and 256KB ROM"; otherwise, that > computer would've probably cost several times more than the car in which > it was used--at least back in the mid-1980s. > > -brian. > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 7 19:09:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Tek 1230 LA RE: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <20021007235012.87621.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021007201234.492f6338@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:50 PM 10/7/02 -0700, steve wrote: >A logic analyzer is also a nice thing to have, I have >a loaded Tek 1230 and a working spare, but that's >another subject.... Steve, do you know if anyone has tried making copies of the disassebler ROMs for the Tek 1230/124x LAs? I've heard some talk about it but don't know if any one's actually done it yet. FYI: I looked through the old HP terminals around here today but none of them had keyboards. I do know someone that has (had?) a keyboard but I don't know if it's still around. I'll keep looking. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 7 19:11:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Etak Navigator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > specially-packaged 286 system with 256MB RAM and 256MB ROM, and > I'm guessing you meant to say "256KB RAM and 256KB ROM"; otherwise, that > computer would've probably cost several times more than the car in which > it was used--at least back in the mid-1980s. Plus, the regular models of the 286 had 24 address lines, and therefore, anything more than 16M would have required some sort of bank-switching. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Oct 7 19:30:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Etak Navigator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c26e62$12dba4b0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I was working for a subsidiary of Magnavox in the early 1980s and we were producing and selling what we called the "AVLS" or Advanced Vehicle Locating System. Ours was also a dead reckoning system with a Magnavox SatNav/Loran C box keeping our locations as accurate as possible. This was the same system Magnavox sold for marine applications and it was amazingly accurate for the pre-GPS days. We would pester the USGS for their best maps and manually digitize them using AutoCad. The data was then loaded onto hellishly expensive Gridcase 8086 based machines (the old magnesium ones with the red plasma displays.) We could plot a moving vehicles position to within a few yards if we were correctly calibrated. Our accuracy was better just after a Sat fix and worst just before one, of course. The vehicle data was also passed back to a base station for display there (via packet radio or something like it - I wasn't too close to that part of the system.) Rather then create broad area maps and expect to sell this system to individuals we specifically marketed to agencies that could use the information to track their vehicles. A couple of Canadian cities loved the idea and bought it to improve their EMS service, tracking ambulance and paramedic locations real-time and dispatching based on actual response times rather then their theoretical response times from base positions. We also sold an installation to a police force in CT that I'll not mention. Those units "mysteriously" became very unreliable. Many of the antennas were gummed up daily (really - they'd stuff chewing gum wrappers in the antenna base to fubar the reception) and several of the units themselves fell apart (with the assistance of the butt end of a shotgun or two). Eventually the local Police union killed the deal, even after we put a "panic button" on the police radios that would alert the dispatcher with an exact lat/long for the officer's vehicle when it was pressed. We beat Etak to market by several years although we were in a vastly different market. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Rigney Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 12:38 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Etak Navigator Joe, Back in the mid-80's, Etak began shipping what I believe is the first commercially available in-vehicle navigation system. This system was the precursor to today's driver-guidance systems, and Etak's patents are probably in most if not all of them. The original Etak Navigator was a specially-packaged 286 system with 256MB RAM and 256MB ROM, and a four-track tape drive on which some of the "OS" and the digital maps were stored. The tapes didn't hold much, so for the San Francisco area, for example, you had four or five tapes--when you drove off the end of the map, you changed tapes to match your new location. The map moved as you drove, just like today's systems, but instead of the fancy color raster display, it had a green vector display. It had address geocoding (the ability to convert a street address to a lat/long point). It worked by using a compass mounted somewhere in the car (typically inside the headliner) and two wheel sensors on the rear wheels (which magnetic strips installed on the wheel rims themselves). The system worked by "dead reckoning" (actually "ded. reckoning" for "deduced"), which basically meant that you told it where you were when you first installed it, and then took it on a short calibration drive, and from then on, the system self-corrected and got increasingly better at following the map. No GPS at that time... that came much later, and obviously improved the accuracy and simplicity of the system. For those of you in the San Francisco area during the 70's and 80's, you could buy these at various auto-stereo places for around $3000-$3500 installed (does anyone remember Steven Matthew David, owner of Matthews TV and Stereo, top of the hill, Daly City! :-)) It was also used in emergency vehicles: coupled with a data radio, a central dispatch could watch a moving display of paramedic and fire vehicles driving around. Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 2:52 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Etak Navigator > > > What the heck is an Etak Navigator and why does it have a tape drive? > > Joe > > At 11:39 AM 10/7/02 -0700, you wrote: > >I have an Etak Navigator, serial number 67, that was at one time > installed > >in my car, but many years ago was removed and relegated to a box > in storage. > >I pulled it out a few months ago, but I have no idea where the tape drive > >is. I've moved many times since I worked there. I've contacted > Etak (now > >Tele Atlas), but so far my inquiries have fallen on deaf ears. > Does anyone > >out there happen to have a tape drive, or the whole system, that > they'd be > >willing to sell/trade/etc? TIA, Patrick > > > > > > > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Oct 7 19:39:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Tek 1230 LA RE: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021007201234.492f6338@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20021008004049.9611.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> Unfortunately, I have the manuals for every single disassembler probe that unit had, but no disassembler pods...the only ROM work I've done with it had to do with making it Y2K compliant (one unit had newer ROM's than the other). I have one unit with 3 pods, 2 interface boards, the serial and printer boards, and one bad interface board, and the other, just the main unit with a pod. I did make my own wire sets, though. Thanks for looking on the key. I won't use a not-so-perfect replacement quite yet! Did you see my hair-raising note on the CRT fix? --- Joe wrote: > At 04:50 PM 10/7/02 -0700, steve wrote: > > >A logic analyzer is also a nice thing to have, I > have > >a loaded Tek 1230 and a working spare, but that's > >another subject.... > > Steve, do you know if anyone has tried making > copies of the disassebler ROMs for the Tek 1230/124x > LAs? I've heard some talk about it but don't know if > any one's actually done it yet. > > FYI: I looked through the old HP terminals around > here today but none of them had keyboards. I do know > someone that has (had?) a keyboard but I don't know > if it's still around. I'll keep looking. > > Joe > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From jim at jkearney.com Mon Oct 7 20:18:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Tek 1230 LA RE: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting References: <3.0.6.16.20021007201234.492f6338@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <025a01c26e68$cb0ee3c0$1301090a@jkearney.com> There is a guy in the Czech Republic named Pavel Korensky who has a large archive of Tek 1240 ROM images, and has built a 'SuperPack' cartridge that holds a bunch of them at once, plus a large nonvolatile RAM. His email is pavel.korensky@dator3.cz. He has a kind of mini-SIG and email list going. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 8:12 PM Subject: Tek 1230 LA RE: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting > At 04:50 PM 10/7/02 -0700, steve wrote: > > >A logic analyzer is also a nice thing to have, I have > >a loaded Tek 1230 and a working spare, but that's > >another subject.... > > Steve, do you know if anyone has tried making copies of the disassebler ROMs for the Tek 1230/124x LAs? I've heard some talk about it but don't know if any one's actually done it yet. > > FYI: I looked through the old HP terminals around here today but none of them had keyboards. I do know someone that has (had?) a keyboard but I don't know if it's still around. I'll keep looking. > > Joe > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Oct 7 21:18:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: 10 years - Old Newtons References: <3DA202D7.73B336A4@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <00c301c26e71$1ef9ea90$d9000240@oemcomputer> I have several older models the 100, 110, 120, 130, and eMate 300. They are all really cool. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Honniball" To: Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 4:55 PM Subject: Re: 10 years > > Patrick Rigney wrote: > > Speaking of which... somebody must have a Newton??? > > Yes, I have one: a MessagePad model H1000. I also have an > Amstrad PenPad PDA 600, an HP OmniGo, a Philips Nino and > a Microwriter AgendA. > > Ooops, the Newton's only nine years old; I claim "cool factor"! > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 7 22:13:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? In-Reply-To: <000501c26df8$104d17c0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > Should someone check on him to see if everything is OK? > > A couple of years ago I was exchanging email with a guy down in Texas > about his TRS-80 Model 1 which he wanted to give way. Didn't hear from > in a while, so I sent an "what's up" message. Got a message some time > later from his daughter that he passed away shortly after that message. > Strangely enough he packaged up the computer before he passed away and > his daughter was kind enough to send it. > > Weird. It happens. I had a similar experience with someone local to me in Houston. Strangely enough, I got a well used and fairly complete TRS-80 Model 1 from that person. I *really* regret not getting all the QST, Radio Electronics, etc magazines from him now, but at least I got the 80 Micro magazines. One day I'm gonna have to finish rebuilding the Selectric printer that came with it and put pictures of it and the interface box up... -Toth From cube1 at charter.net Mon Oct 7 22:21:00 2002 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: TU-58 tapes for VAX 11/750 and 11/730 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020813174109.03287540@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021007222957.0402c008@cirithi> msell@ontimesupport.com There are emulators out there for the PC. If you like, I can read your tapes in on my Tu58 onto my PC. (I don't have a VAX 111/7x0, however). Jay At 05:46 PM 8/13/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Guys, > > >I have a few console, diagnostic, and patch tapes for the 11/750 and >11/730 on TU-58. I just recently got my 11/750 working, but I don't have a >console tape that will boot it properly, though. > >What emulators are used to communicate with the VAX to simulate the TU-58? >Anything for DOS, or is everything Linux based? > >I remember a discussion a little while ago about TU-58 tapes and a >possible archive site, has that been set up? If so - when I can get the >tapes archived I can submit these for inclusion. > >I'd also like to snarf a console tape archive or two as well... : ) > >Thanks! > > > - Matt > > > > > >Matthew Sell >Programmer >On Time Support, Inc. >www.ontimesupport.com >(281) 296-6066 > >Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! >http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. > > >"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad >"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > >Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021007/4edbb4e6/attachment.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 7 22:39:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > A couple of years ago I was exchanging email with a guy down in Texas > > about his TRS-80 Model 1 which he wanted to give way. Didn't hear from > > in a while, so I sent an "what's up" message. Got a message some time > > later from his daughter that he passed away shortly after that message. > It happens. I had a similar experience with someone local to me in I got an email from Scott Mueller offering Casio CFX watches and parts. I tried to locate Bob Wallace, since I once replaced the case of his, and figured he'd be due for more parts. THAT was when I found out that Bob had just died. A couple of times I've had people die in mid transaction. Fortunately most executors don't mind finishing the transaction. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 7 22:45:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: NLS Scope value (was scope for vintage computers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I see the 215s in working shape typically in the $75 to 150 range, > depending on degree of pristininity and presence of manuals, probes, > leatherette case, etc. Thanks BTW, they also made single trace models, and ones of other speeds. 215 is dual trace 15 MHz. I don't think that I'll get around to swapping batteries; I don't have the original probes; and I don't have the front of the leather case (it is fully removable to facilitate losing it). So, I should probably take it to VCF, so that anybody interested can get a close look before considering it. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 7 23:02:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <61635.12.13.226.18.1034014700.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Mike wrote: > Actually, this is good info. I have limited my choice to LCD simply > because of the size/weight issues. I have an area that I work most of > the time that is not permanently set up. I was hoping to get something > to allow easy tear down and setup. The late generation analogs really don't weigh that much, so those might work out well for you. The older/larger scopes were commonly mounted in racks or were used on carts if they were to be moved much. Make sure the scope comes with probes, or that they are readily available. I picked up several Tektronix 2216 scopes quite some time ago, but later found out the special probes it requires are not commonly available. The 2216 is nice in that it does not weigh very much, but still has plenty of features for a 60MHz analog. (I did finally manage to locate some genuine Tek probes, so hopefully soon I'll have those scopes working.) -Toth From cb at mythtech.net Tue Oct 8 00:19:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: 10 years - Old Newtons Message-ID: >I have several older models the 100, 110, 120, 130, and eMate 300. They are >all really cool. I have just the 100, and 2 of the 110's. (but want a 130, an eMate and a 2100, don't care much about the 120 or 2000) I was a member of Apple's "Newton Developer Program", so I do have a number of cool CDs full of stuff. At one point I was writing software for them, but I wasn't very good. -chris From jplist at kiwigeek.com Tue Oct 8 00:20:00 2002 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Barco Chromatics CX-2000 Message-ID: Greetings all, Have been offered a Barco Chromatics unit, but I'm having the devil of a time trying to find any decent information out about the unit. I've been scouring Google but the only useful thing I found is pretty generic. 6U VME unit, graphics renderer, semi-proprietary UI maybe... Anyone have any better first-hand knowledge of the unit? The dude has no VDU for the machine, but it has a set of 5 BNC connectors which gives me some hope... Anyways, Any help appreciated. JP From jss at subatomix.com Tue Oct 8 00:58:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley? (Was: Richard Erlacher?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <175106885092.20021008005549@subatomix.com> On Monday, October 7, 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > A couple of times I've had people die in mid transaction. Fortunately most > executors don't mind finishing the transaction. A while back we thought something had happened to Jeffrey Worley (technoid). People were wanting to get in touch with him. I just Googled for him, and it looks like there's some new activity as recent as 06/20, as can be seen on this page: http://www.nsva.org/guestbook/guestbook.html Looks like his current address may be technoid at 30below.com. -- Jeffrey Sharp From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Tue Oct 8 07:07:00 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:49 2005 Subject: HP 2644A "Moldy CRT" Update References: <20021006225844.21498.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <043001c26ec3$6e30b880$0101a8c0@athlon> Well done, Steve- Wasn't that hard after all, eh?!! Dave Brown Christchurch NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loboyko Steve" To: Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 11:58 AM Subject: HP 2644A "Moldy CRT" Update > I have successfully solved the HP2644A "Moldy CRT" > "contain") the CRT in removing the front glare shield. > From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Oct 8 07:09:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? In-Reply-To: <20021006152730.TJZP9131.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> References: <2280.4.20.168.172.1033674938.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> <3D9C58A4.4C983EAE@ccp.com> <2280.4.20.168.172.1033674938.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021008074909.00afcda8@mail.njd.concentric.com> On three occasions when I received items from Canada that were shipped via UPS, I've received brokerage fee bills from UPS. In each case, I called the number on the invoice and complained to the UPS brokerage rep. I pointed out that whenever I call UPS customer service to have a late package traced, I'm told to talk to the shipper since the contract for shipping service is between UPS and the shipper, not UPS and the consignee. So, I said, since the contract is between UPS and the shipper, they need to send this bill to the shipper. The rep usually responds that no, the consignee is responsible for the brokerage fee. I then ask the rep how I can be responsible for service fees when UPS' own customer service tells me that the contract is between UPS and the shipper. Then, I repeat in my most reasonable voice that UPS should send this bill to the shipper. At this point, the UPS brokerage rep sighs and says, as a customer service, they'll waive the brokerage fee. As well they should. All in all, it only takes a few minutes, and it's always fun to listen to the brokerage rep fumble around trying to justify the contradictory policies of UPS. -- Tony From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Oct 8 07:31:01 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021008071814.0272a4d8@pc> At 08:40 PM 10/7/2002 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >A couple of times I've had people die in mid transaction. Fortunately >most executors don't mind finishing the transaction. I know this list has talked about it before, but it would be great if there was an automated "dead man's switch" system that could notify the buzzards to collect the collection. Sure, a will helps, but who bothers to list all their computer junk in their will? - John From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Tue Oct 8 07:31:20 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum References: <3D9D5B64.4066.816BF59@localhost> Message-ID: <04fb01c26ec6$db8b61c0$0101a8c0@athlon> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 3:12 AM Subject: Re: Request from Intel's Museum > What I was surprised at, was the date of the "Electronics" issue. I didn't > know they went back that far. They actually go back pre WW2. I have bound copies of full years from the mid thirties up through WW2 as far as 1949/50. Great reading-specially the adverts! Dave Brown Christchurch NZ From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Oct 8 07:52:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021008071814.0272a4d8@pc> Message-ID: It's for Windows (and thus violates the 10 year rule...) but anyway: http://www.daisyman.arsware.org/dms/ --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 08:20 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Richard Erlacher? At 08:40 PM 10/7/2002 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >A couple of times I've had people die in mid transaction. Fortunately >most executors don't mind finishing the transaction. I know this list has talked about it before, but it would be great if there was an automated "dead man's switch" system that could notify the buzzards to collect the collection. Sure, a will helps, but who bothers to list all their computer junk in their will? - John From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Oct 8 08:45:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: HP 2644A "Moldy CRT" Update In-Reply-To: <043001c26ec3$6e30b880$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20021008134621.42199.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave Brown wrote: > Well done, Steve- Wasn't that hard after all, eh?!! > Dave Brown > Christchurch > NZ I was wondering if you would read about this. Thanks for giving me the idea that it could be done! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From Mzthompson at aol.com Tue Oct 8 09:15:01 2002 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Semicon Cross Ref help needed Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002; "Cini, Richard" wrote: > I got my hands on an unpopulated S100 motherboard by Vector > Electronics and I want to put it together for testing purposes. It's an > active-terminated board and I'm having trouble finding equivalent parts for > two transistors: Looking at a 1982 copy of the ECG Replacement Guide: > NPN power: GE D44C1 or NSI D44C4 (TO-220) ECG377 (TO-220) for both > PNP power: GE D41D1 or NSI D45C4 (TO-202)(NSI is National Semiconductor) D41D1 - ECG211 (TO-202) D45C4 - ECG378 (TO-220) ECG377 and ECG378 are listed as Compl. to each other ECG211 is listed as 1 amp and 6.25 watts ECG377/378 are listed as 10 amp and 50 watts Hope this helps, Mike From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Oct 8 09:52:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Barco Chromatics CX-2000 References: Message-ID: <3DA2F082.D3455EB4@ccp.com> JP Hindin wrote: > > Greetings all, > > Have been offered a Barco Chromatics unit, but I'm having the devil of a > time trying to find any decent information out about the unit. > I've been scouring Google but the only useful thing I found is pretty > generic. 6U VME unit, graphics renderer, semi-proprietary UI maybe... > > Anyone have any better first-hand knowledge of the unit? > The dude has no VDU for the machine, but it has a set of 5 BNC connectors > which gives me some hope... > > Anyways, > Any help appreciated. > > JP You might try the US Barco Distributor in Kennesaw, GA. They are very helpful in getting info out for their stuff. I've been there several times for training on their CRT/LCD projectors, but I don't ever remember that specific item. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 8 11:35:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Barco Chromatics CX-2000 Message-ID: It sounds like an old Chromatics graphics workstation... don't know a ton about it, but I'll bet its powered by a VME embedded SPARCengine, probably a 1+ or something... Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 8 12:02:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: 10 years - Old Newtons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021008170333.61845.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- chris wrote: > >I have several older models the 100, 110, 120, 130, and eMate 300. They > > are all really cool. > > I have just the 100, and 2 of the 110's. (but want a 130, an eMate and a > 2100, don't care much about the 120 or 2000) So what does it take to use a Newt with Winblows? Is there a good page I can go to for what software I need on the PeeCee side to back it up, and to drop new stuff on it? Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 8 12:03:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Richard Erlacher? Message-ID: I for one, have told my parents that should I die, I'd like my computer stuff to be donated to the Computer Museum, and whatever they don't want, should be given to RCS/RI and RICM.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 8 12:35:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: FYI: Kevin Mitnick's Laptop auction Message-ID: Of course, why would anyone buy the POS anyway? It must truly be great to be able to be a criminal and then profit from it! Umm, god bless america or something... *sigh* _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Oct 8 12:59:00 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor Message-ID: <044f01c26ef4$9c79d1a0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Hi, Just PackRatted a NCR 3400 system from a house on the next blok............. It'll be legaly on topic in 2.5 month from now Seems it could run OS2 2.0 and UNIX SRV4 It's got a Exabyte tapestreamer (propably a 8200-type) and a few SCSI HD's It's got RAM-modules with 7 chips each, which seems a rather odd number to me. In 3 Banks of 8 Modules. They look a bit like 30-pin simms .......... Does anyone know if it's value is more than a rather heavy boat-anchor Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------------- From cb at mythtech.net Tue Oct 8 13:00:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: 10 years - Old Newtons Message-ID: >So what does it take to use a Newt with Winblows? Is there a good >page I can go to for what software I need on the PeeCee side to >back it up, and to drop new stuff on it? It takes a serial cable (mini-din 8 to DE-9 or whatever you have on your PC side), and the PC Connection Kit software, which I believe is now free from Apple's web site (if not, let me know, I am sure I have it here someplace). -chris From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 8 13:11:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: 10 years - Old Newtons Message-ID: And if Chris doesn't have it, I know I do, still new in the box even... _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 8 14:58:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: recent score :) Message-ID: <01aa01c26f05$1c2b13e0$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Ok, it's a small one, but it's wonderful to me :) I just got a case of 1/2 mag tape EOT markers :) Anyone need a pack? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 8 16:15:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor In-Reply-To: <044f01c26ef4$9c79d1a0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <20021008211657.63106.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sipke de Wal wrote: > Hi, > > Just PackRatted a NCR 3400 system from a house > on the next blok............. Not the thing you typically find in a residential area... > It'll be legaly on topic in 2.5 month from now Close enough for me. > Seems it could run OS2 2.0 and UNIX SRV4 I used to work in a group at Lucent (in Columbus, OH) that maintained Suns and NCR 34xx machines. How many MicroChannel SCSI cards does yours have? Ethernet? > Does anyone know if it's value is more than > a rather heavy boat-anchor If you want to run multi-processor UNIX (NCR's MP-RAS) on what are probably P-90 chips, it's a fine little beast. Otherwise, it's an I/O-heavy desktop machine. A giant PeeCee, really. I was told that you could stick in a DOS boot floppy and play DOOM on one. Never got the chance, though. :-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 8 16:21:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Update suggestion for Zane Healy's ModuleList.txt Message-ID: <20021008212211.99023.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Zane (and anyone else who is keeps DEC module lists), I was looking up the functionality of a board set I got off eBay recently (three auctions for the three boards from an H220 "MM8-E") and notice that for the H212/MM8-EJ, you list G??? as the core stack. Having just looked it up in the maintenance prints (B-DD-MM8EJ-B), it's the G646, which you have listed, but not listed as part of the MM8-EJ. I can confirm that the G646 _is_ part of the H212/MM8-EJ. You may "connect the dots" in the Module List. -ethan (now all I need is a working circuit breaker and I can test my "new" H220!) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Oct 8 16:48:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Update suggestion for Zane Healy's ModuleList.txt In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Oct 08, 2002 02:22:11 PM Message-ID: <200210082149.g98LnhU06116@shell1.aracnet.com> > Zane (and anyone else who is keeps DEC module lists), In case anyone is wondering: ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/ModuleList.txt The list is for non-Q-Bus and non-Unibus cards, and it started out as a list combining all of the PDP-8 card lists that are out there (each of which had at least some different data). > I can confirm that the G646 _is_ part of the H212/MM8-EJ. You may > "connect the dots" in the Module List. > > -ethan Many thanks! I just updated it. Zane From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Oct 8 17:48:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: PDP 11/44 Want List - Message-ID: The 11/44 I rescued is actually two complete systems in one rack. Last night I got around to turning up the other system, and was greeted by the snapping of circuit breakers and the blowing of fuses.. aaahhrg! Anyway, the H7140 power supply wanted some TLC which it got, but when recieved, the 'B' system was minus it's Data Paths card, and there were two spares among all the doc and other stuff, one labled "bad board". Neither of the two spares work in the 'good' system, and the one from the good system allows the monitor to sign on, but giving a ??CP HUNG result. so I have some bus grant/NPG jumer work to do - not a problem. What IS a problem is that I need one (or two) fuctioning M7904 cards to make it work, as a printset for the individual CPU cards seems not be included in the stack I got. I am also in the market for two or three DD11-CK Single Backplane assy's. Then, another couple of RL02 drives would round out things. I have found a nice 9trk subsystem. I know it's useless to ask about a Unibus SCSI card, so it's possible that I'll end up buying one... yuk. Hmmm... come to think of it, an RX02 might be fun, in case of software finds on Floppies. I will be brining the working system to VCF 5, as well as (possibly) a PR1ME 750. I will be in wheel/deal mode then... I'd like to hear back from folks who might have some of the above wanted hardware, who will be at VCF - we can make a deal and do gthe exchange at Moffet Field. All for now... Cheers John From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Oct 8 18:48:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Panasonic HHC Find Message-ID: <012b01c26f25$51261ac0$1c010240@oemcomputer> Today at auction I purchased from another bidder the following: A black metal HHC MINI I/O (RL-6002) unit (first I have seen) with Hand Held computer (RL-H1800) and HHC Color Plotter (RL-P1002) mounted to it. Panasonic ac adapter RD-9498 first one I have seen. A Brown leather case for the HHC also my first. A HHC Printer/Cassette adapter P1004. Instruction booklet for the HHC models RL-H1000, RL-H1400, and RL-H1800. A box with 5 Thermal paper rolls for the printer - New. Several tubes full of plotter pens from Tandy for the plotter. I purchased four pallets of computers and related stuff for $2.50 plus 10%. I have not completed listing all the stuff but will update ;list after I get it done. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Oct 8 20:13:34 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: <005701c26a0f$2b83b220$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> References: <005701c26a0f$2b83b220$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200210021806540535.A39850CC@192.168.42.129> Hi, Jay, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 02-Oct-02 at 07:28 Jay West wrote: >Someone was going to throw out a known working SCSI drive here... I >figured it was worthless, but then I am sometimes amazed at the more >"modern" hard drives that some on the list want. I seem to recall some of >the microvax or amiga type people look for this kind of stuff... > >Seagate ST12400N, definitely known to be working. I believe it's a 1gb >SCSI drive. If anyone wants it, let me know, if not, I'll pitch it. Actually, that's a 2.2 gig drive. The 12400N is an early Hawk series, very popular with the Sun 'lunchbox' systems. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From mark at ecl.us Tue Oct 8 20:14:30 2002 From: mark at ecl.us (Mark Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Semicon Cross Ref help needed In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126FD4@MAIL10> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126FD4@MAIL10> Message-ID: <1034017802.703.22.camel@Glass> Found some specs which should help to cross it GE D44C1 Vce Max = 40 Veb Max = 5 Ic Max = 4 Amps Power Max = 30 Watts Junction Temp Max = 150 Degrees C Freq Resp = 50 MHz Cuttoff = 10 uA at Vcb=40 Hfe=37 at .2 Amps GE D41D1 Vce Max = 45 Veb Max = 5 Ic Max = 1 Amp Power Max = 6 Watts Jumction Temp Max = 150 Degrees C Freq Resp = 150 MHz Cuttoff = 100 nA at Vcb=45 Hfe=88 at .1 Amp Mark On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 11:34, Cini, Richard wrote: > Hello, all: > > I got my hands on an unpopulated S100 motherboard by Vector > Electronics and I want to put it together for testing purposes. It's an > active-terminated board and I'm having trouble finding equivalent parts for > two transistors: > > NPN power: GE D44C1 or NSI D44C4 (TO-220) > PNP power: GE D41D1 or NSI D45C4 (TO-202)(NSI is National > Semiconductor) > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Rich > From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 8 20:14:36 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: VirtualPC for OS/2 Message-ID: Does anyone have experience with Connectix VirtualPC for OS/2? Peace... Sridhar From 520055239069-0001 at t-online.de Tue Oct 8 20:14:53 2002 From: 520055239069-0001 at t-online.de (Harald Husemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Questions about a HP Apollo 735/125 Message-ID: <02100802345701.00810@dh9dat-w> Hi folks, I just 'won' an old HP Apollo 700 Series, Model 735/125. Unfortunately, I don't have ANY information about it - searching HP's website took me to the service manual, so I know a little bit more about it now. By searching the web, I've learned that I can use a standard PC-VGA monitor with the apollo, by soldering (or buying, :-( ) a special cable. But, a few questions remain: - Anyone has a PIN-layout for the monitor cable? I know that I have to solder red to red VGA, red ground to red ground, and so on, but I don't know the pinout of the VGA connector... Maybe anyone did this before, and can tell me the correct PIN-to-PIN assignments?! - Can I use a standard PC keyboard with the Apollo? It just has a so-called "HPIL"-connector on the back, and I don't have such a keyboard... - What about a mouse? Unfortunately, I just got the machine, and nothing else... - My Apollo doesn't have a standard LAN-connector, just an AUI... But, I saw it has a EISA slot, and the manual told me that EISA is fully compliat to ISA (didn't know this before...). So, can I just equip the Apollo with one of my old ISA Novell/ Eagle-cards? There's an EISA card in the slot, but this seems to be a Token Ring (it's called a "Ring" card) Sorry if my questions are a little bit stupid, but I don't know anything about the machine - just got it from dumpster without any additional informatins, and thought it would be nice to use it. Thanks for your help, I'm glad that there is a mailing list dealing with this systems - thought I've just got > 10kg of old iron, when I start searching the web, :-) keep on hackin', Harald (bofh@dh9dat.de) From gil at vauxelectronics.com Tue Oct 8 20:15:05 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021007231016.0079c340@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi folks: I am new to the classiccmp list. I am an EE, and collect teletype machines and HP test gear. My first computer was an RCA VIP 1802-based board. My second was an Apple II. I got to play with some bigger stuff when I worked at Cray Research a decade ago. But I digress. I have also been collecting HP 85 computer stuff (85A, 85B, 3"/5"/8" drives, roms, cards...), and I just got a 9915A, which is the industrial version of the HP 85A (cpu-only in a half-rack box). This 9915A does not have the tape drive (option 001), but has the operator interface card (opt 002), which provides connectors for keyboard (DB-25F), control (DB-15F), and video (BNC). The problem is, I have no keyboard, monitor, or documentation of any sort for the 9915. I have most of the useful 85 docs (short of the service manual), but nothing on the 9915. Judging from the number of pcb connections to the keyboard connector, I'd guess it uses a special parallel keyboard. I found reference to a 98155A keyboard in a post about a 9915B (85B-compatible), and I presume that is the same keyboard used with the A version. I hooked the video up to the composite input of a tv, and saw text and graphics when I ran the self-test from the front-panel buttons of the 9915. The image seemed wider than the screen, and I'm not sure if is just my tv adjustment, or if the video signal is not quite ntsc composite. As for the control connector, I have no idea what that might be used for. There is also a little board inside that has eight sockets, four of which are populated with 2732 eproms. I am wondering whether this is part of the cpu system, or if it is for embedded program storage like the programmable rom card for the 85. I presume that I can hook up a disk with an hp-ib card (and rom), so it should be usable once I find a keyboard and appropriate monitor. Anyone have any docs/info/tidbits/keyboard...? thanks, gil smith ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From jwest at imail.kwcorp.com Tue Oct 8 20:15:21 2002 From: jwest at imail.kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: scsi drive + misc. other stuff (free pentium machines & 10 year rule/windows) Message-ID: <018001c26aee$29508a20$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From dogbert at mindless.com Tue Oct 8 20:15:47 2002 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum References: <200210032306.QAA16661@clulw009.amd.com> <1033600983.1877.0.camel@supermicro> <3D9CD62B.959149A2@compsys.to> <043d01c26b3e$5280eac0$1301090a@jkearney.com> <3D9D0A84.FA0154BB@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3D9D2B69.5040503@mindless.com> Jerome H. Fine wrote: >>Jim Kearney wrote: >> >> > > > >>I just had an email exchange with someone at Intel's Museum >>(http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/index.htm) >> >> > >Jerome Fine replies: > >I am not sure why the information is so blatant in its >stupid attempt to ignore anything but Intel hardware >as far a anything that even look like a CPU chip, but >I guess it is an "Intel" museum. > >Of course, even now, Intel, in my opinion, is so far >behind from a technical point of view that is is a sad >comment just to read about the products that were >way behind, and still are, the excellence of other >products. No question that if the Pentium 4 had been >produced 10 years ago, it would have been a major >accomplishment. > Harsh! :) Guess it depends on what you mean by "far behind from a technical point of view." If you mean that x86 is an ugly legacy architecture, with not nearly enough registers, an instruction set which doesn't fit any reasonable pipeline, that's ugly to decode and not particularly orthogonal, that from purely technical reasons ought to have died a timely death in 1990, I'd have to agree. However, look at the performance. P4 is up near the top of the tree with the best RISC CPUs, which have the advantage of clean design and careful evolution. It surely takes a great deal of inspiration, creativity, and engineering talent to take something as ill-suited as the x86 architecture and get this kind of performance out of it. IMHO. In other words, making x86 fast must be a lot like getting Dumbo off the air. That ought to count as some kind of technical achievement. :) Imagine if the same amount of effort was applied to a sensible machine, like MIPS, Alpha, or ARM! Or even a 64 bit-wide Z80 :) -- Ross > >Sincerely yours, > >Jerome Fine >-- >If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail >address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk >e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be >obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the >'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > > > > From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Tue Oct 8 20:16:06 2002 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Looking for 9trk drive In-Reply-To: <2928.4.20.168.172.1033754991.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20021004212004.19412.qmail@web20805.mail.yahoo.com> Eric, I'm looking for a 9 track tape drive for my 750 - have one available? Thanks. Lee Courtney --- Eric Smith wrote: > > I am in the market for a DEC TE16 or Kennedy > 9300 working drive with > > Unibus formatter card and cables. > [...] > > This is for an 11/44 system. > > The TE16 is a Massbus drive, so you would need an > RH11 Massbus adapter > to use it. > > I've got s spare TE16, but I don't have a spare > RH11. Let me > know if you want the TE16. > > I've got some other tape drives that might be > available, including > a few Kennedy 9100s, but no 9300. > > Eric > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 8 20:16:24 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years In-Reply-To: <000201c26c1c$20ad2f20$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: Speaking of pen-based machines, I think I have an IBM ThinkPad 710T squirreled away somewhere. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > Hey Bob.I've got 2 prototype (working) NEC VersaPads (they actually say > NEC Autograph on them). It's was a slick machine, our company > SystemSoft was developing the PCMCIA for NEC. Not to be critical 10 > years later, but the NEC VersaPad a lousy implementation of PCMCIA (hot > swapping primarily), but it could have been our early engineering > samples. > > The other machine from that era that impressed me was the NCR 3125. > http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/ncr_3125/ > Out of all the pen machine built in 1992-1994, I think the 3125 or the > AT&T Safari machine were the biggest sellers (not that pen machines were > big sellers). > > I never realized the VersaPad was never released..or that PenPoint ran > on it. I would love to try it though. > After GO went under I really regret (now) throwing out the PenPoint SDK, > documentation, diskettes etc. > > I've an IBM pen computer that runs PenPoint and I really think it was > much better then Windows for Pen Computing by far. I've always wanted a > Momenta pen system - anyone have one? Momenta burned through $40M in VC > money.until the dotcom era, that was the biggest disaster that VCs ever > had. > > -Chandra > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Bob Shannon > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 6:41 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Penpoint! was Re: 10 years > > People actually remember Penpoint! > > I'm afraid I had a small hand in 'killing' Penpoint. > > Back when I worked at NEC, we had done a lot of work on a tablet-based > portable PC called > a VersaPad. The VersaPad was a fairly slick little 486SX based machine > with a paper-white > mono VGA display and a MicroTouch digitizer. It used an active, > RF-linked 'pen' stylus with > mouse-like buttons, etc. > > You had your choice of operating systems, Microsoft's Windows for Pen > Computing, a hacked > up version of Windows 3.11, or Go's Penpoint, a strange OS that was > centered around the idea of > an electronic book. > > I was sent from NEC to Go's offices, along with a BIOS engineer, to > assist Go Inc. in their efforts > to port Penpoint for the VersaPad. Given this assignement, I sat down > with a prototype and a stack > of PenPoint documentation. As strange as Penpoint was (to me) at the > time, I found it easy to learn > despite the gesture-recognisers inability to deal with my nearly > unreadable handwriting style. > > But then things got ugly. > > The VersaPad had 2 PCMCIA slots, and Penpoint supported an array of > smart card, flash and SRAM > cards. Penpoint had absolutley no concept of a physical volume or > device name, so when you inserted > a PCMCIA card, a small book-like icon appeared on a GUI 'shelf'. > > Apparently the VersaPad was the only Penpoint machine that supported 2 > PCMCIA slots, something Go > had never forseen in their low-level O/S design. This was a feature > thought to be critical for a major customer > who had asked NEC to develop the strange little VersaPad machine in the > first place. > > Turns out I could pop a card into slot 0, and get its icon as normal. I > could then pop a second card into slot > 1 and see another 'book' icon appear. But when I removed the first card > and its icon disappeared, the identical > icon for the card in slot 0 slid down the 'shelf' into the position that > had held the icon for the card I'd just removed. > > Re-inserting the card in slot 0 now generated an icon on the OPPOSITE > side of the icon for the slot 1 card, so > there was no way to relate either PCMCIA card icon to either physical > slot, as the GUI presentation depended > on the order of insertion. The way this OS worked, with 2 PCMCIA slots, > you were sure to delete files from > the wrong physical volume, or not know which physical bit of media > actually held your data. It was nasty. > > When this bug was replicated by the NEC BIOS enginer on the trip with > me, we reported this bizzare bug to Go's team. > Later that day, 90% of the engineers we were sent to support were called > into 'urgent' meetings. > > In the end, Go's assesement was that Penpoint would have to be > fundementally re-engineered to fix this issue. The changes needed would > be to dramatic that the project was canceled. This was a bug they just > could not fix, and > without the ability to use a PCMCIA modem and data-card, NEC's customer > for the VersaPad would be forced to abandon the Penpoint application and > retool for a Windows for Pen Computing application. The result of this, > and some really major issues with early Ni-MHD battery cells was enough > to kill the complete VersaPad project. > > A few VersaPad's still exist, and I probably even have a copy of > Penpoint, a tragically flawed Penpoint mind you, for these rare beasts. > I had a small stack of VersaPads, and recently sold some at the MIT > flea-market to people wanting to use them as controllers for mobile > robots. > > If there is any real interest, I'll go dig one out and see if one of the > 2 remaining machines has Penpoint still installed. > > Anyway, I was not to happy Penpoint went away. I think I would prefer > Penpoint as an O/S for my MobilePro 450 over Windows CE, but it has been > a long time since I've used either one. > > Say, how old is a NEC MobilePro anyway? Hmm, nope, thats off-topic! > > Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Now that's what I call collectible. I really wish I still had > my EO 440... > :-( > I have one ;) > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > > > > Very cool... is it still working? I'd love to see pix; many memories. > I > > > worked for Go shortly before they merged back together with Eo and > then... > > > "went". --Patrick > > > > > > > > > > > From stefan at softhome.net Tue Oct 8 20:16:32 2002 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Help needed with MicroVAX 3400 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006154823.0226ca90@pop.softhome.net> Hi there, I have here a MicroVAX 3400 with Ultrix 4.5 on it. All seems to be running fine, except from the fact that I cant seem to get any action from the ethernet port. I myself think its dead but I thought I'd ask here before I'd give it totally up. The network card is detected but no lights go on, neither can I do anything on the network or does it show any connection on the hub. I can ping localhost and the ip address i gave it, thats how far it goes. If i want to ping anything else it says, network not reachable (or something like that). Anybody any ideas ?? yours, Stefan. From dfnr2 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 8 20:16:39 2002 From: dfnr2 at yahoo.com (Dave) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Free in LA: TK50's - DEC Manuals - Commodore Pet - Dell P120 - Jaz Drives Message-ID: <20021007003601.41601.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Eliot, I'd be very interested in the PET, if you still have it. I didn't see any contact info in your post. I would be grateful if you emailed me with your email or phone#. Thanks, David. -- dfnr2@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Oct 8 20:16:56 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug Alert Message-ID: <200210061909370235.B86AE10E@192.168.42.129> Hi, folks, Here's another shameless plug. I've posted a bunch of older DEC docs on E-pay, among them some engineering drawing sets for the PDP-11/05S and 11/10S, the MF11-U core memory system, and some various other books and goodies. There's also a KFQSA DSSI controller. All starting cheap, no reserve on anything. I'm not going to include all eight links here. Just pop over to Ebay and do a seller search for 'bftbell' (sans the quotes) if you're interested. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From vcf at siconic.com Tue Oct 8 20:17:05 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Remington Rand card punch and printer needed Message-ID: Can anyone help Andy? If so, please reply to him directly. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:18:05 -0400 From: andy.egendorf Subject: Remington Rand I am working with the Rowayton Historical Society in Rowayton Connecticut, which is putting together artifacts for display concerning what is generally considered the first commercially available business computer - the Remington Rand 409 series (1951). We are trying to locate a source to enable us to punch a few dozen cards in Remington Rand format (90 column, round holes), and a source which can print on the cards the data punched into the cards. Both manual and powered punches were manufactured, but we have not been able to locate anything, even in museums. Similarly, we have been unable to locate any printer that could be used. This card format was used into the 60s, and maybe survived into the 70s or later, so there certainly ought to be something out there. Thanks, Andy Egendorf -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From bennyb at ntplx.net Tue Oct 8 20:17:13 2002 From: bennyb at ntplx.net (Ben Bridgwater) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: What video monitor for SOL-20? Message-ID: <3DA322A1.5020104@ntplx.net> I've just acquired an old Processor Technology SOL-20, and wonder if anyone can advise on what video monitors are compatible with it (how about an old IBM monochrome monitor - hercules compatible?), and what the video connector on the back is (huge 1/2" dia. coax connector) - are the mating connectors still available? Second, I'm planning to use my PC sound card to record/playback in lieu of a tape recorder (more reliable, less hassle), and wonder if anyone has done the same with any success? Thanks, Ben From 520055239069-0001 at t-online.de Tue Oct 8 20:17:25 2002 From: 520055239069-0001 at t-online.de (Harald Husemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Re-post: Questions about a HP Apollo 735/125 Message-ID: <02100900422000.00809@dh9dat-w> Hi folks, just excuse if this msg. is posted twice, but I've subscribed to the list yesterday, and sent the msg. right after subscribing. Although, didn't saw it in the list... So, please apologize if you got it twice! I just 'won' an old HP Apollo 700 Series, Model 735/125. Unfortunately, I don't have ANY information about it - searching HP's website took me to the service manual, so I know a little bit more about it now. By searching the web, I've learned that I can use a standard PC-VGA monitor with the apollo, by soldering (or buying, :-( ) a special cable. But, a few questions remain: - Anyone has a PIN-layout for the monitor cable? I know that I have to solder red to red VGA, red ground to red ground, and so on, but I don't know the pinout of the VGA connector... Maybe anyone did this before, and can tell me the correct PIN-to-PIN assignments?! (of course, I could search the web for the pinout, but I'm also interested in experiences with this special case) - Can I use a mouse? Unfortunately, I just got the machine, and nothing else... But, I found articles dealing with X-Windows, so I think a mouse should be supported... - My Apollo doesn't have a standard LAN-connector, just an AUI... I saw it has a EISA slot, and the manual told me that EISA is fully compliat to ISA (didn't know this before...). So, can I just equip the Apollo with one of my old ISA Novell/ Eagle-cards? (Of course, drivers would be a problem - but I plan to use NetBSD or maybe Linux, so I think I'll find one.) There's an EISA card in the slot, but this seems to be a Token Ring (it's called a "Ring" card) Sorry if my questions are a little bit stupid, but I don't know anything about the machine - just got it from dumpster without any additional informatins, and thought it would be nice to use it. Thanks for your help, I'm glad that there is a mailing list dealing with this systems - thought I've just got > 10kg of old iron, when I start searching the web, :-) keep on hackin', Harald (bofh@dh9dat.de) ------------------------------------------------------- From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 8 20:17:38 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: 10 years - Old Newtons In-Reply-To: <00c301c26e71$1ef9ea90$d9000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: That eMate 300. Is that the laptop-formfactor (sort of) green machine with no moving parts? Those things rocked. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Keys wrote: > I have several older models the 100, 110, 120, 130, and eMate 300. They are > all really cool. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Honniball" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 4:55 PM > Subject: Re: 10 years > > > > > > Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > Speaking of which... somebody must have a Newton??? > > > > Yes, I have one: a MessagePad model H1000. I also have an > > Amstrad PenPad PDA 600, an HP OmniGo, a Philips Nino and > > a Microwriter AgendA. > > > > Ooops, the Newton's only nine years old; I claim "cool factor"! > > > > -- > > John Honniball > > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 8 20:17:55 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: DEC SDI Drives Message-ID: Does anyone have any DEC RA7X drives they would be willing to let go real cheap? Size doesn't really matter all that much. Peace... Sridhar From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Oct 8 20:18:12 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: HP 7980S scsi 9-track In-Reply-To: <43443.64.169.63.74.1033626529.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721469BD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <200210020630010536.A11A5529@192.168.42.129> <43443.64.169.63.74.1033626529.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <200210081608580522.C21213F3@192.168.42.129> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 02-Oct-02 at 23:28 Eric Smith wrote: >Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >>>Does anyone have info on this beastie? I'm trying to convince it to be >>> nice to me and lock itself to 1600bpi, but it doesn't wanna play... :( > >Bruce Lane wrote: >> I had an 88170 at one time. > >An 88780, probably. Right you are. Brain fart there... >> Bear in mind that you'll need some fairly specialized (and expensive -- >> in the $300 region) software if you want to use that drive on any sort >> of PC. > >Someone should have warned me about that before I started using one with >no special software whatsoever. :-) Let me rephrase that. On any sort of PC with a Windoze operating system. ;-) Yes, any *nix should be able to handle them just fine. Sorry, I should have made that clearer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From gil at vauxelectronics.com Tue Oct 8 20:18:30 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021008161822.00915c70@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi folks: I am new to the classiccmp list. I am an EE, and collect teletype machines and HP test gear. My first computer was an RCA VIP 1802-based board. My second was an Apple II. I got to play with some bigger stuff when I worked at Cray Research a decade ago. But I digress. I have also been collecting HP 85 computer stuff (85A, 85B, 3"/5"/8" drives, roms, cards...), and I just got a 9915A, which is the industrial version of the HP 85A (cpu-only in a half-rack box). This 9915A does not have the tape drive (option 001), but has the operator interface card (opt 002), which provides connectors for keyboard (DB-25F), control (DB-15F), and video (BNC). The problem is, I have no keyboard, monitor, or documentation of any sort for the 9915. I have most of the useful 85 docs (short of the service manual), but nothing on the 9915. Judging from the number of pcb connections to the keyboard connector, I'd guess it uses a special parallel keyboard. I found reference to a 98155A keyboard in a post about a 9915B (85B-compatible), and I presume that is the same keyboard used with the A version. I hooked the video up to the composite input of a tv, and saw text and graphics when I ran the self-test from the front-panel buttons of the 9915. The image seemed wider than the screen, and I'm not sure if is just my tv adjustment, or if the video signal is not quite ntsc composite. As for the control connector, I have no idea what that might be used for. There is also a little board inside that has eight sockets, four of which are populated with 2732 eproms. I am wondering whether this is part of the cpu system, or if it is for embedded program storage like the programmable rom card for the 85. I presume that I can hook up a disk with an hp-ib card (and rom), so it should be usable once I find a keyboard and appropriate monitor. Anyone have any docs/info/tidbits/keyboard...? thanks, gil smith ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Oct 8 20:20:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: 10 years - Old Newtons In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at "Oct 8, 2 06:12:54 pm" Message-ID: <200210090130.SAA28016@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > That eMate 300. Is that the laptop-formfactor (sort of) green machine > with no moving parts? Those things rocked. They sure did. Mine has a cracked LCD. :-( -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Since we're all here, we must not be all there. -- Bob "Mountain" Beck ----- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Oct 8 20:22:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum In-Reply-To: <3D9D2B69.5040503@mindless.com> from Ross Archer at "Oct 3, 2 10:47:21 pm" Message-ID: <200210090132.SAA30608@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Imagine if the same amount of effort was applied > to a sensible machine, like MIPS, Alpha, or ARM! Or PowerPC :-) > Or even a 64 bit-wide Z80 :) I'd like a 64-bit 6502 myself. Someone is working on a 32-bit one, however. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Mmmm, Windows user. Crunchy and good with ketchup. -- Dave McGuire --------- From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Oct 8 20:27:00 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: DEC SDI Drives References: Message-ID: <003601c26f33$2ccef0d0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 8:27 AM Subject: DEC SDI Drives > > Does anyone have any DEC RA7X drives they would be willing to let go real > cheap? Size doesn't really matter all that much. I have some RA70's (250mb). I have a few 240v RA90's as well. Though getting them to you in working order might be a problem from here. I've already struck a snag trying to send a q-bus board to a guy in the states, I've had to resort to wrapping the antistat bag in 2mm sheet lead, (we have a lead smelter here ;^) as the US xray or irradiate every damn thing. It's a rare board so not taking any chances. Geoff in Oz From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Oct 8 20:28:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: What video monitor for SOL-20? References: <3DA322A1.5020104@ntplx.net> Message-ID: <017201c26f33$5dac3fa0$1c010240@oemcomputer> That's a great find, it's one of the big one's on my want list. I can't find any MN or TX. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Bridgwater" To: "CCTech" Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 1:23 PM Subject: What video monitor for SOL-20? > I've just acquired an old Processor Technology SOL-20, and wonder if > anyone can advise on what video monitors are compatible with it (how > about an old IBM monochrome monitor - hercules compatible?), and what > the video connector on the back is (huge 1/2" dia. coax connector) - are > the mating connectors still available? > > Second, I'm planning to use my PC sound card to record/playback in lieu > of a tape recorder (more reliable, less hassle), and wonder if anyone > has done the same with any success? > > Thanks, > > Ben > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Oct 8 20:30:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: 10 years - Old Newtons References: Message-ID: <017c01c26f33$859b2df0$1c010240@oemcomputer> Yes it is. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Keys" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 5:12 PM Subject: Re: 10 years - Old Newtons > > That eMate 300. Is that the laptop-formfactor (sort of) green machine > with no moving parts? Those things rocked. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Keys wrote: > > > I have several older models the 100, 110, 120, 130, and eMate 300. They are > > all really cool. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Honniball" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 4:55 PM > > Subject: Re: 10 years > > > > > > > > > > Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > > Speaking of which... somebody must have a Newton??? > > > > > > Yes, I have one: a MessagePad model H1000. I also have an > > > Amstrad PenPad PDA 600, an HP OmniGo, a Philips Nino and > > > a Microwriter AgendA. > > > > > > Ooops, the Newton's only nine years old; I claim "cool factor"! > > > > > > -- > > > John Honniball > > > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Oct 8 20:32:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: 10 years - Old Newtons References: <200210090130.SAA28016@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <018a01c26f33$e32ede30$1c010240@oemcomputer> Has anyone else seen the pink and purple models? They were done up for a special show. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 8:30 PM Subject: Re: 10 years - Old Newtons > > That eMate 300. Is that the laptop-formfactor (sort of) green machine > > with no moving parts? Those things rocked. > > They sure did. Mine has a cracked LCD. :-( > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Since we're all here, we must not be all there. -- Bob "Mountain" Beck ----- > From apple at cmc.net Tue Oct 8 20:39:00 2002 From: apple at cmc.net (Jack Noble) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:50 2005 Subject: OSI disk basic disk References: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146EAD@BUSH02> Message-ID: <00a501c26f34$d1adb540$3b0fbbd0@oemcomputer> Lee, First let me thank you for inspiring me to dust off my old C4P. It required the usual backplane cleaning and chip reseating but lo and behold it's working again. It has an 80 track DD 3.5 inch drive so I've made you a copy of OS65D 3.3 along with some of Rich Tretheway's operating system enhancements. Let me have your address and I'll put it in the mail. I suppose it should be easier to email you the "disk image" but trust me when I say that you will get it sooner if I mail it to you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davison, Lee" To: Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 1:31 AM Subject: RE: OSI disk basic disk > > >> Does anyone have an image of the OSI Disk BASIC disk? > > > Did they actually have anything called "Disk BASIC"? When > > I used OSI systems, they had two operating systems, OS-65/D > > and OS-65/U (not sure of the punctuation in those). > > There was advertised, at least in the UK, a disk expansion > (OSI 610) that included 12k disk BASIC on disk. From what > I remember if you got the fully populated expansion (24k) > and had the full complement of RAM on the CPU (8k) you had > 19000 and something bytes free after loading the disk BASIC. > > > OS-65/D was what was normally found on smaller systems. > > It was a pathetic excuse for an operating system. > > Now I've gone to the trouble of building the hardware I'd like > to try some original software on it. > > Lee. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Oct 8 20:53:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: VirtualPC for OS/2 In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at Oct 07, 2002 05:38:37 PM Message-ID: <200210090154.g991shL18028@shell1.aracnet.com> > Does anyone have experience with Connectix VirtualPC for OS/2? > > Peace... Sridhar > I don't have any experience with the version for OS/2 (I didn't even know there was one), however, I've found their product for the Mac to be excellent. Connectix VirtualPC for OS/2 looks most interesting, but way more than I care to spend. BTW, does this mean you're back on the list? If so welcome back. Zane From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Oct 8 21:15:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum References: <200210090132.SAA30608@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3DA3914E.7020201@jetnet.ab.ca> Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>Or even a 64 bit-wide Z80 :) > > > I'd like a 64-bit 6502 myself. Someone is working on a 32-bit one, however. > *** Cough gag cough *** The lovable 8 bit cpu's were designed for 8 bits only. I am a strong beliver in large word lengths but not in 7 bit character data like ASCII was. 9,10,12 bits make nice 'byte' sized data and still give reasonable memory space as 64kb we now know is too small for real use. 64kb code and data space will give you a nice but limited software basebase. B&W screen resulution of about 640 x 400 is a full 64k too. I figure a real computer needs to have a well designed instruction set and 8 bits don't cut it. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 8 21:29:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks Message-ID: Processor? 68020 @ 20MHz Memory? Mine has 8MB, apparently Disk capacity? Not sure, mine has a 340MB ESDI drive though Disk format parameters even? Don't know, have no manuals.. my dad bought the machine for me at an auction for a whole 5 bucks... It was marked as a "UPS" heh. Oh it appears to use a modified VME bus possibly.. not sure.. The FDD itself is a Panasonic JU-475-2, and the tape drive is a Tandberg TDC 3820 (525MB QIC-type) Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 8 21:32:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021007231016.0079c340@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021008223312.50df0918@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Gil, I have three or four 9915s and a keyboard. This is the only keyboard that I know of. It took me several years of looking to find it and I only found it by shear accident. I've only been able to find one or two docs for the 9915 and they're not very usefull. One was about networking 9915s, I don't remember what the other was about. More below. At 11:10 PM 10/7/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hi folks: > >I am new to the classiccmp list. I am an EE, and collect teletype machines >and HP test gear. My first computer was an RCA VIP 1802-based board. My >second was an Apple II. I got to play with some bigger stuff when I worked >at Cray Research a decade ago. But I digress. > >I have also been collecting HP 85 computer stuff (85A, 85B, 3"/5"/8" >drives, roms, cards...), and I just got a 9915A, which is the industrial >version of the HP 85A (cpu-only in a half-rack box). > >This 9915A does not have the tape drive (option 001), That's odd. EVERY 9915 that I've heard about had both option 001 and 002. I was beginning to wonder if they ever built any without the options! but has the operator >interface card (opt 002), which provides connectors for keyboard (DB-25F), >control (DB-15F), and video (BNC). The problem is, I have no keyboard, >monitor, or documentation of any sort for the 9915. I have most of the >useful 85 docs (short of the service manual), but nothing on the 9915. > >Judging from the number of pcb connections to the keyboard connector, I'd >guess it uses a special parallel keyboard. I found reference to a 98155A >keyboard in a post about a 9915B (85B-compatible), and I presume that is >the same keyboard used with the A version. I don't know what the difference is between an A and a B model. I don't recall being aware that there were two different models. I don't recall which model(s) I have. You are correct about the PN of the keyboard. I did make a schematic of my keyboard but I haven't seen it in a while. I think it got tossed in the gaint purge I had here about a year ago. > >I hooked the video up to the composite input of a tv, and saw text and >graphics when I ran the self-test from the front-panel buttons of the 9915. > The image seemed wider than the screen, and I'm not sure if is just my tv >adjustment, or if the video signal is not quite ntsc composite. You need to use the HP composite monitors. IIRC the PN is 82912 and 82913. These are used on the HP 86 and commonly used on the 9000 220 (aka 9920) and are pretty common. > >As for the control connector, I have no idea what that might be used for. I don't recall if it's input and output or only input but the 9915 can detect switch closures and take pre-programmed action. >There is also a little board inside that has eight sockets, four of which >are populated with 2732 eproms. I am wondering whether this is part of the >cpu system, or if it is for embedded program storage like the programmable >rom card for the 85. The later. There were software developement kits available that let you write programs in assembler and burn them into EPROMs that plugged into a HP-85 type plug-in cartridges (called a Hybrid ROM or something like that) or directly into the 9915. The EPROMs that are in it are probably Matrix and/or I/O ROM IIRC. That seems to be standard in the 9915s that I'm aware of. FYI The 9915 doesn't use the HP-85 custom hybrid processor but uses an Intel CPU instead! However it does use the HP-85 keyboard processor but only for the timers that it contains. > >I presume that I can hook up a disk with an hp-ib card (and rom), so it >should be usable once I find a keyboard and appropriate monitor. Correct. With the keyboard and monitor it should act exactly like a HP-85 (except your's doesn't have the tape drive). But it's a lot easier to find a HP 85, 86 or 87. Joe > >Anyone have any docs/info/tidbits/keyboard...? > >thanks, > >gil smith > > >;----------------------------------------------------------- >; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 >; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) >;----------------------------------------------------------- > From thompson at new.rr.com Tue Oct 8 21:53:01 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Help needed with MicroVAX 3400 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006154823.0226ca90@pop.softhome.net> Message-ID: It would be helpful to know what sort of network card it is. What is in the output of uerf -R that might be relevant, including system startup messages? Do you have the microvax diagnostic tape (if there's a tape drive...) What shows up in netstat -i netstat -I {interface name} -s On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Stefan wrote: > Hi there, > > I have here a MicroVAX 3400 with Ultrix 4.5 on it. All seems to be running > fine, except from the fact that I cant seem to get any action from the > ethernet port. I myself think its dead but I thought I'd ask here before > I'd give it totally up. > The network card is detected but no lights go on, neither can I do anything > on the network or does it show any connection on the hub. I can ping > localhost and the ip address i gave it, thats how far it goes. If i want to > ping anything else it says, network not reachable (or something like that). > > Anybody any ideas ?? > > yours, > > Stefan. > -- From jrice54 at charter.net Tue Oct 8 21:57:07 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: 10 years References: <200210030119.g931Jni17129@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3DA39667.8070207@charter.net> By the strict 10 year rule, Tandy 1000's are on-topic. I bought the first one the day before Thanksgiving 1985 on a Tandy Business lease for $2700. Included a second floppy drive, CM-4 monitor, a DMP-130 printer, Star Accounting Partner software and Friday, a simple data base program by Ashton-Tate. Friday was a menu driven program that generated dBase-II code. I still have the disks. I ran a company off the two floppies until late 1986, when the price of a 10mb hard drive dropped to about $800. My 2000 is even older. James http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html Zane H. Healy wrote: >>Would anyone object to adding an official 'cool factor clause' to the >>10-year rule? We already sorta have that now, where a newer computer (e.g. >>mid-90s SGI MIPS) has sufficient cool factor that we're ok with it. All we >>need is a concept of negative cool factor, so that some computers (e.g. >>Packard Bell PC) might never be on-topic. >> >>In reality, this isn't any more ambiguous than what we already have. The >>other option would be to develop some sort of unit for classicity and set a >>threshold above which a machine is on-topic. >> >>Jeffrey Sharp >> >> > >I for one obviously don't have a problem with having an official 'cool >factor clause'. After all, then my DEC PWS 433au running OpenVMS would be >ontopic, as would systems such as BeBox's and the like. > >I think as a whole, systems that aren't x86 based, or Mac's that are less >than 10 years old have been considered to have suffecient 'coolness factor'. >Besides, about all that seems to cover is UNIX workstations, and OpenVMS >systems. > >Also, I think 'custom built' x86 systems that have been specifically built >to emulate older hardware, such as a PDP-10 are almost ontopic. > > Zane > > > > -- From archer at topnow.com Tue Oct 8 21:58:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum References: <200210090132.SAA30608@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3DA39BA6.168C8C0C@topnow.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Imagine if the same amount of effort was applied > > to a sensible machine, like MIPS, Alpha, or ARM! > > Or PowerPC :-) PowerPC has both segmentation and paging. Segmentation and base-bounds is ugly dead-tech from last century which has been proven redundant when a grown-up paging mechanism is provided. May segmentation rest in (odd-sized, hard-to-manage, barely demand-swappable) pieces. :) If someone tells me you can turn off the segmentation logic in some variant of PowerPC, I might change my mind about it. :) > > > Or even a 64 bit-wide Z80 :) > > I'd like a 64-bit 6502 myself. Someone is working on a 32-bit one, however. Agreed. 6502 expanded to 32 bits would be very nice. Some changes would be needed to make it gogofast, like a good cache system and possibly a more load/store orientation and more registers. Which is pretty much what ARM is. Have you looked at the ARM instruction set? It actually has a lot of similarity to a "stretch" 6502. :) > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Mmmm, Windows user. Crunchy and good with ketchup. -- Dave McGuire --------- From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Oct 8 22:05:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Questions about a HP Apollo 735/125 In-Reply-To: <02100802345701.00810@dh9dat-w> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021008230323.00e50cf8@pop1.epm.net.co> At 02:34 AM 10/8/02 +0000, you wrote: >Hi folks, > >I just 'won' an old HP Apollo 700 Series, Model 735/125. Unfortunately, I >don't have ANY information about it - searching HP's website took me to the >service manual, so I know a little bit more about it now. >By searching the web, I've learned that I can use a standard PC-VGA monitor >with the apollo, by soldering (or buying, :-( ) a special cable. Yes, as long as the monitor can accept a sync-on-green signal (not all SuperVGA monitors do). >But, a few questions remain: >- Can I use a standard PC keyboard with the Apollo? It just has a so-called > "HPIL"-connector on the back, and I don't have such a keyboard... No, unfortunately HP-HIL (not HP-IL) keyboards are not compatible with any PC-style keyboard. >- What about a mouse? Unfortunately, I just got the machine, and nothing > else... Ditto... you need an HP-HIL mouse. >- My Apollo doesn't have a standard LAN-connector, just an AUI... But, I saw > it has a EISA slot, and the manual told me that EISA is fully compliat to > ISA (didn't know this before...). So, can I just equip the Apollo with one > of my old ISA Novell/ Eagle-cards? There's an EISA card in the slot, but > this seems to be a Token Ring (it's called a "Ring" card) The PROM only works with HP cards and some specially-made third-party cards. Your best bet is to obtain an appropriate transceiver and plug it in the AUI connector. The 735/125 is a nice machine; built like a tank and very reliable. I have one that I still use regularly. You can use wide scsi (high-voltage differential) drives with it. You need HP-UX 10.2 for it (though it has been said that a special installation of HPUX 11 will work in it, though it is not supported). It would be great if you found the keyboard and mouse; these are really nice systems. I have some more info on this system; please contact me off the list. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Oct 8 22:08:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: What video monitor for SOL-20? In-Reply-To: <017201c26f33$5dac3fa0$1c010240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20021009030954.5307.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> I'm almost certain that the video is standard, plain old NTSC RS-170, which you could probably hook up to any modern TV having a video input with a simple mechanical adapter. Much as it makes me ill to mention this, but Radio SH**, which has gotten enormously worse in just the last 3 months, probably will have an adapter to a more modern RCA for it. You MIGHT be able able to get a decent display from an RF modulator but at 64 characters by 16, it would be close. > > I've just acquired an old Processor Technology > SOL-20, and wonder if > > anyone can advise on what video monitors are > compatible with it (how > > about an old IBM monochrome monitor - hercules > compatible?), and what > > the video connector on the back is (huge 1/2" dia. > coax connector) - are > > the mating connectors still available? > > > > Second, I'm planning to use my PC sound card to > record/playback in lieu > > of a tape recorder (more reliable, less hassle), > and wonder if anyone > > has done the same with any success? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ben > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Oct 8 22:50:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: New Toy... Fujitsu Stylistic 1000 Message-ID: <200210082050.17478.rhudson@cnonline.net> Is it too new to be on subject? It's got a digitizer screen, but I got it without the pen. My stylus for my pilot doesn't seem to work, oh well I got it with a keyboard and mouse. currently running windows 98 : ^ ) From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 8 22:54:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > Disk format parameters even? Don't know, have no manuals.. my dad bought the > machine for me at an auction for a whole 5 bucks... It was marked as a "UPS" > heh. Oh it appears to use a modified VME bus possibly.. not sure.. Yep. I got a disk sent to me once to analyze that was labeled as coming from a "UPS". Gee! maybe it was from YOUR machine! :-) > The FDD itself is a Panasonic JU-475-2, That is without question a 1.2M drive. Although it is possible to use it as a 720K, we can probably assume "high density". Any details on the operating system? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 8 22:58:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: <3DA39667.8070207@charter.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, James Rice wrote: > By the strict 10 year rule, Tandy 1000's are on-topic. I bought the > My 2000 is even older. Both the 2000 and 1000 had interesting deviations from the PC "standard". The 2000 was a "720K" 5.25" disk format. IIRC, The 1000 did not use DMA for disk I/O, somewhat like the PCJr. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 8 23:01:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Yep. I got a disk sent to me once to analyze that was labeled as coming > from a "UPS". Gee! maybe it was from YOUR machine! :-) Actually, it was just labelled "UPS", so maybe it was from a United Parcel Service computer. Federal Express had their own laser printers (CX engine in a PURPLE case). From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Oct 8 23:04:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: What video monitor for SOL-20? In-Reply-To: <3DA322A1.5020104@ntplx.net> Message-ID: > Second, I'm planning to use my PC sound card to record/playback in lieu > of a tape recorder (more reliable, less hassle), and wonder if anyone > has done the same with any success? Just use the serial port... It's more reliable. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Oct 8 23:05:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: <200210021806540535.A39850CC@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Bruce Lane wrote: > Actually, that's a 2.2 gig drive. The 12400N is an early Hawk series, > very popular with the Sun 'lunchbox' systems. As a matter of fact, I'd like to find one of these for my Sparc LX. It came without a drive (removed because the place that owned it was paranoid). -Toth From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 8 23:05:19 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Help needed with reading Altos 3068 disks Message-ID: Well as for the OS, all I can say is it is a UNIX System V variant... I wish I had manuals, etc. *sigh* _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Oct 8 23:06:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 10/8/02 10:59 PM, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) at cisin@xenosoft.com wrote: > On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, James Rice wrote: > >> By the strict 10 year rule, Tandy 1000's are on-topic. I bought the >> My 2000 is even older. > > Both the 2000 and 1000 had interesting deviations from the PC "standard". > The 2000 was a "720K" 5.25" disk format. > > IIRC, > The 1000 did not use DMA for disk I/O, somewhat like the PCJr. The 1000 was designed by Tandy as a PCjr clone, but when the PCjr failed commercially, Tandy marketed it as a PC clone. So the 1000 has several similarities to the PCjr. -- Owen Robertson From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Oct 8 23:07:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: OSI disk basic disk In-Reply-To: <00a501c26f34$d1adb540$3b0fbbd0@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > First let me thank you for inspiring me to dust off my old C4P. It > required the usual backplane cleaning and chip reseating but lo and behold > it's working again. It has an 80 track DD 3.5 inch drive so I've made you a > copy of OS65D 3.3 along with some of Rich Tretheway's operating system > enhancements. Let me have your address and I'll put it in the mail. I > suppose it should be easier to email you the "disk image" but trust me when > I say that you will get it sooner if I mail it to you. Goodness, I'm glad you did that. My conscience has been gnawing at me to but getting the time is proving difficult. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Oct 8 23:22:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific's Rescued...need help/info! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Last night I rescued two Ohio Scientific systems: Congrats! > A challenger C1P and Plastic or metal case? > A Challenger II (which was a MUCH bigger box, and had a matching big, > heavy dual 8" floppy cabinet). Blue/black or tan/brown? > The haul also included an ADM-3A terminal (always wanted one of > these), and a dual 5 1/4" floppy cabinet (don't know which system > this goes to). I would like to see a picture of this. It's probably not OSI. > I got no documentation, no software or anything > (these were all picked up from a curb-side garbage pile!!)! Lucky, lucky lucky! Where? > Any pointers to documentation, software, specifications, etc?? I have lot's of docs, etc. for OSI. OSI is the principle focus of my collection. > I've read the stuff on a careful process to power-up an altair...does > this apply to these systems too (I don't have much in the way of > electronic test equipment or power supplies). OSI uses regulated supplies. Generally, they either work or they don't. I've never had one zap anything... but anyway, the 5 volt supply in the C1P is easily disconnected from the main (and only) board. Put a dummy load on it and check. 4.7 to 5.3 is cool. The Chal. II will probably have a PowerOne supply (again, very reliable in my experiance). Pull all of the cards from the "fatherboard" (you'll need to anyway, just to reestablish contact) (the order of the boards on the bus does not matter) and put dummy loads and check voltages on the following pins (counting 1 to 48, top to bottom): 23 - +12 24 - -9 25 - +5 26 - +5 27 - gnd 28 - gnd > Man...I hate to think of these classic's going landfill...... gotta > save 'em all! Contrats again! From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Oct 8 23:29:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific's Rescued...need help/info! In-Reply-To: <21.254ecdea.2ad30354@aol.com> Message-ID: SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I have 5 C1P models including a plastic case one. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Any chance I could pry that out of your cold dead hands... Uh, I mean trade you something for that? ;-) Bill From marvin at rain.org Tue Oct 8 23:38:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Questions about a HP Apollo 735/125 References: <02100802345701.00810@dh9dat-w> Message-ID: <3DA3B2FB.42175615@rain.org> Harald Husemann wrote: > > - Can I use a standard PC keyboard with the Apollo? It just has a so-called > "HPIL"-connector on the back, and I don't have such a keyboard... > - What about a mouse? Unfortunately, I just got the machine, and nothing > else... I have an Apollo Keyboard and mouse assembly with a 7 pin DIN connector that looks to be about the same size as the IBM keyboard ... except more pins :). Let me know if you are interested. Otherwise it will probably show up at VCF ... or the trash. From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Oct 8 23:54:00 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: What video monitor for SOL-20? In-Reply-To: <3DA322A1.5020104@ntplx.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021008204706.02207a00@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 02:23 PM 10/8/02 -0400, Ben Bridgwater wrote: >I've just acquired an old Processor Technology SOL-20, and wonder if >anyone can advise on what video monitors are compatible with it (how about >an old IBM monochrome monitor - hercules compatible?), and what the video >connector on the back is (huge 1/2" dia. coax connector) - are the mating >connectors still available? > >Second, I'm planning to use my PC sound card to record/playback in lieu of >a tape recorder (more reliable, less hassle), and wonder if anyone has >done the same with any success? > >Thanks, > >Ben It should hook up to any monitor that you might find in north america, BW preferrably. The only weirdness is the PL59 connector, so you may have to build a PL59 to BNC or what-have-you cable to connect it to your monitor. I picked up a 9" B&W security monitor for $10 at a swap meet and it has worked just fine. Here's where I get to plug my web site: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html You may want to seek out the section on repairing the keyboard. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Oct 8 23:54:28 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: What video monitor for SOL-20? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021008205452.03330380@postoffice.pacbell.net> Duh, memory fades ... PL259! >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Jim Battle >Subject: Re: What video monitor for SOL-20? > >At 02:23 PM 10/8/02 -0400, Ben Bridgwater wrote: >>I've just acquired an old Processor Technology SOL-20, and wonder if >>anyone can advise on what video monitors are compatible with it (how >>about an old IBM monochrome monitor - hercules compatible?), and what the >>video connector on the back is (huge 1/2" dia. coax connector) - are the >>mating connectors still available? >> >>Second, I'm planning to use my PC sound card to record/playback in lieu >>of a tape recorder (more reliable, less hassle), and wonder if anyone has >>done the same with any success? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Ben > >It should hook up to any monitor that you might find in north america, BW >preferrably. The only weirdness is the PL59 connector, so you may have to >build a PL59 to BNC or what-have-you cable to connect it to your >monitor. I picked up a 9" B&W security monitor for $10 at a swap meet and >it has worked just fine. > >Here's where I get to plug my web site: > http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html > >You may want to seek out the section on repairing the keyboard. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From red at bears.org Tue Oct 8 23:59:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Questions about a HP Apollo 735/125 In-Reply-To: <3DA3B2FB.42175615@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > - Can I use a standard PC keyboard with the Apollo? It just has a so-called > > "HPIL"-connector on the back, and I don't have such a keyboard... > > - What about a mouse? Unfortunately, I just got the machine, and nothing > > else... > > I have an Apollo Keyboard and mouse assembly with a 7 pin DIN connector > that looks to be about the same size as the IBM keyboard ... except more > pins :). Let me know if you are interested. Otherwise it will probably > show up at VCF ... or the trash. It's not useful with any of the HP9000 700-series, as it's not HP-HIL either. I already gave away all my spare HIL keyboards and mice, but I can keep an eye out for more. There are four variations of Apollo keyboards. They work on Apollo DN-series workstations, or HP9000 400-series running DOMAIN (i.e. not HP-UX). KBD1 is big and clunky. It's dark colored, with light typewriter keys and dark function keys. It shipped with the early 'dishwasher' nodes, like the DN100 and DN400. KBD2 is low-profile, and has black function keys numbered F1-F8. It shipped with the DN300. KBD3 is low-profile, and has grey function keys numbered F0-F9. These shipped with the DN3000, DN3500, et al. Apparently sometimes it doesn't work with the X11R4 server. KBD4 has two alt keys on either side of the space bar, and is the only keyboard supported if you are running X11R4. It shipped with the HP9000 400-series systems. Marvin, if your keyboard is any of these besides KBD3, I could use it. ok r. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 9 00:25:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Did a listmember get this "PDP-11/44" (really a *loaded* PDP-8/a) Message-ID: <20021009052637.95979.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> I was perusing alt.sys.pdp11 via deja.com recently, and ran across a posting offering a "PDP-11/44" for sale... http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&start=50&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=alt.sys.pdp11&safe=off&selm=3D7426A6.3040303%40nospaminsight.rr.com I'm sure that message will hit a line break, so be sure to reconnect it when you cut-and-paste. To make it easy of folks, let me quote the contents... "The system has the following cards in it M8300, M8310, M8316, 3 x M8319, M8320, M8330,M8357, M8416, 2 x M8417, M8433." ... plus an RL02, RX02, 18 RL01Ks, boxes of floppies, docs, etc... The astute reader will quickly notice that those are *not* PDP-11 handle numbers. It's a PDP-8/a with KK8E processor, KT8A, DKC8-AA, RL8A, RK8E, KL8A and a wad of RAM. Even better, it was in Columbus, about four miles from my farm. The bad news is that I learned about it three weeks too late. It did not get scrapped; it sold. I'm curious if any of us got it, and if someone here did, if they could make images of the RL01s and floppies available. Wish I could have gotten it, but the hardware is nothing I don't already have, so hopefully it went to a good home. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Oct 9 00:27:00 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: What video monitor for SOL-20? In-Reply-To: <3DA322A1.5020104@ntplx.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021008222342.02205020@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 02:23 PM 10/8/02 -0400, Ben Bridgwater wrote: >I've just acquired an old Processor Technology SOL-20, ... >Second, I'm planning to use my PC sound card to record/playback in lieu of >a tape recorder (more reliable, less hassle), and wonder if anyone has >done the same with any success? I've been using the serial port to send/receive programs. Using a tape has met with mixed success. Besides, the tape peaks at 1200 baud, while the serial port should be able to go higher than that. An interesting experiment would be to convert some of the .ENT format program files from my web site and use one of the programs here: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~edsa/ to convert it to a .WAV file. I haven't tried it myself, but it should work pretty well. I've tried Ed's program to decode a .WAV file back to binary, but it hasn't worked at all on real recordings. It works fine on the .WAV files that Ed's programs generate, though. And for those of you who don't care about Sol's, the programs mentioned above supposedly work for any tapes recorded in KCS format. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Oct 9 01:29:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Questions about a HP Apollo 735/125 In-Reply-To: References: <3DA3B2FB.42175615@rain.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021008233130.04f05c40@mail.zipcon.net> At 01:00 AM 10/9/02 -0400, you wrote: >It's not useful with any of the HP9000 700-series, as it's not HP-HIL >either. I already gave away all my spare HIL keyboards and mice, but I can >keep an eye out for more. Please do! I have a apollo series 700 and could use a KB and mouse, especially if you happen to come across one cheap :) From jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Oct 9 04:06:01 2002 From: jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Questions about a HP Apollo 735/125 In-Reply-To: <02100802345701.00810@dh9dat-w> References: <02100802345701.00810@dh9dat-w> Message-ID: <20021009091647.GA10853@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, Oct 08, 2002 at 02:34:57AM +0000, Harald Husemann wrote: > I just 'won' an old HP Apollo 700 Series, Model 735/125. 1. The "Apollo" in the name is only the fart of a marketing droid. Apollo was long gone and dead when this machine was build. The more correct name for this thing is HP 9000 735/125. It is a HP PA-RISC 7100, 125 MHz based machine, not M68k as the Apollos. It is a nice machine and the PA-RISC CPUs have a lot of bang for the MHz. You can run HP-UX, NetBSD or Linux on it: http://www.parisc-linux.org/ http://www.debian.org/ports/hppa/ NetBSD, the OS of my choice, is on the way, but not that far as Linux: http://www.de.netbsd.org/Ports/hp700/ > - Anyone has a PIN-layout for the monitor cable? I know that I have to solder > red to red VGA, red ground to red ground, and so on, but I don't know the > pinout of the VGA connector... http://www.hardwarebook.net/ more precise: http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/av/vga15.html > - Can I use a standard PC keyboard with the Apollo? It just has a so-called > "HPIL"-connector on the back, and I don't have such a keyboard... You need a special HP-HIL keyboard and mouse. HP-HIL is a desktop bus like ADB or USB. The original Apollo keyboards will not fit as they are not HP-HIL and the 735/125 has no Apollo keyboard connector (7 pin DIN) like the late HP 9000 300 (400) M68k machines. > - My Apollo doesn't have a standard LAN-connector, just an AUI... Get a transceiver from epay or your favorite hardware dealer. BTW: AUI is a standard LAN-connector. ;-) > it has a EISA slot, and the manual told me that EISA is fully compliat to > ISA (didn't know this before...). So, can I just equip the Apollo with one > of my old ISA Novell/ Eagle-cards? PeeCee junk in a precious machine like that, what a disgusting thought. ;-) > There's an EISA card in the slot, but > this seems to be a Token Ring (it's called a "Ring" card) What connector does it have? 7W2? > Harald (bofh@dh9dat.de) Ahhh, Germanien. dh9dat? Funker? Ich hab einige HIL Tastaturen über. Da würde ich dir u.U. duchaus eine für einen kleinen Obulus abgeben... -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Oct 9 05:28:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Speaking of SOLs... Message-ID: Did anyone bid on that recent epay lot of two SOLs that was canceled? Was any reason given? Did somebody on the list get them via other means? From roosmcd at dds.nl Wed Oct 9 06:34:00 2002 From: roosmcd at dds.nl (roosmcd@dds.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <20021009035800.71368.18115.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021009035800.71368.18115.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1034163054.3da4136eb8640@webmail.dds.nl> Hello, I also have a HP 9915A in my possesion. Useless without keyboard and I also have only documentation for the HP-85. > >There is also a little board inside that has eight sockets, four of which > >are populated with 2732 eproms. I am wondering whether this is part of > the > >cpu system, or if it is for embedded program storage like the programmable > >rom card for the 85. > > The later. There were software developement kits available that let you > write programs in assembler and burn them into EPROMs that plugged into a > HP-85 type plug-in cartridges (called a Hybrid ROM or something like that) or > directly into the 9915. The EPROMs that are in it are probably Matrix and/or > I/O ROM IIRC. That seems to be standard in the 9915s that I'm aware of. This sounds like they are absolute unobtainium today? I'd better start looking for a HP-85, only they seem to want quite some money when I see them on eBay :). > FYI The 9915 doesn't use the HP-85 custom hybrid processor but uses an > Intel CPU instead! However it does use the HP-85 keyboard processor but only > for the timers that it contains. Are you sure? I must take a look at my machine then.. What kind of processor is in there? > >I presume that I can hook up a disk with an hp-ib card (and rom), so it > >should be usable once I find a keyboard and appropriate monitor. > > Correct. With the keyboard and monitor it should act exactly like a HP-85 > (except your's doesn't have the tape drive). But it's a lot easier to find a > HP 85, 86 or 87. I've always assumed you can't hook up a disk since there is are no disk routines in ROM? greetings, Michiel From roosmcd at dds.nl Wed Oct 9 06:41:00 2002 From: roosmcd at dds.nl (roosmcd@dds.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Interpro 125 In-Reply-To: <20021009035800.71368.18115.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021009035800.71368.18115.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1034163467.3da4150bdd012@webmail.dds.nl> Hello, Some time ago I got a couple of Intergraph Clipper machines. The 2000's are running great now (I even bought extra memory of eBay :), but I'm still having some troubles with my Interpro 125. When I got it, it was without a hard drive. So I put in a scsi drive and tried to restore the OS with the boot floppies. There is a set of 5 floppies and a program in the ROM that asks for DISK 1 trhough 5 for restoring CLIX. This program runs fine, however about halfway (sometimes I got up to disk 4) a 'screensaver' (the sliding intergraph) kicks in and I'm back to the boot-up screen. I've tried turning off the screensaver in the prom, but it still happens :(. Does anyone have an idea what to do or the cause of what is happening? I've tried tapping keys and moving the mouse, but this doesn't seem to help.. greetings, Michiel From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Wed Oct 9 06:59:01 2002 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific's Rescued...need help/info! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Last night I rescued two Ohio Scientific systems: > >Congrats! > > > A challenger C1P and > >Plastic or metal case? I think metal, but I haven't examined it thoroughly yet though..what's the difference (besides the materials used)? > > A Challenger II (which was a MUCH bigger box, and had a matching big, > > heavy dual 8" floppy cabinet). > >Blue/black or tan/brown? tan/brown What's the difference? I've seen many old ads showing the Challender II's, but they always seemed to be the blue ones..how are the tan ones different? > > The haul also included an ADM-3A terminal (always wanted one of > > these), and a dual 5 1/4" floppy cabinet (don't know which system > > this goes to). > >I would like to see a picture of this. It's probably not OSI. > > > I got no documentation, no software or anything > > (these were all picked up from a curb-side garbage pile!!)! > >Lucky, lucky lucky! Where? Chicago suburbs. > > Any pointers to documentation, software, specifications, etc?? > >I have lot's of docs, etc. for OSI. OSI is the principle focus >of my collection. Do you have any of these docs online? I'd love to see some specs and some docs for these systems as I start playing with 'em. The C1P has a ribbon cable coming out of the side of the top, that looks like it's intended to hook into some other board..any idea what this might be for? (it comes out of the right side of the keyboard). thanks! -Bob > > I've read the stuff on a careful process to power-up an altair...does > > this apply to these systems too (I don't have much in the way of > > electronic test equipment or power supplies). > >OSI uses regulated supplies. Generally, they either work or they don't. >I've never had one zap anything... but anyway, the 5 volt supply in the >C1P is easily disconnected from the main (and only) board. Put a dummy >load on it and check. 4.7 to 5.3 is cool. > >The Chal. II will probably have a PowerOne supply (again, very reliable >in my experiance). Pull all of the cards from the "fatherboard" (you'll >need to anyway, just to reestablish contact) (the order of the boards on >the bus does not matter) and put dummy loads and check voltages on the >following pins (counting 1 to 48, top to bottom): > >23 - +12 >24 - -9 >25 - +5 >26 - +5 >27 - gnd >28 - gnd > > > Man...I hate to think of these classic's going landfill...... gotta > > save 'em all! > >Contrats again! bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 9 07:59:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <1034163054.3da4136eb8640@webmail.dds.nl> References: <20021009035800.71368.18115.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20021009035800.71368.18115.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021009085022.48274666@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Greetings from Florida! At 01:30 PM 10/9/02 +0200, you wrote: > Hello, > > I also have a HP 9915A in my possesion. Useless without keyboard and I also >have only documentation for the HP-85. The way the 9915 is inteneded to be used is as an unattended computer with no operator, that's why they came without keyboards. The intention is that the application program will be loaded from a tape using an AUTOST program or else that the program will be loaded into EPROM and run automaticly from there. In either case, no operator action is inteneded beyond loading a tape and perhaps restarting the 9915. Maybe I should back up. You do know that the 9915 will read HP-85 tapes and run the HP-85 programs don't you? The HP-85 is inteneded to be the developement system for the 9915. > >> >There is also a little board inside that has eight sockets, four of which >> >are populated with 2732 eproms. I am wondering whether this is part of >> the >> >cpu system, or if it is for embedded program storage like the programmable >> >rom card for the 85. >> >> The later. There were software developement kits available that let you >> write programs in assembler and burn them into EPROMs that plugged into a >> HP-85 type plug-in cartridges (called a Hybrid ROM or something like that) or >> directly into the 9915. The EPROMs that are in it are probably Matrix and/or >> I/O ROM IIRC. That seems to be standard in the 9915s that I'm aware of. > > This sounds like they are absolute unobtainium today? I'd better start looking >for a HP-85, only they seem to want quite some money when I see them on >eBay :). Are you kidding? I've seen plenty of them go cheap. But you should really look for a lot better machine like the 87XM. They have a lot more memory and have a number of ROMs built-in. Take a look at . It has some comparisions of the various models. > >> FYI The 9915 doesn't use the HP-85 custom hybrid processor but uses an >> Intel CPU instead! However it does use the HP-85 keyboard processor but only >> for the timers that it contains. > > Are you sure? I must take a look at my machine then.. What kind of processor >is in there? IIRC it's an intel MCS-51. The 9915 was designed and built in Germany while the HP-85 was designed and built in Colorado. That's probably why the difference in architecture. > >> >I presume that I can hook up a disk with an hp-ib card (and rom), so it >> >should be usable once I find a keyboard and appropriate monitor. >> >> Correct. With the keyboard and monitor it should act exactly like a HP-85 >> (except your's doesn't have the tape drive). But it's a lot easier to find a >> HP 85, 86 or 87. > > I've always assumed you can't hook up a disk since there is are no disk >routines in ROM? IIRC it (and the HP 85) will support the old drives that use the Amigo command protocall such of the old HP 9895 8" floppy drives, the old HP 8290x 5 1/4" floppy drives and the HP 9121 3.5" floppy drive. If you have the Extended Mass Storage ROM it will also support some of the newer drives (the ones that use the SS-80 protocall IIRC). The HP 9122 is a common SS-80 drive. FWIW there's a special version of the 9133 hard drives that have the disk partitioned to look like four 8" floppy drives. It's the 9133V. You may also have to have option 004. The docs are unclear about that, the drive manual says that they 9133V and the 9133V option 4 will both work with the HP 8x series but some of the catalogs indicate that only the 9133V WITH option 4 will do so. Some of the catalogs specify that the necessary option is option 010 and some say that you can use the XV models, including the HP 9134 XV, so this whole subject is confused. Oh yes, at least one catalog says that the HP 8xs will support the 9153 hard drive but I'm pretty certain that that is wrong. Joe > > greetings, > Michiel > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 9 08:00:05 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: specs for Dysam 224/2A alignment disks? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021009085729.48270b18@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know the specs for these disks? Where the cat's eye pattern is located? How many sectors and tracks they have, etc etc? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 9 09:46:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: manual(s) for Fluke 9010 Troubleshooter 8080 and 8085 pods? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021009105029.472fc134@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have manuals for these two pods? I have both of them and they've suddenly gone bad and fail self-test. Both where previously tested good and were properly stored and never used. But last week I pulled one out to use it and the self-test showed it bad before it was even connected to the UUT. Today the same thing happened with another pod! I was using them on a 9010 mainframe that I got recently and I wonder if it somehow damaged them. I can't think of any other explaination. I did verify that they are bad using another mainframe. Does anyone have any ideas? Anyone have manuals for these? joe From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 9 11:05:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum In-Reply-To: <04fb01c26ec6$db8b61c0$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Dave Brown wrote: > They actually go back pre WW2. I have bound copies of full years from the > mid thirties up through WW2 as far as 1949/50. Great reading-specially the > adverts! "Electronics" goes back to the late 1920's or early 1930's. I have bound volumes of every year from the first to about the mid 1980's. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Oct 9 11:44:00 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: manual(s) for Fluke 9010 Troubleshooter 8080 and 8085 pods? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021009105029.472fc134@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021009124427.00abae58@mail.njd.concentric.com> Joe - Look in http://www.spies.com/~arcade/TE/. It has PDF versions of the user manual for both these pods. -- Tony At 10:50 AM 10/9/2002 +0000, you wrote: > Does anyone have manuals for these two pods? I have both of them and > they've suddenly gone bad and fail self-test. Both where previously > tested good and were properly stored and never used. But last week I > pulled one out to use it and the self-test showed it bad before it was > even connected to the UUT. Today the same thing happened with another > pod! I was using them on a 9010 mainframe that I got recently and I > wonder if it somehow damaged them. I can't think of any other > explaination. I did verify that they are bad using another > mainframe. Does anyone have any ideas? Anyone have manuals for these? > > joe From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 9 12:13:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum Message-ID: <200210091714.KAA18966@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Ross Archer" > >Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >>>Jim Kearney wrote: >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>I just had an email exchange with someone at Intel's Museum >>>(http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/index.htm) >>> >>> >> >>Jerome Fine replies: >> >>I am not sure why the information is so blatant in its >>stupid attempt to ignore anything but Intel hardware >>as far a anything that even look like a CPU chip, but >>I guess it is an "Intel" museum. >> >>Of course, even now, Intel, in my opinion, is so far >>behind from a technical point of view that is is a sad >>comment just to read about the products that were >>way behind, and still are, the excellence of other >>products. No question that if the Pentium 4 had been >>produced 10 years ago, it would have been a major >>accomplishment. >> >Harsh! :) > >Guess it depends on what you mean by "far behind from a >technical point of view." > >If you mean that x86 is an ugly legacy architecture, with >not nearly enough registers, an instruction set which >doesn't fit any reasonable pipeline, that's ugly to decode >and not particularly orthogonal, that from purely technical >reasons ought to have died a timely death in 1990, >I'd have to agree. > >However, look at the performance. P4 is up near the >top of the tree with the best RISC CPUs, which have >the advantage of clean design and careful evolution. > >It surely takes a great deal of inspiration, creativity, >and engineering talent to take something as ill-suited >as the x86 architecture and get this kind of performance >out of it. IMHO. > >In other words, making x86 fast must be a lot like >getting Dumbo off the air. That ought to count as >some kind of technical achievement. :) ---snip--- It is all done with smoke and mirrors. We do the same here at AMD. The trick is to trade immediate execution for known execution. The x86 code is translated to run on a normal RISC engine. This means that the same tricks on a normal RISC engine would most likely only buy about a couple percent. It would only show up on the initial load of the local cache. Once that is done, there is really little difference. Choices of pipeline depth, out of order execution, multiple execution engines and such are just the fine tuning. Intel, like us is just closer to the fine edge of what the silicon process can do than anything tricky that people like MIPS don't know about. On a separate subject, I was very disappointed in the Intel Museum. I'd thought it might be a good place to research early software or early IC's. They have vary little to offer to someone looking into this level of stuff. Any local library has better references on this kind of stuff ( and that isn't saying much ). Dwight From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Oct 9 12:23:00 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor References: <20021008211657.63106.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <050d01c26fb8$b0456a40$030101ac@boll.casema.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 11:16 PM Subject: Re: Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor > > I used to work in a group at Lucent (in Columbus, OH) that > maintained Suns and NCR 34xx machines. How many MicroChannel > SCSI cards does yours have? Ethernet? > 1 x SCSI, 0 x Ethernet although i may have an IBM one somewhere > /snip > If you want to run multi-processor UNIX (NCR's MP-RAS) on what > are probably P-90 chips, it's a fine little beast. Otherwise, > it's an I/O-heavy desktop machine. A giant PeeCee, really. > Hmm, was afraid of that, more or less ............. I'll propably will salvage usable parts from it and turn to more vintage stuff like Sun or Intergraph stations for projects .......... If somebody is in dire need of a low weight part of this machine ? Let me know (soon! ;-) > > I was told that you could stick in a DOS boot floppy and play > DOOM on one. Never got the chance, though. :-) > Sipke de Wal ----------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----------------------------------------------------- From emu at ecubics.com Wed Oct 9 12:47:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum References: <200210032306.QAA16661@clulw009.amd.com> <1033600983.1877.0.camel@supermicro> <3D9CD62B.959149A2@compsys.to> <043d01c26b3e$5280eac0$1301090a@jkearney.com> <3D9D0A84.FA0154BB@compsys.to> <3D9D2B69.5040503@mindless.com> Message-ID: <3DA46C28.223EF5C1@ecubics.com> Ross Archer wrote: > > It surely takes a great deal of inspiration, creativity, > and engineering talent to take something as ill-suited > as the x86 architecture and get this kind of performance > out of it. IMHO. > > In other words, making x86 fast must be a lot like > getting Dumbo off the air. That ought to count as > some kind of technical achievement. :) Just take a RISC core, translate all your CISC instructions to RISC, and tell your marketing to avoid saying anything about RISC ;-) > Imagine if the same amount of effort was applied > to a sensible machine, like MIPS, Alpha, or ARM! > Or even a 64 bit-wide Z80 :) Oh, intel is trying ;-) To put the same effort in the IA-64. But still doesn't fly. And, as a side note, they probably get itanium earlier to classiccmp than to general market. Cooking for 9 years already ;-) cheers From wonko at 4amlunch.net Wed Oct 9 13:23:00 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: BSD 2.9 In-Reply-To: <20021007040341.74712.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021007040341.74712.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021009182300.GE17336@dende.4amlunch.net> On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 09:03:41PM -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > My recollection is that the primary distro fits on a single RL02; you'll > need a second one for the source archives (to remake the kernel). It > runs in 256K, but that doesn't leave lots of RAM for user processes. > ISTR that I could run rogue, but not dungeon (an older version of > Bob Supnik's FORTRAN port, not 3.2A). this is of course going to be a very limited system, but the memory requirements for 2.9BSD are 192Kbytes of ram. 2.11BSD on the other hand requires 1MB ram and split I&D. big difference there. ;) -brian From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Oct 9 13:36:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > "Electronics" goes back to the late 1920's or early 1930's. I have bound > volumes of every year from the first to about the mid 1980's. For those that do not have these - do not despair. Almost every engineering school library should have a complete (or near) set. My favorites are the issues from the 1960 era - most every ad has some sort of tie to missiles. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Wed Oct 9 13:42:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? Message-ID: <20021009184459.HZFP3118.imf03bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Hi -- Thanks to Don Maslin I'll soon have a set of reload diskettes for my Kaypro 10, and I plan to bring it from home to my shop to do the reload. Is there a "park" or "ship" command I need to run before transporting the unit, so as not to damage the hard drive? TIA -- Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 9 14:00:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: BSD 2.9 In-Reply-To: <20021009182300.GE17336@dende.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: <20021009190145.85302.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 09:03:41PM -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > My recollection is that the primary distro fits on a single RL02... > > this is of course going to be a very limited system, but the memory > requirements for 2.9BSD are 192Kbytes of ram. Limited indeed. As I said, I made it work in 256KB of RAM, but it wasn't enough room to really work. > 2.11BSD on the other hand requires 1MB ram and split I&D. > > big difference there. ;) That's why I stuck with 2.9BSD for so long... my first split I&D machine was a Pro380 ex-VAX Console. I have only recently aquired an 11/53 board from a DEC comm server (with real PDP ROMs installed so as to act as expected). Since I _do_ have megs of Qbus RAM and MSCP controllers, etc., I'll be using 2.11BSD with that. I did solve my RL02 space problem in 1994 - I imaged my real magtapes to disk files on my own SPARC1 (via a MicroVAX w/TU-80) and put up a PDP-11 emulator and got it all running - ISTR it ran at about 30% of the speed of the real hardware - on a 12MHz SPARC! -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 9 14:22:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:51 2005 Subject: specs for Dysam 224/2A alignment disks? In-Reply-To: Joe "specs for Dysam 224/2A alignment disks?" (Oct 9, 8:57) References: <3.0.6.16.20021009085729.48270b18@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10210092025.ZM28086@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 9, 8:57, Joe wrote: > Does anyone know the specs for these disks? Where the cat's eye pattern is located? How many sectors and tracks they have, etc etc? They don't have sectors and tracks in the usual sense. Track 16 (on a 48tpi drive; track 32 on a 96tpi drive) has a cat's-eyes pattern. Track 01 or track 34 (02 or 68 on 96tpi) has an index burst pattern (a burst of signal which is 200 microseconds after the index hole, assuming the speed is correct). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Wed Oct 9 14:56:00 2002 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: Free HP 9920 in Arnhem, The Netherlands. Message-ID: <001701c26fce$0318d3a0$34f8f1c3@cx> Hi all, I would like to get rid of the following HP stuff: 2 ea HP 9920 but one powersupply is defective.Each has a number of memory modules. 2 ea 98203a keyboard 2 ea 98622a GPIO interface 2 ea 98204a video interface 2 ea 98626a rs232c interface 1 82913a monitor 2 ea 9021D dual HPIB floppy unit 2 ea 82906a HPIB printer NO software what so ever. The stuff is located in Arnhem, The Netherlands and not very light. Wim From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Oct 9 14:59:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels Message-ID: <002301c26fce$8389fdc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi all, OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so disks to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled using felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come off without a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these stupid things off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my disks? I've tried WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an upside down airblaster (freeze spray for half the price) and a few other things and nothing works! Anyone want to share their secret? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From archer at topnow.com Wed Oct 9 15:03:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum References: <200210091714.KAA18966@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3DA48BC4.D8B1714E@topnow.com> "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > >From: "Ross Archer" > > > >Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > > >>>Jim Kearney wrote: > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >>>I just had an email exchange with someone at Intel's Museum > >>>(http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/index.htm) > >>> > >>> > >> > >>Jerome Fine replies: > >> > >>I am not sure why the information is so blatant in its > >>stupid attempt to ignore anything but Intel hardware > >>as far a anything that even look like a CPU chip, but > >>I guess it is an "Intel" museum. > >> > >>Of course, even now, Intel, in my opinion, is so far > >>behind from a technical point of view that is is a sad > >>comment just to read about the products that were > >>way behind, and still are, the excellence of other > >>products. No question that if the Pentium 4 had been > >>produced 10 years ago, it would have been a major > >>accomplishment. > >> > >Harsh! :) > > > >Guess it depends on what you mean by "far behind from a > >technical point of view." > > > >If you mean that x86 is an ugly legacy architecture, with > >not nearly enough registers, an instruction set which > >doesn't fit any reasonable pipeline, that's ugly to decode > >and not particularly orthogonal, that from purely technical > >reasons ought to have died a timely death in 1990, > >I'd have to agree. > > > >However, look at the performance. P4 is up near the > >top of the tree with the best RISC CPUs, which have > >the advantage of clean design and careful evolution. > > > >It surely takes a great deal of inspiration, creativity, > >and engineering talent to take something as ill-suited > >as the x86 architecture and get this kind of performance > >out of it. IMHO. > > > >In other words, making x86 fast must be a lot like > >getting Dumbo off the air. That ought to count as > >some kind of technical achievement. :) > > ---snip--- > > It is all done with smoke and mirrors. Anything the results in a net faster CPU isn't, in my book, akin to smoke and mirrors. If anyone's guilty of "smoke and mirrors", it's probably Intel by making a ridiculous long (20-24 stage) pipeline just to allow the wayupcrankinzee of clock rates so they can be first CPU to X Ghz. Why not a 50 stage pipeline that hits 8 Ghz, nevermind the hideous branch-misprediction penalties and exception overhead? > We do the same > here at AMD. The trick is to trade immediate execution > for known execution. The x86 code is translated to run > on a normal RISC engine. Yes, and this in and of itself must be rather tricky, no? X86 instructions are variable-length, far from load/store, have gobs of complexity in protected nonflat mode, etc. I'd bet a significant portion of the Athlon or P4 is devoted just to figuring out how to translate/align/schedule/dispatch such a mess with a RISC core under the hood. :) > This means that the same tricks > on a normal RISC engine would most likely only buy about > a couple percent. It would only show up on the initial > load of the local cache. Once that is done, there is > really little difference. > Choices of pipeline depth, out of order execution, multiple > execution engines and such are just the fine tuning. > Intel, like us is just closer to the fine edge of what > the silicon process can do than anything tricky that > people like MIPS don't know about. Well, why isn't something elegant like Alpha, HP-PA, or MIPS at the top of the performance tree then? (Or are they and I'm just not aware of the latest new products.) My pet theory is that the higher code density of x86 vs. mainline RISC helps utilize the memory subsystem more efficiently, or at least overtaxes it less often. The decoding for RISC is a lot simpler, but if the caching systems can't completely compensate for the higher memory bandwidth requirements, you're stalling more often or limiting the maximum internal CPU speed indirectly due to the mismatch. And decoding on-chip can go much faster than any sort of external memory these days. This isn't really a discussion for classiccmp, but I couldn't resist since I'm sure at least some folks enjoy speculationalism on such topics. :) > > On a separate subject, I was very disappointed in the > Intel Museum. I'd thought it might be a good place to > research early software or early IC's. They have vary > little to offer to someone looking into this level of > stuff. Any local library has better references on this > kind of stuff ( and that isn't saying much ). > Dwight n From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Oct 9 15:07:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels In-Reply-To: <002301c26fce$8389fdc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Here in 'Murka, there is sold a product (usually in hardware and home-supplies type places) called "Goo-Gone". After you get done laughing at what it's called and use it, it is aptly named. IIRC it's mostly benzene and a few other things, but it works wonders on gummy label residue and old, dead masking tape. There are several variations on this product, but Goo-Gone is what I have used successfully in this case. IIRC, there was thread some months back on this exact subject - might be worth a dusty stumble through the Archives... Cheers John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 9 15:12:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: Questions about a HP Apollo 735/125 In-Reply-To: <02100802345701.00810@dh9dat-w> from "Harald Husemann" at Oct 8, 2 02:34:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1486 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021009/6cfa5fa3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 9 15:13:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: What video monitor for SOL-20? In-Reply-To: <3DA322A1.5020104@ntplx.net> from "Ben Bridgwater" at Oct 8, 2 02:23:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 914 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021009/003ffd46/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 9 15:15:19 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021008223312.50df0918@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 8, 2 10:33:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2179 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021009/f9d7e04a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 9 15:17:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: 10 years In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Oct 8, 2 08:59:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 208 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021009/a39eb611/attachment.ksh From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Oct 9 15:18:37 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum In-Reply-To: <3DA48BC4.D8B1714E@topnow.com> Message-ID: On 10/09/02, Ross Archer scribbled: > This isn't really a discussion for classiccmp, but I > couldn't > resist since I'm sure at least some folks enjoy > speculationalism > on such topics. :) > I wouldn't say it's completely off-topic, though. I mean, computers do have processors. And for folks like me, this background info is neat toi learn, and sort of understand... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From cb at mythtech.net Wed Oct 9 15:21:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels Message-ID: > OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so disks >to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled using >felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come off without >a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these stupid things >off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my disks? I've tried >WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an upside down airblaster >(freeze spray for half the price) and a few other things and nothing works! > Anyone want to share their secret? I use a two step method. #1 Avon Skin-So-Soft to remove the label. The oils in it will loosen the glue so you can remove the label without much effort. However, it leaves the glue itself behind, so in a few days when the skin so soft completely dries up, you will be left with a stack of floppies that stick to everything. So I do step #2: While the glue is loose, I use rubbing alcohol to remove the glue residue. Do this AFTER buffing off the excess skin so soft. Once you give it a scrub down with alcohol, the active glue will be removed, leaving you with a nice fresh (and ever so pleasent smelling) floppy disk. Or, if you plan to put a new label on right away, you can skip step #2, and just buff off the excess skin so soft, and apply a new label (however, I have had some problems with that in the past... the skin so soft gets into the plastic, and shortly after you apply the new label, you find it is falling off... that is why I do the two step process, and then leave them for a few days to fully dry). Although I have not had an issue with this... I would be cautious about getting the skin-so-soft onto the actual disk media... it just doesn't strike me as being that good for it (fortunatly, it isn't a very tough thing to control because it does have the consistance of WD40 or light weight machine oil, so it flows, but not so fast that you can't control it). -chris From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Oct 9 15:30:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels In-Reply-To: <002301c26fce$8389fdc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <000201c26fd2$a3762740$90f8b8ce@impac.com> I haven't tried it on disk labels, but Goo Gone works wonders on similar labels on all sorts of other surfaces. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Philip Pemberton Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 1:00 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels Hi all, OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so disks to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled using felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come off without a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these stupid things off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my disks? I've tried WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an upside down airblaster (freeze spray for half the price) and a few other things and nothing works! Anyone want to share their secret? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 9 15:33:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" "[maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels" (Oct 9, 21:00) References: <002301c26fce$8389fdc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10210092136.ZM28165@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 9, 21:00, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Hi all, > OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so disks > to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled using > felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come off without > a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these stupid things > off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my disks? I've tried > WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an upside down airblaster > (freeze spray for half the price) and a few other things and nothing works! > Anyone want to share their secret? Since you're in the UK, I'd suggest one of the aerosol label removers that CPC sell. They're quite effective. What I use, though, is white spirit (as used for cleaning brushes used for oil paint) or sub turps. Several drops on the label (make sure it covers the whole thing) and leave it for an hour or two, then it will probably peel off *slowly*. I've even used this to remove thirty-year old labels from the covers of ex-library books, but for really stubborn labels like that, usually I put on enough to make the label look slighly wet, cover it with a piece of kitchen paper soaked in white spirit (to prevent it all evaporating too quickly) and leave it for 24 hours. Any residue can be removed with kitchen paper or a rag moistened in white spirit, then followed with a dry paper to remove the rest. If it was on something absorbent (like a book cover) let it dry thoroughly for a day or two after that. If the label mostly comes off, but leaves a thin layer of paper, you can probably scrape that off with a fingernail and remove the rest of the goo with sellotape and perseverance. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 9 16:21:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum Message-ID: <200210092122.OAA19155@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Ross Archer" > >"Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: >> >> >From: "Ross Archer" >> > >> >Jerome H. Fine wrote: >> > >> >>>Jim Kearney wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>I just had an email exchange with someone at Intel's Museum >> >>>(http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/index.htm) >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>Jerome Fine replies: >> >> >> >>I am not sure why the information is so blatant in its >> >>stupid attempt to ignore anything but Intel hardware >> >>as far a anything that even look like a CPU chip, but >> >>I guess it is an "Intel" museum. >> >> >> >>Of course, even now, Intel, in my opinion, is so far >> >>behind from a technical point of view that is is a sad >> >>comment just to read about the products that were >> >>way behind, and still are, the excellence of other >> >>products. No question that if the Pentium 4 had been >> >>produced 10 years ago, it would have been a major >> >>accomplishment. >> >> >> >Harsh! :) >> > >> >Guess it depends on what you mean by "far behind from a >> >technical point of view." >> > >> >If you mean that x86 is an ugly legacy architecture, with >> >not nearly enough registers, an instruction set which >> >doesn't fit any reasonable pipeline, that's ugly to decode >> >and not particularly orthogonal, that from purely technical >> >reasons ought to have died a timely death in 1990, >> >I'd have to agree. >> > >> >However, look at the performance. P4 is up near the >> >top of the tree with the best RISC CPUs, which have >> >the advantage of clean design and careful evolution. >> > >> >It surely takes a great deal of inspiration, creativity, >> >and engineering talent to take something as ill-suited >> >as the x86 architecture and get this kind of performance >> >out of it. IMHO. >> > >> >In other words, making x86 fast must be a lot like >> >getting Dumbo off the air. That ought to count as >> >some kind of technical achievement. :) >> >> ---snip--- >> >> It is all done with smoke and mirrors. > >Anything the results in a net faster CPU isn't, in my book, >akin to smoke and mirrors. > >If anyone's guilty of "smoke and mirrors", it's probably >Intel by making a ridiculous long (20-24 stage) pipeline >just to allow the wayupcrankinzee of clock rates so they can >be first CPU to X Ghz. Why not a 50 stage pipeline that hits >8 Ghz, nevermind the hideous branch-misprediction penalties >and exception overhead? > > >> We do the same >> here at AMD. The trick is to trade immediate execution >> for known execution. The x86 code is translated to run >> on a normal RISC engine. > >Yes, and this in and of itself must be rather tricky, no? >X86 instructions are variable-length, far from load/store, >have gobs of complexity in protected nonflat mode, etc. >I'd bet a significant portion of the Athlon or P4 is devoted >just to figuring out how to >translate/align/schedule/dispatch >such a mess with a RISC core under the hood. :) It doesn't take as much as one would think but it is a hit on speed and space. Still, the overall hit is really quite small. > >> This means that the same tricks >> on a normal RISC engine would most likely only buy about >> a couple percent. It would only show up on the initial >> load of the local cache. Once that is done, there is >> really little difference. >> Choices of pipeline depth, out of order execution, multiple >> execution engines and such are just the fine tuning. >> Intel, like us is just closer to the fine edge of what >> the silicon process can do than anything tricky that >> people like MIPS don't know about. > >Well, why isn't something elegant like Alpha, HP-PA, or MIPS >at the top of the performance tree then? (Or are they and >I'm >just not aware of the latest new products.) > >My pet theory is that the higher code density of x86 >vs. mainline RISC helps utilize the memory subsystem >more efficiently, or at least overtaxes it less often. >The decoding for RISC is a lot simpler, but >if the caching systems can't completely compensate for the >higher >memory bandwidth requirements, you're stalling more often or >limiting >the maximum internal CPU speed indirectly due to the >mismatch. >And decoding on-chip can go much faster than any sort of >external >memory these days. This is why the newer processor chips are really a memory chip with some processor attached, rather than a processor with some memory attached. We and Intel are turning into RAM makers. Memory bandwidth is on the increase but it isn't keeping up with chip speed. Still, I don't understand why many are not going to more efficient memory optimization than apparent execution speed. The compiler writers have a ways to go. The day is gone when pinhole optimization buys much. Keeping the process in on chip cache is really the important thing. There isn't an application out there that if one removed the large data array and image bit tables, couldn't completely fit in the caches that are being used today. The compilers just don't write code well enough to keep the size down. It is just that we've gotten into the poor choice of languages and poor connection of software writers to the actual machine code that is run. Just my opinion. Dwight > >This isn't really a discussion for classiccmp, but I >couldn't >resist since I'm sure at least some folks enjoy >speculationalism >on such topics. :) > > >> >> On a separate subject, I was very disappointed in the >> Intel Museum. I'd thought it might be a good place to >> research early software or early IC's. They have vary >> little to offer to someone looking into this level of >> stuff. Any local library has better references on this >> kind of stuff ( and that isn't saying much ). >> Dwight > >n > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 9 16:27:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels Message-ID: <200210092128.OAA19171@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Philip Pemberton" > >Hi all, > OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so disks >to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled using >felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come off without >a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these stupid things >off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my disks? I've tried >WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an upside down airblaster >(freeze spray for half the price) and a few other things and nothing works! > Anyone want to share their secret? GooGone Dwight From jss at subatomix.com Wed Oct 9 17:13:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021008223312.50df0918@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021008223312.50df0918@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20537783.20021009171016@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, Joe wrote: > I only found it by shear accident. ^^^^^ That's gotta be a long story... I hope you weren't hurt! -- Jeffrey Sharp From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 9 17:15:08 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels In-Reply-To: <002301c26fce$8389fdc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021009181817.4d7f7e5a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:00 PM 10/9/02 +0100, you wrote: >Hi all, > OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so disks >to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled using >felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come off without >a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these stupid things >off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my disks? I've tried >WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an upside down airblaster >(freeze spray for half the price) and a few other things and nothing works! > Anyone want to share their secret? Sheesh, I have trouble getting them to stay on! There's nothing worse than opening a big box of old disks and having all the labels laying in the bottom of the box! You might try Goo-Gone or one of the other solvents made from orange oil. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 9 17:15:25 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: HP 9915 Re: Free HP 9920 in Arnhem, The Netherlands. In-Reply-To: <001701c26fce$0318d3a0$34f8f1c3@cx> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021009181200.473f6e72@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:56 PM 10/9/02 +0200, "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote: >Hi all, >I would like to get rid of the following HP stuff: >2 ea HP 9920 but one powersupply is defective.Each has a number of memory >modules. >2 ea 98203a keyboard >2 ea 98622a GPIO interface >2 ea 98204a video interface >2 ea 98626a rs232c interface The following items will work with the HP 9915. Any of the items can be used on any HP 9000 series 200 computer (9826, 9836, 9816, 9000 217, etc) >1 82913a monitor >2 ea 9021D dual HPIB floppy unit (I think this is supposed to be "9121D" >2 ea 82906a HPIB printer Joe >NO software what so ever. > >The stuff is located in Arnhem, The Netherlands and not very light. > >Wim > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 9 17:16:13 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: specs for Dysam 224/2A alignment disks? In-Reply-To: <10210092025.ZM28086@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021009085729.48270b18@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021009180609.473f73b2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks Pete. Joe At 07:25 PM 10/9/02 GMT, you wrote: >On Oct 9, 8:57, Joe wrote: >> Does anyone know the specs for these disks? Where the cat's eye pattern >is located? How many sectors and tracks they have, etc etc? > >They don't have sectors and tracks in the usual sense. Track 16 (on a >48tpi drive; track 32 on a 96tpi drive) has a cat's-eyes pattern. Track 01 >or track 34 (02 or 68 on 96tpi) has an index burst pattern (a burst of >signal which is 200 microseconds after the index hole, assuming the speed >is correct). > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From donm at cts.com Wed Oct 9 17:35:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? In-Reply-To: <20021009184459.HZFP3118.imf03bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Hi -- > > Thanks to Don Maslin I'll soon have a set of reload diskettes for my Kaypro > 10, and I plan to bring it from home to my shop to do the reload. > > Is there a "park" or "ship" command I need to run before transporting the > unit, so as not to damage the hard drive? IIRC, it is built into the operating system and when the HD LED goes out, the heads have been parked. - don > TIA -- > > Glen > 0/0 > > If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? > And if not now, when? > -- Pirkei Avot > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 9 17:46:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <20537783.20021009171016@subatomix.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021008223312.50df0918@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021008223312.50df0918@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021009185007.115f4964@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:10 PM 10/9/02 -0500, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, Joe wrote: >> I only found it by shear accident. > ^^^^^ > >That's gotta be a long story... I hope you weren't hurt! No pain, no gain! :-) Joe > >-- > > > From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Oct 9 17:56:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum In-Reply-To: "Dwight K. Elvey"'s message of "Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:22:21 -0700 (PDT)" References: <200210092122.OAA19155@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <200210092234.g99MYwNq053460@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > Still, I don't understand why many are not going to more > efficient memory optimization than apparent execution speed. > The compiler writers have a ways to go. The day is gone > when pinhole optimization buys much. Keeping the process > in on chip cache is really the important thing. As someone who writes code that goes through compilers, the reason why I don't think too hard about the on-chip cache is because I have no idea about the size or architecture of that on-chip cache. Well, I have some idea, and that's that I can't count on it. OK, so the products I work on are sold as portable C source that is expected to build and run on a bunch of different processors, some of which don't have any cache but may be clocked slow enough for SRAM to keep up. I may not be the programmer you have in mind. So, let's take instead the case of someone writing code to run on Win32. Reading the side of a box for something newish like that, we could narrow it a bit further, to Win98, WinME, and Win2000 (hmm, maybe that's why this thing was in the closeouts pile, no WinXP). That could be running on anything made in the last four years, and what have x86 processor manufacturers done with on-chip caches in that time? Overall I suspect it's an upward trend but I'm thinking there were some local downturns for things like the early Celerons to keep them from competing too effectively with Pentium IIs, but as mentioned above I haven't really been paying attention. I am thinking that the programmer will probably not know even if he does want to think about writing code to fit in on-chip cache, and he's the compiler vendor's customer. How is the compiler vendor supposed to have any idea what the eventual target's on-chip cache will be like? -Frank McConnell From allain at panix.com Wed Oct 9 19:23:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: Free IBM System 36 in NJ References: <200210091714.KAA18966@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <00b701c26ff3$55eb1140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Hi, I just got rights to rescue this system from eBay. It's free from me to anybody on the list that wants it. Location: Tom's River, New Jersey. Here's a photo and the owner's text on it: http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_d301df278bf43e4bc14959f67e012316/i- 1.JPG (Pictured: System unit, HIC tape drive, IBM terminal, desktop printer) "Working IBM System 36 computer. The system was in every day use until August of 2002. CPU is the Model 5362, known as the Baby 36; Memory = 256K; Disk Space = 90 M-Bytes; Terminal = I/O Model 2576 with a parallel port for printer attachment; External Tape Drive; Printer = Epson LQ-2550 Wide Carriage equipped with a Twin Ax connector for use with this system. It is loaded with a fully operational operating system - SSP Software: DFU, SDA, RPGII. The CPU is the size of a two drawer file cabinet." John A. From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Oct 9 19:37:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: Free IBM System 36 in NJ References: <200210091714.KAA18966@clulw009.amd.com> <00b701c26ff3$55eb1140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <018701c26ff5$3fdcf0b0$ec010240@oemcomputer> I could not get the url to work? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:24 PM Subject: Free IBM System 36 in NJ > Hi, > > I just got rights to rescue this system from eBay. > It's free from me to anybody on the list that wants it. > Location: Tom's River, New Jersey. > Here's a photo and the owner's text on it: > > > http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_d301df278bf43e4bc14959f67e012316/i- > 1.JPG > (Pictured: System unit, HIC tape drive, IBM terminal, > desktop printer) > > "Working IBM System 36 computer. The system was in every > day use until August of 2002. > CPU is the Model 5362, known as the Baby 36; > Memory = 256K; > Disk Space = 90 M-Bytes; > Terminal = I/O Model 2576 > with a parallel port for printer attachment; > External Tape Drive; > Printer = Epson LQ-2550 Wide Carriage > equipped with a Twin Ax connector for use with this system. > > It is loaded with a fully operational operating system - > SSP Software: DFU, SDA, RPGII. The CPU is the size of a > two drawer file cabinet." > > John A. > > From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Oct 9 19:59:12 2002 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: References: <200210021806540535.A39850CC@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021009205248.00a48950@66.67.226.217> Well, I happen to have a 5.25" Hull height Seagate 10gig SCSI drive available. It powers, never fully tested it though. Hildebrand was going to take it but it fell through. I also have a 1gig IBM and I think one or two 2gig drives (Maxtor? and Seagates). Anyone need one or specs? Seagate seems to like me lately. Going for shipping only. john_boffemmyer_iv@boff-net.dhs.org BTW: nice to see that Sridhar is still with us. =) -John At 12:18 AM 10/9/02, you wrote: >On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Bruce Lane wrote: > > > Actually, that's a 2.2 gig drive. The 12400N is an early Hawk series, > > very popular with the Sun 'lunchbox' systems. > >As a matter of fact, I'd like to find one of these for my Sparc LX. It >came without a drive (removed because the place that owned it was >paranoid). > >-Toth ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From archer at topnow.com Wed Oct 9 20:14:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum References: <200210092122.OAA19155@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3DA4D4B7.D06767DC@topnow.com> "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > >From: "Ross Archer" > > > >"Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > >> > >> >From: "Ross Archer" > >> > > >> >Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >> > > >> >>>Jim Kearney wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>>I just had an email exchange with someone at Intel's Museum > >> >>>(http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/index.htm) > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>Jerome Fine replies: > >> >> > >> >>I am not sure why the information is so blatant in its > >> >>stupid attempt to ignore anything but Intel hardware > >> >>as far a anything that even look like a CPU chip, but > >> >>I guess it is an "Intel" museum. > >> >> > >> >>Of course, even now, Intel, in my opinion, is so far > >> >>behind from a technical point of view that is is a sad > >> >>comment just to read about the products that were > >> >>way behind, and still are, the excellence of other > >> >>products. No question that if the Pentium 4 had been > >> >>produced 10 years ago, it would have been a major > >> >>accomplishment. > >> >> > >> >Harsh! :) > >> > > >> >Guess it depends on what you mean by "far behind from a > >> >technical point of view." > >> > > >> >If you mean that x86 is an ugly legacy architecture, with > >> >not nearly enough registers, an instruction set which > >> >doesn't fit any reasonable pipeline, that's ugly to decode > >> >and not particularly orthogonal, that from purely technical > >> >reasons ought to have died a timely death in 1990, > >> >I'd have to agree. > >> > > >> >However, look at the performance. P4 is up near the > >> >top of the tree with the best RISC CPUs, which have > >> >the advantage of clean design and careful evolution. > >> > > >> >It surely takes a great deal of inspiration, creativity, > >> >and engineering talent to take something as ill-suited > >> >as the x86 architecture and get this kind of performance > >> >out of it. IMHO. > >> > > >> >In other words, making x86 fast must be a lot like > >> >getting Dumbo off the air. That ought to count as > >> >some kind of technical achievement. :) > >> > >> ---snip--- > >> > >> It is all done with smoke and mirrors. > > > >Anything the results in a net faster CPU isn't, in my book, > >akin to smoke and mirrors. > > > >If anyone's guilty of "smoke and mirrors", it's probably > >Intel by making a ridiculous long (20-24 stage) pipeline > >just to allow the wayupcrankinzee of clock rates so they can > >be first CPU to X Ghz. Why not a 50 stage pipeline that hits > >8 Ghz, nevermind the hideous branch-misprediction penalties > >and exception overhead? > > > > > >> We do the same > >> here at AMD. The trick is to trade immediate execution > >> for known execution. The x86 code is translated to run > >> on a normal RISC engine. > > > >Yes, and this in and of itself must be rather tricky, no? > >X86 instructions are variable-length, far from load/store, > >have gobs of complexity in protected nonflat mode, etc. > >I'd bet a significant portion of the Athlon or P4 is devoted > >just to figuring out how to > >translate/align/schedule/dispatch > >such a mess with a RISC core under the hood. :) > > It doesn't take as much as one would think but it is a hit > on speed and space. Still, the overall hit is really quite > small. Based on what you're saying, it follows that a multi-level instruction-set implementation (lower level microarchitecture plus higher level user-visible architecture) is not only feasible, but might even be superior in some cases to a one-level implementation tuned either for CPU speed or compiler convenience. What follows is that the user-level instruction set ought to be organized for compiler code generation efficiency (less code, fewer instructions, less semantic gap between compiler and compiler-visible CPU to make optimizations more obvious, etc.) The microarchitecture is then designed to keep the execution units and pipelines as busy as possible without regard to semantic gap from the outside world. The hybrid might eventually surpass the best purely RISC or CISC approaches simply because there are two optimization points: at the compiler/assembler and at the internal hardware. > > > > >> This means that the same tricks > >> on a normal RISC engine would most likely only buy about > >> a couple percent. It would only show up on the initial > >> load of the local cache. Once that is done, there is > >> really little difference. > >> Choices of pipeline depth, out of order execution, multiple > >> execution engines and such are just the fine tuning. > >> Intel, like us is just closer to the fine edge of what > >> the silicon process can do than anything tricky that > >> people like MIPS don't know about. > > > >Well, why isn't something elegant like Alpha, HP-PA, or MIPS > >at the top of the performance tree then? (Or are they and > >I'm > >just not aware of the latest new products.) > > > >My pet theory is that the higher code density of x86 > >vs. mainline RISC helps utilize the memory subsystem > >more efficiently, or at least overtaxes it less often. > >The decoding for RISC is a lot simpler, but > >if the caching systems can't completely compensate for the > >higher > >memory bandwidth requirements, you're stalling more often or > >limiting > >the maximum internal CPU speed indirectly due to the > >mismatch. > >And decoding on-chip can go much faster than any sort of > >external > >memory these days. > > This is why the newer processor chips are really a memory > chip with some processor attached, rather than a processor > with some memory attached. We and Intel are turning into > RAM makers. Memory bandwidth is on the increase but it > isn't keeping up with chip speed. And unless you go with 1024+ bit wide SDRAM buses or such, it's hard to see how you could have the external memory keep up. The "happy" (well, carefree) days of 1000 nS instruction cycles are long gone. :) > Still, I don't understand why many are not going to more > efficient memory optimization than apparent execution speed. > The compiler writers have a ways to go. > The day is gone > when pinhole optimization buys much. For RISC targets, the semantic gap between an HLL statement in "C", for example, and the target code is wider. Intuitively anyways, this means more instructions are output and fewer optimizations are found for a given level of effort in the code generation logic. And since it's an "all things being equal" deal, you can bet the optimization will be better with a friendly target. Peephole optimization would be particularly difficult where there is basically only one way to do something in the target. Perversely, all this argues for a RISC engine optimized for internal speed and a CISC engine optimized to be compiler-friendly, or in other words, "Q: Which technology is better: RISC or CISC? A: Both are better than either." :) At last, a possible explanation for why x86, which is so ugly from a performance-theory point of view, really does work so well in practice? > Keeping the process > in on chip cache is really the important thing. There isn't > an application out there that if one removed the large data > array and image bit tables, couldn't completely fit in the > caches that are being used today. The problem is cache is generally implemented as "n" parallel direct-mapped caches (n-way) rather than truly associative, because associative memory is impossibly complex and expensive for any decent size. So if you have a 2-way cache, that means you can only have two data items in the cache whose index happens to hash to the same cache slot, regardless of how big your cache is. For an "n" way cache, all you need is "n+1" frequently-used data items that map to the same cache index, and musical chairs tosses out vital data on every load. :( A compiler/linker would not only have to know what data was dynamically most frequently used at any given time, but also the method by which the item's address maps it to a cache index, and how many cache-ways there are, to prevent ugly *stuff* like this from happening by locating data so frequently-used data is always paired in the other ways with infrequently-used data. One thing a compiler *could* do is set a "hint" bit in the load and store instructions (provided the CPU provides a bit in load/store for this purpose). when the code generator thinks the data just loaded/stored will be used again especially often in the *near* future. The CPU could let that bit stay set for say one million CPU cycles before clearing it, and try its damndest not to toss out a data item with this bit set if there's an alternative in the other n-1 ways that has no such bit set. That might help quite a bit. Actual implementation would undoubtedly be very different (timestamp?) but the idea is to "hint" the CPU to make a better choice of who to toss into the street vs. keep in the shelter. :) > The compilers just don't > write code well enough to keep the size down. It is just > that we've gotten into the poor choice of languages and poor > connection of software writers to the actual machine code > that is run. I'd have to agree with the poor connection and code size parts. I think it's a bit unfair to blame the high-level languages for this problem though. It seems to me that the code generation phase is where things are broken. And since most compilers have a lexical view of the world rather than a run-time view of the world, it is also kind of difficult to predict what needs to be optimized without some fancy simulation technology that AFAIK isn't used as a rule as part of code generation, but perhaps should be. :) > Just my opinion. > Dwight > Some great things I've learned so far. It's safe to say I already think of things quite differently than I did just yesterday. -- Ross > > > >This isn't really a discussion for classiccmp, but I > >couldn't > >resist since I'm sure at least some folks enjoy > >speculationalism > >on such topics. :) > > > > > >> > >> On a separate subject, I was very disappointed in the > >> Intel Museum. I'd thought it might be a good place to > >> research early software or early IC's. They have vary > >> little to offer to someone looking into this level of > >> stuff. Any local library has better references on this > >> kind of stuff ( and that isn't saying much ). > >> Dwight Yup. Even corporate boosterism shouldn't blind one from a graceful acknowledgement of the contributions of others. :| -- Ross > > > >n > > From benb at Basit.COM Wed Oct 9 20:15:07 2002 From: benb at Basit.COM (Benedict Bridgewater) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: What video monitor for SOL-20? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200210100116.g9A1G8H06913@misrad.basit.com> >> Second, I'm planning to use my PC sound card to record/playback in lieu >> of a tape recorder (more reliable, less hassle), and wonder if anyone >> has done the same with any success? > >Just use the serial port... It's more reliable. What I'd really like to do would be to modify SOLOS to support redirection of tape output byte stream to the serial port, and then write some software for my PC (i.e. the other end of the serial cable) that read/wrote the corresponding files to disk. Too many projects, not enough time... From apple at cmc.net Wed Oct 9 20:22:00 2002 From: apple at cmc.net (Jack Noble) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels References: <002301c26fce$8389fdc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <01c401c26ffb$8375b900$3b0fbbd0@oemcomputer> I have had good luck using a hair dryer to heat up the label enough to make the adhesive gummy again. Not sure how "young" the label needs to be for this to work. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 1:00 PM Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels > Hi all, > OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so disks > to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled using > felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come off without > a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these stupid things > off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my disks? I've tried > WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an upside down airblaster > (freeze spray for half the price) and a few other things and nothing works! > Anyone want to share their secret? > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Oct 9 20:29:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: Free IBM System 36 in NJ In-Reply-To: <018701c26ff5$3fdcf0b0$ec010240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <000001c26ffc$a7beb450$6e7ba8c0@piii933> The actual auction is at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2059083205 To make John's link work you need to add the "1.jpg" (or whatever) that got clipped back on to the end of the line. Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Keys Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:38 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Free IBM System 36 in NJ I could not get the url to work? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:24 PM Subject: Free IBM System 36 in NJ > Hi, > > I just got rights to rescue this system from eBay. > It's free from me to anybody on the list that wants it. > Location: Tom's River, New Jersey. > Here's a photo and the owner's text on it: > > > http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_d301df278bf43e4bc14959f67e01231 6/i- > 1.JPG > (Pictured: System unit, HIC tape drive, IBM terminal, > desktop printer) > > "Working IBM System 36 computer. The system was in every > day use until August of 2002. > CPU is the Model 5362, known as the Baby 36; > Memory = 256K; > Disk Space = 90 M-Bytes; > Terminal = I/O Model 2576 > with a parallel port for printer attachment; > External Tape Drive; > Printer = Epson LQ-2550 Wide Carriage > equipped with a Twin Ax connector for use with this system. > > It is loaded with a fully operational operating system - > SSP Software: DFU, SDA, RPGII. The CPU is the size of a > two drawer file cabinet." > > John A. > > From benb at Basit.COM Wed Oct 9 20:31:07 2002 From: benb at Basit.COM (Benedict Bridgewater) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: SOL-20 keyboard In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021008204706.02207a00@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <200210100132.g9A1WKH06918@misrad.basit.com> >Here's where I get to plug my web site: > http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html > >You may want to seek out the section on repairing the keyboard. > Thanks, Jim. Googling for SOL-20 already turned up your site pretty prominently, and I today bought a bunch of Sun 4 keyboards for $1/ea off eBay to savage for the pads! Hopefully they've still got some life in them ... From benb at Basit.COM Wed Oct 9 20:45:12 2002 From: benb at Basit.COM (Benedict Bridgewater) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: SOL tapes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021008222342.02205020@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <200210100146.g9A1kMH06923@misrad.basit.com> >An interesting experiment would be to convert some of the .ENT format >program files from my web site and use one of the programs here: > > http://www.alphalink.com.au/~edsa/ > >to convert it to a .WAV file. I haven't tried it myself, but it should >work pretty well. I've tried Ed's program to decode a .WAV file back to >binary, but it hasn't worked at all on real recordings. It works fine on >the .WAV files that Ed's programs generate, though. > I'll definitely check this out. I hopefully have some SOL tapes (content unknown) on their way to me, so I'll also bear this in mind as an approach to try reading them if for some reason my tape interface doesn't work. From benb at Basit.COM Wed Oct 9 20:52:07 2002 From: benb at Basit.COM (Benedict Bridgewater) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:52 2005 Subject: What video monitor for SOL-20? In-Reply-To: <20021009030954.5307.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200210100153.g9A1ruH06927@misrad.basit.com> >I'm almost certain that the video is standard, plain >old NTSC RS-170, which you could probably hook up to >any modern TV having a video input with a simple >mechanical adapter. Much as it makes me ill to mention >this, but Radio SH**, which has gotten enormously >worse in just the last 3 months, probably will have an >adapter to a more modern RCA for it. You MIGHT be able >able to get a decent display from an RF modulator but >at 64 characters by 16, it would be close. Nah - can't do that! I still have vivid memories of how my NASCOM-1 TV display jiggled up and down back in '78! This time I'm splurging on an eBay composite monitor, and Jim Battle kindly clued me in where to get an appropriate PL259 to RCA adaptor for my SOL-20. I'll admit though that I do use Radio Shack when gotta-have-it-now overcomes me. From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Oct 9 21:40:00 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Software for Orion Unilab II?? Message-ID: Hello all, As part of a recent eBay win, I acquired an Orion Instruments Unilab II. I have cables/software for the Rockwell 65/11EAB, and am looking for cables/software for any other processor, especially the 1802, Z-80, 8080, 8088. If anyone has software available, and cabling diagrams, please let me know! I have complete docs available, as well as the software for the 65/11EAB... I'd also be willing to write out a cable diagram for the 65/11EAB. Thanks! Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 9 21:50:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <20021007182152.GA10627@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 01:23:36PM -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: > > But which type of scope should be used for Vintage Compters is easy. > > > > A vintage scope of the correct era for the machine when it was > > manufactured, of course! > > Mine is a Tekronix RM-503. I also have an old RCA scope, plus a Kenwood > Service Monitor scope (SM-220) that can handle 1KW of RF at up to 150 > Mhz. Is a RM-503 anything like a RM-561A? Someone gave me a 561A a number of years ago, but it is still in need of a power switch. The switch is integrated into the brightness control, and doesn't seem to be a standard part. One of the more unusual things I noticed about the Tektronix scopes of this vintage is that nearly all the components are connected via solder joints bonded to silver plated notches in ceramic strips. It sure beats the tag strips often found in other bits of vintage electronics gear... -Toth From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Oct 9 22:18:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: A quandry.... In-Reply-To: <00b701c26ff3$55eb1140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: I'm in the process of OCR'ing a full set of the Staunch 8/89'er newsletters for addition to the Commercial CP/M Archive. My problem is that while HTML renderings of the newsletters is acceptable, the PDF version that ABBYY FineReader generates is spectacular. Do you folks think I should produce them as PDF, HTML or both? Thanks. g. http://www.retroarchive.org From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Oct 9 22:20:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels Message-ID: <200210100321.XAA62916357@shell.TheWorld.com> > Anyone want to share their secret? a piece of dry ice? My father used it to freeze the adhesive for the linoleum floor in our kitchen, and the old squares came right up... maybe it will work better than the cold from the air can... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From vaxman at earthlink.net Wed Oct 9 23:40:01 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Foo, Bar, Bletch... Message-ID: Anybody here know Steve Harris? Claims to have designed the first Commodore disk drive (1541?) From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Oct 10 01:13:14 2002 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <20021007182152.GA10627@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: On 07-Oct-2002 Christopher McNabb wrote: > On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 01:23:36PM -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: >> But which type of scope should be used for Vintage Compters is easy. >> >> A vintage scope of the correct era for the machine when it was >> manufactured, of course! >> > > Mine is a Tekronix RM-503. I also have an old RCA scope, plus a Kenwood > Service Monitor scope (SM-220) that can handle 1KW of RF at up to 150 > Mhz. I have a 100Kc (kilo-cycle) Heathkit 'scope. http://pied.nu/leolo-cam/snap-unknown-20011127-213918-1.jpeg (I should get a better picture up some day) -Philip From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 10 02:06:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Foo, Bar, Bletch... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021010070737.74208.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > Anybody here know Steve Harris? Nope. > Claims to have designed the first Commodore disk drive (1541?) Well... the first Commodore disk drive would likely be the 2040. The first Commodore-*64* disk drive would be the 1540 (from the VIC-20, but more-or-less compatible with the U+/U- commands). The 1541 didn't come out until after the C-64 was in production. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Oct 10 04:59:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific's Rescued...need help/info! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > A challenger C1P and > >Plastic or metal case? > I think metal, but I haven't examined it thoroughly yet > though..what's the difference (besides the materials used)? If it's brown/tan, it's metal, the plastic case is white, you would know right away. The plastic case was made pretty close to the end of the line for OSI. Not actually distributed until after they were bought by MA/COM. The plastic case was an effort to compete with the Apple II. A plastic case C1P should have a later rev 600 board in it. Some of the later revs included built in 32 column support, color support and software adjustment of the serial signal rate (for the rs-232 and tape interfaces). > > > A Challenger II (which was a MUCH bigger box, and had a matching big, > > > heavy dual 8" floppy cabinet). > >Blue/black or tan/brown? > tan/brown > > What's the difference? Blue/black was the earlier color scheme for OSI so, in a blue/black machine, you would expect to find earlier board revs. The C2-4P was the only machine that stayed blue/black for its entire life (as far as I know anyway... I never seen or heard anyone mention a tan/brown C2-4P). > > > these), and a dual 5 1/4" floppy cabinet (don't know which system > > > this goes to). > >I would like to see a picture of this. It's probably not OSI. I'd really like to see (or at least get a more detailed description of) this dual 5 1/4" cabinet. If it has an OSI tag on it, what it says, what color is it, etc. > > > Any pointers to documentation, software, specifications, etc?? > >I have lot's of docs, etc. for OSI. OSI is the principle focus > >of my collection. > Do you have any of these docs online? I'd love to see some specs and > some docs for these systems as I start playing with 'em. I have a late rev 600 board schematic on line at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze25qnw/ Interestingly, the page no longer shows up on a google search. It's my intention, when I get some free time (like maybe when my kids go off to college and I retire), to put up an elaborate OSI museum online. > The C1P has a ribbon cable coming out of the side of the top, that > looks like it's intended to hook into some other board..any idea what > this might be for? > (it comes out of the right side of the keyboard). It could really be just about anything! C1Ps are almost always hacked. I don't quite understand your description of where it comes out. If it is a wide cable, around 30 pins (memory fails at the moment and I can't go digging for the docs right now, I would wake up the kids and get in trouble) and it comes out of the back of the unit, then it's probably a floppy cable to go to the 5 1/4" drives. If it is 12 or so pins and comes out next to the keyboard, then it might well be a cable to go to the optional num pad that OSI made. Bill From roosmcd at dds.nl Thu Oct 10 05:02:01 2002 From: roosmcd at dds.nl (roosmcd@dds.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <20021009170001.76201.69415.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021009170001.76201.69415.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1034243815.3da54ee714cfd@webmail.dds.nl> > > I also have a HP 9915A in my possesion. Useless without keyboard and I also > >have only documentation for the HP-85. > > Maybe I should back up. You do know that the 9915 will read HP-85 tapes > and run the HP-85 programs don't you? The HP-85 is inteneded to be the > developement system for the 9915. Yes, but I also don't have a HP-85 and when I had a HP-85 I could run programs on that instead of the 9915 :). But it's not really an important matter; I just would like to use the 9915 sometime. > > This sounds like they are absolute unobtainium today? I'd better start > looking > >for a HP-85, only they seem to want quite some money when I see them on > >eBay :). > > Are you kidding? I've seen plenty of them go cheap. But you should really > look for a lot better machine like the 87XM. They have a lot more memory and > have a number of ROMs built-in. Take a look at . It > has some comparisions of the various models. Unobtainium was related to the development kit for eproms. As for HP-85's, I'm located in Europe and haven't seen them much around here. Last one I remember was on eBay.de and it went for quite some money (over EUR 100,-?), but I haven't really looked that hard. I know there's a friend looking for a cheap one for couple of years and I don't think he has already found one. But I got offered one by e-mail, so maybe I'll have one soon :). There's also an industrial surplus site that sometimes has them, but the last time I when they had one, it was already reserved for someone else. They did have some other nice industrial computers. greetings, Michiel From dan at ekoan.com Thu Oct 10 05:31:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Comments on Qualstar 3412S tape drive? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20021008223312.50df0918@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021010064117.034db880@enigma> Hello, I have the opportunity to buy a Qualstar magnetic tape transport model 3412S and was wondering if anyone had any experience with this drive in terms of reliability, serviceability, etc. Thanks! Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From jrice54 at charter.net Thu Oct 10 06:21:21 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: A quandry.... References: Message-ID: <3DA5639E.6070304@charter.net> Actually, I prefer pdf format. I tend to store documentation on CD's and print if necessary. The pdf format is much easier to print and handle, no editing of links, etc. Just my opinion, James Gene Buckle wrote: >I'm in the process of OCR'ing a full set of the Staunch 8/89'er >newsletters for addition to the Commercial CP/M Archive. > >My problem is that while HTML renderings of the newsletters is acceptable, >the PDF version that ABBYY FineReader generates is spectacular. > >Do you folks think I should produce them as PDF, HTML or both? > >Thanks. > >g. >http://www.retroarchive.org > > > > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Oct 10 08:50:01 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021009205248.00a48950@66.67.226.217> Message-ID: On 10/09/02, John Boffemmyer IV scribbled: > Well, I happen to have a 5.25" Hull height Seagate 10gig SCSI drive > available. It powers, never fully tested it though. Hildebrand was going to > take it but it fell through. I also have a 1gig IBM and I think one or two > 2gig drives (Maxtor? and Seagates). Anyone need one or specs? Seagate seems > to like me lately. Going for shipping only. > john_boffemmyer_iv@boff-net.dhs.org > BTW: nice to see that Sridhar is still with us. =) > -John John - Aybody take them yet? If not, I will take them all... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 10 08:53:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: What video monitor for SOL-20? In-Reply-To: <3DA322A1.5020104@ntplx.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Ben Bridgwater wrote: > Second, I'm planning to use my PC sound card to record/playback in lieu > of a tape recorder (more reliable, less hassle), and wonder if anyone > has done the same with any success? It can be done without problems. An exhibitor at the VCF has used a CD player (with a CD burned with cassette audio files) in the past in lieu of a tape drive. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Oct 10 08:54:39 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web Message-ID: Just curious... did anybody else watch the History Channel last night, 7:00PM Eastern Time. The Modern Marvels episode was about the creation of the internet. Rather fascinating to me (who learned some things), and kinda neat to put faces to names... Not to mention the pictures of the old, err, classic computers and terminals... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Oct 10 09:09:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: A quandry.... In-Reply-To: <3DA5639E.6070304@charter.net> Message-ID: Thanks James. g. On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, James Rice wrote: > Actually, I prefer pdf format. I tend to store documentation on CD's > and print if necessary. The pdf format is much easier to print and > handle, no editing of links, etc. > > Just my opinion, > > James > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > >I'm in the process of OCR'ing a full set of the Staunch 8/89'er > >newsletters for addition to the Commercial CP/M Archive. > > > >My problem is that while HTML renderings of the newsletters is acceptable, > >the PDF version that ABBYY FineReader generates is spectacular. > > > >Do you folks think I should produce them as PDF, HTML or both? > > > >Thanks. > > > >g. > >http://www.retroarchive.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html > > > > From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Oct 10 10:48:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: New acquisition, and question Message-ID: <200210101549.LAA65900465@shell.TheWorld.com> Just today I got ahold of: A front panel (just the silk-screened plastic) for a pdp-8/m A front panel (silk-screened plastic) for a pdp-12 a pdp-8/e backplane an asr-33 a pdp-8 of some sort in a 10.5" chassis. The reason I'm not sure which one it is is because the silk-screened front panel had been removed and replaced with a white-colored panel by an organization from which the prior owner had obtained the machine. It has the paddle-type switches like I've seen on pdp-8/e,f,m, but the address/data lights like on a pdp-8/i,l. Any thoughts, anyone? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Oct 10 10:50:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: A quandry.... In-Reply-To: References: <00b701c26ff3$55eb1140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >I'm in the process of OCR'ing a full set of the Staunch 8/89'er >newsletters for addition to the Commercial CP/M Archive. > >My problem is that while HTML renderings of the newsletters is acceptable, >the PDF version that ABBYY FineReader generates is spectacular. > >Do you folks think I should produce them as PDF, HTML or both? Personally, I prefer PDF, as you can reproduce near original copies. Also, that way you don't have to worry about OCR errors. Unless of course you're OCR'ing, and then sending to PDF (which is a bad idea in my opinion, unless the PDF also includes the non-OCR'd version). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Oct 10 10:52:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web References: Message-ID: <3DA5A2E5.6020201@tiac.net> This show had the most footage of Imlac's I've ever seen. A really great program! David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > Just curious... did anybody else watch the History Channel last >night, 7:00PM Eastern Time. The Modern Marvels episode was about the >creation of the internet. Rather fascinating to me (who learned some >things), and kinda neat to put faces to names... > Not to mention the pictures of the old, err, classic computers and >terminals... > From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Oct 10 11:03:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <3DA5A2E5.6020201@tiac.net> Message-ID: On 10/10/02, Bob Shannon scribbled: > This show had the most footage of Imlac's I've ever seen. A really > great program! > > Yeah, even my wife enjoyed it! So, the IMPs they built would be the first network interface, right? The precurser to the present-day NIC. I wonder if any of those are still around... Or if they're even used once in a while... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Oct 10 11:11:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <3DA5A2E5.6020201@tiac.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021010110541.01a8cd10@ubanproductions.com> At 11:55 AM 10/10/2002 -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: >This show had the most footage of Imlac's I've ever seen. A really great >program! There was actual footage of Imlacs? I would really like to see that... What did it show? Any chance someone recorded this and I can get a copy of the section on Imlacs? I checked the History Channel web page for show times and it did not list and future showings of this episode. --tom >David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > >> Just curious... did anybody else watch the History Channel last >>night, 7:00PM Eastern Time. The Modern Marvels episode was about the >>creation of the internet. Rather fascinating to me (who learned some >>things), and kinda neat to put faces to names... >> Not to mention the pictures of the old, err, classic computers and >>terminals... > > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Oct 10 11:32:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? Message-ID: I seem to remember that self-parking heads generally were not available on the 10MB drives of Kaypro 10 vintage, so I did a little Googling and came up with the following (http://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n12/8_The_Kaypro_10_more_than_.php ) from CREATIVE COMPUTING VOL. 9, NO. 12 / DECEMBER 1983: "A very important command is included in the Kaypro 10 system software. SAFETY moves the read/write heads on the hard disk to the safe landing zone on the disk. This must be done before turning the power off or the surface of the hard disk may be damaged. The SAFETY command is invoked from the command mode in CP/M." Bob -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:37 PM To: classiccmp Subject: Re: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Hi -- > > Thanks to Don Maslin I'll soon have a set of reload diskettes for my Kaypro > 10, and I plan to bring it from home to my shop to do the reload. > > Is there a "park" or "ship" command I need to run before transporting the > unit, so as not to damage the hard drive? IIRC, it is built into the operating system and when the HD LED goes out, the heads have been parked. - don > TIA -- > > Glen > 0/0 From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 10 11:48:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC94@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > Yeah, even my wife enjoyed it! Sadly, we don't get it in Europe... *sigh* Anyone got a taped copy? > So, the IMPs they built would be the first network interface, > right? The precurser to the present-day NIC. Well, no.. IMP's connected a local(-ish) network to the remote (-ish) network, usually over a slow(-ish ;-) WAN link like a 56K switched circuit. You could see them as the first series of protocol-converting gateways, though. Werent they built by BBN, and based on PDP-11(/23's) with the Fuzzball software load image? --f From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Oct 10 12:03:00 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC94@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl>; from Fred.van.Kempen@microwalt.nl on Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 06:49:20PM +0200 References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC94@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <20021010100444.A25814@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 06:49:20PM +0200, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Werent they built by BBN, and based on PDP-11(/23's) with the > Fuzzball software load image? No, those units were the Fuzzballs. (I think the hardware name inspired the softtware.) The IMPs were Honeywell minicomputers -- DDP-516s according to this site: http://www.ulm.ccc.de/chaos-seminar/geschichte-internet/tsld004.htm (I searched for IMP ~ Honeywell ~ Internet and that was the first useful result.) You are right about BBN. There's something else called a TIP (Terminal Interface Processor) but I don't know the difference. It lent its name to the "tip" command in UNIX. -- Derek From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Oct 10 12:14:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021010110541.01a8cd10@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3DA5B62F.4080100@tiac.net> Unfortunalty my VCR is down, and I did not tape the program. But yes, there are several shots of people using Imlac's, probalby playing Mazewar in some shots, in others where you get to see the Imlac screen its full of slightly flickering text. None of the shots showed the optional programmers console, but perhaps this was not such a common accessory? My Imalc is still set-up in my living room, not far from the TV, so it was really easy to spot the machine sitting next to the TV on the TV itself! No question, they were Imlacs. Tom Uban wrote: > At 11:55 AM 10/10/2002 -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: > >> This show had the most footage of Imlac's I've ever seen. A really >> great program! > > > There was actual footage of Imlacs? I would really like to see that... > What did > it show? Any chance someone recorded this and I can get a copy of the > section > on Imlacs? I checked the History Channel web page for show times and > it did > not list and future showings of this episode. > > --tom > > >> David A. Woyciesjes wrote: >> >>> Just curious... did anybody else watch the History Channel last >>> night, 7:00PM Eastern Time. The Modern Marvels episode was about the >>> creation of the internet. Rather fascinating to me (who learned some >>> things), and kinda neat to put faces to names... >>> Not to mention the pictures of the old, err, classic >>> computers and >>> terminals... >> >> >> > > From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Oct 10 12:27:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC94@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3DA5B693.5060502@tiac.net> No, the first IMP's were build on Interdata machines I think, long long before Qbus. Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >> Yeah, even my wife enjoyed it! >> >Sadly, we don't get it in Europe... *sigh* Anyone got a taped >copy? > >>So, the IMPs they built would be the first network interface, >>right? The precurser to the present-day NIC. >> >Well, no.. IMP's connected a local(-ish) network to the remote >(-ish) network, usually over a slow(-ish ;-) WAN link like a >56K switched circuit. You could see them as the first series >of protocol-converting gateways, though. > >Werent they built by BBN, and based on PDP-11(/23's) with the >Fuzzball software load image? > >--f > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021010/6b3103e8/attachment.html From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Oct 10 12:54:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC94@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On 10/10/02, Fred N. van Kempen scribbled: > > Yeah, even my wife enjoyed it! > Sadly, we don't get it in Europe... *sigh* Anyone got a taped > copy? > > > So, the IMPs they built would be the first network interface, > > right? The precurser to the present-day NIC. > Well, no.. IMP's connected a local(-ish) network to the remote > (-ish) network, usually over a slow(-ish ;-) WAN link like a > 56K switched circuit. You could see them as the first series > of protocol-converting gateways, though. > > Werent they built by BBN, and based on PDP-11(/23's) with the > Fuzzball software load image? > Yeah, built by BBN. They didn't really say in the show what they based on, though... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Oct 10 13:19:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021010110541.01a8cd10@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <004701c27089$82cc1b00$90f8b8ce@impac.com> I couldn't find future showings either, but I did find this: http://store.aetv.com/html/catalog/vp01.jhtml?id=42747 Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Uban Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 9:15 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web At 11:55 AM 10/10/2002 -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: >This show had the most footage of Imlac's I've ever seen. A really great >program! There was actual footage of Imlacs? I would really like to see that... What did it show? Any chance someone recorded this and I can get a copy of the section on Imlacs? I checked the History Channel web page for show times and it did not list and future showings of this episode. --tom >David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > >> Just curious... did anybody else watch the History Channel last >>night, 7:00PM Eastern Time. The Modern Marvels episode was about the >>creation of the internet. Rather fascinating to me (who learned some >>things), and kinda neat to put faces to names... >> Not to mention the pictures of the old, err, classic computers and >>terminals... > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Oct 10 13:30:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <004701c27089$82cc1b00$90f8b8ce@impac.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021010110541.01a8cd10@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021010133231.01a7c3d8@ubanproductions.com> Yes, I found that too, but I'm not sure that I want to spend $24.95 + SH for the show. I was hoping that the local library had a copy, but they do not (yet). --tom At 11:19 AM 10/10/2002 -0700, you wrote: >I couldn't find future showings either, but I did find this: >http://store.aetv.com/html/catalog/vp01.jhtml?id=42747 > >Erik S. Klein >www.vintage-computer.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Tom Uban >Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 9:15 AM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web > >At 11:55 AM 10/10/2002 -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: > >This show had the most footage of Imlac's I've ever seen. A really >great > >program! > >There was actual footage of Imlacs? I would really like to see that... >What did >it show? Any chance someone recorded this and I can get a copy of the >section >on Imlacs? I checked the History Channel web page for show times and it >did >not list and future showings of this episode. > >--tom > > > >David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > > > >> Just curious... did anybody else watch the History Channel >last > >>night, 7:00PM Eastern Time. The Modern Marvels episode was about the > >>creation of the internet. Rather fascinating to me (who learned some > >>things), and kinda neat to put faces to names... > >> Not to mention the pictures of the old, err, classic >computers and > >>terminals... > > > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 10 13:59:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: My awesome find!!! Message-ID: Hey all, Yesterday I obtained a Documation card reader, 600cpm, for the total cost of... *drumroll* $20! Anyone have docs? WOOOHOOO! Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Oct 10 14:09:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: My awesome find!!! References: Message-ID: <02b801c27090$97ff7ce0$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Pictures man, we need PICTURES! Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Jennings" To: Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 1:59 PM Subject: My awesome find!!! > Hey all, > Yesterday I obtained a Documation card reader, 600cpm, for the total cost > of... *drumroll* $20! Anyone have docs? > > WOOOHOOO! > > Will J > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 10 14:23:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: A quandry.... Message-ID: I dunno, I prefer TIFFs, but they have the disadvantage of being honkin' huge.. But at least I can go and in be anal-retentive and edit them to look better than the originals, can't edit pdfs nearly as much... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu Oct 10 14:52:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? Message-ID: <20021010195230.VFQU7350.imf28bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Thanks, Bob. I've been using this system off and on for a couple of years, and it never occurred to me that I had to park the heads before each power-down. Apparently there hasn't been any damage as a result, but I'll start doing it . . . Glen 0/0 > From: Feldman, Robert > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? > Date: Thursday, October 10, 2002 12:33 PM > > I seem to remember that self-parking heads generally were not available on > the 10MB drives of Kaypro 10 vintage, so I did a little Googling and came up > with the following > (http://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n12/8_The_Kaypro_10_more_than_.php > ) from CREATIVE COMPUTING VOL. 9, NO. 12 / DECEMBER 1983: > > "A very important command is included in the Kaypro 10 system software. > SAFETY moves the read/write heads on the hard disk to the safe landing zone > on the disk. This must be done before turning the power off or the surface > of the hard disk may be damaged. The SAFETY command is invoked from the > command mode in CP/M." > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:37 PM > To: classiccmp > Subject: Re: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? > > > > > On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > Hi -- > > > > Thanks to Don Maslin I'll soon have a set of reload diskettes for my > Kaypro > > 10, and I plan to bring it from home to my shop to do the reload. > > > > Is there a "park" or "ship" command I need to run before transporting the > > unit, so as not to damage the hard drive? > > IIRC, it is built into the operating system and when the HD LED goes > out, the heads have been parked. > - don > > > TIA -- > > > > Glen > > 0/0 From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Oct 10 15:01:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: A quandry.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think what I'll do is post both HTML and PDF. The OCR ability in Abbyy FineReader is so good as to be spooky and since I verify and hand-correct any errors that do show up, those two formats should be sufficient. Expect CP/M 68K docs soon as well. g. On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > I dunno, I prefer TIFFs, but they have the disadvantage of being honkin' > huge.. But at least I can go and in be anal-retentive and edit them to look > better than the originals, can't edit pdfs nearly as much... > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 10 15:17:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? Message-ID: <200210102016.NAA19593@clulw009.amd.com> Hi There really isn't much danger if the machine isn't moved. The heads are really quite smooth and landing doesn't cause any significant issues. The problem happens because the back edge of the head is very sharp. If the surface back rotates, just a tiny amount, this back edge will dig into the surface. Some of the early drives had an issue because of motor cogging. This would cause the disk to back rotate a little on stopping. The early fix for this was to put a one way brake on the spindles. Dwight >From: "Glen Goodwin" > >Thanks, Bob. I've been using this system off and on for a couple of years, >and it never occurred to me that I had to park the heads before each >power-down. Apparently there hasn't been any damage as a result, but I'll >start doing it . . . > >Glen >0/0 > >> From: Feldman, Robert >> To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' >> Subject: RE: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? >> Date: Thursday, October 10, 2002 12:33 PM >> >> I seem to remember that self-parking heads generally were not available >on >> the 10MB drives of Kaypro 10 vintage, so I did a little Googling and came >up >> with the following >> >(http://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n12/8_The_Kaypro_10_more_than_.php > >> ) from CREATIVE COMPUTING VOL. 9, NO. 12 / DECEMBER 1983: >> >> "A very important command is included in the Kaypro 10 system software. >> SAFETY moves the read/write heads on the hard disk to the safe landing >zone >> on the disk. This must be done before turning the power off or the >surface >> of the hard disk may be damaged. The SAFETY command is invoked from the >> command mode in CP/M." >> >> Bob >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:37 PM >> To: classiccmp >> Subject: Re: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: >> >> > Hi -- >> > >> > Thanks to Don Maslin I'll soon have a set of reload diskettes for my >> Kaypro >> > 10, and I plan to bring it from home to my shop to do the reload. >> > >> > Is there a "park" or "ship" command I need to run before transporting >the >> > unit, so as not to damage the hard drive? >> >> IIRC, it is built into the operating system and when the HD LED goes >> out, the heads have been parked. >> - don >> >> > TIA -- >> > >> > Glen >> > 0/0 > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Oct 10 15:24:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: My awesome find!!! In-Reply-To: from "Will Jennings" at Oct 10, 2002 12:59:58 PM Message-ID: <200210102025.g9AKPQ324679@shell1.aracnet.com> > Hey all, > Yesterday I obtained a Documation card reader, 600cpm, for the total cost > of... *drumroll* $20! Anyone have docs? > > WOOOHOOO! > > Will J Lucky Bum! Do you have any kind of an interface for it? What are you planning to attach it to? Zane From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 10 16:38:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021010110541.01a8cd10@ubanproductions.com> References: <3DA5A2E5.6020201@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021010174033.0dcf806a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:15 AM 10/10/02 -0500, you wrote: >At 11:55 AM 10/10/2002 -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: >>This show had the most footage of Imlac's I've ever seen. A really great >>program! > >There was actual footage of Imlacs? I would really like to see that... What did >it show? Any chance someone recorded this and I can get a copy of the section >on Imlacs? I checked the History Channel web page for show times and it did >not list and future showings of this episode. > >--tom Did you check their website to see if it listed the show episodes? They usually sell video taped copies of the various episodes. You should be able to buy one via their website. Joe From allain at panix.com Thu Oct 10 16:50:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021010110541.01a8cd10@ubanproductions.com> <3DA5B62F.4080100@tiac.net> Message-ID: <008c01c270a7$16f37ae0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > But yes, there are several shots of people using Imlac's, > probalby playing Mazewar in some shots Mazewar: is this the Olin Lathrop version? We had a Totally Excellent copy going at RPI. AFAIK it was *authored* by Mr. Lathrop. We had it served up on a Pr1me 750. > None of the shots showed the optional programmers console, > but perhaps this was not such a common accessory? At school we had maybe ~4 with; ~35 without. > No question, they were Imlacs. Congratulations Tom and Bob. Wonder how Sellam's Imlac is doing? BTW I checked the History channel's site. Nothing on this show this month after the 9th, so a tape would be useful. John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 10 19:18:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Oct 9, 2 10:03:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1336 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021010/0146820a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 10 19:21:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: New acquisition, and question In-Reply-To: <200210101549.LAA65900465@shell.TheWorld.com> from "Megan" at Oct 10, 2 11:49:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 586 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021010/7063d691/attachment.ksh From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Oct 10 19:32:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes Message-ID: <006001c270bd$bddd9320$3200a8c0@winnt> Well, after the recent discussion of scopes for vintage computers, I've put together a web page with a couple of pictures of two of my scopes. One is a Kenwood SM-220 station monitor that I use with the Ham Radio stuff. The other is a Tektronix RM-503 dual channel scope that I use for troubleshooting the PDP-8/E and perepherals. In the photo, it is sitting on top of a currently non-operational Sykes 7200 Dual 8" Disk drive. Here is the URL: http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu/scopes.html From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Oct 10 20:14:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: New acquisition, and question Message-ID: <200210110115.VAA65942573@shell.TheWorld.com> >Well, the PDP8/e has 2 rows of lights (Address, Data) on the panel too... >Or is that not what you meant. I'm familiar with the 8/E, I have one (and a LAB-8/E, too). This has more rows of lights than an 8/E,F,M. I don't have it in front of me, but I'm sure it had like 4 rows of lights (like an 8/I,L) and no rotary switch. >What boards are in it (M-numbers, etc)? That would help identify it, I >think. Of course... that would be simple... That is my next step... Megan From rmurphy at itm-inst.com Thu Oct 10 20:41:00 2002 From: rmurphy at itm-inst.com (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: New acquisition, and question In-Reply-To: <200210110115.VAA65942573@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021010213307.00a64810@mail.itm-inst.com> At 09:15 PM 10/10/02 -0400, Megan wrote: > >Well, the PDP8/e has 2 rows of lights (Address, Data) on the panel > too... > >Or is that not what you meant. > >I'm familiar with the 8/E, I have one (and a LAB-8/E, too). This has >more rows of lights than an 8/E,F,M. I don't have it in front of me, >but I'm sure it had like 4 rows of lights (like an 8/I,L) and no >rotary switch. It could be what's referred to as a MARS (Memory Address and Register Status) panel. The only one of those I've ever seen was at our PDP8 FS lab in Parker Street. It's a full-height rack panel (same height as the 8/E) with several rows of lights for PC/AC/MQ/etc. -Rick From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 10 21:49:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: decnet Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC9A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Megan, Yay, all the VAXen are now upstairs.. took a while, too :) I was playing with the DECserver 200.. works nicely, I have three "terminals" connected to it; a VT420 as "console", my Compaq AP400 workstation, and the serial port of the DEC VXT2000. The other ports are connected to the console ports of all the VAX and PDP11 machines... works like a charm. Also, I am able to open a DECterm LAT session to the services defined above (the console ports are all listed as LAT services). Question: do you have access to DECnet-for-Ultrix, or whatever provided Ultrix systems with LAT support? Cant find it, and it MUST be around somewhere, right? cheers, Fred From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 10 22:09:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: decnet Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FC9C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> *sigh* OK, sorry folks.. I'll give it up for t'nite and get some sleep, that might keep me from misdirecting even more email... (if anyone happens to HAVE the stuff mentioned, pse contact me off-list..) --fred (*bonk*bonk*bonk*) From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Oct 11 00:09:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > RM-xxx is the Rack Mount version of the xxx. So the RM503 is a rackmount > 503 (IIRC, that one doesn't take plug-ins at all), the RM561 is a > rackmount 561 (later, smaller 500 series, taking plug-ins for both X and > Y). Right, I knew about the RM-xxx meaning rackmount, but I wondered if the 500 series might have shared a common design. > If the brightness control section is still good, is there any reason not > to bypass the switch on the back of it, and just use an external > double-pole switch in series with the mains input? It would at least > give you a working 'scope... Thats kinda how I found it when I got it...except that the wire that was used to jumper the switch had obviously gotten very hot. Since the wire had been tack soldered across the terminals, one side seems to have acted like a fuse. I imagine the power switch was probably damaged due to the same problem. Oh, and I found that someone had installed a much higher rated fuse in the scope than should have been installed... Needless to say, there is something else that needs to be fixed in the 'scope too :) > Indeed. And on some of the more complex 'scopes, like my 555, there's a > little spool of the special solder (it contains about 3% silver, like > the stuff now used for SMD assembly) mounted inside. To be used for > repairs, of course. My 561 also has that little spool of solder. I'm not sure if I saw it in one of the modules or if it was inside the main chassis. There was a warning label near the solder that indicated solver bearing solder was required to prevent damage to the silver-ceramic bond. > Unlike modern instruments, you were expected to repair the 500 series. > Not that they need it very often. I need to eventually track down manuals for the 561 and it's X/Y modules, but I've just got way too many projects right now ;) Do you know if the 561 will require genuine Tektronix probes like the newer 60MHz analog Teks I mentioned before? Thinking about it now, I believe I also have a 502 and 502A buried somewhere, currently in unknown condition. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Oct 11 00:14:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:53 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <006001c270bd$bddd9320$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > Well, after the recent discussion of scopes for vintage computers, I've > put together a web page with a couple of pictures of two of my scopes. > One is a Kenwood SM-220 station monitor that I use with the Ham Radio > stuff. The other is a Tektronix RM-503 dual channel scope that I use > for troubleshooting the PDP-8/E and perepherals. In the photo, it is > sitting on top of a currently non-operational Sykes 7200 Dual 8" Disk > drive. That 503 sure is a beauty. Many of the older scopes I've seen of that vintage were very dirty, and quite often had lots of dings/dents. -Toth From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Oct 11 00:59:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021011060018.92785.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> There is a Yahoo group for the restoration of old Tek scopes. I have found the people in it very helpful. The hobbies are somewhat similar, given that the older equipment was so much better built and maintainable. --- Tothwolf wrote: > On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > > Well, after the recent discussion of scopes for > vintage computers, I've > > put together a web page with a couple of pictures > of two of my scopes. > > One is a Kenwood SM-220 station monitor that I use > with the Ham Radio > > stuff. The other is a Tektronix RM-503 dual > channel scope that I use > > for troubleshooting the PDP-8/E and perepherals. > In the photo, it is > > sitting on top of a currently non-operational > Sykes 7200 Dual 8" Disk > > drive. > > That 503 sure is a beauty. Many of the older scopes > I've seen of that > vintage were very dirty, and quite often had lots of > dings/dents. > > -Toth > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From jd at sourcecode.co.za Fri Oct 11 01:12:00 2002 From: jd at sourcecode.co.za (JD Gouws) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Software for Orion Unilab II?? Message-ID: <8D3112E09D20A14CBDE1502C2EF752900A1697@scpdc.sourcecode.co.za> FYI: I have a lot of docs on Z-80 and some of the related hardware like the real-time-clock-thingy. I haven't searched the net to see if these are already readily availible or not. If they aren't availible on the 'net or incomplete I will gladly scan mine in if someone is interested. -----Original Message----- From: Rich Beaudry [mailto:r_beaudry@hotmail.com] Sent: 10 October 2002 04:41 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Software for Orion Unilab II?? Hello all, As part of a recent eBay win, I acquired an Orion Instruments Unilab II. I have cables/software for the Rockwell 65/11EAB, and am looking for cables/software for any other processor, especially the 1802, Z-80, 8080, 8088. If anyone has software available, and cabling diagrams, please let me know! I have complete docs available, as well as the software for the 65/11EAB... I'd also be willing to write out a cable diagram for the 65/11EAB. Thanks! Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Oct 11 01:50:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes References: <006001c270bd$bddd9320$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <004f01c270f2$ad0b7140$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Christopher McNabb wrote: > Well, after the recent discussion of scopes for vintage computers, > I've put together a web page with a couple of pictures of two of my > scopes. One is a Kenwood SM-220 station monitor that I use with the > Ham Radio stuff. The other is a Tektronix RM-503 dual channel scope > that I use for troubleshooting the PDP-8/E and perepherals. In the > photo, it is sitting on top of a currently non-operational Sykes 7200 > Dual 8" Disk drive. Wow. That Tek is a beauty... Unlike my Tek 466 analog storage scope. I still need a probe, new storage pouch (the studs are missing from the one on the scope now) and a front panel cover (big blue plastic thing used to protect the panel while the scope is in storage). But other than that, it's in great shape. I got it in a test equipment auction for about 10% normal retail price (40 GBP). And it works flawlessly. Did I mention I've also got the service manual? I found it in the storage pouch when I was checking it for damage after I got it home. It's still in as-new condition. Dud Tek use any oddball parts in the 466 (besides the CRT) that are now difficult to get? I'd like to stock up on spares for this thing before it fails. I've also got a Gould OS1100A, good condition (it works and produces a nice bright trace), 30MHz, dual trace, delay sweep scope that I'm selling for GBP100 ONO. Buyer collects or pays shipping. Anyone (preferably in England) want this thing? After "graduating" to a Tek, I see no reason to keep it. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 11 09:30:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels In-Reply-To: <002301c26fce$8389fdc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so > disks to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled > using felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come > off without a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these > stupid things off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my > disks? I've tried WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an > upside down airblaster (freeze spray for half the price) and a few other > things and nothing works! Any citrus-based cleaner will generally work. The trick is to leave it on long enough for the chemical to soften up the sticky goo long enough to make it clot up and roll off with a paper towel or whatnot. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 11 09:32:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, John Lawson wrote: > There are several variations on this product, but Goo-Gone is what I > have used successfully in this case. IIRC, there was thread some months > back on this exact subject - might be worth a dusty stumble through the > Archives... There have been many threads on this subject over the years ;) Another name is Goof-Off! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 11 09:43:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <008c01c270a7$16f37ae0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, John Allain wrote: > > None of the shots showed the optional programmers console, > > but perhaps this was not such a common accessory? > > At school we had maybe ~4 with; ~35 without. I didn't get one with the PDS-1, but I got one with the PDS-1D. > Congratulations Tom and Bob. Wonder how Sellam's Imlac is doing? They are still in dust collection mode. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Oct 11 10:07:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021011150834.16670.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> I wanted to mention, that Goof-Off is a much "hotter" formulation than "Goo-Gone", and is MUCH MORE LIKELY to damage plastic. With any solvent, test it if possible before using! However, I've never had Goo-Gone damage plastic. Goof-Off, yes! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Oct 11 10:57:01 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011104844.023784d0@pc> Dear Topco, I've created a web page to publicize and discuss the horrible misinterpretation of the facts of the history of computing as delivered to thousands of kids on your recent box of Corn Puffs. You can see it at: http://www.threedee.com/jcm/cereal/ I'd like to talk to the person who wrote and designed this box. I'd like to offer to serve as a consultant to help you design more accurate and more entertaining cereal boxes than this. Sincerely, John Foust (920) 674-5200 www.threedee.com/jcm From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Oct 11 11:01:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels In-Reply-To: <20021011150834.16670.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011105632.0226f3f8@pc> At 08:08 AM 10/11/2002 -0700, Loboyko Steve wrote: >I wanted to mention, that Goof-Off is a much "hotter" >formulation than "Goo-Gone", and is MUCH MORE LIKELY >to damage plastic. I think Goof-Off is more petroleum-based, and Goo-Gone is citrus-based. Hydrocarbons all. :-) - John From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Oct 11 11:14:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels In-Reply-To: <20021011150834.16670.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote: > I wanted to mention, that Goof-Off is a much "hotter" > formulation than "Goo-Gone", and is MUCH MORE LIKELY > to damage plastic. With any solvent, test it if > possible before using! However, I've never had > Goo-Gone damage plastic. Goof-Off, yes! Goof-Off is some extreme stuff. It WILL melt most case plastics, for example, enough to make it flexible in about 35 seconds. The other thing nobody's mentioned about both products is that they're highly toxic [0]. Especially with Goof-Off, I finally quit believing that "just this one thing" idea. If the cap's coming off the bottle, it's under the exhaust hood or outside. Doc [0] Not in any "fun" way, either. From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Oct 11 11:21:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes, another RM503! References: <006001c270bd$bddd9320$3200a8c0@winnt> Message-ID: <3DA6FB4A.2030304@tiac.net> Ok Vintage hardware fans... Yet another Tektronics RM503 scope? Yep, complete, functional, but it could use some tweaking, no screen burns is available in centeral MA. Due to the weight, I'd prefer not to ship this, so local pick-up is strongly prefered. (It has a good power switch) Any reasonable trade or offer will be accepted. From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Oct 11 11:32:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011104844.023784d0@pc> Message-ID: <3DA6FDE3.5070501@tiac.net> On the original floppy's being in cardboard... I have a very ancient Dicom 7 1/2 inch dual floppy disk system, and some media for those bizzare Memorex drives. Indeed, they are made from cardboard. Its been impregnated and pressed into a composite material, but it clearly is cardboard. Does anyone on the list know anything about these ancient 7 1/2 inch Memorex floppy drives? John Foust wrote: >Dear Topco, > >I've created a web page to publicize and discuss the horrible >misinterpretation of the facts of the history of computing >as delivered to thousands of kids on your recent box of >Corn Puffs. You can see it at: > >http://www.threedee.com/jcm/cereal/ > >I'd like to talk to the person who wrote and designed this box. >I'd like to offer to serve as a consultant to help you design >more accurate and more entertaining cereal boxes than this. > >Sincerely, > >John Foust >(920) 674-5200 >www.threedee.com/jcm > > From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Oct 11 12:10:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: <3DA6FDE3.5070501@tiac.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011104844.023784d0@pc> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011120535.056417a0@pc> At 12:35 PM 10/11/2002 -0400, you wrote: >On the original floppy's being in cardboard... >I have a very ancient Dicom 7 1/2 inch dual floppy disk system, and some media for those >bizzare Memorex drives. Indeed, they are made from cardboard. Its been impregnated and >pressed into a composite material, but it clearly is cardboard. I'm sure that's what the Topco artist meant. :-) - John From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Oct 11 12:12:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: New acquisition, and question Message-ID: <200210111712.NAA65578726@shell.TheWorld.com> >It could be what's referred to as a MARS (Memory Address and Register >Status) panel. The only one of those I've ever seen was at our PDP8 FS >lab in Parker Street. It's a full-height rack panel (same height as the >8/E) with several rows of lights for PC/AC/MQ/etc. The front panel consists of the following EA MA INST o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o MB F E D WC CA B o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o Link AC Ion Par Prot Run o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o POWER | paddle switches SWITCH - - - - - The boards hang from the backplane (which is really grimey... can someone suggest how to clean it?) and are reachable from under the chassis: Front panel end ============================ M220 M220 M113 M111 M220 M220 M700 M700 M220 M220 M216 M115 M220 M220 M114 M310 M220 M220 M216 M310 M220 M220 M111 M310 M617 M617 M216 M310 M617 M617 M115 M160 M160 M160 M119 ---- M115 M216 M117 ---- M160 M111 M115 M113 M160 M113 M117 M111 M115 M119 M113 M310 ---- ---- M113 M310 fan ---- ---- ---- M216 side ---- ---- M360 M617 G020 G020 G221 G221 G020 G020 G221 G221 G020 G020 memory W025 W025 memory W025 W025 memory G228 G228 G221 G221 ---- G228 G221 G221 G624 G624 G228 G228 G624 G624 M102 ---- G624 G624 M623 M623 G785 G785 M115 M623 ---- ---- M660 M906 ---- ---- M660 M906 ---- ---- M707 M707 M516 ---- M706 M706 M516 ---- M452 20ma console connecter ---- ---- ---- ---- M111 ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ============================ fuses, power cord Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Oct 11 12:14:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: decnet Message-ID: <200210111716.NAA65875383@shell.TheWorld.com> Unfortunately, I never had access to DECnet/Ultrix... that was done in a different group. I don't think it was ever updated for later versions of Ultrix. It may still just run, though. I think the last version of it was V4.2. I'm not sure what the legal issues are about Lat, though... I think it is owned (or is it only marketed) by Meridian, ltd. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 11 12:23:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: New acquisition, and question In-Reply-To: <200210111712.NAA65578726@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20021011172443.77997.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Megan wrote: > The front panel consists of the following > > EA MA INST > o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o > > MB F E D WC CA B > o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o > > Link AC Ion Par Prot Run > o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o > > > POWER | paddle switches > SWITCH > > - - - - - > > The boards hang from the backplane (which is really grimey... can > someone suggest how to clean it?) and are reachable from under > the chassis: > > Front panel end > ============================ > M220 M220 M113 M111 > M220 M220 M700 M700 > M220 M220 M216 M115 > M220 M220 M114 M310 > M220 M220 M216 M310 > M220 M220 M111 M310 > M617 M617 M216 M310 > M617 M617 M115 M160 > M160 M160 M119 ---- > M115 M216 M117 ---- > M160 M111 M115 M113 > M160 M113 M117 M111 > M115 M119 M113 M310 > ---- ---- M113 M310 > fan ---- ---- ---- M216 > side ---- ---- M360 M617 > G020 G020 G221 G221 > G020 G020 G221 G221 > G020 G020 memory > W025 W025 memory > W025 W025 memory > G228 G228 G221 G221 > ---- G228 G221 G221 > G624 G624 G228 G228 > G624 G624 M102 ---- > G624 G624 M623 M623 > G785 G785 M115 M623 > ---- ---- M660 M906 > ---- ---- M660 M906 > ---- ---- M707 M707 > M516 ---- M706 M706 > M516 ---- M452 20ma console connecter > ---- ---- ---- ---- > M111 ---- ---- ---- > ---- ---- ---- ---- > ============================ > fuses, power cord > > Megan Gentry That's a PDP-8/L. I've had one since 1982... no OMNIBUS. The blank spots are for the 13-bit parity stack (middle section) and for the high speed punch and reader and bus drivers and cable connectors for the BM08, etc. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Oct 11 12:37:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: New acquisition, and question Message-ID: <200210111738.NAA64641528@shell.TheWorld.com> Okay, it is a PDP-8/L, but I don't remember an -8/L with the kind of paddle switches this one has... I seem to remember them being the rocker kind like on a pdp-8/I Megan From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Oct 11 12:50:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <3DA6FB4A.2030304@tiac.net> Message-ID: Did Tek have any models before the 512? From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Oct 11 13:03:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: <3DA6FDE3.5070501@tiac.net> Message-ID: I haven't seen a 7.5" diskette. Assuming that the picture is not to scale,... The floppy doesn't have an index hole. The notches on the leading edge are consistent (albeit not accurately placed) with the write-protect notch of an 8" disk. Further trivia: On "The Computer Bowl" a few years ago, Bill Gates' entire team could not state where the write-protect notch was on an 8" diskette! For our Computer Faire booth, we used to have a 5' inflatable toy Tyrannosaurus (wearing a valid admission badge as VP of Marketing) holding an 8" diskette with a bite out of it. One time, a little kid walked up and said, "that's not real." My assistant said, "that's right, it's just a plastic inflatable." The kid responded, "not that, you dork, that disk is fake." Bob said, "No, that's a real diskette; they used to make them like that." The kid rolled his eyes and said, "yeah. right." and walked away. On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > On the original floppy's being in cardboard... > > I have a very ancient Dicom 7 1/2 inch dual floppy disk system, and some > media for those > bizzare Memorex drives. Indeed, they are made from cardboard. Its been > impregnated and > pressed into a composite material, but it clearly is cardboard. > > Does anyone on the list know anything about these ancient 7 1/2 inch > Memorex floppy drives? > > John Foust wrote: > > >Dear Topco, > > > >I've created a web page to publicize and discuss the horrible > >misinterpretation of the facts of the history of computing > >as delivered to thousands of kids on your recent box of > >Corn Puffs. You can see it at: > > > >http://www.threedee.com/jcm/cereal/ > > > >I'd like to talk to the person who wrote and designed this box. > >I'd like to offer to serve as a consultant to help you design > >more accurate and more entertaining cereal boxes than this. > > > >Sincerely, > > > >John Foust > >(920) 674-5200 > >www.threedee.com/jcm From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 11 13:12:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Goof-Off is some extreme stuff. It WILL melt most case plastics, for > example, enough to make it flexible in about 35 seconds. Definitely do NOT apply it directly to the object you are attempting to cleanse of evil goo. I always apply it first to a cloth and then use the cloth to buff the target. I've even used Goof-Off on cardboard boxes with crayon written on them (you know how some of those thrift stores use wax pencils to write prices on stuff--annoying). But I applied it to a towel first of course. > The other thing nobody's mentioned about both products is that they're > highly toxic [0]. Especially with Goof-Off, I finally quit believing > that "just this one thing" idea. If the cap's coming off the bottle, > it's under the exhaust hood or outside. > > Doc > > [0] Not in any "fun" way, either. Definitely not. I recommend PVC glue. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 11 13:14:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > For our Computer Faire booth, we used to have a 5' inflatable toy > Tyrannosaurus (wearing a valid admission badge as VP of Marketing) holding > an 8" diskette with a bite out of it. One time, a little kid walked up > and said, "that's not real." My assistant said, "that's right, it's just > a plastic inflatable." The kid responded, "not that, you dork, that disk > is fake." Bob said, "No, that's a real diskette; they used to make them > like that." The kid rolled his eyes and said, "yeah. right." and walked > away. Little punk... :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Oct 11 13:20:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011120535.056417a0@pc> Message-ID: > And I don't think it's a short hop from having an LED light source to > having an LED calculator. Calculators existed with different displays > before LEDs. I used calculators with mechanical display, Nixie tubes, and CRTs > Watches and clocks? They were digital before LEDs, too. I've had mechanical digital clocks, but I can't recall any digital watches before LEDs. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 11 13:32:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Oct 11, 2 00:23:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3246 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021011/17fb81f2/attachment.ksh From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Oct 11 13:44:24 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation References: Message-ID: <3DA71E25.9040600@charter.net> I had a Caravelle by Bulova that was a mechanical digital display. Got it for a grad present in 1972. James >>Watches and clocks? They were digital before LEDs, too. > > I've had mechanical digital clocks, > but I can't recall any digital watches before LEDs. > > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Oct 11 13:44:37 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes References: Message-ID: <002901c27156$65c17aa0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Did Tek have any models before the 512? Not sure. I think my Tek 466 dates back to about 1980. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From emu at ecubics.com Fri Oct 11 13:46:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal Message-ID: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> Hi, what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? Now I have all this nice VTxxx I ever wanted, but they always miss the graphics capabilities, I had on my terminals in the office. (not talking about GUIs, just few nice lines on the screen) So, is there something like emulating VTxxx (52,100,200,320,340) and tektronix ? (probably even 38400 baud ? I really like to talk about terminals, not software for PC's emulating those ... cheers & thanks From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Oct 11 13:58:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011120535.056417a0@pc> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011134043.0238f458@pc> At 11:21 AM 10/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: >> Watches and clocks? They were digital before LEDs, too. >I've had mechanical digital clocks, >but I can't recall any digital watches before LEDs. Point taken. I would say that there were digital LED non-portable clocks before there was a digital LED watch. Can anyone recognize their story about the invention and marketing of the first LED? Were they talking about the light-emitting diode itself, or the alphanumeric? This http://www.datamath.org/Display/Monsanto.htm points to Nick Holonyak, Jr. of GE as the inventor of the LED in 1962 and discusses how Monsanto developed the alphanumeric. Hamilton released the Pulsar LED watch in 1970. - John From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 11 14:01:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> Message-ID: >what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? I've got VT100's, VT220's, VT320's and VT420's. Plus I've used VT520's, Wyse, and HP terminals as well as a couple others. My favorite is the VT420. Though I must admit I lust after a VT340+, but I have yet to get my hands on one. Oh, and the new VNC terminals that one or two companies make now, look most interesting.... Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 11 14:02:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <04a901c27158$c7d549e0$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Favorite terminal depends on what you're using it for: My favorite terminal to use as a system console.... MicroTerm ACT IV. This is just a keyboard, and you use a 9" composite security monitor with it. LOVE the feel, high coolness factor. Not something you would use for programming everyday. My favorite terminal to use for everyday use... Either MicroTerm Act V - Very compact, no frills, bulletproof. Or - WYSE-30. My favorite terminal not to use, but just for looks and coolness factor - ADDS Consul 580. Very old, very cool, very vintage. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "emanuel stiebler" To: Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 1:48 PM Subject: Favorite terminal > Hi, > > what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? > > Now I have all this nice VTxxx I ever wanted, but they always > miss the graphics capabilities, I had on my terminals in the office. > (not talking about GUIs, just few nice lines on the screen) > > So, is there something like emulating VTxxx (52,100,200,320,340) and > tektronix ? (probably even 38400 baud ? > > I really like to talk about terminals, not software for PC's > emulating those ... > > cheers & thanks > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 11 14:06:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L troubleshooting (was Re: New acquisition, and question) In-Reply-To: <200210111738.NAA64641528@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20021011190731.21254.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Megan wrote: > Okay, it is a PDP-8/L, but I don't remember an -8/L with the kind > of paddle switches this one has... I seem to remember them being > the rocker kind like on a pdp-8/I All of my -8/Ls (3.5) have PDP-8/e-style toggle switches. My -8/I does have the rocker switches you describe. The 1970 Small Computer Handbook shows -8/Ls with paddle switches. Still a nice find, though. My -8/L is currenly my showcase machine - I fire up the ASR-33 and the PC04 (PC05?) and load FOCAL for folks. It was also my first-ever -8 - Dayton Hamfest, 1982, $35 + 8" floppy drive in trade. Got some minor processor glitch I haven't tracked down yet... I get the FOCAL prompt, but it won't load Hammurabi from either the ASR-33 or the high-speed reader. Most of the basic functionality is there - it runs an inchworm just fine. Once I fix the problem, I'll reattach the BM08 and bring it back up to 12KW and show people paper-tape BASIC and Star Trek (after I fix the tear in my floating-point tape ;-) When you get to debugging it and if you see any behavior that leads you to think there are hardware problems, after cleaning the card fingers, take a hard look at any 7474 chips. I rigged up a test clip to an automated IC tester to debug M-series modules out of the circuit (having never written any software to drive my VIC-20 M-series tester) and found that the most common chip to die anywhere in the machine was the 7474 dual D flip-flop. Unfortunately, there are several of them in the M220 Major Registers modules and this simplistic tester isn't able to cleanly test them because of the multiple interconnects. I have a small box of "to-be-repaired" M-series modules from my -8/L collection. It's mostly M220s and M216s, with an occasional M160 and M111. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Oct 11 14:16:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10/11/02, Zane H. Healy scribbled: > >what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? > > I've got VT100's, VT220's, VT320's and VT420's. Plus I've used VT520's, > Wyse, and HP terminals as well as a couple others. My favorite is the > VT420. Though I must admit I lust after a VT340+, but I have yet to get my > hands on one. > > Agreed. My favorite is the VT420 also, with the LK401 keyboard. And I'm referring to the black and white one, not the black and orange. What I like about the VT420 is 2 simultaneous login sessions. Either on 2 different TTY ports on one machine, or TTY on two different machines... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Oct 11 14:26:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L troubleshooting (was Re: New acquisition, and question) Message-ID: <200210111927.PAA64055998@shell.TheWorld.com> Okay, I've seen a picture of a PDP-8/L and the switches are correct. But someone went and replaced the front panel on it so it is dark lettering on a white background, with no company logo... Darn... Megan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 11 14:28:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021011192923.95104.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? > > I've got VT100's, VT220's, VT320's and VT420's. Plus I've used VT520's, > Wyse, and HP terminals as well as a couple others. My favorite is the > VT420. Though I must admit I lust after a VT340+, but I have yet to get > my hands on one. I'm happy with a VT102 or a VT220 (but not for VT-52 emulation - it doesn't accurately run the VTEDIT TECO macro) for most stuff. I also have a quantity of C-Itoh 101 (VT102 clones) and 101e (logically a VT102 clone, physically with a base and a tilt-screen) terminals. We were happy with them at SRC. One nice feature about the 101e is the internal digital clock on the setup screen (I had a DCL script called from my login script that shot the right escape sequence to my 101e so I could check the time by tapping the SETUP key). Another nice feature was that the printer port could also be used to provide a second session, but without the modern fancy real-time capture and refresh of the second session - if something comes down the pipe for the non-active session, it goes to the bit bucket. It was handy when in an app like an editor that could be refreshed, though. Stuff on the command line was gone forever if missed, so bad for compiles. When using an actual terminal these days, I'd say that 90% of my time is spent on a VT-220, one I've had since 1984. I'd love something newer. Nothing has fallen on me since I sold a MicroBus full of VT320s for 90% of the cost of the VAX they were attached to (bought uVAX-2000 with 6 terminals, DHT-32, and an external (2nd) RD54 for under $800, sold the terminals on the way home to a 3rd-party reseller in town for ~$100 each). If a VT-420 appeared locally (to save shipping costs), I'd snap it up in a heartbeat. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Fri Oct 11 14:28:21 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal Message-ID: >what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? >Now I have all this nice VTxxx I ever wanted, but they always >miss the graphics capabilities, I had on my terminals in the office. >(not talking about GUIs, just few nice lines on the screen) I have a very clean H19 terminal, with a graphics board by Northwest Technical Products (I think -- it's at home, and I'm supposed to be working :-)). I even have the manuals for the H19 and the graphics board. The board allows for some nice graphics capabilities, and 132 column text (SWEEEEEEEET in WordStar, though hard on the eyes). I use it as a terminal for my Compupro S-100 system ... Still works just fine, and it's clean and neat. A nice terminal.... Rich B., _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From univac2 at earthlink.net Fri Oct 11 14:28:31 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 10/11/02 1:04 PM, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) at cisin@xenosoft.com wrote: > For our Computer Faire booth, we used to have a 5' inflatable toy > Tyrannosaurus (wearing a valid admission badge as VP of Marketing) holding > an 8" diskette with a bite out of it. One time, a little kid walked up > and said, "that's not real." My assistant said, "that's right, it's just > a plastic inflatable." The kid responded, "not that, you dork, that disk > is fake." Bob said, "No, that's a real diskette; they used to make them > like that." The kid rolled his eyes and said, "yeah. right." and walked > away. I've had a few experiences like that. But my little brother is 8 years old, and he knows what an 8" floppy is. I even had him using them on a TRS-80 Model II once. He's quite familiar with what most of the things in my collection are, and can tell the difference between the PDP-11/34 and the PDP-11/23. And he was smart enough to know that the two very large things on the floor that kept him from getting to his iMac for several months were disk drives. RK05j's to be exact. I recently promised to teach him Pascal. I recently promised to teach my father how to turn a computer on. :-) I've always thought that computer literacy classes in schools should teach computer history. -- Owen Robertson From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Oct 11 14:29:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> Message-ID: > Now I have all this nice VTxxx I ever wanted, but they always > miss the graphics capabilities, I had on my terminals in the office. > (not talking about GUIs, just few nice lines on the screen) > > So, is there something like emulating VTxxx (52,100,200,320,340) and > tektronix ? (probably even 38400 baud ? > I used to have a VT52(?) terminal that I bbs'd on with a 300 baud acoustic modem. The keyboard was pretty neat in that it was nearly identical to what you'd find on a Kaypro 2 or 4. g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Oct 11 14:30:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <04a901c27158$c7d549e0$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > My favorite terminal not to use, but just for looks and coolness factor - > ADDS Consul 580. Very old, very cool, very vintage. > The Intertec(mec?) Intertube II was a cool looking terminal too. g. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 11 14:31:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels In-Reply-To: References: <002301c26fce$8389fdc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021011152828.4cf75fe8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:31 AM 10/11/02 -0700, sellam wrote: >On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > >> OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so >> disks to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled >> using felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come >> off without a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these >> stupid things off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my >> disks? I've tried WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an >> upside down airblaster (freeze spray for half the price) and a few other >> things and nothing works! > >Any citrus-based cleaner will generally work. The trick is to leave it >on long enough for the chemical to soften up the sticky goo long enough to >make it clot up and roll off with a paper towel or whatnot. I've found that it helps if you cover the cleaner with a piece of foil after you apply it to help slow down the evaporation. It also helps if you heat the surface before you apply the cleaner. The cleaner is flammable so don't try to heat it after applying it. Joe From emu at ecubics.com Fri Oct 11 14:33:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: Message-ID: <3DA727E7.8444440@ecubics.com> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > I've got VT100's, VT220's, VT320's and VT420's. Plus I've used VT520's, > Wyse, and HP terminals as well as a couple others. My favorite is the > VT420. Dual session, is nice if you have to test something & work on the other machine ... > Though I must admit I lust after a VT340+, but I have yet to get my > hands on one. Yeeeeesssss. But they are still expensive, even VERY used. > Oh, and the new VNC terminals that one or two companies make now, look most > interesting.... And a vnc client for my pdp11 ? ;-) cheers From emu at ecubics.com Fri Oct 11 14:37:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: Message-ID: <3DA728EE.C04E0BCC@ecubics.com> Gene Buckle wrote: > > I used to have a VT52(?) terminal that I bbs'd on with a 300 baud acoustic > modem. The keyboard was pretty neat in that it was nearly identical to > what you'd find on a Kaypro 2 or 4. Yes, the vt52 was a nice one. The only "stackable" terminal I know of ;-) cheers From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Oct 11 14:40:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, emanuel stiebler wrote: > what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? > > Now I have all this nice VTxxx I ever wanted, but they always > miss the graphics capabilities, I had on my terminals in the office. > (not talking about GUIs, just few nice lines on the screen) > > So, is there something like emulating VTxxx (52,100,200,320,340) and > tektronix ? (probably even 38400 baud ? I've used VT100s, VT220s, VT320, VT420, VT525s, and various Wyse gear. In the VT series, I've two favorites--the VT320 w/LK201 keyboard would be the first. The second is the VT525 because it takes a standard SVGA monitor and PS/2 style keyboard. Another nice thing about the VT525 is all the various ISO character sets it supports by default which include Cyrillic, Hebrew, Greek, and Turkish. Many of the VT series have graphic plotting capabilities and they've also got sixel graphics modes. And don't forget the GIF viewer for VT320 terminals: ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/packages/pkgsrc/graphics/gif320/README.html -brian. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Oct 11 14:50:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation References: Message-ID: <00ba01c2715f$adb139a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Owen Robertson wrote: > I've had a few experiences like that. But my little brother is 8 > years old, and he knows what an 8" floppy is. My little brother is 13 years old and his PC has a 5.25" floppy drive fitted :-) > I even had him using > them on a TRS-80 Model II once. Quite an achievement. I often get asked to remove "that piece of junk" (the 5.25" drive) from his machine. I would if I had a blanking plate... > He's quite familiar with what most of > the things in my collection are, and can tell the difference between > the PDP-11/34 and the PDP-11/23. I don't have a PDP-anything, nor do I have the room for one. I would like to learn my way around the DEC operating system used on VAX machines (sorry, the name escapes me), and maybe get a MicroVAX or something small to start out with, though. My collection tends to center around oddball machines, singleboard computers, microprocessor trainers, that sort of thing. I'm currently building a COSMAC Elf (or I will be when the wire-wrap tool and CDP1861 VIDC arrive). > And he was smart enough to know that > the two very large things on the floor that kept him from getting to > his iMac for several months were disk drives. RK05j's to be exact. I'd kill for a PowerMac. If only I had the space... Another thing I want/need is a 10baseT Ethernet card or StrongARM CPU upgrade card (and Risc OS 3.7) for my Acorn Risc PC600. I want to put it on the local network and use it as an internet access/software development platform. > I recently promised to teach him Pascal. Planning to teach him C++, too? :-) I've been using Pascal since age 9, C++ since age 15. I despise C++. > I recently promised to teach > my father how to turn a computer on. :-) I tried to get my father to let me teach him - his response was "There's no point". He quickly changed his mind when his new job dictated that he write reports using a computer. His employer found out he didn't even know how to switch a computer on, so they sent him on a "basic computing" course. I've promised to teach him how to use the Internet on my network. > I've always thought that computer literacy classes in schools should > teach computer history. Me too. One of my previous IT teachers knew how to work M$ Word and that was about it. The janitor managed to bring down the network by pulling the power brick for the hub out of the wall. The IT guy spent 20mins the next morning (during my IT "lesson") looking at the settings on all the machines ("One machine's bad settings can corrupt the whole network"), then gave up. I noticed the hub was unplugged, plugged it back in and the fan in the hub started whirring. A few click-clunks from the hub later and the network was back up. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From patrick at evocative.com Fri Oct 11 16:00:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> Message-ID: > what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? Sounds like the favorite is the VT-group, eh? My personal all-time favorite is the Pr1me PT-100 (which I believe was a rebranded terminal of another name... anybody?) It rocked for emacs. Currently I use a Wyse-50 and VT-320 as a Unix console, and a Televideo 912C on my North Star Horizon (not my favorite, but it was original to the unit). I also have a NEC SpinWriter 5520, a daisy-wheel monster with a Selectric-style keyboard, which I like very much, but my wife complains bitterly about the size of it. I just show her some of the pictures you other guys have posted of your PDP-8s and -11s, 11/750's, etc., and it keeps her quiet for a while. ;-) Patrick From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 11 16:09:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011104844.023784d0@pc> from "John Foust" at Oct 11, 2 10:53:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 665 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021011/4750dd66/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 11 16:10:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Oct 11, 2 11:21:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021011/21bd93b8/attachment.ksh From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Oct 11 16:17:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: your RL02 problems In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020923160122.01b0ebe0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011162105.01aaa2b8@ubanproductions.com> Tom Uban 308 Jefferson Street Valparaiso, IN 46383 At 04:03 PM 9/23/2002 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > > > Pat, > > > > How is your RL02 effort going? Are you done with my terminator yet? > >I haven't had much time to play with it lately. I'm pretty sure that it's >either a bad controller or drive. I'll try to get your terminator sent >back to you in the next couple days - could you send me your address again >so I don't have to go looking for it? > >Thanks. > >-- Pat From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 11 16:30:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> from "emanuel stiebler" at Oct 11, 2 12:48:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1028 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021011/fecf385c/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 11 16:44:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: from "David A. Woyciesjes" at Oct 11, 2002 03:18:42 PM Message-ID: <200210112145.g9BLjva17627@shell1.aracnet.com> > Agreed. My favorite is the VT420 also, with the LK401 keyboard. > And I'm referring to the black and white one, not the black and orange. > What I like about the VT420 is 2 simultaneous login sessions. Either on 2 > different TTY ports on one machine, or TTY on two different machines... The VT420 came in three types B&W, Green, and Amber, personally my favorite is the Amber, but I think I've got at least one of each type. I've got two I use all the time, one is the console on my two main servers, the other is plugged into two ports of a DECserver. If I had the desktop space, I'd probably have at least a couple more plugged into the decserver. Zane From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Oct 11 16:52:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:54 2005 Subject: decnet Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FCAA@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Megan wrote: [pay attention folks, I actually got the addressing right this time *grin*] > I'm not sure what the legal issues are about Lat, though... I think > it is owned (or is it only marketed) by Meridian, ltd. I believe Meridian only marketed (and sublicensed) LAT from DEC, with DEC being its owner. DEC did most of its internal LAT code development, and Meridian did most of the 'external' versions, e.g. the stuff in PC-LAT, Cisco IOS's LAT code, and probably most others, given the cost of licensing it... twas cheaper to let them do it than to get your own license and do it... :) (this from memory and various readings on the Net) --f From donm at cts.com Fri Oct 11 17:16:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote: > I seem to remember that self-parking heads generally were not available on > the 10MB drives of Kaypro 10 vintage, so I did a little Googling and came up > with the following > (http://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n12/8_The_Kaypro_10_more_than_.php > ) from CREATIVE COMPUTING VOL. 9, NO. 12 / DECEMBER 1983: > > "A very important command is included in the Kaypro 10 system software. > SAFETY moves the read/write heads on the hard disk to the safe landing zone > on the disk. This must be done before turning the power off or the surface > of the hard disk may be damaged. The SAFETY command is invoked from the > command mode in CP/M." > > Bob You are correct. My recollection was colored by a number of years experience with the TurboROM which does the automatic parking that I spoke to. - don > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:37 PM > To: classiccmp > Subject: Re: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? > > > > > On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > Hi -- > > > > Thanks to Don Maslin I'll soon have a set of reload diskettes for my > Kaypro > > 10, and I plan to bring it from home to my shop to do the reload. > > > > Is there a "park" or "ship" command I need to run before transporting the > > unit, so as not to damage the hard drive? > > IIRC, it is built into the operating system and when the HD LED goes > out, the heads have been parked. > - don > > > TIA -- > > > > Glen > > 0/0 > From emu at ecubics.com Fri Oct 11 17:17:01 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: Message-ID: <3DA74E75.7C754BB@ecubics.com> Brian Chase wrote: > > I've used VT100s, VT220s, VT320, VT420, VT525s, and various Wyse gear. > In the VT series, I've two favorites--the VT320 w/LK201 keyboard would > be the first. The second is the VT525 because it takes a standard SVGA > monitor and PS/2 style keyboard. I have them here, but still miss something with graphics, or even tektronix emulation. And don't like to have the noise of a PC around my desk ... > Many of the VT series have graphic plotting capabilities and they've > also got sixel graphics modes. And don't forget the GIF viewer for > VT320 terminals: > ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/packages/pkgsrc/graphics/gif320/README.html Never tried it. cheers From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Oct 11 17:46:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com>; from emu@ecubics.com on Fri, Oct 11, 2002 at 20:48:05 CEST References: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <20021012003638.C16770@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.10.11 20:48 emanuel stiebler wrote: > what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? Well, I have two favorites: VT420 because it has this nice dual session feature (one for the alpha, one for the VAX) and a nice, white screen. But I dislike the DEC LK201 / LK401 keyboards. The other one is a newer Wyse. (Can't remember exact type) Only one session, but good, white screen and much better keyboard. Ahh, and the Tektronix 4006. Althogh its use is not the normal use of a terminal. This device (around 25 years old) has a storage tube and the primary use is to provocate astonished looks of unbelief. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Oct 11 17:48:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: your RL02 problems In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011162105.01aaa2b8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: I'm sorry that I haven't gotten that back to you, I thought about it yesterday, but didn't get a chance to do it. I'll try _very_hard_ to get it sent out on monday. -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > Tom Uban > 308 Jefferson Street > Valparaiso, IN 46383 > > At 04:03 PM 9/23/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > > > > > Pat, > > > > > > How is your RL02 effort going? Are you done with my terminator yet? > > > >I haven't had much time to play with it lately. I'm pretty sure that it's > >either a bad controller or drive. I'll try to get your terminator sent > >back to you in the next couple days - could you send me your address again > >so I don't have to go looking for it? > > > >Thanks. > > > >-- Pat > > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Oct 11 18:07:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs Message-ID: <20021012010517.G16770@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. Are there any programming docs for the DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 available? I have one of this beasts and a NetBSD driver would be quite nice. This may be not to hard to accomplish, as there is already support for the other PDQ cards (DEF[TEP]A). -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Oct 11 18:38:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <002901c27156$65c17aa0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Did Tek have any models before the 512? > Not sure. I think my Tek 466 dates back to about 1980. > Later. In 1972? I got a military surplus Tektronix scope. I think that the model number was 512. From NAVIGATE87 at aol.com Fri Oct 11 19:35:01 2002 From: NAVIGATE87 at aol.com (NAVIGATE87@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Semiconductor Cross Ref Help Message-ID: Rich, Check the website www.aecsales.com, They have the exact parts you need by the original manufacturer. When at the parts search page be sure to check the box for "restrict search to items with exact prefix". They have been very helpful finding obsolete parts for me. Don -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021011/182ec752/attachment.html From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Oct 11 19:40:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021011173453.03a67db0@3am-software.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Matt Thomas wrote: > At 05:19 PM 10/11/2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > I have a few DEFZAs here that I'd be happy to donate for driver > > hackitude. > > The question is whether anyone with the ability wants to write > such a driver. I know I don't! What if Dave were to send you a big bag of delicious candy corn with the DEFZA? Mmmm... candy. -brian. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Oct 11 19:44:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: > I've always thought that computer literacy classes in schools should teach > computer history. There have been complaints made about my spending time in my Operating Systems class teaching the history! ("I don't want to hear about Gary Kildall; I just want to know what to click on!") From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Oct 11 20:04:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: decnet Message-ID: <200210120105.VAA63853701@shell.TheWorld.com> >I believe Meridian only marketed (and sublicensed) LAT from DEC, with >DEC being its owner. DEC did most of its internal LAT code development, >and Meridian did most of the 'external' versions, e.g. the stuff in >PC-LAT, Cisco IOS's LAT code, and probably most others, given the >cost of licensing it... twas cheaper to let them do it than to get >your own license and do it... :) Makes sense... we still maintain the lat source for Tru64 unix... I actually had a track bug through there a few years ago... Megan From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Oct 11 20:16:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L troubleshooting (was Re: New acquisition, and question) In-Reply-To: <20021011190731.21254.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021012011712.46276.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> On the FOCAL issue, I think I read that FOCAL can't load text very quickly - you have to stop and start the tape every line or two. I have noticed this with my PDP/8e clone and not-very-fast (around 100 CPS) paper tape reader. It may use its own intepreter to store coding in RAM, so it might be very slow in this area. If you can load FOCAL itself in via paper tape, this kind of proves that the PTR itself is OK. --- Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Megan wrote: > > Okay, it is a PDP-8/L, but I don't remember an > -8/L with the kind > > of paddle switches this one has... I seem to > remember them being > > the rocker kind like on a pdp-8/I > > All of my -8/Ls (3.5) have PDP-8/e-style toggle > switches. My -8/I does > have the rocker switches you describe. > > The 1970 Small Computer Handbook shows -8/Ls with > paddle switches. > > Still a nice find, though. My -8/L is currenly my > showcase machine - > I fire up the ASR-33 and the PC04 (PC05?) and load > FOCAL for folks. > It was also my first-ever -8 - Dayton Hamfest, 1982, > $35 + 8" floppy > drive in trade. > > Got some minor processor glitch I haven't tracked > down yet... I get the > FOCAL prompt, but it won't load Hammurabi from > either the ASR-33 or > the high-speed reader. Most of the basic > functionality is there - it > runs an inchworm just fine. Once I fix the problem, > I'll reattach > the BM08 and bring it back up to 12KW and show > people paper-tape BASIC > and Star Trek (after I fix the tear in my > floating-point tape ;-) > > When you get to debugging it and if you see any > behavior that leads you > to think there are hardware problems, after cleaning > the card fingers, > take a hard look at any 7474 chips. I rigged up a > test clip to an > automated IC tester to debug M-series modules out of > the circuit (having > never written any software to drive my VIC-20 > M-series tester) and > found that the most common chip to die anywhere in > the machine was > the 7474 dual D flip-flop. Unfortunately, there are > several of them > in the M220 Major Registers modules and this > simplistic tester isn't > able to cleanly test them because of the multiple > interconnects. I > have a small box of "to-be-repaired" M-series > modules from my -8/L > collection. It's mostly M220s and M216s, with an > occasional M160 and > M111. > > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More > http://faith.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From dan at ekoan.com Fri Oct 11 20:32:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA728EE.C04E0BCC@ecubics.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021011213941.048ba020@enigma> At 01:39 PM 10/11/02 -0600, you wrote: >Yes, the vt52 was a nice one. The only "stackable" terminal I know of >;-) I've got an Hewlett-Packard 2382A, the "one cubit foot" terminal that stacks quite nicely. The detached keyboard is another issue. I'd really like to find an AsciiScope, if only for the nostalgia factor. I used one in the late 1970's to program an HP 2000 ACCESS Timeshared BASIC system but haven't seen one since. Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Oct 11 20:55:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID Message-ID: <3DA78057.FA95375E@ccp.com> I have the possibility to pick up the following: Sun 600-2575-06 : 10" square by about 4" tall. Has drive and a whole lot of memory . . . . Sun Sparc Station 1 Model 147 p/n 608-2217-01 : 15" square by about 3" tall. Guess this is the pizza box model I only looked at both briefly, and not have any detailed info at this time. I can get matching monitors, but don't think there is a keyboard/mouse available. I was wondering if you can power them up w/o keyboard/mouse, just box and monitor to verify basic operation, whether dead or alive. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 11 21:00:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, emanuel stiebler wrote: > what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? Ok, I'll chime in. Mine is the Soroc IQ 120. I lusted after some big assed DECwriter teletype in my high school computer science class but Mr. Novak wouldn't let me have it no matter that it was dead, was no longer used to access the school district mainframe, and that I begged him incessantly. When I bought his killer Apple //e setup when school ended that summer he threw in the Soroc because he knew I would like it. I used to love just clacking away on that thing with no purpose other than to see the letters come up on the screen. I still have it. The first terminal of my collection. Now I have dozens. What do ya know? Someone OCR'd the manual. http://neurosis.hungry.com/~ben/hardware/soroc/ Rad! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 11 21:03:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: IN STYLE... THE SEX TRACKER! (fwd) Message-ID: Damn it! I'm getting spammed at this address. This is the third in about as many days. Did anyone else receive the above entitled spam? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 11 21:04:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > There have been complaints made about my spending time in my Operating > Systems class teaching the history! ("I don't want to hear about Gary > Kildall; I just want to know what to click on!") You should take the mouse away from people who complain like that. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fauradon at frontiernet.net Fri Oct 11 21:04:10 2002 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: A quandry.... References: Message-ID: <002101c271a4$702a70c0$0264640a@auradon.com> It all depends on wether you want the data to be still "mostly "there if something goes wrong with the file. AFAIK PDF and TIFF will be totally unusable with any one byte missing. whereas HTML XML and other text based format will still have useable and recognizable data. Just my $0.02 Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" To: Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 1:07 PM Subject: Re: A quandry.... > I think what I'll do is post both HTML and PDF. The OCR ability in Abbyy > FineReader is so good as to be spooky and since I verify and hand-correct > any errors that do show up, those two formats should be sufficient. > > Expect CP/M 68K docs soon as well. > > g. > > > On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > > > I dunno, I prefer TIFFs, but they have the disadvantage of being honkin' > > huge.. But at least I can go and in be anal-retentive and edit them to look > > better than the originals, can't edit pdfs nearly as much... > > > > Will J > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Oct 11 22:01:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: <3DA78057.FA95375E@ccp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > I have the possibility to pick up the following: > > Sun 600-2575-06 : 10" square by about 4" tall. Has drive and a whole > lot of memory . . . . Sounds like an IPX, IPC or LX - I'll have to look at mine to see what model # it has on it. Either way, there should be a tag with the model on the front (Unless it has fallen off or something). It's the "Lunch Box" style of case. > Sun Sparc Station 1 Model 147 p/n 608-2217-01 : 15" square by about 3" > tall. Guess this is the pizza box model > > > I can get matching monitors, but don't think there is a keyboard/mouse > available. I was wondering if you can power them up > w/o keyboard/mouse, just box and monitor to verify basic operation, > whether dead or alive. You can hook up a serial terminal to either (using port "A"), but if you're going to do that to the Lunch Box style one, you'll need a DIN-8 to DB-25 adaptor. Fortunately, one from a MAC will work just fine. Also, don't forget about putting a null modem in line with it. If you don't have a keyboard connected, the Sparc will default to the serial port, so you probably won't be able to see anything of use on the monitor. -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 11 22:05:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: from "Gary Hildebrand" at Oct 11, 2002 08:52:23 PM Message-ID: <200210120306.g9C36MY00940@shell1.aracnet.com> > I can get matching monitors, but don't think there is a keyboard/mouse > available. I was wondering if you can power them up > w/o keyboard/mouse, just box and monitor to verify basic operation, > whether dead or alive. You should be able to just plug a Terminal into the serial port. Zane From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Oct 11 22:20:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID References: <200210120306.g9C36MY00940@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3DA79455.E015FF7F@ccp.com> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > You should be able to just plug a Terminal into the serial port. > > Zane Okay, what's the protocall?? I presume 9600 baud 8 bit No parity one stop bit or 8N1? I presume Solaris is still on the HD, and I'll need some basic commands like directory list or something like that. I thought there would be a boot screen of some sort that had a logo, and that would indicate the CPU is fine, and the frame buffers. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Oct 11 22:43:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021012034445.50326.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> The only think I can think of that is "special" about Tek probes is the 1X/10X switch grounds the small ring around the BNC connector, so that the unit will switch and the appropriate 1x/10x lamps will light automatically. Other good quality probes rated to the response of the scopes work fine other than that feature. --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > RM-xxx is the Rack Mount version of the xxx. So > the RM503 is a rackmount > > > 503 (IIRC, that one doesn't take plug-ins at > all), the RM561 is a > > > rackmount 561 (later, smaller 500 series, taking > plug-ins for both X and > > > Y). > > > > Right, I knew about the RM-xxx meaning rackmount, > but I wondered if the > > 500 series might have shared a common design. > > Some did. The 53x, 54x, and (most of) 55x have > similarities in mechanical > construciton (and circuitry to some extent). The 53x > were the > low-bandwidth models and the 55x dual beam, of > course. All took the same > plug-ins. > > The 58x (100MHz bandwidth, with a beautiful CRT with > distributed > deflection plates and a built-in delay line) were > similar but took > different, higher-bandwidth plug-ins. You could use > the plug-ins from the > 53x, etc if you had a type 81 adpater between the > plug-in and the 'scope. > > The above series had plug-in Y preamplifiers, but in > general the > timebased (and X deflection system) was built into > the 'scope. There are > certainly 2 exceptions to that -- the 536 took 2 > 'normal' plug-ins (one > for each of X and Y -- there was a thing called a > type T which was a > timebase unit) and the 555 has plug-in timebases, > but they're special > modules, not interchangeable with anything else. The > only reason they > were plug-ins was to allow access for repairs, > really. > > The 56x were the odd ones. The insturments > (non-rack-mount versions) were > a lot smaller than the other series. The plug-ins > were totally different, > and all 'scopes took plug-ins for X and Y. > > > > > > If the brightness control section is still good, > is there any reason not > > > to bypass the switch on the back of it, and just > use an external > > > double-pole switch in series with the mains > input? It would at least > > > give you a working 'scope... > > > > Thats kinda how I found it when I got it...except > that the wire that was > > used to jumper the switch had obviously gotten > very hot. Since the wire > > had been tack soldered across the terminals, one > side seems to have acted > > like a fuse. I imagine the power switch was > probably damaged due to the > > same problem. Oh, and I found that someone had > installed a much higher > > rated fuse in the scope than should have been > installed... Needless to > > say, there is something else that needs to be > fixed in the 'scope too :) > > Hmm.. Why do idiots persist in over-rating fuses > when they blow??? > > OK, you've probably got a serious short somewhere in > the PSU section. A > smoothing capacitor if you're lucky, shorted turns > on the transformer if > you're not. Tekky used to claim that these > transformers have a lifetime > warranty, but apparently their definition of > 'lifetime' is not the same > as mine -- you will not get a free (or any other) > replacement now :-(. > > > > > Do you know if the 561 will require genuine > Tektronix probes like the > > newer 60MHz analog Teks I mentioned before? > > I wasn't aware _any_ Tektronix 'scopes needed > special probes (apart from > the plug-ins that came with integral probes). On > later 'scopes the probes > will do things like set the on-screen readout, but > that doesn't apply to > the 561. > > Provided the probe can match the input impedance of > the 'scope, it will > work fine. > > -tony > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Oct 11 22:45:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > I have the possibility to pick up the following: > > > > Sun 600-2575-06 : 10" square by about 4" tall. Has drive and a whole > > lot of memory . . . . > > Sounds like an IPX, IPC or LX - I'll have to look at mine to see what > model # it has on it. Either way, there should be a tag with the model on > the front (Unless it has fallen off or something). It's the "Lunch Box" > style of case. The only reference turned up in Google for that number is in association with a Sparc IPC. Nice little Unix box; NetBSD ran like a dream on the one I had. The battery backed NVRAM can be problematic if the battery is dead. There's an excellent FAQ on this which you might find useful: http://www.squirrel.com/squirrel/sun-nvram-hostid.faq.html -brian. From dittman at dittman.net Fri Oct 11 22:53:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: decnet In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 11, 2002 11:53:40 PM Message-ID: <200210120348.g9C3mwE12638@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I'm not sure what the legal issues are about Lat, though... I think > > it is owned (or is it only marketed) by Meridian, ltd. > I believe Meridian only marketed (and sublicensed) LAT from DEC, with > DEC being its owner. DEC did most of its internal LAT code development, > and Meridian did most of the 'external' versions, e.g. the stuff in > PC-LAT, Cisco IOS's LAT code, and probably most others, given the > cost of licensing it... twas cheaper to let them do it than to get > your own license and do it... :) I have a copy of Meridian's SuperLAT for Win9x/NT. They dropped the product and are no longer supporting or developing it. Too bad; it was helpful to have LAT to access LAT-based terminal servers. It doesn't seem to work with Win2K/XP. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From univac2 at earthlink.net Fri Oct 11 22:54:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: IN STYLE... THE SEX TRACKER! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 10/11/02 9:04 PM, Sellam Ismail at foo@siconic.com wrote: > Damn it! I'm getting spammed at this address. This is the third in about > as many days. Did anyone else receive the above entitled spam? Oh tell me it's not what it sounds like. :-) I've never gotten *that* spam. I always get boring ones, like "Fake Diploma - Completely Legal!" or "Watch This Stock!". But the closest I've come to that is an innexpensive alternative to Viagra. -- Owen Robertson From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Oct 11 22:55:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: <3DA79455.E015FF7F@ccp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > You should be able to just plug a Terminal into the serial port. > > Okay, what's the protocall?? I presume 9600 baud 8 bit No parity one > stop bit or 8N1? I presume Solaris is still on the HD, and I'll need > some basic commands like directory list or something like that. Without knowing a login/password, all you are going to get after it boots is a login prompt. If the Sparcs are intact, I'd imagine there isn't anything wrong with either of them, as they are quite tough and well made. My Sparc LX didn't come with a hard drive, so the reason for it not working will be easy to cure. I didn't get a keyboard/mouse with my LX either, but would certainly like to have one if someone uncovers any. > I thought there would be a boot screen of some sort that had a logo, and > that would indicate the CPU is fine, and the frame buffers. If X is configured to start after boot, and you manage to find a keyboard and boot with the local console, you may get a GUI login box, though most of the useful bits of info will be shown when the kernel boots. -Toth From dittman at dittman.net Fri Oct 11 22:56:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Oct 11, 2002 02:45:57 PM Message-ID: <200210120352.g9C3qF612658@narnia.int.dittman.net> > The VT420 came in three types B&W, Green, and Amber, personally my favorite > is the Amber, but I think I've got at least one of each type. I've got two > I use all the time, one is the console on my two main servers, the other is > plugged into two ports of a DECserver. If I had the desktop space, I'd > probably have at least a couple more plugged into the decserver. I really like the VT420, and my VT525 is nice, too, but for my emergency console I've got an LT320 plugged in to my DECserver 90M. The LT320 is nice and small, and I've got the table-mounted extension arm so it is out of the way. The LT320 is a third-party plasma terminal. There are MMJ and DB25 serial connectors, and LK201/401-compatible and AT-compatible keyboard connectors. I use an LK401 with mine. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From alex at trdlnk.com Fri Oct 11 22:59:01 2002 From: alex at trdlnk.com (alex) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.4 Domestic Kit Message-ID: <200210120400.XAA03973@trdlnk.com> Hi! I'm new to this list and I was referred here by a gentleman from sunmanagers. I have been looking for a few software packages for some time now and most of these I was able to find from people on sunmanagers. However there are three pieces of software that I still haven't been able to find, perhaps somebody can help? SunOS 4.1.4 Domestic Kit, this is the encryption addon for SunOS 4.1.4. I already have the install media, so I only need the addon. SunPC 4.2, I have a SunPC card for my SPARC 5 running Solaris 2.6, but I have been looking high and low for the drivers... Can't seem to find them anywhere. FastEthernet 1.0, I have a BigMac (be) based SBus card for my SunOS 4.1.4 box and these drivers seem to be hard to find also. With the software CD there are drivers for SunOS 4.x and I am looking for these. If any of you have, or know somebody who has, any or all of these titles, I'd very much appreciate hearing from you. Sun doesn't feel like helping me out and I can understand that; It's just a little frustrating to have an _almost_ complete setup... =) Anyway, thanks to everybody on beforehand and I just wanted to say that what I've seen on this list so far, I think I'll enjoy it! =) -Alex From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 11 23:19:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: <3DA78057.FA95375E@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20021012042015.7763.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > I have the possibility to pick up the following: > > Sun 600-2575-06 : 10" square by about 4" tall. Has drive and a whole > lot of memory . . . . Don't recognize that number. 10"x10"x4" sounds like an IPC/IPX/LX/Classic enclosure. IPCs and IPXs are sun4c architecture (eqiv to SPARC 1+ and SPARC 2, respectively), the LX and Classic are sun4m and can run Solaris 8 and 9 (with enough parity 72pin SIMMs - 64MB at least to run the installer). > Sun Sparc Station 1 Model 147 p/n 608-2217-01 : 15" square by about 3" > tall. Guess this is the pizza box model Sun 4c, runs Linux, SunOS, Solaris (poorly) - 12MHz? original SPARC processor. Like an IPC or SPARC 1+, but not as fast. Uses 30 pin parity memory. May not like 3 chip PC SIMMs. Prefers 9 chip SIMMs. Can take 1MB, probably takes 4MB (mine did). > I only looked at both briefly, and not have any detailed info at this > time. s'ok... > I can get matching monitors, but don't think there is a keyboard/mouse > available. I was wondering if you can power them up > w/o keyboard/mouse, just box and monitor to verify basic operation, > whether dead or alive. Yes. You can power any of them up with a terminal on the correct serial port (can't remember A vs B and can't easily look up at the moment). Default is 9600 baud, probably 8n1. It _is_ possible for the EEPROM settings to look for a keyboard/framebuffer only, but typical settings are to use framebuffer if a keyboard is found, or else use the serial port for a serial console. Most sun4c machines (SPARC 1, 1+, 2, IPC, IPX, ELC...) have old enough clock batteries that they are dead. The "problem" is that the system ID and the ethernet address are in the battery-backed-up SRAM. There is a magical bar code and alpha-numeric code on the lid that only Sun can reverse into a system ID (which is an 8-bit machine-type code plus the lower 24 bits of the ethernet address). The Suns-at-Home list just posted a Fourth command to enter at the "OK" ROM prompt that converts an ELC's (and maybe one other model's) code back into a 24-bit number (treat the chars as a Base-24 number and subtract an offset and convert to hex), but mostly, if the battery dies, the hardware address will be FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF rather than 08:00:20:X:Y:Z and the original is lost forever. If you have any router or system logs with the old MAC address, you can copy it to a new chip. BTW, there was apparently a mask-shrink and the new die doesn't like to play with some ancient Suns. At this point, sun4c machines are at the "hauled away as a nuisance" level because of the lack of support of sun4c in recent editions of Solaris, and the max memory is 64MB except for the SPARC 2 which can take 128MB with a rare and expensive add-in board. I'll be glad to answer what I can, but in the meantime, here are a couple of key URLs for new or potential Sun owners... http://www.squirrel.com/squirrel/sun-nvram-hostid.faq.html (how to recover from a dead NVRAM) http://www.sunhelp.org/ (general help) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Oct 11 23:45:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: <200210120352.g9C3qF612658@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3DA7A922.E70A8643@compsys.to> >Eric Dittman wrote: > The LT320 is a third-party plasma terminal. There are MMJ and > DB25 serial connectors, and LK201/401-compatible and AT-compatible > keyboard connectors. I use an LK401 with mine. Jerome Fine replies: I presume the LK201 and the LK401 are plug compatible? Also, what are the actual differences and why do you prefer the LK401? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dittman at dittman.net Fri Oct 11 23:52:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: from "Jerome H. Fine" at Oct 12, 2002 12:46:26 AM Message-ID: <200210120448.g9C4mVk12860@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > The LT320 is a third-party plasma terminal. There are MMJ and > > DB25 serial connectors, and LK201/401-compatible and AT-compatible > > keyboard connectors. I use an LK401 with mine. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I presume the LK201 and the LK401 are plug compatible? Yes. > Also, what are the actual differences and why do you prefer > the LK401? I prefer the LK401 as it has the legs to raise the back built- in, and I have a couple of LK401 keyboards, and my LK201 died a while back. I'm sure there are pictures of the two on the web somewhere, but I'm not sure where. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Oct 11 23:53:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID References: Message-ID: <3DA7AA43.528DF347@ccp.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Sounds like an IPX, IPC or LX - I'll have to look at mine to see what > model # it has on it. Either way, there should be a tag with the model on > the front (Unless it has fallen off or something). It's the "Lunch Box" > style of case Well, that got me closer to home. It is an IPC and looks like it isn't really worth the time and effort. Just wonering how well they run Linux with X. If I can find a keyboard and mouse, I may pick it up if it is really cheap. I'm guesstimating it had 8 of the 12 memory banks filled, so that has to be either 8 meg or 32. Looks like a really low grade Sun, with the usual killer gfx output. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 11 23:56:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: from "Jerome H. Fine" at Oct 12, 2002 12:46:26 AM Message-ID: <200210120457.g9C4vHa04312@shell1.aracnet.com> > Jerome Fine replies: > > I presume the LK201 and the LK401 are plug compatible? > > Also, what are the actual differences and why do you prefer > the LK401? Yes, they are compatable/interchangable. I've ended up with a LK201 attached to the VT420 on my PDP-11/73 somehow, but the rest of the VT420's I'm using have LK401's. I prefer the LK401's as they 'feel' better to me. I think the keys are slightly different in shape/angle. I just wish they had the flap that at least some LK201's have to put the piece of cardboard that shows what the function keys are mapped to. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Oct 12 00:00:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Oct 11, 2002 09:20:15 PM Message-ID: <200210120502.g9C52Ad04550@shell1.aracnet.com> > Solaris, and the max memory is 64MB except for the SPARC 2 which can > take 128MB with a rare and expensive add-in board. Isn't that 96MB with a rare and expensive add-in board, and 128MB with an EVEN rarer and expensive daughter board for the rare and expensive add-in board. Zane (Sorry, I couldn't resist, but from what I've seen it's true (each of my Sparc 2's has 96MB)). From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sat Oct 12 00:07:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <200210120457.g9C4vHa04312@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20021012050831.9313.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> The LK401's are incredibly cheap and not really designed to be repairable, but I did repair one, because I had to, on one of my VT320's. It uses conductive rubber button/rubber sheet/metallized flexible PCB technology with a microcontroller. I thought one of the keys had a "dome" cut, but after taking it apart and removing the unspeakable crud/moldy food/human grime, I determined that the crud was stopping the key from making contact well. I cleaned it, bathed/409'd the keys and the entire keyboard in the bathtub except the flexible PCB's and it was like new! I like the shape of ADM-3's and early Televideo's. I wish I had one of the "eames era" DG Dasher terminals, I passed one up on eBay some time ago. Early Televideo keyboards (including the early PC keyboards were the absolute best, even better than IBM's, IMHO. The PLATO terminal I briefly used at Purdue was the neatest looking display, ever, but I don't remember much about it. --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Jerome Fine replies: > > > > I presume the LK201 and the LK401 are plug > compatible? > > > > Also, what are the actual differences and why do > you prefer > > the LK401? > > Yes, they are compatable/interchangable. I've ended > up with a LK201 > attached to the VT420 on my PDP-11/73 somehow, but > the rest of the VT420's > I'm using have LK401's. I prefer the LK401's as > they 'feel' better to me. > I think the keys are slightly different in > shape/angle. I just wish they > had the flap that at least some LK201's have to put > the piece of cardboard > that shows what the function keys are mapped to. > > Zane __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From jruschme at netzero.net Sat Oct 12 00:10:00 2002 From: jruschme at netzero.net (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: <3DA7AA43.528DF347@ccp.com> Message-ID: > From: Gary Hildebrand > Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 12:51 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Sun Sparc ID > > > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > Sounds like an IPX, IPC or LX - I'll have to look at mine to see what > > model # it has on it. Either way, there should be a tag with > the model on > > the front (Unless it has fallen off or something). It's the "Lunch Box" > > style of case > > Well, that got me closer to home. It is an IPC and looks like it isn't > really worth the time and effort. Just wonering how well they run Linux > with X. On a Sun4c system like the IPC, the canonical wisdom is to avoid Linux because of performance issues related to problems in the memory management code. The better bet is NetBSD (go with 1.5.3) or OpenBSD. > Looks like a really low grade Sun, with the usual killer gfx output. IIRC, IPCs had mono onboard video. <<>> From hansp at aconit.org Sat Oct 12 01:02:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Computer exhibit and school lkids - was Re: Corn Puffs box misinformation References: Message-ID: <3DA7BB29.30502@aconit.org> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: >>I've always thought that computer literacy classes in schools should teach >>computer history. > There have been complaints made about my spending time in my Operating > Systems class teaching the history! ("I don't want to hear about Gary > Kildall; I just want to know what to click on!") We are exhibiting some old computers (PDP8/f, IBM 5110, Tektronix 4052, Xerox 1186 etc all working to some extent or other) and have had visits from school classes. Yesterday a TV team came to film and part of the show was an interview with a 10 year old or so girl who affirmed that you could do more, and more interesting, things with old computers than with new ones! The interviewer asked if she was sure and she said yes! Out of the mouths of babes... Another class a girl of about the same age who in the course of about 30 minutes managed to master binary, octal and was on the way to understanding the basics of PDP-8 machine language before being dragged away when her class left. There is hope yet!! One thing I continue to struggle with is how to display a working system so as to attract the interests of the passing visitor. Any display must be quick enough to capture the visitors interest but not too long to bore them. It must connect with the visitor to make sense to them and must somehow show the essentials of the software. I don't think I have solved that problem yet in any general way. For the PDP-8 we have the CPU box, no terminal. I loaded a 30 instruction program to calculate the average of a sequnece of numbers entered on the keys. It takes about 15 minutes of so to teach a group of kids to enter binary numbers and read the result. The most common comment (before we start) is : "Where's the screen and keyboard?" -- hbp From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Oct 12 02:09:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Computer exhibit and school lkids - was Re: Corn Puffs box misinformation References: <3DA7BB29.30502@aconit.org> Message-ID: <000701c271be$936e4ec0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hans B Pufal wrote: > For the PDP-8 we have the CPU box, no terminal. I loaded a 30 > instruction program to calculate the average of a sequnece of numbers > entered on the keys. It takes about 15 minutes of so to teach a group > of kids to enter binary numbers and read the result. The most common > comment (before we start) is : "Where's the screen and keyboard?" I can understand why :-) OTOH, I do like the glow of a set of blinkenlights while I'm coding. Shame I still need a few bargraph LED displays and a random number generator to duplicate the effect on my PC... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Oct 12 03:30:01 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:48:05 MDT." <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <200210111950.UAA25403@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, emanuel stiebler said: > > > what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? > I'm using a Qume QVT103 which is ok, and I'm hoping soon to acquire a keyboard for my Cifer T5 which I believe does Tek graphics. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sat Oct 12 04:04:01 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Otter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: My First S-100 System Message-ID: <3DA782E8.10643.56B57D6@localhost> Hi all! I just discovered this mailing list a couple nights back. Now I have a place to share my cool classic comp acquisitions. :) Anyway, last weekend, when I reported to my squadron for our monthly drill, I was informed that one of our officers had brought in a whole bunch of old computer stuff that I might be interested in (he's moving across country and isn't able to pack it with him.) I had a great time sifting through the massive amount of classics that were stacked at the back of the dining hall, and deciding what I should claim. Since our little apartment here is short on storage space at the moment, I just selected a Cromemco System Two and a Cromemco System Three, as well as a box of various S-100 cards, manuals, and disks (including a complete set of Cromix-Plus and Unix System V floppies.) Had I realized that the thing that looked like a jerry can, which I thought was most likely a power supply of some sort was actually a Cromemco hard drive, I would have taken it along with the Cromemco System One that was sitting in front of it as well. Oh well, live and learn. :/ So the next day, after final roll call, I load up the stuff in the truck of the guy who gave me a ride home, and me and my roommate that afternoon start looking over everything. We were disappointed that the System Three was totally stripped of all cards (though it does have a pair of 8 inch floppy drives). The System Two on the other hand, was a different story. Not only does it have a pair of floppies, but it also has a 21MB hard drive, 3 256K RAM cards, and a couple other cards I can't remember at the moment. Since we are in need of some cash at the moment, we went ahead and put some of the excess stuff (spare manuals, extra cards, and the Fortran 77 and 68000 C packages up for auction. We might also sell off one of the 256K cards that's in the System Two as well. But that isn't the point of this post (not wanting to turn this into a FA posting, y'know). We are looking forward to one day having the room to set up the System Two and actually making her a part of our little home LAN. I'm predicting that this is going to be a long term project, much like restoring a classic car. I suppose the most important thing I need to get for her is some sort of terminal/control console. Fortunately, dumb terminals show up at the thrift stores around here every so often, as well as other interesting bits of old computer parts (I have an IBM 3274 Terminal Controller set up as a TV stand in my room. For only $10, it is a much cooler piece than the usual bits of overpriced furniture Goodwill normally gets...) I'm also wondering if this little honey could be used as a console for the Cromemco system... http://www.oz.net/~otter/gallery/Geek-Console.JPG Sorry. Can't remember what model number it is at the moment. It is way too heavy for me to move by myself so I can see the label on the back. :p As for the System Three; we haven't decided what to do with it yet. It doesn't have enough stuff with it to make it worth the hassles of auctioning (plus, without having an operational car at the moment, shipping would be an enormous logistical challenge.) If someone can come pick it up (Kitsap County, WA), I would be open to some sort of reasonable buy or preferably trade offer; especially if I could trade it for a Commodore PET (been wanting one of those ever since I saw one back in the old days on an episode of Buck Rogers, and later in the background in Kirk's apartment in Star Trek II: http://www.oz.net/~otter/images/scr-st2-1.JPG Anyway, enough incoherent babbling from me for now. Time for me to catch a bit of sleep. Later! -- Scarletdown P.S. If anyone is interested, I can send off an email to someone at my squadron Monday Morning to find out where that Cromemco System One was donated to. From mhscc at canada.com Sat Oct 12 04:57:01 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes Message-ID: <000901c271d6$01785ac0$5b4a3dcf@msed03> In the August 1968 issue of the "Tektronix Service Scope" there is an article comparing the 512 to the new 323 (the first 'scope manufactured by Sony/Tektronix), and although the article doesn't specifically say so, it does sound like the 512 was the first Tek scope, introduced in May 1949. In another issue an article on power supply troubleshooting does state (in bold print at that) that power transformers are warranted for the life of the instrument (mind you, I guess if the transformer goes, the instrument's pretty dead :). I'll gladly photocopy the relevant page if anybody wants to try to get a free replacement :). Also, further to Toth & Tony's discussion, according to Tek the most common problem when the fuse blows immediately is a shorted diode in the bridge. mike ------------Original Message------------ Message: 43 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:39:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Vintage Scopes Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Did Tek have any models before the 512? > Not sure. I think my Tek 466 dates back to about 1980. > Later. In 1972? I got a military surplus Tektronix scope. I think that the model number was 512. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Oct 12 05:22:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: decnet Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FCAD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Eric, (and others) > I have a copy of Meridian's SuperLAT for Win9x/NT. They dropped > the product and are no longer supporting or developing it. Too > bad; it was helpful to have LAT to access LAT-based terminal > servers. It doesn't seem to work with Win2K/XP. Dunno about the legality of this, but: I do have Pathworks32 which should work.. Personally, I use Reflection/X for terminal stuff, as it supports both the serial ports and network connections, including LAT and X11.. :) --f From dittman at dittman.net Sat Oct 12 07:15:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: decnet In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 12, 2002 12:23:17 PM Message-ID: <200210121211.g9CCBYW13380@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I have a copy of Meridian's SuperLAT for Win9x/NT. They dropped > > the product and are no longer supporting or developing it. Too > > bad; it was helpful to have LAT to access LAT-based terminal > > servers. It doesn't seem to work with Win2K/XP. > Dunno about the legality of this, but: I do have Pathworks32 > which should work.. Which version? The version I have (V7.2) doesn't work with XP. The LAT driver doesn't work with Win2K, IIRC. > Personally, I use Reflection/X for terminal stuff, as it supports > both the serial ports and network connections, including LAT and > X11.. :) I use Reflection for X, too, and the LAT driver didn't work in Win2K. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From foo at siconic.com Sat Oct 12 08:15:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: IN STYLE... THE SEX TRACKER! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: > > Damn it! I'm getting spammed at this address. This is the third in about > > as many days. Did anyone else receive the above entitled spam? > > Oh tell me it's not what it sounds like. :-) It might be a virus that someone on the list has. > I've never gotten *that* spam. I always get boring ones, like "Fake Diploma > - Completely Legal!" or "Watch This Stock!". But the closest I've come to > that is an innexpensive alternative to Viagra. I went into an ice cream shop in Mexico and one of the flavors was "Viagra". I bought a cup but it didn't do anything. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Oct 12 08:17:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Computer exhibit and school lkids - was Re: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: <3DA7BB29.30502@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > One thing I continue to struggle with is how to display a working system > so as to attract the interests of the passing visitor. Any display must > be quick enough to capture the visitors interest but not too long to > bore them. It must connect with the visitor to make sense to them and > must somehow show the essentials of the software. I don't think I have > solved that problem yet in any general way. GAMES! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From djg at drs-esg.com Sat Oct 12 08:21:00 2002 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: My awesome find!!! Message-ID: <200210121322.JAA00402@drs-esg.com> >Hey all, >Yesterday I obtained a Documation card reader, 600cpm, for the total cost >of... *drumroll* $20! Anyone have docs? > It may not be useful but I have the Documation M200 card reader manual at http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/view.pl?id=168 David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From foo at siconic.com Sat Oct 12 08:23:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: My First S-100 System In-Reply-To: <3DA782E8.10643.56B57D6@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Otter wrote: > I'm also wondering if this little honey could be used as a console > for the Cromemco system... > > http://www.oz.net/~otter/gallery/Geek-Console.JPG That's most likely an IBM System/23 (or a 51x0?) I'm not terribly familiar with them beyond recognizing their shape. But anyway, I'm sure you could use it as a terminal IF it has an RS-232 port and IF you can either get or write some terminal software for it. Which goes for just about any PC in existence. > As for the System Three; we haven't decided what to do with it yet. > It doesn't have enough stuff with it to make it worth the hassles of > auctioning (plus, without having an operational car at the moment, > shipping would be an enormous logistical challenge.) If someone can You may have a full card set for it in all the S-100 boards you took from the pile. What cards did you get? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 12 09:14:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3DA82F1A.2020501@tiac.net> How about the BBN BitGraph? VT-100, with a 'real' VT-100 keyboard, and Tektronics emulation, all done on a 68000 CPU. One of my personal favorites has always been the HP 2647's though, built like tanks! emanuel stiebler wrote: >Hi, > >what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? > >Now I have all this nice VTxxx I ever wanted, but they always >miss the graphics capabilities, I had on my terminals in the office. >(not talking about GUIs, just few nice lines on the screen) > >So, is there something like emulating VTxxx (52,100,200,320,340) and >tektronix ? (probably even 38400 baud ? > >I really like to talk about terminals, not software for PC's >emulating those ... > >cheers & thanks > From hansp at aconit.org Sat Oct 12 10:09:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:55 2005 Subject: My awesome find!!! References: <200210121322.JAA00402@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <3DA83B66.2030409@aconit.org> David Gesswein wrote: >>Hey all, >>Yesterday I obtained a Documation card reader, 600cpm, for the total cost >>of... *drumroll* $20! Anyone have docs? >> > > It may not be useful but I have the Documation M200 card reader manual at > http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/view.pl?id=168 It should be adequate. We used this document and figured out how to interface our card reader to a PC. If you want details of our lashup contact me off list. -- hbp From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 12 10:43:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021012154447.2262.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Ruschmeyer wrote: > > Well, that got me closer to home. It is an IPC and looks like it isn't > > really worth the time and effort. Just wonering how well they run > > Linux with X. > > On a Sun4c system like the IPC, the canonical wisdom is to avoid Linux > because of performance issues related to problems in the memory > management code. The better bet is NetBSD (go with 1.5.3) or OpenBSD. Agreed. Linux on sun4c is a *dog* (I tried to install Suse on a 1+) On a 32MB machine, Solaris 2.5.1 runs faster. > > Looks like a really low grade Sun, with the usual killer gfx output. > > IIRC, IPCs had mono onboard video. Yes. A BW2 frame buffer. CG3s (basic Sun video) and CG6s (mildly accelerated) are inexpensive to free. They are both 8-bit. You probably don't want to deal with 24-bit graphics on hardware that old. It's slow as molasses in January, but it does exist. If the IPC was free and you had a burning desire to play with a SPARC, by all means go for it. For people who want to learn Solaris (friends who are looking to enhance their career opportunities), I'm recommending OT hardware - SPARC5, Ultra 1/170e, etc. To put prices into perspective, I picked up an as-is SPARC 5/110 at Dayton for $40, with 3 x 32MB (the cheap bastards), 5 x 8MB, no disk, drive sled, 100BaseTX/Wide SCSI and a dead PSU. Obviously, I paid too much, but I did get a couple of $10 DIMMs, a sled, a 100BaseTX card, and a spare motherboard for my troubles. I would not pay anywhere near half that for sun4c hardware. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From emu at ecubics.com Sat Oct 12 11:10:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> <3DA82F1A.2020501@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3DA849F8.3E846E4C@ecubics.com> Bob Shannon wrote: > > How about the BBN BitGraph? > > VT-100, with a 'real' VT-100 keyboard, and Tektronics emulation, all > done on a 68000 > CPU. Now we're talking ! And where to get such a beast ? cheers From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Oct 12 11:38:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Morrow DiskJockey 2B Message-ID: <000001c2720d$ed3ceed0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I just received a Morrow DiskJockey 2D Mod B from Jim's Garage Sale (Thanks Jim!) and I had a couple of quick questions: There are two sets of switches on the board. What do those configure and what are the settings? There is a 2708 on the board labeled BV/2. Is this a disk BIOS or a boot loader? I'm hoping to use this in my Altair to drive a pair of 801s I've got in a Lobo chasis. (My next questions will revolve around how do I get CP/M to run, etc.) I've ordered a manual from Herb Johnson but I figured I'd ask the experts for a quicker answer. Thanks in advance! Erik S. Klein -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021012/e2f48b51/attachment.html From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Oct 12 11:50:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID References: <20021012154447.2262.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DA85243.ABE64547@ccp.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > IIRC, IPCs had mono onboard video. > > Yes. A BW2 frame buffer. CG3s (basic Sun video) and CG6s (mildly > accelerated) are inexpensive to free. They are both 8-bit. You > probably don't want to deal with 24-bit graphics on hardware that old. > It's slow as molasses in January, but it does exist. > > If the IPC was free and you had a burning desire to play with a SPARC, > by all means go for it. For people who want to learn Solaris (friends > who are looking to enhance their career opportunities), I'm recommending > OT hardware - SPARC5, Ultra 1/170e, etc. To put prices into perspective, > I picked up an as-is SPARC 5/110 at Dayton for $40, with 3 x 32MB (the > cheap bastards), 5 x 8MB, no disk, drive sled, 100BaseTX/Wide SCSI > and a dead PSU. Obviously, I paid too much, but I did get a couple of > $10 DIMMs, a sled, a 100BaseTX card, and a spare motherboard for my > troubles. I would not pay anywhere near half that for sun4c hardware. > > -ethan Okay, I'll explain that to the present owner. I looked at e-greed and they were commanding <$10. This one may have another frame buffer card, as there are two of those 13W3 connectors on the back. Gary HIldebrand St. Joseph, MO From red at bears.org Sat Oct 12 12:05:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.4 Domestic Kit In-Reply-To: <200210120400.XAA03973@trdlnk.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, alex wrote: > SunPC 4.2, I have a SunPC card for my SPARC 5 running Solaris 2.6, but I have > been looking high and low for the drivers... Can't seem to find them anywhere. > > FastEthernet 1.0, I have a BigMac (be) based SBus card for my SunOS 4.1.4 box > and these drivers seem to be hard to find also. With the software CD there are > drivers for SunOS 4.x and I am looking for these. I'm looking for SunPC 3.x and FastEthernet 1.0 as well as the software for SunFDDI/DX (the VME FDDI card). Just so y'all know. (; Alex, if I come up with anything, you'll be the first guy I contact. ok r. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Oct 12 12:32:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: <20021012154447.2262.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >--- John Ruschmeyer wrote: >> > Well, that got me closer to home. It is an IPC and looks like it isn't >> > really worth the time and effort. Just wonering how well they run >> > Linux with X. >> >> On a Sun4c system like the IPC, the canonical wisdom is to avoid Linux >> because of performance issues related to problems in the memory >> management code. The better bet is NetBSD (go with 1.5.3) or OpenBSD. > >Agreed. Linux on sun4c is a *dog* (I tried to install Suse on a 1+) >On a 32MB machine, Solaris 2.5.1 runs faster. OpenBSD is likely to be a good choice. I've got a SparcBook 3GS that I accidentally trashed the Solaris install on (of course I don't have a copy of Tadpole's Solaris 2.5.1). I couldn't believe how snappy OpenBSD fells on it! >accelerated) are inexpensive to free. They are both 8-bit. You >probably don't want to deal with 24-bit graphics on hardware that old. >It's slow as molasses in January, but it does exist. If you want 24-Bit graphics, connecting over the net might be the best answer. That's how I get it for my Sparc 20 and VMS systems. >If the IPC was free and you had a burning desire to play with a SPARC, >by all means go for it. For people who want to learn Solaris (friends >who are looking to enhance their career opportunities), I'm recommending >OT hardware - SPARC5, Ultra 1/170e, etc. To put prices into perspective, Personally I only recommend Sparc 5's for OpenBSD (they're single processor systems and OpenBSD will only run on single processor Sparc's). For Solaris I'd recommend Sparc 10's and 20's as it's getting to where they're almost free, or if you either get lucky or are willing to spend a little go for an Ultra 1, 2 or 5. If you get an Ultra 1, try and get one of the E's. Now all this talk of Sparc's reminds me of what I was meaning to work on this morning... Building the second Sparc 20/712 I just finished collecting the parts for :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ken at seefried.com Sat Oct 12 12:59:01 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <20021012030101.98859.49253.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021012030101.98859.49253.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20021012192933.10469.qmail@mail.seefried.com> My most favorite was the AT&T 5620 with a host running layers. Even without layers, the 800x1024 page-sized screen was nice. Second would be a Tek 4207...fun graphics. Favorite "normal" terminal would be an amber phospor VT420. Ken From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Oct 12 14:24:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: <20021012042015.7763.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200210121900.g9CJ0XI13210@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 11 Oct, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Sun 4c, runs Linux, SunOS, Solaris (poorly) - NetBSD and OpenBSD. I run NetBSD in the 1.3 / 1.4 days on a 64 MB SS1+ with the double slot CGSIX. Nice machine. The case design is IMHO the nicest I have seen up to this time. (And I have lots of old *ix workstations.) As already stated Linux does not run well on sun4c machines due to MMU issues. > 12MHz? SS1 = 20 MHz SS1+ = 25 MHz SS2 = 40MHz IPC = 25 MHz, on board mono FB IPX = 40MHz, CGSIX on board 8 bit color FB The slowest SPARC was the 4/110 with 14.28 MHz. > original SPARC processor. SPARC V7. The first SPARC version that Sun used in products. AFAIK there where some academical predecessors. > Uses 30 pin parity memory. May not like 3 chip PC SIMMs. May depend on the SIMMs / RAM chips and the refresh cycles they need. My SS1+ was happy with 3 chip SIMMs. > Prefers 9 chip SIMMs. Can take 1MB, probably takes 4MB (mine did). All SPARCstations should be able to take 4 MB SIMMs as the SS1 can take them. (According to the sun.hardware.FAQ file.) > If you have any router or system logs with the > old MAC address, you can copy it to a new chip. I prefere to do some surgery to attach a new battery. Much cheaper. (And I get more geek points for it. ;-) ) -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Oct 12 14:24:31 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021011170740.03a5cd50@3am-software.com> Message-ID: <200210121854.g9CIsjI13193@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 11 Oct, Matt Thomas wrote: > At 04:19 PM 10/11/2002, vance@neurotica.com wrote: >>I wonder why the DEFZA isn't supported yet? > Because no one has had enough interest to do it yet. I have a DEFZA and interrest but no doc. > The DEFZA requires a new driver. I know that you are the author of the *BSD DEF[TPE]A driver. It seams you know the DEFZA hardware closer too? How hard would it be to write a NetBSD driver for the DEFZA? (I am an experienced Unix user, medium C coder and have already done some NetBSD kernel hacking. Namely a RX02 driver.) > The DEFQA can reuse > the existing PDQ framework for DEF[TPE]A. That was my thought when I had a quick glance at the DEF[TPE]A driver due to an other issue. (See my mail on port PPC at NetBSD...) -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 12 15:26:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> <3DA82F1A.2020501@tiac.net> <3DA849F8.3E846E4C@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3DA88650.6080402@tiac.net> I donated mine to Tom Uban, who used to work for BBN as I recall. The biggest problem with the BitGraph was that is is simply HUGE. Not so large as a VT-52, but close! emanuel stiebler wrote: >Bob Shannon wrote: > >>How about the BBN BitGraph? >> >>VT-100, with a 'real' VT-100 keyboard, and Tektronics emulation, all >>done on a 68000 >>CPU. >> > >Now we're talking ! >And where to get such a beast ? > >cheers > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021012/ca42ed7e/attachment.html From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 12 15:34:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: <20021012030101.98859.49253.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20021012192933.10469.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <3DA8881E.6040903@tiac.net> Hmmm, is an Imlac PDS-1 a terminal, or a system? I tend to think of it as 'the first' intellegent terminal, as it runs code locally, but did not (normally) have a stand-alone OS or mass storage. They were clearly intended to be hung off of another system like a mini or mainframe. And what other terminals came with a real front pannel? This has got to have the highest geek-attractor-factor of any 'terminal' ever made! From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Oct 12 15:38:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: latest find... Message-ID: <01f901c2722f$77451280$7800a8c0@george> A Mattel Aquarius. It's not something that I would have normally picked up, but it seemed to be reasonalbly complete, CPU, mini expander, printer, tape deck, RAM cart, and a half-dozen carts. Most in original boxes, if not packing. After reading all the "coming soon"'s and "under development"'s, all I'm really missing is a few carts and the 16K RAM cart (the one I've got is 4K). Alas, the thrift store I found it at has succumbed to the parts-are-worth-more-than-the-whole, and each piece was priced seperately. I haven't added up the total yet. :/ Bob From emu at ecubics.com Sat Oct 12 15:39:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: BBN BitGraph, was Re: Favorite terminal References: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> <3DA82F1A.2020501@tiac.net> <3DA849F8.3E846E4C@ecubics.com> <3DA88650.6080402@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3DA88900.33D70773@ecubics.com> So, is there any information on the net about this thing ? Manual ? ... cheers Bob Shannon wrote: > > I donated mine to Tom Uban, who used to work for BBN as I recall. > > The biggest problem with the BitGraph was that is is simply HUGE. Not > so large as a VT-52, but > close! > > emanuel stiebler wrote: > > > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > >> How about the BBN BitGraph? > >> VT-100, with a 'real' VT-100 keyboard, and Tektronics emulation, > >> all > >> done on a 68000 > >> CPU. > >> > > Now we're talking ! > > And where to get such a beast ? > > > > cheers > > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 12 16:49:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Sun clones, was Re: Sun Sparc ID References: Message-ID: <3DA899C5.7030400@tiac.net> I see people on the list understand these little pizza-box machines. I'll have to confess to total ignorance of the Sun workstations (having been a Domain OS user), but while removing some test equipment that had been left behind when a large company moved, I grabbed the following Sun clones: (they need homes, as the space they are taking up is worth more to me than they are...) Axil 311, loaded. TI SuperSPARC TMS390 CPU, one ST31200N HDD with 2 drive sleds, floppy, 8 slots for 168(?) pin simms, 7 simms installed. S-bus cards include an Antares Microsystems SCSI/TWP Ethernet II board, an Aurora Technologies 400S multi-port serial I/O, and a color video board with LSI Logic SPARC SGX video chip. Axil 320, no so loaded, but interesting. TI SuperSPARC TMS390 CPU with TMS390 cache controller, one ST32171N HDD with 2 drive sleds, floppy, 8 slots for 168(?) pin simms with 2 SEC KMM3144C400BS-6ES simms installed. S-bus cards include Antares Microsystems 10base-T Ethernet, and an Axil Workstations color video board with a SunGX video chip. The motherboard on the 320 is interesting, the simm slots have extensions for even wider simm modules. There are four of these extensions but only 2 are populated with contacts, each adding 36 contacts to the simm slot. I've never seen a simm like this. The simm modules installed do not use these extended contacts. The motherboard has a sticker reading 705-0004-01 rev-50 320 W/64MB. There is also a very large QFP chip marked Axil Computer with the number 100-0188-01 just behind the CPU daughterboard. This differs from the 311 which uses a LSI L64860HC-40 SPARC EMC device in a ceramic BGA package in the same location. The 311 also lacks the simm socket extensions although the silk screen and PCB are designed to accomodate them. I ~beleive~ I also have a single keyboard, mouse and color video cable. No monitors. I'm not really sure these are quite old-enough to be on topic, but after reading that people on the list were missing power supplies, drives, sleds, and video boards, I thought I should offer these up as parts machines if nothing else. These Axil machines sure appear to be mechanically identical to real Sun pizza boxes, and I suspect that all the parts are fully interchangable with the real McCoy. The power supplies do say Axil computer, but they are off-shore imports so they are probably fully compatible 'clones', but I'm guessing here. I dunno what they are, but I know they are in the way! From fauradon at frontiernet.net Sat Oct 12 17:20:01 2002 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: IN STYLE... THE SEX TRACKER! References: Message-ID: <001601c2724e$4b663440$0264640a@auradon.com> > I went into an ice cream shop in Mexico and one of the flavors was > "Viagra". I bought a cup but it didn't do anything. Well you know: it doesn't always work. Hopefully you can find contentment with something else :) From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sat Oct 12 17:53:00 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal At&t/WE Blit References: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> <3DA82F1A.2020501@tiac.net> <3DA849F8.3E846E4C@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <001301c27242$5e66d240$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> I'd love to have one, never seen a live one - but it was one of the experimental 68k based terms brought to you by the makers of Unix(tm) ;) My fave terminal that I actually own is a working VT05 (looks like a stingray) - a picture of a VT05can be seen on some pdp11 handbooks, with the funky 60's pedestal and matching chairs and DecBabes.. The V05 predates even the VT52 abd VT100's, not much in the way of control sequences - but hey it's got a 20mA loop and a termcap for unix/linux ;) Heinz > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > > How about the BBN BitGraph? > > > > VT-100, with a 'real' VT-100 keyboard, and Tektronics emulation, all > > done on a 68000 > > CPU. > > Now we're talking ! > And where to get such a beast ? > > cheers From fauradon at frontiernet.net Sat Oct 12 18:11:00 2002 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: latest find... References: <01f901c2722f$77451280$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: <000401c27254$0dec3b40$0264640a@auradon.com> Oh yeah? Well I found today a Dark Tower game almost complete and in working order. Only missing the four figurines and a few buildings. The Tower is in working order after cleaning up all the contacts and the brushes of the motor. Cool find for GW. Oh and only $5 Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert F. Schaefer" To: Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 1:36 PM Subject: latest find... > A Mattel Aquarius. It's not something that I would have normally picked up, > but it seemed to be reasonalbly complete, CPU, mini expander, printer, tape > deck, RAM cart, and a half-dozen carts. Most in original boxes, if not > packing. After reading all the "coming soon"'s and "under development"'s, > all I'm really missing is a few carts and the 16K RAM cart (the one I've got > is 4K). Alas, the thrift store I found it at has succumbed to the > parts-are-worth-more-than-the-whole, and each piece was priced seperately. > I haven't added up the total yet. :/ > > Bob > > > From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sat Oct 12 18:18:01 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Otter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: My First S-100 System In-Reply-To: References: <3DA782E8.10643.56B57D6@localhost> Message-ID: <3DA84AFB.30228.879002A@localhost> On 12 Oct 2002 at 6:24, Sellam Ismail wrote: From: Sellam Ismail To: Subject: Re: My First S-100 System Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 06:24:58 -0700 (PDT) [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Otter wrote: > I'm also wondering if this little honey could be used as a console > for the Cromemco system... > > http://www.oz.net/~otter/gallery/Geek-Console.JPG That's most likely an IBM System/23 (or a 51x0?) I'm not terribly familiar with them beyond recognizing their shape. But anyway, I'm sure you could use it as a terminal IF it has an RS-232 port and IF you can either get or write some terminal software for it. Which goes for just about any PC in existence. I was finally able to get a good look at the back. It is an IBM 5120. There's four ports on the back; 2 DB-25 female, 1 female port that looks like an AUI port, and a BNC connector. I just did a lengthy search via Google, and so far have been able to find any actual specs on this beast. But I'm guessing that one of the DB-25 ports is RS-232, and the other is probably a parallel port of some sort. I have no idea about the AUI port (if that is indeed what it is). The BNC connector is most likely a network interface (best guess is either 3270 or Token Ring). Either way would be no problem. If it is 3270, I can probably connect it to one of my PCs (either one of my Win-98 systems or one of my Linux girls) equipped with an Attachmate 3270 card. Been looking for a reason to finally try out those cards anyway. If it is Token Ring, then I can get my PS/2 Model 25 up and running and put in the MCA Token Link card I have around here somewhere and hook her up to that. I'm hoping it is 3270 though. As that will make software transfers for the 5120 a simple matter. If it is Token Ring, I will need to get ahold of an MCA ethernet adapter so the PS/2 can serve as a bridge between the 5120 and the LAN. So, the 5120, if my guesses are correct about the ports, will serve fine as a control console for the Cromemco System Two. Of course, I do eventually want to get an actual Cromemco terminal for it; preferably the Cromemco 3102, as I want her external devices to be all matching Cromemco branded items. > As for the System Three; we haven't decided what to do with it yet. > It doesn't have enough stuff with it to make it worth the hassles of > auctioning (plus, without having an operational car at the moment, > shipping would be an enormous logistical challenge.) If someone can You may have a full card set for it in all the S-100 boards you took from the pile. What cards did you get? Most of the cards were missing all of their socketed chips, and due to the afore-mentioned need of cash, I put them up on eBay yesterday. Here's a list of the cards that went up: Lot #1 - 4 Cards Cromemco 16FDC floppy disk controller card (Chips Intact) Ithaca Audio CPU card Character Generator card (J3674-01) card labelled Discreet Plot - (J3893-01) Lot #2 - 3 Cards Cromemco 16FDC floppy disk controller card unidentified card (looks like it could be a RAM card card labelled 2SIO There was also a single card I put up that I couldn't identify. Here's a picture of it: http://www.oz.net/~otter/ebay/ebb-s100-mystery-card-0.JPG Since the majority of the cards are missing their chips, I figured I'd go ahead and get rid of them and when I can afford to start collecting the higher end stuff one of these days, I would reacquire them then, only fully functional. Apparently someone thinks he will be able to do something with some of them, as the 3-Pack does have its opening $15 bid on it. :) -- Scarletdown (Certified Geek-bird) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 12 18:19:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <20021012050831.9313.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> from "Loboyko Steve" at Oct 11, 2 10:08:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 774 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021012/5d31d8a6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 12 18:20:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <000901c271d6$01785ac0$5b4a3dcf@msed03> from "M H Stein" at Oct 12, 2 05:58:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021012/12a7877b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 12 18:20:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA8881E.6040903@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Oct 12, 2 04:37:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 429 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021012/b16d69b1/attachment.ksh From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Oct 12 18:31:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: It pays to clean up... Message-ID: <200210122333.TAA62935811@shell.TheWorld.com> In cleaning out some closets (moving my collection to storage in order to prepare a condo for sale), I came across a bunch of things I had forgotten I had... A couple of RK05 drives An RK02 (diablo) drive backplane and front panel for 11/34 a couple of BA11-M boxes a couple of BA11-VA boxes my original spacewar control boxes (wired up to a DR11-C) which we used on a GT42 at WPI back in 1978 some MM11-DP core memory a battery backup unit (I think it said H755 or H775) a large cache of blank DEC 8" floppies, in the blue DEC floppy boxes. a couple of boxes of dual-high foundation cards for wiring your own devices, at least one specific unibus foundation module. and I can't remember all the rest... wheee... Megan From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Oct 12 18:34:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal Message-ID: <200210122336.TAA65858204@shell.TheWorld.com> >DEC GT40. That's a PDP11/05 (with real core memory) and a VT11 vector >display board set in a desktop case with a monitor on top and a separate >keyboard). 3 user input devices -- the keyboard, a light pen and the >lights-n-switches panel. I wish I had one... I'm trying to get the hardware I need to at least put a VT11 on an 11/05 or 11/34a so I can get spacewar running... As I mentioned in a prior post, I found the DR11C which has the original spacewar control boxes we used at WPI back in the later 70s. I also found the source for the spacewar we played -- written by a friend of mine who was also a student at WPI... Megan From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Oct 12 19:23:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > There have been complaints made about my spending time in my Operating > > Systems class teaching the history! ("I don't want to hear about Gary > > Kildall; I just want to know what to click on!") On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > You should take the mouse away from people who complain like that. I gave them two large files and told them to determine whether they matched. I even gave them the major hint that "FC" wasn't necessarily my initials. I doubt that the mouse-clickers are done yet. Any other good examples of stuff that is trivial to do at the prompt, but difficult to do "on the desktop"? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From red at bears.org Sat Oct 12 20:06:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Any other good examples of stuff that is trivial to do at the prompt, but > difficult to do "on the desktop"? Ooooh, hate to tell you this, Fred, but it totally depends on the tools you have. I offer the following evidence in counter to your example: http://www.bears.org/~red/nowhere/FileMerge.app.tiff ok r. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Oct 12 20:56:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA8881E.6040903@tiac.net> References: <20021012030101.98859.49253.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20021012192933.10469.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <3DA8881E.6040903@tiac.net> Message-ID: <2639.4.20.168.134.1034474279.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Bob Shannon wrote about the Imlac: > And what other terminals came with a real front pannel? This has got to > have the highest geek-attractor-factor of any 'terminal' ever made! DEC GT40, ca. 1972: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/dec/gt40/ I suspect that the Imlac was directly responsible for inspiring DEC to produce the GT40. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Oct 12 21:00:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Any other good examples of stuff that is trivial to do at the prompt, but > > difficult to do "on the desktop"? On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > Ooooh, hate to tell you this, Fred, but it totally depends on the tools > you have. > I offer the following evidence in counter to your example: > http://www.bears.org/~red/nowhere/FileMerge.app.tiff I NEVER said that there weren't third party products available. I ALSO NEVER said that there weren't also tasks that were more suited to the "desktop" than to the CLI. Those are obvious. The query was for which tasks would be good examples to show that the CLI was still needed, or at least still useful, when running Windoze. Does that program compare two files? The parts of it that were successful in loading made no mention of file compare. (It reported an "internal error") File compare was merely an example that the "desktop" in MICROS~1 OS's does NOT provide all and every capability that had previously been provided in the CLI. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Oct 12 21:05:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: NOTE: I am NOT implying that it isn't POSSIBLE to have a "desktop" with full functionality, merely that with WINDOZE it is sometimes useful or necessary to use the command line. From foo at siconic.com Sat Oct 12 21:31:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: latest find... In-Reply-To: <01f901c2722f$77451280$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > A Mattel Aquarius. It's not something that I would have normally picked > up, but it seemed to be reasonalbly complete, CPU, mini expander, > printer, tape deck, RAM cart, and a half-dozen carts. Most in original > boxes, if not packing. After reading all the "coming soon"'s and "under > development"'s, all I'm really missing is a few carts and the 16K RAM > cart (the one I've got is 4K). Alas, the thrift store I found it at has > succumbed to the parts-are-worth-more-than-the-whole, and each piece was > priced seperately. I haven't added up the total yet. :/ That's an incredibly nice setup. It entails everything I had at the time I sold my Aquarius to fund the purchase of my first Apple ][+. A lot of the stuff that Aquarius promised never came out. However, I did just buy a modem off of eBay. And I missed (by a couple hundred dollars) an incredible auction that include the ultra-mega-rare Aquarius disk drive (3" mechanism) and 4-color printer. If I had more money I would have bid more (it ended up being something like US$350). There are only two Aquarius disk drives that I know to exist. I do have the even rarer Aquarius II, but I really want the disk drive (and I know a certain someone on this list who has the 4-color printer ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Oct 12 21:33:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: IN STYLE... THE SEX TRACKER! In-Reply-To: <001601c2724e$4b663440$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Sue & Francois wrote: > > I went into an ice cream shop in Mexico and one of the flavors was > > "Viagra". I bought a cup but it didn't do anything. > > Well you know: it doesn't always work. Hopefully you can find contentment > with something else :) It was probably better that it didn't work because I wouldn't have been able to do anything with my new found virility right about then as I was about to board a ferry for Cozumel ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Oct 12 21:36:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: <3DA84AFB.30228.879002A@localhost> References: <3DA782E8.10643.56B57D6@localhost> <3DA84AFB.30228.879002A@localhost> Message-ID: <1820.4.20.168.134.1034476672.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Otter" wrote: > I was finally able to get a good look at the back. It is an IBM > 5120. There's four ports on the back; 2 DB-25 female, 1 female port > that looks like an AUI port, and a BNC connector. I just did a > lengthy search via Google, and so far have been able to find any > actual specs on this beast. But I'm guessing that one of the DB-25 > ports is RS-232, and the other is probably a parallel port of some > sort. No, the 5120 doesn't have parallel ports. They would both be serial, although it's quite possible that one is synchronous. > So, the 5120, if my guesses are correct about the ports, will serve > fine as a control console for the Cromemco System Two. The 5120 is an interesting machine, and I very much want one; it's a 5110 repackaged into the all-in-one unit, and depending on the model has BASIC, APL, or both in ROM. The 5110/5120 is a somewhat improved version of the 5100, with better language interpreters and more I/O capabilities. But it would make an absolutely *terrible* terminal. It only has 16*64 video, and unless you got the terminal software with it, you'll have to write your own. In BASIC or APL, depending on which model you have. I seriously doubt that it can keep up at 9600 bps or faster; as a terminal they were normally only used for dialup at 300 bps or slower. It's full of proprietary IBM chips, including the processor, so it's all but impossible to run anything but the standard BASIC and APL interpreters on it. In principle it is possible to load machine code from disk (there's some on the diagnostics disk), but it's not documented so very little assembly code was every written for it by anyone outside IBM. From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Oct 12 21:37:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal At&t/WE Blit In-Reply-To: <001301c27242$5e66d240$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Heinz Wolter wrote: > I'd love to have one, never seen a live one - but > it was one of the experimental 68k based terms > brought to you by the makers of Unix(tm) ;) I think it uses a Ma Bell CPU, not a 68K... > > My fave terminal that I actually own is a working > VT05 (looks like a stingray) - a picture of a VT05can > be seen on some pdp11 handbooks, with the funky 60's > pedestal and matching chairs and DecBabes.. The V05 > predates even the VT52 abd VT100's, not much in the > way of control sequences - but hey it's got a 20mA loop > and a termcap for unix/linux ;) > > Heinz > > > > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > > > > How about the BBN BitGraph? > > > > > > VT-100, with a 'real' VT-100 keyboard, and Tektronics emulation, all > > > done on a 68000 > > > CPU. > > > > Now we're talking ! > > And where to get such a beast ? > > > > cheers > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Oct 12 21:40:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: References: <000901c271d6$01785ac0$5b4a3dcf@msed03> from "M H Stein" at Oct 12, 2 05:58:57 am Message-ID: <3694.4.20.168.134.1034476920.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > However, Tektronix told me that the life of the instrument ended some > years after the unit was discontinued (I think n was either 5 or > 10), which means you are not going to get a new transformer for your > 500 series now :-(. At least they didn't tell you that the life of the instrument ended when the transformer failed. In 1982 or so I tried to return some failed Verbatim Datalife 5.25-inch single-sided floppy disks which had a "lifetime warranty". Verbatim told me that if the disk wasn't working, it's lifetime had expired. I never bought another Verbatim product. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Oct 12 21:47:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes References: <000901c271d6$01785ac0$5b4a3dcf@msed03> from "M H Stein" at Oct 12, 2 05:58:57 am <3694.4.20.168.134.1034476920.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <042601c27263$10604ab0$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:42 PM Subject: Re: Vintage Scopes > > At least they didn't tell you that the life of the instrument ended > when the transformer failed. In 1982 or so I tried to return > some failed Verbatim Datalife 5.25-inch single-sided floppy disks which > had a "lifetime warranty". Verbatim told me that if the disk wasn't > working, it's lifetime had expired. I never bought another Verbatim > product. ROFLMAO. I've heard that punchline before, but I think this is the first time I've ever heard of it being used In Real Life. Maybe you paraphrased them? :) > > Bob From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Oct 12 21:55:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: <1820.4.20.168.134.1034476672.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3DA782E8.10643.56B57D6@localhost> <3DA84AFB.30228.879002A@localhost> <1820.4.20.168.134.1034476672.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1033.4.20.168.134.1034477821.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote about the idea "Otter" had of using an IBM 5120 as a terminal: > But it would make an absolutely *terrible* terminal. It only has 16*64 > video, and unless you got the terminal software with it, you'll have to > write your own. In BASIC or APL, depending on which model you have. I > seriously doubt that it can keep up at 9600 bps or faster; as a > terminal they were normally only used for dialup at 300 bps or slower. And I forgot to mention the main reason that it makes an awful terminal: it uses three different character sets internally, NONE of which is even similar to ASCII (or even EBCDIC). Of course, a terminal program could translate the character codes for the matching characters, but just like the ASCII-EBCDIC translation problem, there are some printing characters and many control characters that have no equivalents. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Oct 12 21:59:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <042601c27263$10604ab0$7800a8c0@george> References: <000901c271d6$01785ac0$5b4a3dcf@msed03> <3694.4.20.168.134.1034476920.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <042601c27263$10604ab0$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: <2228.4.20.168.134.1034478049.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Robert F. Schaefer" wrote: > ROFLMAO. I've heard that punchline before, but I think this is the > first time I've ever heard of it being used In Real Life. Maybe you > paraphrased them? :) I don't recall their exact wording, but they weren't trying to be the least bit subtle about it. They had no intention of honoring their warranty, and this was how they weaseled out of it. For some years I had good luck with Dysan diskettes, which were quite good. Then Dysan was acquired by another company, and the quality went seriously downhill. From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Oct 12 22:14:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <2228.4.20.168.134.1034478049.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: Two things: Dysan disks, while reliable, were considered incredibly abrasive. There was an independant study done by a drive manufacturer, Qume, IIRC, that strongly recommended not using Dysan. Verbatim diskettes were only used when you wanted to be sure no one, including yourself, would ever read the media again. Verbatim became better many years later, but they were left with a major stigma. Maxell was my personal media of choice. I used Maxell 8's, 5.25's, 3.5's, cassette, reel to reel, 4mm, 8mm, and on a few rare occasions, 9 track. I've had far fewer problems with Maxell media than anything I've ever used. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Smith Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 23:01 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Vintage Scopes "Robert F. Schaefer" wrote: > ROFLMAO. I've heard that punchline before, but I think this is the > first time I've ever heard of it being used In Real Life. Maybe you > paraphrased them? :) I don't recall their exact wording, but they weren't trying to be the least bit subtle about it. They had no intention of honoring their warranty, and this was how they weaseled out of it. For some years I had good luck with Dysan diskettes, which were quite good. Then Dysan was acquired by another company, and the quality went seriously downhill. From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Oct 12 22:17:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > In 1972? I got a military surplus Tektronix scope. I think that the model > number was 512. The oldest Tek I ever owned was a real oddball called a 514AD. I sold it to a Tek collector. It was clearly an mid or early 50s type. Regarding military scopes - BE CAREFUL. First, a new hamfest find may look like a Tektronix, but it actally may be a Lavoie. These scope SUCK in a big way - unstable, unreliable copies. The best way to make sure of the make is to see if it actually says "Tektronix" on it or if it has Tek's manuafacturers code (a five digit number or four letter contractor code I do not have handy). I think Hickock made some bad copies as well. Also, many scopes made for the military (most are AN/USM-somethings) look like civilian models, but often have something deleted from the design. Most of the time this is not a big deal, but if you have a choice of the military or the civilian models, ditch the one in uniform. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sat Oct 12 22:25:01 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: <1033.4.20.168.134.1034477821.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <1820.4.20.168.134.1034476672.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3DA884F1.11929.95B71CE@localhost> On 12 Oct 2002 at 19:57, Eric Smith wrote: > I wrote about the idea "Otter" had > of using an IBM 5120 as a terminal: > > But it would make an absolutely *terrible* terminal. It only has > > 16*64 video, and unless you got the terminal software with it, > > you'll have to write your own. In BASIC or APL, depending on which > > model you have. I seriously doubt that it can keep up at 9600 bps or > > faster; as a terminal they were normally only used for dialup at 300 > > bps or slower. > > And I forgot to mention the main reason that it makes an awful > terminal: it uses three different character sets internally, NONE of > which is even similar to ASCII (or even EBCDIC). > > Of course, a terminal program could translate the character codes for > the matching characters, but just like the ASCII-EBCDIC translation > problem, there are some printing characters and many control > characters that have no equivalents. Thanks for the heads-up. The 5120 is hereby vetoed as a candidate for the Cromemco terminal. :) I still plan on getting her connected to my network somehow...eventually...one of these days. One of our Kaypro II systems may serve as the Cromemco's console instead. Or, even though it may cause a loss of geek points; I might just build a very minimalist 386 or 486 system from spare parts I have lying about here, set it up with FreeDOS or MINIX, and make that the console. Either of these possibilities would still be only temporary, and would eventually be replaced with a genuine Cromemco Smart Terminal. :) -- Scarletdown From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Oct 12 22:26:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <20021010100444.A25814@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: > No, those units were the Fuzzballs. (I think the hardware name > inspired the softtware.) Amonst my junk is a PDP-11/23 with an MS connector on the back prominently labeled "IMP". Inside is a special 2 board cardset that acts as the network interface - a 2901 based thing, probably more powerful than the PDP-11. I would like to find out more information on this cardset - it is not from DEC and is probably a low run custom job by some long gone shop. Sorry, that is just about all I know about it. One of the more interesting things about the PDP-11/23 is that it was never used. The little bags of parts and things are still wrapped onto the chassis, as they were the day they left the factory. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Oct 12 22:38:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > So, the IMPs they built would be the first network interface, right? The > precurser to the present-day NIC. Nahhh...evrybody knows that the first real network was Ma Bell... > I wonder if any of those are still > around... Or if they're even used once in a while... Until quite recently, the oldest parts of the Internet were some NSFnet (ANS) era links. These are now gone. The old APRAnet (where IMPs lived) links died years ago. There are some private WANs that (at least fairly recently) use very old technology. One of the sites I frequented (3 or 4 years ago) had a bunch of blinkenlight HP minis used as NICs. Another used IBM S/1s. I never found out who these machines belonged to. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Oct 12 23:41:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 XMI-2 bus questions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is it possible to run older the older 6000-200/300/400 (5V) XMI bus processors in an XMI-2 bus system? Normally one would have 6000-500/600 (3.3V) CPUs in this backplane, but I'm under the impression that you can still use other 5V XMI modules. I was wondering if this also holds true for trying to use the older 5V CPUs. Obviously this would be less desirable from a performance and possibly a power consumption standpoint; I'm just curious to know if it's possible. -brian. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sat Oct 12 23:54:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021013045546.19079.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> I second the Maxell comments. Their cassette mechanisms were, and are, superior, and the media itself would _clearly_ outlast anything else I've ever used (disks and casettes). Even their 3.5" media was very good mechanically. I routinely listen to 20 year old Maxell tapes I havent burned CD's of yet. Definitely worth the slight extra cost. --- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > Two things: Dysan disks, while reliable, were > considered incredibly > abrasive. There was an independant study done by a > drive manufacturer, > Qume, IIRC, that strongly recommended not using > Dysan. Verbatim diskettes > were only used when you wanted to be sure no one, > including yourself, would > ever read the media again. Verbatim became better > many years later, but > they were left with a major stigma. > > Maxell was my personal media of choice. I used > Maxell 8's, 5.25's, 3.5's, > cassette, reel to reel, 4mm, 8mm, and on a few rare > occasions, 9 track. > I've had far fewer problems with Maxell media than > anything I've ever used. > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Eric Smith > Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 23:01 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Vintage Scopes > > > "Robert F. Schaefer" wrote: > > ROFLMAO. I've heard that punchline before, but I > think this is the > > first time I've ever heard of it being used In > Real Life. Maybe you > > paraphrased them? :) > > I don't recall their exact wording, but they weren't > trying to be the > least bit subtle about it. They had no intention of > honoring their > warranty, and this was how they weaseled out of it. > > For some years I had good luck with Dysan diskettes, > which were quite > good. Then Dysan was acquired by another company, > and the quality > went seriously downhill. > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From red at bears.org Sun Oct 13 00:05:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I NEVER said that there weren't third party products available. Hang on, it wasn't my intention to get your dander up. > I ALSO NEVER said that there weren't also tasks that were more suited to > the "desktop" than to the CLI. Those are obvious. The query was for > which tasks would be good examples to show that the CLI was still needed, > or at least still useful, when running Windoze. The problem with that, IMO, is that none of the tools that ship with Windows, CLI or otherwise, are particularly robust, or even suited to any but the simplest of the most basic tasks. In the general case I think the point that is more useful to illustrate is "use the appropriate tool for the job". Using two "notepad" windows side by side is clearly NOT the appropriate tool to compare two files. "comp" may not be it, either, depending on the nature of the differences and how you intend to utilize the information about those differences, but still it's a lot better suited than the former example. Microsoft may even provide a graphical version of 'diff' as a part of Visual Studio. The last time I used MSVC, I was not what you might call a "sophisticated user", though, so I'm not sure about that. > Does that program compare two files? > The parts of it that were successful in loading made no mention of file > compare. (It reported an "internal error") You lost me. Which program? FileMerge is an app that ships with the developer option for NEXTSTEP and provides a combination of functionality offered by the standard UNIX utilities 'diff' and 'patch'. I hope you weren't trying to execute the .tiff screen capture that the URL pointed to, as an application binary... > File compare was merely an example that the "desktop" in MICROS~1 OS's > does NOT provide all and every capability that had previously been > provided in the CLI. I don't think anybody would argue that it does. Clearly the CLI doesn't provide all the capabilities offered by the GUI either, but I know you weren't saying that. I mean, Photoshop on the Mac supports multiprocessor systems, even though MacOS 9 doesn't. Clearly it would've been easier on Adobe if it had, but that feature is present in Photoshop just the same. It's all about the tools! ok r. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Oct 13 00:12:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: My First S-100 System In-Reply-To: <3DA84AFB.30228.879002A@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Otter wrote: > Most of the cards were missing all of their socketed chips, and due to > the afore-mentioned need of cash, I put them up on eBay yesterday. > Since the majority of the cards are missing their chips, I figured I'd > go ahead and get rid of them and when I can afford to start collecting > the higher end stuff one of these days, I would reacquire them then, > only fully functional. Apparently someone thinks he will be able to do > something with some of them, as the 3-Pack does have its opening $15 bid > on it. :) Too bad they are already up on eBay, because you'd likely be able to find someone here that would have a listing of which chips each card needs. Most of the chips would be easy to obtain, and replacing those missing chips should be far less expensive than buying functional cards. Whoever buys your cards on eBay knows they are getting a steal... -Toth From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Oct 13 00:13:00 2002 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:56 2005 Subject: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - anyone? Message-ID: <012401c27277$f14375c0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi Sorry, I know this is quite off topic but I know a lotta people here accumulate tons of stuff with time (like me) and there is a good chance some will have this... Looking for these for an older Apple system...32megs or 64megs 3.3v edo 2k refresh 168pins... Will trade for vintage/semi-recent/recent stuff - I have tons : networking, DEC, Sun, SGI, Apple, 8-16 bit hobby micros etc... - Ask Thanks Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 13 00:23:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - anyone? In-Reply-To: <012401c27277$f14375c0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> References: <012401c27277$f14375c0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <34150.64.169.63.74.1034486676.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Looking for these for an older Apple system...32megs or 64megs 3.3v edo > 2k refresh 168pins... I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but older Apple systems don't take DIMMs, or even SIMMs. :-) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Oct 13 00:43:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - anyone? In-Reply-To: <34150.64.169.63.74.1034486676.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <012401c27277$f14375c0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> <012401c27277$f14375c0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: >> Looking for these for an older Apple system...32megs or 64megs 3.3v edo >> 2k refresh 168pins... > >I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but older Apple systems don't >take DIMMs, or even SIMMs. :-) It also might be a good idea to note which Apple system you're looking for this memory for. Some of them use 168-pin DIMM's that are 5V. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Oct 13 00:47:00 2002 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - anyone? References: <012401c27277$f14375c0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> <34150.64.169.63.74.1034486676.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <013201c2727c$b561ec80$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 1:24 AM Subject: Re: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - anyone? > > Looking for these for an older Apple system...32megs or 64megs 3.3v edo > > 2k refresh 168pins... > > I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but older Apple systems don't > take DIMMs, or even SIMMs. :-) I know... But the system in question is not quite "that old".... Maybe I should of said "Apple MAC sytstem"...or "older MAC".... Anyways....what I wrote is exactly what I am looking for.... Thanks Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sun Oct 13 02:44:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal At&t/WE Blit In-Reply-To: <001301c27242$5e66d240$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> References: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> <3DA82F1A.2020501@tiac.net> <3DA849F8.3E846E4C@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021013174312.02617598@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 06:54 PM 12/10/2002 -0400, Heinz Wolter wrote: >My fave terminal that I actually own is a working >VT05 (looks like a stingray) - a picture of a VT05can >be seen on some pdp11 handbooks, with the funky 60's >pedestal and matching chairs and DecBabes.. The V05 >predates even the VT52 abd VT100's, not much in the >way of control sequences - but hey it's got a 20mA loop >and a termcap for unix/linux ;) I wish I had a VT05 - I spent a lot of time programming on a DECsystem-10 with it. In fact we hacked a copy of VTEDIT to automatically save files you were editing every 5 minutes as at one stage we had a slightly unreliable version of the monitor installed. The only problem with a VT05 is that it is an upper/lower case terminal with uppercase only display. This lead to interesting problems with earlier versions of tops-10 which didn't understand lower case versions of commands: .dir ?dir? Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Oct 13 03:36:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - anyone? In-Reply-To: <013201c2727c$b561ec80$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> References: <012401c27277$f14375c0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> <34150.64.169.63.74.1034486676.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021013013926.00ab3360@mail.zipcon.net> Which PowerMac is it? I thought they all could use FPM..... At 01:52 AM 10/13/02 -0400, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Eric Smith" >To: >Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 1:24 AM >Subject: Re: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - >anyone? > > > > > Looking for these for an older Apple system...32megs or 64megs 3.3v edo > > > 2k refresh 168pins... > > > > I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but older Apple systems don't > > take DIMMs, or even SIMMs. :-) > >I know... > >But the system in question is not quite "that old".... >Maybe I should of said "Apple MAC sytstem"...or "older MAC".... >Anyways....what I wrote is exactly what I am looking for.... > >Thanks >Claude >http://computer_collector.tripod.com From spedraja at ono.com Sun Oct 13 03:41:42 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Conseil request about some systems I can obtain Message-ID: <156001c27294$9a1ccc20$13912a3e@sergio> Hello. Is possible (ONLY possible by now) that I could obtain these equipment: * 1 Serie/1 (little size serie) * 1 IBM RT (with BSC connection to...) * 1 IBM S/370 4361 with a couple of disks of 25 kilos, one 3279 console and one 3174 terminals controller * 1 PDP system (used for instrumentation controlling, unknown model yet) * 1 CP/M S-100 system (unknown model yet) * Software and Documentation All items are stopped from two years ago. Some of them are stored in a great general store of the company who wants get rid of them. With independence of the conservation state of all the stuff. What preventions must I have about the management of these computers ? My panic comes about a possible damage of the items in the moment of start up them. I should agree any comments. Thanks and Greetings. Sergio From spedraja at ono.com Sun Oct 13 03:54:13 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Sorry, three messages of the same :-( Message-ID: <156f01c27296$7933e460$13912a3e@sergio> Sorry, a mistake sending the message three times :-( Sergio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021013/ba570071/attachment.html From spedraja at ono.com Sun Oct 13 04:10:13 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Test. Ignore Message-ID: <15ae01c27298$aed9cce0$13912a3e@sergio> Thanks. Sergio. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021013/e33dd194/attachment.html From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Oct 13 06:05:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: latest find... References: Message-ID: <043901c272a8$95fa8290$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:33 PM Subject: Re: latest find... > > That's an incredibly nice setup. It entails everything I had at the time > I sold my Aquarius to fund the purchase of my first Apple ][+. I don't feel so bad now. Still not going to add up the total. Whoever runs the thrift stores in Texas should move up here. :/ > > A lot of the stuff that Aquarius promised never came out. However, I did > just buy a modem off of eBay. And I missed (by a couple hundred dollars) > an incredible auction that include the ultra-mega-rare Aquarius disk drive > (3" mechanism) and 4-color printer. If I had more money I would have bid > more (it ended up being something like US$350). There are only two > Aquarius disk drives that I know to exist. The modem would be neat to have. I wasn't sure if it had been released. I'm missing the so-called printer cable, but I now believe it's merely a three-conductor headphone cable. Can anyone confirm this? > > I do have the even rarer Aquarius II, but I really want the disk drive > (and I know a certain someone on this list who has the 4-color printer ;) > > Sellam Ismail Bob From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Oct 13 08:21:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation References: Message-ID: <3DA973C9.909D7026@compsys.to> >"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > NOTE: > I am NOT implying that it isn't POSSIBLE to have a "desktop" with full > functionality, merely that with WINDOZE it is sometimes useful or > necessary to use the command line. Jerome Fine replies: Another example is when I use GHOST. Normally, GHOST must be used at the CLI and even booted from the A: floppy drive. However, it is also possible to do certain functions under Windoze which don't require booting from the A: floppy drive - although officially Semantic does NOT support them except when they are executed after booting from the A: floppy drive. On those occasions, if any of the switches are required, executing from the CLI is the only way rather than using the mouse and clicking on the file GHOST.exe to initiate running thE program. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Oct 13 08:24:24 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: <200210122336.TAA65858204@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3DA9741D.1D10542B@compsys.to> >Megan wrote: > >DEC GT40. That's a PDP11/05 (with real core memory) and a VT11 vector > >display board set in a desktop case with a monitor on top and a separate > >keyboard). 3 user input devices -- the keyboard, a light pen and the > >lights-n-switches panel. > I wish I had one... I'm trying to get the hardware I need to at > least put a VT11 on an 11/05 or 11/34a so I can get spacewar > running... As I mentioned in a prior post, I found the DR11C > which has the original spacewar control boxes we used at WPI > back in the later 70s. I also found the source for the spacewar > we played -- written by a friend of mine who was also a student > at WPI... Jerome Fine replies: While I have a number of versions of the source for SST (Super Star Trek) which was first written around the same time, I don't think I have the FORTRAN IV source for the SST.SAV and SST.DOC files (well obviously I do have the source for the DOC file since that is the source) that were also released around 1979 as well. Those two files are at dbit under games for RT-11 unless you want me to e-mail them. Might you know where the FORTRAN IV source for that version might be found. Also, I suspect that the 1979 version of SST must have been compiled using V3.0x of RT-11. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Oct 13 08:27:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: <200210120457.g9C4vHa04312@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3DA9753E.9819BFF2@compsys.to> >"Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I presume the LK201 and the LK401 are plug compatible? > > Also, what are the actual differences and why do you prefer > > the LK401? > Yes, they are compatable/interchangable. I've ended up with a LK201 > attached to the VT420 on my PDP-11/73 somehow, but the rest of the VT420's > I'm using have LK401's. I prefer the LK401's as they 'feel' better to me. > I think the keys are slightly different in shape/angle. I just wish they > had the flap that at least some LK201's have to put the piece of cardboard > that shows what the function keys are mapped to. Jerome Fine replies: While I was in the basement this morning trying for the 99th time to recover some more bad blocks from an RK05 pack, I noticed an LK401 keyboard that I acquired about two years ago when I also acquired some BA23 boxes that were about to be tossed as well. My eye sight may be failing, but for the FIRST time, I just noticed that the LK401 keyboard has TWO ALT KEYS!!! WHAT are they doing there and WHAT are they used for? And what function do they have?????? Anyone, PLEASE. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From guerney at bigpond.com Sun Oct 13 08:30:01 2002 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: latest find... References: Message-ID: <004101c272bc$63bddac0$7937fea9@Guerney> Sellam, Does your count of 2 Aquarius disk drives include the one I have here in Brisbane, Australia? We have communicated about several things over the years, but I can not remember if the Aquarius came up. What is particularly interesting about the one I have, perhaps, is the serial number RH0100001. I know these numbers can be misleading, but it certainly looks like a low number! The disk manual is just a set of photocopied pages. There are a total of 7 AQ-DOS commands (DIR, INIT, SAVE, LOAD, KILL, WRITE, DISKCOPY). The DOS has a MicroSoft copyright. Each side of the 3"(?) floppy holds 51,200 bytes which means 102,400 bytes alltogether (which is exactly 100K). This was one of my first ever vintage purchases, from a local classified ad, and the whole Aquarius kit including the drive cost me $A20. At the time I had no idea how rare the floppy drive was, but I soon found out as I started to investigate it. I would love to know how it got to this city. Cheers Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 12:33 PM Subject: Re: latest find... > A lot of the stuff that Aquarius promised never came out. However, I did > just buy a modem off of eBay. And I missed (by a couple hundred dollars) > an incredible auction that include the ultra-mega-rare Aquarius disk drive > (3" mechanism) and 4-color printer. If I had more money I would have bid > more (it ended up being something like US$350). There are only two > Aquarius disk drives that I know to exist. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 13 08:53:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: <200210120502.g9C52Ad04550@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20021013135422.50776.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Solaris, and the max memory is 64MB except for the SPARC 2 which can > > take 128MB with a rare and expensive add-in board. > > Isn't that 96MB with a rare and expensive add-in board, and 128MB with an > EVEN rarer and expensive daughter board for the rare and expensive add-in > board. Fair enough. I don't have one, so I only know about them from the Hardware FAQ. When I needed/wanted to move up from 64MB, I went to an LX and then a Classic (backwards, yes, I know, but the original motherboard _and_ a replacement died in my LX - one the SCSI bus gave out, the other is now DOA) That's all been retired in favor of my current SPARC5/110. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 13 09:08:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L troubleshooting (was Re: New acquisition, and question) In-Reply-To: <20021012011712.46276.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021013140914.30155.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Loboyko Steve wrote: > On the FOCAL issue, I think I read that FOCAL can't > load text very quickly - you have to stop and start > the tape every line or two. An ASR-33 for DEC hardware has a "reader run" relay and current loop. The CPU steps the reader one character at a time to prevent this sort of thing. My ASR-33 _is_ one of these. > I have noticed this with > my PDP/8e clone and not-very-fast (around 100 CPS) > paper tape reader. It may use its own intepreter to > store coding in RAM, so it might be very slow in this > area. The DEC highspeed reader controls the tape feed, just like a TTY. This sort of thing was a problem in the old days, so DEC engineered solutions for it. > If you can load FOCAL itself in via paper tape, > this kind of proves that the PTR itself is OK. The PTR itself is OK. Where I suspect the problem is in the CPU. The BIN loader (which loads FOCAL) does not use a wide range of instructions. I expect that I have a dirty card edge or blown gate that is causing less-common instructions to fail in interesting ways. I need to sit down with the diag tapes (which I have) and the instructions (which I also have) and run this box through its paces, one paper tape at a time. > --- Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Got some minor processor glitch I haven't tracked > > down yet... I get the FOCAL prompt, but it won't load > > Hammurabi... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Sun Oct 13 09:25:01 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: LK401 keyboard [was: Re: Favorite terminal] References: <200210120457.g9C4vHa04312@shell1.aracnet.com> <3DA9753E.9819BFF2@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3DA98229.58B01035@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> "Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > > My eye sight may be failing, but for the FIRST time, I just > noticed that the LK401 keyboard has TWO ALT KEYS!!! > WHAT are they doing there and WHAT are they used for? > And what function do they have?????? Anyone, PLEASE. They are defined by the application. In other words, they have no local function, and they don't modify other keys by default. The VT420 supports Key Position Mode, in which keys send ISO 9995 key position codes (A01, C99, etc.) instead of ASCII/ISO Latin-1 codes. In this mode, the "modifier" keys, Ctrl, both Shifts and both Alts, send status codes for key up and key down events. - Paul From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Oct 13 09:30:00 2002 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - anyone? References: <012401c27277$f14375c0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> <34150.64.169.63.74.1034486676.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021013013926.00ab3360@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <002701c272c5$bd490c00$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> These would be likely pulls from any of the following: PowerMAC 4400 or Motorola Starmax 3000,4000,5000 or 5500 series Claude ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Reed" To: Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 4:39 AM Subject: Re: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - anyone? > Which PowerMac is it? I thought they all could use FPM..... > > At 01:52 AM 10/13/02 -0400, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Eric Smith" > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 1:24 AM > >Subject: Re: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - > >anyone? > > > > > > > > Looking for these for an older Apple system...32megs or 64megs 3.3v edo > > > > 2k refresh 168pins... > > > > > > I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but older Apple systems don't > > > take DIMMs, or even SIMMs. :-) > > > >I know... > > > >But the system in question is not quite "that old".... > >Maybe I should of said "Apple MAC sytstem"...or "older MAC".... > >Anyways....what I wrote is exactly what I am looking for.... > > > >Thanks > >Claude > >http://computer_collector.tripod.com > From jruschme at netzero.net Sun Oct 13 09:44:01 2002 From: jruschme at netzero.net (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Sun clones, was Re: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: <3DA899C5.7030400@tiac.net> Message-ID: > From: Bob Shannon > Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 5:53 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Sun clones, was Re: Sun Sparc ID > > > I see people on the list understand these little pizza-box machines. > I'll have to confess to total ignorance of > the Sun workstations (having been a Domain OS user), but while removing > some test equipment that had been left behind when a large company > moved, I grabbed the following Sun clones: > > (they need homes, as the space they are taking up is worth more to me > than they are...) > > Axil 320, no so loaded, but interesting. > > The motherboard on the 320 is interesting, the simm slots have > extensions for even wider simm modules. There are four of these > extensions but only 2 are populated with contacts, each adding 36 > contacts to the simm slot. I've never seen a simm like this. The simm > modules installed do not use these extended contacts. It sounds a lot like the DIMM sockets in the Sparc 20. If so, the slots with the extensions can accomodate three kinds of DIMMS: - Regular Sparc 10/20/... memory DIMMS - 4mb or 8mb VDIMM (VRAM for onboard 24-bit framebuffer) - 2mv NVRAM DIMM used by the Prestoserve software I'm curious... how much do you want for it? <<>> From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Oct 13 09:48:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Sun clones, was Re: Sun Sparc ID References: <3DA899C5.7030400@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3DA9888C.3080309@tiac.net> I seem to have forgotten to say where the Axil machines are located! I'm in centeral Massachusettes, about 30 minutes north of Worcester, or a bit over an hour west of Boston. I've set no specific asking prices. Any offers or trades will be welcome, but I'd really rather not have to ship these things, as their size and shape are a very poor fit for any common boxes. I've got nothing in them, and I don't beleive they are at all valuable. So if someone is going to come and take them away I'll be happy to see them go. If I have to try to pack and ship them then there is a hasstle-factor and trades become more attractive. You know, I really ought to get my collection into a more presentable state, should near-by collectors want to drop in to see some of my less-common working systems. I've been working on a sort of spring-cleaning, well, since last spring anyway. This is why all sorts of things I'd nearly fogotten (like lisp machines, 1801's, RM503's, etc) have been turning up and are being offered on the list. Maybe by next spring it might be nearly presentable! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Oct 13 10:03:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de "Re: Sun Sparc ID" (Oct 12, 21:00) References: <200210121900.g9CJ0XI13210@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <10210130133.ZM924@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 12, 21:00, jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > On 11 Oct, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Uses 30 pin parity memory. May not like 3 chip PC SIMMs. > May depend on the SIMMs / RAM chips and the refresh cycles they need. > My SS1+ was happy with 3 chip SIMMs. So was mine. It does depend on the refresh, though. That's why some older PCs also have trouble with some 3-chip 30-pin SIMMs. One of my friends had that problem. > > Prefers 9 chip SIMMs. Can take 1MB, probably takes 4MB (mine did). > All SPARCstations should be able to take 4 MB SIMMs as the SS1 can take > them. (According to the sun.hardware.FAQ file.) Yes, it does. I had an SS1 and still have an SS1+ that both have 4MB SIMMs, and I've seen an SS2 with 4MB SIMMs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From altertech at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Oct 13 10:27:00 2002 From: altertech at blueyonder.co.uk (Rob Hamadi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - anyone? In-Reply-To: <002701c272c5$bd490c00$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> References: <012401c27277$f14375c0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> <34150.64.169.63.74.1034486676.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021013013926.00ab3360@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021013160230.02716c50@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk> At 03:35 PM 10/13/02, Claude wrote: >These would be likely pulls from any of the following: > >PowerMAC 4400 or Motorola Starmax 3000,4000,5000 or 5500 series Or any UMAX clone (I think, now what did I stick in my S9000?). I've got two 32Mb ones, but I'm in the UK: not much good to you, I suppose, unless you're going to VCF in which case I'd be happy to bring them over - swap em for something? Datasheet at: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/productfolder.jhtml?genericPartNumber=tm4ep64bpn For reference the following text is taken from an advert placed by a chap in Peterboro, UK, who I've found to be a reliable supplier of memory for older macs. He trades on ebay as baggycat. "NB. The only Powermacs that require EDO or 2k memory are 54/5500, 64/6500, 20th Anniversary and they can only accept 64mb max size modules. All other Powermacs will treat EDO DRAM as FPM - except 7200, EDO will most likely fry your motherboard!." Rob From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Oct 13 11:56:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Amusing book cover Message-ID: <200210131640.g9DGeaRD050075@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Moonlighting With Your Personal Computer Waxman, Robert J. World Almanac Publications, 1984 ISBN 0-345-31652-5 What's so amusing? The cover photograph is of a Fortune 32:16, and placed to the left of the title and blurb "An Insider's Advice on How You Can Earn Thousands of Extra Dollars". Oh well, I thought it was funny. -Frank McConnell From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Oct 13 12:02:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: DEC stuff wanted.. Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FCBD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi all, Wheee.. thas been a loong weekend so far, trying to get all the piles of DEC stuff back into cabinets and in complete, working order... Then again, one can whine about that here, as we all do it, sometimes with grumbling wives and annoying kids in the dim background, but hey.. :) Anyway. Does anyone have (part of) the following items I could use to complete the 11/83 (BA123) box: - BA123 front plate saying "PDP-11/83" - mine says "MicroVAX II" - BA123 "front panel" switch set - I have one in, but kinda need two more, if they're around - *external* cable set for the tape unit - see below. I have an Emulex QT13 Pertec controller doing TSV05 emulation- runs well. However, for obvious reasons, the Cipher F880 tape drive is external, in a neat "tabletop" kind of box, even, with the two signal cables coming out and going into the back of the BA123, through one of the (now empty) faceplates. I'd like to replace that with a QT13 cab kit for BA123, and a cable I can plug into the Cipher and then into the cab kit thing, like I have for the (external) TK50 drive connected to my MicroPDP. I _know_ they exist, as I have seen them... just don't know where to look for these gadgets. Also, if anyone in Holland still has a couple of larger ESDI drives (600+ MB, similar to RA82) laying around.. pse contact me off-list.. I need one to emulate a RA82. Thanks, now back to my cabling issues here... :) --fred From ken at seefried.com Sun Oct 13 12:09:01 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal At&t/WE Blit In-Reply-To: <20021013132101.13806.62226.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021013132101.13806.62226.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20021013183857.11783.qmail@mail.seefried.com> > I'd love to have one, never seen a live one - but > it was one of the experimental 68k based terms > brought to you by the makers of Unix(tm) ;) While the BLIT was experimental (and contrary to other posters was 68000-based), it was commercialized as the AT&T 5620. It was the 5620 that was based on a WE processor. We had tons of them at Georgia Tech. The successor terminals (the 630 & 730) switched back to the 68000. Check the FAQ: http://www.bell-labs.com/user/dwd/5620faq.html Ken From jim at jkearney.com Sun Oct 13 12:32:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors References: <20021013132101.13806.62226.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20021013183857.11783.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <003001c272de$984d1590$1301090a@jkearney.com> I've been playing around with the Inverse Assembler toolkit for HP logic analyzers after Joe Rigdon asked me some questions about them recently. It's a neat capability; you write them in a simple language that gets compiled to some kind of intermediate code, and that is interpretable on just about any analyzer from the 1630A up. I've written one for the 8008, which I would be happy to make available to anyone interested. I'm wondering if anyone has any others, like the 6502, 8080, 6800 etc. Typically I think they came with the matching probe fixtures, but you only have to know what bits to hook for the status word in order to use them with the standard probes. There doesn't seem to be an archive on the net for these, aside from a few on Agilent's website. Jim From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 13 12:59:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: My First S-100 System In-Reply-To: <3DA84AFB.30228.879002A@localhost> from "Otter" at Oct 12, 2 04:16:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 622 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021013/776ccf99/attachment.ksh From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Oct 13 13:01:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Fortune 32:16 (was: Amusing book cover) In-Reply-To: <200210131640.g9DGeaRD050075@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 13 Oct 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > Moonlighting With Your Personal Computer > Waxman, Robert J. > World Almanac Publications, 1984 > ISBN 0-345-31652-5 > > What's so amusing? The cover photograph is of a Fortune 32:16, and > placed to the left of the title and blurb "An Insider's Advice on How > You Can Earn Thousands of Extra Dollars". Way Back When - I was sent by the rat-box computer store I was working for to attend the Fortune Service Seminar - to learn basic-level fixit stuff. It was a one-week class in another city, rather expensive plus transportation and lodging.... not four months later they went belly up and no one would touch the remaining (expensive) machines left in stock... I still have the glossy silver-and-blue Certificate we got at the end of the class. They weren't badly built, IIRC - they were mechanically modular the way DEC stuff is, or the newer Mac G4s... the documentation was lucid and nicely done... the company just didn't make the cut. I've once in a while gotten the bug to get one - but I remind myself of the List of Lists of Projects.... Actually a similar thing went on with Molecular - which I thought were quite advanced machines for the time. We sold several of them, got horribly burnt when the one running a lawyer's office went irremedially casters-up: Molecular was on it's last legs and couldn't support it, and we ended up buying the machine back *and* providing another complete system free of charge. Store policy changed thereafter to "Never sell anything to any more Lawyers!" and then I left to go on to bigger and better things - swearing certainly to never, ever, ever again work any job having anything to do with Retail anything.... but I digress. > > Oh well, I thought it was funny. > It was such a snazzy name: Fortune 32:16. A business name - substantial, executive - not like having Fruit on your desk... or a business computer touted by... Charlie Chaplin???? Puh-leeeze! Cheers John From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Oct 13 13:11:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: <200210122336.TAA65858204@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <200210131812.OAA66416931@shell.TheWorld.com> >Jerome Fine replies: > >While I have a number of versions of the source for SST (Super >Star Trek) which was first written around the same time, I don't >think I have the FORTRAN IV source for the SST.SAV and >SST.DOC files (well obviously I do have the source for the >DOC file since that is the source) that were also released >around 1979 as well. Those two files are at dbit under games >for RT-11 unless you want me to e-mail them. > >Might you know where the FORTRAN IV source for that >version might be found. Also, I suspect that the 1979 version >of SST must have been compiled using V3.0x of RT-11. Your message was in response to my message about Spacewar on a GT40... I wasn't talking about Star Trek or Super Star Trek. They are entirely different games... I've not seen SST for quite a while... I might have a copy somewhere in my disk archives, but they are not currently accessible (being in storage)... I'm pretty sure there is a copy *somewhere* on the net... Megan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 13 13:13:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <3694.4.20.168.134.1034476920.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Oct 12, 2 07:42:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1013 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021013/73587b5d/attachment.ksh From cb at mythtech.net Sun Oct 13 13:17:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - anyone? Message-ID: >Sorry, I know this is quite off topic but I know a lotta people here >accumulate tons of stuff with time (like me) and there is a good chance some >will have this... > >Looking for these for an older Apple system...32megs or 64megs 3.3v edo 2k >refresh 168pins... > >Will trade for vintage/semi-recent/recent stuff - I have tons : networking, >DEC, Sun, SGI, Apple, 8-16 bit hobby micros etc... - Ask They won't be willing to trade... but www.18004memory.com (Coast to Coast Memory) sells these. I just bought two 64 MB ones (these exact ones) for $23 each. I can't say for sure if they are new, or used (they don't differentiate on their site), but I do know that they test everything right before it is packaged for shipping, so it worked when it left their store. They also stand behind their chips, and will trade out anything that arrives non-functional (or if you bought the wrong chip). -chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Oct 13 13:19:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > Two things: Dysan disks, while reliable, were considered > incredibly abrasive. There was an independant study done by a drive > manufacturer, Qume, IIRC, that strongly recommended not using Dysan. > drive manufacturer, Qume, Makers of the Qume 142 : the "FIRST" "half height" 5.25" drive to be widely distributed; (I don't know who might have developed one earlier), the worst reliability of any drive EVER. Even worse than the BASF 2/3 height drive. IBM originally used the 142 in the "Portable" (Compaq wannabe) and the PCJr. ONE OF the major reasons for the release of PC-DOS 2.10 was that the 142 was so friggin slow that the OS had to change the seek time to allow for slower drives! I don't recall that study. Dysan disks were widely regarded as being the best, although many people felt that they were not AS MUCH BETTER as they claimed, nor worth their "premium price". > Verbatim diskettes were only used when you wanted to be sure no one, > including yourself, would ever read the media again. Verbatim became > better many years later, but they were left with a major stigma. Verbatim had a "short" period where they produced a lot of truly BAD batches, including some where the coating wore off of the mylar in record time. They were good BEFORE that time, and AFTER. But something like that is hard to live down. Once they fixed their problems (which they never admitted to), they over-overcompensated, and produced exceptionally good disks for a while. Wasn't "DATALIFE" trademark originated during that period, sort of as a promise that "these are not the same as the crap that we sold you last time"? > Maxell was my personal media of choice. I used Maxell 8's, 5.25's, 3.5's, > cassette, reel to reel, 4mm, 8mm, and on a few rare occasions, 9 track. > I've had far fewer problems with Maxell media than anything I've ever used. Maxell tended to be consistently good. But EVERY company occasionally puts out some bad ones. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Oct 13 13:23:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > In 1972? I got a military surplus Tektronix scope. I think that the model > > number was 512. On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > The oldest Tek I ever owned was a real oddball called a 514AD. I sold it > to a Tek collector. It was clearly an mid or early 50s type. About 5 years ago, I sold my 512 to a young man who was enthusiastically trying to teach himself elctronics. $1 He's still using it, but now also has a slightly newer one (with plugins!) From foo at siconic.com Sun Oct 13 13:44:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: latest find... In-Reply-To: <043901c272a8$95fa8290$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > The modem would be neat to have. I wasn't sure if it had been released. Me niether until I saw one on eBay. They come up from time to time. Mine was still shrink-wrapped even. There are a few sellers on eBay who seem to have bought out the remaining stock of Aquarius game carts when it was discontinued. They come shrink-wrapped. You can find them by searching on "mattel aquarius". > I'm missing the so-called printer cable, but I now believe it's merely a > three-conductor headphone cable. Can anyone confirm this? Me too. Notice that it uses two different sized jacks though. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 13 13:49:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: My First S-100 System In-Reply-To: References: <3DA84AFB.30228.879002A@localhost> from "Otter" at Oct 12, 2 04:16:59 pm Message-ID: <34493.64.169.63.74.1034535034.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Most S100 cards used only standard chips, and the manuals were normally > excellent giving full schematics (and programming data for PROMs/PALs if > any were used). Speaking of Cromemco cards, and only using "standard chips", does anyone have a source for the TMS3417, used on the Cromemco Dazzler? Google only turns up a single mention of it, on a German page. "Standard chips" aren't necessarily all that easy to find. (But much easier to find than gate arrays and other ASICs.) From foo at siconic.com Sun Oct 13 13:50:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: latest find... In-Reply-To: <004101c272bc$63bddac0$7937fea9@Guerney> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Phil Guerney wrote: > Does your count of 2 Aquarius disk drives include the one I have here in > Brisbane, Australia? We have communicated about several things over the > years, but I can not remember if the Aquarius came up. I don't know...where did you get your disk drive from? It doesn't surprise me a whole lot because that is where I got my Aquarius II from (by way of a friend). Andrew Davie (now in Tasmania) found two Aquarius II's for sale in a newspaper ad several years ago. My friend Doug found the Aquarius disk drive in a local electronics surplus shop in around 1997 or thereabouts. He traded that for an Aquarius II from Andrew plus some carthridges that enabled a Commodore 1541 to be connected to the Aquarius. I traded an ASR-33 for the Aquarius II. Andrew Davie recently sold the disk drive to someone else. I found his website. I don't think it was you or else I would have recognized the name. > What is particularly interesting about the one I have, perhaps, is the > serial number RH0100001. I know these numbers can be misleading, but it > certainly looks like a low number! It looks like the first! > The disk manual is just a set of photocopied pages. There are a total of 7 > AQ-DOS commands (DIR, INIT, SAVE, LOAD, KILL, WRITE, DISKCOPY). The DOS has > a MicroSoft copyright. Each side of the 3"(?) floppy holds 51,200 bytes > which means 102,400 bytes alltogether (which is exactly 100K). Interesting. > This was one of my first ever vintage purchases, from a local classified ad, > and the whole Aquarius kit including the drive cost me $A20. At the time I > had no idea how rare the floppy drive was, but I soon found out as I started > to investigate it. I would love to know how it got to this city. Me too! I wonder if maybe you bought it from the same fellow that Andrew got the Aquarius II's from? The Aquarius II was never officially released. The fellow Andrew bought them from was a developer writing some teletext software for it and so had some pre-release machines for development. However, they were production models, not prototypes. I imagine the disk drive went out to several developers as well. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 13 13:54:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Fortune 32:16 (was: Amusing book cover) In-Reply-To: References: <200210131640.g9DGeaRD050075@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <34496.64.169.63.74.1034535315.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> John Lawson wrote: > It was such a snazzy name: Fortune 32:16. A business name - > substantial, > executive - not like having Fruit on your desk... or a business computer > touted by... Charlie Chaplin???? Puh-leeeze! In the late 70s and early 80s, business people knew that computers were giant machines sequestered in a temple with raised access flooring, heavy- duty air conditioning, and their own priests and accolytes to keep the rabble away. So if you wanted to have any hope of selling small computers to business people, it was *essential* to make them seem friendly and approachable. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Oct 13 13:55:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > Hang on, it wasn't my intention to get your dander up. Not to worry > The problem with that, IMO, is that none of the tools that ship with > Windows, CLI or otherwise, are particularly robust, or even suited to any > but the simplest of the most basic tasks. DEBUG seems to be almost as good as earlier versions But I do agree, at least in principle, except that the tools that ship with the OS are THERE and AVAILABLE. It behooves one to know how to use them, even if somebody somewhere might have a better tool that could be obtained. There are better debuggers than DEBUG; but ANY PC that I sit down at HAS it. > In the general case I think the > point that is more useful to illustrate is "use the appropriate tool for > the job". exactly. and the task at hand is to refute the absurd notion that the WINDOZE desktop is "ALWAYS" appropriate, with EXAMPLE tasks. And to learn to use the tools that are present, in addition to seeking out other tools that might or might not be available. > > Does that program compare two files? > > The parts of it that were successful in loading made no mention of file > > compare. (It reported an "internal error") > You lost me. Which program? FileMerge is an app that ships with the > developer option for NEXTSTEP and provides a combination of functionality > offered by the standard UNIX utilities 'diff' and 'patch'. > I hope you weren't trying to execute the .tiff screen capture that the URL > pointed to, as an application binary... You gave "as examp0le" a URL; I trust you; so I pointed a browser in a fairly isolated machine at the URL that you posted. What came up was "IMAGING" program. > > File compare was merely an example that the "desktop" in MICROS~1 OS's > > does NOT provide all and every capability that had previously been > > provided in the CLI. > I don't think anybody would argue that it does. YES, THEY DO! (but not HERE) That is EXACTLY the issue. The original issue of the thread was that some beginners claim that there is no need for the CLI, and OBJECT to class time on it! > Clearly the CLI doesn't > provide all the capabilities offered by the GUI either, but I know you > weren't saying that. While YOU AND I agree to the obvious, the source of this subthread was to provide examples to refute the absurd assertion that the WINDOZE DESKTOP handles everything. The specific history of this thread is: STUDENT: Why do we have to do this DOS crap? Will it be on the FINAL? You can do everything in Windows XP by clicking on it! TEACHER: Think so? Here's a disk with two large files. Are they identical? Followed by my asking whether anybody had some suggestions for other simple tasks to make the point that the CLI, and the programs that come with it, has some usefulness of its own, and that there is a REASON why the CLI is still present in MICROS~1 OS's. > It's all about the tools! From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Oct 13 14:05:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - anyone? In-Reply-To: <013201c2727c$b561ec80$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: > > > Looking for these for an older Apple system...32megs or 64megs 3.3v edo > > > 2k refresh 168pins... > > I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but older Apple systems don't > > take DIMMs, or even SIMMs. :-) On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Claude.W wrote: > I know... > But the system in question is not quite "that old".... > Maybe I should of said "Apple MAC sytstem"...or "older MAC".... > Anyways....what I wrote is exactly what I am looking for.... I thought that the "older MAC"s used 64K DIPs - had they already abandoned DIPS in 1984? It would still be nice to SAY what model machine you are looking for; a model name or number is much clearer, and more likely to invoke a willingness to help, than describing some characteristics of the machine and refusing to identify it. But, in any case, what you're looking for is much too new for any Apple stuff that I have. Sorry. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Oct 13 14:13:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: latest find... References: Message-ID: <007d01c272ec$d3180410$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 2:45 PM Subject: Re: latest find... > On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > The modem would be neat to have. I wasn't sure if it had been released. > > Me niether until I saw one on eBay. They come up from time to time. Mine > was still shrink-wrapped even. There are a few sellers on eBay who seem > to have bought out the remaining stock of Aquarius game carts when it was > discontinued. They come shrink-wrapped. You can find them by searching > on "mattel aquarius". None current, and I didn't see your modem either. Might I inquire how much you paid for it? Judging from the prices on epay, it would seem that the whole *is* worth less than the parts. > > > I'm missing the so-called printer cable, but I now believe it's merely a > > three-conductor headphone cable. Can anyone confirm this? > > Me too. Notice that it uses two different sized jacks though. Hadn't yet. Found some reference that claims it's a subset of RS-232C, as in GND, Rx & Tx. Maybe I'll open 'em up and take a look. > > Sellam Ismail Bob From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sun Oct 13 14:13:28 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal At&t/WE Blit In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021013174312.02617598@kerberos.davies.net.au>; from Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au on Sun, Oct 13, 2002 at 05:45:32PM +1000 References: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> <3DA82F1A.2020501@tiac.net> <3DA849F8.3E846E4C@ecubics.com> <001301c27242$5e66d240$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> <4.3.2.7.2.20021013174312.02617598@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <20021013121458.A25829@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Sun, Oct 13, 2002 at 05:45:32PM +1000, Huw Davies wrote: > monitor installed. The only problem with a VT05 is that it > is an upper/lower case terminal with uppercase only display. > This lead to interesting problems with earlier versions of > tops-10 which didn't understand lower case versions of commands: > > .dir > ?dir? If the display was uppercase only, wouldn't that have been .DIR ?DIR? (and I can see how that would have driven even the most experienced person insane)? -- Derek From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Oct 13 14:20:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors References: <20021013132101.13806.62226.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20021013183857.11783.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <003001c272de$984d1590$1301090a@jkearney.com> Message-ID: <003701c272ed$9fe696a0$0101a8c0@jay> I have been looking for inverse assembler modules for my HP logic analyzer for some time, to no avail. Any chance I might be able to snag a copy of the Inverse Assembler toolkit? I'd dearly love to write up a module for the 2100 and/or 21MX.... Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kearney" To: Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 12:33 PM Subject: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors > I've been playing around with the Inverse Assembler toolkit for HP logic > analyzers after Joe Rigdon asked me some questions about them recently. > It's a neat capability; you write them in a simple language that gets > compiled to some kind of intermediate code, and that is interpretable on > just about any analyzer from the 1630A up. > > I've written one for the 8008, which I would be happy to make available to > anyone interested. I'm wondering if anyone has any others, like the 6502, > 8080, 6800 etc. Typically I think they came with the matching probe > fixtures, but you only have to know what bits to hook for the status word in > order to use them with the standard probes. There doesn't seem to be an > archive on the net for these, aside from a few on Agilent's website. > > Jim > > > From altertech at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Oct 13 14:31:00 2002 From: altertech at blueyonder.co.uk (Rob Hamadi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: British micros for sale / trade at VCF Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021013202247.02718010@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk> I thought it might be a nice idea to bring some 8 bit British micros to VCF. Having measured my suitcase & dug out my roll of bubble wrap here's what I reckon I can bring. The machines won't be boxed but I will bring power supplies (220V) for those that won't work off a generic PSU (Dragon, QL). The BBC has a built in PSU, the electrons need 19V and the spectra 9V. I'm open to offers, either money or kit, my aim is more to defray my airfair than to make a profit. Of course, if anyone's looking for anything in particular that's more common in the UK than the USA do let me know. Best regards Rob 3 off Acorn Electrons - working 6 off Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K rubber keys - 5 working, one with minor keyboard fault (B and N keys) 2 off Sinclair ZX Spectrum + 48K - one fully working, one with some keys not registering 2 off Dragon 32 - working 2 (or possibly 3) off Sinclair QL - all with some keys not registering. 1 off Acorn BBC Micro model B with DFS (floppy disk interface chip - less common) - working. I may be able to bring a drive as well. 1 off Cambridge Z88 Possibly 1 off Oric 1 From mtapley at swri.edu Sun Oct 13 14:56:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <20021012030101.98859.49253.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: >From: emanuel stiebler >what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? Textronix 4025. No color, but nice graphics, macros, screen scrollback, contained a Z-80 (or 2?) and 64k RAM back when that was actually an OK computer system. Intuitive graphics language. Very nice physically. Loved it. Can't find one, now... - Mark From roosmcd at dds.nl Sun Oct 13 15:30:00 2002 From: roosmcd at dds.nl (roosmcd@dds.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Contacting erikb@cyberspace.org In-Reply-To: <20021009035800.71368.18115.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021009035800.71368.18115.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1034540793.3da9d6f9eba78@webmail.dds.nl> Hello Erik, Your e-mail address "erikb@cyberspace.org" doesn't exist according to my server. Please let me know the correct address, so I can reply. greetings, Michiel ps. (almost) old-computer-related bit: I just got a Jamma-converter for CD-i players complete with snackbar-type quiz game. The questions are in German, but it's still great fun to play; especially since you get credits by just pressing a button instead of throwing money into the machine... From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Oct 13 15:55:01 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: Fortune 32:16 (was: Amusing book cover) In-Reply-To: John Lawson's message of "Sun, 13 Oct 2002 14:02:18 -0400 (EDT)" References: Message-ID: <200210132055.g9DKtIWQ054297@daemonweed.reanimators.org> John Lawson wrote: > On 13 Oct 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > > What's so amusing? The cover photograph is of a Fortune 32:16, and > > placed to the left of the title and blurb "An Insider's Advice on How > > You Can Earn Thousands of Extra Dollars". What I found amusing was the placement of a computer made by a company named "Fortune" next to those words. Not because of any particular failings of the company or its hardware. > Actually a similar thing went on with Molecular - which I thought were > quite advanced machines for the time. We sold several of them, got Molecular apparently did build some interesting machines, multiprocessor Z80 systems which were connected to an in-the-box CSMA/CD bus for communication with the computer that had disks attached. Haven't seen one but have heard about it from some folks I work with who used to work for Molecular or with their systems. > It was such a snazzy name: Fortune 32:16. A business name - substantial, > executive - not like having Fruit on your desk... or a business computer > touted by... Charlie Chaplin???? Puh-leeeze! Also a good way for one executive to tell his peers and underlings how much he could blow on a desk ornament. -Frank McConnell From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Oct 13 16:13:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:57 2005 Subject: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors References: <20021013132101.13806.62226.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20021013183857.11783.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <003001c272de$984d1590$1301090a@jkearney.com> <003701c272ed$9fe696a0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <3DA9E2CA.70306@tiac.net> There is a primative native disassembler for the HP 2100's. Its part of a cleaver little debug tool called OCTAPUS-C, which you can find a binary for on Terry's HP-IPL/OS web page, along with some documentation for it. Just in case your needing to disassemble something right away... Jay West wrote: >I have been looking for inverse assembler modules for my HP logic analyzer >for some time, to no avail. Any chance I might be able to snag a copy of the >Inverse Assembler toolkit? I'd dearly love to write up a module for the 2100 >and/or 21MX.... > >Jay West >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jim Kearney" >To: >Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 12:33 PM >Subject: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors > > >>I've been playing around with the Inverse Assembler toolkit for HP logic >>analyzers after Joe Rigdon asked me some questions about them recently. >>It's a neat capability; you write them in a simple language that gets >>compiled to some kind of intermediate code, and that is interpretable on >>just about any analyzer from the 1630A up. >> >>I've written one for the 8008, which I would be happy to make available to >>anyone interested. I'm wondering if anyone has any others, like the 6502, >>8080, 6800 etc. Typically I think they came with the matching probe >>fixtures, but you only have to know what bits to hook for the status word >> >in > >>order to use them with the standard probes. There doesn't seem to be an >>archive on the net for these, aside from a few on Agilent's website. >> >>Jim >> >> >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021013/65a9e43f/attachment.html From roosmcd at dds.nl Sun Oct 13 16:25:01 2002 From: roosmcd at dds.nl (roosmcd@dds.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Erikb has been found In-Reply-To: <20021009035800.71368.18115.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021009035800.71368.18115.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1034544131.3da9e403d5ae7@webmail.dds.nl> Hello, Erikb has already been contacted. Thanks! greetings, Michiel From jim at jkearney.com Sun Oct 13 16:37:02 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors References: <20021013132101.13806.62226.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20021013183857.11783.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <003001c272de$984d1590$1301090a@jkearney.com> <003701c272ed$9fe696a0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <006f01c27300$d30ec530$1301090a@jkearney.com> > for some time, to no avail. Any chance I might be able to snag a copy of the > Inverse Assembler toolkit? I'd dearly love to write up a module for the 2100 Right, I should have put that in the original posting... there are a few of Agilent's IA's at ftp://ftp.agilent.com/pub/callpub/ddt/IA/ and the toolkit is at ftp://ftp.agilent.com/pub/callpub/ddt/10391b/. Jim From altertech at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Oct 13 17:22:00 2002 From: altertech at blueyonder.co.uk (Rob Hamadi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Quite OT : Im looking for 168pin 3.3v edo 2k refresh dimms - anyone? In-Reply-To: <007e01c272d1$2b840980$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> References: <012401c27277$f14375c0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> <34150.64.169.63.74.1034486676.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021013013926.00ab3360@mail.zipcon.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20021013160230.02716c50@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021013230727.027259c0@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk> At 04:57 PM 10/13/02, you wrote: >The dimm must be 2k refresh. I dont wanna spend a lot on this. It is. >Its for a StarMAX 4000/160. I bought the box ram-less for $10CAN and now I >learn it might not roll OS8 but just 7.5....it might just be thrashed... It will run any OS from 7.5.3 through 9.1. See http://www.lowendmac.com/moto/4000.shtml >this would be my fastest mac in my "home-network" , replacing an old and >slow 6100/60... I know the feeling. Apart from the compact macs in my collection, I've got two powermacs on my lan. A dual 233MHz 604e running 9.1 and a 7300/166 running Yellow Dog Linux. >Think of what you might want (small item) in a trade for this... I don't know. An accelerator or Z80 card for an Apple II? Stuff for a TRS80 model 1 or 100? A NIC for a C64 (joking!)? Most of my stuff is 1980s or there abouts, space is at a premium in London so I don't have room for any of the bigger, older kit. Mail me off list with an offer of whatever you feel is appropriate. Best Regards Rob From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Oct 13 17:22:29 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes References: Message-ID: <007401c27307$380aea80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tony Duell wrote: > Being realistic, I didn't expect Tektronix to keep spare parts for 30 > year old instrumentes either.... I wonder if they've still got spares for the 46x series scopes, specifically the 466. I need a new front panel cover, accessory pouch (the one with the zip), scope probe, storage pouch (the one that bolts onto the top of the scope) and implosion guard (Perspex sheet that protects the CRT - mine has a scuff on it). Anyone know of a source for these parts? I've also heard that the 466 used some Tek-made ICs too, vertical driver or something like that. Anyone got some spares they feel like parting with? Just one final thing - my 466 has an "Xray radiation shielded" label on the back - was this put on by Tek before the scope left the factory or was it done by its previous owner? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Oct 13 17:49:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA9753E.9819BFF2@compsys.to>; from jhfinepw4z@compsys.to on Sun, Oct 13, 2002 at 15:29:34 CEST References: <200210120457.g9C4vHa04312@shell1.aracnet.com> <3DA9753E.9819BFF2@compsys.to> Message-ID: <20021013172759.K16770@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.10.13 15:29 Jerome H. Fine wrote: > My eye sight may be failing, but for the FIRST time, I just > noticed that the LK401 keyboard has TWO ALT KEYS!!! > WHAT are they doing there and WHAT are they used for? > And what function do they have?????? Anyone, PLEASE. I don't know what they do when the LK401 is used on a VTxxx, but they are used as ALT keys (what else?) when the LK401 is used on a workstation, namely DEC 3000 Alphas. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Oct 13 18:40:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <007401c27307$380aea80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > Being realistic, I didn't expect Tektronix to keep spare parts for 30 > > year old instrumentes either.... > > I wonder if they've still got spares for the 46x series scopes, > specifically the 466. I need a new front panel cover, accessory pouch > (the one with the zip), scope probe, storage pouch (the one that bolts > onto the top of the scope) and implosion guard (Perspex sheet that > protects the CRT - mine has a scuff on it). Anyone know of a source for > these parts? I've also heard that the 466 used some Tek-made ICs too, > vertical driver or something like that. Anyone got some spares they feel > like parting with? As far as scratched plastic goes, I'd recommend you try polishing it out, since a replacement is likely going to be difficult to obtain. I know for a fact Tektronix no longer supports the 2213 60MHz analog scopes. I bought 3 of them at auction some time ago, and when I called Tektronix, I was informed that they had recently sold off all the manuals, probes, and spare parts inventory for these to GTE. I was given a contact name and phone number for someone at GTE by Tektronix, but when I called them, GTE would not sell me any parts. They wanted me to send in my scopes, charge me an extremely high troubleshooting fee, charge me more for whatever they thought needed to be replaced/repaired, and then charge me yet again for return shipping. I nearly hung up on them... I've since located a source for the special P6120 probes, and am now in the process of buying them. I have not yet located the Service/Operators manual(s). One of the 2213s needs a new plastic faceplate, as it appears someone dropped it. I'd not be too worried about it, except that it is used to support the CRT. Thankfully, the rest of the scope (and especially the CRT) is just fine. -Toth From h.godavari at shaw.ca Sun Oct 13 19:11:03 2002 From: h.godavari at shaw.ca (harsha godavari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? References: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> <3D9C58A4.4C983EAE@ccp.com> <2280.4.20.168.172.1033674938.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <20021006152730.TJZP9131.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3DA387AF.24D65D87@shaw.ca> If you are in Canada, when the UPS guy shows up with the parcel, tell him to take it back and that you will clear it through customs personally. They will call you in afew days with some papers for you to take to the customs office. Take them and have them stamped by the customs (they may charge some duties+taxes). Return to UPS and hand over the papers. At that point you will have a choice of picking up the parcel(from UPS warehouse) personally or have them deliver it (no charge for that). If it is within the size limits USPS/CanadaPost is the cheapest solution. UPS is very greedy. As for collection agency it can happen even if you cleared it yourself (personal experience :-)) Make sure that UPS makes appropriate notes on the paperwork that there is no brokerage due and all dues are paid. Regards Harsha Godavari Mike wrote: > > On Thursday 03 October 2002 15:55, Eric Smith wrote: > > > One needs to consult with a customs broker, and there are many in > > > business on both sides of the border. > > > > For old equipment, the broker's fee will exceed the import duties you > > could expect to pay. I've had people send me stuff from Canada, and > > later received outrageous bills from customs brokers, usually for > > around five times what I paid for the merchandise. As far as I'm > > concerned, I have no established business relationship with these > > customs brokers. I did not expect the sender to use such a broker, and > > was not told that it would be done. So I have never paid them. > > I tried this approach with UPS. They sent me the bill after I'd already > given the goods away. > They sent a few threatening letters and then I got one from a > collections agency. From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 13 19:38:16 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Request from Intel's Museum In-Reply-To: <200210090132.SAA30608@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Imagine if the same amount of effort was applied > > to a sensible machine, like MIPS, Alpha, or ARM! > > Or PowerPC :-) Multigigahertz POWER4 is pretty far down the pipeline. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 13 19:38:54 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: DEC SDI Drives In-Reply-To: <003601c26f33$2ccef0d0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: I don't think shipping would be reasonable anyway. Thanks anyhow. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; ; > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 8:27 AM > Subject: DEC SDI Drives > > > > > > Does anyone have any DEC RA7X drives they would be willing to let go real > > cheap? Size doesn't really matter all that much. > > I have some RA70's (250mb). I have a few 240v RA90's as well. Though getting > them to you in working order might be a problem from here. > > I've already struck a snag trying to send a q-bus board to a guy in the > states, I've had to resort to wrapping the antistat bag > in 2mm sheet lead, (we have a lead smelter here ;^) as the US xray or > irradiate every damn thing. It's a rare board so not taking any chances. > > > Geoff in Oz > From h.godavari at shaw.ca Sun Oct 13 19:39:22 2002 From: h.godavari at shaw.ca (harsha godavari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: BSD 2.9 References: Message-ID: <3DA39836.D178ED2F@shaw.ca> Pat: did you ever locate a download_source for BSD 2.9? Regards Harsha Godavari Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > Does anyone know where I could find a distribution of BSD 2.9 that I could > install on my PDP-11/23. Also, will it work with just a 'TU58' (or > possibly two) - I should hopefully have a working emulator by the end of > the week - and 32kW of ram? I don't need it to do much - I'd just like to > have something set up to play with a little. > > Thanks! > > Pat > > -- > "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is > completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" > -- Anonymous > http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From h.godavari at shaw.ca Sun Oct 13 19:39:47 2002 From: h.godavari at shaw.ca (harsha godavari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? References: <200210030748.g937m6g09430@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <3DA32F5F.692A2BBC@shaw.ca> Just phone the customs folks. They are usually quite helpful when approached for information :-) Regards Harsha Godavari Steve Jones wrote: > > Why do now what you can put off until the last minute... > > A gentleman in Canada has some hardware that he's willing to give > me (old computers in questionable state). Thing is, neither one of > us is sure if there's any paperwork required to bring these boxes > over the border. He's even willing to deliver, but not without any > necessary paperwork. > > Can anybody fill me in on what would be required? Would working > versus non-working make a difference? It's close to 15 years old > if that matters... > > Thanks, > --Steve. > > smj@spamfree.crash.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Oct 13 19:40:14 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Scope Choice for Vintage Computer Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <61613.12.13.226.13.1034005547.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021007072229.0272a4d8@pc> <001301c26e12$07b89840$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <00bc01c26e13$a0e9b520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <61613.12.13.226.13.1034005547.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <200210082051440349.C314F0F3@192.168.42.129> Hi, Mike, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 07-Oct-02 at 08:45 Mike wrote: >Ok, I need some advice on what type of scope might be available for >troubleshooting vintage computers. >I have already decided that I need more than is necessary. I want to >limit my choice to a economically priced portable LCD scope. However, I'm >not familar with what is available. >Any good choices? If it doesn't say 'Tektronix' on it, my opinion is that it's not worth bothering with. For the sake of both performance and 'classic' appeal, I would see about getting hold of one of the all-time favorites of former DEC field service engineers: The Tektronix 465, 475, or 475A, with the DM44 multimeter option if you can find it. I see all of the above come up on E-pay frequently enough, and I also see them at ham swaps. Good hunting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From jismay at gkar.unixboxen.net Sun Oct 13 19:40:44 2002 From: jismay at gkar.unixboxen.net (J Brian Ismay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: 10 years Message-ID: <63297.64.58.154.245.1034183115.squirrel@webmail.unixboxen.com> >On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, James Rice wrote: > >> By the strict 10 year rule, Tandy 1000's are on-topic. I bought the >> My 2000 is even older. > >Both the 2000 and 1000 had interesting deviations from the PC "standard". >The 2000 was a "720K" 5.25" disk format. > >IIRC, >The 1000 did not use DMA for disk I/O, somewhat like the PCJr. > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com In stock form the 1000 did not use DMA, but any of the Tandy, and many of the third party memory expansion cards added DMA to the system. Even a dual 360k drive 384k RAM T1000 was a pretty decent machine IMHO. At least it came standard with a printer port. -- To Sleep, Perchance to Dream. For in that sleep of death what dreams may come when we shuffle off this mortal coil must give us pause From stefan at softhome.net Sun Oct 13 19:41:12 2002 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Parts for Teletype ASR35 needed Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021009191628.00aba0d8@pop.softhome.net> Hi, I have here a half working Teletype ASR35. I am missing some parts, namely the plastic hood, manuals and some lightbulbs. Also the ASR35 isn't working properly, I am missing half of the keyboard sorta speak, you can type uptil the letter H or so and then if you continue it starts with the A again. So any help with that is also welcome. Thanks!! Stefan. From gil at vauxelectronics.com Sun Oct 13 19:41:35 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Parts for Teletype ASR35 needed Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021009111229.00a9c9a0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi Stefan: You may be interested in the greenkeys teletype email list -- lots of good folks with questions, answers, etc. (I am admin of it). Let me know if you want more info. You could join and ask, or I could forward your message if you'd rather. There is likely someone on greenkeys who can help you. I'm not personally familiar with the 35 (though it's just an ascii version of the baudot 28). The 35 is a heavy-duty machine that you should be able to return to service (as opposed to the 33, which is a crappy design that just wears out). I'd love to see some pics of your 35. There was a guy in NJ last month with two 35 machines on ebay. He could not get $5 for them, and may still have them. I have collected a few teletype machines that I am restoring (not selling): an M15-ksr, an M31-ksr, an M33-asr, an M28-ksr table-top, an M28-ro, an M28-rotr, an M28-td, an M14-td, and an M14-ktr. gil smith At 07:19 PM 10/9/02 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, > >I have here a half working Teletype ASR35. I am missing some parts, namely >the plastic hood, manuals and some lightbulbs. Also the ASR35 isn't >working properly, I am missing half of the keyboard sorta speak, you can >type uptil the letter H or so and then if you continue it starts with the A >again. > >So any help with that is also welcome. > >Thanks!! > >Stefan. > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 13 19:43:02 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor In-Reply-To: <050d01c26fb8$b0456a40$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: BTW, for all you microchannel-heads out there. I have quite a few 100Mbps Ethernet cards for microchannel new in box. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Sipke de Wal wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 11:16 PM > Subject: Re: Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor > > > > > > I used to work in a group at Lucent (in Columbus, OH) that > > maintained Suns and NCR 34xx machines. How many MicroChannel > > SCSI cards does yours have? Ethernet? > > > > 1 x SCSI, 0 x Ethernet although i may have an IBM one somewhere > > > /snip > > > If you want to run multi-processor UNIX (NCR's MP-RAS) on what > > are probably P-90 chips, it's a fine little beast. Otherwise, > > it's an I/O-heavy desktop machine. A giant PeeCee, really. > > > > Hmm, was afraid of that, more or less ............. > I'll propably will salvage usable parts from it and turn to > more vintage stuff like Sun or Intergraph stations for projects .......... > > If somebody is in dire need of a low weight part of this machine ? > Let me know (soon! ;-) > > > > > I was told that you could stick in a DOS boot floppy and play > > DOOM on one. Never got the chance, though. :-) > > > > > Sipke de Wal > ----------------------------------------------------- > http://xgistor.ath.cx > ----------------------------------------------------- > From stefan at softhome.net Sun Oct 13 19:43:33 2002 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Parts for Teletype ASR35 needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021009111229.00a9c9a0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021009204053.0227bb10@pop.softhome.net> Yup, I saw them on eBay, but he would only sell me the complete things :( And since I live in the Netherlands shipping them complete was VERY expensive. I would have payed for the whole thing but just would have let him send the smaller parts to me. But yes, if you could add me, send me more info, please do! Stefan. At 11:12 9-10-2002 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Stefan: > >You may be interested in the greenkeys teletype email list -- lots of good >folks with questions, answers, etc. (I am admin of it). Let me know if you >want more info. You could join and ask, or I could forward your message if >you'd rather. There is likely someone on greenkeys who can help you. > >I'm not personally familiar with the 35 (though it's just an ascii version >of the baudot 28). The 35 is a heavy-duty machine that you should be able >to return to service (as opposed to the 33, which is a crappy design that >just wears out). I'd love to see some pics of your 35. > >There was a guy in NJ last month with two 35 machines on ebay. He could >not get $5 for them, and may still have them. > >I have collected a few teletype machines that I am restoring (not selling): > an M15-ksr, an M31-ksr, an M33-asr, an M28-ksr table-top, an M28-ro, an >M28-rotr, an M28-td, an M14-td, and an M14-ktr. > > >gil smith > > >At 07:19 PM 10/9/02 +0200, you wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I have here a half working Teletype ASR35. I am missing some parts, namely > >the plastic hood, manuals and some lightbulbs. Also the ASR35 isn't > >working properly, I am missing half of the keyboard sorta speak, you can > >type uptil the letter H or so and then if you continue it starts with the A > >again. > > > >So any help with that is also welcome. > > > >Thanks!! > > > >Stefan. > > > > > > > >;----------------------------------------------------------- >; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 >; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) >;----------------------------------------------------------- From gil at vauxelectronics.com Sun Oct 13 19:43:57 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Parts for Teletype ASR35 needed Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021009115406.00a90540@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi Stefan: The greenkeys teletype email list averages a few emails a day (not overwhelming). To sign up, you need to go to: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys You can poke through the archives at: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ You can peek at my incomplete and random tty stuff at: http://www.vauxelectronics.com/gil/tty/ There's also some interface stuff at: http://www.vauxelectronics.com/gil/tty232/ Bill Buzbee wrote a program that lets a tty send/receive email, ftp, and other cool things: http://www.buzbee.net/heavymetal/ http://www.buzbee.net/heavymetal/Intro.htm And yet more tty stuff at http://www.rtty.com and http://www.nadcomm.org later, gil At 08:42 PM 10/9/02 +0200, you wrote: >Yup, I saw them on eBay, but he would only sell me the complete things :( >And since I live in the Netherlands shipping them complete was VERY >expensive. I would have payed for the whole thing but just would have let >him send the smaller parts to me. > >But yes, if you could add me, send me more info, please do! > >Stefan. > >At 11:12 9-10-2002 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi Stefan: >> >>You may be interested in the greenkeys teletype email list -- lots of good >>folks with questions, answers, etc. (I am admin of it). Let me know if you >>want more info. You could join and ask, or I could forward your message if >>you'd rather. There is likely someone on greenkeys who can help you. >> >>I'm not personally familiar with the 35 (though it's just an ascii version >>of the baudot 28). The 35 is a heavy-duty machine that you should be able >>to return to service (as opposed to the 33, which is a crappy design that >>just wears out). I'd love to see some pics of your 35. >> >>There was a guy in NJ last month with two 35 machines on ebay. He could >>not get $5 for them, and may still have them. >> >>I have collected a few teletype machines that I am restoring (not selling): >> an M15-ksr, an M31-ksr, an M33-asr, an M28-ksr table-top, an M28-ro, an >>M28-rotr, an M28-td, an M14-td, and an M14-ktr. >> >> >>gil smith >> >> >>At 07:19 PM 10/9/02 +0200, you wrote: >> >Hi, >> > >> >I have here a half working Teletype ASR35. I am missing some parts, namely >> >the plastic hood, manuals and some lightbulbs. Also the ASR35 isn't >> >working properly, I am missing half of the keyboard sorta speak, you can >> >type uptil the letter H or so and then if you continue it starts with the A >> >again. >> > >> >So any help with that is also welcome. >> > >> >Thanks!! >> > >> >Stefan. >> > >> > >> > >> >>;----------------------------------------------------------- >>; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 >>; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) >>;----------------------------------------------------------- > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From Qstieee at aol.com Sun Oct 13 19:44:26 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor Message-ID: <131115F0.3F03611A.001A265C@aol.com> I believe NCR's PC group went to AT&T, so some support might be there. From Qstieee at aol.com Sun Oct 13 19:44:49 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Parts for Teletype ASR35 needed Message-ID: <69C14BAA.4BC75D4C.001A265C@aol.com> The last time I saw a teletype gainfully employed it was maintained by Western Union service people, even though it was attached to a real-time computer system, not the WU network. So WU may still maintain some service capability. From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 13 19:45:14 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: SCSI drive available In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021009205248.00a48950@66.67.226.217> Message-ID: I don't think that drive will even come close to physically fitting in a Sun Lunchbox case. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > Well, I happen to have a 5.25" Hull height Seagate 10gig SCSI drive > available. It powers, never fully tested it though. Hildebrand was going to > take it but it fell through. I also have a 1gig IBM and I think one or two > 2gig drives (Maxtor? and Seagates). Anyone need one or specs? Seagate seems > to like me lately. Going for shipping only. > john_boffemmyer_iv@boff-net.dhs.org > BTW: nice to see that Sridhar is still with us. =) > -John > > > At 12:18 AM 10/9/02, you wrote: > >On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Bruce Lane wrote: > > > > > Actually, that's a 2.2 gig drive. The 12400N is an early Hawk series, > > > very popular with the Sun 'lunchbox' systems. > > > >As a matter of fact, I'd like to find one of these for my Sparc LX. It > >came without a drive (removed because the place that owned it was > >paranoid). > > > >-Toth > > ---------------------------------------- > Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst > and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies > http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html > --------------------------------------- > > From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Sun Oct 13 19:45:43 2002 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) Message-ID: <200210101027.g9AARmdh016726@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Joe wrote: > I don't know what the difference is between an A and a B model. [...] There are two models corresponding to the 85 and the 85B. I am supposed to have an 9915B (that's what it says on the box), but the main PCB says 9915-66512 Rev A. Go figure. If I could power it up I'd know whether its an A or a B by the amount of RAM, but I am still debugging the PSU. > >As for the control connector, I have no idea what that might be used for. > > I don't recall if it's input and output or only input but the 9915 can > detect switch closures and take pre-programmed action. From eam at fernsoft.com Sun Oct 13 19:46:17 2002 From: eam at fernsoft.com (Beth Madry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: IBM ThinkPad 750T Message-ID: <17582209210.20021010122024@fernsoft.com> Are you still looking to get rid of this? How much are you asking for it? * IBM ThinkPad 750T (pen-based computer with doc). Comes with power brick, dock and 185mb PCMCIA hard drive. PenWindows 95 installed. // www.fernsoft.com // The place for custom software and graphics, // doing the hard stuff so that you do not have to. From kees.stravers at iae.nl Sun Oct 13 19:46:42 2002 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20021010180050.00807994@pop.iae.nl> Hi, I guess it would be too much to hope that some one has recorded this program and can capture it to an avi file, so that us foreigners who don't have this channel can see it too? It seems very interesting! Kees. At 11:55 10-10-02 -0400, you wrote: >This show had the most footage of Imlac's I've ever seen. A really >great program! > >David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > >> Just curious... did anybody else watch the History Channel last >>night, 7:00PM Eastern Time. The Modern Marvels episode was about the >>creation of the internet. Rather fascinating to me (who learned some >>things), and kinda neat to put faces to names... >> Not to mention the pictures of the old, err, classic computers and >>terminals... From robert at usce.org Sun Oct 13 19:47:05 2002 From: robert at usce.org (Robert M. Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: FYI Message-ID: <000001c2709a$4b5f3380$0a01a8c0@uscex> I need 45 as is LK402-a DEC keyboards.........PO Robert M. Campbell U.S. Computer Exchange, Inc. 386 East Maple Troy, MI 48083 Ph. 248 583-9000 Fx. 248 583-9009 robert@usce.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021013/0d2507ea/attachment.html From robert_little_2000 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 13 19:47:34 2002 From: robert_little_2000 at yahoo.com (Robert Little) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:58 2005 Subject: Tandy Model 600 Question In-Reply-To: <20021010170001.85817.62376.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20021010214247.33325.qmail@web20608.mail.yahoo.com> Just dug a Tandy 600 out of the dungeon up here at the science center, found an appropriate power supply and tried it out. Nada. Zip. Anybody out there have experience with this machine? All I know is that it has internal ni-cads (which are to be clipped out), an SSDD 3 1/2" FD, and looks like a Model 100/102 on steroids. I think the chipset is also unique (80C88 ?). Any thoughts would be appreciated... Robert Little Astronomer Talcott Mountain Science Center Avon, CT __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From kevin at hitechstencils.com Sun Oct 13 19:47:58 2002 From: kevin at hitechstencils.com (kevin wong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: Hi Marvin, If you still have these ones ,please contact me .I want to buy some. Kevin. Apollo Keyboard w/ Logitech 3-button Mouse - $5.00 plus shipping for 6 pounds from zip code 93105. Email me if interested. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021013/e9bd2054/attachment.html From luser at xtra.co.nz Sun Oct 13 19:48:23 2002 From: luser at xtra.co.nz (Kenneth Dunn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: SIPPs Message-ID: I recall someone asking about SIPPs the other day. Was it on this list ? I found 3x 30 pin SIMM -> SIPP converters in my junk box if that is out any help. From peter.mate at verizon.net Sun Oct 13 19:48:58 2002 From: peter.mate at verizon.net (P.M.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: FS: HP1000 Computer System Message-ID: <3DA72EB4.000003.01412@piii850m> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021013/625031c6/attachment.gif From gil at vauxelectronics.com Sun Oct 13 19:49:22 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021011134430.00a6a5b0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi Joe: I subscribed and posted to cctech, but found your response in the cctalk archive. This list is new to me -- do you think I should I subscribe to cctalk instead of cctech? >>>I have three or four 9915s and a keyboard... I don't know what the difference is between an A and a B model... I did make a schematic of my keyboard but I haven't seen it in a while... >>> As I understand it, the 9915A is compatible with the HP-85 (aka HP-85A), while the 9915B is an 85B. IIRC, the 85B has built-in mass-storage and i/o roms, and more ramdisk memory than the 85A. I'd sure appreciate any keyboard info you may run across -- I could program a little pic to convert a serial keyboard. If this keyboard is used with other HP machines, other folks might find an adapter handy too. >>>You need to use the HP composite monitors. IIRC the PN is 82912 and 82913. These are used on the HP 86 and commonly used on the 9000 220 (aka 9920) and are pretty common. >>> >>>There were software developement kits available that let you write programs in assembler and burn them into EPROMs that plugged into a HP-85 type plug-in cartridges (called a Hybrid ROM or something like that) or directly into the 9915. The EPROMs that are in it are probably Matrix and/or I/O ROM IIRC. That seems to be standard in the 9915s that I'm aware of. >>> Yes, I have a programmable-rom-module and assembler rom (but have not tried them yet). A buddy of mine has managed to read 85 roms and burn them into eproms for the prog-rom-module. The original 85 roms seem to be special, and cannot be simply duplicated. I opened up a rom, hoping to find a standard package, but found a chip covered in a blob of epoxy, attached directly to a small board. I opened the rom drawer card, and found that all six sockets are wired in parallel (no individual enable lines to each). Then I looked at the signals connected to the rom card connector (using the serial manual's connector pinout as a reference). The roms have +12V, +6V, and -5V power. There is an 8-bit bi-directional bus, and four non-overlapping 12V clock signals. There is a "load-memory-address" line, a "power-on" line, "read" and "read-control" lines, and even a "write" line (I don't know why write is available on a rom). This all leads me to believe the roms are pretty specialized. Since there are no lines to enable a specific rom socket, I think the 85 must poll for roms using fixed address ranges or something -- this implies that the roms contain address qualification circuitry of some sort. I'm just speculating, but it would make the roms very difficult to duplicate, since this is not a standard address-bus/data-bus (or even a typical multiplexed addr/data bus). Thanks for the info Joe, gil ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 13 19:49:48 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs In-Reply-To: <20021012010517.G16770@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: I wonder why the DEFZA isn't supported yet? Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > Hi. > > Are there any programming docs for the DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / > M7534 available? > I have one of this beasts and a NetBSD driver would be quite nice. This > may be not to hard to accomplish, as there is already support for the > other PDQ cards (DEF[TEP]A). > -- > > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > From matt at 3am-software.com Sun Oct 13 19:50:14 2002 From: matt at 3am-software.com (Matt Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs In-Reply-To: References: <20021012010517.G16770@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021011170740.03a5cd50@3am-software.com> At 04:19 PM 10/11/2002, vance@neurotica.com wrote: >I wonder why the DEFZA isn't supported yet? Because no one has had enough interest to do it yet. The DEFZA requires a new driver. The DEFQA can reuse the existing PDQ framework for DEF[TPE]A. -- Matt Thomas Internet: matt@3am-software.com 3am Software Foundry WWW URL: http://www.3am-software.com/bio/matt/ Cupertino, CA Disclaimer: I avow all knowledge of this message From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Oct 13 19:50:39 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021011170740.03a5cd50@3am-software.com> Message-ID: <365B4FAE-DD78-11D6-9697-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 08:09 PM, Matt Thomas wrote: >> I wonder why the DEFZA isn't supported yet? > > Because no one has had enough interest to do it yet. > > The DEFZA requires a new driver. The DEFQA can reuse > the existing PDQ framework for DEF[TPE]A. I have a few DEFZAs here that I'd be happy to donate for driver hackitude. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From matt at 3am-software.com Sun Oct 13 19:51:04 2002 From: matt at 3am-software.com (Matt Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs In-Reply-To: <365B4FAE-DD78-11D6-9697-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021011170740.03a5cd50@3am-software.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021011173453.03a67db0@3am-software.com> At 05:19 PM 10/11/2002, Dave McGuire wrote: >On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 08:09 PM, Matt Thomas wrote: >>>I wonder why the DEFZA isn't supported yet? >> >>Because no one has had enough interest to do it yet. >> >>The DEFZA requires a new driver. The DEFQA can reuse >>the existing PDQ framework for DEF[TPE]A. > > I have a few DEFZAs here that I'd be happy to donate for driver hackitude. The question is whether anyone with the ability wants to write such a driver. I know I don't! -- Matt Thomas Internet: matt@3am-software.com 3am Software Foundry WWW URL: http://www.3am-software.com/bio/matt/ Cupertino, CA Disclaimer: I avow all knowledge of this message From BNELSON at nwtel.ca Sun Oct 13 19:51:29 2002 From: BNELSON at nwtel.ca (Bill Nelson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: HP ThinkJet 2225P Message-ID: Tony: Its parrallel NOT (HP1B=GP-1B=IEEE488) Let me know if you find the info on the interface pinout. I have one with the same problem no printer cable for it? Please send info to wnelson@yt.sympatico.ca and bnelson@nwtel.ca Thanks Bill PS have infot for IBM & Centronics if you need it From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 13 19:51:54 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021011170740.03a5cd50@3am-software.com> Message-ID: So DEFZA is different hardware from the other three? The NetBSD/pmax FAQ seems to indicate otherwise. Maybe it should be changed. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Matt Thomas wrote: > At 04:19 PM 10/11/2002, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > >I wonder why the DEFZA isn't supported yet? > > Because no one has had enough interest to do it yet. > > The DEFZA requires a new driver. The DEFQA can reuse > the existing PDQ framework for DEF[TPE]A. > > > -- > Matt Thomas Internet: matt@3am-software.com > 3am Software Foundry WWW URL: http://www.3am-software.com/bio/matt/ > Cupertino, CA Disclaimer: I avow all knowledge of this message > From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 13 19:52:24 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA7A922.E70A8643@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > The LT320 is a third-party plasma terminal. There are MMJ and > > DB25 serial connectors, and LK201/401-compatible and AT-compatible > > keyboard connectors. I use an LK401 with mine. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I presume the LK201 and the LK401 are plug compatible? > > Also, what are the actual differences and why do you prefer the LK401? > Sincerely yours, The LK201 and LK401 are compatible in every way. The LK201 is as flat as a board, and achieved a dubious distinction when it was involved in a repetitive-strain injury lawsuit. The LK401 is the ergonomic variety. However, the keys are a little different between the two, and a lot of people prefer the key feel from the original LK201. I prefer the LK401, myself. Actually, my favorite are the IBM buckling-spring "clickety" models. Especially the 3278 terminal keyboards. Peace... Sridhar From matt at 3am-software.com Sun Oct 13 19:52:52 2002 From: matt at 3am-software.com (Matt Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021011170740.03a5cd50@3am-software.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021011223338.03a60268@3am-software.com> At 09:06 PM 10/11/2002, vance@neurotica.com wrote: >So DEFZA is different hardware from the other three? The NetBSD/pmax FAQ >seems to indicate otherwise. Maybe it should be changed. > >Peace... Sridhar Yes it is. -- Matt Thomas Internet: matt@3am-software.com 3am Software Foundry WWW URL: http://www.3am-software.com/bio/matt/ Cupertino, CA Disclaimer: I avow all knowledge of this message From Jack at Coats.org Sun Oct 13 19:53:18 2002 From: Jack at Coats.org (Jack Coats) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Looking for: Ai Cybernetic Systems Model 1000 Speech Synthesizer. Message-ID: <000001c271f2$90886f40$3201a8c0@flame> I think I still have one. You might check with Wirt Atmar at AI Cybernetics. He did the original AI Cybernetic synthesizer. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021013/f0cc4811/attachment.html From spedraja at ono.com Sun Oct 13 19:53:42 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Conseil request about some systems I can obtain References: Message-ID: <13e801c27201$af9c8740$13912a3e@sergio> Hello. Is possible (ONLY possible by now) that I could obtain these equipment: * 1 Serie/1 (little size serie) * 1 IBM RT (with BSC connection to...) * 1 IBM S/370 4361 with a couple of disks of 25 kilos, one 3279 console and one 3174 terminals controller * 1 PDP system (used for instrumentation controlling, unknown model yet) * 1 CP/M S-100 system (unknown model yet) * Software and Documentation All items are stopped from two years ago. Some of them are stored in a great general store of the company who wants get rid of them. With independence of the conservation state of all the stuff. What preventions must I have about the management of these computers ? My panic comes about a possible damage of the items in the moment of start up them. I should agree any comments. Thanks and Greetings. Sergio From vze4cykj at verizon.net Sun Oct 13 19:54:12 2002 From: vze4cykj at verizon.net (stewart allen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Moving data from PC to any Classic systems - Suggestions, Ideas, anyone? Message-ID: <003301c27226$788b1620$a866fea9@o3e7o6> Hoping as many peoples as there are ideas may respond and all help is appreciated. Off list if possible @ vze4cykj@verizon.net If I downloaded files on my PC for old systems (e.g. Apple ][, Amiga, Amstrad, Commodore, PCjr, Sinclair, TRS-80, Texas Instruments TI) (1)Please describe some ways to move files to any of above systems assuming they had hard drives or floppy with correct format. Please note the above are only examples, I mean to include all classic systems excluding most PC XT systems. (2) Please describe any other alternative way different from downloading to PC first (3)Describe software and hardware that will be needed and know-how's. Please be detailed and kind as possible, s I am A novice at this. Regards Stewart From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Sun Oct 13 19:54:43 2002 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021013003632.17065.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> IBM 2741 and various clones (GTE) - with APL typeball of course. Very close second is Decwriter, again with APL character set. Lee Courtney __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From llyon at intas.net.au Sun Oct 13 19:55:07 2002 From: llyon at intas.net.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Floppies References: <20021013045546.19079.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <025701c27276$b71354c0$0500a8c0@lance> Anyone know if 3.5" DSDD (not HD) floppies are still manufactured ? cheers, Lance --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 4/10/2002 From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 13 19:55:36 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: Message-ID: IBM internally still uses S/1's on WAN links in places. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > So, the IMPs they built would be the first network interface, right? The > > precurser to the present-day NIC. > > Nahhh...evrybody knows that the first real network was Ma Bell... > > > I wonder if any of those are still > > around... Or if they're even used once in a while... > > Until quite recently, the oldest parts of the Internet were some NSFnet > (ANS) era links. These are now gone. The old APRAnet (where IMPs lived) > links died years ago. > > There are some private WANs that (at least fairly recently) use very old > technology. One of the sites I frequented (3 or 4 years ago) had a bunch > of blinkenlight HP minis used as NICs. Another used IBM S/1s. I never > found out who these machines belonged to. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Sun Oct 13 19:56:02 2002 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) Message-ID: <200210131414.g9DEEbpe006126@codex.cis.upenn.edu> "Scarletdown" wrote: > I might just build a very minimalist 386 or 486 system from spare parts > I have lying about here, set it up with FreeDOS or MINIX, and make that > the console. [...] Actually the easiest way to build a 386-based terminal is with MSDOS (or DRDOS) and kermit. Kermit supports most serial cards and even some ethernet cards (so you can telnet over TCP/IP). There is even DOS-based software for mouse support (so you can cut & paste text). Kermit or DOS can take care of most input and output conversions so you can talk to almost any system that support telnet or async serial. BTW since most IDE disk have a spin down feature, you can spin down the disk just after you load kermit, so you don't even have to listen to the hard disk. Many systems of that era didn't have PSU fans, so spinning down the disk made the system totally quiet. **vp From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 13 19:56:26 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <3DA727E7.8444440@ecubics.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > Though I must admit I lust after a VT340+, but I have yet to get my > > hands on one. > > Yeeeeesssss. But they are still expensive, even VERY used. What's the difference between the VT340 and the VT340+? Peace... Sridhar From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Oct 13 19:56:53 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug: More auction stuff Message-ID: <200210131057570329.DAB4C917@192.168.42.129> I've just posted some more DEC'ish stuff on E-pay in the 'Other hardware; vintage; other' category (#1247). Included among these is a couple of DHV11 serial mux's, a dual-height extender, four M9047 grant cards, and some TK50 tape controllers. All cheap opening bids, no reserve on anything. Also, as a reminder; My existing auctions for such things as engineering drawings for the PDP11-05S/11-10S, the TU60, and the MF11-U, all end this evening between 18:31 and 18:56 PDT. If interested, pop over to Ebay and use the 'Search by seller' feature to scan for seller ID 'bftbell' (sans quotes, of course). Thanks for putting up with my occasional ads. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From jim at jkearney.com Sun Oct 13 19:57:23 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors References: <20021013132101.13806.62226.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20021013183857.11783.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <003001c272de$984d1590$1301090a@jkearney.com> Message-ID: <006801c27317$8c8d55b0$1301090a@jkearney.com> > Typically I think they came with the matching probe > fixtures, but you only have to know what bits to hook for the status word in > order to use them with the standard probes. I found some informatyion on the probes tucked into the back of the 16510A documentation, and this statement may not be correct. It's possible that the probes may decode some states in hardware, and that the IAs may depend on this decoding. But it's not 100% clear in the documentation. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Oct 13 19:58:29 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FCCC@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Dave! You are alive! -fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 2:19 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org; port-vax@netbsd.org > Subject: Re: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs > > > On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 08:09 PM, Matt Thomas wrote: > >> I wonder why the DEFZA isn't supported yet? > > > > Because no one has had enough interest to do it yet. > > > > The DEFZA requires a new driver. The DEFQA can reuse > > the existing PDQ framework for DEF[TPE]A. > > I have a few DEFZAs here that I'd be happy to donate for driver > hackitude. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > > From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Oct 13 20:05:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FCCF@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> okok, tis bedtime again, or so it seems... sorry, all.. --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred N. van Kempen > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:58 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs > > > Dave! You are alive! > > -fred > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > > Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 2:19 AM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org; port-vax@netbsd.org > > Subject: Re: DEC QBus FDDI adapter DEFQA / M7534 docs > > > > > > On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 08:09 PM, Matt Thomas wrote: > > >> I wonder why the DEFZA isn't supported yet? > > > > > > Because no one has had enough interest to do it yet. > > > > > > The DEFZA requires a new driver. The DEFQA can reuse > > > the existing PDQ framework for DEF[TPE]A. > > > > I have a few DEFZAs here that I'd be happy to donate for driver > > hackitude. > > > > -Dave > > > > -- > > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > > > > > From dbwood at kc.rr.com Sun Oct 13 20:08:00 2002 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Floppies References: <20021013045546.19079.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> <025701c27276$b71354c0$0500a8c0@lance> Message-ID: <09ad01c2731e$29d2f720$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> How many are you looking for? Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lance Lyon" To: Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 12:09 AM Subject: Floppies > Anyone know if 3.5" DSDD (not HD) floppies are still manufactured ? > > cheers, > > Lance > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 4/10/2002 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Oct 13 20:34:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021011134430.00a6a5b0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021013213754.110fdcb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Gil, I'm sending a copy of this reply directly to you as well as replying on the list so I can be sure that you get a copy. At 01:44 PM 10/11/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Joe: > >I subscribed and posted to cctech, but found your response in the cctalk >archive. This list is new to me -- do you think I should I subscribe to >cctalk instead of cctech? I thought that everyone that was subscribed to cctech automaticly got the posts from cctalk. I was subscribed to both but there was almost no postings on cctech at the time. > > >>>>I have three or four 9915s and a keyboard... I don't know what the >difference is between an A and a B model... I did make a schematic of my >keyboard but I haven't seen it in a while... >>>> > >As I understand it, the 9915A is compatible with the HP-85 (aka HP-85A), >while the 9915B is an 85B. OK that makes sense. Somehow I missed picking that up. IIRC, the 85B has built-in mass-storage and i/o >roms, and more ramdisk memory than the 85A. No, the 85B has more memory (32k vs 16k) than the 85 (aka 85A) but it's standard memory and not RAMDISK memory. The E-Disk ROM MAY be able to convert all or part of that to RAMDISK but it would leave you with no user memory. FWIW The 128k memory cartridge is strickly for RAMDISK memory, it can't be used for regular memory. Also I'm pretty certain that 85B does not have the I/O and Mass Storage ROMs built-in. The HP-85F has those built in and it looks like an 85B and says 85B on the front but it should have a metal tag on the back that identifies it as an 85F. The 85F were delivered as part of various HP test systems and AFIK they were never listed separately in the HP catalogs. That's probably why few people have heard of them and may be confusing their capabilities with standard 85Bs. The 85F is a nice catch IMO, you gain two ROMs and don't use up any of the ports on the back. > >I'd sure appreciate any keyboard info you may run across -- I could program >a little pic to convert a serial keyboard. If this keyboard is used with >other HP machines, other folks might find an adapter handy too. I'm sure they would, there are quite a few 9915s out there but AFIK I have the only keyboard around. I'll see if I can find the schematic. If I can't I guess I'll have to re-create it. But me every week or two and make sure that I do it else I'm liable to get busy with other projects and forget it. > > >>>>You need to use the HP composite monitors. IIRC the PN is 82912 and >82913. These are used on the HP 86 and commonly used on the 9000 220 (aka >9920) and are pretty common. >>>> > >>>>There were software developement kits available that let you write >programs in assembler and burn them into EPROMs that plugged into a HP-85 >type plug-in cartridges (called a Hybrid ROM or something like that) or >directly into the 9915. The EPROMs that are in it are probably Matrix >and/or I/O ROM IIRC. That seems to be standard in the 9915s that I'm aware of. >>>> > >Yes, I have a programmable-rom-module and assembler rom (but have not tried >them yet). A buddy of mine has managed to read 85 roms and burn them into >eproms for the prog-rom-module. The original 85 roms seem to be special, >and cannot be simply duplicated. I know. HP uses some funky ROMs! The computer sends it the address of the data that it wants and the ROM (and RAMS) send the data at that address but instead of stopping there they send the data at the next address and the next and the next, etc etc unless the computer tells it to stop or sends it a new address. Interesting idea. I suppose it reduces the otherhead considerably if you're fetching data from consecutive addresses. I have a Hybrid ROM drawer, actually I think the complete name is Programmable Hybrid ROM. How did your buddy manage to read the HP ROMs? With the Assembler? > >I opened up a rom, hoping to find a standard package, but found a chip >covered in a blob of epoxy, attached directly to a small board. I opened >the rom drawer card, and found that all six sockets are wired in parallel >(no individual enable lines to each). Then I looked at the signals >connected to the rom card connector (using the serial manual's connector >pinout as a reference). The roms have +12V, +6V, and -5V power. There is >an 8-bit bi-directional bus, and four non-overlapping 12V clock signals. >There is a "load-memory-address" line, a "power-on" line, "read" and >"read-control" lines, and even a "write" line (I don't know why write is >available on a rom). > >This all leads me to believe the roms are pretty specialized. Since there >are no lines to enable a specific rom socket, I think the 85 must poll for >roms using fixed address ranges or something -- this implies that the roms >contain address qualification circuitry of some sort. Almost certainly. I know that the ROMs in many of their calculators do. I'm just >speculating, but it would make the roms very difficult to duplicate, since >this is not a standard address-bus/data-bus (or even a typical multiplexed >addr/data bus). Yeap! > > >Thanks for the info Joe, I hope it helps. Good luck with it. Joe > >gil > > > > >;----------------------------------------------------------- >; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 >; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) >;----------------------------------------------------------- > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Oct 13 20:50:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors In-Reply-To: <006801c27317$8c8d55b0$1301090a@jkearney.com> References: <20021013132101.13806.62226.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20021013183857.11783.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <003001c272de$984d1590$1301090a@jkearney.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021013214939.110f71e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:20 PM 10/13/02 -0400, you wrote: >> Typically I think they came with the matching probe >> fixtures, but you only have to know what bits to hook for the status word >in >> order to use them with the standard probes. > >I found some informatyion on the probes tucked into the back of the 16510A >documentation, >and this statement may not be correct. It's possible that the probes may >decode some >states in hardware, and that the IAs may depend on this decoding. But it's >not 100% >clear in the documentation. > I checked the description in the HP catalog and it implies the same thing but it's not clear about it. I've run across a few pods, I should grab one and open it up and see it there's anything inside. Another thing to add to the "To Do" list! Joe From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Oct 13 20:50:46 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Parts for Teletype ASR35 needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021009111229.00a9c9a0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: > There was a guy in NJ last month with two 35 machines on ebay. He could > not get $5 for them, and may still have them. They are still at the warehouse in NJ, but frankly, I don't want to deal with them anymore. They have now moved into the "festering sore" department, and I might actually enjoy tipping them over the dock, followed by a satisfying crunch. I would like to thank some of the guys that have come by - Tom, Ethan, Dan, John, Jack, Bob, Dick, and probably a few others. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jim at jkearney.com Sun Oct 13 21:36:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Floppies References: <20021013045546.19079.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> <025701c27276$b71354c0$0500a8c0@lance> Message-ID: <00ad01c2732a$b0dc6650$1301090a@jkearney.com> I bought a couple of boxes from CDW recently. Don't know if they are manufacturing them still, or just old stock, though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lance Lyon" To: Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 1:09 AM Subject: Floppies > Anyone know if 3.5" DSDD (not HD) floppies are still manufactured ? > > cheers, > > Lance > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 4/10/2002 > From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sun Oct 13 21:55:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: References: <007401c27307$380aea80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021013225329.0100ea78@pop1.epm.net.co> At 06:42 PM 10/13/02 -0500, you wrote: >I know for a fact Tektronix no longer supports the 2213 60MHz analog >scopes. -snip- > but when I called >them, GTE would not sell me any parts. They wanted me to send in my >scopes, charge me an extremely high troubleshooting fee, charge me more >for whatever they thought needed to be replaced/repaired, and then charge >me yet again for return shipping. Argh, my main scope is a Tek 2213... though I still use my hp1980 sometimes. >I've since located a source for the special P6120 probes, and am now in >the process of buying them. I have not yet located the Service/Operators >manual(s). I have a photocopy of the operator's manual. At some point I was also looking for the service manual and I found a message in the archives of some high-frequency hobbyist mailing list (which I can't find now, but I have a hard copy). They referred the person who was asking about this to Deane Kidd, W7TYR, ex-TeK employee, and who runs a business supplying manuals for older TeK scopes. The contact info: Deane Kidd, 27270 S.W. Ladd Hill Rd., Sherwood, OR 97140, (503) 625-7363 . carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Oct 13 22:13:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: latest find... In-Reply-To: <007d01c272ec$d3180410$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > None current, and I didn't see your modem either. Might I inquire how much > you paid for it? I think $23. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Oct 13 22:14:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Floppies In-Reply-To: <025701c27276$b71354c0$0500a8c0@lance> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Lance Lyon wrote: > Anyone know if 3.5" DSDD (not HD) floppies are still manufactured ? I believe 3M still makes them, look for ones under the Imation brand. -Toth From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 13 22:20:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <200210101027.g9AARmdh016726@codex.cis.upenn.edu> References: <200210101027.g9AARmdh016726@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <33138.64.169.63.74.1034565684.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I am supposed to have an 9915B (that's what it says on the box), but the > main PCB says 9915-66512 Rev A. Go figure. The fact that the PCB part number in an HP product has a particular rev level almost never has anything to do with the suffix of the model number (e.g., 9915A or 9915B). For instance, the HP-95C and HP-95LX, which aren't even *similar* products, have 00095-xxxxx parts, with various PCB revs, as does the HP-9807A Integral PC. (Maybe the Integral was originally going to be designated an HP-95 with some other letter suffix?) It's probable that the 9915A and 9915B have different PCB part numbers, though both would likely be of the form 09995-6xxxx. This is an HP 5x5 part number; the first five digits are usually (but not always) the base of the model number. PCBs are usually a -60xxx or -66xxx suffix; repair exchange boards are usually ordered with a -69xxx suffix, though the board etch will show the original part number. Subassemblies usually have -8xxxx numbers, and documentation -9xxxx. Sometimes on a 5x5 the leading zero is not shown, but it's really part of the full part number. 4x4 part numbers are for "generic" parts, that are not specific to a product. Things like resistors, common ICs, and such. Some 4x4 numbers may only be used in a single product, though. In the 60s, and maybe in the early 70s, HP had 4x4 and 4x5 part numbers for model-specific stuff, but they all got changed into 5x5 part numbers by prepending leading zeros. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 13 22:30:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021011134430.00a6a5b0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> References: <3.0.32.20021011134430.00a6a5b0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <33150.64.169.63.74.1034566284.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> gil smith wrote about HP-8x ROMs: > The roms have +12V, +6V, and -5V > power. There is an 8-bit bi-directional bus, and four non-overlapping > 12V clock signals. There is a "load-memory-address" line, a "power-on" > line, "read" and "read-control" lines, and even a "write" line (I don't > know why write is available on a rom). > This all leads me to believe the roms are pretty specialized. Yup, custom for the HP-8x, and CMOS versions for the HP-75. AFAIK they aren't used in anything else, although sometimes Corvallis division custom parts wound up in instruments, like the HP-35 chipset (with different ROM code) in the 1722A oscilliscope. > Since > there are no lines to enable a specific rom socket, I think the 85 must > poll for roms using fixed address ranges or something -- this implies > that the roms contain address qualification circuitry of some sort. They all map to the same address range, but have unique IDs that enable the software to select one and deselect the others. > I'm just > speculating, but it would make the roms very difficult to duplicate, > since this is not a standard address-bus/data-bus (or even a typical > multiplexed addr/data bus). Yes. I'd be interested in hearing how your buddy did it. I suppose one could write an assembly-language program to dump ROM data, but otherwise one would have to build some specialized hardware. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Oct 13 22:45:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021013225329.0100ea78@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote: > At 06:42 PM 10/13/02 -0500, you wrote: > > > I know for a fact Tektronix no longer supports the 2213 60MHz analog > > scopes. > > > I've since located a source for the special P6120 probes, and am now > > in the process of buying them. I have not yet located the > > Service/Operators manual(s). > > I have a photocopy of the operator's manual. At some point I was also > looking for the service manual and I found a message in the archives of > some high-frequency hobbyist mailing list (which I can't find now, but I > have a hard copy). > They referred the person who was asking about this to Deane Kidd, W7TYR, > ex-TeK employee, and who runs a business supplying manuals for older TeK > scopes. The contact info: Deane Kidd, 27270 S.W. Ladd Hill Rd., > Sherwood, OR 97140, (503) 625-7363 . I also found info regarding Deane Kidd. I'm thinking of contacting him, but I've got way too many projects currently at hand. Here are some of the best links I came across when searching for Tektronix info and parts: Tektronix Reference Materials: http://www.reprise.com/host/tektronix/home/ Stan's Scope Site: http://www.reprise.com/ash/clients2/ Bill's Tektronix 454 Info Page: http://www.reprise.com/host/scopes/ Phil's Vintage Oscilloscopes and Test Equipment: http://www.vaxxine.com/phil/scopes/test.htm Sphere's Used Electronic Test Equipment: http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/ -Toth From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 13 22:53:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20021010180050.00807994@pop.iae.nl> Message-ID: <20021014035446.8847.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kees Stravers wrote: > Hi, > I guess it would be too much to hope that some one has recorded this > program and can capture it to an avi file, so that us foreigners who > don't have this channel can see it too? It seems very interesting! It was just posted in alt.binaries.multimedia. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sun Oct 13 22:58:00 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Moving data from PC to any Classic systems - Suggestions, Ideas, anyone? In-Reply-To: <003301c27226$788b1620$a866fea9@o3e7o6> Message-ID: <3DA9DDAB.12760.E9E3B02@localhost> On 12 Oct 2002 at 15:35, stewart allen wrote: > Hoping as many peoples as there are ideas may respond and all help is > appreciated. Off list if possible @ vze4cykj@verizon.net > > If I downloaded files on my PC for old systems (e.g. Apple ][, Amiga, > Amstrad, Commodore, PCjr, Sinclair, TRS-80, Texas Instruments TI) > > (1)Please describe some ways to move files to any of above systems > assuming they had hard drives or floppy with correct format. Please > note the above are only examples, I mean to include all classic > systems excluding most PC XT systems. (2) Please describe any other > alternative way different from downloading to PC first > > (3)Describe software and hardware that will be needed and know-how's. > When I first started collecting old systems back in the mid 90s, I had the same quandry. The easiest way to do it, I learned, was a direct modem to modem connection between the computers (note, you will need to get a terminal emulator with at least XModem or Kermit for the classic system). Going from memory here... 1: Connect the two modems with a standard phone cord via the LINE jacks (may also me labelled WALL 2: Fire up the terminal programs on both computers. 3: On both systems, enter the command ATX3. This lets you operate without needing a dialtone. 4: On the PC, enter the command ATA. The PC should start to scream as she waits for an incoming signal. 5: On the other system, enter the command ATDT. The two should now start negotiating a connection. And if all goes well, you should see the message CONNECT xxxxx (where xxxxx is the connection speed). 6: You may need to experiment with various terminal settings, such as Local Echo, Full or Half Duplex, etc. Been a while since I last did this. 7: You should now be able to do transfers with whatever protocols both systems have. Once you can get this set up, there are a couple utilities I highly recommend you search for. One is called D2D or D3D or something like that. This is for the Amiga, and actually lets the Amiga read and write MS-DOS disks. Once you have this little utility, you will no longer need to do the modem to modem connection to transfer stuff from the PC to the Amiga. Likewise, if you have a Commodore 128 with a 1571 or 1581 drive, there is a freeware utility called Little Red Reader, which allows you to read and write MS-DOS disks on your Commodore drive. I also seem to recall a similar very simple utility that works with the 1541, but I can't remember at this time what it was called. Oh, and if you have any CP/M based systems, 22Disk is a must-have. That will allow you to read and write a wide array of CP/M formats from your PC. I used it to make KayPro II disks and CP/M-86 disks. It doesn't handle Apple II CP/M though, since Apple's developers, in their infinite lack of wisdom, decided to use GCR encoding instead of MFM. On that track, I've been wondering if there might be a way to read and write Apple II disks on a 1571 or 1581, as those drives use both types of encoding, from what I seem to recall... Anyway, hope this info is of some use to you. -- Scarletdown From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sun Oct 13 22:58:28 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: <200210131414.g9DEEbpe006126@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3DA9DDAA.19519.E9E3833@localhost> On 13 Oct 2002 at 10:14, vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu wrote: > "Scarletdown" wrote: > > I might just build a very minimalist 386 or 486 system from spare > > parts I have lying about here, set it up with FreeDOS or MINIX, and > > make that the console. [...] > > Actually the easiest way to build a 386-based terminal is with MSDOS > (or DRDOS) and kermit. Kermit supports most serial cards and even some > ethernet cards (so you can telnet over TCP/IP). There is even > DOS-based software for mouse support (so you can cut & paste text). > I've got most of the components gathered and ready for assembly. My first choice for this is still MINIX. I need to check the FAQ to determine whether or not this 3COM EtherLink II TP (8 Bit ISA Ethernet adapter) is one of the few NICs supported by MINIX. Then I have to check and see if Token Ring and 3270 are supported. If just one of those is a no go, then I will be using FreeDOS; an open source MS-DOS compatible OS (think of it as to MS-DOS as Linux is to Unix). The system thus far will consist of a 486/DX-33 in a MB with 8 16-BIT ISA slots and 8 MB of RAM, VGA adapter, 16 bit IO card with one floppy controller, one IDE controller, 2 serial ports, and 1 parallel port, a 2nd IO card with 2 serial and 1 parallel port, then an Ethernet adapter and a 3270 adapter (don't have an ISA Token Ring card yet), 3.5" and 5.25" floppies, and dual IDE hard drives (43MB and 84MB respectively). If I end up going with FreeDOS instead of MINIX, the EtherLink II will be replaced with either an EtherLink III or EtherExpress and the II will be used in the PS/2 Model 30, since its slots are all 8 bit ISA. The reason this system will have four COM ports is because in addition to serving as the console for the Cromemco System Two, she will also be the bridge between our various other classics (TI-99/4a, Apple II systems of various models, TRS-80s, KayPros, etc) and the LAN, as those old beasts don't have Ethernet capability and will connect via serial connection. I'm really looking forward to getting this little project started soon. It should make for a few experience points, much like building a FreeSCO router did. :) -- Scarletdown From spc at conman.org Sun Oct 13 23:22:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: <3DA9DDAA.19519.E9E3833@localhost> from "Scarletdown" at Oct 13, 2002 08:55:06 PM Message-ID: <200210140423.AAA12818@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Scarletdown once stated: > > The system thus far will consist of a 486/DX-33 in a MB with 8 16-BIT > ISA slots and 8 MB of RAM, VGA adapter, 16 bit IO card with one > floppy controller, one IDE controller, 2 serial ports, and 1 parallel > port, a 2nd IO card with 2 serial and 1 parallel port, then an > Ethernet adapter and a 3270 adapter (don't have an ISA Token Ring > card yet), 3.5" and 5.25" floppies, and dual IDE hard drives (43MB > and 84MB respectively). If I end up going with FreeDOS instead of > MINIX, the EtherLink II will be replaced with either an EtherLink III > or EtherExpress and the II will be used in the PS/2 Model 30, since > its slots are all 8 bit ISA. Hmmm, Linux 2.0 will run fine on such a system, although getting it installed (personally I use RedHat 5.2) is a bit tricky; I did get it installed on a laptop with 120M harddrive and 4M RAM (although it took the better part of a day and wasn't for the feight of heart---details if anyone wants them). > The reason this system will have four COM ports is because in > addition to serving as the console for the Cromemco System Two, she > will also be the bridge between our various other classics (TI-99/4a, > Apple II systems of various models, TRS-80s, KayPros, etc) and the > LAN, as those old beasts don't have Ethernet capability and will > connect via serial connection. I don't think you'll be able to run all four serial ports at the same time; that is, if they share IRQs you probably won't be able to. I was able to shoehorn in four on my main Linux system, but I had to give each one its own IRQ, and modify the serial driver (that was easier for me than attempting to dig up the required kernel command line arguments). But since I obtained a Cyclades serial board, I haven't had to deal with the stock serial ports 8-) -spc (Wouldn't run anything higher than 2.0 on a 486 though ... ) From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sun Oct 13 23:28:01 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: <200210140423.AAA12818@conman.org> References: <3DA9DDAA.19519.E9E3833@localhost> from "Scarletdown" at Oct 13, 2002 08:55:06 PM Message-ID: <3DA9E4F9.22502.EBAC56D@localhost> On 14 Oct 2002 at 0:23, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > I don't think you'll be able to run all four serial ports at the > same > time; that is, if they share IRQs you probably won't be able to. I > was able to shoehorn in four on my main Linux system, but I had to > give each one its own IRQ, and modify the serial driver (that was > easier for me than attempting to dig up the required kernel command > line arguments). > Fortunately, the second serial card has jumpers for using IRQ 5 and 9 as well. Since there won't be a sound card or a mouse, there shouldn't be any conflicts. -- Scarletdown From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Oct 13 23:38:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: <200210140423.AAA12818@conman.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: Hrm, this is getting a little OT isn't it? > Hmmm, Linux 2.0 will run fine on such a system, although getting it > installed (personally I use RedHat 5.2) is a bit tricky; I did get it > installed on a laptop with 120M harddrive and 4M RAM (although it took > the better part of a day and wasn't for the feight of heart---details if > anyone wants them). I have 486 boxen running both 2.2 and 2.4 kernels, which seem to work much more efficiently than the ancient 2.0 kernels. As far as distributions go, Debian seems to be better suited for installs on small hard drives, but I managed an install of RedHat on a 120MB drive once (and I swore I'd never do it again). > I don't think you'll be able to run all four serial ports at the same > time; that is, if they share IRQs you probably won't be able to. I was > able to shoehorn in four on my main Linux system, but I had to give each > one its own IRQ, and modify the serial driver (that was easier for me > than attempting to dig up the required kernel command line arguments). The 2.2 and 2.4 Linux kernels support IRQ sharing, so it should work "OK" so long as you don't attempt to run the shared ports at very high baud rates. > But since I obtained a Cyclades serial board, I haven't had to deal with > the stock serial ports 8-) I have to agree, intelligent serial cards really help. I use a Digi in one of my systems. -Toth From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sun Oct 13 23:55:00 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes References: Message-ID: <044f01c2733e$12a0cd50$0101a8c0@athlon> In addition to those below, the Tekscopes group on yahoo is worth a look/subscribe - Most of the site owners for the below listed sites are active on this group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes Dave B CH CH NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 4:46 PM Subject: Re: Vintage Scopes d. > > Here are some of the best links I came across when searching for Tektronix > info and parts: > > Tektronix Reference Materials: > http://www.reprise.com/host/tektronix/home/ > > Stan's Scope Site: > http://www.reprise.com/ash/clients2/ > > Bill's Tektronix 454 Info Page: > http://www.reprise.com/host/scopes/ > > Phil's Vintage Oscilloscopes and Test Equipment: > http://www.vaxxine.com/phil/scopes/test.htm > > Sphere's Used Electronic Test Equipment: > http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/ > > -Toth > > From spc at conman.org Mon Oct 14 00:40:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:25:59 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Oct 13, 2002 11:39:12 PM Message-ID: <200210140542.BAA13009@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tothwolf once stated: > > On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > Hrm, this is getting a little OT isn't it? Well, most 486 systems are on topic, and the Linux 2.0 kernel is about half-way to being on topic so ... > > Hmmm, Linux 2.0 will run fine on such a system, although getting it > > installed (personally I use RedHat 5.2) is a bit tricky; I did get it > > installed on a laptop with 120M harddrive and 4M RAM (although it took > > the better part of a day and wasn't for the feight of heart---details if > > anyone wants them). > > I have 486 boxen running both 2.2 and 2.4 kernels, which seem to work much > more efficiently than the ancient 2.0 kernels. As far as distributions go, > Debian seems to be better suited for installs on small hard drives, but I > managed an install of RedHat on a 120MB drive once (and I swore I'd never > do it again). I tried compiling a 2.4 kernel for one of my systems (static compilation, no modules---I tend to forgoe modules for servers) and it was (with the same settings) about twice the size as the 2.0 kernel I'm currently running. My 486 systems are a bit tight with memory so that is a concern for me. And yes, I did a RedHat on 120MB (okay, more like 112MB---had to use 8M for swap 8-) but like I said, it wasn't something I'd like to repeat any time soon. > The 2.2 and 2.4 Linux kernels support IRQ sharing, so it should work "OK" > so long as you don't attempt to run the shared ports at very high baud > rates. What about the hardware? -spc (Thought the PC hardware didn't allow sharing of IRQs ... ) From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Mon Oct 14 00:41:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal At&t/WE Blit In-Reply-To: <20021013121458.A25829@eskimo.eskimo.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021013174312.02617598@kerberos.davies.net.au> <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> <3DA82F1A.2020501@tiac.net> <3DA849F8.3E846E4C@ecubics.com> <001301c27242$5e66d240$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> <4.3.2.7.2.20021013174312.02617598@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021014154318.02432128@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 12:14 PM 13/10/2002 -0700, Derek Peschel wrote: >On Sun, Oct 13, 2002 at 05:45:32PM +1000, Huw Davies wrote: > > monitor installed. The only problem with a VT05 is that it > > is an upper/lower case terminal with uppercase only display. > > This lead to interesting problems with earlier versions of > > tops-10 which didn't understand lower case versions of commands: > > > > .dir > > ?dir? > >If the display was uppercase only, wouldn't that have been > >.DIR >?DIR? > >(and I can see how that would have driven even the most >experienced person insane)? Indeed you're right and you can see that the insanity from that VT05 20 years ago still persists :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Mon Oct 14 00:57:01 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: <200210140542.BAA13009@conman.org> References: from "Tothwolf" at Oct 13, 2002 11:39:12 PM Message-ID: <3DA9F99B.30106.F0B609A@localhost> On 14 Oct 2002 at 1:41, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Tothwolf once stated: > > > > On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > > > Hrm, this is getting a little OT isn't it? > > Well, most 486 systems are on topic, and the Linux 2.0 kernel is > about > half-way to being on topic so ... > Also, I was talking about using MINIX as the OS for my Cromemco Command Center; and MINIX is a somewhat classic *NIX OS. So both the MINIX factor, and especially the Cromemco angle help keep this on topic. I just did a bit of snooping and it seems that although the 3Com EtherLink II is supported under MINIX, there is no Token Ring or 3270 support. Ethernet is the only network supported. Therefore, I am now looking at the possibility of using Coherent as the OS. Hopefully it will meet my networking needs. I really don't want to go with FreeDOS or MS-DOS actually, since I realized that there is no login/password feature. I will consider some sort of minimalist Linux implementation as well. FreeSCO is a prime example of one of these Tiny Linux systems. However, FreeSCO would not be suitable for me, as it is intended just to be used as a router, and I do not think that Token Ring or 3270 are supported there either. Ah well. Back to the hunt. -- Scarletdown From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 14 01:46:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: Megan "Re: Favorite terminal" (Oct 13, 14:12) References: <200210122336.TAA65858204@shell.TheWorld.com> <200210131812.OAA66416931@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <10210132356.ZM1588@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 13, 14:12, Megan wrote: > > >Jerome Fine replies: > > > >While I have a number of versions of the source for SST (Super > >Star Trek) which was first written around the same time, I don't > >think I have the FORTRAN IV source for the SST.SAV and > >SST.DOC files (well obviously I do have the source for the > >DOC file since that is the source) that were also released > >around 1979 as well. Those two files are at dbit under games > >for RT-11 unless you want me to e-mail them. > > > >Might you know where the FORTRAN IV source for that > >version might be found. Also, I suspect that the 1979 version > >of SST must have been compiled using V3.0x of RT-11. > > Your message was in response to my message about Spacewar on > a GT40... I wasn't talking about Star Trek or Super Star Trek. > They are entirely different games... > > I've not seen SST for quite a while... I might have a copy > somewhere in my disk archives, but they are not currently > accessible (being in storage)... I'm pretty sure there is > a copy *somewhere* on the net... Jerome, have you looked at the FORTRAN IV version of Star Trek on my page at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/startrek/ ? It's Kay Fisher's (from DEC) translation of Mike Mayfield's program. It's not the same as the version at dbit, though. If that one is a 10x10 grid instead of the classic 8x8, it's probably the UT Super Star Trek released through DECUS. You can probably find it in the DECUS catalogue. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 14 02:34:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: <3DA9F99B.30106.F0B609A@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Scarletdown wrote: > I just did a bit of snooping and it seems that although the 3Com > EtherLink II is supported under MINIX, there is no Token Ring or 3270 > support. Ethernet is the only network supported. The EtherLink II is quite inefficient as far as ISA ethernet cards go too. The 3C501 is probably the only thing worse than a 3C503. My favorite ISA card is still the 3C509B (EtherLink III), but the original 3C509 works quiet well too. > Therefore, I am now looking at the possibility of using Coherent as the > OS. Hopefully it will meet my networking needs. I really don't want to > go with FreeDOS or MS-DOS actually, since I realized that there is no > login/password feature. I will consider some sort of minimalist Linux > implementation as well. FreeSCO is a prime example of one of these Tiny > Linux systems. However, FreeSCO would not be suitable for me, as it is > intended just to be used as a router, and I do not think that Token Ring > or 3270 are supported there either. If you are looking for something with lots of support for network hardware, Linux seems to be the way to go. Linux network drivers are quite diverse, and unsupported cards tend to be the exception. I often still prefer *BSD for dedicated servers, but in those cases, more common hardware is usually in use. I investigated FreeSCO, LRP, and several derivatives for one of my 486 router/gateway systems. None of them were exactly what I was looking for, mostly because the software they contained wasn't up to date. In the end, I ended up stripping down a Debian install to the essentials, and then built a custom kernel with support for the different interfaces and networks I wanted to bridge. I'm fairly sure I could even add 3270 support to that router if I ever have the need. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 14 02:49:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: <200210140542.BAA13009@conman.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Tothwolf once stated: > > > I have 486 boxen running both 2.2 and 2.4 kernels, which seem to work > > much more efficiently than the ancient 2.0 kernels. As far as > > distributions go, Debian seems to be better suited for installs on > > small hard drives, but I managed an install of RedHat on a 120MB drive > > once (and I swore I'd never do it again). > > I tried compiling a 2.4 kernel for one of my systems (static > compilation, no modules---I tend to forgoe modules for servers) and it > was (with the same settings) about twice the size as the 2.0 kernel I'm > currently running. My 486 systems are a bit tight with memory so that > is a concern for me. I did forget to mention something quite important about the 2.2 kernels when running them on older hardware. Kernels of the 2.2 series prior to 2.2.19 or so have a tendency to act *very* slow on these systems. I never could track the problem down, but I think it was something to do with IRQ or DMA handling. The problem did not show up on 586 and later hardware, and it still puzzles me. I had no trouble at all once I installed 2.2.20 and later. Did you happen to notice how much memory the kernel may have freed at bootup? I've not noticed a significant increase in terms of memory usage from 2.2 to 2.4. Both 2.2 and 2.4 can be compiled much smaller than 2.0, if you disable everything you don't really need. Both versions are much preferred over 2.0 when used for embedded applications... > > The 2.2 and 2.4 Linux kernels support IRQ sharing, so it should work > > "OK" so long as you don't attempt to run the shared ports at very high > > baud rates. > > What about the hardware? Some cards handle it better than others. I only had a few cards that didn't want to get along. Strangely enough, for older cards, I had the best luck with cards that had real 16550A uarts on them instead of custom multifunction I/O chips. Many of the newer multi-I/O cards can cope with shared IRQs too. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 14 03:11:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Paging: Craig Smith Message-ID: Sorry to bother folks, please contact me off list. I tried the last email address I had, which is ip500@home.com, but since @home dumped so many customers, I'm not surprised that address no longer works. -Toth From red at bears.org Mon Oct 14 03:14:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Therefore, I am now looking at the possibility of using Coherent as the > > OS. Hopefully it will meet my networking needs. You will probably be disappointed, as Coherent never supported TCP/IP. ok r. From gil at vauxelectronics.com Mon Oct 14 03:21:14 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021014012534.00930660@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi Joe: At 09:37 PM 10/13/02, you wrote: > I'm sending a copy of this reply directly to you as well as replying on the list so I can be sure that you get a copy. Thanks. I subcribed to cctalk, and will dump cctech once it seems like posts are coming through -- looks like I'll miss stuff otherwise. > No, the 85B has more memory (32k vs 16k) than the 85 (aka 85A) but it's standard memory and not RAMDISK memory. The E-Disk ROM MAY be able to convert all or part of that to RAMDISK but it would leave you with no user memory. FWIW The 128k memory cartridge is strickly for RAMDISK memory, it can't be used for regular memory. Ahh. Knew there was something about ramdisk in there. I actually have a 64K expansion card. I opened it up to find a second row of chips not installed, so I suppose I could make it a 128K if ever needed. >Also I'm pretty certain that 85B does not have the I/O and Mass Storage ROMs built-in. The HP-85F has those built in and it looks like an 85B and says 85B on the front but it should have a metal tag on the back that identifies it as an 85F. The 85F were delivered as part of various HP test systems and AFIK they were never listed separately in the HP catalogs. That's probably why few people have heard of them and may be confusing their capabilities with standard 85Bs. The 85F is a nice catch IMO, you gain two ROMs and don't use up any of the ports on the back. I have not heard of an 85F before. I was pulling my 9915A apart, and found six ROM locations under the module card cage. I also just noticed a post from someone about it too. There is an I/O rom and a 9915-specific rom, and four spare locations. > I'm sure they would, there are quite a few 9915s out there but AFIK I have the only keyboard around. I'll see if I can find the schematic. If I can't I guess I'll have to re-create it. But me every week or two and make sure that I do it else I'm liable to get busy with other projects and forget it. Well, I have been poking around with the keyboard connector, and will post my findings to the list. There are some locations I can't figure out, so your assistance may still be required. > How did your buddy manage to read the HP ROMs? With the Assembler? I'll have to prod him to elaborate on the list -- I'm not sure if he is subscribed yet or not. thanks, gil ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Mon Oct 14 03:22:01 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DAA1BA4.19418.F90586D@localhost> On 14 Oct 2002 at 4:15, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > > > Therefore, I am now looking at the possibility of using Coherent > > > as the OS. Hopefully it will meet my networking needs. > > You will probably be disappointed, as Coherent never supported TCP/IP. Yeah. I discovered that shortly after my last post. How about FreeBSD? Would that work on such a miniscule setup? From gil at vauxelectronics.com Mon Oct 14 04:25:40 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021014022918.0098dda0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi vp: >From an old 9915A brochure: >Control Signals Interface: >Connector - 15 pin D-subminiature connector, ...(snip)... So the Control connector provides some handy ways to restart the 9915 remotely. I was thinking it might have been a mini-gpio with some program-readable i/o lines. Oh well. >The 9915 has sockets for two sets of ROMs: The EPROM card you mentioned >(which can accomodate up to 32K using 2516, 2716, or 2732 EPROMs) which >can store user application programs. The second set is a bank of 6 >sockets for HP-85 ROM MODULES (white letters). These are the same modules >that plug into the HP Series 80 ROM drawer (HP 82936A). The default >configuration of the 9915 includes the 00085-15003 I/O ROM and the >98151A Program Development ROM (which contains instructions for controlling >the front panel LEDs and switches). > >The second bank is located under the expansion card cage. You can >get to them by unscrewing one screw in the back of the 9915 (under >the bottom slot) and one on the Operator Interface card. I just found these rom locations as well. Hidden, but saves a rom drawer slot. >With just the I/O ROM even if you get an HP-IB card you will not be able >to use disks, you also need the 00085-15001 Mass Storage ROM for accessing >old-style Amigo drives or the (unobtainable) 00085-15013 EMS ROM that >allows access to the SS-80 drives (e.g. 9122, 9133D/H etc.). DOES ANYONE HAVE AN EMS ROM? It would be nice to get you to dump the binary for possibly putting it into an eprom. John Shadbolt (are you on this list John?) has managed to read an ASM rom, and burn an eprom. It then ran from the Prog-rom-module card in and 85. >Given the EPROM card, it may be easier to make a small ROM emulator board that >allows data to be uploaded via a serial interface. I thought about a little flash pic or something that could emulate the rom signals, but that looked non-trivial. But a configurable 2732 emulator, hmm, that's probably even been done. Problem is, for an 85, it's hard to find the prog-rom card to run an eprom anyway. I've been looking at a prog-rom module here, for possible pcb duplication, but it is stuffed with ttl and a few house-numbered parts. At least it does not have a programmed micro or custom "translator" chip like the serial card. DOES ANYONE HAVE A SCHEMATIC OR OTHER DOCS FOR THE PROGRAMMABLE-ROM-MODULE? >The keyboard is simply an 8 by 10 matrix buffered and debounced, and >provides 76 cross points. The shift, control and caps lock keys are provided >as dedicated lines. Well, I started peeking at the operator interface card in the 9915. First off, it looks the the video connector may just go to the edge connector, so the video may be available (inside) even without the card. The chips connecting to the keyboard and control connectors were house numbers, so I just poked the keyboard connector with a scope, to guess at the matrix i/o lines. Then, after a bit of playing with a couple of jumper wires (and the incorrect but usable tv monitor), I have determined most of the keyboard matrix: 2 3 4 5 6 7/8 9 10 11 12 13 14 down 8 I K M , L O 9 left 15 up 7 U J N . ; P 0 right 16 K4? 6 Y H B / ' ( - RPL 17 K3? 5 T G V LIST? CR? ) = -CHAR 18 K2? 4 R F C RUN PAUSE CONT \ ROLL 19 K1? 3 E D X + -LINE BS LOAD 20 K-LBL 2 W S Z - * ) ( STORE 21 1 Q A SP / ^ 22 SHIFT 23 CTRL 24 CAPS-LK Where the +-*/()^ keys in the bottom right are the numeric pad versions. The numeric pad number keys were not found. Pins 7/8 (connected together inside) are used with lines 22/23/24, but I'm sure don't connect to the rest of the matrix at all. There are still a few unknown keys in the main matrix though. Pin 25 use is unknown (2.5V). Pin 1 is chassis ground. It's too bad this wasn't a parallel interface or something, since an adapter to a serial keyboard would have been easy. I suppose an adapter could use an array of analog-switches to drive the keyboard port, but it might be easier to find an old keyboard with isolated switch contacts, and wire it appropriately. gil ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Oct 14 07:38:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <20021014035446.8847.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <1.5.4.32.20021010180050.00807994@pop.iae.nl> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021014074221.09a76788@ubanproductions.com> Can you please supply a url? --tnx --tom At 08:54 PM 10/13/2002 -0700, you wrote: >--- Kees Stravers wrote: > > Hi, > > I guess it would be too much to hope that some one has recorded this > > program and can capture it to an avi file, so that us foreigners who > > don't have this channel can see it too? It seems very interesting! > >It was just posted in alt.binaries.multimedia. > >-ethan > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More >http://faith.yahoo.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Oct 14 07:42:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: A quandry.... Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AEF2@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >It all depends on wether you want the data to be still "mostly "there if >something goes wrong with the file. >AFAIK PDF and TIFF will be totally unusable with any one byte missing. >whereas HTML XML and other text based format will still have useable and >recognizable data. The other way of looking at this is that your text/html files could be utter garbage and you would not know any better. Or more likely, one or two characters could get corrupted and produce something that is still readable but incorrect ... The real advantage of text (I think) is that we are still likely to be able to do something with it 100 years from now. The medium is most likely to be the problem (7-track tapes anyone..?) MD5SUM and CDcheck will help detect errors years down the line (I'm assuming that you write stuff to CD and immediately verify against the original sources ... and obviously you keep duplicates of all the really important CDs ...) If getting the stuff back matters, you can try looking at the various tools that can produce "parity files" for you. I think they are geared towards having N files of a set size and adding P parity files to regenerate lost data, but it's a start. Much better to keep a master copy of your CDs somewhere IMHO. Antonio From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Oct 14 08:03:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: HP1000 Computer System References: <3DA72EB4.000003.01412@piii850m> Message-ID: <009701c27382$2eb12820$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021014/38b5d72a/attachment.gif From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 14 08:25:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021014074221.09a76788@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20021014132626.84353.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tom Uban wrote: > Can you please supply a url? news:alt.binaries.multimedia You'll need a news reader, preferably one tuned for binary snarfing like Agent or Newsbin, and an account/feed to a News Server (typically news.whateveryourispis.com). It's about 120MB. > At 08:54 PM 10/13/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >It was just posted in alt.binaries.multimedia. > > > >-ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 14 08:54:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: HP Integral Re: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <33138.64.169.63.74.1034565684.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com > References: <200210101027.g9AARmdh016726@codex.cis.upenn.edu> <200210101027.g9AARmdh016726@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021014093047.4c4fb8c4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:21 PM 10/13/02 -0700, Eric wrote: >The fact that the PCB part number in an HP product has a particular rev >level almost never has anything to do with the suffix of the model number >(e.g., 9915A or 9915B). For instance, the HP-95C and HP-95LX, which >aren't even *similar* products, have 00095-xxxxx parts, with various >PCB revs, as does the HP-9807A Integral PC. (Maybe the Integral was >originally going to be designated an HP-95 with some other letter >suffix?) In the HP catalogs it's called a HP 9807! For the ones of you that aren't familar with HP stuff. The HP 98xx series was their desktop calculator line. They started with the 9805, then the 9810, 9820 and 9830 were released together, later the 9815, 9825, and 9845 were released simultanously. The 9821, 9831 and 9835A & Bs were intermideate machines. Later they came out with Motorola 68xxx based machines called the 9816, 9826, 9836 and 9920. The Integral doesn't fit into any of those series anywhere and has NOTHING in common with any of them other than having a 68000 CPU. In fact, the IPC was designated as a replacement for the HP-85! You'll find lots of quirky things in HP's model and part numbers! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 14 08:54:52 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021014022918.0098dda0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021014095901.44b7f746@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:29 AM 10/14/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hi vp: > >>From an old 9915A brochure: >>Control Signals Interface: >>Connector - 15 pin D-subminiature connector, ...(snip)... > >So the Control connector provides some handy ways to restart the 9915 >remotely. I was thinking it might have been a mini-gpio with some >program-readable i/o lines. Oh well. I was thinking that it did have some non-dedicated lines that could b eused like that but I could be wrong. > > >>The 9915 has sockets for two sets of ROMs: The EPROM card you mentioned >>(which can accomodate up to 32K using 2516, 2716, or 2732 EPROMs) which >>can store user application programs. The second set is a bank of 6 >>sockets for HP-85 ROM MODULES (white letters). These are the same modules >>that plug into the HP Series 80 ROM drawer (HP 82936A). The default >>configuration of the 9915 includes the 00085-15003 I/O ROM and the >>98151A Program Development ROM (which contains instructions for controlling >>the front panel LEDs and switches). >> >>The second bank is located under the expansion card cage. You can >>get to them by unscrewing one screw in the back of the 9915 (under >>the bottom slot) and one on the Operator Interface card. > >I just found these rom locations as well. Hidden, but saves a rom drawer >slot. > > >>With just the I/O ROM even if you get an HP-IB card you will not be able >>to use disks, you also need the 00085-15001 Mass Storage ROM for accessing >>old-style Amigo drives or the (unobtainable) 00085-15013 EMS ROM that >>allows access to the SS-80 drives (e.g. 9122, 9133D/H etc.). > >DOES ANYONE HAVE AN EMS ROM? I do :-) It would be nice to get you to dump the >binary for possibly putting it into an eprom. John Shadbolt (are you on >this list John?) has managed to read an ASM rom, and burn an eprom. It >then ran from the Prog-rom-module card in and 85. The problem is that the Prom-ROM modules are just as rare! > > >>Given the EPROM card, it may be easier to make a small ROM emulator board >that >>allows data to be uploaded via a serial interface. > >I thought about a little flash pic or something that could emulate the rom >signals, but that looked non-trivial. But a configurable 2732 emulator, >hmm, that's probably even been done. > >Problem is, for an 85, it's hard to find the prog-rom card to run an eprom >anyway. I've been looking at a prog-rom module here, for possible pcb >duplication, but it is stuffed with ttl and a few house-numbered parts. At >least it does not have a programmed micro or custom "translator" chip like >the serial card. DOES ANYONE HAVE A SCHEMATIC OR OTHER DOCS FOR THE >PROGRAMMABLE-ROM-MODULE? I've never seen any and I had (have?) the docs that came with it. > >>The keyboard is simply an 8 by 10 matrix buffered and debounced, and >>provides 76 cross points. The shift, control and caps lock keys are provided >>as dedicated lines. Correct. > >Well, I started peeking at the operator interface card in the 9915. First >off, it looks the the video connector may just go to the edge connector, so >the video may be available (inside) even without the card. > >The chips connecting to the keyboard and control connectors were house >numbers, so I just poked the keyboard connector with a scope, to guess at >the matrix i/o lines. Then, after a bit of playing with a couple of jumper >wires (and the incorrect but usable tv monitor), I have determined most of >the keyboard matrix: > > 2 3 4 5 6 7/8 9 10 11 12 13 > >14 down 8 I K M , L O 9 left >15 up 7 U J N . ; P 0 right >16 K4? 6 Y H B / ' ( - RPL >17 K3? 5 T G V LIST? CR? ) = -CHAR >18 K2? 4 R F C RUN PAUSE CONT \ ROLL >19 K1? 3 E D X + -LINE BS LOAD >20 K-LBL 2 W S Z - * ) ( STORE >21 1 Q A SP / ^ >22 SHIFT >23 CTRL >24 CAPS-LK > >Where the +-*/()^ keys in the bottom right are the numeric pad versions. >The numeric pad number keys were not found. Pins 7/8 (connected together >inside) are used with lines 22/23/24, but I'm sure don't connect to the >rest of the matrix at all. There are still a few unknown keys in the main >matrix though. Pin 25 use is unknown (2.5V). Pin 1 is chassis ground. Sheesh. I guess I'd better go get mine out and check. I have a day off today so I might as well do that. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 14 08:55:22 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: HP-75 Re: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <33150.64.169.63.74.1034566284.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com > References: <3.0.32.20021011134430.00a6a5b0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> <3.0.32.20021011134430.00a6a5b0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021014093918.4c4fb7e4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:31 PM 10/13/02 -0700, you wrote: >gil smith wrote about HP-8x ROMs: >> The roms have +12V, +6V, and -5V >> power. There is an 8-bit bi-directional bus, and four non-overlapping >> 12V clock signals. There is a "load-memory-address" line, a "power-on" >> line, "read" and "read-control" lines, and even a "write" line (I don't >> know why write is available on a rom). >> This all leads me to believe the roms are pretty specialized. > >Yup, custom for the HP-8x, and CMOS versions for the HP-75. AFAIK they >aren't used in anything else, although sometimes Corvallis division >custom parts wound up in instruments, like the HP-35 chipset (with >different ROM code) in the 1722A oscilliscope. For the ones of you that aren't aware of it, the handheld HP-75 is a repackaged HP-85 with CMOS circuitry. They're so similar that if you ordered one of the Assembley Language packages that they even included some of the HP-85 manuals! The HP-85 and HP-75 were both designed by the Loveland Colorado instrument group. HP adopted the HP-75 over the STRENUOUS objections of the calculator group then located in Corvallis Oregon. The HP-75 was the only calculator produced by HP that was designed by anyone outside of the calculator group. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 14 08:55:56 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021014012534.00930660@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021014095032.4c4fb7de@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:25 AM 10/14/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Joe: > >At 09:37 PM 10/13/02, you wrote: >> I'm sending a copy of this reply directly to you as well as replying on >the list so I can be sure that you get a copy. > >Thanks. I subcribed to cctalk, and will dump cctech once it seems like >posts are coming through -- looks like I'll miss stuff otherwise. > > >> No, the 85B has more memory (32k vs 16k) than the 85 (aka 85A) but it's >standard memory and not RAMDISK memory. The E-Disk ROM MAY be able to >convert all or part of that to RAMDISK but it would leave you with no user >memory. FWIW The 128k memory cartridge is strickly for RAMDISK memory, it >can't be used for regular memory. > >Ahh. Knew there was something about ramdisk in there. I actually have a >64K expansion card. Right, that's also memory for a RAMDISK. I wasn't aware that it had the extra sockets in it. Do you know what type memory it uses? The 128K cartridges are in high demand, it would be nice to upgrade the 64k cartridges. I opened it up to find a second row of chips not >installed, so I suppose I could make it a 128K if ever needed. > > >>Also I'm pretty certain that 85B does not have the I/O and Mass Storage >ROMs built-in. The HP-85F has those built in and it looks like an 85B and >says 85B on the front but it should have a metal tag on the back that >identifies it as an 85F. The 85F were delivered as part of various HP test >systems and AFIK they were never listed separately in the HP catalogs. >That's probably why few people have heard of them and may be confusing >their capabilities with standard 85Bs. The 85F is a nice catch IMO, you >gain two ROMs and don't use up any of the ports on the back. > >I have not heard of an 85F before. I was pulling my 9915A apart, and found >six ROM locations under the module card cage. I also just noticed a post >from someone about it too. There is an I/O rom and a 9915-specific rom, >and four spare locations. The second ROM is either a Program Developement ROM or a Matrix ROM, I forget which. The extra sockets are there for the user to add custom ROMs. It appears that HP expected the 9915 owners to develope their own programs and burn them into ROM for the 9915 but it never happened. The ONLY person that I'v ever talked to that had done it was someone from HP. It costs a bundle to get all the stuff that you needed. At the very least you'd need the Program Developemnt package, Assembly Language ROMs and programs, Serial interface, EPROM burner and a HP-85 to do the development on. PLUS the 9915! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 14 08:56:25 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: HP 1980 and Deane Kidd Re: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021013225329.0100ea78@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <007401c27307$380aea80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021014091512.4c4f8cee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:53 PM 10/13/02 -0400, Carlos wrote: > >Argh, my main scope is a Tek 2213... though I still use my hp1980 >sometimes. How do you like the 1980? I've thought about picking one up just to play with the HP-IB control and data aquisition. I think I have some HP software here somewhere for the 1980 but I don't remember what system it runs on. > >>I've since located a source for the special P6120 probes, and am now in >>the process of buying them. I have not yet located the Service/Operators >>manual(s). > >I have a photocopy of the operator's manual. At some point I was >also looking for the service manual and I found a message in the >archives of some high-frequency hobbyist mailing list (which >I can't find now, but I have a hard copy). >They referred the person who was asking about this to >Deane Kidd, W7TYR, ex-TeK employee, and who runs a business >supplying manuals for older TeK scopes. The contact info: >Deane Kidd, 27270 S.W. Ladd Hill Rd., Sherwood, OR 97140, >(503) 625-7363 . Deane is MR. Tektronix. I doubt there's anyone in the country that has as many parts and docs for the Tektronix has he does. Deane worked for Tektroninx for about 40 years and must have been collecting parts and manuals the whole time! If he doesn't have it then you're not likely to find it. Joe > >carlos. > > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Oct 14 08:57:01 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: small FreeBSD (was Re: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System)) In-Reply-To: "Scarletdown"'s message of "Mon, 14 Oct 2002 01:19:32 -0700" References: <3DAA1BA4.19418.F90586D@localhost> Message-ID: <200210141338.g9EDc6Wf072326@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Scarletdown" wrote: > Yeah. I discovered that shortly after my last post. How about > FreeBSD? Would that work on such a miniscule setup? You may need more than 8MB of RAM to run FreeBSD versions >= 3. 2.2.x will run in 8MB, maybe as little as 4MB (I'm thinking the "5MB" requirement on the CD jewel-box insert had to do with running sysinstall from a RAMdisk filesystem). ObClassicmp: 486/33, 8MB RAM 200MB HD, running FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE of 23 Apr 1998 and in use as dial-on-demand PPP router w/NAT. I've had the hardware for >10 years so it must be on topic. There's been some recent discussion on the freebsd-stable mailing list about how to do a small installation, where "small" would appear to be in the 14-83MB range. Take a look at (long URL): These folks are mostly discussing version 4.x on later iron with more RAM but comparable disk space (sometimes with flash EEPROM imitating disk). There's also the PicoBSD project whose aim is (or at least used to be) a floppy-sized installation based on FreeBSD. I think you'll find that this is another experience-building project. -Frank McConnell From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 14 10:32:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Looking for Delrina WinFax Pro 4.0 ($$$) Message-ID: I'm looking for a copy of Delrina WinFax Pro 4.0 in the retail box. I am more interested in the box than the software, so just having the software won't do. This is a bounty item, so anyone who can come up with this will get some $$$. Please reply directly to me at . Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 14 10:54:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: My First S-100 System In-Reply-To: <34493.64.169.63.74.1034535034.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20021014155533.35213.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Smith wrote: > Speaking of Cromemco cards, and only using "standard chips", does anyone > have a source for the TMS3417, used on the Cromemco Dazzler? Google only > turns up a single mention of it, on a German page. "Standard chips" > aren't necessarily all that easy to find. (But much easier to find than > gate arrays and other ASICs.) Is that some sort of video chip (like a 6845) or a character generator? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 14 11:11:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Test. Ignore In-Reply-To: <15ae01c27298$aed9cce0$13912a3e@sergio> References: <15ae01c27298$aed9cce0$13912a3e@sergio> Message-ID: <3360932626.20021014110723@subatomix.com> On Sunday, October 13, 2002, SP wrote: > Thanks. Sergio. You know, your messages would show up faster if you would subscribe. If you don't want all the mail, you can use batch mode or turn off mail delivery altogether. Either way, you would avoid being stuck in the moderation queue for days. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 14 11:30:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: A quandry.... In-Reply-To: <002101c271a4$702a70c0$0264640a@auradon.com> References: <002101c271a4$702a70c0$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <1662101216.20021014112652@subatomix.com> On Friday, October 11, 2002, Sue & Francois wrote: > AFAIK PDF and TIFF will be totally unusable with any one byte missing. While that is probably true for certain bytes (e.g. metadata), I'm almost sure that other bytes could be mangled with little effect in both PDF and TIFF format. You might have a 'q' instead of an 'A' or a black pixel instead of a white pixel. HTML isn't as invulnerable as you think. Screw up a key '<' character and your document is dead. For most manuals, with diagrams and pictures, I vote for PDF. If the document is completely textual, ASCII text may be a better choice. TIFF is horrible; many programs I've tried don't handle multi-page TIFFs. Either they display only the first page (Photoshop) or just blow chunks and die. I've found that Paint Shop Pro does it right. Acrobat 5 will also convert multi-page TIFFs to PDF for you. I would have known for sure if my employer hadn't gone under last month. My next big project there was to get grokky with the PDF format. It's a monster; the spec is several inches thick. -- Jeffrey Sharp From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Oct 14 11:33:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: HP 1980 and Deane Kidd Re: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021014091512.4c4f8cee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.2.32.20021013225329.0100ea78@pop1.epm.net.co> <007401c27307$380aea80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021014123045.00f471f4@pop1.epm.net.co> At 09:15 AM 10/14/02, you wrote: >At 10:53 PM 10/13/02 -0400, Carlos wrote: >>though I still use my hp1980 >>sometimes. > How do you like the 1980? I've thought about picking one up just to play with the HP-IB control and data aquisition. I think I have some HP software here somewhere for the 1980 but I don't remember what system it runs on. It is okay as an instrument, but I don't like the ergonomics; in fact, I hate them. Which is why I use mostly the TeK 2213. Sometimes I even prefer to dust off my hp180 instead of the hp1980b. >> The contact info: >>Deane Kidd, 27270 S.W. Ladd Hill Rd., Sherwood, OR 97140, >>(503) 625-7363 . > Deane is MR. Tektronix. I doubt there's anyone in the country that has as many parts and docs for the Tektronix has he does. Deane worked for Tektroninx for about 40 years and must have been collecting parts and manuals the whole time! If he doesn't have it then you're not likely to find it. > > Joe Does anybody have email contact info for him? This thread has reminded me about getting the service manual for the 2213... carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 14 11:50:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: small FreeBSD (was Re: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System)) In-Reply-To: <200210141338.g9EDc6Wf072326@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <3DAA1BA4.19418.F90586D@localhost> <200210141338.g9EDc6Wf072326@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <2563271038.20021014114622@subatomix.com> On Monday, October 14, 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > You may need more than 8MB of RAM to run FreeBSD versions >= 3. I did 3.4 in 8MB, IIRC. It was a 486-class SBC with 8MB RAM and an 8MB DiskOnChip. > There's been some recent discussion on the freebsd-stable mailing list > about how to do a small installation, where "small" would appear to be in > the 14-83MB range. At one time I was working on a distribution-maker for FreeBSD. You wrote one file that was a complete distro config, and you handed it to my program, which would do all the build/package work and spit out a disk/ROM image. I had a working prototype version, but was pulled off the project by my employer, who needed me to work on other things. I called it TinyBSD, because it was more generically applicable and configurable than PicoBSD which, in truth, was inextricably coupled to the idea of floppy disks. I still have the domain name tinybsd\.(com|net|org) registered. Getting paid to work on embedded FreeBSD was wonderful while it lasted. It's a pipe dream, but I would give away all my classiccmps if I could only have a steady position doing that again. > There's also the PicoBSD project whose aim is (or at least used to be) a > floppy-sized installation based on FreeBSD. If it's anything like PicoBSD used to be, it is useful only as a learning tool -- learning how to do it the right way. :-( The upshot of this is that, with moderate knowledge of UNIX, you can learn how to create a custom FreeBSD distro in an afternoon, reading the PicoBSD shell scripts. -- Jeffrey Sharp From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Oct 14 11:51:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: SIPPs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3DAAAFDC.26442.40D17@localhost> Yeah that was me, but I need to install 4 matched chips and it's a long way to New Zealand. :^) Thanks anyways. Lawrence > > I recall someone asking about SIPPs the other day. Was it on this list ? > I found 3x 30 pin SIMM -> SIPP converters in my junk box if that is > out any help. > > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 14 12:04:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor Message-ID: I would doubt AT&T handles support for a 3400, since it is an MP-RAS machine, and I *know* NCR retained MP-RAS... I'm fairly certain that I saw System 3400 docs on NCRs website when I was looking for Tower manuals.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 14 12:21:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Logic Analyzer pods Re: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021014132625.478f6fd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> > >At 08:20 PM 10/13/02 -0400, you wrote: >>> Typically I think they came with the matching probe >>> fixtures, but you only have to know what bits to hook for the status word >>in >>> order to use them with the standard probes. >> >>I found some informatyion on the probes tucked into the back of the 16510A >>documentation, >>and this statement may not be correct. It's possible that the probes may >>decode some >>states in hardware, and that the IAs may depend on this decoding. But it's >>not 100% >>clear in the documentation. >> > > I checked the description in the HP catalog and it implies the same thing but it's not clear about it. I've run across a few pods, I should grab one and open it up and see it there's anything inside. Another thing to add to the "To Do" list! > > Joe I dug around this morning and found two logic analyzer pods/CPU adapters. These are boxs that you plug the pod of the logic analyzer pods directly into and they usually have a cable that plugs into the CPU socket of the UUT. When using these you don't use the flying wire leads and grabbers. One is the HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor in the HP 10269B General Purpose Probe Interface. This is for the HP 1630 and 1631 series LAs. This particular preprocessor is used for monitoring RS-449, RS-232 or HP-IB busses and acquiring data directly from the bus. You can replace the Bus Preprocessor with various CPU adapters. I opened both of these up and the 10269 doesn't have any parts in it other than cables, PC boards and various connectors. However the Bus Preprocessor is full of ICs, including a Z-80 CPU. The other logic analyzer pods/CPU adapter is a HP 10277 and is for the HP 1610 sereis LAs. It's a single unit and it doesn't have any active parts in it. However it has connectors for ribbon cables to connect the the test bewing tested and I don't have the cables so it's POSSIBLE that there may be some active parts in the cable or something attached to the other end of it. Joe From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 14 12:26:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011104844.023784d0@pc> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011104844.023784d0@pc> Message-ID: <6365430454.20021014122221@subatomix.com> On Friday, October 11, 2002, John Foust wrote: > I've created a web page to publicize and discuss the horrible > misinterpretation ... http://www.threedee.com/jcm/cereal/ Okay, here are my additions: Outside of the 'ENIAC building', there is a guy using a PC-like machine. Those, of course, did not exist in 1945. And the girl running to the building: her skirt is drawn way too short for the period, and she looks like she is either writhing in pain or playing left-handed air guitar. Air guitar did not exist in 1945. Also, it looks like she is running *very* fast. Doesn't she know she's going to be hurt when she runs into the building? Why is the 3.5" floppy consoling the 5.25" floppy? Why is the 5.25" floppy shaky? And I thought that floppies were floppy because of the media inside, not the outer shell. After all, they are floppy _disks_, not floppy squares. -- Jeffrey Sharp From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 14 12:27:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: <3DA9DDAA.19519.E9E3833@localhost> Message-ID: It all seems rather elaborate for a dumb terminal! Y'all seem to be moving from building a terminal, into building a network server! Why not XTs with serial ports? If you are THAT hung up on avoiding MS-DOS (I don't think that MICROS~1 really got truly evil until about 3.00), why not just write a trivial terminal emulation program and put it in the bootstrap? On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Scarletdown wrote: > On 13 Oct 2002 at 10:14, vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu wrote: > > > > "Scarletdown" wrote: > > > I might just build a very minimalist 386 or 486 system from spare > > > parts I have lying about here, set it up with FreeDOS or MINIX, and > > > make that the console. [...] > > > > Actually the easiest way to build a 386-based terminal is with MSDOS > > (or DRDOS) and kermit. Kermit supports most serial cards and even some > > ethernet cards (so you can telnet over TCP/IP). There is even > > DOS-based software for mouse support (so you can cut & paste text). > > > > I've got most of the components gathered and ready for assembly. My > first choice for this is still MINIX. I need to check the FAQ to > determine whether or not this 3COM EtherLink II TP (8 Bit ISA > Ethernet adapter) is one of the few NICs supported by MINIX. Then I > have to check and see if Token Ring and 3270 are supported. If just > one of those is a no go, then I will be using FreeDOS; an open source > MS-DOS compatible OS (think of it as to MS-DOS as Linux is to Unix). > > The system thus far will consist of a 486/DX-33 in a MB with 8 16-BIT > ISA slots and 8 MB of RAM, VGA adapter, 16 bit IO card with one > floppy controller, one IDE controller, 2 serial ports, and 1 parallel > port, a 2nd IO card with 2 serial and 1 parallel port, then an > Ethernet adapter and a 3270 adapter (don't have an ISA Token Ring > card yet), 3.5" and 5.25" floppies, and dual IDE hard drives (43MB > and 84MB respectively). If I end up going with FreeDOS instead of > MINIX, the EtherLink II will be replaced with either an EtherLink III > or EtherExpress and the II will be used in the PS/2 Model 30, since > its slots are all 8 bit ISA. > > The reason this system will have four COM ports is because in > addition to serving as the console for the Cromemco System Two, she > will also be the bridge between our various other classics (TI-99/4a, > Apple II systems of various models, TRS-80s, KayPros, etc) and the > LAN, as those old beasts don't have Ethernet capability and will > connect via serial connection. > > I'm really looking forward to getting this little project started > soon. It should make for a few experience points, much like building > a FreeSCO router did. :) > > -- Scarletdown From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 14 12:32:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: HP 1980 and Deane Kidd Re: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021014123045.00f471f4@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <3.0.6.16.20021014091512.4c4f8cee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.2.32.20021013225329.0100ea78@pop1.epm.net.co> <007401c27307$380aea80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021014133644.477f69c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:30 PM 10/14/02 -0400, you wrote: >At 09:15 AM 10/14/02, you wrote: >>At 10:53 PM 10/13/02 -0400, Carlos wrote: >>>though I still use my hp1980 >>>sometimes. >> How do you like the 1980? I've thought about picking one up just to >play with the HP-IB control and data aquisition. I think I have some HP >software here somewhere for the 1980 but I don't remember what system it >runs on. > >It is okay as an instrument, but I don't like the ergonomics; in fact, >I hate them. > >Which is why I use mostly the TeK 2213. Sometimes I even prefer to >dust off my hp180 instead of the hp1980b. I've got two of them. One is a rack mount. The other is a benchtop model with a HP 1601 Logic Analyzer plug-in in it. I probably use it more than any other LA that I have. I thought about suggesting them when someone asked about scopes for use with vintage computers but didn't. I bought the one with the LA plug-in (and cables) at a hamfest a couple of years ago for $10 and had to replace a 7812 regulator. Had to pay about $40 for a manual though! > >>> The contact info: >>>Deane Kidd, 27270 S.W. Ladd Hill Rd., Sherwood, OR 97140, >>>(503) 625-7363 . >> Deane is MR. Tektronix. I doubt there's anyone in the country that has >as many parts and docs for the Tektronix has he does. Deane worked for >Tektroninx for about 40 years and must have been collecting parts and >manuals the whole time! If he doesn't have it then you're not likely to >find it. >> >> Joe > >Does anybody have email contact info for him? This thread has reminded me >about getting the service manual for the 2213... The last I heard he didn't have internet access and didn't sound like he wanted it. That was a year or two ago. Joe From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 14 12:33:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Parts for Teletype ASR35 needed References: Message-ID: <010701c273a7$f2b55d20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> William Donzelli said: > I would like to thank some of the guys that have come > by - Tom, Ethan, Dan, John, Jack, Bob, Dick, and probably > a few others. I had a great time. W'm kept my costs low, and the finds were many. Amongst various machine parts were: two halves of a Norden Bombsight computer, some small metal cabinets for storing chips, etc, etc, and two older genetarion machines. Another purely mechanical, and one based all on relays. John A. From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 14 12:35:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: A quandry.... (specs) References: <002101c271a4$702a70c0$0264640a@auradon.com> <1662101216.20021014112652@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <010801c273a8$25857b40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> FWIW, TIFF is an open specification, http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/PDFS/TN/TIFF6.pdf and *is* programatically accessable, I did it several years ago. I have few complaints about either TIFF or HTML, however, for best results I would choose PDF, I have seen many spectacular renditions made with it. Just found the spec http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/acrosdk/docs/filefmtspecs/PDFReferen ce.pdf John A. From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Mon Oct 14 12:37:01 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: <20021012030101.98859.49253.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20021012192933.10469.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <00a201c273a8$78f7c940$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Isn't this the commercial version of the Blit? Does anybody actually have one? Heinz "Ken Seefried" wrote: > My most favorite was the AT&T 5620 with a host running layers. Even without > layers, the 800x1024 page-sized screen was nice. Second would be a Tek > 4207...fun graphics. Favorite "normal" terminal would be an amber phospor > VT420. > > Ken > From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 14 12:44:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: <00ba01c2715f$adb139a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <00ba01c2715f$adb139a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1466477659.20021014123948@subatomix.com> On Friday, October 11, 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Owen Robertson wrote: > > I've had a few experiences like that. But my little brother is 8 > > years old, and he knows what an 8" floppy is. I even had him using > > them on a TRS-80 Model II once. > > Quite an achievement. It's par for the course with that kid. I've met him. Owen's brother is a bona fide genius. -- Jeffrey Sharp From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Oct 14 12:51:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: TMS3417 (was My First S-100 System) Message-ID: If you want a TMS3417 bad enough any of the parts brokers (e.g. http://www.aecsales.com) should be able to get you some. Usually these places have something like $100 minimum orders. I don't know where you would get a single piece cheap. >From: Ethan Dicks >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: My First S-100 System >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:55:33 -0700 (PDT) > > >--- Eric Smith wrote: > > Speaking of Cromemco cards, and only using "standard chips", does anyone > > have a source for the TMS3417, used on the Cromemco Dazzler? Google >only > > turns up a single mention of it, on a German page. "Standard chips" > > aren't necessarily all that easy to find. (But much easier to find than > > gate arrays and other ASICs.) > >Is that some sort of video chip (like a 6845) or a character generator? > >-ethan > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More >http://faith.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From h.godavari at shaw.ca Mon Oct 14 13:08:55 2002 From: h.godavari at shaw.ca (harsha godavari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels References: <002301c26fce$8389fdc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3DAA16F0.BB4290DA@shaw.ca> Hi: I used varsol/paint thinner sparingly on some 5.25/3.5" floppy disks. It worked for me. Need lots of ventilation though :-) Regards Harsha Godavari Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Hi all, > OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so disks > to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled using > felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come off without > a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these stupid things > off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my disks? I've tried > WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an upside down airblaster > (freeze spray for half the price) and a few other things and nothing works! > Anyone want to share their secret? > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From maciver at worldpath.net Mon Oct 14 13:09:33 2002 From: maciver at worldpath.net (Christopher MacIver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) Message-ID: <3DAA1CF8.A8811F38@worldpath.net> FWIW, The GA-16/220 is a computer that is used in the Excellon CNC-4 , CNC-5 , and CNC-6 consoles. These consoles controlled the Excellon Drilling/Routing Machines. www.excellon.com for more info. From walterp at cyberstreet.com Mon Oct 14 13:10:01 2002 From: walterp at cyberstreet.com (Walter Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Altair Message-ID: The A11 light dosn't function due tyo a blown 7405 chip in the front panel. I have had to replace several of these myself on my altair and on my IMSAI. 7406 seems to make a better replacement as it can take higher voltages From MichaelDavidson at pacbell.net Mon Oct 14 13:10:26 2002 From: MichaelDavidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Vintage Scopes References: Message-ID: <3DAA41D6.C551C300@pacbell.net> "J.C. Wren" wrote: > > Verbatim diskettes were only used when you wanted to be > sure no one, including yourself, would ever read the > media again. Verbatim became better many years later, > but they were left with a major stigma. > Reminds me of the Syquest cartridges that were used in the CT Megaframe. We used to refer to them as "write sometimes / read never". Did anyone ever manage to get those things to work? From M.Clemence at exeter.ac.uk Mon Oct 14 13:10:52 2002 From: M.Clemence at exeter.ac.uk (M.Clemence) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 repair details Message-ID: <3DAAF71D.9040006@exeter.ac.uk> Hi there, I have a two Epson HX20's (which we use in our reasearch lab - yes still - to control some equipment) one of which has sufferred a failure of the power supply on the main CPU board (details below) and I need to get hold of a schematic if one exists. I beleive that Epson produced a repair guide - does any one know where I might be able to source this information. I have had a plough through the archives to this list and there are some very helpful people out there and maybe if anyone has some experience with this machine and can give me pointers - the following might help ... The batteries and external adaptor are good (new) charging correctly and delivering 4.8 V. However, the power switch has no effect (no LCD, no beeping) The main power rails seem to be off - there is 4.8 v at one test point 0 at another an 2.8v scattered around the board. There seems to be no 17 V which I beleive is needed for the LCD. The previous owner reported a burning smell so component failure is suspected, but no obvious signs on the transistors. A previous writor in the archive (Tony Duell) suggests that a volatge should be present on the collector of Q8, this is absent. Thanks in advance Yours Matthew Clemence From Econsulting at earthlink.net Mon Oct 14 13:11:18 2002 From: Econsulting at earthlink.net (Michael Emery) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Model 100 Message-ID: Is your Radio Shack Model 100 still for sale? How much? From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Oct 14 13:11:44 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Logic Analyzer pods Re: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors References: <3.0.6.16.20021014132625.478f6fd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <015501c273aa$e8a42020$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> You wrote... > When using these you don't use the flying wire leads and grabbers. Speaking of which, I definitely need a bunch of those grabber clips for my HP 1631D Logic Analyzer... I could really use about 10-20 more. Does anyone have any spares, or can they direct me to a place that has them at a reasonable price? Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 14 13:12:09 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: Parts for Teletype ASR35 needed Message-ID: <200210141757.KAA22527@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Stefan > >Hi, > >I have here a half working Teletype ASR35. I am missing some parts, namely >the plastic hood, manuals and some lightbulbs. Also the ASR35 isn't >working properly, I am missing half of the keyboard sorta speak, you can >type uptil the letter H or so and then if you continue it starts with the A >again. > >So any help with that is also welcome. > >Thanks!! > >Stefan. > > Hi I've only fiddle with my ASR33. You need to find out what is wrong first. As an example, my ASR33 takes the output of the keyboard and passes that to the distributor at the back of the machine to serialize. The parallel output of the keyboard depends on a bunch of switches that are located at the side of the keyboard. These switches are exposed to all the gunk that usually floats around in a teletype. I'm sure you may find that one of the switches is dirty and just needs cleaning. Until the signal is serialized, the problem can be anywhere from the switch on the keyboard to the brush on the distributor. This includes the connectors. Some tracing with an ohm meter ( power off ) will most likely find the problem. Dwight From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Oct 14 13:12:36 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:00 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: <3DAA1BA4.19418.F90586D@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Scarletdown wrote: > On 14 Oct 2002 at 4:15, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > > > Therefore, I am now looking at the possibility of using Coherent > > > > as the OS. Hopefully it will meet my networking needs. > > > > You will probably be disappointed, as Coherent never supported TCP/IP. > > Yeah. I discovered that shortly after my last post. How about > FreeBSD? Would that work on such a miniscule setup? About a year and half ago I booted the 1.4.2 release of NetBSD/i386 on a 4MB 386DX/25. It was tight, but it worked. I can even remember running pre-1.0 versions of Linux on a friend's 2MB 386SX/16. I had to temporarily lend him two 1MB SIMMs for the initial install and a kernel recompile. -brian. From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Oct 14 13:13:07 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Logic Analyzer pods Re: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors Message-ID: The HP 10269B/C General Purpose Probe Interface is just a physical interconnect between the pods and various probes. The B version is for the old style HP 1630 pods. The C version is for the HP 1650 all the way through current style pods. I think the 10342B just buffers the HP-IB signals and I think you could use the config and IA files just without the probe. For the RS-232/449 signals it uses a dual UART (I forget which one) plus the Z-80. I assume the Z-80 is there just to configure the UART. Some day I'll dump the eprom on the probe just to see what it actually does. I have a manual and the config and IA files for the 10342B. If there isn't a scanned copy of the manual on the web I should send a copy of the manual to someone who can scan the manual and make it available on the web. I also have a 10314B 80386 proble which mates with a 10269B/C and it has a bunch of active electronics. I don't have config or IA files for it. Does anyone else? Not that I have a real need for it nor do I have any 80386 systems (at least not at the moment.) The HP 10277 might just be a physical interconnect to your own custom interfaces, if I correctly remember what that thing is. -Glen >From: Joe >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Logic Analyzer pods Re: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic >microprocessors >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:26:25 > > I dug around this morning and found two logic analyzer pods/CPU >adapters. These are boxs that you plug the pod of the logic analyzer pods >directly into and they usually have a cable that plugs into the CPU socket >of the UUT. When using these you don't use the flying wire leads and >grabbers. > > One is the HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor in the HP 10269B General Purpose >Probe Interface. This is for the HP 1630 and 1631 series LAs. This >particular preprocessor is used for monitoring RS-449, RS-232 or HP-IB >busses and acquiring data directly from the bus. You can replace the Bus >Preprocessor with various CPU adapters. I opened both of these up and the >10269 doesn't have any parts in it other than cables, PC boards and various >connectors. However the Bus Preprocessor is full of ICs, including a Z-80 >CPU. > > The other logic analyzer pods/CPU adapter is a HP 10277 and is for the >HP 1610 sereis LAs. It's a single unit and it doesn't have any active parts >in it. However it has connectors for ribbon cables to connect the the test >bewing tested and I don't have the cables so it's POSSIBLE that there may >be some active parts in the cable or something attached to the other end of >it. > > Joe _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Oct 14 13:16:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021014181735.19201.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> I actually was pretty close to doing this in the late '80s. The original PC/XT used 2764 compatible ROMs, and had extra sockets on the MoBo for BASIC. You could take the BASIC roms out, drop in your own up to 32K of code, add a magic signature to the ROM, and there you go. Many XT clones had spaces for these ROMs. So, you could, with the appropriate firmware, have a nearly instantly booting terminal. The only useful thing I made with this idea was a password UVEPROM for my XT clone, but making terminals did come to mind and made a really dumb teletype with it. Lots you could do with 32K and a BIOS. BBRAM or flash would have been useful for storing settings, which I was thinking about doing with a clock/calendar board and its extra available bytes. --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > It all seems rather elaborate for a dumb terminal! > > Y'all seem to be moving from building a terminal, > into building a network > server! > > Why not XTs with serial ports? > > If you are THAT hung up on avoiding MS-DOS (I don't > think that MICROS~1 > really got truly evil until about 3.00), why not > just write a trivial > terminal emulation program and put it in the > bootstrap? > > > On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Scarletdown wrote: > > > On 13 Oct 2002 at 10:14, > vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu wrote: > > > > > > > "Scarletdown" > wrote: > > > > I might just build a very minimalist 386 or > 486 system from spare > > > > parts I have lying about here, set it up with > FreeDOS or MINIX, and > > > > make that the console. [...] > > > > > > Actually the easiest way to build a 386-based > terminal is with MSDOS > > > (or DRDOS) and kermit. Kermit supports most > serial cards and even some > > > ethernet cards (so you can telnet over TCP/IP). > There is even > > > DOS-based software for mouse support (so you can > cut & paste text). > > > > > > > I've got most of the components gathered and ready > for assembly. My > > first choice for this is still MINIX. I need to > check the FAQ to > > determine whether or not this 3COM EtherLink II TP > (8 Bit ISA > > Ethernet adapter) is one of the few NICs supported > by MINIX. Then I > > have to check and see if Token Ring and 3270 are > supported. If just > > one of those is a no go, then I will be using > FreeDOS; an open source > > MS-DOS compatible OS (think of it as to MS-DOS as > Linux is to Unix). > > > > The system thus far will consist of a 486/DX-33 in > a MB with 8 16-BIT > > ISA slots and 8 MB of RAM, VGA adapter, 16 bit IO > card with one > > floppy controller, one IDE controller, 2 serial > ports, and 1 parallel > > port, a 2nd IO card with 2 serial and 1 parallel > port, then an > > Ethernet adapter and a 3270 adapter (don't have an > ISA Token Ring > > card yet), 3.5" and 5.25" floppies, and dual IDE > hard drives (43MB > > and 84MB respectively). If I end up going with > FreeDOS instead of > > MINIX, the EtherLink II will be replaced with > either an EtherLink III > > or EtherExpress and the II will be used in the > PS/2 Model 30, since > > its slots are all 8 bit ISA. > > > > The reason this system will have four COM ports is > because in > > addition to serving as the console for the > Cromemco System Two, she > > will also be the bridge between our various other > classics (TI-99/4a, > > Apple II systems of various models, TRS-80s, > KayPros, etc) and the > > LAN, as those old beasts don't have Ethernet > capability and will > > connect via serial connection. > > > > I'm really looking forward to getting this little > project started > > soon. It should make for a few experience points, > much like building > > a FreeSCO router did. :) > > > > -- Scarletdown > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Oct 14 13:18:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Logic Analyzer pods Re: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors In-Reply-To: <015501c273aa$e8a42020$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20021014181930.17339.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> You and lots of other people. I wish I had a good explanation of why these are so ***** expensive. The taiwan cheapos from Jameco aren't nearly as good. --- Jay West wrote: > You wrote... > > When using these you don't use the flying wire > leads and grabbers. > > Speaking of which, I definitely need a bunch of > those grabber clips for my > HP 1631D Logic Analyzer... I could really use about > 10-20 more. Does anyone > have any spares, or can they direct me to a place > that has them at a > reasonable price? > > Thanks! > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From ojw at dircon.co.uk Mon Oct 14 13:18:39 2002 From: ojw at dircon.co.uk (Oliver Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Free HP7978 tape drive in London (needs repair) Message-ID: <000001c273ae$301cc210$0401a8c0@BADGER> Time to part with my 7978 9track reel-to-reel drive. Appears to have power supply problem with both motor drive and logic PSU's - fans function on power up but nothing else. Unfortunately I have not had the time/space/expertise to get to grips with repairing this so can't offer much more insight I'm afraid. Free to anyone who can physically remove it from me in Central London (really needs 2-3 people to carry it). Oliver -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021014/c0dfb277/attachment.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 14 13:37:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Parts for Teletype ASR35 needed Message-ID: <20021014183822.50897.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Stefan writes: > I have here a half working Teletype ASR35... I am missing half of the > keyboard sorta speak, you can type uptil the letter H or so and then if > you continue it starts with the A again. > >So any help with that is also welcome. I can't help from personal experience (my ASR-35 from N.J. hasn't made it home yet - it went from The Armory to Canada and should be in Ohio by the end of the month), but I can make the suggestion that it sounds like a dirty contact in the output rotor or a broken/disconnected lever under the keyboard. Looks like you are missing 2**3 in your parallel->serial conversion, but I couldn't guess at what stage. I do not own nor am I expecting any ASR-35 manuals. Perhaps the Greenkeys list mentioned elsewhere might be useful to you for securing a set of docs. I'll have to be hitting them myself when my 35 shows up. I'm certain it's in need of a PM cleaning and lube, and I have *no* idea how to do it at the moment. (The TTY itself still has strapping tape on the carriage and protective film on the cover - except for a test sheet, it looks virtually new. Still needs a lube job, though). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 14 13:42:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021014184324.33643.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > It all seems rather elaborate for a dumb terminal! > > Y'all seem to be moving from building a terminal, into building a network > server! Or at least a network client. > Why not XTs with serial ports? Why not indeed... and how about a parallel-port pocket LAN adapter, too? > If you are THAT hung up on avoiding MS-DOS (I don't think that MICROS~1 > really got truly evil until about 3.00), why not just write a trivial > terminal emulation program and put it in the bootstrap? What _I_ did was to take a $15 Zenith XT laptop with dual 720 floppies, load on DOS 3.3 (an *original copy*, thank you) with MS-Kermit and the packet driver for a Xircom PE-3-10BT. There's no hard drive noise, I can move it around from place to place, and it goes to sleep when I'm not using it. MS-Kermit's TCP/IP interface is pretty slick - I also use it to telnet into my Sun server and Lynx around. What I'd like to do is to fit the PE3 in the side bay where the large internal modem goes - just have an RJ-45 out the side. For now, though, it's fine, hung off the back end. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Oct 14 13:51:01 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: <6365430454.20021014122221@subatomix.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011104844.023784d0@pc> <5.1.1.6.0.20021011104844.023784d0@pc> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021014133951.0237bd10@pc> At 12:22 PM 10/14/2002 -0500, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >On Friday, October 11, 2002, John Foust wrote: >> I've created a web page to publicize and discuss the horrible >> misinterpretation ... http://www.threedee.com/jcm/cereal/ > >Outside of the 'ENIAC building', there is a guy using a PC-like machine. >Those, of course, did not exist in 1945. The text compares the power of ENIAC to the power of a modern PC. One friend said the woman looks like Julia Roberts. I think the person with the PC and the woman are supposed to be contemporary. Why she's looking at the roof of the ENIAC house is beyond me. Why they decided to use a lame size analogy like that, and then illustrate it literally is also beyond my ken. Would it be unreasonable for a kid to think that old computers were also tall? The square footage of ENIAC mutates into comparisons with square footage of a typical house, which mutates into house volume. Huh? No response from Topco, though. You're right about the floppy, of course. They could've used a "fun factoid" like explaining why all floppies have been called floppy because they're talking about the disk not the case. - John From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Oct 14 13:52:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 repair details In-Reply-To: <3DAAF71D.9040006@exeter.ac.uk> References: <3DAAF71D.9040006@exeter.ac.uk> Message-ID: <51981.12.13.226.18.1034621639.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> I have most of the manuals for the HX-20. I have some technical documentations. I will check to see if there is also a schematic. Mike > Hi there, > > I have a two Epson HX20's (which we use in our reasearch lab - yes still > - to control some > equipment) one of which has sufferred a failure of the power supply on > the main CPU > board (details below) and I need to get hold of a schematic if one > exists. I beleive that Epson produced > a repair guide - does any one know where I might be able to source this > information. > > I have had a plough through the archives to this list and there are some > very helpful people out there > and maybe if anyone has some experience with this machine and can give > me pointers - the following > might help ... > > The batteries and external adaptor are good (new) charging correctly and > delivering 4.8 V. > However, the power switch has no effect (no LCD, no beeping) > > The main power rails seem to be off - there is 4.8 v at one test point > 0 at another an 2.8v scattered > around the board. There seems to be no 17 V which I beleive is needed > for the LCD. > > The previous owner reported a burning smell so component failure is > suspected, but no obvious signs > on the transistors. > > A previous writor in the archive (Tony Duell) suggests that a volatge > should be present on the collector of Q8, > this is absent. > > Thanks in advance > > Yours > > Matthew Clemence From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Oct 14 14:03:13 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3DAB150A.9080108@Vishay.com> Hello, once I get the power supply fixed, I will happily return to my Visual 603: when it came out, the DEC equivalent would have been a VT220, and the emulation is good. I have never seen any problem with compatibility. White phosphor, Keyboard layout as a LK201. The keyboard has its stands permanently attached like a LK401, not pluggable like a LK201. The terminal does Tektronix graphics, and as opposed to a VT240, provides a good picture (the VT24x only look good in ReGIS mode). A zoom mode would have been nice, as in a Selanar HiREZ or Tektronix 41xx terminals. Though undocumented, the Visual 603 can also handle a TeX previewer that generates Sixel output for VT24x. Maybe the GIF viewer mentioned earlier would also work. The terminal uses a 68000 processor and has three applications in local ROM: a calendar, an alarm clock, and a calculator. The figures in the "display" of the calculator can be sent to the host as if you typed them. Now if the calculator only had a hex mode...! ;-) Further, there is an optional permanent clock display in the status line. I used to have little programs on TOPS-10 (MACRO-10), VAX/VMS (DCL) and RSX-11 (MACRO-11) download the current time into the terminal upon login. Drawback: the terminals seemed to be too cheap, i.e. some components would go bad faster than you expect from real DEC stuff. Of the four devices I ever touched, three were gone within about two years. Mine was the only surviver. I didn't turn it off in the evening, that's the only difference in handling that I know of. One of the others let out the magic smoke with a clearly audible sound that I would estimate to several kV. Luckily, this was within the warranty period. My device died silently, and currently behaves as if the power plug had been pulled. Unfortunately, I have no experience with switch-mode power supplies. Apparently, no blown fuses. Startup resistor, perhaps? Regards, Andreas emanuel stiebler wrote: > Hi, > > what is THE favorite terminal you folks here use ? > > Now I have all this nice VTxxx I ever wanted, but they always > miss the graphics capabilities, I had on my terminals in the office. > (not talking about GUIs, just few nice lines on the screen) > > So, is there something like emulating VTxxx (52,100,200,320,340) and > tektronix ? (probably even 38400 baud ? > > I really like to talk about terminals, not software for PC's > emulating those ... > > cheers & thanks -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 14 14:06:01 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Osbourne 1 problems Message-ID: <3728F310-DFA8-11D6-8049-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I recently accquired an Osbourne 1 computer. I turned it on and it seemed to work, I was able to boot BASIC off of a floppy and I wrote a couple little programs, (print hello world, count to ten, and count forever, stuff like that). The picture on the screen was kinda dark in spots, and while the computer was counting, it flickered to a very dark and barely readable, then it went black all together. I tried turning up the brightness and contrast controls, the only one that makes any change on the screen is the brightness control. I can see the rasters when the brightness is up all the way, but the contrast control has no effect. The computer seems to still work though, I can turn it on, then hit enter and it will boot from the floppy. Previously, when it was working, I noticed the screen flicker when the computer accessed the floppy drive. My guess is that there is something wrong with the power supply. Does anyone have any ideas? I would really like to get my Osbourne working again, it's a really cool little computer. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Oct 14 14:13:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021011104844.023784d0@pc> <5.1.1.6.0.20021011104844.023784d0@pc> <5.1.1.6.0.20021014133951.0237bd10@pc> Message-ID: <3DAB176A.6060507@jetnet.ab.ca> >I've created a web page to publicize and discuss the horrible >misinterpretation ... http://www.threedee.com/jcm/cereal/ The misinformation may be true, but remember that they claim corn-puffs are a good product to eat too! From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 14 14:18:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Altair Message-ID: <200210141919.MAA22556@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Walter Peterson" > >The A11 light dosn't function due tyo a blown 7405 chip in the front panel. I have had to replace several of these myself on my altair and on my IMSAI. 7406 seems to make a better replacement as it can take higher voltages > > > Hi I've notice these as being a common failure item, as well. I don't think it is the voltage that is killing them. It is more likely a timing overlap issue with other parts driving the bus and stressing these parts. One might consider adding some resistors in series ( small value ) to limit the current when a tristate drive also drives the bus at the same time as the '05 is active ( driving low ). I would suspect that something in the order of 15 ohms would be enough to protect the '05's and still drive a solid '0' onto the bus lines. There is no reason that any voltage issue should cause problems with these parts. Later Dwight From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 14 14:23:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Floppies Message-ID: >Anyone know if 3.5" DSDD (not HD) floppies are still manufactured ? mei-micro sold them at least recently. Although you had to buy them in lots of 500. Don't know if they are new off the line, or just ancient stock sitting in a warehouse. -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Oct 14 14:33:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Corn Puffs box misinformation In-Reply-To: <3DAB176A.6060507@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > >I've created a web page to publicize and discuss the horrible > >misinterpretation ... http://www.threedee.com/jcm/cereal/ > > The misinformation may be true, but remember that they claim corn-puffs > are a good product to eat too! Well, edible or not, they make great mechanical dampers. I loaned my lovely external Eliant 8mm tape drive to a cow-orker a couple of months ago, and when I got it back, weeks late, I couldn't get a tape to load at all. Evidently she had carried it around in the back seat with her ankle-biters, because when I took it apart, I found 4 corn puffs, nestled neatly at the 4 corners of the loading tracks. The drive is fine now, and the cow, um, -orker, is still pissed because I turned in a time ticket for the repair [0], and it came out of her check. Doc [0] Strictly for meanness and a wake-up call. The woman makes double what I do, can't be bothered to buy her own equipment, thinks mine is there for her personal enjoyment, and takes abysmal care of it, not to mention whining when she's expected to bring it back to me. If I want my stuff back, I can drive 90 miles to get it, right? From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Oct 14 14:40:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Osbourne 1 problems References: <3728F310-DFA8-11D6-8049-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DAB1CEE.E21FA165@ccp.com> Sark wrote: > > I recently accquired an Osbourne 1 computer. I turned it on and it > seemed to work, I was able to boot BASIC off of a floppy and I wrote a > couple little programs, (print hello world, count to ten, and count > forever, stuff like that). The picture on the screen was kinda dark in > spots, and while the computer was counting, it flickered to a very dark > and barely readable, then it went black all together. I tried turning > up the brightness and contrast controls, the only one that makes any > change on the screen is the brightness control. I can see the rasters > when the brightness is up all the way, but the contrast control has no > effect. The computer seems to still work though, I can turn it on, then > hit enter and it will boot from the floppy. Previously, when it was > working, I noticed the screen flicker when the computer accessed the > floppy drive. My guess is that there is something wrong with the power > supply. Does anyone have any ideas? I would really like to get my > Osbourne working again, it's a really cool little computer. > > Thanks! > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com Well if you see the raster then the PS is okay, looks like something died in the video output. I remember Sams made a computer photofact of the Ozzie 1, sounds like you need a copy to do some trouble shooting. Now if you have had a mod on the front panel for an external composite monitor (phono jack) all you would need is a composite NTSC monitor to plug into the Ozzie. That would tell you if the video output circutry is okay or not. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From emu at ecubics.com Mon Oct 14 14:58:01 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal References: <3DA71CE5.E5AB9E8D@ecubics.com> <3DAB150A.9080108@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3DAB2281.B3DD9636@ecubics.com> Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > Hello, > > once I get the power supply fixed, I will happily return to my Visual > 603: when it came out, the DEC equivalent would have been a VT220, and > the emulation is good. I have never seen any problem with compatibility. I had some of those with the "transtec" logo, however I'm not sure ... I liked it a lot, because of the VTxxx & tektronix emulation ... cheers From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Oct 14 16:04:01 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: HP 1980 and Deane Kidd Re: Vintage Scopes References: <007401c27307$380aea80$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <3.0.6.16.20021014091512.4c4f8cee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DAB308D.FFFE5DFE@gifford.co.uk> Joe wrote: > At 10:53 PM 10/13/02 -0400, Carlos wrote: > >Argh, my main scope is a Tek 2213... though I still use my hp1980 > >sometimes. > How do you like the 1980? I have two of them, with manuals. One of them has the add-on waveform storage module and can drive an HP plotter for hard copy. I must admit, I find the fans a bit noisy! I suppose I'm used to scopes that don't need a fan -- my Tektronix 464, for example. I have the add-on Polaroid camera for the Tek 464, BTW. I havn't tried out the HP1980's HP-IB interface yet. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 14 16:09:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: My First S-100 System In-Reply-To: <20021014155533.35213.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <34493.64.169.63.74.1034535034.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <20021014155533.35213.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3064.4.20.168.157.1034629842.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ethan asks regarding the TMS3417 used in the Cromemco Dazzler: > Is that some sort of video chip (like a 6845) or a character generator? I think it's a FIFO, but I haven't found a data sheet. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 14 16:12:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: TMS3417 (was My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3448.4.20.168.157.1034630032.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > If you want a TMS3417 bad enough any of the parts brokers (e.g. > http://www.aecsales.com) should be able to get you some. Usually these > places have something like $100 minimum orders. Already checked with them. They don't have it and can't get it. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Oct 14 16:54:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Osbourne 1 problems Message-ID: I have an O1 Tech Ref manual, from which I can send you info that might be useful. I'm busy this week, so won't be until next, though. One thing to check is the video shunt on the front of the unit. It takes the video signals and power from the bottom of the board and passes them to the top, where they go to the monitor. If the contacts on the shunt are oxidized, you could have video problems. The pinout of the edge connector is (numbered right to left, odd on top, even on bottom): (19 ... 1) (20 ... 2) 2 Ground 4 Brightness High ---> 3 on top 6 Brightness Low ---> 5 on top 8 Brightness Arm ---> 7 on top 10 Ground 12 Horiz Sync 14 +12 volts 16 Video Out 18 Vert Sync 20 Ground 3 and 7 go to the outsides of a 100K brightness pot, 5 to the wiper of the pot. Video out and one of the grounds go to a 500 ohm contrast pot. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Sark [mailto:ian_primus@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:08 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Osbourne 1 problems I recently accquired an Osbourne 1 computer. I turned it on and it seemed to work, I was able to boot BASIC off of a floppy and I wrote a couple little programs, (print hello world, count to ten, and count forever, stuff like that). The picture on the screen was kinda dark in spots, and while the computer was counting, it flickered to a very dark and barely readable, then it went black all together. I tried turning up the brightness and contrast controls, the only one that makes any change on the screen is the brightness control. I can see the rasters when the brightness is up all the way, but the contrast control has no effect. The computer seems to still work though, I can turn it on, then hit enter and it will boot from the floppy. Previously, when it was working, I noticed the screen flicker when the computer accessed the floppy drive. My guess is that there is something wrong with the power supply. Does anyone have any ideas? I would really like to get my Osbourne working again, it's a really cool little computer. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 14 17:12:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: HP 1980 and Deane Kidd Re: Vintage Scopes In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021014123045.00f471f4@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote: > At 09:15 AM 10/14/02, Joe wrote: > > > Deane is MR. Tektronix. I doubt there's anyone in the country that has > > as many parts and docs for the Tektronix has he does. Deane worked for > > Tektroninx for about 40 years and must have been collecting parts and > > manuals the whole time! If he doesn't have it then you're not likely > > to find it. > > Does anybody have email contact info for him? This thread has reminded > me about getting the service manual for the 2213... The only email address I have for him is dektyr AT teleport.com. I haven't emailed him yet myself, so I don't know if it still works or not. If you have a chance, ask what he'd want for the service and operators manuals for the 2213A too. It sure looks like I'm going to need to order both manuals from him in the very near future. -Toth From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 14 17:19:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Logic Analyzer pods Re: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors In-Reply-To: <015501c273aa$e8a42020$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021014132625.478f6fd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021014181528.476f9230@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jay, I frequently find them around the surplus places. They often fall off and you can frequently pick them up off the floor. Or if they're more carefull about them then they'll pile them up in parts trays or the like and sell them for $.50 each or so. The good thing is that all of them that I've tried (Gould, HP, Tektronix, etc) all seem to be interchangable. Joe At 12:55 PM 10/14/02 -0500, you wrote: >You wrote... >> When using these you don't use the flying wire leads and grabbers. > >Speaking of which, I definitely need a bunch of those grabber clips for my >HP 1631D Logic Analyzer... I could really use about 10-20 more. Does anyone >have any spares, or can they direct me to a place that has them at a >reasonable price? > >Thanks! > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 14 17:19:27 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Logic Analyzer pods Re: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021014182024.476f3d5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Glen, At 11:05 AM 10/14/02 -0700, you wrote: >The HP 10269B/C General Purpose Probe Interface is just a physical >interconnect between the pods and various probes. The B version is for the >old style HP 1630 pods. The C version is for the HP 1650 all the way >through current style pods. > >I think the 10342B just buffers the HP-IB signals and I think you could use >the config and IA files just without the probe. For the RS-232/449 signals >it uses a dual UART (I forget which one) plus the Z-80. I assume the Z-80 >is there just to configure the UART. Some day I'll dump the eprom on the >probe just to see what it actually does. > >I have a manual and the config and IA files for the 10342B. If there isn't >a scanned copy of the manual on the web I should send a copy of the manual >to someone who can scan the manual and make it available on the web. That sounds like something that Al Kossow might like to host. I also have the manual and SW for it. It's the only one that I have docs and SW for. > >I also have a 10314B 80386 proble which mates with a 10269B/C and it has a >bunch of active electronics. I don't have config or IA files for it. Does >anyone else? Not that I have a real need for it nor do I have any 80386 >systems (at least not at the moment.) > >The HP 10277 might just be a physical interconnect to your own custom >interfaces, if I correctly remember what that thing is. That appears to be the case. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 14 17:57:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: HP 9915 keyboard (PN 98155) Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021014190149.43a7e804@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I opened up my keyboard and traced out the circuits again today. I HOPE this is right, I haven't double checked it. Everything in caps is as it appears on the keyboard. Names that are too long are abbreviated and shown in lower case. A list of the abbreviations and their meanings is also shown below. pin 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 2 nu kl K1 K2 K3 K4 ^ da 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 4 Q W E R T Y U I 5 A S D F G H J K 6 sb Z X C V B N M 13 nu nu -l da -CHAR REP -> <- 12 nu RESET bs nu = - 0 9 11 nu nu nu sca ) ( P O 10 nu nu nu nu el ' ; L 9 nu nu nu RUN PAUSE ? > < Abbreviations: nu = not used da = down arrow (up and down arrow are used to recall previous commands and for editing)(I just noticed that I have this listed twice so there's probably an error there somewhere). k1 = Key Label el = End Line (this is what HP uses for carriage return/Enter) sb = space bar bs = Back Space -l = -Line (erases the entire line) sca = Scratch (erases all memory, just variables, etc depoending on what argument you give it) Notes: The K keys are programable function keys. K5 through K8 are K1 through K4 shifted. You can assign programs or functions to these keys and use the Control input lines to trigger the program or function. The -Char key erases one character at a time. the REP key toggles between the insert and replace modes. There are a few more keys that don't fit into a matrix. Here's a list of them and the two pins that they connect to: Both SHIFT keys are tied together in parallel and connct to pins 18 and 7. There is a 8 Ohm .2Watt speaker inside. It connects to pins 25 and 7. CNTL key connects to pins 23 and 7. CAPS LOCK key connects to pins 24 and 7. I'll try to photograph the keyboard and post the picture tomorrow so that you can see what the layout and key legends and shifted legends are. From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 14 18:09:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Model 100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Michael Emery wrote: > Is your Radio Shack Model 100 still for sale? How much? One Million Billion Dollars!!! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Oct 14 18:18:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've recently acquired two of those rackmount VAX 6000's that were being sold on eBay. I paid more than I should've, but given the nature of the systems, I'd have gone higher. Though they're still hefty, they are very small and light in comparison to the full sized VAX 6000's. They're still built like tanks, but I'm able to move one easily by myself. Well, at least as long as I don't have to pick it up off the ground. The other huge plus with these is that they're already wired up for single-phase power--no hacks are required. The systems have Hubbell Twist-Lock connectors: L6-20 (20A @ 250V). It'll be trivial to hook these up to household dryer circuits in the US. In their present configurations, they've each a single 6000-400 CPU, 384MB of RAM, three XMI ethernet modules, an XMI FDDI module, and two XMI CI-bus modules. My employer is planning on tossing out some of their old FDDI concentrators, so it all works out rather nicely. I'm still trying to determine if the XMI card cage is the original XMI or if it's XMI-2. Looking at the back of it, some of the metal dividers in the backplane are stamped with a date in 1991; this is after DEC started producing the XMI-2 based VAX 6000 systems. If these do support the 500 and 600 series CPUs, I'm planning on turning at least one into the world's smallest VAX 6660. The other will be a VAX 6420 with two vector processors. MUH HA HAH!!! Another interesting thing with these systems is that they've Intel asset tags affixed to them. I've often heard it stated that Intel operated the production control systems at their fabs with VAX/VMS systems. I don't know if these systems served in that capacity or not, but the guy selling them is located only a few miles from Intel's Chandler, AZ campus where several of Intel's fabs are located. As a side note, I'm often disappointed with the packing jobs of the bulkier gear I buy online. That's not the case with this seller. He seems to be well equipped for shipping heavy items. The rackmount unit was packed in a large box with thick foam surrounding it. The box was also secured to wooden pallet and wrapped in plastic. It took me about half an hour to unpack everything. He really went crazy with the plastic wrap. I believe he has more of these, three have already been put up on eBay. I've got my two, so I'm done throwing money at them; I expect the others will go for considerably less. -brian. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Oct 14 18:22:01 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - 'Garage Sale' update Message-ID: <20021014162244.K76723-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Quick note: some new items in the 'Garage Sale'! http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/Gsale -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 14 18:41:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Rise and fall of MS-DOS floppy FORMAT program In-Reply-To: <20021014184324.33643.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: 1.00 had 160K (SS, 8 SPT) 1.25/ PC-DOS 1.10 added 320K (DS), with /1 option for FORMAT for doing SS 2.00 added 180K and 360K (9 SPT), with /8 option for FORMAT for doing 8 SPT 2.11 some manufacturers added support for 3.5", but it was specific to each of their customized version of MS-DOS 3.00 added 1.2M, with /4 option for FORMAT for doing 360K (in 1.2M drive) 3.20 added 720K, with /T:80 /N:9 being used to specify 720K 3.30 added 1.4M, added /F:2 for 720K to be easier to remember 5.00? added /F:720 to be easier to remember. Windoze 98? dropped /F:2 Windoze XP dropped /F:720. /F:x is still supported, but only for x == 1.44. /T:x/N:y is still supported, and is the only way to format anything other than 1.4M. T can be 40 or 80, N can be 8, 9, or 15 T and N are used for selecting from an internal menu; they can not be set to other values like a true variable. With it, you can still do: /T:80 /N:9 720K /T:80 /N:8 640K Hmmm! haven't seen that one since the Toshiba T300! /T:40 /N:9 360K /T:40 /N:8 320K /T:80 /N:15 1.2M You can NOT do /T:40 /N:15, (you must choose between supported formats.) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Oct 14 18:49:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: Computer Garage - 'Garage Sale' update References: <20021014162244.K76723-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <003f01c273dc$7e0d5ec0$3200a8c0@winnt> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Quick note: some new items in the 'Garage Sale'! > > http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/Gsale > I'll be getting the payment for the TD8E controller off to you tomorrow. Thanks! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPatYSzl3n3bFMRPmEQKGcACgw/MRpLl8TvWmoSTmyjG58WA/0wkAn1au RtYc2W7Tm84yXg02mXl9RfjP =BeJc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From thompson at new.rr.com Mon Oct 14 19:46:00 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > started producing the XMI-2 based VAX 6000 systems. If these do support > the 500 and 600 series CPUs, I'm planning on turning at least one into > the world's smallest VAX 6660. The other will be a VAX 6420 with two > vector processors. MUH HA HAH!!! A cool setup either way. I saw these on ebay, I never realized that the 6000 came in that form factor. > As a side note, I'm often disappointed with the packing jobs of the > bulkier gear I buy online. That's not the case with this seller. He > seems to be well equipped for shipping heavy items. The rackmount unit > was packed in a large box with thick foam surrounding it. The box was > also secured to wooden pallet and wrapped in plastic. It took me about > half an hour to unpack everything. He really went crazy with the > plastic wrap. I bought a R215F on ebay; a somewhat bulky item. It came in a box as tall as I am filled with about a billion packing peanuts which promptly blew all around my neighborhood as I unpacked it on a windy day. I am frequently scared off by bulkier items; although in the case of the R215F all I wanted was the H7868 power supply and even with shipping it was cheaper than buying one through an official DEC reseller. When the unit arrived unexpectedly with a large DSSI disk and a long DSSI cable not mentioned in the auction my idea of scrapping the unit for the power supply died an early death. :-) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 14 19:52:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021011134430.00a6a5b0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> from "gil smith" at Oct 11, 2 01:44:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1567 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021014/526e3c79/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 14 19:53:52 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:01 2005 Subject: HP ThinkJet 2225P In-Reply-To: from "Bill Nelson" at Oct 11, 2 05:38:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 133 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021014/2ed1b5fd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 14 19:55:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Floppies In-Reply-To: <025701c27276$b71354c0$0500a8c0@lance> from "Lance Lyon" at Oct 13, 2 04:09:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 354 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021014/0c187b32/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 14 19:57:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Parts for Teletype ASR35 needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021009191628.00aba0d8@pop.softhome.net> from "Stefan" at Oct 9, 2 07:19:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 650 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021014/f07e8de4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 14 19:57:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 repair details In-Reply-To: <3DAAF71D.9040006@exeter.ac.uk> from "M.Clemence" at Oct 14, 2 12:55:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2217 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021014/13e6a2ac/attachment.ksh From ken at seefried.com Mon Oct 14 20:30:01 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <20021015005200.39950.67349.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20021015005200.39950.67349.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20021015030012.13696.qmail@mail.seefried.com> > >Isn't this the commercial version of the Blit? > Yup. > >Does anybody actually have one? > Nope. I last had my hands on one circa 1988. Never seen one on eBay... > >"Ken Seefried" wrote: > My most favorite was the AT&T 5620 with a host running layers. > From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 14 20:53:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Rise and fall of MS-DOS floppy FORMAT program In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Windoze 98? dropped /F:2 > Windoze XP dropped /F:720. /F:x is still supported, but only for They add gigabytes of superfluous sound and graohics but they can't spare a few dozen bytes to retain old switches that still might be useable to some folks? Microsoft: We May Not Be Good, But We're Slow. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 14 22:09:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Rise and fall of MS-DOS floppy FORMAT program References: Message-ID: <02fa01c273f8$55c73f00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > ...they can not be set to other values like a true variable.... Amen. Thanks for the table, Fred! I remember when I started getting serious about PC's I bought the v3.30 reference manual. For FORMAT the ref. entry looked promising. Sectors and Tracks individually settable, for example. Several dozen (hundred?) possible parameter combinations. Then by page four of FORMAT: 20 seperate caveats spelled out over 4 more pages ('The large print giveth and the small print taketh away') of what you couldn't do. They then included a table with five possibilities and concluded "No other combinations are allowed." by now we're on page 8. Oh, thanks for letting me read all the other B*S* first. This may have been the very first (for me at least) of the by now innumerable MS Gotchas John A. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Mon Oct 14 22:17:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Rise and fall of MS-DOS floppy FORMAT program Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FCE8@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > This may have been the very first (for me at least) of the by now > innumerable MS Gotchas Dunno about MS-DOS V6.22; I'll look it up in the format.exe source.. (yes, we have the source, and no, we're not gonna fix it ;-) --fred From pietstan at rogers.com Mon Oct 14 22:43:00 2002 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Rise and fall of MS-DOS floppy FORMAT program References: Message-ID: <3DAB8ECF.3050502@rogers.com> Sounds like motivation to keep a bootable DOS5 system around, with both 3.5" and 5.25" drives.... Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > >>Windoze 98? dropped /F:2 >>Windoze XP dropped /F:720. /F:x is still supported, but only for >> > > They add gigabytes of superfluous sound and graohics but they can't spare > a few dozen bytes to retain old switches that still might be useable to > some folks? > > Microsoft: We May Not Be Good, But We're Slow. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 14 22:51:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Rise and fall of MS-DOS floppy FORMAT program In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FCE8@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FCE8@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <83102927952.20021014224719@subatomix.com> On Monday, October 14, 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > This may have been the very first (for me at least) of the by now > innumerable MS Gotchas Oh, I doubt that. You had DOS on the machine to begin with! :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 14 22:57:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Rise and fall of MS-DOS floppy FORMAT program In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FCE8@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > This may have been the very first (for me at least) of the by now > > innumerable MS Gotchas > Dunno about MS-DOS V6.22; I'll look it up in the format.exe source.. What's to know? On ALL versions of FORMAT that have /T:x/N:y, x and y do NOT set values, they are used to select WHICH format from a list of supported ones. > (yes, we have the source, and no, we're not gonna fix it ;-) How available is it? It was once included in the OEM adaptation kit for 2.11 and maybe 3.31. But I'd love to have a copy for newer version. 6.2x was my favorite version of DOS - "only time that the primary goal of a new release of any MS product was to improve reliability over previous" (as opposed to adding new features) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Mon Oct 14 23:04:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Rise and fall of MS-DOS floppy FORMAT program Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FCEA@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > What's to know? Still.. > How available is it? Dunno. Technically, I shouldn't have it, right? Then again, MS dropped DOS quite a while ago, so... pfff... Fair Use for retro-hackers ? :) --f From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Oct 14 23:26:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Rise and fall of MS-DOS floppy FORMAT program In-Reply-To: from "Stan Pietkiewicz" at Oct 14, 2002 11:43:11 PM Message-ID: <200210150427.g9F4Rlx23193@shell1.aracnet.com> > Sounds like motivation to keep a bootable DOS5 system around, with both > 3.5" and 5.25" drives.... And don't forget to have an ethernet card, and either a copy of PCTCP, or anotherbootable OS on the system that has a TCP stack. One of these days I'm going to build such a system. I've managed to collect all the parts, and even a nice small PC, I just haven't found the time (or really a place to put it). Zane From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Tue Oct 15 01:31:01 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: References: <3DA9DDAA.19519.E9E3833@localhost> Message-ID: <3DAB5376.22096.7EFE2C@localhost> On 14 Oct 2002 at 10:28, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > It all seems rather elaborate for a dumb terminal! > > Y'all seem to be moving from building a terminal, into building a > network server! > The idea did just start out as a terminal for the Cromemco. It's only natural that it is increasing a bit in scope. I figure that since I have the old components, I might as well see what kind of weirdness I can concoct with them. All part of the learning experience. :) > Why not XTs with serial ports? > This is being built with parts I have readily available. I have a buttload of 486-33 CPUs, and several 486 motherboards and assorted video cards, drive controllers, etc., due to my packrat nature. The surprisingly few 8086, 286, and 386 boards are being saved for future projects (systems to run classic video games and RPGs from the eras when those particular systems were top of the line.) The 486 boards are the most versatile workhorses, and easiest to accumulate at this time. > If you are THAT hung up on avoiding MS-DOS (I don't think that > MICROS~1 really got truly evil until about 3.00), why not just write a > trivial terminal emulation program and put it in the bootstrap? > I don't really have anything against MS-DOS. That and Windows for Workgroups 3.11 are examples of Microsoft's better products (Windows 98 Lite - Internet Excreter eradicated from the system - is also an excellent OS, and is the farthest I plan on going here at home in the Windows realm.) Biggest reason I don't want to use MS-DOS for this project is simply due to a lack of login/password type security. This is the same reason I have vetoed FreeDOS, and one of the reasons I decided against CP/M-86. Additionally, I have plenty of systems running MS- DOS and the MS-DOS/WfW 3.11 combo; and I am trying to gain experience points with a variety of different and often obscure operating systems. -- Scarletdown From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Tue Oct 15 01:47:00 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 (was Re: My First S-100 System) In-Reply-To: References: <3DAA1BA4.19418.F90586D@localhost> Message-ID: <3DAB5733.8028.8D97B1@localhost> On 14 Oct 2002 at 11:02, Brian Chase wrote: > About a year and half ago I booted the 1.4.2 release of NetBSD/i386 on > a 4MB 386DX/25. It was tight, but it worked. I can even remember > running pre-1.0 versions of Linux on a friend's 2MB 386SX/16. I had > to temporarily lend him two 1MB SIMMs for the initial install and a > kernel recompile. After looking through the supported hardware list for NetBSD, it looks like we may have a winner here. Only thing not mentioned is 3270 support, but I can deal with that issue later. Now, I think it is time to begin Build-0000 of this beast (This is just going to be a build purely for hardware testing, which will use DOS 6.22 and WfW 3.11.) -- Scarletdown From foo at siconic.com Tue Oct 15 02:33:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: More bounties ($$$) Message-ID: I am looking for the following software: Window Master (Structured Systems Group) Concept VP (Scientia) Inview (Graphicon) If you have any of these GUI software packages (early to mid-80s vintage) please contact me directly at . Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Oct 15 08:36:01 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Sun Sparc ID In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10/11/02, Patrick Finnegan scribbled: > On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > > I have the possibility to pick up the following: > > > > Sun 600-2575-06 : 10" square by about 4" tall. Has drive and a whole > > lot of memory . . . . > > Sounds like an IPX, IPC or LX - I'll have to look at mine to see what > model # it has on it... > : > > You can hook up a serial terminal to either (using port "A"), but if > you're going to do that to the Lunch Box style one, you'll need a DIN-8 to > DB-25 adaptor. Fortunately, one from a MAC will work just fine. Also, > don't forget about putting a null modem in line with it. > The SparcStation LX does have a DB-25 serial port on it. It's the 2 port combination version. I hooked mine up to a VT520 using a DEC H8571-E DB25-MMJ adaptor. BTW, I just noticed, my VT520 can have up to 4 sessions, but it has only 3 serial lines. I assume it could use the printer port for the 4th session? -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Tue Oct 15 09:44:01 2002 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstations 1+ / 2 (one each) - for sale or trade Message-ID: <18907.1034693164@www49.gmx.net> Hello everybody, my father is cleaning out his office and wants to get rid of two SUN SPARCstations. I had hoped we'd keep them, but he would like to get a moderate sum of money out of them, so he asked me to offer them here... ! We also consider trading some of the stuff off for a working Calcomp ! ! 971 L ethernet interface card (for a CalComp laser printer). ! If possible, we would like to sell them as complete systems as follows, but if nobody wants these, we also consider splitting them up. System 1: System 2: SUN SPARCstation 1+ SUN SPARCstation 2 Framebuffer Framebuffer 21" CAD monitor 21" CAD monitor 4 GB SCSI ext. HDD 4 GB SCSI ext. HDD 660 MB SCSI ext. HDD 660 MB SCSI ext. HDD Type 4 Keyboard Type 4 Keyboard optical mouse + grid pad optical mouse + grid pad all necessary cabling all necessary cabling SCSI terminator SCSI terminator (I do not know how much memory, internal HD, ... they have; NVRAM may have died over time. Nevertheless, they powered up correctly last time) Furthermore, a SCSI DAT streamer in external enclosure has also become available. They are in Germany at present (Nuremberg, northern Bavaria). Taker(s) would have to pay shipping. Please contact me off list & place your offers if you're interested in anything: A r n o _ 1 9 8 3 @ g m x . d e (remove blanks first...) So far by now Arno -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f?r 1 ct/ Min. surfen! From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Oct 15 09:56:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: <200210120457.g9C4vHa04312@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On 10/11/02, Zane H. Healy scribbled: > > Jerome Fine replies: > > > > I presume the LK201 and the LK401 are plug compatible? > > > > Also, what are the actual differences and why do you prefer > > the LK401? > > Yes, they are compatable/interchangable. I've ended up with a LK201 > attached to the VT420 on my PDP-11/73 somehow, but the rest of the VT420's > I'm using have LK401's. I prefer the LK401's as they 'feel' better to me. > I think the keys are slightly different in shape/angle. I just wish they > had the flap that at least some LK201's have to put the piece of cardboard > that shows what the function keys are mapped to. The LK401's that I have have a plasticy strip that (is supposed to) stick to the keyboard below the F keys. The adhesive gives up, though, after about a month. I'll probably just use a touch of hot-glue on the very ends, so I can get them free later... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 15 10:51:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Terminal question... Message-ID: Does anyone know if Zentec bought LSI or what? I recently got an ADM-11 and ADM-11plus for free, and they have Zentec Corp. stickers on them... Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From foo at siconic.com Tue Oct 15 12:11:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Terminal question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > Does anyone know if Zentec bought LSI or what? I recently got an ADM-11 and > ADM-11plus for free, and they have Zentec Corp. stickers on them... I don't if they bought them, but I know that Zentec made a nice VT-100 compatible terminal that I used with my very first S-100 box (a California Computer Systems get-up). The CRT can detach from the base, and the keyboard is also detached. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 15 13:14:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith Z-100 Software Message-ID: Hey all, I'm trying to get rid of some of the vast quantities of misc. random crud I have piled on every flat surface, and one those items is a stack o' Z-100 software. No manuals, but these are genuine original floppets, complete with Heath Zenith Data Systems labels.. I'd prefer someone with a Z-100 getting them, and a small amount of money would rock... Say $10? Disks are: MS-DOS VERSION 3 FOR THE Z-100 PC (Disk I and II) SUPERCALC 3 PROD DISK SUPERCALC 3 UTIL DISK MICROPRO WORDSTAR PROFESSIONAL CORRECTSTAR DICTIONARY rest are more wordstar flops so I'll save myself typing the whole name: PROFESSIONAL OPTIONS WORDSTAR TUTOR DISK I TUTOR DISK II Will J _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Tue Oct 15 16:06:00 2002 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16D55@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Yep, I just noticed one on ebay a little bit ago... I'm seriously thinking about it... Are these equivalent to the full-blown 6000 systems that I've seen show up in the past? What are you giving up by going with the rack-mount version? Also, anyone have a guess as to how heavy these are? (UPS shipable?) -al- -acorda@1bigred.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 7:19 PM > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. > > > I've recently acquired two of those rackmount VAX 6000's that > were being > sold on eBay. I paid more than I should've, but given the > nature of the > systems, I'd have gone higher. Though they're still hefty, they are > very small and light in comparison to the full sized VAX 6000's. > They're still built like tanks, but I'm able to move one easily by > myself. Well, at least as long as I don't have to pick it up off the > ground. The other huge plus with these is that they're > already wired up > for single-phase power--no hacks are required. The systems > have Hubbell > Twist-Lock connectors: L6-20 (20A @ 250V). It'll be trivial to hook > these up to household dryer circuits in the US. In their present > configurations, they've each a single 6000-400 CPU, 384MB of > RAM, three > XMI ethernet modules, an XMI FDDI module, and two XMI CI-bus modules. > My employer is planning on tossing out some of their old FDDI > concentrators, so it all works out rather nicely. > > I'm still trying to determine if the XMI card cage is the original XMI > or if it's XMI-2. Looking at the back of it, some of the > metal dividers > in the backplane are stamped with a date in 1991; this is after DEC > started producing the XMI-2 based VAX 6000 systems. If these > do support > the 500 and 600 series CPUs, I'm planning on turning at least one into > the world's smallest VAX 6660. The other will be a VAX 6420 with two > vector processors. MUH HA HAH!!! > > Another interesting thing with these systems is that they've > Intel asset > tags affixed to them. I've often heard it stated that Intel operated > the production control systems at their fabs with VAX/VMS systems. I > don't know if these systems served in that capacity or not, > but the guy > selling them is located only a few miles from Intel's Chandler, AZ > campus where several of Intel's fabs are located. > > As a side note, I'm often disappointed with the packing jobs of the > bulkier gear I buy online. That's not the case with this seller. He > seems to be well equipped for shipping heavy items. The > rackmount unit > was packed in a large box with thick foam surrounding it. The box was > also secured to wooden pallet and wrapped in plastic. It > took me about > half an hour to unpack everything. He really went crazy with the > plastic wrap. > > I believe he has more of these, three have already been put > up on eBay. > I've got my two, so I'm done throwing money at them; I expect > the others > will go for considerably less. > > -brian. > From oliv555 at arrl.net Tue Oct 15 17:37:00 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16D55@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3DACA45D.5070004@arrl.net> > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] >>Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 7:19 PM >>To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' >>Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. >> >> >>I've recently acquired two of those rackmount VAX 6000's that >>were being >>sold on eBay. I paid more than I should've, but given the >>nature of the >>systems, I'd have gone higher. Though they're still hefty, they are >>very small and light in comparison to the full sized VAX 6000's. >> >>I believe he has more of these, three have already been put >>up on eBay. >>I've got my two, so I'm done throwing money at them; I expect >>the others >>will go for considerably less. >> >>-brian. >> > Nice systems. Can these talk Unibus ? .... what module(s) would be required ? -nick o From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Oct 15 17:45:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16D55@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: > Yep, I just noticed one on ebay a little bit ago... I'm seriously > thinking about it... Are these equivalent to the full-blown 6000 > systems that I've seen show up in the past? What are you giving > up by going with the rack-mount version? Also, anyone have > a guess as to how heavy these are? (UPS shipable?) The main difference with this box is that it's not as expandable as a full VAX 6000. The big ones have ample space within them for disk drives, tape drives, and BI bus card cages. I think the full VAX 6000s come standard with one, maybe two BI bus card cages. These rackmount boxes only have an XMI bus. I suppose it'd be possible to hang BI busses off of this with an external box; that's if you needed to do so. As far as I can tell, there's no room for internal storage devices, so these systems will have to be netbooted or connected to CI attached disk drives. Given that these 6000s come with multiple ethernet interfaces, a FDDI interface, and a CI module--all of these will be options if you've got a little bit of infrastructure. The folks on comp.os.vms say that it's easy to boot this type of system over an ethernet based VAXcluster. Your disk I/O will be bottlenecked by the speed of the ethernet. I'm planning on running mine this way initially. I'd estimate the weight at somewhere between 150-200lbs. The seller shipped my stuff FedEx Ground. To ship it from Phoenix to SoCal cost a little more than $60 with full insurance. I've had very good luck with FedEx Ground in the past; I'd even say I prefer them to UPS. I'm a little biased though--my first "sizeable" VAX, a MicroVAX-II in BA123, was delivered by UPS. I watched in horror as the guy dropped it off the back of his truck from a height of about 4-5ft right onto the concrete. The VAX was rather badly dented, most all of the plastic bits were broken, and the plastic top was sheered off its bolts. I was not amused. Surprisingly, the VAX still ran fine, but it took a lot of epoxy and dent hammering to make it look presentable. -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Oct 15 17:56:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. In-Reply-To: <3DACA45D.5070004@arrl.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, no wrote: > Nice systems. Can these talk Unibus ? .... what module(s) would > be required ? I don't know of any XMI to Unibus modules. There are XMI to VAXBI modules, and there are VAXBI to Unibus modules. So you could do something like XMI<->VAXBI<->Unibus. You'd need to get the VAXBI and Unibus card cages and some sort of power supply and cabinet to make this work. I don't think it'd be trivial to do unless you've already got access to VAXBI and Unibus gear. For a fairly complete list of VAXBI and XMI modules see: http://www.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au/vax/VAXBI.html http://www.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au/vax/XMI.html -brian. From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 15 18:00:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: CP/M-86 (was Re: Heath/Zenith Z-100 Software) Message-ID: <20021015230333.XZYX27833.imf14bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Will Jennings > Hey all, > I'm trying to get rid of some of the vast quantities of misc. random crud I > have piled on every flat surface, and one those items is a stack o' Z-100 > software.> [snip list of software and *really* generous offer] > Will J Will, I'd love to take you up on this but for the following two Really Good Reasons: 1 -- I've already got the diskettes you mentioned. 2 -- Although I have a lot of MS-DOS software for the Z100, I have no intention of polluting yet another machine with MS products. To the group: as the proud owner of two really pristine Z100s (one with hard drive), I am amazed at the paucity of CP/M-86 software available for this system. Most of the CP/M-86 stuff on the 'net is of the "CP/M-86 for the IBM PC" flavor. And *forget* about CP/M-85! It seems as if nobody ever used the 8085 MPU in the Z100 . . . Anybody care to 'splain me why this is? Am I the only person on the planet who has/had any interest in running CP/M on the Z100?????? To me, running MS-DOS on a Z100 turns it into just another kinda-PC-clone. Later -- Glen 0/0 From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Oct 15 18:12:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. Message-ID: <200210152313.QAA23511@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Brian Chase" > ---snip--- >I'd estimate the weight at somewhere between 150-200lbs. The seller >shipped my stuff FedEx Ground. To ship it from Phoenix to SoCal cost a >little more than $60 with full insurance. I've had very good luck with >FedEx Ground in the past; I'd even say I prefer them to UPS. I'm a >little biased though--my first "sizeable" VAX, a MicroVAX-II in BA123, >was delivered by UPS. I watched in horror as the guy dropped it off the >back of his truck from a height of about 4-5ft right onto the concrete. I wonder if this is done on purpose. I had a EC-1 ( HeathKit analog computer ) shipped by UPS. They wanted me to pick it up at the depo so I did. When the guy brought it out, he says, "Gee, this is a heavy one!" as he dropped it on the counter ( about 1.5 foot drop ). I replied, carefully, not to let my anger show too much, " Yes, it is a rare old piece of vacuum tube gear". He had a funny expression on his face so I'm sure he understood how I felt. The fellow that packed it had no padding at all. Remarkably, the tubes were all OK but the inside chassis had bent a little, breaking some wires. I debated writing a complaint but decided it might cause issues with future deliveries. I've had some bad luck with FedEx as well so I don't think either does as good as they could. Partly, I think it is because the people handling things don't care about the quality of their work. It makes little difference if they do a good or bad job. They get paid the same. Dwight >The VAX was rather badly dented, most all of the plastic bits were >broken, and the plastic top was sheered off its bolts. I was not >amused. Surprisingly, the VAX still ran fine, but it took a lot of >epoxy and dent hammering to make it look presentable. > >-brian. > > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Oct 15 18:51:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( Message-ID: <013501c274a5$ebb88700$7800a8c0@george> > In news:3DAC9616.5EB1C69C@pacbell.net, yi ge mei you wei ba wrote: > > > Looks like california plates, but where ? I'd go grab it for you > > if I knew where it was .... no street signs in the photo :-) > > Area Code: 818 > Prefix: 762 > Location: North Hollywood > > Well this is as close as I can peg it. Wish someone would salvage it. In reference to: http://216.102.153.252/sgi.jpg For the graphically or bandwidth challenged, it's an Onyx sitting beside a dumptser. Possibly a troll, but if I was withing a half-days' drive I'd spend the weekend driving sidestreets to be sure... Bob From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Oct 15 19:03:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: CP/M-86 (was Re: Heath/Zenith Z-100 Software) Message-ID: <200210160004.RAA23555@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Glen Goodwin" > >> From: Will Jennings > >> Hey all, >> I'm trying to get rid of some of the vast quantities of misc. random crud >I >> have piled on every flat surface, and one those items is a stack o' Z-100 > >> software.> > >[snip list of software and *really* generous offer] > >> Will J > >Will, I'd love to take you up on this but for the following two Really Good >Reasons: > >1 -- I've already got the diskettes you mentioned. >2 -- Although I have a lot of MS-DOS software for the Z100, I have no >intention of polluting yet another machine with MS products. > >To the group: as the proud owner of two really pristine Z100s (one with >hard drive), I am amazed at the paucity of CP/M-86 software available for >this system. Most of the CP/M-86 stuff on the 'net is of the "CP/M-86 for >the IBM PC" flavor. > >And *forget* about CP/M-85! It seems as if nobody ever used the 8085 MPU >in the Z100 . . . Why would one have a CP/M-85. There are only a couple of instructions that are different than a 8080. Well written CP/M code shouldn't care what machine it was on, only the processor. Most general purpose CP/M-86 code should run on a Z100 under CP/M-86. What am I missing?? Dwight > >Anybody care to 'splain me why this is? Am I the only person on the planet >who has/had any interest in running CP/M on the Z100?????? To me, running >MS-DOS on a Z100 turns it into just another kinda-PC-clone. > >Later -- > >Glen >0/0 > From donm at cts.com Tue Oct 15 19:15:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Favorite terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > On 10/11/02, Zane H. Healy scribbled: > > > > Jerome Fine replies: > > > > > > I presume the LK201 and the LK401 are plug compatible? > > > > > > Also, what are the actual differences and why do you prefer > > > the LK401? > > > > Yes, they are compatable/interchangable. I've ended up with a LK201 > > attached to the VT420 on my PDP-11/73 somehow, but the rest of the VT420's > > I'm using have LK401's. I prefer the LK401's as they 'feel' better to me. > > I think the keys are slightly different in shape/angle. I just wish they > > had the flap that at least some LK201's have to put the piece of cardboard > > that shows what the function keys are mapped to. > > The LK401's that I have have a plasticy strip that (is supposed > to) stick to the keyboard below the F keys. The adhesive gives up, though, > after about a month. I'll probably just use a touch of hot-glue on the > very ends, so I can get them free later... Of course, there is always 'double sticky' Scotch tape. - don > -- > --- David A. Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > > From jss at subatomix.com Tue Oct 15 19:47:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1911126970.20021015194248@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > I'd estimate the weight at somewhere between 150-200lbs. BTW, the maximum weight for a UPS package is 150 lbs. > my first "sizeable" VAX, a MicroVAX-II in BA123, was delivered by UPS. I > watched in horror as the guy dropped it off the back of his truck from a > height of about 4-5ft right onto the concrete. My MicroPDP-11/23 in BA23 arrived in much the same fashion. The guy just heaved it out the back. The box was so beat up from that and whatever previous parcel rugby to which it had already been subject that it had multiple large holes in it, and the styronuts were leaking worse than Windows 95 at 30 days uptime. There were no sides anymore; the whole thing looked a lot like a big (ripped) cardboard pillow. Thankfully, the packer (a Mailboxes Etc, actually (!)) had done a decent job, and the machine was undamaged. I forget who told me, but was taught that, when packing an item to be shipped via UPS, you should engineer your solution to withstand drops onto a concrete floor from an altitude of at least 3 feet or 1 meter. -- Jeffrey Sharp From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Oct 15 20:00:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: <013501c274a5$ebb88700$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > In news:3DAC9616.5EB1C69C@pacbell.net, yi ge mei you wei ba wrote: > > > Looks like california plates, but where ? I'd go grab it for you > > > if I knew where it was .... no street signs in the photo :-) > > > > Area Code: 818 > > Prefix: 762 > > Location: North Hollywood > > > > Well this is as close as I can peg it. Wish someone would salvage it. > > In reference to: > http://216.102.153.252/sgi.jpg > > For the graphically or bandwidth challenged, it's an Onyx sitting beside a > dumptser. Possibly a troll, but if I was withing a half-days' drive I'd > spend the weekend driving sidestreets to be sure... The url isn't working for me, but it's probably not a troll. There are quite a few large vfx and animation shops out here. I might be able to identify the area if the pic was available. Nearly everyone in the movie business is dumping, or have already dumped, their non-essential SGI gear. -brian. From foo at siconic.com Tue Oct 15 20:10:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > The url isn't working for me, but it's probably not a troll. There are > quite a few large vfx and animation shops out here. I might be able to > identify the area if the pic was available. Nearly everyone in the movie > business is dumping, or have already dumped, their non-essential SGI > gear. I'd like to see the picture too so I can try to identify the area (just for kicks ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Oct 15 20:15:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:02 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD03@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> I just emailed the pic to Brian. --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 3:12 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Fw: Sign of the times :( > > > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > The url isn't working for me, but it's probably not a > troll. There are > > quite a few large vfx and animation shops out here. I might > be able to > > identify the area if the pic was available. Nearly everyone > in the movie > > business is dumping, or have already dumped, their non-essential SGI > > gear. > > I'd like to see the picture too so I can try to identify the > area (just > for kicks ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Oct 15 20:30:01 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Osbourne 1 problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, also, does anyone have the schematics for the composite adapter, or someplace where I can find one? I have heard rumors of an electronics store on the 'net that still carries them. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 05:56 PM, Feldman, Robert wrote: > I have an O1 Tech Ref manual, from which I can send you info that > might be > useful. I'm busy this week, so won't be until next, though. > > One thing to check is the video shunt on the front of the unit. It > takes the > video signals and power from the bottom of the board and passes them > to the > top, where they go to the monitor. If the contacts on the shunt are > oxidized, you could have video problems. > > The pinout of the edge connector is (numbered right to left, odd on > top, > even on bottom): > > (19 ... 1) > (20 ... 2) > > 2 Ground > 4 Brightness High ---> 3 on top > 6 Brightness Low ---> 5 on top > 8 Brightness Arm ---> 7 on top > 10 Ground > 12 Horiz Sync > 14 +12 volts > 16 Video Out > 18 Vert Sync > 20 Ground > > 3 and 7 go to the outsides of a 100K brightness pot, 5 to the wiper of > the > pot. > > Video out and one of the grounds go to a 500 ohm contrast pot. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sark [mailto:ian_primus@yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:08 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Osbourne 1 problems > > > I recently accquired an Osbourne 1 computer. I turned it on and it > seemed to work, I was able to boot BASIC off of a floppy and I wrote a > couple little programs, (print hello world, count to ten, and count > forever, stuff like that). The picture on the screen was kinda dark in > spots, and while the computer was counting, it flickered to a very dark > and barely readable, then it went black all together. I tried turning > up the brightness and contrast controls, the only one that makes any > change on the screen is the brightness control. I can see the rasters > when the brightness is up all the way, but the contrast control has no > effect. The computer seems to still work though, I can turn it on, then > hit enter and it will boot from the floppy. Previously, when it was > working, I noticed the screen flicker when the computer accessed the > floppy drive. My guess is that there is something wrong with the power > supply. Does anyone have any ideas? I would really like to get my > Osbourne working again, it's a really cool little computer. > > Thanks! > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Oct 15 20:42:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( References: Message-ID: <016101c274b5$854290f0$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:01 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Sign of the times :( > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > In news:3DAC9616.5EB1C69C@pacbell.net, yi ge mei you wei ba wrote: > > > > > Looks like california plates, but where ? I'd go grab it for you > > > > if I knew where it was .... no street signs in the photo :-) > > > > > > Area Code: 818 > > > Prefix: 762 > > > Location: North Hollywood > > > > > > Well this is as close as I can peg it. Wish someone would salvage it. > > > > In reference to: > > http://216.102.153.252/sgi.jpg > > > > For the graphically or bandwidth challenged, it's an Onyx sitting beside a > > dumptser. Possibly a troll, but if I was withing a half-days' drive I'd > > spend the weekend driving sidestreets to be sure... > > The url isn't working for me, but it's probably not a troll. There are > quite a few large vfx and animation shops out here. I might be able to > identify the area if the pic was available. Nearly everyone in the > movie business is dumping, or have already dumped, their non-essential > SGI gear. Wish they'd dump some my way. :) I'd _love_ to have a nice big Onyx to keep the VAX 6320 company. I have to keep the smaller computers away, so they don't get bullied... ^_^ > > -brian. Bob From archer at topnow.com Tue Oct 15 20:59:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( References: Message-ID: <3DACC863.D60FE9FD@topnow.com> Brian Chase wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > In news:3DAC9616.5EB1C69C@pacbell.net, yi ge mei you wei ba wrote: > > > > > Looks like california plates, but where ? I'd go grab it for you > > > > if I knew where it was .... no street signs in the photo :-) > > > > > > Area Code: 818 > > > Prefix: 762 > > > Location: North Hollywood > > > > > > Well this is as close as I can peg it. Wish someone would salvage it. > > > > In reference to: > > http://216.102.153.252/sgi.jpg > > > > For the graphically or bandwidth challenged, it's an Onyx sitting beside a > > dumptser. Possibly a troll, but if I was withing a half-days' drive I'd > > spend the weekend driving sidestreets to be sure... > > The url isn't working for me, but it's probably not a troll. There are > quite a few large vfx and animation shops out here. I might be able to > identify the area if the pic was available. Nearly everyone in the > movie business is dumping, or have already dumped, their non-essential > SGI gear. I'm curious now. If they're dumping all this SGI gear, what on earth are they replacing it with? Surely they still need ultra-high-performance multi-CPU systems to render and animate with. Or not? Maybe it's the little shops doing the dumping, which are hurting for work enough that SGI is just too expensive, and they make do with inferior tools (e.g. PCs and PC software) to reduce expenses? I still can't visualize a major studio settling for anything less than the real thing (tm). -- Ross > > -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Oct 15 21:07:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > The url isn't working for me, but it's probably not a troll. There are > > quite a few large vfx and animation shops out here. I might be able to > > identify the area if the pic was available. Nearly everyone in the movie > > business is dumping, or have already dumped, their non-essential SGI > > gear. > > I'd like to see the picture too so I can try to identify the area (just > for kicks ;) Here: http://world.std.com/~bdc/pics/sgi.jpg There's not a lot to go on, but someone familiar with the area might be able to identify it. Disney has extensive facilities in Glendale along Flower St. and in Burbank just off the 134. DreamWorks Animation is in the same neighborhood, but I know they don't have any Onyx systems. This /might/ be over there somewhere. The general consensus based on the feel of the surrounding buildings is that it's in the San Fernando Valley, but it's really hard to be positive as damn near all of Los Angeles County is ugly sprawl. My onsite SGI support engineer doesn't recognize the location, but I've sent out various inquiries to the people I know at other studios. It's also very possible that this is a system from one of the small post-production operations out here. That would make it a lot more difficult to track down before the trash people come to haul it away. -brian. From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Oct 15 21:14:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: <3DACC863.D60FE9FD@topnow.com> Message-ID: Seems to me someone is probably *moving* the SGI, and thought it would make a cute photo. Mr. Truck just hasn't shown up yet. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ross Archer Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 22:01 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Fw: Sign of the times :( Brian Chase wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > In news:3DAC9616.5EB1C69C@pacbell.net, yi ge mei you wei ba wrote: > > > > > Looks like california plates, but where ? I'd go grab it for you > > > > if I knew where it was .... no street signs in the photo :-) > > > > > > Area Code: 818 > > > Prefix: 762 > > > Location: North Hollywood > > > > > > Well this is as close as I can peg it. Wish someone would salvage it. > > > > In reference to: > > http://216.102.153.252/sgi.jpg > > > > For the graphically or bandwidth challenged, it's an Onyx sitting beside a > > dumptser. Possibly a troll, but if I was withing a half-days' drive I'd > > spend the weekend driving sidestreets to be sure... > > The url isn't working for me, but it's probably not a troll. There are > quite a few large vfx and animation shops out here. I might be able to > identify the area if the pic was available. Nearly everyone in the > movie business is dumping, or have already dumped, their non-essential > SGI gear. I'm curious now. If they're dumping all this SGI gear, what on earth are they replacing it with? Surely they still need ultra-high-performance multi-CPU systems to render and animate with. Or not? Maybe it's the little shops doing the dumping, which are hurting for work enough that SGI is just too expensive, and they make do with inferior tools (e.g. PCs and PC software) to reduce expenses? I still can't visualize a major studio settling for anything less than the real thing (tm). -- Ross > > -brian. From jplist at kiwigeek.com Tue Oct 15 21:15:00 2002 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not to ask a silly question - But if you don't know where the unit is, how did someone find the picture in the first place? Wouldn't it make sense to track the picture to its location rather than trying to place the picture? JP On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > > The url isn't working for me, but it's probably not a troll. There are > > > quite a few large vfx and animation shops out here. I might be able to > > > identify the area if the pic was available. Nearly everyone in the movie > > > business is dumping, or have already dumped, their non-essential SGI > > > gear. > > > > I'd like to see the picture too so I can try to identify the area (just > > for kicks ;) > > Here: http://world.std.com/~bdc/pics/sgi.jpg > > There's not a lot to go on, but someone familiar with the area might be > able to identify it. Disney has extensive facilities in Glendale along > Flower St. and in Burbank just off the 134. DreamWorks Animation is in > the same neighborhood, but I know they don't have any Onyx systems. This > /might/ be over there somewhere. The general consensus based on the feel > of the surrounding buildings is that it's in the San Fernando Valley, > but it's really hard to be positive as damn near all of Los Angeles > County is ugly sprawl. > > My onsite SGI support engineer doesn't recognize the location, but I've > sent out various inquiries to the people I know at other studios. It's > also very possible that this is a system from one of the small > post-production operations out here. That would make it a lot more > difficult to track down before the trash people come to haul it away. > > -brian. > > From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Oct 15 22:04:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: <3DACC863.D60FE9FD@topnow.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Ross Archer wrote: > I'm curious now. If they're dumping all this SGI gear, > what on earth are they replacing it with? > > Surely they still need ultra-high-performance multi-CPU > systems to render and animate with. Or not? > > Maybe it's the little shops doing the dumping, which are > hurting for work enough that SGI is just too expensive, and > they make do with inferior tools (e.g. PCs and PC software) > to reduce expenses? In case you haven't noticed, quite a few post-production studios have been replacing expensive SGI gear with farms of PCs running linux and whatever rendering software is available. It saves tons on cost, and can get the same job done faster. PC's provide about the best price/performance ratio of any available hardware... One example is Dreamworks: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6103 -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From foo at siconic.com Tue Oct 15 22:07:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > I'd like to see the picture too so I can try to identify the area (just > > for kicks ;) > > Here: http://world.std.com/~bdc/pics/sgi.jpg Oh yeah. That's...I have no idea where ;) I was assuming from the original message that there were clues as to where it might be. From that picture, it could be anywhere in North America or Europe. > There's not a lot to go on, but someone familiar with the area might be > able to identify it. Disney has extensive facilities in Glendale along North Hollywood and its surroundings are a BIG area. Good luck figuring out where this is unless you live down the street or work there. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Tue Oct 15 22:17:00 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: <3DACC863.D60FE9FD@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3DAC776D.32277.4F3A4C1@localhost> On 15 Oct 2002 at 19:01, Ross Archer wrote: > I'm curious now. If they're dumping all this SGI gear, > what on earth are they replacing it with? > > Surely they still need ultra-high-performance multi-CPU > systems to render and animate with. Or not? > Or perhaps traditional ink and cel animation is coming back into fashion? :) -- Scarletdown From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Oct 15 22:25:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( References: Message-ID: <3DACDD16.8020809@tiac.net> Yep, its all being run on PC's and Mac's, the days of dedicated multiprocessors for rendering have passed. Even my beloved ICE multiprocessor boards are slower than PC's running Windows applications. Patrick Finnegan wrote: >On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Ross Archer wrote: > >>I'm curious now. If they're dumping all this SGI gear, >>what on earth are they replacing it with? >> >>Surely they still need ultra-high-performance multi-CPU >>systems to render and animate with. Or not? >> >>Maybe it's the little shops doing the dumping, which are >>hurting for work enough that SGI is just too expensive, and >>they make do with inferior tools (e.g. PCs and PC software) >>to reduce expenses? >> > >In case you haven't noticed, quite a few post-production studios have been >replacing expensive SGI gear with farms of PCs running linux and whatever >rendering software is available. It saves tons on cost, and can get the >same job done faster. PC's provide about the best price/performance >ratio of any available hardware... > >One example is Dreamworks: > >http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6103 > >-- >"This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is > completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" > -- Anonymous >http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021015/0f284786/attachment.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Oct 15 22:35:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( References: <3DAC776D.32277.4F3A4C1@localhost> Message-ID: <3DACDE67.1020304@jetnet.ab.ca> Scarletdown wrote: > On 15 Oct 2002 at 19:01, Ross Archer wrote: >>Surely they still need ultra-high-performance multi-CPU >>systems to render and animate with. Or not? > Or perhaps traditional ink and cel animation is coming back into > fashion? :) You don't watch much Japanese Animation do you. It is only the USA that can't draw and needs to go computer generated 3D. I suspect that software rather than hardware is the factor here as it seems all TOP 3D animation uses custom in house software. A lot of traditional ink and cel style animation is done on computer but it does not have the "special effects look" that 3D has,so most people don't notice it. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Oct 15 22:57:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: from "Ben Franchuk" at Oct 15, 2002 09:35:03 PM Message-ID: <200210160358.g9G3wYA12972@shell1.aracnet.com> > You don't watch much Japanese Animation do you. > It is only the USA that can't draw and needs to > go computer generated 3D. I suspect that software > rather than hardware is the factor here as it seems > all TOP 3D animation uses custom in house software. > A lot of traditional ink and cel style animation > is done on computer but it does not have the > "special effects look" that 3D has,so most people > don't notice it. I watch a lot of Japanese Anime, and trust me, there is a lot of computer generated work in there. While I've not seen much computer generated 3D animation, there is definitly a lot of 2D that is computer generated. On the 3D note, I was rather disappointed when I got the "Lensman" movie on Laserdisc a few months ago. I'd seen it back in '93, and had forgotten that it had a bunch of 3D animation mixed in with the traditional 2D. Simply put, 3D animation, doesn't always age that well! Zane From fernande at internet1.net Tue Oct 15 23:14:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( References: <3DAC776D.32277.4F3A4C1@localhost> <3DACDE67.1020304@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3DACE7F6.9040607@internet1.net> Ben Franchuk wrote: > You don't watch much Japanese Animation do you. > It is only the USA that can't draw and needs to > go computer generated 3D. Anime doesn't have the detail or frames per second of US animation. I've noticed the Japanese are doing computer generated stuff too. Some of the stuff I've seen an Cartoon network has got to be computer generated. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From marvin at rain.org Tue Oct 15 23:16:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: Message-ID: <3DACE814.685E5EDE@rain.org> Hi Kevin, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I have only one, and it is untested. If you want it, let me know your shipping address and I'll find out what the shipping cost will be. Thanks! Marvin > kevin wong wrote: > > Hi Marvin, > > If you still have these ones ,please contact me .I want to buy some. > Kevin. > Apollo Keyboard w/ Logitech 3-button Mouse - $5.00 plus shipping for > 6 > pounds from zip code 93105. Email me if interested. > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Oct 15 23:52:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( References: <3DAC776D.32277.4F3A4C1@localhost> <3DACDE67.1020304@jetnet.ab.ca> <3DACE7F6.9040607@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3DACF06C.2050003@jetnet.ab.ca> Chad Fernandez wrote: > Ben Franchuk wrote: > >> You don't watch much Japanese Animation do you. >> It is only the USA that can't draw and needs to >> go computer generated 3D. > > > Anime doesn't have the detail or frames per second of US animation. I've > noticed the Japanese are doing computer generated stuff too. Some of > the stuff I've seen an Cartoon network has got to be computer generated. Cartoon network is not the place to watch Anime. While both the US and Japanese animators are under both money and time pressure to crank out TV shows, it is the movies that show the talent of the artist. Anime is a kid's product from the US point of view, where everywhere else it is respected prime time media ranging from general vewing to very XXX rated products with all sorts of storylines ranging from cute to horror and gore. Right now the problem is not generating 3D but rather developing a interface that a arist can use quickly and effectivly. The DVD Shrek has a lot on how they made the movie. Computers are just a tool and they will always comeup with new ways to use them. 2D animation seems nowdays to use more specal effect shots like zooming and depth of field that computers are good at with helping the artist. Both 2D and 3D are more state of the art than most people think but 3D still needs work to have people look realistic and still generate quickly. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Oct 16 00:32:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: freebies in preparation of moving! References: <3D9E91EC.1000804@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3DACFA56.7020602@internet1.net> Chad Fernandez wrote: > -2 DEC fan sleds with fans for BA440 chassis, from R400X DSSI Expansion > Chassis > > -1 power supply for BA440 chassis, from R400X DSSI Expansion Chassis > > -Linear power supply from old Sperry external drive case, 12vdc 2amp, > 5vdc 3.5 amp > > -Kensington System saver for a Mac Plus, SE, etc > > located in southwest Michigan, but I'll ship at the cost of the new owner. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA The above is all still available. It's all gonna get tossed, or given to Goodwill if no one claims them. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 16 01:35:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. In-Reply-To: <1911126970.20021015194248@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20021016063618.75766.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > I forget who told me, but was taught that, when packing an item to be > shipped via UPS, you should engineer your solution to withstand drops > onto a > concrete floor from an altitude of at least 3 feet or 1 meter. Dunno if you heard it from me, but an older brother of my high-school girlfriend worked for UPS... he warned me to pack stuff as if it were going to be thrown from a car moving at 30 mph - they have a conveyer belt about 3' tall moving about that fast... stuff falls off every day. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 16 01:45:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Unibus on a VAX 6000 (was Re: New VAX 6000 toys.) In-Reply-To: <3DACA45D.5070004@arrl.net> Message-ID: <20021016064659.77340.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- no wrote: > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] > >>Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 7:19 PM > >>To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > >>Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. > >> > >> > >>I've recently acquired two of those rackmount VAX 6000's that > >>were being sold on eBay. > > Nice systems. Can these talk Unibus ? .... what module(s) would > be required ? If they can take it, you'd need a DWBUA on a VAXBI bus (there is no Unibus adapter for XMI). ISTR when the 6000 was current that DEC imposed a limit on how fast a machine could take a DWBUA, not to screw the customer, but because some of the (then) newer machines had so many layers between the Unibus peripherals and memory that timings could not be maintained. So... AFAIK, a DWBUA will work with some models of 6000, but not necessarily all. What you would need is: the DWBUA BI module itself (T1010?), four 30-pin cables, a Unibus paddle card and a UET (Unibus Exerciser/Terminator) All parts are required. The DWBUA talks to UET registers and won't come on unless they respond. That's where mine is. I can see the BI register (X + 0xF0, IIRC) that holds the test results. It seems to mostly come up with one of my three UETs, but not entirely. I also have a DWBUA I (not quite) repaired - a DC021C chip blew up (literally) on two modules from immediately after I moved the 8200 to my basement. I have robbed Peter to pay Paul and moved a chip from the board with crisped traces to the non-critically damaged board. That one seems to have an internal memory fault with the microcontroller, according to the error code. It does not appear to be attempting to talk to the UET. Perhaps someone here more familiar with the 6000 can speak with some authority about what models a DWBUA might work with. -ethan P.S. - you'll also need a BA-11 with at least one DD11-DK backplane for the actual Unibus itself, but that may be obvious. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 16 02:46:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I was assuming from the original message that there were clues as to where > it might be. From that picture, it could be anywhere in North America or > Europe. If you notice the car on the left of the image, it gives two clues that show the location is in the US somewhere. The license plate, even though you can't see all of it, is US sized. The steering wheel is also on the left side of the car. Another noticeable item in the photo is the DSS dish on the roof of the red brick building. If might actually be possible to identify the owner of car in the photo, by matching up the last two digits of the license plate '78', if the general city/state can be identified. It might also be possible to identify the company that owns the dumpster... -Toth From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Oct 16 03:06:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( References: Message-ID: <003e01c274eb$1b76eaf0$073bcd18@D73KSM11> > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > I was assuming from the original message that there were clues as to where > > it might be. From that picture, it could be anywhere in North America or > > Europe. > > If might actually be possible to identify the owner of car in the photo, > by matching up the last two digits of the license plate '78', if the > general city/state can be identified. It might also be possible to > identify the company that owns the dumpster... Looks like it might be a Maryland plate if, as it appears, it's black on white.. From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Oct 16 03:12:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016181524.025182e0@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 02:47 AM 16/10/2002 -0500, Tothwolf wrote: >If you notice the car on the left of the image, it gives two clues that >show the location is in the US somewhere. The license plate, even though >you can't see all of it, is US sized. The steering wheel is also on the >left side of the car. Another noticeable item in the photo is the DSS dish >on the roof of the red brick building. I'm inclined to agree that this photo is from the US, but of course the majority of cars in Europe have the steering wheel on the left hand side of the car. If the UK is anything to go by, there are lots of satellite dishes there too... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Oct 16 03:15:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016181702.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> OK, this is a long shot but with this group, you never know. I'd like to try to identify the first computer I saw "in the flesh" so to speak. This would have been 1965 or 1966 and it was at Keele University (in the UK). Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I would find this out? I've already tried sending e-mail to the computer centre at Keele a few years ago but didn't get very far. Whatever computer it is has a lot to answer for! Yes, I'm getting old but I was 10 or 11 at the time.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Oct 16 03:50:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016181524.025182e0@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > At 02:47 AM 16/10/2002 -0500, Tothwolf wrote: > > If you notice the car on the left of the image, it gives two clues that > > show the location is in the US somewhere. The license plate, even though > > you can't see all of it, is US sized. The steering wheel is also on the > > left side of the car. Another noticeable item in the photo is the DSS dish > > on the roof of the red brick building. > > I'm inclined to agree that this photo is from the US, but of course > the majority of cars in Europe have the steering wheel on the left > hand side of the car. If the UK is anything to go by, there are lots > of satellite dishes there too... Revisting the first message about this to the mailing list, the original message can be traced back to this post today in comp.sys.sgi.misc: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3DAC895C.62302443%40hammerhead.com&oe=UTF-8 The original poster's IP address which happens to be for Pac*Bell ADSL. So it's most likely California where that poster lives. The license plate doesn't conflict with the style of current California plates. The surrounding vegetation, especially the tree in the foreground, matches that of SoCal. And the soft atmospheric haze you see in the picture does actually match what we've been having here in Los Angeles for the past couple of days. It's been bright and hazy due to the marine layer from the morning through nearly noon time. Since the original message was posted at 2:33pm PST, and he mentioned seeing this earlier in the day, it doesn't contradict a hypothesis of it being local to L.A. Also, http://www.hammerhead.com/, the website associated with the domain of the original poster, is a small vfx company local to North Hollywood. Since he said that the Onyx was located at an area service provider, that will might narrow things down quite a bit. I'm assuming it's at an SGI service provider. The main one is SGI of course, but there are some others in town. -brian. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Oct 16 04:09:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Osbourne 1 problems Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AEF7@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >Oh, also, does anyone have the schematics for the composite adapter, or >someplace where I can find one? I have heard rumors of an electronics >store on the 'net that still carries them. The Tech Ref has schematics for lost of Osborne stuff (including data sheets for the PSU and the Motorola (?) data sheet for the monitor). I don't recall whether that adapter is in there ... I have the tech ref scanned - I can ftp it to you if you have 67MB or so free. Or if someone is willing to host it, that would be even better (the user guide is only an additional 127MB ...) Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Oct 16 04:20:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034263@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >The main difference with this box is that it's not as expandable as a >full VAX 6000. The big ones have ample space within them for disk >drives, tape drives, and BI bus card cages. I think the full VAX 6000s >come standard with one, maybe two BI bus card cages. My VAX 6000 is no longer here, so I have to go on memory. Pretty much all there is in a standard 6000 is a row of PSUs at the top, a row with the VAXBI and XMI busses and - right at the bottom - a converter/coditioner that takes the incoming power feed and presents it to the rest of the box. There is a large gap with plenty of air in it. About the only thing you could use it for was a late-breaking internal storage addon. Every 6000 I've seen had external storage (mostly via CI, since that's what big customers were expected to do). Internally it cannot have been much wider that 19" so I would guess that the rack-mount version would be about the same but without the large wad of air :-) >These rackmount boxes only have an XMI bus. I suppose it'd be possible >to hang BI busses off of this with an external box; that's if you needed Is there no space for a VAXBI? My box had an XMI to the right and two VAXBIs to the left (IIRC). >on comp.os.vms say that it's easy to boot this type of system over an >ethernet based VAXcluster. Your disk I/O will be bottlenecked by the >speed of the ethernet. I'm planning on running mine this way initially. I've done this - it works well. Especially nice is botting from an InfoServer for upgrades etc. Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 16 06:31:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > If might actually be possible to identify the owner of car in the photo, > by matching up the last two digits of the license plate '78', if the > general city/state can be identified. It might also be possible to > identify the company that owns the dumpster... What if the car was shipped over to Europe? Hey, it's possible! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 16 06:33:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016181702.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > I'd like to try to identify the first computer I saw "in the flesh" > so to speak. This would have been 1965 or 1966 and it was at Keele > University (in the UK). > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I would find this out? I've > already tried sending e-mail to the computer centre at Keele a few years > ago but didn't get very far. Give us some physical descriptions and anything else you can remember. If anyone can figure out what it was it will be us here. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Wed Oct 16 07:49:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016181702.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <002e01c27512$9d142740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I'd like to try to identify the first computer I saw "in the flesh"... > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I would find this out? Try to write a thousand word essay. How big was it? What parts did you see, Did you use cards, printouts or a CRT? If you don't remember anything then we could pick any random computer and say it was it . If you do, start writing it down so other people can identify it. I found my firster, a Minivac601, starting where all I really remembered was that it was small and that it had a spinning bit. John A. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Oct 16 07:54:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Osbourne 1 problems Message-ID: As I posted on 5/30, Alltronics has an adaptor that looks like what I had for my O1 (which I no longer have). The link is http://www.alltronics.com/computer_miscellaneous.htm and the catalog number is #92C024. they are only $4.95, so you won't be out much if they are not the right one. The description also fits: "Requires +12V (or +5V) and video, vertical drive, horizontal drive signals. Produces RS-170 type composite video output. Fully assembled with 74125 sync regenerator, 3 terminal regulator, 2N2222 transistor. Only 2" square." Bob -----Original Message----- From: Sark [mailto:ian_primus@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 4:42 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Osbourne 1 problems Oh, also, does anyone have the schematics for the composite adapter, or someplace where I can find one? I have heard rumors of an electronics store on the 'net that still carries them. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 05:56 PM, Feldman, Robert wrote: > I have an O1 Tech Ref manual, from which I can send you info that > might be > useful. I'm busy this week, so won't be until next, though. > > One thing to check is the video shunt on the front of the unit. It > takes the > video signals and power from the bottom of the board and passes them > to the > top, where they go to the monitor. If the contacts on the shunt are > oxidized, you could have video problems. > > The pinout of the edge connector is (numbered right to left, odd on > top, > even on bottom): > > (19 ... 1) > (20 ... 2) > > 2 Ground > 4 Brightness High ---> 3 on top > 6 Brightness Low ---> 5 on top > 8 Brightness Arm ---> 7 on top > 10 Ground > 12 Horiz Sync > 14 +12 volts > 16 Video Out > 18 Vert Sync > 20 Ground > > 3 and 7 go to the outsides of a 100K brightness pot, 5 to the wiper of > the > pot. > > Video out and one of the grounds go to a 500 ohm contrast pot. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sark [mailto:ian_primus@yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:08 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Osbourne 1 problems > > > I recently accquired an Osbourne 1 computer. I turned it on and it > seemed to work, I was able to boot BASIC off of a floppy and I wrote a > couple little programs, (print hello world, count to ten, and count > forever, stuff like that). The picture on the screen was kinda dark in > spots, and while the computer was counting, it flickered to a very dark > and barely readable, then it went black all together. I tried turning > up the brightness and contrast controls, the only one that makes any > change on the screen is the brightness control. I can see the rasters > when the brightness is up all the way, but the contrast control has no > effect. The computer seems to still work though, I can turn it on, then > hit enter and it will boot from the floppy. Previously, when it was > working, I noticed the screen flicker when the computer accessed the > floppy drive. My guess is that there is something wrong with the power > supply. Does anyone have any ideas? I would really like to get my > Osbourne working again, it's a really cool little computer. > > Thanks! > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Oct 16 07:56:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <002e01c27512$9d142740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from John Allain at "Oct 16, 2 08:50:31 am" Message-ID: <200210161306.GAA24306@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I found my firster, a Minivac601, starting where all I really remembered > was that it was small and that it had a spinning bit. I feel so young. The first computer I ever saw was a TI 99/4A. I was six (it was 1982 IIRC). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm still right. ------- From allain at panix.com Wed Oct 16 07:58:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Atari Arcade Basketball board References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016181702.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <003401c27513$c57e1c80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> available: Atari Arcade Basketball ('79) board. This board is about 11"x17" and has about 75 chips. There are a few empty sockets but they may have been for expansion. I've heard people on the list say that old tech chips are getting hard to find Available to the list or it gets tossed in one week. John A. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Oct 16 07:58:23 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021016085421.00fc7e98@pop1.epm.net.co> At 08:08 PM 10/15/02 -0700, you wrote: >I was assuming from the original message that there were clues as to where >it might be. From that picture, it could be anywhere in North America or >Europe. Yes, but chances are that it is in the U.S. In most other countries, the average size of cars is smaller and the chance of finding a sport utility vehicle is much smaller. There is also a standard frame truck to the right-another sign. Plus, I see a distribution transformer on a pole (europeans try to avoid this whenever possible) and last, but not least, that transformer is single-phase. Distribution transformers in most of western Europe are usually 3-phase. Plus, you don't usually see dumpsters with that shape in Europe (though this is just a subjective appreciation). So taking all things together, I'd say I'm 95% sure that it is in the U.S., somewhere without severe winters (no below-freezing temperatures - look at the trees). carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Oct 16 08:12:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016181524.025182e0@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021016090825.00fc75a4@pop1.epm.net.co> At 01:51 AM 10/16/02 -0700, you wrote: >Also, http://www.hammerhead.com/, the website associated with the domain >of the original poster, is a small vfx company local to North Hollywood. >Since he said that the Onyx was located at an area service provider, >that will might narrow things down quite a bit. I'm assuming it's at an >SGI service provider. The main one is SGI of course, but there are some >others in town. >-brian. Provider of what? Some cable and telephone companies own SGI hardware that they use to run GIS software such as Arcinfo with many layers of data; it is essential for their maintenance and repair operations. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Oct 16 08:31:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016181702.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016233129.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 04:34 AM 16/10/2002 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > > > I'd like to try to identify the first computer I saw "in the flesh" > > so to speak. This would have been 1965 or 1966 and it was at Keele > > University (in the UK). > > > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I would find this out? I've > > already tried sending e-mail to the computer centre at Keele a few years > > ago but didn't get very far. > >Give us some physical descriptions and anything else you can remember. If >anyone can figure out what it was it will be us here. Geez. I can hardly remember what a DECsystem-10 looks like and I've got photos! Half of Australia's red wine production over the last 10 years has passed through my house (and me :-) so the long term memory has been replaced with tannins.... All I can remember is a largish (blue?) slightly circular console (say 4 to 6 feet long) with switches and lights (no CRTs) and possibly a separate room filled with valves. This would make some sense for a system installed in the early to mid-60s. OK super classic computer sleuths, any suggestions? My guess is that the system is likely to be of UK origin but.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Oct 16 08:38:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <002e01c27512$9d142740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016181702.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016233557.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 08:50 AM 16/10/2002 -0400, John Allain wrote: > > I'd like to try to identify the first computer I saw "in the flesh"... > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I would find this out? > >Try to write a thousand word essay. How big was it? What parts did >you see, Did you use cards, printouts or a CRT? If you don't remember >anything then we could pick any random computer and say it was it . >If you do, start writing it down so other people can identify it. OK, in addition to the e-mail I just sent out a few barrels of fine port have also disappeared over the years so my memory is not what it used to be :-) In reality, a major motorcycle accident when I was younger is the real culprit but that's another story.... There was definitely a printer. As part of the tour, we took part in a simple reaction test. There was a bulb that came on and we had to move a very nice metal polished switch from on to off (or vice versa) and we got a printout of the reaction time. From memory, mine was 1.2 seconds and I recall my parents saying that I was so slow because I'd been up late the night before. Given that in later life I had a reputation of catching fast moving cricket balls at little or no notice (I hate fielding more than 3m from the bat) maybe it was just a late night (or awe of the computer). I'm fairly sure the main console was sky blue, polished metal switches and white lights with small round covers and metal bezels. I don't recall seeing drums/disks/tape readers/punches but they must have had some, if not all, of these. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Oct 16 08:41:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <200210161306.GAA24306@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <002e01c27512$9d142740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016234359.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 06:06 AM 16/10/2002 -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > I found my firster, a Minivac601, starting where all I really remembered > > was that it was small and that it had a spinning bit. > >I feel so young. The first computer I ever saw was a TI 99/4A. I was six >(it was 1982 IIRC). You youngsters should just stay in your playpens for a decade or so, so that you can turn into grumpy old computer programmers/collectors like the rest of us :-) On a serious note, it's good to see younger people interested in the history of computing... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Oct 16 09:05:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016234359.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> from Huw Davies at "Oct 16, 2 11:45:32 pm" Message-ID: <200210161416.HAA27764@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > I found my firster, a Minivac601, starting where all I really remembered > > > was that it was small and that it had a spinning bit. > > > > I feel so young. The first computer I ever saw was a TI 99/4A. I was six > > (it was 1982 IIRC). > > You youngsters should just stay in your playpens for a decade or so, so > that you can turn into grumpy old computer programmers/collectors like the > rest of us :-) After 20 years, though, I finally do have a TI 99/4A. But I still have the first computer my parents bought me (a Tomy Tutor). :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If two wrongs don't make a right, try three. -- Laurence J. Peter ---------- From jss at subatomix.com Wed Oct 16 09:24:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016234359.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> References: <002e01c27512$9d142740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <4.3.2.7.2.20021016234359.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <1922933958.20021016092007@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > You youngsters should just stay in your playpens for a decade or so, so > that you can turn into grumpy old computer programmers/collectors like the > rest of us :-) Ahem. grumpy old computer programmers/collectors \____/ \__________/ \_________/ \________/ | | | | | | | \__ I do that. | | \__ I do that. | \__ Got some of those. \__ Hell yeah. Oh, I get it: You want us to wait for a decade so that you can have all the nice machines that turn up between now and then! :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Oct 16 09:27:01 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: HP ThinkJet 2225P References: Message-ID: <3DAD76AE.9A54E130@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > From what I remember, the -A is HPIB, the -B HPIL (and also > battery-powered), the -C Centronics, the -D and -D+ RS232 and the -P > Centronics and battery powered. Mine's a 2225BU and is HP-IL interfaced and battery powered. There's a mains input directly into the battery pack (built-in charger). -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Wed Oct 16 09:29:01 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016181702.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <000201c27520$409e13a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Information on the Manchester site suggests that the first computing Keele had was a link to the 1905F in Manchester ... but this is later than the date you note. In the (late) 1960s UK Universities almost all had one of ICT (ICL) 1900 series (the majority) or 4100 series (I have a vague recollection that Keele was in this group) and a few System 4 (IBM 360 clone) (most of the SW Universities had this) There were still the Atlas & Atlas 2 computers in place in London, Manchester, & Cambridge (& Rutherford labs) Some KDF9s were still around including, I think, Oxford & Leeds. Possible a Pegasus or two. A few had managed to beat the "buy British" policy thus CDC6600 at ULCC IBM 360/65 at UCL IBM 360/67 (NUMAC) at Newcastle IBM 7094 at IC There were some PDP10s - but mainly owned by well-funded departments rather than the central university - and other PDPs When I started work at City University a couple of years later the complete list of digital computers in the University was approximately 1 ICT 1905 (32K 24 bit word core, 3x4 Megacharacter (6-bit) disk drives) 1 EAL 690 Hybrid computer (the digital part - EAI 640 - was similar to an IBM 1130) 1 PDP 11/20 (in computer science) 1 or 2 Marconi process-control-type systems in automation engineering. That was all (the Pegasus had been dismantled a couple of years earlier). Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Huw Davies > Sent: 16 October 2002 09:20 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Classic Computer Question > > > OK, this is a long shot but with this group, you never know. > > I'd like to try to identify the first computer I saw "in the flesh" > so to speak. This would have been 1965 or 1966 and it was at Keele > University (in the UK). > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I would find this out? I've > already tried sending e-mail to the computer centre at Keele a few years > ago but didn't get very far. > > Whatever computer it is has a lot to answer for! > > Yes, I'm getting old but I was 10 or 11 at the time.... > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au > | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > | air, the sky would be painted green" > > From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Oct 16 09:42:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Questions about a HP Apollo 735/125 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021008230323.00e50cf8@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <02100802345701.00810@dh9dat-w> <3.0.2.32.20021008230323.00e50cf8@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20021016144409.GC4769319@uiuc.edu> Carlos Murillo said: > At 02:34 AM 10/8/02 +0000, you wrote: > > Yes, as long as the monitor can accept a sync-on-green signal > (not all SuperVGA monitors do). And if it does, you can just use a BNC cabe to hook up to BNC terminals on a PC multisync monitor; or if you don't have one of those, use a 5BNC-HD15 cable and just hook up the RGB connectors. It'll work, so long as your monitor supports sync-on-green. > The PROM only works with HP cards and some specially-made third-party > cards. Your best bet is to obtain an appropriate transceiver > and plug it in the AUI connector. Definitly. I've looked for EISA cards for my 735's (I have 2), and failed...they're not so easy to come by. > The 735/125 is a nice machine; built like a tank and very reliable. > I have one that I still use regularly. You can use > wide scsi (high-voltage differential) drives with it. Or narrow SCSI! One of the best 735 features is the 2 SCSI busses, 1 narrow and 1 wide, and the 2 drive sleds you can get for it. My 735/125 has 2 4GB seagate drives in it on the narrow bus. BTW, are you sure the wide bus is HVD? I didn't think it was, as HP is always very careful about labeling things like that and neither the port nor the terminator that came with it is labeled HVD...but then, I haven't used the wide bus for anything so I don't know for sure. > You need HP-UX 10.2 for it (though it has been said > that a special installation of HPUX 11 will work in it, > though it is not supported). HPUX 10.x of any sort...I have 10.20 from June 2001 on my machines... > found the keyboard and mouse; these are really nice > systems. They're fantastic, I highly recommend getting it working! > > I have some more info on this system; please contact me > off the list. > > carlos. > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From claudew at videotron.ca Wed Oct 16 09:56:00 2002 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:03 2005 Subject: Looking for this old software : lanview for Cabletron bridge References: Message-ID: <004401c27524$fe2c8c40$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi all I dont know if this is abandonware or what... But I have an old Cabletron bridge NB-25E that I fixed and would like to fiddle/play with. Unit says on front "...with remote lanview and management...." From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Oct 16 10:12:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Looking for this old software : lanview for Cabletron bridge In-Reply-To: <004401c27524$fe2c8c40$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: On 10/16/02, Claude.W scribbled: > Hi all > > I dont know if this is abandonware or what... > > But I have an old Cabletron bridge NB-25E that I fixed and would like to > fiddle/play with. > > Unit says on front "...with remote lanview and management...." > > From what I know, "lanview" was a software - I dont knwo what lanview did > with this thing...just curious...so I am looking for this "lanview" (?) > software... > > Or any other info... > That rings a small bell here. I have a couple Cabletron MRX-I hubs, that I believe say something like that on the front of them. I haven't look to see if there is software, but I have hooked my trusty VT420 to the management port on them, for configuring and whatnot... I seem to remember something about being able to use SNMP to fiddle with them too... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 16 10:17:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Atari Arcade Basketball board In-Reply-To: <003401c27513$c57e1c80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, John Allain wrote: > available: Atari Arcade Basketball ('79) board. > > This board is about 11"x17" and has about 75 chips. > There are a few empty sockets but they may have been for > expansion. > > I've heard people on the list say that old tech chips are getting > hard to find Available to the list or it gets tossed in one week. You should pitch this at the rec.videogame.retro (something like that) newsgroups. Folks there will most likely pay you good money for it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 16 10:18:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021016085421.00fc7e98@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote: > Yes, but chances are that it is in the U.S. In most other countries, > the average size of cars is smaller and the chance of finding a sport > utility vehicle is much smaller. There is also a standard frame > truck to the right-another sign. Plus, I see a distribution transformer on > a pole (europeans try to avoid this whenever possible) and last, but not > least, that transformer is single-phase. Distribution transformers > in most of western Europe are usually 3-phase. Plus, you don't > usually see dumpsters with that shape in Europe (though this is just > a subjective appreciation). > > So taking all things together, I'd say I'm 95% sure that it is in > the U.S., somewhere without severe winters (no below-freezing > temperatures - look at the trees). We have quite a number of detectives on the list ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 16 10:23:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016233129.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > Geez. I can hardly remember what a DECsystem-10 looks like and I've got > photos! Half of Australia's red wine production over the last 10 years has > passed through my house (and me :-) so the long term memory has been > replaced with tannins.... Your memory may go but all the anti-oxidants in the wine will keep your heart pumping blood to your empty brain, pulsating with faded glimpses of past glory ;) > All I can remember is a largish (blue?) slightly circular console (say 4 to > 6 feet long) with switches and lights (no CRTs) and possibly a separate > room filled with valves. This would make some sense for a system installed > in the early to mid-60s. My first guess: a PDP-1. http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/vs-dec-pdp-1.jpg Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jss at subatomix.com Wed Oct 16 10:36:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: OT: Anime (was: Sign of the times) In-Reply-To: <3DACF06C.2050003@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3DAC776D.32277.4F3A4C1@localhost> <3DACDE67.1020304@jetnet.ab.ca> <3DACE7F6.9040607@internet1.net> <3DACF06C.2050003@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1407254671.20021016103207@subatomix.com> Well, this *is* cctalk... :-) On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Anime is a kid's product from the US point of view, where everywhere else > it is respected prime time media ranging from general vewing to very XXX > rated products with all sorts of storylines ranging from cute to horror > and gore. Ben is right. I was introduced to anime last year (though I had watched Robotech as a kid), and I love it. There's everything from kiddie stuff (e.g. Pokemon) to heady, intellectual stuff (e.g. Evangelion) to stuff that can only be described as 'tentacle porn'. I just watched the recent US release of 'The End of Evangelion'. It and the 26-episode Evangelion TV series that precedes it are IMHO currently the most entertaining thing one can play on a screen. > While both the US and Japanese animators are under both money and time > pressure to crank out TV shows, it is the movies that show the talent of > the artist. I agree, but it is also important to note that anime TV series typically have one all-important quality that most US animated TV series lack: continuity. US TV animation is episodic: crisis and resolution occur within 30 minutes, and there is no plot beyond that. Every episode starts in the same basic universe, and by the end of the episode, nothing has changed. Many anime series, however, have an overall plot, and each episode is just a tiny window into that. Evangelion, for instance, is like a 13-hour movie. > Cartoon network is not the place to watch Anime. Where is? -- Jeffrey Sharp From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Oct 16 10:55:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Questions about a HP Apollo 735/125 In-Reply-To: <20021016144409.GC4769319@uiuc.edu> References: <3.0.2.32.20021008230323.00e50cf8@pop1.epm.net.co> <02100802345701.00810@dh9dat-w> <3.0.2.32.20021008230323.00e50cf8@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021016115134.00f3ac24@pop1.epm.net.co> At 09:44 AM 10/16/02 -0500, you wrote: >> The 735/125 is a nice machine; built like a tank and very reliable. >> I have one that I still use regularly. You can use >> wide scsi (high-voltage differential) drives with it. > >Or narrow SCSI! One of the best 735 features is the 2 SCSI busses, 1 narrow >and 1 wide, and the 2 drive sleds you can get for it. My 735/125 has 2 4GB >seagate drives in it on the narrow bus. > >BTW, are you sure the wide bus is HVD? I didn't think it was, as HP is always >very careful about labeling things like that and neither the port nor the >terminator that came with it is labeled HVD...but then, I haven't used the >wide bus for anything so I don't know for sure. Yes, it also has narrow SCSI-2 built-in (though the boot PROM doesn't understand synch negotiation, so any device that you want to boot from must not start synchronous negotiation by itself). And yes, the FWSCSI bus (that's how HP labeled it) in this machine is high-voltage differential (the only differential scheme at the time; the LVD drives did not exist back then). I know; I have a micropolis 3243WD and two Seagate ST410800WD in mine. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Oct 16 11:19:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Anime (was: Sign of the times) References: <3DAC776D.32277.4F3A4C1@localhost> <3DACDE67.1020304@jetnet.ab.ca> <3DACE7F6.9040607@internet1.net> <3DACF06C.2050003@jetnet.ab.ca> <1407254671.20021016103207@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <001301c27530$0d374080$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Well, this *is* cctalk... :-) What would cctalk be without the occasional (OK, frequent) off-topic thread :-) > On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: >> Anime is a kid's product from the US point of view, where everywhere >> else it is respected prime time media ranging from general vewing to >> very XXX rated products with all sorts of storylines ranging from >> cute to horror and gore. > Ben is right. I was introduced to anime last year (though I had > watched Robotech as a kid), and I love it. There's everything from > kiddie stuff (e.g. Pokemon) to heady, intellectual stuff (e.g. > Evangelion) to stuff that can only be described as 'tentacle porn'. I don't even want to know what you mean by that. > I just watched the recent US release of 'The End of Evangelion'. It > and the 26-episode Evangelion TV series that precedes it are IMHO > currently the most entertaining thing one can play on a screen. I'll have to try and track that down. Later. > I agree, but it is also important to note that anime TV series > typically have one all-important quality that most US animated TV > series lack: continuity. US TV animation is episodic: crisis and > resolution occur within 30 minutes, and there is no plot beyond that. > Every episode starts in the same basic universe, and by the end of > the episode, nothing has changed. Many anime series, however, have an > overall plot, and each episode is just a tiny window into that. > Evangelion, for instance, is like a 13-hour movie. That's what I like (and hate) about anime - miss an episode and it's a total pain to work out the plotline from there. >> Cartoon network is not the place to watch Anime. > Where is? WinMX or KaZaA. Download, encode to suit your video editing card and then play it back on a bigscreen TV. Shame about all the bad TV->tape->Divx rips though. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Oct 16 11:20:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: OT: Anime (was: Sign of the times) References: <3DAC776D.32277.4F3A4C1@localhost> <3DACDE67.1020304@jetnet.ab.ca> <3DACE7F6.9040607@internet1.net> <3DACF06C.2050003@jetnet.ab.ca> <1407254671.20021016103207@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3DAD91D3.3080703@jetnet.ab.ca> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >>Cartoon network is not the place to watch Anime. > Where is? You could join a anime club, rent it or heaven forbid even buy them. Just read the labels carefully as the censorship ratings differ from country to country. The internet is the best way to find titles and reviews and places to buy them. Piratcy can be a problem so if a deal is too good to be true watch it. Just remember while many anime ran for a season or half a season some have ran alot longer than that. Note old computers will never be on anime, they just have the new high tech fantasy stuff. From marvin at rain.org Wed Oct 16 11:31:01 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Anime (was: Sign of the times) References: <3DAC776D.32277.4F3A4C1@localhost> <3DACDE67.1020304@jetnet.ab.ca> <3DACE7F6.9040607@internet1.net> <3DACF06C.2050003@jetnet.ab.ca> <1407254671.20021016103207@subatomix.com> <001301c27530$0d374080$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3DAD94C0.BE9AF052@rain.org> Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > Well, this *is* cctalk... :-) > What would cctalk be without the occasional (OK, frequent) off-topic thread > :-) Quieter :). From fernande at internet1.net Wed Oct 16 11:39:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Anime (was: Sign of the times) References: <3DAC776D.32277.4F3A4C1@localhost> <3DACDE67.1020304@jetnet.ab.ca> <3DACE7F6.9040607@internet1.net> <3DACF06C.2050003@jetnet.ab.ca> <1407254671.20021016103207@subatomix.com> <001301c27530$0d374080$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3DAD9632.5000506@internet1.net> Philip Pemberton wrote: > That's what I like (and hate) about anime - miss an episode and it's a total > pain to work out the plotline from there. I watch it on Cartoon Network sometimes, and I get very lost. A lot of it seems to go nowhere very slowly. The short episodes bug me too. I wish I could watch 2 or 3 episodes in a row, if I were to have my way. Usually I watch it on a Saturday night when I'm online and semi-bored, so it's okay, I guess :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Oct 16 11:41:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Anime (was: Sign of the times) In-Reply-To: <3DAD94C0.BE9AF052@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > Well, this *is* cctalk... :-) > > What would cctalk be without the occasional (OK, frequent) off-topic thread > > :-) > > Quieter :). 10,000 comedians out of work.... :) Doc From jwillis at arielusa.com Wed Oct 16 11:53:01 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: WANTED: DEC RRD40 or RRD42 CD-ROM Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2B8BC1@deathstar.arielnet.com> Wanted: DEC RRD40 or RRD42 CD-ROM Drive John P. Willis, MCP Software Engineer/Database Architect Ariel Technologies (505) 524-6860 jwillis@arielusa.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021016/1c92d8db/attachment.html From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Oct 16 11:59:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: OT: Anime (was: Sign of the times) References: <3DAC776D.32277.4F3A4C1@localhost> <3DACDE67.1020304@jetnet.ab.ca> <3DACE7F6.9040607@internet1.net> <3DACF06C.2050003@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200210161701.NAA65844648@shell.TheWorld.com> >I agree, but it is also important to note that anime TV series typically >have one all-important quality that most US animated TV series lack: >continuity. US TV animation is episodic: crisis and resolution occur >within 30 minutes, and there is no plot beyond that. Every episode starts >in the same basic universe, and by the end of the episode, nothing has >changed. Many anime series, however, have an overall plot, and each >episode is just a tiny window into that. Evangelion, for instance, is >like a 13-hour movie. US Animation isn't the only thing episodic... most of the shows are too, at least the SF ones. Star Trek (and many of the spinoffs) are like that. You can pretty much run them in any order. That is why Babylon 5 was so good. Each episode really did advance the overall story. >> Cartoon network is not the place to watch Anime. > >Where is? Cartoon Network 'adult swim' shows some of the anime which evolves over time. But I really dislike cartoon network because of what they do to some of the older US cartoons -- they snip them and edit them and add new PC dialog, or stuff that is just so mind-numbingly childish it isn't worth it. I saw one the other day in which all the characters voices sounded like 3-yr-olds babbling. It was worthless... I wish they would show the un-edited originals for things... Megan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 16 12:00:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: WANTED: DEC RRD40 or RRD42 CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2B8BC1@deathstar.arielnet. com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021016130507.0ebf0186@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> What are you offering for them? Joe At 10:54 AM 10/16/02 -0600, you wrote: >Wanted: DEC RRD40 or RRD42 CD-ROM Drive > > >John P. Willis, MCP >Software Engineer/Database Architect >Ariel Technologies >(505) 524-6860 >jwillis@arielusa.com > > > > > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\WANTEDDE.htm" > From cb at mythtech.net Wed Oct 16 12:11:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question Message-ID: >I found my firster, a Minivac601, starting where all I really remembered >was that it was small and that it had a spinning bit. My first was either an Apple II+, or an IBM 5110. Both of which I still have (I don't know if the II+ is the exact same unit as we had many of them and some have been tossed). My only issue is, which was it. When did the 5110 come out? I know the Apple II+ was bought by my brother in 1978 (I had always remembered 1977, but IIRC, the II Plus wasn't released until 78, and I'm sure it was a Plus, not a regular II). So if the 5110 was earlier than 78, I'd have to say it was the first computer I saw and used. -chris From fernande at internet1.net Wed Oct 16 12:12:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: OT: Anime (was: Sign of the times) References: <3DAC776D.32277.4F3A4C1@localhost> <3DACDE67.1020304@jetnet.ab.ca> <3DACE7F6.9040607@internet1.net> <3DACF06C.2050003@jetnet.ab.ca> <200210161701.NAA65844648@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3DAD9E4D.4020406@internet1.net> Megan wrote: > US Animation isn't the only thing episodic... most of the shows > are too, at least the SF ones. Star Trek (and many of the spinoffs) > are like that. You can pretty much run them in any order. DS9 was both episodic and progresive. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 16 12:14:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is there a reason why y'all don't contact the original poster of it? On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > > At 02:47 AM 16/10/2002 -0500, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > If you notice the car on the left of the image, it gives two clues that > > > show the location is in the US somewhere. The license plate, even though > > > you can't see all of it, is US sized. The steering wheel is also on the > > > left side of the car. Another noticeable item in the photo is the DSS dish > > > on the roof of the red brick building. > > > > I'm inclined to agree that this photo is from the US, but of course > > the majority of cars in Europe have the steering wheel on the left > > hand side of the car. If the UK is anything to go by, there are lots > > of satellite dishes there too... > > Revisting the first message about this to the mailing list, the original > message can be traced back to this post today in comp.sys.sgi.misc: > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3DAC895C.62302443%40hammerhead.com&oe=UTF-8 > > The original poster's IP address which happens to be for Pac*Bell ADSL. > So it's most likely California where that poster lives. The license > plate doesn't conflict with the style of current California plates. > The surrounding vegetation, especially the tree in the foreground, > matches that of SoCal. And the soft atmospheric haze you see in the > picture does actually match what we've been having here in Los Angeles > for the past couple of days. It's been bright and hazy due to the > marine layer from the morning through nearly noon time. Since the > original message was posted at 2:33pm PST, and he mentioned seeing this > earlier in the day, it doesn't contradict a hypothesis of it being local > to L.A. > > Also, http://www.hammerhead.com/, the website associated with the domain > of the original poster, is a small vfx company local to North Hollywood. > Since he said that the Onyx was located at an area service provider, > that will might narrow things down quite a bit. I'm assuming it's at an > SGI service provider. The main one is SGI of course, but there are some > others in town. > > -brian. From jwillis at arielusa.com Wed Oct 16 12:20:01 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: WANTED: DEC RRD40 or RRD42 CD-ROM Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2B8BC2@deathstar.arielnet.com> Looking to pay under $50 preferably, although I really have no idea what the market value is. I just need a drive that will be suitable For installing VMS on a MicroVAX 3100. -----Original Message----- From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:05 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: WANTED: DEC RRD40 or RRD42 CD-ROM What are you offering for them? Joe At 10:54 AM 10/16/02 -0600, you wrote: >Wanted: DEC RRD40 or RRD42 CD-ROM Drive > > >John P. Willis, MCP >Software Engineer/Database Architect >Ariel Technologies >(505) 524-6860 >jwillis@arielusa.com > > > > > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\WANTEDDE.htm" > From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Wed Oct 16 12:22:00 2002 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16D57@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> OK, I finally dug out my DEC systems & options catalogs, and found a couple of references to the rack-mount 6000 in the 1990 and 1991 catalogs. These were originally sold as two 19" rack-mountable enclosures, one containing the XMI cardcage, and the other containing a BI cardcage. Both enclosures appear very similar, with the main difference being that the XMI enclosure has a very small front panel on it. The BI enclosure seems to have a cutout on the front panel for a TK70 tape drive and _no_ front panel. The earlier catalogs treat the 2 cardcages as 1 complete system, while the later catalogs refer to the 19" rack BI enclosure as an "option". Not being greatly familiar with the 6000, am I correct in assuming that if you don't have the BI "option" you have not I/O capability whatsoever? (except for possibly ethernet? how about SCSI?) -al- > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Carlini [mailto:Antonio.Carlini@riverstonenet.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 5:21 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: New VAX 6000 toys. > > > > >The main difference with this box is that it's not as expandable as a > >full VAX 6000. The big ones have ample space within them for disk > >drives, tape drives, and BI bus card cages. I think the > full VAX 6000s > >come standard with one, maybe two BI bus card cages. > > My VAX 6000 is no longer here, so I have to go on memory. > Pretty much all > there is in a standard 6000 is a row of PSUs at the top, a > row with the > VAXBI and XMI busses and - right at the bottom - a > converter/coditioner > that takes the incoming power feed and presents it to the > rest of the box. > There is a large gap with plenty of air in it. About the only > thing you could > use it for was a late-breaking internal storage addon. Every 6000 I've > seen had external storage (mostly via CI, since that's what > big customers > were expected to do). > > Internally it cannot have been much wider that 19" so I would > guess that the > rack-mount version would be about the same but without the large wad > of air :-) > > >These rackmount boxes only have an XMI bus. I suppose it'd > be possible > >to hang BI busses off of this with an external box; that's > if you needed > > Is there no space for a VAXBI? My box had an XMI to the right and two > VAXBIs to the left (IIRC). > > >on comp.os.vms say that it's easy to boot this type of system over an > >ethernet based VAXcluster. Your disk I/O will be bottlenecked by the > >speed of the ethernet. I'm planning on running mine this > way initially. > > I've done this - it works well. Especially nice is botting from an > InfoServer for upgrades etc. > > Antonio > arcarlini@iee.org > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 16 12:23:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > What if the car was shipped over to Europe? Hey, it's possible! Or maybe only the computer was real, and EVERYTHING else was a computer generated backdrop (PARKING_LOT_W_DUMPSTER.IMAGE) Check the shadows very carefully! From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Oct 16 12:27:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:04 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Is there a reason why y'all don't contact the original poster of it? That wouldn't be nearly as much fun. Doc From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 16 13:42:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Atari Arcade Basketball board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, John Allain wrote: > > > available: Atari Arcade Basketball ('79) board. > > > > This board is about 11"x17" and has about 75 chips. There are a few > > empty sockets but they may have been for expansion. > > > > I've heard people on the list say that old tech chips are getting hard > > to find Available to the list or it gets tossed in one week. > > You should pitch this at the rec.videogame.retro (something like that) > newsgroups. Folks there will most likely pay you good money for it. I think rec.games.video.arcade.collecting and rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace would probably be the best places to list this item. Of course, there are also some video game collectors on the list here too. -Toth From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Oct 16 13:55:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16D57@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: > OK, I finally dug out my DEC systems & options catalogs, and found a > couple of references to the rack-mount 6000 in the 1990 and 1991 > catalogs. These were originally sold as two 19" rack-mountable > enclosures, one containing the XMI cardcage, and the other containing > a BI cardcage. Both enclosures appear very similar, with the main > difference being that the XMI enclosure has a very small front panel > on it. The BI enclosure seems to have a cutout on the front panel for > a TK70 tape drive and _no_ front panel. The earlier catalogs treat the > 2 cardcages as 1 complete system, while the later catalogs refer to > the 19" rack BI enclosure as an "option". > > Not being greatly familiar with the 6000, am I correct in assuming that > if you don't have the BI "option" you have not I/O capability whatsoever? > (except for possibly ethernet? how about SCSI?) I don't have the BI option, but DEC made plenty of I/O modules for XMI. They also offered an XMI bus SCSI module, but I've been told that it was only supported in DEC's OSes on the XMI based Alpha systems. Supported on the VAX were XMI DSSI and SDI modules for directly attached disk; I have one of each of these that I got for a full sized VAX 6420 that I acquired a while back. Other I/O options are obviously the FDDI network module which supports 100Mb/s data rates. Fortunately, I've got access to a FDDI concentrator so I can actually make use of this--at least between the two VAX 6000s. And then there's the CI (Cluster Interconnect or Computer Interconnect depending on the docs I find) module. I've not had any direct experience with it yet, though I've found docs which state 8.75MB/s per path with 17.5MB/s per port. A dual ported controller can support 35MB/s of bandwidth. I definitely would like to have the VAXBI option for this, but I couldn't even imagine where to begin to find one. If your catalog mentions the DEC part numbers for the main VAX 6000 and the VAXBI options, that would be useful to me. I'd also be very curious to know which CPU types the catalog mentioned being supported for the later (1991) rackmount VAX 6000 models. I can certainly live with 6000-400 series CPUs, but it'd be really nice to put some 6000-600 series procs in these if they support 3.3V power. Vrrrooooom! -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Oct 16 14:15:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. In-Reply-To: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034263@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > My VAX 6000 is no longer here, so I have to go on memory. Pretty much all > there is in a standard 6000 is a row of PSUs at the top, a row with the > VAXBI and XMI busses and - right at the bottom - a converter/coditioner > that takes the incoming power feed and presents it to the rest of the box. > There is a large gap with plenty of air in it. About the only thing you could > use it for was a late-breaking internal storage addon. Every 6000 I've > seen had external storage (mostly via CI, since that's what big customers > were expected to do). Gunther Schadow has a nice web page with extensive photos of VAX 6420s: http://aurora.rg.iupui.edu/~schadow/VAX/anatomy/ > Internally it cannot have been much wider that 19" so I would guess that the > rack-mount version would be about the same but without the large wad > of air :-) The physical config on these is /entirely/ different. Here are the pics from the eBay auctions: http://world.std.com/~bdc/pics/vax6000/ These systems are basically the PSU, fans, and the XMI. The small amount of space to the right of the XMI cage seems to be used as a storage area for the anti-static strap. It's a little too narrow for a BI bus card cage. -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Oct 16 14:22:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Is there a reason why y'all don't contact the original poster of it? There are multiple ways skin a cat--and it's often wise to run multiple efforts in parallel. So while waiting on the original poster to reply, we can also be attempting to track down the Onyx. -brian. From martin.kaeser at auge.de Wed Oct 16 15:56:00 2002 From: martin.kaeser at auge.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_K=E4ser?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: HP9100 Calculator Message-ID: Hi all, i bought a HP 9100 A calculator and need some advice. According to the owner, the power supply hummed and the backlighting came one - nothing on the screen, though. I think i should test the power supply and the tube first. Any suggestions on where i could test voltages and what i should get? How long would the screen take to light up? If the calculator is stuck in a loop, would there be a display at all? Would pulling the logic cards first be a good idea? Thanks for advice, Martin From red at bears.org Wed Oct 16 15:59:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Questions about a HP Apollo 735/125 In-Reply-To: <20021016144409.GC4769319@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Dan Wright wrote: > Definitly. I've looked for EISA cards for my 735's (I have 2), and > failed...they're not so easy to come by. Crescendo made an FDDI card for HP, that I have one of. It used to be in one of my 715s, but I recently moved it to the 735/99 I picked up not so long ago. I'm missing the software for it, though. > BTW, are you sure the wide bus is HVD? Yes. It's definitely HVD. Same as the later B160 and I'm sure many other HP 700-series with wide SCSI. > HPUX 10.x of any sort...I have 10.20 from June 2001 on my machines... I have 9.01 and 10.01 on my 735. ok r. From msspcva at yahoo.com Wed Oct 16 16:05:00 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: FS: Philips single speed SCSI-1 CDROM drives In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2B8BC2@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <20021016210630.34425.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> Hello everyone: I've got 5 single-speed Philips CDROMs, internal models, the model number is CM-215. I've used one of these before on my MV3100 20e under VMS, and it works OK; I think it did produce some SCSI errors so I kept it on the second bus. These are manufactured in 1993 so they're right at the 10 year rule. For an older system that supports SCSI-1, these may be handy. They use an internal tray for the CD. I should have a user's guide or some such for each one, and there's a jumper to set it to different sector sizes (required for VMS, for instance). If you'd like one I'd like $10 for each + shipping. Contact me directly if you're interested. -- Frank ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Wed Oct 16 16:11:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Selling old(er) computers in NJ Message-ID: I'm having a garage sale this weekend in Northern NJ. I will be selling off most all of my 486 and earlier systems. Now I know this isn't of too much interest to people here... BUT, I will also have available the 4 IBM System 23's that I have yet to unload (not do to lack of interest, but due to lack of my ability right now to ship). As well I will probably have some other odds and ends of older machines and equipment. (ATs, and similar, dot matrix printers, a few laser printers,... I have to see what all I have). I may also have some older Macs (all 68k, most 030 or lower), I have to see what I have that I don't currently have a use for, and can bear to part with (I might have enough Mac Pluses and SEs to unload a few, if I can bring myself to doing so). I'm not expecting to get much for the PCs (if anything, really I am putting them on the lawn to see what I get before they are stripped down and thrown out), but I would like to get something for things like the IBM System 23's. There will also be some older A/V equipment, but the only stuff probably of interest here would be some 3/4" Umatic VCRs, the rest is just older amps, tape decks, and TVs, nothing fancy. And of course some of your normal garage sale fodder (I'm bringing some junk over from my house as well). If anyone is in my area and wants to stop by, let me know, I'll give you directions. Its in Ridgewood on Franklin Turnpike on the front lawn of my office (as well as some inside, we have odds and ends of office equipment to unload, and I don't feel like dragging it all outside) -chris From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 16 16:21:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux Message-ID: Quite a while ago (and maybe more than once) we had a thread on reading/writing 'odd' disk formats. I thought about it again, typed a few words into google, and found this: http://fdutils.linux.lu/Fdutils.html#SEC22 It looks like setfdprm and superformat will do much of what's necessary in working with 'odd' format disks. I haven't played much with it yet, but I've verified it works for setting the density, heads, cyls, and sect/track of the disk to write to. However, it doesn't allow for setting an initial sector number - something that's necessary for some formats. Using the program "fdrawcmd" should overcome any obsticles, but will require more work to be useful. I just thought I'd pass this along in case people would find it useful. -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 16 17:22:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks It has some good information, some errors, and some good and bad guesses (such as saying that it is probably possible to read hard sectored disks with PC hardware) Are you trying to transfer files, or just read raw sectors? Which "odd formats" are you trying to read? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Quite a while ago (and maybe more than once) we had a thread on > reading/writing 'odd' disk formats. I thought about it again, typed a few > words into google, and found this: > > http://fdutils.linux.lu/Fdutils.html#SEC22 > > It looks like setfdprm and superformat will do much of what's necessary in > working with 'odd' format disks. I haven't played much with it yet, but > I've verified it works for setting the density, heads, cyls, and > sect/track of the disk to write to. However, it doesn't allow for > setting an initial sector number - something that's necessary for some > formats. Using the program "fdrawcmd" should overcome any obsticles, but > will require more work to be useful. > > I just thought I'd pass this along in case people would find it useful. > > -- > "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is > completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" > -- Anonymous > http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Oct 16 17:53:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: RK05 Bad Blocks Message-ID: <3DADEE15.DFC7C6C4@compsys.to> I need some help in reading some RK05 packs. I have 17 RK05 packs and I have been able to read 14 without a problem. Two others have 14 and 5 bad blocks, respectively. The last has 1231 bad blocks. Is there any reasonably easy and simple way to recover the bad blocks. These are all RT-11 distributions prior to V5.03 of RT-11. In particular, the one with 5 bad blocks is a copy of another pack, so I was able to verify that the other 4797 blocks were the same. One down! The ones with 14 blocks and 1231 blocks are for V3.0B of RT-11, but they do seem to be a bit different. The 14 bad blocks are all in 5 OBJ files (for FORTRAN IV) an I may be able to find a copy elsewhere. The 1231 bad blocks seem almost hopeless unless I can find the same distribution and verify that the rest are OK. Obviously there is no point in spending any money since eventually someone will find a set of files for V3.0B of RT-11. Any ideas. I have tried to read each bad block a number of times - one at a time, but no success. I only have until Friday when I will be giving the RK05 drive and the borrowed RKV11D controller to Ethan Dicks. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 16 18:11:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Thanks > It has some good information, some errors, and some good and bad guesses > (such as saying that it is probably possible to read hard sectored disks > with PC hardware) If you're refering to 'fixed format devices', they seem to be referring to OS device nodes - such as "/dev/fd0h360", not physical (hard-sectored) devices/disks. > Are you trying to transfer files, or just read raw sectors? For now, I just want to be able to copy disks without having to resort to using teledisk on a machine running DOS. > Which "odd formats" are you trying to read? I was making a generalization... I've been able to successfully read RX-50's created with teledisk using this method: root@dualie:~# setfdprm /dev/fd1 qd sect=10 cyl=80 head=1 root@dualie:~# dd if=/dev/fd1 of=myfd.img 800+0 records in 800+0 records out root@dualie:~# I've also been successful with an Osborne Executive disk written with teledisk: root@dualie:~# setfdprm /dev/fd1 dd sect=5 cyl=40 head=1 ssize=1024 root@dualie:~# dd if=/dev/fd1 of=myfd.img bs=1k 200+0 records in 200+0 records out root@dualie:~# To me, it looks like the hardest part will be attempting to determine what format the disk is in, automatically. Any ideas? My best guess is to do a guess-and-check method, of course this would be tough to verify every possibility, such as varied sector sizes (although it would be possible). I'm guessing that I'll have to use a raw floppy ioctl to make that work. One last thing, I found a reference to a program that could decode teledisk 'normal' compression images in past postings to classiccmp, but it's gone away and I didn't grab a copy before it did. Anyone know where I could find it? Here's the original URL: http://www.conknet.com/~w_kranz/WTELEDSK.HTM Pat > -- > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > > > > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > Quite a while ago (and maybe more than once) we had a thread on > > reading/writing 'odd' disk formats. I thought about it again, typed a few > > words into google, and found this: > > > > http://fdutils.linux.lu/Fdutils.html#SEC22 > > > > It looks like setfdprm and superformat will do much of what's necessary in > > working with 'odd' format disks. I haven't played much with it yet, but > > I've verified it works for setting the density, heads, cyls, and > > sect/track of the disk to write to. However, it doesn't allow for > > setting an initial sector number - something that's necessary for some > > formats. Using the program "fdrawcmd" should overcome any obsticles, but > > will require more work to be useful. > > > > I just thought I'd pass this along in case people would find it useful. -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From ss at allegro.com Wed Oct 16 18:22:33 2002 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Avail: Bull Gamma 115 (1968); IBM 3803; IBM 4361-6; IBM 3705-80 .. in Hungary In-Reply-To: <000001c271f2$90886f40$3201a8c0@flame> Message-ID: <3DAD9285.25086.653B1E@localhost> Hi, I received the following...if anyone is interested, contact the seller (totbela@hotmail.com). I do not know Bela. Please let the list know what happens, however :) -------------------------------------------------------------------- My name is Bela Toth from hungary. I have a few old big supercomputer, and i want to sell that. This computers in made 1964-1968. My supercomputer-collection which i want to sell: -BULL GAMMA 115 (1968') Include: cpu, 8 ligamental unit, 2 printer. -IBM 3803 Include: cpu, 8 ligamental unit, 9 harddisk unit, work-description -IBM 4361-5 Include: 2 harddisk unit -IBM 3705-80 Include: control unit THIS SUPERCOMPUTERS IS WORKING!!! If you interested in, the big, old supercomputers, please send me an email! totbela@hotmail.com Best Regards, Bela Toth Hungary From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 16 18:45:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux Message-ID: <200210162346.QAA24219@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Patrick I think you might try looking at: http://www.moria.de/~michael/cpmtools/ This stuff is specific to doing cpm stuff but the basics are there. One should be able to modify this quickly to deal with any format that the hardware supports. I've not looked at it closely but suspect it has what you need. Dwight >From: "Patrick Finnegan" > >On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >> Thanks >> It has some good information, some errors, and some good and bad guesses >> (such as saying that it is probably possible to read hard sectored disks >> with PC hardware) > >If you're refering to 'fixed format devices', they seem to be referring to >OS device nodes - such as "/dev/fd0h360", not physical (hard-sectored) >devices/disks. > >> Are you trying to transfer files, or just read raw sectors? > >For now, I just want to be able to copy disks without having to resort to >using teledisk on a machine running DOS. > >> Which "odd formats" are you trying to read? > >I was making a generalization... I've been able to successfully read >RX-50's created with teledisk using this method: > >root@dualie:~# setfdprm /dev/fd1 qd sect=10 cyl=80 head=1 >root@dualie:~# dd if=/dev/fd1 of=myfd.img >800+0 records in >800+0 records out >root@dualie:~# > >I've also been successful with an Osborne Executive disk written with >teledisk: > >root@dualie:~# setfdprm /dev/fd1 dd sect=5 cyl=40 head=1 ssize=1024 >root@dualie:~# dd if=/dev/fd1 of=myfd.img bs=1k >200+0 records in >200+0 records out >root@dualie:~# > >To me, it looks like the hardest part will be attempting to determine what >format the disk is in, automatically. Any ideas? My best guess is to do >a guess-and-check method, of course this would be tough to verify every >possibility, such as varied sector sizes (although it would be possible). >I'm guessing that I'll have to use a raw floppy ioctl to make that work. > >One last thing, I found a reference to a program that could decode >teledisk 'normal' compression images in past postings to classiccmp, but >it's gone away and I didn't grab a copy before it did. Anyone know where >I could find it? Here's the original URL: > >http://www.conknet.com/~w_kranz/WTELEDSK.HTM > >Pat > >> -- >> Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com >> XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >> >> >> >> On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: >> >> > Quite a while ago (and maybe more than once) we had a thread on >> > reading/writing 'odd' disk formats. I thought about it again, typed a few >> > words into google, and found this: >> > >> > http://fdutils.linux.lu/Fdutils.html#SEC22 >> > >> > It looks like setfdprm and superformat will do much of what's necessary in >> > working with 'odd' format disks. I haven't played much with it yet, but >> > I've verified it works for setting the density, heads, cyls, and >> > sect/track of the disk to write to. However, it doesn't allow for >> > setting an initial sector number - something that's necessary for some >> > formats. Using the program "fdrawcmd" should overcome any obsticles, but >> > will require more work to be useful. >> > >> > I just thought I'd pass this along in case people would find it useful. > >-- >"This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is > completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" > -- Anonymous >http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > > > From donm at cts.com Wed Oct 16 18:49:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Osbourne 1 problems In-Reply-To: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AEF7@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > >Oh, also, does anyone have the schematics for the composite adapter, or > >someplace where I can find one? I have heard rumors of an electronics > >store on the 'net that still carries them. > > The Tech Ref has schematics for lost of Osborne stuff (including data > sheets for the PSU and the Motorola (?) data sheet for the monitor). > I don't recall whether that adapter is in there ... > > I have the tech ref scanned - I can ftp it to you if you have 67MB or > so free. Antonio, I would appreciate receiving that if no one is able/interested in hosting it. I get a number of private inquiries about the Ozzie. - don > Or if someone is willing to host it, that would be even better (the > user guide is only an additional 127MB ...) > > Antonio > arcarlini@iee.org > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 16 18:51:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux Message-ID: <200210162352.QAA24224@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > >Thanks >It has some good information, some errors, and some good and bad guesses >(such as saying that it is probably possible to read hard sectored disks >with PC hardware) Hi Fred Maybe he meant that if the computer he had, has an accessible DSP processor ( as some modem and sound cards have ). With this, one could use the controller to deal with track stepping and use the DSP to do the actual data reads. Of course, one needs to do some hard wiring to patch things together. ( Well, maybe he didn't mean that after all. ) Dwight From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 16 19:00:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > It has some good information, some errors, and some good and bad guesses > > (such as saying that it is probably possible to read hard sectored disks > > with PC hardware) On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > If you're refering to 'fixed format devices', they seem to be referring to > OS device nodes - such as "/dev/fd0h360", not physical (hard-sectored) > devices/disks. NO. For example, In "Interesting Formats", (as quoted in the next paragraph) they seem to be implying that the original PC diskettes are FM (not MFM), which is FALSE. Then they list "CP/M, Apple II, TRS-80, etc." Then they explicitly mention hard sectored, with the wrong guess that they would be readable on standard FDCs. Then they say that the 160K/180K formats were double sided; which is WRONG. > 80/90/160/180 KB 5.25" > Original IBM PC, CP/M, Apple II, TRS-80, etc. Single density, FM (not > MFM), 40-track. Some systems also used "hard" sectoring, with an index > hole for each sector. These are probably readable on standard FDCs if > anyone cares to go to the effort. 160KB/180KB formats were double-sided. There are numerous such errors on that page, although overall the content is good. > To me, it looks like the hardest part will be attempting to determine what > format the disk is in, automatically. Any ideas? My best guess is to do > a guess-and-check method, of course this would be tough to verify every > possibility, such as varied sector sizes (although it would be possible). > I'm guessing that I'll have to use a raw floppy ioctl to make that work. Fully automatic determination is NOT possible. But you CAN eliminate most other possibilities, and reduce it to something that can probably handle all of the different formats that you have. SOME parameters, such as sector sequence (aka interleave) are trivial to determine manually, but hell to do automatically. Likewise, but actually a little easier, "which track has the DIRectory?" In XenoCopy, I put in a partially documented "feature" that would look at a disk, and then gray-out formats from the menu (of 400 machines) that had different physical characteristics. If you are willing to program the FDC directly, you can try to read the sector headers. If you are NOT willing to go down to that level, then: 1) try to read, oh say, 512 byte sector #1 Track #4, from track 4, side A, if you get an error code 2 ("Address mark not found") from the BIOS, then you have the wrong density, or recording method If you get error code 4 ("sector not found"), then you have the right density, but wrong sector size, wrong track density, or weird numbering (not that uncommon) If you can read sector #1 Track #8 from track 4, then you are trying to read a 96TPI disk in a 48TPI drive or mode Try 256 and 1024 bytes per sector. (128 has some bizarre problems of its own) Once you finally get a sector to read, increm,ent the numbers to find how many sectors per track. 2) Once you know the bytes per sector, and sectors per track, then try reading from side B. Since side A and side B are normally the same density (except on track 0 and occasionally a few more), an error code of 2 would mean that the disk is single sided. some formats, such as Kaypro DS use an incorrect value in the side number field of the sector headers on the second side. It isn't that hard to program around, but watch out for it. 3) confirm the maximum track (usually 40 and 80, but sometimes 35 and 77! 4) once you have determined the physical format, you can duplicate disks, but not retrieve data from them in a reliable way until you determine the logical parameters: a) side pattern: some formats go up one side and then up the second side (common when expanding a SS format to DS). some go up the first side and then DOWN the second side (performance improvement in "expanded formats") Some (including MS-DOS) use both heads of a cylinder before incrementing the cylinder b) DIRectory location: MS-DOS (with a few great exceptions) puts the DIR on track 0; CP/M puts it a few tracks in (after reserved tracks (which MAY be a different format!!); some formats, such as "stand-alone BASIC" (Coco, etc.) try to put it half way (track 17, 20, etc.) c) DIR structure (what OS?) d) DIR parameters (how many blocks for the DIR, block size, number of bytes used to represent a block number (such as if the number of blocks is > 255) e) sector interleave (what sequence are the sectors in? BUT, ... whatever you do, somebody can screw it up! For example, some formats use 8 sectors per track, but FORMAT 9! Sometimes somebody takes a previously used DS disk, and reformats, and uses a SS format on it. The extraneous stuff on side B can completely confuse an automatic selection algorithm. I estimate that there are about 2500 mutually incompatible floppy disk formats. I've analyzed about a quarter of them, and implemented about 2/3 of those. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Wed Oct 16 19:06:01 2002 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Osbourne 1 problems In-Reply-To: References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AEF7@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017010600.0246aec8@slave> At 00:51 17/10/2002, you wrote: >On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > > >Oh, also, does anyone have the schematics for the composite adapter, or > > >someplace where I can find one? I have heard rumors of an electronics > > >store on the 'net that still carries them. > > > > The Tech Ref has schematics for lost of Osborne stuff (including data > > sheets for the PSU and the Motorola (?) data sheet for the monitor). > > I don't recall whether that adapter is in there ... > > > > I have the tech ref scanned - I can ftp it to you if you have 67MB or > > so free. > >Antonio, I would appreciate receiving that if no one is able/interested >in hosting it. I get a number of private inquiries about the Ozzie. I can host it, if you like. I'd put it on the (sadly, totally unused ATM) www.classic-micros.com page. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Oct 16 19:10:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( References: Message-ID: <00b701c27571$d9d3dd10$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Sign of the times :( > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Is there a reason why y'all don't contact the original poster of it? > > There are multiple ways skin a cat--and it's often wise to run multiple > efforts in parallel. So while waiting on the original poster to reply, > we can also be attempting to track down the Onyx. I don't know who you mean by original poster, but I forwarded this from comp.sgi.whatever last night. The *original* original poster seemed reluctant to nail himself down any closer than what was mentioned in his spamnetnews post, and as I didn't ask his permission before forwarding it, I tried to respect his apparent wish for anonymity while reaching an audience with a better chance of rescue than J. Random Usenet-reader. In any case, I do hope someone in the Hollywood area manages to track it down and rescue it, even if it isn't me. It'd be a crime to let this go to the scrapper! > > -brian. > Bob From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 16 19:11:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux In-Reply-To: <200210162352.QAA24224@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > >It has some good information, some errors, and some good and bad guesses > >(such as saying that it is probably possible to read hard sectored disks > >with PC hardware) On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Maybe he meant that if the computer he had, has an accessible > DSP processor ( as some modem and sound cards have ). With > this, one could use the controller to deal with track stepping > and use the DSP to do the actual data reads. Of course, > one needs to do some hard wiring to patch things together. > > ( Well, maybe he didn't mean that after all. ) If so, that would have to be a definition of "on standard FDCs" that I was not previously aware of. He DID properly state that reading Macintosh 400K/800K needed hardware assistance, but incorrectly blamed it on the drive (its a disk CONTROLLER issue), From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 16 19:16:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux Message-ID: <200210170017.RAA24234@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > > ---snip--- Great Stuff!! > >I estimate that there are about 2500 mutually incompatible floppy disk >formats. I've analyzed about a quarter of them, and implemented about 2/3 >of those. This doesn't include all of the copy protection stuff that has been done. Dwight > > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Oct 16 19:17:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( References: Message-ID: <00e801c27572$d5f6fb90$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Sign of the times :( > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Is there a reason why y'all don't contact the original poster of it? > > There are multiple ways skin a cat--and it's often wise to run multiple > efforts in parallel. So while waiting on the original poster to reply, > we can also be attempting to track down the Onyx. I don't know who you mean by original poster, but I forwarded this from comp.sgi.whatever last night. The *original* original poster seemed reluctant to nail himself down any closer than what was mentioned in his spamnetnews post, and as I didn't ask his permission before forwarding it, I tried to respect his apparent wish for anonymity while reaching an audience with a better chance of rescue than J. Random Usenet-reader. In any case, I do hope someone in the Hollywood area manages to track it down and rescue it, even if it isn't me. It'd be a crime to let this go to the scrapper! > > -brian. > Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Oct 16 19:18:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( References: Message-ID: <00e901c27572$d9c875f0$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Sign of the times :( > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Is there a reason why y'all don't contact the original poster of it? > > There are multiple ways skin a cat--and it's often wise to run multiple > efforts in parallel. So while waiting on the original poster to reply, > we can also be attempting to track down the Onyx. I don't know who you mean by original poster, but I forwarded this from comp.sgi.whatever last night. The *original* original poster seemed reluctant to nail himself down any closer than what was mentioned in his spamnetnews post, and as I didn't ask his permission before forwarding it, I tried to respect his apparent wish for anonymity while reaching an audience with a better chance of rescue than J. Random Usenet-reader. In any case, I do hope someone in the Hollywood area manages to track it down and rescue it, even if it isn't me. It'd be a crime to let this go to the scrapper! > > -brian. > Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Oct 16 19:18:24 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( References: Message-ID: <00ed01c27572$e4641140$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Sign of the times :( > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Is there a reason why y'all don't contact the original poster of it? > > There are multiple ways skin a cat--and it's often wise to run multiple > efforts in parallel. So while waiting on the original poster to reply, > we can also be attempting to track down the Onyx. I don't know who you mean by original poster, but I forwarded this from comp.sgi.whatever last night. The *original* original poster seemed reluctant to nail himself down any closer than what was mentioned in his spamnetnews post, and as I didn't ask his permission before forwarding it, I tried to respect his apparent wish for anonymity while reaching an audience with a better chance of rescue than J. Random Usenet-reader. In any case, I do hope someone in the Hollywood area manages to track it down and rescue it, even if it isn't me. It'd be a crime to let this go to the scrapper! > > -brian. > Bob From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 16 19:42:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux Message-ID: <200210170043.RAA24241@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > >> >It has some good information, some errors, and some good and bad guesses >> >(such as saying that it is probably possible to read hard sectored disks >> >with PC hardware) > >On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> Maybe he meant that if the computer he had, has an accessible >> DSP processor ( as some modem and sound cards have ). With >> this, one could use the controller to deal with track stepping >> and use the DSP to do the actual data reads. Of course, >> one needs to do some hard wiring to patch things together. >> >> ( Well, maybe he didn't mean that after all. ) > >If so, that would have to be a definition of "on standard FDCs" that I was >not previously aware of. Ok, I was stretching a little to give him the 'benefit of the doubt'. Dwight > >He DID properly state that reading Macintosh 400K/800K needed hardware >assistance, but incorrectly blamed it on the drive (its a disk CONTROLLER >issue), > > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Oct 16 19:47:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( References: <00e901c27572$d9c875f0$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: <011601c27576$fd9c12d0$7800a8c0@george> Lets go for five now... Sorry. Bob From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 16 20:02:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > It has some good information, some errors, and some good and bad guesses > > > (such as saying that it is probably possible to read hard sectored disks > > > with PC hardware) > > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > If you're refering to 'fixed format devices', they seem to be referring to > > OS device nodes - such as "/dev/fd0h360", not physical (hard-sectored) > > devices/disks. > > NO. For example, > In "Interesting Formats", (as quoted in the next paragraph) they seem to > be implying that the original PC diskettes are FM (not MFM), which is > FALSE. > Then they list "CP/M, Apple II, TRS-80, etc." > Then they explicitly mention hard sectored, with the wrong guess that they > would be readable on standard FDCs. > Then they say that the 160K/180K formats were double sided; which is > WRONG. Ahh, I must have skipped over that part of it. You and I know that they're wrong, that's good enough, right? Maybe if I get some free time I'll submit a list of problems to the creator of that doc. > There are numerous such errors on that page, although overall the content > is good. I was only paying attention to the parts that showed how to use the commands, I wasn't really paying attention to it in that much detail, I guess. > > To me, it looks like the hardest part will be attempting to determine what > > format the disk is in, automatically. Any ideas? My best guess is to do > > a guess-and-check method, of course this would be tough to verify every > > possibility, such as varied sector sizes (although it would be possible). > > I'm guessing that I'll have to use a raw floppy ioctl to make that work. > > Fully automatic determination is NOT possible. But you CAN eliminate most > other possibilities, and reduce it to something that can probably handle > all of the different formats that you have. SOME parameters, such as Granted. I was just speaking of the type of 'automatic determination' that Teledisk does - my primary goal would be to create a replacement for Teledisk that runs on linux (and *BSD, eventually). > sector sequence (aka interleave) are trivial to determine manually, but > hell to do automatically. Likewise, but actually a little easier, "which > track has the DIRectory?" I'm not trying to make a miracle data-transfer agent like XenoCopy (I mean that as a complement), just something to let me make images to transfer over a network or store as files on a hard drive somewhere. > If you are willing to program the FDC directly, you can try to read the > sector headers. > If you are NOT willing to go down to that level, then: > 1) try to read, oh say, 512 byte sector #1 Track #4, from track 4, side A, > 2) Once you know the bytes per sector, and sectors per track, then try > reading from side B. Since side A and side B are normally the same > 3) confirm the maximum track (usually 40 and 80, but sometimes 35 and 77! > 4) once you have determined the physical format, you can duplicate disks, > but not retrieve data from them in a reliable way until you determine the > logical parameters: That's similar to what I was thinking about, but probably a better way of doing it (I'm lacking a few years of experience.....). As I said earlier, I don't want to even think about writing a data conversion program right now.. > BUT, ... > whatever you do, somebody can screw it up! For example, some formats use > 8 sectors per track, but FORMAT 9! > Sometimes somebody takes a previously used DS disk, and reformats, and > uses a SS format on it. The extraneous stuff on side B can completely > confuse an automatic selection algorithm. I think I'm the somebody that you're talking about. If I had a bulk eraser lying around, that'd probably be helpful. > I estimate that there are about 2500 mutually incompatible floppy disk > formats. I've analyzed about a quarter of them, and implemented about 2/3 > of those. Thanks for the help, I'm thinking I'll try to just play around with a manual selection of disk format (chose from a list or enter the parameters manually) for now. I'd just like to get something to play with first. And of course, it'd be nice to have something that'll convert/read teledisk format files, so I don't have any reason to worry about having to use this DOS box sitting next to be to write out disks anymore. Pat -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From curt at atari-history.com Wed Oct 16 20:09:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Atari Arcade Basketball board References: Message-ID: <003301c27579$cec7fa20$0b00a8c0@cvendel> A better venue would be on Yahoo Groups, the BWarcade group which specifically deals in the older Black & White arcade games, I used to own an Atari Basketball, it was very fun game to play. It translated very well on the Atari 800 platform into color. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 2:43 PM Subject: Re: Atari Arcade Basketball board > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, John Allain wrote: > > > > > available: Atari Arcade Basketball ('79) board. > > > > > > This board is about 11"x17" and has about 75 chips. There are a few > > > empty sockets but they may have been for expansion. > > > > > > I've heard people on the list say that old tech chips are getting hard > > > to find Available to the list or it gets tossed in one week. > > > > You should pitch this at the rec.videogame.retro (something like that) > > newsgroups. Folks there will most likely pay you good money for it. > > I think rec.games.video.arcade.collecting and > rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace would probably be the best places to > list this item. Of course, there are also some video game collectors on > the list here too. > > -Toth > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 16 20:38:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > There are numerous such errors on that page, although overall the content > > is good. On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I was only paying attention to the parts that showed how to use the > commands, I wasn't really paying attention to it in that much detail, I > guess. And, of course, the part that I paid most attention to was the discussion of floppy disk formats. > I'm not trying to make a miracle data-transfer agent like XenoCopy (I mean > that as a complement), just something to let me make images to transfer > over a network or store as files on a hard drive somewhere. If you're not trying to make sense of files, etc., then only the physical parameters matter. I would read the sector headers, which would give you all that you need. But you CAN check whether a format has the parameters that you expect with just a series of sector reads. > I think I'm the somebody that you're talking about. If I had a bulk > eraser lying around, that'd probably be helpful. It would certainly help prevent left over extraneous formatting from confusing the "recognizer". For example, some HP 3.5" formats use 77 tracks. If you take an old used PC 720K and reformat it with the HP, it won't erase the extraneous stuff on the top 3 tracks, thus fooling the recognizer into thinking that it's looking at an 80 track format. > Thanks for the help, I'm thinking I'll try to just play around with a > manual selection of disk format (chose from a list or enter the parameters > manually) for now. I'd just like to get something to play with first. > And of course, it'd be nice to have something that'll convert/read > teledisk format files, so I don't have any reason to worry about having to > use this DOS box sitting next to be to write out disks anymore. What I did in early XenoCopy was to have a list of format names, that loaded their parameters. Undocumented format #0 took you to a series of prompts to input the values. My publisher insisted on opening that for public use, which resulted in an unacceptable amount of support ("What parameters do I put in to do hard sectored and Apple disks?") Good luck, -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 16 21:22:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Tools for analyzing MFM diskettes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Writing your own tools is the only way that you can get something that will do evcerything that you want, and do it the way that you want it. (Sorry, XenoXap is NOT available outside of my office) But, if you don't want top write your own tools: For determining physical format/sector headers: TE program with Central Point Option Board Trakcess on TRS-80 model 3 (needs a few mods for side,etc.) For looking at physical sector contents: MS-DOS disks: DEBUG Norton fUtilities NON-MS-DOS with 512 bytes per sector: Morgan Computing Disk Toolkit NON-MS-DOS with 256 bytes per sector: Superzap (NewDos-80 on TRS-80 Model 3) Others: TE program with Central Point Option Board Trakcess on TRS-80 model 3 What else is available? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 16 21:32:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: PERQ available in the UK Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 402 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021016/b0780102/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 16 21:33:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: HP ThinkJet 2225P In-Reply-To: <3DAD76AE.9A54E130@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Oct 16, 2 03:24:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 917 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021016/72fa2af9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 16 21:33:20 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: HP9100 Calculator In-Reply-To: from "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_K=E4ser?=" at Oct 16, 2 10:57:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3194 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021016/ac125994/attachment.ksh From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Oct 16 21:36:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Tools for analyzing MFM diskettes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "(Sorry, XenoXap is NOT available outside of my office)" Why not? --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 22:24 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Tools for analyzing MFM diskettes Writing your own tools is the only way that you can get something that will do evcerything that you want, and do it the way that you want it. (Sorry, XenoXap is NOT available outside of my office) But, if you don't want top write your own tools: For determining physical format/sector headers: TE program with Central Point Option Board Trakcess on TRS-80 model 3 (needs a few mods for side,etc.) For looking at physical sector contents: MS-DOS disks: DEBUG Norton fUtilities NON-MS-DOS with 512 bytes per sector: Morgan Computing Disk Toolkit NON-MS-DOS with 256 bytes per sector: Superzap (NewDos-80 on TRS-80 Model 3) Others: TE program with Central Point Option Board Trakcess on TRS-80 model 3 What else is available? From marvin at rain.org Wed Oct 16 21:42:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: TRS-80 CLOAD Magazines References: Message-ID: <3DAE23F8.48B013FD@rain.org> In checking through past ebay listings, I found a site, http://www.trs-80.com/, that has a number of issues of CLOAD magazine available for downloading (Level 1/Software/"C" disks). From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Oct 16 21:43:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Avail: Bull Gamma 115 (1968); IBM 3803; IBM 4361-6; IBM 3705-80 .. in Hungary In-Reply-To: <3DAD9285.25086.653B1E@localhost> Message-ID: > I received the following...if anyone is interested, contact > the seller (totbela@hotmail.com). I do not know Bela. > > Please let the list know what happens, however :) I received this as well. Now I would probably drive across the country for a 3705 or the Bull, but Hungary is just too far... 3803, by the way, is a tape controller. I would drive to Indiana for one of those. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 16 21:57:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Tools for analyzing MFM diskettes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > "(Sorry, XenoXap is NOT available outside of my office)" > Why not? Treacherous unfinished user interface using our own non-standard terminology mostly. We never got around to making a public version of it, and our in-house one is likely to cause some damage if used by anybody not familiar with the way we were doing things. (things like using "INIT" to mean "to format") If I released it, I'd have to take responsibility for it (and FINISH IT!) Some parts (like "WORM") need major further work - to determine sector sequence/interleave, we tried to have it find every sector that ended in an ASCII letter, and every sector on the same cylinder and adjacent cylinder that starts with an ASCII letter, then see which combinations created words on a list (English and .ASM), to help find which were the most probable sequences, followed by manual checking. ("What's worse tha finding a worm in an Apple? Finding HALF a worm.") If I can find the source code, then I'd release THAT. (it's in one of the totes from clearing out my office) And SOMEDAY, ... maybe I can get around to putting an acceptable user interface on Xap. From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Oct 16 22:03:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: OT: HP 1707B info needed (was: Vintage Scopes) In-Reply-To: <3DAA41D6.C551C300@pacbell.net> References: <3DAA41D6.C551C300@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20021017032742.GE61520@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Speaking of oscilloscopes, does anyone happen to have a Tektronix 1707B (purchased for US$5 about 17 years ago!) that they can check for some wiring connections? Several years ago, I removed my 1707B's HV PSU which had a bad HV transformer, and in doing so, had to disconnect several wires connecting this circuit board to the rest of the 'scope. While I did take notes about which wires went where, I've misplaced them... however, I did, to my great surprise, finally obtain one of these circuit boards, thanks (immense thanks!) to someone on this list posting information some time ago about Sphere Research, which sells test equipment and parts. What I need is information about which wires connect where; can anyone kindly help me with this? Also, while looking for the aforementioned info., I located microfiche for a 1707A service manual (but have no microfiche reader yet), and also found a stack of microfiche, a couple of inches thick, pertaining to older Data General computers. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 16 22:30:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Anyone have a spare PSU for a DEC Highnote Ultra II laptop? In-Reply-To: <3DAD9632.5000506@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20021017033215.8322.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Some time ago, I got a DEC Highnote Ultra II laptop missing the PSU and IDE bay. I was attempting to fire it up tonight with an alternate PSU and "fire" was the operative word. It seems that there is an internal PSU slightly larger than a standard 9V battery... inside this mini-PSU (a DC-DC converter, really) were/are some 100uF *10V* SMT caps. (if that's what the 100-10 marking means). These are 1mm x 2mm, gray with a white band on one end and the legend on the PCB says C1, C2, etc., not D1, D2, etc. Well... they must have been counting on the tolerance of the caps being +/- 10% and the PSU not being *over* 11VDC (It's marked "11VDC @ 2.7A"). I thought that 12VDC would be safe. It was not. I'm guessing that my "12VDC" was slightly higher than that due to the light load that the laptop placed on it. So... one exploded SMT cap later (now replaced), I'm in search of a "real" PSU. It has a connector I'm used to seeing on Dell laptops, kind of a five-sided shape with three pins. The pin in the peak seems to be the ground, the two pins in the base corners seem to be the positive supply. This sound familiar to anyone? Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Oct 16 22:34:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Tools for analyzing MFM diskettes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Frankly, it sounds like a prime candidate for GPL'ing. Create a sourceforge project, check in the code base, and I'm sure you'll get volunteers to work on it, as they discover they need something like that. That sure would be better that some seriously potential useful code fading into obscurity. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 22:59 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Tools for analyzing MFM diskettes On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > "(Sorry, XenoXap is NOT available outside of my office)" > Why not? Treacherous unfinished user interface using our own non-standard terminology mostly. We never got around to making a public version of it, and our in-house one is likely to cause some damage if used by anybody not familiar with the way we were doing things. (things like using "INIT" to mean "to format") If I released it, I'd have to take responsibility for it (and FINISH IT!) Some parts (like "WORM") need major further work - to determine sector sequence/interleave, we tried to have it find every sector that ended in an ASCII letter, and every sector on the same cylinder and adjacent cylinder that starts with an ASCII letter, then see which combinations created words on a list (English and .ASM), to help find which were the most probable sequences, followed by manual checking. ("What's worse tha finding a worm in an Apple? Finding HALF a worm.") If I can find the source code, then I'd release THAT. (it's in one of the totes from clearing out my office) And SOMEDAY, ... maybe I can get around to putting an acceptable user interface on Xap. From gil at vauxelectronics.com Wed Oct 16 22:48:16 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: HP 9915 keyboard (PN 98155) Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021016205034.0099e400@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi Joe: Thanks for peeking in your keyboard again -- it seems you may have the only one out there. gil At 07:01 PM 10/14/02, you wrote: > I opened up my keyboard and traced out the circuits again today. I HOPE this is right, I haven't double checked it. Everything in caps is as it appears on the keyboard. Names that are too long are abbreviated and shown in lower case. A list of the abbreviations and their meanings is also shown below. > > >pin 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 >2 nu kl K1 K2 K3 K4 ^ da >3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >4 Q W E R T Y U I >5 A S D F G H J K >6 sb Z X C V B N M >13 nu nu -l da -CHAR REP -> <- >12 nu RESET bs nu = - 0 9 >11 nu nu nu sca ) ( P O >10 nu nu nu nu el ' ; L >9 nu nu nu RUN PAUSE ? > < > > > >Abbreviations: >nu = not used >da = down arrow (up and down arrow are used to recall previous commands and for editing)(I just noticed that I have this listed twice so there's probably an error there somewhere). >k1 = Key Label >el = End Line (this is what HP uses for carriage return/Enter) >sb = space bar >bs = Back Space >-l = -Line (erases the entire line) >sca = Scratch (erases all memory, just variables, etc depoending on what argument you give it) > >Notes: The K keys are programable function keys. K5 through K8 are K1 through K4 shifted. You can assign programs or functions to these keys and use the Control input lines to trigger the program or function. >The -Char key erases one character at a time. >the REP key toggles between the insert and replace modes. > > There are a few more keys that don't fit into a matrix. Here's a list of them and the two pins that they connect to: > > Both SHIFT keys are tied together in parallel and connct to pins 18 and 7. > There is a 8 Ohm .2Watt speaker inside. It connects to pins 25 and 7. > CNTL key connects to pins 23 and 7. > CAPS LOCK key connects to pins 24 and 7. > > I'll try to photograph the keyboard and post the picture tomorrow so that you can see what the layout and key legends and shifted legends are. > > > > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Oct 16 23:41:00 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Wang 2200 web site and emulator announcement In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021001014416.021e0ec0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021016213734.0234a540@postoffice.pacbell.net> I've been adding more stuff to my archive of information on the first generation of Wang 2200's. The most meaty things I've added are: 1) a description of the microarchitecture of its custom CPU http://www.thebattles.net/wang/uarch.html 2) which was largely derived from a 2200 service manual http://www.thebattles.net/wang/2200tech/2200_service_manual.pdf http://www.thebattles.net/wang/2200tech/2200_service_manual.djvu 3) a write up about the little known Wang 3300, a precursor of the 2200. It was aimed at the PDP-8 market. Unlike the 2200, it was a general purpose CPU and BASIC wasn't built in; it had to be loaded from paper tape. The BASIC supported up to 16 simultaneous users. http://www.thebattles.net/wang/3300.html That page also has some scans of press releases and a brochure on the machine. Next up, I hope to scan some 2200 BASIC manuals and have them on-line in a week or two. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Wed Oct 16 23:51:01 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: Location of Cromemco System One Revealed Message-ID: <3DADDEC4.29564.A6F8710@localhost> I finally heard back from someone at my unit on the location of that Cromemco System One and Hard Drive. I was told that it went to Re-PC in Seattle (I'm assuming that they didn't mean the one in Tukwila). So hopefully, some collector in this area can find it and score it cheap. I had my shot at it earlier in the month and blew it. Live and learn, I guess. I simply didn't have enough information to go on when deciding what pieces to bring home. There should also be a System Two there as well, since there were two of them, and I only took one. Happy hunting! -- Scarletdown From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Wed Oct 16 23:51:24 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: FS or FT - Bare Cromemco System Three Message-ID: <3DADDEC4.15181.A6F890E@localhost> I still have that stripped down Cromemco System Three taking up space here and serving as a shin-bruising hazard in my living room, if anyone in the Pacific Northwest is interested. All it has is a pair of 8 inch floppy drives. I'm open to reasonable offers on this (not sure what would be considered reasonable, truth to tell). Cash is always good, but a trade would be nice as well. I would especially be interested in getting a Commodore PET (the type with the full keyboard instead of the chicklet keyboard, and perhaps a disk drive). The only catch is you would have to come pick it up, as I still do not have a working vehicle to deliver it myself. Any takers? -- Scarletdown From dan at ekoan.com Thu Oct 17 01:10:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:05 2005 Subject: HP 9915 keyboard (PN 98155) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021016205034.0099e400@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021017022050.03aedac0@enigma> At 08:50 PM 10/16/02 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks for peeking in your keyboard again -- it seems you may have the only >one out there. I've got one that I pulled out of storage tonight. Joe's already given you the wiring (I haven't checked any of those details), but I have put up some photos at http://www.decodesystems.com/hp98155a.html so you can see what one looks like. Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Oct 17 01:30:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <1922933958.20021016092007@subatomix.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016234359.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> <002e01c27512$9d142740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <4.3.2.7.2.20021016234359.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021017163241.02420c78@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 09:20 AM 16/10/2002 -0500, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >Oh, I get it: You want us to wait for a decade so that you can have all the >nice machines that turn up between now and then! :-) Well maybe. I have most of the collectable computers I want with the possible exception of a Pascal Microengine and an original PDP-8. I can fantasize about a KS-10 or a XKL Toad-10 but I don't have space or power or airconditioning for the former or the money for the latter. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Oct 17 02:03:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: OT: Anime (was: Sign of the times) References: <3DAC776D.32277.4F3A4C1@localhost> <3DACDE67.1020304@jetnet.ab.ca> <3DACE7F6.9040607@internet1.net> <3DACF06C.2050003@jetnet.ab.ca> <200210161701.NAA65844648@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <004501c275ab$9afb19c0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Megan wrote: >>> Cartoon network is not the place to watch Anime. >> Where is? > Cartoon Network 'adult swim' shows some of the anime which evolves > over time. But I really dislike cartoon network because of what > they do to some of the older US cartoons -- they snip them and > edit them and add new PC dialog, or stuff that is just so > mind-numbingly childish it isn't worth it. Fox Kids are 10x worse. My brother was watching something on FK (Digimon or something like that). They decided to jump from the middle of the series back to the first episode again... He wasn't pleased. Nor was I - he gave me a hard time about it... *sigh* little brothers can be such a pain... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Oct 17 04:11:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021016233129.027ff690@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021017191512.02420c78@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 08:24 AM 16/10/2002 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > > > Geez. I can hardly remember what a DECsystem-10 looks like and I've got > > photos! Half of Australia's red wine production over the last 10 years has > > passed through my house (and me :-) so the long term memory has been > > replaced with tannins.... > >Your memory may go but all the anti-oxidants in the wine will keep your >heart pumping blood to your empty brain, pulsating with faded glimpses of >past glory ;) That's probably OK then. > > All I can remember is a largish (blue?) slightly circular console (say 4 to > > 6 feet long) with switches and lights (no CRTs) and possibly a separate > > room filled with valves. This would make some sense for a system installed > > in the early to mid-60s. > >My first guess: a PDP-1. > >http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/vs-dec-pdp-1.jpg No, definitely not a PDP-1. The console is too small. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From cpg at aladdin.de Thu Oct 17 05:38:00 2002 From: cpg at aladdin.de (Christian Groessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux Message-ID: <200210171039.MAA09589@panther.aladdin.de> On 10/16/2002 08:05:04 PM EST Patrick Finnegan wrote: > >Granted. I was just speaking of the type of 'automatic determination' >that Teledisk does - my primary goal would be to create a replacement for >Teledisk that runs on linux (and *BSD, eventually). Mentioning *BSD, I made a patch to NetBSD to support different disk formats (MFM only, similar to Linux fdutils). go to http://www.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/query-pr-single.pl?number=15199 if you're interested... regards, chris From at258 at osfn.org Thu Oct 17 08:07:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Wang 2200 web site and emulator announcement In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021016213734.0234a540@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: Jim, do you have anything on the CS line? I haven't even seen one of those. On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Jim Battle wrote: > I've been adding more stuff to my archive of information on the first > generation of Wang 2200's. The most meaty things I've added are: > > 1) a description of the microarchitecture of its custom CPU > > http://www.thebattles.net/wang/uarch.html > > 2) which was largely derived from a 2200 service manual > > http://www.thebattles.net/wang/2200tech/2200_service_manual.pdf > http://www.thebattles.net/wang/2200tech/2200_service_manual.djvu > > 3) a write up about the little known Wang 3300, a precursor of the > 2200. It was aimed at the PDP-8 market. Unlike the 2200, it was a general > purpose CPU and BASIC wasn't built in; it had to be loaded from paper > tape. The BASIC supported up to 16 simultaneous users. > > http://www.thebattles.net/wang/3300.html > > That page also has some scans of press releases and a brochure on the machine. > > Next up, I hope to scan some 2200 BASIC manuals and have them on-line in a > week or two. > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Oct 17 09:45:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Selling old(er) computers in NJ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One more thing, I'll be coming from the west on whatever interstate is closest, you can give me directions starting from there. -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > I'm having a garage sale this weekend in Northern NJ. I will be selling > off most all of my 486 and earlier systems. Now I know this isn't of too > much interest to people here... BUT, I will also have available the 4 IBM > System 23's that I have yet to unload (not do to lack of interest, but > due to lack of my ability right now to ship). As well I will probably > have some other odds and ends of older machines and equipment. (ATs, and > similar, dot matrix printers, a few laser printers,... I have to see what > all I have). > > I may also have some older Macs (all 68k, most 030 or lower), I have to > see what I have that I don't currently have a use for, and can bear to > part with (I might have enough Mac Pluses and SEs to unload a few, if I > can bring myself to doing so). > > I'm not expecting to get much for the PCs (if anything, really I am > putting them on the lawn to see what I get before they are stripped down > and thrown out), but I would like to get something for things like the > IBM System 23's. > > There will also be some older A/V equipment, but the only stuff probably > of interest here would be some 3/4" Umatic VCRs, the rest is just older > amps, tape decks, and TVs, nothing fancy. And of course some of your > normal garage sale fodder (I'm bringing some junk over from my house as > well). > > If anyone is in my area and wants to stop by, let me know, I'll give you > directions. Its in Ridgewood on Franklin Turnpike on the front lawn of my > office (as well as some inside, we have odds and ends of office equipment > to unload, and I don't feel like dragging it all outside) > > -chris > > > From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Oct 17 10:07:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD09@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, Today I got a call from one of Holland's major daily newspapers (for those of you who are curious: its the NRC Handelsblad). They asked me if I were willing to write them a feature article on "Retro computing: strange people, or a necessity for the future?". This (working) title is mine; what they mean is: are we just being weird geeks, or is preserving the computing past something required for future generations to understand the world in which they live, and how things got to be that way? I have done books and various articles in papers before, but I do feel a little uncomfortable writing about things I have been involved in for only about 5 years or so. Any suggestions here? [the answer, by the way, is: "yes, we're weird. so deal with it."] Cheers, Fred From marvin at rain.org Thu Oct 17 10:21:01 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD09@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3DAED5B6.E976E4CD@rain.org> Outstanding!!! My only suggestion would be to make the point that the documentation/software/etc. is as important as the hardware. Too often, the only thing left is the hardware ... and that just isn't enough :). "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > > All, > > Today I got a call from one of Holland's major daily newspapers (for > those > of you who are curious: its the NRC Handelsblad). They asked me if I > were > willing to write them a feature article on "Retro computing: strange > people, > or a necessity for the future?". This (working) title is mine; what > they > mean is: are we just being weird geeks, or is preserving the computing > past > something required for future generations to understand the world in > which > they live, and how things got to be that way? > > I have done books and various articles in papers before, but I do feel a > little uncomfortable writing about things I have been involved in for > only > about 5 years or so. > > Any suggestions here? > > [the answer, by the way, is: "yes, we're weird. so deal with it."] > > Cheers, > Fred From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Oct 17 10:26:00 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Wang 2200 web site and emulator announcement In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021016213734.0234a540@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021017082448.023619f0@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 09:08 AM 10/17/02 -0400, "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: >Jim, do you have anything on the CS line? I haven't even seen one of those. Merle -- I don't, and I don't think I ever will. My interest in the Wang is confined to the first generation machines. The VS machines were well after my time and were radically different than the first generation machines. Simply, the nostalgia factor is entirely missing. Here is somebody who does have one, though; in fact, he has a lot of different Wangs: http://home.wxs.nl/~janvdv/wang/wangmuseum.htm ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From gil at vauxelectronics.com Thu Oct 17 10:29:16 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Reading HP series 80 ROMs Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021017083047.00995100@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi folks: I am forwarding this on behalf of John Shadbolt, a buddy of mine who is not on this list -- he describes below a technique for reading HP-85 roms, for burning into eproms, which can then run from the prog-rom card. gil >From: john_shadbolt@talk21.com >To: gil@vauxelectronics.com >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:54:03 GMT+01:00 >Subject: Reading HP series 80 ROMs > >Gil, > >Here is the procedure I used, please post this 'as is' onto cctalk, including my spam proof e-mail & web site address: > > >Reading HP Series 80 ROMs >========================= >Here are the steps. > >You need: > >HP series 80 machine with Assembler ROM or EPROM :-), a serial adapter, a PC. I have performed the following on my HP-85, I assume this will work on a 86/87/9915. > >1. Determine the ROM number for the ROM. You may have this anyway (as it is used for error messages). For example my guess for the HP 85 EMS ROM is that it is 317 octal / 207 decimal (the same as for the HP 87 EMS ROM which I do have). To check run the command: > >MEM 60000:207,2 > >This should display >317 061 > >If not then you need to try other numbers in the MEM command from 1 to 254 (eg usng a FOR / NEXT loop) until you have found all the ROMs on the system (the Assembler ROM is 40 decimal). The first two bytes of the ROM are the ROM number followed by the complement of the ROM number. > >2. Connect up a PC to the serial port and capture the output from the HP 85. > >3. CRT IS 10 - to redirect output to PC. > >4. MEM 60000:207,20000 > >This dumps 8192 bytes + text to the PC. Then send me the file on e-mail (john_shadboltREMOVETHISBIT@talk21.com) and I will run a conversion program to make it into binary, I can then send you the binary + Intel hex file version to blow onto a 2764 EPROM. > >5. To use the EPROM the Programmable ROM module and also I assume the 9915 carrier has to have switches set to show the ROM number. > >I will publish all ROM listings on my website: > >http://www.vintagecomputers.freeserve.co.uk/hp80/ > >Regards, >John > ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 17 10:37:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Avail: Bull Gamma 115 (1968); IBM 3803; IBM 4361-6; IBM 3705-80 .. in Hungary In-Reply-To: <3DAD9285.25086.653B1E@localhost> Message-ID: Woah! I hope someone grabs these! On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Stan Sieler wrote: > Hi, > > I received the following...if anyone is interested, contact > the seller (totbela@hotmail.com). I do not know Bela. > > Please let the list know what happens, however :) > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > My name is Bela Toth from hungary. > I have a few old big supercomputer, and i want to sell > that. This computers in made 1964-1968. > My supercomputer-collection which i want to sell: > > -BULL GAMMA 115 (1968') > Include: cpu, 8 ligamental unit, 2 printer. > > -IBM 3803 > Include: cpu, 8 ligamental unit, 9 harddisk unit, work-description > > -IBM 4361-5 > Include: 2 harddisk unit > > -IBM 3705-80 > Include: control unit > > > THIS SUPERCOMPUTERS IS WORKING!!! > If you interested in, the big, old supercomputers, > please send me an email! > totbela@hotmail.com > > Best Regards, > Bela Toth > Hungary > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Oct 17 10:46:00 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD09@mwsrv04.microwalt.n l> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021017113420.00b1cf30@mail.wincom.net> At 05:08 PM 17/10/2002 +0200, you wrote: >All, > >Today I got a call from one of Holland's major daily newspapers (for >those >of you who are curious: its the NRC Handelsblad). They asked me if I >were >willing to write them a feature article on "Retro computing: strange >people, >or a necessity for the future?". This (working) title is mine; what >they >mean is: are we just being weird geeks, or is preserving the computing >past >something required for future generations to understand the world in >which >they live, and how things got to be that way? > >I have done books and various articles in papers before, but I do feel a >little uncomfortable writing about things I have been involved in for >only >about 5 years or so. > >Any suggestions here? > >[the answer, by the way, is: "yes, we're weird. so deal with it."] > >Cheers, > Fred Hi, Fred: The particular reason that I think old computers (hardware, software, and documentation,)should be preserved is that the field is changing so fast when compared with any other technology that one can think of. Railroading? Fifty year old locomotives are still in use. Automobiles? About the only recent changes are emission standards. Even electronics is not changing that fast, but if your computer is more than a year old, you are no longer"state of the art". On this basis, preserving a ten year old computer is about equivalent to restoring a 100 year old locomotive or a 75 year old car. (And cheaper too.) Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 17 10:49:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: OT: Clean steel? Message-ID: There are two rooms in the ACCRC building that are filled with huge old (useless) refrigeration systems. Tons of steel. We'd like to get the rooms cleared out so we can use them. We've gotten quotes in the past but all of them will end up costing us to remove the equipment since the rooms are enclosed and one of them is down a ladder with a narrow door. Everything will need to be cut up and removed piece-meal. There is also some very large equipment on the roof that will need a crane to remove. A while back we had a brief discussion about "clean steel". "Clean steel" is supposedly steel that was smelted before the first atomic bomb tests, and therefore contains no radiation. Apparently, air since the first atomic bomb test is now filled with background radiation, and because so much air is used in the smelting process, a lot of the radiation gets into modern steel making it unsuitable for some applications (such as medical test equipment where radioactive isotopes are used as part of the operation). I was thinking that because this building is so old (from the 1930s) that a lot of the steel in those rooms is "clean". I called a scrapper yesterday who has been in the business for 30+ years and is a Harvard graduate, and he said he has never, ever heard of "clean steel". So what gives? Is there a government website somewhere that defines "clean steel"? I'm hoping that the steel is actually worth enough to make it a wash to have it removed. As it stands, the quote I have so far is that we have $25/ton worth of steel and $30/ton to salvage it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 17 10:56:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Avail: Bull Gamma 115 (1968); IBM 3803; IBM 4361-6; IBM 3705-80 .. in Hungary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > 3803, by the way, is a tape controller. I would drive to Indiana for one > of those. Why? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 17 11:02:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Avail: Bull Gamma 115 (1968); IBM 3803; IBM 4361-6; IBM 3705-80 .. in Hungary Message-ID: Umm isn't the 3705 just a communications front-end processor? If you want a 3725, one of the yards out here in CO has one... Have a Ramtek too, and an HSC-50, both of which are rusty as hell... The 3725 has probably only been there about a year or so. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 17 11:05:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021017191512.02420c78@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > > > All I can remember is a largish (blue?) slightly circular console (say 4 to > > > 6 feet long) with switches and lights (no CRTs) and possibly a separate > > > room filled with valves. This would make some sense for a system installed > > > in the early to mid-60s. > > > >My first guess: a PDP-1. > > > >http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/vs-dec-pdp-1.jpg > > No, definitely not a PDP-1. The console is too small. Ok, I misunderstood what you meant by "circular console". Obviously the PDP-1 would be disqualified as a candidate since you said "no CRTs". Do you mean the main chassis had rounded corners? Could it perhaps have been a Packard Bell? http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/BRL61-0740.jpg http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/pb250.jpg That is a picture of a Packard Bell PB250. Here is more info: http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/BRL61-p.html#PACKARD-BELL-250 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 17 11:05:30 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Avail: Bull Gamma 115 (1968); IBM 3803; IBM 4361-6; IBM 3705-80 .. in Hungary Message-ID: Well if you had a 3420 and no controller, you'd be quite happy to find it... Hell I'd drive to NJ for skins for my 4381, 3880, and 3380.. MOTHERF**KING Consolidated Freight! Sorry, rant has reached termination point, Abort, Retry, Fail? Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 17 11:06:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD09@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > [the answer, by the way, is: "yes, we're weird. so deal with it."] Actually, the answer is both! E-mail me directly for some happily dispensed input. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Oct 17 11:09:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: OT: Clean steel? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > There are two rooms in the ACCRC building that are filled with huge old > (useless) refrigeration systems. Tons of steel. We'd like to get the > rooms cleared out so we can use them. Athough I can't comment with certainty on the backround radiation aspects of your post - It *does* seem a tad ironic that those beautiful old upright-cylinder compressors have to go for scrap... though the amount of work involved in preserving one would be mind-boggling for amateurs. I do know folks who collect and preserve old Gasoline and Diesel engines from the turn of (last) century, and many of those machines are as big (or bigger) and buried in old fatcories in basements and walled-up rooms. I know the compressors can be dismantled down to major subassemblies, and surely the big motors are worth a bit more than scrap. How much of that piping is copper, BTW??? And it's BIG stuff, too. Also - there might be something to be said for getting twenty 'volunteer mechanical archaeologists' togehter and renting a couple of cutting torches.... and it might be a less-exoensive option to consider opening up a wall and then re-closing it afterward... > > A while back we had a brief discussion about "clean steel". "Clean steel" > is supposedly steel that was smelted before the first atomic bomb tests, > and therefore contains no radiation. Apparently, air since the first > atomic bomb test is now filled with background radiation, and because so > much air is used in the smelting process, a lot of the radiation gets into > modern steel making it unsuitable for some applications (such as medical > test equipment where radioactive isotopes are used as part of the > operation). Grain of truth or urban legend? And how can we drag this close to the Topic... hmmm .. well, the Eniac must have had racks and chassis made of relatively "clean" steel - while at VCF, I'll bring my funky bright yellow (brand-new in the box) 1964 Civil Defense Gieger counter and we'll check this out... ;} Cheers John From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Oct 17 12:03:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: We're not weird (was: [OT] paper on Retro ?) In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD09@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD09@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <20021017172730.GB65268@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Fred N. van Kempen, from writings of Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 05:08:37PM +0200: > Today I got a call from one of Holland's major daily newspapers (for > those of you who are curious: its the NRC Handelsblad). They asked > me if I were willing to write them a feature article on "Retro > computing: strange people, or a necessity for the future?". This Why did you choose that title? There's nothing strange about people who collect and use older computers---the truly strange people are those who use Microsoft products and go around purchasing new products just to have something new, as opposed to being content with something that's familiar, well designed and pleasant to use. The same goes for older cars, vinyl LPs, etc. and those who use these and other older products/technologies. > (working) title is mine; what they mean is: are we just being weird > geeks, or is preserving the computing past something required for No, we're not weird. We have an active interest in using and preserving things that are typically well designed, and, surely many of us most certainly do not consider ourselves to be "geeks," finding that term to be offensive. We're not circus side-show freaks just because we have a sensible appreciation for useful vintage technology, be it related to computers, cars, horse-drawn buggies or equipment using valves/tubes. > future generations to understand the world in which they live, and > how things got to be that way? The problem is that far too many people in the present generations have no clues about the world in which they live, and by their cluelessness are destroying the world in which we live. > Any suggestions here? See the aforementioned. > [the answer, by the way, is: "yes, we're weird. so deal with it."] No, we're not. Kindly refer to the book "Eccentrics" by Weeks and James, which presents proof that we're not; the book presents evidence showing that eccentrics are psychologically healthier than the conformist 'droids who are destroying this world. RDD -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From kapteynr at cboe.com Thu Oct 17 12:08:00 2002 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Clean steel? Message-ID: <72F57ECC9732D611815100A0C984ED9C7C8252@msx1.cboe.com> My understanding of this: "Unclean" steel is not radioactive because of the A-bomb tests (although we are all being exposed to roughly 3 times "natural" background radiation because of those tests. There have been several very expensive mistakes in which highly radioactive contaminants got mixed in with scrap metal going to smelters. Some of these were not detected until toys and table legs made from the scrap were being shipped to consumers. About 40% of our steel comes from recycled scrap. This scrap always seems to pick up some radioactive contamination. The 60% of steel made from virgin ore is "clean". Your 1930's scrap is still scrap -- not virgin ore. The EPA has a new program to address this problem: http://www.epa.gov/radiation/cleanmetals/ -Rob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 10:51 AM To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: OT: Clean steel? There are two rooms in the ACCRC building that are filled with huge old (useless) refrigeration systems. Tons of steel. We'd like to get the rooms cleared out so we can use them. We've gotten quotes in the past but all of them will end up costing us to remove the equipment since the rooms are enclosed and one of them is down a ladder with a narrow door. Everything will need to be cut up and removed piece-meal. There is also some very large equipment on the roof that will need a crane to remove. A while back we had a brief discussion about "clean steel". "Clean steel" is supposedly steel that was smelted before the first atomic bomb tests, and therefore contains no radiation. Apparently, air since the first atomic bomb test is now filled with background radiation, and because so much air is used in the smelting process, a lot of the radiation gets into modern steel making it unsuitable for some applications (such as medical test equipment where radioactive isotopes are used as part of the operation). I was thinking that because this building is so old (from the 1930s) that a lot of the steel in those rooms is "clean". I called a scrapper yesterday who has been in the business for 30+ years and is a Harvard graduate, and he said he has never, ever heard of "clean steel". So what gives? Is there a government website somewhere that defines "clean steel"? I'm hoping that the steel is actually worth enough to make it a wash to have it removed. As it stands, the quote I have so far is that we have $25/ton worth of steel and $30/ton to salvage it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Oct 17 12:10:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: OT: Shipping a large, heavy crate Message-ID: I know this has been discussed before, but I can't find the answer in the archives. I need to ship a large, heavy crate (about 30" x 12" x 72" and around 200-250 pounds) in the US. What company would you recommend? Please answer off-list, directly to my email. Thanks, Robert A. Feldman robert_feldman@jdedwards.com From at258 at osfn.org Thu Oct 17 12:23:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Wang 2200 web site and emulator announcement In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021017082448.023619f0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: No Jim, not VS's - the CS line which has to fairly rare. Sometoime in the mid to late 80's Wang was preparing to discontinue the 2200 line. The uproar was so great and resistance so determined that the 2200's were redesigned with more contemporary technology and offered as CS machines. I have never see one, but I have read the article in Access to Wang. I believe the machines were completely 2200 compatible. On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Jim Battle wrote: > At 09:08 AM 10/17/02 -0400, "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > >Jim, do you have anything on the CS line? I haven't even seen one of those. > > Merle -- > > I don't, and I don't think I ever will. My interest in the Wang is > confined to the first generation machines. The VS machines were well after > my time and were radically different than the first generation > machines. Simply, the nostalgia factor is entirely missing. > > Here is somebody who does have one, though; in fact, he has a lot of > different Wangs: > > http://home.wxs.nl/~janvdv/wang/wangmuseum.htm > > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 17 12:25:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: OT: Shipping a large, heavy crate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2429.4.20.168.157.1034875616.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Robert A. Feldman wrote: > I need to ship a large, heavy crate (about 30" x 12" x 72" and around > 200-250 pounds) in the US. What company would you recommend? > Please answer off-list, directly to my email. Actually, please DO answer on-list. This information is of general interest to many of us. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Oct 17 12:29:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Clean steel? Message-ID: Googling doesn't turn up many hits, but I found two (both related to ships): www.liddiard.demon.co.uk/photoix/brittany/kleber.htm and www.hazegray.org/faq/smn7.htm Given so few hits, maybe is is an urban legend. Then again, some applications might require steel without the slight radiation that blast-furnace smelting might add. The mixing in of contaminated scrap is a different (and very real) issue from air-blast introduced low-level radioactivity. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Kapteyn, Rob [mailto:kapteynr@cboe.com] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:09 PM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Clean steel? My understanding of this: "Unclean" steel is not radioactive because of the A-bomb tests (although we are all being exposed to roughly 3 times "natural" background radiation because of those tests. There have been several very expensive mistakes in which highly radioactive contaminants got mixed in with scrap metal going to smelters. Some of these were not detected until toys and table legs made from the scrap were being shipped to consumers. About 40% of our steel comes from recycled scrap. This scrap always seems to pick up some radioactive contamination. The 60% of steel made from virgin ore is "clean". Your 1930's scrap is still scrap -- not virgin ore. The EPA has a new program to address this problem: http://www.epa.gov/radiation/cleanmetals/ -Rob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 10:51 AM To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: OT: Clean steel? There are two rooms in the ACCRC building that are filled with huge old (useless) refrigeration systems. Tons of steel. We'd like to get the rooms cleared out so we can use them. We've gotten quotes in the past but all of them will end up costing us to remove the equipment since the rooms are enclosed and one of them is down a ladder with a narrow door. Everything will need to be cut up and removed piece-meal. There is also some very large equipment on the roof that will need a crane to remove. A while back we had a brief discussion about "clean steel". "Clean steel" is supposedly steel that was smelted before the first atomic bomb tests, and therefore contains no radiation. Apparently, air since the first atomic bomb test is now filled with background radiation, and because so much air is used in the smelting process, a lot of the radiation gets into modern steel making it unsuitable for some applications (such as medical test equipment where radioactive isotopes are used as part of the operation). I was thinking that because this building is so old (from the 1930s) that a lot of the steel in those rooms is "clean". I called a scrapper yesterday who has been in the business for 30+ years and is a Harvard graduate, and he said he has never, ever heard of "clean steel". So what gives? Is there a government website somewhere that defines "clean steel"? I'm hoping that the steel is actually worth enough to make it a wash to have it removed. As it stands, the quote I have so far is that we have $25/ton worth of steel and $30/ton to salvage it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 17 12:40:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Clean steel? Message-ID: <200210171742.KAA24707@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I've not heard the term used with steel but it is used with lead. Pre-bomb lead is always needed. I doubt there is much need for pre-bomb steel. Dwight >From: "Feldman, Robert" > >Googling doesn't turn up many hits, but I found two (both related to ships): > >www.liddiard.demon.co.uk/photoix/brittany/kleber.htm and >www.hazegray.org/faq/smn7.htm > >Given so few hits, maybe is is an urban legend. Then again, some >applications might require steel without the slight radiation that >blast-furnace smelting might add. The mixing in of contaminated scrap is a >different (and very real) issue from air-blast introduced low-level >radioactivity. > >Bob > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kapteyn, Rob [mailto:kapteynr@cboe.com] >Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:09 PM >To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' >Subject: RE: Clean steel? > > >My understanding of this: > >"Unclean" steel is not radioactive because of the A-bomb tests (although we >are all being exposed to roughly 3 times "natural" background radiation >because of those tests. > >There have been several very expensive mistakes in which highly radioactive >contaminants got mixed in with scrap metal going to smelters. Some of >these were not detected until toys and table legs made from the scrap were >being shipped to consumers. > >About 40% of our steel comes from recycled scrap. >This scrap always seems to pick up some radioactive contamination. >The 60% of steel made from virgin ore is "clean". >Your 1930's scrap is still scrap -- not virgin ore. > >The EPA has a new program to address this problem: >http://www.epa.gov/radiation/cleanmetals/ > >-Rob > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >Behalf Of Sellam Ismail >Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 10:51 AM >To: Classic Computers Mailing List >Subject: OT: Clean steel? > > > >There are two rooms in the ACCRC building that are filled with huge old >(useless) refrigeration systems. Tons of steel. We'd like to get the >rooms cleared out so we can use them. > >We've gotten quotes in the past but all of them will end up costing us to >remove the equipment since the rooms are enclosed and one of them is down >a ladder with a narrow door. Everything will need to be cut up and >removed piece-meal. There is also some very large equipment on the roof >that will need a crane to remove. > >A while back we had a brief discussion about "clean steel". "Clean steel" >is supposedly steel that was smelted before the first atomic bomb tests, >and therefore contains no radiation. Apparently, air since the first >atomic bomb test is now filled with background radiation, and because so >much air is used in the smelting process, a lot of the radiation gets into >modern steel making it unsuitable for some applications (such as medical >test equipment where radioactive isotopes are used as part of the >operation). > >I was thinking that because this building is so old (from the 1930s) that >a lot of the steel in those rooms is "clean". > >I called a scrapper yesterday who has been in the business for 30+ years >and is a Harvard graduate, and he said he has never, ever heard of "clean >steel". > >So what gives? Is there a government website somewhere that defines >"clean steel"? > >I'm hoping that the steel is actually worth enough to make it a wash to >have it removed. As it stands, the quote I have so far is that we have >$25/ton worth of steel and $30/ton to salvage it. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com >* > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 17 12:43:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: OT: HP 1707B info needed (was: Vintage Scopes) In-Reply-To: <20021017032742.GE61520@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Oct 16, 2 11:27:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1150 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021017/88b5ccce/attachment.ksh From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Oct 17 12:47:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: OT: Shipping a large, heavy crate References: Message-ID: <3DAEF806.2040700@eoni.com> I understand that ForwardAir is a good choice. Else, by truck. Jim Feldman, Robert wrote: > I know this has been discussed before, but I can't find the answer in the > archives. > > I need to ship a large, heavy crate (about 30" x 12" x 72" and around > 200-250 pounds) in the US. What company would you recommend? > > Please answer off-list, directly to my email. > > Thanks, > > Robert A. Feldman > robert_feldman@jdedwards.com > > . > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Oct 17 12:52:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: OT: HP 1707B info needed (was: Vintage Scopes) Message-ID: Last time I was at my Toyota dealer, their parts lists were on microfiche, so there are other sources you can try besides libraries. -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:32 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: HP 1707B info needed (was: Vintage Scopes) > Also, while looking for the aforementioned info., I located microfiche > for a 1707A service manual (but have no microfiche reader yet), and Some public libraries still have microfiche readers, and it would probably be possible to get permission to look at your own fiche if you needed to. I'm lucky, I managed to get an old microfiche reader that was being thrown out.... -tony From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 17 13:20:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: What is this? Message-ID: Can anyone identify the Apple ][ card in this eBay auction? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2061361635 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From altertech at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Oct 17 13:43:01 2002 From: altertech at blueyonder.co.uk (Rob Hamadi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021017194205.027222f0@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk> At 07:21 PM 10/17/02, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Can anyone identify the Apple ][ card in this eBay auction? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2061361635 Just guessing but is it a PC on a card to run inside your GS? Rob From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Oct 17 13:44:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It seems to be a Corvus Omninet Transporter Network Card. Google turned up 42 hits, 2 of which were this question previously asked on this list. It wants to talk to a Corvus shareable drive of some sort. Don't know what protocol it uses, but I'd expect it to be RS-485 or some other balanced pair type media. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 14:21 To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: What is this? Can anyone identify the Apple ][ card in this eBay auction? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2061361635 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 17 13:48:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: What is this? Message-ID: I thought the Transporter card was an Apple II NIC. But in looking at those pics, I don't see anyway to connect cables. I've never personally seen or used one, so I don't know what kind of cable was used, or where on the card you would look (or if it was even ON the card... might have been a 2nd card that contained the interface for all I know). There is a little bit of info in Google that seems to support my memory of it being a NIC... but nothing that helps explain how to connect it (does seem to indicate that it was a custom network of some sort) -chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 17 13:55:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > It seems to be a Corvus Omninet Transporter Network Card. Google turned up > 42 hits, 2 of which were this question previously asked on this list. It > wants to talk to a Corvus shareable drive of some sort. Don't know what > protocol it uses, but I'd expect it to be RS-485 or some other balanced pair > type media. Sounds reasonable; but are the connectors on the card consistent with that hypothesis? From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 17 14:00:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: What is this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2543.4.20.168.157.1034881319.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Can anyone identify the Apple ][ card in this eBay auction? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2061361635 Corvus Omninet interface From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 17 14:01:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: What is this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2547.4.20.168.157.1034881392.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I thought the Transporter card was an Apple II NIC. > > But in looking at those pics, I don't see anyway to connect cables. Connector at top left, visible in the lower picture on the web page. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Oct 17 14:05:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: OT: Clean steel? In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail "OT: Clean steel?" (Oct 17, 8:50) References: Message-ID: <10210172008.ZM4670@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 17, 8:50, Sellam Ismail wrote: > A while back we had a brief discussion about "clean steel". "Clean steel" > is supposedly steel that was smelted before the first atomic bomb tests, > and therefore contains no radiation. Not "none", just "less". There's always been some background radiation from natural sources, and some of that finds its way into smelted metals (all sorts, not just steel). > Apparently, air since the first > atomic bomb test is now filled with background radiation, and because so > much air is used in the smelting process, a lot of the radiation gets into > modern steel making it unsuitable for some applications (such as medical > test equipment where radioactive isotopes are used as part of the > operation). And other places where it's important to measure very small amounts of radiation accurately. > So what gives? Is there a government website somewhere that defines > "clean steel"? > > I'm hoping that the steel is actually worth enough to make it a wash to > have it removed. As it stands, the quote I have so far is that we have > $25/ton worth of steel and $30/ton to salvage it. I wouldn't get your hopes up. I know that some of the WW1 German Fleet scuttled in Scapa Flow has been cut up to obtain clean steel -- I've been there and seen the remains -- and I found a reference in the sci.military.naval FAQ to the salvage of German U-boats, but as far as I know, most of that sort of steel is/was wanted for large objects like some of the devices used in research labs like CERN. I found another reference about Fermilab seeking radiologically clean steel some time ago, but not much else. The FAQ points out that the U-boat salvage rights haven't been exercised (and Scapa Flow hasn't been emptied either) so perhaps the demand is too small. The steel can't be resmelted, and possibly not welded either, so if it's to be used, I guess it would have to be of suitable size/thickness to be mechanically cut and formed. Oh, and don't cut it with a torch if you want to sell it as "clean"! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Oct 17 14:10:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think so. I have vague recollections of these cards, along with the Corvus drives. The red molex connector on the left is the network connector. Why they put it on that end, instead of where it might hang out the slots only Corvus knows. It's a three wire connector, but I don't remember if it's half duplex balanced pair, or full duplex single ended. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 14:57 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: What is this? On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > It seems to be a Corvus Omninet Transporter Network Card. Google turned up > 42 hits, 2 of which were this question previously asked on this list. It > wants to talk to a Corvus shareable drive of some sort. Don't know what > protocol it uses, but I'd expect it to be RS-485 or some other balanced pair > type media. Sounds reasonable; but are the connectors on the card consistent with that hypothesis? From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Oct 17 14:13:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: What is this? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021017194205.027222f0@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk> from Rob Hamadi at "Oct 17, 2 07:43:57 pm" Message-ID: <200210171923.MAA10260@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Can anyone identify the Apple ][ card in this eBay auction? > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2061361635 > Just guessing but is it a PC on a card to run inside your GS? Ugh. I'm not ruining my IIgs like that. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- A service of the Department of the Redundancy Department. ------------------ From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 17 14:20:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: What is this? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021017194205.027222f0@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Rob Hamadi wrote: > At 07:21 PM 10/17/02, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > >Can anyone identify the Apple ][ card in this eBay auction? > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2061361635 > > Just guessing but is it a PC on a card to run inside your GS? Nope. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Oct 17 14:30:01 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c27614$1ead69e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> I never used a Corvus network with Apples, but I did use it with PC's and DEC Rainbows. I understand they had network cards for "a lot" of different systems. The network drive we had had no monitor or keyboard, it was just a big box with a hard drive. Actually, there were two boxes stacked, but I don't know what they did. I assume one was the hard drive, and the other had all the network connectors on it. You configured the drive (partitions, user access, etc) through software running on a client. I think the network was a star arrangement... Each workstation had a dedicated line running back to the main unit. I remember those little red connectors - they came unplugged pretty easily. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of J.C. Wren Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 3:12 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: What is this? I think so. I have vague recollections of these cards, along with the Corvus drives. The red molex connector on the left is the network connector. Why they put it on that end, instead of where it might hang out the slots only Corvus knows. It's a three wire connector, but I don't remember if it's half duplex balanced pair, or full duplex single ended. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 14:57 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: What is this? On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > It seems to be a Corvus Omninet Transporter Network Card. Google > turned up > 42 hits, 2 of which were this question previously asked on this list. It > wants to talk to a Corvus shareable drive of some sort. Don't know what > protocol it uses, but I'd expect it to be RS-485 or some other > balanced pair > type media. Sounds reasonable; but are the connectors on the card consistent with that hypothesis? From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 17 14:31:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: What is this? Message-ID: >> But in looking at those pics, I don't see anyway to connect cables. > >Connector at top left, visible in the lower picture on the web page. Ahh... gotcha, I thought that was a boxy red LED. I didn't look close enough. -chris From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Thu Oct 17 15:24:00 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question References: Message-ID: <3DAF1C64.66D16EA9@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> [Sorry, no context because I deleted the original message!] Huw, You might be able to find someone else who remembers the system by joining the Friends Reunited website at http://www.friendsreunited.co.uk. It's free to sign up, so all you have to do is associate yourself with Keele University and then post a message on the message board asking if anyone else remembers the machine. It costs ?5 a year to be able to email other people, but I think the message boards are free. There are currently over 90 people registered for Keele in the 1960s. - Paul From glenslick at hotmail.com Thu Oct 17 15:40:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? Message-ID: While we're on the subject, did anyone see the article "Data Extinction" in the October 2002 issue of Technology Review? Doesn't look like the full article is available for free online. http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/tristram1002.asp -Glen _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Oct 17 16:28:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:06 2005 Subject: OT: HP 1707B info needed (was: Vintage Scopes) In-Reply-To: References: <20021017032742.GE61520@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20021017214546.GC65268@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 06:31:56PM +0100: > Is this really a Tekky? The Subject: line says HP, and it sounds a lot > more like an HP model number to me... Oops... I meant HP 1707B, but must have been thinking about my Tektronix 'scope at the time. > How different are the -A and -B models here? In other words, if you could > read the microfiche manual you have, would that solve all the problems? That, I'm not certain of. As soon as I take a look at the microfiche, I'll find out, and will let you know. It's quite possible that both use the same HV power supply. > Some public libraries still have microfiche readers, and it would As do university libraries, but I doubt they could make hardcopies. The local branch of the Baltimore County public library is mostly useless (they tend to focus on keeping books like romance novels and other fiction paperbacks, etc. in stock at the expense of useful books, which they get rid every so often to clear more space for more rubbish), but that's worth checking as well. Someone mentioned to that Kinkos copy centers can do this, so I'll check that option out, as there's one nearby. > probably be possible to get permission to look at your own fiche if you > needed to. I'm lucky, I managed to get an old microfiche reader that was > being thrown out.... That's on my list of things to obtain when I can find room for one. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 17 16:48:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021017214928.13770.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Can anyone identify the Apple ][ card in this eBay auction? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2061361635 --- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > It seems to be a Corvus Omninet Transporter Network Card... > It wants to talk to a Corvus shareable drive of some sort. Don't know > what protocol it uses, but I'd expect it to be RS-485 or some other > balanced pair type media. Bingo. I have a Corvus enclosure and DE-9 transceivers from the first Mac installation at my Mother's typesetting shop (late 1980s). The drive is a FH 5.25" mech in a shoebox with a PSU and Corvus Omninet board. ISTR it uses a Walkman-style connector from node to node. ISTR it died before she gave it to me. Not sure if the HD mech went Tango-Uniform or the PSU or the Omninet board. She replaced it with 18-20MB drives in/next to each Mac. She continued to use the Mac 512Ks she purchased at the same time as the Corvus drive until she closed up shop, c. 1997 (but those particular Macs had been upgraded (officially) to 512Ke (new drive and ROMs) and had a Dove Snap installed, giving them 1MB total and SCSI). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 17 16:51:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021017215251.14160.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- chris wrote: > I thought the Transporter card was an Apple II NIC. > > But in looking at those pics, I don't see anyway to connect cables. It's the reddish-orange connector in the top-left of the big picture. Three pins. That's it. > There is a little bit of info in Google that seems to support my memory > of it being a NIC... but nothing that helps explain how to connect it > (does seem to indicate that it was a custom network of some sort) It is a custom network. The hard drive is a node, just like all the computers on the loop. Think of it as an interface to 1980s Network Attached Storage unit. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 17 17:03:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: OT: HP 1707B info needed (was: Vintage Scopes) In-Reply-To: <20021017214546.GC65268@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Oct 17, 2 05:45:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2148 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021017/797bd6b8/attachment.ksh From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 17 17:26:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: What is this? Message-ID: <200210172227.PAA24815@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I wish he'd shown a closeup of the left side. What he did closeup was just a static ram. The good stuff was on the left. I know little about Apple stuff though. Dwight >From: "Sellam Ismail" > >Can anyone identify the Apple ][ card in this eBay auction? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2061361635 > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 17 19:43:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Anyone have a spare PSU for a DEC Highnote Ultra II laptop? In-Reply-To: <20021017033215.8322.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3DAD9632.5000506@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021017204527.44670018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have two of the Highnote laptopss, both missing the PSU. If you find out what the pin out is let me know. Joe At 08:32 PM 10/16/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Some time ago, I got a DEC Highnote Ultra II laptop missing the PSU >and IDE bay. I was attempting to fire it up tonight with an alternate >PSU and "fire" was the operative word. > >It seems that there is an internal PSU slightly larger than a standard 9V >battery... inside this mini-PSU (a DC-DC converter, really) were/are some >100uF *10V* SMT caps. (if that's what the 100-10 marking means). These >are 1mm x 2mm, gray with a white band on one end and the legend on the >PCB says C1, C2, etc., not D1, D2, etc. Well... they must have been >counting on the tolerance of the caps being +/- 10% and the PSU not being >*over* 11VDC (It's marked "11VDC @ 2.7A"). I thought that 12VDC would be >safe. It was not. I'm guessing that my "12VDC" was slightly higher than >that due to the light load that the laptop placed on it. > >So... one exploded SMT cap later (now replaced), I'm in search of a >"real" PSU. It has a connector I'm used to seeing on Dell laptops, >kind of a five-sided shape with three pins. The pin in the peak >seems to be the ground, the two pins in the base corners seem to be >the positive supply. > >This sound familiar to anyone? > >Thanks, > >-ethan > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More >http://faith.yahoo.com > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 17 20:04:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Anyone have a spare PSU for a DEC Highnote Ultra II laptop? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021017204527.44670018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20021018010522.24462.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > I have two of the Highnote laptopss, both missing the PSU. If you find > out what the pin out is let me know. > >The pin in the peak > >seems to be the ground, the two pins in the base corners seem to be > >the positive supply. That's my best guess at the moment. I am positive that the base pins are tied together. The question is simply which is + and which is -. One response... might be able to get a PSU. Might not. Missing a variety of parts, mine only cost me shipping ($8). Wouldn't mind getting it working. Not gonna go broke doing it. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Thu Oct 17 20:05:01 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision Message-ID: <3DAEFAEB.7217.EC5ACE5@localhost> After much pondering and debate, I have finally decided on a name for my Cromemco System Two. Once she is operational, she shall be christened as Mintaka. Okay, so that isn't really an earthshaking event or anything like that, but system naming is one of those little geeky activities that I get some strange enjoyment out of. Ironically, the first name that came to mind was Altair; then I instantly remembered that that name was already used as a brand name for an old S-100 girl, so I decided on Mintaka, to keep with the stellar theme. So, uhm, anyway...I guess there wasn't much point ot this post afterall. :p Later! -- Scarletdown From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 17 20:11:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? Message-ID: <3155.4.20.168.142.1034903578.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > While we're on the subject, did anyone see the article "Data > Extinction" in the October 2002 issue of Technology Review? Yeah, but I was somewhat disappointed. The cover made it sound like they would discuss *media* that would last a long time, but they were just talking about maintaining the ability for software to handle the data. That's obviously worthwhile, but it's also much easier to figure out: 1) Use industry-standard data formats, not proprietary formats 2) Use text-based formats where possible rather than binary formats 3) Keep a specification for the format along with that data, ideally on the same physical medium 4) Keep the source code for the software that processes the data, ideally on the same physical medium. Ideally use software written in a programming language that is widely used, not something obscure. 5) Keep the tools used to build the binary of the software. etc. On the media side, though, AFAIK there is only one high-density machine-readable media that can be expected with any confidence to last much more than 20 years. That is CD-R with a gold-coated substrate rather than silver or aluminum. Note that gold-tinted dye is NOT sufficient. The main failure mechanism for CD-Rs is oxidation of the reflective layer, and a gold layer won't do that, so then your limit is based on other physical processes that occur even more slowly. Kodak's accelerated aging tests indicated a typical life of several hundred years, so they conservatively claimed one hundred. They used to have a white paper on their web site. However, almost everyone that made gold CD-R media (including Kodak) has abandoned it. Mitsui appears to still offer it. Of course, it's more expensive than the cheap stuff by a factor of two or more. Kodak came up with a "marketing breakthrough" in offering discs with a blend of silver and gold. They claim these to be better than silver only discs, though not as good as gold-only. I am very dubious that these mixed discs will actually hold up better than silver-only, since there's not actually enough gold to be sufficiently reflective if all of the silver oxidizes. But I don't really understand the chemistry of it, so perhaps somehow the mix keeps the silver from oxidizing as quickly? I speculate, but have *no* evidence, that gold CD-RW media might last even longer than gold CD-R media. This is because it takes a higher energy level to cause a phase change in CD-RW media. If you need to archive data with any media with a limited lifetime (which means any media at all), you have several potential problems. You need to recopy the media before it fails, and you need to make sure that you don't introduce any errors in replication. The longer the lifetime of the original media, the less of a problem this will be. When you do recopy the media, you'll probably want (or need) to copy it onto a different, more modern medium. One of the things people have worried about is how long CD-ROM drives will exist. I believe that twenty-five years from now it will not be difficult to find a working drive that can read CD-ROMs, but that in fifty nears it will be somewhat difficult. However, one advantage of the CD format is that it was designed to be so simple that a microprocessor is not even necessary in a player or drive. This was a serious design consideration in the late 1970s when Sony and Philips were developing the CD for audio use, though by the time they introduced the first actual products in 1983 the cost of a microprocessor was so low as to make "dumb" CD players impractical. The CD and CD-Audio specifications are widely available. You can't get the official specs without paying some money, but they're in IEC 60908 (CD-Audio) and ISO/IEC 10149 (CD-ROM extension) which are *much* less expensive than buying the Red Book and Yellow Bookfrom Philips. I believe that building a crude but working CD-ROM drive from scratch would be a reasonable project for a few grad students, so if it is really the case that in 50 or 100 years, no new CD-ROM-compatible drives are commercially available and no old ones still work, it won't be an insurmountable challenge to read CD-Rs. If you want a medium with even better longevity than that, I suggest punched mylar tape. But the density is orders of magnitude worse than for CD-R. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Oct 17 20:42:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: <3155.4.20.168.142.1034903578.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: As I have mentioned here before, based on (much) research I did while at MGM on this very subject (35,000 titles on video tape, from 2" Ampex 4-head thru 1" Sony to 3/4" and 1/2" and also some on 1/2 helical-scan reel to reel and into beta, digi-beta, DLT, CDROM, DVD....all needing a uniform archival and modern retrieval scheme..) that binary data written in many paralell micro-film-scale tracks on well-processed virgin Mylar movie film - 35 or 70 mm - has a longevity >250 years with minimal storage care and can be read back with simple optical devices that are easily made. [Lamp - lens - transport - lens/aperture - photocells] And the storage of source code, operating systems, and translation sortware was included in the scheme. But who knows? By then, I probably will be stuck in some remote corner of Hell, having discovered that Satan is also a DEC collector, and was just waiting for me... "...yes the machine room *is* ankle-deep in molten sulfur - it doesn't keep BRU from running just fine.. now get to Work!!" Cheers John From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Oct 17 20:53:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Onyx hunting [ Was Re: Fw: Sign of the times :( ] In-Reply-To: <011601c27576$fd9c12d0$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: This is only in the realm of "educated guessing" but based on the original post, the image, and some asking around. The best information I have leads me to believe this system might be (or at least have been) sitting outside of a small SGI hardware and service provider in Hollywood, by the name of RFX--736 Seward St., Los Angeles, CA 90038. Lat/Long: N 34.084049 W 118.33212 http://www.acme.com/mapper/mapper.cgi?lat=34.084058&long=-118.33211&scale=10&theme=Image&width=3&height=2&dot=Yes The aerial photography is a bit too old and too poor in its quality at the above link for me to recognise anything more than there being some streets, an alley, and some trees which may or may not match up with the existing ground photo: http://world.std.com/~bdc/pics/sgi.jpg I'll consider doing some ground based recon over the weekend. :-) -brian. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Oct 17 21:07:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: <3155.4.20.168.142.1034903578.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021017204732.024c42b0@pc> At 06:12 PM 10/17/2002 -0700, Eric Smith wrote: >One of the things people have worried about is how long CD-ROM drives >will exist. I believe that twenty-five years from now it will not be >difficult to find a working drive that can read CD-ROMs, but that in >fifty years it will be somewhat difficult. Even fifteen years from now, I suspect we'll have access to technology that will make it possible to recover data from archaic and perhaps even fading formats. I'm eagerly waiting for something to reprocess some 8mm video tapes I took with a Sony camcorder whose capacitors and capstans were weaving in and out: immediate rewind and playback showed good video and audio, but playback on other machines fails. I'm hoping to find something to better digitize and re-stabilize these tapes. - John From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 17 21:31:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Corvus Mirror? Message-ID: Does anyone have a Corvus Mirror? This was a VHS tape backup unit for the Corvus hard drive. Pictures and info here: http://209.122.187.156:8082/corvus.html If you have one, please contact me privately at . Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Oct 17 21:42:01 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Wang 2200 web site and emulator announcement In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021017082448.023619f0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021017194232.0237b600@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 01:24 PM 10/17/02 -0400, Merle K. Pierce wrote: >No Jim, not VS's - the CS line which has to fairly rare. Sometoime in >the mid to late 80's Wang was preparing to discontinue the 2200 line. >The uproar was so great and resistance so determined that the 2200's were >redesigned with more contemporary technology and offered as CS machines. >I have never see one, but I have read the article in Access to Wang. I >believe the machines were completely 2200 compatible. OK, I probably am very confused about the Wang line after I stopped using them. However, it still stands that if you want to see one, follow the link below. >On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Jim Battle wrote: > > > At 09:08 AM 10/17/02 -0400, "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > >Jim, do you have anything on the CS line? I haven't even seen one of > those. > > > > Merle -- > > > > I don't, and I don't think I ever will. My interest in the Wang is > > confined to the first generation machines. The VS machines were well > after > > my time and were radically different than the first generation > > machines. Simply, the nostalgia factor is entirely missing. > > > > Here is somebody who does have one, though; in fact, he has a lot of > > different Wangs: > > > > http://home.wxs.nl/~janvdv/wang/wangmuseum.htm > > > > > > ----- > > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > > > > >M. K. Peirce > >Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. >Shady Lea, Rhode Island > >"Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From at258 at osfn.org Thu Oct 17 22:29:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Wang 2200 web site and emulator announcement In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021017194232.0237b600@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: I followed the link, and there are CS pictures, apparently using 4230 terminals. These are the first that I've ever seen. Interesting that they use 386's. On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Jim Battle wrote: > At 01:24 PM 10/17/02 -0400, Merle K. Pierce wrote: > >No Jim, not VS's - the CS line which has to fairly rare. Sometoime in > >the mid to late 80's Wang was preparing to discontinue the 2200 line. > >The uproar was so great and resistance so determined that the 2200's were > >redesigned with more contemporary technology and offered as CS machines. > >I have never see one, but I have read the article in Access to Wang. I > >believe the machines were completely 2200 compatible. > > OK, I probably am very confused about the Wang line after I stopped using > them. However, it still stands that if you want to see one, follow the > link below. > > > >On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Jim Battle wrote: > > > > > At 09:08 AM 10/17/02 -0400, "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > > >Jim, do you have anything on the CS line? I haven't even seen one of > > those. > > > > > > Merle -- > > > > > > I don't, and I don't think I ever will. My interest in the Wang is > > > confined to the first generation machines. The VS machines were well > > after > > > my time and were radically different than the first generation > > > machines. Simply, the nostalgia factor is entirely missing. > > > > > > Here is somebody who does have one, though; in fact, he has a lot of > > > different Wangs: > > > > > > http://home.wxs.nl/~janvdv/wang/wangmuseum.htm > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > > > > > > > > >M. K. Peirce > > > >Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > >Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > > >"Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > > > - Ovid > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Oct 18 00:31:00 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021017204732.024c42b0@pc> Message-ID: <00bc01c27667$d9107a40$0101a8c0@athlon> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [OT] paper on Retro ? >I'm eagerly waiting > for something to reprocess some 8mm video tapes I took with > a Sony camcorder whose capacitors and capstans were weaving > in and out: immediate rewind and playback showed good video > and audio, but playback on other machines fails. I'm hoping to > find something to better digitize and re-stabilize these tapes. When you find it make sure you tell all of us! DaveB NZ From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Fri Oct 18 00:36:01 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: What Is This Connector? Message-ID: <3DAF3A6C.1677.FBDC45E@localhost> Earlier today, I had Mintaka (Cromemco System Two) opened up and had her cards pulled so I could write down an inventory of what all she has in her. I noticed that on the FDC16 floppy controller, there is a wire plugged into a 2 pin connector on the card. The other end of the wire is not connected to anything. Any idea what it is supposed to go to? Here is a picture of the wire and connector in question... http://www.oz.net/~otter/Geekware/What-is-This-Connector-0.JPG I also noticed that the TU-ART card has a similar 2 pin connector, with nothing attached to it. http://www.oz.net/~otter/Geekware/What-is-This-Connector-1.JPG Is that where the other end of the wire is supposed to go? And if so, what about that connector in the middle of the wire? Thanks -- Scarletdown From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Fri Oct 18 00:36:31 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Need Help Identifying Mystery S-100 Card Message-ID: <3DAF3A6C.6012.FBDC646@localhost> If I provide pictures and a descriptions of the various chips, would anyone here be able to help me identify this S-100 card? First, the pictures: http://www.oz.net/~otter/Geekware/Mystery-Board-Front.JPG http://www.oz.net/~otter/Geekware/Mystery-Board-Back.JPG The largest chip is marked: AM9513PC 8148HP (c) 1980 AMD. To the right of the DIP switches are 4 socketed chips... The two smaller ones: F-74LS136PC 7935 Singapore The two larger ones: 74LS244 PC F 8226 Indonesia The other 9 chips, in no particular order... F-74LS368PC 7918 Indonesia SN74LS00n QQ8130 (has Motorola Logo) 74LS02 PC 8221 Singapore F-74LS32PC 8210 Indonesia 435 DM7476N 74LS14 F 8248 Singapore 2630 937 (has Hewlett Packard Logo) 4N26 240F Korea 4N26 231F Korea I'm assuming that this is a homebrew job. But before I make a decision on whether or not to stick it in Mintaka, or sell it, I really would like to know what this card is for. Anyone have any idea? Thanks -- Scarletdown From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Oct 18 00:43:01 2002 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux References: Message-ID: On a somewhat related note, is there a floppy drive make/manufacturer and/or chipset/fdc manufacturer that is more flexible/compatable with odd floppy formats? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 5:24 PM Subject: Reading old disks on Linux > Quite a while ago (and maybe more than once) we had a thread on > reading/writing 'odd' disk formats. I thought about it again, typed a few > words into google, and found this: > > http://fdutils.linux.lu/Fdutils.html#SEC22 From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Fri Oct 18 02:31:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021017191512.02420c78@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021018171302.00b9eb18@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 09:06 AM 17/10/2002 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Do you mean the main chassis had rounded corners? Could it perhaps have >been a Packard Bell? > >http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/BRL61-0740.jpg >http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/pb250.jpg > >That is a picture of a Packard Bell PB250. Here is more info: > >http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/BRL61-p.html#PACKARD-BELL-250 Well we can eliminate these as well (progress for sure). What I was trying to get at (and obviously explaining badly :-) was that the main console for the system was a large desk like affair with lights and switches with either end being either curved or in a curved shape. Using (poor) ASCII art: ---------------------------- / \ / \ / \ / \ As I said, I'm not sure if it had "hard" corners or whether they were rounded off somewhat. I've spent quite some time web browsing and the photos of early Ferranti, Marconi or ICT (ICL) that I've found don't match my recollections. I'm still working on the premise that at that time a UK university would have bought British (and at that time there was probably no good reason not to). For an interesting history of British early Computers have a look at http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/EarlyBritish.html#TOC Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Oct 18 05:20:01 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:12:58 PDT." <3155.4.20.168.142.1034903578.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <200210180819.JAA31585@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Eric Smith" said: > > While we're on the subject, did anyone see the article "Data > > Extinction" in the October 2002 issue of Technology Review? > > Yeah, but I was somewhat disappointed. The cover made it sound like they > would discuss *media* that would last a long time, but they were just > talking about maintaining the ability for software to handle the data. > That's obviously worthwhile, but it's also much easier to figure out: > > 1) Use industry-standard data formats, not proprietary formats > 2) Use text-based formats where possible rather than binary formats 3) > Keep a specification for the format along with that data, ideally > on the same physical medium > 4) Keep the source code for the software that processes the data, > ideally on the same physical medium. Ideally use software written > in a programming language that is widely used, not something > obscure. > 5) Keep the tools used to build the binary of the software. > etc. > > On the media side, though, AFAIK there is only one high-density > machine-readable media that can be expected with any confidence to last > much more than 20 years. That is CD-R with a gold-coated substrate > rather than silver or aluminum. Note that gold-tinted dye is NOT > sufficient. The main failure mechanism for CD-Rs is oxidation of > the reflective layer, and a gold layer won't do that, so then your limit > is based on other physical processes that occur even more slowly. > Kodak's accelerated aging tests indicated a typical life of several > hundred years, so they conservatively claimed one hundred. They used to > have a white paper on their web site. You might also like to search for ISO 18921 which is available on the net as ISO_18921.pdf (can't remember exactly where...) which discusses the life expectancy of CDs in respect of photography - which is why I located a copy. Also the book "Avoiding Technological Quicksnad: Finding a Viable Technical Foundation for Digital Preservation" by Jeff Rothenberg is available online as html. http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/rothenberg/contents.html -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Oct 18 05:23:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021018171302.00b9eb18@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > I've spent quite some time web browsing and the photos of early Ferranti, > Marconi or ICT (ICL) that I've found don't match my recollections. I'm > still working on the premise that at that time a UK university would have > bought British (and at that time there was probably no good reason not to). It wasn't a Lyons' LEO, was it? http://www.leo-computers.org.uk/ -brian. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 18 07:44:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Need Help Identifying Mystery S-100 Card In-Reply-To: <3DAF3A6C.6012.FBDC646@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021018084846.0e578608@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:32 PM 10/17/02 -0700, you wrote: >If I provide pictures and a descriptions of the various chips, would >anyone here be able to help me identify this S-100 card? First, the >pictures: > >http://www.oz.net/~otter/Geekware/Mystery-Board-Front.JPG > >http://www.oz.net/~otter/Geekware/Mystery-Board-Back.JPG > >The largest chip is marked: AM9513PC 8148HP (c) 1980 AMD. Universal Priority Controller. > >To the right of the DIP switches are 4 socketed chips... > >The two smaller ones: F-74LS136PC 7935 Singapore Quad two input X-OR, OC output. >The two larger ones: 74LS244 PC F 8226 Indonesia Octal bus driver with TS outputs. > >The other 9 chips, in no particular order... > >F-74LS368PC 7918 Indonesia Hex Inverter, three state. >SN74LS00n QQ8130 (has Motorola Logo) quad two input Nand. >74LS02 PC 8221 Singapore Quad two input NOR. > >F-74LS32PC 8210 Indonesia Quad two input OR. >435 DM7476N Dual JK Master Slave Flip Flop with Preset and Clear. >74LS14 F 8248 Singapore Hex Schmitt Trigger Inverting. > >2630 937 (has Hewlett Packard Logo) Don't know but I think you're missing a digit. HP PNs should have xxxx-xxxx or zzzzz-zzzzz (4-4 or 5-5) type PNs. >4N26 240F Korea >4N26 231F Korea Opto-couplers. > >I'm assuming that this is a homebrew job. But before I make a >decision on whether or not to stick it in Mintaka, or sell it, I >really would like to know what this card is for. > >Anyone have any idea? Appears to be a digitial IO card. It MAY have digitial outputs but since it has a priority interrupt controller it almost certainly has digitial inputs. The inputs probably genreate interupts to the CPU. Appears to use opto-couplers for isolation. Joe > >Thanks > >-- Scarletdown > > From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Oct 18 07:48:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: <200210180819.JAA31585@citadel.metropolis.local> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021018072525.02524200@pc> At 09:19 AM 10/18/2002 +0100, Stan Barr wrote: >You might also like to search for ISO 18921 which is available on the >net as ISO_18921.pdf (can't remember exactly where...) which discusses >the life expectancy of CDs in respect of photography - which is why I >located a copy. http://www.pima.net/standards/iso/tc42/wg05/ISO_18921/ISO_18921.pdf >Also the book "Avoiding Technological Quicksnad: Finding a Viable >Technical Foundation for Digital Preservation" by Jeff Rothenberg >is available online as html. >http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/rothenberg/contents.html In short, report says "emulation is an answer". Another relevant point in the discussion jumped out at me: all the estimates of theoretical media longevity (be it CD, CD-R or whatever) have nothing to do with the longevity of media *in use*, and that any media in use may tend to fail after only a few years, and this greatly increases the need for media recopying practices, and for schemes of metadata to record info about the info, from digitizing the label on up. - John From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Fri Oct 18 08:48:01 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021018171302.00b9eb18@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <000601c276ac$d7e421e0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Well we can eliminate these as well (progress for sure). What I > was trying > to get at (and obviously explaining badly :-) was that the main > console for > the system was a large desk like affair with lights and switches with > either end being either curved or in a curved shape. Using (poor) > ASCII art: > > > ---------------------------- > / \ > / \ > / \ > / \ > > As I said, I'm not sure if it had "hard" corners or whether they were > rounded off somewhat. > Ah, see the picture on http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/zebra/ about the Stantec Zebra ... does this help? Andy From msspcva at yahoo.com Fri Oct 18 08:53:00 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: OT: Shipping a large, heavy crate In-Reply-To: <2429.4.20.168.157.1034875616.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20021018135455.63349.qmail@web14611.mail.yahoo.com> FWIW: I'm in the process of using freightquote.com's service to do this very thing. I signed up for my corporation but I don't normally ship a large amount of stuff; I have a bunch of older AS/400 gear I'm trying to sell off. I have a pallet of 650 pounds (U.S.), standard sized, quoted to ship from Roanoke to Illionis for $184 with 3 day delivery. On Monday I'll find out if the shipping company (Central Transport International) will pick it up on time; on Thursday or Friday I'll find out if it got destroyed enroute (which is what insurance is for!). I'll post an after-action report once I find out how it went. -- Frank --- Eric Smith wrote: > Robert A. Feldman wrote: > > I need to ship a large, heavy crate (about 30" x > 12" x 72" and around > > 200-250 pounds) in the US. What company would you > recommend? > > Please answer off-list, directly to my email. > > Actually, please DO answer on-list. This > information is of general > interest to many of us. > > > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 18 09:11:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Onyx hunting [ Was Re: Fw: Sign of the times :( ] References: Message-ID: <002501c276a7$e71c4200$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- Lat/Long: N 34.084049 W 118.33212 +AD4- http://www.acme.com/mapper/mapper.cgi?lat+AD0-34.084058+ACY-long+AD0--118.33211+ACY-scale+AD0-10 +ACY-theme+AD0-Image+ACY-width+AD0-3+ACY-height+AD0-2+ACY-dot+AD0-Yes OnTopic: This search is pretty hilarious. The fact that the photo just cuts of the Licence plate is rather funny. Note that the gate may be open to the street only temporarily. OffTopic: Acme Mapper seems to have all the maps that MS Terraserver has, but it gets the LatLong search right, where I found the MS one brain dead, off by over 10 miles on most searches. So: Thanks+ACE- John A. Fight Microsoft Errorism From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Fri Oct 18 09:20:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021018171302.00b9eb18@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021019002357.00b9eb18@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 03:23 AM 18/10/2002 -0700, Brian Chase wrote: >On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > > > I've spent quite some time web browsing and the photos of early Ferranti, > > Marconi or ICT (ICL) that I've found don't match my recollections. I'm > > still working on the premise that at that time a UK university would have > > bought British (and at that time there was probably no good reason not to). > >It wasn't a Lyons' LEO, was it? http://www.leo-computers.org.uk/ Well the photographs of the console could match with a slightly faulty memory. I've had a look at the list of LEO sites and Keele doesn't appear - what's scary are the number of sites here in Melbourne (Australia)! At this stage a LEO would have to be a "possible" but somewhat unlikely choice. I would have thought that a University would buy a "scientific" rather than a "commercial" computer. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Fri Oct 18 09:28:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <000601c276ac$d7e421e0$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021018171302.00b9eb18@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021019002711.00b9eb18@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 02:47 PM 18/10/2002 +0100, Andy Holt wrote: >Ah, see the picture on http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/zebra/ about the >Stantec Zebra ... does this help? Getting closer! This is the style of console I was trying to get at with my ASCII art. The console is taller than my recollections, but this might just be old age. Still, I haven't found any matches when searching for Keele and Zebra. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Oct 18 09:31:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: RICM's ZS-1 Message-ID: Just wandering around the web last night, and I was wondering 'what happened' to RICM's Astronautics ZS-1 ... has it yet been powered up, booted and put through its paces? While I was at Astronautics with Merle, (and everyone else), it looked like a fine machine that would be fun to play around with once it got up and running, and, well, I was just curious if it's been set up and successfully ran any software since it was moved. Pat -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From at258 at osfn.org Fri Oct 18 10:25:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021018171302.00b9eb18@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: The Leo III control desk had some interesting shapes, but I don't think it's what your talking about either. On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > At 09:06 AM 17/10/2002 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > >Do you mean the main chassis had rounded corners? Could it perhaps have > >been a Packard Bell? > > > >http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/BRL61-0740.jpg > >http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/pb250.jpg > > > >That is a picture of a Packard Bell PB250. Here is more info: > > > >http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/BRL61-p.html#PACKARD-BELL-250 > > Well we can eliminate these as well (progress for sure). What I was trying > to get at (and obviously explaining badly :-) was that the main console for > the system was a large desk like affair with lights and switches with > either end being either curved or in a curved shape. Using (poor) ASCII art: > > > ---------------------------- > / \ > / \ > / \ > / \ > > As I said, I'm not sure if it had "hard" corners or whether they were > rounded off somewhat. > > I've spent quite some time web browsing and the photos of early Ferranti, > Marconi or ICT (ICL) that I've found don't match my recollections. I'm > still working on the premise that at that time a UK university would have > bought British (and at that time there was probably no good reason not to). > > For an interesting history of British early Computers have a look at > http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/EarlyBritish.html#TOC > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au > | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > | air, the sky would be painted green" > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Fri Oct 18 10:33:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: RICM's ZS-1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No, Annette is sitting quietly in storage just now. We are working on getting new space, and when that happens she'll come out and be rubbing elbows with the Crays. On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Just wandering around the web last night, and I was wondering 'what > happened' to RICM's Astronautics ZS-1 ... has it yet been powered up, > booted and put through its paces? While I was at Astronautics with Merle, > (and everyone else), it looked like a fine machine that would be fun to > play around with once it got up and running, and, well, I was just curious > if it's been set up and successfully ran any software since it was moved. > > Pat > > -- > "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is > completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" > -- Anonymous > http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From chris at blackwidowguitars.com Fri Oct 18 10:45:00 2002 From: chris at blackwidowguitars.com (Chris Lamrock) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-8 Message-ID: <00c101c276be$c4126980$640aa8c0@chrislamrock> Hi, I have a Heathkit H-8 of which I know nothing about. I am curious to play with this machine a bit but really I don't know where to start. I believe all I have for the H-8 is the computer - the part with the keypad & led display & a bunch of cables. What can I do with this? How can I test to see if it even works? Any ideas where I could go to find more information about it? Thanks all! Chris Lamrock From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Fri Oct 18 11:24:01 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021018171302.00b9eb18@kerberos.davies.net.au> <4.3.2.7.2.20021019002711.00b9eb18@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <3DB0357E.817B6D44@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Huw Davies wrote: > > At 02:47 PM 18/10/2002 +0100, Andy Holt wrote: > > >Ah, see the picture on http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/zebra/ > about the Stantec Zebra ... does this help? > > Getting closer! This is the style of console I was trying to get at > with my ASCII art. The console is taller than my recollections, but > this might just be old age. Still, I haven't found any matches when > searching for Keele and Zebra. When did GEC starting making computers? I know that they had a plant in Stafford, and North Staffs Poly had a blue GEC 4000-series machine when I was there (a lot later than the 60s!) - Paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 18 11:27:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-8 References: <00c101c276be$c4126980$640aa8c0@chrislamrock> Message-ID: <001c01c276c3$40a8cda0$d51ea8c0@kwcorp.com> I have two H8's, they are extremely fun machines. Go to google.com and search, there is a ton of info on the web about these wonderful systems. You should start looking for a floppy drive and a crt right away :) Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Lamrock" To: Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 10:55 AM Subject: Heathkit H-8 > Hi, > > I have a Heathkit H-8 of which I know nothing about. I am curious to play > with this machine a bit but really I don't know where to start. > > I believe all I have for the H-8 is the computer - the part with the keypad > & led display & a bunch of cables. > > What can I do with this? How can I test to see if it even works? Any ideas > where I could go to find more information about it? > > Thanks all! > > Chris Lamrock > > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Fri Oct 18 11:59:00 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <3DB0357E.817B6D44@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: <000901c276c7$960e8a60$4d4d2c0a@atx> > When did GEC starting making computers? I know that they had a plant in > Stafford, and North Staffs Poly had a blue GEC 4000-series machine when > I was there (a lot later than the 60s!) > > - Paul > GEC - in this context - took over the process-control computer part of Elliot Automation. EA's first computer was in (?)1949. The 4000 series computers were a good "real-time" system for their era (but the "Buy British" government policy applied by the Computer Board tried to force these into environments where Unix or VMS systems would have been more appropriate*.) * At a UK University (that those who know me can recognise) we had a massive fight to be able to go "Open Tender" on the replacement of an ICL 1900 series system rather than go single tender for an ICL 2960. The first hurdle was overcome at a high-powered meeting in Euston Towers (ICLs then HQ) where our team met with senior Computer Board members and some of the toughest ICL salesmen ... we knew we had won this battle when the salesmen stopped trying to convince us that the 2960 would do the job and started on "look at the costs of conversion". The next hurdle came when we were told that there had to be a UK company on the shortlist (by this time ICL had declined to tender on the grounds "we've never yet won an open tender and don't see the point of wasting our time"). The only practical UK offer was from GEC so this joined Honeywell, DEC and Prime on the shortlist. We detailed one member of our staff to find out (and point-out) every problem with the GEC so that we could eventually rule them out. For some silly reason (probably connected with their salesmen not being paid commission) DEC really did not try - effectively they gave us a copy of the price book and said "work it out yourself". Honeywell and Prime, however, really did compete. HW eventually offering ?2M worth of kit for ?400K and this did us very well for a few years (until we could buy a more powerful system for less than the maint. cost of the HW). We got a reputation in Honeywell for wanting "everything half price - and if it's free we want two of them" Andy From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Oct 18 12:24:01 2002 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: OT: Clean steel? additional ramblings Message-ID: Sellam Ismail was asking about "clean steel", here is some of what I know/remember from one of the applications that require it. The trace amounts of radioactive "stuff" in the new steel can swamp out the radioactive particle counters on some experiments. There was an experiment at the University of Missouri to look at the muscle/fat percentages in humans and in cows. There was an especially built building made from "old battleship steel" that enclosed the radioactive particle counter. The "experimental subject" was given trace amounts of radioactive potassium which would be incorporated into their muscle. The entire subject was then placed in a whole body detector to determine the percentage of the body mass that was muscle versus fat. I heard that they had gotten the steel from an old sunken ship. may be entirely myth Thanks Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021018/12ef5fd0/attachment.html From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Oct 18 12:45:01 2002 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: OT: Clean steel? more info Message-ID: More info for Sellam http://www.geocities.com/darrenmilford/scuttle.html Bayern as raised in 1933. She fetched a scrap value of ?110,000 nearly half of which was profit. The salvage operations on the various ships started in the early 1920's with most of the ships having been raised by the late 1930's. Since then fragments of ships have been raised and since Hiroshima they remain an important source of quality radioactive free metals necessary for certain types of sensitive scientific instruments http://users.accesscomm.ca/shipwreck/index7.htm Radioactivity in the atmosphere has increased over time with the continual testing of atomic bombs of all types. Steel makers need vast amounts of air to make steel so it would follow that steel made nowadays contains certain amounts of radioactivity. Prior to dropping the first A bomb in 1945, steel was radioactive free, and the only source of this 'clean' steel left lies in pre 1945 wrecks that lie on the seabed. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021018/963cc448/attachment.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 18 14:29:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: uyk-20? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021018153434.11afc296@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have any info on this computer? I've found one at a scrap place and they're supposed to be getting a several more of them in. I pulled some of the cards from this one and they're marked Sperry-Rand. I checked the date codes on some of the ICs and they were all dated 1977. I pulled eight large core memory boards out of this one. Any body know what the memory capacity is on these? Joe From hansp at aconit.org Fri Oct 18 14:41:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: uyk-20? References: <3.0.6.16.20021018153434.11afc296@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DB0643E.4030802@aconit.org> Neat. Are they shippable outside the US? Did you try Google? 04 hits on UKY-20 including some interesting looking links. -- hbp From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Oct 18 14:41:29 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: [OT]: World's Most Dangerous Server Rooms Finally Revealed :-) Message-ID: <023801c276de$aa3f7d20$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi all, Just found this on The Register - thought some of you might be interested. World's Most Dangerous Server Rooms - Finally Revealed! (my title, not theirs) http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/27684.html I like this one [quote] We shall not name the world-renowned North American educational institution in which the server room itself is now out of bounds:- [endquote] I'm not going to spoil the fun by telling you what the sign on the server room door says :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Oct 18 14:55:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: World's Most Dangerous Server Rooms Finally Revealed :-) References: <023801c276de$aa3f7d20$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <024a01c276e0$96b21400$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> BTW, does anyone know where the out-of-bounds server room is? If it's world-renowned, why haven't I heard about it :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Oct 18 14:57:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:29:04 CDT." <5.1.1.6.0.20021018072525.02524200@pc> Message-ID: <200210181947.UAA08364@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, John Foust said: > In short, report says "emulation is an answer". Another relevant > point in the discussion jumped out at me: all the estimates of > theoretical media longevity (be it CD, CD-R or whatever) have > nothing to do with the longevity of media *in use*, and that > any media in use may tend to fail after only a few years, > and this greatly increases the need for media recopying practices, > and for schemes of metadata to record info about the info, > from digitizing the label on up. Also I think we need to preserve information on the way computers were *operated*. There are plenty of people alive now who know how to toggle in a boot loader, for example, but will this sort of info be readily available to historians in 50 years time? One of my other interests is Morse code telegraphy, for which a lot of original early operational data still exists but I've not seen much similar material for early computers. I was reminded of this sort of thing recently when watching a tv program about "pioneer" re-enactors and seeing a woman struggling to use a washboard[1]. Having access to old technology is a different thing to understanding exactly how it was used. [1] Yes I know how to use one properly :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From pietstan at rogers.com Fri Oct 18 17:19:01 2002 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: OT: Clean steel? References: Message-ID: <3DB08901.1050506@rogers.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: <> > and therefore contains no radiation. Apparently, air since the first > atomic bomb test is now filled with background radiation, and because so > much air is used in the smelting process, a lot of the radiation gets into > modern steel making it unsuitable for some applications (such as medical > test equipment where radioactive isotopes are used as part of the > operation). Unless the steel is refined using either the open hearth or the Bessemer process, there is no "air" used at all. Both of these processes were notorious for air pollution problems. More commonly, in the last 40 years or so, steel refining is done using the basic oxygen steel process. Pure oxygen is blown into a brick-lined vessel charged with liquid iron and scrap steel and the impurities burn off at. Alloying elements are added as needed, and the steel is poured off into ladles, and further processed. Electric arc furnaces are also used for specialty steels (stainless comes to mind....) and probably other applications as well. The bottom line is, there are more efficient ways to make steel than to use air to burn off the impurities... Stan From chris at blackwidowguitars.com Fri Oct 18 17:29:00 2002 From: chris at blackwidowguitars.com (Chris Lamrock) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-8 References: <00c101c276be$c4126980$640aa8c0@chrislamrock> <001c01c276c3$40a8cda0$d51ea8c0@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000f01c276f5$f5fd2bb0$0200a8c0@chris> Hi, Thanks for the reply - I was able to get the LED-TEST program entered on the monitor & it runs fine!!!! I see that I have the H8-5 in there. Is a terminal on this machine any good without a floppy drive? There also is a control card in the last slot - it says "CONTROLLER BOARD" on it - is this the floppy controller? Thanks so far! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 12:27 PM Subject: Re: Heathkit H-8 > I have two H8's, they are extremely fun machines. Go to google.com and > search, there is a ton of info on the web about these wonderful systems. > > You should start looking for a floppy drive and a crt right away :) > > Jay West > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Lamrock" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 10:55 AM > Subject: Heathkit H-8 > > > > Hi, > > > > I have a Heathkit H-8 of which I know nothing about. I am curious to play > > with this machine a bit but really I don't know where to start. > > > > I believe all I have for the H-8 is the computer - the part with the > keypad > > & led display & a bunch of cables. > > > > What can I do with this? How can I test to see if it even works? Any > ideas > > where I could go to find more information about it? > > > > Thanks all! > > > > Chris Lamrock > > > > > > > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 18 18:24:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <3DAEFAEB.7217.EC5ACE5@localhost> from "Scarletdown" at Oct 17, 2 06:01:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 312 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021018/8f74f9c4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 18 18:26:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:07 2005 Subject: What Is This Connector? In-Reply-To: <3DAF3A6C.1677.FBDC45E@localhost> from "Scarletdown" at Oct 17, 2 10:32:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 838 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021018/934c2101/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 18 18:27:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: <200210181947.UAA08364@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Oct 18, 2 08:47:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 919 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021018/d341d176/attachment.ksh From blacklord at telstra.com Fri Oct 18 18:53:00 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision References: Message-ID: <017101c27701$ce49f060$0500a8c0@lance> Hi Tony, > Just out of curiousity, how many other people here name their classic > computers (for reasons other than giving them a network address) My original Commodore XT was called "Slug", my Commodore PC 40 was calleed "Slug II", it's kinda stuck - the cuurnt machine (2 GHz AMD) is called "Slug VII". Oh yeah, "Slug" still chugs along too :-) Back then, I had an A1000 ("Amy" - so original!) & "Slug", she was called that because the A1000 was soooo much faster. Nowadays Slug VII does a good job emulating Amy several times faster than she ever ran. Mind you, Amy still gets fired up so I can play my all time favourite Monopoly game written in ABasiC :-) The Linux server is called "Bag Lady" - most of her (recycled) components came to me in a canvas bag..... cheers, Lance --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 4/10/2002 From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Oct 18 18:54:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? Message-ID: <200210182355.QAA26552@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Joe You might let these folks know about these. They have a need for one of these: http://www.qsl.net/bb62/wishlist.html Later Dwight >From: Joe > > Does anyone have any info on this computer? I've found one at a scrap place and they're supposed to be getting a several more of them in. I pulled some of the cards from this one and they're marked Sperry-Rand. I checked the date codes on some of the ICs and they were all dated 1977. I pulled eight large core memory boards out of this one. Any body know what the memory capacity is on these? > > Joe > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 18 19:01:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: <3DB0643E.4030802@aconit.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20021018153434.11afc296@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021018200447.4eafa64e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I seriously doubt you'd want to pay for the shipping! These are built like a safe with ~3/4" aluminium plate and are roughly 28" cube. I think the weight is roughly 160 pounds each! Seriously, these are ex-military so I have my doubts about being able to ship them outside the US. At 09:42 PM 10/18/02 +0200, you wrote: >Neat. Are they shippable outside the US? > >Did you try Google? 04 hits on UKY-20 including some interesting looking >links. I found lots of resumes from people that have used them and descriptions of ships, submarines, etc where they were used but no real details about them. I did find one site that indicated that they're repackaged Univac 505s, whatever that is! I searched on that and found very little. Joe > > -- hbp > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 18 19:05:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Oct 18, 2002 11:42:16 PM Message-ID: <200210190006.g9J06rq24627@shell1.aracnet.com> > Just out of curiousity, how many other people here name their classic > computers (for reasons other than giving them a network address) > > -tony Personally the only computers I give names to are ones on my network (of course basically every system I have setup is networked). I've reached the point though where the name is likely to simply reflect what kind of hardware the host is. Other times the name might be what it was prior to my getting it. Zane From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Oct 18 19:14:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021018200447.4eafa64e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Joe wrote: > I seriously doubt you'd want to pay for the shipping! These are built > like a safe with ~3/4" aluminium plate and are roughly 28" cube. I think the > weight is roughly 160 pounds each! > > Seriously, these are ex-military so I have my doubts about being able to > ship them outside the US. > > At 09:42 PM 10/18/02 +0200, you wrote: > >Neat. Are they shippable outside the US? > > > >Did you try Google? 04 hits on UKY-20 including some interesting looking > >links. > > I found lots of resumes from people that have used them and descriptions > of ships, submarines, etc where they were used but no real details about > them. I did find one site that indicated that they're repackaged Univac > 505s, whatever that is! I searched on that and found very little. They look pretty interesting! One of the pictures I Googled shows a programmers console (with blinkenlights) in the door. From the lights I would guess its a 16 bit mini... If there end up being several, I would be very interesed in one... > > Joe > > > > > -- hbp > > > > > > > > > > > Peter Wallace From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 18 19:14:43 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? Message-ID: HELL YEAH! AN/UYK-20 BABY! *consults my data files* Other than that its a Univac (obviously), and 16-bit, I don't know much about it... They were used in a few different cool things, for example the original AEGIS system.. I'd love to have one... and know at least one other person that'd probably want one.. how much? heh Will J _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Oct 18 19:18:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision Message-ID: <200210190019.RAA26560@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Zane H. Healy" > >> Just out of curiousity, how many other people here name their classic >> computers (for reasons other than giving them a network address) >> >> -tony > >Personally the only computers I give names to are ones on my network (of >course basically every system I have setup is networked). I've reached the >point though where the name is likely to simply reflect what kind of hardware >the host is. Other times the name might be what it was prior to my getting >it. > > Zane > Hi I have one at work I call "Piece of Sh*t". Does that count as naming? Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 18 19:20:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: <200210182355.QAA26552@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021018202201.489f35b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dwight, Excellant suggestion! My father is also interested in disposing of his Teletype systems and they're looking for some of those too so I might be able to load them up. Joe At 04:55 PM 10/18/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi Joe > You might let these folks know about these. They >have a need for one of these: > >http://www.qsl.net/bb62/wishlist.html > >Later >Dwight > > >>From: Joe >> >> Does anyone have any info on this computer? I've found one at a scrap place >and they're supposed to be getting a several more of them in. I pulled some of >the cards from this one and they're marked Sperry-Rand. I checked the date codes >on some of the ICs and they were all dated 1977. I pulled eight large core >memory boards out of this one. Any body know what the memory capacity is on >these? >> >> Joe >> >> >> > > > From patrick at evocative.com Fri Oct 18 19:23:01 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Just out of curiousity, how many other people here name their classic > computers (for reasons other than giving them a network address) My wife has named for all of them, and one for me, too, when I'm messing with them. They're a little unflattering to share, though... ;) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 18 19:31:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20021018200447.4eafa64e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021018203603.21478876@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:15 PM 10/18/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Joe wrote: > >> I seriously doubt you'd want to pay for the shipping! These are built >> like a safe with ~3/4" aluminium plate and are roughly 28" cube. I think the >> weight is roughly 160 pounds each! >> >> Seriously, these are ex-military so I have my doubts about being able to >> ship them outside the US. >> >> At 09:42 PM 10/18/02 +0200, you wrote: >> >Neat. Are they shippable outside the US? >> > >> >Did you try Google? 04 hits on UKY-20 including some interesting looking >> >links. >> >> I found lots of resumes from people that have used them and descriptions >> of ships, submarines, etc where they were used but no real details about >> them. I did find one site that indicated that they're repackaged Univac >> 505s, whatever that is! I searched on that and found very little. > > They look pretty interesting! One of the pictures I Googled shows a >programmers console (with blinkenlights) in the door. From the lights I would >guess its a 16 bit mini... To tell the truth I didn't even count the bits on the programmer's panel (shamefaced). But they do have a PP inside the front cover. I had planned on going back and getting that later. The picture in this link of the radio room of the USS Missouri shows a UYK-20 in the center of the picture. It's the unit setting on what looks like a three drawer filling cabinet and it has the red panel on the front. Just below that red panel you can see a black panel. That's part of the PP. The outside has fues, error lights etc. If you open the front of the chaasis, the upper half of it is covered with the PP. The lower half is covered with an air filter. The filter is directly behind the louvers that you see on the front. > >If there end up being several, I would be very interesed in one... OK. I haven't seen the others yet so I'm not sure exactly what they are. One person told me that they're the same but another says that they're not exactly the same so I have to wait and see. Joe > >> >> Joe >> >> > >> > -- hbp >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> > >Peter Wallace > > From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Oct 18 19:33:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > They look pretty interesting! One of the pictures I Googled shows a > programmers console (with blinkenlights) in the door. From the lights I would > guess its a 16 bit mini... Most AN/UYKs are Univacs of some sort. I think the AN/UYK-20 was replaced by the AN/UYK-44 in Naval service. It is likely that these -20s were used in fire control duties, or possibly for target designation. > If there end up being several, I would be very interesed in one... I would also be interested in one of these machines. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Oct 18 19:38:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Oct 18, 2 11:42:16 pm" Message-ID: <200210190048.RAA10924@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > After much pondering and debate, I have finally decided on a name for > > my Cromemco System Two. Once she is operational, she shall be > > christened as Mintaka. > > Just out of curiousity, how many other people here name their classic > computers (for reasons other than giving them a network address) *raises hand* Some highlights: the C64 is Jack, the Plus/4 is Dave (after Dave Haynie), the C128 is Fish and the C128DCR is Bil. (All named after Commodore designers/ management). The PC-20-III is Irving; the PET 2001-16B is Leonard (after Leonard Tramiel); and the Amiga 500 is, naturally, Lorraine. Oh, and the VIC-20 is ... Victor. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: Travel is important today. The IRS will arrive tomorrow. ---------- From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Oct 18 19:43:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021018203603.21478876@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > To tell the truth I didn't even count the bits on the programmer's > panel (shamefaced). But they do have a PP inside the front cover. I had > planned on going back and getting that later. The picture in this link > of the radio room of the USS Missouri > shows a UYK-20 in the center of the picture. Nice picture. And message traffic...hmmm... > OK. I haven't seen the others yet so I'm not sure exactly what they > are. One person told me that they're the same but another says that > they're not exactly the same so I have to wait and see. Maybe upgrade models? Please keep us informed. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Oct 18 19:49:01 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <200210190019.RAA26560@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > I have one at work I call "Piece of Sh*t". Hey, I use that same name for whichever computer has decided to cross me by failing in some mysterious way that will take days to figure out. Sort of like "Air Force One" is whichever aircraft the president is in. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 18 20:04:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021018204816.42d79be0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just read further down the USS Missouri website and they have a picture of the UYK-20 with the front panel open you can clearly see the programmer's panel. It's at and about 1/3 of the way down the page. At 08:35 PM 10/18/02 -0400, you wrote: >> They look pretty interesting! One of the pictures I Googled shows a >> programmers console (with blinkenlights) in the door. From the lights I would >> guess its a 16 bit mini... > >Most AN/UYKs are Univacs of some sort. I think the AN/UYK-20 was replaced >by the AN/UYK-44 in Naval service. Close, the AN/UYK-43 replaced the UYK-7s and UYK-20s. > >It is likely that these -20s were used in fire control duties, or >possibly for target designation. According to the hits that I got when I did a Google search they were used for fire control for some gun systems including the 5" guns. They were also used for the AEGIS system which IIRC is an anti-ship missile. They were also used as part of the radio systems and I think for some other systems. > >> If there end up being several, I would be very interesed in one... > >I would also be interested in one of these machines. Sounds like I better grab all of them that I can get! Joe > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 18 20:09:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Oct 18, 2002 08:35:10 PM Message-ID: <200210190110.g9J1Ama27228@shell1.aracnet.com> > > programmers console (with blinkenlights) in the door. From the lights I would > > guess its a 16 bit mini... > > Most AN/UYKs are Univacs of some sort. I think the AN/UYK-20 was replaced > by the AN/UYK-44 in Naval service. IIRC, a AN/UYK-7 is a Univac I know for a fact that a AN/UYK-62 (aka SNAP II) is a Harris Minicomputer (I believe, either a H500 or H550). I'd love one of these, as it was the first *real* computer I spent any time with (prior to it, I'd only really used a VIC-20). Though I'd rather have a Civilian model, as it would probably take up less room :^) Zane From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Oct 18 20:14:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: <200210190110.g9J1Ama27228@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > IIRC, a AN/UYK-7 is a Univac Very correctly. I do not know if they were ever second sourced. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 18 21:12:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: Exxon Qyx Typewriter thingy Message-ID: So what is an Exxon Qyx good for? Other than as a typewriter? I just found one in my garage (I swear if I dig a bit further, I will find the Ark of the Covenant in there). I found the manuals and software, but I can't yet get to them (really REALLY big pile of gondola shelves are in the way, and I have to move a fridge to get the shelves out... ). I'm trying to decide if I should haul this out for my garage sale this weekend, or hang on to it. The fact that it is a typewriter with a floppy drive is interesting enough in its own right that I might keep it... but that pack rat mentality is what got everything so burried in the first place (something I am sure just about everyone here is familiar with). Is this just an old word processor, or can you do something more interesting with it? -chris From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Oct 18 21:22:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: Exxon Qyx Typewriter thingy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "I swear if I dig a bit further, I will find the Ark of the Covenant in there." When you come across the CDC Pegasus, post some pictures. I played with one of those for a few months, but I remember very little about them. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of chris Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 22:14 To: Classic Computer Subject: Exxon Qyx Typewriter thingy So what is an Exxon Qyx good for? Other than as a typewriter? I just found one in my garage (I swear if I dig a bit further, I will find the Ark of the Covenant in there). I found the manuals and software, but I can't yet get to them (really REALLY big pile of gondola shelves are in the way, and I have to move a fridge to get the shelves out... ). I'm trying to decide if I should haul this out for my garage sale this weekend, or hang on to it. The fact that it is a typewriter with a floppy drive is interesting enough in its own right that I might keep it... but that pack rat mentality is what got everything so burried in the first place (something I am sure just about everyone here is familiar with). Is this just an old word processor, or can you do something more interesting with it? -chris From mhscc at canada.com Fri Oct 18 22:01:00 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (MHStein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: What Is This Connector? Message-ID: <000301c2771c$243f19e0$08651dd1@msed03> Priority Interrupt chain. Should go from 16FDC OUT to TU-ART IN. Note that the pins on the 4/16/64FDC are the opposite of all other cards, so the cable connects to the same side pin on both boards (away from the edge of the card). The extra wire is in case you have another board requiring connection to the interrupt chain, e.g. a PRI printer interface; if all you have is the TU-ART, just leave it dangling: __+ +_____________ 16FDC | | __+ +_____________TU-ART | | If you have a WDI type hard disk controller with a connector, do NOT connect to it; they have a separate interrupt chain. Good luck; nice to see someone actually bringing a Cromemco back to life. Which model System 2 BTW? Sounds like a CS-2, dual TM100 floppies, full width 21 slot backplane, no internal HD? So, what other cards were in there? Got any software/OS for it? mike -------------Original Message------------- Message: 42 From: "Scarletdown" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:32:12 -0700 Subject: What Is This Connector? Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Earlier today, I had Mintaka (Cromemco System Two) opened up and had her cards pulled so I could write down an inventory of what all she has in her. I noticed that on the FDC16 floppy controller, there is a wire plugged into a 2 pin connector on the card. The other end of the wire is not connected to anything. Any idea what it is supposed to go to? ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com From donm at cts.com Fri Oct 18 23:05:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021018203603.21478876@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Joe wrote: > At 05:15 PM 10/18/02 -0700, you wrote: > >On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Joe wrote: > > > >> I seriously doubt you'd want to pay for the shipping! These are built > >> like a safe with ~3/4" aluminium plate and are roughly 28" cube. I think the > >> weight is roughly 160 pounds each! > >> > >> Seriously, these are ex-military so I have my doubts about being able to > >> ship them outside the US. > >> > >> At 09:42 PM 10/18/02 +0200, you wrote: > >> >Neat. Are they shippable outside the US? > >> > > >> >Did you try Google? 04 hits on UKY-20 including some interesting looking > >> >links. > >> > >> I found lots of resumes from people that have used them and descriptions > >> of ships, submarines, etc where they were used but no real details about > >> them. I did find one site that indicated that they're repackaged Univac > >> 505s, whatever that is! I searched on that and found very little. > > > > They look pretty interesting! One of the pictures I Googled shows a > >programmers console (with blinkenlights) in the door. From the lights I would > >guess its a 16 bit mini... > > To tell the truth I didn't even count the bits on the programmer's panel (shamefaced). But they do have a PP inside the front cover. I had planned on going back and getting that later. The picture in this link of the radio room of the USS Missouri shows a UYK-20 in the center of the picture. It's the unit setting on what looks like a three drawer filling cabinet and it has the red panel on the front. Just below that red panel you can see a black panel. That's part of the PP. The outside has fues, error lights etc. If you open the front of the chaasis, the upper half of it is covered with the PP. The lower half is covered with an air filter. The filter is directly behind the louvers that you see on the front. > > > > > >If there end up being several, I would be very interesed in one... > > OK. I haven't seen the others yet so I'm not sure exactly what > they are. One person told me that they're the same but another says > that they're not exactly the same so I have to wait and see. Joe, I would think that they should be turning up in increasing numbers now. When I was working in the Naval Ordnance game in the '60s & '70s they were the 'bandaid' of choice. Whenever they needed some computer power in an area or function they nailed a UYK-20 to a bulkhead and went merrily on their way. So at 30+ years, they have doubtless been superceded by bigger(smaller?) and better UYKs. - don > Joe > > > > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> > > >> > -- hbp > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > >Peter Wallace > > > > > > > From glenslick at hotmail.com Sat Oct 19 01:59:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: HP 2647A / F Terminal Message-ID: I just received an HP 2647F terminal along with two 13272A 5.25" drives and cables plus a 02640-60043 modem cable and a 02640-60266 HPIB cable, but no manuals. Physically it all looks pretty good, no broken or missing keys and no screen burn or mold, and I figured out how to format floppies and create some files on them and the floppies seem to work ok. I figured out how to open the unit and looked at the boards inside and was slightly disappointed to find that the CPU is an 8085 instead of more cool 8080. This unit has a 1982 date. A couple of questions: I found some references on the web that the 2647A/F supports BASIC. Is that true? Is it in ROM, or does it need to be loaded from tape or disc? If it is in ROM I haven't been able to figure out how to get at it. Is the HPIB cable used just for connecting to printers, or can it be connected to other things? What's the difference between a 2647A and a 2647F? -Glen _________________________________________________________________ Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sat Oct 19 02:45:00 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: Any significance? References: Message-ID: <013001c27743$b968c300$0101a8c0@athlon> Had these brought to my attention a few days back-I think they have been sitting there for several weeks. http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/editwriter.JPG They are/were Compugraphics Editwriter 7300 systems- while I have pretty much decided these are of no significance historically (basically a dedicated word processor as I understand) and therefore I will NOT go 'rescue' even one of them- has anyone a contrary view? Or any further info to contribute about 'em? Dave Brown Christchurch New Zealand From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sat Oct 19 03:34:01 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: ASR33 linefeed problems... Message-ID: <3DAA818C000D7C9E@mta3n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) After a whole day of finetuning my ASR linefeed pawl stops, I still cannot get it to produce a reliable linefeed. Most of the time I get nothing ,or a half line, sometimes it feeds at each character. Is there any secret to this mechanism ? The ASR manual is not a great help, as it does not mention anything besides the pawls'and their stops. Jos Dreesen From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Oct 19 04:53:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:10:32 BST." Message-ID: <200210190733.IAA01107@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > Also, many of us remember filling in a coding form, then either punching > a card deck or having one punched, then handing it to the operator, then > coming back to collect the output (normally error messages :-)). I wonder > if people will even rememebr that went on in, say, 50 years time. I used to have to fill out coding forms, put them in the internal mail with a run request and get a printout in the mail a day or so later. It made debugging somewhat slow :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Oct 19 06:09:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: Stan Barr "Re: [OT] paper on Retro ?" (Oct 19, 8:33) References: <200210190733.IAA01107@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <10210191155.ZM5877@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 19, 8:33, Stan Barr wrote: > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > > > Also, many of us remember filling in a coding form, then either punching > > a card deck or having one punched, then handing it to the operator, then > > coming back to collect the output (normally error messages :-)). I wonder > > if people will even rememebr that went on in, say, 50 years time. > > I used to have to fill out coding forms, put them in the internal mail > with a run request and get a printout in the mail a day or so later. > It made debugging somewhat slow :-) At school (secondary school, I suppose that's high school for Americans), we used to fill out FORTRAN (even though we were writing ALGOL) coding forms and hand them in, and get them back a week later. It taught the value of dry-running a program :-) When I worked at Edinburgh University in the mid-70's, our research unit had punch operators who'd punch the cards, and I'd take the boxes up the road about 3/4 mile and hand them in. Then they'd sit in a queue until the operator fed them in, and we'd get the printout back later that day (usually). I must have handled hundreds of thousands of punch cards, but now I all I have are three empty metal trays and one card (and I only have the card because someone sent it to me with a note on it a while ago). Can anyone remember how many IBM cards fit in a box? A card is nominally 8 thou thick, and a tray is about 16.5" long internally, so it must be something of the order of 2000. Who remembers drawing a cross or a diagonal line on the top of the card deck, so you had some chance of re-ordering the deck if someone dropped the box? Who remembers using a folded card (16 thou) to check the points on their engine (nominally 15 thou)? Folded in three to check the spark plug gap (nominally 25 thou)?? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 19 08:43:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision References: Message-ID: <3DB16278.6010905@tiac.net> I have to confess to this rather strange behavior. My first really classic machine, a HP2114A, had a sticker on its front panel that has apparently been left there by some vistor on an ancient tour. It read 'Hi, I'm Henry', so that machine became known as Henry, and most all of my subsequent HP machines got related names (like my first 2116 becaome O'Henry, etc.). The one exception to this rule was my first 2113, apparently inhabited by gremlins, earned the name 'Demon Child'. But now that I have a small pile of spare CPU's, I've stopped naming them. Tony Duell wrote: >>After much pondering and debate, I have finally decided on a name for >>my Cromemco System Two. Once she is operational, she shall be >>christened as Mintaka. >> > >Just out of curiousity, how many other people here name their classic >computers (for reasons other than giving them a network address) > >-tony > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021019/cdae23ca/attachment.html From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 19 08:44:14 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision References: Message-ID: <3DB16280.9010203@tiac.net> I have to confess to this rather strange behavior. My first really classic machine, a HP2114A, had a sticker on its front panel that has apparently been left there by some vistor on an ancient tour. It read 'Hi, I'm Henry', so that machine became known as Henry, and most all of my subsequent HP machines got related names (like my first 2116 becaome O'Henry, etc.). The one exception to this rule was my first 2113, apparently inhabited by gremlins, earned the name 'Demon Child'. But now that I have a small pile of spare CPU's, I've stopped naming them. Tony Duell wrote: >>After much pondering and debate, I have finally decided on a name for >>my Cromemco System Two. Once she is operational, she shall be >>christened as Mintaka. >> > >Just out of curiousity, how many other people here name their classic >computers (for reasons other than giving them a network address) > >-tony > From jss at subatomix.com Sat Oct 19 09:29:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: Any significance? In-Reply-To: <013001c27743$b968c300$0101a8c0@athlon> References: <013001c27743$b968c300$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <18752753185.20021019093053@subatomix.com> On Saturday, October 19, 2002, Dave Brown wrote: > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/editwriter.JPG > no significance historically (basically a dedicated word processor as I > understand) and therefore I will NOT go 'rescue' even one of them Well, they *look* cool. And I think it's unlikely that they can't be hacked to run arbitrary programs. Where are they? -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sat Oct 19 09:32:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021018202201.489f35b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021018202201.489f35b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16952935196.20021019093355@subatomix.com> On Friday, October 18, 2002, Joe wrote: > Excellant suggestion! My father is also interested in disposing of his > Teletype systems and they're looking for some of those too so I might be > able to load them up. Oh boy, you're gonna get a few responses here saying *that*! I need a Teletype for my PDP-11/20. And, since I just found out I was getting hired, I might actually have money in a month or two. How many TTYs do you have, and where are they? -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sat Oct 19 09:36:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <200210190006.g9J06rq24627@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200210190006.g9J06rq24627@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <9753165648.20021019093745@subatomix.com> All my machines get named after famous TV/movie computers. My laptop is Ziggy (Quantum Leap), the big PC is Wopr (Wargames), another is Hal (2001:ASO), one with lots of spinning fans is Maximilian (The Black Hole), etc. -- Jeffrey Sharp From vaxman at earthlink.net Sat Oct 19 10:10:01 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Clean steel? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Unfortunately, the only way to recycle steel is to feed it back into the blast furnace, thereby contaminating it... clint On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote: > Googling doesn't turn up many hits, but I found two (both related to ships): > > www.liddiard.demon.co.uk/photoix/brittany/kleber.htm and > www.hazegray.org/faq/smn7.htm > > Given so few hits, maybe is is an urban legend. Then again, some > applications might require steel without the slight radiation that > blast-furnace smelting might add. The mixing in of contaminated scrap is a > different (and very real) issue from air-blast introduced low-level > radioactivity. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kapteyn, Rob [mailto:kapteynr@cboe.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:09 PM > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Clean steel? > > > My understanding of this: > > "Unclean" steel is not radioactive because of the A-bomb tests (although we > are all being exposed to roughly 3 times "natural" background radiation > because of those tests. > > There have been several very expensive mistakes in which highly radioactive > contaminants got mixed in with scrap metal going to smelters. Some of > these were not detected until toys and table legs made from the scrap were > being shipped to consumers. > > About 40% of our steel comes from recycled scrap. > This scrap always seems to pick up some radioactive contamination. > The 60% of steel made from virgin ore is "clean". > Your 1930's scrap is still scrap -- not virgin ore. > > The EPA has a new program to address this problem: > http://www.epa.gov/radiation/cleanmetals/ > > -Rob > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 10:51 AM > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: OT: Clean steel? > > > > There are two rooms in the ACCRC building that are filled with huge old > (useless) refrigeration systems. Tons of steel. We'd like to get the > rooms cleared out so we can use them. > > We've gotten quotes in the past but all of them will end up costing us to > remove the equipment since the rooms are enclosed and one of them is down > a ladder with a narrow door. Everything will need to be cut up and > removed piece-meal. There is also some very large equipment on the roof > that will need a crane to remove. > > A while back we had a brief discussion about "clean steel". "Clean steel" > is supposedly steel that was smelted before the first atomic bomb tests, > and therefore contains no radiation. Apparently, air since the first > atomic bomb test is now filled with background radiation, and because so > much air is used in the smelting process, a lot of the radiation gets into > modern steel making it unsuitable for some applications (such as medical > test equipment where radioactive isotopes are used as part of the > operation). > > I was thinking that because this building is so old (from the 1930s) that > a lot of the steel in those rooms is "clean". > > I called a scrapper yesterday who has been in the business for 30+ years > and is a Harvard graduate, and he said he has never, ever heard of "clean > steel". > > So what gives? Is there a government website somewhere that defines > "clean steel"? > > I'm hoping that the steel is actually worth enough to make it a wash to > have it removed. As it stands, the quote I have so far is that we have > $25/ton worth of steel and $30/ton to salvage it. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com > * > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Oct 19 10:24:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Clean steel? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > Unfortunately, the only way to recycle steel is to feed it back > into the blast furnace, thereby contaminating it... As I understand it, instrument-makers don't recycle the steel. They machine parts directly from the scrap. Doc From foo at siconic.com Sat Oct 19 10:50:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: <200210181947.UAA08364@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Stan Barr wrote: > Also I think we need to preserve information on the way computers > were *operated*. There are plenty of people alive now who know how > to toggle in a boot loader, for example, but will this sort of > info be readily available to historians in 50 years time? Probably, thanks in part to this mailing list (providing it is archived on a durable medium ;) > One of my other interests is Morse code telegraphy, for which a lot > of original early operational data still exists but I've not seen > much similar material for early computers. That's why I'm building and maintaining such a large archive of manuals, and why folks like Al Kossow are furiously scanning tens of thousands of manual pages. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Oct 19 10:56:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <200210190019.RAA26560@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I have one at work I call "Piece of Sh*t". > Does that count as naming? And I'll bet it runs some version of Windows. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Oct 19 11:03:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: <10210191155.ZM5877@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Can anyone remember how many IBM cards fit in a box? A card is nominally 8 > thou thick, and a tray is about 16.5" long internally, so it must be > something of the order of 2000. That is correct. > Who remembers drawing a cross or a diagonal line on the top of the card > deck, so you had some chance of re-ordering the deck if someone dropped the > box? Before my time but I've heard the anecdote. > Who remembers using a folded card (16 thou) to check the points on their > engine (nominally 15 thou)? Folded in three to check the spark plug gap > (nominally 25 thou)?? I used a folded punch card to clean the relay contacts on my IBM 026 punch under the tutelage of Mr. John Lawson. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Oct 19 11:07:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: EditWriters in New Zealand Message-ID: I deleted the original message that pointed me to this picture: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/editwriter.JPG ...but I would say that these are definitely worth saving. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Oct 19 11:09:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: Naming of Systems Message-ID: I was default sysop of a pair of Sydis voice-phone-data Unix systems back when I was a product manager at a Large Non-Bell California Phone Company. I called 'em Godzilla and Rodan. Not uncommon to get a phone call : "Hey, I think Godzilla just puked.." Earlier, (speaking of Molecular Computers) we sold two of them to a company who did insurance back-office processing. Their resident Geeks named them Pokey and Gumby, and when a user logged into the system, an ASCII-art graphic of the relevant character was displayed on the splash-screen. None of the above machines were made from Pre-Bomb Steel, BTW. Cheers John From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Oct 19 11:12:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: [snippage] > > engine (nominally 15 thou)? Folded in three to check the spark plug gap > > (nominally 25 thou)?? > > I used a folded punch card to clean the relay contacts on my IBM 026 punch > under the tutelage of Mr. John Lawson. You forgot the "dipped in lighter fluid" part.... The benzene cuts thru the crud and the rough cardboard burnishes the contact surfaces. ;} Cheerz John From menadeau at attbi.com Sat Oct 19 11:18:01 2002 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: Any significance? References: <013001c27743$b968c300$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <00ac01c2778b$078f8180$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Editwriters were commonly used as newspaper production systems, and they were among the first dedicated electronic publishing systems. I used them in the late 1970s and early 1980s, but I don't remember what they have for a processor or an operating system. I would guess a Z80. I do know that they used SGML to mark up text. What your photo shows is the input system. The output was a unit with rolls of photo-sensitive paper that went through a very messy chemical bath. Headlines and larger text for ads were done on yet another unit that printed out the text on photo-sensitive paper strips, like a ticker tape. It was a crude publishing system by today's standards, but way better than casting hot lead. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Brown" To: Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 3:47 AM Subject: Any significance? > Had these brought to my attention a few days back-I think they have been > sitting there for several weeks. > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/editwriter.JPG > > They are/were Compugraphics Editwriter 7300 systems- while I have pretty > much decided these are of no significance historically (basically a > dedicated word processor as I understand) and therefore I will NOT go > 'rescue' even one of them- has anyone a contrary view? Or any further info > to contribute about 'em? > > Dave Brown > Christchurch > New Zealand > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Oct 19 11:23:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? References: Message-ID: <009701c2778c$db4d53c0$95010240@default> I remember punching all my programs on cards and then marking the cards with a large X to get them in straight. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [OT] paper on Retro ? > On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > Can anyone remember how many IBM cards fit in a box? A card is nominally 8 > > thou thick, and a tray is about 16.5" long internally, so it must be > > something of the order of 2000. > > That is correct. > > > Who remembers drawing a cross or a diagonal line on the top of the card > > deck, so you had some chance of re-ordering the deck if someone dropped the > > box? > > Before my time but I've heard the anecdote. > > > Who remembers using a folded card (16 thou) to check the points on their > > engine (nominally 15 thou)? Folded in three to check the spark plug gap > > (nominally 25 thou)?? > > I used a folded punch card to clean the relay contacts on my IBM 026 punch > under the tutelage of Mr. John Lawson. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Oct 19 11:56:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: Any significance? In-Reply-To: <013001c27743$b968c300$0101a8c0@athlon> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021019124921.02a55e40@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Dave Brown may have mentioned these words: >Had these brought to my attention a few days back-I think they have been >sitting there for several weeks. > >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/editwriter.JPG > > They are/were Compugraphics Editwriter 7300 systems- while I have pretty > much decided these are of no significance historically (basically a > dedicated word processor as I understand) and therefore I will NOT go > 'rescue' even one of them- has anyone a contrary view? Or any further > info to contribute about 'em? I don't know a ton about these things, but having spent 3 years as a graphic artist at a printshop, I can definately tell you these are *not* word processors -- they're typesetters. Input was with a keyboard, for sure - but it has a dedicated program using commands similar to today's HTML, but designed for text layout -- to change point size was , to change a font was & many other commands. [[ the systems I used were the Compugraphic PowerView 10 (mostly) and 5 (sometimes) -- these were special machines running on an 80186 and booted from floppy. (There might have been a hard drive interface for 'em, but you wouldn't wanna see the price!!!) They had up to 1 Meg of RAM, and the OS/Main Program took *most* of it -- I only had about 23K of text/code entry [Methinks the codes were tokenized] and altho there were some very basic looping commands, it wasn't hard to use up whatever stack space was allocated. ]] Output was to special B&W photographic paper, and on the lower end systems the "graphics processor" was a belt or disk with each individual font character on it, which a bright light was shown thru, and lens systems changed the size of each character as needed. These things were *noisy*! (I used the Compugraphic 8016 output unit -- big, noisy ancient behemoth, which you had a maximum of 16 fonts (including line drawing, if you had it) on a mylar disk. I think the metrics were a seperate "barcode" to tell the machine how much room each character took. These disks needed weekly (or more) cleaning, and if you had a light/clear spot on the disk, it had to be fixed or else they were useless... Later in life, I used a [brainfreeze on the model number] output unit that did everything with a CRT to create the characters, lenses to change the size, and fonts & metrics were all on floppy. IIRC, on the later unit, the output was somewhere in the 2400DPI range. (this back when lasers barely made 300dpi, and Canon's bubblejet was just getting up to 180x360 dpi...) HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sat Oct 19 12:32:00 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: Question about Sharp PC4500 and IBM basic Message-ID: <20021019173410.GTKA25809.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Can anyone here shed some more light on the sharp PC4500, the IBM basic question? ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Thank you for your reply. I have a Sharp laptop PC4500 that still works. I don't have a manual for it, and am curious about the unit. There are two expansion slots inside the unit. I was wondering if I can use a mouse with it, but there aren't any ports for a mouse. It has two parallel port connectors only on the outside of the unit. Also, I am looking for an IBM unit with the BASIC code in the ROM. I have a game written in BASIC dating from about 1984 that won't work with GWBASIC. I am curious whether it actually works on an actual IBM (i.e. not clone) unit. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 19 13:24:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: Any significance? In-Reply-To: <013001c27743$b968c300$0101a8c0@athlon> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021019141929.46a7d422@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> FWIW I've been told that the Compugraphics machines were type setters. It might be a good source of parts. Joe At 08:47 PM 10/19/02 +1300, you wrote: >Had these brought to my attention a few days back-I think they have been >sitting there for several weeks. > >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tractorb/editwriter.JPG > > They are/were Compugraphics Editwriter 7300 systems- while I have pretty >much decided these are of no significance historically (basically a >dedicated word processor as I understand) and therefore I will NOT go >'rescue' even one of them- has anyone a contrary view? Or any further info >to contribute about 'em? > >Dave Brown >Christchurch >New Zealand > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 19 13:24:53 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: <16952935196.20021019093355@subatomix.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021018202201.489f35b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021018202201.489f35b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021019142553.46a70cc2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:33 AM 10/19/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Friday, October 18, 2002, Joe wrote: >> Excellant suggestion! My father is also interested in disposing of his >> Teletype systems and they're looking for some of those too so I might be >> able to load them up. > >Oh boy, you're gonna get a few responses here saying *that*! I need a >Teletype for my PDP-11/20. And, since I just found out I was getting hired, >I might actually have money in a month or two. > >How many TTYs do you have, and where are they? They're not mine, they're my father's so it's up to him about what he does with them but I expect $$$ are always welcome. I think he has four complete units and the guts for another. I'm pretty sure that there is an ASR-33 and a KSR-33 but I don't know what the others are. I'm trying to get him to dig them out and make a list. He also has a bunch of manuals, tools, paper tape, roll and fan fold paper for the printer, etc etc. They're all located in the central Florida area. If you get down in this area on vacation, I'll give you directions of how to find him. Joe > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Oct 19 13:35:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:08 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Can anyone remember how many IBM cards fit in a box? A card is nominally 8 > thou thick, and a tray is about 16.5" long internally, so it must be > something of the order of 2000. Yes. But TRAYS, and drawers, were also available in 3000 and 4000 sizes. > Who remembers drawing a cross or a diagonal line on the top of the card > deck, so you had some chance of re-ordering the deck if someone dropped the > box? Depended a lot on how often it would be changed. On a deck that would be changed OFTEN, you put ONE diagonal. Next time that it changed significantly, you'd put a second diagonal. By the time that you had a dozen different colors and directions of diagonals, that deck would be overdue to be recopied to have nice fresh crisp cards. The diagonals were NOT primarily for re-ordering! They were NOT really adequate for single card positioning. They were to be able to SEE whether re-ordering was needed (had they dropped the deck?) You usually allowed space on the card (columns 73?-80) for a sequential number that could be used with an 084 sorter for re-ordering. Q: Remember how to dupe a deck on a 360? (If you had JCL cards, "/*" could be misinterpreted as end of file). (A: load the data deck upside down) At many locations, different colors of cards had special meanings. When I was working at Goddard Space Flight Center, I did not have appropriate clearance for handling some of the colors of cards that I was working with. > > Who remembers using a folded card (16 thou) to check the points on their > > engine (nominally 15 thou)? Folded in three to check the spark plug gap > > (nominally 25 thou)?? And what did you use for adjusting your valves? (~ .006) Zig-zags? From sipke at wxs.nl Sat Oct 19 13:43:00 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: OT: Clean steel? References: <3DB08901.1050506@rogers.com> Message-ID: <003e01c2779f$8b3f92e0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Still... Oxygen produced after 1945 could also contain trace radioactive contaminants. I dunno of a process that produces bulk amounts of oxygen without contamination, not even electrolysis of water. Remember even the seas & oceans got radioactively contaminated since 1945. I can imagine CERN wanting to use the cleanest steel possible for their Large Hadron Collider. You don't want to be swamped by various (avoidable) background events in search for the "Higgs Boson". Their steel contamination levels should be way down, even compared to the levels for use in medical radiological equipment and the like. I wonder if you could also use cast-iron for the steel making proces?. In that case cast-iron from old bridges and building reinforcements from before 1945 could be used. Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------------------ http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Pietkiewicz" To: Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 12:19 AM Subject: Re: OT: Clean steel? > > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > <> > > and therefore contains no radiation. Apparently, air since the first > > atomic bomb test is now filled with background radiation, and because so > > much air is used in the smelting process, a lot of the radiation gets into > > modern steel making it unsuitable for some applications (such as medical > > test equipment where radioactive isotopes are used as part of the > > operation). > > > Unless the steel is refined using either the open hearth or the Bessemer process, > > there is no "air" used at all. Both of these processes were notorious for air > > pollution problems. More commonly, in the last 40 years or so, steel refining is done > > using the basic oxygen steel process. Pure oxygen is blown into a > brick-lined vessel charged with liquid iron and scrap steel and the > impurities burn off at. Alloying elements are added as needed, and the > steel is poured off into ladles, and further processed. Electric arc > furnaces are also used for specialty steels (stainless comes to > mind....) and probably other applications as well. > The bottom line is, there are more efficient ways to make steel than to > use air to burn off the impurities... > > Stan > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Oct 19 13:46:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Jason McBrien wrote: > On a somewhat related note, is there a floppy drive make/manufacturer and/or > chipset/fdc manufacturer that is more flexible/compatable with odd floppy > formats? Depends. Are you asking in terms of building an FDC board from scratch, etc., or just which clone board to use? The brand of drive doesn't matter much, with a few exceptions. If you are going to use a "modern" drive (half height 5.25" v full height), then you might want to put a switch in the cable to interrupt the index pulse signal (on older drives, you can cover the hole and have it still work for read) Teac 55 series will not accept that it is ready if the index hole is covered. Tandon TM100 is the standard. For floppy disk controllers, the Western Digital 1791 series is a lot handier, due to the presence of a raw track read (NEC 765 series does a "track read" a a multiple sector read) But the WDC 1791 series is not compatible with PC software (all of which assumes a NEC 765 or equivalent.) Of the NEC 765 equivalents, the 37c65 based boards are handy, in that most of them can be used for FM (single density) without having to modify the board. From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Oct 19 15:56:52 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I would read the sector headers, which would give you all that you need. > But you CAN check whether a format has the parameters that you expect with > just a series of sector reads. Ok, I've looked over Intel's datasheet for the 82077A and 82078 that they have online, and can't find any command that'll easily let me just 'read sector headers'. Is there something I'm missing? The closest command I could find was "READ ID HEADER" which would return the first sector ID that it found. Do I need to read the entire track or someting? Pat -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From jwest at imail.kwcorp.com Sat Oct 19 16:27:59 2002 From: jwest at imail.kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Another LA request Message-ID: <019501c273ae$2a9c8640$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> I'm looking for a floppy drive for my 1631D LA... I thought I had one already but just realized I never got it. Soooo Anyone have a spare 9122S or 9122D available? Someday I hope to find a HP-IB interface for a PeeCee cheap, but from what I've seen those are still commanding (relatively) high dollars. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Sat Oct 19 16:28:39 2002 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A) Message-ID: <200210141839.g9EIdWtd016162@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Joe wrote: > The 85F were delivered as part of various HP test systems and AFIK > they were never listed separately in the HP catalogs. That's probably > why few people have heard of them and may be confusing their > capabilities with standard 85Bs. The 85F is a nice catch IMO, you > gain two ROMs and don't use up any of the ports on the back. Yes, the 85F was part of the 3056DL data acquisition system. You can find a brochure with a description of the 85F config at On page 21 you find the 85F described as: Computer with CRT, keyboard, tape drive, graphics, 16K memory, HP-IB card, I/O ROM and ROM drawer (all that for just $3485). There is no Mass Storage ROM and the Adv Programming ROM was a $165 option. Also since they gave you the ROM drawer, the ROMs would not be inside the 85F, so you do use one port on the back. Even the 9915A which contains the ROMs inside the cabinet, has only three slots, so you appear to lose a slot anyway. Also, Joe, since you have the programmable-rom-module, can you check inside to see the type of the translator IC (the one closest to the the edge connector. I would guess that its either a 1MA5-0101 or a 1MB5-0101. Further down there should be a 8048 (Intel microcontroller) that does all the funny address decoding and stuff. At least with most HP85 I/O cards, the funny voltages on the I/O bus are hidden by the translator chip; on the other side you have industry standard TTL. Because of the "funny" voltages on the I/O bus, contructing a programmable-rom-module from scratch would be very difficult, but if we can use the 1MB5-0101 part (which is found in most adapters) we can convert some of the zillion 82937 HP-IB adaptors that appear constantly on eBay to programmable-rom-modules. Then we can all have the EMS ROM and get rid of the ancient (and huge) 9135A hard disks. BTW The most impressive of these beasts is probably the 9895A dual 8-inch floppy drive, that is so big that the HP85 sitting on top looks like a toy. I have a 20 page brochure on the 9915A. I'll try to make it available on-line soon. This is where I got the keyboard connector info I posted in my previous email. gil smith wrote: > There are still a few unknown keys in the main > matrix though. Pin 25 use is unknown (2.5V). Pin 1 is chassis ground. As I have mentioned in the previous posting, there is also a speaker signal on the keyboard connector. gil smith wrote: > Since > there are no lines to enable a specific rom socket, I think the 85 must > poll for roms using fixed address ranges or something -- this implies > that the roms contain address qualification circuitry of some sort. Have a look at page 5-3 of the HP-85 assembler manual (available on CDROM from the HP calculator museum - www.hpmuseum.org). It describes the system memory organization of the HP-85. On page 6-17 the manual explains how to access other ROMs via the bank-switching hooks. Best regards **vp From jwest at imail.kwcorp.com Sat Oct 19 16:29:25 2002 From: jwest at imail.kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: apple - treasure or trash? Message-ID: <021301c273b7$6ea03e00$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> I just got handed a huge binder, that was getting ready to be pitched during our datacenter move. Apple "Supportools Reference Guide", including product data sheets, system configuration, software, and support. Got sections on apples, macs, A/UX, etc. Offered for trade... Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net Sat Oct 19 16:29:53 2002 From: lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net (linc fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web In-Reply-To: <20021014132626.84353.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Tom Uban wrote: > > Can you please supply a url? > > news:alt.binaries.multimedia > > You'll need a news reader, preferably one tuned for binary snarfing > like Agent or Newsbin, and an account/feed to a News Server (typically > news.whateveryourispis.com). > > It's about 120MB. > > > At 08:54 PM 10/13/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > >It was just posted in alt.binaries.multimedia. > > > > > >-ethan This is almost impossible for me to get a hold of.. Can anyone grab it and point me to a local copy I can DL somewhere please? -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From lothar.felten at gmx.net Sat Oct 19 16:30:24 2002 From: lothar.felten at gmx.net (Lothar Felten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: VT52 repair [was: Favorite terminal] References: <3DA728EE.C04E0BCC@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3DABEDF5.6070001@gmx.net> >>I used to have a VT52(?) terminal that I bbs'd on with a 300 baud acoustic >>modem. The keyboard was pretty neat in that it was nearly identical to >>what you'd find on a Kaypro 2 or 4. > > Yes, the vt52 was a nice one. The only "stackable" terminal I know of > ;-) This reminds me that my VT102 is on top of my VT52 which doesn't work. I'd really like to repair the VT52, but I don't have any schematics. when I power it up, the voltages form the suppy seem correct, the high voltage for the tube is also there. Another strange thing: I lack the serial port (I suppose it is serial or a current loop) there should be a cable coming out of the bottom of the VT52, but I only have the power cord. Inside there is something that looks like a connector, but I'm not sure if it really is one. Does anyone have the schematics for the VT52 ? Or a hint where I should start looking for common errors ? DECwriter III is a funny 'Terminal', at least you can always scroll back to the beginning of your session :o). I have never seen those DECwriters beeing used, for me it's hard to imagine that someone actually worked on such a terminal. Lothar. From lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net Sat Oct 19 16:31:05 2002 From: lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net (linc fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Fw: Sign of the times :( In-Reply-To: <013501c274a5$ebb88700$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > In news:3DAC9616.5EB1C69C@pacbell.net, yi ge mei you wei ba wrote: > > > > > Looks like california plates, but where ? I'd go grab it for you > > > if I knew where it was .... no street signs in the photo :-) > > > > Area Code: 818 > > Prefix: 762 > > Location: North Hollywood > > > > Well this is as close as I can peg it. Wish someone would salvage it. > > In reference to: > http://216.102.153.252/sgi.jpg > > For the graphically or bandwidth challenged, it's an Onyx sitting beside a > dumptser. Possibly a troll, but if I was withing a half-days' drive I'd > spend the weekend driving sidestreets to be sure... > > Bob > AHHH! -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From sieler at allegro.com Sat Oct 19 16:31:33 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Looking for: Ai Cybernetic Systems Model 1000 Speech Synthesizer. In-Reply-To: <000001c271f2$90886f40$3201a8c0@flame> Message-ID: <3DAD8930.8656.40C54F@localhost> Re: Looking for: Ai Cybernetic Systems Model 1000 Speech Synthesizer. (BTW, I never saw the original post, just Jack Coat's followup) > I think I still have one. You might check with Wirt Atmar at AI > Cybernetics. He did the original AI Cybernetic synthesizer. Wirt Atmar, WirtAtmar@AOL.COM, would probably like to hear from you. AFAIK, he doesn't have one himself! Thanks, Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From ccraft at netgenius.org Sat Oct 19 16:32:07 2002 From: ccraft at netgenius.org (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: New VAX 6000 toys. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021017023437.EBB24611D5@mamacass.springsips.com> *DeLurk* I'm totally green with envy! I want pictures! (The largest VAX I have is a 4000/500) -Chris, RetroComputing Nut On Monday 14 October 2002 17:19, you wrote: > I've recently acquired two of those rackmount VAX 6000's that were being > sold on eBay. I paid more than I should've, but given the nature of the > systems, I'd have gone higher. Though they're still hefty, they are > very small and light in comparison to the full sized VAX 6000's. > They're still built like tanks, but I'm able to move one easily by > myself. Well, at least as long as I don't have to pick it up off the > ground. The other huge plus with these is that they're already wired up > for single-phase power--no hacks are required. The systems have Hubbell > Twist-Lock connectors: L6-20 (20A @ 250V). It'll be trivial to hook > these up to household dryer circuits in the US. In their present > configurations, they've each a single 6000-400 CPU, 384MB of RAM, three > XMI ethernet modules, an XMI FDDI module, and two XMI CI-bus modules. > My employer is planning on tossing out some of their old FDDI > concentrators, so it all works out rather nicely. > > I'm still trying to determine if the XMI card cage is the original XMI > or if it's XMI-2. Looking at the back of it, some of the metal dividers > in the backplane are stamped with a date in 1991; this is after DEC > started producing the XMI-2 based VAX 6000 systems. If these do support > the 500 and 600 series CPUs, I'm planning on turning at least one into > the world's smallest VAX 6660. The other will be a VAX 6420 with two > vector processors. MUH HA HAH!!! > > Another interesting thing with these systems is that they've Intel asset > tags affixed to them. I've often heard it stated that Intel operated > the production control systems at their fabs with VAX/VMS systems. I > don't know if these systems served in that capacity or not, but the guy > selling them is located only a few miles from Intel's Chandler, AZ > campus where several of Intel's fabs are located. > > As a side note, I'm often disappointed with the packing jobs of the > bulkier gear I buy online. That's not the case with this seller. He > seems to be well equipped for shipping heavy items. The rackmount unit > was packed in a large box with thick foam surrounding it. The box was > also secured to wooden pallet and wrapped in plastic. It took me about > half an hour to unpack everything. He really went crazy with the > plastic wrap. > > I believe he has more of these, three have already been put up on eBay. > I've got my two, so I'm done throwing money at them; I expect the others > will go for considerably less. > > -brian. From vcf at siconic.com Sat Oct 19 16:32:37 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: KayPro to donate (fwd) Message-ID: Anyone in the Kensington, Maryland area interested in a Kaypro 64? If so, contact Robert directly. Respond-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Robert Flickinger Subject: Re: KayPro to donate I have a Kaypro 64 in excellent condition which I would love to get out of my house. It was my first computer and I just couldn't bear to throw it away. It has a carrying case and complete software, including Dbase II for CPM. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Sat Oct 19 16:33:08 2002 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: OT: Shipping a large, heavy crate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021017202515.50382.qmail@web20804.mail.yahoo.com> Robert, I have used Yellow and Bestway for door to door service. When you arrange for pick-up specify if you have a loading dock or not as shipper will need to know if a lift gate is needed. Sounds like the item is already crated, but if not you can contact United, North American, etc. for a "blanket wrap" service where they will wrap and ship the item (cost >> 0). Lee Courtney --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > I know this has been discussed before, but I can't > find the answer in the > archives. > > I need to ship a large, heavy crate (about 30" x 12" > x 72" and around > 200-250 pounds) in the US. What company would you > recommend? > > Please answer off-list, directly to my email. > > Thanks, > > Robert A. Feldman > robert_feldman@jdedwards.com > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From jharrison02 at gate.net Sat Oct 19 16:33:37 2002 From: jharrison02 at gate.net (Jeff Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <3DAEFAEB.7217.EC5ACE5@localhost> References: <3DAEFAEB.7217.EC5ACE5@localhost> Message-ID: <1034816997.8104.7.camel@supermicro> Am I the only one who names my (network) machines "#1", "#2", etc? Jeffrey H. Ingber (jingber@ix.netcom.com) On Thu, 2002-10-17 at 21:01, Scarletdown wrote: > After much pondering and debate, I have finally decided on a name for > my Cromemco System Two. Once she is operational, she shall be > christened as Mintaka. > > Okay, so that isn't really an earthshaking event or anything like > that, but system naming is one of those little geeky activities that > I get some strange enjoyment out of. > > Ironically, the first name that came to mind was Altair; then I > instantly remembered that that name was already used as a brand name > for an old S-100 girl, so I decided on Mintaka, to keep with the > stellar theme. > > So, uhm, anyway...I guess there wasn't much point ot this post > afterall. :p > > Later! > > -- Scarletdown > > > From clamrock at nmtdie.com Sat Oct 19 16:34:07 2002 From: clamrock at nmtdie.com (Chris Lamrock) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-8 Help Message-ID: <007701c276ad$80ef6e70$640aa8c0@chrislamrock> Hi, I have a Heathkit H-8 of which I know nothing about. I am curious to play with this machine a bit but really I don't know where to start. I believe all I have for the H-8 is the computer - the part with the keypad & led display & a bunch of cables. What can I do with this? How can I test to see if it even works? Any ideas where I could go to find more information about it? Thanks all! Chris Lamrock From vcf at siconic.com Sat Oct 19 16:34:36 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Arithmometer simulator Message-ID: You have GOT to check out the mechanical caclulator simulators this guy has developed: http://oldcalc.republika.pl Very, very cool! I believe the site is Polish, but there is an English link (the Union Jack in the upper left frame). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Sat Oct 19 16:36:02 2002 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Reading HP series 80 ROMs Message-ID: <200210181434.g9IEYwOi003776@codex.cis.upenn.edu> gil smith wrote: >From: john_shadbolt@talk21.com > > [...]I have performed the following on my HP-85, I assume this > > will work on a 86/87/9915. > >1. Determine the ROM number for the ROM. You may have this anyway (as > >it is used for error messages). For example my guess for the HP 85 EMS > >ROM is that it is 317 octal / 207 decimal (the same as for the HP 87 > >EMS ROM which I do have). To check run the command: > > > > >MEM 60000:207,2 Actually, on the HP86 and HP87 the ROM-id is in *octal* so the correct command (for these machines) would be: MEM 60000:317,2 Also, since the HP-8[67] have larger screens, the MEM command dumps memory in multiples of 8 bytes. So the above command is equivalent to: MEM 60000:317,10 (the number of bytes is also in octal). So much for compatibility between the various Series 80 models. **vp From roadlet_411 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 19 16:36:33 2002 From: roadlet_411 at hotmail.com (Jason Cook) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-June/000079.html Message-ID: Hi, I happened to come across this post and noticed that you were advertising some items for sale. I was wondering if you could let me know what items from that page are still available. Thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021019/8f89e66c/attachment.html From stefan at softhome.net Sat Oct 19 16:37:02 2002 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Free : Manual for Barco CV33-2 SE Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021019135709.00abbeb0@pop.softhome.net> I have here a manual for a CV33-2 SE/HE made by Barco Industries. Free for anyone who wants it and is willing to pick it up or pay for postage. Manual is dated 19 nov 1984. The CV33-2 is a videotex terminal btw. yours, Stefan. From ccraft at netgenius.org Sat Oct 19 16:37:30 2002 From: ccraft at netgenius.org (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021019185001.28CE861327@mamacass.springsips.com> Me too! :) -Chris Craft, RetroComputing Nut On Friday 18 October 2002 18:16, Will Jennings wrote: > HELL YEAH! AN/UYK-20 BABY! *consults my data files* Other than that its a > Univac (obviously), and 16-bit, I don't know much about it... They were > used in a few different cool things, for example the original AEGIS > system.. I'd love to have one... and know at least one other person that'd > probably want one.. how much? heh > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Oct 19 16:39:04 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Reading old disks on Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > I would read the sector headers, which would give you all that you need. > Ok, I've looked over Intel's datasheet for the 82077A and 82078 that they > have online, and can't find any command that'll easily let me just 'read > sector headers'. Is there something I'm missing? The closest command I > could find was "READ ID HEADER" which would return the first sector ID > that it found. Do I need to read the entire track or someting? A: If you read a header, can you process the data, and be ready to read again in less than 1/50 of a second? Ifnot, then you could read even numbered headers on one revolution, and odd numbered on another. Reading the track and parsing the raw data into sector headers and data can be done with the WDC 179a series (or an Amiga), but is not practical with the NEC 765 derivatives. Those, instead of a track read, have a multi-sector read. From ipscone at msdsite.com Sat Oct 19 16:41:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Looking for: Ai Cybernetic Systems Model 1000 Speech Synthesizer. In-Reply-To: <3DAD8930.8656.40C54F@localhost> References: <000001c271f2$90886f40$3201a8c0@flame> Message-ID: <3DB16F04.9455.1D07021@localhost> I have one. What are you looking for? I have docs also. Mike > Re: > Looking for: Ai Cybernetic Systems Model 1000 Speech Synthesizer. > > (BTW, I never saw the original post, just Jack Coat's followup) > > > I think I still have one. You might check with Wirt Atmar at AI > > Cybernetics. He did the original AI Cybernetic synthesizer. > > > Wirt Atmar, WirtAtmar@AOL.COM, would probably like to hear from you. > AFAIK, he doesn't have one himself! > > Thanks, > > Stan Sieler > sieler@allegro.com > > > -- > Stan Sieler > sieler@allegro.com > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html > > From ipscone at msdsite.com Sat Oct 19 17:07:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Looking for: Ai Cybernetic Systems Model 1000 Speech Synthesizer. In-Reply-To: <3DB16F04.9455.1D07021@localhost> References: <3DAD8930.8656.40C54F@localhost> Message-ID: <3DB1751B.3006.1E83A51@localhost> Forgot to include a couple of links: http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/ai/ai.jpg http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/ai/ai2.jpg One of those papers is a letter signed by Wirt Atmar, for some software that was sent to a customer, dated Mar 3rd, 1979. Mike > I have one. What are you looking for? I have docs also. > > Mike > > > Re: > > Looking for: Ai Cybernetic Systems Model 1000 Speech Synthesizer. > > > > (BTW, I never saw the original post, just Jack Coat's followup) > > > > > I think I still have one. You might check with Wirt Atmar at AI > > > Cybernetics. He did the original AI Cybernetic synthesizer. > > > > > > Wirt Atmar, WirtAtmar@AOL.COM, would probably like to hear from you. > > AFAIK, he doesn't have one himself! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Stan Sieler > > sieler@allegro.com > > > > > > -- > > Stan Sieler > > sieler@allegro.com > > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html > > > > > > > From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sat Oct 19 17:20:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: VT52 repair [was: Favorite terminal] Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034264@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >Does anyone have the schematics for the VT52 ? >Or a hint where I should start looking for common errors ? You can start at http://www.vt100.net You'll find a maintenance guide and a pocket service guide at the very least. Antonio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2398 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021019/df79eb6f/attachment.bin From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Oct 19 18:49:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: 8272 FDC commands, release of dmklib (was Re: Reading old disks on Linux) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33040.64.169.63.74.1035071479.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I would read the sector headers, which would give you all that you > need. > Ok, I've looked over Intel's datasheet for the 82077A and 82078 that > they have online, and can't find any command that'll easily let me > just 'read sector headers'. Is there something I'm missing? The > closest command I could find was "READ ID HEADER" which would return > the first sector ID that it found. Do I need to read the entire track > or someting? Fred Cisin wrote: > A: If you read a header, can you process the data, and be ready to read > again in less than 1/50 of a second? Ifnot, then you could read even > numbered headers on one revolution, and odd numbered on another. The READ ID HEADER command doesn't give you a choice as to what header you're going to read; it just grabs the next one that comes around. So if you want to know the exact sequence of headers on the track, you have to be able to process them in real time. You also don't inherently get any information on the positioning of the IDs with regard to the index pulse. If you want that information, you should do a read track, and then start reading IDs as soon as the read track completes. Since this seems to be a subject of interest to various people here, I have decided to release dmklib even though it is not really ready for prime time: http://sf.net/projects/dmklib/ Here's the README: dmklib README $Id$ Copyright 2002 Eric Smith dmklib is a library to read and write DMK format floppy disk images. DMK format was developed by David Keil to represent floppy disk images for use in TRS-80 simulators, and has since been adopted by other software such as xtrs by Tim Mann and M.E.S.S. The specifications for the DMK image file format are available on the web: http://discover-net.net/~dmkeil/trs80/trstech.htm#Technical-DMK-disks dmklib is supplied with several utility/demo programs for Linux: rfloppy: read an actual floppy diskette and produce a DMK image dmkformat: produce a blank formatted DMK image dmk2raw: extract the data from a DMK image into a raw file dumpids: read and display the sector IDs from an actual floppy diskette dmklib and the utility/demo programs are in an *extremely* crude state, however, they have been used successfully to read 8-inch single and double sided, single and double density floppies. Although some versions have been used in the past to read 5.25-inch floppies, it is not known whether this release will do so. Since there has been quite a bit of interest recently on the CCTalk mailing list in Linux software to read floppy diskettes, I have decided to make this prerelease available now rather than wait until I've cleaned everything up. Further development of dmklib will be hosted on SourceForge: http://sf.net/projects/dmklib/ Eric Smith 19-Oct-2002 This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License version 2 as published by the Free Software Foundation. Note that permission is not granted to redistribute this program under the terms of any other version of the General Public License. This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111 USA From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 19 18:59:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: VT52 repair [was: Favorite terminal] In-Reply-To: <3DABEDF5.6070001@gmx.net> from "Lothar Felten" at Oct 15, 2 12:29:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1260 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021019/da715cf1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 19 18:59:36 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: ASR33 linefeed problems... In-Reply-To: <3DAA818C000D7C9E@mta3n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) from "jos.mar" at Oct 19, 2 01:01:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 895 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021019/039e95d7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 19 19:00:11 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: <10210191155.ZM5877@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Oct 19, 2 10:55:29 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 905 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021019/3cacaaaa/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 19 19:00:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <200210190019.RAA26560@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Oct 18, 2 05:19:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 177 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021019/e5746463/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 19 19:01:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Oct 19, 2 09:04:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 308 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021019/b4667c41/attachment.ksh From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sat Oct 19 19:05:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: ASR-33 Line Feed Problems Message-ID: <1035072417.19474.2.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> I had this half-linefeed problem on my ASR-33 when I first rescued it from the Barn. After a few nights of careful study (watching the mechanism at work) I decided that the spring on the ratchet device was stretched to the point of not being springy any more. I replaced it with another (from a carburater rebuild kit, as I recall) and it has worked fine ever since. From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Oct 19 19:17:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: References: <200210190019.RAA26560@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021019200919.00a73280@mail.30below.com> At 00:09 10/20/2002 +0100, you wrote: > > Hi > > I have one at work I call "Piece of Sh*t". > > Does that count as naming? > >Not if it runs any M$ OS. Yea, it's not "Naming" -- it's "Natural"... ;-) >It's just a perfectly accurate description of the machine... Hey -- it's not the *machine's* fault for running that crap! It's the *operator's* fault... The machine had no part in that decision... Laterz, "Merch" From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Sat Oct 19 19:23:21 2002 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Unibus on a VAX 6000 (was Re: New VAX 6000 toys.) Message-ID: <01KNUX6YFAXE8YANDO@cc.usu.edu> Ethan Dicks said: > If they can take it, you'd need a DWBUA on a VAXBI bus (there is no > Unibus adapter for XMI). ISTR when the 6000 was current that DEC > imposed a limit on how fast a machine could take a DWBUA, not to > screw the customer, but because some of the (then) newer machines > had so many layers between the Unibus peripherals and memory that > timings could not be maintained. I am aware of an application that used a Unibus on a VAX 6520. The system would occasionally spontaneously crash; it looked to me like the UNIBUS adapter was getting wedged. Rumor has it they fixed it with a microcode upgrade to the DWBUA, but I doubt that microcode was ever made generally available. -- Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From dan at ekoan.com Sat Oct 19 19:57:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Apple //e and Mac parts In-Reply-To: <019501c273ae$2a9c8640$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <300F9FB0-E3C7-11D6-A6B0-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> I recently came to inherit a bunch of Apple //e and Mac parts, almost all of which I have no use for. I haven't finished inventorying everything yet, but here's a partial list in case anyone is looking for something: Macintosh IIsi NuBus Adapter Card (qty 4, in original boxes) Disk, Mech, Uni/Duodisk (qty 1, in original box) Apple SCSI Active Terminator (qty 5, 3 in original packaging) Cable, DB-25 male to keyed 20 pin header (qty 5, in bags) Large number of key switches and key caps for // and //e. Handful of pilot lights for //e. A dozen or so RJ-11 plugs with a resistor -- look like PhoneNet terminators? Contact me off-list if you're interested in anything. Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Oct 19 20:26:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34DC8408-E3CB-11D6-9667-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> At one job I initiated a naming convention for a "ring" of apollo workstations, 3 letter "animal" names ape ant bat cat dog elk eel fox gnu -- for h? imp -- for j ? -- for k -- for l nag man (I know I know man may or may not be an "animal" depending on your belife system) mus (latin for mouse) owl pig -- for q? rat -- for s? -- for t? -- for u -- for v -- for w -- for x -- for y -- for z I seem to have forgotten some, If you can add to the list please send email, I'll repost From gil at vauxelectronics.com Sat Oct 19 20:55:25 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: ASR33 linefeed problems... Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021019190035.0099d520@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi Jos: I forwarded your message to some folks that may know more about your problem, and I'll let you know when I hear back. The 33 does not have the longevity of other machines like the 35, 28, 15... It was designed as a "light-duty" machine, and has "bend-this-part" kind of adjustments in places instead of eccentic screws, etc. When they hit enough hours, they seem to crap out. But yours may just need some TLC. One word of warning for any mechanical device, especially a teletype -- never use WD-40. It is shellac-based and will turn to gunk in a couple of years. (just like it does on everyones door hinges). I use 3-in-one oil for light linkages, 20W or 30W motor oil for heavier needs, and lithium grease for cams, etc. gil At 01:01 PM 10/19/02 +0100, you wrote: > > >After a whole day of finetuning my ASR linefeed pawl stops, I still cannot >get it to produce a reliable linefeed. Most of the time I get nothing ,or a >half line, sometimes it feeds at each character. > >Is there any secret to this mechanism ? The ASR manual is not a great help, >as it does not mention anything besides the pawls'and their stops. > > Jos Dreesen > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From dan at ekoan.com Sat Oct 19 20:56:03 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Apple //e and Mac parts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <60D34E0C-E3CF-11D6-A6B0-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> I was quickly corrected regarding the cables I mentioned earlier. They are DB-19 to 20-pin header (keyed), apparently an interface cable to the UniDisk drive. I also have several ribbon cables for the older style floppy drives. Also, I just located three Apple IIe emulation cards for the Mac LC series. These are just the cards, part number 820-0444-A. They're in anti-static bags but not sealed. Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From ipscone at msdsite.com Sat Oct 19 23:13:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: IMS 5000 Power Supply Specs? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021019190035.0099d520@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3DB1CAD1.32462.3371736@localhost> I have just come across an IMSAI 5000 Power Supply in original box (amoung my vintage parts) but it does not have a manual. I was thinking about powering it up tomorrow to power a small S-100 chassis I have. It has four terminals that say +8, +8, +16, -16. Looks like the right voltages for the S-100 but I was wondering about the specs on this board. How much current can one get on the +8 terminals. Also, there is one connector with all of these voltages and 4 other connectors above it on the left. Are these for disk drives or such? There is a photo at: http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/ims/ims5000.jpg Thanks, Mike From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sat Oct 19 23:32:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <34DC8408-E3CB-11D6-9667-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <34DC8408-E3CB-11D6-9667-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <1035001972.20393.10.camel@supermicro> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 21:28, Ron Hudson wrote: > > At one job I initiated a naming convention for a "ring" of apollo > workstations, 3 letter "animal" names > > ape > ant > bat > cat > dog > elk eel emu > fox > gnu > -- for h? hen > imp > -- for j ? > -- for k > -- for l > nag > man (I know I know man may or may not be an "animal" depending on your > belife system) mus (latin for mouse) > owl > pig > -- for q? > rat > -- for s? > -- for t? > -- for u uru > -- for v > -- for w > -- for x > -- for y > -- for z > > I seem to have forgotten some, If you can add to the list please send > email, I'll repost > From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 20 01:19:01 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: The naming of Servers (was Re: A Momentous Decision) In-Reply-To: <1035001972.20393.10.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <0E276FDE-E3F4-11D6-B377-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Hi Jeffery, Thanks for "uru" what is that? Hen and Emu were already added by... Brian Chase! His list adds: bee boa bug cod cow cur doe elf emu ewe fly goa hen hog koi nit orc pug pup ram roc sow yak My original list: ape ant bat cat dog elk eel fox gnu imp nag man mus (latin for mouse) owl pig rat -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 405 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021020/ad707a19/attachment.bin From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sun Oct 20 08:58:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <9753165648.20021019093745@subatomix.com> References: <200210190006.g9J06rq24627@shell1.aracnet.com> <200210190006.g9J06rq24627@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021021000348.022bf718@kerberos.davies.net.au> Most of my systems are network connected so they get names allocated, but sometimes the names reflect their usage. So the first network gateway box is called kerberos but the other gateway is adslgw. When I'm thinking about them I tend to say "I'm off to work on the Windows box, the Linux box, the VAX (even though it's an alpha whose host name is nimrod) and so on. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Oct 20 10:03:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" "Re: [OT] paper on Retro ?" (Oct 19, 11:36) References: Message-ID: <10210201603.ZM6591@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 19, 11:36, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Who remembers drawing a cross or a diagonal line on the top of the card > > deck, so you had some chance of re-ordering the deck > Depended a lot on how often it would be changed. > On a deck that would be changed OFTEN, you put ONE diagonal. Next time > that it changed significantly, you'd put a second diagonal. By the time > that you had a dozen different colors and directions of diagonals, that > deck would be overdue to be recopied to have nice fresh crisp cards. We rarely did that. We did use diagonal line(s) to see if a deck needed sorted; if it wasn't too big then the line was usually enough. > At many locations, different colors of cards had special meanings. When I > was working at Goddard Space Flight Center, I did not have appropriate > clearance for handling some of the colors of cards that I was working > with. Yes, I can't remember all the colours except that blue was usually JCL. > > > Who remembers using a folded card (16 thou) to check the points on their > > > engine (nominally 15 thou)? Folded in three to check the spark plug gap > > > (nominally 25 thou)?? > > And what did you use for adjusting your valves? (~ .006) Zig-zags? No, anything more serious than a quick sanity check merited a real feeler gauge :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foo at siconic.com Sun Oct 20 10:20:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: IMS 5000 Power Supply Specs? In-Reply-To: <3DB1CAD1.32462.3371736@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Mike Davis wrote: > I have just come across an IMSAI 5000 Power Supply in original box > (amoung my vintage parts) but it does not have a manual. I was > thinking about powering it up tomorrow to power a small S-100 chassis > I have. > > It has four terminals that say +8, +8, +16, -16. Looks like the > right voltages for the S-100 but I was wondering about the specs on > this board. How much current can one get on the +8 terminals. > > Also, there is one connector with all of these voltages and 4 other > connectors above it on the left. Are these for disk drives or such? > > There is a photo at: http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/ims/ims5000.jpg Just a correction: IMS International != IMSAI Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Oct 20 10:41:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: WordCraft for PET with software dongle? Message-ID: Does anyone have WordCraft written by Peter Dowson and Mike Lake (UK) for the PET (crica 1978-1979) that included a "dongle" (software key) that had to be plugged into one of the ports on the back of the PET in order to work? If so, please contact me directly at . Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Oct 20 11:18:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: Dauphin DTR-1 Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021020122312.432fcca4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I went to a small local hamfest yesterday and picked up a DTR-1. It's complete and includes all the accessories including the original boxs, papers, SW disks, manuals, PSU, slide off cover, pouch, external floppy. The only thing wrong with it is the battery is dead (no problem, 6 A size NiMH cells) and the hard drive has zillions of errors. I'm attempting to reformat the hard drive but the previous owner says that the drive is bad and needs to be replaced. Does anyone have a HP 40 Mb 1.3 inch KittyHawk drive that you're willing to part with? Or does anyone know if anyone ever came up with a way to install a different drive such as one of the PCMCIA drives or the IBM Microdrive in it? Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 20 12:47:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:09 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021019200919.00a73280@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Oct 19, 2 08:11:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 693 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021020/e9f7bf10/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 20 12:47:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: ASR33 linefeed problems... In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021019190035.0099d520@mail.vauxelectronics.com> from "gil smith" at Oct 19, 2 07:00:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1585 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021020/05145897/attachment.ksh From gil at vauxelectronics.com Sun Oct 20 12:49:01 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: [GreenKeys] Line feed on a 33ASR Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021020105457.01937100@mail.vauxelectronics.com> >From: "Jack" >To: >Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Line feed on a 33ASR >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:50:20 -0400 > >Of all the aggravating adjustments on the 33, the line feed >gets the award! Later machines had a much more refined >mechanism, but the older and probably more plentiful models >required a lot of cussing, swearing and a little adjusting. >The line feed pawl that actually moves the platen sometimes wears. > >After making sure your machine is in good operating shape by >sending the reversals (U*U*U*U*) and making sure the >selector is working correctly, watch to see if the pawl >tries to advance the platen every time you send it a >LINE FEED character. If it seems to miss sometimes and only >feed halfway other times, then that's what you need to >fiddle with... > >Jack WA2HWJ > >NNNN > > > > >_______________________________________________ >GreenKeys mailing list >GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net >http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From gil at vauxelectronics.com Sun Oct 20 12:49:45 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: [GreenKeys] Line feed on a 33ASR Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021020105525.0190f260@mail.vauxelectronics.com> >From: "O. Warren" >To: >Subject: [GreenKeys] Line feed on a 33ASR >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 08:34:35 -0600 > >Hi... > >About line feed on a 33ASR.. > >I'm a retired Western Union Field Service Technician, and we used these >33ASR's with internal data sets (modems) as TWX machines. They also made a >good low speed pre Internet on-line terminal. > >>From what I remember, the line feed prowl was a concentric adjustment on the >left side of the platen. > >>From the message I read, the selector part is the problem. Typically first >check that the selection is working with a test of blanks and rub outs, or a >string of *'s and U's. This will test for machine reversals. Then check >the line feed selection. Look for lack of oil, then weak or missing >springs, misarranged levers, etc.. > >Then oil. Dirt on the distributor and keyboard contacts and lack of oil >will kill the machine. The proper oil is in between 30 weight motor oil and >3 in 1 oil. Sears Roebuck used to sell what they termed "air conditioner >oil", which was almost an exact replacement for "Teletype oil", and also in >a squeeze bottle. Be sure that someone didn't use grease instead of oil and >"gooey" the mechanism up!! > >Your machine is a good teaching tool. Watch the selector mechanism work in >reversals and then the lined feed mechanism operate. whatever the problem, >it will become apparent.. > >Best, > >Dick Warren >ocwarren@burgoyne.com > >_______________________________________________ >GreenKeys mailing list >GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net >http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From marvin at rain.org Sun Oct 20 13:00:01 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: FS - Sparcstation 2 w/ CDROM and External HD References: <3.0.6.16.20021020122312.432fcca4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DB2EF8E.93EE9810@rain.org> One of the things I am getting rid of is a Sun SparcStation 2 with keyboard/mouse and a Sony 19" Color GDM-1955 Monitor. I don't recall the sizes, but it has two SCSI HDs. IIRC, the first is the one that came with the unit (250 MB???) and the second is larger. The unit has 64MB of Ram installed. The only problems are 1) the NVRAM needs to be replaced or fixed as the battery is not too healthy :), and 2) in playing around a year or two ago, I copied the shell files to a tmp directory and deleted the files. Unfortunately, without them operational, the machine doesn't boot up correctly ... another educational moment :). Also included are the Sun CDs for Solaris version ??? for both the PC and Sun I obtained from Sun around 1999. There is also an external Sun SCSI CD-ROM drive (no cable) and an Andataco external SCSI FH HD w/ cable. I haven't been able to test either the CD-ROM or the Andataco HD since there is no cable to connect the CDROM drive to the unit to reinstall the system. If anyone is interested, let me know by email. I don't want to ship this thing as the monitor is rather heavy. So, it is available by pickup or I can bring it to VCF next weekend. $50.00. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Oct 20 13:24:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Ricochet wireless modem? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021020142932.45df2730@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've picked up several of GS models in a bunch of surplus. Is anyone familar with them? I'm wondering if you HAVE to use Ricochet's network or if they can be set up to work peer to peer. Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Oct 20 13:42:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Dauphin DTR-1 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021020122312.432fcca4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > I went to a small local hamfest yesterday and picked up a DTR-1. It's >>complete and includes all the accessories including the original boxs, >>papers, SW disks, manuals, PSU, slide off cover, pouch, external floppy. Are there some DTR-1 specific disks that came with it? I didn't get any disks with the 4(?) that I've got. I honestly don't remember. You might try contacting the mailing list for these little beasties. dauphin_dtr-1@yahoogroups.com Did you by any chance get a network interface with yours? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Oct 20 14:16:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Dauphin DTR-1 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20021020122312.432fcca4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021020152109.4e3fe0aa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Zane, At 11:44 AM 10/20/02 -0700, you wrote: >> I went to a small local hamfest yesterday and picked up a DTR-1. It's >>>complete and includes all the accessories including the original boxs, >>>papers, SW disks, manuals, PSU, slide off cover, pouch, external floppy. > >Are there some DTR-1 specific disks that came with it? I didn't get any >disks with the 4(?) that I've got. I'm not sure. The disks that I got look like standard MicroSlouth disks but they may have the utility files on them. (I hope!) I just went looking and it looks like I didn't get the windows disks that are supposed to come with it. I'll have to check with the seller and see if he has them. Here's what I have; MS DOS 6 Plus Enhanced Tools (3 disks), MS DOS 6.22 Setup (2 disks), MS DOS 6.22 Plus Enhanced Tools (3 disks), Winfax lite (1 disk). > >I honestly don't remember. You might try contacting the mailing list for >these little beasties. dauphin_dtr-1@yahoogroups.com I searched through all their messages and several people talked about enhancements but they didn't say anything specific. > >Did you by any chance get a network interface with yours? I don't think so. The seller couldn't remember if it was installed but it's supposed to come with a manual and I didn't get the manual so I don't think it's installed. The jack is there but according to the manual the jack is installed on all of them "for cosmetic reasons". I haven't opened it up to check. I'm still trying to reformat the hard drive (LOTs of errors). I tried to run spinRite on it but it won't even recognize the drive (probably because it wasn't formatted at the time). So I'm trying to get it to format despite lots of errors, then I'll try SpinRite again. I've alreay tried to FDISK it but they didn't help. In fact, it only put about 20% of the drive in the main partition. It definitely needs a LL format IMO. Joe > > Zane >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From foo at siconic.com Sun Oct 20 16:35:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Ricochet wireless modem? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021020142932.45df2730@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Joe wrote: > I've picked up several of GS models in a bunch of surplus. Is anyone > familar with them? I'm wondering if you HAVE to use Ricochet's network > or if they can be set up to work peer to peer. They will work peer to peer within 1/4 mile, which is quite cool. You can imagine the possibilities. You can actually connect one modem directly to another by "dialing" the modem's serial number: ATDTabcd-wxyz where "abcd-wxyz" is the modem's four digit serial number (the dash is required I believe/assume to let the modem know you are dialing another modem). Ricochet's assets were bought out by Aerie Networks (http://www.aerienetworks.com/) who are supposed to re-introduce service at some point. I'm holding on to my modem in the hopes that it happens eventually. So far they only have Denver up with San Diego and Dallas "coming soon". A far cry from what Ricochet had, and silly considering that the Silicon Valley was their first and biggest market. I still have the manual to my modem that I can copy for you. It will give you some good information. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From go at ao.com Sun Oct 20 18:02:00 2002 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? References: Message-ID: <3DB33740.30204@ao.com> Another bit of (perhaps true) trivia re IBM cards: I was told once by a (Control Data) field engineer that the size of the original SSSD 8 inch floppy was chosen to be approximately a box of cards (he claimed to be an amateur computer historian even way back in the late 70s.) The original IBM floppy dimensions were: 77 tracks * 26 sectors = 2002 sectors per disk = approx one box of cards. Never mind the sectors were 128 bytes long instead of 80... The extra was just extra, I guess. I have no personal "knowledge" that this is true. I thought that the original usage for the diskettes was as an IPL storage to initialize the microcode on some early 360 mainframes. But, again, I'm not too knowlegable about IBM gear. Control Data, maybe, but IBM not at all. I seem to recall seeing some (non IBM) key-to-disk machines that operated like a keypunch but it produced one card image per sector on those 8 inch floppies. Anyone know who made these? Was it IBM and if so, what was the equipment designation? Tony Duell wrote: >>Can anyone remember how many IBM cards fit in a box? A card is nominally 8 >>thou thick, and a tray is about 16.5" long internally, so it must be >>something of the order of 2000. >> >> > >I beleive it is eaxctly that... > > > >>Who remembers drawing a cross or a diagonal line on the top of the card >>deck, so you had some chance of re-ordering the deck if someone dropped the >>box? >> >> > >Who _doesn't_ :-). Actually the line was more use as a sanity check that >the deck had not been shuffled. There wasn't normally enough resolution >to completely sort a deck using it. > > > >>Who remembers using a folded card (16 thou) to check the points on their >>engine (nominally 15 thou)? Folded in three to check the spark plug gap >>(nominally 25 thou)?? >> >> > >I remember (once) using a credit card to set the plug gap on a teacher's >car at school (don't ask -- I had a somewhat odd reputation even back >then...) > >-tony > > From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 20 18:27:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: <3DB33740.30204@ao.com> Message-ID: On Sunday, October 20, 2002, at 04:07 PM, Gary Oliver wrote: > > I seem to recall seeing some (non IBM) key-to-disk machines that > operated > like a keypunch but it produced one card image per sector on those 8 > inch > floppies. Anyone know who made these? Was it IBM and if so, what was > the equipment designation? > Near 1980, I worked for CETA a federally run job training / placement operation. I help train people in Data Entry/Keypunch. We had about 8 of these machines (and two card punches too) Tab made one of them, two users would sit facing each other, each with their own 8" drive to their right, 4x80 screen in front was actually 1/2 of a crt displayed with mirrors, They must have had two character sets because the information displayed on the screen is upside-down with relation to the other operator. You could program these machine the same way you can program later cardpunches, with fields that duplicate and numeric fields and alpha fields, These machine could add new records or verify existing records. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 20 18:34:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: <3DB33740.30204@ao.com> References: <3DB33740.30204@ao.com> Message-ID: <33447.64.169.63.74.1035156955.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I thought that the > original > usage for the diskettes was as an IPL storage to initialize the > microcode on some early 360 mainframes. Not on the 360, but on the 370 and in peripheral controllers such as that of the 3330 (or was it the 3380?) disk drive. The original floppy drive was called Minnow. Although it used 8-inch media, it wasn't the same as the format they later standardized. The drives in the equipment were read-only, and the track count was not 77, though I don't know what it was. The index/sector hole was near the edge of the disk rather than near the spindle. And it spun in the opposite direction! It stored a little over 80 Kbytes. > I seem to recall seeing some (non IBM) key-to-disk machines that operated > like a keypunch but it produced one card image per sector on those 8 inch > floppies. Anyone know who made these? Was it IBM and if so, what was > the equipment designation? IBM 3740, circa 1973 From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Oct 20 19:18:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: <33447.64.169.63.74.1035156955.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > IBM 3740, circa 1973 3740 was indeed the system, but the actual data entry equipments were 3741 (single operator) and 3742 (dual operator). These were both desk type units, with the latter dual station model being the size of a small barge. Possibly one of IBM sillier offerings...imagine DEC making a dual VT100. Some 3741s (mods 2 and 4, I think) have a sync communications port (BSCA), and could talk to some of the processors. Some larger S/3s have these as standard, giving the processors a floppy (for diagnostics). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From djg at drs-esg.com Sun Oct 20 19:21:00 2002 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: VT52 repair [was: Favorite terminal] Message-ID: <200210210022.UAA11231@drs-esg.com> > Does anyone have the schematics for the VT52 ? > Yes, I send them to Eric Smith to be scanned along with VT78 and random other stuff. I can't easly do B size with my scanner. If all went well I should be getting the scans within a week to put online. I suspect they will show up on www.spies.com also. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From spc at conman.org Sun Oct 20 19:23:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021021000348.022bf718@kerberos.davies.net.au> from "Huw Davies" at Oct 21, 2002 12:06:30 AM Message-ID: <200210210025.UAA02624@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Huw Davies once stated: > > Most of my systems are network connected so they get names allocated, but > sometimes the names reflect their usage. So the first network gateway box > is called kerberos but the other gateway is adslgw. When I'm thinking about > them I tend to say "I'm off to work on the Windows box, the Linux box, the > VAX (even though it's an alpha whose host name is nimrod) and so on. The names I give are often puns or relect what I think of the machine in some way. The two identical HPs I have (HP/Apollos 425) are tweedledee and tweedledum. The two VAXs I've named (or will, once I get an OS installed and running one of these days) HOOVER (a pun on the Vaxes made in England if I remember---nothing sucks like them) and JEDGAR (since the other one is HOOVE 8-) Then there's linus, my primary linux development system, and janet, the firewall (named after the Janet airlines that serves Area-51, which is what I originally named the firewall, but renamed when I decided to play around with TLD in DNS and set up (internally) .area51) and tower, my colocated server (since it's an NCR, and for whatever reason, when I think of NCR, I think of an NCR Tower). -spc (And my Windows box is killjoy ... 8-P From foo at siconic.com Sun Oct 20 19:27:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > IBM 3740, circa 1973 > > 3740 was indeed the system, but the actual data entry equipments were > 3741 (single operator) and 3742 (dual operator). These were both desk > type units, with the latter dual station model being the size of a small > barge. Possibly one of IBM sillier offerings...imagine DEC making a > dual VT100. I've got a 3741. It's one of my cooler machines and definitely one of my favorites. I also have a BASIC interpreter for it so it is basically a personal computer ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From univac2 at earthlink.net Sun Oct 20 23:37:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Tandy XENIX Disks Message-ID: Does anyone here have the XENIX and/or XENIX Development System disks for a TRS-80 Model 16/6000? I have a Tandy 6000 that I like a lot, and have been playing around with for a few months, but the XENIX installation seems rather spotty. Some command line utilities seem to be missing and the development tools are missing completely. I suppose the previous user did that to conserve disk space. On a related note - If anyone has a TRS-80 Model 12/16/6000 keyboard suffering from keys that have a lack of bounce, removing the keycap and stretching the spring out a little works wonders. -- Owen Robertson From donm at cts.com Mon Oct 21 00:02:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Tandy XENIX Disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: > Does anyone here have the XENIX and/or XENIX Development System disks for a > TRS-80 Model 16/6000? I have a Tandy 6000 that I like a lot, and have been > playing around with for a few months, but the XENIX installation seems > rather spotty. Some command line utilities seem to be missing and the > development tools are missing completely. I suppose the previous user did > that to conserve disk space. Owen, I have a 5-disk set of XENIX 3.02.00 for the Model 16 in TeleDisk image form. If you have the capability to make media of these, I will email copies to you. - don > On a related note - If anyone has a TRS-80 Model 12/16/6000 keyboard > suffering from keys that have a lack of bounce, removing the keycap and > stretching the spring out a little works wonders. > > -- > Owen Robertson > > From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Mon Oct 21 03:33:00 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Compugraphics Editwriters References: <013001c27743$b968c300$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <026601c278dc$cd844090$0101a8c0@athlon> Thanks for all the information from everyone re the above- I have assigned a 'local' spy (these things were a two hour drive away!) to go see what the story is-and whether or not the other bits of the system are still about. Their size is againt 'em I am afraid-at least in terms of me personally rescuing a complete system-assuming one still exists- but as suggested, there may be something useful in it/them. The disk drive looks to be at least 8 inch-or am I just imagining it looks bigger than 8 inch? And an 80186 processor was mentioned..... But I'm more inclined to think it will be a Z80 as was suggested..... Anyway-- we now all know it's part of a typesetting system- again thks for all the good oil! Regards DaveB NZ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 21 07:02:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Tandy XENIX Disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021021080627.46cf52ea@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Owen, Mike Haas has a set. I gave them to him. He also has a load of other SW and docs for the 6000. Joe At 11:38 PM 10/20/02 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone here have the XENIX and/or XENIX Development System disks for a >TRS-80 Model 16/6000? I have a Tandy 6000 that I like a lot, and have been >playing around with for a few months, but the XENIX installation seems >rather spotty. Some command line utilities seem to be missing and the >development tools are missing completely. I suppose the previous user did >that to conserve disk space. > >On a related note - If anyone has a TRS-80 Model 12/16/6000 keyboard >suffering from keys that have a lack of bounce, removing the keycap and >stretching the spring out a little works wonders. > >-- >Owen Robertson > > From at258 at osfn.org Mon Oct 21 08:06:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It sounds likean IBM 3740. We have one. there was also a single operator version, but I can't recall the number 37xx, I think On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > On Sunday, October 20, 2002, at 04:07 PM, Gary Oliver wrote: > > > > I seem to recall seeing some (non IBM) key-to-disk machines that > > operated > > like a keypunch but it produced one card image per sector on those 8 > > inch > > floppies. Anyone know who made these? Was it IBM and if so, what was > > the equipment designation? > > > Near 1980, I worked for CETA a federally run job training / placement > operation. I help train people in Data Entry/Keypunch. We had about 8 > of these machines (and two card punches too) > > Tab made one of them, two users would sit facing each other, each with > their own 8" drive to their right, 4x80 screen in front was actually > 1/2 of a crt displayed with mirrors, They must have had two character > sets because the information displayed on the screen is upside-down > with relation to the other operator. > > You could program these machine the same way you can program later > cardpunches, with fields that duplicate and numeric fields and alpha > fields, These machine could add new records or verify existing records. > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Oct 21 08:36:01 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Les Solomon passed away this weekend Message-ID: I saw this in comp.os.cpm, but didn't see it here, so for those who don't read that group, Les Solomon passed away this weekend at the age of 80. More details from Stan Veit on http://www.imsai.net/ ... I did not know Les, but he definitely led an interesting life, and I know he was well-respected and cared about ... :-( Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 21 09:01:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Troll on imsai.net? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is posted on the front page of imsai.net: "Mr. Fischer, Recently my home was burglarized. Surprisingly the thieves took my son's IMSAI computer. My son is 5 years old and is autistic. He refuses to use a regular computer. He is in love with his IMSAI though, switches and lights always fascinated him. This computer was his favorite possession and he asks about it all day long, even gets up at night and wakes me up asking for it. This computer means the world to him. On the side of the machine are the letters W.O.P.R. They look silk screened. Also taken with this unit was a very large disk drive and some extreme large computer disks. I think they were 12 inches across [8" floppy disk], and are marked BASF 8" Single Sided Double Density. Also stolen was a computer modem that you would set a phone on to [acoustic coupler]. Thank you in advance for any information you may have." It sounds plausible, but then I'm a cynic. I can imagine someone would make this up to try to get the sympathy of Todd Fischer thinking he might just send them an IMSAI. I mean, why would a cat burglar walk out of a house with 100 pounds of computer, unless they really knew what it was and could get $x000 for it on eBay? Wouldn't it have shown up on eBay? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Oct 21 09:18:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision Message-ID: The only computer of mine that I named was/is my Otrona Attache 8:16, which I named "El Otorongo," (Quechua/Inkan for "The Jaguar"). Besides being alliterative, the name was appropriate, as this computer spent several years in Peru with archaeological projects I was involved with. Bob -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 5:42 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: A Momentous Decision > > After much pondering and debate, I have finally decided on a name for > my Cromemco System Two. Once she is operational, she shall be > christened as Mintaka. Just out of curiousity, how many other people here name their classic computers (for reasons other than giving them a network address) -tony From jd at sourcecode.co.za Mon Oct 21 09:22:00 2002 From: jd at sourcecode.co.za (JD Gouws) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Troll on imsai.net? Message-ID: <8D3112E09D20A14CBDE1502C2EF752900A1719@scpdc.sourcecode.co.za> Then why go at length to describe the W.O.P.R. lettering and the BASF disks. There is also mention to directly contact the authorities something a scammer would want to avoid at all costs. Even the handover of such a system if it's dontated to a boy would be caught out once there is no boy to receive it. Thieves are usually dumb, in South Africa we had thieves in the 80's that stole computers and tried to sell them as vcr's/type writers/all kinds of other creative names. They also might have thought the heavier the more worth.. While I'm writting I'd like to know this: Is there ANY chance that the ink from pens/markers can damage a CD over a long period of time? I'm marking my cds with a black marker that has Xylene in it. Aint these inks acidic? I dont want to recover all my paper tapes to CD only to find after 20 years that the ink markings ate away the surface.. -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] Sent: 21 October 2002 04:02 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Troll on imsai.net? This is posted on the front page of imsai.net: "Mr. Fischer, Recently my home was burglarized. Surprisingly the thieves took my son's IMSAI computer. My son is 5 years old and is autistic. He refuses to use a regular computer. He is in love with his IMSAI though, switches and lights always fascinated him. This computer was his favorite possession and he asks about it all day long, even gets up at night and wakes me up asking for it. This computer means the world to him. On the side of the machine are the letters W.O.P.R. They look silk screened. Also taken with this unit was a very large disk drive and some extreme large computer disks. I think they were 12 inches across [8" floppy disk], and are marked BASF 8" Single Sided Double Density. Also stolen was a computer modem that you would set a phone on to [acoustic coupler]. Thank you in advance for any information you may have." It sounds plausible, but then I'm a cynic. I can imagine someone would make this up to try to get the sympathy of Todd Fischer thinking he might just send them an IMSAI. I mean, why would a cat burglar walk out of a house with 100 pounds of computer, unless they really knew what it was and could get $x000 for it on eBay? Wouldn't it have shown up on eBay? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Oct 21 09:48:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision References: <34DC8408-E3CB-11D6-9667-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> <1035001972.20393.10.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <007701c27911$084771a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> At my last job, I always named servers after precious stones - too many sites I saw were using greek/roman gods or planet names.... so a partial list would be.... jade amethyst amber coral garnet ruby emerald diamond sapphire onyx opal But at the new job, we're using things associated with the grateful dead heh --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Oct 21 10:12:01 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: <007701c27911$084771a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: Well, my firewall/router is Dragon, my Sun Ultra 1 with Solaris 9 is Gandalf, my VaxStation 3100 will be Hobgoblin, the two Cabletron hubs will be MiddleEarth and RiverStyx. I have a x86 box (Solaris 8) that will be Halfling, and Frodo (probably) for my DEC 3000/400... Any other suggestions on this theme? -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From ajw at best.com Mon Oct 21 10:20:01 2002 From: ajw at best.com (Anthony Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: help! rate classic basic games Message-ID: <001901c27915$99185ce0$0200a8c0@VAIO1> Howdy! I while back I uploaded my collection of classic BASIC games and Win32 BASIC interpreter to download.com (over 50,000 downloads!). Unfortunately, some of the folks downloading the package were expecting a modern twitch game. So I have a mix of reviews. Generally good ones from those who were expecting classic games, and negative from those expecting Doom. Anyway, If you've got a moment, it would be great if you could try it and rate it with your honest option. The link is: http://download.com.com/3000-2115-10109180.html?tag=lst-0-1 Thanks! Anthony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021021/19702532/attachment.html From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 21 10:26:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Troll on imsai.net? In-Reply-To: <8D3112E09D20A14CBDE1502C2EF752900A1719@scpdc.sourcecode.co.za> References: <8D3112E09D20A14CBDE1502C2EF752900A1719@scpdc.sourcecode.co.za> Message-ID: <1884211325.20021021102733@subatomix.com> On Monday, October 21, 2002, JD Gouws wrote: > Then why go at length to describe the W.O.P.R. lettering and the BASF > disks. That's how trolls work. They have that kind of stuff to make them seem more realistic and to get the reader emotionally involved. The kid is autistic for just that reason, because we think of autistic kids both as retards and as genii -- a perfect condition to inspire the philanthropic giveaway of a computer that takes serious programming knowledge to use. There are obvious problems with this troll. One is that WOPR (from the movie Wargames) was *not* the IMSAI 8080. WOPR was a big-ass computer in the NORAD facility. The IMSAI was the David's home computer. David ran a terminal emuator and dialed into WOPR from his home. The troll just wants his free IMSAI to have some silk-screened lettering, probably to boost an eBay sale. Oops #0. Second, I think that the 8" disk would be marked "SSDD", not "Single Sided Double Density", but I really haven't seen enough 8" disks to firmly decide that. Oops #1. Third, the troll says "Thank you in advance for any information you may have". What information is *Fischer* going to have about the allegedly stolen computer? What, is he going to say "Oh, yes, Jim stole that. Let me give you his address and phone number"? Oops #2. Sorry, IMSAI. YHBT. HAND. -- Jeffrey Sharp From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 21 10:46:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Troll on imsai.net? In-Reply-To: <8D3112E09D20A14CBDE1502C2EF752900A1719@scpdc.sourcecode.co.za> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, JD Gouws wrote: > Then why go at length to describe the W.O.P.R. lettering and the BASF > disks. To make the plea seem authentic. > There is also mention to directly contact the authorities something a > scammer would want to avoid at all costs. Even the handover of such a > system if it's dontated to a boy would be caught out once there is no > boy to receive it. I'm not impugning Todd; he's just passing the message along. I've heard of people trying stupider things. > Thieves are usually dumb, in South Africa we had thieves in the 80's > that stole computers and tried to sell them as vcr's/type writers/all > kinds of other creative names. They also might have thought the heavier > the more worth.. It depends on what kind of burglary this was. Most are usually smash and grab. Thieves don't usually try to heft a 100 pound computer out a window. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From 520055239069-0001 at t-online.de Mon Oct 21 11:18:00 2002 From: 520055239069-0001 at t-online.de (Harald Husemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: HP 735: Searching for pre-compiled bash In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021019135709.00abbeb0@pop.softhome.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021019135709.00abbeb0@pop.softhome.net> Message-ID: <200210192325.31778.bofh@dh9dat.de> Hi there, I just "won" a HP 735, and got it working. I've installed HP-UX 10.20 today (there was HP 9.x installed), but I miss my favorite shell: The bash... I just can't deal with ksh or sh, :-) Anyone has a pre-compiled version for 10.20?! Just searched the www, and HP's software pool, but didnt't find it. Just a version for HP-UX 11, and the source tarball, but since I don't have a compiler, I can't compile it, :-( It would be really nice if someone could send me the bin's via e-mail! kind regards, Harald From smj at crash.com Mon Oct 21 11:21:59 2002 From: smj at crash.com (Steven M. Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: X marks the deck (was Re: [OT] paper on Retro ?) Message-ID: <200210200627.g9K6Rrj05775@buserr.crash.com> > Who remembers drawing a cross or a diagonal line on the top of the card > deck, so you had some chance of re-ordering the deck if someone dropped the > box? Not quite the same order of tragedy, but many may recall drawing X's across the top end of the labels of (boxes of) 3.5" floppies full of, say, Retrospect Remote backups of Mac Pluses. And in this case you _could_ use it for sorting the inevitable shuffled deck... Sigh. You can tell I never worked with cards - I sortof wish I could dig up a reader and punch... It seems like it might be fun (so long as I can go back to my nice X11 desktop the instant I get tired of it ;^) --Steve. From lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net Mon Oct 21 11:23:13 2002 From: lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net (linc fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: The naming of Servers (was Re: A Momentous Decision) In-Reply-To: <0E276FDE-E3F4-11D6-B377-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: tic -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com Mon Oct 21 11:23:49 2002 From: kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: HP 2647A / F Terminal References: Message-ID: <3DB25144.5320FC4C@reeltapetransfer.com> I just happen to have a 2647A User's manual and a 2647A Reference Manual [no terminal]. User manual, CH. 6, starts: This section describes briefly how to load the BASIC interpreter from your BASIC Multiplot cartridge tape (part no. 02647-13301). Sounds like you need a tape. Keven Miller kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com From kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com Mon Oct 21 11:24:25 2002 From: kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Another LA request References: <019501c273ae$2a9c8640$9701a8c0@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3DB25257.37733A11@reeltapetransfer.com> A couple years ago I picked up an ISA-HPIB card from eBay for $101.00. It came with the manual and software "HP-IB Command Library for MS-DOS." Haven't had the time to get into it yet. Keven Miller kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com Jay West wrote: > > I'm looking for a floppy drive for my 1631D LA... I thought I had one > already but just realized I never got it. Soooo > > Anyone have a spare 9122S or 9122D available? Someday I hope to find a HP-IB > interface for a PeeCee cheap, but from what I've seen those are still > commanding (relatively) high dollars. > > Jay West From sorcipit at csportneuf.qc.ca Mon Oct 21 11:25:06 2002 From: sorcipit at csportneuf.qc.ca (Sorcipit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 Message-ID: <006201c2789c$a2fcc120$e4a36e42@globetrotter.net> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Picture 8.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 71794 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021021/ff21ac8a/Picture8.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Picture 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 45094 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021021/ff21ac8a/Picture1.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Picture 13.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 39297 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021021/ff21ac8a/Picture13.jpg From curt at curtgowan.com Mon Oct 21 11:25:57 2002 From: curt at curtgowan.com (Curt Gowan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Toshiba 3100/20's with schematics and service manual Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20021021050031.00a3d0c0@mail.earthlink.net> I have two Toshiba 3100/20 plasma display 286 systems. Both working except that one has a dead hard drive. Excellent condition. Have the schematics and service manual, user docs, software. Anybody want them? --cg From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 21 11:26:38 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Tandy XENIX Disks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1736687586.20021021110849@subatomix.com> On Sunday, October 20, 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: > On a related note - If anyone has a TRS-80 Model 12/16/6000 keyboard > suffering from keys that have a lack of bounce, removing the keycap and > stretching the spring out a little works wonders. Did you ever figure out how to fix the common TRS-80 "have to press the key hard for a keystroke to register" problem that we were having a few months ago with my M4? Other than "press the key very hard"? I'm afraid I'll break something! :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Oct 21 11:38:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 In-Reply-To: <006201c2789c$a2fcc120$e4a36e42@globetrotter.net> Message-ID: The last time I checked, IBM didn't make any snowmobile-shaped computers... You might want to try including the correct pictures. -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Sorcipit wrote: > I have an IBM 5100 for sell. I also have the printer 5103 and the > external tape drive. > > All the documentations are presents, the components are in good shape. > The power supply of the 5100 need to be repair. > > I include some pictures of it. > > Thx. > From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Mon Oct 21 12:44:00 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: ASR33 linefeed solved! So here is the next ASR problem....... Message-ID: <3DAA83C6000D4B51@mta12n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) The problem with my ASR33's linefeed has been traced to a disintegrated piece of plastic on the upstop bracket of the linefeed linkage. (item no. 18708) Without this plastic piece the upstop vertical adjustment range is too small for a reliable linefeed. A few windings of plastic tape did the trick. My ASR now prints out a sourcecode papertape quite nicely. Thanks for all the tips. As to WD40 : I never use the stuff... The next, and hopefull last problem of my ASR : the keyboard. It sometimes misses a bit ( B becomes A etc. ) This is more than likely curable by adjusting or replacing the contact wires. However the keyboard also quite often gives out 2 characters for each key pressed. I am at a loss as to what could cause this behavior. Tips anyone ? My ASR33 came with a reasonable number of original replacement parts. Should anybody be in dire need of a part to get her/his ASR running again... Jos Dreesen. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Oct 21 13:09:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <007701c27911$084771a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: Various naming schemes I've used in the past: * cheeses * beers * cartoon characters * candies * serial killers * famous and infamous duos (for paired servers) * automobiles * islands * dead Soviet leaders -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Oct 21 13:18:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > Well, my firewall/router is Dragon, my Sun Ultra 1 with Solaris 9 > is Gandalf, my VaxStation 3100 will be Hobgoblin, the two Cabletron hubs > will be MiddleEarth and RiverStyx. I have a x86 box (Solaris 8) that will > be Halfling, and Frodo (probably) for my DEC 3000/400... > Any other suggestions on this theme? For starters, you could network them all using a token ring. Bilbo, Aragorn, Legolas, Samwise, Pippin, Gimli, Galadriel, Arwen, Eowyn, Saruman, Sauron, Faramir, Theoden, etc... -brian. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Oct 21 13:27:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] Message-ID: Don't you mean network them all using a Tolken Ring? -----Original Message----- From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 1:20 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > Well, my firewall/router is Dragon, my Sun Ultra 1 with Solaris 9 > is Gandalf, my VaxStation 3100 will be Hobgoblin, the two Cabletron hubs > will be MiddleEarth and RiverStyx. I have a x86 box (Solaris 8) that will > be Halfling, and Frodo (probably) for my DEC 3000/400... > Any other suggestions on this theme? For starters, you could network them all using a token ring. ^^^^^ Bilbo, Aragorn, Legolas, Samwise, Pippin, Gimli, Galadriel, Arwen, Eowyn, Saruman, Sauron, Faramir, Theoden, etc... -brian. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 21 13:29:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:10 2005 Subject: ASR33 linefeed solved! So here is the next ASR problem....... Message-ID: <200210211830.LAA28344@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "jos.mar" > > > >The problem with my ASR33's linefeed has been traced to a disintegrated piece >of plastic on the upstop bracket of the linefeed linkage. (item no. 18708) >Without this plastic piece the upstop vertical adjustment range is too small >for a reliable linefeed. A few windings of plastic tape did the trick. >My ASR now prints out a sourcecode papertape quite nicely. > >Thanks for all the tips. As to WD40 : I never use the stuff... > >The next, and hopefull last problem of my ASR : the keyboard. >It sometimes misses a bit ( B becomes A etc. ) This is more than likely >curable by adjusting or replacing the contact wires. >However the keyboard also quite often gives out 2 characters for each key >pressed. I am at a loss as to what could cause this behavior. Tips anyone ? Hi It is more likely that you just nees to clean the contact surfaces, rather than replacing the wires. They are plated and should last a lifetime. The double printing is most likely that the keyboard isn't getting reset after a key is hit. There is a bell crank that connects the printer to the keyboard that is to reset the keyboard and lock out a double key. It is most likely that the travel on this isn't enough. Check the manual, there is an adjustment someplace. Here is a trick that I used when I was in the service. Things happen so fast in a teletype ( I worked on the older Klienshmit type with the moving box ) that it is often hard to tell just what is causing problems. I has a switch on with some wire that I could use to shut the motor off, without turning off the rest of the power. The motor power is on a screw strip, someplace. I could then turn on the main power with the motor on and lock up all of the clutches. I could then turn the motor off and run things from the keyboard manually by turning the fan on the motor. One can't see everything this way because may things have an interial effect but it was a lot of help. Make sure that if a clutch is tripped that you get it fully locked again. When the motor is spinning fast this isn't a problem but manually, they won't lockup and will drag. It is hard to describe this in text but you squeeze the latch part that catches on the clutches. Some time the clutches don't latch up on a powerup. I always hit a key on each power up to make sure they are not dragging. If they are dragging, you'll burn up a clutch in just a few minutes. Manually, you should be able to stop things, while the keyboard wires are making contact. You can then check each one for voltage drop as the distributer selects each to the printer. You can find an open, quickly, this way. Dwight > >My ASR33 came with a reasonable number of original replacement parts. Should > anybody be in dire need of a part to get her/his ASR running again... > > > > > Jos Dreesen. > > From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Oct 21 13:32:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: IMS 5000 Power Supply Specs? In-Reply-To: References: <3DB1CAD1.32462.3371736@localhost> Message-ID: <3DB3E472.10165.B6B83FF@localhost> Sorry, typo. Working too much with IMSAI lately. > On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Mike Davis wrote: > > > I have just come across an IMSAI 5000 Power Supply in original box > > (amoung my vintage parts) but it does not have a manual. I was > > thinking about powering it up tomorrow to power a small S-100 > > chassis I have. > > > > It has four terminals that say +8, +8, +16, -16. Looks like the > > right voltages for the S-100 but I was wondering about the specs on > > this board. How much current can one get on the +8 terminals. > > > > Also, there is one connector with all of these voltages and 4 other > > connectors above it on the left. Are these for disk drives or such? > > > > There is a photo at: http://www.msdsite.com/vcomp/ims/ims5000.jpg > > Just a correction: IMS International != IMSAI > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Oct 21 13:47:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: IIRC, isn't it Tolkien? Anyhow, I think he was going for the audible there... I shoudl've seen these coming... On 10/21/02, Feldman, Robert scribbled: > Don't you mean network them all using a Tolken Ring? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] > > On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Well, my firewall/router is Dragon, my Sun Ultra 1 with Solaris 9 > > is Gandalf, my VaxStation 3100 will be Hobgoblin, the two Cabletron hubs > > will be MiddleEarth and RiverStyx. I have a x86 box (Solaris 8) that will > > be Halfling, and Frodo (probably) for my DEC 3000/400... > > Any other suggestions on this theme? > > For starters, you could network them all using a token ring. > ^^^^^ > > Bilbo, Aragorn, Legolas, Samwise, Pippin, Gimli, Galadriel, Arwen, > Eowyn, Saruman, Sauron, Faramir, Theoden, etc... > > -brian. > -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Oct 21 13:55:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] References: Message-ID: <003901c27933$aa3099c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Someone wrote... > > Don't you mean network them all using a Tolken Ring? Ya know, when I was back in college, the term "token ring" had a completely different meaning (chuckle) --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 21 13:56:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Troll on imsai.net? In-Reply-To: <8D3112E09D20A14CBDE1502C2EF752900A1719@scpdc.sourcecode.co.za> Message-ID: It's hard to debunk some hoaxes. There is always a CHANCE that it might be real! And those who believe it will think that you are a heartless asshole just for questioning it. On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, JD Gouws wrote: > Then why go at length to describe the W.O.P.R. lettering and the BASF > disks? To add credibility. The idea is that some otherwise non-gullible people will fall for it by taking the reasoning of: > Then why go at length to describe the W.O.P.R. lettering and the BASF > disks? Why say that the 8" diskettes are 12"? > handover of such a system if it's dontated to a boy would be caught > out once there is no boy to receive it. If you were to respond to it, they'll want you to ship it; for some reason, the boy isn't available this week, ... There's a guy in Nigeria who wants to transfer a whole lotta embezzled money into my bank account, . . . I wonder if he'd pay for a replacement machine? > Is there ANY chance that the ink from pens/markers can damage a CD > over a long period of time? I'm marking my cds with a black marker > that has Xylene in it. Aint these inks acidic? I dont want to recover > all my paper tapes to CD only to find after 20 years that the ink > markings ate away the surface.. 1) I heard that such marks, particularly around the circumference CAN interfere with the proper functioning of one of the copy protection schemes! From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Oct 21 14:12:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: HP 2647A / F Terminal Message-ID: Thanks for the info, but that's a bummer since I have no software media with the 2647F that I have, and it might not be too likely that I will ever find any. My guess is that the difference between the 2647A and 2647F is that the A model uses tapes while the F model uses floppies. I have two 5.25" drives for my F model and it does not have tape drives, and apparently tapes were not options on the F model. I have an HP '84 catalog which lists the 2647F (at around $9000) but not the 2647A. Does anyone have a service manual for 264x terminals? If they have full schematics and firmware info at least I could try writing 8085 code to run on my 2647F if I find a copy of one. From looking inside it looks like it has 128KB of DRAM (must be paged somehow) and 12 ROM chips of unknown size. Also it looks like the floppy controller has it's own Z80 and ROM and a WD 1791 controller. This might make a interesting project (aka timesink) trying to figure out how it works and how to do someting with it other than use it as a terminal. I have a 264x loader rom in my HP 2117F so maybe I can get it load code from a floppy on the 2647F (it appears that you can set a file on a floppy to respond to tape commands). That would be another project in itself since I don't have any documentation on the 264x loader rom nor do I know if I even have a serial interface card that it supports. -Glen >From: kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctech@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: HP 2647A / F Terminal >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:46:28 -0600 > >I just happen to have a 2647A User's manual >and a 2647A Reference Manual [no terminal]. > >User manual, CH. 6, starts: >This section describes briefly how to load >the BASIC interpreter from your BASIC >Multiplot cartridge tape (part no. 02647-13301). > >Sounds like you need a tape. > >Keven Miller >kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From red at bears.org Mon Oct 21 14:25:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [ was: Re: A Momentous Decision ] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Might as well throw in my two cents on server names. I always figured machines were happier when they had real names, so I've always been opposed to names like 'mblv002' or 'mail'. That's what CNAME records are for. I like postindustrial consumer icons, though I've got a few other parallel namespaces going in my lab at home. - wingnut, umbrella, potentiometer, wurlitzer, eightball, eggo, - synthemesc, rapidograph, boesendorfer, diesel, sunroof... For a while I had a bunch of NEXTSTEP systems named for characters in the Asterix comic. - asterix, obelix, dogmatix, geriatrix, getafix, cacophonix, - vitalstatistix I started out with European political figures on compact Macintoshes. - Napoleon, Churchill, Bismarck, Preminger Later on I moved to Richard Scarry, when bigger Macs started coming in. - Bugdozer, Tillie, Pig Won't, Lowly Worm I have a low opinion of Linux zealots, so I named those systems appropriately. - booger, drool, epsilon-minus, malibu-barbie I have a Yiddish lexicon of PS/2s - yeshiva, nudnik, nudzh, shmedrick I'd better stop there, I think that's more than 2 cents. I never had the nerve to do this, but there's a treasure trove of hostnames in the Sami names for Swedish mountain peaks. You can start off lightly and work up from there. keb, akka, nammatj, sjnjerek, sjnjuftjutis ok r. From donm at cts.com Mon Oct 21 14:49:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Troll on imsai.net? In-Reply-To: <1884211325.20021021102733@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Monday, October 21, 2002, JD Gouws wrote: > > Then why go at length to describe the W.O.P.R. lettering and the BASF > > disks. > > That's how trolls work. They have that kind of stuff to make them seem more > realistic and to get the reader emotionally involved. The kid is autistic > for just that reason, because we think of autistic kids both as retards and > as genii -- a perfect condition to inspire the philanthropic giveaway of a > computer that takes serious programming knowledge to use. > > There are obvious problems with this troll. One is that WOPR (from the movie > Wargames) was *not* the IMSAI 8080. WOPR was a big-ass computer in the NORAD > facility. The IMSAI was the David's home computer. David ran a terminal > emuator and dialed into WOPR from his home. The troll just wants his free > IMSAI to have some silk-screened lettering, probably to boost an eBay sale. > Oops #0. > > Second, I think that the 8" disk would be marked "SSDD", not "Single Sided > Double Density", but I really haven't seen enough 8" disks to firmly decide > that. Oops #1. Rather depends on who made them and when. For instance, I have some Dysan 8" disks that say '3740/1D' and others that say 'Single Sided Single Density'. - don > Third, the troll says "Thank you in advance for any information you may > have". What information is *Fischer* going to have about the allegedly > stolen computer? What, is he going to say "Oh, yes, Jim stole that. Let me > give you his address and phone number"? Oops #2. > > Sorry, IMSAI. YHBT. HAND. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > > From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 21 15:28:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: HP 2647A / F Terminal References: Message-ID: <028e01c27940$9478ae80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > ...since I have no software media < with the 2647F that I have... Since the tape based terminals of that era did not rely on the tape for an os (it was ROMmed), perhaps the *F series also has control of the drives using only ROMware. The way I remember it working is that a combination of Top Key presses would result in commandlines like so: COPY DISPLAY to PRINTER COPY LTAPE to RTAPE COPY DISPLAY to RTAPE That sort of thing. To try before you give up. John A. From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Oct 21 16:02:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Dauphin DTR-1 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021020122312.432fcca4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DB424E3.20566.6B3ABF0@localhost> Hi Joe. Damn I've been looking for one of those at a reasonable price for over a year now. ! There was/is a DTR- 1 mailing list. Try http://www.cc.gatech.edu/fce/hardware/dtr1-mail/maillist.html Lawrence > I went to a small local hamfest yesterday and picked up a DTR-1. It's complete > and includes all the accessories including the original boxs, papers, SW > disks, manuals, PSU, slide off cover, pouch, external floppy. The only thing > wrong with it is the battery is dead (no problem, 6 A size NiMH cells) and the > hard drive has zillions of errors. I'm attempting to reformat the hard drive > but the previous owner says that the drive is bad and needs to be replaced. > Does anyone have a HP 40 Mb 1.3 inch KittyHawk drive that you're willing to > part with? Or does anyone know if anyone ever came up with a way to install a > different drive such as one of the PCMCIA drives or the IBM Microdrive in it? > > > Joe > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 21 16:04:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: uyk-20? In-Reply-To: <16952935196.20021019093355@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20021021210550.61741.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > I need a Teletype for my PDP-11/20.... If you intend on using it to read in paper tapes, you'll want to make sure it has the standard DEC "reader run" relay enhancment (extra circuit and current loop to let the CPU step the reader one char at a time. Ordinary if the TTY comes from a DEC machine; atypical if it was used for simple text input/output. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Oct 21 16:09:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: HP 2647A / F Terminal Message-ID: The 'os' is in ROM on the 2647F and I can get to the command line to format floppies and create and copy files and such. It is just that BASIC is not in ROM so doing more interesting things other than using it as a terminal will take more work. I did find a little bit of information on the web and you can send it a sequence like this to enter and execute 8085 code: ESC & b (at this point the display says "LOADER")
a d ... and so on d
a E I wrote a loop to cycle reading every byte in the address space and I attached a logic analyzer to verify that the code was executing. Since I can do that I should be able to capture the ROM code and then unassemble it and then maybe figure out how to read the keyboard and write to the display and then do some more interesting things with it. Anyone on the list happen to have an HP 10304B 8085 processor probe? -Glen >From: "John Allain" >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: >Subject: Re: HP 2647A / F Terminal >Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:29:38 -0400 > >+AD4- ...since I have no software media >+ADw- with the 2647F that I have... > >Since the tape based terminals of that era did >not rely on the tape for an os (it was ROMmed), >perhaps the +ACo-F series also has control of the >drives using only ROMware. > >The way I remember it working is that a combination >of Top Key presses would result in commandlines like so: > COPY DISPLAY to PRINTER > COPY LTAPE to RTAPE > COPY DISPLAY to RTAPE >That sort of thing. >To try before you give up. > >John A. _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Oct 21 16:18:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: HP 2647A / F Terminal References: Message-ID: <3DB4700D.9040506@tiac.net> The HP1000 264x boot rom uses a common BACI board. I have the source code listing for that boot rom. The protocol is very simple, the HP sends " e" I beleive, and then listens to a stream of bytes to be sent in the HP standard BBL format. This is the same format used for HP paper tapes, so all the software on the HP2100 archive site can be loaded this way. There is no additional handshaking for each byte as it is read. (its also the format used to distribute HP-IPL/OS) This is a quick and easy way to get your 2117F booting. Glen Slick wrote: > Thanks for the info, but that's a bummer since I have no software > media with the 2647F that I have, and it might not be too likely that > I will ever find any. > > My guess is that the difference between the 2647A and 2647F is that > the A model uses tapes while the F model uses floppies. I have two > 5.25" drives for my F model and it does not have tape drives, and > apparently tapes were not options on the F model. I have an HP '84 > catalog which lists the 2647F (at around $9000) but not the 2647A. > > Does anyone have a service manual for 264x terminals? If they have > full schematics and firmware info at least I could try writing 8085 > code to run on my 2647F if I find a copy of one. From looking inside > it looks like it has 128KB of DRAM (must be paged somehow) and 12 ROM > chips of unknown size. Also it looks like the floppy controller has > it's own Z80 and ROM and a WD 1791 controller. > > This might make a interesting project (aka timesink) trying to figure > out how it works and how to do someting with it other than use it as a > terminal. > > I have a 264x loader rom in my HP 2117F so maybe I can get it load > code from a floppy on the 2647F (it appears that you can set a file on > a floppy to respond to tape commands). That would be another project > in itself since I don't have any documentation on the 264x loader rom > nor do I know if I even have a serial interface card that it supports. > > -Glen > > >> From: kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) >> Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> To: cctech@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Re: HP 2647A / F Terminal >> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:46:28 -0600 >> >> I just happen to have a 2647A User's manual >> and a 2647A Reference Manual [no terminal]. >> >> User manual, CH. 6, starts: >> This section describes briefly how to load >> the BASIC interpreter from your BASIC >> Multiplot cartridge tape (part no. 02647-13301). >> >> Sounds like you need a tape. >> >> Keven Miller >> kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband. Join now! > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Oct 21 16:52:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: HP 2647A / F Terminal & HP1000 Message-ID: I do have a 12966A BACI interface in my 2117F, but unfortunately no interface cable for it (or for any of the other interface cards in the system). Anyone have a spare cable for some sort of reasonable deal? -Glen >From: Bob Shannon >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: HP 2647A / F Terminal >Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:22:21 -0400 > >The HP1000 264x boot rom uses a common BACI board. I have the source code >listing for that >boot rom. > >The protocol is very simple, the HP sends " e" I beleive, and then >listens to a stream of bytes to be sent in the HP standard BBL format. >This is the same format used for HP paper tapes, so all the software on the >HP2100 archive site can be loaded this way. There is no additional >handshaking for each byte as it is read. > >(its also the format used to distribute HP-IPL/OS) > >This is a quick and easy way to get your 2117F booting. _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!  Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Oct 21 17:29:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 MUX cable? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've got an early MicroVAX 3100; one of the ones that just reads "MicroVAX 3100" across the front. On the back of the system there are three MMJ serial ports identified as 1-3, there's an DB-25M port which I'd imagine is serial port 0 (the console), and beneath that is a 36-pin Centronics style connector labelled 4-11 with the DEC serial port pictograph beneath it. I'd gather this is for some sort of serial port cable "octopus." Does anyone have a spare one of these cables or a part number for this cable? Thanks. -brian. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Oct 21 17:41:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [ was: Re: A Momentous Decision ] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021021183938.00d28634@pop1.epm.net.co> I started with mountain names (heck, everyone does, but then I *really* like some mountains). But I tried to use original names whenever possible (citlaltepetl, popocatepetl, iztaccihuatl, jimulco). Then I followed with aztec deities (coyolxhauqui, chimalpopoca, tezcatlipoca, huitzilopochtli...). Nahuatl language is just great for naming hosts. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Oct 21 18:01:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Les Solomon passed away this weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3DB440BA.12576.7206D49@localhost> I noticed on the page he also wrote under the psuedonym of Lester Del Rey. For some reason that tweaks my old sci-fi memory, but can't identify it. As well as his impressive contribution to electronics did he also write sci-fi ? Lawrence > > I saw this in comp.os.cpm, but didn't see it here, so for those who don't > read that group, Les Solomon passed away this weekend at the age of 80. > > More details from Stan Veit on http://www.imsai.net/ ... > > I did not know Les, but he definitely led an interesting life, and I know he was > well-respected and cared about ... > > :-( > > Rich B. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Oct 21 18:01:42 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: X marks the deck (was Re: [OT] paper on Retro ?) In-Reply-To: <200210200627.g9K6Rrj05775@buserr.crash.com> Message-ID: <3DB440BA.25133.7206D71@localhost> The real test of a card person is how well he "hips" up the cards in order to get them perfectly alligned before submitting them to a sorter and not jamming up the machine. Most sorters had a little L-shaped plastic rig on the right end for you to do this. Your left hand heel would butt them while your right hand loosely held them. Cards that were "bent, folded, or spindalled" were duplicated or re copied by the card-punch operators. I was pretty good but it took many instances of having to unjam the sorters before I got the hang of it. A far cry from 5.25 floppies and their much enhanced abilitiy to store data. And coffee-talk was about this kid "Elvis" who had appeared on the Ed Sullivan show. Mid-50s and I was classified as a "jr. IBM operator" at $35 a week which was raised to $37.50 after 3 months. Nontheless I was able to pay my rent and catch a lot of memorable jazz greats at bars in Toronto such as Clifford Brown, John Coltrane, and Billie Holliday. In rereading this it sounds like the old fart I am. But always current in perspective !! :^) Lawrence Lawrence > > Who remembers drawing a cross or a diagonal line on the top of the card > > deck, so you had some chance of re-ordering the deck if someone dropped the > > box? > > Not quite the same order of tragedy, but many may recall drawing X's across the > top end of the labels of (boxes of) 3.5" floppies full of, say, Retrospect > Remote backups of Mac Pluses. And in this case you _could_ use it for sorting > the inevitable shuffled deck... > > Sigh. You can tell I never worked with cards - I sortof wish I could dig up a > reader and punch... It seems like it might be fun (so long as I can go back to > my nice X11 desktop the instant I get tired of it ;^) > > --Steve. > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Oct 21 18:02:29 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: help! rate classic basic games In-Reply-To: <001901c27915$99185ce0$0200a8c0@VAIO1> Message-ID: <3DB440B9.18479.7206D13@localhost> Pearls to swine. Of course C-net isn't exactly a venue of classic computing. You are to be lauded for releasing these into PD. Little do these kids realize the hours of programming that went into them. I've seen kids who were into the ultra-graphic games get totally involved on an Atari 2600. I haven't gone thru them yet and don't know if the Win32 interreter is required :^( but at first sight, I look forward to checking them out, once I get past the workload I have with my old boxes. On the other hand, a good game gets the creative juices flowing (standard disclaimer for slacking) . Lawrence > Howdy! > > I while back I uploaded my collection of classic BASIC games and Win32 BASIC > interpreter to download.com (over 50,000 downloads!). Unfortunately, some of > the folks downloading the package were expecting a modern twitch game. So I > have a mix of reviews. Generally good ones from those who were expecting > classic games, and negative from those expecting Doom. Anyway, If you've got a > moment, it would be great if you could try it and rate it with your honest > option. The link is: > http://download.com.com/3000-2115-10109180.html?tag=lst-0-1 > > Thanks! > Anthony > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From gil at vauxelectronics.com Mon Oct 21 18:08:01 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021021161426.0097b160@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi folks: I am curious what your favorite cp/m system might be. I am getting an itch for some late-70/early-80/pre-msdos kind of box. Of the transportables, I recall working with a kaypro years ago that seemed decent, but I've also been thinking about an osborne. I'm not sure whether there is anything in an s-100 design that I should look at. I'd like to get something that is reasonably priced, yet still collectible. With enough decent apps around, and a modest user base (nothing too obscure, that is). Any thoughts appreciated -- thanks, gil smith ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From menadeau at attbi.com Mon Oct 21 18:19:01 2002 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision References: <34DC8408-E3CB-11D6-9667-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> <1035001972.20393.10.camel@supermicro> <007701c27911$084771a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <004d01c27958$1d891040$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> In the early 1990s, I got a tour of one of the networking labs at Bell Labs. I noticed that all the servers were labeled with names--all characters from The Little Mermaid. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 10:49 AM Subject: Re: A Momentous Decision > At my last job, I always named servers after precious stones - too many > sites I saw were using greek/roman gods or planet names.... so a partial > list would be.... > > jade > amethyst > amber > coral > garnet > ruby > emerald > diamond > sapphire > onyx > opal > > But at the new job, we're using things associated with the grateful dead heh > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 21 18:22:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: 8272 FDC commands, release of dmklib (was Re: Reading old disks on Linux) In-Reply-To: <33040.64.169.63.74.1035071479.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > > A: If you read a header, can you process the data, and be ready to read > > again in less than 1/50 of a second? Ifnot, then you could read even > > numbered headers on one revolution, and odd numbered on another. On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > The READ ID HEADER command doesn't give you a choice as to what header > you're going to read; it just grabs the next one that comes around. So > if you want to know the exact sequence of headers on the track, you have > to be able to process them in real time. Absolutely right. That's why I said that you'd have about 1/50 of a second. (1/2 that for 256 bytes per sector). > You also don't inherently get any information on the positioning of the > IDs with regard to the index pulse. If you want that information, you > should do a read track, and then start reading IDs as soon as the read > track completes. For reading data, the physical sequence of the sectors normally won't matter. much. Some machines were too slow to be able to handle a 1:1 interleave, so they would rearrange the sequence of the sectors, so that there would be another sector between #1 and #2 to give you more time to process a sector before looking for the next one. Using a 1:1 interleave on a machine that was too slow for it would result in needing one full revolution for each sector. Another approach was to keep the physical sector numbering sequential, but to use sectors in a non-sequential order. THAT requires study of the code of the system, or looking at the contents of sectors to try to determine what sequence they were probably used in. Another minor gotcha: machines that used WDC179x disk controller chips were capable of starting their first sector sooner after the index pulse than those using NEC 765 series. Reading those with a 765 required disabling ther index pulse. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Oct 21 18:32:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Les Solomon passed away this weekend In-Reply-To: <3DB440BA.12576.7206D49@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Oct 21, 2002 06:00:26 PM Message-ID: <200210212333.g9LNXg221021@shell1.aracnet.com> Well, "Del Rey" was the imprint that Ballantine Books sold Sci-Fi/Fantasy under starting in 1977 (this included Star Wars, as I recall). It looks like it now belongs to Random House. From their website (couldn't totally remember the Ballantine name so had to look it up), "It was begun by editor Judy-Lynn del Rey with editoria assistance of her husband, author and editor Lester del Rey". Are they the same person? Zane > I noticed on the page he also wrote under the psuedonym of Lester Del Rey. > For some reason that tweaks my old sci-fi memory, but can't identify it. > As well as his impressive contribution to electronics did he also write sci-fi ? > > Lawrence > > > > > I saw this in comp.os.cpm, but didn't see it here, so for those who don't > > read that group, Les Solomon passed away this weekend at the age of 80. > > > > More details from Stan Veit on http://www.imsai.net/ ... > > > > I did not know Les, but he definitely led an interesting life, and I know he was > > well-respected and cared about ... > > > > :-( > > > > Rich B. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 21 18:38:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: ASR33 linefeed solved! So here is the next ASR problem....... In-Reply-To: <3DAA83C6000D4B51@mta12n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) from "jos.mar" at Oct 21, 2 10:11:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1003 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021021/4335fdef/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 21 18:38:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: ASR33 linefeed solved! So here is the next ASR problem....... In-Reply-To: <3DAA83C6000D4B51@mta12n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) from "jos.mar" at Oct 21, 2 10:11:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1213 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021021/c3e4b17d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 21 18:43:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021021161426.0097b160@mail.vauxelectronics.com> from "gil smith" at Oct 21, 2 04:14:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 414 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021021/a135a82c/attachment.ksh From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 21 18:52:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: 8272 FDC commands, release of dmklib (was Re: Reading old disks on Linux) Message-ID: <200210212353.QAA28609@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > > >Another minor gotcha: machines that used WDC179x disk controller chips >were capable of starting their first sector sooner after the index pulse >than those using NEC 765 series. Reading those with a 765 required >disabling ther index pulse. Hi I always wondered why some PC's didn't care if the drive had a index hole or not to read the disk. It would care for formatting but not for read/write. Dwight From altertech at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Oct 21 18:53:01 2002 From: altertech at blueyonder.co.uk (Rob Hamadi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Les Solomon passed away this weekend In-Reply-To: <200210212333.g9LNXg221021@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <3DB440BA.12576.7206D49@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021022004755.02768190@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk> Google leads us to: http://www.hycyber.com/SF/delrey_lester.html which says (and is confirmed on other sites): Lester del Rey Birth name: Ramon Felipe San Juan Mario Silvio Enrico Smith Heathcourt-Brace Sierra y Alvarez-del Rey de los Verdes 1915 - 1993 So apparently not. I do love old SF though, there's this underlying atmosphere of what I can only call "Decency". But then I also like Kevin Jeter & Norman Spinrad so go figure. Rob At 12:33 AM 10/22/02, Zane wrote: >Well, "Del Rey" was the imprint that Ballantine Books sold Sci-Fi/Fantasy >under starting in 1977 (this included Star Wars, as I recall). It looks >like it now belongs to Random House. From their website (couldn't totally >remember the Ballantine name so had to look it up), "It was begun by >editor Judy-Lynn del Rey with editoria assistance of her husband, author and >editor Lester del Rey". Are they the same person? > > Zane > > > I noticed on the page he also wrote under the psuedonym of Lester Del Rey. > > For some reason that tweaks my old sci-fi memory, but can't identify it. > > As well as his impressive contribution to electronics did he also write > sci-fi ? > > > > Lawrence > > > > > > > > I saw this in comp.os.cpm, but didn't see it here, so for those who > don't > > > read that group, Les Solomon passed away this weekend at the age of 80. > > > > > > More details from Stan Veit on http://www.imsai.net/ ... > > > > > > I did not know Les, but he definitely led an interesting life, and I > know he was > > > well-respected and cared about ... > > > > > > :-( > > > > > > Rich B. > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Oct 21 18:55:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [ was: Re: A Momentous Decision ] In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021021183938.00d28634@pop1.epm.net.co> References: Message-ID: <3DB44D71.16245.7521B5A@localhost> I'm sorry but you guys are weird. Unless required by some @!@#$! net system driven by paranoid corporate business concerns, I call my computers by what they are. Maybe the Grid 1520 with the failed HD when I have multiples, or the pristine PC that I have to do work on to distinguish it from my other ones that are referred to with identifying characteristics. Not that I don't have machines which I dote on, but they are not interactive pets like my dog or former cats or even some acquaintances who I name but have infrequent contact with. In this world of dehumanization it is well to remember that "Hal" is only a machine no matter how powerfull or lifelike. The state machine is removed enough that we need not concern ourselves with familiarity yet it affects our every action. The trends like "pet rocks" are only indications of our alienation from society in general. Rocks,as most inanimate things, like computers, demand little response and most of us take the easy way and identify with that which gives us the least amount of trouble. This analysis falls down when we consider the amount of time we can spend on some obdurate computer that refuses to respond to our tender care. But then again we are a spot weird, and not to be confused with ordinary mortals. A tech support for the goddessess of Delphi. And Death to the invading forces of Microsloth. Lawrence from society in general. > I started with mountain names (heck, everyone does, but then > I *really* like some mountains). But I tried to use > original names whenever possible (citlaltepetl, popocatepetl, > iztaccihuatl, jimulco). Then I followed with aztec deities > (coyolxhauqui, chimalpopoca, tezcatlipoca, huitzilopochtli...). > Nahuatl language is just great for naming hosts. > > Carlos. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From archer at topnow.com Mon Oct 21 18:59:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Les Solomon passed away this weekend References: Message-ID: <3DB4953A.F92EDB61@topnow.com> Rich Beaudry wrote: > > I saw this in comp.os.cpm, but didn't see it here, so for those who don't > read that group, Les Solomon passed away this weekend at the age of 80. > > More details from Stan Veit on http://www.imsai.net/ ... > > I did not know Les, but he definitely led an interesting life, and I know he > was well-respected and cared about ... > > :-( > > Rich B. This is indeed sad news. For the rest of us, a toast: "May we all live as long and as interesting a life, surrounded by so many people who respect and care about us." > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 21 19:01:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Another LA request In-Reply-To: <3DB25257.37733A11@reeltapetransfer.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Keven Miller wrote: > Jay West wrote: > > > Anyone have a spare 9122S or 9122D available? Someday I hope to find a > > HP-IB interface for a PeeCee cheap, but from what I've seen those are > > still commanding (relatively) high dollars. > > A couple years ago I picked up an ISA-HPIB card from eBay for $101.00. > It came with the manual and software "HP-IB Command Library for MS-DOS." Gosh, do these cards always command such a high price? I think I still have one of those cards around here somewhere that I don't ever see myself putting to use. If I can find it, I may go ahead and make it available as a trade. What exactly are these things good for anyhow? I also have a couple of HP systems, but I've never done much with them, since I didn't have software for them when they were still working. -Toth From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Oct 21 19:08:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: OT: Monitor repair Message-ID: I've got a rebadged Sony GDM-20E20 and GDM-20D11 that have some issues and was wondering if anyone had technical information about them. The E20 seems to have HV ok, but doesn't display any picture - but it appears to be powered up ok. The D11 won't switch out of powersave mode. If anyone has any info, reply to me off-list Pat -- "This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology" -- Anonymous http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Oct 21 19:11:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] References: Message-ID: <003b01c2795f$b8042a90$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 2:19 PM Subject: Re: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] Ok, ok, ok, I give! The VAXcluster consists of (or will consist of when I get a round tuit): BILBO - VAX 6000-320 FRODO - VAXstation 4000-90 MERRY - VAXstation 3100-40 PIPPIN - VAX 4000-200 a few currently-unnamed alpha boxen that will boot into OpenVMS occasionally SAM - '386/40 64MB(!) to watch the guts of a working LAVc The networking equipment: a-ko - HP hub b-ko - Xyplex termserver c-ko - Rylan 10bFL concentrator hehehe! The HP and the Xyplex both hang off the Raylan, and the Xyplex gave me fits getting it to boot-- it's pure evil. Get it? The peaseas are mostly unnamed, but a few notable exceptions: ai-chan - my peasea len-chan - my wifes' peasea (she doesn't know...) Most of the others are waiting for the right Name to occure to me, they mostly get utilitarian names until then > > -brian. Bob From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 21 19:20:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Another LA request Message-ID: <200210220021.RAA28642@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Tothwolf >On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Keven Miller wrote: >> Jay West wrote: >> >> > Anyone have a spare 9122S or 9122D available? Someday I hope to find a >> > HP-IB interface for a PeeCee cheap, but from what I've seen those are >> > still commanding (relatively) high dollars. >> >> A couple years ago I picked up an ISA-HPIB card from eBay for $101.00. >> It came with the manual and software "HP-IB Command Library for MS-DOS." > >Gosh, do these cards always command such a high price? I think I still >have one of those cards around here somewhere that I don't ever see myself >putting to use. If I can find it, I may go ahead and make it available as >a trade. What exactly are these things good for anyhow? I also have a >couple of HP systems, but I've never done much with them, since I didn't >have software for them when they were still working. > >-Toth > > Hi I don't know if I should say anything but there is a pile of 488 cards at HSC that come with manuals and software, new in the box. I paid $35 for it. I haven't looked to see if it is a ISA or what but it is for either PC's or AT's, I just wasn't paying attention. I need to get some cables before I can connect to my meter or power supplies. Dwight From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Oct 21 19:21:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? In-Reply-To: from "gil smith" at Oct 21, 2002 04:14:32 PM Message-ID: <200210220023.g9M0N9h23424@shell1.aracnet.com> > I am curious what your favorite cp/m system might be. I am getting an itch > for some late-70/early-80/pre-msdos kind of box. Of the transportables, I > recall working with a kaypro years ago that seemed decent, but I've also > been thinking about an osborne. I'm not sure whether there is anything in > an s-100 design that I should look at. My favorite would be the Kaypro 2, as it's the one CP/M system that I definitly remember seeing while I was in High School. I got lucky a few years ago, and bought a really nice Kaypro 2 in a carrying case from Paxton. My second most favorite would be the IMSAI-8080 due to it's killer front panel. However, I don't have my IMSAI anywhere near able to run CP/M (I don't even have disks for it). Zane From at258 at osfn.org Mon Oct 21 19:25:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021021161426.0097b160@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: My first choice would be a Xerox 820-II. The nicest CP/M system I've ever used. It is not universally loved though, so it might be easy to get one very reasonably. My second choice would be an Epson QX-10. The ramdrive is a nice feature. There is a cult following though. You could also go with the similar QX-16 which runs CP/M-80 and MS-DOS. My third choice is the the Kaypro. They're excellent machines, just not quite as excellent as my first two choices. On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, gil smith wrote: > Hi folks: > > I am curious what your favorite cp/m system might be. I am getting an itch > for some late-70/early-80/pre-msdos kind of box. Of the transportables, I > recall working with a kaypro years ago that seemed decent, but I've also > been thinking about an osborne. I'm not sure whether there is anything in > an s-100 design that I should look at. > > I'd like to get something that is reasonably priced, yet still collectible. > With enough decent apps around, and a modest user base (nothing too > obscure, that is). > > Any thoughts appreciated -- thanks, > > gil smith > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 > ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 21 19:36:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Index hole on 5.25" disks In-Reply-To: <200210212353.QAA28609@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > >Another minor gotcha: machines that used WDC179x disk controller chips > >were capable of starting their first sector sooner after the index pulse > >than those using NEC 765 series. Reading those with a 765 required > >disabling ther index pulse. On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > I always wondered why some PC's didn't care if the drive had a > index hole or not to read the disk. It would care for formatting > but not for read/write. > Dwight Well, it's only part of the answer. Apple and Commodore (and Atari?) didn't use the index hole at all, so they really don't care. They also didn't CARE when a track started. Since they were single sided, an additional write-enable notch was all that was needed to make them into "flippies". PC, TRS-80, and most systems that used an FDC chip needed the index hole to declare when to start a track when formatting. [slightly over-simplified] To make "flippies" for them required ALSO punching a hole in the jacket for access to the index hole. The RARE/VALUABLE Berkeley Microcomputer Flip-Jig (available once more at VCF!) was the best way to mark the position for punching that hole. Once the disk was formatted, most systems no longer needed the index hole. EXCEPT,... The NEC 765 chips did a RESET [over-simplified again] whenever they saw the index pulse, and couldn't read or write for a short period of time after that. But surely nobody would write sectors so close to the index that they would fall into that reset period - yep. Some did. and, Some drives, such as the Teac 55 series used the index pulse to tell when the drive was up to speed. No index pulse = no ready. When using a 765 to read disks that had a substandard index gap, with many drives (Tandon TM100, etc.), you could cover the index hole on the disk. A write protect tab would work, IF you could get the user to put it on solidly, and not let it fall off in the drive. No index = no RESET, and data could be read immediately after index, or even straddling it. With the Teac drives, that wouldn't work, but you could interrupt that signal on the cable. Mike Gingel (TRS-cross) sold a floppy cable with a SPST switch in it. I used a 34PST inline switch. That way, the drive could see the index (READY), without the FDC seeing it (no RESET). With the index signal interrupted, if a read was successful, fine. But if anything went wrong, the BIOS would return the wrong error code. 128 (not ready), instead of 4 (sector not found) From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 21 19:39:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Another LA request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > A couple years ago I picked up an ISA-HPIB card from eBay for $101.00. > > It came with the manual and software "HP-IB Command Library for MS-DOS." > Gosh, do these cards always command such a high price? NO. HP ones go for a lot. IBM ones get a bit. Tecmar goes for about $1 YMMV From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 21 19:40:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: <003b01c2795f$b8042a90$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: > The VAXcluster consists of (or will consist of when I get a round tuit): > > BILBO - VAX 6000-320 > FRODO - VAXstation 4000-90 > MERRY - VAXstation 3100-40 > PIPPIN - VAX 4000-200 At UC Berkeley: kim noVAX ernie koVAX From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 21 19:51:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:11 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: First choice: Elcompco BMC-80. Quark board (later used Ampro) with 2 5.25" floppies and 5" monitor (AND ~RS-170 NTSC output) built into a Halliburton attache case. They also did a TRS-80 model 3 repackaging and a PC repackaging. The Osborne 1 was released a few hours after it was, and it was discontinued after a few hours due to the difficulty of price competition. VERY scarce. Last choice: CP/M on TRS-80 model 1. FMG (relocated), Parasitic Engineering, Omikron, etc. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 21 19:55:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? Message-ID: <200210220056.RAA28653@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "gil smith" > >Hi folks: > >I am curious what your favorite cp/m system might be. I am getting an itch >for some late-70/early-80/pre-msdos kind of box. Of the transportables, I >recall working with a kaypro years ago that seemed decent, but I've also >been thinking about an osborne. I'm not sure whether there is anything in >an s-100 design that I should look at. > >I'd like to get something that is reasonably priced, yet still collectible. > With enough decent apps around, and a modest user base (nothing too >obscure, that is). > >Any thoughts appreciated -- thanks, > >gil smith > Hi I of course like my Olivetti M20 running CP/M-8000 but for CP/M-80, I like the simplicity of my IMSAI. I have a couple of Kaypro's but they tend to sit unused most of the time. For anyone else that has a Z8000 processor in a machine without an OS, I can now assemble ( or compile C ) a BIOS and link it with a working BDOS/CCP. This is quite a step from where I was a few weeks ago. I haven't fiddle with the Kaypro's enough to get to liking them. I don't even know where the serial ports are in it. I move a lot of data around through serial. It seems to be the easiest way to move things when the disk systems them selves are not compatible. Kaypro II's often go for less than $50 on eBay. They just don't seem to command the same kind of price that others do. I don't know why. They really are nice machines. I guess they just don't have the same appeal as those with front panel lights. Dwight From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Oct 21 20:18:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Les Solomon passed away this weekend References: <3DB440BA.12576.7206D49@localhost> Message-ID: <3DB4A7BD.5000000@eoni.com> Lester Del Rey was a most prolific sci-fi writer. Don't think it's the same person though. Lester del Rey passed in 1993. Jim Lawrence Walker wrote: > I noticed on the page he also wrote under the psuedonym of Lester Del Rey. > For some reason that tweaks my old sci-fi memory, but can't identify it. > As well as his impressive contribution to electronics did he also write sci-fi ? > > Lawrence From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Oct 21 20:20:01 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? References: <3.0.32.20021021161426.0097b160@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3DB4A82A.3040404@eoni.com> I had a Kaypro 10. Wonderful luggable. I didn't have any idea what I'd ever do with a whole 10mb of hard drive... Jim gil smith wrote: > Hi folks: > > I am curious what your favorite cp/m system might be. I am getting an itch > for some late-70/early-80/pre-msdos kind of box. Of the transportables, I > recall working with a kaypro years ago that seemed decent, From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 21 20:21:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Index hole on 5.25" disks Message-ID: <200210220122.SAA28661@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > >> >Another minor gotcha: machines that used WDC179x disk controller chips >> >were capable of starting their first sector sooner after the index pulse >> >than those using NEC 765 series. Reading those with a 765 required >> >disabling ther index pulse. > >On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> Hi >> I always wondered why some PC's didn't care if the drive had a >> index hole or not to read the disk. It would care for formatting >> but not for read/write. >> Dwight > >Well, it's only part of the answer. > >Apple and Commodore (and Atari?) didn't use the index hole at all, so they >really don't care. They also didn't CARE when a track started. Since they >were single sided, an additional write-enable notch was all that was >needed to make them into "flippies". > > >PC, TRS-80, and most systems that used an FDC chip needed the index hole >to declare when to start a track when formatting. [slightly >over-simplified] >To make "flippies" for them required ALSO punching a hole in the jacket >for access to the index hole. > >The RARE/VALUABLE Berkeley Microcomputer Flip-Jig (available once more at >VCF!) was the best way to mark the position for punching that hole. > > > >Once the disk was formatted, most systems no longer needed the index hole. >EXCEPT,... >The NEC 765 chips did a RESET [over-simplified again] whenever they saw >the index pulse, and couldn't read or write for a short period of time >after that. But surely nobody would write sectors so close to the index >that they would fall into that reset period - yep. Some did. >and, >Some drives, such as the Teac 55 series used the index pulse to tell when >the drive was up to speed. No index pulse = no ready. > >When using a 765 to read disks that had a substandard index gap, with many >drives (Tandon TM100, etc.), you could cover the index hole on the >disk. A write protect tab would work, IF you could get the user to put it >on solidly, and not let it fall off in the drive. No index = no RESET, >and data could be read immediately after index, or even straddling it. > >With the Teac drives, that wouldn't work, but you could interrupt that >signal on the cable. Mike Gingel (TRS-cross) sold a floppy cable with a >SPST switch in it. I used a 34PST inline switch. >That way, the drive could see the index (READY), without the FDC seeing it >(no RESET). > >With the index signal interrupted, if a read was successful, fine. But if >anything went wrong, the BIOS would return the wrong error code. 128 (not >ready), instead of 4 (sector not found) > > > Hi Fred You should write a book on "The Realities of the Floppy Disk". I am always enlightened by the interesting tidbit you come up with. I've only fiddle with them enough to know that all isn't what it might seem. It seems that all the rules were broken at one time or the other. Take Care, See you at VCF Dwight From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Oct 21 20:42:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? In-Reply-To: <3DB4A82A.3040404@eoni.com> Message-ID: And the ever popular Otrona, which I personally consider a little nicer than the Kaypros. However, for sheer cool, nothing beat the IMSAI. One day, I will have space to light mine up again. Living on a houseboat is great, but sometimes the space issue is a little frusterating. Like there's no room for a PDP/11 here... --John gil smith wrote: > Hi folks: > > I am curious what your favorite cp/m system might be. I am getting an itch > for some late-70/early-80/pre-msdos kind of box. Of the transportables, I > recall working with a kaypro years ago that seemed decent, From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 21 21:12:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: OT: Monitor repair In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021022021347.7155.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've got a rebadged Sony GDM-20E20 and GDM-20D11 that have some issues... Me, too. I have a GDM-20E20 that's gotten all fuzzy (not convergence - it's achromatic). Love to know what I can tweak. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 21 21:19:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Teletype paper tape (was: uyk-20?) In-Reply-To: <20021021210550.61741.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021021210550.61741.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1996110165.20021021212056@subatomix.com> On Monday, October 21, 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > If you intend on using it to read in paper tapes, you'll want to make sure > it has the standard DEC "reader run" relay enhancment (extra circuit and > current loop to let the CPU step the reader one char at a time. How do the ASR33 and friends compare to the PC05 in terms of speed and reliability? -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 21 21:21:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16228055.20021021212254@subatomix.com> On Monday, October 21, 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > Living on a houseboat is great, but sometimes the space issue is a little > frusterating. Like there's no room for a PDP/11 here... If you tried, your boat might grow an indoor swimming pool... -- Jeffrey Sharp From lothar.felten at gmx.net Mon Oct 21 21:50:58 2002 From: lothar.felten at gmx.net (Lothar Felten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: VT52 repair References: Message-ID: <3DB44A01.8070203@gmx.net> >>VT52, but I only have the power cord. Inside there is something that >>looks like a connector, but I'm not sure if it really is one. > > There's a little daughterboard that plugs into one of the logic boards. > It contains the circuitry to convert between TTL levels and current loop > or (I guess) RS232. Do you have this board? This board is missing. But I think I know where the connector is. I do have a mini self made board, it might belong to the VT52 (maybe someone made a replacement?) It has 10 pins (would fit into the VT52, but the VT has 11...) a couple of diodes a SN75188 and a SN75189. The cable (six wires, RS 232?) is cut off. could this be the missing board ? It definitly came with the VT52, ant it doesn't belong > If you get no other replies, I know I have the VT52 printset. Be warned > it's not an easy device to debug unless you're used to it. It's basically > a special-purpose processor + firmware ROMs, and about 90% of the > circuitry has to be working to get a display. But there are clearly tests > you can do to eliminate the sillys (like 'is the master clock running' :-)) > > -tony thanks, but if Eric Smith scans them, I hope I can start. I'll see if I can repair it.... Thanks, lothar From lothar.felten at gmx.net Mon Oct 21 21:53:06 2002 From: lothar.felten at gmx.net (Lothar Felten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision References: Message-ID: <3DB45B92.9030805@gmx.net> > Just out of curiousity, how many other people here name their classic > computers (for reasons other than giving them a network address) > > -tony > Some OSes propose the name foo, but because I can't name all my machines foo, I added something to 'foo' that shows what machine it is. My first computer with network was netfoo, but it's gone, now i have: foorouter(obvious),fastfoo (AMD Duron), solarisfoo(SS10), ipxfoo(ipx), ipxfootwo, pentiumfoo, mipsfoo(DECstation), fastvaxfoo(VAXstation4k90), netvaxfoo(uVAX II, netbooted), pdpfoo(pdp11/93) and fooeleven(pdp11/83). --lothar From sieler at allegro.com Mon Oct 21 21:54:08 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 In-Reply-To: <006201c2789c$a2fcc120$e4a36e42@globetrotter.net> Message-ID: <3DB41092.7906.D9CA6C@localhost> Re: > I have an IBM 5100 for sell. I also have the printer 5103 and the external tape drive. ... > I include some pictures of it. The machine has APL, but doesn't currently work. I've seen photos of it, which are more interesting than the photos of his snowmobile :) I talked with him and made an offer, but...I was conservative due to the condition of the machine. Oh well. -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From ekklein at pacbell.net Mon Oct 21 21:54:36 2002 From: ekklein at pacbell.net (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: SCCS Interface vs. Interface age Message-ID: <03fc01c27966$3bf25ec0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I was just going through some of my old magazines (and filing some new acquisitions) in preparation for VCF5 and I noticed that I've got issues of SCCS Interface and Interface Age that overlap. I know that Interface Age broke from the Southern California Computer Society to publish "independently" but I had thought that they simply continued the volume/issue numbering from SCCS Interface. From the issues I've got that doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone know the story of this split? Were the two magazines published in parallel for long? Thanks, Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com (In need of an update!) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021021/1cdad370/attachment.html From vance at neurotica.com Mon Oct 21 21:55:04 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Les Solomon passed away this weekend In-Reply-To: <200210212333.g9LNXg221021@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Well, I don't know if Les Solomon and Lester del Rey were the same person, but Lester del Rey was a giant in the field of sci-fi, and a great friend of Isaac Asimov, Gerald Abromowitz, and the rest of the New York crowd from the 1950's onwards. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Well, "Del Rey" was the imprint that Ballantine Books sold Sci-Fi/Fantasy > under starting in 1977 (this included Star Wars, as I recall). It looks > like it now belongs to Random House. From their website (couldn't totally > remember the Ballantine name so had to look it up), "It was begun by > editor Judy-Lynn del Rey with editoria assistance of her husband, author and > editor Lester del Rey". Are they the same person? > > Zane > > > I noticed on the page he also wrote under the psuedonym of Lester Del Rey. > > For some reason that tweaks my old sci-fi memory, but can't identify it. > > As well as his impressive contribution to electronics did he also write sci-fi ? > > > > Lawrence > > > > > > > > I saw this in comp.os.cpm, but didn't see it here, so for those who don't > > > read that group, Les Solomon passed away this weekend at the age of 80. > > > > > > More details from Stan Veit on http://www.imsai.net/ ... > > > > > > I did not know Les, but he definitely led an interesting life, and I know he was > > > well-respected and cared about ... > > > > > > :-( > > > > > > Rich B. > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > > From geoff at pkworks.com Mon Oct 21 21:55:33 2002 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Les Solomon passed away this weekend Message-ID: <000d01c27970$8736aa80$1877f4d0@dialup> >I noticed on the page he also wrote under the psuedonym of Lester Del Rey. >For some reason that tweaks my old sci-fi memory, but can't identify it. >As well as his impressive contribution to electronics did he also write sci-fi ? Not the same fellow. The science fiction author and editor and SFFWA Grand Master Lester Del Rey died in 1993: http://www.rosettabooks.com/pages/author_35.html From ccraft at netgenius.org Mon Oct 21 21:56:05 2002 From: ccraft at netgenius.org (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 MUX cable? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021022015753.3F0C2617A8@mamacass.springsips.com> With my CXY08-M [M3119-YA] (in a VAX4000/500) I luckily recieved the cables that went with it. They are BC19N-12s ("centronics-style" 50-pin male to 4 DB-25 male). I could buzz them out for a pinout if you'd like, but these are apparently the wrong cables for yours as each has only 4 ports instead of 8. I suspect the difference (being lazy -- not looking up specs) is that the CXY08 has modem control. Sincerely, Chris Craft, RetroComputing Nut. On Monday 21 October 2002 16:30, Brian Chase wrote: > I've got an early MicroVAX 3100; one of the ones that just reads > "MicroVAX 3100" across the front. On the back of the system there are > three MMJ serial ports identified as 1-3, there's an DB-25M port which > I'd imagine is serial port 0 (the console), and beneath that is a > 36-pin Centronics style connector labelled 4-11 with the DEC serial > port pictograph beneath it. I'd gather this is for some sort of serial > port cable "octopus." > > Does anyone have a spare one of these cables or a part number for > this cable? Thanks. > > -brian. From ekklein at pacbell.net Mon Oct 21 21:56:34 2002 From: ekklein at pacbell.net (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: SCCS Interface vs. Interface age Message-ID: <040701c27971$a6c949b0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I was just going through some of my old magazines (and filing some new acquisitions) in preparation for VCF5 and I noticed that I've got issues of SCCS Interface and Interface Age that overlap. I know that Interface Age broke from the Southern California Computer Society to publish "independently" but I had thought that they simply continued the volume/issue numbering from SCCS Interface. From the issues I've got that doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone know the story of this split? Were the two magazines published in parallel for long? Thanks, Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com (In need of an update!) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021021/94a740ba/attachment.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 21 21:57:10 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Teletype paper tape (was: uyk-20?) In-Reply-To: <1996110165.20021021212056@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20021022023027.13279.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Monday, October 21, 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > If you intend on using it to read in paper tapes, you'll > > want to make sure it has the standard DEC "reader run" > > relay enhancment (extra circuit and current loop to let > > the CPU step the reader one char at a time. > > How do the ASR33 and friends compare to the PC05 in terms of speed and > reliability? Speed? Poorly. The ASR33 is 10cps, the PC05 is 300cps read/50cps punch. I have had no reliability issues with either, presuming the ASR33 is well adjusted. The trick is that there's better documentation out there (now) for cleaning/adjusting the ASR33, but I've found the PC05 reader to need nearly none (had to deoxidize the light bulb holder once). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From univac2 at earthlink.net Mon Oct 21 22:06:01 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Tandy XENIX Disks In-Reply-To: <1736687586.20021021110849@subatomix.com> Message-ID: on 10/21/02 11:08 AM, Jeffrey Sharp at jss@subatomix.com wrote: > On Sunday, October 20, 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: >> On a related note - If anyone has a TRS-80 Model 12/16/6000 keyboard >> suffering from keys that have a lack of bounce, removing the keycap and >> stretching the spring out a little works wonders. > > Did you ever figure out how to fix the common TRS-80 "have to press the key > hard for a keystroke to register" problem that we were having a few months > ago with my M4? Other than "press the key very hard"? I'm afraid I'll break > something! :-) In my experience, the problem will go away as you type on the keyboard. I had a similar problem with a Commodore PET, and I find that the more I type, the less noticeable the problem becomes. I've never much trouble with TRS-80 keyboards though. -- Owen Robertson From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 21 22:17:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Teletype paper tape (was: uyk-20?) In-Reply-To: <20021022023027.13279.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021022023027.13279.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1649590560.20021021221856@subatomix.com> On Monday, October 21, 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > How do the ASR33 and friends compare to the PC05 in terms of speed and > > reliability? > > Speed? Poorly. The ASR33 is 10cps, the PC05 is 300cps read/50cps punch. Ah, I thought it was relatively slow. Well, I don't need a DEC-compatible TTY then. I have a PC05. -- Jeffrey Sharp From blstuart at bellsouth.net Mon Oct 21 22:20:01 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:12:32 -0400 . <003b01c2795f$b8042a90$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: Well, I've seen enough and can't hold back... Back at Purdue, the machines in the main machine room were all named after Arthurian legend. Of course, the VAX8800 was Arthur. The Suns we had in the OS lab were named after trees. IIRC the ones running SunOS were named after hardwoods and the ones running XINU were named after softwoods. When I started teaching at Rhodes, I named our new network machines after intelligent computers from SciFi. They included: hal, sal, colossus, guaridan, zen, harlie, p1, mcp, joshua (ok, I forgot I really should have called it wopr), m5 and skynet I now have most of those machines here at home. The laptop I'm using now is nomad and my gateway machine is orac. Of course, my daughter insisted that I name her machine fluffy after the three-headed dog in Harry Potter. My wife's machine is called Taliesin (another Arthurian reference). Brian L. Stuart From fernande at internet1.net Mon Oct 21 23:13:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision References: <34DC8408-E3CB-11D6-9667-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> <1035001972.20393.10.camel@supermicro> <007701c27911$084771a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <004d01c27958$1d891040$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <3DB4CF81.2090700@internet1.net> Michael Nadeau wrote: > In the early 1990s, I got a tour of one of the networking labs at Bell Labs. > I noticed that all the servers were labeled with names--all characters from > The Little Mermaid. > > --Mike Western Michigan University had a Vax cluster that used the names from the Winnie the Pooh stories :-) I wish I had been able to get one of them, but they are long gone from what I hear. They run Alphas now. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 21 23:41:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: DEC wiring colors and the PDP-8/e PSU Message-ID: <20021022044322.76888.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> I think I have repaired the circuit breaker in my PDP-8/e, but in my efforts to reassemble the dismantled breaker, I am concerned that I might have swapped the hot and return wires (black and white) from the mains plug. For internal AC wiring, I have seen in this power supply and others (of the -8/i and -8/L vintage, among others) white and red wires. Is it white-to-white, black-to-red? The problem with my breaker turned out to be curable by tightening up the pivot points of the double-jointed contact-throw mechanism. The design, it seems, depends on the back-pressure of the movable contact into the fixed. One breaker stayed extended, while the other collapsed before the throw was complete. As there is a linkage that trips both at once, that's all it took. I think there was excessive side-play that meant the weaker breaker couldn't stand the pressure at the main joint and it popped. Before disassembling it, the symptom had been that I could reset the breaker dozens of times in a row and never have it stick. Now, it seems quite mechanically reliable. Haven't applied power yet, for obvious reasons. Thanks for any tips. If anyone happens to have their PSU dismantled enough to see the back, I need to know which half of the breaker, white-lead or black-lead, attaches to the lone white wire, and which one attaches to the red wire (with a companion wire). Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From spedraja at ono.com Tue Oct 22 00:13:00 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Les Solomon passed away this weekend References: Message-ID: <01cd01c2798a$10cb4580$13912a3e@sergio> You speak about different persons. Del Rey appears treated many times in the prologs of Asimov in its short stories collections. Oh, and Judy Lynn. The admiration of the good Doctor for her is more than evident. Approaching... If some of you are interested in Science Fiction, I'm a reader from 10 years old. I'm ever happy to take contact with other fans to this genre in all the world. In Spain the fandom is growing lightly but we are actually a modest great pack of green dogs. Fans of old 30' to 60' old movies of Horror and Sci-Fi, and non-fanatic Trekkies and Fivers are welcome too. Off list, ofcourse :-) Greetings Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Zane H. Healy Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 3:49 AM Subject: Re: Les Solomon passed away this weekend > > Well, I don't know if Les Solomon and Lester del Rey were the same person, > but Lester del Rey was a giant in the field of sci-fi, and a great friend > of Isaac Asimov, Gerald Abromowitz, and the rest of the New York crowd > from the 1950's onwards. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > Well, "Del Rey" was the imprint that Ballantine Books sold Sci-Fi/Fantasy > > under starting in 1977 (this included Star Wars, as I recall). It looks > > like it now belongs to Random House. From their website (couldn't totally > > remember the Ballantine name so had to look it up), "It was begun by > > editor Judy-Lynn del Rey with editoria assistance of her husband, author and > > editor Lester del Rey". Are they the same person? > > > > Zane > > > > > I noticed on the page he also wrote under the psuedonym of Lester Del Rey. > > > For some reason that tweaks my old sci-fi memory, but can't identify it. > > > As well as his impressive contribution to electronics did he also write sci-fi ? > > > > > > Lawrence > > > > > > > > > > > I saw this in comp.os.cpm, but didn't see it here, so for those who don't > > > > read that group, Les Solomon passed away this weekend at the age of 80. > > > > > > > > More details from Stan Veit on http://www.imsai.net/ ... > > > > > > > > I did not know Les, but he definitely led an interesting life, and I know he was > > > > well-respected and cared about ... > > > > > > > > :-( > > > > > > > > Rich B. > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > > > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > > > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > > > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Oct 22 01:09:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: OT: Monitor repair In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I've got a rebadged Sony GDM-20E20 and GDM-20D11 that have some issues and Just FYI I have yet to get a repair estimate on any of the problem Sun monitors I run across of that model type that don't more than double the replacement cost of a working used unit. People I know that deal in a lot of this model used don't seem to bother to repair them either, and they are pretty darn cheap, and not without resources. OTOH I sure do like my 20E20, and haven't had a bit of trouble with it. From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Oct 22 02:00:00 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: The naming of Servers (was Re: A Momentous Decision) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1BA362EC-E58C-11D6-8BB7-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Saturday, October 19, 2002, at 11:32 PM, linc fessenden wrote: > > tic > > -- > -Linc Fessenden > > In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... > > > > Thanks Linc, isn't it "tick" though?, for the small bug which bites From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Oct 22 02:06:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <004d01c27958$1d891040$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> from Michael Nadeau at "Oct 21, 2 07:18:07 pm" Message-ID: <200210220717.AAA08238@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > In the early 1990s, I got a tour of one of the networking labs at Bell Labs. > I noticed that all the servers were labeled with names--all characters from > The Little Mermaid. I name all my servers after Scandinavian cities. Right now, I have stockholm (ANS 500/200), thule (Mac IIci running NetBSD) and reykjavik (Solbourne S4100/36), with oslo in the wings (POWERServer; exact model to be determined when I take possession). The unfortunate consequence of this is that people think I live in Sweden, and tell me they won't ship stuff to Europe (stockholm.ptloma.edu), ignoring the .ptloma, and the .edu. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm rethreading my toothbrush bristles." - From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 22 02:23:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: The naming of Servers (was Re: A Momentous Decision) In-Reply-To: <1BA362EC-E58C-11D6-8BB7-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <1BA362EC-E58C-11D6-8BB7-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <32901.64.169.63.74.1035271514.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Thanks Linc, isn't it "tick" though?, for the small bug which bites "And isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway? I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh oooh, the sky's the limit!" -- The Tick From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Oct 22 02:58:01 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Troll on imsai.net? Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFB74@lif015.merlincommunications.com> > Second, I think that the 8" disk would be marked "SSDD", not "Single > Sided Double Density", but I really haven't seen enough 8" disks to > firmly decide that. Oops #1. Got a stack of BASF 8" disks here. The label says .. BASF Single Sided Double Density Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Oct 22 03:00:00 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: OT: Monitor repair Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFB75@lif015.merlincommunications.com> > Me, too. I have a GDM-20E20 that's gotten all fuzzy (not > convergence - it's achromatic). Love to know what I can > tweak. Focus. It should be on the line output transformer. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Oct 22 07:33:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: HP 2647A / F Terminal & HP1000 References: Message-ID: <3DB54688.6070703@tiac.net> That cables should be fairly easy to find. I don't have an extra on-hand, as I've modified mine by replacing the HP264z terminal connector (a sort of edge-card connector) with a DB-9 so it can plug into a PC serial port or an actual terminal (I'm using DEC VT320's on my HP's, there ought to be a law, but there ain't!). I do have schematics for the cable, so its not too hard to build one from parts if needed. Glen Slick wrote: > I do have a 12966A BACI interface in my 2117F, but unfortunately no > interface cable for it (or for any of the other interface cards in the > system). Anyone have a spare cable for some sort of reasonable deal? > > -Glen > > >> From: Bob Shannon >> Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Re: HP 2647A / F Terminal >> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:22:21 -0400 >> >> The HP1000 264x boot rom uses a common BACI board. I have the source >> code listing for that >> boot rom. >> >> The protocol is very simple, the HP sends " e" I beleive, and >> then listens to a stream of bytes to be sent in the HP standard BBL >> format. This is the same format used for HP paper tapes, so all the >> software on the HP2100 archive site can be loaded this way. There is >> no additional handshaking for each byte as it is read. >> >> (its also the format used to distribute HP-IPL/OS) >> >> This is a quick and easy way to get your 2117F booting. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp > > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Oct 22 08:17:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? Message-ID: I remember hearing the Osborne likened to a VW, the Kaypro to a Chevy, and the Otrona to a BMW. I had an Osborne and Otrona, while a friend had a Kaypro. Between the Osborne and Kaypro, I'd probably go with the Kaypro now -- larger screen, slightly better graphics (IIRC), but it has a strange disk format that makes copying to other formats more difficult. The Otrona's still the coolest of the three, and if you can get an 8:16, you can easily use it to copy disks to/from IBM PC 360KB format. Desktop CP/M machines (as opposed to luggables) are a different subject, of which I have little knowledge. Always heard good things about Epsons, except that they often went down strange proprietary paths and never got much market share. Bob -----Original Message----- From: J.C. Wren [mailto:jcwren@jcwren.com] Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 8:44 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: cp/m favorite? And the ever popular Otrona, which I personally consider a little nicer than the Kaypros. However, for sheer cool, nothing beat the IMSAI. One day, I will have space to light mine up again. Living on a houseboat is great, but sometimes the space issue is a little frusterating. Like there's no room for a PDP/11 here... --John gil smith wrote: > Hi folks: > > I am curious what your favorite cp/m system might be. I am getting an itch > for some late-70/early-80/pre-msdos kind of box. Of the transportables, I > recall working with a kaypro years ago that seemed decent, From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Oct 22 09:08:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > hal, sal, colossus, guaridan, zen, harlie, p1, mcp, > joshua (ok, I forgot I really should have called it wopr), > m5 and skynet > speaking of which, was there ever a follow on to The Adolecense(sp) of P1? That was a *great* book. g. From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Oct 22 09:11:39 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <004d01c27958$1d891040$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: On 10/21/02, Michael Nadeau scribbled: > In the early 1990s, I got a tour of one of the networking labs at Bell Labs. > I noticed that all the servers were labeled with names--all characters from > The Little Mermaid. > > --Mike When I was a VMS computer operator at Subway World Headquarters, all of the Vaxes were named after the different sandwiches and toppings we sold... Combo, Tomato, Meatball (Unix, for web stuff), Salami (the voicemail VAX), Olive... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Oct 22 09:17:00 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? Message-ID: >I am curious what your favorite cp/m system might be. I am getting an itch >for some late-70/early-80/pre-msdos kind of box. Well, - For portability, I like the Osborne 1. I had a Kaypro 4 '84, and I admit the larger screen was nice, but for 'cool factor', I just like the Osborne. - For a desktop/all-in-one, the Televideo TS-803 is my pick. The graphics capabilities are quite nice, and the screen is large for an all-in-one. Also a nice large clicky keyboard. Wish I had the 803-H, though (built-in hard drive) :-(. I do also have a Xerox 820-II (a fine machine), but I like the style of the Televideo case better (not as industrial looking), and the Xerox drives are external, so they just don't look as nice :-) - For taking up rack/desk space, I have a CompuPro S-100 system -- Dual CPU (Z80H and 80286), a separate box containing dual 8" floppies (Qumetrak 842 SS/DS, SD/DD), and a separate box containing dual 5.25" 96tpi floppies and a 40 MB Hard Drive. All of this drives a pristine Heath H-19 terminal with a sweet graphics board. This is definitely my favorite overall system... - For a system that runs CP/M that wasn't designed to run CP/M :-), I like my Platinum Apple IIe w/ Microsoft SoftCard. I had a C-64 w/ the CP/M cartridge, and I also had a C-128 (which really was designed to run CP/M), but the IIe appeals to me. Especially the Microsoft CP/M card :-) (from back when they made good products :-)) Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From dtwright at uiuc.edu Tue Oct 22 09:29:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: <003b01c2795f$b8042a90$7800a8c0@george> References: <003b01c2795f$b8042a90$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20021022143045.GD5689397@uiuc.edu> Well, I have 2 (3?) sort-of naming schemes going on: - some machines (Suns mostly, and my firewall) are named after sorts of monkeys -- baboon, rhesus, etc. They all thing they're on the domain .monkey-cage.uiuc.edu, to make some Sun software stuff work right. - I have one HP C200 named "tetsuo", and I'm going to be getting a 2 processor J210XC with 1GB+ RAM that will be named "akira". - other computers are just named after what they are - the mac is "mac-g3", my laptop is "decnote", etc... so whether or not they get named creatively depends on a) how cool the machine is, and b) if I feel like thinking about it at the time ;) Robert F. Schaefer said: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Chase" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 2:19 PM > Subject: Re: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] > > Ok, ok, ok, I give! > > The VAXcluster consists of (or will consist of when I get a round tuit): > > BILBO - VAX 6000-320 > FRODO - VAXstation 4000-90 > MERRY - VAXstation 3100-40 > PIPPIN - VAX 4000-200 > a few currently-unnamed alpha boxen that will boot into OpenVMS occasionally > SAM - '386/40 64MB(!) to watch the guts of a working LAVc > > The networking equipment: > a-ko - HP hub > b-ko - Xyplex termserver > c-ko - Rylan 10bFL concentrator > hehehe! The HP and the Xyplex both hang off the Raylan, and the Xyplex gave > me fits getting it to boot-- it's pure evil. Get it? > > The peaseas are mostly unnamed, but a few notable exceptions: > > ai-chan - my peasea > len-chan - my wifes' peasea (she doesn't know...) > > Most of the others are waiting for the right Name to occure to me, they > mostly get utilitarian names until then > > > > > -brian. > > Bob - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Oct 22 10:14:01 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: The naming of Servers (was Re: A Momentous Decision) In-Reply-To: <32901.64.169.63.74.1035271514.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1EE52934-E5D1-11D6-B289-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 12:25 AM, Eric Smith wrote: >> Thanks Linc, isn't it "tick" though?, for the small bug which bites > > "And isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway? I mean, all you > get > is one trick, rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy, oooh, > oooh oooh, the sky's the limit!" > -- The Tick Fortune cookie material!!! "Good Lord! Tick! You've been hit in the head by a ... by a meteor!" "I can understand your amazement, Author. But belive me, the novelty wears off after the first few times." From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 22 10:31:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) References: <003b01c2795f$b8042a90$7800a8c0@george> <20021022143045.GD5689397@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <00f201c279e0$3f44bda0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I personally don't name machines by "what they are", for very good reason. Plus, no one but the admin group uses the "real" machine names, also for very good reason. Here's some illustrative examples... If you call an HP K370 "k370.somedomain.com", and then upgrade it to a K570 by just adding a few more cpu cards, do you really want to still call it K370.somedomain.com? If not, you have to retrain your user community and this is a pain, and kinda defeats the whole idea of using meaningful names so people don't need to know IP addresses. As a result, machine names generally indicate what they are used for... so a machine that processes orders might be "orders.somedomain.com". However, this can cause issues unless the second point below is heeded... If you give machines names that indicate "what they do" rather than "what they are", you can then run into problems if you do clustering, or if a machine goes down for a while (hardware issues), or more commonly, if for load reasons you need to move an application to a different machine. Thus - (IMHO), machines should have a "real" name that has nothing to do with what it is or what it does. These real hostnames are typically what admin people will use. Then, define CNAME's for the applications that the machine serves up...this is what "users" use. Here's a realworld example. A particular webserver is named "joe" (at this place, the naming scheme is baseball related, so machines get names like hank, cy, willie, mark, sandy, ozzie, etc.). It serves up images via the web for bulk email that is sent out to subscribers that has links in it back to images on "joe". However, users inside the company who put up these images via sftp go to the cname for the machine which is "image". The benefit of this is, if joe ever gets too heavily loaded, or goes down or whatever, I can easily change the "image" cname to point to a different webserver here and move the content to it (in the case of a web server cluster, the content is already there). Thus, the admin group knows "joe" is down, it doesn't respond at "joe". But the emails sent out reference http://image.somedomain.com, and that is what the users inside the company sftp to, so to them, everything still works as it did before while some other machine is doing that task. The big benefit is admins know the machines by their real name, as their job focus is machine-centric. However, we can shuffle applications and services around to other machines whilly-nilly, and we don't have to tell the users anything because they still use the other name that is "service" specific. After all, admins should be spending their time watching system resources generally. If one machine starts getting sluggish, they need to be able to move one or a few of the services that machine provides to a less loaded machine - and they should be able to do this virtually instantaneously, without the users having to do anything different or know a different machine name. Heck, most users have the "machine name" stored in their terminal emulation software, and dont even know what it's called". And half of them don't know how to change it themselves. This becomes especially important (and required) when you do clustering. The most common example is web farms, but it applies equally to any service. If you have 30 machines that ALL serve up content for the single URL http://www.bigcorp.com you certainly can't name them all the same name. And if one of the machines in the cluster dies, you also can't have a 1/30th "hole" in your services. The above paradigm addresses this nicely. To take it one step further, we use "wackamole" - a free unix program that assures certain IP addresses are always available. It will shuffle the group of addresses amongst multiple machines on the fly. If a machine goes down, it moves it's ip addresses equally among the remaining machines in the cluster. Most people accomplish "clustering" with round robin DNS, which is great, but you run into the problem of if one machine in the round robin list dies, anyone who gets the address of the down machine resolved gets nothing. wackamole solves this problem very nicely. And as you might guess, doing things like this doesn't work well if you are using machine names unique to each machine. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From chris at blackwidowguitars.com Tue Oct 22 10:53:01 2002 From: chris at blackwidowguitars.com (Chris Lamrock) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) References: <003b01c2795f$b8042a90$7800a8c0@george> <20021022143045.GD5689397@uiuc.edu> <00f201c279e0$3f44bda0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <016101c279e4$a5339240$640aa8c0@chrislamrock> I named all of our computers after characters on the Simpson's cartoon. It seems we had one person to pretty much fit every role - from Homer, to the Comic Book Guy, to Edna the sexy teacher. Of course most users don't really know what or why their machine names are - but it's very easy for me to keep track. Now when a person leaves - I have changed the machine name to "fit" that person a bit better. It makes it fun for me - or is it that I have too much time on my hands? hmmm Maybe. Now our servers are named after institutions on the show - springfield_nuclear, moes_tavern ect.... so allot of times I'll see Homer @ moes_tavern... See it works out!?! computers = fun ............ right? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 11:32 AM Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) > I personally don't name machines by "what they are", for very good reason. > Plus, no one but the admin group uses the "real" machine names, also for > very good reason. Here's some illustrative examples... > > If you call an HP K370 "k370.somedomain.com", and then upgrade it to a K570 > by just adding a few more cpu cards, do you really want to still call it > K370.somedomain.com? If not, you have to retrain your user community and > this is a pain, and kinda defeats the whole idea of using meaningful names > so people don't need to know IP addresses. As a result, machine names > generally indicate what they are used for... so a machine that processes > orders might be "orders.somedomain.com". However, this can cause issues > unless the second point below is heeded... > > If you give machines names that indicate "what they do" rather than "what > they are", you can then run into problems if you do clustering, or if a > machine goes down for a while (hardware issues), or more commonly, if for > load reasons you need to move an application to a different machine. Thus - > (IMHO), machines should have a "real" name that has nothing to do with what > it is or what it does. These real hostnames are typically what admin people > will use. Then, define CNAME's for the applications that the machine serves > up...this is what "users" use. > > Here's a realworld example. A particular webserver is named "joe" (at this > place, the naming scheme is baseball related, so machines get names like > hank, cy, willie, mark, sandy, ozzie, etc.). It serves up images via the web > for bulk email that is sent out to subscribers that has links in it back to > images on "joe". However, users inside the company who put up these images > via sftp go to the cname for the machine which is "image". The benefit of > this is, if joe ever gets too heavily loaded, or goes down or whatever, I > can easily change the "image" cname to point to a different webserver here > and move the content to it (in the case of a web server cluster, the content > is already there). Thus, the admin group knows "joe" is down, it doesn't > respond at "joe". But the emails sent out reference > http://image.somedomain.com, and that is what the users inside the company > sftp to, so to them, everything still works as it did before while some > other machine is doing that task. > > The big benefit is admins know the machines by their real name, as their job > focus is machine-centric. However, we can shuffle applications and services > around to other machines whilly-nilly, and we don't have to tell the users > anything because they still use the other name that is "service" specific. > After all, admins should be spending their time watching system resources > generally. If one machine starts getting sluggish, they need to be able to > move one or a few of the services that machine provides to a less loaded > machine - and they should be able to do this virtually instantaneously, > without the users having to do anything different or know a different > machine name. Heck, most users have the "machine name" stored in their > terminal emulation software, and dont even know what it's called". And half > of them don't know how to change it themselves. > > This becomes especially important (and required) when you do clustering. The > most common example is web farms, but it applies equally to any service. If > you have 30 machines that ALL serve up content for the single URL > http://www.bigcorp.com you certainly can't name them all the same name. And > if one of the machines in the cluster dies, you also can't have a 1/30th > "hole" in your services. The above paradigm addresses this nicely. > > To take it one step further, we use "wackamole" - a free unix program that > assures certain IP addresses are always available. It will shuffle the group > of addresses amongst multiple machines on the fly. If a machine goes down, > it moves it's ip addresses equally among the remaining machines in the > cluster. Most people accomplish "clustering" with round robin DNS, which is > great, but you run into the problem of if one machine in the round robin > list dies, anyone who gets the address of the down machine resolved gets > nothing. wackamole solves this problem very nicely. And as you might guess, > doing things like this doesn't work well if you are using machine names > unique to each machine. > > Jay West > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Oct 22 11:53:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Naming Computers Message-ID: <200210221654.g9MGrcg25367@io.crash.com> Well, I grabbed the domain crash.com in the Great Internet Domain Name Land Grab of the early 90's. So when I'm naming machines, I have an overpowering urge to use Unix signal names. The firewall was Segv [.11], is now Hup [.1]; desktops have been Buserr [.10] and Abort [.6]; web server is Fpe [.8]; main file- server had to be Io [.23]. The higher numbered signals tend to vary from one Unix flavor to another, unfortunately... This only applies to working machines; collection machines are liable to get boring names like different deities, different pantheon per manufacturer. I know, I know, how predictable... In a previous life as IT guy for a smallish ISV desktop machines were named with input from the user, if they seemed likely to have a good idea or insisted. Lab machines would typically be named by vendor and sequence, as they were rotated/replaced on something like a 12-18 month cycle. The two fileservers I put together (to get them to stop cross-mounting everything!) got named Inode and Vnode... External FTP server got named Beyond, as I recall. When we brought in a big team of developers and ordered their machines on short notice, I went with another common theme: T lines and stops (that's "subway" to those not in Boston ;^) Servers became Redline, Greenline, etc. Machines became stops on these lines (Alewife, Copley, Kenmore, Lechmere, etc). The original plan had been stops for servers and nearby streets for nodes, but we were rushed... The name I'm still most fond of is the first machine I was allowed to name. I started working in the VAX Resource Center at MIT back in '89 and was handed a VAXstation II, some TK50's and books, and told to learn VMS from a system managers point of view (I'd been a user for a couple years). Since I was and am a big fan of Buckaroo Banzai I called it Yoyodyne.mit.edu (and YOYO::), and after I finished my VMS lessons it got reloaded with Ultrix 3.x/UWS 2.x. I got a lot of complements on the name; several people tried to tell me something about this Thomas Pynchon guy, but I was more interested in reading things by Henry Spencer or Rob Pike... ;^) Ob. Tick quote: DO NOT: 1. Eat in Lab 2. Set Lab on Fire 3. Innovate Unnecessarily -- Sign in Dinosaur Neil's Tent "The Tick vs. Dinosaur Neil" --Steve. Steve Jones ...!uunet!crash.com!smj Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing (any spambots parse bang paths?) +1 781 MID BYTE "Chaos will ensue if the variable i is altered..." - SysV Programmers Guide From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 22 12:34:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1875.4.20.168.211.1035308137.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > speaking of which, was there ever a follow on to The Adolecense(sp) of > P1? That was a *great* book. Oolcay itay. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Oct 22 13:01:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <00f201c279e0$3f44bda0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <003b01c2795f$b8042a90$7800a8c0@george> <20021022143045.GD5689397@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: >I personally don't name machines by "what they are", for very good reason. >Plus, no one but the admin group uses the "real" machine names, also for >very good reason. Here's some illustrative examples... > >If you call an HP K370 "k370.somedomain.com", and then upgrade it to a K570 >by just adding a few more cpu cards, do you really want to still call it >K370.somedomain.com? If not, you have to retrain your user community and >this is a pain, and kinda defeats the whole idea of using meaningful names >so people don't need to know IP addresses. As a result, machine names >generally indicate what they are used for... so a machine that processes >orders might be "orders.somedomain.com". However, this can cause issues >unless the second point below is heeded... > >If you give machines names that indicate "what they do" rather than "what >they are", you can then run into problems if you do clustering, or if a >machine goes down for a while (hardware issues), or more commonly, if for >load reasons you need to move an application to a different machine. Thus - >(IMHO), machines should have a "real" name that has nothing to do with what >it is or what it does. These real hostnames are typically what admin people >will use. Then, define CNAME's for the applications that the machine serves >up...this is what "users" use. Some good points, and they definitly apply to my VMS systems. I name my VMS systems after Doc Savage characters. Originally they were all clustered together, but due to electricity costs, and the problems I have with cooling, I'm down to only running one full time. That system is called 'MONK'. Monk started out as a lowely (even for me at the time), DEC 3000/300LX with a BA350 attached (acting as a simple fileserver). Later, once I got a couple DE500's (100Mbit ethernet controllers) I moved the BA350 (which contained the system disk and other drives) to a AlphaStation 200 4/233 obviously no reason to change the name from Monk, I just had to change the ethernet interface. Still later, I got married and moved, but my DSL line stayed behind for a month. By this time I was really dependant on Monk for several things (email, file, and printserver), so I dupped the drives in the BA350's (two by then), and the AlphaStation 200 4/233 and my firewall stayed behind while Monk developed a 'split' personality as I brought up a 2nd Monk, this time an AlphaStation 500/333. A month later I had the DSL line transferred, and was back to just one Monk. Still later, moved the disks again, this time to the PWS 433au, that is Monk's current incarnation (though with only one BA350 as I've now got larger disks, and the system disk is internal so I can benifit from the Internal UW-SCSI). The last upgrade was the least transparent as it involved upgrading to OpenVMS 7.2-1H1, and merging several disks, however, the next time I do such an upgrade it will be transparent as it's now setup correctly. Still, every upgrade was managed such that it was basically transparent to the users (even the last, as while it took a couple days, I still had a live Monk up and running while doing the migration). Monk has really come a long way from being a simple fileserver on what was to me pretty lowely hardware. He's my Mailserver and Printserver, as well as still acting as a fileserver (Appletalk, Samba, and NFS), and a private web server. Both my wife and I log into him (either via Telnet or via LAT and a terminal server) and do stuff (she just does email, but I do all sorts of stuff), and I occasionally bring up a DECwindows session over the net on either my Mac or XP system. When I get the time, the next enhancement will be to have him also act as a DNS server,and I've considered having him act as a USENET news server as well. Eventually I'll most likely upgrade him to a DS10 or better, and eventually, to an Itanium system (but this will be well after the OpenVMS port is done). In all honesty the upgrade I'm most interested in is replacing the BA350 with a pair of BA356's. Does all this have a point, not really, but it does provide a detailed example of how a system can change over the course of a few years, and yet, to any users, that change is basically transparrent (except for the increase in speed and resources). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Oct 22 13:27:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: CP/M for DEC VT-180? Message-ID: <200210221827.g9MIRjg25578@io.crash.com> I recently gained a Pro-350 and a "Robin" VT-180. I know where I can get various bits of OS for the Pro, but nothing for the Robin. I've checked the two CP/M archive sites I knew about and done a little Googling -- I didn't find anything, though I did see a pointer to Don Maslin and get the impression he may be able to provide disks for some sort of fee. Anybody have a pointer to something on the 'Net? There's nothing like instant gratification, y'know... ;^) Thanks! -- Ob. Tick quote: The morning sun rises to greet him, and in its low warm light he stands like some sort of... of Pagan God or... deposed tyrant, staring out over the city he's sworn to ... to stare out over. And its evident just by looking at him that he's got some pret-ty heavy things on his mind. -- The Tick, "The Tick vs. Dinosaur Neil" --Steve. Steve Jones ...!uunet!crash.com!smj Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing (any spambots parse bang paths?) +1 781 MID BYTE "Chaos will ensue if the variable i is altered..." - SysV Programmers Guide From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Tue Oct 22 14:41:00 2002 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: uyk-20? (Count me in!) Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16D5A@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> I _definitely_ want in on a UYK-20 if any become available! Please let me know! -al- > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey Sharp [mailto:jss@subatomix.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 10:34 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: uyk-20? > > > On Friday, October 18, 2002, Joe wrote: > > Excellant suggestion! My father is also interested in > disposing of his > > Teletype systems and they're looking for some of those too > so I might be > > able to load them up. > > Oh boy, you're gonna get a few responses here saying *that*! I need a > Teletype for my PDP-11/20. And, since I just found out I was > getting hired, > I might actually have money in a month or two. > > How many TTYs do you have, and where are they? > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Oct 22 15:12:01 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: <1875.4.20.168.211.1035308137.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > > speaking of which, was there ever a follow on to The Adolecense(sp) of > > P1? That was a *great* book. > > Oolcay itay. > Famous last words. :) g. From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Oct 22 15:49:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <016101c279e4$a5339240$640aa8c0@chrislamrock> References: <003b01c2795f$b8042a90$7800a8c0@george> <20021022143045.GD5689397@uiuc.edu> <00f201c279e0$3f44bda0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021022164251.028138d0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Chris Lamrock may have mentioned these words: [snippety-doo-dah...] >Now our servers are named after institutions on the show - >springfield_nuclear, moes_tavern ect.... so allot of times I'll see Homer >@ moes_tavern... See it works out!?! Ah welllll... I suppose if this thread will never die, I might'swell jump in... ;-) For the computers around my place that need names for a network or something, I really don't get too inventive... the wife's machine is "maggie" (her name), mine's "zmerch" (the userid I've had for almost 20 years), the tivo is "tivo", the laptop is "zdell" (another one already had "dell" so I had to make it unique...), etc.... However, when I built my first dual-processor machine [1], and someone would know what how fast it could do something, I'd refer to it as "Goon." >> "Well, I suppose I could spark up Goon when I get home & find out..." After it fried and I built a 1Ghz P3, I had gotten out of that habit. When that machine wasn't fast enough to transcode MPEGs (for SVCDs) and I built a dual-processor Athlon box, I started doing it again on rare occasions, but it's not like it once was... Otherwise, the *only* other things I've named that one would not normally associate with naming (like kids & pets... ;-) is my Oscilloscope (Tex - because it's a Tektronix, mainly just to shorten the name), and a hat (a Russian enlisted Army winter cap I picked up in ex-East Berlin) only because "Vlad" or "Vladimir" was shorter than "a Russian enlisted Army winter cap I picked up in ex-East Berlin" and occasionally confused the listener... Usually the stupid ones... ;-) And now back to our irregularly scheduled drivel... ;^> Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] a Dual P2-350, when 550 was the biggest, baddest CPU on the planet, dual 9G 10Krpm SCSI drives software raided... Faster than most people's servers, it really *was* a goon at the time... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Oct 22 17:07:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:12 2005 Subject: good book on Pascal Message-ID: <200210222208.PAA29386@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I'm looking for a good reference book on Pascal. I'm looking for something in the 1982 to 1985 time range. The Pascal, I have, is said to be MS-Pascal. I didn't know that they did a Pascal but it may have been someone elses that they OEM'd. I don't think it is Turbo Pascal so don't suggest your favorite TP book. Of course, it isn't on a x86 machine so there may be differences. I am mostly interested in the kind of things one would normally find in the object library that one would use with this compiler. They mention that it is a shared library with MS-FORTRAN. Information on FORTRAN libraries might also be useful. Thanks Dwight From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Oct 22 17:30:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: free kit in UK. PDP 11/84 Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021022153338.02852910@mail.zipcon.net> Free PDP 11/84 for rescue in the UK. Please contact David directly if you're in the UK and can rescue this machine.. Also, can someone who is on classiccmp forward this to that list as well? thanks. Bill ----- Forwarded message from David Warden ----- Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:59:44 +0100 From: David Warden To: mrbill@mrbill.net Subject: Re: PDP 11/84 Cc: david@aulis.demon.co.uk Bill, Thanks for your prompt reply. Please do forward my details to your contacts in the UK. I look forward to hearing from them. Its great to get such a positive response. I have been trying on and off for about a year to find a new home for this machine as I really do need the space. I've always thought it was too good for scrap which was why I saved it in the first place. Its in two DEC cabinets each 40in high x 20in wide x 30in deep. Once I've dug it out from under three years accumulated clutter I can send further details and/or pictures to anyone who is interested. It spent most of its life in a climate-controlled equipment room at the hospital and I've kept it in the house since so it is in quite clean condition. Once again, thanks for your help. Best Regards, David. --- David, With your permission, I'll forward this to a group of people who collect and rescue such machines from the skip and give them a good home. I'd take it myself, if I wasnt thousands of miles away. 8-) Let me know, and I'll forward this and have people contact you directly. Bill On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 10:50:45PM +0100, David Warden wrote: > Dear Sir, > I am trying to find a good home for a DEC PDP 11/84 mini computer (circa 1986 > vintage) which I salvaged in 1997 and whose space I now need. > The working (when last powered up in 1999) system comprises the following > main components: > 11X84-BB > TU80-CB > RA81-AD > and boots DSM 11 version 4.1. > It was in use until 1997 running a laborartory system at a district > general hospital. Since then it has been stored in the study at my house in > Gloucestershire, England. > I am keen that this system should go to someone who will appreciate it > and not just strip it for spares or try to sell it. If you have any > bona fide contacts in the South West of England who might be interested then > I would be grateful if you could forward my e-mail details on to them. > I do not want to advertise on the web or in the news groups since I don't > want to get spam for everafter and want to be sure that anyone I deal with is > genuine. > Thanks in anticipation of your help. > Yours faithfully, > David Warden From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 22 17:33:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: good book on Pascal In-Reply-To: <200210222208.PAA29386@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > I'm looking for a good reference book on Pascal. > I'm looking for something in the 1982 to 1985 time range. While NOT a reference, a "fun" book from that time period (1982) was Elementary Pascal, by Henry Ledgard and Andrew Singer > The Pascal, I have, is said to be MS-Pascal. I didn't know that > they did a Pascal but it may have been someone elses > that they OEM'd. Microsoft Pascal for the PC was written at Microsoft by Bob Wallace (who died last month). Later, they wrote their FORTRAN, and some other of their languages in it. Bob told me that to get acceptable performance, to NEVER use their runtime library. All of that was well before they had a C compiler (the first one of which that they had, they licensed from Lattice) > Of course, it isn't on a x86 machine so there may be > differences. ? what version are you talking about? > I am mostly interested in the kind of things > one would normally find in the object library that one > would use with this compiler. They mention that it is > a shared library with MS-FORTRAN. Information on FORTRAN > libraries might also be useful. > Thanks > Dwight The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted BASIC. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Oct 22 17:34:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Fwd: [geeks] [david@aulis.demon.co.uk: Re: PDP 11/84] Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021022153720.03a08b60@mail.zipcon.net> >Free PDP 11/84 for rescue in the UK. > >Please contact David directly if you're in the UK and can rescue this >machine.. Also, can someone who is on classiccmp forward this to that >list as well? > >thanks. > >Bill > >----- Forwarded message from David Warden ----- > >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:59:44 +0100 >From: David Warden >To: mrbill@mrbill.net >Subject: Re: PDP 11/84 >Cc: david@aulis.demon.co.uk > >Bill, > >Thanks for your prompt reply. > >Please do forward my details to your contacts in the UK. I look forward to >hearing from them. > >Its great to get such a positive response. I have been trying on and off for >about a year to find a new home for this machine as I really do need the >space. I've always thought it was too good for scrap which was why I >saved it in the first place. > >Its in two DEC cabinets each 40in high x 20in wide x 30in deep. Once I've >dug it out from under three years accumulated clutter I can send further >details and/or pictures to anyone who is interested. It spent most of its >life in a climate-controlled equipment room at the hospital and I've >kept it in the house since so it is in quite clean condition. > >Once again, thanks for your help. > >Best Regards, > >David. > >--- > >David, > >With your permission, I'll forward this to a group of people who collect >and rescue such machines from the skip and give them a good home. I'd take >it myself, if I wasnt thousands of miles away. 8-) > >Let me know, and I'll forward this and have people contact you directly. > >Bill > >On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 10:50:45PM +0100, David Warden wrote: > > Dear Sir, > > I am trying to find a good home for a DEC PDP 11/84 mini computer > (circa 1986 > > vintage) which I salvaged in 1997 and whose space I now need. > > The working (when last powered up in 1999) system comprises the following > > main components: > > 11X84-BB > > TU80-CB > > RA81-AD > > and boots DSM 11 version 4.1. > > It was in use until 1997 running a laborartory system at a district > > general hospital. Since then it has been stored in the study at my > house in > > Gloucestershire, England. > > I am keen that this system should go to someone who will appreciate it > > and not just strip it for spares or try to sell it. If you have any > > bona fide contacts in the South West of England who might be interested > then > > I would be grateful if you could forward my e-mail details on to them. > > I do not want to advertise on the web or in the news groups since I don't > > want to get spam for everafter and want to be sure that anyone I deal > with is > > genuine. > > Thanks in anticipation of your help. > > Yours faithfully, > > David Warden > >----- End forwarded message ----- >_______________________________________________ >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Oct 22 17:37:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: good book on Pascal In-Reply-To: <200210222208.PAA29386@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <05b501c27a1b$d30d8720$90f8b8ce@impac.com> I'd suggest "Oh! Pascal" by Doug Cooper (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393954455/qid=1035325921 /sr=8-7/ref=sr_8_7/103-5078007-7222227?v=glance&n=507846) The second edition is from 1985 and is a generic Pascal text. It was the course text for one of my classes way back when and is an excellent resource. It may be more of a text then a reference, but if I remember correctly (I probably still have my copy boxed somewhere inaccessible), it will suffice as both. I saw several used copies on Amazon (the link above) for under $1.50. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 3:08 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: good book on Pascal Hi I'm looking for a good reference book on Pascal. I'm looking for something in the 1982 to 1985 time range. The Pascal, I have, is said to be MS-Pascal. I didn't know that they did a Pascal but it may have been someone elses that they OEM'd. I don't think it is Turbo Pascal so don't suggest your favorite TP book. Of course, it isn't on a x86 machine so there may be differences. I am mostly interested in the kind of things one would normally find in the object library that one would use with this compiler. They mention that it is a shared library with MS-FORTRAN. Information on FORTRAN libraries might also be useful. Thanks Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Oct 22 18:02:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: good book on Pascal Message-ID: <200210222303.QAA29398@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > ---snip--- > >> Of course, it isn't on a x86 machine so there may be >> differences. > >? >what version are you talking about? Hi Fred I'm not sure if this will help much because it was obviously cross compiled to run on a Z8000. Here is what prints out: Olivetti M20 Professional Computer Pascal Compiler Version 1.2 There is a file listing some of the library references that mentions that it is MS-Pascal. There is a librarian called mlib.cmd. You know, I'd only ask about weird things. > > >> I am mostly interested in the kind of things >> one would normally find in the object library that one >> would use with this compiler. They mention that it is >> a shared library with MS-FORTRAN. Information on FORTRAN >> libraries might also be useful. >> Thanks >> Dwight > >The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the >performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark >like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted >BASIC. I fear this may be similar. It takes 3 disk of code, just to run the Pascal compiler ( 280K disk ). If this is any indication, I'd suspect the final code isn't all that swift. I just want to play with it a little. Dwight > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From jss at subatomix.com Tue Oct 22 18:03:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Troll on imsai.net? In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFB74@lif015.merlincommunications.com> References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFB74@lif015.merlincommunications.com> Message-ID: <16580743432.20021022180449@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, Davison, Lee wrote: >> Second, I think that the 8" disk would be marked "SSDD", not "Single >> Sided Double Density", but I really haven't seen enough 8" disks to >> firmly decide that. Oops #1. > Got a stack of BASF 8" disks here. The label says .. > > BASF > Single Sided > Double Density Ok, well decrement my oops count to 2. -- Jeffrey Sharp From loedman1 at juno.com Tue Oct 22 18:18:01 2002 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 Message-ID: <20021022.161806.-142649.0.loedman1@juno.com> Looking for a Kaypro 10 with CP/M 2.2 OS. Drives must be in good shape Rich Stephenson loedman1@juno.com From emu at ecubics.com Tue Oct 22 18:18:49 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: good book on Pascal References: <200210222208.PAA29386@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3DB5DD96.C1677C21@ecubics.com> "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > Hi > I'm looking for a good reference book on Pascal. > I'm looking for something in the 1982 to 1985 time range. I learned pascal reading: Kathleen Jensen, Niklaus Wirth: Pascal User Manual And Report, Springer Differenet editions, oldest I have is 1975, there is a new one out which should be around 1990, including the ISO standard. cheers From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 22 18:38:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [ was: Re: A Momentous Decision ] In-Reply-To: <3DB44D71.16245.7521B5A@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Oct 21, 2 06:54:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1112 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021022/52dad0b6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 22 18:39:21 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: OT: Monitor repair In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Oct 21, 2 07:12:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1305 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021022/60524544/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 22 18:40:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Oct 21, 2 05:42:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 128 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021022/d44bb32a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 22 18:40:39 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: OT: Monitor repair In-Reply-To: <20021022021347.7155.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Oct 21, 2 07:13:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 886 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021022/1305527f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 22 18:41:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Tandy XENIX Disks In-Reply-To: from "Owen Robertson" at Oct 21, 2 10:07:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1790 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021022/2c061f44/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 22 18:42:04 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: VT52 repair In-Reply-To: <3DB44A01.8070203@gmx.net> from "Lothar Felten" at Oct 21, 2 08:40:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1939 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021022/c0ac8eb8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 22 18:42:56 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: DEC wiring colors and the PDP-8/e PSU In-Reply-To: <20021022044322.76888.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Oct 21, 2 09:43:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 807 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021022/b0a0fdd2/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 22 18:44:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: good book on Pascal In-Reply-To: <200210222303.QAA29398@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi Fred > I'm not sure if this will help much because it was obviously > cross compiled to run on a Z8000. Here is what prints out: > > Olivetti M20 Professional Computer Pascal Compiler Version 1.2 > > There is a file listing some of the library references that > mentions that it is MS-Pascal. There is a librarian called > mlib.cmd. > You know, I'd only ask about weird things. Ahhh I should have known. IIRC, the IBM/MS FORTRAN had an odd restriction that it could not handle any variable names that were 6 characters long, ending in QQ Unfortunately, I can no longer ask Bob Wallace about MS Pascal stuff. > I fear this may be similar. It takes 3 disk of code, just to run > the Pascal compiler ( 280K disk ). If this is any indication, I'd > suspect the final code isn't all that swift. I just want to play > with it a little. It should work for that. From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Oct 22 19:19:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [ was: Re: A Momentous Decision ] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > system driven by paranoid corporate business concerns, I call my computers > > by what they are. Maybe the Grid 1520 with the failed HD when I have > > The problem comes when you have several of the same machine.... It could be argued that if you have more than one of the same (classic) machine (which is usable), maybe you should be offering that to someone else who wants to play... -- Pat http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Oct 22 19:28:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: OT: Monitor repair In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > seems to have HV ok, but doesn't display any picture - but it appears to > > OK, check all the CRT voltages -- almost certainly one is missing. It is > _very_ uncommon for the deflection system to fail in a way that forces > the beam off-screen. OK, I can make it display a picture - if I press a button that displays the OSD, it'll play the OSD with a properly sync'd image in the background. However, the image very quicky (possibly somewhat random timebase) fades in and out, as if the brightness was being adjusted at a very fast rate. If I'm lucky, when I press a button to disable the OSD, the monitor will get 'stuck' in a brightness level that makes the picture visable. Simply trying to adjust the brightness and contrast with the front-panel controls offers no solution. > > be powered up ok. The D11 won't switch out of powersave mode. > > Assuming it fully powers up when it detects a valid sync signal, I would > start by checking it's getting sync (no sillies, like a broken cable!), > then look at the sync input circuitry. Alas it could also be the > microcontroller (I assume it uses a microcontroller to control things > like this -- most modern monitors seem to) that is not responding the the > sync input signal. I'll take a look at that once I get this E20 off of my workbench... -- Pat http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From cb at mythtech.net Tue Oct 22 19:30:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Someone was looking for a Packard Bell power supply Message-ID: A while back I was talking with someone from this list about a Packard Bell power supply they were looking for. We decided that the one I had wasn't the right one... but just a few minutes ago, I stripped a Packard Bell 486, and have its power supply. So whoever that was, if you are still in need of one, email me, and we'll see if this one fits your case. -chris From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 22 19:44:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: good book on Pascal In-Reply-To: <200210222208.PAA29386@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021022204642.478f06cc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dwight, MS did make Pascal and it did share some utilities and files with Fortran so that's probably what you have. Sorry I can't recommend a book since most of my work was with HP and Turbo Pascal. FWIW I went to library sale today and found a IBM BASIC compiler package. Joe At 03:08 PM 10/22/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > I'm looking for a good reference book on Pascal. >I'm looking for something in the 1982 to 1985 time range. >The Pascal, I have, is said to be MS-Pascal. I didn't know that >they did a Pascal but it may have been someone elses >that they OEM'd. I don't think it is Turbo Pascal >so don't suggest your favorite TP book. > Of course, it isn't on a x86 machine so there may be >differences. I am mostly interested in the kind of things >one would normally find in the object library that one >would use with this compiler. They mention that it is >a shared library with MS-FORTRAN. Information on FORTRAN >libraries might also be useful. >Thanks >Dwight > > > From blstuart at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 22 20:21:00 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 22 Oct 2002 07:14:15 -0700 (PDT) . Message-ID: In message , Ge ne Buckle writes: >> hal, sal, colossus, guaridan, zen, harlie, p1, mcp, >> joshua (ok, I forgot I really should have called it wopr), >> m5 and skynet >> > >speaking of which, was there ever a follow on to The Adolecense(sp) of P1? >That was a *great* book. Not that I recall. I do remember watching the bookstores for a while looking for other books by him. Back in college, P1 was considered as a sort of unofficial prerequisite for CS majors. I really need to take time to read it again someday soon. Brian L. Stuart From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Oct 22 20:34:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: OT: Monitor repair In-Reply-To: References: <20021022021347.7155.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021022183657.00ab7ec0@mail.zipcon.net> At 11:49 PM 10/22/02 +0100, you wrote: > > > > > > --- Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > I've got a rebadged Sony GDM-20E20 and GDM-20D11 that have some issues... > > > > Me, too. I have a GDM-20E20 that's gotten all fuzzy (not convergence - > > it's achromatic). Love to know what I can tweak. > >_Nothing_!!! > >When a fault develops, it is almost _never_ cured by an adjustment. There >is an actual component failure that you need to trace and fix. I've noticed that on the sun/sony monitors they seem to use undersized flyback xformers in the bigger models. they are using the same flyback in the 16's that they use in the 19's and 21's :( From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Oct 22 20:36:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Tandy XENIX Disks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021022183901.027843f0@mail.zipcon.net> At 11:56 PM 10/22/02 +0100, you wrote: >There are 2 things you can then do. The first is to dismantle the >defective switches, clean the metal contacts in the base with >propan-2-ol, and rub a little soft pencil (6B is available, at least in >the UK) onto the conductive rubber part. That will get the switch going >again, but it may well not last long. There are kits to recoat the rubber with a new conductive surface out there. also check your M4 Keyboard for bad solder joints on the keyswitches, I've had that problems with M3 and M4 KB's From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Oct 22 20:52:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Computer names Re: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: <20021019162300.86406.32002.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: >Just out of curiousity, how many other people here name their classic >computers (for reasons other than giving them a network address) Once I've worked with a computer enough, I name it. Classic or not. That probably contributes heavily to my resistance to replacing them with newer models. - Mark From ken at seefried.com Tue Oct 22 21:27:00 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: AT&T 458 Daisy Wheel Printer Equivalent? Message-ID: <20021023035644.25784.qmail@mail.seefried.com> I've got a brand new AT&T 458 Daisy Wheel printer, that doesn't have a daisy wheel. A quick glance at Google doesn't turn up anyone who sells apropos wheels. There is a theory that the 458 is a rebadged Qume. Does anyone know where to get 458 wheels, or what would be an equivalent printer that I could find wheels for? Ken From at258 at osfn.org Tue Oct 22 21:55:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [ was: Re: A Momentous Decision ] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I guess you aren't an LMS or Southern fan. :) On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I'm sorry but you guys are weird. Unless required by some @!@#$! net > > How long have you been reading this list? Most people recognise we're > weird in about 2 minutes flat :-) > > > system driven by paranoid corporate business concerns, I call my computers > > by what they are. Maybe the Grid 1520 with the failed HD when I have > > The problem comes when you have several of the same machine.... > > FWIW, I haven't properly named many of my machines yet. The PDP11/45 is > 'Malard' (one 'l' to keep it down to 6 characters) -- at the time I got > her, she was the fastest machine I owned, so she was named after the > fastest steam locomotive. My first PERQ is 'Evstar' or 'Evening Star', > also a steam locomotive -- the last one made for BR -- as the PERQ is in > some ways the last truely classic computer. My other PERQ 2 is 'King > George V', yet another steam loco -- one that was shiped to the States > for a time, and therefore fitted with a bell -- as that PERQ has all the > bells and whistles :-) > > I really must think up proper names for the P800s, other PDP11s and the > PDP8s. They deserve naming. > > -tony > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From msspcva at yahoo.com Tue Oct 22 22:22:00 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 MUX cable? In-Reply-To: <20021022015753.3F0C2617A8@mamacass.springsips.com> Message-ID: <20021023032355.39693.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> Modem control is the difference, plus the CXY is probably equipped with higher-performance UARTs. The extra serial ports out of the old MV3100 Model 20's extra serial port card were data leads only, DEC423 (compatible with RS232 of course). The 36 pin 'centronics style' cable goes to a H3104 8 MMJ port 'harmonica' breakout. I used to know what the cable number was; I have the H3104 in my cabinet of goodies but no cable is hiding in the drawer with it. Can't recall if I have one or not; but I think finding the number on the net would be relatively easy. Or send a message to Newman Computer Group, Gemini Digital, etc and find out how much they'd charge for one. Oh, and Brian, the serial ports on the back are actually NOT numbered the way you're thinking; the DB25 is TTA2:, the first MMJ port to the left looking at the back of the machine is OPA0: (console), the next is TTA1:, and the last is TTA3:. I took a good marker to my MV3100 Model 20e and marked those on the back 'cause I always forget. -- Frank --- Chris Craft wrote: > With my CXY08-M [M3119-YA] (in a VAX4000/500) I > luckily recieved the cables > that went with it. They are BC19N-12s > ("centronics-style" 50-pin male to 4 > DB-25 male). I could buzz them out for a pinout if > you'd like, but these are > apparently the wrong cables for yours as each has > only 4 ports instead of 8. > I suspect the difference (being lazy -- not looking > up specs) is that the > CXY08 has modem control. > > Sincerely, > Chris Craft, RetroComputing Nut. > > On Monday 21 October 2002 16:30, Brian Chase wrote: > > I've got an early MicroVAX 3100; one of the ones > that just reads > > "MicroVAX 3100" across the front. On the back of > the system there are > > three MMJ serial ports identified as 1-3, there's > an DB-25M port which > > I'd imagine is serial port 0 (the console), and > beneath that is a > > 36-pin Centronics style connector labelled 4-11 > with the DEC serial > > port pictograph beneath it. I'd gather this is > for some sort of serial > > port cable "octopus." > > > > Does anyone have a spare one of these cables or a > part number for > > this cable? Thanks. > > > > -brian. ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 22 22:42:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: OT: Monitor repair In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021022183657.00ab7ec0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <20021022021347.7155.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021022183657.00ab7ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <2340.4.20.168.211.1035344624.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Geoff Reed wrote: > I've noticed that on the sun/sony monitors they seem to use undersized > flyback xformers in the bigger models. they are using the same flyback > in the 16's that they use in the 19's and 21's :( Assuming that the minimum size of the flyback needs to scale with the size of the tube (and I'm not certain that it does, from empirical observations), the use of the same size in a 16 and a 21 doesn't necessarily mean that the one in the 16 is too small. It could just as easily have chosen one flyback that is adequate for a 21, and used it across the product line. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 22 22:45:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Reading floppies under Linux Message-ID: <2377.4.20.168.211.1035344816.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> After that thread about reading various floppy formats under Linux, and I went to the trouble of packaging up a prerelease of dmklib, releasing it on SourceForge, and announcing it here, I'm somewhat disappointed that no one has downloaded it. I was hoping for some feedback. Sigh. From whdawson at localisps.net Tue Oct 22 23:05:00 2002 From: whdawson at localisps.net (whdawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Any significance? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021019124921.02a55e40@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <000001c27a4a$1e406360$19a7fea9@jessie> > [[ the systems I used were the Compugraphic PowerView 10 (mostly) and 5 > (sometimes) -- these were special machines running on an 80186 and booted > from floppy. (There might have been a hard drive interface for 'em, but you > wouldn't wanna see the price!!!) Yes, there was a hard drive unit. The one I have was OK as of last year and working with my CG systems (MCS5/MCS10?). Yes, lots of 186's. The floppy units can still be used for running programs and loading fonts. Also have a couple of the Compugraphic (hacked and rebadged NEC 286's) boxes. > Later in life, I used a [brainfreeze on the model number] 3400? > output unit that did everything with a CRT to create the characters, > lenses to change the size, and fonts & metrics were all on floppy. 8" floppies. I just scrapped one of these phototypesetters a couple of months ago. Kept most of the parts but discarded the frame/carcass. Also kept the "CRT box". It's unique, for sure. > IIRC, on the later unit, the output was somewhere in the > 2400DPI range. (this back when lasers barely made 300dpi, and Canon's > bubblejet was just getting up to 180x360 dpi...) The Compugraphic laser phototypesetter I have is a model 9600. IIRC its only 600DPI. Bill From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 23 00:21:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Reading floppies under Linux In-Reply-To: <2377.4.20.168.211.1035344816.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > After that thread about reading various floppy formats under > Linux, and I went to the trouble of packaging up a prerelease of > dmklib, releasing it on SourceForge, and announcing it here, I'm > somewhat disappointed that no one has downloaded it. I was hoping > for some feedback. Sigh. Sorry. We really do appreciateyour efforts. I'm swamped through this weekend (VCF), and through the following weekend (conference). Then I've got a very small amount of time before Comdex. After thanksgiving, I DO plan to take a close look at it. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Oct 23 01:08:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: OT: Monitor repair In-Reply-To: <2340.4.20.168.211.1035344624.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021022183657.00ab7ec0@mail.zipcon.net> <20021022021347.7155.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021022183657.00ab7ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021022231028.0460a220@mail.zipcon.net> At 08:43 PM 10/22/02 -0700, you wrote: >Geoff Reed wrote: > > I've noticed that on the sun/sony monitors they seem to use undersized > > flyback xformers in the bigger models. they are using the same flyback > > in the 16's that they use in the 19's and 21's :( > >Assuming that the minimum size of the flyback needs to scale with the size >of the tube (and I'm not certain that it does, from empirical observations), >the use of the same size in a 16 and a 21 doesn't necessarily mean that the >one in the 16 is too small. It could just as easily have chosen one >flyback that is adequate for a 21, and used it across the product line. Nope, the sun 19 and 21 inchers (at least the early ones) tended to be built with flybacks that were specced for the 16" monitors, later models had one type of flyback in the 16 and 19's and a different one in the 20's and 21's. the flyback was heavier duty and tended not to fail as quickly. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Oct 23 01:47:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 MUX cable? In-Reply-To: <20021023032355.39693.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > Modem control is the difference, plus the CXY is probably equipped > with higher-performance UARTs. The extra serial ports out of the old > MV3100 Model 20's extra serial port card were data leads only, DEC423 > (compatible with RS232 of course). The 36 pin 'centronics style' > cable goes to a H3104 8 MMJ port 'harmonica' breakout. > > I used to know what the cable number was; I have the H3104 in my > cabinet of goodies but no cable is hiding in the drawer with it. > Can't recall if I have one or not; but I think finding the number on > the net would be relatively easy. Based on feedback from several sources, the cable I'm looking for is the BC16C (i.e. BC16C-10 for the 10ft long one.) I managed to find the following pin out information for the BC16C: -> The BC16C and BC16D cables are used in conjunction with the H3104 -> Cable Concentrator (Harmonica). -> -> Specification: -> -> PVC shielded, 1.5cm diameter. -> -> Number Of Conductors 36, consisting of 18 twisted pairs. -> -> Connectors BC16C - one right-angle 36-way centronics style -> connector, and one straight 36-way centronics connector. -> -> BC16D - two right-angle 36-way centronics style connectors. -> -> Wiring Pin to pin. -> -> Pin Signal Pin Signal -> 1 Line 0 Tx+ 19 Line 0 Tx- -> 2 Line 0 Rx+ 20 Line 0 Rx- -> 3 Line 1 Tx+ 21 Line 1 Tx- -> 4 Line 1 Rx+ 22 Line 1 Rx- -> etc etc -> 15 Line 7 Tx+ 33 Line 7 Tx- -> 16 Line 7 Rx+ 34 Line 7 Rx- -> 17 Spare 35 Spare -> 18 Spare 36 Spare If I were feeling bored, it would be rather easy to hack together one of my own cables. > Oh, and Brian, the serial ports on the back are actually NOT numbered > the way you're thinking; the DB25 is TTA2:, the first MMJ port to the > left looking at the back of the machine is OPA0: (console), the next > is TTA1:, and the last is TTA3:. I'll definitely keep this in mind. I would note that the relative positions of the ports on the back of my MV3100 are somewhat different from a standard MV3100. Also, I believe the other fellow's images I'm referencing here are mislabelled. I think his system is a MicroVAX 3100/10 and that he's confused the "M30" designation with that of the vanilla VAXstation 3100 (a.k.a. the VAXstation 3100/M30). Front of a regular MV3100: http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/alf/mv3100_m30/mv3100_m30_full.jpeg Front of my rackmount MV3100: http://world.std.com/~bdc/pics/mv3100/mv3100-1.jpg Back of a regular MV3100: http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/alf/mv3100_m30/mv3100_m30_rear_full.jpeg Back of my rackmount MV3100: http://world.std.com/~bdc/pics/mv3100/mv3100-2.jpg http://world.std.com/~bdc/pics/mv3100/mv3100-3.jpg It's obvious some of the ports were shuffled when they redesigned the case. -brian. From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 23 02:00:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > When I was a VMS computer operator at Subway World Headquarters, > all of the Vaxes were named after the different sandwiches and toppings > we sold... Combo, Tomato, Meatball (Unix, for web stuff), Salami (the > voicemail VAX), Olive... Ok, the whole Jared thing is bad enough. But now this? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Oct 23 03:14:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <00f201c279e0$3f44bda0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <003b01c2795f$b8042a90$7800a8c0@george> <20021022143045.GD5689397@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021023181231.0262a6b8@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 10:32 AM 22/10/2002 -0500, Jay West wrote: >I personally don't name machines by "what they are", for very good reason. >Plus, no one but the admin group uses the "real" machine names, also for >very good reason. Here's some illustrative examples... > >If you call an HP K370 "k370.somedomain.com", and then upgrade it to a K570 >by just adding a few more cpu cards, do you really want to still call it >K370.somedomain.com? If not, you have to retrain your user community and >this is a pain, and kinda defeats the whole idea of using meaningful names >so people don't need to know IP addresses. As a result, machine names >generally indicate what they are used for... so a machine that processes >orders might be "orders.somedomain.com". However, this can cause issues >unless the second point below is heeded... I think there's a big difference between what you call systems at home and what you do in your job. At home I don't see a problem with calling a system whatever you like and as I said before, I tend to refer to systems by their function. If I was still naming systems for work (and by inference for lots of other people) it'd be different. No fancy names that only you can remember the spelling of either - it took me a long time to work out why one of the systems at work was called IJFW01 - let's see how long it takes someone to work that one out.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From hansp at aconit.org Wed Oct 23 05:13:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Educational Computer Corporation ? Message-ID: <3DB67681.1000405@aconit.org> Anyone heard of this company, apparently made or OEM'd minicomputers probably in the early 70's. I have a lead on a system and this is the only info I have so far. -- hbp From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Oct 23 05:44:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Educational Computer Corporation ? In-Reply-To: <3DB67681.1000405@aconit.org> References: <3DB67681.1000405@aconit.org> Message-ID: <1035369970.24410.0.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> On Wed, 2002-10-23 at 06:14, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Anyone heard of this company, apparently made or OEM'd minicomputers > probably in the early 70's. I have a lead on a system and this is the > only info I have so far. > I'm thinking this could be EduComp, who sold repackaged PDP-8/e's to schools. From djg at drs-esg.com Wed Oct 23 07:05:01 2002 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: DEC wiring colors and the PDP-8/e PSU Message-ID: <200210231207.IAA01442@drs-esg.com> > If anyone happens to have their PSU dismantled > enough to see the back, I need to know which half of the breaker, > white-lead or black-lead, attaches to the lone white wire, and which > one attaches to the red wire (with a companion wire). > Did you look at the pictures on http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8em/pdp8em.shtml ? When I fixed the fuse a while ago I took a bunch of pictures of the inside of the power supply. If you select the large size you get pretty good detail. This is probably the best for what you are needing http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8em/pics/h724inp.shtml?large David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 23 07:28:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 (fwd) Message-ID: Here's the reply I got: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:55:54 -0400 From: Sorcipit To: Sellam Ismail Subject: Re: IBM 5100 I already have an offer of $ 1,000 USD plus shipping on that system. Im of course considering all offer on the 5100. Thx. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 23 07:36:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Educational Computer Corporation ? In-Reply-To: <3DB67681.1000405@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021023084135.4787b454@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Yes I've heard of them. If it the same company, they're located here in Orlando and they build all kinds of stuff mainly for the US Government including lots of training equipment. I've known a couple of people that worked for them but I don't know much else about the company except that they don't pay very much. I don't know how long they've been around but I first heard of them in about 1985 and they were an established company then. AFIK they're still in business. Joe At 12:14 PM 10/23/02 +0200, you wrote: >Anyone heard of this company, apparently made or OEM'd minicomputers >probably in the early 70's. I have a lead on a system and this is the >only info I have so far. > > -- hbp > > > > From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Oct 23 07:59:01 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021018171302.00b9eb18@kerberos.davies.net.au> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021017191512.02420c78@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021023225927.0262a6b8@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 05:37 PM 18/10/2002 +1000, Huw Davies wrote: >I've spent quite some time web browsing and the photos of early Ferranti, >Marconi or ICT (ICL) that I've found don't match my recollections. I'm >still working on the premise that at that time a UK university would have >bought British (and at that time there was probably no good reason not to). OK, well I finally decided to ask my father who was a lecturer in the Physics department at Keele at the time (which explains why I got the guided tour there). He could clearly remember that the computer belonged to the Chemistry department and with a bit of prompting he was reasonably sure that it was a Ferranti rather than an English Electric given that he knew people in both organizations. When I suggested it could be a Mercury he commented well it was something like that. I guess unless someone can come up with better evidence then I'm going to conclude that the computer was a Ferranti Mercury and that my recollections of the console are not quite reliable :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 23 08:56:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: DEC wiring colors and the PDP-8/e PSU In-Reply-To: <200210231207.IAA01442@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <20021023135750.15975.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Gesswein wrote: > > If anyone happens to have their PSU dismantled > > enough to see the back, I need to know which half of the breaker, > > white-lead or black-lead, attaches to the lone white wire, and which > > one attaches to the red wire (with a companion wire). > > > Did you look at... http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8em/pics/h724inp.shtml?large Nope. Didn't think to look on your site for something as specific as an internal PSU shot. Looks like exactly what I needed. Thanks! From what I can see in your picture, white does go with white. The only "tricky" part is that in my PSU, the wire that goes on the hot terminal with the red is cloth covered and white (the other white wire is plastic covered). It goes to the transformer in the top right of your picture and half-way there, it's painted black! Armed with this, it appears that my worries were unfounded - I did reassemble my breaker correctly. Now to replace/augment the rivets. Looks like your mains leads are removable from the breaker. Mine are not. Thanks for the link and the confirmation. Now to get back to chip-level CPU trouble-shooting before testing new OMNIBUS aquisitions (RK8E, MM8E and KL8E) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Oct 23 09:31:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: A Momentous Decision In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10/23/02, Sellam Ismail scribbled: > On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > > > When I was a VMS computer operator at Subway World Headquarters, > > all of the Vaxes were named after the different sandwiches and toppings > > we sold... Combo, Tomato, Meatball (Unix, for web stuff), Salami (the > > voicemail VAX), Olive... > > Ok, the whole Jared thing is bad enough. But now this? Ehh, don't worry Sellam. Those Vaxes had those names for over 7 years now. The names are courtesy of one of the best managers I've worked for. A grumpy and fair man named Bob. He didn't "give a shit what you did, just keep the customer (user) happy, and get the damn job done." What sucks is they got rid of those Vaxes. I wonder what happened to them... Would've been nice to have gotten my hands on one. Combo was quite impressive looking. Dual 6' tall racks, and a 3 1/2' tall rack in the middle. I'll have to see if I can find a matching picture in the net... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Wed Oct 23 10:02:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 Message-ID: <20021023150551.SION14849.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Happy hunting. The last one I saw on eBay went for $175, no diskettes, no manuals, just the box. Glen 0/0 ---------- > From: loedman1@juno.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Kaypro 10 > Date: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 7:18 PM > > Looking for a Kaypro 10 with CP/M 2.2 OS. Drives must be in good shape > > Rich Stephenson > loedman1@juno.com If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Oct 23 10:04:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021023181231.0262a6b8@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > I think there's a big difference between what you call systems at home > and what you do in your job. At home I don't see a problem with > calling a system whatever you like and as I said before, I tend to > refer to systems by their function. If I was still naming systems for > work (and by inference for lots of other people) it'd be different. No > fancy names that only you can remember the spelling of either - it > took me a long time to work out why one of the systems at work was > called IJFW01 - let's see how long it takes someone to work that one > out.... It Just F*cking Works 01? -brian. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 23 11:10:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) Message-ID: I like what my computer is named (work): VAX11785.. my dad's computer formerly was VAX11780, but that was 2 machines ago.. and now his is faster : ( Will J _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!  Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 23 11:51:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: HP 2647A / F Terminal & HP1000 Message-ID: Closest I ever came to cables was the hacked-off ends as gold scrap : ( Will J _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From allain at panix.com Wed Oct 23 12:39:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: 3RGB -> D?15F VGA References: Message-ID: <000701c27abb$44e61e80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> I need help in finding a D?15F to 3+BNC break out cable so as to connect RGB-3BNC hosts to a VGA muntisynch monitor. The reverse I can find: the cable that connects a 3BNC monitor to the D?15F connector on a PC host, but not this one, where I just have a monitor with the D?15M connector. Any help in locating one is appreciated. John A. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Oct 23 12:55:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:13 2005 Subject: 3RGB -> D?15F VGA References: <000701c27abb$44e61e80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3DB6E207.2EF1799@ccp.com> Hold onto your wallet, they ain't cheap, around $20. A place called Monitor Depot in Riverside (kansas City suburb) Missouri, on Vivion Road has a whole big box of them. Just bought one a week ago. E-mail me for details offlist. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO John Allain wrote: > > I need help in finding a D?15F to 3+BNC break out cable so > as to connect RGB-3BNC hosts to a VGA muntisynch monitor. > > The reverse I can find: the cable that connects a 3BNC monitor > to the D?15F connector on a PC host, but not this one, where I > just have a monitor with the D?15M connector. > > Any help in locating one is appreciated. > > John A. From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Oct 23 12:56:01 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <09B2E522-E6B1-11D6-9D70-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> At my last job, we never named a machine for who used it or what it did, When we setup the machine for the customs group, we made the mistake of naming it "customs", then when we moved the transportation group onto it the customs group put up a big stink :^) We had names like: Pandora, Indigo, Mozart, Electra, Jetset From dittman at dittman.net Wed Oct 23 13:24:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <09B2E522-E6B1-11D6-9D70-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> from "Ron Hudson" at Oct 23, 2002 10:58:30 AM Message-ID: <200210231819.g9NIJqX31157@narnia.int.dittman.net> I had some VMS systems that I named SKITZO, PSYCHO, and PHLEGM. I was limited to six characters for the name due to DECnet. I was going for odd names. I was going to name the next one SMEGMA, but the order was cancelled. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Oct 23 13:31:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: HP1000 Card Edge Connectors Message-ID: I think the necessary connector is a dual row 48 contact 0.156" spacing card edge connector. I'll have to see if I can find a source. I think some place like http://www.edac.net would let you specify such a connector, but actually buying some in low quantities might be a different story. -Glen >From: "Will Jennings" >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: HP 2647A / F Terminal & HP1000 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:52:43 -0600 > >Closest I ever came to cables was the hacked-off ends as gold scrap : ( > >Will J _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From salo at Xtrmntr.org Wed Oct 23 13:33:01 2002 From: salo at Xtrmntr.org (Lubomir Sedlacik) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: <20021022143045.GD5689397@uiuc.edu> References: <003b01c2795f$b8042a90$7800a8c0@george> <20021022143045.GD5689397@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20021023183424.GC14058@Xtrmntr.org> hi, for few years now i have a file 'hostnames' sitting in my ~/doc, which contains a list of names of my current, past and future computers. the logic is simple, every time i get an idea about new name i add it there. when i get a new computer i always have few names to choose from. when a computer goes away, it's name is free for future use again unless i have some reason not to do so (like parasits waiting for a new host :). aurora - x86 laptop fnord - Sun SPARCstation 5 motoko - Sun SPARCstation 2 otaku - x86 server radiator - Data General AViiON AV530 stalker - x86 test server tao - DEC MicroVAX 3100 M10e tesla - Sun Ultra 1 tsunami - Sun JavaStation NC vertigo - Sun SPARCstation 10 lomo * - Sun SPARCstation 4 toaster * - SGI O2 (* these two belong to a friend of mine but are in the same dns domain) as you can see some of them got their names due to physical dispositions, like radiator and toaster :). at my workplace we use to vote names for new machines. latest additions are: trauma/stress - Sun Ultra Enterprise E3500 (dual-homed, one interface is on LAN for SunRays, second one is connected to WAN) gargantua-1/2 - Sun Ultra Enterprise E4500 cluster $.02 ;) regards, -- -- Lubomir Sedlacik ASCII Ribbon campaign against /"\ -- -- e-mail in gratuitous HTML and \ / -- -- Microsoft proprietary formats X -- -- PGPkey: http://Xtrmntr.org/salo.pgp / \ -- -- Key Fingerprint: 75B2 2B96 CD75 0385 1C49 39B8 8B08 C30E 54BC 7263 -- From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Oct 23 14:13:00 2002 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: suggestions for where to post adverts?? Message-ID: <20021023191430.83746.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> hi all, back on the list after maybe a three year absence - nice to see the list is still going! anyone know of a good place to post adverts for classic stuff? I'm sure it used to be frowned upon on this list, and probably still is; I've checked the FAQ on www.classiccmp.org and it's missing the whole section on list etiquette though, so I'm none the wiser :-) (rather not use loot, ebay etc. unless I have to as I don't want the machine being turned into a coffee table, beer fridge, ashtray etc. etc.!) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Oct 23 14:48:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: <20021023183424.GC14058@Xtrmntr.org> Message-ID: All this talk of naming systems has made me realize just how boring the names of my machines at home are. So, I think I shall rename all mine after famous ships that have sunk: Thresher Scorpion Titanic Sultana Andrea Doria Kiangya Lady Of The Lake Estonia Kind of fitting, and hopefully not a portent, for someone who lives on a houseboat, eh? --John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 23 14:52:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: suggestions for where to post adverts?? In-Reply-To: <20021023191430.83746.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021023155528.518fff1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jules, IMO this is the place to advertise it if it has anythign to do with Classic computers. After all this list is for Collecting, repairing and using classic computers. Yes, some people frown on it but there are MANY people on the list that would probably be interested in buying CC related items. Joe At 08:14 PM 10/23/02 +0100, you wrote: >hi all, > >back on the list after maybe a three year absence - nice to see the list is >still going! > >anyone know of a good place to post adverts for classic stuff? I'm sure it used >to be frowned upon on this list, and probably still is; I've checked the FAQ on >www.classiccmp.org and it's missing the whole section on list etiquette though, >so I'm none the wiser :-) > >(rather not use loot, ebay etc. unless I have to as I don't want the machine >being turned into a coffee table, beer fridge, ashtray etc. etc.!) > >cheers > >Jules > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 23 14:59:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: 3RGB -> D?15F VGA In-Reply-To: <000701c27abb$44e61e80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20021023200035.41352.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > I need help in finding a D?15F to 3+BNC break out cable so > as to connect RGB-3BNC hosts to a VGA muntisynch monitor. > > The reverse I can find: the cable that connects a 3BNC monitor > to the D?15F connector on a PC host, but not this one, where I > just have a monitor with the D?15M connector. > > Any help in locating one is appreciated. Much cheaper than a reverse cable might be a Female-to-Female HD-15 gender converter - I've seen them at Hamfests for much less than $5. If cost is an object and effort isn't, you *could* scavenge a pair of female connectors and wire up your own gender bender. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Oct 23 15:02:01 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You might want to include "mk48_ascap" :) g. On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > All this talk of naming systems has made me realize just how boring the > names of my machines at home are. So, I think I shall rename all mine after > famous ships that have sunk: > > Thresher > Scorpion > Titanic > Sultana > Andrea Doria > Kiangya > Lady Of The Lake > Estonia > > Kind of fitting, and hopefully not a portent, for someone who lives on a > houseboat, eh? > > --John > > > From jplist at kiwigeek.com Wed Oct 23 15:02:46 2002 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > All this talk of naming systems has made me realize just how boring the > names of my machines at home are. So, I think I shall rename all mine after I can appreciate that sentiment, I've been thinking the same thing... My PC workstation is 'Rosetta', where it came from I'm not even sure anymore, which shows you its lack of importance. The wifes Windows machine is condescendingly named 'Winbox'. And most of my other machines are named precisely what they are, 'indy', 'indigo', 'sparc1'... Boring, no? :P There are three exceptions. The first is the Sun 386i which must have been auctioned in a lot at one point, and each part (Monitor, chassis, keyboard, box of cables, box of media, etc) had a number like "1 of 8", "2 of 8" on it... The Chassis has "3 of 8" and, with deference to Jeri Ryan (Rrrowr), became "3of8". The other is my Sun 4/470 SparcServer unit, which I acquired from an ISP, that was already named - Shemal. And I have absolutely no clue what in the heck a Shemal is, apart from being spelt frightfully close to "SheMale" - but given it was the primary WWW/FTP/Mail server of the ISP, I find that like unlikely... It's sister machine, a 4/260, I also have - atlantis. If anyone has any clues what Shemal might be in reference to, I'd love to know ;P JP From marvin at rain.org Wed Oct 23 15:04:01 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: suggestions for where to post adverts?? References: <20021023191430.83746.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DB700ED.3D5FE44D@rain.org> Jules Richardson wrote: > > hi all, > > back on the list after maybe a three year absence - nice to see the list is > still going! > > anyone know of a good place to post adverts for classic stuff? I'm sure it used > to be frowned upon on this list, and probably still is; I've checked the FAQ on > www.classiccmp.org and it's missing the whole section on list etiquette though, > so I'm none the wiser :-) This list is fine, and people do it semi-regularly with items for trade, free, and of course, for sale. From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Oct 23 15:12:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My apologies, that should be "mk48_adcap". g. On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > You might want to include "mk48_ascap" :) > > g. > > > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > > > All this talk of naming systems has made me realize just how boring the > > names of my machines at home are. So, I think I shall rename all mine after > > famous ships that have sunk: > > > > Thresher > > Scorpion > > Titanic > > Sultana > > Andrea Doria > > Kiangya > > Lady Of The Lake > > Estonia > > > > Kind of fitting, and hopefully not a portent, for someone who lives on a > > houseboat, eh? > > > > --John > > > > > > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 23 15:17:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: suggestions for where to post adverts?? References: <3.0.6.16.20021023155528.518fff1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <003301c27ad1$3f73c360$033310ac@kwcorp.com> You wrote... > >anyone know of a good place to post adverts for classic stuff? I'm sure it used > >to be frowned upon on this list, and probably still is; I've checked the FAQ on > >www.classiccmp.org and it's missing the whole section on list etiquette though, > >so I'm none the wiser :-) We have installed a special email address for posting all offers of available equipment. When you post any offers of equipment, especially free equipment, you should send it to jwest@classiccmp.org You see, that's a special address that gets posted to the list extra quick *GRIN* JUST KIDDING!!!!! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 23 15:27:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Morrow Radio Mfg Co. Salem, Or. ? and/or Heathkit Technical Applications Bulletins? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021023163226.51cfdc36@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know anything about this company? Or if it's related to Morrow computers? I found this address on the instruction manual for Morrow convertors. The convertors were super hetrodyne tuners for use for auto radios and would allow the reception of 10-15-20-40-75-80 meter stations. I found this manual in a binder of Heathkit Technical Applications Bulletins dated 1952/1953. I've never even heard of these bulletins before but they look pretty interesting. Does anyone know more about them or when Heathkit stopped printing them? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 23 15:31:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: suggestions for where to post adverts?? In-Reply-To: <003301c27ad1$3f73c360$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021023155528.518fff1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021023163654.51cf193c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:17 PM 10/23/02 -0500, Jay West wrote: >You wrote... >> >anyone know of a good place to post adverts for classic stuff? I'm sure >it used >> >to be frowned upon on this list, and probably still is; I've checked the >FAQ on >> >www.classiccmp.org and it's missing the whole section on list etiquette >though, >> >so I'm none the wiser :-) > >We have installed a special email address for posting all offers of >available equipment. When you post any offers of equipment, especially free >equipment, you should send it to jwest@classiccmp.org You see, that's a >special address >that gets posted to the list extra quick *GRIN* Jay forgot to add "with a few deletions!" Joe :-) From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Oct 23 16:09:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Micom 2000 Message-ID: Well, maybe I just scored an ebay bargan. I just "bought-it-now" for $30 plus shipping. A quick web search seems to indicate that this is an early (1975?) 8080 based small business computer. There is an old classiccmp thread with a few general messages about this box. Anybody want to talk about it... what software it runs, etc. Did I just throw $50 away? Bill From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Oct 23 16:21:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: HP1000 Card Edge Connectors References: Message-ID: <3DB713DA.4090300@tiac.net> You might try any of the HP1000 support companies such as crisis computer, MBC Inc, etc. Some of these cables are very common, and they might actually be affordable. In some cases these companies might really need some I/O board you have no use for, and swap the cable you need for the part they need. Its worth a try. Glen Slick wrote: > I think the necessary connector is a dual row 48 contact 0.156" > spacing card edge connector. I'll have to see if I can find a > source. I think some place like http://www.edac.net would let you > specify such a connector, but actually buying some in low quantities > might be a different story. > > -Glen > > >> From: "Will Jennings" >> Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Re: HP 2647A / F Terminal & HP1000 >> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:52:43 -0600 >> >> Closest I ever came to cables was the hacked-off ends as gold scrap : ( >> >> Will J > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Oct 23 16:26:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Morrow Radio Mfg Co. Salem, Or. ? and/or Heathkit TechnicalApplications Bulletins? References: <3.0.6.16.20021023163226.51cfdc36@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DB7134A.F16E703C@ccp.com> Joe wrote: > > Does anyone know anything about this company? Or if it's related to Morrow computers? I found this address on the instruction manual for Morrow convertors. The convertors were super hetrodyne tuners for use for auto radios and would allow the reception of 10-15-20-40-75-80 meter stations. This is radio stuff, not computers ---- has nothing to do with Morrow computers. Gary HIldebrand > > I found this manual in a binder of Heathkit Technical Applications Bulletins dated 1952/1953. I've never even heard of these bulletins before but they look pretty interesting. Does anyone know more about them or when Heathkit stopped printing them? > > Joe From donm at cts.com Wed Oct 23 16:31:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: 3RGB -> D?15F VGA In-Reply-To: <000701c27abb$44e61e80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, John Allain wrote: > I need help in finding a D?15F to 3+BNC break out cable so > as to connect RGB-3BNC hosts to a VGA muntisynch monitor. > > The reverse I can find: the cable that connects a 3BNC monitor > to the D?15F connector on a PC host, but not this one, where I > just have a monitor with the D?15M connector. > > Any help in locating one is appreciated. > > John A. How about the cable that you can find and a female to female adapter. They are available and relatively inexpensive. - don From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Oct 23 17:31:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021023153400.02ce7a30@mail.zipcon.net> so he found someone who's smoking crack then.... At 05:29 AM 10/23/02 -0700, you wrote: >Here's the reply I got: > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:55:54 -0400 >From: Sorcipit >To: Sellam Ismail >Subject: Re: IBM 5100 > >I already have an offer of $ 1,000 USD plus shipping on that system. Im of >course considering all offer on the 5100. > >Thx. > > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 23 18:21:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: OT: Monitor repair In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Oct 22, 2 07:31:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1372 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021023/9a9686e4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 23 18:21:55 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Tandy XENIX Disks In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021022183901.027843f0@mail.zipcon.net> from "Geoff Reed" at Oct 22, 2 06:40:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1214 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021023/04645f47/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 23 18:23:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: suggestions for where to post adverts?? In-Reply-To: <20021023191430.83746.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Oct 23, 2 08:14:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 505 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021023/37bc4111/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 23 18:27:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021023153400.02ce7a30@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > so he found someone who's smoking crack then.... Well, it gets worse. Here's his latest (unsolicited) solicitation (of sorts). -- Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:44:46 -0400 From: Sorcipit To: foo@siconic.com Subject: Fw: IBM 5100 I already have an offer of $ 1,200 USD plus shipping on that system. Im of course considering a better offer for it. Thx. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 23 18:28:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Wired story on VCF 5.0 Message-ID: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,55949,00.html Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From msspcva at yahoo.com Wed Oct 23 18:31:00 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: OT: Shipping a large, heavy crate Message-ID: <20021023233231.95420.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> As promised, the results of my shipment of a large heavy pallet: The package was picked up on time by the shipping company selected from freightquote.com's list of shippers (I took the cheapest). That was Monday this week. Delivery occurred this morning (Wednesday), it was supposed to take 3 business days so they somewhat beat their estimate. They did NOT call the receiving party prior to showing up, but it turned out OK, and everything arrived in one peice. This was a pallet load of 9 track tapes and weighed in at 712 pounds. -- Frank --- Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > FWIW: > > I'm in the process of using freightquote.com's > service > to do this very thing. I signed up for my > corporation > but I don't normally ship a large amount of stuff; I > have a bunch of older AS/400 gear I'm trying to sell > off. > > I have a pallet of 650 pounds (U.S.), standard > sized, > quoted to ship from Roanoke to Illionis for $184 > with > 3 day delivery. On Monday I'll find out if the > shipping company (Central Transport International) > will pick it up on time; on Thursday or Friday I'll > find out if it got destroyed enroute (which is what > insurance is for!). > > I'll post an after-action report once I find out how > it went. > > -- Frank > > --- Eric Smith wrote: > > Robert A. Feldman wrote: > > > I need to ship a large, heavy crate (about 30" x > > 12" x 72" and around > > > 200-250 pounds) in the US. What company would > you > > recommend? > > > Please answer off-list, directly to my email. > > > > Actually, please DO answer on-list. This > > information is of general > > interest to many of us. > > > > > > > > > ===== > = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S > P. C.= > Clayton Frank Helvey, President > Montvale Software Services, P. C. > P.O. Box 840 > Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 > Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com > ============================================================ > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More > http://faith.yahoo.com > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Oct 23 18:55:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Wired story on VCF 5.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,55949,00.html Oh, nice article. I'd be curious to know how the data recovery and archival project turns out. -brian. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 23 19:00:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: e-Bay is not the only plzce where prices can get out of control. On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > so he found someone who's smoking crack then.... > > Well, it gets worse. Here's his latest (unsolicited) solicitation (of > sorts). > > -- > > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:44:46 -0400 > From: Sorcipit > To: foo@siconic.com > Subject: Fw: IBM 5100 > > I already have an offer of $ 1,200 USD plus shipping on that system. Im of > course considering a better offer for it. > > Thx. > > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Oct 23 19:04:00 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:15:27 +1000 . <4.3.2.7.2.20021023181231.0262a6b8@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: In message <4.3.2.7.2.20021023181231.0262a6b8@kerberos.davies.net.au>, Huw Davi es writes: >at work was called IJFW01 - let's see how long it takes someone to work Ok, it's a long shot, but how about the first firewall between the Internet and a Janet network? Brian L. Stuart From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Oct 23 19:36:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021023181231.0262a6b8@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021024103543.02412a80@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 08:05 AM 23/10/2002 -0700, Brian Chase wrote: >On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > > > I think there's a big difference between what you call systems at home > > and what you do in your job. At home I don't see a problem with > > calling a system whatever you like and as I said before, I tend to > > refer to systems by their function. If I was still naming systems for > > work (and by inference for lots of other people) it'd be different. No > > fancy names that only you can remember the spelling of either - it > > took me a long time to work out why one of the systems at work was > > called IJFW01 - let's see how long it takes someone to work that one > > out.... > >It Just F*cking Works 01? 10 out of 10! It took me weeks (OK, months) to work out what it meant and in that period it was painful whenever I tried to telnet in as I just couldn't work out the hostname! One other VMS box I look after is called GODOWN. Now this might seem a very strange name for a VMS box. Apparently the name is short for GODSOWN (as in God's Own Country) but the six character limitation for DECnet lead to the shorter name. However, when GODOWN gets clustered the obvious name for the other node is STAYUP :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 23 19:38:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] Message-ID: Just think, since some of those are subs, (Thresher I know is, I believe Scorpion is as well), why not name one machine DICASS? For those not in the know, thats the AN/SSQ-62B Directional Command Activated Sonobuoy System... And yes, the Navy really *does* call it DICASS... They're death to subs, usually lead to a direct ping by a dipping sonar, and then the helicopter crew shouts "weapon away!" and you get torpedoed/depth-charged/all of the above! Will J _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From jss at subatomix.com Wed Oct 23 19:43:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: suggestions for where to post adverts?? In-Reply-To: <20021023191430.83746.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021023191430.83746.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <116526467.20021023194454@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, Jules Richardson wrote: > I've checked the FAQ on www.classiccmp.org and it's missing the whole > section on list etiquette I'm still working on it. I have two more months of school and a new full-time job, so time is scarce. I might actually get some real work done on stuff tomorrow afternoon, but there are no promises. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Oct 23 19:49:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: suggestions for where to post adverts?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021023155528.518fff1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021023155528.518fff1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10904490.20021023195112@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, Joe wrote: > IMO this is the place to advertise ... some people frown on it but there > are MANY people on the list that would probably be interested Maybe we need a third list, ccads, where ads for non-dirt-cheap stuff go. That way, people can "opt in" to get ads for eBay auctions, etc. Thoughts? -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Oct 23 19:51:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: suggestions for where to post adverts?? In-Reply-To: <10904490.20021023195112@subatomix.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021023155528.518fff1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10904490.20021023195112@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <341002892.20021023195251@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, I wrote: > Maybe we need a third list, ccads, where ads for non-dirt-cheap stuff go. > That way, people can "opt in" to get ads for eBay auctions, etc. > > Thoughts? Afterthought: if only it were this easy to partition on-topic and off-topic posts! -- Jeffrey Sharp From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Oct 23 19:57:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Digital archiving [Was Re: [OT] paper on Retro ?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, John Lawson wrote: > As I have mentioned here before, based on (much) research I did while at > MGM on this very subject (35,000 titles on video tape, from 2" Ampex > 4-head thru 1" Sony to 3/4" and 1/2" and also some on 1/2 helical-scan > reel to reel and into beta, digi-beta, DLT, CDROM, DVD....all needing a > uniform archival and modern retrieval scheme..) that binary data written > in many paralell micro-film-scale tracks on well-processed virgin Mylar > movie film - 35 or 70 mm - has a longevity >250 years with minimal storage > care and can be read back with simple optical devices that are easily > made. [Lamp - lens - transport - lens/aperture - photocells] Well, now that's a truly interesting approach to the problem. I'm sure it integrated very well with their existing film archiving system. What was your storage density like? How many MB or KB/ft of 35 or 70mm film? And what about the encoding scheme for the data. Was it a raw dump of the binary version of the data or did you process it through an encoder to add error detection/correction? > And the storage of source code, operating systems, and translation > sortware was included in the scheme. Computer hardware too? One of the projects on my "todo" list of the future here at work is a project to bring online and then rearchive several hundreds of terabytes of archive data written to Sony DTF-1 magtape. Even though it's only a few years old, most of the data is worthless because it's all strung together in such a way that much of it needs to be online for any of it to be useful. The other catch is that some of it is dependent on software packages that are no longer readily available. And even if we could get the binaries, there's no way we could get current licenses to actually run the software. When I try to explain what is probably reasonable and necessary to preserve the most important parts of our data, the accounting folks' eyes start to glaze over. -brian. From n4fs at monmouth.com Wed Oct 23 20:08:01 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] References: Message-ID: <018901c27af8$44782dc0$086dbd18@n4fs> Boy, this brings back memories. In the 60's I worked on all of those systems, and designed parts of them - LOFAR, DIFAR, DICASS, SURTASS, EMSP and a lot of others that I forgot. All ASW - Anti Submarine Warfare - stuff. We were doing DSP before the name was born. I designed digital filters and FFTs for our processors. My first digital filter used serial arithmetic. What a kick to see the result be the same as the computer simulation. Of course back then there was no processing control for these systems and all of the necessary coefficients were hard wired, and, fixed point. Thanks for the memories. Regards - Mike Dr. Mike B. Feher, PhD EE N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Jennings" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:39 PM Subject: RE: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] > Just think, since some of those are subs, (Thresher I know is, I believe > Scorpion is as well), why not name one machine DICASS? For those not in the > know, thats the AN/SSQ-62B Directional Command Activated Sonobuoy System... > And yes, the Navy really *does* call it DICASS... They're death to subs, > usually lead to a direct ping by a dipping sonar, and then the helicopter > crew shouts "weapon away!" and you get torpedoed/depth-charged/all of the > above! > > Will J From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Oct 23 20:52:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: <018901c27af8$44782dc0$086dbd18@n4fs> References: <018901c27af8$44782dc0$086dbd18@n4fs> Message-ID: <1035424445.25212.11.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Will Jennings" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:39 PM > Subject: RE: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] > > > > Just think, since some of those are subs, (Thresher I know is, I believe > > Scorpion is as well), why not name one machine DICASS? For those not in > the > > know, thats the AN/SSQ-62B Directional Command Activated Sonobuoy > System... > > And yes, the Navy really *does* call it DICASS... They're death to subs, > > usually lead to a direct ping by a dipping sonar, and then the helicopter > > crew shouts "weapon away!" and you get torpedoed/depth-charged/all of the > > above! > > As a former submariner, I think I can add a bit to this. Thresher and Scorpion were both US Nuclear submarines, lost in the late 50's or early 60's. Thresher was the first of it's class. The entire class was renamed after the incident, and became the Skate Class. Thresher was lost due to some basic procedural and design flaws. These flaws were corrected immediatly and lead to the Navy's Sub-Safe program. Though know one will really know the exact cause of the loss of the Scorpion, it is believed she was lost due to a torpedo detonating inside of the ship (like the Kursk). The only other major submarine disaster that has occured to a US sub since the second world war was a battery fire (nasty business) on the USS Bonefish in the late 80's. The Bonefish was one of the last of the diesel boats. Three men died in that fire, one of whom was a friend of mine. ASW Stuff: When we played games with the ASW folks down at AUTEC, we almost always had to broach (stick the sail above the water) so that the choppers and P-3 Orions could see us. The sonar buoys almost never picked us up if we were running under normal patrol noise control conditions, even when they were actively pinging at us and not just passively listening. Ob Classic Computer stuff: For some reason, it seemed that they always used us nuclear engineering folks to man the Mk 113 fire control system during battle stations. It was great fun to simulate targeting a fishing fleet on the surface and seeing how many "kills" we could get with one shot of a simulated "special" weapon. ----- Christopher McNabb, Former EM1/SS on a Steely Eyed Killer of the Deep From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Oct 23 21:08:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021023153400.02ce7a30@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > so he found someone who's smoking crack then.... Or he hopes Sellam is, with the "counter-offer" implications.... Doc > >Here's the reply I got: > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:55:54 -0400 > >From: Sorcipit > >To: Sellam Ismail > >Subject: Re: IBM 5100 > > > >I already have an offer of $ 1,000 USD plus shipping on that system. Im of > >course considering all offer on the 5100. > > > >Thx. > > > > > >-- > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Oct 23 21:17:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? In-Reply-To: <20021022014201.18581.50376.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > gil smith asked: > I am curious what your favorite cp/m system might be. As usual, my favorite is the DEC Rainbow. Z-80 for CP/M, 8088 for CP/M 86-80, both available via anonymous update from ftp.update.uu.se, and you can even run (early) MS-DOS, and move data back and forth between OS's, on the same platform. Color and graphics available, with the right monitors and graphics card; MFM (ST-506 format) hard disk possible, again with the right add-on card. Price is usually right (just take it away), *if* you can find one. The unusual floppy format is an issue, but that's true of many CP/M systems. - Mark From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 23 21:22:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: good book on Pascal In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021022204642.478f06cc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Joe wrote: > FWIW I went to library sale today and found a IBM BASIC compiler > package. That's a pretty scarce package. I have it as well. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 23 21:28:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 In-Reply-To: <20021023150551.SION14849.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Happy hunting. The last one I saw on eBay went for $175, no diskettes, no > manuals, just the box. Way bloated price. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 23 21:30:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <200210231819.g9NIJqX31157@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > I had some VMS systems that I named SKITZO, PSYCHO, and PHLEGM. > I was limited to six characters for the name due to DECnet. I > was going for odd names. I was going to name the next one > SMEGMA, but the order was cancelled. I guess it would've been worse if you'd gotten to JISM. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 23 21:35:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Micom 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Well, maybe I just scored an ebay bargan. I just "bought-it-now" for $30 > plus shipping. A quick web search seems to indicate that this is an > early (1975?) 8080 based small business computer. There is an old > classiccmp thread with a few general messages about this box. Anybody > want to talk about it... what software it runs, etc. Did I just throw > $50 away? No, you got a killer deal! I would like to have one of these someday. I can't remember which Canadian it is on the list that touts the virtues of this machine all the time, but I'm sure he'll be proud. Please let us know what it's like when you get it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 23 21:39:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Wired story on VCF 5.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,55949,00.html > > Oh, nice article. I'd be curious to know how the data recovery and > archival project turns out. I'm looking forward to the project. I'll post a report once it's completed ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 23 21:44:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > so he found someone who's smoking crack then.... > > Or he hopes Sellam is, with the "counter-offer" implications.... Sorry, I quit the crack pipe. I only smoke weed these days. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dittman at dittman.net Wed Oct 23 21:47:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Oct 23, 2002 07:31:53 PM Message-ID: <200210240243.g9O2hXP01390@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I had some VMS systems that I named SKITZO, PSYCHO, and PHLEGM. > > I was limited to six characters for the name due to DECnet. I > > was going for odd names. I was going to name the next one > > SMEGMA, but the order was cancelled. > > I guess it would've been worse if you'd gotten to JISM. Part of the plan called for using all six characters. I would have had to spelled it differently. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Wed Oct 23 21:52:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: <1035424445.25212.11.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> from "Christopher McNabb" at Oct 23, 2002 09:54:05 PM Message-ID: <200210240247.g9O2lxw01421@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Though know one will really know the exact cause of the loss of the > Scorpion, it is believed she was lost due to a torpedo detonating inside > of the ship (like the Kursk). I seem to recall reading that the cause of the Scorpion was determined by the Navy but classified for some reason. Of course any time a ship is lost under unknown circumstances there are people that will either come up with their own reason or assume that unknown=undisclosed/classified. Unfortunately I can't remember if the article I read fell into the second category. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From pietstan at rogers.com Wed Oct 23 21:58:00 2002 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) References: <09B2E522-E6B1-11D6-9D70-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3DB761F1.4060009@rogers.com> At work we have one area where they named all their servers after Simpsons characters (homer, lisa (the DB server), bart, etc...) Another area picked Lord of the Rings characters (they had real problems with sauron, but sam and frodo were reliable!!) Other areas just use an acronym of the machine's purpose.... My machines at home are named after Sesame Street characters, since I had young kids when I started collecting. The MicroVax 3400 is bigbird, the NoName alpha I had great frustrations setting up is oscar, my SETI number-cruncher is thecount..... I guess even with a fictitious-character theme, the machine's name sometime reflects their function or "personality" (machinality??) Stan Ron Hudson wrote: > > At my last job, we never named a machine for who used it or what it did, > When we setup the machine for the customs group, we made the mistake of > naming it "customs", then when we moved the transportation group onto it > the customs group put up a big stink :^) > > We had names like: > Pandora, Indigo, Mozart, Electra, Jetset > > From loedman1 at juno.com Wed Oct 23 22:02:00 2002 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:14 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20021023.200136.-82989.1.loedman1@juno.com> Well I have the manuals and all the related stuff but having been ripped off by the inept operators of eBay, I refuse to acknowledge their existence other than to regularly wish a pox on their first born children Rich From: "Glen Goodwin" To: Subject: Re: Kaypro 10 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:02:25 -0400 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Happy hunting. The last one I saw on eBay went for $175, no diskettes, no manuals, just the box. Glen From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Oct 23 22:12:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: <1035424445.25212.11.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> from "Christopher McNabb" at Oct 23, 2002 09:54:05 PM Message-ID: <200210240314.g9O3EUJ16066@shell1.aracnet.com> > The only other major submarine disaster that has occured to a US sub > since the second world war was a battery fire (nasty business) on the > USS Bonefish in the late 80's. The Bonefish was one of the last of the > diesel boats. Three men died in that fire, one of whom was a friend of > mine. The USS Bonefish was the 2nd to the last, the last is tied up outside OMSI in Portland Oregon (OMSI = Oregon Museum of Science and Industry, and yes that is where one or two PDP-11 languages came from). It was scarry standing on the deck of the USS Carr, seeing the Bonefish pop her hatch, and men and smoke billow out (we'd not known why she was surfacing, just that she was coming up next to us). Of course it was even scarrier when we popped half our life rafts and all except two sank, and one of those only half inflated. Zane From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Oct 23 22:14:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm sure most people on the list are familiar with Honeywell's Kitchen Computer. And then there are also plenty of more recent attempts to computerize the kitchen these days: The Electrolux fridge computer, 3COM's aborted Audrey internet appliance, and a whole range of systems from South Korea's LG Electronics. But what of the intervening years? What was going on during the 1970s and 1980s to conquer the kitchen with computer technology; either with software or hardware? I've vague recollections of commercial software being availble for 80s era microcomputers--things like recipe databases software--but I can't come up with any specific examples. Does anyone here know of other classic computer kitchen automation products from bygone decades? -brian. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Oct 23 22:20:01 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] References: <200210240247.g9O2lxw01421@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <017001c27b0c$87c0aad0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] > > Though know one will really know the exact cause of the loss of the > > Scorpion, it is believed she was lost due to a torpedo detonating inside > > of the ship (like the Kursk). > > I seem to recall reading that the cause of the Scorpion was > determined by the Navy but classified for some reason. ISTR a tv special somewhere (Discovery?) early this year that suggested they may have had a 'hot' fish, and that the procedure was to launch it, then make a hard turn away, and that under some circumstances this would lead to the fish looping around and hitting them. Something like that. They ran a reenactment of such a scenario for the special and in that the fish hit the boat, so if they had reacted the way they did in the reenactment, which was done 'by the book' for that situation, then the same thing would likely have happened. Geoff in Oz From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Oct 23 22:41:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: <200210240247.g9O2lxw01421@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: There's been some recent material declassified and some more research done. I recently read a book about various sub disasters, both US and Soviet. The widely accepted belief is that a torpedo was "running hot". If I remember correctly the details, when a torpedo is running hot, it means the primary battery is activated (something about a seal has to be punctured, which allows the battery to activate?) and the weapon is armed. In this event, if the sub makes a hard turn to starboard, an inertial interlock can be activated that will disarm the weapon. The Scorpion is believed to have made a hard turn to starboard, engaging the interlock, but the torpedo "cooked off" anyway. Later interviews with the torpedo and battery manufacturers revealed that several defective batteries had been shipped, and serial number lots account for one of these being on the Scorpion. The SOSUS bouy tapes that were later reviewed seem to indicate that the acoustical signature was not a detonation type signature, but two slower explosions, as when explosives are burned (as the overheated battery would have done, after catching fire). The first explosion was the torpedo explosives burning, and the second explosion most likely a detonation caused by the ensuing fire. Of course, the only people that know for absolute sure died. The book might have been "Blind Mans Buff". I have about a 90% hit rate of getting read books into my spreadsheet. I may have my recollection details wrong, but this is the basic theory. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Dittman Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 22:48 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] > Though know one will really know the exact cause of the loss of the > Scorpion, it is believed she was lost due to a torpedo detonating inside > of the ship (like the Kursk). I seem to recall reading that the cause of the Scorpion was determined by the Navy but classified for some reason. Of course any time a ship is lost under unknown circumstances there are people that will either come up with their own reason or assume that unknown=undisclosed/classified. Unfortunately I can't remember if the article I read fell into the second category. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Wed Oct 23 22:44:01 2002 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? Message-ID: I remember an magazine add for a TRS-80 (Model 1) in the mid-70's with it in a kitchen, 'storing recipies'. Wish I had kept it. (Btw, a friend of mine scored an 'audry', and as a browser, it really rocks.) Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:16 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? > > > I'm sure most people on the list are familiar with Honeywell's Kitchen > Computer. And then there are also plenty of more recent attempts to > computerize the kitchen these days: The Electrolux fridge computer, > 3COM's aborted Audrey internet appliance, and a whole range of systems > from South Korea's LG Electronics. > > But what of the intervening years? What was going on during the 1970s > and 1980s to conquer the kitchen with computer technology; either with > software or hardware? I've vague recollections of commercial software > being availble for 80s era microcomputers--things like recipe > databases > software--but I can't come up with any specific examples. > > Does anyone here know of other classic computer kitchen automation > products from bygone decades? > > -brian. > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021023/19ea88f9/attachment.html From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Oct 23 22:59:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Even stranger classic software Message-ID: In the late 70s I remember seeing a tiny little ad in the back sections of Byte for a program for Passover. You plopped your Apple ][ down on the table next to the Charoses and roast lamb and wine - and the damn thing stepped you thru the Seder, songs and all. "Daddy - why on this night do we have our computer on the dining room table, instead of the desk? Daddy - why on this night are all our relatives and guests dying from hunger because you can't get a disk to read?" ;} It was a stunning concept - and right then I began to formulate the cynical observation that *some* people have way too much time on their minds... Cheers John From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Wed Oct 23 23:17:01 2002 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (VaxCat) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: FREE: Sun equipment in Des Moines, Iowa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greetings, As I've long since left the hobby of collecting classic computers to the folks here, who are much more consistent about the whole thing, it is time to send some equipment to a new home. A couple years ago, I retrieved some Sun equipment from Tom Uban in Indiana. Since I told him that I would not ebay or sell the equipment, I am looking for a good home for it and will give it free to someone who wants to come to Des Moines, Iowa to retrieve it. I do want it to go to a serious collector and would be very upset to see it on ebay or parted out for sale. The following is available: Sun 3/60 w/ 16 megs ram - ready to netboot - working Sun 3/110 w/ 16 megs ram - ready to boot off attached 200 meg scsi disk with Sunos 4.1.x 5 Sun 3/110 oem boards in 19 inch rack VME chassis 2 or 3 sets of keyboards, mice and optical mousepads Lots of old style ethernet transceivers 2 19" Sun monochrome monitors - one tested good with 3/60 1 21" Apollo color monitor - converted to be compatible with 3/110 - works 2 boxes of Sun manuals Also free to a good home, I have an ISC 8001 terminal. This is the 19" color terminal for which unix termcap entries actually exist for some unknown reason. It does power up, came from Microware and displays their header information on boot and sends out data through it's serial port. It doesn't seem to receive data however so I suspect it needs a replacement 1488 or 1489 (can't remember which is the receiver). In either case, the price is right for something that is fairly rare. =-) I may have some other fun goodies about like a couple Apple laser printers in unknown condition and a weird old Vector S-100 business sytem with an 8" winchester hard disk but no software. While I wouldn't mind selling some of this other stuff, it's too heavy to ship so I'm just looking to lighten the basement ballast. Thanks, Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa > From marvin at rain.org Wed Oct 23 23:57:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: VCF Stuff For Sale Message-ID: <3DB77E1D.6B179E24@rain.org> In the interest of getting rid of stuff, the list below is some of the stuff I will be bringing to VCF. I'll be adding to it as the stuff gets loaded into the van. The pricing is OBO but I probably won't be very flexible on just one item :). At this point, I have zero interest in shipping anything, so this is info for those of you who will be attending. Misc. For Sale 1. $5.00 Apollo Keyboard/Mouse 2. $10.00 Arnet Boards, cables, etc. No Software Untested 3. $25.00 Atari 850 Interface w/ Power Supply 4. $25.00 Commodore Monitor 1701 5. $5.00 Commodore 1541 disk drives 6. $4.00 Commodore C-64 Power Supplies 7. $5.00 HP Laserjet II 1 MB Memory Board 8. $3.00 Kensington System Saver - Apple II 9. $3.00 Kensington System Saver - Mac 10. $10.00 Keyword 8000 8" drives & power supply 11. $1.00 Misc. Box - Anything in box for $1.00 ea. 12. $10.00 Multibus Extender Card 13. $20.00 One Box Punch Cards, Globe #39367 14. $10.00 Printer Ribbon Re-Inker 15. $20.00 Vector Graphic Hardware Manuals 16. $20.00 Vector/Godabout S-100 motherboard 17. $5.00 Versatec Interface Board? Books/Magazines for Sale 1. $2.00 Apple II User's Guide, PB 2. $2.00 RCA SK Replacement Catalog, PB 3. $4.00 Information Processing w/ Basic and Telecourse Guide, Bohl, PB 4. $2.00 1985/86 NTE Technical Guide and Cross Reference, PB 5. $2.00 Open Windows V3 for SunOS 4.1.x DeskSet Reference Guide, Sunsoft, PB 6. $4.00 Odyssey, Sculley, HB 7. $2.00 The Personal Computer Book, McWilliams, PB 8. $2.00 Programmmer's Guide to the IBM PC, Norton, PB 9. $2.00 Programmer's Guide to the NeWs Toolkit code Generator, Sunsoft, PB 10. $2.00 Solaris 2.0 System Configuration and Installation Guide, Sunsoft, PB 11. $4.00 High Level Cobol Programming , Weinberg,Kauffman,Wright,Goetz, HB Software for Sale 1. $5.00 MAC Tools, Central Point Software, shrinkwrapped eval.copy 2. $7.00 Microsoft Windows 3.1 (Logitech) 5 1/4 HD diskettes 3. $25.00 One Lot OS/2 Software 4. $5.00 QB/Pro Vol 7 - QB Optimizer, Microhelp 5. $2.00 ea Sun CDs 6. $30.00 Xenix w/AST 4-port serial card, etc. Computers/Terminals For Sale 1. $10.00 ADM 5 terminal, lights up but NT 2. $10.00 Atari 400 3. $15.00 Atari 800 4. $10.00 DEC VT-220 terminal 5. $25.00 Commodore 64 w/1701 Monitor, 1741 Disk Drive, Cassette Drive, Manuals, etc. 6. $10.00 Epson Equity LT Laptop w/manuals, disks, power supply, carrying case, NW 7. $25.00 Epson HX-20 modified w/ bar code scanner 8. $35.00 HP 150 Touchscreen Computer 9. $20.00 IBM convertable computers 10. $5.00 Mac SE, 2FD, Top FD w/insertion problem, no kb/mouse 11. $20.00 Mac SE30, FD/HD, ADB keyboard/mouse, original disks, cloth carrying case 12. $15.00 Mac 512K 13. $15.00 Mac Classic w/ keyboard/mouse 14. $7.00 Sharp PC-4501 Laptop w/ manual, carrying case NW 15. $35.00 Soroc IQ120 16. $5.00 Tandy Coco 1 17. $5.00 Tandy Coco 2 18. $35.00 Tandy/Radio Shack Model 100 19. $10.00 Zenith Z-170 w/ User Manual 20. $10.00 Zenith Z-170 w/ User Manual 21. $25.00 Zenith ZTX-11 Terminal, Unopened in Original Box NW - Not Working NT - Not Tested Game Computers For Sale 1. $15.00 Atari 5100, power supply, game/ps connection box 2. $5.00 Magnavox Odyssey II, power supply, one game cartridge 3. $5.00 Mattel Aquarius (no box) From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Oct 24 00:25:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (classiccmp@crash.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? Message-ID: <200210240526.g9O5Q0g30882@io.crash.com> > I remember an magazine add for a TRS-80 (Model 1) in the mid-70's > with it in a kitchen, 'storing recipies'. Wish I had kept it. I've been reading Stan Veit's History of the Personal Computer lately. He's got a reprint of the photo from a TRS-80 Model I ad where a guy is using it on the kitchen table, copying some thing down on a pad and looking vaguely crazed with a cup of coffee. A woman stands in the background behind the kitchen counter, findling a bowl of snacks or fruit and gazing fondly at the gent in the foreground - as if proud the her man is finally able to purchase an use a microcomputer. Page 171. --Steve. From curt at atari-history.com Thu Oct 24 00:38:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Wired story on VCF 5.0 References: Message-ID: <036c01c27b1f$94c66db0$01000001@cvendel> Sellam, Excellent coverage and thats some great work you are doing and an important service to provide. It is amazing to think of how many repositories of data are in existence and the original hardware to read those pieces of media may no longer exist to access them. Just think of what may be contained in places such as Iron Mountain and that someday something will be opened and examined and no one will be able to read the tapes or disks or what have you because the needed TU58, Shugart 8", Punch Card Reader and any other form of data access device just isn't around in the common market for people to access to utilitize. Plus you got a nice plug in for VCF 5.0 which sure doesn't hurt!!! :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 7:29 PM Subject: Wired story on VCF 5.0 > > http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,55949,00.html > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 24 01:05:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <200210240243.g9O2hXP01390@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > I had some VMS systems that I named SKITZO, PSYCHO, and PHLEGM. > > > I was limited to six characters for the name due to DECnet. I > > > was going for odd names. I was going to name the next one > > > SMEGMA, but the order was cancelled. > > > > I guess it would've been worse if you'd gotten to JISM. > > Part of the plan called for using all six characters. I would > have had to spelled it differently. Ok, SPOOGE. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 24 01:10:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > But what of the intervening years? What was going on during the 1970s > and 1980s to conquer the kitchen with computer technology; either with > software or hardware? I've vague recollections of commercial software > being availble for 80s era microcomputers--things like recipe databases > software--but I can't come up with any specific examples. I have some really cool software for my Apple ][ called The Master Bartender. It has recipes for dozens (hundreds?) of cocktails. I don't know why I kept it when I was only about 16 when I got it, other than I liked to collect whatever software came my way. Now that I'm a booze hound I should take it out and see if there's anything good in there :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 24 01:13:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Even stranger classic software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, John Lawson wrote: > You plopped your Apple ][ down on the table next to the Charoses and > roast lamb and wine - and the damn thing stepped you thru the Seder, > songs and all. This has got to be the coolest thing I have ever heard of ;) > "Daddy - why on this night do we have our computer on the dining room > table, instead of the desk? Daddy - why on this night are all our > relatives and guests dying from hunger because you can't get a disk to > read?" ;} Now THAT is funny :) > It was a stunning concept - and right then I began to formulate the > cynical observation that *some* people have way too much time on their > minds... I wonder if anyone ever wrote a program on the Apple that wailed out the Muslim call to prayer? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 24 01:23:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? In-Reply-To: <200210240526.g9O5Q0g30882@io.crash.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 classiccmp@crash.com wrote: > I've been reading Stan Veit's History of the Personal Computer lately. > He's got a reprint of the photo from a TRS-80 Model I ad where a guy is > using it on the kitchen table, copying some thing down on a pad and > looking vaguely crazed with a cup of coffee. A woman stands in the > background behind the kitchen counter, findling a bowl of snacks or > fruit and gazing fondly at the gent in the foreground - as if proud the > her man is finally able to purchase an use a microcomputer. Page 171. I can't remember if it was that ad or an Apple ][ ad (I think it was the Apple ][ ad) that caused a storm of Feminist backlash (because it depicted the woman working in the kitchen while the manly man husband computed away) and so in the next ad they made it more palatable to the female gendered. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From altertech at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Oct 24 01:24:01 2002 From: altertech at blueyonder.co.uk (Rob Hamadi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Even stranger classic software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021024072100.0277b140@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk> At 07:14 AM 10/24/02, Sellam wrote: >I wonder if anyone ever wrote a program on the Apple that wailed out the >Muslim call to prayer? A friend of mine once worked in a factory in the UK where they made clocks in the shape of minarets that not only did that 5 times a day but also had an electro-magnetic compass on top which would light up a green LED showing the direction of Mecca. As there were only 8 LEDs I guess the accuracy was to within 45 degrees. Rob From dittman at dittman.net Thu Oct 24 01:39:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Oct 23, 2002 11:06:55 PM Message-ID: <200210240635.g9O6ZI002434@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > I had some VMS systems that I named SKITZO, PSYCHO, and PHLEGM. > > > > I was limited to six characters for the name due to DECnet. I > > > > was going for odd names. I was going to name the next one > > > > SMEGMA, but the order was cancelled. > > > > > > I guess it would've been worse if you'd gotten to JISM. > > > > Part of the plan called for using all six characters. I would > > have had to spelled it differently. > > Ok, SPOOGE. Well, that's using a different word. What's a 6-letter phonetic spelling for JISM? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Oct 24 01:45:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 10/24/02 1:24 AM, Sellam Ismail at foo@siconic.com wrote: > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 classiccmp@crash.com wrote: > >> I've been reading Stan Veit's History of the Personal Computer lately. >> He's got a reprint of the photo from a TRS-80 Model I ad where a guy is >> using it on the kitchen table, copying some thing down on a pad and >> looking vaguely crazed with a cup of coffee. A woman stands in the >> background behind the kitchen counter, findling a bowl of snacks or >> fruit and gazing fondly at the gent in the foreground - as if proud the >> her man is finally able to purchase an use a microcomputer. Page 171. > > I can't remember if it was that ad or an Apple ][ ad (I think it was the > Apple ][ ad) that caused a storm of Feminist backlash (because it depicted > the woman working in the kitchen while the manly man husband computed > away) and so in the next ad they made it more palatable to the female > gendered. The women who found that offensive should actually be honored. There are thousands of good programmers in the world, but how many good cooks do we have left? -- Owen Robertson From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Oct 24 01:52:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <200210240635.g9O6ZI002434@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > I had some VMS systems that I named SKITZO, PSYCHO, and PHLEGM. > > > > > I was limited to six characters for the name due to DECnet. I > > > > > was going for odd names. I was going to name the next one > > > > > SMEGMA, but the order was cancelled. > > > > > > > > I guess it would've been worse if you'd gotten to JISM. > > > > > > Part of the plan called for using all six characters. I would > > > have had to spelled it differently. > > > > Ok, SPOOGE. > > Well, that's using a different word. What's a 6-letter phonetic > spelling for JISM? I was trying to avoid to avoid being drawn in, but ... JIZZUM or JIZZIM? Pat -- http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Oct 24 02:30:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Even stranger classic software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I wonder if anyone ever wrote a program on the Apple that wailed out the > Muslim call to prayer? > I have the Omm program somewhere, I'm sure. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Oct 24 02:36:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <200210240635.g9O6ZI002434@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Part of the plan called for using all six characters. I would > > > have had to spelled it differently. > > > > Ok, SPOOGE. > > Well, that's using a different word. What's a 6-letter phonetic > spelling for JISM? SPLAATT Doc From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Oct 24 06:47:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT: Loss of the Scorpion, was Re: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] References: <200210240247.g9O2lxw01421@narnia.int.dittman.net> <017001c27b0c$87c0aad0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: <3DB7DECA.3030406@tiac.net> This is very close to the story I heard while in the service. Apparently the torpedos have a safety mechanisim that deactivates the warhead should it make a 180 degree turn, to prevent a 'wild' torpedo from sinking the sub that launched it. The story I heard said that they had a 'hot run' of a torpedo in the tube, and were unable to eject it. So the sub made a 180 degree turn to return to base and rather than deactivate the warhead, it detonated. I gotta say, it sure takes guts to serve on those boats. Geoff Roberts wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Eric Dittman" >To: >Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 12:17 PM >Subject: Re: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] > > >>>Though know one will really know the exact cause of the loss of the >>>Scorpion, it is believed she was lost due to a torpedo detonating inside >>>of the ship (like the Kursk). >>> >>I seem to recall reading that the cause of the Scorpion was >>determined by the Navy but classified for some reason. >> > >ISTR a tv special somewhere (Discovery?) early this year that suggested they >may have had a 'hot' fish, and that the procedure was to launch it, then >make a hard turn away, and that under some circumstances this would lead to >the fish looping around and hitting them. Something like that. They ran a >reenactment of such a scenario for the special and in that the fish hit the >boat, so if they had reacted the way they did in the reenactment, which was >done 'by the book' for that situation, then the same thing would likely have >happened. > >Geoff in Oz > > From chris at blackwidowguitars.com Thu Oct 24 06:57:00 2002 From: chris at blackwidowguitars.com (Chris Lamrock) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: More Heathkit H8 Questions Message-ID: <00c601c27b56$0eed45b0$640aa8c0@chrislamrock> Well I've been messing with my H8 some... I did get a program to work that I entered into the keypad on the front. Now I would like to take the next step and see if some of the other stuff works... This machine has the H8-5 serial/ tape combo - I have the cable that connects the funny Molex connector to the terminal & have a nice terminal hooked to it. I also have in there what I believe to be the floppy controller - but I have no cables or drives. I am assuming that this machine must be "told" via the front panel to boot from a tape or disk before I ever get anything on the terminal? Is this correct? If this is true - what do I need to get this thing up and running? Will this thing boot from tape? Is that the easiest option for starters? I am not having much luck locating information or parts online for this beast... Also I'm wondering if the floppy drives are just a standard old 360k drive & some sort of standard cabling that I might be able to round up? If so how hard will it be to find bootable media? Lots of questions! Thanks in advance Chris Lamrock From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Oct 24 08:13:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Radstone Tech? Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021024080702.03c282b0@pc> I'm trying to help a guy on the electron microscope mailing list. He has a LEO 360FE SEM, with a computer attached built by Radstone Technology, better known for making military and space applications, he says. It saves images on a Panasonic LF-7300 WORM drive, but because he doesn't know the embedded OS, we can't guess at the filesystem on the MO. Any ideas? - John From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Oct 24 08:29:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Tandy XENIX Disks Message-ID: Reminds me of a couple of AT&T 6300's that I used in an exhibit at the Field Museum of Natural History here in Chicago. The keyboards were mounded under 1/2 inch particle board, with just the keypads showing (to run the program). We needed to add an extra instructional label beside the keypad, so the exhibit preparators screened the labels and, to protect them, mounted thin plexiglas over them. To mount the plexi, they drilled 4 holes all the way through the particle board -- and the keyboards that were underneath. Amazingly, neither of the keyboards was destroyed. Bob -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 4:21 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Tandy XENIX Disks There is one other nasty fault I've seen (at least on the M3, and I suspect the M4 is identical). There's a plastic post moulded into the bottom case of the machine under the keyboard. If something heavy is dropped onto the keyboard, it will cause this post to hit the PCB with enough force to break tracks. While you have the keyboard apart, examine this area of the PCB very carefully. > had that problems with M3 and M4 KB's -tony From dittman at dittman.net Thu Oct 24 08:41:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Oct 24, 2002 02:37:27 AM Message-ID: <200210241336.g9ODajU03066@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > Part of the plan called for using all six characters. I would > > > > have had to spelled it differently. > > > > > > Ok, SPOOGE. > > > > Well, that's using a different word. What's a 6-letter phonetic > > spelling for JISM? > > SPLAATT One of those letters has to go. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Thu Oct 24 08:43:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Oct 24, 2002 01:55:11 AM Message-ID: <200210241338.g9ODcdd03074@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > > > I had some VMS systems that I named SKITZO, PSYCHO, and PHLEGM. > > > > > > I was limited to six characters for the name due to DECnet. I > > > > > > was going for odd names. I was going to name the next one > > > > > > SMEGMA, but the order was cancelled. > > > > > > > > > > I guess it would've been worse if you'd gotten to JISM. > > > > > > > > Part of the plan called for using all six characters. I would > > > > have had to spelled it differently. > > > > > > Ok, SPOOGE. > > > > Well, that's using a different word. What's a 6-letter phonetic > > spelling for JISM? > > I was trying to avoid to avoid being drawn in, but ... > > JIZZUM or JIZZIM? That works. What would be better, though, would be a phonetic spelling that wasn't so obvious. On PHLEGM I had a batch queue named PHU. Nobody caught that it was the PHU QUEUE. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 24 09:09:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT: Loss of the Scorpion, was Re: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: <3DB7DECA.3030406@tiac.net> References: <200210240247.g9O2lxw01421@narnia.int.dittman.net> <017001c27b0c$87c0aad0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021024100936.4557dad2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:51 AM 10/24/02 -0400, Bob wrote: >This is very close to the story I heard while in the service. > >Apparently the torpedos have a safety mechanisim that deactivates the >warhead should it make a 180 degree turn, to prevent a 'wild' torpedo >from sinking the sub that launched it. > >The story I heard said that they had a 'hot run' of a torpedo in the >tube, and were unable to eject it. So the sub made a 180 degree turn to >return to base and rather than deactivate the warhead, it detonated. I think you misunderstand. You're right about the torpedoes having a safety mechanism that disarms the torpedo in the event of a 180 degree turn to prevent "wild" torpedo hits. However in the event of a hot run (torpedo starting inside the sub) the torpedo would become armed after a certain amount of time. Therefore the sub has to make a 180 degree turn in an effort to disarm the warhead before it can arm (exactly the same procedure as disarming a "wild" torpedo but now you have to turn the entire sub). However the sub has to do it before the torpedo becomes armed and it's not easy to make 180 degree turn that quick in something as large as a sub. Apparently the Scorpion didn't make it in time. Another possible scenerio is that some of the batteries in one of the torpedoes shorted out and burst into flames. That started a chain reaction among the other batteries and at some point the fire became hot enough to cook off (detonate) one or more of the torpedo warheads. The batteries used in some of the Scorpion's torpedos came from a KNOWN bad lot but the Navy had such a problem getting enough batteries that they decided to use them anyway. Somewhere I have a book on the subject including interviews with several people that witnessed a torpedo battery fire in a land based repair depot. Even in a relatively open area with unarmed torpedoes, fire extinguishers and modern fire fighting equipment the damage was extensive. In a confined area with numerous armed topedoes the results would be disasterous. > >I gotta say, it sure takes guts to serve on those boats. You aren't kidding. And the early boats were even worse! Conditions in them could only be called in-human. I just finished reading 'Silent Victory, the US Submarine War Against Japan' (two volumes) by Clay Blair, Jr. I HIGHLY recommend it to anyone interested in submarine warfare or the war in the Pacific. Joe From owad at applefritter.com Thu Oct 24 09:40:01 2002 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Couple of mystery boards (MDS, Ricoh, ...) Message-ID: <20021024144037.24627@mail.lafayette.edu> I've taken photographs of a couple of interesting looking but unknown boards I've been setting aside and am curious if anyone can identify them. The following boards are from 1975 and are all labeled "MDS-100x", where 'x' is between 1 and 8. My Google searching was unable to find anything that looked relevant. has a couple of 6821's is just about all TTL The second two of these cards have a connector that looks like Nubus but is missing the middle row of pins. Are these for a laser printer? has a 68000 processor and RAM. is labeled Ricoh Engine Driver Another one that looked interesting. I have no idea what this is from. Thanks. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Oct 24 09:42:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 6000 Keyboard Message-ID: Well, just days after my post regarding XENIX for the Tandy 6000, its keyboard seems to have gotten some ideas from Jeff's post on TRS-80 keyboard problems. The 'D' key has taken sick. Every other key on the board works flawlessly. But simply in the course of normal use, the 'D' key has stopped working. I've "fixed" it to the best of my ability, but the problem obviously goes beyond that. Now, that one key in itself wouldn't be so bad, except that in order to get to the login prompt in XENIX, you have to type CTRL-D. Which puts my 6000 in the very large paperweight category at the moment. So my question is - Does anyone have a spare 6000 keyboard lying around, or know where I might go about looking for one? I have enough systems lying around waiting for parts to complete them, and I really don't want this one to join them. Thanks. -- Owen Robertson From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Oct 24 10:03:01 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10/23/02, Sellam Ismail scribbled: > I have some really cool software for my Apple ][ called The Master > Bartender. It has recipes for dozens (hundreds?) of cocktails. I don't > know why I kept it when I was only about 16 when I got it, other than I > liked to collect whatever software came my way. > > Now that I'm a booze hound I should take it out and see if there's > anything good in there :) > I wonder, does it allow you to add drink recipies? There are many new 'pop' (or you can say 'yuppie') drink mixes around now... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From at258 at osfn.org Thu Oct 24 11:03:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT: Loss of the Scorpion, was Re: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021024100936.4557dad2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: I recommend Gray's The Underwater War and the U-boat War. They cover the British and German submarine fleets of WW I. On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Joe wrote: > At 07:51 AM 10/24/02 -0400, Bob wrote: > >This is very close to the story I heard while in the service. > > > >Apparently the torpedos have a safety mechanisim that deactivates the > >warhead should it make a 180 degree turn, to prevent a 'wild' torpedo > >from sinking the sub that launched it. > > > >The story I heard said that they had a 'hot run' of a torpedo in the > >tube, and were unable to eject it. So the sub made a 180 degree turn to > >return to base and rather than deactivate the warhead, it detonated. > > > I think you misunderstand. You're right about the torpedoes having a safety mechanism that disarms the torpedo in the event of a 180 degree turn to prevent "wild" torpedo hits. However in the event of a hot run (torpedo starting inside the sub) the torpedo would become armed after a certain amount of time. Therefore the sub has to make a 180 degree turn in an effort to disarm the warhead before it can arm (exactly the same procedure as disarming a "wild" torpedo but now you have to turn the entire sub). However the sub has to do it before the torpedo becomes armed and it's not easy to make 180 degree turn that quick in something as large as a sub. Apparently the Scorpion didn't make it in time. > > Another possible scenerio is that some of the batteries in one of the torpedoes shorted out and burst into flames. That started a chain reaction among the other batteries and at some point the fire became hot enough to cook off (detonate) one or more of the torpedo warheads. The batteries used in some of the Scorpion's torpedos came from a KNOWN bad lot but the Navy had such a problem getting enough batteries that they decided to use them anyway. Somewhere I have a book on the subject including interviews with several people that witnessed a torpedo battery fire in a land based repair depot. Even in a relatively open area with unarmed torpedoes, fire extinguishers and modern fire fighting equipment the damage was extensive. In a confined area with numerous armed topedoes the results would be disasterous. > > > > >I gotta say, it sure takes guts to serve on those boats. > > You aren't kidding. And the early boats were even worse! Conditions in them could only be called in-human. I just finished reading 'Silent Victory, the US Submarine War Against Japan' (two volumes) by Clay Blair, Jr. I HIGHLY recommend it to anyone interested in submarine warfare or the war in the Pacific. > > Joe > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 24 12:02:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Even stranger classic software In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021024072100.0277b140@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Rob Hamadi wrote: > A friend of mine once worked in a factory in the UK where they made > clocks in the shape of minarets that not only did that 5 times a day but > also had an electro-magnetic compass on top which would light up a green > LED showing the direction of Mecca. As there were only 8 LEDs I guess > the accuracy was to within 45 degrees. I've got one of those! Well, minus the digital compass. I was visiting a very good friend a few years back and his dad had bought one, probably because he thought it was as funny as I did. We got some serious chuckles out of it. My friend insisted I take it with me. My parents got a kick out of it too, so I left it at their house. I haven't heard it in a while (it gets so annoying you just have to leave the batteries out because it has no on/off switch), but everytime I hear it belt out the call to prayers I have to bust out laughing. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 24 12:06:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <200210240635.g9O6ZI002434@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > I had some VMS systems that I named SKITZO, PSYCHO, and PHLEGM. > > > > > I was limited to six characters for the name due to DECnet. I > > > > > was going for odd names. I was going to name the next one > > > > > SMEGMA, but the order was cancelled. > > > > > > > > I guess it would've been worse if you'd gotten to JISM. > > > > > > Part of the plan called for using all six characters. I would > > > have had to spelled it differently. > > > > Ok, SPOOGE. > > Well, that's using a different word. What's a 6-letter phonetic > spelling for JISM? JISM = SPOOGE (at least in the school yards where I grew up ;) But if you want to stick with jism, go with JIZZIM. Maybe even JIZZUM. Also, I would just like to note this new low point in the history of the Classic Computers Mailing List. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From patrick at evocative.com Thu Oct 24 12:08:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: ET-3400 Revision Questions Message-ID: Guys, I just got an ET-3400 that was partially built. On average, the construction seems to be fairly good. I haven't yet plugged the rascal in, I'm still doing a visual checkout and comparison to instructions and schematics, and trying to find the point or points at which the kit has remaining steps. Mechanically it seems to be in great shape: the labels for the case haven't been applied, and the case is completely unscratched. Soldering is generally good, but flux hasn't been removed so it looks untidy. The keys still have the thin plastic film over their caps, and it's obvious that this unit has had little if any use. Perhaps the builder had a problem and wasn't able to diagnose it, I don't know. I have a manual with schematics, but it's apparent from inspection that the manual refers to an older revision (part numbers different, parts changed or absent, etc.). The main board is part number 85-2712 (-2). Unfortunately, I don't have the x-ray views of the board, and the component side is completely covered with a white plastic mask that carries various labels and graphics, so traces on that side are all but invisible. Before I break out the probe, I've got a couple of questions, for those who may know: The 6800 in the schematic is a 6802 on the live unit, and the 6875 in the schematic is absent altogether, and there's no trace (no pun intended) of a location for it. This seems to make sense; the '02 has its clock generator on board, correct? Where is its 128 bytes of RAM mapped? There are also two 2114's on this board, rather than two 2112's and two empty sockets for additional 2112's. There's a jumper soldered between U4 (a 74126) pin 5 and the nearest resistor (part of the 8-LED assembly). Not on the schematic, but it seems like it quite possibly could be a pull up or down (pin 5 is an input to a tri-state buffer, pin 6 is the output to the DBE signal on the MPU, at least, according to the schematic I _have_). Again, I can't tell easily in this area of the board because the component-side traces are covered with the white plastic mask. The ROM is 444-364, so I suspect the source listing in the manual I have (for ROM part number 444-17) won't nearly cut it and routines have probably moved. Does anyone have a listing of this ROM they'd be willing to share? IC1 is listed as a 'LS241 on the schematics I have, but there's a 'LS240 in the socket. I can't visually verify that the change is appropriate, or just a bad substitution by the builder, because the component-side traces are covered by that white mask. It seems plausible that Heath would, for whatever reason, decide to invert the sense of the lines buffering the eight binary display LEDs (not the 7-seg displays on the right, the eight FLV117s on the left), and this would be an appropriate substitution. Of course I can quickly find out with a logic probe or some of Heathkit's infamous "short wires", but I was just wondering if anybody knew for sure? Does anyone have a GIF or JPG (or other format) of the x-ray of the main board (even a newer or older revision), or a copy of the "Illustration Booklet" that they'd be willing to share? For that matter, does anyone have a copy of the manual for this (or near) board revision? The manual I have is from Raymond Sarrio, and it was listed on his site as the Illustration Book, but it turned out to the Manual (I'm going to contact him as well). I'm happy to buy/trade... Thanks! --Patrick From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 24 12:08:54 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Even stranger classic software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > I wonder if anyone ever wrote a program on the Apple that wailed out the > > Muslim call to prayer? > > > > I have the Omm program somewhere, I'm sure. What's that? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 24 12:18:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > On 10/23/02, Sellam Ismail scribbled: > > > I have some really cool software for my Apple ][ called The Master > > Bartender. It has recipes for dozens (hundreds?) of cocktails. I don't > > know why I kept it when I was only about 16 when I got it, other than I > > liked to collect whatever software came my way. > > > > Now that I'm a booze hound I should take it out and see if there's > > anything good in there :) > > I wonder, does it allow you to add drink recipies? There are many > new 'pop' (or you can say 'yuppie') drink mixes around now... I can't remember. And I can't find it right now. I'll look after VCF is over. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Oct 24 12:23:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Even stranger classic software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a prayer clock that was an early product of one of the companies I worked for. You entered your latitude and longitude and it displayed the heading to Mecca. There were a number of pre-set alarms for each prayer time. It had a removable floating needle compass in the top that could be removed. They sold 10,000 or so of these I think. Pretty sophisticated, at the time. I think it has an 8031 processor in it, although I've never taken it apart. Has an LCD display, and Arabic writing on it (instructions, I guess). I informally collect clocks. If I see really neat or odd ones, I'll aquire it. I've also built a number of clocks, all microprocessor based, but using varying display technologies. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 13:04 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Even stranger classic software On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Rob Hamadi wrote: > A friend of mine once worked in a factory in the UK where they made > clocks in the shape of minarets that not only did that 5 times a day but > also had an electro-magnetic compass on top which would light up a green > LED showing the direction of Mecca. As there were only 8 LEDs I guess > the accuracy was to within 45 degrees. I've got one of those! Well, minus the digital compass. I was visiting a very good friend a few years back and his dad had bought one, probably because he thought it was as funny as I did. We got some serious chuckles out of it. My friend insisted I take it with me. My parents got a kick out of it too, so I left it at their house. I haven't heard it in a while (it gets so annoying you just have to leave the batteries out because it has no on/off switch), but everytime I hear it belt out the call to prayers I have to bust out laughing. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dittman at dittman.net Thu Oct 24 12:40:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Oct 24, 2002 10:07:24 AM Message-ID: <200210241736.g9OHa7R03559@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > > > I had some VMS systems that I named SKITZO, PSYCHO, and PHLEGM. > > > > > > I was limited to six characters for the name due to DECnet. I > > > > > > was going for odd names. I was going to name the next one > > > > > > SMEGMA, but the order was cancelled. > > > > > > > > > > I guess it would've been worse if you'd gotten to JISM. > > > > > > > > Part of the plan called for using all six characters. I would > > > > have had to spelled it differently. > > > > > > Ok, SPOOGE. > > > > Well, that's using a different word. What's a 6-letter phonetic > > spelling for JISM? > > JISM = SPOOGE (at least in the school yards where I grew up ;) Yes, but that's another name that can be used. > But if you want to stick with jism, go with JIZZIM. Maybe even JIZZUM. > > Also, I would just like to note this new low point in the history of the > Classic Computers Mailing List. I'm sure the record will be broken at a later time. :-) -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu Oct 24 12:44:01 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Even stranger classic software Message-ID: <20021024174744.DBMC23449.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: John Lawson > In the late 70s I remember seeing a tiny little ad in the back sections > of Byte for a program for Passover. > > You plopped your Apple ][ down on the table next to the Charoses and > roast lamb and wine - and the damn thing stepped you thru the Seder, > songs and all. ARRGH! It is NOT kosher to have an electrical appliance on the Seder table! Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Oct 24 12:47:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Radstone Tech? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021024080702.03c282b0@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, John Foust wrote: > I'm trying to help a guy on the electron microscope mailing list. > He has a LEO 360FE SEM, with a computer attached built by Radstone > Technology, better known for making military and space applications, > he says. It saves images on a Panasonic LF-7300 WORM drive, > but because he doesn't know the embedded OS, we can't guess at > the filesystem on the MO. Any ideas? One suggestion would be to find out empirically. Assuming the LF-7300 is SCSI, and the guy from the mailing list has a slight bit of computer savvy, he could trying connecting the drive to a Linux system with SCSI. Linux's fdisk program recognizes a lot of different partition types; it also supports a very large number of filesystem formats. I'd use fdisk to attempt to determine the fs type from the partition table. From there I'd be inclined to try mounting the filesystem. As a paranoid precaution, use a non-critical disk for the investigation. -brian. From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 24 12:49:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <200210241736.g9OHa7R03559@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > > > I had some VMS systems that I named SKITZO, PSYCHO, and PHLEGM. > > > > > > > I was limited to six characters for the name due to DECnet. I > > > > > > > was going for odd names. I was going to name the next one > > > > > > > SMEGMA, but the order was cancelled. > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess it would've been worse if you'd gotten to JISM. > > > > > > > > > > Part of the plan called for using all six characters. I would > > > > > have had to spelled it differently. > > > > > > > > Ok, SPOOGE. > > > > > > Well, that's using a different word. What's a 6-letter phonetic > > > spelling for JISM? > > > > JISM = SPOOGE (at least in the school yards where I grew up ;) > > Yes, but that's another name that can be used. > > > But if you want to stick with jism, go with JIZZIM. Maybe even JIZZUM. > > > > Also, I would just like to note this new low point in the history of the > > Classic Computers Mailing List. > > I'm sure the record will be broken at a later time. :-) I strive to be the one to do it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu Oct 24 12:53:01 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Even stranger classic software Message-ID: <20021024175657.DJSK23449.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Sellam Ismail > > I have the Omm program somewhere, I'm sure. > > What's that? Sellam, you've never encountered (or been a part of) a bunch of chanting hippies? You know, "Aum?" Too young, I guess ;>) Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 24 13:22:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT: Loss of the Scorpion, was Re: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] Message-ID: I also recommend going to the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry, and going through the U-boat... My god, what a horrid place to spend any length of time! And I don't want to think about being submerged... I also would recommend going to the HMS Belfast in London, 6" gun WWII light cruiser.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 24 13:31:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Couple of mystery boards (MDS, Ricoh, ...) Message-ID: Well the nubus kinda cards I would bet money on being QMS laser printer boards, since the 2nd one even visibly says QMS on it... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 24 13:34:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 (fwd) Message-ID: Well hell, I need like 18 5100s then... If I got $1200 apeice for em I could pay off all my debts and likely have money to spare! Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From owad at applefritter.com Thu Oct 24 14:39:00 2002 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Couple of mystery boards (MDS, Ricoh, ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021024190117.24599@mail.lafayette.edu> >Well the nubus kinda cards I would bet money on being QMS laser printer >boards, since the 2nd one even visibly says QMS on it... Thanks. If anybody can use those, email me, as I don't have any use for them beyond pulling the chips. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Oct 24 14:55:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Couple of mystery boards (MDS, Ricoh, ...) References: <20021024190117.24599@mail.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: <3DB8509F.2080800@eoni.com> Missed the original post, but my main printer is a QMS PS1700. Tell me more, tell me more. Jim Tom Owad wrote: >>Well the nubus kinda cards I would bet money on being QMS laser printer >>boards, since the 2nd one even visibly says QMS on it... From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Oct 24 14:57:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Oct 24, 2 10:50:44 am" Message-ID: <200210242007.NAA09868@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > Also, I would just like to note this new low point in the history of the > > > Classic Computers Mailing List. > > > > I'm sure the record will be broken at a later time. :-) > > I strive to be the one to do it. $200 on Sellam. Anyone give me 2-1? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Good-bye. I am leaving because I am bored. -- George Saunders' dying words - From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Oct 24 15:04:00 2002 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:15 2005 Subject: Looking for CRT tester/rejuvenator References: Message-ID: <005e01c27b98$cd6b4540$a400a8c0@GamerC> Hi Looking for a "recent has possible" CRT tester/rejuvenator to do work on several older terminals, monitors and other equip with CRTs I have around here... Borrowing the high $ unit from work is not good for me....Carrying large monitors into work is not practical... Will trade or $s. Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Oct 24 15:04:57 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Couple of mystery boards (MDS, Ricoh, ...) In-Reply-To: <20021024190117.24599@mail.lafayette.edu> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021024161427.0259d038@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tom Owad may have mentioned these words: > >Well the nubus kinda cards I would bet money on being QMS laser printer > >boards, since the 2nd one even visibly says QMS on it... > >Thanks. If anybody can use those, email me, as I don't have any use for >them beyond pulling the chips. I didn't get a chance yet to see the pix, but I have a QMS Magicolor 2+ color laser - if they're related to that, I'd be interested... I'll check the pix tomorrow, but I've never had my printer apart, so I don't readily know if they match... Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From palazzol at comcast.net Thu Oct 24 15:17:00 2002 From: palazzol at comcast.net (Frank Palazzolo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) Message-ID: <3DB81D79.14559.10524331@localhost> Back in the late 80's I worked in a lab at Michigan State with a dozen or so SunOS Workstations, 2 Sun Fileservers, and a VAX8600 running Ultrix. All the Sun machines had odd, short names: bubo, mala, typh, pock, etc. It turns out the admin had named them all after diseases, but the management thought it was too much, so they all became 4-letter truncated diseases :) The VAX was renamed from sniffles to eecae (an acronym) at the same time. -Frank From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 24 15:51:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Looking for CRT tester/rejuvenator Message-ID: <200210242053.NAA00784@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Claude.W" > >Hi > >Looking for a "recent has possible" CRT tester/rejuvenator to do work on >several older terminals, monitors and other equip with CRTs I have around >here... > >Borrowing the high $ unit from work is not good for me....Carrying large >monitors into work is not practical... > >Will trade or $s. > >Claude >http://computer_collector.tripod.com > > Hi They can be tested in place. Most rejuvenators just run the filaments at about 1.5X to 2X the voltage while the rest of the voltages are at zero. You can do this with a bench power supply. Dwight From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Oct 24 16:04:01 2002 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Looking for CRT tester/rejuvenator References: <200210242053.NAA00784@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <008401c27ba1$4b980400$a400a8c0@GamerC> Well...newer units use a PIC or similar (probably) and will monitor currents and will attempt a "safer & gentler" restoration/rejuv....and will do several other tests... Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" To: Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 4:53 PM Subject: Re: Looking for CRT tester/rejuvenator > >From: "Claude.W" > > > >Hi > > > >Looking for a "recent has possible" CRT tester/rejuvenator to do work on > >several older terminals, monitors and other equip with CRTs I have around > >here... > > > >Borrowing the high $ unit from work is not good for me....Carrying large > >monitors into work is not practical... > > > >Will trade or $s. > > > >Claude > >http://computer_collector.tripod.com > > > > > > Hi > They can be tested in place. Most rejuvenators just run the > filaments at about 1.5X to 2X the voltage while the rest of the > voltages are at zero. You can do this with a bench power supply. > Dwight > > From kbhipp at yahoo.com Thu Oct 24 17:05:01 2002 From: kbhipp at yahoo.com (Kevin Hipp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: ELAN E9C EPROM Programmer Message-ID: <20021024220712.79866.qmail@web40307.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone have any information as to where I might locate a Manual for an old ELAN EPROM programmer/copier? If anyone has any leads I would appreciate it. Thanks Kevin Hipp __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 24 17:32:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Looking for CRT tester/rejuvenator Message-ID: <200210242233.PAA00841@clulw009.amd.com> Wow I rejuv old '20's tubes all the time. I just do it the old fashioned way. I'm not all that sure adding a PIC to the process would mean much. There is no such thing as a "safer & gentler" method. You need to bring the cathode to a temperature that is hot enough to bring new material to the surface. This always has the chance of blowing the filament. If done right, this can take from 2 to 20 minutes. I doubt that running it for, exactly, 19.53 minutes is much different than 20 minutes. You run it for a while with the higher voltage then measure the emission. You are the only one that can decide when it is good enough. How does the PIC know that the tube will be bright enough? It might even be over doing it?? Should it be as bright as new?? Should the emission value be the only judge?? Why is it that everyone thinks that a computer controlled or LASER light is better than tried and proven methods. I guess we all just read the labels and except what some marketing fellow wrote. There are some things a computer can do faster than me. It is a little more consistent than me. But it can be consistently bad as well. I guess if the computer blows it up, you can say that it was destined to fail anyway. Anyway, I thought you were talking about one of the old fashioned tester/rejuvenators. They just had a meter needle that was labeled red/yellow/green and a push button labeled Rejuvenate. I guess I'm just out of date. The ones I've seen didn't have a PIC in them. Later Dwight >From: "Claude.W" > >Well...newer units use a PIC or similar (probably) and will monitor currents >and will attempt a "safer & gentler" restoration/rejuv....and will do >several other tests... > >Claude >http://computer_collector.tripod.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >To: >Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 4:53 PM >Subject: Re: Looking for CRT tester/rejuvenator > > >> >From: "Claude.W" >> > >> >Hi >> > >> >Looking for a "recent has possible" CRT tester/rejuvenator to do work on >> >several older terminals, monitors and other equip with CRTs I have around >> >here... >> > >> >Borrowing the high $ unit from work is not good for me....Carrying large >> >monitors into work is not practical... >> > >> >Will trade or $s. >> > >> >Claude >> >http://computer_collector.tripod.com >> > >> > >> >> Hi >> They can be tested in place. Most rejuvenators just run the >> filaments at about 1.5X to 2X the voltage while the rest of the >> voltages are at zero. You can do this with a bench power supply. >> Dwight >> >> > > From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Oct 24 17:39:00 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: modem help Message-ID: <3DB876EA.2050701@arrl.net> I have a couple of (almost classic) external modems missing the wall warts. Anyone on list running either of these that can provide the dc voltage/current requirements? Thanks. Sportster 33.6 faxmodem Motorola ModemSurfer 33.6 -nick From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Oct 24 17:48:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <3DB876EA.2050701@arrl.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, no wrote: > I have a couple of (almost classic) external modems missing > the wall warts. Anyone on list running either of these that > can provide the dc voltage/current requirements? Thanks. > > Sportster 33.6 faxmodem > Motorola ModemSurfer 33.6 Dont know specifically about those (Though I did have the Motorala one years ago) but _many_ newwer modems run on 9 VAC adapters... > > > -nick > > > Peter Wallace From glenslick at hotmail.com Thu Oct 24 18:15:01 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: HP1000 Card Edge Connectors Message-ID: I checked with one of the HP1000 dealers on the net and was quoted $100 for a 12966A serial cable. I guess that would be either a 12966-60004 or a 12966-60006 for standard 25-pin terminal / modem cables. Now I'm glad I recently picked up an unused 12566C off of eBay complete with the 48-pin connector for just over $20 delivered. When that arrives I should be able to use that connector to build a serial cable for the 12966A. Is there a scan of the 12966A manual (12966-90001) on the net somewhere? I've found a large selection of other HP 1000 manuals, but not one for the 12966A. I did google up a 2 year old message from Frank on this list with card edge signal descriptions so I at least have that. -Glen >From: "Glen Slick" >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: HP1000 Card Edge Connectors >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:33:05 -0700 > >I think the necessary connector is a dual row 48 contact 0.156" spacing >card edge connector. I'll have to see if I can find a source. I think >some place like http://www.edac.net would let you specify such a connector, >but actually buying some in low quantities might be a different story. > >-Glen > > >>From: "Will Jennings" >>Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: Re: HP 2647A / F Terminal & HP1000 >>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:52:43 -0600 >> >>Closest I ever came to cables was the hacked-off ends as gold scrap : ( >> >>Will J _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 24 18:25:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Cool Finds at Auction and Thrifts today Message-ID: <000701c27bb4$df123f80$7b000240@oemcomputer> I walked into one of the local thrifts today and spotted a cool looking terminal with Data General label on the front but on the back it said Wyse model WinTerm 2500-TP. It was priced at $21.12 but I was able to get it for $12.21 plus tax. I just hooked up a Compaq KB and mouse to it and it seems to work fine. I went into several menus it has on it and it's setup for 256 colors looks real sharp. I also picked up a Commodore model 2002 Digital/Analog RGB monitor have not tested it yet but it was only $1. Other items today were Wyse 60 and a model 160 have not tested either yet but they also were $1 each; Apple III Business Graphics manual and software for 25 cents; Sharp Pocket Computer carrying case and Printer/Cassette interface model CE-122 but no computer was with it but it was free; another Turbografx16 with 1 game cartridge and power adapter. My strange picks for today were a these hand held game consoles; Space Revenger by Tronica (1983), MARIO'S Cement Factory by Nintendo (1983), Donkey Kong JR. by Nintendo (1982), and Backjack 21 by RADIC:. From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Oct 24 19:17:00 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Looking for CRT tester/rejuvenator In-Reply-To: <200210242053.NAA00784@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20021025001909.PKIB25284.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> From: "Dwight K. Elvey" Subject: Re: Looking for CRT tester/rejuvenator To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:53:02 -0700 (PDT) >From: "Claude.W" > >Hi > >Looking for a "recent has possible" CRT tester/rejuvenator to do work on >several older terminals, monitors and other equip with CRTs I have around >here... > >Borrowing the high $ unit from work is not good for me....Carrying large >monitors into work is not practical... > >Will trade or $s. > >Claude >http://computer_collector.tripod.com > > Hi They can be tested in place. Most rejuvenators just run the filaments at about 1.5X to 2X the voltage while the rest of the voltages are at zero. You can do this with a bench power supply. Dwight Another reason for having rejuvenator it has ablitity to test emissions and leakages (short), also can remove those shorts as well besides just heating the heater HOTTER. Secore brand is very good, get used one instead to keep cost down, be prepared for sticker shock. Your best bet is buy up new TTL monitor (mono) and stick the new tube into your old terminals is cheapest. Otherwise for color CRT is same from used monitor except have to spend lot of time convergencing them. Cheers, Wizard From mhscc at canada.com Thu Oct 24 19:29:00 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Lost digests Message-ID: <000501c27bbd$ccba6c00$5b4a3dcf@msed03> I didn't realize that my mailbox had filled up, so I missed a few digests; is it possible to retrieve past digests with Mailman as it was with the previous system? mike From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 24 19:34:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Looking for CRT tester/rejuvenator Message-ID: <200210250036.RAA00959@clulw009.amd.com> >From: jpero@sympatico.ca > >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >Subject: Re: Looking for CRT tester/rejuvenator >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:53:02 -0700 (PDT) > >>From: "Claude.W" >> >>Hi >> >>Looking for a "recent has possible" CRT tester/rejuvenator to do work on >>several older terminals, monitors and other equip with CRTs I have around >>here... >> >>Borrowing the high $ unit from work is not good for me....Carrying large >>monitors into work is not practical... >> >>Will trade or $s. >> >>Claude >>http://computer_collector.tripod.com >> >> > >Hi > They can be tested in place. Most rejuvenators just run the >filaments at about 1.5X to 2X the voltage while the rest of the >voltages are at zero. You can do this with a bench power supply. >Dwight > >Another reason for having rejuvenator it has ablitity to test >emissions and leakages (short), also can remove those shorts as well >besides just heating the heater HOTTER. You are right but it is still the brightness of the screen that counts in the end. Measured emission is only part of the end result. Tired phosphors can't be measured without a photometer or the eye. Shorts can be opened the same way. Charge a large capacitor and hit it to to short. Again, a cheaper way. > >Secore brand is very good, get used one instead to keep cost down, be >prepared for sticker shock. Your best bet is buy up new TTL monitor >(mono) and stick the new tube into your old terminals is cheapest. > >Otherwise for color CRT is same from used monitor except have to >spend lot of time convergencing them. Convergence is an art. Dwight > >Cheers, > >Wizard > From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 24 19:55:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Pet Question Message-ID: <018101c27bc1$67a498a0$7b000240@oemcomputer> Tried my Pet 2001 series today and no display? If I turn the bright up all the way I can see white broken lines across the screen. The built in cassette players comes on fine. Anyone have clue where to begin? thanks From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Oct 24 20:06:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Even stranger classic software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > > I wonder if anyone ever wrote a program on the Apple that wailed out the > > > Muslim call to prayer? > > > > > > > I have the Omm program somewhere, I'm sure. Just a little executable that does the Buddhist Ommm. It's ridiculuos, and very soothing. Neer tried it on anything earlier than 7.0.1 No clue where I got it. Doc From dancohoe at oxford.net Thu Oct 24 20:31:00 2002 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: FW: CP/M and NEC PC8001A items available Message-ID: <000101c27bc6$bb96f9d0$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> This didn't get on the list first time around so here it is again. Recently I found someone (thank you Joe!) who had a bunch of Z-80 stuff including Televideo TS803's, Xerox 820-II's etc. I brought quite a lot home, but he still has some items that he values highly. He apparently needs to move soon and is short of cash. The things I got from him were in excellent condition. He's located in western New York state. I've tried to help him out and if necessary, could store stuff for someone. If you email me off-list, I can give you his address. regards, Dan Cohoe Here's what he sent me the other day: > I have several items left to sell: > > 4 NEC PC-8001A computers and a few printers with 4 boxes of > assorted hardware and software. > > Note: Only 3 NEC Monitors (Green). However, to make > up for the missing monitor I have bundled with these computers > 2 AMDEK (Amber Monitors) (Condition unknown) > 1 AMDEK II Color Monitor (that needs minor repair) > 1 Apple Monitor III (was working when I last used it. > > Note: One of the mini disk units seems to work when it wants to... > > Also, I have about seven boxes of Z80 and CP/M related items: > > 1) a few TRS-80 Mysteries decoded books > > 2) Tons of CP/M Books (assembler/database/communications) > > 3) Kilobaud Magazines > > 4) Digital Research CP/M Plus manuals > > 5) Much more > > I know that one of these boxes contains the original LDOS > manual with LDOS related magazines.... (still need to find the > box...it's hidden here somewhere...) > > Brian > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 24 20:50:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Oct 23, 2 02:05:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 423 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021024/7d10b3cc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 24 20:52:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Looking for CRT tester/rejuvenator In-Reply-To: <200210242053.NAA00784@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Oct 24, 2 01:53:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 364 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021024/e44b3ab8/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 24 21:24:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > As usual, my favorite is the DEC Rainbow. Z-80 for CP/M, 8088 for CP/M > [...] > > find one. The unusual floppy format is an issue, but that's true of many > > CP/M systems. > Well, at least it's standard MFM ('double density') encoding, on a > single-sided 80 cylinder drive. So you do have a hope of being able to > read/write the disks on some other machine. Machines that use GCR > encoding make life a lot harder... There are certainly some really bizarre ones. The Victor 9000 (aka Sirius) is MUCH weirder than the Rainbow. The Rainbow format for CP/M isn't very unusual. 'course there are thousands (I estimate 2500) mutually incompatible floppy formats. But the Rainbow MS-DOS format is truly unique. It is the only one that I've seen that doesn't have the DIRectory on track 0. IIRC, it was Mark Graybill? (Media Master) who wrote a group of programs to run on the Rainbow to read and write some PC formats, and some programs to partially emoulate some of the PC quirks. The Rainbow was a nice machine, whose biggest problem AND feature was its uniqueness. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 24 21:33:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: FW: CP/M and NEC PC8001A items available In-Reply-To: <000101c27bc6$bb96f9d0$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Dan Cohoe wrote: > He's located in western New York state. I've tried to help > > I have several items left to sell: > > 4 NEC PC-8001A computers and a few printers with 4 boxes of > > assorted hardware and software. Those are kinda neat, in that in addition to CP/M, they run "NEC-DOS" (a Microsoft written "stand-alone BASIC" somewhat akin to what they did with the Coco) > > 1) a few TRS-80 Mysteries decoded books "TRS-80 Disk and other mysteries" was Harv Pennington's first book of the series, and was the de-facto reference for learning the TRS-DOS disk format. Later on, he distributed a PC-DOS version of Michael Shrayer's "Electric Pencil"! (the most popular microcomputer word processor before CP/M, and before Wordstar) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dlw at trailingedge.com Thu Oct 24 21:42:00 2002 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Anime (was: Sign of the times) In-Reply-To: <001301c27530$0d374080$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3DB86A09.21218.63CD2B@localhost> On 16 Oct 2002 at 17:21, Philip Pemberton wrote: > >> Cartoon network is not the place to watch Anime. > > Where is? > WinMX or KaZaA. Download, encode to suit your video editing card and > then play it back on a bigscreen TV. Shame about all the bad > TV->tape->Divx rips though. Ugh, you could try buying the DVDs. ----- "If you want to see it, see into it directly; but when you stop to think about it, it is altogether missed." "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 24 21:43:11 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <200210242007.NAA09868@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: A few years ago (OK, about 10), I introduced an internet class to rtfm.mit.edu (the big FAQ archive). Somebody asked what "RTFM" stood for. I said, "Read The Fucking Manual". One of the students filed a complaint that I "was rude and profane in response to a reasonable question". On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > Also, I would just like to note this new low point in the history of the > > > > Classic Computers Mailing List. > > > > > > I'm sure the record will be broken at a later time. :-) > > > > I strive to be the one to do it. > > $200 on Sellam. Anyone give me 2-1? From dlw at trailingedge.com Thu Oct 24 21:46:00 2002 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: OT: Anime (was: Sign of the times) In-Reply-To: <3DAD91D3.3080703@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3DB86ADC.2277.67055C@localhost> Go away for a while and come back to find people talking about my work in the list. :-) On 16 Oct 2002 at 10:20, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Note old computers will never be on anime, they just > have the new high tech fantasy stuff. Actually there are often old computers in anime and even a whole series revolving around playing old arcade games. There is one rather R rated series where different characters are named after various old models of Macs. What I've found a better match up of anime and old computers is that I can trade anime for old computers. Got an Atari Portfolio and a Poly-88 that way. :-) ----- "If you want to see it, see into it directly; but when you stop to think about it, it is altogether missed." "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Oct 24 21:54:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DB8380A.7920.B0220E@localhost> I've got a deskmate program for the Tandy 1000 that was for kitchens. It included recipes, grocery lists and other kitchen orientated things. A family message centre, "John, the leftover meatloaf is in the fridge. Dolly, dont forget to take your show-and-tell to school. " Can't remember it's name and it's buried somewhere here. Lawrence > I'm sure most people on the list are familiar with Honeywell's Kitchen > Computer. And then there are also plenty of more recent attempts to > computerize the kitchen these days: The Electrolux fridge computer, > 3COM's aborted Audrey internet appliance, and a whole range of systems > from South Korea's LG Electronics. > > But what of the intervening years? What was going on during the 1970s > and 1980s to conquer the kitchen with computer technology; either with > software or hardware? I've vague recollections of commercial software > being availble for 80s era microcomputers--things like recipe databases > software--but I can't come up with any specific examples. > > Does anyone here know of other classic computer kitchen automation > products from bygone decades? > > -brian. > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Oct 24 21:54:57 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: ET-3400 Revision Questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3DB8380A.19948.B021DC@localhost> Can't be of much help cause my model is the same as on your schematics. with the extra 2112s. I do have the Heathkit Lab manuals that we used the 3400 to train on. They were available from Heathkit at last check (some time ago). Lawrence > Guys, > > I just got an ET-3400 that was partially built. On average, the > construction seems to be fairly good. I haven't yet plugged the rascal in, I'm > still doing a visual checkout and comparison to instructions and schematics, and > trying to find the point or points at which the kit has remaining steps. > Mechanically it seems to be in great shape: the labels for the case haven't been > applied, and the case is completely unscratched. Soldering is generally good, > but flux hasn't been removed so it looks untidy. The keys still have the thin > plastic film over their caps, and it's obvious that this unit has had little if > any use. Perhaps the builder had a problem and wasn't able to diagnose it, I > don't know. > > I have a manual with schematics, but it's apparent from inspection that the > manual refers to an older revision (part numbers different, parts changed or > absent, etc.). The main board is part number 85-2712 (-2). Unfortunately, I > don't have the x-ray views of the board, and the component side is completely > covered with a white plastic mask that carries various labels and graphics, so > traces on that side are all but invisible. > > Before I break out the probe, I've got a couple of questions, for those who may > know: > > The 6800 in the schematic is a 6802 on the live unit, and the 6875 in the > schematic is absent altogether, and there's no trace (no pun intended) of a > location for it. This seems to make sense; the '02 has its clock generator on > board, correct? Where is its 128 bytes of RAM mapped? There are also two > 2114's on this board, rather than two 2112's and two empty sockets for > additional 2112's. > > There's a jumper soldered between U4 (a 74126) pin 5 and the nearest > resistor (part of the 8-LED assembly). Not on the schematic, but it seems > like it quite possibly could be a pull up or down (pin 5 is an input to a > tri-state buffer, pin 6 is the output to the DBE signal on the MPU, at > least, according to the schematic I _have_). Again, I can't tell easily in this > area of the board because the component-side traces are covered with the white > plastic mask. > > The ROM is 444-364, so I suspect the source listing in the manual I have > (for ROM part number 444-17) won't nearly cut it and routines have probably > moved. Does anyone have a listing of this ROM they'd be willing to share? > > IC1 is listed as a 'LS241 on the schematics I have, but there's a 'LS240 in the > socket. I can't visually verify that the change is appropriate, or just a bad > substitution by the builder, because the component-side traces are covered by > that white mask. It seems plausible that Heath would, for whatever reason, > decide to invert the sense of the lines buffering the eight binary display LEDs > (not the 7-seg displays on the right, the eight FLV117s on the left), and this > would be an appropriate substitution. Of course I can quickly find out with a > logic probe or some of Heathkit's infamous "short wires", but I was just > wondering if anybody knew for sure? > > Does anyone have a GIF or JPG (or other format) of the x-ray of the main > board (even a newer or older revision), or a copy of the "Illustration > Booklet" that they'd be willing to share? For that matter, does anyone have a > copy of the manual for this (or near) board revision? The manual I have is from > Raymond Sarrio, and it was listed on his site as the Illustration Book, but it > turned out to the Manual (I'm going to contact him as well). I'm happy to > buy/trade... > > Thanks! --Patrick > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Oct 24 21:55:31 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Micom 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3DB8380A.7817.B02173@localhost> Not in my estimation. Good score !! It went into production in 1976 and by 1981 had over 100 sales and support offices in N.A. Among it's customers were NASA and Washinton Gas. It was marketed as a word processor but was capable of much more. It's a shame it hasn't had more exposure as an important historical item. One of the founders and president had been part of the startup of another early company AES Appled(?) Electronic Systems which he sold and then started up Micom. I ran across one credit that said AES produced the first programmable word processor. After selling out to Philips he went on to lead a company dealing in communication protocols. There were com programs for it (NASA had MICOMS linked up with their mainframe), a modified MSBasic-80, a MathPac (none of which I have) and a superior word processing program. I have a TRS-80 m.2 and the Micom is preferable to "Scripts-It" and much better IMHO than the early Wordperfect Wordstar, or Word that came out later. It has limited graphic ability as well as subscript and superscript. I have 2 program disks "Word Processor" and "Data Processor". Mine has a large Shugart 8" FDD and a quite speedy Qume daisy wheel printer(with a humungeously large PSU). I have a manual for it as well as some of their newsletters. Not much available on the net but some data transfer companies still support it. Another list member, Charlie Fox has/had a m.2001 and I've found but not yet contacted a person with a site who once worked for them doing programming and system design. Contact me when you receive it and let me know what came with it. I'll be happy to help you with what I can. Lawrence > Well, maybe I just scored an ebay bargan. I just "bought-it-now" > for $30 plus shipping. A quick web search seems to indicate that > this is an early (1975?) 8080 based small business computer. There > is an old classiccmp thread with a few general messages about this > box. Anybody want to talk about it... what software it runs, etc. > Did I just throw $50 away? > > Bill > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From blstuart at bellsouth.net Thu Oct 24 23:03:01 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:44:25 -0700 (PDT) . Message-ID: In message , "Fred C isin (XenoSoft)" writes: >A few years ago (OK, about 10), I introduced an internet class to >rtfm.mit.edu (the big FAQ archive). Somebody asked what "RTFM" stood for. >I said, "Read The Fucking Manual". One of the students filed a complaint >that I "was rude and profane in response to a reasonable question". One summer when I was teaching a summer course for some students in the 12-14 year old range. One of the students asked a question where I needed a dummy variable. So for illustration, I naturally named it dummy. A day or so later the program director approached me very concerned because the student had reported that I had called him a dummy. Brian L. Stuart From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Oct 24 23:11:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: References: <3DB876EA.2050701@arrl.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021025000908.00753a80@pop1.epm.net.co> At 03:49 PM 10/24/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, no wrote: >> I have a couple of (almost classic) external modems missing >> the wall warts. Anyone on list running either of these that >> can provide the dc voltage/current requirements? Thanks. >> Sportster 33.6 faxmodem >> Motorola ModemSurfer 33.6 >Dont know specifically about those (Though I did have the Motorala >one years ago) but _many_ newwer modems run on 9 VAC adapters... That sportster needs 9VAC. Older sportsters need 12VAC. I don't know about the Motorola. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From archer at topnow.com Thu Oct 24 23:18:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) References: Message-ID: <3DB8C675.8E4B71E9@topnow.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > > > I had some VMS systems that I named SKITZO, PSYCHO, and PHLEGM. > > > > > > I was limited to six characters for the name due to DECnet. I > > > > > > was going for odd names. I was going to name the next one > > > > > > SMEGMA, but the order was cancelled. > > > > > > > > > > I guess it would've been worse if you'd gotten to JISM. > > > > > > > > Part of the plan called for using all six characters. I would > > > > have had to spelled it differently. > > > > > > Ok, SPOOGE. > > > > Well, that's using a different word. What's a 6-letter phonetic > > spelling for JISM? > > JISM = SPOOGE (at least in the school yards where I grew up ;) > > But if you want to stick with jism, go with JIZZIM. Maybe even JIZZUM. Questionable taste! There, *now* we've hit bottom. :-) > > Also, I would just like to note this new low point in the history of the > Classic Computers Mailing List. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Oct 24 23:27:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <3DB876EA.2050701@arrl.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, no wrote: > I have a couple of (almost classic) external modems missing the wall > warts. Anyone on list running either of these that can provide the dc > voltage/current requirements? Thanks. > > Sportster 33.6 faxmodem > Motorola ModemSurfer 33.6 The Sportster needs a 9VAC supply (if that is the "standard" white Sportster modem anyway). I have tons of these modems also in need of supplies. The Motorola likely also uses a 9VAC supply. I have a 28.8 version of that modem that uses a 9VAC wall wart. US Robotics still sells replacement supplies for their modems, but they want $10+postage for them IIRC. -Toth From red at bears.org Thu Oct 24 23:30:01 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <3DB8C675.8E4B71E9@topnow.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Ross Archer wrote: > > But if you want to stick with jism, go with JIZZIM. Maybe even JIZZUM. > > Questionable taste! > > There, *now* we've hit bottom. :-) Is that even possible? migod. I don't want to play with you lot, anymore. ok r. ps. I think my purity test score just dropped below 99.44% pps. No, I didn't get it straight away. From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Oct 24 23:43:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, no wrote: > > > I have a couple of (almost classic) external modems missing the wall > > warts. Anyone on list running either of these that can provide the dc > > voltage/current requirements? Thanks. > > > > Sportster 33.6 faxmodem > > Motorola ModemSurfer 33.6 > > The Sportster needs a 9VAC supply (if that is the "standard" white > Sportster modem anyway). I have tons of these modems also in need of > supplies. Oh, and I forgot to mention it is rated at 1000ma. I can unplug the one I use later if you need the US Robotics part number. -Toth From donm at cts.com Fri Oct 25 00:05:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, no wrote: > > > I have a couple of (almost classic) external modems missing the wall > > warts. Anyone on list running either of these that can provide the dc > > voltage/current requirements? Thanks. > > > > Sportster 33.6 faxmodem > > Motorola ModemSurfer 33.6 > > The Sportster needs a 9VAC supply (if that is the "standard" white > Sportster modem anyway). I have tons of these modems also in need of > supplies. I have a 56K Voice Faxmodem - brown case - and it also uses 9VAC. It is not too difficult to find suitable wall-warts here at thrifts, at fairly nominal prices, but shipping them could be expensive. - don > The Motorola likely also uses a 9VAC supply. I have a 28.8 version of that > modem that uses a 9VAC wall wart. > > US Robotics still sells replacement supplies for their modems, but they > want $10+postage for them IIRC. > > -Toth > > From donm at cts.com Fri Oct 25 00:09:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, no wrote: > > > > > I have a couple of (almost classic) external modems missing the wall > > > warts. Anyone on list running either of these that can provide the dc > > > voltage/current requirements? Thanks. > > > > > > Sportster 33.6 faxmodem > > > Motorola ModemSurfer 33.6 > > > > The Sportster needs a 9VAC supply (if that is the "standard" white > > Sportster modem anyway). I have tons of these modems also in need of > > supplies. > > Oh, and I forgot to mention it is rated at 1000ma. I can unplug the one I > use later if you need the US Robotics part number. My substitute is rated at 800ma and seems quite 'comfortable' running all day. - don > -Toth > > From patrick at evocative.com Fri Oct 25 00:11:01 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I have a couple of (almost classic) external modems missing the wall > > warts. Anyone on list running either of these that can provide the dc > > voltage/current requirements? Thanks. > > > > Sportster 33.6 faxmodem > > Motorola ModemSurfer 33.6 > > The Sportster needs a 9VAC supply (if that is the "standard" white > Sportster modem anyway). I have tons of these modems also in need of > supplies. Hmmmm... I have two Sportsters. One is a 33.6 model (product code is 000839-07), which uses a 9VAC supply, 1000ma, labeled USR part number 1.015.1286. The other one is an older 28.8 model (product code is 000839-01), and it uses a 20VAC (!) supply, 500ma, labeled p/n 1.015.1202-B. Neither modem has any marking stating its power requirements. Sweet. The plugs on both are very similar, both black banded 5.5mm female, but the center hole is 2.1mm on the 20V supply, 2.5mm on the 9V supply. Just a quick peek at the Jameco catalog looks like their equivalent part number for the 9V supply is 157041 for $5.95 (caveat emptor... I can't confirm this is a working replacement, it just looks right). Patrick From patrick at evocative.com Fri Oct 25 00:21:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Junk Box [was RE: modem help] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > The Sportster needs a 9VAC supply (if that is the "standard" white > > Sportster modem anyway). I have tons of these modems also in need of > > supplies. All of this talk about missing supplies... I've got an old Motorola BitSURFR Pro ISDN that I tossed into my junk box quite a while ago. It's got an interesting supply: DIN-8 plug, 5V 500ma, +/-12V 130ma. It occurred to me during this discussion that although the modem has past retirement, the supply could well have been used with other Motorola devices people are still interested in. If anyone's interested, let me know. It's just sitting around waiting for the next load to the dump right now... Patrick From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Oct 25 01:38:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Hmmmm... I have two Sportsters. One is a 33.6 model (product code is > 000839-07), which uses a 9VAC supply, 1000ma, labeled USR part number > 1.015.1286. The other one is an older 28.8 model (product code is > 000839-01), and it uses a 20VAC (!) supply, 500ma, labeled p/n > 1.015.1202-B. Neither modem has any marking stating its power > requirements. Sweet. The plugs on both are very similar, both black > banded 5.5mm female, but the center hole is 2.1mm on the 20V supply, > 2.5mm on the 9V supply. Just a quick peek at the Jameco catalog looks > like their equivalent part number for the 9V supply is 157041 for $5.95 > (caveat emptor... I can't confirm this is a working replacement, it just > looks right). Strangely enough, US Robotics made two different Sportster 28.8 modems. I've only seen a handful that used the 20VAC supply, so I generally don't worry about them. At least you can't plug the 20VAC supply into the modems that need 9VAC. I doubt that plugging a 9VAC supply into the 28.8 would hurt it, but I doubt it would work properly. AFAIK, all of the 33.6, 14.4, and 9600 Sportsters used 9VAC, and I believe most all of the 4800/2400/1200 Sportsters did too. I think some of the really early 1200s used yet another supply. US Robotics/3Com made two distinctly different versions of the 33.6 Sportster (but both use the same supply). One has an Intel flash RAM chip in it for firmware upgrades (these are 56K X2/V90 capable if you can still find the proper firmware, it wasn't commonly available). The other has a ROM in it, and is pretty much stuck at 33.6. I have a number of the ROM type 33.6 modems somewhere, and I've often wondered if they could be modified to support the flash chip. USR also made several versions of the later 56K modem, but AFAIK, all of them can be flash upgraded in one way or another to support the latest 56K X2/v90 protocols. Some (although all should be) upgradeable to v92, but USR wants to charge for the upgrade on some of the units. If you really want to see some power supply weirdness, have a look at Hayes modems, specifically the "classic" aluminum shell ones. I've used *tons* of modems made by USR and Hayes over the years... -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Oct 25 01:50:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > The Sportster needs a 9VAC supply (if that is the "standard" white > > Sportster modem anyway). I have tons of these modems also in need of > > supplies. > > I have a 56K Voice Faxmodem - brown case - and it also uses 9VAC. It is > not too difficult to find suitable wall-warts here at thrifts, at fairly > nominal prices, but shipping them could be expensive. The Voice Faxmodem series do indeed look very different than the classic white-brick style Sportsters. It doesn't surprise me that USR/3Com choose to use the same supply, since I imagine they have quite a stock of those 9VAC/1000ma units. Oh, and for those who haven't had the chance to split one of these supplies open (I had one with an open primary), they basically have no fuses or other protection devices. The primary windings are designed to short/burn out if something catastrophic happens...a very poor design. The unit I have that did this even melted the plastic bobbin. If someone here finds a substantial supply of suitable 9VAC wall warts at a nominal price, do let me know. I have at least 20-30 modems ranging from 1200s to 33.6s packed away waiting for such supplies. -Toth From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 25 02:05:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > A few years ago (OK, about 10), I introduced an internet class to > rtfm.mit.edu (the big FAQ archive). Somebody asked what "RTFM" stood for. > I said, "Read The Fucking Manual". One of the students filed a complaint > that I "was rude and profane in response to a reasonable question". Oh, come on, Fred. You know you said it in such a way that the student would have misunderstood it to be your response ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 25 02:10:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: > One summer when I was teaching a summer course for some students > in the 12-14 year old range. One of the students asked a question > where I needed a dummy variable. So for illustration, I naturally > named it dummy. A day or so later the program director approached > me very concerned because the student had reported that I had called > him a dummy. Hmm, it seems he really was ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Oct 25 03:03:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <3DB876EA.2050701@arrl.net> Message-ID: <3DB88078.2488.1CB1B06@localhost> My 33.6 uses a 9v 1000mA Lawrence > I have a couple of (almost classic) external modems missing > the wall warts. Anyone on list running either of these that > can provide the dc voltage/current requirements? Thanks. > > Sportster 33.6 faxmodem > Motorola ModemSurfer 33.6 > > > -nick > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Oct 25 03:10:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: HP1000 Card Edge Connectors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Glen Slick wrote: > I checked with one of the HP1000 dealers on the net and was quoted $100 > for a 12966A serial cable. I guess that would be either a 12966-60004 > or a 12966-60006 for standard 25-pin terminal / modem cables. > > Now I'm glad I recently picked up an unused 12566C off of eBay complete > with the 48-pin connector for just over $20 delivered. When that > arrives I should be able to use that connector to build a serial cable > for the 12966A. I was checking my inventory of unusual cables to see if I had one of these, and although I couldn't find one, I came across a couple of other unusual cables. I put up photos and information here: http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/cables/ If anyone has an idea what they might be, speak up so I can tag and inventory them properly... -Toth From wonko at 4amlunch.net Fri Oct 25 04:07:00 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: 6 free RA81 disks near philly (for pickup only) Message-ID: <20021025050822.A1728947@marvin.4amlunch.net> Dave McGuire and I had the good fortune of being able to rescue that lot of PDP-11/70 kit from Williamsport, PA. in there was a pile of stuff that none of us really want or need. one of those things is 6 RA81 disks. they are currently arranged in 3 DEC short racks. come take them, they are under a tarp in my driveway. come before it snows. -brian -- "He's hopped up on caffeine. He has the strength of ten mice." -PVP From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Oct 25 05:00:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: HP1000 Card Edge Connectors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021025030156.047a82d0@mail.zipcon.net> at 03:12 AM 10/25/02 -0500, you wrote: >I was checking my inventory of unusual cables to see if I had one of >these, and although I couldn't find one, I came across a couple of other >unusual cables. I put up photos and information here: > http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/cables/ > >If anyone has an idea what they might be, speak up so I can tag and >inventory them properly... > >-Toth the top one looks like a commodore vic20/c64 to serial cable (If my memory is still working right....) it should be 10 double sided pins IIRC on the 'card edge' end... the bottom one looks like a winchester extender, used for some Routers and NT1's From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Oct 25 09:06:01 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > One summer when I was teaching a summer course for some students > > in the 12-14 year old range. One of the students asked a question > > where I needed a dummy variable. So for illustration, I naturally > > named it dummy. A day or so later the program director approached > > me very concerned because the student had reported that I had called > > him a dummy. > > Hmm, it seems he really was ;) > After that, I'd happily rename the variable to "smart" and the student to "fucking idiot". :) g. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 09:23:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Pet Question In-Reply-To: <018101c27bc1$67a498a0$7b000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20021025142521.25250.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > Tried my Pet 2001 series today and no display? If I turn the bright up > all the way I can see white broken lines across the screen. The built > in cassette players comes on fine. Anyone have clue where to begin? Do you have an oscilloscope? A logic probe? Knowing what tools you have helps direct the assistance. Check for a reset pulse on the CPU (or any other VLSI chip - it's the same signal). Check for clock to the CPU. One of the chips (I think it's the 6522) has to work or the video is permanently blanked (i.e., if you remove it entirely, the machine runs as best it can, but you'll see nothing). If it's nothing that basic, it might be a component fault in the video circuit. Since you mention it's a "2001" - that means that there is no 6545; the video is in TTL. The schematics are at http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/pet/index.html - pick the right link for your model (static PET vs DRAM-based-no-CTRC) Oh... check the voltages first. ISTR there are two +5VDC regulators. One failing can cause all sorts of unhappy behavior. Cheers, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 09:35:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:16 2005 Subject: Cool Finds at Auction and Thrifts today In-Reply-To: <000701c27bb4$df123f80$7b000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20021025143711.68070.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > I walked into one of the local thrifts today and spotted a cool looking > terminal with Data General label on the front but on the back it said > Wyse model WinTerm 2500-TP. It was priced at $21.12 but I was able to > get it for $12.21 plus tax. I've seen those at the local Uni surplus (at a substantially higher price, too high for me to justify playing with). Since you have one, what can you *do* with them? Run Citrix? I did some initial digging when I saw a few float by, but unless you are in a strong MS environment, what good are they? ISTR they have a Compact Flash card. Is it possible to run an OS on them, or are they locked into whatever their BIOS/firmware allow? > I also picked up a Commodore model 2002 Digital/Analog RGB monitor have > not tested it yet but it was only $1. Nice score. Handy for that basement VCR, too! Wish the Thrifts in Ohio didn't suck so bad. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 09:40:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: 6 free RA81 disks near philly (for pickup only) In-Reply-To: <20021025050822.A1728947@marvin.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: <20021025144220.69514.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Hechinger wrote: > Dave McGuire and I had the good fortune of being able to rescue that lot > of PDP-11/70 kit from Williamsport, PA. Nice. Got any spare toggle-switch front panels? :-) > in there was a pile... of 6 RA81 disks. > > come take them, they are under a tarp in my driveway. come before it > snows. Come before vandals leave *more* of them in the pile. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Oct 25 09:46:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > One summer when I was teaching a summer course for some students > > > in the 12-14 year old range. One of the students asked a question > > > where I needed a dummy variable. So for illustration, I naturally > > > named it dummy. A day or so later the program director approached > > > me very concerned because the student had reported that I had called > > > him a dummy. > > > > Hmm, it seems he really was ;) > > > > After that, I'd happily rename the variable to "smart" and the student to > "fucking idiot". :) Had a student in California complain to IBM because I kept calling her "ma'am" Seriously. Doc From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 25 10:13:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: modem help References: Message-ID: <004101c27c39$26dd1b80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > US Robotics still sells replacement supplies for > their modems, but they want $10?? for them IIRC. I have a Large supply of wallwarts, perhaps 50. If someone wants to pay me $3 per supply plus shipping, I will look through the cabinet for what you want. Probably a good deal for those of you needing more than one at one time. John A. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Oct 25 10:16:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Had a student in California complain to IBM because I kept calling her > "ma'am" > Seriously. > > Doc > That just boggles the mind. g. From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Oct 25 10:17:54 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Pet Question - Tools answer References: <20021025142521.25250.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009601c27c39$78e35660$56010240@oemcomputer> Thanks for the tips. I have a logic but working scope right now (there's one up in MN in one of the storage units). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Pet Question > > --- Keys wrote: > > Tried my Pet 2001 series today and no display? If I turn the bright up > > all the way I can see white broken lines across the screen. The built > > in cassette players comes on fine. Anyone have clue where to begin? > > Do you have an oscilloscope? A logic probe? Knowing what tools you > have helps direct the assistance. > > Check for a reset pulse on the CPU (or any other VLSI chip - it's the same > signal). Check for clock to the CPU. One of the chips (I think it's > the 6522) has to work or the video is permanently blanked (i.e., if you > remove it entirely, the machine runs as best it can, but you'll see > nothing). If it's nothing that basic, it might be a component fault > in the video circuit. Since you mention it's a "2001" - that means > that there is no 6545; the video is in TTL. The schematics are at > http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/pet/index.html - pick > the right link for your model (static PET vs DRAM-based-no-CTRC) > > Oh... check the voltages first. ISTR there are two +5VDC regulators. > One failing can cause all sorts of unhappy behavior. > > Cheers, > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 10:21:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: OT: Loss of the Scorpion, was Re: Naming Computers [was: A Momentous Decision] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021025151909.35684.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Will Jennings wrote: > I also recommend going to the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry, and > going through the U-boat... Or if you are ever in Sydney, go through the privately-owned Soviet Diesel Sub (a Soviet "Scorpion"? There is a depiction of on twined around the Red Star on the side of the conning tower) My broom closet is larger than the captain's cabin. The bridge (just outside the captain's cabin) is so narrow that two men cannot easily pass each other. Empty torpedo racks are official billets. I'd rather be in space. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 10:21:51 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021025152156.88072.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > > > On 10/23/02, Sellam Ismail scribbled: > > > > > I have some really cool software for my Apple ][ called The Master > > > Bartender. It has recipes for dozens (hundreds?) of cocktails... Is there an Apple II emulator for any PDA? Seems like a winning combination. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Oct 25 10:23:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Cool Finds at Auction and Thrifts today In-Reply-To: <20021025143711.68070.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Keys wrote: > > I walked into one of the local thrifts today and spotted a cool looking > > terminal with Data General label on the front but on the back it said > > Wyse model WinTerm 2500-TP. It was priced at $21.12 but I was able to > > get it for $12.21 plus tax. > > I've seen those at the local Uni surplus (at a substantially higher > price, too high for me to justify playing with). > > Since you have one, what can you *do* with them? Run Citrix? I did > some initial digging when I saw a few float by, but unless you are in > a strong MS environment, what good are they? ISTR they have a Compact > Flash card. Is it possible to run an OS on them, or are they locked > into whatever their BIOS/firmware allow? The ones I played with back when I had a job helping to maintain a Windows Terminal Server installation (from back before I came over to the 'good side') had at least an ASCII terminal emulator that worked with its serial port, and possibly also could be used to do telnet without requiring it to connect to a WTS machine. Their main purpose, however, was to connect to a WTS host using RDP or Citrix Metaframe. Still, I'm sure you can flash the firmware (we had to do it to fix some bugs), without a WTS host connected, so I'm sure you could somehow coerse it to be something nicer (perhaps a VNC terminal, or if you're really adventerous, an X terminal). Pat -- "The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted BASIC." -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 10:35:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021025153645.79112.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > Reminds me of a couple of AT&T 6300's that I used in an exhibit at the > Field Museum of Natural History here in Chicago. The keyboards... > drilled... all the way through... There were two high-profile incidents at the Physics Department at Ohio State while I was there (or shortly before)... the inventory department is charged with tagging all assets. For the multi-thousand- dollar precision glass grated scale (think ultra-fine diffraction grating), they chose to etch the asset number into its face with HFl. The $50,000 hydraulic press received its metal tag at its thinnest point - the upper hydraulic reservoir (being the only place thin enough to pierce for riveting). The first time they fired it up, I'm told, the rivets shot across the room. Naturally, the reservoir was machined into the main casting, not a replacable item. The inventory department had replace the items out of their own budget (which was none-too-large to begin with). After that, there was an official written policy that no Physics items were to be tagged without approval of/monitoring by the Department. Too expensive to let the drones have their way with drills and acid. (In a related incident, the CIS guys turned away the inventory guys when they showed up with a bag of aluminum tags and a riveter to individually drill and tag all the boards in a 6' rack of modems. I think the CIS dude signed for the bag of tags and stuck them in a drawer). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 10:43:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Anybody heard of an Interac 2400? Message-ID: <20021025154452.81104.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> I have this box, slightly smaller than a mini-tower, with video adjustment pots on the front, a wad of ports on the back (external disk, laser disc ports (serial), touch screen port, and more), several proprietary boards and a 3.5" ST506/ST412 disk inside. It *may* have come with my Sony LPD-1500. I know the Sony came from a pallet lot of interactive kiosks from the "Pharmacy Network" (the disc had 6+ retail drugstore names, and you told the kiosk where it was and it played commercials, interactive games, etc., tuned to your pharmacy). I have found *no* info on Google about it. ISTR it was manufactured right here in Columbus, OH, but I have never heard of it before running across it. Should be from the 1989-1992 timeframe, give or take 3 years. Whether or not it came from the Sony, it seems to be an interactive laser disc controller. Any clues? Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 10:53:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Pet Question - Tools answer In-Reply-To: <009601c27c39$78e35660$56010240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20021025155435.44310.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > Thanks for the tips. I have a logic but working scope right now (there's > one up in MN in one of the storage units). Err?!? Did you leave out a few words there? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 25 11:04:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? In-Reply-To: <20021025152156.88072.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > > On 10/23/02, Sellam Ismail scribbled: > > > > > > > I have some really cool software for my Apple ][ called The Master > > > > Bartender. It has recipes for dozens (hundreds?) of cocktails... > > Is there an Apple II emulator for any PDA? Seems like a winning > combination. Hey, I never thought of that. I have an Apple ][ emulator for my Psion Series 5 (the simulated Apple ][ clocks in at .87 Mhz ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From voyager at hol.gr Fri Oct 25 11:27:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem Message-ID: <002201c27c42$e98d42f0$0100a8c0@voyager4> Hi, It may sound a bit offtopic, but it's near the 10yrs margin :-) I have an external 28.8 Supra FAX modem, the one with the 2 digit green LED display. It's never flashed, and contains one of the very early firmware versions. I recall that Supra had an extensive file list (including manuals in PDFs) for downloading at supra's site, then moved to Diamond, then nothing, they vanished. Could anybody help me locate a mirror of these files? I need the flash files to upgrade it up to 33.6 version (needs several consecutive flashes) and the AT command set that supported (the non standard commands). Cheers George -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021025/2415fed3/attachment.html From patrick at evocative.com Fri Oct 25 11:57:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > US Robotics/3Com made two distinctly different versions of the 33.6 > Sportster (but both use the same supply). One has an Intel flash RAM chip > in it for firmware upgrades (these are 56K X2/V90 capable if you can still > find the proper firmware, it wasn't commonly available). The other has a > ROM in it, and is pretty much stuck at 33.6. I have a number of the ROM > type 33.6 modems somewhere, and I've often wondered if they could be > modified to support the flash chip. Toth, the flash versions also had several different internal CPU/DSP speeds (issue ATI7 command to the modem), and USR was very plain that while the slower models with flash were upgradeable, they would not achieve the connection speeds of their faster siblings. Mine happens to be an older flashable model, and my experience was exactly as USR advertised: the upgraded modem never connected at the same rate as a newer model of the same modem with X2/V90 out-of-the-box. I have a (server) folder of USR stuff, I tend to be a packrat about software, and I've got this goodie called the "3Com Internet Update Wizard" dated 10/4/1999, which seems to be the flash updater (it downloads a flash file from USR to apply). I also found some downloadables for updating at http://www.usr.com/infinity/. --Patrick From spedraja at ono.com Fri Oct 25 12:05:01 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: SIMH HP2100 Simulator question References: <002201c27c42$e98d42f0$0100a8c0@voyager4> Message-ID: <009201c27c49$3230a1e0$24302b3e@sergio> Hello. In http://www.spies.com/~aek/HP/JeffsPaperTapes/ are availables this files: http://www.spies.com/~aek/HP/JeffsPaperTapes/24207.ABS FIXED HEAD DISC/DRUM DIAGNOSTIC BINARY 24207-60001 REV A http://www.spies.com/~aek/HP/JeffsPaperTapes/25123-30.ABS MAGTAPE - DISC UTILITY (DLU) BINARY 25123-60030 CONF. DLU S.A.=2 SW=TTY S.C. PLATTER 1=UPPER 0=LOWER ... for the HP2100 (I suppose). I should like to check the SIMH-HP2100 part dedicated to simulate the Disc and Drum of this computer. Somebody knows how must I manage these utils under the simulator, or some other binaries that could do the work same or better than these ? You can contact off list if you consider it better. Thanks and Greetings. Sergio From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Oct 25 12:21:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Cool Finds at Auction and Thrifts today In-Reply-To: from Patrick Finnegan at "Oct 25, 2 10:26:16 am" Message-ID: <200210251731.KAA10008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > The ones I played with back when I had a job helping to maintain a Windows > Terminal Server installation (from back before I came over to the 'good > side') had at least an ASCII terminal emulator that worked with its serial > port, and possibly also could be used to do telnet without requiring it to > connect to a WTS machine. Their main purpose, however, was to connect to > a WTS host using RDP or Citrix Metaframe. These are the ones I've encountered, too. The Veterans Administration (your tax dollars at work) use them in vast quantities in the VA hospitals for connection to their large Win2k server boxes; as a future medical professional, I've come to detest them :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Dates on calendar are closer than they appear. ----------------------------- From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 25 13:32:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <3DB8C675.8E4B71E9@topnow.com> References: <3DB8C675.8E4B71E9@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3390.4.20.168.211.1035570854.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Questionable taste! > There, *now* we've hit bottom. :-) No, there's still a long way to go. No one has posted a link to the "goatse" page yet. And that isn't intended as a challenge, either. If you haven't seen it yet, trust me, you probably don't want to, but it shows up in the comments on almost every story on Slashdot. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 25 13:35:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) Message-ID: >Questionable taste! > >There, *now* we've hit bottom. :-) Well the taste, according to various women I've talked to, depends somewhat on what you eat.. And some of them like the taste... Heh *puts away shovel after digging past the bottom* Will J _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!  Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 25 13:38:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: HP1000 Card Edge Connectors Message-ID: Yeah the 2nd one does rather look like a V.35 cable, often used with CSU/DSUs and similar crud.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 25 13:43:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Cool Finds at Auction and Thrifts today Message-ID: I am sure I will be *so* flamed for this, but; Terminal Server is a pretty cool thing, our network ran it for years, glitch-free... Now its 2000... I just wish I could find the EISA config floppy to load NT on my AXP 150s, always wanted NT alpha. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 25 13:46:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: 6 free RA81 disks near philly (for pickup only) Message-ID: Damnit, why must you be sooo far away? I could use the drives, and certainly I could use the racks (I have a DECDatasystem sans rack as the owner had made the rack into a toolbench) Will J _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 25 13:50:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) Message-ID: Umm, all I have to say is: Clue-by-four! Kinda reminds me of an engine I saw where the owner had welded a connecting rod back together... Oddly enough, it broke... Stupid people shouldn't breed... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From foo at siconic.com Fri Oct 25 14:04:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > >Questionable taste! > > > >There, *now* we've hit bottom. :-) > > Well the taste, according to various women I've talked to, depends somewhat > on what you eat.. And some of them like the taste... Heh *puts away shovel > after digging past the bottom* That's a myth (the part about what you eat influencing taste). The part about some of them liking the taste is mostly a myth, but there are always exceptions of course. I think we've hit China. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Oct 25 14:49:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: modem help References: <3DB876EA.2050701@arrl.net> Message-ID: <3DB9A053.3060308@jetnet.ab.ca> no wrote: > Sportster 33.6 faxmodem Nope I can't tell , I am using mine right now. :) I took out my win-modem and added a real modem I got cheap. From archer at topnow.com Fri Oct 25 15:06:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) References: Message-ID: <3DB9A496.8A3AACA2@topnow.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > > > >Questionable taste! > > > > > >There, *now* we've hit bottom. :-) > > > > Well the taste, according to various women I've talked to, depends somewhat > > on what you eat.. And some of them like the taste... Heh *puts away shovel > > after digging past the bottom* > > That's a myth (the part about what you eat influencing taste). The part > about some of them liking the taste is mostly a myth, but there are always > exceptions of course. > > I think we've hit China. This whole discussion is getting very hard to swallow. On a closely related note, anyone following the continuing voyages of the Itanic(tm)? Somebody ought to write a 6502 or Z80 simulator in IA-64 just to be suitable perverse. :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Gary.Messick at itt.com Fri Oct 25 15:35:00 2002 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468BA5@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> Hi George, Try: http://www.supra.com/support/diamond/default.asp?menu=support &submenu=Legacy_Modems Gary -----Original Message----- From: Voyager [mailto:voyager@hol.gr] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 11:24 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem Hi, It may sound a bit offtopic, but it's near the 10yrs margin :-) I have an external 28.8 Supra FAX modem, the one with the 2 digit green LED display. It's never flashed, and contains one of the very early firmware versions. I recall that Supra had an extensive file list (including manuals in PDFs) for downloading at supra's site, then moved to Diamond, then nothing, they vanished. Could anybody help me locate a mirror of these files? I need the flash files to upgrade it up to 33.6 version (needs several consecutive flashes) and the AT command set that supported (the non standard commands). Cheers George ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Oct 25 15:39:00 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <3DB876EA.2050701@arrl.net> References: <3DB876EA.2050701@arrl.net> Message-ID: <3DB9BAF7.9070900@arrl.net> no wrote: > I have a couple of (almost classic) external modems missing > the wall warts. Anyone on list running either of these that > can provide the dc voltage/current requirements? Thanks. > > Sportster 33.6 faxmodem > Motorola ModemSurfer 33.6 > > > -nick > > > Thanks to all for the wall wart info. Found some spares here but none 9v. Time to visit the local thrift. -nick From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Oct 25 16:01:01 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DB9C00D.4060702@arrl.net> Patrick Rigney wrote: > >>I have a couple of (almost classic) external modems missing the wall > >>warts. Anyone on list running either of these that can provide the dc > >>voltage/current requirements? Thanks. > >> > >>Sportster 33.6 faxmodem > >>Motorola ModemSurfer 33.6 > > > >The Sportster needs a 9VAC supply (if that is the "standard" white > >Sportster modem anyway). I have tons of these modems also in need of > >supplies. > > > Hmmmm... I have two Sportsters. One is a 33.6 model (product code is > 000839-07), which uses a 9VAC supply, 1000ma, labeled USR part number > 1.015.1286. The other one is an older 28.8 model (product code is > 000839-01), and it uses a 20VAC (!) supply, 500ma, labeled p/n 1.015.1202-B. > Neither modem has any marking stating its power requirements. Sweet. The > plugs on both are very similar, both black banded 5.5mm female, but the > center hole is 2.1mm on the 20V supply, 2.5mm on the 9V supply. Just a > quick peek at the Jameco catalog looks like their equivalent part number for > the 9V supply is 157041 for $5.95 (caveat emptor... I can't confirm this is > a working replacement, it just looks right). > > Patrick > > I picked up 2 of the sportster 33.6's (white). One is for PC, the other is a Mac modem. The PC box has a larger center pin (same as the Motorola), than the Mac modem. Found lots of sportster info on the wweb, but not a word on power supplies. -nick From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Oct 25 16:20:00 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DB9C482.4020006@arrl.net> Patrick Rigney wrote: > >US Robotics/3Com made two distinctly different versions of the 33.6 > >Sportster (but both use the same supply). One has an Intel flash RAM chip > >in it for firmware upgrades (these are 56K X2/V90 capable if you can still > >find the proper firmware, it wasn't commonly available). The other has a > >ROM in it, and is pretty much stuck at 33.6. I have a number of the ROM > >type 33.6 modems somewhere, and I've often wondered if they could be > >modified to support the flash chip. > > > Toth, the flash versions also had several different internal CPU/DSP speeds > (issue ATI7 command to the modem), and USR was very plain that while the > slower models with flash were upgradeable, they would not achieve the > connection speeds of their faster siblings. Mine happens to be an older > flashable model, and my experience was exactly as USR advertised: the > upgraded modem never connected at the same rate as a newer model of the same > modem with X2/V90 out-of-the-box. I have a (server) folder of USR stuff, I > tend to be a packrat about software, and I've got this goodie called the > "3Com Internet Update Wizard" dated 10/4/1999, which seems to be the flash > updater (it downloads a flash file from USR to apply). I also found some > downloadables for updating at http://www.usr.com/infinity/. > > --Patrick > > Good info. Mod won't do much good at this location, though. I'm rural, about 42000' from a CO and have average speeds of about 26.4 with occasional spurts to 28.6. No broadband alternatives on the horizon here. :-( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 25 16:50:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: ID this Apple II card? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021025175515.13778a9c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Can anyone tell me what this card is for? . There's a logo on it but it's so stylized that I can't read it. It looks like "WcAIR". The ribbon cable on it is about four foot long and has a DB-15F connector at the far end. The lage IC on it is an AMI 8038GK. I'm not sure what it is but most of the 8038s that I could find a listing on are octal bus transcievers. I couldn't find a listing for the AMI part so it may be something very different. Most of the ICs have 1984 date codes. Joe From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Oct 25 17:24:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: SIMH HP2100 Simulator question In-Reply-To: "SP"'s message of "Fri, 25 Oct 2002 19:08:52 +0200" References: <002201c27c42$e98d42f0$0100a8c0@voyager4> <009201c27c49$3230a1e0$24302b3e@sergio> Message-ID: <200210252215.g9PMFjbO053938@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "SP" wrote: > In http://www.spies.com/~aek/HP/JeffsPaperTapes/ Al isn't subscribed, so asked me to post that this was a private directory and is now gone. -Frank McConnell From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 17:27:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Televideo 912 terminal problems Message-ID: <33EE52CA-E869-11D6-912E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I just got a Televideo 912 from an ebay auction. It seems to work fine, it feeps, and a cursor appears in the upper left. I have tried to connect it to my Linux computer in place of my regular terminal (a DEC VT100),and it didn't work. I noticed that after the terminal had been on for a minute or so, the cursor disapears from the screen, regardless of wether it was connected to the computer or not. Then, if I turn it off and on again, the cursor reappears, and then goes away again. I have tried setting the baud rate, etc. according to the manual I downloaded from vt100.net. Any suggestions? I really want to get this terminal working. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri Oct 25 17:33:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help Message-ID: <20021025223655.XAPI1333.imf17bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Can anyone help me with settings on this drive? Specifically, drive select, termination, and pinouts on the power connector (J2) would help. Also, the specimen I have has a power switch on the front which appears to be factory-installed. Is this common for this drive? The photos I found on the 'net don't have a switch . . . TIA, Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 25 17:50:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Pet Question In-Reply-To: <018101c27bc1$67a498a0$7b000240@oemcomputer> from "Keys" at Oct 24, 2 07:56:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 851 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021025/acfbd105/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Oct 25 18:00:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > > Had a student in California complain to IBM because I kept calling her > > "ma'am" > > Seriously. > > > > Doc > > > That just boggles the mind. It was sexist, condescending, and insulting. The coordinator who brought me the complaint (she had to, it was IBM procedure) was laughing so hard she couldn't read it to me. AFAIK, the complaint is still on my IBM file, but with a note by the coordinator that it was unfounded and ridiculous, and that the person who registered the complaint had made no attempt to resolve it. Good thing, too. I'd have broke up laighing, and been in _real_ trouble. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 25 18:29:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) In-Reply-To: <20021025153645.79112.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Oct 25, 2 08:36:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 994 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021025/e3eccee5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 25 18:30:04 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Junk Box [was RE: modem help] In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Rigney" at Oct 24, 2 10:22:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 505 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021025/f593b6b5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 25 18:30:39 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Oct 24, 2 07:26:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1238 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021025/369c9ce9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 25 18:31:16 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021025000908.00753a80@pop1.epm.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Oct 25, 2 00:09:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 333 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021025/3c661b8c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 25 18:31:56 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Oct 25, 2 01:52:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1201 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021025/8ae00c01/attachment.ksh From voyager at hol.gr Fri Oct 25 18:33:01 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem References: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468BA5@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: <012a01c27c7e$42aa0f40$0100a8c0@voyager4> Thanks! there was no option on the support screen for the Legacy modems (or it was well enough camouflaged ;-))) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Messick, Gary" > Try: http://www.supra.com/support/diamond/default.asp?menu=support&submenu=Legacy _Modems > From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Oct 25 18:45:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <3DB9C00D.4060702@arrl.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, no wrote: > I picked up 2 of the sportster 33.6's (white). One is for PC, the other is > a Mac modem. The PC box has a larger center pin (same as the Motorola), > than the Mac modem. > > Found lots of sportster info on the wweb, but not a word on power supplies. I just went to 3Com's support site, got full specs for my Courier's wart. Doc From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 18:49:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: ID this Apple II card? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021025175515.13778a9c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: The only thing I can think of would be an Apple RGB monitor. They had a 15 pin connector, and needed a special interface card to work on II+/IIe computers. The IIgs had a built in 15 pin port (female) on the board to connect one to. I'm not sure if that's what that card is for, but that is what it looks like to me. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 05:55 PM, Joe wrote: > Can anyone tell me what this card is for? > . There's a logo on it > but it's so stylized that I can't read it. It looks like "WcAIR". The > ribbon cable on it is about four foot long and has a DB-15F connector > at the far end. The lage IC on it is an AMI 8038GK. I'm not sure what > it is but most of the 8038s that I could find a listing on are octal > bus transcievers. I couldn't find a listing for the AMI part so it may > be something very different. Most of the ICs have 1984 date codes. > > Joe > From donm at cts.com Fri Oct 25 18:54:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help In-Reply-To: <20021025223655.XAPI1333.imf17bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Can anyone help me with settings on this drive? > > Specifically, drive select, termination, and pinouts on the power connector > (J2) would help. Drive select - a choice of 1/2/3 - is determined by the programmable shunt at location 1F. Installing a DIP switch is a much handier means of selection. Configured for multiple drive installation, MX should be open, HS shorted, and only the desired DSx shorted. Termination is by a 150Ohm resistor DIP. The power connector is the same as used on more modern 5.25" floppy drives with pin-1 at 12VDC, pin-2 12V return, pin-3 5V return, and pin-4 5VDC. Pin one is identified on the component side of the PCB. > Also, the specimen I have has a power switch on the front which appears to > be factory-installed. Is this common for this drive? The photos I found > on the 'net don't have a switch . . . Sounds like a skillful add-on. - don > TIA, > > Glen > 0/0 > > If I am not for myself, who will be for me? > And if not now, when? > -- Pirkei Avot > > From wonko at 4amlunch.net Fri Oct 25 19:01:00 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: 6 free RA81 disks near philly (for pickup only) In-Reply-To: <20021025144220.69514.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com>; from erd_6502@yahoo.com on Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 07:42:20AM -0700 References: <20021025050822.A1728947@marvin.4amlunch.net> <20021025144220.69514.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021025200223.D1728947@marvin.4amlunch.net> On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 07:42:20AM -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Dave McGuire and I had the good fortune of being able to rescue that lot > > of PDP-11/70 kit from Williamsport, PA. > > Nice. Got any spare toggle-switch front panels? :-) i wish. they had the remote console on them, but we got lucky and the toggle-switch front panels were in the remote console boxes, so we could convert them back. ;) > > in there was a pile... of 6 RA81 disks. > > > > come take them, they are under a tarp in my driveway. come before it > > snows. > > Come before vandals leave *more* of them in the pile. which is why i havn't told any of you where i live yet. :) -brian -- i'm trying to use a windows shell function to move a directory... and it reports that it failed with the error "the operation completed successfully" From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Oct 25 19:15:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > Had a student in California complain to IBM because I kept calling her > > "ma'am" > > Seriously. > > How *D*A*R*E* you use a term of RESPECT with me!? > > LOL It's apparent that you've spent time in California. :) Doc From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Oct 25 19:20:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > >There, *now* we've hit bottom. :-) >> > >I think we've hit China. Not without some pictures.... From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Oct 25 19:21:56 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <3DB9BAF7.9070900@arrl.net> References: <3DB876EA.2050701@arrl.net> <3DB9BAF7.9070900@arrl.net> Message-ID: >no wrote: > >>I have a couple of (almost classic) external modems missing >>the wall warts. Anyone on list running either of these that >>can provide the dc voltage/current requirements? Thanks. >> >>Sportster 33.6 faxmodem >>Motorola ModemSurfer 33.6 >> >> >>-nick >> >> >Thanks to all for the wall wart info. Found some spares >here but none 9v. Time to visit the local thrift. > >-nick Just FYI there were maybe a half a dozen totally different internally versions of the 33.6 sportsters, some AC, some DC, some 9v, some 12v. etc etc. you have to go by like the first 8 digits of the serial number to know which modem you have. USR did this very clever trick, they made a GREAT modem, worked excellent, and they shipped off a batch to all the reviewers, then immediately gutted the design and went through a half dozen different cost reductions for the actual production units. From voyager at hol.gr Fri Oct 25 19:30:01 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem References: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468BA5@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> <012a01c27c7e$42aa0f40$0100a8c0@voyager4> Message-ID: <016d01c27c86$81256a50$0100a8c0@voyager4> After a more detailed examination, nothing.... There are no manuals, even in TXT format, and only the very latest version of the Firmware. My firmware is too old, and it needs to be chain-flashed through several different releases in order to be able to accept the only version available. **HEEEEELP** > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Messick, Gary" > > Try: > http://www.supra.com/support/diamond/default.asp?menu=support&submenu=Legacy > _Modems > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Voyager Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 11:24 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem Hi, It may sound a bit offtopic, but it's near the 10yrs margin :-) I have an external 28.8 Supra FAX modem, the one with the 2 digit green LED display. It's never flashed, and contains one of the very early firmware versions. I recall that Supra had an extensive file list (including manuals in PDFs) for downloading at supra's site, then moved to Diamond, then nothing, they vanished. Could anybody help me locate a mirror of these files? I need the flash files to upgrade it up to 33.6 version (needs several consecutive flashes) and the AT command set that supported (the non standard commands). Cheers George From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Oct 25 20:11:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:17 2005 Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem In-Reply-To: <002201c27c42$e98d42f0$0100a8c0@voyager4> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > I have an external 28.8 Supra FAX modem, the one with the 2 digit green > LED display. It's never flashed, and contains one of the very early > firmware versions. I recall that Supra had an extensive file list > (including manuals in PDFs) for downloading at supra's site, then moved > to Diamond, then nothing, they vanished. Diamond has done away with lots of things, including support/info for many of the early products that "made" Diamond. I think I still have the book for the Supra 28.8 if there is something you are looking for in particular. > Could anybody help me locate a mirror of these files? I need the flash > files to upgrade it up to 33.6 version (needs several consecutive > flashes) and the AT command set that supported (the non standard > commands). If you find the files, let me know too. I also have some of these modems... -Toth From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 20:58:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: Televideo 912 terminal problems In-Reply-To: <33EE52CA-E869-11D6-912E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, I was searching on Richard Shuford's wonderful website about video terminals, and I came across a bit of useful information. Apparently the power supplies and picture tubes are interchangeable between Televideo 910, 910+, 912, 912C, 920, 925 and 950 terminals. I had a 950 in the basement with a power supply problem, so I pulled the logic board out and stuck it in the 912, and connected the 950's external keyboard. It worked perfectly. This means there is something wrong with the 912 logic board. I closely inspected the 912 board, cleaned the dust off and reseated the socketed chips (the EPROM chip seemed to have some bent pins), but it didn't help. I noticed that the 912 board appears to have been modified. One or two things look like factory changes. The others look home hacked. Here are the changes that I can see: Those that look factory made: Green jumper wires on the bottom are connected between: Pin 1 and 4 of chip A77, an LS74 Pin 4 of chip A28, an LS74, and pin 8 of A44, an LS04 Pin 9 of A44, an LS04, and Pin and a solder point to the right of A51 Those that look home hacked: Cut traces on the top W8 Pin 11 of A77, an LS74 and Pin 3 of A28, an LS74 W28 W26 W6 seems to have a clumsy looking scrap of wire bridging it. W31, W32, W33, W34 look as if something was desoldered between all four The printer port seems to have been replaced or removed at time, judging from the brownish colored solder joints. The same goes for the S3 (printer baud rate) dip switch block. There are four white empty 18 pin DIP sockets on the right hand side of the board (RAM upgrade option?) There may be other modifications, but that was all I could find. Any ideas? Was this some upgrade, or was there supposed to be another module with this? Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 06:29 PM, Sark wrote: > I just got a Televideo 912 from an ebay auction. It seems to work > fine, it feeps, and a cursor appears in the upper left. I have tried > to connect it to my Linux computer in place of my regular terminal (a > DEC VT100),and it didn't work. I noticed that after the terminal had > been on for a minute or so, the cursor disapears from the screen, > regardless of wether it was connected to the computer or not. Then, if > I turn it off and on again, the cursor reappears, and then goes away > again. I have tried setting the baud rate, etc. according to the > manual I downloaded from vt100.net. Any suggestions? I really want to > get this terminal working. > > Thanks! > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Oct 25 21:22:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help In-Reply-To: <20021025223655.XAPI1333.imf17bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Can anyone help me with settings on this drive? > Specifically, drive select, termination, and pinouts on the power connector > (J2) would help. Same as the other 5.25" drives. That's why they are called "SA400 interface". Such as drive selects on pins 10, 12, 14, . . . But some newer drives have added SIDE SELECT (for double sided drives), and "density" for multi-media drives, such as 1.2M. Termination is required on the last drive on the cable. Lack of proper termination can make for flaky operation, but will not generally prevent it from working. Power connection isthe same as all other (well, ALMOST all) 5.25" drives. The SA400 is a 48TPI, 35 track drive. Most drives that replaced it added another 5 tracks. > Also, the specimen I have has a power switch on the front which appears to > be factory-installed. Is this common for this drive? The photos I found > on the 'net don't have a switch . . . I've never seen a factory switch on the front of one. Are you sure that that wasn't a user added switch, such as one to override the write-protect for flippies? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Oct 25 21:40:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > There are certainly some really bizarre ones. The Victor 9000 (aka > > Sirius) is MUCH weirder than the Rainbow. > The Sirius is just plain weird in just about every respect, not just the > disk cotnroller. :-) But even it isn't the weirdest machine. The Lisa's floppy drive was weirder than the Victor 9000's. > > But the Rainbow MS-DOS format is truly unique. It is the only one that > > I've seen that doesn't have the DIRectory on track 0. > Now that I didn't know. Where did they put it? In the middle, on track 39 > or 40? No, just a track or so in from the edge. IIRC, track 1 instead of track 0. I guess that that was to put it in the same place as their CP/M DIRectory. There is a field (don't remember which) in the MS-DOS "BIOS Parameter Block" for "hidden" or "reserved" extra sectors. From archer at topnow.com Fri Oct 25 21:47:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: modem help References: Message-ID: <3DBA0283.F49F39E0@topnow.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > That sportster needs 9VAC. Older sportsters need 12VAC. > > I don't know about the Motorola. > > FWIW, the 'AC' is important. You can't use a DC-output adapter. Many > modems (and other devices with RS232 ports) produce both a +ve and -ve > supply from the AC input for the RS232 buffers (and maybe the analogue > circuitry too). > > -tony Always thought that was rather clever . Two half-wave circuits with diodes conducting in opposite cycles has to be the cheapest way to get bipolar supplies. These days, it seems everyone's using MAX232s instead to get the required negative supply. Which is good since the other solution rules out battery ops. And everything cool is goin' portable. Look at the SX-64 :) -- Ross From donm at cts.com Fri Oct 25 23:52:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: What have I got? was: Re: [OT?] Supra FaxModem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > (including manuals in PDFs) for downloading at supra's site, then moved > > to Diamond, then nothing, they vanished. > > Diamond has done away with lots of things, including support/info for many > of the early products that "made" Diamond. Speaking of Diamond, I picked up a little gadget the other day and am in a quandry as to its identity and purpose. I will try a little ASCII art(?) to see if I can convey its appearance. ___ 15 pin micro edge connector | ______ \ | \ \| \______ _| |_ | | | | |_| |_| / |______________| \ / \_ DB25M |_ DB25F The body is equipped with jack screws indicating that the male end is to mate with some upstream unit. The micro edge connector cable is symmetrical with the same female connector at each end and is about four feet long. The only identification on the thing is the word "DiAMOND" molded into the top of the body. Any one ever seen such a critter and can give a brief explanation of its function? Thanks. - don From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sat Oct 26 00:08:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: What have I got? was: Re: [OT?] Supra FaxModem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1035608906.6245.0.camel@supermicro> I bet it's for a pair of those shutter glasses that connect through the parallel port. On Sat, 2002-10-26 at 00:54, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > (including manuals in PDFs) for downloading at supra's site, then moved > > > to Diamond, then nothing, they vanished. > > > > Diamond has done away with lots of things, including support/info for many > > of the early products that "made" Diamond. > > Speaking of Diamond, I picked up a little gadget the other day and am in > a quandry as to its identity and purpose. I will try a little ASCII > art(?) to see if I can convey its appearance. > > ___ 15 pin micro edge connector > | ______ > \ | \ > \| \______ > _| |_ > | | | | > |_| |_| > / |______________| \ > / \_ DB25M > |_ DB25F > > The body is equipped with jack screws indicating that the male end is to > mate with some upstream unit. The micro edge connector cable is > symmetrical with the same female connector at each end and is about four > feet long. The only identification on the thing is the word "DiAMOND" > molded into the top of the body. > > Any one ever seen such a critter and can give a brief explanation of its > function? > > Thanks. > - don > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Oct 26 00:20:01 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > > > Had a student in California complain to IBM because I kept calling her > > > "ma'am" > > > Seriously. > > > > How *D*A*R*E* you use a term of RESPECT with me!? > > > > LOL > > It's apparent that you've spent time in California. :) > > Doc > So I take it that, "Shut up bitch. If I wanted your opinion, I'd give it to you!" is more acceptable? Ye gods. :) g. From voyager at hol.gr Sat Oct 26 03:44:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem References: Message-ID: <003d01c27ccb$710455b0$0100a8c0@voyager4> There were a few pages with the AT commands. I need to have the S registers at least, for example what bits in what register must be se to change the 2 digit display, or activate the assymetrix transmition etc. Would it be easy to scan it for me? I was almost sure that I had saved all the files from Supra (then Diamond) site, but I could not find it anyplace :( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 4:13 AM Subject: Re: [OT?] Supra FaxModem > On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > > > I have an external 28.8 Supra FAX modem, the one with the 2 digit green > > LED display. It's never flashed, and contains one of the very early > > firmware versions. I recall that Supra had an extensive file list > > (including manuals in PDFs) for downloading at supra's site, then moved > > to Diamond, then nothing, they vanished. > > Diamond has done away with lots of things, including support/info for many > of the early products that "made" Diamond. > > I think I still have the book for the Supra 28.8 if there is something you > are looking for in particular. > > > Could anybody help me locate a mirror of these files? I need the flash > > files to upgrade it up to 33.6 version (needs several consecutive > > flashes) and the AT command set that supported (the non standard > > commands). > > If you find the files, let me know too. I also have some of these > modems... > > -Toth > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Oct 26 04:52:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks)" (Oct 26, 0:12) References: Message-ID: <10210261041.ZM11402@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 26, 0:12, Tony Duell wrote: > I'm not going to say where it happened, but I remember an incident where > the Stores engraged the ID number onto (delicate) winchester drive HDAs > with a Dremel-like tool. Needless to say the number of bad blocks was > somewhat rediculous! The Stores in a certain college where I once worked insisted on checking every delivery to make sure it was complete. I couldn't undertand why one or two ICs in several orders were faulty, until I realised they took them all out of the tubes to count them :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From spc at conman.org Sat Oct 26 09:39:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: hp300 for free in Portland, OR (fwd) Message-ID: <200210261440.KAA22048@conman.org> Someone from another mailing list I'm on is giving away a stack of HP300 equipment. Please contact the person---I'm just passing on the information. -spc Forwarded message: > From port-hp300-owner-spc=conman.org@netbsd.org Fri Oct 25 16:48:44 2002 > Delivered-To: port-hp300@netbsd.org > Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:48:30 -0700 (PDT) > From: Zetan Drableg > To: port-hp300@netbsd.org > Subject: hp300 for free in Portland, OR > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Sender: port-hp300-owner@netbsd.org > Precedence: list > > Hello friends, > > It is time I get rid of my stack of hp300 equipment. > There's a 380, a 400, and a bunch of lower-than-380 > boards & cases available. I know the 380 & 400 work great. > > These items aren't really shippable because of weight, > so I suppose this only applies to Portland/Seattle/SanFran > areas. > > Gotta get rid of them by the end of the month, so lemme know > quick! > > thanx > nate > > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Oct 26 10:01:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <3DBA0283.F49F39E0@topnow.com> References: <3DBA0283.F49F39E0@topnow.com> Message-ID: <32812.64.169.63.74.1035644596.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ross Archer wrote: > Two half-wave circuits with diodes conducting in opposite > cycles has to be the cheapest way to get bipolar supplies. Unless you have AC with a center tap, how is "two half-wave circuites with diodes conducting in opposite cycles" different than one full-wave rectifier? Maybe I don't understand how your suggesting it would be wired? Perhaps some ASCII art would help. (Doesn't have to be fancy.) Thanks, Eric From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Oct 26 10:27:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <32812.64.169.63.74.1035644596.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Ross Archer wrote: > > Two half-wave circuits with diodes conducting in opposite > > cycles has to be the cheapest way to get bipolar supplies. > > Unless you have AC with a center tap, how is "two half-wave > circuites with diodes conducting in opposite cycles" different > than one full-wave rectifier? Maybe I don't understand how > your suggesting it would be wired? Perhaps some ASCII art > would help. (Doesn't have to be fancy.) > > Thanks, > Eric > > > > lead 1 of transformer is ground, lead 2 of tranformer goes to anode of diode A and cathode of diode B + 1/2 wave power comes from cathode of diode A - 1/2 wave power comes from anode of diode B The diodes conduct on opposite cycles (like a full wave centertap supply) but in this case one diode generates the + supply and the other generates the - supply... Peter Wallace From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 26 10:28:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:18 2005 Subject: What have I got? was: Re: [OT?] Supra FaxModem In-Reply-To: <1035608906.6245.0.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <20021026153000.79547.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Jeffrey H. Ingber" wrote: > I bet it's for a pair of those shutter glasses that connect through the > parallel port. From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Oct 26 11:22:01 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:19 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) In-Reply-To: <10210261041.ZM11402@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > The Stores in a certain college where I once worked insisted on checking > every delivery to make sure it was complete. I couldn't undertand why one > or two ICs in several orders were faulty, until I realised they took them > all out of the tubes to count them :-( > Intel or AMD had a similar problem (huge yield problems) because of an overzealous clerk counting silicon wafers by hand. By *touching* them. g. From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Oct 26 11:40:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:19 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) In-Reply-To: References: <10210261041.ZM11402@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021026124947.021482f0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Gene Buckle may have mentioned these words: > > The Stores in a certain college where I once worked insisted on checking > > every delivery to make sure it was complete. I couldn't undertand why one > > or two ICs in several orders were faulty, until I realised they took them > > all out of the tubes to count them :-( > > >Intel or AMD had a similar problem (huge yield problems) because of an >overzealous clerk counting silicon wafers by hand. By *touching* them. I'm surprised that Intel didn't try to blame the Pentium FDIV bug on that... It still cracks me up that according to Intel I'm a 48,000-year-old man... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Oct 26 11:53:00 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:19 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021026124947.021482f0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: > > > or two ICs in several orders were faulty, until I realised they took them > > > all out of the tubes to count them :-( > > > > >Intel or AMD had a similar problem (huge yield problems) because of an > >overzealous clerk counting silicon wafers by hand. By *touching* them. > > I'm surprised that Intel didn't try to blame the Pentium FDIV bug on that... > This supposedly happened sometime in the late 70's early 80's. > It still cracks me up that according to Intel I'm a 48,000-year-old man... ;-) Oh do tell. :) g. From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Oct 26 11:54:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:19 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) References: <10210261041.ZM11402@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20021026124947.021482f0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3DBAC91B.1010406@eoni.com> Make Lemon Meringue Pie! Roger Merchberger wrote: > > What do you do when Life gives you lemons, > and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? > > . > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Oct 26 12:06:01 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:19 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <889AFAEF-E905-11D6-912E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> > > The same Stores also once such their ID plate on the bottom of a mouse, > over the ball (!). OK, that one didn't do any real damage, but... > A similar thing happened where I work. They etched the name into the bottom of the mice on several Macintosh computers... But the tool they used created raised edges around the letters, so therefore the mice wouldn't work very well, because it would catch and drag on the mousemat. I've also seen a similar thing happen, where they used a soldering iron to melt the ball covers in place on the Macintosh mice, and this dragged on the mousemat even worse, and the mice soon became useless junk because the mechanism got so dirty it wouldn't work. To fix these, we had to unscrew the top cover of the mouse and disassemble it to clean it. It was a real pain. And they thought people would steal mouse balls WHY? Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Oct 26 12:12:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:19 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) In-Reply-To: <889AFAEF-E905-11D6-912E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Sark wrote: > > A similar thing happened where I work. They etched the name into the > bottom of the mice on several Macintosh computers... But the tool they > used created raised edges around the letters, so therefore the mice > wouldn't work very well, because it would catch and drag on the > mousemat. I've also seen a similar thing happen, where they used a > soldering iron to melt the ball covers in place on the Macintosh mice, > and this dragged on the mousemat even worse, and the mice soon became > useless junk because the mechanism got so dirty it wouldn't work. To > fix these, we had to unscrew the top cover of the mouse and disassemble > it to clean it. It was a real pain. And they thought people would steal > mouse balls WHY? Because people steal mouse balls. A friend works in a major computer chain store, and I used to work for University of Texas, in IT. Keeping balls in the mice is a huge headache. Damn if I know why anyone wants them, though. Doc From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Oct 26 12:24:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:19 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021026124947.021482f0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021026130820.021033f8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Gene Buckle may have mentioned these words: > > I'm surprised that Intel didn't try to blame the Pentium FDIV bug on > that... > > >This supposedly happened sometime in the late 70's early 80's. As long as the Pentium was on the drawing board... That could've too! (Hell, the Itanic is almost on topic already... ;-) > > It still cracks me up that according to Intel I'm a 48,000-year-old > man... ;-) > >Oh do tell. :) One of Intel's "excuses" before actually acquiescing and replacing the original Pentiums was that "under normal computing use [1], a person would only trigger the bug once every 24,000 years..." I had 2 separate Autocad files that when rendered in 3-D wouldn't render right on a buggy Pentium but would render fine on a non-buggy Pentium or a 486. They weren't anything mongo, either... one was a 3-D rendition of a door canopy, and the other was a simple desk with a couple of shelves. When rendered, the center shelf on the desk jutted out 4 or 5 inches past the desk on the buggy pentium! We couldn't figure out what the Hades was wrong with my drawing file, until I rendered it on my workstation (an old bodged-up 486-33). Granted, it took a very long time to do it [2], but both files rendered fine on that old beast, but rendered wrong on 3 different brand new pentium-based machines. Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] as in, not *trying* to execute special code or computations that would prove the bug exists; like doing that special Calculator routine that would spit out wrong numbers... [2] Set up job, go get lunch (15-20 minutes). See one error, make change, set up job, go do 4-5 services calls... etc... Granted, that was better than rendering on my old 386sx-16 (With Math-Co) - Set up job, go make dinner, eat dinner, watch a couple hours of TV... check job, make one change, set up job, go to bed.... Took me all weekend to do a job that I could have done in 30 minutes on my 700Mhz (dual 350's) Pentium-2 Machine... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Oct 26 12:27:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:19 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Because people steal mouse balls. A friend works in a major computer chain store, and I used to work for University of Texas, in IT. Keeping balls in the mice is a huge headache. Damn if I know why anyone wants them, though." Makes quite an argument for optical mice, doesn't it? --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Doc Shipley Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 13:14 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Sark wrote: > > A similar thing happened where I work. They etched the name into the > bottom of the mice on several Macintosh computers... But the tool they > used created raised edges around the letters, so therefore the mice > wouldn't work very well, because it would catch and drag on the > mousemat. I've also seen a similar thing happen, where they used a > soldering iron to melt the ball covers in place on the Macintosh mice, > and this dragged on the mousemat even worse, and the mice soon became > useless junk because the mechanism got so dirty it wouldn't work. To > fix these, we had to unscrew the top cover of the mouse and disassemble > it to clean it. It was a real pain. And they thought people would steal > mouse balls WHY? Because people steal mouse balls. A friend works in a major computer chain store, and I used to work for University of Texas, in IT. Keeping balls in the mice is a huge headache. Damn if I know why anyone wants them, though. Doc From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Oct 26 12:33:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:19 2005 Subject: Ambulatory mouse balls (was: Destructive labelling In-Reply-To: <889AFAEF-E905-11D6-912E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021026132638.02118a30@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Sark may have mentioned these words: >>The same Stores also once such their ID plate on the bottom of a mouse, >>over the ball (!). OK, that one didn't do any real damage, but... > >A similar thing happened where I work. They etched the name into the >bottom of the mice on several Macintosh computers... But the tool they >used created raised edges around the letters, so therefore the mice >wouldn't work very well, because it would catch and drag on the mousemat. >I've also seen a similar thing happen, where they used a soldering iron >to melt the ball covers in place on the Macintosh mice, and this dragged >on the mousemat even worse, and the mice soon became useless junk because >the mechanism got so dirty it wouldn't work. To fix these, we had to >unscrew the top cover of the mouse and disassemble it to clean it. It was >a real pain. And they thought people would steal mouse balls WHY? That's an easy one... Way back when, most mouse balls were just solid rubber and/or plastic... and they sucked. A few of the "good" mice (that ran $50+ at the time) had the steel-ball-covered-with-rubber balls and were 1) rather rare, and 2) highly sought after. When I was a tech, when one of the "good mice" died horribly, the first thing I did was grab the heavier ball before it hit "File 13." Over the next few months, as the next few "good mice" died, I *made sure* I had at least a few spares, because on occasion (when my mouse didn't work nearly so well) I found my nice, heavy, steel-core mouse ball had "grown legs"... :-/ I had to get rather "inventive" on where to hide my spares so they didn't disappear, either... :-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Oct 26 13:13:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:19 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: References: <32812.64.169.63.74.1035644596.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <2134.4.20.168.211.1035656134.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Peter Wallace wrote: > lead 1 of transformer is ground, > lead 2 of tranformer goes to anode of diode A and cathode of diode B + > 1/2 wave power comes from cathode of diode A > - 1/2 wave power comes from anode of diode B > > The diodes conduct on opposite cycles (like a full wave centertap > supply) but in this case one diode generates the + supply and the other > generates the - supply... Thanks, I think I understand now. Why are you on the list instead of down here at the Vintage Computer Festival? :-) (Actually I'm not there yet myself. I'm waiting for the color printer at work to disgorge a few more pages, then I'll head over.) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 26 13:35:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <3DBA0283.F49F39E0@topnow.com> from "Ross Archer" at Oct 25, 2 07:48:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1455 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021026/6bb2b544/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 26 13:38:48 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Oct 25, 2 07:41:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1548 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021026/52eba38e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 26 13:42:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <32812.64.169.63.74.1035644596.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Oct 26, 2 08:03:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1374 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021026/fb88121b/attachment.ksh From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Oct 26 14:13:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help Message-ID: <20021026191641.KOAC27186.imf03bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Don Maslin > Drive select - a choice of 1/2/3 - is determined by the programmable > shunt at location 1F. Installing a DIP switch is a much handier means > of selection. Configured for multiple drive installation, MX should be > open, HS shorted, and only the desired DSx shorted. Okay, that's clear. > Termination is by a 150Ohm resistor DIP. Thanks. There's an empty 14-pin DIP socket adjacent to the above-mentioned shunt, so I'd guess this is drive is missing the terminator. > The power connector is the same as used on more modern 5.25" floppy > drives with pin-1 at 12VDC, pin-2 12V return, pin-3 5V return, and pin-4 > 5VDC. Pin one is identified on the component side of the PCB. Thanks again, this drive does not have a "standard" power connector such as is found on late-model 5.25" drives -- it only has a four-pin header. Not being familiar with the SA400, I wasn't sure if this header was normal for this drive, or if it was some user's modification. Fred Cisin wrote: > Termination is required on the last drive on the cable. Lack of proper > termination can make for flaky operation, but will not generally > prevent it from working. Sure, but I didn't know the details of the terminator since it's missing on this drive. > I've never seen a factory switch on the front of one. Are you sure that > that wasn't a user added switch, such as one to override the write-protect > for flippies? Not sure at all, but it certainly is professional-looking. Due to my inexperience, I've never seen an SA400 before and I thought there might have been variations. Thanks to both of you for the information. Glen 0/0 From jim at jkearney.com Sat Oct 26 14:39:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: modem help References: Message-ID: <00cd01c27d27$a98f1bc0$1001090a@xpace.net> > Very... The only full-wave rectifier you can get without a centre-tapped >input is a bridge, and that doesn't have a common connection between > input and output for one thing. It also only gives a single polarity > output. ... > Basically 2 half-wave rectifiers, each accepting one half of the AC input There is a useful way to use a bridge to do this. It wastes half of it, but it's a single component that doesn't need its leads formed instead of two that do, so I often use it. Probably not cost effective for mass production, though. +--------+ | | -----| ~ + |-------+---------------- +V | | | --*--| ~ - |-------(----+----------- -V | | | _|_+ _|_- | +--------+ ___ ___ | | - | + +-------------------+----+----------- gnd From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Oct 26 14:47:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: Fw: Free Microvax IIs in San Diego, CA Message-ID: <00db01c27d28$c8e8a990$7800a8c0@george> As seen in c.o.v-- too far for me to drive! Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Young" Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms,comp.unix.ultrix,comp.sys.vms Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 2:27 PM Subject: Free Microvax IIs in San Diego, CA > I have 3 Microvax IIs in the San Diego, California area that need to find > a new home. They are the Q2, Q3, and Q5 models (pedistal/rack mount, > rolling tower like enclosure, and short rack with RA81). Unfortunately I > don't have time to deal with shipping or parting them out. If you are > near the San Diego area and would like to pick them up, please send mail to: > > s h @ . > p o c n > a l o e > m e x t > > Thanks, > Bill Young From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Oct 26 14:48:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: Fw: VAX 7000/610 available, Cambridge MA USA Message-ID: <00e001c27d28$e399b360$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Stone" To: Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 6:24 PM Subject: VAX 7000/610 available, Cambridge MA USA > A complete VAX 7000/610 system, working when removed from service, > will be junked next week. It includes three 19" rack cabinets; > one looks like the CPU, another has a TZ857 tape drive, TSZ07 (9-track) > tape drive, and a pair of RA92 disks. The third cabinet as three > BA350SB StorageWorks disk array units full of, I think, 2Gb drives. > > You must come get it. It's on a ground-level loading dock right now, so > a truck with a lift gate would be helpful. > > Please reply to me if you're seriously interested. This is a big > machine that draws a lot of power, so be sure you know what you're > getting into. > > -- Larry > > (happily running 1.6 on a VAXstation 4000/60) From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Oct 26 15:01:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <00cd01c27d27$a98f1bc0$1001090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: It should be stated (and obvious) that you can ONLY safely do this with a transformer coupled supply. Otherwise you potentially have the classic "hot chassis" condition. And be sure to consider the effect on things if you were to build a device that had a serial connection or somesuch powered off the same transformer. This technique works fine, but is not without peril if you don't fully understand what you're doing. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jim Kearney Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 15:41 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: modem help > Very... The only full-wave rectifier you can get without a centre-tapped >input is a bridge, and that doesn't have a common connection between > input and output for one thing. It also only gives a single polarity > output. ... > Basically 2 half-wave rectifiers, each accepting one half of the AC input There is a useful way to use a bridge to do this. It wastes half of it, but it's a single component that doesn't need its leads formed instead of two that do, so I often use it. Probably not cost effective for mass production, though. +--------+ | | -----| ~ + |-------+---------------- +V | | | --*--| ~ - |-------(----+----------- -V | | | _|_+ _|_- | +--------+ ___ ___ | | - | + +-------------------+----+----------- gnd From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 26 16:07:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <00cd01c27d27$a98f1bc0$1001090a@xpace.net> from "Jim Kearney" at Oct 26, 2 03:41:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1942 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021026/1e8bc385/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Oct 26 16:12:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Sark wrote: > > > And they thought people would steal mouse balls WHY? > > Because people steal mouse balls. A friend works in a major computer > chain store, and I used to work for University of Texas, in IT. > Keeping balls in the mice is a huge headache. Damn if I know why anyone > wants them, though. It isn't just the larger companies or universities that have a problem with this either. At one local school where I maintain dozens of older systems, some years the kids steal the balls out of the mice. The year before last, some kid even stole 6-8 mice (and switched 4 of them out with dead junk mice. This year I'm planning to ty-wrap the cables to something behind the systems so that won't happen again. I sure wish I could find a lifetime supply of the older 3 button PS/2 Logitech mice. I've found those things to be nearly indestructible in a school, and the younger kids will usually find a way to break anything... -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Oct 26 16:16:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem In-Reply-To: <003d01c27ccb$710455b0$0100a8c0@voyager4> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > There were a few pages with the AT commands. I need to have the S > registers at least, for example what bits in what register must be se to > change the 2 digit display, or activate the assymetrix transmition etc. I'll look today and see if I still have it. I might also be thinking of the 14.4 manual, and if so, I'd imagine most of the S registers would be the same. > Would it be easy to scan it for me? Not really, but I've been needing to set a scanner back up for some other small bits anyway. > I was almost sure that I had saved all the files from Supra (then > Diamond) site, but I could not find it anyplace :( Have you tried contacting anyone at Diamond? I've been tempted to call them, but haven't found the time yet. -Toth From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sat Oct 26 18:37:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: References: <3DBA0283.F49F39E0@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021026193515.0074d5b0@pop1.epm.net.co> At 06:54 PM 10/26/02 +0100, you wrote: >One of the most annoying instances of this is the HP82164 HPIL-RS232 >interface. It runs off the standard HP 8V transformer (AC output). -snip- >This means, of course that you _must_ use an AC input for this device. >Which makes it next to impossible to run off batteries. A pity, since >having a portable HPIL-RS232 interface would be useful sometimes. Yes. I have a clone of the HP82164 made by Handheld Products which is totally portable, with internal NiCd batteries. Even the form factor is identical. Unfortunately, it is not working right now, as the batteries spilled and the spill ate some traces. I'll have to get to fixing it some time... carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Oct 26 19:18:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) In-Reply-To: Tothwolf "Re: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks)" (Oct 26, 16:14) References: Message-ID: <10210270120.ZM11865@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 26, 16:14, Tothwolf wrote: > On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Sark wrote: > > > > > And they thought people would steal mouse balls WHY? > > > > Because people steal mouse balls. A friend works in a major computer > > chain store, and I used to work for University of Texas, in IT. > It isn't just the larger companies or universities that have a problem > with this either. At one local school where I maintain dozens of older > systems, some years the kids steal the balls out of the mice. The year > before last, some kid even stole 6-8 mice (and switched 4 of them out with > dead junk mice. This year I'm planning to ty-wrap the cables to something > behind the systems so that won't happen again. I sure wish I could find a > lifetime supply of the older 3 button PS/2 Logitech mice. I've found those > things to be nearly indestructible in a school, and the younger kids will > usually find a way to break anything... Talking of breaking, and mouse balls, you might be amused by the story of the blackboard and the mouse ball. See the URL below. Oh, and vuft cricket (mentioned on the same page) is played with the sort of ball you commonly find near a PC and the sort of bat you commonly find in front of the same PC (you know, the one with the clicky top surface). http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~bjmi100/uni%20history/compsci.html -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jss at subatomix.com Sat Oct 26 19:37:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: Lost digests In-Reply-To: <000501c27bbd$ccba6c00$5b4a3dcf@msed03> References: <000501c27bbd$ccba6c00$5b4a3dcf@msed03> Message-ID: <13259365287.20021026193853@subatomix.com> On Thursday, October 24, 2002, M H Stein wrote: > I didn't realize that my mailbox had filled up, so I missed a few digests; > is it possible to retrieve past digests with Mailman as it was with the > previous system? I don't know. Would it be sufficient to read the archive? There's a link on the list information page: http://www.classiccmp.org/list.html -- Jeffrey Sharp From bellmfg at erols.com Sat Oct 26 20:26:25 2002 From: bellmfg at erols.com (Bernie Daraz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: decitek reader Message-ID: <000801c27a06$0ef19120$3ffd3ad0@bernie> Hello, I don't believe you are still looking but I have manuals for the 262 series. Regards, Bernie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021026/53e93d1c/attachment.html From sieler at allegro.com Sat Oct 26 20:28:47 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: Dauphin DTR-1 In-Reply-To: <3DB424E3.20566.6B3ABF0@localhost> References: <3.0.6.16.20021020122312.432fcca4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DB55E90.1278.CA010D@localhost> Re: > Hi Joe. Damn I've been looking for one of those at a reasonable price for over > a year now. ! There was/is a DTR- 1 mailing list. Try > > I went to a small local hamfest yesterday and picked up a DTR-1. It's complete As of April of this year, DTR-1's (with network card and floppy drive) were available from mjjacobson@mindspring.com for about $100. I ordered one from him, and it arrived, and I'm a happy camper. I'd earlier found a DTR-1 without a pen at a swapmeet for $5. I looked around for a replacement pen, and found several starting at $150 or more ... and figured a whole computer + pen for less money was a good bargain :) -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Sat Oct 26 21:53:54 2002 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: HP Series 80 site (for HP-83, HP-85, HP-86, HP-87 and the 9915A and B) Message-ID: <200210230815.g9N8Fc15020701@codex.cis.upenn.edu> I have placed scanned versions of some of the manuals I have here and I plan to scan the rest as my time allows. The manuals are at: I have also placed images from all the ROMs I have at: Thanks **vp From vance at neurotica.com Sat Oct 26 21:56:08 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I had some VMS systems that I named SKITZO, PSYCHO, and PHLEGM. > > I was limited to six characters for the name due to DECnet. I > > was going for odd names. I was going to name the next one > > SMEGMA, but the order was cancelled. > > I guess it would've been worse if you'd gotten to JISM. I used to have a machine called upchuck. It was originally called chuck, but then the motherboard started getting flaky, so I renamed it. It ran like that for almost two years before it died. It was an RS/6000 320E. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sat Oct 26 21:58:05 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > One summer when I was teaching a summer course for some students > > > > in the 12-14 year old range. One of the students asked a question > > > > where I needed a dummy variable. So for illustration, I naturally > > > > named it dummy. A day or so later the program director approached > > > > me very concerned because the student had reported that I had called > > > > him a dummy. > > > > > > Hmm, it seems he really was ;) > > > > > > > After that, I'd happily rename the variable to "smart" and the student to > > "fucking idiot". :) > > Had a student in California complain to IBM because I kept calling her > "ma'am" > Seriously. How *D*A*R*E* you use a term of RESPECT with me!? LOL Peace... Sridhar From konieczny at intranet.ca Sat Oct 26 22:00:11 2002 From: konieczny at intranet.ca (Jeff Konieczny) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: sharp Message-ID: <3DBADA4E.1BD31FFE@intranet.ca> Hi Mike, I noticed on a Q&A board, you mentioned you have a sharp PC-1421 handheld computer. I'm interested in possibly using it to help control the stepping motors in a small robot, but I need the pinout for the 11-pin connector, and the memory location that controls them,.. Do you know where I can find that info? Thanks, Jeff From sonnet at sols.ucl.ac.be Sat Oct 26 22:03:02 2002 From: sonnet at sols.ucl.ac.be (Philippe Sonnet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8L and BA08A : how to connect them ? Message-ID: <004d01c27d13$489d1560$2101a8c0@CAMPUSNET> Recently, I saved a DEC PDP-8L (S/N 2209) with a BA08A memory expander box (S/N 587) from being trashed. It is is still pretty good shape. However all the flat cables connecting the two boxes have been cut right where they come out of the boxes. There are 8 double flat cables of 11 conductors between the two boxes. The connectors are still plugged in their original location but there is no hope to match the ends which have been cut. I want to reconstruct the connection cables between the main box and the expander. Before starting the soldering work, I need to know how the connections were before (which "Flipchip" connector card in the main box was paired with which connector in the expander box?). So far, I could not find any information or drawing about the BA08A on the Internet. Could someone help me, who owns a complete PDP-8L system (or technical drawing and maintenance guidebooks) ? I am ready to send a list of the number and location of the "Flipchip" cards on the main board in the two boxes as well as the description and location of the cables. Many thanks, Philippe Sonnet From vance at neurotica.com Sat Oct 26 22:05:04 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <32812.64.169.63.74.1035644596.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: Two AC generators with opposed phase being run from the same drive shaft. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Ross Archer wrote: > > Two half-wave circuits with diodes conducting in opposite > > cycles has to be the cheapest way to get bipolar supplies. > > Unless you have AC with a center tap, how is "two half-wave > circuites with diodes conducting in opposite cycles" different > than one full-wave rectifier? Maybe I don't understand how > your suggesting it would be wired? Perhaps some ASCII art > would help. (Doesn't have to be fancy.) > > Thanks, > Eric > > > From vance at neurotica.com Sat Oct 26 22:07:07 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: good book on Pascal In-Reply-To: <200210222303.QAA29398@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the > >performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark > >like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted > >BASIC. > > I fear this may be similar. It takes 3 disk of code, just to run the > Pascal compiler ( 280K disk ). If this is any indication, I'd suspect > the final code isn't all that swift. I just want to play with it a > little. Speaking of... I've noticed that BASIC programs running under the Microsoft QuickBASIC 4.5 interpreter run quite a bit faster than programs compiled by the QB 4.5 compiler. Strange, huh? Peace... Sridhar From M.Clemence at exeter.ac.uk Sat Oct 26 22:09:18 2002 From: M.Clemence at exeter.ac.uk (M.Clemence) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 repair details - more info Message-ID: <3DB6C5AA.9080809@exeter.ac.uk> Thanks to the couple of guys emailing me about this I have measured a few more things after Tony Duell's advice as follows. The three test points on the board are as follows with the machine off labelled Vp 4.8V +5 0V Vc 2.86V The transisitor Q8 has 4.8 V on the emitter but 0.18 Von the collector the +ve side of Capacitor C11 is 2.86 V pin 15 on IC7 is high None of these values change when the machine is switched on. As an aside, for those who maybe wondering why I'm bothering - I work at from Exeter university medical physics department and I have been asked by one of our research groups to help them with a problem regarding a pair of Epson HX-20's (from about 1983). This group still use this machine to control a piece of equipment which is used as part of a large clinical study in diabetes and there is currently no available replacement. We are in the process of replacing these computers with newer machines (for which we need to replicate and validate that the software performs identically as before which will take some time) but we would like if possible to keep them running in the meantime. If any one would be willing to supply photocopies of the relevant bits of the manual (schematic in particular) I would of course pay towards copying/postage/time. Yours Matthew Clemence From robert at usce.org Sat Oct 26 22:11:21 2002 From: robert at usce.org (Robert M. Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me Message-ID: <000001c27aa2$65435f80$0b01a8c0@WinProxy> Robert M. Campbell U.S. Computer Exchange, Inc. 386 East Maple Troy, MI 48083 Ph. 248 583-9000 Fx. 248 583-9009 robert@usce.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021026/52295377/attachment.html From william.white at us.ing.com Sat Oct 26 22:13:25 2002 From: william.white at us.ing.com (william.white@us.ing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: IBM APL for PC help: missing VM232___.AIO Message-ID: Are you still in need of this file? I presume you are looking at IBM APL version 1.0. I still use it but the trick is always getting it to work with larger hard drives and Windows. Bill White ING Employee Benefits - Actuarial Telephone: 612-342-3145 FAX: 612-342-7029 From gmphillips at earthlink.net Sat Oct 26 22:15:23 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY Message-ID: <001601c27af7$66091fe0$0100a8c0@sys1> 31 bidders. 4 willing to pay over $700. Are these machines in good condition really that rare? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2062770257 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021026/ee24d442/attachment.html From lgomez at cdromsa.es Sat Oct 26 22:17:25 2002 From: lgomez at cdromsa.es (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Luis_G=F3mez?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: NewBrain Message-ID: <000601c27b4b$e8595f10$fe00a8c0@Luis> I'm looking for techbical information abou Grundy Newbrain computer. I need solve a little problem in my computer. From dcohoe at qualitymeats.on.ca Sat Oct 26 22:20:01 2002 From: dcohoe at qualitymeats.on.ca (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: CP/M and NEC PC8001A items available Message-ID: <002701c27b5c$aeb76f20$8f02a8c0@DCOHOE> Recently I found someone (thank you Joe!) who had a bunch of Z-80 stuff including Televideo TS803's, Xerox 820-II's etc. I brought quite a lot home, but he still has some items that he values highly. He apparently needs to move soon and is short of cash. The things I got from him were in excellent condition. He's located in western New York state. I've tried to help him out and if necessary, could store stuff for someone. If you email me off-list, I can give you his address. regards, Dan Cohoe Here's what he sent me the other day: I have several items left to sell: 4 NEC PC-8001A computers and a few printers with 4 boxes of assorted hardware and software. Note: Only 3 NEC Monitors (Green). However, to make up for the missing monitor I have bundled with these computers 2 AMDEK (Amber Monitors) (Condition unknown) 1 AMDEK II Color Monitor (that needs minor repair) 1 Apple Monitor III (was working when I last used it. Note: One of the mini disk units seems to work when it wants to... Also, I have about seven boxes of Z80 and CP/M related items: 1) a few TRS-80 Mysteries decoded books 2) Tons of CP/M Books (assembler/database/communications) 3) Kilobaud Magazines 4) Digital Research CP/M Plus manuals 5) Much more I know that one of these boxes contains the original LDOS manual with LDOS related magazines.... (still need to find the box...it's hidden here somewhere...) Brian From garoalexanian at netscape.net Sat Oct 26 22:22:05 2002 From: garoalexanian at netscape.net (Garo Alexanian) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: amiga Message-ID: <3A3D4F4F.6DF7288D.4750CFBE@netscape.net> I found your great web site. Would you please give me some advice? My A4000 with a Cyberscsi I module does not always boot from the floppy or the hard drive (let alone from external hard drives). I'm certain I've got proper end termination and a good cable. When it does not boot from either the hard drive or the floppy it does not even check in with the floppy as it should. I was wondering if you knew the proper voltages on the hard drive power connector. Mine gave 5.0 volt and 11.77 volt. But my A200 give 5.0 and 11.23 (it also boots intermittantly). Also, whether a low density floppy would work in place of the high density it comes with. I have a spare low density in case it is the floppy which is intermittant. THanks for any comments. I bought all these and am having nightmares __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From sales at sgdp.co.uk Sat Oct 26 22:24:13 2002 From: sales at sgdp.co.uk (Sales team SGD Systems Ltd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: Sgi personal Iris Message-ID: <003201c27b7d$45ac3f80$010da8c0@RED> Bill, Do you still have these PI's, if so what is the spec 4D/20 12 or 20Mhz, or 4D/30, 4D35. Any info would help, if gone thanks anyway Thanks & regards David Frith SGD Systems Ltd T: +44 1235 227322 F: +44 1235 766065 Email: sales@sgdp.co.uk Web: www.sgdp.co.uk This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the above named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify the sender at +44 1235 227322 and delete this e-mail message from your computer. Thank you. intY has scanned this email for all known viruses (www.inty.com) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021026/1a92a96a/attachment.html From lbutzel at attbi.com Sat Oct 26 22:26:11 2002 From: lbutzel at attbi.com (Leo Butzel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion Message-ID: <004001c27be5$6faf93a0$6501a8c0@attbi.com> Mark - Saw your note on classiccmp.org re the Dynalogic Hyperion. I have several of these machines as well as some diagrams and parts lists for them. Two of them have a problem in their video circuits such that their screens show nothing nor is there a signal out of the external monitor RCA plug, yet the computer will otherwise continue to function normally. I have been looking for some guidance on how to track the fault down and fix it but have so far had no success. Any thoughts? Regards Leo Butzel lbutzel@attbi.com Seattle, WA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021026/43cde2ab/attachment.html From vance at neurotica.com Sat Oct 26 22:28:16 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That person needs a clawhammer to the head. Or maybe a pickaxe. WAR!... Sridhar On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > A few years ago (OK, about 10), I introduced an internet class to > rtfm.mit.edu (the big FAQ archive). Somebody asked what "RTFM" stood for. > I said, "Read The Fucking Manual". One of the students filed a complaint > that I "was rude and profane in response to a reasonable question". > > > > > > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > > Also, I would just like to note this new low point in the history of the > > > > > Classic Computers Mailing List. > > > > > > > > I'm sure the record will be broken at a later time. :-) > > > > > > I strive to be the one to do it. > > > > $200 on Sellam. Anyone give me 2-1? > From rgopalan at ntaf.cmmacs.ernet.in Sat Oct 26 22:30:19 2002 From: rgopalan at ntaf.cmmacs.ernet.in (rgopalan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: TLZ-06AA drive equivalent Message-ID: Hi, We have a TLZ-06AA 4mm DAT drive on our DEC 3000-500 Alpha server and there is some problem with it. Can someone tell me if there is an equivalent drive for the same? Thanks. Rajagopalan From akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to Sat Oct 26 22:32:22 2002 From: akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to (akb+lists.cctech@imap1.mirror.to) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: vax 7610 needs home, cambridge massachusetts Message-ID: Hi-- A friend has just told me that there is a VAX 7000-610 system in cambridge mass looking for a home. The system is to be disposed of in the next week or so. It's currently at a ground level loading dock. It's a 3 cabinet system, storage peripherals include a pair of ra92's, a tz857 stacker, a 9-track, and (I believe) 3 ba-350 shelves. I have warehouse space in the area and could be convinced to temporarily hold the system for pickup. I'll read both this address and the list for any interest... I have also written to the Rhode Island Retro-Computing Society, other places to post to welcomed... (any appropriate usenet groups?) --akb From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Oct 26 22:35:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD66@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> I'm known to sometimes revert to (censored) abusing annoying people trying to irritate the shits out of people by sending ads to discussion lists like these. In other words... piss off. (sorry folks... thas been a long day here.. BUT: I have LAT Server working under both OpenBSD _and_ Ultrix ! ;-) --fred -----Original Message----- From: Robert M. Campbell [mailto:robert@usce.org] Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 4:42 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me Robert M. Campbell U.S. Computer Exchange, Inc. 386 East Maple Troy, MI 48083 Ph. 248 583-9000 Fx. 248 583-9009 robert@usce.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021026/e89bdc62/attachment.html From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Oct 26 22:37:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: Anyone Care About RT-11 Message-ID: <3DBB5E76.A9B3C6F5@compsys.to> In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 I have now finished the verification tasks that I feel are needed to ensure that I am producing correct images. I have made some copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ They will shortly be sent to those individuals who requested them. Since there might be a number of individuals who can't download at a reasonable speed (even with DSL it takes about 3 hours each at about 30 KBytes per second as compared with about 3 KBytes per second on a dial up line), I am prepared to make additional copies (Tim Shoppa no longer seems to have the time to do so) and make them available at my cost (for media, label, envelope and shipping carton plus postage to the US) and make them available at my cost of about $ 5 / $ 8 / $ 10 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. If you prefer to have me use Maxell Black brand CDs which I have been told last about twice as long, the cost will be $ 1 more per CD. Note that all the prices are in US dollars for destinations in the US and postage from Canada. If you are in a different country, the postage will be different. Also note that any funds that I receive will be regarded as a gift. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Oct 26 22:44:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > > > There were a few pages with the AT commands. I need to have the S > > registers at least, for example what bits in what register must be se > > to change the 2 digit display, or activate the assymetrix transmition > > etc. > > I'll look today and see if I still have it. I might also be thinking of > the 14.4 manual, and if so, I'd imagine most of the S registers would be > the same. I do indeed have the full documentation set for the 28.8 version of that modem, including the quick reference sheet, which appears to be what you want. I'll see about scanning it in the next couple days, as I need to set up my large format scanner. The quick reference sheet is larger than the 8.5x11 scanner I currently have set up, and it didn't turn out too well when I tried to stitch the images together. Strangely enough, this modem appears to be barely on topic. -Toth From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sat Oct 26 23:31:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: <001601c27af7$66091fe0$0100a8c0@sys1> References: <001601c27af7$66091fe0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <1035693144.8102.11.camel@supermicro> On Wed, 2002-10-23 at 20:50, John Galt wrote: > 31 bidders. 4 willing to pay over $700. Are these machines in good condition really that rare? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2062770257 They're not the least bit rare in my neck of the woods, and I don't see anything special about that machine to warrant that price. The bill of sale, which might have been a selling point, doesn't match the equipment in that PC either. I can get ahold of the same setup in the same condition within a day for substantially less money. The systems and parts are out there in abundance if you look around. These machines are common as dirt, with a large amount of NOSs parts floating about. I think this is a case of people with more brains than money. From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sat Oct 26 23:36:01 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: <1035693144.8102.11.camel@supermicro> References: <001601c27af7$66091fe0$0100a8c0@sys1> <1035693144.8102.11.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <1035693422.8103.18.camel@supermicro> On Sun, 2002-10-27 at 00:32, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > > > I think this is a case of people with more brains than money. > Or more money than brains, even. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Oct 26 23:38:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: <001601c27af7$66091fe0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <001301c27d72$ca607ce0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I noticed that auction and was shocked myself. I'm showing a nearly identical machine at VCF this weekend (Original PC, 64K MB, DOS 1.0, CP/M-86 1.0 etc.) and didn't think it was worth nearly that, even to the eBay community. I think the package was what made it desirable including the original receipts, etc. That and there haven't been that many on eBay lately. Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Galt Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 5:51 PM To: classic cmp Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY 31 bidders. 4 willing to pay over $700. Are these machines in good condition really that rare? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=2062770257 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021026/29c97157/attachment.html From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 27 00:09:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY Message-ID: Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but if you can find the ones with the cassette port easily, then I hate you. I've only ever found one, and the case was in poor shape.. I pitched the case, but the mobo is sitting next to me... HAH! Mine is more R@RE! LQQK! 37ï†3! than the Ebay one, cause I have an 8087 marked "IBM".. Which, I must say, is something I haven't ever seen before... And no, I'm not claiming that is indeed rare, beats me, I just thought it was nifty... If I had kept all the PC stuff I had, I could likely have made more than that auction, since I had the complete technical references and troubleshooting diskettes and pretty much every genuine IBM option you could want.. I have a CMI IBM HDD, and an ST-506 IBM HDD, numerous IBM floppies, never have found the p-System, however.. But hell, I had genuine IBM loopback plugs.. lol.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Oct 27 00:16:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: <1035693144.8102.11.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: On 27 Oct 2002, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > On Wed, 2002-10-23 at 20:50, John Galt wrote: > > > 31 bidders. 4 willing to pay over $700. Are these machines in good > > condition really that rare? > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2062770257 > > They're not the least bit rare in my neck of the woods, and I don't see > anything special about that machine to warrant that price. The bill of > sale, which might have been a selling point, doesn't match the equipment > in that PC either. The bill of sale really isn't even close...heck, it even appears to be a Xerox copy. Of course, that might not be a bill of sale, but rather a suggested configuration list, or it could just simply be that the seller included that bit of paper with this auction to inflate the price. -Toth From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Oct 27 00:21:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1035696145.8272.3.camel@supermicro> On Sun, 2002-10-27 at 01:10, Will Jennings wrote: > Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but if you can find the ones with the > cassette port easily, then I hate you. I've only ever found one, and the AFAIK, all 5150's have a casette port - it would be unusual if it did not. They were dropped on the XT upward. > case was in poor shape.. I pitched the case, but the mobo is sitting next to > me... HAH! Mine is more R@RE! LQQK! 37??3! than the Ebay one, cause I have > an 8087 marked "IBM".. Which, I must say, is something I haven't ever seen > before... And no, I'm not claiming that is indeed rare, beats me, I just The 8087's stamped with "IBM" were distributed by IBM. They came in a set of both an 8087 and 8088. IBM provided the extra 8088 because early runs had a problem with the 8087. > thought it was nifty... If I had kept all the PC stuff I had, I could likely > have made more than that auction, since I had the complete technical > references and troubleshooting diskettes and pretty much every genuine IBM > option you could want.. I have a CMI IBM HDD, and an ST-506 IBM HDD, > numerous IBM floppies, never have found the p-System, however.. But hell, I > had genuine IBM loopback plugs.. lol.. > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > From voyager at hol.gr Sun Oct 27 02:41:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:20 2005 Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem References: Message-ID: <001b01c27d94$460b4250$0100a8c0@voyager4> Thanks! That's great!!! Don't mind if you send it in 2 or more pcs. I will make the rest :-) But, could you please check, if there is an S register for the 2 digit display? could you please send me the options? I am 99% confident that it's not in the quick reference sheet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" someone@spamme.net To: <> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [OT?] Supra FaxModem > On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > > > > > There were a few pages with the AT commands. I need to have the S > > > registers at least, for example what bits in what register must be se > > > to change the 2 digit display, or activate the assymetrix transmition > > > etc. > > > > I'll look today and see if I still have it. I might also be thinking of > > the 14.4 manual, and if so, I'd imagine most of the S registers would be > > the same. > > I do indeed have the full documentation set for the 28.8 version of that > modem, including the quick reference sheet, which appears to be what you > want. I'll see about scanning it in the next couple days, as I need to set > up my large format scanner. The quick reference sheet is larger than the > 8.5x11 scanner I currently have set up, and it didn't turn out too well > when I tried to stitch the images together. > > Strangely enough, this modem appears to be barely on topic. > > -Toth > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Oct 27 04:19:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem In-Reply-To: <001b01c27d94$460b4250$0100a8c0@voyager4> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > But, could you please check, if there is an S register for the 2 digit > display? could you please send me the options? I am 99% confident that > it's not in the quick reference sheet. I don't see one that directly sets the display. According to the manual, S37 can set the line speed, but N0 has to also be given to enable it. There is another command called +MS that sets other speed settings, but it has tons of options. Diamond has this manual linked from their website, but it appears to be for a later modem: ftp://ftp.diamondmm.com/pub/communications/supra/288VPC.pdf This file appears to cover most all of the AT commands and S register options for the SupraFAXModem 288: ftp://ftp.diamondmm.com/pub/communications/supra/flashers_current/v34/336_list.txt It looks like most of the modems are still listed here: http://www.diamondmm.com/support/diamond/default.asp?menu=support&submenu=Legacy_Modems It also looks like most of the flash ROM versions can be found here: ftp://ftp.diamondmm.com/pub/communications/supra/ Btw, the book I have covers both the 14.4 and 28.8 modems, while the quick reference sheet only covers 28.8 modems. Do you know offhand if the 14.4 modems can be flash upgraded in the same manner as the 28.8s? It certainly appears as though Supra was trying to prevent their modems from becoming obsolete due to protocol and speed improvements. These remind me of the US Robotics Courier modems. -Toth From rwittig at chicago.us.mensa.org Sun Oct 27 04:56:01 2002 From: rwittig at chicago.us.mensa.org (Robert C Wittig) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: good book on Pascal References: Message-ID: <000601c27da7$adfacb20$9933fea9@home> > I've noticed that BASIC programs running under the Microsoft QuickBASIC > 4.5 interpreter run quite a bit faster than programs compiled by the QB > 4.5 compiler. Strange, huh? I'm not sure I know what you mean by a QB compiler. I have used (and continue to use) both the QBasic interpreter, that comes free with later versions of BASIC, and the QuickBasic compiler, which was a separate, stand alone purchase, and a full compiler. QBasic is an Interpreter that runs *.bas files the same way that a Perl interpreter runs scripts, which is a line at a time, when they are called, without any compilation. QuickBasic can also run scripts in this manner. It is also a full compiler and linker, and can produce *.obj and *.exe files. When compiling, you get to choose whether you want the file compiled to stand alone, or to use the brun.exe and brun.lib runtime modules, which are part of the package, and really speed up a program. I have compiled the same programs, first to use brun.exe, and then to be stand alone, and the stand alone versions are a lot bigger, and a lot slower (this is especially noticeable in graphics shows, like fractal displays). Of course, if you are going to run the brun version of the program, the brun files have to be on the computer, so it is nice for utilities you are running on your own box, but not much use, for exporting to other computers. -wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/ A business is as honest as its advertisements. . From voyager at hol.gr Sun Oct 27 05:12:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: [OT?] Supra FaxModem References: Message-ID: <001901c27da9$67cc4320$0100a8c0@voyager4> Thanks for the links! But why don't they have these on the web site? is it THAT big the waste of storage? :-) I am not sure, but I suspect that the 14.4k modems were not upgradable. Only the 28.8k did support flash, because of the lack of the market-standard and the quick evolution of standards at the time. There is an ati(something) command, that reports if there is Flash support. I am mirroring the supra directories, I do not know if I will find them again in a couple of years ;-))) Once again: Thanks!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [OT?] Supra FaxModem > On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Voyager wrote: > > > But, could you please check, if there is an S register for the 2 digit > > display? could you please send me the options? I am 99% confident that > > it's not in the quick reference sheet. > > I don't see one that directly sets the display. According to the manual, > S37 can set the line speed, but N0 has to also be given to enable it. > There is another command called +MS that sets other speed settings, but it > has tons of options. > > Diamond has this manual linked from their website, but it appears to be > for a later modem: > ftp://ftp.diamondmm.com/pub/communications/supra/288VPC.pdf > > This file appears to cover most all of the AT commands and S register > options for the SupraFAXModem 288: > ftp://ftp.diamondmm.com/pub/communications/supra/flashers_current/v34/336_li st.txt > > It looks like most of the modems are still listed here: > http://www.diamondmm.com/support/diamond/default.asp?menu=support&submenu=Le gacy_Modems > > It also looks like most of the flash ROM versions can be found here: > ftp://ftp.diamondmm.com/pub/communications/supra/ > > Btw, the book I have covers both the 14.4 and 28.8 modems, while the quick > reference sheet only covers 28.8 modems. > > Do you know offhand if the 14.4 modems can be flash upgraded in the same > manner as the 28.8s? It certainly appears as though Supra was trying to > prevent their modems from becoming obsolete due to protocol and speed > improvements. These remind me of the US Robotics Courier modems. > > -Toth > > From rwittig at chicago.us.mensa.org Sun Oct 27 05:35:00 2002 From: rwittig at chicago.us.mensa.org (Robert C Wittig) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) References: Message-ID: <001001c27dad$126ad280$9933fea9@home> > That person needs a clawhammer to the head. Or maybe a pickaxe. > > WAR!... Sridhar > > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > A few years ago (OK, about 10), I introduced an internet class to > > rtfm.mit.edu (the big FAQ archive). Somebody asked what "RTFM" stood for. > > I said, "Read The Fucking Manual". One of the students filed a complaint > > that I "was rude and profane in response to a reasonable question". RTFL! -wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/ A business is as honest as its advertisements. . From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Oct 27 06:11:00 2002 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: For Sale: Diamond D5 Wordprocessor Message-ID: <20021027121239.89393.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, It seems that adverts are tolerated on this list, so here goes... :-) The time has unfortunately come to get rid of my Diamond D5 Wordprocessor unit; I've had it for 6 years or so now and not really paid it any attention due to lack of time. Whilst I'd like to keep it, lack of space is forcing sale as I currently need the room for more pressing (car, not computer) projects. The system's complete (dating from around the mid 1970's) including: Base unit itself (complete with twin 8" floppies + keys), Display unit, Keyboard, Printer (Diablo daisywheel, badged as Diamond), User manual, Lots of discs (including system disc master copies and backups) - all of these are in disc boxes so unless bit-rot has set in should be OK. I dumped a few pictures in a directory at: http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/diamond (640x480 or thereabouts, directory listing gives the file sizes) I got the system in a non-working condition (along with a pile of Link machines and fileserver unit, which was what I was really interested in) and I'm afraid what with lack of time it's stayed that way. When power is applied it'll try to read from the drives, chatter for a while and then stop, with nothing appearing on the display. I found a hand-drawn schematic for part of the display unit circuitry within the user manual, which suggests that the previous owner may have been pointing a finger at that. However, I've never even had time to do the rudimentary first checks on the machine (cleaning board contacts etc.) so it's possible a good strip-down and clean might even sort it out. (as an aside I seem to recall that the back of the display tube glows when the unit's turned on, which is at least encouraging) I'd like around 30 pounds for it if anyone's interested - hopefully it'll find a good home where someone can restore it to running condition again! I'm located just north of Cambridge, UK. cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From curt at atari-history.com Sun Oct 27 08:50:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Need help with DSSI/SCSI and an ext CD-ROM References: <001301c27d72$ca607ce0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <002201c27dc8$3593e010$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Hi, I need some help with a Vax 4000-200. I picked up an RRD43 CD-ROM drive and installed it into an external SCSI-1 enclosure. On the 4000-200 on the far left side of the QBus slots is a slot with 2 connectors, one appears to be a standard SCSI-1 connector and the other is an inverse SCSI-2 connector (labels Bus 0) with a terminator on it that lights up on power up. I attempted to hook up the RRD43 to the SCSI-1 connector and after power up at the >>> prompt I do a show device and show dssi and the internal DSSI drives and the TF85 show up, then it shows the ethernet AUI port and Mac address, but nothing on the SCSI devices (CD-ROM set to device #6, then I tried device #4, no change) Show SCSI shows nothing. So, what am I doing incorrectly??? Is that port usable as an external SCSI-1 connector??? I have a terminator installed on the Drive enclosure. I picked up a spare dual SCSI Qbus board, but before going down that road and having to set it up and such I just want to make sure that I can use the built in SCSI bus first (or not) Any and All help is greatly appreciated, I would really like to get OpenVMS installed on this unit and get it up and running, thanks. Curt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021027/33668d9f/attachment.html From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Oct 27 09:04:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Need help with DSSI/SCSI and an ext CD-ROM Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD69@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Curt, > On the 4000-200 on the far left side of the QBus slots is > a slot with 2 connectors, one appears to be a standard > SCSI-1 connector and the other is an inverse SCSI-2 connector > (labels Bus 0) with a terminator on it that lights up on power > up. The first one indeed is a SCSI connector. The second one is the DSSI bus connector, connected to bus #0. It should be terminated (with the lighted term) unless you have an external storage cab, which then in turn has the term. The SCSI connector, however, is NOT usable for what you're doing. The BA440 box (which is what your cab sounds like) has provisions for changing its internal (DSSI) bus into a SCSI bus, for example to be used with the KFQSA controller. That way, you can use SCSI devices with the VAX by mounting them in the old DSSI rails. The VAX does _NOT_ have a SCSI controller by default; unless you have something like a KFQSA, Dilog or Emulex SCSI-to-Qbus controller, you can NOT use the RRD43. Sorry to be the bringer of Bad Newz (tm).. Cheers, Fred From curt at atari-history.com Sun Oct 27 09:33:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Need help with DSSI/SCSI and an ext CD-ROM References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD69@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <003101c27dce$2d54eab0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Fred, Thanks dude and no your not the bringer of bad news, your just helping me relearn all of this, I used to work for Bay State Computer Group almost 10 years ago, and while most of my work was building and installing SparcServers, I did get to do a lot of MV3100's and MV II's as well as setup DECservers so I am very rusty at all of this and while it's disappointing to hit another bump in the road to getting this system up and running, at least I'm learning a lot along the way, I will see if I can scrounge up a KZQSA or maybe a CMD443 board. I have an M5976-SA but the system doesn't seem to like it and I did some searching and I don't think its compatible with the BA440 chassis. Thanks for the fast response, this is fun :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 10:06 AM Subject: RE: Need help with DSSI/SCSI and an ext CD-ROM > Curt, > > > On the 4000-200 on the far left side of the QBus slots is > > a slot with 2 connectors, one appears to be a standard > > SCSI-1 connector and the other is an inverse SCSI-2 connector > > (labels Bus 0) with a terminator on it that lights up on power > > up. > The first one indeed is a SCSI connector. The second one is the > DSSI bus connector, connected to bus #0. It should be terminated > (with the lighted term) unless you have an external storage cab, > which then in turn has the term. > > The SCSI connector, however, is NOT usable for what you're doing. > The BA440 box (which is what your cab sounds like) has provisions > for changing its internal (DSSI) bus into a SCSI bus, for example > to be used with the KFQSA controller. That way, you can use SCSI > devices with the VAX by mounting them in the old DSSI rails. > > The VAX does _NOT_ have a SCSI controller by default; unless you > have something like a KFQSA, Dilog or Emulex SCSI-to-Qbus controller, > you can NOT use the RRD43. > > Sorry to be the bringer of Bad Newz (tm).. > > Cheers, > Fred > From curt at atari-history.com Sun Oct 27 09:40:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Wanted: KZQSA Adapter References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD69@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <003501c27dcf$396cf760$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Well thanks for Fred for helping me out with my DSSI/SCSI question, now I just need to find a KZQSA adapter for my 4000-200, I just did some Google searches and the current DEC dealers (aka - ripoff artists) want around $150 for a controller which is insane IMHO given the fact that I picked up a fully loaded 4000 for $50. Anyone out there have a spare board for sale or trade??? Let me know, thanks. Curt From curt at atari-history.com Sun Oct 27 09:49:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Wanted: KZQSA Adapter - Never mind References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD69@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <003501c27dcf$396cf760$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <003901c27dd0$84c2e570$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Never mind, I have an M5976-SA which is a KZQSA, sorry.... Anyone know how to configure this beastie and get the system to see it??? Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 10:40 AM Subject: Wanted: KZQSA Adapter > Well thanks for Fred for helping me out with my DSSI/SCSI question, now I > just need to find a KZQSA adapter for my 4000-200, I just did some Google > searches and the current DEC dealers (aka - ripoff artists) want around $150 > for a controller which is insane IMHO given the fact that I picked up a > fully loaded 4000 for $50. > > Anyone out there have a spare board for sale or trade??? Let me know, > thanks. > > > > Curt > > From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Oct 27 10:00:01 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: MAC's from N.A. > Africa? Message-ID: <20021027160237.NSZW5548.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> I've been asked what is required to make MAC's (Plus, SE, CI, FX) from North America run in Africa. I took a quick looked at a few of mine and didn't notice a switch on the back of the powe supply like some of the older PC's had. Is the costs worth the cost of shipping? From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Oct 27 10:03:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Need help with DSSI/SCSI and an ext CD-ROM Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> I wrote: > The SCSI connector, however, is NOT usable for what you're doing. > The BA440 box (which is what your cab sounds like) has provisions > for changing its internal (DSSI) bus into a SCSI bus, for example > to be used with the KFQSA controller. That way, you can use SCSI > devices with the VAX by mounting them in the old DSSI rails. > > The VAX does _NOT_ have a SCSI controller by default; unless you > have something like a KFQSA, Dilog or Emulex SCSI-to-Qbus controller, > you can NOT use the RRD43. Make that an KZQSA, obviously... Does anyone have a KFQSA and/or KZQSA they'd be willing to let go for a fair price? Thanks, Fred From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Oct 27 10:09:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) References: <003b01c2795f$b8042a90$7800a8c0@george> <20021022143045.GD5689397@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <004101c27dd3$911f1520$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Well, seeing as we're on the subject of machine names... I asked my brother for some suggestiosn. He picked "goku", "gohan" and "goten" - all characters from the anime series "Dragonball Z". I told him that I wasn't about to use names from a cartoon series. So he half inched (stole) my admin password, logged into my server and then changed the names on all the machines remotely. To characters from the "Digimon Tamers" TV series. I told him NEVER to touch the server again, deactivated his account on my server for two hours and added his machine to the blocklist. Frankly, I'm too lazy to change the names on the machines back. My main machine's official name is Phoenix - so-called because it survived a botched BIOS flash (it's a PC running Linux). The server is known as "Defiant" - from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, my laptop goes by the nickname "Voyager" (note the Star Trek reference). And my brother's machine? "Maggotbox". :-) One of these days I'll change the names on the machines. I also learned a few lessons. One being "Change the server admin password often", the other "Keep the Linux Quick Reference card out of reach of anklebiters and lusers"... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From curt at atari-history.com Sun Oct 27 10:29:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Need help with DSSI/SCSI and an ext CD-ROM References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD6A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <003e01c27dd6$19eb2770$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Well I plugged in the KZQSA into the Qbus, did a show qbus and didn't see it, tried to run config and put in kzqsa, kfqsa-disk and tape, got their address/vectors: 772150/154 kfqsa-disk 774500/260 kfqsa-tape 761300/300 kzqsa Did a Show qbus again, but it starts at 761500 so I can't find the location associate with it to do a set ho/ma/uq on the uqssp Controller.... arrghhhh! Anyone know what the jumper settings are on these cards, maybe something needs to be changed. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 11:05 AM Subject: RE: Need help with DSSI/SCSI and an ext CD-ROM > I wrote: > > > The SCSI connector, however, is NOT usable for what you're doing. > > The BA440 box (which is what your cab sounds like) has provisions > > for changing its internal (DSSI) bus into a SCSI bus, for example > > to be used with the KFQSA controller. That way, you can use SCSI > > devices with the VAX by mounting them in the old DSSI rails. > > > > The VAX does _NOT_ have a SCSI controller by default; unless you > > have something like a KFQSA, Dilog or Emulex SCSI-to-Qbus controller, > > you can NOT use the RRD43. > > Make that an KZQSA, obviously... > > Does anyone have a KFQSA and/or KZQSA they'd be willing to let go > for a fair price? > > Thanks, > Fred > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Oct 27 10:42:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but if you can find the ones with the > cassette port easily, then I hate you. I've only ever found one, and the The ones withOUT the cassette ports are XT's, NOT PC's The ones with the cassette ports are PC's (aka 5150. Note: 5150 in police radio code is "one who is mentally disturbed and a threat to themselves or others") > case was in poor shape.. I pitched the case, but the mobo is sitting next to > me... HAH! Mine is more R@RE! LQQK! 37ï†3! than the Ebay one, cause I have > an 8087 marked "IBM".. Which, I must say, is something I haven't ever seen > before... And no, I'm not claiming that is indeed rare, beats me, I just > thought it was nifty... If I had kept all the PC stuff I had, I could likely > have made more than that auction, since I had the complete technical > references and troubleshooting diskettes and pretty much every genuine IBM > option you could want.. I have a CMI IBM HDD, and an ST-506 IBM HDD, > numerous IBM floppies, never have found the p-System, however.. But hell, I > had genuine IBM loopback plugs.. lol.. My 5150 has a bunch of aftermarket mods, including an added ROM, 4 floppies, EPROM programmer, etc. From what you are saying, I oughta put the original pieces back into it, put it back into an IBM box, with the receipt,... and find somebody with too much money. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Oct 27 10:50:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Destructive labelling (was RE: Tandy XENIX Disks) References: Message-ID: <00e701c27dd9$4e929640$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> J.C. Wren wrote: > "Because people steal mouse balls. A friend works in a major computer > chain store, and I used to work for University of Texas, in IT. > Keeping balls in the mice is a huge headache. Damn if I know why > anyone wants them, though." > Makes quite an argument for optical mice, doesn't it? Yup. Not only do they provide smoother movement of the mouse cursor, they're also more reliable and the mouse ball can't be pilfered. Oh, and they can be had, in some cases, for less than the price of a mechanical (with ball) mouse. I've also noticed that my Genius (ho hum) Netscroll+ Eye works on pretty much any surface, too. I even used it on carpet (once). Shame it ended up caking the sensor in cack. That was certainly fun to clean... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Oct 27 10:55:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD66@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I'm known to sometimes revert to (censored) abusing annoying people > trying to irritate the shits out of people by sending ads to discussion > lists like these. In other words... piss off. Wait, I thought ads were allowed? Not that I particularly wish to be innundated with commercial requests, and in particular, I'd hope that no here would sell off their classic equipment to a reseller, but I see plenty of ads on this list. Does the charter of the list indicate that people can't sell or request to purchase equipment on the list? -brian. > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert M. Campbell [mailto:robert@usce.org] > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 4:42 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me > > > [...] From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Oct 27 10:58:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) In-Reply-To: <004101c27dd3$911f1520$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Well, seeing as we're on the subject of machine names... > I asked my brother for some suggestiosn. He picked "goku", "gohan" and > "goten" - all characters from the anime series "Dragonball Z". I told him > that I wasn't about to use names from a cartoon series. So he half inched OK, I've read/heard that expression before, and I'm curious about it. Where did "half inch" come from? Does it refer to any specific mode of aquisition, like Human Engineering as opposed to rifling the desk? Please, do tell. Doc From hansp at aconit.org Sun Oct 27 11:10:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Origin of "half-inched" - OT References: Message-ID: <3DBC1E6F.1090405@aconit.org> Doc Shipley wrote: > On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > OK, I've read/heard that expression before, and I'm curious about it. > Where did "half inch" come from? Does it refer to any specific mode of > aquisition, like Human Engineering as opposed to rifling the desk? > Please, do tell. My explanation, subject to correction, would be cockney rhyming slang : half-inched = pinched = stolen What I have never seen an explanation of is whether there is any rational behind the rhymes used. -- hbp From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Oct 27 12:37:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Origin of "half-inched" - OT In-Reply-To: <3DBC1E6F.1090405@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > > My explanation, subject to correction, would be cockney rhyming slang : > > half-inched = pinched = stolen Ahh. That makes sense. Sort of. Speaking as a US-born hick, cockney might as well be Ancient Greek, for all I can usually decipher it. Doc From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Oct 27 12:41:01 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Wait, I thought ads were allowed? Not that I particularly wish to be > innundated with commercial requests, and in particular, I'd hope that > no > here would sell off their classic equipment to a reseller, but I see > plenty of ads on this list. Does the charter of the list indicate > that people can't sell or request to purchase equipment on the list? Actually, there doesn't seem to be an answer. That part of the FAQ is missing (http://www.classiccmp.org/faq.html). Are there any other places on the 'net where there would be a complete version of this, or was the rest never written? Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Oct 27 12:49:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD6F@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, >>> Piss off... >> Wait, I thought ads were allowed? > Actually, there doesn't seem to be an answer. My beef is with HOW it's done, not THAT it's done. People can plug their services and/or goods here, if they are polite about it. This guy.... (grumbl) wasn't. --fred From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Oct 27 12:53:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY Message-ID: <11d.196b3889.2aed9072@aol.com> I would say that the three original manuals and the DOS SW contributes mightily to the value to collectors. When Items like this sell for such high values I notice they usually include the original Software and manuals. Often they have the original boxes. Also condition is very important to collectors. This one purports to be in near perfect condition which is somewhat rare in its own right. Paxton Astoria, OR From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Oct 27 12:56:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Sark wrote: > > > > Wait, I thought ads were allowed? Not that I particularly wish to be > > innundated with commercial requests, and in particular, I'd hope that > > no > > here would sell off their classic equipment to a reseller, but I see > > plenty of ads on this list. Does the charter of the list indicate > > that people can't sell or request to purchase equipment on the list? > > Actually, there doesn't seem to be an answer. That part of the FAQ is > missing (http://www.classiccmp.org/faq.html). Are there any other > places on the 'net where there would be a complete version of this, or > was the rest never written? Personally, this is how I look at it: If you're looking for somethign specific (ie you want a DRV11 because x...) then that's OK, even if you want it for commercial reasons (like the guy that was wanting PS/2 model 30s back in July). What is annoying is people that spam the list with general requests, like "Does anyone have DEC hardware?" or "I buy old IBM machines" (as a request for sale not as in "I collect old IBM machines.") That's my US$0.02. Pat -- "The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted BASIC." -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Oct 27 13:29:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Replacement OS/2 Install Media Message-ID: Now that I have a good machine to try installing OS/2 on (a PS/2 Model 95), it seems that the install disks for my copy of OS/2 Warp 3 have become re-magnitized in a patter to obscure the original data. Does anyone have a copy of OS/2 that they can send me (Teledisk images or dd images or an ISO is just fine with me) or know if I can talk to someone at IBM to get new media to replace the failed old media? Thanks for the help! Pat -- "The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted BASIC." -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Oct 27 13:33:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: amiga References: <3A3D4F4F.6DF7288D.4750CFBE@netscape.net> Message-ID: <3DBC3EF2.CC2B1A61@ccp.com> Well it looks like your 12v line is a shade low, which could be due to several things. One, if your drives are fed through several power "y" cables, there may be losses in the connectors. Two, if the current draw is excessive, the voltage may drop as well. Take out any extra y cables and try again, and squeezing the pins of the connectors with a needle nose pliers to tighten the connection may help too. The PS in the Amigas are notoriously light, and with all the peripherals, it may just be marginal enough not to deliver the full 12 volts needed to spin the drives at the right speed, hence booting errors. Try powering the hard drive from another power supply, and move the floppy to it as well, and see what happens. If everything works okay from there then the internal PS is just not pulling the load as it should. The DSDD drive should work in place of the stock DSHD drive (should be a Chinon FZ357A) with the proper jumpers. Since most Amiga software is standardized on the DSDD drive and 880k capacity; this shouldn't be much of a problem, unless you want to transfer files from a PC using CrossDOS. You'll enjoy working with your A4000, but beware, parts are virtually non-existant, and repairs done by others can get pretty pricey. I have 11 Amigas in my stable so far, all the models except the 4k and the 600. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO Garo Alexanian wrote: > > I found your great web site. Would you please give me some advice? My A4000 with a Cyberscsi I module does not always boot from the floppy or the hard drive (let alone from external hard drives). I'm certain I've got proper end termination and a good cable. When it does not boot from either the hard drive or the floppy it does not even check in with the floppy as it should. I was wondering if you knew the proper voltages on the hard drive power connector. Mine gave 5.0 volt and 11.77 volt. But my A200 give 5.0 and 11.23 (it also boots intermittantly). Also, whether a low density floppy would work in place of the high density it comes with. I have a spare low density in case it is the floppy which is intermittant. THanks for any comments. I bought all these and am having nightmares From red at bears.org Sun Oct 27 13:57:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Replacement OS/2 Install Media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Now that I have a good machine to try installing OS/2 on (a PS/2 Model > 95), it seems that the install disks for my copy of OS/2 Warp 3 have > become re-magnitized in a patter to obscure the original data. Does > anyone have a copy of OS/2 that they can send me (Teledisk images or dd > images or an ISO is just fine with me) or know if I can talk to someone at > IBM to get new media to replace the failed old media? Better yet, you can make replacement disks straight off the Warp CD. The tools are in \diskimgs and the images themselves are in \diskimgs\os2 You'll want disk0.dsk (boot) and disk1_cd.dsk (install for CD) ok r. From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Oct 27 14:03:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Replacement OS/2 Install Media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > Now that I have a good machine to try installing OS/2 on (a PS/2 Model > > 95), it seems that the install disks for my copy of OS/2 Warp 3 have > > become re-magnitized in a patter to obscure the original data. Does > > anyone have a copy of OS/2 that they can send me (Teledisk images or dd > > images or an ISO is just fine with me) or know if I can talk to someone at > > IBM to get new media to replace the failed old media? > > Better yet, you can make replacement disks straight off the Warp CD. > > The tools are in \diskimgs and the images themselves are in \diskimgs\os2 > > You'll want disk0.dsk (boot) and disk1_cd.dsk (install for CD) Well, if I owned the CD version that would probably work. However, I have the floppy disk version and a good number of the install floppies are not readable. Pat -- "The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted BASIC." -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Oct 27 14:04:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: MAC's from N.A. > Africa? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 27 Oct 2002 11:02:36 EST." <20021027160237.NSZW5548.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <200210271844.SAA13902@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Mike said: > > > I've been asked what is required to make MAC's (Plus, SE, CI, FX) from > North America run in Africa. > > I took a quick looked at a few of mine and didn't notice a switch on the > back of the powe supply like some of the older PC's had. > > Is the costs worth the cost of shipping? > European market SEs run on 120 to 240V, 50 to 60 Hz. Mine actually says 100-240V on the back, but the manual says 120-240. AFAIK no adjustment is required. Whether US examples are the same I can't say, but my manual seems to be American and that says 120-240V. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From hansp at aconit.org Sun Oct 27 14:14:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Origin of "half-inched" - OT References: Message-ID: <3DBC499A.2050902@aconit.org> Doc Shipley wrote: > On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: >>My explanation, subject to correction, would be cockney rhyming slang : >> half-inched = pinched = stolen > Ahh. That makes sense. Sort of. Speaking as a US-born hick, cockney > might as well be Ancient Greek, for all I can usually decipher it. I think that was the whole point originally, secret communication. A quick google threw up this from http://www.aldertons.com "The origins of Cockney Rhyming Slang are uncertain. It's not really a language since the words spoken are clearly English; on the other hand, it's not a dialect either, since the speakers of this slang are also perfectly capable of not using it! Some stories go that this slang originated in the market place so that the vendor's could communicate without the customers knowing what was being said - you wouldn't want your customers knowing that you were going to lower your prices in ten minutes so you could go home early. Other stories have it that it originated in the prisons so that inmates could talk without the guards listening in. I recently heard from Bob King that "it was born shortly after Sir Robert Peel introduced and implemented his idea for a Police force. The criminal fraternity had never been faced with such a concerted effort to thwart them, so they developed Cockney Slang, the idea of which being that, two or more criminals could hold open conversation, within earshot of a "Peeler," without fear that their plans were being overheard by the police." And Jackie says that many of the rhymes were invented by the petty thieves to rob people in the markets, allowing the thieves to talk amongst themselves without anyone knowing what they were talking about" -- hbp From spedraja at ono.com Sun Oct 27 14:27:00 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: semi-OT: Replacement OS/2 Install Media References: Message-ID: <04db01c27df7$3b5add80$24302b3e@sergio> We used in my job from OS/2 1.3 to OS/2 4.5 advanced. All in spanish, but some of the first versions were English versions. I can check if we have yet the OS/2 Warp English version in CD-ROM (and operative). In this case I could send you one copy. Greetings from Spain Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Finnegan To: Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:06 PM Subject: Re: semi-OT: Replacement OS/2 Install Media > On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > > On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > > Now that I have a good machine to try installing OS/2 on (a PS/2 Model > > > 95), it seems that the install disks for my copy of OS/2 Warp 3 have > > > become re-magnitized in a patter to obscure the original data. Does > > > anyone have a copy of OS/2 that they can send me (Teledisk images or dd > > > images or an ISO is just fine with me) or know if I can talk to someone at > > > IBM to get new media to replace the failed old media? > > > > Better yet, you can make replacement disks straight off the Warp CD. > > > > The tools are in \diskimgs and the images themselves are in \diskimgs\os2 > > > > You'll want disk0.dsk (boot) and disk1_cd.dsk (install for CD) > > Well, if I owned the CD version that would probably work. However, I have > the floppy disk version and a good number of the install floppies are not > readable. > > Pat > > -- > "The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the > performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark > like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted > BASIC." > -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Oct 27 14:31:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: For HP1000 / SIMH owners/users... References: <002201c27c42$e98d42f0$0100a8c0@voyager4> <009201c27c49$3230a1e0$24302b3e@sergio> Message-ID: <3DBC4E2C.4060202@tiac.net> Got any HP minis running (or emulated)? Tired of HPBASIC? Looking for something to get your HP's lights blinking? Introducing the first (known) programming language / operating system designed and written specifically for the preservation of antique computing hardware, HP-IPL/OS (Hewlett Packard Interpretive Programming Language / Operating System). If you have any running HP mini from the HP2114A up through the HP2117F, or use the SIMH package to emulate one of these rather unique CPU's, there is a stand-alone freeware threaded interpreter available for 'Beta' testing. Check out: http://www.nc5.infi.net/~wrnewton/oldcomp/hp2100/ Currently the language kernel is totally stable, but the file system and disk support modules are still in development. So it may fall a little short in the 'Operating System' department currently, but only by 'modern' standards. Being an extensible threaded interpreter, these modules and drivers can easily be added (through the CREATE tool) as they are developed, so there is no reason to hold the kernel back while these are worked out. Currently disk support is focused on CS/80 disks using the 12821A interface, but support for HP7900's, or any other well-documented device is quite practical. Currently HP7970 (13181) mag-tape is supported, along with paper tape readers, punches, and BACI serial links to external host systems. (Developers wanted!) If you have a workable CPU with no peripheral devices, its quite easy to hang the HP off of a host system with a serial port. I'll be happy to help anyone interface their HP system hardware to an external host, and an interesting ATAPI (IDE) hard-disk hardware interface is also in development (using generic HP I/O boards). If you have never gotten your blinkin'-light HP to do anything useful, HP-IPL/OS is designed to be very easy to bootstrap. Simple but fast stand-alone boot devices (paper tape reader emulators) are available as pre-programmed parts (PIC and EEPROM). This is an ideal starter project for those wanting to get their feet wet with their HP hardware. In no time at all we can get HP-IPL/OS running on anything from a 2114 with 4K words of core right on up through E and F series machines with a full megaword (DMS is supported). Currently HP-IPL/OS does not support the A or L series hardware, mainly due to a lack of documentation on these later machines and their lack of a front pannel for easy bootstrapping. Should anyone have a working HP7970E mag-tape, bootable 1600 bpi mag-tapes are available now. Opinions and suggestions are welcome, but might be best kept-off list (although if the installed base ever grows to 10 systems or more I'd be shocked!). Enjoy. From spedraja at ono.com Sun Oct 27 14:45:00 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: For HP1000 / SIMH owners/users... References: <002201c27c42$e98d42f0$0100a8c0@voyager4> <009201c27c49$3230a1e0$24302b3e@sergio> <3DBC4E2C.4060202@tiac.net> Message-ID: <051101c27df9$b309fc60$24302b3e@sergio> Hello: > Check out: > > http://www.nc5.infi.net/~wrnewton/oldcomp/hp2100/ This link don't works. Greetings Sergio From bob at jfcl.com Sun Oct 27 16:53:00 2002 From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: DECstation-3000/400 Questions Message-ID: <02102714460668@jfcl.com> I picked up a DECstation-3000/400 (aka PE40A) at the flea market recently. It powers up OK (the power light comes on, the fans run, and checking the voltages on the power supply connector gives reasonable results) and all eight LEDs on the back panel turn on, but after that nothing. There's no video that I can find from the PMAGD card; there's no RS232 output on the console/printer port; changing S3 has no effect on either of these results, and the eight LEDs never change (always a bad sign!). I tried removing all the SCSI devices and all the Turbo channel cards (including the PMAG) just in case one of them was hanging it up, but it made no difference. Now there's nothing in there except the power supply, the mother board, and eight SIMMs on four riser cards. Same results. I have lots of VAXes, but this is my first Alpha machine and there might be something I don't know. Am I doing something stupid, or is it just dead? BTW, I only paid $1 for it, so I won't feel bad no matter what :-) Thanks, Bob Armstrong From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 27 17:27:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 repair details - more info In-Reply-To: <3DB6C5AA.9080809@exeter.ac.uk> from "M.Clemence" at Oct 23, 2 11:52:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1926 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021027/1c16ae5e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 27 17:27:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: NewBrain In-Reply-To: <000601c27b4b$e8595f10$fe00a8c0@Luis> from "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Luis_G=F3mez?=" at Oct 24, 2 12:55:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 324 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021027/ea711fba/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 27 17:28:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: For Sale: Diamond D5 Wordprocessor In-Reply-To: <20021027121239.89393.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Oct 27, 2 12:12:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 852 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021027/c0e70e61/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 27 17:30:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: modem help In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021026193515.0074d5b0@pop1.epm.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Oct 26, 2 07:35:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 629 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021027/3c82610f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 27 17:30:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: MAC's from N.A. > Africa? In-Reply-To: <20021027160237.NSZW5548.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> from "Mike" at Oct 27, 2 11:02:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 526 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021027/ac21f060/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 27 17:31:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD66@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 27, 2 04:22:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 551 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021027/e3b5d7f0/attachment.ksh From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Oct 27 17:39:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me References: Message-ID: <3DBC7942.5040706@jetnet.ab.ca> Brian Chase wrote: > On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Wait, I thought ads were allowed? Not that I particularly wish to be > innundated with commercial requests, and in particular, I'd hope that no > here would sell off their classic equipment to a reseller, but I see > plenty of ads on this list. Does the charter of the list indicate > that people can't sell or request to purchase equipment on the list? The list is to provide information about Classic Computers, and ads for old computers are useful. On the the other hand this list is not free adverising for Joe Blah's XT and Shoe emporioum. My gripe is the ads that are on some VHS movies. I payed good $$$, for the movie, why must pay for some stupid ad. From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Oct 27 17:49:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: DECstation-3000/400 Questions In-Reply-To: <02102714460668@jfcl.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Bob Armstrong wrote: > > I picked up a DECstation-3000/400 (aka PE40A) at the flea market recently. > It powers up OK (the power light comes on, the fans run, and checking the > voltages on the power supply connector gives reasonable results) and all > eight LEDs on the back panel turn on, but after that nothing. There's no > video that I can find from the PMAGD card; there's no RS232 output on the > console/printer port; changing S3 has no effect on either of these results, > and the eight LEDs never change (always a bad sign!). If the LEDS dont change it maybe a problem with power-good from the power supply (resulting in reset never being released) > > I tried removing all the SCSI devices and all the Turbo channel cards > (including the PMAG) just in case one of them was hanging it up, but it > made no difference. Now there's nothing in there except the power supply, > the mother board, and eight SIMMs on four riser cards. Same results. I would guess the problem is much earlier and more basic than anthing I/O related, if the LEDS are stuck at FF, the CPU never started... > > I have lots of VAXes, but this is my first Alpha machine and there might > be something I don't know. Am I doing something stupid, or is it just dead? Sounds dead to me... (Though it could possibly be resurrected) > > BTW, I only paid $1 for it, so I won't feel bad no matter what :-) > > Thanks, > Bob Armstrong > Peter Wallace From voyager at hol.gr Sun Oct 27 18:05:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: NewBrain References: Message-ID: <002e01c27e15$64ecaac0$0100a8c0@voyager4> Got them in ZIPed JPGs. If anybody needs them, email me and I will forward them to anybody interested. ( I saved you from digging) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 12:43 AM Subject: Re: NewBrain > > > > > > > > I'm looking for techbical information abou Grundy Newbrain computer. I > > need solve a little problem in my computer. > > Somewhere I have the Newbrain AD schematics, etc. The problem is, I can't > remember where I've put them.... > > Several other people want them too, so I am going to have to go digging... > > -tony > > From voyager at hol.gr Sun Oct 27 18:08:00 2002 From: voyager at hol.gr (Voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: NewBrain References: <000601c27b4b$e8595f10$fe00a8c0@Luis> Message-ID: <004f01c27e15$bf06ebb0$0100a8c0@voyager4> I 've just send them to you through email. I hope you will have enough space in your mailbox :-) Cheers George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luis G?mez" To: Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 12:55 PM Subject: NewBrain > > > I'm looking for techbical information abou Grundy Newbrain computer. I need solve a little problem in my computer. > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Oct 27 18:22:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: Fw: 4D 220 VGX: free for Shipping or Orlando,FL pickup Message-ID: <020b01c27e18$5ec6ffd0$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trenton Tuggle" Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi.marketplace,misc.forsale.computers.workstation,comp.sys.sgi.har dware Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 3:27 PM Subject: 4D 220 VGX: free for Shipping or Orlando,FL pickup > For free pickup (or cost of shipping and time/materials/trouble > involved, if you can figure out how to ship this beast) from Orlando, FL. > > I have an IRIS 4D 220 VGX deskside system which used to boot fine. > Haven't run it in several years, so I don't have the hinv on it, but it > has VGX graphics, 64MB ram, 2 ESDI HD's (unknown but presumably small > size) and one 9GB scsi drive which has not actually been set up for it. > Also has the QIC serpentine tape drive. > > Condition is pretty good, a few scratches here and there. The monitor > (I might have several I have to check) is alright, shows a little age. > Keyboard is good, but you might want to find another mouse. With this > mouse, I'm not sure whether or not it's the pad or the mouse, but the > horizontal direction doesn't work very well: you have to really press it > down hard on the optical pad to make it move horizontally. > > Two CPUs, not sure which rev. I believe IRIX 5.3 is installed, I might > be able to find some installation media, but not sure. > > Obviously the Power Series deskside systems are quite beastly, shipping > would probably be a fortune on it, but if you want, I can look into it. > I don't have a crate or anything, though. (they originally were > shipped in nice reusable wood crates, but alas, mine doesn't have it > anymore.) > > Please contact me *via email* with offers (offers to come pick it up!) > > -Trenton Tuggle > From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Oct 27 18:26:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: HPUX 10.20? Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021027162947.02db1540@mail.zipcon.net> Where can I get HPUX media to install a couple Apollo 700's? From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Oct 27 18:48:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:21 2005 Subject: CC Faq Trilogy was Re: I buy DEC equipment. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DBC3416.5653.30DF7C2@localhost> > > > > Wait, I thought ads were allowed? Not that I particularly wish to be > > innundated with commercial requests, and in particular, I'd hope that > > no > > here would sell off their classic equipment to a reseller, but I see > > plenty of ads on this list. Does the charter of the list indicate > > that people can't sell or request to purchase equipment on the list? > > Actually, there doesn't seem to be an answer. That part of the FAQ is > missing (http://www.classiccmp.org/faq.html). Are there any other > places on the 'net where there would be a complete version of this, or > was the rest never written? > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > The original was written by Bill Whitson who started the list. It came in 3 parts. The FAQ on the website is a partially rewritten one by Jeffery Sharp who Jay West the hoster of the list designated to assist him. He is to be commended, as handling the disparate and opinionated members can be a thankless job. In keeping with that tradition I am concerned that the original Faq charter is not on the site. Maintainers have the right to make changes, and I think the new cctalk and cctech format is good, but changes to the faq, especially on this list, should be handled with kid gloves. The relevent section is from the second part of the Faq: 2.4 Can I post advertisements? Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there are members of this list in a number of different countries. If your post is commercial, please be sure to indicate that in some way in the subject line. 2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to find yourself a computer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There has also been an understandable misconception on the list the last while by new members who, because of the large number of mini and DECcentric members, think that home micros are off-topic. Earlier, the opposite was addressed by the original owner. 2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations? There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again, while appreciating Jeffrey's efforts, the original Faq Trilogy should be on the site for comparison lest the new one goes too far astray. Lawrence Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jss at subatomix.com Sun Oct 27 18:50:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: good book on Pascal In-Reply-To: <000601c27da7$adfacb20$9933fea9@home> References: <000601c27da7$adfacb20$9933fea9@home> Message-ID: <26346579735.20021027185227@subatomix.com> On Sunday, October 27, 2002, Robert C Wittig wrote: > I have compiled the same programs, first to use brun.exe, and then to be > stand alone, and the stand alone versions are a lot bigger, and a lot > slower (this is especially noticeable in graphics shows, like fractal > displays). I might expect bigger, but I wouldn't expect *slower*. In general, interpreted things run more slowly than compiled things. If QuickBasic truly runs more slowly in compiled mode, I'd say it's a sign of a poor product. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sun Oct 27 18:54:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD6F@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD6F@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <96346788575.20021027185556@subatomix.com> On Sunday, October 27, 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > People can plug their services and/or goods here, if they are polite about > it. This guy.... (grumbl) wasn't. That post didn't come from a subscriber. I was going quickly through the moderation queue, and all I saw was "DEC equipment" in the subject line. Oops. -- Jeffrey Sharp From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Oct 27 18:58:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Fw: 4D 220 VGX: free for Shipping or Orlando,FL pickup In-Reply-To: <020b01c27e18$5ec6ffd0$7800a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > From: "Trenton Tuggle" > Newsgroups: > comp.sys.sgi.marketplace,misc.forsale.computers.workstation,comp.sys.sgi.har > dware > Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 3:27 PM > Subject: 4D 220 VGX: free for Shipping or Orlando,FL pickup > > > For free pickup (or cost of shipping and time/materials/trouble > > involved, if you can figure out how to ship this beast) from Orlando, > > FL. > > > > I have an IRIS 4D 220 VGX deskside system which used to boot fine. > > Haven't run it in several years, so I don't have the hinv on it, but > > it has VGX graphics, 64MB ram, 2 ESDI HD's (unknown but presumably > > small size) and one 9GB scsi drive which has not actually been set up > > for it. > > Also has the QIC serpentine tape drive. Certainly a nice "little" system. This is without a doubt a single tower deskside chassis, which really isn't exactly small ;) The hard drives in this system are actually SCSI, and I'd expect them to be at least a few 100MB, and quite likely 300-400MB or more in size. This is a really nice system for someone to rescue, especially with dual cpus and 64MB of ram. -Toth From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Oct 27 19:03:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: <11d.196b3889.2aed9072@aol.com> References: <11d.196b3889.2aed9072@aol.com> Message-ID: <1035767028.23585.11.camel@supermicro> On Sun, 2002-10-27 at 13:54, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > I would say that the three original manuals and the DOS SW contributes > mightily to the value to collectors. Maybe I'm just desensitized to the PCs since I grew up with these machines and used them for years. The documentation and DOS software aren't "rare" in any sense of the word. There are vendors on the 'net who carry NOS manual sets (including the HW refs and DOS). These manuals are out there in abundance, as well as a surplus of NOS parts. > When Items like this sell for such high values I notice they usually include > the original Software and manuals. Often they have the original boxes. > > Also condition is very important to collectors. This one purports to be in > near perfect condition which is somewhat rare in its own right. It is not unusual to find a PC in good condition as they hold up very well. I can put together the same machine (in as good or better condition) in an afternoon after placing a few phone calls. These machines and parts are out there - everywhere. There is nothing special about that PC, and I don't think it's value will appreciate to the stratospheric levels that some other machines have. Or maybe I'm wrong and the tide has turned (as observed in this auction.) > > Paxton > Astoria, OR From jss at subatomix.com Sun Oct 27 19:17:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: CC Faq Trilogy was Re: I buy DEC equipment. In-Reply-To: <3DBC3416.5653.30DF7C2@localhost> References: <3DBC3416.5653.30DF7C2@localhost> Message-ID: <79348146167.20021027191834@subatomix.com> On Sunday, October 27, 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > The original was written by Bill Whitson who started the list. It came in > 3 parts. Right. That one has now gone to that big /dev/null file in the sky. I'm working on a new one, as well as the CC web site. However, most of the time I devote to CC is spent moderating posts for cctech, so work goes *very* slowly. > changes to the faq, especially on this list, should be handled with kid > gloves. I'm not finished with it. > Again, while appreciating Jeffrey's efforts, the original Faq Trilogy > should be on the site for comparison lest the new one goes too far astray. The old faq had too much wrong information, pointing people to the wrong place for important things like subscribing, etc. But I'm no hypocrite, so since my in-progress FAQ isn't yet polished, I removed it as well. When I re-add it, I'll make sure the old one is linked to from somewhere. -- Jeffrey Sharp From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Oct 27 19:19:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me In-Reply-To: <3DBC7942.5040706@jetnet.ab.ca> References: Message-ID: >not free adverising for Joe Blah's XT and Shoe emporioum. My gripe >is the ads that are on some VHS movies. I payed good $$$, for the >movie, why must pay for some stupid ad. It gets worse with DVD's. At least with VHS tapes you can fast forward. With DVD, they can lock out your ability to skip past their commercials. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 27 19:47:05 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: sharp In-Reply-To: <3DBADA4E.1BD31FFE@intranet.ca> Message-ID: Which Mike are you talking to? This is a mailing list. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Jeff Konieczny wrote: > Hi Mike, > > I noticed on a Q&A board, you mentioned you have a sharp PC-1421 > handheld computer. I'm interested in possibly using it to help control > the stepping motors in a small robot, but I need the pinout for the > 11-pin > connector, and the memory location that controls them,.. > > Do you know where I can find that info? > > Thanks, > Jeff > > From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 27 19:48:04 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: vax 7610 needs home, cambridge massachusetts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If no-one wants the system, and it's headed for the dump, I would be interested in all the cards and cardcages, but I don't need the chassis, and I can't afford to take the whole machine. Peace... Sridhar On 26 Oct 2002 akb+lists.cctech@imap1.mirror.to wrote: > > Hi-- > > A friend has just told me that there is a VAX 7000-610 system > in cambridge mass looking for a home. > > The system is to be disposed of in the next week or so. > It's currently at a ground level loading dock. > It's a 3 cabinet system, storage peripherals include a pair of > ra92's, a tz857 stacker, a 9-track, and (I believe) 3 ba-350 shelves. > > I have warehouse space in the area and could be convinced to > temporarily hold the system for pickup. > > I'll read both this address and the list for any interest... > I have also written to the Rhode Island Retro-Computing Society, > other places to post to welcomed... (any appropriate usenet groups?) > > --akb > From Qstieee at aol.com Sun Oct 27 19:48:50 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Educational Computer Corporation ? Message-ID: <6F656581.5587FB0E.001A265C@aol.com> This could be right, because clearly "EDUcational COMPuter Corporation" could be shortened to "EduComp". EduComp was in the Hartford, Connecticut area in the mid-70's at least. EduComp morphed into QuoData, and QuoData morphed in Jenzabar. There is still a Quodata.com web site. When I dealt with EduComp they resold DEC 8's and 11's to schools along with some of their own software, plus co-developed ETOS on the 8's From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 27 19:49:31 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Need help with DSSI/SCSI and an ext CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <002201c27dc8$3593e010$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: That port isn't SCSI. It's DSSI. These machines don't have built-in SCSI. You need to get yourself a SCSI board. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > Hi, > > I need some help with a Vax 4000-200. I picked up an RRD43 CD-ROM drive and installed it into an external SCSI-1 enclosure. On the 4000-200 on the far left side of the QBus slots is a slot with 2 connectors, one appears to be a standard SCSI-1 connector and the other is an inverse SCSI-2 connector (labels Bus 0) with a terminator on it that lights up on power up. > > I attempted to hook up the RRD43 to the SCSI-1 connector and after power up at the >>> prompt I do a show device and show dssi and the internal DSSI drives and the TF85 show up, then it shows the ethernet AUI port and Mac address, but nothing on the SCSI devices (CD-ROM set to device #6, then I tried device #4, no change) Show SCSI shows nothing. > > So, what am I doing incorrectly??? Is that port usable as an external SCSI-1 connector??? I have a terminator installed on the Drive enclosure. I picked up a spare dual SCSI Qbus board, but before going down that road and having to set it up and such I just want to make sure that I can use the built in SCSI bus first (or not) Any and All help is greatly appreciated, I would really like to get OpenVMS installed on this unit and get it up and running, thanks. > > > Curt > From sieler at allegro.com Sun Oct 27 19:50:30 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3DBBDAFB.20067.28B05E@localhost> Re: > Well hell, I need like 18 5100s then... If I got $1200 apeice for em I could > pay off all my debts and likely have money to spare! One of the exhibitors at VCF 5.0 (www.vintage.org) has an IBM 5100 ... and posted on the wall above it are printouts of two IBM 5100 sales on eBay in the last two years. The most recent (which I missed seeing in real-time, and which has fallen off the search history database) sold for over $5,000! (I suspect that was in working condition, unlike the one sorcipit is selling.) -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Sun Oct 27 20:36:32 2002 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: cp/m favorite? Message-ID: <01KO65YUA43M934TA2@cc.usu.edu> Mark Tapley said: > As usual, my favorite is the DEC Rainbow. Z-80 for CP/M, 8088 for CP/M > 86-80, both available via anonymous update from ftp.update.uu.se, and you > can even run (early) MS-DOS, I gave up on teh Rainbow because it was not good enough as either a CP/M or MS-DOS box. The IOBYTE didn't work from the Z80, for instance. I kept running across MS-DOS software that needed PC compatibility. The COMMAND LINE version of Turbo C V1.2 made ROM BIOS calls. I had to trade with a friend who had purchased 1.0. My favorite was the DECmate II with the APU card. The IOBYTE worked, it's the only machine I've used with an intelligent hard disk partitioning scheme [1], and the terminal emulation was much faster than either the Rainbow or the PRO 350. [1] There was a simple filesystem managed by the 8051 that ran the hard disk. Creating a partition involved telling the 8051 to create the file. Mounting a partition involved telling the 8051 to open a file and associated it with a given drive number. -- Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Oct 27 22:23:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: <1035767028.23585.11.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: > Also condition is very important to collectors. This one purports to be in > near perfect condition which is somewhat rare in its own right. OTOH, earlier today, I saw a computer that was labeled as being "Original IBM XT in great condition" It also said that it originally had a 2MB drive, but now had 21MB. It also said that it originally had been 2 MHz, now 10 MHz. It had a generic keyboard. The front said IBM Personal Computer XT, but the back (and bottom chassis) were from a 5150 PC (labeled 5150, and with labeled hole for cassette), with the spaces and brackets for the expansion slots hacked away to fit an XT style board. (PC had 5 slots, XY had 8, closer together). It had aftermarket EGA video, aftermarket floppy (no DC37), aftermarket multi-function card, and presumably generic motherboard. Hmmm. seems like not a single one of the things that were said about it were correct. I did not think that it was worth the $35 they were asking for it. But to somebody else, that might be the find of the day, . . . YMMV -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Oct 27 22:35:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help In-Reply-To: <20021026191641.KOAC27186.imf03bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Thanks again, this drive does not have a "standard" power connector such as > is found on late-model 5.25" drives -- it only has a four-pin header. Not > being familiar with the SA400, I wasn't sure if this header was normal for > this drive, or if it was some user's modification. NOPE. The "standard" power connector on 5.25" floppy drives was copied from the SA400. Anything else is almost certainly modified. But modifications were not very rare. For example, the Apple][ used an SA390, which was the SA400 with different board. Some peddlers of aftermarket drives for the Apple used SA400 drives, and replaced the circuit board - which would result in different signal AND power connectors. > Not sure at all, but it certainly is professional-looking. Due to my > inexperience, I've never seen an SA400 before and I thought there might > have been variations. When you get a chance, try to trace out what it's connected to. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Oct 28 03:07:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: DECstation-3000/400 Questions In-Reply-To: <02102714460668@jfcl.com>; from bob@jfcl.com on Sun, Oct 27, 2002 at 23:46:06 CET References: <02102714460668@jfcl.com> Message-ID: <20021028100336.U38870@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.10.27 23:46 Bob Armstrong wrote: > I picked up a DECstation-3000/400 (aka PE40A) [...] > but this is my first Alpha machine \begin{pedantic} DECstations are the MIPS based predecessors to the TC Alphas. This is a DEC 3000/400. \end{pedantic} Non-changing LEDs is bad, _very_ bad. Did you tried to dismount and reassemble the whole machine? Somtimes a connector gets bad... The LED codes for the DEC3k machines can be found on page 14-5 (205) in the document ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/misc/dec-docs/ek-d3sys-pm.ps.gz -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Oct 28 03:08:54 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Wanted: KZQSA Adapter - Never mind In-Reply-To: <003901c27dd0$84c2e570$0b00a8c0@cvendel>; from curt@atari-history.com on Sun, Oct 27, 2002 at 16:50:05 CET References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD69@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <003501c27dcf$396cf760$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <003901c27dd0$84c2e570$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <20021028094931.S38870@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.10.27 16:50 Curt Vendel wrote: > Never mind, I have an M5976-SA which is a KZQSA, sorry.... Anyone > know how to configure this beastie and get the system to see it??? The KZQSA is a dump, non MSCP SCSI adapter. You need special ROM support in the CPU to be able to boot from it. The KA660 may not have this support. What you really want is a MSCP emulating SCSI adapter like my Dilog SQ706A. But this adapters are made out of pure unobtainium. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Oct 28 03:09:53 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Need help with DSSI/SCSI and an ext CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <002201c27dc8$3593e010$0b00a8c0@cvendel>; from curt@atari-history.com on Sun, Oct 27, 2002 at 15:50:36 CET References: <001301c27d72$ca607ce0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> <002201c27dc8$3593e010$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <20021028094341.Q38870@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.10.27 15:50 Curt Vendel wrote: > I need some help with a Vax 4000-200. I picked up an RRD43 > CD-ROM drive and installed it into an external SCSI-1 enclosure. On > the 4000-200 on the far left side of the QBus slots is a slot with 2 > connectors, one appears to be a standard SCSI-1 connector BA440??? This connector goes to the tape dirve bay above the PSU. There is no SCSI adapter on the MV4k200 / KA660 CPU bord, only DSSI. You would need a KZQSA (non MSCP QBus to SCSI adapter, intended for use as tape controller only) or the like. Then you can connect the SCSI bus of the adapter to that connector and mount a SCSI tape in the tape dirve bay. There are two connectors on the backplane in the tapge drive bay, one is DSSI, one is SCSI. > and the other is an inverse SCSI-2 connector (labels Bus 0) with a > terminator on it that lights up on power up. That is the DSSI bus. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From marvin at rain.org Mon Oct 28 04:46:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY References: Message-ID: <3DBD15F5.A884AC6F@rain.org> The cassette port was AFIK present on all IBM *PCs*. They may be harder to find now, but I probably have at least six of the IBM PCs with the cassette port and the 5 slots on the motherboard. One that is probably harder to find is the version with the 16K of memory soldered in with sockets for the other 48K (?). Will Jennings wrote: > > Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but if you can find the ones with the > cassette port easily, then I hate you. I've only ever found one, and the > case was in poor shape.. I pitched the case, but the mobo is sitting next to > me... HAH! Mine is more R@RE! LQQK! 37??3! than the Ebay one, cause I have > an 8087 marked "IBM".. Which, I must say, is something I haven't ever seen > before... And no, I'm not claiming that is indeed rare, beats me, I just > thought it was nifty... If I had kept all the PC stuff I had, I could likely > have made more than that auction, since I had the complete technical > references and troubleshooting diskettes and pretty much every genuine IBM > option you could want.. I have a CMI IBM HDD, and an ST-506 IBM HDD, > numerous IBM floppies, never have found the p-System, however.. But hell, I > had genuine IBM loopback plugs.. lol.. > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Oct 28 06:58:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: For HP1000 / SIMH owners/users... References: <002201c27c42$e98d42f0$0100a8c0@voyager4> <009201c27c49$3230a1e0$24302b3e@sergio> <3DBC4E2C.4060202@tiac.net> <051101c27df9$b309fc60$24302b3e@sergio> Message-ID: <3DBD358C.6080605@tiac.net> Sorry about the typo, the correct link is: http://www.nc5.infi.net/~wtnewton/oldcomp/hp2100 SP wrote: >Hello: > >>Check out: >> >>http://www.nc5.infi.net/~wrnewton/oldcomp/hp2100/ >> > >This link don't works. >Greetings > >Sergio > > > From curt at atari-history.com Mon Oct 28 07:37:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Wanted: KZQSA Adapter - Never mind References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD69@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <003501c27dcf$396cf760$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <003901c27dd0$84c2e570$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <20021028094931.S38870@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <000f01c27e87$2b5c7700$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Hmmmm, unobtainium huh??? Thats similar to Kryptonite I think ;-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jochen Kunz" To: Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 3:49 AM Subject: Re: Wanted: KZQSA Adapter - Never mind On 2002.10.27 16:50 Curt Vendel wrote: > Never mind, I have an M5976-SA which is a KZQSA, sorry.... Anyone > know how to configure this beastie and get the system to see it??? The KZQSA is a dump, non MSCP SCSI adapter. You need special ROM support in the CPU to be able to boot from it. The KA660 may not have this support. What you really want is a MSCP emulating SCSI adapter like my Dilog SQ706A. But this adapters are made out of pure unobtainium. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From curt at atari-history.com Mon Oct 28 07:40:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Jumpers on KZQSA's References: <001301c27d72$ca607ce0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> <002201c27dc8$3593e010$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <20021028094341.Q38870@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <001501c27e87$6e3866b0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Anyone have the technical data and jumper settings for the KZQSA SCSI boards???? Looks like mine is set to 761500 and I want to change it back to 761300. Curt From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Mon Oct 28 07:52:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Wanted: KZQSA Adapter - Never mind Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD78@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > Hmmmm, unobtainium huh??? Thats similar to Kryptonite I think ;-) No.. Kryptonite is sugar compared to Un. If you ever find someone you suspect of having, they'll fiercefully deny that... and then smile... --f From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Oct 28 08:58:01 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Paging Fred N. Van Kempen References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD6F@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <00e001c27e92$b75ac760$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Fred; I still have your package of 1/2 mag tape markers to send you, but I need your mailing address. I have tried several times to contact you via email but no response... please advise. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 12:51 PM Subject: RE: I buy DEC equipment. Call me > All, > > >>> Piss off... > >> Wait, I thought ads were allowed? > > Actually, there doesn't seem to be an answer. > My beef is with HOW it's done, not THAT it's done. People can > plug their services and/or goods here, if they are polite about > it. This guy.... (grumbl) wasn't. > > --fred > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Mon Oct 28 09:29:00 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: <11d.196b3889.2aed9072@aol.com> References: <11d.196b3889.2aed9072@aol.com> Message-ID: <3DBD5839.50800@dragonsweb.org> Innfogra@aol.com wrote: >I would say that the three original manuals and the DOS SW contributes >mightily to the value to collectors. > >When Items like this sell for such high values I notice they usually include >the original Software and manuals. Often they have the original boxes. > >Also condition is very important to collectors. This one purports to be in >near perfect condition which is somewhat rare in its own right. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR > > > > Also included CP/M-86 and UCSD P-system IV.0. NIB on the latter. Still way, way more than I'd pay for it. jbdigriz From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Mon Oct 28 09:40:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Paging Fred N. Van Kempen Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD7B@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Jay, Try replying to this address... _should_ work... --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 4:00 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Paging Fred N. Van Kempen > > > Fred; > > I still have your package of 1/2 mag tape markers to send > you, but I need > your mailing address. I have tried several times to contact > you via email > but no response... please advise. > > Jay West > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 12:51 PM > Subject: RE: I buy DEC equipment. Call me > > > > All, > > > > >>> Piss off... > > >> Wait, I thought ads were allowed? > > > Actually, there doesn't seem to be an answer. > > My beef is with HOW it's done, not THAT it's done. People can > > plug their services and/or goods here, if they are polite about > > it. This guy.... (grumbl) wasn't. > > > > --fred > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 28 09:55:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY Message-ID: I don't think I'd ever pay anything for a PC (5150 variety)... Only PCs that interest me are the 3270 PC, and the XT/370... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Oct 28 10:28:01 2002 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: For Sale: Diamond D5 Wordprocessor Message-ID: <20021028163019.48855.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> > But for those who've never heard > of it, let me provide a few details. thanks there to my sales agent... (ha ha, only kidding :) > The logic circuitry is on a lot of fairly small plug-in cards in a > cardcage inside. CPU, memory, 3 or 4 for the display, ditto for the > floppy controller, and a couple of interface cards for the keyboard and > printer. Or something like that anyway. There are no custom chips in > there that I am aware of. I pulled a few cards the other day when I took that photo of the insides - I was a little out on my dates; earliest copyright date I can see is 1977 and the last manufacturing date on any chip was sometime in 1979. card list sounds about right without wheeling the machine out of storage again, and no I didn't see any custom chips in my machine either. Think there are only two boards for the display, joined both on the backplane and the outer edge. Then CPU, memory, RTC, keyboard, drives x2, printer, and an unknown board (see below) > The printer (at least on mine) is a Hitype II. With that strange 50 pin > interface (separate control lines for selecting a character, deciding how > far to advance the carriage/paper, and so on). curious. Mine's definitely a Diablo unit and plugs into its own card within the cardcage in the system unit. But there's also a seperate card in there (oddly, marked as Diablo!) with a large connector on the outer edge (2 rows of pins, non-staggered) with nothing plugged into it. I have no idea what that's for - that connector looks purposeful though. There's not a huge amount of logic inside this thing so I suppose figuring out a circuit diagram wouldn't be too difficult and maybe then its function would be revealed. oh, and it's a 'proper' machine, in that it has wheels on the bottom ;-) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jmkatcher at yahoo.com Mon Oct 28 10:31:01 2002 From: jmkatcher at yahoo.com (Jeffrey Katcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Looking for Symmetric 375 Message-ID: <20021028053124.37854.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> It's kind of an odd thing, but does anyone have a Symmetric 375 box that they want to pass to a good home. I remember wanting one badly when they were new and my memory was just jogged by seeing one at VCF. (It's a small 32016 based box running more or less BSD 4.2. Something with personality. Gosh I miss my Symbolics 3620...different of course, but certainly unique.) Many thanks in advance, Jeff Katcher jmkatcher@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From baytek at ixir.com Mon Oct 28 10:31:45 2002 From: baytek at ixir.com (Superonline) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: DN4x0 Message-ID: <000801c27eab$a0254660$38af83d9@TechnicalManager> Sorry John but your e-mail was scrambled as shown below. Pls resend it.. Thanks. Birol AYTEK I don't remember... help.. John Allain cctech@classiccmp.org Wed Jul 17 21:12:00 2002 a.. Previous message: Bootstrapping a CP/M system to usability :) b.. Next message: Bootstrapping a CP/M system to usability :) c.. Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How about a DN4x0 series? The tape drives were probably cypher 880's. The disk drives were probably FSD/SMD. Check with Birol Aytek in Oxnard or Charlie Mengler -- they might know a bit more John A. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021028/faaae7db/attachment.html From woftbo at cox.net Mon Oct 28 10:32:26 2002 From: woftbo at cox.net (WOFTBO Data Recovery) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd Message-ID: <006b01c27e7b$d6644d50$6400a8c0@kitchen> I have been searching for information regarding the assembly of a Micropolis 1991 hard drive. What is the best method to disassemble the case to access the latching area? Dave S -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021028/b339464a/attachment.html From jwest at imail.kwcorp.com Mon Oct 28 10:43:00 2002 From: jwest at imail.kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Supply of DEC 11/23 11/73 front panel switches Message-ID: <016d01c27e9f$5333d1c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Found at a local surplus dealer... a whole container of those square white pushbutton switches that I am pretty certain are the ones used on the "front panel" of the 11/23 or 11/73 systems. They have the following markings.... ITW 39-23 301 R 39-23100 89 16 I think they had them marked at 0.59 each, if these are the right ones (got it at work actually, haven't had a chance to go home and check they are the right ones) and anyone wants any, let me know. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Oct 28 10:46:00 2002 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Swapping boards on ST225 drives / Philips P3800 help Message-ID: <20021028164835.79272.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Dusting off my old Diamond system the other day got me thinking about trying to resurrect my Phillips P3800 (some sort of multi-user CP/M platform, early 80's I believe). It's another garage resident that I acquired a few years ago and then never had time to restore. It had been the victim of a basement flood when I got it and was dead as a dodo - plus the hard drive had roasted itself (I believe when the previous owner turned it on when it was still soaking wet, which is always such a very good idea...) I'm going from memory here, but believe that the hard drive is an ST225 - and the main logic board on the base of the unit was pretty well charred. What I did was find an identical model working drive and use its logic board with the frame and platters from the drive in the Phillips unit. Am I wasting my time even trying that? Or, assuming the data is intact on the platters still and survived the flooding, might I get a usuable drive by trying that? Maybe the logic boards are calibrated against some of the mechanical components within the drive for all I know. When I tried this the drive would at least then spin up (using a standard PC power supply for testing), but without fixing the power supply in the Philips and figuring out how to connect something to it (there's a whole pile of cables hanging out the back, to one of which presumably some sort of console connects) I don't yet know if I can actually read any data off it. Unfortunately I have no manuals for the unit, no system disks, no idea of the cabling, a possibly-dead hard drive, and a definitely-dead power supply. I'm also missing a tape drive for it (previous owner wanted to keep that) but hopefully it'll run without it. Never found anyone else who has heard of one of these, let alone owns one. On the plus side, the case is a nice shade of beige ;-) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 28 11:01:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: OT Re: Naming Computers (strategy, and WHY) Message-ID: Once again, I am glad to be an only child! Perhaps you should add "frequently abuse brother with heavy blunt object" to your list? Kidding... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 28 11:03:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Fw: 4D 220 VGX: free for Shipping or Orlando,FL pickup Message-ID: Eh? How are they SCSI? I had one of these once, the drive in it was most definetly a Hitachi ESDI disk... They're such cool looking machines, too... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From altertech at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Oct 28 11:06:01 2002 From: altertech at blueyonder.co.uk (altertech@blueyonder.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Origin of "half-inched" - OT Message-ID: <15f401c27ea5$1c7b4720$7635bcc3@blueyonder.net> -----Original Message----- From: "cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org" on behalf of "Hans B Pufal" Sent: 27 October 2002 20:16 To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" Subject: Re: Origin of "half-inched" - OT snip < I recently heard from Bob King that "it was born shortly < after Sir Robert Peel introduced and implemented his idea for a Police < force. The criminal fraternity had never been faced with such a < concerted effort to thwart them, so they developed Cockney Slang, the < idea of which being that, two or more criminals could hold open Honestly, I would've expected you Brits to say "nicked", but yeah.. FYI further synonyms (american) would be jacked, ganked, swiped, etc. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 28 11:12:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 (fwd) Message-ID: $5,000? Good God, that computer is worth more than the car I drive as my daily transportation... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From pat at transarc.ibm.com Mon Oct 28 11:15:01 2002 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Anybody want Varian 620/F Reference Handbook? Message-ID: I stopped by at the only used bookstore in downtown Pittsburgh last week. It appears that the place is getting ready to fold, as they've got everything on sale at ridiculously low prices, and there is a big "BUILDING FOR SALE" sign in the front window.... Since they've started liquidating, they've been letting people up on to their second floor, which was always their storage and "we'll never be able to sell this stuff..." area, and was always off-limits to customers in the past. In adventuring around up there, I found two copies of the Varian 620/F Reference Handbook, dated November 1970. This isn't really in my area of interest, but at $1.00/each, I couldn't resist, and I figured that there might be people here who would like them. Both copies are in reasonably good shape, though both have suffered a bit from being stored in a bad environment (this shop's storage floor is open to the sky in a couple of places - probably one reason they never wanted to let customers up there....). One has a small tear in the cover. If you want one of these, it's yours for the cost of shipping. Limit of one per customer. First two responses get 'em. --Pat. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 28 11:24:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help Message-ID: <200210281724.JAA02430@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > >On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: >> Can anyone help me with settings on this drive? >> Specifically, drive select, termination, and pinouts on the power connector >> (J2) would help. > >Same as the other 5.25" drives. That's why they are called "SA400 >interface". Such as drive selects on pins 10, 12, 14, . . . > >But some newer drives have added SIDE SELECT (for double sided drives), >and "density" for multi-media drives, such as 1.2M. > >Termination is required on the last drive on the cable. Lack of proper >termination can make for flaky operation, but will not generally >prevent it from working. Hi One should note that double termination can also cause flaky operation as well. I've seen it twice now that I have a machine that has a flaky disk and I open it up and see a terminator on both drives. Removing one brings back normal operation. One of the machines was a KayPro and the other was my Olivetti M20. I suspect that these were that way from the beginning since both normally ship as dual drive machines. Dwight > >Power connection isthe same as all other (well, ALMOST all) 5.25" drives. > >The SA400 is a 48TPI, 35 track drive. Most drives that replaced it added >another 5 tracks. > >> Also, the specimen I have has a power switch on the front which appears to >> be factory-installed. Is this common for this drive? The photos I found >> on the 'net don't have a switch . . . > >I've never seen a factory switch on the front of one. Are you sure that >that wasn't a user added switch, such as one to override the write-protect >for flippies? > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > > From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 28 11:37:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: HPUX 10.20? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021027162947.02db1540@mail.zipcon.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021027162947.02db1540@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20021028173907.GL279206@uiuc.edu> I've got a dd'd cdimage of 10.20 dated march 2000. if you want to get a "legitimate" copy from HP...good luck :) If you don't mind a 500MB download I can make it available...otherwise I might be able to mail you a CD, but no promises on when I'd remember to do it. Geoff Reed said: > Where can I get HPUX media to install a couple Apollo 700's? - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Oct 28 11:49:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help Message-ID: <20021028175058.GFXS579.imf24bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > When you get a chance, try to trace out what it's connected to. It bypasses the write-protect switch; when in the "on" position, write-protect is enabled. Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Oct 28 11:49:49 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Swapping boards on ST225 drives / Philips P3800 help Message-ID: <20021028175109.GGCZ579.imf24bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Jules Richardson > I'm going from memory here, but believe that the hard drive is an ST225 - and > the main logic board on the base of the unit was pretty well charred. What I > did was find an identical model working drive and use its logic board with the > frame and platters from the drive in the Phillips unit. Am I wasting my time > even trying that? Not at all. I've salvaged ST225s before by board-swapping, with good results. Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Oct 28 11:55:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help Message-ID: <20021028175727.GMGT579.imf24bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Dwight K. Elvey > One should note that double termination can also cause flaky > operation as well. I've seen it twice now that I have a machine > that has a flaky disk and I open it up and see a terminator > on both drives. Would you and Fred please define "flaky?" What symptoms are exhibited by an improperly terminated drive? Thanks -- Glen 0/0 From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 28 12:07:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd Message-ID: <200210281808.KAA02470@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "WOFTBO Data Recovery" > >I have been searching for information regarding the assembly of a Micropolis 1991 hard drive. > >What is the best method to disassemble the case to access the latching area? > >Dave S Hi I've found that a hammer and a chisel work best with Micropolis drives. But that is just my opinion. Dwight From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 28 12:38:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > $5,000? Good God, that computer is worth more than the car I drive as my > daily transportation... Did your car have an APL option? From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 28 12:47:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help In-Reply-To: <20021028175727.GMGT579.imf24bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Would you and Fred please define "flaky?" What symptoms are exhibited by > an improperly terminated drive? a higher than normal incidence of errors. ANY disk system will occasionally produce errors, but hopefully in a statistically negligible quantity. Certain factors, such as incorrect termination, can significantly increase the probability of errors. It still works, but not as reliably as "normal". It can be a minor increase in errors, or it can render it to a state of barely working - "it just works". (see also: Microsoft Windows) From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 28 12:50:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: disassembly In-Reply-To: <200210281808.KAA02470@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > >What is the best method to disassemble the case to access the latching area? > Hi > I've found that a hammer and a chisel work Gallagher's sledge-o-matic will do it, but you have to hit it just right. From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Oct 28 13:09:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd References: <200210281808.KAA02470@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3DBD8BAD.6090106@eoni.com> High explosives work well too. Shaped charge. (Why would *anyone* want to get inside a Micropolis drive? They're best used as doorstops.) Jim Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >>From: "WOFTBO Data Recovery" >> >>I have been searching for information regarding the assembly of a Micropolis > > 1991 hard drive. > >>What is the best method to disassemble the case to access the latching area? >> >>Dave S > > > Hi > I've found that a hammer and a chisel work > best with Micropolis drives. But that is just my > opinion. > Dwight > > > . > From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 28 13:14:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Fw: 4D 220 VGX: free for Shipping or Orlando,FL pickup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > Eh? How are they SCSI? I had one of these once, the drive in it was most > definetly a Hitachi ESDI disk... They're such cool looking machines, > too... If the system is a dual tower configuration, it almost always uses ESDI drives, but the single tower deskside 'cubes' always have a SCSI bus in them. AFAIK, the dual tower was retired around the time of the 2x0, so I guess it could indeed use ESDI drives. I have yet to have seen a 2x0 in a dual tower, but I suppose they might exist. A photo of the system itself would pretty much clear it up. The cpu boards in these are actually interchangeable for the most part, and the deskside chassis can accept up to two such boards with up to two cpus each for a total of 4 processors. The predator rack chassis support up to 4 cpu boards for a total of 8 cpus. -Toth From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 28 13:37:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:22 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help Message-ID: <200210281935.LAA02524@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Glen Goodwin" > >> From: Dwight K. Elvey > >> One should note that double termination can also cause flaky >> operation as well. I've seen it twice now that I have a machine >> that has a flaky disk and I open it up and see a terminator >> on both drives. > >Would you and Fred please define "flaky?" What symptoms are exhibited by >an improperly terminated drive? Hi This can vary, from not working at all to the occational bad read or bad write of a sector. Some times it shows up as a data dependent problem. The disk formats fine but can't write all 1's or all 0's. In both of my cases, it would occationally damaged data on a write that would show up as a non-recoverable CRC error. Although it is recommended that the termination be on the last drive on the cable. I've never found it an issue when the two end drives cable connectors are only 2 to 3 inches apart. I have been known to put the termination, where ever it is handy, while trouble shooting( such as swapping drive ). I also alway tape the terminator to the drive that I remove it from. I don't know if I or someone in the future will need that terminator. If it is right there, I know it is the right one. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 28 13:41:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd Message-ID: <200210281942.LAA02529@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I see the rest seem to have a similar opinion of this manufactures drives. I got mine from experience. Dwight >From: "Jim Arnott" > >High explosives work well too. Shaped charge. > >(Why would *anyone* want to get inside a Micropolis drive? They're best >used as doorstops.) > >Jim > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >>>From: "WOFTBO Data Recovery" >>> >>>I have been searching for information regarding the assembly of a Micropolis >> >> 1991 hard drive. >> >>>What is the best method to disassemble the case to access the latching area? >>> >>>Dave S >> >> >> Hi >> I've found that a hammer and a chisel work >> best with Micropolis drives. But that is just my >> opinion. >> Dwight >> >> >> . >> > > > From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Oct 28 13:43:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Available: IBM 3164 terminals Message-ID: There's a few IBM 3164 terminals down at Purdue University Salvage and Surplus that are about to be thrown out. If anyone wants one, let me know, and I'll ship them for $5 + packing stuff + shipping. Respond soon, they'll probably be gone in a day or two. Pat -- "The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted BASIC." -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Oct 28 13:50:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd In-Reply-To: <3DBD8BAD.6090106@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Jim Arnott wrote: > (Why would *anyone* want to get inside a Micropolis drive? They're best > used as doorstops.) I can't find it online anymore, but about two years ago I stumbled across this fascinating article which discussed the demise of Micropolis, presenting it as a case study of business fraud. My favorite highlight had to do with Micropolis claiming much larger inventories of hard drives than they actually had. This was to make the company look as if it were more valuable. This excess inventory was primarily made up of a special class of hard drive, which in the company records were listed as "very hard drives". In reality they were bricks that had been boxed in Micropolis packaging. Apparently a few of them were even shipped to customers. I'd add the personal note that at least Micropolis were good enough to ship a device which was functionally equivalent to their regular hard drives. -brian. From spedraja at ono.com Mon Oct 28 14:06:00 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: For HP1000 / SIMH owners/users... References: <002201c27c42$e98d42f0$0100a8c0@voyager4> <009201c27c49$3230a1e0$24302b3e@sergio> <3DBC4E2C.4060202@tiac.net> <051101c27df9$b309fc60$24302b3e@sergio> <3DBD358C.6080605@tiac.net> Message-ID: <01df01c27ebd$a347b6e0$6f4f2b3e@sergio> Thank you, Bob. I shall try it. In appeareance. Bob Supnik is developing one stable version of the HP2100 simulator, and it's possible we could have one simulator with operative simulated devices in a couple of weeks from now. Greetings Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Shannon To: Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 2:03 PM Subject: Re: For HP1000 / SIMH owners/users... > Sorry about the typo, the correct link is: > > http://www.nc5.infi.net/~wtnewton/oldcomp/hp2100 > > SP wrote: > > >Hello: > > > >>Check out: > >> > >>http://www.nc5.infi.net/~wrnewton/oldcomp/hp2100/ > >> > > > >This link don't works. > >Greetings > > > >Sergio > > > > > > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 28 14:13:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd In-Reply-To: References: <3DBD8BAD.6090106@eoni.com> Message-ID: <2979.4.20.168.211.1035836113.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I can't find it online anymore, but about two years ago I stumbled > across this fascinating article which discussed the demise of > Micropolis, presenting it as a case study of business fraud. > > My favorite highlight had to do with Micropolis claiming much larger > inventories of hard drives than they actually had. This was to make the > company look as if it were more valuable. This excess inventory was > primarily made up of a special class of hard drive, which in the company > records were listed as "very hard drives". In reality they were bricks > that had been boxed in Micropolis packaging. Micropolis had their own problems, but I don't think we should accuse them with out-and-out fraud without researching it a bit further. The company that shipped bricks was Miniscribe, and one of their executives was finally convicted when it was discovered that he'd actually purchased the bricks on his credit card. (Note to self: when buying materials for an inventory scam, pay cash.) I very much doubt that any company records used the phrase "very hard drives", since that wasn't brought up by the prosecution in the trial. Sounds more like a clever phrase a reporter came up with. > Apparently a few of them were even shipped to customers. The true story may never be known, but I don't think any shipped to customers that weren't aware of the plan. Some customers may have agreed to help Miniscribe with their inventory problems (as in lack of), because the customer may have been more interested in the promise of a real drive delivered later than the company going out of business sooner. One of the surplus stores in the Denver area had a brick in their display case with their disk drives; the brink had a sign saying "Miniscribe 40MB". However, it was not an *actual* Miniscribe brick. Miniscribe was acquired by Maxtor and was known for a time as "Maxtor Colorado". The only complaint I had with Micropolis was that their drives had a very high failure rate. From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Oct 28 14:14:15 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51270AB@MAIL10> I just read about this in the A2FAQ. Does anyone have this Apple ][ ROM and manual? Rich From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 28 14:16:01 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: HPUX 10.20? In-Reply-To: <20021028173907.GL279206@uiuc.edu> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021027162947.02db1540@mail.zipcon.net> <20021028173907.GL279206@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20021028201653.GA326466@uiuc.edu> Oh, uh... that was supposed to go private email...sorry about that. To cctalk@classiccmp.org said: > I've got a dd'd cdimage of 10.20 dated march 2000. if you want to get a > "legitimate" copy from HP...good luck :) > > If you don't mind a 500MB download I can make it available...otherwise I might > be able to mail you a CD, but no promises on when I'd remember to do it. > > Geoff Reed said: > > Where can I get HPUX media to install a couple Apollo 700's? > - Dan Wright > (dtwright@uiuc.edu) > (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > > -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- > ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From hansp at aconit.org Mon Oct 28 14:28:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Educational Computer Corporation ? References: <6F656581.5587FB0E.001A265C@aol.com> Message-ID: <3DBD9E45.3060104@aconit.org> EduComp COULD be it but Joe Rigdon's ECC Corp in Orlando appears to be what I want. They do not have a web site that I have found but the information I gleaned from their finicnial news etc seems to indicate that they are the ones I am looking for. Now I am waiting on the exact specs of the machine before taking up contact by letter or telephone. Thanks for the help, -- hbp From pat at transarc.ibm.com Mon Oct 28 14:36:01 2002 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Varian books claimed, thanks! Message-ID: From spedraja at ono.com Mon Oct 28 14:45:01 2002 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: For HP1000 / SIMH owners/users... References: <002201c27c42$e98d42f0$0100a8c0@voyager4> <009201c27c49$3230a1e0$24302b3e@sergio> <3DBC4E2C.4060202@tiac.net> <051101c27df9$b309fc60$24302b3e@sergio> <3DBD358C.6080605@tiac.net> <01df01c27ebd$a347b6e0$6f4f2b3e@sergio> Message-ID: <023801c27ec3$08f52040$6f4f2b3e@sergio> Sorry, my previous message was private. Sergio From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 28 15:06:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51270AB@MAIL10> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51270AB@MAIL10> Message-ID: <4513.4.20.168.211.1035839265.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Rich wrote: > I just read about this in the A2FAQ. Does anyone have this Apple ][ ROM > and manual? If you've got a DOS 3.3 Master diskette (or a "BASICS" diskette), you've got the ROM image. It's in the INTBASIC file on the DOS 3.3 Master. I've got a manual, somewhere. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Mon Oct 28 15:58:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? Message-ID: Anyone out there want to enlighten us poor slobs stuck on the wrong side of the continent? Anyone putting any pictures on the web? Thanks From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Mon Oct 28 16:04:00 2002 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Fw: 4D 220 VGX: free for Shipping or Orlando,FL pickup Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16D60@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> The older SGI 4D twin towers (professional series) used a SCSI bus that was routed through a connector arrangement up through the smaller drive tower. Unfortunately, I seem to remember that because of the stub length off of these connectors, it violated the SCSI specs pretty badly. My guess is that because the early CPU cards that were fitted in these systems (IP4 and IP4.5) only supported async. scsi, they were more forgiving than a sync. system would be. BTW, I believe that one of the reasons for using ESDI vs. SCSI in these critters was that, at the time, the ESDI drive/controller combo was quite a bit faster than async. SCSI. They intended the SCSI interface for peripheral access only... That said, I did manage to get a SCSI drive working in one, but since I had the ESDI controller and drives, it didn't seem worth it at the time to pursue it further... As far as the twin tower power series, my memory fails me... I don't remember when they began supporting sync. SCSI, but my guess is that it began with the power-series CPU boards. -al- -acorda@1bigred.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 2:16 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Fw: 4D 220 VGX: free for Shipping or Orlando,FL pickup > > > On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > > > Eh? How are they SCSI? I had one of these once, the drive > in it was most > > definetly a Hitachi ESDI disk... They're such cool looking machines, > > too... > > If the system is a dual tower configuration, it almost always > uses ESDI > drives, but the single tower deskside 'cubes' always have a > SCSI bus in > them. AFAIK, the dual tower was retired around the time of > the 2x0, so I > guess it could indeed use ESDI drives. I have yet to have > seen a 2x0 in a > dual tower, but I suppose they might exist. A photo of the > system itself > would pretty much clear it up. > > The cpu boards in these are actually interchangeable for the > most part, > and the deskside chassis can accept up to two such boards > with up to two > cpus each for a total of 4 processors. The predator rack > chassis support > up to 4 cpu boards for a total of 8 cpus. > > -Toth > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 28 16:05:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd Message-ID: <200210282206.OAA02602@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Eric Smith" > >> I can't find it online anymore, but about two years ago I stumbled >> across this fascinating article which discussed the demise of >> Micropolis, presenting it as a case study of business fraud. >> >> My favorite highlight had to do with Micropolis claiming much larger >> inventories of hard drives than they actually had. This was to make the >> company look as if it were more valuable. This excess inventory was >> primarily made up of a special class of hard drive, which in the company >> records were listed as "very hard drives". In reality they were bricks >> that had been boxed in Micropolis packaging. > >Micropolis had their own problems, but I don't think we should accuse >them with out-and-out fraud without researching it a bit further. >The company that shipped bricks was Miniscribe, and one of their >executives was finally convicted when it was discovered that he'd >actually purchased the bricks on his credit card. (Note to self: >when buying materials for an inventory scam, pay cash.) > >I very much doubt that any company records used the phrase "very hard >drives", since that wasn't brought up by the prosecution in the trial. >Sounds more like a clever phrase a reporter came up with. > >> Apparently a few of them were even shipped to customers. > >The true story may never be known, but I don't think any shipped to >customers that weren't aware of the plan. Some customers may have >agreed to help Miniscribe with their inventory problems (as in lack >of), because the customer may have been more interested in the promise >of a real drive delivered later than the company going out of business >sooner. > >One of the surplus stores in the Denver area had a brick in their >display case with their disk drives; the brink had a sign saying >"Miniscribe 40MB". However, it was not an *actual* Miniscribe brick. > >Miniscribe was acquired by Maxtor and was known for a time as "Maxtor >Colorado". > >The only complaint I had with Micropolis was that their drives had a >very high failure rate. Hi At the last company I was at, we never had one ( Micropolis ) complete a 1 week burnin ( at room temp ), until they fiddled with something and the rate dropped to only about 3 out of ten per week. I knew we were making a mistake, at the begining when they said that they would give us free engineering time to help use get their drives to work on our machines. I stated such to management but was ignored. Dwight From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 28 16:06:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: For Sale: Diamond D5 Wordprocessor In-Reply-To: <20021028163019.48855.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, [iso-8859-1] Jules Richardson wrote: > > The printer (at least on mine) is a Hitype II. With that strange 50 pin > > curious. Mine's definitely a Diablo unit and plugs into its own card within the Hitype ii IS DIABLO From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Oct 28 16:17:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021028160947.04ea7e38@ubanproductions.com> It was a great event, thanks to Sellam and his help. I live in the Chicago area, but happened to be in the San Jose area for VCF 5.0. The talks that I went to were quite interesting and in talking to Bruce Damer, the founder of http://www.digibarn.com , I was able to hook up with Howard Palmer, the originator of mazewar on the Imlac. Druce has a nice story about the history of mazewar on his site. Since I have a running Imlac (which I took to VCF East 1.0, I was very interested in finding out if the source for mazewar was still around, and I now have a copy. Hopefully, I will be able to make the necessary additions to my Imlac assembler to allow me to assemble the code and run it on my Imlac. If Bob Shannon were to build a long vector board for his Imlac, then we might be able to play mazewar against each other. When I finally finish my work on my Imlac emulator, others will hopefully be able to play it as well. So, for me, VCF 5.0 was wonderful! I got to meet a number of interesting people, etc. Sorry, but I didn't take any pics of significance at the show. I'm sure that some will show up on the http://www.vintage.org site in the not too distant future. --tom At 04:59 PM 10/28/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Anyone out there want to enlighten us poor slobs >stuck on the wrong side of the continent? Anyone >putting any pictures on the web? > >Thanks From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Oct 28 16:26:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd In-Reply-To: <2979.4.20.168.211.1035836113.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Micropolis had their own problems, but I don't think we should accuse > them with out-and-out fraud without researching it a bit further. > The company that shipped bricks was Miniscribe, and one of their > executives was finally convicted when it was discovered that he'd > actually purchased the bricks on his credit card. (Note to self: > when buying materials for an inventory scam, pay cash.) > > [...] Ah, my mistake. It was MiniScribe I was thinking about. At least I know why my search on Micropolis for this didn't turn up anything. -brian. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Oct 28 16:30:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c27ed1$cc046560$90f8b8ce@impac.com> Funny you should ask. I was just uploading some quick snapshots and thumbnails. Take a look at: http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/VCF5/ImageMap1.htm and http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/VCF5/ImageMap2.htm I'll be cleaning those up later, I hope. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill Sudbrink Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 2:00 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? Anyone out there want to enlighten us poor slobs stuck on the wrong side of the continent? Anyone putting any pictures on the web? Thanks From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 28 16:48:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But I liked their floppy drives! Helical lead screw, 48TPI models and 100TPI models (instead of 96TPI) The helical lead screw made it very slow, but quite reliable. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 28 17:49:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Oct 27, 2 08:25:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1027 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021028/1de500e4/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 17:52:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: I buy DEC equipment. Call me In-Reply-To: <000001c27aa2$65435f80$0b01a8c0@WinProxy> Message-ID: What an ass. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 28 17:52:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Oct 27, 2 08:37:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 657 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021028/0c4331c8/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 17:53:38 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: <001601c27af7$66091fe0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, John Galt wrote: > 31 bidders. 4 willing to pay over $700. Are these machines in good > condition really that rare? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2062770257 No, but I'll bet the chips inside are worth a fortune. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 28 18:24:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: For Sale: Diamond D5 Wordprocessor In-Reply-To: <20021028163019.48855.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Oct 28, 2 04:30:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 707 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021028/2318c6a7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 28 18:28:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Swapping boards on ST225 drives / Philips P3800 help In-Reply-To: <20021028164835.79272.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Oct 28, 2 04:48:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1333 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021028/00a28416/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 18:49:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: <1035767028.23585.11.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: On 27 Oct 2002, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > It is not unusual to find a PC in good condition as they hold up very > well. I can put together the same machine (in as good or better > condition) in an afternoon after placing a few phone calls. These > machines and parts are out there - everywhere. There is nothing special > about that PC, and I don't think it's value will appreciate to the > stratospheric levels that some other machines have. Or maybe I'm wrong > and the tide has turned (as observed in this auction.) It's temporary. Once more and more IBM PC's start to get drug out of closets and garages and put up for auction to reap hundreds of dollars, the auction prices will fall. The same thing has happened to so many other common computers before. It is a perceived rarity because many people only collect on auction sites and are myopic otherwise. Once the auctions get flooded with the same item, then the "rarity" factor is reduced. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 18:58:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Symmetric 375 In-Reply-To: <20021028053124.37854.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Jeffrey Katcher wrote: > It's kind of an odd thing, but does anyone have a Symmetric 375 box that > they want to pass to a good home. I remember wanting one badly when they > were new and my memory was just jogged by seeing one at VCF. > > (It's a small 32016 based box running more or less BSD 4.2. Something > with personality. Gosh I miss my Symbolics 3620...different of course, > but certainly unique.) These are rare beasts. The first one I ever saw was exhibited at VCF Europa 1.0 (it has made a repeat performance every VCF Europa since). The one you saw at the VCF was the original prototype, and the woman you saw sitting in front of it was Lynn Jolitz, the person who wrote the BSD port for it. There are a couple of them going into the VCF Archive museum. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 19:02:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Anybody want Varian 620/F Reference Handbook? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This reminds me. For you Sillycon Valley folks, there is a small business park right around the intersection of Central Expressway and Lawrence Expressway that is labelled "Varian" on the door and has the classic (or what I think to be) Varian logo. You can see it if you are entering Central eastbound from Lawrence southbound (i.e. as if you are heading to Halted). Is this, in fact, an office of Varian Data Systems? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 19:03:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51270AB@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Cini, Richard wrote: > I just read about this in the A2FAQ. Does anyone have this Apple ][ ROM and > manual? I have it...somewhere. I assume you want a copy of it ;) I pretty much know what boxes it will be in (they are labelled). If no one else comes forward I can dig it out in the next couple of weeks. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 28 19:06:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > modifications were not very rare. For example, the Apple][ used an SA390, > > which was the SA400 with different board. Some peddlers of aftermarket On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I always believed that the circuit board on an Apple Disk II was an Apple > desting. Are you saying it was actually a standard one, used by other > companies too? Correction to my previous post: the SA390 appears to be an SA400 WITHOUT a board, to which other companies (Apple, etc.) added their own board. > The real Disk II has a single 20 pin header for both power and signals. > There's +12V on at least one of the pins, and if you mis-mate the > connector, it ends up connected to a TTL input. Great! The original post on this thread mentioned not having a "standard" floppy power connector (Molex), and not knowing the pinout of the connector(s). Could it be that his SA400 is an aftermarket drive for Apple (or something else), where the Shugart board was replaced by something weirder? From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 19:07:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: <4513.4.20.168.211.1035839265.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Rich wrote: > > I just read about this in the A2FAQ. Does anyone have this Apple ][ ROM > > and manual? > > If you've got a DOS 3.3 Master diskette (or a "BASICS" diskette), you've > got the ROM image. It's in the INTBASIC file on the DOS 3.3 Master. > > I've got a manual, somewhere. And of course if you boot the DOS 3.3 System Master on a 64K Apple ][, it will load the Integer BASIC ROM image (containing the Programmer's Aid ROM) into the upper 16K of memory. Then you can switch into Integer BASIC from Applesoft BASIC by typing 'INT' (which is a DOS command). To get back to Applesoft type 'FP' (for Floating Point, as in floating point BASIC). INT basically bank-switches in the ROM image in RAM. You can also press RESET to get back to Applesoft. Switching using either command will init your environment from scratch (i.e. any BASIC program in memory, either Applesoft or Integer, is lost). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 19:12:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Anyone out there want to enlighten us poor slobs stuck on the wrong side > of the continent? Anyone putting any pictures on the web? It was a wholly awesome event. The most well-run VCF in the history of the VCF (all talks on time and recorded and video taped). Nearly a perfect exhibit (one problem with a circuit breaker on Sunday that was promptly fixed) with Kraftwerk playing in the background, not to mention the excellent exhibits themselves. We had broadband Internet access in the Exhibit Hall plus a WAP. Plenty of good stuff in the vendor area (much stuff for which I had to quell my impulse to buy, though I did get a lot of keen donations). Lots of great literature at the Propaganda Zone. Tours to the Computer History Museum, the California Air and Space Center (which were only a short walk away) and an excursion to the DigiBarn (http://www.digibarn.com). And the attendance was way higher than expected (right up around 300). In my opinion it was one of the best VCF's yet. Next year it will be even bigger and better. I will now turn my sights to VCF East 2.0. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 28 19:14:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Wanted: VT100 PF1 key In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I need to locate a source and price quote(s) for the PF1 keytop for a VT100, OR a VT100 keyboard, OR a VT100 with keyboard. Our college administration dumpstered a bunch of stuff. They screwed up and dumpstered some stuff that was personal property! They have returned my VT100, but it is now missing a key. I am going to try to make them make good on it. To be honest, lately I only use it as a visual aid for explaining the development of the internet, what characters were present for development of programming languages, etc. Therefore, it doesn't even have to really work, and I'd be willing to trade my working one for a dead one that has a complete keyboard. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 19:17:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021028160947.04ea7e38@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > It was a great event, thanks to Sellam and his help. I live in the Chicago > area, but happened to be in the San Jose area for VCF 5.0. The talks that > I went to were quite interesting and in talking to Bruce Damer, the founder > of http://www.digibarn.com , I was able to hook up with Howard Palmer, > the originator of mazewar on the Imlac. Druce has a nice story about the > history of mazewar on his site. Since I have a running Imlac (which I took > to VCF East 1.0, I was very interested in finding out if the source for mazewar > was still around, and I now have a copy. Hopefully, I will be able to make the > necessary additions to my Imlac assembler to allow me to assemble the > code and run it on my Imlac. If Bob Shannon were to build a long vector > board for his Imlac, then we might be able to play mazewar against each > other. When I finally finish my work on my Imlac emulator, others will > hopefully > be able to play it as well. I have a long vector option that was kludged into my Imlac. I also met * and found out that he lives just a few minutes away from me. He was the guy who wrote most of Maze. He brought plenty of Imlac and Maze docs to the VCF. I'm going to be getting together with him in the next couple weeks to get copies and talk to him more about it. > So, for me, VCF 5.0 was wonderful! I got to meet a number of interesting > people, etc. I'm glad you were able to make it. As I said, it was a nice surprise to see you there! > Sorry, but I didn't take any pics of significance at the show. I'm sure > that some will show up on the http://www.vintage.org site in the not too > distant future. I didn't get to take my pictures either, but many people did for me. If you have pictures of the VCF, I would like copies to post to the VCF 5.0 Gallery. I would prefer you e-mail me a link as to where they can be downloaded (please send to , not here) but if you don't have a way of hosting them then you can just e-mail a ZIP of them to the same address. I will post a more formal VCF 5.0 wrap up soon, including names and descriptions of the VCF Exhibit awardees. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 28 19:17:54 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Anybody want Varian 620/F Reference Handbook? Message-ID: No, since for one, Varian sold that subsidiary to Sperry-Univac in the late 1970s.. Also, the computers were actually made in Billerica, MA.. But the logo of Varian Data Systems was the same as that of Varian Associates, the parent company. Indeed, the logo is still the same. So my money says its a Varian Associates building. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Oct 28 19:22:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Tools for analyzing MFM diskettes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Anyone messed with a Cat Weasel? http://www.jschoenfeld.de/products/cwmk3_e.htm From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 28 19:24:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: References: <4513.4.20.168.211.1035839265.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <2026.4.20.168.211.1035854780.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > And of course if you boot the DOS 3.3 System Master on a 64K Apple ][, > it will load the Integer BASIC ROM image (containing the Programmer's > Aid ROM) into the upper 16K of memory. Of which Programmer's Aid #1 occupies the addresses D000..D7FF. Integer BASIC and a few other goodies like the floating point subroutines, mini-assembler, and Sweet 16 reside from E000..F7FF, and of course the monitor ROM resides from F800..FFFF. I don't recall which version of the monitor ROM they put in the INTBASIC file. Apple never produced any official ROM for the D800..DFFF space for use with Integer BASIC; IIRC that area of the INTBASIC file is filled with meaningless data. (Hmmm... is it correct to call it data if it is actually meaningless?) Applesoft BASIC, on the other hand, occupies all of D000..F7FF, and can be found in the FPBASIC file. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 28 19:27:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1892.4.20.168.211.1035854943.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > It was a wholly awesome event. The most well-run VCF in the history of > the VCF (all talks on time and recorded and video taped). Hear, hear!!! Well done, Sellam, and everyone else involved! > Plenty of good stuff in the vendor area > (much stuff for which I had to quell my impulse to buy, though I did get > a lot of keen donations). Don't worry, Hans bought all the good stuff for you. :-) > In my opinion it was one of the best VCF's yet. Yes! Eric From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Oct 28 19:30:01 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Anybody want Varian 620/F Reference Handbook? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021029013218.GC345009@uiuc.edu> Is this the same Varian that makes spectrometers, such as NMR equipment? Will Jennings said: > No, since for one, Varian sold that subsidiary to Sperry-Univac in the late > 1970s.. Also, the computers were actually made in Billerica, MA.. But the > logo of Varian Data Systems was the same as that of Varian Associates, the > parent company. Indeed, the logo is still the same. So my money says its a > Varian Associates building. > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.? Try MSN! > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 28 19:49:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Anybody want Varian 620/F Reference Handbook? Message-ID: Yea, some old NMR machines of theirs have their minis inside them... I think thats why they bought Data Machines in the first place, though that is a conjecture. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 28 20:00:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <1892.4.20.168.211.1035854943.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: Sellam Ismail wrote: > It was a wholly awesome event. The most well-run VCF in the history of > the VCF (all talks on time and recorded and video taped). Sellam put on one hell of an event! just wish that we didn't have to wait so long for the next one! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From at258 at osfn.org Mon Oct 28 20:02:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Our latest aquisition is an old NCR T-8255 with a 1978 date on an inside tag. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Oct 28 20:09:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Wanted: VT100 PF1 key References: Message-ID: <3DBDEE50.39265908@compsys.to> >"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > I need to locate a source and price quote(s) for > the PF1 keytop for a VT100, > OR a VT100 keyboard, > OR a VT100 with keyboard. > > Our college administration dumpstered a bunch of stuff. They screwed up > and dumpstered some stuff that was personal property! They have returned > my VT100, but it is now missing a key. I am going to try to make them > make good on it. > > To be honest, lately I only use it as a visual aid for explaining the > development of the internet, what characters were present for development > of programming languages, etc. Therefore, it doesn't even have to really > work, and I'd be willing to trade my working one for a dead one that has a > complete keyboard. Jerome Fine replies: HOW MANY?? And do you want the one that is painted GOLD? That will cost extra. I presume you want the complete keyboard or JUST the PF1 key???? I don't know how much postage is to CA from Toronto, but UPS ground should not be too bad. Actual estimated cost is what I need for packing materials. My wife also sends a free thank you for one more thing out the door. Dust is free! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 28 20:28:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? Message-ID: <200210290209.SAA02796@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Actually, I was bummed. I gave away about 1/2 lbs of candy corn and hardly got any votes. Many walked by and looked at my monitor and said " Ah, a Apple III." I finally had to put a piece of paper over the label so people would look a little closer. The monitor was just the first thing I could find at the top of the pile that lit up. I had a Poly-88 setup but I think only one in 10 noticed and even then, I think only 2 in those ten knew what it was. Of course, my display was all about tape recovery and not the Poly-88. I don't think, maybe, 5 people all together realized that. It was partly my fault. My title was a little small and I spent most of my time fighting with Larry over table space instead of talking to people ( Larry was cheating with Tootsie Pops! ). I had no cool graphics either. Next year I'll have better candy and a bigger title! Still, I had a great time. Thanks Sellam!!! Dwight >From: "Sellam Ismail" > >On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > >> Anyone out there want to enlighten us poor slobs stuck on the wrong side >> of the continent? Anyone putting any pictures on the web? > >It was a wholly awesome event. The most well-run VCF in the history of >the VCF (all talks on time and recorded and video taped). Nearly a >perfect exhibit (one problem with a circuit breaker on Sunday that was >promptly fixed) with Kraftwerk playing in the background, not to mention >the excellent exhibits themselves. We had broadband Internet access >in the Exhibit Hall plus a WAP. Plenty of good stuff in the vendor >area (much stuff for which I had to quell my impulse to buy, though I >did get a lot of keen donations). Lots of great literature at the >Propaganda Zone. Tours to the Computer History Museum, the California Air >and Space Center (which were only a short walk away) and an excursion to >the DigiBarn (http://www.digibarn.com). And the attendance was way >higher than expected (right up around 300). > >In my opinion it was one of the best VCF's yet. Next year it will be even >bigger and better. > >I will now turn my sights to VCF East 2.0. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From jss at subatomix.com Mon Oct 28 20:43:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Wanted: VT100 PF1 key In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7487002523.20021028204438@subatomix.com> On Monday, October 28, 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I need to locate a source and price quote(s) for > the PF1 keytop for a VT100, I have an extra PF1 keytop that I'll send you for free. Just say the word and I'll send it to whatever address, defaulting to this one: > Fred Cisin > XenoSoft > PO Box 1236 > Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 -- Jeffrey Sharp From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 20:47:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I have a long vector option that was kludged into my Imlac. I also met * > and found out that he lives just a few minutes away from me. He was the > guy who wrote most of Maze. He brought plenty of Imlac and Maze docs to Sorry :) * = Greg Thomson Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Oct 28 20:48:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: All-In-One Interface For All Your Retro/Legacy Drives Message-ID: <1035859755.30016.0.camel@supermicro> Gratuitously ripped from Slashdot: An anonymous reader writes "Individual computers have announced a new version of they're multi-format floppy controller the Cat Weasel. This new version (Catweasel MK3 PCI/Flipper) has a few surprises such as 3 different interfaces to connect it to the host computer and a socket for an original C64 SID chip :). 'The main purpose of the Catweasel has always been to allow access to non-standard disks using normal PC-disk drives, even if you usually need a completely different computer for that. The capacity of the drive does not matter in this case: A 5.25 inch drive with 1.2MByte capacity will read and write a C-64 disk with 170KByte as well as a 3.5 inch drive with 1.44MByte can access a 1,76MByte Amiga disk. Together with a company that has specialized in data recovery, we're working on the implementation of more than 1100 different disk formats, and it does not matter that this has been classified impossible by others before. Even the 800KByte disks from older Macintosh computers can be used in standard 1.44MB drives, although the original drives have rotated their disks at variable speeds.' Find out more at the Catweasel MK3 PCI/Flipper page." From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 20:50:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: <2026.4.20.168.211.1035854780.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Apple never produced any official ROM for the D800..DFFF space for use > with Integer BASIC; IIRC that area of the INTBASIC file is filled with > meaningless data. (Hmmm... is it correct to call it data if it is > actually meaningless?) That's interesting. Is it truly meaningless or is this Woz's last secret that has yet to be "decoded"? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 20:51:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <1892.4.20.168.211.1035854943.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > Plenty of good stuff in the vendor area (much stuff for which I had to > > quell my impulse to buy, though I did get a lot of keen donations). > > Don't worry, Hans bought all the good stuff for you. :-) I know, it's currently taking up valuable space in my garage and warehouse :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From lgomez at cdromsa.es Mon Oct 28 21:13:01 2002 From: lgomez at cdromsa.es (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Luis_G=F3mez?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:23 2005 Subject: Grundy Newbrain problems Message-ID: <003401c27ea4$11df2c10$ee00a8c0@Luis> A few days ago, i was looking for Grundy Newbrain schematics. Now i have it (if somebody need it, please let me know) -Thanks to Voyager- but i can?t solve the problem: When i turn on the computer, the 16 character display flicks for 10 seconds. After this i can see the image in TV or monitor screen: new?brain?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Uppercase are converted to lowercase Spaces are converted to ? Numbers are converter to alphabetical characters (1 to q, 2 to r, 3 to s ....) but in 16 char. display all information is ok. It look like add 32 to ASCII code to display, but it is not so, because ASCII(1)+32=ASCII(Q) Q not q If i move just a little the computer i can see the correct character in screen, but not spaces, it still as ?. It like there is a bad contact in componet board, but i've check all contact and i can't found the fault. Sombody know this problem?? There is not the flat cable conecting diferent boards. Thanks and sorry by my english. Luis From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 28 21:29:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Anyone need 486 motherboards? Message-ID: Does anyone want some 486 motherboards? I'm not sure who makes them (made in Tiawan, SiS chipset). They have the CPU (486 DX/2 50Mhz); 6 ISA slots, 2- 72pin SIMM slots and 8- 30 pin slots, AMI bios, AT keyboard, SiS chipset. And I'll throw in the VGA card and I/O cards that are currently installed with them (I/O card has FDD, IDE, LPT, 2- Com). Both are ISA cards, but have a 2nd connector that looks a bit like AGP and hangs off the back end of the ISA slots (3 of the 6 slots have this addition connector, so these two cards fit into 2 of those). CMOS batteries are soldered on, and corroded, but were working and holding power as of not too long ago (these machines were last used a month or so ago). If anyone wants them (there are 4), let me know before I pull all the jumpers off and toss the motherboards. Or if anyone just wants 486 CPUs, let me know. I have the 4 listed above with the boards, and another 3 or 4 pulled from other boards (not sure on the specs for them, if there is interest, I'll check). -chris From lgomez at cdromsa.es Mon Oct 28 21:36:53 2002 From: lgomez at cdromsa.es (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Luis_G=F3mez?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Grundy Newbrain problems In-Reply-To: <003401c27ea4$11df2c10$ee00a8c0@Luis> Message-ID: <003501c27ea5$de7490c0$ee00a8c0@Luis> Another thing .... do you know some emulator for Newbrain? -----Mensaje original----- De: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]En nombre de Luis G?mez Enviado el: lunes, 28 de octubre de 2002 18:04 Para: cctech@classiccmp.org Asunto: Grundy Newbrain problems A few days ago, i was looking for Grundy Newbrain schematics. Now i have it (if somebody need it, please let me know) -Thanks to Voyager- but i can?t solve the problem: When i turn on the computer, the 16 character display flicks for 10 seconds. After this i can see the image in TV or monitor screen: new?brain?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Uppercase are converted to lowercase Spaces are converted to ? Numbers are converter to alphabetical characters (1 to q, 2 to r, 3 to s ....) but in 16 char. display all information is ok. It look like add 32 to ASCII code to display, but it is not so, because ASCII(1)+32=ASCII(Q) Q not q If i move just a little the computer i can see the correct character in screen, but not spaces, it still as ?. It like there is a bad contact in componet board, but i've check all contact and i can't found the fault. Sombody know this problem?? There is not the flat cable conecting diferent boards. Thanks and sorry by my english. Luis From stefan at softhome.net Mon Oct 28 21:37:50 2002 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Philips P4500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021028190557.00abe580@pop.softhome.net> Hiya, Does anybody know anything about a Philips P4500 ?? I just now the size which is well, a decent size.... :) Maybe someone has a picture ? Stefan. From f.heite at hccnet.nl Mon Oct 28 21:38:34 2002 From: f.heite at hccnet.nl (Freek Heite) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <200210282232.XAA02335@smtp.hccnet.nl> > gil smith asked: > I am curious what your favorite cp/m system might be. My first 8bit CP/M machine was made by putting a Microsoft Softcard into my Apple ][ Plus, early 1981. After sitting there for a few years, the Softcard was moved to a new Apple //f. That's an Apple //e, where I had the Rom software patched by my dealer, to prevent the hard reset routine from overwriting a few bytes in every xx KB's. And, of course, the startup text on the top line of the screen changed to Apple //f to make it my "personal" machine. The //f machine was upgraded with serial and parallel cards, a clock/interrupt card, extra RAM, and finally a SASI interface card, connected to a 10 MB Xebec harddisk. For that SASI harddisk, as sold by my dealer, I wrote the boot prom, patches and drivers for Microsoft CP/M 2.2, ALS CP/M Plus, Apple DOS, Apple Pascal and finally Prodos. In the end, it was a system that could run not only two flavors of CP/M, but also all other OS's that were available for the Apple - all with megabytes of harddisk space. CP/M Plus was my favorite OS as it was the fastest one, mainly due to the large numbers of disk buffers that were possible in CP/M Plus. Sometimes I feel sorry that I sold all this for about fifty dollars... Freek. From vance at neurotica.com Mon Oct 28 21:39:28 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Err, there never was a 2Mbyte hard drive. IIRC, the smallest one IBM ever > shipped was 10Mbytes (and was an ST412 in disguise). IBM definitely shipped a 5MB. Never heard of a 2MB. Peace... Sridhar From aek at spies.com Mon Oct 28 21:40:17 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Anybody want Varian 620/F Reference Handbook? Message-ID: <200210290124.g9T1O2Hi008020@spies.com> > Is this, in fact, an office of Varian Data Systems? Varian's computer division was sold to Sperry in the mid 70's "Second Source Computers" bought what was left from Sperry in the 80's. I talked to Roger Lee at the company. 714/832-7724 voice, 714/832-3260 fax. rlee@sscitech.com. He repairs V-70's for some number of folks -- enough to keep him in business. He says there's even a 620i still running in England -- says the customer told him it only went down for repairs once. From pietstan at rogers.com Mon Oct 28 21:41:22 2002 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd References: <006b01c27e7b$d6644d50$6400a8c0@kitchen> Message-ID: <3DBDFEAF.1000605@rogers.com> On the one I opened up (me be the curious type...), I took all the screws out of the top cover (opposite the pc board), including the one in the end of the spindle, and the top was liberated from its unjust imprisonment!!! (lunatic rant mode off ;-}) ) You'll have to cut away the label in several places to get at the screws. Stan. WOFTBO Data Recovery wrote: > I have been searching for information regarding the assembly of a > Micropolis 1991 hard drive. > > > > What is the best method to disassemble the case to access the latching area? > > > > Dave S > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 28 21:42:11 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Wanted: VT100 PF1 key In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <106404DA-EAEE-11D6-939D-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On a similar note, my VT100 is missing the "Setup" key. Does anyone know where replacement keys can be found? Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, October 28, 2002, at 08:16 PM, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I need to locate a source and price quote(s) for > the PF1 keytop for a VT100, > OR a VT100 keyboard, > OR a VT100 with keyboard. > > Our college administration dumpstered a bunch of stuff. They screwed > up > and dumpstered some stuff that was personal property! They have > returned > my VT100, but it is now missing a key. I am going to try to make them > make good on it. > > > To be honest, lately I only use it as a visual aid for explaining the > development of the internet, what characters were present for > development > of programming languages, etc. Therefore, it doesn't even have to > really > work, and I'd be willing to trade my working one for a dead one that > has a > complete keyboard. > > -- > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 > Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Oct 28 21:44:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: All-In-One Interface For All Your Retro/Legacy Drives In-Reply-To: <1035859755.30016.0.camel@supermicro> from "Jeffrey H. Ingber" at Oct 28, 2002 09:49:14 PM Message-ID: <200210290345.g9T3jD506640@shell1.aracnet.com> > Gratuitously ripped from Slashdot: > > An anonymous reader writes "Individual computers have announced a new > version of they're multi-format floppy controller the Cat Weasel. This > new version (Catweasel MK3 PCI/Flipper) has a few surprises such as 3 > different interfaces to connect it to the host computer and a socket for > an original C64 SID chip :). 'The main purpose of the Catweasel has > always been to allow access to non-standard disks using normal PC-disk > drives, even if you usually need a completely different computer for > that. The capacity of the drive does not matter in this case: A 5.25 > inch drive with 1.2MByte capacity will read and write a C-64 disk with > 170KByte as well as a 3.5 inch drive with 1.44MByte can access a > 1,76MByte Amiga disk. Together with a company that has specialized in > data recovery, we're working on the implementation of more than 1100 > different disk formats, and it does not matter that this has been > classified impossible by others before. Even the 800KByte disks from > older Macintosh computers can be used in standard 1.44MB drives, > although the original drives have rotated their disks at variable > speeds.' Find out more at the Catweasel MK3 PCI/Flipper page." Warning, before considering a purchase of this device, the question to ask is, what *SOFTWARE* exists to make use of it? I purchased a Catweasel Mk2 for the Amiga a few years ago, thinking that among other things I'd be able to read Apple ][ floppies (it was advertised as being able to). One slight problem, no software existed to actually read most of the types of floppies that they claimed it could read. In the end, I think all I was able to get it to read was Amiga (well, duh, it's in an Amiga), PC, Mac, and C-64. In fact the *ONLY* thing I really gained what the ability to read C-64 floppies! Still as ticked off as I still am over the Amiga version of the Catweasel Mk2, I might actually consider buying the Mk3. Though in this case it would be to read Amiga floppies. Zane From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Oct 28 21:44:52 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Anyone need 486 motherboards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > Does anyone want some 486 motherboards? I'm not sure who makes them (made > in Tiawan, SiS chipset). > > They have the CPU (486 DX/2 50Mhz); 6 ISA slots, 2- 72pin SIMM slots and > 8- 30 pin slots, AMI bios, AT keyboard, SiS chipset. And I'll throw in > the VGA card and I/O cards that are currently installed with them (I/O > card has FDD, IDE, LPT, 2- Com). Both are ISA cards, but have a 2nd > connector that looks a bit like AGP and hangs off the back end of the ISA > slots (3 of the 6 slots have this addition connector, so these two cards > fit into 2 of those). These sound a bit like common generic 486 boards. The 'extra' part on some slots is a VL: 'VESA local bus', a 32bit extension for video (and some other) cards. Pat -- "The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted BASIC." -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 28 21:46:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: References: <1892.4.20.168.211.1035854943.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3700.4.20.168.211.1035863212.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I know, it's currently taking up valuable space in my garage and > warehouse :( You did tell him that every month you'll charge him rent in the form of 10% of the items initially stored, right? From gmphillips at earthlink.net Mon Oct 28 21:52:32 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY References: Message-ID: <001d01c27eff$b09b6750$0100a8c0@sys1> > "The same thing has happened to so many other common computers before. It > is a perceived rarity because many people only collect on auction sites > and are myopic otherwise. Once the auctions get flooded with the same > item, then the "rarity" factor is reduced". Perhaps... On the other hand, there was a lady that dumped a stash of about 50 Intel C8008 processors on EBAY about a year ago. For several months the price being paid for C8008's on EBAY dropped from $150 to $19.95. Then she finally ran out of them and the price has since slowly climbed back up and a few weeks ago, an Intel C8008 in "like new" condition brought about $150. Speaking of chip collecting (which some here tend to frown on), the general trend of higher prices on EBAY continues. Perhaps it's just my imagination, but the prices being paid for Altair 8800's and IMSAI 8080's on EBAY also seem to have bottomed and are going back up again. I do know that a number of new web sites dedicated to chip collecting has popped up lately, including one with nice a forum for buying and trading vintage chips. In fact, a number of auctions for rare vintage chips ended tonight where chips brought over $100. For example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1773839528 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1773826658 It is strange, but a a alot of people who would not consider buying a vintage computer think nothing of buying and collecting vintage microchips. These people tend to be younger computer enthusiasts who would not know what to do with an Altair 8800 if they had one. They do however appreciate the historical value of early microchips, especially processors. I on the otherhand, keep getting this urge to get a vintage machine simply for the challenge of restoring it and making it work. This urge has gotten especially intense since I purchased an Altair 8800 Rev. 0 CPU Card because I wanted the Intel C8080 CPU that was on it. I keep thinking, "If I just had a machine to put this card in". However, I am not a hardware guru. My background in is software and not the kind of software that runs on an Altair 8800 either. I doubt I would have the technical expertise to make it work. -- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 7:50 PM Subject: Re: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY > On 27 Oct 2002, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > > > It is not unusual to find a PC in good condition as they hold up very > > well. I can put together the same machine (in as good or better > > condition) in an afternoon after placing a few phone calls. These > > machines and parts are out there - everywhere. There is nothing special > > about that PC, and I don't think it's value will appreciate to the > > stratospheric levels that some other machines have. Or maybe I'm wrong > > and the tide has turned (as observed in this auction.) > > It's temporary. Once more and more IBM PC's start to get drug out of > closets and garages and put up for auction to reap hundreds of dollars, > the auction prices will fall. > > The same thing has happened to so many other common computers before. It > is a perceived rarity because many people only collect on auction sites > and are myopic otherwise. Once the auctions get flooded with the same > item, then the "rarity" factor is reduced. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Oct 28 22:21:34 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200210290423.WAA21851@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > > > Plenty of good stuff in the vendor area (much stuff for which I had to > > > quell my impulse to buy, though I did get a lot of keen donations). > > > > Don't worry, Hans bought all the good stuff for you. :-) > > I know, it's currently taking up valuable space in my garage and warehouse > :( > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > I hope someone bought the Terak. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 28 22:56:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > OTOH, earlier today, I saw a computer that was labeled as being "Original > > IBM XT in great condition" > > It also said that it originally had a 2MB drive, but now had 21MB. > Err, there never was a 2Mbyte hard drive. IIRC, the smallest one IBM ever > shipped was 10Mbytes (and was an ST412 in disguise). I've heard of an IBM 5M (ST506?), but the normal drive for an XT was 10. > > It also said that it originally had been 2 MHz, now 10 MHz. > Again, as we all know, the original PC/XT motherboard clocked the > processor at 4.77MHz. I don't think that ANY statement made about that machine was correct. It was NOT "original", as the only parts from IBM were the case (from two different models). It was NOT "IBM", as the only parts from IBM were the case (from two different models). It was arguably an "XT", as that's what kind of generic motherboard was in it. But it was in a nice white painted wooden cart. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Oct 28 22:59:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Wanted: VT100 PF1 key References: <106404DA-EAEE-11D6-939D-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DBE163A.2C07E603@compsys.to> >Sark wrote: > On a similar note, my VT100 is missing the "Setup" key. Does anyone > know where replacement keys can be found? Jerome Fine replies: Is the Setup key working and just missing the plastic top? If Fred only needs the PF1 key, you can have the Setup key. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From fernande at internet1.net Mon Oct 28 23:01:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd References: <3DBD8BAD.6090106@eoni.com> <2979.4.20.168.211.1035836113.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3DBE15E1.60300@internet1.net> Eric Smith wrote: > The only complaint I had with Micropolis was that their drives had a > very high failure rate. I have one that I've never had any trouble with. I bought it from some online shop that must have bought a lot of the Micropolis inventory when they went under. It's a 4.3gig 1/2 height 3.5" narrow scsi drive..... don't recall the model numner at the moment. As a PCer I had heard that they made good "server drives", so I bought one when I was building my PC. It's in my IBM 8580 now, although, in storage until I move, probably. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Oct 28 23:13:38 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd In-Reply-To: <006b01c27e7b$d6644d50$6400a8c0@kitchen> References: <006b01c27e7b$d6644d50$6400a8c0@kitchen> Message-ID: <200210282115050289.1CC96CC9@192.168.42.129> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 28-Oct-02 at 07:16 WOFTBO Data Recovery wrote: >I have been searching for information regarding the assembly of a >Micropolis 1991 hard drive. > >What is the best method to disassemble the case to access the latching >area? Ahhh... That's a nine-gig drive, isn't it? Unless you have access to Class 100 or better clean-room facilities, you really should think two or three times before you open that case. At the bit densities required for nine giggers, you stand a very good chance of ruining the drive permanently if you break the seal on the HDA. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 23:53:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <200210290209.SAA02796@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > It was partly my fault. My title was a little small and > I spent most of my time fighting with Larry over table space > instead of talking to people ( Larry was cheating with Tootsie > Pops! ). I had no cool graphics either. Sorry, things were a bit tight due to limited space and limited resources (namely cubicle divider walls). Next year, with a bigger budget, we won't have these problems. Dwight, thanks for an awesome exhibit. Once again you have demonstrated the true nature of the vintage computer collecting hobby. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Oct 28 23:58:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <3700.4.20.168.211.1035863212.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > I know, it's currently taking up valuable space in my garage and > > warehouse :( > > You did tell him that every month you'll charge him rent in the form > of 10% of the items initially stored, right? Actually, the deal that has been open to Hans for the past couple years is that Hans can have my whole entire collection as long as he carries it away in one day (one 24 hour period), by himself, with no help. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Oct 29 00:00:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <200210290423.WAA21851@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > I hope someone bought the Terak. ? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Oct 29 00:01:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? References: <200210290209.SAA02796@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <00c301c27f10$ccbf5250$633acd18@D73KSM11> > Hi > Actually, I was bummed. I gave away about 1/2 lbs of candy > corn and hardly got any votes. Many walked by and looked > at my monitor and said " Ah, a Apple III." I finally had > to put a piece of paper over the label so people would > look a little closer. The monitor was just the first thing > I could find at the top of the pile that lit up. > I had a Poly-88 setup but I think only one in 10 noticed > and even then, I think only 2 in those ten knew what it was. > Of course, my display was all about tape recovery and not > the Poly-88. I don't think, maybe, 5 people all together > realized that. > It was partly my fault. My title was a little small and > I spent most of my time fighting with Larry over table space > instead of talking to people ( Larry was cheating with Tootsie > Pops! ). I had no cool graphics either. > Next year I'll have better candy and a bigger title! > Still, I had a great time. Thanks Sellam!!! > Dwight > Well, the last thing you wanted to win was a "People's Choice" award. I mean, Vanilla Ice once won the nationally televised version -- what more need be said? In any event, the crowd votes for what is familiar, meaning that the non-/barely vintage stuff does well. Witness the guy with all the Mac notebooks, a past "People's Choice" winner, and second this year. Much of what he displays isn't even 10 years old. So, wear your loss as a badge of honor! By the way, next year I'll be displaying an X-Box -- and I'll kick your ass in the voting! -W From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Oct 29 00:10:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: <001d01c27eff$b09b6750$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, John Galt wrote: > > "The same thing has happened to so many other common computers before. > > It is a perceived rarity because many people only collect on auction > > sites and are myopic otherwise. Once the auctions get flooded with > > the same item, then the "rarity" factor is reduced". > > Perhaps... On the other hand, there was a lady that dumped a stash of > about 50 Intel C8008 processors on EBAY about a year ago. For several > months the price being paid for C8008's on EBAY dropped from $150 to > $19.95. Then she finally ran out of them and the price has since slowly > climbed back up and a few weeks ago, an Intel C8008 in "like new" > condition brought about $150. Speaking of chip collecting (which some > here tend to frown on), the general trend of higher prices on EBAY > continues. Perhaps it's just my imagination, but the prices being paid > for Altair 8800's and IMSAI 8080's on EBAY also seem to have bottomed > and are going back up again. I do know that a number of new web sites > dedicated to chip collecting has popped up lately, including one with > nice a forum for buying and trading vintage chips. Gosh, I'm glad I went ahead and picked up the half dozen 8008s one of my local parts dealers had. I certainly didn't pay that much for them. Good thing he doesn't know what they bring on ebay ;) (actually, I doubt he would care, those chips had been in his inventory for ~20+ years.) > In fact, a number of auctions for rare vintage chips ended tonight where > chips brought over $100. I wonder now if I should go ahead and buy up all the other 808x stuff I know about? -Toth From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Oct 29 00:24:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? References: <1892.4.20.168.211.1035854943.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <00f101c27f13$ff2cd6b0$633acd18@D73KSM11> > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > It was a wholly awesome event. The most well-run VCF in the history of > > the VCF (all talks on time and recorded and video taped). > > Hear, hear!!! Well done, Sellam, and everyone else involved! > Seconds to that. Great show, superbly organized, well attended, tremendous venue and, on top of that, even some free food! Thanks for all your hard work! The attendance was great as well, and didn't show any drop-off on Sunday. The place was rockin'! > > Plenty of good stuff in the vendor area > > (much stuff for which I had to quell my impulse to buy, though I did get > > a lot of keen donations). > > Don't worry, Hans bought all the good stuff for you. :-) > Except for the Lisa 2, which I finally convinced Hans to stop bidding against me on by reminding him that I had led the standing ovation for his VCF talk on XML! > > > In my opinion it was one of the best VCF's yet. > > Yes! > Double yes (and I'll remind you that you said _the_ best during your closing speech)!!! > > Eric > -W From akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to Tue Oct 29 00:41:33 2002 From: akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to (Andy Bressen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:24 2005 Subject: IBM 9121 needs home, currently in Cambridge, MA In-Reply-To: <200210282232.XAA02335@smtp.hccnet.nl> Message-ID: <2lr8e9ivv7.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> In addition to the VAX 7000-610, MIT (in cambridge, massachusetts, USA) is also getting ready to trash an IBM mainframe CPU, a 9121. From the description below, it sounds like no DASD or tape with this one. You can contact me if interested. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Oct 29 00:56:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd References: <3DBD8BAD.6090106@eoni.com> <2979.4.20.168.211.1035836113.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3DBE30FF.5060902@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Smith wrote: > Micropolis had their own problems, but I don't think we should accuse > them with out-and-out fraud without researching it a bit further. > The company that shipped bricks was Miniscribe, and one of their > executives was finally convicted when it was discovered that he'd > actually purchased the bricks on his credit card. (Note to self: > when buying materials for an inventory scam, pay cash.) And use SMALL bills too! :) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Oct 29 01:07:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY References: Message-ID: <3DBE33C0.9040700@jetnet.ab.ca> vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > >>Err, there never was a 2Mbyte hard drive. IIRC, the smallest one IBM ever >>shipped was 10Mbytes (and was an ST412 in disguise). > > > IBM definitely shipped a 5MB. Never heard of a 2MB. 2.5 meg sounds more reasinable for early HD's even if not used in IBM's. From marvin at rain.org Tue Oct 29 01:13:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY References: <3DBE33C0.9040700@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3DBE357E.BCBC961B@rain.org> ben franchuk wrote: > vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > IBM definitely shipped a 5MB. Never heard of a 2MB. > 2.5 meg sounds more reasinable for early HD's even if not > used in IBM's. I have never heard of a 2.5 MB HD for anything on the PC or S-100 era systems. On the other hand, my Northstar Horizon (~1979 or so) has a 5 MB HD installed on it. I don't remember exactly, but I believe the Vector 4 also had a 5 MB HD. From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Oct 29 01:25:01 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021028232414.023ad670@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 06:09 PM 10/28/02 -0800, dwight elvey wrote: >Hi > Actually, I was bummed. ... > I had a Poly-88 setup but I think only one in 10 noticed >and even then, I think only 2 in those ten knew what it was. I spotted it, and I knew what it was. But how could you tell that? Probably other people were the same. > Of course, my display was all about tape recovery and not >the Poly-88. I don't think, maybe, 5 people all together >realized that. That, I didn't spot. I noticed the waveforms on the wall, but amidst the din (auditory and visual) it didn't register. I wish I had noticed, though, since it is an area I want to spend some time working on one of these years. Rather than letting it be lost to the moment, is there any chance of you writing up your work and putting it online somewhere (even posting it to this list and letting it get archived would work). I've read a half dozen very terse summaries of emulators and such that do this, but most work only on really clean tapes. They simply do some DC correction, perhaps a bit of filtering, and then time zero crossings and decode from there. Have you done something more sophisticated than this? Some of the Sol tapes I've looked at are way too corrupted for such a simple technique to work. There are a lot of communication theory ideas that could be applied to the problem directly; in addition, the file format is going to have some known structure that could be used to help train the receiver and disambiguate some cases. I'd be interested to hear more. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From cb at mythtech.net Tue Oct 29 01:38:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Anyone need 486 motherboards? Message-ID: >Are they ALL DX2-50's? I'm looking for a DX-50. I'll double check, but yeah, I am pretty sure these 4 are DX2-50. I also have a small stack of 486 CPUs (cpu chip only), and there might be a regular DX in there (I know there are some SX and DX2's... as well as a few that the chip is glued to the heatsink, so I'm not sure what they are) -chris From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Oct 29 01:46:00 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Supply of DEC 11/23 11/73 front panel switches Message-ID: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8F63@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> Hello Jay. I am sorry to say that I am not going to use those buttons in PDP-11's, but in my StarShip (click the starfield on http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj). I have developed the code for the main screen, with a correct view on the stars. The code allows for magnification and view opening angles. To use these "options" I am looking for 'nice' buttons, like the ones that HP uses. Those buttons have a LED in the middle to indicate that the button is active. If those buttons you have found at the surplus dealer have the LED in the middle of the button, I would like to buy several of them. Let's say 20 with the green colored LED and 20 with the red LED. I can pay via PayPal, or send cash $$ in a letter, what you prefer. Hoping you have found the correct buttons ... and willing to do the effort, kind regards, - Henk. (PS. would it help to say that I was one of the donators?) > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@imail.kwcorp.com] > Sent: maandag 28 oktober 2002 17:30 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Supply of DEC 11/23 11/73 front panel switches > > Found at a local surplus dealer... a whole container of those > square white > pushbutton switches that I am pretty certain are the ones > used on the "front > panel" of the 11/23 or 11/73 systems. > > They have the following markings.... > > I think they had them marked at 0.59 each, if these are the > right ones (got it at work actually, haven't had a chance to > go home and check they are the right ones) and anyone wants > any, let me know. > > Jay West From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Oct 29 02:01:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Oct 28, 2 05:18:05 pm" Message-ID: <200210290812.BAA10112@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I will post a more formal VCF 5.0 wrap up soon, including names and > descriptions of the VCF Exhibit awardees. What were the vote standings? I want to know how well I did with just *one* day of stumping. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- What happens when you get scared half-to-death twice? ---------------------- From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Oct 29 03:30:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Anyone need 486 motherboards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > > Are they ALL DX2-50's? I'm looking for a DX-50. > > I'll double check, but yeah, I am pretty sure these 4 are DX2-50. > > I also have a small stack of 486 CPUs (cpu chip only), and there might > be a regular DX in there (I know there are some SX and DX2's... as well > as a few that the chip is glued to the heatsink, so I'm not sure what > they are) If your board can accept one, a DX2-66 performs better than a DX50. The DX2-66 only has a 33MHz clock, but if the motherboard has VLB slots, a 33MHz bus is a must, since anything faster causes timing problems. (A 40MHz bus can be made to work, but it isn't fun...) If the board has an oscillator can or speed selection jumpers, it should be easy to use a DX2-66 instead of a DX50. -Toth From franco.tassone at inwind.it Tue Oct 29 03:33:00 2002 From: franco.tassone at inwind.it (franco.tassone@inwind.it) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pinouts_schema_for_DEC_PRO_console_on_printer_port?= Message-ID: Hi all, I've heard of the possibility to have a serial console connected to the printer port of the DEC Professional series computers, and it is what I'd ike to have. Do you have any pointers to get it solved, or any hints ? The pinouts schema could be the best for me. Your help will be greatly appreciated. Franco From kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com Tue Oct 29 03:49:35 2002 From: kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help -- Apple ][ ROM -- etc References: Message-ID: <3DBE59D1.146B5D0@reeltapetransfer.com> FWIW: With interest in the Programmer's Aid, I thought I had an Apple ][ RedBook, so I went searching for it, hoping to find info on the Aid ROM. Not found yet. But I did run acrossan OEM MANUAL for SA400 MiniFloppy Diskette Storage Drive. By Shugart Associates (40 pages), Sep. 1978. I could fax some pages if anyone likes. It has some timeing charts, schematics, sections on recording format, electrical interface. SEEK: I'm also still searching for the manual Apple ][ Ieee-488 Interface User's Guide. Keven Miller kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Oct 29 04:18:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Anyone need 486 motherboards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > If your board can accept one, a DX2-66 performs better than a DX50. > > The DX2-66 only has a 33MHz clock, but if the motherboard has VLB > > slots, a 33MHz bus is a must, since anything faster causes timing > > problems. (A 40MHz bus can be made to work, but it isn't fun...) If > > the board has an oscillator can or speed selection jumpers, it should > > be easy to use a DX2-66 instead of a DX50. > > I am looking specifically for a DX-50 for something special. Out of curiosity, what kind of application do you have planned for one? If Chris doesn't have a DX-50 in his inventory, I'll check mine, as I *might* still have a lone DX-50 packed away. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Oct 29 04:25:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Drives? (was: RE: Tales of VCF 5.0?) In-Reply-To: <000601c27ed1$cc046560$90f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/VCF5/ImageMap2.htm http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/VCF5/Tony%20Cole%20Vendor.jpg http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/VCF5/MemoryBillia2.jpg Does anyone recognize the drive with the numeric pad and LCD on the far right of the above two photos? It looks nearly identical to the 4 drives in my SGI 210S, and I'm still not exactly sure what type they are. -Toth From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Oct 29 04:26:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: <001301c27d72$ca607ce0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> References: <001301c27d72$ca607ce0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: I had lunch Sunday and it was $115, my 91 Mustang needed a new radiator and that was $530, $1k for something you want isn't unreasonable. Its the recipe for money on ebay, old, original, exceptional condition, a full package, and very well presented. For the last two or three years I have looked, not real hard, but snooped every machine i had a chance at, and I have yet to find an original 16-64k motherboard. Also really nice condition is rare enough in itself. My best units are in the some rust category. The seller has lots of good feedback, and my guess is that this system better be just as nice as claimed or better. No way would I pay that kind of money, more like $20 or "maybe" as much as $40 or $50 if it was really that clean. Still kicking myself about the dozen original keyboards all new in the box that got snagged out of my stack after an auction. Worst thing is the dumb swapmeet people who grabbed them likely dumpstered them once they looked at the connectors. Steal first, examine at leisure. >I noticed that auction and was shocked myself. >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2062770257 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021029/972556ba/attachment.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Oct 29 04:26:50 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: MAC's from N.A. > Africa? In-Reply-To: <20021027160237.NSZW5548.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> References: <20021027160237.NSZW5548.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: >I've been asked what is required to make MAC's (Plus, SE, CI, FX) from >North America run in Africa. > >I took a quick looked at a few of mine and didn't notice a switch on the >back of the powe supply like some of the older PC's had. > >Is the costs worth the cost of shipping? Many early macs were world machines, just use a cable with the correction plug for that country and the mac worked fine without diddling any switches or anything. Here is a link to the Apple Spec http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112170 Something I tell people about older computers, anything is SO much better than nothing. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Oct 29 05:32:00 2002 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: For Sale: Diamond D5 Wordprocessor Message-ID: <20021029113438.90541.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, > > curious. Mine's definitely a Diablo unit and plugs into its own > > card within the > > Yes, a Diablo Hitype II. ha ha - just me being stoopid :) > > cardcage in the system unit. But there's also a seperate card > > in there (oddly, > > How many wires in the cable between the printer and this card? right, just taken another look... yes, it is 50 pins - but not connected to anything; the printer connects via a serial cable to a seperate SIO board (which seems capable of supporting 2 devices). A post-sale upgrade I assume, but they left the original Diablo board in the machine too. The SIO board has DIP-switches on it whereas configuration on the other cards seems to be solder-contact only. do you remember if your unit shows anything on the display prior to putting the system disc in? Be useful if it did in terms of tracing the fault with this machine. there's more cards in the cardcage than I originally remembered: disc #4 drive (x 2) disc #4 read/write disc #4 control 64K ram SIO interface 3 mode VDU output 3 mode VDU counter VDU memory CPU #9 Z80 RTC keyboard interface diablo interface The 3 VDU boards are coupled on the outer edge as well as on the backplane. Backplane connections are via 88 contacts, with the component-side of the cards being purely ground. Not sure if the layout was to any recognised design; probably proprietary though. cheers, Jules 88 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Oct 29 05:44:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Fw: Free VAX Message-ID: <045b01c27f40$ca6b4f60$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "dneprcomp" Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 7:20 PM Subject: Free VAX > The following items are free: > 2 MicroVax II model DH-63003-E2 TK70 OS VAX IVMS ver. 1,7 > Terminal VT 220 > Tape Backup 8 mm > Plotter Bruning model ZETA 8A. > Location: Los Angeles > If interested please call Yakov at 818-704-8198 > > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Oct 29 06:03:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Anyone need 486 motherboards? References: Message-ID: <046601c27f43$6230fff0$7800a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 4:33 AM Subject: Re: Anyone need 486 motherboards? > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > > > > Are they ALL DX2-50's? I'm looking for a DX-50. > > > > I'll double check, but yeah, I am pretty sure these 4 are DX2-50. > > > > I also have a small stack of 486 CPUs (cpu chip only), and there might > > be a regular DX in there (I know there are some SX and DX2's... as well > > as a few that the chip is glued to the heatsink, so I'm not sure what > > they are) > > If your board can accept one, a DX2-66 performs better than a DX50. The > DX2-66 only has a 33MHz clock, but if the motherboard has VLB slots, a > 33MHz bus is a must, since anything faster causes timing problems. (A > 40MHz bus can be made to work, but it isn't fun...) If the board has an > oscillator can or speed selection jumpers, it should be easy to use a > DX2-66 instead of a DX50. If anyone's interested, a local ebayer (Columbus, Ohio) has some Kingston 133MHz 486 upgrade chips, currently $2.50ea in a dutch auction. They appear to be new, no dust or signs of removal, and they are in a retail-looking plastic package. No paper insert though. Search for seller `dotcomliquidations'. No interestes other than a satisfied customer. > > -Toth Bob From hansp at aconit.org Tue Oct 29 06:48:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Dates (again) Message-ID: <3DBE83E8.2090201@aconit.org> I'm looking for the model name/number and date of introduction of the first IBM ThinkPad, also the date of introduction of the CDI Miniterm (those cute thermal printer terminals with acoustic coupler on the back). Many thanks for any help, -- hbp From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Oct 29 07:20:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? References: Message-ID: <3DBE8C0A.2010105@tiac.net> A long vector 'kludge'? Is this installed into a PDS-1, or a PDS-1D? Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >>I have a long vector option that was kludged into my Imlac. I also met * >>and found out that he lives just a few minutes away from me. He was the >>guy who wrote most of Maze. He brought plenty of Imlac and Maze docs to >> > >Sorry :) * = Greg Thomson > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Oct 29 07:25:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Drives? (was: RE: Tales of VCF 5.0?) In-Reply-To: References: <000601c27ed1$cc046560$90f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021029072438.01b76e80@ubanproductions.com> At 04:28 AM 10/29/2002 -0600, you wrote: >On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > > > http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/VCF5/ImageMap2.htm > >http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/VCF5/Tony%20Cole%20Vendor.jpg >http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/VCF5/MemoryBillia2.jpg > >Does anyone recognize the drive with the numeric pad and LCD on the far >right of the above two photos? It looks nearly identical to the 4 drives >in my SGI 210S, and I'm still not exactly sure what type they are. > >-Toth It was labeled with a Seagate brand, but I think that when I last used one like it it was a CDC brand drive, perhaps a Sabre. --tom From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Oct 29 07:38:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Anyone need 486 motherboards? References: Message-ID: <3DBE905C.5060102@tiac.net> DX2-50 does not equal DX-50. I've got some 'real' DX-50's, if thats what you need. chris wrote: >>Are they ALL DX2-50's? I'm looking for a DX-50. >> > >I'll double check, but yeah, I am pretty sure these 4 are DX2-50. > >I also have a small stack of 486 CPUs (cpu chip only), and there might be >a regular DX in there (I know there are some SX and DX2's... as well as a >few that the chip is glued to the heatsink, so I'm not sure what they are) > >-chris > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Oct 29 07:43:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Anyone need 486 motherboards? References: Message-ID: <3DBE9182.10509@tiac.net> Hmmm, are you sure about this? A 'real' DX-50 will clean the clock of a DX2-66, due to the true 50 Mhz bus. If your seeing a DX2-66 beat a DX-50, then the DX-50 is not being run at full (local bus) speed. I've got a (large) pile of NEC EISA servers that take plug-in CPU cards, so its easy to swap between the DX2-66 and DX-50 while keeping the same BIOS and chipset. The DX-50 is clearly faster. (I'd love to not have this pile of servers, NEC PowerMate Express A7x's, in both desktop and tower chassis) Tothwolf wrote: >On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > >>>Are they ALL DX2-50's? I'm looking for a DX-50. >>> >>I'll double check, but yeah, I am pretty sure these 4 are DX2-50. >> >>I also have a small stack of 486 CPUs (cpu chip only), and there might >>be a regular DX in there (I know there are some SX and DX2's... as well >>as a few that the chip is glued to the heatsink, so I'm not sure what >>they are) >> > >If your board can accept one, a DX2-66 performs better than a DX50. The >DX2-66 only has a 33MHz clock, but if the motherboard has VLB slots, a >33MHz bus is a must, since anything faster causes timing problems. (A >40MHz bus can be made to work, but it isn't fun...) If the board has an >oscillator can or speed selection jumpers, it should be easy to use a >DX2-66 instead of a DX50. > >-Toth > > From franco.tassone at inwind.it Tue Oct 29 07:47:37 2002 From: franco.tassone at inwind.it (franco.tassone@inwind.it) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pinouts_schema_for_DEC_PRO_console_on_printer_port?= Message-ID: Hi all, I've heard of the possibility to have a serial console connected to the printer port of the DEC Professional series computers, and it is what I'd ike to have. Do you have any pointers to get it solved, or any hints ? The pinouts schema could be the best for me. Your help will be greatly appreciated. Franco From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Oct 29 07:58:32 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51270B4@MAIL10> I didn't realize that Integer BASIC also included the ROM image...in which case I don't need it. Was there a special manual for those commands or were they covered in the DOS 3.3 book? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:08 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Rich wrote: > > I just read about this in the A2FAQ. Does anyone have this Apple ][ ROM > > and manual? > > If you've got a DOS 3.3 Master diskette (or a "BASICS" diskette), you've > got the ROM image. It's in the INTBASIC file on the DOS 3.3 Master. > > I've got a manual, somewhere. And of course if you boot the DOS 3.3 System Master on a 64K Apple ][, it will load the Integer BASIC ROM image (containing the Programmer's Aid ROM) into the upper 16K of memory. Then you can switch into Integer BASIC from Applesoft BASIC by typing 'INT' (which is a DOS command). To get back to Applesoft type 'FP' (for Floating Point, as in floating point BASIC). INT basically bank-switches in the ROM image in RAM. You can also press RESET to get back to Applesoft. Switching using either command will init your environment from scratch (i.e. any BASIC program in memory, either Applesoft or Integer, is lost). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Oct 29 08:56:00 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Destroying a SX-64.. :-( Message-ID: <200210291456.JAA16351@wordstock.com> This is very sick. http://slashdot.org/articles/02/10/28/2137208.shtml?tid=137 This person modified a SX-64 to contain a 1.2 Ghz P3. Bryan From allain at panix.com Tue Oct 29 09:02:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Dates (again) References: <3DBE83E8.2090201@aconit.org> Message-ID: <001401c27f5c$78498c80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- I'm looking for the model name/number and date of +AD4- introduction of the first IBM ThinkPad, The laptop sales literature I have says: Thinkpad 1992-10-05: Thinkpad name announced models: 700,700C,700T,300 pre-Thinkpad 1992-07-22: PS/note N45SL 1992-03-24: PS/2 CL57 SX color announced 1991-02: L40SX John A. PS/note. The successor to +ACI-PS/Boat+ACI-. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Oct 29 09:08:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Destroying a SX-64.. :-( References: <200210291456.JAA16351@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3DBEB1FC.7B5EDB8F@ccp.com> Bryan Pope wrote: > > This is very sick. > > http://slashdot.org/articles/02/10/28/2137208.shtml?tid=137 > > This person modified a SX-64 to contain a 1.2 Ghz P3. Kinda like dropping in a small block Chevy V8 in a Model T. Sacrelidge!!!! Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Oct 29 09:49:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Anyone need 486 motherboards? In-Reply-To: <3DBE9182.10509@tiac.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021029104630.006b109c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 08:47 AM 10/29/02 -0500, you wrote: >Hmmm, are you sure about this? > >A 'real' DX-50 will clean the clock of a DX2-66, due to the true 50 Mhz bus. > >If your seeing a DX2-66 beat a DX-50, then the DX-50 is not being run at >full (local bus) speed. I second this opinion, at least if running Linux. I never made that speed test under Winblows. This was in a machine with a 512K L2 cache; the local bus speed could be configured to 33MHz, 40MHz and 50MHz. Right now my daughter uses that machine, but it doesn't have that 486DX50 anymore; now it has one of those 3X/4X AMD 486 replacements sold by PowerLeap; I think it is running at 3X with a bus speed of 40MHz, for a 120MHz internal clock [1]. Quite speedy for a 486. [1] Another test revealed that the combination 40MHz local/120MHz internal was substantially faster than 33MHz local/133MHz internal. I would have tried 50MHz local/100MHz internal, but I think it wasn't supported. I suspect it might have been even faster. Another case of raw internal clock speed not being an appropriate measure of system performance. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Oct 29 10:39:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <00c301c27f10$ccbf5250$633acd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > In any event, the crowd votes for what is familiar, meaning that the > non-/barely vintage stuff does well. Witness the guy with all the Mac > notebooks, a past "People's Choice" winner, and second this year. Much > of what he displays isn't even 10 years old. So, wear your loss as a > badge of honor! True. And I'm sorry we couldn't have the full judging across multiple exhibit categories as in the past, but there just weren't enough exhibits to make it feasible. If it's any consolation, I thoroughly enjoyed your exhibit (as I always do). How many opportunities do you get to play Tic Tac Toe against an IBM System/23 that has to take about 15 seconds between turns to think ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 29 10:42:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:26 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help Message-ID: <20021029164547.PWDV20501.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > The original post on this thread mentioned not having a "standard" floppy > power connector (Molex), and not knowing the pinout of the > connector(s). Upon very close examination I can see some stray flux around the solder connections to the four-pin header (which is present instead of the Molex connector), so my guess is that the original connector was removed by a user. The additional write-protect switch, however, is a *very* professional installation. > Could it be that his SA400 is an aftermarket drive for > Apple (or something else), where the Shugart board was replaced by > something weirder? Possible. The drive came from a home-built enclosure which also contained a home-made PSU and ZX81-compatible keyboard (no ZX81 board, though :<( ) Also, since all of my other systems use 40-track drives, I doubt I'll ever have any use for this thing. Are they still commonly available? If not, I may hang on to it "just in case." Otherwise, it's probably off to eBay unless someone on this list wants it and is willing to pay postage. Later -- Glen 0/0 From foo at siconic.com Tue Oct 29 10:46:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021028232414.023ad670@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Jim Battle wrote: > I've read a half dozen very terse summaries of emulators and such that do > this, but most work only on really clean tapes. They simply do some DC > correction, perhaps a bit of filtering, and then time zero crossings and > decode from there. Have you done something more sophisticated than > this? Some of the Sol tapes I've looked at are way too corrupted for such > a simple technique to work. > > There are a lot of communication theory ideas that could be applied to the > problem directly; in addition, the file format is going to have some known > structure that could be used to help train the receiver and disambiguate > some cases. > > I'd be interested to hear more. Me too. This is what vintage computer preservation is all about. Dwight has always been one on the leading edge when it comes to this. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Oct 29 10:47:00 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0... Message-ID: <200210291647.LAA08248@wordstock.com> Sellam, When is VCF East 2.0 planned for? Any ideas on locations? Cheers, Bryan From foo at siconic.com Tue Oct 29 10:50:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <3DBE8C0A.2010105@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > A long vector 'kludge'? > > Is this installed into a PDS-1, or a PDS-1D? A PDS-1. Apparently it is a homebrew version of the long vector option. It has been a couple years (at least) since I last looked at it or discussed it with someone so I may be confusing myself. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Oct 29 10:52:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51270B4@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Cini, Richard wrote: > I didn't realize that Integer BASIC also included the ROM image...in which > case I don't need it. > > Was there a special manual for those commands or were they covered in the > DOS 3.3 book? They're discussed in the DOS manual (or at least they should be). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Oct 29 10:56:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! Message-ID: Well, amidst all of the stellar and superlative Tales and Stories now filtering in from Moffet Field, I have one small bummer. Taking our cue from a recent long and nearly-immortal thread on Oscilloscopes; sub-Tektronix scopes; sub-sub rack-mount Tek scopes - Marvin and I concocted a nice visual in-joke. I mounted a working RM503 in the rack with my PDP 11/44 and waited for one of the Listmembers to notice it and laugh. And I waited.... and waited.... Nobody got it! O well.... If Tony Duell had made his way across the pond this year - *he* would have laughed! maybe... But anyway, a Pretty Good Time was had by all, though there was not much working Big Iron on display - partially understandable when the Logistics of hauling and loading/unloading and setting up larger systems is taken into account. And I have the scars and bruises to attest to that. But next year I'm leaving the scope at home. Cheerz John From foo at siconic.com Tue Oct 29 10:57:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0... In-Reply-To: <200210291647.LAA08248@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > When is VCF East 2.0 planned for? Any ideas on locations? I'm still trying to recover from VCF 5.0. Give me a little while longer :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Oct 29 11:21:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021029112230.01d87948@ubanproductions.com> At 11:58 AM 10/29/2002 -0500, you wrote: > Well, amidst all of the stellar and superlative Tales and Stories now >filtering in from Moffet Field, I have one small bummer. > > Taking our cue from a recent long and nearly-immortal thread on >Oscilloscopes; sub-Tektronix scopes; sub-sub rack-mount Tek scopes - >Marvin and I concocted a nice visual in-joke. I mounted a working RM503 >in the rack with my PDP 11/44 and waited for one of the Listmembers to >notice it and laugh. And I waited.... and waited.... > > Nobody got it! O well.... I noticed the scope in your rack, but I quite reading the scope thread long ago... --tom > If Tony Duell had made his way across the pond this year - *he* would >have laughed! maybe... > > > But anyway, a Pretty Good Time was had by all, though there was not much >working Big Iron on display - partially understandable when the Logistics >of hauling and loading/unloading and setting up larger systems is taken >into account. And I have the scars and bruises to attest to that. > > But next year I'm leaving the scope at home. > > >Cheerz > >John From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Oct 29 11:25:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Drives? (was: RE: Tales of VCF 5.0?) In-Reply-To: Tom Uban's message of "Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:26:59 -0600" References: <000601c27ed1$cc046560$90f8b8ce@impac.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20021029072438.01b76e80@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200210291725.g9THP2BU047459@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Tom Uban wrote: > At 04:28 AM 10/29/2002 -0600, [Tothwolf] wrote: > >http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/VCF5/Tony%20Cole%20Vendor.jpg > >http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/VCF5/MemoryBillia2.jpg > > > >Does anyone recognize the drive with the numeric pad and LCD on the far > >right of the above two photos? It looks nearly identical to the 4 drives > >in my SGI 210S, and I'm still not exactly sure what type they are. > > It was labeled with a Seagate brand, but I think that when I last used one > like it it was a CDC brand drive, perhaps a Sabre. Didn't Seagate buy that part of CDC's disk drive business? -Frank McConnell From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Oct 29 11:34:00 2002 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Philips P4500 Message-ID: <20021029173617.6248.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> > Does anybody know anything about a Philips P4500 ?? > I just now the size which is well, a decent size.... :) > Maybe someone has a picture ? not as such, but maybe it's a bigger brother of my P3800. In which case I'll be amazed - I heard of one other Philips system a few years ago which was a similar but more basic version of mine (P---, can't remember the number now), but the owner had long since disposed of it when I made enquiries. Never come across anyone who has the same system as mine, or even heard of it, and not heard of a 4500 either. My unit's about 1 foot wide, 4ft deep and 3ft tall and is some kind of multi-user CP/M system, or so I was told. It certainly has a lot of Z80 CPUs on the cards in the cardcage! Not a particularly lightweight system either. I can email an image off-list if you want. cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From emu at ecubics.com Tue Oct 29 11:44:01 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! References: Message-ID: <3DBEC992.40904@ecubics.com> John Lawson wrote: > > Taking our cue from a recent long and nearly-immortal thread on > Oscilloscopes; sub-Tektronix scopes; sub-sub rack-mount Tek scopes - > Marvin and I concocted a nice visual in-joke. I mounted a working RM503 > in the rack with my PDP 11/44 and waited for one of the Listmembers to > notice it and laugh. And I waited.... and waited.... > > Nobody got it! O well.... I noticed it only on the pictures Erik posted. http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/VCF5/John%20Lawson.jpg But I just thought, it was easier to transport this way. Was looking more on the pdp11 stuff anyway ;-) cheers From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 29 11:46:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help & VCF In-Reply-To: <20021029164547.PWDV20501.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Also, since all of my other systems use 40-track drives, I doubt I'll ever > have any use for this thing. Are they still commonly available? If not, I > may hang on to it "just in case." Otherwise, it's probably off to eBay > unless someone on this list wants it and is willing to pay postage. At VCF, there was an SA400L (Q: is the L the 40 track version?) on the consignment table. It was in a metal shield that labelled it as being for a TI computer. It had the "normal" molex power connector, 34 pin card-edge, and dipshunt for select. I don't know what the asking price was, and I don't think that it sold. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 29 11:51:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I took an NLS 215 scope. It sold in the first 5 minutes, inspite of having dead batteries. I also sold an Amprobe clamp around ammeter for those who want to know how much power a REAL computer draws. On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, John Lawson wrote: > Well, amidst all of the stellar and superlative Tales and Stories now > filtering in from Moffet Field, I have one small bummer. > > Taking our cue from a recent long and nearly-immortal thread on > Oscilloscopes; sub-Tektronix scopes; sub-sub rack-mount Tek scopes - > Marvin and I concocted a nice visual in-joke. I mounted a working RM503 > in the rack with my PDP 11/44 and waited for one of the Listmembers to > notice it and laugh. And I waited.... and waited.... > > Nobody got it! O well.... > > > If Tony Duell had made his way across the pond this year - *he* would > have laughed! maybe... > > > But anyway, a Pretty Good Time was had by all, though there was not much > working Big Iron on display - partially understandable when the Logistics > of hauling and loading/unloading and setting up larger systems is taken > into account. And I have the scars and bruises to attest to that. > > But next year I'm leaving the scope at home. > > > Cheerz > > John From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Tue Oct 29 12:35:01 2002 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM Message-ID: <187820-2200210229183635538@buckeye-express.com> Wayne Stewart did a PDF conversion--not just a scan--of the manual for the Apple II Programmers Aid ROM. There are a few typographical errors but it is very good. It is about 278KB. E-mail me if you want a copy. The empty ROM socket in the Apple II at addresses $D800-$DFFF never had an official Apple ROM but there were some third party ROMs such as the Inspector and the Senior PROM. In the Integer BASIC disk file on the DOS 3.3 system masters that area is filled with the Applesoft BASIC code from the same range of addresses. -- Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Tue Oct 29 12:35:55 2002 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM Message-ID: <89390-2200210229183650616@buckeye-express.com> Wayne Stewart did a PDF conversion--not just a scan--of the manual for the Apple II Programmers Aid ROM. There are a few typographical errors but it is very good. It is about 278KB. E-mail me if you want a copy. The empty ROM socket in the Apple II at addresses $D800-$DFFF never had an official Apple ROM but there were some third party ROMs such as the Inspector and the Senior PROM. In the Integer BASIC disk file on the DOS 3.3 system masters that area is filled with the Applesoft BASIC code from the same range of addresses. -- Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From cb at mythtech.net Tue Oct 29 13:06:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Removing glued on heatsink (was: Anyone need 486 motherboards?) Message-ID: Ok, anyone know of a safe way of removing a glued on heatsink? I have a few of these 486 CPUs where the heatsink is glued down. I could just jam a screwdriver in and snap it off, but that just doesn't seem very good for the chip. -chris From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Oct 29 13:22:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Removing glued on heatsink (was: Anyone need 486 motherboards?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021029142027.02763a38@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that chris may have mentioned these words: >Ok, anyone know of a safe way of removing a glued on heatsink? I have a >few of these 486 CPUs where the heatsink is glued down. I could just jam a >screwdriver in and snap it off, but that just doesn't seem very good for >the chip. Chainsaw??? Barring that, maybe putting the chip in upside-down (heatsink down) in a shallow dish of acetone, just deep enough for the acetone to flow over the top of the heatsink, but not touching much of the chip itself. Maybe that'll dissolve the glue enough to get it off safely? Granted, this would surely ruin any fan that may exist on the heatsink, but methinks you wouldn't be worried about that (or you could remove it prior to dunking...) Just a (prolly bad) idea... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From marvin at rain.org Tue Oct 29 13:29:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Removing glued on heatsink (was: Anyone need 486 motherboards?) References: Message-ID: <3DBEE209.9919C064@rain.org> I've always just gone ahead and "pryed" the CPU off the heatsink. The first time I tried it, I was afraid of breaking the chip, but no such luck :). chris wrote: > > Ok, anyone know of a safe way of removing a glued on heatsink? I have a > few of these 486 CPUs where the heatsink is glued down. I could just jam > a screwdriver in and snap it off, but that just doesn't seem very good > for the chip. > > -chris > chris wrote: > > Ok, anyone know of a safe way of removing a glued on heatsink? I have a > few of these 486 CPUs where the heatsink is glued down. I could just jam > a screwdriver in and snap it off, but that just doesn't seem very good > for the chip. > > -chris > From marvin at rain.org Tue Oct 29 13:29:46 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Removing glued on heatsink (was: Anyone need 486 motherboards?) References: Message-ID: <3DBEE211.79B6A20B@rain.org> I've always just gone ahead and "pryed" the CPU off the heatsink. The first time I tried it, I was afraid of breaking the chip, but no such luck :). chris wrote: > > Ok, anyone know of a safe way of removing a glued on heatsink? I have a > few of these 486 CPUs where the heatsink is glued down. I could just jam > a screwdriver in and snap it off, but that just doesn't seem very good > for the chip. > > -chris > From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 29 13:35:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: IBM 2 MB hard drive (was Re: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3642.4.20.168.211.1035920243.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > Err, there never was a 2Mbyte hard drive. IIRC, the smallest one IBM > ever shipped was 10Mbytes (and was an ST412 in disguise). Sridhar wrote: > IBM definitely shipped a 5MB. Never heard of a 2MB. The IBM 1311 was a 2 MB hard drive using removable media. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 29 13:42:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Need SA400 help -- Apple ][ ROM -- etc In-Reply-To: <3DBE59D1.146B5D0@reeltapetransfer.com> References: <3DBE59D1.146B5D0@reeltapetransfer.com> Message-ID: <2820.4.20.168.211.1035920648.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > With interest in the Programmer's Aid, > I thought I had an Apple ][ RedBook, > so I went searching for it, hoping to find > info on the Aid ROM. Not found yet. The Red Book predates the Programmer's Aid #1 ROM, so it doesn't contain any documentation on it. A scan of the Red Book may be found at: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/apple/Apple%5d%5bRefJan78.pdf From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 29 13:46:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51270B4@MAIL10> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51270B4@MAIL10> Message-ID: <4968.4.20.168.211.1035920873.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I didn't realize that Integer BASIC also included the ROM image...in > which case I don't need it. Integer BASIC per se does NOT include Programmer's Aid #1. What we said was that the INTBASIC file on the DOS 3.3 System Master diskette contains it. (Sorry if I'm being too pedantic.) From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 29 13:51:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Drives? (was: RE: Tales of VCF 5.0?) In-Reply-To: <200210291725.g9THP2BU047459@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <000601c27ed1$cc046560$90f8b8ce@impac.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20021029072438.01b76e80@ubanproductions.com> <200210291725.g9THP2BU047459@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <2325.4.20.168.211.1035921222.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Didn't Seagate buy that part of CDC's disk drive business? Yes. CDC spun the division off as Imprimis, and Seagate bought it. They (Seagate) said that they would use the acquired technology to increase the reliability and performance of their drives, but I was worried that they would bring the quality of the Imprimis stuff down. On the whole, it looks like it was only a slight dip in Imprimis quality, and a huge improvement in Seagate's. So I guess it was one of the more successful mergers of high-tech companies. So many high-tech mergers prove to be collosal screw-ups (both technically and financially) that it's usually hard to think of any examples that weren't. From red at bears.org Tue Oct 29 13:58:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Drives? (was: RE: Tales of VCF 5.0?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > Does anyone recognize the drive with the numeric pad and LCD on the far > right of the above two photos? It looks nearly identical to the 4 drives > in my SGI 210S, and I'm still not exactly sure what type they are. > Seagate (nee CDC) Sabre. Available in a variety of capacities from 300 MB to 1.2 GB. ok r. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Oct 29 14:02:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Whats this nubus card? In-Reply-To: <3DBEC992.40904@ecubics.com> References: <3DBEC992.40904@ecubics.com> Message-ID: Whats this nubus card? Workstation Technologies card. No idea but I believe it was an early video conferencing setup. Appears to have an ADB or S-video connector, mini-Din serial, a three row DB-25. Has a 68030/33 processor on board so it must have some amount of horsepower in its day. Awesome looking card anyway. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Oct 29 14:03:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: <187820-2200210229183635538@buckeye-express.com> References: <187820-2200210229183635538@buckeye-express.com> Message-ID: >Wayne Stewart did a PDF conversion--not just a scan--of >the manual for the Apple II Programmers Aid ROM. There Someplace in my office I have a old program by Laser Systems that reads the rom and makes a "clean" commented disassembly listing of it. Randy Hyde wrote it as a kind of exercise for his disassembler, so its pretty complete as I remember with proper variable names etc. Apple didn't let it stay long on the market though. From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Oct 29 14:05:00 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: <3DBEC992.40904@ecubics.com> Message-ID: You know, after seeing all these pictures, and hearing about it, I do hope VCF East ends up in the New England area. I wonder if having a booth with my VaxStation 3100 m38, DEC 3000/400, Mac SE/30 (with split keyboard!) and maybe the Sun Ultra1E, all playing nice together, would look out of place? -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 29 14:11:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: IBM 2 MB hard drive (was Re: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY) In-Reply-To: <3642.4.20.168.211.1035920243.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > The IBM 1311 was a 2 MB hard drive using removable media. But it was never standard equipment for an IBM XT (as claimed on the machine at the Commodore users group booth, which also claimed to have been 2MHz) From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 29 14:13:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: References: <187820-2200210229183635538@buckeye-express.com> Message-ID: <3344.4.20.168.211.1035922427.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Mike Ford wrote: > Someplace in my office I have a old program by Laser Systems that reads > the rom and makes a "clean" commented disassembly listing of it. Randy > Hyde wrote it as a kind of exercise for his disassembler, so its pretty > complete as I remember with proper variable names etc. Apple didn't let > it stay long on the market though. I presume by "disassembly listing of it" you are referring to Integer BASIC. There's no need to disassemble Programmer's Aid #1 as the source listings are in the manual. There are some errata/patches to Programmer's Aid #1. I don't have the printed information, and I'm not sure whether the patches were applied to the version in the INTBASIC file. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 29 14:13:59 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: References: <3DBEC992.40904@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <1314.4.20.168.211.1035922493.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > You know, after seeing all these pictures, and hearing about it, I > do hope VCF East ends up in the New England area. I wonder if having a > booth with my VaxStation 3100 m38, DEC 3000/400, Mac SE/30 (with split > keyboard!) and maybe the Sun Ultra1E, all playing nice together, would > look out of place? No. And one certainly doesn't win the People's Choice award by showing off a single machine. From patrick at evocative.com Tue Oct 29 14:14:44 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: [OT] Fun find... Message-ID: I've had a "grab bag" of chips in a box for months that I haven't had time to sort. Last night I got the bug, and while straightening pins and sorting, I found an AY-3-8500-1, one of the original "Pong on a Chip" chips. I found some schematics online quite easily. Condition of the chip is unknown, and I guess I'm going to have to build to find out, unless one of you has a suggestion for a quick health check? Patrick From cb at mythtech.net Tue Oct 29 14:20:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Whats this nubus card? Message-ID: >Whats this nubus card? > >Workstation Technologies card. No idea but I believe it was an early video >conferencing setup. Appears to have an ADB or S-video connector, mini-Din >serial, a three row DB-25. Has a 68030/33 processor on board so it must >have some amount of horsepower in its day. Awesome looking card anyway. Hey.. no fair... I was going to buy first, ask questions later! (does this mean you beat me to responding to the guy on this?) -chris From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Oct 29 14:22:01 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: <1314.4.20.168.211.1035922493.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 10/29/02, Eric Smith scribbled: > > You know, after seeing all these pictures, and hearing about it, I > > do hope VCF East ends up in the New England area. I wonder if having a > > booth with my VaxStation 3100 m38, DEC 3000/400, Mac SE/30 (with split > > keyboard!) and maybe the Sun Ultra1E, all playing nice together, would > > look out of place? > > No. And one certainly doesn't win the People's Choice award by showing > off a single machine. Of course not! It's got to look pretty, and be fun. :) My wife ( with a Marketing degree) would be able to help me too. We don't know when (have to let 'em recover a little), but does anyone know where VCF East will be held? -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Oct 29 14:51:00 2002 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Swapping boards on ST225 drives / Philips P3800 help Message-ID: <20021029205308.92137.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Tony (and others), > I have the schematics of the ST225 somewhere. I misremembered about the drive - I've just had the case off the machine to get some pictures in response to Stefan's post about the P4500 (at www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/p3800 for anyone who's interested) The drive's a Rodime 202E which going from memory is 50MB or so. I'm quite keen to see if I can get this thing running now as it's got me curious. The key at the front has 3 settings - off, on and 'pm' - I have no idea what the latter does but the abbreviation might mean something to someone?? Applying power I get LEDs on the back of all cards, plus one labelled as +5V on the power supply board. No fan activity though and no hard disk spindle motor; maybe a +12V rail is dead or the problem might be more tricky to diagnose. There's five LEDs on the front of the case - labelled 1,2,3 and 4 plus one with a power symbol - none of those light when power is applied. Might be something stupid like the system is waiting for a console command before starting the disk but that's probably a little too hopeful :-) There's 6 cables hanging out the back, all terminated with 25 pin connectors. One's black and unlabelled, another is grey and unlabelled, and all the rest are grey and labelled as: '8 bit 3100', '16 bit 3100' '8 st' and '8 st4'. Mean anything to anyone? Are those terminal types or something? I'll reseat all the cards tomorrow and measure a few voltages to see what's what - plus connect the hard drive to a known-good supply and just check it does spin up. IC dates are all in 1984 so it's more recent than I thought (I'd guessed '82 or so) but no idea when it last ran or what it was used for. Hopefully the disk wasn't wiped prior to it being submerged in a flood! :) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Tue Oct 29 15:11:00 2002 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Philips P4500 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021028190557.00abe580@pop.softhome.net> Message-ID: <186df9-0y92ESC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:06:50 +0100, Stefan wrote: >Hiya, > >Does anybody know anything about a Philips P4500 ?? >I just now the size which is well, a decent size.... :) >Maybe someone has a picture ? > >Stefan. > Yes .. I had one in 1994. It was a formfaktor like a refrigerator or an ice-box. Now I must get my 'zollstock' for the metrical . I believe it was H1,5m x 0,9m x 0,8m. (m = german meter). It had an 12" harddisk on top with 2heads for one surface and 4 disks. look at http://groups.google.de/groups?hl=de&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=philips+p4500 for old mails. http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/other_hardware/in_the_basement/phillips_p4500_masterb oard_010.jpg MfG. Fritz Chwolka >> collecting old computers just for fun << << at www.alterechner.de >> From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Oct 29 15:13:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: <3344.4.20.168.211.1035922427.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <187820-2200210229183635538@buckeye-express.com> <3344.4.20.168.211.1035922427.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: >Mike Ford wrote: >> Someplace in my office I have a old program by Laser Systems that reads >> the rom and makes a "clean" commented disassembly listing of it. Randy >> Hyde wrote it as a kind of exercise for his disassembler, so its pretty >> complete as I remember with proper variable names etc. Apple didn't let >> it stay long on the market though. > >I presume by "disassembly listing of it" you are referring to Integer >BASIC. There's no need to disassemble Programmer's Aid #1 as the source >listings are in the manual. I think it was a disassembly listing of all the roms in a Apple II, it was called something revealed, maybe dos, or maybe I don't remember and now need to poke all over my office looking for it. From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Tue Oct 29 15:16:01 2002 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Philips P4500 In-Reply-To: <20021029173617.6248.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <186dk9-2H3XRwC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:36:17 +0000 (GMT), Jules Richardson wrote: > >> Does anybody know anything about a Philips P4500 ?? >> I just now the size which is well, a decent size.... :) >> Maybe someone has a picture ? > >not as such, but maybe it's a bigger brother of my P3800. In which case I'll be The p4500 has nothing to do with your 3800. The 3800 uses TurboDOS I believe like the P3500 http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/philips/p3500/ >amazed - I heard of one other Philips system a few years ago which was a > >cheers MfG. Fritz Chwolka >> collecting old computers just for fun << << at www.alterechner.de >> From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Oct 29 15:51:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: <1314.4.20.168.211.1035922493.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3DBEC992.40904@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021029154923.01eb3880@ubanproductions.com> At 12:14 PM 10/29/2002 -0800, Eric Smith wrote: > > You know, after seeing all these pictures, and hearing about it, I > > do hope VCF East ends up in the New England area. I wonder if having a > > booth with my VaxStation 3100 m38, DEC 3000/400, Mac SE/30 (with split > > keyboard!) and maybe the Sun Ultra1E, all playing nice together, would > > look out of place? > >No. And one certainly doesn't win the People's Choice award by showing >off a single machine. My limited experience (from taking my Imlac to VCF East 1.0) is that it is not the unique single machine that wins the price, but the machine(s) which the largest number of people attending have had some experience. If this is true, the two are pretty much mutually exclusive by nature. I've also found that more people seem to have had experience with the more recent "personal computers" than have with older minis, et al. --tom From donm at cts.com Tue Oct 29 18:46:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Removing glued on heatsink (was: Anyone need 486 motherboards?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > Ok, anyone know of a safe way of removing a glued on heatsink? I have a > few of these 486 CPUs where the heatsink is glued down. I could just jam > a screwdriver in and snap it off, but that just doesn't seem very good > for the chip. Better a single edge razor blade or a putty knife than a screwdriver! Too much local load with the screwdriver blade - probably crack the chip. - don > -chris > > > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Oct 29 18:48:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Wanted: VT100 PF1 key In-Reply-To: <3DBE163A.2C07E603@compsys.to> Message-ID: <5CD5C2B0-EBA1-11D6-939D-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Yeah, all I need is the plastic key top. The key works fine. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 12:01 AM, Jerome H. Fine wrote: >> Sark wrote: > >> On a similar note, my VT100 is missing the "Setup" key. Does anyone >> know where replacement keys can be found? > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Is the Setup key working and just missing the plastic top? > If Fred only needs the PF1 key, you can have the Setup > key. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > From donm at cts.com Tue Oct 29 19:09:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Swapping boards on ST225 drives / Philips P3800 help In-Reply-To: <20021029205308.92137.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Jules Richardson wrote: > Tony (and others), > > > I have the schematics of the ST225 somewhere. > > I misremembered about the drive - I've just had the case off the machine to get > some pictures in response to Stefan's post about the P4500 (at > www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/p3800 for anyone who's interested) > > The drive's a Rodime 202E which going from memory is 50MB or so. No, it is 21MB. > I'm quite keen to see if I can get this thing running now as it's got me > curious. The key at the front has 3 settings - off, on and 'pm' - I have no > idea what the latter does but the abbreviation might mean something to > someone?? > > Applying power I get LEDs on the back of all cards, plus one labelled as +5V on > the power supply board. No fan activity though and no hard disk spindle motor; > maybe a +12V rail is dead or the problem might be more tricky to diagnose. Absent 12V seems like the most likely problem, and the thing to check first. - don > There's five LEDs on the front of the case - labelled 1,2,3 and 4 plus one with > a power symbol - none of those light when power is applied. > > Might be something stupid like the system is waiting for a console command > before starting the disk but that's probably a little too hopeful :-) > > There's 6 cables hanging out the back, all terminated with 25 pin connectors. > One's black and unlabelled, another is grey and unlabelled, and all the rest > are grey and labelled as: '8 bit 3100', '16 bit 3100' '8 st' and '8 st4'. Mean > anything to anyone? Are those terminal types or something? > > I'll reseat all the cards tomorrow and measure a few voltages to see what's > what - plus connect the hard drive to a known-good supply and just check it > does spin up. > > IC dates are all in 1984 so it's more recent than I thought (I'd guessed '82 or > so) but no idea when it last ran or what it was used for. Hopefully the disk > wasn't wiped prior to it being submerged in a flood! :) > > cheers > > Jules > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Oct 29 19:10:05 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Removing glued on heatsink (was: Anyone need 486 motherboards?) Message-ID: <200210300111.RAA03398@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Don Maslin" > > >On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > >> Ok, anyone know of a safe way of removing a glued on heatsink? I have a >> few of these 486 CPUs where the heatsink is glued down. I could just jam >> a screwdriver in and snap it off, but that just doesn't seem very good >> for the chip. > >Better a single edge razor blade or a putty knife than a screwdriver! >Too much local load with the screwdriver blade - probably crack the >chip. > - don > >> -chris >> >> Hi I've always removed glued things from chips by heating it first with a hot plate. We used to remove the epoxied covers from EPROMs this way in the lab when someone would plug one in upside down. This way we could replace the blown bonding wire ( the most common failure for reversed power ). It was handy to have a wire bonder around ( Ah, the good old days ). Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 29 19:14:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Micropolis hdd In-Reply-To: <3DBDFEAF.1000605@rogers.com> from "Stan Pietkiewicz" at Oct 28, 2 10:21:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 742 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021029/c6e35413/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 29 19:14:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY In-Reply-To: <3DBE33C0.9040700@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Oct 29, 2 00:07:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 426 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021029/144624ce/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 29 19:16:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Oct 29, 2 11:58:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1214 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021029/5ba83486/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 29 19:16:51 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Swapping boards on ST225 drives / Philips P3800 help In-Reply-To: <20021029205308.92137.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Oct 29, 2 08:53:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2119 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021029/632396d3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 29 19:17:37 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: For Sale: Diamond D5 Wordprocessor In-Reply-To: <20021029113438.90541.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Oct 29, 2 11:34:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1289 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021029/ce977179/attachment.ksh From jwillis at arielusa.com Tue Oct 29 20:09:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6D9@deathstar.arielnet.com> Hello all, I just a couple of days ago picked up a VAX 11/750. This machine has been stored in a damp shed for ten years or so, has had mice living in it, and the usual assortment of spiders, etc. After bringing it home, I immediately wrote down what cards were in what slots, etc, before dismantling the system for cleaning. Everything is out of the chassis, with the exception of the console cable and the wires that connect the backplane to the control panel and TU58 tape drive. I'm in the process of cleaning all the components, but am in search of some advice on this process, especially the power supply. How long should I let the power supply dry out from its prior damp condition, and what should I do to bring it up for testing without risking damage to other components? I wish to do this methodically and carefully. Thanks Much! John Willis From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Oct 29 20:28:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: IBM 9121 needs home, currently in Cambridge, MA In-Reply-To: <2lr8e9ivv7.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> Message-ID: > In addition to the VAX 7000-610, MIT (in cambridge, massachusetts, > USA) is also getting ready to trash an IBM mainframe CPU, a 9121. From > the description below, it sounds like no DASD or tape with this one. > You can contact me if interested. Very cool. What kind of time period for trashing of the 9121? Interested parties wabt to know... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Oct 29 20:53:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:27 2005 Subject: MAC's from N.A. > Africa? In-Reply-To: References: <20021027160237.NSZW5548.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3DBEF482.6895.DCE0552@localhost> > >I've been asked what is required to make MAC's (Plus, SE, CI, FX) from > >North America run in Africa. > > > >I took a quick looked at a few of mine and didn't notice a switch on the > >back of the powe supply like some of the older PC's had. > > > >Is the costs worth the cost of shipping? > > Many early macs were world machines, just use a cable with the > correction plug for that country and the mac worked fine without > diddling any switches or anything. Here is a link to the Apple Spec > > http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112170 > > Something I tell people about older computers, anything is SO much > better than nothing. AMEN, brother !! I find so many people rationalizing their fear of computers by saying they'll get one when they can save up enough to afford the latest gee-whiz whiz-bang model. Of course the marketeers play the tune that only the newest are capable of the marvels of "modern" computing and games, as displayed on TV about the marvellous wonders of the "computer age". I am a bit of a computer evangelist up here in the boonies of western Canada. The depopulation of the prairies by agribusiness and the death of the family farm has resulted in the children going to work in the cities and the older folk staying behind . So the dying towns have a disproportionate number of seniors. Computers could make their lives easier but they're a hard sell. I read an an article that claimed the major computer companies in the 80s, finding that the main opposition to change came from senior managers, targeted their advertising(propaganda) at the younger market. As a result there is likely a bigger generational gap than that between "rockand roll" and "swing". And of course the younger generation (as always) views anything that isn't on the "bleeding edge" of anything, as unworthy or useless. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Oct 29 20:53:54 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Dates (again) In-Reply-To: <001401c27f5c$78498c80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3DBEF482.5329.DCE052A@localhost> Oooh, what catches my eye is the PS/2 CL57 SX color. I wonder if that is a L-T version of the 8557, announce date: June, 1991. I wonder if it also has a SCSI port. Never heard of this model before. Damn, I want one. Lawrence > +AD4- I'm looking for the model name/number and date of > +AD4- introduction of the first IBM ThinkPad, > > The laptop sales literature I have says: > Thinkpad > 1992-10-05: Thinkpad name announced > models: 700,700C,700T,300 > pre-Thinkpad > 1992-07-22: PS/note N45SL > 1992-03-24: PS/2 CL57 SX color announced > 1991-02: L40SX > > John A. > PS/note. The successor to +ACI-PS/Boat+ACI-. > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Oct 29 21:51:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: MAC's from N.A. > Africa? In-Reply-To: <3DBEF482.6895.DCE0552@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > And of course the younger generation (as always) views anything that > isn't on the "bleeding edge" of anything, as unworthy or useless. Well, not always. I started deliberately collecting older systems when I was in college--around 1994. My girlfriend, who is younger still, has nice start on a collection of her own; included in it are some NeXTs, a Mac SE, a Televideo terminal, and an Apple IIc. She even spent one summer aiding in the cleaning of the Memory Test Computer from Project Whirlwind at the MIT Museum: I have the best girlfriend EVER! -brian. From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Oct 29 22:09:00 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Removing glued on heatsink (was: Anyone need 486 motherboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021030041058.JEI14348.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Don Maslin > To: Classic Computer > Subject: Re: Removing glued on heatsink (was: Anyone need 486 motherboards?) > Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:48:26 -0800 (PST) > > > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > > > Ok, anyone know of a safe way of removing a glued on heatsink? I have a > > few of these 486 CPUs where the heatsink is glued down. I could just jam > > a screwdriver in and snap it off, but that just doesn't seem very good > > for the chip. > > Better a single edge razor blade or a putty knife than a screwdriver! > Too much local load with the screwdriver blade - probably crack the > chip. > - don Or dull 1" chisel w/ flat side parallel to cpu and carefully whack away with mallet or like. Rest the cpu on it's edges upright. This is one I prefer. Cheers, Wizard > > > -chris > > > > > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Oct 29 22:33:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 In-Reply-To: from "John Willis" at Oct 29, 2002 07:11:29 PM Message-ID: <200210300435.g9U4ZDq03801@shell1.aracnet.com> > I just a couple of days ago picked up a VAX 11/750. This machine has Cool! > been stored > in a damp shed for ten years or so, has had mice living in it, and the > usual assortment of spiders, etc. Oh, SHUDDER! It sounds like you're in for an interesting restoration process. > to the control panel and TU58 tape drive. I'm in the process of cleaning > all the components, > but am in search of some advice on this process, especially the power > supply. How long > should I let the power supply dry out from its prior damp condition, and > what should > I do to bring it up for testing without risking damage to other > components? I wish to > do this methodically and carefully. Unless this is a powersupply that needs a load on it when you power it on (anyone know?), I'd recommend having it totally disconnected when you power it on. I'd also recommend you have someone else standing by with a C02 Fire Extinguisher for safety. As for how long it needs to dry before powering up, I'm not really sure, if you've got it in a warm, heated location, I'd say a week or two should be plenty (probably doesn't need that much but it's better to ere on the side of caution). Something to do in the mean time is to look for corrosion and to get everything good and clean. I'm most concerned about your powersupply and backplane. Also take a look at the rollers in your TU58. While the following is for a PDP-8, you might find it useful. http://pdp-8.org/revive.htm Definitly read up on what Aaron has to say about Backplanes. Zane From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Oct 29 22:48:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: MAC's from N.A. > Africa? In-Reply-To: from Brian Chase at "Oct 29, 2 07:53:26 pm" Message-ID: <200210300459.VAA06686@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > And of course the younger generation (as always) views anything that > > isn't on the "bleeding edge" of anything, as unworthy or useless. > > Well, not always. I started deliberately collecting older systems when > I was in college--around 1994. And in my case, I used my Commodore 64 as my only word processor right up until I graduated high school in '93. My parents finally got their first PC around that time. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- There's an old proverb that says just about whatever you want it to. ------- From curt at atari-history.com Tue Oct 29 23:01:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: I can't believe this?!??! References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD78@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <001901c27fd1$732a0020$0b00a8c0@cvendel> In all that is the collective geek-dome of classic computers, I find it boggling to see that no one has (or wishes to share... you greedy SOB ;-) the technical manual and/or jumper settings for the elusive DEC KZQSA Qbus to SCSI adapter boards.... come on, I challenge the collective knowledge base of the DEC geeks to come up with this mysterious and treasured knowledge and share it with the list. The winner gets a free 6 pak of JOLT soda for those looooonnnnngggggggg caffeine induced late nights ;-) Curt From curt at atari-history.com Tue Oct 29 23:03:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] References: Message-ID: <001e01c27fd1$bd439310$0b00a8c0@cvendel> I vote for somewhere in CT this year, it will give those in the Southeast an easier drive up (seems like a lot of people in Virginia and PA would attend) and be more of a median point for all. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Woyciesjes" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 3:25 PM Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] > On 10/29/02, Eric Smith scribbled: > > > > You know, after seeing all these pictures, and hearing about it, I > > > do hope VCF East ends up in the New England area. I wonder if having a > > > booth with my VaxStation 3100 m38, DEC 3000/400, Mac SE/30 (with split > > > keyboard!) and maybe the Sun Ultra1E, all playing nice together, would > > > look out of place? > > > > No. And one certainly doesn't win the People's Choice award by showing > > off a single machine. > > Of course not! It's got to look pretty, and be fun. :) My wife ( > with a Marketing degree) would be able to help me too. > > We don't know when (have to let 'em recover a little), but does > anyone know where VCF East will be held? > > -- > --- David A. Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Oct 29 23:09:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021029112230.01d87948@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <007701c27fd2$c93b94a0$633acd18@D73KSM11> > > Nobody got it! O well.... > > I noticed the scope in your rack, but I quite reading the scope thread > long ago... > Well I saw it there, wondered about it, but didn't want to display my ignorance by asking. -W From dittman at dittman.net Tue Oct 29 23:11:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: I can't believe this?!??! In-Reply-To: from "Curt Vendel" at Oct 30, 2002 12:01:47 AM Message-ID: <200210300506.g9U56t031399@narnia.int.dittman.net> > In all that is the collective geek-dome of classic computers, I find it > boggling to see that no one has (or wishes to share... you greedy SOB ;-) > the technical manual and/or jumper settings for the elusive DEC KZQSA Qbus > to SCSI adapter boards.... come on, I challenge the collective knowledge > base of the DEC geeks to come up with this mysterious and treasured > knowledge and share it with the list. The winner gets a free 6 pak of > JOLT soda for those looooonnnnngggggggg caffeine induced late nights ;-) Courtesy of Google (first entry I found): There are three sets of jumpers on the KZQSA: 1) W1 to W7 select the CSR address; the interrupt vector is programmable, so there are no jumpers to set it. Since it sounds like your setup is fairly simple, I'll guess that your CSR is at or near the default address and list a few corresponding jumper settings ... if the CSR that CONFIGURE gives you is not below, you might want to post it, so that one us can verify the correct jumper settings, just to be on the safe side. CSR W7 W6 W5 W4 W3 W2 W1 ------ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 761300 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 (default) 761400 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 761500 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 But generally, you can work out the jumper settings as follows: if W7 is 0 (not set), the CSR is 76xy00, but it it is set (1), the CSR is 77xy00; the octal digit "x" is determined by the settings of W6 to W4, and the digit "y" is determined by W3 to W1 as illustrated by a few examples: 760100 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 760400 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 761000 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 764000 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 770000 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 2) W9 to W13 determine the memory base address; the default is the address range 01000000-01377777 for the 128 KB memory on the KZQSA, for which only W10 is set and the others are not. You need to arrange for all modules that use Qbus memory space to have unique address ranges ... but this is normally not such a problem, since not so many modules use Qbus memory space. To see if it is a problem in your configuration, issue a SHOW QBUS command from the console prompt (>>>); at the end of the output (after the scan of IO space), you will find the Scan of Qbus Memory Space, which shows which address ranges are in use. If 01000000-01377777 does not overlap any range currently in use (if any), you have no problem and can just use the default jumper setting here. Otherwise, the address selection jumpers just increase the base address of the KZQSA's 128 KB memory in steps of 128 KB; i.e., address range W13 W12 W11 W10 W9 ----------------- --- --- --- --- --- 00000000-00377777 0 0 0 0 0 00400000-00777777 0 0 0 0 1 01000000-01377777 0 0 0 1 0 (default) 01400000-01777777 0 0 0 1 1 ... 17400000-17777777 1 1 1 1 1 Also note that W8 is in the same jumper block as W9-W13; I have no idea what it does, probably best to leave it alone... 3) W14 to W16 set the SCSI ID of the KZQSA; W14 sets the MSB (4) and W16 the LSB (1). The default is 7, which should be OK for most purposes. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Tue Oct 29 23:24:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: I can't believe this?!??! In-Reply-To: from "Curt Vendel" at Oct 30, 2002 12:01:47 AM Message-ID: <200210300520.g9U5K6R31434@narnia.int.dittman.net> BTW, I've found my VAX 4000 reports errors and will not boot if the KZQSA is not properly terminated. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Oct 29 23:26:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Removing glued on heatsink (was: Anyone need 486 motherboard In-Reply-To: <20021030041058.JEI14348.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20021030052833.93871.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> I have heard that freezing works (with a can of freeze spray). Never done it, though. --- jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > From: Don Maslin > > To: Classic Computer > > > Subject: Re: Removing glued on heatsink > (was: Anyone need 486 motherboards?) > > Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:48:26 -0800 > (PST) > > > > > > > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > > > > > Ok, anyone know of a safe way of removing a > glued on heatsink? I have a > > > few of these 486 CPUs where the heatsink is > glued down. I could just jam > > > a screwdriver in and snap it off, but that just > doesn't seem very good > > > for the chip. > > > > Better a single edge razor blade or a putty knife > than a screwdriver! > > Too much local load with the screwdriver blade - > probably crack the > > chip. > > - don > > Or dull 1" chisel w/ flat side parallel to cpu and > carefully whack > away with mallet or like. Rest the cpu on it's > edges upright. > > This is one I prefer. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > > > > > -chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From jwillis at arielusa.com Tue Oct 29 23:47:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6DA@deathstar.arielnet.com> I've removed (as of tonight) all the parts out of the chassis, documenting where everything goes. I cleaned the chassis very carefully. Once the card cage/ backplane was out, it was obvious that these parts were in beautiful condition, if not more than a little bit dusty. A couple of bent pins in back were easily corrected, and the entire assembly sits waiting to be reinstalled in the chassis. The TU58, unfortunately, did not fare quite as well, as the mice had chosen it as their nesting place. After finally managing to get the tape that was in it loosened up, it came out coated with mouse fur and mouse droppings etc. The rollers are entirely wound up in this stuff. It sits in a box awaiting later attempts at cleaning. I hold out little hope. The power supply, which seems to consist of a controller and two actual PSUs, looks solid from the outside, and also what I can see of the inside. It appears to have large battery packs in the bottom of it. These, certainly, would be dead after all this time. Are they important? Maybe theyre not even batteries... The H7112A looks solid, but again, I haven't explored inside. Everything in the system has a light coating of New Mexico red clay dust. The blower/motor assembly from the bottom of the cabinet awaits cleaning. The blower itself turns freely, which I'm taking as a good sign. The cards are pristine, L0002, L0003, L0004, L0008, L0007, L0016. There are 8 memory boards (M8750), several bus grant cards, a card labeled "M9313" and one labeled "M9202." I also found in the bottom of the system an M9014 Unibus to H854 adapter that wasn't plugged in. I also have a DELUA. -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy Sent: Tue 10/29/2002 9:35 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 > I just a couple of days ago picked up a VAX 11/750. This machine has Cool! > been stored > in a damp shed for ten years or so, has had mice living in it, and the > usual assortment of spiders, etc. Oh, SHUDDER! It sounds like you're in for an interesting restoration process. > to the control panel and TU58 tape drive. I'm in the process of cleaning > all the components, > but am in search of some advice on this process, especially the power > supply. How long > should I let the power supply dry out from its prior damp condition, and > what should > I do to bring it up for testing without risking damage to other > components? I wish to > do this methodically and carefully. Unless this is a powersupply that needs a load on it when you power it on (anyone know?), I'd recommend having it totally disconnected when you power it on. I'd also recommend you have someone else standing by with a C02 Fire Extinguisher for safety. As for how long it needs to dry before powering up, I'm not really sure, if you've got it in a warm, heated location, I'd say a week or two should be plenty (probably doesn't need that much but it's better to ere on the side of caution). Something to do in the mean time is to look for corrosion and to get everything good and clean. I'm most concerned about your powersupply and backplane. Also take a look at the rollers in your TU58. While the following is for a PDP-8, you might find it useful. http://pdp-8.org/revive.htm Definitly read up on what Aaron has to say about Backplanes. Zane -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4442 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021029/e9b1ae28/attachment.bin From fernande at internet1.net Wed Oct 30 00:25:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 Message-ID: <3DBF7B74.9090201@internet1.net> Hi All, I keep looking on Ebay for AIX media. I have a 7013-530 Powerstation. What's the best version for me to pick up? Will I be able to install it with out an official IBM license code/number/etc? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 30 01:43:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Drives? (was: RE: Tales of VCF 5.0?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Does anyone recognize the drive with the numeric pad and LCD on the > > far right of the above two photos? It looks nearly identical to the 4 > > drives in my SGI 210S, and I'm still not exactly sure what type they > > are. > > Seagate (nee CDC) Sabre. Available in a variety of capacities from 300 > MB to 1.2 GB. That sounds about right. I think I remember reading somewhere on the drives in the 210S that they were at least 1GB in capacity. The current that they may draw still worries me too... -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 30 01:55:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Taking our cue from a recent long and nearly-immortal thread on > > Oscilloscopes; sub-Tektronix scopes; sub-sub rack-mount Tek scopes - > > Marvin and I concocted a nice visual in-joke. I mounted a working > > RM503 in the rack with my PDP 11/44 and waited for one of the > > Listmembers to notice it and laugh. And I waited.... and waited.... > > > > Nobody got it! O well.... > > I don;t 'get it' either. OK, so you put an old Tektronix 'scope in the > PDP11 Rack. But Tekky 500s were sitll in common use when PDP11s were in > use. It wouldn't be a particularly uncommon thing to have near a PDP11 > system. > > If I'd seen it, I'd have assuemd you were using it as a vector display > device (this was not at all uncommon) and would probably have asked what > DAC you were driving it from (VT11, AA11-K, AR11-K, LPS, whatever). It > wouldn't have struck me as 'odd'. I also noticed the scope in the photos. Even though I thought it was abit curious, I'm afraid I would have likely made the same assumption in that it was being used as a vector display. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 30 02:02:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Removing glued on heatsink (was: Anyone need 486 motherboards?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > Ok, anyone know of a safe way of removing a glued on heatsink? I have a > few of these 486 CPUs where the heatsink is glued down. I could just jam > a screwdriver in and snap it off, but that just doesn't seem very good > for the chip. Well, it depends...were the heatsinks factory installed or added to a stock cpu? If it is a factory job, and you just want to identify the chip, the markings on the bottom should suffice. Otherwise, many types of thermal epoxy are evil and nearly impossible to remove without damaging the cpu... -Toth From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Oct 30 02:15:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: I want an old tape drive motor In-Reply-To: <3DBEF482.5329.DCE052A@localhost> References: <3DBEF482.5329.DCE052A@localhost> Message-ID: Given this list is a pretty diverse bunch of surplus prowlers, I am wondering if anybody knows where I can find a couple super low inertia motors like some older tape drives and other very rapid positioning equipment used. They are easy to spot once you have seen one, imagine a super large sams club sized tuna can (say 4" tall x 7" dia) with a single portion fruit can on top and shafts sticking out the top and bottom. A couple big knobs for brushes etc. and if you touch the shaft it turns like nothing is there, very low inertia. Here is a picture, and you can even see the two in the middle still have some sort of tape drive capstan thing I think. You can see they vary from pricey at C&H (which is the only place I am finding any in stock) to $5 or $10 at most swapmeets, and around $25 at cheaper surplus joints. Still much cheaper than the new price around $600. What I need is one, maybe two if the price is good and they meet these specs; Motor Moment of Inertia (Jm) = 0.0007 to 0.0009 oz/inch sec^2 Torque constant (Kt) = 9 oz/inch per Ampere (for 1 Ohm motor, ie. Rdc = 1 Ohm) Torque constant (Kt) = 14 oz/inch per Ampere (for 2 Ohm motor, ie. Rdc = 2 Ohm) Drive shaft = 3/8 in. (diameter) "Figure of Merit" (FoM) = Kt/(Square root of Rdc) = 9.9 oz-in of torque per watt disipation Any of the following should do, but I would prefer a 4VM82 due to higher heat rating. Pacific Scientific 4VM62 XXX 4VM82 XXX Yaskawa S-12-B Electro-Craft M-1140 The XXX just means the numbers don't matter. I had a 33VM62 that was brand new in my hands at TRW swapmeet, but haggling fell through at $7, and good that it did as that one has too low torque. For the curious this is to be used as the drive motor in a Contrabass subwoofer. I do have some real plans to play with one as a computer controlled positioning system. Sorry if its too off topic for some, but it is an old computer motor. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Oct 30 02:30:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 In-Reply-To: <3DBF7B74.9090201@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I keep looking on Ebay for AIX media. I have a 7013-530 Powerstation. > What's the best version for me to pick up? Will I be able to install it > with out an official IBM license code/number/etc? At /least/ AIX 4.3.3 should run alright on it. I'm not sure about the newer AIX 5L releases; they may have dropped support for the older systems. IBM's You don't need a license code; just the media and a CD-ROM drive from which to boot it. -brian. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Oct 30 02:33:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels In-Reply-To: <002301c26fce$8389fdc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <002301c26fce$8389fdc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: >Hi all, > OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so disks >to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled using >felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come off without Most office supply type joints sell label remover. If I was just doing a few I might try goo gone and a knife of some kind or scraper. I bought a couple white pigment pens, actually paint I guess, but they write white on black etc. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Oct 30 03:30:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF17@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >I just a couple of days ago picked up a VAX 11/750. This machine has >been stored in a damp shed for ten years or so, has had mice living in it, Sounds like you are in for a bunch of fun ! If the mice chewed through the docs you can find a set of prints and a few manuals at: http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm I don't think the Installation and Acceptance manual covers infestation in great depth though :-) Antonio From fernande at internet1.net Wed Oct 30 04:04:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 References: Message-ID: <3DBFAE9E.4080004@internet1.net> Brian Chase wrote: > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > >>I keep looking on Ebay for AIX media. I have a 7013-530 Powerstation. >>What's the best version for me to pick up? Will I be able to install it >>with out an official IBM license code/number/etc? > > > At /least/ AIX 4.3.3 should run alright on it. I'm not sure about the > newer AIX 5L releases; they may have dropped support for the older > systems. IBM's You don't need a license code; just the media and a > CD-ROM drive from which to boot it. > > -brian. Is 4.3.3 the last release of AIX 4? Thats the latest release I've seen on Ebay. I was hoping I would here that 4.3.2, or 4.3.1 were "best" for my machine.... they're cheaper :-) I don't think 5 has Microchannel support, or so I think I heard. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Wed Oct 30 07:01:00 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: The 5155 Challenge... Message-ID: <3DBF6837.19905.A5BFEA6@localhost> ...At least that it what I called the little challenge I gave myself tonight. I had my IBM 5155 (aka the Portable PC) opened up in order to test some MFM hard drives (a task that failed miserably because the drive controller couldn't handle the ST-251 drives). As often happens, I got sidetracked and started pondering the very limited clearance that most of the slots in the 5155 have, due to the hard drive and floppy drive taking up so much space. I found myself thinking that it would be a shame to waste so many otherwise useful slots; and I subsequently started plotting out what could fit in there. Here is a picture of the (almost) final results... I say almost, because the one full-clearance slot that is still empty has a card slated to go in it, a 3Com EtherLink II. I just have to remember where I put the thing. The last slot is currently being used up by the parallel and joystick connectors that are coming off the IO card in the first slot. I may go ahead and remove those connectors and use that slot for a dual joystick controller card that I have around here somewhere. FWIW, here is what Crysta is now equipped with... Slot 0: - IO Card (RAM, Serial, Parallel, Joystick) Slot 1: - Floppy Controller Slot 2: - Sound Card - Covox SoundMaster II Slot 3: - Reserved for NIC (3Com EtherLink II-TP) Slot 4: - CGA Adapter - DFI 2002 Slot 5: - HDC - WD1002A-WX1 Slot 6: - SCSI - NCS-250-SC Slot 7: - Reserved for Suncom Joystick Card So, anyone else here ever maxed out a 5155 before? Great thing about having SCSI capability is that being limited to a 20MB MFM hard drive is no longer a major concern. If I need more drive space, all I have to do now is hang an external SCSI drive or two or three off the system. Also, while I was working on Crysta, I was thinking that this might actually be a good candidate for the control terminal for the Cromemco System Two; at least until I can get an actual Cromemco Smart Terminal... Anyway, enough random nattering from me for tonight. Time to get the clutter cleared up and go get some sleep. -- Scarletdown From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Wed Oct 30 07:06:00 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: The 5155 Challenge... Message-ID: <3DBF6916.7761.A5F67DB@localhost> could fit in there. > > Here is a picture of the (almost) final results... > Naturally, I forgot to post the link to the picture... http://www.oz.net/~otter/geekworks/Crysta-00.JPG -- Scarletdown From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Oct 30 07:08:11 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: I want an old tape drive motor In-Reply-To: References: <3DBEF482.5329.DCE052A@localhost> <3DBEF482.5329.DCE052A@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021030080307.007734ec@pop1.epm.net.co> At 11:33 PM 10/29/02 -0800, you wrote: >...I am wondering if anybody knows where I can find a couple super low >inertia motors like some older tape drives and other very rapid >positioning equipment used -snip- >Motor Moment of Inertia (Jm) = 0.0007 to 0.0009 oz/inch sec^2 >Torque constant (Kt) = 9 oz/inch per Ampere (for 1 Ohm motor, ie. Rdc = 1 Ohm) >Torque constant (Kt) = 14 oz/inch per Ampere (for 2 Ohm motor, ie. Rdc = 2 Ohm) >Drive shaft = 3/8 in. (diameter) >"Figure of Merit" (FoM) = Kt/(Square root of Rdc) = 9.9 oz-in of >torque per watt disipation So you want to build a contrabass? I have never heard one... but I have always been skeptical about its ability to put out HiFi. The reason is that people use DC servomotors with *brushes*, and believe, the behavior of these things at low speeds is very nasty in terms of nonlinearity: static friction, nonlinear torque(i,theta); so until someone proves me wrong I think that they are just huge rumble-makers without any HiFi attributes. Now, if they used a high-grade brushless servo with special feedback control algorithmics and sensors... and a more reversible, static friction-less kind of transmission... I might buy the idea. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From thompson at new.rr.com Wed Oct 30 08:13:00 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 In-Reply-To: <3DBFAE9E.4080004@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Brian Chase wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > > > >>I keep looking on Ebay for AIX media. I have a 7013-530 Powerstation. > >>What's the best version for me to pick up? Will I be able to install it > >>with out an official IBM license code/number/etc? > > > > > > At /least/ AIX 4.3.3 should run alright on it. I'm not sure about the > > newer AIX 5L releases; they may have dropped support for the older > > systems. IBM's You don't need a license code; just the media and a > > CD-ROM drive from which to boot it. > > > > -brian. > > Is 4.3.3 the last release of AIX 4? Thats the latest release I've seen > on Ebay. I was hoping I would here that 4.3.2, or 4.3.1 were "best" for > my machine.... they're cheaper :-) I seem to recall that support for certain fairly common microchannel graphics boards was dropped in later versions of AIX 4. 4.1.5 has a good combination of Y2K and microchannel support if graphics is a concern. From vance at neurotica.com Wed Oct 30 08:41:00 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Anyone need 486 motherboards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > Does anyone want some 486 motherboards? I'm not sure who makes them (made > in Tiawan, SiS chipset). > > They have the CPU (486 DX/2 50Mhz); 6 ISA slots, 2- 72pin SIMM slots and > 8- 30 pin slots, AMI bios, AT keyboard, SiS chipset. And I'll throw in > the VGA card and I/O cards that are currently installed with them (I/O > card has FDD, IDE, LPT, 2- Com). Both are ISA cards, but have a 2nd > connector that looks a bit like AGP and hangs off the back end of the ISA > slots (3 of the 6 slots have this addition connector, so these two cards > fit into 2 of those). Are they ALL DX2-50's? I'm looking for a DX-50. The ISA + other connector is a VESA local bus slot. I have a couple of VL video and SCSI cards lying around somewhere. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Wed Oct 30 08:43:13 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Anyone need 486 motherboards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Are they ALL DX2-50's? I'm looking for a DX-50. > > > > I'll double check, but yeah, I am pretty sure these 4 are DX2-50. > > > > I also have a small stack of 486 CPUs (cpu chip only), and there might > > be a regular DX in there (I know there are some SX and DX2's... as well > > as a few that the chip is glued to the heatsink, so I'm not sure what > > they are) > > If your board can accept one, a DX2-66 performs better than a DX50. The > DX2-66 only has a 33MHz clock, but if the motherboard has VLB slots, a > 33MHz bus is a must, since anything faster causes timing problems. (A > 40MHz bus can be made to work, but it isn't fun...) If the board has an > oscillator can or speed selection jumpers, it should be easy to use a > DX2-66 instead of a DX50. I am looking specifically for a DX-50 for something special. Peace... Sridhar From mike at otterway.com Wed Oct 30 09:26:48 2002 From: mike at otterway.com (Mike Noel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: am100 emulator, aka vam, aka virtual alpha micro, ... Message-ID: Forwarding this to the classic cmp list 'cause I know some of you are interested, but I'm not an active reader of this list. > For anyone interested, here is the 0.3 snapshot of my alpha-micro am-100 > emulator. > > http://www.otterway.com/am100 > > This is the first to boot AMOS and run BASIC! Here's the $README... > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ------------------- > > /* AM-100.doc (c) Copyright Mike Noel, 2001-2002 */ > > > PREFACE > > This software is an emulator for the Alpha-Micro AM-100 computer. It is > copyright by Michael Noel and licensed for non-commercial hobbyist use under > terms of the "Q public license", an open source certified license. > > There exist known serious discrepancies between this software's internal > functioning and that of a real AM-100, as well as between it and the WD-1600 > manual describing the functionality of a real AM-100, and even between it > and the comments in the code describing what it is intended to do! Notice > that this software hasn't reached the 1.0 version yet. In fact it's a long > way from it. It's not beta; it's alpha. Use it at your own risk! > > Reliability aside, it is not the intent of the copyright holder to use this > software to compete with current or future Alpha-Micro products, and no > such competing application of the software will be supported. > > Alpha-Micro and other software that may be run on this emulator are not > covered by the above copyright or license and must be legally obtained from > an authorized source. > > As this is written I have permission from Alpha-Micro to distribute AMOS 5.0 > with the emulator so you can get that from me too - but it is subject to > their terms and conditions. > > > INSTALLATION > > Preferred installation is to compile the source on the target machine. > Tested targets include Red Hat Linux (6.1, 6.2, 7.0, 7,1, and 7.2) and > Microsoft Windows 98SE and 2000 using Cygwin 1.3.12-2 and 1.3.13-1. Frankly, > Windows 98 is not a good target. Windows 2000 and Linux are both OK. > > Step Zero. You have at least 12 megs free space - right? > > We will assume you have downloaded the source and > AMOS into a directory on your (running, known good) > linux or cygwin system; those files being > > ./AM-100-0.3.tgz > ./amos50.tgz > > Step One. Create a sub directory and untar the source. > > mkdir am > cd am > mv ../AM-100-0.3.tgz . > mv ../AMOS50.tgz > tar -xzf AM-100-0.3.tgz > tar -xzf amos50.tgz > > Step Two. Compile the source. > > make > > Step Three. Run it! > > ./AM-100 > > Step Four. What's this message... > > "boot failed! Problem with 'dsk0-container' ?" > > dsk0-container is the name of the file that represents DSK0 > in the emulator. Similarly, dsk1-container represents DSK1, > and dsk2-container and dsk3-container do the obvious. Each > container is 10 megs (19980 blocks). > > Since you might already have a dsk0-container, I've packaged > the AMOS release as dsk1-container. If you have enough free > space just copy dsk1-container to dsk0-container - if not > rename instead. > > Then run it again! > > cp dsk1-container dsk0-container > ./AM-100 > > Step Five. It booted - right? > > If not contact me & I'll try to help you figure out why... > > > OPERATION > > The window you run this in (msdos? cygwin? xterm?) is probably defaulted > to 25 lines x 80 columns. You need to shrink it to 24x80 (or vue and fix > won't scroll correctly). One reason I don't like W98 is I haven't found a > way to do that there... > > If you've other containers (dsk1-container, etal) you can mount and unmount > them as you like. Can't change without restarting the emulator thou... > > All the control keys should work. Esc should work. The Arrow keys, Insert, > Delete, Home, End, PgUp, and PgDn should work - at least as I would want > them to!! > > Watch out for ALT keys. ALT C means quit the emulator. ALT T toggles > instruction tracing. ALT S toggles instruction stepping (which doesn't work > in this release). See PS3.C for all the key mappings. > > Console output is to STDOUT. Traces go to STDERR. So if you want to try a > trace but don't want it mixed with your screen, start the emulator with > > ./AM-100 2>AM-100.log > > Then all the trace output goes into a file. Watch out - it gets huge very > very fast. Actually there is also a "user" trace facility, but I'm not > ready to try and document it yet. > > There are some other tricks you can play with STDOUT and STDERR. One is to > TEE the STDOUT so that all your console activity gets copied into a file. > Like this: > > ./AM-100 | tee AM-100.lst > or: > ./AM-100 2>AM-100.log | tee AM-100.lst > > CUT and PASTE works with the STDOUT console window. Access them by clicking > on the little icon on the left of the window bar. They are under 'edit'. > So copy that big basic program off your real machine and paste it into AMOS > basic (or edit) (or whatever). > > DO NOT USE DIRSEQ. It scrambles directories. I will track that down and > fix it for the next release. > > > PERFORMANCE > > Performance has not been a design consideration. There are dozens of places > it could be dramatically improved. My judgment is that's not worth the > effort. But judge for yourself. On a Pentium 166 laptop with linux 6.2 it > seems pretty close to what I remember my AM-100 being able to do. The ways > that AMOS loops when it doesn't have work are converted into sleeps, so it's > pretty low impact even on an old slow box. > > Of course on a 2.4 gig p4 it screams. Certainly much faster than the > AM-1000 I traded in my old AM-100 to buy, but I've no idea how it compares > to modern systems. > > Maybe someone will run some benchmarks??? > > > WHAT IS CHANGED/ADDED TO AMOS 5.0? > > Not much. The system.mon is a standard mongen of sysbsw.mon and my own disk > driver vdk.dvr[1,6]. I patched ps3.idv[1,6] to create ps3new.idv[1,6]. > Ansi.tdv[1,6] is a hack of a vt100 driver I wrote years ago. System.ini[1,4] > is a demonstration of bank switched memory. Spoolr.ini[1,4] is just a way > to test lptspl with output to the console. > > Source for vdk.dvr, ps3new.idv and ansi.tdv are not provided simply because > I haven't had time. vkd is a one-instruction link to the container file > disk system in hwassist.c. ps3new is just a branch back to output all > waiting chars at once instead of just one per clock tick - a performance > improvement. Ansi.tdv is just an ugly hack for the tcrt calls - the more > difficult input processing is handled in the ps3.c module of the emulator. > > > WHAT DO I **KNOW** DOES NOT WORK? > > Aside from DIRSEQ most stuff seems to work. LISP and PASCAL may not work > but I know so little about them I'm not certain. > > Format 11 instructions (floating point) have only been working a few days. > They are probably really sick and I just haven't noticed yet. But enjoy > basic until they bite you! > > I also have pretty good reason to think PS.V handling (and 'over/under flow' > in general) is not quite right. What the book says is supposed to happen is > at odds with what diagnostics check for and what known running programs do! > > > HOW TO REPORT A NEW BUG > > Send me an email (mike@otterway.com) telling me what you did, what happened, > and why you don't think that should have happened. For example: "I compiled > and ran xyz.bas and it crashed saying it couldn't open file aaa.bbb, but > aaa.bbb was there like it was supposed to be and this program and file work > on my real AM-100". So far I'm pretty prompt getting back to people who > tell me about problems, hopefully that will continue... > > > SOFTWARE DONATIONS > > Were you a software developer in the AM-100 heydays? Still have a copy of > your pride and joy laying around? Why not let others remember with you! > Let me post a copy for use with the emulator. All donations welcome! > > > CREDITS > > A number of people have helped and/or inspired me to write this thing. > > There's Jim Battle, who's built web pages and emulators for several machines > including the Processor Technology SOL-20 (see > http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html) . We share an interest in > Processor Tech hardware and software and I really admire the way he has > pulled all that arcane stuff together. > > There's Roger Bowler (etal) and the Hercules project (IBM mainframe > emulator, see http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules). I spent a lot of my career > as an OS sysprog, and what that team of people have done is just > magnificant. Many design elements of my emulator come from them - I even > borrowed their use of the Q license! > > There's Harvey, a guy who saved some of my old books for 20+ years in his > garage. Some were manuals for my old AM-100! There's Mike, who still has a > running AM-100, and was good enough to send me a copy of his wd16 manual. > There's Rhett who found me a really clean complete copy of amos. There's > Joe, another guy with a running AM-100 who sent me an assembled copy of the > cpu diagnostic and worked with me to get it to run without a monitor. And > of course there's Alex who has given permission to distribute amos along > with the emulator so more people can enjoy it. > > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Oct 30 09:30:01 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: I can't believe this?!??! References: <200210300506.g9U56t031399@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <000a01c27fda$84fa4ef0$0c00a8c0@starship1> I must be google-ly impaired, I tried all different combo's of kzqsa jumpers, settings, technical and so forth and the closet I found was a cryptic response from the HP/Compaq Vax Wizard which said a lot but told you nothing, thanks Eric, where do you want that Jolt sent? :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 12:06 AM Subject: Re: I can't believe this?!??! > > In all that is the collective geek-dome of classic computers, I find it > > boggling to see that no one has (or wishes to share... you greedy SOB ;-) > > the technical manual and/or jumper settings for the elusive DEC KZQSA Qbus > > to SCSI adapter boards.... come on, I challenge the collective knowledge > > base of the DEC geeks to come up with this mysterious and treasured > > knowledge and share it with the list. The winner gets a free 6 pak of > > JOLT soda for those looooonnnnngggggggg caffeine induced late nights ;-) > > Courtesy of Google (first entry I found): > > There are three sets of jumpers on the KZQSA: > > 1) W1 to W7 select the CSR address; the interrupt vector is programmable, > so there are no jumpers to set it. Since it sounds like your setup is > fairly simple, I'll guess that your CSR is at or near the default > address and list a few corresponding jumper settings ... if the CSR that > CONFIGURE gives you is not below, you might want to post it, so that one > us can verify the correct jumper settings, just to be on the safe side. > > CSR W7 W6 W5 W4 W3 W2 W1 > ------ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > 761300 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 (default) > 761400 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 > 761500 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 > > But generally, you can work out the jumper settings as follows: if W7 is > 0 (not set), the CSR is 76xy00, but it it is set (1), the CSR is 77xy00; > the octal digit "x" is determined by the settings of W6 to W4, and the > digit "y" is determined by W3 to W1 as illustrated by a few examples: > > 760100 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 > 760400 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 > 761000 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 > 764000 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 > 770000 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 > > 2) W9 to W13 determine the memory base address; the default is the > address range 01000000-01377777 for the 128 KB memory on the KZQSA, > for which only W10 is set and the others are not. You need to > arrange for all modules that use Qbus memory space to have unique > address ranges ... but this is normally not such a problem, since > not so many modules use Qbus memory space. To see if it is a problem > in your configuration, issue a SHOW QBUS command from the console > prompt (>>>); at the end of the output (after the scan of IO space), > you will find the Scan of Qbus Memory Space, which shows which > address ranges are in use. If 01000000-01377777 does not overlap > any range currently in use (if any), you have no problem and can > just use the default jumper setting here. > > Otherwise, the address selection jumpers just increase the base > address of the KZQSA's 128 KB memory in steps of 128 KB; i.e., > > address range W13 W12 W11 W10 W9 > ----------------- --- --- --- --- --- > 00000000-00377777 0 0 0 0 0 > 00400000-00777777 0 0 0 0 1 > 01000000-01377777 0 0 0 1 0 (default) > 01400000-01777777 0 0 0 1 1 > ... > 17400000-17777777 1 1 1 1 1 > > Also note that W8 is in the same jumper block as W9-W13; I have no > idea what it does, probably best to leave it alone... > > 3) W14 to W16 set the SCSI ID of the KZQSA; W14 sets the MSB (4) > and W16 the LSB (1). The default is 7, which should be OK for most > purposes. > > > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > From richy2000_nl_2000 at yahoo.co.uk Wed Oct 30 09:32:09 2002 From: richy2000_nl_2000 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Richy=20keis?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: KIM-1 24-hour clock Message-ID: <20021030062935.15433.qmail@web14106.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ross, Do you have the Source of your "KIM-1" clock for me. You told me about your clock, here: http://www.learnmicros.com . I have a KIM-1, but I'm afraid to connect it with power. I only can test it on emulators, so maybe you have it for me... Greetz, Richard, The Netherlands. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From vance at neurotica.com Wed Oct 30 09:34:22 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Dates (again) In-Reply-To: <3DBEF482.5329.DCE052A@localhost> Message-ID: The PS/2 CL57SX was a microchannel laptop (with a microchannel slot in its docking station) and a really nice TFT screen. It cost about $10K new. The first models of ThinkPad were the 300, 500, and 700. The CL57SX was actually the last PS/2 noteboook. Before it were the N51SX, N45SL, N41SC, L40SX, P75, and the P70. The P75 and P70 were lunchbox-style. There was also the weird little PS/2e. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Oooh, what catches my eye is the PS/2 CL57 SX color. I wonder if that is a > L-T version of the 8557, announce date: June, 1991. I wonder if it also has a > SCSI port. Never heard of this model before. Damn, I want one. > > Lawrence > > > +AD4- I'm looking for the model name/number and date of > > +AD4- introduction of the first IBM ThinkPad, > > > > The laptop sales literature I have says: > > Thinkpad > > 1992-10-05: Thinkpad name announced > > models: 700,700C,700T,300 > > pre-Thinkpad > > 1992-07-22: PS/note N45SL > > 1992-03-24: PS/2 CL57 SX color announced > > 1991-02: L40SX > > > > John A. > > PS/note. The successor to +ACI-PS/Boat+ACI-. > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Oct 30 09:36:36 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: <001e01c27fd1$bd439310$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: > I vote for somewhere in CT this year, it will give those in the Southeast an > easier drive up (seems like a lot of people in Virginia and PA would attend) > and be more of a median point for all. I vote for Washington, DC. The above mentioned people could attend plus the Florida contingent might come up. (Not to mention it's where I live :-) ) From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Oct 30 09:38:49 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: OK, I think I've stepped in it... (MICOM 2000) Message-ID: I just got the UPS tracking info, this thing weighs 100 pounds!? I thought I was being gouged on the shipping, but now I see I wasn't. It just doesn't look that big in the pictures. Anyway, when these two crates show up on my doorstep, my wife is going to have a cow! Space is tight here and I've just managed to get my collection as it stands under control. So, I'm going to need to move this beast fast. Is there anyone in the Washington, DC area that wants to take it off my hands for what I have invested in it ($30 cost + $50 shipping)? Email quick, UPS says it arrives on Friday (11/1). Thanks, Bill From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 30 09:49:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Dates (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021030155118.11084.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > There was also the weird little PS/2e. Hey! They aren't wierd - they are an ISA machine (one slot) with built-in video, a 2.5" hard disk, laptop-floppy and a max of 16MB of RAM. IBM shipped them in three flavors based on what they stuffed into the lone ISA slot - Ethernet, TokenRing and PCMCIA. I have a couple of them. I put Linux (RedHat 5.2) on an 800MB disk and stuck 4 3Com 3C589s in it as a router for several low-volume DMZs (test LAN for (previous) work to pseudo-simulate the production network environment for product development). Worked fine, presuming your definition of fine includes sub-33MHz 486-grade processors and a textual OS. :-) I'd love to get the LCD screen for it, but that costs several times what the CPU does. ISTR mine were $15 or so at the Uni Surplus two years ago (minus the PCMCIA cards which I gathered from a couple of sources - thanks again, Bob!). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Wed Oct 30 09:52:00 2002 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm still hoping for a VCF-midwest! -Bob > > I vote for somewhere in CT this year, it will give those in the >Southeast an > > easier drive up (seems like a lot of people in Virginia and PA >would attend) > > and be more of a median point for all. > >I vote for Washington, DC. The above mentioned people could attend >plus the Florida contingent might come up. (Not to mention it's >where I live :-) ) bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 30 09:54:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021030155621.44360.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Sudbrink wrote: > I vote for Washington, DC. The above mentioned people could attend > plus the Florida contingent might come up. (Not to mention it's > where I live :-) ) I'd rather it be in DC/VA/MD than in CT/NY, but that's because it's half the trip from Ohio. I can make it to Silver Spring, MD (visiting friends) in well under 8 hours on the road. CT would be more like 14. So far, I've missed *all* the VCFs due to either location or bad timing. :-( Maybe VFCe next year... haven't been to Germany in nearly 4 years... time to go back. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Wed Oct 30 09:55:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors Message-ID: <20021030155908.ODVF7225.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Hi -- Having doctored up one faulty drive and replaced the other, my TRS80 Model 3 is now ready for action. It fires right up and will boot several different Model 3 OSes. The documentation I received with the unit contains a lot of detail, but it does not describe all of the i/o connectors on the rear of the unit. The ones which I can identify from the docs are a female DIN connector for tape i/o and a female DB25 for serial i/o. The docs also describe the parallel port as a 34-pin card-edge connector (which I suppose needs a Tandy-specific cable to attach to a printer), but the problem is that there are *two* of these 34-pin connectors on the rear of the system, as well as a 50-pin card-edge connector. Can anyone familiar with this system help me out with details regarding these connectors? TIA -- Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 30 09:56:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Bob Brown wrote: > I'm still hoping for a VCF-midwest! > > -Bob > I'll second that, although a VCF 'near' New Jersey *might* be close enough for me to attend... -- "The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted BASIC." -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From dan at ekoan.com Wed Oct 30 09:57:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: References: <001e01c27fd1$bd439310$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021030105444.04a11020@enigma> At 10:11 AM 10/30/02 -0500, you wrote: > > I vote for somewhere in CT this year, it will give those in the > Southeast an > > easier drive up (seems like a lot of people in Virginia and PA would > attend) > > and be more of a median point for all. > >I vote for Washington, DC. The above mentioned people could attend >plus the Florida contingent might come up. (Not to mention it's >where I live :-) ) I vote for DC as well, or at least somewhere close by. It would also give the attendees a chance to visit the NSA's Cryptologic Museum, which does have some interesting old computers as well. You can read more about the museum at http://www.nsa.gov/museum/ . Cheers, Dan From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 30 10:03:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 In-Reply-To: <3DBFAE9E.4080004@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Brian Chase wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > > > >>I keep looking on Ebay for AIX media. I have a 7013-530 Powerstation. > >>What's the best version for me to pick up? Will I be able to install it > >>with out an official IBM license code/number/etc? > > > > > > At /least/ AIX 4.3.3 should run alright on it. I'm not sure about the > > newer AIX 5L releases; they may have dropped support for the older > > systems. IBM's You don't need a license code; just the media and a > > CD-ROM drive from which to boot it. > > > > -brian. > > Is 4.3.3 the last release of AIX 4? Thats the latest release I've seen > on Ebay. I was hoping I would here that 4.3.2, or 4.3.1 were "best" for > my machine.... they're cheaper :-) I'm sure either will work just fine, missing a few patches that you might even be able to download from IBM. > I don't think 5 has Microchannel support, or so I think I heard. Yes it does! I'm using it right now on a POWERserver 370 (7012-370) at work an it runs just fine. (That's a 62,5MHz POWER proc, 64bit memory bus, and MCA for those who don't know.) I'm also fairly certain it'd work on my 580 (7013-580) if I were to 'borrow' a copy to bring home. But of course, I'd never steal software from Purdue. ;-) One more note, I'm not using the graphics console any machine, I'm using a serial console, and for anything important I telnet in to the machine. I'm not sure how slow the graphics are, but I'm sure that I don't want to find out. Also, I have not tried with less than 128MB of RAM in a machine - but I'm sure it'd probably run in less (maybe as little as 32MB) but I'm sure it'll get slower... If you need any help with AIX things feel free to email me, I'm now involved (somewhat) with some sysadmining of AIX boxen at work, so I might be able to help with OT things (or talk to someone who has been for a while). Pat -- "The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted BASIC." -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From dittman at dittman.net Wed Oct 30 10:19:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: I can't believe this?!??! In-Reply-To: from "Curt vendel" at Oct 30, 2002 01:06:42 AM Message-ID: <200210301614.g9UGEx232618@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I must be google-ly impaired, I tried all different combo's of kzqsa > jumpers, settings, technical and so forth and the closet I found was a > cryptic response from the HP/Compaq Vax Wizard which said a lot but told you > nothing, thanks Eric, where do you want that Jolt sent? :-) No charge, Curt. :-) -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 10:50:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, John Lawson wrote: > But anyway, a Pretty Good Time was had by all, though there was not much > working Big Iron on display - partially understandable when the Logistics > of hauling and loading/unloading and setting up larger systems is taken > into account. And I have the scars and bruises to attest to that. John certainly deserves Honorable Mention for taking the considerable time and considerable trouble to haul an entire PDP 11/44 rack nearly three hundred miles (one way) to be the only one exhibiting anything that large. He also deserves a lot of thanks from me and others for acting as surrgoate transport when it turns out that a couple of us had too much to bring home and lent the use of the empty space in his U-Haul. Of course, Hans, as always, over did it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 10:53:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021029112230.01d87948@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > > Nobody got it! O well.... > > I noticed the scope in your rack, but I quite reading the scope thread > long ago... Yeah, me too. What WAS the significance of the scope? (I guess I should have asked John to elucidate when he told me what it was there for.) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 10:57:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > Someplace in my office I have a old program by Laser Systems that > reads the rom and makes a "clean" commented disassembly listing of > it. Randy Hyde wrote it as a kind of exercise for his disassembler, > so its pretty complete as I remember with proper variable names etc. > Apple didn't let it stay long on the market though. What kind of "comments" can it make on the disassembly?? ; loads the Accumulator with $#00 ; jumps to location $0800 ? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Wed Oct 30 11:04:01 2002 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:28 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16D63@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> D.C. Sounds like a good idea. There are a also a number of other attractions in the area, such as the Smithsonian and various historical sites, etc. (Of course, the fact that it's local to me has had no impact on my opinion ;-) -al- > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Veeneman [mailto:dan@ekoan.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 10:58 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] > > > At 10:11 AM 10/30/02 -0500, you wrote: > > > I vote for somewhere in CT this year, it will give those in the > > Southeast an > > > easier drive up (seems like a lot of people in Virginia > and PA would > > attend) > > > and be more of a median point for all. > > > >I vote for Washington, DC. The above mentioned people could attend > >plus the Florida contingent might come up. (Not to mention it's > >where I live :-) ) > > I vote for DC as well, or at least somewhere close by. It > would also give > the attendees a chance to visit the NSA's Cryptologic Museum, which > does have some interesting old computers as well. You can read more > about the museum at http://www.nsa.gov/museum/ . > > > Cheers, > > Dan > From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 11:05:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype (Re: VCF5: Nobody got it..!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > You know, after seeing all these pictures, and hearing about it, I > do hope VCF East ends up in the New England area. I wonder if having a > booth with my VaxStation 3100 m38, DEC 3000/400, Mac SE/30 (with split > keyboard!) and maybe the Sun Ultra1E, all playing nice together, would > look out of place? Well, if you want it to be in New England then you must SPEAK UP! So many people came to me after VCF East 1.0 saying "if I had known about it I would have come!" A lot of this was my fault, but it's also your fault if you don't sign up for the mailing list and let me know a) that you're interested and b) where you live so I can make a good decision as to where to hold the event so as to maximize attendance. http://www.vintage.org/maillist.php This is a very small budget event. There are not tens of thousands of dollars in it. It runs on a comparitively shoe string budget and I am lucky to break even most years (if you combine all the VCF nets from 1.0 on up I am still in the hole on it). I can't do the kind of advertising that big computer shows do, especially if I don't get any financial sponsorhsip (which has been lacking the last two years). If you know someone or company that wants to throw a few bucks my way for this, let me know. The locations I am considering for VCF East 2.0 are Providence, RI, Boston proper, or New York City. Basically, somewhere with a large population center, that is central to a greater population center, and where a lot of vintage computer enthusiasts would easily find their way to. The best thing you can do at this point is SPREAD THE WORD. If you know people who would be interested in attending a VCF East, tell them to go to the VCF website and sign up on the mailing list. http://www.vintage.org/maillist.php Tell them to leave specific feedback that states something to the effect of "I am really looking forward to VCF East!" Now go to it! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 11:05:48 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: <3344.4.20.168.211.1035922427.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > I presume by "disassembly listing of it" you are referring to Integer > BASIC. There's no need to disassemble Programmer's Aid #1 as the source > listings are in the manual. > > There are some errata/patches to Programmer's Aid #1. I don't have the > printed information, and I'm not sure whether the patches were applied > to the version in the INTBASIC file. Was there ever a Programmer's Aid #2 (or 3? or 0?) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 11:09:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021029154923.01eb3880@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > My limited experience (from taking my Imlac to VCF East 1.0) is that it is > not the unique single machine that wins the price, but the machine(s) which > the largest number of people attending have had some experience. If this is > true, the two are pretty much mutually exclusive by nature. I've also found > that more people seem to have had experience with the more recent "personal > computers" than have with older minis, et al. Nothing is so vulgar as the people ;) I'll definitely have to bite the bullet and have one less hour of sleep preparing before the VCF to have more exhibit categories to award some of the more interesting exhibits at the VCF that attendees "just don't get" ;) Normally we have around 13 categories. This year, with the number of exhibits we had, that many categories would have been overkill, so I pared it down to one to make it simpler for myself. Mea culpa, disparaged exhibitors. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 11:11:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > If Tony Duell had made his way across the pond this year - *he* would > > That's never likely to happen. Heck, I didn't even get to VCF-Europe... The question is: would you come to VCF UK? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Oct 30 11:14:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF% Scope put it to rest... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > > > > Nobody got it! O well.... > > > > I noticed the scope in your rack, but I quite reading the scope thread > > long ago... > > Yeah, me too. What WAS the significance of the scope? > > (I guess I should have asked John to elucidate when he told me what it was > there for.) There was a long-running, marginally off-topic thread here about a month ago, on the subject of Tektronix scopes, and especially the rack-mount versions. It persisted for quite some time and all of us old-gear-sluts(tm) weighed in on the subject. Having gotten a Tek RM503 recently, it was suggested by a Listmember (who, since the Joke flopped, will not be name) that it MIGHT BE FUNNY if we mounted it in the rack with the 11/44. I repeat: MIGHT BE FUNNY Apparently, it was not - even Tony D sniffed at the concept. Oh Well... That's all that was involved: I (we) thought that it might be a subtle in-joke to make an obvious physical reference to a ListThread. But it was not to be.... Bottom_Line: It was a JOKE. The JOKE flopped. I'm SORRY. ;} Now - if someone wants to donate an AA11 DAC cardset (or whatever the model is) I'd be happy to make a nice vector display out of the 503... hint hint hint Cheers John From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 11:23:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Need a Corvus Mirror Message-ID: Does anyone have a Corvus Mirror? I need it for a project. Please contact me directly if you do. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 11:27:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: I want an old tape drive motor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > Given this list is a pretty diverse bunch of surplus prowlers, I am > wondering if anybody knows where I can find a couple super low > inertia motors like some older tape drives and other very rapid > positioning equipment used. They are easy to spot once you have seen > one, imagine a super large sams club sized tuna can (say 4" tall x > 7" dia) with a single portion fruit can on top and shafts sticking > out the top and bottom. A couple big knobs for brushes etc. and if > you touch the shaft it turns like nothing is there, very low inertia. > Here is a picture, and you can even see the two in the middle still > have some sort of tape drive capstan thing I think. > Contact the ACCRC. They get old tapes drives in once in a while that nobody wants to claim and the unit simply gets scrapped. However, the motors are usually culled because once in a while someone comes in looking for one for this project or another. The last guy that came in looking for one was building a submersible hydrogen vehicle (something like that). Another guy a while back was building windmills for electricity generation. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Oct 30 11:32:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF% Scope put it to rest... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021030175817.GA88045@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 12:16:23PM -0500: > Apparently, it was not - even Tony D sniffed at the concept. Oh Well... Perhaps because you should have rack-mounted a logical analyzer instead... > Bottom_Line: It was a JOKE. The JOKE flopped. I'm SORRY. Game over. Play again? :-) > Now - if someone wants to donate an AA11 DAC cardset (or whatever the > model is) I'd be happy to make a nice vector display out of the 503... > hint hint hint And, with an A/D converter board installed in the PDP-11, use it as an oscilloscope? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 30 11:39:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: FS: hard sectored floppy disks, E&L Z-80 SBC, slide rules, CBM disk drive manual -- More! Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021030124443.0db72ba2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Some ending today so check now! From marvin at rain.org Wed Oct 30 11:43:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF% Scope put it to rest... References: Message-ID: <3DC01A92.12CEF3BB@rain.org> John Lawson wrote: > > Having gotten a Tek RM503 recently, it was suggested by a Listmember > (who, since the Joke flopped, will not be name) that it MIGHT BE FUNNY if > we mounted it in the rack with the 11/44. > > I repeat: MIGHT BE FUNNY > > Apparently, it was not - even Tony D sniffed at the concept. Oh Well... > That's all that was involved: I (we) thought that it might be a subtle > in-joke to make an obvious physical reference to a ListThread. > > But it was not to be.... I have never been accused of not having a sick sense of humor, and I do think it was funny. And all the more so because so many of the listmembers attending VCF didn't catch the joke!!! YMMV :). From hansp at aconit.org Wed Oct 30 11:51:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: CDI Miniterm - was Dates (again) References: <3DBE83E8.2090201@aconit.org> <001401c27f5c$78498c80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3DC01C89.2010601@aconit.org> I broke my own, self imposed. rules about not asking more than one question per email ;-) Anyways, thanks for the Thinkpad info, that was very useful. Now, anyone up for spilling the beans on the Miniterm? -- hbp From cb at mythtech.net Wed Oct 30 11:53:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] Message-ID: >I'll second that, although a VCF 'near' New Jersey *might* be close >enough for me to attend... Being that everything in NJ is within driving distance (as opposed to RI where everything is within walking distance)... I would most likely attend if it were held within about 4 hours drive from Northern NJ (so DC or similar to the south, Mid to West PA to the west, and Boston or abouts to the North.... not much of a swimmer, so going east is out of the question for me). But I would attend purely as a spectator/buyer (I'm assuming that is allowed... you aren't forced to expo things to get in right?) -chris From hansp at aconit.org Wed Oct 30 11:54:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FD09@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <3DAED5B6.E976E4CD@rain.org> Message-ID: <3DC01D4E.80600@aconit.org> Marvin Johnston wrote: > Outstanding!!! My only suggestion would be to make the point that the > documentation/software/etc. is as important as the hardware. Too often, > the only thing left is the hardware ... and that just isn't enough :). I would say MORE important! Without docs, a machine's value is seriously devalued: trying to fix or even run it would not be easy. But docs without a machine could be used to build an emulator. And anyway they take up less space ;-) Of course software is necessary in either case. -- hbp From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 30 11:57:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors In-Reply-To: <20021030155908.ODVF7225.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > The ones which I can identify from the docs are a female DIN connector for > tape i/o and a female DB25 for serial i/o. The docs also describe the > parallel port as a 34-pin card-edge connector (which I suppose needs a > Tandy-specific cable to attach to a printer), IIRC, #26-1401 It is basically straight through, and can be made by crimping a card-edge connector on one end of ribbon cable, and a "centronics" amphenol connector on the other. Sorry, but I don't remember which direction to offset the cable (for the 34 v 36) > but the problem is that there > are *two* of these 34-pin connectors on the rear of the system, The other 34 pin is for external floppies. It should be possible to identify which 34 is which by proximity to the disk controller. > as well as > a 50-pin card-edge connector. "expansion bus" On the model 1 it was 40 pin. Did they change to 50 on the 3? > Can anyone familiar with this system help me out with details regarding > these connectors? I'm going from memory. It's been more than 5 years since I TRS-80'd. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 12:02:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF% Scope put it to rest... In-Reply-To: <3DC01A92.12CEF3BB@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > I have never been accused of not having a sick sense of humor, and I do > think it was funny. And all the more so because so many of the > listmembers attending VCF didn't catch the joke!!! YMMV :). The joke's on them! HAHA! (and me too I guess ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 12:04:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > But I would attend purely as a spectator/buyer (I'm assuming that is > allowed... you aren't forced to expo things to get in right?) No, but in your case I'll make an exception :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 30 12:10:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF% Scope put it to rest... In-Reply-To: <20021030175817.GA88045@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > Bottom_Line: It was a JOKE. The JOKE flopped. I'm SORRY. There is nothing wrong with making a visual homage to a mailing list thread! I almost took along a box of casters. But, like bad puns, those who "get it" won't show much of a reaction. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 30 12:21:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Destroying a SX-64.. :-( Message-ID: Yeah, everyone knows you're supposed to put a blown, alcohol-injected 392cid Chrysler hemi in a T-bucket, not some chevy garbage... LOL Will J _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 30 12:31:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: [OT] paper on Retro ? Message-ID: However, documentation/softwareless old computers make wonderful doorstops. Actually, I gave a couple gutted 5360s away to a friend who made them into a workbench, I had stripped the good stuff from them already. Waste not, want not. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 30 12:49:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Drives? (was: RE: Tales of VCF 5.0?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > That sounds about right. I think I remember reading somewhere on the > drives in the 210S that they were at least 1GB in capacity. > > The current that they may draw still worries me too... If you're talking about the ones in the pictures of Tony Cole's booth,... he bought my amprobe ammeter. (so he may also be worried about their current draw) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Oct 30 12:55:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021029112230.01d87948@ubanproductions.com> <007701c27fd2$c93b94a0$633acd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3DC02B29.6030605@jetnet.ab.ca> Wayne M. Smith wrote: >>> Nobody got it! O well.... >> >>I noticed the scope in your rack, but I quite reading the scope thread >>long ago... >> > > Well I saw it there, wondered about it, but didn't want to display my ignorance > by asking. I think noticed it too, but seeing the scope there I belived it was a handy place for it if a lot of work was needed to keep the old machines on top shape. From at258 at osfn.org Wed Oct 30 13:36:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype (Re: VCF5: Nobody got it..!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The nice thing about Providence is that the 2 computer museums are nearby and the Mark I is only an hour away. There is good public transporattion also, and in the East, a lot of people like that as an option. On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > > > You know, after seeing all these pictures, and hearing about it, I > > do hope VCF East ends up in the New England area. I wonder if having a > > booth with my VaxStation 3100 m38, DEC 3000/400, Mac SE/30 (with split > > keyboard!) and maybe the Sun Ultra1E, all playing nice together, would > > look out of place? > > Well, if you want it to be in New England then you must SPEAK UP! So many > people came to me after VCF East 1.0 saying "if I had known about it I > would have come!" A lot of this was my fault, but it's also your fault if > you don't sign up for the mailing list and let me know a) that you're > interested and b) where you live so I can make a good decision as to where > to hold the event so as to maximize attendance. > > http://www.vintage.org/maillist.php > > This is a very small budget event. There are not tens of thousands of > dollars in it. It runs on a comparitively shoe string budget and I am > lucky to break even most years (if you combine all the VCF nets from 1.0 > on up I am still in the hole on it). I can't do the kind of advertising > that big computer shows do, especially if I don't get any financial > sponsorhsip (which has been lacking the last two years). If you know > someone or company that wants to throw a few bucks my way for this, let me > know. > > The locations I am considering for VCF East 2.0 are Providence, RI, Boston > proper, or New York City. Basically, somewhere with a large population > center, that is central to a greater population center, and where a lot of > vintage computer enthusiasts would easily find their way to. > > The best thing you can do at this point is SPREAD THE WORD. If you know > people who would be interested in attending a VCF East, tell them to go to > the VCF website and sign up on the mailing list. > > http://www.vintage.org/maillist.php > > Tell them to leave specific feedback that states something to the effect > of "I am really looking forward to VCF East!" > > Now go to it! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Oct 30 13:58:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 In-Reply-To: <3DBFAE9E.4080004@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Is 4.3.3 the last release of AIX 4? Thats the latest release I've seen > on Ebay. I was hoping I would here that 4.3.2, or 4.3.1 were "best" for > my machine.... they're cheaper :-) AIX 4.3.3 is is the last release of AIX 4 that I see mentioned on IBM's website. Either 4.3.2 or 4.3.1 should be fine; I was running 4.3.2 on my 64MB RS/6000 41T about three years ago without problems. I'd imagine that 4.3.2 and 4.3.1 are cheaper because everyone dumped their copies once they got their 4.3.3 CDs. > I don't think 5 has Microchannel support, or so I think I heard. -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Oct 30 14:33:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype (Re: VCF5: Nobody got it..!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > The nice thing about Providence is that the 2 computer museums are nearby > and the Mark I is only an hour away. There is good public transporattion > also, and in the East, a lot of people like that as an option. I'd sort of favor Boston. There are a number of interesting museums in Boston, including some at MIT. The public transportation system there is great, and the Attleboro/Stoughton Line commuter train runs from Boston to Providence, RI. When I visited the area during the summer, it was only $4.25 each way from Boston to Providence. So you've got access to the museums in Providence, you've got access to MIT (and the geeks within), and then there are all those ex-DECies. I failed to make it up to VCF 5.0 this year because this past weekend was spent doing scheduled maintenance on my non-vintage computers at work. Why is it that these state of the art systems give me more hassles than my classic gear? -brian. From ceby2 at csc.com Wed Oct 30 15:00:00 2002 From: ceby2 at csc.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 Message-ID: > ...Yes it does! I'm using it right now on a POWERserver 370 (7012-370) at > work an it runs just fine. (That's a 62,5MHz POWER proc, 64bit memory > bus, and MCA for those who don't know.) ... Let me just echo those sentiments. I'm currently running AIX5L on a 7013-591 at the office and a 7012-390 at home. Both of these machines are similar in spec to the 370 and 580 Pat mentioned. Mine have 128MB and 256MB RAM respectively. I can also add that I've had full graphic support on both. In fact the only graphics nightmare I've had with backward compatibility is with my 860(RS6000 Laptop). It depends on your card of course, but the graphics on my systems are just fine. Odd to say, but in most things non-CPU bound, these are the fastest machines I have at the moment, including the PII linux boxes. The IO in these boxes is fab'. > If you need any help with AIX things feel free to email me, I'm now > involved (somewhat) with some sysadmining of AIX boxen at work, so I might > be able to help with OT things (or talk to someone who has been for a > while).... I'll also echo Pat's offer of help. I'm trained, current and even somewhat proficient with both the recent gear and the vintage stuff. I'm not a sysadmin anymore, though -- I consult on performance engineering. Colin Eby ceby2@csc.com From wonko at 4amlunch.net Wed Oct 30 15:12:01 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 In-Reply-To: <3DBFAE9E.4080004@internet1.net>; from fernande@internet1.net on Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 05:04:14AM -0500 References: <3DBFAE9E.4080004@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20021030161333.T1728947@marvin.4amlunch.net> On Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 05:04:14AM -0500, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I don't think 5 has Microchannel support, or so I think I heard. oh yes it does!! MCA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. i'm sure AIX will continue to support it for some time to come. ;) -brian (who thinks MCA is WAY better than PCI, thankyouverymuch) -- I loved Rush Limbaugh till I figured out he wasn't joking From wonko at 4amlunch.net Wed Oct 30 15:14:00 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 In-Reply-To: ; from ceby2@csc.com on Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 04:01:09PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20021030161417.U1728947@marvin.4amlunch.net> On Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 04:01:09PM -0500, Colin Eby wrote: > > Let me just echo those sentiments. I'm currently running AIX5L on a > 7013-591 at the office and a 7012-390 at home. Both of these machines are did you upgrade from 4.3.3 to 5L on the 591? i've currently got 4.3.3 on my 591 and was wondering if it was worth upgrading to 5L or not. -brian -- i'm trying to use a windows shell function to move a directory... and it reports that it failed with the error "the operation completed successfully" From wonko at 4amlunch.net Wed Oct 30 15:14:53 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: I can't believe this?!??! In-Reply-To: <200210300520.g9U5K6R31434@narnia.int.dittman.net>; from dittman@dittman.net on Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 11:20:06PM -0600 References: <200210300520.g9U5K6R31434@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20021030161446.V1728947@marvin.4amlunch.net> On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 11:20:06PM -0600, Eric Dittman wrote: > BTW, I've found my VAX 4000 reports errors and will not boot > if the KZQSA is not properly terminated. i've also found this to be true. -brian -- Rich. R-I-C-H. No 'B', No 'T'. -Rich From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Oct 30 15:20:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! References: Message-ID: <3DC04C63.D388A4C0@gifford.co.uk> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > That's never likely to happen. Heck, I didn't even get to VCF-Europe... > > The question is: would you come to VCF UK? Well, I definately would come to a VCF in the UK! Anybody else? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Oct 30 15:20:51 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? References: Message-ID: <3DC04E1B.2000804@tiac.net> I'd be really interested in learning more about this! Also, I've got lots of parts to get your PDS-1 in running order. Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > >>A long vector 'kludge'? >> >>Is this installed into a PDS-1, or a PDS-1D? >> > >A PDS-1. Apparently it is a homebrew version of the long vector option. >It has been a couple years (at least) since I last looked at it or >discussed it with someone so I may be confusing myself. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Oct 30 15:27:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: MAC's from N.A. > Africa? In-Reply-To: References: <3DBEF482.6895.DCE0552@localhost> Message-ID: <3DBFF9A6.21727.11CA4144@localhost> I was really referring to the teenagers, altho it also extends into the twenties for many. And I congratulate you for your good fortune. Lawrence > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > And of course the younger generation (as always) views anything that > > isn't on the "bleeding edge" of anything, as unworthy or useless. > > Well, not always. I started deliberately collecting older systems when > I was in college--around 1994. My girlfriend, who is younger still, has > nice start on a collection of her own; included in it are some NeXTs, a > Mac SE, a Televideo terminal, and an Apple IIc. She even spent one > summer aiding in the cleaning of the Memory Test Computer from Project > Whirlwind at the MIT Museum: > > > I have the best girlfriend EVER! > > -brian. > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Oct 30 15:29:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6DA@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <3DC0504E.6010309@tiac.net> Rodents plus New Mexico red clay = a high probability of haunta virus being present. Hopefully your using a good dust mask while working on this find. Be careful. John Willis wrote: >I've removed (as of tonight) all the parts out of the chassis, >documenting >where everything goes. I cleaned the chassis very carefully. Once the >card cage/ >backplane was out, it was obvious that these parts were in beautiful >condition, >if not more than a little bit dusty. A couple of bent pins in back were >easily >corrected, and the entire assembly sits waiting to be reinstalled in the >chassis. > >The TU58, unfortunately, did not fare quite as well, as the mice had >chosen >it as their nesting place. After finally managing to get the tape that >was in it >loosened up, it came out coated with mouse fur and mouse droppings etc. >The rollers are entirely wound up in this stuff. It sits in a box >awaiting later >attempts at cleaning. I hold out little hope. > >The power supply, which seems to consist of a controller and two >actual PSUs, looks solid from the outside, and also what I can see of >the inside. >It appears to have large battery packs in the bottom of it. These, >certainly, >would be dead after all this time. Are they important? Maybe theyre not >even >batteries... > >The H7112A looks solid, but again, I haven't explored inside. >Everything in the system >has a light coating of New Mexico red clay dust. > >The blower/motor assembly from the bottom of the cabinet awaits >cleaning. >The blower itself turns freely, which I'm taking as a good sign. > >The cards are pristine, L0002, L0003, L0004, L0008, L0007, L0016. There >are 8 memory boards (M8750), several bus grant cards, a card labeled >"M9313" >and one labeled "M9202." I also found in the bottom of the system an >M9014 Unibus to H854 adapter that wasn't plugged in. I also have a >DELUA. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Zane H. Healy >Sent: Tue 10/29/2002 9:35 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Cc: >Subject: Re: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 > >>I just a couple of days ago picked up a VAX 11/750. This machine has >> > >Cool! > >>been stored >>in a damp shed for ten years or so, has had mice living in it, and the >>usual assortment of spiders, etc. >> > >Oh, SHUDDER! It sounds like you're in for an interesting restoration >process. > >>to the control panel and TU58 tape drive. I'm in the process of >> >cleaning > >>all the components, >>but am in search of some advice on this process, especially the power >>supply. How long >>should I let the power supply dry out from its prior damp condition, >> >and > >>what should >>I do to bring it up for testing without risking damage to other >>components? I wish to >>do this methodically and carefully. >> > >Unless this is a powersupply that needs a load on it when you power it >on >(anyone know?), I'd recommend having it totally disconnected when you >power >it on. I'd also recommend you have someone else standing by with a C02 >Fire >Extinguisher for safety. > >As for how long it needs to dry before powering up, I'm not really sure, >if >you've got it in a warm, heated location, I'd say a week or two should >be >plenty (probably doesn't need that much but it's better to ere on the >side >of caution). > >Something to do in the mean time is to look for corrosion and to get >everything good and clean. I'm most concerned about your powersupply >and >backplane. Also take a look at the rollers in your TU58. While the >following is for a PDP-8, you might find it useful. >http://pdp-8.org/revive.htm Definitly read up on what Aaron has to say >about Backplanes. > > Zane > > From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 30 15:35:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Repairing devices Message-ID: I know this is a bit OT, becuase it's not really computer related, but the hardware is at least 23 years old, so that's my excuse for posting to the list... I've got a 35mW HeNe Laser + Power supply that I picked up today for next to nothing. It seems to be having some problems - the laser (somtimes) blinks a few times when I first turn it on, and then stops. From the sound of the power supply it's either a loose connection (which I doubt after opening it up and taking a good look around) or there's a problem with the power supply. Now, I've never really worked on a HV power supply before, and I'm trying to be careful when I play with things. First off, does anyone have a general idea of what sized dummy load ("resisitor") I should try haning off of the HV output to properly load it? I noticed that the laser tube has 3x27kohm resistors in series, would a couple watt approx 81kohm resistor be a good idea? Also, does anyone have an idea for a failure mode to look for? I've got an O'scope, dmm, and various other tools at my disposal, but no 'authentic' HV test/mesurement gear. I'm just looking for general guidelines. Thanks! Pat -- "The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted BASIC." -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 30 15:59:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Repairing devices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've got a 35mW HeNe Laser + Power supply that I picked up today for > next to nothing. It seems to be having some problems - the laser > (somtimes) blinks a few times when I first turn it on, and then stops. > From the sound of the power supply it's either a loose connection (which > I doubt after opening it up and taking a good look around) or there's a > problem with the power supply. > I'm just looking for general guidelines. You might want to have a look at Sam's Laser FAQ, and you might also want to have a look at switchmode power supply section of the the Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ. Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lohwr/ Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/ -Toth From dave at naffnet.org.uk Wed Oct 30 16:02:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! References: <3DC04C63.D388A4C0@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3DC0576B.E46014BC@naffnet.org.uk> John Honniball wrote: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > That's never likely to happen. Heck, I didn't even get to VCF-Europe... > > > > The question is: would you come to VCF UK? > > Well, I definately would come to a VCF in the UK! Anybody else? > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk I would give it very serious consideration... Dave. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 30 16:04:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Repairing devices Message-ID: <200210302206.OAA03832@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Patrick Finnegan" > >I know this is a bit OT, becuase it's not really computer related, but the >hardware is at least 23 years old, so that's my excuse for posting to the >list... > >I've got a 35mW HeNe Laser + Power supply that I picked up today for next >to nothing. It seems to be having some problems - the laser (somtimes) >blinks a few times when I first turn it on, and then stops. From the >sound of the power supply it's either a loose connection (which I doubt >after opening it up and taking a good look around) or there's a problem >with the power supply. > >Now, I've never really worked on a HV power supply before, and I'm trying >to be careful when I play with things. First off, does anyone have a >general idea of what sized dummy load ("resisitor") I should try haning >off of the HV output to properly load it? I noticed that the laser tube >has 3x27kohm resistors in series, would a couple watt approx 81kohm >resistor be a good idea? > >Also, does anyone have an idea for a failure mode to look for? I've got >an O'scope, dmm, and various other tools at my disposal, but no >'authentic' HV test/mesurement gear. Hi I know this doesn't make sense at first but it is most likely that the failure is in the HeNe tube and not the power supply. The general failure starts with the lasing pulsing at slower and slower rates until it stops working. The problem is caused by the He leaking out of the tube. I know you'd say, how can that happen when inside the tube is a partial vacuum. Well, it has to do with partial pressures. The partial pressure of He is lower out side of the tube than inside, so it leaks out. It is also related to the slipperiness of He. It leaks through everything, including glass. Try another tube that is known to be good. Dwight > >I'm just looking for general guidelines. > >Thanks! > >Pat >-- >"The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the >performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark >like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted >BASIC." > -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) >http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > > From brian at quarterbyte.com Wed Oct 30 16:07:00 2002 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Manuals for IBM 2520 Card Reader? Message-ID: <3DBFE7DF.17592.4D9B94E@localhost> Hi -- does anyone have any documentation for the IBM 2520 card reader? I know it's a long shot. (I checked Al Kossow's archive and don't see it there). Any leads would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel _| _| _| Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 _| _| _| Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Oct 30 16:20:00 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Repairing devices References: Message-ID: <001b01c28062$cd7bfb00$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Hi Patrick, Have you got any idea how long the device has been inactive ? Does the PSU contain any electrolyte caps in the "lower voltage" stages? They may depolarise if not used frequently Such caps have to be repolarized very gently! (see previous threads) If the PSU contains a HV-Cap-Diode cascade you could check the diodes. Checking the HV-caps will be more of a problem without some decent equipment. Does it have some kind of overload or safety protection circuit that kicks in to soon ? Could the the HE-NE-tube have a micro crack? I once had one with such a crack and it operated only for half a minute. Then I heard some strang sissing sound and the show was over. The small increase in temp due to the device operating was enough to open the crack just a tiny little bit more and the "vacume" was gone... Finito. Upon carefull inspection I later found the crack. If you hopefully get it working again but don't be surprised if the power is somewhat less than expected. The "mirrors" at both ends of the tube will have been "worn out" if the laser has been operated intensively. I've had (another) HE-laser with that problem. You could still do funny things with it in the dark but it produced less than a tenth the light of a .5mW Diode Laser It later turned out to have been used continuesly as part of a fog-visibilitly measuringdevice for over more than 5 years........... Regards, Sipke de Wal --------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx --------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 10:38 PM Subject: Repairing devices > I know this is a bit OT, becuase it's not really computer related, but the > hardware is at least 23 years old, so that's my excuse for posting to the > list... > > I've got a 35mW HeNe Laser + Power supply that I picked up today for next > to nothing. It seems to be having some problems - the laser (somtimes) > blinks a few times when I first turn it on, and then stops. From the > sound of the power supply it's either a loose connection (which I doubt > after opening it up and taking a good look around) or there's a problem > with the power supply. > > Now, I've never really worked on a HV power supply before, and I'm trying > to be careful when I play with things. First off, does anyone have a > general idea of what sized dummy load ("resisitor") I should try haning > off of the HV output to properly load it? I noticed that the laser tube > has 3x27kohm resistors in series, would a couple watt approx 81kohm > resistor be a good idea? > > Also, does anyone have an idea for a failure mode to look for? I've got > an O'scope, dmm, and various other tools at my disposal, but no > 'authentic' HV test/mesurement gear. > > I'm just looking for general guidelines. > > Thanks! > > Pat > -- > "The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the > performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark > like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted > BASIC." > -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Oct 30 16:23:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Repairing devices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From your description, it is possible that the helium has migrated out of the tube over time, and now will no longer sustain lasing at the voltages the PS is putting out. Helium can leak through anything (it is used as the definitive leak detector) and usually when a HeNe laser gets cranky, it's becuase all the He has snuck out, leaving the poor Ne to try and do the work of two atoms... c'est la vie.... Cheers John From red at bears.org Wed Oct 30 16:32:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 In-Reply-To: <20021030161333.T1728947@marvin.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Brian Hechinger wrote: > oh yes it does!! > > MCA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. i'm sure AIX will continue to support > it for some time to come. ;) 5.2 will support only CHRP models, of which none are MCA. RSPC models will not be supported either. Some of those, like the F40, are PCI. > -brian (who thinks MCA is WAY better than PCI, thankyouverymuch) You're entitled to your opinion, even though it's wrong. (; I won't argue that MCA is still pretty cool. ok r. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 30 17:18:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: Repairing devices In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "Repairing devices" (Oct 30, 16:38) References: Message-ID: <10210302320.ZM15172@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 30, 16:38, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've got a 35mW HeNe Laser + Power supply that I picked up today for next > to nothing. It seems to be having some problems - the laser (somtimes) > blinks a few times when I first turn it on, and then stops. As a few others have said, most common cause of an HeNe laser failing to "lase" is loss of the helium. I, too, found that out the hard way. Interestingly, the more it's used, the less likely that is to happen in a given time (at least, so said the notes with the last HeNe tube I bought). > Now, I've never really worked on a HV power supply before, and I'm trying > to be careful when I play with things. First off, does anyone have a > general idea of what sized dummy load ("resisitor") I should try haning > off of the HV output to properly load it? I noticed that the laser tube > has 3x27kohm resistors in series, would a couple watt approx 81kohm > resistor be a good idea? Probably not. Although not always obvious from the specs, most resistors are only rated to some hundreds of volts, maybe a thousand or two. That's why your laser has three in series instead of one bigger one. > Also, does anyone have an idea for a failure mode to look for? I've got > an O'scope, dmm, and various other tools at my disposal, but no > 'authentic' HV test/mesurement gear. You want a proper insulated HV probe for a start... you need to be able to measure kilovolts if you want to check the power supply. Check out Sam's laser FAQ at www.repairfaq.org -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 30 17:20:27 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: John Honniball "Re: VCF5: Nobody got it..!" (Oct 30, 21:17) References: <3DC04C63.D388A4C0@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <10210302306.ZM15159@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 30, 21:17, John Honniball wrote: > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > That's never likely to happen. Heck, I didn't even get to VCF-Europe... > > > > The question is: would you come to VCF UK? > > Well, I definately would come to a VCF in the UK! Anybody else? Certainly. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dlormand at aztec.asu.edu Wed Oct 30 17:31:01 2002 From: dlormand at aztec.asu.edu (DAVID L. ORMAND) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:29 2005 Subject: 360K drives Message-ID: <200210302332.QAA01035@aztec2.asu.edu> I'm trying to help some guys outfit TI-99/4As with 360K drives. A year or so ago, they were still available from some of the surplus dealers I know about, but they seem to have disappeared. Does anyone have a line on supplies of 360K drives? The only ones I find via web search are $25, which seems a bit much for a once-ubiquitous drive that is now a little obsolete. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Oct 30 17:53:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:30 2005 Subject: 360K drives References: <200210302332.QAA01035@aztec2.asu.edu> Message-ID: <3DC07E87.510D1D10@ccp.com> "DAVID L. ORMAND" wrote: > > I'm trying to help some guys outfit TI-99/4As with 360K > drives. A year or so ago, they were still available from > some of the surplus dealers I know about, but they seem > to have disappeared. > > Does anyone have a line on supplies of 360K drives? The > only ones I find via web search are $25, which seems a > bit much for a once-ubiquitous drive that is now a little > obsolete. yeah, they've been lined up at the landfills of the world I think. I was looking a year ago and just gave up. Even the 1.2 meg HD drives are giveaway items. Planned obselecence. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph,MOz From jingber at ix.netcom.com Wed Oct 30 18:14:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:30 2005 Subject: NeXT Dimension Question Message-ID: <1036023309.5165.6.camel@supermicro> From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Wed Oct 30 18:19:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: 360K drives Message-ID: <20021031002231.ZUZL3311.imf25bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: DAVID L. ORMAND > I'm trying to help some guys outfit TI-99/4As with 360K > drives. A year or so ago, they were still available from > some of the surplus dealers I know about, but they seem > to have disappeared. > > Does anyone have a line on supplies of 360K drives? The > only ones I find via web search are $25, which seems a > bit much for a once-ubiquitous drive that is now a little > obsolete. I've been picking them up on eBay, often in never-been-used condition, for $10 - $12 including shipping. I've also found some in junk systems at thrift stores. They are not as easy to find (at least in my neck of the woods) as they were a couple of years ago, but the high-density "1.2 MB" drives seem to be everywhere (including my shop -- I've got almost 50 of them here!). Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Wed Oct 30 18:21:22 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors Message-ID: <20021031002239.ZVCY3311.imf25bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > IIRC, #26-1401 It is basically straight through, and can be made by > crimping a card-edge connector on one end of ribbon cable, and a > "centronics" amphenol connector on the other. Sorry, but I don't remember > which direction to offset the cable (for the 34 v 36) Thanks, Fred. The docs give the pinouts on the card-edge, so a cable should be no problem. > The other 34 pin is for external floppies. It should be possible to > identify which 34 is which by proximity to the disk controller. Piece of cake -- thanks again. > "expansion bus" On the model 1 it was 40 pin. Did they change to 50 on > the 3? I don't know -- I wonder why this is not shown in the docs? Later -- Glen 0/0 From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Wed Oct 30 18:32:00 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: 360K drives In-Reply-To: <3DC07E87.510D1D10@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3DC00A43.4222.CD5164A@localhost> From: Gary Hildebrand To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 360K drives Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:51:19 -0600 > "DAVID L. ORMAND" wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone have a line on supplies of 360K drives? The > > only ones I find via web search are $25, which seems a > > bit much for a once-ubiquitous drive that is now a little > > obsolete. > > yeah, they've been lined up at the landfills of the world I think. I > was looking a year ago and just gave up. Even the 1.2 meg HD drives > are giveaway items. Planned obselecence. > I know I have at least 1 360K drive that isn't being used, possibly 2. I thought one more was going to become available, until I discovered last night that Crysta's (IBM 5155) drive controller can't seem to handle 1.2M drives. If you are interested, perhaps we can wheel and deal a bit (I'm in sell mode at this time instead of trading, as I'm still struggling to refill the coffers.) It will be real easy for me to test the drive right now, as I am currently building a 286-based classic gaming system (what I call a Jackrabbit Model II); so it would be a real simple matter for me to disconnect the 1.2M drive and hook up the 360K to make sure it works. If yer interested, send an email my way and we can work something out. -- Scarletdown From archer at topnow.com Wed Oct 30 18:49:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: KIM-1 24-hour clock References: <20021030062935.15433.qmail@web14106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DC07E64.7246ABF3@topnow.com> Richy keis wrote: > > Hi Ross, > > Do you have the Source of your "KIM-1" clock for me. > You told me about your clock, here: > http://www.learnmicros.com . I have a KIM-1, but I'm > afraid to connect it with power. I only can test it on > emulators, so maybe you have it for me... > > Greetz, > > Richard, The Netherlands. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com Hello again, :) The source file is attached. As far as powering up your KIM-1, you must first be sure you have a high-quality regulated power supply with 5 volts output. If you wish to also use the cassette interface, you will need 12 volts output also. I use a standard PC power supply, because it is regulated. The only warning with this is hook up something (an extra floppy, CD-ROM drive, or other device) to the supply to ensure that some current is being drawn at all times. I use an old 2x CD-ROM drive for this. The other advantage of this is you can measure everything on your connectors BEFORE applying power to your KIM. :) You'll also need a 44 pin edge card connector. They can be quite difficult to find. I have a few left, so I could mail you one or two if you like. The alternative is soldering directly to your KIM, which is not a good idea for such a rare system unless it's already in poor shape. The KIM-1 user manual (see http://www.ping.be/kim-1__6502/ ) has the drawing of how to apply power. If you have any further questions, let me know. I'll be happy to help. -- Ross -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kimclock.asm Type: image/x-xbitmap Size: 2377 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021030/c85db34e/kimclock.xbm From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 30 19:12:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors In-Reply-To: <20021031002239.ZVCY3311.imf25bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > IIRC, #26-1401 It is basically straight through, and can be made by > > crimping a card-edge connector on one end of ribbon cable, and a > > "centronics" amphenol connector on the other. Sorry, but I don't > remember > > which direction to offset the cable (for the 34 v 36) > Thanks, Fred. The docs give the pinouts on the card-edge, so a cable > should be no problem. A trivial gotcha if you're not paying careful attention: The numbering of the connectors of the cardedge is even numbers on one side and odd on the other. Thus 1 is opposits 2, 33 is opposite 34. But the numbering on the "centronics amphenol" ("blue ribbon"?) is 1-18 on one side and 19-36 on the other side. > > The other 34 pin is for external floppies. It should be possible to > > identify which 34 is which by proximity to the disk controller. > Piece of cake -- thanks again. I don't remember whether the external floppies, which are the third and fourth floppies, are expected to be jumpered as drive 0 and drive 1, or as drive 2 and drive 3. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 19:14:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: <3DC0576B.E46014BC@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk wrote: > John Honniball wrote: > > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > That's never likely to happen. Heck, I didn't even get to VCF-Europe... > > > > > > The question is: would you come to VCF UK? > > > > Well, I definately would come to a VCF in the UK! Anybody else? > > > > -- > > John Honniball > > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > I would give it very serious consideration... Not good enough. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 19:14:56 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <3DC04E1B.2000804@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > I'd be really interested in learning more about this! Here is a page about the Imlac I have (it was given to me by Doug Salot, who developed this page): http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/imlac/ It doesn't say anything about the long-vector option, although I could've swore he did (maybe it's there and I just didn't see it in my quick refresh perusal). You can see the board in the upper-right corner of this picture (or maybe it's the middle right?): http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/imlac/imlac6.jpg > Also, I've got lots of parts to get your PDS-1 in running order. Cool! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 30 19:27:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? Message-ID: <200210310129.RAA03949@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jim Battle" >At 06:09 PM 10/28/02 -0800, dwight elvey wrote: >>Hi >> Actually, I was bummed. ... >> I had a Poly-88 setup but I think only one in 10 noticed >>and even then, I think only 2 in those ten knew what it was. > >I spotted it, and I knew what it was. But how could you tell >that? Probably other people were the same. > >> Of course, my display was all about tape recovery and not >>the Poly-88. I don't think, maybe, 5 people all together >>realized that. > >That, I didn't spot. I noticed the waveforms on the wall, but amidst the >din (auditory and visual) it didn't register. I wish I had noticed, >though, since it is an area I want to spend some time working on one of >these years. Rather than letting it be lost to the moment, is there any >chance of you writing up your work and putting it online somewhere (even >posting it to this list and letting it get archived would work). > >I've read a half dozen very terse summaries of emulators and such that do >this, but most work only on really clean tapes. They simply do some DC >correction, perhaps a bit of filtering, and then time zero crossings and >decode from there. Have you done something more sophisticated than >this? Some of the Sol tapes I've looked at are way too corrupted for such >a simple technique to work. > >There are a lot of communication theory ideas that could be applied to the >problem directly; in addition, the file format is going to have some known >structure that could be used to help train the receiver and disambiguate >some cases. > >I'd be interested to hear more. >----- >Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > Hi Jim I will try to put something together. I did have an outline posted at the exhibit but hoped many would ask questions ( quite a few did but only about 1/3 of those knew what a Poly-88 was ). First, I didn't use any of the high tech methods. I know a reasonable amount about DSP, having taken a couple of courses and tinkered some as well. There is little in DSP that will fix a dropout caused by folded tapes. DSP can be used for such problems as high frequency rolloff or print-thru. These problems are often over stated and are not the most common problems. Understanding how the data is recorded and how your machine reads these back can be a large help. One also needs an alternate method of reading the tape because the canned software usually won't continue after an error. You also need to know the method used to validate the replay. If you are lucky, they used a CRC or ECC. In most cases, it was a simple check sum. Recovery is more about bringing all the known stuff together and recreating the missing parts. As long as the recorded data is something like a program or text the problem can often be solved. If it is something like raw data, ( strings of meaningless numbers ) the chances are poor. One of the first things to look for is duplicate tapes. Not all errors happen at the same place and same time. Like solving a mystery, it is all about putting all of the pieces together and not just a single part. It is easier then one would think but does take some time to develop the tools needed to get all the information. I don't have a web site to publish such information but I suspect someone will provide it. Anyway, I apologize for not having a bigger title. Even though Sellam gave us plenty of extra time, I was still doing a lot of last minute preparations. Dwight From owad at applefritter.com Wed Oct 30 19:29:00 2002 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: KIM-1 24-hour clock In-Reply-To: <3DC07E64.7246ABF3@topnow.com> References: <3DC07E64.7246ABF3@topnow.com> Message-ID: <20021031011102.17582@mail.lafayette.edu> >You'll also need a 44 pin edge card connector. >They can be quite difficult to find. I think Douglas sells these. 44 pins of .025" square, .620" length 44-156C-WW $5.54 44 eyelet pins of .225" length, .050" width 44-156C-Y $4.53 44 pin DIP, pins are .156" length, .043" width 44-156C-D $4.90 I'm not sure which it would be, though. What's an eyelet pin? Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From Qstieee at aol.com Wed Oct 30 19:38:57 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] Message-ID: <766C2C01.784B0C57.001A265C@aol.com> Connecticut sounds good to me too. I am around Hartford and I presume David A. Woyciesjes who is often on this list is around New Haven. If someone wants advice on venues ask me by direct e-mail. From jrice54 at charter.net Wed Oct 30 19:40:36 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: NeXT Dimension Question References: <1036023309.5165.6.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <3DC08B60.2000809@charter.net> I've never seen a PSU serial cutoff, just the Cube serial itself. I've looked at all of my cubes (I have 4 here at the moment, 2 are Dimensions) but they all have been changed to the later type with floppy, hard drive and optical drive mounting holes. I'm running all of mine dual heads without soundboxes, so it's never been an issue for me. James Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: >>From what I understand, there is a range of PSUs which fall in a certain >set of serial numbers which are incompatible with a ND color board. >Does anyone know which specific PSUs are capable of powering the ND >board correctly? > >The only information I'm able to find is the serial #s of the compatible >systems themselves, not the serial #s of the PSU. > >Can anyone provide some clarifican on this subject? > >>From http://www.vamp.org/NeXT/old-nd-articles.txt: > >If your customer has a NeXTcube with a serial number lower than >AAK0016370, the system will only run with both monochrome display and a >color display connected. Should a customer want to stop using the >MegaPixel monochrome display and replace > it with a NeXT Sound Box to use only a color display, the customer must >replace the power supply in the NeXTcube by purchasing the Power Supply >Upgrade Kit. > > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From archer at topnow.com Wed Oct 30 19:43:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: KIM-1 24-hour clock References: <3DC07E64.7246ABF3@topnow.com> <20021031011102.17582@mail.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: <3DC08B29.B7812F90@topnow.com> Tom Owad wrote: > > >You'll also need a 44 pin edge card connector. > >They can be quite difficult to find. > > I think Douglas sells these. > > > > 44 pins of .025" square, .620" length > 44-156C-WW > $5.54 > > 44 eyelet pins of .225" length, .050" width > 44-156C-Y > $4.53 > > 44 pin DIP, pins are .156" length, .043" width > 44-156C-D > $4.90 > > I'm not sure which it would be, though. What's an eyelet pin? > > Tom > > Applefritter > www.applefritter.com Oops, didn't know I was replying to the whole list. :) At any rate, the "eyelet" pins are the ones that look sort of like an elongated donut. You stick the wire through the center and solder. The other connector looks like it might expect wire-wrap. I'd suppose the eyelet connectors would be better for soldering on single wires, cassette cables, etc. Glad to see you can still get those connectors. I had to buy something like 20 at once to get them. -- Ross From foo at siconic.com Wed Oct 30 20:02:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <200210310129.RAA03949@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Anyway, I apologize for not having a bigger title. Even though Sellam > gave us plenty of extra time, I was still doing a lot of last minute > preparations. Don't worry. Even though I gave myself the same amount of extra time, I found myself in the same situation ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jingber at ix.netcom.com Wed Oct 30 20:08:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: NeXT Dimension Question In-Reply-To: <3DC08B60.2000809@charter.net> References: <1036023309.5165.6.camel@supermicro> <3DC08B60.2000809@charter.net> Message-ID: <1036030151.5167.18.camel@supermicro> I have two NeXT monitors, one color and one mono which are running off the 040 Cube with the ND. I'd like to be able to use the mono 17" on my 030 and run the color 17" off the 040 ND Cube with a sound box alone. I'm not _entirely_ sure that it's an issue with PSU or with the board itself, but I suspect the PSU may be the culprit. I remember reading somewhere that early Cubes required some type of dummy load to run headless. I think this is the same issue as with the ND/soundbox setup. Jeff On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 20:46, James Rice wrote: > I've never seen a PSU serial cutoff, just the Cube serial itself. > I've looked at all of my cubes (I have 4 here at the moment, 2 are > Dimensions) but they all have been changed to the later type with > floppy, hard drive and optical drive mounting holes. I'm running all of > mine dual heads without soundboxes, so it's never been an issue for me. > > James > > Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > > >>From what I understand, there is a range of PSUs which fall in a certain > >set of serial numbers which are incompatible with a ND color board. > >Does anyone know which specific PSUs are capable of powering the ND > >board correctly? > > > >The only information I'm able to find is the serial #s of the compatible > >systems themselves, not the serial #s of the PSU. > > > >Can anyone provide some clarifican on this subject? > > > >>From http://www.vamp.org/NeXT/old-nd-articles.txt: > > > >If your customer has a NeXTcube with a serial number lower than > >AAK0016370, the system will only run with both monochrome display and a > >color display connected. Should a customer want to stop using the > >MegaPixel monochrome display and replace > > it with a NeXT Sound Box to use only a color display, the customer must > >replace the power supply in the NeXTcube by purchasing the Power Supply > >Upgrade Kit. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html > > > From archer at topnow.com Wed Oct 30 20:10:01 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: Tales of VCF 5.0? References: <200210290209.SAA02796@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3DC0918F.75C7546D@topnow.com> "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > Hi > Actually, I was bummed. I gave away about 1/2 lbs of candy > corn and hardly got any votes. Many walked by and looked > at my monitor and said " Ah, a Apple III." I finally had > to put a piece of paper over the label so people would > look a little closer. The monitor was just the first thing > I could find at the top of the pile that lit up. > I had a Poly-88 setup but I think only one in 10 noticed > and even then, I think only 2 in those ten knew what it was. > Of course, my display was all about tape recovery and not > the Poly-88. I don't think, maybe, 5 people all together > realized that. Wish I had been there. Sounds like one of them "bag o' tricks" sorts of operations you learn to do by solving lots of puzzles. Unless I'm mistaken, a lot of the early tape formats didn't include much if any error correction data. So you could filter, equalize levels, and play DSP games till the vampires come home and still if the data's missing there (dropout, tape splice, overwritten burst), you're going to have to sleuth out what the context around the missing data is and make educated guesses about what should have been there. Which is a job for a clever human. Sounds like we humans may be useful (aside from being a blood supply for Dracul or breeding stock for werewolves...) for a while longer, if only for recovering old data. :) -- Ross > It was partly my fault. My title was a little small and > I spent most of my time fighting with Larry over table space > instead of talking to people ( Larry was cheating with Tootsie > Pops! ). I had no cool graphics either. > Next year I'll have better candy and a bigger title! > Still, I had a great time. Thanks Sellam!!! > Dwight > > >From: "Sellam Ismail" > > > >On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > >> Anyone out there want to enlighten us poor slobs stuck on the wrong side > >> of the continent? Anyone putting any pictures on the web? > > > >It was a wholly awesome event. The most well-run VCF in the history of > >the VCF (all talks on time and recorded and video taped). Nearly a > >perfect exhibit (one problem with a circuit breaker on Sunday that was > >promptly fixed) with Kraftwerk playing in the background, not to mention > >the excellent exhibits themselves. We had broadband Internet access > >in the Exhibit Hall plus a WAP. Plenty of good stuff in the vendor > >area (much stuff for which I had to quell my impulse to buy, though I > >did get a lot of keen donations). Lots of great literature at the > >Propaganda Zone. Tours to the Computer History Museum, the California Air > >and Space Center (which were only a short walk away) and an excursion to > >the DigiBarn (http://www.digibarn.com). And the attendance was way > >higher than expected (right up around 300). > > > >In my opinion it was one of the best VCF's yet. Next year it will be even > >bigger and better. > > > >I will now turn my sights to VCF East 2.0. > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 30 20:20:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6D9@deathstar.arielnet.com> from "John Willis" at Oct 29, 2 07:11:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1840 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021030/b8131fce/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 30 20:20:58 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Oct 30, 2 09:59:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 842 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021030/6c927bea/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 30 20:21:52 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: MAC's from N.A. > Africa? In-Reply-To: <200210300459.VAA06686@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Oct 29, 2 08:59:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 481 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021030/1a6e0b7a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 30 20:22:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: I want an old tape drive motor In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021030080307.007734ec@pop1.epm.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Oct 30, 2 08:03:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 765 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021030/d80d4816/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 30 20:23:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: The 5155 Challenge... In-Reply-To: <3DBF6837.19905.A5BFEA6@localhost> from "Scarletdown" at Oct 30, 2 05:03:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2030 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021030/25a8214a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 30 20:24:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors In-Reply-To: <20021030155908.ODVF7225.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Oct 30, 2 10:56:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1697 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021030/38e77c2e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 30 20:25:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Oct 30, 2 09:12:21 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 691 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021030/d031a139/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 30 20:26:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: Repairing devices In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Oct 30, 2 04:38:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1635 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021030/4295b3ef/attachment.ksh From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Oct 30 20:33:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: KIM-1 Connectors Message-ID: www.digikey.com search for 305-044-500-202 1 @ $ 3.41 10 @ $30.25 Picture of connector: http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/EDAC/Web%20Photo/305-044-500-202.jpg -Glen >From: Ross Archer >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: KIM-1 24-hour clock >Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:45:13 -0800 > >Tom Owad wrote: > > > > >You'll also need a 44 pin edge card connector. > > >They can be quite difficult to find. > > > > I think Douglas sells these. > > > > > > > > 44 pins of .025" square, .620" length > > 44-156C-WW > > $5.54 > > > > 44 eyelet pins of .225" length, .050" width > > 44-156C-Y > > $4.53 > > > > 44 pin DIP, pins are .156" length, .043" width > > 44-156C-D > > $4.90 > > > > I'm not sure which it would be, though. What's an eyelet pin? > > > > Tom > > > > Applefritter > > www.applefritter.com > >Oops, didn't know I was replying to the whole list. :) > >At any rate, the "eyelet" pins are the ones that look sort >of like an elongated donut. You stick the wire through the >center and solder. The other connector looks like it might >expect wire-wrap. > >I'd suppose the eyelet connectors would be better for >soldering on single wires, cassette cables, etc. > >Glad to see you can still get those connectors. >I had to buy something like 20 at once to get them. >-- Ross _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Wed Oct 30 23:01:01 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: The 5155 Challenge... In-Reply-To: References: <3DBF6837.19905.A5BFEA6@localhost> from "Scarletdown" at Oct 30, 2 05:03:51 am Message-ID: <3DC04946.7854.DCB43A8@localhost> > Be careful. It's a real IBM PC/XT motherboard in there) Slot 8 (which > you call slot 7) is special, I can go ahead and just leave the Parallel and Joystick ports in that space then and still consider the challenge "fulfilled", since that space _is_ being used. And the only reason I called it Slot 7 is just because I have a thing for starting my numbering at 0. :) -- Scarletdown From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Oct 30 23:23:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: In search of qbus WCS... Message-ID: <200210310524.AAA75071363@shell.TheWorld.com> Does anyone have a WCS (writeable control store) board? If someone does, I need a dump of the contents of the microms of the LSI chipset... I'll be happy to write the program to do the dump... (If you also have the EIS/FIS chip, so much the better) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 31 00:53:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: In search of qbus WCS... In-Reply-To: <200210310524.AAA75071363@shell.TheWorld.com> References: <200210310524.AAA75071363@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <32933.64.169.63.74.1036047317.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Does anyone have a WCS (writeable control store) board? Yes. > If someone does, I need a dump of the contents of the > microms of the LSI chipset... I'll be happy to write > the program to do the dump... In other words, you'll write a microprogram to dump the microms? Normal PDP-11 code can't do it, even with a WCS board installed. The WCS board only allows read/write access to the WCS memory; it provides no means of accessing the contents of the MICROMs. The RAM Address Register is the low 10 bits of 177540, and only provides addressing for the WCS RAM. The WCS memory can only be accessed over the Qbus while the WCS is disabled (bit 10 of 177540 set to 0). And while the WCS is disabled, the data path to the microinstruction bus (MIB) is completely disabled. I'm not completely convinced that it is even possible to write a microprogram to dump the MICROMs. There's no obvious instruction to do it, nor is there a suitable data path in the diagrams. The only obvious way I know of to read the MICROMs is to remove them from their socket and wire them up to a microcontroller programmed to act like the control chip but access the locations sequentially and log the MIB lines. > (If you also have the EIS/FIS chip, so much the better) Got that too. You're probably already aware that the EIS/FIS source code is supplied with the WCS software package. Which I haven't got a copy of :-( Anyhow, if you do in fact have a viable means of reading the MICROM contents, I'll be glad to help. The *really* tricky part will be reading the translation array, which is mask-programmed in the control chip. The translation array can cause microbranches without an explicit branch microinstruction, so the full control flow of the microcode will not be entirely obvious from just a MICROM dump. I've considered trying to write a microcode-level simulator for the LSI-11, but the translation array seems like it will be fairly difficult to reverse-engineer, short of decapping the control chip, taking a photomicrograph, and spending a heck of a lot of time studying the layout. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 31 00:54:25 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: In search of qbus WCS... In-Reply-To: <200210310524.AAA75071363@shell.TheWorld.com> References: <200210310524.AAA75071363@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <32933.64.169.63.74.1036047317.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Does anyone have a WCS (writeable control store) board? Yes. > If someone does, I need a dump of the contents of the > microms of the LSI chipset... I'll be happy to write > the program to do the dump... In other words, you'll write a microprogram to dump the microms? Normal PDP-11 code can't do it, even with a WCS board installed. The WCS board only allows read/write access to the WCS memory; it provides no means of accessing the contents of the MICROMs. The RAM Address Register is the low 10 bits of 177540, and only provides addressing for the WCS RAM. The WCS memory can only be accessed over the Qbus while the WCS is disabled (bit 10 of 177540 set to 0). And while the WCS is disabled, the data path to the microinstruction bus (MIB) is completely disabled. I'm not completely convinced that it is even possible to write a microprogram to dump the MICROMs. There's no obvious instruction to do it, nor is there a suitable data path in the diagrams. The only obvious way I know of to read the MICROMs is to remove them from their socket and wire them up to a microcontroller programmed to act like the control chip but access the locations sequentially and log the MIB lines. > (If you also have the EIS/FIS chip, so much the better) Got that too. You're probably already aware that the EIS/FIS source code is supplied with the WCS software package. Which I haven't got a copy of :-( Anyhow, if you do in fact have a viable means of reading the MICROM contents, I'll be glad to help. The *really* tricky part will be reading the translation array, which is mask-programmed in the control chip. The translation array can cause microbranches without an explicit branch microinstruction, so the full control flow of the microcode will not be entirely obvious from just a MICROM dump. I've considered trying to write a microcode-level simulator for the LSI-11, but the translation array seems like it will be fairly difficult to reverse-engineer, short of decapping the control chip, taking a photomicrograph, and spending a heck of a lot of time studying the layout. Eric From dave at naffnet.org.uk Thu Oct 31 01:05:01 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! References: Message-ID: <3DC0D684.5A4FED8C@naffnet.org.uk> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk wrote: > > > John Honniball wrote: > > > > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > That's never likely to happen. Heck, I didn't even get to VCF-Europe... > > > > > > > > The question is: would you come to VCF UK? > > > > > > Well, I definately would come to a VCF in the UK! Anybody else? > > > > > > -- > > > John Honniball > > > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > > I would give it very serious consideration... > > Not good enough. OK, then, you tell me when and where, and I can give a better answer, but not before I have more information. Cheers, Dave. From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Oct 31 01:20:00 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:32 2005 Subject: VCF-UK was RE: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c280ae$25c30d80$4d4d2c0a@atx> > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > If Tony Duell had made his way across the pond this year - > *he* would > > > > That's never likely to happen. Heck, I didn't even get to VCF-Europe... > > The question is: would you come to VCF UK? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival I would try to get to one ... but it would depend where and when [London, Birmingham, Cambridge, Bletchley Park would be OK locations for me Penzance, Anglesey, Glasgow, Aberdeen would distinctly discourage. Manchester might be a special case - a long journey, but the chance of capitalising on probably the most influencial home of computing should not be discounted.] Andy From msspcva at yahoo.com Thu Oct 31 01:27:00 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: Microchannel Architecture (was: Best version of AIX for my RS6000) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021031072901.33629.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Hey, I was told many years ago by a DEC guy at a symposium that IBM ripped off the Pro bus when they designed the Microchannel Architecture (MCA), and had to actually pay DEC for patent infringement. Was that true? -- Frank --- "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Brian Hechinger wrote: > > ... > > -brian (who thinks MCA is WAY better than PCI, > thankyouverymuch) > > You're entitled to your opinion, even though it's > wrong. (; > > I won't argue that MCA is still pretty cool. > > ok > r. > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From deano at rattie.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 31 02:20:00 2002 From: deano at rattie.demon.co.uk (Dean Calver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! References: <3DC04C63.D388A4C0@gifford.co.uk> <10210302306.ZM15159@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <003c01c280b6$96866af0$2000a8c0@thunderbird> > > > > That's never likely to happen. Heck, I didn't even get to > VCF-Europe... > > > > > > The question is: would you come to VCF UK? > > > > Well, I definately would come to a VCF in the UK! Anybody else? > > Certainly. I'd come to the VCF in the UK. Deano From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Oct 31 03:35:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: Apple II Programmer's Aid ROM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > >> Someplace in my office I have a old program by Laser Systems that >> reads the rom and makes a "clean" commented disassembly listing of >> it. Randy Hyde wrote it as a kind of exercise for his disassembler, >> so its pretty complete as I remember with proper variable names etc. >> Apple didn't let it stay long on the market though. > >What kind of "comments" can it make on the disassembly?? > >; loads the Accumulator with $#00 >; jumps to location $0800 Randy Hyde liked tools, and LISA, the Laser Interactive Symbolic Assembler, was his favorite to mess with, so when he added disassembly to it, he made it so that you could quickly go back and forth between source code and binary files, with all the comments etc preserved. How I think it worked was to have 3 files, Source, binary, and essentially all the text you need to go from binary back to source. Over a LONG period of time Randy made his own version of the ROM source files, and made them as accurate as he could using the same subroutine names and variables as Apple used internally (that he could find out). Randy's version of the source files may well have been better and more accurately documented than what Apple had internally. He knew he could never get away with selling a full commented etc listing of the Roms, but figured selling a program that would disassemble them on the owners own machine and print out the results with comments etc. would be OK. Apple didn't see it that way. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 31 06:42:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: Repairing devices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021030221505.0f4f9a44@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Pat, I'm assuming that your laser is helium-neon laser. If so, then if it's 23 years old it almost certainly has what they refer to as a soft seal between the electrodes and glass tube. The problem with the soft sealed lasers is that the helium atoms are small enough that they slowly leak out of the seal. When they do, the mixture ratio changes and the ignition and operating voltage goes up until the laser will no longer operates. That's what it sounds like is happening with your laser. Your's sounds like it's it border line in that the PSU firing voltage can make it fire but the operating voltage isn't high enough to keep it operating. Further you can't just use a resistor as a dummy load. The laser tube is similar to neon and floresent lights in that it has a negative resistance. That is it has a certain amount of resistance until it fires and then the resistance decreases dramaticly. You have to use a ballast with such devices or else the current will increase drasticly and almost instantly burn out the device. The ignition voltage will be on the order of 20,000 volts but the operating voltage will be roughly 12,000 to 14,000 volts. Be careful using a scope around these things. It probably isn't made to handle nearly the kind of voltages involved in the laser. You need a good high voltage probe for checking these things. You can use one made for TV repair. They're fairly easy to find and are reasonably priced. If you send me the brand and model tube I may be able to tell you if it's a soft sealed tube and other details. Joe At 04:38 PM 10/30/02 -0500, you wrote: >I know this is a bit OT, becuase it's not really computer related, but the >hardware is at least 23 years old, so that's my excuse for posting to the >list... > >I've got a 35mW HeNe Laser + Power supply that I picked up today for next >to nothing. It seems to be having some problems - the laser (somtimes) >blinks a few times when I first turn it on, and then stops. From the >sound of the power supply it's either a loose connection (which I doubt >after opening it up and taking a good look around) or there's a problem >with the power supply. > >Now, I've never really worked on a HV power supply before, and I'm trying >to be careful when I play with things. First off, does anyone have a >general idea of what sized dummy load ("resisitor") I should try haning >off of the HV output to properly load it? I noticed that the laser tube >has 3x27kohm resistors in series, would a couple watt approx 81kohm >resistor be a good idea? > >Also, does anyone have an idea for a failure mode to look for? I've got >an O'scope, dmm, and various other tools at my disposal, but no >'authentic' HV test/mesurement gear. > >I'm just looking for general guidelines. > >Thanks! > >Pat >-- >"The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the >performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark >like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted >BASIC." > -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) >http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 31 06:43:46 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: 360K drives In-Reply-To: <200210302332.QAA01035@aztec2.asu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021030221921.0f4f960c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Check out the charity and thift stores in your area. You should be able to find plenty of old PCs that contain 360K drives. You might also look for any scrap dealers or metal recyclers in your area that tear down old PCs. Joe At 04:32 PM 10/30/02 -0700, you wrote: > > >I'm trying to help some guys outfit TI-99/4As with 360K >drives. A year or so ago, they were still available from >some of the surplus dealers I know about, but they seem >to have disappeared. > >Does anyone have a line on supplies of 360K drives? The >only ones I find via web search are $25, which seems a >bit much for a once-ubiquitous drive that is now a little >obsolete. > From jss at subatomix.com Thu Oct 31 07:06:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <150191470069.20021031070741@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, Bob Brown wrote: > I'm still hoping for a VCF-midwest! I'd like to see one of those too someday. And if we ever have one, well, I know of ClassicCmpers in Kansas, Missouri, and Texas, so Oklahoma (my location) seems a natural choice. :-) Maybe I could convince David Boren to give us some cheap convention space at the University of Oklahoma. I would exhibit. -- Jeffrey Sharp From ceby2 at csc.com Thu Oct 31 07:38:00 2002 From: ceby2 at csc.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 Message-ID: Brian -- > did you upgrade from 4.3.3 to 5L on the 591? i've currently got 4.3.3 > on my 591 and was wondering if it was worth upgrading to 5L or not. Yes and no. I started with 4.3.3, but when I upgraded, I did a build from scratch. For most uses the upgrade isn't that worthwhile. The GUI tools run even slower than they do in 4.3.3. And there's no great differentiation in software compatibility. The real bonus is linux compatibility libraries. I don't compile much on the AIX machines, so I'm less concerned. Mine get used as administrative workstations...and...er... and as a mainframe. The 591 has the P390 card. It's my sandbox for OS390, something I don't know a lot about but have a consuming curiousity for. The real reason I keep them current is to keep me current. -Colin From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Oct 31 07:39:27 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: <150191470069.20021031070741@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, Bob Brown wrote: > > I'm still hoping for a VCF-midwest! > > I'd like to see one of those too someday. > > And if we ever have one, well, I know of ClassicCmpers in Kansas, Missouri, > and Texas, so Oklahoma (my location) seems a natural choice. :-) Maybe I > could convince David Boren to give us some cheap convention space at the > University of Oklahoma. I would exhibit. And I could probably present the same type of service here at Purdue (thanks to being an officer of a student orginization)... -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Oct 31 07:53:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: In search of qbus WCS... References: <200210310524.AAA75071363@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3DC13641.FD1C5E0C@compsys.to> >Megan wrote: > Does anyone have a WCS (writeable control store) board? > > If someone does, I need a dump of the contents of the > microms of the LSI chipset... I'll be happy to write > the program to do the dump... > > (If you also have the EIS/FIS chip, so much the better) Jerome Fine replies: I probably do have both the dual and quad 11/03 CPU boards. Do they have the WCS? I seem to remember that the 11/44 also has the WCS? But since you did not mention which CPU modules have the WCS, it might help others who do have a WCS CPU. I think one board has all 5 chips. I suspect that means it has the EIS/FIP chip? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Oct 31 08:33:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: In search of qbus WCS... References: <200210310524.AAA75071363@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <200210311434.JAA73227203@shell.TheWorld.com> Jerome, the WCS is a separate option which plugs into one of the sockets normally occupied by a MICROM. The only other -11 that I know of which had WCS was the 11/60. The specific option of which I speak is the KUV11-AA, a quad-high qbus board which attaches to an 11/03 or 11/2. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From sloboyko at yahoo.com Thu Oct 31 08:38:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: I want an old tape drive motor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021031143946.32576.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, that system worked very well. The same technology was used in Diablo Hytype II printwheel and carriage motors. I once repaired these, and their Qume clones; The Qumes had optical encoders that would get dirty, fail and were very difficult to clean without breaking the encoder glass. The Diablo's would work fine in very dirty environments. --- Tony Duell wrote: > > So you want to build a contrabass? I have never > heard one... > > but I have always been skeptical about its ability > to put out HiFi. > > The reason is that people use DC servomotors with > *brushes*, and > > believe, the behavior of these things at low > speeds is very nasty > > in terms of nonlinearity: static friction, > nonlinear torque(i,theta); > > It never fails to amaze me that the head positioner > in a Diablo Model 30 > hard drive (aka DEC RK02, RK03) is a > permanent-magnet DC motor with > brushes. It drives the heads via a rack and pinion > mechanism. On top of > the motor spindle is a pair of PCBs that form a > 'transformer' which > provide the Sin and Cos signals for the servo (like > the optical > transducer in an RK05). > > Somehow they got this servo to work... > > -tony __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Oct 31 09:29:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: [poss OT]: WTD: (UK) NTSC-to-PAL module or NTSC-capable monitor Message-ID: <003701c28029$7327d540$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi, I've just finished building a COSMAC Elf and I've hit a major stumbling block. The CDP1861 video chip outputs monochrome NTSC video. Unfortunately all the monitors I've got are PAL, VGA or SuperVGA. Soooo... Has anyone got an NTSC-to-PAL converter for sale (or can suggest a possible source)? Or maybe even a 5" to 9" NTSC-capable monochrome or colour monitor? If the latter, a vertical hold control would be useful, but not essential. I can get composite video (combined video+sync) or separate Csync/video (luminance) at 5V/0V CMOS level out of the 1861, whatever is needed. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Oct 31 09:35:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: In search of qbus WCS... References: <200210310524.AAA75071363@shell.TheWorld.com> <200210311434.JAA73227203@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3DC14E49.A95770DC@compsys.to> >Megan wrote: > Jerome, the WCS is a separate option which plugs into one of > the sockets normally occupied by a MICROM. The only other > -11 that I know of which had WCS was the 11/60. > > The specific option of which I speak is the KUV11-AA, a > quad-high qbus board which attaches to an 11/03 or 11/2. Jerome Fine replies: The two CPU boards (I have both) are the dual and the quad 11/03 Qbus versions. I have been told they require a BA-11 box since they are incompatible with the 22 bit backplane found in the BA23 box. Back in the latter part of the 1970s when the 11/03 was released, I understand that the 11/03 was far superior to anything from Intel. Even with just V3.0x of RT-11, users had a sophisticated operating system that was, in my opinion, better than any other single user OS at the time - and with all the improvements still is. I think I used one ONLY once since it is, of course, unable to address more than 56 KBytes (60 KBytes with a 2 KWord I/O page) of memory. Since I want at least 1 MByte of memory, I use at least an 11/23 and usually an 11/83 CPU and run RT11XM all the time. Of course, that is still a bit slow. Most of the time I use Ersatz-11 on a 750 MHz Pentium III, these days with 768 MBytes of memory. The speed is about 15 times an 11/93 - plus I can have a RAM: disk of 512 MBytes if I wish - 16 RT-11 partitions of 32 MBytes each. It should be even more interesting when the 3 GHz Pentium 4 is available at a reasonable price in a year or two - 50 times the speed of an 11/93 anyone? Even SIMH should fly at that point. It would be nice to have an M1 or a QED 11/93, but I can't justify that cost and those are still slower than Ersatz-11 with a 750 MHz Pentium III. I did not realize that the WCS (which I had heard was a feature on these 11/03 CPUs) was a separate option. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Oct 31 09:40:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: O-scopes: probes, tutorials Message-ID: <200210311541.g9VFfdg09195@io.crash.com> A couple weekends ago I finally made it to the Flea at MIT - only been meaning to go since 1989... Anyway I was looking for a vendor and wound up watching an exchange between a different vendor and this guy in a corduroy jacket. The short of it was, this vendor was desperate to not have to load all the Tek scopes he had back into the truck. Corduroy boy was balking, and the vendor only got more flustered when he was asked if the scope could be hooked up to a stereo to do something cool ;^) So I watched this play out. I'd been thinking I should pick up a scope, as I hope to start tinkering with hardware again sometime soon. But I was thinking about some simple dual trace 20-50 MHz unit... What I got for $100 was a Tek 7834 Storage Scope on a Model 3 cart. With the following 4 plugins: 7A22 differential Amplifier, 7A26 Dual Trace Amp, 7B85 Delaying Time Base, and 7B53N Dual Time Base. And upon getting it home it did, indeed seem to work. Of course I have no probes or manuals, but I got traces and labels and whatnot on the screen. Calibration? Who knows... Anyway, I was wondering what my options are for getting some probes for this beast. Things show up on eBay, and I'll keep an eye out there. There's a local shop that has Velleman probes tho I don't know for how much. Where do you go for probes? Also, anybody have a preferred instructional source, "Using O'scopes For Fun and Mayhem" perhaps? Thanks, --Steve. From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu Oct 31 09:42:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors Message-ID: <20021031154609.IRBV7225.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Tony Duell > Most of the I/O connectors are on the bottom... Okay, *bottom of the unit towards the rear* :>) > So far, so good. I assume you've identified the mains input as well. Yeah, that would be pretty hard to miss! > On the bottom are 4 connectors. The 2 neares the back of the machine are > on the CPU board and consist of the parallel printer port (34 pin, > towards the floppy drive side of the machine) and the I/O expansion bus > (50 pin). > > In front of the parallel port is another 34 pin edge connector, which is > part of the floppy controller card. It's for external floppy drives (You > can connect 2 more drives here, I think you set them as DS0 and DS1, and > you need to terminate the last drive on the cable). > > In front of the I/O bus is the DB25 RS232 port. > > > parallel port as a 34-pin card-edge connector (which I suppose needs a > > Tandy-specific cable to attach to a printer), but the problem is that there > > Yes, but it's an easy cable to make up. It's just a 34 pin edge connector > on one end of a piece of ribbon cable and a 36 pin Blue Ribbon > ('Centronics') plug on the other. Leave pins 18 and 36 on the BLue Ribbon > connector unconnected, match up the pin 1s of the 2 connectors. Then just > crimp the connectors onto the cable -- there are no twists or swaps to > worry about. Thanks for the information. I'll be poking around this critter more this weekend. Any gotchas I should know about? Later -- Glen 0/0 From daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Oct 31 09:46:01 2002 From: daw at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David A. Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype (Re: VCF5: Nobody got it..!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10/30/02, Sellam Ismail scribbled: > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, David A. Woyciesjes wrote: > > > You know, after seeing all these pictures, and hearing about it, I > > do hope VCF East ends up in the New England area... > > Well, if you want it to be in New England then you must SPEAK UP! ... > I think I'm on that mailing list already, but I'll have to sign up my other e-mail address, since I'm losing this one... (laid off) I have machines I could display, just have to figure out something neat for them to do... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From jim at jkearney.com Thu Oct 31 10:17:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: O-scopes: probes, tutorials References: <200210311541.g9VFfdg09195@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <00ef01c280f9$47099ea0$1001090a@xpace.net> > What I got for $100 was a Tek 7834 Storage Scope on a Model 3 > cart. With the following 4 plugins: 7A22 differential Amplifier, > 7A26 Dual Trace Amp, 7B85 Delaying Time Base, and 7B53N Dual Time I think I saw you dragging that down the sidewalk.... > Anyway, I was wondering what my options are for getting some > probes for this beast. Things show up on eBay, and I'll keep an > eye out there. There's a local shop that has Velleman probes tho > I don't know for how much. Where do you go for probes? Future-Active Electronics by the Cambridgeside Galleria sells the decent TPi probes; I think $27 for 20MHz and $39 for 100Mhz. If you buy them on eBay, make sure that you get the various accessories - ground leads, covers, grabber, etc., with them. > Also, anybody have a preferred instructional source, "Using > O'scopes For Fun and Mayhem" perhaps? There are some tutorials on Tektronix's website, I believe. From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Oct 31 10:45:00 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: The "universal Retro-computer replacement" Message-ID: <200210311645.LAA01176@wordstock.com> And thusly Jens =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sch=F6nfeld?= spake: > At 10:49 AM 10/31/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > >Am I correct in saying that the C1 now can "be" many other > >non-Commodore systems instead of a system with a native mode and just > >the C64 mode? > > Right. I'm really looking forward to playing Atari 2600 games on it, and to > turn it into my first machine ever, the Sinclair ZX-81. > > I visited Jeri and Courtney this summer in Miami, and only a day after I > left, Jeri wrote to me and said that she had produced a version that makes > the board a VIC-20. > > Although Jeri never really told the Schneider-CPC guys that she would help > them making a new machine (they announced it, but did not get her > permission), her board is now the "universal Retro-computer replacement". I > guess Schneider CPC is a fairly low priority, 'cause neither me, nor any of > my friends ever owned one, but it's possible. Just download a file from the > internet, write it to the CF card, plug it in and you have a new machine. > That's what "reconfigurable computer" is about. > > ciao, > -- > Jens Sch=F6nfeld From bob at jfcl.com Thu Oct 31 10:48:00 2002 From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: Build your own PDP-8! Message-ID: <02103108495037@jfcl.com> If you're one of those people who wants a PDP-8 but can't find one, don't despair - you can always build your own! The SBC6120 is a complete PDP-8 built around the venerable Harris HM6120 CPU and modern programmable logic devices. All parts used except the 6120 are contemporary, easily available devices. The entire system fits on a PC board 6.2" by 4.2" and has approximately the same footprint as a 3.5" hard disk. The SBC6120 has an IDE disk interface, an optional 2Mb non-volatile RAM disk (that's as big as an RK05!), and a true KL8/E compatible console terminal interface. OS/8 device handlers are available for the IDE and RAM disks, and the system will run standard OS/8 V3D. There's even an expansion bus so you can design and build your own daughter cards to plug into it. To find out more, visit the SBC6120 web page at http://www.SpareTimeGizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm I've recently had two requests to buy SBC6120 PC boards. These are four layer boards with plated holes and are quite expensive in quantity one or two, but the price falls per piece falls dramatically for quantities as small as four or six. I'd like to find a few other people who would be interested in building their own SBC6120 and going in together on a PCB order. The price for a SBC6120 PC board would be something like: Two boards ==> $100 per board Four " ==> $60 per board Six " ==> $45 per board Ten " ==> $36 per board I also have about four spare 6120 chips, which I'm willing to sell at my cost of $50 each. Believe it or not, it is still possible to buy new old stock 6120s, at $50 each, with a minimum order of ten (!!), but if enough people want SBC6120s we could always go this route. If you're interested, please write to me at bob@jfcl.com. Bob Armstrong From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Oct 31 10:54:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: O-scopes: probes, tutorials References: <200210311541.g9VFfdg09195@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <3DC16DB6.C4B2F09C@ccp.com> Steve Jones wrote: > > A couple weekends ago I finally made it to the Flea at MIT - only > been meaning to go since 1989... Anyway I was looking for a vendor > and wound up watching an exchange between a different vendor and > this guy in a corduroy jacket. The short of it was, this vendor was > desperate to not have to load all the Tek scopes he had back into > the truck. Corduroy boy was balking, and the vendor only got more > flustered when he was asked if the scope could be hooked up to a > stereo to do something cool ;^) I've seen quite a few like that, such as hams reluctant to pay $1 for a computer card because it may not work. Good for a laugh I guess. Hams nowdays want everything to work, and don't want to gamble or peek under the hood. > > Anyway, I was wondering what my options are for getting some > probes for this beast. Things show up on eBay, and I'll keep an > eye out there. There's a local shop that has Velleman probes tho > I don't know for how much. Where do you go for probes? I have found a nice assortment of probes from MP Jones Associates in Florida. www.mpja.com Tek probes at $100= per are4 getting a bit pricey for my frugal sensibilities. > > Also, anybody have a preferred instructional source, "Using > O'scopes For Fun and Mayhem" perhaps? Local library, vo-tech courses, etc. > > Thanks, > --Steve. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Oct 31 11:28:01 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: O-scopes: probes, tutorials Message-ID: <192.ff304e3.2af2c2b2@aol.com> Steve; I have a bunch of older Tektronix Probes from when I was buying surplus from Tek. Contact me offline at whoagiii@aol.com. It will help if you let me know what you are looking for. I would have replied directly but your reply was cctalk. Hope this helps, Paxton Astoria, Oregon From voyager at iols.net Thu Oct 31 11:44:01 2002 From: voyager at iols.net (Mark Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion In-Reply-To: <004001c27be5$6faf93a0$6501a8c0@attbi.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021031094301.021bc4c0@mail.iols.net> I've not had time to work on mine (work and personal commitments have overrun me somewhat); I have no experience with the internals of these machines yet (have not opened mine up fully, yet.) Going to be 4 months or more before I touch this machine, seems. Mark At 09:14 PM 10/24/02, you wrote: >Mark - > >Saw your note on classiccmp.org re the Dynalogic Hyperion. I have several >of these machines as well as some diagrams and parts lists for them. Two >of them have a problem in their video circuits such that their screens >show nothing nor is there a signal out of the external monitor RCA plug, >yet the computer will otherwise continue to function normally. I have been >looking for some guidance on how to track the fault down and fix it but >have so far had no success. Any thoughts? > >Regards > >Leo Butzel >lbutzel@attbi.com >Seattle, WA From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 31 12:10:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors In-Reply-To: <20021031154609.IRBV7225.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Thanks for the information. I'll be poking around this critter more this > weekend. Any gotchas I should know about? When you open it, be careful with the back end of the picture tube. From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Oct 31 13:48:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: 360K drives References: <200210302332.QAA01035@aztec2.asu.edu> <3DC07E87.510D1D10@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3DC18A1D.8050209@tiac.net> Oddly enough, I have a small, 2-drive chassis with a pair of 360K drives that had come off of someone's TI-99/4A. Where do they need to be? (currently in centeral MA) Gary Hildebrand wrote: >"DAVID L. ORMAND" wrote: > >>I'm trying to help some guys outfit TI-99/4As with 360K >>drives. A year or so ago, they were still available from >>some of the surplus dealers I know about, but they seem >>to have disappeared. >> >>Does anyone have a line on supplies of 360K drives? The >>only ones I find via web search are $25, which seems a >>bit much for a once-ubiquitous drive that is now a little >>obsolete. >> From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Oct 31 13:51:03 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0... References: <200210291647.LAA08248@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3DC18A9E.1090406@tiac.net> I'd vote for the same location as the first VCF East. Quite a few people in the area have collections, but were not aware of the event in time to exhibit their gear. With some advanced notice, I'm sure some of them would make an appearance next time around. From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Oct 31 13:57:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: Long vector Imlac's, was Re: Tales of VCF 5.0? References: Message-ID: <3DC18C14.3010506@tiac.net> Ok, the corosion of the PCB etches does not scare me, I've got a full set of spare boards. A few of them have bad chips, but in most cases these have already been isolated to the failed component. I've never seen the schematics for a long-vector Imlac, and I wonder how much work would be envolved in adding this capability to a 'stock' PDS-1. Does anyone (Tom U.) know what method the long vector hardware uses to generate long vectors? I'd guess this is done with binary rate multipliers in much the same way as the DEC VT-11. Just how much circuitry is on this long-vector board? How different is the vector processor circuitry on a PDS-1D versus a PDS-1? And ae we sure that Mazewar needs long vectors? Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > >>I'd be really interested in learning more about this! >> > >Here is a page about the Imlac I have (it was given to me by Doug Salot, >who developed this page): > >http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/imlac/ > >It doesn't say anything about the long-vector option, although I could've >swore he did (maybe it's there and I just didn't see it in my quick >refresh perusal). You can see the board in the upper-right corner of this >picture (or maybe it's the middle right?): > >http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/imlac/imlac6.jpg > >>Also, I've got lots of parts to get your PDS-1 in running order. >> > >Cool! > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Oct 31 14:00:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: more long vector Imlac stuff, was Re: Tales of VCF 5.0? References: Message-ID: <3DC18CB9.7090304@tiac.net> Sellam, The board in the center row, right-hand side is the TTY interface board. The long vector hardware is most probably that odd board added in the core memory section, top right in the picture. Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > >>I'd be really interested in learning more about this! >> > >Here is a page about the Imlac I have (it was given to me by Doug Salot, >who developed this page): > >http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/imlac/ > >It doesn't say anything about the long-vector option, although I could've >swore he did (maybe it's there and I just didn't see it in my quick >refresh perusal). You can see the board in the upper-right corner of this >picture (or maybe it's the middle right?): > >http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/imlac/imlac6.jpg > >>Also, I've got lots of parts to get your PDS-1 in running order. >> > >Cool! > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From msspcva at yahoo.com Thu Oct 31 14:16:00 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021031201837.25209.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> FWIW, if anyone needs technical specs on a TRS80 Model 4 (and I think III), I've got the original Radio Shack technical documentation binder. I could probably photocopy stuff out of it without causing too much heartburn in Ft Worth. -- Frank ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Oct 31 14:26:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: Looking for Symmetric 375 Message-ID: <200210312028.g9VKS6g09699@io.crash.com> > It's kind of an odd thing, but does anyone have a Symmetric 375 > box that they want to pass to a good home. Well, a while ago I was soliciting ns32k hardware of all sorts and while the Symmetric was mentioned as an example, no one was offering a unit for sale, trade, or otherwise. I don't recall anyone having production numbers, but "few" seems appropriate... Darned shame, it's a very fine looking box. I'd love to have one, as I'm sure would at least a few others. --Steve. PS - Thanks to all who responded to that earlier thread, esp. David Fellows and Al Kossow. From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Oct 31 14:37:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: <150191470069.20021031070741@subatomix.com> References: Message-ID: <3DC13F82.26209.16C356EE@localhost> Then it would be more correctly called VCF-South-West. Des Moines or Minneapolis, even Denver, would give us northerners a better chance to attend. Lawrence > On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, Bob Brown wrote: > > I'm still hoping for a VCF-midwest! > > I'd like to see one of those too someday. > > And if we ever have one, well, I know of ClassicCmpers in Kansas, Missouri, and > Texas, so Oklahoma (my location) seems a natural choice. :-) Maybe I could > convince David Boren to give us some cheap convention space at the University of > Oklahoma. I would exhibit. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Oct 31 14:49:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0... Message-ID: <200210312050.g9VKoUg09743@io.crash.com> [ I can't seem to reach the nameservers for vintage.org, but this ] [ could just be me since no one else's complaining... ] I don't care where it is on the East Coast, though the closer to Boston the more likely I am to exhibit my few paltry items. Suddenly much more likely thanks to the acquisition of an older Honda Passport SUV... This'd be an incentive to get the VAX-11/730 running again. That'd make a nice, compact display if I don't kill myself trying to move it. Or if I could squeeze more than 2MB in along with a UDA50 and tape controller... I know, I know, it isn't as interesting as the pdp-11/40, but all I have of that is the front panel with some TTL that uses the address bit LEDs as a binary counter. (And no, I did _not_ butcher the machine, I found it that way.) Hey, if I also finish cobbling together my pdp-11/73 in a BA123 box I can show how much faster _and_ lighter it is than the 730... >^) --Steve. From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Oct 31 14:52:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: Long vector Imlac's, was Re: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <3DC18C14.3010506@tiac.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021031141337.01ae0fd8@ubanproductions.com> At 03:01 PM 10/31/2002 -0500, Bob Shannon wrote: >Ok, the corosion of the PCB etches does not scare me, I've got a full set >of spare boards. A few of them have bad chips, but in most cases these >have already been isolated to the failed component. > >I've never seen the schematics for a long-vector Imlac, and I wonder how >much work would be envolved in adding this capability to a 'stock' PDS-1. A partial set of PDS-1D schematics (and other documentation) are available here: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/imlac/ I say partial, because they don't contain the pages for the long vector option, which appear on sheets 853 and 854 and comprise boards 301, 302, and 303 of the PDS-1D. >Does anyone (Tom U.) know what method the long vector hardware uses to >generate long vectors? I'd guess this is done with binary rate >multipliers in much the same way as the DEC VT-11. Yes. I think that you are correct in assuming that the long vector control is built around a BRM. Without some extensive research and comparison between the PDS-1 and PDS-1D schematics, I cannot estimate how much additional hook logic is required on other boards in order to support the addition of the long vector option. >Just how much circuitry is on this long-vector board? How different is >the vector processor circuitry on a PDS-1D versus a PDS-1? > >And ae we sure that Mazewar needs long vectors? As quoted from the Mazewar source: ; THIS VERSION REQUIRES A GRAPHICS IMLAC WITH LONG VECTOR HARDWARE ; MULTI-LEVEL SUBROUTINING, AND 8K DISPLAY ADDRESSING MOD. I think that the 8K display addressing assumes an 8K machine, so Bob needs to get the other 4k of memory working on his machine before working on the 8K display addressing mod. The comment also indicates that the Multi-nested Display Subroutine feature is required. This is the 8 Level DT register stack option, which if it were present in the document on Al's site would be on sheet 858 (board 304) for the PDS-1D. I have all of these prints, but when I made the copy for Al, I made it from an incomplete set which did not include these options. I will put together the missing pages and send them to Al for scanning... Again, without some research, I don't know the level of difficulty and support by other boards to allow the addition of the 8 Level DT stack option. If these options were to be added to Bob's machine, there might be a question of space in which to plug the additional hardware. It is less of a question of the density of the logic and more one of connector pin count. Also, I'm not sure that Bob want's to modify his machine to this extent. It should be noted that Sellam has both a PDS-1 and a PDS-1D in his collection (or at least I think that this is the case -- further pictures of his two machines would confirm or deny this). --tom >Sellam Ismail wrote: > >>On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: >> >>>I'd be really interested in learning more about this! >> >>Here is a page about the Imlac I have (it was given to me by Doug Salot, >>who developed this page): >> >>http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/imlac/ >> >>It doesn't say anything about the long-vector option, although I could've >>swore he did (maybe it's there and I just didn't see it in my quick >>refresh perusal). You can see the board in the upper-right corner of this >>picture (or maybe it's the middle right?): >> >>http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/imlac/imlac6.jpg >> >>>Also, I've got lots of parts to get your PDS-1 in running order. >> >>Cool! >> >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >>Festival >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>International Man of Intrigue and >>Danger http://www.vintage.org >> >>* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * >> > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 31 14:58:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Firstly, _can_ I get to it. I'd want to bring some toys along, so it > would have to be somewhere not too remote. If it's in the North of > Scotland, then I couldn't get there... Find someone with a car who will tolerate giving you a ride. > Secondly, who is organising/running it. I make no secret of the fact that > there are people I don't get on with, and I wouldn't want to spoil such > an event for everone by having a flamefest. Check your attitude at the door. It's all about fun! > But in principle, yes I'd come. And I'd offer a presentation on one of my > machines (to be decided, but it would be obscure enough not to win > anything :-)). We'll give you a special award for coming out of the house ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From at258 at osfn.org Thu Oct 31 15:18:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh-Oh, Tony, it looks like Sellam has already selected the venue, and it's Lybster. On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Firstly, _can_ I get to it. I'd want to bring some toys along, so it > > would have to be somewhere not too remote. If it's in the North of > > Scotland, then I couldn't get there... > > Find someone with a car who will tolerate giving you a ride. > > > Secondly, who is organising/running it. I make no secret of the fact that > > there are people I don't get on with, and I wouldn't want to spoil such > > an event for everone by having a flamefest. > > Check your attitude at the door. It's all about fun! > > > But in principle, yes I'd come. And I'd offer a presentation on one of my > > machines (to be decided, but it would be obscure enough not to win > > anything :-)). > > We'll give you a special award for coming out of the house ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From foo at siconic.com Thu Oct 31 15:20:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, Bob Brown wrote: > > > I'm still hoping for a VCF-midwest! > > > > I'd like to see one of those too someday. > > > > And if we ever have one, well, I know of ClassicCmpers in Kansas, Missouri, > > and Texas, so Oklahoma (my location) seems a natural choice. :-) Maybe I > > could convince David Boren to give us some cheap convention space at the > > University of Oklahoma. I would exhibit. > > And I could probably present the same type of service here at Purdue > (thanks to being an officer of a student orginization)... Anyone who wants to produce a VCF Midwest should contact me. So far, John Keys as expressed a long time interest in doing so. Perhaps someone could team up with John and help get it going. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tim at tim-mann.org Thu Oct 31 15:49:45 2002 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: Tools for analyzing MFM diskettes Message-ID: <20021031004720.38955275.tim@tim-mann.org> J.C. Wren writes: > Anyone messed with a Cat Weasel? > http://www.jschoenfeld.de/products/cwmk3_e.htm Yes. See http://tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html#catweasel for software I've written to read and write some odd disk formats with a Catweasel. -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From tim at tim-mann.org Thu Oct 31 15:51:46 2002 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: Tools for analyzing MFM diskettes Message-ID: <20021031101933.6c294b1a.tim@tim-mann.org> J.C. Wren writes: > Anyone messed with a Cat Weasel? > http://www.jschoenfeld.de/products/cwmk3_e.htm Yes. See http://tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html#catweasel for software I've written to read and write some odd disk formats with a Catweasel. -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Oct 31 15:52:47 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021031153441.01aeb3e8@ubanproductions.com> At 09:49 AM 10/31/2002 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > > > On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, Bob Brown wrote: > > > > I'm still hoping for a VCF-midwest! > > > > > > I'd like to see one of those too someday. > > > > > > And if we ever have one, well, I know of ClassicCmpers in Kansas, > Missouri, > > > and Texas, so Oklahoma (my location) seems a natural choice. :-) Maybe I > > > could convince David Boren to give us some cheap convention space at the > > > University of Oklahoma. I would exhibit. > > > > And I could probably present the same type of service here at Purdue > > (thanks to being an officer of a student orginization)... > >Anyone who wants to produce a VCF Midwest should contact me. So far, John >Keys as expressed a long time interest in doing so. Perhaps someone could >team up with John and help get it going. Ahh, so the midwest would be a pretty large expanse. I am near Chicago, which we all consider the midwest, but then there are still 3000 miles to the left of us and 1000 miles to the right. I drove to VCF East 1.0 with my Imlac and would probably do so again the next time it is in the Boston area. Not that I don't want a midwest VCF, but unless it were near Chicago, I am content with the Boston location as I have numerous friends there and like the area in general. --tom >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 31 15:53:48 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: In search of qbus WCS... In-Reply-To: <3DC13641.FD1C5E0C@compsys.to> References: <200210310524.AAA75071363@shell.TheWorld.com> <3DC13641.FD1C5E0C@compsys.to> Message-ID: <4101.4.20.168.123.1036100720.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Jerome Fine replies: > > I probably do have both the dual and quad 11/03 CPU > boards. Do they have the WCS? I seem to remember > that the 11/44 also has the WCS? But since you did not > mention which CPU modules have the WCS, it might > help others who do have a WCS CPU. No PDP-11 had WCS as a standard feature. WCS options were available for the 11/03 (LSI-11) and 11/60. The 11/03 version is the KUV11, M8018. It's a quad-height module. The KUV11 needs to be cabled to a specific MICROM socket on the M7264 module; it will not work on the half-height LSI-11/2 module (M7270). The KUV11 can be loaded with the EIS/FIS microcode (equivalent to the KEV11 MICROM), with 512 words left over for user microcode. Or you can use all 1024 words for user microcode, subject to some restrictions. If you have the single-hybrid-chip version of the KEV11, you can use it with the KUV11, and strap the latter to only respond to the last 512 words of the microcode address space. The 11/60 version is the KU116, M7870. I'm looking for one of these. There was a third-party WCS option for the PDP-11/45; there may have been third-party WCS options for other models. > I think one board has all 5 chips. I suspect that means it > has the EIS/FIP chip? It has the two-chip version of the option, so there is no socket left for the WCS. You'd have to remove the KEV11 chips to use the WCS. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 31 15:55:02 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: LSI-11 WCS and MICROMs Message-ID: <1047.4.20.168.123.1036101068.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I just realized that my reply to Jerome's inquiry about the LSI-11 module with five chips was probably wrong. IIRC, the LSI-11 chip set consists of the control chip, data chip, and two MICROMs for the base instruction set. The EIS/FIS (KEV11) is a single additional MICROM. So the original quad-height LSI-11 module would have four 40-pin chips without the EIS/FIS, or five with. Was it the LSI-11/2 half-height module that sometimes used a hybrid with two MICROMs? If so, it was probably the two microms that implemented the standard instruction set, in order to leave a socket open for the KEV11. On the 11/23 and 11/24, some of the chips were also on dual-chip hybrids. Eric From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Oct 31 16:03:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: VCF East ? [was:Re: VCF5] In-Reply-To: <3DC13F82.26209.16C356EE@localhost> References: <150191470069.20021031070741@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021031165918.027c7078@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Lawrence Walker may have mentioned these words: > Then it would be more correctly called VCF-South-West. Des Moines or >Minneapolis, even Denver, would give us northerners a better chance to attend. I might be able to do Minneapolis (it's about an 8-10 hour drive for me, depending on traffic & weather) -- Des Moines might be a stretch... Green Bay or closer (it's a 4-hour drive) I might be able to volunteer for & help in a "close-by but not needed every weekend" type of capacity... Otherwise, if anyone needs webspace with coldfusion / PHP / PostgreSQL abilities and/or free mailboxes / listserv abilities to help organize one of these things, lemme know... It can't be *super-huge* bandwidth (I have 3 Mbit to the backbone, hopefully going to 4.5 before the end of the year), but otherwise I'll be happy to help... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Oct 31 16:12:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: In search of qbus WCS... In-Reply-To: <4101.4.20.168.123.1036100720.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3DC13641.FD1C5E0C@compsys.to> <200210310524.AAA75071363@shell.TheWorld.com> <3DC13641.FD1C5E0C@compsys.to> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021031161015.01b78b70@ubanproductions.com> Hi Eric, I'm not sure how badly you want a M7870 board, but this fellow has been able to locate some fairly rare parts for me at times. Charle Burgess QEI Incorporated 119 Great Road Bedford, MA 01730 --tom At 01:45 PM 10/31/2002 -0800, you wrote: > > Jerome Fine replies: > > > > I probably do have both the dual and quad 11/03 CPU > > boards. Do they have the WCS? I seem to remember > > that the 11/44 also has the WCS? But since you did not > > mention which CPU modules have the WCS, it might > > help others who do have a WCS CPU. > >No PDP-11 had WCS as a standard feature. WCS options were >available for the 11/03 (LSI-11) and 11/60. > >The 11/03 version is the KUV11, M8018. It's a quad-height module. > >The KUV11 needs to be cabled to a specific MICROM socket on the M7264 >module; it will not work on the half-height LSI-11/2 module (M7270). >The KUV11 can be loaded with the EIS/FIS microcode (equivalent to the >KEV11 MICROM), with 512 words left over for user microcode. Or you can >use all 1024 words for user microcode, subject to some restrictions. >If you have the single-hybrid-chip version of the KEV11, you can use >it with the KUV11, and strap the latter to only respond to the last >512 words of the microcode address space. > >The 11/60 version is the KU116, M7870. I'm looking for one of these. > >There was a third-party WCS option for the PDP-11/45; there may have >been third-party WCS options for other models. > > > I think one board has all 5 chips. I suspect that means it > > has the EIS/FIP chip? > >It has the two-chip version of the option, so there is no socket left >for the WCS. You'd have to remove the KEV11 chips to use the WCS. > >Eric From allain at panix.com Thu Oct 31 16:57:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. References: <200210311645.LAA01176@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <002701c28131$20426d00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Hi, I just saw another post from someone mentioning a layoff (my Best Wishes to you too) and I thought it worth while speaking up on this. Let's face it, unless you're in with the GOV in some special way, it is probably Not good to specialize in obsoletecomp for all of your computing. So I'm looking for what you out there have voted for as your programming environments (for those of you who program, probably over 50+ACU-). I have been looking at MS Visual Studio for some time and NOT buying mainly because it seems like there is no choice in the matter. Where are the other good prog. environments? The ad for MS VStudio shows a guy with serious posture problems (get it? No backbone.) and I'm not too ready for that experience. Sun/Solaris/Intel has been phased out. Phillippe is sleeping with the starfishes. I guess that leaves only something for Linux. Your votes, please. John A. From allain at panix.com Thu Oct 31 17:17:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: O-scopes: probes, tutorials References: <200210311541.g9VFfdg09195@io.crash.com> <3DC16DB6.C4B2F09C@ccp.com> Message-ID: <00b801c28133$e4848340$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> ... Corduroy boy was balking, and the vendor only >> got more flustered... > I've seen quite a few like that, such as hams reluctant > to pay $1 for a computer card because it may not work. > Good for a laugh I guess. I actually passed through that phase a few years ago. Get a great deal once or twice and you get 'wratcheted up' to the point where you expect everything for free or nearly so. That's a reflex that you have to unlearn or replace with something better. John A. From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Oct 31 17:20:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: LSI-11 WCS and MICROMs Message-ID: <200210312321.SAA73958569@shell.TheWorld.com> >I just realized that my reply to Jerome's inquiry about the >LSI-11 module with five chips was probably wrong. IIRC, the >LSI-11 chip set consists of the control chip, data chip, and >two MICROMs for the base instruction set. The EIS/FIS (KEV11) >is a single additional MICROM. So the original quad-height >LSI-11 module would have four 40-pin chips without the EIS/FIS, >or five with. Correct... and with 5 sockets, there would be one left over for either the EIS/FIS option or WCS, not both. >Was it the LSI-11/2 half-height module that sometimes used >a hybrid with two MICROMs? If so, it was probably the two >microms that implemented the standard instruction set, in >order to leave a socket open for the KEV11. Actually, I've seen the dual microm used on both 11/03s and on 11/2s, as well as on the PDT (I have a couple of those which have been so modified). The 3007/3010 chips are combined into one dual microm. This would allow boards with only 4 sockets (like the PDT) to add EIS/FIS. >On the 11/23 and 11/24, some of the chips were also on dual-chip >hybrids. The FPU chip for the 11/23,24 was a dual carrier chip. The CIS option was a hex-carrier chip. It had 6 of those small gold chips on it, and spanned two sockets of the 11/23[+] board. I don't know if it could go on the 11/24. (I have a KDF11-B with one of these chips on it). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rwittig at chicago.us.mensa.org Thu Oct 31 17:21:01 2002 From: rwittig at chicago.us.mensa.org (Robert C Wittig) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: Best programming suite recommendations. References: +ADw-200210311645.LAA01176+AEA-wordstock.com+AD4- +ADw-002701c28131+ACQ-20426d00+ACQ-21fe54a6+AEA-ibm23xhr06+AD4- Message-ID: <002101c28134$72acb980$9933fea9@home> +AD4- So I'm looking for what you out there have voted for as +AD4- your programming environments (for those of you who +AD4- program, probably over 50+ACU-). MS Visual Studio 6.0 C+-+- MS QuickBasic 4.5 MS QuickC 2.0 DOS PowerBasic 3.0 (? not sure of ver) Borland C 2.0 DOS Borland C+-+- 3.0 DOS Lattice C DOS +ACo-nix cc +ACo-nix gcc with Code Fusion IDE scripting... Perl PHP sh shell bash shell -wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/ A business is as honest as its advertisements. . From ian_primus at yahoo.com Thu Oct 31 17:24:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: halloween thoughts Message-ID: <570D5CF6-ED27-11D6-B3F7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Being that it is halloween, I got some candy to pass out to trick or treaters. I also thought that it might be an opportunity to clean out my junk heap... "Trick or treat!" "Here you are, there's one for you, one for you, and one for you" "But what am I going to do with a 2400 bps modem?" "I don't want a broken disk drive!" "Can't we have some candy?" "Sure, if you take this broken monitor..." Ok, maybe not. How about drawing eyes and a mouth on a broken monitor... a Jack-o-CRT? Or maybe I could try giving away AOL CD's... Computer parts go pretty well with other holidays, broken 30 pin SIMM's make pretty good Christmas ornaments, and as a tech I knew once said, it's a good idea to keep a stack of greenbar around so that on Saint Patrick's day, so that you can go someplace to drink... a green bar. Sorry, I couldn't help posting this (retreats into corner). Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 31 17:26:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:33 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. Message-ID: > I have been looking at MS Visual Studio for some time and > NOT buying mainly because it seems like there is no choice > in the matter. Where are the other good prog. environments? > The ad for MS VStudio shows a guy with serious posture > problems (get it? No backbone.) and I'm not too ready for > that experience. Sun/Solaris/Intel has been phased out. > Phillippe is sleeping with the starfishes. > I guess that leaves only something for Linux. Well... its for the Mac, but can do Win32 as well... I use REALbasic. Think of it as a Mac version of MS Visual Basic, without the MS attachments. You write everything on the Mac, and it will compile for Mac PPC (Classic and Carbon), and Win32. (The v5 due out some time next year will have a Windows IDE so you can write on Win and compile for all 3 like you can currently do on the Mac). They claim future versions will be able to compile for Linux and PalmOS as well. All in all, it isn't a bad getup. -chris From ian_primus at yahoo.com Thu Oct 31 17:26:57 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: halloween thoughts Message-ID: <47229BD6-ED28-11D6-B3F7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Being that it is halloween, I got some candy to pass out to trick or treaters. I also thought that it might be an opportunity to clean out my junk heap... "Trick or treat!" "Here you are, there's one for you, one for you, and one for you" "But what am I going to do with a 2400 bps modem?" "I don't want a broken disk drive!" "Can't we have some candy?" "Sure, if you take this broken monitor..." Ok, maybe not. How about drawing eyes and a mouth on a broken monitor... a Jack-o-CRT? Or maybe I could try giving away AOL CD's... Computer parts go pretty well with other holidays, broken 30 pin SIMM's make pretty good Christmas ornaments, and as a tech I knew once said, it's a good idea to keep a stack of greenbar around so that on Saint Patrick's day, so that you can go someplace to drink... a green bar. Sorry, I couldn't help posting this (retreats into corner). Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 31 17:37:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: halloween thoughts Message-ID: >Ok, maybe not. How about drawing eyes and a mouth on a broken >monitor... a Jack-o-CRT? Jack-o-CRT? Humm... maybe my wife should have made one of those last night. Instead she spent 3 hours carving a really nice ornate design into a pumpkin... to come home this afternoon and find that a rabbit ate the entire front out... now it is just an orange ball with a giant hole in the middle. Needless to say... I'm staying at work EXTRA late today... I'm not going home till she's a tad less pissed off. -chris From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu Oct 31 18:24:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors Message-ID: <20021101002807.GLVK4128.imf38bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > When you open it, be careful with the back end of the picture tube. I had it open when I was working on the drives, and actually managed to get it reassembled without inflicting any damage -- to the system or myself! ;>) Glen 0/0 From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Oct 31 18:26:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: halloween thoughts In-Reply-To: Sark's message of "Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:20:27 -0500" References: <570D5CF6-ED27-11D6-B3F7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200211010004.gA104Dww004518@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sark wrote: > Being that it is halloween, I got some candy to pass out to trick or > treaters. I also thought that it might be an opportunity to clean out > my junk heap... Didn't y'all catch FoxTrot in this morning's funnies? , only good for two weeks, and it probably works better with one of those gooey browsers. Wish I'd seen it before I got dressed, I'd have worn my ActiveX t-shirt to the office. Hey, it's the scariest piece of clothing I own. -Frank McConnell From emu at ecubics.com Thu Oct 31 18:27:02 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: vt-240 Message-ID: <3DC1CB59.70607@ecubics.com> Hi, Cleaning my vt-240, I noticed that there is an "expansion" connector inside, with enough space for a pretty big board. Anybody out there has an idea what it was for ? Documentation ? cheers From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 31 18:37:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: [poss OT]: WTD: (UK) NTSC-to-PAL module or NTSC-capable monitor In-Reply-To: <003701c28029$7327d540$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Oct 30, 2 03:31:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 628 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021031/59b6ba97/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 31 18:38:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Oct 31, 2 09:41:29 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 970 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021031/976b901c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 31 18:39:04 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: O-scopes: probes, tutorials In-Reply-To: <200210311541.g9VFfdg09195@io.crash.com> from "Steve Jones" at Oct 31, 2 10:42:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2139 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021031/889cdea5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 31 18:40:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors In-Reply-To: <20021031154609.IRBV7225.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Oct 31, 2 10:43:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 863 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021031/b9b1fb45/attachment.ksh From ian_primus at yahoo.com Thu Oct 31 19:37:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: Hazeltine 1421 - anyone heard of it? Message-ID: I just got a Hazeltine 1421 terminal. When I first got it, It showed nothing but garbage on the screen, then I took it apart and cleaned everything, reseated chips and cleaned their pins. I fired it up again and it worked perfectly, save for the keyboard jamming on some keys. I cleaned the keyboard completely, and was able to fix most of the problems, except the keyboard is missing the "-" keytop, the "T" key jams occasionally, "E" is erratic and "J" is really gouged and bent, and falls off easy (looks like someone dropped something heavy on the keyboard). All in all, save for the keyboard, it's in very good shape. The question that I have is wether anyone has heard of or seen a Hazeltiine 1421. I haven't been able to find anything on the internet, but I did find the Hazeltine 1420 manual on vt100.net. Linux doesn't seem to have an entry for the 1421, but it does have one for the 1420. Inside the access panel is a switch labelled "1420" and "Other". I have tried it on "1420", and told Linux that it is a 1420. It is barely useable. No programs will display properly, things like pico and pine get really screwed up, not clearing the text from the screen when they write the next screen, etc, even screen seems to do funny things to it, sometimes after exiting programs or typing "clear" the prompt appears in the middle of the screen. I am guessing this is either due to the termcap or terminfo(what's the difference, I always forget?) entry, the settings on my terminal, or maybe the programs I am trying to use aren't meant to deal with a Hazeltine terminal. I would appreciate any information anyone has on this terminal. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Oct 31 19:39:00 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: Repairing devices In-Reply-To: <200210302206.OAA03832@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20021101013944.KAMX12466.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > I know this doesn't make sense at first but it is most likely > that the failure is in the HeNe tube and not the power supply. > The general failure starts with the lasing pulsing at slower > and slower rates until it stops working. > The problem is caused by the He leaking out of the tube. > I know you'd say, how can that happen when inside the tube > is a partial vacuum. Well, it has to do with partial pressures. > The partial pressure of He is lower out side of the tube than > inside, so it leaks out. It is also related to the slipperiness > of He. It leaks through everything, including glass. > Try another tube that is known to be good. > Dwight > He is atom weight (that's old style bec I was taught this 14 years ago), of 2 (I think) so it is MUCH lighter than everything except H and will float out on top of everything too. Hence used in balloons. Also He is noble means it doens't react to anything because their electron layer is filled, only two electrons orbiting core made up of two photons, two neutons. Utter stable except to split it with energy knocking them apart (fission). H reacts to oxiziders becuase oxidizers has electron holes availble shell that can share more electrons with another different type of atoms: for example. Burn H and O2 you get water and heat. Knowing the basic rules of electron shells of given atoms and you can mentally "build" elements. H20 is element, water. Cheers, Wizard From rwittig at chicago.us.mensa.org Thu Oct 31 19:39:57 2002 From: rwittig at chicago.us.mensa.org (Robert C Wittig) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. References: Message-ID: <004301c28147$bc4fc240$9933fea9@home> > Well... its for the Mac, but can do Win32 as well... I use REALbasic. > Think of it as a Mac version of MS Visual Basic, without the MS > attachments. There's TrueBASIC, too, by Kemeny and Kurtz, the guys who first wrote BASIC in 1964. The company is still selling up-to-date packages that are dual compatible... Mac/ DOS and Mac/ Win 3/95/98. http://www.truebasic.com/ I would guess that what makes a particular language good, is how well adapted it is to what you are trying to do. What makes a good IDE might depend more on how big the project is. -wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/ A business is as honest as its advertisements. . From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Oct 31 19:41:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Check your attitude at the door. It's all about fun! > > Easy to say, much harder for me to do. As I said, I would not want to > ruin the VCF-UK by having a flamewar, so the simplest thing to do would > be to keep away. Still, we'll see... I'm imagining Tony showing up in an full body asbestos suit wielding a flame thrower, cackling maniacally with gleeful laughter as he unleashes fiery death upon the masses. I can see why he'd have reservations about attending if the above is a likely scenario; but frankly, I'd really not have figured him as the type to engage in this sort of grossly destructive behavior. No, I'm sure it's only my imagination running wild after having spend one too many years in Hollywood. The worst I'd expect from the honorable Mr. Duell is that he'd skewer someone for recklessly powering up vintage kit before properly checking its power supply by plunging his multimeter probes into the miscreant's chest... And rightly so! -brian. From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Oct 31 19:43:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: Best programming suite recommendations. In-Reply-To: <002701c28131$20426d00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001501c28148$a9313d00$023ca8c0@blafleur> > Your votes, please. I'm not usually one to be sold on Microsoft hype, but I am quite impressed with Visual Studio .NET; it has a few rough edges that need to be cleaned up in the next service release or version, but it is a vast and huge improvement over their previous Visual Studio products (esp. Visual Basic). Of course, if your anti-Windows then you won't want it. But if you put your feelings aside and want to learn a tool that will be most useful in the job market, I think VS.NET is a good one to know. - Bob Lafleur (programmer for 25+ years) From rwittig at chicago.us.mensa.org Thu Oct 31 19:52:01 2002 From: rwittig at chicago.us.mensa.org (Robert C Wittig) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: Best programming suite recommendations. References: <001501c28148$a9313d00$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <006201c28149$99a94c00$9933fea9@home> > I'm not usually one to be sold on Microsoft hype, but I am quite > impressed with Visual Studio .NET; it has a few rough edges that need to > be cleaned up in the next service release or version, but it is a vast > and huge improvement over their previous Visual Studio products (esp. > Visual Basic). Of course, if your anti-Windows then you won't want it. > But if you put your feelings aside and want to learn a tool that will be > most useful in the job market, I think VS.NET is a good one to know. Heh. I'm a little anti-XP... but not anti-Windows per se. I'm holding at Visual Studio 6 because I can't afford the upgrade to .NET. -wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/ A business is as honest as its advertisements. . From allain at panix.com Thu Oct 31 20:34:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: Best programming suite recommendations. References: <001501c28148$a9313d00$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <005901c2814f$81887b40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > if you put your feelings aside and want to learn a tool that > will be most useful in the job market, I think VS.NET is a > good one to know. What I am trolling for is people who have bought into it and have been burned. I used v4 and v5 and had mildly positive experiences, but was disappointed with them overall. example: ask for a help lookup on an overloaded function on compiled and linked (read: external references resolved) code. The help system listed all the operation loadings and had you pick one, dummmm. > if your anti-Windows then you won't want it. Pro-quality, mainly. John A. From allain at panix.com Thu Oct 31 20:37:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. References: <004301c28147$bc4fc240$9933fea9@home> Message-ID: <001b01c2814f$e8d26fe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- I would guess that what makes a particular language good, +AD4- is how well adapted it is to what you are trying to do. My preferences are: Networking, 2D+ACY-3D Graphics, synthetic data structures, file ops, GUI's, in that order. +AD4- What makes a good IDE might depend more on how big the +AD4- project is. I've done a couple of over 10Kline systems+ACo-. EG: OpenDX http://linux.tucows.com/mmedia/preview/9436.html John A. +ACo- +ACI-Data Explorer, from the IBM +AF8-Deep Computing Institute+AF8AIg- http://oss.software.ibm.com/developer/opensource/osscommitment.html Wish they had used that name while we were still there. From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Oct 31 20:55:01 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: Best programming suite recommendations. In-Reply-To: <005901c2814f$81887b40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001b01c28152$c23a57a0$023ca8c0@blafleur> I used VS5 a lot, but refused to move to VS6 because Microsoft had some bugs in VS5 that weren't fixed in 6, and they wouldn't even acknowledge they were bugs and document them in their knowledge base... They could easily be reproduced with a 12-step process. So out of principle, I wouldn't use VS6. Also, VS6 had some pretty major problems of it's own in it's early versions. VS.NET is a whole new animal. Therefore, the initial versions (even though there were many betas) will still have some flaws. But Microsoft has .NET as a long-term strategy, and they've thrown a lot of the old stuff away to pave the way for new technology. VS.NET is one of the best new things I've seen in quite a while. I would *not* consider myself burned with VS.NET. I would have felt that way with VS6 if it had been my money that purchased it. There are plenty of books on VS.NET out now. If you're not quite sure, get a book and read it before investing in the software. Also, you can get the .NET SDK which includes all the runtime, plus the compilers for free. You just don't get the fancy IDE, but you can write and compile any .NET code you want with just the SDK. I was a little overwhelmed with the VS.NET IDE at first. But I'm quickly becoming very comfortable with it. I really like the popups that happen while you're typing in code, so you know what your options are at every step of the way. (Sometimes there's a few too many popups, but I guess more is better than not enough). If you have something specific you want to know, or want me to try and see how it is handled, let me know (off-list, preferrably) and I'll do what I can to help answer any questions you might have. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Allain Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 9:37 PM To: CCTalk Subject: Re: Best programming suite recommendations. > if you put your feelings aside and want to learn a tool that will be > most useful in the job market, I think VS.NET is a good one to know. What I am trolling for is people who have bought into it and have been burned. I used v4 and v5 and had mildly positive experiences, but was disappointed with them overall. example: ask for a help lookup on an overloaded function on compiled and linked (read: external references resolved) code. The help system listed all the operation loadings and had you pick one, dummmm. > if your anti-Windows then you won't want it. Pro-quality, mainly. John A. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 31 21:01:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: Was this Altair one of US ? Message-ID: <019801c28153$273998f0$7d010240@oemcomputer> It went for $2105.88 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=206440363 3 From jingber at ix.netcom.com Thu Oct 31 21:08:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: Was this Altair one of US ? In-Reply-To: <019801c28153$273998f0$7d010240@oemcomputer> References: <019801c28153$273998f0$7d010240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <1036120161.13467.12.camel@supermicro> *Insanity* On Thu, 2002-10-31 at 22:02, Keys wrote: > It went for $2105.88 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=206440363 > 3 > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 31 22:00:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: vt-240 In-Reply-To: <3DC1CB59.70607@ecubics.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Cleaning my vt-240, I noticed that there is an "expansion" connector > inside, with enough space for a pretty big board. > Anybody out there has an idea what it was for ? > Documentation ? What kind of connector does Documentation have? From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 31 22:12:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm imagining Tony showing up in an full body asbestos suit wielding a A more likely difficulty is that he would need several cubic yards more space for the ride home than for the ride there. From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Oct 31 22:13:21 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: Repairing devices Message-ID: <200211010414.XAA75206101@shell.TheWorld.com> >electron layer is filled, only two electrons orbiting core made up >of two photons, two neutons. Utter stable except to split it with >energy knocking them apart (fission). That's two *protons*... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 31 22:28:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: Terminal expansion (was: vt-240 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Cleaning my vt-240, I noticed that there is an "expansion" connector > inside, with enough space for a pretty big board. My VT100 has what seems to be an add-in board that has RGB BNCs. I know so little about them that I don't even know whether those are intended to be input or output. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From n4fs at monmouth.com Thu Oct 31 22:49:01 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: Repairing devices References: <200211010414.XAA75206101@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <009e01c2815f$588b5e00$086dbd18@n4fs> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan" To: Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:14 PM Subject: Re: Repairing devices > >electron layer is filled, only two electrons orbiting core made up > >of two photons, two neutons. Utter stable except to split it with > >energy knocking them apart (fission). > > That's two *protons*... Well then, the other two must be "neutrons". Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Oct 31 22:52:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: Terminal expansion (was: vt-240 In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at Oct 31, 2002 08:30:08 PM Message-ID: <200211010453.gA14rxb26352@shell1.aracnet.com> Fred Cisin wrote: > On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > Cleaning my vt-240, I noticed that there is an "expansion" connector > > inside, with enough space for a pretty big board. > > My VT100 has what seems to be an add-in board that has RGB BNCs. I know > so little about them that I don't even know whether those are intended to > be input or output. I'd recommend you both point your browsers at http://www.vt100.net/ as it has VT100 manuals and a couple of VT240 pocket guides. Zane From loedman1 at juno.com Thu Oct 31 23:12:00 2002 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: What is it ? Message-ID: <20021031.211048.-130081.0.loedman1@juno.com> I recently acquired a rather aged Compaq "portable" that defies identification, the plate says Model: Compaq, Serial number: 002027. Size is 19 1/2 wide, 15 1/2 deep, 9 1/4 high with a 8 in "green screen".On the right side to the rear is a sliding cover over 5 slots, 3 filled, the left side slides open to expose the fan and switch and provides power cord storage. It has two 5 1/4 360k drives. The keyboard locks over the front for transport and it has a leather carrying handle on the back. Can anyone provide me any info on this machine Am also looking for info on a Kaypro 16, Dos machine Thanks, Rich From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Oct 31 23:38:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: What is it ? Message-ID: <85.2379af3c.2af36dcc@aol.com> Sounds like the original Compaq portable, one of the computers that "made" Compaq. The Compaq Portable II usually said that, it was a bit smaller and had 1.2 floppies. All the others are smaller. Does it have a hardcard installed in one of those slots? Does it boot? Paxton Astoria, Oregon